Subotai45 wrote:So basically, you're saying that the League of Cairo won't enforce doctrines on unwilling members, it'll just have a founding member, a security council member, attack states that don't abide by laws which they never agreed to?

@Red - want some ground-to-space weaponry? I'll give it to you real cheap.

Sure how much will they cost?

Also any attack on Asterian equipment will result in war so we highly advise Mattopia not to threaten our nation with an attack when Asteria does not pose a threat to them or intends to harm them. We simply do not recognize the League of Cairo as our master because our sovereignty as a nation is required and we do not want to be the puppets of another nation. We would expect other nations to respect that sovereignty instead of imposing their laws through reckless force upon another people.

Subotai45 wrote:So basically, you're saying that the League of Cairo won't enforce doctrines on unwilling members, it'll just have a founding member, a security council member, attack states that don't abide by laws which they never agreed to?

@Red - want some ground-to-space weaponry? I'll give it to you real cheap.

Sure how much will they cost?

Also any attack on Asterian equipment will result in war so we highly advise Mattopia not to threaten our nation with an attack when Asteria does not pose a threat to them or intends to harm them. We simply do not recognize the League of Cairo as our master because our sovereignty as a nation is required and we do not want to be the puppets of another nation. We would expect other nations to respect that sovereignty instead of imposing their laws through reckless force upon another people.

But you don't have any equipment there, and if you set one up after this, if it passes- it will be viewed as a threatening and agressive action upon the UMC, and will be dealt with. (Your only space research says you have a satellite, and no mention of *any* weaponized space installations, let alone one that low)

The intent at this time is irrelevant - an installation at that height would pass over Mattibean territory, and as demonstrated by Sybus in the recent war, can only be used as launching surprise attacks. As the region is not within Asterian national borders or sovereignty, it is up to international agreements to regulate acceptable behavior.

.·ï¨Ï¨Ï¨ï·.mat.gopack.·ï¨Ï¨Ï¨ï·.Mattopia of the Mattibean Union in CYOC. You should join

Subotai45 wrote:So basically, you're saying that the League of Cairo won't enforce doctrines on unwilling members, it'll just have a founding member, a security council member, attack states that don't abide by laws which they never agreed to?

@Red - want some ground-to-space weaponry? I'll give it to you real cheap.

Sure how much will they cost?

Also any attack on Asterian equipment will result in war so we highly advise Mattopia not to threaten our nation with an attack when Asteria does not pose a threat to them or intends to harm them. We simply do not recognize the League of Cairo as our master because our sovereignty as a nation is required and we do not want to be the puppets of another nation. We would expect other nations to respect that sovereignty instead of imposing their laws through reckless force upon another people.

But you don't have any equipment there, and if you set one up after this, if it passes- it will be viewed as a threatening and agressive action upon the UMC, and will be dealt with. (Your only space research says you have a satellite, and no mention of *any* weaponized space installations, let alone one that low)

The intent at this time is irrelevant - an installation at that height would pass over Mattibean territory, and as demonstrated by Sybus in the recent war, can only be used as launching surprise attacks. As the region is not within Asterian national borders or sovereignty, it is up to international agreements to regulate acceptable behavior.

So you are putting your mandate over another country essentially… regulating acceptable behavior… who decided the UMC was the police force of the world?

If this passes with international approval, then it would be the consensus of the nations of Earth that that region of the lower orbitals should be demilitarized. If a nation is then in violation of that, by unilaterally deciding to place weapons of war in positions only suited to conduct sneak attacks on other nations, that is an aggressive act. As these stations will be orbiting over the UMC, that will be seen as a violation of international agreements, and a threat to our security.

Of course, this would not prevent nations from setting up such weapons in higher orbits, or within their own air space below. But the zone being discussed in the motion covers an area which is only useful for sneak attacks, and not for 'regular' pinpoint bombardment.

If Asteria were setting an installation up there for military purposes, it would clearly be for an offensive, first strike, sneak attack use - and be useless for defensive applications. It would be akin to the UMC setting up a floating fortress 13.9 miles out from the shore of Japan. Is it in international waters? Yes. Is it useful for anything except an attack on you? No. It has no defensive applications. Imagine that fortress were set up 13.9 miles out from Shanghai. It is now a threat to you and the CoM, and has no defensive applications against either one of you.

.·ï¨Ï¨Ï¨ï·.mat.gopack.·ï¨Ï¨Ï¨ï·.Mattopia of the Mattibean Union in CYOC. You should join

The Worker's Republic of Terra wishes to submit it's belated vote on the Cairo Resolution. Acknowledging the destruction of the ongoing war in Southeast Asia and strategies that were only possible with the breaking of the terms in this resolution, the Worker's Republic officially submits it's Aye vote.

Also, the Republic wishes to warn it's ally in Asteria that they are standing up to a resolution made by the international community on Terra, not a single hegemonic authority out of Cairo alone. Although, we wish to stay true to the Ascension Pact and come to your aid, any war concerning your country's deployment of internationally deemed illegal weaponry will force us to make the claim that said war will be caused by you, not an outside aggressor.

We hope that Asteria acknowledges our words as simple advice from a friend rather than as a warning from a foreign foe.

Leader of the Worker's Republic of TerranLeader of the West African Imperium-in-ExileHonorary Custodian of the Cyon Imperium

Played Gondor in The Two Towers PBF variant

Those born once will die twice and those born twice will die once.-Chuck Missler

This is our cheapest ground-space missile. We can also set up large stationary platforms that pack more of a punch or even spaceships so you could fight in orbit yourself, let us know if you're interested in either of those.

MinnesotanKaiser wrote:The Worker's Republic of Terra wishes to submit it's belated vote on the Cairo Resolution. Acknowledging the destruction of the ongoing war in Southeast Asia and strategies that were only possible with the breaking of the terms in this resolution, the Worker's Republic officially submits it's Aye vote.

Also, the Republic wishes to warn it's ally in Asteria that they are standing up to a resolution made by the international community on Terra, not a single hegemonic authority out of Cairo alone. Although, we wish to stay true to the Ascension Pact and come to your aid, any war concerning your country's deployment of internationally deemed illegal weaponry will force us to make the claim that said war will be caused by you, not an outside aggressor.

We hope that Asteria acknowledges our words as simple advice from a friend rather than as a warning from a foreign foe.

The League of Cairo specifically states it will not impose its laws on non-members. Why is it then you are imposing these laws on Asteria when we are not a member of Cairo...

Mattopia states that they will not attack us out of adherence to Cairo but rather as a issue of Mattopian security.

What about Asterian Security? Must we always be required to rely on international order? Where was international order when Sybus invaded us? Not there…

Asteria will not have its rights and sovereignty as a nation challenged and will not accept foreign laws to determine how we run things here.

If Mattopia were to fire upon us when we did nothing to them then I can hardly think you can find us the aggressor and think that your tight relationship with a fellow communist nation has blinded your view on foreign policy.

It was members of the League of Cairo which drove Sybus out of Asteria.

This bill isn't about limiting a nation's sovereignty, it is a motion to respect the sovereignty of all nations. Furthermore this bill would not prevent orbital installations on other orbitals, the majority of which are better suited for warfare and outside this zone. So I ask you RedSun, if Mattopia placed an army over your head, what would you do?

Outside of this debate, I would also to give some advice to Asteria and Sybus and to other nations who would rather be quiet and isolated rather than be involved: don't. By removing yourself from the international community, by shunning it, you remove all of your ability to influence it and build better bonds with other nations.

¸,,¸_____}\,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,...,,,,,,`’’´¯¯¯¯¯}/’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’¨¨¨¯The simulacrum is never that which conceals the truth-it is the truth which conceals that there is none. The simulacrum is true.

musashisamurai wrote:It was members of the League of Cairo which drove Sybus out of Asteria.

This bill isn't about limiting a nation's sovereignty, it is a motion to respect the sovereignty of all nations. Furthermore this bill would not prevent orbital installations on other orbitals, the majority of which are better suited for warfare and outside this zone. So I ask you RedSun, if Mattopia placed an army over your head, what would you do?

Outside of this debate, I would also to give some advice to Asteria and Sybus and to other nations who would rather be quiet and isolated rather than be involved: don't. By removing yourself from the international community, by shunning it, you remove all of your ability to influence it and build better bonds with other nations.

The Federal Government will not pass it but the following states will:

Mainland Russia & Mongolia will have similar referendums soon when their elected bodies are chosen.*Some of these states recognize it for a temporary period of time and will revise it at each reelection which for most states is 10 years.

musashisamurai wrote:Outside of this debate, I would also to give some advice to Asteria and Sybus and to other nations who would rather be quiet and isolated rather than be involved: don't. By removing yourself from the international community, by shunning it, you remove all of your ability to influence it and build better bonds with other nations.

I think this is probably my cue -

Knowing that your planned actions would be seen as provocation, not defence (even if we allow for the mistrust your people might have for Sybus, given prior events), as a fellow member of the Ascension Pact, Colombia/PCG Terra urges Asteria to reconsider it's position and look to explore other alternatives.

At which point (as I'm not an expert on these issues), I'd like to throw the floor open to others to present said alternatives...

The enemies of my enemies are not necessarily my friend, but they may still be useful.