This is a discussion on Is Fixed Limit Poker Waste of Time??? within the online poker forums, in the General Poker section; So i just recently got into poker, I've spent so much time investing/trading stocks and recently stopped I wanted something else to do that involves

Is Fixed Limit Poker Waste of Time???

So i just recently got into poker, I've spent so much time investing/trading stocks and recently stopped I wanted something else to do that involves probability.

One thing I acknowledge is that my goal isn't to make consistent money from the start. I put it in some $ in an account and I've acknowledged that I may lose it all, it's just money for the learning process.

Doing this sort of thing gives me the right mindset --> I just try to figure out a way to consistently make money and I dont worry about conserving the money or expanding it, just being rational and figuring out a system that works.

BUUUUT

I've been playing limit holdem where you can only bid a max up to the previous bet, and over 80+ hours of playing I'm down to half my money.

It's just this slow, steady move downward on my money and I haven't been able to figure out how to reverse it. And I dont want to jump into no-limit: whenever I do, I get owned because I'm a newbie and my bankroll would be wiped out so fast with no learning in return.

But I'm thinking low limit just may not work, am I wasting my time doing it?

(More Below)

#2

20th August 2008, 3:35 AM

ChuckTs [13,653]

Nope, limit is most definitely profitable. No offense, but you're probably just not good enough to win yet. Go and pick yourself up Small Stakes Hold'em by Ed Miller and David Sklansky. Should put you well on your way to building a nice foundation to start winning.

At first, I played conservatively (Not because I was concerned about losing money, but just trying to figure out the best way to win the most often). I'm static when I do this: I don't make or lose much money. I don't bid up too much unless I really think I"m going to win --> Obviously this conservative way of playing doesnt work.

Then I tried aggressive --> THinking if I have a better than average pocket I'll up the bet and if I have a better than average chance of winning at any other point --> I put up $. Let's say I get King, 4 on the pockets. I'll up the bet because that is slightly better than average pocket, therefore my chances are slightly better than average at winning.

It's all about probability, and I've really been playing agressively w my money when I think I'm going to win, but it just doesnt seem to work. Playing aggressive has dropped my money in half (which I have no concerns about) and playing conservative gets me nowhere. Meanwhile I switch into no limit and that makes things far more complicated --> So much more finesse required, probability is a lot harder to deal with.

I'm really just in a rut, usually I can find a way to work things out if I approach other probability things (Stocks) with objectivity like I am, but poker isn't working for me.

#5

20th August 2008, 3:40 AM

Higgleop [9]

Online Poker at: playersonly

Game: holdem

Originally Posted by ChuckTs

Nope, limit is most definitely profitable. No offense, but you're probably just not good enough to win yet. Go and pick yourself up Small Stakes Hold'em by Ed Miller and David Sklansky. Should put you well on your way to building a nice foundation to start winning.

Cool I actually already ordered that, and I dont take offense to people saying I'm bad. I AM bad, but I'm working towards getting good...you can't start off an expert at something.

You seemed to imply this, but are you able to consistently win $ with limit holdem?

#6

20th August 2008, 3:41 AM

S93 [6,162]

Game: NL

re: Poker & Is Fixed Limit Poker Waste of Time???

Originally Posted by StevenMick12

I think fixed poker is a waste of time

Good for you,i whonder why there is alot of people who make living at it
Are they wasting there time?

Originally Posted by StevenMick12

you cant really bluff in it because u can barely raise that much

Yes u can........

Originally Posted by StevenMick12

It makes it hard to play your good hands and bad hands

Sure in limit there is alot more marginal decisions then in NL but better players do alot better in marginal decisons,there for profiting more because of these marginal decisons.

p.s there is nice litle Edit button next to your post so there is no need to multipost like this

#7

20th August 2008, 3:43 AM

Higgleop [9]

Online Poker at: playersonly

Game: holdem

Originally Posted by sindri_93

Good for you,i whonder why there is alot of people who make living at it
Are they wasting there time?

Yes u can........

Sure in limit there is alot more marginal decisions then in NL but better players do alot better in marginal decisons,there for profiting more because of these marginal decisons.

p.s there is nice litle Edit button next to your post so there is no need to multipost like this

Same question to you, you imply that you can beat fixed limit, so I'm assuming you have experience doing so?

#8

20th August 2008, 3:44 AM

unstoppable4 [245]

Originally Posted by Higgleop

So the reason I'm not getting low/fixed limit to work:

At first, I played conservatively (Not because I was concerned about losing money, but just trying to figure out the best way to win the most often). I'm static when I do this: I don't make or lose much money. I don't bid up too much unless I really think I"m going to win --> Obviously this conservative way of playing doesnt work.

Then I tried aggressive --> THinking if I have a better than average pocket I'll up the bet and if I have a better than average chance of winning at any other point --> I put up $. Let's say I get King, 4 on the pockets. I'll up the bet because that is slightly better than average pocket, therefore my chances are slightly better than average at winning.

It's all about probability, and I've really been playing agressively w my money when I think I'm going to win, but it just doesnt seem to work. Playing aggressive has dropped my money in half (which I have no concerns about) and playing conservative gets me nowhere. Meanwhile I switch into no limit and that makes things far more complicated --> So much more finesse required, probability is a lot harder to deal with.

I'm really just in a rut, usually I can find a way to work things out if I approach other probability things (Stocks) with objectivity like I am, but poker isn't working for me.

K 4 is not a good enough hand to raise with or call with in my opinion.

#9

20th August 2008, 3:47 AM

S93 [6,162]

Game: NL

Originally Posted by Higgleop

Cool I actually already ordered that, and I dont take offense to people saying I'm bad. I AM bad, but I'm working towards getting good...you can't start off an expert at something.

I think u have great additute and if u stick with u should be on your way to crushing limit .

Same question to you, you imply that you can beat fixed limit, so I'm assuming you have experience doing so?

No i dont really play fixed limit but there are plenty of people out(some i know)there that manage to profit nicly from FL

#11

20th August 2008, 3:40 PM

MrMuckets [2,379]

Online Poker at: FullTilt

I am a fixed limit cash game player. I do just fine. If you can't handle it then don't play it, but don't come in here putting down a game you don't understand.

#12

20th August 2008, 4:20 PM

RickH2005 [1,094]

Poker at: PS/UB

Game: Holdem/7-Stu

re: Poker & Is Fixed Limit Poker Waste of Time???

NO poker is a waste of time----IF you know how to play in the 1st place! From the sounds of your post, you're pretty new to the game and I highly suggest the 1st thing to do would get a book, Skalinsky is good-there's plenty of them ot there--next, go to our "Poker Stratagys" articles---then, as you've done, don't be afraid to ask questions right here--the folks at CC are the best and quality players--and not, for the most part, mean lil' kids who will ridicule your questions! We are, for the most part, people who take great solice in sharing our accumulated knowledge and help each other (And I can certainly attest to that-'cuz you wouldn't believe all the folks here have done for me!!) to the absolute best way we can! THEN, I'd---and this is how I began to learn BEFORE making any deposits and playing for cash money---start by playing in all the FRs at all the sites I can(to learn where it is I want to call my main home site) and start to use what I've been able to learn to date, then PRACTICE-PRACTICE-PRACTICE! When you think you've got it-PRACTICE SOME MORE! Then start w/real money at the micro tables and PRACTICE some more! GL!

#13

20th August 2008, 4:45 PM

gnk2727 [444]

Online Poker at: FTP & Stars

Game: NL Holdem

See the thing that I've found with Limit Poker (any kind, holdem, razz, omaha, horse, etc.) is that people will chase down their draws more often than in no limit. This happens because they only have to call one more bet versus calling a pot sized, or all in bet.

What that means is that your AK, AQ, etc. is no longer good enough if you can catch top pair because the oppostion is more than likely going after a monster hand.

Also especially in a game like Omaha sets, full houses, 2 pair and flushes are the majority of hands that win.

Just my .02

#14

20th August 2008, 6:32 PM

MrMuckets [2,379]

Poker at: FullTilt

^^^^This is simply not true. Many is the time in no limit where no one bets or they bet the minimum and players chase all the time. You play .10/.20 nl and think you made a big bet when you bet .30, play .50/1.00 limit and you have to bet .50. You don't understand limit play so stay away from it or come to my table.

#15

20th August 2008, 6:56 PM

Higgleop [9]

Online Poker at: playersonly

Game: holdem

Originally Posted by RickH2005

NO poker is a waste of time----IF you know how to play in the 1st place! From the sounds of your post, you're pretty new to the game and I highly suggest the 1st thing to do would get a book, Skalinsky is good-there's plenty of them ot there--next, go to our "Poker Stratagys" articles---then, as you've done, don't be afraid to ask questions right here--the folks at CC are the best and quality players--and not, for the most part, mean lil' kids who will ridicule your questions! We are, for the most part, people who take great solice in sharing our accumulated knowledge and help each other (And I can certainly attest to that-'cuz you wouldn't believe all the folks here have done for me!!) to the absolute best way we can! THEN, I'd---and this is how I began to learn BEFORE making any deposits and playing for cash money---start by playing in all the FRs at all the sites I can(to learn where it is I want to call my main home site) and start to use what I've been able to learn to date, then PRACTICE-PRACTICE-PRACTICE! When you think you've got it-PRACTICE SOME MORE! Then start w/real money at the micro tables and PRACTICE some more! GL!

I've been playing a lot w/ fake money but I feel like it's a bad simulation. Fixed limit is better than no limit in it, but people just throw their fake money out their and I've had no problem consistently making money w fake money (My Accounts gone up almost 200% easily). Then I try real money and people are a lot more conservative, smarter.

#16

20th August 2008, 6:59 PM

gnk2727 [444]

Poker at: FTP & Stars

Game: NL Holdem

Originally Posted by MrMuckets

^^^^This is simply not true. Many is the time in no limit where no one bets or they bet the minimum and players chase all the time. You play .10/.20 nl and think you made a big bet when you bet .30, play .50/1.00 limit and you have to bet .50. You don't understand limit play so stay away from it or come to my table.

I see your point, but my point is that in Limit poker its much easier to chase something than in no limit poker because it's only 1 more bet they have to call.

Or maybe I'm missing something else that youre trying to say?

But either way I know my Limit game needs work since I hardly if ever play Limit.........

#17

20th August 2008, 7:05 PM

Cowboy8112 [658]

Online Poker at: Carbon,PS,FT

Game: Holdem

Limit, pot limit, fied limit and no limit are all different versions of the same game, they are not played the same and it takes time to learn how each of them is played. Texas holdem is the game that should lay claim to the phrase " a moment to learn, a lifetime to master".

My advise..... play money tables for 30 days. (note: play money plays very different than real money but its a fine place to learn)

#18

20th August 2008, 7:23 PM

E-Dub [64]

Poker at: Pokerstars

Game: Omaha

re: Poker & Is Fixed Limit Poker Waste of Time???

You know, I've heard from more than one person that a beginning player should always start with limit games to learn the relative value of hands on different streets and what to do with them. I've seen it recommended that a total beginner should start with stud variants, then move to limit hold'em and limit Omaha before moving to "big bet" games (pot-limit and no limit hold'em, pot-limit Omaha). Of course, like most people here (I suspect) I started with no-limit hold'em.

Back on topic, I think that "worth" of limit poker is proven at the fixed-limit events at the World Series, which are always dominated by true pros.

#19

20th August 2008, 7:42 PM

jolubman [768]

Online Poker at: Not Juicy St

Game: Horse

I truely believe that unless you're playing for sky-high stakes that's there's not much money in poker per hour. I play poker for enjoyment. If I played to make a living, I'd be on welfare. Even when I do good and win or place high in a tournament the money per hour still stinks.

#20

21st August 2008, 12:58 AM

Ice Wolf [406]

No way fixed limit Holdem is my game of choice. Fixed limit allows you to better control your losses and also allows you to see the turn and the river more freely. Bluffing is easy to if your good at it.

#21

21st August 2008, 1:08 AM

switch0723 [8,453]

I play both fixed and no limit HU poker, and although i find nl way more entertaining so i use it as my main. If im in a rough spell of hands then i play fixed limit profitably aswell and usually for just the same bb/100. Its just more of a game about maths and reads, you really need to be able to pinpoint villains range accurately to make the right calls and be profitable

#22

21st August 2008, 1:25 AM

markpro [69]

Poker at: fulltilt

Game: all poker

My advice to you is then, limit poker is a came you can catch more in since there is a fixed limit to the persons betting, so your chances of catching are actually a lot of the time in your favor to call since the betting is at minimum... but there are other things to take into consideration, like how the other person plays and this is a very important part of poker. if you play in ral life or over the internet matters cause it is verryyy but verryy true that you can get a lot of information from a person and then use it to your advantage... NL holdem is a totally different game though. you dont always have something and bluffing is what makes this game so great! After feeling the table out for a bit you basically know how the ppl play and for the first half hour or something you should play tight and learn this... after that you can make a few moves making ppl think your a tight person and jet some free chips. You have to know a persons limit on calling! a lot of the time you can know if someone is trying to catch! and if they are willing to pay your bet, make them pay big! cause even though your gonna win most of the time, you want him to pay you off so that in the long run you get a larger profit. Statistics are important, especially in the beginning of the hand where you analise what you have, if you should play it, ofcourse you have to constantly change your play because ppl notice these things and if you do it confuses your opponents and youll be making a nice profit. Practice no limit on the low stakes and read a few books to get yourself start and in no time youll be a fare and safe player... and at one point youll pass that stage and who knows. GL at the tables!

#23

21st August 2008, 1:57 AM

moots [7,673]

I hate playing limit or fixed poker. But I find that I last longer in tournaments when it's limit poker. It's kinda annoying to play at the start because the blinds are so low. I've done badly when playing no limit in cash games, so maybe limit is worth a shot.

#24

21st August 2008, 2:23 AM

SAH89 [331]

Poker at: Full Tilt

Game: HEROS+HORSE

re: Poker & Is Fixed Limit Poker Waste of Time???

I can only win in ring games playing limit. NL is better for tournament play.

#25

21st August 2008, 2:46 AM

dj11 [22,475]

Online Poker at: WPN

Game: Horse.

Keep in mind that with limit poker, the limits you play at make all the difference. A $10 max game is not gonna play like a $50 max game.

And higgleop, while you are in the self proclaimed learning stage, don't waste money when much of what you are learning can be learned at play money tables. Much of it will not translate to real money, but the basics of whats going on is the same. If/when you can play high play money stakes and succeed, you will be ready for $10 max games.

#26

21st August 2008, 8:44 AM

thasauce7 [122]

Poker at: full tilt

Game: any card gam

I'm glad your interested in fixed limit Higgle. Recently I've been trying alot of new things and one of them happens to be limit holdem. I plan on writing an article that explains basically every facet of beating fixed limit. Right now I'm trying to get a good sample size down so I can have some quality numbers to back my information. Shoot me a pm and I would be happy to help you out with any of your questions. And yes I am beating it.

#27

21st August 2008, 2:23 PM

PokerVic [822]

Online Poker at: PokerStars

Game: Holdem

I think the OP is being a little hard on himself. Very few players are profitable right out of the gate. Drop down in stakes to give yourself more time to learn. But, a few basic books on poker strategy will probably do wonders.

Remember, like a lot of things, learning poker is a game of diminishing returns. As a newcomer, learning just a few things can make your chances of success 5 to 10 times higher. But, if you're randomly changing your playing style to find one that works, you might have an awful lot of trail-and-error ahead of you.

#28

21st August 2008, 2:30 PM

keekon [52]

Poker at: ultimatebet

Game: holdem

I like no-limit the best because you can double up quicker and I find its easier to bluff. On limit how do you bluff youu can't raise alot and you are definetly going to get called no matter what. But on the loosing end of it. If you don,t want to loose money to fast, limit poker is great for a person.

#29

21st August 2008, 2:35 PM

Brann6 [175]

Online Poker at: Hero

Game: Holdem

Someone once said limit is about your cards, no limit is about the players. The two games are very, very different animals

For limit, I'd recommend the Slanksy/Miller books.

For no limit, I'd suggest "Harrington on Cash."

#30

21st August 2008, 2:55 PM

Tygran [1,757]

Poker at: Carbon

Game: PLO/NLH

re: Poker & Is Fixed Limit Poker Waste of Time???

To the OP...I really like your attitude about it and the way you asked the question. That's a great way to get into poker and start learning about it.

No Limit and Limit are extremely different animals. Limit is most definitely not a waste of time unless you are used to no limit and not willing to learn how it's different. This doesn't describe the OP (though I think it does a few of the repliers).

The Sklansky/Miller book is excellent and that's a great jumping off point for you I think!