Ron, natural-al...thanks for the info. I do understand DC a little bit. I talk to someone Mr.Dante trains or has given advice to and he lets me pick his brain. So intense stretching of the muscles is required? Weird cuz Arthur Jones and Mike Mentzer spoke AGAINST stretching.

Does it have to do with the muscle fascia?

Ron...you would concur with the me saying that even with DC style of training...the legs need more overall reps and volume, correct?

Ron, natural-al...thanks for the info. I do understand DC a little bit. I talk to someone Mr.Dante trains or has given advice to and he lets me pick his brain. So intense stretching of the muscles is required? Weird cuz Arthur Jones and Mike Mentzer spoke AGAINST stretching.

Does it have to do with the muscle fascia?

Ron...you would concur with the me saying that even with DC style of training...the legs need more overall reps and volume, correct?

DC recommends "extreme stretching" after every body part, the concept is the same as what john parillo was talking about a few years back but the ones DC uses are more "user friendly". There is a good thread about them over at IM, it covers how to do them with pics and a pretty good explanation. Some of the stuff Parillo had you do was good but some of it was...well, painful. Remember "skin the cat"? If I tried to do that now I'd rip both shoulders out of thier sockets and be out of action for weeks. yes the stretching does stretch the fascia and it also improves recovery.

I won't speak for Ron but I do believe legs require more work than most other BP's, I'm talking quads here. The standard protocol is to do one "really heavy" set of 4-8 reps-maybe a little higher rep range but the thing is you keep on working at increasing the weight on this set. Then you'll do a high rep "widowmaker', these are still heavy and can be real ball busters, depending on how much you want to put into them. I've gone up to 50 reps for my widowmaker and it was brutal. Right now I'm experimenting with one super heavy set of 20 reps for all quad movements, I did this in the begining and had good results, I switched to the heavy set-widowmaker version but I don't think it worked as well for me.

I'm following it. I'm training legs tonite so I like to expierement a little. I'm gonna try a 'widow maker' set tonite. I think I know the concept. Also...I'm going to incorporate some really good stretching. I figure it can't hurt add 5-10 minutes of moderate stretching before the workout and another 5-10 of stretching in a more intense manner afterwards.

As of late...I been using the leg press BEFORE squats when I used to do the opposite. It causes me NOT to be able to go more than 405 but that's fine...I don't like going under 8-10 reps for squats any since I have an inguinal hernia and feel a throbbing 'thumping' pain when I try to go in the 495 range for 4-5. reps.

One more thing, natural-al...or Ron. With barbell squats...regular squats or front squats? High rep(10-20) or low but super heavy(4-6reps)? Which do you prefer as DC trainers?

I can't do barbell squats, my low back is trashed. I don't want to go see a doctor cause I'm thinking surgery is gonna happen. I like to do my squats using a smith machine, back straight, legs out in front of the body and knee's close together, once I start rounding my back I'm done. I've also used the hammer v-squat, which is basically a verticle hack squat.

if you can squat, I'd do them first, heavy for 6-10 reps, then if you still feel comfortable do your 20 rep widowmakeer using the BB squat also, if you can handle it start with 315 for 20 and go from there. I used the legpress for my WM set just to save my back. Since you're just getting your feet wet go with some light stretching but I'd look into the DC stretching after you get comfortable with what your doing.

what's your point? What does it matter to you? Let's see I could be a 'tough" guy and squat and walk around in pain for days on end or I could avoid them and do other things. What's so hard to understand...oh, yeah you're only 14 years old so it might be hard for you to grasp the concept.

ok, sarca......oh, yeah that name got the old boot didn't it? Ok, squadfather

again, what's your point? Should I have lied and said I was 5'10" and 230? I was honest about my size, I'm actually about 208 right now. I've got nothing to hide and nothing to lie about, if I hadn't had such a shitty run for the last 2 years maybe I'd be bigger but it did happen and that's what I weigh right now, I never said I was a beast. Really you're reaching with these posts.....they just don't have the same effect they used to, you need some new material.

u guys are a bunch of keyboard thugs who probably look like shyt and are all talk. i don't see nothing wrong with his smith press form. a lot of people cannot go lower becuz it hurts their shoulders.

everybody is a critic on this site, you can post any vid of anybody working out and 100 people are gonna come out and rip him for something, that's just the way it is. Like I said before it's "bodybuilding" not "strict form at all costs and even if you use strict form you have to lift ultraheavy or your a pussy"

Here's a clip of Jason Wojo, weighing 245, doing very full range of motion on the Hammer Strength behind neck shoulder press machine with three 45's on each side. My own set with this weight definitely didn't go down as low on the reps.

Here's a clip of Jason Wojo, weighing 245, doing very full range of motion on the Hammer Strength behind neck shoulder press machine with three 45's on each side. My own set with this weight definitely didn't go down as low on the reps.

Yeah, he is a beast, but he could do 6 plates a side with strict form on the Smith machine and someone would post "hahahahahah i bet he can't handle 135 on the real barbell bench press with good form hahahahaha"

And if he did do 405 flat bench for good reps, you would hear "hahahahah all drugs hahahahahahaha."or perhaps"hahahahahah fake plates hahahahaha"

No way to win. No matter how great an accomplishment, some jealous person will always look for a way to tear it down."

Yeah, he is a beast, but he could do 6 plates a side with strict form on the Smith machine and someone would post "hahahahahah i bet he can't handle 135 on the real barbell bench press with good form hahahahaha"

And if he did do 405 flat bench for good reps, you would hear "hahahahah all drugs hahahahahahaha."or perhaps"hahahahahah fake plates hahahahaha"

No way to win. No matter how great an accomplishment, some jealous person will always look for a way to tear it down."

Correct, Al. That's why Dante doesn't feel comfortable with me posting my workouts. They were specifically created for me with my needs and background in mind. For a beginner to copy what I do now would not be good. I also train 4 days a week instead of 3 as he has most people do.

hey bud i think you are looking good , keep up the ood work , and as long as you getting bigger and better who cares