We don’t know for a fact that the flashbangs are proximity, so we can’t yet classify it as such. Ela is proximity disruption, and Lesion is proximity disability. Lesion’s gadget doesn’t really disrupt, at most it just damages and temporarily slows the attackers.

SedoUmbra:

We no longer need any more disruption. Between Mira, Smoke, Barbed Wire and Echo we have enough CC and zoning. Rushing isn’t an issue.

Mire is disruption? She has window that can be opened up. I would never put her in the same role as Smoke, Ehco, or any of these 2 defenders. Also rushing still is an issue, Ash is still as powerful as ever and it’s not uncommon (at least for me and many other players) to encounter teams that rush the objective and then take out the roamers that now have to come into the objective.

SedoUmbra:

And I did say I was excited for them in a way as they introduce new Ops for the role I enjoy playing, but it seems like their out of ideas.

Not clear on what this means. You said that your excited for them, but your dissapointed that they seem to be reusing effects?

SedoUmbra:

Both Echo and Lesion will supply CC and and intel (I’m assuming there will be a sufficient audio queue of it go off and/or the Attacker grunting or something), just to slightly different degrees, as one also allows damage and gives less intel. Ultimately same function.

I have to disagree on this. Kapkan technically has the same role by this since you place it down and you gain intel since you know someone is somewhere a trap was if they die. And Echo was already a DLC operator, so is Echo useless since Kapkan does the same thing? Ubi is introducing new operators that fill similar roles but in different ways, and if they plan to have 50-100 operators like they had said, they will have to do this.

SedoUmbra:

All these proximity traps do is dumb the game down for people who are too lazy or too unaware or just to bad for watch something themselves and secure a kill that way.

Like how Frost, Rook, Kapkan, Valk, Mute, Yager, and Bandit just place down their gadgets and forget (Bandit and his Bandit trick is the exception) do? Yes Valk has to put her cameras in good spots, Mute needs to prevent Thatcher from taking out multiple jammers at once, Kapken needs to not put his traps on windows, but so do these operators. They won’t just be throw it on the ground and then go back to shooting. They have to think of where to put the mines and if they are going to roll their flashbangs. And on the topic on if we need it, I was more talking about the defenders, not the attacker who we still don’t know how the flashbangs really work. The defenders needed more ways to disrupt and counter the attackers who don’t pay attention. This is going to make players play slower and more carefully, IQ will hopefully be played more to find these traps, and now that Bandit and Yager are losing their ACOGs less dashing around and peeking outside for long range kills will happen.

This is disruption, no? If they’re running in for a defuse plant and trigger one of these they’ll be in for a bad time.

BearStream:

Mire is disruption?

She’s not disruption but the Black Mirror is a zoning tool, that’s why I put zoning in as well as CC.

BearStream:

it’s not uncommon (at least for me and many other players) to encounter teams that rush the objective

This is why I put Mira with Smoke and Echo. If you try to rush in Barbed Wire, a Smoke, an Echo or a Mira you’re dead. No two ways about it unless the defenders mess up horribly.

BearStream:

Not clear on what this means

I’m looking forward to the Ops. They sound fun and useful, but it’s nothing creative, exciting or mind blowing.

BearStream:

I have to disagree on this. Kapkan technically has the same role by this since you place it down and you gain intel since you know someone is somewhere a trap was if they die. And Echo was already a DLC operator, so is Echo useless since Kapkan does the same thing?

and if they plan to have 50-100 operators like they had said, they will have to do this

Think that dream is dead. If they can’t introduce 16 new Ops without this much over lap, I can’t imagine the Siege community will be to

BearStream:

Like how Frost, Rook, Kapkan, Valk, Mute, Yager, and Bandit just place down their gadgets and forget

The only 2 gadgets their that are relevant to your point are Kapkan traps and Frost maps, since only they directly affect the attackers. And it’s not that proximity is a reason for hate the gadgets it’s that we now have more proximity based traps than we need. So many skill-less abilities that will heavily slow or punish attackers.

BearStream:

IQ will hopefully be played more to find these traps

Suppose that’s a good things for IQ mains.

To Clarify:

I don’t hate the abilities because of their concept. If they were in the game at release I’d have no problem. The problem is unique concepts being repeated. I’d probably even be fine with just one of them, but 2 proximity based disrupting mines in one patch? We went from 2 strong disruption Ops to 4. A potential of less than half a team of almost a full team.

Another potential issue is how strong they are for how easy they are to use, but obviously we’re yet to see how they perform in game, so I can’t comment on that. I’m just cautious because Ubisoft introduced Claymores. No skill, and one-shot kills people. From their description it seems unlikely, and I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt until I see them in play.

I think this is your single biggest problem. You had your expectations too high. After Operation Health taking over people are starved for content and now people have been getting hyped, and are now disappointed at these heroes that would have been perfectly fine (especially since Ela wouldn’t have been included) if released when their were going to be released.

SedoUmbra:

If they were in the game at release I’d have no problem.

And I think that proved my statement. The problem here isn’t the operators, how they work, what they do, or anything else. It’s the fact that it wasn’t as innovative or exctiting enough for the wait.
Also

SedoUmbra:

The only 2 gadgets their that are relevant to your point are Kapkan traps and Frost maps, since only they directly affect the attackers.

Was not my point. I was talking about operators who place down their gadgets at the beginning of the round and then rarely (or never) interact with the gadget again.

SedoUmbra:

Think that dream is dead. If they can’t introduce 16 new Ops without this much over lap, I can’t imagine the Siege community will be to

Think of it like a Moba. Many characters in a Moba can have a Silence ability, the silence is not unique to one character (unless it’s Paragon where Riktor is the only hero that has the ability with his kit) but how they use that ability and what the rest of the kit does changes the hero. Echo and Ela might both have the disorientation effect, but Echo is meant to be more passive using his drone to support and deny. Ela appears to be more aggressive, throwing out the mine (because from what I heard it doesn’t have to be on a surface to detonate, you can throw it and it will detonate mid-air) and rushing the enemy herself. This fits with what looks like she will be either 1 or 2 speed.

Expectations too high? I have the lowest expectations of Ubisoft. I really enjoy Siege and a few other of their titles, but when it comes to new content and a games health I expect near nothing.

And as I’ve said twice now, I like the idea of their abilities and I’m excited for them, but it seems like they’re scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of their creativity.

BearStream:

Was not my point. I was talking about operators who place down their gadgets at the beginning of the round and then rarely (or never) interact with the gadget again

Then I’m sorry but your point isn’t relevant as you’re comparing dogs and cats now.

BearStream:

especially since Ela wouldn’t have been included

If they released it as planned we’d have already had both Ela and another Grom op for about 3 months now. Which does mean the introduction of proximity gadgets would have been Staggered but the number is still increasing.

BearStream:

Think of it like a Moba. Many characters in a Moba can have a Silence ability, the silence is not unique to one character (unless it’s Paragon where Riktor is the only hero that has the ability with his kit) but how they use that ability and what the rest of the kit does changes the hero. Echo and Ela might both have the disorientation effect, but Echo is meant to be more passive using his drone to support and deny. Ela appears to be more aggressive, throwing out the mine (because from what I heard it doesn’t have to be on a surface to detonate, you can throw it and it will detonate mid-air)

Had not heard of this throwing mechanic. That might change things. I think we should wait until the official preview to continue this discussion so we know exactly how much they differ. I just hope this isn’t some defensive Claymore bullshit and encourages smart plays and invites counter plays.

If they released it as planned we’d have already had both Ela and another Grom op for about 3 months now. Which does mean the introduction of proximity gadgets would have been Staggered but the number is still increasing.

No, we’d have Ying and Lesion and we’d be getting Ela and the Polish Attack this month.

SedoUmbra:

Then I’m sorry but your point isn’t relevant as you’re comparing dogs and cats now.

I was comparing gadgets that are placed down and do their effects passively and gadgets that are placed down and wait to be triggered.

SedoUmbra:

I think we should wait until the official preview to continue this discussion so we know exactly how much they differ.

I think that is a good idea, since we’re literally going off of leaked information that isn’t complete at all. Resume once we start getting info from Ubi?

Hey guys, before I work on more art-related stuff for operator ideas, how do these 2 ops sound?

Attacker: Throw out a grenade-like device that can go right through barricades (windows and doors). This ability could have 3 uses, I need help picking one. 1. Instantly scans all defenders in it’s AoE pinging them as if it was a camera. 2. Act as a camera that can be destroyed but requires more damage to destroy. 3. Is a motion sensor that reveals any operator that enters its LoS (shows the operator’s icon like Caviera).

Defender: Using a specialized weapon (think Hibana launcher or Ash launcher) fire a device into a wall or floor/ceiling that creates a reinforced wall. Can be used on trapdoors (from below), on walls, or on the floor. Acts as a reinforced wall (although it looks different) meaning Thermite and Hibana can destroy it. This would allow for the ability to counter characters like Buck and Sledge that can shoot from the floor above (or from below) and also acts as another reinforced wall.
Not sure how many charges this would have, first thought is 1 due to the power-fullness of it but 2 could work possibly?

Good idea, no normal reinforcements but has 3 of these ranged reinforcements. These reinforcements being of the same size?
Also opinions on the attacker’s gadget? Would like to have opinions before I do work on the art.

Attack: Throwable device that can pass through barricades that pings enemies location if in line of sight of the device similar to a Jackal ping. Device will re-ping defenders every 5 seconds for 20 seconds. Gadget has 3 charges.

Defense: Reinforcement Gun; Replaces traditional reinforcements with a device that reinforced walls, ceilings, and floors (can hit non-reinforced walls, will have no effect) creating a reinforced wall. Has 3 charges, can be breached by Thermite and Hibana.