This is the kind of thing I’m talking about

December 2, 2011

So. Avengers. I can’t wait. We all know it. Over the summer, a publicity poster was released:

(Click to make big.) I love this poster, because it’s full of action and character. It’s dynamic, it’s fun. Also — Black Widow looks awesome. She’s wearing sensible clothing, and she’s in the same action pose as Captain America. She isn’t a “girl hero” here, she’s just one of the heroes.

Contrast to this, the newer poster recently released:

You know why I hate this one? Which of these is not like the other? The men have these manly 3/4 profile poses, looking very serious and ready for action. Black Widow: 3/4 profile — from the back. Here, everyone, look at my ass. It’s what makes this cartoon so funny — because it’s true. It happens. It’s a little tiny thing. But it’s important, because it happens over and over again and it tells us what Hollywood thinks women are here for, and it’s not being heroes. Black Widow ought to be more than her ass, you know? She’s an Avenger.

I have the funny feeling that if they posed her like the men all we would see is her cleavage. Her top is cut rather low in the first poster, but you can’t see anything because of the way her body is turned. No win situation?

I think people make choices, and those choices mean something. Having her face forward might have shown more cleavage, but it wouldn’t have made her look so *different* — and dare I say out of place — compared to the rest of them.

I agree with you that it needs to be changed.
It is a slow process, but it has been changing over the years of my reading comics. If you look at the early Batgirl comics, she went around with a purse over her shoulder. Invisible Woman used to be called Invisible Girl, even though she was an adult. As with everything, change takes time, and I see that it is happening. maybe not fast enough , but it is happening. Do you agree?

While there is definite focus here on her ass, I would like to point out that this is just a terrible poster visually, thrown together by some hack. I mean at least you can still see her face. Captain America is traditionally the leader of the team-he’s the first one in the pix, and his face is obscured and he appears smaller than everyone else.
Not saying there isn’t a need for change – just saying this crap poster isn’t the best evidence to base it on.

I think the worst part is that her pose could have worked. Fury stands out because he’s facing a different direction than everyone else. Black Widow could have stood out because her back is to the viewer–like she has something to hide. If only her ass was covered so her pose was more mysterious and less cheesecakey.

I so agree. Hollywood’s vision of women is the main reason why I refuse to watch Suckerpunch. Can women not be badass while being fully clothed?! Does showing copious amounts of skin somehow up their badassness powers?

Other than the fact that Scarlett Johanson is a beautiful woman, since I was a kid, female comic book characters have been “perfect.” Their bodies were flawless. Even She-Hulk had the sexy curves, when female body-builders don’t look anything like that. Black Widow was always the type of person that could kill you with her bare hands and still look sexy doing it. By the way, I did read the “Black Widow” series.

Interesting points, but you also work from a double standard.
In the poster, the men’s masculinity is emphasized, as is the one woman’s femininity.
Some here speak as if they want the masculine aspects of a woman emphasized instead. The guys are “meat racks” just like the women, except the women don’t like being thought of in the same way.
Are women trying to say they want to be guys? Is this a way of showing that you’re ashamed of being women???? What’s going on here???

C — It’s not “masculine” v. “feminine.” It’s the way that they’re presented. The way whoever made the poster wants us to look at them.

In the first poster, Black Widow is in an action pose — the same post as Captain America, even. She’s there because she’s powerful, she’s a hero, she’s capable, and so on. She’s still feminine — curvy, flowing red hair, etc. But also powerful.

In the second, her pose is obviously different — and sexier. All the men are shown in powerful poses, and she’s in one that marks her as a sex symbol. Her standing to face the viewer would not make her any less feminine (as we’ve pointed out, they could have shown off her cleavage if they wanted to). But this pose — the one that emphasizes her ass over any other feature — marks her as different from her colleagues, when she shouldn’t be.

It’s almost like she’s got her back turned to the fight that everyone else is facing. It’s stupid.

I agree with you, but you have to understand how executives and advertisers think.

The whole comic genre has a lot of underlying sexism in my opinion. I mean, they are all drawn with giant breasts, etc. You’re telling me that there are not *any* normal-looking supers? It probably started as a way to sell comics, and now it is just *that way*.

One of the reasons that X2 is my favorite superhero movie, is that it really showcased the female mutants in a realistic, enpowered way. That, and Magneto gets scenes of epic badass.

David; On the “giant breasts” thing, interestingly enough, in Joss Whedon’s introduction to the comic “Fray” (about a future Slayer) he said his instructions to the artist, about the protagonist, were that she be “slight of build. (translation: small breasts)”.

“I agree with you, but you have to understand how executives and advertisers think.”

We all know how Hollywood thinks–that men won’t watch a movie about women, but women will watch a movie about men. (You substitute any social hierarchy for white/people of color, able/disabled, etc.) Black Widow demoted from female hero to fighting f*** toy (to steal the expression from Jennifer Siebel Newsom).because even though there are 7 male heroes that they could identify with, they really need to make sure she was appealing to men to secure that elusive guy market.

I understand that Hollywood (and comic books) are androcentric most of the time–but I don’t like it, and I don’t think that becoming less androcentric is going to cause the the total collapse of the market as we know it..

I understand that the male/female divide you talked about is well known. What I’m saying is that its not a director thing or even writer things as much as what the execs allow to be green lit. That’s my take on it.