308 factory ammo can be loaded quite "warm" at times (most are loaded with ball powders...which can be very temperature sensitive, they may work fine in cool weather then be a whole different monster on a hot day)

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

October 12, 2008, 09:03 PM

Yeah, that's a good discussion; thanks. It pretty much confirmed my understanding. A mild .308 load (if such a thing exists short of a handload) will be well within the margin of safety that *I* am comfortable with. Maybe those reduced recoil loads would be just the ticket.... Edit: Ha ha, you two guys posted as I was typing, with the same idea - managed recoil loads. :p In fact, the more I think of it, the more I think those M-R loads would be awesome for the kind of stuff I hunt - interesting...

BullpupBen

October 12, 2008, 09:10 PM

This thread is just what I've been looking for.

I have an old Israeli Mauser in 7.62 NATO which I have yet to fire. They guy I bought it from said he fired it and it was fine (but with what ammo I have no idea). I have a box of Wolf .308, do you guys think it is pretty safe to fire the Wolf ammo or should I go for one of these reduced recoil loads?

Edit to add: According to Wikipedia, 7.62 NATO should push a 146 gr round at 2750 fps, which is only slightly less than Wolf's claim of a 150 gr bullet at 1800 fps. This seems like a negligible difference to me, or am I totally wrong?

Jim Watson

October 12, 2008, 09:16 PM

Shoot the "managed recoil" stuff, assuming you do not handload.

The above links perpetuate the misconception that the .308 Winchester is loaded appreciably hotter than 7.62 military. That is not so. The US mil-spec for 7.62 is 50,000 psi MEASURED IN A CRUSHER GUN. The US Army is not a member of SAAMI and does not use the "CUP" term for crusher gun readings.
Original .308 Winchester pressure spec was 52,000 psi MEASURED IN A CRUSHER GUN before SAAMI adopted the "CUP" term to differentiate between crusher and piezeoelectric gauges.
There is commonly 2000 psi/CUP difference in different lots or even individual rounds of ammunition.

The only real hangup is the longer chamber headspace of the 7.62, meant to accept low grade wartime ammunition in hot dirty automatic weapons. That could give trouble when reloading .308 brass shot in a 7.62 gun. IF you set the shoulder back all the way.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

October 12, 2008, 09:18 PM

That Federal M-R load gets close to the 170 gr .30-30 Win - and that's a well-proven load for sure.

BullpupBen

October 12, 2008, 09:36 PM

Shoot the "managed recoil" stuff, assuming you do not handload.

The above links perpetuate the misconception that the .308 Winchester is loaded appreciably hotter than 7.62 military. That is not so. The US mil-spec for 7.62 is 50,000 psi MEASURED IN A CRUSHER GUN. The US Army is not a member of SAAMI and does not use the "CUP" term for crusher gun readings.
Original .308 Winchester pressure spec was 52,000 psi MEASURED IN A CRUSHER GUN before SAAMI adopted the "CUP" term to differentiate between crusher and piezeoelectric gauges.
There is commonly 2000 psi/CUP difference in different lots or even individual rounds of ammunition.

The only real hangup is the longer chamber headspace of the 7.62, meant to accept low grade wartime ammunition in hot dirty automatic weapons. That could give trouble when reloading .308 brass shot in a 7.62 gun. IF you set the shoulder back all the way.

Pretty good, except he thinks there is 2000 pounds in a ton.
British specs use the long ton of 2240 pounds. So proof pressure was ca 65kpsi, a conventional 30% overload for a 50kpsi round.

USSR

October 13, 2008, 09:31 AM

The above links perpetuate the misconception that the .308 Winchester is loaded appreciably hotter than 7.62 military. That is not so. The US mil-spec for 7.62 is 50,000 psi MEASURED IN A CRUSHER GUN. The US Army is not a member of SAAMI and does not use the "CUP" term for crusher gun readings.
Original .308 Winchester pressure spec was 52,000 psi MEASURED IN A CRUSHER GUN before SAAMI adopted the "CUP" term to differentiate between crusher and piezeoelectric gauges.

+1. Guys see the gov't specs for 7.62x51 listed at 50,000 psi and ASSUME that it correlates to SAAMI's 62,000 psi specs for the .308 Winchester. It does not, for the reason that Jim mentions.

Don

BullpupBen

October 13, 2008, 11:25 AM

All right then, I'll be putting .308 through my Mauser.

But I'm blaming you guys if I get blown up! :D

TEDDY

October 18, 2008, 02:30 PM

I read JIMS post as the two are equal.that win is not hotter than nato??????:uhoh::confused::confused::confused:

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

October 18, 2008, 02:50 PM

That's the way I read Jim's post as well, and I do believe that Jim knows well of what he speaks, to say the least.

In another contemporaneous thread on Ishapore 2As and .308 Win, it was stated by someone that about the ONLY thing you don't want to do is load *hot* .308 win loads INTO 7.62x51mm cases - the latter cases being smaller internally due to thicker case walls - this can dramatically spike the pressure. I think I'll try standard .308 win loads after I get it checked for headspace.

woof

October 18, 2008, 03:11 PM

I have a 40+ year old Winchester 88 in .308 that I hunt whitetails with. I started using MR loads for a youngster to shoot, but am so impressed with their performance and accuracy that they are all I use now.