So ive done alot of studying on the subject of karma. I understand that there is a law of equillibrium/balance/justice which pervades the universe....it is natural law.

So karma is not the tit for tat thing that many suppose it is. I get that. But i wonder if the universe brings us experiences of pain if we have inflicted that pain on others. If we "vibrate" at a certain pitch, and do certain actions which would hurt another person, could it be that we someday experience similar circumstances? Maybe this is how we learn not to harm others?

Id like to hear some perspectives

Last edited by Nineborn on Tue May 15, 2018 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

For example, i was wildly unfaithful to my last girlfriend. I hid alot of infidelity from her...and i was not particularly nice to her much of the time. She was a very self sacrificing, meek, pushover type of girl, and i generally abused my power and treated her poorly. In hindsight its so interesting that i turned into such a person. It was definitely a phase. And since she broke up with me, i have gotten into another relationship which has been so tumultuous, and been treated pretty badly...with many parallels to my treatment towards my ex.

I often wonder if by becoming this selfish, cruel creature for a long period of time, i ultimately attracted someone of a similar nature. Thus...learning first hand how awful i made someone else feel.

You can believe all that "vibration" stuff if you like. At this point, it's just the idea of a different word and concept. On the other hand, you can examine how you impacted your perceptions, your accuracy in evaluating other people, and your willingness and coping strengths for creating reality by wrapping it in so many lies and weakening your will - and it is that: the simple mechanism that you don't know what reality actually is any more, and your behavior is toward this unhealthy reality, and your behavior creates the results that you are seeing.

This is up to you to discern.

"If we are to have Beauty and Love, whether in begetting children or works of art, or what not, we must have perfect freedom to act, without fear or shame or any falsity."

Takamba wrote:You can believe all that "vibration" stuff if you like. At this point, it's just the idea of a different word and concept. On the other hand, you can examine how you impacted your perceptions, your accuracy in evaluating other people, and your willingness and coping strengths for creating reality by wrapping it in so many lies and weakening your will - and it is that: the simple mechanism that you don't know what reality actually is any more, and your behavior is toward this unhealthy reality, and your behavior creates the results that you are seeing.

This is up to you to discern.

Ok so basically, if i believe it, it is true. I mean i know that we create our reality mentally, i just wonder if the laws of life are such that they bring us exactly what we are. If we are a way which harms others emotionally/physically, that is a violation of the one spirit, since we are all particularizations of the one spirit.

Therefore, we are now at the effect of an identical experience we caused for another person. This causes us to connect the dots. We may have intellectually known we were being bad and rationalized it, but now we firsthand experience the very thing we did to someone else and have a visceral identification with the effects of our behavior towards someone else. Then, spiritual growth.

I guess im arguing for a built in checks and balances in natural law...which inevitably steers people in the direction of knowledge of unity. Make sense?

It makes sense that that is what you are arguing, that nature has a built in checks and balances system. Making sense that that is what you are arguing doesn't mean the argument makes sense. Also, it doesn't make sense to me that you took away from what I wrote "so if you believe in it, it will happen." Actually, I wrote not that belief makes it happen, but you can believe in whatever words you wish to describe what does happen.

What happens is you change you when you do things. When you lie, you become a liar. When you steal, you become a thief. When you cheat, you become a thief and a liar. As such, you start to behave the way thieves and liars behave (by telling more lies and covering tracks). This will bring on the behavior of the world around you. That is your karma, how the world treats liars and thieves.

Now as a liar and thief, you've practiced deception and other tricks. These are your mastery. What you haven't practiced is honesty and integrity, these are not your masteries. They, in fact, become mysteries. So you get duped once you think you know how to enter the honest world, but your lying and theiving world is still stuck to your clothes, so it isn't going to be so neat and clean to do. That's your karma.

You can work these out in time by improving your skills in the honest world, learning to recognize truth from lie before it's too late, learning how to cope with emotions that normally you'd resort to lying and stealing to "cope" with, learning to do things anew. This is your karma.

not some magical quid pro qro personality quirk of the Universe, just simple cause and effect (but on a human scale)

not beliefs

but feel free to believe what you will. I can't help you there. Only you can.

"If we are to have Beauty and Love, whether in begetting children or works of art, or what not, we must have perfect freedom to act, without fear or shame or any falsity."

Takamba wrote:It makes sense that that is what you are arguing, that nature has a built in checks and balances system. Making sense that that is what you are arguing doesn't mean the argument makes sense. Also, it doesn't make sense to me that you took away from what I wrote "so if you believe in it, it will happen." Actually, I wrote not that belief makes it happen, but you can believe in whatever words you wish to describe what does happen.

What happens is you change you when you do things. When you lie, you become a liar. When you steal, you become a thief. When you cheat, you become a thief and a liar. As such, you start to behave the way thieves and liars behave (by telling more lies and covering tracks). This will bring on the behavior of the world around you. That is your karma, how the world treats liars and thieves.

Now as a liar and thief, you've practiced deception and other tricks. These are your mastery. What you haven't practiced is honesty and integrity, these are not your masteries. They, in fact, become mysteries. So you get duped once you think you know how to enter the honest world, but your lying and theiving world is still stuck to your clothes, so it isn't going to be so neat and clean to do. That's your karma.

You can work these out in time by improving your skills in the honest world, learning to recognize truth from lie before it's too late, learning how to cope with emotions that normally you'd resort to lying and stealing to "cope" with, learning to do things anew. This is your karma.

not some magical quid pro qro personality quirk of the Universe, just simple cause and effect (but on a human scale)

not beliefs

but feel free to believe what you will. I can't help you there. Only you can.

So you're saying that by trying to enter into a more honest way of living will have backlash, and this is my karma?

Nineborn wrote:So you're saying that by trying to enter into a more honest way of living will have backlash, and this is my karma?

In a manner of speaking, but not so rough around the edges, yes. This is also dependent upon a learning curve. Your ability to accept karma, adjust to karma, and adjust future karma is on you. Karma is not some score sheet, it's simply the way of the Universe. All things endure karma, some just don't have an apparatus to argue with it.

What I am also saying is that psychologically and socially you've miffed your own development, and now you must learn what you've been lacking in. That's your karma.

*edit

I'm not saying karma brought you the girl, I'm saying karma hasn't taught you to avoid the kind of girl she is (if that's your intention here).

"If we are to have Beauty and Love, whether in begetting children or works of art, or what not, we must have perfect freedom to act, without fear or shame or any falsity."

Nineborn wrote:So you're saying that by trying to enter into a more honest way of living will have backlash, and this is my karma?

In a manner of speaking, but not so rough around the edges, yes. This is also dependent upon a learning curve. Your ability to accept karma, adjust to karma, and adjust future karma is on you. Karma is not some score sheet, it's simply the way of the Universe. All things endure karma, some just don't have an apparatus to argue with it.

What I am also saying is that psychologically and socially you've miffed your own development, and now you must learn what you've been lacking in. That's your karma.

*edit

I'm not saying karma brought you the girl, I'm saying karma hasn't taught you to avoid the kind of girl she is (if that's your intention here).

Do you think this could take the form of not knowing what the truth is regarding another person's motives, because you've done the same to someone? Like as you withhold, or dissimulate, or lie, you lose the ability to detect honesty in another person in a relationship?

Nineborn wrote:So you're saying that by trying to enter into a more honest way of living will have backlash, and this is my karma?

In a manner of speaking, but not so rough around the edges, yes. This is also dependent upon a learning curve. Your ability to accept karma, adjust to karma, and adjust future karma is on you. Karma is not some score sheet, it's simply the way of the Universe. All things endure karma, some just don't have an apparatus to argue with it.

What I am also saying is that psychologically and socially you've miffed your own development, and now you must learn what you've been lacking in. That's your karma.

*edit

I'm not saying karma brought you the girl, I'm saying karma hasn't taught you to avoid the kind of girl she is (if that's your intention here).

Do you think this could take the form of not knowing what the truth is regarding another person's motives, because you've done the same to someone? Like as you withhold, or dissimulate, or lie, you lose the ability to detect honesty in another person in a relationship?

Yes, that's (among other things) exactly what I'm saying. Or rather, to be more scientific about it and demonstrate results rather than lack of results, by evoking nothing but truth in your speech, you will find lie detection almost second nature.

"If we are to have Beauty and Love, whether in begetting children or works of art, or what not, we must have perfect freedom to act, without fear or shame or any falsity."

How should i deal with resentment? Invasive thoughts about past betrayals ? Basically dealing with the past. I realize we create our reality going forward, but i keep looking for some spiritual guidance to dealing with these things that are past related. I guess Im trying to find some principle that helps me realize everything is my own doing. That would make me less hurt and angry if i could internalize the fact that i somehow create all experiences myself. Because i still get floods of negative feelings when i think of certain betrayals by the person in with right now and its been a huge obstacle in my progress...in anything.

Nineborn wrote:How should i deal with resentment? Invasive thoughts about past betrayals ? Basically dealing with the past. I realize we create our reality going forward, but i keep looking for some spiritual guidance to dealing with these things that are past related. I guess Im trying to find some principle that helps me realize everything is my own doing. That would make me less hurt and angry if i could internalize the fact that i somehow create all experiences myself. Because i still get floods of negative feelings when i think of certain betrayals by the person in with right now and its been a huge obstacle in my progress...in anything.

Have you studied the chakras?

Promiscuity and jealousy and controlling behaviors are all issues of the first three chakras. If you have an overactive/under-active/blockage in those chakras, then yes, you will manifest those issues. Cheating and continually being cheated are similar energies (just from the opposite side of the experience it), so it's not surprising that you encounter it.

It's not karma per se, it's more a birds of a feather principle.

Study your chakras, work on imbalances, do MPR, whatever they tell you you need to to raise your vibration and shake off the stuff that's weighing you down (false beliefs, denial, guilt).

Nineborn wrote:How should i deal with resentment? Invasive thoughts about past betrayals ? Basically dealing with the past. I realize we create our reality going forward, but i keep looking for some spiritual guidance to dealing with these things that are past related. I guess Im trying to find some principle that helps me realize everything is my own doing. That would make me less hurt and angry if i could internalize the fact that i somehow create all experiences myself. Because i still get floods of negative feelings when i think of certain betrayals by the person in with right now and its been a huge obstacle in my progress...in anything.

Active imagination techniques. Go back to your resentful pasts. Own the resent (a first and a must). Acknowledge that you created the resent. Go to your memories of these events or betrayals etc etc etc (waiter, more wine please) and rewrite the scripts of memory you have.

Rewrite them "more accurately" if you will.

You can't change history, but you can rewrite it. You can recreate it. And in some cases, falsely is also acceptable. Become a winner some how, and winners, by the way, own their flaws and reactions even when they note them as wrong because that's the only way to correct mistakes.

Go back in time. Rethink these events. Find all your responsibilities. You feel betrayed by a lover? Lied to? How many ways did you mistreat that love? How did it get there to be so cheap to the other person? What was your role and find the example of it in your history and try from that moment to rewrite some things.

What would you have done differently with this new perspective if you had it then? How could you acknowledge your role, would that have changed things? Did it really hurt me that much or did I over extend that as a device? Ask honest questions and behave as honestly as you know how in your realigning your view of events.

Or, smoke some grass and stare at your navel. Yeah.

"If we are to have Beauty and Love, whether in begetting children or works of art, or what not, we must have perfect freedom to act, without fear or shame or any falsity."

Nineborn wrote:How should i deal with resentment? Invasive thoughts about past betrayals ? Basically dealing with the past.

When I have moments like this,moments when something in my day reminds me of something past

I slap myself on the ass really hard and tell myself to wake the hell up and stop with the pity party and to put on my big girl panties and go kick some ass right now.

Dude, I have a million and one reasons to wallow in shitty thoughts about things in the past.

but that just a big ol waste of time.

recognize that all that stuff you went through got you to where you are right now.you would not be the person you are if you hadnt gone through themthey didnt kill youyou are in a good place so be grateful for all that you do have look forward, not past.

Nineborn wrote:How should i deal with resentment? Invasive thoughts about past betrayals ? Basically dealing with the past.

When I have moments like this,moments when something in my day reminds me of something past

I slap myself on the ass really hard and tell myself to wake the hell up and stop with the pity party and to put on my big girl panties and go kick some ass right now.

Dude, I have a million and one reasons to wallow in shitty thoughts about things in the past.

but that just a big ol waste of time.

recognize that all that stuff you went through got you to where you are right now.you would not be the person you are if you hadnt gone through themthey didnt kill youyou are in a good place so be grateful for all that you do have look forward, not past.

Yeah i hear what youre saying. Its really a matter of taking control of my own thoughts i suppose. Its my choice to linger on those thoughts if theyre triggered. Doesnt make it easy per se, but i guess theres no real escape from the responsibility of directing our thought currents.