Has anyone read Zubrin's book " The Case for Mars"? IN that book he talks about how much easier it would be to go to Mars than the Moon. I forget all the details but it was all about Delta V or something.

Anyhow. I think the main reason that Space doesn't get more interest is very simple. Beer and TV is easier. Space requires effort and care. You can't just jump in and do it. If it is not handed to you on a silver platter then the masses just aren't interested. Just like the article at Space.com said. The number of Engineering students in the US is way down.

People like Scaled Composites and Armadillo are on the right track but they Rutan needs to pay his people so he can work on the next project, Carmack needs to write another game so he can pay his bills so he can work on his rockets in his spare time. There are very few companies that can afford to put the resources needed to be truly successful in getting into space.

People are spending more time and money on the alleged "Global Warming" (was global cooling when i was a kid) than they do on things like this. Nasa is a huge bureacracy that spend more money on managment than spaceflight. We need someone that can take the long view on something like this and really put an effort into it.

Someone like Jeff Bezos may be the person. Unfortunately there is very little information from him. From what can be seen he has the money and appears to be putting something out but who knows. If we could get Bill Gates or that Buffet dude to invest a billion dollars in a company to get into space instead of spending on charity we could probably get somewhere. Until something like that comes around it is going to be spare time work. More of a hobby than a true effort.

I have little hope that the kids of the next generation are going to suddenly decide that they no longer need to have everything handed to them. So that means it is going to be up to a much smaller pool of dedicated enthusiasts and engineers to make it happen.

Once it does though, and someone besides NASA is putting people in space regularly. I think people may start to see what can happen and we could have a whole new generation of kids that want to be astronauts, engineers, asteroid miners, and on-station ship builders.

I must say I am increasingly disturbed by the apparent undercurrent of totalitarianism in the alt space community.

If we have to force rich people to spend their money how WE want them to instead of how THEY want to, or if we have to have a dictator that spends the tax money how HE wants to instead of how the PEOPLE want to in order to get to space, then I for one want humanity forever imprisoned on Earth! If we cannot get to space using fair and democratic processes, then we as a race do not deserve to ever get off this planet!

I know it sounds odd, but the answer to it is the same with regards to space. For many, it's simply not in their radar. Those who are into fly fishing will wax lyrical about the metaphysical aspects to soaking yourselves in waist deep water casting their lines etc etc but the rest of us will wonder what's the big deal.

You overlook the joy of snapping expensive fishing flies off your line with an overenthusiastic â€œcrack the whipâ€

There are people who have planned and completed extraordinary adventures on Earth and who want to do so in space. I know, because I am talking to some of them. They have also been able to raise substantial funding for such efforts: funding sufficient for the â€œUltralightâ€

Perhaps this forum could outline a basic approach for a manned mission to the moon/mars. Nothing specific to engineering maybe, but there are a lot of people with a lof knowledge on a lot of different terrains. Even if this is wishfullthinking^2, might be something to get everybody thinking.

On another note, i was talking with a friend of mine yesterday about spacetravel in general and he found it quiet special that i wanted to do aerospace engineering which isn't exactly the easiest study you can do. Then he said, people are lazy, perhaps they care about spacetravel, but it isn't easy to even get an engineering degree on an university. It isn't handed to them on a silver platter so they can simply get in and go there.

To bad he's right. Enough bright people out there, but they choose the way of the least resistence.

One or Two travelers (you can't get much smaller), 10 to 20 ground crew and support people (most can be part time, volunteers), plus whatever it takes to keep your sponsors happy (accounting, personal presentations (while the travelers are in space), forward reports, pictures and video).

Perhaps this forum could outline a basic approach for a manned mission to the moon/mars. Nothing specific to engineering maybe, but there are a lot of people with a lof knowledge on a lot of different terrains.

A partial answer (form another posting):

Mars Missions. Depending on your fuel, you can get to the Moon using about 75% of your mass in LEO for fuel to accelerate to near escape velocity AND brake into lunar orbit. Somewhat LESS is needed to accelerate into a Mars transfer orbit (8 month transfer time). Aerobraking at Mars requires very little fuel. (It does require a camera, derived from prototypes we have in operation, which will allow you to precisely monitor and adjust your intercept trajectory.)

With 3600 kg to LEO with a Dnepr ($12 Million), you get up to 1200 kg into Mars orbit. (If, that is, you want to orbit. An interesting 3 year â€œfree returnâ€

One or Two travelers (you can't get much smaller), 10 to 20 ground crew and support people (most can be part time, volunteers), plus whatever it takes to keep your sponsors happy (accounting, personal presentations (while the travelers are in space), forward reports, pictures and video).

I assume your team meets these criteria. Surely in a world of 6 billion people there are enough like minded individuals to make up 4 more such teams. Where are they all hiding?

A little more to the original question of this topic, but we all know by now the news that they have found a rocky planet within the, or must i see our, habitable zone. On a rather popular Dutch forum, someone (not me) created a enthousiastic topic about it, and pracitcly nobody replies with a a feeling that this was important news. Geez, they even said that the planet is no more different then Mars or Venus. Damn, silly ignorant people.

Yesterday I talked in short about that planet with my parents who are in the seventies and the eighties. They allways have been interested in stars, planets etc and in space missions. Regarding stars etc. and astronomy my own interest furthered theirs.

My father asked - perhaps merely rhetorically - what purpose might be got by that finding. That far away, that the Apollos would need more that 500,000 years to reach it and - as I mentioned - 205 years at 10% c.

In so far the question of how to get a use for practice by it might be one major reason.

This reason can be handled and dealt with by public relations, marketing and the like.

In so far the minds may start to change once raw materials mined on the Moon become available. In the Technology section and in the Latest News section already is talk about it. If the company founded a few weeks ago to mine in the Shackelton carter succeeds and later extends their business to materials of use for the earthian industry a lot of people might start to intensively look towards the Moon and other planets.

I want to put into orbit a space station. and develope the scramjet so we can get there faster safer and more economicly and I plan to do it in the next 10 years! Without NASA! Without the government throwing money away! by hunting down the people and resorces that Want it! I plan to win the N-Prize and then enter the X-Prize and work on the space station at the same time! Some people are to layed back and say it cant be done! Thay are wrong! We can do it right now! If we want too! So all I am asking is who wants too??????????? Who wants a job in Space? Who is willing to go there?????Im not looking for the "right stuff" Im talking to you!! and everyone that really wants to go.

I don't think that we will be able to muster a significant portion of the people in the United States to undertake any mission to Mars. I believe that this is because we have become so short term thinking and have many interesting distractions. Back in the days of Apollo, there were 4 (maybe) TV stations and they all focused on the effort. Now with the advent of Cable, Internet, etc... getting the constituency needed to get a large enough number of elected officials motivated about space, to the point of allocating resources, is a very tough sell. Even what was considered patriotic has changed since Apollo. Therefore, we need to gather the interested and get the private resources needed and then we only need to get the politicians to leave us as alone as possible.