Yes, as I keep saying it'll get worse before it gets better. They're near rock bottom, and they'll eventually hit the bottom. From there onwards, I'm seeing a revival.

You make it sound like Microsoft has the problem, when the problem is chronic lack of interest by consumers in Windows Phone. Do you agree that the only potential catalyst for change is Windows 8, or is there some other factor that will lead to a Great Awakening among consumers?

Despite the tepid reviews, I think the Lumia 900 will do well with AT&T for consumers looking to get their first smartphone at a decent price.

I think the Lumia will be doing just fine well before Windows 8 ships.

A review shouldn't be giving anything "a pass" in the first place. That's idiotic to begin with.

Not really, new platforms can be viewed more leniently so long as they show some potential or something to make up for areas where its weaker.

But in this specific example, Josh and co should know better. They've reviewed Mango devices before. This is simply new hardware. I see no sane reason why "ecosystem" should lose points between two reviews of the same exact software months apart.

You make it sound like Microsoft has the problem, when the problem is chronic lack of interest by consumers in Windows Phone. Do you agree that the only potential catalyst for change is Windows 8, or is there some other factor that will lead to a Great Awakening among consumers?

I see two potential catalysts for change, but don't think either one will provide all that large a boost:

1) W8 tablets. If they become very popular, they may cast some positive light on WP. I doubt they will become *emotionally* popular enough to do much good in that regard (though they may sell well).

2) WP8 and Nokia hardware it will enable. Finally, WP gets to a hardware-level playing field with the rest of the market, and so hardware limitations are no longer a big issue (in terms of designing the devices). I think the market timing where that can have a big (in terms of marketshare percent) impact is basically past. It's possible if some stunningly great designs that capture people's emotions come out exclusive to WP, that may start moving the needle, but it's going to be from 1-2% of the market to maybe 5-10% at best.

But in this specific example, Josh and co should know better. They've reviewed Mango devices before. This is simply new hardware. I see no sane reason why "ecosystem" should lose points between two reviews of the same exact software months apart.

A review shouldn't be giving anything "a pass" in the first place. That's idiotic to begin with.

Not really, new platforms can be viewed more leniently so long as they show some potential or something to make up for areas where its weaker.

But in this specific example, Josh and co should know better. They've reviewed Mango devices before. This is simply new hardware. I see no sane reason why "ecosystem" should lose points between two reviews of the same exact software months apart.

Because months are a lifetime in mobile? Because this is a flagship device and expectations are higher? Why wouldn't a flagship release include a significant software update? Just some possible reasons.

A review shouldn't be giving anything "a pass" in the first place. That's idiotic to begin with.

Not really, new platforms can be viewed more leniently so long as they show some potential or something to make up for areas where its weaker.

But in this specific example, Josh and co should know better. They've reviewed Mango devices before. This is simply new hardware. I see no sane reason why "ecosystem" should lose points between two reviews of the same exact software months apart.

Because months are a lifetime in mobile? Because this is a flagship device and expectations are higher? Why wouldn't a flagship release include a significant software update? Just some possible reasons.

How do you propose that the ecosystem should have changed in a few months?

But in this specific example, Josh and co should know better. They've reviewed Mango devices before. This is simply new hardware. I see no sane reason why "ecosystem" should lose points between two reviews of the same exact software months apart.

The simple answer to this that it's two different people. They have different views on the state of WP ecosystem. Joshua is less willing than Vlad to downplay the challenges and issues the WP platform faces.

The gravitational pull of Microsoft and Nokia's collective determination can reasonably be expected to produce the critical mass of good apps for Windows Phone to truly compete with the best — it's just that at this particular moment in time, it continues to lag. While closing the gap on Android and iOS, Windows Phone doesn't improve on them in any dramatic way. Its multitasking overview is good, the live tiles offer information more quickly and easily, and its calendar is arguably the best of the bunch, but those are small advantages. iOS still wins when I want to browse the web or check out a new app and Android is still the best platform for users of Google services.

But in this specific example, Josh and co should know better. They've reviewed Mango devices before. This is simply new hardware. I see no sane reason why "ecosystem" should lose points between two reviews of the same exact software months apart.

The simple answer to this that it's two different people. They have different views on the state of WP ecosystem. Joshua is less willing than Vlad to downplay the challenges and issues the WP platform faces.

The gravitational pull of Microsoft and Nokia's collective determination can reasonably be expected to produce the critical mass of good apps for Windows Phone to truly compete with the best — it's just that at this particular moment in time, it continues to lag. While closing the gap on Android and iOS, Windows Phone doesn't improve on them in any dramatic way. Its multitasking overview is good, the live tiles offer information more quickly and easily, and its calendar is arguably the best of the bunch, but those are small advantages. iOS still wins when I want to browse the web or check out a new app and Android is still the best platform for users of Google services.

I see no sane reason why "ecosystem" should lose points between two reviews of the same exact software months apart.

It'll drop over time. I though some of his comments about app tile density were spot on, there's nothing stopping Microsoft having a tile onscreen you can put a group of apps in. Could you fit nine apps per tile?

The whole WP project has the smell of internal chaos to it frankly, with a Microsoft reluctant to throw resources at it when they have to port the whole thing to Win8 soon (apps will be easy enough but the shell will prolly have to go from Iris to WinRT), musical chairs at the top, long periods of silence from the marketing and product dev teams, and no real marketing push. Microsoft can iterate the shit out of failing strategies when they want, I can only assume they're basically taking their foot off the gas until Win8 launches and then have another crack. I dunno how useful that'll be.

Of course, some of his issues could have been mitigated if he went a bit farther and found the rights apps, but frankly he shouldn't have to work around basic issues like that.

Some WP7 apps do have scrolling and other performance problems; app selection remains limited; and there are silly things that don't work perfectly. Teething pains, to be sure, but it's now 2012 not 2011.

If this phone had come out a year ago, it would have been fantastic.

Now, to mitigate the sting of that, Nokia is building them cheaply. Good for me; I imagine they're hoping to hit home in the lower end of the income crowd - and frankly, it's a much better phone than others at that price point. ($650 for the iPhone; $450 for the Lumia 900).

Of course, some of his issues could have been mitigated if he went a bit farther and found the rights apps, but frankly he shouldn't have to work around basic issues like that.

Some WP7 apps do have scrolling and other performance problems; app selection remains limited; and there are silly things that don't work perfectly. Teething pains, to be sure, but it's now 2012 not 2011.

If this phone had come out a year ago, it would have been fantastic.

Now, to mitigate the sting of that, Nokia is building them cheaply. Good for me; I imagine they're hoping to hit home in the lower end of the income crowd - and frankly, it's a much better phone than others at that price point. ($650 for the iPhone; $450 for the Lumia 900).

Maybe it's just me, or the fact that I'm used to Windows Phone, but using an iPad for me has lots of little annoyances (for example, wondering where the Back button, or the Connect button, or other things like that will be *this* time after having a hardware back button with WP). I actually *dislike* the huge number of apps per screen in the iPad, because I can't use fucking whitespace to organize them!!! WP is the same way regarding whitespace, but the limited screen showing at any one time doesn't make it feel horrifically disorganized, and I have no trouble finding things.

I don't really think it's a "teething" problem as much as it is a "I prefer a different way" or "I'm used to a different way" problem. It's still a legitimate beef; preferences are perfectly valid. But I don't really think we're going to see WP decide to up and stick a grid of 16 icons on the screen -- though when the new resolutions come out, I suppose they may decide to opt for a slightly more W8-ish set 3-4 icon columns, rather than merely 2.

The whole WP project has the smell of internal chaos to it frankly, with a Microsoft reluctant to throw resources at it when they have to port the whole thing to Win8 soon (apps will be easy enough but the shell will prolly have to go from Iris to WinRT), musical chairs at the top, long periods of silence from the marketing and product dev teams, and no real marketing push. Microsoft can iterate the shit out of failing strategies when they want, I can only assume they're basically taking their foot off the gas until Win8 launches and then have another crack. I dunno how useful that'll be.

The Windows Phone system moving to Windows 8 is probably the best thing that can happen for developers. WinRT is pretty much what the WP API should have been. Not this abomination of Silverlight. I was almost at tears when I found out that DirectUI has built-in support for transitions of the sort the WP core system shows. No navigation and event hackery.

I don't really think it's a "teething" problem as much as it is a "I prefer a different way" or "I'm used to a different way" problem. It's still a legitimate beef; preferences are perfectly valid. But I don't really think we're going to see WP decide to up and stick a grid of 16 icons on the screen -- though when the new resolutions come out, I suppose they may decide to opt for a slightly more W8-ish set 3-4 icon columns, rather than merely 2.

Considering Topolsky uses a Galaxy Nexus as his "daily driver," I think he's well familiar with the concept of hardware back button. So I don't think unfamiliarity is an issue in that review.

The whole WP project has the smell of internal chaos to it frankly, with a Microsoft reluctant to throw resources at it when they have to port the whole thing to Win8 soon (apps will be easy enough but the shell will prolly have to go from Iris to WinRT), musical chairs at the top, long periods of silence from the marketing and product dev teams, and no real marketing push. Microsoft can iterate the shit out of failing strategies when they want, I can only assume they're basically taking their foot off the gas until Win8 launches and then have another crack. I dunno how useful that'll be.

The Windows Phone system moving to Windows 8 is probably the best thing that can happen for developers. WinRT is pretty much what the WP API should have been. Not this abomination of Silverlight. I was almost at tears when I found out that DirectUI has built-in support for transitions of the sort the WP core system shows. No navigation and event hackery.

I don't see how referencing an essentially meaningless filename inside a file container is cleaner than actually referring to the declared class type of a page you've created. After all, you have to give a XAML page a class name to use in the code behind file.

As far as being a base type goes, I'd figure you'd be aware what your classes are called and what they do. If it were a base type, you'd end up with either a blank window, some fullscreen control if it's a different UI type than Page derived, or a type exception.

I don't see how referencing an essentially meaningless filename inside a file container is cleaner than actually referring to the declared class type of a page you've created. After all, you have to give a XAML page a class name to use in the code behind file.

As far as being a base type goes, I'd figure you'd be aware what your classes are called and what they do. If it were a base type, you'd end up with either a blank window, some fullscreen control if it's a different UI type than Page derived, or a type exception.

Yes, your first example is a relic of the fact that the Silverlight navigation service was patterned after the web.

All the others is pretty much the whole framework. It's some half-assed shit. The UI side specifically pissed me off at numerous occasions. You get shown the potential of the platform in the core system, and then no means to implement it as smoothly and sophisticated, because the runtime/compositor is shit and half of the interesting controls get delivered late on as sideband code (panorama and pivot) or requires you to use third party libraries.

Transitions was a huge pet peeve of mine. Windows Phone lives on it due to its minimalistic UI, to make the apps more engaging. There was exactly zero support for it in Silverlight/WP. Third party code was more of a hack job than anything else and rarely reached the quality of the system transitions, if at all. WinRT comes with built-in support, controls come with default animations. If you whip up a dummy application with a scrollviewer hosting a bunch of gridviews with random crap, everything comes flying in and out, without even writing one line of XAML or code.

I don't really think it's a "teething" problem as much as it is a "I prefer a different way" or "I'm used to a different way" problem. It's still a legitimate beef; preferences are perfectly valid. But I don't really think we're going to see WP decide to up and stick a grid of 16 icons on the screen -- though when the new resolutions come out, I suppose they may decide to opt for a slightly more W8-ish set 3-4 icon columns, rather than merely 2.

Considering Topolsky uses a Galaxy Nexus as his "daily driver," I think he's well familiar with the concept of hardware back button. So I don't think unfamiliarity is an issue in that review.

I don't think I communicated very clearly. I didn't mean Topolsky was an iOS fan (I had no idea what he used normally); I was merely pointing out that some of the things he calls "teething issues" may in fact not be. Also, I was pointing out that lack of familiarity with a platform can show itself as "minor annoyances" even in a product that has now shipped many versions and is, by most accounts, quite mature.

All the others is pretty much the whole framework. It's some half-assed shit. The UI side specifically pissed me off at numerous occasions. You get shown the potential of the platform in the core system, and then no means to implement it as smoothly and sophisticated, because the runtime/compositor is shit and half of the interesting controls get delivered late on as sideband code (panorama and pivot) or requires you to use third party libraries.

Yes, the fact that the core platform doesn't use Silverlight, and hence that there are performance and feature disparities, is a huge problem, in my view. There's no doubt that the platform would be much better for app development and performance if there were a single platform, rather than a secret Microsoft platform and Silverlight for everyone else.

I wouldn't be so bothered with them running an internal framework for their own stuff, if the developer option was equally capable.

We'll see how it goes, if the rumors about Windows Phone 8 being Windows 8 based are true. WinRT is the target platform of the Metro style Microsoft apps, so they have some motivation to make sure it works better. Unless the WP team insists on staying on Silverlight.

My biggest problem was with the Web browser, a mobile version of Internet Explorer.

Back in January, when I tested the same browser on an entry-level Nokia Windows Phone, it worked fine on both the cellular network and on my Wi-Fi network. But the Lumia 900 stalled frequently when rendering websites on my fast, home Wi-Fi network, though the phone did fine on LTE.

To make sure my Wi-Fi wasn’t faulty, I tried some of the same sites, in the same spot, on an iPhone, an Android phone and even an older Samsung Windows Phone. All worked perfectly. Nokia had no explanation for this problem.

I found that, in light use, the battery lasted through a typical day. But in heavier use, including lots of email usage and Web browsing, streaming a one-hour TV show via Netflix, and conducting an hour-long phone call, the battery drained more quickly and was almost gone by late in the afternoon. This was especially true if I was using LTE much of the time.

While the Lumia 900’s processor is single-core, not the common dual-core found on other high-end phones, I found the phone worked smoothly and quickly, and played videos fine.

The screen resolution of 800 by 480 is lower than the iPhone’s, and I found the display generally less sharp than the Apple’s. The screen visibility was a bit better outdoors than most other phones I’ve tested, but not dramatically so.

The camera, despite having the same resolution as the new iPhone, took notably worse pictures of the same scenes in my tests. To my eye, colors were oversaturated, and details were less sharp.

There were a few other issues. The Mac version of Microsoft’s Windows Phone syncing software wouldn’t recognize the Lumia 900, though the PC version did. The on-off button isn’t labeled, or easily distinguishable, from the dedicated camera button.

Bottom line: If you’re looking for a $100, high-end smartphone, or are a Windows Phone fan who has been waiting for better hardware, the Lumia 900 is worth considering. But the phone had just too many drawbacks in my tests to best its chief competitors.

What's interesting is that only Ars touched upon WP7's UI issues... the sparsity of information on an average WP7 screen. You need to do a ton of swipes/taps to get as much information as you get from an average iOS/Android screen. While those giant-ass Segoe font titles look good, they take up close to a 1/3 of the screen. That whole UI must have been designed by some hipster and typography fiend.

What negative reviews? The ones people are talking about are still positive reviews, just not as positive as some people hoped. The argument is between "good" and "great", not "positive" and (I guess) negative(?).

What negative reviews? The ones people are talking about are still positive reviews, just not as positive as some people hoped. The argument is between "good" and "great", not "positive" and (I guess) negative(?).

The Verge had a negative review, so did Mossberg. Both of these are the only reviews I see discussed here.

It's a fair point about the scores, but the sentiment of many of the reviews does seem less positive than the reviews of the 800. I can't off the top of my head recall reading any review of the 800 that was anything other than very positive.

Right, and that's the thing.... Nokia and Microsoft need a *great* phone - with great surrounding buzz - to grab attention, and reclaim ground in a market they've both lost. They are competing against very polished and/or well-established competition, with very strong ecosystems.

Some of this is out of Microsoft's hands to some degree, as they're stuck in the platform momentum dilemma, which affects reviews, but them's the breaks.

(And only to some degree. I've long argued that Microsoft needs a splashy, banner feature for WP, to differentiate themselves from the iPhone and Android - something immediately impressive and marketing-friendly and great, to make up for lagging in the app dept. Easier said than done of course, but they haven't managed to do this.)

That 8/10 number is complete bullshit. Only few reviews actually give a number to their reviews. How they came with these figures is a complete mystery. It's as if Gdgt guys pulled it out of their behinds.

That 8/10 number is complete bullshit. Only few reviews actually give a number to their reviews. How they came with these figures is a complete mystery. It's as if Gdgt guys pulled it out of their behinds.

That 8/10 number is complete bullshit. Only few reviews actually give a number to their reviews. How they came with these figures is a complete mystery. It's as if Gdgt guys pulled it out of their behinds.

heh, you're right. I just noticed they claimed Ars gave it an 8/10, which isn't actually true as far as I can tell.

YoungHov wrote:

What do you think the number should be?

Putting a single number on a phone review is stupid. Thats probably why a lot of reviewers don't even bother.

What negative reviews? The ones people are talking about are still positive reviews, just not as positive as some people hoped. The argument is between "good" and "great", not "positive" and (I guess) negative(?).

When you're an underdog and your marketshare is falling and the OS you're using is in single digits, good is synonymous with failure. A good phone won't win you over any marketshare and it won't cushion your fall. To have a chance in this two-way race, Nokia/MS had to come up with a phone that's better than competition in almost every way possible and they clearly haven't done that. L800/900 won't become a best-seller and it won't become a huge hit for Nokia. It will be just another dud and MS share of OS usage will continue to fall and so will Nokia's phone share.

Mobile, with its fast 24 month replacement cycle, is a cutthroat business and unfortunately, good is not good enough. When you're buying a new phone, you want to be sure that you'll be satisfied with it over the next 2 years and that's why WP7/RIM/Nokia are in such dire straits.... consumers just ain't betting on it. Why would you want an outdated hardware and be stuck with it for 2 years when for few extra $$$ you can get something that will not only be better in the short term but also in the long term?

What negative reviews? The ones people are talking about are still positive reviews, just not as positive as some people hoped. The argument is between "good" and "great", not "positive" and (I guess) negative(?).

Haven't you heard? "Good" is synonymous with "failure."

The problem is that "good" is not enough versus the iPhone at the high end and Android phones everywhere else. It's all or nothing on a Windows 8 halo effect now, not the worst bet to make in the world of smartphones. That would be BBOS10.

The problem is that "good" is not enough versus the iPhone at the high end and Android phones everywhere else. It's all or nothing on a Windows 8 halo effect now

The world is mostly about comparable advantage. If they were bad before, good should help, even if you need a magnifying glass to spot the share improvement.

The real question is whether they can get anyone's attention. Buzz certainly helps, but a 100 dollar phone, that has advanced from bad to good, is priced well for the function it has, and aggressive advertising might make the trick.

Besides, haven't you got the memo? According to some around here, Android is nothing special; just an accidental replacement for a feature phone that many users don't even know they bought along with that data plan they apparently didn't notice, either. I don't think that's terribly true (nor can it be a state of affairs that lasts) but if it was true of even a handful of per cents of consumers, a "good" phone could capture them.

Now, I've said that 20 per cent is the number Windows needs to be aiming at. But, you have to start where you are and progress is progress. If they could find even 2 per cent that don't know or care about the phone OS as long as it is in "some sense" smart, a better phone should find more of them; enough to move the needle if only slightly.

In general I couldn't help but disagree with some of Casey's points on her review. In particular the notifcation center approach of Android/ iOS. I much prefer the live tile approach. Also about how you can only launch a certain number of apps from the start screen. It could be that her use scenarios are totally different to mine but I just have no problem with this. all of my routine things are front and centre and everything else is a short drag away.

I also disagree with her thoughts on mail box customisation (not neccessary but I see her point), I don't think that quality is lacking in the app store but I'm not a heavy app user, and I disagree with her thoughts on content layout.

I also don't like the notification approach of Android - because I'm the type of people that obsess over the number of icons in the Windows taskbar tray which I actively remove, so the Android notification bar annoys the hell out of me as every crap notification gets dumped there and the icons keeps showing up with the most minor of notifications (hey there's an update, hey app automatically updated! hey more mails, hey junk mail, hey someone mentioned you in a tweet etc).

The WP method is much more to my liking, as it doesn't feel like the phone is constantly yelling at me to get my attention.

I've long argued that Microsoft needs a splashy, banner feature for WP, to differentiate themselves from the iPhone and Android - something immediately impressive and marketing-friendly and great, to make up for lagging in the app dept. Easier said than done of course, but they haven't managed to do this.

Office exclusivity would have been precisely this, making Redmond's inability to get a touch-native version of its productivity suite out in a timely manner the biggest of its unforced errors.

I've long argued that Microsoft needs a splashy, banner feature for WP, to differentiate themselves from the iPhone and Android - something immediately impressive and marketing-friendly and great, to make up for lagging in the app dept. Easier said than done of course, but they haven't managed to do this.

Office exclusivity would have been precisely this, making Redmond's inability to get a touch-native version of its productivity suite out in a timely manner the biggest of its unforced errors.

Yes, though it's obviously coming. But it'll understandably take a while. Office is an incredibly huge code base going back decades. I can't think of another piece of software with more "features" than office.