What Harriet Sherwood won’t report: Family of Palestinians who murdered Fogels taunt surviving children

“Settlers in Itamar were outraged Sunday morning after Palestinians from Awarta arrived in Itamar for their annual olive harvest in the settlement. According to the settlers, among the Palestinians who arrived in Itamar were the family members of brutally stabbed and murderedfive members of the Fogel family six months ago.

The settlers claimed that the Palestinians shouted “We’ll Fogel you” and drew their fingers across their necks indicating slaughter. [emphasis mine]

Dozens of women and children from Itamar protested against the move, including Tamar Fogel who lost her parents and three siblings in the heinous terror attack. “

Tamar Fogel, whose parents and three siblings were murdered by Palestinian terrorists, participates in protest

“After intervention from left-wing activists we were forced to allow the village residents to carry out their own harvest, but it is clear that with a little bit of thought and creativity we could have found a solution.” The settlers claim that this is an “absurd situation where the family of the killer harvests olives meters away from where he butchered an entire family.”

According to Itamar settlers, during last year’s harvest, Hakim Awad [one of the terrorists] entered the settlement and gathered information ahead of the massacre. “This is an abominable case of insensitivity,” they said, “In previous years yeshiva students harvested the olives for the Palestinians and transferred them to Awarta’s residents free of charge.

Chaim Fogel, father of the late Udi Fogel said in response that the incident was “an paralleled gall to bring this family to the harvest. It is gross insensitivity.”

Chaim Fogel’s words represent a profound understatement.

When you empathize more for the family of Palestinian terrorists who murdered Israeli civilians in cold blood than for the surviving children of the brutal attack, you cease to earn the mantle of “left-wing activist”.

You’re simply heartless, amoral, and unimaginably cruel.

But, as this story would be difficult for even Harriet Sherwood to weave into one of settler villainy, don’t expect to read about it in the Guardian.

“We’ll Fogel you”: This is the kind of remark that you remember for generations.

There is so much ugliness of soul captured there, such hatred, so little compassion for other human beings that anybody who reads it immediately understands that the Palestinians are champion haters The reasons for he continuing enmity and the decades without a peace process are made clear just in those three words.

Two points:
1) The murderer’s family members are guilty of nothing and are as free to harvest their olives as anyone else.
2) “The settlers claimed that the Palestinians shouted “We’ll Fogel you””. I’ll believe that when I see some independent evidence, certainly not on the settlers’ sayso. It all sounds just too convenient.

sencar your point No.1, how do you know that the “murderer’s family members are guilty of nothing”? Has there been a trial to determine whether they were complicit or not in the slaughter?
At the very least by turning up in Itamar they are guilty of action that could at the very best be described as grossly insensitive, crass and a provocation.
Your point No. 2, what would you regard as acceptable independent evidence?
Your remark, “all sounds just too convenient”.
Do you really think that the relatives and neighbours needed such a vivid reminder as the relatives of the murderers turning up in Itamar?
Are you aware of the type of memories or flashbacks their visit will have caused the relatives and neighbours to relive?
Your remark shows an ignorance of how serious crime affects the lives of the family and friends of the victims, it is despicable and if you have an ounce of decency you should withdraw it.

They are innocent, Gerald, as in ‘innocent until proven guilty’. They were harvesting their olives – an innocent enough occupation. You could say they were lucky to have any olive trees left given the settlers’ track record of destroying same.
The settlers have a vested interest in presenting events in as negative a light as possible, so I don’t take their reports at face value. I’d accept evidence from any reasonably neutral observer – even, at a pinch, a member of the IDF or police.

“The settlers have a vested interest in presenting events in as negative a light as possible…”

And the Palestinian have a vested interested of portraying events as rosy?
Heck you just proven my first point.
I believe you are biased and as such an independent observer, in your eyes, would have preferably be arriving from one of the countries which Israel does not have foreign relations with.
i do not believe you when you state that an IDF or Israeli Police word would be suffecient to you unless it incrimnates the Israeli side.

It’s not likely is it sencar that they would have informed on their children to the Israeli police who were investigating the Itamar murders?

And were you there, sencar, or are you taking as true the descriptions you get from others? If so, tell us how you KNOW that they were lucky to have any olive trees left – you know the sort of thing, from disinterested sites with links and more than one if possible.

The IDF were escorting the harvesters to protect them from settler attack, so could have confirmed the “We’ll Fogel you” claim; they didn’t. Just google ‘olive trees settlers’ to find hundreds of stories of settler attacks on farmers and destruction of trees – some of them from sources even you might accept as neutral and reliable.

Gerald, don’t hold your breath. Sencar not only does not have an ounce of decency, he has pounds of its opposite. He is exactly the sort of person who thinks that taunting a child with the violent deaths of her family is funny. He is sick and sickening. He enters these boards only to slime them.

Regardless of whether the family was complicit in the murder of the Fogels can you really not see that it would have been an acknowledgement of humanity and an indication of sensitivity and humanity and creature feeling for the grief of Itamar for them NOT to go anywhere near it? How can you accept so easily that they should be absolved from behaving like every other decent human being? Would you have gone there as defiantly had your family member been found guilty of such slaughter? If so, why? If not, why not?

It seems to me that you are missing the obvious here, wilfully or otherwise, and if otherwise then I really am concerned for your own humanity; because the antics of these excuse for humans illustrate the way in which they view Israeli Jews. They objectify them and they want to hurt them. In other words they behave towards them as typically ill-educated thugs do, and the more so because their enslavement to the Islamic death cult encourages them to do so.

There are no independent sources on this conflict. None. Everyone is biased to one of the two sides. I know, because I have seen how even those who started out from the point of “neutral, unbiased, objective investigation” (“Give me the facts. Just the facts”) have very quickly moved into one of the poles. Such is the magic of this conflict of all conflict, that it never leaves anyone sitting on the fence regarding it, except possibly those who have declared total apathy. Even the very name of the conflict is a minefield of bias (what’s the Israel–Palestine Conflict to you is the Jewish–Arab Conflict as far as I’m concerned).

Assuming (very recklessly, I must say) that your request for independent evidence is made in sincerity, I must tell you the harsh truth: You ask for the impossible.

“Settlers block Palestinians from harvesting own crop”
Right-wing, extremist settlers on the illegally occupied West Bank today attempted to stop Palestinian farmers from harvesting the olives their families have grown for generations.

Some of the Palestinian villagers have relatives languishing in Israeli gaols, and even they were confronted by illegal settlers, some of whose fabricated reports led to that imprisonment, following a protest earlier this year against the expansionist Israeli land-grab. The settlers, including a 12-year-old girl who shouted at the farmers with a twisted expression of hatred, demanded that they should not be allowed to harvest their own crops. “Why should they be allowed to intrude on our settlement?” One automatic rifle-wielding extremist asked. He suggested that ultra-religious Jewish “students” should be allowed to take the olives from the trees, tended by the local villagers since time imemorial, instead.

There you go, Harriet. Don’t worry about paying me – it is my pleasure to contiribute to your incessant stream of hatred and apologetics for terrorism.

And Beslan for me. Not to minimize the atrocity of 9/11, but Beslan was cataclysmic because it was an up, close and personal rape and massacre of schoolchildren by the jihadists.

To top it all, the next year I was able to compare the rioting and rampaging of Muslims worldwide in the face of a few line-drawings, with the deafening silence they had exhibited regarding Beslan. From then onward, I’ve been convinced that truly moderate Muslims are an aberration in a sea of shariah and jihad supporters, and not the other way round as the Marxist PC Police wants everyone to believe.

I didn’t deny their existence. I said they were a minority. A drop in the ocean.

My attitude carries the risk of false negatives. The other, which says most of them are like your friend Ella, carries the risk of false positives. The wages of a false positive can easily be life and limb. If the wages of a false negative is being called a bigot or something like that, then there’s no question in my mind as to where the scales are tipped.

The point when I ceased to believe that Islam is capable of peaceful coexistence with others and, worse, has little compunction about behaving with the utmost cruelty (except Muslims would say that they were emulating their mad prophet), was when I saw video of the Hamas anniversary parade in Gaza, during which a crowd of thousands laughed and cheered when a Hamasnik dressed up as Gilad Shalit wept and wailed for his mother.

This crowing and rejoicing over the distress and injuries of poor Gilad Shalit as well as their deliberately putting their civilian population in danger make these people below the dregs of humanity, and below the bottom rung on the ladder of evolution..

My heart ached for Shalit’s parents, and after that I began to despise them and the belief system which made that possible, and to learn more about it on the basis of “know thine enemy”. I have witnessed little since to make me change my mind about Islam. It is a foul belief system which enslaves those it captures and robs them of hope and free will.

[…] for freedom, democracy and other humanitarian good stuff. The surviving family members deserve to be taunted. And for all we know, the heroes who dealt with them did not urinate on their corpses as would have […]

[…] for freedom, democracy and other humanitarian good stuff. The surviving family members deserve to be taunted. And for all we know, the heroes who dealt with them did not urinate on their corpses as would have […]

[…] for freedom, democracy and other humanitarian good stuff. The surviving family members deserve to be taunted. And for all we know, the heroes who dealt with them did not urinate on their corpses as would have […]