wmpdrummer13 wrote:Well how can a "laymen observer" make a claim that something is overrated when they cannot produce something better? Might be overrated compared to someone else who might be better and at that point and time that person who is better can state that. We have too many critics in this world that cant do shit themselves, and i hate to see that bullcrap flow into the drumming community, we dont need that!

Uh, by observing. One need not produce in order to form an opinion. Your assertion that only "someone else who might be better and at that point and time that person who is better can state that" someone is over-rated is bullcrap

what's "better" mean in this context, tho? it's all subjective. that's why I feel terms like "overrated" are inane. everybody has different taste. music isn't a competitive sport.

HOWEVER, I also feel that whole argument of "well, you don't have any right to comment because so-and-so is more successful than you" is weak. Who freaking cares? I have every right to any opinion I might have, and so does anyone else.

Right and my opinion is that if someone is going to say someone is overrated or is going to question their abilities, not talking success here, then they should be able to do better as far as being able to do what he can do and most importantly, especially with music, be able to create something better.

Alan_ wrote:what's "better" mean in this context, tho? it's all subjective. that's why I feel terms like "overrated" are inane. everybody has different taste. music isn't a competitive sport.

HOWEVER, I also feel that whole argument of "well, you don't have any right to comment because so-and-so is more successful than you" is weak. Who freaking cares? I have every right to any opinion I might have, and so does anyone else.

That's where I'm coming from. I hate how the word "over-rated" is simply used to describe players someone doesn't like- it's the equivalent of dismissing someone's political points by calling them a neo-con/socialist. The words still have application, but because they've been used so loosely and interchangeably that the definition is blurryThis is still far better than the alternative of only a select few having the privilege to voice an opinion or criticism

Alan_ wrote:what's "better"? how can you quantitatively analyze artistic endeavor? are you trying to make music, or win the 100 yard dash?

So I guess there has never been drumming competitions, battle of bands, and painting competitions? Where people are deemed better than someone else in an artistic endeavor. There is always going to be people better than someone else in any profession. Just like a runner in a 100 yard dash a drummer has certain abilities that make them better than others, i.e. properly keeping time and accuracy. So to ask that question is a little bit ignorant.

Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinions but if you are going to call someone out id say ya better be on the same playing field as that person. And no im not making drumming into a competative event im not the one stating someone is overrated or trying to rank people in the first place.

who's to say whether someone is on the same level as another player? even the last paragraph suggests that there's some sort of objective measure of the quality of a musician. I can comment on technical fluency, but anything beyond that is COMPLETELY subjective.

Well that is easy go listen to a garage band or a local band at that and tell me if that drummer is on the same level as Neil Peart or Danny Carey or any other great name that people talk about. To me if you are getting paid to be a drummer and that is your profession you are on a different level than someone else who is not. There is a reason these guys became what you called celebrities because they are on a different level. To call any of them overrated is immature and down right stupid.

wmpdrummer13 wrote: There is a reason these guys became what you called celebrities because they are on a different level.

that right there is EXACTLY what I'm disagreeing with. I've seen tons of drummers that are unknown who caught my ear to a much greater degree than many "star" drummers. Success in the music industry can have very little to do with ability. One does not equal the other, although they coincide from time to time.

wmpdrummer13 wrote: To call any of them overrated is immature and down right stupid.

This part I totally agree with. I think the need to call someone "overrated" displays a lack of confidence in one's own ability and artistic vision.

I'm not saying it equals bad. It's terminology that implies there's some sort of objective scale involved in greatness. It also implies that someone's tastes can be "wrong" if they don't happen to agree.