how? metamorphosis would be the equivalent of army of the dead or summon gargoyle for death knights.

No. It's not. Its FAR more iconic for the DH class.

Originally Posted by Immitis

i want this

What you "want" is a dualwielding class, who plays like Rogue, wear leather armour, has the option of wearing a blindfold and can wield Glaives.

It's called a Rogue.

If Blizzard were to introduce a Demon Hunter class, then it may very well end up as similar. It may not.

Originally Posted by Immitis

i dont mind if its a broad version of the warcraft 3 version, in fact its impossible for it not to be considering the heroes in warcraft 3 only had 4 abilities but considering demon hunters existed for 10,000 years with no interaction with illidan besides fairy tails and legends about what he did in the war of the ancients theres no reason to assume a playable version requires what the small handful trained directly by illidan have.

The lore you keep quoting is going to be a secondary consideration at best.

What matters is whats already been shown in game - DHs have metamorphosis; the existing direction - Warlocks have been thematically linked to Demon Hunters for several years; the existing design - Warlocks and Demon Hunters share many moves; the effect on other classes - Warlocks are the class who associates with and interacts with demons so how will they feel to see their "theme" diluted to bring in another such class; what the game needs - does the game need another leather wearing AGI based melee class?; and expectations for the class - players expect a Warcraft style Demon Hunter

Whether Illidan was available to train or not is irrelevant. Whetehr the tattoos have any meaning is irrelevant.

You view a Demon Hunter as similar to a Rogue. What if Blizzard sees the Demon Hunters as a warlock who put aside his studies as a caster and simply focussed on a more hands on approach? Or simply states that a Warlock based Demon Hunter simply represents a person who underwent Demon Hunter training?

im not saying they shouldnt have meta or that it would be bad, in fact id rather they did have meta, im just saying it isnt required and the people saying things like they wouldnt be demon hunters without it are overtly exaggerating

You are wrong. In order to be a Warcraft style Demon Hunter, in order to meet the expectation of the players for this class, Metamorphosis is a necessity. If you don't have that, then what you have is a class who simply shares the name. That's far from impossible to happen should Blizzard actually bring in the class, but at the same time you need to ask "Why embrace those expectations if you cannot meet them?". Why raise the hopes if you end up with a wannabee class?

Metamorphosis is a key, iconic, signature move for the Demon Hunter in WoW. Most iof not all DHs in game have that as part of their ability list. It is the DHs ultimate move in WC3. Its been associated with the class for over 10 years.

This is NOT a problem that can be shrugged off simply by saying "it doesn't matter". It does.

Again, granted, that's not to say that Blizzard can't or won't create a Demon Hunter without these moves. They can easily do so. But then it wouldn't be a WoW DH class. It'd simply share the name. So - why bother?

Ehm, that's only because this is a game which has levels in it... Lore wise there are no levels in that sense, lore wise our characters don't stand a chance against Illidan alone.

If we were to believe the game, we would be able to have five thousand level one bandits continuously stabbing us with swords and daggers and not even notice it. Don't use levels as an argument of how strong our characters are, they are just a number for people to think they become stronger, and a reason for people to redo what they always do every expansion.

There is a reason all essential npc's such as guards and the like level up with us every expansion, it's not because they have worked out and become stronger.

Well, that's kind of my point; We're playing a game. In a game, if we're stomping a character in its 70s and we're at level 100, and that character is part of our theoretical class, we should have their abilities and more. Its the same reason Death Knights have some of the Lich King's abilities at level 90. By this point they are more powerful than the Lich King in terms of gameplay.

I understand that some here have a jones over Illidan and think that he's some god or something. But in game terms, any level 90 can stomp Illidan into the ground. If I'm a level 90 Demon Hunter, I should be stomping Illidan with everything he has and more. And that includes Metamorphosis.

Well, that's kind of my point; We're playing a game. In a game, if we're stomping a character in its 70s and we're at level 100, and that character is part of our theoretical class, we should have their abilities and more. Its the same reason Death Knights have some of the Lich King's abilities at level 90. By this point they are more powerful than the Lich King in terms of gameplay.

I understand that some here have a jones over Illidan and think that he's some god or something. But in game terms, any level 90 can stomp Illidan into the ground. If I'm a level 90 Demon Hunter, I should be stomping Illidan with everything he has and more. And that includes Metamorphosis.

And that point is rather useless as it provides nothing... You are not stronger than Illidan, because the current Illidan in the game is outdated content that hasn't been updated, whilst your character has. If/when Illidan is revived, he will again be much stronger than our characters, because he will have been updated to today's world.

yeah thats the official response but later on other blizzard employees like mumper have said that when it comes to things not yet added in wow that the rpg books would be a good source for what they would be like if they added them so pretty much "there not really cannon but when it comes to speculating they are a good guideline"

I'd like to see your citation for this... so far I see the OFFICIAL response.. if you have something different then produce it...

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Well, that's kind of my point; We're playing a game. In a game, if we're stomping a character in its 70s and we're at level 100, and that character is part of our theoretical class, we should have their abilities and more. Its the same reason Death Knights have some of the Lich King's abilities at level 90. By this point they are more powerful than the Lich King in terms of gameplay.

I understand that some here have a jones over Illidan and think that he's some god or something. But in game terms, any level 90 can stomp Illidan into the ground. If I'm a level 90 Demon Hunter, I should be stomping Illidan with everything he has and more. And that includes Metamorphosis.

ummm you do realize the game mechanics do not = lore right?

ingame it took 25 people to kill illidan, lore wise it was thousands of soldiers storming the citadel, same with the lich king.

just because ingame you can go to black temple and kill illidan doesnt mean that lorewise you would be able to

---------- Post added 2013-04-25 at 09:15 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Seranthor

I'd like to see your citation for this... so far I see the OFFICIAL response.. if you have something different then produce it...

it was in an interview a while back where someone asked him why blizzard decided to make the rpg non cannon when it was cannon for years, and another interview where when he asked him what kind of things blizzard contemplates for new classes and races and he said somethign along the lines of "if you look in the rpg books you can pretty much see what we thought was pretty cool and while its not 100% what we might want its a pretty good place to get a vibe for things were thinking about"

it was years ago ive already had to dig up multiple interviews in this thread and others because of people like you. its a minor issue anyways and im not gonna spend hours looking in google for you, if you really have a hard time believe that something made and written by blizzard themselves is not a good guidline for what they themselves would like something to be like then by all means spend half a day looking for that one answer in an interview that was like 2 years ago

"I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
"so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

For me, in my small opinion, I think the best way to please everybody would be by doing the following in this order:
-remove meta from demo locks
-add another ultimate pet to replace meta
-add a druid form-like meta to demon hunters
-add 4th spec to locks based on demon hunting glyph and dark apotheosis
-add back the meta to this new spec

For me, in my small opinion, I think the best way to please everybody would be by doing the following in this order:
-remove meta from demo locks
-add another ultimate pet to replace meta
-add a druid form-like meta to demon hunters
-add 4th spec to locks based on demon hunting glyph and dark apotheosis
-add back the meta to this new spec

4th/5th specs would cause to much trouble

"I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
"so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon