Originally Posted by Kefka
More like equivalent to a 7 or so. Taste differ in Germany compared to the U.S, games like Risen or Two Worlds score better in Europe than here.

No, I agree with Gorath. American sites like Gamespot and IGN tend to be overly generous with their ratings. If it's getting 85-86% over there, that makes me even more optimistic that it's a quality title. I don't think being a 3rd-person aRPG has anything to do with it.

Originally Posted by JDR13
No, I agree with Gorath. American sites like Gamespot and IGN tend to be overly generous with their ratings. If it's getting 85-86% over there, that makes me even more optimistic that it's a quality title. I don't think being a 3rd-person aRPG has anything to do with it.

I agree with you in principal … but sites like Gamespot and IGN will trash non-EA/Ubi/bribe-score games so they can tout a 'fair and balanced' scorecard …

Originally Posted by JDR13
No, I agree with Gorath. American sites like Gamespot and IGN tend to be overly generous with their ratings.

..and a german mag reviewing a german game from one of the german top RPG makers, is obviously not overly generous. not saying the game is bad though, i really enjoyed the beta, and 85% doesnt sound like overly generous, at least i hope it isnt

The fans will buy it regardless. That is and it will always be that way.

The only question is if fans alone can generate enough profits for a) the survival of the developing form, and b) to fund the next game.

And I really don't believe that Sky Rim was bought by fans alone. Instead i rather tend to blieve that it just fitted nicely into a current fashion in gaming.

-- “ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)

Originally Posted by vurt
..and a german mag reviewing a german game from one of the german top RPG makers, is obviously not overly generous. not saying the game is bad though, i really enjoyed the beta, and 85% doesnt sound like overly generous, at least i hope it isnt

That's definitely true. German mags do in fact love German games and especially Piranha Bytes so PB will always get a few bonus points. Who doesn't remember Gothic 3 that collected high scores from several German mags initially? Some of the mags got caught red-handed and had to readjust their scores when the outrage over the true qualities (or lack thereof) of Gothic 3 started. It was very embarrassing for some of the bigger German mags (especially Gamestar).

In Risen 2's case it's kinda funny, too. The mags criticize the weak plot, the weak quests (FedEx FTW!), the lack of challenging fights due to the simple mechanics (including a too easy final boss fight apparently), graphical and AI bugs, and "wooden" characters.
All in all these are issues that would not seem too irrelevant for a RPG and yet Risen 2 gets these high scores.
This is definitely the PB bonus at work here.
Oh, and maybe the "bribes" helped as well. Gamestar has been getting tons of exclusives and they have featured so called advertorials for promotional purposes etc. … a fishy smell is in the air .
Who knows? Maybe the prerequisite for publishing an early review was at least a 85% score and that's why Gamestar and PC Games (the two biggest German print mags) went for their 85/86% scores.

Originally Posted by Moriendor
The mags criticize the weak plot, the weak quests (FedEx FTW!), the lack of challenging fights due to the simple mechanics (including a too easy final boss fight apparently), graphical and AI bugs, and "wooden" characters.
All in all these are issues that would not seem too irrelevant for a RPG and yet Risen 2 gets these high scores.

Ouch, weak quests and wooden characters was not what I was getting from the (admittedly limited) time in the beta (and what Brother None was saying from his more involved time with the press preview). These was actually the two areas I was hoping that improvements would balance out all the streamlining and nerfed gameplay…

Oh well, nothing much to do but wait and see now… Won't be interrupting my Arx replay for this though

Originally Posted by Moriendor
That's definitely true. German mags do in fact love German games and especially Piranha Bytes so PB will always get a few bonus points. Who doesn't remember Gothic 3 that collected high scores from several German mags initially? Some of the mags got caught red-handed and had to readjust their scores when the outrage over the true qualities (or lack thereof) of Gothic 3 started. It was very embarrassing for some of the bigger German mags (especially Gamestar).

G3 was before the war.

I disagree that German mags generally give bonus points German games. IMHO it's more the opposite, with a few exceptions (Anno, PB games, Ascaron's games).
The PB bonus is not such a big problem because Bethesda, Bioware and Blizzard get at least the same bonus, if not more. It's unfair to the 2nd tier - from the perspective of the German market - : Larian, Deck 13, Obsidian (if not working for Bethesda), etc. But it's like that everywhere. The Big Bs get a 5-10% bonus on their review scores for whatever reason.

The rating niveau is generally lower in Germany. An 85 here is equivalent to a 90 in the US. A German 85 is "very good", a US 85 only "good". And it's totally clear that every game under 80% definitely sucks.

Originally Posted by Moriendor
In Risen 2's case it's kinda funny, too. The mags criticize the weak plot, the weak quests (FedEx FTW!), the lack of challenging fights due to the simple mechanics (including a too easy final boss fight apparently), graphical and AI bugs, and "wooden" characters.
All in all these are issues that would not seem too irrelevant for a RPG and yet Risen 2 gets these high scores.

Damn, for a second I thought you're describing Oblivion. (Haven't played Skyrim yet.)

I both agree and disagree. It's strange they don't see all this as important. But on the other hand it doesn't matter for the scores competing RPGs get. So why should it matter for Risen 2?

Detail corrections:
The reviews don't criticize "the weak quests" but rather that a number of quests are rather simple. That's a big difference.
Furthermore it seems the "wooden characters" are a huge improvement over the first Risen - and only Bioware invests enough money to avoid this problem. So it's genre standard.