Pelosi is teaching Trump a painful political lesson. Campaigning is one thing - Trump has proven he can campaign. This isn't a campaign. This is institutional, procedural, political. It's an entirely different battlefield. She's a crocodile that's dragging him further away from land.

(post shortened)

Pelosi is THE queen of the swamp. ol' Nancy has been involved in politics since 1961. She was first elected to public office in 1987. If anyone knows how to play hardball, it's ol' Nancy. The resist movement, and old style politics, are alive and well.
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What's the status of the State of the Union address? Is it on or off? What's the latest? I just saw a headline in passing (no cite) that said Nancy Pelosi wouldn't let WH staffers in the Congressional chamber to do a walk through.
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__________________
"If we're not supposed to dance, why all this music?" Gregory Orr

What's the status of the State of the Union address? Is it on or off? What's the latest? I just saw a headline in passing (no cite) that said Nancy Pelosi wouldn't let WH staffers in the Congressional chamber to do a walk through.

The White House is forging ahead with State of the Union preparations despite no commitment from House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) to hold the annual address at the Capitol, further escalating the political tit-for-tat between the two leaders as the federal government remains partially shuttered.

President Trump is preparing two versions of the speech ó one that could be delivered in Washington and another that would be given somewhere else in the country, depending on the circumstance, according to a senior White House official. Meanwhile, the administration is trying to conduct advance work to prepare for an address in the House chamber, originally scheduled for Jan. 29, even though Pelosi has the power to determine whether Trump can do so.

Pelosi is THE queen of the swamp. ol' Nancy has been involved in politics since 1961. She was first elected to public office in 1987. If anyone knows how to play hardball, it's ol' Nancy. The resist movement, and old style politics, are alive and well.

You know what? You've long been an insufferable fool and I've long wondered why you haven't been banned. Now you're just trolling for the sheer joy of displaying your incredible stupidity. Until TPTB see fit to actually remove you from this site, I'm going to do what I am now suggesting others do: remove your inane posts from visibility. And good riddance.
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You know what? You've long been an insufferable fool and I've long wondered why you haven't been banned. Now you're just trolling for the sheer joy of displaying your incredible stupidity. Until TPTB see fit to actually remove you from this site, I'm going to do what I am now suggesting others do: remove your inane posts from visibility. And good riddance.

Oh No! How am I going to get my usual seven hours of sleep tonight if I don't have your internet blather to put me to sleep? How's everything in Beijing, China?
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Pelosi is awesome, and I’ve long been mystified, and frustrated, that she hasn’t gotten more credit as a trailblazer (and extremely effective Speaker). We still haven’t had a woman president, and that’s not right; but we’ve had a female Speaker and now have one again, and that’s a HUGE deal.
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I gotta clap for Pelosi if she goes through with canceling the SoU address. Also I appreciate her refusing to buckle to Trump’s wall demand. I wish she had taken a similar pro illegal immigration stance before this, but Trump has clearly brought out the best in her.
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I gotta clap for Pelosi if she goes through with canceling the SoU address. Also I appreciate her refusing to buckle to Trumpís wall demand. I wish she had taken a similar pro illegal immigration stance before this, but Trump has clearly brought out the best in her.

Being against a moronic wall is not the same as being ďpro illegal immigration,Ē and you know it.
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I gotta clap for Pelosi if she goes through with canceling the SoU address. Also I appreciate her refusing to buckle to Trumpís wall demand. I wish she had taken a similar pro illegal immigration stance before this, but Trump has clearly brought out the best in her.

Hi, Will. Nobody knows whether this is intended to be sarcastic. Or cares.
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I must note that Pelosi is an anarchist’s dream compared to Ryan and Boehner. Both of whom buckled to Obama’s demands after a few days max. Perhaps Ryan left his copy of Atlas Shrugged next to the gavel.
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You go, Nancy! I wouldn't let that flaming asshole into any place I was in charge of either.

I'm not convinced that canceling the SOTU speech is all that great an idea. I can see why she might do it. It hits him where it hurts (he loves attention), emphasizes the extraordinary nature of the shutdown, and avoids giving additional authority to what is undoubtedly be a spewing of falsehoods and partisan attacks. But no matter what she says he's going to give a SOTU speech anyway, just not in the chambers, and its going to get plenty of publicity if for no other reason than the controversy surrounding it. And while giveing Trump a sick burn Trump is very satisfying to the base, to others I think it looks petty, and she opens herself up to additional attacks.

"The SOTU is an American tradition. Why does Pelosi hate American Traditions?"

"The SOTU address is required by the constitution*, Pelosi is committing an unconstitutional act. Lock her up."

I think she is probably better off trying to maintain her position as the adult in the room, and not getting dragged down the Trumps level. Let him give his speech to Congress, and then Tear it a new one in the Rebuttal. But Pelosi has more political savvy in her little finger than I do in my entire body so I'm not going to second guess her too much.

*yes, I realize that the constitution doesn't give a time table or require it be given in person, but there is just enough truthiness to the argument to convince those not paying attention.
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Pelosi has told him he can't do something, and is sticking to her guns. If more people, starting with his parents, had done this, he might not be the asshole he is today, and the world would be better off.
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I think that it is wonderful that Trump is, for once, facing pushback. I have a new respect for Nancy Pelosi. Cheers, everyone; this is the beginning of 2 years of fighters telling that spoiled asshole "no".
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Last edited by bobot; 01-23-2019 at 04:58 PM.
Reason: not pusback. That's another thing

Being against a moronic wall is not the same as being ďpro illegal immigration,Ē and you know it.

Of course he and other conservatives know it; they just don't want to engage in an honest debate. Being binary relieves them of that intellectual burden.

What we're seeing is that there will never be anything progressives or even centrists can do to please the MAGAbots because they believe it's their country. That's what white christian nationalism is, an ideology that involves defining what America is, who rightfully owns it, and who rightfully sits at the apex of power -- and who doesn't. And I've got news for anyone who's not part of Trumpland: in their eyes, you're not a real America. There is nothing to negotiate with you. There is nothing to talk about. And they're tear down the all of the institutions they hate (but that the rest of us actually use and benefit from) just to demonstrate that point.

You cannot fucking compromise with these people, so let's stop compromising. And Mitch McConnell has shown, we cannot govern with these people, so let's stop trying that futile shit as well. All we have left is our raw power of the people. All we have left is the power to resist, and the power to make it known we're not taking this shit.
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Please, please, please, dont do this. I beg you and all liberals, to not hold her (or anyone else) up as a paragon. Ideas, not people, are what should be the foundation of any sustainable viewpoint. Let the Pubbies do the hero worship (Reagan. Trump) thing, and instead focus on ideas like fairness, wealth inequality, voter equality, and adherence to the ideas of checks and balances.

My reply is simply

The enemy of my enemy, is my friend.

And we don't need any Pubbies and "conservatives" and righties concern trolling us with any sanctimonious bullshit.

You seem to have forgotten that there was a deal of 25 billion for the wall in exchange for DACA that Trump said he would sign. He than refused to sign it after it passed both chambers of Congress because right-wing loudmouths complained.
He can't be trusted to keep his side of a deal.

ďI am proud to shut down the government for border security, Chuck, because the people of this country donít want criminals and people that have lots of problems and drugs pouring into our country. So I will take the mantle. I will be the one to shut it down. Iím not going to blame you for itÖ. I will take the mantle of shutting down.Ē - Trump

And his word was NEVER worth a fuck anyway. This shutdown belongs to Trump and his boy McConnell.
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You all sound like a bunch of fucking Republicans; we must line up behind the leader and anyone who questions her is the enemy. Let's check back in a week and see if public opinion starts to blame the Democrats for the shutdown and Trump's approval starts to creep up.

They got that "motherfucker" from AOC in there too. Oh poor fucking snowflakes.

I thought they were the tough guys, the "Fuck you and fuck your feelings" guys, the
"Tell it like it is plain talk no more PC" guys. The (Trump) "grab 'em by the pussy" guys, the (Dick Cheney on the Senate floor "Go fuck yourself" guys, the "bodyslam reporters" guys, the (Trump) "beat the shit out of them" guys.

You know what? You've long been an insufferable fool and I've long wondered why you haven't been banned. Now you're just trolling for the sheer joy of displaying your incredible stupidity. Until TPTB see fit to actually remove you from this site, I'm going to do what I am now suggesting others do: remove your inane posts from visibility. And good riddance.

As the Shutdown was going on, Nancy Pelosi asked me to give the State of the Union Address. I agreed. She then changed her mind because of the Shutdown, suggesting a later date. This is her prerogative - I will do the Address when the Shutdown is over. I am not looking for an....
....alternative venue for the SOTU Address because there is no venue that can compete with the history, tradition and importance of the House Chamber. I look forward to giving a “great” State of the Union Address in the near future!
3:18 PM - 24 Jan 2019

Mr. President, I hope by saying ďnear futureĒ you mean you will support the House-passed package to #EndTheShutdown that the Senate will vote on tomorrow. Please accept this proposal so we can re-open government, repay our federal workers and then negotiate our differences.

Why would she? It is the easiest political path forward for her. Not to say she shouldn’t get a round of applause. Most folks paying attention are behind her including the key factions that give her power.

Also, it is pretty easy for Trump despite the media coverage (that most ignore anyway). The factions that put him in power are still behind him.

There are many factions in American society. There is no earthly reason they should be joined under one leviathan state. There may be some things the states could agree on like an Articles or Confederation style constitution, so total dissolution may not be the only solution.

The solution truly is decentralization of political power. People fight this because of their historical misunderstandings but reality has been smacking them in the face daily for over two years. If you haven’t learned his lesson yet you sit in one of four camps. I will explain the three camps and grade them on basic decency.

Camp Society: You don’t pay much attention to politics, especially national politics. You may or may not vote but if you do it’s based on an ad, name recognition or partial
debate viewing. You don’t have much of an opinion on decentralization beyond common sense acknowledgement that it is just. Grade: A

Camp Crony: Your personal well-being is closely associated with the health of the national government and this clouds your ability to view decentralization as a positive good for society. Grade: C-

Camp Plain Dumb: You are plain dumb. You pay attention to politics but for base animalistic reasons. You follow politics like professional wrestling and do not apply reason to your political analysis. Grade: D (for Dumb)

Camp Totalitarian: You don’t believe people in other cultures, even in far-off geographical regions (I.e you live in upper Midwest and they live in South) should live in a way that you don’t approve of. Grade: F

This is the dilemma. Those in Camp Totalitarian love to go into the media, public education establishment and “public policy”. They devote their lives to it. A simple public choice style observer would point out that this is a big reason why the government doesn’t allow political decentralization.
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There are many factions in American society. There is no earthly reason they should be joined under one leviathan state. There may be some things the states could agree on like an Articles or Confederation style constitution, so total dissolution may not be the only solution.

Great, so if you don't like immigrants build your own damn wall around your own house, and leave us out of it. All hail Pelosi, defender of libertarianism.
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The solution truly is decentralization of political power. People fight this because of their historical misunderstandings but reality has been smacking them in the face daily for over two years.

Decentralization to what? The power of the states is decentralized from federal power already. How do you propose to decentralize further?

The problem with government handling decentralization is whatever party is in power will ensure the other party loses power, such as through gerrymandering. The EU already favors letting individual member states make their own decisions, and only to call on the EU when matters get too complicated. They had to step in to bail out Greece, which the other member states weren't too thrilled about, and England wants a divorce. Decentralization definitely has its drawbacks. Some times, voter stupidity isn't to blame.

Political decentralization can also happen without government action, such as when blacks moved from the south to escape Jim Crow laws. I for one don't want to move to another country to escape Trump.
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Camp Society: You donít pay much attention to politics, especially national politics. You may or may not vote but if you do itís based on an ad, name recognition or partial
debate viewing. You donít have much of an opinion on decentralization beyond common sense acknowledgement that it is just. Grade: A

Camp Crony: Your personal well-being is closely associated with the health of the national government and this clouds your ability to view decentralization as a positive good for society. Grade: C-

Camp Plain Dumb: You are plain dumb. You pay attention to politics but for base animalistic reasons. You follow politics like professional wrestling and do not apply reason to your political analysis. Grade: D (for Dumb)

Camp Totalitarian: You donít believe people in other cultures, even in far-off geographical regions (I.e you live in upper Midwest and they live in South) should live in a way that you donít approve of. Grade: F

Can't forget Camp Bullshit: you make up bullshit about politics just to make Your Side look good. Grade: negative infinity
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But that was during primary season. I definitely expect him to have a hard floor of 25-30 percent, with the difference between that number and his vote total being people who were like “I’m Republican, I hate Hillary, and maybe he’ll bring his [supposed] business savvy to goverment, clean up the corruption, make some deals”. I’m just puzzled that he was recently over 40 percent and isn’t far under now. To put it another way, if he’s at 40 percent now, why wasn’t he at 60 percent two years ago?
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But that was during primary season. I definitely expect him to have a hard floor of 25-30 percent, with the difference between that number and his vote total being people who were like ďIím Republican, I hate Hillary, and maybe heíll bring his [supposed] business savvy to goverment, clean up the corruption, make some dealsĒ. Iím just puzzled that he was recently over 40 percent and isnít far under now. To put it another way, if heís at 40 percent now, why wasnít he at 60 percent two years ago?

Trump's been obviously awful from pretty much the get-go, and it wasn't long before the only people who supported him were the absolute morons who also have no morals whatsoever. These people aren't going to get any smarter or more moral, so they will basically continue to support him no matter what, until they personally are being directly harmed in a way so obvious that their tiny, pea-like brains are able to comprehend it. Until then they won't stir; 800,000 strangers suffering is just ambrosia to them.
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Trump's approval rating hardly changes no matter what he does. If you look at the history on fivethirtyeight.com, it started at about 45% when he took office, then sank to around 40% within a few months. Since then it has sunk as low as 36.4% and gone as high as 42.9%. It's never taken either a steep climb or dive.

One possibility is that the MAGA hat crowd actually believes Trump when he talks about fake news. If that's the case, it doesn't matter what Trump does. When the news reports on the effects of his policies and behavior, he just tells his followers not to believe it, and they don't. What few of us expected is that there are so many of these people.
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