You must have edited the post after I replied, because I hit the quote button that should quote the entire post.

If that message was there I would have not replied.

I really wish I would not have replied, so this thread could get back on topic.

To be perfectly clear, I posted both paragraphs with a single click of the mouse, and my post was never edited (as confirmed by the obvious lack of an "edit" time stamp on my post - no. 6056). Blame it on an implausible forum glitch if you like, but your accusation of after the fact edits on my part is both inappropriate and demonstrably false. In any event, I've said my piece now, and I'm happy to accept ac500's sound advice to move back on topic. Bygones and all that.

As it happens, I'm listening to the MFSL Ella & Louis box set on my HD650's right now - what a pleasure! The 650's certainly do justice to most genres, but to my ears, there is something really special about how they playback well recorded jazz. The incredibly natural timbre of live instruments and voices is just awesome.

Is there any situation where an amp does not "properly drive" the HD650 particularly in terms of lacking detail and having a veil, yet manages to make the HD800 sound absolutely stunningly detailed (not as good as better amps obviously but stil breathtakingly better than the HD650)?

You find the HD800 to be breathtakingly better in detail than the HD650? Hmm, IMO, I disagree on that. The recessed treble and laid back nature makes it seem less detailed. Put the HD650 on a good setup, it'll ooze detail.

You find the HD800 to be breathtakingly better in detail than the HD650? Hmm, IMO, I disagree on that. The recessed treble and laid back nature makes it seem less detailed. Put the HD650 on a good setup, it'll ooze detail.

I don't think it's miles and miles away. Like the HD650, people find the brightness on the HD800 to mean detail. No, I don't think this is true in the slightest. Sure, the HD800 is a detail monster, but the HD650 is still in the league of detail, and that's only saying if you have a detailed amp, DAC, cable, and high quality music.

HD800 has high resolution, not based on "brighness" but based on its ability to present detail and information at all registers...
In any case, this is a HD650 appreciation thread, and I am a fan of HD650. It was a big mistake to sell it...just can't move myself to buy it again at the current going price...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Austin Morrow

I don't think it's miles and miles away. Like the HD650, people find the brightness on the HD800 to mean detail. No, I don't think this is true in the slightest. Sure, the HD800 is a detail monster, but the HD650 is still in the league of detail, and that's only saying if you have a detailed amp, DAC, cable, and high quality music.

Boosted bass and mids is equivalent to saying reduced treble. I have no clue why you'd want that with a Sennheiser HD6x0, even assuming a wire is capable of such a thing in the first place.

I still stand by my reasonable assessment that many things in audiophilia represent placebo that enables listeners to enjoy music more, due to placebo, or less bluntly, a psychological enhancement of human appreciation :D.

In 35 years of listening to high end audio I have never heard any cable do anything but very subtle things. Only MIT Networks did big things for speakers. But in headphone cables only very subtle difference never any boost and measurements are always the same. How can a cable change a driver? Now MIT networks have electronic parts in the boxes but thats another story for another board.

HD800 has high resolution, not based on "brighness" but based on its ability to present detail and information at all registers...
In any case, this is a HD650 appreciation thread, and I am a fan of HD650. It was a big mistake to sell it...just can't move myself to buy it again at the current going price...

Ah, yes, I just see a lot of people who say that the HD800 is a detail moister because the treble is hot or everything is so hot, which is not the case. The HD800 needs to be appreciated for it's good detail retrieval, not it's brightness. Also, I think the HD650 underamped sounds terrible. But I'm being dead honest when say this, yet again, if you make the HD650 shine with a 2K setup, it'll sound phenomenal.

Ah, yes, I just see a lot of people who say that the HD800 is a detail moister because the treble is hot or everything is so hot, which is not the case. The HD800 needs to be appreciated for it's good detail retrieval, not it's brightness. Also, I think the HD650 underamped sounds terrible. But I'm being dead honest when say this, yet again, if you make the HD650 shine with a 2K setup, it'll sound phenomenal.

You don't need to put $2k into your rig to make them sing, unless you just like collecting the gear, but you do need a healthy amount of clean power. A lot of receivers and IAs, usually older ones, have great HP stages that will drive any headphones in the world, and do it very well.

I liked the way my EF-5 sounded with HD650s, made them very full and dynamic with impressive detail.. It's only $400. Also, the WA6 is great for the money, IMO, though not quite as powerful as the EF-5.

I just spent a good coupla hours tryna eq my speakers to have a tonal balance like the 650...I give up. I already ditched my subwoofers because they didn't have the speed to match the bookhelves and integrate seamlessly into the mids, leading to a smothered low mid.

These cans will bridge the bass to low mids seamlessly. So without the subs and only leaving the monitors, when I get the low mids to correct amplitude it sounds like crap...very resonant, not like real instruments at all...which is after all what the HD650 sound very alike to me. I should just toss my speakers out the window and buy new ones. Oddly enough they don't resonate at all in the low mids when the top end is masking the hollowness.

I'm thinking a 6.5 inch driver asked to punch bass and mids cannot move sufficient air in the low mids without lots of distortion?

After experiencing several mid-high tier headphones from various brands, I have to say I'm a Sennheiser fan. IMO Sennheiser manages natural tonality, detail, and lower end liquidity that makes for an unrivaled combination I've not yet heard in a Beyer or Audio Technica or Audeze (to my ears; I have not yet been convinced the LCD2 in any way comes close to the HD800's detail, although the thick and weighty bass is nice although I'm conflicted because I often prefer the HD800 bass accuracy and transparency) etc. although I've not heard the T1. Probably never will though because Beyers don't fit my head properly.

On the topic of the HD800, it's polarizing IMO because its upper treble >10khz is not recessed, and slightly forward of neutral. You have to pair it with a slightly dark amp for it to be dead neutral, but even then people don't like it; some people here call the HD650 or LCD2 neutral, and that's just wrong at least to most people's ears I think (I still don't know what it is that generates different tonality perceptions for different people). For me, the HD800 is pretty much perfection. I'll probably keep my HD650 though because I treat my HD800 like glass due to the price, and because the HD650 makes anything sound good because its recessed treble covers up imperfections in treble.

In general though the HD800 beats the HD650 hands down across every description or comparison I have yet thought of (yes, bass too -- especially sub-bass). Soundstage, separation, and detail probably come out as the most striking improvements, literally miles better IMO -- my jaw dropped when I first heard the HD800 coming from HD650s.

In all fairness, the HD650 only wins in pseudo-metrics like ability to conceal flaws, which is another way of lacking detail or lacking treble presence - not to say this is bad but it's a compromise you must determine you want or not. And in all fairness, some people love dark sound signatures like the HD650 (I like it for some things), and that's fine.

With equalization, I have yet to find any need/genre/mood the HD800 cannot fulfill brilliantly, and much more so than the HD650, except for one thing: concealing fine details, whereas the HD800 always manages to reveal everything even with treble severely reduced. Once again, it's a compromise. Do you really want to hear everything -- perfection and imperfection -- or not? I'm the kind of audiophile who pursues high audio fidelity, so my answer to that question is yes.

Disagreed. It makes everything sound good because MUSIC is meant to sound good. And with equalisation you can easily find out how the HD800s treble masks massive distortion in the subbass - which the LCD2s exhibit virtually none. An EQ will prove it.