It is undeniable ( no study necessary ) that if one were to draw a line from the boot of Italy to London England and take a swath 300 miles east and west you would find, over history, 95% of the geniuses of the world. Art, music, literature, mathematics, physics, inventions ; you name it. Do we need skull size measurement ? The results are what count. By the way most of the geniuses showed their talent as teenagers.

Jedi of Zen wrote:I remember reading somewhere once - I don't recall where - that East Asians (ie, Japanese, Chinese, etc.) tend to have head sizes that are larger than those of all other races when compared *in proportion to body size*.

It's not just in proportion to their body size, but also on an absolute scale. Studies show that East Asians have larger skulls and cranial capacities on average than whites, and whites larger than blacks. Other studies demonstrate the same relationship with regards to brain size and IQ scores. Studies of children adopted by parents of a different race demonstrate that the differences are mostly influenced by genetics rather than cultural norms.

However, note that IQ tests attempt to measure some form of intelligence but do not necessarily accurately measure intelligence overall. Also note that a certain high IQ score requirement is neither necessary nor sufficient to warrant the label "genius" in the most common application of the term. IQ scores, intelligence, and ingenuity are all different things. The studies I refer to simply suggest that East Asians have higher IQ scores on average than whites, and whites higher than blacks. This does not imply greater overall intelligence or a greater proclivity to ingenuity, each notion of which is currently very ambiguous and difficult to precisely characterize.

david23 wrote:You know it's these types of tests that create racism and barriers between people of different backgrounds. If anything, why dont these people look at the culture, family background, and other factors.

I don't think you are correct. "Racism" and more generally prejudices based on race have been around for as long as man has been around. But attemping to pull this topic back into the domain of Biology rather than sociology i have to say that "Prejudices" are a healthy mechanism a bit like "fear" is.

comment wrote:It is undeniable ( no study necessary ) that if one were to draw a line from the boot of Italy to London England and take a swath 300 miles east and west you would find, over history, 95% of the geniuses of the world. Art, music, literature, mathematics, physics, inventions ; you name it. Do we need skull size measurement ? The results are what count. By the way most of the geniuses showed their talent as teenagers.

Yet while great civilizations thrived in the more southerly regions of the world these same Western Europeans were living in caves and mud huts. The geniuses you speak of came on the scene only in the last few hundred years, and they have been decidedly few and far between. Probably for every billion Europeans produced one of them becomes Isaac Newton or similar. In other words, it's a freak occurrence of the most extraordinary and extreme nature. In fact take away Isaac Newton and we may not even have a space program. Just one individual out of billions of Europeans. That is hardly testimony to the idea of white supremacy. Real supremacy would dictate that Newton should be the norm, rather the the most grossest of exceptions.

By the way, people are only classified as geniuses if their genius is recognized by society. Surely there were some European geniuses in earlier periods of European history, but they were not recognized as such, as the means by which such genius could find expression and be appreciated globally did not exist. You could say the same for Africa, Asia, native Ameria, etc.

If intelligence is genetic and if Europeans are most prone to intelligence, why is it we can't go beyond a few hundred years to find examples European geniuses? Again, highly sophisticated and refined civilizations were active in other parts of the world while the same Europeans "from the boot of Italy to London England" were essentially savage barbarians.

I confess I am sick of this pseudo fraternal speech of some experts which turn science diffuse and obscure.My wife is black and I love her, but let’s get to facts: black man is clearly stronger physically and that can be attested in several official sports results when the sport demands strength and speed: athletics, box, long jump, etc… but when the sport demands technique, then Asians and Europeans tend to have better results. That’s a fact!Let’s cut the mazes created by some pseudo fraternal scientists and let’s get to facts.

Black Africans have a smaller brain capacity when compared to Caucasians and that has strong influences on IQ. Craniologists clearly know that for example through human evolution a very pertinent factor for attesting the level of evolution of the Homo specie was the brain capacity. How many black men have won Nobel prizes for physics, chemistry or other prizes for mathematics? I know what you’ll say, the typical stuff: cultural factors, bla…

Look, I am not at all racist, I have many black friends and my wife is black, but I confess I’m sick of these pseudo scientists with this fraternal line of thought which want to make all human beings equal like mere twins. All human beings have differences, and have similarities and black African men are statistically less intelligent than Caucasian men. But that shall never be a factor for racism, discrimination, hate or superiority. All men shall live in peace and harmony and should obviously be treated equally but let’s be objective when it concerns to these clear facts.

Take careJoão

Nothing is really beautiful but truth, and truth alone is lovelyBoileau

Seth90210 wrote:That is hardly testimony to the idea of white supremacy.

This is the great problem of talking about these issues, because topics like supremacy and superiority come always to the subject matter, and that obviously make science diffuse due to political and social issues.

Look, for me, the point is clear: We live, on western society, based socially and culturally on the French revolution principles and on the freemasonic doctrines of Liberty, Equality and Fraternity, so, it is very unpopular and controversial when clear studies claim that men have higher IQ levels than women or that white man has higher IQ than black man, because it will be seen as a factor for discrimination or supremacy, when many other men in past made a great philanthropic effort to abolish slavery and give equal rights to women and black man.

And other factor is that nowadays people see intelligence as a prime factor for supremacy, and actually social studies show it is not. It is much more important on life, socially, for the success of an individual, qualities like dynamism, hard working, diligence and activism, than just intelligence.

I evoke Boileau:Nothing is really beautiful but truth, and truth alone is lovely

Take careJoão

Nothing is really beautiful but truth, and truth alone is lovelyBoileau

I was an anthropology/primate physiology major for awhile,before I ended up switching majors, as hiding out in the jungle with apes (my dream) did not generally pay well I want to be able to be honest here, even in the face of political correctness. But I remember many studies with chimpanzees, especially ones comparing them to humans in various ways.One such study was a comparative analysis of childhood development in both apes and humans. The children involved ranged from 3 to 7.When chimpanzees were compared to human children, both being under 6, they always surpassed the humans. Especially in spatial relations. BUT, then the chimp development just stopped. They never got past age 6. They were done. But the human children first caught up to the chimps, and then surpassed them for the next 20 years. It would seem the humans got a slower start, but then later caught up (at about 6yrs), then way surpassed.Im not trying to be racist in any way (and it is a shame I have to even say that). But this is biology.And lower primates seem to always be ahead at 4 yrs, but not for long.I havent even thought of the comparative study for 25 yrs...UNTIL I read your post. Gives me something to chew on. Thx

Interesting speculation with a big dose of wishful thinking. Sorry to disappoint the deluded but there's absolutely no evidence:

A) that blacks are less intelligent than whites and Asians

Or

B) that blacks have smaller brains than whites or Asians

In fact there are mountains of evidence to the contrary, which is why this junk will never see the light of day in mainstream science, academia or society. And it is not because of political correctness either, it's because it's stupid. You're wasting your time. This idiocy will never gain currency, particularly as people of different cultures are interacting more and more. In other words, people are getting to know black people more and more. People are getting to know Africans more on more. And that's ultimately why bigots who preach this junk have a very, very hard sell.

To even suggest that there is a uniform group known as "blacks" whose brains can be measured is the profoundest type of stupidity. Which blacks? From which part of Africa? Somebody went around Africa measuring heads? Who? Where? Where's the data? I'm African and I happen to know that people from my part of Africa generally have larger heads (and larger brains) than whites and Asians. We have broad features. If you were to transplant my nose and my mouth onto the average white guy's face, half of it would be obscured.

If a real racial hierarchy in intelligence existed proponents could sit back and relax and let the evidence speak for itself. But since the evidence is non-existent they take to their keyboards, wasting hours upon hours of their time, arguing endlessly, writing copiously, trying to prove to themselves, and to others, something that would be self-evident and glaringly obvious if it were real. But it ins't real. For every delusional bigot on this thread I can identify a black person who is smarter than him, all his friends and family and every other white person he has ever known and will ever know. Now how exactly would an intellectually inferior race produce people who are substantially more intelligent than the very bigots who are denigrating their intelligence?

This is an area where people with deep-seeded insecurities and complexes try to justify themselves to themselves. I mean, actually citing clowns like Rushton and the other rogues gallery of pseudoscientific quacks in what is supposed to be a serious debate. LOL.

Last edited by canalon on Tue May 28, 2013 2:12 am, edited 1 time in total. Reason:edited for sense (replaced blacks with whites)

jfolpf wrote:Well, at first glance, I don't know if is there any correlation between skin colour and brain capacity, but empirically I would say there is, if you just compare native europeans with native africans.

You mean the same Africans who grossly outperform Europeans when operating in the same U.S. environment?