Background on Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Ramzi Binalshibh

Back in 2002 and 2003, largely due to their relevance to the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui and their captivity in overseas secret prisons where they likely were tortured, I wrote many, many posts about Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Ramzi Binalshibh.

Iraq & Mid-East Debacle has caused the deaths of nearly one million Iraqis and the crippling, blinding, burning, poisoning and maiming of tens of thousands of US Soldiers, for which neither he - nor any of his supporters - have taken any responsibility for to date, much less confessed. And for which there is overwhelming evidence that would convict in any court of law - not just in a kangaroo tribunal.

from some kind of visual deafness. What "fair and honest trial" are you blathering about? And I didn't see you mention that little caveat before.

He didn't get a fair and honest trial. He's not getting one now, and he's not going to get one ever. So your desire to hang him is tantamount to lynching. You don't like to get called on that, you keep your sadistic urges to yourself. Fat lot of good they've done you so far.

Whomever planned 9/11 could be described as a monster. Or, they might be described as a calculating strategist attempting to achieve a political result. I guess it depends on your perspective. But, I like you, Jim, prefer Monster for the orchestrator of such events.

I will also have to agree with Edger. Whomever decides to drop missiles on a compound to achieve a political result, knowing innocents might be killed could be described as a criminal and a monster. Children asking mommy what is happening and why people are sreaming in either event is something that no one can explain. It is the worst aspect of humanity - deliberate killing, maiming and destroying of property with weapons that can only be described as monstrous or barbaric.

I prefer that we treat monsters as human beings as a means to separate the worse aspects of humanity from the better aspects. We shouldn't torture "monsters" and "criminals," not because they don't deserve it for the acts they have committed, but because we are striving to separate ourselves from these criminals and their monstroust acts. We give them fair trials and public hearings, to demonstrate to the world we are not going lower ourselves to their barbaric and monstous levels. It is one means of striving to make the world a better and more peaceful place for our children and grandchildren.

Violences and barbarity begets more violence and barbarity. I believe that to be true. The only way to break the cycle is to react to violence with nonviolence. This means treating enemies (or monsters) with dignity and as fellow human beings. However, this does not mean that they won't be punished, it just means that we won't treat them as below human and as monsters-despite their monstrous acts.

Do you ever think about the freedoms you enjoy, and those who sacrficed to give it to you?

You have never answered my questions about what part of our freedoms you would negotiate away to the radical Moslems.

Freedom of religion?

The rights of gays and lesbians to live? (That's a very important right, don't you think?)

Really edger, you have become so predictable, understandable and well known. After all, you defined the way you act, the way you respect others' rights in this most telling statement:

by Edger on Thu Jan 25, 2007 at 02:17:12 PM EST ......

Anyone who wants me or others to be constrained from saying things that insult so that they will NOT feel constrained from doing things that kill, is trying to draw equivalence where there is none, and deserves absolutely no respect, civility, or any kind of tolerence whatever.

What do we do with this guy now? I mean, I dont want to pay to house this dewd in one of our prisons, but I couldnt hit the lever for the trap door to hang him either. So what do we do with him? Granted it would be easier for me to hit the switch on this cat than most other people, but he's still a human being...(sort of...j/k)

In the transcript of the "combatant status review" on March 10/07 a statement of the President of the tribunal says "This tribunal will determine whether Khalid Sheikh Mohammed meets the criteria to be designated as an enemy combatant...... [blah, blah, blah] (page 2).

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is not a nice guy, by any means. But... he was taken prisoner in Pakistan in March 2003, and has been held prisoner since. The tribunal was ostensibly to determine if he should be held, since only "enemy combatants" (terrists) are held there of course....

But since he had not been designated an "enemy combatant" before March 07.... under what authority and reasoning was he held prisoner for the past 4 years? Who should be held accountable for illegally imprisoning someone who is not an "enemy combatant" for 4 years? And what should the penalty for doing so be?

Oh, yeah - I forgot - Bush said he was a terrist. So he was. So Bush is accountable? Of course not. How silly of me.

Bush does not make any mistakes, except when appointing Attorneys General, Political Advisors, and Vice Presidents. And when exposing the identities of covert CIA operatives.
Does he? Is that a hard question?

is probably not a nice guy. He ::may:: even be a killer. But we'll never know, because he will never be charged or tried fairly and impartially under the system of justice represented by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed might or might have killed about three thousand people, but he could never harm the ::heart:: of America - the Constitution and the Bill of Rights... on his own. For that he needs complicity.

George W. Bush is responsible for the deaths of nearly a million people, many more than three thousand, and he and his appointees and his supporters would stab the ::heart:: of America by tossing out the Bill of Rights for expediency and out of fear... and by doing so do exactly what they accuse Khalid Sheikh Mohammed of... and grin and giggle while she slowly bleeds to death - all the while accusing those who don't help them kill her of attacking her.

Since he is not a citizen, was not captured on US soil and has illegally attacked the US and beheaded a US citzien.... the Bill of Rights doesn't apply to him.

Sorry edger, you just don't grasp the fact that we don't live in a world where everyone is equal.

And wishing doesn't make it true.

BTW - Libertarin stuff works fine as long as others are doing the heavy lifting that allows you to be protected and enjoy all the things covered in the Preamble.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

You see edger, this defines why and what the rest of it is all about.

It doesn't say, it works for me, but I don't wanna fight. It doesn't say,but I don't wanna pay my taxes..... etc.

Your problem Edger is that you don't want to pay your far share. Your moniker is instructive, you want to live on yhe edge.

You dont know me but I'm your brother
I was raised here in this living hell
You don't know my kind in your world
Fairly soon the time will tell
You, telling me the things youre gonna do for me
I aint blind and I dont like what I think I see

I did not know about kidnapping of the two children. That's the sort of tactic I would expect from one of the early Plantagenet kings -- John comes to mind. And if they were my kids, I would tell anyone anything they wanted to hear in order to ensure my children's safe return to the family. I can imagine that, and I don't even HAVE children.

(In my own defense, I admit to being highly distracted in 2003 -- graduate school, learning a new language, travel overseas to pursue said language, and serious back trouble complete with pain meds. It wasn't a lack of paying attention to news, but of being able to only give it so much time out of my day.)

That's funny; all I see here is trolling. And baiting. And flaming. And personal attacks. Very little discussion of the matter at hand. Oh, well, it's your site, and I'm just a guest.
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What I think:

KSM probably was the key planner for al-Qaeda. He was also in charge of propaganda--think about that for a few minutes. It doesn't seem humanly possible to have been deeply involved in even half of what he's confessed to. I don't care whether he's confessing because of his ego, harsh interrogation, or to cover for others. It would be a world record for naivete to presume that we've now got all of those cases solved.

Note also the timing of the announcement, and of the special ceremony to present the findings, which featured special invitations to Senators. We've had him for, what? Three years? More? I think it's merely a ploy to distract from the towering inferno of White House scandals. Whatever you think of this administration's use of the words "Nine" and "Eleven" spoken in quick succession, with the emphasis on the second syllable of "Eleven" (nine uh-LEV-en), you're a clueless fool if you think it their utterance of it has any meaning except, "Now shut up and listen." Whether what they have to say merits listening any more is left as an exercise to the reader.

It's the height of desperation to pounce on this like it means anything at this point. If we were going to make KSM the scapegoat for 9/11, the time for that passed years ago. Think about it: YEARS AGO. Either we got nothin' on the guy, or we've had plenty on him and either failed to follow up, or just plain dropped the ball. Again.

It's Khalid Sheik Mohammed, FFS. The mastermind behind the 2001 attack on the World Trade Center. The event that changed the world, for ever. How in the world do we not already have this guy in prison, executed, or frozen in carbonite? I'd have thought that we'd have invented some revolutionary science to extract facts directly from his brain. It's like we captured Satan himself without his armor, and we've just let him chill out for a few years before suddenly parading what's left of him onto a stage to confess.

Think carefully. If this was your project, would you really have waited for so long just to announce what he'd confessed to? Let's just say, for the sake of argument, that you had seventeen solid reasons for waiting. Are you really going to sit there and tell me that you wouldn't have already had at least one of the confessions fully investigated, corroborated, and proven to have led to the arrests of other dangerous terrorists? Let's assume that you didn't, that it really, really, really took you years to get the confession. Maybe you got a few confessions up front, then he clammed up for a few months, then a little more, you know, maybe he nickel-and-dimed you. Okay, fine. I think I've been very generous here.

Given all of that [implausible] point-spotting, now tell me with a straight face that you never once considered investigating at least one of his claims. You really thought your job was simply to extract confessions? Did you, maybe, pass this information along to whomever you thought might have the job of investigating?

I feel exactly the same way about KSM that I do about the invasion of Iraq. During "shock and awe", I was indeed awed by our military might. I had high hopes--even after the naive soldiers and/or Marines put the American flag where Saddam's statue had been*--but now that we're coming up on the FOURTH ANNIVERSARY of the invasion with nothing to show for it but 3000+ dead and tens of thousands wounded, I conclude that our leadership is incompetent--and in denial.

[Surely someone will pounce on this and spew a load of talking points, e.g., "We do so have something to show for it!" Rattle on. You're twice as entertaining as a circus geek.]

KSM: We caught him, or at least the Pakistanis did and turned him over to us. That's worth a lot of points. Way to go. Sitting on him for years on end, though, is further evidence of incompetence.

You fools who are still backing this administration probably wouldn't kick the preacher out of your church for anything--except maybe getting caught having sex with an intern.

And if you think for even a moment that KSM's capture did anything but teach al-Quaeda a lesson, you're dumber than my dog. Al-Qaeda is decentralized. Designed to operate with the head removed. Think "cockroach", or more accurately, "cockroaches". We caught a really big one, and we got him to talk, but there are many, many more in the walls, and they're multiplying. The big roach has confessed to eating the Jell-O, running across the baby's face, flying into Mom's hair, and showing the other roaches how to get into the baked goods on the counter. Meanwhile, the house is infested with vermin, and we're too busy watching TV to do anything about it today.

FFS, wake up, y'all. Captain Ahab is out of his mind.
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* If you don't get why this was a Very Bad Idea, you can just go back to whatever other ignorant pursuits you were involved in before you read this, and your last words will probably be "Hey, y'all--watch this!" Hint: We were not invading to take over, but trying to fly our flag there made it look like we were simply installing our government in place of theirs. See also LACK OF VISION OR PLANNING.