[F]inally president, the indigenous peoples, the poor come especially from a culture of life and not a culture of war, and this millennium will really have to be to defend live, to save humanity and if we want to save humanity we have the obligation to save the planet. The indigenous peoples live in harmony with mother earth, and not only in reciprocity, in solidarity, with human beings.

We feel greatly that the politics of hegemonist competitions are destroying the planet. I feel that all countries, social forces, international organisms are important, let us begin to debate truthfully, in order to save the planet, to save humanity.

This new millennium, the millennium that we find ourselves in needs to be a millennium of life, not of war, a millennium of people and not of empire, a millennium of justice and equality and that any economic policy needs to be orientated towards ending, of at least lessening these so-called asymmetric differences between one country and another country, those social inequalities.

We are not trying to implement policies that allow the economic humiliation or economic looting; when they cannot loot according to the norms, they use troops.

I want to ask with great respect, that it is important to withdraw troops from Iraq if we want to respect human rights, it is important to withdraw economic policies that allow the concentration of capital in only a few hands.

And for this, I feel president, that these events should be historical in order to change the world and to change economic models, interventionalist policies. Above all else we want them to be times that allow us to defend and save humanity

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Danny Schechter at News Dissector has a bang up series of links and snips dated the 16th… he can be irritating (and people write to him and say so) he can be sloppy with links and sometimes not link, so a few excerpts to follow, it is jampacked…

Start with the worst:

BALAD AIR BASE, Iraq (AP) – The airplane is the size of a jet fighter, powered by a turboprop engine, able to fly at 300 mph and reach 50,000 feet. It’s outfitted with infrared, laser and radar targeting, and with a ton and a half of guided bombs and missiles.

The Reaper is loaded, but there’s no one on board. Its pilot, as it bombs targets in Iraq, will sit at a video console 7,000 miles away in Nevada.

The arrival of these outsized U.S. “hunter-killer” drones, in aviation history’s first robot attack squadron, will be a watershed moment even in an Iraq that has seen too many innovative ways to hunt and kill.

That moment, one the Air Force will likely low-key, is expected “soon,” says the regional U.S. air commander. How soon? “We’re still working that,” Lt. Gen. Gary North said in an interview.

The Reaper’s first combat deployment is expected in Afghanistan, and senior Air Force officers estimate it will land in Iraq sometime between this fall and next spring. They look forward to it.

“With more Reapers, I could send manned airplanes home,” North said.

IMPEACH! WITHHOLD THE VOTE: NO ONE is ending the wars. NO ONE WILL END THE WARS…

When President George W. Bush announced the formation of a military command for Africa (AFRICOM) this past February, it came as no surprise to the Heritage Foundation. The powerful right-wing organization designed it. The Heritage Foundation, founded in 1973 by ultra-conservatives Paul Weyrich and Joseph Coors and funded by such right-wing mainstays as the Scaife Foundation, has a strong presence in the Bush Administration. While not as influential as the older and richer American Enterprise Institute, it has a higher profile when it comes to Africa policy.

Back in October 2003, James Jay Carafano and Nile Gardner of the Heritage Foundation laid out a blueprint for how to use military power to dominate that vast continent. ”Creating an African Command,” write the two analysts in a Heritage Foundation study entitled U.S. Military Assistance for Africa: A Better Solution, “would go a long way toward turning the Bush Administration’s well aimed strategic priorities for Africa into a reality.”

While the Bush Administration says the purpose of AFRICOM will be humanitarian aid and “security cooperation,” not “war fighting,” says Ryan Henry, principal deputy undersecretary of defense for policy.

The Heritage analysts were a tad blunter about the application of military power:

“Pre-emptive strikes are justified on grounds of self-defenseAmerica must not be afraid to employ its forces decisively when vital national interests are threatened.” Carafano and Gardner are also quite clear what those “vital interests” are: “The United States is likely to draw 25 percent of its oil from West Africa by 2015, surpassing the volume imported from the Persian Gulf.”

IMPEACH: The plan is to spin as much of the world to war as they can – what else does it look like?. ”THEY” is both parties.

WITHHOLD THE VOTE: They won’t de-fund!

DE FUND THEM!

****************************

Last from Danny, is from Matthew Rothschild at The Progressive:

It’s NOT BUSH’S PLAN – IT’S ”THEIR” PLAN:

Bush’s Manual for Containing Protest

By Matt Rothschild in the Progressive:

After a myriad of stories about people being excluded from events where the President is speaking, now we know that the White House had a policy manual on just how to do so.

Called the “Presidential Advance Manual,” this 103-page document from the Office of Presidential Advance lays out the parameters for how to handle protesters at events. ”Always be prepared for demonstrators,” says the document, which is dated October 2002 and which the ACLU released as part of a new lawsuit.

In a section entitled “Preventing Demonstrators,” the document says: “All Presidential events must be ticketed or accessed by a name list. This is the best method for preventing demonstrators. People who are obviously going to try to disrupt the event can be denied entrance at least to the VIP area between the stage and the main camera platform. … It is important to have your volunteers at a checkpoint before the Magnetometers in order to stop a demonstrator from getting into the event. Look for signs they may be carrying, and if need be, have volunteers check for folded cloth signs that demonstrators may be bringing.”

In another section, entitled “Preparing for Demonstrators,” the document makes clear that the intention is to deprive protesters of the right to be seen or heard by the President: “As always, work with the Secret Service and have them ask the local police department to designate a protest area where demonstrators can be placed, preferably not in view of the event site or motorcade route.”

The document also recommends drowning out protesters or blocking their signs by using what it calls “rally squads.” It states: “These squads should be instructed always to look for demonstrators. The rally squad’s task is to use their signs and banners as shields between the demonstrators and the main press platform.

If the demonstrators are yelling, rally squads can begin and lead supportive chants to drown out the protestors (USA!, USA!, USA!).

Think it will not be that way if Hillary goes in?, along WITH Obama – as Anna Quindlen is already calling on Hillary to do (and as Glen Ford at BAR has said since February, is the plan)

Remember all of those nasty winger judges the Vichy Donks couldn’t filibuster? Remember the civil liberties they couldn’t fight for, women’s issues and worker’s issues they ran away from? Remember the war they wouldn’t stop, wouldn’t slow down, still won’t de-fund? Remember the Gang of 14, the SEVEN Donklephants that cozied up to the ‘Thugs to prevent even the HINT of a filibuster?

The OLD Donklephants … the Dixiecrat version, used to filibuster all the time to preserve Jim Crow. Oh, and lest you think that there is much difference between the current Donklephant and the ole’ Dixiecrat, think hard about how much fight they’ve put into protecting the vote. Maybe they don’t say “colored” out loud where we can hear them, but they don’t care about black people any more, or poor people in general, than Bush does, let alone more than they did back before LBJ told them they should (as he was undermining it all sending men off to kill poor yellow people).

Anyway, that invertebrate known as the senior Senator from Illinois is upset because the theofascistauthoritariancorporatist …. ummmm … rightward-half-of-our-one-political-party is actually practicing politics and using the rules of the Senate to fight for it’s base’s priorities! SHAME ON THEM!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

DE FUND THE CONGRESS: Withhold the Vote!

They will still be sitting on the US taxpayer paid for toilets as the years roll by:

Could being the operative word here. With more and more demand for aerial imagery — and for drone attacks, too — the more likely outcome is that the Reapers will be used to augment the Air Force’s growing presence in Iraq. After all, the thousands of drones already in Iraq hasn’t exactly cut down the number of man-in-the-cockpit aircraft there. And at Balad Air Base, north of Baghdad, “the Air Force is building a 400,000-square-foot expansion of the concrete ramp area” now used for Reaper’s little brother, the Predator. “That new staging area could be turned over to Reapers,” the AP notes.

Meanwhile, Inside Defense is reporting that “the Air Force is on track to increase the number of unmanned aerial vehicle combat patrols in Iraq and Afghanistan from 12 to 21 by the end of 2009, nearly a year ahead of what service officials had originally planned.”

You have a natural tendency
To squeeze off a shot
You’re good fun at parties
You wear the right masks
You’re old but you still
Like a laugh in the locker room
You can’t abide change
You’re at home an the range
You opened your suitcase
Behind the old workings
To show off the magnum
You deafened the canyon
A comfort a friend
Only upstaged in the end
By the Uzi machine gun
Does the recoil remind you
Remind you of sex
Old man what the hell you gonna kill next
Old timer who you gonna kill next
I looked over Jordan and what did I see
Saw a U.S. Marine in a pile of debris
I swam in your pools
And lay under your palm trees
I looked in the eyes of the Indian
Who lay on the Federal Building steps
And through the range finder over the hill
I saw the frontline boys popping their pills
Sick of the mess they find
On their desert stage
And the bravery of being out of range
Yeah the question is vexed
Old man what the hell you gonna kill next
Old timer who you gonna kill next
Hey bartender over here
Two more shots
And two more beers
Sir turn up the TV sound
The war has started on the ground
Just love those laser guided bombs
They’re really great
For righting wrongs
You hit the target
And win the game
From bars 3,000 miles away
3,000 miles away
We play the game
With the bravery of being out of range
We zap and maim
With the bravery of being out of range
We strafe the train
With the bravery of being out of range
We gained terrain
With the bravery of being out of range
With the bravery of being out of range
We play the game
With the bravery of being out of range

Like a game of chess drawing to a close, there is a chilling aura that the final checkmate is imminent. In the least, democracy in America is in grave danger and at best dependent on chance.

I’m terribly afraid that we are closer to the end than anyone of us really want to believe

*****
(responding to SB from the previous thread)

Not brave, just foolhardy and pissed off as hell…

Here comes the helicopter — second time today
Everybody scatters and hopes it goes away
How many kids they’ve murdered only God can say
If I had a rocket launcher…I’d make somebody pay

I don’t believe in guarded borders and I don’t believe in hate
I don’t believe in generals or their stinking torture states
And when I talk with the survivors of things too sickening to relate
If I had a rocket launcher…I would retaliate

On the Rio Lacantun, one hundred thousand wait
To fall down from starvation — or some less humane fate
Cry for guatemala, with a corpse in every gate
If I had a rocket launcher…I would not hesitate

I want to raise every voice — at least I’ve got to try
Every time I think about it water rises to my eyes.
Situation desperate, echoes of the victims cry
If I had a rocket launcher…Some son of a bitch would die

Great post, Marisacat – so we weren’t imagining that the Man Who Has Become King could not be approached by the rabble, or even seen! I remember when he was in England and there were thousands of demonstrators. Someone asked Laura how she felt about them and she replied ‘I didn’t see any demonstrators’!

Also, at his second inauguration, I read that people were instructed not to make eye-contact with him! The country has been hi-jacked by extremely sick people and there seem to be a lot of them!

Good article by Dahr Jamail again … spreading the war machine to Africa! And I’m sure both parties are onboard. They are going to destroy this country …

As for the drones, the people of Afghanistan and Iraq are merely props to test out their new toys. It is criminal beyond words … as one commenter on that Feinstein diary said ‘I want to crawl into a cave and never come out’ …..

***********

Oh, too funny – I just checked Miss D’s links to the polls on who should or should not represent DK. NONE of them are very popular, and this is on their own site!! But PlutPage, BarbinMd, MissLaura, DHinMi extemely unpopular! Lol! Kos knows how to pick them.

But the unhappy couple, DHinMi and MissLaura get the prize for THE most unpopular beating out the rest of the unpopular kossacks! I think Francis Holland would have fared better! No, I know he would. Rotfl!

Fortunately Kos’s stupidity and weakness of character, makes it impossible for him to choose popular, respected individuals to represent him and his goals whatever they are. He gives into his dark side and actively seeks out the least liked people to do the job. And, thankfully, these are the least likely to be able to influence anyone!

Let’s hope he never changes – considering that his goals include silencing the most progressive voices on the internet. We need to be thankful for DHinMi and MissLaura, Plutpage et al! They make it obvious that being banned from DK is a badge of honor!

The few who are decent on the list, would be wise to jump ship if they want a future in blogging. I think before too long any association with that place will be something you might not want on your resume.

(which is usually written as FAUX, but we’re just sucking up because we want you to love us.)

Ellicat — Dear Fox viewer: This is not a hate site as was described on the Fox News show this evening. You were told that we are a hate site and that is all that we are about. Nothing could be further from the truth. We are a supportive, caring community.

lol

But post something, you non-Democratic assholes, and we’ll ban you six ways from Sunday.

My Daily Kos (Dkos) handle is Stephen DarkSyde, or DS for short. I’m a moderate conservative, currently registered as an Independent. I’m no lefty, or ultra-liberal, or anything of the sort — although I have very dear friends who could be described as liberals or conservatives. I am a ‘progressive’ conservative’ for lack of a better term. I thought Ronald Reagan was a terrific President. And I felt Bush Senior was a master at foreign policy, both of the diplomatic and military versions.

It is and we have a party by that name up here. In fact, it’s been running this province since damn near the stone age (which was ~6000 years ago, according to many of its supporters.)

I’d go through the history of how, nationally, the moderate cons (the PCs) went through various merges with the (neocon) Reform party but really, all you need to know is that they once called themselves the Canadian Conservative Reform Alliance Party – CCRAP. I kid you not.

Thus it is, that as part of the impeachment drive to oust the Vice President, the LaRouche Youth Movement has offered a keepsake to the public to commemorate that noble cause and hasten its fulfillment: the impeachment condom.

Distributed by the hundreds in Congressional districts in Seattle, San Francisco, and Los Angeles, the condoms bear the stapled messages to “Stop Protecting Dick!” and to “Pull the Dick out of the White House,” along with relevant Congressmember’s office phone numbers, fueling the call-in campaign that has their phones ringing in the sound of impeachment from angry constituents. Even the LYM in Australia have contributed to the effort, alerted shocked citizens in Melbourne that even they have a Dick problem.

I remember telling clammyc long ago that he seemed to have the formula down-he’s gotten the fp at bmt & mlw, and all his diaries end up on the rec list at dk. I can’t remember when I read through the last one.

there is no concept of scarcity=value there. it is primarily name-brands. there used to be a courtesy whereby the first person who posted a story would be recognized, and the subsequent diaries were considered deletable duplicates. but tonight I see that kestrel9000 posted the third Fox-related diary, but the other two slipped down the list.

does that not sum up our electoral politics or what?

I suspect that kos has been reluctant to weigh in on his dem ’08 prez pref, because it would be too fucking obvious if he admitted it was hillary.

kestrel’s a hypocrite. He wrote that little diary about how horribly upset he was about the treatment Sheehan received and then he was back in there like a dirty shirt in her last diary backing up the thugs. He should have taken a longer vacation.

Speaking of that, mom gives timeouts at MLW? Hilarious. Did the donkey have to sit in the corner and wear a dunce hat too or did they just duct tape him to the wall while they tried to poke pins in his tale?

LOl, Daily Kos, begging to be loved by the extreme right! What else is new? And it looks like SuperVixen’s instincts about Darksyde were right after all.

They try soooo hard to be loved and respected by the right, and no matter how they grovel, no matter how many progressives they ban of liberal voices they silence, the right still calls them a leftie hate sight.

Of course the right has it wrong, Daily Kos does not hate the right, they hate liberals as evidence by the thousands they’ve banned! But it’s just too funny to see how badly they yearn to be accepted by the right, that they practically beg ‘please, please don’t call me a liberal’

One commenter in that pathetic diary is envious of the welcome being extended to Fox Viewers, because she says, ‘I didn’t get any welcome’! Lol:

I think that would be an ideal situation (2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:Catrina, greeseyparrot

But I have to admit I find it utterly fascinating that you, as a front pager, are allowed to go around saying Reagan was awesome and we need to be able to countenance voting for Republicans instead of building up Dems, whereas anyone else who dares question Dems gets a warning (like Cindy Sheehan) or may be banned outright.

I’m not part of a redneck agenda – Green Day

When are they going to get it and just leave en masse and leave the place to the righties I see Enders from Red State in the thread, a bit worried that some of the anti-Reagan comments might be off-putting to his Fox Friends should they accept the invitation! Not to worry, Enders, they will survive just as you have, while lefties are an endangered species on DK.

Funny as hell that they dragged Darksyde out of the closet to ‘prove’ how rightwing friendly they are. I wonder will all those new Fox members ‘support Democrats because we are a democratic site blah, blah ….

***********

Catnip, I laughed too when I read that lie about backing up your claims, and thought of Barb’s false claim for which she could not provide any evidence. Lol!

And I love the claim that they are ‘not a hate site’ – lol! All anyone has to do is do a search on some of the FPers, like PlutPage who wished illness on another member. Or the delightful posts of ‘those who represent dk’ DhinMi and MissLaura who threatened physical violance against, well, Booman Lol! Lovely people.

But it really is pathetic, and extremely revealing to see them grovel to Fox News viewers …. sickening really!

*********

Tuston, to me it was brave. But I know what you mean about being so angry. Maybe that would give me the courage to tell them what I think of them. Don’t know ….

NEW YORK The Pittsburgh newspaper owned by conservative billionaire Richard Mellon Scaife yesterday called the Bush administration’s plans to stay the course in Iraq a “prescription for American suicide.”

The editorial in the Tribune-Review added, “And quite frankly, during last Thursday’s news conference, when George Bush started blathering about ‘sometimes the decisions you make and the consequences don’t enable you to be loved,’ we had to question his mental stability.”

It continued: “President Bush warns that U.S. withdrawal would risk ‘mass killings on a horrific scale.’ What do we have today, sir?

BASRA, Iraq (AFP) – About 300 oil industry workers gathered in Iraq’s main oil port of Basra on Monday to protest a draft law that they said would allow foreigners to pillage the country’s wealth.

“To compensate for the military and political failure of the US administration in Iraq, this administration is trying to control the country’s wealth,” the organisers said in a statement distributed to reporters.

“If this is endorsed by the parliament it would abolish sovereignty and hand over the wealth of this generation and the generations to come as a gift to the occupier,” the statement said.

The protesters, employees of the Oil Pipelines Company, wore black surgical masks over their faces and carried banners and black coffins with the word “freedom” written on the sides.

They’re out protesting in the middle of a civil war. Where are the so-called “progressives” protesting against this in the US? Oh I forgot. They’re busy handing out troll-ratings over at dkos.

PS – Looks like Bill Clinton’s antiterrorism law that stoked more death penalty ease is helping to railroad this case, grease the chute to death. Its in the DN report, but I can only partially listen, must go to bed now.

In the Feingold diary, I have to say when I read the comments (at about 1,300 when I was there, now nearly 1,800) it made me feel that there is hope.

Out of the 1,300 only about, at most, 8 or 9 were in agreement with him, and they were they usual suspects, AdamB, McJoan and a couple of others. They were like teeny, tiny voices in the wilderness though, completely over-ruled by the overwhelming majority.

The comments were mostly excellent making it apparent that even Feingold can not fool them with talking points. The commenters took apart his diary. I don’t think there was a point someone didn’t cover.

If your computer can handle it, the comments in that diary are worthwhile reading, from hundreds of Americans who it is clear, truly care about this country and will not be placated.

Moyers’ show was linked to for Feingold in case he missed it. Disappointment in him was expressed over and over again. There were a few who were not very polite, but most were informed and let him know that it is pointless to use the ‘we have important work to do’ as long as Bush is in power …

What I don’t get is why Democrats are so worried about the demands for Impeachment! It makes no sense, and some of the commenters wondered if they were being threatened or bribed, because it’s hard to understand the unbelievable unwillingness to hold these criminals responsible.

Feinstein made the mistake of admitting that they ‘may have committed impeachable offenses’ but then went on to say that he was worried that Impeaching them would take away valuable time from other business. The reaction to that was almost unanamously expressions of outrage.

DK started the pressure against anyone who advocated Impeachment last Fall when they went after Opol. I think they were shocked at the reaction they got. I’m sure they were supposed to suppress any talk of impeachment.

I suppose sending Feingold was the latest attempt to try to reason with people, assuming that because he is one of the few left who gets any respect over there (other Reps were told not to come back until they do their jobs) he would be listened to. If that’s what they thought, they couldn’t have been more wrong.

Thinking about that, I suppose because they are the kind of people who are influenced by people they perceive as powerful, even when it comes to their country, they assume others are too. If so, they have to be pretty disturbed by the reaction to Feingold today, despite his popularity.

The commenters left nothing out …. he was asked about his Iran vote also … by several people.

As many people said, they did not want to rec. the diary because it was the same old talking points, but they were reccing it for the comments so that it would be seen by as many people as possible.

I am certain there will be no impeachment, as Marisacat says in her post. And there will be no defunding of the war because it is becoming more and more clear that our country has been taken over and there is no opposition party. But the people in that diary, almost all of them, really made me feel good today!

It isn’t just there, people around the country who never heard of a blog, are organizing and in the latest poll taken on Impeachment, 46% want Bush impeached and 54% want Cheney gone, and that’s without any media coverage of the subject.

I wanted to thank all those posters for their comments. They did give me hope and showed how out of touch the dk ‘administration’ is with their own site, and with the mood in the country in general, if they think they can reign in the rising anger of people who put their country before party and certainly before any blog.

I don’t know if I have enough energy to wade through all of the comments but I’ll give it my best shot. It sounds like their little saviour bubble has burst – finally. They should have paid more attention to Feingold. He was cheerleading for Israel during the Israel/Lebanon war last year as well. He’s not quite as “liberal” as some people make him out to be.

NYCee, what a horrible story, I heard on the news that he got a 90 day reprieve, so maybe there is time to save him. I am signing the petition and will email it to my list ….

They’re out protesting in the middle of a civil war. Where are the so-called “progressives” protesting against this in the US? Oh I forgot. They’re busy handing out troll-ratings over at dkos.

Catnip, not only that, but the last time they went on strike, the government sent troops out to stop them. This should be all over the news. Again, why are the Democrats silent about this, and since they are why does anyone think they will end this war until the oil is stolen? This is a war crime. Another one among so many.

And let me add this obvious observation: if they’re so damn mad at Feingold for ditching impeachment, why did they glowingly prop up Pelosi against Sheehan – a woman who is demanding impeachment or else?

More sad news today. A NYC cabaret institution is dying on this Sunday – Rose’s Turn. Located at 55 Grove St. in the West Village, it has been around forever & is the best piano bar in town [not to mention many famous comedians getting their start in its cabaret room].

The tributes to Sanford I. Weill line the walls of the carpeted hallway that leads to his skyscraper office, with its panoramic view of Central Park. A dozen framed magazine covers, their colors as vivid as an Andy Warhol painting, are the most arresting. Each heralds Mr. Weill’s genius in assembling Citigroup into the most powerful financial institution since the House of Morgan a century ago.

His achievement required political clout, and that, too, is on display. Soon after he formed Citigroup, Congress repealed a Depression-era law that prohibited goliaths like the one Mr. Weill had just put together anyway, combining commercial and investment banking, insurance and stock brokerage operations. A trophy from the victory — a pen that President Bill Clinton used to sign the repeal — hangs, framed, near the magazine covers.

These days, Mr. Weill and many of the nation’s very wealthy chief executives, entrepreneurs and financiers echo an earlier era — the Gilded Age before World War I — when powerful enterprises, dominated by men who grew immensely rich, ushered in the industrialization of the United States. The new titans often see themselves as pillars of a similarly prosperous and expansive age, one in which their successes and their philanthropy have made government less important than it once was.

Ugh. I couldn’t take any more of those comments in that Feingold diary by the clueless kossacks/plants/closet Republicans/mindless “patriots” who still don’t understand why Bush/Cheney should be impeached. Aiders and abettors to high crimes. I did rec one comment someone made about the impact this unwillingness of the Dems to impeach is having on the rest of the world. It’s bad enough that some of them don’t care enough about the state of their own country – that ought to cinch it right there – but when they don’t even take the time to look beyond the obvious (Iraq) to what else Bushco has been up to all over the world, it’s no wonder they’re content to keep their heads stuck up their asses.

And oh the little tiff about trying to hide a comment that called Feingold a coward. lol Dog forbid that should meet his saintly eyes. Yes, they’re all about free speech there. Sure.

If they’re all so damn mad, why aren’t they out on the streets? (see the pic at the top of this post). They keep omitting the one thing Fein said: it’s not just up to congress, it’s up to the citizens. And what, exactly, are they doing besides whining online and sending useless e-mails to their reps?

I am shocked, however, to read that you thought Raygun was a great president! His obvious senility and his involvement with Iran/Contra, as well as his destruction of the fairness doctrine in the press made us what we are today. F’d.

senility aside, he was competent. He didn’t counsel us to hide under our beds and give up constitutional rights. And Reagan faced a real threat: nuclear annihilation. Al Qaeda is small potatoes compared to that.

that in the Cold War, we had assured mutual destruction, there is no deterrent against a small terrorist attack that can kill thousands of people. Or am I giving people who fear terrorism too much credit?

Live green or die.

by deadinthewater on Mon Jul 16, 2007 at 08:16:45 PM PDT

[ Parent ]
o
Nuclear annihilation? (0 / 0)

In the 1980’s? That’s not the way it went down as far as I’ve been taught. But correct me if I’m wrong, I was born only a few days after Raygun’s re-election.

that even a limited exchange with the USSR would have made 9-11 look like a firecracker in a tin can. We’re told the threat we face today is so grave, so fucking urgent: The End of Civilization is Looming. We have to do whatever Dear Leader says, unquestioningly. Only the threat isn’t even close to what we’ve faced in the past. 1776, 1812, 1865, 1917, 1940, etc. And yes, nuclear annihilation. The threat faced in the cold war by Presidents of all parties was the gravest manmade threat ever faced by anyone in the history of the world. In fact, it still is.

Read UTI, your free thought forum

by DarkSyde on Mon Jul 16, 2007 at 06:53:41 PM PDT

[ Parent ]
#
That makes sense. (2+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
DarkSyde, indycam

But at the time, wasn’t the probability of such an exchange pretty low? Given that the USSR was basically unraveling… Or do I need to do some reading?

Impeach!

by Potus2020 on Mon Jul 16, 2007 at 07:00:28 PM PDT

[ Parent ]
*
I don’t (2+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Potus2020, kurt

know how to rate the probability, but my guess would neither the USSR or us wanted it to happen, sure. But unravleing or not, the USSR was quite capable of making reliable missiles tipped with nukes. If those missiles launched, they would have worked.

Read UTI, your free thought forum

by DarkSyde on Mon Jul 16, 2007 at 07:24:09 PM PDT

[ Parent ]
*
You got it . (3+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
sharman, Potus2020, kurt

reagan was whacked , a wimp , when the 1983 Beirut barracks bombing happened he ran . He cut and ran .
Latter he traded arms with iran , the people behind the Beirut barracks bombing . reagan was a treasonous sob .

http://www.washingtonpost.com/…
The existence of the five leather-bound volumes embossed with a gold presidential seal was not a secret. Key entries were quoted in the press during the investigation into the Iran-contra arms sale controversy in the mid-1980s: “I agreed to sell TOWs to Iran” — Jan. 17, 1986.

Are in their 20s (if that). They simply do not remember, or have any concept of, how shockingly close we were to near-world destruction. For all Reagan’s downsides (and they’re significant), he (1) made people belive in America again, and (2) really, honestly, historically, demonstrably helped save the fucking planet. No, it wasn’t JUST him, but he sure as hell played a major role, and deserves a hell of a lot of credit.

know the feeling. I posted a simple diary on Redstate concerning Young Earth Creationism, which initiated a flame war, and which got me banned in about two hours flat. The GOP that I once admired, shit, it just doens’t exist any more. I can write stuff like I did above, saying nice things about Reagan or Bush 1, right here an the supposed fringe left premium site, and out of the handful disagreeing responses, I haven’t come across one yet that is inflammatory or cross, and all of them make valid points. If I even breathed a kind word about Mr. or Mrs. Clinton on most any redsite, it would be nuclear war. That party, at least nationally, is being run by fundie posers and chicken-hawks, which might be tolerable if they were at least competent. I hope locals like you prevail my friend.

Read UTI, your free thought forum

by DarkSyde on Mon Jul 16, 2007 at 08:04:53 PM PDT

That is because DK IS a GOP.2 site….

I am still wondering what is so great about a man who announced his campaign on the murder site of 3 civil rights protesters.

I’m afraid I also have to admit to liking Reagan (4+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
mrblifil, The Termite, DarkSyde, gatorbot

I’m shocked to read your support for him, I must admit. But I suspect quite a few progressives who were politically conscious during the Reagan years secretly admire the man.

Look, you can cherrypick all sorts of issues to make any President sound like a monster. Should we start with Clinton? Womanizing gay-betraying felon-pardoning egomaniac much? But it doesn’t mean individual actions make someone a bad President. It’s the collective weight of substance and action that defines legacy. Clinton, on balance, was a very, very good President. Bush II, on balance, has been a disaster.
The reason I defend Reagan to my similarly liberal friends is because he was almost singlehandedly responsible for a rebirth in loving America and believing in the future of this remarkable nation. As I do, as we all should. Yes, he was wrong on many things, as all Presidents are. But ON BALANCE, I was proud to be an American when he was my President. That’s why so many of us like Obama, and are thrilled/ecstatic for the chance to vote for him in a general election — he makes the average guy remember and realize how amazing this place is that we call home. He inspires us to be better than ourselves. AND, unlike Reagan, he’s on the right side of nearly ALL issues important to me (not just some).

by cartwrightdale on Mon Jul 16, 2007 at 08:38:23 PM PDT

Yes, he brought back respectability back to bigotry and racism for white Americans.

‘Night Lucid, sorry about another old place in NY disappearing … that is sad!

Catnip, I saw only about 10 operatives in that diary at most. And the rest were mostly people I never saw before. I got the feeling they just posted to let him know how they feel.

What a lot of people are doing, is focusing on their own Reps in their districts to get them to sign Kucinich’s bill. He has 14 signed on with one more who is being pressured by his constituents and is probably going to sign.

Our Rep here has not signed the bill so this past weekend I went to lunch with a friend who is very active in politics and has loads of contacts to see about joining with others and going to see our Rep., emailing him, faxing and calling etc. Sometimes they don’t even know there’s a bill. On Sunday I was invited to another party, and that was in Sag Harbor, where I met others who know a lot of people and who are pretty liberal. People are getting organized around the country.

Feingold is right about it being up to citizens. But to be honest, even if we got Impeachment started, these Republicans would not vote to convict this crowd even they were shown video of them eating babies. I don’t think we’ve ever had a situation like this before. Not to mention some of the Dems. I want badly to see them thrown out of office. I don’t how it can be done, though. Still, we have to keep demanding it.
.
Gonzales, that ought to be easy enough.

WASHINGTON — President Bush shocked Capitol Hill staffers and Republican leaders Monday when he crashed a meeting at the White House to deliver a blunt message that he wasn’t backing down on Iraq and Republicans need to understand that.

“It was stunning,” said one GOP aide who attended the meeting. “We couldn’t believe he came in.”

“We kept looking at each other, amazed he came in,” said another Republican aide.

Bush was described as folksy, adamant and mildly profane as he interrupted the meeting between senior White House communications staffers Tony Snow and Ed Gillespie and GOP leaders. His message: the policy on Iraq isn’t changing. He is not backing down and no one on Capitol Hill should be confused into thinking he is letting up.

I know that. I just wonder what the angry kossacks are actually doing. It reminds me of the immigration protests – being organized by “ordinary” people while kossacks seemed to be totally oblivious. They really need to stop calling themselves “activists”.

Professionals at DK. Yesterday when Reid took his “stand” against the Republicans it wasn’t diaried. They waited and waited. Nada. No real user gave a shit, so one of ’em had to do a FP story about it. The story was followed immediately by a chorus of emphatic praise, but it still didn’t grow legs. Real readers knew it was just more crumbs, so they didn’t bother.

There is some hope to be found in that vignette, it’s another example that they can make things look a certain way, but they can’t make people believe it.

* [new] So, wingers are OK and can make the rec. list. (0 / 0)
However, if you have been a loyal Democrat for 30 years and are fed up and pissed off by their DLC and corporate ownership (even maybe voted for Nader, once, ewwwww) then you are a troll and don’t belong here? The double standards in this place are incredible, but I don’t know what can or should be done about it, if anything at all. Wonder how many of the people who rec’d the winger’s diary (I haven’t read it)are the same people who troll Kosters who are plain fed up with the Democrats.

I dunno. I saw yesterday that mcjoan said, this attack is Rupert. LOL And now Kos (fp weigh in from Greece):

Of course Fox News is pissed that we killed their Democratic debates while just about the entire party leadership and presidential candidates will be at YearlyKos. So they send their pit bull to attack. And his minions have responded.

I jsut think acquiring the wsj is a lot bigger than swatting flies.. I don’t think traffic is everything, to me the sites are used as tps and choke points, nevertheless, numbers are down across the so called “liberal” blogs.

* [new] We need to relax standards for TUs… (2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:G2geek, edsbrooklyn
…and give more TRs per day to prepare for the coming onslaught as the 2008 primary campaign heats up.

The community moderation features of this blog have succeeded in part because trolls have been few and far between. We’ve been able to deal with them by simply posting recipes and having a few people TR them.

Markos, who is a master at building online communities, needs to be proactive on this one.

There is no evidence of massive voter fraud by Democrats. There is ample evidence of attempts to repress the vote by Republicans.

by DC Pol Sci on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 10:56:08 AM EDT

Uh, yeah… user 3294, you remember the ‘troll wars’. Then again he thinks ‘Markos is a master at building online communities’…

[B]ut while Sheehan has no chance of beating the House speaker, she might be able to inflict some serious damage on the Democratic Party. As the leading voice of a nationwide anti-war movement, Sheehan has become a darling of more than a few left-wing liberals — a core voting bloc for Democrats.

If she takes on Pelosi, Sheehan could cause a splintering among party liberals that might spread across the nation.

Impeachment should be treated as a serious matter — and not a means of settling political scores. It shouldn’t be used to resolve a policy dispute.

As misguided as I think the president was in ordering an invasion of Iraq — and as wrong as I think he is to keep U.S. troops immersed in Iraq’s civil war — I don’t think his bad acts rise to the level of an impeachable offense.

The war in Iraq has caused this nation enough needless suffering.

Trying to impeach Bush, with what we currently know about his actions, would be an unnecessary act of national self-flagellation.

[omigod: “unnecessary act of national self-flagellation” — Mcat]

If she wants to be a serious actor in the effort to end the Iraq war, Cindy Sheehan has to do a better job of picking her targets — and focusing her rage.

Well I wanna personally thank DeWayne… he did sum up and hand us the language of their fear.

Also, The Dems have in hand the numbers and the internal struggle, more than I can ever know, what the struggle was to hold the mayor’s office here in ’03. Gonzales ran only near the end, a 2 month campaign, and the Dems had to really struggle against a former Green, running as an Ind.

It is not that Sheehan can win, it is that she commands national attention – and would necessarily open debate, open the language… The Dems like keeping SF a political backwater, held tight to the chest. That chest with no heart inside the rib cage..

Maybe Kos struck a deal with Rupert to shore up sagging page hits so he could sell some ads?

Lucid, that’s exactly what I was thinking – don’t forget who Kos’ best friend is. The guy who got in trouble with the SEC for scamming people online.

There is nothing honest about that site, except for some of the commenters.

But you’re right, their numbers continue to fall so why not do what Rupert does, start a public fight with someone, or have them start it.

O’Reilly’s is just an act, infotainment, if they pay him, he’ll perform. Same thing with kos and his partner, Jerome Armstrong.

Eugene believes that people should be banned, not just from sites but from the ‘public square’! Iow, if he throws you off his site, you should be off the internet.

Fortunately they are blip on the radar screen. Most people in the real world never heard of them.

But it is kind of appropriate that they should invite Fox viewers to the site. I thought there were quite a few there already, or at least imitators of Fox viewers. Many original Freepers are on Fox, like Hannity and Tony Snow eg.

And DK is the mirror image of Freerepublic with the same ambitions, to make it career-wise as did Fox’s Freepers. I prefer people whose main reason for being online is to do something about this country, not to promote themselves by using the situation we are in. And that is what Kos has done, he’s an opportunist who is pretty dumb and ignorant. But obviously he got help with this blog of his and he refuses to say how much, so we are left to speculate.

LaRouche ….. Some of you may have seen me posting some snips to larouchepac.org. Lat week I became interested in LaRouche again because it was one of the invectives hurled at Sheehan. A strange one too IMO since you really don’t hear about him. Reading over some of the stories my opinion became because the LYM has been showing prominant Dems and bringing up things in public they dont want to talk about. Both Dean and Clinton got visits recently. Maybe I am too cynical but I think the word is kind of trickling down that the LaRouchians and there impeachment porn have to be stomped out. I also didnt get the impression that LaRouche was FAR left either unless you consider SDI some peacenic proposal.

well remember for a year or more there was all that controversy over MySpace. Lordy. “WIll my child be damaged by MySpace?” “Are there predators on MySpace”? Mothers and daughters on cable shows “discussing” MySpace.

Once I knew RUpert owned it, it all became clear. Ad Ware, all of it.

Course it is the middle of the summer for O’Reilly and Kos is easy pickins’…

I agree. LYM are agitators, no question about it… but they are noisy when they get going and, truly awful as they are, the Dems want to keep a lid on a lot of “stuff”.

The panic over possible impeachment hearings it intense. What I think is there is a deal, if not for the WH – a deal of the old game of “mutually assured destruction”. If the Dems were EVER to proceed to impeachment, the R machine, the hard right machine, the winger conservative coffers, the hard core winger law firms and elves and all that entails open up and we have political nuclear winter.

Last month when I was trapped in the 1930’s I caught O’R’s radio show a few times. I think people would be surprised how often his callers actually challenge him on his facts/predictions/analyisis. Bill comes up with the lamest excuses. I really dont think the “right” takes him very seriously anymore. “

Rev – I don’t know if you are familar with Larouche’s history, but he is actually a fascist. His supporters went around physically brutalizing economic leftists in the ’60’s and ’70’s – and in fact I personally had a run in with a rather nasty Larouchite after I made a joke about their rabid reborn cult in an article for Counterpunch back in 2002. From “Right Wing Populism in America”:

Beginning in the 1970s, the LaRouchites combined populist antielitism with attacks on leftists, environmentalists, feminists, gay men and lesbians, and organized labor. They advocated a dictatorship in which a “humanist” elite would rule on behalf of industrial capitalists. They developed an idiosyncratic, coded variation on the Illuminati Freemason and Jewish banker conspiracy theories. Their views, though exotic, were internally consistent and rooted in right-wing populist traditions….

He also used to run ‘brain-washing’ summer youth camps in northern Virginia that were also money-laundering fronts [why he went to jail]…

I still say that the “Impeachment off the table” is part and parcel of the “Handover Deal”. That was pretty evident when Dobson was sent out to torpedo McCains campaign…. and they dried up his money sending in a guy who plays a GOP on teevee…. kinda reminds you of what Hill and Bill did to Deans campaign sending in Clark to drain the swamp of libruls.

Bill has spent the last three years surgically glued to the hip of papa… it is clear the deal laid out…. “Okay, Hilliary can be president…. just don’t send my boy to jail”…. oh and btw pro choice is off the table and she has to pray…. alot.

reading that “reagan was great made us believe in america” bullshit was vomit-inducing. anybody parroting that crap either was a baby when reagan was prez or is still a repub at heart. (and i always suspected darksyde was one)

A lot of us mainstream liberals (0 / 0)
have been far left when we were teenagers. Honestly a lot of us find the far left position childish and immature. Not very nice, but that’s how it is.

The far right is not only ignorant, but also evil. Alas the far right is worse, but still the far left is more frustrating because they have decent values but haven’t been thinking and living enough to see through some of the fringe bullshit (like isolationism as a foreign policy doctrine).

62% of independents, 58% of men and 47% of women say they would not consider voting for her…

by Joe B on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 12:36:02 PM EDT

And now for some good old-fashioned condescension!

Yes, we leftists are so childish that we just cannot see that global capitalism is good for everyone! Three cheers for the return of feudalism! Three cheers for corporate control of political institutions! Three cheers for a decimated environment! That globalism is sure great! I’m so glad, Joe B, that you removed the scales of youth from my eyes.

pretty funny a lot of the comments are of the “i trust moderate republicans more than far left democrats” — but no twoll hunters on the scene to scream DEMOCRATS! FAQ!

yearlykos should be a disaster of epic proportions. i hope hillary still ends up going tp provetheir allegiance to proto-dems. you can bet hillary has a “pull the plug” option if she thinks it would be problematic to attend.

Tell me about it ms_x. When I was a kid I was a social justice christian/mainstream Democrat. When I was in my teens I flirted with some sort of hippie/marxist blend of things & became an atheist. While in college I started to lose faith in the system entirely & became a staunch anti-nationalist. Then in grad school I really became a true anarcho-syndicalist. So actually, as my knowledge of history, philosophy & politics grew, I became radicalized, not the other way around.

lucid, will copping to having had an Utne subscription in my late Twenties get me banned ? Also, I got all teary-eyed when Gore’s first book came out and he spoke on NPR. I was well-trained back in those days. Everyone assured me that the Good Life would just keep rolling once Daddy Clinton was in, and who was I to argue ?

Here’s a dollar, Revisionist. Lunch for everyone at the Automat. It’s on me. [channelling the spirit of my late Dad:] I just hope they’ve got some raisin pie left. 😀

Besides the Rasmussen poll cited above by PhillyGal, the reason Reagan will have a positive legacy is that he benefited from two things:

1. a vastly improved economy, when Reagan entered office we had terrible stagflation (coupled with high unemployment and interest rates) and thanks to Volker, that problem was nipped in the bud and the vast majority of Americans reaped great economic rewards for the rest of Reagan’s presidency. (I guess this person forgets that the “homeless” was resurrected under Reagan … not used since the Depression.)

2. Nothing happened. Reagan had a relatively uneventful presidency. No wars (other than Granada), no major international crisis, and other than the very short lived market crash in 1987, no economic crisis either after 1982.

Thus, as long as those who were aware (ie 18+ years old) during the Reagan presidency are alive, he will be remembered well. 150 years from now Reagan will slip into the mediocrity of lesser known presidents, as he really has no defining moment.

The Los Angeles settlement dwarfs other landmark payouts. The Archdiocese of Boston, where the U.S. scandal erupted in 2002, reached a 2003 deal for 550 people worth $85 million.

Boston’s archbishop, Cardinal Bernard Law, was forced to resign in disgrace (actually he just went to the Vatican) in December 2002. (Yes, then Ratzinger honored him by allowing him to publically participating in Pope John Paul’s funeral)

Leaders of the U.S. Catholic Church were found to have moved priests who abused minors to new parishes instead of defrocking them or reporting them to authorities.

In his interview with Vatican Radio, Lombardi spoke of the “sacrifices” the settlement would impose on the archdiocese.

The settlement funds will come from the archdiocese selling real estate assets, including the archdiocese’s headquarters, insurers and various Catholic religious orders.

Before his election as pope, then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger went out on a limb to decry the “filth” in the Church.

Benedict, who was elected in 2005, has taken a tougher stand on sexual abuse in the Church than his predecessor. Last year he disciplined Rev. Marcial Maciel Degollado, the 86-year-old founder of the conservative Legionaries of Christ, who had been accused of sexually abusing boys decades ago.

Here is the real reason why the BBC is being dismantled. They documented how Ratzinger was dictating how of ALL of the pedophilia cases should be covered and how under his leadership and from his office he set decrees and rules on how to avoid the priest be held accountable…. it was ALL OF RATZINGER’S doing for over 30 years.

Lol, ‘no wars’ – under Reagan! As long as people are willing to remain ignorant, ‘he will be remembered well’ and as long as the media and radical right make sure the truth is never told, true, he will be remembered well. But to see such ignorance on a ‘progressive’ site is stunning really.

All these labels, ‘far left’ and ‘far right’ are bs anyway, they are meant to divide people. Once you have the labels, all you need are two boxes to slap them on.

It is not ‘far’ anything, it is about ‘right’ and ‘wrong’! So is believing the following ‘far left’ or ‘far right’?

1) It’s wrong for the government to lie about reasons for going to war to scare the public into supporting it.

2) It’s wrong to kill people in foreign countries in order to steal their resources.

3) It’s wrong under any circumstances to torture people.

4) It’s wrong to mix religion and government

5) It’s right to provide health-care for everyone, not just for those who can afford it.

6) The death-penalty is wrong. Our judicial system is about justice not revenge.

7) It’s wrong to try to inflict one’s own beliefs re abortion etc on others whether it is to say abortion is either right or wrong.

8) It’s right to provide for the elderly, the disabled and children.

9) Mandatory sentencing is wrong.

10) the drug laws need to be repealed. They have become more of a threat than the original problem. Drug and alcohol use is a personal decision so long as it does not harm anyone else.

11)It is wrong to give up a single freedom out of fear. Terrorism should be dealt with as a crime.

12) It is wrong not to prosecute and hold accountable, presidents and all other elected officials when they break the law.

Probably someone should set up a poll asking ‘is this right or wrong’ at dk. Anyway, there’s probably a lot more but that’s how I feel about a few of the issues that imo, determine what kind of society we want to live in. I do not want to live in a society that does not care about people. And now I feel that’s where I am living and I object!

Wrong = Whatever challenges the divine right of Democrats and two-party hegemony. Any Democrat. Either party.

End of story on that. Have I mentioned lately how much DK threads make my teeth hurt. “ablington,” or whatever the born-again ex-Nader voter’s name is and his/her ongoing plea for mercy is an especially nauseating touch. See ? I’ve learned. I’ll be good. Don’t hurt me. His/her comrades in Orange ? They don’t appear to have learned anything at all. Except that if you bully people enough, eventually they’ll kowtow, because they hate the threat of ostracism almost as much as they hate ostracism itself.

I remember the year and 1/2 I took off between high school and college in the mid-80s. I was applying for all kinds of BS jobs to get my parents off my back. To make nearly minimum wage I had to agree to show I had registered for the draft, hand over a sample of urine, take a polygraph and agree to a background check. If you said “Hey, this is a bit extreme to be a retail slave” you were branded a wacko who had something to hide and who would never have a job.

As females, you probably didnt have to deal with the draft thing. Government wonks would start harrassing your parents if you hadnt signed up.

And that was Carter’s legacy, Revisionist. Good luck getting anyone on those free-floating idiot threads to admit it, though. Just like they’ll never acknowledge the Sainted O’Neill’s eager co-conspiring to bring us the War On Drugs.

Nowadays, any attempt to discuss the connivance of Democrats with Republicans is to be stuffed in the “ahistorical” box. The sophisticated-sounding way of saying “Nyah nyah, I can’t hear you !!! Nyah !!” Thanks, Amanda !

At least nowadays, just about anyone who applies for any low-wage job has to pee in a jar. So score one for gender-equity and the joys of “voluntary service !” [snerk] Maybe Marcotte will give this concept an entire long-winded chapter in her doubtless long-winded tome. Right between the chapter about Nerd Chic and IPods and the other chapter about Nerd Chic and IPods.

Rev – in Indiana, I don’t think I could register to vote until I’d registered for the draft, so my Dad was riding my butt to register with the selective service because no son of his would not be registered to vote. And as for the retail world – while working as a bag boy at a supermarket in 1989, I was asked to cut my hair when it got about an inch below the collar – I told them no. They told me [though I was one of their better emplyees] I would be fired if I didn’t. I quit. And at Target, I didn’t even get past the psychological profile test – guess they thought I was a burgeoning criminal or something. Of course I did have a 4.0 GPA and got into every university I applied to save Princeton!

#110 — Back in the 90’s I walked out of job interviews if they had any kind of test. I have had to let some integrity go the past few years. I had to take a 6 page psych test a while back when I was hoping to work the register at a local Blockbuster video.

I had to take a 6 page psych test a while back when I was hoping to work the register at a local Blockbuster video.

This sort of thing is so appalling. Needing a license to perform surgery, I can accept. Needing to take a ridiculous invasive psychological profile test to work in movie rental? – I think the HR profession is now collectively on crack.

To Delaware Dem – check D. Throat’s post #119, re your request to have Cindy Sheehan banned because despite the fact that she did more to get Dems elected in 2006 than anyone else by exposing Bush for what he was, not to mention she has a personal stake in seeing those who are the cause of her son’s death brought to justice, all it took to get you to want her banned, was that she insulted a political party, your party. If you don’t see the complete unimportance of that in light of the enormous wrongs she is trying to correct, I do not know what to say!

I will look forward to your diary, and I fully expect that most will agree with me, how can they not?

However if you include in your poll this question …..

Would you support a Democrat who has voted against legislation that would have ensured any of the above rights for all Americans? Yes or No

…… we will see the dis-connect between saying you support what is ‘right’ and acting on it. And because, like spoiled children, career politicians pay no price for voting against the interests of the American people, we are nowhere near achieving the kind of society you say you and the majority of kossacks would agree they want.

The truth is too many Demcorats have voted against the interests of the American people and because of Party Loyalty they have no reason to fear consequences from the people they work for.

This is what I object to on daily kos. Democrats ‘right or wrong’. And the stupidity of telling them in advance that no matter what they do (see 12 Senate Dems who voted for the MCA) they ‘will get my vote’!

Do you not see that you cannot say you support a decent society and at the same time vote for indecent politicians?

Cindy Sheehan agrees with all the above also …. she insulted the Democratic Party … she has also insulted the Republican Party. 58% of Americans now say they want a third party.

You asked for her to be banned – if she was wrong in her statements about the party, why not point out what errors you believed she made? Why ignore everything else about her? If you cannot see how extreme your reaction is then you are willfully blind.

Part of my ‘decent’ society would also include taking into account a person’s overall contributions to that society. In Sheehan’s case, and maybe you have forgotten the atmophere in the country when she took a stand against this administration, I will not forget what it meant to see someone stand up and ask what the media refused to ask ‘What is this war all about, really George and please, don’t lie. What is the noble cause’?

I’m paraphrasing, but that’s what the cowards in DC (Democrats especially, from whom we expected more) and the US Media were too afraid to ask. And then the rest of the country felt free to ask also. She woke them up. You don’t have to like her to see how important her contribution was to changing the perception of this adminsitration.

Yet, Daily Kos went ballistic because of an insult against the Dem Party, right or wrong that does not warrant silencing her. It warrants discussion. If she turns out to be wrong, she could and probably would apologize.

But in my decent society which is about ‘right and wrong’ rather than ‘left and right’ Daily Kos’ record of ganging up on and driving off the site, thousands of Democrats, Liberals and Progressives, is just plain wrong. And, btw, I’m not in favor of driving away conservatives either. I am in favor of educating people not ‘mocking and shaming’ them, nor labelling them with the de-humanizing tags simply because of differences of opinion! .

And that is why I am discussing this with you, despite how I abhor your behavior on that site, you are too a human being who just might be persuaded to change their views, those that are imo, wrong. Yeah, I know, I’m probably way too optiminstic …. but if this country is ever to be ‘taken back’ as everyone likes to say, the methods used on Daily Kos will not do it. Because they are no different than those used on rightwing sites Daily Kos claimed to so despise.

Mx xeno, #107 – I can’t tell you how I love your honesty and ability to get right to the point, and your righteous outrage! Btw, I still have to email re an idea I have for a collage. I’ve been running around, especially all weekend, but will be off tomorrow so I’ll email if that’s okay …

Revisionist and Lucid, I must be very lucky because I wasn’t even aware of such tests, and for such menial jobs. How demeaning, and I think we can blame Reagan and his drug laws for that also. Good for you for refusing, no job is worth being treated like a criminal for. What an abuse of Constitutional rights. This is why they want everythign privatized. So they can skirt the Constitution by claiming, as Kos does, ‘you have no 1st, 4th etc rights here. This is a private business’.

SB – ya make me smile

Lucid, you make me smile also, because after spending a year at dk, I began to think they had managed to so demonize anyone who had ideals that maybe people had begun to believe it was a bad thing. Same goes for everyone who posts here … I’ve had more smiles reading this site than any other place on the internets!

**********

Catnip, lol, sorry about our reputation (re my post about the comments in Feingold’s diary). I will now return to our regularly scheduled bashing of all things Kos. What the comments did show, and there were nearly 2000 of them, was that there is a big difference between the ‘administration’ and members of the site and all the bullying and thuggery is no longer effective because the issues far outweigh the ‘rules’ of any blog.

There are good people still posting there … and despite the feeble attempts of the usual suspects to temper the outrage of the people, they just couldn’t do it. They are losing their power and that began last fall when they underestimated the American people’s anger towards this government and thought they could control it, in their naive ignorance. They became too enamoured of the notion of having ‘access’ and none of us give a damn about their personal ambitions or Kos’ livlihood, which is probably a shock to them! Lol!

But not to worry, from what I can see, I think our reputation is intact. I think we are still ‘liars’ – ‘a den of vipers’ -‘clit-lickers’ etc. Lol! Or are they saying nice things about us now? Rotfl, I doubt it! I hope not, because that would make all our new products to be sold in our Big Tent Boutique, worthless!

Banning people who have shed more blood than you in the fight will not bring one vote your way. Stop working against progress. Stop your infantile obsession with banning, mojo, tu status and thought control.

And answer the unanswerable:

What did you say about Kos bashing Harold Ford election week?

What did you say about Kos pimping Chevron while they were actively campaigning against Democratic bills?

So.

At Thursday's debate, Senators Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren defended their Medicare for All plan. They faced criticism from several rivals, including Senator Amy Klobuchar, who described it as a "bad idea," and South Bend Mayor Pete Buttigieg, who claimed the bill shows Sanders and Warren do not "trust the American people."

At the third presidential primary debate in Houston, Texas, senator and 2020 candidate Elizabeth Warren called for the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Afghanistan. Warren also spoke about her stance on U.S. trade policy and how "our trade policy in America has been broken for decades."

After being questioned about the crisis in Venezuela, Senator Bernie Sanders defended his vision of democratic socialism. "I agree with what goes on in Canada and in Scandinavia: guaranteeing healthcare to all people as a human right. I believe that the United States should not be the only major country on Earth not to provide paid family and medical le […]

Debate moderator Jorge Ramos of Univision grilled former Vice President Joe Biden over the Obama administration's deportation record. Biden refused to answer whether he did anything to prevent Obama from deporting a record 3 million people.

A U.S. House of Representatives panel on Friday demanded internal emails, detailed financial information and other company records from top executives of Amazon.com Inc., Facebook Inc, Apple Inc, and Alphabet Inc's Google, widening the antitrust probe of Big Tech.

U.S. Senator and Democratic presidential candidate Kamala Harris on Friday asked a government watchdog to look into the Trump administration's decision to launch an antitrust probe into four automakers cooperating with California on tighter greenhouse gas emissions limits that Trump is trying to eliminate.

A lawyer for former FBI official Andrew McCabe pressed U.S. prosecutors on Friday to drop their politically sensitive case against him, citing reports that suggest they may be having trouble securing criminal charges.

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from Howl

I'm with you in Rockland
where we wake up electrified out of the coma
by our own souls' airplanes roaring over the
roof they've come to drop angelic bombs the
hospital illuminates itself imaginary walls collapse
O skinny legions run outside O starry
spangled shock of mercy the eternal war is
here O victory forget your underwear we're free
I'm with you in Rockland
in my dreams you walk dripping from a sea-
journey on the highway across America in tears
to the door of my cottage in the Western night

October 7 1955

"a remarkable collection of angelson one stage reading their poetry"
"I think Allen Ginsberg standing up there reading - putting himself on the line - was one of the two bravest things I've ever seen. Remember, it was '55. People had crew cuts, and they looked at you like you were misplaced cannon fodder. The country was being run by Luce publications. It was a dangerous, cold, ugly time, and it was scary. . .
In all our memories no one had been so outspoken in poetry before. We had gone beyond a point of no return. None of us wanted to go back to the grey, chill, militaristic silence, to the intellectual void - to the land without poetry - to the spiritual drabness. We wanted to make it new and we wanted to invent it and the process of it as we went into it. We wanted voice and we wanted vision."
-Michael McClure

Democrats…

Same as goddam fucking forever.
Over and over, in election year after election year, GE and MidTerms both… the Dems start to purr and preen, they stretch luxuriously - at just being TOLD they are going to win [...]
It never fails.
... in February of 2002, looking over the already joyless congressional stragglers willing to be drafted for duty… they barely dreamed, yet, it was even possible (Howard, a different person then, had not arrived to say it could be done)… but one thing was clear, we could not rely on the party to swing it. Could not. You could smell it, they would screw the deal. And I am not talking about Howard and primary issues here. By the end, that was a passing political story. Chuck it on the heap.
[...]
Upshot? The Republicans make it thru. They hold on.