Author
Topic: Ultimates (Read 18781 times)

I have the book and the reviews here are pretty accurate. It's a good read but not Earth shaking. However it's a solid piece of writing, good art, imaginative, and will launch into even better stuff immediately. Ewing is doing a good job, and will doeven better in the future.

Ewing is speedily eclipsing his good but not Earth shaking opener to being now CRAZY COSMIC with serious serious no joke reach and firepower. It's absolutely jaw dropping, all the truly cosmic stuff that he's hitting right out the gate. Galactus, Anti-Man, Eternity...ya boi Ewing is on smash status. And his characters...especially the lesser developed, smaller name characters...are really coming on. I really hope the sales start swinging up, because this is a very good series on its way to outstanding and probably magnificent.

Ewing is speedily eclipsing his good but not Earth shaking opener to being now CRAZY COSMIC with serious serious no joke reach and firepower. It's absolutely jaw dropping, all the truly cosmic stuff that he's hitting right out the gate. Galactus, Anti-Man, Eternity...ya boi Ewing is on smash status. And his characters...especially the lesser developed, smaller name characters...are really coming on. I really hope the sales start swinging up, because this is a very good series on its way to outstanding and probably magnificent.

A long time ago, a comment was made that "cosmic" storylines don't sell. I'm not sure they meant "in space" but these cosmic concepts. Then I read some fans who really hate these stories, because...well they say don't get them. They can't deal with the concepts, the scale. They find it unrelatable. I guess they prefer more grounded good-guys/bad guys storylines. Personally, I never had that problem and love these cosmic concepts, but I wonder if these series is too cosmic to sell well to the masses. (It doesn't make it bad, but it could keep sales numbers lower.)

Of course, I'm not a fan of the art and don't really think he fits this style of story. But a) that's just my preference, and b) Marvel's art quality has been downhill for a while now. I can't think of a single book from Marvel that I would buy just because of the artist.

Ewing is speedily eclipsing his good but not Earth shaking opener to being now CRAZY COSMIC with serious serious no joke reach and firepower. It's absolutely jaw dropping, all the truly cosmic stuff that he's hitting right out the gate. Galactus, Anti-Man, Eternity...ya boi Ewing is on smash status. And his characters...especially the lesser developed, smaller name characters...are really coming on. I really hope the sales start swinging up, because this is a very good series on its way to outstanding and probably magnificent.

A long time ago, a comment was made that "cosmic" storylines don't sell. I'm not sure they meant "in space" but these cosmic concepts. Then I read some fans who really hate these stories, because...well they say don't get them. They can't deal with the concepts, the scale. They find it unrelatable. I guess they prefer more grounded good-guys/bad guys storylines. Personally, I never had that problem and love these cosmic concepts, but I wonder if these series is too cosmic to sell well to the masses. (It doesn't make it bad, but it could keep sales numbers lower.)

Of course, I'm not a fan of the art and don't really think he fits this style of story. But a) that's just my preference, and b) Marvel's art quality has been downhill for a while now. I can't think of a single book from Marvel that I would buy just because of the artist.

I'm feelin this response above. I have frequently been baffled at the lack of love characters like Silver Surfer receive, even when they get great art and a great story. I think your explanation above hits the target dead on, and is kinda strange. It's not that big of a leap from Guardians of the Galaxy and Star Wars to Silver Surfer, and Rom the Space Knight. From Star Trek and Battlestar Galactica, Space Ghost and Green Lantern Corps to Adam Warlock.

Or Ultimates.

Yet. The overwhelming majority of readers seem unwilling to make this leap.

sidebar: maybe there should be a black illuminati in the Marvel U: Check out this scanned page from the original Contest of Champions story: there's a panel that features a huddle of Power Man, Falcon, Black Panther, Dr. Voodoo, and a bald guy I don't recognize.. Hmm...

sidebar: maybe there should be a black illuminati in the Marvel U: Check out this scanned page from the original Contest of Champions story: there's a panel that features a huddle of Power Man, Falcon, Black Panther, Dr. Voodoo, and a bald guy I don't recognize.. Hmm...

That is AMAZING. I have NEVER seen 3 Black heroes together on page without White heroes around until RH did it. I didn't think such a picture EVER PREVIOUSLY EXISTED before RH.

RH still is the man, though. He made history by having a WHOLE ARC...still my favorite arc of his, 4 THE HARD WAY...like that.

BTW a Black Illuminati would have to include:

TChallaShuriRambeauVoodoo...who could/should be renamed Baba or Oso Ori, Orunmila or Obatala, instead of "Doctor" or "Brother" ANYTHINGFalconBladePower ManStormCaptain UniverseNight Thrasher or whatever the leader of Hyperion's team name is [ can't believe I forgot, cuz I like him ]Nightmask

Deathlok maybe? [ after being freed of brainwashing and amped by Wakandan tech ]

We go all new and pull out a sista from Afrika, a Nigerian, a Yoruba Adept of Oya. Give shady Zawaviri someone to mentor. She would be a very powerful Psi and Ka Adept. Omega potential.

War Machine? somebody needs to rewrite War Machine and build more on Pak's stories which separate him from Iron Man as a character and with relevant abilities...

and the magic oriented subset of sistahs and bruthas above should form a superteam of their own, battling magic threats. Not like we don't have an overabundance of those, drawn from our OWN mythos and whatnot. Wakanda has its own superarmy of magic wielders to handle these threats, too.

sidebar: maybe there should be a black illuminati in the Marvel U: Check out this scanned page from the original Contest of Champions story: there's a panel that features a huddle of Power Man, Falcon, Black Panther, Dr. Voodoo, and a bald guy I don't recognize.. Hmm...

This is a tremendous find Hype! I still maintain that it was very out of character for T'Challa to reverse his established stance on throwing in with an "Illuminati" group and I certainly don't see Shuri being inclined to do so. I only see Cage, Falcon, Dr. Voodoo, Monica Rambeau, War Machine, Night Thrasher... the Marvel U's African American heroes banding exclusively together to combat institutionalized white supremecy or some threat that caused African Americans to distrust the involvement of white heroes. Otherwise Falcon would surely bring in Cap, War Machine - Tony, Cage - Danny, etc. As for T'Challa, I think Preist accurately portrayed his detachment from such American issues in Enemy of the State when Cap asked him to address the crowd in the streets. I don't see T'Challa being compelled to join them unless motivated by a specific threat to Wakanda.

Here is the problem with the whole Illuminati storyline. Bendis error the storyline to make the gathering fail. Because of that Reggie was wise to keep BP far from it. It was a doomed gathering.

The thing is, it shouldn't have been. It should have been a successful gathering of Heroes. And T'challa, Cap and Thor should have been part of it. But this desire to taint heroes doomed them. So yeah, T'challa should have joined then but they shouldn't have failed like that.

On a pure fantasy level, I'd say it's definitely worth following up on the conversation that was had with all those guys, lol. Maybe there's a charter or blueprints laying around in someone's secret vault.

The adventures could range from cosmic to street-level, frequently since the "Third World" countries tend to be largely ignored by the mainstream heroic community. I'd love it if there were a semi-rotating roster with a core plus some guests based on the mission at hand.

Now that Marvel is publishing the female-centric A-Force, there's no excuse why they can't seriously come up with something like this.

For the Black Illuminati, I'm wondering a couple black villains shouldn't also be in the mix: Deadly Nightshade, Moses Magnum.

I thought of Deadly Nightshade, but...I just couldn't see a character reason for her presence. Her SPECIFIC presence. Everyone else mentioned thus far? I can see a reason why THEY SPECIFICALLY could benefit the Black Illuminati.

Real talk? I wanted it to be more like the Ogdoad and follow the Afrikan cultural requirements. For every man, you needed a woman. For every woman, you needed a man. Balancing pairs with balancing powers, personalities, abilities, etc. Even then? I couldn't see how Deadly Nightshade could outperform Wakandan experts of the field. Or be so far ahead in her specialty that, say...Shuri, or one of my Kifalme Mushajaa Heshima [ Royal Warriors of Honor, the correct name and title for the stupidly named BLACK MUSKETEERS ]...couldn't not just replace but ECLIPSE her skill set.

And Moses Magnum? Tech? When you roll with Wakanda? Please. Kaint see it.

Now. The thing is...if we bring in a villain...that villain must have a compelling skill set and/or power or SOMETHING that makes THAT VILLAIN SPECIFICALLY REQUIRED. Aaand. We have to have a good reason TO THE VILLAIN for the villain to throw in with the "heroes". That takes, imo, newly created villains who are made specifically for that role.

The other idea I had...scrubbed straight from Hickman tbh...was to create a Black villainous ILLUMINATI. Their solutions and their clashes with the "heroes" could be most interesting and "illuminating" regarding character motives, choices, battles, feats, etc. But these would have to be largely wholesale created.

Here is the problem with the whole Illuminati storyline. Bendis error the storyline to make the gathering fail. Because of that Reggie was wise to keep BP far from it. It was a doomed gathering.

The thing is, it shouldn't have been. It should have been a successful gathering of Heroes. And T'challa, Cap and Thor should have been part of it. But this desire to taint heroes doomed them. So yeah, T'challa should have joined then but they shouldn't have failed like that.

I see exactly where you're coming from, and respect that. But...I disagree in a certain way.

I too agree that the heroes should have vanquished the threat. Even with Bendis, the heroes DID vanquish the enemy. What I see as the most telling point of Bendis' story is that the heroes failed WITH EACH OTHER. The only thing more powerful than their united powers and genius is their united hubris and arrogance. In my opinion, that is also a much more interesting story to tell.

For that reason, TChalla should NOT have joined them. Imo. Not THOSE heroes. ANOTHER group that is similarly mighty but WITHOUT the ph.d. in hubris, perpetual ego inflation and backstabbing? Yeah.

On a pure fantasy level, I'd say it's definitely worth following up on the conversation that was had with all those guys, lol. Maybe there's a charter or blueprints laying around in someone's secret vault.

The adventures could range from cosmic to street-level, frequently since the "Third World" countries tend to be largely ignored by the mainstream heroic community. I'd love it if there were a semi-rotating roster with a core plus some guests based on the mission at hand.

Now that Marvel is publishing the female-centric A-Force, there's no excuse why they can't seriously come up with something like this.

That is a good catch! HOW DID YOU FIND THIS TALISMAN GUY from the pic? Appreciate the sleuthing skills, bruh.

Street Illuminati? Hmmm...I like that, but...not for THEE Illuminati. Street level threats rise to corporate and global threats. That's the purview of say Parker Technology or whatever it's called now, Stark International, etc. Criminals would be like HYDRA, AIM, The Hand and KINGPIN. Periodically, the likes of a Silver Sable. There are already heroes for that. But I don't see the need for an ILLUMINATI approach for that.

The Illuminati are supposed to be thee best and brightest of their ilk. Who could we assemble that is BETTER than Punisher, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Gambit, Elektra, Shang Chi, etc etc AND THEY'RE BLACK?

We'd have to make the characters up. Which I think we should.

And in so doing, find a way to really substantially differentiate them from some street level incarnation of The Avengers. I mean...if they were to be distinct from being tagged as street level Avengers, they'd also have to say take on a hit squad like flavor. They'd have to be willing to KILL their enemies. Which would draw the attention and ire of their street level heroic White counterparts. And SHIELD. But SHIELD could roust the street people living in the neighborhood that these Street Illuminati live in. And DEADPOOL INC could be hired to take our heroes out. TASKMASTER could be hired for the same reason. See where I'm going with this? Ya gotta really think this stuff out before committing to such an idea as genuinely valid.

But they'd also have to have both access to highly sensitive international close hold secrets as well as having established their own street level intelligence operation. The kind of mission they undertake depends upon where they got their info, and the kind of steps they'd take for self protection would have similar roots. Shuri sends you to wipe out some next generation super-AIDS making biology lab? That's One thing.

Da homie Sugah Momma tells you her daughter's missing, and in the course of tracking down the missing girl you break up the local drug and gang cartel, car thief ring, oust a few nonBlack businesses for selling substandard and often tainted food and drinks to the hood...and return the missing girl only to find out Sugah Momma's daughter is pregnant by one of the dudes who got unknowingly infected by the Super AIDS? That's another.

...

Street level Illuminati would have to include Bishop and Blade. Storm and TChalla's daughter and son. Etc. If we want to keep the roster fresh and exciting. Storm and Monica would have to be in, at both street and cosmic levels.

But whoever we select and/or create, we should follow the Afrikan Ogdoad Principle. Balanced energies. A team of equal parts male and female...and they don't always have to be full fledged adults.