@missmar1 wrote:The Mccanns have travelled far and wide to give tv interviews during the last 7 years - they have sat on sofas and discussed their missing daughter over and over again and they have vowed never to give up the search for Madeleine. They have continually claimed there is no evidence that any harm has come to her, even now, with digging to commence, Gerry Mccann has stated they are still hoping for a happy outcome .

So why, would they not return to Portugal at the very time when some real and serious activity is taking place ? Possibly it could be said they would be too upset to be there while the diggere looking for their childs body - yet they have always managed to maintain their stiff upper-lip attitude and attended many many activities over the years that has involved them talking about, and, participating in, events being held for their missing child - so why not go back this time ?

Imo they may be throwing down another gauntlet ? Remember Gerry Mccann snapping " find the body" to I think it was a reporter ? It may be that the close pal who said they would not return unless Madeleine's DNA is found, is knowingly/unknowingly passing on the gauntlet to the investigatotrs because possibly the Mccann's know their child's DNA is not going to be found during the digs ? In other words, is it another case of Gerry Mccann repeating " Find the body" ? because imo, the Mccann;s are saying no matter what the digs find, unless Madeleine's DNA is found, we will not accept she is dead. all my opinion only.

Good question. Given that they were so heavily involved with organised prayer/vigil servies in PDL church it would not be unexpected that they would wish to return and offer prayers or light candles for their child while these investigations were ongoing. Having endured the grief of not knowing whether their child is dead or alive for the past 7 years now, would it really add to the agony to be there at the location if anything were found relating to her disappearance? If remains were uncovered, would it not be a final betrayal of this child to be absent once again. Not to "be there" for her when she disappeared is one thing but to decide not to be there if/when found is difficult to comprehend. Yes, of course it would be distressing, painful for any parent to endure but what about the child, life taken then hidden away for years until found by complete strangers and left in their hands. This scenario is beyond sad and how they could opt not to be there, not one or the other, unfathomable.

Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

@ultimaThule wrote:It seems to me that, stripped of all of the ornate plaster curlicues which have been attached to it over the years, what we are looking at is the age old story of a crime for gain, bobbin

So is this a case of why dunnit and not who dunnit ?

Imo there's no mystery as to why they dunnit, aiyoyo, and, given that there would be no need to conceal the body if she'd met with a fatal accident, all that remains to be established is who caused the child's death

However, as there's no bar to convicting more than one party of causing the death of the same individual, there's no reason why justice can't be done in this case as it has been others where there has been an absence of a body and no certainty as to the identity of the killer. .

@PeterMac wrote: ... or to get the quote right - which is even more powerful in its raw form

Reply ”There was nothing of that size that you could hide a, a tennis racquet in or anything like that, it would have been just purely, if they had anything…” [sputters to a halt as he realises the full horror of what he has just said]

Without doubt one of the all-time classic quotes of the mystery. For those who finish building the lego set, perhaps a game afterwards would be in order? I remember this one rather cruelly being suggested on another forum way back.

@ultimaThule wrote:Imo even if this crew were rehearsed to the nth degree, they'll all fluff their lines in the spotlight of cross examination.

The Libel trial lot even had their lines written out either by them or for them, and STILL fluffed them.

I can understand their not getting it right on the first night, but by the time of the rogatories you would have thought the Rothley secret meeting would have sorted it out.But apparently not.Could it be that some of them have consciences which do not permit them to go beyond a certain point ?Or that weighing up what they were being asked to say, they realised that "Conspiracy to Pervert" was a real possibility, and so started to gibber and dribble at that point.

On 'one reading of the evidence' it would seem that theTapas 7 are predominantly a self-entitled bunch of narcissists who felt no compunction about telling untruths to the PJ because they considered themselves to be above Portuguese law, and that apparent collective self-view has no doubt been compounded by the passing of years with no discernible knock on the door which has required them to individually account for the discrepancies in various of the statements each of them have made.

It's probable they have appraised themselves of the penalty if found guilty of conspiring to pervert Portuguese justice but, such would seem to be their disregard for the laws of Portugal, I suspect that only a charge of conspiracy which requires them to appear in an English court of law is likely to concentrate their minds on the desirability of self-preservation.

They may be lacking in conscience but they all possess necks and if it comes to sacrificing theirs to save the McCanns, I very much doubt that there'll be a Sydney Carton character among them.

@missmar1 wrote:The Mccanns have travelled far and wide to give tv interviews during the last 7 years - they have sat on sofas and discussed their missing daughter over and over again and they have vowed never to give up the search for Madeleine. They have continually claimed there is no evidence that any harm has come to her, even now, with digging to commence, Gerry Mccann has stated they are still hoping for a happy outcome .

So why, would they not return to Portugal at the very time when some real and serious activity is taking place ? Possibly it could be said they would be too upset to be there while the diggers are looking for their childs body - yet they have always managed to maintain their stiff upper-lip attitude and attended many many activities over the years that has involved them talking about, and, participating in, events being held for their missing child - so why not go back this time ?

Imo they may be throwing down another gauntlet ? Remember Gerry Mccann snapping " find the body" to I think it was a reporter ? It may be that the close pal who said they would not return unless Madeleine's DNA is found, is knowingly/unknowingly passing on the gauntlet to the investigatotrs because possibly the Mccann's know their child's DNA is not going to be found during the digs ? In other words, is it another case of Gerry Mccann repeating " Find the body" ? because imo, the Mccann;s are saying no matter what the digs find, unless Madeleine's DNA is found, we will not accept she is dead. all my opinion only.

Maybe they know it's all for show

iow whitewash

I'll get my coat ......................

____________________"And if Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment, why would that be our fault?" Gerry

Reply ”There was nothing of that size that you could hide a, a tennis racquet in or anything like that, it would have been just purely, if they had anything…” [sputters to a halt as he realises the full horror of what he has just said]

It could be argued that the intelligent David P came out with those words because he knew where the police were going with their line of questioning ?

I am merely playing devil's advocate btw. I keep in mind the recent words from SY to the press :

Abduction might not follow with all our thinking on the case.

There is a possibility that Madeleine did not leave the apartment alive.

Taken together, the inference drawn is possible death in 5a or at least lying deceased for some time in 5a , then removal by a person or persons known to the child, not any type of stranger intruder, be the motivation burglary with accidental silencing of the awake child or entry with intent to abduct.

I would be pushed to believe in a whitewash after hearing those words from SY.

____________________

The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate, contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and unrealistic.~John F. Kennedy

@missmar1 wrote:The Mccanns have travelled far and wide to give tv interviews during the last 7 years - they have sat on sofas and discussed their missing daughter over and over again and they have vowed never to give up the search for Madeleine. They have continually claimed there is no evidence that any harm has come to her, even now, with digging to commence, Gerry Mccann has stated they are still hoping for a happy outcome .

So why, would they not return to Portugal at the very time when some real and serious activity is taking place ? Possibly it could be said they would be too upset to be there while the diggers are looking for their childs body - yet they have always managed to maintain their stiff upper-lip attitude and attended many many activities over the years that has involved them talking about, and, participating in, events being held for their missing child - so why not go back this time ?

Imo they may be throwing down another gauntlet ? Remember Gerry Mccann snapping " find the body" to I think it was a reporter ? It may be that the close pal who said they would not return unless Madeleine's DNA is found, is knowingly/unknowingly passing on the gauntlet to the investigatotrs because possibly the Mccann's know their child's DNA is not going to be found during the digs ? In other words, is it another case of Gerry Mccann repeating " Find the body" ? because imo, the Mccann;s are saying no matter what the digs find, unless Madeleine's DNA is found, we will not accept she is dead. all my opinion only.

Maybe they know it's all for show

iow whitewash

I'll get my coat ......................

Or it may be that if the digs turn up anything less than her DNA - by giving out that statement, the Mccann's have already put the idea into the minds of the public that unless Madeleine's actual DNA is found then there is always the future hope she is still alive and findable ? Gerry Mccann's comments, even at this stage of the digging, saying they are still hoping for a" happy outcome" - could mean they are hoping to keep the public on side and will continue to donate to the fund as long as their little girl's DNA is not found ? ..... imo, they know her DNA will never be found.

@missmar1 wrote:The Mccanns have travelled far and wide to give tv interviews during the last 7 years - they have sat on sofas and discussed their missing daughter over and over again and they have vowed never to give up the search for Madeleine. They have continually claimed there is no evidence that any harm has come to her, even now, with digging to commence, Gerry Mccann has stated they are still hoping for a happy outcome .

So why, would they not return to Portugal at the very time when some real and serious activity is taking place ? Possibly it could be said they would be too upset to be there while the diggers are looking for their childs body - yet they have always managed to maintain their stiff upper-lip attitude and attended many many activities over the years that has involved them talking about, and, participating in, events being held for their missing child - so why not go back this time ?

Imo they may be throwing down another gauntlet ? Remember Gerry Mccann snapping " find the body" to I think it was a reporter ? It may be that the close pal who said they would not return unless Madeleine's DNA is found, is knowingly/unknowingly passing on the gauntlet to the investigatotrs because possibly the Mccann's know their child's DNA is not going to be found during the digs ? In other words, is it another case of Gerry Mccann repeating " Find the body" ? because imo, the Mccann;s are saying no matter what the digs find, unless Madeleine's DNA is found, we will not accept she is dead. all my opinion only.

Maybe they know it's all for show

iow whitewash

I'll get my coat ......................

Or it may be that if the digs turn up anything less than her DNA - by giving out that statement, the Mccann's have already put the idea into the minds of the public that unless Madeleine's actual DNA is found then there is always the future hope she is still alive and findable ? Gerry Mccann's comments, even at this stage of the digging, saying they are still hoping for a" happy outcome" - could mean they are hoping to keep the public on side and will continue to donate to the fund as long as their little girl's DNA is not found ? ..... imo, they know her DNA will never be found.

One does not exclude the other......Both are profitable for the McCanns

____________________"And if Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment, why would that be our fault?" Gerry

Châtelaine wrote:DNA ...As if, if the remains of the young girl, a pink blanket or white pyjamas would be unearthed, they could be anyone's ...

Well of course they couldKate's own Charity - Missing People - has the details of 140,000 children missing each year. A town the size of Blackpool, or Slough, of the entire Isle of Wight !Just whooshed off the face of the earth - according to them PLEASE GIVE GENEROUSLYSo after 7 years there must be nearly a million missing children and that's just from the UK !At least a hundred or so must be in PdL

Have been re-reading an old book on the Moors Murders and this leapt out at me. Quite apt:

'....As the grim search had been going on, two mothers, united in their anxiety, stood in the drizzle and watched. Sheila Kilbride and Ann Downey, hoping, praying. Hopes that their children, their son, their daughter, might somehow, somewhere, by some miracle, still be alive; that this was all some long, ghastly nightmare. And prayers that if they were dead they could, at last, be peacefully laid to rest.' ~ from 'Devils Disciples' by Robert Wilson

Contrast with the McCanns who have steadfastly refused to be in Portugal while the digs go ahead.

Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:I wonder how history will judge everything about this case.

That will be interesting, because whatever happens the McCanns wil be left with a list of unexplained things.Issues which refuse to be whooshed.

Their admitted gross neglect of the children for five nights in a rowExacerbated by their continuing to abandon the children even after a specific complaint by one of themFurther exacerbated by "increasing" the regularity of the checks - to one per hourThe fact of their being no evidence of entry to the apartmentThe fact of there being no evidence of presence in the apartmentThe fact of their being no evidence of exit form the apartment - and even their on original "version" on the window and shutters they themselves dismissed as a red herringThe sedation of the remaining childrenThe succession of changes in their official storiesTheir clear and proven lies about many important issuesThe dogsTheir refusal to assist the policeTheir dismissal of any PI who raised a metaphorical eyebrow at their official versionThe setting up of the Fund with indecent hasteTheir retaining of the best Libel lawyers in the worldTheir retaining of the most famous Extradition lawyers in the countryThe retaining of a spokesperson whose understanding of Truth is rudimentaryand so on through Last Photos, extended holidays, visits to world locations . . .

the list is a long one.

And none of these will go away, whatever the result of Grange or the PJ's re-opening of the case.

And as someone has just pithily said in another placeGerry is perfectly happy to return to Portugal if involves the chance of making large amounts of moneyBut not if it involves discovering what happened to Madeleine.

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:I wonder how history will judge everything about this case.

Yes I do as well.

Someone on a different thread mentioned Kerry Needham going back when police decided to undertake a search last year for Ben. She was interviewed shaking like a leaf, worried about what might be found, be she insisted that she would not have stayed away no matter what might have been found.

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:I wonder how history will judge everything about this case.

Yes I do as well.

Someone on a different thread mentioned Kerry Needham going back when police decided to undertake a search last year for Ben. She was interviewed shaking like a leaf, worried about what might be found, be she insisted that she would not have stayed away no matter what might have been found.

And the bereft parents in the Dutroux case here in Belgium: likewise

BTW: they didn't ask for a single sou from the generous Belgium people, who would have jumped in no end to be of assistance

Eddie and Keela alerted to items and places concerned with the McCanns - and importantly to no other items or places.

According to Eddie and Keela, the body of Madeleine McCann lay lifeless behind the sofa in Apartment 5a, clinging to the only thing from which she could derive any comfort; a soft toy called 'Cuddle cat'.

Kate's book 'madeleine', Page 219: "Did they really believe that a dog could smell the 'odour of death' three months later from a body that had been so swiftly removed?"

After forensic analysis of the 'Last Photo' there is little doubt now that the pool photo CANNOT POSSIBLY have been taken on the Thursday 3rd May, but most likely on the Sunday 29th April. So, where was Madeleine at lunchtime on Thursday?

John McCann:"This was terrible for them, Kate dressed Amelie in her sister's pyjamas and the baby said: "Maddy's jammies, where is Maddy?"Martin Roberts:"If Madeleine's pyjamas had not, in fact, been abducted then neither had Madeleine McCann."Dr Martin Roberts: A Nightwear Job

Death Toll in McCann Case

Gerry McCann called for an example to be made of 'trolls'. SKY reporter Martin Brunt doorstepped Brenda Leyland on 2 October 2014 after a 'Dossier' was handed in to Police by McCann supporters. She was then found dead in a Leicester hotel room the next day. Brenda paid the price.

Colin Shalke died suddenly in mysterious circumstances with a significant amount of morphine in his system. At the Inquest the coroner said there was no evidence as to how he had come to take morphine, and no needle mark was found.

Ex-Met DCI Andy Redwood had a "revelation moment" on BBC1's Crimewatch on 14th October 2013 when he announced that Operation Grange had eliminated the Tanner sighting - which opened up the 'window' of opportunity' from 3 mins to 45 mins, in accordance with their remit, to allow the staged abduction to happen.

Dr Gonçalo Amaral, retired PJ Coordinator: "The English can always present the conclusions to which they themselves arrived in 2007. Because they know, they have the evidence of what happened, they don't need to investigate anything. When MI5 opens their files, then we will know the truth."

Tracey Kandohla: "A McCann pal told The Sun Online: "Some of the savings have been siphoned off from the Find Maddie Fund into a fixed asset account, which financial experts have advised them to do. It can be used for purchases like buying a house or building equipment."

The McCanns, Operation Grange and the BBC are all working towards one goal - to make us keep looking at what happened (or didn't happen) on 3rd May, instead of looking at what happened days earlier. There is NO evidence of an abduction. Smithman is ALL they have got. Without that, they are sunk. No wonder Operation Grange clings on to Smithman...