A certain scene in a pool

The first scene of Chapter 7. Is this a dream sequence from Cnaiur's POV? I assume he must have found Moenghus floating at some point, but the worm coming out the mouth and the pool seems somewhat surreal.

I'm sure during PoN Cnaiur has an almost identical dream of Moenghus Sr. wherein a snake comes out of his mouth? I need to search either TWP or TTT.

I've wondered whether that was Cnaiur or Moe Jr. dreaming it since the first read through. It definitely seems like a dream sequence to me regardless, and given Cnaiur's "Dunyain are worms" speech it would sorta make sense for him, but it would also make it the lone Cnaiur POV in all of TAE, no?

Weirdly, I would interpret it the same way if it was Cnaiur or his son -- that the Dunyain can act through the people they've conditioned well after their own death, and Moenghus the Dunyain has "infected" the line of Skiotha.

I'm of the opinion they're the same dream changed by time. Cnaiur is haunted by symbolic dreams of Moenghus for years. Perhaps since TWP and the birth and naming of Moenghus the Younger Cnaiur has been haunted by symbolic dreams of the latter.

Given that Bakker mentioned to me he wondered what people would think of the various sections repeated across TAE pulled whole from PON, they're likely of thematic/literary importance .

Finally found the section. I had originally thought it just sounded familiar, but in fact, the dream is exactly the same, word for word, from TDTCB, with the some changes: Moenghus Snr replaced by Moenghus Jnr, Cnaiur accorded his title

Chapter 13 of TDTCB and Chapter 7 of TUC if anyone wants to look up the scenes.

It's the nightmare he has the night following discovering Kellhus atop his father's barrow. In TUC it's immediately following the capture of Moenghus after the Scylvendi attack Sorweel, Serwa and Moenghus at the top of Eaglehorn.

Here's the text:

1) Moenghus's face rises from the depths of a pool, pale through the greenish cast of the water. Throughout the surrounding darkness, caverns intertwine, like the thin tunnels one finds beneath large stones pulled from the grass. Just beneath the surface, the pale Dunyain pauses as though tugged by some deep restraint, smiles, and raises his mouth. With horror, Cnaiur watches as an earthworm presses through the smiling lips and pierces the water. It feels the air like a blind finger. Watery and obscene, the bland pink of hidden places. And always, his own inarticulate hand drifts over the pool, and in a quiet moment of insanity, touches it.

2) The face rises from the depths of a pool, pale through the greenish cast of the water. Throughout the surrounding darkness, caverns intertwine, like the thin tunnels one finds beneath large stones pulled from the grass. Just beneath the surface, the turquoise-eyed youth pauses as though tugged by some deep restraint, smiles, and raises his mouth. With horror, the King-of-Tribes watches as an earthworm presses through the smiling lips and pierces the water. It feels the air like a blind finger. Watery and obscene, the bland pink of hidden places. And always, his own inarticulate hand drifts over the pool, and in a quiet moment of insanity, touches it.

I'll be keeping an eye out for other repeated sections Madness! This scene and Saubon in TAE are the only ones that come to mind so far.

I'll be keeping an eye out for other repeated sections Madness! This scene and Saubon in TAE are the only ones that come to mind so far.

I know I spotted at least one more - and as I said Bakker mentioned there were a number of recycled scenes or lines that I didn't catch - but it'll have to wait for my eventually forthcoming reread (that is to say, hope to start next month and probably finish sometime in April/May, at the terrible rate I'm currently reading).

There's definitely some insanity going on in TUC, maybe because these are the end times, like when Proyas declares that "This is the slog of slogs!".

Ugh...

I'm fairly sure Wilshire and I talked about that being fan service after I had already given Bakker my feedback but I was almost sure that Wilshire mentioned it to him.

Then again, apparently, none of the mundane errors (of which that might have been considered) that MG, Wilshire, or I noted made it into the final edition because something something Overlook is garbage.

I'll be keeping an eye out for other repeated sections Madness! This scene and Saubon in TAE are the only ones that come to mind so far.

I know I spotted at least one more - and as I said Bakker mentioned there were a number of recycled scenes or lines that I didn't catch - but it'll have to wait for my eventually forthcoming reread (that is to say, hope to start next month and probably finish sometime in April/May, at the terrible rate I'm currently reading).

There's definitely some insanity going on in TUC, maybe because these are the end times, like when Proyas declares that "This is the slog of slogs!".

Ugh...

I'm fairly sure Wilshire and I talked about that being fan service after I had already given Bakker my feedback but I was almost sure that Wilshire mentioned it to him.

Then again, apparently, none of the mundane errors (of which that might have been considered) that MG, Wilshire, or I noted made it into the final edition because something something Overlook is garbage.

I don't think there was any debate about it being intentional or not on Bakker's part - fairly sure this is the only place on the forum it has even come up (though FB and I talked about it briefly in one of our conversations).