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In order to arrive at a meaningful conclusion, the terms need to be more precise.

What terms? I offered up various conflicting theories that I have heard multiple times as a catalyst for conversation.

Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia

What is the determination of failure or success? If there is a disparity between the performance of the action figures and the animated series, is this regarded as a failure or a success for the franchise?

Considering the franchises were based on toylines and neither NA or 2002's cartoons lasted longer than their toys, I'd say this is a moot point.

Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia

Is success limited to performance in the United States? Both the New Adventures of He-Man and the Mike Young Productions Masters of the Universe were a moderate success in the United States, but were notably more successful in the United Kingdom and Germany.

While people from other countries may have liked them, they were originally made for an American audience and neither continued in other countries after they ended their runs in the US.

Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia

Moreover, is the presumption that Masters of the Universe Classics is beneficial to the franchise sound? It could be argued that the dilution of the titular character, and the aggravation many have experienced with MattyCollector is hurtful to the franchise.

This isn't about MOTUC, this is about NA and 2002. It's too early to say if MOTUC is a success or a failure. It continues to sell out, but that could all end in a few months. It could also continue the sell outs into 2013. It's only been a year(unless you consider the preview toy that was King Grayskull).

What terms? I offered up various conflicting theories that I have heard multiple times as a catalyst for conversation.

Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia

What is the determination of failure or success?

If there is a disparity between the performance of the action figures and the animated series, is this regarded as a failure or a success for the franchise?

Is success limited to performance in the United States?

Moreover, is the presumption that Masters of the Universe Classics is beneficial to the franchise sound?

Originally Posted by Mr. Shokoti

Considering the franchises were based on toylines and neither NA or 2002's cartoons lasted longer than their toys, I'd say this is a moot point.

In both instances, the series was cancelled, because the line of action figures was cancelled. There is no need for a series to promote a line of merchandise that has been discontinued.

Originally Posted by Mr. Shokoti

While people from other countries may have liked them, they were originally made for an American audience and neither continued in other countries after they ended their runs in the US.

International sales account for a significant portion or revenue for Masters of the Universe. Figures such as Laser Power He-Man, Laser Light Skeletor, Tytus, Megator, Lizor, and Snake Armor He-Man, as well as playsets such as Nordor are European exclusives, many of which were released after their respective lines ceased in the United States.

Originally Posted by Mr. Shokoti

This isn't about MOTUC, this is about NA and 2002. It's too early to say if MOTUC is a success or a failure. It continues to sell out, but that could all end in a few months. It could also continue the sell outs into 2013. It's only been a year(unless you consider the preview toy that was King Grayskull).

If we are going to discuss the effects of subsequent iterations of Masters of the Universe on the franchise, then there is no reason to exclude Classics from the discussion.

In both instances, the series was cancelled, because the line of action figures was cancelled. There is no need for a series to promote a line of merchandise that has been discontinued.

You answered your own question didn't you? Why bring up the question of whether the cartoons or toys were the source of success when, like you said, the cartoons were cancelled because the toys were cancelled(although I'm not sure that that's 100% true since NA's toyline went for another 2 years after they stopped making cartoons)?

Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia

International sales account for a significant portion or revenue for Masters of the Universe. Figures such as Laser Power He-Man, Laser Light Skeletor, Tytus, Megator, Lizor, and Snake Armor He-Man, as well as playsets such as Nordor are European exclusives, many of which were released after their respective lines ceased in the United States.

They were toys that were already designed and sculpted for the US but were never released. They weren't made specifically for Europe. The same could be said of Mattel's Secret Wars Iceman, Electro, or Constrictor.

Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia

If we are going to discuss the effects of subsequent iterations of Masters of the Universe on the franchise, then there is no reason to exclude Classics from the discussion.

I'm talking about 2 toylines that ended. Whether they were successful or not is open to debate but their stories have been told. Why would I talk about a line that is only a year old? Since every toy has sold out, it's 100% successful so far, but I feel it's still too early to call MOTUC a complete success. If it ends tomorrow for some reason, it would be considered a failure since one year is not long for a toyline to last. Unless you get into how many toys are being made for each MOTUC figure vs the 2 lines that I created this discussion about(which is hard since Mattel is unwilling to give these numbers out), what is there really to say?

I feel you're making this more difficult than it actually is by over thinking it. I offered up a few general opinions and left the discussion open to other forum members and they contributed with their own opinions on the subject. Just say what your initial opinion is. There's no right, wrong, or set rules here.

I think both NA and 200X hurt the franchise at first, but are now actually helping it. We've never truly been given a reason why the original MOTU ended so abruptly. Sales of the original line went from 400 million to 7 million in just one year. What happened? Nobody knows for sure.

My guess would be that it went down in popularity when MATTEL ended the Filmation He-Man and She-Ra cartoons. I'm sure the thinking was that these cartoons could keep playing forever in syndication, but with new cartoons coming out for Tranformers and Thundercats, some stations stopped showing He-Man reruns to show the next big thing.

I think if they had continued to produce new cartoons, it would have kept the line going strong. Even if they only made a few new episodes a year just to feature new characters as they came out, it could have done the trick. Instead of ending the He-Man series, they should have produced 13 to 18 new episodes a year for as long as they made He-Man figures to show off the new toys.

NA was a fairly successful toy line that lasted, what, 2-3 years on the shelves? In that sense, it was a success in it's own right, and, since most folks don't even remember it outside the die-hards, I can't see that it had much of an effect on the property as a whole.

MOTU 2002, however, had a major impact with it's failure at retail. The toon never got a following, in large part because Cartoon Network had no interest in promoting it. But the big impact was the Smash Blade Horror, and the resulting problems the line ran into not even six months into its life. This is the main reason we all have the joy of battling the Red Screen of Doom every month for our figures: retailers aren't going to touch anything called MOTU right now without a major media tie-in behind it. Mattel's handling of 2002 (not the line itself, mind you; all reports were that sales were solid until the pegs got filled with funky blue He-Men and Mattel started having problems delivering the product to retailers) damaged the brand, and we can only hope that this new line captures enough attention to wipe away the sour taste of the Smash Blade in retailers mouth...

"I will use this power for all the good that can be done, to work for peace, to encourage virtue, and above all, to preserve life in all its forms..." Superman

I enjoy and am happy that both NA and 200x existed. And I have to agree with Scott on what he said above.

It does make you wonder, though. What things might have been like for MOTUC if 200x, and even NA, never existed. How would that effect the line's availabilty. Would there be a new cartoon? A movie? Would the toys be in the stores instead of online?

NA for as much as I didn't enjoy that idea in the least, it barely exists, of all the launches that is the one people have no clue it ever existed so I dont think you can place any blame on it. 2002 is abit better but when I sell them on craigslist the emails I get are completely clueless that a relaunch ever happened. It kinda goes with my philosophy about forget aiming it at kids with the same ole formula as it clearly is not getting the attention in this modern world of electronic toys. Go for a more controversial R rating animation for adult collectors on HBO or something. We could use another BTAS like evolution in toon land.

I don't think either NA or 2002 hurt the franchise, but their effects were very different.

The franchise was damaged in the first place. Pre-Filmation fans would argue that the cartoon caused the damage as it moved MOTU a long way from its origins. But commercially, Filmation did no damage at all - it probably extended the life of the line.

Things come to an end though, and by the time MOTU reached its end, there were over seventy figures, so over-saturation had definitely occurred. By the time the film came out and those last few figures appeared, MOTU had lost its way.

So when NA came along, it was an attempt to revive MOTU. Many felt its inherent fault was that it was completely unrelated to the original concept, and 'going barbarian' would have been a better move. So NA wasn't damaging as such - it was just a new idea that was only moderately successful among a small following. For me, it has no place in the MOTU canon.

2002 was a different story. It had its problems (too many variants and manga styling), but it was an attempt to revisit original ideas, so it had quite a lot of support. There were some good interpretations of the figures, and it certainly has a strong following today. So 2002 didn't damage the franchise either.

As far as their influence on the Classics goes, I think NA will only make a tiny contribution, whereas 2002 will have a stronger impact. That reflects the number of fans. Ultimately though, MOTUC is about bringing MOTU home, so those original ideas will make the biggest contribution of all.