Originally posted by PurpleChiten
yet they still lie less than the opposing side...

scary huh?

A lie would be an intentionally false statement about something that is factual, and so yes Obama/Biden are lying through their teeth just to get past
Nov. Remember the key word here is factual as in they are lying or misrepresenting factual events.

Romney/Ryan economic plans are not factual, and so just because you disagree does not make them a lie, which would be more like Obama saying many
things to get elected but never planned on doing in the first place. Kind of like Biden lying about his college records that he went to law school and
was in the top of his class...he never went to law school and was in the bottom of his class for the degree he got. That there is a lie, so now you
got examples of lies that you can use as a litmus test in the future...

I didn't watch the Presidential debate -- basically because I think I've already decided and what people "say" is not nearly as important as what
they actually do. But I watched the Veep debate, because, well there was nothing on.

I do admit to being a bit of a Biden fan -- he gets the reputation for being "loony" and not bright, because he actually speaks his mind without
censure on occasion, and he's much more of a policy wonk than a politician. He doesn't where it on his sleeve to have the bona-fides with the
Religions Right, but he's one of the few REAL Christians in Washington -- and I say that as a devout agnostic, but he's one of the Christians who
make you think they might not all be bad.

In the debate, Ryan did seem to stay in command and have his wits about him -- as long as he wasn't telling the truth. Which fortunately for him,
wasn't often.

It was nice to see a Democrat (for once) standing up and blasting a bluffer when he was pulling nonsense out of his rear. I don't know what to do
with these debates when someone says; "I've got this bi-partisan proposal" and the record is that the Democrat who worked on it with him, left when
it turned into a bitter pill and it's clear that absolutely no Democrats support it. I wasn't shocked that he tried to make up blatantly false
statements, I was just shocked that for the first time in ten years, I saw a Democrat stand up on his hind paws and directly point it out.

Republicans keep "winning" because there is no referee. You make up your own facts and "anecdotes about what some little old lady citizen just told
you" and everybody is supposed to pretend you haven't been trying to destroy all the social programs that you want to "help" for the last decade.
Ryan can only exist in a society that doesn't care anymore about the truth.

Originally posted by watchman13
Biden and Obama lie so much. Pretty much anything they say the opposite is true. i think it is a propaganda tactic.

yet they still lie less than the opposing side...

scary huh?

Well, Obama doesn't seem to say THAT MUCH, other than act as Conservative Lite. Biden does however, make direct statements that could be tested. I
didn't catch him making any factually incorrect LIES, but I think he was stretching it when talking about who voted for the invasion of Iraq -- at
the time, Congress was actually voting to give Bush a PROVISION to follow the UN mandate IF HE FOUND WDMs, it was a cowardly weasel way to do it - but
it basically came down to the war was on Bush, and he had no mandate to be there because there were no WMDs.

But water under the bridge and all that. People still sound more upset over Monica's sexcapades than killing over 100,000 people (but they manage to
be outraged and relieved that Saddam is gone -- as if we didn't kill more people than he did).

Whatever. Obama is a huge disappointment for a Progressive like me. Honestly, after spending time listening to Libertarian, Austrian economics, and
American exceptionalism theories, I think I'm more of a Socialist now because I understand that wealth, power and religion always get corrupted and
that these "small government" theories only work if there is no corruption -- kind of how Communism works if everyone is honest, right?

I'm just so ready for the election to be over, so we can get on to the Republicans trying to impeach Obama for SOMETHING that is slightly less bad
than what they endorse. Obama sucks, but Romney has no agenda other than pleasing the psychopathic billionaires, APAC and PNAC which have attached
themselves to him.

We've got Goldman Sacks on the Left, and Goldman Sacks + Fascists on the Right. The choices is clear if not even more Repugnant than it was 4 years
ago.

Too bad the etch a sketch comment wasn't your original idea. I heard it being bandied by some liberal media personality.

Erm..the etch-a-sketch thing is from the lips of Romney's campaign senior advisor, Eric Fehrnstrom...pretty sure he isn't a liberal media
personality (well, guess it depends on which campaign we are discussing)
It sort of went viral. You been living under a rock?

Too bad the etch a sketch comment wasn't your original idea. I heard it being bandied by some liberal media personality.

And for good reason

What a clown!!

I think those two videos (and tons more) need to be just looped over and over to show just what a empty shell this guy is.
There is no depth, All politicians play the game, twist words to make people think they heard what they wanted to hear, but always giving a out.
This guy doesn't even attempt spin, he simply says whatever the crowd wants to hear, even if it is diametrically opposed to what he said 3 minutes
earlier.

Shows ya how much I listen to Romney campaign people eh? But I believe Chris Matthews also mentioned it. Everything always sounds bad coming from him.
And even worse from Ed Schultz

There is no depth,

Cmon, every politician in America knows that if he speaks too plainly, he will turn off roughly half of voters(the half from the opposing party and
also people in the center who could go etiher way).

Imagine if Barack had walked around telling everyone,"Yes yes I am Marxist and I am going to socialize medicine, nationalize the auto and finance
sectors, rip the private sector to shreds, and yes yes I am really a muslim Black Liberation theologist and I believe in James Cone's Marxist
ideology, as well as that of Saul Alinksky, and oh by the way I am also a member of the illuminatio Masonic temple of such and such and am a neophypte
of the Rothschilds and in their service, and yes, Bill Ayers is a good friend of mine and Valerie Jarrett's father in law was in fact a communist and
a friend of my Communist mentor Frank Marshall Davis, and I plan to bring Marxism to this country."

Imagine if he said all that on the stage? At present people know about it, but can dispute it because someone in a book said it.

Ideology is only the driving part of the plan. Anything can be done in secret by these people which you will never see evidence of or understand the
reasoning till it's too late. Nothing that happens on the world stage is obvious. That is how the Illuminati works.

Sometimes they do let the cat out of the bag, just a bit, with remarks lilke "spread the weatlh", and Maxine's famous, "This liberal would be all
about socia.,....uh uh basically we would take over all your companies"....of course that's code for nationalizing the entire oil industry and running
from the central government, which is what this entire band of socialists and communists are working hard on.

On the other side, Romny and Ryan have been very plain about wanting to keep the private sector(oh that horrid "privatizing" of stuff) the free
market, trade, prviate sector jobs, less govt control, and rolling back Obamacare, because that represents the single most important thing the
liberals have done in office which eats away at the free market and the private sector and freedom and liberty in this country.

Exactly what is hogwash, I would like to know. I want you to be more specific because all I hear in your statement is you believe the MSM viewpoint,
and the MSM other than Fox is for Obama's Marxism and more centralized govt.

People who support Obama are going around saying that Romney and Ryan are lying, and yet I do not hear the specifics, except in one or two rare cases,
like the medicare thing, which is the one thing I am pretty sure Ryan and Romney are not lying about, and while the Obama camp may not be expressly
lying about it, they are in a way by misrepresenting what Obamacare is going to do, and they most assuredly lying about what the Ryan proposal would
do. They have to do this to get people on board with the plan of Obamacare.

Did Biden or OBama come out on the platform and say, "Well, we already passed part of Obamacare in the Stimulus with the HITECH ACT, which was needed
to create our electronic health records database and get people on board with Big Brother having access to everyone's private health records in one
nice big database and everyone's databases all linking together, just like in Admiral Poindexter's TIA plan which even Congress shot down because
there were privacy issues, but we went ahead and passed this under the radar so no one would really get the connection." ????

Did Obama come out on the platform and say, "Well we are going to bring chaos to the ME and N Africa by sending in our flunkies Code Pink and Bill
Ayers and stir up the hornets nest and give money to our friends in the Muslim Brotherhood so they can set up camp and we are going to use the union
leaders to help unionize workers in those places to help bring in the Marxist one world proletariat Big Union and force all pro Capitalist pro Western
leaders in the region and turn them all against Isreal so we can start a war with Iran and Syria"....

He governed like an East Coast liberal, yet he claims to be "severely conservative".

Let me be clear about this. I supported Ron Paul in the primaries, and I am on record with NPR as saying so. So now, let us turn to the fact that
Romney is now the Republican candidate, and there is no way in tarnation I would ever vote for the obvious Marxist(I said that about Hillary too by
the way) so Romney gets my vote. Romney still represents the least amount of Marxism and so that is how it goes. It would be useless for me to write
in another candidate now or vote for Gary Johnson because I am primarily concerned about the programs the Obama camp is putting in place which is the
complete destruction of all liberty in the US and replaced with Marxist change. Anyone who has been truly watching knows this is what is going on. I
think a lot of people even here are denying reality when they say Obama is further right than other Democrat Presidents, or that he is more centrist,
or that he is not a Marxist.
True, some things the admin is doing is straight out of the playbook of PNAC or some other Illuminati plan, but some things are just plain left
Hegelian.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
Shows ya how much I listen to Romney campaign people eh? But I believe Chris Matthews also mentioned it. Everything always sounds bad coming from him.
And even worse from Ed Schultz

Don't know. I refuse to watch either of those two. I simply cannot stand their personality. Especially Ed.

I only watch (in regards to liberal commentators) Maddow. Mostly because she is pleasant to listen to, funny, and not so in your face..using facts and
studies over any emotional moaning. I do occasionally borrow stuff from her show. If your going to borrow stuff from others, make sure your borrowing
from the brightest, not the loudest.

Something republicans around here should learn. Rush Limbaugh, bad...Joe Scarborough, good (or whomever the clever commentator at the moment is)

Anyhow, Politicians generally toss some red meat to their base, but they know how absurdly crazy their base is..so once they win the party nomination,
they drop the crazy talk and start catering towards the non crazy center. This was a unspoken truth between both. Romney's campaign advisor just
made the mistake of stating this on a interview..the etch-a-sketch...what I said doesn't count because now we have to court the people that matter
sort of thing...
A inside thought and truth coming out...
Sucky thing about words...once their out, you can't just grab em and shove em back into your mouth

Romney flipflopping dozens of times within days of saying stuff isn't the MSM viewpoint...it's a FACT

And you're defence "but Obama's bad too" is laughable, is that the best you can come up with?

PS: You don't seem to understand what "marxism" means...watched too much Glenn Beck I guess

edit on 15-10-2012 by MrXYZ because: (no reason
given)

It isn't that Obama is bad. It is that he is a tool for the Marxist takeover of our govt, and standing behind him are various communists. These are
the people who have been running things in the WH...Valerie Jarrett and David Axelrod. I said it many times before yesterday when I heard Fox News
finally say it.
What can be more simple than that? Why do you want Marxism? I want to know what you find attractive about it? Perhaps it's that they have made
socializeid medicine sound so great, with several million people gaining access to health insurance(this does not do anything to improve actual
health care or it's costs) and keeps ins companies from denying people with pre existing conditions. But what they didn't tell you is that they
already passed portions of Obamacare with the HITECH ACT, which was part of the Stimulus spending. I already explaineed this once, but you didn't get
it. This is for upgrading IT systems in doctor's offices and hospitals to allow for electronic medical records so that the govt can have access to
everyone's private health records. I know you don't want to see that, but it is part of the Orwellian plan of control.
Why do you want that? Do you love your imprisonment?

Why would you say that I don't know what Marxism is? That is one of the most overused arguments I've seen in this forum. Perhaps it is because you
yourself do not understand the roots of Marxism, and how it is being implemented. Perhaps you do not realized the methodology being used. It is not
like the original Russian Bolshevik Revolution where everyone took up the cause all at once. No, it is much slower. It is being taught in the
Universities by Marxist professors. It is being promoted in programs over decades. It is being promoted in the culture. You've heard of cultural
Marxism haven't you?

Post-World War II, conservatives remained opposed to socialism and notions of social engineering, and have argued that "Cultural Marxists" and the
Frankfurt School helped spark the counterculture social movements of the 1960s as part of a continuing plan of transferring Marxist subversion into
cultural terms in the form of Freudo-Marxism.
Since the early 1990s, paleoconservatives such as Patrick Buchanan and William S. Lind have argued that "Cultural Marxism" is a dominant strain of
thought within the American left, and associate it with a philosophy to destroy Western civilization. Buchanan has asserted that the Frankfurt School
commandeered the American mass media, and used this cartel to infect the minds of Americans.[8]

Lind argues that,

"Political Correctness is cultural Marxism. It is Marxism translated from economic into cultural terms. It is an effort that goes back not to the
1960s and the hippies and the peace movement, but back to World War I. If we compare the basic tenets of Political Correctness with classical Marxism
the parallels are very obvious."[9]
Lind argues that "Political Correctness" has resulted in American citizens, particularly in academia, being "afraid of using the wrong word, a word
denounced as offensive or insensitive, or racist, sexist, or homophobic" and that such changes can be attributed to the influence of cultural
Marxists.[9] Conservative Paul Gottfried's book, The Strange Death of Marxism argues that Marxism survived and evolved since the fall of the Soviet
Union in the form of "cultural Marxism":

But make no mistake, the Obama admin is involved in the economic brand of Marxism with redistribution of wealth through progressive taxation(soak the
wealthy with higher taxes, make them pay their "fair share"--that is totally marxian economic thought...the socialists use this in their quest for
social and economic justice), in their taking over of the healthcare, auto, and finance sectors, promoting more govt involvement in our lives, Nanny
Statism.
Do you really want to pursue this line of argument with me? Because I do know what Marxism is, and I know what it does.

Maybe this technique will work with some people. Perhaps you feel if you just throw out the accusation that other people will discount my posts
because someone has disputed it.

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