How many writers have to walk out of DC Comics before they realize they're shooting themselves in the foots by being so controlling over their writer's creativity? This is far from the first instance since DC's New 52 began.

I get the frustration by creative teams, especially if decisions are being made late in the game, or changed. I get feeling stifled when editors try to give directives to creative people. I get that readers are there because of the creators, not the editorial staff. I get that. I do.

At the same time, the creators don't own the characters - the company does. The editors have been hired by the company, in part, to steer their properties. In my opinion, it's editorial's job to guide the creators in the use of the properties (although they apparently haven't been doing a great job of that).

On top of that, DC had the opportunity, with the New 52, to build to a universe with continuity and direction, in which all titles fit into an overall goal, as opposed to letting creators do whatever the heck they wanted and having other creators retconning things later. Granted, that hasn't worked out (see the massive recon that already happened to StormWatch which in turn affected Demon Knights and JL Dark, and the apparent disappearance of Hellsponte, Voodoo, Grifter, Fairchild, Deathblow, and pretty much every other WildStorm character, and dropped plotlines in Red Hood, Teen Titans, Legion of Super-Heroes and the abandonment of the Harvet/N.O.W.H.E.R.E. story). Once again, it's editorials' job to have storylines moving the way the company wants, as opposed to whatever the creators feel like doing.

For me, this is not an issue of editors smacking down creators. Without being in the loop I can only guess, but my feeling is that the editorial division isn't overstepping its bounds, but that it's going about its job in the wrong way. It appears to me that this is less about stifling the creator and more about poor communication and direction up front, or changes made to given direction at the last minute.

“One of the most sincere forms of respect is actually listening to what another has to say.” ~ Bryant H. McGill

I get the frustration by creative teams, especially if decisions are being made late in the game, or changed. I get feeling stifled when editors try to give directives to creative people. I get that readers are there because of the creators, not the editorial staff. I get that. I do.

At the same time, the creators don't own the characters - the company does. The editors have been hired by the company, in part, to steer their properties. In my opinion, it's editorial's job to guide the creators in the use of the properties (although they apparently haven't been doing a great job of that).

On top of that, DC had the opportunity, with the New 52, to build to a universe with continuity and direction, in which all titles fit into an overall goal, as opposed to letting creators do whatever the heck they wanted and having other creators retconning things later. Granted, that hasn't worked out (see the massive recon that already happened to StormWatch which in turn affected Demon Knights and JL Dark, and the apparent disappearance of Hellsponte, Voodoo, Grifter, Fairchild, Deathblow, and pretty much every other WildStorm character, and dropped plotlines in Red Hood, Teen Titans, Legion of Super-Heroes and the abandonment of the Harvet/N.O.W.H.E.R.E. story). Once again, it's editorials' job to have storylines moving the way the company wants, as opposed to whatever the creators feel like doing.

For me, this is not an issue of editors smacking down creators. Without being in the loop I can only guess, but my feeling is that the editorial division isn't overstepping its bounds, but that it's going about its job in the wrong way. It appears to me that this is less about stifling the creator and more about poor communication and direction up front, or changes made to given direction at the last minute.

+1

I mentioned this in the Facebook CCL group posting but it appears to me that this creative team is attempting to use the book and characters as a pulpit to push an agenda. As you mentioned, padreglcc, the company and characters are not owned by the creative teams who are hired to write stories that appeal to the most people possible in an effort to make money. Its the editors job to try and guide the creative teams to make this happen.

Personally, if it means that much to them they really should start their own comic book and write stories they are so passionate about. If they are good then people will buy. When you work for DC you gotta write DC stories...

Some people are also pushing this as refusing to allow a gay marriage in the DCU. With the exception of Aquaman, pretty much EVERY marriage that was pre- New 52 has been erased. It's a ban on marriages, not a ban on GAY marriage.

Some people are also pushing this as refusing to allow a gay marriage in the DCU. With the exception of Aquaman, pretty much EVERY marriage that was pre- New 52 has been erased. It's a ban on marriages, not a ban on GAY marriage.

Something that the creators did acknowledge. They said the characters could get engaged, but that it would never result in marriage.

“One of the most sincere forms of respect is actually listening to what another has to say.” ~ Bryant H. McGill

You all make good points, and I might agree, IF this was the first time. This isn't first time, second time, or even third time. Multiple writers have walked out of DC Comics' doors since New 52 has started. There is something very wrong going on with DC editorial.

You all make good points, and I might agree, IF this was the first time. This isn't first time, second time, or even third time. Multiple writers have walked out of DC Comics' doors since New 52 has started. There is something very wrong going on with DC editorial.

You may be very right about this. As I mentioned earlier, it seems pretty obvious that at the very least the editorial staff is not communicating well with the creative staff. But as a counterpoint to that, I wonder if we aren't seeing the result of artists and writers being essentially given free reign at the Big Two for the past couple of decades and then DC trying to reassert more control. Is it possible that along with editors who don't seem to be doing a good job, we're also seeing talent that doesn't like not getting their way like they're used to?

“One of the most sincere forms of respect is actually listening to what another has to say.” ~ Bryant H. McGill

I get the frustration by creative teams, especially if decisions are being made late in the game, or changed. I get feeling stifled when editors try to give directives to creative people. I get that readers are there because of the creators, not the editorial staff. I get that. I do.

At the same time, the creators don't own the characters - the company does. The editors have been hired by the company, in part, to steer their properties. In my opinion, it's editorial's job to guide the creators in the use of the properties (although they apparently haven't been doing a great job of that).

On top of that, DC had the opportunity, with the New 52, to build to a universe with continuity and direction, in which all titles fit into an overall goal, as opposed to letting creators do whatever the heck they wanted and having other creators retconning things later. Granted, that hasn't worked out (see the massive recon that already happened to StormWatch which in turn affected Demon Knights and JL Dark, and the apparent disappearance of Hellsponte, Voodoo, Grifter, Fairchild, Deathblow, and pretty much every other WildStorm character, and dropped plotlines in Red Hood, Teen Titans, Legion of Super-Heroes and the abandonment of the Harvet/N.O.W.H.E.R.E. story). Once again, it's editorials' job to have storylines moving the way the company wants, as opposed to whatever the creators feel like doing.

For me, this is not an issue of editors smacking down creators. Without being in the loop I can only guess, but my feeling is that the editorial division isn't overstepping its bounds, but that it's going about its job in the wrong way. It appears to me that this is less about stifling the creator and more about poor communication and direction up front, or changes made to given direction at the last minute.

+1

I mentioned this in the Facebook CCL group posting but it appears to me that this creative team is attempting to use the book and characters as a pulpit to push an agenda. As you mentioned, padreglcc, the company and characters are not owned by the creative teams who are hired to write stories that appeal to the most people possible in an effort to make money. Its the editors job to try and guide the creative teams to make this happen.

Personally, if it means that much to them they really should start their own comic book and write stories they are so passionate about. If they are good then people will buy. When you work for DC you gotta write DC stories...

agreed whole hardheartedly with both of you. the talent can walk and fans will be mad but the world still turns and the books will still get published. not the first time editorial has messed stuff up and wont be the last. and like stated already if the team doesn't like it... start a book with image or dark horse. can't really say i side with the creative team or the editors but hey DC owns the characters.

Yes, the company has the legal and moral right to set a direction for stories about the characters that it owns. That extends to banning marriage for its characters, if the company wants to limit itself in that way.

But what seems to me disingenuous and unethical is the treatment of creators. Williams and Blackman complained of being shut down on several storylines, consistently at the last moment. It's as if DC policy is to string the creative people along for as long as possible without telling them that the editor has already decided to disallow their longer-term story plans. Because, y'know, if an editor told his creative people too soon that a later story would be disallowed, then the creative people might quit sooner rather than later, and that might have a detrimental effect on the company's financial goals.

Yes, the company owns the characters. Yes, the company has the legal and moral right to set a direction for stories about the characters that it owns. But for DC to conceal pertinent creative decisions from its creative people is, on a human and a social level, inexcusable.

it seems pretty obvious that at the very least the editorial staff is not communicating well with the creative staff.

I've been told stories of this at cons and at the bars after by creators going back years now. This has been happening at DC since Didio became EIC (or whatever his title was). It's not a New 52 thing.

They broke up Lois & Clark, this isn't an indictment on gays for goodness sake! The big 2 just hate marriage b/c they're all a bunch of bitter divorcées who don't know how to write married couple stories...

Tension is an essential element of storytelling. Romantic/sexual tension is one easy way to introduce this tension into stories and maintain it long term. Marriage often undoes that tension (the "will they or won't they" factor is gone) and consequently the story is often less interesting.

“One of the most sincere forms of respect is actually listening to what another has to say.” ~ Bryant H. McGill

Tension is an essential element of storytelling. Romantic/sexual tension is one easy way to introduce this tension into stories and maintain it long term. Marriage often undoes that tension (the "will they or won't they" factor is gone) and consequently the story is often less interesting.

yeah i guess. but i still dont wanna read about batman being (banned) off uz he got c hewed out for not taking out the trash. i hope they foc us more on the ac tion. if i wanted drama i'd read drama books. or hang ouyt by high school like some creepy dude lol

Tension is an essential element of storytelling. Romantic/sexual tension is one easy way to introduce this tension into stories and maintain it long term. Marriage often undoes that tension (the "will they or won't they" factor is gone) and consequently the story is often less interesting.

I always enjoyed Pete/MJ stories, there was tension b/c he was off galavanting as Spidey & 1) she didn't know if he'd make it back alive 2) She often felt neglected b/c of his absence. Pete either 1) felt guilty or 2) was oblivious to it. It all comes down to personal taste in the end.

Forum Jump

Access

You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.