You can, I suppose, hammer the nail with it too, but it doesnt mean the gun is a hammer. You can kill people with a screwdriver but screwdriver is not a tool made and perfected for killing. A gun is. A gun is a tool for killing. All other tools are made to make human life easier, this one was made to destroy it. So saying that a gun is just a tool like any other makes me sick. It is not.

Or maybe your lack of fear comes from never being exposed to reality in which the guns are used as tools to bring death, to your neighbors, to you relatives, for no reason but because they are different nationality or race or religion.

If you cant understand a fear from guns, then you live a sheltered life in which guns are "tools" and toys. Dont assume everyone is so lucky.

I don't claim to be without fear. I have very reasonable fear but I place my fear where it belongs as I stated.
There are a great many things that have been made purely for the purpose of doing violence, some more effective than others. People were killing each other long before there were guns to help them do it.
A gun is not a toy and I believe you will find, if not it the post you referenced then in a previous one that I stated that flatly.

My point was simply that I was brought up in a different place and had different experience that had shaped a different way of thinking. I can try to understand how other people will see things differently but this is how and why I see things the way I do.
My hope was that my opinion (which I am as entitled to as you are yours) would be respected on that basis.
I am not selling anything.
I frankly don't give a damn what you or anyone thinks because I think we should all have the freedom to think what we like.
Now that this has reached the level of becoming personal I'm done with it.
I've said my peace.

Interesting to note that while Serbia is number 2 on the list, the USA is almost double in firearm possession (97/100) to Serbia (58.2/100).

What this list also does not say is the requirements and whether or not gun registry is included. Switzerland, for example, is 5th. However, every single Swiss male citizen between 18-50, after completing a compulsory 2 year service in the army, is militarily equipped (IF said male passed the necessary psych and safety tests, in addition to strict recertification), so that if need be, the army can be assembled within 24 hours. But, there are extremely stringent requirements in order to possess a firearm.

As you said, lists like these are extremely deceiving - we see only the placement numbers, but not other statistics or background information.

__________________Tread softly into the night...

Sing me not of the Sun,
the ever-constant, unchanging Sun.
But sing me of the moonlight and of the stars
and of our sighs at midnight.

I want to live - richly, darkly and entirely.
I want my mind challenged, my body thrilled, my soul inspired.
I want my senses to come alive, to burn with passion and to intoxicate me with desire.
So tempt my mind, seduce my body, enthrall my soul, and dare me to be alive.

Maybe it should be for teaching me to keep my mouth shut!
(Kidding! before anyone has a fit and starts posting domestic violence numbers.)

A gun is wood and metal and plastic put together in a certain way so that it will do a certain thing. It is a tool. The uses that tool gets put to depend entirely on the hands that pick it up.
It can be used to commit crime, certainly, or to threaten and hurt others.
That is not it's only use.
It can be used to feed your family when they're hungry.
It can be used to protect them when they're in danger (not always from other people.)
It can be (as it is for me) used in a sort of recreation.
It can be part of a form of sport that is even included in the Olympics.
It can be a valuable collectors item.

Once before (somewhere else) I made the mistake of saying what I think on this topic and someone asked me what good my gun would do me when I was starving to death. That was years ago and it still rings in my head.
There is a sort of fear around guns that I do understand. I believe that it comes in part from a simple lack of exposure to anything but the news items of people who have picked up that tool and done terrible things with it. As a person who was raised in a different mindset I see things differently. I see that it is possible for a powerful tool to be used to do dreadful things and it gives me a great deal of respect for that weapon when I hold it in my hands. It is no toy, nothing to be treated lightly. It is not, however a thing to be feared.

I fear the person who would pick up a gun and do violence with it. I fear that person whether he is holding a gun or not.
I fear the ignorant person who would treat any powerful thing as a toy because they are reckless and dangerous no matter what he is in control of because he does not control himself.
I fear people full of hate or righteous zeal because they will use any tool to accomplish ends that I find questionable.

I don't fear an object. I don't fear a compound bow or a rifle or a sword or that chainsaw that I threw out as a comparison to a movie title (although I once watched someone get hurt in ways that still make me sick to think of who had experience and skill using one.)
An object can't do evil. It has no will or volition, it can't choose to act. Only a person can do that.
I don't fear an object. I fear the person who would pick up an object and do harm and I know in my heart that the person who wants to do harm will do it whatever tool they have even if they have no tool at all.

I hope you know how much I respect your opinion, NHL

I hope that you know that this next statement/question one as a genuine concern, and not a criticism. I think what Aphroditiac, Rainshine (and myself, but this I know, not think) cannot wrap our heads around is the culture of fear that you seem to live in.

You're right - an object is just is. A firearm can be used as a tool for survival (food or protection) or for pure evil (destruction), depending on the person who operates said object. But the fact that you live in an environment of fear in which many people feel the need to use the tool for protection, and from what we, outside of the USA, see as too readily accessible, which in turns propagates the culture of fear.

THAT is something that is so uniquely alien to me, and I think to many of us non-Yanks. I go to the States often and to a particular state where firearms are virtually common place. I've had many intriguing conversations with locals, and those who did carry or owned several weapons (in my mind, there is an obvious distinction between a firearm and a weapon) all mention protection.

That idea just didn't make any sense to me, because while I know that there are sick and deranged people everywhere, I do not live in a place, or a city, where there is a lot of fear. I know how to protect myself without the need of a firearm (which is virtually useless inside 20 feet anyway). I feel safe, and I feel no fear here.

When I hear of a mass shooting in the USA, it saddens me, because good, kind people like yourself end up living in fear and will buy more firearms in order to feel safe. Unfortunately, the few morons will also buy the firearms (again, this might be from stereotyping, but it seems that there is little control on who gets to buy the weapon), who will then use the tool for evil, thus expanding the culture of fear in which more people will buy firearms, and so forth.

It's just an outsider observation, and I could very much wrong. I hope to whatever sacred deity that walked this earth that I am, because I cannot understand an environment where people feel unsafe. And yes, I've been in one where it was literally unsafe to be outside alone. The United States of America is not that place.

A well-placed footnote - this has nothing to do with any Amendment or Constitutional rights. This has to do with why people feel the need to feel safe.

__________________Tread softly into the night...

Sing me not of the Sun,
the ever-constant, unchanging Sun.
But sing me of the moonlight and of the stars
and of our sighs at midnight.

I want to live - richly, darkly and entirely.
I want my mind challenged, my body thrilled, my soul inspired.
I want my senses to come alive, to burn with passion and to intoxicate me with desire.
So tempt my mind, seduce my body, enthrall my soul, and dare me to be alive.

"Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil." Jeremiah 13:23

"The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?" Jeremiah 17:9

There are many systems of philosophy and political life which try to base law and all human relationships upon the nature of man. Man is made the measure of all things. All such systems, whether communism or humanism, or socialism, are doomed to fail because of one fatal flaw: they do not recognize the sinful, self-centered nature of man.They ignore God and deify man.

The raccoons' plan is working to perfection. First they send a dying raccoon to littlecordelera's house, hoping that she would create a thread on Lit asking for advice. They assumed this thread would lure in Litsters from all over the world, quickly turning into an endless debate and distracting everyone from the raccoons' true plans to invade.

The navy seal team of raccoons scouted and found the Litsters completely engrossed in argument v counterargument, and after establishing a beachhead the first wave arrived.

Still the Litsters continued debating, heedless to the outside world and the impending doom. Thrilled that their plan was working even better than expected, the raccoon generals sent in the next wave of attackers.

The arrogant bastards even fucked a dog, just because they could.

The King of the Raccoons is a kinky little fucker, so of course he was pleased.

I'm not afraid of guns.... but an armed idiot really is a scary thing!

I hunt and I shoot for recreational purposes.

I think that the Danish system, where you can get the guns you need for "honorable purposes" but we are quite strict regarding getting the permits, is working quite satisfactorily.
We have very little armed violence, and that is primarily criminals shooting each other with illegal weapons.
(They could need some training though. They are really bad shots!)

__________________
----------------------------------------------oooOooo-----------------------------------------------------
Every day you should learn something new, make a difference ....or do something kinky, dangerous or illegal.
----------------------------------------------oooOooo-----------------------------------------------------

This current news blurb caught my attention, especially with the timing of this thread and some of the discussion contained therein.
OPEN CARRY TEXAS

Was that pro-gun or anti-gun?

I think it was intended as pro..... but that was not the effect it had on me.

__________________
----------------------------------------------oooOooo-----------------------------------------------------
Every day you should learn something new, make a difference ....or do something kinky, dangerous or illegal.
----------------------------------------------oooOooo-----------------------------------------------------

I think it is good the OP took care of the situation. We get critters too. Hubs probably would have shot it then complained it was messy. Um...yeah! You blew a racoons brains all over the place so there is gonna be a mess.

I'm not afraid of guns.... but an armed idiot really is a scary thing!

I hunt and I shoot for recreational purposes.

I think that the Danish system, where you can get the guns you need for "honorable purposes" but we are quite strict regarding getting the permits, is working quite satisfactorily.
We have very little armed violence, and that is primarily criminals shooting each other with illegal weapons.
(They could need some training though. They are really bad shots!)

We could send you some of our criminals. we have plenty in every major city. They seem a bit crowded and irritable, perhaps they would enjoy your wide open spaces?

They aren't good shots either and don't know much about guns...as long as it is cheap and shiny, they are content.

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

The intention was never to use guns as toy, sports or tool, but to protect the state. The constitution was never about shooting trespassers.

Not sure what world you learned about in history class but, in point of fact, they didn't have "guns" but muskets. Muskets weren't used primarily for "protecting the state," but for getting dinner or protecting your family from a wandering bear or the like. It also came in handy when you had to put down a lame horse.
So, in affect, they were "tools" back then.

They DID have pistols, which, actually WERE used for sports, and while starting a horse race was a rare occasion, for two men to stand at 20 paces and duel with pistols; wasn't so rare. Does blood sports still constitute "sports?" I'd say yes.
They also had blunderbusses which was a form of handgun, or actually a hand cannon, but that was mostly issued to military people and was the favorite on-board pirate ships, but those were shorter versions which were more correctly called "Dragons" which developed into "dragoons" which is where that military unit got it's name.

It's true that the constitution wasn't about shooting trespassers, but in those days, if a father told his kids, the unlocked musket up over the fireplace isn't to be touched, his kids didn't touch it. Likewise, people didn't need signs to deter trespassers, because no one would think to do it. Despite every household had a musket freely available, no kid ever took it and in a bout of bored depression, shot up the local schoolhouse.

Then again, back then they also used to have public pillaries, branding, wooden horses (I forget their proper name), and simple hangings to deter socially unacceptable behaviors, so people didn't need to worry about trespassers.

But you are right, a gun was never meant to be a toy. They did have toy swords for kids back then though.