Asian males face contradictory stereotypes
Perceptions of group vary widely from culture to culture, reflect views of various societies

* Published: Tuesday, April 4, 2000

By Jon Chang

This is in response to the column, "Stereotypes of Asian Americans limit dating scene" (Viewpoint, March 2). I'd like to comment that although Annalisa Burgos begins by mentioning how the stereotypes of Asian American females and males are analogous, she ends by stereotyping Asian American males herself.

Burgos implies that the lack of interracial dating by many Asian American males is due to their lack of intelligence and character. For example, she writes, "If more Asian American men would approach women outside of their race in the first place and prove that they are intelligent and worthwhile boyfriends, maybe there'd be more of these types of couples."

Burgos also contradicts herself when she writes, "...being American, I also value my independence and self-reliance. I refuse to be told what to do and often feel restricted by my family's expectations and pressure. And that's why many Asian American women are attracted to non-Asian men. There are fewer expectations and pressures in such relationships."

But what about Asian males? We value independence and self- reliance as much as the next American. Coincidentally, if the stereotype of Asian American males is that we are more "submissive, respectful and obedient" than the typical non-Asian American, wouldn't we then be less domineering and more sensitive than the average American male, and thus, a better catch? I have asked many white women who have dated Asian men about this, and the majority have told me that the men that they dated treated them with more respect and were less domineering than the "typical" American man.

I'd also like to talk about how these stereotypes affect the Asian American community as a whole. Both gender stereotypes of Asians are analogous. They portray Asians as weak, submissive and powerless. They perpetuate the image of Asians as foreigners because there is something very distinctly "un-American" about a poor, submissive, whimpering sap in an abundant land of "manifest destiny" and the old pull-yourself-up-by-the-bootstraps American mythology.

The stereotypes about Asian Americans are nothing more than a construct of mainstream American society that reveals more about the American psyche than the subject which it purports to describe.

As evidence, we should examine how Asians in Latin America are viewed. In general, Latino men are stereotyped as being more "macho" than American men. Yet, the stereotypes of Asian Latinos are very different from those in the United States. When I lived in Latin America, I knew about 10 Asian Argentine families in Buenos Aires, and in every case, it was an Asian male married to an Argentine woman. I was also told by a Peruvian woman that, in Peru, it is mostly men of Japanese descent who marry outside of their race because, in general, Japanese women want to maintain their culture, and thus they prefer Japanese Peruvian men.

In South America, Asian men are often looked upon as a good catch because the stereotypes there assume that Asians are well-educated, hard working, stable, and property or business owners of some sort. The above stereotypes are similar to ones about Asians in the United States. But in Latin America, they are used to construct an overall positive, powerful image of the Asian Latino.

Proof of this positive, masculine image was seen during the 1990 presidential campaign of Alberto Fujimori of Peru. While campaigning, he often carried a samurai sword and performed a routine of swordsmanship in front of potential voters. He won the presidency by a landslide in a country where the Asian population is similar proportionally to the United States. I seriously doubt that an Asian American, whether male or female, could be elected president of the United States in 1990, or even in 2020.

As far as I know, there are no stereotypes about the Asian Latino being submissive or geeky. Once, in Mexico City, I was talking about the Chinese community in America, and I asked the family with whom I was staying about how Chinese Mexicans were perceived. The mother of the family (whose family doctor was Chinese Mexican) told me, "Well, I'll tell you what I know about Chinese men in Mexico. I know that many like to gamble a lot, but aren't they womanizers?"

Are we either sexless geeks or womanizers? Clearly, Asian men are stereotyped across the board. So where does that leave us?

First, most Asian American men would probably be just as likely to go out with non-Asian women if given the opportunity. But what happens? Overwhelmingly, it is men who are the initiators of the dating process. Given that Burgos agrees that mainstream America has marginalized all Asian Americans, Asian males are more likely to introvert themselves within their community as a response to racism and ostracism.

For example, if an Asian American woman receives a date request from a white or black male, she assumes that this person is not racist and may be willing to go out with the man. If an Asian American male was asked out by a black or white female, he would probably feel the same way. But the difference is that, overwhelmingly, men initiate dates, not women.

What I see in the column is Burgos transferring her guilt for her marginalization as an Asian American to Asian men. From my experience, I have seen a sizeable number of Asian women who do not date Asian men. But it is erroneous, divisive and selfish when a person of color blames his/her opposite-sex ethnic counterpart for the marginalization which is accorded to their community as a whole.

In conclusion, I am not in any way opposed to interracial couples. I myself was raised by two white stepmothers, and I have brothers and sisters who are interracial. My example of how Asians are perceived in Latin America is meant to show how the same group can be represented by very different, or even opposing stereotypes, depending on the society they live in.

These stereotypes are as much constructs of that particular society as they are based on any sort of reality. The worst way to combat these stereotypes is to blame one segment of the given community for the marginalization of the whole. Unless we fight these stereotypes as a united community, we will continue to be seen as quiet, subservient, invisible and "foreign," the very ideas we wish to eradicate.

In South America, Asian men are often looked upon as a good catch because the stereotypes there assume that Asians are well-educated, hard working, stable, and property or business owners of some sort. The above stereotypes are similar to ones about Asians in the United States. But in Latin America, they are used to construct an overall positive, powerful image of the Asian Latino.

Asians in America are not Asians, they are American with parents or g-parents from an Asian nation.

Many stereotypes and cliches are true: that is why they exist. Observations.

Chinese men don't like to date Western Female Teachers:
1) The women are independent, do not do what they are told to do
2) The women are fat and bigger than the CM
3) The women are perceived to spread diseases

The WW don't like to date the CM:
1) They are oblivious to anything close to traditional values and instantly the stupid and insane power struggle ensues. The few Chinese men who dare, do not put up with this shit for an instant. Either the woman relents or they split up.

Also Chinese men have pathetically small dicks. This is based upon my personal visits to the sauna and spa, hanging around getting body scrubs and shooting the shit.

In the US, a strong Germanic/Celtic woman has a choice- a strong and masculine Anglo Saxon/Germanic/Celtic man with money or a smaller, radically different looking Asian man with a bit less money. And a smaller penis.

In Latin America a soft, smaller, usually virginal woman has a choice- a usually poor, horny and womanizing Latino man, becoming a mistress of one or two arrogant rich men around or a much richer, gentler and about the same height Asian man with the same black hair and kind of similar mestizo/Indian looking features. His looks are about the same. The smaller penis size is welcome because it hurts less or not at all. Many are terrified to be plowed open by a macho Latino with a pounding pelvis and three testicles.

Last edited by ladislav on Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:57 am, edited 2 times in total.

ph_visitor wrote:Also Chinese men have pathetically small dicks. This is based upon my personal visits to the sauna and spa, hanging around getting body scrubs and shooting the shit.

2.5" to 4" max.

Tragic.

Also CM last from 45 seconds to 3 minutes before climaxing.

What on earth. I know a gay guy who has seen multiple penises from men of different ethnicities and body builds. He says that penis size is proportional to body size, limb length, etc. Tall Asians with bigger hands and feet have bigger penises, short blacks with smaller hands and feet have smaller penises, and so on.

And what could possibly explain the humongous presence of Asians on Planet Earth. There are billions of them. People can make up all sorts of urban legends about emasculated Asians, but simple population figures prove those urban legends to be utter BS.

ladislav wrote:In the US, for a long time Asians were poor immigrants looking for work. In Latin America, they were business people, albeit not rich in the beginning but always trying to run some kind of business. They were never seen as "poor immigrants".

Actually, this is not really true.

In Latin America, many Asians started off as poor immigrants. Chinese toiled in the plantations of Cuba, Belize, Panama, and Peru. Many of them, or their descendants, eventually made their way up into business and entrepreneurship.

In the Philippines and some other Southeast Asian countries, Chinese would be "rich in the beginning but always trying to run some kind of business" and 'seen as "poor immigrants'."

Anglo segregation and racism is largely responsible. For instance, compare Malaysia (former British colony) and the Philippines (former Spanish colony; Filipinos never really adopted the Americans' ethnic/racial views, but rather held on to the old Spanish views).

Malaysia is still highly segregated, with ethnic groups often hating on each other. The Philippines is a mestizo society where people mix freely. The Sinophobia that existed in the Philippines had never reached the extent of Sinophobia in Indonesia and other former colonies of former Germanic countries.

ladislav wrote:In the US, for a long time Asians were poor immigrants looking for work. In Latin America, they were business people, albeit not rich in the beginning but always trying to run some kind of business. They were never seen as "poor immigrants".

Actually, this is not really true.

In Latin America, many Asians started off as poor immigrants. Chinese toiled in the plantations of Cuba, Belize, Panama, and Peru. Many of them, or their descendants, eventually made their way up into business and entrepreneurship.

In the Philippines and some other Southeast Asian countries, Chinese would be "rich in the beginning but always trying to run some kind of business" and 'seen as "poor immigrants'."

Anglo segregation and racism is largely responsible. For instance, compare Malaysia (former British colony) and the Philippines (former Spanish colony; Filipinos never really adopted the Americans' ethnic/racial views, but rather held on to the old Spanish views).

Malaysia is still highly segregated, with ethnic groups often hating on each other. The Philippines is a mestizo society where people mix freely. The Sinophobia that existed in the Philippines had never reached the extent of Sinophobia in Indonesia and other former colonies of former Germanic countries.

ph_visitor wrote:Asians in America are not Asians, they are American with parents or g-parents from an Asian nation.

Many stereotypes and cliches are true: that is why they exist. Observations.

Chinese men don't like to date Western Female Teachers:1) The women are independent, do not do what they are told to do2) The women are fat and bigger than the CM3) The women are perceived to spread diseases

The WW don't like to date the CM:1) They are oblivious to anything close to traditional values and instantly the stupid and insane power struggle ensues. The few Chinese men who dare, do not put up with this shit for an instant. Either the woman relents or they split up.

Also Chinese men have pathetically small dicks. This is based upon my personal visits to the sauna and spa, hanging around getting body scrubs and shooting the shit.

2.5" to 4" max.

Tragic.

Also CM last from 45 seconds to 3 minutes before climaxing.

Why is penis size so important to you anyway? Who cares? And to be honest, if people don't like you for the way you are, then I say--screw them. And besides, the only people I always hear about bragging about penis sizes always seem to be either Anglos or Blacks. It's like with White and Black culture that's all they talk about and put other people down for being smaller. It's so juvenile, imo. And tbh, I've never really heard foreign women (excluding European/Australian/Anglo types) really talk about the importance of penis sizes--like it's the most important thing in the world to them--or am I wrong?

Last edited by zboy1 on Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

zboy1 wrote:Those are some broad stereotypes you made there PH visitor. And besides, the only people I always hear about always bragging about penis sizes always seem to be either Anglos or Blacks. It's like with Whites and Black that's all they talk about and put other people down for being smaller. It's so juvenile, tbh. I never really hear foreign women (excluding European/Australian/Anglo types) really talk about the importance of penis sizes like it's the most important thing in the world to them. They're more concerned with other things or am I wrong? And why is penis size so important in the world anyway? Who cares.

Just because a faucet or garden hose is big doesn't mean the water quality is good.

What on earth. I know a gay guy who has seen multiple penises from men of different ethnicities and body builds. He says that penis size is proportional to body size, limb length, etc. Tall Asians with bigger hands and feet have bigger penises, short blacks with smaller hands and feet have smaller penises, and so on.

Well, one person's account is insignificant in such arguments, as I have learned the hard way. I mean, I saw pathetically small penises in Japan too, and they were of my body size and height. Their penises were the size of an earthworm, maybe a moth. But who will believe me? We need something else to prove our point.

It is always "I saw this and this happened to me" vs. "I saw something else and this never happened to me". Or "One friend I have saw that and he says that..."

One needs a scientific study across several thousand people for it to have some validity if at all.

I know a gay guy who has seen multiple penises from men of different ethnicities

Also, are these American ethnicities or foreign born/raised? That also matters.

And what could possibly explain the humongous presence of Asians on Planet Earth. There are billions of them. People can make up all sorts of urban legends about emasculated Asians, but simple population figures prove those urban legends to be utter BS.

The story is - penises of East Asians shrink more when they are not erect. But they get to be pretty big when erect although not as big as those of non East Asians. Has to do something with the Ice Age.

As far why East Asians have populated the Earth so much, well because penises are still big enough to spray the sperm in there, and mostly they have sex with East Asian women who allegedly have small vaginas, too.

How did you see the penises though? I can't imagine any other way except by (1) going to nude beaches (2) hanging out in gay bars.

And whenever people argue about penis size, they don't distinguish between flaccid size and erect size. It's like arguing about the sizes of balloons or sponges without mentioning the specifics.

The Google Answers page looks more credible, since they were using academic sources. But there is still so much that we don't know. So far everyone seems to be relying on anecdotal evidence. This can probably be better discussed at an anthropology forum.

Last edited by Falcon on Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

How did you see the penises though? I can't imagine any other way except by (1) going to nude beaches (2) hanging out in gay bars.

There is a third way: in many countries they have public baths- Japan, Hungary, Russia, Ukraine. People who go there are not gay. Such baths are about as common as public toilets in such countries. So, you see people of the same sex nude all the time.

America does not have the equivalent of public bath houses except when it comes to gays, and people are paranoid of the same sex,

And then you have porn movies- straight ones. And you can observe the cocks there.

After having been to bath houses in Ukraine and then in Japan, I would say that when flaccid, a Ukrainian guy's penis looks like the head of a bird, possibly a sparrow, whereas a Japanese one's looks a bit like a fat earthworm. What they look like when erect is another story and these I have not seen.

As it is with many things, Americans are in denial about the masculine character of Asian men. Briefly, let's illustrate the point:

When Ichiro Suzuki first came to the United States to play baseball and ever since, you can find many American women on the internet who wonder about his sexuality.

I don't claim to understand the reason for this.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zS4KxxMYHM[/youtube]

On the other hand, the faggot in the video below has earned millions from his female fans singing sub-standard, perfectly forgettable pop songs.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ToKkQBIyPs[/youtube]

I repeat, I don't claim to understand it.

And just for the record, Ichiro has been married since 1999. I think he is doing just fine.

Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that all was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible.
-T.E. Lawrence

Falcon wrote:What on earth. I know a gay guy who has seen multiple penises from men of different ethnicities and body builds.

Has he been to Asia or it this an American who thinks that people who had Asian Parents who moved to the USA are 'Asian'?

Asians don't live in America, Americans of Nth-Generation do.

This is what I see when I go to the sauna, in Asia, in China.

And what could possibly explain the humongous presence of Asians on Planet Earth. There are billions of them. People can make up all sorts of urban legends about emasculated Asians, but simple population figures prove those urban legends to be utter BS.

You equate having a small dick with not being able to reproduce - I do not and did not post any such thing.

It's the truth, it's no urban legend.

I live in China. I go to Chinese communal saunas where naked men are getting massages. In addition to the occasional guy who walks up to me and stares at my dick from 2 feet away to get a good look, the Chinese guys have small dicks. It's there to see, plain as day.

Just because they have small dicks does not mean that they cannot reproduce. I never said anything about that.

China and India have the world's oldest civilisations, so when modern medicine was created they had larger population bases off of which to grow explosively.

So this has no bearing on being able to reproduce.

Chinese men are also slighter of build and not as muscular even when you account for body size and diet and income standards. No body hair in most cases, too.

Falcon wrote:How did you see the penises though? I can't imagine any other way except by (1) going to nude beaches (2) hanging out in gay bars.

And whenever people argue about penis size, they don't distinguish between flaccid size and erect size. It's like arguing about the sizes of balloons or sponges without mentioning the specifics.

In other nations, as Ladislav posted, there are same-sex, non-sexual bath houses, saunas and spas where people of the same sex go to soak in hot water, get massages, talk, socialise and conduct business etc. In China these are split with one half being female and the adjacent or other floor being for the males. Big places. Showers, water fountains, places to sit and soak in various herbal remedies in a hot tub, and other such things. Hot and wet saunas, massage rooms, body scrubs, everything you could want.

Again, for you Americans: these are not like San Francisco bath houses. Sex is not involved, they are not for homosexual pick ups.

Again, for you Americans: other nations' men are not hung up about being naked in the presence of other men.

And whenever people argue about penis size, they don't distinguish between flaccid size and erect size. It's like arguing about the sizes of balloons or sponges without mentioning the specifics.

In Chinese and Japanese porn the man's penis is erect, and it's small then, too...