#SpillSesh: Dating As A Gay Black Man

In my new interview series #SpillSesh, I aim to bring you stories and issues from the LGBTQ+ community that matter. No celebrities, no influencers, just real people discussing real issues in their lives. I hope that as these stories are read and shared, we can start impacting some serious change in our community. In our first #SpillSesh, we hear from TPG follower Brice (@celestialflute) and the difficulties he faces as a gay Black man when dating. The inspiration for this interview came from Brice commenting on one of my dating posts and how it didn’t represent his personal experience. I look forward to hearing from more of you for future #SpillSesh interviews!

Tell me a little about yourself. Where did you grow up? Where do you live now? What do you do for work?

I am a 28 year-old gay man. I identify as both an African and Native American. I was born in Oklahoma, but grew up in upstate New York. Currently I am a full time doctoral teaching assistant in Colorado.

Are you currently single? Do you typically date a lot, or are you looking for a LTR?

I am single. I am definitely looking for a LTR. I have dreamt since I was a young boy that one day I would find a partner and get married. I have gone on many dates. I guess that comes with the territory of being a gay man. I cannot say that I have “dated” a lot of men, which implies something serious. By something serious, I mean frequent communication, spending significant time with one another, introducing him to friends and or family, etc. I am always in search of a meaningful and beautiful connection. I am often discouraged when I find myself on many dates, mostly because the men I have encountered did not remain in my life for more than one to a few dates. I have a running joke with friends, if a man sticks around longer than two weeks, that’s really saying something – he’s a potential keeper!

How do you typically meet guys? Through other people/dating apps/bars/life?

I have not had many opportunities to meet men through friends or through school functions, parties, etc. I would be up for it, it just does not seem to be the way I have seen gay men meet too often…and frankly, that has never worked well for me. For whatever reason, I have only had success on dating apps. I think many would agree that dating apps are much easier, because the sting of rejection is less embarrassing.

In your opinion, what’s the most frustrating aspect of dating as a Black gay man?

My first fear is ALWAYS, will men dismiss me because of my color. I cannot even say rejection simply comes from one’s race alone. Being Black is not a race. And I guarantee that I will get shit for this, but I identify my color as brown, because THAT is my color. Contrary to many beliefs, African American people encompass the entire spectrum of skin color, so let’s get that straight and out in the open! Depending where your skin lies on the spectrum of light to dark, in many cases lighter to white skinned people are viewed as the most beautiful and dateable. I cannot speak for other races, but as an African American, we have been depicted in the worst of ways in movies, books, TV…you name it! Those stereotypes trickle to how people perceive us and expect us to act.

Another frustrating reoccurrence going on in the gay dating scene is the attraction to only thug-like men or very feminine men. That comes from the media, due to Hollywood preferring to cast black men as tough ripped thugs to the flaming queens we see on “Paris is Burning” or RuPaul. Thug men are wonderful and so are the queens, but I cannot help but question how much longer it will be before an African American man that does not identify as either will stop falling through the cracks of being socially accepted and or viewed as not dateable.

What is the most insulting thing you’ve been asked or told as a gay Black man?

Comments on a date or dating app:

Stupid Nigger

Never been pounded by a Nigger before.

Your color will be a problem at this university and in this town.

You’re making up that Black people are treated differently and discriminated against.

You’re only good for sex.

So tell me, are you just Black or what?

I see you have jungle fever (a comment to the guy I was seeing).

Outside the dating context:

There’s nothing wrong with you, except that you’re Black.

You know, I don’t think I could ever date a Black guy.

I don’t talk to Black people (from another gay Black man).

There’s only enough room for one blackie here (from another gay Black man).

You will get AIDS and die.

Your color is a curse.

I see many dating profiles of Black men that explicitly say “I am not your fetish.” Can you tell us how frequently this is an issue in your experience?

This has been solely my experience and the experience I have heard other African American men speak about. There is no data to my knowledge proving this to be true. I would also like to say I am not pointing any fingers, but only sharing what myself and others have faced: If men are attracted to Black men, often it is not because they truly like him. There is some kind exoticism they are trying to get out of their system. “You must have a huge BBC or huge ass or big lips, athletic, great in bed…” Black men are treated as though they are some Olympic event that needs to be conquered. Once the partner gets his feel, he drops the Black man in favor of someone that looks like himself, and who is also more apt to receive less criticism from friends and family. On a dating app, I would say 95% or more this has been my experience.

Do you think racism in the LGBT dating community varies geographically?

Answer: In America, I do not. It is everywhere you go. It’s just that in the larger cities there are more people, which offer a better chance to find a mate. The same hateful comments are everywhere. There are not enough accolades and or muscles an African American man can have to deter racism.

Do you think other races have certain expectations of dating Black men? What are some of these stereotypes?

Well, there are expectations of Black men. In my experience, the dominating hyper- masculinity type of person is valued most. Once again, We often are boxed in the category of “feminine like RuPaul or a thug.” Men who don’t fall within those two dynamics often find themselves swimming in confusion to why they are not accepted and valued. Take a look at TV, or perhaps a “flick” and see how African American men are depicted. This is no mystery.

I must say though, I have met some men who are open to getting to know me for me, regardless of my race. However, I still have much pain from the past for being dismissed for it alone. It is not something that one just overcomes. I’ve gone through extensive counseling because of the self-worthlessness rejection has caused me to feel. Multiple rejections really affect our mental state. We need to seek counseling. There was a study done some time ago comparing the similar levels trauma of gay men face to that of rape victims or war veterans etc. Heart breaking. There is a reason suicide is so prevalent.

If you had every man who has disrespected you when dating in an audience in front of you, what might you say to them?

Just reading this question makes me emotional. I’d break down and cry. I’d ask what could I have done better to be loved. I’d also ask why they found it difficult to open up and communicate exactly what they were feeling until it was too late. I would also feel extremely embarrassed to see all of my failures staring straight at me.

Coming out as gay to a family that did not support me was excruciatingly painful. Gathering enough courage to love myself and then approach the dating scene, only to be told over and again “Sorry you’re not good enough,” shattered me. Too many times I ended up in counseling or wanting to end my life because being a talented straight-A student, successful, very physically fit, attractive and kind was simply not good enough because of my color. “You’re such a wonderful person, but I cannot be romantically involved with you. We can be friends.” I’m sure every gay man can attest to how much the “friend-zoning” from a once potential lover crushes us to pieces.

Do you think Black men ever discriminate against other Black men in the gay dating scene?

Without a doubt! In my experience, Black men are so sick of being discriminated against that they want to “climb the totem poll,” if you will, by dating lighter skinned men, particularly white guys. It can be viewed as a “double negative” to see two Black men together…two Black GAY men together. Again, in my experience, some Black women tend to get upset because they feel like they are losing all of the good Black men (that’s another huge issue). I’ve seen first hand, some Black churches that pretty much push us away, even our families more often than not may push us away or put extreme pressures on us.

Some people assume that gay Black men have HIV and or AIDS because statistics say we are more susceptible due to our smaller sexual dating pool, and people for some reason have fear when they see a group of Black people. So YES, Black men discriminate heavily of one another because they don’t want to receive double the poor treatment they have gotten and are receiving on a DAILY basis. I would like to address that interracial couples receive criticism too. I love interracial couples. They are so beautiful to me, but in hearing some comments from strangers, I at one time had been made to feel that dating the same race is a problem and dating different race is also a problem.

What would be your ideal way of being approached on a dating app? What about in person at a bar or coffee shop?

A kind gesture, really. “Hello, how are you?” A smile. Would you believe there are men who block me because I text with complete sentences? Geez!

At a coffee shop? – Assuming we had already met on an app, a hello, smile and perhaps a hug would be lovely. Being approached without prior conversation is a rarity because there is a fear of rejection or even the fear of approaching and assuming a straight man is gay.

What are your ideal qualities in your perfect mate?

I don’t believe in perfection. Some ideal qualities would be: loyalty to me, a love for laughter and smiling, respectful and loving to his family, open-minded, success- driven, educated, a desire to travel and effort to be healthy and physically fit. A man that knows he and I are not perfect, but together we will work on becoming the best possible us that we can be. I’d love that.

Do you think there’s a solution to racism in the LGBT dating scene? What are 1-2 things everyone can be doing that can help out?

I do not. Hell, we have PrEP and in MANY cases that has only encouraged men to be riskier than ever under the umbrella that “I’m on PrEP, so you’re safe…” Ignorance is real.

Ways to help?

Learn your gay history! Get educated on the milestones LGBT people fought and gave their lives to achieve. We as a whole can be so uneducated. Have we not suffered enough? Sex is easy. Education demands responsibility! Perhaps if more gay men knew their history, they could better empathize with the struggles gay minorities face and treat us with more kindness.

Do not fall into the “that’s just my preference” stereotype men have become accustomed to. Preferences are fine, hatred and ignorance are not. Ask yourself why you have a preference. Just in my experience, the older men get, the less sexual preferences they tend to have. Why? Perhaps a large part of the gay community is consumed with vanity, where physical attractiveness is most important. When a man gets older, somehow a race, image and career fixation turns into needing true love. It could be that as he ages, his looks deteriorate and less options for mating are available. My question to men are, do you love the image of a guy that makes you look perfect or do you love the fact that you both can fully enrich one another’s lives? Think about it!

Any Additional Thoughts?:

I cannot stress how important it is to have a family that loves and supports you. So many Black families don’t support their gay sons and daughters. Unfortunately, in my experience and the experiences I have heard from other minorities, the gay community has not been much better, if better at all. I’ve even worked for LGBT inclusion groups and was STILL ignored and or felt shunned. What’s there to live for if no one gives a fuck about you? We all need a strong support system. If you cannot find it in your family, make true friends that love and care for you. I would not be on this Earth today without my loving friends who are the best family I have ever had. You know who you are!

Black men are not victims, it annoys me when the narrative on black men dating falls into this trap of poor me, poor us. All gay men are quite ridiculous and dating is hard for everyone, learn to love yourselves people and have an open mind when it comes to partner choice is what i’d say to everyone

Thank you for your comments. You are the very reason these topics need to be addressed further. If you would like to have a conversation about what I and so many other gay African Americans deal with everyday, I suggest we speak. Thank you. ✌🏾❤️

I am a 58 year old African American who came out at 18. I have 40 years of experience being out in Los Angeles, the Bay Area and in NYC. I experienced far less discrimination in the gay community in the 80s and 90s than I do now. I have tried to put my finger on why that is.

Apps and other vehicles of gay social media, in my opinion, have done a great deal of aesthetic grooming, promoting through Instagram and porn sites a nearly universal, if painfully narrow, taste for a very predictable white male ideal, be he the ideal bear, the ideal bodybuilder, the ideal daddy, or the ideal twink. Perusing the myriad of gay oriented Instagram accounts where male beauty is not only celebrated but also more or less worshipped, as a person of color, and particularly as an African American or an Asian, one clearly sees how undervalued we are in the eyes of your gay peers. We’re nowhere to be seen. Only the occasional token black male is featured and when he is, he is one type. There is a range of African American looks from blond haired and blue eyed to dark as black coffee, but it seems that only the dark as black coffee phenotype is marginally interesting within the gay aesthetic and, I suspect, it is only included as a bone thrown to fetishists. Where I do see black men most represented in gay social media is in the realm of catty, comical, trashy memes and drag, which together amount to black gay cyber-minstrelsy.

I have a racially ambiguous look (for some) and it is always telling to me how responses to me change when I say that I am not Egyptian or Indian or Brazilian, as assumed, but African American. One guy approached me and made a flirtatious game out of guessing what my Latin American nationality was. He asked if I was Cuban, and I said no. He asked if I was Puerto Rican, and I said no. When he exhausted his list of potential ‘exotic’ ethnicities he finally said, “Okay, I give up. What are you?” I answered, “I’m African American.” He looked disappointed and burped out his judgment: “Oh. I’m not into black guys.” And just like that he walked away. As long as I was Latino, even an Afro-Latino, he was attracted to me. When he learned that I was not Latino but African American he walked away. Nothing about me had changed but his perception of me. Seeing me from across the room was enough to draw him to me and compel him to speak up. But saying “I’m African American” to him was enough to kill his attraction and completely disinterest him in pursuing further conversation with me.

There’s another side of how my ambiguous look is perceived, however. A friend had a guest from Italy who had expressed an strong desire to meet a black guy. My friend thought his Italian guest might like to meet me. We met at a party. The Italian was polite upon meeting but said no more to me than hello and walked away. Another friend who knew that the Italian was looking to meet a black guy mused, “Well, come on. When someone says they want to meet a black guy, they’re not talking about you!”

One college POC “friend” who grew up picking lettuce among other undocumented farmworkers in Central California actually said to me, “You’re really good looking, but I bet your grandfather looked like a gorilla, didn’t he?”

The ugly list of my experiences like this in the gay community could fill volumes. I will leave you with this, which speaks to Brice’s reflection on aging: I was at the Sunday Beer Bust at the Faultline here in Los Angeles. I was in my mid-40s and in my physical prime. An aging white man crossed paths with me as we squeezed between presses of carousing men. As he approached me our eyes met and he stared unabashedly at me. He said, “You know, you’re easily the best looking man in this place, but when I was young I never would’ve even looked at you.”

I’ve never forgotten those words. They spoke volumes about this subject.

You cannot truthfully say black men are not victims without standing in their shoes. “Victims” is probably not the best word at any rate. Subjected to, exposed to, receivers of … perhaps.