Hi, OK talking bout Zen dont happen I've been to sesshins at Mountain and Rivers order in the Catskills its just sitting 10hrs a day, cooking, cleaning, sleeping, craping, and still being able to check out the vague outline of light through the black (but worn sheer) robes of the hot (head shaven cool too) oriental Nun who hits you on L&R bubbling well acu points to wake you up in zazen of course only after supplication and request (some Soto S&M thing tho when I asked for Another Please she gave me a funny look , FYI my post on Deshimaru and how does one become both totally wise and absolutely powerful at the same time:His Ans. In Japan continual Bu-warrior practice and Do-Zazen, as for us round-eyes "Chicken Nuggets"

ONWARD:Some may not know of it's existence these past 3000 yrs, maybe some have an interest, or as I, have used and treated the the most best Translation Fo me as an actual entity to be respected, treated and as such has specific requirements of the questioner to either receive advice, warnings, chastisements (one of the peeves the Oracle has is rephrasing a question cause you want a different answer...Being the Lunkhead I am I purposefully did this to see if the answer was the same...The Unchanging Hexagram I received essentially in Taoist, Confucian and R.L.Wings Modern Chinese translation "The Illustrated I CHING" was essentially {the universe has been angered by you, do not do this again}...course I cant look for this hexagram to see if it exists as the Oracle dislikes being read as a mere "Book" and I never did that again. What I'm doing now may actually be pissing the Oracle off... as I used it properly yesterday and received a odd take on the current question (One keeps one's discourse with the Oracle Private, Your own Oracle and note book with personal use only coins is what it likes) odd but rather precise and one disturbing thread and I thanked the Oracle tho the main motion of the question and the one disturbing thread were found in the only two changing lines and were hammered home in the second hexagram that would represent immediate future if the changing lines were followed (the Oracle will try to help with suggestions, but proper wording w/ a distinct time frame involved and request for guidance as opposed to a Yes or No answer [dis aint dark arts and its no fake squeegeee board]) NOW I can feel the Oracle leering at me as I ASK Y'AAAAAAAL....anyone else as freakin weird as me or am I Captain of the Crazy Train....Also for those into the I Ching, the rules and now tattered and bound 1982 1st ed. well...I have no clue how I got a book I didn't know anything about and only a dim recollection from some smoke filled room listening to an old, well dressed in a red whatever ya call that cloth, quiet Asian woman smoking a cigarette from an obscenely long Ivory(?) cig holder w/ black mouthpiece, and having to repeat the rules, NOW I [censored] OFF THE ORACLE or this spreads its power and I am a puppet???

IS The I CHING a book of Divination where in the proper mind set explanation of cause of what is current and possible advise to aid the Questioner and alter the future? OR: AS THERE is an older order of hexagrams 'The King Wen' sequence (the dude who got this wacked idea staring at the pattern on a tortoise shell as the sage story is told, Tho I think he saw the pattern licking bufo toxin from frogs...now Ive done it) I ASK Y'ALL if you more Believe the older version is Taoist mysticism influenced

(Read, wahhh, I dont want to die I want Immortality, throw some Yarrow sticks and after I Lick the rather potent gland secreted Bufo toxin laden frog Ill see Immor...OD'ed oops)

(uhhh dont do that by the way, dont matter so much since the active uh 'toxin' is denatured by enzymes in saliva and stomach, youd have to milk the glands behind the eyes and dehydrate the exudate on a cool germ free petri dish and...oops did i mention the particular frog requires specific diet from its place of birth for the toxin to be produced (like poison dart frogs need specific diet to secrete acetocholinesterase which effectively paralyzes ALL NeuroMuscular conduction-Lesson of some sages dont lick frogs, you might die, or you might find yourself, whoisyou?, unable to wrap around ego death or a simply brutal alternate reality ya wernt ready fo)

THIRD POSITION OR MORE HERESY, IT is known Confucius did some pretty PERSONAL ADGENDA TYPE translations and additions (Confucius-1st Spin Dr. to Control the Populace AS HE SAW FIT_PLAYIN GOD)

I was introduced to the I Ching in 1982 as an impartial method to access a "snapshot" or 'Cookie Dough slice' of the moment and intent of the seer (Questioner) and their interconnection to motions or cycles inherent in the Universe via the Questioned (The I Ching as "Oracle" sans Serif, sorry Neo:( )

The texts and translations I first found were so obtuse as to be straight...geometry...so cool (Aside from some ancillary works I was fast to dig up such as the seminal work by Carl Jung "Man and his Symbols" where buried deep [you want it, you look the journey is as cool as Jung's "Future Sight" of a now common phrase.... "Synchronicity" or the Quantum Physics supported (kinda, no one ever agrees they just argue, boring) concept that at the smallest levels of existent anything (the Planck scale, I think I recall some dumb number like 10 to the -48th power meters) allows for such a sweeping inter-connectivity it blows doors on the "butterfly flaps its wings, and a tidal wave is formed on the other side of the earth" ancient sage crap, its a new age outta my way

-Karl. Too much too fast? or did ya dig the entrainment detours? OR is my Treatment of an ancient Chinese Divination Tool too far out...lots a cool I Ching stuff

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do not try to spork the post, for that is impossible, only realize there is no post to spork

lol! didn't mean to be short...but your post was long, and hard to read, and very confusing. cutting through all the talk...relatively few people on THIS forum wander down to reflective forums (like the Meditation one), and fewer still will publicly post anything more than the usual pragmatic blah-blah.

so, i doubt anyone 'does' i-ching. but even if they did, seems like fresh air and exercise, and healthy habits go a lot further to find that balance the i-ching espouses.

I Ignored Oracular advise about moving to go back to school, hexagram advised the time to lead was approaching and any move, I be da foo....

year later I be da Foo and now so hard to find job...but worse...if my query concerns how best to behave for the common good and what will happen in the next month....and The Book hits the hexagram decline and the changing line reminds me that it is nature that even the spirit must die to be reborn...welll, my Asthma was worse before the Book and ..YIKEs..the second hexagram reminds of decline and suggests just enjoy your MOMENT....were the past confirmations coincidence...syncronicity...OR should I NOT BUY any GREEN BANANNAS!!!

-Karl. OW!...ok I'll eat.

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do not try to spork the post, for that is impossible, only realize there is no post to spork

No worries, twernt brusk, in fact your Zen powers moved so fast you now know...I cant type:)

And did you actually read all that?Hard to follow often, on some points theres no leeway to free my mind, sometimes tho....hope no one upset bout this... I type out whats moving through, I spar that way too so Im actually going to hit hopefully several vital spots on the way to the kill...little OCD.

Its also just not like zazen, the post is the open window and I kick back and let the thoughts do what they want.

Now anit that a weird conceptual view of what a MA post cant be used for other than dry rhetoric:)-Karl. Peace.

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do not try to spork the post, for that is impossible, only realize there is no post to spork