It's always a feather in your cap when you see banned players make their home elsewhere as they are degrading the value of other sites instead. Validity outweighs activity. We can always do more to showcase our talent but the noise of the crowd shouldn't dictate how everything should be gone about. If we didn't enjoy submitting thousands of stats, there wouldn't be a TSC.

There isn't much I could say that hasn't been said by others already, but I generally agree with Ring Rush. For me this is just a fun place to see how I compare to others at playing Sonic games and watch videos from people who are way better at them than me, and any social interaction on the forums is just icing on the cake, and I think it would be a shame for the site to get completely blammed just because the community aspect of it isn't as strong as it used to be. My thanks to Thorn and Paraxade for their hard work on behalf of the site and best of luck to them.

I'm also with RingRush here. I joined the site pretty late so the community was already "dead", yet the stats are what's keeping me coming back here. While I mostly care about times, it is nice to be a high ranking in the "overall" chart. So I've been doing some ring and score attacks here and there, and to some extent enjoyed them, which I never expected.

The colour system is definetly nice. It's an easy way to tell which of your stats might not quite be up to par, or which ones stand out as amazing (I still have that 1 orange time in Unleashed that's taunting me... need to make it all red again), and I have yet to see that on any other stat site. Could just go for a "top 10" or whatever, but that's not affected by the amount of players on the chart, so it's not quite as significant.

I see no reason to kill off the site until there's actually nobody left who cares about the stats

TSC doesn't need a specialized community to be worth existing. It is just a fun place to track stats because of interesting motivators like the color system, sitewide/game points, and an unrivaled depth of historical times to continually climb the ranks. Speedrun.com is just a personality-less list of times, and if you want to speed up the death of IL competition switching over is one surefire way to do it.

I agree with this 100%, the only reason I even come back is to see what's new in the competitive Sonic gaming community as far as records go, and every now & then set a few of my own. (mostly Sonic Rush RA, working on getting TSCs leadership in rings for that game.) I don't come back to spend time with friends on the forum, (lol I have none, so yeah) I come back to see what new records have been set & find out about new leaders & champions.

One other thing I'll say, I don't like to think ILs are dead cuz there are still people that do ILs, that's all I do, because I don't have the capability of doing a full game speed run, and I like to think about what's possible in a single level, not how quickly I can beat an entire game. I also like the color ranking system with the leaderboards, it really gives off that heir of accomplishment. It makes TSC stand out among other competition sites that just have leaderboards & stats.

This is just a thought, but why don't we make a new chart for each game for full-game speed runs, since from what I understand, that's where Sonic speed running is headed. Is that asking too much?

TSC is, first and foremost, a site that hosts charts and forums. It also has an IRC channel.

Quote from: Hypersonic7701

We DO, however, need a community, especially in a time like this.

That's why you abandon the "community" for not receiving a petty title, instead of trying to keep Race Nights alive;One of the biggest community activities TSC had to offer, I might add.

Quote from: Hypersonic7701

We need people that give a damn to fix the site.

We talked about this before. If anything, we need to give Gerbil and the others in power an incentive to fix the site for us, nobody else has the power to. Which means the only thing you could do is maybe organize a flash mob and force Gerbil to fix shit? Stir up a ruckus again and destroy the site before it gets fixed again?

Quote from: Hypersonic7701

It's sub 200 last I checked, and the average has been 200-300 for some time, barring temporary factors. I don't think that's much at all; we pulled at least double that years ago, and considering I also tend to see the same faces on new stats most of the time, it's pretty damn bleak.

My first point: This is a site for leaderboards. The site has a ton of people that dont even talk on TSC itself, most people just submit stats and maybe glance at the forums. The forums most of the time maybe have 20-30 different people posting in a month; Most likely not at the same time, either. There's just no basic community in the first place, so how would you magically make one appear? TSC, especially after the whole Race Nights shenanigans, is even more split than before. There's more activity in those split groups than there is on TSC itself.

Quote from: Hypersonic7701

Consider this a call out to every single competitor out there. If you still give a damn, then don't make excuses all day and act like it. I don't care if you're dying tomorrow; if you really care enough, you'll make time and show it. Show the admins you still care and maybe they'll start caring more too.

You do not need excuses to not speedrun. How about you stop telling us to care about TSC, after you abandoned pretty much every responsibility you had on here, not showing up for 4 of the games you had planned for the "failure" of a marathon, cheating/bullshitting the first time you got here, etc. etc. etc.

The whole point is WE can not get ANYTHING done unless we have the support of the higher ups; It's that simple. That's the whole point i've been trying to make this entire time. Especially now with all the power basically centered around GerbilSoft, unless the TSC staff gets more people involved with the drive and the skills to change the site, it will just not happen.

On top of that, we shouldn't even be posting in this thread anymore. If you so desperately want to improve TSC, make a new thread that doesn't keep dragging Thorn's resignation into the dirt. I, for one, don't care if you keep using this thread, but it's far and beyond gone past just being about the administrator title change.

As I have said before, the title very well could have had additional meaning, such as designated, reliable racers, or if the races were hosted here instead of on SRL, where some of our rules could be better enforced, and then moderation would have some actual meaning.

Instead, it never meant much, but it did give enough of a reason to encourage people to race, to be there as often as I possibly could, basically to give a shit.

So the title is meaningless, but still makes you give a shit? I think we had this one before; Maybe you should stop contradicting yourself within 2 paragraphs.

Quote from: Hypersonic7701

I'm not asking for a mob, and I'm not asking for Gerbil to force anything. Only a collective effort will be inspiring enough to get the site upgrades we've been waiting for.

Then what will show the effort that you need? A lot of people submitting stats? I am just asking because, as far as I am concerned, all we need is a stable communication line to our headadmin/coder that he could always be spoken to. Maybe that's asking for too much, but if we can't even talk to the guy who is supposed to update/fix our things, the greatest effort will be made naught.

Quote from: Hypersonic7701

It's the people behind the stats that have been here, past and present, that made TSC what it is today, with impacts big or small. It's all of us, a basic community of Sonic lovers that want to take Sonic gaming to a new level, a level that extends replayability, that have guided this site to this point.

You can't then tell me there's no community, because whether we admit it or not, by coming here we secretly want to connect with others that share the same interests to any extent.

I am not telling you that there's no community or whatever, but most of TSC's stats are made by people who don't even compete anymore, let alone even visit the site. There is most of the times maybe 5 or 6 people that even voice an opinion, and the rest are people that don't visit TSC for talking or hanging out with other people. That's where they go to SRL, since it's actual live competition, instead of a "Hey you beat my stat give me a week or so to beat it back" thing. You know, the place where we host the Race Nights? Do you even remember that when we actually wanted to move it back to TSC, people were afraid of losing most of their racers? Because that's why the first thing I quoted makes even less sense; since it was an option that wasn't taken by the other Race Nights participants and yours truly .

Quote from: Hypersonic7701

Sure, I'm not perfect. I never claimed to be. I've made bad decisions in the past. I've come a long way. I learned quite a bit about many of the people here, past and present. Maybe I'm not the best person to be calling out people, I'll believe that. Somebody has to, though.

I do think that you're quite full of it, mostly because you say you want a community and competition, but the last 2 times that happened you got angry at those people, banned them from your twitch streams and pretty much did a lot of other passive-aggressive things to them.Like when Thorn got some easy points in Sonic 4 and you got all mad on stream at him and banned him, because he held the penultimate spot for another day. A single. Extra. Day. You did make up after that, but it was still pretty harsh.

Which pretty much means, you, yourself, cannot take a kick in the ass and not go off on people if it happens. So yes, I do think that you're the wrong person to call people out on that, because even the most passion you have will not help the reputation that you have gained yourself.

Quote from: Hypersonic7701

Uh, no. This topic is still very much relevant, since it concerns many of the same issues extended from Thorn's "direct post". As far as I'm concerned, this topic should not be swept under the rug, because it's still a reminder that something big happened, and because the topic is still an extension from said post

I am just saying that you should make a new topic to inspire people as you will, instead of having us just rip apart this thread in terms of what it's about. Because originally, it was supposed to be about Thorn's resignation and people saying goodbye, instead of saying "HEY YOU'RE LEAVING? GREAT, TAKE TSC's PROBLEMS WITH YOU PLEASE". This isn't supposed to be an All-You-Can-Bitch-Buffet.

Yeah, this topic is so great because so many people have meaningful things to say.NOT.

Troll competition is still competition; You got what you wanted, which is someone submitting stats that he didnt have before. It's not like he concealed them either, he got them fresh and steaming. And it was, DIRECT, competition in a game that you had a championship in, where he even beat one of your stats.

Same happened when he took back knuckles chaotix special, by the way, the second time you got angry at him daring to challenge your climb upwards.

Also this whole title thing is already too stupid, because you saying "oh you didnt read it correctly tehehehe" doesn't actually undo what i said.

And you have repeatedly said that titles both do not mean much, but are worth going for, which i still don't quite understand. Seeing as that, apparently, was your sole motivation of doing anything that was relevant to Race Nights.

And I'd hate to give any more direct examples of you being a jerk to people, especially to FF, but I'll say something else instead.Remember the time when you "cleaned up" the race nights skype group? A week before you kicked some people, you acted like a complete fucking idiot together with them, saying shit like "no u" over and over and over again. Which was so annoying it led to me leaving the group, and eventually, you kicking them out of the group because of complaints, even though you joined in on it and pretty much killed all the sense in the group with the other ones. And because of your position you get to stay even though you were just as much at fault for that.

guys! chill!... lol, in the end its just video games, stream, Skype, the stupid twitter. its all pretty meaningless. I mean its important to have strong competition, but not to go so aggressively at each others throats.

If you really hate someone on this site, do what I do, beat their records. ^^

no one here should really hate each other personally, not many people here know each other personally. irl most everyone here is pretty cool, if you get to know them. I.E. I thought/was convinced I would HATE Parax IRL, but I didn't, he was kool with me, didn't get to talk to him much but, there was a feeling of respect between us. (at least for me)

guys! chill!... lol, in the end its just video games, stream, Skype, the stupid twitter. its all pretty meaningless. I mean its important to have strong competition, but not to go so aggressively at each others throats.

If you really hate someone on this site, do what I do, beat their records. ^^

no one here should really hate each other personally, not many people here know each other personally. irl most everyone here is pretty cool, if you get to know them. I.E. I thought/was convinced I would HATE Parax IRL, but I didn't, he was kool with me, didn't get to talk to him much but, there was a feeling of respect between us. (at least for me)

keep in mind we all share the same passion - Sonic

Hey guys I think you were too busy angrily typing on your keyboards at each other to see this message. I suppose now you're gonna tell me to shut up & mind my own business, am I right, since I have nothing to do with your little flame war here?

For all the talk about Race Night nonsense, it seems the arguers have forgotten that the guy who supposedly sentenced it and the site and everything else to death is no longer a TSC admin. Everybody is perfectly free to just ask the current admins to undo my decision; Race Night mods get their titles back, law and order is restored, and everything goes back to the sweet perfection it was before my meddling. That'd fix one of the points of argument, right?

I have personal beef with some other things that have been said in this topic, but I've aired more than enough dirty laundry at this point so I'll let those things stand as true even if I know or believe them to be false. Correcting them or inserting my opinion would probably just egg on more drama. I do urge readers not to take everything said in this topic at face value, though, and to remember that every poster has an agenda.

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<RPGnutter> Well I think your reasoning was dumb, so you get sassed<RPGnutter> Thats how it works

^ Flying Fox is only one admin out of three. Her having an objection is not a total bar to you getting things back to how they were, since getting the other two admins to agree would cause her to be overruled. "Literally impossible" is far from the truth, so I suggest that you stop focusing on Flying Fox and start focusing on how to get what you think is best for the site. After all, I'm sure you've noticed that the cavalcade of shit posts from her boyfriend usually come after your post contains a remark at her expense or at the expense of something she's organizing, so the way to avoid them altogether would be to stop chewing her out as an individual while you're saying you want to fix a site-wide problem.

I'm suggesting the possibility because comments such as

Quote from: Hypersonic7701

Nah, look. I disagreed with the proposed "solution", because in my own view, I believed that it would not get far (how's that going, btw? no races yet? k).

are being made, so clearly the current situation is considered to be worse than the old one. Even if you think this should have been done "long ago", TSC's always been about things that should have been done long in the past—often years too late—so this seems to just be one more of those things. A month passing is not a problem.

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<RPGnutter> Well I think your reasoning was dumb, so you get sassed<RPGnutter> Thats how it works

Get real. I've always been mad at people myself and acted without a reason to "defend" anyone. I just find it stupid that literally no one else ever speaks up that isn't You, Thorn, or someone that wants this to end. Especially when you make large posts as if you want to publish a goddamn book.

Nobody is expecting you to make up, by the way. I would actually prefer it if you guys kept away from each other, especially since your way of getting back at her for a Race Night and other small problems is kicking her out and trying to get her admin taken away from her; I feel like you knew problems like that would arise again, seeing as she was the reason you originally quit Race Nights, right?

That means you are person everyone can rely on because you held your end of the bargain and you don't do stupid things without reason yourself, correct? Unlike the time where you did petty little things like being mad at FF for "her sake" when she submitted to ESA? Or when you disliked a bunch of her ~competition~ Sonic CD 11 youtube videos? Or the time when Bilan made a joke post and you couldn't take it and changed it to "I am retarded".

There's been a lot of stupid actions between you and FF, and I feel like if she had been any other person you wouldn't have done that and instead tried to argue about a solution instead. Like if it had been me we wouldve had a stupid lengthy discussion like this that would at some point end. Or not. And then the solution would be one of us had to go. And in the end that decision was made by the admins.

And seeing as you want to desperately hang onto this thread, I'll just make a new one to gather whatever people think needs to be done, since i doubt they will even respond to this topic with anything that isn't "stop flinging shit around".

Great, now Thorn has joined the battle… is there any point to this? Seriously why does this keep getting dragged on, so you can continue to try and prove you're right about something absolutely pointless?

Did you forget that you're no longer a Brosideon? Do you want that status to be changed to banned? Stop before you hurt yourself again. There's no reason to get caught up in a site where there's drama on a daily basis. You'll just confuse yourself if you even bother. I don't want you to become a user in hiding for reasons of regret (almost like you're forcing yourself to go to Tony levels of offline). In all honesty, I don't want to lose you, Hyper. (Even if you do let small things get the better of yourself)

This will be my absolute final post on TSC's forums unless there is something so important that I would need to post. I'm sorry guys, but I've had enough of the constant drama that goes on in these boards. Every time I open this I regret looking at it. There's maybe a few topics from back in 2008 or something that were light-hearted and in the spirit of what I see as TSC, but there are too many topics cluttering the forums that are filled with negativity and spite. I already have enough of that in my life as is, I don't want it on a site I usually look (or rather now, looked) toward for enjoyment and happiness.

With this, I'm leaving the forums and I will not submit unless I dearly have to (aka Liam begs me to). Until these "issues" with the site are "fixed", I can't take being here and watching the site and its staff crumble in front of me. Maybe it is time to put the old dog down. It's up to the remaining members to figure this out. I wish all the members on the site—including those who may have made mistakes during this time of utter negativity on the forums—the best with their future endeavors and for whatever the future may hold for them.

As for what I think should happen to improve the site, I've already laid that out in numerous posts, past and present.

Like this one and this one and at the end of your sig in every post? For as much as you've said the contradictions in your posts have been anything but, I am legitimately scratching my head at this one.

Quote from: HyperSonic7701

Sure, she is one of three admins, and she can be overruled in the RN decision, but do you really think she's just going to accept that? Do you really think we'll just make up and it will be all CatBags and rainbows again?

No, I don't think you guys will ever make up. I think you two should ignore each other instead of constantly treating your time on the site as if you need opposition. That's why I'm telling you not to keep bringing her up.

I'm not always targeting her, but I do consider her part of the problem, and not the solution so long as she continues this charade of having people posting for her, since you more or less just admitted to that anyway.

I made a post telling you to go around her authority, which probably offends her to high heaven, and yet you think I'm posting on her behalf?

…

…I can't even respond properly to that without addressing you as a person instead of addressing your points. You are simply too far gone. You honestly think that the numerous posts in this topic that go against your point of view are part of some sort of Flying Fox appreciation club, that people would rig polls just to ruin *your* Race Night, that everybody is choosing to believe Flying Fox unquestioningly just to spite you… it's almost incomprehensible that you're digging your heels in deeper even as the earth crumbles beneath your feet.

I miss the dynamic we used to have. Although it occasionally went too far, I miss when we could lightly troll each other without it being treated as an offense. I miss when Race Nights weren't a huge deal and were just a bunch of people meeting to do something together. I miss us sitting together on TSC_Streams just trying to keep the channel alive post-marathon. At this point, though, you seem determined to be opposed to anybody who doesn't agree with your actions 100%, and I and others have abandoned that friendship. I truly hope that at some point you stop saying that everybody must be wrong and reflect a bit, as when so many people are disagreeing, perhaps you should consider that maybe you're in the wrong at least a tiny bit. As it stands, though, you've chosen to make this a test of endurance, and people are bailing on trying to reason with you. I can't see any way to get through without watching you dig yourself deeper, so the best thing I can do is bail too so that you stop digging.

With all of the opposition driven away, you can get the admins to do as you see fit.

Congratulations. You win.

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<RPGnutter> Well I think your reasoning was dumb, so you get sassed<RPGnutter> Thats how it works

V_V I only need to skim this topic to see nothing but bullshit. Okay, look. I'm gonna add my piece, and I'm sorry that this has very little to do with the title change or whatever, and I apologize if what I say is completely out of line, but I'm tired of seeing it.

Seriously, what the hell is wrong with all of you fueling yourselves and drama (not aiming at the people trying to be level-headed and looking to end it). You guys are a fucking community, and butting heads too. Hyper and FF, for example, were friends and now at each others' throats in a sense. Where'd that go? What happened to any sense of decency (or was that never there to begin with)? Instead, I see stupid opinions and little aspects of people's anger being thrust on another in a really childish manner and nothing happens, then one person or the other whines that they're not through and hide it until it comes up again.

This kind of thing is something I deal on a semi-regular basis, as I'm a leader of the SADX SS sub-community, as well as see it SO much in the rest of the Sonic SS community as a whole. I've seen it on TSC enough as well, even from admins, and angers me that you guys sometimes don't even know how to handle specific things, as well as poorly representing your own community. And this is as a whole, not individually, though I have personal beef with a few people. The only person I felt I could rely on for decisions that matter was Thorn. You know how bad that is? And the worst part is that I saw no one trying to improve themselves as admins, with some hints that FF was trying hard enough. Being a super mod for speedrun.com has lead me to know that you can only make decisions correctly if you collaborate and have dependable subordinates, and some fill-ins if needed, and you NEED to trust them, and THEY need to trust you. Not only that, but they need to be open about their ideals, and when those ideals matter, and when they do not. And it's your job to make sure things are well-decided FOR THE BETTER OF THE COMMUNITY AND ITS GAMES, NOT to your own ideals, and that's something I've seen too fucking often from TSC (no disrespect, Thorn, don't get me wrong). And without Thorn, I do not see this possible unless there's some more leadership.

Now, I'm done ranting about admins. The community. Since I joined, there've been idiots all around starting, fueling, and encouraging drama. One of the first times I posted on the forums, I got into an argument with Cruizer. Aside from that, it's a great introduction to the community (aside from meeting Jawzun and francisco, but that's off-topic). There's a reason I've avoided the TSC community, and this is a large portion of it. While I've seen plenty of welcoming and helpful people, there's a LOT of bigots and idiots that I've met as well that corrupt the community and discourage others. There's lots of arrogance I've seen as well (which, I'll be honest, I've been struggling with arrogance since I got here and I hate it), and people don't know how put themselves in another's shoes and SO many people care more about themselves than someone else, going as far as to hide strats and refuse to use others (though this is shots at the SS community, mainly). This hurts the community. It hurts the meta-game, and does nothing but care for one person to get the "glorious Werl Rekky" you hear about so much.

If y'all even cared REMOTELY, you'd find a way to clean this shit up, regardless of your own fallacies, opinions, and ideals, because that's how you care for a community. It's how you help it grow, not whine and cry at each other like I've seen for all this time interacting with the community, which I've even partaken in, unfortunately. I hate it. It's stupid and self-centered, and all of us should feel ashamed for both letting this go on and taking part in it. You want TSC to thrive, do something FOR THE GOOD OF TSC. This goes for admins AND users/competitors.

If you want my personal opinion as to what all of you should do, you'll be disappointed. It's up to you guys to make a change, for better or worse. For the sake of a community I used to love and partake in, I sure hope it's the former.

mmm... maybe I should tell another story from the past, to explain why this is all happening.

to do this I have to go far back in time, I have to explain my original ban, 99% of the current members have no idea why I was originally banned from forums. (hell I don't even remember exactly, but I do know the events that led up to it.) my notoriousness comes from my numerous ban evasion to get back into the site.

but, if you dig really deep,If you dig really really deep into s06 appreciation land you can find my post.

Back when Noah was building the ark, I was originally banned because my post "weren't up to TSC standards". if you actually find them.. they aren't so bad~ follow me here because this is important.

now welcome to the present day, eventually the mods didn't care I ban evaded, nor cared I joined the forums. (and now I see why) I was really gitty, and started reading a lot of random topics and things I've missed out on.

my reaction: I've covered my mouth a lot and whispered to myself "omg, they allow this stuff now?!" If you guys were held to the same TSC standards back then, about 65% ~ 70% of you would also be banned.

Tl:Dr TSC posting standards have severely degenerated

everything I did back then, in the end was non-nefarious (I.E. I would never cheat) I would concede, and there was lines I absolutely would not/know not to ever cross, lines that I see being crossed today, and I don't like it. That's why my change of heart, to help combat it. I'm not kidding when I said I should be an admin. I should, because I've been on both polar sides of the tsc fight, I know what to look for.

well, the optics are terrible right now, everyone is venting bottled up rage of why they hate each other/the system, and it almost looks like all the admins don't care/demoted themselves, except for FF, and I'd also say gerbilsoft because the site goes down sometimes and he brings it back up.

It will be all ok though, and pass. On the bright side we cant really go anywere but up from here.

I'll go a step further and say, some ppl leaving may not be such a bad thing. ppl that where creating artificial barriers on site progression, due to unreasonable extreme fears. it's ok to try different things with the site.

add more charts, merge tusc (sonic megamix deserves a spot on tsc #realtalk), ban emulators w/e, etc. whats the worse that can happen, you gain a memeber or two? if something truely sucks it can be removed... its not big deal.

I get what SDM is saying without knowing what he was going to say, there is way to much hyperventilating twitchyness going on here. part of the blame is, typed words are monotoned, and you cant really get a good context of how ppl are really expressing their thoughts, many assume each other are being aggressive and mean about it. in reality most of us are chill, and nice. there're some bad apples, but they usually just threaten to leave all the time, and hopefully for us they actually do.

I will be very clear here, Hyper. I didn't argue with you because of FF or anybody else's sake; The only reason why I did it is because most of the things you brought up make you sound either really arrogant, stupid, or indecisive. It just makes you sound like I don't have a mind of my own.

And I don't mean this new post.

Now, for your new post, I just find it weird that you would write another book after starting with "I felt that was going to be the end of the topic".This is not really that simple, but I guess maybe we have different ideas of what simple is. The one thing that really irks me, though, is this:

Quote from: Hypersonic7701

A lot of this has been an attempt to "get" her to be assertive, because it will be this courage, and this alone, that will allow her to see what she "should" really do, whatever that means in her view. I never meant for this topic to go so far, or for a lot of other things to happen in the name of hurting her (because I never meant to hurt her at all), it was just misunderstood that way since my methods were probably not so direct. Enough about FF, though, since as it is, there will probably be about 4 posts mocking me again for gosh knows what.

into this

Quote from: Hypersonic7701

In the end, I don't really regret what happened [...] Nor do I truly regret the effective casualties this topic caused

Most people know very well what you have done and I will not bring it up again, but effectively, you say that you did what you did and don't care about the results? That makes you sound more like a sociopath than a normal person, to be honest.

In the end though, I feel this topic overall shouldn't have gone this way at all. I mean sure, we lost some administrators, but that doesn't change ANYTHING in terms of whats happening to the site. It's not like Administrators are magicians; This site is almost the same it was 2 years ago (for better or for worse), and the only real change is the fact that it lacks additional staff. However it has always lacked proper staff needed to change the site (meaning active coders), but apparently, everybody seems to just ignore that fact and just be like this guy:

I just want people to know that TSC isn't actually ending; I don't think it has ever been as big as it was before i came here, anyway. Most people that come here are active in other communities and people just simply don't use TSC as a means of communicating and cooperating, only for showing their e-peen.