If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

It's not so much about "competing" as it is starting at a level that will bring and keep new people in the sport.

If a person is afraid of the level of competition that exists in the minors, they will probably not thrive in the upper levels and will soon be gone.

-=#David

Well, this started off as a really interesting thread. Too bad we couldn't keep it that way. (Rick_C 2009, Classic RTF)
__________________________________________________ _
Take what you get and thank them (the Judges) afterwards no matter what the outcome. (Moira Sheehan)

I agree that we should encourage new people to handle their dogs. When I see new folks, I do encourage them. I just don't see many new people at Trials.

-=#David

Well, this started off as a really interesting thread. Too bad we couldn't keep it that way. (Rick_C 2009, Classic RTF)
__________________________________________________ _
Take what you get and thank them (the Judges) afterwards no matter what the outcome. (Moira Sheehan)

I agree that we should encourage new people to handle their dogs. When I see new folks, I do encourage them. I just don't see many new people at Trials.

And on that note, when I was looking for a Pro I was told by several that I would not be handling my dog other than in the Am, needless to say I never sent my dog to these Pros. I think a persons pro should be encouraging them to handle, but it's a double edge sword...so we are back to if's and but's.

The logic here seems off, unless your point is that the judging pool for the higher levels will never deepen and the current judging pool will remain static until they die or retire.

If only amateurs can be judges, the way to deepen the pool is for new amateurs get into the sport. And hopefully for that amateur to have experience training their own dog and to run their own dog in the minor and major stakes. How else can you have the necessary experience to be a knowledgeable judge who keeps the sport solid, for lack of a better word.

If all the amateur did was watch the pro train his or her dog, then watch the pro run the dog up through AA with only an occasional time at bat, how is that amateur going to be a good judge?

First, my general observations are as follows (they are my observations, if you want do disagree, feel free to do so, but I am not going to get into a debate about whether they are accurate or not):

- As a practical matter, although the number of entries seems to be relatively constant, the number of owners who handle their dogs seems to be decreasing.

- The number of owners who train their dog and handle them in competition seems to be decreasing as well.
- The numbers of amateurs who compete with their dogs are insufficient to service the numbers of trials and stakes across the country.Second, if pros were allowed to judge, it would increase the judging pool. However,
- I don't think that there is sufficient political support to authorize pros to judge- Even if pros could judge, I doubt that there are sufficient numbers of pros to satisfy the short fall
Third, although as a general matter, I believe that it is helpful to a judge to have experience training a dog and competing with a dog, I have run under my share of judges who did both and were mediocre judges at best.
The key in becoming a better trainer, handler, or judge - first and foremost is desire and willingness to learn. Some have it, some do not. I have found over the years in this sport - as in life - that it is very difficult to make an adult a good student. By the time a person reaches adulthood, they are either a good student or are not.

Accordingly, in field trials - as in life - I will invest time in someone who I view to be a good student; I will ignore someone who I view to a poor student. Time is the big commodity in my life, and I am very careful where I invest it.

First, I don't think that any of us need to force competitive venues on anyone else. There is nothing wrong with not enjoying competition, any more than there is something wrong with enjoying competition. As long as you are having fun with your dog(s), who cares?Second, when it comes to Mike (MooserGooser), I am not telling him that he should compete, or that he is wrong in not wanting to compete. I am simply saying I am tired of hearing him whine - both on RTF and in person - about his alleged short-comings. I don't think that those short comings are present. But, if they were, I would tell him - and anyone else - either fix it or stop complaining about it. I despise whining.

Third, I am not much into the "this person is better than that person" stuff we get so frequently on RTF

SupposePerson A trains and handles his dogPerson B has a pro train his dog, but handles it in competition
Person C has a pro train and handle his dog

Why is any person better than the other?

For my own selfish reasons, I would like to have more owners run their dogs, because I believe - perhaps wrongly - that the more people did so, the more people we would have working at, judging, and putting on trials - which I think is good.

Ted

You know Gooser and I don't and you have the knowledge and the titles. Sometimes I get kind of concerned when it seems that the HRCH and MH is treated as just something that you can get while going for the FC and AFC. Maybe I'm just being oversensitive and I'm not saying you've done this. Like I said, I think the HRCH and the MH and big accomplishment.

You know Gooser and I don't and you have the knowledge and the titles. Sometimes I get kind of concerned when it seems that the HRCH and MH is treated as just something that you can get while going for the FC and AFC.

FT & HT are they're own cultures and do not cross much. How many FC-AFC these days do you see with an MH attached to the back? (Very Few) I don't know that I've ever seen one with an HRCH or a GRHRCH attached. It's becoming rare to see even QAA or derby dogs with HT titles. Seems like people choose one or the other, perhaps if you had more cross you might see more of this new blood everyone is supposedly looking for. But realistically everything from trials-tests-clubs right down to training groups-training style are segregated, often times with very ingrained opinions about the other venue (both sides). There is no real transition point btw the two, Picnic trails have all but disappeared, Every once in a great while you might see an Owner/handler Qual attached to a HT, those are increasing in rarity. Where's the pull-hook for the HT amateur to even try the FT venue, without jumping straight in to a venue ran mainly by pro trained dogs which is all but setup with an air of exclusivity and unattainably?

Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 12-04-2012 at 04:49 PM.

"They's Just DAWGS"
"Hunting is a skill to be learned whether you do it early or late it still needs to be learned"
"I train dogs, Not papers"