I have searched around this forum and havent really found something that has hit on what I am looking for. Oh and hi, this is my first post

Ok so I got a used P-22S (http://www.bakerspride.com/specs/Hearthbake/Hearthbake_P22S_BL.pdf) without the stones (and it is not brick lined either). I need to get some stones to use in it. I cook a think crispy crusted chicago style pizza, occasionally with raw sausage (oh so good to have that sausage fat render into the sauce mmm). I need a good even heat on the entire crust as it is topped almost to the edge, and cut into squares so I need to have the crust in the middle as crispy and crackery as the edges get.

I have been cooking with williams & sonoma and similar stones in standard ovens, 8-10 minute cook times. I would love to reduce cook times by a little bit, but that isnt my sole purpose. I just want to make sure that I can get something that would get that result. If it is steel so be it, if it is mexican tiles, thats great too. I also would prefer not to spend as much on the stones as I did on the oven haha!

scott123

Pat, you probably already know this, but don't pay huge bucks to get replacement stones from Baker's Pride. Their markup on cordierite is reprehensible.

With an oven that goes to 680 f, and, from what I can tell only has one thermostat, steel is not your answer. In a single thermostat scenario, top and bottom heat are pretty much proportional, so you don't want to use a material that will reduce the bottom baking time. You could, in theory, give the top heat a boost by building some sort of frame to lift the steel decks closer to the ceiling element, but, since you're relatively happy with your current baking times, I think that would be more trouble than it's worth.

The first thing you want to do is measure your existing stones. The literature says the decks are 20.75" x 20.75" with a height of 3.25, but I'm certain that the actual stones are not that thick. Once you get the exact stone thickness, start calling around to local ceramic suppliers to see if they have something close in a cordierite kiln shelf. That will be the closest match to what you have now at the most sensible price.

A single thermostat doesn't give you many options.

Basically, if the top of the pizza is baking too quickly in your target time frame, you'll want a more conductive and/or thicker stone. Otherwise, if the bottom is baking too quickly, you'll want a less conductive and/or thinner stone and/or higher positioning of the stone in the oven.

Does the current stone sit on a flat metal shelf or does it sit on supports? If it's on a complete shelf, then sure, you can play around with quarry tiles. With the lower conductivity of the tiles, you're really going to have to bump up the thermostat, which, in turn will greatly favor top browning, but that might not be a bad thing.

Pat;You might look at some unglazed floor tiles as an option for the deck material. It doesn't have to be a single piece, just set them in place and they will work just fine. Since you're making a Chicago thin crust pizza, you will want to bake on a disk or screen, and not right on the deck any ways. Look for a baking time of about 30-minutes at 475F. Remember, a Chicago style thin crust is only crispy around the outer edges, that is why those pieces go first when the pizza is brought to the table. The remainder of the pieces are soft and foldable, but Ohhhhh, so good!Lastly, remember to party cut the pizza, never wedge cut it.Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor (An ex south-sider from the "Windy City")

@Norma - I guess I didnt look deep enough, those links are very helpful

@Scott - There are no stones in the oven, the cavity for each deck is 20.75 x 20.75 x 3.25 (I am going to try to attach a pic I took). The LAST place I will be getting stones from is Bakers Pride. I have 2 stones enroute via Amazon.com that are the D shaped stones for a grill, gonna use them for the party I am cooking for on Saturday. I know they will 'work' but I have them slated for another project. My Kettle Cart (will post build pics later). But anyways, yes there are shelves, so I am probably going to go the quarry tiles route. Being in SoCal they are popular and I should have some good choices. And I will make sure not to get glazed tiles. However since I dont use a disc or screen I will need to make sure they are flat so they can sit flush. I may have to do some juggling if one of the decks cooks hotter than the other, pizza swapping is fun

@Tom - Wow I have the legend of dough replying to my first post! I am curious though, I have never seen Chicago style thin cooked on anything but the deck floor, I use Corn Meal to slide it off my peel and I can almost pick it up with tongs it gets so crackery. My center pieces do get crispy too, but not as much as the edges. And I do tend to cook at about 480-500 but it never takes more than about 10 minutes. And of course, wedge cuts are for New Yorkers!

scott123

Pat, perhaps the photo is playing tricks on me, but it looks like the shelf has a bit of a bow. If that's the case, then quarry tiles might not work- unless you can get an 18" square tile. If the quarry tiles slant towards the center, even a little bit, your toppings will have a tendency to pool in the middle of the pizza.

The cordierite is a bit on the porous side and 3/4" is usually too thin for home ovens, but, for an oven that hits 680 f, it should be perfect- and the price is right. As I said earlier, though, call around and see if you can find it locally so you can avoid shipping charges.

Pat;You New Yorkers are just in love with corn meal. LOL Because they use reel type ovens so much in Chicago, they like to use some type of carrier under the pizza, screen or disk to prevent getting all that corn meal into the oven. Smaller stores with deck ovens certainly do bake right on the deck, or bake on a piece of parchment paper (not my favorite). But those true, Chicago style deep-dish pizzas are baked in a 2-inch deep pan. As for the long baking times, in Chicago, it is common to wait 45 to 60-minutes or more.Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Pat, perhaps the photo is playing tricks on me, but it looks like the shelf has a bit of a bow. If that's the case, then quarry tiles might not work- unless you can get an 18" square tile. If the quarry tiles slant towards the center, even a little bit, your toppings will have a tendency to pool in the middle of the pizza.

The cordierite is a bit on the porous side and 3/4" is usually too thin for home ovens, but, for an oven that hits 680 f, it should be perfect- and the price is right. As I said earlier, though, call around and see if you can find it locally so you can avoid shipping charges.

I used Old Stone Oven "D" shaped stones that I got for my Kettle Pizza Project this last weekend, they worked pretty good, but I ended up with a new issue, oven losing heat. Gonna check out the forums for par baking ideas.

Also, Axner appears to have a location in City of Industry CA that I may have to check out, but gonna see if i can get an 18" square tile first. and yes that bow is there, and actually makes it a bit difficult to get a pizza in the bottom deck.

Pat;You New Yorkers are just in love with corn meal. LOL Because they use reel type ovens so much in Chicago, they like to use some type of carrier under the pizza, screen or disk to prevent getting all that corn meal into the oven. Smaller stores with deck ovens certainly do bake right on the deck, or bake on a piece of parchment paper (not my favorite). But those true, Chicago style deep-dish pizzas are baked in a 2-inch deep pan. As for the long baking times, in Chicago, it is common to wait 45 to 60-minutes or more.Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Dough Dr.-

I am actually from Chicago, but I prefer the corn meal over bread crumbs or flour. Never have made a Chicago Style Deep Dish, I am a thin crust fanatic! I usually cook my thin crust pizzas, no disk, screen or paper, in 8-10 mins.

Pat, please don't par bake. Even with a super thin crust, your cheese will never bubble/melt right with a par baked crust.

Have you used this oven before? Did it have heat maintaining issues previously?

Aren't there heating elements underneath the top deck? Are they impacted by the bow?

I will be looking at that too.

I am at a loss for what to do for this weekend though.

And yeah, there are some issues with this oven, #1 issue is that it has a 110 plug on it when it really needs to be a 220 plug. I got it from a used equipment dealer, I should have just walked away, but got all starry eyed and thought I could make it work...

My problem with running it on 220 is that a) I would have to hope my client sites had a 220 outlet (like a electric dryer) and b) I dont have a generator. It is something of a quandry. I wish I had the scratch to do something like I have seen on here with a sweet WFO on a trailer and a nice refrigerated make line table, but I dont.

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scott123

Wait a sec, Pat, someone took off the 220 V plug that came with this oven and replaced with a 110 V plug? And you're hoping to take this thing on the road? Are you planning on taking an electrician with you?

I don't know, Pat. I'm about as frugal and DIY as you can possibly get, but the prospect of either running this at 110 or jerry rigging something on site to get it up to 220 sounds incredibly daunting. Even the dryer idea might not be all that straightforward because of the different plug types. I just walked over to my dryer and found a nema 10 plug, but am reading that most dryers these days are nema 14. Can one even, with an adapter, plug a 6-20P plug (that this oven should be sporting) into a 14-30 outlet?

Pat,I have the Bakers pride P18s which is 110v. It came with cordierite and I did not like it. I called fibrement and they made a dual 1/2" inch stone package for this model. I think it was about $80. It works great for me. Pefrect brown crisp bottom at 650deg.

Regarding the 220. Not getting into the electrical formula the basic jist is this. If you cut the voltage in half you get about 1/4 of the wattage, and heat. You can purchase any 220 plug with the proper amp rating to put on the end. As long as the voltage and amperage ratings match, the unit is safe. Sometimes local jurisdictions can have trouble with UL listings wen you do this, but at least it will not start a fire.

I just picked up a p18 myself and I have one broken stone in it. If I go with that "Cordierite Shelf - 20"x20"x3/4" Square" from link above, can I cut it to fit the shelf?, otherwise I will look locally for the unglazed floor tiles. I'm in the Bay Area.

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scott123

Franny, the Axner kiln shelf that I recommended earlier was before Bob chimed in that he had the P18 and seemed happy with Fibrament stones. I've talked extensively with Bob about his oven, and the bottom line seems to be that the single thermostat makes it very difficult to find the stone material and thickness that will consistently give you great results. 3/4" cordierite kiln shelves are normally my go to pizza stones for NY style in any electric oven that exceeds 600 deg., but your oven is in a completely separate class Just to complicate things a bit more, based on your profile listing Bobby G's as your favorite pizzeria, I think you and Bob are striving toward slightly different end products (he prefers more color). In words, not only can I not recommend the Axner, at this point, but I also might not recommend getting what Bob has.

Your P18 came with two stones, so one stone should still be intact, correct? Get a good recipe and a good flour, crank the oven up and see what that stone can do. Get an infrared thermometer and take plenty of temperature readings. Do two pizzas back to back and see how it recovers. Based upon those results, you'll be able to see if the top is baking faster or slower, which, in turn, will help you narrow in on the best stone for your particular needs.

Hi Scott, Yes I like Bobby G's, but that is not necessarily what I try and make. I'm not even using the same flour. I make all kinds though. I use caputo when I make it on the grill. Otherwise for my everyday I use a mix KABF & KAAP. I've been making them in my 36" wolf with 2 old stone pizza stones in there and use the convection sometimes. I like crispy. This is just a toy I picked up. I make sicilian a lot, so I figured it at least would be great for heating that up, ala "golden Boy" pizza. I had a little dough and cranked out this in it last night. Just to make sure the thing worked, 'cause I could have taken it back... I have a place down the street that has the fire brick, I got the thicker ones for my grill, so will go see if they have some 3/4

scott123

Franny, this oven, with the right stone, can make a NY style pie that will massacre Bobby G's, Caputo on the grill and the 2 old stone Wolf pies. Having it around just to 'warm up Sicilian,' is heresy, imo It's like owning a Ferrari, but leaving it in the garage. As far as deck ovens go, I think these are somewhat cheaply made, but any oven that can bake a 16" pizza at 650 deg is worth it's weight in gold. Your Wolf can't hit 650, and, while the grill most likely can, I highly doubt it can handle a 16" pie.

It's your oven, so you can do with it as you please- I'm just telling you that you have a piece of equipment there that can do majestic things with, if you approach it the right way.

Fire brick, from what I understand, only comes in 2.25 inch bricks and 1.125 inch 'splits.' I'm not sure splits would be right for this oven. Splits will take way too long to preheat and their weight will most likely stress those shelf supports. If you really do want to just 'play' with this oven, then go with the 3/4" kiln shelves- I would suggest that you find a ceramic supplier near you, so you don't have to pay exorbitant shipping. Axner's stone is $30, but I think the shipping comes to $20 more. Bear in mind, the 3/4" stone will give you completely different results than the existing 1/2" stone, so, if you do ever start using this oven for real entertaining, I don't think you'll be able to bake multiple pies at the same time using the two different stones.

Thanks! Good to know, now I'm stoked! As to an original question I had, Can these stones be cut to fit? Also, for my original pie, I didn't have it up all the way. Should I crank it up? My next pies will be bigger and thinner. I usually start on a screen (for the bigger ones), then take it off right onto stone. I guess I'm partial to a higher hydration and it makes it less stressful, as I'm not worrying about it sticking to the peel.

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scott123

Franny, I can give you plenty of recommendations as to how to get the best possible pizza out of that oven, but, before I do, I want to make sure that you like NY style pizza. Do you get into San Francisco much? Try swinging by

Pizzeria Avellino2769 Lombard StreetSan Francisco, CA 94123-2411

It's not the best NY style slice in the country, but, for SF, it's a pretty solid product. With your oven you should be able to do better. If you taste that and go 'wow, I want to make something like this but better,' then we go to work. If, on the other hand, you go 'meh,' no harm, no foul and I've saved a few keystrokes

And, to answer your original question, yes, cordierite can be cut. Cutting cordierite, could, in theory, weaken the cut side and make it a bit more susceptible to the effects of thermal shock, but, cordierite is very sturdy stuff, so I think cutting it will be fine. Just make sure you (or whoever is cutting it) uses a diamond blade and goes slow.