to wanna tell my friend - WAKE UP. HE DOES NOT WANT YOU

firstly just let me say. she is so sweet and lovely. she is beautiful, slim and funny and could have anyone tbh. she is a brill friend and i don't want to hurt her. however she is a bit naive tbh, she is 30 but this is only her 3rd relationship in her life

she was with this total dickhead who fucked her around for 18 months, finally becoming such a total shit to her that she ended it with him 6 weeks ago. i think he deliberately became even more of a twat to her so she did the dumping, saving him having to dump her, the spineless little wanker

she decided a couple of weeks ago she wanted him back because she just loooooves and misses him soooooo much. (WHY? why would you miss someone who made you miserable and fucked with your head all the time) i have no idea) so she has started texting him and saying she wants him back

all contact is initiated by her. and he is clearly not interested in having her back, as IMO if he ever wanted her in the first place, he would not have treated her like shit through out the whole relationship for a start, and when she finished it he would have tried to get her to change her mind. which he didn't. and he occasionaly answers her texts in wishy-washy "nice" ways, giving her hope. but i think its that he is too spineless to tell her he deffo does not want her back

she keeps asking me for advice but she just does not seem to be listening. i have (gently) said he does not seem to want you back, but she just doesn't seem to want to hear me. she is going to end up looking stalkery if she is not careful

There are some real gems in there, and here's the quote from there that's probably most relevant to your friend:

“But what I can do is paint you a picture of what you’ll never see when you’re with a guy who’s really into you: You’ll never see you staring maniacally at your phone, willing it to ring. You’ll never see you ruining an evening with friends because you’re calling for your messages every fifteen seconds. You’ll never see you hating yourself for calling him when you know you shouldn’t have. What you will see is you being treated so well that no phone antics will be necessary. You’ll be too busy being adored.”

When I finally found a guy who WAS into me, it was such a revelation... no obsessive phone checking, no fretting about whether he liked me or not etc god it was an eye opener to how pathetic I was in the past.

You sound like a really good friend, but I think you've said everything you can now. Just be there to pick up the pieces when the inevitable happens....

well i spoke to her yesterday, i asked her if i had upset her and if she had fallen out with me. but we are fine. <phew>

she actually said she was grateful to me for being so honest and that it takes a real friend to do that. bless her.

but she has said that she IS still going to pursue this guy...apparently she is meeting up with him next week. which i know that SHE will have to chase HIM to arrange (AAARGH)......she says she wants some "closure" either way....that she spent 18 months with him and doesn't just want to give up for the sake of keeping her dignity, she says it is not about keeping her dignity its about being honest with someone she gave everything to and spent so long with.

so i have just said i respect your decision etc. and i do in a way. i will always be there for her and i won't judge her (although i guess i AM judging her by posting this thread ) ....so i think now its just a case of waiting with tissues

oh god i know its going to be an absolute car crash when he does let her down as she really does take things like this badly. but i am also worried that because he is such a spineless, cowardly jerkoff he will not admit that he definitely does not want her back and will keep her strung along indefinitely with his "polite" occasional replies

I've been there, and I would have welcomed what you wrote, but often these things need time to sink in, and need to come from a variety of sources. She needs to change her whole way of thinking, and that's not an intstantaneous process, and has to come from within her.

I agree with SamHamwidge that seeing her with another woman might help most of all. That's what happened with me - just finished uni, infatuated with a man who blatantly told me I wasn't his type, he preferred big busted, model type women. Then I saw him with his new girlfriend, and while I'm sure she is a lovely person (she would have to saintly to put up with him), she certainly wasn't a model, or even well, never mind, I'm not going to be bitchy.

If he is the sort to hide other women in his life, then that's more tricky. It might be that he is deliberately stringing her along for his ego.

But just give her time. I think being trying to get her interested in other men is a different issue. Some men that decide they want you are actually bloody irritating, and women are allowed to be choosy too, and not just pick a man who wants to get married and have kids and a cosy home asap.

Unfortunately, what might ultimately snap her out of it is when he finds someone else and acts completely different. Seen it a million times, the bloke who doesn't believe in marriage etc then goes and gets hitched to someone else within 5 minutes.

In my experience the only way to stop blessing about someone is to cut ALL contact. No Facebook etc. Any news from the guy whatsoever just feeds the fantasy. It needs to 'burn out'.

I hope she wakes up and realises this sometime before.she wastes years on the guy, him replying to texts is just feeding her fantasy, I bet she keeps the text and reads it again and again analysing everything down to the last full stop sigh

However I have been you friend and the more people said he's not in to you the more I convinced myself he was.

I think your just going to have to wait for your friend to have her breakthrough moment. I never had mine till I got with dp and saw what love really is.

It sounds like friend has really low self- esteem and doesn't believe she's worthy of love. Could you encourage her in other aspects of her life like her career to give her the confidence boost it sounds like she needs

We've all been there haven't we! Convincing ourselves that a bloke is interested in us when they just aren't. The thing is, when someone is in that mindset, it doesn't matter what you say to them, they will not hear you.

By sending your email, you are now the bad guy. She will realise you were trying to look out for her at some point, but not while she is still hung up on him. Be prepared for her to be angry with you for now.

That was when I was pretty young though and I think it does come from self-esteem problems partly, and also society kind of encourages women to "work on" relationships in a way that some of them take way too far.

I think what snaps people out of it is a bit of gentle self-mockery (cos it is a ridiculous way to be), and also the realization that their feelings/their relationship/their man are not precious and unique, the same pattern is being repeated by hundreds of other women. That's why i recommended the Baggage Reclaim blog, if you can get her to read a few posts about "Mr Unavailable" she'll see this bloke in black and white - and herself.

To her, if a man is a shit to her and clearly not interested in her, that is her cue to start building a massive internal romantic fantasy about how he does want her "really" but just can't see/accept/admit it, and she just has to persevere against the odds, wait and hope long enough, and do/say/wear the right things, and she'll "cure" him of being a shit and he'll suddenly have a revelation and realise he does want her after all. Because all her lurve and sacrifice will get a sort of cosmic payback, you see

you know what madbuslady? i think you have it spot on but i have not been able to articulate it. this is exactly what she is doing/does

and when men are nice to her, don't fuck her about, and want commitment etc she dumps them and turns them into joke figures amongst her and her friends

Trouble with you slagging him off is that she will rationalize it by thinking "Oh well dirtyface just doesn't like him, she's bound to say those things".

When a girl gets like this (and I include myself here), they get completely blinkered and cannot see sense. It will only be once she's over it and out the other side that she will realise you were right all along.

Hope this doesn't ruin your friendship

Hand her HJNTIY (yes, I have acronymed the book as my friends and I referenced it so much to each other whenever one of us was hanging on a thread for some shit-head), and tell her you love her and don't want to fall out over him.

Just want to agree with above posters that you should buy her a copy of the book 'He's just not that into you' (the film is really wishy-washy, but the book is brill, a real eye opener to me in the past)

Because for some reason, hearing it from your friends can just get your back up/send you into denial etc even though of course you (OP) are totally right... reading about it from a Man's point of view (which is how the book is written) REALLY helps it sink in.

That's the revelation I had (thanks to my friends' intervention) about my twunt: all that was on offer from him was an occasional shag preceded by lots of (cynical) flattery. I could take it or leave it but I would never persuade him to offer more. I decided my self-esteem wasn't low enough to take it. His parting words? 'You'll change your mind'.

I am really sorry if I missed something op but he sounds like a bloke who wanted a casual relationship and still does. he wasn't married to your friend or engaged so really what does she want from him? he isn't going to commit and why should he?

your friend is bombarding him with messages and affection and could be seen as being the unreasonable one here. he might or might not be 'a shit' but he's a free agent.

your friend seems a bit childish for a 30 year old woman.

you sound lovely and your email was spot on.

your friend may be enjoying the drama of your rage and his indifference. remember that.

I hope your email gets through to her, but if it doesn't I think I know why. You and she are assuming some fundamentally different things.

To you, if a man is a shit to you and clearly not interested in you anyway, that is your cue to kick him to the curb.

To her, if a man is a shit to her and clearly not interested in her, that is her cue to start building a massive internal romantic fantasy about how he does want her "really" but just can't see/accept/admit it, and she just has to persevere against the odds, wait and hope long enough, and do/say/wear the right things, and she'll "cure" him of being a shit and he'll suddenly have a revelation and realise he does want her after all. Because all her lurve and sacrifice will get a sort of cosmic payback, you see?

Probably sounds nuts to you but I'll bet anything she really believes that.

So everyone who says to her "he's a shit and he doesn't want you" is playing the role of "doubter" in this romantic narrative and making her more determined to persevere.