I hope they don't continue too far with this. I kind of like the idea of finally having different platforms using multiple unique designs instead of them all looking somewhat the same.

Just look at the different phone email clients. One is distinctly Apple, the other is distinctly Microsoft. I think having them look different is better for both companies.

Having distinct looks is a good thing, I agree, but faux leather, wood, chrome and felt? Yikes!

As for the game center design - awful as I think it is I wonder if that was about convention and an attempt not to frighten away gamers with 'modern' design. Game visuals generally seems to be stuck somewhere in the middle ages.

Much as I love Apple and modern design I don't think everything Apple designs is great. I really don't like much of the IOS visuals. Your example above illustrates the drab dreariness of that platform well.

I was thinking the same thing. This doesn't excite me in the least. It looks completely boring, uninspired, and completely off-putting. They may as well force everyone to have a completely gray desktop too and be done with it. It's like they are all coding for those piece of crap CRT monitors. What's the point in having a high definition display if everything is washed out, bland, boring, and uninspiring? When did Apple decide to look so boring? Steve ought to get his eyes checked, because I have yet to see an image of Lion that's at all inspiring. Most will cite iCal as proof this isn't the case, but one app out of the whole thing isn't an effective argument. The rectangle buttons look more like OS 9 buttons than Apple OS X buttons. So much for thinking different. I've been with Apple since System 7, and Lion is just plain insulting.

Agreed. The leather, torn pages, and wood have no place in computer GUI.

Likewise, I love my BMW, but fake wood grain accents are just tacky. Didn't wood on coaches go out of style somewhere around the Elizabethan era? You certainly don't see them on Ferrari.

But you know they do focus groups on this stuff and the general population apparently still thinks that fake crap looks deluxe.

So we're left with bland and boring gray crap instead? I remember those days. I started using Macs with System 7. There's no way that I see Lion as a step forward. The "gloss" is what makes the Apple OS so noticeably different. Lion seems to be striving toward mediocrity. It doesn't even look appealing on an HD screen. If they don't get their act together and make it look at least as good as Snow Leopard, it'll be the first OS I refuse to upgrade to since I started. Not only to I demand functionality, I demand that it not look like ass. Lion fails to inspire me, and that ought to worry them when they have Mac loyalists hating their designs.

You are the kind of guy who also like faux-wood application skins, huh?

You are the kind of guy that prefers all gray and boring? Steve said we'd want to lick the screen. From what I've seen so far, I don't eve want to look at the UI. It's just not at all appealing. It's like the only color they have to work with is gray. That may have been acceptable prior to HD screens, but these days, it's like we're being forced to be colorblind. The world is full of color, and Mac OS X used to be. Now it's gray upon gray upon gray. Someone ought to go paint a lion gray and give it to Steve.

Which is about the worst UI design you can have! Hm, is that list of font sizes the entire list? Or are there more sizes that I just can't see because the list is too long to fit in the window? What used to be a quick glance to learn so much info about your list, document, etc (such as how long it is, where you are in the list, and how much is remaining) now requires that I reach for my mouse and move it over to the region. So stupid and inefficient. And it doesn't even save you any space. You still need the space in the UI for the scroll bar to appear (see all that white space to the right of the list of font sizes in that screenshot?). I look at that 2nd font window screen shot and it tells me the visible list of font sizes is the entire list, when really it's not.

And how are you even supposed to know there is a control widget there in the first place if you have to mouse over it? It's like the silly easter eggs in 1990's web pages that made you slowly move your mouse around the web page to see if the pointer turned into a hand over any parts of the page to reveal a hidden link.

So they've hidden useful information, make you do more work to get to it and even to know it's there in the first place, for absolutely no benefit. And this is progress?

On a tiny screen, where you can design the scroll bar to overlap the content and then hide when not in use, the trade-off is worth it to gain back those precious few pixels. But on a regular (ie, big) computer screen, it's not a good trade-off. Even on small screens it's not always good. I dislike how even my iPod nano (previous generation) hides the scroll bar when you aren't scrolling. Some of my playlists are quite long and unless I move the scroll wheel to make the bar appear, I can't see where I am in the list of songs.

My only concern is what if I don't know there is an option to scroll down if the blue bar isn't there in the first place?

Apple is making it's push into gaming...this one is called "Find the Hidden UI Widget"

Next will be "Guess the Menu Command" where they will hide all menu text until you actually hover you mouse over the menu item to reveal the menu command. After all, why would you want those menus obscuring your content when all you really need to see is the one menu item your cursor is currently over. (Think of those memory card games where you try to find matching cards.)

So we're left with bland and boring gray crap instead? I remember those days. I started using Macs with System 7. There's no way that I see Lion as a step forward. The "gloss" is what makes the Apple OS so noticeably different. Lion seems to be striving toward mediocrity. It doesn't even look appealing on an HD screen. If they don't get their act together and make it look at least as good as Snow Leopard, it'll be the first OS I refuse to upgrade to since I started. Not only to I demand functionality, I demand that it not look like ass. Lion fails to inspire me, and that ought to worry them when they have Mac loyalists hating their designs.

People are by nature resistant to change. You might love it once you get used t it. You are not required to upgrade so wait and see, you may be pleasantly surprised.

You are the kind of guy that prefers all gray and boring? Steve said we'd want to lick the screen. From what I've seen so far, I don't eve want to look at the UI. It's just not at all appealing. It's like the only color they have to work with is gray. That may have been acceptable prior to HD screens, but these days, it's like we're being forced to be colorblind. The world is full of color, and Mac OS X used to be. Now it's gray upon gray upon gray. Someone ought to go paint a lion gray and give it to Steve.

I beg to differ. I think Lion looks elegant and sophisticated. Grays with small dabs of color works well on a GUI imo. The gloss and color is tacky. Just like in a car with too many chrome buttons. Understated is good. In the 80's, or was it 90's ski gear was all shocking pinks and yellows. It loOked super cool. Apparently. Slowly the colors left and it turned to black, greys and shades of khaki. Now kids are returning to fluorescent colors. It swings like a pendulum. But I like grays. I don't find them drab. And a tiny bit of color really stands out.

Personally, I think square corner buttons are a step backwards... they are too similar to text fields. When you glance at the screen the user should be able to quickly and easily distinguish between buttons and text fields.

The new design style assumes that the user is not as naive as they were in the 80s-90s. You know you have lots of fonts. Just hover and the scroll bars appear.

Yes. As the end user becomes more sophisticated so the rules change. Look at the visual language of the movies. An audience I the 50's would not understand what they were looking at as the camera flies about and depict impossible angles. The audience has become far more visually educated and so the cinema language has totally changed.

Personally, I think square corner buttons are a step backwards... they are too similar to text fields. When you glance at the screen the user should be able to quickly and easily distinguish between buttons and text fields.

Perhaps making an appointment with an optometrist would be a prudent decision.

The new design style assumes that the user is not as naive as they were in the 80s-90s. You know you have lots of fonts. Just hover and the scroll bars appear.

Are you seriously incapable of extrapolating the font list example to other situations? Do you know exactly how long every document, PDF, web page you will ever open is? How about where you are in a zoomed in image or large spreadsheet? Am I in the upper-left or lower-right corner of the picture? Now I'll have to stop my editing work and move the mouse over to the edge of the screen so the scroll bars appear so I can find out where I am.

Yes. As the end user becomes more sophisticated so the rules change. Look at the visual language of the movies. An audience I the 50's would not understand what they were looking at as the camera flies about and depict impossible angles. The audience has become far more visually educated and so the cinema language has totally changed.

Completely irrelevant. You aren't trying to interact with, manipulate, and make selections of widgets during a movie! If the director wants you to see something you don't have to find it and select it, he'll reveal it for you while you sit back and enjoy the ride.

Are you seriously incapable of extrapolating the font list example to other situations? Do you know exactly how long every document, PDF, web page you will ever open is? How about where you are in a zoomed in image, am I in the upper-left or lower-right corner of the picture? Now I'll have to stop my editing work and move the mouse over to the edge of the screen so the scroll bars appear so I can find out where I am.

No, I have evaluated this for some time now. I understand your concerns and have considered those same issues for a few months since the first previews were released. I hope Apple will make the right decisions on what will make sense in the new age of computing. Sometimes you need to just dispense with the old ways of doing things to see the genius of their new methods. I'll take a wait and see attitude with the faith they will get it right.

Completely irrelevant. You aren't trying to interact with, manipulate, and make selections of widgets during a movie! If the director wants you to see something you don't have to find it and select it, he'll reveal it for you while you sit back and enjoy the ride.

No, not irrelevant. Computer interaction is different, or has become different. It's about conventions.

If a user has at least one external pointing device that does not support scrolling, the "legacy scrollbar" is displayed at all times and the usable space in the window is reduced, as in previous versions of Mac OS X.

If the user has no external pointing devices attached, the trackpad settings control the scrollbar behavior, and if the user has disabled scrolling for the trackpad in System Preferences, legacy scrollbars are used.

If you have a mouse that scrolls, you can just scroll a bit to see where you are. Otherwise, you'll have the "legacy" scroll bars to guide you. That's good enough for me.

Which is about the worst UI design you can have! Hm, is that list of font sizes the entire list? Or are there more sizes that I just can't see because the list is too long to fit in the window? What used to be a quick glance to learn so much info about your list, document, etc (such as how long it is, where you are in the list, and how much is remaining) now requires that I reach for my mouse and move it over to the region. So stupid and inefficient. And it doesn't even save you any space. You still need the space in the UI for the scroll bar to appear (see all that white space to the right of the list of font sizes in that screenshot?). I look at that 2nd font window screen shot and it tells me the visible list of font sizes is the entire list, when really it's not.

And how are you even supposed to know there is a control widget there in the first place if you have to mouse over it? It's like the silly easter eggs in 1990's web pages that made you slowly move your mouse around the web page to see if the pointer turned into a hand over any parts of the page to reveal a hidden link.

So they've hidden useful information, make you do more work to get to it and even to know it's there in the first place, for absolutely no benefit. And this is progress?

On a tiny screen, where you can design the scroll bar to overlap the content and then hide when not in use, the trade-off is worth it to gain back those precious few pixels. But on a regular (ie, big) computer screen, it's not a good trade-off. Even on small screens it's not always good. I dislike how even my iPod nano (previous generation) hides the scroll bar when you aren't scrolling. Some of my playlists are quite long and unless I move the scroll wheel to make the bar appear, I can't see where I am in the list of songs.

Very good points all. I find the monochromatic approach aesthetically unappealing in addition to being less effective. The screen shots here don't look *so* bad on that point, but I'm surprised nobody has yet invoked iTunes 10 here. The sidebar and preferences were monochromatized so badly that the whole app became a muddle. There's no way anybody can tell me that the look of iTunes 10 is somehow helpful or more effective at conveying information to the user. Thank goodness for iTunes 109.

News flash: people don't like change. Film at 11. This is starting to sound like a thread on Facebook.

Designers don't just make stuff up, and if they are they aren't doing their job. Each little design change should be made for a reason. I'm sure Apple is testing this stuff. Interface design is tricky, and you certainly aren't going to please everyone.

I like the evolution, it looks a little more refined and subtle. The big super rounded glossy buttons remind me of early 2000's web design (likely influenced by OS X ironically).

I was thinking the same thing. This doesn't excite me in the least. It looks completely boring, uninspired, and completely off-putting. They may as well force everyone to have a completely gray desktop too and be done with it. It's like they are all coding for those piece of crap CRT monitors. What's the point in having a high definition display if everything is washed out, bland, boring, and uninspiring? When did Apple decide to look so boring? Steve ought to get his eyes checked, because I have yet to see an image of Lion that's at all inspiring. Most will cite iCal as proof this isn't the case, but one app out of the whole thing isn't an effective argument. The rectangle buttons look more like OS 9 buttons than Apple OS X buttons. So much for thinking different. I've been with Apple since System 7, and Lion is just plain insulting.

I share your sentiments exactly even if I've only been a Mac-user since 2005.. The Lion previews look like some weird cousin of Windows 95.

i've been playin around with the big kitty for a while... and i must admit there's a lot i don't like

there's too much change for change sake and too many attempts at a paradigm shift

hidden scrollbars are great for the most part - but at times they just jitter on and off in certain tight situations (like the finder sidebar)

what's worse are things like the inverse scrolling
the open app indicator switch being off
the auto correct while typing
the confusion with the replacement of "save as" with "duplicate"
the change in background for dashboard
vertically split preview pane in mail

(all the above can be switched off and returned to for what most people is normal behaviour, i anticipate apps that will leopardise lion right after install)

other gripes
launchpad not being very powerful
no dlna streaming outside of itunes in spite of server features
server features hidden away at install time - most won't realize they're there
safari on lion is very very buggy
mail needs more polish and more powerful features

i like my interface in between the extremes - i think of itunes 9 for example - matte scrollbars and color sidebar icons and i usually turn the os interface to graphite cos i don't like the green amber red bulbs in the top left window.

some parts of the os are becoming a bit too drab.

- there are some good points obviously such as versions, mission control, improved screens, full screen will become a useful feature when used properly or improved - i still want my dock and menu visible dammit, the availability of server features for everyday folk (though i'd like to see how apple will deal with the increased support requests

basically after using dev version 1.. lion is on track to being apple's vista. snow leopard will probably stayed installed on my work machines for a while

I like gray for the interface. I think all the color should be coming from the content not the interface. Grays and blacks are timeless. Psychologically they represent both power and submission. Whites represent purity and innocence. Bright colors are interpreted differently by different cultures and Mac is global so it makes sense to be neutral. I don't think you should worry about the interface becoming too monochromatic, it will feel natural after you get used to it. I have always set my desktop to gray since I do a lot of color work. That way I don't have any conflicts when designing.

^^^ 100% exactly ^^^

Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member

People are by nature resistant to change. You might love it once you get used t it. You are not required to upgrade so wait and see, you may be pleasantly surprised.

You say I may be pleasantly surprised, by what might I ask? I've seen the same screen captures you have. What is it that I may find so pleasing? You're talking to someone that was elated when 10.0 came out and I got to experience aqua after 9.2. My first 600 MHz iBook (my first laptop ever) ran both OS's and I used them both. I loved the look of OS X. I loved seeing my friends who were Windows lovers (and some still are today) looking at how fantastic it looked on that rather low resolution screen.

Just move forward to Lion and I'm sitting here with an 8-core Mac Pro and a 30" Cinema Display with more than a HD resolution, and I'm watching the OS bleach out until it's nothing more than a bunch of gray buttons and disappearing sliders. And you suggest that I might be pleasantly surprised? What exactly would you have me be pleasantly surprised by? I'd really like to know. What is it that you find so awe inspiring with an OS that has all the appearance of the gravel in my driveway? I know there are people who are easily distracted, and I'm sorry for them, but I'm not one of those people who gets distracted. I see the OS I've supported from the very beginning becoming something that's not even interesting to look at. When an OS is no longer interesting to interact with, what is there really? What's the point? Gestures? Is that all I have to look forward to? I can't even manage to teach my parents how to use the gestures included in Snow Leopard. What's the point of even trying to get them to use the gestures with Lion?

Let's be blunt here and accept the fact that there are two kinds of users in the Mac Community. There are those people who want nothing. They want bare bones. These people exist in Terminal, and they think that even iTunes has far too much color for their world. They get distracted by everything around them, and they don't want anything between them and what they are doing. Then, at the opposite side of the spectrum, you have people like me. I don't use the Terminal, I enjoyed Aqua, I enjoyed the Dock not being that reflective thing, and I enjoyed the OS being so fantastically different visually from everything else out there that people were literally drawn to look at my screen and ask about all the things they were seeing.

I've converted over 40 colleagues alone to the Mac OS. Every single person in my immediate family has switched over to the Mac because of my insistence. I'm the one they all call when they can't figure out how to do something. What does it tell you as a fellow Mac user when you see someone who's been with the OS since it first turned to color, all of a sudden having very serious doubts about my love for Lion? I've seen the same screen shots you have. It's appallingly bland and doesn't appeal to the eye in even the slightest way, in my opinion. It seems that the people who want to see nothing, and experience the least possible from the OS have won. What I've seen of Lion is about as visually impressive as the inside of a hospital. It's apparently what you want in an OS. I may end up using it, but they'll never get me to say that I find it visually pleasing. I never thought I see the day when I'd lose faith in the Mac OS, but Lion has truly let down those of us looking for something more, not less, from our interaction with the OS from what I've seen so far. It's just depressing.

So we're left with bland and boring gray crap instead? I remember those days. I started using Macs with System 7. There's no way that I see Lion as a step forward. The "gloss" is what makes the Apple OS so noticeably different. Lion seems to be striving toward mediocrity. It doesn't even look appealing on an HD screen. If they don't get their act together and make it look at least as good as Snow Leopard, it'll be the first OS I refuse to upgrade to since I started. Not only to I demand functionality, I demand that it not look like ass. Lion fails to inspire me, and that ought to worry them when they have Mac loyalists hating their designs.

Then switch back to Windows where you can mod and theme to your hearts content.

While your at it... dump your iPhone (if ya have one) and go for an Android... they have "B-U-T-ful" designs. Here's some inspiration for ya Android Beauty at it's Best

Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member

You are the kind of guy that prefers all gray and boring? Steve said we'd want to lick the screen. From what I've seen so far, I don't eve want to look at the UI. It's just not at all appealing. It's like the only color they have to work with is gray. That may have been acceptable prior to HD screens, but these days, it's like we're being forced to be colorblind. The world is full of color, and Mac OS X used to be. Now it's gray upon gray upon gray. Someone ought to go paint a lion gray and give it to Steve.

So you just sit and look at the UI all day? Don't ya have anything appealing to look at of your own, like pictures or videos or somethin'?

So we get it: minimalism is not your thing. How did ya get attracted to Mac and Apple in the first place?

Certainly their ads, marketing, videos, etc. didn't appeal to you in the least. I mean, B/W Apple logo reversed on B or W background.... videos and ads with NOTHING distracting in the background, products that are "pure design" and the polar opposite of a modded-out Alienware machine...

...are you really one of those people that chose Apple only because it was "cool"? Because obviously you do not subscribe to the "total minimalist aesthetic" that defines the image and brand that is Apple.

Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member

You say I may be pleasantly surprised, by what might I ask? I've seen the same screen captures you have. What is it that I may find so pleasing? You're talking to someone that was elated when 10.0 came out and I got to experience aqua after 9.2. My first 600 MHz iBook (my first laptop ever) ran both OS's and I used them both. I loved the look of OS X. I loved seeing my friends who were Windows lovers (and some still are today) looking at how fantastic it looked on that rather low resolution screen.

Just move forward to Lion and I'm sitting here with an 8-core Mac Pro and a 30" Cinema Display with more than a HD resolution, and I'm watching the OS bleach out until it's nothing more than a bunch of gray buttons and disappearing sliders. And you suggest that I might be pleasantly surprised? What exactly would you have me be pleasantly surprised by? I'd really like to know. What is it that you find so awe inspiring with an OS that has all the appearance of the gravel in my driveway? I know there are people who are easily distracted, and I'm sorry for them, but I'm not one of those people who gets distracted. I see the OS I've supported from the very beginning becoming something that's not even interesting to look at. When an OS is no longer interesting to interact with, what is there really? What's the point? Gestures? Is that all I have to look forward to? I can't even manage to teach my parents how to use the gestures included in Snow Leopard. What's the point of even trying to get them to use the gestures with Lion?

Let's be blunt here and accept the fact that there are two kinds of users in the Mac Community. There are those people who want nothing. They want bare bones. These people exist in Terminal, and they think that even iTunes has far too much color for their world. They get distracted by everything around them, and they don't want anything between them and what they are doing. Then, at the opposite side of the spectrum, you have people like me. I don't use the Terminal, I enjoyed Aqua, I enjoyed the Dock not being that reflective thing, and I enjoyed the OS being so fantastically different visually from everything else out there that people were literally drawn to look at my screen and ask about all the things they were seeing.

I've converted over 40 colleagues alone to the Mac OS. Every single person in my immediate family has switched over to the Mac because of my insistence. I'm the one they all call when they can't figure out how to do something. What does it tell you as a fellow Mac user when you see someone who's been with the OS since it first turned to color, all of a sudden having very serious doubts about my love for Lion? I've seen the same screen shots you have. It's appallingly bland and doesn't appeal to the eye in even the slightest way, in my opinion. It seems that the people who want to see nothing, and experience the least possible from the OS have won. What I've seen of Lion is about as visually impressive as the inside of a hospital. It's apparently what you want in an OS. I may end up using it, but they'll never get me to say that I find it visually pleasing. I never thought I see the day when I'd lose faith in the Mac OS, but Lion has truly let down those of us looking for something more, not less, from our interaction with the OS from what I've seen so far. It's just depressing.

These are the kind of posts that shutdown discussion and turn this into a discussion about people hating other people instead of what people like. Things would be much clearer if those that talked like a politician trying to bias people were prevented from posting.

Then switch back to Windows where you can mod and theme to your hearts content.

While your at it... dump your iPhone (if ya have one) and go for an Android... they have "B-U-T-ful" designs. Here's some inspiration for ya Android Beauty at it's Best

I'd never take advice from someone who has a gray screen by choice. You certainly aren't the rule, you're the exception. The iOS has one or two people buying Apple products because it's colorful. You must really hate that. I do have an iPhone and I won't give it up. It has far more color on the puny screen than I've seen in Lion so far.

As for your Windows comment, you're clearly mistaken, I've been with Mac since System 7. I've never owned a Windows PC, and the only ones I have interacted with have been at work where I was forced to use them. Of course I think you just enjoy being hostile toward people who don't see things your way. Good luck inspiring people with that.