Square hulls seem to be all the rage these days, even with motor yachts. One advantage to the square hulls is storage space. It's a lot easier to make a cabinet out of a square than to figure out how to make the door curve. FP and Lagoon have gone the same route.

I did notice the backup camera. That's something on my list of upgrades. Almost all cats these days have a hard bimini that blocks your view of the transom.

We sailed home from our holiday destination yesterday, 42 miles as a crow flies or launch motors, but 67 miles as our catamaransails (roughly 100 degree tacks) with our destination directly upwind (ah, the tyranny of a schedule). In 15-20 knots of wind (true) and a single reef with 2 metre swell we averaged 7.6 knots and about 5 knots vmg. The sailing was fun and the 9+ knots in the gusts, leaping through and off the swells, made up for the dawdling 6 knots and additional leeway in the lulls.

I canít imagine how a boat with half the bridgedeck clearance, at least double the height of cabin and flybridge, and hulls twice as wide would have sailed in those conditions. But maybe thatís the point, boats like the Leopard 50 are not about the sailing? Certainly a luxurious platform.

For those interested, our holiday destination was Great Barrier Island, off the coast NE from Auckland, NZ. Absolutely fabulous and we could have easily doubled the two weeks we spent there. Port Fitzroy was fun for Smokehouse Bay and for stocking up, but otherwise the Mokohinau Islands to the north, the Broken Islands along the west coast as well as some of the bays such as Bowling Alley and Graveyard, and on the east coast Rakitu Island and surf beach hangouts were spectacular. Amazing limestone geology with sea caves and swim throughs galore, super fishing and wildlife, and relatively uncrowded despite the season. For cruisers coming to NZ, donít stop with the Bay of Islands and Whangarei!

For my penny's worth we used to like them but as the roofline got longer and you stopped seeing the corners we started to go off them. The very angular interiors put me off and the use of a lot of greys made it look (to the Mrs) like a man's world and put her off. Outside it is getting closer to Lagoon (not a direction I like) and the setup is purely charter.. not for me but no doubt great for its target market.

I canít imagine how a boat with half the bridgedeck clearance, at least double the height of cabin and flybridge, and hulls twice as wide would have sailed in those conditions. But maybe thatís the point, boats like the Leopard 50 are not about the sailing? Certainly a luxurious platform.

Where are you getting the information about the Leopard 50's clearance?

I know the predecessor Leopard 48 had just under 3 feet clearance ... so do you really think the Leopard 50's clearance is really materially different?

That said, I am looking into it further.

I have no idea what the new Leopard 50 bridgedeck clearance is, but it looks very low from the photos in this thread. The minimum clearance on our boat is 2.5 feet (76 cm) for about half the bridgedeck (under the salon) and the other half (under the cockpit) is just over 3 feet (98 cm).

Itís not just about the height of the bridgedeck clearance but also the size of the bridgedeck. Cats like this new Leopard have bridgedecks from near the bows to almost the sterns - great for deck-level space and storage, but much more constricting to the waves between the hulls. In contrast, our bridgedeck starts at the main beam under the mast (24 feet or about 6 m aft of the bows) and finishes at the aft beam, 10 feet (3 m) forward of the sterns. Makes for much more limited accommodation spaces, but much more comfortable sailing in any sort of seas.

All boats are trade offs and given the way modern cat designs from most brands have gone, accomodations are more important than sea kindliness. For that matter modern monohull designs are going the same way.

I have no idea what the new Leopard 50 bridgedeck clearance is, but it looks very low from the photos in this thread. The minimum clearance on our boat is 2.5 feet (76 cm) for about half the bridgedeck (under the salon) and the other half (under the cockpit) is just over 3 feet (98 cm).

It turns out the bridgedeck clearance on the Leopard 50L is 3 feet -- actually 3.5 feet on a half load. See the attached.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fxykty

Itís not just about the height of the bridgedeck clearance but also the size of the bridgedeck. Cats like this new Leopard have bridgedecks from near the bows to almost the sterns - great for deck-level space and storage, but much more constricting to the waves between the hulls. In contrast, our bridgedeck starts at the main beam under the mast (24 feet or about 6 m aft of the bows) and finishes at the aft beam, 10 feet (3 m) forward of the sterns. Makes for much more limited accommodation spaces, but much more comfortable sailing in any sort of seas.

I'm not a naval architect, but I'm not sure whether that matters if your bridgedeck is high enough. Moreover, if anything, I doubt it has any effect on the comfort of sailing, since the whole purpose of the bridgedeck height is to reduce slapping, but it may affect speed. And I've no doubt an Outremer is a higher-performance boat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fxykty

All boats are trade offs and given the way modern cat designs from most brands have gone, accomodations are more important than sea kindliness.

That's undoubtedly true, but then Leopard's sail all over the world from Cape Town (where they have some of the most treacherous waters in the world) -- hence the term Cape of Good Hope -- so it's a little hard to believe that they are anything other than adept off-shore boats.

Anyway, I happen to think the boat is gorgeous and saw it in Miami. I get that some may not like the aesthetics, but if we're going to criticize the boat's performance we should probably all make sure we have the facts straight ... just saying.

That's undoubtedly true, but then Leopard's sail all over the world from Cape Town (where they have some of the most treacherous waters in the world) -- hence the term Cape of Good Hope -- so it's a little hard to believe that they are anything other than adept off-shore boats.

Anyway, I happen to think the boat is gorgeous and saw it in Miami. I get that some may not like the aesthetics, but if we're going to criticize the boat's performance we should probably all make sure we have the facts straight ... just saying.[/QUOTE]

In the interest of having the facts straight, as you said, the days of all the Leopards sailing all over the world from Capetown are over. It used to be the case, and was, in fact, a very good selling point. I think that Leopard quite justifiably bragged of over 4 million delivery miles! I, personally , thought it very important when I bought my '99 L45, which is a very tough and well built boat. But, by far most of them are now loaded onto ships and delivered that way. That's not to say that they aren't capable of the delivery.....I would think they would be, but it's not fair to say they were delivered on their own bottoms, anymore.

These guys are in business, the aim is to deliver a boat to the customers for as least cost and risk as possible. So to deliver on own bottoms will cost crew salaries, increased insurance, wear and tear of a crossing, unreliable delivery times, and higher risk to life and limb. Now days if a corporation incurs high risk to employees and even subcontractors, especially if they are publicly owned, above anything, else Boards will want to reduce the human risk factor. The Company associated with Leopard is a big British Tour company TUI. I would not be surprised that an executive decision was made to make deliveries by ship following the tragic delivery a few years ago. This could be the driver more than anything to do with the boat itself, but I am just guessing.

We ordered the new leopard 50, 6 months ago when it was first released. Miami was the first time we saw it in person. We are pretty excited about the new lines and all the enhancements to the interior. We now feel like the leopards are approaching the great interiors of the FP’s and lagoons. We currently have a leopard 48 and ours sails unbelievably well. Most of the folks at Leopard believe the 48 is the best sailing boat in years. We were very concerned about performance on the new 50 so we ordered the performance model it’s called the leopard 50 P. It weighs 1500 pounds less than the L model and it does not have the flybridge or that big dinghy platform, neither of which we will want for passage making. Ours is hull number 21 and it will be the first P model which means we are the outliers. The boom is lowered and the mast is taller and they’re offering CDX performance sails. With all that it’s still a big cruising cat so I will probably have a commercial scale at the dock to make sure we don’t overload her with gear and equipment :-)

These guys are in business, the aim is to deliver a boat to the customers for as least cost and risk as possible. So to deliver on own bottoms will cost crew salaries, increased insurance, wear and tear of a crossing, unreliable delivery times, and higher risk to life and limb. Now days if a corporation incurs high risk to employees and even subcontractors, especially if they are publicly owned, above anything, else Boards will want to reduce the human risk factor. The Company associated with Leopard is a big British Tour company TUI. I would not be surprised that an executive decision was made to make deliveries by ship following the tragic delivery a few years ago. This could be the driver more than anything to do with the boat itself, but I am just guessing.

To put a more factual spin on it, TUI no longer owns Leopard or Moorings/Sunsail. Not that it matters, but TUI is a German company. R&C stopped delivering boats on their own bottoms, at least to the Caribbean and the US, well before that accident. The reason given to me was that there aren't enough skippers and crews available; as someone in the industry, that raised my eyebrows. Delivering by crew was cheaper than by ship, and the boats were incredibly well protected from wear and wear. Everything was covered in plastic. The crews even cooked on a portable stove so that the boat's stove was untouched. When commissioned in Road Town, the boats looked perfect. A delivery ship would work on a more predictable schedule, but that schedule is organized around volume, not single boats, as can be done when they are delivered on their own bottoms.

I am NOT knocking R&C. I own an older Leopard, and love the boat. I have had her for fourteen years, and for that generation, at least, I can speak to the quality and robustness of the build, and the fit and the finish. There is a reason that quite a few of these are owned by industry professionals. And, I will tell you, that it was very impressive to know that the Leopard fleet had amassed over four million delivery miles, everywhere in the globe. It was a strong advertising point.....kinda negated the naysayers online and in bars, as nothing is a better proof than actual performance. That generation of Leopards was also designed very much as "boats" that basically could be sailed wherever you wanted.

That point can not be made when the boats are delivered by ship. I don't think the current models of Leopards and other production cats are necessarily any more skewed to the charter market than before. Companies respond to consumer demand, and I think it is the charterers who may have changed, as a group, to a more financially frugal, whilst luxury aspirational group. There are more "R/V type" cruisers today, than before, as well. By that, I mean folks who mostly cruise from marina to marina and from maintenance provider to maintenance provider. There are plenty who still go from anchorage to anchorage and who can and do work on their own boats, but when you add every amenity available, inevitably there will be some that need professional care.

Cats are not inexpensive, and many who buy them have spent their lives amassing wealth and stuff, rather than sailing experience, and it shows in the boats they choose.

Anyway, the reality seems to be that R&C's market is OK with the boats being delivered by ship, as opposed to on their own bottoms. Personally, I preferred it the other way, and that's how others, such as Voyage, still do it. And I can't help but think that knowing that the boat you build will start its life by sailing several thousand miles helps keep everyone's eye on the ball.