I have had one of those insights today and keen to get some thoughts on it.

I suspect that the HI and more so the geometric images and grid that we see between the waking and sleeping state if no more that the screen in which external images are normally displayed. In WR the light collected is displayed on this gird and then interpreted by the inner workings of the brain and re-displayed from the inside in the correct way to complete the illusion of what we see in daily life. Images come in upside down, pass through and are then turned around and re-displayed on the inside of this grid and in conjunction with some more trickery make outside reality and some other processes give us spatial awareness and complete the illusion.

When we enter into light sleep and then early stages of REM we pass our awareness from the external images displayed on the inside of this grid to the inside and looking from the inside and see this grid without any input from either external sources or internal sources and this is the state where we see random images and lights etc (the un-tuned TV)and see the gird in the form of energy just waiting to receive thought and display this as what we call dreams. Passing through this by taking consciousness into the dream state we are now on the inside looking out or back and with intent we project energy to this grid and create the inner world that we know as a dream state and because we are also consciousne we can interact with this illusion using our energy body and have the Lucid dreams.

Its been a big few days

Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

I think I followed most of that, sounds like you are on the right track. Lately as I wait to sleep I will watch the hypnogogia images (SP?) and sometimes whatever comes into my minds eye will be on the images, that is I cant tell the difference between the black grid and my minds eye, they kind of merge together. Sometimes it gets to a point where you control the images you see and can make your own patterns, sometimes they just take on a life of their own...

"There is theoretical abstraction, and then there is true abstraction."

sort of, I see the grid as WHERE all the dreams take place and all of our realitly takes place. Its an insight that taken a lot of years to come along and I am going to flesh it out into something less abstract and see if i can get a few pages out there for discussion.

In a nutshell when you WILD and see the grid or geometic mesh when you are taking you world view from external to internal and in taking awareness to the dream state you pass your awareness through this mesh. As your awareness in a WILD moves through the HI images and the mesh appear. When you are firmly in the dream you are now IN this mesh and interacting with the dream. The mesh is where all these images are displayed and in a way that we can interact. Its the holo deck on the enterprise and where all of our reality takes place. I have heard the brain as being called a 3 pound universe well this grid is where the brain creates the universe for us and is the interface. I think I can flesh this out to several pages and call it a theory.

Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

Peter wrote:I suspect that the HI and more so the geometric images and grid that we see between the waking and sleeping state if no more that the screen in which external images are normally displayed. In WR the light collected is displayed on this gird and then interpreted by the inner workings of the brain and re-displayed from the inside in the correct way to complete the illusion of what we see in daily life. Images come in upside down, pass through and are then turned around and re-displayed on the inside of this grid and in conjunction with some more trickery make outside reality and some other processes give us spatial awareness and complete the illusion.

Images that come in don't go directly to the brain, they're converted into electrical and chemical signals by the retina which passes them to the lateral geniculate nucleus, which in turn passes them onto the visual cortex, both of which (one for each half of the brain) work together to create the image we see. Individuals who have lost both eyes to retinoblastoma still dream with normal vision-this rules out the retina as being your grid. If the two visual cortex are the "grid" there's an easy test for your theory. Do people with contralateral lesions in the visual cortex (causes a blind spot) dream without those blind spots? If they do the grid hypothesis can be ruled out.

When we enter into light sleep and then early stages of REM we pass our awareness from the external images displayed on the inside of this grid to the inside and looking from the inside and see this grid without any input from either external sources or internal sources and this is the state where we see random images and lights etc (the un-tuned TV)and see the gird in the form of energy just waiting to receive thought and display this as what we call dreams. Passing through this by taking consciousness into the dream state we are now on the inside looking out or back and with intent we project energy to this grid and create the inner world that we know as a dream state and because we are also consciousne we can interact with this illusion using our energy body and have the Lucid dreams.

HI are very connected to normal imagination and normal imaginary images often appear before HI.When awake we often see imaginary patterns in things, this implies that HI and normal imaginings are being created in the higher cortex and are independent of actual vision. Against the grid hypothesis, we also have the fact that those born blind don't have visual dreams. If HI and dreams occurred on a grid they should still be having random visions and lights and seeing colors.

"There is only one God and his name is Death.And there is only one thing we say to death "not today"- Syrio Forel

Interesting thoughts on Hi, Peter. Something I just discovered in my LD last night that might be related: When I moved my hands in the lucid dream, they appeared to be "scanned" like certain types of displays with LEDs where each one comes on for a short period of time, then is off and the next is on, etc. I will be thinking about this for a while.

Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

Peter - interesting idea. Let me think on it awhile. Here's another little thing that I thought of. I usually see the colors, grids, geometric patterns first before the images and "movies". Does that happen with anyone else? or, do you just start seeing actual images without the grids etc.? If there is an order that these visual HI appear, my question would be "Why in that order?" Snaggle had some interesting points too.Like I said - let me think on this a bit.

Jack Reacher wrote:Kind of explains why you can see the buzzy dots even with your eyes open I guess, although that might just be me with bloodshot eyes.

Buzzy dots. The eye really takes in light with rods and cones. If one is nearsighted like me and looks at a street lamp from a mile away one will not see a light,instead one will see many lights like a Christmas tree, that is one is seeing the light is being seen by the individual cones rather than seeing a single object with all the cones aligned with it.

thomas wrote:... I usually see the colors, grids, geometric patterns first before the images and "movies". Does that happen with anyone else? or, do you just start seeing actual images without the grids etc.? If there is an order that these visual HI appear, my question would be "Why in that order?" Snaggle had some interesting points too.Like I said - let me think on this a bit.

Thomas

HI can appear instantly upon closing ones eyes. They can start as movies or images. This is the normal slow way of seeing them for me:

1. I see a blank screen that's black usually with a swirling white light that's more imagined then seen.

2. I feel a bunch of potential imaginary images.

3. I pull one out or one pops out (of to this point it's just normal imagination) usually followed by a slide show of them.

4. HI proper appear that can really be seen like any object in real life. Sometimes they're a bunch of them as in 2 which I either pull out or one pops out on its own and again usually a slideshow starts, but if the image is a lot more animate than normal a "movie" will start.

5. The movies start.

These steps don't have to be gone through, the movie (actually a NREM dream) or HI can start immediately

"There is only one God and his name is Death.And there is only one thing we say to death "not today"- Syrio Forel

Thanks Snaggle, your post contains some of the issues I will look into soon and see how I think about it all then. I am always curious in where the dreams take place and there must be a medium for this and that in in a WILD and following the stages of the entry there are parts that seem consistant and I was having a think about them. Anyway I will dig a little deeper and follow up on this soon

peter

Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born