Okay. The couple gets to have loud sex all week long, and the singles aren't even allowed to bring someone home? They haven't told you how much it costs, and you suspect you'll end up subsidizing someone? My spider senses would be going off in this situation. Namely that I was being used.

We all need certain things for a safe and happy burn. If you are not quite willing to throw in the towel, then you need to call a meeting with your friends and explain that you are worried that this situation is not shaping up to be what you thought it was and that you need a few assurances. Such as:1. Friends will not have loud sex when others are in the area2. Costs will be split equally3. Everyone has equal rights regarding sexual partners and use of the space for these purposes (either everyone can use it, or no-one can; anything else is utterly ridiculous. Unless the magic special couple somehow compensates by paying way more than their share, or something)4. There is a non-clusterfuck plan for where people's food / drink /clothes / etc is going to go, and how you are going to eat meals with everyone's shit sprawled everywhere, etc5. and so on. And you make it clear that unless everyone is willing to agree to these above things that you NEED for a safe and happy burn (which are common sense for any RV crew and which you had a reasonable right to assume would be the way things would be done) then you are pulling out.

Now. Here is the really important part. How do your friends react? Are they sorry to have made you upset, eager to accommodate you, apologetic that they have been inconsiderate, and willing to make this work because they want to spend the burn with you? Or do they understand your concerns, recognize that a grumpy camper can bring everyone down and that it's best to let you smoothly exit? Or, and here's the rub, do they howl about the money you MIGHT end up costing them and how you've betrayed them? In other words, are they ACTUALLY your friends, are they reasonable people, or are they really just using you after all?

Doesn't sound like you're dealing with rational people who have a common plan, including a workable kitchen arrangement, who all have good experience w/ group camping. I'm including you in that description.

I could be wrong. Without further evidence, I agree w/ Simon et al. Get a backbone and do what you need to do. I'd live off cheap tequila, powerbars & cat food for the week, and put the RV money toward a bomb-proof tent.

Today, now two days after I asked for final RV costs, which I figured should be available since one person has already setup a payment plan with the person renting the RV I was told it would be a few more days before the renter will be able to tell me what the cost is. So I went ahead and told the lady of the couple that I have decided the best thing for me is not to camp in the RV. She immediately expressed concern that money has already been spent on the RV and that I need to talk to her BF, the renter, about the costs and dealing with that. And insisted the plan was always for 5 people not 4. When I expressed concern over how the costs were being dealt with and that I am not being told the cost she insisted that it is being split equally and that the only reason I am not being told is a need to get final numbers and that I must deal with the BF on this issue.

I have already contacted other friends on getting a ride down and joining a different camp, it should be sorted with little issue in the next day or so. Unfortunately, it seems even though money hasn't changed hands on the RV issue I will have further strife to deal with there and there is a good likely hood that this is a friendship ending decision.

My friend that also would have been tent camping had her ticket fall through, so she is no longer going. This has bummed us both out, because I would love to have her there no matter what group of people I camped with. However, I am glad that this means the RV group can not blame her for my defection.

The money that was already spent was the deposit. The red flag to me is that someone else has setup a payment plan for their portion, which indicates knowledge of the rental cost to me, but I can't be told the rental costs yet and setup a payment plan myself. Not that I want to at this point, since I already said this isn't going to work out.

Oh god! The uncertainty on the cost would be my red-flag to walk away. The no sex but us would also be a no-go. Then there is the no-plan thing, If I wasn't told (exactly) what the sharing/cleaning, etc arrangement - also a no-go.

Anyone who is really your friend will understand and move past this. There are lots of neat, interesting people on this planet. Why torture yourself over this.

I would not camp with most of my burner friends. They are awesome people, but I need to do Burning Man My Way. That includes a bunch of self-reliance and the freedom to do it as I choose.

No one here has done anything but say "you are making the right decision to not camp with them". We are complete strangers, we understand. Do yourself a favor and take care of yourself.

Remember: You are in control of how you feel. Nothing should ever stop you from being yourself. Anyone who says anything else is not a friend.

Be Free

Love Rice

Roach: "I feel like in this day and age, every girl should know how to build a flamethrower."

stretch80 wrote:Oh god! The uncertainty on the cost would be my red-flag to walk away. The no sex but us would also be a no-go. Then there is the no-plan thing, If I wasn't told (exactly) what the sharing/cleaning, etc arrangement - also a no-go.

Anyone who is really your friend will understand and move past this. There are lots of neat, interesting people on this planet. Why torture yourself over this.

I would not camp with most of my burner friends. They are awesome people, but I need to do Burning Man My Way. That includes a bunch of self-reliance and the freedom to do it as I choose.

No one here has done anything but say "you are making the right decision to not camp with them". We are complete strangers, we understand. Do yourself a favor and take care of yourself.

Remember: You are in control of how you feel. Nothing should ever stop you from being yourself. Anyone who says anything else is not a friend.

Be Free

i fed this into the new Google translate SOP beta and it came out with this...

A deposit isn't "spent", it's a hold on a credit card in case something happens to the vehicle or the rental is cancelled after the date set in the contract (eg: "if the rental is cancelled less than one week from rental the signer will lose 50% of the deposit", but in fancier, legal mumbo-jumbo...)

I have shared a rented RV every single year I've gone- everyone who stays there knows the cost of the RV up front & is given an estimate of expenses (gas, cleaning, misc). For one person to have those numbers & not share is a sign that they will not be "shared" costs, but doled out based on the whim of one of the people in charge.

Plus the fact that there are "rules" about sex that only apply to some people, and that they added a person after you signed on...

As Simon says: fuck 'em. They're not true friends if they're playing games like this. If they have problems with your decision, point them to this thread & let them read the truth...

It's a camping trip in the desert, not the redemption of the fallen world - Cryptofishist

I had been feeling bad about backing out this late in the game since it does change the cost of the RV for the other people going. However, it is an excellent point that I should have known the cost before now and holding me to mystery numbers is not fair to me, and so I do have a right to back out. Also, especially with one other "veteran" burner in the group, even if the virgins don't get it she should. I very much appreciate the support and validation.

That space in the RV is easily filled, someone would even happily pay more for the promised ambience.You can now help out those friends by telling them of the interest shown by so many on the internet for filling your ring-side seat....err....space in the RV.. Win-Win.I'm just trying to keep alive this friendship.

OK, you seem to be worried about these "friends", and it's rather obvious they tried to manipulate you. What exactly are you getting out of this friendship? What was even remotely appealing about sharing a crowded living space with them for a week?

Leave the guilt at home. Go find some new campmates and have a great time.