3.) 06 Jan 2016 18:59:32
I really trust Klopp though, let's face it if he was holding there defence together and star man each week we wouldn't be able to afford him let alone Inter willing to let him go. Bergkamp sat on inters bench before the Arse bought him so who knows. If Klopp wants him ill back him :)

6.) 06 Jan 2016 22:43:54
He was captain when they were struggling in mid table in a poor Italian league. He is supposed to have good leadership skills, which we do need, but isn't the quality we should be aiming for. A loan to buy would be best if we had to go for him.

Fear of a Red Planet's banter posts with other poster's replies to Fear of a Red Planet's banter posts

29 Jun 2016 10:08:25
So, Mane is a done deal. It is what it is.

People talk about his pace (I've read his top speed is comparable to Moreno but his acceleration among the best in the EPL), but fewer talk about his power.

For a little guy, he's incredibly strong.

Seen plenty instances/ highlights where he knocks huge CBs off the ball with relative ease. Lower center of gravity, excellent balance, strength -- it all helps.

Beyond pace, that's also something we haven't had for a while -- some power/ strength up top. Benteke was supposed to offer some of that, but his impact has been minimal. Mane, because he actually fits the LFC attack/ pressing style, will be a different story.

Fear of a Red Planet

1.) 29 Jun 2016 13:23:52
Agreed, I particularly remember his goal against Chelsea the other month where he rolled the defender as it was played into feet, sending who I think was Terry sprawling to the ground and then he had to pace to get after the ball and the composure to put it past the keeper. It was a demonstration of his power, pace and technique all in the space of about 5 seconds.

He has everything required to be a top player. He just needs to show it week in week out.

18 Apr 2016 04:27:10
A lot of moronic fans (not necessarily on here but elsewhere) have gone back to slating Firmino.

The guy was not only our best player and attacker for a large run of games in 2016 before his injury, but one of the top attackers in the entire EPL.

Anyways, he's still recovering from a bad hamstring injury.

If people would just, for a moment, think back to Coutinho and how long it took him to recover from the same injury (hamstring) .

Coutinho was injured on November 21. He didn't return until Dec 10 as a sub vs Sion (so approx 20 days later),

And then Coutinho did not have either a goal or assist until TWO MONTHS LATER! He offered no production through December until Jan 5. And for a large bit of that stretch was quite bad.

Then he was confined to the bench again, as he may have re-injured his hamstring. Then he didn't return for another month. He finally scored again vs West Ham on Feb 9! He played through 8 games after returning from his initial injury before scoring again.

Firmino also returned a little less than 20 days after his hamstring injury (March 17th - April 7 as a sub vs Dortmund) .

But, by contrast, he scored today, only 10 days / three games back from his return.

In other words, just tell your Firmino-slating friends to keep this in mind. Hamstring injuries can be tough to recover from-- it took Coutinho nearly 2 months to re-find his form and score. Firmino, still looking rusty, has nevertheless helped us win today with a key goal. Period.

Fear of a Red Planet

1.) 18 Apr 2016 05:59:13
Well said mate, form is temporary but class is permanent. Lots seem to forget that here, and quickly slate any player that has a dip in form or a bad game.

Coutinho and Firmino will be the creative spark of our side for many years if we nurture them properly.

2.) 18 Apr 2016 06:13:49
Not only that but its his first season in the prem and majority of players moving to the prem get fatigued in the first season struggling with the pace and demands of the games.

Yes he's been sloppy with the ball at times but he's also shown that he has what it takes to succeed here. All in all not a bad opening season in the premier league.

6.) 18 Apr 2016 08:54:54
He is my lfc player of the season with origi coming a close second because of his improvement. When u consider this is his first season in the prem and brazilians historically taking time to adapt to new leagues/ countries he has done fantastically. I suspect Lucas has had a hand in that in terms of making him feel welcomed and being a good friend.

8.) 18 Apr 2016 11:24:23
Agree mate . Some people have never played the game by the sounds of it, it takes time to get to full match fitness and sharpness. Even just a couple of games on can take time. He is quality even if his touch wasn't as good as normal he got into the box for the goal.

10.) 18 Apr 2016 13:26:20
Clarky you missed off Henderson, Lucas, Milner, Allen, benteke, mignonet, can, Moreno. Clyne, skrtl, Lallana, Ibe and origi . All have been slated on here and demanded to be sold in the last couple of months ( despite some of them playing well) lol.

People have lately been raving about Coutinho-- and he has, indeed, produced some magic for us lately no doubt-- but I think we saw today how important Firmino is to our attack overall-- he brings both a structure, fluidity, and a creativity to our attacking game, either as a 10 or a false 9 who drops deep.

Firmino also tends to drop deeper than Coutinho (or others occupying the no 10), to help with build-up, often using his excellent vision to start counters with great outlet passes.

Today, we really looked out of ideas in the final third, by the 2nd half.

This was exacerbated once Sturridge came off and it was Origi/ Benteke leading the line.

Benteke was his usual self-- disrupting the rhythm and flow of our attack and missing clear chances. And Origi, I love him, and he works hard out there, but he's not a very creative attacker, either. He's pacy and direct, but certainly not a leader in this sense. More of a complimentary attacker to others who coordinate/ create.

In other words, wee need Firmino back, ASAP.

Fear of a Red Planet

1.) 21 Mar 2016 04:04:54
I'm sorry if any of u guys already shared this on previous posts, but again, did any of u guys or eds know why lovren is being subbed?

Not blaming Skrtel entirely for the loss, but things seem started to get messy all over after the 2nd half started. I thought Lovren and Sakho was doing ok in the first half.

{Ed001's Note - Lovren was struggling, but that was more because of the huge hole in midfield than anything else, I could see the thinking though. The crowd and Southampton team were screaming for everything regarding him and it was almost certain he would have ended up getting sent off. The problem was that Skrtel is never the answer, for one, secondly that we never plugged that huge gap in midfield.

Without Firmino pressing back into midfield, there was a big gap there, which Allen kept losing discipline and charging forward to try and fill, leaving Can alone. Can is indisciplined too, so we were often left with no one there, so they were getting at our defence. If Hendo, Lucas or Stewart had played, they would have stayed deeper and protected it better.}

2.) 21 Mar 2016 04:20:10
Thanks Ed01. Another thing I noticed was, there were a few occasions where I saw Sakho covering the right hand side, and I thought he was more of a left cb, without seeing much of Skrtel on the right during that occasions.

Im no expert in analyzing games, or a master tactician, but do u think it's normal for it to be like that? Or maybe it was a clear evidence of Skrtel not covering his area?

Yes I don't like Skrtel. But again, I think the loss was not entirely because of him, if not some part of it.

{Ed001's Note - that was a major issue, that Sakho was covering a huge hole left by the combination of an absent midfield and Skrtel being caught out.}

3.) 21 Mar 2016 04:35:47
Thanks. When u said something about pressing back, I noticed Sturridge dropped deep for lots of time. Was he actually being assigned the similar role of Firmino, as u mentioned above?

5.) 21 Mar 2016 05:48:06
Skrtel was part of the problem. But even with Skrtel playing, i thought if we had probably taken out may Sturridge after the penalty mignolet saved, and replaced with a midfield we probably wouldn't have conceded 3. we needed that extra man to gain more control in the midfield especially as we were already 2 nil up. It was more than just Skrtel that costed us the game.

Klopp and co learn would have plenty to learn from this game as we didn't counter the turnaround from Southampton in the second half, they were evidently threatening but we didn't change anything.

7.) 21 Mar 2016 06:34:27
Not sure Y people are quickly forgetting Lovren who was terrible in the first half left no choice for Klopp for a sub. What about the penalty incident in the 3rd min? Skrtel might be poor but that doesn't take anything away from away from the fact how poor Lovren is against pacy players?

9.) 21 Mar 2016 06:49:08
personally i think all 3 of sakho, lovren and skrtel historically struggle with pace. it was just the right side being where skrtel and lovren played yesterday were exploited more often by southampton.

and as ron said it was more than just either lovren and skrtel in that game.

29 Jan 2016 01:58:42
I understand that the club need to be frugal and can't just pay hand-over-foot for players like Teixeira.

I've seen a lot of media reports and pundits claiming Teixeira is a "gamble". I think this is baloney. Costa, Willian, Mkhitaryan, and Konoplyanka are all huge talents who came from Donetsk. Moreover, Teixeira has proven far more prolific and productive as an attacking midfielder than *any* of these players, including in Champions League. All evidence suggests he's not a gamble, but a proven talent on a team that has a track record for developing world class talent. Teixeira is many things, maybe "overpriced" at 38, but he's not a gamble.

In the end, if the difference is merely £5-8m (30m bid from Liverpool vs 35m or 38m asking price at Donetsk) or even greater (24m vs 38m), I still don't understand why we're not selling Benteke to help fund the signing?

Honestly, don't see the point of a £32m impact sub who does not fit the attack or style of Klopp at all.

Sell Benteke before his value drops even further, and use the funds to cover Teixeira.

Bring in a player with explosive pace, power, piles of goals (including in CL), with world class potential-- everything we could use more of in our attack-- who has also literally came out and begged to come to the club.

And sell a player who does not fit, will not fit, and will never fit, and who is a third or fourth choice of striker when everyone is healthy, and often looks too lazy actually try.

I know it's never this simple, but felt it had to be said.

Fear of a Red Planet

{Ed002's Note - Benteke is not for sale and nobody is showing interest in him. The Liverpool fans a crave a marquee signing and then moan about it.}

{Ed002's Note - No it is simply the modern day Liverpool fans destroying a club through not being supportive and spewing hate over everyone associated with that club.}

4.) 29 Jan 2016 02:24:00
Disagree. We've moved on players in the past who do not fit style and attack, especially if they'll likely excel elsewhere. It probably hurts Benteke as well retaining him as a sub, when he could lead the line elsewhere. Talented player, doesn't fit. The Benteke signing was a mistake. No shame in admitting that. Certainly Klopp feels no loyalties given his player choices.

I recognize there's hate out there in the fanbase, no doubt, but you're mistaken if you think that's what is animating my thinking.

{Ed002's Note - You are simp-ly another Liverpool "fan" who is unable to support the club nor the players at the club. It is imploding. Klopp has fixed nothing and the so called fans are trying to protect the so called "world class" manager by blaming the players - it is truly hopeless and indicative or either not understanding the game or simple stupidity. You choose.}

Klopp has taken a Rodgers team that could not compete with top EPL teams, and now, we're regularly beating and out-playing them this year with the same squad. There is plenty work to do, plenty of unfortunate injuries, but he has my full confidence.

Most fans were not supportive of the Benteke move. The rationale still escapes me as it escapes many; seems to also escape Rodgers himself who has yet to justify it.

6.) 29 Jan 2016 02:52:50
klopp is human after all. like any new employee, he needs time to feel the power bases at a new organisation before he ruffle any feathers and get booted out like say Benitez at RM. Like any employee, his bread and butter comes first. Once he feel the power bases and gain support and alliances, he will be able to kick over the sacred cows. surely u dun neeed me to teach u office politics.

7.) 29 Jan 2016 03:01:23
Imploding is quite an emotive word and given the evidence of the season so far -

Qualification for the final of a domestic cup competition, Qualification to the knock-out stages of a European cup competition, Still within striking distance of the top fou in the league,
Still in another of the domestic cup competition (at least until 7ish on Saturday night)

may be a slight exaggeration.

With respect to the player under discussion in this instance - the original reasoning behind signing him has been largely removed with the introduction of a new coach who seems to wish to introduce a different style of play. The player has had (and will have more) opportunities to rove that he has the skills to adapt to the new system. If he hasn't then it is better for both the player and the club if he moves on to try and further his career elsewhere. This opinion isn't based in hatred - it is based in a desire to see what is best for the club and the player.

8.) 29 Jan 2016 03:42:41
I can see why some people are disappointed with benteke as I am too for his effort sometimes on the picth but I for one don't think he has no ability and can't be a good player for us, I don't think he is just someone that should be stuck in the box looking for a header at every attack like all the pundits say he should do, the mans got feet and hasn't got a bad touch on him and can dribble past players sometimes with ease with skill he can join in attacks. Its stupid that people aren't even giving him a chance at all he still our highest scorer and isn't half as bad as Ballotelli just give the man a chance i don't think Klopp wants him gone otherwise he wouldn't have looked at him when he was dortmond although he is leaving him out I just think he's experimenting with different playing styles till he finds the right one for next season. Sorry rant over.

9.) 29 Jan 2016 04:19:17
Benteke has been getting chances and not looked particular impressive. I'll agree he does in fact have two feet, but dribbling past players with ease is a pretty massive stretch.

He's likely to still be here for another year minimum I'd guess, hopefully he picks it up a few notches.

10.) 29 Jan 2016 06:16:22
Ed, perhaps the English weather has put you in a really bad mood, but your exaggeration really excessive. Despite your accusations, Fear of a Red Planet is not the hateful, unsupportive fan you make him out to be. I'm sure he wants to see Benteke do well, but using rational thought, he doesn't think that will come to fruition, so I don't see how you take umbrage with his suggestions to sell him. The poster doesn't need to have his integrity and his character unfairly questioned like that.

As for Benteke being a marquee signing, well maybe in your world he is, but in the better universe that Liverpool fans live in, he is not. He's merely just a good player that Liverpool overpaid for. Fans cry out for players of marquee quality. They don't cry out for being ripped off over merely good players. There's a difference, and you've literally just made up a false narrative about Liverpool fans to support your agenda.

It is possible to be supportive and critical of a player at the same time.

14.) 29 Jan 2016 02:48:53
Ed002: One last thing -- I appreciate your perspective on this (and you sharing your deep knowledge of football dealings on here), especially as you're tasked with having to constantly deal with people spewing anger or hate on here (or elsewhere) .

And I agree, Klopp has made mistakes and isn't above criticism.

I've just long had a different take on the Benteke acquisition. That's all. That Facebook hat campaign, however, is not a bad suggestion: "Make LFC Great Again".

15.) 29 Jan 2016 05:04:22
Ed, just asking out of curiosity (hope it won't kill this cat) since you frequent many of the different teams that are represented on this site which fans slate their own players/ team the most? Surely it can't be only Liverpool fans?

{Ed002's Note - The Liverpool fans are by far and away the worst - and I appreciate there are more. The Manchester United page has been ruined by their new breed of toxic fans (and regulars here) that are trolling pretty much every post to make it about the manager. The Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs fans are general very good but have one or two idiots. The West Ham fans are very good but have no interest in what is actually happening in terms of transfers. The Manchester City fan is a very nice chap called Bernard.}

16.) 29 Jan 2016 08:54:11
No nick,

Again I'm wasting my breath here but I'll try. A large proportion of the fans on here are fickle and extremely disrespectful to our players, staff and even the owners in some cases.

I can honestly say I've never met an lfc fan in person who speaks about our club and players in the way they are on a daily basis on this site.

i know this post will get a lot of disagrees (qu'elle surprise it will be said fans I'm referring to) .

Many modern day football fans are only interested in singing when you're winning. I remember being at anfield and the kop just got louder in support when we conceded a goal.

To re-iterate, this isn't all football fans but this site shows the good, the bad and the ugly.

18.) 29 Jan 2016 09:31:37
87red, you've obviously never had a proper conversation with a bunch of Liverpool fans. Go to the local pubs near Anfield on match days, especially after the games. A lot of discussion about Liverpool, and a lot of discussion about who's not good enough. These people are out there, you're just looking in the wrong place.

To shed some light on how I feel about this whole situation. I'm pretty tired of Liverpool eyeing up players and making bids below the asking price, I'm fairly sure we have enough players to unload to make this signing cost nothing. The lowball offers we constantly see seem more like something to keep the fans happy/ excited than actually trying to sign the players. Teixeira would fit our style of play much better than Benteke,
my girlfriend who knows nothing about football could watch both players for 1-2 games each and know that. Benteke simply doesn't fit what we need, you can call it 'hate' all you want, but these days what isn't 'hate'. You say 'he couldve done better' and suddenly you're a 'hater', its just not true, having an opinion on something does not make you a hater, nobody is saying Benteke is awful and doesn't deserve to play for our club, we're saying he's good but doesn't fit our style of play. We need to cash in and use the money to not make similar mistakes.

20.) 29 Jan 2016 09:41:36
Fans have always criticised under-performing players or ones who don't make an effort on the pitch. Benteke needs to justify his wages. No hate campaigns, just fans frustration with a current under-achiever.

21.) 29 Jan 2016 09:48:06
A lot of people do not like Big Ben, I for one do. Yes he is not the runner we all want, he can be frustrating but what players arnt? Benteke has a good goal and assist records even if you look at his Liverpool days. He is the type of player that works with another striker up top yet till now he has not had any one to play with. He is on his own and a lot of the service he gets is still the balls played for sturridge or suarez with lots of explosive pace.
I'm sure any of you here that worked some where and you was. It getting the service from other departments then you to do you would struggle. Give Benteke a pre season under Klopp and I bet he starts to show his true ability. Give the lad support not call him names.

22.) 29 Jan 2016 10:38:05
Benteke is one of those cricket players who ain't famous for his footwork or technical ability. He just stands and deliver. Make no mistake we never played to his strength and we never looked like paying to it at all.
Apparently the team is getting build around Firmino and Benteke is left out.

Wait some time, and the same posters would come up and ask Klopp, Where is the plan B? We do need a physical mister up front blah blah.

23.) 29 Jan 2016 06:43:01
Imploding is what I call battling relegation. Fans calling their own players "Rats. " Fans singing peaceful songs on Paris train. Signing finished players from Brazil. And then there is the cases similar to Papy Djilbodji. Yet they are the model to follow according to some people.

Liverpool have done fine under Klopp under the circumstances. It is a well run club. Benteke has full support from most of the Liverpool fans.

24.) 29 Jan 2016 14:06:34
Insulting players and calling them rats and the worst, "deadwood" is just beyond the pale and disgusting. I agree that many of our fans are fickle, unterested in supporting the team when the going gets tough or simply incapable of having a rational conversation about players and transfers. What i don`t agree with is to just categorize people as haters just because they have disagreements on a player`s worth or ability. that is just wrong and childish. Hatred is a word reserved for Satan alone, in my book so that should not be used on fellow human beings and if so, it should be condemed. As for Benteke, many of us didn`t want him because of the very reasons we are now seeing. his talent is there and his ability to do better and contribute more is also there BUT he has to want it and desire to be great. taht is where the issue is, IMO. He has too much ability to just be as poor as he has been even tho, he has shown some glimpses of improvement, of late. He won`t be sold this summer because no one will take him off our hands hence, he`ll be here next season and Klopp will have a full preseason to work with him and team as a whole so we`ll see what happens then. As for Klopp, he may have made a couple of mistakes but as long as he`s learning from them, I`m fine with it. He has said repeatedly that he`s not a genius and that he will not always be right so it`s not as if he`s an ITK.

06 Jan 2016 01:30:45
From now on, for all important league games, we should bench Benteke and start Firmino as a false 9, with Coutinho and Lallana in a tight attacking trio.

Why? Well, we've romped over teams in 3 out of the 4 games that Klopp started Firmino as a false 9, with Coutinho and Lallana up front.

This attack routed City as well as Chelsea.

Today they *were* running roughshod over Stoke until Coutinho's injury, which led to a slightly different attack with Ibe coming on (they still did well, with Firmino leading the line, but also regularly dropping deep to build) .

Yes, critics will say. But what about Watford? True, the only game we lost and played badly with this trio was against Watford.

But that game was an anomaly. How so?

We started with the proper 4-3-3 attack (as we did today) but we conceded two early goals, due to stupid mistakes (recall Bogdan's delight! ), and then Skrtel was injured. This led to a change in tactics and formation that disrupted the tight attacking trio of Firmino/ Coutinho/ Lallana we saw in City and Chelsea.

Instead, we shifted from a 4-3-3 to a 4-3-2-1. Origi (who was brought on for Skrtel) led the line, Lucas moved to CB to replace Lucas, and Lallana was moved back to central midfield, replacing Can who was also now playing deeper as our CDM.

Coutinho and Firmino thus were playing behind Origi, in the new 4-3-2-1, reminiscent of the attack we use with Benteke playing as our CF.

And it proved to be as toothless of an attack as it is when Benteke starts in the formation. I like Origi, but I find he's actually better in a 4-4-2; doesn't seem to lead the line as effectively as Firmino.

So, while we started with Firmino as a false 9, with Coutinho and Lallana in attack, that quickly changed.

In other words, Watford was an exception, and Chelsea, City, and now Stoke, show that we're far more effective in attack with Firmino leading the line, and Benteke on the bench.

My reco to Klopp: Start Firmino as a false 9, with Coutinho/ Lallana close behind in our most important games. They'll have an off game here and there, but it's easily our best attack. Do it, Jurgen!

Fear of a Red Planet

1.) 06 Jan 2016 05:36:31
Coutinho is injured. So i think best replacement is texeira in this formation.

2.) 06 Jan 2016 10:21:53
Fear, unfortunately Watford wasn't an exception, we were already 2-0 down before Origi came o. I'm also nervous about using the Chelsea game as evidence, I can't help but feel that we played them at the perfect time and we may well have won whichever formation we played.

I agree we were brilliant against City and we bossed the game last night but i think there's a decent explanation for that. City played to beat us, they were open, tried their passing game and Klopp's style countered it perfectly. Similarly Stoke came with a confidence that they could outplay us at home and they wanted to win, that gave our forwards much more space than they've been used to. They had time to express themselves and looked great.

The league is normally different and most teams we play are more conservative, smothering us in their half, stretching our formation and exploiting this space with crosses. It's these type of games we really struggle with and I don't think Firmino as a false nine is the answer, he will just get crowded out. Don't get me wrong, I don't think just sticking Benteke up front and hoping for the best is the answer either but we do need to develop a way to beat teams that just sit back and gift us possession in front of a compact defense. What I do think Benteke offers us is our best chance of scoring in a crowded box.

27 Oct 2017 05:53:58
I actually don't mind at all bringing in Casillas in January.

Look at Cech -- who is a similar age -- he's been very very good for Arsenal.

Casillas is not only world class, he's one of the best keepers to ever play the game. As a short to intermediate term solution to our woes at the back, I like this move. He could not only shore us up, but also provide some guidance to Ward/ Karius.

It would also allow us to send Mignolet packing, which is long overdue.

Fear of a Red Planet

{Ed001's Note - for starters Cech has not been that good for Arsenal, he is clearly way below the level he was at and has not really made them any better than they were before he arrived. They would have been better spending the money elsewhere and sticking by Ospina.

Secondly Casillas has never been world class or even near to it. He has always been a very average keeper who had very little to do so he could get away with it. He has a terrible attitude, is a trouble maker and would be an awful signing, even for the bench.

As for getting rid of Mignolet there is nothing to stop that happening anyway.}

24 Aug 2017 00:11:24
I understand the offer is £80m up front, with £30m in add-ons if Coutinho wins a Nobel Peace Prize during his time at Barcelona. A further £20m will be added if he manages to win an Oscar in his first season with the club.

22 Mar 2017 04:12:22
MK Scouser and those agreeing with him/ her: I'm sorry, but it was Zorc, not Klopp, who recruited those players at BvB. Klopp is world class at coaching talent, but it was Zorc who brought in the talent.

LFC has no comparable scout or DOF. So, no, it's a bad analogy between LFC and BvB.

Coutinho, when on form, is one of the best in the world. Ankle injuries, if you've ever had one, are notoriously difficult to recover from quickly. He's obviously struggling with the injury still, given he's being brought off in games early.

There is no way in hell if we sell Coutinho we'll replace him with anyone near his quality. We need to *add* to our existing talent, not subjtract and then roll the dice and hope we score a talent as good as him.

No thanks. If having Klopp means anything, it means not having to constantly sell off our best players.

Fear of a Red Planet

{Ed001's Note - well said. It is why Dortmund struggled to maintain consistent wins, the constant selling of their best players. You have to hold onto them to progress.}