Anyway, this to illustrate the male/female
unity of God and the manifestation of God as male and female
on the physical plane. Why then interpret the Trinity as God
the Father, God the Son (Sun - shouldn't really be male in a
strict sense, but another topic) and God the Holy Spirit and
interpret this as a "He"? It is the Holy Spirit which
INCARNATES the LOGOS or Sun of God, and through whom did He incarnate
in the physical? And who was specifically present in the upper
room at Pentecost with the disciples? I have some pictures somewhere
around here of Mary in the middle of the circle as they receive
the flame above their heads - most rosary pictures have it that
way. Again, SHE brings it down into them. SHE IS the manifestation
of the Divine Female. And not just ONE Mary - but THREE Marys.

Dottie

I am wondering if you see Magdalene sitting
to the left of Jesus at the last Supper? Do you see her in the
room? Have you ever seen the painting, don't know whose it is,
where the finger of God reaches out and touches the finger of
man? Up until this year I thought that was the whole painted
picture. It is not. Under the bridge of a place I drive past
is a mural of the whole picture or at least what I can feel is
the whole picture: God with his arms enfolding a woman and a
child. Incredible.

There is a book called Crone, don't recall
the author at the moment, that really allowed me to move further
on my search for the Marys' mystery. It was there that I was
able to connect the symbolism of the three Marys. And they can
be found throughout history of the OT as well as Hindu/Buddist/Sumerian
texts.

Christine

But I see Mary Magdalene as the third in
the Female Trinity of God.

******** Please make note that I am not saying
that MARY MAGDELENE is the female element in the Trinity. I am
saying that the Holy Spirit is in its essence, the Divine Female
and that it Manifests as a feminine trinity - Eva Maria, the
soul force of the Heart - Maria Sophia, the soul force of the
Head - Maria Magdelena, the soul force of the Will. The MARY
in the upper room, actually was an incarnation of all three.
The physical body of the EVA Maria was already bearing the Ego
of the Maria Sophia within her (see The Gospel of St. Luke -
Rudolf Steiner) Even though Mary Magdelene was in the body still,
supposedly, I personally feel that her Ego was somehow melded
with the other two, although I may not be able to justify this
with something in writing. Through the power of the MARY as TRINITY
of the Female Divine, the Holy Spirit (The Comforter) was incarnated
in human kind for all eternity. I believe that Steiner did say
once that the mysteries of the feminine would be explored by
someone who would come after him, that it wasn't necessarily
his task. I'll try to find that reference.

Of course, there have been "pre-Christian"
manifestations of the Female Divine, just as there were "pre-Christian"
manifestations of the Christ as Sun God. Please make clear note
- I am saying MANIFESTATION - NOT INCARNATION!!! There have never
been and never will be any other INCARNATIONs of the Christ.

(sorry for the caps, I am not shouting, but
when I "bold" or italic, it doesn't come through and
I want to emphasis. My browser does not support HTML and I can't
write properly.

Dottie

I see her there as well. For me she is
the Daughter Voice of God. Never really thought of it being the
third but it makes sense if we look at mother father child.

ChristineShe was the one who first saw the Risen Christ. There were
three Marys accounted for at the foot of the cross, also.

ALSO - Dottie you said this:

But what does that really mean? See for
me, my work is leading me to find the Father and I think the
Father is the physical reality and that is why we are all male
and female. I think that is what Magdalene meant when she said

'he is going to make males of us all' (
meaning Christ)...

to me that means they are all going to
become Suns or rayers of God. I believe the female part of us
is the spirit. Therefore we, as human beings are all male and
female.

Please tell me WHERE she says that!!! Is it
in the BIBLE?? If so, Please give me the chapter and verse -
I really want to see it for myself. Doesn't ring a bell at all.
In fact, I don't recall any quotes of her at all except when
she meets The Risen Christ and asks him where he put her teacher
(rabbi).

This is really, really important to me, so
please find me that quote. Thank you!

We are still not seeing eye to eye (one of us must be from Iowa!)
but that's OK. However, I want to make a few things clear in
the following segment of our discussion.

Dear Christine,

Yes we are. I just don't express my understandings
very well. They ALL line up with what you have found.

In the Nag Hammadi Library there is a book
called Mary. You shall find it there. As well it is quite interesting
to read Philip and the Voice of Thunder.

I have a few other thoughts I am working on,
well not right now, however they tend to freak people out or
whatever...anyway I think the fourth gospel is inspired by Magdalene
and I believe it was SHE who was raised under the cover of Lazarus,
which means the one whom God helps.

You have such a greater way of expressin than
I. I don't know why I can not pull it down into the written word.
It stays within me and comes out pretty jumbled. I remember another
list mate who said that I am stuck in one of the three levels
that Dr. STeiner states we come with in our soul. I seem not
to be able, and truly I think he was right, that there seems
to be NO WAY I can overcome this way of being. I have come to
see that my mind just does not connect things in an intellectual
manner. No matter how much study I think. I would almost have
to rewire my brain it seems.

You are right on Christine. Do you find many
people who agree with you? Also I am wondering if you can share,
because I think it is important to lay the groundwork for others,
how you came upon such a thing. Unless it is too personal however,
I have to say it is really important just as Steiners work is
for this to throw a light on this path.

Do you recognize my cheeky "from Iowa"
dig? It's from the "Music Man" - line about two Iowans
standing nose to nose for a week and "never see eye to eye."
I was trying to make a funny! As Red Skelton (my personal saint)
once or twice said, "Don't take life too seriously - none
of us are getting out of it alive." : )

We do need to lighten up a little bit now
and then.

I have been madly researching in the Bible
for that line by Mary Magdalene - so it's in the Nag Hammadi???
I'll start looking there.

There are levels and levels to understanding
all of this. Thank you for the compliments, but your understanding
is just fine. As someone said in another post, on another Steiner
group, it is so different to try to communicate throughthis medium than to study something in person
with a group. There is so much communication that goes on at
other levels. On the other hand, by having to express ourselves
in writing, we might make a few ideas more clear than we had
expressed before.

I totally agree that we need to act out of
love always if we have the strength to do so. One on one interaction
involves the meeting of egos and that is far beyond group, religious
or nationalistic identities. Communication is essential and bridges
must be built. But just as there are Angels and then Archangels
and Archai, so there are individuals and then larger groups and
movements and then Spirits of the Time which can and do sweep
up individuals in their path. The trick I think, is to try to
perceive these larger entities, the good and the bad and the
truth about them.

What I was saying when I sounded so "fire
and brimstone" about making choices is that we, as individuals
may find ourselves in the not very distant future being called
upon to make choices that align us with one or more of these
larger entities. What I meant was that, even if we find ourselves
so caught up that we must succumb to their demands (microchips,
etc) that we need to still beable to
know inside who and what we are dealing with, not go into it
all blindly. We may not be able to resist physically, but we
can resist spiritually.

Many have been put into prison in the past
for telling the truth about a government or religion and have
remained free inside themselves. Yes, I believe the time is at
hand when many lightworkers and truth tellers will go there again,
possibly to suffer and die. But they, including perhaps us, must
stay free inside. We must never surrender the truth. We must
never give evil the name of good.

And yes, Frank, if you are reading this -
I mean the Waldorf movement, too. The seeds of human freedom
which it seeks to plant, nurture and guard in each human child
are very dangerous to the forces in the world today. As long
as it remains quiet and acquiescent to the state, it will be
allowed to continue. But the state, contrary to popular belief,
is not stupid. They know very well who we are. And now, the American
movement has made the unbelievably stupid mistake of getting
into bed with the public (state) school system! Let's just goahead and marry the executioner, why don't we??
PLANS is absolutely right about their position that Waldorf Education
has no place in the public school system and that Waldorf educators
should be honest and upfront with all parents about the Anthroposophy
and Christianity that lives within it. I am not concerned with
the forum that is running on it about whether or not RS was connected
with the Nazis, that's another subject entirely. But Waldorf
education in state schools has two things wrong with it - Waldorf
teachers are inherently limited in what they can say and do,
even though they may have more freedom in the classroom than
other public school teachers and Waldorf education has been put
under the gaze of the power system at large. It's not that what
we do in a Waldorf classroom is or should be secret - far from
it. But it should be done intotal freedom
and independence from any other controlling factor. And only
those parents and families who understand it honestly and as
fully as possible should participate. Sometimes withholding truth
can be as bad as a direct lie. That's what I meant, Frank.

I have a manuscript which I will either type
or try to scan that addresses the revolutionary aspect of Waldorf
Education. I intend to send it to you in entirety. In the meantime,
I will say that the bit about the Threefold Social Order being
on the table at Versailles was told to me and six other teacher
trainees in 1977-78 by Rene Querido. If it's not true, I want
to know why he told us. The manuscript that I am working on supports
it, but does not state it exactly. I will keep researching. If
you can, please tell me why you said that it never happened.

One more thing about public education, and
that is money. I think many people only consider it as one little
neighborhood school with well intentioned people doing the best
they can for a city's children. That is true, of course, but
there is much more to it. Public education means lots and lots
of money for those in power. You think there's not enough money
for schools today? Children are hard pressed to have the essentials?
Last year, I think, here in Miami, the head of the school board
was fired for corruption and walked away with a $2,000,000.00+
severance package!!! And in the States, many if not all states
run a lottery that pulls in billions and billions. Here in Florida
it was packaged to the public as a means expressly to help improve
the schools. Promises were made before the legislation was passed
promising that it would be devoted to public education in addition
to tax funding and not instead. Well, tax money for education
has been reduced and lottery money used instead. But there is
still no evidence of money being used in the quantities currently
generated by the lottery. I have never seen any accounting of
where that money goes. I would like to see it on a yearly basis,
with a dollar by dollar breakdown. In fact, I'm going to see
if I can find it on the Net. Florida has a lousy report card.
40 out of 50 ain't bad, I guess - but where does the money go??????????????

States Ranked: Smartest to Dumbest
The smartest state in the union is Massachusetts.
The dumbest, for the second consecutive year, is New Mexico.
These are the findings of the Education State Rankings, a survey
by Morgan Quitno Press of the public school systems in all 50
states. States were graded on a variety of factors based on how
they compare to the national average. These included such positive
attributes as per-pupil expenditures, public high school graduation
rates, average class size, student reading and math proficiency,
and pupil-teacher ratios. States received negative points for
high drop-out rates and physical violence.

In the Nag Hammadi Library there is a book
called Mary. You shall find it there. As well it is quite interesting
to read Philip and the Voice of Thunder.

Also The Gospel of Thomas, verse 114: Simon
Peter said to them, "Make Mary (Magdalene) leave us, for
females don't deserve life." Jesus said, "Look, I will
guide her to make her male, so that she too can become a living
spirit resembling you males. For every femaile who makes herself
male will enter the kingdom of heaven."

But don't worry too much, the meaning is ambiguous
and most unclear, to say the least. It may have to do with being
androgynous, or some kind of gnostic code
Frank

Whoa, something good to chew on there! I have
that somewhere on my shelves, I think. Maybe I can find it on
the Net. Can't reconcile it with other texts, though.

Did you see my bit on public education? Still
working on it for you, though.

: ) Christine

By the way, the company I work for here in
Miami has a branch in Buenos Aires. Real belly of the beast stuff!
Won't say what just now. I am still trying to figure it out.
I have only been there 2 months.

"Look, I will guide her to make her male,
so that she too can become a living spirit resembling you males.
For every femaile who makes herself male will enter the kingdom
of heaven."

Just a stab in the dark here but this may be a reference to a
possible transfiguration of the etheric body of Mary Magdalene.
That is, her etheric body is male and that Christ heightens its
awareness such that she was then to become the first person to
perceive the Risen Etheric Christ.

Where is this quote from? I hope its not the
same one from the Nag Hammadi book of Mary. I am wondering if
anyone knows if this book found of Mary is different than the
one found in the late 1800s? I just read there was a book of
Mary found during that time period. Don't know the specifices
though or the validity of such a thing.

The Sufi women as well were called male but
that was in reference to Master.

I still don't understand the etheric things
so much. I can't seem to really really rap my mind around it.

Peace,
Dottie

--- Richard Distasi wrote:

"Look, I will guide her to make her
male, so that she too can become a living spirit resembling you
males. For every femaile who makes herself male will enter the
kingdom of heaven."

The quote that I posted of which you ask was posted by Frank
Thomas Smith in an earlier message. That one sentence really
got my attention. Here is what Frank posted:

Also The Gospel of Thomas,
verse 114: Simon Peter said to them, "Make Mary (Magdalene)
leave us, for females don't deserve life." Jesus said, "Look,
I will guide her to make her male, so that she too can become
a living spirit resembling you males. For every femaile who makes
herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven."

And yes, Frank, if you are reading this
- I mean the Waldorf movement, too. The seeds of human freedom
which it seeks to plant, nurture and guard in each human child
are very dangerous to the forces in the world today. As long
as it remains quiet and acquiescent to the state, it will be
allowed to continue. But the state, contrary to popular belief,
is not stupid. They know very well who we are. And now, the American
movement has made the unbelievably stupid mistake of getting
into bed with the public (state) school system! Let's just go
ahead and marry the executioner, why don't we?? PLANS is absolutely
right about their position that Waldorf Education has no place
in the public school system and that Waldorf educators should
be honest and upfront with all parents about the Anthroposophy
and Christianity that lives within it. I am not concerned with
the forum that is running on it about whether or not RS was connected
with the Nazis, that's another subject entirely. But Waldorf
education in state schools has two things wrong with it - Waldorf
teachers are inherently limited in what they can say and do,
even though they may have more freedom in the classroom than
other public school teachers and Waldorf education has been put
under the gaze of the power system at large. It's not that what
we do in a Waldorf classroom is or should be secret - far from
it. But it should be done in total freedom and independence from
any other controlling factor. And only those parents and families
who understand it honestly and as fully as possible should participate.
Sometimes withholding truth can be as bad as a direct lie. That's
what I meant, Frank.

Okay, Christine, I thought you meant that
Waldorf schools hide what anthroposophy really is, in respect
ot reincanation, the spirit, religiosity, the Nazi accusation,
etc. As far as the relation of schools (Waldorf and others) to
the state, I agree with you. In my experience, most W-teachers
haven't the vaguest idea of what the Threefold concept entails:
autonomous schools, free from state control. And many of those
few who do realize it are afraid to mention it. When the Sra.
Inspectora comes they fall all over themselves kissing her ass.
The one course I still teach in the teachers training school
in Buenos Aires is called Ecologia social, for want of a better
name, I guess. It's 50% threefold society and 50% organzation
development and group dynamics. In the first part I try to hammer
into their young heads that W-schools should be models of state-free
schools. Much nodding of heads, even applause, though I suspect
they forget it once in teaching activity. Anecdote: A few months
ago a new inspector came to our little school here in the wilderness,
very nice woman, most enthusistic about what she saw. I told
her we're thinking of withdrawing our request for state approval,
because we're not able to comply with the stupid burocratic requirements
and their costs. She agreed with our criticism, but said it would
be a mistake to break off because the parents, espedcially new
ones, woudn't understand that. Also, after the 6th grade (end
of primary school here) the kids would still have to take a state
exam to enter high school. (Two good arguments which we were
well aware of.) She also said she would do all possible to obtain
approval. Fine, we went along, but nothing has changed because
not even she can shake the bureaucracy. Now we are thinking of
changing to a cooperative, with the teachers as members, not
employees, and kiss the Ministerio de Educacion goodbye. But
the teachers themselves are afraid of this.
I have a manuscript which I will either type or try to scan that
addresses the revolutionary aspect of Waldorf Education. I intend
to send it to you in entirety. In the meantime, I will say that
the bit about the Threefold Social Order being on the table at
Versailles was told to me and six other teacher trainees in 1977-78
by Rene Querido. If it's not true, I want to know why he told
us. The manuscript that I am working on supports it, but does
not state it exactly. I will keep researching. If you can, please
tell me why you said that it never happened.

Steiner spoke with various high ranking German
politicians, and wrote memorandums, trying to convince them that
Germany offer the threefold society as a post-war (I) alternative
at peace negotiations. Although some seemed well disposed to
the idea, nothing happened and it never reached Versailles. (Lindenberg
- "Rudolf Steiner-Eine Biographie" and elsewhere).
Why Querido may have said something different, I don't know.

I found the quote I was looking for. Well
at least one of them. I will share it once I have had my morning
coffee. The point for me is that Magdalene said Christ would
make THEM all males. Not just her. While reading Genesis by Steiner
I found it to mean 'rayers of the Sun'/God. I will find that
reference as well but it goes along the idea that in the beginning
there was a raying out and a raying in of sorts within a certain
boundary(not boundary but I guess I have the idea of egg when
I see this so it does seem to have some kind of closed surrounding
in a way.

I don't think it has anything to do with males
in the sense of male as in male/man versus female/woman on a
physical level. However I can not tell if maybe Rick is onto
something because I do not understand the etheric real well.
(no matter how many times it has been explained to me). I understand
it in the manner of a part of my existance and supposedly in
the end when I make the transition it shall seperate. But exactly
what it holds I am unsure other than it is more closely united
with the body than before. And that I can see.

The Gospel of Mary is only four pages or so
long. This quote is when the brothers have become bereaved with
the departure of Christ. This one doesn't state it in the 'make
us all males' although it is similar. I couldn't find the exact
quote I was looking for last night.

Gospel of Mary: How shall we go to the Gentiles
and preach the gospel of the kingdom of the Son of Man? If they
did not spare him how will they spare us? Then Mary stood up
greeted them all and said to her brethren, "Do not weep
and do not grieve nor be irresolute, for his grace will be entirely
with you and will protect you. But rather let us praise his greatness,
for he has prepared us and made us into men." When Mary
said this, she turned their hearts to the Good, and they began
to discuss the words of the Savior.

Peter said to Mary, "Sister, we know
that the Savior loved you more than the rest of the women. Tell
us the words which you remember - which you know but we do not
nore have we heard them. Mary answered and said "What is
hidden from you I will proclaim to you."

Gsopel of Phillip:

There were three who always walked with the
Lord. Mary his mother and her sister and Magdalene, the one who
was called his companion. His sister and his mother, and his
companiion were each a Mary.

AND HERE IS SOMETHING INTERESTING THAT FOLLOWS.
(MY CAPS:)

"The Father and the Son are single names.
the Holy Spirit is a double name. For they are everywhere: they
are above, they are below; they are in the concealed, they are
revealed. The Holy Spirit is revealed: it is below. It is in
the concealed: it is above.

You made a comment about Magdalene and another
melted but you can not show it yet. I think it might be found
in this above.

It is clear, very clear in the Nag Hammadi
that Magdalene is the most loved of Christ Jesus. Philip states
it, Thomas states it, Mary states it and there are others but
my eyes tired of looking for them last night. This is a huge
book. And it is in many pieces as is my bible. I am even missing
the first three pages of Genesis due to it falling a part in
my hands:)

Also in Philip:

As for Wisdom, who is called barren, she is
the mother of the angels. And the companion of the Savior (is)
Mary Magdalene. But Christ loved her more than all the disciples
and used to kiss her ofter on her mouth. The rest of the disciples
were offended by it and expressed disapproval. They said to him,
" Why do you love her more than all of us? The Savior answered
and said to them, "Why do I not love you like her? When
a blind man and one who sees, are both in darkness, they are
no different from one another. When the light comes the he who
sees will see the light, and he who is blind will remain in darkness.

The Lord said "Blessed is he who is before
he came into being. For he who is, h as been and shall be.

Christine, for me I have always read the bible
for what was just before a passage, that rang a bell, and also
that which is read after. For some reason I had not thought to
read the Nag in the same manner. But today while writing this
I found my self realizing what Christ is really saying in regards
to the companion. I am thinking that the word consort and companion,
which is usually used to explain the relationship of Christ to
Sophia in the Nag, have the same meaning? Do you interpret them
one and the same?

Did you know that the technical translation
of Kingdom within is actually Queendom within in the original
Aramaic language that Jesus spoke; Malduka. For me its like my
main man was walking around calling on all to find the Queendom
within:)

I am wondering if Frank or Rick might be able
to point to a book within the Nag of a conversation with Mary
begging the Lord to be patient with her many questions, and the
men, probably my friend Peter, complaining that she is taking
up too much time because they can't seem to get a question in
edgewise? It is in one of these that Mary makes the statement
of making us all males.

I am finding it interesting that they called
Salt, Sophia. It makes me think on my question of the story about
?(can't remember her name at the moment) turning to a pillar
of Salt. It looks like she lost out in living yet she had no
part of the fornication that took place between father and daughters.

Interesting for me for I found seven women
while looking for pillars in an art piece that called to mind
Pillars of Faith.

Happy Sunday,

dottie

Christine wrote:

Please tell me WHERE she says that!!! Is
it in the BIBLE?? If so, Please give me the chapter and verse
- I really want to see it for myself. Doesn't ring a bell at
all. In fact, I don't recall any quotes of her at all except
when she meets The Risen Christ and asks him where he put her
teacher (rabbi).

This is really, really important to me, so please find me that
quote. Thank you!

Search Result
The (Second) Apocalypse of James -- The Nag Hammadi Library
The (Second) Apocalypse of James, from The Nag Hammadi Library.
This site includes the entire Nag Hammadi Library, as well as
a large collection of other primary Gnostic scriptures and documents.
relative of his. He said, "Hasten! Come with Mary, your
wife, and your relatives
The Gospel of Philip -- The Nag Hammadi Library

The Gospel of Philip, from The Nag Hammadi
Library. This site includes the entire Nag Hammadi Library, as
well as a large collection of other primary Gnostic scriptures
and documents.

********************

Some said, "Mary conceived by the Holy
Spirit." They are in error. They do not know what they are
saying. When did a woman ever conceive by a woman? Mary is the

**************************

There were three who always walked with the
Lord: Mary, his mother, and her sister, and companion were each
a Mary.

angels. And the companion of the [...] Mary
Magdalene. [...] loved her more than all the
The Sophia of Jesus Christ -- The Nag Hammadi Library
The Sophia of Jesus Christ, from The Nag Hammadi Library. This
site includes the entire Nag Hammadi Library, as well as a large
collection of other primary Gnostic scriptures and documents.
Mary said to him: "Lord, then how will we know that?"

Mary said to him: "Holy Lord, where did
your disciples come from, and where are

The Gospel of Thomas Collection -- Translations
and Resources
The Gospel of Thomas in multiple translations, along with a vast
collection of material about the Thomas tradition. This site
includes the entire Hammadi Library, as well as a large collection
of other primary Gnostic scriptures and documents.
21. Mary said to Jesus, "What are your disciples like?"

114. Simon Peter said to them, "Make
Mary leave us, for females don't deserve Gospel of Thomas (Lambdin
Translation) -- The Nag Hammadi Library The Gospel of Thomas
in multiple translations, along with a vast collection of material
about the Thomas tradition. This site includes the entire Hammadi
Library, as well as a large collection of other primary Gnostic
scriptures and documents.
(21) Mary said to Jesus, "Whom are your disciples like?"

(114) Simon Peter said to him, "Let Mary
leave us, for women are not worthy of

The Dialogue of the Savior -- The Nag Hammadi
Library
The Dialogue of the Savior, from The Nag Hammadi Library. This
site includes the entire Nag Hammadi Library, as well as a large
collection of other primary Gnostic scriptures and documents.
Mary said, "Lord, behold! Whence do I bear the body while
I weep, and whence while

Mary hailed her brethren, saying, "Where
are you going to put these things about

Then he [...] Judas and Matthew and Mary [...]
the edge of heaven and earth.
And when Mary said, "[...] see evil [...] them from the
first [...] each other.

Mary said, "Thus with respect to 'the
wickedness of each day,' and 'the laborer is

Mary said, "Tell me, Lord, why I have
come to this place to profit or to Mary said to him, "Lord,
is there then a place which is [...] or lacking truth?"
Mary said, "Lord, you are fearful and wonderful, and [...]
those who do not know

Mary said, "I want to understand all
things, just as they are!"
Mary said, "Everything established thus is seen."

Mary said, "There is but one saying I
will speak to the Lord concerning the

Mary said, "Of what sort is that mustard
seed? Is it something from heaven or is Mary said, "They
will never be obliterated."
Mary said to the Lord, "When the works [...] which dissolve
a work."

Introduction to the Nag Hammadi Library through
James and through Mary Magdalene [who the Gnostics revered as
consort to Jesus]. disciple had been a woman, Mary Magdalene,
his consort. The Gospel of Philip "...the companion of the
Savior is Mary Magdalene. But Christ loved her more than

The Testimony of Truth -- The Nag Hammadi
Library
The Testimony of Truth, from The Nag Hammadi Library. This site
includes the entire Nag Hammadi Library, as well as a large collection
of other primary Gnostic scriptures and documents.
the world through a virgin, Mary. What is (the meaning of) this
mystery? John was begotten
Gospel of Thomas - Patterson & Robinson Translation -- Nag
Hammadi Library
The Gospel of Thomas in multiple translations, along with a vast
collection of material about the Thomas tradition. This site
includes the entire Hammadi Library, as well as a large collection
of other primary Gnostic scriptures and documents.
(1) Mary said to Jesus: "Whom are your disciples like?"
(1) Simon Peter said to them: "Let Mary go away from us,
for women are not worthy of

I would like to know if you could slow down
just a second and look at some of the questions I have for you?

I have been following this for three years
and finally found someone who speaks my language regarding Magdalene.
There is much more of her to be found regarding the mystery of
ChristSophia.

Do you have time to look at some of the questions?
I thought I moved fast, whew:) Its funny what inspiration will
do 'ey?

So, do you recall how you came to this? Where
did your inspiration of the Holy Spirit as feminine originate?
What books have you read that have led you to this? Have you
thought about Magdalene as the inspirant for the Fourth Gospel
and that of The Voice of Thunder? Has it ever occurred to you
that Christ initiated Magdlaene and not a man called Lazarus?
Do you see her at the table before Christ sacrificed? Do you
see her with Christ at the end of John? Do you see Judas as forgiven
symbolically through the acceptance of Paul? Where are your inspirations
regarding Mary through the house?

Had Dr. Steiner inspired you to the Mary mystery?
If so, what books?

Some of the questions I have asked may not
seem credible or whatever, however there are a few things I am
working on and they are not clear to me yet. But I am very interested
in the Mary questions?

Could you make some time for these? What did
you think of the passage directly following the 'men' remark
in Phillip? Do you intuit anything from that?

What age were you when you started to really
click with the Mary mystery?

I know you have a lot on your plate. If you
would take the time I would especially be grateful.

I'm going to paste all this on a word document,
then hit the books for answers. The two Jesus children, along
with the 2 Josephs & 2 Marys were what got me really excited
in the first place (1976?) Lecture by Rene Querido (in person
- Spring Valley NY Christmas conference) I liked all the cosmic
stuff, but after having a bout with "born again" Christianity
a few years prior (I graduated HS in 1973). I didn't want to
hear anything about Jesus. Then that lecture - WOW!

I still think it is the most REVOLUTIONARY
concept in all of Anthrop, at least in the sense of Christology.
It is such an open secret - and a terrific way to get Jehovah's
Witnesses off your doorstep for good! ; )

Well, the 2 Marys were pretty obvious after
that and Steiner's "Gospel of St. Luke" has the most
beautiful illumination in my opinion. But Steiner talks about
the 3 soul forces - especially in the Mystery Dramas, which were
pretty hot in Spring Valley when I was there at the time. It
may have been in conversation with Hans & Ruth Pusch at lunch
(I used to clean their house for a while before Hans died). But
I guess I just needed Mary Magdalene personally. I felt that
she was the only spiritual being I knew of at the time who could
understand me at the time, being the sex freak I was back then
(until fairly recently). She just fit in perfectly as the Maria
of the Will Soul Force. Eva Maria (the Virgin Mary in Luke) the
Maria of the Heart or Feeling Soul Force. Mother Mary (Maria
Sophia of the Head or Thinking Soul Force).

I went through a period of classes to become
a Catholic (around 1991 or 1992 I think). Oh my God, I can just
hear the Anthropops howling now!!! But I have had such very profound
experiences and reaction taking the Eucharist (which I did, even
though not a Catholic) and I thought I should join so that I
could do that with more honesty. I also was involved during that
time with a University catholic church with very progressive
thinking priests (and there areradicals
among them, you know - another topic altogether!). It was a very
good experience, but the whirlwind of my life took me away before
my joining. I also have had periods of using the rosary and with
very good inward effect. Somewherein
all of that, I really came clear about Her as the Divine Feminine
of the Godhead. She is the Matrix, the Bearer, the Comforter.
Christ said that He would send the Comforter and He has. I have
been to Conyers, GA, and even thoughthere
was a spooky element that wasn't good (totally my own perception)
nevertheless SHE was there simply because all the people were
there to reach up to HER. I could feel Her Presence, but not
necessarily from Nancy What's Her Name. 'Nother subject.

Then there is the whole Apocalypse thing -
the woman clothed with the Sun, with the Stars around her head
and the moon under her feet. The patriarchal church wants us
to believe that that is an image of the "church" per
se, but I don't think so. It is the Goddess and they really couldn't
handle that!!

I relate Mary Magdalene with the Divine Whore
(oh, the howling!!!!) of the ancient mysteries. I believe that
when men (male bodies to be specific) incarnated after the fall,
they fell more deeply into matter than female bodies and during
the Babylon/ Chaldean, Sumerian, etc. times, the priestesses
were "whores" in the sense that men paid money to the
temple, then went into the temple and lay with a priestess. During
the sex act, she filled his soul with love and life force and
raised his vibration so that he could feel connected again with
the world of the stars. Don't ask me where this comes from, my
own vision I guess, but probably lots of different things I've
read over the years. But I did have a very real and very profound
clairvoyant perception of myself in Atlantis after I had made
love with someone who is a friend now (this was about seven years
ago) and I actually felt in Spirit what sex was like back then
- NOTHING could ever compare today with the unity of souls in
the star world!!!! Well, we can't go back again, but Oh boy,
was it amazing!!!

I think that Mary Magdalene was in a way the
last in the line of sacred whores. Her whole Ego from the past
and bodily experience during the Incarnation of Christ brought
this into line with the I AM. Through the Christ it was transformed
into the power to heal the Will Element of the female soul force.
Mind you, I am talking about Archetypes of Male & Female,
not whether an individual is a man or woman. We are all both.
Manifestations of Karma has some really funny passages about
this!! : )

Anyway, I'm going to get tied to the stake
for all of this, I'm sure, but it lives within me and I don't
have anyone in my life to share it with, so your asking is bound
to unlock the floodgates!

I will try to get some good sources for you.
I don't really know how much of RS you have already studied and
in what areas - there is so much to try to explore!! If you haven't
read "St. Luke", I highly recommend it!

Thanks so much for answering me so quickly:)
There is more that needs to be explored so hopefully the floodgates
will be opened.

I don't see Magdalene nor the other priestess
as 'whores'. I believe that is man made. And I do believe it
did disinegrate at some point but I do not feel she was a part
of that. I believe the Voice of Thunder speaks to that.

She came to me as well. And it completely
freaked me out. She came as me, and I physically batted her away.
I didn't understand and it left me in tears as to 'why me', who
am I to experience such a thing'. I have been searching ever
more so since that day. I usually get rushes I call the Burning
Bush :) in December and then again at Easter. This year it happened
also right on St. Johns Day. Didn't know it was his day until
I questioned what was happening. It was like a seven day period
of inspirations.

I have an amazing book that speaks to the
issue of 'holy whores'...and actually I had done some research,
little, about the word harlot, it actually was a reference to
a vagabond man. Had nothing to do with a woman. Anyway, I have
no issue with Magdalene being a prostitute if indeed she was,
however I don't find this to be true. The kissing on the mouth
also is the way knowledge/initiation was expressed from what
I can tell.

Its funny when you said she came to you. Its
interesting because you can really sense her. She's so readily
available to be experienced or maybe she is so ready to share
to those who are open to her. And you know its her. Its pretty
clear.

Good. I found it was the Fifth Gospel that
really put John the Baptist and Magdalene in perspective for
me and also the two Mary mothers. Although I must say that I
have a little theory about one of those mothers. Still kicking
it around though.

I have read quite a bit of Steiner. Maybe
forty or fifty or more books. Feel pretty connected to his spirit
although I am not your usual Steiner student. And that's an understatement.

Thanks, Christine

Dottie

p.s. btw Aminah was not the daughter of Muhammed,
she was his mother:)

It should be noted that Steiner has made known to us that when
the disciple who Jesus loved is mentioned the Gospel is pointing
to the fact that this is an initiate that Christ Jesus has initiated.
You may have already stressed this in your past posts so if I'm
repeating something already mentioned and noted by you please
excuse me.

The one passage that I find intriguing is that these passages
speak of making Mary Magdalene into a male. Does it mean that
she is taught certain things and initiated to a certain degree
that she is now respected as a Rabbi or Teacher?

I still think it is the most REVOLUTIONARY concept in all
of Anthrop, at least in the sense of Christology. It is such
an open secret - and a terrific way to get Jehovah's Witnesses
off your doorstep for good! ; )

I absolutely agree. I was stunned when I read this from Steiner
and it was this very revelation that put me over the top in uniting
myself with Anthroposophy. I thought that the fact that Christ
and Jesus were separate was radical enough; the two Jesus infants/children
was a shocking revelation for me.

As far as Jehovah's Witnesses: I had a couple of them come to
my door once. I confronted them with some of the material from
Anthroposophy and they were stupefied. They had no response.
One even wanted to get more information about Anthroposophy.

I had two separate experiences with the Jehovah's
Witnesses in California. It was really funny! You see, I don't
go around and knock on other people's doors and try to sell them
my belief system, but when they do that to me, I consider them
"fair game."

The first time was two older ladies. Their
question was "do you read the Bible?" LOL Well, I said
"Certainly" and invited them in for coffee. After about30 or 40 minutes of dissertation on the opening
of the Gospel of St. John, they were (literally) backing out
of my apartment, edging against the wall. "Come on Mabel."
One was saying. "I think we need to go now." And of
course, they never came back, which is good because they tend
to be like the hobos of the depression, who used to leave a mark
on the front door or gate of a house that had offered hospitality,
so the other hobos would go there.

But a couple of years later, a young man came
round (must have been a new recruit and didn't know the sign
for "Keep Away" yet). I did the same thing and he kept
saying "Come to a meeting and ask the Elders about that."
I am pretty sure I was pointing out the two geneaologies to him.
I told him "YOU go back to your meeting and ask the Elders
about that!"

After that, they distributed maps of the area
to all new recruits with my house clearly marked.

It should be noted that Steiner has made
known to us that when the disciple who Jesus loved is mentioned
the Gospel is pointing to the fact that this is an initiate that
Christ Jesus has initiated.

When you say initiate do you mean to convey
that the other diciples were not, other than this one whom Jesus
loved? If so I would have to say that it could be none other
than the Magdalene, and that the raising of Lazarus points to
that, not to mention all the comments in the Nag Hammadi referring
to Jesus loving her the most and kissing her on the mouth and
so forth. As I said earlier I have seen it referenced in many
places, not specifically pointing to Magdalene, that kissing
on the mouth is an initiatic reference. The book I am reading
on the Sufis speaks of this as well.

I don't think anyone can really say for 100
% that a thing is such and such. I can only say that in my personal
studies I can not find Lazarus as a being in the manner he is
discussed. I am open to it not having been Magdalene if this
is the truth.

I am wondering if you are aware of any other
initiatic experience to the level of the 'beloved' in the bible?
Maybe it has escaped me and there is another way of looking at
this Lazarus thing. When I trail the Marys I find they are indeed
'one whom God helped' in the OT as well: the sister of Moses
and the woman with Elija given the rod. Its funny because it
is noted by a few scholars that Muhammed made a mistake by naming
the Virgin Mary as the sister of Moses. They say he confused
his Marys. I say he knew 'exactly' what he was saying its just
there wasn't anyone of understanding who was enlightened enough
to see what he was saying.

Rick

You may have already stressed this in your
past posts so if I'm repeating something already mentioned and
noted by you please excuse me.

Dottie

No, I hadn't stressed it although I did mention
it. This tends to get me in a bit of hot water with Christoligists.
But I didn't pull this out of thin air. It came from within.
I think when I saw your words this morning it made me wonder,
because I am always looking for a way to be wrong about my insights,
if I am onto something with Lazarus or if there is another initiative
scene that could possibly

speak to the Magdalene mystery as the 'beloved'.

Rick

The one passage that I find intriguing
is that these passages speak of making Mary Magdalene into a
male. Does it mean that she is taught certain things and initiated
to a certain degree that she is now respected as a Rabbi or Teacher?

Dottie

I think it is more than that. However, she
is now called, I can't remember since when, maybe the fifties,
The Apostle to The Apostles by the Catholic Church: Teacher to
the Teachers. I believe Steiners Genesis speaks to the 'male'
thing. I believe it may be the 'raying' out of the ...well I
will find it in the book today. I believe it is the persons who
are able to radiate love, Christ/Sun like, from within to without
like the suns rays from above. And I believe it is said this
happened during the time when we were coming into being. I believe
it is what happened when the ancient sages of the day called
out to the Cosmos and they heard a resounding 'yes'(my belief)returning:
I believe that is the male aspect and the humans are the female
aspect as the recievers. Eunichs have made themselves recievers
of the 'word' so that they can become male??

I believe she is called Apostle to the Apostles
for many reasons and mostly because she was able to recognize
Jesus as the Christ when resssurected. She was the only one.
Which brings up an interesting point of recognizing Jesus 'as'
the Christ. A man was truly ressurected as one in Christ. And
this is why I believe she is the inspirant for the Fourth Gospel
and also the reason I see her as representing the Sophia, daughter
voice of God.

In Genesis lecture 2 we find Dr. Steiner discussing
Hashamayim and Ha'aretz. " You know that in the Bible, after
the words I endeavored to sketch for you yesterday, there comes
a description of one of the complexes arising our of the creative
thinking of the gods. I told you that we have to picture that,
as if out of cosmic memory, two comlexes arose. One was a complex
which may be compared to the nature of thoughts which can arise
in us, the other to our desire or will nature. The one complex
contains all that drives towards outer manifestation, tends as
it were to proclaim its force-hashamayim. The other complex-ha'aretz-consists
of an inner activity filled with desire. Then we are told of
certain qualities of this inwardly active, enlivening element,
and these are indicated in the Bible with the sounds which portray
their character. We are told that this inwardly active element
was in a condition described as tohu wa'bohu- without form and
void.To understand what is meant by tohu wa' bohu we must paint
a picture of it; and we shall only succeed in this if out of
our spiritual scientific knowledge we call to mind what it was
that, after its passage through the Saturn, Sun and Moon stages,
re-emerged and surged through space as our earth existence, as
our planet earth."

...

So, we have to imagine the elements of warmth,
air and water permeating and interpenetrating each other, and
within them a raying out as from a centre in all directions,
and this raying out would be there if we only heard the first
part of the sound structure, tohu. What does the second part
of the phrase signify? It expresses the very opposite of what
I have just described. Bet, the sound which resemebles our B,
had the character of calling forth our imagination the picture
of an enormous sphere, a hollow sphere, with yourself inside
it, and rays proceeding from every point inside this sphere towards
the center. Thus you imagine a point in space with forces streaming
out in all directions, and this is tohu; then these forces are
arrested as it were by an outer spherical enclosure and turned
back on themselves from every direction of space, and this is
bohu."

So, this is what I mean by the raying in and
out and the male and female aspect. Which also includes the planet
earth as signified by the word ha'aretz and the Sun signified
as the word hashamayim. Yin & Yang

Dottie

Rick

The one passage that I find intriguing
is that these passages speak of making Mary Magdalene into a
male. Does it mean that she is taught certain things and initiated
to a certain degree that she is now respected as a Rabbi or Teacher?

Steiner does make mention that Christ Jesus did bring the Apostles
along by stages through the different levels of Initiation so
that they too were Initiates. The twelve attained the level of
Imagination when the Gospels relate the scene of the walking
on water. As time went on only three were able to attain Inspiration
on Mount Tabor; the Transfiguration. And even here it begins
to become evident that these three, Peter along with James and
John ben Zebedee, were not able to fully remain conscious through
this Initiation. Finally, these three were to pass through the
Initiation of Intuition and it is here that they fail completely.
They cannot retain consciousness. They are then unable to pass
through the Event of Golgotha in spirit-consciousness with Christ:
not just physically present at the Cross but rather they were
to become one spiritually with Christ (in Intuition with Christ)
throughout the whole event of Golgotha. They could not. Days
prior to this Christ had initiated Lazarus with the intent that
if His chosen Apostles could not stay with Him there would be
one who could and would become the bearer of the astral body
of Christ Jesus which would then become the source of the Gospel
of John. This was Lazarus as Steiner had pointed out in his lectures
on the Gospel of John in Hamburg, 1908. Mary Magdalene was certainly
another Initiate of Christ. It was she who experienced the Risen
Christ and told it to the others. I don't have anything from
Steiner that addresses the level of initiation that she had achieved
though the Gnostic Gospels mention her as being more advanced
than the Apostles themselves. It should be noted that though
Lazarus became John in name he was not John who accompanied Christ
to Mt. Tabor nor was he John who slept while Christ passed through
His agony in the Garden of Gethsemane. Lazarus and Mary Magdalene
were brother and sister along with Martha; all three of whom
were mentioned as being "loved" by Christ.

You quoted some very weighty material from Steiner's lectures
on Genesis and I can appreciate the raying out and steaming back
again as macrocosmic male and female principles of creation.
What caught my attention was the following from Steiner:

"Thus you imagine a point
in space with forces streaming out in all directions, and this
is tohu; then these forces are arrested as it were by an outer
spherical enclosure and turned back on themselves from every
direction of space, and this is bohu."

". . .these forces are arrested . . .and
turned back on themselves." Arrested by whom or what is
my question. In a lecture by Steiner titled, "Man in the
Light of Occultism, Theosophy and Philosophy", he speaks
of Twelve World Initiators during the Sun Period who enveloped
this particular cosmic sphere which now makes up our present
solar system. The space that they occupied is now the space that
we recognize as the twelve zodiacal constellations. They poured
their World-Word into this sphere which was then taken up by
Christ who at that time was a microcosmic planetary Being. Somehow,
then, their forces must still be at work even if they no longer
are present in these spheres, and I could not find anything from
Steiner on this regard, or their forces may have been taken up
by the hierarchies (Seraphim perhaps) where the streaming out
of the forces of the Elohim and Spirits of Form reach their limit
of expansion and are then turned back upon themselves. It is
this region that is filled with the Being of Christ during the
exhaling of His Being during the spring and summer, gathers the
cosmic wisdom of the hierarchies and is brought back to us as
it is inhaled again by the earth at this time of the year.

"Thus you imagine
a point in space with forces streaming out in all directions,
and this is tohu; then these forces are arrested as it were by
an outer spherical enclosure and turned back on themselves from
every direction of space, and this is bohu."

Rick on Steiner:

". . .these forces are arrested .
. .and turned back on themselves." Arrested by whom or what
is my question.

Hi Rick,

Well it seems it is the elohim are are the
arrestees when we re-emerge so it seems from Saturn, Sun and
Moon stages.

Genesis Lecture 2

"You know that in the Bible, after the
words I endeavoured to sketch for you yesterday, there comes
a description of one of the complexes arising out of the creative
thinking of the gods. ( I take this to mean the elohim.)

It almost seem like he is explaining the fall
of Man in a sense in what I shall write below:

"I pointed out yesterday that what we
call the solid conditions, namely that which offers resistance
to our sense, did not exist during the Saturn, Sun and Moon stages;
all that existed then were the elements of fire or warmth, gas
or air, and water. Basically it was not until the planet earth
stage emerged that the solid element was added to the previous
elemental conditions. So that when the moment occurred that we
described yesterday, of the sun beginning to split off from the
earth, this was the moment when the elements of warmth, air and
water began to mutually interpenetrate.

Wow....that is pretty amazing when looking
at the beginning of the Earth stage. Wow. Makes me contemplate
Adam & Eve and what each individual relationship was to the
symbols of this re-emergence. And then the snake???? anyway,

He goes onto say:

" However, we emphasized yesterday that
these elohim came over to earth evolution at the stage to which
they had evolved during the Saturn, Sun and Moon evolutions.
So they were in a similar situation to when you wake up and bring
groups of thoughts to mind. You can contemplate these thoughts
in a kind of soul/spiritual way, you can tell what they are like.
You can say: 'When I wake up in the morning and recall what was
previously in my mind and what I am now calling up, I can describe
it'. It was approximately the same for the elohim when they said
to themselves: 'let us now think creatively about what arises
in our souls when we recall all that took place during the old
Saturn, Sun and Moon evolutions. Let us see what it looks like
when we remember it.' What it looked like was tohu wa' bohu,
and could be expressed be the picture I gave you of rays streaming
out from a centre into space and back again in such a way that
the elements interacted in these rays of force. Thus the elohim
could say, roughly: 'This is what things look like after we have
brought them to this point. This is how they re-emerge.

I need to get this book you speak of below.
Is that the name of it in its current form? That's pretty amazing
information. It feels like it is all coming together doesn't
it?

My Best,
Dottie

Rick wrote:

In a lecture by Steiner titled, "Man
in the Light of Occultism, Theosophy and Philosophy", he
speaks of Twelve World Initiators during the Sun Period who enveloped
this particular cosmic sphere which now makes up our present
solar system. The space that they occupied is now the space that
we recognize as the twelve zodiacal constellations. They poured
their World-Word into this sphere which was then taken up by
Christ who at that time was a microcosmic planetary Being. Somehow,
then, their forces must still be at work even if they no longer
are present in these spheres, and I could not find anything from
Steiner on this regard, or their forces may have been taken up
by the hierarchies (Seraphim perhaps) where the streaming out
of the forces of the Elohim and Spirits of Form reach their limit
of expansion and are then turned back upon themselves. It is
this region that is filled with the Being of Christ during the
exhaling of His Being during the spring and summer, gathers the
cosmic wisdom of the hierarchies and is brought back to us as
it is inhaled again by the earth at this time of the year.

Home from work now and my boss let me scan
that lecture I was telling you about. But you know text scans,
it's going to take a lot of work, still.

In the meantime, Dottie, I started this last
night and its not finished in terms of references, etc.. But
I want to add it to the discussion between you and Rick.

*********
Dottie said this (still don't have this snip thing down)

I don't think anyone can really say for 100
% that a thing is such and such. I can only say that in my personal
studies I can not find Lazarus as a being in the manner he is
discussed. I am open to it not having been Magdalene if this
is the truth.

***********
This is what I am still working on:

Dottie: Have you thought about Magdalene as
the inspirant for the Fourth Gospel and that of The Voice of
Thunder?

Dottie: Has it ever occurred to you that Christ
initiated Magdlaene and not a man called Lazarus?

Christine: To my understanding, and I will
have to look up references in RS, Lazarus was Mary Magdalene
and Martha's brother. All three were very close to Jesus. I am
not sure about family/ karmic connections. Will have to check.
(By the way - Martha is an interesting Feminine archetype, too).
So Mary Magdalene was totally involved in the initiation of her
brother, Lazarus. But I think they were definitely separate Egos.
Perhaps she was the female entity supporting him in his initiation.
In fact, I am getting a picture of the Male/Female unity in all
of the initiations and revelations!!!

Now, as I understand it, when Christ raised
Lazarus, Lazarus incarnated the Ego of John the Baptist and was
thereafter Lazarus/ John who was to be known as John "the
one who Jesus loved". Rene pointed out to us several times
that John wrote the Revelation first (If I remember correctly)
and then the Gospel. He wrote the Gospel while living in a sort
of exile/ seclusion on the island (Isle?) of Patmos and he was
there with Mary, the Mother of God. Remember, on the cross Christ
said to that John and that Mary (already the embodiment spiritually
of all three) "Behold thy Mother" and "Behold
thy Son". Again, she "channeled" - and I use this
word very advisedly - not in the sense it is used today - she
"incarnated" "brought down" the Holy Spirit
into John so that he could write the most powerful, most esoteric
of all the Gospels. It was really something they did together
as Spiritual Beings.

So we have Mary/ Lazarus in the transformation
of the Will Initiation unto death - the first Christian Initiation.

And we have Mary/ John writing the Fourth
Gospel - the transformation of the Thought Initiation - the Christ
Initiation of Thought. So interesting that John was BEHEADED!!!

Interesting figure of Salome/ Herodias - the
full expression of the decadent whore mysteries (I kinda like
the word, actually!) Ever see the opera Salome? I did in Seattle
- really amazing!!)

I think, and this is just coming to me now,
I may be wrong - but I am searching for the Initiation of Feeling.
Somewhere it has to be involved with the EVA Maria - the Virgin
Mary - the tranformation of the Feeling Initiation. Where is
John/ Lazarus?? I keep "seeing" the Birth Mysteries
- John the Baptist leaping up in Elizabeth's womb. Maybe this
is the Mystery of the Ave Maria, the Rosary, the Luke/ Shepherd
story an initiation in the Feeling Soul. I have to mull that
over for a while. This initiation is the one most accessible
to the "common people" - the Virgin of Lourdes, of
Guadaloupe, etc. This is the Virgin that bears the Sacred Heart
and reaches the Heart of Mankind. (Of course all three Female
Deities are one, but this is the Heart Manifestation).

Have you read Kahlil Gibran's book, "Jesus,
The Son of Man" "His world and his deeds as told and
recorded by those who knew him"?

This is pure poetry, not to be taken as doctrine,
but it is SO beautiful!!!! The whole book is on that website.
I can only read it a little at a time, because I always start
crying!!! The passages "by" and about Mary Magdalene
are unbelievable. Totally heart level stuff!!!

John the beloved disciple in his old age

On Jesus the Word

YOU WOULD HAVE me speak of Jesus, but how
can I lure the passion-song of the world into a hollowed reed?
In every aspect of the day Jesus was aware of the Father. He
beheld Him in the clouds and in the shadows of the clouds that
pass over the earth. He saw the

Father's face reflected in the quiet pools,
and the faint print of His feet upon the sand; and He often closed
His eyes to gaze into the Holy Eyes.

The night spoke to Him with the voice of the
Father, and in solitude He heard the angel of the Lord calling
to Him.

And when He stilled Himself to sleep He heard
the whispering of the heavens in His dreams.

He was often happy with us, and He would call
us brothers.

Behold, He who was the first Word called us
brothers, though we were but syllables uttered yesterday.

You ask why I call Him the first Word.

Listen, and I will answer:

In the beginning God moved in space, and out
of His measureless stirring the earth was born and the seasons
thereof.

Then God moved again, and life streamed forth,
and the longing of life sought the height and the depth and would
have more of itself.

Then God spoke thus, and His words were man,
and man was a spirit begotten by God's Spirit.

And when God spoke thus, the Christ was His
first Word and that Word was perfect; and when Jesus of Nazareth
came to the world the first Word was utteredunto
us and the sound was made flesh and blood.

Jesus the Anointed was the first Word of God
uttered unto man, even as if an apple tree in an orchard should
bud and blossom a day before the other trees. And in God's orchard
that day was an aeon.

We are all sons and daughters of the Most
High, but the Anointed One was His first-born, who dwelt in the
body of Jesus of Nazareth, and He walked among us and we beheld
Him.

All this I say that you may understand not
only in the mind but rather in the spirit. The mind weighs and
measures but it is the spirit that reaches the heart of life
and embraces the secret; and the seed of the spirit is deathless.

The wind may blow and then cease, and the
sea shall swell and then weary, but the heart of life is a sphere
quiet and serene, and the star that shines therein is fixed for
evermore.

So Mary Magdalene was totally involved
in the initiation of her brother, Lazarus. But I think they were
definitely separate Egos.

Dottie

Not the way it comes to me. If you look for
Lazarus in the way you looked for Magdalene I do not believe
you will find him. I find nothing. And I have looked. If this
is true in regards to a Lazarus one with spiritual insight should
be able to access this being, I believe. I don't think one can.
Lazarus means 'one whom Allah helps' my work led me to find out
whom Allah helps and it is the Marys throughout. I think Magdalene
was completely involved with Jesus' initiation. And I believe
it is she who showed the way as being the forerunner after John
(forerunner)the Baptist was beheaded which I take as the intellect
surrendered to the Heart. After Johns death she did things that
foretold Jesus death in her actions; washing the feet at the
table as well as 'annointing' Jesus with oil for the burial.

ChristinePerhaps she was the female entity supporting him in his initiation.
In fact, I am getting a picture of the Male/Female unity in all
of the initiations and revelations!!!

Dottie

Well, at least it was so in that of Jesus
the Christ.

ChristineNow, as I understand it, when Christ raised Lazarus, Lazarus
incarnated the Ego of John the Baptist and was thereafter Lazarus/
John who was to be known as John "the one who Jesus loved".
Rene pointed out to us several times that John wrote the Revelation
first (If I remember correctly) and then the Gospel. He wrote
the Gospel while living in a sort of exile/ seclusion on the
island (Isle?) of Patmos and he was there with Mary, the Mother
of God.

Dottie
I believe it was Magdalene and Mother Mary that were
on that isle if it was so.

ChristineRemember, on the cross Christ said to that John and that Mary
(already the embodiment spiritually of all three) "Behold
thy Mother" and "Behold thy Son".

Dottie

John was not there. I believe it was a cosmic
call of the highest importance. Jesus would never have given
his mother to another disciple of male orient. She had other
sons. The women walked together. Mary was now male as well which
could explain a small piece of the mystery. In the Nag Hammadi
it is clear the boys who should have understood the mysteries
on the mount were unable to as Rick has highlighted in a previous
post. In the Gospel of Mary they do not believe her revelations
as well.

ChristineAgain, she "channeled" - and I use this word very
advisedly - not in the sense it is used today - she "incarnated"
"brought down" the Holy Spirit into John so that he
could write the most powerful, most esoteric of all the Gospels.
It was really something they did together as Spiritual Beings.

Dottie

Not that I can tell. Magdalene is the only
one who comprehended Christ Jesus on the level that was needed
to understand these mysteries of the heart. She is the only one
to have seen him and knew it was him.

ChristineSo we have Mary/ Lazarus in the transformation of the Will
Initiation unto death - the first Christian Initiation.

Dottie

Do you know the translation of Miriam, Maryam,?
It
means I am the sea...even unto Mir I Am.

ChristineInteresting figure of Salome/ Herodias - the full expression
of the decadent whore mysteries (I kinda like the word, actually!)
Ever see the opera Salome? I did in Seattle - really amazing!!)

Dottie

Salome / Peace, was there from the beginning
even at the birth. I don't believe this is a part of any whore
mystery or what have you. It is told that little Mary danced
on the steps of the Temple and people were amazed and swayed
that she was someone special. Dance is a very special form of
showing the level of initiation one has achieved from what I
understand. Even Jesus has danced the dance supposedly that brought
his disciples into a trance like state of manifestation. I think
this is what was going on. I believe Salome showed the gifts
of the spirit through that dance and the men were overwhelmed.
And it was the MOTHER who asked for the head.

Dear Christine,

I have to run, but I will think on the things
you have written regarding the various levels of initiation in
this post and another. These things take a little time for me
to comprehend on a mental level.