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Whats poppin?

What is up good people....hope all is well for you.

Just an update...past few days my buddy have been talking..same old stuff you guys have heard before...both of us miss each other and stuff, saying how things are not the same..in one of our calls I mentioned how girls hit on me now more..and hes like "yeah bri, you go" and I assured him Im not into it..I think a small small part of him thinks it would be easier if I was just straight..but nonetheless he is still accepting...He asked if I ever saw birdcage and he started talking like with a lisp..and I said ha ha funny and hes like its ok Bri I can do that because Im your friend...

Today as I was getting ready for work at 6am I got a call from him saying that hes depressed and that hes worried about work and that he might need some money..and can I help him out??...Without hesitation I said "sure, Ill always have your back.."...Then I let it sink in for a little after I got to work..and Im like...should I help him out..havent I helped him out enough already?...am I bad for even THINKING that I shouldnt help him out right now? I mean i am trying to save and all...I do not know..

I got home from work today and signed on to aol..hes like sign off I want to talk to you...we talk, same shit...he puts me on hold and then comes back to me saying hes got to go soon his friend anthony is coming over..and I start to get all pissy(because im tired from work as it is) and hes like whats up?? and I go I dont really want to hear about your friends your hanging out with..then his girl proceeded to make jokes about how im still in NYC and they are enjoying the warm weather in Vegas...so I was like whatever ...if it wasnt for me her ass would still be in this cold...anyway I hung up with him all pissy an he said to call him later, and I said NAH ill call you soon..and just hung up...I know my friend inside and out..in an odd way he likes that Im jealous of his friends and that I wish I was there...but I know Im doing the right thing by being here for myself....

I dont know...I need to talk or hear feedback...just anything ..speak to you all later..Brian

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Hey everyone....5:13 am here on the east coast....my buddy called me like at 3am my time and we talked till about 5...he said he was very down and that hes in need of help..and that hes been putting off seriously asking me..and now he needs my help again...he says he knows its hard..but he has no other choice..and really..being his "brother", what choice do I really have?? Of course Ill be there for him...always.

Its so hard for me nowadays in terms of my feelings for my buddy. I DO think about him in that way much less...partly because hes so far away and partly because I feel better since coming out to him...but I KNOW he knows that I love him..its just unsaid..and I DO still love him and think a part of me always will. It really is hard...I mean either I am completely fooling myself or maybe hes just deeply emotional..but I tell you.. I think anyone of you guys would feel the same way if you heard the things he tells me..tonight he said Im like no other friend..and him moving out there made him realize how im #1 on his list of friends and people he cares for and how things are not the same..and that when I came out to him that he laughed inside because he thought me being scared to tell him I was gay was silly because he never will judge me or treat me different...

He said as much as he tries, his friends out there are not like me and are not the same and he gets jealous that I hang out with people here and that hes deathly afraid that Im going to end up liking it here and enjoy myself out here and possible stay here..I said but you moved out there with someone who you have been close with for so many years..and someone who is going to be your wife soon..and he said that its not the same...and that its just different with me and her....

Who knows..what I do know is I definitely by August, tell him my feelings for him...I need him to know...Brian

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

^Yea I think you should definately tell him. I guess taking baby steps huh? lol. Who knows maybe he'll want to experiment. Just the fact that he knows that you're there and (if you still want him in a sexual way) he could have you.

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Definitely baby steps!
And let him know, without being so direct, that you're his any way he wants you.

"Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Just read the whole thread. This is very touching. At least you are proud to have someone like him.
I really hope things work well between you both, though I have a feeling that both him and you are suffering a lot this time. I think he misses you so much.

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Hey guys..it has been a little while since I last spoke to you all..figured Id drop in with an update...

Several times during the week my buddy has called me..and I have called him too. Lately hes been calling me like between 4-6am NYC time...I have to admit I love hearing from him right before I start my day...

The last couple of calls went very well..we both said how much we missed each other(i know broken record) and we just have been on the phone for hours..he says he missed the walks and drives we used to go on and how he cant wait for august.

I told him that I felt a little down the past few days and didnt understand why(which I didnt)...he said he felt depressed too because I wasnt there..he said that until I come down here in a year that he wont be able to enjoy himself in Vegas...He said hes been good with staying away from the strip and playing poker and that hes trying to do little things to keep himself busy..He said talking to me relaxes him and makes him smile because talking on the phone makes it seem like we are minutes away from each other...and that after he hangs up he gets depressed because reality hits him...

During one of our talks he would say some things...ask some questions...
"Bri did you enjoy having sex with that girl that time when we were in Vegas last time?"......."Um..not really bro.."...he made some jokes bout how he hopes Im the man when Im having sex with a guy and that I should start putting on lipstick etc...silly humor...and he goes "bri...no one else can joke with this stuff but me".....

He said he worries about me staying out here and he gets very scared that I will..he said he doesnt want our lives to get different or to stray in anyway...

He also stated that hes worried about money...Hes been telling me this for a week or two...and I said "Im holding off on helping you right now"...and he goes "i know....why is that? do you secretly want me to fail out here so I could come back there?"...and I go "no of course not.." and he goes "well i know you dont want me to fail, but i know deep down you wouldnt mind too much because that would mean I am back in NYC.."....I said "bro two things...one..i gave you help to go out there to begin with..why on earth would I want you to go out there with money I gave you and fail?...and two...Im mature enough with myself to know that even that I want you by my side over here right now that even I wouldnt wish you to fail just so I could have that again.." He goes "well I wish I was that mature..because Im not..I wish for some reason you messed up your job and had to come down here.."

He sad any help I could give would be appreciated....We started to end the call..He said Brian..I miss you...and I said..I miss you too....what I wanted to say was I love you....and even if I did I know he would say I love you right back..but I wanted to say..Buddy Im in love WITH you...but anyway..my buddy used to play a song for me in his car(among many)..He always used to point out the line in the song that I bolded(below)I heard it tonight while chillin out here at home...it reminded me of him so much..I miss him dearly ...talk to you all soon bri

Winds of Change..by The Scorpions

I follow the Moskva
Down to Gorky Park
Listening to the wind of change
An August summer night
Soldiers passing by
Listening to the wind of change

The world is closing in
Did you ever thinkThat we could be so close, like brothers
The future's in the air
I can feel it everywhere
Blowing with the wind of change

Take me to the magic of the moment
On a glory night
Where the children of tomorrow dream away
in the wind of change

Walking down the street
Distant memories
Are buried in the past forever
I follow the Moskva
Down to Gorky Park
Listening to the wind of change

Take me to the magic of the moment
On a glory night
Where the children of tomorrow share their dreams
With you and me
Take me to the magic of the moment
On a glory night
Where the children of tomorrow dream away
in the wind of change

The wind of change
Blows straight into the face of time
Like a stormwind that will ring the freedom bell
For peace of mind
Let your balalaika sing
What my guitar wants to say

Take me to the magic of the moment
On a glory night
Where the children of tomorrow share their dreams
With you and me
Take me to the magic of the moment
On a glory night
Where the children of tomorrow dream away
in the wind of change

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

I read that... it makes me hurt right along with you! I keep wishing he'd just pop out and say, "I love you! I want to be with you!" But if it doesn't happen, it doesn't, and that's what you have to live with. Meanmwhile, I can't wait for August to hear how things go!

"Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Yep, yep. It's been said before, wishyouwerehere said it again as I will too. Tell him. Tell him before you go out there in 5 months. Give him time to process it all. You'll feel better, too.

I agree. B/c if you get out there and tell him and he doesn't like it, you wouldn't want to be there and uncomfortable. If you tell him now on the phone it could give him time to process it.

Say something like"it's funny, I had a crush on you for a long time, but after a while it died away", maybe he'll ask do you still have feeligns for him, or you could just say you have and still have one on him.

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

He whats up guys..Im back with another small update...

I was watching the Oscars last night..and fell asleep briefly during the show..when I woke up I found that my buddy left me a message saying that hes just calling to say whats up and that he misses me...I wanted to watch the rest of the show so I didnt call him back and after the show I fell back asleep.

The phone rings at 3:330am east coast time and its my buddy calling. I answer the phone and say

"What up?" He goes "You...I keep thinking about you tonight." We exchange the same old stuff. He says that "Bri I feel like giving up and coming back...I like it here alot but if you are not out here its not the same and I cannot enjoy it." I re-assured him how quick August will come but admitted to him that sometimes I get feelings to stay in NYC for a while longer than I thought. He said he was afraid of that and doesnt want me to be far from him.

We are talking and BS'ng then all of a sudden he goes" You know if I get married..you have to come out here to be my best man.." My heart sank and I mustered what was a VERY weak "Of course bro, you got it.."

We kept saying how much we miss each other..but the marriage comment is still on my mind...I told him of the song I heard the other day that reminded me of us, when we used to go for drives. He thought that was cool and he was just listening to the same song in his car a few days ago.

His mom came down for a visit..and found an apartment in the same complex as him..she is moving there with her trucker boyfriend. I said thats cool..he seemed like he didnt care too much..and I asked him.."Bro..you got your wife there and your mom(she had wanted to move near him for years since leaving NYC, him and his dad for this boyfriend).."..He said "Bri..I dont know, they are not the same..you are the only one that gets me and understands me"...

The comment about marriage was still fresh on my mind. After a few months of meeting my friend he said he knew I would be the best man at his wedding and he asked me like 3 months after knowing me. Thats how close we got and at a fast pace. I asked him "so when you get married, you have to tell me bro..you getting married anytim soon????????"....and he said "Bri..I dont know..I dont even know anymore...." and I left it at that..I should have said..dont know about what???

After another hour of talking..I said "Buddy I really miss you"...and he chuckles and says "you miss me??? You cannot even begin to know how much I have been missing you..I really wish you could understand..." And I said "Bro I know how it is..."...and he goes "Bri, you really dont"...We talked more and more for another our..till about 6:30, the nI had to get ready for work..We both left off saying "I miss you very much"....There was so much hurt behind us both saying that to each other .....well thats all for now, talk to you guys soon...

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Hey,

The "you really don't know..." comment sticks with me. I think he feels something for you and you really should bring up what you wanted to bring up next time - the part about asking him what he's not sure of.

Just be casual, say: "Remember when you asked me if...etc"

I really hope this ends ok.

Just be a little more probing next time, but don't go overboard - ease in

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Originally Posted by LostVegas

After another hour of talking..I said "Buddy I really miss you"...and he chuckles and says "you miss me??? You cannot even begin to know how much I have been missing you..I really wish you could understand..." And I said "Bro I know how it is..."...and he goes "Bri, you really dont"...We talked more and more for another our..till about 6:30, the nI had to get ready for work..We both left off saying "I miss you very much"....There was so much hurt behind us both saying that to each other .....well thats all for now, talk to you guys soon...

I've been an avid reader of this post but havent commented yet...

This bit got me, did you pursue and ask why he said that you wouldn't understand how he missed you? I don't want to read anything into it but he has a really deep bond with you, and from the sounds of it he can talk to you bout stuff that he wouldn't tell his partner.

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Originally Posted by taketheflack

I've been an avid reader of this post but havent commented yet...

This bit got me, did you pursue and ask why he said that you wouldn't understand how he missed you? I don't want to read anything into it but he has a really deep bond with you, and from the sounds of it he can talk to you bout stuff that he wouldn't tell his partner.

I didnt pause to ask or pursue it further..nest time this chance comes up I will take it...this is not the first time at all that he has said "I miss you more than you know"...etc...And yes we do have a deep bond, whether this goes further or not, we have a deep deep bond that will last forever. No question. Brian

P.S.-Thanks for reading this and all the feedback. I know sometimes on here I sound like a broken record. Or that I might not really update with any groundbreaking stuff, but its a way for me to vent and listen to some sound advice in here. And it also serves as a little memory for me..I look back and am in awe of how far I came, just for coming to this board..I remember like it was yesterday when I told my buddy, and Im so glad I did.

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

I'm on the idea of saying you used to have a crush on him -- and then whatever he says, say, "Yeah, and it never went away."

"Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Hey Brian, I've been reading this thread from your first post and it's a really amazing friendship you guys have. I know you're missing each other badly and that he's asked for financial help from you. Along that line, have you considered flying him back to NYC for a weekend? I just wonder what would come of 48 hours together (without his fiancee around) for you two just to be together and say anything you want without interference. I'm not saying 'bring him back and seduce him' but simply get face to face privately for a few days and really talk to each other openly now that he knows you're gay. Worst case, you have a fun weekend with your best friend!

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Okay guys..I am sort of in a situation here.

My buddy called me up last night very depressed. He failed an aptitude test that a prospective job had give n him to advance to an interview with the company. He was and is very depressed over this. He is in a bad way. He told me that he is down to a few hundred dollars. The job that his girl supposedly had locked in while she was here in NYC also fell through.

See my buddy never finished high school and he has never gone back to get his GED. He has made several attempts to hunker down and get ready to take it, but he backed out all said times. He is such a good, sweet kid guys. He feels people judge him on this and he also feels he wont be able to make it in this life comfortably and to enjoy it. Me and him are a lot alike. We hate to work, but we want a lot of money. We want to be our own boss and be able to have lots of time to hang out with each other and enjoy the rest of our lives. He always said he wants to grow old with me as a friend. He said that he thanks go everyday for meeting me in that gym on that day because he'd be lost without me. He said I wished I was there near him in Vegas.

That being said, and despite how I try to comfort him, the sad fact remains that he WILL be probably be judged on his lack of education.

I found out today I owe $350.00 on a ticket I forgot to pay . This couldnt come at a worse time. Im trying to save up. I wanted to buy a cell phone. And of course I have to help my friend.

The cell phone is least important and is material so I dont mind putting that off. I have to pay this ticket off, it is important. I have the money for that. Heck I even have the money for my friend. He never told me how much he needs but based on the things he has been dropping, Im assuming it to be in the 1500-2000 dollar range. He needs money for car insurance, groceries, car payment and rent. I have ALWAYS been the type of person who is good hearted. I put myself before others for so many years even when it was inconvenient for me. I do like helping my fellow man out, be it a stranger, a family member or a best friend. But at the same time, and especially since coming out to him, I feel a greater importance to myself and getting my life in order, financially being one of those things Im trying to work on.

I have helped my buddy out many times. And have given him a substantial amount of financial support. And as his brother and best friend, how could I not help him this time, right? How could I listen to call after call of his problems and his woes and not offer him help?

I have talked to some about this...I have gotten every response, from all sides of everything. I have gotten from my family and some others that he uses me...I have gotten from some online friends that I only help him out because Im in love with him....Some say I need to let him grow up and be a man and stop supporting him and to focus on myself...I have seen all reactions...

Many of his friends and family wonder why hes so close to me and everyone that knows me, is amazed at how much I care for this kid...

I do love him and i must admit that comes into play when I help him, but it is truly and mostly because hes my soul mate and best friend....

My question to you is what would you do? What should I do? I really need advice...BRIAN

P.S. I know some of you are going to say, well you just answered your own question..If hes your best friend...do you really have to question it?...and normally and almost always I dont, but its getting to a point where I need to start saving up and I feel like Im just keeping my head above water.

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Brian, Here's the recipe I use to decide when to help someone I love or not. I NEVER loan money - I either have it to GIVE or not. If I can't afford to give it, then I have to say I can't help. If you want to help him, can afford to give him the money without sacrificing your own security or comfort, and you don't think bailing him out again will hurt him in the long run, then I'd do it. This has worked well for me, and has always allowed me to help those I can or say 'no' without guilt. Bottom line is that you know him better than anyone else, so you decide what you feel is right. Sorry you (and your firend) are in such a tough spot right now!

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

If you keep being the Free BANK for this young man; he will never learn to accept or take financial r even personal responsability .
By contining to bail his ass out of debt ect. .. you are enablng him to continue to be very mature with responsability ...
IF you really care for him ; the best thing that you can do is to be compassionate ; but do not offer or give the $$$$$ .
I say this because I have been there and just have backed out of a similar relationship .... When I stopped being the bank, my young friend hunkered down .. is going back to school for his diploma (Yes, Dip;oma IS better than a GED no mater who says different ) .... and has ask jis boss at the pizza joint for more hours ....
Good Luck ...

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Money, and Friends, don't mix! Money, and Relatives, don't mix! Money doesn't really mix with anything other than Money! Money doesn't care who has it, and who doesn't! Money is extremely inpersonal! Money is probably the one thing I HATE the most! But ... yet ... I wish I had so much of it that I didn't have to worry about it!

Money has a "Strange" Power! It can do Good Things, and Bad Things, to/for people! It can change Relationships before anyone realizes what is happening! Easy access can ENABLE debilitating consequences! And a lack of access can utterly destroy Lives! If used descretely, it can Lift ALL "Boats" at once! If used indescriminately, it can Sink some "Boats" while keeping others afloat! Money is, can be, a Very Slippery Slope!!

Personally ... I NEVER "Lend" Money to anyone! I ALWAYS "Give" it, when I can! I don't care to worry about whether it is ever repaid, or not! I consider that to be the Receiver's concern! If they care to repay it, that is a "Plus" for Them! And, if not, then I may "reconsider" the Next Time! And ... it seems ... there will usually be a "Next Time"!

I can not come up with, nor do I care to, how much I have Given "Away"! But I do have a fairly clear picture of who will not be getting anymore! Not because they never attempted to repay me (since I'm expecting that from the start), but rather because it didn't seem to make any Positive Difference! I've never expected Anything "Back"! But at least I had hoped it would have been a "Boost", rather than just a Convenient "Crutch"! Catch my Drift??

Each situation is Different! And, in the vast majority of cases, the Money isn't really the central issue! I guess it all boils down to the Integrity, Intentions, and Interpersonal Relationships of all those involved!

You need to ask Yourself a few questions: CAN You HONESTLY Afford to help out just now? Will Your "Help" actually be HELPING? Do You have "Second Thoughts" about being taken Advantage of? Might Your Emotions be clouding Your "Better" Judgement? Are You really Willing to accept the Costs? Is this a "Worthwhile" Venture? Will this make YOU feel better? Is it Practical right now?

There are quite a few other questions, but YOU are the only one that can ask/answer them! And there is NOTHING WRONG if some of those answers might lead to a "NO"! A Gentle "No", perhaps, but, still, a "no".

I'm not trying to influence You! Just trying to get You to take a good, perhaps hard, look at the situation! If You can see your way through to "help" some more, then more Power to You! But, if not, right now, then that's O.K., too!

I sincerely believe that "Things" have a tendancy to work themselves out for The Best!

Do, Please, continue to let "Us" know how all is going!

And, of course (seriously) ...

Keep smilin'!!
Ky

WISDOM is the Knowledge you've gained ... After you could have used it!_Me

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

6:09 AM here, just got of the phone with him..

I told him about my little problem with my ticket..then I straight up asked him how much he would need..and he danced around it saying how bad he felt because I was going through this ticket thing...I told him I would call him later today but quite frankly I think I might just take a break from him fro the weekend. He made me a little angry tonight, but I didnt show it to him. I asked him what he did today and he said he took his girl to the mall so she could use gift certificates she got while she was here in NYC...and I said what else did you do? (expecting to him to say he looked for work etc,) and all he said was "nothing, just chilled out" He said he keeps looking online for work.

I love him to death but this pissed me off. I guess the thought of his girl having a great time at the mall on my dime pissed me off even more.

I know money is not good to mix with anything, especially friends..but hes my brother..plus I never lend money out, I either have it or I dont...and I do have it and I guess I will help him out. BRIAN

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

LostVegas,

I have to disagree with those who are saying that you are being used as a bank. I know exactly what you are going through. My niece is exactly the same. When it comes to money, she just goes right through it. She never puts forth the effort to save it or put it towards something beneficial. And when she runs out or needs something, who does she come to? Me. That's because I know how to save and manage my money. So, when all else fails, she knows she's got me.

I don't know how it got to be that way. I am a very generous person. And usually, when someone else needs help, I'm there. The only trouble is, I end up forgetting about myself in the process. I have even given up on buying things for myself, such as the 4-track digital recorder for my music. I tried to save up for that 3 times and every time, it was my niece asking for help or my sister saying they couldn't pay their bills and needed help. And every time, I was there.

I know exactly why I do it. What some of the others don't understand is the size of our hearts. People who give like you and me or people who are always there for each other, have the biggest hearts in the world and so we just give and give.

As of now, I am trying to sing a different tune. My niece came crying to me last month, asking me if I would pay for her boyfriend to come up from Rockford. Of course, she asked me this after spending 6 hours at my house and asked 15 minutes before she was about to leave. That pissed me off, so I told her no. She even went as far as to email me 5 times in a week. She even bugged me on instant messenger.

Finally, I just went out and bought a new computer so I didn't have the money she needed. She cried over the phone when I said no, but she got over it.

So, I know what it's like to feel like you've got to be the support beam. I'm not trying to deflect from your thread, but I'm just telling you I know exactly what it's like. When they're right there in front of you and see the desperation or you can hear it in their voices and all you can do is help, even if it means forgetting about yourself.

But, I don't think he's using you. He just knows he has found major support within you and he knows he can trust you.

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Hi LostVegas, I have to agree with the others who warn you to be very careful here. First of all, this guy is not your family--not your "brother"--he's a guy you're in love with, and not in a "brotherly love" way. You'd sleep with him if he'd let you. There's a big difference between friends and family here.

He has used your credit card--unauthorized--already and is now continuing to request help, even though he and his "finance" do not seem to be making good use of their time nor resources looking for jobs and finding ways to survive. These are warning signals...of what, I'm not sure...but they are signals. Perhaps its a lack of judgement (moving 2500 miles away with no job prospect lined up), or perhaps it's something more serious.

I'm not saying he's using you; I wouldn't know that. I know that you love him, and you are likely very generous and have a big heart to those you love and care about. That's an endearing quality. You also need to love and look out for yourself, first and foremost, though. If you have extra cash and want to be generous and giving, fine. If you've got your own needs (paying tickets, buying phones, saving to relocate to LV), then you need to pay yourself first.

He really does need to stand on his feet here and become a man and figure this out, without looking to you for (more) handouts. If he drops you, then you know you were being used. If he comes to respect you and work with you on honest terms of a loan, then you know he loves you on some level too.

Good luck. Protect yourself. You're on a very slippery slope with him and your money.

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

I just read some of your advice and I must really, honestly admit that it was quite hard to read. I felt like I was reading about a different person when you were talking about my buddy.

I know we are not biological brothers but thats what we refer to ourselves all the time because we are so close.

Let me just state some things that I know:

I know he is not using me.
I know that he will not get mad if I play tough love with him.
I know, no matter what happens, we will always be this close
And as much as I am in love with him and would sleep with him given the chance, I am fully aware of the benefits of a friend like him for life and have been making decisions with him, with my love for him NOT in my mind.

For example, I CAN see myself staying here in NYC and having a great life, whether he is here or not..I would miss him..but then again my life here will make up for the missing him part.

I live rent free. Im getting the building(3 story house) here inherited to me in a few years...I can make a great life here.

I think I will help him out, but with a warning that this will be the last I can do for a while.

I appreciate all of your feedback as hard as it was to read..I know you guys were/are being just honest and I love you for it...thats what I am looking for by posting on here...thank you ..brian

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

If you know he wont get mad if you play tough love with him then I say hold back on the financial support, because I think that you will feel like 'this is the last time' each time. Even if he isn't using you, he needs to tough it out. Maybe you are scared that if you don't give him the money he will love you less, which if what you say is true isnt the case. Be open about it and say you want to help him but endlessly giving him money isnt helping him.

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Hey Brian,

I apologize in advance if I'm unfair to you or your friend with this comment. I've been reading your thread since day one. I've been always impressed by the emotional connection you guys have. That's very unique and special and I really appreciate your participation in this forum.

I've been thinking about the financial support issue for a while. Initially, I decided not to post my concerns afraid of having limited information and of being unfair to you both. The credit card episode raised a red flag along with other things. I decided to post today based on recent comments by some of the guys. It's not my plan to hurt you, just to raise some questions and suggest a strategy that protects you financially and (more important) emotionally.

I can understand the situation of helping a friend, especially if you have the means to. I'm a bit worried of seeing a pattern here even though in the current situation that financial support may seem justifiable. There is love and friendship involved here. At the same time unequal distribution of resources and potential economic dependence add another layer that has to be recognized and deal with.

In some moment your friend will have to become independent financially. The reality is that you love him and love blind us in some degree (for good and bad). It's not good for any relationship to fall into a pattern of dependency (Easier said than done, I know). He may not be using you consciously but you might be playing the role of a brother who is always available to solve his financial problems (Based on your account, you are clearly more available than his own family). Is that potential financial dependency good for your relationship in the long term? Is this the role you want to define yourself in this relationship? Is a more symmetrical relationship a better alternative? How to address that potential dependency in a healthy way? How to make the relationship more symmetrical from a financial perspective?

Clarify the terms of your financial help if you decide to go ahead with the plan and think about ways to protect yourself emotionally and financially. Try to avoid patterns and work for a more symmetrical/equal relationship.

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

I want to second Yves excellent post above ^^^. He echoes my sentiments exactly (apologies and all). Hang in there. You're a smart guy and will figure this out to your satisfaction--of that I have no doubt.

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

I was going to keep my mouth shut ... but the Money thing always seems to get under my skin! As much as I truly do HATE it, Money, that is, it still bugs me! And THAT is what truly Bugs Me!! That I LET it Bug Me!!

A quick (I hope) little story ...

A HIGH SCHOOL Bud of mine was going through a job loss, AND Divorce. I've known this Guy, and his entire extended family, even nearly married one of his cousins!, for (OMG!) 38yr. now! His situation was indeed quite "Dire", and he asked me for some "help". Even spent several months living with "My" Kev, and I. And though I've never been attracted to him in any physical way, he was still my "Bro"! And though I KNEW "Better" ... since I know him SO well! ... I agreed to "Lend" him some Cash. Not a good move! But I KNEW that going into it ...

We set up his computer system, in tandem with mine, and he was truly using it to find employment Nation Wide. He DID find a new position, and moved to another part of the country. (On MY "Dime"!) He also proceeded to buy a few things, like a new flat panel TV! A collection of semi-precious stones! And other "Necessities"!! Not exactly what I would consider, given his situation, "Wise" uses of "My" Money!!

But the Money really wasn't "Mine" anymore! I had freely "Loaned" (Given) it to him! I was just very pissed off that he wasn't using it as "Smartly" as I had hoped! It really BUGGED ME that his use of that resource wasn't in line with what I would have used it for! But what bothered me more was the very fact that it bothered me at all! (And, No, I never mentioned that to him!)

And now ... he hasn't attempted to repay a single penny. His attempts at staying in touch have dwindled to nothing. I haven't heard from, or about, him for months. And my greatest resentment is the fact I've lost all contact with him! I no longer know where, or how, he is doing! And I wasn't the one that chose to break contact!!

I NEVER pressured him to pay it back, at all! I never brought it up in conversation! But, yet, there was still that undercurrent! And now he has "disappeared"!

I'm pretty sure I'll hear from/about him again. But there is no telling how long that may be! And I still feel it's all because of the Money situation (we're talking multiples of thousands)!

Has this been "Worth" it? No ... I don't think so! Do I regret it? Yes! But I'm also "happy" I was able to help out. Even now that it has led to this, I would probably do it again!

So ... the more You may send Your "Bro", the more "She" will undoubtedly spend! But is that really the point? Or is there something far more "Valueable" at "Risk" here?

You, Dear Brian, are the only one that can answer that one!

I am sincerely wishing ALL the Very Best!!

Keep smilin'!!
Ky

WISDOM is the Knowledge you've gained ... After you could have used it!_Me

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Yves...wow ...what an excellent post indeed. It really made me think.

KYAnimal...your post was so hard to read ..hard because I dont see me and my buddys situation as the same as yours..it is to a point..My buddy is not going anywhere(well besides Vegas, heh). Anyway it was hard reading your post nonetheless, because I feel so bad that others see him as this leech. I am very protective over him and he is over me. I know some people might get sick of that fact that I keep writing that me and my buddy are very close, but it is deeply true. There are even some things that me and my buddy find amazing that we are so close. We can never stay mad at each other as much as we try sometimes.

That being said...Im in a daze...I feel pretty sad this morning. I can't really exactly explain why, but I do.

I really do miss him very much. Perhaps that is why I am this way. I am tearing up as I write this. I miss him being by my side, I cant wait till August..BRIAN

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Dear Brian ...

Sorry about my earlier post. It was not my intention to make you feel badly, or infer anything, at all, about Your relationship with Your Bud! I was merely trying to point out how Money can possibly interfer with relationships. Sometimes beyond our control or expectations. And was offering my "story" as an example of what can/might happen.

Richard, and I, consider ourselves "Brothers", yet are not nearly as close as You and Your Friend. There really isn't all that much comparison! And ... no ... we aren't mad at each other. Our most recent exchanges were quite jovial, actually, and the Money has never been a topic of discussion. Nor do I intend to EVER bring it up! But still ... as Yves mentioned ... it seems to have upset the equallibrium that existed between us.

And, yes, we have lost contact before. Sometimes for years! But like all good friendships, things just picked up right where they had left off before. This time is "different" though.

Perhaps it was my "disappointment" in him, which I tried my best to "cover"? But he also knows me Very Well, and may have picked up "something" in my voice, inflection, or replies to other topics. Perhaps I was being more "stilted" than usual. I just don't Know for sure! But Something has happened that just doesn't feel "right"!

You mentioned that it pissed you off that "She" was out shopping! And maybe some of that "disappointment" might unintentionally convey to Your Bud! Please try Your Best NOT to let that happen! It's just not worth possibly "damaging" Your Relationship over!

In the long run, the Money doesn't really matter! And I would advise You to do whatever you can to completely Forget about "It"! Just let it go!

Money can be a very deceptive "Two Edged Sword"! Not only can it bring about unwanted feelings in the Recipient, but also in the Giver! Please ... DO NOT allow it that Power!!

Send more, or not, if you can, and/or wish to. But do Your utmost to not let it come between you! As "they" say, "It's ONLY Money!" And I'm urging You to do Your Best to keep it that way! There are FAR more valuable things in Life! And Your Relationship with Your "Bro" is definitely one of them!!

I am, sincerely, wishing You ALL the Very Best!!

And, of course (seriously) ...

Keep smilin'!!
Ky

WISDOM is the Knowledge you've gained ... After you could have used it!_Me

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Thanks for the kind words KY....Im sorry if I maybe "snapped" a little or got defensive but it has just been a stressful, depresing last few days..stressed out at work, and in my personal life..

I really do thank you for all the advice and the time you have taken to show me through your experience the right thing to do...

As for helping my friend...I probably will help him..and no I dont let money have anymore value than it is...it is just that..money and material. If I were to be upset or place too much importance on money..trust me..I would have done it many times ago with my buddy..who I cant even say here how much I have helped him out with...but then again hasnt he helped me out in so many other ways too? In ways that I cannot simply even begin to put a monetary value on? I dunno..will update soon...talk to you all later..Brian

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Umma-When me and my buddy and his girl originally moved to Vegas in Summer of o4....We didnt have anything lined up...my buddy said as long as we had each other we would make it through..well we certainly made it through, our finances that is, and we came back home...when we came back I had my place here set for me, but they had given up their apt here and so they had to move in with his mother in law, her mother. It was miserable there for him the whole time. He was made to feel like shit, everyone treated him bad. His girl would even take their sides and always fight with him and want to break up with him...long story short our plan was always to move back out there together...But on XMAS eve the mother in law got an eviction notice to be out by 2/1/06...and so they had to leave, he asked me for help and he agreed that staying here is too depressing for him so they both decided to leave...it was very hard for him becasue I chose to stay and finish my schooling and save up a lot more..and be ready this time...it was a hard decision to stay behind, but I dont ever wanna live where Im just making it anymore..I want to live comfortable.

Hope that answered it

When I got home from my masters class a message from his mother was on my machine..He called me last night but I wasnt home..I have not spoken to him his girl or his mother in a few days..and quite frankly could use the break...but I know my buddy...he will call me late tonight..he hates us going at all without talking so Im sure to ehar from him...talk to you all soon...BRIAN

Wow

My buddy called me last night and talked for like a minute..he said his girl is leaving to go over her friends house for two days and that can he call me in fifteen minutes? I said sure.

He called me back and said "Whats up buddy?" and I said "Whats up?" and then he proceeded to break down and bawl and cry and sob like I have never heard him do before.

He said that he misses me too much and that I dont begin to even know how much he misses me. He said that he is too alone out there and he wants to come home. He said he is losing hope and he feels like he cannot get a break and he feels a large weight on his shoulders.

I felt really bad for him. I wanted to hug him so much. I said buddy its ok, cry it out. Im here. He cried so much and for so long I was worried for him.

He said we have to work on me coming out there sooner and that a year is too long and that even August is too long. He said he misses his walks and talks with me and the littlest things. We talked for close to two hours about this and after a while he said he needs to call me back, he had to vomit.

He calls me back and the first thing he said was that he misses me and he knows he sounds like a broken record. I told him I miss him in ways that he doesnt know either.

He said he has been lying and things have not been ok out there and that me being there would make him feel comfortable. He said he is thinking about coming home, even though he hates NYC, just to be near me.

After a while I talked to him and calmed him down. We started talking about other things. Movies. Vegas. NYC., etc..

And then the whole topic completely shifted.

He asked me how therapy is going and I said I dont go anymore. He said and how is the OTHER thing going. And I go what? He says, you know what we talked about. And I said nothing much.

He made a joke about when he had a kid whether or not he should call me aunt or uncle brian..we both had a laugh over it and he said that only he could joke about that with me.

He asked if Ii had been seeing anyone. He also asked about what type of guy that Im into. I said recently I had been with a guy Matt who is a personal trainer at Crunch gym..hes like get out Ballys(the company my buddy used to work for) owns that. I said cool and he goes whats his name maybe I know him. I said his name but it didnt ring a bell. He asked me if this guy Matt had tattoos and I said no. After I went on about Matt my buddy said "yeah I have to get back in shape"

He then said that if he were to go the other way he would have to be the man..I said excuse me?? lol And he said nevermind. He asked me if Im the man when we have sex..I said yes lol. I went ont o say that Im into manly men..and for some reason I guess he got all defensive and said "Well I cant help you out there!" I was like ok....

He said it is cool that we were able to talk about this and he enjoys the fact that I am more comfortable with him now. He also said that him and his girl love me to death and that he doesnt even se me as a friend, he sees me as a brother.

He also said that he knew very quickly that I was gay. He said he thought with some things I said that I was slowly coming out to him and he tried to make it more easy for me. He said he loves me no matter what. He then went on to say that if I am with anyone come August that I could invite him down with me and that he would be more than welcome. He said is proud of me and proud to know me and that he would be glad to tell his straight Italian friends that he had a gay friend. he also said he has lost a lot of respect for his friends back home and that everyday I remind him more and more of what brothers we are. I told him that "we have a rare relationship/friendship"; and he goes I know..

He then played me a clip of American Pie 3 where Stifler, a character in th movie was in a gay bar doing a dance off..He said thats his favorite and funniest scene in the movie.

Anyway we went on and on and I said that I had to go..He said he hates this part of the phone call because when he hangs up with me, he gets depressed. He also said for me to make sure I call him when Ii get in from work..I said I will...I told him..I miss you buddy...and he goes I miss you so much Bri...

It was without a doubt one of the sweetest/nicest/deep conversations we ever had. Talk to you guys later, Brian

P.S. His girl is out of town the next two nights..so maybe I can get some more nice chats in with him before she gets back..he seemed more open talking about things last night, because he was in the apt alone.

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Your Bro ... have you mentioned his first name? ... really does sound like a tremendously amazing guy! And I truly do envy the relationship you two have managed to build!

And now I'm going to degenerate into the 55yr old, happily "married" Gay Guy, with sex on his mind (nearly as much as when I was in my twenties), that I am! My sincerest apologies in advance! ...

So ... considering Your Bro's very strong "Italian Stallion Syndrome", and his obvious ignorance (not in a bad way, just not Knowing) concerning "Gayness", might he have been Hinting that he might, just might, consider "doing" You (being "The Man") if the opportunity ever came up??? And would You mind if He did?? Just a thought ...

Or ... continuing to be an utter "ass", which I'm usually not ... what do you think would happen if You took Matt to L.V., stayed with Your Bro and his Girl, with the agreement to make all kinds of "interesting noises" during the night (whether you were actually doing anything, or not)??? Do you think "She" might be disgusted, but Your Bro maybe become jealous??

Oh ... just Shoot Me now!!

But ... He does seem to be curious! And seems to be wanting to Learn more from/about You! Not a "Bad Thing" at all! So ... yeah! ... obviously a Very Good Friend!!

Keep smilin'!!
Ky

WISDOM is the Knowledge you've gained ... After you could have used it!_Me

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

I'm suspicious also that he might be trying to say he's interested!
But, a caution: it is just possible he might be trying to use the sex angle to get you to join him sooner than planned, maybe without knowing it. My guess is that's not the case, but when people get really stressed, they can get agendas going they aren't even aware of consciously.
Every time I read these posts I find myself wishing I could just write a check for you two to have twice-a month flights back and forth to be together... this one just made it worse. I hope things go well, because you two have such a treasure in each other, but the strain is clearly mounting.
Hang in there!

"Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

I've been reading this post for a long time and this is my first post.
I just wanted to say that it seems like you're the only antidepressant he has right now.
Do you think there is a possibility that you can fly him to NYC for a weekend or you flying to LV for a weekend? I think after those intense phone conversations you guys need to be together to be able to talk it out all night. The first option is better I think, because his girlfriend won't be around to bother you guys.
Who knows what might happen if there are only two of you alone having a heart-to-heart conversation?
From the way you described him crying on the phone because he misses you and being depressed, I sensed a possibility of good outcome here.

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Hey guys, good morning..thanks for all the continued responses and feedback...things just get odder and odder..

It is 5:50am here..just got off the phone with him again. We were on for about 4 hours.

Tonight it was weird. We were both down a little but none of us were doing any real talking. But it didnt really matter. I mean there was dead silence for close to 3-4 minutes and in a phone call, that seems like an eternity.

I broke the mood by joking on him a little. The he joked on me, about being the women in my relationship.

And then the phone call opened up and all we kept talking about was me being gay..It really really seems that he enjoys talking about it. He even said so. He said he finds it interesting and that hes learning about me.

We made TONS of jokes back and forth about straight and gay people..There was a noise on the phone and I asked what it was and he said he was doing the laundry. Im like your talking about me being the woman and here you are doing laundry and doing dishes and cleaning(my buddy has OCD when it comes to cleaning, I call him Mrs Doubtfire..)

He said "hey I know I have some gay tendencies Bri..".....I was in shock and just went on saying something else...and he goes "you heard me right? I said I have some gay tendencies..." He said this very non-chalantly but I was so in shock I just changed the subject..I didnt know what to say..

We went on to talk about Matt and he asked what kind of shape he is in, etc..He talked again about him coming over to Vegas with me if I wanted..I asked if his girl knew about me(I wasnt really sure) he said yes..He said her reaction was to laugh because she didnt know why I was so hesitant to come out to her...and that she used to have a best gay friend..

I told him "listen whenever I bring whoever Im into at the time over..you cant go becoming better friends with him, remember bro, im your brother.." and he started laughing out loud saying that I he couldnt believe I was jealous about something liek that...

I also made the joke that me and his girl will be home alone consoling each other while my boyfriend and him are out having fun without us...He said well us boys will have to leave the ladies home from time to time...He asked again whos them an in my relationship..I said we both are..and he goes that must suck..and I go why..he goes because you prolly both want to nail each other but no one wants to be the girl..I was like lol

We had a great/deep/funny talk and Im finding that our talks about me being gay and all that comes with it are shaping up to be some of our best talks..

I have come to the conclusion that

a) He is VERY gay friendly
b)I think he is straight but very curious
c)I dont think he will ever leave his girl
d)I think an encounter between me and him at some point is not too far fetched
e)I really enjoy having this closeness with my friend....my love for him aside..I have really really found a rare friend and he found a rare friend in me...its so surreal that we have each other...Talk to you guys later ..brian

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

^^^Man, you got that right. Pass some popcorn over here.

Originally Posted by LostVegas

I have come to the conclusion that

a) He is VERY gay friendly
b)I think he is straight but very curious
c)I dont think he will ever leave his girl
d)I think an encounter between me and him at some point is not too far fetched
e)I really enjoy having this closeness with my friend....my love for him aside..I have really really found a rare friend and he found a rare friend in me...its so surreal that we have each other...Talk to you guys later ..brian

a. To say the least
b. I wouldn't go so far as to say straight at this point. Curious? Probably. More than curious? Probably.
c. Never say never.
d. Agreed.
e. So true, and you're so lucky.

Well, the plot does thicken. I'm not terribly surprised, except that he finally admitted it. How are you feeling now? Hopeful, because he might have the capacity to love you and have sex with you too? Or, feeling like you're competing even more for him now vis-a-vis his girlfriend.

I also wonder what she suspects? Unless she's totally dense, she has to wonder about his emotional closeness to you, doesn't she?

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Originally Posted by greenguy

Gay tendancies? Another plot twist! *grabs some popcorn*

Well let me clarify some things...

Going back now on what he said..we were on the subject of me making fun of him cleaning and doing the laundry..and then he said he knows he has gay tendencies..I THINK what he meant to say that there are things about him that SEEM gay or one might THINK is gay...not that he had tendencies to have sex with a guy...

I just got off the phone with him and I said why dont you come home and stay here. And he said..Bro If Ii could I would do anything to come and be with you...but right in the middle of saying with, he said near you...

He also told me to come there and he said he would cook for me every night and that he would be the bitch in the relationship...and he started laughing...anyway hes going call later tonight so I hope to update..thanks for reading..Brian

PS. Talking to him online AOL right now, keep IMng each other how we miss each other..Im tempted to tell him..talk lata BRI

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Brian,

You have to tell him how you really feel about him. Tell him, see where you stand and get on with your relationship with him, whichever way it goes. If he's confused about his sexuality, maybe this will help him find out who he really is. He can then make a decision on his life. I just spent this entire evening reading only your posts from the very start. If your relationship is as strong as it sounds, and I believe it is, your relationship will be even closer, one way or the other. Go for it! Good luck man.

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

This would make a good motion picture!

I'm totally on edge -- this is definitely more exciting than anything in my life! I SO want to hear that he and you end up in bed and he says he wants you and his girl both, and she decides she's good with that!

Meanwhile... keep opening up to him. I still think you should let him know about having a crush on him... and tell him it never really went away.

"Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Ok..I dont know exactly what to say. Im pretty down right now.

I been on the phone with my buddy on and off all night. I asked him his plans and he told me he was going to the gym with his friend Anthony(someone from Brooklyn that moved out there years ago, real shady guy). Anyway, being the jealous ass I am, I immediately get down about this and tell him Im down because it should be me hanging with him and not Anthony. And he goes "I know buddy..hes no you..Im just hanging out with him, he means nothing to me.."

So that set me in a funk the rest of the night. I know it sounds babyish and very immature, but hey, my heart feels what it feels.

He seems to really like the fact i think that I get a jealous over this. I think it lets him know how much I care for him.

Anyway he calls me back after we get off the phone and he tells me hes very down. He told me his father in law(or soon to be) called him and got on his case for not following through with a job..and whats going on with his daughter..she has no job either..blah blah blah...I hate this guy, hes real shady too..but anyway...so we are both down and depressed and feed off each other..

We started to joke about little things. We both joked about panic attacks(something we both used to go through together) and we made some other jokes.

Ever since I told him abut Matt and what type of shape he is in my buddy, to my knowledge has been a little jealous. My buddy asked me questions about Matt again..mae his usual jokes bout me being gay, etc...Then he said hes going to the gym with anthony tonight...I get a little more down...He goes when I see Matt I want him to see what good of shape that hes in..he said this half jokingly but I think he really is in competition mode with him, which is odd because they never met each other(my buddy is a VERY competitive person overall)..Then eh made a joke that he wants Matt to see him and go "daaaamn hes fine looking"..and I go buddy relax, you think just because a guy is gay that he would automatically be into you..and he got very defensive and said "nah bro its ok, i aint having any of that..Im very homophobic about that....about guys being into me like that.."

This kind of made me more down ..I mean I know OBVIOUSLY with what I have been through with him, hes anything but homophobic..so why did he say this??? This has got me confused...I started to get really down, he said hes going to try and call me when he gets back from the gym..Hes really down too..

He asked me if I am ok..I said no...he goes why? Is it because I'm hanging out with Anthony? And I go yes but its more than that..He goes what..and I say I cant tell you..and he goes why..I go I just cant..I said maybe I call the therapist up tomorrow and open up to him(I played this low card, because my buddy hates me talking to anyone but him, he likes the fact that he knows more about me than anyone)..He said defensively, that I have told him everything so far..so why not tell me whats bothering me..

Im not sure if he picked up on that what he said bothered me..I think he did..the comment hurt a lot..Im kind of confused as to what to think..I just dont know..

I will try and update you before I leave for work if he calls me later...Brian

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

You should tell your friend that you was in love with him but you realized that that never will happen and you kinda moved on... see what he responds.... and if nothing happens you should go full monty with MATT....

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

You know that your friend isn't homophobic because of how he acts, so it should be clear that his words were simply badly chosen and not a reflection of his attitude.

If you don't tell him that his words hurt you, how is he going to know? Acting hurt so he knows something's up without explaining it simply fosters misunderstandings between you. The same goes for playing games, like trying to make him jealous and so on. Ultimately it's manipulative.

The best course, in my opinion, is to be straightforward in expressing what you feel honestly.

Communication is important not only for lovers, but in any relationship.