I would make a comment, but there are some folks on this board who would take it as a personal attack, so I will refrain.
But it seems to me the American people were given 2 choices in the last Presidential election. A fast track to the Fourth Reich, or the slow track to the Fourth Reich. I thought I knew which was which, but now I am unsure.

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." ~ Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

The MOST powerful force is not the Military, nor is it Diplomacy, nor Politics or Propaganda. No, My Friends, the MOST powerful force is MONEY. If true change is to occur in China, if they are to become our ally, then it WILL start with their economy.
They have been granted this status each year since 1980. The only change here is that Bush made it permanent, so OUR politicians wil have to find something else to argue about.
This isn't the end of the world. As much as some of you want it to be.

If this was really a big deal and China could not trade with the US then how is it we have so many POS plastic made items from China? All he did was get rid of the renewal process. Its just business as usual.
[beer]

Originally Posted By Imbroglio:
China is our friend. They were only joking around when they had people spying for U.S. nuclear secrets. Dubyah is a good man for doing this. He is a hero to the workers.

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Indeed. Just think how many BigMac's we will be able to export to our friends!
This is NOT a play on HighlandMac's handle, but a reference to the fact that our manufacturing base is for all intents and purposes GONE.
All Hail Free Trade!!!

Originally Posted By 223-Buckaroo:
The MOST powerful force is not the Military, nor is it Diplomacy, nor Politics or Propaganda. No, My Friends, the MOST powerful force is MONEY. If true change is to occur in China, if they are to become our ally, then it WILL start with their economy.
They have been granted this status each year since 1980. The only change here is that Bush made it permanent, so OUR politicians wil have to find something else to argue about.
This isn't the end of the world. As much as some of you want it to be.

Originally Posted By 223-Buckaroo:
The MOST powerful force is not the Military, nor is it Diplomacy, nor Politics or Propaganda. No, My Friends, the MOST powerful force is MONEY. If true change is to occur in China, if they are to become our ally, then it WILL start with their economy.
They have been granted this status each year since 1980. The only change here is that Bush made it permanent, so OUR politicians wil have to find something else to argue about.
This isn't the end of the world. As much as some of you want it to be.

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What do you think our "friends" are going to buy from us?

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Doesn't matter what they buy. Just matters that they CAN buy from us, and we CAN buy from them. Besides, this is only a change in procedure. We already engage in trade with them, have since 1980. This just means that the politicians that are paid by OUR TAX DOLLARS won't spend time arguing about it every year.
And if this allows other countries to participate in free trade with them, that's fine too.
FREE TRADE ! FREE TRADE !

Originally Posted By 223-Buckaroo:
The MOST powerful force is not the Military, nor is it Diplomacy, nor Politics or Propaganda. No, My Friends, the MOST powerful force is MONEY. If true change is to occur in China, if they are to become our ally, then it WILL start with their economy.
They have been granted this status each year since 1980. The only change here is that Bush made it permanent, so OUR politicians wil have to find something else to argue about.
This isn't the end of the world. As much as some of you want it to be.

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What do you think our "friends" are going to buy from us?

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Doesn't matter what they buy. Just matters that they CAN buy from us, and we CAN buy from them. Besides, this is only a change in procedure. We already engage in trade with them, have since 1980. This just means that the politicians that are paid by OUR TAX DOLLARS won't spend time arguing about it every year.
And if this allows other countries to participate in free trade with them, that's fine too.
FREE TRADE ! FREE TRADE !

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Just one thing wrong with that, we buy from them and they steal from us. Lessee, what's the average wage in China? And what is their tariff rate set at? What is our trade imbalance at after 21 wonderful years of FREE TRADE?

Originally Posted By 223-Buckaroo:
The MOST powerful force is not the Military, nor is it Diplomacy, nor Politics or Propaganda. No, My Friends, the MOST powerful force is MONEY. If true change is to occur in China, if they are to become our ally, then it WILL start with their economy.
They have been granted this status each year since 1980. The only change here is that Bush made it permanent, so OUR politicians wil have to find something else to argue about.
This isn't the end of the world. As much as some of you want it to be.

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What do you think our "friends" are going to buy from us?

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Doesn't matter what they buy. Just matters that they CAN buy from us, and we CAN buy from them. Besides, this is only a change in procedure. We already engage in trade with them, have since 1980. This just means that the politicians that are paid by OUR TAX DOLLARS won't spend time arguing about it every year.
And if this allows other countries to participate in free trade with them, that's fine too.
FREE TRADE ! FREE TRADE !

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Just one thing wrong with that, we buy from them and they steal from us. Lessee, what's the average wage in China? And what is their tariff rate set at? What is our trade imbalance at after 21 wonderful years of FREE TRADE?

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Well, I agree, but those are concerns we have with every single country that we trade with. We can't let any country steal from us, and we should always work towards balanced trade. The point is that free trade and capitalism works. Works every time and place that it is tried. I'm just saying that this is a STEP in the right direction.

China buys airplanes, lots of airplanes. Do you know who is the largest exporter in the US? It's Boeing.
I happened to be lucky enough to see GW make a free trade speech about China in 2000 when he was campaining where I work. He made a good point that what we want to do is foster capitolism in China.
I'll agree with buckaroo. Money and Capitolism will bring about the most change in China through exposure to western ideas. Look at what happened to communism in Europe 10 years ago. The downfall of European communism was that there wasn't any money in it. I visited East Germany in 1987 when I was stationed in West Germany. You could tell the people wanted what we had; money and the means to make money and to bring a better life for their family. I feel that is what will bring about the fall of communism in China and the rest of the world too.
Bruce

I'm all for free trade on a level playing field.
How long can American workers compete against slave labor?
I'm glad Boeing is able to sell airplanes, but how much longer will they be made in this country?
Nike was the first American company to discover the wonderful world of slave labor.
How many others have followed suit?

Originally Posted By BenDover:
I agree that it is just doing away with the renewal but it WAS a lever we once had.

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I couldn't agree more. And they would respond with releasing dissidents, etc. Sensible considering the whopping trade surplus they have with us which is modernizing their country and providing the capital for their new military build-up.
Maybe I'm wrong and everything will be fine now...

Like I said before, GW aint no different than his ole man. His daddy has had connections with the chinese since way back.
Republican this, and democrat that!, same ole crap leakin out of DC and stinkin up the U.S.
Hell!, whos to say this taliban rout, isn't part of a deal that was made behind closed doors.
The chinese were probably getting tired of competing with the afghan heroin market.
The Bush family, I don't trust them sons-a-b*tches.
Waterdog

Makes sense. Here's why.
Bush, his oil buddies, and Bin Laden NEED to build a pipeline to get oil to China. Guess where the path for this oil pipeline needs to go through? You guessed it--Pakistan (among a few others).
So Bush, his oil buddies (enron et al), Bin Laden and Bush senior's covert ops buddies pay Bin Laden $43 million (to play bad guy), destroy the WTC, blame it on Bin Laden, get public approval to bomb Pakistan, place military troops in Pakistan to subdue the current regime (who oppose the oil pipeline), and then throw China some bones to grease the wheels (trade status).
The horror lies not in the fact that the truth will come to light, but that most of you folks will have to accept that the tin-foil hat corwd has been right all-along.
Our government is comprised of truly evil forces. That should not be a surprise when you see what they have done systematically to the Constitution and BOR. Many say that 9-11-01 changed their outlook on life forever. For myself and the folks who already knew who/what the guiding forces behind earthly governments is/are, it was not a shock. We know the depths of inhumanity that these "people" are capable. What depths I hear some of you ask? AIDS, Cancer, Ebola, Hanta Virus--all of these were developed by our "friends" in the US government and foisted on the people of this planet.
Long story short, buckle up, the ride is gonna get bumpy folks.
"When great changes occur in history, when great principles are involved, as a rule the majority are wrong. The minority are right." -- Eugene V. Debs (1855-1926)
Supreme Court decision: The U.S. Supreme Court broadly and unequivocally held that requiring licensing or registration of any constitutional right is itself unconstitutional. --Follett vs. Town of McCormick, S.C., 321 U.S. 573 [1944]

Originally Posted By 223-Buckaroo:
The MOST powerful force is not the Military, nor is it Diplomacy, nor Politics or Propaganda. No, My Friends, the MOST powerful force is MONEY. If true change is to occur in China, if they are to become our ally, then it WILL start with their economy.
They have been granted this status each year since 1980. The only change here is that Bush made it permanent, so OUR politicians wil have to find something else to argue about.
This isn't the end of the world. As much as some of you want it to be.

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right on! lets turn them into capitalist. [:D]
if those chinese soldiers are getting their Nike's from us, then they may not want to shoot at us later.
lib

China has us by the B#%@$ anyway ; We can not say or do anything against them short of going to war. SO why not give it all since we are screwed anyway .. They sells arms or support anybody that trades with them. It seems they are the "mafia" of the Govt's and we can not even sqweek..
Wait until become known as "thugs" publicly or the current Chiness system crumbles from our seeds of trade, you know as people over there get more money to spend and enjoy western stuff from it .. We might just corrupt the people with the fruits of our trade that they might kick the current system when they want also freedom next. Maybe this is done on purpose.. The only way to bring those seemly strong walls is to exploit from within.
They are not friends .. Chiness do not make friends .. It is pure business and they are taking advantage of something that will help them. They are the greatest copy cats and they use it to best of their advantage.

Originally Posted By ORIGINAL-Waterdog:
Like I said before, GW aint no different than his ole man. His daddy has had connections with the chinese since way back.
Republican this, and democrat that!, same ole crap leakin out of DC and stinkin up the U.S.
Hell!, whos to say this taliban rout, isn't part of a deal that was made behind closed doors.
The chinese were probably getting tired of competing with the afghan heroin market.
The Bush family, I don't trust them sons-a-b*tches.
Waterdog

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"Tonight we lead the world facing down a threat to decency and humanity. What is at stake is more than one small country. It is a big idea--A NEW WORLD ORDER! Today that NEW WORLD ORDER is struggling to be born--a world quite different from the one we have known.
George Bush
Jan 29 1991
State of the Union Message to Congress

George is just as bad as his father...and just as big a wimp. He's now giving up what he ran on so he could be a good non-political president...doesn't want to make the Dems unhappy, so wimp out on fighting for the country. Help out Repub's running for office? Sorry, too busy being everyone's president (what?, the Dems fought for their people? Well, he's above that sort of thing!
China's our good buddy, just ask em'. Now if we can just get people to think ahead...Bush wants to make treaties without Congress' review (except for yay or nay-no discussion allowed). The President doesn't make treaties, Congress does. What'll happen when the Dems get the presidency back...do you want Hillary (gag, choke) being able to make treaties on her own?

It makes sense if you think about it:
First, China belligerently downs one of our reconnaisence planes, then says it's our fault. We apologize and pay them for their trouble. [>:/]
Then 9/11 happens, and we swear to destroy any state that supports the responsible terrorists. We also ask China for help, because they are our friends [>:/]
Then the Chinese send al-Qaeda in Afghanistan SA-7 MANPAD missiles after 9/11.
Then we give China normalized trade relations....wait a minute... [>:/]

Originally Posted By raven:
Then the Chinese send al-Qaeda in Afghanistan SA-7 MANPAD missiles after 9/11.

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raven, I also think the PRC is the MAJOR terrorist nation that should be dealt with, but where did you get this information about surface-to-air missiles being delivered to al-Qaeda by the PRC?
Sounds hokey to me! Got more info n that claim?
DaMan

Originally Posted By raven:
Then the Chinese send al-Qaeda in Afghanistan SA-7 MANPAD missiles after 9/11.

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raven, I also think the PRC is the MAJOR terrorist nation that should be dealt with, but where did you get this information about surface-to-air missiles being delivered to al-Qaeda by the PRC?
Sounds hokey to me! Got more info n that claim?
DaMan

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DaMan, the surface-to-air missile delivery post 9/11 was on the news - cable news - one of the guest 'expert' types broke it.

Quemadmoeum gladuis neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.” (A sword is never a killer, it is a tool in the killer’s hands.)