I came here to ask because I am fascinated with your building, the culture you are developing, and the vision of the architects, would like your thoughts on how the construction of this building helps create an atmosphere and energy that is 2nd to none, and do you see a direct correlation between that construction and the energy produced from it.?

This has been a debate of mine for years in dolphin land, as you know we came from a place similar to your in terms of intimidation, intimacy, and proximity of the seats relative to the field, the orange bowl..The building that we are in now is the complete opposite of intimacy, atmospheric, and intimidation, my theory is that because the stands in our stadium are the farthest from the field in the NFL, that its creating a disconnect between fanbase and team..

For decades now every year, the same questions arise about our team at home, why is there no emotion, no spirit, no passion when our team plays at home, why are we a better road team, why did we go 1 and twelve at home and posted a winning record on the road during that same time..

Now I completely conceptualize that it takes a team you want to root for, and a successful one at that, but I feel like the advantage of playing in a building that had a built in plan to intimidate, a conscious effort to put the fans ON TOP of the field, is really affecting your franchise, your team, and your culture in a hugely positive way.

My theory and direct question comes down to, are your fans getting engaged because of the building, and how much more do you have an advantage against a building that creates a spectator type viewership because of the distance involved between players and fans ?..and, does your building and the atmosphere it can create, make tangibles differences in the performance of your players, the opponent, and your team culture?

Thanks again..we'll see you at our neutral site in a week..

Last edited by Djphinfan on Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

Our DE's get off the snap quicker than opposing OL players, The defense just really feeds off the energy the fans provide. Offense seems to be that way too.

people I debate on this topic would merely say to you that if a pro athlete needs to motivated by fans, there is something wrong with the athlete, almost a lack of understanding that the game is emotional, and that home crowd intensity can affect a players performance.

Most of us here are aware, and you may be as well, The C-Link was designed specifically to funnel noise downward towards the field. I'm sure Paul Allen and Co. had seen what an advantage playing in the old indoor Kingdome was and wanted as much of that type of noise advantage as possible in the new outdoor stadium when it was built. Architects did a fine job of creating the new stadium in such a fashion as most NFL fans are aware of considering the number of false start penalties opposing teams suffer through each year there.

As to your direct question, yes I do believe by putting the fans "on top" of the field it helps create a high excitement atmosphere and it does indeed affect the players and correspondingly the entire franchise. None the less man, if the team sucks, it's not going to matter because the energy level will not be high enough to have any affect on the players on the field (see the Jim Mora coached team of 4 years ago here). So first and foremost IMO, the team must be competitive in order to start the "snowball" rolling. But yeah, after that I think our stadium's configuration and the fact that the fans have an effect on opposing teams with the noise they generate can and has added to some of the success of the franchise. I can tell you from experience, when it's REALLY loud in the building, it's one of the loudest experiences I've ever had and I've been to a LOT of rock concerts over the last 40 years. The NFC Championship game of '06 was probably the most noise I have ever heard. I sat at the closed end (south) of the facility and it was so loud it was like it was almost creating wind. Simply unreal.

There's a lot of folks around here that can't explain why our players keep coming out flat and uninspired, especially yesterday, worst crowd ever, most of them think I'm crazy for bringing the building into the equation.

Would it be accurate in saying that your building is its own entity for sales, and can draw fans just to experience that type of atmosphere?

Djphinfan wrote:There's a lot of folks around here that can't explain why our players keep coming out flat and uninspired, especially yesterday, worst crowd ever, most of them think I'm crazy for bringing the building into the equation.

Would it be accurate in saying that your building is its own entity for sales, and can draw fans just to experience that type of atmosphere?

Maybe for a year or two but eventually a franchise have to have some level of consistent success to maintain an involved, attending and excited fanbase. Example: The Seattle Mariners. They don't draw shit anymore even with a great facility.

hawksfansinceday1 wrote:Most of us here are aware, and you may be as well, The C-Link was designed specifically to funnel noise downward towards the field. I'm sure Paul Allen and Co. had seen what an advantage playing in the old indoor Kingdome was and wanted as much of that type of noise advantage as possible in the new outdoor stadium when it was built. Architects did a fine job of creating the new stadium in such a fashion as most NFL fans are aware of considering the number of false start penalties opposing teams suffer through each year there.

The design for Clink was taken from Husky Stadium. The pit style stadium with the overhanging roof to channel the noise onto the field. People forget how loud Husky Stadium really is when 70,000+ are screaming. Been a long time since UW has been good enough to pack that place.

hawksfansinceday1 wrote:Most of us here are aware, and you may be as well, The C-Link was designed specifically to funnel noise downward towards the field. I'm sure Paul Allen and Co. had seen what an advantage playing in the old indoor Kingdome was and wanted as much of that type of noise advantage as possible in the new outdoor stadium when it was built. Architects did a fine job of creating the new stadium in such a fashion as most NFL fans are aware of considering the number of false start penalties opposing teams suffer through each year there.

As to your direct question, yes I do believe by putting the fans "on top" of the field it helps create a high excitement atmosphere and it does indeed affect the players and correspondingly the entire franchise. None the less man, if the team sucks, it's not going to matter because the energy level will not be high enough to have any affect on the players on the field (see the Jim Mora coached team of 4 years ago here). So first and foremost IMO, the team must be competitive in order to start the "snowball" rolling. But yeah, after that I think our stadium's configuration and the fact that the fans have an effect on opposing teams with the noise they generate can and has added to some of the success of the franchise. I can tell you from experience, when it's REALLY loud in the building, it's one of the loudest experiences I've ever had and I've been to a LOT of rock concerts over the last 40 years. The NFC Championship game of '06 was probably the most noise I have ever heard. I sat at the closed end (south) of the facility and it was so loud it was like it was almost creating wind. Simply unreal.

I only had my assumptions that it was built with noise and energy into the spec, is there some articles on that genius vision, because imo, that's exactly what it is..What's utterly amazing to me, is that owners are putting up billion dollar buildings and are not doing the same..They're not seeing the monetary or team advantages that your building is creating.

I think it's one of the gravest mistakes going on in this league..

If your gonna build one, then build it to engage the fan into the game, put them on top of the field, so they feel like they can impact the game, and the players can actually feel the energy from the fans.. im not even adding the advantages you can get from a football perspective..false starts, jumpin the snap count, creating pressure onto the opponent.

If I'm a new owner, and I want a new building,acoustics, intimacy and intimidation are the first ingredients, because that's how you can connect a team to its fanbase, and make a lot of money doing so..am I off here?

As a season ticket holder while the team was still in the King Dome I can say that the fans felt that they were intimate with he game and team. It seemed as though every fan in that building was close to the action and just as important the team. There literally was not a bad seat in the house. The climb to the upper reaches was steep but that is what made even the nosebleed seats seem close. And the noise we could generate was tremendous. My wife would bring ear plugs because it would actually hurt her ears.

The reason I talked about the old Kingdom was because despite all it's other faults these were it greatest strengths and the planners and designers were tasked by Mr. Allen to build in those same qualities in an open air stadium. He understands how paramount the fan experience is and what made it happen. There is no greater feeling for a fan than knowing they can affect the game.

The Clink has it all.

" Remember the men and women in uniform that have signed that blank check for us."

Djphinfan wrote:There's a lot of folks around here that can't explain why our players keep coming out flat and uninspired, especially yesterday, worst crowd ever, most of them think I'm crazy for bringing the building into the equation.

Would it be accurate in saying that your building is its own entity for sales, and can draw fans just to experience that type of atmosphere?

Maybe for a year or two but eventually a franchise have to have some level of consistent success to maintain an involved, attending and excited fanbase. Example: The Seattle Mariners. They don't draw shit anymore even with a great facility.

It's a very disturbing cycle for us, because in our situation, because of how bad the building was constructed, even if we're good, the players are not going to experience anything close to what your team does, simple logistics, and I'm trying to figure out how that can have an affect on a teams spirit and passion, and poor attendance.

hawksfansinceday1 wrote:Most of us here are aware, and you may be as well, The C-Link was designed specifically to funnel noise downward towards the field. I'm sure Paul Allen and Co. had seen what an advantage playing in the old indoor Kingdome was and wanted as much of that type of noise advantage as possible in the new outdoor stadium when it was built. Architects did a fine job of creating the new stadium in such a fashion as most NFL fans are aware of considering the number of false start penalties opposing teams suffer through each year there.

The design for Clink was taken from Husky Stadium. The pit style stadium with the overhanging roof to channel the noise onto the field. People forget how loud Husky Stadium really is when 70,000+ are screaming. Been a long time since UW has been good enough to pack that place.

v1rotv2 wrote:As a season ticket holder while the team was still in the King Dome I can say that the fans felt that they were intimate with he game and team. It seemed as though every fan in that building was close to the action and just as important the team. There literally was not a bad seat in the house. The climb to the upper reaches was steep but that is what made even the nosebleed seats seem close. And the noise we could generate was tremendous. My wife would bring ear plugs because it would actually hurt her ears.

The reason I talked about the old Kingdom was because despite all it's other faults these were it greatest strengths and the planners and designers were tasked by Mr. Allen to build in those same qualities in an open air stadium. He understands how paramount the fan experience is and what made it happen. There is no greater feeling for a fan than knowing they can affect the game.

The Clink has it all.

that is just awesome, I can't seem to find any articles on this specific vision by Allen..?

Welcome to .NET. I think you're spot on with a lot of your observations. Obviously a solid team is necessary to finish creating a terrifying place to play, but the stadium and ownership has a lot to do with it. I think much of your problem in Miami is inherited from the culture of the town. Laid back, casual, beach bum attitudes don't go well with smashmouth football.

That can be overcome, though. Seattle is a pretty laid back, artsy-fartsy town, and like you pointed out, we've done pretty well in transforming latte-sippers into screaming lunatics on game day. I think Miami's problem was exacerbated by ownership, and specifically the Jimmy Buffett effect. Turning the stadium into a Margaritaville partyland doesn't work. Parrotheads are not rabid, fanatical, screaming fans that aid so much in creating home field advantage. Change that, and you change your fortune.

Your team, with the extreme distance from a lot of the league (not nearly what Seattle's is, but still...), coupled with a hot, screaming swamp full of rabid fans, would go a long way to establishing a bad, bad place for opposing teams to play. Right now, it's "hey, Miami beach!"

World Champion Seattle Seahawks football. It's an addiction, and there is no cure.Les Norton - gone but never forgotten. Rest in blue and green peace, my friend.

Seahawk Sailor wrote:Welcome to .NET. I think you're spot on with a lot of your observations. Obviously a solid team is necessary to finish creating a terrifying place to play, but the stadium and ownership has a lot to do with it. I think much of your problem in Miami is inherited from the culture of the town. Laid back, casual, beach bum attitudes don't go well with smashmouth football.

That can be overcome, though. Seattle is a pretty laid back, artsy-fartsy town, and like you pointed out, we've done pretty well in transforming latte-sippers into screaming lunatics on game day. I think Miami's problem was exacerbated by ownership, and specifically the Jimmy Buffett effect. Turning the stadium into a Margaritaville partyland doesn't work. Parrotheads are not rabid, fanatical, screaming fans that aid so much in creating home field advantage. Change that, and you change your fortune.

Your team, with the extreme distance from a lot of the league (not nearly what Seattle's is, but still...), coupled with a hot, screaming swamp full of rabid fans, would go a long way to establishing a bad, bad place for opposing teams to play. Right now, it's "hey, Miami beach!"

thanks man..

This is what usually happens in this conversation, you forget the building when discussing the changes..I am aware of the fan that lives in Seattle, laid back, cool, artsy like you said, but, the building is what made the transformation possible..that cannot happen where we play..

The old Kingdome was pretty funky, seating was irregular and much of the seating was not close to the field (as it was designed for dual use - baseball and football). However, the crowd in the Kingdome was rocking every week and the intimacy and intensity of the crowd was just as high as it is today in the Clink.

And if you ever go to Candlestick Park, you'll see the same thing. The design of that stadium is just bizarre, as it was primarily intended to be a baseball diamond. I've been there for games, and it is one of the worst seating designs for football that I've ever seen. In most of the stadium, the crowd is really far away from the field and visibility is pretty poor compared to other stadiums. However, that place is always packed and really intense.

So I'm not sure if the two could be factually correlated. It's an interesting theory but doesn't stand up well when you start doing a comparative analysis.

In my opinion the building plays a part in the atmosphere, but it's just a part. We have a tradition here with the 12th man that goes back way before this stadium was built. This fan base was very hungry for pro football from the start and that transformed itself to rowdiness during games. A lot of people carried over that college atmosphere from the UW to the Kingdome. In 1984 the team retired the number 12 in recognition of the fans and their support. Also around the same time the NFL tried to but noise rules in place because of us.

Fast forward to the Clink and the tradition was continued, but in a more intimate building. The team itself does a great job riling up the crowd with some great pregame rituals. So much so that by kick off, the fans are at a fever pitch. During the games the team does a number of things to keep the fans engaged, like keeping a total of false starts we have a caused and celebrating each new one. All these play a part, but in the end I feel its about passion for the team, a passion the players feel and is reciprocated.

Metallica summed it up best in the song Battery. It starts "Lashing out the action, Returning the reaction, Weak are ripped and torn away"

While this situation is not what the song is about, it perfect describes the exchange of energy between the crowd and the team.

HansGruber wrote:It's an interesting theory. However, I see a few problems with it.

The old Kingdome was pretty funky, seating was irregular and much of the seating was not close to the field (as it was designed for dual use - baseball and football). However, the crowd in the Kingdome was rocking every week and the intimacy and intensity of the crowd was just as high as it is today in the Clink.

And if you ever go to Candlestick Park, you'll see the same thing. The design of that stadium is just bizarre, as it was primarily intended to be a baseball diamond. I've been there for games, and it is one of the worst seating designs for football that I've ever seen. In most of the stadium, the crowd is really far away from the field and visibility is pretty poor compared to other stadiums. However, that place is always packed and really intense.

So I'm not sure if the two could be factually correlated. It's an interesting theory but doesn't stand up well when you start doing a comparative analysis.

I think it's relative, if you saw it first hand, ( ours and yours together) and then compare the two, the discrepency could become clear, and start to see tangible disadvantages.

Candlestick stands are a lot closer than ours, it might be a weird design, but bottom line, when your a certain distance from the action, you are unengaged, and any effort to become engaged is an exercise in futility..

The ravens stadium is like your in terms of proximity of the field in relation to the stands..there's no question that team plays better at home, 22 and 0 over the last three years..

A question for you..do you feel that your fans show up on time in the beginning of the game because they don't want to miss the energy?

I've never been in the Tampa stadium but have been by it lots of times visiting our daughter when she lived there.

For those who haven't seen it, its really flat compared to Seahawks Stadium and others that feature noisey fans.

Easy to see why the fans perhaps feel a bit disconnected from the action. Wasn't it called the Big Sombrero in the past? That's what it looks like, a big hat with pretty flat rings around it. Most fans are actually looking across the teams rather than down on the action. That would make a big difference to me.

Blitzfan wrote:In my opinion the building plays a part in the atmosphere, but it's just a part. We have a tradition here with the 12th man that goes back way before this stadium was built. This fan base was very hungry for pro football from the start and that transformed itself to rowdiness during games. A lot of people carried over that college atmosphere from the UW to the Kingdome. In 1984 the team retired the number 12 in recognition of the fans and their support. Also around the same time the NFL tried to but noise rules in place because of us.

Fast forward to the Clink and the tradition was continued, but in a more intimate building. The team itself does a great job riling up the crowd with some great pregame rituals. So much so that by kick off, the fans are at a fever pitch. During the games the team does a number of things to keep the fans engaged, like keeping a total of false starts we have a caused and celebrating each new one. All these play a part, but in the end I feel its about passion for the team, a passion the players feel and is reciprocated.

Metallica summed it up best in the song Battery. It starts "Lashing out the action, Returning the reaction, Weak are ripped and torn away"

While this situation is not what the song is about, it perfect describes the exchange of energy between the crowd and the team.

I agree with that to an extent, good info, at some point though I feel like the actual closeness in proximity has a lot to do with the energy that can be created, the advantages, and trickle down affect that come with it.

Djphinfan wrote: A question for you..do you feel that your fans show up on time in the beginning of the game because they don't want to miss the energy?

Yes and no.

The stands are actually pretty empty right up until kickoff. It's really noticeable, having lived in other cities and attended games in other stadiums. The Seattle crowd tends to show up at the last minute, but are pretty intense from the get-go.

I've also noticed that outside of the "12" flag raising ceremony, the crowd intensity in Seattle starts at about 75% and works its way up to 100% during the first few drives. So it's not like it starts intense and then calms down a bit. It's generally the other way around. Starts intense, but then gets really insane a few drives into the game.

There is an interesting point as to the "energy" of the building. It was built to channel noise, that's true, but when it gets truly loud there, you can actually feel the floor vibrate. So, maybe we feed off of that energy that the building creates.

After the Marshawn Lynch run in the playoffs 2 years ago, we actually registered seismic activity. THat also lends to the theory that the building, once engaged by the fans, creates it's own energy.

Damn, that almost sounds supernatural. You'd really have to experience it to believe it.

v1rotv2 wrote:As a season ticket holder while the team was still in the King Dome I can say that the fans felt that they were intimate with he game and team. It seemed as though every fan in that building was close to the action and just as important the team. There literally was not a bad seat in the house. The climb to the upper reaches was steep but that is what made even the nosebleed seats seem close. And the noise we could generate was tremendous. My wife would bring ear plugs because it would actually hurt her ears.

The reason I talked about the old Kingdom was because despite all it's other faults these were it greatest strengths and the planners and designers were tasked by Mr. Allen to build in those same qualities in an open air stadium. He understands how paramount the fan experience is and what made it happen. There is no greater feeling for a fan than knowing they can affect the game.

The Clink has it all.

that is just awesome, I can't seem to find any articles on this specific vision by Allen..?

I don't know if you have the capability to get recorded interviews from the time but there were several on camera interviews with the folks involved. Getting financing for the stadium was a big deal at the time and there was plenty of media coverage.

" Remember the men and women in uniform that have signed that blank check for us."

The effect starts when you get close to the stadium and notice streets named for former greats and you occasionally hear seahawks chants starting outsideThey have the usual pregame kids dash for the prize of some kind and then the opposing team gets on the field to many boos and even before they are all out the music starts, the sirens go off and the announcer introduces the team , they run out onto the field amidst a volley of fireworks and then different music starts and they give you a little back story of the 12th man flagraiser this week and then they raise the flag who is accompanied by our own seahawks drum core playing behind himInside the stadium is very nice and they display every high school football helmet in the state along with tons of sehawk related items from the pastThe view from most seats isn't just good they are down right sweetThere are so many more things to like about this place it truly is a you have to see it for yourself atmosphere

Our DE's get off the snap quicker than opposing OL players, The defense just really feeds off the energy the fans provide. Offense seems to be that way too.

people I debate on this topic would merely say to you that if a pro athlete needs to motivated by fans, there is something wrong with the athlete, almost a lack of understanding that the game is emotional, and that home crowd intensity can affect a players performance.

Paul Allen is a Seahawks fan, and with that mindset wants to INCLUDE the fans in Seattle in the mix.You can't expect fans to be pushed out of the equation, and expect them to be enthusiastic about buying tickets, when there's a disconnect between the Fans and the players.

I'm going to go in a different direction with this, Djphinfan...I don't think it has much to do with the Clink at all. Our 2008 and 2009 seasons proved that the energy of our home stadium was powerless to help an old, weak, poorly coached team. The Seahawks weren't talented, weren't gelling, weren't winning, and most importantly had no discernible direction. We were getting routinely beat at home, all the time, by quarterbacks who have since turned out to be terrible.

It was just an awful situation, and it came down to talent and coaching. The stadium didn't help at all. A few years of it, and I'm sure our attendance would be dropping like yours is.

The attitude you see on this current Seahawks team, I'd ascribe it more to these things than the Clink:

1. A lot of the intensity that this team has projects from Pete Carroll himself. He's the youngest 60-year-old I've ever seen, leads by example, practices what he preaches, constantly pumped up. For all the rah-rah grief that he gets, I'll bet the players love to score just to see him celebrate on the sidelines.

2. There's accountability in this organization that keeps everyone on their toes. Pete Carroll and GM John Schneider are constantly shuffling the roster and implicitly threatening jobs by doing so. This is a stone-cold front office that has no problem putting people out to pasture. We've had expensive free agents cut (and their cap hits swallowed), first-round picks displaced in favor of off-the-street guys, zero consideration given for cost, seniority, or incumbency. This creates maximum effort and week-to-week awareness from the players.

3. Many of this team's draftees have chips on their shoulders. Our current secondary mostly went under-drafted (vastly so in the case of Richard Sherman), our QB gets dismissed by everyone for being too short, our running back and fullback got tossed aside by their old teams, and in the end you've got a ton of guys who feel that they have something to prove to the league. They play hard to prove it.

4. We've won. I hate to say it, but the best way to get a roster AND a fan base interested is to start winning. Pete Carroll came in and immediately won some games that nobody expected them to win - the San Diego and Chicago games in 2010, the Saints playoff win of course, beating the Giants on the road in 2011 (before they won the Super Bowl), and this year squeaking out wins over some high-flying passing offenses. It got the team believing in itself and its ability to beat the odds.

"We don't even need your stupid a-- that much. We can win Super Bowls with retired Kerry f------- Collins right now, and you want to be the highest paid player of all-time? F--- you." - Tical21 to Russell Wilson, 6/30/15

Well first of all, there is a pretty massive demographic/culture difference between Seattle and Miami. I won't risk sounding like Glenn Beck by going into the details, but really about the only thing Seattle and Miami have in common is how they vote.

Another difference is that up here we suffer from East coast bias- something Miami doesn't have to worry about. We are kind of an introverted society up here so I think that naturally leads to some insecurity. I don't know if that explains the origins of the 12thman and the intense pride Seahawks fans feel for impacting a game, but that's my theory. We want to show the world that WE are the most passionate fans on the planet and we love knowing that our efforts have an impact on the outcomes of games. We truly do feel like we are more than fans- we are a part of our football team.

The 12thman thing goes back to the 80's kingdome days. Our stadium plays a role, but I'd say it's mostly culture more than the stadium. No offense, but Miami is kind of infamous for being laissez-faire as a fan base. They are relaxed, hands off. Your baseball team is famous for having the most indifferent fan base in the majors- despite two recent championships. The dolphins aren't as bad, but it's a similarly relaxed atmosphere.

The Kingdome and Seahawks Stadium were built to be loud, but it's the culture that is responsible for the impact. Without the culture, our stadium wouldn't be any louder than most other stadiums.

As far as getting that kind of culture shift in Miami, that's tough. Up here in the NW, we are an odd bunch, and I think that kind of fuels right into the 12thman idea. There aren't a lot of other places I could see a 12thman type culture popping up. Maybe Minnesota since they have a dome, an odd, introverted fanbase with very similar demographics, a hunger to win a championship stemming from a history of losing (mostly), and poor winter weather. Arizona seems like 12thman-lite since they got their new stadium. It's hard to create though. It takes the right mixture of elements.

Here's the deal.If we played in a garbage can, we would blow the roof off of it.It doesn't matter if the Seahawks play in The Kingdome (where #12 became famous-noise rule instituted), Husky Stadium, or The Clink.We are passionate about our team, even though we have never won it all.All of this comes from what is inside of us. It is who we are. It is what we believe.

Hey now...Not all hawk fans are from the PNW. Just sayin....Ok, I will admit that I became a Hawk fan because I lived in WA back in 77-84 but now I live out east. In fact, I was quite surprised at the Hawk fans that were at the Lions game I attended. It was sweet.

The old Kingdome was cheap concrete POS - it was a noisy effin football venue just by accident - when they built the new one they made sure to engineer in crowd noise to replace what we were losing in the Kingdome - it sure worked!

According to James Poulson, architect for the firm that designed C-Link, "We didn't go into it with the intention of making it a loud stadium. The things that we did for weather protection, for sight lines, and getting fans closer to the action, contributed to bouncing sound back down to the field."

Getting the fans closer to the action was actually the only option they had. When the decision was made to build the new stadium on the site of the King Dome, it meant they had to fit the new stadium into the same space the old one occupied, which was surrounded by buildings and other infrastructure. C-link has one of the smallest stadium footprints (if not the smallest) in the entire NFL. It simply wasn't possible to build a sprawling stadium park -- that option didn't exist. So in order to fit ~67,000 fans into the new stadium, they basically had to stack them in there.

The main reason the atmosphere at C-Link is likely never to be recaptured anywhere else, besides the lack of hyper-caffeinated 12th Men, is the fact that nobody is ever going to build an NFL stadium that small again. You see the effect of that in Miami. Also at Fed-Ex Field, also in Jerry's Jungle-gym -- 90K-100K people in the stands, that are not as loud as the 67K at C-link, because they are a lot more spread out in the huge seating capacity demanded in newer bigger stadiums.

(edited = typo)

Last edited by BlueTalon on Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

49ers webzone: Win or lose, i hope you injure Sherman. Like a serious career ending injury. I don't want him to get paid.49ers webzone: noise should not be the overwhelming reason a team is favored. they need to spray noise-damping foam onto the ceiling of that place.

I will go with most of the others and say that it takes a mixture of things to generate the excitement and energy at the Clink.

Montanahawk is dead on in regards to that place being flat when a team is underperforming. I would say 2008 to games in 2010, there was an underwhelming amount of energy and noise created at Seahawks Stadium. I would say this happened because our team was not winning. Granted, there were still a large number of boisterous fans, the overall excitement level wasn't there. I recall going to the game in 2010 vs. KC and, while being boozed up with the buddies and screaming our heads off, there was not the electricity in the air like going to games in 05-06.

Seattle, specifically at the Clink, has been blessed with two teams that have been overall pretty successful since they have started playing there. It is undeniable that the the atmosphere at Sounders games is also amazing. Every Sounders game that I have gone to has had an energy I didn't know was possible in the USA.

I think the success of the team at the time, the personality of the team (as someone said, very underdog-ish/chip on the shoulder type), the die-hard fans and the design of the stadium all play a part.

Hawks46 wrote:There is an interesting point as to the "energy" of the building. It was built to channel noise, that's true, but when it gets truly loud there, you can actually feel the floor vibrate. So, maybe we feed off of that energy that the building creates.

After the Marshawn Lynch run in the playoffs 2 years ago, we actually registered seismic activity. THat also lends to the theory that the building, once engaged by the fans, creates it's own energy.

Damn, that almost sounds supernatural. You'd really have to experience it to believe it.

Sir, have you ever been to the orange bowl??...58 strait happened there under my watch, I know exactly what your talking about, and when you compare to what we had, what you have today, maybe you can understand this theory even more..my team plays on a neutral field each time were home..that's got to account for something, and imo, it counts for more than people will open their minds too, and all of it, is negative.

twelfman wrote:The effect starts when you get close to the stadium and notice streets named for former greats and you occasionally hear seahawks chants starting outsideThey have the usual pregame kids dash for the prize of some kind and then the opposing team gets on the field to many boos and even before they are all out the music starts, the sirens go off and the announcer introduces the team , they run out onto the field amidst a volley of fireworks and then different music starts and they give you a little back story of the 12th man flagraiser this week and then they raise the flag who is accompanied by our own seahawks drum core playing behind himInside the stadium is very nice and they display every high school football helmet in the state along with tons of sehawk related items from the pastThe view from most seats isn't just good they are down right sweetThere are so many more things to like about this place it truly is a you have to see it for yourself atmosphere

This is just painful for me to read..

That's sounds like how it's supposed to be..

I'm just completely blown away that someone other than myself sees the vision of what a building can do for a culture..

Now, moving forward, progressively, I would like for my city to build a new stadium for the team, and take what you all have, and really get into the science of creating the most intimidating home field advantage as money can buy..

I think it would be an incredible investment opportunity for a billionaire, I think it would become its own must see type of experiences..

I think you all are the leaders of proving this theory right, I think you all should have ideas about making it even better, market those ideas, and capitalize on it..

You all do understand then when you played on Monday nite footbal earlier this year, the country did'nt just tune in to watch your team, we tuned in because of 12th man, the energy that you all can create, we all wanted to live vicariously thru it, how loud and impactful can you really get is what we really want to see...

And speaking from an expert on the matter ( orange bowl ) I think you all need to take it to another level, and really capitolize on the fame.

The Phins are trying to cater to the box seat crowd, and the average fan is the casualty.Seattle talks up the 12. retires a number for the 12. The coach begs the 12 to be loud, players try to get the 12 involved, and they let the crowd know that when a false start happens, it was them who did it.

The other stuff all matters, but that is the real reason the fans are loud in Seattle.

MontanaHawk05 wrote:I'm going to go in a different direction with this, Djphinfan...I don't think it has much to do with the Clink at all. Our 2008 and 2009 seasons proved that the energy of our home stadium was powerless to help an old, weak, poorly coached team. The Seahawks weren't talented, weren't gelling, weren't winning, and most importantly had no discernible direction. We were getting routinely beat at home, all the time, by quarterbacks who have since turned out to be terrible.

It was just an awful situation, and it came down to talent and coaching. The stadium didn't help at all. A few years of it, and I'm sure our attendance would be dropping like yours is.

The attitude you see on this current Seahawks team, I'd ascribe it more to these things than the Clink:

1. A lot of the intensity that this team has projects from Pete Carroll himself. He's the youngest 60-year-old I've ever seen, leads by example, practices what he preaches, constantly pumped up. For all the rah-rah grief that he gets, I'll bet the players love to score just to see him celebrate on the sidelines.

2. There's accountability in this organization that keeps everyone on their toes. Pete Carroll and GM John Schneider are constantly shuffling the roster and implicitly threatening jobs by doing so. This is a stone-cold front office that has no problem putting people out to pasture. We've had expensive free agents cut (and their cap hits swallowed), first-round picks displaced in favor of off-the-street guys, zero consideration given for cost, seniority, or incumbency. This creates maximum effort and week-to-week awareness from the players.

3. Many of this team's draftees have chips on their shoulders. Our current secondary mostly went under-drafted (vastly so in the case of Richard Sherman), our QB gets dismissed by everyone for being too short, our running back and fullback got tossed aside by their old teams, and in the end you've got a ton of guys who feel that they have something to prove to the league. They play hard to prove it.

4. We've won. I hate to say it, but the best way to get a roster AND a fan base interested is to start winning. Pete Carroll came in and immediately won some games that nobody expected them to win - the San Diego and Chicago games in 2010, the Saints playoff win of course, beating the Giants on the road in 2011 (before they won the Super Bowl), and this year squeaking out wins over some high-flying passing offenses. It got the team believing in itself and its ability to beat the odds.

I appreciate your thoughts sir, and I agree, I'm not crazy to think that it can take a shi&$y team and create miracles, what I am sayin, it's relative, the energy improves the performance of the player, where the starting point of that player begins is what we don't know, what we do know, is the science involved, and the simple philosophy of an engaged fan over a spectator viewership, and when you are close to the action, the players feel like every move they make is on notice, the pure adrenaline of that feeling, and the tangible transition of energy because of that proximity, can lift a players performance imo.

Scottemojo wrote:The Phins are trying to cater to the box seat crowd, and the average fan is the casualty.Seattle talks up the 12. retires a number for the 12. The coach begs the 12 to be loud, players try to get the 12 involved, and they let the crowd know that when a false start happens, it was them who did it.

The other stuff all matters, but that is the real reason the fans are loud in Seattle.

I completely agree, What other teams put a references to their fan base into their uniforms. The 12 totems on the collar and pants might be more Nike influenced, but the 12 tag inside the jersey is definitely a true tribute to the fans. A professional organization that truly recognizes and gives tribute to its fans makes me as a fan want to support them even more. Go Hawks!!

kearly wrote:Well first of all, there is a pretty massive demographic/culture difference between Seattle and Miami. I won't risk sounding like Glenn Beck by going into the details, but really about the only thing Seattle and Miami have in common is how they vote.

Another difference is that up here we suffer from East coast bias- something Miami doesn't have to worry about. We are kind of an introverted society up here so I think that naturally leads to some insecurity. I don't know if that explains the origins of the 12thman and the intense pride Seahawks fans feel for impacting a game, but that's my theory. We want to show the world that WE are the most passionate fans on the planet and we love knowing that our efforts have an impact on the outcomes of games. We truly do feel like we are more than fans- we are a part of our football team.

The 12thman thing goes back to the 80's kingdome days. Our stadium plays a role, but I'd say it's mostly culture more than the stadium. No offense, but Miami is kind of infamous for being laissez-faire as a fan base. They are relaxed, hands off. Your baseball team is famous for having the most indifferent fan base in the majors- despite two recent championships. The dolphins aren't as bad, but it's a similarly relaxed atmosphere.

The Kingdome and Seahawks Stadium were built to be loud, but it's the culture that is responsible for the impact. Without the culture, our stadium wouldn't be any louder than most other stadiums.

As far as getting that kind of culture shift in Miami, that's tough. Up here in the NW, we are an odd bunch, and I think that kind of fuels right into the 12thman idea. There aren't a lot of other places I could see a 12thman type culture popping up. Maybe Minnesota since they have a dome, an odd, introverted fanbase with very similar demographics, a hunger to win a championship stemming from a history of losing (mostly), and poor winter weather. Arizona seems like 12thman-lite since they got their new stadium. It's hard to create though. It takes the right mixture of elements.

Yup, we disagree on some points, I think if a market could start with a building that is specially built for maximum energy, intimacy, and crowd noise, I can build the culture from there..Immediately the fan becomes invested..like the other poster said " There is no greater feeling for a fan than knowing they can affect the game. "

The ravens have a comparable energy that you all create, and if you've ever been to that stadium, you know how awesome and intimate it is inside..every dampness is in their seat before kickoff, because they promote, they market it, just like you all do..

I take exception to anyone saying the energy of the 12th Man is dependent on wins.

That may be true for the fan saying that, but it has NEVER been true for the 12th Man. I personally sat in Husky Stadium and screamed my lungs out with a whole ton of 12's, back when the Seahawks were so miserably bad the only thing to cheer for was The Tez. That place got rockin', man!

#12 does not depend on the Seahawks, the Seahawks depend on #12. And that is no joke. That is what really differentiates Seattle from other teams. Other teams talk about fans being important, but our team actually recognizes it, takes fierce pride in it, and considers #12 an actual part of the team. Seattle has retired #12 and hangs it from the rafters. Mike Holmgren presented #12 with a game ball when we forced 11 false starts against the Giants back in 2005. The organization seriously sees the 12th Man as integral part of the team, a driving force behind its success.

The 12th Man stands alone, stands proud, and gets loud no matter what the score is. And that is how we are able to fuel our team. Our noise isn't a result of a great play or a great win, our noise CREATES the great plays and the great wins. Everyone knows Seattle is unbeatable at home, but most people don't actually understand why. Most fans don't consider themselves an actual part of the team. WE DO, and we understand our Seahawks need us, so we scream until our throats are bloody every goddam time the defense takes the field. And if we're losing, we just get louder.

There really is no way to put it into words. But it is honestly one of the most wonderful things I have ever experienced. The community of #12, that energy that transcends language or thought, the intensity shared by the whole crowd, the shared pride in who we are and what we do, that the whole nation MUST respect us because the 12th Man is REAL. It's not something that a building can generate, or even a winning team. Like others have said, it is a culture. It has been here for a very long time, and will only continue to grow stronger in the future.

BlueTalon wrote:According to James Poulson, architect for the firm that designed C-Link, "We didn't go into it with the intention of making it a loud stadium. The things that we did for weather protection, for sight lines, and getting fans closer to the action, contributed to bouncing sound back down to the field."

Getting the fans closer to the action was actually the only option they had. When the decision was made to build the new stadium on the site of the King Dome, it meant they had to fit the new stadium into the same space the old one occupied, which was surrounded by buildings and other infrastructure. C-link has one of the smallest stadium footprints (if not the smallest) in the entire NFL. It simply wasn't possible to build a sprawling stadium park -- that option didn't exist. So in order to fit ~67,000 fans into the new stadium, they basically had to stack them in there.

The main reason the atmosphere at C-Link is likely never to be recaptured anywhere else, besides the lack of hyper-caffeinated 12th Men, is the fact that nobody is ever going to build an NFL stadium that small again. You see the effect of that in Miami. Also at Fed-Ex Field, also in Jerry's Jungle-gym -- 90K-100K people in the stands, that are not as loud as the 67K at C-link, because they are a lot more spread out in the huge seating capacity demanded in newer bigger stadiums.

(edited = typo)

So I guess they didnt think about what I'm talking about, I'm not sure..however, how crazy is that..there are actual stadiums being built and these execs still don't have a clue.

JGfromtheNW wrote:I will go with most of the others and say that it takes a mixture of things to generate the excitement and energy at the Clink.

Montanahawk is dead on in regards to that place being flat when a team is underperforming. I would say 2008 to games in 2010, there was an underwhelming amount of energy and noise created at Seahawks Stadium. I would say this happened because our team was not winning. Granted, there were still a large number of boisterous fans, the overall excitement level wasn't there. I recall going to the game in 2010 vs. KC and, while being boozed up with the buddies and screaming our heads off, there was not the electricity in the air like going to games in 05-06.

Seattle, specifically at the Clink, has been blessed with two teams that have been overall pretty successful since they have started playing there. It is undeniable that the the atmosphere at Sounders games is also amazing. Every Sounders game that I have gone to has had an energy I didn't know was possible in the USA.

I think the success of the team at the time, the personality of the team (as someone said, very underdog-ish/chip on the shoulder type), the die-hard fans and the design of the stadium all play a part.

Lets take the sound ers for an example, now I know about your history with the Seahawks, but I don't think there was a large one for soccer, but now all of a sudden, your home town soccer team is the biggest draw in the sport, (by a long shot) and your drawing 50 to 60 thousand fans..I feel strongly it has a lot to do with the building that creates the best atmosphere in North American sports..They want to be a part of it..they want to go crazy for three hours, and that configuration allows them to connect in a way to the team, and the action, that only a few other places can create.

HansGruber wrote:I take exception to anyone saying the energy of the 12th Man is dependent on wins.

That may be true for the fan saying that, but it has NEVER been true for the 12th Man. I personally sat in Husky Stadium and screamed my lungs out with a whole ton of 12's, back when the Seahawks were so miserably bad the only thing to cheer for was The Tez. That place got rockin', man!

#12 does not depend on the Seahawks, the Seahawks depend on #12. And that is no joke. That is what really differentiates Seattle from other teams. Other teams talk about fans being important, but our team actually recognizes it, takes fierce pride in it, and considers #12 an actual part of the team. Seattle has retired #12 and hangs it from the rafters. Mike Holmgren presented #12 with a game ball when we forced 11 false starts against the Giants back in 2005. The organization seriously sees the 12th Man as integral part of the team, a driving force behind its success.

The 12th Man stands alone, stands proud, and gets loud no matter what the score is. And that is how we are able to fuel our team. Our noise isn't a result of a great play or a great win, our noise CREATES the great plays and the great wins. Everyone knows Seattle is unbeatable at home, but most people don't actually understand why. Most fans don't consider themselves an actual part of the team. WE DO, and we understand our Seahawks need us, so we scream until our throats are bloody every goddam time the defense takes the field. And if we're losing, we just get louder.

There really is no way to put it into words. But it is honestly one of the most wonderful things I have ever experienced. The community of #12, that energy that transcends language or thought, the intensity shared by the whole crowd, the shared pride in who we are and what we do, that the whole nation MUST respect us because the 12th Man is REAL. It's not something that a building can generate, or even a winning team. Like others have said, it is a culture. It has been here for a very long time, and will only continue to grow stronger in the future.

very cool dude..

The debate I'm having is what comes first, chicken or the egg, for lack of a better phrase, they all tell me we must win first, I tell them what I'm telling you all, and what this post reps.

Here's the problem, you can get all our fans standing and screaming, were not going to get a false start on the opponent, because we're not close enough, and when your not close enough, all the great things you describe become farther out of reach.

I can show you hi lights of us stopping the game at the orange bowl, five times in a row, to the point where they had to make announcements for us to be quiet..lol..

Our team has descended slowly, our culture started to deteriote to where it is now, ever since we left that magical place. Coincidence?... No way.