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“Warning–consuming these images will likely make you view your wife, girlfriend, significant other, daughter, sister, female colleagues, or any random female person in public as a sex object for you to use and abuse.”bypisaquaririse

This post comes from a comment I made at Heart’s regarding sex tort law where Marco Randazza, porn industry lawyer as he accepts, makes a very common case for his First Amendment Crusades (comment section).

I am so shameless that I thought the comment deserved its own post. Not because I am brilliant (the gossip mill tells me so!) but because I think I may have addressed the issue in a way which I haven’t before and I do feel it’s worth repeating.

Mr. Randazza’s comments are quoted. I have copy/pasted directly.

“I’d ask you to show me the “harm” that any of my adult entertainment clients have “inflicted” upon anyone.” &

“in the battle to protect free expression.”

I never tire of my own dismay at these attitudes.

First of all, free expression does not exist. Expression does not exist without a cost–we really need to stop using this phrase, it is harmful in and of itself. Abusive even. We remove too much of our critical sensibilities with the idea of “free” and thus violators and abusers can move covertly in and out of our lives whilst committing sizable damage we can no more account for than understand.
The question of expression’s costs, as far as “harm” is concerned, really becomes: at whose expense?

And the question of expense, afaic, is one of the most unique aspects of porn’s role in people’s lives. Because, typically, we measure the harm of a product or service on the end user–or porn user in this case. And while there *is* evidence of porn’s measurable effect on the brain (or, for those more skeptical, please visit any University Marketing Department where students study how to affect people’s buying habits with *images*), the real *harm* can be seen in the True end user: the person on whom the porn viewer uses to act out their porn viewing habits. This of course, comes full circle as the industry continues to force girls and women into pornography to satiate the porn users’ demand. This harm is absolutely *immeasurable*: violence, rape, death.

But see we don’t even have the first end user covered. How often must we hear from a porn producer “I just make the porn”? That’s certainly not the full story. We would not accept from from a pharmacist “I just fill the prescription.” No, there is well known and accounted for legal recourse one may take if their medicine negatively affects their body (especially if the effects are not mentioned as a possibility in taking the medication). Porn producers saying “I make scenes and images that affect the porn user’s sexuality” is more accurate. And yet porn comes with no warning label: “Warning–consuming these images will likely make you view your wife, girlfriend, significant other, daughter, sister, female colleagues, or any random female person in public as a sex object for you to use and abuse.”

The harm is already evident. We don’t have to go far to see how men view women’s bodies and their access to them. *What other* multi-billion dollar industry so intimately represents men’s relationship to women’s bodies as does the porn and sex industries?

At one point do we see this connection? At what point do we recognize that the acts in porn are the same as the acts women and girls are being forced/pressured/asked to do in the streets to survive, in marriages to prevent infidelity, in relationships to feel worthy?

A man coming to a woman-centered blog asking *us* to show him the harm “inflicted” (clever word to use here, as “inflicted” has implications of immediacy–as if porn’s harm is the equivalent to poking someone in the eye) reeks of more privilege than I can express.

Mr. Randazza, if you have any honest intentions to understand the expenses, the costs, the harms of pornography use on society I would urge you reconsider your not returning and hang around a while.

I really, really think that porn should have that warning label on it, I love it!

Of course, that would require people to admit that it is actually harmful. Which it obviously is, if you aren’t a stupid moron.

Yeah, gotta love (I mean hate) men who come to feminist blogs and say stupid, idiotic things like “ah, show me how porn hurts people!” It’s like, did ya not read the 47 kazillion previous posts where people (women) talk about how porn has harmed them? Oh, you missed that, did you asshole?

Buggle, I LOVE the language you used in that comment. I wish I had the confidence. Keep it up!

“the real *harm* can be seen in the True end user: the person on whom the porn viewer uses to act out their porn viewing habits.”

Exactly, 100% right and spot on. For a man to see the real damage, he would have to cut through his privilige and assume that his experience doesn’t count. As I often say, pornographers don’t have to sleep with men who consume pornography, WOMEN DO. And the result:

“At what point do we recognize that the acts in porn are the same as the acts women and girls are being forced/pressured/asked to do in the streets to survive, in marriages to prevent infidelity, in relationships to feel worthy?”

Ask any dude if you can pee on his face. Provided he’s not into that fetish, he’ll likely tell you to go fuck yourself. And yet, because of porn, women across the world are being asked to let men ejaculate on them. There’s one fairly harmful effect being “inflicted.” I suppose I could go on, but I don’t think I need to.

I’d ask you to show me the “harm” that any of my adult entertainment clients have “inflicted” upon anyone.

Criminy, criminy, criminy.
Watch one or your horrific clients horrific products, Mr torture isn’t torture when you get your rocks off on it if you want to see some harm.
Men hate you, yes they do, and this is the sort of menz that shakes my humanity to the core and makes me want to hate them right back.
What harm? What harm? No decent human being would even have to ask such an inhumane question. Half the population, you vile creature, half the population of the world is being harmed by you and your ilk.

Ok let’s start from the premise that I have a bit of a yen to do some gardening. But I know little or nothing about it, so I pick up a gardening magazine – this shows me in explicit full colour pictures of loovely gardens and tells you how to achieve them. Am I more or less likely to want to garden after this experience?

Now imagine that I am a non specifically pervy male, with a kind of vague desire for some abusive sex. So I watch some porn, which shows me in explicit (and arousing) detail images of woman abuse. Am I more or less likely to want to abuse a woman after this experience?

Yes Mr Lawyer, it is impossible to show that pervert X would not have raped someone if he hadn’t watched porn. It’s not a simple cause and effect – you watch porn you commit rape, you don’t watch porn, you don’t commit rape. But study after study has shown that men’s attitudes towards women change after they have been shown porn.

Pisaquaririse, you are freaking brilliant. Yes, I want that label put on porn!

“For a man to see the real damage, he would have to cut through his privilige and assume that his experience doesn’t count.”

So this is my own little opinion on a common sentiment, but while that word “privilege” does indeed describe the phenomenon of a male-centric culture, it never addresses the part where we acknowlege that men DON’T CARE if their behavior hurts those they claim to love. Apologies for screaming.

There’s clueless privilege, and then there’s indifferent privilege. Men have been exposed to so much feminist theory by now that they no longer have the excuse of being merely clueless. And since it isn’t like they have to go across town to find a woman (they probably have one in their kitchen), they have zero reason to be uninterested in the lives of their loved ones — unless they JUST DON’T CARE.

“As I often say, pornographers don’t have to sleep with men who consume pornography, WOMEN DO.”

[…] Now, sit back and enjoy the show as Pisaquari of Buried Alive wipes the floor with a troll, who bleated about “free (yawn) expression” as he asserted his right to abuse women, in Warning: Consuming these images will likely make you view your wife, girlfriend, significant other,… […]

Warning: Viewing this you are hereby, committing Felony Rape, which is a Crime.

I’ve been thinking on this issue of the Free Expression/Speech argument that pro-porn advocates use and I think somewhere in that whole debate the root of the matter gets lost. A man goes out and purchases a video or magazine that portrays a woman being Raped which is a CRIME. He is then a participant in that Crime, the Spatial differences do not matter, because his intent is to participate in the crime of Rape. If I, see a friend murder someone, across the street and I have knowledge of this and I do not call the police, I can be charged with Felony Murder which in some states holds more penalty that Murder in the First Degree does [juveniles included].

If a man purchases a film online that is depicting a woman being raped then he is a Felony Rapist.

It is NOT about free expression or free speech, and we need to move away from that argument because that is what I think, puts this idea in people’s mind that rape is sex. It is not, it is a Crime, and if we are ever going to see an end to this crime and the freedom of men to participate in the crime with total impunity then we need to start addressing it as such.

The come back will be surely, that we view violence every day on the media, etc., and would we all be Felony “”, my answer to that would be no, because while violence is viewed daily, there is a difference between violence after the fact, and Purchasing violence, sexual violence, after the fact, in other words, if my friend murders someone across the street, and then if I go over there and watch the dead person and laugh and so forth, it is Still Felony Murder, even more so…

because I did nothing to stop it, etc. Not only do the porn watchers do nothing to stop it, they PAY money, to be willing participants in Rape.

Great argument Tasha, I have never thought of it exactly that way, but it is a great counter-argument against the crap sex-pozs spout all the time.
My general question I would also ask is, freedom of what expression? Who’s freedom of speech? And to do/say what? The problem as well is that too often people differentiate between speech/action. Speech functions in our society. It’s an act. It acts to create/perpetuate/and reform our ideas of what’s good and bad, to articulate and actualize our world view. Speech obviously takes the form of visual media, art, words, dance, etc. So porn, with its dehumanization of women and men of color, really is hate speech, and it ACTS to reinforce misogynist and heterosexist concepts and validates misogynist and violent behavior. Porn doesn’t run in a vacuum. It functions and is a reinforcing element in a White Supremacist capitalist Patriarchy.

Yes, Porn is Hate Speech, but like other forms of Hate Speech, it is near impossible to legislate against it due to all the possibilities that can occur with censorship, etc., such as who in power defines what Hate Speech is [playing Devil’s Advocate here for a moment].

But now, too the Porn supporters [industry esp] I think use the Freedom of Expression/Speech to distract us from the real issues, such as a huge percentage of women and children who are being forced into porn, forced to be participants in porn by intimidation and often violence, and yes, many times just blatant rape.

This is something I’ve been thinking on for a while and its like men hide behind the speech argument to get by with participatory rape of a woman, or child under a legal system that does not penalize for felony rape. Same is true in gang rape cases too, where those who watch and cheer the rape on don’t get prosecuted either…

but now in cases of murder they do. Its like rape falls under this whole other standard even though, I would argue that it is a form of murder, though now arguing that would be near impossible in a legal way but well, it IS an attack on a person’s liberty, thats for sure, so like I think there are means, maybe not in getting rid of all porn but at least, violent porn in images where actual rapes are viewed, that could be, in a very legit way, addressed and even outlawed.

Take for example, what if Porn Industries had to have on a label, a disclusure that there was no actual ‘rape’ and that the actors/actresses also signed a legal validated [in front of legal witness not hired by Porn Industry] that they were not coerced or raped, etc., and had freedom to decline such violent scenes,

if there was legal mandate for such labels, that just right there, would end so much of the violent porn. Which I think would end about 75% of all porn. And if, that label of disclosure wasn’t there, and if lets say, a man was arrested with that porn in his possession, then he would or could be charged with felony rape, as well as the Porn Industry/company/individual/s who made the film.

I do think its a strategy that is well worth looking into more thoroughly because with child porn, there is that criminal code, with rape in porn, there isn’t…That needs to change.

Now while it may not get rid of the willing subjugation images and all that male fantasy porn crap–it Would at least, put that whole its only free speech argument where it belongs–in the trash.

Because then the language would change, to watching free expression/fantasy to, actually participating in the crime of rape.

Paying MONEY to participate in the act of rape, because there is so much porn that is based, on actual Rapes, and these rapes never get prosecuted and what is so sinister about it, is not only that the bastards [excuse my French] get by with raping a woman/child or gang raping her/them…the men who then go out and buy that filming of the Rape get to do it all under the cover of ‘free speech’ and there is in no way, justice in that.

Pro-Porn supporters always want to distract and focus on the free speech and fantasy and so forth, well, its like this, I can fantasize about killing someone, maybe even read a book that is about killing someone, but now,

if I go buy a film that is an actual depiction [not actors] of an actual killing then I’m just as guilty of murdering that individual because an actual murder took place for my fantasy, etc. And thats what Porn is, its a protected Industry of Rape and Murder where victims are brutally beaten, raped, gang raped, whether they are coerced into porn in the beginning with just sex scenes that build up to rape, is not the point–when they are raped, they are raped,

and the industry is allowed to RAPE with IMPUNITY AND PROTECTION UNDER THE LAW, the law that twists what is the principle of Freedom of Speech to do just that,

rape and kill. The argument of porn does harm, the reason it has little power to Change the porn industry or the Demand for Porn, more the Demand, is that there are a lot of things people can consume/watch that can do harm, horror movies, violent games, etc.,

but now where it goes into something far more than just doing desensitization of violence/causing harm is when men can pay to willingly sit there and take part in their minds of an actual rape occurring…

it would be like, me PAYING a TERRORIST to kill a Citizen, for viewing pleasure–fact is, a citizen was killed by a terrorist, I assisted in that by paying them, etc., doesn’t matter if its after the fact, there are Laws against this–

there are Laws against purchasing child porn, etc.,

there Needs to be Laws against purchasing Rape.

Again, it wouldn’t solve the entire issue around porn, but it sure would be a start–just the language in itself, would direct the issue to where it belongs, not free speech, but participation in the Crime of Rape,

In addition, lets say, we confront a porn supporter with, “so you participated in rape” and they say, well its just acting, etc.,

it wouldn’t matter because there is no way for the viewer/Participant to PROVE the scene was just acting [where the labels would come in and not many that I know of, one would think, would be Willing Participants in their own Rape/Gang Rape, etc]. So like, it wouldn’t matter if the Rape Participant by Sight-Support knew whether it was actual rape or not–

unless there is valid proof, then they are still guilty of participating in an actual Rape of a person. I strongly think no viewer of porn/violent porn should be able to ‘hide’ under that whole free speech rhetoric because simply put,

they are willing participants in rape and should be addressed as such–as rapists because thats what they are. If they don’t ask for proof that the scene is merely acted out WITHOUT COERCION then yes, they are rapists, not just people enjoying free expression…

Just the mere fact that the porn industry does NOT want to disclose a label with a legal signed permission from the so called ‘actresses/actors’ tells me right there, that yes, they are filming actual rapes and gang rapes [we know for a fact that they are, and that porn is also hugely made from trafficked women and children, actual kidnapping/gang rapes, sold via black market, I’d even go as far to say not so black market with the help of big corporate and even government help…and of course we know child porn operates in this way].

NO more should the RAPISTS AND CHILD RAPISTS though they may not be physically raping as far as using their body to rape, they are however, using their Sight, which is physical, to commit rape, and their Money–another physical act to rape. [know this could be worded better]

I really think, the anti-porn lawyers out there really need to do some comparisons between Felony Murder and Felony Rape–why there isn’t those charges and what can be done to make it law where Felony Rape is punishable by Law…

while yes, the porn industry would bring up the spatial differences–I would think, that paying Money to view actual rapes/gang rapes, spatial differences wouldn’t matter,

it wouldn’t matter if I sent money to a terrorist overseas who lets say, was killing citizens and then filming them, I’d still be punished [and rightly so] for supporting terrorism, [or same way it is with child porn]

the same needs to happen with porn. Now while it Might not do anything about the actors/actresses who Do act those scenes out, willingly, it Would do a lot, to clamp down on the trafficking/porn industry and the violent porn where the Victims were just that, Victims of Violence,

not only that–but once we were to take Porn out of the whole Free Speech/Art expression arena and put it into the Possible Crime arena–participating in CRIME of RAPE,

attitudes would I think, start to change because then its not about sexual fantasies anymore, but about people being ‘physical via paying money and visual’ participants of a Crime Industry/Crime of Rape/Gang Rape/Torture, etc. The Stigma of such,

wouldn’t be so easy to just dismiss as,

free speech.

[and I hope, really hope there is an anti-porn lawyer reading this right now…but even if not, just changing the Language in fighting violence towards women in porn, getting it out of the Twisted logic of free expression and putting it where it Needs to be–would in itself, be very Powerful].

Tasha, I think YOU should be an anti-porn lawyer 😉 You’d do a damned good job. I like the idea of comparing felony murder with felony rape, it really puts things in perspective. Yes, that whole “free speech” stuff that sex-pozs argue is BS. I think my point with the whole speech/act thing actually supports your argument: it recognizes that the creation and viewing of porn is an action in and of itself. And that those who watch the porn are paying money for and supporting the act, thus engaging in it.
Hm, the legal/signed permission thing. Well, the only thing that worries me about that, is that if these pornographers can coerce or intimidate a woman into a rape scene (actual rape), then who says they can’t intimidate or coerce her into signing a contract that says she “consented”? I just feel like the abuse and coercion would bleed into everything. And by looking at a porn, no one at all can really tell if a woman is “consenting” or not, as you yourself have pointed out. So even a signed agreement/contract wouldn’t be enough to convince me that the woman acted out the porn scene willingly.
It’s definitely something to think about.

well LOL I’m not a lawyer, but I did and still do activism, political, so not sure how much good I’d be there…although I have, throughout the years off and on worked on some theories in relations to the psychology of oppression/violence towards women and the links to mob violence and so forth.

to this regards: “Well, the only thing that worries me about that, is that if these pornographers can coerce or intimidate a woman into a rape scene (actual rape), then who says they can’t intimidate or coerce her into signing a contract that says she “consented”?”

You are correct and that Would be one of the pitfalls, and how to address that legally I don’t know, except maybe that the notary/or whoever the witness is, must by law be someone that is 1. not hired by the porn industry, etc., 2. that the notary/or witness has swore to protect the domestic laws as well as international laws, Especially in regards to that area of consent DUE to, now where we have some leverage–the rate of trafficking, and 3. that the signer/actress/actor Would have to show valid I.D. and also, Legit documents proving citizenship,

now, this too would be to prevent trafficked women/children, runaways, etc., again there could be pitfalls but I would think, if its properly done right, could do a lot to curtail the porn-rape industry.

Now, how to enforce this, nation to nation, thats a whole other ball game because even international law can’t be enforced, BUT now domestically, it can, and I think thats where like, lets say if we could Get some good feminist lawyers as well as international human rights lawyers working on this, there is So much potential in nipping so much of the rape and porn made from actual rape.

Once those laws were into place [and due to international ‘relations’, there could be much social pressure there], Then it would fall into criminal code if lets say, the porn industry OR individual, had possession of such, etc etc etc

and I think for this to work, we would not only need feminist lawyers, criminal [working against] prosecutors but also human right lawyers, especially in regards to trafficking. I think I will submit [I did make copies] of this idea to a Congresswoman that I now that Does work, in legislation on matters of trafficking, etc.,

but it would be better to have someone with knowledge of the law to draft it up, in the meantime, I have been working on research probing into the philosophy of the potential of such law, and I will add to that, eventually research into cases around felony murder and felony rape,

I know the law is really backwards when it comes to felony rape [not even sure if there is such a thing], based on the case of the gang rape of the woman in the bar in Rhode Island I believe [there was movie made about her/the rape, etc],

I know the men who stood and cheered, I don’t believe they were able to prosecute them, for lack of evidence, but don’t quote me on that, its been years since I read the case,

I’d have to set some time aside and do some research. I Do know however, in the years I researched fraternity/athletic function rapes/gang rapes [which, believe it or not, men too have been raped this way and one of the strongest voices against fraternity rapes is yes, a man, who was brutally gang raped during a hazing ritual],

anyway, the problems in prosecution there, one is the secrecy, two, is the issue of consent [the I was told she consented excuse], which sadly, has left many rapists able to walk off, free.

IF, and this is tragic, If it was, lets say only a matter of women in the country where one resides, getting laws like this would probably be near to impossible,

but with the laws more and more against trafficking, because it is a huge problem and becoming more so, there is now, at least, some political pressure, to Do something, about that end of things.

Its pathetic really that it takes those extremes for change, but I say, if you see a door, a possibility,

then by golly jump on it, know what I’m saying, because I think, when we get tangled up in the same debates, we miss those opportunities, those areas where there Could be some very powerful strategy.

Thats why, the pro-porn/pro-prostitution men and women, always want to keep the issue focused on freedom of speech and expression and sexual freedom, etc.,

takes away that focus on the other crimes that are linked to. I always say, learn from warfare, and attack their weaknesses, find them and exploit them [from strategic point of view],

but what Will be difficult, and I think very frustrating, when going at the porn industry in this way, is seeing, just how deeply embedded, not only sexism is, but geo-political racism, worldwide corruption and I think, that part, would be extremely hard–because lets not kid ourselves, its out there,

but for Free countries, meaning countries that claim Human Rights and the Rights of people, they I think, because of PR, would not want, to be exposed as nations that have continued to perpetuate on one hand, the slave industry [thats what porn is], and on the other hang, assert their fundamental goal of changing the world for a better and more democratic place, etc etc etc.

Either they are For human rights, or they are not. And it might not change much legally, but using this strategy, would do a lot I would think, to at least, stir some serious social and political consciousness on these issues.

the reason the pro-porn folks like to divert attention away from the violence, is because, if you peel the layers away from their b.s. what they really are saying, is that they don’t think there is anything wrong with Rape,

or even if it is, the targets of Rape, to them, aren’t worthy of humanity, etc., they don’t Want to come out and say that, because that would possibly cause an uproar, doubt it but, maybe,

so its easier for them to hide behind this guise, but rapist they are, misogynists and savages [thats my new adopted term word, lol], seriously though, they are savages, sadist savages. And sure, they will laugh and scoff, savages do just that,

but for those men and some women out there that feel they can be both civilized and savages at the same time, I think, its time, to just knock them off that fence,

and force them to face, what they truly are, if they perpetuate an industry that is yes, savagery.

For those who assert they believe in freedom and democracy, [the free speech advocates], then, let them answer to, if they support the freedom of savages, to undermine the other freedoms,

they’ve for too long, had the wall to hide behind, that curtain, where their banality of evil has gone on with impunity, I say, time to rip that curtain into shreds and expose them for what they are. Not only that, don’t give them any place, to avoid the issues meaning, no more, having that curtain of free expression, to hide their deeds behind.

[…] Now, sit back and enjoy the show as Pisaquari of Buried Alive wipes the floor with a troll, who bleated about “free (yawn) expression” as he asserted his right to abuse women, in Warning: Consuming these images will likely make you view your wife, girlfriend, significant other,… […]