Responses:

I agree with you fully on the war thingy
But If dividing Kashmir is the solution, dont you think you are opening a Pandora's Box for separatist movements in the NorthEast
Its not going to take China too long to start supporting them

From: robin (@ 134.113.4.168)
on: Fri May 24 12:15:59 EDT 2002
The problem with India is its people and politicians. India has always for peace and if you look at history all 3 wars with pakistan was started by them and not on us.
Even during the recent kargil they dressed up as militants and tried the same thing.
It is pakistan who claims and threaten to use nuke on us and not us on them.
And guy has to do a reality check how long are you going to allow ur neighbour to continue to bleed us.
If giving independence is the solution then every state should be given away and there should be no India ,this exactly what pakistan wants.
Thanks to our foolish policy on kashmir where they were isolated based on religion and forvere the cultural integration with rest of india never happened,if they say it belongs to india why cant you or i can go and settle there ,why cant we buy property there. Years of messed up policy has lead to this.
The only way is take away that specialzed status and allow people to settle there and allow them to mix with other people. Will our politicans have guts to do it,do they really mean when they say 'secular' you all know.
Even after 50yrs of a single largest party ruling our country, nothing had been done by them to make india stronger and confident.
Instead we Indians are selfbeating,inferiority creatures.
When India did their every intellectual in english media said India is doomed by Mr.Vajpayee
and this and that today all the sancations most of them have gone. All along India has maintained its only a deterant and never will be used.
These never understand the reality you have biggest superpower as our neighbour the china with some many nucelar tainted warheads pointing directly at India and so many borders issues with them. What happened when a naive india said indi chini bai bai the very next day we were beaten and suffered a heavy loss.
So wake up to reality guys.
These pseduo intellectual wont be there when disaster comes only our poor jawans will be there.
During kargil militants had more highfi gadgets than our military it is becoz of sheer valour and bravery our boys won that war.
Arundhahti and other india bashing people werent there

From: robin (@ 134.113.4.168)
on: Fri May 24 12:21:23 EDT 2002
correction please 'When India did their'
I meant 'when India did their recent nuke testing'
I am not supporter of any individual or party.
All I want is India to shine and better be a individualist nation instead of copying of someone modal.
When Baba and others invested money on space research technology that time we also had these self doubters laughing at them india is a poor nation why waste money on such things they are only meant for richer countries, and look at India today on space tech. we are one of leading nations to produce commerical satellites

From: suresh (@ 202.88.155.34)
on: Fri May 24 12:32:51 EDT 2002
Sarat, I agree this will be fraught with far-reaching consequences. But I still feel the NorthEast populace is not even a fraction as alienated from India as the Kashmiris are. And, unlike J&K where our govt. has not had a common ground with the 'separatist' groups, haven't successive governments from the PM downwards been meeting the groups like the NSCM at 'international' venues of their choice (Bangkok, Geneva) for decades now?

Given that the Naga problem is miniscule compared to J&K in terms of the costs to the exchequer, wouldn't it be fair to expect that little bit of pragmatism with Kashmir as well? I doubt though if any of these vain hopes will be met; J & K is the perfect horse that our self-serving leaders can flog for perpetuity to stay away from performing any real governance and divert the nation's interest from issues that affect everyday life:(

From: Robin (@ 134.113.4.168)
on: Fri May 24 13:09:40 EDT 2002
hi suresh
I didn't mean everyone
We all need to read/get to know nation builders like Baba,Tata,Abdul kalam ,Narayan Moorthy,Vivekananda,Arubindo and even unsung heroes/heroines like Chinnapillai who started Kalanjiam, the micro credit movement for her unkown village Alagar Kovil there by bringing enormous developments to her village
Even PM of this country had to touch her feet for blessings.

As for the peaceniks here, whilst you sit and drink Coca-Cola, our Jawans are taking care of you in the mountains and harsh conditions, so that you can sit in Chennai and type in into your computer. Enjoy!

Eswar, if I'm drinking Coke and typing into the computer, what are you doing? Sitting atop Siachen Glacier and knocking bunkers down on the Pak side? Get real pal, just getting emotional and edgy doesn't make you more of a patriot! If you can't discuss issues on a rational level, save yourself the trouble of ferreting snippets from the web..

From: Robin (@ 134.113.4.168)
on: Fri May 24 16:39:21 EDT 2002
Eswar buddy,
Suresh has a valid point there.
I know we all get emotional on these issues.
But I am sure you can put in your side of your story rationally.
At time of crisis instead of having a unifying voice all we hear are discordant notes.
So typical of our politicians,press when will india unite against this menace God knows.
Its so easy to give advice,and all that.
We have so many of them now.
Nobody wants war but if it is brought into your house what will do you ?
will you keep idle let it go away.
Remember tolerance,patience cannot be one sided
you need to reciprocate too.
If you keep silent then it is not tolerance or valuour but sheer cowardice.

I think current generation of Indians don't deserve freedom,because we take it for grant,its great privilege and right brought to us by our freedomfighters they gave everything for this country so that we their heirs can live happily.
I suggest you guys to talk with some ordinary chinese or afghan or bosnian or sudanese people then you will know about repression you will be glad you were born in India however dirty or corrupt it might be.

Aslong as we have people like Abdul Kalam or Narayan Murthi or Chinnamal there is always hope and bright future for us,they all have showed how each one us can play role in nation building.
Every tiny drops add to the ocean

peace to you all
Robin

From: aruLaracan (@ 128.111.113.76)
on: Fri May 24 16:49:49 EDT 2002
why dont y'all take this non-sense to forumhub where all kinds of trash proliferate. please let only music related trash to pile up here.

bb, rAjAram, et. al: please dont tell me that you too are contaminated by this patriotism crap that you let this thread go unchecked.

From: Bhutto (@ 202.41.117.3)
on: Fri May 24 20:45:12 EDT 2002
Guys, I read someone mentioning Arundhati Roy - AR is one of the biggest 'hypes' to have come out from the Indian diaspora in the last one decade!
it all began when AR's husband constructed a house in the premises of Simlipal Bird Sanctuary, Orissa - when the govt. issued a notice asking the AR family to vacate the place, our lady immediately jumps onto the communist/leftist bandwagon and the resulting political contacts/influence saved her house (and the money invested in building it) ! having clung to the leftist ideology, this lady decided to stick to it, since anyway, she was getting paid handsomely for all that anti-BJP, anti-Indian stories she conjures up remarkably well!
the same AR didn't blink an eye/flinch when she went all the way to capitalist London (or was it New York) to receive the Booker prize!
the biggest danger to India lies with the bunch of pseudointellectual, self-styled secular parties, who would not mind a few groups remaining communal, but
who definitely have a problem when the poor majority wants to assert itself - Gujarat: why noone understands that the society in Gujarat is a highly divided one along communal lines over 4 decades of gross misrule by the Congress? that Gujarat has always been a communal cauldron/tinderbox, waiting for a Godhra to happen? that in 1969, more than 3000 people died in less than two months' time and the then govt. could do nothing about it? that the hostility/distrust of the majority of the Indian populace against a particular minority goes back to ages? that the present govt. was alert enough to prevent the carnage from spreading to other equally volatile states like UP, Haryana, Maharashtra etc?
One thing is sure - there are several who just do not want this govt to continue at the centre - so bring it down at any cost - had the riots spread to just two more states, there would have been a no-confidence motion in the Parliament and the NDA would have been pulled down and that is exactly what several anticipated and WANTED to happen - now that the riots have been effectively prevented from spreading to other states, the leftists/intellectuals are baying for ABV's blood, forgetting that Gujarat has a long history of violence -the Indian media is so biased (including "The Hindu", for which I had great respect until they began slandering the NDA meaninglessly) that you would think the opposition is actually paying them for the nonsense they write!
The very creation of Pakistan, is based on the ANTI-INDIA stand of its govt- we should understand this - the day, they stop this, the meaning of their existence becomes null - they might as well become a part of India - so for their very existence, an anti-India stance is a must- plus Pakistan's locus standi is very much favorable with CHina and the USA, until the September 11, 2001 mayhem! now the USA is treading a very dangerous line - give billion dollar aid to Pakistan for 'its unfailing efforts in helping Uncle Sam in fighting Al Qaeda' and the same money is actually used to fuel more terrorist camps! this will definitely come out in the AMerican press sometime or the other, and there will be a public outcry (like the one after Vietnam fiasco) - so the USA is treading a very cautious line - hence, this 'pal'ly attitude towards India! but overall, the West has a limited version/vision of the Kashmir issue - so it is all ours - we solve it our own way - when the BJP fails to use force and release the Kan
hostages, everyone accused them of being laidback/timid, and now when they want to take action, everyone blames them ! so it is a no-win situation for this govt! but in the end "Sathyameva Jayathe" - "Truth will Triumph"

Can you please take your harangue elsewhere? And FYI Roy lives in India. She is not part of the diaspora. Get your terminology right (and then learn how present a balanced argument.) Just don't come here and spew your half-baked, historically spurious and intellectually moribund nonsense. I believe your name is meant to be read with loads of irony?? Let me tell you this, my fellow country man: with an Indian like you, who needs enemies?

WILL SOMEONE FROM THE ADMINISTRATION OF THIS SITE PLEASE SEND THIS THREAD TO THE TRASH CAN? THANK YOU! And also, yes, please, make sure such threads are shredded just as soon as they are inaugurated? THANK YOU AGAIN.
Otherwise, no sensible and true music lover will ever visit here again.