What do you think of this homebrew Fighter archetype? It is a combination of two other homebrew Weapon Master archetypes which I can't link to on this forum because I have too few posts. It is intended to replace the Eldritch Knight and the Champion as a choosable archetype in my D&D campaign because I wanted specific non-caster options in the Fighter class. There are already so many caster options...

In my homebrew setting, all weapon related feats are banned. So I did work in some feat related abilities in this class instead without hopefully making it overpowered.

Version 1.0: Instead of a Weapon Style, you had to choose a Weapon Type (longswords, longbows etc.) but I figured this was too limiting and DM depended so I changed into Weapon Style, which is a lot like the Fighting Styles.

Weapon Master Archetype
Weapon masters strive to attain martial perfection with a specific weapon style. Their devotion to mastering that weapon style results in almost supernatural skill when wielding these weapons.

Weapon Style Specialization
At 3rd level, when wielding your weapon specialization, you have advantage on saving throws and checks to resist any effect that targets your weapon such as grease, heat metal, or shatter spells, as well as disarm attempts.
Choose a weapon style specialization:

One-handed: If you roll a 1 on your damage die (or dice on a critical hit), you may re-roll the die. You must keep the result of the re-roll.
Two-handed: As a bonus action on your turn, you can increase your reach by 5 feet for the rest of your turn.
Dual wield: You can use your reaction to parry, gaining a +1 bonus to AC while you are wielding a separate melee weapon in each hand. Also you can use dual wield even when the one handed melee weapons you are wielding aren’t Light and not have the Thrown property.
Ranged: You can use your ranged weapon to perform a Shove attack, using Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics). Also if it can be used in the off-hand you can attack with it as a bonus action (for example the light crossbow).
Thrown: You can draw a weapon with the "thrown" property as part of an attack you make it with, without spending your free object interaction. If you have multiple attacks, you can draw and throw a weapon for each one of them.
Shield*: If you take the attack action on your turn, you can use a bonus action to try to shove a creature within 5 feet of you using your shield.
Chain*: As a bonus action on your turn, you can prepare yourself to extend your chained weapon to sweep over targets’ shields. Until the end of this turn, your attack rolls with a chained weapon gain a +2 bonus to hit against any target using a shield.

* Are not official properties, but necessary for this class.

Peerless Display (~)
At 7th level you gain the ability to put on a display of weapon handling that can challenge, confuse, or intimidate a foe. As an action, you create a display of impressive weapon skills targeted at one creature you can see within 30 feet. That creature must succeed at a Wisdom saving throw with a DC equal to (8 + your proficiency bonus + your ability modifier, see effect) or suffer one of the following effects (your choice);

Challenge (Persuasion): The creature has disadvantage on attack rolls against anyone except you until the end of its next turn.
Confuse (Performance): You have advantage on your next single attack against the creature.
Frighten (Intimidate): The creature is frightened of you until the end of its next turn.

If the creature succeeds on its saving throw, you can't use this ability on it again until 24 hours have passed. Creatures with an Intelligence score below 3 are not affected by this ability. You can use Peerless Display twice before you need a short or long rest.
Starting at 15th level, you can use a bonus action to perform Peerless Display.

Weapon Style Mastery
Also at 10th level your weapon style specialization becomes a weapon style mastery. You can unlock special benefits with the mastery style, depending on the properties of the weapon itself.

Also, you can now select a 2nd weapon style specialization.

Ammunition: You may recover all your expended ammunition when taking a minute to search the battlefield.
Finesse / Light / Versatile:
Dual-wield: Your AC increases by 2 against melee attacks.
One-handed: When you make an opportunity attack with the weapon, you have advantage on the attack roll.
Two-handed Versatile: You get a +2 bonus to damage.
Heavy**: When making the Shove special attack with this weapon, you gain advantage on the Strength check.
Loading: You ignore the loading property if you have a free-hand, or wielding the weapon with two hands.
Range: You gain no disadvantage when using this weapon beyond its normal range.
Reach: You may make an opportunity attack against a target that approaches your reach.
Thrown: The normal range of a thrown weapon is doubled, and the maximum range to four times the new normal range. When you make a ranged attack with a thrown weapon, you do not have disadvantage on the attack roll if you are within 5 feet of a hostile creature who can see you and who isn't incapacitated as long as the weapon is of the light or finesse type.
Two-Handed (Melee only): You score a critical hit on a roll of 19-20.
Shield: If you aren't incapacitated, you can add your shield's AC bonus to any Dexterity save made against a spell or other effect that affects only you.
Chained: When you hit with an opportunity attack using a chained weapon, the target must succeed on a Strength saving throw (DC 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength modifier) or be knocked prone.
Special: You have no disadvantage or penalties using the weapon. Also if ranged, the range is doubled depending on the specific weapon type (consult with your DM).

**Not allowed for the Pike weapon (which also has disadvantage to hit on 5ft).

Focused attack
Moreover at 10th level, you gain the ability to re-roll a failed attack roll with your weapon style mastery once every long rest. If you do so, you must keep the result of the new roll. You can use this ability twice between long rests starting at 14th level, and three times between long rests starting at 18th level.

Grand Mastery
At 15th level, you are now a grand master with your weapon style. You gain a bonus +1 to hit with your weapon style, or a bonus +1 to AC if you chose shield. Moreover, enemies attacking you with your grand mastery weapon style, have disadvantage on hit or shove checks, unless you are surprised, or you can't see the enemy.
Also your 2nd weapon style specialization becomes a weapon style mastery.

Weapon Supremacy
At 18th level, you are virtually unparalleled in your weapon skill. You gain the following abilities.

Melee Supremacist. if your grand mastery weapon is a melee weapon, you can use your action to make a single melee attack against each creature within your reach. You make a separate attack roll for each creature.
Ranged Supremacist. If your grand mastery weapon is a ranged weapon, pick a target point within range and make a single ranged attack against each creature within 10 feet of that point. You make a separate attack roll for each creature.

GalacticAxekick

2018-05-25, 11:36 AM

I'm a huge fan of martial characters, and so I'm disappointed that 5e gives them so few options besides "attack" and "learn magic". I was really excited to read this!

That said, there's one big way that we disagree. I think the Fighter should either (A) have a separate archetype for each specialization, allowing for them to be explored thoroughly or (B) have a system for selecting features similar to selecting spells, allowing them to be mixed and matched.

Your Weapon Master neither covers each specialization thoroughly, nor gives the player a lot of room to mix and match features. The result, in my opinion, is an archetype that doesn't add many options to the game. It doesn't help that many of the options were formerly feats, since the player might be able to do more if they chose an official archetype and then took feats on top of it.

If you like, I can go into detail on how each particular feature works (or doesn't work) mechanically or thematically. But my biggest concern is that there are too many features for one archetype. By necessity, they're all a little mechanically and thematically shallow.

Here's my take on the Fighter (http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/BJ5IloNre), which was also written presuming a lack of feats, if you're interested.

Fellentos

2018-05-26, 04:06 PM

I'm a huge fan of martial characters, and so I'm disappointed that 5e gives them so few options besides "attack" and "learn magic". I was really excited to read this!

That said, there's one big way that we disagree. I think the Fighter should either (A) have a separate archetype for each specialization, allowing for them to be explored thoroughly or (B) have a system for selecting features similar to selecting spells, allowing them to be mixed and matched.

I think your design stance makes a lot of sense to make the (A) or (B) fighter stand out from the other classes or archetypes. I haven't looked at the fighter class this way, but I find it very interesting.

Your Weapon Master neither covers each specialization thoroughly, nor gives the player a lot of room to mix and match features. The result, in my opinion, is an archetype that doesn't add many options to the game. It doesn't help that many of the options were formerly feats, since the player might be able to do more if they chose an official archetype and then took feats on top of it.

If you like, I can go into detail on how each particular feature works (or doesn't work) mechanically or thematically. But my biggest concern is that there are too many features for one archetype. By necessity, they're all a little mechanically and thematically shallow.

You have a good point about the downsides of using feat-like abilities in the archetype. I think that was a mistake of my side, and I'm already thinking of changing these particular abilities so feats can still be used.

I agree that the archetype is lacking depth. Although making it more complex clashes with one of my design principles that this fighter archetype should not be too complex. I already have the Battlemaster as an archetype you can pick in my game so I want something completely different from that.

Here's my take on the Fighter[/URL], which was also written presuming a lack of feats, if you're interested.

You have a very interesting take on the Fighter class, somewhat in the line of my own thinking with the Stances / Styles. I'm curious why you gutted the Battlemaster abilities so much. It's very popular according to some polls of the D&D community. I get why you did it though, and your styles aren't too complex, while still providing meaningful choices and depth.

I'm not sure if I will change the Fighter and its archetypes as much as you have, but I like the Styles you used. Some abilities are taken from other classes though, which is a shame because it makes the other classes less unique. Still I can hardly think of other abilities that fit without copying.

I'll think on this more, you inspired me to have a different take on the homebrew. I'll let you know when I have a new version. Hopefully we can add to the Fighter class where WoTC have not, and we are all the better for it.

GalacticAxekick

2018-05-26, 07:09 PM

You have a good point about the downsides of using feat-like abilities in the archetype. I think that was a mistake of my side, and I'm already thinking of changing these particular abilities so feats can still be used.I don't think using feat-like abilities was a mistake, necessarily. My Duelist archetype has gets the Defensive Duelist feat at 1st level. My Guardian archetype gets part of the Shield Master feat at 7th level. And my Sharpshooter archetype gets a version of the Sharpshooter feat at 1st level. The same way that Magic Initiate lets anyone sample a spellcaster's tools, I think weapon and armour feats should let anyone sample a fighter's tools.

In other words, I love your decision to include a lot of feat effects as fighter features.

The problem arrises when this is all or most of what the player gets to satisfy their concept. If a player wants to play a Captain America style shield user and chooses Shield Specialization at both 3rd level and 10th level, they actually come out with less than what the Shield Master feat would normally give them. The range of character concepts is constrained, not expanded.

I agree that the archetype is lacking depth. Although making it more complex clashes with one of my design principles that this fighter archetype should not be too complex. I already have the Battlemaster as an archetype you can pick in my game so I want something completely different from that.Very fair! I tend to favour having more tools over having simple tools, but I know a lot of players who want exactly the opposite, and who would probably prefer your design over mine.

You have a very interesting take on the Fighter class, somewhat in the line of my own thinking with the Stances / Styles. I'm curious why you gutted the Battlemaster abilities so much. It's very popular according to some polls of the D&D community. I get why you did it though, and your styles aren't too complex, while still providing meaningful choices and depth.Battle Master manoeuvres cost superiority dice, which are finite. After a bit of adventuring, the Battle Master is forced to simply attack every round. Because being able to make decisions is important to me, I wanted to nerf the manoeuvres and make them free rather than cost dice. This had a variety of effects:

Many Battle Master manoeuvres are strictly upgraded versions of ordinary abilities (e.g. Disarming strike, Evasive Footwork, Feinting Attack, Lunging Attack, Precision Attack, Pushing Attack, Sweeping Attack, Trip Attack). Nerfing them reduced them to the abilities every character already has (e.g. disarming, moving, attacking, shoving away, knocking prone)
Other Battle Master manoeuvres are social features tied to an attack (e.g. commander's strike, distracting strike, goading attack, maneuvering attack, menacing attack, rally). Nerfing them reduced them to purely social features, which I gave toa purely social class (http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/SyJbQnhWl) that I wrote.
The remaining Battle Master manoeuvres—parry and riposte—provide totally novel combat skills. After reducing their power and making them free, I gave them available to my Duelist archetype.

I'm not sure if I will change the Fighter and its archetypes as much as you have, but I like the Styles you used. Some abilities are taken from other classes though, which is a shame because it makes the other classes less unique. Still I can hardly think of other abilities that fit without copying.I don't believe I took any abilities from any other classes. I took the Sneak Attack dice progression from Rogues, but not the Sneak Attack itself, which means that the Brutes, Duelists and Sharpshooters who share the progression all play very differently than the Rogues who introduced it.

I'll think on this more, you inspired me to have a different take on the homebrew. I'll let you know when I have a new version. Hopefully we can add to the Fighter class where WoTC have not, and we are all the better for it.I look forward!