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But hey, if you can come up with a better idea on how to pay for cleaning up the county's waterways and lakes without us having to pay for it either directly, or indirectly through loss of other services, go for it, perhaps Labour will listen to you if you get a really stunning idea.

Only had to think about this for 10 seconds before I came up with a better idea... put the tax on at the other end.

In 2017, New Zealanders will consume 21.3 million metric tonnes of milk fluids (Milk, Cream, UHT milk products, Flavoured milks etc). At a density of 1033, that is 20.6 billion litres. If Labour were to put a levy of 1c per litre of milk at the consumer sale end, it would make no signifact impact on the budgets of even the poorest of families, but would net the government $206m annually.

In 2017, New Zealanders will consume 23.5 litres of commercially bottled water per person. That is over 100 million litres. Put a levy on 10c per litre in that and it another $10m annually.

Far more both these products are exported. If they were to extend the levy to exports of water and milk (10c per litre on water, 1c per litre and 1c per kilogram on milk powder) there is at least another $500m that could be collected.

At best, Labour's proposed water royalty will get $120m from the ~1600 dairy farms in NZ at an average of $75,000 per farm). They can get $700m+ annually if they use my idea; more than enough to undertake a program of clean waterways and there will be money left over to clean up domestic water supplies as well so that we don't get another Havelock North.

__________________► 9/11 was a terrorist attack by Islamic extremists; 12 Apollo astronauts really did walk on the Moon; JFK was assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald,who acted alone.
► Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed. - Jay Utah
► Heisenberg's Law - The weirdness of the Universe is inversely proportional to the scale at which you observe it, or not.

I'm not a politician so I don't automatically gainsay everything the other side says just because they are the opposition. I judge the merit of what politicians say based purely on what I think of their ideas - the colour of their tie does not colour my opinion.

Here are some of the key ones that are important to me (I can discuss why I rate these as I do if you wish

National
Closing special schools and mainstreaming their students (National) - bad, very bad
Provisional tax reform for small business - good

Labour
Paid parental leave for either parent - good
Water royalty - bad, very bad

__________________► 9/11 was a terrorist attack by Islamic extremists; 12 Apollo astronauts really did walk on the Moon; JFK was assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald,who acted alone.
► Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed. - Jay Utah
► Heisenberg's Law - The weirdness of the Universe is inversely proportional to the scale at which you observe it, or not.

Far more both these products are exported. If they were to extend the levy to exports of water and milk (10c per litre on water, 1c per litre and 1c per kilogram on milk powder) there is at least another $500m that could be collected..

I really don't think it would work like that.
I don't know what the margins are on those products, but I doubt they're big, and they're in a competitive market, so I wouldn't be surprised that that would be pricing them out.

I really don't think it would work like that.
I don't know what the margins are on those products, but I doubt they're big, and they're in a competitive market, so I wouldn't be surprised that that would be pricing them out.

The margins on milk are large, on bottled water, they are huge

The price of a litre of milk fluctuates seasonally and annually according to climate, with a median price of about $2.50 per litre running between about $2.25 to to $2.75. Making that 1 litre median price $2.51 is not going to price out anything. I dohbt tyhat single person in NZ would dcide not to buy milk on the basis of it being 1c dearer than before,

Same goes with bottled water... a 500ml "Pump" costs around $2.90 at the supermarket. It would go up to $2.95. That will not deter buyers.

__________________► 9/11 was a terrorist attack by Islamic extremists; 12 Apollo astronauts really did walk on the Moon; JFK was assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald,who acted alone.
► Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed. - Jay Utah
► Heisenberg's Law - The weirdness of the Universe is inversely proportional to the scale at which you observe it, or not.

As an Australian, I'd be interested in some local perspectives on how the Barnaby Joyce matter is registering as an NZ election issue, if at all.

There has been a fair amount of coverage

More to do with politics here though.

There is an election coming up here and some are wondering why, while the opposition party (technically two parties, but it is a blurry line) are dumping leaders left, right and center, they seem to be confusing which country they are trying to bring the government down in.

I think nice, but dim Chris Hipkins, who asked the questions might just be a tad confused and didn't realise there is more than one person in the world named "Joyce". (We have senior govt MP called the same)

He is the opposition education spokesman as well, so pity the children if he gets in

__________________I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

I can try charter schools if National's appalling record in general education makes you at all uneasy.

Schools are in crisis. My own 8 yo attends a decile 10 school and they are currently 47 over the maximum roll of 700, and they're two teachers short. This is a school which is a natural first choice for teachers. It's only been open for ten years and up until 2015 they had queues of teachers crying out to work there.

With that school in that state I shudder to think what Manurewa East, Bairds Rd, et al are like right now.

But hey, property prices are up, so who gives a ****, amirite?

__________________The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

I can try charter schools if National's appalling record in general education makes you at all uneasy.

Schools are in crisis. My own 8 yo attends a decile 10 school and they are currently 47 over the maximum roll of 700, and they're two teachers short. This is a school which is a natural first choice for teachers. It's only been open for ten years and up until 2015 they had queues of teachers crying out to work there.

With that school in that state I shudder to think what Manurewa East, Bairds Rd, et al are like right now.

But hey, property prices are up, so who gives a ****, amirite?

Then move from Auckland

Not sure where you get me being a National supporter from?

As for Charter schools

Are these the schools Labour's senior MPs have threaten to resign over, if they are closed and who blatantly ignored their leader and went to fundraising functions for them?

The majority of which Labour are no longer going to close, as they have proven to be very successful, even though that was one of their most important policies and are now just going to change their names from "Charter Schools" to "Special character schools"?

__________________I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

I just have a natural tendency, when people spout ignorant and incorrect National Party propaganda and praise the National Party's achievements, to think that the person is a National voter.

Originally Posted by cullennz

Are these the schools Labour's seniorMaori MPs have threaten to resign over, if they are closed and who blatantly ignored their leader and went to fundraising functions for them?

FTFY

Just because Labour has now embraced the concept to keep the brown vote happy in no way makes them good or useful.

In fact, the mere existence of Maori support for them should tell you something. Could it be that being able to send Maori kids to Maori schools, funded to extremes by the taxpayer, where they are able to participate in a huge range of well-funded activities that no other schools can, means that Maori parents like them?

Surely you jest.

Quite funny, though, that the libertarian ACT brought a concept to government they never would have tried in a million years, only to have it turn out to be almost entirely positive discrimination by stealth.

Hey, good on the Maori parents signing up for them - it's the exact equivalent of a scholarship to Kings, with the real irony being that under-achievement is the pass mark, the exact opposite of Kings.

__________________The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

Ann Tolley was a complete disaster, and an arrogant bitch who would not listen to anyone. She is was the prime mover behind the attempts to close special schools such as Salisbury Girls here in Nelson, and I really grew tired of her bleating on about "wrap around services", which IMO was nothing but weasel-worded politicalspeak, and code for "we're going to drop those kids in the deep end of mainstream and whether they sink or swim its up to them." When the Principals Associaton refused to work with her, Jonky replaced her with Hekia Whatsername, another disaster for a different reason. She was totally ineffective; wouldn't know whether her arse was counter-bored or centre-punched.

This new one, Nikki Kaye looks a bit young for the job, although that might be a good thing... less political baggage maybe? She's only been there since May so the jury's out.

__________________► 9/11 was a terrorist attack by Islamic extremists; 12 Apollo astronauts really did walk on the Moon; JFK was assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald,who acted alone.
► Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed. - Jay Utah
► Heisenberg's Law - The weirdness of the Universe is inversely proportional to the scale at which you observe it, or not.

Atheist is clearly a Labour supporter. If you say anything to do with politics that he disagrees with, or if you disagree with any Labour policy, this automatically makes you National supporter, whether you are or not.

__________________► 9/11 was a terrorist attack by Islamic extremists; 12 Apollo astronauts really did walk on the Moon; JFK was assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald,who acted alone.
► Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed. - Jay Utah
► Heisenberg's Law - The weirdness of the Universe is inversely proportional to the scale at which you observe it, or not.

Atheist is clearly a Labour supporter. If you say anything to do with politics that he disagrees with, or if you disagree with any Labour policy, this automatically makes you National supporter, whether you are or not.

Lol

I noticed

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__________________I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Quite funny, though, that the libertarian ACT brought a concept to government they never would have tried in a million years, only to have it turn out to be almost entirely positive discrimination by stealth.

Hey, good on the Maori parents signing up for them - it's the exact equivalent of a scholarship to Kings, with the real irony being that under-achievement is the pass mark, the exact opposite of Kings.

That's fantastic Atheist

But the fact is it doesn't change Labour having closing all charter schools as one of it key policies, while it is utter bollocks and they are keeping them.

And they aren't all specialist Maori schools they won't shut, so your clutching at straws for excuses don't add up.

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__________________I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

And I don't know about NZ, but here in the UK for milk the supermarkets would quite quickly attempt to push that cost onto the producers, who here are struggling with prices as they stand anyway.

Big difference here is the tiny percentage of milk that is used as actual milk - the vast bulk of NZ milk gets turned into export products, so the price is reflective of the export value of the milk rather than how supermarket consumers see it.

The producers aren't in a lot of pain here. They had a dip for a year or so among a very long list of high-income years.

__________________The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

__________________I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

__________________I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

This is where you've lost the plot - I don't have an argument on charter schools other than they're not good use of education's limited dollars. I even explained why Labour has changed shoes on it. It's also a red herring.

I'm not a big fan of positive discrimination and don't believe we should have charter schools at all, but it's hardly an election issue, especially in light of the real problems in education.

This is where you've lost the plot - I don't have an argument on charter schools other than they're not good use of education's limited dollars. I even explained why Labour has changed shoes on it. It's also a red herring.

I'm not a big fan of positive discrimination and don't believe we should have charter schools at all, but it's hardly an election issue, especially in light of the real problems in education.

I think anyone who thinks moving houses would create a nearly 5% leap in failures is living in lala land

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__________________I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

If you think moving house means you have a 50% chance of passing you definitely are in lala land

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__________________I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

But I gather unsurprisingly you didn't understand the data. Funnily enough, if you take an average of -3 months off an average kid, which would be 36 months at primary, the truth is closer to 10%, but hey, it's just more facts you're trying to deny.

Yet you tried to deny you're a National voter.

Hmmm...

(at this stage your arse is on a plate)

Originally Posted by cullennz

If you think moving house means you have a 50% chance of passing you definitely are in lala land

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Does your SM-J500Y have a translate button? Because I have no idea what that's supposed to mean.
___________________________________

Meanwhile - and much more importantly - in a stunning display, Jacinda keeps climbing as the Greens keep falling, now well below the 5% threshold and minus a jillion percent chance of winning a seat.

Wow!

National support remains high, but eroding.

The smart money, getting out early. More will follow.

(God, imagine getting the dream quinella of annihilating the Greens at the same time as kicking this bunch of old-boys network filth out of the Beehive. A man can dream, but it's a dream with a lot more substance than only a couple of weeks ago.)

__________________The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.