I’ve never been one to focus on money — my own or someone else’s — or see it as a path to happiness. Now that I’m at midlife, however, and helping to get two kids through college, hoping to retire one day, and dealing with the never-ending costs of living (my broken clavicle cost me a lot of money, despite my health insurance, and my car appears to have an electrical problem, no doubt a pricey problem, that I need to deal with ASAP), I think about money a wee bit more. I still don’t equate it to whether I am happy or not (and never will), although I acknowledge money certainly makes things easier.

I never made a lot of money in my career — newspaper journalism — but that didn’t stop men from dating me, or two men from marrying me. I am fortunate to have a wonderful longtime partner (who, as an educator, knows all about small salaries), but I sometimes wonder what would happen if I lost my job and was looking for love — would I be marriage material (assuming I even wanted to marry again, that is, which I don’t), or even dateable?

Let’s forget my age for now (and maybe longer!); by virtue of my gender alone, yes — I would probably be viable relationship material. But if I were an unemployed man — regardless of age — would the same rules apply? Probably not (although I imagine a certain amount of women would eagerly entangle themselves if he was hot; yes, we gals can be incredibly shallow, too).

Unemployed, under-employed and low-income men are just not good dating or marriage material in the eyes of many women.

That’s why the pro-marriage people have it all wrong when they say marriage will get low-income women out of poverty. While studies have shown that low-income women value marriage and have more traditional views about marriage and divorce than others, they don’t want to get hitched to a man who is going to drag them down. A man who isn’t contributing financially is a handicap, as one young single mother says in Promises I Can Keep: Why Poor Women Put Motherhood Before Marriage: “What was his purpose? I started thinking, ‘I don’t need him.’ He was just like an extra burden. It was actually easier without him.”

I’m not sure many — any — boys get the same message, and even in this presumably enlightened age, I just can’t see a parent encouraging a son to “marry up.”

Earlier this summer, a study (OK, funded by a credit report agency so I take it with a grain of salt) indicated financial responsibility and financial compatibility was more important or just as important as career ambition, physical attraction and sex and intimacy, especially for women.

It never even occurred to me to worry about such things (I’ve never discussed credit ratings with a partner), but that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t have paid it some attention when it seemed like things were getting serious.

What happens when a man marries a woman who has the education and skills to earn more than him? The couple can avoid violating the “man earns more” social norm if the woman works part time or leaves the labor force altogether. The authors found evidence of both choices. But what if the woman stays in the labor force and does earn more than her spouse? How does this affect the marriage? The findings here are striking. In such couples, surveys show, both wife and husband generally report being less happy about the marriage.

So, here’s how it appears to work:

Unemployed, under-employed and low-paid women are still datable and marriage material, while guys are not. Meanwhile, highly paid women are dateable and marriage material, as long as they don’t make more than their husbands.

If that isn’t proof about how far we haven’t come as a society, I don’t know what is.

Would you marry a woman who made more money than you?

Would you marry a man who made less money than you?

Would you date someone (presumably temporarily) unemployed?

Does it make a difference if a man doesn’t make a lot by virtue of his profession (artist, musician, teacher, etc.) or because he has low ambition?

93 Responses to “He’s broke, you’re not — do you date him?”

I totally agree with this article that broke men are way less likely to be in a relationship than are broke / low income women. I think it depends on what the debt is. For example, my ex-husband is 50k in debt. His debt is IRS (nearly 20k), a Cadillac at $400 / mo which he can’t afford, and odds and ends credit cards. That type of debt is NOT good and I would avoid him like the plague. It is NOT the reason WE divorced however. But … if you presented him to me with that debt in the early stages of dating …. I would not view him as marriage material. His income does NOT support that load and it also shows extreme carelessness.

Now, take my debt as a public servant. I have one 5k credit card and an 80k student loan. BUT …. my credit card will be paid off in a year and my student loan paid off in 10 years because I’m on the loan forgiveness program (they removed 18 years). And .. my student loan at 80k is $400 / mo. – which I’m perfectly capable of paying on my public servant salary. And my student loan monthly payment is 1/3 of that of my ex-husband.

So I have a higher debt load but the monthly payment is way lower AND it doesn’t involve the IRS and careless car purchases. When he told me wanted a divorce to pursue other women …. I just smiled and said, “Sure …. go for it!” He was dumb enough to do it.

That’s a lot of debt, K.B. Did he have that before you married him, or was that a discovery after-the-fact?
I never asked any former partner or husband about his debt. I absolutely would do that now — however — if he was making good decisions and paying it down, it wouldn’t be a deal-breaker. I’d just get a prenup 😉

I am a low paid male and looking at all these websites has confirmed my worst fears! I did not realise or understand the importance of a good education and job until to late and after my last girlfriend dumpingrme because of money issues I am close to giving up all together. Although she would never admit she left me because of money I know it was a huge factor, which is sad because she had her own house etc and I could of supported us on this low income as she earnt a very good amount of money. So this is it 30 single like normal and unable to get better work due to education mainly. I had one love but sjEd fast realised and I guess my replacement pointed out how little I earnt and now women over thd net dont wang to mnow men like myself. I care for thr elderly by the way and I wish I was dead, thanks for showing all men in my position we are better off dead no matter how loving we are.

I am actually engaged to a man like you John. I knew about his financial status when we started dating and I was not happy since he didn’t even have a car and couldn’t drive. We both have the same degree, the problem is that he just has no luck finding a proper job. I have always been uneasy with this situation. On top of that he comes from a very poor background. He is a very good person, honest and loving. Now that we are engaged, he has no dollar in his account for our wedding. I have spent so much on him and it makes him sad that can’t afford to treat me and take me out and that he owes me a lot. But he has so much faith in turning his life around which is why I believe in him and gave him a chance. Anyone here thinking I might be making a mistake marrying him?

Honestly, you are waaay too nice. Spending money on him is like mothering him. Don’t be surprised if he ends up resenting you or chasing after a women that isn’t so accommodating. You give him a chance AFTER he starts acting like an adult.

Women like you anna are why guys would rather stay single. Clearly this lady respects her man. He he definitely appreciates that. If hes trying give him a chance. Im on the verge of starting a relationship with a lady. Im quite broke because of an accident on a wrongly insured car and taking out a loan for an mba coupled with some health debts. Good to know that there are woman out there that would give me a chance☺

Do NOT marry him. It’s fine that you are giving him a chance, but you are in way too deep. I agree with Anna. Break off the engagement, take a few steps back. Unfortunately, I just ended a relationship where I was the spender giving him a chance too. We moved in together right away. All it did was make me miserable, and enabled him to do nothing but enjoy my comfy home and chill in front of my TV all day while I busted my ass all day at work. I’ve paid for everything including his child support twice. This relationship lasted 4 months and though, unbelievably I still love this guy, I should have never shared a residence with him. I saw the warning signs early but ignored them. He says he will pay me back, but honestly, I’m not holding my breath. I am certain my generosity and good heart made me a weak and and easy target in his eyes. You have to make them EARN your love and respect. And you do this by not giving your money and trust away.

My boyfriend is a CPA but he can’t retain a job… during the last year he has changes jobs frequently… I don’t know if is bad luck or if he is lazy… I graduated after him luckily I have a good job and making more money than him… Usually I paid most of our dates… I leave alone and support myself… He still leaving at his parent’s house… I love him but I don’t like that he is not financially stable… I just wonder when he is going to growth up… he is already 30
I want to married him but he is not stable

Don’t marry him, you will regret later! I was in this kind of relationship, you will never be happy as you end up giving all the time and you never get anything back, if he’s broke now, he is always broke as he will never step up, he’s got no money so he should work harder now and to get there.

My guy that I just threw out was great and terrific, according to him, prior to us meeting. He “was” he “had” he “can” he “did,” etc but after 7-8 years of zero, no steady income, always morose because he “was” he “had” he “did,” etc and then you finally had the unmitigated gall to complain that I wake him up in the morning (while I’m getting ready for work – I work at 7 so I get up at 5) and why don’t I co-sign for a loan for him, etc and yet I’ve had to chase him down for his portion of the utilities too many times and have had many arguments with him, but don’t I see that if he “did” and if he “was” and if he “could” he would help me, although he has never been in a position to, I finally said, I guess it’s the shelter for you darling because ain’t no man living in my house that doesn’t contribute in many, many ways, including monetarily. You can’t cook, clean, repair, help with bills but you can pitch a bitch? Drop dead is right.

My bf has 5 kids..i have 1. Ive known him for 5 years, but we have been together for 3.When i met him he was living with his mom. We moved together..we struggled together (still struggling, just not as bad). He lost his long time job right as we got together and he didnt seem too interested in getting another job. I basically forced him to get a job at a place where i had just gotten a job at. Soon we both lost the job..however we both started working again..then he was fired some mnths later..he did not work for 8-9 mnths.ALL of the bills fell on me. And he didnt seem phased. It was as if he enjoyed not having to work, but still being able to live comfortably. Anyhow..9 mnths After that period he got another job but he was making $9.00/hr. I started working at another job where i was making enough $$ to pay the full rent..and he paid what he could of the utilities. I sometimes resent him because i feel i do more than 50%. When his kids come over i feed them..if we go places i pay for them, if he and i go on dates i pay for it 95% of the time bc he doesnt make enough. A man’s money or lack thereof was never a big thought of mine bc ive always been independent. Now, i do. I just hate always giving and giving and it not be reciprocated. Im starting to feel used. Am i wrong?..i mean it’s not like he doesn’t have a job..it’s thats he isnt making enough..and doesnt seem to be trying to do better. What should i do?

Kyla, thanks for writing. I can’t tell you what to do, but it’s clear that your own feelings about the situation could give you the answer. If you need more from him — money or support, whatever — you need to have an honest, loving talk with him and set up some healthy boundaries so you don’t feel used. Maybe give him a time by which he needs to either have a better-paying job or a second job so he can pay more of his share. Let him know that while you love being with his kids, he needs to pay for their food/activities, etc. No one can take advantage of us unless we let him/her; you need to take care of yourself, too. Good luck!

I really want to know this guys name, because you must have kicked him out and now he is living with me URGH….to be with a broke guy is ok, to be with a broke guy that has NO hustle is NOT!

A guy with hustle (legal) will always figure out a way to support himself, his woman, his children ect. He will work several low paying jobs, he will learn a trade, he will continue to do what he has to do to not be a burden to you even if he can not fully support you!!!

I’ve read this article and I agree and disagree with it. I am a working female that’s makes “okay” money. I have everything I need and want. I am a women who “broke up with a broke man”. But the reasoning behind breaking up with him was not due to money. I could of supported him “John” with just my earnings. But I was tired of paying for every date, all the gas, all of the “extra stuff”. I would of gave him all the money I had to give if he was appreciated. Instead I dated a man who was selfish. He would come and treat me like a princess to get a little cash In his pocket so he could run off and spend it to take other girls out. This man was a handy man and would make a little cash once a month. When he did have a bit of money he never took me on a date or showed me he appricated me. So yes a women can date and support a man who is unemployed but it’s never worth the while or the time when he is going to be selfish and not try to repay the favors. I never asked him for money when he had it but sometimes I kinda expected for him buy a single flower for me or something. Heck even a thank you note would of worked.

Thanks for responding, Sjed. What I’m hearing from you is that you didn’t mind supporting “John” as long as he was appreciative, and he wasn’t. So when the two of you got together, was there any talk of expectations, other ways to be supportive if not financially, etc.? It’s one thing to support someone, it’s another to be taken advantage of (like “running off and spend it to take other girls out.”) But that has nothing to do with dating a broke man; that is more about someone’s character. Sorry that was your experence.

John,
No one every said you’re better off dead. Get off your butt and get and education, so you may write/spell more clearly and potentially earn a better living. I worked full time and when to school full time simultaneously to finish my degree. Plenty of financial aid programs out there.

You might want to “when” yourself back to school in order to learn how to “write/spell” yourself.

As a person with a bachelors, two masters, and my JD, I have more education (and student loans) than most. I will be the first to admit I can’t spell or write, many fields of formal education have little to do with either.

I have never in my life attempted to insult someone for being less educated than myself, however I am pretty sure if I was trying, I would spell stuff right myself.

*HUGE sigh of relief….and here I was, thinking maybe it was just me, that I was being too picky, that my standards were perhaps too high. I’m soooo glad I’m not alone!!!
I’m 32, single, no kids and never been married (yet 😉 ) and I just purchased my first home in February. The guy I’ve been seeing for just over a month is younger, 26, has a car, has an apt. We met online, of course. He told me he was a manager at a fast food restaurant. So I thought, ok he’s a MANAGER, has to make at least as much as I do, right? Nope.
He messaged me tonight and said he wanted to come see my but didn’t have the gas………
I knew I should have run for the hills when I had to pay the bill on our first date, but I wanted to give the guy a chance; and no, he’s not doing anything to try to improve his situation. It is very discouraging to a nice young lady such as myself that is seeking marriage and family but can’t seem to find any financially responsible and financially independent men out there. I would have to agree with the article above and say that is is a very important factor to me..I mean, I can manage my money, my man should be able to manage his as well.

Thanks for commenting Ms. Kat. It isn’t that you’re too picky or that your guy is irresponsible. To make a relationship work, the couple needs to have the some financial values. If you don’t have that, the relationship will not work even if he’s a millionaire. Wishing you the best.

I’m 66 and lost all my money to Madoff….every cent…I thought about seeking a partner on a web site. It was then that I realized that I have nothing to offer anyone in a relationship
So what would my profile heading say?
Once had millions…not a penny now..
It’s enough to make someone extremely angry…
I have no earning power….I received my SS and a small pension I received from a volunteer fire dept when I lived in Westchester NY
Remember that sone
I’m Mr Lonely…

This is so true! I’m 31 years old and I’m currently dating a 32y old man who is unemployed, uneducated, has no car, and lives at home with his mommy. When we met he told me he is a business man. Little did I know he was in the business of being broke all the time.
Soon after we started dating the requests for loans, electronic fund transfers, “help me pay this bill because I currently don’t have access to the internet” started coming. He always promises he will pay me back but when I remind him he says “the only thing I owe you a wedding ring, a house and some babies”. Only the heavens know how he plans on getting me all of that.
So every time I see him he is with a friend I call him “The Transporter”. So I end up carrying the bill for all 3 of us. To make matters worse, The Transporter sometimes brings his girlfriend with the expectation that I will cover everyone’s bill. I have considered walking out and leaving them with the bill. But then I think what if they get arrested and get bad record which would make it even harder to find a job.

I know that he has not been as privileged as I have been and maybe I’m overly sensitive about that and the fact that they are from the ghetto so maybe they can use some help coming up. I don’t want to come across as being snobbish so I tend to overlook many things. I even give him my bank card and my pin so he can pay if we are together just to try save him some respect as a man. But I have realized that if I don’t ask for my bank card back he “forgets” to give it to me and while he has it, he uses it without asking for my permission.

He is a great guy with a wonderful personality but I just don’t want to live off food stamps and I don’t want to have to downgrade my lifestyle to accommodate his. I do want to help him achieve more in life but I don’t know how much is too much. I don’t mind that his idea of travel is going to the corner shop or that fun for him means sitting in the street corner with a bunch of friends who cannot even tell you what the fiscus or GDP are. But I cannot shake this suspicion that he is comfortable with the idea of being “a kept man”. He claims he is not but his actions tell me he is comfortable being taken care of by a woman (be it his momma or me). I just don’t see how I will ever be able to respect him as a man if he cannot take care of his own basic needs.

To make matters worse, he has a kid from a previous relationship. I take responsibility for allowing things to get to where they are. He has no interest in looking for a job and even if he did he would probably not earn much. So my choice is either to pay for his education, ask my dad to help him to actually start a real business or to leave. I choose the latter (as of this moment that is). I just hope people don’t call me a snob. I just think I’m in way over my head! I need HELP!

Sam, plz leave him while you still have a shred of dignity left. You can’t be ambitious for a man. If he doesn’t want a better life for himself on his own, you helping him isn’t going to change anything. RUN!

I want to be honest with you and tell you that this man is a “USER”. Love is all about “give and take”, not “give and give” or “take and take”. It is not a healthy relationship at all and if he really loves you, he will at least be sensitive with your needs. You are a very empowered woman and you deserve a man who will love you right because you trully deserve it believe me. I think you are a decent woman so don’t allow him to bring you down because in the end you might not notice but little by little you will loose all your self respect because you have already given everything about you that you did not save something for yourself. I will pray for you and hope that you find the courage to decide that you deserve nothing but the best because God loves you.

Hi,
Some of my friends have dated similarly unemployed men and to tell the truth – the love the drama. They may complain, but they never leave their men because it gives the drama in life and something to talk about. Like you, they feel ‘responsible’. It’s not something I can get my head around, why women are so determined to stay in relationships with issues.
You’ve written this 3 months ago and I doubt that you have left him, but I hope that things improve.

Sam, it’s OK to love someone but you are not responsible for fixing that person’s problems. You can help him find solutions — job referrals, grants, social services, etc. — and emotionally support him in that journey, but you are free to draw the boundaries — especially when it comes to money. Being a “kept” man or woman is OK if you both agree to that because you both are getting out of it what you need. That doesn’t sound like the situation here, sorry. And I understand how a great person with a great personality can mismanage money (been there, done that); again, you can’t solve that problem for him but you can support whatever efforts he makes toward making it better. If you let him know that and cut off the money supply, his true personality will be apparent. He may still be a “great guy” or he may not. Stay strong, good luck, and please let me know how it goes.

Nice guy, great guy, whatever guy doesn’t mean he’s the guy for you. The posts are correct, you like drama and you’re being played. You give him money. Shit, I wouldn’t work either if someone “gave” me everything I need. You’re his mother and you’re in an incestuous relationship. Think about that.

I have always (sometimes reluctantly) worked, and bring in average wages. Anthough I do not live for money, I understand that it is a necessity to have some money, just to live… or else you are living of charity essentially. Now I never previously cared if a partner of mine had money or not, until now, since I have been dating someone for 3 months, who has no money. This has put a tremendous pressure and imbalance on our relationship, as in 3 months, he hasn’t even taken me on a date.

Tara, thanks for writing. I have always been the same way — don’t care about money. It still isn’t a priority but it helps.
That said, a date can be free — there are free days at museums, gallery openings, street festivals, open mike nights at nightclubs, etc. — or close to free, like making you dinner (nothing fancy, but it’s the thought), renting a movie and massaging your feet, playing guitar and singing for you (if he can), etc. I understand that men often equate their self-worth with their actual worth, and if he’s been looking for work and can’t find it, he may be depressed; we all would be! Still, kind acts are free; I hope he gets with the program!

My bf has 5 kids..i have 1. Ive known him for 5 years, but we have been together for 3.When i met him he was living with his mom. We moved together..we struggled together (still struggling, just not as bad). He lost his long time job right as we got together and he didnt seem too interested in getting another job. I basically forced him to get a job at a place where i had just gotten a job at. Soon we both lost the job..however we both started working again..then he was fired some mnths later..he did not work for 8-9 mnths.ALL of the bills fell on me. And he didnt seem phased. It was as if he enjoyed not having to work, but still being able to live comfortably. Anyhow..9 mnths After that period he got another job but he was making $9.00/hr. I started working at another job where i was making enough $$ to pay the full rent..and he paid what he could of the utilities. I sometimes resent him because i feel i do more than 50%. When his kids come over i feed them..if we go places i pay for them, if he and i go on dates i pay for it 95% of the time bc he doesnt make enough. A man’s money or lack thereof was never a big thought of mine bc ive always been independent. Now, i do. I just hate always giving and giving and it not be reciprocated. Im starting to feel used. Am i wrong?..i mean it’s not like he doesn’t have a job..it’s thats he isnt making enough..and doesnt seem to be trying to do better. What should i do?

Interesting whats written, i have been dating this guy for abit more than a month, he said he is a freelancer designer and director infact he is but he is not doing great business as such market is tight at our place. I am 24 with degree and good stable earning he is 26 have an art certificate. I paid for most dinners and food plans we have a plan to go out of the country for new year and i think its on me :(. He knows the problem and looking for a job but this is tiering

I would like some input as to how I can turn down someone, without seeming like a horrible person. I met someone online, we had a lot in common and messages back and forth were funny, full of great conversation, really good stuff. So we agree to meet for coffee, and he then tells me that he can’t buy my coffee as well as his own as he is broke. He is retired from what seems to be a good career- no, I didn’t ask him why he doesn’t have a bean. He lives in a rooming house with 4 other people and they share a landline phone. I had made it clear in my profile that I wanted to meet someone with whom I could purchase a home so that I can run my home-based business efficiently (divorce put paid to that, but I could go half on a suitable place).
He thinks we have what it takes to get along romantically, says he still wants to meet and that I will change my mind. I can’t imagine getting into a relationship with someone who tells me in advance that he can’t buy a $2 cup of coffee.
However, because I was raised to be polite and not ignore people, I would like to know how to turn him down without coming across like an awful person. Any ideas?

Tina, thanks for commenting. I hear you say “He thinks we have what it takes to get along romantically” while also admitting “I can’t imagine getting into a relationship with someone who tells me in advance that he can’t buy a $2 cup of coffee.” The two can coexist. Yes, you can agree that there may be many things you share in common (although he is saying that; are you?), but that isn’t necessarily enough. It isn’t wrong for you to want to be with someone who’s a bit more financially stable or an equal partner. If you’re attracted to him and you think there’s enough “there” there, it’s certainly OK to ask him what his plans are to get on more stable financial footing especially if you are not in a situation to support someone (or choose not to). You can say you’d like to split things equally as you date to see if you’re truly good romantic partners (and there are many inexpensive/free ways to be together). But if he balks at that, I would certainly question why. And that is not being impolite. Good luck!

Hi I been living with. Guy for 3years he has not being working since , he drive my car I pay for his medical insurance food and cell phone allowance and I help him with pocket money he says if I love him I can give him loan or open a business for him, he says he is tired of watching me me being rich and eating my money, is it my resposibility to help him with opening. Business

Linda, it isn’t your “responsibility” to pay for any other person unless you birthed/adopted him or her, or you vowed that in a marriage (and even then it’s not a given, given certain circumstances). The bigger question is, do you want to? Are you getting what you need/want in return? Is there a plan in place to become more equal partners (if you want that)? Are you having those kinds of conversations — and can you have them without conflict? Love doesn’t come with demands, ie. that someone has to “loan” a loved one money. It isn’t your problem that he’s “tired” of watching you “eat your money” (at the same time, is he trying to tell you that you could be more financially responsible?). If you loan him money for a business, what is his plan to pay you back (and is it a viable business, and is he a good businessman)? There’s a lot the two of you will need to discuss and get in writing; how he responds to that may tell you all you need to know. Good luck!

I’m 41 years old, and last year i got a disillusionment from someone who was extremely abusive and cruel to me that i was in a relationship with for thirteen years, before that i was not very wise in matters of dating, but that was my first relationship since high school. As of now, sadly I am unable to work as an old injury i sustained when i was in school got worse, and now i am on disability, pay my bills, have my own place, but as it said in the article, i get zero replies as i am looking for a long term relationship since i would rather not spend the rest of my life on my own. I have learned from learning from my mother’s morals and living around a liberal city that it is not what is on the outside like looks, money, or other material things that make a person desirable, it is what is on the inside, as that reflects on the outside. If you see someone who is greedy, then it reflects in someone who wants someone who will look for someone who has a lot of money. I know that is contrary to a lot of what i have been seeing, but i have been looking around so much, and it is all i have been seeing from so many posts on many different sites, greed, not security or stability. If someone wants to be stable, i applaud them for being honestly stable, but to turn away and scoff at people because others thing they are a burden? it depends on the person, not the class itself, and it is so sad to see people hurt from this attitude. Do not get me wrong, just because i have not found anyone i am not calling foul and unfair to single myself out, but when it is more than just myself, then it is worth calling foul.

My question is, is it wrong to date someone who is disabled? Even though he does not want to be a financial burden, but he does not get a lot of money, because going by the standards i am seeing, that basically is a coin toss between “No, your a worthless bum regardless of who you are as your a penniless deadbeat.” and “Yes, i would be more than happy because dating is a partnership regardless of your income or problems.” Because the more articles i read on this, i see more of the former than the later, which is what i am personally, and it makes me feel sad we have gone this way.

Jeff, there is nothing “wrong” (or, for that matter, “right”) about dating someone disabled; there are many people who happily couple or marry someone who is disabled, whether physically or mentally. There are even dating websites geared toward disabled people. I don’t think you’d want to be with someone who thought it was “wrong,” anyway. Please don’t get disillusioned. At the same time, it might be beneficial if you geared your dating efforts at women for whom a disability wouldn’t be an issue. Good luck!

This is why, at 35, I still don’t date. I’m under-employed, putting what little money I have from part-time work into rent, bills, and occasional grad-school tuition. Sadly, I’ve spent the past twelve years as basically a full-time caregiver for my elderly father (and my mother before she passed away), so I had to turn down a doctoral acceptance and lost out on the prime of my career’s growth years. It’s been made well-aware to me how unattractive all this is to women, so I’ll just remain broke, lonely, and depressed. The irony is that – especially with all the domestic skills I’ve been practicing basically daily over the past decade – I’d accept being the SAHD in a marriage with a career woman (I trained as a historian; we’re paid in pittances anyway) in a heartbeat!

Thanks for writing, Brian. I’m really sorry that you are struggling after doing what was a wonderful and necessary thing to do, caretake your parents. I can understand that you might be depressed by your romantic prospects; that said, that might be working against you in finding a partner. There are some women who would want to be married to a SAHD and others who would be open to flexible arrangements; those are the women you need to find. To do that, you might need to reframe your story and attitude, and embrace the great skills and nurturing personality you have. That is very attractive to many women. Please don’t give up hope!

We’ve spent the last twelve years on the same path in the same order, although I had to move my father out a couple of years ago. He died a year ago and I was injured six months ago. Also, my “lost decade” was my 50s. I had just finished grad school, potential employers don’t understand why I put my parents first.
Brian, I’m sure what i’m going to say isn’t new, but perhaps hearing it from a similar situation will help. First, please try to take as much care of yourself physically and intellectually as you can squeeze in. I know how hard it is to squeeze seconds. If history is hard to face, maybe something in related fields or something brand new. Walks and public staircases and books about stretching and yoga from your library and PBS and NPR are free.
You’re probably out of social practice. Practice being friendly with everybody – men, kids, dogs, as well as women until it feels normal again. People in customer service are a good start, they’re hired for their people skills. When you get in a better place it’ll be easier to find a good woman.
Part of it is that you’re stretched so thin that you probably haven’t got enough time to increase the number of women you’re meeting. You might expand to somebody a little older or financially secure. Find the right one and she won’t care about your money, especially in these circumstances, because she won’t be looking solely for someone to bankroll her. You’ve already proved an enormous amount your character. Most women I know value character more than anything. Those same women are looking for brains and interest in the world.
Hope this helps and doesn’t feel like preaching. good luck Brian.

If he loves you he will get a job of some sort and be a man who will contribute. Cut off the money and see if he still wants to be with you……or if he looks fora vetted “mommy”. I wouldnt really care if he made less than me. Motivation and getting out there and trying to help pay bills or get you a cheap christmas present that he bought with what he had….things like that matter. Anyone can sit and cry and be a taker. Most men want to contribute.

Could not have put it more perfectly. I am a female making above average wages. My boyfriend of 3.5 years that I live with makes less than half what I do. The amount of money that he makes doesn’t bother me, it’s his lack of ambition to want to do better. We were afforded the same opportunities but I have moved up in pay drastically in a few short years, mostly because I have worked my ass off and demanded more. He seems to be perfectly content making just enough to get by and it’s that lack of drive and desire to improve his standings that bothers me. I have worked very hard to put myself in a position to spend money as I please and he makes comments about my spending habits that bother me. We have recently started talking marriage and are nowhere on the same page for the price of the ring. It’s the only thing that I am expecting him to pay for. I am going to be paying for the entire wedding, rehearsal dinner, honeymoon, wedding rings… EVERYTHING ELSE! I am having to settle for a ring that is less than I want because he can’t get his shit together and get a real job. Yes, he is a pretty great guy, for the most part. But to sit here and say that his lack of income doesn’t bother me, would be a lie. To clarify, I’m not asking him to make more than me or even as much as me. I’m ok being a woman who makes more than her man. I just want to see some kind of determination to better himself in any way, which I have not. He has actually recently started talking about how he doesn’t like his current job and I got excited thinking he was finally going to try. Then he started applying to jobs where he actually makes LESS! I am getting so frustrated and I find it so difficult to talk to him in a way that isn’t just attacking him but money is security for me and it is an important thing. Not the most important but it is definitely important.

Well ladies, it works both ways. What do you bring to the table besides sex? Apparently some women think just having a vagina is enough. To date me you must have AT LEAST a 4 year degree, preferably a graduate degree, and be well traveled, like me. You must have a steady job with a good attendance record. You must also not have any kids as I don’t really feel like raising another man’s offspring. Single motherhood, in most cases, is a sign of irresponsibility and making bad choices. I see personal ads online with huge lists of requirements then see a morbidly obese, tatooed single mom making the demands. Of course us men must appreciate you as you are, jellyrolls of fat included. We are supposed to be so flexible and understanding while most of you accept nothing less than perfection from a man. Ah, the double standards of feminism!

“Single motherhood, in most cases, is a sign of irresponsibility and making bad choices.” Hmm, there are such things as being widowed or divorced …
It’s fine to have dating preferences and as long as you say that upfront — not interested in overweight women or women with children, etc. But please don’t blame feminism — please remember that for way too long, women were barred from colleges and from any kind of career that they could support themselves. For way too long, we needed to marry to survive (we couldn’t even get a credit card in our name until the 1960s, and men could beat and abuse us legally!) Now, 40 percent of women are the breadwinners in their family, thanks to feminism, and there are more than a million men who are SAHDs. Men couldn’t do that before feminism. Really, no one wants to go back to the days when women had to marry for financial security.

I know you wrote this in February, but I needed to chime in. Feminism has done some nasty things to our ever so evolving society. I wouldn’t exactly say that feminism is a god send. I am not going to lecture you here about my views, since persuading such a perspective is ever rarely listened to, however I will say that it is true that women are able to rise to sky in every financial facet and are now capable of showing supremacy over a household. With that said, there is no denying that, because of this, there is (and will be) more men who will not want to marry in fear of divorce and of a growing presence of emasculation. For those not familiar with this paradigm, It would be wise to take a step back and give this some thought…Yes, times have changed either for the better or for worse, but there is no denying there is a gender role struggle. There is nothing wrong with being a SAHD. I have no problems there. However, it is natural for a man (most) to have instincts that motivate his sense of purpose – to be the provider, bread winner, protector of his family. Take that away from him, and the result is… A man who will accept his fate as the men who equate themselves to anything less than satisfactory – without aspiration. Feminism has opened up pandoras box, and now lots of adversity with it – for our children, and their children’s generations.

Thanks for commenting, 3rd Derivative. Hmm, I’d say patriarchy has done a lot more damage — to men and women — than feminism. But, OK, let’s not go into that; let’s just address what you said: “There is nothing wrong with being a SAHD. I have no problems there. However, it is natural for a man (most) to have instincts that motivate his sense of purpose – to be the “provider, bread winner, protector” of his family.” Is a man who provides for his kids and protects them in non-economic ways less of a man? Can’t men be more than that; can they not bring home an income and be wonderful caregivers for their kids? Some men want that and choose it; others don’t. Isn’t it about individual choice? You are boxing all men into a narrow view of masculinity: provider, breadwinner, protector, what you call “natural.” While some may choose that (and they should marry women who are the ones who have those traditional values, too, if they want a happy partnership), others may want something other than that — let’s respect, honor and encourage their choices, too, OK? And, for the record, feminism did not strip those traditional-minded men from their jobs or fates — technology, job outsourcing, the decimation of unions, the Great Recession, etc., etc, did a lot more damage then the fact that women want to work (unless you want us to be “gold-diggers”), make as much as men do (which we still don’t), be educated (you want a smart woman, right?) and have the same sort of freedom men do (yeah, we like time by ourselves or with our friends, too). It isn’t a man vs. women thing, so blaming one gender or the other is useless and solves nothing (if there’s a problem, let’s solve it together, not finger point!). If you want to be the “provider, bread winner, protector” then go ahead and do it; find a woman who wants that in a man (and not one who wants “supremacy over a household”) — those women exist — find a job that will support that and have at it. Nothing is stopping you or any other man from having that reality. Really. Not me, not the women who don’t share the same vision as you, not feminism. Find a woman who wants you to be the breadwinner and provider, and wants to be what you want her to be, and go have a happy life. I wish you the best.

I’m glad to hear your views. I appreciate the reply back. To your questions. “Is a man who provides for his kids and protects them in non-economic ways less of a man?”
No where, in my reply did I imply such a thing, nor did the quote you took out, have a suggestive manner to that. But to answer your question, of course – I agree with you. They can bring home an income and be wonderful caregivers for their kids, but the message I was trying convey to you is that since we learn gender roles early on, it is to no surprise why as young boys, one would learn values that are geared more towards homeward stability and success, rather than other virtues, i.e. dependent behavior. Now you are right, not all men may feel this way, a good percentage of the American population may even agree with you, however you cannot deny that their are happy families with the man at the helm. Also, me stating that no problems with a man being a ‘stay at home dad’ should have alerted you that we were pretty much in agreement.

You say, “for the record, feminism did not strip those traditional-minded men from their jobs or fates — technology, job outsourcing, the decimation of unions, the Great Recession, etc., etc, did a lot more damage then the fact that women want to work (unless you want us to be “gold-diggers”)

This is subjective, any one person can blame the matter – especially if the opinions are biased. I can easily say current feminism is to blame. It’s just your word against mine. The “gold diggers” comment. A little unnecessary, no?

You also say, “It isn’t a man vs. women thing, so blaming one gender or the other is useless and solves nothing (if there’s a problem, let’s solve it together, not finger point!).”

I don’t recall saying it was a man vs. women thing, nor was there any fingers being pointed. I was simply stating my opinion on the negative aspects of feminism. You don’t have to agree with my views. That is just how I feel. I noticed your tone started to become more aggressive the more I read on. I can only conclude that you interpreted me wrong. That is unfortunate, but I get it.. Any way kudos and best of luck to you.

Tim, I don’t think it’s a double standard. Both men and women want their partners to do their fair share whether it’s financially or help around the house, etc. My mother didn’t work, but she raised 2 kids while my Dad worked full time. In addition, I have a partner who is not perfect, but I’m trying to decide where the line should be drawn.

I’ve been with my boyfriend for 14 months. At the 13.5 month mark he confessed to me that he’s out of money. I have a very lucrative job and am well on my way to pay off my mortgage 10 years early and early retirement. It was known early on in our relationship that bf makes a lot less money than me, but I didn’t care. We have had no fights or any issues in our relationship. He would pay for dates when he could, but other than that I would generally pay but it wasn’t an issue for me.

Well, turns out he is in serious credit card debt (not from clothes, vacations, etc) but he stopped paying off his visa in full in late 2009 and his usual acceptable expenses and the interest kept adding up so that now he’s $26K in credit card debt. He also has back taxes, and he’s at risk of being evicted in the next 2 months. He has maxed out his cards so he literally has no money. He knows he messed up and I’ve made spreadsheets for him (I work in finance) to show him how dire his situation is… and no, he knows I won’t give him money. I’ve told him he needs to go to his parents (sigh, he’s 38) because they are in a position to help him out but he’s too embarrassed. I also told him about Chapter 13 BK but he’s not interested. I’ve also told him that if can’t come up with a viable plan to fix this and stick to it than I can’t see him anymore.

As others have noted, he cares for me. He appreciates me. When he’s over at my place, he helps me out with household stuff without me really having to ask. He cares about people and I know he feels awful. I just don’t know how long I can wait for him or if I should just let him deal with it? After all, there’s no financial recourse to me but I’m not sure how my feelings for him should outweigh his financial issues.

Lynn, thanks for writing. It’s great that he confessed he’s out of money. It’s clear he made some bad choices. You are very right to help him get his financial ducks in a row and to ask him to come up with a plan. That’s being responsible and smart, and it’s the kind of action that either gender should be able to ask of the other.
I dated a man who also owed back taxes and etc., and for way more than $26k. But he started paying off the debt by working two full-time jobs. You need to see action and within some sort of deadline. It’s tough to do, but it will be a lot tougher — and unhappy — if you continue on as is. Good luck!

ohhh i googled this subject because i am currently considering moving things from a friends situation to dating, with a guy i have been friends with for over a year.

the last guy i dated about a year ago, he had this perception that i am rich because of teh suburb i live in. He would tell strangers i am a millionaire etc, all really embarrassing… I am not, i have a good lot of assets, (family inheritance put towards property which massively increased in value) but cash wise, income wise i am very average.

I have two degrees and work as a professional and he ran his own business. Whenever we went out for dinner, i had to pay, groceries, i had to pay, weekends away, the inference that i had to pay unless i helped him out at his work for a few hours.

Ugh so glad i got out of there. I did so for other reasons but once i did i looked back and saw i had been used all along for money. I suspected it but didnt sit and dwell much while it was happening

My tip is if you feel you are being used for money by some loser guy, you ARE being used, and run run run immediately.

The guy i am friends with now- well he is in unstable employment, casual work that changes each week. He lives in this unfathomable dump , and i mean a real bad ass student type dump. This is not for someone in their 40s. He could get something better, ie a room in a really nice share house for the same money. But instead he lives in this horrible flat, that i only just saw recently. Ive lived in some horrid places in my 20s, but this, this takes the cake.

And he never has any money to go out. Why am i even interested? because he is a beautiful loving warm intelligent guy. But i want him to want something better! the man/emo teenager thing does not turn me on.

And i am at the stage where i really want someone to be there for me, be able to rely on them , and i dont know if i can with this guy. Is it shallow?

Would you date a guy who makes a decent living (he can afford his own bills, put money aside, and have money left over for fun) even if he despised his work and had zero ambition to find another job or get a promotion?

I prefer to be single and poor than to be partnered and poor. A fiscally impoverished marriage is a gutting embarrassment. I am on a disability pension and live in a rented home. Decorating is not an issue as I am creative and resourceful. I keep my figure nice and I can afford high end (anything I need). I buy plenty of ‘whole foods’ and drink good wine and coffee. I have kept my age well due to 49 years of uninterrupted sleep and for selfishly guarding my fertility until the right provider might appear. He didn’t, I am childfree forever and I have no regrets. I can enjoy shallow pursuits such as shopping and caring for my looks. I read plenty of books of many genres so I see myself as well-versed in a few topics.

I consider myself to be a good catch. Self-educated. Attractive. Pretty house and garden. A boudoir for a bedroom. NO KIDS!!!!!! (And I won’t date a guy with kids by the way.) My disability is invisible and I manage it very well. I have my ducks in a row, as small as they seem.

Why would I want a penniless man to come along and stuff all that up? A man of means is an aphrodisiac to me. Realistically, at 49, things are looking bleak in the man department but in five years I know that will change for me. Besides, I love being single and celibate. I love being that mysteriously single woman in the room.

OK. Call me a shallow bitch but at least I am not making a poor depressed man feel worse about his situation by basking in my own stringent but easy one, right under his nose.

Kind of a bit worried after reading this article, I am not the smartest person there is, I know I’m not going to go out there and become an Architect or a Lawyer or anything.

But I do have a stable job, I earn less than the average salary but I have a stable full time job.

I think one of the reasons I never did the whole go to Uni thing was because When I was in my late teens my mother passed away, then my uncle passed away a few weeks later, I couldn’t really cope with it all, I dropped out of school etc

Didn’t get a job until I was 21, didn’t get, my license, move out of home and it really did a number on me, I was also picked on quite a lot in High School as I was over weight which I think affected me socially in terms of I have a minor case of social anxiety, it’s not debilitating but I do notice it and it affects certain things.

I am 24 now and I am trying to turn my life around, I have been in the same job since I was 21 (however after chatting to a few of the people there they are known for underpaying), I have lost a lot of weight and am really trying to get in shape, I bought a car and have got my Learners and am working towards getting my license, and when I get my P’s I want to move out of home, I don’t think I’d be able to afford my own place at the moment, maybe a flat, so I’d probably be looking at a share place for now.

The only thing is like I said I’m not the smartest person so I’m not going to be able to go out and get some flash high rolling career but I would like to earn more money, problem is due to my I suppose social anxiety the thought of going to Uni or something like that scares the hell out of me, I know not many people will understand as not many people have social anxiety but trust me it is INCREDIBLY hard to go out of your comfort zone in a social situation, I’m even finding getting out and driving to be difficult sometimes.

I would never not have enough money to not be able to pay my bills or pay for petrol or pay for any gifts, or dates or anything like that but I just feel as I’m technically a low income earner I would never really be good enough for someone, even though I am a selfless, giving, caring person.

Reading articles that seem to confirm that sort of “He doesn’t earn much so he ain’t worth your time, dump him!” mindset really get to me and sometimes make me think I don’t stand a chance, sort of makes me feel like a mans purpose in life now is money dispenser, his other qualities don’t matter if he doesn’t bring back a tonne of money.

Like I don’t know I sort of see quite often if a man likes a woman based on looks he’s shallow, if he just wants sex he’s a shallow pig etc

But a guy can be the most caring and loving guy in the world but if he doesn’t earn enough money for a woman’s liking, even if combined they have enough to live comfortably it’s perfectly acceptable for him to kick him out.

I just can’t help but feel unless I get some sort of flash career I don’t stand a chance :/

Daniel, thanks so much for your thoughts. I hope what I wrote was not a “He doesn’t earn much so he ain’t worth your time, dump him!” mindset. I observe that many women indicate that they want a man who makes a decent living, regardless of his other traits. I’m not saying it’s good or bad; it just kind of is.
That said, there are many women who don’t. Beyond that, this comment resonated with me: “I’m not the smartest person so I’m not going to be able to go out and get some flash high rolling career but I would like to earn more money, problem is due to my I suppose social anxiety the thought of going to Uni or something like that scares the hell out of me.” Let’s take them one by one.
“I’m not the smartest person.” If that’s how you feel about yourself, you’re going to project that. Maybe instead of focusing what you think you’re not “smart” at, you acknowledge all the things you’re great at, good at and pretty good at. It’s a different mindset; instead of “I’m not …,” it’s “I’m good at …” Despite the things you think are bad in your life, there’s also a lot of good — can you acknowledge them?

Then, there’s the social anxiety thing. You’re not alone in that. Lots of people have that or some version; in fact, 1 in 4 have a mental illness, from mild anxiety to OCD (my own son has that) to bipolar to schizophrenia and beyond. I agree; it’s not easy and it adds an extra layer on top of dating nowadays, which is challenging in and of itself! Add a low income, and …

But, the biggest and best thing you can do for yourself is get out of the mindset that you’re not smart (you are!), and look for situations that slowly stretch your anxiety so that it’s less anxious. I recommend the book “Monkey Mind: A Memoir” by Daniel Smith. Again, you are not alone. Which means there are people with anxiety or who have compassion for those with anxiety who will be interested in connecting with others with a similar situation.

This is not a feel-good “Kumbaya” thing; everyone is good at at least one thing, and most likely more. I hope you recognize and celebrate all the great things you bring to the world; if you believe that, someone, and most likely a lot of someones, will see that, too.

Yeah I definitely get what you’re saying, I think looking back on it, it’s not so much that I’m not smart I think it’s that I lack the courage to potentially fail at something, which I believe rolls back to the social anxiety aspect of things.

Also the basic fear of the actual going into a campus and meeting all the people etc which social anxiety so cruelly makes out to be much worse than it is.

I agree with the if my mindset is “I’m not smart” I will project that but I don’t think I do, I don’t go round to people saying “I’m not smart” or anything I think I’m pretty happy and cheery around people I just yeah, I’m not sure really.

I didn’t mean it so much as your article gave off that vibe, I definitely noted you mentioning several times that it isn’t a massive factor for you, it’s more that I was on a bit of a cycle of reading these types of articles combined with the comments to the article the consensus I picked up was the majority was on the side of “if he can’t pull in a big wage his compassion and caring side count for nothing” and that just makes me feel like there’s a slight double standard that exists with certain things.

Like I said I’ve been trying so hard to turn my life around but I just get the impression as long as I’m not pulling in big bucks it doesn’t count for anything. Again, not you or the article more just the general vibe I have been getting from various other articles and the comments to these types articles.

Thank you for the recommendations too I will definitely check them out!

Also on the point of rather than see myself as not smart but rather focus on the things I am good at, that I am smart about. That is a very fair point however the point I was trying to make was it just seems like the impression I get is unless it results in a high income it doesn’t matter.

Being a caring, selfless and helpful person are nice bonuses, but unless he has a high income, he isn’t even in the game.

Daniel, at least you can support yourself if you live with someone. As long as you’re financially secure and can get an equal job if you lose your current one, I don’t see the problem finding a partner. At least you’re not unemployed, working a temp job, or working part time.

I have trouble attracting financially irresponsible men. My first fiance was broke when we started dating(weren’t we all in college? ), then came into a sizeable inheritance which he began squandering so fast I called off the engagement for fear that his spending habits would carry over into our marriage. I married another man , who seemed VERY responsible with money during our courtship (homeowner, steady job, attended university, in the Army). However, he lost his job shortly after we married, deciding to drop out of college and change his career path. We relocated to a different state so he could attend trade school, and I started my career in education. I’ve held the same salaried teachers position for 4 years, in addition to taking on odd jobs and side hustles to support us while he studied his trade. Its been two years since he graduated, and STILL not hired in his field. He held temporary job after temp job, until finally working at a call center, but he was still always broke. Not too broke to have a bustling social musician’s nightlife, however….NOT the reason we moved cross country! We discussed finances face to face, and I found out he had about $300 unaccounted for each month. I don’t know whether or not he was drinking it, partying it, or spending it on women,but I knew I grew so tired of paying for rent, groceries, utilities, dates while holding down a career and watching him live it up that I separated from him last summer, telling him I need to see him achieve on his own without my support before we can continue. I have my own apartment, vehicle, career and life. He is still unemployed and living with his band mate . Sometimes u just gotta let ppl be who they are. Broke men have broke ways. I found out my hubby didn’t buy that house; he inherited it and it wasn’t even payed off; the mortgage had only been $367 and automatically deducted!!! His dead grandmother had bought him his vehicles in high school, and the Army had given him his fun money, by direct deposit. So leaving the Army, his grannys house, and his hometown meant marriage was the first time he’d ever had to make financial decisions for himself, and boy does he suck at it. The only thing that could fix us is if I had complete control of our money and gave him an allowance. ..which I’m not doing cuz I ain’t nobody’s mamma

I feel like I was reading my own story. Men who are broke like the men we attract are broken.
The last two guys I dated sucked my dry while living the fun life. Staying up all night and sleeping all day. Giving me just enough attention to keep me hooked.

I have hired a relationship expert to help me fix my picker. Because it is my fault these men come into my life. I allow this behavior. And it needs to stop.

I have to stop feeling sorry for these men and trying to take care of them and fix them. They have a mama. Go drain her bank account.

I am a successful business woman who has her own money, car, etc. Basically I have my shit together. I am like fly to fly paper for men who have no money. Listen, I do not mind dating a man who has a job that makes less than me. Money is not an issue at all. And I do not mind paying for things from time to time AS LONG AS there is respect, graditude, and a thank you from time to time. This last guy was very charming in the beginning. Took me out for dinner. Wined and dined me. I got hooked and liked him a lot. Then he drops the ball that he is broke and has no money. WTH? I said, “So you are low on cash I understand. Do not worry I will pick up the tab this weekend.” — 4 weeks later he was still at my house. Up until 3am drinking beer, smoking cigars and watching tv. He would get up around noon and start the pattern all over again. He would cook dinner but other than that nothing. There was no compassion. And when he did finally go back home I did not hear from him again until he was ready to see me again. Which means he needed money. I am sure! If he was cleaning my house. Taking care of my dogs. Helping me with my move. Changing the oil in my car, etc. I would have totally been okay with supporting him. But after a month I started to feel used and taken advantage of. Plus I found out he was lying about being in school. Why lie to me? That just added fuel to the fire.

I wish I had of followed my first mind n ran as soon as I learned his situation. I am currently dating an unemployed man that is recently divorced. He has prior old felonies from over 20 years ago and got into a verbal alteration that led to his ex filing a restraining order against him last year. I put together his resume because I volunteered in the unemployment center. Therefore, he has gotten many job offers. However, the restraining order shows up once the background check comes back. His ex refuses to remove it out of spite, yet she still calls him, harasses him and wants him back. (He has put her on speaker phone). Despite warning signs and his lack of money, I have fallen for him. I too have found myself paying for almost everything if we go out etc. Most times are spent at my house or doing free stuff. No gifts on holidays or my birthday. Everything is about him struggling n trying. Yes he works temp jobs but its just enough to buy his toiletries and a bus pass. He has nothing much at all. No house, no car, no steady job and 3 outfits. We have great chemistry, mind blowing sex but honestly, its not enough. At times it feels like he gets all my benefits for free. I have put men off that can and have actually helped me, just to give him a chance because I see potential in him. I have become resentful and irritated at times. I care but I dont want to commit to a broke man. Money really does make a difference in a relationship. Its a sinking, sufficating feeling to be in this kind of relationship. Your partner should be an asset not a constant bill…

Thanks for commenting Tosh. No one can take advantage of you unless you allow it. Great sex and chemistry aside, if you want a future that looks different, you may have to make a hard choice. I wish you the best!

I’m a 54 yr old financially secure woman and I’m ready to retire or kick down to part time work next year. I own my condo and 2014 car. I recently started dating a great guy that is 59 has a 1st and 2nd mortgage on a 150k home plus is making payments on his 9 yr old car. He seems to be perfect except for that. I don’t think I can get past that and I’m afraid he’lol pull me down just as in about to retire. Am I a bad person to break up because of that?

Hi Donnal,
I know how you feel – I’ve just broken up with someone because of being in a similar situation. I’m 54, financially secure, own my own home, have a high-paying job. He is a lovely guy, a few years younger than me, and spoilt me totally. However, he has no home, has loans, pays child support for 2 children, and has a job that doesn’t have a lot of long-term prospects. He’s struggling to pay his bills each week. I decided that there were 3 things I really wanted in a partner: 1 – treated me well. 2 – financially secure. 3 – my intellectual equal. Unfortunately – he dipped out on the final two. I possibly could have dealt with No 3, but really, No. 2 is non-negotiable. I have had to work very hard to get myself into the financial position I am. I was an orphan, and I divorced when my children were young. I had to really struggle to get my home, and succeed at work, and I do not want to be in a position where a roof over my head is at risk.

I am about 40 years old and had no/unstable jobs the last 5 years. I had a stable job before that, for 3 years, until the financial crisis and merger closed by department. Before that I had different jobs but only a few weeks of employment gap.

Because of savings I have enough cash, plus a small amount in retirement. I have no debt, with education debt completely paid off last year.

Women really dig me, but I have low self-esteem and don’t feel comfortable dating. I occasionally travel and visit family, and while there I help with cooking, trash, change diapers, get dishes done, take the kids to school, park, library, and activities. Everything a women would want except I don’t spend, not until I have a stable job and stable cash flow.

I am not dating because I have no job and no stable income, and very high stress from all of this because I am getting older and finally after doing so many family activities wants to settle down.

Doesn’t matter what has happened in society or the economy over the past 50 years. Millions of years of evolution means that the lizard brain still rules.
Poor men have a low probability of marrying a rich woman, but a poor woman’s chances of marrying a rich man is substantially better (as long as she’s young and hot). Assuming a marriage has occurred, a woman will look down upon a man who has gone down in financial status, whereas a man will not look down upon a woman who does down in financial status. However, as time goes on, a man will feel less attracted to his wife as she gets older, fatter, older, and wrinklier. That’s why age-defying cosmetics and plastic surgery is a multi-billion dollar industry for women. Can you name a cosmetics age-defying line for men? When you go to the plastic surgery, what % are women vs. men?

This phenomena is not exclusive to the USA. Same thing everywhere around the world.

The lizard brain rules only when people allow it to rule. Are we attracted to young and hot? Yes (women, too). Do we dump someone because we’re attracted to that? Sometimes yes but for the most part, no (remember, women ask for divorce two-thirds of the time).
Most wealthy women want to marry a man who is equal (except for some wealthy women who look for a man who’s younger and hotter in which case, duh). I know many women in long-term marriages who did not look down on their husbands during the Great Recession and he lost his job (or had it significantly reduced). Many went back into the workforce full force. Sure, women use age-defying cosmetics and procedures more then men do (but men are just as vain about that stuff) — not necessarily because of their love lives, but their careers. There are many women who don’t care about a man’s portfolio and poower and there are many men who don’t care about a woman’s age and external beauty — those are the people who are happily forming partnerships that are deeply satisfying. So, look in the mirror first and figure out what you want; if it’s youth and beauty, great. Good luck. If it’s a deeply satisfying partnership based on more than just that, great. Good luck. There isn’t a right or wrong, but all of us know what we want and what we attract. Good luck!

Are people not allowed to have preferences? I wouldn’t date a smoker — would you judge me for that? I wouldn’t date a meth head — would you judge me for that? I wouldn’t date a pedophile — would you judge me for that? I wouldn’t date a man with restraining orders against him — would you judge me for that? I wouldn’t date an obese man — would you judge me for that? There are some women who would date those men — don’t women marry convicts? — but I’m not interested, and that has nothing to do with lizards or brains. I wouldn’t judge you if you weren’t interested in the female smokers, abusers, meth heads, BBWs either. We like what we like, period. I never was attracted to short men but my boyfriend is my height — doesn’t matter because the rest of him is awesome. As I said, “The lizard brain rules only when people allow it to rule.” I have made exceptions as have many other people.

Now you go to some extreme examples using convicts and drug abusers to try to prove your point. I’m merely stating a simple fact that men are cool with dating women shorter than them, but most women (98.8%) of women don’t want to date men shorter then them. It seems you don’t want to agree with this simple observation.

I have my own house living and supporting my two boys and 3 animals that I love very much. My both sons have jobs, one has a full-time job working 15 hr. days and the other part-time because he’s still in school. I teach them about budgeting and one is great at saving, the other not so good but still make him pay me something every month. I’m in a serious relationship with a man for over 5 years now, love him very much, he’s perfect for me in many ways but his business is doing poorly and he’s completely broke even having to sell his house very soon. I pay for a lot but because his situation is so bad and hasn’t and doesn’t seem to be getting better, I’m really leaning on not having him live with me which is something we’ve talked about doing for many years now. I don’t think he can contribute to my living situation and I can’t afford him too but if I break up with him because I’m fed up of his lack of money and his big debts that makes me appear to be an awful human being, not taking him in and breaking up with him at his lowest point financially. I just don’t know what to do.

There is this guy I am with. We have only been seeing each other for around 2 months. I met him online. I am 35 and he is 46. I thought he was 40 when I first met him. Found out he was 46 later on. He looks young for his age but.

I have a full time stable job and rent my own place. He is unemployed and shares with 3 Middle Eastern men. He is Spanish. Has his Citizenship. He has been in my country since 2009. Said he has worked the majority of the time since he has been here and is studying accounting. He is out of dept as well and lives on the dole (government benefits) to help him get by till he finds work.

We went out on a couple of dates at first. He always paid but now don’t anymore because of this. He has always treated me well and accepted things about me as well. He seems so nice but having doubts. Anxiety as well because I don’t want to end up having to support him. I told him if he asks me for money he is out the door. He has not yet which is good. But still… Only early days.

I have been in a situation before where I lived with someone who was a Trainee. Paid for almost everything. Most the rent and bills. Regretted not dumping him sooner because after he got himself sorted out. No thanks to me. He ended up dumping me!

I never want to be in that situation again and red flags are starting to show. I want a guy with a bit more stability in his life. I never want to have to support someone financially again. It should be 50/50 when the relationship gets more serious.

I am not to fussed about money. I don’t have to be with someone who earns $100,000, $200,000 a year. But would like to be with a partner wheo earns enough that we get by comfortably.

I feel bad that I feel like dumping him but I seem to attract these type of guys a fair bit and want to break out of that cycle as well.

I asked my husband for a divorce because he did not work for several years despite having two impressive degrees, did not want to do anything and other problems that I will not get into. Needless to say, we tried working on them but to no avail. Also my husband was my first love; the thought of getting into the dating seen in my late thirties was nothing short of daunting. I figured I would just focus on my kids and career. Maybe date in 10 years.
Enter my someone slap me phase. During my separation, i met mr.SoWrong. We would talk and smile like high schoolers. And to his credit before things got heated , he admitted that he served a couple ( yes, a couple) of brief sentences in jail for drug dealing. Not a good thing, I mean I was always described as a goody two shoes. He smoked and although employed he was so broke. But somehow, my highly educated, professional behind began a passionate sexual relationship with this guy. I mean, I embarrass myself, really. I was so into him that over time I helped him- to the tune of about $1800. I mean there were other guys who wanted to date me. Geez, I wasn’t even ready to be out there! Somehow, I told myself it was okay, when I knew it was not. I mean, what is wrong with me?
So now, I’ve learned to listen to my gut- I could have avoided a doomed marriage, a drawn out divorce because my exhusband did not want it ( even though nothing got better) and a rebound relationship. Back to kids and career and so much happier to boot.
Maybe in ten years though…

I am 31 year old woman who had worked very hard to be successful. I have a phd and a successful consulting firm that brought in 6 figures in its first year. My hubby did not complete post secondary. He struggled with an English course and ended up washing out of a program. He is always jumping from job to job and they never pay much but he works hard and is always employed. He contributes everything to our joint expenses and really doesn’t spend much on himself but it’s still so little it can be difficult because it places nearly all of the financial burden on me. It’s not a deal breaker for me because he is truly an amazing man. He’s been incredibly supportive of me through my education and with my struggles with a few health problems, he does most of the house work, and he’s even going to take time off with our baby were expecting. I guess for me it wasn’t a deal breaker but it would be much easier if he could make even 30k a year. I love him dearly but do find I sometimes get resentful. For example, a few years ago I was extremely stressed out and hated my job to the point that it seriously affected my health (including complicating a heart condition). I wanted to quit but I could not depend on him to support us until I found something and that really sucked. Anyhow, I think it is something to consider when choosing a mate but I also think it’s important to consider what they bring overall to the relationship. Are they helpful around the house? Are they emotionally supportive? Do they spend more time with the kids?

My wife is a doctor and I never graduated high school. We have been married 16 years. I have not worked for the last 12 years mainly just clean the house make lunch to take to her and cook dinner for when she gets home. Rest of the time I work out, if I where to work I would make minimum wage at this point and it would be more of a problem with the schedule. My wife wants to take trips all the time and attends conferences in other states and always wants me to come along with her. So I really could not have a job as I would be missing to many days traveling with my wife. She makes a lot of money and there really is no reason for me to work. I don’t spend money on anything really as all I do is stay home and workout in my garage.

I could not agree with this post or the above mentioned red pill philosophy more. My experience in hand being the primary example. Two years ago, I was conceivably by all means (in my mind anyway) “marriage material.” At 28, I had a usable degree, stable state government job, one paid off vehicle out of two, zero credit card debt, no student loans, no mortgage, and no children. I saved more money by having a work friend as a roommate. As a bonus I would always joke with my partners they would never have to deal with in-laws. At that time, I had a steady girlfriend of over a year, and never had trouble with women before. Then I was placed on leave for over a year while my shooting was investigated, and when it was deemed justified I was able to return to work, but chose not to.
Where was my supposed loving girlfriend at the time when I couldn’t work? Increasingly pushing me out of her life, because now I was living on savings, watching every dollar going out. Now that I was no longer “useful” to her social, and economic prosperity, I was old news. Marriage and children were all up for discussion, until the point I chose to follow a different carrier path, and that would mean I would do without for a few years while I pursed my graduate degree.
So now at 30, I still have little debt, a unusable degree, a far lower paying job, and trying to start over. How’s my love life going? It’s not. I don’t have to many preferences either, just no children. Short, tall, thin, a few extra, any race, doesn’t bother me. Though it seems I’m not of value until I return to my previous earning power, where a woman can say “look mom he’s a good guy.” That way she, and her mother can say yes he does ____ for a living, he has no problem taking care of the household.

I think men have it harder as far as obtaining a stable job, and keeping it. When looking for and dating a man you have to pay close attention to his values and his ambition. Money is not an issue unless it’s an issue. What i mean is relationships shouldn’t be solely based on the amount of money you make. If you are really in love live within the household income. A man should either work or be looking for work period. If you are unemployed your job is to find a job, that’s what a real man does. Women should encourage that man. Men let’s be men and take care of our women, and women fight for your man it will make him fight for what you want.

Do not marry a man who cannot take care of himself. If he can’t afford an apartment, all the utilities, a car payment, grocery, and save a little money all by himself, don’t get involved. It was the biggest mistake I ever made and 15yrs later I’m still waiting for this 40yr old to get it together. I don’t care what anyone tells you, if he/she cannot take care of the basic necessities of life, they will always be looking for someone to “help them out”. A woman will never ever ever respect a man who always has his hands out.