GJ: Once again, you wreaked havoc on an Allied fleet, albeit failing to administer the coup-de-grace. On the bright side, both of those were strategic victories and will slow down the pace of the Allied advance. You chewed up a lot of amphib and ground forces this time, as well. Well done, Sir.

PT Boats: These things are quite limited in fuel, which to me is working just fine. Gmoney is right. The only thing I'd revise in the game is making them more vulnerable to severe weather on the open seas, which is no doubt beyond the likely scope of WITP-AE. WITP 2, on the other hand...

I can't speak on pt boats in particular, but I am a fisherman (do it for a living), and I can tell you that boat size isn't the limiting factor in traveling the oceans, fuel is. So assuming the pt boats could refuel under way, they could conceivable cross the entire pacific from SF to Tokyo or even farther. The only other limiting factor would be weather, severe weather could swamp the pt boats, and I'm not sure the game models weather effects on any ship at sea other than cold weather zones. Speaking from experience, I've fished as far out as 400 miles from port on a 48ft trawler for 8-14 days at a time, in good weather and not so good weather, and I'm here to write about it. :) Just something to think about.

edit: Another thing to keep in mind is that the PT boats primary advantage was surprise. It was small, and against the back-drop of an Island were had to detect both visually and on radar. Once in the open water the PT boats lose this advantage, and their only advantages are speed and maneuverability, And if you are busy dodging gunfire it's hard to aim a torpedo straight enough to hit anything. Torpedoes of WW2 ran in a straight line, and had to be aimed in such a way as to intersect with a ships projected path. It would be virtually impossible to properly aim a torpedo while weaving and dodging to avoid gunfire, and as a result pt boats that lost the element of surprise were not very effective. This is why pt boats generally hugged the shore, to prevent early detection, and not because they were incapable of traveling open oceans.

As I understand it fishing trawlers are made to withstand severe weather, have a deep draft and thus good bouancy and less roll than something shallow like a PT. I certainly wouldn't like to meet a 20-30 foot swell in a 78-80 foot PT boat with a 5-6 foot draft. I would think those boats would have a tendency to roll severely in any weather at all, and also not be capable of their high speed runs in any kind of rough water simply because they'd be coming out and crashing down between every swell to the point the human crew would be incapable of anything, if indeed the boat was still afloat.

This is from a complete non-seaman, so please correct my (mis)-understanding if there are some completely off-base comments here. Although I don't ride in them often, I do look at a lot of boats and it seems anything built for rough weather and open ocean has a deep draft or something to steady the boat (a deep extending keel), as well as to cut through oncoming water and keep the heading true.

In game I we're probably going to have to deal with PTs doing a lot of things they may not have been able to do well, but that is true for many elements and usually works both ways.

< Message edited by obvert -- 1/29/2013 8:50:52 AM >

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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

Wow! Amazingly effective attack by 6 unescorted B-25's. Those boys are dy-no-MITE! He has been training them for a bit. Amazing they even took off without escort like that. He has evidently created an elite skip-bombing B-25 squadron.

depends on what you see as elite. As the Allied, I have all my medium USAAF bomber pilots trained to 70 low nav and 70 grd (as a result of this they also got 70 def and 50-55 exp) when they join a squadron later than 6/42. With all the excess fighter and bomer squadrons this is no prob at all and getting to 70 skill only takes 6-8 weeks on average. Add in that attack bombers attack with full bombload at low level and you have your ship killers, 70 lownav is all you need and getting them above 70 with training takes forever so it would be a waste of a pilot slot in a training squadron IMO.

I agree that PT boats weren't able to withstand heavy seas, but neither was the fishing boat I mentioned. we only drew 4ft of water empty (we were never really empty while fishing though) and had to use 'birds'-giant planers-for stability in rough waters. One thing to keep in mind though is that unless you are in stormy weather, waves offshore are generally gentle swells with a long interval (time between waves) and it is actually calmer in 1000+ft of water than in 100ft of water in the same conditions. 10 foot swells with a 5-6 second interval are a lot easier to deal with than 6 foot waves with 3-4 second intervals you find near shore. That being said, I agree-pt boats caught in sever weather should be in trouble, but so should destroyers/LST type ships. And for the record, before the war the US realized that the pt boat designed by ELCO was not stable enough in rough seas, and ordered a redesign of the PT boats specifically to improve their rough sea capabilities. This site has some general information on pt boats and links to books with more information- http://www.ptboats.org/20-01-05-ptboat-001.html

http://www.hnsa.org/doc/pt/doctrine/part1.htm another good read-this is the actual 1942 tactical ops manual issued to PT commanders in ww2. I also found on submarines issued in 1944, haven't yet found one from before that time.

Ok guys, it's getting serious now. We're counterinvading Moa. We can't wait no more. Already 5,000 allies, 13 guns and 20 vehicles are present. Nearly a regiment strong. We have to act. Tomorrow we'll be landing the 8th Division, along with 2 ind. Eng Regiments and 2 tank regiments. I had to work with what i had at hand, so it won't be a perfect amphib solution. A fast transport TF, supported by 2 amphib TFs. Tanaka will lead the operation, while Nagumo CVs will be guarding against the allied intervention...which will arrive, for sure. We'll have to fight against waves of PTs and against the allied cruiser TFs that every night guard the approaches of Moa. We'll do our best...if we let him build that base it's over.

Today he bombed Lautem with 100 4Es, in order to keep it close. Tomorrow he will attack Alor...i'm sure of that and Dili too.

The good news of the day comes again from Burma. After yesterday ambush over Mitikyna he tried to make me pay for the insult and came sweeping Mandalay with P-40Ks and Hurricanes...boy that was a bad idea. My crack Tojos and Georges (The first at 31k, the latters at 20k feet) ate the enemies alive, shooting down 23 hurris and 15 P-40s, for the loss of 2 Tojos and 1 George and not a single pilot WIA or KIA.

the CV Akagi was targetted by an enemy sub near Sorong...luckly he missed

Tomorrow 20 of my subs will be guarding the southern approaches of Moa. I know he will come sweeping with heavy SAGs. I cannot stop him, but this time he will have to face my BB/CAs, along with the KB's planes and the LBAs... the KB is still 460 planes strong, so it's still able to give some headhaces to Brad....

wow.. looking forward to that momentous battle.. I fear it will end up a damp squib, with your transports turning away and dispersing because of the heavy opposition, or not bein able to start unloading because of all the OPs spent.

Oh my! This is going to be interesting! You have a good mobile reserve there. You may already be doing this, but could you make a false invasion with some xAKL a day before the real deal, just to see what he's bringing and also to take some of it off the board? Either way it's a risk. You could go with deceipt and lose assets for nothing, or go all-in and lose troops on ships.

Tough to call, but I'm sure you have some surprises as well as a good amount of force to get this done.

As a side note, with the KB in the area you should also bag a ton of whatever PBY/Dakota transports he's been using to get troops onto Moa.

< Message edited by obvert -- 1/30/2013 11:27:14 AM >

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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

I support the use of picket ships.. Dare I say if he is sending PTs 200 miles through blue water from his bases, the use of a few picket ships shouldn't lead to an overreaction, or at least spark a legitimate discussion.

Akagi took a torp from a pesky sub (more than 30 are hunting!) and now she's in danger... 25 flt damage....ouch...

Tomorrow will be a decisive day...

He tried to lure my KB's CAP making several sweeps over Selroe (don't know if this is exactly kosher...) and he sent 100 4Es to bomb my troops there... can't see a reason if not to lure my CAP away...

We fought back all his unescorted bombers, destroying 30 of them for no loss... we hit a couple of mines but the PTs were pushed back by our CL/DDs.... for sure tomorrow the enemy cruisers will arrive...and we'll try to be ready to meet them...

Banzai!!! This was key. Now he effectively gains nothing for this move and suffered unacceptable losses. He will have to go back to the drawing board and come at you with more next time. End result - Significant Japanese operational victory.

So Brad lost his heart and didn't send his Cruisers against my landings...what a mistake! We managed to keep his PTs off and, a part from the hit against my CV yesterday (ouch!), the heavy air ASW kept them off.

We, again, repulsed the attacks of his unescorted bombers and we sent something like 350 bombers against the troops at Moa, while another BBs run pounded the place.

At the end of the day we had a regiment, an eng regiment and 2 tank regiments...we shock attacked and we obtain a clean victory! BANZAI! Timing was everything here...if i waited to gather more amphib ships, i would have probably lost the momentum (basically i only used xAKLs and PBs).

We had a modern CL damaged by his deaded B25 strafing...but she should make it

Now it's time to re-organize and lick our wounds. The KB will be reunited at Bab, while Kaga, ryuho and Tahio will get back to Japan for repairs and upgrades, while 1 CV and 3 CVLs will move back to the pacific.

Yes, it's an operational victory. I agree. losses were heavy but, for the moment, we managed to repulse him.

Now we don't have to lose concentration: Sumatra and Thailand are getting their badly needed renforcements. Kusiae and Ponape are getting theirs too, while we're slowly shrinking back to Bouganville and New Britain.

Banzai!!! This was key. Now he effectively gains nothing for this move and suffered unacceptable losses. He will have to go back to the drawing board and come at you with more next time. End result - Significant Japanese operational victory.

Yes, we lost some 4 CLs and 5 DDs...so not a walk in the park...but we pushed him back and delayed him...and that's was the only thing that matters

Banzai!!! This was key. Now he effectively gains nothing for this move and suffered unacceptable losses. He will have to go back to the drawing board and come at you with more next time. End result - Significant Japanese operational victory.

Yes, we lost some 4 CLs and 5 DDs...so not a walk in the park...but we pushed him back and delayed him...and that's was the only thing that matters

BANZAI!

Nicely played. This again will buy you a lot more time. As you say, now the other reinforcements can move ahead rather than having to send everything down here to eradicate this thorn.

Banzai!!!

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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

The KB is slowly retiring from the sub threat, back to safety waters, while the enemy, once again, sent his sweep to lure my CAP...this time against Moa, while enemy 4Es pounded the troops at Selroe. We are slowly regrouping and reforming our air groups. So far my air army has survived the fight for southern DEI and even managed to score some good hits.

In the Solomons, enemy transports are unloading at Thousands Ships Bay. 60 Tojos sweep from Munda, obtaining a 1:1 ratio against Corsairs and P-40s on LRCAP from Karaikira. Then 20 Nells took off, escorted by some 25 zeros and placed 2 torps on two different APAs... not bad.

Enemy BBs and CVs are lingering behind Ndeni, while more Netties and Kates are moved back to Rabaul and Bouganville.

Everything seems still in CENTPAC, with Brad not seeming to do anything important around Tabiutea. We'll use this precious time in order to build a strong defensive line around Kusiae, Ponape and Kwajalein, with Tarawa and Makin acting as wave-breakers

Some Artillery is being sent from China to the Kuriles, while at Sebang we're unloading 2 tank regiments that will give support to the garrison present there (already 1 reinforced division strong).

Ponape now finally has its Air HQ and, being a level 4 AF, can easily guest some decent offensive air power.

130k supplies are moving to Southern DEI, 160k to Singapore and Burma, while 50k supplies and 50k fuel are redirected to Truk in order to feed Rabaul and CENTPAC.

Yes, it was a good operational victory that you needed to win. But as an Allied player I would not be too concerned. QBall got off a bit lucky again as your carrier trap did not give you the best results. His losses in ground units was heavy but not anything that he can't easily replace. I think if I were him I would not be unhappy with the results. In scen 2, the Allies have to be patient and be satisfied with sinking enemy ships-which he has been doing.

The fact that he holds Darwin at this stage is going to be a thorn in your side as he is always posed to push into the DEI. Something you just can't afford to have him do in 1943.

But very good play on your half. I don't see where you could have done a better job. A little more luck and he would have had a minor disaster.

According to manual, maximum size of combat TF should be 15. With this amount of ships, it could be ugly, if they tried to clash with something bigger (lots of collisions, for start). Also, I am not sure, you should mix Japanese CAs, and BBs. They work different way (Big Guns vs Speed&Torpedoes), so one type is at disadvantage in such situations.

According to manual, maximum size of combat TF should be 15. With this amount of ships, it could be ugly, if they tried to clash with something bigger (lots of collisions, for start). Also, I am not sure, you should mix Japanese CAs, and BBs. They work different way (Big Guns vs Speed&Torpedoes), so one type is at disadvantage in such situations.

No, as I recall the maximum size of combat TF is 25 ships. 15 ships is the maximum where all can contribute AA to defense against air attack. After that AA is less efficient in that some ships can't fire or fire less or something.

According to manual, maximum size of combat TF should be 15. With this amount of ships, it could be ugly, if they tried to clash with something bigger (lots of collisions, for start). Also, I am not sure, you should mix Japanese CAs, and BBs. They work different way (Big Guns vs Speed&Torpedoes), so one type is at disadvantage in such situations.

No, as I recall the maximum size of combat TF is 25 ships. 15 ships is the maximum where all can contribute AA to defense against air attack. After that AA is less efficient in that some ships can't fire or fire less or something.

From section 6.2 in the manual:

Most TFs may contain a maximum of 25 ships (although 15 or less is most efficient for a combat TF) except for Escort and Transport TFs, which have a maximum of 100 ships. ASW and some other TFs are restricted to less than 25 ships.

Many experienced users have posted that there do seem to be more collisions and less efficiency in the TF even before you have over 15 ships. I have found that SCTFs with over 10 ships usually do not all engage during a combat. Some of the TF will almost always be out of position to fight. The manual hints at the size limitations and player experience expands a bit on where the game engine starts to apply penalties.

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I have not yet begun to fight! OTOH I have not yet begun to flee. Hmmmmm - choices, choices -always with the choices.

According to manual, maximum size of combat TF should be 15. With this amount of ships, it could be ugly, if they tried to clash with something bigger (lots of collisions, for start). Also, I am not sure, you should mix Japanese CAs, and BBs. They work different way (Big Guns vs Speed&Torpedoes), so one type is at disadvantage in such situations.

No, as I recall the maximum size of combat TF is 25 ships. 15 ships is the maximum where all can contribute AA to defense against air attack. After that AA is less efficient in that some ships can't fire or fire less or something.

From section 6.2 in the manual:

Most TFs may contain a maximum of 25 ships (although 15 or less is most efficient for a combat TF) except for Escort and Transport TFs, which have a maximum of 100 ships. ASW and some other TFs are restricted to less than 25 ships.

Many experienced users have posted that there do seem to be more collisions and less efficiency in the TF even before you have over 15 ships. I have found that SCTFs with over 10 ships usually do not all engage during a combat. Some of the TF will almost always be out of position to fight. The manual hints at the size limitations and player experience expands a bit on where the game engine starts to apply penalties.

One interesting thing I've been encountering lately is that Japanese DDs are less capable as the game goes on (losing 1/3 of their 12.7cm guns), and Allied ones much more capable. As a result larger TFs may be necessary from mid-43 onward, regardless of penalties. I've recently tried 3BB 7DD and got creamed by two TFs of 7-8 Fletchers each. I came back with only 2 DDs left and a BB needing yard time. Other examples were similar.

It all depends on what you're going to run into. Mixing CAs and BBs should make each other less efficient at their main strengths, but by mid-43 the CAs aren't going to hit much with long lances unless facing old BBs. Everything else the Allies have is too nimble. So I'm thinking this mix allows a lot of flexibility and more medium sized firepower, which is what is really needed against the modern US CLs and DDs. It would work best with the 30 knot BBs obviously.

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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

Sorry guys, been a huge week of costant non-stop working... we resumed the game tonight... 17th May 1943... We tried to ambush the APAs that were unloading at Thursday Island. 5 CVs went perfectly in place...7 hexes far... 100 planes had to sweep, followed by 120 LBA bombers and the power of 5 CVs... guess what? The CVs, despite perfect weather, didn't launch and only 20 Nells took off from Munda... we lost some 40 fighters due to his LRCAP of corsairs and sunk only 2 APDs and damaged an APA...already unloaded Now we will get back in the shades...

Enemy CVs are spotted moving from Townsville to Darwin... here we are again. The KB is regrouping and reloading unseen, while my air groups are filling their ranks

The 56th Inf Division is being moved to Bouganville, along with some artillery.

The P-47s are online!!! 50 of them swept Mandalay today for the first time, exchanging blows with my KI-44as and N1K1s... results were mixed...be bagged 15 of them in the air, plus 11 more due to ops losses, losing 34 planes and 9 pilots... i think i can hold my positions for the moment. Enemy units are advancing towards Katha... we're sending some reinforcements to that part of the theatre. 1 reinforced division, along with some artillery and tanks should be enough (hopefully).