I guess this only happens at Carolina?? If you believe that, I have some beach front property in Utah I want to sell you. Don't even bother with the "deny and deflect" BS. If anyone thinks athletes at other schools don't get "help", then there is that beach front property we can discuss.....

— Posted by Jeanne Gunn

Gee, and according to UNCheatfans all these years you folks thought you were better than other schools.

But once the ish hits the fan it is " everyone does it". How convenient.

I believe it is called LOIC.

— Posted by randythorntonv3

What people like you, who never played college sports or maybe never attended college, don't understand is that what JGunn said is very true and has nothing to do with getting caught and then saying everyone does it. It happens all over the country and at other schools in NC.....maybe some of you are just liars or too stoopid to really understand how this whole thing works. If you don't have any first hand experience, then you need to STHP because all you are doing is talking loud, saying nothing and blowing a buch of smoke out of your arz. Maybe that's why you are referred to as blowhards.

— Posted by trueblue0100

randythorntonv3 hasn't even made it out of the trailer park yet. College wasn't an option for him. Duke grads would be embarrassed to be associated with him. Maybe he's the kid sitting behind the Duke bench!!

I guess this only happens at Carolina?? If you believe that, I have some beach front property in Utah I want to sell you. Don't even bother with the "deny and deflect" BS. If anyone thinks athletes at other schools don't get "help", then there is that beach front property we can discuss.....

— Posted by Jeanne Gunn

Gee, and according to UNCheatfans all these years you folks thought you were better than other schools.

But once the ish hits the fan it is " everyone does it". How convenient.

I believe it is called LOIC.

— Posted by randythorntonv3

What people like you, who never played college sports or maybe never attended college, don't understand is that what JGunn said is very true and has nothing to do with getting caught and then saying everyone does it. It happens all over the country and at other schools in NC.....maybe some of you are just liars or too stoopid to really understand how this whole thing works. If you don't have any first hand experience, then you need to STHP because all you are doing is talking loud, saying nothing and blowing a buch of smoke out of your arz. Maybe that's why you are referred to as blowhards.

LOL...it's lots of fun for us all to sit back and watch those who couldn't get in to The Flagship (like kmor and Faye and many other ABCers here) speculate on what Flagship grads must be thinking at any given point in time.

LOL...it's lots of fun for us all to sit back and watch those who couldn't get in to The Flagship (like kmor and Faye and many other ABCers here) speculate on what Flagship grads must be thinking at any given point in time.

LOL...it's lots of fun for us all to sit back and watch those who couldn't get in to The Flagship (like kmor and Faye and many other ABCers here) speculate on what Flagship grads must be thinking at any given point in time.

I have already debunked the Kane article and the CBS blogger's compounding of Kane's distortions in another thread. The incidents Willingham (according to Kane) claims to have been ignored are actually the very ones we already know anout involving Wiley which were acted upon back then. Willingham said she was asked to review that paper specifically, not a normal part of her work. I suspect that request for additional scrutiny by her was part of the early investigation of those problems by others, not anything initiated by Willingham herself and, in that situation she might not have had access to details of the investigation.

— Posted by unc70

glad you have "debunked" everything here.....everybody can move along now......hehehehehehe.

— Posted by kmor2012

LOLI truly feel sorry for it... you can tell its up in age, and while I have respect for my elders, I have to also feel sympathy for this particular one.

it clearly can't handle the stress of its "ties" to the embarrassment that is, chapel hole.

I bet it's aged 10 years over the past 36 mos... and, that part makes me sad.

— Posted by WolfPackInTheHizzouse

well its tough for guys like this. People who went to school there and graduated and believed in the Carolina Way. Now he has to sit back and think it was all just smoke and mirrors and still is. It has to be tough.

— Posted by kmor2012

agreed, but to watch them age themselves by living in such passionate DENIAL about it, that's the part that weighs so heavily on my heart.

I have already debunked the Kane article and the CBS blogger's compounding of Kane's distortions in another thread. The incidents Willingham (according to Kane) claims to have been ignored are actually the very ones we already know anout involving Wiley which were acted upon back then. Willingham said she was asked to review that paper specifically, not a normal part of her work. I suspect that request for additional scrutiny by her was part of the early investigation of those problems by others, not anything initiated by Willingham herself and, in that situation she might not have had access to details of the investigation.

— Posted by unc70

glad you have "debunked" everything here.....everybody can move along now......hehehehehehe.

— Posted by kmor2012

LOLI truly feel sorry for it... you can tell its up in age, and while I have respect for my elders, I have to also feel sympathy for this particular one.

it clearly can't handle the stress of its "ties" to the embarrassment that is, chapel hole.

I bet it's aged 10 years over the past 36 mos... and, that part makes me sad.

— Posted by WolfPackInTheHizzouse

well its tough for guys like this. People who went to school there and graduated and believed in the Carolina Way. Now he has to sit back and think it was all just smoke and mirrors and still is. It has to be tough.

A lot of these kids start getting preferential treatment with their grades in high school. They know if they have the athletic skills it will get them through most any college. Some of these kids would never have a chance at college or any type of future if it weren't for their athletic abilities. Now, I'm not saying they SHOULD get this type of treatment, but they do. That's why I think if kids are good enough to go straight to say, the NBA, they should be allowed to once they are 18.

I have already debunked the Kane article and the CBS blogger's compounding of Kane's distortions in another thread. The incidents Willingham (according to Kane) claims to have been ignored are actually the very ones we already know anout involving Wiley which were acted upon back then. Willingham said she was asked to review that paper specifically, not a normal part of her work. I suspect that request for additional scrutiny by her was part of the early investigation of those problems by others, not anything initiated by Willingham herself and, in that situation she might not have had access to details of the investigation.

— Posted by unc70

glad you have "debunked" everything here.....everybody can move along now......hehehehehehe.

— Posted by kmor2012

LOLI truly feel sorry for it... you can tell its up in age, and while I have respect for my elders, I have to also feel sympathy for this particular one.

it clearly can't handle the stress of its &quot;ties&quot; to the embarrassment that is, chapel hole.

I bet it's aged 10 years over the past 36 mos... and, that part makes me sad.

I have already debunked the Kane article and the CBS blogger's compounding of Kane's distortions in another thread. The incidents Willingham (according to Kane) claims to have been ignored are actually the very ones we already know anout involving Wiley which were acted upon back then. Willingham said she was asked to review that paper specifically, not a normal part of her work. I suspect that request for additional scrutiny by her was part of the early investigation of those problems by others, not anything initiated by Willingham herself and, in that situation she might not have had access to details of the investigation.

— Posted by unc70

glad you have &quot;debunked&quot; everything here.....everybody can move along now......hehehehehehe.

I have already debunked the Kane article and the CBS blogger's compounding of Kane's distortions in another thread. The incidents Willingham (according to Kane) claims to have been ignored are actually the very ones we already know anout involving Wiley which were acted upon back then. Willingham said she was asked to review that paper specifically, not a normal part of her work. I suspect that request for additional scrutiny by her was part of the early investigation of those problems by others, not anything initiated by Willingham herself and, in that situation she might not have had access to details of the investigation.

(yawn) When Kane and the rest of the N&O staff get off their lazy a--es and start looking at all the major schools in the area (UNC, NCSU, Duke, WF, and ECU), then we might have a worthwhile story about the relationship of athletics to academics. Until then, this is still just another bunch of nothing. If you have attended any of these schools and didn't almost immediately realize upon arriving on campus that some football and basketball athletes were less prepared and took an easier road academically than non-athletes, YOU were really the one that wasn't smart enough to be there.

Should it be changed? Maybe. Will it be changed? In little increments, school by school.

Also, note that the B-ball program started cleaning up its act on its own.

— Posted by zanerx

I have to ask: How do you know the BB program is "all of a sudden" a clean program? Until all of the information has been released, you can't make that statement.

— Posted by seedofdoubt

You put &quot;all of a sudden&quot; in quotes, but those words do not appear in my post. I simply was repeating what was reported in the article.

(yawn) When Kane and the rest of the N&O staff get off their lazy a--es and start looking at all the major schools in the area (UNC, NCSU, Duke, WF, and ECU), then we might have a worthwhile story about the relationship of athletics to academics. Until then, this is still just another bunch of nothing. If you have attended any of these schools and didn't almost immediately realize upon arriving on campus that some football and basketball athletes were less prepared and took an easier road academically than non-athletes, YOU were really the one that wasn't smart enough to be there.

Should it be changed? Maybe. Will it be changed? In little increments, school by school.

Also, note that the B-ball program started cleaning up its act on its own.

— Posted by zanerx

I have to ask: How do you know the BB program is &quot;all of a sudden&quot; a clean program? Until all of the information has been released, you can't make that statement.

(yawn) When Kane and the rest of the N&amp;O staff get off their lazy a--es and start looking at all the major schools in the area (UNC, NCSU, Duke, WF, and ECU), then we might have a worthwhile story about the relationship of athletics to academics. Until then, this is still just another bunch of nothing. If you have attended any of these schools and didn't almost immediately realize upon arriving on campus that some football and basketball athletes were less prepared and took an easier road academically than non-athletes, YOU were really the one that wasn't smart enough to be there.

Should it be changed? Maybe. Will it be changed? In little increments, school by school.

Also, note that the B-ball program started cleaning up its act on its own.

Don't for a minute think that the vast majority of football and basketball players at Duke or Wake could be admitted there if the didn't play their sport very very well. They might be good students but they aren't Duke or Wake good students.

Don't for a minute think that the vast majority of football and basketball players at Duke or Wake could be admitted there if the didn't play their sport very very well. They might be good students but they aren't Duke or Wake good students.

I guess this only happens at Carolina?? If you believe that, I have some beach front property in Utah I want to sell you. Don't even bother with the "deny and deflect" BS. If anyone thinks athletes at other schools don't get "help", then there is that beach front property we can discuss.....

— Posted by Jeanne Gunn

Gee, and according to UNCheatfans all these years you folks thought you were better than other schools.

But once the ish hits the fan it is " everyone does it". How convenient.

I believe it is called LOIC.

— Posted by randythorntonv3

No, I never thought Carolina was better than other schools - as far as athletes go. That said, I had no idea how deep the academic fraud ran at Carolina. If you've read my posts in the past, I have stated that Carolina could have been hit with LOIC. But TBK had a good point. He was being sarcastic, but he said there was no LOIC at Carolina, because the institution was in control, they even made provisions for the athletes to remain eligible (on-line classes, no show classes, etc.) This wasn't a case of a lack of control; rather, the institution gave the athletic department control over academics for athletes with "special" classes, grade changes, tutors, etc.

When this whole mess first started with Marvin's tweet, I was mad at Marvin and Company. Then, I blamed Butch. Then Baddour. Then I realized they were all at fault, but the athletes and even Butch may have been doing what they were allowed to do all along - do whatever it takes to keep athletes eligible.

There's plenty of blame to go around at Carolina. I do believe this is a pervasive problem in many colleges, but that doesn't excuse Carolina.

At this point, I think the playing field needs to be leveled; i.e. have the same admission requirements at all schools. If Carolina can lower their standards for athletes, then all schools should be able to do the same. In the ACC, the only schools with stringent academic standards seem to be Duke and Wake.

— Posted by Jeanne Gunn

If only a majority of UNC fans, faculty, and board members had come to this conclusion sooner and demanded sunlight this could have been over with years ago. But too many were afraid of losing some of those banner bragging rights and hoped to plug the leaks in the dam before the cesspool drained. Now all the poop has slowly drained, drip by drip and it makes it stink even more. Your assessment is the conclusion that anyone who really loves the institution and has its best interest at heart should come to. You're still all class Gunny.

I think the playing field needs to be leveled as well. The admission standards should be the same for all students at a school period! If you aren't in the top 5% of your graduating class with outstanding SAT or ACT scores you shouldn't be attending UNC-CH, Duke or Wake Forest, regardless of how well you can play basketball or football. If they did that the best basketball team in the state might be Wake Tech, Louisburg or Sandhills. The best football program might be found at Fayetteville State, UNC-P, or NCAT.

I guess this only happens at Carolina?? If you believe that, I have some beach front property in Utah I want to sell you. Don't even bother with the "deny and deflect" BS. If anyone thinks athletes at other schools don't get "help", then there is that beach front property we can discuss.....

— Posted by Jeanne Gunn

Gee, and according to UNCheatfans all these years you folks thought you were better than other schools.

But once the ish hits the fan it is " everyone does it". How convenient.

I believe it is called LOIC.

— Posted by randythorntonv3

No, I never thought Carolina was better than other schools - as far as athletes go. That said, I had no idea how deep the academic fraud ran at Carolina. If you've read my posts in the past, I have stated that Carolina could have been hit with LOIC. But TBK had a good point. He was being sarcastic, but he said there was no LOIC at Carolina, because the institution was in control, they even made provisions for the athletes to remain eligible (on-line classes, no show classes, etc.) This wasn't a case of a lack of control; rather, the institution gave the athletic department control over academics for athletes with &quot;special&quot; classes, grade changes, tutors, etc.

When this whole mess first started with Marvin's tweet, I was mad at Marvin and Company. Then, I blamed Butch. Then Baddour. Then I realized they were all at fault, but the athletes and even Butch may have been doing what they were allowed to do all along - do whatever it takes to keep athletes eligible.

There's plenty of blame to go around at Carolina. I do believe this is a pervasive problem in many colleges, but that doesn't excuse Carolina.

At this point, I think the playing field needs to be leveled; i.e. have the same admission requirements at all schools. If Carolina can lower their standards for athletes, then all schools should be able to do the same. In the ACC, the only schools with stringent academic standards seem to be Duke and Wake.

I guess this only happens at Carolina?? If you believe that, I have some beach front property in Utah I want to sell you. Don't even bother with the "deny and deflect" BS. If anyone thinks athletes at other schools don't get "help", then there is that beach front property we can discuss.....

— Posted by Jeanne Gunn

Gee, and according to UNCheatfans all these years you folks thought you were better than other schools.

But once the ish hits the fan it is &quot; everyone does it&quot;. How convenient.

I guess this only happens at Carolina?? If you believe that, I have some beach front property in Utah I want to sell you. Don't even bother with the &quot;deny and deflect&quot; BS. If anyone thinks athletes at other schools don't get &quot;help&quot;, then there is that beach front property we can discuss.....