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Author
Topic: Next year in Europe! (Read 70638 times)

Amsterdam would be amazing! It's relatively cheap to fly there, it's cheaper to convert to the Euro than it is to the Pound, the city is beautiful, well laid out and there is a lot to do... With the Canadian dollar as high as it's ever been in my lifetime, now would be a great time to travel abroad.

Count me in for a European gathering. AMG's in the US are pretty much out of the question for me because of the expense of travelling there - not to mention the slight issue of the travel ban. Having a US and European gathering each year sounds like a good idea; at least we all get to attend one without having to travel too far.

Any major city's good for me; London, Madrid, Amsterdam, but did I hear a little voice suggest Gran Canaria??? Such wickedness! Great for the gay boys, but not much doing for the straight guys and gals!

Carl,Manchester, UK(who's off to the hedonistic island on Monday for 2 weeks! )

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

One question; What about the Grants Committee? Can we realistically expect to raise two lots of grant monies per year?

I am not familiar with how the grants are used but it could be done as a separate grant per location. Or all contributions are put in one pool everyone that wants to apply does so and the money is allocated for the member to use on whichever gathering he or she would attend.

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"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it." Nelson Mandela

Just my personal opinion this but because of the amount of people who wouldn't be able to attend if the gathering was in Europe and the weakness of the Dollar against Sterling and Euro at the moment I think the main gathering should be in North America again. I'd still definitely be interested in a Euro gathering but I think it should be a regional one with anyone else able to afford it come along as well.

This is an all volunteer organized function is that correct? Do any financial resources or in-kind contributions come from POZ or AidsMeds? If not, why couldn't there be 2 gatherings a year, the Euro AMG and the NA AMG. Each could be held approx 6 months apart. Members could attend one or both. I would think either location would involve different volunteers organizing and a grant committee could be organized for each.

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"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it." Nelson Mandela

While I think it would be nice to have an AMG in Europe, I don't think it should replace the one in the US. It's not funded by A-M, POZģ, or any other entity. What funds an AMG are 1) individuals paying their own way 2) members covering costs for another member and 3) donations from individuals that assist people to attend. There is no 'governing body' over the AMG's. I think, perhaps, somebody who attended the first AMG could give a bit more insight as to how it originated and how informal an AMG is. There's nothing keeping our European members from organizing an AMG to be held in Europe. In fact, it would be great. I seriously doubt if the 40+ members from the US would be able to attend. My suggestion would be to start a post inquiring who's interested in a European AMG. Take suggestions as to location. Vote on the location. Vote on a date. Find people who are willing to be your 'Dennis', Allan, Jan, Rocky, and many others. Set up a Grants Committee (if you want to go this route). In other words, have an AMG. I'm sure that some from over here will attend. If there's a Grants Committee, more will be able to attend. Basically, start planning an AMG to be held in Europe!

David (who'd love to go to the UK but doesn't see it happening anytime soon. Sponsors, anyone? )

While I think it would be nice to have an AMG in Europe, I don't think it should replace the one in the US. It's not funded by A-M, POZģ, or any other entity. What funds an AMG are 1) individuals paying their own way 2) members covering costs for another member and 3) donations from individuals that assist people to attend. There is no 'governing body' over the AMG's. I think, perhaps, somebody who attended the first AMG could give a bit more insight as to how it originated and how informal an AMG is. There's nothing keeping our European members from organizing an AMG to be held in Europe. In fact, it would be great. I seriously doubt if the 40+ members from the US would be able to attend. My suggestion would be to start a post inquiring who's interested in a European AMG. Take suggestions as to location. Vote on the location. Vote on a date. Find people who are willing to be your 'Dennis', Allan, Jan, Rocky, and many others. Set up a Grants Committee (if you want to go this route). In other words, have an AMG. I'm sure that some from over here will attend. If there's a Grants Committee, more will be able to attend. Basically, start planning an AMG to be held in Europe!

David (who'd love to go to the UK but doesn't see it happening anytime soon. Sponsors, anyone? )

I think that is pretty much the way to go. Then we would have double the opportunity to meet great folks from all over the world.

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"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it." Nelson Mandela

The survey will be open for the next 29 days and will give the coordinators an idea of the cost people are willing to spend, where they'd like to see AMG held, as well as where they are traveling from. Thus far everyone who has participated has stated they would attend an AMG in the America's despite the ban.

What I think would be extremely doable is a Europe AMG every two years. There are lots of dynamics that occur in the background prior to this event that makes an event of this magnitude a success. Perhaps a Europe AMG in 2009?

Let's not forget there are many destinations outside of North America and Europe. How about South America, the Caribbean, and I would still like to see an AMG held on a cruise.

I'm absolutely thrilled there is so much excitement being generated over next years gathering so soon!!

I tend to agree that while Europe is a great idea it would be prohibitively expensive for so many people and therefore should not replace a north american AMG. It could work, however, as an open invitation regional meet or perhaps as a one off every now and then, but not every second year.

Similarly, while I'd love for all of you to come to Aus or NZ both the cost and distance would be limiting factors and I would not recommend it. 15 hours from LA and 22 from the UK (add another 3 1/2 to get to NZ). I don't know how Jan does it, but I would not recommend the trip to anyone for a short visit. It is an absolutely torturous journey and it would really only be worth your while if you spent a significant amount of time here, but that will add to the expense.

The LA/Sydney/Auckland route is also one of the most expensive in the world due to a lack of competition - I think a return airfare from the US is in the order of $2,000 US.

I agree with David_NC in that anyone can plan an event anywhere at anytime! All you need is a Dennis!! It may be a problem finding someone who is as dedicated, driven, and cute as Dennis! So we need one of our European members who will rise to the occasion....I would vote for Amsterdam since it is very accessible which drives down cost.....if we had to pick a US city for 2008 I would vote for Chicago....lots to do in a beautiful city! Otherwise a cruise would be great as well....

Thanks Dennis for the survey....u just don't stop....that is also very attractive!!

Chicago: yes to that location too. Lived there for 5 years before moving to Ohio. Boystown is an easy-going, safe area. Well, relatively safe. Avoid any wee hours of the morning solo strolls anywhere in Chicago. Bars, Baths, Restaurants, Concerts and Nightlife enough for all. Did I mention very gay oriented Halsted St. Excellent public transport system--easy from O'Hare ("Keep Walking") to all points downtown.xxx,Mike

I'll continue to point out that unlike any of the EU countries, the USA still has a ban on HIV travellers entering the country, despite Bush's grandstanding photo-op last World AIDS day:http://www.gmhc.org/about/releases/061206.html

You *DO* realize how expensive Europe is right now don't you? The exchange rate is atrocious.Let's do Puerto Rico!!!

The Carribean would be great!

I back this up and can even suggest places to visit and hotels to stay for every budget. We have plenty in the San Juan (Capitol) Condado area, and Philly knows this. Only one gay hotel (Atlantic Beach) but I prefer places like Holiday Inn Express, Marriott Stelaris Hotel & Casino (expensive but great), Radisson Ambassador Plaza, Diamond Palace, Comfort Inn, etc. I'm a budget traveler most of the time. Hotels in Condado are all walking distance from each other and places to eat are everywhere. Sightseeing in Old San Juan is just a buses ride away for 25 cents if you hop on the public bus which stops close to every hotel. Nightlife is mostly in Old San Juan but most hotels in Condado have pubs and bars. For gay dancing Eros (old Crash) or Starz in Santurce (close to Condado). New places have come up but I've been to none. I rarely go to San Juan because I live on the West coast of the island. The bad thing is Hurricane season. The critical month is September being the worst on occasions but this year we haven't had a hurricane scare at all. Still, it would make a good gathering place but I do not think we have an AIDS Memorial here.

« Last Edit: September 23, 2007, 12:49:17 PM by Catman »

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Catman

Meow to the birdsMeow to the tree'sMeow to the endof this dreadful disease...

But for us in Europe there is the incertitude of entering the US... if we are lucky we could skip the controls for our meds but... who knows!!! with the law in the hands, we cannot enter, so it is a matter of good luck to pass inside...

And that's a pitty!!!! I would like to go!!!

Well, thinking back in Europe... maybe you should think about not the mainstream cities, but other places. Canary Islands (Spain), and Madeira Islands (Portugal) are not expensive places, with a mild climate all the year, magnificent landscapes and very good facilities.

Distance to the US is shorter due to these islands are in the Atlantic ocean, and are mainstream turistical centers, so flights shouldn't be too expensive.

Canaries, in addition, have a very openminded nighlife and are lots of gayfriendly, so gay and hetero colleagues could pass together a good time.

The Canaries have very good healthcare facilities, and a high standard of life with a very good quality transportation network. Landscapes: from pinewood forest and high mountains and volcanos, to black sand beaches, deserts and big modern cities.

I know there are direct flights from New York, Chicago and Miami to the main islands (Tenerife and Gran Canaria).

Maybe it is just a matter of checking for prices of hotels or complete travel packages... Could be a good alternative for any time of the year.

so far as where to go next year, barcelona was my personal suggestion as i think it has something for everyone - culture, food, dancing, beach, gaudi architecture - and is gay friendly, but seeing as so many people have voiced concerns about the expense of getting to europe it appears that we will have to make the trek across the atlantic once again

which brings me to something i feel very strongly about: i do not believe that we as a collection of positive individuals should be holding a gathering in a country which still prohibits our undocumented entry and reserves the right to prohibit our entry just for being poz.

some who are US citizens have been pretty blase about the fact and say that bush has said he will change it, but he HASNT done so yet. entry into the usa remains a FELONY for pozzies who have not applied in person at an embassy for a visa waiver and had a page of their passport stamped with a huge red 'HIV'. anyone found to be in contravention of the law is prohibited from EVER entering the usa again (ask cowandalehouse if you dont believe it actually happens).

which leaves us with 2 choices: dont come, and miss out on the support that an event such as amg brings, or lie (and commit a felony) and experience abject terror while going through immigration. really good for your stress levels. i would be interested to know whether emma (gemini) would have been so stressed as to cancel her trip to amg if it had been held in a poz-friendly country. i for one had nightmares for days before taking the trip. and it was evident from posts on the forums that some people did not feel safe to come because of the issue of trying to bring in meds, and so missed out on amg.

and for those who have not seen the i95 immigration visa waver form that all foreign entrants have to sign, the question about whether you carry a 'communicable disease' is just before the ones on being a nazi war criminal, having committed genocide, being a terrorist, being a convicted felon, etc etc. that's the company they put us in.

im not a conspiracy theorist but remember it only takes someone to discover that amg is happening - tip off, a former member of the forums with a vengeance, some crazy person with a thing against pozzies, undercover govt investigation to 'set an example' - and from these forums they have many of our names, flight times/dates, and the location in which we are staying.

it is one thing for us each as individuals to decide whether or not we wish to make a private trip to the states to visit a friend or family, but it is quite another to be coming on an organised and relatively public event. it makes us much more vulnerable. i for one was very conscious of that.

so i ask you my fellow pozzies, should this not be a consideration just as much as expense when deciding where to hold amg next year?

if europe is not felt to be a possibility due to expense, then i suggest canada or brazil. beautiful countries, but more importantly, dont forbid our entry or treat us any differently to other human beings.

i would be hugely disappointed if it is decided to hold the next amg in the united states, because it means that no-one actually cares what a risk we foreigners are taking just to come to amg. surely we go through enough just being poz, without having to go through any more just to get to a poz event?

thanks for reading, but a couple of last thoughts: the west coast trip from the uk nearly killed me so please, please can we have east coast/central next time? and please can we have it about the same time of year? i need a year to save up again!

"I'm not keen on the idea of the afterlife - not without knowing who else will be there and what the entertainment will be. Personally I'd rather just take a rest." Oscar Berger, PWA: Looking AIDS in the Face, 1996. RIP.

I agree completely. It just doesn't seem fair to simply pretend to ignore such a malicious piece of thinking that makes others look upon us as used merchandice. That's why we held the 1st 2 Gatherings in CAnada. (On the East Coast, mind you.) We wanted the West coast this year and Vancouver was in the running but SF won out.

I too really missed Emma. I have a piece of her artwork that I hold dear to my heart hanging outside my bedroom door. I was so looking forward to meeting her. To think she didn't come just because of some friggin policy just ticks me off. I don't blame Emma at all. I don't want that to happen again. I think we all relate to the levels of stress you felt.

Now last year, just before our Gathering in Montreal, there was the International Conference on HIV/AIDS in Toronto. This allowed Tim HOrn to stop and talk to us SAturday morning. Also, Andy came and stayed with us for a few days. Next year, the COnference is in Mexico City. Maybe we should have a INternational Gathering there?

I was hoping the issue of non-citizens HIV+ individuals entering the US had improved; I'd heard Bush's mentioning it was going to change, but I guess hearing him say something and actually seeing happen it are two different things. I can really understand that it's an issue for many that aren't citizens here. Although it may be a felony, I don't think that the majority of Americans would wish it to be so, but again, what we want and what's law are often not the same. Remember, it wasn't too long ago that it was illegal for two adult men or women to have sex. It still is in many states, but, surprisingly, the Supreme Court decided those laws were unenforcible (or whatever the actual term is). I really hate that this is a problem for anybody wishing to visit. It may be a 'communicable disease', but that's so '80-ish. Nobody's going to 'catch' it from us without specific activities taking place. Certainly we, as a country, have moved beyond that sort of thinking. I really hope that it will change soon. Until then, englishgirl, please make your concerns known when we actually start to suggest time and location for the next AMG. If we're lucky, it won't be an issue (maybe W will keep his word by then ). Take care.

Like David, I do remember hearing that the policy restricting entry for HIV+ non-citizens was being changed, or at least that it was no longer going to be enforced.

I did not realize that nothing has really changed and that visitors to the U.S. are still being humiliated by the questions on those entry forms and that they still have to pass through customs with the terrible stress of knowing that they can be sent back and denied entry permanently.

If I were a citizen of another country, I'm sure I would not be willing to undergo the stress of traveling to the U.S.

For Englishgirl, Melia, Chris (ManchesterUK), Hermie, Jan, and OzJen, I am deeply sorry for what you had to go through to participate in this year's AMG. I am also terribly sorry that Emma and possibly other non-U.S. citizens were deterred from coming to the AMG because of the inhumane U.S. entry restrictions.

There are times that I feel embarrassed and ashamed to be a U.S. citizen. This is one of those times.

Pardon my ignorance for not having the time to do research on this subject more before posting this, but, being Puerto Rico a "Commonwealth" NOT a state of the US, I was wondering if these same laws exist while traveling to the Carribean. I know many US laws are the same, but I go in and out with my meds and have never been asked about them even when the Fuzeon syringes appear on the x-ray screen. Any input out there of those Europeans who have visited my island?

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Catman

Meow to the birdsMeow to the tree'sMeow to the endof this dreadful disease...

i would be interested to know whether emma (gemini) would have been so stressed as to cancel her trip to amg if it had been held in a poz-friendly country. i for one had nightmares for days before taking the trip. and it was evident from posts on the forums that some people did not feel safe to come because of the issue of trying to bring in meds, and so missed out on amg.

I was definitely very anxious about travelling to the US without the required visa waiver. It probably accounted for a large part of the stress induced illness I succumbed to. I was so paranoid that someone somewhere might have identified me at immigration that I wouldn't even list my flight arrival/departure times in case someone could work out who I was and then pull me over when I tried to get in!

Obviously if AMG had been held in a poz-friendly country then that one element of stress would have been eliminated.

I have travelled to the US 3 times since diagnosis and never got this stressed before but then I was a lot less public about my status and also I had a lot more t-cells to play with back then. Travelling with a count just above 100 contributed to my stress because I knew that if I had got sick and had to use medical services then any future trips to the US might have been jeopardised by being there illegally.

I am still bitterly disappointed at missing out on meeting so many members this time around, maybe if there was a European event that would help minimise my stress about travelling; though the stress about what to do with my cat would still need to be addressed!

Pardon my ignorance for not having the time to do research on this subject more before posting this, but, being Puerto Rico a "Commonwealth" NOT a state of the US, I was wondering if these same laws exist while traveling to the Carribean. I know many US laws are the same, but I go in and out with my meds and have never been asked about them even when the Fuzeon syringes appear on the x-ray screen. Any input out there of those Europeans who have visited my island?

Entries and exits from non-US territory, including Puerto Rico, are subject to US customs. All people entering from Europe would go through this, plus most travelers would probably first go through connections in Miami and NYC and thus customs in those locations. But at any rate it would be the same result.

I like the idea of having an AMG in NA as well as in Europe. Go to both, or one, or the other, something for everyone. I still feel very strongly about the East Coast, most of that being due to the fact that I suffer extreme fatigue when traveling. I like the idea of Philly or Baltimore, have NO desire to venture into NYC for anything, lol! Chicago sounds great, but what about Riviera maya (south of Cancun) or Aruba? Less expensive in Mexico, not sure about Aruba, but it would be a middle point for most, wouldn't it? What about Savannah, GA? Hot as balls in September, but a beautiful town, and Thunter would definitely be there!

I was hoping the issue of non-citizens HIV+ individuals entering the US had improved; I'd heard Bush's mentioning it was going to change, but I guess hearing him say something and actually seeing happen it are two different things...

What?! Bush lies?! Say it isn't so

I think Englishgirl and Emma's post give a great insight for our American friends into what we HIV+ folk face when going to the USA. BTW I'm not plumping for the next AMG to be held in Canada, we've been honoured with that twice, and I think it fair that our European members get a chance for the short flights!