Sure, point was the infighting conservatives and liberals have make addressing the situation that much harder. Having honest and productive discussions may help. We did that here for the most part. Would you like to participate in that, or make thinly veiled personal attacks?

What percentage of Christians would prefer Biblical law to secular law? This desire is not unique to muslims.

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100% of muslims prefer sharia. Christians who want to live under bible law are not many, and only the kooks.

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Source?

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The koran. Sharia is a central part of being a Muslim.

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Following Halakha is a central part of being Jewish. Does that mean that 100% of Jews prefer Halakha over the Constitution?

Like Sharia, Halakha was compilated in another era, and calls for such punishments as stoning for adultry, even though that is no longer practiced.

Most religious people have found ways to reconcile their religious beliefs to the ethics of a modern society.

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Jews are civilized, Muslims aren't. Muslims want to live under sharia and you should not try to rationalize away everything they do because other religions have managed to become civilized but Islam has not.

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I try to look at facts, not conjecture, in order to form my opinion and so far you provided no evidence that a majority of Muslims in the US want Sharia to be the law of the land. None. That's not rationalizing - that's looking at the evidence. If evidence (not conjecture) - I'd be happy to look at it.

Sure, point was the infighting conservatives and liberals have make addressing the situation that much harder. Having honest and productive discussions may help. We did that here for the most part. Would you like to participate in that, or make thinly veiled personal attacks?

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I have in no way made a personal attack. And asking you to explain your comments in the OP is a perfectly fair question.

Again, what is this 3rd form of hate you bring up in the OP? Please explain. I'm not seeing it. Where is it?

Christianity and Islam are not the same, and those who attempt to create false equivalencies do so because they have an Islamic agenda to promote. WHY they do this is anybody's guess as it probably arises from some psychological need or another, but it sure isn't rational, that's for sure.

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Christianity springs from Judaism, which had a quite well documented (in the Bible) history of murdering people and stealing their land. And Christians have engaged in that pattern for at least a thousand years, as well, forcing people to convert at the point of a sword and stealing their land.

So, when you draw from historical sources to say that Islam is intolerant and conquest driven, it is quite reasonable to point out that you hold Islam to a different standard than you hold Judaism and Christianity, which have a thousand year history of conquest and intolerance.

Do I think that Christians pose the immediate threat that Muslims do? Not precisely in this time frame.

But for me, as a non-Christian living in the U.S., Christianity causes far me and my neighbors more discomfort and problems for me than Islam does. Christianity is responsible for my state's dreadful laws discriminating against gays and lesbians. It's responsible for incursions into women's private lives and attempts to force women to conform to a particular form of behavior around unplanned pregnancies. Donald Trump and Ted Cruz, both candidates for the presidency, support making abortion not just unavailable, but ILLEGAL, with criminal penalties. Christians have been responsible for bombing abortion clinics, shooting abortion providers, terrifying women attempting to receive reproductive services, and other acts of terror.

It's interesting to me how many conservative Christians are oh so concerned about Islam's dreadful record on human rights, women's rights and gays and lesbians, without realizing that just because we aren't KILLING gays and lesbians in this country doesn't mean that we have been particularly tolerant and accepting of gays and lesbians. And even though the government isn't killing people for being gay, or prosecuting them for sodomy much anymore, gays, lesbians and transvestites are often the target of violent crimes in the U.S., merely for being gay, lesbian or transvestite. And sodomy laws are still on the books in many southern states, and are used to prosecute gay men criminally, in essence for being gay men. 12 states still ban sodomy a decade after court ruling

No, we aren't hanging many gay men for being gay, but we are no beacon of tolerance and light. Westernization is still a process, and in some ways, we lag behind other western nations in terms of protecting human rights, and the majority of that has to do with fundamentalist Christian influence.

So, thanks for sharing, but I'm going to continue to point out the hypocritical nature of some of your proclamations about Islam, in light of the standard you hold other religions to.

Do I want Muslims running things in the U.S.? Hell no.

But I don't particularly want Christians running things according to their archaic beliefs, either.

And as a resident of North Carolina, fundamentalist Christians are currently making the lives of many people in my state more dangerous and difficult, which goes beyond unpleasantness.

So, they are a larger concern to me than Muslims.

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That was a great post - you put everything in the right context - simply wow!!!

In my opinion, the fact that differing standards are consistently being applied to Islam then are to other religions, regardless of the rationalizations - is part of what makes it "Islamphobia" or whatever "ist" term you want to use.

In addition to stop making broad generalizations about Muslims, stop trying to ‘blame’ Islam as a religion for the acts of terror committed by individuals alone.

Terrorist who are incidentally Muslim have misappropriated and perverted the tenets of Islam in an effort to justify and conceal their criminal acts – again: the blame rests solely with the terrorists, not the religion they claim to practice.

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Actually, they are following the direct example of Mohammad.

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When Mohammad invaded people's lands, he was actually quite adamant about ordering his followers to rape women in front of their husbands before killing the men and taking all that was theirs, for instance. The hadiths even mention that some of the men were reluctant to do that, yet he ordered them to.

Christianity and Islam are not the same, and those who attempt to create false equivalencies do so because they have an Islamic agenda to promote. WHY they do this is anybody's guess as it probably arises from some psychological need or another, but it sure isn't rational, that's for sure.

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Christianity springs from Judaism, which had a quite well documented (in the Bible) history of murdering people and stealing their land. And Christians have engaged in that pattern for at least a thousand years, as well, forcing people to convert at the point of a sword and stealing their land.

So, when you draw from historical sources to say that Islam is intolerant and conquest driven, it is quite reasonable to point out that you hold Islam to a different standard than you hold Judaism and Christianity, which have a thousand year history of conquest and intolerance.

Do I think that Christians pose the immediate threat that Muslims do? Not precisely in this time frame.

But for me, as a non-Christian living in the U.S., Christianity causes far me and my neighbors more discomfort and problems for me than Islam does. Christianity is responsible for my state's dreadful laws discriminating against gays and lesbians. It's responsible for incursions into women's private lives and attempts to force women to conform to a particular form of behavior around unplanned pregnancies. Donald Trump and Ted Cruz, both candidates for the presidency, support making abortion not just unavailable, but ILLEGAL, with criminal penalties. Christians have been responsible for bombing abortion clinics, shooting abortion providers, terrifying women attempting to receive reproductive services, and other acts of terror.

It's interesting to me how many conservative Christians are oh so concerned about Islam's dreadful record on human rights, women's rights and gays and lesbians, without realizing that just because we aren't KILLING gays and lesbians in this country doesn't mean that we have been particularly tolerant and accepting of gays and lesbians. And even though the government isn't killing people for being gay, or prosecuting them for sodomy much anymore, gays, lesbians and transvestites are often the target of violent crimes in the U.S., merely for being gay, lesbian or transvestite. And sodomy laws are still on the books in many southern states, and are used to prosecute gay men criminally, in essence for being gay men. 12 states still ban sodomy a decade after court ruling

No, we aren't hanging many gay men for being gay, but we are no beacon of tolerance and light. Westernization is still a process, and in some ways, we lag behind other western nations in terms of protecting human rights, and the majority of that has to do with fundamentalist Christian influence.

So, thanks for sharing, but I'm going to continue to point out the hypocritical nature of some of your proclamations about Islam, in light of the standard you hold other religions to.

Do I want Muslims running things in the U.S.? Hell no.

But I don't particularly want Christians running things according to their archaic beliefs, either.

And as a resident of North Carolina, fundamentalist Christians are currently making the lives of many people in my state more dangerous and difficult, which goes beyond unpleasantness.

So, they are a larger concern to me than Muslims.

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That was a great post - you put everything in the right context - simply wow!!!

In my opinion, the fact that differing standards are consistently being applied to Islam then are to other religions, regardless of the rationalizations - is part of what makes it "Islamphobia" or whatever "ist" term you want to use.

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I agree. The fact of the matter is that her points fall on deaf ears. Christianity affects American's everyday lives way more than Islam does.

Whenever dishonest apologists compare Christianity to Islam,. they rely on a number of ruses. These, collectively represent Tu Quoque fallacies -- the old, "Well, THEY do it TOO" arguments similar to those children offer their mothers to try to justify bad behavior. I can just envision the fists balling up as they pout "Well, Christians do it TOO", whereupon they seize upon thee different strategies to support Islam through false equivalences.

The first of these dishonest ruses has to do with degree. If, say, 67% of Muslims believe in killing apostates, in order to defend this barbarity, they will report quite smugly that Christians do it too. Of course, the percentage of Christians might be 0.2%, but who cares, right? All that matters is the defense of Islam.

The second of these dishonest ruses has to do with magnitude -- the comparison of something disgusting with something merely irritating. If apostates are killed by Islam, then just dredge up the notion of some Christians shunning theirs and voila' their apologists work is done.

The third ruse involves a bizarre notion that some rift in the fabric of space and time has created two distinctly different time lines. When Muslims are rampaging across the globe doing as Mohammad did, they love to point out how Christians did some naughty things 400 years ago (and who WEREN'T doing as Jesus did). Like, yeah -- that sure makes the point, doesn't it?

What is at work here is a form of dogmatism instead of open-mindedness. Instead of indulging in an honest examination of the differences between the two religions, not only in terms of doctrine, function and the relative lives of two prophets involved, they simply decide they absolutely MUST defend Islam, and so retrofit all their arguments in reverse in order to pick and chose bits that defend. In essence, they are acting like the most rigid religious Christian fundamentalist who doesn't actually read Jesus teachings, but just picks and chooses this little bit or that little bit lifted from the O.T. to justify whatever it is they wish to justify.

Christianity and Islam are not the same, and those who attempt to create false equivalencies do so because they have an Islamic agenda to promote. WHY they do this is anybody's guess as it probably arises from some psychological need or another, but it sure isn't rational, that's for sure.

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The "why" is the fascinating question to me.

I think you presented a pretty good theory on another thread.

I would post a link to it, but I might get in "trouble."

.

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The 'why' is interesting to me too. I would like to know where Dog's theory is, but if it would break rules to post it. . . .I'll just speculate on that. . .

But invariably those who defend Islam so passionately are the ones who most often--not always but most often--are hyper critical to the point of dishonesty re Christianity and also re those who are realistic about the intentions of militant Islam. They cannot see that feelings and attitudes about individual Muslims and Islamic intentions are entirely two separate things and are not related to each other.

And the 'why' it is important for them to do that, I don't know. But it certainly does affect our national policy, creates pressure to increase danger to U.S. citizens by bringing in large numbers of unvetted refugees. And they will not admit or see how easy it would be for al Qaida or ISIS or any other terrorist group to infiltrate those refugees. They would put their loved ones and ours at higher risk all in the name of political correctness. And they will not acknowledge the poor status of human rights and the imposition of Sharia law in essentially all predominantly Islamic countries that exist. There might be one or two exceptions, but I cannot name any.

But yes, "why" is that the case?

And I don't know how we have a discussion about this topic unless that reality is included.

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Indeed, and that is the very topic of the thread I'm evidently not allowed to link to: Why are the very people who attack Christians and Christianity with such passion and frequency, who are so willing and ready to paint them with such a broad brush, so completely tolerant of another religion?

And, of course, a religion that is even MORE antithetical to their beliefs than the one they attack?

And even more, a religion that includes groups that are wreaking havoc, terrorism and pain all around the world, right now, as you read this? A religion with adherents who would be more than happy to slaughter my beautiful children today, simply because they don't share religions?

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