Beans, the only thing i find "unreal" is the delusional state of mind this Slantos character must be in to come up with some of the crazy stuff he has. It's gotten to the point of me actually looking forward to his next post(s) just to see if he can actually say something more ridiculous than the last.

Let's face it, this thread's only as long as it is because of the ridiculous claims being made! I'm sure you'd see the Hart thread getting more play if some idiot were to start stating that Lundqvist should win over Malkin because he has more saves?

Clatts

Posted - 04/29/2012 : 21:25:16 Commenting on a topic without so much as stating an opinion and then making the same joke that was made earlier in the post by someone else - Priceless

"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."Don Cherry on Visors

Beans15

Posted - 04/29/2012 : 08:31:38 I was trying to find the proper words to say what Slozo just said. Well done! Bag of pucks. Hehehehe

It's awesome that in the heat of the playoffs and as other award nominees are being reported (Hart, GM of the year) that people are stuck on the Byng.

Unreal.

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!

slozo

Posted - 04/29/2012 : 07:25:43 The 2011/12 Lady Byng Thread

3 pages of comments34 long posts by a guy named Slantos24 angry replies by Alex11613 frustrated replies by Clatts1 heated debate_______________________________

Having a 100+ post thread on who should win the Lady Byng trophy turn into a street brawl?

Priceless.

_________________________________

For everything else . . . there's a bag of pucks.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

Clatts

Posted - 04/28/2012 : 19:18:17 Slantos you can say "who cares?" or "ya so?" all you want, im giving you reasons why someone who votes on this may consider each candidate.

- Maybe some voters are like you and say Eberle is leading in 2/3 of the "most relevant stats".

- Maybe some voters take into account that it is Eberle's 2nd season and therefore he will have a chance to win in the future and this is not his year.

- Maybe some voters think that because it's Eberle's 2nd season that it is extra impressive and he should win

- Maybe some voters think Campbell being 2nd in points for all defencemen is better than Eberle being 16th overall in points for all forwards

- Maybe some Voters think Moulson's goal totals are more impressive that Eberles point totals

- Maybe some voters take into account Time on ice

- Maybe some voters think a Defencemen winning the Lady Byng would be impressive/interesting

- Maybe some voters think being part of a playoff team is a sure sign of playing at a high standard of skill

- Maybe some voters don't look at stats and just vote how the feel. ie. They are a fan of one of the players or one of the teams a player plays on

- Maybe some voters only take PIMS into account

And on and on and on and on and on.

Do you understand? There is more than one way of justifying your vote or considering the winner for this award so to say one guy is going to win and if he doesn't it will be "THE BIGGEST MISTAKE IN THE HISTORY OF THE AWARD" is a OVERSTATEMENT.

Now I understand your an Oiler fan and have a man crush on Eberle but try to look at this through an objective lens for 2 seconds.

Let's be honest there not as big a difference in this years candidates stats as some previous years.

Between Moulson and Eberle there is a

a difference of 3 in +/-a difference of 7 in points a difference of 4 in PIMS

nothing in the double digits.

***On a completely separate note if you wan't to quote my posts please use the quote button and seperate your comments on my posts with another colour or font size, it can be confusing for the other readers when you don't do this

"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."Don Cherry on Visors

Slantos

Posted - 04/28/2012 : 14:40:51 Here is an argument for the candidates

Campbell:

-2nd in points and assists for defencemen (AGAIN, Eberle has more points than him)-Played all 82 games (If you look at the past 11 winners, you'll see that hasn't weighed as heavily as P, +/-, PIM)-Only visited the penalty box 3 times (Yes, that's 6 PIM)-No penalties in the last 25 games and only one since the All-Star Break (And that matters HOW???)-would be the first defencemen since the 50's to win the Byng (AGAIN, that matters HOW???)-Team made the playoffs (That's his TEAM, not his personal stats)-Played more minutes than other candidates, defencemen are more prone to taking penalties (AGAIN, TOI hasn't effected the winner as heavily as P, +/-, PIM)

Eberle:

-Only 2nd season in the NHL (Yup, SO?)-Had a 31 game stretch with no penalties (Yup, so?)-Only 10 pims (Yes that's his PIM's)-Career highs in goals (34), assists (42), points (76) and power-play goals (10) (Yes that equals his points)

Moulson

-With six penalty minutes, he became the first player since Paul Kariya in 1996-97 to score at least 30 goals and have single-digit penalty minutes. (Yes, so?)-post career-bests of 36 goals -- 10th in the League -- 33 assists and 69 points (Yes, that's his points)-Moulson is one of 8 players with 30 goals in each of the last 3 years. Here are the other 7:Stamkos, Ovechkin, Marleau, Kovalchuk, Iginla, Ryan, Kessel (Yes, so???)

Then there is also a wildcard in receiving this trophy

"to the player adjudged to have exhibited the best type of sportsmanship and gentlemanly conduct combined with a high standard of playing ability"

Now I haven't watched these players enough to know but "sportsmanship and gentlemanly conduct " is not measured by any STAT, maybe one of the candidates chirps at the refs while the other one picks up the opposing players equipment after a fight and brings it over to him.

"to the player adjudged to have exhibited the best type of sportsmanship and gentlemanly conduct"

Ummm first off I'm pretty sure PIM's would be a descent stat to look at too see who's gentlemanly... Second, ALL of the nominees over the past 11 years have been gentlemanly.. And unless the refs are voting NOONE WILL NO WHO CHIRPS!!

"combined with a high standard of playing ability"

I'm pretty sure whoever has high points and a good +/- would be a good stats to look at to judge that part of the award.

So maybe I'll say it again, maybe look at some of the stat categories that have greatly effected the outcome and the winner of the award, where Moulson and Campbell have better #'s than Eberle. Because I can't find any, but keep looking,

JDC

Clatts

Posted - 04/28/2012 : 05:07:32

quote:Originally posted by Slantos

If you think Moulson or Campbell "SHOULD WIN" and you believe they are as deserving... You haven't gave any good reasons or stats to back-up those statements on WHY you think they are "JUST as deserving to win the award as Eberle"

N so far the stats n reasons, some people have already given, with the TOI factor, isn't a good reason, as that OBVIOUSLY hasn't weighed as heavily on deciding the winner in the past 11 years, as points, +/-, and PIM's... So I mean find other stats categories, that have been as relevant as those 3, in deciding the winner of the award in the past 11 years, where Moulson and Campbell have posted better #'s than Eberle.

JDC

Actually I did that on page 1, this is an exact copy

Here is an argument for the candidates

Campbell:

-2nd in points and assists for defencemen-Played all 82 games-Only visited the penalty box 3 times-No penalties in the last 25 games and only one since the All-Star Break-would be the first defencemen since the 50's to win the Byng-Team made the playoffs-Played more minutes than other candidates, defencemen are more prone to taking penalties

Eberle:

-Only 2nd season in the NHL -Had a 31 game stretch with no penalties-Only 10 pims-Career highs in goals (34), assists (42), points (76) and power-play goals (10).

Moulson

-With six penalty minutes, he became the first player since Paul Kariya in 1996-97 to score at least 30 goals and have single-digit penalty minutes.-post career-bests of 36 goals -- 10th in the League -- 33 assists and 69 points-Moulson is one of 8 players with 30 goals in each of the last 3 years. Here are the other 7:Stamkos, Ovechkin, Marleau, Kovalchuk, Iginla, Ryan, Kessel

Then there is also a wildcard in receiving this trophy

"to the player adjudged to have exhibited the best type of sportsmanship and gentlemanly conduct combined with a high standard of playing ability"

Now I haven't watched these players enough to know but "sportsmanship and gentlemanly conduct " is not measured by any STAT, maybe one of the candidates chirps at the refs while the other one picks up the opposing players equipment after a fight and brings it over to him.

Either way to say "if Eberle doesn't win, that will be the biggest mistake in the history of the award". Is an overstatement if not a miss-statement.

"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."Don Cherry on Visors

"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."Don Cherry on Visors

Slantos

Posted - 04/28/2012 : 05:02:10 If you think Moulson or Campbell "SHOULD WIN" and you believe they are as deserving... You haven't gave any good reasons or stats to back-up those statements on WHY you think they are "JUST as deserving to win the award as Eberle"

N so far the stats n reasons, some people have already given, with the TOI factor, isn't a good reason, as that OBVIOUSLY hasn't weighed as heavily on deciding the winner in the past 11 years, as points, +/-, and PIM's... So I mean find other stats categories, that have been as relevant as those 3, in deciding the winner of the award in the past 11 years, where Moulson and Campbell have posted better #'s than Eberle.

JDC

Alex116

Posted - 04/27/2012 : 15:53:58

quote:Originally posted by Slantos

LOL yes I realize nobody is arguing that Eberle shouldn't win... But I just love how your more focused on analyzing my statements than backing up your own, with stats and facts, on how and why you think Campbell and Moulson are as deserving as Eberle.. Just great! Keep at it!!!

JDC

What do we need to "back up"? We aren't the one's making ridiuclous claims! We're agreeing that any of the finalists are deserving and it's just not gonna be "the biggest mistake, blah, blah, blah...." regardless of which one of them wins. You really don't get it though do you? If you really think we need to prove anything about what we're saying, "with stats and facts" then you're not intelligent enough to figure out the entire premise of what is being discussed. Sorry, but you really must be dense.

Slantos

Posted - 04/27/2012 : 11:48:29 LOL yes I realize nobody is arguing that Eberle shouldn't win... But I just love how your more focused on analyzing my statements than backing up your own, with stats and facts, on how and why you think Campbell and Moulson are as deserving as Eberle.. Just great! Keep at it!!!

JDC

Alex116

Posted - 04/26/2012 : 22:32:39 This is so typical of most of his other posts. It's a perfect example of a "Slantos Spin".....

1. Make ridiculous claim2. Have it squashed by others3. Throw out skewed numbers/ideas/interpretations to support original ridiculous claim4. Be further squashed. 5. Do research to find support for ORC (original ridiculous claim)6. Skew numbers/theories to support ORC since what was found didn't help7. Completely fail when finally presenting argument when it's proven that it was totally wrong8. Finally admit to failure by either aknowledging it as such, or by disappearing.

Either option on #8 is fine by me.

OILINONTARIO

Posted - 04/26/2012 : 17:54:45 I can tell you the biggest joke in the history of this reward.....it was that last post by Slantos! And the punchline was friggin' priceless! The nominees, the voters, the GMs, the Eberle family, they don't care as much as you do. It's a token award, less thought is put into it than any of the others, nobody gives a crap, and it is more arbitrary than any other trophy awarded in professional sports. Love your enthusiasm, but, Jesus Eberle, get over it, kid!

The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2013.

Clatts

Posted - 04/26/2012 : 17:49:40

quote:Originally posted by Slantos

Are you really trying to compare Lidstrom to Brian Campbell? ARE YOU HIGH???? Lidstroms closests comparable year statistically to Campbell's this year, he had 57 points, was a +14, and had 14 PIM (still not a - player). His lowest +/- came extremely late in his career, and he was still only a -2, other than that year, he had NEVER been a - player. Yes +/- was effected by his team, but he was the player on that team that was playing the majority of the TOI, ALMOST HIS WHOLE CAREER!!!

JDC

Am I HIGH?? Are you retarded? Do you even know what this conversation was about.

You saidquote:Originally posted by Slantos

Ask any forward in the league who they'd rather go up against, a guy like Bieksa who's willing to cross check them, punch them, slash them, or simply do ANYTHING to make them think twice about charging the net, and to throw them off their game, or a guy like Campbell, who won't do any of the above. I'm SURE their answer would be simple.

JDC

Meaning because Campbell has low PIMs you think he is a poor defencemen

Then I Said

Nicklas Lidstrom has never had more than 50 PIMS in a season and has averaged 25 PIMS per season...so you probably wouldn't want him on your team.

Meaning Lidstrom has had low PIMs his entire career so do you think he's a bad defencemen?

Defence is more about timing and effort than PUNCHING,SLASHING and CROSSCHECKING

You Still don't even get that no one is arguing that Eberle is not deserving they are just arguing that Moulson and Campbell are as deserving to and if Eberle dosn't wn it won't be "THE BIGGEST MISTAKE IN THE HISTORY OF THE AWARD"

Give your head a shake Slantos

"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."Don Cherry on Visors

Alex116

Posted - 04/26/2012 : 17:02:23 Slantos.....i know i said i was done with you, but i can't resist this one. Sorry.......

All you've done here by posting this last bunch of stats is further prove you're level of intelligence towards the NHL and it's awards. Before i go into anything too detailed, lemme give you a simple lesson! The awards are voted for BEFORE the playoffs begin!!! The 3 current "finalists" are actually the "top 3" and votes have already been counted. They call them finalists and not nominees for that reason! So, to say that one of your latest criteria is a Stanley Cup final appearance is possibly the biggest laugh you've provided yet!

I'll post more of a reply soon, i just have to compose myself first as i'm laughing too hard right now. Sorry....

So after you've looked at the past 11 nominees and winners, and if they give any indication of the requirements needed to win the award, you either need to:

A) Post better stats in 2/3 of the most relevant categories

B) Make it to the Stanley Cup Finals if you HAVEN'T posted better #'s in 2/3 of the most relevant categories OR

C) Have 2.5x less penalty minutes than the next nominee, if you HAVEN'T posted better #'s in 2/3 of the most relevant categories.

So unless Brian Campbell makes it to the Stanley Cup Final, none of the nominees, should win but Jordan Eberle.So again I'll say it'd be a biggest joke in the history of the award. (Or at the VERY LEAST the past 11 seasons)

JDC

Slantos

Posted - 04/26/2012 : 16:31:50 First off, I never said Lidstrom was more deserving for the Lady Byng than Campbell, I simply said I'd prefer to have him on my team rather than Campbell, as he's willing to do the gritty stuff, willing to do what it takes to win, he's a + player, and Campbell is not.

2nd. For those who'll argue that Campbell SHOULD win over Eberle, or is as deserving as Eberle, I'd LOOOVE to here your arguments after you read my next post.

JDC

JOSHUACANADA

Posted - 04/26/2012 : 07:57:08 But not Brian Campbell who based on stats had a better year and more deserving this year for the Lady Bing award. You are unable to comprehend an arguement unless it suits your opinion aren't you. +/- is based on overall team play and no person here is gonna argue Florida has a lower overall +/- than Detroit. Plus +/- is probably the hardest stat to equate in this scenerio as one player might have a role to be sent out against the other teams best players and the other could be used primarily in offense situations.

Based on those numbers and the fact that Campbell is on a team which has an overall lower +/-, I'd take Campbell this year over Lindstrom based on the 2/3 stat performance advantage you chose to put such importance on for this award.

Those stats are not the only factor when choosing the Lady Bing or to measure the importance of a players high standard or play and value to his team. TOI which has Campbell averaging 25+ minutes per game and he is usually on the ice during the most important times. Eberle whom I believe is a deserving candidate averages 18 minutes of play. You can argue who is on the ice during the most important points in the game but the simple fact is Campbell plays just under 1/2 the game and Eberle see less than 1/3. While spending more than 7 minutes per game over an 82 game season, the guy who spent more time on the ice and in a defensive role manage to receive lower penalty minutes. Based on an award for sportsmanship and high level of play Campbell deserves high consideration.

quote:Originally posted by Slantos

Lidstrom is a + player, who does what it takes to win. That includes doing the gritty stuff. I would gladly take him on my team.

JDC

Slantos

Posted - 04/26/2012 : 07:36:54 Are you really trying to compare Lidstrom to Brian Campbell? ARE YOU HIGH???? Lidstroms closests comparable year statistically to Campbell's this year, he had 57 points, was a +14, and had 14 PIM (still not a - player). His lowest +/- came extremely late in his career, and he was still only a -2, other than that year, he had NEVER been a - player. Yes +/- was effected by his team, but he was the player on that team that was playing the majority of the TOI, ALMOST HIS WHOLE CAREER!!!

JDC

Slantos

Posted - 04/25/2012 : 20:31:04 Lidstrom is a + player, who does what it takes to win. That includes doing the gritty stuff. I would gladly take him on my team.

JDC

Alex116

Posted - 04/25/2012 : 18:04:53

quote:Originally posted by mandree888

quote:Sorry mandree, but that implies past tense. As far as i know, the Kessel trade thread is still alive, unfortunately, and will continue to grow.

it was hope alex..... it was hope.......thank you for crushing it rofl

Think nothing of it . Come to think of it, maybe i'll go post in it to bring it back to the front page. j/k.....

Clatts

Posted - 04/25/2012 : 16:55:53

quote:Originally posted by Slantos

Ok, I guess as far as arguments against Eberle winning go, this thread IS over..

And Brian Campbell MIGHT win, but I wouldn't want him on the Oilers as he's to expensive, he's a - player (as a defenseman that HORRIBLE), and he's not doing his job as a defenseman if he won't be gritty toward the opposition. Ask any forward in the league who they'd rather go up against, a guy like Bieksa who's willing to cross check them, punch them, slash them, or simply do ANYTHING to make them think twice about charging the net, and to throw them off their game, or a guy like Campbell, who won't do any of the above. I'm SURE their answer would be simple.

JDC

Nicklas Lidstrom has never had more than 50 PIMS in a season and has averaged 25 PIMS per season...so you probably wouldn't want him on your team.

"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."Don Cherry on Visors

mandree888

Posted - 04/25/2012 : 13:45:08

quote:Sorry mandree, but that implies past tense. As far as i know, the Kessel trade thread is still alive, unfortunately, and will continue to grow.

it was hope alex..... it was hope.......thank you for crushing it rofl

Slantos

Posted - 04/25/2012 : 13:38:18 Ok, I guess as far as arguments against Eberle winning go, this thread IS over..

And Brian Campbell MIGHT win, but I wouldn't want him on the Oilers as he's to expensive, he's a - player (as a defenseman that HORRIBLE), and he's not doing his job as a defenseman if he won't be gritty toward the opposition. Ask any forward in the league who they'd rather go up against, a guy like Bieksa who's willing to cross check them, punch them, slash them, or simply do ANYTHING to make them think twice about charging the net, and to throw them off their game, or a guy like Campbell, who won't do any of the above. I'm SURE their answer would be simple.

JDC

Alex116

Posted - 04/25/2012 : 13:01:38

quote:Originally posted by mandree888

slantos i only have one question for you? why won't you let this thread die. its as boring as the kessel trade thread and that was 8 pages long dear god.......

Sorry mandree, but that implies past tense. As far as i know, the Kessel trade thread is still alive, unfortunately, and will continue to grow.

mandree888

Posted - 04/25/2012 : 12:57:19 slantos i only have one question for you? why won't you let this thread die. its as boring as the kessel trade thread and that was 8 pages long dear god.......

Slantos

Posted - 04/25/2012 : 12:34:57 Also seeing as Eberle is STATISTICALLY as deserving as the LAST 4 WINNERS, that's the POINT I was trying to get across. And it would be as big of a joke, as if one of the previous 4 winners, who posted the most relevant stats, had not

Yes I'm biased, but have I not given valid points and good enough stats of previous winners and of the current nominees, for that statement?

JDC

Slantos

Posted - 04/25/2012 : 10:42:15 This is exactly what you've been doing this entire thread. Saying one thing, then changing what you said to suit your argument. It's hilarious that you continue to do this. Read through this thread and it's riddled with "Slantos spins".

Haha your hilarious, all YOU do is try to find contradictory statements I've made.. Instead of try to back your argument, and find relevant stats why you think Campbell "should" win.

As much fun as this has been, i'm done with you. One last time, not that it's gonna register with you all of a sudden, but anyway......Eberle is deserving of the award, MAYBE EVEN THE MOST DESERVING? Personally i think Campbell "should" win. BUT, not matter what, if Eberle doesn't win, IT WILL NOT BE, "the biggest mistake in the history of the award". THAT, is what you've completely FAILED to prove to anyone.

If you now believe Eberle is most deserving, my job is finished.

Also seeing as Eberle is STATISTICALLY as deserving as the LAST 4 WINNERS, that's the POINT I was trying to get across. And it would be as big of a joke, as if one of the previous 4 winners, who posted the most relevant stats, had not won.

Also if you think TOI and blocked shots should be included in this award you are nuts (i realize you didn't say that, but you hinted at it) As those stats have nothing to do with playing "with a high standard of play" and definitely have nothing to do with being the most "gentlemanly".

JDC

Alex116

Posted - 04/25/2012 : 07:39:30 Read this.....

quote:Originally posted by Slantos[br Is it just a HUGE coincidence that the last FOUR winners, have posted better numbers in at least 2/3 of the main relevant categories I've stated?

You'll have a tough time convincing me of that, as I don't believe in coincidences (especially when it's OBVIOUSLY NOT a coincidence)

Now, read this.....

quote:Originally posted by SlantosI do believe in coincidences, just not 4 IN A ROW.

This is exactly what you've been doing this entire thread. Saying one thing, then changing what you said to suit your argument. It's hilarious that you continue to do this. Read through this thread and it's riddled with "Slantos spins".

As much fun as this has been, i'm done with you. One last time, not that it's gonna register with you all of a sudden, but anyway......Eberle is deserving of the award, maybe even the most deserving? Personally i think Campbell "should" win. BUT, not matter what, if Eberle doesn't win, IT WILL NOT BE, "the biggest mistake in the history of the award". THAT, is what you've completely FAILED to prove to anyone.

Slantos

Posted - 04/25/2012 : 05:59:39 Truth is, i 'didn't even notice this as it wasn't part of the post i responded to. However, i find it ironic that you bring this up and totally ignored the huge rant/post you put up that was completely squashed! First, it's possible it's a coincidence, whether you believe in them or no, but it's also noted that you supplied yet another claim that you pulled outta your you know what! Remember a few days ago when +/- didn't matter much cuz it's a stat the relies on team play? Yeah, like points don't. I suppose Jonathan Cheechoo would have had 56 goals in '06 without Joe Thornton and his other team mates huh? Now it's one of your 3 main criteria for the award.

First, my rant wasn't completely squashed, i just don't feel like addressing someone who doesn't listen. I'll address every one of your questions AGAIN. I do believe in coincidences, just not 4 IN A ROW. As for this +/- statement, I've already stated, since doing my research on the past 4 nominees and winners, I REALIZE NOW, IT IS APART OF DECIDING THE WINNER. But obviously as the past 4 winners will show you, it doesn't carry as much weight in deciding the winner as much as points. Also yes I realize points and +/- are effected by the team as well (did I ever say points weren't? No, so stop trying to make it sound like I did) But again as the past 4 winners will show you, (in +/- and points) that has nothing to do with how much those stats weigh in deciding the winner of the award. And again, that's not MY main 3 criteria for the award. it's the MAIN 3 criteria that have been used to decide the last 4 winners.

Here's another great article i found while looking into some of the past winners vs nominees. http://www.aolnews.com/2009/04/24/lady-byng-nominees-announced/Interesting point about Iginla being mentioned and i actually agree with the guy's point. Iggy is just an example and i don't think he should necessarily win, but from everything i've seen from the guy, he's a good sport, a polite guy and one of the classiest guys i've ever witnessed play the game (though that's another topic all together). Point is, even PIM's shouldn't be the be all end all. Go ahead Slantos, throw this back at me and say "this further proves my point, it doesn't matter that Campbell only had 10 PIMs......", why, because that's exactly what you do. You don't "get it" and prob never will so you angle things to make you think your convincing others of your madness!

I've already addressed this, and I agree with it, because again, as the past 4 winners will show you, PIM SHOULD NOT and HAVE NOT, been the be all and end all in this award. Is that throwing it back in your face? No it's agreeing with you.

Bottom line is, low penalty mins should be considered for sure. But does that mean Eberle's 10pims were better for the award than 12 from Eriksson? What if all 12 of Eriksson's were "good penalties" that bailed out his d or goalie and saved a goal. These do exist you know! And maybe Eb's 5 minors were all for retaliation where he slashed someone? *Warning, warning, this is hypothetical Slantos, hopefully unlike coincidences, you do believe in hypothetical examples?

I'm not saying Eberle's 10 PIM were better PIM for the award than Eriksson's, but unless the type of penalties they take are supplied for the voters, they will only see and take into account that it's 10PIM vs. 12 PIM.I believe your correct on this, as the type of penalties they take should have weight on this award as well, but unless the type of PIM are supplied to voters, it obviously does NOT.

Points should be considered too, but also not the be all end all. If a guy like Dave Bolland played a shut down roll all year, while putting up 65 points and 6 PIMs, that'd be incredible and would be better than a 90 point 10PIM season from a forward like St. Louis imo.

See I half agree with this statement, points SHOULD NOT BE THE BE ALL AND END ALL. But again as the past 4 winners will show you, points obviously carry the MOST WEIGHT(not 100% of it, but MOST OF IT) And IMO, I don't think it'd be better, but maybe just as good. And obviously the people who decide on the nominees don't think those type of players should be nominated either. (or maybe those type of players just haven't put up those type of stats)

Lastly, to judge a guy's season as far as hockey goes, his role and all his stats should be considered. GP, PTS, +/-, TOI, blocked shots, etc.....

If you believe ALL stats "SHOULD" be considered to judge a players season, you have a right to do so. But REALIZE, FOR THIS AWARD, as the last 4 winners of the award will show you, either all the other stats haven't been considered, or they just simply don't pull AS MUCH weight in deciding the winner of the award as points, +/-, and penalty minutes do. Which obviously all pull different weight from each other as well. AGAIN AS THE PAST 4 WINNERS WILL SHOW YOU, POINTS OBVIOUSLY PULL THE MOST WEIGHT

JDC

Alex116

Posted - 04/24/2012 : 22:18:44 Clatts, i didn't realize you were typing up an epic response around the same time as me! It's pretty easy isn't it.

Having said that, i don't think i actually responded to the one part Slantos is now trying to hang onto.....

quote:Originally posted by Slantos

I love how you addressed everything I said but this:

Is it just a HUGE coincidence that the last FOUR winners, have posted better numbers in at least 2/3 of the main statistical categories that have been used to crown a winner?

Truth is, i didn't even notice this as it wasn't part of the post i responded to. However, i find it ironic that you bring this up and totally ignored the huge rant/post you put up that was completely squashed! First, it's possible it's a coincidence, whether you believe in them or no, but it's also noted that you supplied yet another claim that you pulled outta your you know what! Remember a few days ago when +/- didn't matter much cuz it's a stat the relies on team play? Yeah, like points don't. I suppose Jonathan Cheechoo would have had 56 goals in '06 without Joe Thornton and his other team mates huh? Now it's one of your 3 main criteria for the award.

Here's another great article i found while looking into some of the past winners vs nominees. http://www.aolnews.com/2009/04/24/lady-byng-nominees-announced/Interesting point about Iginla being mentioned and i actually agree with the guy's point. Iggy is just an example and i don't think he should necessarily win, but from everything i've seen from the guy, he's a good sport, a polite guy and one of the classiest guys i've ever witnessed play the game (though that's another topic all together). Point is, even PIM's shouldn't be the be all end all. Go ahead Slantos, throw this back at me and say "this further proves my point, it doesn't matter that Campbell only had 10 PIMs......", why, because that's exactly what you do. You don't "get it" and prob never will so you angle things to make you think your convincing others of your madness!

Bottom line is, low penalty mins should be considered for sure. But does that mean Eberle's 10pims were better for the award than 12 from Eriksson? What if all 12 of Eriksson's were "good penalties" that bailed out his d or goalie and saved a goal. These do exist you know! And maybe Eb's 5 minors were all for retaliation where he slashed someone? *Warning, warning, this is hypothetical Slantos, hopefully unlike coincidences, you do believe in hypothetical examples?

Points should be considered too, but also not the be all end all. If a guy like Dave Bolland played a shut down roll all year, while putting up 65 points and 6 PIMs, that'd be incredible and would be better than a 90 point 10PIM season from a forward like St. Louis imo.

Lastly, to judge a guy's season as far as hockey goes, his role and all his stats should be considered. GP, PTS, +/-, TOI, blocked shots, etc.....

Clatts

Posted - 04/24/2012 : 20:21:18

quote:Originally posted by Slantos

I love how you addressed everything I said but this:

Is it just a HUGE coincidence that the last FOUR winners, have posted better numbers in at least 2/3 of the main statistical categories that have been used to crown a winner?

JDC

I love how you've addressed NOTHING either me or Alex said, you just keep saying the same stuff.

If you read Alex's last comment he does comment on that question.

Yes maybe it is a HUGE coincidence.

Did you know both St.louis and Datsyuk shoot left handed so there NO WAY a righty like Eberle could win the award...I mean in ALL THE PAST 3 SEASON the award has went to A LEFTY so to choose a RIGHTY would be just plain NUTS!

by the way I also responded to your question in my last post, you know the part where I point out that even though Eberle has 2/3 stats he has 20 less points then all the previous winners, so how is this guy a shoe in?

"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."Don Cherry on Visors

Slantos

Posted - 04/24/2012 : 18:40:57 I love how you addressed everything I said but this:

Is it just a HUGE coincidence that the last FOUR winners, have posted better numbers in at least 2/3 of the main statistical categories that have been used to crown a winner?

JDC

Alex116

Posted - 04/24/2012 : 18:36:51

quote:Originally posted by Slantos

I agree refs should vote on this as well, as they of all people would know best, who's the most gentlemanly.

Man, i got this far (yup, one whole sentence in) and thought you weren't gonna go on repeating all the same garbage you've been spewing.........then i kept reading.

quote:Originally posted by SlantosBut since they don't, stats are the only logical way to judge the winner, and STATISTICALLY Eberle is the most deserving. And from the last 3 winners, it seems like it has been judged on stats, as if you looks at their stats, it looks like there's been a certain similarity of statistics.

Lol, read that again. Talk about being repetetive! I think we get what you are saying. We've heard all about the last 3 winners and their stats! We've also witnessed you flip flop about the value of +/- and spin things to support your opinion over and over again. It's all right here in the thread! Know what you should do.....a little more research. Go back and look at the past 40 winners to get a little better sample of the award. Please supply us with all three finalists, their PTS totals, GP, PIMs, +/-, TOI and maybe even some other interesting tidbits you're sure to find. Then, report back to us your findings so we can make a better judgement. Please take your time......

quote:Originally posted by SlantosI don't care if 1% of D-Men get 75+ points, my point is the other 99% of D-Men could have done it to, get it now?

Yeah, and goalies should outscore everyone cuz they get more ice time! Give your head a shake, you're really making yourself look more silly with each and every ridiculous comment like this one above.

quote:Originally posted by SlantosAlso I never said every single one of those players had more of an impact on Florida's success did I? But all as a group... That's what I was getting at anyway.

Oh brother, here we go again. I call you out for a foolish comment, and now you're giving it the patented "Slantos Spin" to try to make it seem as though you meant something entirely different. Nice try! It's almost worse, what you're saying now! Really, you think that a group of 9 starters might have played a little larger role than 1 guy? Uh yeah, thanks for letting us in on that big secret. Keep up the good work!

quote:Originally posted by SlantosAnd I never decided what stats are relevant, just stated the stats that have been most relevant in deciding the past 3 winners of the award.

And common sense says, that there are 3 MAIN stats that should be used to judge the "player adjudged to have exhibited the best type of sportsmanship and gentlemanly conduct combined with a high standard of playing ability". They are, Points, +/-, and PIM's.. (MAINLY POINTS) If you can think of any other stats that could be used to judge this feel free to let me know.

Really? You don't think that members of the "Professional Hockey Writers Association" are perhaps capable of looking at the whole picture? Maybe looking at time on ice, blocked shots, PP/PK time, time played in important situations, etc, etc. I'm not saying that some don't simply look at points and PIMs and throw their vote in that way for such a low profile award, but i bet some actually take the responsibility to look at the entire package.

quote:Originally posted by SlantosAnd do you really consider it a compliment for a defenseman to be called "gentlemanly"?

Uh, did i miss something? Did i say i consider it a compliment? Do i care who wins this award? NO, NO, and NO! This is completely irrelavent to what we've been talking about. I'm not sure why you even brought this up? Please, spare us an explanation.

BTW Slantos.....you might wanna get ahold of this guy (link below). He's already cast his vote (as have all the voters) and you may wanna send him the link to this thread so he knows he's possibly contributing to making the "biggest mistake in the history of the award"!

Posted - 04/24/2012 : 18:17:43 Slantos between all your posts in this thread you have probably wrote a 2000 word essay and have said absolutely nothing. Alex has proven that you contradict yourself and bend STATS to support your argument.

"I don't care if 1% of D-Men get 75+ points, my point is the other 99% of D-Men could have done it to, get it now?"

I really don't understand this argument, by this logic I could say that just because 1% of forwards had over 100 points doesn't mean the other 99% (including Eberle) couldn't have. Do you get it now? A defencemen getting 50 points is equivalent if not better than a forward getting 70points.

"They are, Points, +/-, and PIM's.. (MAINLY POINTS) If you can think of any other stats that could be used to judge this feel free to let me know."

I would say TOI should come into play in this, also weather your team made it to the playoffs should be a factor.

And do you really consider it a compliment for a defenseman to be called "gentlemanly"?

Yes, if my defencemen is effective and dons't take penalties absolutely I would love to have him on my team.

"Also I never said every single one of those players had more of an impact on Florida's success did I?"

Yes you did say that

"Also just because Campbell's team finished higher, doesn't mean they finished higher even partially because of him (Versteeg, Fleischmann, Weiss, Bergenheim, Kopecky, Madden, Samuelsson, Gudbranson, Theodore, all played just as big of role, if not more so in Florida finishing high)"

See where you say "all played just as big of role,if not more so"

This would be like me saying Jones had as much of an impact if not more so in Edmonton having any success, it's just not true.

of Eberle you say : "(He also would have led 18 other NHL teams in points if he were on them, not just the Oilers)"

How can you know this, Eberle is a good player but wouldn't play the kind of minutes he has played for Edmonton this year if he were on another team, in fact had he been drafted by another team he may not even be in the NHL yet(or maybe this would be his rookie season). Do you think Eberle would lead Boston is scoring because he got more points then anyone on that team? He probably wouldn't even crack their top six.

"And yes, I was only stating stats from the last 3 years, because if Eberle doesn't win it will be as big of mistake, as if one of the previous 3 winners had not won.. As their stats are extremely similar, that's the point I was trying to get across."

Eberle has 20 points less than previous winners, how is that "extremely similar"

SLANTOS- could you please just acknowledge that no one is saying Eberle shouldn't win, they are just saying that if one of the others wins they are as deserving and it wouldn't be "the biggest mistake in the history if the award''

"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."Don Cherry on Visors

Posted - 04/24/2012 : 17:23:09 Also if your going to say that stats haven't been the only things used to judge the award over the last 4 years... Is it just a HUGE coincidence that the last FOUR winners, have posted better numbers in at least 2/3 of the main relevant categories I've stated?

You'll have a tough time convincing me of that, as I don't believe in coincidences (especially when it's OBVIOUSLY NOT a coincidence)

JDC

Slantos

Posted - 04/24/2012 : 16:55:17 I agree refs should vote on this as well, as they of all people would know best, who's the most gentlemanly. But since they don't, stats are the only logical way to judge the winner, and STATISTICALLY Eberle is the most deserving. And from the last 3 winners, it seems like it has been judged on stats, as if you looks at their stats, it looks like there's been a certain similarity of statistics.

I don't care if 1% of D-Men get 75+ points, my point is the other 99% of D-Men could have done it to, get it now?

And seeing as +/- has alot to do with the caliber of team a players on, seeing as both the other nominees were on a better team than Eberle, why is their +/- worse? And Eberle's +/- was better on a worse team? Doesn't that say something about who's playing at "a higher standard of playing ability"? (+/- was not AS relevant in deciding the last 3 winners as points was, but YES I realize it is and was apart of deciding who's playing at "a higher standard of playing ability")

Also I never said every single one of those players had more of an impact on Florida's success did I? But all as a group... That's what I was getting at anyway.

And I never decided what stats are relevant, just stated the stats that have been most relevant in deciding the past 3 winners of the award.

And common sense says, that there are 3 MAIN stats that should be used to judge the "player adjudged to have exhibited the best type of sportsmanship and gentlemanly conduct combined with a high standard of playing ability". They are, Points, +/-, and PIM's.. (MAINLY POINTS) If you can think of any other stats that could be used to judge this feel free to let me know.

And do you really consider it a compliment for a defenseman to be called "gentlemanly"? Cuz I sure don't want a "gentlemanly" defenseman on my team... I want a Weber, Chara, Bieksa, Suter, Pronger, Staal, or any defenseman that will go out there and bash someones head in!

JDC

Alex116

Posted - 04/24/2012 : 15:47:36

quote:Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

If I could virtually high 5 you Alex I would. Dont take this the wrong way was the best icon I could find. All points I wanted bring up. Either way if Eberle wins it I aint gonna go (noooooooo!) that SOB stole a win away from Moulson or Campbell. I actually like Eberle, but I like the other 2 as well. I just haven't developed the man crush Slantos has

Lol, i hear ya. I love Eberle as well and would have absolutely NO COMPLAINT if he does win it. It just simply isn't a foregone conclussion that Slantos seems to think it is. I don't even care if he gets 100% of the votes, it doesn't mean every single voter had trouble deciding, it's just that close!