[quote="rob-lost"]I generally side with the other sites AND with Writers Digest, that money flows toward the author, not the other way around.

So-called "vanity" publishers have a place, but they aren't for writers wanting to make this a profession.[/quote]

There is a reason they are called vanity presses.

Even a true self publisher will have to pay for some things unless they go the all free kindle route without an IABN.But a real self publisher picks the best services at a competitive price which they need and does not waste money on frills or things they can do themselves.

Too many naifs get conned with the vanities claiming to be self publishers, which is an oxymoron that should tip them off if they thought about what self means in self publishing.

Even a true self publisher will have to pay for some things unless they go the all free kindle route without an IABN.[/quote]

Kindle's self-publishing tools create that ISBN when the writer self-publishes through them. CreateSpace, the same.

Using a vanity press is NOT self-publishing. Such presses are money sinks.

Again, they have a place. But not for writers doing this as a profession.[quote="plughmann"]But a real self publisher picks the best services at a competitive price which they need and does not waste money on frills or things they can do themselves.

Too many naifs get conned with the vanities claiming to be self publishers, which is an oxymoron that should tip them off if they thought about what self means in self publishing.[/quote]A vanity press is about getting money from the would-be author. They sell services. And their services are unreliable precisely because selling is their business. I actually saw one giddy author who got their book from such a press. It was bound using one of those machines you can buy at Office Depot/OfficeMax or Staples.

For family genealogy publications, or similar specialty or one-time publications, okay.

For a living? I've never heard of a single author that "made it" using a vanity press.

Unfortunately when a writer goes with a vanity press they will be very excited and not listen to reason. They will even be argumentative to the point that they do not see spending money to get the book published as an issue. It's only after they don't realize the success they were hoping for that they start to realize their mistake. That mistake usually is in the area of $5k, $10k or in an article I read a couple of years ago where one unlucky writer wasted over $20k.

[quote="T.A.Rodgers"]Unfortunately when a writer goes with a vanity press they will be very excited and not listen to reason. They will even be argumentative to the point that they do not see spending money to get the book published as an issue. It's only after they don't realize the success they were hoping for that they start to realize their mistake. That mistake usually is in the area of $5k, $10k or in an article I read a couple of years ago where one unlucky writer wasted over $20k.[/quote]It's exciting stuff, getting that first copy in your hand, and the vanity presses are good at selling what they sell. So yeah, writers grab that dream and, like desperate lovers, hold on like their life depends on it.

[quote="T.A.Rodgers"]Unfortunately when a writer goes with a vanity press they will be very excited and not listen to reason. They will even be argumentative to the point that they do not see spending money to get the book published as an issue. It's only after they don't realize the success they were hoping for that they start to realize their mistake. That mistake usually is in the area of $5k, $10k or in an article I read a couple of years ago where one unlucky writer wasted over $20k.[/quote]

I saw an article in a business mag last year ( like Forbes but can't recall the real name, maybe Business Week, anyway like them) that was touting a new business that was charging 20.000usd for vanity press publishing of books. The author of the article thought that was a good deal. I have to think that most business folks would investigate alternatives first and reject it. Yet the magazine hyped them as a great deal at that outrageous price.