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Topic: Age of Consent topic (Read 8765 times)

ok, i know that there are some countries that have lower age of consent around midteen and some like the USA is around 18. In some places like the Middle East has it a lot lower i think. Two questions is this; why do is it that US prefers it 18 and some Europe has it 15 or 16? Are young teens more likely to understand the romantic relationships just as adults can?

The reason i ask this is because i'm confused about the age of consents (As well as those who can drink or smoke at certain age). Plus, i thought it might be a good way to discuss the issue about this.

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Me:What are you looking at Eminem?Brother: Nothing, Harry Potter.

I love to read books, just not your Bible. i support gay rights and women's rights. Why? Because i'm tired of the hate, stupidity, and your desire to control us all and make up lies.

I think it has a lot to do with grabbing votes. Telling the public that you want to raise the age of consent makes them think you're supporting responsibility and morality, so they vote for you. And of course there's no downside, as the only people affected can't vote against it. Other countries have lower ages of consent because their people don't vote on every single issue like Americans do, and the legal age of consent is decided by tradition.

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"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

ok, i know that there are some countries that have lower age of consent around midteen and some like the USA is around 18. In some places like the Middle East has it a lot lower i think. Two questions is this; why do is it that US prefers it 18 and some Europe has it 15 or 16? Are young teens more likely to understand the romantic relationships just as adults can?

The reason i ask this is because i'm confused about the age of consents (As well as those who can drink or smoke at certain age). Plus, i thought it might be a good way to discuss the issue about this.

ok, i know that there are some countries that have lower age of consent around midteen and some like the USA is around 18. In some places like the Middle East has it a lot lower i think. Two questions is this; why do is it that US prefers it 18 and some Europe has it 15 or 16? Are young teens more likely to understand the romantic relationships just as adults can?

The reason i ask this is because i'm confused about the age of consents (As well as those who can drink or smoke at certain age). Plus, i thought it might be a good way to discuss the issue about this.

ok, i know that there are some countries that have lower age of consent around midteen and some like the USA is around 18. In some places like the Middle East has it a lot lower i think. Two questions is this; why do is it that US prefers it 18 and some Europe has it 15 or 16? Are young teens more likely to understand the romantic relationships just as adults can?

The reason i ask this is because i'm confused about the age of consents (As well as those who can drink or smoke at certain age). Plus, i thought it might be a good way to discuss the issue about this.

Here in canada, it is or wss, in some provinces as young as 14.

I think, 18 should be the age you can 1) vote, 2) join the army and die for country 3) drink and 4) have sex with whomever you want.

I see these as being related. You are an adult and rights/responsibilities come together

I find it morally offensuve to allow somebody to die at 18 but not to drink.

Society has to recognise that teens have sex and allow peoole close in age not to be considered rapists for it.

In our society, having sex and possibly getting pregnant under 18 are far from beneficial. Biologically, the muslimsmight be right to start with puberty but in general that is not in the best interedts of the minor.

We ,ive in a complex society and most who do that too young will regret. A older person is more likely to take advantage. As such,the law protects the minor.

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"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

Thank you for starting a thread on this topic Tim. Gnu Ordure directed a question at me yesterday on another thread, challenging me by citing younger ages of consent in a variety of European countries, and suggesting that I am subjected to a cultural bias. I don’t think he will mind if I address his questions here, because I agree that this topic is worthy of its own thread.

As I stated in a previous thread, my concerns about the sexual exploitation of children have to do with power imbalances. There is often a huge disconnect between laws and practices, and the realities are often much to complicated to be addressed via legislation or executive dictate. Sexual exploitation of children is certainly a problem worldwide, and it exists in all nations, regardless of legal age of consent. However, because I believe that the sexual abuse of children is much more prevalent in societies that have intrinsic power imbalances.

@ Gnu Ordure - I don’t pretend to know a lot about Scandinavia, other than the countries are extraordinarily egalitarian, with strong social structures, exceptional education, exceptional access to health care, and low degrees of disparity between the wealthiest and lowest income residents. My understanding is that there are very healthy sexual attitudes, with laws that offer both exceptional freedom coupled with strong protections.

Spain? I don’t know for sure, but I would suspect that many of the current laws are leftover from the Franco years.

There are some countries that I know a little bit more about. Guatemala, for example. In Guatemala, anywhere between 21% and 29% of children between that ages of 7-14 are in the workforce. For those of you not familiar with Guatemala, there continues to exist a semi-apartheid system, with a huge Mayan subclass, and a small ruling class of European ancestry. About 8% of Mayan girls are lucky enough to land a job as a domestic worker, freeing them from the toils of following the crop harvests or exposure to dangerous conditions in factories. They get to live in houses with running water, solid roofs, and sometimes even get to sleep in a bed as opposed to the traditional hammock or mat. They get rice and beans and those thick, Guatemalan tortillas, sometimes several times a day, as well as kitchen scraps and leftovers from their patron’s table.

There are no statistics about sexual abuse of domestic workers in Guatemala, (that I know of) but I can say with absolute certainty that the majority of 9 or 10 year old girls who put in the normal 3-4 years in a household will not leave as virgins. The typical scenario would be the male head of the household. But it could be the teenage son. Or a dinner guest. Or even a male domestic worker who is higher in the pecking order. It is about power.

Afghanistan has a really different social system, and very different sexual standards and practices. Although the legal age of consent (marriageable age) is 16 for girls, between 60%-70% of girls are married before 16. The numbers are higher in the tribal regions. Because virgins are commodities, girls rarely marry the farmer boy next door. The typical marriage is arranged, and young virgins are given in marriage to pay off debts or solidify alliances between extended families, usually to much older, established men. Wealthy Afghan men have other socially acceptable sexual options available to them during those times that their wives are pregnant or menstruating or once they get too old to be interesting. Bachi bazi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_bazi are prepubescent boys who are bought and sold and traded to friends for entertainment and sexual purposes. It is about power.

I think it has a lot to do with grabbing votes. Telling the public that you want to raise the age of consent makes them think you're supporting responsibility and morality, so they vote for you. And of course there's no downside, as the only people affected can't vote against it. Other countries have lower ages of consent because their people don't vote on every single issue like Americans do, and the legal age of consent is decided by tradition.

You raise fair points here. I knew a girl, in university, who happily told me that she had sex when she was 11 and another who had it at 14 with a 30 year old. By their own admission, they were not raped. Still, had they become pregnant or been manipulated by power imbalances or whstever ...

If the law recognizes teens will have sex with each other, which is not advatageous, but holds adults responsible, i still think in our society, that is in the best interest of the teens.

I do not see a huge number of teens protesting to be allowed to seduce 30 yesr old men. It happens but often it is an abuse scenario. The best interest for a teen is career pfeparation, whstver sexual desires a teen can have, a mature adult, should know this.

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"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

wow Quesi, thanks. I think that many people have different ideas about what age it should be for many things. For some stuff like gambling, it says no one should be below 18 to play. I don't understand why. When it comes to drinking alcohol or smoking, i do wonder why some thinks you should be 21 to drink and 18 to smoke (From where I live in Arizona).

As for the sexual relationship between adults and young teens, it does seem to be a bit more of power i think. I recall some folks who said thast they choose some younger guys at are 18 because they are "more beautiful and younger" which makes me wonder if they value people or just appearance.

You raise fair points here. I knew a girl, in university, who happily told me that she had sex when she was 11 and another who had it at 14 with a 30 year old. By their own admission, they were not raped. Still, had they become pregnant or been manipulated by power imbalances or whstever ...

Happily told she had sex at 11. I would have been going insane. I'm not sure even at 11 they understand anything. Sounded more like taking advantage of them.

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Me:What are you looking at Eminem?Brother: Nothing, Harry Potter.

I love to read books, just not your Bible. i support gay rights and women's rights. Why? Because i'm tired of the hate, stupidity, and your desire to control us all and make up lies.

The age has probably risen as part of some undefined cultural evolution. A hundred years ago they would have scoffed at waiting that long to get married (they weren't allowed to scoff at just plain sex. That absolutely never happened back when everyone was moral ) I had great-great and beyond grandparents that got married at 12 and 14 and 16, and that was the norm.

Much of what we now call childhood (through the high school years) is a fairly new phenomenon. In some cultures, there is almost no such thing. There are places in the world where you are a working stiff by the time you're six. If not at a factory, at least on the farm or in the garden. I read a book by a guy who was a kid in the Soviet Union and by the time he was six his only job was to walk back and forth the mile or two to the nearest well and get buckets of water. He did that all day, every day. I guess he eventually started going to school too, but he still had to get water.

Extended childhood is a luxury. And that probably turned public school into a babysitting business. Which is why you get taught the same damn thing over and over as you move up the grades. Which makes kids bored. Which, when combined with hormones, watching pretty girls on the Disney channel and actually wearing the clothes you see in The Gap causes certain things to happen. Toss in people over 18 getting involved and the capacity for things to turn ugly, by modern standards, increases.

I don't know if they still do it in Utah, but it wasn't that long ago an 86 year old guy from Texas or wherever could go to Utah with his 12 year old girlfriend and her mom (I'm speaking Mormon here) and get married to her legally.

(Oh, heard a great one. Religion is like a movie with sequels. The jewish version is movie I. The christian is movie II. Muslims are movie III. And mormons wrote the fan fiction... Well, I thought it was funny.)

Anyway, people who love rules will come up with stuff like ages of consent. The inconsistency comes from having different people who want rules, not anything logical.

Personally I'm hoping the raise the age to 60. Mostly because I know a couple of hot 59 year olds that would be more fun if they had something to look forward to.

What's that sound I'm hearing. Sounds like a bunch of people are throwing up. Weird...

The age has probably risen as part of some undefined cultural evolution. A hundred years ago they would have scoffed at waiting that long to get married (they weren't allowed to scoff at just plain sex. That absolutely never happened back when everyone was moral ) I had great-great and beyond grandparents that got married at 12 and 14 and 16, and that was the norm.

Well the life span back then was a lot lower. But of course, maybe it's just how i feel.

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Much of what we now call childhood (through the high school years) is a fairly new phenomenon. In some cultures, there is almost no such thing. There are places in the world where you are a working stiff by the time you're six. If not at a factory, at least on the farm or in the garden. I read a book by a guy who was a kid in the Soviet Union and by the time he was six his only job was to walk back and forth the mile or two to the nearest well and get buckets of water. He did that all day, every day. I guess he eventually started going to school too, but he still had to get water.

Yeah i also thought about what age children should be to start working. I remember when i was little, in my middle school i was paid to take trays after cafeteria lunch and wash it. I don't have a problem with the idea of children working at younger age, i think that could be better. But i can be wrong.

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Extended childhood is a luxury. And that probably turned public school into a babysitting business. Which is why you get taught the same damn thing over and over as you move up the grades. Which makes kids bored. Which, when combined with hormones, watching pretty girls on the Disney channel and actually wearing the clothes you see in The Gap causes certain things to happen. Toss in people over 18 getting involved and the capacity for things to turn ugly, by modern standards, increases.

I don't know if they still do it in Utah, but it wasn't that long ago an 86 year old guy from Texas or wherever could go to Utah with his 12 year old girlfriend and her mom (I'm speaking Mormon here) and get married to her legally.

(Oh, heard a great one. Religion is like a movie with sequels. The jewish version is movie I. The christian is movie II. Muslims are movie III. And mormons wrote the fan fiction... Well, I thought it was funny.)

yep, i would agree with that.

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Anyway, people who love rules will come up with stuff like ages of consent. The inconsistency comes from having different people who want rules, not anything logical.

That's what i'm guessing. Figures, it wasn't about common sense or logic, but different opinions and beliefs.

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Personally I'm hoping the raise the age to 60. Mostly because I know a couple of hot 59 year olds that would be more fun if they had something to look forward to.

What's that sound I'm hearing. Sounds like a bunch of people are throwing up. Weird...

Well that won't be me throwing up, i have no problem with that.

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Me:What are you looking at Eminem?Brother: Nothing, Harry Potter.

I love to read books, just not your Bible. i support gay rights and women's rights. Why? Because i'm tired of the hate, stupidity, and your desire to control us all and make up lies.

Not too long ago, early/mid 20th century. Tennessee's age of consent was 12 years old. Actually, many girls at that age got married, and then had babies. A law eventually was passed making it illegal to marry a girl so young, and I'm sure the age of consent soon followed. But, it was common, and normal for such things.

Anyway, thought I'd share. Here in Florida, I think it's 16 but the person can be 5 years older than the younger one. I don't know, I forget.

Happily told she had sex at 11. I would have been going insane. I'm not sure even at 11 they understand anything. Sounded more like taking advantage of them.

I hope my poor grammar did not disguise my meaning.

She told me, when she was in her 20s that her first boy friend seduced her when she was 11. As an adult, she had no regrets about the other encounter.

Personally, i thought and i think, that is too young.

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"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

In Belgium, it's 'the full 16 years', which legalese for 17. Fairly recently the addendum of 'comperative age' was added (conveniently omitting just how comperative the age has to be).In fact, our current prime minister was accused of pedophilia. Turns out he had had sex with his boyfriend when he was 17 and a bit and the boyfriend was 16 and a half or somesuch. Which neatly demontrates why one hard limit simply doesn't work in all cases.Basically , the principle is, wait until the younger partner is old enough to make an informed decision. And in the absence of a formal way to discern exactly when someone is old/wise enough, the somewhat flexible limit of 17 has been imposed.Now, keep in mind that in Belgium, sex education is part of the official curriculum for ages 11 through 18 (though religion based schools[1] try to avoid it). Absent sex education, I guess teen pregnancies/STDs would skyrocket.

When I was one month past my eighteenth birthday, I had sex with someone nine months younger than I was -- that is, I was 18 years and 1 month old, she was 17 years and 4 months old. In the state we were living in at the time, that was lawful, but in other states, such as Idaho or California, it wouldn't have been; in fact, in Idaho, it could theoretically have been penalized with life in prison (!) This in spite of the fact that, if we had done exactly the same thing five weeks earlier, it would have been perfectly legal in either of those jurisdictions.

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[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]: Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

"Age of Consent" is a metaphorical barrier based on the laughably false assumption that, as people grow older, they become more knowledgeable and responsible. If people aren't responsible at 17.999999999999999999999... years old, why would they be responsible at 18? Or 19? Or even 20?The only logical way to try[1] to dictate this would be with a psychological evaluation. Responsibility doesn't grow on bones, as far as I know; why would age matter?That said, given that contraceptives are not 100% reliable and that psychological evaluations are expensive and slow, an average age for when the body is actually prepared for sex/pregnancy would also be logical, as well as an average age for when people are capable of starting a family. But only if you really want your arbitrary line to be somewhat less arbitrary.

Personally, I couldn't care less. If I like someone, I don't care if they're 16 or 50. I like, I (try to) date (and have sex with, if it comes to that). That's all there is to it.[2]

Note that this specific standard only applies to me because I can't like people who can't understand love and/or can't have a real relationship. The standard would have to include those things to apply to everyone else.

« Last Edit: June 11, 2012, 06:46:12 AM by One Above All »

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My names are many, yet I am One.-Orion, son of Fire and Light, Sol Invictus.

It is not so much on the false assumption as to when a person becomes legally responsible for themselves.

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"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

So you take each and every single one of these "barriers" and subtract 1 day and the person involved is clearly clueless in everything till they get that 1 day back.

People mature at different rates, some ahead of the curve but for most, behind it. I've known people over 60 that don't act resposibly regarding drinking. There are guys in thier mid-twenties to thirties that when they get turned down by a chick they asked out they throw a temper-tantrum like a two year old. Yet each and every single female endures the beratement, including the sexual harassment, thinking that they're the only person he did this to, and if they don't do anything he'll magically realize it's wrong and not do it again.

Should there be? I believe so. It protects those from being unable to make an informed decision. Should they be based soley on a specific age? I think not. I think they need to demonstrate that they know what they need to know, are capable of making an informed decision and, if worse comes to worse, able to take responsibility for themselves: financially and otherwise.

As a 17 year old living in the UK, the age of consent here is 16. I agree with that. Indeed I know that my girlfriend's old school contains people who wanted to have babies aged 14. Indeed there are some girls there who are pregnant in year 10 (aged 14).

There is a problem with the age of consent though, I've heard that weirdly there is no age of consent for two girls having sex with each other in the UK, due to a peculiarity in the law, although statutory rape can still be applied as a verdict if a case goes to court.

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"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative."

"Age of Consent" is a metaphorical barrier based on the laughably false assumption that, as people grow older, they become more knowledgeable and responsible. If people aren't responsible at 17.999999999999999999999... years old, why would they be responsible at 18? Or 19? Or even 20?

Would they be less responsible at age 16? 15? 10? It's not a matter of responsibility - if it was, it would have been called age of responsibility.

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The only logical way to try[1] to dictate this would be with a psychological evaluation. Responsibility doesn't grow on bones, as far as I know; why would age matter?

Because you have to draw a line somewhere. There are kids that are extremely mature at 10 and there are supposedly normal adults who are completely infantile at age 50, but the vast majority of people gather enough life experiences and knowledge to give informed consent about something as potentially problematic as sex around the age of 15 in my opinion.

As I've already commented, the age matters because it's a line that simply has to be drawn. Just because a girl got her period and a boy god a stiffy doesn't mean the latter should put his aforementioned stiffy in the former's appropriate orifice. The stakes are simply too high.

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That said, given that contraceptives are not 100% reliable and that psychological evaluations are expensive and slow, an average age for when the body is actually prepared for sex/pregnancy would also be logical, as well as an average age for when people are capable of starting a family. But only if you really want your arbitrary line to be somewhat less arbitrary.

And when is the body prepared for pregnancy? After the girl's first period? You know, that would be a no. The safest time to get pregnant is after puberty, so when a girl's body is fully developed. That would be around the age of 18.

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Personally, I couldn't care less. If I like someone, I don't care if they're 16 or 50. I like, I (try to) date (and have sex with, if it comes to that). That's all there is to it.[2]

Note that this specific standard only applies to me because I can't like people who can't understand love and/or can't have a real relationship. The standard would have to include those things to apply to everyone else.

Some people do care. Parents, for instance. They don't like having their daughters having sex until they're old enough to know what they're doing, know how to protect themselves and, last but not least, know how to say no.

There are kids that are extremely mature at 10 and there are supposedly normal adults who are completely infantile at age 50, but the vast majority of people gather enough life experiences and knowledge to give informed consent about something as potentially problematic as sex around the age of 15 in my opinion.

There's classes. Thirty minute lectures. If you need more than thirty minutes[1] to explain to kids that sex without protection is bad, you're not doing your job right.

And when is the body prepared for pregnancy? After the girl's first period? You know, that would be a no. The safest time to get pregnant is after puberty, so when a girl's body is fully developed. That would be around the age of 18.

They don't like having their daughters having sex until they're old enough to know what they're doing, know how to protect themselves and, last but not least, know how to say no.

Bold mine.There's that age thing again. Age does not make one more intelligent or responsible. It's a false assumption based on the tribal belief that elders are given magical powers and/or knowledge from the gods.

AoC and that aren't always the same. In fact, I'm willing to bet that, most of the time, the age when a person becomes legally responsible for themselves is higher than AoC.

I didn't say they were the same. I said, they should be. In some states, the age of concent is I believe 21.

I think we have to recognize that people of the same age will have sex and not criminalize it.

However, adults, with a significant age difference, should be held accountable, unless their partner is truly an adult.

The drinking age in the US is 21. I believe it should be 18. 18 is also the age where you can die in the army.

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"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

We're not just talking about responsibility here. We're talking about young people getting hurt. People talk about sex education as if its all about contraception and what parts go where. It should also be about knowing yourself well enough to know what you want. It should be about how to say "no" to someone who's pressuring you into more than you want to give. It should be about caring and sharing and boundaries. But its not. And I know a lot of women who were pressured into things they were not ready for. These pressures are often very subtle, but to an insecure young woman they are very powerful.

I understand that the age is arbitrary. But the human brain simply doesn't mature very fast. I tried to find the info but I haven't found it yet. I seem to recall that one of the important parts of the brain re: decision making isn't mature yet, even in the late teens.

I believe it would be possible to teach our children well enough that we might not need so many legal controls on what they can do sexually. I believe we are nowhere near that level of maturity as a species. You throw in religious nut jobs who think its ok to prohibit sex education at all, and you have a recipe for disaster. As I understand it, the more a person is educated about sex, about options, about boundaries ... the longer they tend to wait, and the more responsible they are about contraception and being kind to one another. That's certainly been the case in my extended family. The right wing christian young-earth creationist nutjobs have tons of teen pregnancies in their families. The "men" aren't anywhere to be found, and these children are raising their babies with their parent's help. Education is disrupted, and often not re-started. Their lives and potentials are forever stunted. I find it very, very sad.