(05-17-2017, 09:37 AM)Shabby Russian Wrote: The problem with your argument Mandown, is that Corbyn et al supposed support for IRA violence was a long time ago as well. Since then everyone and their mum have met (and in some cases apparently charmed) ex IRA stalwarts such as McGuniness.

If the Conservatives want to bring things up from the 80s to use against Corbyn, then it is fair enough for the Labour Party to bring up other things from the 80s, like the widespread support in the Conservative Party for Pinochet, and the more fringe support within the party (but actually far more widespread support for the Apartheid regime) for hanging Nelson Mandela.

If we go back to 80s and 90s, prominent Conservatives were indifferent to the anti apartheid movement, they were supportive of Pinochet in Chile and it was the Conservative Party who passed Clause 28.

Now it is probably unfair to criticise the present day Conservative Party for how it behaved in the 1980s and 1990s, even though many of today's prominent Conservative politicians, were politically active in those days. History has made these views redundant. The 'terrorist' ANC (Thatcher's words not mine) were instrumental in overseeing a peaceful transfer of power in South Africa. Post Pinochet, Chile is a functioning modern democracy, where the democratic process sees power regular pass between right and left governments, without their being violence or civil unrest. And we have today a Conservative education minister who is gay.

And I think it is unfair to judge Corbyn by what he may have said in the 80s and 90s. Because things have changed. The Good Friday Agreement has seen a political settlement to the unrest in Ulster. Corbyn supported that agreement, and does not support those who wish to continue to use violence in Ulster.

Situations change, and we should be hankful for the changes in South Africa, Chile, Northern Ireland and attitudes towards homosexuality since 1990, not harp back to who said what, way back when.

(05-18-2017, 09:50 AM)Shabby Russian Wrote: You miss the point Mandown.

If we go back to 80s and 90s, prominent Conservatives were indifferent to the anti apartheid movement, they were supportive of Pinochet in Chile and it was the Conservative Party who passed Clause 28.

Now it is probably unfair to criticise the present day Conservative Party for how it behaved in the 1980s and 1990s, even though many of today's prominent Conservative politicians, were politically active in those days. History has made these views redundant. The 'terrorist' ANC (Thatcher's words not mine) were instrumental in overseeing a peaceful transfer of power in South Africa. Post Pinochet, Chile is a functioning modern democracy, where the democratic process sees power regular pass between right and left governments, without their being violence or civil unrest. And we have today a Conservative education minister who is gay.

And I think it is unfair to judge Corbyn by what he may have said in the 80s and 90s. Because things have changed. The Good Friday Agreement has seen a political settlement to the unrest in Ulster. Corbyn supported that agreement, and does not support those who wish to continue to use violence in Ulster.

Situations change, and we should be hankful for the changes in South Africa, Chile, Northern Ireland and attitudes towards homosexuality since 1990, not harp back to who said what, way back when.

(05-18-2017, 09:50 AM)Shabby Russian Wrote: You miss the point Mandown.

If we go back to 80s and 90s, prominent Conservatives were indifferent to the anti apartheid movement, they were supportive of Pinochet in Chile and it was the Conservative Party who passed Clause 28.

Now it is probably unfair to criticise the present day Conservative Party for how it behaved in the 1980s and 1990s, even though many of today's prominent Conservative politicians, were politically active in those days. History has made these views redundant. The 'terrorist' ANC (Thatcher's words not mine) were instrumental in overseeing a peaceful transfer of power in South Africa. Post Pinochet, Chile is a functioning modern democracy, where the democratic process sees power regular pass between right and left governments, without their being violence or civil unrest. And we have today a Conservative education minister who is gay.

And I think it is unfair to judge Corbyn by what he may have said in the 80s and 90s. Because things have changed. The Good Friday Agreement has seen a political settlement to the unrest in Ulster. Corbyn supported that agreement, and does not support those who wish to continue to use violence in Ulster.

Situations change, and we should be hankful for the changes in South Africa, Chile, Northern Ireland and attitudes towards homosexuality since 1990, not harp back to who said what, way back when.

Times have indeed changed for the better. But I am still not sure that I would ever want someone who had IRA guests 2 weeks after MPs were murdered as the Prime Minister. I don't want someone who called Hezbollah and Hamas 'friends' just 8 years ago in that position, either.

These aren't just abbottesque faux pas. They call his whole belief system and judgment into question.

(05-18-2017, 08:47 PM)Arti Wrote: Theresa May campaigned strenuously to Remain just last year. Look at her now. I call her judgement in to question. Recent enough?

Define "strenuously"?

That's the best laugh I've had all day. She did the thick end of fuck all knowing that this opportunity might present itself, just like the guy I'm campaigning for tomorrow in Halesowen and the guy I'm campaigning for in West Brom West on Sunday.