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Re: Still in denial. Is he gay or bi?

Kel wrote:

It's kind of crazy how much some people must be thinking of sex for them to spend so much time thinking about their secret desires and wanting to indulge in them. I mean,.... I have a healthy, normal sex drive. And I enjoy a multitude of fun things. But I rarely think about it all ahead of time. When it's go time, it's spontaneous and intuitive - we go to wherever we're going together. One of us doesn't have the kind of sex we want "planned out", and are asking the other to fill a role. The fact that they know so much about what they like (that they don't have an opportunity to do with us) just.... boggles my mind.

I suppose every once in a while I might think ahead of time about doing something special, but it's more likely a setting - like candles, soft music, massage oil. Start off with a massage. That sort of thing. I'm not creating an environment for the experience - not the actual experience. Every once in a while my dh will say someting, "Well hello,.... what's your name? Are you the one I sent for?" at the beginning of an encounter. I either play along by giving him an alternate name, or I give him my own name - to signal him that I'm ME and I'm not playing anyone else right now. If he pushes back, it's usually in jest - "I ordered the *full experience*", and then I'm like, "It's me - your WIFE. *full experience* means you go homemade mashed potatoes with your dinner tonight." And then he straightens out real fast. I don't mind escaping reality every once in a while. But really don't desire to be anyone else too often - I like being me - with him.

After my last unsatisfying marriage, I did have several requirements around intimacy that I wanted met before I committed to anything serious long-term. I needed to find the person attractive. I needed to feel that they felt the same. I needed a level of passion that was fairly intense. I needed to have an acceptable level (for me) of frequency. And I needed him to be both adventurous but satisfied with mostly vanilla sex. I didn't want to be stifled again like in my last relationship - where anything BUT vanilla was looked at as "crazy". And I didn't want anyone that required kinks and/or fetishes as a necessity in order to be excited. No WAY was I getting stuck on THAT end of the spectrum, either. I'd had one pseudo mini relationship where the man I was dating wanted that, and it was too much. And I didn't find it enjoyable. I need balanced all the way along, every day. Our GID partners seem to be too far one way or the other for balance with a straight partner. And they are either unwilling or unable to fix it. And that's game over, for me.

Kel

Thanks Kel,Very good point here. I never want to plan sex out. It should just flow. And I agree, a healthy sex drive is not his case here. But at first we feel like the prudes not understanding this desire.

and your last paragraph really gets my wheels turning. I have never allowed myself what I want /need. Its ok to be selfish sometimes. This is helping me cope with the guilt of leaving him.

Re: Still in denial. Is he gay or bi?

What you do here is your choice but ask yourself hard questions such as how many more times or for how long are you prepared to wait and see if he can 'work on it' again? Divorce is not always a quick process. There is nothing that says you have to put yourself on 'pause' while he figures himself out. After everything you have had to deal with, him making that a condition of his attempt to change his behaviour (again) smacks of manipulation, in my opinion.

Edit - he may not be demanding this as a condition but he is playing on making you feel guilty about it. It's unfair and a bit passive agressive, IMHO.

Re: Still in denial. Is he gay or bi?

So if you leave he will think about how you could have made it (if only you hadn't left). That is putting the onus on you. He has it the wrong way around: if you leave he can think about how you could have made it if only he hadn't been sexually attracted to transsexuals. He wants you to stay while he tries to suppress his sexuality; what about if you split up and he tries to suppress his sexuality and when he's successfully done that and proved to you that he has then he can ask whether you're still willing to take a chance on him. I'm with Daryl, it's passive-aggressive to put the onus on you, as if you're the one breaking the marriage. But he changed the terms of the marriage contract when he decided that his heterosexual life with his heterosexual wife wasn't enough for him.

Re: Still in denial. Is he gay or bi?

Re: Still in denial. Is he gay or bi?

He can't fix it. They all think that. He may be able to commit to (and follow through on) being faithful, but that doesn't take the thoughts and desires away. For some, cutting out the action portion or the acting-on-it part are enough. For me, it wasn't. I wanted his desire to be for me. No matter whether he was being faithful or not, that didn't seem to be happening. I wasn't what he desired. And I needed that in my marriage. I have it now. I can't even begin to fathom how I lived so long without this. The hoops I jumped through just to be with the man Iiiii wanted when HE didn't want ME were just.... exhausting. And in the end, pointless. The longer I tried, the longer I suffered was all.

Tenacity is only a good personality trait when its paired with realistic expectations. We've all read and heard too many stories about how someone stuck in there 'till the end, and how they MADE it to the finish line. Only..... that's the finish line? Death? The finish line should be healthy happiness. Otherwise all tenacity is the same. A crack addict could stay committed to their drug until it kills them - they were committed and believed until the end that this stuff was what they wanted. It was never good for them, though. It was never a sound choice. It was never going to bring them true happiness. I'm tired of us all feeling like we have to stick out unhealthy, unhappy marriages in order to be seen as having persevered - of having been committed enough, and believing enough, and trying until the end. What's the prize, then? A mention in a newspaper of you having made it to 50 years? Even if all 50 years were miserable??? That's the ENTIRE prize then, too - no the envy of people who can see your healthy, happy relationship.

If he wants to be with ladyboys, let him. You go be with a man that wants to be with a healthy, balanced, happy, amazing woman. This isn't that man.

Kel

You are not required to set yourself on fire to keep other people warm.

Re: Still in denial. Is he gay or bi?

This morning I showed him an article about the psychological trauma to straight spouses in a MOM after disclosure. I showed him because it hits the nail on the head with what we have been going through and it helped me understand my emotions. And maybe it will help him understand mine... Even though he says he does.

I told him, regardless of whether you stay faithful or not, at this point i dont know if i can be with you any longer because of your attraction to trannys.

He sent me this message later:

"I am not trying at all to push you to make any decision now. I just want to say that regardless of the the outcome I believe this is worth one more try because of our level of awareness and acceptance in the situation. Even if I'm successful in managing my addiction and you're still left feeling unhappy I think that we can both walk away from this marriage completely knowing that there is nothing left we could do to make it work. It would be absolute closure for the both of us. And would make it easier to move on with our lives."

Re: Still in denial. Is he gay or bi?

Not every case is identical but sometimes our spouses are so self-absorbed in themselves it is impossible to get them to see or empathize with what is happening on the other side of the coin. My thoughts are to keep your expectations low on him having some sort of epiphany about what his actions create in your world.

As for his message, I think he is pushing and again trying to make it all upon you. The line about awareness and acceptance is double-edged. There is a big difference between being aware and accepting his issues (as in 'it is just who he is') vs wanting to live with that for the rest of your life. Some of our spouses try to use our knowledge of them as a weapon. As in 'you knew' 'why are you surprised'. It gets spun into permission to explore.

As well consider addiction vs desire. Is this really an addiction? What is there that you could possible do to help him manage this? Lock him in a room without internet? Why is this for you to do?

Finally, closure is what and when you say it is. Not all of us get a nice tidy closure. Just knowledge that it wasn't working and we were not happy.

Re: Still in denial. Is he gay or bi?

Daryl wrote:

Not every case is identical but sometimes our spouses are so self-absorbed in themselves it is impossible to get them to see or empathize with what is happening on the other side of the coin. My thoughts are to keep your expectations low on him having some sort of epiphany about what his actions create in your world.

As for his message, I think he is pushing and again trying to make it all upon you. The line about awareness and acceptance is double-edged. There is a big difference between being aware and accepting his issues (as in 'it is just who he is') vs wanting to live with that for the rest of your life. Some of our spouses try to use our knowledge of them as a weapon. As in 'you knew' 'why are you surprised'. It gets spun into permission to explore.

As well consider addiction vs desire. Is this really an addiction? What is there that you could possible do to help him manage this? Lock him in a room without internet? Why is this for you to do?

Finally, closure is what and when you say it is. Not all of us get a nice tidy closure. Just knowledge that it wasn't working and we were not happy.

Good luck and peace be with you. Best wishes for 2018.

Thanks Daryl! Your support is awesome! I am feeling pretty strong here, for the first time in a long time. Its like I am remembering who I was before this happened. I want her back. I see how hard I have compromised my core orientation and values. I see all the manipulation, subconscious or not. And you are right, accepting it vs living with it are two different things. I have tried so hard. I give myself credit for that. Im just tired. I dont want to try to fix it anymore.