Former Thatcher Speechwriter on Her Legacy

4/17/2013 11:16PM

During much of the 80's John O'Sullivan served as special advisor and speechwriter to Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher. In this interview, Mr. O'Sullivan shares memories of working with Prime Minister Thatcher at No. 10 Downing Street. "Uncommon Knowledge with Peter Robinson" is produced by The Hoover Institution.

This transcript has been automatically generated and may not be 100% accurate.

... attended by the Queen her final writes represent the first ceremonial funeral for Prime Minister ... Tun status or Winston Churchill ... the right honorable Margaret told us that share ... the Baroness Thatcher to Steven ... and from nineteen seventy nine to nineteen ninety ... the prime minister of the United Kingdom ... today an uncommon knowledge a man who knew Lady Thatcher for more than forty years ... joining us from London ... the author and journalist John O'Sullivan ... on common knowledge ... now ... the the the the ... gentle soul who grew up in the north of England ... received his degree from the University of Liverpool ... and has had an extensive career as a journalist on both sides of the Atlantic ... serving for example as parliamentary sketch writer for the London Telegraph ... and as editor in chief of the American magazine ... National review ... during much of the nineteen eighties Mr O'Sullivan served at number ten Downing Street ... as special advisor and speechwriter ... to Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher ... Mr O'Sullivan is author of the bestselling book the president the Pope ... and the prime minister ... free to change the world ... John let me begin by quoting to Margaret Thatcher quote on loan ... to pay ... I don't expect anyone to just sit there ... and agree with me ... close call ... John when and how did you first meet Margaret Thatcher ... well ... I first met Sam ... Newman launched in the House of Commons ... when it was a small group of prominent she's kept rises people who ... treated column and his into a ... drama and wrote a review it ... and she was the midst of education ... I was the only conservative around the table possible ... I was a disciple of Milton Friedman just back from California ... with exciting details of the bunches scheme ... the budget's bottom alum Rock which I started to preach ... and she was in the Liberal government fundamental Tenet he ... didn't have the freedom of action and anywhere that state as was ... she reached the point of Alenia educational vouchers ... but she disagreed with me and that of us attempting don't buckle ... them back in full sun of ... about twenty minutes ... when she left ... that everyone else from the table all these nestling it's it's televised event as laughing ... among them said to me you know ... he'll get a buzz there's gotta be time for a ship of the fictional some kind of dangerous of those ... but she later on I discovered that as you said ... Mrs Thatcher love people to log in with a sheen of debate ... she loved all given she loved him and the owner ... great article combat that was all in called to ... and and ... people who wanted it went up in your estimation ... she tended to like them ... and so I was lucky ... from that point on um whatever she's still amid the Commons and elsewhere ... she knew her ... and she she she knew what I was was a Memphis will ... Bharti did I do think that that ... that debate was from a right to ... say she knew I wasn't sauce ... the bowl I was one of us ... see ... John that would've been what you did you say nineteen seventy two or so seventy two the now ... than she was a minister in the Heath government ... out of office in nineteen seventy five the conservative party holds an election ... anyone would have told you in a close political observer would have told you even a few days before the election ... the Keith Joseph not Margaret Thatcher but her friend Keith Joseph would challenge ... the then former Prime Minister Edward Heath ... for the leadership of the conservative party in the event Margaret Thatcher ... challenge Keith and defeated him ... in that contest with Margaret Thatcher come from ... well that's good question ... still if you have a minor one I'm afraid ... a of the day to day two after the election uncertainty for a second election ... I rang up peaches below was from shelves ... Thomas said in a deal being taken to the cleaners ... because you don't have a good press operation ... this is when you say the nineteen seventy four liking that's when the government was defeated for the second time ... before the second time right now for the second time it lost two elections ... write in you ... and am ... on the Sunday after the Thursday ... though we're and keep top ... trend naive calling on the day ... and we sit Daniel being taken to the key is because you didn't have a good press operation ... and at the flea you getting ... days like today in which every major front page story was how ... we libel was going to succeed Ted Heath and it'll be just itch to stitch up ... well ... Keith said is very interesting judgment come and see me tomorrow ... so um we turned up at eleven o'clock ... the night stand ... until this into a waiting room gear was two cups of coffee ... in the door opened and in walked Mrs Thatcher ... well we did analysis actuality she knew me maybe a supposed adopted anonymous previous occasion ... achieved his sets up by saying ... the money judgment I am sick chief Joseph's campaign manager ... what can you tell me well we hadn't gone on large ... long conversation with an interesting ... but the upshot it was because ... that keeps facial Katherine's new himself up ... he made this is the kindest most considerate ... and most casual of man ... that he made a speech in which the question to ask Linksys geologists are citing ... the social classes four and five ... and the fact that they had a lot of children whom they ... didn't look to the well will bring out while ... producing a cycle of deprivation ... the Empress and said that what he was that she was ... less control for the working classes ... Reagan a vessel any activist role ... this is not to step into his place ... and ... she folds an extremely tough ... of a campaign of a tough campaign was full of force against ... as well but she came at the winter ... and them and I've just been reading the diaries of ... a labor and safety State Barbara Castle ... who writes in The dies that she was thrilled ... by Mrs Thatcher's emotions even though ... it was to be good for the Labor Party she said in even though it wasn't to be ... and if it was going to be good for the things she believed and ... still is a wonderful fall within ... the day was wonderful to see a woman ... who had such command and control ... John won the quarter to you once again Margaret Thatcher I am not a consensus politician ... I am a conviction politician she repeated that often want ... she repeated that these are ... the cause ... in the jargon of the day ... people thought that they should aim at consensus ... so we'll sit around the table ... you believe an a I believe be so we end up agreeing on Sea ... and she said well ... that's all very well ... when there's this narrow difference between you and you ... can do but he stepped ... on how best to implement a common friend ... but is not going to work if you are getting about principles ... and what has gone wrong with his country ... in the last thirty forty years ... the token that she said this nineteen ... seventy five what is going wrong with these is that people throw away their principles ... they've drawn alongside the principles they say they believe in liberty and free enterprise ... the moment they get in ... and enemies of it trying ... to do a deal with the labor union so with the opposition ... the label posse ... all with the ... powerful vested interests ... the only industry ... him into a contest which were ... not really in favor of free and ... so they often use the time ... but were in favor of corporate enterprise ... in which governments and corporations got together and decided between them often with the trade union cooperation ... and how best to govern the country ... almost in respect of ... the policies discussed in the previous general action ... one more quotation from Mrs Thatcher before she became prime minister then of course will discuss her years as prime minister ... this is two years before she became prime minister ... but we must not focus our attention exclusively on the material ... because though important is not the main issue the economic success of the Western world is a product a product of its moral philosophy ... the economic results are better because the moral philosophy is superior ... because it starts with the individual ... moral of this moral that is it ... fair to say ... that Mrs Thatcher didn't merely want Britain to become more prosperous in some fundamental way she wanted it to become ... better ... that is exactly right ... now when she stopped it in politics ... the way for Britain to become best of people fall ... was for its policies this government policies to the bid ... to become all compassionate ... to extend the welfare states ... to relieve policy ... to assist people to cope with the difficulties of life ... you know it's a great deal of good was achieved ... in this year's because of that ... but ... those um ... what what Mrs had to sell ... me on the ... unloading and how people right in the past ... not fully grasp it seemed to me ... is that she sold that there was a moment sense of the chips ... that the Britain needed to have which added always ... on ... the weekend and somehow lost sight of ... in the fifties sixties seventies ... unease fetches who want to show the Robin met with Duke ... was a friend of Mrs. she is also by way of grace and will American political ... interest ... much of a rubber mat when cold ... and the vigorous that she is ... the isthe virtues such as thrift ... hog glut ... enterprise ... and these virtues ... are essential ... to governments to the one to booking living in a free society ... unless help someone who possesses them you call it self reliant us ... and unless ... the dispenser the population ... expect all pharmacies to be disposed of the population under ... isn't of any use it well ... a The and that say you have a country this ... is nine tenths of products ... and investments simply isn't going to be a country ... that is successful ... either politically Omar early on economically ... she sold it ... and it was very much part of an ... internal engine ... however ... it came to from her upbringing and it's very important to realize that this is such a ... is a product of a certain kind of offering ... and the upbringing ... of of the store in Grantham England ... I'd say two things about the ... festival audience it was above the store in Grantham in ... and eat peas planted it and the provincial values the values of provincial England ... in the nineteen twenties and nineteen cents to one spot ... that when Metropolitan ... what they Wela ... and saw bids that with a vigorous purchase them in the case Mrs Thatcher ... she was in those nations who added to ... by an understanding of this simple but to pull level of how markets work she lived behind the stall ... if you into a ... good progress is stored in the nineteen twenties the veggies to see a cause of coffee beans ... is heaping piles of salt crystal Thomas ... labeled ... them from and for Greece ... it see all of these products and she relies ... on different conversations with the father to things than actually colors ... that I'm she realized ... that the free market has taken ... all the efforts of people in places like Egypt and Turkey and France in the United States ... and brought all these goats ... and two grandsons ... well caught people caught modest means ... could afford to buy a ... file that these things ... out was one off the second Hoff was the message is she was brought up to be ... a good method is now ... um she was the she she and I look I think that ... we often discuss these questions and she had an infection ... in the kind of sneaky and the Wii ... fit Catholicism because ... the traffic goes on the ... go into the FSB you are allowed to wear ribbons ... where is the message that said if the latter him and ... it's the first step to roam ... the low was a was a very un Speea somewhat stern religion ... except in relation to music when ... it has a wonderful musical tradition ... the effect of the messages and was ... in economic questions ... is to urge people ... to make sure that they paid the full cost in the well ... she is still the favorite quotation almost one of her favorites ... was won from John Wesley the founder of messages has said ... when you can ... save forty ... give what you can ... and I think that that that ... process ... the analysts said ... in a cutie but ... are you going to St and the you've got to show some of what to say ... sorry on experts as funny ... with all the people ... and them and that that kind of ... religion was I think the ... most Firebase's from assumptions ... and beliefs and actions ... John what you make of it than that ... the crisis of the final phase of the cold war ... Margaret Thatcher becomes prime minister in nineteen seventy nine throughout most of the seventies the Soviets are on the advance ... Ronald Reagan is elected nineteen eighty takes office in January nineteen eighty nine ... but in this final crisis the United States had a man from the American heartland ... this occurred to me as you're speaking just now and his values were nvm anyway so similar ... to those of the prime minister from middle England ... your right to live ... and to buy is of our eight of the bodies of honor ... to ... lead I that's absolutely identical calls ... but the overlap between them was so fun ... and sexy says that yes ... they save costs on the right away they knew what the other was about ... each of them have a sense ... of the other person's body is sometimes analyses ... and and then they liked each other ... in any payments last ... shortly after she become a leader ... in the header over the House of Commons ... and the meeting which enjoy nothing to last for a hold on to ... it ran on and on ... and at the end of it Reagan had agreed to send ... Mrs that to all his and radio broadcasts to the scripts ... and his columnist ... and stay in touch ... enabled stay in touch ... and um ... she ... I think soul something in him right away ... which ... was received ... he eventually developed a very broad view of ringgit to ... realize what he was a bad ... bets that she was nothing slightly sells stock ... she was impressed by ... buying his stall quality ... lady was later on that she came to see ... what real ABB says apparent easygoing next to him ... John and ... Margaret Thatcher becomes prime minister in nineteen eighty two ... contentious years she struggles ... in April nineteen eighty two the military junta in Argentina invaded the Falkland Islands ... which could be in a British since the eighteenth century ... Prime Minister Thatcher sent an Expeditionary force ... to the South Atlantic to expel the origin times ... after hundreds of deaths ... on both sides it is often forgot that the Falklands war was announced that it was a war ... in June nineteen eighty two the Argent Heinz ... surrender ... what can victory in the Falklands mean to Britain ... well it meant a great deal ... and I'll explain why ... but I've decided to let me just go but will ask us to say ... one of the things which lead to break into action ... that was the patient is ... each of them all of that country I was proud of it ... so what's so ... bad that in the nineteen seventy nine election ... which was talking to Michael Bronson report from CNN ... this is such a m bus that would fall in was ... an icon ... that Brittany in decline as some think on that ... if you want to get a single ... explanation ... that will explain what fractures and among Mrs Thatcher was the one above ... at the end that sentence will give it to you ... they well by which ... reversing the decline in great Britain ... and she felt it terribly strongly ... held when she ... when she fought the election ... and she did so ... and by presenting a program ... to reverse the decline in economic times because I was that was seen ... amid the debris from the late seventies was in a terrible mass ... and inflation ... Ovum I see labor unions ... endless strikes all these things ... meant that the economy was doing very badly ... but it was also have been in a bad way ... in millet re on terms of pages is much that so ... and since owns ... the bridge actually had some ... remarkable foreign policy successes ... in the sixties like read some pull ... and the delay in the US will be minimal and images in the fifties and then ... and defeat CNBC's and the attempt by ... the sitcom Ellen engine ease its takeover of boating when ... it ... talked about for the considerable successes ... but the motive ... was all self content ... and the belief of the British could do not think ... they could do nothing at home they could do nothing economically they could do nothing in foreign policy ... we won a contemptible ... and that something ... which she had felt strongly against ... the the Falklands Wall was the type of mini kit Monday's game ... of course how could it be ... it was a bit of the game plan of the auction time jobs ... but the point was when it actually happened ... Mrs Thatcher realize something which the missus was slow to realize ... she'll realize that she had been told by history ... if you go to solve the decline of Britain ... this is late stops ... it up a stall with the economy ... Doherty doing things other than to take time to Mitchell ... but if this is a war even as forty didn't want ... but it's one year after when ... you have to do with it ... become be some kind of moderate compromise of fudge ... begins the antibody hall for what they want ... and that's why she took the decision to send ... the Indiana Ahmad that down to five full that it was risky ... it was dangerous it might mean people being killed which it did mean as he said ... it might mean if the British lost in the clothes ... that we had that she would lose office ... but but the fact was ... if she didn't do this ... then the whole project of refined reviving Brent refining it and increases ... would be lost ... in ... nineteen eighty four John ... the governor proposes to close twenty of the one hundred and seventy five coal mines that it owns ... the head of the National Union of Mineworkers Arthur's Cargill who was a public and avowed Marxist ... takes his union ... out on strike ... Prime Minister Thatcher quote ... we had to fight the enemy without in the Falklands ... we always have to be aware of the enemy within ... which is much more difficult to fight and more dangerous to liberty close call ... the Prime Minister refuses to meet the union's demands and after a year out on strike ... the union concedes going back to work ... by nineteen ninety four the Thatcher government had closed ... dozens of unprofitable mines ... and privatized the rest ... in defeating the National Union of Mineworkers John ... what what did Prime Minister Thatcher accompli ... well ... that this was his second great victory comparable in domestic politics ... to and winning the full funds will ... be cars ... the ... the conservative party but not just a consent upon sea ... of pink spectrum of British political life ... and the establishment ... had convinced themselves the nineteen seventies ... that he ... might do many things but you can never defeat the labor union says he was determined to fight you ... and that was thought to be particularly true ... of the mind is union which has noted in the news the brigade of guards ... of the union movement ... so um when I had the was ... in nineteen eighty one ... and forty is the flaws in the event you are talking about ... when when I say she wan ... at its Godzilla and the miner's Union prison today ... demands which were again difficult ... this is such a basic human ran the cabinet table and said ... can we win this one ... and the conclusion was the cops ... so she did to thinks she gave in in nineteen eighty one ... and she began the preparations defines ... a bottle ... se winds later on ... that mainly for example ... she made sure that the stocks of coal ... at the pits Hanwha built up ... that the web see kill ads in communication with me she could get the cold ... to the am ... stations ... that kind of thing ... and this has been ... self conscious deliberate policy ... from nineteen eighty one onwards ... now it's up to all ... and decided that he would ... defeat them be the impact of them as he had defeat in ... the Heath government or in the fall ... he caught on by the weight gets his mind is to vote for a national strike ... when people talk about that they forget that ... he basically got one that Daddy is ok ... to vote for the strike and then he said those miners as flying pickets ... essentially to bully and intimidate mind is elsewhere ... to want ... to comment on strike ... they didn't always succeed the Notting of the mind is produced coal throughout the strike ... in defiance of the National Union ... and then the and as a result that was one of the reasons why the strike ... that is the fact that a strike would be ... not compromised away the app to BP ... was crucial because ... it meant that all of the reforms that she was pushing through ... when no one simply on the second book ... but everybody knew ... that the latter an entrenched in entrenched in practical ... politics ... and they were going to be the future ... there was no turning back on ... and as a result ... people could invest in the country with critical finance ... managers can manage with great confidence ... and in general with the British capitalism was back ... one key well again ... and and and finally ... these policies when that's the common than you common sense ... the British politics ... so ... Margaret Thatcher ... means the war in the Falklands ... she wins a war here at home as you mentioned this ... fight against the National Union of the mine workers union ... had a military aspect the logistical undertaking is stockpiling coal and making sure the lines of transport were open ... and yet you once told me that Mrs Thatcher was the kind of woman ... who likes to pull the pillows in a row ... explain that to ... well I think it's a inexplicably ... and history of personality isn't it ... and I it's always said that Mrs Thatcher was a ... combination of two ... countries reaches ... a along ... Anna was the in all a very British housewife ... likenesses noted that in the famous nineteen forties with me ... to do like going around ... they can show that everyone was comfortable that Noah was seated in the draft ... that the cushions look nice ... that the tea was being properly so so so full ... of the other was just powering his article three ... to four schools ... and defeat it and a massive unions and strikes ... who was ... brave ... and ... that from the front ... I he and competence ... in debates ... and in an admonition to politics making shawl ... that the decisions that were reached ... and we went through in animal science and everybody this way ... and the teddy of that so and so was the head ... and in many respects he wanted to sell some of the same policies but you know ... the difference between them is this ... when she decided on the policy ... she got the House of Commons to agree to it and ... begun tool ... sheep this year and that policy ... through the Cardinals a pound in one school ... she went to endless commissions she made chili wasn't just ... something that ... people talked about is actually happened ... government did its ... and this is a kind of administered to stamina ... which explains the greatest success ... that she enjoyed ... the oval that ... many of those policies became laughable than press releases ... and ... Johnny order speechwriter what was it like to work with her on this beach ... hope is growing ... Agnelli was cruelly media stocks in the morning very often for example ... very fast on my roots ... and I I had done the draft of the strength of the speech ... I go in the room that half the table she's the ... seller bouts of Sena's of the people are going to help the Vikings speech ... she then says I was immensely pleased about this ... and well jealous of terrific sense trap of being the hot new data doesn't make you read that the sentiments ... the ICE soul that no one else from the table ... AXA's indicted they just carried on looking ... bulletin suspicious and then we stopped in work that was up nine in the morning ... three the following morning we got up and left the room ... having lifted only goals of nature ... and this being said why we're in the room ... by pots of coffee and sandwiches St ... and you know every speech she gave ... lady herself was in the room until three in the mornings actually get all the time ... and stayed in when she gave a major speech ... the Center Party annual conference ... it would go through five rounds ... it was sometimes does his fearful of its work ... unless a speech by going through three drafts but still be a holiday ... so she took speeches serious ... and the reason was she said ... that this was a way ... of getting the government's political policy as ... it if you spend all time ... working in government ... and all thinking about how the policies of the present ... she said she wouldn't become a bad team to become ... a super civil servant ... and the policies would be an as of the civil service ... to another the day went on to the case so effectively she did ... time to time ... and to not have to sit down and think in political times why is this attracted ... why will people but for this ... one so what are our weaknesses ... how was the label posterior we have two we attack them on ... this kind of questions ... competing with them in long sessions in which she ... one of A's can produce a speech ... John Daniel took the president the Pope and the prime minister ... you describe all three President Reagan Pope John Paul the second Prime Minister Thatcher is central ... to winning the cold war No Reagan's role is clear is the leader of the superpower ... John Paul the second he's the Pope who goes to Poland ... and there's an open air mass that draws three million people and before the whole world demonstrates the legitimacy ... of the Communist regime in Poland and throughout Eastern Europe ... Margaret Thatcher is prime minister of a middling ... power she won the war in the Falklands but remains ... by comparison with the Soviet Union and United States ... a middling hour ... how did she prove central ... to the end of the cold war ... I would say in a number of lines that's all ... I'll talk about the symbols that way it's ... one of them was that ... for example when ... the man and when they are the Polish government there at the insistence of solving its ... crackdown on solidarity ... she under a can ... with two politicians who ... gave ... practical help ... as well as diplomatic support ... to solidarity and the Polish people ... and she was a and and they did this with the Pope them through the Pope ... to church travels to fail ... but she was a full and a lot of of all the ... and Western European heads of government Mrs Thatcher was clearly ... the the head of government most of the Valley and practically said that the Amish people ... so should push the ball ... secondly ... the roof he will want a very key moment in winning the cold will ... walls of the year the installation of the Miss aisles ... in West in your of American business in Western Europe ... to counter the Soviet ... SS twenty cities to be a ... nineteen eighty three its fifth straight sessions as they did before so ... this was highly controversial ... in Western Europe there was a huge peace movement ... almost all the less when Contec's ... and abandon their previous support for these links to these styles ... some of the conservative parties became distinctly wildly ... this is such a ... snot wobbling for one moment in the ... she went to considerable lengths to go to the ... one and Western European prime ministers and presidents ... and ... strive to stiffen the resolve to keep them is that in one case ... she accepted summit styles ... that that that in this case and Helmut Schmidt did know what to expect ... now ... that ... that was the key moment in the cold will ... solve its two am reading into ... Apple ... helps didn't they could to help with the relaunch peace movement ... and they lost ... then the Miss aisles were installed and at that point it became impossible ... for this obvious to win the cold will ... the best they can helpful ... was that it would be a result sometimes the one documentary eighteen ... they then says and the Fed is an introduction and two missed a goal to tell ... to commemorate an inherent Allston's of him ... as a way of allowing everybody to get ethical will ... match the glycol one ... what did you say about her fundamentally new view ... of the Soviet Union that one of the first people she asked to advise her ... after becoming prime minister in nineteen seventy nine ... was the historian Robert conquest ... what it tells you that she was ... the of a sensible ... and able ... to create a critic of the scholarship that time ... ABBA that much of this ... I mean Robin opener of a compass and his friend of mine at the post reveals ... that Rob accompanist ... was somebody who was established in the seventies ... the role is the principal so intelligence ... who was as skeptical ... calls and the piece that promises an ... act of choosing subjects ... and his book The Great era ... and had become the Bible ... the people who will add five launch ... and robust ... and and re level headed unrealistic ... in their resistance to Soviet propaganda ... and the resistance to ... the advance so it's in the ... in all sorts of ways in Western Europe and that this was the wrong maybe through established elsewhere ... now I'm ... in the nineteen nineteen seventy five filthy after becoming leader ... and some pockets of Tory policy ... Mrs Thatcher ... and next and roll Congress ... that he wrote the speech one of two speeches that led to her ... if you do it because in the town hall I think ... now that it's becoming ... had dubbed the Iron Lady By of the red star the army of the readily ... as so ... a he was somebody whom she was aware of ... he became a ... strong advice is to ... on foreign policy questions in general ... and she was she made reliant on his advice ... a single through the period ... in in ... in in in office and cost him a good friend ... John ... of ... Reagan and Thatcher close friends ... allies in this large cause of winning the cold war in reviving the last ... but what it was a friendship that had its complications ... for example ... and this may be the most important difference between them ... this is that you're quite consistently ... opposed tried to get an commutes to contain the limit ... Reagan's strategic Defense initiative ... and yet in her memoir she writes I quote ... looking back it is now clear to me the Ronald Reagan's the regional decision ... on STI was the single most important ... of his presidency close call what was going on on that issue ... festival ... activities saying ... these two then that intimate something which is ... the oldest in what he does in Western Europe she was always the most favorable ... to the two as the ads it is the strategic Defense initiative she ... and she said so long cuz bubble favorable to the narrow Foreign office ... and she and an invite to the Americans ... to bring British companies into the recession development of the STI ... so yes ... she what she was critical ... was the idea ... that it could provide a complete defense ... against Miss aisles ... and now ... and we can argue about that ... and ... the fact was that she got angry with the Reagan did to make it because ... if he were an almost gave away ... and the maintenance of the meimei style ... and ... the second set a second strike ... in those talks ... and she felt that if and when we could no longer rely ... on American discounts to defend ... West in your up ... and then we would have to spend a great deal more money on conventional defense ... and that that was above a rational argument ... frankly it's moot because the collapse of the Soviet Union shortly afterwards ... meant that we never have to think about that threat ... but at the time it seemed a very Restall on Tuesday and even the end of it as you say it took them a lot of its ... but what happened cool says ... after the end of the cold will ... pull the child's advisors came absence and the most direct way to Princeton conference ... thats an STI ... has ended in the stall will speech ... at basically brought the Russians to the realistic ... conclusion they couldn't win the cold wall ... and that they have to do that together with the installation of Miss aisles ... in Western Europe meant that they have to come the conference table ... and and that I think you have ... a new resolve the contradiction the you sold ... in what she said the demand was and what she said that I'm ... the and ... in nineteen ninety eight Margaret Thatcher's forced from office by a faction within ... her own conservative party ... her friend the historian Paul Johnson writing in the Wall Street Journal last week ... quoted was a melancholy fact ... that she could become more imperious during her years of trying on clothes quo ... is that what happened on that after eleven years as Prime Minister ... Margaret Thatcher just became ... too much to take anymore ... no I don't think that is what ... happened ... on the inside of me what happened she might just be too much to take ... the cabinet minutes is an alliance ... and that she wouldn't of been too much to take for the British people ... what happened ... was that in and and and on the mechanics of this I think ... the cop ... a fall of explanation ... but ... as a result of shadowing the village clock ... and the policies ... designed to mop up the inflation ... that shadowing the village pop ... may have contributed to and I'm ... may she find herself that she found a signal achievement ... of the Fed's two terms namely ... that is ... to defeat over and control of inflation ... being put at risk ... in making a shawl ... that we're meant remains unknown inflationary ... this society and country ... of ... effectively ... meant that a harsh measures ... of restricting credit people also houses ... it didn't intend to change the political atmosphere which every of the battle was being foolish people mention the poll tax yes ... Apotex was unpopular she couldn't survive that's can it have me for the underlying deterioration ... in economic situation ... and and and and that was the case and in the ... years that led to sample the pianist this ... the British people memo Monday that while she was winning battles ... and it is was when some of them victories came in to bat was ... that that that ... that that that appearances became perhaps ... less persuasive ... less admirable ... junk and you can trust ... for an American audience ... contrast Britain in nineteen seventy nine when Mrs Thatcher became prime minister ... with Britain eleven years later in nineteen ninety when she stepped down ... well ... the most of the eleventh of it this way ... in nineteen the Sunday night we had the winter of discontent from ... all of the strikes and all of the consequence is ... we've discussed the fall of ... the dead dying and buried the rubbish piling up and about this class ... strikers turning away ha patients from hospitals ... um and ... it when she left office ... the bread was the fourth largest economy in the world ... and even beyond that ... and b the British economy continued to fold its early itself ... and all through the nineties and into Tony Blair's paid of office ... in fact have an impact ... on Mrs taxes reputation on Obama's reputation worldwide ... some other things being written about by any official and semi official press in China ... Asia has long ... had a very high opinion ... of ... Mrs Thatcher ... had been champing syphilis began ... that this all has to don't buy the same time he said he was an inspiration for the ... they both possibly drew some inspiration from weak when you ... and in ... the week when u dun Champagne and others ... have ... sold ... Mrs Thatcher as a formidable ... reform ... and they've never change that view ... in general as a production that made the full piece when you ask me about cubicle wall ... Mr. Saks's principal ... and ... principal contribution in the cold will whether economic reforms ... and because the solving its ... public safety in Moscow ... was able to look ... and they had seventy years ... of enforcing socialists and on some B and society ... is to produce an economic wasteland ... she had ... just ... had long decade ... of opening up between two ... and a free market society ... based on some money ... and backs it produced an extraordinary revival ... revival which continued until two thousand and eight ... when Walsall economies run into a brick wall although by the way ... towards the end of that period ... and go to friends and an intensely Shipping traineeship ... did a great deal ... to weaken the British economy that she had successfully built up ... but but but that's just for them to buy ... and I am ... in nineteen seventy six seven eight ... PM ... the IMF and the men from the IMF was sent in ... to revise need to post of the British economy ... than on the verge of collapse ... not long afterwards Mrs Thatcher ... was going on the world giving advice to people who want to know how she'd wet these miracles ... John you knew her for some four decades more than four decades if we start ... from the first meeting in the House of Commons when you have that raw with her ... but even in this about her ... of ... well ... it's it's just ... setting really because ... one expects people to the SEC names two to dial isn't ... and ... that one is never ... when one is still to Bisbee surprise but ... I was kind of surprise home so he says she is mostly in the ... one thing it won't sold ... and a lot of people at Phantom Ranch me ... because they don't know whether they wanted to ... write to somebody who didn't know and Express ... that adoration for and the feeling of loss to the punch ... so ... she left a very big hole in the well ... and that she left a hole in the lives of people who did know that ticket and what did Miller told ... and because they looked to have ... someone who doesn't read achieved a great deal ... so someone who represented the vanity is ... who was the champion ... of the kind of decent small role upon waking life ... that day she believed in and that they believed in ... and that somehow or other ... gets past the sign on ... despised all ... anyway will celebrate it is a perhaps a Victorian celebration ... so I'm what will miss the simplest but I will subpoenas the fact ... that she was ... an entertaining and amusing ... companion Dew Mrs that to soften and some criticize Sabine ... Doll identified dislike the Dell ... and she sometimes ... criticizes and going on about things but she certainly did ... but you know when that day was over ... and then she and ... she would ... go into ... their offices in ten Downing Street ... kick off her shoes ... says on the couch ... say two meals Toll's Palos one of the people that ... I'm ... maybe a nice whiskey and then ... the team to open up sheets a cheap tell you can say the most in discrete things that ... and ... so she could do that because she relied on the discretion ... of the people who are companions ... but one bobbin education ... diplomacy foreign policy and economics ... by sitting on the opposite side of the table from that ... collection into drinker ... at the same time ... as I said as we discussed ability to ... do this was the will of the goal of the one hand ... the solid game with Reagan ... debasing a gas pipeline called Billy goat with Siegel which of ... was this uses a woman who's coming into the kitchen making bacon and eggs ... when this piece rises need to be fed up to ten ... thousand won ... John final question we only have a couple of minutes ... lady Thatcher's funeral a great affair of state conducted according to British tradition ... and emphasizing I think in a way the basic continuity of British life beginning with Churchill his strict state funeral ... on now to laying to rest this woman who helped to win the Cold War ... and it seems to me the to do that ... the state occasion will cause an implicit question to breaking ... more of the same more of this tradition ... the the the the bridge the generation ... Churchill who because we're ... Thatcher who revived the country and won the cold war ... or does ... he turn its back on it and play Ding Dong the witch is dead which apparently is a ... major hit at the moment what will be the meaning of the few Hall ... I think the media the funeral ... will be that this country has lost a great fake ... but that the opportunities for greatness ... and remain ... as if we seize them ... you know that ... she says something about Reagan's funeral ... which is actually initially address to ... um when he became ... the money into government ... the Italian politics ... Antonio Martino ... who was a friend of Lady Thatcher's ... and responded to congratulate read notes ... and she it's a deal to have a hard time that he went back saying yes ... we have a loss of major problems ... as bad as the prom is that you face in nineteen seventy nine ... but she said and thirty cents ... we have one advantage you know that ... we have your needs ... she said that about Raul Reagan ... and I would say that now that ... John O'Sullivan ... special advisor and speechwriter Prime Minister Thatcher and author of the president the Pope and the Prime Minister speaking to us from London ... thank you to ... think of it ... for the Hoover institution in The Wall Street Journal on Peter Robinson ... the the the the ... I ... I ...