They're both free agents after the season. Their respective contract negotiations had just as much to do with them playing as their sense of team spirit. Hartline needs to add some more catches and yards in order to help his negotiations. Starks needs a few more tackles and possibly a sack to help his. The last two weeks are big for all of our free agents (Bush, Hartline, Fasano, Smith, Starks). This team is in the middle of an overhaul. If they want to stick around and get paid, they'd better play.

Starks has been nothing but consistent since 2004, he did not need 1 game... Hartline had plenty of attention this year, did not need to play either...

While I could see the question if it was a meaningless game, at kick off they needed to win in order to have a shot at the post season so I think they both wanted to win...

Have a feeling as a team they want another win this week too..

And R.S. that sig pic is killing me

Agreed. Starks and Hartline have little to prove. Hartline has been a solid contributor since he came to Miami and simply never got the targets he deserved. He delivered in a big way this year. Starks has also been a solid performer and has been a rock for our defensive line.

_________________Philbin's countenance exudes confidence!1984 was so long ago...Will there ever be another rainbow?

They're both free agents after the season. Their respective contract negotiations had just as much to do with them playing as their sense of team spirit.

I'm sorry but that is just a pile of skeptical horse dung.

Randy Starks mother died, have a little more respect. Some people grieve. Other players want to be around their teammates during such a time and play through their mourning.

If Hartline sits out with a back injury, that works against him in contract negotiations. If he were locked into a long term deal, he'd likely have sat out at least a week in order to let things heal. Whether you want to believe it or not.

As for Starks, why would he choose his team over his family??? I agree that the man has every right to greive. That is a huge loss. But why on earth would he play??? I would understand him playing to honor his mother. But because he doesn't want to let his teammates down??? That just doesn't sound right.

If Hartline sits out with a back injury, that works against him in contract negotiations. If he were locked into a long term deal, he'd likely have sat out at least a week in order to let things heal. Whether you want to believe it or not.

As for Starks, why would he choose his team over his family??? I agree that the man has every right to greive. That is a huge loss. But why on earth would he play??? I would understand him playing to honor his mother. But because he doesn't want to let his teammates down??? That just doesn't sound right.

Riiiiiiiight.

It couldn't possibly be that in Hartline's case the team BADLY needed him due to the injury to Bess and the fact that the rest of the unit features players with hardly any experience .... one of whom they just signed about a week ago. Do you know exactly what was wrong with Hartline and his threshold for pain? Course you don't. You also don't know whether he'd play if he was still under contract for next year.

In Stark's case it's not the first time a player/coach has shown up to play a game after a family member passing. That one stupid game is not going to affect his contract negotiations either. The guy's play is already known around the league being the veteran that he is. Talk about judgmental though ..... assuming the guy is all about the contract instead of fitting into your paradigm of how/where to grieve. LMFAO .... they had the funeral, he saw his family and then when it was over he showed up for work, like a lot of people do.

If Hartline sits out with a back injury, that works against him in contract negotiations. If he were locked into a long term deal, he'd likely have sat out at least a week in order to let things heal. Whether you want to believe it or not.

As for Starks, why would he choose his team over his family??? I agree that the man has every right to greive. That is a huge loss. But why on earth would he play??? I would understand him playing to honor his mother. But because he doesn't want to let his teammates down??? That just doesn't sound right.

Riiiiiiiight.

It couldn't possibly be that in Hartline's case the team BADLY needed him due to the injury to Bess and the fact that the rest of the unit features players with hardly any experience .... one of whom they just signed about a week ago. Do you know exactly what was wrong with Hartline and his threshold for pain? Course you don't. You also don't know whether he'd play if he was still under contract for next year.

In Stark's case it's not the first time a player/coach has shown up to play a game after a family member passing. That one stupid game is not going to affect his contract negotiations either. The guy's play is already known around the league being the veteran that he is. Talk about judgmental though ..... assuming the guy is all about the contract instead of fitting into your paradigm of how/where to grieve. LMFAO .... they had the funeral, he saw his family and then when it was over he showed up for work, like a lot of people do.

You can think what you want, but everyone knows that if you miss games in the NFL you risk being replaced or losing out on money the next time you go to negotiate a contract. It's the nature of the beast. You hear guys say it all the time, it's a business.

I agree with Rock on this one, especially in regards to Randy Starks. He been a big part of the reason why the Dolphins have been so stout against the run during his time in Miami, and to be able to get interior pass rush from a DT is a rare thing. Randy gives Miami that.

You can think what you want, but everyone knows that if you miss games in the NFL you risk being replaced or losing out on money the next time you go to negotiate a contract. It's the nature of the beast. You hear guys say it all the time, it's a business.

1 game? LOL

You don't even work in the "business" so you're not even qualified to speculate on how those negotiations work.

You can think what you want, but everyone knows that if you miss games in the NFL you risk being replaced or losing out on money the next time you go to negotiate a contract. It's the nature of the beast. You hear guys say it all the time, it's a business.

1 game? LOL

You don't even work in the "business" so you're not even qualified to speculate on how those negotiations work.

And you are qualified? I can speculate all I want. I'm a fan. I read and watch the news just like everyone else who isn't on the football team. This type of stuff is well documented. You can read or hear about it any time you like. I don't need to be an NFL employee to understand it.

And you are qualified? I can speculate all I want. I'm a fan. I read and watch the news just like everyone else who isn't on the football team. This type of stuff is well documented. You can read or hear about it any time you like. I don't need to be an NFL employee to understand it.

I'm not the one speculating that a guy stepping up and playing thru an injury for team short on WR's is actually using it as a contract ploy.

You keep telling yourself that you understand exactly what goes on in NFL contract negotiations. Your supposed experience from reading internet articles is so generalized it's not even funny.

You can think what you want, but everyone knows that if you miss games in the NFL you risk being replaced or losing out on money the next time you go to negotiate a contract. It's the nature of the beast. You hear guys say it all the time, it's a business.

So what your saying is every player in the NFL that has missed a game ended up getting a smaller contract?

You can think what you want, but everyone knows that if you miss games in the NFL you risk being replaced or losing out on money the next time you go to negotiate a contract. It's the nature of the beast. You hear guys say it all the time, it's a business.

So what your saying is every player in the NFL that has missed a game ended up getting a smaller contract?

I doubt that is 100% accurate....

When you put it in those terms, no it isn't accurate. But when you consider it in the context that I presented it in, yes it does. I never said that a player missing a game or two in the middle of his multi-year contract had the same impact as a player missing a game or two during crunch time at the end of his contract.

Players on the last year of their contract can have their contract negotiations affected by missing games. Whether you think it or not, Hartline needed to play the last two weeks. Because he has a lot to gain by playing them. Playing does several things for him. One, it proves he can play through pain. That is a great selling point for him. Two, it adds to his already nice season numbers. 1,000 yards is great, but 1,200 yards is excellent.

When you put it in those terms, no it isn't accurate. But when you consider it in the context that I presented it in, yes it does. I never said that a player missing a game or two in the middle of his multi-year contract had the same impact as a player missing a game or two during crunch time at the end of his contract.

Players on the last year of their contract can have their contract negotiations affected by missing games. Whether you think it or not, Hartline needed to play the last two weeks. Because he has a lot to gain by playing them. Playing does several things for him. One, it proves he can play through pain. That is a great selling point for him. Two, it adds to his already nice season numbers. 1,000 yards is great, but 1,200 yards is excellent.

Hartline's never "played through pain" before?

1,200 yards is "excellent"? Suddenly all those non-touchdowns you were moaning about don't matter anymore right?

And you are qualified? I can speculate all I want. I'm a fan. I read and watch the news just like everyone else who isn't on the football team. This type of stuff is well documented. You can read or hear about it any time you like. I don't need to be an NFL employee to understand it.

I'm not the one speculating that a guy stepping up and playing thru an injury for team short on WR's is actually using it as a contract ploy.

You keep telling yourself that you understand exactly what goes on in NFL contract negotiations. Your supposed experience from reading internet articles is so generalized it's not even funny.

Playing through injuries is a hell of a selling point. Not only that, but Hartline is trying to prove he's a starting caliber #1 or #2 guy. He needed to play the last two games because he has a lot to gain by playing in them. 1,000 yards is great, but 1,200 is excellent. If Hartline has one more really good game, it would cement his stock going into the offseason.

If you want proof that injuries during contract years change things, just look at Bess and Hartline. Both have similar injuries. One who is in the middle of his contract is taking time off to heal. The other is playing through it. While I can't say for certain that Bess would have played if he were in a contract year. I heavily suspect he would if he was able to.

When you put it in those terms, no it isn't accurate. But when you consider it in the context that I presented it in, yes it does. I never said that a player missing a game or two in the middle of his multi-year contract had the same impact as a player missing a game or two during crunch time at the end of his contract.

Players on the last year of their contract can have their contract negotiations affected by missing games. Whether you think it or not, Hartline needed to play the last two weeks. Because he has a lot to gain by playing them. Playing does several things for him. One, it proves he can play through pain. That is a great selling point for him. Two, it adds to his already nice season numbers. 1,000 yards is great, but 1,200 yards is excellent.

Hartline's never "played through pain" before?

1,200 yards is "excellent"? Suddenly all those non-touchdowns you were moaning about don't matter anymore right?

This is getting hilarious.

The man sat out the majority of training camp and preseason. But the second the regular season started he was out there ready to go. As for 1,200 yards, 1,200 yards is excellent production. 1 touchdown from a starting receiver is pathetic production. Hartline has both good and bad that come along with his game. He's a great possession guy, but he lacks playmaking ability and explosiveness to his game that hurt him in the TD department.

Hartline isn't suddenly going to turn into a touchdown machine over night. But he can continue to do what he's done the best this year, which is generate yards. A 1,200 yard season would put him up among the best in the NFL in terms of yardage. That would be a nice selling point for him.

Like I said, he'll be able to cement his status if he has a good game against New England. 1,000 yards vs 1,200 yards is a big difference. That could translate to $$$ for Hartline.

1,200 yards is excellent. 1 touchdown is pathetic. Hartline has both good and bad that come along with his game. He's a great possession guy, but he lacks playmaking ability and explosiveness to his game that hurt him in the TD department.

Hartline isn't suddenly going to turn into a touchdown machine over night. But he can continue to do what he's done the best this year, which is generate yards. A 1,200 yard season would put him up among the best in the NFL in terms of yardage. That would be a nice selling point for him.

Like I said, he'll be able to cement his status if he has a good game against New England. 1,000 yards vs 1,200 yards is a big difference. That could translate to $$$ for Hartline.

You said 1,200 yards in the vain as though it's excellent as in "excellent" season. How would gaining another 200 yards matter, when apparently judging by your comments earlier this season TD's matter far more? Was unlikely he would get 200 yards anyways, based on his season average of 67.6 yards/g. BTW he's ranked #15 in yardage, not "among the best".

Regardless, your comments are naive because playing through injuries runs the risk of further complicating those injuries. He could've very well gone out there and hurt himself even more and wouldn't that affect his value? ..... I mean since you're a negotiator and all.

1,200 yards is excellent. 1 touchdown is pathetic. Hartline has both good and bad that come along with his game. He's a great possession guy, but he lacks playmaking ability and explosiveness to his game that hurt him in the TD department.

Hartline isn't suddenly going to turn into a touchdown machine over night. But he can continue to do what he's done the best this year, which is generate yards. A 1,200 yard season would put him up among the best in the NFL in terms of yardage. That would be a nice selling point for him.

Like I said, he'll be able to cement his status if he has a good game against New England. 1,000 yards vs 1,200 yards is a big difference. That could translate to $$$ for Hartline.

You said 1,200 yards in the vain as though it's excellent as in "excellent" season. How would gaining another 200 yards matter, when apparently judging by your comments earlier this season TD's matter far more? Was unlikely he would get 200 yards anyways, based on his season average of 67.6 yards/g. BTW he's ranked #15 in yardage, not "among the best".

Regardless, your comments are naive because playing through injuries runs the risk of further complicating those injuries. He could've very well gone out there and hurt himself even more and wouldn't that affect his value? ..... I mean since you're a negotiator and all.

Unlikely he'd get 200 yards??? Bess is out. Hartline is the only legit target Tannehill has right now. He's his go to guy. I don't think it's outlandish for him to get 200 yards in two games. He'd have gotten 130 just by doing his average. He had over 200 in one game this year. I don't think him having two strong games to finish the season is too much to ask.

As for Hartline's season. In my opinion if Hartline had 5-6 touchdowns, I would consider that to be an excellent season and I think that his value would be significantly higher. But the fact that he only has one is what's holding him back. Also, just because he's ranked 15th in yardage, doesn't mean he isn't having an excellent season. Very few Dolphins receivers have had that many yards throughout the teams history. Brandon Marshall made the Pro Bowl last year with 1,214 yards and 6 touchdowns. 1,200 yards is excellent in my opinion. Name one crappy receiver that has had 1,200 yards.

Unlikely he'd get 200 yards??? Bess is out. Hartline is the only legit target Tannehill has right now. He's his go to guy. I don't think it's outlandish for him to get 200 yards in two games. He'd have gotten 130 just by doing his average. He had over 200 in one game this year. I don't think him having two strong games to finish the season is too much to ask.

..... So with Bess out and nobody else on that receiving core that's worthy of drawing significant coverage away from Hartline, you expect him to explode for for 200 yards in two games, one of which vs. the Patriots WHILE playing through an injured back? OK buddy. LOL

A quote from you a couple of weeks ago when Hartline returned to practice to highlight my point .....

"Thank god, things were getting pretty ugly pretty quick. Our wideout group is bad enough. Take Bess out of the mix and it's even worse. Take away Hartline and it's downright ugly. I was afraid we were going to have to call up someone from the practice squad." -WKLOIBER13

Quote:

As for Hartline's season. In my opinion if Hartline had 5-6 touchdowns, I would consider that to be an excellent season and I think that his value would be significantly higher. But the fact that he only has one is what's holding him back. Also, just because he's ranked 15th in yardage, doesn't mean he isn't having an excellent season. Very few Dolphins receivers have had that many yards throughout the teams history. Brandon Marshall made the Pro Bowl last year with 1,214 yards and 6 touchdowns. 1,200 yards is excellent in my opinion. Name one crappy receiver that has had 1,200 yards.

No, no, no .... see you're doing it again. Can't even keep your own argument straight. At first you said 1,200 yards made it an excellent season, then you turn around and say that IF he had 5-6 TD's that would make it so. You then switch it up for a third time and say just because he's ranked #15 in yards doesn't mean it isn't an excellent season. Let's just go with the "he's having an excellent season" campaign since you can't make up your mind. If that's the case, then the Dolphins front office brass would recognize this too right? Why risk your commodity injuring himself further if you already know his level of play is up to excellent status?

I can name 6 more Dolphins WR's that have had seasons worthy of Hartline's yardage or better .... 3 of whom also topped the 1,200 yardage mark.

You calling Hartline's year excellent is still so freakin' ironic due to all the campaigning you've been doing for upgrading the position.

Wait a minute ..... on December 17th you said:

Wkloiber13 wrote:

While he's having a good season, he's not having a great season. I think the Dolphins should really point out that the kid only has one touchdown this year, and hasn't had more than one touchdown a season since 2009, his rookie year. Yards are nice, and his contract should reflect that he's a quality possession receiver, but an elite receiver he is most definitely not.http://www.phinfeverforums.com/forums/v ... 80&p=99040

Unlikely he'd get 200 yards??? Bess is out. Hartline is the only legit target Tannehill has right now. He's his go to guy. I don't think it's outlandish for him to get 200 yards in two games. He'd have gotten 130 just by doing his average. He had over 200 in one game this year. I don't think him having two strong games to finish the season is too much to ask.

..... So with Bess out and nobody else on that receiving core that's worthy of drawing significant coverage away from Hartline, you expect him to explode for for 200 yards in two games, one of which vs. the Patriots WHILE playing through an injured back? OK buddy. LOL

A quote from you a couple of weeks ago when Hartline returned to practice to highlight my point .....

"Thank god, things were getting pretty ugly pretty quick. Our wideout group is bad enough. Take Bess out of the mix and it's even worse. Take away Hartline and it's downright ugly. I was afraid we were going to have to call up someone from the practice squad." -WKLOIBER13

Quote:

As for Hartline's season. In my opinion if Hartline had 5-6 touchdowns, I would consider that to be an excellent season and I think that his value would be significantly higher. But the fact that he only has one is what's holding him back. Also, just because he's ranked 15th in yardage, doesn't mean he isn't having an excellent season. Very few Dolphins receivers have had that many yards throughout the teams history. Brandon Marshall made the Pro Bowl last year with 1,214 yards and 6 touchdowns. 1,200 yards is excellent in my opinion. Name one crappy receiver that has had 1,200 yards.

No, no, no .... see you're doing it again. Can't even keep your own argument straight. At first you said 1,200 yards made it an excellent season, then you turn around and say that IF he had 5-6 TD's that would make it so. You then switch it up for a third time and say just because he's ranked #15 in yards doesn't mean it isn't an excellent season. Let's just go with the "he's having an excellent season" campaign since you can't make up your mind. If that's the case, then the Dolphins front office brass would recognize this too right? Why risk your commodity injuring himself further if you already know his level of play is up to excellent status?

I can name 6 more Dolphins WR's that have had seasons worthy of Hartline's yardage or better .... 3 of whom also topped the 1,200 yardage mark.

You calling Hartline's year excellent is still so freakin' ironic due to all the campaigning you've been doing for upgrading the position.

Wait a minute ..... on December 17th you said:

Wkloiber13 wrote:

While he's having a good season, he's not having a great season. I think the Dolphins should really point out that the kid only has one touchdown this year, and hasn't had more than one touchdown a season since 2009, his rookie year. Yards are nice, and his contract should reflect that he's a quality possession receiver, but an elite receiver he is most definitely not.http://www.phinfeverforums.com/forums/v ... 80&p=99040

He's Tannehill's go to guy this year, he'll get his looks regardless of whether or not he's double covered.

I never said his season was excellent. I'll repeat, the yardage is an excellent amount, but the lack of touchdowns is terrible. I'd say overall he's having a good season. If he had a handful more touchdowns, he'd be having a great season. But for whatever reason he couldn't get the foot down, got tripped up in the open field, missed the catch, etc. Hartline lacks playmaking ability, he doesn't generate a ton of yards after the catch. He's a great possession guy. He runs good routes. He has good hands. He just doesn't have that extra little bit to put him over the top. I like Hartline a lot, but I'm not going to make him out to be something he isn't. In my opinion he's a good 3rd or 4th option on a good team. He's a decent 2nd option on a mediocre team. Unfortunately he's the 1st option on our team. That is why I've been for upgrading the position.

Here is a question for you since you think his season is going so well and his job is so completely secure. Where would you rank Hartline on the Packers roster? Where would you rank him in terms of talent compared to Cobb, Jennings, Jones, Nelson, and Driver? Think about that for a minute. If you answer the question honestly that will tell you where our receiver group is at.

Here is a question for you since you think his season is going so well and his job is so completely secure. Where would you rank Hartline on the Packers roster? Where would you rank him in terms of talent compared to Cobb, Jennings, Jones, Nelson, and Driver? Think about that for a minute. If you answer the question honestly that will tell you where our receiver group is at.

The question has absolutely no relevance to the discussion and now you're just getting into semantics, particularly about what part of Hartline's game was "excellent."

The Dolphins don't need the Jags game or the Patriots game to solidify what they already know about the guy in regards to his contract situation. Not unless he randomly starts chewing out a coach on the sideline or miracously pops off for 300+ yards and 6 TD's in two games. They can do the math and trust that if he were playing, he'd hit his average and net another 130 yards to add to his "excellent" yardage total.

Man if 15th in yardage was excellent I'm curious if you'll retract your statement about Matt Moore's 12th QBR ranking last year. Did he have an excellent QBR? LMFAO.