Washam, Larry

ORAL HISTORY OF LARRY WASHAM
Interviewed by Keith McDaniel
December 5, 2013
MR. MCDANIEL: This is Keith McDaniel and today is December 5, 2013, and I am at the home of Larry Washam here in Oak Ridge. Larry, thank you for taking time to talk with us.
MR. WASHAM: You're welcome. I'm glad to.
MR. MCDANIEL: You have been in Oak Ridge a long, long time and done a lot of different things and we're going to get to that, but let's start out with: Tell me where you were born and raised, something about your family.
MR. WASHAM: Well, I was born May 5, 1950, in the Harriman Hospital in Harriman, Tennessee. My parents, Paul and Anne Washam, lived in Kingston, so I grew up in Kingston, Tennessee. I started elementary school there in 1956. I went to junior high school in Kingston and I graduated from Roane County High School in Kingston in 1968.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, your dad, Paul Washam that sounds familiar. Of course, I grew up in Kingston. What did he do?
MR. WASHAM: My dad worked on the maintenance for the Roane County Board of Education at all the schools in Kingston.
MR. MCDANIEL: That's right. Ok.
MR. WASHAM: Him and my uncle, they... My dad started working for the schools in 1940 before he went into the Army during World War II.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, I remember his name. I just, you know, of course, Kingston is a small town...
MR. WASHAM: Small town. My family went back for... into the 1800s...
MR. MCDANIEL: Wow.
MR. WASHAM: So, it was... we been in that area for years.
MR. MCDANIEL: So, you graduated. Did you have brothers and sisters?
MR. WASHAM: Had one sister that's a younger sister than myself.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, when growing up, did you know very much about Oak Ridge? I mean, did you have friends whose parents worked here or anything like that?
MR. WASHAM: Didn't know a whole lot about Oak Ridge. I remember coming to Oak Ridge some in, I guess, my first memories maybe junior high school. 'Cause you come up and do some shopping. They had the mall, the outdoor mall in Oak Ridge then and I remember coming up to the National Shirt Shop.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. WASHAM: That was a store there. But you didn't know very much about Oak Ridge. Nobody talked about it, you know. I had people in school whose parents worked here, but in the '50s and even high school, nobody talked about what they did or anything.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure. Yeah, I remember the same thing. 'Course I'm a little bit younger than you, not a whole lot, I was born in '57, so in the '60s, I remember I had friends whose parents worked at Oak Ridge but I had no idea what they did or, you know, what it was, so... So, you graduated high school in, what year did you say?
MR. WASHAM: 1968.
MR. MCDANIEL: 1968 and at Roane County High School, and then what did you do?
MR. WASHAM: After graduation, I put in an application at Y-12 for the Training and Technology School. It was called TAT School.
MR. MCDANIEL: The TAT School.
MR. WASHAM: The TAT School. And I wanted to... I liked working with my hands due to, I guess, my father, you know, he did electrical work, carpentry work, he was a master craftsman. So, I signed up and got into the summer program of learning to be a machinist.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MR. WASHAM: So, I was there for around three months in the summer and then, in the fall, I was accepted, along with other people, into the full program.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: So I worked there, in the school, learning machinist trade and then was interviewed for a job as a machinist at Y-12 and was accepted. I was hired. But we waited into the school until our security clearance came through.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MR. WASHAM: So, at that time, it took approximately three months to get a security clearance.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MR. WASHAM: So, when our clearance came through, we would start to work the next Monday.
MR. MCDANIEL: Tell me about the TAT School. Tell me what you remember about that. Who do you remember were teaching and, you know, things such as that?
MR. WASHAM: Well, the people that I remember the most was Bob Cooley, he was from Kingston. He was the person over the machine training.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok, right, right...
MR. WASHAM: And Dwayne Hink. He was an instructor that was also from Kingston and Charlie Sparks. Charlie was from Powell area, he was an instructor. Part of the time, I was learning to be a machinist and then when they... I was going to go work in dimensional inspection department when I hired in. So, I went into training for that at the TAT School.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see.
MR. WASHAM: And that's... Charlie Sparks, actually, was a supervisor in the dimensional inspection group that influenced me to go into the inspection part of it.
MR. MCDANIEL: So, what is dimensional inspection?
MR. WASHAM: Dimensional inspect is where you check the parts that the machinists make out on -- using the lathes and milling machines and the different kinds of equipment, they make something, we check the dimensions to make sure ...
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, to make sure it's...
MR. WASHAM: ...in tolerance, that it fits the specifications.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MR. WASHAM: So, I did that from...
MR. MCDANIEL: So, you liked the TAT School? I mean, it was a good...
MR. WASHAM: Oh, I loved the TAT School.
MR. MCDANIEL: It was a good training program for you.
MR. WASHAM: It was a great school. A lot of the people that went through the school, it gave them a good opportunity. Most of the people were pretty much out of high school and several people had gotten out of the military that got into it. That was the start of making a great life for me was the TAT School in Oak Ridge, Tennessee.
MR. MCDANIEL: And that was about the same time that Y-12 was really kind of transitioning from chemical to machining. I mean, they were really beefing up their machining shop, their machine shop, weren't they?
MR. WASHAM: Yeah, and it'd already transferred up... transformed from a chemical to a machine operation, by the time I hired in. They were in the process of needing a lot more machinists. You know, it'd been up and down over the years the way the Cold War had developed.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: And when I hired in, they were in a, I guess you would describe it, as a mass hiring effort in the machine operations.
MR. MCDANIEL: Which was good for you, wasn't it?
MR. WASHAM: Great for me! (laughs) It was great for me. And I started there April 14, 1969.
MR. MCDANIEL: At Y-12.
MR. WASHAM: At Y-12 and I worked in dimensional inspection at that time and then I got laid off. In 1975, they had some lay-offs. I'd almost got laid off once before. Matter of fact, I was scheduled to get laid off and there's one person quit...
MR. MCDANIEL: Really.
MR. WASHAM: Which moved me -- I was the last person on the seniority list.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, wow.
MR. WASHAM: And then they recalled and brought about 150 workers back and I said, "Well, I've got it made, now."
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: And then, less than a year, I was laid off.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right? Oh, my.
MR. WASHAM: I left Oak Ridge, or Y-12 on a Friday afternoon. Started to work at K-25 on Monday.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did you really?
MR. WASHAM: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, this was '75, so who was the contractor then? Was it still Union Carbide?
MR. WASHAM: Union Carbide
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, so Union Carbide was running all the facilities still.
MR. WASHAM: They ran all three facilities then, at that time.
MR. MCDANIEL: So, you ... You left Y-12 on a Friday and started K-25 on a Monday? You couldn't ask for anything better, could you?
MR. WASHAM: No, you couldn't. I went down and I worked in the separations systems, which was the centrifuge project.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MR. WASHAM: It was a new way of enriching fuel grade uranium that was in early stages of that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: So I worked there for 49 weeks and got recalled to Y-12.
MR. MCDANIEL: Really?
MR. WASHAM: And I went back... When I went back in 1976, I was... I went into the machine shop.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did you?
MR. WASHAM: So, I was actually running the lathes and mills and making the parts instead of inspecting them.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MR. WASHAM: So, I did that through 1982, I believe. And then I went back in dimensional inspection and I was there 'til October, 1987. And October 5, 1987, I became a full-time business representative for the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MR. WASHAM: District Lodge 169 which, I was on a union leave-of-absence from October 5, 1987 until I retired in April of 2009. So...
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right? So, I want to get back... I want to get to that, but let's go back to your work at Y-12. They had, like you said, they had a lot of machinists that were working.
MR. WASHAM: A lot of machinists, yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: What... What was it, mostly? Was it mostly ... I don't know what's classified and what's not, but was it mostly like working on the secondaries or working on the stuff that Y-12 did for the nuclear stockpile?
MR. WASHAM: It was all for the ... In the weapons system, I guess you might say.
MR. MCDANIEL: In the weapons system.
MR. WASHAM: You know, a lot of the things we were making, you know, we had, maybe, names you called them inside the plant.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: But you really didn't know what, about...
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, you just knew... It was kind of a holdover from the old days of the Manhattan Project where everything was compartmentalized. You knew what you had to do but you didn't necessarily know how that fit into the big picture.
MR. WASHAM: Right, right. And it, you know, you might know bits and pieces.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: And, to be honest with you, most of the people, they really didn't care about that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: Now, it was a good place to work. It was good union jobs. We had good wages, good benefits and people were satisfied, pretty much, with it, you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, exactly. Now, did you do other kinds of things? I know that ... I know that Y-12, the machine shop there, did some, kind of, unique and different things, projects that came along. Were you involved in any, like... gosh, I can't remember the names of a couple of things...But...
MR. WASHAM: Well, you know, I couldn't say anything that was different from any other machinist, you know. I know there were some things that were unique, for example, actually, I didn't work on any of them, but the moon box was a big deal that the machinists made...
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, right, exactly...
MR. WASHAM: And they're on exhibit at the Smithsonian in Washington, D.C., in the Aerospace Museum.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure.
MR. WASHAM: And that, at the time, was quite an accomplishment. You know, it's made out of solid aluminum. It was one of the most difficult and precision machine jobs in the history of the world, at that particular time.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MR. WASHAM: And so, I've seen the boxes and knew people that worked on them and all, so that was...
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, Y-12 machine shop had a reputation and it was being, you know, marketed, really, as... with the reputation of, "If you can't get it done anywhere else, we can do it for you."
MR. WASHAM: Yeah. I can remember working out there; Jack Case was the plant manager at the time. Matter of fact, Jack Case was a machinist by trade. He started out as a machinist and he always had a good place in his heart for the machinists and, really, the machinists' union. And I remember they always used to say that, Jack said they received the smallest screw in the world from Japan and he took it in to one of our machine shops and we drilled a hole in it and threaded it and sent it back to them. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. WASHAM: You know, what anybody can do, we can do any kind of machining operation in the world, you know. But that was a memorable phrase I remember.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I'm sure. Well, so you did the machine shop work, well, the inspection and the machine ship work for a long time.
MR. WASHAM: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: How did things change, as a worker, when Union Carbide left and, you know, some of the other, newer contractors came in? Did it change for you guys very much or ...?
MR. WASHAM: Yeah, it started changing some. You know, over the years, I guess. See, 19--... I believe it was 1984's when Martin-Marietta gained the contract.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MR. WASHAM: And we had contract negotiations that year. Matter of fact, Martin-Marietta was seeking the unions out, you know, as we had dinner with them and things like that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, yeah, courting them, weren't they?
MR. WASHAM: Courting us before... This was before they were selected, you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: Along with some other employers. But when they got the contract, we had negotiations that year and we'd reached an agreement and then, when the agreement was being implemented, or actually, prior to that, Martin-Marietta was wanting to renege on a few things in the clause. We had to call all of our members back together 'cause they was a real threat that we may even strike over this, you know. And, finally, the company agreed with our position and everything was good because ... That set a bad tone after that. It was clearly -- it was on the wages, it was the percentage of increase the workers would get and the company was basically trying to say, well, it was only for the top rate there, but it wasn't. And, you know, we had clear notes and things. So, if finally got settled, but it set a bad tone.
MR. MCDANIEL: It did, between the union and Martin-Marietta.
MR. WASHAM: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah. Now, I would imagine while you were working there, you were a, I mean, you weren't working for the union, but you're a, you're actively involved in the union, weren't you?
MR. WASHAM: Oh, yeah, I became a union steward, oh, 1970. I was a young man, you know, '70, '71. A union steward for a while and then my area that I was in closed up that inspection area and I went to another one and they already had a steward, so, you know, I was just a good, dues-paying, loyal union member. And then, in 1981 -- this was after the 1981 strike, we had about a 10-week strike in '81.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MR. WASHAM: It was over some real important issues. Shift preference, how the workers were having to work different shifts and things like that -- working conditions. And then, I was asked to run as recording secretary for my local and I was elected recording secretary and I assumed office in January of 1982. Served in that office for two years, they were two year terms at that time.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MR. WASHAM: And then, I ran for president of my local and I won the election and served a two-year term and re-ran and was re-elected and I served almost all that term and that's when I became a business representative.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MR. WASHAM: And when you become the business representative, I had to resign as president 'cause I was full-time covering East Tennessee.
MR. MCDANIEL: So you went to work for the union at that time.
MR. WASHAM: I went to work for the union in October of 1987.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MR. WASHAM: And I was on a union leave-of-absence until I came back and retired.
MR. MCDANIEL: 'Til you came back to retire, sure.
MR. WASHAM: And I did come back to the plant a few times from '87 'til 9-... '91.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: As a representative of the employees.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see.
MR. WASHAM: In grievance hearings and some negotiations and things like that...
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: ... but not as a -- with my tools.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right, exactly...
MR. WASHAM: But I was on a leave, but I was working full-time for the union. I could have went back into the plant at any time when you're on a union leave-of-absence...
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MR. WASHAM: You stay on the seniority list and all that, but all your other benefits and all stopped from the time you went for the union.
MR. MCDANIEL: But you could go back and just pick up where you left off.
MR. WASHAM: I could go back and pick up where I left off and if I stayed there so many months, you go back and pick up all your other time...
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MR. WASHAM: But...
MR. MCDANIEL: You didn't do that?
MR. WASHAM: I didn't do that. I was... I retired from the machinists union. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, you said you were a business representative. What does that mean?
MR. WASHAM: You represent the members in your union, which mine was the machinists union and my local lodge was 480 in Oak Ridge down on 101 East Lincoln Road's where our union hall is.
MR. MCDANIEL: That's down near... down near Louisiana... off Louisiana Street.
MR. WASHAM: Right off Louisiana on the corner of Louisiana and Lincoln. We always used to refer to it behind Bruner's shopping center.
MR. MCDANIEL: Behind Bruner's, that's what I was about to say.
MR. WASHAM: Bruner's was a big store, grocery store during my era here.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah and there's... Speaking of, let's talk about that. There's three lodges down there, isn't there? Three union lodges?
MR. WASHAM: There's the machinists and then also the IBW is just right up the street from us.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that electrical?
MR. WASHAM: That's electrical. And I believe that's Local 270.
MR. MCDANIEL: And is there one behind there? There's not. There's just those two.
MR. WASHAM: Just those two.
MR. MCDANIEL: Just those two. That's right.
MR. WASHAM: And they also, at one time, there on Jefferson... Or, not Jefferson Avenue, but I guess that's Jefferson that's right down from the Boys' Club.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MR. WASHAM: Used to be the Oak Ridge Central Labor Council.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, right, right...
MR. WASHAM: And that was the home of the Atomic Trades and Labor Council which was the umbrella organization that represented all the employees at Y-12 and X-10.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: Now, the other union hall you might be talking about is one up in the old Grove Center, was the OCAW Local Lodge up there.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, yeah, there's one up... there was one up there, too.
MR. WASHAM: But the Central Labor Council was... had a ... played a big influence in Oak Ridge. When the facilities were organized in 1946 was Y-12... or not Y-12 but X-10. In 1950 was Y-12 and K-25 was organized around '46 and it was a battle... or competitive unions. It was AFL and the CIO.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: So that the AFL had the Central Labor Councils. So, that's a body that's the political and legislative arm of all the unions. And, at that time, we had union members on city council. We had one of our business agents early on, Livingstone, that ran for United States Congress.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. WASHAM: He didn't win. He was running against Howard Baker when Baker was a Congressman.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, he was a congressman.
MR. WASHAM: Before he was a Senator. And a lot of labor leaders in the community, at that time, in the early -- prior to me, you know -- I just think it's just real important that... See Oak Ridge had the eighth largest bus system in the United States.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MR. WASHAM: And we had a... A machinist had a local lodge that represented all the mechanics that worked on all those buses and all here in Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really?
MR. WASHAM: Then, we had another local lodge that represented workers, welders and things like that, that worked on all the houses and the buildings in Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: Then we had Local Lodge 480, which was my lodge that I eventually belonged to, that represented the employees at Y-12 and X-10. And then, as the city privatized, and the buses and the transportation -- those locals folded in to Local Lodge 480 in Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MR. WASHAM: And, eventually, you know, all those jobs went away.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: On the buses and on the buildings...
MR. MCDANIEL: And the building and all...
MR. WASHAM: The buildings and things like that and we stayed in existence. And then, eventually, another machinists' union lodge, 2709, which was the bowling facility, was there and then they merged into our local back some years ago now. It's just Lodge 480 in Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MR. WASHAM: But, so, I have been a member of the union since I was 19 years old and a machinist.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: Made a big influence on my life. I wouldn't a had nothing if it wasn't for the good union wages, good union jobs and really enjoyed living in Oak Ridge, you know. And we were community activists back then.
MR. MCDANIEL: I was going to ask about the relationship between the union, the union members and the community. Talk about that a little bit.
MR. WASHAM: We had a great relationship with, between the community and the unions. You know, over the years, especially from the machinists' union, we had people that served as the chairman of the Democratic Party. We were instrumental... At one time you could... I can remember, at one time, in the '70s and even the '80s, if you didn't have the endorsement of the labor unions, you couldn't get elected to an office in Anderson County.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: And... And, you know, our union density is down today where we don't have that role, but, you know, we had a big influence, you know. We had the Oak Ridge Central Labor Council, we endorsed candidates. Candidates would seek us out looking for endorsements.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, exactly. I had -- I can't remember who it was -- but, I interviewed somebody who was running for something and he said, "Yeah," he says, "I don't think the union liked me so I lost the election."
MR. WASHAM: You couldn't get elected if you didn't have support, but see, we looked after the benefit of the working people.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: We wanted to insure people had fair representation. You know, we promoted legislation through the Central Labor Council that would be favorable to working people. Not only union people, but working people in general, you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure...
MR. WASHAM: And I had the fortunate to be elected president of the Oak Ridge Central Labor Council in 1986 and then, in '87, by the end of the year, we had merged with the Knoxville, Oak Ridge. And one thing, in May of '87, lightning struck the main electrical box on our building. Our building was one of the old World War II buildings that was down close to the Boys' Club...
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right, sure.
MR. WASHAM: Right where the Oak Ridge Utility building is now.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah.
MR. WASHAM: And it burnt it to the ground.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. WASHAM: And so, we eventually sold the property and all. The Boys' Club got that property now and things... But we had a lot of influence, labor did. And, matter of fact, for example, when we'd be on a strike.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: It was unbelievable the amount of support that the community showed to us.
MR. MCDANIEL: Really?
MR. WASHAM: Oh, absolutely. You know, when we'd be on the picket lines, businesses would bring us out food, pizzas, just all kinds of, the community support was just wonderful.
MR. MCDANIEL: Really?
MR. WASHAM: Because we had so many people that lived here in Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, exactly.
MR. WASHAM: And it was a just cause. It wasn't because we were greedy. It was a just cause of better wages, working conditions and benefits for our members. And that's why Oak Ridge had such a high standard of living for so many years. They were good, blue collar jobs.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: And you also had a highly educated technical and scientific community here. And the people that were the...
MR. MCDANIEL: And they understood that they could not do their job unless you were able to do your job.
MR. WASHAM: They understood it. It was unbelievable that a lot of the friends that labor had from the scientific community and from people that were nationally known in their field of work but they cared for the average working guy.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: You know, and the ones that had the least empathy for people was wanna-be, mid-level managers.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right? Yeah.
MR. WASHAM: They thought that they, you know, "I've got power over people" and all, but the people that were really nice people.
MR. MCDANIEL: That didn't have ... The people that didn't have to prove anything to anybody.
MR. WASHAM: They didn't have to prove nothing.
MR. MCDANIEL: They supported you.
MR. WASHAM: They were world-renowned in their ... and they were very, yeah, pro-union type people and they were just good people.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: And we had a great relationship with those folks.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MR. WASHAM: But we would...
MR. MCDANIEL: Anybody in particular that you can remember? I know I'm putting you on the spot, but...
MR. WASHAM: You know, I can't... I used to go to church with a guy, elderly fellow, Dr. Barton. He was a great person. Him was a great person and his wife, Ruth Barton. A lot of folks. Jack Case was always, you know, even though he was... He was a friend. He knew what the working guy did 'cause he was a working guy early on.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure.
MR. WASHAM: And he did a lot for this community. They was a lot of people that were ... I was always involved in the Democratic Party and, see, most of those people, at that time, they were all members... or good, loyal Democrats. You know, they wanted to see everybody do good.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: Not just ... Today, the one percent, you know...
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, both the Democrat and the Republican party are not what they were 30 years ago or 40 years ago.
MR. WASHAM: No. There're too many corporatists.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, sure.
MR. WASHAM: You know, looking after the interests of the corporations and America goes down, Oak Ridge's gone down. Just look at Oak Ridge now compared to what it used to be, with K-25 shutting down, the loss of so many jobs at Y-12, X-10 and I'm talking about good, blue collar jobs.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MR. WASHAM: The city had a better tax base, you know, you had nice parks, recreation. Oak Ridge was everybody's dream to live in...
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: ... when I was growing up. But now, people look at it in a different light.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: You know, I can drive down the street and you see grass growing in the sidewalks and it never used to be like that here. But we had... People had pride in their work. You had a lot of skilled people in this town. I can remember, you know, Oak Ridge being called the Atomic Energy Capital of the World.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: And there's more PhD's in the city limits of Oak Ridge, per capita, than anywhere on the face of the earth.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MR. WASHAM: And they cared about things, but, you know, things change.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: And you can't live in the past.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, exactly.
MR. WASHAM: It's just... You hate to see a town lose so many good-paying jobs.
MR. MCDANIEL: The ... You mentioned earlier about the relationship that the union had with Union Carbide and you said that was generally good, wasn't it?
MR. WASHAM: Yeah. We had battles...
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: But, you know, we had a few strikes. 1981 was like a 10-week strike.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: It was basically a lot of issues that was over the working conditions. Shift work. Shifts and stuff.
MR. MCDANIEL: Who was the... Who was the plant manager at that time? Do you remember?
MR. WASHAM: I believe in 1981, I think it was still Jack Case in '81.
MR. MCDANIEL: Was it Jack Case? Ok.
MR. WASHAM: And then, when we went on strike in '87, it was... Jack had already retired. I got a blank, but I can see him right now.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right...
MR. WASHAM: Gordon Fee.
MR. MCDANIEL: Was it Gordon?
MR. WASHAM: Gordon Fee in '87. And, matter of fact, that was a strike that ... Over some issues that shouldn't have ever taken place. But Martin-Marietta was really pushing these issues and they haven't been one since. That was the last strike. It's been 26 years ago now and... which, you know, nobody ever likes to have a dispute, you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure.
MR. WASHAM: But sometimes, you got to stand up for the right thing, you know, to represent your members. And our membership was always overwhelmingly, I mean, overwhelmingly supportive of those actions, you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right... I would imagine, though, with Jack Case and Gordon Fee, I mean, they were probably both caught in the middle, weren't they?
MR. WASHAM: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: I mean, you know, they had their superiors, you know.
MR. WASHAM: Yeah, they probably were, you know, on things. A lot of times, it's a more complicated process of how do you get to an agreement than ...
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: And after the '87 strike, Bob Kyle was president of the metal trades and he got the federal mediation service and the company put on some training that really helped. And it was to understand how decisions were made on the union part and how decisions were made by the employer and it really helped relations after that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did it?
MR. WASHAM: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, when you came to Oak Ridge, did you live in Kingston or did you live in Oak Ridge?
MR. WASHAM: When I first started working here, I lived in Kingston.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: And I lived in Midtown for a while. And then, I moved to Oak Ridge in April of 1981.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok, I see.
MR. WASHAM: And I moved here and I moved in over at the Tara Hills apartment complex.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MR. WASHAM: And I ended up living there for 10 years.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did you really?
MR. WASHAM: I didn't plan on being there but just a few months...
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure...
MR. WASHAM: You know, I guess the way my activities, you know, I didn't need a whole lot in a home. Then I bought my residence here in 1990.
MR. MCDANIEL: Uh-huh, right, right...
MR. WASHAM: And I kept it even though I had to move away a couple of times.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure, I understand.
MR. WASHAM: For example, in 19--... In February of 1981, I went on what's called the grand lodge staff. I went to work for the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers. It's our international union, as a Grand Lodge representative that was an organizer. I worked all over the United States and Canada. I was the guy that would go in and start a union at a place that didn't have representation there.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: So, from February of '91 until, like, June of '93, you'd be on the road for, usually a minimum two weeks at a time, then you'd come back, and I'd come back to Oak Ridge. And then, in June of '93 they moved what's called your home station, home assignment, was moved to Chicago, Illinois.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MR. WASHAM: And I had the responsibility of organizing in the metropolitan Chicago area and the state of Wisconsin. So, I moved there and I lived part of the time in Arlington Heights and Mount Prospect which are the northwest suburbs, close, relatively close to O'Hare Airport.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: And that's where our general vice president's office was. I was working out of that office in Des Plaines, Illinois. So my assignments would take me all over the United States and Canada.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure...
MR. WASHAM: I went to Canada on some assignments to help the Canadians. Then, in '97, it was probably around September of '97, they moved my home station back to Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really.
MR. WASHAM: And my international president said, "I'm going to need you back home," he said. "Because, Larry," he said, "you're running the biggest campaign," said, "you're going to be all over the United States so it really doesn't matter ..."
MR. MCDANIEL: Where you are.
MR. WASHAM: "...where you are, so you're coming back home." To your real home. (laughter) That was good for me because ...
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure. I understand.
MR. WASHAM: So, I lived here and then I worked all over the country, you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MR. WASHAM: But then, in 2005, I was promoted to the Director of Organizing for the machinists' union. I had the responsibility of organizing all over the United States for now, I had to take up residence in the Washington, D.C. area then.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see.
MR. WASHAM: So, I moved to Crofton, Maryland. That's 12 miles west of Annapolis, Maryland, and 25 miles from the heart of...
MR. MCDANIEL: D.C.?
MR. WASHAM: ...D.C.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: And our international headquarters was just right outside the Beltway in Upper Marlboro, Maryland. So, I started as the director in May, 2005, and then I retired first of January, 2009.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MR. WASHAM: So, I actually went out early. I mean, I really loved the job I had. I mean, the union's been my whole life, you know, helping people. And I had to have lung reduction surgery in 2006 and they had to remove part of my upper and lower right lobe. Then, a year later, my diaphragm froze, or it was paralyzed and when it paralyzes, it works in reverse and so...
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, goodness.
MR. WASHAM: So I had to have surgery and go in. I've still got stitches just all around that diaphragm to help hold it in the right place. So, in the summer of 2008, finally, my surgeon and my pulmonary doctor, which is at Georgetown University in D.C., who, they saved my life. That surgeon saved my life.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: They finally said, "Larry," said, "You need to retire." And I said, "Well, I love what I'm doing." And the doctor -- pulmonary doctor -- finally told me, said, "You know, Larry," said, "There's cemeteries full of good people with good intentions," said, "You want to live or die?"
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: In the balance of scales, I said, "I want to live." (laughs) You know, so... And I retired at the end of the year.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did you?
MR. WASHAM: And I, you know, the organization was great...
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah.
MR. WASHAM: ... to me...
MR. MCDANIEL: Was it? That's good.
MR. WASHAM: ...on that... And I...
MR. MCDANIEL: Let's talk a little bit about... 'scuse me, didn't mean to interrupt you... What's the difference between the union when you were working and, like say, the unions in Oak Ridge now?
MR. WASHAM: Well, it's hard for me to say since I'm retired, you know. I still ... I'll go to my Lodge meetings when I'm in town and, you know, things have changed so much. I really don't... I like to go to them for the... to socialize and listen, if I can add to anything to it, I will.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MR. WASHAM: But, you know, it's hard for me to say because times changes, conditions changes, peoples in the different positions have changed.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MR. WASHAM: But it's ... It's still the best thing that the...
MR. MCDANIEL: I mean, union's still strong in Oak Ridge, isn't it?
MR. WASHAM: Yeah, yeah...
MR. MCDANIEL: I mean the unions are.
MR. WASHAM: And one thing that I've really enjoyed, too, with... is we have started up the retirees club for the machinists' union in Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right? Ok.
MR. WASHAM: We'll have anywhere from 50 to 75 show up at our union hall.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: And we meet the third Tuesday of the month. And that's a lot of fun because you reminisce with the people that you actually worked with.
MR. MCDANIEL: Of course, of course...
MR. WASHAM: But we're down now to where we only have a little over, maybe around 650 retirees in the machinists' union.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really?
MR. WASHAM: And the rest of them have passed away.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, sure.
MR. WASHAM: You know, lot of illnesses. A lot of different cancers and things from working out at the plants.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: So, our purpose of our club is to socialize with one another but we also bring in speakers that'll try to address benefit... the needs of retirees.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: And let them know that if they're by themselves, or whatever, you know, if they need a ride to the ... we'll have somebody there to look after 'em and what. We've had doctors come in speak, you know, Department of Labor.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: We've had them there on a couple occasions that talk with 'em about the illnesses related out there and about the compensation packages and try to help 'em on things like that and...
MR. MCDANIEL: Let me ask you... Speaking of that, is there any... Is there any... I know in any kind of industrial situation, whether it's at Oak Ridge or some other, a chemical company or some other thing like that, there's historically been illnesses related to the work.
MR. WASHAM: Yeah. Right.
MR. MCDANIEL: To the work that's being done. Is Oak Ridge different? I mean, is it... Is there something specific about what was done at Oak Ridge that would create a different kind of, unique kind of illnesses?
MR. WASHAM: Well, I guess working in the different kinds of materials and stuff.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: The average person would never be exposed to that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: And there's an organization called the Cold War Patriots...
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: ...that promote, you know, health and safety. But we started putting a lot of emphasis on health and safety in 1984, during contract negotiations, from the union standpoint, and was able to get some full-time health and safety committees.
MR. MCDANIEL: That was about the time that the DOE office here, when Joe LaGrone and really, he put a big emphasis on the environmental clean-up efforts in Oak Ridge as well.
MR. WASHAM: Yeah, yeah... And, see, they had the deal about where they couldn't find all the ...
MR. MCDANIEL: Mercury...
MR. WASHAM: ...mercury out there. It caused Congressional hearings on that. And, you know, I guess, you know, you look back: The nuclear industry was in its infancy, you know, when the Manhattan Project started up. And, you know, I'm just theorizing, you know, in any kind of industries or when there's a war going on, you know, there's a collateral damage, they say, which is a terrible thing but...
MR. MCDANIEL: It was a combination of not knowing and ignoring.
MR. WASHAM: Ignoring. And see, they used to, in the health and safety meetings they used to have out there, you know, they'd tell you you were safer there than you were in your own homes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: And it was a propaganda.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: You know, there were signs all over the place about safety and all and a lot of people looked at it as a joke, in a way, you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: And, as history shows, look how many people have collected the monetary compensation and the health benefits with the medical cards for care and all.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure...
MR. WASHAM: And these people were dedicated to the defense of the United States.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: You know, they ...
MR. MCDANIEL: They should be taken care of.
MR. WASHAM: They should be taken care of.
MR. MCDANIEL: Just like our veterans should be taken care of.
MR. WASHAM: Just like our veterans. They paid the price.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: And a lot of people didn't ask questions.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: And, you know, we found out, once we started putting a real emphasis on health and safety, that's when things started going for the better on it, you know, and... Somebody would leak a study that'd been done. You'd ask, you know, "Is anything? Studies being done on that?" "Well, no, ..." Then somebody'd leak something and they'd been doing studies where that people that worked in certain locations would have a higher rate than the general population for different cancers and things like that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, there was a reason that they all had to wear radiation badges. I mean, they weren't just for...ornament. It wasn't a brooch! (laughter)
MR. WASHAM: They weren't for ... It wasn't a Christmas tree ornament! (laughs)
MR. MCDANIEL: Exactly.
MR. WASHAM: That's right. You know, we had to go down and take body counts.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah.
MR. WASHAM: In the body count where they'd assay the different radioactive material would be in your body and all and they'd always, if you had high levels, they'd say, "Well, that person's hot," you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MR. WASHAM: We had to move them out of what they referred to as an exotic area into a non-exotic area. But, you know, things changed, and all and, hopefully, it's a much safer place out there. I'm sure it is than...
MR. MCDANIEL: Than it was...
MR. WASHAM: Than it was because the emphasis on the health and safety.
MR. MCDANIEL: As they say, they couldn't get away with some of the stuff today that they did back then.
MR. WASHAM: No.
MR. MCDANIEL: They just couldn't. Nobody would allow it.
MR. WASHAM: No, no. No, no. And, you know, in people's mortality has increased.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: Nationwide. And I'll tell you where that, you know, when I's a kid, a person my age today would be considered you've got one foot in the grave...
MR. MCDANIEL: Old...
MR. WASHAM: You're ready to go, you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Exactly.
MR. WASHAM: That's not the case anymore.
MR. MCDANIEL: No, it's not. It's not.
MR. WASHAM: But I really enjoyed being in Oak Ridge. I like living here and that's why, even though when my home station was moved to Chicago and then to the D.C. area, I always maintained my place here. Now, I'd come back here on holidays, vacations...
MR. MCDANIEL: 'Cause you knew one of these days you were going to retire, you were going to come back here.
MR. WASHAM: I was going to come back here. And I had a lot of people say, "Why in the world would you want to come back here?" (laughter) And 'specially I got a lot of that when Tennessee was making the national news on a lot of these laws they were trying...
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, yeah, right.
MR. WASHAM: You know, it was just... a lot of cra... the Tea Party and stuff.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, yeah.
MR. WASHAM: So, a lot of people said, "Why would you want to go back to that for?" you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Uh-huh, right. Sure, sure...
MR. WASHAM: And see, in Anderson County, you know, if you think back, you know, you read back historically, you know, it was always a great place and then, you had certain pockets like, you know... And Clinton was the first school that integrated in the South and the crazies blew it up.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MR. WASHAM: They blew it up.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: So, you know, you had some of the most intelligent people in the world but you drive 15, 20 minutes and you were in the middle of Appalachia and very racist places. Of all the places, I guess I worked all over the United States, Tennessee's known today as one of the most racist places in America.
MR. MCDANIEL: Wow.
MR. WASHAM: That's why people say, "Why do you want to go back to that?" you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: I said, "Well, its home."
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, and Oak Ridge is different. It's always been different than the, you know...
MR. WASHAM: Yeah, yeah. Oak Ridge has. That's why I always liked Oak Ridge. Oak Ridge was always different, you're right about that, now. You really are. Oak Ridge was always a progressive city.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah.
MR. WASHAM: And was a, 'specially during my lifetime, was always ahead of the curve on a progressive community.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure, exactly.
MR. WASHAM: And I liked Oak Ridge, you know, and so...
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, you know, just like you, I can remember, you know, Mom and Dad piling us in the Impala and driving to, on Friday night and going to Shoney's and walking the shopping center, you know, so, it was ... It was a treat for us to come to Oak Ridge.
MR. WASHAM: Oh, yeah, when I got out of high school, you know, the big thing then was the muscle cars and you would circle Shoney's. See, at that time, you know, Shoney's had the drive-in restaurant.
MR. MCDANIEL: And it was next door to where the Shoney's is now.
MR. WASHAM: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: It's ... I remember when they built the new one right next door to the old one or something, so...
MR. WASHAM: Oh, yeah, it was the place, you know...
MR. MCDANIEL: It was the place.
MR. WASHAM: ...Cruise... You had your car. I 'member cruisin' it ...
MR. MCDANIEL: Well Oak Ridge, from Kingston, Oak Ridge was a good date place. I mean, you know, that's... If you didn't go to Knoxville you went to Oak Ridge, you know, so...
MR. WASHAM: Oh, yeah, that's where you went.
MR. MCDANIEL: Exactly.
MR. WASHAM: And it was a good place, and a it was a good place for young people to meet other young people, you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: A lot of people, that's where they met their girlfriends, future wives and all. That was the Shoney's area. Then, one of the big deals was going to the drive-in at the ... the drive-in out there on Illinois Avenue.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, exactly.
MR. WASHAM: And that was big.
MR. MCDANIEL: That was. I remember having first McDonald's hamburger in Oak Ridge.
MR. WASHAM: Yeah, yeah...
MR. MCDANIEL: I don't remember, maybe it was 19 cents or something like that. (laughter)
MR. WASHAM: Oh, yeah. See, you had McDonald's. You know, I never did go to the Wildcat Den or anything but I had a lot of friends that I worked with would talk about when they were teenagers that was...
MR. MCDANIEL: That's where they went.
MR. WASHAM: Yeah, and that was really a progressive deal, you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: I'd heard them, you know, talk about, you know, where they'd have the dances and Oak Ridge was real noted for a lot of good high school rock and roll bands.
MR. MCDANIEL: That's true.
MR. WASHAM: They'd have, you know, the Battle of the Bands and things like that which was good.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, yeah...
MR. WASHAM: And you had everything you needed at one time in Oak Ridge, you know. It was a great community. It was a safe community. When I first moved to Oak Ridge, you know, it was virtually crime-free, you know. No crime. You could lay...
MR. MCDANIEL: And this was... I mean, this was ... This was later on. This wasn't anywhere near the Manhattan Project, this was the...
MR. WASHAM: No, this was...
MR. MCDANIEL: '70s, you know.
MR. WASHAM: Oh, yeah. It was a great community. The swimming pool, you know, it was a great place to go for young people.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: There was a lot for young people to do at that time, you know, and, again, I didn't move here 'til '81, but, you know, I was in and out of Oak Ridge almost every day...
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: ...working here from '69 and then, you know, when I got out of high school, you know, you'd come to Oak Ridge to ... I guess what I come to Oak Ridge, was looking, trying to find, meet a good looking girl.
MR. MCDANIEL: A good-looking Oak Ridge girl, that's right.
MR. WASHAM: You know, had the muscle car and I'd cruise Shoney's hope maybe I could meet the right one or something, you know. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MR. WASHAM: So it was... It was a lot of fun.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, good, good...
MR. WASHAM: You had a lot of... People socialized back then, you know. You didn't have the computers so people went places to...
MR. MCDANIEL: To meet.
MR. WASHAM: To meet and to talk and share your ideas.
MR. MCDANIEL: And get in trouble.
MR. WASHAM: Get in trouble if you could, you know. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: Exactly.
MR. WASHAM: But it was... It was a great place. I enjoyed it. And during my time here involved with the union, you know, we was very civic-oriented, too. You know, we used to help a lot back in the, 'specially the early to middle 80s, with the Special Olympics.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MR. WASHAM: Things like that, you know. We'd help people that would do it. We had a group of musicians that had a band, Wendell Cook and some guys, they would play music...
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, wow.
MR. WASHAM: We did a lot, tried to promote the community. We always was huge supporters of the United Way.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really?
MR. WASHAM: And, I forget now exactly what year, it was in the early '80s, so the... We convinced the company if they really want to get participation, then let the unions run it for the bargaining.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see.
MR. WASHAM: And our contributions was astronomical when that took place, you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really?
MR. WASHAM: 'Cause the company would allow us to have a meeting with different groups of employees during working hours at the plant. And when they'd hear the good things that it did coming from their peers...
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: ... they responded.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: You know, it wasn't like your boss coming up saying, "Here, fill this card out. We need a donation."
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: And it evolved and we had people in the management positions, upper level management, that saw the benefit of it, too. So, it was a joint-type efforts, which is good because people were getting helped that needs these, that needed the agencies and the help of them.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: That was the whole goal was to help as many people as we could.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right, exactly...
MR. WASHAM: So that worked out good. The same thing went with the bond drive. We used to have savings bond drives.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did you?
MR. WASHAM: And when the company agreed to let the union do the bond drive for the hourly employees, the participation, again, went up astronomically, you know. And it wasn't like, you know, you was being forced, you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MR. WASHAM: You had the opportunity. It was free will, you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: But when they saw the ... what you explained to them, and the benefits of it, people participated overwhelmingly, you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right. And people didn't feel resentful that their boss was asking them to do something.
MR. WASHAM: They didn't feel any resentment, you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right, exactly.
MR. WASHAM: 'Cause we were their peers, you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: And we were people they had elected as their union representatives and we had other people that was union members that would help do the solicitation so they wasn't no pressure. You explained to them and showed the benefits and how it helped and how it could help them.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: And, you know, hopefully, some of them were able to enjoy the benefits of those bonds when they retired.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MR. WASHAM: Beauty of compound interest adds up, you know... (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: That's true.
MR. WASHAM: ... over decades.
MR. MCDANIEL: That is true. That is true.
MR. WASHAM: So, hopefully, we played a good... had a good impact on people's lives here.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, Larry, thank you so much for... Thank you so much for taking time to talk to us about your life and your work and all the things you're involved in here in Oak Ridge.
MR. WASHAM: Well, I appreciate, you know... And, thing about it that I appreciate so much about living in Oak Ridge and my career here, there's so many good people that always was your mentors and helped you out so much, you know, like me from the labor movement, Bob Kyle, who's still living today. Charlie Robinson, who passed away, that was like Mr. Labor in this county for years. A lot of good people; people that was in management and scientific. There are a lot of good people in Oak Ridge. Oak Ridge was a great place to live.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: So, thank you for asking me to participate.
MR. MCDANIEL: Absolutely. Thank you.
[End of Interview]

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ORAL HISTORY OF LARRY WASHAM
Interviewed by Keith McDaniel
December 5, 2013
MR. MCDANIEL: This is Keith McDaniel and today is December 5, 2013, and I am at the home of Larry Washam here in Oak Ridge. Larry, thank you for taking time to talk with us.
MR. WASHAM: You're welcome. I'm glad to.
MR. MCDANIEL: You have been in Oak Ridge a long, long time and done a lot of different things and we're going to get to that, but let's start out with: Tell me where you were born and raised, something about your family.
MR. WASHAM: Well, I was born May 5, 1950, in the Harriman Hospital in Harriman, Tennessee. My parents, Paul and Anne Washam, lived in Kingston, so I grew up in Kingston, Tennessee. I started elementary school there in 1956. I went to junior high school in Kingston and I graduated from Roane County High School in Kingston in 1968.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, your dad, Paul Washam that sounds familiar. Of course, I grew up in Kingston. What did he do?
MR. WASHAM: My dad worked on the maintenance for the Roane County Board of Education at all the schools in Kingston.
MR. MCDANIEL: That's right. Ok.
MR. WASHAM: Him and my uncle, they... My dad started working for the schools in 1940 before he went into the Army during World War II.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, I remember his name. I just, you know, of course, Kingston is a small town...
MR. WASHAM: Small town. My family went back for... into the 1800s...
MR. MCDANIEL: Wow.
MR. WASHAM: So, it was... we been in that area for years.
MR. MCDANIEL: So, you graduated. Did you have brothers and sisters?
MR. WASHAM: Had one sister that's a younger sister than myself.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, when growing up, did you know very much about Oak Ridge? I mean, did you have friends whose parents worked here or anything like that?
MR. WASHAM: Didn't know a whole lot about Oak Ridge. I remember coming to Oak Ridge some in, I guess, my first memories maybe junior high school. 'Cause you come up and do some shopping. They had the mall, the outdoor mall in Oak Ridge then and I remember coming up to the National Shirt Shop.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. WASHAM: That was a store there. But you didn't know very much about Oak Ridge. Nobody talked about it, you know. I had people in school whose parents worked here, but in the '50s and even high school, nobody talked about what they did or anything.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure. Yeah, I remember the same thing. 'Course I'm a little bit younger than you, not a whole lot, I was born in '57, so in the '60s, I remember I had friends whose parents worked at Oak Ridge but I had no idea what they did or, you know, what it was, so... So, you graduated high school in, what year did you say?
MR. WASHAM: 1968.
MR. MCDANIEL: 1968 and at Roane County High School, and then what did you do?
MR. WASHAM: After graduation, I put in an application at Y-12 for the Training and Technology School. It was called TAT School.
MR. MCDANIEL: The TAT School.
MR. WASHAM: The TAT School. And I wanted to... I liked working with my hands due to, I guess, my father, you know, he did electrical work, carpentry work, he was a master craftsman. So, I signed up and got into the summer program of learning to be a machinist.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MR. WASHAM: So, I was there for around three months in the summer and then, in the fall, I was accepted, along with other people, into the full program.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: So I worked there, in the school, learning machinist trade and then was interviewed for a job as a machinist at Y-12 and was accepted. I was hired. But we waited into the school until our security clearance came through.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MR. WASHAM: So, at that time, it took approximately three months to get a security clearance.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MR. WASHAM: So, when our clearance came through, we would start to work the next Monday.
MR. MCDANIEL: Tell me about the TAT School. Tell me what you remember about that. Who do you remember were teaching and, you know, things such as that?
MR. WASHAM: Well, the people that I remember the most was Bob Cooley, he was from Kingston. He was the person over the machine training.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok, right, right...
MR. WASHAM: And Dwayne Hink. He was an instructor that was also from Kingston and Charlie Sparks. Charlie was from Powell area, he was an instructor. Part of the time, I was learning to be a machinist and then when they... I was going to go work in dimensional inspection department when I hired in. So, I went into training for that at the TAT School.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see.
MR. WASHAM: And that's... Charlie Sparks, actually, was a supervisor in the dimensional inspection group that influenced me to go into the inspection part of it.
MR. MCDANIEL: So, what is dimensional inspection?
MR. WASHAM: Dimensional inspect is where you check the parts that the machinists make out on -- using the lathes and milling machines and the different kinds of equipment, they make something, we check the dimensions to make sure ...
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, to make sure it's...
MR. WASHAM: ...in tolerance, that it fits the specifications.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MR. WASHAM: So, I did that from...
MR. MCDANIEL: So, you liked the TAT School? I mean, it was a good...
MR. WASHAM: Oh, I loved the TAT School.
MR. MCDANIEL: It was a good training program for you.
MR. WASHAM: It was a great school. A lot of the people that went through the school, it gave them a good opportunity. Most of the people were pretty much out of high school and several people had gotten out of the military that got into it. That was the start of making a great life for me was the TAT School in Oak Ridge, Tennessee.
MR. MCDANIEL: And that was about the same time that Y-12 was really kind of transitioning from chemical to machining. I mean, they were really beefing up their machining shop, their machine shop, weren't they?
MR. WASHAM: Yeah, and it'd already transferred up... transformed from a chemical to a machine operation, by the time I hired in. They were in the process of needing a lot more machinists. You know, it'd been up and down over the years the way the Cold War had developed.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: And when I hired in, they were in a, I guess you would describe it, as a mass hiring effort in the machine operations.
MR. MCDANIEL: Which was good for you, wasn't it?
MR. WASHAM: Great for me! (laughs) It was great for me. And I started there April 14, 1969.
MR. MCDANIEL: At Y-12.
MR. WASHAM: At Y-12 and I worked in dimensional inspection at that time and then I got laid off. In 1975, they had some lay-offs. I'd almost got laid off once before. Matter of fact, I was scheduled to get laid off and there's one person quit...
MR. MCDANIEL: Really.
MR. WASHAM: Which moved me -- I was the last person on the seniority list.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, wow.
MR. WASHAM: And then they recalled and brought about 150 workers back and I said, "Well, I've got it made, now."
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: And then, less than a year, I was laid off.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right? Oh, my.
MR. WASHAM: I left Oak Ridge, or Y-12 on a Friday afternoon. Started to work at K-25 on Monday.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did you really?
MR. WASHAM: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, this was '75, so who was the contractor then? Was it still Union Carbide?
MR. WASHAM: Union Carbide
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, so Union Carbide was running all the facilities still.
MR. WASHAM: They ran all three facilities then, at that time.
MR. MCDANIEL: So, you ... You left Y-12 on a Friday and started K-25 on a Monday? You couldn't ask for anything better, could you?
MR. WASHAM: No, you couldn't. I went down and I worked in the separations systems, which was the centrifuge project.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MR. WASHAM: It was a new way of enriching fuel grade uranium that was in early stages of that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: So I worked there for 49 weeks and got recalled to Y-12.
MR. MCDANIEL: Really?
MR. WASHAM: And I went back... When I went back in 1976, I was... I went into the machine shop.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did you?
MR. WASHAM: So, I was actually running the lathes and mills and making the parts instead of inspecting them.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MR. WASHAM: So, I did that through 1982, I believe. And then I went back in dimensional inspection and I was there 'til October, 1987. And October 5, 1987, I became a full-time business representative for the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MR. WASHAM: District Lodge 169 which, I was on a union leave-of-absence from October 5, 1987 until I retired in April of 2009. So...
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right? So, I want to get back... I want to get to that, but let's go back to your work at Y-12. They had, like you said, they had a lot of machinists that were working.
MR. WASHAM: A lot of machinists, yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: What... What was it, mostly? Was it mostly ... I don't know what's classified and what's not, but was it mostly like working on the secondaries or working on the stuff that Y-12 did for the nuclear stockpile?
MR. WASHAM: It was all for the ... In the weapons system, I guess you might say.
MR. MCDANIEL: In the weapons system.
MR. WASHAM: You know, a lot of the things we were making, you know, we had, maybe, names you called them inside the plant.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: But you really didn't know what, about...
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, you just knew... It was kind of a holdover from the old days of the Manhattan Project where everything was compartmentalized. You knew what you had to do but you didn't necessarily know how that fit into the big picture.
MR. WASHAM: Right, right. And it, you know, you might know bits and pieces.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: And, to be honest with you, most of the people, they really didn't care about that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: Now, it was a good place to work. It was good union jobs. We had good wages, good benefits and people were satisfied, pretty much, with it, you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, exactly. Now, did you do other kinds of things? I know that ... I know that Y-12, the machine shop there, did some, kind of, unique and different things, projects that came along. Were you involved in any, like... gosh, I can't remember the names of a couple of things...But...
MR. WASHAM: Well, you know, I couldn't say anything that was different from any other machinist, you know. I know there were some things that were unique, for example, actually, I didn't work on any of them, but the moon box was a big deal that the machinists made...
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, right, exactly...
MR. WASHAM: And they're on exhibit at the Smithsonian in Washington, D.C., in the Aerospace Museum.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure.
MR. WASHAM: And that, at the time, was quite an accomplishment. You know, it's made out of solid aluminum. It was one of the most difficult and precision machine jobs in the history of the world, at that particular time.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MR. WASHAM: And so, I've seen the boxes and knew people that worked on them and all, so that was...
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, Y-12 machine shop had a reputation and it was being, you know, marketed, really, as... with the reputation of, "If you can't get it done anywhere else, we can do it for you."
MR. WASHAM: Yeah. I can remember working out there; Jack Case was the plant manager at the time. Matter of fact, Jack Case was a machinist by trade. He started out as a machinist and he always had a good place in his heart for the machinists and, really, the machinists' union. And I remember they always used to say that, Jack said they received the smallest screw in the world from Japan and he took it in to one of our machine shops and we drilled a hole in it and threaded it and sent it back to them. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. WASHAM: You know, what anybody can do, we can do any kind of machining operation in the world, you know. But that was a memorable phrase I remember.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I'm sure. Well, so you did the machine shop work, well, the inspection and the machine ship work for a long time.
MR. WASHAM: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: How did things change, as a worker, when Union Carbide left and, you know, some of the other, newer contractors came in? Did it change for you guys very much or ...?
MR. WASHAM: Yeah, it started changing some. You know, over the years, I guess. See, 19--... I believe it was 1984's when Martin-Marietta gained the contract.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MR. WASHAM: And we had contract negotiations that year. Matter of fact, Martin-Marietta was seeking the unions out, you know, as we had dinner with them and things like that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, yeah, courting them, weren't they?
MR. WASHAM: Courting us before... This was before they were selected, you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: Along with some other employers. But when they got the contract, we had negotiations that year and we'd reached an agreement and then, when the agreement was being implemented, or actually, prior to that, Martin-Marietta was wanting to renege on a few things in the clause. We had to call all of our members back together 'cause they was a real threat that we may even strike over this, you know. And, finally, the company agreed with our position and everything was good because ... That set a bad tone after that. It was clearly -- it was on the wages, it was the percentage of increase the workers would get and the company was basically trying to say, well, it was only for the top rate there, but it wasn't. And, you know, we had clear notes and things. So, if finally got settled, but it set a bad tone.
MR. MCDANIEL: It did, between the union and Martin-Marietta.
MR. WASHAM: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah. Now, I would imagine while you were working there, you were a, I mean, you weren't working for the union, but you're a, you're actively involved in the union, weren't you?
MR. WASHAM: Oh, yeah, I became a union steward, oh, 1970. I was a young man, you know, '70, '71. A union steward for a while and then my area that I was in closed up that inspection area and I went to another one and they already had a steward, so, you know, I was just a good, dues-paying, loyal union member. And then, in 1981 -- this was after the 1981 strike, we had about a 10-week strike in '81.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MR. WASHAM: It was over some real important issues. Shift preference, how the workers were having to work different shifts and things like that -- working conditions. And then, I was asked to run as recording secretary for my local and I was elected recording secretary and I assumed office in January of 1982. Served in that office for two years, they were two year terms at that time.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MR. WASHAM: And then, I ran for president of my local and I won the election and served a two-year term and re-ran and was re-elected and I served almost all that term and that's when I became a business representative.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MR. WASHAM: And when you become the business representative, I had to resign as president 'cause I was full-time covering East Tennessee.
MR. MCDANIEL: So you went to work for the union at that time.
MR. WASHAM: I went to work for the union in October of 1987.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MR. WASHAM: And I was on a union leave-of-absence until I came back and retired.
MR. MCDANIEL: 'Til you came back to retire, sure.
MR. WASHAM: And I did come back to the plant a few times from '87 'til 9-... '91.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: As a representative of the employees.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see.
MR. WASHAM: In grievance hearings and some negotiations and things like that...
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: ... but not as a -- with my tools.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right, exactly...
MR. WASHAM: But I was on a leave, but I was working full-time for the union. I could have went back into the plant at any time when you're on a union leave-of-absence...
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MR. WASHAM: You stay on the seniority list and all that, but all your other benefits and all stopped from the time you went for the union.
MR. MCDANIEL: But you could go back and just pick up where you left off.
MR. WASHAM: I could go back and pick up where I left off and if I stayed there so many months, you go back and pick up all your other time...
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MR. WASHAM: But...
MR. MCDANIEL: You didn't do that?
MR. WASHAM: I didn't do that. I was... I retired from the machinists union. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, you said you were a business representative. What does that mean?
MR. WASHAM: You represent the members in your union, which mine was the machinists union and my local lodge was 480 in Oak Ridge down on 101 East Lincoln Road's where our union hall is.
MR. MCDANIEL: That's down near... down near Louisiana... off Louisiana Street.
MR. WASHAM: Right off Louisiana on the corner of Louisiana and Lincoln. We always used to refer to it behind Bruner's shopping center.
MR. MCDANIEL: Behind Bruner's, that's what I was about to say.
MR. WASHAM: Bruner's was a big store, grocery store during my era here.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah and there's... Speaking of, let's talk about that. There's three lodges down there, isn't there? Three union lodges?
MR. WASHAM: There's the machinists and then also the IBW is just right up the street from us.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that electrical?
MR. WASHAM: That's electrical. And I believe that's Local 270.
MR. MCDANIEL: And is there one behind there? There's not. There's just those two.
MR. WASHAM: Just those two.
MR. MCDANIEL: Just those two. That's right.
MR. WASHAM: And they also, at one time, there on Jefferson... Or, not Jefferson Avenue, but I guess that's Jefferson that's right down from the Boys' Club.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MR. WASHAM: Used to be the Oak Ridge Central Labor Council.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, right, right...
MR. WASHAM: And that was the home of the Atomic Trades and Labor Council which was the umbrella organization that represented all the employees at Y-12 and X-10.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: Now, the other union hall you might be talking about is one up in the old Grove Center, was the OCAW Local Lodge up there.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, yeah, there's one up... there was one up there, too.
MR. WASHAM: But the Central Labor Council was... had a ... played a big influence in Oak Ridge. When the facilities were organized in 1946 was Y-12... or not Y-12 but X-10. In 1950 was Y-12 and K-25 was organized around '46 and it was a battle... or competitive unions. It was AFL and the CIO.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: So that the AFL had the Central Labor Councils. So, that's a body that's the political and legislative arm of all the unions. And, at that time, we had union members on city council. We had one of our business agents early on, Livingstone, that ran for United States Congress.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. WASHAM: He didn't win. He was running against Howard Baker when Baker was a Congressman.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, he was a congressman.
MR. WASHAM: Before he was a Senator. And a lot of labor leaders in the community, at that time, in the early -- prior to me, you know -- I just think it's just real important that... See Oak Ridge had the eighth largest bus system in the United States.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MR. WASHAM: And we had a... A machinist had a local lodge that represented all the mechanics that worked on all those buses and all here in Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really?
MR. WASHAM: Then, we had another local lodge that represented workers, welders and things like that, that worked on all the houses and the buildings in Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: Then we had Local Lodge 480, which was my lodge that I eventually belonged to, that represented the employees at Y-12 and X-10. And then, as the city privatized, and the buses and the transportation -- those locals folded in to Local Lodge 480 in Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MR. WASHAM: And, eventually, you know, all those jobs went away.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: On the buses and on the buildings...
MR. MCDANIEL: And the building and all...
MR. WASHAM: The buildings and things like that and we stayed in existence. And then, eventually, another machinists' union lodge, 2709, which was the bowling facility, was there and then they merged into our local back some years ago now. It's just Lodge 480 in Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MR. WASHAM: But, so, I have been a member of the union since I was 19 years old and a machinist.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: Made a big influence on my life. I wouldn't a had nothing if it wasn't for the good union wages, good union jobs and really enjoyed living in Oak Ridge, you know. And we were community activists back then.
MR. MCDANIEL: I was going to ask about the relationship between the union, the union members and the community. Talk about that a little bit.
MR. WASHAM: We had a great relationship with, between the community and the unions. You know, over the years, especially from the machinists' union, we had people that served as the chairman of the Democratic Party. We were instrumental... At one time you could... I can remember, at one time, in the '70s and even the '80s, if you didn't have the endorsement of the labor unions, you couldn't get elected to an office in Anderson County.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: And... And, you know, our union density is down today where we don't have that role, but, you know, we had a big influence, you know. We had the Oak Ridge Central Labor Council, we endorsed candidates. Candidates would seek us out looking for endorsements.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, exactly. I had -- I can't remember who it was -- but, I interviewed somebody who was running for something and he said, "Yeah," he says, "I don't think the union liked me so I lost the election."
MR. WASHAM: You couldn't get elected if you didn't have support, but see, we looked after the benefit of the working people.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: We wanted to insure people had fair representation. You know, we promoted legislation through the Central Labor Council that would be favorable to working people. Not only union people, but working people in general, you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure...
MR. WASHAM: And I had the fortunate to be elected president of the Oak Ridge Central Labor Council in 1986 and then, in '87, by the end of the year, we had merged with the Knoxville, Oak Ridge. And one thing, in May of '87, lightning struck the main electrical box on our building. Our building was one of the old World War II buildings that was down close to the Boys' Club...
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right, sure.
MR. WASHAM: Right where the Oak Ridge Utility building is now.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah.
MR. WASHAM: And it burnt it to the ground.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. WASHAM: And so, we eventually sold the property and all. The Boys' Club got that property now and things... But we had a lot of influence, labor did. And, matter of fact, for example, when we'd be on a strike.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: It was unbelievable the amount of support that the community showed to us.
MR. MCDANIEL: Really?
MR. WASHAM: Oh, absolutely. You know, when we'd be on the picket lines, businesses would bring us out food, pizzas, just all kinds of, the community support was just wonderful.
MR. MCDANIEL: Really?
MR. WASHAM: Because we had so many people that lived here in Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, exactly.
MR. WASHAM: And it was a just cause. It wasn't because we were greedy. It was a just cause of better wages, working conditions and benefits for our members. And that's why Oak Ridge had such a high standard of living for so many years. They were good, blue collar jobs.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: And you also had a highly educated technical and scientific community here. And the people that were the...
MR. MCDANIEL: And they understood that they could not do their job unless you were able to do your job.
MR. WASHAM: They understood it. It was unbelievable that a lot of the friends that labor had from the scientific community and from people that were nationally known in their field of work but they cared for the average working guy.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: You know, and the ones that had the least empathy for people was wanna-be, mid-level managers.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right? Yeah.
MR. WASHAM: They thought that they, you know, "I've got power over people" and all, but the people that were really nice people.
MR. MCDANIEL: That didn't have ... The people that didn't have to prove anything to anybody.
MR. WASHAM: They didn't have to prove nothing.
MR. MCDANIEL: They supported you.
MR. WASHAM: They were world-renowned in their ... and they were very, yeah, pro-union type people and they were just good people.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: And we had a great relationship with those folks.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MR. WASHAM: But we would...
MR. MCDANIEL: Anybody in particular that you can remember? I know I'm putting you on the spot, but...
MR. WASHAM: You know, I can't... I used to go to church with a guy, elderly fellow, Dr. Barton. He was a great person. Him was a great person and his wife, Ruth Barton. A lot of folks. Jack Case was always, you know, even though he was... He was a friend. He knew what the working guy did 'cause he was a working guy early on.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure.
MR. WASHAM: And he did a lot for this community. They was a lot of people that were ... I was always involved in the Democratic Party and, see, most of those people, at that time, they were all members... or good, loyal Democrats. You know, they wanted to see everybody do good.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: Not just ... Today, the one percent, you know...
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, both the Democrat and the Republican party are not what they were 30 years ago or 40 years ago.
MR. WASHAM: No. There're too many corporatists.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, sure.
MR. WASHAM: You know, looking after the interests of the corporations and America goes down, Oak Ridge's gone down. Just look at Oak Ridge now compared to what it used to be, with K-25 shutting down, the loss of so many jobs at Y-12, X-10 and I'm talking about good, blue collar jobs.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MR. WASHAM: The city had a better tax base, you know, you had nice parks, recreation. Oak Ridge was everybody's dream to live in...
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: ... when I was growing up. But now, people look at it in a different light.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: You know, I can drive down the street and you see grass growing in the sidewalks and it never used to be like that here. But we had... People had pride in their work. You had a lot of skilled people in this town. I can remember, you know, Oak Ridge being called the Atomic Energy Capital of the World.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: And there's more PhD's in the city limits of Oak Ridge, per capita, than anywhere on the face of the earth.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MR. WASHAM: And they cared about things, but, you know, things change.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: And you can't live in the past.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, exactly.
MR. WASHAM: It's just... You hate to see a town lose so many good-paying jobs.
MR. MCDANIEL: The ... You mentioned earlier about the relationship that the union had with Union Carbide and you said that was generally good, wasn't it?
MR. WASHAM: Yeah. We had battles...
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: But, you know, we had a few strikes. 1981 was like a 10-week strike.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: It was basically a lot of issues that was over the working conditions. Shift work. Shifts and stuff.
MR. MCDANIEL: Who was the... Who was the plant manager at that time? Do you remember?
MR. WASHAM: I believe in 1981, I think it was still Jack Case in '81.
MR. MCDANIEL: Was it Jack Case? Ok.
MR. WASHAM: And then, when we went on strike in '87, it was... Jack had already retired. I got a blank, but I can see him right now.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right...
MR. WASHAM: Gordon Fee.
MR. MCDANIEL: Was it Gordon?
MR. WASHAM: Gordon Fee in '87. And, matter of fact, that was a strike that ... Over some issues that shouldn't have ever taken place. But Martin-Marietta was really pushing these issues and they haven't been one since. That was the last strike. It's been 26 years ago now and... which, you know, nobody ever likes to have a dispute, you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure.
MR. WASHAM: But sometimes, you got to stand up for the right thing, you know, to represent your members. And our membership was always overwhelmingly, I mean, overwhelmingly supportive of those actions, you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right... I would imagine, though, with Jack Case and Gordon Fee, I mean, they were probably both caught in the middle, weren't they?
MR. WASHAM: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: I mean, you know, they had their superiors, you know.
MR. WASHAM: Yeah, they probably were, you know, on things. A lot of times, it's a more complicated process of how do you get to an agreement than ...
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: And after the '87 strike, Bob Kyle was president of the metal trades and he got the federal mediation service and the company put on some training that really helped. And it was to understand how decisions were made on the union part and how decisions were made by the employer and it really helped relations after that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did it?
MR. WASHAM: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, when you came to Oak Ridge, did you live in Kingston or did you live in Oak Ridge?
MR. WASHAM: When I first started working here, I lived in Kingston.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: And I lived in Midtown for a while. And then, I moved to Oak Ridge in April of 1981.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok, I see.
MR. WASHAM: And I moved here and I moved in over at the Tara Hills apartment complex.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MR. WASHAM: And I ended up living there for 10 years.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did you really?
MR. WASHAM: I didn't plan on being there but just a few months...
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure...
MR. WASHAM: You know, I guess the way my activities, you know, I didn't need a whole lot in a home. Then I bought my residence here in 1990.
MR. MCDANIEL: Uh-huh, right, right...
MR. WASHAM: And I kept it even though I had to move away a couple of times.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure, I understand.
MR. WASHAM: For example, in 19--... In February of 1981, I went on what's called the grand lodge staff. I went to work for the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers. It's our international union, as a Grand Lodge representative that was an organizer. I worked all over the United States and Canada. I was the guy that would go in and start a union at a place that didn't have representation there.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: So, from February of '91 until, like, June of '93, you'd be on the road for, usually a minimum two weeks at a time, then you'd come back, and I'd come back to Oak Ridge. And then, in June of '93 they moved what's called your home station, home assignment, was moved to Chicago, Illinois.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MR. WASHAM: And I had the responsibility of organizing in the metropolitan Chicago area and the state of Wisconsin. So, I moved there and I lived part of the time in Arlington Heights and Mount Prospect which are the northwest suburbs, close, relatively close to O'Hare Airport.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: And that's where our general vice president's office was. I was working out of that office in Des Plaines, Illinois. So my assignments would take me all over the United States and Canada.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure...
MR. WASHAM: I went to Canada on some assignments to help the Canadians. Then, in '97, it was probably around September of '97, they moved my home station back to Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really.
MR. WASHAM: And my international president said, "I'm going to need you back home," he said. "Because, Larry," he said, "you're running the biggest campaign," said, "you're going to be all over the United States so it really doesn't matter ..."
MR. MCDANIEL: Where you are.
MR. WASHAM: "...where you are, so you're coming back home." To your real home. (laughter) That was good for me because ...
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure. I understand.
MR. WASHAM: So, I lived here and then I worked all over the country, you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MR. WASHAM: But then, in 2005, I was promoted to the Director of Organizing for the machinists' union. I had the responsibility of organizing all over the United States for now, I had to take up residence in the Washington, D.C. area then.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see.
MR. WASHAM: So, I moved to Crofton, Maryland. That's 12 miles west of Annapolis, Maryland, and 25 miles from the heart of...
MR. MCDANIEL: D.C.?
MR. WASHAM: ...D.C.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: And our international headquarters was just right outside the Beltway in Upper Marlboro, Maryland. So, I started as the director in May, 2005, and then I retired first of January, 2009.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MR. WASHAM: So, I actually went out early. I mean, I really loved the job I had. I mean, the union's been my whole life, you know, helping people. And I had to have lung reduction surgery in 2006 and they had to remove part of my upper and lower right lobe. Then, a year later, my diaphragm froze, or it was paralyzed and when it paralyzes, it works in reverse and so...
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, goodness.
MR. WASHAM: So I had to have surgery and go in. I've still got stitches just all around that diaphragm to help hold it in the right place. So, in the summer of 2008, finally, my surgeon and my pulmonary doctor, which is at Georgetown University in D.C., who, they saved my life. That surgeon saved my life.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: They finally said, "Larry," said, "You need to retire." And I said, "Well, I love what I'm doing." And the doctor -- pulmonary doctor -- finally told me, said, "You know, Larry," said, "There's cemeteries full of good people with good intentions," said, "You want to live or die?"
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: In the balance of scales, I said, "I want to live." (laughs) You know, so... And I retired at the end of the year.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did you?
MR. WASHAM: And I, you know, the organization was great...
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah.
MR. WASHAM: ... to me...
MR. MCDANIEL: Was it? That's good.
MR. WASHAM: ...on that... And I...
MR. MCDANIEL: Let's talk a little bit about... 'scuse me, didn't mean to interrupt you... What's the difference between the union when you were working and, like say, the unions in Oak Ridge now?
MR. WASHAM: Well, it's hard for me to say since I'm retired, you know. I still ... I'll go to my Lodge meetings when I'm in town and, you know, things have changed so much. I really don't... I like to go to them for the... to socialize and listen, if I can add to anything to it, I will.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MR. WASHAM: But, you know, it's hard for me to say because times changes, conditions changes, peoples in the different positions have changed.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MR. WASHAM: But it's ... It's still the best thing that the...
MR. MCDANIEL: I mean, union's still strong in Oak Ridge, isn't it?
MR. WASHAM: Yeah, yeah...
MR. MCDANIEL: I mean the unions are.
MR. WASHAM: And one thing that I've really enjoyed, too, with... is we have started up the retirees club for the machinists' union in Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right? Ok.
MR. WASHAM: We'll have anywhere from 50 to 75 show up at our union hall.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: And we meet the third Tuesday of the month. And that's a lot of fun because you reminisce with the people that you actually worked with.
MR. MCDANIEL: Of course, of course...
MR. WASHAM: But we're down now to where we only have a little over, maybe around 650 retirees in the machinists' union.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really?
MR. WASHAM: And the rest of them have passed away.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, sure.
MR. WASHAM: You know, lot of illnesses. A lot of different cancers and things from working out at the plants.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: So, our purpose of our club is to socialize with one another but we also bring in speakers that'll try to address benefit... the needs of retirees.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: And let them know that if they're by themselves, or whatever, you know, if they need a ride to the ... we'll have somebody there to look after 'em and what. We've had doctors come in speak, you know, Department of Labor.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: We've had them there on a couple occasions that talk with 'em about the illnesses related out there and about the compensation packages and try to help 'em on things like that and...
MR. MCDANIEL: Let me ask you... Speaking of that, is there any... Is there any... I know in any kind of industrial situation, whether it's at Oak Ridge or some other, a chemical company or some other thing like that, there's historically been illnesses related to the work.
MR. WASHAM: Yeah. Right.
MR. MCDANIEL: To the work that's being done. Is Oak Ridge different? I mean, is it... Is there something specific about what was done at Oak Ridge that would create a different kind of, unique kind of illnesses?
MR. WASHAM: Well, I guess working in the different kinds of materials and stuff.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: The average person would never be exposed to that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: And there's an organization called the Cold War Patriots...
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: ...that promote, you know, health and safety. But we started putting a lot of emphasis on health and safety in 1984, during contract negotiations, from the union standpoint, and was able to get some full-time health and safety committees.
MR. MCDANIEL: That was about the time that the DOE office here, when Joe LaGrone and really, he put a big emphasis on the environmental clean-up efforts in Oak Ridge as well.
MR. WASHAM: Yeah, yeah... And, see, they had the deal about where they couldn't find all the ...
MR. MCDANIEL: Mercury...
MR. WASHAM: ...mercury out there. It caused Congressional hearings on that. And, you know, I guess, you know, you look back: The nuclear industry was in its infancy, you know, when the Manhattan Project started up. And, you know, I'm just theorizing, you know, in any kind of industries or when there's a war going on, you know, there's a collateral damage, they say, which is a terrible thing but...
MR. MCDANIEL: It was a combination of not knowing and ignoring.
MR. WASHAM: Ignoring. And see, they used to, in the health and safety meetings they used to have out there, you know, they'd tell you you were safer there than you were in your own homes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: And it was a propaganda.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: You know, there were signs all over the place about safety and all and a lot of people looked at it as a joke, in a way, you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: And, as history shows, look how many people have collected the monetary compensation and the health benefits with the medical cards for care and all.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure...
MR. WASHAM: And these people were dedicated to the defense of the United States.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: You know, they ...
MR. MCDANIEL: They should be taken care of.
MR. WASHAM: They should be taken care of.
MR. MCDANIEL: Just like our veterans should be taken care of.
MR. WASHAM: Just like our veterans. They paid the price.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: And a lot of people didn't ask questions.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: And, you know, we found out, once we started putting a real emphasis on health and safety, that's when things started going for the better on it, you know, and... Somebody would leak a study that'd been done. You'd ask, you know, "Is anything? Studies being done on that?" "Well, no, ..." Then somebody'd leak something and they'd been doing studies where that people that worked in certain locations would have a higher rate than the general population for different cancers and things like that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, there was a reason that they all had to wear radiation badges. I mean, they weren't just for...ornament. It wasn't a brooch! (laughter)
MR. WASHAM: They weren't for ... It wasn't a Christmas tree ornament! (laughs)
MR. MCDANIEL: Exactly.
MR. WASHAM: That's right. You know, we had to go down and take body counts.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah.
MR. WASHAM: In the body count where they'd assay the different radioactive material would be in your body and all and they'd always, if you had high levels, they'd say, "Well, that person's hot," you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MR. WASHAM: We had to move them out of what they referred to as an exotic area into a non-exotic area. But, you know, things changed, and all and, hopefully, it's a much safer place out there. I'm sure it is than...
MR. MCDANIEL: Than it was...
MR. WASHAM: Than it was because the emphasis on the health and safety.
MR. MCDANIEL: As they say, they couldn't get away with some of the stuff today that they did back then.
MR. WASHAM: No.
MR. MCDANIEL: They just couldn't. Nobody would allow it.
MR. WASHAM: No, no. No, no. And, you know, in people's mortality has increased.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: Nationwide. And I'll tell you where that, you know, when I's a kid, a person my age today would be considered you've got one foot in the grave...
MR. MCDANIEL: Old...
MR. WASHAM: You're ready to go, you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Exactly.
MR. WASHAM: That's not the case anymore.
MR. MCDANIEL: No, it's not. It's not.
MR. WASHAM: But I really enjoyed being in Oak Ridge. I like living here and that's why, even though when my home station was moved to Chicago and then to the D.C. area, I always maintained my place here. Now, I'd come back here on holidays, vacations...
MR. MCDANIEL: 'Cause you knew one of these days you were going to retire, you were going to come back here.
MR. WASHAM: I was going to come back here. And I had a lot of people say, "Why in the world would you want to come back here?" (laughter) And 'specially I got a lot of that when Tennessee was making the national news on a lot of these laws they were trying...
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, yeah, right.
MR. WASHAM: You know, it was just... a lot of cra... the Tea Party and stuff.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, yeah.
MR. WASHAM: So, a lot of people said, "Why would you want to go back to that for?" you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Uh-huh, right. Sure, sure...
MR. WASHAM: And see, in Anderson County, you know, if you think back, you know, you read back historically, you know, it was always a great place and then, you had certain pockets like, you know... And Clinton was the first school that integrated in the South and the crazies blew it up.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MR. WASHAM: They blew it up.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: So, you know, you had some of the most intelligent people in the world but you drive 15, 20 minutes and you were in the middle of Appalachia and very racist places. Of all the places, I guess I worked all over the United States, Tennessee's known today as one of the most racist places in America.
MR. MCDANIEL: Wow.
MR. WASHAM: That's why people say, "Why do you want to go back to that?" you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: I said, "Well, its home."
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, and Oak Ridge is different. It's always been different than the, you know...
MR. WASHAM: Yeah, yeah. Oak Ridge has. That's why I always liked Oak Ridge. Oak Ridge was always different, you're right about that, now. You really are. Oak Ridge was always a progressive city.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah.
MR. WASHAM: And was a, 'specially during my lifetime, was always ahead of the curve on a progressive community.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure, exactly.
MR. WASHAM: And I liked Oak Ridge, you know, and so...
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, you know, just like you, I can remember, you know, Mom and Dad piling us in the Impala and driving to, on Friday night and going to Shoney's and walking the shopping center, you know, so, it was ... It was a treat for us to come to Oak Ridge.
MR. WASHAM: Oh, yeah, when I got out of high school, you know, the big thing then was the muscle cars and you would circle Shoney's. See, at that time, you know, Shoney's had the drive-in restaurant.
MR. MCDANIEL: And it was next door to where the Shoney's is now.
MR. WASHAM: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: It's ... I remember when they built the new one right next door to the old one or something, so...
MR. WASHAM: Oh, yeah, it was the place, you know...
MR. MCDANIEL: It was the place.
MR. WASHAM: ...Cruise... You had your car. I 'member cruisin' it ...
MR. MCDANIEL: Well Oak Ridge, from Kingston, Oak Ridge was a good date place. I mean, you know, that's... If you didn't go to Knoxville you went to Oak Ridge, you know, so...
MR. WASHAM: Oh, yeah, that's where you went.
MR. MCDANIEL: Exactly.
MR. WASHAM: And it was a good place, and a it was a good place for young people to meet other young people, you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: A lot of people, that's where they met their girlfriends, future wives and all. That was the Shoney's area. Then, one of the big deals was going to the drive-in at the ... the drive-in out there on Illinois Avenue.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, exactly.
MR. WASHAM: And that was big.
MR. MCDANIEL: That was. I remember having first McDonald's hamburger in Oak Ridge.
MR. WASHAM: Yeah, yeah...
MR. MCDANIEL: I don't remember, maybe it was 19 cents or something like that. (laughter)
MR. WASHAM: Oh, yeah. See, you had McDonald's. You know, I never did go to the Wildcat Den or anything but I had a lot of friends that I worked with would talk about when they were teenagers that was...
MR. MCDANIEL: That's where they went.
MR. WASHAM: Yeah, and that was really a progressive deal, you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: I'd heard them, you know, talk about, you know, where they'd have the dances and Oak Ridge was real noted for a lot of good high school rock and roll bands.
MR. MCDANIEL: That's true.
MR. WASHAM: They'd have, you know, the Battle of the Bands and things like that which was good.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, yeah...
MR. WASHAM: And you had everything you needed at one time in Oak Ridge, you know. It was a great community. It was a safe community. When I first moved to Oak Ridge, you know, it was virtually crime-free, you know. No crime. You could lay...
MR. MCDANIEL: And this was... I mean, this was ... This was later on. This wasn't anywhere near the Manhattan Project, this was the...
MR. WASHAM: No, this was...
MR. MCDANIEL: '70s, you know.
MR. WASHAM: Oh, yeah. It was a great community. The swimming pool, you know, it was a great place to go for young people.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: There was a lot for young people to do at that time, you know, and, again, I didn't move here 'til '81, but, you know, I was in and out of Oak Ridge almost every day...
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: ...working here from '69 and then, you know, when I got out of high school, you know, you'd come to Oak Ridge to ... I guess what I come to Oak Ridge, was looking, trying to find, meet a good looking girl.
MR. MCDANIEL: A good-looking Oak Ridge girl, that's right.
MR. WASHAM: You know, had the muscle car and I'd cruise Shoney's hope maybe I could meet the right one or something, you know. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MR. WASHAM: So it was... It was a lot of fun.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, good, good...
MR. WASHAM: You had a lot of... People socialized back then, you know. You didn't have the computers so people went places to...
MR. MCDANIEL: To meet.
MR. WASHAM: To meet and to talk and share your ideas.
MR. MCDANIEL: And get in trouble.
MR. WASHAM: Get in trouble if you could, you know. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: Exactly.
MR. WASHAM: But it was... It was a great place. I enjoyed it. And during my time here involved with the union, you know, we was very civic-oriented, too. You know, we used to help a lot back in the, 'specially the early to middle 80s, with the Special Olympics.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MR. WASHAM: Things like that, you know. We'd help people that would do it. We had a group of musicians that had a band, Wendell Cook and some guys, they would play music...
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, wow.
MR. WASHAM: We did a lot, tried to promote the community. We always was huge supporters of the United Way.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really?
MR. WASHAM: And, I forget now exactly what year, it was in the early '80s, so the... We convinced the company if they really want to get participation, then let the unions run it for the bargaining.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see.
MR. WASHAM: And our contributions was astronomical when that took place, you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really?
MR. WASHAM: 'Cause the company would allow us to have a meeting with different groups of employees during working hours at the plant. And when they'd hear the good things that it did coming from their peers...
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: ... they responded.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: You know, it wasn't like your boss coming up saying, "Here, fill this card out. We need a donation."
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: And it evolved and we had people in the management positions, upper level management, that saw the benefit of it, too. So, it was a joint-type efforts, which is good because people were getting helped that needs these, that needed the agencies and the help of them.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: That was the whole goal was to help as many people as we could.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right, exactly...
MR. WASHAM: So that worked out good. The same thing went with the bond drive. We used to have savings bond drives.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did you?
MR. WASHAM: And when the company agreed to let the union do the bond drive for the hourly employees, the participation, again, went up astronomically, you know. And it wasn't like, you know, you was being forced, you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MR. WASHAM: You had the opportunity. It was free will, you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: But when they saw the ... what you explained to them, and the benefits of it, people participated overwhelmingly, you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right. And people didn't feel resentful that their boss was asking them to do something.
MR. WASHAM: They didn't feel any resentment, you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right, exactly.
MR. WASHAM: 'Cause we were their peers, you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: And we were people they had elected as their union representatives and we had other people that was union members that would help do the solicitation so they wasn't no pressure. You explained to them and showed the benefits and how it helped and how it could help them.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. WASHAM: And, you know, hopefully, some of them were able to enjoy the benefits of those bonds when they retired.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MR. WASHAM: Beauty of compound interest adds up, you know... (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: That's true.
MR. WASHAM: ... over decades.
MR. MCDANIEL: That is true. That is true.
MR. WASHAM: So, hopefully, we played a good... had a good impact on people's lives here.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, Larry, thank you so much for... Thank you so much for taking time to talk to us about your life and your work and all the things you're involved in here in Oak Ridge.
MR. WASHAM: Well, I appreciate, you know... And, thing about it that I appreciate so much about living in Oak Ridge and my career here, there's so many good people that always was your mentors and helped you out so much, you know, like me from the labor movement, Bob Kyle, who's still living today. Charlie Robinson, who passed away, that was like Mr. Labor in this county for years. A lot of good people; people that was in management and scientific. There are a lot of good people in Oak Ridge. Oak Ridge was a great place to live.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. WASHAM: So, thank you for asking me to participate.
MR. MCDANIEL: Absolutely. Thank you.
[End of Interview]