Originally posted by nerbot
I wish people would stop critisizing "The U.S." and start critisizing "The U.S.Government" as the secular and elitist unit that it is, otherwise
it just shows ignorance and breeds collective contempt. It is the government who are spoiling things for the rest of us, not the American citizens
...and they have it on their doorstep day in, day out.

Isn't having a secular government a good thing?

Originally posted by WhiteDevil013
Why do people think that the general public should be privy to all state secrets?

The whole point of having elected leaders is to put someone in charge of the tough decisions, the weight of knowing the world secrets, knowing how
close we come to nuclear war, while the public sleeps soundly at night.

Actually, the point of having elected leaders is so that we dont' have to spend all of our own time voting and crap. Secrets and Heavy Decisions
have nothing to do with it originally; it's originally 100% so that we can have actual lives, and get things done.

In an ideal world where the governments actions and interests are truly for the people, yes I would not be on Assange side.

However given the USA, and countless other countries track records of deception, total disregard for human life and self serving interests I think
they need to be taught a lesson.
If SHTF because of that, then so be it.
If this is what it takes in order to have change and progress, I don't mind.

I just know that what we are doing now and how the governments are acting, is not really working and is limiting humanities potential.

In the long run, nothing good can come from dishonesty and greed.
In the long run, the best option is usually honesty and transparency.
They say those rules apply to relationships, why not to the government too?
We are in a relationship with the government of some sorts.
And currently they're acting like that lying jerk that always cheats on you, says sorry ( or totally ignores the issue ) and you're expected to just
believe them and come running back to them with open arms.

"Actually, the point of having elected leaders is so that we dont' have to spend all of our own time voting and crap. Secrets and Heavy Decisions
have nothing to do with it originally; it's originally 100% so that we can have actual lives, and get things done"

Serious? Our Elected were put in place to put uphold their electoral bases beliefs ideas and uphold the Constitution that's it, never meant to be a
career for them. Get in, get the hell out, next. That would be nice if your last sentence were correct instead of what it's become which is; give
them our lives to pay their tax.

The main problem we have is that only a miniscul fraction of the population (TBTB) are deciding the fate of the general populus.
A lot of information that has been released is in itself not ground breaking, but does for me highlight how corrupt/backstabbing, most levels of
governments are.

The US has been given a lot of bad press and as a brit myslef, I feel this is an unfair assessment. The thing is my friend's with every country in
the world you will have bad and good people within that country.
What we all need to realise is that a small number of people at government level (and above) are controlling the fate of the world and believe me they
do not have the interests of people who they consider to be below there statues.

This is a double edged sword. More and more people are starting to realise the real workings of the world, but even so, there has never been a way to
loosen the grip that (TPTB) have over us.
It is true as someone mentioned earlier that this could potentially lead to increased tensions in already tense areas, but this could also possible
lead to a wakening of the general population about what is really going on.

How many people from around the world (I invite all nationalities to answer) can say hand on heart there government primarily serves the interest of
the general population.
Julian Ass has taken a gamble exposing these documents, but in a world where our governments are demanding to know everything we do big brother style
(and we have to be accountable) then in a fair society that should work both ways.

I agree with your post, but I can also understand those that are upset with the U.S. The U.S. has abused its standing as a super power. It has become
arrogant to a lot of our European friends and other countries around the world. The U.S. defends their military ventures, but when another country
does the same thing it's considered threatening and destabilizing. We try to change a countries ideologies instead of countries deciding on their
own change. We have no right to force democracy onto sovereign countries as much as China has no right to force communism. We simply feel it's our
right as a super power to intervene in other countries affairs. We don't like it, so why should other countries?

Originally posted by DerbyCityLights
I can’t believe that America is so evil! Wow they just made fun of every leader in the world! Oh My GOD! The nerve of those yanks!

Yeah, come on people, if you think that America is the only country with "secret documents' of this nature you are sorely mistaken and maybe just a
tad bit naive. For the love of god people, just because YOUR country didn’t have that one person who decided to hand over doc's to asswipeage
doesn’t mean YOUR country is any less guilty of the SAME oral bantering that the American government was found to be doing. You live in a glass
house. Be careful how far you throw that rock.

So what? Sure, other countries' governments are also corrupt - but that doesn't exonerate the US. The whole network of mafia criminals has to be
dismantled. As self appointed and much bragged about 'leader of the world' the US should take the first and biggest hits. Americans can't
have it both ways.

In his headlong race to make the U.S. look bad, this idiot is exposing conversations that could lead to widespread wars.

China is opening up...PRIVATELY...to the west about the menace that is North Korea...even suggesting that Korea should be unified with South Korea
taking the lead. They...in the leaked documents...refer to Kim as a "spoiled child".

How do such revelations aide in having China acting as an agent of compromise...in working behind the scenes to moderate the reactions of a crazy
despot and his heir.

Assange is a shallow thinking idiot that needs to be stopped before his egotistical crusade gets a few million...or billion...people killed.

How do you suppose Kim is thinking tonight, NOW knowing that his supposed ally is working in the background to end his legacy after his death? Might
he be less...or more...inclined (as the sociopathic mass murderer that he is) to just go ahead and set the peninsula on fire?

Arrest Assange now...if for nothing else than possession of stolen property...before he gets us all killed.

Assange isn't going to get you killed - but your government is planning on doing that in the near future.

Your naivety and histrionics amaze me... You seem to be deluding yourself that this information was not known to anyone else before Wikileaks
published it.....get real. N. Korea has top class intel networks, as do pretty much every other country in the world. Much of this info will already
be known to them. Given the deplorable level of security practised by the US - eg. that thousands of low grade staff had access to all this
information - it will have been picked up by any intel agency from any country that was interested in it with no problem at all.

The Governments are terrified of the people getting this information on them, that's why they are squealing.
They don't want any of the truth exposed to the people, because that threatens their nice, comfy, criminal careers and back handers.

Wikileaks is doing the PEOPLE of the world a huge service here - and all you can do is bleet and parrot the Government's propaganda.

Originally posted by DerbyCityLights
I can’t believe that America is so evil! Wow they just made fun of every leader in the world! Oh My GOD! The nerve of those yanks!

Yeah, come on people, if you think that America is the only country with "secret documents' of this nature you are sorely mistaken and maybe just a
tad bit naive. For the love of god people, just because YOUR country didn’t have that one person who decided to hand over doc's to asswipeage
doesn’t mean YOUR country is any less guilty of the SAME oral bantering that the American government was found to be doing. You live in a glass
house. Be careful how far you throw that rock.

So what? Sure, other countries' governments are also corrupt - but that doesn't exonerate the US. The whole network of mafia criminals has to be
dismantled. As self appointed and much bragged about 'leader of the world' the US should take the first and biggest hits. Americans can't
have it both ways.

Ok then, lol- who do you suppose should go and exact this justice you demand there partner? What is a fitting punishment in your eyes for these
worldwide elected officials who have massive militaries and armies at their disposal for people like you who consider them mafia and criminals? You
cant have it both ways either now can ya? So which is it? enlighten me.

In his headlong race to make the U.S. look bad, this idiot is exposing conversations that could lead to widespread wars.

China is opening up...PRIVATELY...to the west about the menace that is North Korea...even suggesting that Korea should be unified with South Korea
taking the lead. They...in the leaked documents...refer to Kim as a "spoiled child".

How do such revelations aide in having China acting as an agent of compromise...in working behind the scenes to moderate the reactions of a crazy
despot and his heir.

Assange is a shallow thinking idiot that needs to be stopped before his egotistical crusade gets a few million...or billion...people killed.

How do you suppose Kim is thinking tonight, NOW knowing that his supposed ally is working in the background to end his legacy after his death? Might
he be less...or more...inclined (as the sociopathic mass murderer that he is) to just go ahead and set the peninsula on fire?

Arrest Assange now...if for nothing else than possession of stolen property...before he gets us all killed. www.cbc.ca...

I wonder, given how terrified you are of getting killed in a war with Korea, just how do you think the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and Afghans
felt about being killed by US? Have you stopped for a moment to imagine the fear and dread and horror they have been feeling and living with for
years and years? Or how the Palestinians feel day in day out - and the mass murder being carried out there by US funded Israel?

Originally posted by peter_kandra
I agree with you, yet some people feel it's their god given right to know everything about everything. I guess they also must think their parents
were bad people for keeping stuff from them.

Here's a perfect example of blissful ignorance. He equates the relationship between the people and the government to that of a parent and child.

You're dead wrong. We are intelligent adults. We are not children and the government certainly is not our parents. We don't need to be told lies
to go about our daily lives happily. He didn't elect parents. We elected representatives. If we liked parental governments, we would have stuck
with king and the philosophy of doing what we're told without question.

If you want to live as a child and want a government to treat you as a child, that's your choice. I choose to be seen as an equal.

Originally posted by DerbyCityLights
I can’t believe that America is so evil! Wow they just made fun of every leader in the world! Oh My GOD! The nerve of those yanks!

Yeah, come on people, if you think that America is the only country with "secret documents' of this nature you are sorely mistaken and maybe just a
tad bit naive. For the love of god people, just because YOUR country didn’t have that one person who decided to hand over doc's to asswipeage
doesn’t mean YOUR country is any less guilty of the SAME oral bantering that the American government was found to be doing. You live in a glass
house. Be careful how far you throw that rock.

So what? Sure, other countries' governments are also corrupt - but that doesn't exonerate the US. The whole network of mafia criminals has to be
dismantled. As self appointed and much bragged about 'leader of the world' the US should take the first and biggest hits. Americans can't
have it both ways.

Ok then, lol- who do you suppose should go and exact this justice you demand there partner? What is a fitting punishment in your eyes for these
worldwide elected officials who have massive militaries and armies at their disposal for people like you who consider them mafia and criminals? You
cant have it both ways either now can ya? So which is it? enlighten me.

One of the ways is by tearing down the walls of secrecy behind which they hide, and exposing the truth to more and more people of the world, and by
people using that truth to stand up to these criminal governments. By taking collective action to bring down the structures they rely on for
power.

These governments are not elected, they are selected by those who control them.

Sorry, but how was I wanting to have it both ways? My argument is quite clear. They are criminals, they are destroying the world, and their evil
game needs to be dismantled. I don't want their militaries, you said that not me. I want them to be exposed and brought to justice.

I agree with you, yet some people feel it's their god given right to know everything about everything. I guess they also must think their parents
were bad people for keeping stuff from them.

I don't want to know "everything about everything." I want to know how and why trillions of dollars are being spent. I want to know why he went to
war. I want to know how many civilians have been killed, when and how. I want to know how lobbyists and special interests drive our foreign and
domestic policies. I want to know if the Constitution is being violated. I want criminals to be tried in a court of law and punished. I don't want
the government to lie to me, especially if it means millions of people could be killed in an unjustified, unprovoked, and illegal war.

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