What makes Tebow the easy target for this type of banter is his success and hype from his college career. Still, I take a chance on the kid and bring him to New England. He's ready to soak up knowledge and insight, which Brady and Belichick will gladly dish out. People may forget that Brady and Belichick meet on their own each week, even if they don't have to. They share ideas, knowledge, and just talk. Tebow is the type to do the same thing. The kid has a chip on his shoulder and he's willing to learn. What more do you want from a young player? I know I know, people are going to say 'uh, talent maybe?'. He's got it. He's already improving and I have no doubt in my mind that he can become a better QB over time. And if not, he can still be on our roster to play a wildcard role. Belichick CAN and WILL find a creative way to keep this kid on the field. He's got too many intangibles to ride the bench. People on this board often ask 'why aren't there more Vrabel and Bruschi type players?' There are and Tebow is one of them. He may not fit our QB position but he's going to be on the field one way or another and he'll continue the Patriot tradition.Posted by apdynasty23

Apd, I usually agree with you, but what 'talent' does Tebow have? You referenced that and a 'chip on his shoulder'. I think you need more than that. If there wasn't this folklore about the great Tebow then he wouldn't even be drafted.

And no friday meeting will help him develop if he doesn't have the skills. And you really want BB meeting with your 3rd string qb every friday. He can be HC, DC, OC, meet with Maroney, meet with Brady, then teach Tebow how to throw. That sounds like a great plan. Draft him #22. Who needs a pass rush when you have great leadership from a player who may actually play in 3 years, when he learns how to throw. Great plan guys...

Rockdog - Brady just needed a few tweeks? He showed nothing is why he wasn't taken. He went to Michigan so he wasn't a hidden secret like Jerry Rice. Everyone checked him out and many said he had nothing that you wanted in a QB in any of the things they looked for in skills which would include throwing. All I am saying is you never know how players will turn out and I never said top players drafted have as little chance of making it, but there have been too many absolute busts in the # 1 player taken, and that should never happen, but it does. and dplav, have you ever heard of schools like UMiami and USC? They are definitlely warm weather schools, Fla plays in Gainsville in the northern part of the state where the winter is like fall weather, so please let go of that one.Posted by quasi

Yes, Brady just needed to get bigger and stronger. He did that and was an exceptional QB with plus arm strength. He was slow so he wasn't a marketable QB, so he slipped in the draft. He also was in a Pro offense that helped him develop as a decision maker.

You never know how players will turn out, but you can't just take a productive college player and think it'll translate to the pros because the guy is famous. That's what is happening here, and it's mental. No one is even talking about how lousy he played in the senior bowl. It's all hype and 'Tebow has the heart' and 'chip on his shoulder', and that's just a dumb way to pick players. You need character and talent.

In Response to Re: Why do most of you Pats fans think so little of Tebow? : I agree mostly, but let's stop the garbage about him being a TE. THE GUY HAD TROUBLE TAKING SNAPS AT THE SENIOR BOWL! As a qb you'd think he's be able to take snaps. The thought that he could be a TE is hysterical. For one, he's a lot slower than many of the TE's in this years draft class. Look up the numbers. Hernandez, from his own team, is markedly faster. For two, he's never played the position. Do you really want him blocking Julius Peppers? Top TE's from past drafts like Watson have struggled in the NFL, and your telling me an ex QB who have never played the position before will be just like Dallas Clark? That's just mental! I'd rather the Pats draft guys like Myron Pryor and Edleman in the late rounds rather than take Tebow. Posted by Rockdog1293000

I agree with you about there being better TEs. I would not take him as my TE of TEs. if i had to take him, it wouldnt be before the 5th round and if i did take him it would be in a TE like position. The reason i say TE or maybe HB is because ive watched games of him in college were he lowered his shoulders and ran over people. i dont like him as a QB but i will give him respect when it comes to taking a hit and doing his best for a couple extra yards running. Look, im not a fan.

For people saying he works hard and BB/Brady would teach him everything is rediculous reason to pick him up. I work hard and would listen very closely to everything those two had to tell me but you guys wouldnt draft me.

its a shame. The guy is a good maybe great athlete. He's just not a great QB. Maybe we will all be shocked when he takes jacksonville to the super bowl.....pffff..pfff...heeehhee

Bill Walsh drafted Joe Montana 82nd in the third round in 1979, adding to a team that hilariously employed players OJ Simpson and Tony Dungy. Anyway, Walsh apparantly wasn't too high on Montana either. Finding another Brady is like finding a needle-in-a-haystack.

It's time for the presentation of the Paulie award for the most overrated player in the draft. Past recipients of the Paulie award have gone on to... Well, there was shrimpy-arms DeWayne Robertson, drafted by the Jets, and stone-hips Gholston, drafted by the Jets. The envelope please, ...

And the 2010 Paulie award winner is, Wonderlic Tim Tebow! He's actually not the dumbest quarterback available, he's just below average for QBs. Where is this guy going to be in three years? Duh! He's also of average height and has crummy mechanics.

Now accepting for Wonderlic Tim Tebow is the general manager of the Buffalo Bills.

Im so sick of talking about this kid , seriously enough w/ Tebow. Listen Ive never been a fan of his and I think with good reason. He reminds me of a stronger , faster , bulked up Cassell...WBTW is terrible. In terms of his position , QB , he hasnt shown anything while at Florida. Hes not accurate , he cant make half the throws you would need to make it in the NFL and apparently he thinks its against his faith to chuck it more than 7 yards. His footwork is bad and his body language screams " Im taking off if my first read isnt there ". And in the NFL hes three yards and a cloud of dust , hes not running away from anyone. Seriously , nevermind out running backers , you really believe he can beat Peppers around the edge or run over and over power Willis on a 3rd & 1? I really doubt it. Now 98% of what I just said isnt my opinion , the last part about his running ability is , but I highly doubt that hes out running anyone on D accept Wilfork and Shawn Rogers. Listen as I said before Im not a fan , but I want anyone and everyone who can help my team. I " mosdef " would not take him until the 5th and we all know hes going in the late 2nd or somewhere in the 3rd. Im not a fan , but Im not a hater , I wish him all the best...Hes going to need it , he throws sideways LOL LMFAO...I know , I know it was a cheap shot. Sorry I couldnt resist , seriously though I do wish him good luck.

In Response to Why do most of you Pats fans think so little of Tebow? : This is an excellent point. I say, if Tebow is there in the sixth round the way Brady was, by all means, scoop him right up. (apparently, you can't say "sn*tch")Posted by p-mike

In Response to Re: Why do most of you Pats fans think so little of Tebow? : Apd, I usually agree with you, but what 'talent' does Tebow have? You referenced that and a 'chip on his shoulder'. I think you need more than that. If there wasn't this folklore about the great Tebow then he wouldn't even be drafted. And no friday meeting will help him develop if he doesn't have the skills. And you really want BB meeting with your 3rd string qb every friday. He can be HC, DC, OC, meet with Maroney, meet with Brady, then teach Tebow how to throw. That sounds like a great plan. Draft him #22. Who needs a pass rush when you have great leadership from a player who may actually play in 3 years, when he learns how to throw. Great plan guys...Posted by Rockdog1293000

You make great points about his talents (or lack thereof) and the chip on his shoulder not being enough. I personally look at character first and talent second, which is completely wrong in terms of building a football team. That's why you'll never see me comment on any threads about mock drafts or this pick or that pick. I don't know and I put complete trust in Patriots management.

I see Tebow as a good kid who has a perspective on life that goes way beyond just football and making millions of dollars. To me, that's great and there's not enough guys like that, even if he can't throw right or not fumble snaps.

I don't know much about evaluating prospects and deciding who's worth which pick so I don't even try to jump into those discussions. I do know, however, that I wouldn't spend any of our second round picks on him. We need a pass rush and a better running attack --- not a possible project in building up Tebow. I've always commented on those "Patriots aren't doing anything this offseason" threads and each time I've applauded the team for keeping last year's team intact and then having to build our defense (our pass rush, more specifically) through the draft.

I'd just like to see Tebow in a Patriots uniform from strictly a personal standpoint. Even if he stinks bigtime, the fans are going to love the whole "little engine that could" story. He'll be great in the community as well. I know I'll love rooting for the guy based on what I've seen and read from him. I think people also underestimate his locker room presence, which I know may not too much at the beginning but even NFL players have to admire the guy. I think with the Patriots, he can easily become one of the "glue" guys.

[by the way, I am not a Florida fan and I have ALWAYS blasted Tebow for his jump passing sh!t. Now that that joke of an offense is behind him, I want him to be a Patriot]

"Most of you Pats fans?????" Anybody who follows college ball closely knows how good Tebow is. He's a gamble though just like every other college QB. It's much easier to be pessimistic about college players than it s to be Positive because the great majority of all draftees fail in the NFL.Depending on what your needs are as a team Tebow is your surest thing just because he's got his $h!t together as a person and a player.It wouldn't bother me if the Pats draft him.

p-mike, you really think he'll drop down to the SIXTH ROUND?! I find that hard to believe because for all the hype, someone's going to pick him within the first 3 rounds.Posted by apdynasty23

Actually no, ap, I don't really think that. My other post was a poor attempt to point out -- through sarcasm -- that quasi's correlation of Tebow with Brady (or any other quarterback, for that matter) is not germane to the discussion. Clearly, it did not land at all and for that I blame myself entirely.

If I had to guess I would say that somebody is going to grab Tebow in the second round and eventually be very sorry that they did.

There wasn't a single scout faulting Brady's release. Or his arm strength. Or his reads.

Most of them had questions about bulk and experience. A few scouts questioned his decision making.

But he was plus mechanics. Plus on the system. Plus on height. Plus on arm strength.

Tebow is plus on team/person skills. Plus on commitment. Plus on bulk.

Minus on release. Minus on effective arm strength. Minus on intelligence. Minus on footwork. Half-minus on only adequate height. Minus on accuracy. Minus on experience outside of UF's spread system that has a track record of translating poorly to the NFL.

If he is sitting there in the sixth round like Brady was, I would think about grabbing him. He has the kind of size and commitment that makes me think he has a good floor as a special teams leader/standout. With a soft ceiling as a backup QB, H-back starter, or with extreme luck a serviceable starting qb.

Never higher.

Simply saying that Brady panned out does not affect how you evaluate this player. Especially, and this is key here, in light of the thousands of other sixth round QBs with question marks that were out of the NFL before their rookie contract ended.

That would be like me saying that James Harrison was a UFA with question marks, so NE should draft suck-y linebackers three rounds ahead of where they belong.

In short, it makes zero sense as an argument.

Given NFL odds and all of the problems associated with Tebow, it is more likely that he doesn't finish his rookie contract that that he becomes a legitimate starter.

zbellino, I don't get it, If Brady had all these great traits, a couple of question marks, and the only negative was weight and maybe experience, I would think he would have been taken much earlier. It's easy to add weight, and so many players have to gain weight when they move up to the next level from high school to college & then to the pros. I also think it is strange that someone like Bill Walsh would see nothing in watching Brady show his stuff. Are you sure these aren't just your opinions after watching him and reading about him "after" he took over the starting job for the Pats? I would take Walsh's judgement of talent over BB any day. Walsh drafted his entire starting secondary in one of his early drafts that played for years. Saw things in Montana and Young that no one else saw. Taking the the greates QB of all time in the 3rd round didn't mean he didn't see little in him. It is shrewed to let players drop down to lower rounds, knowing no one saw what you saw in him. If Brady had as much talent as you say, and all he needed was some bulk and experience, I still say he would have been taken much earlier.

zbellino, I don't get it, If Brady had all these great traits, a couple of question marks, and the only negative was weight and maybe experience, I would think he would have been taken much earlier. It's easy to add weight, and so many players have to gain weight when they move up to the next level from high school to college & then to the pros. I also think it is strange that someone like Bill Walsh would see nothing in watching Brady show his stuff. Are you sure these aren't just your opinions after watching him and reading about him "after" he took over the starting job for the Pats? I would take Walsh's judgement of talent over BB any day. Walsh drafted his entire starting secondary in one of his early drafts that played for years. Saw things in Montana and Young that no one else saw. Taking the the greates QB of all time in the 3rd round didn't mean he didn't see little in him. It is shrewed to let players drop down to lower rounds, knowing no one saw what you saw in him. If Brady had as much talent as you say, and all he needed was some bulk and experience, I still say he would have been taken much earlier.Posted by quasi

Just so you know Bill Walsh of the SF 49ers was just about to grab Tom Brady and thought he had snuck him by everyone by ignoring him for the first 6 rounds,from what I remember from a conversation I heard in an interview immediately following that pick Bill Walsh was very upset for getting to fancy and overplaying his hand. He knew all about Tom Brady from his High School days in the Bay area. He didn't think anyone would pay attention to Tom and he only wished he had gone with his gut feeling and drafted him with their 5th round choice.

zbellino, I don't get it, If Brady had all these great traits, a couple of question marks, and the only negative was weight and maybe experience, I would think he would have been taken much earlier. ... If Brady had as much talent as you say, and all he needed was some bulk and experience, I still say he would have been taken much earlier.Posted by quasi

You just hit on maybe the best example of why the draft is such a crapshoot and why there are no absolutes when it comes to drafting. Brady was scrawny, slow and underappreciated. He wasn't even the best QB at Michigan, we were told. In fact, his teammate was a sure fire all-pro and future HOF-er notwithstanding the fact that Brady was more productive. Drew Henson was the next big thing. Brady might make a good coach some day.

The other thing about the draft is most GMs, coaches and personnel types are under pressure to win...soon. They don't want to use a high pick on a project, because they don't have the luxury of job security. By the time the guy develops, they may be long gone. Never underestimate that pressure.

Hard to believe someone says Tebow had a lot of hype. You win the Heisman trophy, you win 2 national championships, you put your team on your back and promise not to lose, and you go out and do it. What a lot of hype. NOT. The guy is a winner who can contribute to a team. I would not doubt him. The team who gets him will get a contribution from him in some manner. Who knows how he will fare at QB. There is no way to predict. Just look at Brady as the example. Who wanted him?

zbellino, I don't get it, If Brady had all these great traits, a couple of question marks, and the only negative was weight and maybe experience, I would think he would have been taken much earlier.

It only takes a couple, sometimes even one, question mark to bring a player down several rounds. This is especially true for a QB. There are any number of QBs with one or two good seasons, who will not get drafted simply because there isn't enough tape to make a coach feel comfy. Brady was, no doubt, in that group. The kid had only two years at QB. That is short. Every QB drafted on day one this year has at least three years at pass-first schools, most have four. If someone asked me to eval a player with solid mechanics, etc, but only two years experience, I would say the same thing . . . wait until late day two because two years is short experience.

I also think it is strange that someone like Bill Walsh would see nothing in watching Brady show his stuff.

OK. Strange. But he is the best drafter. Right? BB saw something in him right? Still not sure what our point is about Walsh.

I am sure Walsh saw 'nothing' in more players that made it. Seeing nothing (nothing stands out as elite) and seeing flaws (Tebow's inaccuracy, footwork, throwing mechanics)are two separate things.

Are you sure these aren't just your opinions after watching him and reading about him "after" he took over the starting job for the Pats?

Are you sure this isn't your opinion after being a super-huge man-crush fan of Tebow's for a while? Don't think that is not skewing your judgement?

And no, this is not my opinion, this is what was said about him coming out of college. I could name any number of college QBs with one question mark this year, who won't be drafted at all.

I would take Walsh's judgement of talent over BB any day.

Even though Walsh saw nothing in Brady and BB did? That doesn't make any sense. It would appear to me that drafting a QB like Brady on day two versus drafting a QB like Montana on day one are two different leagues of skill. No?

Walsh drafted his entire starting secondary in one of his early drafts that played for years.

What does this have to do with Tebow and Brady?

Saw things in Montana and Young that no one else saw. Taking the the greates QB of all time in the 3rd round didn't mean he didn't see little in him. It is shrewed to let players drop down to lower rounds, knowing no one saw what you saw in him.

This . . .

If Brady had as much talent as you say, and all he needed was some bulk and experience, I still say he would have been taken much earlier.

. . .contradicts this. When Walsh takes Montana in the 3rd instead of first it is shrewd. When BB takes Brady in the 6th, it is not shrewd?

Make sense dude.

Again, non-points. This is illogical. You still don't understand. James Harrison was a UFA. Evey team in the NFL passed on this guy. Does that mean NE should draft Tebow? Because once upon a time a scouting report short changed a player?

Does Bill Walsh endorse Tim Tebow? NO? Then what does he have to do with your argument?

Frankly, you are contradicting yourself. You are saying that BW was the greatest drafter ever. You would take his judgement over BBs. But he didn't draft Brady. So NE should select Tebow ahead of where he should go?

Honestly, slow down friend. Even at the root, logical level you are not making sense.

You would be better off telling people why you think Tebow is a good prospect, than making up/bringing in all this weird stuff that has nothing to do with the situation.

Bill Walsh, the greatest offensive genius ever who totally changed the NFL forever, and coached Montana and Steve Young, along with Steve Mariucci, who coached Favre, and was an excellent offensive mind, together worked him out privately, and there was absolutely nothing about him in delivery, footwork, or anything else that led them to believe he would be even a backup QB. All they heard was he had the "IN"tangibles, which are the leadership abilities and total team player. They said no to drafting him. His name? Tom Brady!! OK knowledgeable PATS fans, what do you have to say to that? No excuses! Were any of you at all happy about the Pats drafting him even in the late rounds? None of you have a clue how good or bad Brady or Tebow could be. They have similar qualities, the intangibles and the desire to workout and succeed. Go Pats!Posted by quasi

Alas, you have merely pointed out the obvious. I think the ONLY conclusion one can actually derive is that neither fans nor pundits have a clue as to what those "intangibles" exactly are. Otherwise, wouldn't prognosticators get it right more often than not?

Finally, since noone knows what those "intangibles" are.....declaring similaritites that Tebow may (or may not) have with some former great - doesn't make him a shoe in for success.

Bottom line....noone has a clue, but I wish him luck with the 1000s of other aspiring football players.

zbellino - I am not a huge fan of Tebow except that he was a "great" college football player. I am only busting everyone here for really thinking they are great judges of football talent, and they believe they can translate if a college player will make it as a pro, and that taking Tebow would be a huge mistake. I guess my best example would be Maroney, who I mentioned earlier. Everyone including me assumed that just because all the experts thought he was by far the best RB in the draft, most everyone assumed he was maybe the steal of the draft. He ended up as a pro, not even the best pick on his own team, like Drew Henson.

It is a total crap shoot, and it's funny after the draft is said and done, we all get so excited, and we hope BB and company are right on their judgements.