Removal of grass around seedlings in pasture - CornellForestConnect2020-06-07T06:51:34Zhttp://cornellforestconnect.ning.com/forum/topics/removal-of-grass-around-seedlings-in-pasture?feed=yes&xn_auth=noHi Joanne:
I was snooping aro…tag:cornellforestconnect.ning.com,2020-03-19:6448444:Comment:354362020-03-19T11:38:30.618ZPeter Smallidgehttp://cornellforestconnect.ning.com/profile/3pcwpqc3r9bgy
<p>Hi Joanne:</p>
<p>I was snooping around the NING site and saw this. What became of your seedling planting efforts? Anything to share with the group on what worked or didn't work?</p>
<p>thanks,</p>
<p>Peter</p>
<p>Hi Joanne:</p>
<p>I was snooping around the NING site and saw this. What became of your seedling planting efforts? Anything to share with the group on what worked or didn't work?</p>
<p>thanks,</p>
<p>Peter</p> Thanks for the update. Excel…tag:cornellforestconnect.ning.com,2020-01-12:6448444:Comment:350442020-01-12T16:20:07.891Zchris Shttp://cornellforestconnect.ning.com/profile/chrisS
<p>Thanks for the update. Excellent that your oaks made it to 5-6 ft. Do you know what kind they are? </p>
<p>Also, I’m happy to know that the hawks know how to follow the sheep! Our hens used to follow us similarly when we cut the grass. The noise and fumes and fast machine were no deterrent when it came to catching tasty bugs!</p>
<p>I wanted to share a nice online UK site with writing about silvaculture and pasture. If you haven’t already read this, then it might be hearty…</p>
<p>Thanks for the update. Excellent that your oaks made it to 5-6 ft. Do you know what kind they are? </p>
<p>Also, I’m happy to know that the hawks know how to follow the sheep! Our hens used to follow us similarly when we cut the grass. The noise and fumes and fast machine were no deterrent when it came to catching tasty bugs!</p>
<p>I wanted to share a nice online UK site with writing about silvaculture and pasture. If you haven’t already read this, then it might be hearty encouragement for the coming season. It’ so nice to get reinforcement of our ideas, especially when the practice is a so much slow work! </p>
<p><a href="https://www.intechopen.com/books/silvicultures-management-and-conservation/the-management-of-trees-in-the-wood-pasture-systems-of-south-east-england" target="_blank">https://www.intechopen.com/books/silvicultures-management-and-conservation/the-management-of-trees-in-the-wood-pasture-systems-of-south-east-england</a></p> Another follow up in tree pla…tag:cornellforestconnect.ning.com,2020-01-11:6448444:Comment:349422020-01-11T18:33:52.078ZJoanne Vaughnhttp://cornellforestconnect.ning.com/profile/JoanneVaughn
<p>Another follow up in tree planting for 2020. Our best successes have come from planting seedlings in "Pallet protectors" Pallets tied together to keep grazing animals out. These are weeded at least 2x per year. Oaks are now about 5-6' tall. We started these from acorns from our mother trees. </p>
<p>None of the pines made it. Tubes were knocked down by deer we suppose. The voles did the rest. It was a snowy year and they did their work under the snow. Perhaps Spruces would have been a…</p>
<p>Another follow up in tree planting for 2020. Our best successes have come from planting seedlings in "Pallet protectors" Pallets tied together to keep grazing animals out. These are weeded at least 2x per year. Oaks are now about 5-6' tall. We started these from acorns from our mother trees. </p>
<p>None of the pines made it. Tubes were knocked down by deer we suppose. The voles did the rest. It was a snowy year and they did their work under the snow. Perhaps Spruces would have been a better choice.</p>
<p>We also planted about 200 rooted willows for a "FEDGE". Many of these were just pulled our by ???? others succombed to the heat of summer. We have a batch of fall planted starts in a woven wire fence area with weed mat. We are hoping that the area is too small for deer to want to jump in and too large for the voles to venture far into without over cover. We will update with pics later in the year. </p>
<p>With regard to the mutant voles, we have watched hawks fly circles over our sheep as they walk through the pasture so they can swoop in and grab the voles as they are disturbed by the sheep. Quite a sight. Our land is sandwiched between acres of corn fields.and maybe that supports more than the normal number of super-voles. </p>
<p></p>
<p></p> Dean, Good answer to use that…tag:cornellforestconnect.ning.com,2020-01-11:6448444:Comment:349382020-01-11T14:10:06.168Zchris Shttp://cornellforestconnect.ning.com/profile/chrisS
<p>Dean, Good answer to use that relative who opposes, hehe!</p>
<p>Dean, Good answer to use that relative who opposes, hehe!</p> Joanne: there is a product yo…tag:cornellforestconnect.ning.com,2016-06-14:6448444:Comment:222392016-06-14T15:10:41.634ZRichard D. Maykohttp://cornellforestconnect.ning.com/profile/RichardDMayko
<p>Joanne: there is a product you can get called "Avenger Weed Killer". It does kill weeds and grass. The active ingredient is d-limonene 70% which is extracted from citrus fruit such as oranges, lemons, and limes. It comes as a RTU product and in various sizes of concentrates such as 1/2 gallon, one gallon, and 2.5 gallon packages. Its about $25 for the 1/2 gallon and $55 for the gallon size. You should be able to see results after a couple of hours and it is ORMI listed.</p>
<p>You may have…</p>
<p>Joanne: there is a product you can get called "Avenger Weed Killer". It does kill weeds and grass. The active ingredient is d-limonene 70% which is extracted from citrus fruit such as oranges, lemons, and limes. It comes as a RTU product and in various sizes of concentrates such as 1/2 gallon, one gallon, and 2.5 gallon packages. Its about $25 for the 1/2 gallon and $55 for the gallon size. You should be able to see results after a couple of hours and it is ORMI listed.</p>
<p>You may have to use sprays to keep the deer away too especially if you don't want to make hardware cloth sleeves and pallets. Repellants based on putrescent egg solids seem to do the best.</p>
<p>Good Luck!</p>
<p></p>
<p>The voles you have seem like they are mutants from a horror film! Eating plastic? Sesh!</p> Follow up
...some people who…tag:cornellforestconnect.ning.com,2016-06-01:6448444:Comment:222342016-06-01T15:41:56.452ZJoanne Vaughnhttp://cornellforestconnect.ning.com/profile/JoanneVaughn
<p>Follow up </p>
<p>...<span>some people who favor organic treatments often re-assess their perspective when they get involved in the effort.</span></p>
<p></p>
<p>That's exactly what happened!</p>
<p>Follow up </p>
<p>...<span>some people who favor organic treatments often re-assess their perspective when they get involved in the effort.</span></p>
<p></p>
<p>That's exactly what happened!</p> Thanks Peter, That's everythi…tag:cornellforestconnect.ning.com,2016-05-27:6448444:Comment:225152016-05-27T00:24:36.426ZJoanne Vaughnhttp://cornellforestconnect.ning.com/profile/JoanneVaughn
<p>Thanks Peter, That's everything I wanted to know. Joanne</p>
<p>Thanks Peter, That's everything I wanted to know. Joanne</p> Hi Joanne:
Mechanical (AKA or…tag:cornellforestconnect.ning.com,2016-05-26:6448444:Comment:224102016-05-26T16:20:54.433ZPeter Smallidgehttp://cornellforestconnect.ning.com/profile/3pcwpqc3r9bgy
<p>Hi Joanne:</p>
<p>Mechanical (AKA organic) treatments can be effective but sometimes at the cost of labor, time and repeated entry. As Dean notes, some people who favor organic treatments often re-assess their perspective when they get involved in the effort.</p>
<p>I too have heard that the weed mats can provide cover for rodents. I suspect they have utility when you have a tree tube that is buried an inch or so into the soil. Rodents won't chew through 0.25 inch hardware cloth, but that…</p>
<p>Hi Joanne:</p>
<p>Mechanical (AKA organic) treatments can be effective but sometimes at the cost of labor, time and repeated entry. As Dean notes, some people who favor organic treatments often re-assess their perspective when they get involved in the effort.</p>
<p>I too have heard that the weed mats can provide cover for rodents. I suspect they have utility when you have a tree tube that is buried an inch or so into the soil. Rodents won't chew through 0.25 inch hardware cloth, but that doesn't offer the greenhouse advantage of the tree tubes. Tree tubes, if you go with herbicides, also protect the seedlings from overspray.</p>
<p>Flame weeding might be an option. The seedlings will be very sensitive to heat, so perhaps flame a 3 ft diameter patch at each planting site before planting. You can plant immediately. If you have already planted, you might find a double or triple walled wood stove chimney pipe you could use to insulate the seedling while you flame. After flame (or another mechanical sterilization technique), use 3 to 4 inches of sawdust. Sawdust offers weed protection because of high C:N ratio and helps retain moisture. Don't incorporate the sawdust into the soil as it will bind N and slow tree growth.</p>
<p>If you want to go the herbicide route, use a glyphosate based product such as Accord XRT II or Round-up. I treated about 150 seedlings last week and used about 600 ml of 52% concentrate in 6 gallons of water (just to give you some rough numbers). This was about a 4% active ingredient concentration (I don't recall the exact concentration of the mixture). A different starting concentration would have a different mixing ratio. i have a column in the latest issue of NY Forest Owner on mixing ratios. <a href="http://www.nyfoa.org" target="_blank">www.nyfoa.org</a> and that I'll post to <a href="http://www.ForestConnect.info" target="_blank">www.ForestConnect.info</a> in a couple weeks.</p>
<p>The seedlings I treated are part of a reforestation experiment. The competing grasses are sprayed twice a year (takes about three hours per treatment). The grass between the rows is mowed 3x/summer to limit the suitability of the habitat for rodents and make them easier targets for predators. Thus we use a combination of organic (mowing) and chemical (foliar spray at each seedling) to control herbaceous weeds. As you noted the weeds both compete with the seedlings and provide habitat for rodents.</p>
<p>If this is your only use of glyphosate, you could find a likely find a quart or two at a local farm/garden store and mix according to the details on the label. If you want to use for other projects, you could get 2.5 gallons of concentrate, for about the cost of a couple quarts, via <a href="http://www.arborchem.com" target="_blank">www.arborchem.com</a> and if you're a NYFOA member i believe you get the contractor's price.</p>
<p>There is good information on site preparation and planting in our bulletin on Northeast Tree Planting and Reforestation <a href="http://www2.dnr.cornell.edu/ext/info/pubs/management/TreePlantingBulletin12-09.pdf" target="_blank">here</a>. </p> Looking up a propane torch, I…tag:cornellforestconnect.ning.com,2016-05-26:6448444:Comment:222202016-05-26T13:38:11.499ZJoanne Vaughnhttp://cornellforestconnect.ning.com/profile/JoanneVaughn
<p>Looking up a propane torch, I find that this will require repeated treatments. That means that I will have to skulk about with it several times to get this done. </p>
<p>What chemicals are recommended for this purpose? We are talking about 100 new plantings overall.</p>
<p>Looking up a propane torch, I find that this will require repeated treatments. That means that I will have to skulk about with it several times to get this done. </p>
<p>What chemicals are recommended for this purpose? We are talking about 100 new plantings overall.</p> Now why did I not think of th…tag:cornellforestconnect.ning.com,2016-05-26:6448444:Comment:223102016-05-26T12:46:49.159ZJoanne Vaughnhttp://cornellforestconnect.ning.com/profile/JoanneVaughn
<p>Now why did I not think of that! I will get my magic wand out and make it so.</p>
<p>Seriously though, I read that weed mat does not discourage, and may even encourage ground critters like voles to take cover under them. To be fair, we did not have the depth of snow in 2015 winter as we did in 2014.</p>
<p>I do think the pallets provided shelter from the deer. The pallets may have spooked them -- no tracks in the area. </p>
<p> In another area where we used 3' unenergized portable fence…</p>
<p>Now why did I not think of that! I will get my magic wand out and make it so.</p>
<p>Seriously though, I read that weed mat does not discourage, and may even encourage ground critters like voles to take cover under them. To be fair, we did not have the depth of snow in 2015 winter as we did in 2014.</p>
<p>I do think the pallets provided shelter from the deer. The pallets may have spooked them -- no tracks in the area. </p>
<p> In another area where we used 3' unenergized portable fence there were tracks</p>