What is this "slave wage" labor you speak of. About 1/4 of our labor force is teh Mexicans and they get the same farking wages and benefits as everyone else that does the same job. In a lot of cases they get paid more because they are willing to learn more than one job. I'm not sure how many are legal but I am assuming most of them or not.

ogle5431:Good. I'm all for legal immigration, so please don't get me wrong. But I think it's ridiculous that we are the only country that gets shiat for wanting to enforce our immigration laws. Hopefully this plan works out and eventually we can figure out how to get some money out of these illegals to pay for their own damn ticket.

Put a fee on money transfers going outside the US based on the destination countries rate of deported persons? (Of course one could just send money to an intermediary country with low rates and then bounce it to the offending country so there's problems with the plan, but it's a plan)

WTFDYW:What is this "slave wage" labor you speak of. About 1/4 of our labor force is teh Mexicans and they get the same farking wages and benefits as everyone else that does the same job. In a lot of cases they get paid more because they are willing to learn more than one job. I'm not sure how many are legal but I am assuming most of them or not.

This is a big part of the issue with trying to do away with illegal labor all at once. Farm work may not all be high skill work, but it does help to have a certain level of proficiency. There are not enough Americans skilled at that kind of work to replace them. When Americans and illegal immigrants are paid based on the output of their labor, the immigrants often actually wind up ahead due to their experience and drive.

Granted, I think things might be different if we hadn't become dependent on illegal labor, but we did. We can't solve this problem by undoing the past. We need to break the dependency, but we can't simply erase it.

That's why I like the idea of having a set number of guest worker visas and bringing down the hammer of God on any employer that uses unauthorized workers. The number could be set significantly lower than the number of illegal workers we have, which would, hopefully, drive demand for more American labor on the farm. Assuming Americans step up, the number of visas could then be lowered. If Americans don't step up, then that just proves that they're doing the jobs we won't.

Not until much later. Original population was English, German, Dutch, Scots and some Swedes. If you go to an older cemetery, you can see this clearly from the names.

The Irish and Southern Europeans (Italians, Greeks) came later. I don't know much about Jewish immigration, except that they generally came over from the above-mentioned countries. Apparently, this was nativist enough to get into the Confederacy anyway.

You forgot a significant ethnic group...lived primary in the Southern states, considered property by most....the name is escaping me.

Greek:I don't think we should have OPEN borders. But currently, there is no way for Jose Blow in Mexico who wants to come here and make a living to actually do so.

I have to respectfully disagree with this for 2 big reasons.

One, Mexico is the nation from which comes the most legal immigration to the U.S. Not counting illegal immigration, which is a separate subject. Among roughly 200 nations on earth, Mexico already accounts for a vastly disproportionate number of legal immigrants to the U.S. I'm not saying this is a bad thing at all. I'm simply saying it falsifies your claim that "there is no way for Jose Blow in Mexico who wants to come here and make a living to actually do so". Multiple millions already legally do.

My second objection is the implicit assumption that the needs of citizens of other nations is somehow the responsibility of the U.S. In other words, okay even if given an arguably true statement such as "Mexican citizens need ____". Fill in the blank with whatever - jobs, fulfilling lives, etc. - even then why should it be the responsibility of the U.S.? I look at it this way - should Canada feel obligated to provide healthcare for U.S. citizens, or retirement benefits? We really need it. But I would argue no, they shouldn't. Canada is being perfectly reasonable and rational by concerning themselves with the needs of Canadian citizens and not citizens of other countries. I believe the same goes for the U.S.

WTFDYW:What is this "slave wage" labor you speak of. About 1/4 of our labor force is teh Mexicans and they get the same farking wages and benefits as everyone else that does the same job. In a lot of cases they get paid more because they are willing to learn more than one job. I'm not sure how many are legal but I am assuming most of them or not.

UMMMM,1. In many cases they aren't doing the same jobs. Their artifically low wages have pushed others out of the market in the jobs they do.2. HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAH AHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHSame wages. You funny.

Nobody pays the same wages to someone who is willing to work for cash off the books.

Load a bunch of them into some of these, then when over the southern part of Mexico, open the hatch and wish them luck.......you can drop them from up high and give them parachutes......or just fly low to the ground and tell em' to tuck and roll. If it's good enough to fly our military, it's good enough for illegals being dropped off.

lohphat:theMightyRegeya: sodomizer: It'll be nice to be a country of laws, not political statements, again.

But Obama hasn't done a darn thing to get rid of the illegals.

Do you mean illegal workers or illegal employers?

Instead of spending even more tax money on moving people around, why not focus on those illegal employers who provide the market draw for ths labor segment? Imprison a few agribusiness CEOs and seize the assets of a few construction companies; only then will we get reform. This could be solved n 180 days.

But no, it's easier to crush the neck of the disenfranchised slave-wage worker.

Load a bunch of them into some of these, then when over the southern part of Mexico, open the hatch and wish them luck.......you can drop them from up high and give them parachutes......or just fly low to the ground and tell em' to tuck and roll. If it's good enough to fly our military, it's good enough for illegals being dropped off.

Give the illegal mexicans a 50 pound bomb each. If they manage to successfully land themselves and their bomb on a drug cartel member/location, we won't make their children jump out with a bomb too.

Load a bunch of them into some of these, then when over the southern part of Mexico, open the hatch and wish them luck.......you can drop them from up high and give them parachutes......or just fly low to the ground and tell em' to tuck and roll. If it's good enough to fly our military, it's good enough for illegals being dropped off.

Give the illegal mexicans a 50 pound bomb each. If they manage to successfully land themselves and their bomb on a drug cartel member/location, we won't make their children jump out with a bomb too.

Load a bunch of them into some of these, then when over the southern part of Mexico, open the hatch and wish them luck.......you can drop them from up high and give them parachutes......or just fly low to the ground and tell em' to tuck and roll. If it's good enough to fly our military, it's good enough for illegals being dropped off.

Give the illegal mexicans a 50 pound bomb each. If they manage to successfully land themselves and their bomb on a drug cartel member/location, we won't make their children jump out with a bomb too.

thurstonxhowell:The number could be set significantly lower than the number of illegal workers we have, which would, hopefully, drive demand for more American labor on the farm.

We already have a guest worker program for farm workers, farmer just don't like to use it because it would cost them more because it requires them to provide things like transportation and housing. It also isn't as flexible as many would like. You could make some minor changes to the agriculture guest working program, and enforce immigration violations on farms and we would have no labor problems.

If you talk to many immigrant farm workers they would prefer to work here temporarily and be able to go back to their home country, they really don't care about citizenship. They just want to work and be able to go back and forth. Farm labor doesn't pay much and they usually can live much more cheaply back in their homeland.

RatOmeter:OldManDownDRoad: Son of Thunder: Goodbye to my Juan, goodbye Rosalita.Adios, mi amigos, Jesus y Maria.You won't have a name when you ride the big airplane.All they will call you will be "deportee".

Same song that popped into my mind when I read the headline.

Ditto. I like this informal rendition by Hoyt Axton and Arlo Guthrie.

Damn, that is nice. It's hard to beat Arlo and Hoyt. Much better than the version with Arlo and Emmylou - she always tries to overshadow whoever she's singing with. Great solo, but a mediocre accompanist.

IAMTHEINTARWEBS:WTFDYW: What is this "slave wage" labor you speak of. About 1/4 of our labor force is teh Mexicans and they get the same farking wages and benefits as everyone else that does the same job. In a lot of cases they get paid more because they are willing to learn more than one job. I'm not sure how many are legal but I am assuming most of them or not.

UMMMM,1. In many cases they aren't doing the same jobs. Their artifically low wages have pushed others out of the market in the jobs they do.2. HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAH AHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHSame wages. You funny.

Nobody pays the same wages to someone who is willing to work for cash off the books.

You have no farking clue what you're talking about. Every company in my area that has an "Inc." following their corporate name that has the ebil Mexicans in their work force does. I don't know what the tomatoe farmers do for sure but I would imagine they do pay cash.

1. This country was founded by destroying civilizations who were here first. We're here now so if we want a true equivalency, you are advocating the overthrow of the United States by a foreign body using any force necessary (as we did then). Shall they also bring their own slaves so they, too, needn't work hard to begin the new civilization?

2. This argument, if it had the same ratio of resources now per person as it did then per person, would be null and void anyway. As it is, we have a greater ratio of people versus resources and if you don't start controlling the borders now, we WILL be way worse off than before. The ones who come here will always have their own country to go home to...where will our families go when things are tough?

3. Every country SHOULD be selective of who it allows into its borders; look what happened when they just let us in back then.... "You can choose your friends but you can't choose your family." Yes we have derelicts and unwanted here but we're stuck with them as part of being citizens. Anyone else, we should (just like every other country) be able to hold immigrants to high standards. I know I couldn't move to Canada legally.

Resources are finite and we should be more aware of that here. I am not bringing a doom and gloom scenario, but we need to stop with the false comparisons and emotional talk. Yeah, we'd love to bring everyone into the "land of plenty" and let everyone be happy but it will not happen and we're only making things worse by not enforcing the laws.

I don't have the answers but if the people who can make these changes could just throw egos and emotions to the side and start admitting the problems on both sides and address them with a tough, no-nonsense views, I think we might make some progress.

As it is, unless someone's name is on the idea, unless they get paid for it, unless it's easy, etc. nobody will ever change anything. And that's the truly sad state of this country.