Put down the tofu and take a step back! It's going to be okay. You can have your gluten free cake and eat it too. Food as of late has become extremely political, especially for vegans and the veganism movement, but many of the same stout vegan proponents end up getting sick.

Food as of late has become extremely political, especially with the “What The Health” documentary propaganda driving a message that “eating an egg is like smoking a cigarette.”

Seriously, they said that.

Yet for vegans and the veganism movement as a whole, the cracks are growing larger and many of the same stout vegan proponents end up getting sick after 3-5 years to find that a diet void of animal proteins biologically wasn't a match.

Special interest groups like the AMA, PETA and yes, even the conglomerate health food chain Whole Foods, have spent millions of dollars per year on pro-vegan/vegetarian advertising. Here on the Wellness Force™ website, however, I'm spending about three hundred advertising dollars per year in support of sustainable foods and lifestyles instead.

First off, I want to be clear: This is not a trash talking session. It’s really just a forum to post science I’ve researched for your reading pleasure. If you have questions as to why you should not adapt to a vegan lifestyle, search no more, as I’ve done the reading for you!

If, on the other hand, you love your cheese and soy burgers and you have no autoimmune dysregulation or insulin sensitivity issues and you skin, hair, muscle tone and energy are where you would like them, then skip this article and proceed directly to the nearest People's market; they are waiting for you with open arms. For the other 95% plus of the population, we have another mission: good health without religion.

I Love Vegans! Seriously.

I'd like to put on record that I do not hate or dislike vegans. Seriously, some of the best people I know are vegan/vegetarian. It’s all about love and education right now, that is all. The fact is, I just flat out dislike the religion of veganism, as it's only metabolically typed for less than 10% of the population. It's a style of eating that allows the follower to literally “flex” his or her food muscles every time they eat. It gives the eater a kind of power, if you will, and a way to show what they are doing is “better than the rest of the non-believers.”

The dogma of veganism goes beyond just being healthy or being a good person. I know by researching the truth and presenting the facts I will upset a lot of vegans, but the country deserves the right to know the science behind eating when it comes to food; not religion. Veganism is a systematic eating practice and lifestyle, where a structure of rules laid down from its key note speakers, usually high profile Hollywood celebrities directly funded by pro-vegan/vegetarian groups, express how eating animals and animal products are not “ethical”.

In the scientific world, based on long standing and current research, however, humans are omnivorous, capable of consuming plant, animal, and inorganic material and have been eating flesh since the dawn of time. The cycle of life on earth is only sustainable by consumption and assimilation of flesh and plants; it is the circle upon which all ecosystems are based. When one species dies, it is either taken back directly or indirectly for other species- this is the law of the land. See chart below-
a simple metaphor showing the flaw in veganism would be asking a shark to please eat kelp and let the seal go because “it's the right thing to do.” Well, in all reality and the scientific laws of nature, the right thing to do is survive.

Veganism & Government

We live in an age where looking back at the past 50 years, the tax payer based and government subsidized agricultural revolution has created such a huge surplus of grains and legumes, that it has allowed the surfacing of eating methods in cultural affluence, morality, and religious specificity. In other words, people now have the luxury of choosing what to eat based on culture and belief instead of the biology and laws found in nature. The human body was designed to eat both plants and animals; to deny this is to deny the fabric of who we are.

“We’ve been told that a vegetarian diet can feed the hungry, honor the animals, and save the planet.” (-Lierre Keith, believed in that plant-based diet and spent twenty years as a vegan but after serious health issues returned to an omnivores diet) In The Vegetarian Myth, she argues that we’ve been led astray–not by our longings for a just and sustainable world, but by our ignorance. The truth is that agriculture is a relentless assault against the planet, and more of the same won’t save us.

In service to annual grains, humans have devastated prairies and forests, driven countless species extinct, altered the climate, and destroyed the topsoil–the basis of life itself. Keith argues that if we are to save this planet, our food must be an act of profound and abiding repair: it must come from inside living communities, not be imposed across them.” – Lierre Keith, author of The Vegetarian Myth

Vegans are extremely strict in cutting most healthy saturated fats and exclude all animal products, including meat, dairy, and eggs (which are proven amazing sources of protein, calcium, omega-3 fatty acids, iron, and vitamin B12). When compared to the SAD (standard American diet) diet of potato chips, beans, wonder bread, fruit by the foot, grain fed meats and snicker bars, there are some benefits of being a vegetarian. Vegans, however, are not as lenient in consuming cheeses and other animal based products.

Do Plants Have Feelings?

They have a quest to “never hurt a living thing,” all the while forgetting that plants have feelings too. They have also conveniently forgotten that nature shows us a multitude of certain plants that are even themselves carnivores, such as the Venus flytrap, Roridula gorgonias, and Archaeamphora longicervia plants. So yes, in the context of ignoring nutritional body language for spiritual beliefs, the dangers of a vegan diet are very possible! (just as with any diet if the right foods are not consumed). A huge danger of a vegan diet is malnutrition, which is an insufficiency or imbalance in micro and macro-nutrient feeding. A vegan diet is very low vitamin B12, a nutrient found mostly in animal products.

Vegans try to supplement this vitamin or drink fortified soy milk. Soy, when drank in quantities to fill nutrient gaps in diets, can become toxic and the phyto-estrogens within the proteins of the soybean can lead to cancer, especially ovarian and breast type in females, as well as low testosterone and high estrogen levels in men. In addition to the ever-growing list of soy health risks, it has a solid foundation with tofu in vegan diets, and can interrupt thyroid function.

Soy promotes disregulation of human metabolism and growth functions via blockage of the t4-t3 hormone conversion for normal thyroxine functions; basically it's metabolic derangement. Vitamin D deficiency is another huge problem with a veganism. Vitamin D is crucial for the body to process calcium and comes from sources such as grass-fed cow's milk, raw dairy and from exposure to sunshine; all excluded from a vegan diet! (haha, except sunshine) Iron deficiency & omega-3 deficiency will also occur with an unmonitored vegan diet. Iron is found in green leafy vegetables, which is why a vegan diet is extremely high in nightshades. In some biochemical individualities, these vegetables can cause immune system loads depending on you metabolic type. Omega-3 is an essential fatty acid found in cold water ocean fish such as salmon. Omega-3 prevents heart disease, memory loss, and vascular problems.

Short-Chain Fatty Acids

Vegans typically supplement a lack of omega-3 by consuming flax or hemp seeds which have shorter chain fatty acids, however the lost purine content from not eating the long chain fatty acids is sub-optimal nutrition. A recent study by the American Dietetic Association (ADA) found that people who are currently vegetarian are more likely to binge-eat and take drastic and unhealthy measures to control their weight. In addition to the new findings, those who formerly were vegetarian turned vegan had showed an increase in using extra measures to mimic basic physiological processes such as using diet pills and laxative, to control weight. Foods suitable for vegetarians and vegans may contain sugar and processed grains.

Vegetarians may get too much fat and cholesterol. If you want to lose weight, vegetarians and vegans must eat fewer calories than they burn in the correct MBTD ratios, just like their meat-eating counterparts. The bottom line about nutrition is that we all need to step back, take a look at what we are eating and begin to really feel what the food does to our energy, vitality and mood. We need to learn more from nature. There is no religions in packs of wolves, there is no key note speaker for a group of whales. We humans, as simply just an advanced type of species on this planet, have the power to rebuild and revive this broken food system.

Veganism is obviously not the answer, and until we can change the policy of lobbyists in congress, who pay millions for the votes to benefit the agribusiness, sugar, and grain companies, the health of our people and this planet will continue to decline.

Losing My Religion

Food is not a religion; it's simply just fuel for our body, mind and soul.

Please know I'm not anti-vegan, rather, pro-personal health.

Above all else, do your own experimentation and see if eating paleo, pescatarian, vegan, or any other way of nourishing your body is the best for you. There are no shortcuts, and no way around doing the work of trial and error.

Support The Podcast

Aloha! Josh here. Listen, I deeply value your thoughts, now let your voice be heard. I live to serve the Wellness Force even better based on your words, feedback, and requests. (including how these episodes can allow you to break bad habits)

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The saddest part of this comment, is that the person telling you these things, is NOT qualified to do so. You cannot take an internet web page as the written truth. his source may be biased, paid (same thing), or outright wrong. Think about it. He is saying that meat eating is good, and plant eating is bad. REALLY? How many people through processed meals or not, have gotten cancer or heart attacks due to their plant based diet? Backed by supplementation or not? Zero. That’s how many. Cholesterol is ONLY found in animal products and the only cause of heart attacks. ( don’t be picky) Vitamin B12, is NOT from animals I say. And I say again, NOT from animals. It is a soil based bacteria. In the days of old when a person would eat meat, they DID get B12. And that’s based on the animal eating grass and other items STILL growing in b12 rich SOIL. The animal eats the grass wheat, etc. and then the b12 is on board. Fast forward to today and you get your b12 in a supplement form too. JUST like calcium, Vitamin D and Iron, ALLLLLLLL added in liquid form ( I grew up on a dairy farm , I know.) along with the antibiotics, etc…etc.. So before you “decide” how or what to do with your dietary life and carbon footprint based diet, try this. PERSONAL RESEARCH. Try it for 6 months, LEGIT no cheating. And at the end, if your blood work and your energy aren’t amazingly what you wanted, then change. IMO a true carnivore is one that CANNOT live without meat. Like, sharks…and felines. Dogs, can be vegan. Mine are, and have been for a decade. (Vet says he has never seen a set of dogs, as shiny, healthy and vibrant as my dogs. ones a beagle and ones a lab, BOITH rescues from the local kill shelter. He asks for my secret, I wont say, and he says, “Must be eggs.” HAAH)

Zach

Vegan dad, if you look at Josh’s credentials he seems pretty qualified to me- the dude lost over 60 pounds I think I’ll take his word for it. I think what works for you doesn’t work for a lot of people unless they are blood type A

Vegan Dad

Well if weight loss was all you required to hop on the bandwagon, then I have lost over 150 lbs in my vegan journey, my wife 60 and change. Trust me when I say, he is wrong.

Zach

VeganDad, I’m so happy for you seriously, great job and congratulations on your weight loss! remember your story is yours alone and there are millions out there that do well on Paleo diet :)Live long and prosper!

Vegan Dad

Your version and mine of “do well” differ substantially. A person is “thriving” when they don’t knew about true health. Yes, paleo would feel better than a standard diet of crap. If one went from vegan to paleo, the difference is clear and drastic. Abstaining from flesh is easy, if you know of the science and ethics involved. Your body is NOT designed for flash processing, teeth, eyes, stomach, finger nails, the last goes on and on. And if paleo was so great, why are there by a few long term paleo backers? They suffer from adrenal fatigue like no other, hence caffeine being used by mist as a dietary add on. There were no refined sugars, grains or coffee then either. 😉

Rubywhiz

Vegan Dad, I was a die hard vegan/vegetarian for 20+ years, grew my own organic foods, supplemented with soy, spirulina, beans, grains etc. AND I became severely sick from malnutrition. I almost ended up in the hospital from extremely low blood pressure and severe anemia (yes, I ate all those iron rich veggies and fruits and spirulina for b12). It has taken me 13 years under the care of a Dr. David Brownstein holistic MD, from the Center for holistic medicine. I am a meat eater, only organic, grass fed meats, the rest of my diet is organic vegetables, healthy animal and plant fats (that are not hydrogenated through high heat) and some fruits. Very little sugar. My B12, cholesterol, Vit D, magnesium, calcium etc. are perfect, which has been shown through blood tests. Believe me I use to be dogmatic with the veg/vegan life style but in the end I severely harmed myself. I do fast and cleanse periodically and when I do this I cut out meats all together, but it is not for very long

Vegan Dad

Well I have 30 years vegan sir. Not a supplement, not a vitamin. Your failure has many potential reasons why. The decrease of your health wouldn’t have taken 20 years. Something changed. It could be plenty. Anemia? Well when you eat those greens there are piggybacking chemicals that inhibit uptake of many things. Think about what you think was missing that the meat replaced for you. Nothing. IMO you went back based on not fulfilling your dietary needs and a desire to eat the bad stuff, social pressure, boredom.. Etc….So I ask again, what did the meat do for you that you lacked before the return to a life of no care and no compassion?

@Vegandad….
I can respect your opinion because I assume that it’s coming from a place of
genuine care for others. This is NOT an attack on vegans, rather, a truth spotlight on
food dogma. From that same care for others, I cannot let your comments here stand without response, as people may come across your misleading information and it might hurt them. To reiterate, B12 needs to be consumed from outside the body. It is well-known that the vegan diets typically need major supplementation in order to receive an adequate and nutrient dense profile. In regards to my ‘qualifications’ I can
assure you that over the past 9 years in fitness and nutrition, I keep up to
date with the top leaders in the industry, as well as set a practical example in
my own life- mirroring the practice of the science of which I speak. At the end of the day, we are all sentient beings that deserve an individualistic experience whether it
be nutrition or spirituality. To each their own unless their own arms others.
Additionally, to say that cholesterol eaten from animal flesh causes heart
attacks would be the same logic as blaming the rain for a heat wave. Numerous
evolutionary biologists have proven that the intake of carbohydrates and
excessive sugar is the true cause of cholesterol elevation, not consuming
animal flesh.

Dr. Jack Norris:

“The overwhelming consensus in the mainstream nutrition community, as well as among vegan health professionals, is that plant foods do not provide vitamin B12, and fortified foods or supplements are necessary for the optimal health of vegans, and even vegetarians in many cases.”

Vegan Dad

You sir are grossly miss and under informed. Degree in nutrition and a degree in anatomy. Once you possess those, we debate no longer. Since you will then be on the same page as I.

evan

im convinced your retarded

Claire

*you’re. Oh, the irony.

ssed

does a spelling error make you retarded?

Vegan Dad

Sadly enough, b12 deficiency is a human problem, and estimates are 20% odd Americans have it and only 1% of Americans are vegan….. Do the math. I can also post comments from paid for by the following doctor’s and scientists. Your meat is also devoid of b12 sir. The supplementation comes at the factory in injectable form. I was in the fitness industry for 16 years and now I have the honor of being a research analyst for an organic ” think tank “. I used to share your thoughts as well, based on them not really being your thoughts, but the regurgitations of others. Until the science is done by yours hands, you are acting as a walking talking billboard for pain, suffering and environmental destruction. If the powers that be didn’t add the b12, you would suffer. I take no supplementation, eat no nutritional yeast. I have my blood checked every 6 months or so. B12 levels, triglycerides, cholesterol, blood sugar… Etc are all nominal. Hmmmm….

Nikkyo

Humans are never exposed to one thing in their envorment. It’s a mixture. Cancer is a disease that progress slowly over time, just ask Robin, Howard Stern co-host, who is a vegan.

Fatty foods are digested and packed into particles that can carry fat into the blood stream as long as the particles are properly built. Not saturated fats, coconut oil or animal fats but corn oil, soy oil the lipoproteins particles do not contain enough antioxidants and the lipoprotein are easy destabilized. So when fat containing particles are destabilized, the fat they were shuttling thru the blood stream is unprotected and cannot stay suspended in the bloodstream so they will splat to the inner lining of the artery. This is why LDL particle B rise with the SAD.

Listen to yourselves. Morons ignoring hard facts. Justifying bs. Most people can’t survive like that period. And you will get sick prob too. To think animals like cows and chickens are here for aesthetic purposes. You’re not too high above them in the order obviously

Michael Danny

Love ur replies. I thought this article was a joke…and to my surprise it is not?!!!

I’m not positive the place you’re getting your information, but good topic.
I needs to spend some time finding out much more or figuring out more.
Thank you for wonderful information I used to
be looking for this info for my mission.

This article has no references for the claims it makes and lacks any real evidence. It mostly cites potential dietary deficiencies which are easily avoidable if the ‘vegan’ has made a modicum of effort to eat healthfully. Further there is hardly any money going to ‘advertising for a vegan lifestyle’ compared with the millions spent lobbying junk food and meat. Most of the environmental atrocities cited here are actually directly related to the meat industry ie deforestation for growing grains most of which are used to feed livestock. Finally the ‘celebrity’ endorsements or ethical reasons people choose not to eat meat are mostly centered around voting with one;s dollar against the grain/corn/meat/dairy industry which the author cites at the end as the enemy…comparing a shark eating a seal in the wild to the way humans raise cattle couldn’t be further from logical in terms of a metaphor; are we still cavemen? I’m all for humans hunting their own meat. Eat all the meat you can catch middle America. Oh wait you buy your meat pre packed at the store oblivious to the vast amount of energy required to get it there. 10x more energy is required to produce the same amount of calories obtained from meat vs plants. Check your facts. I comment only because this ranked highly on google and you’re spouting ill information.

GrowABrain

“10x more energy is required to produce the same amount of calories obtained from meat vs plants” – This comment is a complete myth and always ignores shipping and processing costs of plant material. In actuality: In dietary equivalency – For every 1 ton of meat shipped, 6 tons of vegetables are required to be shipped (5 more trucks!! That’s more fuel & more waste!). Secondly, grazing animals take INEDIBLE food/plants and convert it to edible food – no extra fossil fuels required, no pesticides required (cleaner water). Cattle, in particular, have digestive systems evolved to process plant fiber (cellulose) and break it down extremely efficiently. In addition, they poop & fertilize fields.
Thirdly: Think of all the vegan/vegetarian processed meals that require multiple stages of processing as well to get your “veggie burger” or your “morning star” products, etc. The fillers are primarily soy, corn & wheat. All these fillers require pesticides and herbicides – cattle don’t care if there’s bugs on what they eat (and they eat a lot of weeds as well as grasses).

John

@GrowABrain Total myth! People don’t realize that monocroping corn, wheat, canola, and soy (all building blocks of a vegan lifestyle) will DOOM this world! if we focus on diversified organic crops we can change the world! @poof you will find whatever you are looking for as far as “facts” but the clear line in the sand is drawn wen you ask a tiger not to eat you in the wild. Not gonna happen baby! The closed organic cycle is king.

Jane64

Jon I completely agree! Monocrops will be the nemesis in the year 2020 and beyond! vegetarians don’t understand that growing plants won;t feed the world.

poof

why do so many of you insist that all vegans eat nothing but prepackaged garbage?

yes, diversified plant based diets, that is veganism. Nothing in the monocrop family is necessary or recommended for a vegan diet!

further, not all veggie burgers are prepacked soybean meal from the deep freezer! I’ve had delicious veggie patties made of lentil black bean base with a lettuce bun.

literally try for one second to think outside the box, the frozen box at the supermarket, think outside of it, the aisles filled with boxes, step outside of them, now I introduce you to the the far side of the store, there, there they are, the fruits and vegetables! yes physically identifiable produce! yes that is where you will find the healthy/responsible vegans!

yes monocrops are the enemy, yes the meat and dairy industry CONTRIBUTE to this problem. how do you not understand that we have the same goals?

Rubywhiz

Beans are really hard for the body to digest due to the phytates. If they are not soaked and sprouted first they do more harm than good.

Ramiel Nagal –

Phytic acid in grains, nuts, seeds and beans represents a serious
problem in our diets. This problem exists because we have lost touch
with our ancestral heritage of food preparation. Instead we listen to
food gurus and ivory tower theorists who promote the consumption of raw
and unprocessed “whole foods;” or, we eat a lot of high-phytate foods
like commercial whole wheat bread and all-bran breakfast cereals. But
raw is definitely not Nature’s way for grains, nuts, seeds and beans. . .
and even some tubers, like yams; nor are quick cooking or rapid heat
processes like extrusion.

Phytic acid is the principal storage form of phosphorus in many plant
tissues, especially the bran portion of grains and other seeds. It
contains the mineral phosphorus tightly bound in a snowflake-like
molecule. In humans and animals with one stomach, the phosphorus is not
readily bioavailable. In addition to blocking phosphorus availability,
the “arms” of the phytic acid molecule readily bind with other minerals,
such as calcium, magnesium, iron and zinc, making them unavailable as
well. In this form, the compound is referred to as phytate.

@rubywhiz:disqus High five! I literally cannot digest beans of any kind. The lectin is too much for my GI. Alternatively, I’ve tried soaking and mashing but still get bloating and gas. Thanks for your info on phytates!

Vegan Dad

So what is your point? Beans are hard to digest so eat animals?

poof

“corn, wheat, canola, and soy” these are the building blocks of a SAD lifestyle.

The building blocks of a HEALTHY vegan diet (nothing in this article or comment was referring to ‘lifestyle’ which would include amongst other things avoiding leathers, pelts, horns and so on) are fresh fruits, vegetables, legumes, nuts, seeds etc. corn is not included as a ‘vegetable’ nor is ‘soy’ unless its the full bean e.g. edamame.

You have an incredibly distorted view of veganism is you think our only food sources are processed pre-packaged monocrops.

But then you say the truth:
“if we focus on diversified organic crops we can change the world”

You’re quite contrary John.

GrowABrain

I never said monocropping. I’m all for free range, grazing, animals. I’m all for organic farming/ranching (that was my whole point). It’s the wack jobs that support monocropping and feeding humanity cereals. See my post on basic biochemistry (and the law of conservation of energy).

Unfortunately, heart attacks are more often the result of eating high carbohydrate diets & processed foods such as margarine (made from plant oils & converted to a tasty plastic) & the overoxidation of light plant oils (ie burnt oil). Ask any cardiologist in the 21st century and they always have patients refrain from pastries, sugary foods, pasta & wheat/rye/barley based products as well as dairy (extremely high in sugar in the form of lactose), first and foremost.
I have no idea what you imply that anything I mentioned is unethical. Hype & misinformation is unethical. My apologies if reality offends your delusional ideologies (which, no doubt, you got from talking heads on the boob tube – or the You(boob)Tube or your favorite celebrity/comedian/preacher/politician/friend-of-a-friend-who-knows-this-dude-who…/Al(manbearpig)Gore/corporate shill or any other twit putting out a book or trying to get better ratings or improve their stock valuation).

The energy you cite is only the final stage: meat or plant to grocer; you are forgetting the plant to birthing cattle, the birthing to grazing cattle, the plant to the grazing cattle, the grazing cattle to the slaughtering; that’s several extra steps.

Human poop is also a viable fertilizer. The food being fed to the animals is using pesticides, Monsanto’s main customers are those who grow cattle/poultry/pork feed +/ the corn/soy/wheat which is also ‘inedible’ and winds up in loads of human foods including cereals (the corn used in cereals is the leftover that no one would buy), and the other processed junk food (vegan included) you cite which should be avoided regardless of one’s personal stance on meat, processed food vegan or not is junk. The pesticides are used not because humans dislike the look of bugs on the plant, but because the bugs eat the plants, ie the plant is gone, not just ‘dirty’, or half eaten, thus less plant/less profit. The cattle/poultry/pork do not subsist exclusively off of weeds though some cows may be fed hay in addition to the fattening wheat/corn/soy heavy diet.

The cattle are generally way over-crowded and their excess poop actually causes the water in the area to become dirtier not cleaner, in addition to the excess methane produced from their flagellation.

I am vegan to counterbalance the gross excess of majority SAD eating America. If humans ate only what they caught and/or in moderation, i.e. 1 animal product per day vs. multiple per meal, the energy situation would be far less of an issue as would obesity in our nation.

GrowABrain

Human poop as fertilizer is not a viable idea (at least not today). Modern human waste is filled with metabolites of modern prescription/OTC drugs (as well as diseases & parasites found due to poor diet & these drugs). This waste would come from STPs, but, alas, you would need to remove the detergents & the myriad of other chemicals found in sewers first (which would require more energy). As far as pesticides & herbicides, “animal crops” still require less application – human food goes through a tremendous amount of QC for appearance, taste, cleanliness, foreign plant/insect matter, etc. – requiring far more application of these chemicals, not to mention the extra cleaning/processing steps involved (in making human-grade cereals). While animals can be fed grains (which requires transport of the grains to the ranch), most grazing animals do not need them – as our local organic ranches can attest to (they still get pretty big, but leaner than what the typical fat-addicted human may prefer – why bison meat, for example, is often ground with additional fat).
On the methane issue, basics laws of biochemistry apply: all air breathing creatures that process food create methane. In other words, given the same mass (or kilocalories), of say, corn, adding digestive enzymes & assistant gut bacteria, you would get the same amount of waste gases in various ratios (CH4, H2S, CO2, etc). Obviously these ratios will differ for many reasons, but, more or less, there is no evidence to suggest that a cow will produce any more methane than a human for a given mass of a a specific food. In some cases, the ratio can produce less methane, but more CO2 or volatile amines or sulfur compounds. It is no surprise that diets high in complex carbohydrates produce more methane than diets low in these CCs (read what you wish from this) as this is the primary fuel for gut fermentation.
I agree emissions should be controlled, but it is easier to capture cow flatus than human flatus (humans would protest having to wear a device). Cow flatulence could then be used for extra energy (and the resulting CO2 from the combustion is 21X less greenhouse gas than CH4). Meat makes sense, IMHO.

Rubywhiz

This is why small farmers raising grass fed animals should be supported. If not we might as well kill off all the animals for room to grow grains and other crops. Grains are poorly digested and utilized becoming sugar which in turn causes poor health

Leon Nixon

“Grains are poorly digested and utilised becoming sugar…”
If they were poorly digested, there is no way they could become sugar – they would just be egested (i.e. come out as poop) meaning that they aren’t used at all.

Well yes, the starch in the grains will be broken down into glucose and used for respiration, which is how it goes… your problem comes when you eat too much of any carbohydrate rich food and the excess glucose is converted into fat for storage. But, a similar thing happens with protein from meat (or any other protein source). It is broken down into amino acids and any excess amino acids are converted into keto acid to be used in respiration. Guess what happens to the excess…

It is no myth, my uncle was a dairy farmer for 40 years, and he could easily prove that more energy was required to produce meat. He died broke. His farm was sold by the bank, turned into a greens farm and his replacement is thriving with 25% less overhead.

John

@poof you will find whatever you are looking for as far as “facts” but the clear line in the sand is drawn wen you ask a tiger not to eat you in the wild. Not gonna happen baby! The closed organic cycle is king.

poof

you obviously did not read my post. “I’m all for humans hunting their own meat. Eat all the meat you can catch middle America. Oh wait you buy your meat pre packed at the store oblivious to the vast amount of energy required to get it there.” I have no ‘soft spot’ for animals.

Jane64

Poof? Seriously I know you have a dogma for nutrition but at the end of the day we all need to eat what’s best for our health and stop treating food as a religion. I know that a lot of the vegans and vegetarians have a soft heart when it comes to eating animals, but forget that those animals would never have a soft heart if they have the chance to eat you! Tell a tiger in the forest not to make you his dinner. Not going to happen.

Vegan Dad

They wouldn’t abstain from eating us, based on the not having a single other option. Also THEY must have meat. They can’t produce required nutrients, we can. They produce vitamin c, we don’t.

poof

you obiously did not read my post. “I’m all for humans hunting their own meat. Eat all the meat you can catch middle America. Oh wait you buy your meat pre packed at the store oblivious to the vast amount of energy required to get it there.” I have no ‘soft spot’ for animals. I cite the waste of energy as a problem. Additionally the OVERconsumption of dairy and processed (NOT wild) meat leads to disease as both are the equivalent of junk food.

1. When is the last time you had tiger meat on the menu at home? Never. Cows, chickens, pigs and fish have never tried to eat us, surely we should afford them the same courtesy
2. Tigers are carnivorous animals in their nature. They NEED to eat other animals in order to survive. They have claws to kill with, sharp canines for ripping meat, a jaw that moves up and down to swallow meat whole, a very acidic stomach to easily break down raw meat and a short intestinal tract to get meat through the system quickly. Human beings do not NEED to eat other animals to surive. We actually have none of those carnivorous qualities. Our bodies are designed like other herbivores. Our canines are virtually useless to us (and if you try that dumb canine argument, I’d encourage you to google “Gorilla” and see what our cousins’ teeth look like and what they eat), we are not build as predators and have no claws in order to kill with (try taking down an animal like a cow with your bare hands- you will struggle). We have jaws that move from side to side and molars in order for us to chew food, a long intestinal tract designed so food can gradually move through and we can absorb as many nutrients as possible from the food, and a stomach pH of around 4.5 (like most herbivores). Unless meat is cooked, it is extremely difficult for the body to process at that pH. True carnivores have a pH of around 1. If we needed to eat meat to survive, our bodies would be built accordingly. They aren’t.
3. Just because other animals would behave in a certain way eg. a tiger would try and kill you, doesn’t mean humans should do it! My dog rolls around in his own shit, eats his own vomit and humps people’s legs. The black widow female kills the male after mating. Females of the species experience routine attempted-rapes. We are the most intelligent species on earth and should act accordingly.
4 How can you in any way, equate a tiger hunting and killing its prey in the wild with a mass factory farm genocide? Are you honestly telling me you would be okay killing your own food? Looking a pig (4th most intelligent none-human animal in the world by the way) in the eye, and then slitting its throat so you could eat its flesh on sandwiches? The atrocities and animal cruelty that occurs in slaughter houses is repulsive.

Educate yourself.

Really?

Vitamin B12 is actually created in your body and also found in the soil due to microbes. Omnivores are just as likely to get a B12 deficiency due to lack of intrinsic factor in their body to help aid in absorption. It’s a common deficiency in all people, not just vegans/vegetarians. Calcium is added to cow’s milk along with vitamin D. Vitamin D is synthesized in the skin of humans. Therefore a vegan can get enough if he/she spends 15 mins. a day in the summer sun. The acidity caused by animal proteins leaches calcium and phosphate from your bones to stabilize the acid base balance in your body. These are all things you can read about in a nutrition and anatomy/physiology book. Notice the correlation of high rates of osteoporosis in the countries with the highest consumption of dairy products. Calcium is found in kale, broccoli, and spinach to name a few green leafy veggies. The calcium in these is easily absorbed when these are slightly cooked to release the oxalic acid within them. So vegans and vegetarians are just as capable of getting calcium. Iron is found in raisins, green leafy veggies, and beans. So iron deficiency on a vegan diet is impossible if you eat foods that offer it along with vitamin C rich foods to help aid in absorption. Also the body stores iron so as long as you have no major bleeding then you’re fine. Omega 3’s are also found in some nuts so there really is no need to consume fish or eggs to get omega 3s and the body converts these into omega 6s if need be. So please next time you want to bag on a diet, read an Anatomy & Physiology book or two along with a few nutrition books. This is blatant misinformation and not acceptable.

Jane64

Dude really? Who are you kidding? B12 is NOT created in your body!

There are only two ways that you can obtain vitamin B-12: by eating foods rich in the vitamin, (gf beef, ect.) or by taking dietary supplements. (vegans)

The reason that he can take so many supplements because without the animal flesh-based diet is impossible to achieve a healthy lifestyle unless you’re genetically predisposed to function well on a slower oxidization of all the profile. For the general masses animal flesh is the capstone of solid nutrition.

Vegan Dad

You have no idea what you are referring too. The body, with an over abundance of copper(broccoli) can produce B 12. Heart attacks are caused by arterial plaque blocking arteries. Arterial plaque is caused by one thing cholesterol. And not cholesterol that is made in you, but made in an animal. The only source of cholesterol on the planet comes from animal. There is nothing in meat that cannot be found in a plant. Well of course except copious amounts of fat and cholesterol. And sadly to say, you like the gent running this thing, think that your cow butt and back have B 12, they don’t. It is added to the cow with a syringe or power in their food. Along with antibiotics and a host of other terrifying things. The b12 comes predominantly from soul microbes which over the decades have been decimated due to mono crops gmo’s. And the cows USED to be able to get it from the good ol’ dirt. Not anymore. The Romans used to sleep with children and it was accepted and practiced by the majority. The majority is almost always wrong, given enough time…. Creatures don’t need to die for your desire for a taste. And the majority of flavors you and other meat waters “like” are plant based spices anyways. Or salt. And you say flesh is the capstone of nutrition? Very comical indeed. Exactly what pay off meat is nutritious? The acidic causing protein? Widower in a package.

What is the white, fatty mass made of that is stuck….creating heart attacks and strokes after it breaks free? what is the chunky, yellowish white mass that surgeons pull out of the arteries? Cholesterol….plain and simple. I can pay my way into agenda based outcomes…science can be bought….look at the USDA..

D Kidd

The fatty mass is polyunsaturated omega 6 that comes from vegetable oils that vegans consume…..Not the healthy omega 3’s that come from 100% grass fed beef.

Nice try.

Vegan Dad

Hahaha…just to be sure I’m clear, the white fatty tissue that is removed by surgeons….is from plant fats? Hahaha haha. You area funny human. Lemme guwas, the red stuff in my veins is really clear? My bones are rubber? Come on now…..I can understand doing things to reach an agenda….but at least be realistic.

D Kidd

You heard that right….polyunsaturated omega 6 from vegetable oil….you better stop using it. By the way, your glycemic load of carbs are raising your triglycerides.

If you’re a vegan, why don’t you get a real life and stop acting like a feminist.

Vegan Dad

Awww…the widdle twoll is getting angwy…. Well, sorry. Truth usually hurts those who run from it the most. Ouch. My “job” is to know about macro and micro nutrients…absorption….etc. So if acting like a rational, eCo minded, compassionate person, is being a feminist… Then sign me up. Good day to you and your life of NO compassion, with extra cruelty on the side…yum.

♫ Fire Of Caron ♫Ⓥ

Well said!

seanspec

Why would you tell Vegan Dad to stop using it? Are you nuts? By reading his BS I am sure there are many people that would love him to walk off a bridge. Probably most of them are his family. He sounds like a complete Dusche an ignore reality idiot. His brain stopped functioning correctly years ago from a B-12 deficiency.

KarenCall

Plant saturated fats are medium chain fatty acid and flush out of the body, whereas animal saturated fats are long chain and do not.

D Kidd

Fats from grass fed beef is low in saturated fats and higher in good fats, including monounsaturated fat, omega-3 fats, and CLA. Your information on animal fats more than likely comes from conventional raised beef that is fed grain.

Along with high amounts of sugar, which a vegetarian/vegan diet consumes through grains

Vegan Dad

Lol. So then you assume that a vegan diet, consisting of whole foods, is high in sugar? Based on another assumption, that vegans eat grains to excess? Hmmm…. Well then, might as well eat saturated fat and cholesterol laden meat right? Might as well just sigh off on the compassion and ecological impacts of a standard American diet. Sigh…….

D Kidd

Show the evidence from the Framingham study that implicates fats and cholesterol?? The evidence from that on going study proves that fats and cholesterol has no adverse impact on lipid profiles. Moreover, what are whole foods?? What does that even mean? Are there whole foods with sugar? You might want to read the latest information on the sugar industry. They were caught defrauding the Nation by saying sugar doesn’t cause heart disease. They tried to demonize fat as the cause of heart disease by paying off so called experts to down play sugar….it’s all FACT that they down played sugar in your whole foods.

Too many carbs constitutes a high glycemic load and heart disease. As you age, your triglycerides will sky rocket with high carb intake…FACT.

Rubywhiz

Cholesterol is created in the body due to protecting the arteries because of inflammation. Eating cholesterol does not make cholesterol in the body rise.

The Framingham study, is the longest study done on CHD if I’m not mistaken. It proved that many of these diet related problems, aren’t necessarily in direct correlation with the foods you’re eating (not to say they cannot be), but you’re overall health to begin with. As they found people who were completely healthy and ate saturated fats, actually had lower cholesterol levels.

People also need to realize scientific facts have been wrong many times in past history, only to be corrected later on by people like this with a more open mind, to step outside of what everyone else believed. So I’ve never understood why people get caught up in things that do not have enough scientific evidence to be entirely true. This happens way too often, in every facet of society.

Even though Einstein’s mathematical equation has become the basis of almost all math used today, it’s been proven to be slightly flawed in some regards, and it is possible later on someone could come up with a more precise formula who developed more knowledge than Einstein could at the time, not to say his efforts were wasted.

I’m just trying to make the point that unless it’s 100% conclusive, you cannot conclude something otherwise. Even then, I feel people will leave everything up to interpretation and only view things based on their own perceptions, life experiences and feelings. So even when you have something that is beyond definitive proof, there are people who will still refuse to accept it.

Heart attacks are caused by arterial plaque blocking arteries however not from healthy vegetable and animal fats but processed, high heated fats along with sugar. Look up insulin resistance.

Vegan Dad

Shhhh. Speak no truth. This guy doesn’t get it. He just regurgitates useless mainstream medicines mumbo jumbo, like so many before him and sadly so many after.

Vegan Dad

I cant stand things like this. People, and or sheeple if you will, read this and GOBBLE it up as it is the “truth’…isn’t it? Nope. Not at all.

Jane64

The truth hurts!

Vegan Dad

You poor thing. The only truth is the sadness behind their eyes. 269.

Rubywhiz

Instead of bashing what you hate, try promoting what you love. When I read your comments Vegan Dad I can only feel your anger. Live the life you choose and if you find others who are like minded, great! And if not, by pushing your beliefs on them (like a religious zealot) no body will hear you. You make others feel as if they are wrong. What happens when you are told you are wrong? Do you say, “oh, I see the fault in my ways and I”m going to convert to your way of thinking”? Probably not.

Zach

Thank you so much for this article this message needs to be spread!!!! #JERF #Wellness

Vegan Dad

The only message that should be spread on this dudes blog is its end.

Nikkyo

The vitamin B(12) concentration of an algal health food, spirulina (Spirulina sp.) tablets, was determined by both Lactobacillus leichmannii ATCC 7830 microbiological and intrinsic factor chemiluminescence methods. The values determined with the microbiological method were approximately 6-9-fold greater in the spirulina tablets than the values determined with the chemiluminescence method. Although most of the vitamin B(12) determined with the microbiological method was derived from various vitamin B(12) substitutive compounds and/or inactive vitamin B(12) analogues, the spirulina contained a small amount of vitamin B(12) active in the binding of the intrinsic factor. Two intrinsic factor active vitamin B(12) analogues (major and minor) were purified from the spirulina tablets and partially characterized. The major (83%) and minor (17%) analogues were identified as pseudovitamin B(12) and vitamin B(12), respectively, as judged from data of TLC, reversed-phase HPLC, (1)H NMR spectroscopy, ultraviolet-visible spectroscopy, and biological activity using L. leichmannii as a test organism and the binding of vitamin B(12) to the intrinsic factor…..wut?

Jane

Though I respect your well-written article, I have to disagree. Hear me out – I’ll keep it short. I do not eat vegan to “show off”; I eat vegan because at this moment in my life, recovering from an eating disorder, I don’t understand how I can be kind to myself/my body while supporting animal cruelty. I’ve been vegetarian for a while because meat simply doesn’t appeal to me, but in theory I still like eggs and dairy, I’m just choosing not to eat them because of the abuse that many companies inflict on the animals. I do not follow veganism because of any celebrity. I follow it because it makes me feel the best inside and out.

Jane I absolutely LOVE your comment! What works for one does not work for all. As far as cruelty, there is a closed organic cycle that we cannot ignore in the world we live and we all need to do our part. Including being humane in the slaughter of animals raised in a sustainable way 🙂

Jaderon

Hello,
Before we decided to use chemicals to remove insects from fruits, there was more than enough vitamin b12 in fruits.

Why: the insects produce deposits that are full of vitamin b12. Now we
1 removed the insects from the fruits with chemicals
2 use pesticide so we have to wash our fruits and potentially also the bacteria that produces b12 if by any chance there is any
3 we over use our soils, which requires cobalt (a mineral) that is essential to create cobalamin (vitamin b12)

I got sick all of my life (22 years) by eating meat and dairy. I had allergies too.

Now I eat vegan with grains. I’ve never felt so good and I am not getting sick for 1.5 years. No more allergies.

If you want real science (not “omnivore eating” culture biased) you can check all of the scientific papers explaining why we do not need animal products on this website, presented by a qualified expert on nutrition and also physician, Dr Greger on his very own website:

It is not your fault if have eaten like an omnivore all of your life, it is because society and parents teach what they think is the best.

Please if you do not trust official physicians and specialists, try this: Search for the elite people doing marathons everyday (which is considered impossible by elite fitness people and physicians) and that are more than 60 years old (this is statistically impossible, but you will find them, they eat fruits)

Rubywhiz

I was a veg/vegan for 20 years and became seriously ill. So no I did not follow what society told me I did what I thought was best. I educated myself, grew my own food and loaded up on grains/beans for “complete protein’, spirulina, etc. etc. I became severely malnourished and I was not a processed foods vegan/veg thinking corn chips was a vegetable. I was a manager of a health food store and read many, many books. I had severe allergies to just about everything, constant migraines and sinus infections, poor digestion, severe fatigue and chronic aches and pains. It has taken me 13 years to recover through detoxification, building up my digestive system (which is the seat of the immune system), eating organic and grass fed meats and fats, organic vegetables, fermented foods and little fruit. I do not eat sugar other than fruit. If i do eat grains they are soaked to remove the enzyme inhibiting phytates. I regularly have blood work and hair analysis done and am in perfect nutritional health.

Rubywhiz

I agree. I was a veg/vegan for 20 years and became extremely sick. I ended up with multiple allergies, fibromyalgia and was almost hospitalized from extremely low blood pressure and severe anemia. And I grew my own food, organically and ate very little processed foods except for soy products and supplemented with spirulina. I followed all the “rules” of being a good and educated veg/vegan. After finding a good holistic MD, he helped me get back on track with whole foods diet, including organic grass fed meats, plenty of organic veggies and healthy fats. Very little sugar. Supplementation and a year and half of b12 shots. It has taken me 13 years to recover my health. I am now stronger than ever, have more stamina and look younger than my age. My only vice is coffee but am down to 2 cups. Whole, unprocessed (except when I process them), organic foods, clean water, stress reduction are the way to optimal health. I do periodic cleanses and fasting as well. No medications, even over the counter, of any kind.

xPhoenixMoon

What I find extremely ironic about the entire vegetarian and vegan movement. Is that they constantly talk about the feeling and rights of animals, which is important, do not get me wrong. The problem is that they barely ever mention or think about smaller organisms, smaller life forms that act on the same bodily functions that we do, or the plants they eat. Plants to me are just as important as a living creature as anything else on this planet, maybe the most important since we literally need them to survive ourselves.

There are so many things on this planet and many micro organisms, that do not share the same anatomy, brains or nervous systems we have. But it’s still blatantly obvious they are living conscious beings, surviving just like the rest of us. If they weren’t what purpose would they have to even be here in the first place? And more improtantly what purpose would any living thing, including plants, need to survive for? This leads me to heavily believe, that no matter how small or how empty a living creature may appear, every living thing has some form of a conscious. Even though it may be on a more basic level than ours, how does that change anything?

Many could argue a Jelly fish has no conscious or feeling, simply because it has no brain or eyes. Then why would a creature like this need a defense mechanism, why would a creature like this know to use that defense mechanism when it’s danger, or even try to flee from being killed. Again, just because a living object may perform functions on a much simpler level, does not mean it is not capable of what we are in some similar fashion.

This is what upset me so much when people only talk about your typical animal, instead of view the entire scope of every living life form we have on this planet.

There have been lot of interesting studies done, also, showing that plants can communicate with each other and feel. Now people can argue what they feel exactly, all day. The point is that they can feel. The same could be said about any animal, they can function on a simpler anatomy at time as well. You can chase a pig and it most likely squeal, does that mean it was feeling pain just because you were running after it? Obviously it wasn’t if you didn’t even touch the pig to begin with, but that’s my point, what things feel and how it is interpreted is too heavily debated, when it should be as simple as any living thing that feels… Should not be killed to people who feel so extreme about the violence and cruelty done to only specific animals.

You should not want to eat at all if that’s the case, and I am strictly speaking to all these extremist vegetarians and vegans who never think about the things without brains, and only the little cute faces and eyes being batted at them.

That’s another thing that really bothers me. A lot of the time you people truly only care about these certain animals, simply because you feel you can relate to them by looking at their faces. Now you have these same living faceless creatures, that aren’t cute or do not have any eyes to look at to think it’s feeling sad, or may not necessarily make audible screams we can hear. And you people rarely care, or even think about about those living beings.

It is actually very upsetting that barely anyone in the vegetarian or vegan community even acknowledges this fact. It’s even more upsetting seeing some vegetarians and vegans, eat smaller animals, like sea life that they feel has no conscious, just because they don’t share the same anatomical functions to be able to feel and think the same exact way we do, when animals aren’t exactly like us either, but you feel so sorry for them. So who are these people, to base it is right to eat something, just because they may seem lesser, just like plants or any smaller living things that aren’t as relatable. It does not mean they aren’t capable thinking or feeling in a different way than we can.

If you’re doing it for your health that is one thing, more power to you. But if you want to be a real martyr over living life forms in general, I suppose you might as well never eat anything, ever again. I guess you’d have to literally die to prove a point that humans are above all else (which I find to be an arrogant notion), and that we don’t need to stoop to the low levels that nature itself has provided for us. Even though it is again very obvious, we are nothing more than a product of this same nature. So what? Because we have all this technology and have developed a higher form of intelligence over hundreds of years, we are somehow better than every other living life form on this planet to be able to judge what feels and what does based on very subjective feelings? Even with the level of intelligence we have achieved today, a huge majority of people act no better than any rabid animal in the wilderness.

I just don’t understand how it’s okay to supplement yourself with one living life form, but using another is unacceptable to you. It’s completely contradicting the way many vegans and vegetarians go about promoting this life style. A lot of the times also, you’ll find they care more about animals than even humans, which is also very screwed up. So you can care more about animals suffering, but you don’t do anything about all the humans suffering in the world also.

What I also find very ironic, is that no vegan or vegetarian can ever truly stay away from harming something. We live in a world, where it is basically made impossible not to do so. So they aren’t many options for you not to partake in these things, unless you isolate yourself from society. Even if you aren’t getting food, something as simple as filling you car up with gas is supporting these kind of practices. Regardless if you’re just buying organic vegetables or not from a grocery store, the same still happens. Even though your purchase may not be directly harming anything, the products you buy are still support bad practices by these major retailers. It’s an endless cycle of problems we cannot avoid, and technically speaking we are ourselves just parasites. It is unavoidable.

Why? Because the earth is our host, and no matter how we go about living and if you never kill animals, you’re causing harm to this host in one way or another. Even if it’s something as simple as eating vegetables, those vegetables came from this host we call Earth, that is basis of all living life forms we know of on this planet, including us.

So can people just cut the crap and stop trying to act all high and mighty? And if you’re going to care for a few living things to that extreme that you will never support even eating them, even when they’re raised well and humanely, then don’t support the killing or eating of any living life form. The thing about that is, there are probably very few people in this world who would have the audacity to make such a point, by literally eating nothing until they died.

You make salient points. In regards to the treatment of animals, whole foods market has a really solid animal welfare rating system where they describe in detail the conditions of how the animal was raised and slaughtered. Eating meat is part of the closed organic cycle, and doing it in a humane way is a noble choice!

anonymous human

This is ridiculous. I can’t comment on all the irrational statements in this piece so I’ll highlight just two – you’re correct, agriculture has gotten out of hand. So let’s stop feeding our grains (or corn, really) to millions of animals being raised for dairy and meat. Let’s just eat the grains ourselves. This is far more efficient, as your little ecoweb picture demonstrates. And yes, humans are omnivores in that we can eat plants or animals. However we are more like herbivores. Regardless, its time to evolve and recognize that food systems have changed and our gluttonous desire for meat has become not only abusive, but unsustainable. With our vast population today human evolution has become cultural, knowledge and behavior based (rather than genetic). Try to keep up.

I share a similar philosophy as the man in the video. This doesn’t suggest that plants have feelings whatsoever.

ssed

it doesn’t matter except if you make it matter. What is the logic behind “animals have feelings so it is wrong to kill them for food”? No logic, only flawed ethics.

Twitch

What logic is there from pulling your hand from a flame because it hurts? Your idea of flawed logic is flawed in and of itself. Be honest. You eat meat because that’s what you were raised to do and because it tastes good. I have no quarrel with people doing what that NEED to to survive, but that’s simply not the case in today’s society. Our ancestors ate meat because there was an ice age and food was scarce. Prior to that, we were solely plant eaters from 2 million years ago, all the way to 12 million years ago and possibly beyond according to fossil records. This is why a plant based diet is so healthy for us, because we’ve evolved much longer on a plant based diet. It’s also why there’s so many cases of heart disease and strokes, the #1 and #2 global killers, which happen to be primarily caused by bad cholesterol, of which the only source is animal products. There’s a similar trait with obesity, cancer, and diabetes. Regardless, I draw the line at eating any sentient creature. Simple as that. It’s cruel and unnecessary. Plants are not sentient, and if you’d like to discuss plant sentience, as many carnists do at this point, I’d be happy to. I’m sure you’ve heard of those silly studies about plant sentience.

ssed

Eating meat is not the real problem, you have to look at the bigger picture.
Evolution doesn’t care about your ethics. I see what you are trying to say but as long as I live I am going to eat meat and fish. My grandparents lived for 90 years and they were omnivores.
It’s not as simple as “meat is bad because of cholestorol” lol. Besides the brain is cholestorol and needs it. It’s a combination of lack of vitamins, lack of minerals like magnesium, too much omega 6, too little omega 3, too much industrial transfats, too much sodium and sugar, lack of sleep(4-7 hours not enough even if you get used to it), sedentary lifestyle etc etc.

Life is unnecessary too.

I can understand that you think killing bigger animals or mammals like pigs for example is cruel but I cannot understand that you avoid fish too. How many living beings have you killed? For example ants etc. You should avoid killing them according to your logic, but you don’t, you step on living sentient beings constantly, but does it really matter, no, only if you say so, but not for everyone.

Twitch

There are people who live over 100 smoking cigarettes, that doesn’t mean cigarettes don’t kill millions of people..You can also apply the same excuse, that they didn’t exercise enough, or didn’t get enough vitamins, ect. but that clearly doesn’t change the fact that smoking is harmful. And you can be silly and say evolution doesn’t care about my ethics, but morality and ethics are a product of evolution, as am I. In reality, you’re just projecting that YOU do not care for my ethics.

Also, you’re confusing good cholesterol with bad cholesterol. Bad cholesterol is not good for us, clearly as the name suggests, because it builds on the walls of your arteries and increase your chances of getting cardiovascular disease. It is any outside source of cholesterol, which like I mentioned earlier, is only from animal products. This is why if you look at any food label, if it doesn’t have any animal products in it, it will say 0% cholesterol. Good cholesterol is created in your body naturally and helps to remove the bad cholesterol.

As for life being unnecessary, that’s only a philosophy, because in reality, it depends on which way you look at it.

Fish are sentient creatures and they suffer, too and their behavior is evidence of this. As for whether or not insects do is questionable, and the answer is I don’t know. Regardless, I do avoid killing them when possible. That said, you’re argument is appearing to revolve around the Nirvana fallacy. And that is, that if a solution is not perfect, then it should be rejected thus discrediting and good ideas that solution may have. That’s like me saying, “You kill ants, so I can’t understand why you don’t kill humans.” It sounds silly, doesn’t it?

ssed

Not an excuse. I can give you more proof of that if you live a healthy life and eat meat you can live a long life. Stop trying to say it’s unhealthy, it’s about your ethics and you try to make them stronger by searching for evidence on the internent that it is unhealthy to eat meat.

Morals like “don’t kill animals” matter only if we make them matter like I said before. Of course everything is a product of chemistry but I said that it doesn’t care about what path we choose except if you believe that there is a God that wants us to choose the path that feels right to you.

Life is harmful, stop living. There are hundreds of things that I could call unnecessary(but I don’t) and that are also harmful in one way or another, but still we do them. Besides people are often hypocrites, they judge others actions and still do shit themselves.

Then don’t smoke if it is harmful, some people won’t care and they have the right not to because it’s their life, they have an independent mind and they like to use it instead of living under dictatorship.

You don’t kill sentient beings because they suffer? Well that’s only a philosophy, in reality it depends on which way you look at it. We feel pain because our chemistry and because it helps us know when there is risk of injury or death. It’s an flawed ideology to not kill because of pain, you think you are better because you don’t, but you should not kill any living being instead of choosing to not kill those who feel pain because it makes you feel better. Besides pain will end when they die anyway, so it doesn’t matter because the suffering is not unnecessary or cruel because it’s food.
Torturing animals or killing them for fun is unnecessary and cruel.
This “don’t eat meat” is just an ideology, a new “religion”, and less logical than the ancient religions that told us killing animals for food is ok.

Like I said eating cholestorol in moderation of course is not unhealthy if other factors like vitamins, minerals, omega 6, omega 3, industrial transfats, sodium and sugar, sleep and exercise are ok. Modern lifestyle and food is the reason for these health problems, not meat. You can blame meat all you want to make your ethics stronger but you won’t fool me, at most you will only fool yoursel.

You wish. Why would I change my mind because you think it’s unhealthy and morally wrong to eat fish and meat? That’s just a very strong opinion you have. Maybe you’re the one who will change your mind?
People in our country have eaten fish for generations, it’s a very popular food, also healthy(minus the enviromental poisons that ends up in wild fish because of current modern human activity, but as long as they’re small in size it doesn’t matter, besides the good outweighs the bad in this case)

Btw I know some vegans, and I have noticed that they are sick way more more often than others. Just an observation. Maybe it’s the cost of being “healthy”.

ssed

Not an excuse. I can give you more proof of that if you live a healthy life and eat meat you can live a long life. Stop trying to say it’s unhealthy, it’s about your ethics and you try to make them stronger by searching for evidence on the internent that it is unhealthy to eat meat.

Morals like “don’t kill animals” matter only if we make them matter like I said before. Of course everything is a product of chemistry but I said that it doesn’t care about what path we choose except if you believe that there is a God that wants us to choose the path that feels right to you.

Life is harmful, stop living. There are hundreds of things that I could call unnecessary(but I don’t) and that are also harmful in one way or another, but still we do them. Besides people are often hypocrites, they judge others actions and still do shit themselves.
Then don’t smoke if it is harmful, some people won’t care and they have the right not to because it’s their life, they have an independent mind and they like to use it instead of living under dictatorship.

You don’t kill sentient beings because they suffer? That’s your decision, it’s not wrong but it’s not right either. We feel pain because our chemistry and because it helps us know when there is risk of injury or death. It’s an flawed moral to not kill because of pain, you think you are better because you don’t, but you should not kill any living being, instead of choosing to not kill those who feel pain because it makes you feel better. Besides pain will end when they die anyway, so it doesn’t matter because the suffering is not unnecessary or cruel because it’s food. Every living creature and organism tries to survive not only those who feel pain.
Torturing animals or killing them for fun is unnecessary and cruel and should be avoided. But still many of us do it when we’re kids.

This “don’t eat animal products” is just an ideology, a new “religion”, and less logical than the ancient religions that told us killing animals for food is ok.
We are/were omnivores, not herbivores, not carnivores, the fact that people around you eat both meat and plants all the time is not enough of a proof to you?
You can be a vegan because you can/will now choose to be, you can even choose to only eat meat. But eating both meat/fish/eggs and plants is what we have evolved with. And it has indeed been a good thing for our brains.

We don’t have distinct canines because we don’t need to. Besides canines is not always=omnivore, hippopotamus for example have big canines for fighting and to intimidate.
Gorillas don’t eat meat/fish but still have big canines because they have evolved for another purposes than meat.

Vegan zealots like you spread false information, urban legends, fear-mongering, half-truths and pseudoscience on the internet to support your beliefs and to persuade others to join your cause. Nowadays with the internet you can so easily find people that have the same opinion and thoughts as you, therefore you can easily share your thoughts and delusions with thousands of likeminded(or not) people within the same cesspit and make your beliefs even stronger.

Like I said eating cholestorol in moderation of course is not unhealthy if other factors like vitamins, minerals, omega 6, omega 3, industrial transfats, sodium and sugar, sleep and exercise are ok. Modern lifestyle, industry and food is the reason for these health problems, not meat. You can blame meat all you want to make your ethics stronger but you won’t fool me, at most you will only fool yourself.

You wish. Why would I change my mind because you think it’s unhealthy and morally wrong to eat fish and meat? That’s just a very strong opinion you have. Maybe you’re the one who will change your mind?

People in our country have eaten fish for generations, it’s a very popular food, also healthy(minus the enviromental poisons that ends up in wild fish because of current modern human activity, but as long as they’re small in size it doesn’t matter, besides the good outweighs the bad in this case)
Overpopulation is not yet a problem here either, but globally it is I would say and that is another subject.

Btw I know some vegans, and I have noticed that they are sick way more more often than others. Just an observation. Maybe it’s the cost of being “healthy”.

If you want I can link you countless of real scientific studies that supports my claims about meat/fish not being the problem. But you wouldn’t believe them would you?
This is not a matter of beliefs and/or ethical standpoints, I don’t care what you think, I don’t care about your ethics or health claims, I care about facts.

Twitch

It is an excuse and you just completely ignored my point that proved it. Additionally, I can give you a million reasons and studies that prove eating meat to be unhealthy if you’d like. I figured the most obvious approach to this however is to look around. People are generally not healthy. It’s because biologically our bodies are frugivorous, which is a type of herbivore. You compare us with true omnivores and we are nothing alike.

_”Morals like “don’t kill animals” matter only if we make them matter like I said before.”_

Yep. That’s how morals work. That’s why you don’t find it immoral to kill animals because you don’t want it to work. You prefer the taste of them as opposed to their own well being. I’m aware of this.

_”Life is harmful, stop living. There are hundreds of things that I could call unnecessary(but I don’t) and that are also harmful in one way or another, but still we do them.” ; “Then don’t smoke if it is harmful, some people won’t care and they have the right not to because it’s their life, they have an independent mind and they like to use it instead of living under dictatorship.”_

Yeah, life is harmful so let’s all kill ourselves. That sounds logical. What you do to harm yourself, I could care less. You have the right to harm yourself. You do not have the right to harm others. If you think that makes a dictatorship, then every single country in this world is ruled by a dictatorship because it’s generally accepted that you shouldn’t harm others. To which, I disagree.

_”Besides people are often hypocrites, they judge others actions and still do shit themselves.”_

Nope. If you haven’t noticed I’m vegan. I don’t eat animals or pay to have them slaughtered.

_”You don’t kill sentient beings because they suffer? That’s your decision, it’s not wrong but it’s not right either.”_

That’s called a lack of morality.

_”We feel pain because our chemistry and because it helps us know when there is risk of injury or death. It’s an flawed moral to not kill because of pain, you think you are better because you don’t, but you should not kill any living being, instead of choosing to not kill those who feel pain because it makes you feel better.”_

Yes, thank you for explaining the process of pain as if I didn’t know already and as if it helps your point in any way. Do you really believe it’s flawed morally not to do something to someone else that you wouldn’t like done to yourself? That is pretty much the definition of morality, my friend. I don’t think I am morally superior, I know I am and you know it yourself. It’s just a fact. I don’t abstain from killing animals because it makes me feel better. I do it because it makes THEM feel better.

_”Besides pain will end when they die anyway, so it doesn’t matter because the suffering is not unnecessary or cruel because it’s food. Every living creature and organism tries to survive not only those who feel pain. Torturing animals or killing them for fun is unnecessary and cruel and should be avoided. But still many of us do it when we’re kids.”_

Death is not a justification for hurting someone. That’s insane. And if a cannibal murdered you so they could eat you afterwards that wouldn’t make it any better, now would it? Like I said before, we don’t need to eat animals. It’s cruel and unnecessary so you have no moral justification for doing it. This is why people try to argue that it is necessary, but they get shut down every time. The fact is, my own existence is evidence of this and this is why people who eat meat are so threatened by vegans. Violence is generally learned at a young age. People teach their children that it’s okay to kill one animal, but it’s not okay to kill another. You won’t ever see a young infant trying to kill a pig. It’s not natural.

_”This “don’t eat animal products” is just an ideology, a new “religion”, and less logical than the ancient religions that told us killing animals for food is ok.”_

Okay, I’m going to be blunt on this one.. what you just said is ignorant and indicates you do not understand the difference between religion and morality. With this same logic, you could say it’s a religion to be kind to one another. If you believe that ancient fairy tales are more logical than simply being kind to animals, then you’re a lost cause.

_”We are/were omnivores, not herbivores, not carnivores, the fact that people around you eat both meat and plants all the time is not enough of a proof to you?”_

Uh, no. Only by the literal definition, “eats meat and plants” but that’s not how we ascribe these terms to other animals in nature. These terms are generally given based on their biological make-up. If I feed a cow meat, I’m not going to assume that meat is good for that cow and that it’s automatically an omnivore. Did you know atherosclerosis from eating meat is ONLY a trait of herbivores? Carnivores and omnivores do not have this problem, yet we do. That alone should be proof.

_”You can be a vegan because you can/will now choose to be, you can even choose to only eat meat. But eating both meat/fish/eggs and plants is what we have evolved with. And it has indeed been a good thing for our brains.”_

Apparently it hasn’t. Jokes aside, like I mentioned earlier, we evolved much longer on a plant based diet which is why it is most healthy for us. Those saturated fats and bad cholesterol are not good for your brain, not to mention the other toxins. Mercury in fish is horrible for your brain, for one.

_”We don’t have distinct canines because we don’t need to. Besides canines is not always=omnivore, hippopotamus for example have big canines for fighting and to intimidate.”_

Ha-ha, this tells me you argue with vegans a lot because this is our go-to when people bring up canines. The reason hippos have big canines is for defense and has nothing to do with their diet. Even some monkeys who are largely herbivorous have giant canines. So I agree with this point, but additionally we do not need them because we do not need to hunt and eat meat.

_”Vegan zealots like you spread false information, urban legends, fear-mongering, half-truths and pseudoscience on the internet to support your beliefs and to persuade others to join your cause. Nowadays with the internet you can so easily find people that have the same opinion and thoughts as you, therefore you can easily share your thoughts and delusions with thousands of likeminded(or not) people within the same cesspit and make your beliefs even stronger.”_

You know, that’s ironic because it’s meat-eaters like you spread false information, urban legends, fear-mongering, half-truths and pseudoscience on the internet to support your beliefs and to persuade others that cruelty is acceptable. A little self-reflection goes a long way bud, so take some responsibility stop self-projecting your issues onto me. You know what pisses me off the most about all of this, is that thousands of animals are being slaughtered every second and all you want to do is argue that it’s acceptable and okay to make yourself feel better. You’d rather argue over semantics and justify your own ego than simply admit that we should be kind to animals. I don’t know if you’re just inherently cruel, ignorant, and/or simply don’t want to admit when you’re wrong, or what, I don’t know what the issue is, but it’s absolutely ridiculous.

_”Like I said eating cholestorol in moderation of course is not unhealthy if other factors like vitamins, minerals, omega 6, omega 3, industrial transfats, sodium and sugar, sleep and exercise are ok. Modern lifestyle, industry and food is the reason for these health problems, not meat. You can blame meat all you want to make your ethics stronger but you won’t fool me, at most you will only fool yourself.”_

No amount of bad cholesterol is healthy. That’s like saying smoking every once in a while is okay. No. You’re coming full circle and once again ignoring points that were already made. You can blame exercise and lifestyle all you want to justify cruelty to animals, but you’re only fooling yourself. I gave you a clear reasons why meat has been proven to be bad and your still ignoring it, so until you can acknowledge those, then don’t bother responding.

_”You wish. Why would I change my mind because you think it’s unhealthy and morally wrong to eat fish and meat? That’s just a very strong opinion you have. Maybe you’re the one who will change your mind?”_

I don’t expect you to change your mind because of what I think. I expected you to change your mind because it’s clearly reasonable and compassionate, but it’s clear now that you’re very daft to both. As for me changing my mind, the only circumstance I would ever do that is if I were stranded and needed to kill to survive, because that would be reasonable. That’s never going to happen in today’s society. And that’s not even changing my mind, I just stated that to get your attention because I’ve already stated that it’s wrong to kill animals unnecessarily. I will never eat animals, because it’s cruel and I simply do no need to.. and neither do you.

_”People in our country have eaten fish for generations, it’s a very popular food, also healthy(minus the enviromental poisons that ends up in wild fish because of current modern human activity, but as long as they’re small in size it doesn’t matter, besides the good outweighs the bad in this case) Overpopulation is not yet a problem here either, but globally it is I would say and that is another subject.”_

You know, this appeal to tradition is silly. There are a lot of people have done as tradition that have clearly been immoral. This is one of them. Slavery was a tradition. Child sacrifice was a tradition. Beheading is a tradition people have been doing for centuries. It clearly does not make it right. There is an overpopulation of animals being bred on factory farms and it’s destroying the environment, hindering the long-term survival of every single living being on this earth, but you’re right.. that’s another subject.

_”Btw I know some vegans, and I have noticed that they are sick way more more often than others. Just an observation. Maybe it’s the cost of being “healthy”.”_

For some reason, I doubt you know any vegans personally and that fact that you said they get sick more often than others just proves this. I used to get sick at least 3 times a year when I ate meat, and I’m not talking just a flu, I’m talking feeling like I wanted to die. Ever since I became vegan over 2 and a half years ago I haven’t been sick a single time. This is actually common among vegans as well to become sick far less often than when they used to eat meat.

Also, I used to have pretty scary heart problems and was even put on a heart monitor at one point. I haven’t had any heart problems since I’ve stopped eating animal products.

_”If you want I can link you countless of real scientific studies that supports my claims about meat/fish not being the problem. But you wouldn’t believe them would you?”_

I would take it with a grain of salt, because I have countless studies from peer-reviewed sources which claim otherwise, as well as personal experience and a comprehension of our biology to suggest why.

_”I don’t care what you think, I don’t care about your ethics or health claims, I care about facts.”_

If only that was truly the case! This conversation would go a lot smoother. Let’s put aside the fact that you deny bad cholesterol is not healthy and start with our physiological make-up. Our intestines are long and about 9 times our body length, on par with other frugivores. Carnivores and omnivores intestines are about 1.5 – 3 times their body length. Our colon and urine chemistry are acid based, on par with frugivores. Carnivores and omnivores colon and urine chemistry is alkaline based. Our digestion takes 12-18 hours, on par with frugivores. Omnivores digestion takes about 6 to 10 hours. We have sweat glands all over our body. Omnivores have minimal sweat glands. We have large salivary glands. Omnivores/carnivores have small salivary glands. Our jaw moves side to side. Omnivores/carnivores move up and down. I can go on if you’d like.

ssed

“I don’t abstain from killing animals because it makes me feel better. I do it because it makes THEM feel better”

It does not matter, especially when hunting or fishing, they feel well and then they die. How hard is it for you to understand this?
Slaughterhouses are were animals often suffer a long time before they die. But we were not arguing about this.

Life is harmful so lets kill ourselves? Who was talking about killing ourselves? Again you just want to say something instead of agreeing with me. As long as you don’t harm or bring suffering to others directly and intentionally without any reason then it doesn’t matter what you do except if you want to try and maximize your chance of living as long as possible. Not everyone one wants that though. And I can understand them.

Frugivores? LOL. Frugivores are omnivores too. Chimps and Gorillas eat insects, also they can eat meat and have been spotted eating meat, just like humans. Why are you blind to these facts? We can eat almost anything, we are not restriced to vegetables or fruits only.
Do you comprehend this?

Yes countries are ruled by dictatorships, why else would governments ban things without asking people first. The democracy we have only means that you can vote and that one person will not have power or stay in power.

But you’re still a hypocrite, every human is. You just don’t admit it.

You’re just being an asshole now, loads of sarcasm etc.

I’m not your friend my friend. Yes I believe that there is a good reason why we kill animals for food. Besides we can now grow our “meat” for this purpose only.

“Death is not a justification for hurting someone”
They don’t die for no reason..
If you haven’t noticed humans don’t usually eat other humans just like cat’s don’t eat other cats for example. But if for some reason there would be no other food on this planet then I guess I would understand this cannibal, probably I would be one myself.

Religon not morals? You’re so fucking ignorant it hurts. Religions have many morals, that was one purpose of them, so a civilized society could work because people could be without morals back then, they are more than ancient fairy tales, especially the abrahamic ones, you really lack knowledge in this department. A big part of religions is also spirituality.

“Apparently it hasn’t. Jokes aside”
So you are talking about yourself now?

“Those saturated fats and bad cholesterol are not good for your brain, not to mention the other toxins. Mercury in fish is horrible for your brain, for one.”

Again you don’t know enough.
Oh no horrible, mercury, more hysteria! Mercury is not a problem in most fish, and those fish that have a loads of mercury(large tuna for example), well you should eat them 4 times a month at most(depending on how many grams of course, a small piece easily 4 times a month), or just avoid them if you feel so. Everything is poison in excess, you don’t seem to realize this. And some things that are poisonous in big doses can be healthy in small doses, obviously I’m not talking about mercury.

You are the first vegan that I have argued with actually.

“You know, that’s ironic because it’s meat-eaters like you spread false information, urban legends, fear-mongering, half-truths and pseudoscience on the internet to support your beliefs and to persuade others that cruelty is acceptable”

And now you accuse me of doing this, kinda ironic indeed, because it’s vegans like you who spread false information, urban legends, fear-mongering, half-truths and pseudoscience on the internet to support your beliefs and to persuade others to join your cause.

I’m not the one spreading false information, of course there are meat eaters and vegans who both do this but I was talking about hardcore vegans now. You accuse me of spreading false information, do you call peer reviewed studies false information?
Take your own advice of self-reflection.

I’m being kind to animals, very kind, I have a cat, I love cats. But I would kill easy prey for food if I had to. And I do, I kill fish…oh noes. Again fish is healthy, if it would not be then those who eat mainly fish and vegetables, fruits etc. would not live as long as they do.
Does it bother you that you can live a long healthy life without being vegan? Again health reasons is only your excuse, your’e a vegan for other reasons.
Do you eat eggs? No because they are sooo “unhealthy” so I must avoid them at all cost, right? Or because they are almost living beings lol? Even when no harm was done to the chickens? No but you’re a vegan so you cannot eat eggs even when it is ok because doctrine is doctrine.
Here’s a link: http://www.bmj.com/content/346/bmj.e8539

A lot of vegans are actually crazy, not because they are vegan but that’s one reason they are vegan, they have an unstable and overly sensitive mind, depression, anorexia etc. one day they eat meat, then suddenly they don’t because something made them stop that would not make most people stop, many still become meat eaters again lol. Most of them are either the ethical vegans(who stopped eating meat after he/she saw a bird die as a kid, this is a real story) or the health vegans.

“No amount of bad cholesterol is healthy. That’s like saying smoking every once in a while is okay. No”

See how idiotic this is? There are lot of things in life that are unhealthy in small amounts but that doesn’t mean you will die or that it even will affect your health noticeably. Many we can’t even avoid. You have this black and white view of life.
You know, genetics matter, if you think meat is unhealthy for you then ok, it could even be, but it’s not for everyone, not considerably, not anymore than eating loads of non animal products.
Drinking alcohol once in awhile is unhealthy and healthy, but does it matter? The effect is not noticeable. Same goes for tobacco products and even smoking them, they have benefits also(neurological) but if you want to avoid these things at all cost, then do so, but don’t try to manipulate others to follow your extremist ways.

Btw you can check your cholestorol levels you know, if you’re worried.

Well if you want to play this game then:
I gave you a clear reason why meat has been proven to not be bad and you’re still ignoring it, so until you can acknowledge those, then don’t bother responding..

I care for my well being, not eating meat at all makes me feel hungry because I have to eat so much more to get the same amount of proteins, fats etc. which is also expensive,
and like I said, fish especially, the loads of omgea 3 oil that salmon have(which is different from the plant omega 3) is very healthy for your body and brain.
I did not meat for a month, because I wanted to test if I feel worse, better or no effect. A month is a short time to notice any healthy effects, but I’m already very healthy actually so it would not had made the situation better at least. Hunger and lack on energy were the things I noticed.
I’m pretty skinny btw, I eat normal amounts of food, but my BMI is 20 so according to it I’m almost underweight, it’s genetic though.

“You know, this appeal to tradition is silly”

I didn’t say anything about tradition..I just said that we have been eating fish for generations, actually it has nothing to do with tradition, it’s because we have loads of sea and lake..
Yes nowadays we also farm fish that goes mainly to ourselves, but overpopulation is not a problem here, 5.5 million people in the whole country…
Don’t even try to argue with me about fish and that we should not eat it.
You compare eating fish to child sacrifice? You’re clearly insane.
Important: It also depends on what you feed farm animals, it have an impact on how healthy they are to consume.

“For some reason, I doubt you know any vegans personally and that fact that you said they get sick more often than others just proves this”

What kinda logic is this? Proves it? No wonder you’re so ignorant when you think this is a proof.
I know vegans, believe me or not. They work at the same place as I do and they’re often sick, therefore not coming to work.
Oh, good for you then if you don’t become sick as often anymore, there are many ways to reduce the chance of becoming sick. I doubt it have anything to with you being vegan, it could be that you just take more supplements or if not then eat more fruit, vegetables etc. therefore you get more vitamin C etc. than before. Eating meat does not mean that you cannot eat plants and vice versa.

I would then take these studies you’re talking about with a grain of salt also if we just can’t agree that both ways can be healthy, and science can prove this therefore it’s stupid to argue about health claims.

We are omnivores because we can be, if you think we are just fruit eaters then with time evolution would obviously change this because we now eat meat(and have eaten for a long time). If you believe in creationism, then you can argue that we are what we are and we will always be how we were created. But you don’t.

Like I said you try to make your ethics stronger, but evolution doesn’t care. So just stick to the ethics please.

omnivore

Lots of good points here, unfortunately, no vegan will even take the time to comprehend what this article says, because they are know it all’s and will deny any evidence that eating meat is actually not bad for you. Show an idiot a vegan documentary and he’ll change his life, show him evidence telling him meat isn’t bad for you and modern agriculture is destroying the environment and he won’t even give it the light of day.

‘They have a quest to “never hurt a living thing,” all the while forgetting that plants have feelings too.’

Literally the stupidest words I’ve ever read in my life. And no, I’m not using “literally” the wrong way. I really mean, literally.

pakas

yhea.. the science.. where are the articles ? nowhere has usual.. all the nutrition articles point to a healthy vegan diet. ALL of them

Stacey

I have to say that some of your “science based” declarations are wrong. I haven’t eaten meat for 24 years and don’t believe in taking vitamins, and every time I get my blood work done, all of my levels of every vital nutrient are smack dab in the center of normal amounts, or higher. I do not take a vitamin B12 supplement. I am no more prone to sickness than any other person. Just because there are a few “better than thous” in the vegan movement doesn’t mean that they’re all obnoxious. I have to say, those who go on and on about their meat eating or their incredibly stupid “paleo” diet are as annoying, or worse.

What science is there to support the claim that veganism is only right for a metabolic type? I’ve never seen any such evidence, and I suspect it doesn’t exist. Studies of cultures with the highest rate of centenarians are always vegetarian, vegan, or pescatarian, and there are hundreds of studies which now show us why that is. Do your research, don’t believe random nobodies on the internet.

Rohan McCracken

To everyone

Faaaaarrk..you all sound like you’re a bunch of immortals …Drink beer, eat meat bla bla it doesn’t matter, in the end, life isn’t defined by what is on your plate but by all the fucking awesome things you’ve accomplished.

Michael Danny

“PLANTS HAVE FEELINGS TOO” HAHAHAHHA RIP HUMANITY YOU GENIUS!!!

P.s u use the word “may” a lot, indicating you’re not sure with your statements. Please educate yourself before writing an article, for your own good too.
Peace.

Sarah Beara

Okay I have a lot of issues with this article. 1) Animals that we eat consume large amounts of plants which are farmed and then the animal is killed for us to eat. So if instead of feeding all of these animals agriculture that we could be eating, we eat the plants ourselves, we would need to grow less food and we also wouldn’t have massive amounts of (toxic) animal waste in the ecosystem (i.e. our water supply). 2) You are exposed to more disease when you consume animal products. This is basically undisputable. How many times has your mother told you not to eat raw cookie dough? How important is it that your chicken is cooked all the way? 3.) The ethical issue is not always with eating animals in and of itself. Many times it is an animal welfare argument. The issue is with the way that the animals are treated in slaughter houses and on factory farms. 4.) The animals are treated with hormones and are given anti-biotics constantly. We know this is not healthy. When you constantly give an animal anti-biotics and keep the animal in disgusting conditions, you are breeding a disease. 5.) Nothing is stopping you from buying vitamin B12 supplements. I have some tasty chewable ones that I bought from the drug store for like $7.

Flora Jougla

This article is a joke. First of all, the only reason why B12 is found in meat is because B12 is a bacteria found in soil and animals eat soil. Nowadays, they actually give B12 supplements to livestock.
Soy is bad for us? Well, cow’s milk is much worse than soy.
There’s nothing “natural” or “normal” about raping, torturing and killing innocent beings. I agree that animals kill other animals in order to feed, but that’s because they don’t have any other choice, that’s how they were programmed to founction. We humans have a conscience and we can make a choice and learn how to replace the meat and the other animal products. Top of the food chain? If we were at the top of the food chain, we’d be able to run after any animal, catch it, kill it and eat it raw. What we’re doing is destroying our planet and our humanity, there’s nothing natural about that.
Plants have feelings too? Please! Plants do not have a nervous system, which means that they can’t feel pain. If you pick up a strawberry, another one will grow back. If you kill a cow, it won’t come back to life, will it?!