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what is given?? the goal?? i think it doesnt matter, if u'r parents wanted u to be a doctor, and u accept the goal and actually like it also it still become u'r goal also...

i want to ask, if shikamaru never learn from asuma to protect the next generation will he do it?? isnt that goal is also a given?? or maybe u think if the goal is good and society accept it it become a true goal but if it wasnt accepted by the society it isnt??? for me thats cheating....

yeah, I don't think my opinion will change anything, but it's my opinion.
my point is that he is like a kid that being toyed by anyone for any reason, itachi's for protecting, madara for revenge, and maybe later we'll see more.
i don't see it's a matter whether or not society accept it.
look at orochimaru, I am not his fan, but his goal is really mad, call for destruction, yet it's his own thought that make him strong. and why we can argue that he fail to get to his ambition? because he never will, no one never will, except maybe for pain. orochimaru's ambition is limitless. that's why

I just confuse what I can I answer, too. I think you should put work on your grammar and on the tense you want to say a word. Unless of course, you're from another country and your english is limited. On that case, just think what you're going to say first, organize your thoughts and them post them.

If you can't do that...

...Don't post.

Instead of blaming the english... focus on what he was trying to say. Not everyone lives in 'your house'. English is not the global language so don't claim everyone speaks it, fluently. Hell, I bet there's more people that are from outside North America than ones in it.

Regarding the Itachi win and Sasuke fail in the fight, I have to agree with Slavkovski. It was a win-win situation for both of them. eg. If you have to assassinate a person, and they commit suicide. Indirectly, you win and you succeed with your mission.

Originally Posted by mayanaya

yeah, I don't think my opinion will change anything, but it's my opinion.
my point is that he is like a kid that being toyed by anyone for any reason, itachi's for protecting, madara for revenge, and maybe later we'll see more.
i don't see it's a matter whether or not society accept it.
look at orochimaru, I am not his fan, but his goal is really mad, call for destruction, yet it's his own thought that make him strong. and why we can argue that he fail to get to his ambition? because he never will, no one never will, except maybe for pain. orochimaru's ambition is limitless. that's why

That is true. It is actually the reason I have started to like Sasuke ever since that "my hatred" chapter. It seemed to confirm that he has a mindset that no one is controlling.

Instead of blaming the english... focus on what he was trying to say. Not everyone lives in 'your house'. English is not the global language so don't claim everyone speaks it, fluently. Hell, I bet there's more people that are from outside North America than ones in it.

My native language is Spanish. I'm not trying to insult him, but rather encourage him to use better grammar and to try to organize his ideas so they can be easily understandable. I really didn't understand well what he wrote, and neither did Hand Banana.

He was cool, really cool. And it was hard not to like him. Other then that, he was kinda of a failure. He said so himself, remember:

Spoiler!

Spoiler!

Not being able to save your friend is not being a failure. If your friend tries to commit a crime, and you try to stop him but can't does that make you a failure?

Not being able to date the girl you want does not make you a failure it makes you stronger for another chances with a different person

Not being able to defend your student sucks, but how can you consider him a failure because of that?

He said he was a failure compared to all those great shinobis who died honorably. In his way of thinking he thought he was a failure, but in the end he died the way he wanted to (read the last part when he is sinking in the pool)

Basically asides from what he thought of himself (bieng a failure), he lived a pretty good life