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21 comments on “Black TEA”

This is a pathetic video. Sad part is he is not the only one dancing and doing the jig for the hypocritical, Republican/Rupert Murdoch financed “Tea Party”. The tune sounds like a rip off from “The Jeffersons” TV show. I’m wondering is there a real “Drop Squad” out there to pick his sorry behind up.

I-Ron-Y! The teabaggers are a regressive movement. Hasn’t the brother heard? Tom Tancredo wants to return to the halcyon days of white supremacy at the polls, and force people of his hue to take a literacy test before exercising their Constitutional right to vote.

Any black who aligns him- or herself to a movement that seeks to re-shackle his political aspirations, and goals, shouldn’t be singing about it, nor writing songs about it, but seeking psychological help. He’s clearly a victim of the Stockholm syndrome.

Hey Dre,
O.K., chalk this up as another issue I don’t understand. Are black people so monolithic and lock-step that any other opinion must be attacked viciously? If that’s the case, I’m glad I’m white where we just yell at each other over Christmas dinner.

Hey, thehc, I know you addressed your comments to Dre, but since your comments included all “black people,” I thought I’d help you with your understanding.

As I recall, it was whites that created this “racial pathology” in the first place, clearly evidenced by a brother who can jig at a gathering where one of the speakers advocate a return to “literacy tests,” as a qualification for voting.

It takes a special brand of white gall for you to attempt to make us feel guilty for calling out such behavior.

You should be the one who feel guilty for the historical and current environment that created this brother, but I’m betting you’re feeling nothing but self-righteousness. You know, the kind that allowed you say that our attacks were “vicious.”

No, the white racist, privileged environment, in which this brother lives, is what is vicious. And drop the sanctimony, we both know that whites don’t just “yell at each other over Christmas dinner.” You’re as inclined as anyone to savagely kill over the slightest misunderstanding. So keep your supposed civilized behavior to yourself. We all know that’s a bunch of crock.

Wow BTM,
I don’t know where to begin on all the assumptions you made about me without knowing me in the least. But I’ll try.

1)I work at a major Liberal University and I have heard all the spins on “racial pathology”. I’ve read Cornell West and his systemic racism argument and I have to wonder if your still living in 1970. Have you heard? We have a black president, multiple black representatives, black mayors, black professionals, etc. Is racism dead? No. But the idea that we (white people)are all-controlling is ridiculous. I watched the video, which we were addressing, and I have no idea where you came up with the “literacy tests” for voting. I would caution you against falling for the fear-mongering of ideologues who want you to believe that any disagreement means white people want to put you back into slavery or reinstituting Jim Crow laws.

1)As far as my “special brand of white gall”-I’ve been accused of having gall before, but I was unaware that it was colored white. Is it so wrong for me to question why black people can’t have a conservative opinion? I thought freedom meant the right to express yourself no matter who agrees or disagrees.

3) The only guilt I feel is that people like you would associate me with horrible people that would commit such crimes. You know, like when people judge you based on your skin color or because some other black person treated them wrong and then dislike you without even knowing you. You can’t have it both ways, BTM. You want to be judged on your own character and actions but you want to associate me with people I neither know or agree with. Convenient for you, but hardly fair.

4)”Vicious” is my opinion of the verbage I read. Am I not allowed to have an opinion even when you seem to have a boatload about me? If that’s self-righteous, how is your entire comment not?

5)”yell(ing) at each other over Christmas dinner.” was an attempt by me at levity. If you knew me better you would know it’s my way of letting people know I don’t take myself all that seriously. As far as my being as “inclined as anyone to savagely kill over the slightest misunderstanding. So keep your supposed civilized behavior to yourself. We all know that’s a bunch of crock.” You may have stetched my logic as far as it will go on that one. I’ve disagreed with everyone on this site at some point, and I would hope everyone here understands that I respect all opinions, even yours. I can assure you, I preach understanding one another, not attacking one another. Unless your once again judging me by the color of my skin and associating me as if all white people are the same and have the same privileges and opinions. BTW, I grew up dirt poor and went to a nearly all black school on Flint’s north end.

You seem intelligent. I would hope you’d take the time to actually get to know me before you pass so many judgments on me. If you truly want to be judged fairly. Please be consistent yourself.

Leave it up to another race-baiter to deflect attention from the real issues. Has it ever occured to you that this guy is simply showing his support for a movement designed SOLELY to hold our elected officials fiscally accountable. The government continually fails its citizens, wastes our money on nonsense, and has zero accountability. To protest that is no different than protesting ANYTHING liberals have during the Bush years. So suddenly a black person not drinking the Kool Aid is some kind of sellout? Wow!

Andre, I’ll remember that the next time you preach to me about how not all black people think the same. Apparently, the minute one DOES hold a belief which conflicts with what the Dumb-ocrats say, he’s worthy of being excoriated.

For me the real issue is this: Did this Teabagger movement invite Tom Tancredo to speak before them, and did he not suggest that this country return to the use of a “literacy test?”

This was Jim Crow at one of its worst. Of course, it’s not important to you: You’re white.

This movement could advocate a chicken in every pot, but if it also looks wistfully backward to a time gone by, and wish to re-institute Jim Crow, then, I’m not going to lend it my support, no matter what you claim is their “sole” design.

He’s not a “sellout.” He’s sick. He’s reacting to a viral infection in the political and social atmosphere called racism.

If we don’t isolate him, he’ll infect others. Why do I get the feeling that that possibility would keep you grinning for a lifetime.

What are you now threatening? You want to impeach Andre’s previous remarks, by using this one instance. That makes you intellectually dishonest, not him, that makes you polemically weak, not him.

You’ve got any more tricks up your sleeve that I haven’t seen before?

I doubt it.

You’re too vested in the talking points on the Right to offer anything original, or innovative.

Oh, one last thing: “Dumb-ocrat”? Is that the same as calling Republicans Repugnicants?

“But the idea that we (white people)are all-controlling is ridiculous.”

You raised this strawman, and proceeded to destroy it. Stay with the argument at hand. You don’t have to veer from it to score cheap points.

And for the record, this post-racial America to which you so proudly point, has created the likes of the Teabagger movement, and it’s regressive message, Birthers who insist the president is not certified American, and an explosion of hate groups.

Are you saying I shouldn’t note these advances, along with those that you mentioned?

I watched the Tancredo video as well. Perhaps you watched a whitewashed version. Tancredo clearly suggests a return to “literacy testing,” and if you saw something else, then you need a new eyeglass prescription.

I must remind you: The only fear-mongering ideologues I encounter are from the Right. Further, I don’t see all disagreements between whites and blacks as a call for turning the clock backward, but I’m not so naive as to think that that is not the aspirations of some.

You have indulged so many strawmen to misrepresent, and elicit guilt and, perhaps, a polemic edge, that it blunts your real argument and defense, to wit:

1)As far as my “special brand of white gall”-I’ve been accused of having gall before, but I was unaware that it was colored white.

3) The only guilt I feel is that people like you would associate me with horrible people that would commit such crimes.

4)”Vicious” is my opinion of the verbage I read. Am I not allowed to have an opinion even when you seem to have a boatload about me?

5)”yell(ing) at each other over Christmas dinner.” was an attempt by me at levity. If you knew me better you would know it’s my way of letting people know I don’t take myself all that seriously. As far as my being as “inclined as anyone to savagely kill over the slightest misunderstanding.

All the statements above failed on several levels. Either misrepresented the context, or suggested something never stated. You’re good at that. But it weakens your argument, since it argues positions I never advanced.

And your attempt to elicit sympathy in an argument is in vain. What does the following have to do with the issues under discussion?

“BTW, I grew up dirt poor and went to a nearly all black school on Flint’s north end.”

“You seem intelligent. I would hope you’d take the time to actually get to know me before you pass so many judgments on me. If you truly want to be judged fairly. Please be consistent yourself.”

More of the same. Why bring up my “intelligence” at all? It’s irrelevant to this discussion. And stop with the moralizing. You stepped out of bound with your remarks. Take credit for them, and support them, without resorting to polemic slight of hand, misrepresentation, pandering, or appealing to guilt, or invoking sympathy.

Pointless. I took Logic 101 too (it was Philosophy 101 @ *my* school). Calling somebody out on their argumentative skills whilst @ the same time attempting to overintellectualize your opponent? Really? On the internet? Cli-bloody-che’. Christ, I don’t even side w/ these guys (ZOMG soshulizt!). Using certain argumentative techniques to not illustrate your point, but rather degrade your opponent isn’t just silly, but arrogant too. Attack the argument, not the method. Just sayin’.

The only point is that utilizing the style over substance fallacy in an argument always leads to failure. I know, I’ve used it myself in the past, arrogantly so, as it’s surprisingly not all that difficult to drown your opponent in intelligence. But in the end, the argument remains largely unaddressed, & thus the fallacy rears it’s head as failure. The end.

@BTM,
Sorry it ttok so long to respond, I had back surgery Tuesday morning and this is the first time I’ve been out of bed.
To address your points;
“But the idea that we (white people)are all-controlling is ridiculous.”

“You raised this strawman, and proceeded to destroy it. Stay with the argument at hand. You don’t have to veer from it to score cheap points.”

How is that a “strawman”? You took my answers out of order in an attempt to make it seem I was responding to another part, but I was responding to your statement that “You should be the one who feel guilty for the historical and current environment that created this brother” I have no control, I work in a damn mailroom for God’s sake.

The “argument at hand” IMO is whether this man has the right to disagree with you and your ilk that believe that running up our debt and throwing money at the problem is the answer. So let’s stick to that. Was Tom Tancredo even in this video? Talk about a “strawman”. Why not throw in Hitler or the Klan?

“And for the record, this post-racial America to which you so proudly point, has created the likes of the Teabagger movement, and it’s regressive message, Birthers who insist the president is not certified American, and an explosion of hate groups.”

Am I proud that this country elected a man who is in the 13% minority to be president? Am I proud that we are moving to a more racial diverse power structure? Your damn straight I am. Do I also believe that you will never credit my race for any advancement and diminish any advancement that we make at every opportunity? Obviously. The Birthers are just another fringe group not unlike the nuts who believe that the U.S. purposely blew up the WTC. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how obsurd, as long as they don’t DIRECTLY call for violence against someone.

“I must remind you: The only fear-mongering ideologues I encounter are from the Right. Further, I don’t see all disagreements between whites and blacks as a call for turning the clock backward, but I’m not so naive as to think that that is not the aspirations of some.”

If that’s the only fear-mongering idealogues that you encounter, you need to expand your media. Have you never watched a Michael Moore movie or listened to Keith Oberman? The notion that fearmongering is the exclusive domain of the right is ridiculous.

“And your attempt to elicit sympathy in an argument is in vain. What does the following have to do with the issues under discussion?

“BTW, I grew up dirt poor and went to a nearly all black school on Flint’s north end.”

You brought in “white priviledge”, I was simply responding that not all whites enjoy it. Although I’m sure that no matter the sad situation of any white person, they will always be “priviledged” in your eyes. This is an argument I’ll never understand so don’t waste your time.

More of the same. Why bring up my “intelligence”

It was an attempt to keep the conversation civil, nothing more.

BTW, you accuse Nic of name-calling but refer to me as an “underdog” that needs rescuing-that does seem arrogant. Note that I never called you any names.

The point I believe your missing BTM, is that it’s not right to stereotype (and yes, that’s what your doing) tea-partiers, white people, me, or anyone else. Do you understand how easy it is for your side to slip someone in front of a camera at a Tea Party event with a racist sign and then paint them all with that brush? That’s a tactic that is commonly used against blacks, advocacy groups and yes, Republicans and conservatives. The big difference I see between me and you (and you can degrade it as self-righteous, arrogant or moralist if you want) is that I think it’s wrong when ANYONE does it. One Tea Partier doesn’t represent all of them any more than one black man represents all black men. If you can’t see the hypocracy of supporting and then opposing stereotyping based on some caveat you carve out for yourself, then any further argument is pointless-enjoy your life.

I guess I don’t get the point. There certainly exist a ton of black republicans, & I pass by a crowd of the tea-diots (I just made that up! Do I get points?) @ the Capitol in Lansing nearly everyday that definitely consist of a number of non-whites, so I don’t see how anybody can be possibly be surprised @ the fact that white people aren’t the only stupid people in the world.

“The “argument at hand” IMO is whether this man has the right to disagree with you and your ilk ”

I and my “ilk” can handle disagreement, but we reserve the right to question the behavior of any black man that aligns himself with a group that’s as remarkable for its lack of racial diversity, as the guests that it invites as speakers to its functions.

Tom Tancredo is anti-immigrant, and from his latest address before Tea Partiers, regressive, as well. Do you deny that he strongly suggested the reinstatement of “literacy tests”?

And, if you feel that you have the right to tell blacks how to respond to the racial perceptions in our midst, then your paternalism is showing. You have no such right.

“Am I proud that we are moving to a more racial diverse power structure? Your damn straight I am. Do I also believe that you will never credit my race for any advancement and diminish any advancement that we make at every opportunity? Obviously.”

Should meth addicts be proud of throwing off the yoke of an addiction that they should never have borne? But you’re wrong, on this one note: I won’t credit your race for doing the “right thing,” but acknowledge that progress is being made, and has been made.

“Have you never watched a Michael Moore movie or listened to Keith Oberman? The notion that fearmongering is the exclusive domain of the right is ridiculous.”

***SMH***

If you lump Michael Moore, and Keith Olbermann in the same pantheon of “fearmongers,” such as Rush Limbaugh, then your perception of reality is more skewed than I thought. Next to Rush, Keith’s a milquetoast.

“You brought in “white priviledge”, I was simply responding that not all whites enjoy it. Although I’m sure that no matter the sad situation of any white person, they will always be “priviledged” in your eyes. This is an argument I’ll never understand so don’t waste your time.”

I won’t. You’re snow blind. You can’t see it, because it would put the lie to what you wish to believe, that privilege in this country is pervasive and not belonging primarily to any one group.

I’m not a miracle worker. I can’t heal blindness.

“It was an attempt to keep the conversation civil, nothing more.”

I don’t think the conversation was lacking “civility.” Nothing was served by your referencing my intelligence. I assume all are intelligent. Why wouldn’t I?

“The point I believe your missing BTM, is that it’s not right to stereotype (and yes, that’s what your doing) tea-partiers, white people, me, or anyone else.”

Don’t you find your statement a bit hyperbolic? I question the intentions of any group that invites Tom Tancredo to speak before it. He’s divisive and regressive.

“then any further argument is pointless-enjoy your life.”

I think you’re right on the “pointless” aspect of this debate, but not for the reasons you stated. You’ve made up your mind as to how things are, and that mindset will color many of your experiences, and the progress of this debate. There’s nothing the two of us can learn from the other.

That doesn’t make you wrong, and me right, nor you right and me wrong. It merely says we’re polar opposites, and that a meeting of the mind, if possible, would require a more intense interchange than either of us are willing to give the process.

I have always enjoyed life. I can think of no place where life could go better than here on Gaia.

Thanks BTM, it’s getting better,
Despite our disagreements, I do respect your opinion and your right to have it. The main reason I love coming to this site (besides Andre’s brilliant writing and insight) is to hear another opinion from people that have a different life experience than myself. What I fear the most about race discussions (and frankly, most right/left discussions) is that we all have a tendency to live in an echo chamber and that we get our opinions from only one side. I know you believe that I’m incapable of understanding your POV, but you have to admit that my willingness to engage you in an environment that’s out of my own echo chamber is at least an attempt to better understand. I feel I have benefited from our debate, and I will consider your points. At the University where I work, I watch as every day our Professors re-enforce opinions that they already have. Every book that they order, every movie that they watch, every forum that they attend is from one side and one side only. I’m determined to not be that person. Media manipulation was supposed to be my main point in my original comment, I was hoping to draw someone into a discussion on whether the Tea Party movement is truly racist or is this just the left-wing media attempt to paint them that way. I’ve talked to a lot of my white friends who advocate for the Tea Partiers, and while I would be lying if I said race NEVER comes up, (mostly from their belief that President Obama doesn’t care about average white people’s problems) it’s really not the focus of their concerns. These are basically the same people who supported Ross Perot for all the same reasons. (I.E. debt, out-of-control spending) I would caution anyone from believing that this is all about race. Again, thanks for the discussion. I look forward to our next debate.

What’s up party people?! Sorry I haven’t been around to address the questions/comments raised. But let me say that I’ve enjoyed following the discussion when I can.

Let me also concede to an important point: when it comes to examining and discussing race, I openly admit that we (black folks) can’t be so quick to chalk every attack on our sensibility up as some kind of racist gesture. If we’re not careful, we’ll go around crying wolf when really all that stands in front of us is a little kitty cat. But this isn’t one of those times.

Tom Tancredo – in so many words – told his tea party friends that a “socialist ideologue” got into “their” White House, is destroying “their” country, and that the only solution was to revive an old school racist methodology from the Jim Crow era. Even when I’ve been willing to give the dude the benefit of the doubt, he STILL hasn’t clarified what he meant. His comments were then met with a rousing applause from the crowd. Meanwhile, a black man – who more than likely would be prohibited from voting if Tancredo had his way – is now offering up a sacred prize to the movement: its anthem. If that doesn’t slap of irony, I don’t know what does.

Teabaggers complain that any white person who is critical of Obama and his policies is automatically deemed racist. Likewise, people claim that whenever a black person endorses conservatism, he/she is a sellout. Not so. I don’t believe black people should monolithically subscribe to one way of thinking…and this should also include our differences in political ideology. But the undeniable racial animosity, the vitriol, the personalities, the ongoing threats of violence, and – more recently – Tancredo’s comments point out something much more nefarious than oppostion to Obama’s fiscal policy.

Hey Dre,
I’m sorry to report that your not going to be able to get rid of me. I guess your just going to have to put up with me invading your site and prodding your peeps into uncomfortable conversations. Thankfully, your site is full of people willing to give me a chance and in some instances, teach me a little something.

Now, on to your points.

Tom Tancredo is an ass. Can we all agree on that? I say we call him out and hopefully the voters will eject him from office. Nothing more.

However, I believe this whole discussion is a Red Herring. What we should really be discussing is our debt, our spending and the future of this country. I don’t have a clue as to why Tea Partiers would applaud such a stupid statement by T.T.. But I do wonder how many actually appluaded (it wouldn’t be the first time a video was doctored) and if they thought they were appluading a return to tradition values (family, self reliance, pride in country, etc.) not not a return to horrible segregationalism. As soon as I get off this God-awful dial-up I’ll check it out. I find it even more interesting that the Republican party is making such an effort to co-op the Tea Partiers. Are they afraid of a re-play of Ross Perot? In the words of Sarah Plain-“You betcha.”