Thursday, September 08, 2005

A four-year-old's testimony of conversion

Sometimes those of us who are unwilling to jump and down with joy upon hearing reports of hundreds of children accepting Jesus as their "forever Daddy" are accused of not believing in childhood conversions. To question how children are evangelized is to position yourself in the minds of some as being an unbelieving skeptic or at least an evangelism-killing curmudgeon.

But I want to be clear that I fully believe that God can and does save children. Age is no barrier to saving grace. We should long for children to be converted as children and we should evangelize children as children. But we should do so with a clear understanding that it is the same evangel that both children and adults need in order to be saved. There is no "gospel light" just as there is no "American gospel" that differs from a "Zambian gospel." The Gospel that saves children is the same one that saves adults. That does not mean that we should expect children to have an adult understanding or articulation of the faith. You cannot put a 30-year-old head on a 4-year-old child. But the grace of God that brings salvation to all men works to produce the same fruit in all people regardless of age. That is, children as well as adults who receive saving grace should be expected to be learning to say no to ungodliness and worldly lusts and to live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present age (Titus 2:11ff).

Children who are converted can and do bear such fruit. Following is one of my favorite testimony's of childhood conversion. Her name is Phebe Bartlet and she was converted at age 4 under Jonathan Edwards' ministry. This is his account of her story. It comes from his Narrative of Surprising Conversions in volume 1 of the Banner of Truth edition of his works, pages 361-363.

But I now proceed to the other instance, that of the little child before mentioned. Her name is Phebe Bartlet* [here the editor adds a footnote which states, "She was living in March, 1789, and maintained the character of a true convert."] daughter of William Bartlet. I shall give the account as I took it from the mouth of her parents, whose veracity none who know them doubt of.

She was born in March, 1731. About the latter end of April, or beginning of May, 1735, she was greatly affected by the talk of her brother, who had been hopefully converted a little before, at about eleven years of age, and then seriously talked to her about the great things of religion. Her parents did not know of it at that time, and were not wont, in the counsels they gave to their children, particularly to direct themselves to her, being so young, and, as they supposed, not capable of understanding. But after her brother had talked to her, they observed her very earnestly listen to the advice they gave to the other children; and she was observed very constantly to retire, several times in a day, as was concluded, for secret prayer. She grew more and more engaged in religion, and was more frequent in her closet; till at last she was wont to visit it five or six times a day: and was so engaged in it, that nothing would at any time divert her from her stated closet exercises. Her mother often observed and watched her, when such things occurred as she thought most likely to divert her, either by putting it out of her thoughts, or otherwise engaging her inclinations; but never could observe her to fail. She mentioned some very remarkable instances.

She once of her own accord spake of her unsuccessfulness, in that she could not find God, or to that purpose. But on Thursday, the last day of July, about the middle of the day, the child being in the closet, where it used to retire, its mother heard it speaking aloud; which was unusual, and never had been observed before. And her voice seemed to be as of one exceedingly importunate and engaged; but her mother could distinctly hear only these words, spoken in a childish manner, but with extraordinary earnestness, and out of distress Of Soul, PRAY, BLESSED LORD, give me salvation! I PRAY, BEG, pardon all my sins! When the child had done prayer, she came out of the closet, sat down by her mother, and cried out aloud. Her mother very earnestly asked her several times what the matter was, before she would make any answer; but she continued crying, and writhing her body to and fro, like one in anguish of spirit. Her mother then asked her, whether she was afraid that God would not give her salvation. She then answered, Yes, I am afraid I shall go to hell! Her mother then endeavoured to quiet her, and told her she would not have her cry, she must be a good girl, and pray every day, and she hoped God would give her salvation. But this did not quiet her at all; she continued thus earnestly crying, and taking on for some time, till at length she suddenly ceased crying, and began to smile, and presently said with a smiling countenance, Mother, the kingdom of heaven is come to me! Her mother was surprised at the sudden alteration, and at the speech; and knew not what to make of it; but at first said nothing to her. The child presently spake again, and said, There is another come to me, and there is another, there is three; and being asked what she meant, she answered, One is, Thy will be done, and there is another, Enjoy him for ever; by which it seems, that when the child said, There is three come to me; she meant three passages of her catechism that came to her mind.

After the child had said this, she retired again into her closet, and her mother went over to her brother's, who was next neighbour; and when she came back, the child, being come out of the closet, meets her mother with this cheerful speech; I can find God now! referring to what she had before complained of, that she could not find God. Then the child spoke again and said, I love God! Her mother asked her, how well she loved God, whether she loved God better than her father and mother. She said, Yes. Then she asked her, whether she loved God better than her little sister Rachel. She answered, Yes, better than any thing! Then her elder sister, referring to her saying she could find God now, asked her, where she could find God. She answered, In heaven. Why, said she, have you been in heaven? No, said the child. By this it seems not to have been any imagination of any thing seen with bodily eyes, that she called God, when she said, I can find God now. Her mother asked her, whether she was afraid of going to hell, and if that had made her cry? She answered, Yes, I was; but now I shan't. Her mother asked her, whether she thought that God had given her salvation: she answered, Yes. Her mother asked her. When? She answered, Today. She appeared all that afternoon exceeding cheerful and joyful. One of the neighbours asked her, how she felt herself. She answered, I feel better than I did. The neighbour asked her, what made her feel better. She answered, God makes me. That evening, as she lay a-bed, she called one of her little cousins to her, who was present in the room, as having something to say to him; and when he came, she told him, that Heaven was better than earth. The next day, her mother asked her what God made her for? She answered, To serve him; and added, Every body should serve God, and get an interest in Christ.

The same day the elder children, when they came home from school, seemed much affected with the extraordinary change that seemed to be made in Phebe. And her sister Abigail standing by, her mother took occasion to counsel her, now to improve her time, to prepare for another world. On which Phebe burst out in tears, and cried out, Poor Nabby! Her mother told her, she would not have to cry; she hoped that God would give Nabby salvation; but that did not quiet her, she continued earnestly crying for some time. When she had in a measure ceased, her sister Eunice being by her, she burst out again, and cried, Poor Eunice! and cried exceedingly; and when she had almost done, she went into another room, and there looked up on her sister Naomi: and burst out again, crying, Poor Amy I Her mother was greatly affected at such a behaviour in a child, and knew not what to say to her. One of the neighbours coming in a little after, asked her what she had cried for. She seemed at first backward to tell the reason: her mother told her she might tell that person, for he had given her an apple: upon which she said, she cried because she was afraid they would go to hell.

At night, a certain minister, who was occasionally in the town, was at the house, and talked with her of religious things. After he was gone, she sat leaning on the table, with tears running from her eyes; and being asked what made her cry, she said, It was thinking about God. The next day, being Saturday, she seemed a great part of the day to be in a very affectionate frame, had four turns of crying and seemed to endeavour to curb herself, and hide her tears, and was very backward to talk of the occasion. On the Sabbath-day she was asked, whether she believed in God; she answered, Yes. And being told that Christ was the Son of God, she made ready answer, and said, I know it.

From this time there appeared a very remarkable abiding change in the child. She has been very strict upon the Sabbath; and seems to long for the Sabbath-day before it comes, and will often in the week time be inquiring how long it is to the Sabbathday, and must have the days between particularly counted over, before she will be contented. She seems to love God's house, and is very eager to go thither. Her mother once asked her, why she had such a mind to go? Whether it was not to see fine folks? She said, No, it was to hear Mr. Edwards preach. When she is in the place of worship, she is very far from spending her time there as children at her age usually do, but appears with an attention that is very extraordinary for such a child. She also appears very desirous at all opportunities to go to private religious meetings; and is very still and attentive at home, during prayer, and has appeared affected in time of family-prayer. She seems to delight much in hearing religious conversation. When I once was there with some strangers, and talked to her something of religion, she seemed more than ordinarily attentive; and when we were gone, she looked out very wistfully after us, and said, I wish they would come again! Her mother asked her, Why? Says she, I love to hear 'em talk.

She seems to have very much of the fear of God before her eyes, and an extraordinary dread of sinning against him; of which her mother mentioned the following remarkable instance. Some time in August, the last year, she went with some bigger children to get some plums in a neighbour's lot, knowing nothing of any harm in what she did; but when she brought some of the plums into the house, her mother mildly reproved her, and told her that she must not get plums without leave, because it was sin: God had commanded her not to steal. The child seemed greatly surprised, and burst out in tears, and cried out, I won't have these plums! and turning to her sister Eunice, very earnestly said to her, Why did you ask me to go to that plum-tree? I should not have gone, if you had not asked me. The other children did not seem to be much affected or concerned; but there was no pacifying Phebe. Her mother told her, she might go and ask leave, and then it would not be sin for her to eat them; and sent one of the children to that end; and, when she returned, her mother told her that the owner had given leave, now she might eat them, and it would not be stealing. This stilled her a little while; but presently she broke out again into an exceeding fit of crying. Her mother asked her, What made her cry again? Why she cried now, since they had asked leave? What it was that troubled her now? And asked her several times very earnestly, before she made any answer; but at last said, It was because, BECAUSE IT WAS SIN. She continued a considerable time crying; and said she would not go again if Eunice asked her an hundred times; and she retained her aversion to that fruit for a considerable time, under the remembrance of her former sin.

She sometimes appears greatly affected, and delighted with texts of Scripture that come to her mind. Particularly about the beginning of November, that text came to her mind, Rev. 3: 20. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in, and sup with him, and he with me." She spoke of it to those of the family with a great appearance of joy, a smiling countenance, and elevation of voice; and afterwards she went into another room, where her mother overheard her talking very earnestly to the children about it; and particularly heard her say to them, three or four times over, with an air of exceeding joy and admiration, Why, it is to sup WITH GOD. Some time about the middle of winter, very late in the night, when all were a-bed, her mother perceived that she was awake, and heard her, as though she was weeping. She called to her, and asked her what was the matter. She answered with a low voice, so that her mother could not hear what she said; but thinking that it might be occasioned by some spiritual affection, said no more to her: but perceived her to lie awake, and to continue in the same frame, for a considerable time. The next morning she asked her, whether she did not cry the last night. The child answered, Yes, I did cry a little, for I was thinking about God and Christ, and they loved me. Her mother asked her, whether to think of God and Christ loving her made her cry? She answered, Yes, it does sometimes.

She has often manifested a great concern for the good of others' souls: and has been wont many times affectionately to counsel the other children. Once, about the latter end of September, the last year, when she and some others of the children were in a room by themselves, husking Indian corn, the child, after a while, came out and sat by the fire. Her mother took notice that she appeared with a more than ordinary serious and pensive countenance; but at last she broke silence, and said, I have been talking to Nabby and Eunice. Her mother asked her what she had said to them. Why, said she, I told them they must pray, and prepare to die; that they had but a little while to live in this world, and they must be always ready. When Nabby came out, her mother asked her, whether she had said that to them. Yes, said she, She said that, and a great deal more. At other times, the child took opportunities to talk to the other children about the great concern of their souls, so as much to affect them. She was once exceeding importunate with her mother to go with her sister Naomi to pray: her mother endeavoured to put her off; but she pulled her by the sleeve, and seemed as if she would by no means be denied. At last her mother told her, that Amy must go and pray by herself; but, says the child, she will not go; and persisted earnestly to beg of her mother to go with her.

She has discovered an uncommon degree of a spirit of charity, particularly on the following occasion. A poor man that lives in the woods, had lately lost a cow that the family much depended on; and being at the house, he was relating his misfortune, and telling of the straits and difficulties they were reduced to by it. She took much notice of it, and it wrought exceedingly on her compassion. After she had attentively heard him awhile, she went away to her father, who was in the shop, and entreated him to give that man a cow: and told him, that the poor man had no cow! that the hunters, or something else, had killed his cow! and entreated him to give him one of theirs. Her father told her that they could not spare one. Then she entreated him to let him and his family come and live at his house: and had much more talk of the same nature, whereby she manifested bowels of compassion to the poor.

She has manifested great love to her minister: particularly when I returned from my long journey for my health, the last fall. When she heard of it, she appeared very joyful at the news, and told the children of it, with an elevated voice, as the most joyful tidings; repeating it over and over. Mr. Edwards is come home! Mr. Edwards is come home! She still continues very constant in secret prayer, so far as can be observed, for she seems to have no desire that others should observe her when she retires, being a child of a reserved temper. Every night, before she goes to bed, she will say her catechism, and will by no means miss. She never forgot it but once, and then, after she was a-bed, thought of it, and cried out in tears, I han't said my catechism! and would not be quieted till her mother asked her the catechism as she lay in bed. She sometimes appears to be in doubt about the condition of her soul; and when asked, whether she thinks that she is prepared for death, speaks something doubtfully about it. At other times she seems to have no doubt, but when asked, replies, Yes, without hesitation.

Wow... I'm not sure what else to say. I concur with Gene... I wish I saw more of that in all conversions, and that kind of love for God among all the saints in our churches. Even I am not as passionate at times as that child was. Thank God for this testimony!

My oldest son is nearly five and I serve as a children’s minister – so this topic is more than a hypothetical for me.

I should agree with Edwards that this is a surprising conversion – not the normative experience for childhood conversion. The puritan ideal of conversion is helpful in our age of decisional regeneration. However, taking the experience of others as the normative experience is a dangerous route.

No one here believes that God’s grace is bound by developmental psychology. But at what age should we begin to expect God’s work of conversion? With my children I emphasize the greatness of God, the sin in our heart that fights against God, Jesus Christ who can remove our sins and become our righteousness. We talk about the cross, justification and Christ’s offer of grace. I model repentance and faith.

I pray for my son’s salvation.I teach him the Gospel. But only God can convert him.

It was said recently by somebody at our church that 80% of people who are saved are saved before the age of 18. Leaving aside the nature of statistics, this nevertheless set me thinking.

To the person who made the comment, the conclusion was obvious: we must make the most of every effort to reach children with the gospel while they are still at this age of opportunity.

I am not certain that we have a biblical warrant for expecting more young people to be saved than older, though experience, it seems, points in this direction. But perhaps we are getting our cause and effects mixed up?

Is it possible that we see more conversions among the young as a reflection of the time, effort and expense we put into reaching them? Many churches run special classes for children, midweek activities and youth services. They employ youth pastors who concentrate on reaching young people (all of which is fine). But few have the same number or quality of events aimed at adults or pensioners. Few have a pastor employed to reach the elderly. If the same efforts were put in to reaching the over 60s, perhaps we would see more saved at that age?

Praise God for those saved at an early age. I was, as are my children. But is it possible we are being 'ageist' in our evangelism?

I think it is also possible that more people are "saved" before the age of 18 than after because their "salvation" consists of asking Jesus to be their "forever Daddy." God bless men like Johnathan Edwards and others who have followed who live to see the true gospel presented.

Tony is right...we do have to be careful of making the various details of this experience normative for all children (or people for that matter).

But at the same time, shouldn't the basic elements present in this case be typical of genuine conversion?

-desire to pray-seriousness about spiritual matters-acute awareness of sin-desire to be with God's people-love for the Church-desire to see the unconverted saved-compassion on the needy-desire to grow in knowledge of the Lord-growing assurance of God's love for her

Tom, you are right on- these things may not be manifested in children in the exact way as they do in adults, but we do still need to pray that this type of fruit will be seen in some way.

My oldest is 4 and I pray that these things begin to be manifested moreso in him.

Thankfully we have a sovereign God who can even change the hearts of young children and make them new creations in Jesus Christ!

Excellent discussion, and fruitful as well. In my last pastorate, there were mumblings among some that I was not "interested" enough in "children's evangelism." This criticism stemmed from the fact that my predecessor was very diligent about getting to every child just around the time they turned 6/7 and getting them to profess faith. Baptisms followed, the yearly SBC Annual Report looked good, and the people rejoiced! Meanwhile, when I came to the church, we had a youth group that was almost COMPLETELY VOID of any regenerate teens! We had teens in drugs, alcohol, sexual activity, dating lives, etc... Many pastors feel this same frustration. So I became very hesitant about the way I approached small children (pre 10 years old or so, varying on the maturity of each child.) This does NOT make me "disinterested" in children's conversions. Rather, I want to be careful not to give a FALSE ASSURANCE to a child who may not really grasp the concepts of faith, repentance, regeneration, etc...

My own children are 6 and 4. They both answer upwards of 100 questions on the children's catechism found in Dr. Nettles "Teaching Truths..." They know more doctrine than most of my adult members in a congregation of over 200. My daughter already "professes" (i.e. calls) herself a Christian and disciple of Jesus. But even when SHE has come to me asking about baptism, I have tried to err on the side of waiting by contenting myself with the knowledge that a good foundation is being laid for a true, change of heart regeneration in God's own time. We pray together each day, and sometimes she is more compassionate and concerned than I am! But I want to be sure not to mistake child-like mimicry with genuine conversions.

In my church, I am starting a 3-week class this Sunday (9/11) on the use of Catechisms for the training of children, using Dr. Nettles book. I think more of us concerned brethren should consider this route to counter the unhealthy child-evangelism methodology that is out there today. After all, most of our parents have no clue what to do with our young children except to plop them in front of the TV and let the world fill their young minds. Give them alternatives men! Give the seeds that the Spirit can grow into faith and regeneration!

I too struggle the way the converion of children is presented but do beleive that children can and are called just as adults are. For another read on childhood conversions see (now here is one of those good long titles):

A Token for Children: Being an Exact Account of the Conversion, Holy and Exemplary Lives, and Joyful Deaths of Several Young Children in Two Parts to Which Is Added a token by James Janeway and Cotton Mather.

It reveals some very intersting stories of children truly seeing their sin for what it was in ways that even many adults do not see it.

The title is "Teaching Truth, Training Hearts" by Tom Nettles of SBTS. It is an appeal from Dr. Nettles for a return to catechizing, covering the historical evidence of their use in Baptist churches. It also contains many sample historical Baptist catechisms.

Sadly, most Baptist Churches today are full of unregenerate members; most of which were baptized as children. But we are only reaping where we have sown. For years the SBC has been concerned with one thing… Baptisms! That’s it, nothing else mattered. The effectiveness of your ministry and the worth of your church were measured by the number of baptisms (children included) you turned in on your ACP. Pastors even include their baptism numbers on their resume when looking for that bigger and better church. The numbers sure looked good for a time. But no one stopped to consider what would be the long term consequences of such reckless disregard for genuine conversions in favor of quick and false professions of faith in order to pad our numbers.

Yes, I do believe children can be, and actually are, saved according to the grace of God.

But I want to ask all my fellow Baptist a question, “If we believe that it is the grace of God that saves someone (even a child) then why are we in such a hurry to get them Baptized? What is the harm in waiting to see if there is fruit that gives evidence that a work of God’s grace has indeed taken place? This is what Dr. Criswell did for many years at First Baptist Church Dallas when he refused to baptize children under a certain age. This is what John “the Baptist” did when he told the Pharisees and Sadducees who came to him to be baptized, “who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance.”

Now I dare say “John the Baptist” would not have made a good Southern Baptist. Refusing to baptize these good Pharisees and Sadducees who came all the way out there in the wilderness just to be baptized and join his movement/church. And I wonder how many Mega Churches would hire a young Dr. Criswell today when informed that he would not baptize children and the churches baptism numbers would certainly go down under his ministry?

Do we rush the little ones into repeating a prayer and get them baptized as soon as possible because we actually believe their salvation is secured by words and water? I do not think that most Baptist believe this way. Then why do we do it?

The psychological manipulation of children (as described in Tom’s post yesterday) in order to get them to mimic a prayer that is supposed to save them is nothing less than Blaspheme! No child is done a favor when they are led into making a false profession, and God is certainly not honored when they grow up to become the next generation of unregenerate members of the Church.

I think we underestimate the mental capacity of our children, and for our youth for that matter. We try to speak their "language" because we don't think they'll understand. I think we also underestimate God by not fully trusting Him who alone can convert the soul (as Tony said).

If you don't mind I'd like to give a shout out to Emmanuel Baptist in Great Cacapon, WV! I know ya'll are reading this!

>>>> Few have a pastor employed to reach the elderly. If the same efforts were put in to reaching the over 60s, perhaps we would see more saved at that age?

Agreed. This population is an untapped resource. It seems folks assume they know the Lord. After all, grandma must be a Christian, right?

Um, no. This truth was driven home for me in college. I was put in charge of the Nursing Home Ministry for the Christian Student Union @ Wingate University in NC my Junior year. I will never forget going to visit the residents with the two young ladies assisting me on my team that year. This apparently nice little lady wanted to chat with us. We went with her, and, when we were alone, she proceeded to spew a string of expletives and sexual innuendo that would make a sailor blush! I'm surprised her head didn't spin around. We were speechless, although we did laugh a bit. I mean, it was sad, but it was also one of those terribly absurd moments when you think one thing and boy do you find another. Wow. Old folks need the Lord!

On the other hand, the account says nothing about the child’s belief in the work of Jesus Christ on the cross. Isn’t this necessary for salvation?

Certainly, a 4 year old child does not have the reasoning ability of an adult, but does God remove any requirements for salvation for them, or any other classes of individuals?

Are young children saved without belief in Jesus Christ as Savior?Does God give His grace of salvation without this belief?Hopefully, Phebe did believe this even though this very important thing is absent the account.

Beyond this, isn’t is possible for an unconverted person to be emotionally fond of things and persons related to religion?Couldn’t all of the characteristics in jmattingly ‘s insightful list be true of a person who is not converted? maybe of a devout Catholic? or of a devout Baptist?