NYS ENCON Police encounter today.

This is a discussion on NYS ENCON Police encounter today. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by miklcolt45
Add another question:
If the jerk is a convicted felon, was he carrying?
And, if so, was he arrested?
Okay, I ...

If the jerk is a convicted felon, was he carrying?
And, if so, was he arrested?

Okay, I can't count. 2 questions...

The felon was carrying when I saw him Wednesday but he did not come out of the woods on Friday with the other guys. So no he was not arrested as of yet and until they witness him carrying he will be a free man.

BTW the next time you say another question I'm only going to answer one.

Worries

Originally Posted by Divebum47

I hate to be the devil's advocate, but just a couple of questions.

1) If you had been hurt, or worse, shot who would have borne the responsibility for all the bad stuff that goes along with that?
2) Did either have the power to deputize you?
3) Had an altercation led to you having to shoot someone, who would have borne the liability, gone to jail, had his weapon(s) impounded, been sued, etc?

While I applaud the attitudes of the officers, I somewhat question their actions.

Not criticizing, just sayin'.

That's the problem with the worldtoday: no one accepts responsibility for their own decisions.

My answers:
1) I would have borne my own responsibility for any harm. The officer did not order me to go. It was an option he offered.
2) It's my property. I have to right to be on and defend my property. I don't need to be deputized to be on it.
3) If all you think about is liability when carrying a firearm, perhaps you should reconsider carrying one.

That's the problem with the worldtoday: no one accepts responsibility for their own decisions.

My answers:
1) I would have borne my own responsibility for any harm. The officer did not order me to go. It was an option he offered.
2) It's my property. I have to right to be on and defend my property. I don't need to be deputized to be on it.
3) If all you think about is liability when carrying a firearm, perhaps you should reconsider carrying one.

Just my thoughts. To each his own.

I have to agree with you analysis, and your right nobody ordered me to do anything. I could have said no but thanks for the invite at any time.
They had several plans of attack to execute had one option failed or been eliminated somehow.

He was witnessed. You witnessed him. That's not relevant, according to the law? Seems pretty silly, if so.

I believe they have to catch him in possession before he can be arrested. Kinda like non LEO seeing someone in possession of drugs, we can report but the LEO's have to catch them in possession to make an arrest.

It does seem a little silly but it stops a lot of false accusations from people with an axe to grind.

All good questions Divebum and I wish I had good answers but fact is I don't. As I said I was rather surprised myself.

Please understand that my post was in no way intended to be critical. It's more of a concern than anything else.

For those of you who say, "I would have borne the responsibility myself", consider medical bills, the impact on your family, long term impacts on income, etc.

Yes, you have a "right" to protect your property, but if I don't like the way you do it, I can sue you. Even if I don't win, you lose - time, money, and perhaps even your property.

3) If all you think about is liability when carrying a firearm, perhaps you should reconsider carrying one.

I would argue that if you don't think about liability, you might not want to carry a firearm.

All I'm saying is that if you are willing to do the deed, you need to be willing to accept the consequences. Unfortunately, the law is not usually based upon logic and individual rights, expressed or implied. And in this litigious society, the consequences of your actions are not always in your own best interests. However they usually are in the best interests of the legal industry.

I applaud your willingness to support the Law Enforcement guys, Rottkeeper, and I think that's the right and just attitude. But what I think and what you think and what most people on this board think ain't worth a damn in a court of law. It's what the jury or judge thinks. That's unfortunate, not fair and really, against at least the spirit of the Constitution, but it is reality.

Please understand that my post was in no way intended to be critical. It's more of a concern than anything else.

I didn't take you as being critical so carry on.

For those of you who say, "I would have borne the responsibility myself", consider medical bills, the impact on your family, long term impacts on income, etc.

Yes, you have a "right" to protect your property, but if I don't like the way you do it, I can sue you. Even if I don't win, you lose - time, money, and perhaps even your property.

I would argue that if you don't think about liability, you might not want to carry a firearm.

All I'm saying is that if you are willing to do the deed, you need to be willing to accept the consequences. Unfortunately, the law is not usually based upon logic and individual rights, expressed or implied. And in this litigious society, the consequences of your actions are not always in your own best interests. However they usually are in the best interests of the legal industry.

I applaud your willingness to support the Law Enforcement guys, Rottkeeper, and I think that's the right and just attitude. But what I think and what you think and what most people on this board think ain't worth a damn in a court of law. It's what the jury or judge thinks. That's unfortunate, not fair and really, against at least the spirit of the Constitution, but it is reality.

I understand your concerns and agree, but given the situation I would be inclined to help LEO"s as much as I can.

And this was in NY?? They must be transplants from somewhere else....or their parents raised them right!

There are some of us, scattered amongst the anti's....North of NYC we start to run wild...more open space I guess....I've got friends on the Island that also keep the faith....NYC makes an unfortunate statement for all New Yorkers....

Back a few years ago when I had over 350 acres of property that was boardered by several other large wooded pieces of land I had reason to call in the law on not only poachers but unauthorized 3-4 wheelers (yup 3 wheelers - was a while ago) and snowmobilers.

Since I knew my property a heck of a lot better than the town police or ENCON I accompanied them. If I let them search alone they could have easily just wandered around for hours on the various logging roads which made up a maze of dead ends and obstacles. After hearing shots the PIA unauthorized hunters could have gutted and carried out the deer or bear while the law was getting tangled up in confusion.

I took both my Colt 1911 and Ruger Mini 14 along for the ride as I almost always did when walking my own property and was not questioned.

FWIW my land was posted (signs constantly torn down) and all anyone needed was to first ask me if they could hunt or use the trails. No problem as long as they knew that I had a house and a family on the property and followed the rules.

bosco

Last edited by boscobeans; December 12th, 2009 at 09:53 AM.
Reason: addition

but given the situation I would be inclined to help LEO"s as much as I can

I would agree. I wasn't there, so won't speculate, but while being willing to help to the extent of my abilities, I'd also be very aware during the entire process, of the risks involved. Again, I'm playing the devil's advocate.

I would agree. I wasn't there, so won't speculate, but while being willing to help to the extent of my abilities, I'd also be very aware during the entire process, of the risks involved. Again, I'm playing the devil's advocate.

No problem, good questions come from playing devil's advocate sometimes.