Can someone tell me how anyone would pick Stig's Deputy to win in the 11 TH race at Arlington on the 15 TH? E. Perez, love him. But I saw NOTHING on paper. And I look real hard on long shots to find one tiny reason! What did I miss?

I didn't play this race (nor did I play any on Saturday) but looking back at the PPs I don't think it was that hard to come by. IMO, this allowance race came up VERY soft and this horse has had success in the past going short on turf (where 7 of his 9 wins come from). After the very Key scratch of Captain Jack, this horse was really the leading Early Pace type, and got it done at the front end where his best races have come from. Class handicappers dismissed this horse based on the fact he was never able to get that n1x Allowance win in 6 years of racing, whereas I bet a few pace handicappers got on this horse after the Scratch of CJ.

The fact that he was able to easily put away the other speed horse Gamay, who was coming off a layoff for a 0% 180+day layoff trainer (expected to need a race), helped too.

3. Hawthorne has a dirt course and a turf course; whether either of these are supplemented with inorganic substances, reasonable people would agree that for the purpose of this discussion of racing surfaces, dirt and turf courses can readily be classified as "organic", while no thinking person would classify Polytrack as organic.

4. Thanks for playing! Have a free spin on the Loser's Wheel on the way out!

"Sand" is made of rocks and minerals, primarily silica. It was never alive. It was never organic.

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2. Who has a "sand" course, anyway?

Hawthorne's course is primarily sand. It used to be something like 90%, though I think they reduced that in recent years. Most of the rest is clay, also not organic, but a mineral. Some small, very small percentage might be made up of wood fibers and so on.

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3. Hawthorne has a dirt course and a turf course; whether either of these are supplemented with inorganic substances, reasonable people would agree that for the purpose of this discussion of racing surfaces, dirt and turf courses can readily be classified as "organic", while no thinking person would classify Polytrack as organic.

Most reasonable people might call them "natural", but only dim bulbs would call mineral and rock "organic".

Well, you are wrong. You totally missed the clue about whether you meant "desert sand" or "beach sand":

No, I didn't miss that. It's immaterial. Hawthorne isn't importing sand from any beach, unless it is Lake Michigan's beach, and that's going to have ~zero "corals and diatoms", though maybe a few mussels shells.

No, I didn't miss that. It's immaterial. Hawthorne isn't importing sand from any beach, unless it is Lake Michigan's beach, and that's going to have ~zero "corals and diatoms", though maybe a few mussels shells.

Hawthorne's sand track is not organic.

Hawthorne doesn't have a "sand track". It has sand in it, but it is not 100% sand. Anything with organic content can be classified as "organic", even if it is a compound.

Now...you have time for 800,000 posts here, so I suppose, in your mind, you have time to separate out the grains of beach sand into their organic and inorganic substances...but it's not realistic. This is why your "sand is inorganic" statement fails -- there are exceptions to everything.

You do get credit for being book smart, but your woeful inability to apply that knowledge -- your "no shades of gray" mentality on many subjects here -- is the root cause for many nasty debates.

You don't see the world "as it is" -- you see the world as you are. That is one heavy load -- for all of us here.

the owner has had a pretty good year actually with the same trainer winning races at 5 different tracks this year that i know of(haw,AP,cby,prm,hoo), and this horse won at canterbury earlier in the summer so i dont think its a matter of them letting him win to pay the barn bills lol. no one picks the winner every race obviously including when they go several deep sometimes on a multirace wager and many of the best handicappers im sure are left scratching their heads all the time after some races

Hawthorne doesn't have a "sand track". It has sand in it, but it is not 100% sand.

It is upwards of 85% sand, and most of the rest, clay. VERY little, and entirely incidental, organic content. It is not an organic surface.

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Now...you have time for 800,000 posts here, so I suppose, in your mind, you have time to separate out the grains of beach sand into their organic and inorganic substances...but it's not realistic.

It's also immaterial, because I'm pretty sure Hawthorne's track (You remember Hawthorne's track, right? The actual subject here?) does not use beach sand with any appreciable organic content like ocean beach sand, assuming it is using beach sand at all, which I doubt.

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You don't see the world "as it is" -- you see the world as you are.

Excuse me, but who is totally derailing the subject of HAWTHORNE'S RACE SURFACE with nonsense about coral and diatoms?

With what the horses deposit on the track, I'd say there's at least SOME organic going on there.

Good point, SandyLoam. And that small, very small component of added organic content would make the polytrack at AP "organic", too, according to HV's contention that any organic content at all, no matter how small, makes the whole thing organic.

Though they are more assiduous about cleaning it up off the poly ... but you know there is a reason it has gone from light fluffy tan to dark dark brown over the years. And that's not to mention all the organic stuff that's blown into it, like hairs, and seeds, and horse snot and blood, and whatnot. No doubt about it, poly tracks are organic.

Pam, Watch the race at 54 seconds to 59 seconds the #4 Stigs Deputy get bumped bad and comes again only to get pushed to the inside. That's what I saw. Equibase didn't mention anything at all in the chart line and thats what I mean about "hidden".

Good point, SandyLoam. And that small, very small component of added organic content would make the polytrack at AP "organic", too, according to HV's contention that any organic content at all, no matter how small, makes the whole thing organic.

Though they are more assiduous about cleaning it up off the poly ... but you know there is a reason it has gone from light fluffy tan to dark dark brown over the years. And that's not to mention all the organic stuff that's blown into it, like hairs, and seeds, and horse snot and blood, and whatnot. No doubt about it, poly tracks are organic.

terry, you may have given CDI a new marketing angle for Arlington: "All Natural PolyTrack: Dig It."

Seriously, both tracks probably have a real fair amount of herbicide on them. That can't be good.

terry, you may have given CDI a new marketing angle for Arlington: "All Natural PolyTrack: Dig It."

You're far too kind. HV deserves all the credit:

"Anything with organic content can be classified as "organic", even if it is a compound."

And, I might add ... all that rubber that's in polytrack? Yep, you guessed it ... organic. (As long as it was real rubber, anyhow, and not some phony synthetic rubber ... but oh, wait ... synthetic rubber, isn't that derived from petroleum compounds, and petroleum itself is ... ORGANIC!)

Wow, it seems to me like a polytrack might actually be more "organic" than most dirt tracks!