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Story Monday May 21 2018

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I agree in general but regarding the specific case of Mr. Raven, I think the reason Abraham was unconvinced he can put him to sleep was related to his age and experience, not species. Note he said "The elf", not just elf.

Absolutely, and I should have stressed that. Originally I had some damfool D&D notion about elves resisting sleep spells in mind but dismissed it when I found the page in question. I just didn't bother to alter my phrasing.

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I agree in general but regarding the specific case of Mr. Raven, I think the reason Abraham was unconvinced he can put him to sleep was related to his age and experience, not species. Note he said "The elf", not just elf.

Absolutely, and I should have stressed that. Originally I had some damfool D&D notion about elves resisting sleep spells in mind but dismissed it when I found the page in question. I just didn't bother to alter my phrasing.

I noticed this while playing the "guess the EGS page" game on discord (someone made a bot that gave clues in the form of little sections of a page and you guess which it is), Abraham increased the power of the sleep spell on Ellen after he'd moved her, the next page has Magus failing to amplify Abraham's guilt to prevent him from killing Ellen, add that to Abraham resisting the original AOE sleep spell and either Abraham has a pretty high natural resistance, built up by experience, or he has some enchanted items that boost resistance, or maybe it's a combination of the two.

As for whether or not Adrian could have resisted it, we'll probably never know for sure. I think getting thrown out the window by an exploding fireball either knocked him out cold, or weakened him to where he was just unable to resist. It's also possible that Pandora put Adrian to sleep as well as reapplying his disguise.

Not necessary, this is completely different kind of research. No amount of researching magic itself can disqualify you for second purpose ... researching history, on the other hand, can. At least I don't see any other way how to get the second purpose than finding some description of the meeting in historical books.

16 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

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The question why he is using the ring instead of wand still remains ; even with plenty of power to spare, wouldn't wand be easier?

Simple answer: sometimes he wants to be conspicuously a wizard (e.g. when he went on TV with the complete stereotypical outfit including staff) and sometimes he doesn't - but still wants spellcasting ability, just in case. So he probably ALWAYS has the ring with him, even when he isn't wearing it.

I said wand, not staff. But good point, the ring would certainly be less conspicuous. On the other hand, there are other totally not conspicuous ways to hide wand ... like umbrella.

16 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

(It's useful for a high-power spellcaster to have an automatic way for his subconscious to know he is NOT casting a spell. That way a casual thought about a campfire won't start a fire. A firmly-set pattern of "I wear and use this ring to cast spells" would work.)

Get to the queue. Let's see who is sad with that ... Magus. Ellen. Arthur, as it would allowed to catch him ....

3 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

4 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

One thing I am hugely relieved about is that he didn't try to transform Ellen without her consent before fleeing.

That could have resulted in Ellen returning the favor...

Which could be funny but not fair. Magus's spell would be permanent, while Ellen's ... well, FV5 is designed to last month so it would probably take him some time to get rid of it, but still.

14 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Abraham increased the power of the sleep spell on Ellen after he'd moved her, the next page has Magus failing to amplify Abraham's guilt to prevent him from killing Ellen, add that to Abraham resisting the original AOE sleep spell and either Abraham has a pretty high natural resistance, built up by experience, or he has some enchanted items that boost resistance, or maybe it's a combination of the two.

He might also have some long-term enchantment raising his resistance on him, it might even be sideefect of the stoning spell. Just to add another option. On the other hand, I suspect that Magus's amplifying wasn't that strong to begin with.

16 minutes ago, Scotty said:

As for whether or not Adrian could have resisted it, we'll probably never know for sure. I think getting thrown out the window by an exploding fireball either knocked him out cold, or weakened him to where he was just unable to resist. It's also possible that Pandora put Adrian to sleep as well as reapplying his disguise.

Considering we was out cold before Abraham cast the spell ... and ended up in hospital ...

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Not necessary, this is completely different kind of research. No amount of researching magic itself can disqualify you for second purpose ... researching history, on the other hand, can. At least I don't see any other way how to get the second purpose than finding some description of the meeting in historical books.

I wasn't just talking about research on what he is able to do, I was also referring to him looking for records of others who had his quirks, if he did that he would have been likely to learn about Seers, that he is one and even potentially learning about their purposes.

4 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

On the other hand, I suspect that Magus's amplifying wasn't that strong to begin with.

Magus was barely able to amplify Ellen's emotions, he wasn't able to get her to zap Elliot which means she did resist that part, but she couldn't keep herself from zapping at all. That was before Ellen awakened though and she's had a good part of a year to build up more resistance.

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Not necessary, this is completely different kind of research. No amount of researching magic itself can disqualify you for second purpose ... researching history, on the other hand, can. At least I don't see any other way how to get the second purpose than finding some description of the meeting in historical books.

I wasn't just talking about research on what he is able to do, I was also referring to him looking for records of others who had his quirks, if he did that he would have been likely to learn about Seers, that he is one and even potentially learning about their purposes.

Yes, that would be the historical research I'm speaking about.

Tedd obviously doesn't have access to such books, but Arthur certainly did. In fact, he DID find about magic reset somewhere. But apparently didn't spend SO much time researching it ...

27 minutes ago, Scotty said:

37 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

On the other hand, I suspect that Magus's amplifying wasn't that strong to begin with.

Magus was barely able to amplify Ellen's emotions, he wasn't able to get her to zap Elliot which means she did resist that part, but she couldn't keep herself from zapping at all. That was before Ellen awakened though and she's had a good part of a year to build up more resistance.

It's more noteworthy he was able to influence Tedd.

26 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

38 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Which could be funny but not fair. Magus's spell would be permanent, while Ellen's ... well, FV5 is designed to last month so it would probably take him some time to get rid of it, but still.

Why would Magus need to know a F->M spell if he were permanently male after one casting? Aside from story convenience of course...

It's two credits and much more useful than several other spells he learned to get enough credits to pass to next year.

Alternatively: It's only permanent until someone casts M->F spell on you. And teachers secretly supports bullying with magic because it helps students build up magic resistance.

Yes, the question why he knows such spell may interesting, but he clearly implied he knows it.

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It's possible that despite how well someone can resist something, if they don't know there's something that needs to be resisted, then they're not likely to resist.

In the case of Ellen zapping Tedd instead of Elliot, she obviously didn't know she was being influenced by a spell, but she was still resisting the urge to zap Elliot because she apparently had strong feelings about not zapping her brother, then Tedd walked into the room and Ellen's already zapped him before and so Tedd was an easy target to satisfy the urge.

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Yes, the question why he knows such spell may interesting, but he clearly implied he knows it.

I realize this. I was pointing to "why" not to question that Magus would know a F->M spell but to suggest there might be a practical reason. *His* gender change spell might have a time limit also. I didn't really make my point clear, sorry....

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I realize this. I was pointing to "why" not to question that Magus would know a F->M spell but to suggest there might be a practical reason. *His* gender change spell might have a time limit also. I didn't really make my point clear, sorry....

Magus was born female and used a gender change spell to become male, not entirely sure if the original spell was his or if he had someone cast it and then later learned the spell or what, but it's also possible that his spell is like Tedd's mark spell in that it changes the caster's default form, though unlike Tedd's spell, it might also be able to change the default form of others which is evident by Magus' believing he can "fix" Ellen, it wouldn't be a fix if it was a limited duration enchantment. It's also possible the magic system his universe has is one that includes a ticking clock like if a spell isn't undone within a period of time, it becomes permanent, and undoing it isn't as simple as just resisting it.

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Yes, the question why he knows such spell may interesting, but he clearly implied he knows it.

I realize this. I was pointing to "why" not to question that Magus would know a F->M spell but to suggest there might be a practical reason. *His* gender change spell might have a time limit also. I didn't really make my point clear, sorry....

Hmmm ... maybe it DID had ... like, maybe noone else was willing to use permanent F->M spell on teenager, arguing that temporary one is more than enough for his stated purpose. So to get the permanent change he totally wanted just because of that upper body strength ( ) he needed to learn it himself.

2 minutes ago, Scotty said:

It's also possible the magic system his universe has is one that includes a ticking clock like if a spell isn't undone within a period of time, it becomes permanent, and undoing it isn't as simple as just resisting it.

... also good point. Just because it didn't used to be possible in EGS main universe doesn't mean Magus wouldn't be able to use spell like that ...

... BTW, he didn't left any spell on anyone, and noone was enchanted while in the facility. So, the question of why the ticking clock spells were mentioned is still open ...

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... BTW, he didn't left any spell on anyone, and noone was enchanted while in the facility. So, the question of why the ticking clock spells were mentioned is still open ...

I think they were separate instances, Magus wanted no one else to be enchanted so that the diamond didn't somehow accidentally split them. The WoM mention of the ticking clock might just be foreshadowing possible future storyline plots or just a general "people have come to expect transformations to be temporary unless the spell is specifically meant to change the default form, that's totally not the case anymore." It's possible that the WoM bringing up the fact that older systems are now available, but that it was certain that there was no one alive that would know spells from an older system, it's possible that it wasn't aware of Magus being someone that would know an older version.

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The WoM mention of the ticking clock might just be foreshadowing possible future storyline plots or just a general "people have come to expect transformations to be temporary unless the spell is specifically meant to change the default form, that's totally not the case anymore."

It was obviously foreshadowing. I was just commenting that it's apparently more longer-term foreshadowing that I expected.