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IMO all you're saying is that you don't think there could be a good reason why she might not wish to play with someone else. Maybe the reason she wanted to play this concert at all was because she wanted to play it with Ozawa. Maybe there aren't very many conductors that she feels comfortable with, or wouldn't find it interesting to work with. And maybe all kinds of other things that would be valid too.

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....It's not such a big deal to play with a different conductor.

I think you just disqualified yourself as any kind of arbiter on this.

It's not about preference, it's about being professional. Sometimes arrangements have to be changed at late notice. It happens fairly frequently in Australia, it doesn't mean that performers cancel their commitments. And before you accuse me of being unqualified as an arbiter on this, I'll happily wager that I have more direct experience with this than you. Let me tell you the story: When I was doing my final year recital for guitar it involved performing a concerto. I was to play Rodrigo's Concerto de Aranjuez with the university orchestra. The conductor was a visiting Italian by the name of Piero Gamba. We had done two rehearshals for this performance, then he was taken ill just before the performance. Of course, I wasn't about to cancel my performance, so we got a guest conductor in at the last minute. Of course, I had to sit down with him and go through the piece and inform him of how we had been practising the concerto, he took down notes and marked his score accordingly.

In the end, the performance went fine and without a hitch. Sure, it was a little different in places, but certainly worth doing and not that hard to adjust to. I have, to date, performed 9 guitar concertos. So before you accuse me of having no knowledge on the subject, maybe you should be sure who you are talking to. I would also ask you to describe some of your own experience with playing a concerto under different conductors.

Yes, it feels a little different, but changing conductors is no reason to cancel a performance. I know of plenty of top-flight performers in Australia who have had to adjust to a new conductor at short notice. They don't worry about it at all - they just do it. We don't have to be so precious just because we play classical music. There are all kinds of intangibles in any performance and you just have to roll with it.

Feel free to tell me further how little knowledge I have on the subject...

I think you just disqualified yourself as any kind of arbiter on this.

ando, I'm going to have to agree with Mark on this. That's really an oversimplification and a bit disrespectful of Argerich. How much do we know about the chemistry between her and her favoured conductors?

Well it's not that surprising that somebody called "argerichfan" would leap to her defence, is it?

I'm not downplaying her preference to play with certain conductors. I'm just saying she could have gone through with the performance. Chemistry is nice and all, but what about all her disappointed fans who bought tickets? And this isn't the first time she has cancelled a performance... Personally, I find that disappointing. My teachers taught me that you don't cancel a performance unless your arms are in a cast.

By the way, Mark C and others who feel like taking a swipe at me - are you aware that for many conducted performances, there are understudy conductors who are assigned to take over in the event of illness or cancelation from the conductor? That would imply that it is expected that performers can adapt quickly to a new conductor.

Mark_C
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Loc: New York

What makes you think you have more experience at it than me? No need to make it personal. It doesn't help your position or make you look real good to say things like that.

But anyway: I don't want someone like Argerich to be "professional," not in the way you said.

There are thousands of people who are professional. If she made herself be "professional" in the way you're saying, she wouldn't be Argerich.

One of the things that often enables people like Argerich to be what they are is that they're highly particular, in whichever kinds of ways. (In case you never noticed.)

I'm not saying that being "professional" requires that you be so particular -- but she is. That's a big part of what makes her Argerich. She has extreme intensity, individuality, and yes, 'particularity.' And I think I can assure you that her concern goes beyond having the concert "go fine and without a hitch." When you say something like that, regardless of how much experience you may have and regardless of how excellent you may be, you make it sound like you just don't appreciate some of the considerations, as was the case with that earlier post.

I didn't 'take a swipe' at you; it was about what you said. It's fine to have a strong preference for performers to be more flexible about such things, but I think it misses something to say that it's necessarily "not such a big deal" to play with a different conductor.

_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

What makes you think you have more experience at it than me? No need to make it personal. It doesn't help your position or make you look real good to say things like that.

My purpose wasn't to bignote mself, it was that your comment implied that I didn't know what it meant to change conductors. I have directly experienced it. It wasn't so bad. Your comment actually made me suspect that you haven't been through the same experience - more that you are accepting Argerich's rationale without having tested it yourself (of course, this is speculation at this point since we don't know what she has said about it, this is just in theory). If you have experienced it, I stand corrected.

Quote:

But anyway: I don't want someone like Argerich to be "professional," not in the way you said.

There are thousands of people who are professional. If she made herself be "professional" in the way you're saying, she wouldn't be Argerich.

I find that surprising. If I had bought tickets I certainly would want her to be professional enough to show up.

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One of the things that often enables people like Argerich to be what they are is that they're highly particular, in whichever kinds of ways. (In case you never noticed.)

You are quite right there. Most great performers are particular/peculiar, but for me I draw the line at accepting them not performing what they are scheduled for. I can't really accept that as a peculiarity. I don't believe other odd performers like Kissin would do that. If you can accept it, that's fine.

Quote:

I'm not saying that being "professional" requires that you be so particular -- but she is. That's a big part of what makes her Argerich. She has extreme intensity, individuality, and yes, 'particularity.' And I think I can assure you that her concern goes beyond having the concert "go fine and without a hitch." When you say something like that, regardless of how much experience you may have and regardless of how excellent you may be, you make it sound like you just don't appreciate some of the considerations, as was the case with that earlier post.

I'm not saying it's ideal, but if you bought tickets for her performance and she canceled, would you be celebrating her individuality or would you rather see her play, even if it wasn't under her ideal circumstances? I certainly can appreciate what great conductors bring to the table. Indeed, even the rehearsals I had with Maestro Gamba were an inspiration. What I am talking about is making the best of a situation. I don't see why you would equate that with being undiscerning.

Quote:

I didn't 'take a swipe' at you; it was about what you said. It's fine to have a strong preference for performers to be more flexible about such things, but I think it misses something to say that it's necessarily "not such a big deal" to play with a different conductor.

Ok then, it's a big deal. Do you still think a performer should cancel for this reason? Is there a point where you just have to soldier on? Do you think performers who do accept a change of conductor are somehow less discerning? I don't think they are, I just think they are fulfilling their responsibility to perform. When I had a change of conductor, I went from a internationally renowned and great man, to a virtually unknown local. It was a little disappointing for me, but I was able to adjust and I'm glad I did. No, I'm not Argerich, not even close, but does my willingness to accept a change of circumstance say something negative and undiscerning about me? Also, what about the other top-flight artists who have accepted a late change of conductor without complaint? I think it actually speaks highly of them and their adaptability.

Mark_C
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Registered: 11/11/09
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The answers to all the questions you just asked are implicit in the post that you were replying to.

Let me add, though, that I could have made my points in a nicer way -- and I'm sorry I didn't. All I mean to say is that there could be aspects here that you weren't taking into account. I just got carried away because I was feeling defensive on Argerich's behalf -- partly because of my regard for her, and partly because I myself can identify very much with this kind of "particularity."

_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

I walked out of an Argerich recital once. I delayed buying the ticket until one hour before showtime, specifically asking if she was in the building and going to perform. The first person to come onstage was a man with a microphone who made the dreaded announcement that they'd fortunately been able to find a "replacement" for the indisposed Ms. Argerich. They even gave me a hard time when I asked for the ticket to be reimbursed.I guess the show must go on, but what the heck!

The answers to all the questions you just asked are implicit in the post that you were replying to.

Let me add, though, that I could have made my points in a nicer way -- and I'm sorry I didn't. All I mean to say is that there could be aspects here that you weren't taking into account. I just got carried away because I was feeling defensive on Argerich's behalf -- partly because of my regard for her, and partly because I myself can identify very much with this kind of "particularity."

Ok, no problem, I can accept that you see Ms Argerich differently than I do. We can agree to disagree. For the record, I think she's a marvellous talent when she does show up.

Andromaque
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Registered: 08/29/08
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A few points are worth emphasizing:1- It was Ozawa who cancelled all his appearances in the US and Europe; Argerich was only in a couple of them.2- In 2010, she cancelled rarely, once for family reasons (replaced by Ivo Pogorelich). On other occasions her concerts were cancelled becasue her performing partner was ill (Nelson Freire) or involved in a court case (Pletnev). 3- She has melanoma, now metastatic, that required significant treatment. (She also gave a benefit concert at Carnegie Hall in gratitude for her so far successful treatment). 4- She is 70 years old this year5- She is a marvellous artist who has been incredibly generous to her colleagues and who has done more than any musician I know of, to support and launch careers of talented and unknown musicians. 6- She is a living legend7- Yes she can be elusive and particular. Nobody is clear as to her reasons for cancellations other than some of the obvious ones. She has described at times what sounds like stage fright especially when performing alone, despite her remarkable facility.

Regardless, she should not be dismissed as a start-up whose teacher forgot to tell her about commitment and who might need lessons in professionalism. Thus, my and others' peeves with ando's humble comments..

BD76: Chances are excellent that she will make the LA concerts (her only ones remaining in the US for 2011). She looked well during the Chopin competition (where she was a juror and performed with Maria Joao Pires as well as playing Chopin's first concerto in honor of her teacher Gulda) and she has appeared in multiple concerts since then without any cancellations. You are likely in for a treat..

pianoloverus
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I've never had to experience an Argerich cancellation for the three or four times I've seen her.

I do think to some extent there is what I'd call a "John McEnroe" approach if any musician has numerous cancellations where the reason seems less than compelling. I'm not talking about exhibiting a nasty personality, but that McEnroe knew he could get away with court antics because he was one of the best players/biggest draws in tennis at the time. Similarly, I wonder if Argerich, or any musician, would cancel as much as some claim she does if she wasn't a living legend.

I'd be interested, if anyone really knows, in how many performances she has cancelled(not where the conductor cancelled and she followed suit)in the last five years or ten year where the reason was less than compelling. My impression is that is hasn't been that many, but I don't have the figures.

Mark_C
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Originally Posted By: pianoloverus

....I do think to some extent there is what I'd call a "John McEnroe" approach if any musician has numerous cancellations where the reason seems less than compelling. I'm not talking about exhibiting a nasty personality, but that McEnroe knew he could get away with court antics because he was one of the best players/biggest draws in tennis at the time. Similarly, I wonder if Argerich, or any musician, would cancel as much as some claim she does if she wasn't a living legend....

Absolutely -- and I think that's a good comparison. I think it's safe to say you can't get away with it without being extraordinary, and if you know you can, maybe you do it. I do think there's a difference between the two, in the sense that I can well imagine Argerich's stuff being inseparably connected to her greatness in her field but I can't similarly for McEnroe, maybe just because I don't know tennis as well.

My main wonderment -- and criticism -- about this whole thing is, why concerts like this get announced and ticketed so far in advance. There are various reasons I can think of, and none of them seem to work. We could say that it's to ensure a good sale -- but we know it's not necessary for that; if they announced the concert (let's say) just a month in advance, it would still sell out immediately. We could say it's to allow the performers to plan and rehearse for it, but.....they could do that anyway -- they could plan on it themselves, including with the orchestra, having Carnegie hold the date, with everyone knowing that if it turns out they're really going to go ahead with it, then it can be officially announced and ticketed, with the certainty that it would still sell out (immediately).

I know that it's fairly routine to schedule such concerts so far in advance, that it would be unusual to start doing it as I said, and that even if it looked all-systems-go a month in advance there could still turn out to be a cancellation. But with a performer as 'particular' (or whatever) as Argerich, with their advanced age, and with their health issues, I really wondered why it had been publicly announced and ticketed so far in advance. It seems simply to worsen the odds, needlessly.

_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

....I do think to some extent there is what I'd call a "John McEnroe" approach if any musician has numerous cancellations where the reason seems less than compelling. I'm not talking about exhibiting a nasty personality, but that McEnroe knew he could get away with court antics because he was one of the best players/biggest draws in tennis at the time. Similarly, I wonder if Argerich, or any musician, would cancel as much as some claim she does if she wasn't a living legend....

Absolutely -- and I think that's a good comparison. I think it's safe to say you can't get away with it without being extraordinary, and if you know you can, maybe you do it. I do think there's a difference between the two, in the sense that I can well imagine Argerich's stuff being inseparably connected to her greatness in her field but I can't similarly for McEnroe, maybe just because I don't know tennis as well.

My main wonderment -- and criticism -- about this whole thing is, why concerts like this get announced and ticketed so far in advance. There are various reasons I can think of, and none of them seem to work. We could say that it's to ensure a good sale -- but we know it's not necessary for that; if they announced the concert (let's say) just a month in advance, it would still sell out immediately. We could say it's to allow the performers to plan and rehearse for it, but.....they could do that anyway -- they could plan on it themselves, including with the orchestra, having Carnegie hold the date, with everyone knowing that if it turns out they're really going to go ahead with it, then it can be officially announced and ticketed, with the certainty that it would still sell out (immediately).

I know that it's fairly routine to schedule such concerts so far in advance, that it would be unusual to start doing it as I said, and that even if it looked all-systems-go a month in advance there could still turn out to be a cancellation. But with a performer as 'particular' (or whatever) as Argerich, with their advanced age, and with their health issues, I really wondered why it had been publicly announced and ticketed so far in advance. It seems simply to worsen the odds, needlessly.

Mark_C
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Loc: New York

Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King

I often wonder why artists cancel frequently, too.

How about if you don't feel you can give it your best?

For most of us, that's not a good reason. For someone like Argerich -- with an all-time world-class standard that she presumably wants to meet -- arguably it is.

I had tickets for this concert. And I'm glad the concert isn't going forward if, for whatever reason, she felt it wasn't going to represent her as she wished, or, as I said before, if she just isn't into doing the piece with someone else -- which amounts to the same thing, because if she's not into it, it's not going to be Argerich.

With people like that, it isn't just a thing of "go ahead and play the program," nor should it be. Maybe some people feel they're paying just to "see" these performers and to hear the pieces get played. I don't, and I feel pretty sure the performers don't.

_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)