Verdict Watch – Open Discussion – Sat.

Tomorrow, Feb. 16, 2014,

would have been Jordan’s 19th birthday.

On Friday, the jurors had a question that has resulted in a wave of speculation. They asked;

“Is it possible to not reach a verdict on one count and reach a verdict on other counts?”

The Honorable Judge Healey’s answer is “yes.”

Judge Healey also had Dunn take oath and asked if he understood the question. Dunn stated that he did not. Judge Healey explained the question and possibilities to Dunn. This is important because there are already some people arguing that if the jury finds that Dunn committed justifiable homicide, then all other charges are dismissed. (This type of argument can be seen in the comment section on croakerqueen123’s Youtube channel.)

If you look at the location in both the front and rear passenger doors you will notice that Done Dunn would have had to been seated when they were made, because of his height. However if you look at the Durango with the dowel’s thru the holes in the door, I have questions about the sequence of the shots…

I agree that Dunn was seated for the first 7 shots….but could he have had his door opened while seated and shooting those 7 shots.

The front door holes in the SUV are at a sharper angle towards Dunn’s car. Therefore, I think the SUV was in the process of backing up as the front SUV doors were hit AFTER he had already hit Jordan’s door (the back SUV door.)

With Done Dunn’s being 6′ 4″ tall had he been out of the vehicle when the shots fired into the doors were taken they would have had a downward trajectory… However he could have had the door open on the second round of gun fire, and have been still in a seated position…But unless we end up with a hung jury and the case goes back to trial, it really does not matter…

My view is that he definitely was sitting in his car for the first 7 shots.

I am looking at the possibility that he had his door opened as he SAT shooting those first 7 shots.

When the SUV was backing up, the SUV’s FRONT passenger door was farther away (EVEN farther away than Jordan’s door HAD been in the ORIGINAL parked position) causing the shots to be angled pointing BACK at Dunn’s gun.

Yahtzee, Consider this for a moment, could the Durango have been actually moving ever so slightly when the first rounds were discharged? As far as the door being open on the initial discharge, it was stated that the Done Dunn’s car was so close to the Durango he could not open the door to exit the car…

Think for a moment, could the actual impact with Jordan have been the second round, when the Durango, stopped to move forward the angle of the trajectory as shown by the dowels and the evasive action being taken by Jordan could explain the wound locations…

Yahtzee, Let’s think about something for just a moment, ok? If the rounds thru the rear door were made first and the Durango began backing at five mph and there was a one second lull before the second round was discharged, the Durango would have moved approx. 7 1/2 feet. Is the angle of the trajectory correct assuming the vehicles were approx. 3 feet apart to start with? My thought is that the trajectory is not angled enough for the second set to have been the front door, but then again it is very possible that I am incorrect… Do the math and see what you come up with…

Driver saw the gun and was pulling Jordan toward him. That’s why Jordon’s first wound was up toward scrotum area. This shot would not have killed him.
This was a spree killing ( just not completed).Dunn pulled in beside SUV with loud music for one reason only to have an excuse to mow down people.

I missed it this morning, but my guess goes back to when Dunn was on the stand and he said there were 4 shooters in the van….when pressed he said 1 gun and 4 shooters….meaning if one drops the gun the other can pick it up and start shooting so he considered all the teens as threats.

Judge said we are in un chartered territory here as no jury has spent this amount of time and also states they are the hardest working jurors he has seen.
Also, denied defense motion to reread justifiable use of force to jury again.
This is a very fair judge.

First, Corey, wisely, asked for Judge to reread justifiable use of force law again to jury. In order, hopefully, to connect judge believes this. Judge correctly denied this with extensive explanation.

Three jury questions:
1.Then can jury CONSIDER justifiable use of deadly force and self defense as to count 1
Judge..yes can be considered. Just saying jury can Consider this. Not that it is applicable.

2. Question. Can justifiable use of deadly force and self defense be considered in other car occupants.
Judge…yes
Each charge is to be considered separately as a separate offense/ defense.again, just saying the legal statue allows for this to be CONSIDERED.

3. Questions…can they be intertwined. Translation can they consider Jordan started it and Dunn can argue this is justifiable for remainder of shots.
Judge…NO

Corey and state agreed to approve these to answer questions presented this morning by jury

Dunn protested..what an idiot…in open court that it was all intertwined and should not therefore be considered as discreet actions on his part.

Judge respectfully listened and explained why he was denying.

Dunn lost this morning. He wants his ridiculous pretend gun to be used as his defense to blowing away or attempting to blow everyone in car and this was denied.

I don’t understand why Fred’s law log doesn’t explain this cause they are thinking it means exactly the slam dunk for Dunn and it doesn’t.

Corey must be furious at his client because Dunn objected in open court and he was shot down in open court and on the record.
Dunn did not get what he so clearly and stupidly has now entered into open record , e.g., his objection that evidence of no gun caused him to justifiable open fire.

If the murder 1 is hung and state retries, this will be admitted into evidence against him.

Last bit, Florida has 10-20 for using gun in commission of a felony. If he is only convicted on counts 2-5 that is 60 yrs for counts 2-4 ( not sure time on 5) and with his age of 47 add 60 yrs. and he’s gone for life.

Have you got a good link to that portion? I have the site up, but can’t find that part on there… Ok, I admit it, I’m old, and right now my blood pressure would probably break the machine, so humor me and give me a link that works.. Thanks..

Yahtzee, Thank you for posting the link. I just walked back in, had to go for a long walk in an effort to get my blood pressure under control, but it has not worked, think I will sit and relax a bit before I watch the link… This case is trying to finish me off, and before it is over, might just do it….

George Zimmerman, the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who fatally shot Travyon Martin, told Spanish-language television network Univision that he is homeless and suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder.

His own doing,practically he was homeless before he killed Martin,his POS stress disorder won’t help him avoid his Karma!

Absolutely! It speaks volumes that he moved out of his house just after leaving the police station and moved in with the Osterman’s. Shellie had already left him and was with her dad.

In the bank statements, Shellie paid 2 months of rent from the donated money, making it reasonable to believe that they had not paid rent for the months of January and February and had been threatened with eviction.

I do not know why Univision decided that is worthy to watch a child killer declaring himself a victim!

George looks to people to enable him and without enablers, he is at the end of his existence. His Paypal account for the legal defense fund is closed. He can no longer be seen palling around with White Supremacists so now appeals to Latinos — Latinos who did not support him during his trial, but who are the only people remaining for him to try to deceive.

Thank you, Yahtzz!
It is mind boggling to me that leatherman’s blog does not explain what is issue. People were hearing it ” applies” and believing the Judge was, in essence, telling the jury how to render the verdict. When the question was ” can the statue of justifiable and self defense apply to consideration of the counts separately or can they be woven as one.

Why this ” lawyer” did not explain Judges do not instruct jury’s on a verdict. They instruct only on the legal statue. State and defense attorneys argue the issues and the jury then makes their decision.

The judge does not tell a jury how to apply their verdict.
Hope I’m making sense but he would /should be able to clearly differentiate what the questions and judge’s response mean to his blog followers.

I’ve watched the video of the question and discussions a second time. Since the jury is still out, there are several considerations, the first being that the judge’s answer did not help the jury reach a verdict because the question was not intended to help them reach a verdict.

What I suspect is that the question was presented by the one or several jurors who want to acquit Dunn of all charges and was being used to go back to the first count to re-argue that if they determine he is not guilty of murder, then there is no need to discuss the other counts.

Judge Healey’s answer in a nutshell is “no,” that each count is separate. He was very exact in his discussions before the jury came in to hear the answers that the “law requires” that each count is considered separately.

For Dunn’s position, he is trying to transform the trial into a SYG immunity hearing on the basis that if he was justified in killing Jordan, that he is immune for the other charges. So, let’s go back to what SA Corey argued; i.e., that there were 3 volleys of gunshots. My paraphrase — if Dunn was justified in the first volley, it doesn’t mean that he was justified in the second and third volley of gunshots. Judge Healey agreed.

IMHO, the jury is hung on count 1, and because of that, someone on the jury is trying to convince the others that the trial was actually a SYG immunity hearing so that other counts would not be considered and they would be hung on those as well. At the same time, someone on the jury is arguing that if Dunn was not justified in using deadly force against the other three in the vehicle, then it demonstrates his state of mind in firing the first 3 shots, and that takes them back to square one of count 1.

Of course, we don’t know their verdict on counts 2-5 but it is inconceivable he is not found guilty. So he’s locked up for life but nothing is resolved as to larger issue of can you just imagine a gun, kill , not call cops and not be found guilty of murder 1 or 2 or manslaughter?
That is just a terrifying society to live in. Wild West .

We saw it during voir dire in Zimmerman’s trial. Black men have no problem saying that they disagree with SYG, and that killing eliminates the only other witness.

Then too, in counties where Blacks are minorities, and Black men are less in population, they make up a very small number of those summoned to appear for jury duty. Add to that the number of minorities in jail or prison and those without driver licenses or who cannot register to vote because of having felony arrests. Add to this the number of Black men who are on active military duty because of the lack of jobs and inability to pay tuition to attend college.

Trickle-down institutionalized racism makes sure that there are less Black men available to serve on juries.

Yes, as with all prejudices. Let’s remember there was a time when women could not own property neither vote, nor serve on juries. That is why just before the Civil War, the Scarlet O’Hara syndrome was introduced.

People on Twitter are already upset at the possibilities and blaming SA Corey. Let’s not get distracted. It’s not SA Corey’s prosecution of cases. Rather, it’s biases of jurors.

Earlier today, an episode on Cops showed the arrest of a woman who knocked out windows at her boyfriend’s house, sliced him with a knife, and hit him with the mallet that she used to knock out his windows.

Her reason? Wait for this (tick, tick, tick). She and her boyfriend were in his bedroom. She was naked, his Black neighbor walked in, and her boyfriend did not beat his ass for “disrespecting” her.

In Zimmerman’s case, we heard how he was protecting his woman neighbor and concerned for his wife’s security. In Dunn’s trial, we heard him say how he was concerned for and protecting Rhonda. Those men know how to use the Scarlet O’Hara syndrome to appeal to the biases of White jurors.

Xena: People on Twitter are already upset at the possibilities and blaming SA Corey. Let’s not get distracted. It’s not SA Corey’s prosecution of cases. Rather, it’s biases of jurors.

Well Corey was part of selecting the jurors and she decided to soft-pedal Dunn’s racism by not entering his jailhouse phone calls and letters into evidence.

What she doesn’t seem to understand is that racists will be racists regardless and forcing them to see it won’t change anything.

I can only image that the juror who was ex-military with the eleven children was the one who lead the not guilty group and he may have been the foreman. At least the two black females stood firm and brought some more jurors to their side and didn’t allow the jury get away with acquitting Dunn.

Xena: In Dunn’s trial, we heard him say how he was concerned for and protecting Rhonda. Those men know how to use the Scarlet O’Hara syndrome to appeal to the biases of White jurors.

That was a Hail Mary on Dunn’s part but the fact is the jurors who didn’t believe Dunn was guilty of murdering Jordan believed that black teenagers are THUGS first, second and last. Besides, Rhonda was inside the store and no one cared anything about her.

I bet Rhonda was sweating bullets wondering if Dunn got off would come after her himself or hire a hit man to punish her for betraying him.

Well Corey was part of selecting the jurors and she decided to soft-pedal Dunn’s racism by not entering his jailhouse phone calls and letters into evidence.

That’s a hard call for State cases. According to his Facebook, Dunn is a sovereign citizen. There’s no law against that. Under the federal system, that would come into play as his ideologies formed his mindset to commit murder. So it comes down to a murder being a murder being a murder without the racial reasons that are relevant in committing a hate-crime under the federal system.

What she doesn’t seem to understand is that racists will be racists regardless and forcing them to see it won’t change anything.

No prosecutor can actually put racism on trial. It’s always the act that harmed or destroyed that is placed on trial. Please understand that I’m not disagreeing with you. It’s a matter of having a government and laws that do not cross that line of being thought police.

I can only image that the juror who was ex-military with the eleven children was the one who lead the not guilty group and he may have been the foreman.

It’s been reported that juror 7 was the foreperson. I don’t yet know who that was.

That was a Hail Mary on Dunn’s part but the fact is the jurors who didn’t believe Dunn was guilty of murdering Jordan believed that black teenagers are THUGS first, second and last.

It’s a package deal. In the same manner, it was said after the Civil War that White men were responsible for protecting White women from “savages.” And, let’s not forget that before that, Native Americans were called “uncivilized savages” for the same reason. The dog whistles and terms change, but the idea is still the same.

I bet Rhonda was sweating bullets wondering if Dunn got off would come after her himself or hire a hit man to punish her for betraying him.

HA! It wouldn’t surprise me if Dunn doesn’t blame her for wanting cheap wine as the reason it all happened.

foreperson was #7, the asian woman. i’d have to say she did as good a job as could possibly be done under the circumstances. her communication skills between judge and jury were WAY beyond any i have witnesses before. i have to assume she used the same skills inside the deliberation room.

Xena: That’s a hard call for State cases. According to his Facebook, Dunn is a sovereign citizen. There’s no law against that. Under the federal system, that would come into play as his ideologies formed his mindset to commit murder. So it comes down to a murder being a murder being a murder without the racial reasons that are relevant in committing a hate-crime under the federal system.

Didn’t Dunn basically admit to murdering Jordan because he didn’t have any use for thug culture and he stated that he is sure that others have wanted to do the same thing?

That proves premeditation right there. He didn’t murder Jordan because he feared him but because this was his chance to exterminate those thugs.

That proves premeditation right there. He didn’t murder Jordan because he feared him but because this was his chance to exterminate those thugs.

Yes, but he said those things in letters and not to the police. This is why his frame of mind in committing a hate-crime falls under federal, rather than state jurisdiction. The states have original jurisdiction to prosecute for crimes committed in the state that violate state laws. As we see with Zimmerman, federal jurisdiction comes in second.

I understand what you’re saying but it would have helped nailed down the premeditation part that was needed for the Murder 1 charge, and it would have gone a long way in negating Dunn’s lie that he killed because Jordan verbally threatened him.

Dunn didn’t murder them for anything they did, but because who they were.

understand what you’re saying but it would have helped nailed down the premeditation part that was needed for the Murder 1 charge, and it would have gone a long way in negating Dunn’s lie that he killed because Jordan verbally threatened him.

I agree, but there’s SYG with language that conveys there’s no need to do what is reasonable to avoid confrontation. That law renders murder 1 impotent because it provides for people to remain under circumstances and respond with deadly force.

Think of that law — it says that people don’t have the duty to retreat. They can stand and provoke conditions for a second, a minute or longer, then say it wasn’t premeditated because the other person was threatening them all the time until they felt they had no choice but to defend themselves.

People on Twitter are already upset at the possibilities and blaming SA Corey. Let’s not get distracted. It’s not SA Corey’s prosecution of cases. Rather, it’s biases of jurors.

you make an excellent point there, roderick. i am by no means a corey fan, frankly, some of her decisions baffle me. her total reluctance to bring race into the open is on the top of my list. i am very curious as to what is behind this — we have seen it twice and it is deliberate. i am willing to believe that bringing it into the fray runs a very real risk of alienating a portion of the jury who would like to think that they are not racist but who are in denial (a pattern i see far too often in my visits to southern states). this is just a guess on my part, but as i say i am baffled and curious.

i think the real big problems that any SA would have in these cases are what you mentioned (judicial bias) as well as bad/intensely confusing self defense laws. i mean, really, the way these instructions are written for self defense, if a defendant is completely delusional and sees imaginary weapons, jurors are to assume that the fear was real. well, being raised by an occasionally delusional bi polar — yes, his fears were very real *but to him only*. how in the name of all that is holy should a society be forced by state law to accept delusion as a defense to murder? that is sick.

although politically on the national front, florida is a swing state that leans left, at the state level, it is solid red due to district drawing shenanigans. i have to say, i do not really see any end in sight with horrific self defense laws and jury instructions as a result. i wish i could be more optimistic.

i will be clear though — i think the prosecution fought to win this one. there may be some things i’d question, but overall, their case was tight and well run. it’s the other variables (juror bias, SYG, jury instructions) which lead to the major chaos.

Jax. Criminal defense attorney said ANgela Corey overcharged by charging murder 1.
How that impacted trial is this put all focus on the murder 1 evidence and even though lessors were included, they were not explained to jurors.

Another criminal defense attorney said the verdicts may be sealed if jury returns with no verdict on first charge. He explained this has been done before in cases he has represented so as to not influence new jury. In his cases, new trial kept verdicts sealed for two weeks until conclusion of new trial.

The jury’s questions indicate that someone on the jury is trying to interpret law and procedures to the other jurors, and they are not buying it but taking it to the judge. At least the foreperson is bringing those questions, unlike in Zimmerman’s case where the foreperson did not submit a more specific question to clarify manslaughter and a jury of lay people decided the law.

mindyme62,
YES! Let the person in the black robe present the questions and suggest answers to the attorneys and answer the questions. Kudos to the foreperson for presenting the questions. It also helped us, the public, to hear the answers and understand the process and the law.

The sentencing is set for march but oh my Strolla may ” have other plans” like rebuilding his miserable law practice.
Recognizing he had no case, he still was a truly horrible lawyer and the public got to see this toad in action.

Did Strolla say that?? I don’t guess O’Mara would take the case now, after having said publicly that he believed Done would be found Guilty.. What’s Baez up to these days? Wonder what his take is on this case…

Well Guys…I was praying for a birthday gift of getting JUSTICE for this CHILD Jordan! I have had it with these people(I am still trying to be lady like) killing our Black children! Everybody can keep screaming about they got it right because of how the LAWS are written.I guess we need to throw away these laws & replace them with others.
This makes no sense to me, how these jurors can convict Dunn for attempted murder of the other boys,but NOT convict this same person for killing Jordan b/c of how some damn law! I just watched Ms Corey say she will re try the case.She needs to wait & see if she still has a job! This NUTCASE not only killed this child,but left the scene,ordered pizza,had himself a comfy evening(it didn’t seem to bother him either that he killed a child) was NOT going to tell anyone,etc.He is Racist…read his letters or just listen to him.Why are our White children any better than our White ones ? For some reason in our country Black lives just don’t seem to matter is how I’m feeling right now.Just flip this situation & see how fast Jordan would be put away for MURDER 1!
At this moment I don’t think I would care to hear the reason they voted this way.Another thing I am sick of is how hard everyone worked on these cases….isn’t this your job?
I will shut up for a few minutes & come back later.

Marilyn,
Dunn put his story together based on what he heard in the media, and while he was driving home. He also built his story on his interpretation of SYG. Just look at how he tried arguing with Judge Healey over the jury’s question. Evidently, Dunn thought that his trial on 5 counts was a SYG immunity hearing, and if the jury found him not guilty on the first count, they would have to find him not guilty on the other four.

Dunn never said, nor testified, that he felt any threat from anyone other than Jordan. That is what nailed his coffin on the attempted murder charges.

There was a march to AC’s office demanding her resignation. Both sides hate her. She caused this hung verdict by overcharging with premeditation, which is a requirement to be convicted of murder1.

Premeditation can be as little as one second under the statue but that is surely a reach for a fair and just jury so murder2 was never explained to jury and that became a real conundrum for them. It hung them and if I were on that jury, I would be unable to find guilty as to premeditation, legally that is.

He was looking for trouble as shown by pulling in beside the car with music playing when there were parking spots further down. Waited for honey pot to enter store and started what he was going to finish immediately.

She told detective he kept saying he was in fear for his life which is textbook words to begin a SYG explanation. No one says I was in fear for my life if they were actually in fear. More along, OMG, scared shitless or terrified.

I am also wondering why state did not charge him with buying wine from a gas station…maybe it is only a misdemeanor but still it has to be looked into. They totally blew that. 😉