I think a lot of people have come around to understand that Roach has been severely overrated as a trainer, it's Pacquiao's natural abilities which any half-decent coach could have nurtured just as effectively as Roach did. Remember that Roach himself said when he first saw Pacquiao at Wild Card he knew he had a world champion on his hands from watching how good he was in sparring.

Does the same apply to Ward and Hunter? Is Ward a naturally-gifted fighter who just needed any half-decent coach to get the same results, or is Hunter one of the most influential factors that dictates how good Ward is as a fighter?

100% yes. I have been saying for YEARS on here that Roach was only as good as Pacman, and once he was gone people would see him for what he was. Depending on who you talked to on here you would hear that Roach was anything from the best trainer in boxing history to some prophet who could tell the future of all fights. He struck gold win Manny, just like Hunter has with Ward. Guys like Ward, Mayweather, Martinez ect could go train with a lot of different guys at this point and be just as successful as they are with their current trainers.

Hunter does sound like he knows what he is talking about when he gives advice in the corner. He may or may not be a product of Ward, I don't know enough about him, but he shouldn't be called a sh** trainer if he doesn't turn Khan into an elite, world beating fighter. Just like Roach shouldn't.

Be honest, how many trainers have trained multiple ATG fighters? Doesn't mean the guys who haven't are bad.

Saw your comment in the other thread, good topic. I think we'll only know depending on how much Khan improves under Hunter. If he can reboot Khan's career and train him to beat top opponents, than it's safe to say that Hunter is THAT good.

Saw your comment in the other thread, good topic. I think we'll only know depending on how much Khan improves under Hunter. If he can reboot Khan's career and train him to beat top opponents, than it's safe to say that Hunter is THAT good.

I am not sn will be able to change easily. His style is very ingrained and did not seem to change much after he went to Roach. Khan is very fast but also very thick (uninteligent). His speed will mean that he will have difficulty being able to think fast enough to keep up with it so he will go to his go to natual style under pressure and revert to form. However if Hunter does manage to change him for the better that will be a clear indicator he is a miracle worker but if Khan stays the same that is not an indicator that Hunter is no good because Khan has not really changed under anyone else enough to atribute that to his coaching.

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. It's still a fighters job to think themselves through like 80% of the fight situation, so yeah a great fighter is gonna be responsible for the great trainer most of the time.

What does Mayweather say every time he faces a trainer with "the recipe" to beat him? The fighter is still the one that has to execute it.

We'll see what Virgil does with Khan, but it has very little bearing to me on whether or not he is a great trainer since for one Khan has habits already beaten into him so he's not an impressionable little kid that Hunter has a vision for. The best he can do is try to make Khan limit his mistakes.