ADL: Some opponents of Ground Zero mosque are bigots, but we should let them win anyway

As you have probably heard, the Anti-Defamation League came out against the Ground Zero mosque today. I wanted to highlight this extraordinary bit from their statement:

Proponents of the Islamic Center may have every right to build at this site, and may even have chosen the site to send a positive message about Islam. The bigotry some have expressed in attacking them is unfair, and wrong. But ultimately this is not a question of rights, but a question of what is right. In our judgment, building an Islamic Center in the shadow of the World Trade Center will cause some victims more pain --unnecessarily -- and that is not right.

That's just amazing. This is basically a concession that some of the opposition to the mosque is grounded in bigotry, and that those arguing that the mosque builders harbor ill intent are misguided. Yet ADL is opposing the construction of the mosque anyway, on the grounds that it will cause 9/11 victims unnecessary "pain."

But look: The foes of this mosque whose opposition is rooted in bigotry are the ones who are trying to stoke victims' pain here, for transparent political purposes. Their opposition to this mosque appears to be all about insidiously linking the mosque builders with the 9/11 attackers, and by extension, to revive passions surrounding 9/11. To oppose the mosque is to capitulate to -- and validate -- this program.

On this one, you're either with the bigots or you're against them. And ADL has in effect sided with them.

Have there even been a lot of victims' families in the opposition crowd? I've mostly seen a lot of people not from NYC there. Just about everyone I know from NYC doesn't care that the mosque is being built there, and it would be disturbing if out of towners decided something on behalf of New Yorkers here.

Weiner is up for reelection, so he was just putting on a display of outrage for the voters in his home district, where the need to take care of those who's health was harmed, is a big issue.

Let me know when Weiner stages a similar show of outrage over the Republicans' demagoguing the proposed Muslim Center.

Why the hell should the American People vote to put Republicans in charge of National Security, when they all can be made to start wetting their beds, just by a simple proposal, made by peaceful Americans, to open a cultural center?!

Republicans are nothing but a party of bed wetting cowards, who are afraid of their own shadows.The Real Terrorists know that; because they saw how the could spook the Republicans and make Tom Ridge hoist his color swatches any time they wished.

I expect that when Tom Ridge urged all Americans to stock on Visquine and Duct Tape, several Terrorists died from convulsions of laughter.

also, this shows how transparently hypocritical rightwing republicans are when they call for local control. the locals approved it, but because they don't like it, rightwingers feel like they can tell the locals what to do.

Greg, not to nitpick, but please stop referring to this Islamic Center as a "mosque." Those are not mutually interchangeable terms. It is a community center with a prayer room. A mosque is a church, the center is not that.

1) Who has the power to approve/reject the building of the community center?

2) Can such a project be rejected on purely religious grounds?

3) The GOP used to pay a lot of lipservice to the "post 9/11 mindset." They also used to be very careful about not tarring all muslims as terrorists (at least W did.) That has, obviously, changed. So my final question is: Has the GOP now entered a period of "post-post 9/11 mindset?" Remember, the 9/11 rescue workers used to be heroes, now they are treated by Republican House members as just so much driftwood.

Personally; I think all religions are just ways for people to delude their-selves, and avoid accepting the reality of their own mortality.

That said: Since the USA is dominated by people who cherish those irrational superstitions; I see no reason to exclude one of those major religions from having the same rights as all the others.

Refresh my memory on this; but I seem to recall that a massive religious gathering of all faiths, was held in a New York stadium, just a few days after the 9/11 attacks took place, and there were several Muslim Religious Leaders featured in that gathering, which was televised nationally.

What has changed since, that Republicans now start wetting their beds at the mere mention of a Muslim Cultural Center?

I remember a time when leading Jewish organizations fought for non-discrimination and civil rights for all people. I guess they are now prosperous enough and far removed enough from protective covenants (We don't what Jews living in our Christian neighborhoods), all WASP country clubs, and racial profiling (all Jews are greedy, cheating, usurers--remember that?). If there isn't a massive outcry from ordinary Jews excoriating this bigoted decision, why should anyone stand up for them?

i like patton oswalt's take on how one group is talked into believing in sky cake and they eventually get into bloody religious wars with people who have been promised sky pie, sky bakhlava, sky tiro misu, sky...

Faulty logic. Two people and/or groups can oppose or support something on different grounds (and often do), but it doesn't mean either group is adopting the logic of the other and/or agreeing with their stance. Nor does it mean if the outcome sought by both groups is achieved, that either group has changed its motivation.

First of all, as other journalists have pointed out, this "cultural center" is not really at ground zero, it is several blocks away. Secondly it is a cultural center, that will have prayer space, not a Mosque, which shouldn't matter anyway. Thirdly, there were many Muslim victims also killed in the 9/11 attacks. The rationale by the ADL is outrageous, so they are against racism and bigotry, UNLESS it applies to Muslims? Kind of like Israeli policy on Palestine, big shock.

Not one single media professional has bothered to mention the 60 plus Muslim Americans who died on September 11th, 2001. What about honoring them? Even in death, they had the stigma of doubt cast upon them - branded as terrorists even as victims. These innocent victims included first responders and others who were minding their daily lives, earning a good honest living. These victims and their true faith deserve the honor and dignity that every victim of the attack deserves.

I don't think the Republicans should be allowed to open a campaign headquarters in my neighborhood. I know they have rights under the First Amendment and everything, but this isn't about rights, it is about what is right. Having a reminder of the Bush/Cheney Administration so close by causes me and my family too much pain.

The "Ground Zero Mosque" story is a complete distraction and shouldn't even be a story. Why? Well, as others have noted, it would not be a mosque. Second, it's not even on ground zero. It's near ground zero. So, the proper reference would be, "The NYC Islamic Community Center That Happens to Be Near Ground Zero."

So, why would any reasonable-minded person be bothered by this, again? You could ask the same question if it were really a mosque, and if it were really on ground zero, and maybe get the same answer from a reasonable person, but the basic facts make the entire faux-"story" really silly!

I don't think my neighborhood bookstore should be allowed to display Sarah Palin's new book. I know they have First Amendment rights and everything, but seeing Sarah Palin's face causes me to fear for our nation's future. Having to look at her picture in a bookstore window as I walk down the street just isn't right.

I am hoping and praying that Chelsey Clinton's decision to become the first American to get married in the past fifty years, and the Media Frenzy about it, will inspire at least one other couple to consider going the marriage route.

Liam, you should refrain from bashing Palin's children gratituitously. There might be some possible reason to do this when discussing abstinence only "sex" education, (sex is dirty and evil, save it for the one you love), but just to zing her with no possible relevance to this issue is small and mean spirited. I expect more from you. I am the farthest thing from a concern troll as you can see from my other posts. I just think that someone as smart and informed as you can make your points without picking on a teenage mom with Sarah Palin as a mother. Bristol is a person more to be pitied than censured.

The Jon Stewart traveling Gospel Singers are definitely called for here .... "GO F*** YOURSELVES"... to the ADL and to anyone opposed..

People HAVE A RIGHT in this country (which was FOUNDED on freedom to practice ANY religion you see fit) to follow the rules and implement what a majority of their members/followers have decided..

They've decided to build the Mosque...others have decided to do something else. Do the people that OWN the site have the necessary permits and what have you required to build the building?? Don't know.. If they do, what else do they have to do to get permission to start??

Non-thinkers are reacting irrationally here and may get someone hurt... stop.

Apparently you do not see the hypocrisy; in someone who had a child out of wedlock, demanding 15-30K appearance fees to lecture teens about practicing sexual abstinence. Of course Mama Grizzly also was pregnant and in her mid twenties, when she got married, and she also loves to lecture others on their sexual practices.

Bristol and Levi are trying to sell a reality show, based on their own lives, so your entire complaint is ridiculous.

Palin's Title is Reflections On Family. Pay Attention. She is the one who is shoving her family into the public spotlight.

When The Grizzly Family stops telling other Families how to raise their kids, then I will stop pointing out their own failings.

ADL, I am a Muslim and I have always supported the State of Israel and have love for the Israeli people. I did not learn of holocaust until the age of about 17 when I read about Ann Frank. The horror of what happened to the Jewish people has never left me, it is a shame that humanity will never be able to wipe away. As an adult I served in the United States Army and was stationed In Germany where my ideals were further strengthened against hate and bigotry and they have only grown stronger over the years.

You will find my name among your rolls and a former Israeli general will speak of my professionalism. The point I am trying make is this, I am extremely disappointed with your position on the Islamic center in New York City. What were you thinking about, at one hand you are acknowledging the bigotry involved in this issue and yet siding with the bigots? What happened to standing against the hate? Nearly 200 Muslims died at the Ground Zero too. I too was a part of the rescue and recovery. I have never step foot inside a masque as an adult and possibly never will but, I clearly see the hatred and I stand against it.

With all the hate mongers these days and even some elected officials advocating internment camps for Muslims, it is nerve racking and thoughts of being sent there are ever present. For the last 27 years I have been in public service, it is the kind of service when I leave home in the morning, the possibility of not returning home alive is in my thoughts. I PUT MY LIFE ON LINE EVERYDAY FOR OUR NATION and if I cannot depend on organizations such as yours then who will defend me when they come for me?

Once again, religion has poisoned politics. Once again, the sheer, simple brilliance of our Constitutional separation of religion from government is demonstrated.

When Republicans made a deal with the devil to gain power by promising evangelical Christians that they would move politically to support the untrue notion that "America is a Christian Nation", they opened the door for more Hate, more Division and more Fear in Politics.

The idea that ANY religion can impose its will on a civil decision in the U.S.A. is anathema to the true values of America.

"ADL: Some opponents of Ground Zero mosque are bigots, but we should let them win anyway"

Its not a thread about Palin's book, sexual abstinence training, or teen pregnancy.

I agree that it is both humorous and ironic that Bristol is now the poster child for abstinence as she carries her out of wedlock child around, but this isn't the topic of the thread, so technically its thread-jacking. You were the one to bring up the book and Bristol's behavior. Aside from the lack of taste, which is debatable, it is totally off subject. Reporting that Palin is against the community center is one thing (not what your brought up BTW). Spinning off on Palin's supposed child rearing miscues that allowed her daughter to be doing the nasty when not married is simply not germaine to this thread. As I said, on a parenting or abstinence thread, while I might not agree that it is tasteful, it is on topic. Here it is both off topic and gratuitous. I just expect better from someone as smart as you.

I despise editors and self appointed critics. If Greg has an objection to what I write, and where I write it, I will listen to what he has to say, but not to you. I buried you on your first silly complaint, so you resorted to the dreary self appointed blog monitor tactic.

I thought far more highly of you before today. Now I view you as just another one of those people who loves to get offended; over imaginary things.

If my remarks do not lacerate, then they are just mere Hallmark Shite.

I do not have an editor. I do not compose and rewrite. I comment on the fly. What you get from me is all an improvisational stream of thought.

If you can not handle it, then do not read it.

In The Words Of Van Morrison: I had: No Poet, No Guru, No Teacher;

So stop your silly whinging; I am not going to let you dictate how I speak.

Some lines from Dylan Thomas

"In My Craft or Sullen Art

In my craft or sullen art
Exercised in the still night
When only the moon rages
And the lovers lie abed
With all their griefs in their arms,
I labor by singing light
Not for ambition or bread
Or the strut and trade of charms
On the ivory stages
But for the common wages
Of their most secret heart.

Not for the proud man apart
From the raging moon I write
On these spindrift pages
Nor for the towering dead
With their nightingales and psalms
But for the lovers, their arms
Round the griefs of the ages,
Who pay no praise or wages
Nor heed my craft or art."

The ADL statement is bewildering. On the one hand they show sensitivity to the importance of cultural and religious diversity and even call out some of the strident opposition as intolerant bigotry. On the other hand, they decide to take a position against the center being built in this location because some victims might/will be pained by it. If this is their view, and they don't see it an ADL bread and butter issue, why not just stay out of it and refrain from offering any recommendation? Don't issue a press release or issue one that says we see it as a local issue that should be decided by New Yorkers. As far as Greg's comment that they are siding with bigots, I think that's unfair and beyond the pale. You can be harshly critical of them for choosing victim sensitivity over egalitarianism or fault them for wading in at all, but saying they're siding with bigots? Sounds like the typical toxic tactics used in Washington to destroy the character of political opponents -- such as on the war issue: if you're against the war, you're siding with terrorists and against our troops; or if you're a politician who votes against a spending program because it isn't paid for with other spending cuts or new taxes or because you think the bill won't be effective, you're against helping the needy, etc. Sometimes individuals or organizations should be called out for their votes and positions as bigoted, callous or wrong but our debates should be more civilized and we should hold our fire.

What the left continually omits from all of these one sided arguments is that it is NOT the religious aspect that is offensive as it is the leader of this proposed mosque who is on record stating that 9/11 was our own fault due to our policies and also under question is the financing which appears to come possible from some of the very people we ARE at war with currently. I'm certain if this PC behavior continues it will mark the end of us due to sheer stupidity.

What the left continually omits from all of these one sided arguments is that it is NOT the religious aspect that is offensive as it is the leader of this proposed mosque who is on record stating that 9/11 was our own fault due to our policies and also under question is the financing which appears to come possible from some of the very people we ARE at war with currently. I'm certain if this PC behavior continues it will mark the end of us due to sheer stupidity.

Posted by: catherineusa

=====================================

what YOU don't get is that we don't discriminate based on what YOU find offensive

what part of freedom of religion don't YOU get ???

keep pulling those reasons out of your arse

lask week it was because the Mosque

yesterday it was because there are no christian churches in Saudi Arabia

now it's because of a guy's opinion on 9-11

I don't care why your panties are in a wad

I live in AMERICA, where we respect every opinion and every religion

if you can't live up to America's values, at least shut up and stop embarrassing us

I assume you wouldn't protest a KKK office next door to the site of Dr. King's assassination. Or is it only some opinions and religions you respect?

Posted by: RhymesWithRight

================================

you equate the klan to Islam ???

what the he11 is wrong with you ???

have you not intelligence sir

at long last, have you no intelligence at all

DUMBEST COMPARISON EVER

you really scored some points with that one, stupid

Posted by: nada85484 | July 30, 2010 4:42 PM

* * * * * * *

Your exact words were, and I quote, "I live in AMERICA, where we respect every opinion and every religion".

I therefore asked if you would be supportive of a KKK office right next to the site of Dr. King's assassination -- after all, if you truly respect "every opinion and every religion", how could you possibly object to such a thing?

Interesting that you responded with a personal attack rather than a rational response based upon what you claimed was a principled stand on behalf of the freedom of everyone to hold and express philosophical and religious views in this country. I guess you are not nearly so principled as you claim to be.

In short, it does not matter whether or not I consider the KKK and Islam to be morally equivalent (I don't -- while I hold the paramilitary wing of the Democrat Party in deep contempt, my contempt for the teachings of the Religion of Jihad is even deeper), because my point was to demonstrate that your argument was false and hypocritical.

"it is the leader of this proposed mosque who is on record stating that 9/11 was our own fault due to our policies"

Posted by: catherineusa | July 30, 2010 3:36 PM |

I see you still haven't provided a link to support your contention. By the way, Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell blamed the Americans and U.S. policy for 9/11 as well. http://www.snopes.com/rumors/falwell.asp

Thank you, Greg. The duplicity of the ADL is unbelievable. Why don't they just say they are now on the side of bigotry?

Many houses of regular Muslim folks have a prayer room, but that doesn't make their house a mosque. This Community Center has a prayer room that is only functional during the times the Community Center is open, and it is not a mosque--most of the space within the building will be used for community activities. ADL has truly disappointed me by seeking to curry favor with the bigots and opportunists (many from outside the area) who wish to make political hay out of this situation. The rights guaranteed by Our constitution for which my family has fought and served for decades are sacrosanct. Respect the freedom of religion.

Gee, nada, this should be loads of fun, to take apart your load of irrationality.

"the KKK is a terrorist organization"

Which is, of course, precisely what I labeled it. Sadly, that description applies to Islam, the Religion of Jihad, every bit as much as it does to the KKK.

"Islam is a respected world wide religion"

Respected by who? Fools, cowards, and its brainwashed followers -- the civilized world holds the hate-filled teachings of the pedophile prophet and his pagan moon god in contempt.

"the klan deals is murder, terrorism, and racial supression PERIOD"

And Islam deals in anti-Semitism, jihad, and religious suppression, PERIOD (see, I can type in all caps to make my point, too).

"the kkk is and was always a group of people who were determined to undermine the rights of Americans, based upon skin color"

Islam is and was always a group of people who were determined t undermine the rights of all non-Muslims, based upon religion.

"I'll let you explain how the kkk is comparable to Islam"

I just have explained how they are comparable -- and deserving of contempt.

"but I warn you, you are on a fool's mission"

But I took the mission assigned me by a fool named nada, and completed it successfully.

"only the most despicable persons on the planet would attempt to equate violent murderous behavior with the teachings of Allah"

Now that is rich! Given the record of violence in the name of Islam, starting with the acts of the pedophile prophet and continuing to the present day, the KKK looks like a bunch of rank amateurs in comparison. Indeed, on a slow day there are more people killed in the name of Islam that the Klan killed in its entire despicable, malignant history.

"you got the right to your opinion

and Myself and the rest of the civilized world had the right to despise you for it"

For what? Condemning terrorist organizations, whether cloaked in white sheets or desert robes? For having read the Qu'ran and recognized it as the evil work it is, comparable to Mein Kampf in the harm it has caused?

"do you realize what you're about to do ???"

Yeah -- condemn terrorism and terrorists.

"you would defend MURDER, to further your bigoted goals"

Where have I defended murder?

"you MUST be a christian"

And you MUST be a follower of the pedophile prophet and his demonically-inspired faith.

"Blight rhymes with right

did I guess your secret identity"

Not at all, nada -- which interestingly enough means "nothing", which is the level of esteem anyone with an ounce of sense should hold you.

In line with the astounding gymnastic feats of logic and deduction performed in his article, will Mr Greg Sargent be writing a further article describing the British troops who liberated Bergen-Belsen Concentration Camp as bigots, because some British people no doubt hated Germans. Maybe Mr Greg Sargent would argue that the British should have offered the SS to keep the camp in operation exterminating Jews and arranged holidays in France for the SS personnel at country châteaux, complete with champagne and caviar, lest the British Army be accused of having a bigoted attitude towards Germans ?

British troops enter the concentration camp after negotiating a truce with the German commandant.

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