WASHINGTON -- Rudy Giuliani and John McCain are the top-polling Republican rivals for the White House in 2008, but the two dinner buddies avoid talking about that topic when sharing tortellini and bresaola at Giuliani's favorite Manhattan bistros.

Their latest get-together took place on Nov. 1 at Elio's, an Upper East Side eatery known for its $30 veal chops. They shared a table with McCain confidante Mark Salter, Giuliani's wife Judith and his aide-de-camp Tony Carbonetti. McCain and Giuliani reportedly chatted about the food, sports and Iraq -- everything but 2008.

The same can't be said for the Arizona senator's operatives, who are girding for a clash between the two titans even though Giuliani could be a year away from making a decision. Some even predict the Straight Talk Express will roll over America's Mayor if it comes down to McCain vs. Giuliani.

"I think Rudy would make an attractive secretary of state or secretary of defense in a McCain administration," Marshall Wittmann, a former McCain aide who is still close to the senator.

"In my humble opinion, Rudy wouldn't get out of the gate," said longtime McCain strategist John Dennehy, who helped engineer the Arizona senator's victorious 2000 primary in New Hampshire.

If 15% of the GOP won't vote for a pro abort candidate, that's about 5% of the voters. Can a guy with Rudy's stature make up that slack among the general population.

Yes, of course he could.

If Rudy gets the nomination and wins the general election, the pro life movement's leadership and rank and file need to seriously rethink things. Checking out of the political process advances no legitimate, meaningful goal.

The sad fact is, and I have mentioned this on FR many times, is that the pro life movement is a mess with very little to show for its work since 1973. They have lost ground and have been beaten back so far that they can't even get the california proposition for parental notification for minors seeking abortions passed.

As I have said many times on FR, the pro life leadership is stuck on stupid: they insist on fighting the 1973 abortion battle that they lost. They have been refighting that battle and losing ever since, unable to cope with the fact that most Americans are against abortion, but could imagine a circumstance where even they might advocate one.

The USA has no pro life majority. It's a mildly pro choice consensus. Sad but true. Lets get to work within that framework.

I'm aware of the negative side of McCain and I'm still upset over how the media focused on him when he was criticizing Bush. I just think that we also have to look at the conservative issues that he has compared to other candidates. He's a free-trader too...voted against the tariffs and in favor of all the trade deals. Also, assuming the war continues, they certainly won't be able to call McCain a "chickenhawk".

I admire Giuliani, but I don't trust him to uphold gun rights and choose conservative judges.

63
posted on 12/10/2005 10:32:42 PM PST
by Susannah
(If you're from California, aren't you glad your state did NOT help Carter to the White House?)

>>>>I'm aware of the negative side of McCain and I'm still upset over how the media focused on him when he was criticizing Bush. I just think that we also have to look at the conservative issues that he has compared to other candidates.

Negative side? Conservative issues? We are talking death of our MIL personnel. How do you call that negative and look for a conservative view in DEATH????

McCain has been saying a lot of the right things lately--everywhere, from sea to shining sea, in front of every camera that he can find.....but, he cannot be trusted, and trust is the most important thing in a Presidential candidate.

McCain is blind ambition, supporting the pet causes of the media.

His campaign finance "reform" bill trashed the first amendment and reformed nothing as campaigns easily circumvented its stupid provisions.

This legislation was so bad that no person who respected the liberties of the American people could have supported it, much less proposed it.

McCain's current pro-Iraq speechmaking is imho a calculated appeal to the Republican base.

He can't earn my trust--he has lost it for this lifetime.

67
posted on 12/10/2005 10:41:33 PM PST
by cgbg
(MSM and Democratic treason--fifty years and counting...)

"In a bid to pick up President George W. Bush supporters, McCain's backers have been casting him as the president's conservative heir-apparent in key primary states like Michigan, New Hampshire and South Carolina, where the senator suffered his most bitter primary defeat."

Something tells me both these men will have alot of trouble down here in South Carolina, God willing.

I would never vote for McCain. I used to think "anything but Hillary", but at this point, I wouldn't care either way if it was Hillary v McCrazy.

OTOH, I will knock on doors to get people to vote for Rudy. I worked in NYC before he was Mayor, and after. THE MAN CAN LEAD. I don't agree with all his positions, but I completely trust him to kick the tar out of terrorists, which is the A-1 priority.

McCrazy is far too unstable to be President. And he does not inspire any confidence that he will vigorously prosecute the war. He says one thing, then undermines the troops and our efforts. Plus, he hates the first amendment.

Article text: Last month, a nationwide Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll showed Giuliani beating McCain, 34 percent to 31 percent, in the GOP primary. And 20 percent of Republicans polled said they wouldn't vote for the senator under any circumstances, with only 8 percent of voters expressing similar distaste for Giuliani.

Wow. That is what you call one uphill battle for Rudy (not to be taken as an endorsement by me).

Meanwhile, reliable sources tell me that more than 90% of the pajama people reported that they would not vote for McCain under any circumstances. Not today, nor tomorrow, not ever.

That seems strange that he would support a Senator who is 100% pro-life and standing up for gun rights

McCain went from state to state after the school shooting at Columbine campaigning for passage of more gun control laws in those states. He also crafted the unconstitutional CFR law which has severely diminished the influence of pro-gun orgs like NRA and GOA on Capitol Hill.

I haven't heard him say anything regarding the abortion issue, but I don't trust him to stand strong for the sanctity of human life on religious or moral principle the way Bush has throughout his time in office.

As for Rudy, no way Jose. AFAIC Rudy is totally disqualified for any high office because of his position on both human life and 2nd Amendment issues.

78
posted on 12/10/2005 11:28:41 PM PST
by epow
("Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a reproach to any people" Prov. 14:34)

That's because few people, even Republicans, really know about Rudy's stance on important national issue. They only drank the media Kool Aid on Giuliani because of 9/11.

I think there is something about him. . . the charisma thing. Not unlike the Kennedys for lack of a better analogy. The standing that a senator like Ted Kennedy has with voters is far out of proportion to the respect that people have for the positions he takes on the issues. This is not to say that I equate Guiliani with Kennedy. I give Rudy a lot more credit than that.

Of course I'd much prefer George Allen as nominee and Rudy as his VP. But if it comes down to Guiliani or McCain, it's going to be the former for me. I'm not worried that Rudy has a screw loose.

These twin jerks will never get the Republican nomination. On the outside chance they do, it will assure a Democrat victory. Mainstream conservatives and moderates will vote for third party candidates or stay home.

Zogby sent out a poll yesterday that sounded like it was planning for a hillary /mccain battle. I hope mccain gets the message that in no way, would I EVER vote for him. My answer in all cases was "someone else."

94
posted on 12/11/2005 4:16:19 AM PST
by freeangel
( (free speech is only good until someone else doesn't like what you say))

"All I can say is..if that's what we have to choose from, this ol' boy is sitting this one out. Looks like Hitlery is a shoe in. Wake up GOP!"

Not voting is lazy and ignorant. You could always vote for the Constitution party if you're really a Conservative. If the Constitution party is too Conservative for you then write-in somebody you like.

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