Where's Jeff_36? {!#%@} Canadians burned the White House down. He needs to answer for this shite.

LOL, I was just getting to post that:

According to the sources, Trudeau pressed Trump on how he could justify the tariffs as a "national security" issue. In response, Trump quipped to Trudeau, "Didn't you guys burn down the White House?" referring to the War of 1812.

“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

Where's Jeff_36? {!#%@} Canadians burned the White House down. He needs to answer for this shite.

LOL, I was just getting to post that:

According to the sources, Trudeau pressed Trump on how he could justify the tariffs as a "national security" issue. In response, Trump quipped to Trudeau, "Didn't you guys burn down the White House?" referring to the War of 1812.

« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »Joseph E. Davies

Well...........Trumpsters also know USA has had a long strong relationship with the government of Germany AS EVIDENCED BY: ".............this is the anniversary of the D-Day Invasion............"

You can't make this stuff up.

Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

Where's Jeff_36? {!#%@} Canadians burned the White House down. He needs to answer for this shite.

I was busy capturing Detroit. I have returned! And I'm bringing the ghost of Issac Brock to the G7! Trump wont know what hit him! Muahahahahahaha!

Free Frederick Douglass, Jeff, I mean it!!!!

“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

For starters Laurence Rees' "Auschwitz, A New History" gives a good general history.

What sort of focus do you want to look at?

“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

For starters Laurence Rees' "Auschwitz, A New History" gives a good general history.

What sort of focus do you want to look at?

Assuming he's joining because this is a "Holocaust denial" board. Anatomy of Auschwitz, The case for Auschwitz, Auschwitz 1270 to present, or Technique and operation is where they would want to start.

« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »Joseph E. Davies

I missed this, sorry mark_gr. Non-specialist, non-technical books that I found valuable include Deborah Dwork & Robert Jan Pelt, Auschwitz, 1270 to the Present; Hermann Langbein, Men in Auschwitz; Robert Jan Pelt, The Case for Auschwitz (this book is based on Pelt's work on the Irving trial); Sybille Steinbacher, Auschwitz: A History (brief narrative history of the camp); and Yisrael Gutman & Michael Berenbaum, Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp.

The 5-volume museum history of the camp is, IMO, indispensable, as is Pressac, Auschwitz: The Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers for evidence for gassing (here).

On daily life in the camp I liked Primo Levi, Survival in Auschwitz and The Drowned and the Saved; for the Sonderkommando, Gideon Greif, We Wept Without Tears.

For starters Laurence Rees' "Auschwitz, A New History" gives a good general history.

What sort of focus do you want to look at?

Assuming he's joining because this is a "Holocaust denial" board. Anatomy of Auschwitz, The case for Auschwitz, Auschwitz 1270 to present, or Technique and operation is where they would want to start.

I think Rees is a better place to start depending on what you want to know.

I just got “Anatomy” today.

“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

Sorry, posted before I saw this comment.
I liked it better than Steinbacher. I think by the time I got to her book I wanted something deeper.

I think it depends on what you want. I think D-H and your books are good suggestions but it might be a bit much for someone who is just getting into it. Pressac makes more sense once you get the basics, same with Van Pelt.

“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

Yeah, Steinbacher is more like an essay. A quick read for the basic narrative and key points. Thing is, I don't know what mark_gr has read and/or knows and what mark_gr is after, so who knows what the best recommendations are!?!?! LOL I guess if it was a "first book" on the camp, and just one title, I'd recommend Dwork & Pelt's book. It's readable, has good detail, and goes into a fair amount of depth.

I liked Van Pelt and Dwork’s book as well. It got deep into the history of the town itself.

“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

Honestly Rees book kinda really only felt like his 6 hour film. Didn't have a lot of value - content wise - for what we discuss with deniers.

« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »Joseph E. Davies

I’m not sure what mark wants to read about it, that’s why I suggested Rees. Steinbacher is OK for a general read but I didn’t think it worthwhile.

If mark is more interested in the Holocaust denial part then Van Pelt’s court report or The Case for Auschwitz is good for that, along with Pressac.

“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

I remember I saw it once at 1/2 Price Books. I don’t know why I didn’t get it but I regret it now.

“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

If I can I will track down the other forensic report the Poles completed in the 1940’s.

“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

I agree, I read Pressac before I was ready for it. Just my opinion but Rees gives a good overall view of the subject, not just Auschwitz.

Once you get the bird's eye view it helps to focus on the subject. If I was Mark I wouldn't start with Pressac or Pelt.

I didn't think Steinbacher was bad but Stat Mech liked it better than I did.

“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

I liked Steinbacher for pulling back, highlighting patterns, themes, key points after immersion in details. Not a good one to start with. Has mark_gr done any reading on the camp, do we know?

An aside, my father was a college professor. He taught Faulkner, among other things. In high school I asked which of Faulkner's novels to read. He told me I wasn't ready. In college I asked - he told me I wasn't ready yet. When I graduated, I asked again - and again was told I wasn't ready. I asked during grad school - not ready. Same deal when I left grad school. Finally in my early 30s I said, "{!#%@} all, I am going to read this bastard." I read The Sound and the Fury, Light in August, Absalom Absalom and As I Lay Dying before telling my father. I really couldn't quite come to grips with how great these books are. I asked why he'd always told me to wait before reading them. He repeated that I hadn't been ready. I asked, "How would you know when I was ready?" He said, "When you picked up the books and read them despite what I told you." LOL Over a year or so I read every book and short story Faulkner wrote. That was a very, very satisfying year. I was ready!

Moral of the story: there's a part of me that says just jump the hell in the good stuff.

“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

The first book I read on Auschwitz was Levy's Survival in Auschwitz (If This Is a Man). Then IIRC The Drowned and the Saved. And then Langbein, Men in Auschwitz. None of these titles figures much in HD debate; all three were IMO outstanding. As you wrote, a lot depends on what one is after . . .

Invasion of Canada? I'm close to the border anything happens I'll record.

Also started revisiting - as a break from the Kirov Murder - the An Gorta Mór of 1845-1849 (some falsely extend it to 50-52) and the faithful followers of John Mitchel.

« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »Joseph E. Davies

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Started “Anatomy” last night. I should’ve bought it years ago.

I remember I saw it once at 1/2 Price Books. I don’t know why I didn’t get it but I regret it now.

Been reading this as I get the time.

I'm going to Arkansas this weekend to visit my brother and mother, I'm hoping to finish it on the road or in the hotel.

It is very good but one surprising thing is that the chapters dealing with the hospital and women in the camp is rather lightly sourced.

“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Started “Anatomy” last night. I should’ve bought it years ago.

I remember I saw it once at 1/2 Price Books. I don’t know why I didn’t get it but I regret it now.

Been reading this as I get the time.

I'm going to Arkansas this weekend to visit my brother and mother, I'm hoping to finish it on the road or in the hotel.

It is very good but one surprising thing is that the chapters dealing with the hospital and women in the camp is rather lightly sourced.

Finished this today.

Excellent. I don’t think I’d start with it but once you have the basics this is a very important book.

“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

I started reading “The Liberators” by Michael Hirsh last night. It’s about the American soldiers who liberated the concentration camps. It actually starts out with the experience of two Jewish soldiers that the Germans captured during the Battle of the Bulge.

“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

I suggested some books to my library a couple of weeks ago to add to their digital library:
The Death of Democracy: Hitler’s Rise to Power and the Downfall of the Weimar Republic (never read this one but it looked interesting)
Ordinary Men
Savage Continent

They obliged me and then checked all of them out to me at the same time.

So, put aside “The Liberators” in favor of “Death of Democracy.” I decided to re-read both “Ordinary Men” and “Savage Continent.”

Initial impressions of “Death of Democracy:”

I like it a lot. It started slow but picked up. If I have some time I will share some things.

“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Isn't that written by Hett, the guy who wrote a book on the Reichstag fire?

Yeah, it is. I haven’t read that one.

“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951