My OH did a graduate course in medicine meaning that she spent 7 years in university and racked up the better part of 50k of debt. That course attracted some of the smartest and most dedicated people I've ever known, people who already have top notch BSc's and Msc's from the best universities in the country (and around the world), they could walk into jobs in other sectors without a thought but wanted to be doctors and I suspect most of them are **** good at it.

Most of those people say that if they were faced with the choice now, they wouldn't be able to afford to choose to stay in education as they'd have about 50% more debt than they already do. That seems a great shame to me.

Leave school, go to uni and you don't appear on the unemployment stats, even though you may not be doing anything meaningful. Leave uni with a whopping debt that can be sold onto a private collecting agency.

seems crazy to me. also seems crazy that most kids nowadays see uni as a rite of passage and a natural progression from college without really knowing what they want to do later in life.

Or is it their parents?
MrsT and I debated this twice.
Son left school and got an apprenticeship, got an HND in elect eng. He left that job to work for a construction eng firm, they paid for him to get a degree in civil eng. due to circumstances he left that job and has gone back to his old one on good terms. They are now encouraging to do a mechanical degree to future proof him and benefit them.

Daughter however went down the college/uni route and after 7 yrs(1 ill health off)she is now a teacher with an MA and a huge debt!!

studying modern art because you want to be an art teacher at the local primary less so.

Mine did textile design followed by pgce as a buffer if no jobs came about. She took up teaching and in her first Ofstead inspection last year gained an outstanding report as did her dept and the school as a whole. She has recently gained funding and introduced an after schools art club for those with poor motor skills. She has also found funding for an ICT animation project for another class teacher through her arts council contacts.
So it's not impossible for someone with a "soft arts" degree to put it to good use

There are just so many "kids" out there with degrees and still have no idea what they want to or unable to get a job for whatever reason.

But it's not quite like a 'normal' debt - it'll work out more like a graduate tax you will end up paying once you reach a certain income then continue to pay for the foreseeable future.

most kids nowadays see uni as a rite of passage and a natural progression from college without really knowing what they want to do later in life.

Agreed with that though - if the mounting cost means more potential students think harder about why they want to go to uni, which course is best for them, what they plan on using the qualification for and when they are there they demand better value from the the course that won't be a bad thing.

[semi serious] For most uni is a thing you do to fill in time whilst you grow up a bit and learn how to learn - you could make an argument for the return of a version of national service that could do the same job for a lot of kids [/semi serious]

First off, I count myself very lucky to have gone to Uni before the time of tuition fees, think I even recieved a bit of a grant in year 1, but....

It seems to me that these days a degree is the normal stepping off point for education, whereas it was A levels about 25 years ago. Problem is that too many are doing non-vocational subjects which is dumping far too may young people into the jobs market, expecting graduate careers with a BSc in Basketweaving or the like.

Most graduates expecatations are just far too high, but then if you've been listening to the recieved wisdom that your £44K loan is an investment in your future life, it's easy to understand why.

A really good apprenticeship, (if you were lucky to find such a thing) would be my FE choice these days, probably followed by a part time degree. It's about finding a way to stand out in the jobs market and not be lumbered with a financial lead anchor until you are in your mid 50's.

edit - a bit like Treksters situation who can obviously type faster than me!

Yep I went to uni and now do nothing with me degree and recently got a job where I pay it back. It's not much each month but the statements every year really piss me off and I do try to advise people to take another option. It's all in vocational qualifications that lead to careers now IMO.

Most of those people say that if they were faced with the choice now, they wouldn't be able to afford to choose to stay in education as they'd have about 50% more debt than they already do. That seems a great shame to me.

Then they are not as smart as you thought.
Of course they could afford to, a debt costs you nothing until you pay it off.

Its clearly a mad way to start life. Also mad that most of the money will never be repaid, think you repay after you earn £21k pa, and pay for a max of 30 years.

I'm pretty sure that some element of common sense and personal responsibility can see your debt below £30k, but not by much.

Pretty sure we don't need all these graduates. My wife and my cousin were pretty good at their nursing and social work jobs before some berk decided that they had to have degree rather than experience and appropriate ongoing training. And as MrsMC does post grad social work training, I can assure you that the quality of some of these indebted graduates is variable, to say the least.

My parents were desperate for me to be the first in the family to go to uni. We are now telling our kids that apprenticeships or other vocational qualifications might be better. Politicians of all sides gave really messed this up.

Maybe if we offered a grant to all the academically able people who actually would use their degree for the greater good, and made all tje affluent pissheads pay for their own courses, some normality could be brought back to the situation.

I came out of university/postgrad stuff with about £40k of debt (before over a decade of interest!).

Some was on the SLC loans, the majority was regular bank finance provided to law/medicine/accountancy grads to help with extended study and exams.

To be honest, the interest rates on all loans have been (for the most part) very low, but that doesn't change the fact that I received no advice or assistance as a young lad, straight out of school, as to what this really meant.

Clearly, it was my responsibility to consider what I was doing, but at 18 you seem to be steered into university without much guidance at all. The funding for most is the least of their worries, behind actually getting a place.

Mine was a worthwhile investment from a purely financial perspective, but not sure I'd do the same again if faced with similar choices, it could have turned up very differently. The bank financed deals were no income linked, those payment just started coming out of my bank account...to the tune of £500 per month on top of my student loan.

As a trainee I wasn't earning much money and had £500 a month come off just to service the bank debt. Then I qualified and had a total of £800 a month.

Even if I hadn't managed to secure a training contract, the £500 a month would have been deducted (or not!) from my bank, which could have ruined me before my career even began. Happened to many, many friends.

IMO "lifelong learning" should now be a higher priority than university. The ability to retrain and/or increase your skill set throughout your life would make for a much more effective and competitive workforce, than trying to channel everyone through education before they even know what life is about.

Not that universities should be scrapped, but they should be scaled back and much of what is offered should be replaced by other provisions.

I'm still amazed people go to Universities to study degrees with no direct relevance to their career. It seems pointless accumulating all that debt when most jobs graduates actually get don't require a degree.

if the mounting cost means more potential students think harder about why they want to go to uni, which course is best for them, what they plan on using the qualification for and when they are there they demand better value from the the course that won't be a bad thing.

Realistically mounting fees mean that only the nice well-off posh families will be able to afford to send kids to uni and the proles will have to stick to non-professional jobs... which is pretty much exactly what the Tories want.

Personally I intend on moving back to Scotland before my kids are old enough for uni!

I'm going to push my kids into apprentice type jobs or jobs where the additional learning is all done whilst with the company. I done want them to come out with huge debts and I don't think we'll ever be in a situation to pay it for them it they'd be at private school now.

Then they are not as smart as you thought.
Of course they could afford to, a debt costs you nothing until you pay it off.

Only if their parents can afford all the other costs, accommodation, materials, books etc not fully covered by loans
Daughter attended her course 5 days a week, worked in an off-licence some nights and a restaurant at weekends and still managed to spend more than she could afford!!

Eldest grandson leaves school this year and had his sights set on the army engineers. Having cracked a vertebrae falling of his bike(as part of his fitness training)he has been told there is no chance!
He is now chasing 3 apprenticeship jobs.

Realistically mounting fees mean that only the nice well-off posh families will be able to afford to send kids to uni and the proles will have to stick to non-professional jobs

You see, that well used line really annoys me when folk talk about student debt. I'm not saying grads having big debts is a good thing but the income of their parents will have no effect on graduates ability to handle the debt - you pay out of your earned income. You could say that those from posh families who use a healthy dose of nepotism to get a nice well paid job after uni will end up paying more