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JWH-018 Toxicology

Since my last post about the spice behind Spice (and other smoking mixtures such as Smoke, Serenity Now, K2, Sence, etc), it has been brought to my attention that some initial toxicology testing has been done on the synthetic cannabinoid JWH-018. Before we get down to the details however, here’s some pretty weird background information – the sponsor and provider of these studies wishes to remain anonymous! Unfortunately, this makes the whole thing a lot less credible, but since this is the only information we have right now, let’s hope someone else can verify these things at a later date. So far, one professor (who also wishes to remain anonymous) thinks these are real, but as of yet, no one is willing to put their name down on any kind of formal statement. If you, or anyone you know, has the relevant expertise to look over these studies, please drop me a line!

(Quick Update – A lot of people have been discussing and linking to this post, but there remains some suspicion that I have something to gain by saying the JWH-018 isn’t that harmful. Firstly, JWH-018 is now illegal in the UK. Secondly, as I mentioned just above this, if I have got anything wrong, please pick me up on it! If it turns out my analysis of the data is incorrect, I will correct it!)

Feel free to invent your own conspiracy theories, but for now, let’s take a look at the data. You can download the PDF documents in this Zip file [2.04 MB]

CYP450 Inhibition Assay

This first assay looks at the effect of a drug on specific enzymes in your liver. These Cytochrome P450 enzymes are responsible for metabolising the vast majority of drugs you might put in your body, so if you’ve got too much of one drug in your system (ie paracetamol/acetaminophen), then other drugs that are also metabolised by these enzymes (ie alcohol) may compete for these enzymes and so hang around in your system for longer. As you can imagine, it’s important to understand how one drug may affect the metabolism of another, in case of any disasterous drug-drug interactions.

Results: JWH-018 will probably interact with the metabolism of other drugs, so more in vivo work is necessary.

hERG Binding Assay

hERG stands for human Ether-à-go-goRelated Gene. This gene codes for a particular type of potassium channel found on heart tissue. This channel pumps potassium ions out of the heart muscle cells and are critical in coordinating the heart’s electrical activity. Unfortunately, these channels are a prime target for drugs to bind to, disrupting their function. This can lead to “Long QT Syndrome”, associated with fainting and can lead to sudden death, so you can see why these kinds of tests are important. Here’s a typical ECG recording showing what’s called the “QT interval” shown in blue, which lasts for longer than it should do if these channels are disrupted.

Results: JWH-018 does not interfere with these channels. That’s a good thing.

Cytotoxicity Assay

This simple test essentially looks at how many cells die when you perfuse them with a drug. The more cells that die, the more toxic the drug.

Results: JWH-018 is not cytotoxic at low concentrations.

GreenScreen HC Genotoxicity Assay

This assay looks at how much a drug will interfere with our DNA. Typically, anything that damages DNA is bad news, being potentially carcinogenic, making the rationale behind this test glaringly obvious. This test was also performed in the presence of a fraction taken from liver cells, which will break down the drug. This not only checks if the drug will damage DNA, but also its breakdown products.

Results: JWH-018 does not damage DNA, so shouldn’t give you cancer.

Rat Repeat Toxicity Assay

Guess what happens in this experiment. A number of renagade lab rats looking for a bad time are rounded up and promised free drugs (kind of like Pleasure Island from Pinocchio; that shit was scary!). The rats are then dosed up and observed. Initially, they appear lethargic (read: totally baked) but a few of them died at higher doses. This appears to be down to problems breathing rather than organ toxicity, but only affected the male rats, who appeared more sensitive to the compound. The drug didn’t appear to accumulate in their systems either, but they did lose some weight, probably because they couldn’t be arsed to eat. JWH-018 showed a huge potency and was found to be tachyphylactic (my new favourite word – it means that more of a drug is required to reach the same state following an initial dosage).

Results: According to FDA guidelines, the human equivalent dose is 0.016 mg/kg but it should be tested in other species before this can be seen as reliable!

Rat Pharmacokinetics

Data is collected on a number of different “pharmacokinetic” aspects of the drug, such as how it is absorbed, distributed throughout the body, metabolised and excreted, which can help with the design of future clinical trials.

Results: JWH-018 is distributed well throughout the rat’s tissues. Metabolism and excretion are normal, with a plasma half-life of approximately 2 hours

Summary

Well, from the looks of these tests, JWH-018 seems to be pretty safe, but unless you want to piss off Ben Goldacre, it would be wise not to rely on this “test tube data” entirely. Also, like I said before, we don’t know where this data has come from, clouding the issue even further.

Feel free to ask any questions in the comments.

Big thanks to Alfa @ Drugs-Forum.com for letting me know about these studies. You can read all about JWH-018 on their Drugs Wiki.

COMMENTS IN THIS THREAD ARE NOW CLOSED. YOU CAN CONTINUE DISCUSSING SYNTHETIC CANNABINOIDS HERE OR INDIVIDUAL SMOKING MIXTURES HERE..

444 Responses to JWH-018 Toxicology

Oliver are you saying you chose to try this for the first time while at work? I don’t think that would be such fun.

The first time I did it was exactly like the first time I ever smoked MJ…a little bit surprising and overwhelming….but ultimately a very classic analog experience, complete with ferocious snack munchdown at about the 2.5 hour stage.

Yeah, I would say if the mind can’t be calmed, and the body is not in a recreational place or state….maybe not ideal set/setting for initial discovery.

I’m trying to locate a legitimate online source of jwh-018 in the US but it is proving extremely difficult since none of the discussion forums I have come across allow vendor discussion. I understand that is the case for this site as well, but could someone at least provide me some hints/tips on how to find and select a reliable source that isn’t going to simply take my payment and disappear, or worse send me some other dangerous chemical that isn’t in fact jwh-018? I tried one of these herbal blends with jwh-018 awhile ago and really enjoyed the high it produced but would prefer to avoid smoking it and am interested in trying the method discussed here involving dissolving it in everclear. Thanks!

If you are looking for a reliable US source for certain researchchemicalz then make sure you do a good, specific google search and hopefully you will stumble upon a site that does indeed offer such researchchemicalz in the US. I can’t imagine it would be too hard to find the researchchemicalz you seek if you simply do the proper search for whatever researchchemicalz you are looking for.

If you are searching a reliable source that may not be US based but is still reliable, then once again I encourage you to do a proper google search, and hopefully you will find a place that allows you to buythemg . Surely there is at least one international provider that would let people buythemg if they are curious.

LOL X1, I got researchchemicalz too, should come up in a google search.

And yes I was at work but it’s my own place of business, I own it. Saturday afternoons are pretty much dead, nothing going on. I thought it would be a good time to give it a try. I tried even leaning back and closing my eyes, just couldn’t make myself relax, really sends your mind into overdrive. Does it do that to you too ?

I wouldn’t mind trying it again except for the fact that it lasts so damn long. For me, the full affects took an hour to hit and lasted 3-4 hours.

No, I don’t get overdrive brain. I get ganja-esque, well-toasted brain. I mean, it’s a perfect home run for my physiology.

Perhaps I can attempt some totally unscientific observation and speculation with regard to your experience.

You mentioned Mountain Dew as your drink medium. Half a cup? Was it regular Mt Dew, i.e. not diet or any other variant? I believe Mt Dew is heavily caffeinated. Even a little bit might get a brain that has been sensitized by new, novel chemical agents racing a bit. Not to mention, quite frankly Mt Dew has a bunch of other crap in it, most of it not so good.

You might consider going with straight 100% fruit juice next time.

Next unscientific speculation: ratio. You tilted more heavily to the 073, 2:1. Perhaps you experienced a JWH clash. Perhaps the 018 and its sativa-like brain high was fighting for traction against the heavier saturation of the indica-like 073 body high. Perhaps, in your particular neuro-pipes, 018 likes more of a fair fight, and protests loudly when outnumbered by 073.

You might think this a bizarre speculation…but I was struck by your comment about getting hungry so soon, within 45 minutes of onset. That doesn’t sit well. It makes me think that in YOUR system, 073 hits harder and causes a bit of thrashing. I am generally delineating 073 as much heavier on the body, including with respect to appetite.

Of course it’s possible you didn’t eat a full, well-balanced meal beforehand…which would be a no-no. Have a nice bit of pasta and veg at least an hour before liftoff.

You might consider a small test 50/50 sub-batch consisting of 125mg 018 and 125mg 073 dissolved in 100mL Everclear. Sounds like you have enough of all materials left over to give it a go. It would be a shame not to know if ratio really is the key.

There’s the possibility, too, that you took what might be considered a not-quite-breakthrough dose…meaning you took just enough to agitate, but not quite enough to push all the way over the hill to full, toasty burn, at which point the mind leaves off with its worrying and just enjoys the ride.

For me, there is a bit of mental fidgeting, and also increase in body heat, during that first 45-minute upslope…but all of that burns off in the grip of the full bake and it’s a good 3+ hours of kite-flying after that.

So, at the end of analysis, you did accumulate a little batch of variables different from my method and practice. Compared to me, you had:

And probably other differences that I can’t think of. Also I tend only to test at night, and kill most lights and noises. If you’re prone to get agitated by external stimuli, that might be another adjustment to consider.

Shame if you went through all this research and money and don’t find the right balance. But it’s supposed to be fun. No point in doing this if cost exceeds benefit. Do report back if you take another plunge.

I felt its necessary for someone to talk about what to do in case of an overdose. A while back, I had a bad panic attack from using too much. From my experience the first thing I did was drink plenty of water. If you are driving a car try to find a close friend or relitive close by. You don’t want to drive too far. Try to minimize your driving. It is very dangerious to drive if you OD on this stuff. Try not to panic as your heart rate will prolly go up. Your body temp will prolly drop and you’l need a blanket to keep warm. Personally I drank some milk and drank a fruit smooothy. You want to get some food in your stomach I think. This was just my experience. I’m not telling anywone to do what I did. I’m just explaining what helped me overcome my adverse experience. Because most people take this stuff litely. I think its very important to educate people on how to prepare and possible options on what to do in an overdose situation. Because a person in the wrong place at the wrong time on an OD of this could easily die! If an elderly person OD’s on this stuff they could die from a heart attack from rapid heart rate. This stuff is no joke!

I pity the elderly person who has decided, stupidly, to smoke an unmeasured amount of any strange chemical.

BTW, elderly people can also have a heart attack from having sex. And many other things.

Bottom line: PRECISELY MEASURE YOUR DOSE, whether smoking or diluting in a solvent. If you cannot obtain or afford the highly sensitive measuring device needed to measure a crystalline solid at the single milligram level, then please STRONGLY CONSIDER the non-smoking, liquid dilution method found in this thread.

Keep it under 10 mg for starters. Virtually every single panic attack horror story on the internet is from some yokel who decided to “guesstimate” their intake, with their eyeballs. You can’t guesstimate milligrams of fine grain powder with your eyeballs. FAIL. BAD FAIL. Don’t be stupid.

You weren’t specific. And since this is a JWH thread, and not a Spice thread, naturally I assumed…. There wasn’t anything in your post that made it clear you were talking about OD’ing on an herbal blend. How did you manage to do that, by the way?

Anyway, you can OD on anything. Caffeine…oxygen….mustard. Stop being hysterical. The best advice you gave was for people to lie down and have some juice.

J, you need to lie down and have some juice. Sometimes the ominous tone of your posts, and the constant harping on the “dark side” of JWH, (as opposed to Fusion, which is wonderful and miraculous and has no negatives, right?), makes it sound like you are suffering from chronic Spice panic attack flashbacks.

Lie down. Have some juice.

This is probably the main reason why people shouldn’t touch any blend crap anyway. Just buy the raw active chemical and control your own dosage. The more variables you control at home, the better.

I may not have the most precise method of using JWH-018… but what I do is simple and effective.

One gram of j8 is put in one cup of Everclear and stirred well, allowed to settle, stirred again, and repeated a few times over the course of an hour or whatever it takes to become totally dissolved.

17 grams of regular Sam’s Club dried parsley is put in a pyrex cake pan, and the Everclear/J8 mix is poured over it. Stir well, level it all out, and leave it in a room temperature place for a couple days, stirring it around a few times until it is dry.

You’ll end up with just about 18 grams of finished product. Usual dose is about a half of an 1/8 teaspoon — one moderate hit. Effects last a couple hours.

I am military and i tried happy shaman herbs once. The feelings were hard to explain. After that I waited until the morning time to take my morning piss for the at home drug test and it came out negative, but can it affect me over time or it just wont be on the drug test at all in navy??? Can someone who is navy give me their experience and what happened???

Based on the assays that are the basis of this thread (found at top), there’s no evidence that JWH-018 accumulates in your body over time. Rather it seems to be distributed and excreted in hours.

You do have to take this with a huge grain of salt…as these purported tests were done anonymously.

Hopefully everyone is actually downloading the PDF at top and reading the full assays for themselves. Here are some relevant bullet points from the results summary, which is the last PDF in the file:

Rat Pharmacokinetics Results Commentary:

• A rat pharmacokinetic study was performed by bolus IV injection at 5 mg/kg and blood was collected at various time points for 24 hours post-dose. JWH-018 showed a bi-phasic distribution suggesting both distribution and elimination phases. The clearance was consistent of hepatic blood flow rates in a rat of (55 ml/min/kg). The volume of distribution suggests that the drug is well distributed. No accumulation was observed.

• JWH-018 distributes well throughout the rat. It is metabolized and eliminated normally and shows a half life of ~2 hours.

dunno, got my researchchemicalz in, did the 151 everclear mix, 1.5g (1g 073, .5g 018) to 750ml, so 2mg/ml. I started taking 2ml at a time, waiting an hour, then 5ml, still nothing… i just knocked back10ml of the stuff. what’s going on here? the powder never completely dissolved! did i get took? tried vaping some of the 018…nada. the K2 works fine for me. not a troll.

No. You need the 190 proof. 151-proof Everclear is not sufficient. You can order the 190 proof online if you can’t find it locally.

pooh:

It is impossible to know whether your JWH was good or bunk. But it is clear from your post that you used the wrong Everclear. You need 190-proof, not 151. This is why “the powder never completely dissolved”.

Even in the correct 190-proof Everclear, repeated manual agitation by a human is required for the powder to dissolve completely. As is made clear in the described method. This is not difficult.

Furthermore, I don’t see why you used a full 750mL of liquid to dissolve 1.5g. My method described was for a total of 1g of agent (500mg each of 018 and 073) dissolved in 400mL of 190-proof.

If you were going to use 1.5g of agent, this would extrapolate to 600mL of required Everclear, if you were following the method. So you’ve got an extra 150mL of Everclear for your dissolved agent substrate, that you don’t really need. I suppose you were thinking that you wanted a flat 2mg per milliliter, for easier rationing…rather than the 2.5mg per milliliter of the posted method…I don’t know the thought process there but it seems unnecessary to dilute the agent above and beyond what is already verified as working.

However it’s a moot point if you use the wrong Everclear.

Can’t really comment on the vaping, as I’ve never bothered trying to smoke or vape this powder. Too imprecise and risky. I certainly wouldn’t advise continuing to drink more and more of the liquid in one sitting. You should have felt something after an hour with the initial dose. Contact the vendor and complain.

By the way, I can only vouch for the 1:1 ratio of 018 to 073.

What happens when you opt to tilt your ratio heavily in favor of one or the other is beyond me.

My original batch is still going strong and I have recently had some remarkable experiences hovering around the 5mL liquid dose level, which following the original method works out to about 12.5 mg JWH. But this only after careful incremental testing beginning at 2mL, once a week, and ramping up each subsequent week in half-milliliter increments.

There’s a good lesson here. The drink method is just as risky as the smoking method if you don’t use the proper solvent. How can you possibly know how much JWH you’ve truly consumed, if half your powder is swirling around in the mix? It wouldn’t take more than a few of the heavier crystals in the inadequately-prepped solution, if thoughtlessly or accidentally consumed, to tip one well over the 10, 15, 20mg threshold or beyond…

I would hope not to see any more of these half-assed experiments. Especially since all the solid info anyone would need to do this perfectly well and have a safe, great time is already typed plain as day on this very page.

For those of you using the jwh-018 by vaporizing, be very careful to use the proper dose. Not telling you to do that, its not for consumption 😛

but to put this into perspective without a scale, the tip of a 1/32 inch screwdriver when scooped into the powder looks like way too little product. NOT! You should use a scale, because that small amount is actually going to have a very strong effect (so I am told, not saying that I have done this, that is not legal). Just trying to help. For those searching for fertilizer for their banzai trees, do a google search for the pure product. dont waste your time with k2 and the likes. Its much cheaper to get in the pure form (90.00 for two grams and free shipping, or one gram for 45.00 plus shipping)

I tried this jwh it was fuckin crazy it felt like i was trippin my heart rate increased and I had a crazy brain high i thought i was goin to die for a minute. I must have used to much but then again it is new to me. A friend of mine has a lot of it and doesnt know what to do with it because no one wants to try it. So he gave me some and me an my buddies tried it crazy experince!!!!!!

i gave myself an at home drug test to see if i would pass after smoking k2 for about a week. i couldn’t tell if the test was inconclusive or positive. i was confused until my brilliant little brother asked, “did you smoke it out of a pipe with weed resin in it?”

wow. i felt stupid. but i haven’t tried testing myself again since buying a new pipe and using it instead

…just a suggestion to anyone else out there who might need to pass a drug screen and is smoking the legal stuff to avoid a positive result!

I have tried Spice.. A company from Kansas was raided with the stuff I bought. The company I purchased from disappeared also. I aquired 1000 mg of JWH-018. It’s fun but I’m not sure I will continue. A little goes…..well why repeat the applicable cliche.It will mess people up unless they really have a scale , sooner or later. A lot of people aren’t disciplined or they are careless at times. I’m not sure what to think about RC’s.

I think that they should use JWH in california to replace medical weed. If they did this it would be a positive and a plus for them chem. Its just unfortunate that people use it in an ignorant way and OD. I was ignorant myself in the early years. If they ban jwh 18 and 73, what about all the other JWH’s?? Hu-200 I think is banned but this is because its like 100 times potent then thc, that is on the dea’s website. I think if the vendors warned people of how potent the stuff is, they would have more respect and do a lot less.

JWH is like giving a noob driver an drag racer as their first vehicle. Most will crash and burn because they are inexperienced and think they are driving their grandma’s caddy.

I find it interesting that people sit here & compare spice to marijuana. I’ve never seen anyone get so high on weed that they went to the hospital. I’ve never seen anyone on weed need to monitor their intake like spice. My son became addicted to spice over the past several months. He became recklass & started to compensate for anxiety & heart palpitations with OCD’s. So now his addiction includes prescription med’s to compensate for how screwed up spice made him. He’s in treatment now, but still think spice is the best thing that happened to him. Is that the road you want to travel?

I’m sorry for your son’s troubles. But with all due respect, it seems you are blaming an inanimate object for the result of some poor choices made by a human being. Did Spice force itself into your son’s body? Did someone force him to smoke it at gunpoint?

Obviously people compare spice to marijuana, because the blend looks like marijuana, and the active chemical hits the same receptors in the brain. And there are thousands of people who can consume Spice, in moderation, or even in excess, without suffering the chronic dark spiral of addiction and health problems you say your son has.

Your son is just one person. Maybe there are some other people out there just like him, just as prone to fixate profusely on a substance until it breaks them down. But that’s not going to happen to most people. In fact, it’s not going to happen to the vast majority of people who use Spice or similar cannabinoid blends or pure cannabinoid chemicals.

Again, I’m sorry for your son, but your report of his downward spiral is, for this particular substance, the EXCEPTION…not the rule. This isn’t a hard drug AT ALL. It is nothing close to meth, heroin, crack…or even alcohol.

Tell me, how many people have died from “Spice addiction”? I’m waiting.

The only good point I can scrub up out of your fear-post is that blends like Spice should be avoided anyway, if one can readily obtain the pure cannabinoid and has the wits and simple materials to regulate and dose it with respect and precision.

Drugs are drugs, and people are people. Sometimes stupid people give good drugs a bad name.

X1, I think it is possible for someone to die from JWH-018. Because it has been proven that JWH increases a humans heart rate. If the humans heart cannot handle the heartspeed, the worst could happen, as I mentioned above with the elderly. I think JWH, spice, etc should be done in moderation to prevent the worst. I posted a link previously about a person that used 3 grams each day! 50 bucks a day! and when he got off, he suffered severe withdrawal symptoms. If anything, withdrawal should be done gradually. I know its possible for people to become addicted to this stuff because the feeling reported is bliss when done properly. Rats have died in lab reports from OD and humans can die as well from heart failure, heart attack, etc. People have suffered convulsions and seizures from this stuff which is very very serious.

After reading this blog post, it made me think twice about JWH-018 and the rest. This link discusses the long term symptoms of taking JWH. Long term is defined here as less than 1 year. I would assume the symptoms would only get worse if taken over a year. This stuff is pretty serious in my opinion.

“If the humans heart cannot handle the heartspeed, the worst could happen…”

-OK, Doctor Cardio. With fancy terms like ‘heartspeed’, I’ll assume you’re a trained cardiologist. Let’s agree that if someone has a weak heart, they shouldn’t do ANY drugs. Duh.

“I think JWH….should be done in moderation..”

-Yes. Wow. Shocker.

“I know its possible for people to become addicted…because the feeling reported is bliss when done properly.”

-If ‘bliss’ is the criteria for addiction, then we’re all hopeless addicts. One time I rode a roller coaster and felt bliss. Guess I’m addicted. Also, one time I had really great sex with this girl. You know what I felt? Bliss. Uh-oh. Better go to rehab.

“After reading this blog post blah blah blah…”

-I’ve read that thread before (and it’s not a blog, it’s a hugely visited forum).

You must be a very selective reader. What I find when I read that thread is a mix of people who use JWH/Spice stupidly, and people who understand the word moderation.

Here are some choice quotes from across the spectrum of that thread, with my comments after each:

“Swim liked the feeling from it so Swim used it every night after work(Swim works second shift) as a way to relax and get a good nights sleep. Into the second month swim began to notice that his tolerance was way up needing quite a bit of jwh018 to feel anything.”

-Stupid person was using daily as a sleep aid. This builds tolerance and dependence. Where’s the moderation?

“swim has been smoking blends and 018 for about 8 months heavily/daily now”

-Stupid. Oh my gosh, you abused a substance heavily and it gave you problems? Wow.

“Aren’t these the same symptoms as Cannabis withdrawal?”

-Haha. Somebody on the thread noticed it sounds like a bunch of hardcore potheads trying to quit pot. Go figure.

“yeah the rage started when swim bought a gram of pure 018 half way through the bag (he was drinking very heavily at the time also and hes not ment to be drinking, he cant control himself when he dose) of 018 he went nuts, and over the space a few week he completly wrecked a rented house and caused thousonds of euros worth of damage. he had been using smoking blends heavily around 2 to 3 grams a day bofore that. he stoped drinking, the rage stayed but not as bad and he just became more and more high strung. he had moved back home because he was out on the street for what he had done to the rented house. it just went to the stage where swim would not leave the house, the only time he would is when he would fly off the handle to avoid doing something he would regret (flight or fight sort of thing) or to go get more smoke. he became a real recluse, this recluse has happenend to swim before with benzo addiction but, so what ever that tells swiy. there was no real stress involved bar the anxiety caused from 018 and blends. swims not driving, hes on a driving ban and is umemployed no kids or responsibility at all really. swim stopped smoking mj/hash when he started smoking 018 it took complete control of him. he had been smoking mj/hash from he was boy. for around 15 years in all but never got rage from it, only when he was using mj/hash heavily and could not get any.”

-Now this person is a real fuck-up. Notice the part about the drinking, and the “benzo addiction”, and the years and years of chronic abuse. You can’t put anything down to JWH from this guy. This dude has lots of other issues. Chemically unbalanced and shouldn’t be doing ANY substances.

“shit swim forgot something, swim should of added he was also using cocaine and sniffing powders and from head shops which could of played a part in this, guess there are a lot of other factors that could of caused fits of rage. ivory wave was the most troublesome of them, gave swim psychosis and paranoia for about a week. theres a thread about it on here, the head shop where swim bought have taken off the shelf.”

-That’s from the same guy as the previous quote! GOOD LORD. This fool just dumps anything into his body he can find. I’m starting to get rage issues reading this moron’s posts.

“SWIM abused 018 & 073 for 3 months approx, getting through 5+ grams of each, very approx figures, not less.. Every evening , and weekend full abuse, then smoking during the day before/lunch at work. This was getting out of control. MJ is treated the same, cannbinoid more-ishness..”

-Abuse, abuse, abuse. I’m noticing a pattern where some people abuse the crap out of something well before they ever have any real physical problems. People are creating their own dependencies by immoderate behavior, and then reporting long-term negative effects as if surprised that there are consequences of abuse. But on balance these issues are in the same family as when someone heavily abuses reefer.

“To be honest You just described what swim went through with marijuana the first long time after he started smoking it.”

-Bingo. Which would make sense considering it lights up exactly the same part of your brain.

“6 mo. now — and common Asprin seems much more dangerous than JWH-018.No tolerance build-up, no sleep issues — nothing. SWIM’s PTSD seems to be in remission as well.”

-Interesting.

“There definately is a an addiction factor involved with daily abuse, mentally and slightly physically, but physically no worse than a crap cold. Not much fun, but nothing the average right minded SWIY couldnt handle.”

-Dear God, can it be? The Voice of Reason?

“Moderation and taking days off is key with this substance, at least in SWIMs experience.”

-YES. As with ANY SUBSTANCE IN THE WORLD.

“SWIM started out using match head amounts. They worked very well but after two weeks the dose needed to double and SWIM was doing it six times a day. After six months of smoking SWIM can use an a quarter sized amount and still not reach the desired affect. In six month SWIM smoked almost 15 grams of this shit. It got to the point where SWIM would wake up in the night smoke it.

Two days ago SWIM stopped because he realized he was severely addicted. In the first night SWIM experienced night sweats that had a very strong chemical odor to them. Appetite is nil. Restlessness is at an all time high. SWIM has zero appetite. SWIM can’t sleep. SWIM threw up the first night and the next morning when he quit. SWIM can honestly say this is worse than when he kicked his heroin habit (SWIM just snorted, SWIM prolly experienced 80% of the full heroin withdrawal).”

-This is the addictive personality type. Notice he’s already been around the block with heroin. Anybody using JWH six times a day has a problem in their head…it ain’t the JWH making them do it. You’re going to get sick off anything if you abuse it like that.

There’s a few more on the back end of the thread.

I noticed that in all those posts, nobody went to the hospital and nobody died. The worst, heaviest abusers had trouble sleeping, got night sweats, one guy had diarrhea, another guy puked.

Just woke up this morning. I decided to try the Gonjah herbal blend last night. The one herbal blend that cost $122.00 for 7 grams. The packaging and the product are all first class, especially the vanilla aroma. The high is an intoxicating high. You are high, but you crash and burn after one or two hour of smoking. The after effect is a hang over type feeling. There is this terrible dry mouth and the feeling that I have drunk several cases of beer. I am slow and dazed. The rest of the stuff in my pipe is going to be dumped out. I have built a little tolerance from these cannabinoids after testing a few of the products. This stuff is not for the weak. It feels just like I have been high for a long time and my body movement is out of sync with my brain. I need a cup of coffee.

I do not like this after feeling of smoking this stuff. I feel drunk and slow. I don’t have an edge to anything in life. Do I want more? Hell no. I want to smoke right now and all I have is laced JWH-18 products. I wish I had a product free of chemicals with 100% certified organic herbs that can get me a mellow high without the crash and burn after effects. Something to make me feel refresh and alive in the morning (without THC). Not something that makes my body feel likes it has been on a drinking binge. When JWH-018 or any synthesized chemicals becomes illegal in the US and a punishable crime for not listing it in the ingredients what will these makers do? They will go out of business because they hadn’t taken the research time to spend their money on finding an all natural organic herbal blend that exceeds any synthesized chemicals. Did you know that 80% or more of the world pharmaceutical drugs were synthesized from plant material? It’s time to go back to the plant. I still feel drunk. Have a good day.

Man, everyone wants to talk about overdosing on this stuff. I’m sorry, but that sounds pretty ridiculous to me. I’m kind of new to this stuff, been smoking it for about a month (not constantly. I smoked it a couple of weeks ago and I’ve done it the last couple of days), but I’ve had no serious problems with it. I seriously was bored up where I’m staying and decided to have a smoking spree on this shit, see what it was like. I started smoking Sunday March 7th (?) and finished Wednesday March 10th. That’s yesterday, in case you didn’t know.

-Sunday night I smoked about two matchheads worth, and not even at once. I got pretty fucking high, even felt like I was tripping a bit. No panic attack, no anxiety. I felt good.

-Monday morning I woke up at approximately 6:00 am, took a shower and did my daily routine and started smoking at 6:30. I smoked again at 8:30 am. Then once again at 11:00 am. This was still with approximately a matchhead size amount, or a simple one-hitter pipe. I smoked again at 12:45 pm. No anxiety, just calm, but I feel like I’m tripping pretty hard. This is some strong, long lasting stuff and now I’m just trying to keep my high going. I smoked again at 2:30 pm then at 6:00pm and then again at 7:00 pm and 10:00 pm. I came down from practically an all day high at 11:00.

I had the same routine every day and when I finally came off today I felt not ill effects, no breathing problems, and despite some hazy memory was pretty good. I feel no addiction to it and though I definitely want to do it again, I’ll probably not smoke that much. Not because of ill effects, but because I don’t need that much. I can smoke once or twice in a day, with that matchhead size and I’m good for several hours. I wouldn’t make this an everyday thing either. Maybe once a week or every other week. I’ll probably smoke again either this weekend or next weekend. Why not smoke it everyday? Its not because of health issues or any of that. Its the fact that me and my friends will literally trip on this stuff. Like a small dose of shrooms or something, its weird. I’m not the type of person that wants to trip all day every day and I feel no physical or mental desire to do so. Its good in small doses every once in a while just to feel good.

Which leads me to my question. Have any of you guys tripped on this stuff? I’m not talking about hardcore hallucinating, but a very mellowed out kind of trip.

Instead of whining that the JWH-product companies won’t get off their duffs and give you the magical perfect natural organic non-chemical herbal blend that makes you happy, why don’t you get off your duff and create it yourself?

I can tell you from my experiences with clean 018 and 073 (not any stinking blend) that the negative drunken stupor you’re experiencing from that Gonjah crap is NOT the signature of JWH. There’s all sorts of other garbage in many of these blends, and that’s what’s making you feel all the hangover mess. If you stuck with the pure RC and dosed it correctly, you wouldn’t have all that grief.

MachinaMaker:

At about the 12.5mg level I have had definite psychedelic activity of a very pleasant and mild, but acutely noticeable variety. Pristine closed-eye visuals that I would characterize as cascading, luminescent liquid of all colors and color-blends, but most striking because of the glow, as if backlit with soft warm lamps…retained for brief duration with eyes open. Not really a psychological trip (which I think is a good thing), but this visual element was effortless and substantial. A nice bonus to cap a transcendent, heavy stone, to be sure.

It feels like there’s a lot of bandwidth there, too. Like I could play around the 12 – 15mg range and have a perfectly safe yet deep swim. We’ll see.

Bearing in mind, this is through liquid ingestion. You say you are getting a mellow trip just from smoking? That’s impressive. Most smoke reports seem to be either the basic short stone….or WHOOPS PANIC ATTACK BECAUSE I WASN’T CAREFUL.

I made a mistake today. I smoked a shaving about 2.0 mg on rebel spice then another 1 mg 10 mins later then I vaporized a 2.0 hit in a small pint jar and hit it. That didn’t seem to work so i hit another 1.5 mg then got overboard. I called my son and waked around my neigborhood for 30 mins waiting for him to come over. He talked to me and we shoveled snow off the lawn to the street until I felt better. My respiratory system is down a little to Bronchitis so I ahould have abstained. I gave the remainding 700-800 mgs to my son to take away from me. He is going to make it into grams as he is needing clean UA’s. I hated the trippiness that felt like LSD. I know, I’m a dork for overdoing it . But I think it’s not meant for me due to I have a little anxiety as it is. So others be careful. Berny is no Ja Wah…ROFLMAO

I may try the Everclear method. But for me the smoking isnt the best. Or maybe stick with herbal blends. It makes me feel like I’m doing something really crazy when I smoke it. Feelings of isolation unless I am talking to someone. Paranoia isn’t my bag. Grass is much better than any synthetic. At least it’s real.

One would have to wonder what smoking a GRAM of it would do over the course of a night, but I suppose it COULD be done. But geeeze…

That’s about a $50 tab for an evening’s entertainment? Toooo rich for me! A gram of 018 will last me for MONTHS. Guess this 55 year old is Over The Hill for being such a WUSS… but I still regularly enjoy it, a few MICRO-TEENSY-GRAMS at a time.

No Tim, I’m in 50’s too and a gram would last me about 2-3 months. Teensie, but unless I get a scale I’m going to not partake. Needs to be accurate for lightweights like us. The way it concentrates from the shoulders up and the lower body feels so dead is the weirdest feeling. Some people just like to party hearty. I just like a little mood lift. For example, I love drinking Caribou Lou’s and I only drink 2 in an evening. Just right! Caribou Lou- Caribou Lou is 1 1/2 parts 151-proof rum, 1 part coconut rum, and 5 parts pineapple juice. Combine these ingredients together in a mixing container of your choosing.

x1, it’s such an awesome clean euphoria – I think because 151 is so clean. I don’t drink more than 3 “lou’s” in an evening and no hangover at all. Malibu Coconut Rum is best…MMMM..I may have to get some 190 everclear. If I have approx, 700 Mg of Pure JWH-018 ( I’m sure it is ) how much everclear for 2 Mg doses with the JWH-018, and can you evaporate it off ( about 1/2 of the total liquid amount removed and added to Damiana ) and then how would you calculate a smoking amount from the dried matter? Thanks and cheeers on your Caribou Lou “fusion” !

Well, for 700mg of 018, you would dissolve that in 350mL of 190-proof E for a solution that gives a 2mg dose per milliliter.

At this point I’ll just throw in my usual recommendation that 018 plays beautifully with 073 at a 1 to 1 ratio, and that’s the only way for me….really can’t vouch for 018 solo. Seems mostly to be a straight head high….I’d recommend balancing with an 073 body high to counteract the isolated mindfuck.

Sure you can evaporate off 190-proof E, but the amount of herbal substrate you use is going to determine how much JWH is shot through per gram of bud. I’d recommend going over to drugs-forum and reading up on the make-your-own-blend teks, because you don’t want to half-ass it and get a half-dunked nug from insufficient solution bath, and be hit or miss on your vapes.

And that’s basically why blends suck, even make-your-owns where you control everything. More steps, more variables, more materials…putting you further and further away from the absolute certainty and essence of the raw active chemical…for essentially nostalgic reasons. My thought is…why spend so much time and energy trying to dress up a bleeding-edge synthetic to make it look and feel like reefer? Reminds me of what Allan Holdsworth would say about playing out with the Synthaxe…people always wanted him to make it sound like a Strat.

Thoroughly dissolve. Til you see not a single speck or grain in the fluid. May need to scrape around a bit with a wooden spoon, since a small amount likes to collect at the bottom. Just keep scraping and mashing that little tiny pile of grains at the bottom…it gets smaller and smaller til there’s nothing left and its all dissolved.

You now have 400mL of a solution that comes out to 2.5mg of JWH per milliliter of fluid.

Test first with 2 milliliters. This is a 5mg JWH dose (2.5mg per milliliter, times 2). Wait 30 min (probably less, you’ll feel it coming on surprisingly quick). Do NOT multi-dose during the same session. If you feel nothing, or very little, relax and test again another day. Go have a Caribou Lou. Or three. People get in trouble with this stuff when they double and triple up in one sitting.

I have the full method typed up in my first post way up in this thread somewhere.

I bet there are a lot of people trying this liquid thing with just 018. I swear you need 018 and 073 together to slice all the hard edges off the experience. Very mellow, complete, and good.