I think that I am in the minority here in that I identify with the terms "secular" or "secular humanist" more than the term atheist.

Me too. I call myself many things, depending on the context. Atheist is only one of them, and often the last, because its a negative claim. I prefer open-minded skeptic, secular humanist, and others. Secular humanist at least begins to talk about things I do support, rather than just referring to something I don't believe at all. If religions went away, atheist would be a meaningless term.

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If we ever travel thousands of light years to a planet inhabited by intelligent life, let's just make patterns in their crops and leave.

I think that I am in the minority here in that I identify with the terms "secular" or "secular humanist" more than the term atheist.

Agreed. But in a way that's even more confusing, as most people have no idea what it means. I find it almost more difficult to explain, because eventually, the conversation still ends up on god-beliefs, or lack thereof. It's easier to just get it out of the way, for me (my subjective experience, YMMV).

I think humanism is a better description of me and my beliefs than atheism is, simply because it identifies what I am rather than what I am not. It doesn't come up all that often, but I'm taking Comparative World Religions as an online class for summer semester and humanist is how I intend to describe myself, should I need to do so.

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“Be skeptical. But when you get proof, accept proof.” –Michael Specter

I think that I am in the minority here in that I identify with the terms "secular" or "secular humanist" more than the term atheist.

Agreed. But in a way that's even more confusing, as most people have no idea what it means. I find it almost more difficult to explain, because eventually, the conversation still ends up on god-beliefs, or lack thereof. It's easier to just get it out of the way, for me (my subjective experience, YMMV).

Yeah. I often get blank, polite looks. If they are interested enough, they can go home and look it up. Sometimes folks look downright shocked. I mean, I'm so nice! How could I possibly be "secular," which is a very dirty word in some religious circles. But much of the time I get "me too!" or "my dad is secular but I...."

I think humanism is a better description of me and my beliefs than atheism is, simply because it identifies what I am rather than what I am not. It doesn't come up all that often, but I'm taking Comparative World Religions as an online class for summer semester and humanist is how I intend to describe myself, should I need to do so.

What do you call someone like myself - a closeted agnostic atheist (I know, besides a fraud)?

If I attend church with my family, but stay out of the fundy-babble and generally dodge the issue "publicly" - am I a atheistic-pseudo-xian?

It's maddening... but it keeps the peace at home and the home "together"

Nothing of the sort! There are a lot of us here (but certainly not all) who are only open about this to a comparatively small group. For me, my boyfriend and kids know, but I'm not inclined to discuss it with any other family members. I'm sure my mother has some questions, but she seems to have chosen to pretend and I'm more than happy to go along with her - there's nothing of value to be gained and she would be distraught if I forced her to know that I dismiss her god out of hand. Some of my friends know, most do not. I'm also lucky to have a very active atheist community in my local area, so I have access to people with whom to talk freely about this. We're pretty active politically as well as socially - I tend to be more involved with the political/social activism gatherings, but the purely social ones are a lot of fun when I can make the time.

Nothing of the sort! There are a lot of us here (but certainly not all) who are only open about this to a comparatively small group. For me, my boyfriend and kids know, but I'm not inclined to discuss it with any other family members. I'm sure my mother has some questions, but she seems to have chosen to pretend and I'm more than happy to go along with her - there's nothing of value to be gained and she would be distraught if I forced her to know that I dismiss her god out of hand. Some of my friends know, most do not. I'm also lucky to have a very active atheist community in my local area, so I have access to people with whom to talk freely about this. We're pretty active politically as well as socially - I tend to be more involved with the political/social activism gatherings, but the purely social ones are a lot of fun when I can make the time.

Frankly, I'd be lost without the forums I'm a member of online.

This forum has been a "blessing" to use some of the old vernacular... otherwise, it's the closet for me. The few folks outside my family I've discussed it with have been sympathetic - or at least listen and even agree with some of my points, but it's a non-starter at home and I won't go there.

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If xian hell really exists, the stench of the burning billions of us should be a constant, putrid reminder to the handful of heavenward xians how loving your god is. - neopagan

I'd probably just go with "atheist", myself, although in your case "closeted" and "agnostic" are also both correct adjectives to attach to it. It's just that, most of the time, I don't feel much of a need to qualify it at all when I call myself an atheist. It's kind of like if someone were to ask me my gender. I would just say "male", not "right-handed, five-foot-eleven male" or something like that.

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(I know, besides a fraud)?

There might be a few "closeted atheists" out there whom I would consider frauds, but you're definitely not one of them. You're doing what you feel you need to do to keep yourself safe in various ways, and I'm with Matt Dillahunty in that I don't fault you for that. The simple fact of the matter is that some atheists need to stay closeted due to their circumstances because in our society today, being openly atheist can be risky or even dangerous.

I'll also echo what Matt Dillahunty said in another area: Allow those of us who can be openly atheist to do so, to continue interacting with society, and to help change people's views about atheism until people in general understand atheists and atheism better and stop treating us the way gays used to be treated, and blacks used to be treated before gays. That is, let us do some work to help make society safer for you, and then you can come out.

^^^^That's why I cheer extra-loud for the older gay couples marching in the pride parades. They did the heavy lifting of just surviving so the younger gays can complain about not having enough states where marriage is legal.

I am not trivializing the need for universal federal marriage rights. But there is a big difference between that and having to stay closeted to keep from being killed by a gang of morons. And knowing the police will not even investigate, because it's your own fault.

And as athiests, we have come a long way from being automatically burned at the stake by a gang of morons. Because, unfortunately, the morons will always be with us.

Thanks for the words of wisdom pianodwarf and nogodsforme. It maysound trite but I needed that...

I have certainly drawn a bit of a line in the sand that although hidden away in my closet, I will not repeat xian nonsense. I either shut up in church circles or I "gently" question the thought processes I cannot stomach (when relatively safe to do so).

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If xian hell really exists, the stench of the burning billions of us should be a constant, putrid reminder to the handful of heavenward xians how loving your god is. - neopagan

Not always. There are some Christians who state that these were demons with demonic powers that Satan used to mislead humans. Strange how scarce they become recently; oh that's because of the power of Christ vanquishing them (eyeroll)

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An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

Interesting how there are all these other powerful supernatural beings like angels and demons interfering with humans, but only one for really true bona fide GOD. Because we are completely monotheistic, don'tcha know.

^^^That's a description of a Deist belief, where a god started the universe off and then left. But there is no more evidence for that god than any other.

Also, in a practical sense, there's really no difference between a god who does nothing and a god who doesn't exist. That's why I don't have a "beef" with deistic beliefs. One of my closest friends self-describes as a "Wiccan deist", and I rarely ever even think about it, which is definitely not true of friends I have who belong to various xian denominations.

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[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]: Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Exactly my point. Why posit a deist god who does nothing? The universe runs just as if the deist god is not there. You don't need a deist god; it just adds complication and explains nothing. Occam's Razor.

Exactly my point. Why posit a deist god who does nothing? The universe runs just as if the deist god is not there. You don't need a deist god; it just adds complication and explains nothing. Occam's Razor.

It's the way to fill a certain cognitive void is all. Those who believe that a deistic god exists are the type that need an answer to "Why am I here?" but don't really care all that much whether the answer is correct or not.

For some reason the answer "I don't know" is unpalatable to them.

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"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."