A place to discuss the Columbine High School Massacre along with other school shootings and crimes. Anyone interested in researching, learning, discussing and debating with us, please come join our community!

Ive seen lots of opinions in this board about the massacre and Eric and Dylan personalities and problems but I would like to know what you guys think that caused everything?, do you think that was only social problems?, only mental illness?, both?, family interaction? or that Eric and Dylan were born evil and video games helped to develop a personality disorder and hate on them?. Maybe this was disscused before in the middle of other threads but I would like to see a deeper opinion in this subject from you and what do you think that could caused NBK, since there are people that believe on Cullen's theory or in their own theory.

In my personal opinion I think that was social problems and mental illness what took them to planned such a thing after developed a rejection againts the system and society for their own experiences. But what about you?

_________________The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent; but if we can come to terms with this indifference and accept the challenges of life within the boundaries of death — however mutable man may be able to make them — our existence as a species can have genuine meaning and fulfillment. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light

I think both boys suffered from childhood trauma, especially Eric. I wonder if he was molested when his father was in the military. Rape and molestation are common on bases and the Harrises seem very secretive about their life. Maybe they tried to cover something up and that's why they over indulged Eric. Childhood trauma can cause rage and anxiety that lasts for years. Both boys were very disconnected from reality. I think Dylan dealt with something from childhood but to a lesser degree. Brooks Brown mentioned in his book that Dylan would have these major meltdowns over what seemed like minor things when he was a kid. That anxiety had to come from somewhere.

I don't think it is possible to really answer this question completely. A combination of Personality Disorders and social problems comes close to it, but it is hardly the whole picture.When I should explain why Columbine happened- completely drawn from my personal view- I would have to leave rational thought and engage in some bizarre speculation. Was Dylan really having contact with other realities? Was Dylan's Personality Disorder something that came out of himself or maybe out of somewhere else (another reality)? As he put it:

In case of Eric, the questions are even bigger and answers are hard to come. Judging from his behavior, I still think it is justified to classify him as having psychopathic tendencies (or simply being narcissistic, anti-social and sadistic, if this is more comfortable for you as the drastic term "Psychopathy"), but where did this came from? Both, Eric and Dylan were described as shy, insecure and vulnerable children. But why did lead this one of them towards an ethereal, floating and cosmic way of thinking, an self-loathing and painful way of feeling and a behaviour defined by apathy and occasional outbursts of rage, while the other boy turned into a narcissistic, highly motivated and organized boy, for whom rage and hate seemed to be a chronic normality? Like the other boy, he still was socially awkward, but his shyness does appear more like something that occasionally popped up in certain situations, rather than being always there. Instead of being apathetic, he carefully planned and considered everything (both the massacre and also his possible way out).

Ok, I left the subject quite a bit, but this basically just proves my point that the subject is simply too complex to give a specific answer. I bet there are a lot of factors, that we don't consider because we are not even aware of their existence. If you are a spiritual person (like me), you could find that there are several factors, who simply surpass our known reality and therefore are hard to come by with the mechanisms of logic and thought.

Last edited by Hale-Bopp on Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

Ok, I left the subject quite a bit, but this basically just proves my point that the subject is simply too complex to give a specific answer. I bet there are a lot of factors, that we don't consider because we are not even aware of their existence. If you are a spiritual person (like me), you could find that there are several factors, who simply surpass our known reality and therefore hard to come by with the mechanisms of logic and thought.

Thats very true, the subject is very complex and I bet there are things that we dont know yet but we still speculate about this and thats why I wanted to know the opinions, including yours. Even if I also think that there are factors that superpass reality like you said.

_________________The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent; but if we can come to terms with this indifference and accept the challenges of life within the boundaries of death — however mutable man may be able to make them — our existence as a species can have genuine meaning and fulfillment. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light

We need a forum member to join the Jeffco Police Department to gain access to the basement tapes then leak them. You'd probably get thrown in jail but you'd forever be a hero in my heart.

Any volunteers?

What does it have to do with my question?.

I doubt that everyone has access to those tapes there though so it depends in what the person should have to work there to know where they are.

_________________The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent; but if we can come to terms with this indifference and accept the challenges of life within the boundaries of death — however mutable man may be able to make them — our existence as a species can have genuine meaning and fulfillment. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light

I think both boys suffered from childhood trauma, especially Eric. I wonder if he was molested when his father was in the military. Rape and molestation are common on bases and the Harrises seem very secretive about their life. Maybe they tried to cover something up and that's why they over indulged Eric. Childhood trauma can cause rage and anxiety that lasts for years. Both boys were very disconnected from reality.

If there was abuse i'm pretty sure it would've slipped in his diary. Badass or not, he did slip the " I have always hated how I looked, I make fun of people who look like me, sometimes without even thinking sometimes just because I want to rip on myself. Thats where a lot of my hate grows from, the fact that I have practically no selfesteem, especially concerning girls and looks and such. therefore people make fun of me... constantly... therefore I get no respect and therefore I get fucking PISSED." And he's basically throwing quite a big part of why he was what he was. Adult, elderly or a teenger , everyone slips the truth between the lines. I do not believe in the abuse theory. We would've "sniffed" it out by now.

Since I have no self-esteem and have been bullied aswell, I strongly believe he suffered from the "seeing red" or "tunnel vision" effect. I do too. Even as an adult, I do blame complete strangers for my misfortunes and I hate those strangers with a passion sometimes. It just seems he was experiencing it 24/7. Being born with an introverted/always-scared personality ( I believe you're born with a certain type of personality, you don't gain it from experiences) doesn't help and it only adds to the "seeing red" effect.

I think Dylan dealt with something from childhood but to a lesser degree. Brooks Brown mentioned in his book that Dylan would have these major meltdowns over what seemed like minor things when he was a kid. That anxiety had to come from somewhere.

Apparently Brooks said Dylan bottled up all the bad feelings against shitty situations he was put through. I know that feeling. Life "punches" you repeatedly and you hold it in... and hold it in cause that's what you think you should do, but in the end it starts to boil and burst eventually. I think the personality Dylan was born with (shy, introverted) was even more severe than Erics'. I don't think he went through a .. what the major population would call : REAL TRAUMATIC SITUATION. But people are different, some find one little bad word as the end of their world. I think minor bad incidents affected him much worse than it would a "normal" teenager. I remember a girl called me stupid about 8 years ago. I remember everything because it truly shocked me. I hated her and I hated every woman, and still do, even if I'm one myself. Call it being spoiled or being crazy, the weak people WILL feel like shit because of any minor thing.

My post is going to look amateurish compared to whats been wrote on this topic, but if the event that unfolded in the commons (a year+ before the shootings?) happened to me, that would of probably set me a bit psycho and on a revenge warpath, (maybe not quite to there degree) then again i don't think id of been weak enough to allow that to happen to me anyway. My opinion is they just took shit there whole lives, and never fought back or didn't know how, they had 2 older brothers too only a few years older, that could of been hell in itself at home life growing up. Judging by cafeteria video they seemed to have a decent set of friends, hell of alot more than i had/have, so im always iffy on how messed up they really were, seemed to hold conversations better than what i can even at 25..

What still puzzles me to this day is how they had supposedly normal upbringings and we're fairly sheltered yet they carried on this massacre with such callousness. There was such a disconnect from reality that is so fascinating.

What still puzzles me to this day is how they had supposedly normal upbringings and we're fairly sheltered yet they carried on this massacre with such callousness. There was such a disconnect from reality that is so fascinating.

Yes thats the fascinating part in these cases but what happened is that they dont care what they have or where they come from, if they are unhappy, sick and full of rage for several reasons, the rest is not important anymore.

_________________The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent; but if we can come to terms with this indifference and accept the challenges of life within the boundaries of death — however mutable man may be able to make them — our existence as a species can have genuine meaning and fulfillment. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light

If you are a spiritual person (like me), you could find that there are several factors, who simply surpass our known reality and therefore are hard to come by with the mechanisms of logic and thought.

I would love to hear about those kind of spiritual thoughts. PM me about them if you'd rather not put them out here. Maybe we have something in common.

I don't mind at all to put them here, but it is really difficult to transform these vague, irrational feelings into words and concepts.Also, I agree with your other points. I also believe, that there was no specific traumatic incident in these boys life, but this kind of personality came natural to them- by fate you could say. Of course they suffered from difficulties at the outside world. But I think that:1. these difficulties only set in motion, what was already there. They triggered the transformation, but they did not cause it.2. At least some of their difficulties were consequences of their personalities, rather than causes. For example, Dylan was not socially awkward because he did not get along with people. Instead, he did not get along with people, because his social skills were simply limited.

As I indicated in my previous post, I believe that Dylan actually had contact to another reality/dimension. Although these experiences gave him insights, emotions and intuitions that were far ahead of most of his peers, they disturbed him emotionally. As he literally put it in his own words, his human/earthly side was unable to deal with the enormity and complexity of his visions. He sensed inexplicable peace and bliss in another dimension, but had to find out, that in this world there was not much of it. He felt that love was the mystery of the universe, ran through every living being and was the thing that pulsed through everything. But when it came to experience concrete, personal love with another human being here on earth, he achieved no success. Earthly women scared him. He was unable to understand or relate to them and his crushes were as hazy and dreamy as his experiences in other dimensions were. Thus, love transformed for him. Love now became the gateway to death. Love was something that became the antithesis to earth, life and humanity (which were the sources of endless suffer).Love and death were the keys to the door of wisdom, bliss and eternity. Love and death became synonymous- they became the enticing call of the mother for him to come home. Dylan's body indeed now contained something, that was not Dylan anymore. It was a pale shadow of Dylan, since Dylan already partly had left. His body was still on earth, but his mind was ready to explore the other world, the Halcyon as he called it.

Though their huge differences, I think that there were similar mechanisms behind Eric's transformation. But the nature of Eric's dimension was a very different one and I'm still not able to really make sense of this guy, although I sometimes feel as I'd get rare glimpses.

Also, I think that my explanation in fact does fit every Mass Shooter, especially every one who is psychotic (which is the case in the majority of them, I think). A lot of these guys got to places even more far away than Dylan. Who knows, what Jared Loughner saw, felt and heard? Whatever it was, it even destroyed his ability to use our common language. Who knows what Seung-Hui Cho saw, felt and heard? Whatever it was, it contained a girl named Jelly, who lived in outer space and called Seung "spanky". Wo knows what Adam Lanza saw, felt and heard? Whatever it was, it convinced him of the idea, that in order to save little children from the torture of civilization, he had to kill them.

If you are a spiritual person (like me), you could find that there are several factors, who simply surpass our known reality and therefore are hard to come by with the mechanisms of logic and thought.

I would love to hear about those kind of spiritual thoughts. PM me about them if you'd rather not put them out here. Maybe we have something in common.

I don't mind at all to put them here, but it is really difficult to transform these vague, irrational feelings into words and concepts.Also, I agree with your other points. I also believe, that there was no specific traumatic incident in these boys life, but this kind of personality came natural to them- by fate you could say. Of course they suffered from difficulties at the outside world. But I think that:1. these difficulties only set in motion, what was already there. They triggered the transformation, but they did not cause it.2. At least some of their difficulties were consequences of their personalities, rather than causes. For example, Dylan was not socially awkward because he did not get along with people. Instead, he did not get along with people, because his social skills were simply limited.

As I indicated in my previous post, I believe that Dylan actually had contact to another reality/dimension. Although these experiences gave him insights, emotions and intuitions that were far ahead of most of his peers, they disturbed him emotionally. As he literally put it in his own words, his human/earthly side was unable to deal with the enormity and complexity of his visions. He sensed inexplicable peace and bliss in another dimension, but had to find out, that in this world there was not much of it. He felt that love was the mystery of the universe, ran through every living being and was the thing that pulsed through everything. But when it came ato experience concrete, personal love with another human being here on earth, he achieved no success. Earthly women scared him. He was unable to understand or relate to them and his crushes were as hazy and dreamy as his experiences in other dimensions were. Thus, love transformed for him. Love now became the gateway to death. Love was something that became the antithesis to earth, life and humanity (which were the sources of endless suffer).Love and death were the keys to the door of wisdom, bliss and eternity. Love and death became synonymous- they became the enticing call of the mother for him to come home. Dylan's body indeed now contained something, that was not Dylan anymore. It was a pale shadow of Dylan, since Dylan already partly had left. His body was still on earth, but his mind was ready to explore the other world, the Halcyon as he called it.

Though their huge differences, I think that there were similar mechanisms behind Eric's transformation. But the nature of Eric's dimension was a very different one and I'm still not able to really make sense of this guy, although I sometimes feel as I'd get rare glimpses.

Also, I think that my explanation in fact does fit every Mass Shooter, especially every one who is psychotic (which is the case in the majority of them, I think). A lot of these guys got to places even more far away than Dylan. Who knows, what Jared Loughner saw, felt and heard? Whatever it was, it even destroyed his ability to use our common language. Who knows what Seung-Hui Cho saw, felt and heard? Whatever it was, it contained a girl named Jelly, who lived in outer space and called Seung "spanky". Wo knows what Adam Lanza saw, felt and heard? Whatever it was, it convinced him of the idea, that in order to save little children from the torture of civilization, he had to kill them.

The more I think about it, the more creepy it gets.

I love your post Hale-Bopp, your explanation is something that I was actually thinking but I didnt know how to express very well yet and is something that for me makes sense, thanks for commented your thoughts about this subject here in my post ;

_________________The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent; but if we can come to terms with this indifference and accept the challenges of life within the boundaries of death — however mutable man may be able to make them — our existence as a species can have genuine meaning and fulfillment. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light

If you are a spiritual person (like me), you could find that there are several factors, who simply surpass our known reality and therefore are hard to come by with the mechanisms of logic and thought.

I would love to hear about those kind of spiritual thoughts. PM me about them if you'd rather not put them out here. Maybe we have something in common.

I don't mind at all to put them here, but it is really difficult to transform these vague, irrational feelings into words and concepts.Also, I agree with your other points. I also believe, that there was no specific traumatic incident in these boys life, but this kind of personality came natural to them- by fate you could say. Of course they suffered from difficulties at the outside world. But I think that:1. these difficulties only set in motion, what was already there. They triggered the transformation, but they did not cause it.2. At least some of their difficulties were consequences of their personalities, rather than causes. For example, Dylan was not socially awkward because he did not get along with people. Instead, he did not get along with people, because his social skills were simply limited.

As I indicated in my previous post, I believe that Dylan actually had contact to another reality/dimension. Although these experiences gave him insights, emotions and intuitions that were far ahead of most of his peers, they disturbed him emotionally. As he literally put it in his own words, his human/earthly side was unable to deal with the enormity and complexity of his visions. He sensed inexplicable peace and bliss in another dimension, but had to find out, that in this world there was not much of it. He felt that love was the mystery of the universe, ran through every living being and was the thing that pulsed through everything. But when it came ato experience concrete, personal love with another human being here on earth, he achieved no success. Earthly women scared him. He was unable to understand or relate to them and his crushes were as hazy and dreamy as his experiences in other dimensions were. Thus, love transformed for him. Love now became the gateway to death. Love was something that became the antithesis to earth, life and humanity (which were the sources of endless suffer).Love and death were the keys to the door of wisdom, bliss and eternity. Love and death became synonymous- they became the enticing call of the mother for him to come home. Dylan's body indeed now contained something, that was not Dylan anymore. It was a pale shadow of Dylan, since Dylan already partly had left. His body was still on earth, but his mind was ready to explore the other world, the Halcyon as he called it.

Though their huge differences, I think that there were similar mechanisms behind Eric's transformation. But the nature of Eric's dimension was a very different one and I'm still not able to really make sense of this guy, although I sometimes feel as I'd get rare glimpses.

Also, I think that my explanation in fact does fit every Mass Shooter, especially every one who is psychotic (which is the case in the majority of them, I think). A lot of these guys got to places even more far away than Dylan. Who knows, what Jared Loughner saw, felt and heard? Whatever it was, it even destroyed his ability to use our common language. Who knows what Seung-Hui Cho saw, felt and heard? Whatever it was, it contained a girl named Jelly, who lived in outer space and called Seung "spanky". Wo knows what Adam Lanza saw, felt and heard? Whatever it was, it convinced him of the idea, that in order to save little children from the torture of civilization, he had to kill them.

The more I think about it, the more creepy it gets.

I love your post Hale-Bopp, your explanation is something that I was actually thinking but I didnt know how to express very well yet and is something that for me makes sense, thanks for commented your thoughts about this subject here in my post ;

_________________We're all going to die, all of us, what a circus; That alone should make us love each other but it doesn't. We are terrorized and flattened by trivialities, we are eaten up by nothing.-Charles Bukowski

I think both boys suffered from childhood trauma, especially Eric. I wonder if he was molested when his father was in the military. Rape and molestation are common on bases and the Harrises seem very secretive about their life. Maybe they tried to cover something up and that's why they over indulged Eric. Childhood trauma can cause rage and anxiety that lasts for years. Both boys were very disconnected from reality.

If there was abuse i'm pretty sure it would've slipped in his diary. Badass or not, he did slip the " I have always hated how I looked, I make fun of people who look like me, sometimes without even thinking sometimes just because I want to rip on myself. Thats where a lot of my hate grows from, the fact that I have practically no selfesteem, especially concerning girls and looks and such. therefore people make fun of me... constantly... therefore I get no respect and therefore I get fucking PISSED." And he's basically throwing quite a big part of why he was what he was. Adult, elderly or a teenger , everyone slips the truth between the lines. I do not believe in the abuse theory. We would've "sniffed" it out by now.

Since I have no self-esteem and have been bullied aswell, I strongly believe he suffered from the "seeing red" or "tunnel vision" effect. I do too. Even as an adult, I do blame complete strangers for my misfortunes and I hate those strangers with a passion sometimes. It just seems he was experiencing it 24/7. Being born with an introverted/always-scared personality ( I believe you're born with a certain type of personality, you don't gain it from experiences) doesn't help and it only adds to the "seeing red" effect.

I think Dylan dealt with something from childhood but to a lesser degree. Brooks Brown mentioned in his book that Dylan would have these major meltdowns over what seemed like minor things when he was a kid. That anxiety had to come from somewhere.

Apparently Brooks said Dylan bottled up all the bad feelings against shitty situations he was put through. I know that feeling. Life "punches" you repeatedly and you hold it in... and hold it in cause that's what you think you should do, but in the end it starts to boil and burst eventually. I think the personality Dylan was born with (shy, introverted) was even more severe than Erics'. I don't think he went through a .. what the major population would call : REAL TRAUMATIC SITUATION. But people are different, some find one little bad word as the end of their world. I think minor bad incidents affected him much worse than it would a "normal" teenager. I remember a girl called me stupid about 8 years ago. I remember everything because it truly shocked me. I hated her and I hated every woman, and still do, even if I'm one myself. Call it being spoiled or being crazy, the weak people WILL feel like shit because of any minor thing.

"If there was abuse i'm pretty sure it would've slipped in his diary. Badass or not, he did slip the " I have always hated how I looked, I make fun of people who look like me, sometimes without even thinking sometimes just because I want to rip on myself. Thats where a lot of my hate grows from, the fact that I have practically no selfesteem, especially concerning girls and looks and such. therefore people make fun of me... constantly... therefore I get no respect and therefore I get fucking PISSED." And he's basically throwing quite a big part of why he was what he was"

I don't think I will ever be able to understand how people can see an entry like that Eric wrote and believe he was incapable of having any real emotion.

I DO have a vivid imagination, but I know that these experiences were not my imagination

I'm listening.

When I sometimes look at a person, object or location I get a feeling sometimes, can't really describe it with other words than "black, dark, light, loneliness" etc and it makes it sound "earthly" but there is so much more to it that can't be put into words. Do you ever feel that? Or maybe I'm just delusional. I have been made by other people to feel ashamed of my own thoughts so writing this makes me kind of uncomfortable because I don't want to be seen as some loser who THINKS they're psychic or something.

Anyway I'd like to hear about those experiences if you're willing to share.

Columbine happened as a result of several factors coming together that created the "perfect storm"

1) Injustice/Unfairness:

Most girls attracted to the jocks, Jocks getting preferential/special treatment present amongst staff/peers, Bullying/intimidation of others within the school, Hypocrisy - saying one thing and doing another - present amongst staff/peers, After Jan 30 98, hatred/resentment towards the police and having to deal with the court system - compared to Rocky Hoffschneider & his friends not having to deal with police/courts over their incident

2) Rejection/Isolation:

Even though Eric & Dylan had a lot of social interaction, they still felt a big sense of not belonging. Not fitting the "norm" and not being "accepted" by the majority/popular kids gave them a strong sense of isolation/rejection whereupon they saw themselves as "different".

3) Anger/Hatred/Wrath

4) Revenge/Retaliation

5) Infamy/Notoriety - to be known, to never be forgotten

Eric and Dylan's act of murder-suicide at Columbine was the culmination of many factors. However, some of the biggest factors were: Injustice, Rejection, Anger/Hatred, Revenge, Notoriety/Infamy

These 5 factors play a big part in most school/workplace shootings as well

Columbine was caused by the fact that Eric Harris suffered from uncontrollable homicidal fantasies.

This is the real cause, because everything follows from it. Without Eric's fantasies, none of the other stuff (Dylan's involvement, the incident in the commons, video games) would have taken on the power it did.

Emptiness of living in white middle class suburbia, shallow society crushing their souls, mind-numbing daily routine, mind control(I heard that one),kill to feel alive, create a tragedy to make life more meaningful. Whatever sounds nice. Or maybe there is no reason. A riddle for the ages.

Columbine was caused by the fact that Eric Harris suffered from uncontrollable homicidal fantasies.

This is the real cause, because everything follows from it. Without Eric's fantasies, none of the other stuff (Dylan's involvement, the incident in the commons, video games) would have taken on the power it did.

How do you know that? How do you know Dylan isn't the one who came up with the idea?

_________________"I should've known a little better good things never last forever".

Wait, so there are people who actually believe the diary entries of Eric and Dylan released by JeffCo are their full diaries?

I bet my bottom dollar that several entries were skipped (to suit their agenda, no less).

In my case, I dont believe it and I doubt that most of the people here do it. But the entries that are around give a clue about what they were thinking and feeling anyway.

_________________The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent; but if we can come to terms with this indifference and accept the challenges of life within the boundaries of death — however mutable man may be able to make them — our existence as a species can have genuine meaning and fulfillment. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light

Bullying definitely was one of the main causes behind Columbine. It can't be denied that they were subjected to perpetual bullying by the jocks.

With that being said, I feel it was most likely mental illness. Depression was prevalent in both of Eric and Dylan, more so in Dylan. And obviously the little fact that Eric had a God Complex, thinking he was above others and choosing who could die and live. But with that being said, Eric did see a therapist, but it was ineffectual.

So how could've Columbine been avoided? Mental help didn't necessarily help Eric, it's just a pity Dylan was never open about his depression.

To simplify it as much as possible would still have to include a ton of differing factors. Eric clearly had rage issues likely stemming from his indented chest and the fact he seemed to feel things were owed to him. Dylan's journal and all the other creepy shit indicate he was suicidal before it happened, and it would have been a matter of time regardless. This gave him purpose in dying, they both knew they were going to be celebrities forever because of this.

I think Eric's rage came from holding all his anger in at home and school.Not so much as just a rage issue..I think he tried to be the perfect son to his parent's or at least in their eyes.I think he was angry at moving so many times and never being able to say or do anything about it because of his fathers work.I kind of get the feeling his mother was kind of an old fashioned lady from some of the stuff he wrote in his Hitler story and maybe he was a little pissed at her for not saying anything about the moving so much...maybe..He seemed more protective of his mother that of his father.I don't think he confronted the bullies or people that made comments and snickered as he walked the halls from comments to his clothing choice to his small stature his chest..Dylan was a mope the best way i could describe it.Even as a female i wasn't that mopey about love and all that so maybe that was something he craved but never got much of from his parents.Dylan thought love could solve all of his problems but the fact is it could have been just as bad if he had fallen in love only to see it isn't much sometimes but just a romantic notion.IMO,Dylan felt without love his life was over and not worth living and that made him angry that no one would love him the way he needed.Dylan's self esteem was just as bad as his need for love..I did find where dylan wrote things he hated and it said" Guy who are assholes to girl" or something along that line. Didn't a few girls say he called one a bitch and was tackling them hard at football and another say he smacked her after calling him out on a infraction at work?I wonder if he really did or another contradiction he made?

_________________Did you ever love someone and knew they didn't care.Did you feel like crying but knew you'd get nowhere.Did you ever close your eyes and say a little prayer.Did you ever look into their heart and wish you were there.Did you ever watch them walk away not wanting to let them go,and whisper "God i love you " but never tell them so.You'd cry all night in misery and almost go insane.There's nothing in this world that can cause you so much pain.I say don' fall in love you will get hurt before it is through,You see i ought to know i fell in love with you-Eric Harris

I agree that perhaps Eric just needed an outlet for his anger, and he just couldn't find one.I'm a generally angry person, and for the longest period of time, I had no way to release it. I just sat and brooded on it. It really wasn't good - but the only reason I did was because it wasn't socially acceptable to scream at the top of my lungs, or go punch someone in the face.For both of them, I guess they must have held in a lot of their emotions. And when that happens, people get mad. Really mad. It must have reached a point for both of them that they felt so much like they didn't fit in, couldn't handle situations, that they just stopped trying to care. I guess that's where NBK came from. And Eric's coping skills were probably affected by the amount of moves, as mentioned before - hell, I would be too! Moving so many times, so far away, in such a small number of years would have a longstanding effect. You wouldn't be able to build decent, meaningful longstanding relationships with people. Dylan, however, I think was just extremely fragile. Feeling so down about everything, and feeling rejected so often, but having so many strong feelings at the same time (like his 'love' list - he seemed to put a lot of people on there).Maybe EH and DK weren't really as close as we think? Perhaps they just reached a pinnacle where they could share a common goal. Mental illness and high school never mix well anyway. So, this rage and anger and abandonment finally came together, like a little mini Big Bang right in the suburbs of Littleton. They thought they'd get power - something they never had before - and over a huge group of people as well. ((Some skewed way of thinking, perhaps, that this would get them girls, too. In death... not much use though.No doubt about it that the two of the boys wanted pussy. Hell, don't all (straight) teenage boys? )) Being at the bottom of the totem pole (drama club is the bottom of the group... dylan was managing equipment) bothered them to a pathological degree. This has been far too long and messy of a post for a first post.

TL;DR1) No productive outlets for anger.2) Perhaps, for Eric, moving so much as a child (????)3) Inability to create meaningful relationships 4) Fragile/strong feelings that were never returned, or even acknowledged.5) Mental illness.6) Low in the social pyramid. Perhaps even at the bottom. 7) Seemed to direct their rage at a school, where most likely most of their social interaction would have come from anyway. They craved power there as High School is where you spend 6+ hours of each day, every day, for four years. Being at the bottom stinks, I should know.

But... yes. Far more reasons than what I have listed, and what i have listed is only SPECULATION as it is. We'll never know what drove them to do it. Trying to pull up a list of 'causes' is really just projecting our own emotions onto the situation, and wondering if they felt it too. Even if it is the most fucked up feelings we're pondering, there still has to be a reason we thought of them to begin with.

cal_hates_you.. i didn't think your post was messy at all it made a lot of sense, to me anyway.. I wonder if they had sex if they would have still did their crime spree or if they would have used sex as an outlet of frustration? For some reason i would have hoped at some point in their life they would have found a life and love and come to terms with their inner demons so to speak.I agree with the fact that they may not have been as close as people think as far as talking about girls and sex and what really bothered them but of blowing up stuff and NBK. I would love to know that conversation came about.

_________________Did you ever love someone and knew they didn't care.Did you feel like crying but knew you'd get nowhere.Did you ever close your eyes and say a little prayer.Did you ever look into their heart and wish you were there.Did you ever watch them walk away not wanting to let them go,and whisper "God i love you " but never tell them so.You'd cry all night in misery and almost go insane.There's nothing in this world that can cause you so much pain.I say don' fall in love you will get hurt before it is through,You see i ought to know i fell in love with you-Eric Harris