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The author rambles a bit, but he makes some interesting observations on C&R rifles and the people who own them.

Call me weird, but there is a certain pleasure in oiling the wood furniture on a late 19th century or early 20th century rifle and thinking of its history and its future. Plus, you can shoot it and make lots of noise and (hopefully) nice little groups of holes in a paper target (or Heaven forbid) in people who mean to do harm to us and our loved ones.

its like disassembling a mosin-nagant and bringing it back to nice condition,sometimes you wonder were this rifle been,how many men its killed or did its user take one in the chest for the motherland,my one fal i redid had 5 upside down crosses on each side of the handguards before the US furniture was put on it makes you wonder.

THAT is why it is so exciting to get a few bandoliers or Turkish Mauser ammo

Well, I don't really find this exciting as all I can think off is how much my shoulder is going to hurt!

I suppose that is why I don't watch network TV at all. I had rather watch "Wings at War" on the Discovery Wings channel or "Modern Marvels". I get really tired of the "post modern" stuff. And he is right. I DO find my AR15 a chore to clean but I will disassemble a C&R all the way to make sure it is clean. If I loose a spring, I will get a new one. If I lost something for the AR, I would probably wait till I felt like getting it.
My wife says I was born about 20 years too late!

__________________
Texas, it's a state of mind!!!!

The human race is not the pinnacle of evolution. We are but one evolutionary out come.

The author rambles a bit, but he makes some interesting observations on C&R rifles and the people who own them.

Call me weird, but there is a certain pleasure in oiling the wood furniture on a late 19th century or early 20th century rifle and thinking of its history and its future. Plus, you can shoot it and make lots of noise and (hopefully) nice little groups of holes in a paper target (or Heaven forbid) in people who mean to do harm to us and our loved ones.

I'm a bit weird, I like how the old rifles smell. The history behind each rifle is a big part of the hobby. Doing the research about arsenal marks and such is cool. Kind of like tracing your family's roots.

SUPERDAVE123: I love the smell of old rifles, too. I have a little room under the stairwell that holds about 40 or so old military boomers. Every once in a while, I unlock the door step in and just take a nice whiff of that smell. The poor people who have never owned or even fired an old military rifle....well, I shouldn't get started! I've been interested in guns since I was a kid, (I'm 56) and won't be selling any of my guns because of some stupid laws. I won't be knuckling under to a bunch of ninnies who have no idea of what they are talking about. I have rifles from all over the world, and treasure them. I love the looks of them, the workmanship, the history that comes with them, and best of all - the fact that I can own them without having to use them for the purpose they were intended. I do take them out and shoot with them, mostly at dangerous game such as paper targets, milk jugs, and rocks. Funny thing - all the people I know that own a pile of guns are the finest people you could ever hope to meet. I trust them and they trust me. I sure as hell couldn't say this about the %#@holes that are trying to take our guns away. kjohn

Isnt it awesome that when you go hunting with a C&R rifle other people look at you as if you have three eyes? I was told that using my Garand with iron sights would be to cumbersome to carry. I was told that my Turkish mauser would hinder my performance and my chances. All of these guys had their Remingtons, Savages, etc., they had their fancy scopes, and I am in no way knocking them, however, I was the only one to bag a whitetail that day. About 180-200 yrds out, the neck folded over like a limp sock and she dropped right there. 8mm is unbelievable. I used a $60 rifle that I restored, I used regular military iron sights, and whammo! I have a freezer full of prime venison. HAHAHA! none of my friends do. It's like when Bob Barker beat the sh it out of Happy Gilmore---"Price is wrong, ---Bi tch!!"

I have a April 1942 M1 Garand, and when I get it out I wonder was it with my dad in the Pacific or my uncle at the battle of the buldge. I love that rifle, it will never go anywhere except to one of my boys.
Having a piece of history is a great thrill, and it reminds me of the great struggle that it may have been in.
Protect them they do not make any more of them.

I have a "Radom" Polish Mauser that was made in 1934, and even managed to find about 5 boxes of Polish 8mm to go with it. I THINK it even still has the original sling with it, but I'm not sure. I would be willing to bet it fired some of the first shots of the second world war. I sure do wish it could talk! Never have fired this particular rifle, but I just enjoy having it around, and showing it to people who are interested in that sort of thing.

Since young impressionable people use this forum and it would not serve our cause to have them repeat misinformation citing FAL Files , I must quibble with this passage:

"The Modern age lasted until, many will argue, the assassination of JFK. Others will argue that postmodern society began in the 1950ís; still others will argue that it was born much later.

Postmodernism is a difficult concept to grasp. It is all around us and permeates our lives. It is especially an American phenomenon, but has since spread to other parts of the world."

Postmodernism is not particularly a political phenomenon, and even to the extent that it is nobody would make the argument that it begins at the assassination of JFK. Nor does the modern age end at this point. A better point (if we insist on artificial demarcations) to think of as the beginning of postmodernism is the first World War. It was this experience more than any other that made Western man reconsider his institutions, faith, and meaning.

That postmodernism extends so far as firearm design is equally dubious. Is it true that "AR-15/M-16 rifles are clearly postmodern" because they use plastics? Maybe. But the SKS, which the manifesto author includes in his list of good old rifles, definitely exhibits cheap features indicating resource-conscious production. And the claim doesn't fully explain why a weapon like the FAL has the same old-gun appeal even with its plastic parts and mid-20th century origin.

Rather than postmodern, a more correct word and concept to apply to our age is post-industrial. In today's "information economy" we increasingly posess specialized, intangible knowledge, which can make opening the hood of a late model car or the case of a PC intimidating experiences. In this context, Mr. Locke does correctly identify the magic of old-economy artifacta, of which guns are an important part:

"if the rifle could talk, it would speak of the horrors of war, and of the necessity to protect freedom.

That old, beat up, cosmoline-coated rifle sitting in the gun shop (for a hundred bucks) is the ticket to escape the postmodern matrix. It is a tool that leads to further knowledge.

Will the generations that succeed remark with such enthusiasm when they uncover our relics? Will your grandchildren be excited when they find the old inkjet printer ("Inkjet? What's ink?", they'll say) in your attic? Hardly; the printer will represent to them what it does to us, a disposable means to an economic end, whose workings and purpose are not readily clear. Will they be excited about your firearms? Yes; it will be a true machine unto itself, a piece of military, industrial, and political history whose model name may be already known to their minds, and will forever document, in steel, the world that was.

Most of my rifles are older than I am, if I were a firearm I would qualify as
C&R. Possibly the most interesting rifle is a M1891 Mosin Nagant. Made at
Izhvesk Arsenal in 1914 with full Russian Imperial markings, also marked
"Deutches Reich" with Imperial German eagle on stock, circle B for Bulgaria
on the right side of the chamber. It also has Turkish characters representing the serial number
on the reciever, and the Finnish "SA" property mark on left side of chamber.
"Could it but speak........"

Originally posted by royke Most of my rifles are older than I am, if I were a firearm I would qualify as
C&R. Possibly the most interesting rifle is a M1891 Mosin Nagant. Made at
Izhvesk Arsenal in 1914 with full Russian Imperial markings, also marked
"Deutches Reich" with Imperial German eagle on stock, circle B for Bulgaria
on the right side of the chamber. It also has Turkish characters representing the serial number
on the reciever, and the Finnish "SA" property mark on left side of chamber.
"Could it but speak........"

Russian - German - Turkish - Bulgarian - Finnish

How many unmarked owners?

That's an amazing history. It's too bad that we really can't trace it more accurately than that. I would love to hear the whole story.

I realize this is an old thread, but I love the ols stuff and have for XX years! Can't get into how many, makes me feel old.
I Have accumulated one each of every main battle rifle from WW1 &2 along with all the appropriate slings, cleaning supplies, bayonets, helmets, pouches, canteens ect. and at least one pistol for each .....all in excellent condition, and a few unissued. Only 3 rifles have import marks...one is an unissued M44(russian)..I unwrapped it at the importers warehouse many years ago( a story in itself)
All are highly shootable, but who has time?
I hope this thread gets going again, I love to talk old soldier guns

Ah I love my Mosin Nagant. The big long one. Every time that it goes to the range with a German 8mm Mauser the conversation invariably comes around to whether or not they saw action against each other. We could check dates, etc... but that would remove the mystique.

The other thing that we talk about is how could 2 opposing armies shoot at each other all day with these mules.

EBRs are fun to shoot, but I usually find myself handling the older C & R type bolt action Enfields, Mosins, Mausers, etc. more often. And enjoying it more. Even the crude, wartime production Mosins of WWII seem to ooze character as well as cosmoline and shellac chips.

I also have my inch and metric FALs, CETME and H&K G3SG-1 Sniper's clone, Yugo Kar98k, Indian 2A1, Russian SKS-45, and AKM SAR-1, SAR-2, and SAR-3.

Thr AK's and AR/M16 guns are fun to shoot, but they don't begin to exude the character of the symphonies in wood and steel of the main battle rifles.

I really get a laugh a the guys with their intermediate calibers and the "Bambi Slayers" with their scoped wonder rifles and .30-30 brush guns when I pull an MBR from its case. They have some ideas that the MBR can't shoot (in truth it's they that can't) and the rifle isn't sexy like theirs (beauty is in the eye of the beholder).

I tell them that my rifle is a tool; it was built to work under conditions theirs rarely see. It was built to work EVERY time. It was built to function with minimal maintenance. It was the difference between life and death for the man that carried it into harm's way.

And then the old war horse gets to show it's stuff and the smirks and laughs change to wonderous disbelief. The old war horse belches fire and recoils and a nice, tight shot group follows.

from time to time i will be heading outside to smoke and will have the urge to grab one of the guns off the rack and carry it outside with me.

its not unusual to see me standing outside at 3 in the morning with a mosin or SKS on my shoulder.

__________________
When the government violates the people's rights, insurrection is, for the people and for each portion of the people, the most sacred of the rights and the most indispensable of duties.

When I was going through the admission process for the police academy
I had to get a psychological evaluation....just to find out how nuts I am.
During this ordeal I had to take a version of the MMPI.
One of the fill in the dot series of questions had to do with firearm ownership.
"Do I take out and admire my firearms",well...of course I said yes.
During my inerview I mentioned this question,and that I thought it made it
seem that if I enjoyed owning the firearm I might be a loon.
The bearded pschologist smirked and skirted the issue.
I mentioned the machine work of my buddies Luger collection,
the brilliance of the Garand.Of the history those grains in the wood stock have seen.
He muttered something about Freud and how guns kill people.
My next comment had to do the duality of questioning gun ownership in a career where its pretty much mandatory.
No answer seemed forthcoming...
Yes! I take out my older rifles and pistols and admire them! I admit it!
Stone me in the Cazbah,burn me at a stake but I like those old guns.
They have a hell of a lot more character than that hairhead shrink.

__________________
People who hate mini-14's,
secretly stroke their bullpup
when no ones watching.

I think there is no duality. Unless you are talking about a weapon which thinks for itself and has authority to pick its targets and shoot them, guns do not kill people. It is the loonie behind it that has the final authority.

I believe guns can be admired as a work of art and metallurgy, as a way to understand the people that created it and their culture, as a piece of history, and as a technological achievement. But it also should be treated with respect. It is a device created to kill -- this is its entire reason for being -- and should be handled as such. Treat it with the respect it deserves, and make sure others do the same, and life will be great.

Which is the same issue I have with a lot of drivers; they do not realize they are steering, or something close to that, a 3000lb of metal that can smash squishy beings if not properly controlled and maintained. But, I digress...

Big thumbs up for all the posts in this thread. Nothing nowadays, -unless you're spending the big bucks on a really high-end custom piece - comes close to these old rifles' quality and craftsmanship, let alone their place in history.

About three weeks ago, I took my Martini-Henry MkII rifle in .450/577 caliber, to one of the local ranges. Only shot off ten rounds, but man! I definately got the attention of ALL the AR guys on the range.

There is little difference between admiring a Ming vase, a rare butterfly, or a firearm.

When I hold a Lithgow L1A1 I hold what was known to be mechancial perfection at the time; a unique piece that can be discerned from all others like it; and the history of a small town and people.

__________________
They will live a long time, these men of the South Pacific. They, like their victories, will be remembered as long as our generation lives. Longer and longer shadows will obscure them, until their Guadalcanal sounds distant on the ear like Shiloh and Valley Forge. --- Michener, Tales of the South Pacific

Originally posted by Abominog There is little difference between admiring a Ming vase, a rare butterfly, or a firearm.

When I hold a Lithgow L1A1 I hold what was known to be mechancial perfection at the time; a unique piece that can be discerned from all others like it; and the history of a small town and people.

What he said!

As one with a bit of experience in metalworking, I can take something as ordinary as an L1A1 or Springfield bolt and spend hours marveling at the intricate engineering and ponder the steps and techniques involved in making it.

These are the posts that express the feelings of true Americans and they
scare the anti's more than you can imagine.
That there are countless millions of these rifles squirreled away under
staircases and in attics rarely visited, produce nightmares in the progressives
troubled sleep.
That we can see where this is all going someday, gives me hope.

These are the posts that express the feelings of true Americans and they
scare the anti's more than you can imagine.
That there are countless millions of these rifles squirreled away under
staircases and in attics rarely visited, produce nightmares in the progressives
troubled sleep.
That we can see where this is all going someday, gives me hope.

Well Said, we need some hope, all of us KrAZy GuN NUtZ who foam at the mouth and hunt Progressives and their Children to EAT.