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what is the typical size for a grand piano to be used at home? i always thought 9 feet grands were super loud and can fill a concert hall. would that be too loud for home use? what size grand pianos are good?

A well-regulated, well-voiced piano will play at a variety of tonal levels that will fit into any room. The tone is purer in larger pianos, so that they can be less annoying than smaller ones. So quality matters more than size, although larger pianos are capable of better quality.

I've played concert grands (Yamaha CF-IIIS and CFX) in a room 15ft by 25ft, and they've sounded great - from the pianist's perspective. I've also sat in the same room as a member of the audience, when it does sound rather loud when the pianist goes for it.

Personally, I'd have the concert grand anytime, even in such a room at home (if I could afford one), just for its full sound and tonal range.

_________________________
"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

The standard advice is that the perimeter of the room holding the piano should be 10 times the lengt of the piano. So for instance a 20x30 foot room has a perimeter of 100 feet which would be big enough. That's a very rough rule though - I have a 7 footer I a room that size and it is quite loud. The room is bright though with lots of hardwood. A similar sized room with heavy carpets and cloth would be much quieter. PianoBuyer.com always has a sizing article but I am too lazy to go find it.

If you have a space that can take a nine footer there are good deals to be had because performance halls by and large don't want to buy used pianos, so they are hard to move. However I have a very large room with a pretty high ceiling and no way would I put a nine footer in there. I just asked my wife about it and she says they don't make thick enough earplugs for her to allow that.

#2026463 - 02/03/1306:25 PMRe: Can a 9 feet concert grand be used at home?
[Re: adak]

pianoloverus
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Registered: 05/29/01
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Loc: New York City

I think it's very dangerous to take advice about this topic because each room and each piano is so different. For example, the Piano Buyer rule assumes the room is completely enclosed except for a small doorway, but often that's not the case. A big consideration is how the lid will be configured(from completely up to completely closed). I personally don't at all agree that an extremely large piano in a very small room would work as long as the piano is well regulated and voiced.

Generally speaking, I think that the concert grands each company is going to put their best in that. Of course, "best" varies from company to company, but within the company's standards, that seems to be the case.

I have a 9'2 Petrof in my home. It did take some getting used to when I first had it in my 12 x 14 room with a large open doorway into the next room. Now it's in a 14 x 18 room, but it's an open concept home, so really the sound has farther to travel. I like the sound much better here. Petrofs are a warmer sound than say a Yamaha, so I'm sure the particular sound of the instrument plays a large part in how loud it is perceived.

I agree with posters that the room and its acoustics have much to do with how any piano, of any size, will sound. I have a 7 foot M & H BB in a small bedroom and play it with the door shut. It is fine. I have usually played it with the lid down or half-stick, but also play it fully open. Carpet, books on bookshelves, closed blinds--they probably all help. Not sure how a nine-footer would do because I don't think it would fit, even at an angle, but I considered a 9 footer a while back when I had a slightly bigger room. I think it depends a lot on how you play and on the piano, too. I know a lot of previous posts about questions like this will bring up the formula in the books, and I guess it doesn't hurt to be careful. If you buy a concert grand, it can be hard to change your mind and sell it, I imagine. In music schools they often have practice rooms that are tiny and barely can hold the pianos, but they seem to do ok. Maybe not ideal, though. How fussy are you?

I considered a D Steinway - very very seriously (used). Bought 7'4" Grotrian instead. My experience is that it's no louder than the previous 5'11" Schimmel - it's easier to control, and easier to play softly. Yes, if I want to play ffff, it will become LOUD, but in a home situation, it's not the way I would play anyway. I've a carpeted room, drapes over all glass, and 4 doorways open to the rest of the house.

The 'loudest' piano I've ever played was a Yamaha CF6 - it sounded even louder than the CFX because it was voiced very bright.

_________________________
"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

I forgot to mention that I have 9' ceilings and hardwood floors. The open-floor plan opens to tiled areas, but I think having the hardwood floors with curtains on the windows, an area rug, and a leather couch set helps absorb some of the sound. We used to have wall-to-wall carpeting in the room, and with my warm-sounding piano I didn't like it at all. The hardwood flooring really brought out the richness.

So essentially, if you find a piano you love that is a concert grand, then there are things you can do to the room to help the sound if needed.

I service three customers with 9' concert grands in their homes. Any piano can be played loudly (like with your fists); only a quality piano in good regulation can be played pianissimo.

Remember that the keys on a concert grand are usually two feet long, which gives you excellent leverage and control compared to shorter pianos (see photos on my website).

Regulation is the one piano service that most people don't know about. It's the process of adjusting the motion of the keys and hammers back to factory specs. They get out of adjustment through wear. It's a gradual process, like tire wear, but if you've ever put new tires on a car, you feel the big difference in control right away. The easiest symptom is to put your eyes at key level, and sight along to see if they're even. If they're off by even half the thickness of the keytop, you'll notice it.

It usually costs about three or four tunings, but it lasts for five to ten years, and makes a huge difference in control, dynamic range, repetition speed, and evenness across the keyboard. I just regulated a 25-year-old Yamaha upright in good condition, and the owner felt the difference as soon as she touched the keys.

In my case, yes. My room is 20' X20' with an A Frame type ceiling starting at around 7' on the side and peaking at just over 15' at the top. The floor of the room is around 60% low nap carpeting and 40% hardwood floor (on which the piano sits) . It's raised maybe a foot off the cement foundation.

I could use some thicker absorption panels and diffusors as I have a fairly ugly slap-back echo thing going on from the parallel walls. But when you sit at the keyboard, playing, it's not really noticeable.

I play with the lid down and the piano cover on most often, not so much for decreasing the sound but simply because I'm too lazy to put it up. Also between the lid down and the cover, it does keep the strings and the rest of the inside looking brand new.

Sure it would sound better in a bigger room but as it is, it's fantastic! I feel very fortunate to have both the piano and the space...especially in a place like LA.

what is the typical size for a grand piano to be used at home? i always thought 9 feet grands were super loud and can fill a concert hall. would that be too loud for home use? what size grand pianos are good?

You’re asking two entirely different questions here. By far the largest selling grands in the United States market are those between 150cm and 160 cm (4’ 11” ‒ 5’ 3”) in length. And this by a considerable margin. From here sales decline dramatically as the overall sizes increase for obvious reasons. Most families are unwilling—or unable—to devote entire rooms just to the piano and most families are unwilling—or, again, unable—to stand the cost of longer, usually more expensive instruments.

Many manufacturers are now producing quite pleasant-sounding short grands; they are no longer the acoustical atrocities they once were. Still, there are distinct limitations inherent in shorter pianos.

Generally the advice given to piano shoppers is to get the longest piano they have room for (and/or can afford). The point of this advice is not that they will be getting a louder piano but that the longer piano will have the potential, at least, for producing a more articulate, cleaner sounding bass. Concert-sized pianos—usually considered by manufacturers to be everything from about 230 cm (≈ 7’ 6”)—do not have to be either designed or voiced to be sonically overpowering in the average home.

Somewhat off-topic - I bought a C6 a few months ago and one of the most popular questions I get is "what kind of piano is it? A baby grand? A full grand? A concert grand?" I'm never sure what to tell them - the people that ask generally are the ones that know nothing at all about pianos.

I don't swear so much on the perimeter rule, this is a very generalized rule which may proof false in single cases. Our living room for our nine footer is slightly L shaped, perimeter may be a little lower than this "thumb rule".

A concert grand - and every "too loud" piano can be modified - in cases that this is necessary or that it makes sense -, can be "de-tuned" in regard of dynamic range, to give up the chance for MAX SOUND, being ultra loud (which is not only unnecessary at home, but may be also annoying family members or neighbours...

And to get a much better pianissimo control: You can modify the lever lengths for this purpose. The mechanism of my Centennial D is directly designed! (THX Theodore S in heaven) to move the capstan screws. My dragon beast has very looong s-curve-shaped saddles under the repetitions - useful for exactly THIS purpose.. (Maybe dependent of the fact that the invention of capstan screw swas some months earlier only in March 1875.. Was it a test run? A little bit "banana hardware" to ripen at the customer's..?.. ;-)) ) Was it a wise decision to spend some cents more to get flexibility..?..

In radical cases it is possible to install a lighter set of hammers ad/or offset/modify the leverage. And/or (maybe) the need of re-weighening the keys with the lead plugs..

THE MOST efficient modification will be done in the near future: besides of a smoothened bass leverage by setting off the capstan screws by 5-6 mm there willcome soon a further de-tuning with a set of much more original lighter super old hammers.

We had a test installation of three of these super old hammers, and it was - PHEEEW.. Blowin' away. WHAT a nice, controlled, light touch. What a fine singing of the grand. And - on an american concert grand - a touch & feel near a viennoise Hammerklavier.

Re-installing the old concert BIG BLAST sound will be possible at every time coming.

But I will ever keep the advantage of super looooong strings with the purest sound.

The one and only little disadvantage remaining will be the slightly heavier damper puppet weights on the loong concert grand strings.

Entheo I'm not really that surprised. I would speculate that the top reasons for a piano are a) lessons for little Brayden and Brianna (who will likely abandon them by the time they're 12) and b) because a piano [shaped thing] would look so lovely in this room. Not many people play, and even fewer care enough to buy a good instrument and even fewer of those can actually afford it. And the ones that ARE really good probably have access to university pianos, or concert hall pianos, or any number of pianos that keep them from needing a good instrument at home.

Somewhat off-topic - I bought a C6 a few months ago and one of the most popular questions I get is "what kind of piano is it? A baby grand? A full grand? A concert grand?" I'm never sure what to tell them - the people that ask generally are the ones that know nothing at all about pianos.

If my history is accurate, the term "Baby Grand" was first used to describe a 5' grand introduced by Weber in 1900.

Personally, I don't use the term but if I did I would apply it to pianos 5' (or shorter). What you have is a grand piano that is ___ feet/inches or ___ cm long.

Entheo I'm not really that surprised. I would speculate that the top reasons for a piano are a) lessons for little Brayden and Brianna (who will likely abandon them by the time they're 12) and b) because a piano [shaped thing] would look so lovely in this room. Not many people play, and even fewer care enough to buy a good instrument and even fewer of those can actually afford it. And the ones that ARE really good probably have access to university pianos, or concert hall pianos, or any number of pianos that keep them from needing a good instrument at home.

Or people who actually do play but live in 900 sq. ft. condominiums or 1400 sq. ft. houses with three bedrooms, two baths and Brayden and Brianna and who still would like a grand piano.

This cynical view of the performance of short pianos--which I fully shared 20 years ago--no longer holds. Several makers of very short pianos are working hard to improve them and that work is paying off in significantly improved musical performance.

Entheo I'm not really that surprised. I would speculate that the top reasons for a piano are a) lessons for little Brayden and Brianna (who will likely abandon them by the time they're 12) and b) because a piano [shaped thing] would look so lovely in this room. Not many people play, and even fewer care enough to buy a good instrument and even fewer of those can actually afford it. And the ones that ARE really good probably have access to university pianos, or concert hall pianos, or any number of pianos that keep them from needing a good instrument at home.

Or people who actually do play but live in 900 sq. ft. condominiums or 1400 sq. ft. houses with three bedrooms, two baths and Brayden and Brianna and who still would like a grand piano. This cynical view of the performance of short pianos--which I fully shared 20 years ago--no longer holds. Several makers of very short pianos are working hard to improve them and that work is paying off in significantly improved musical performance.

ddf

does this mean that second hand baby grands at the moment are not viable option if you want a quality instrument? only buy new if you want a baby grand. but a new baby grand would cost about the same as a used non-baby grand.

Del I didn't mean to imply that short pianos necessarily sound bad. I nearly bought a 5'8 Knabe and played an SK-1 that just blew me away. What I meant was that a lot of pianos appear to be bought as status symbols more that as instruments. Kind of like pool tables. I always wanted a pool table and was thrilled to find that the house I'm in now was willing to leave it. I played it for about a month and now it sits collecting dust. When I move I'll leave it for the next guy. I've seen houses for sale around me that seem to have the same thing going on with their pianos. If they are played at all it is by the player system installed on it...

There certainly are people that love to play, but I don't think they're the majority of the market. I am not a piano retailer though so I may just be projecting my own ignorance.

This cynical view of the performance of short pianos--which I fully shared 20 years ago--no longer holds. Several makers of very short pianos are working hard to improve them and that work is paying off in significantly improved musical performance.

does this mean that second hand baby grands at the moment are not viable option if you want a quality instrument? only buy new if you want a baby grand. but a new baby grand would cost about the same as a used non-baby grand.

Well, as I say, 20 years ago I'd have whole-heartedly agreed. But within the past five years or so several piano makers have upgraded their small grand piano lines. None of these have the low bass performance of longer pianos but neither are they tubby, unmusical atrocities of the bad old days.

As far as used instruments are concerned, what you see (or hear) is what you get. Look and listen. Don't accept junk sound no matter the size or age of the piano. Listen for clarity in the low bass, musically transparent bass-tenor breaks, dynamic tenors and treble sections that are bright without being harsh.