His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

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Mar 2006

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Posted On:10/07/2013 2:39pm

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Originally Posted by goodlun

Yes now apply what you just said to the context of me talking about Insurance companies profit. I said I laugh at people who said you need insurance. Same context people telling you, you need to go to a restaurant, bank, or Auto repair place. See how that works? Same think applies perfectly with the Restaurant example. The money you spend their is a waste vs cooking at home. Context it matters.

Once again context but I will spell this out for you. Going back to the restaurant example. If I go eat at a restaurant the difference in cost IE the profit made by the restaurant is money that I have wasted vs preparing the food at home. With some exceptions being made if you want to get into opportunity cost economics.

Anything you spend money on is an investment, that ice cream cone you bought for lunch is just a very poor one. Anything you spend time on is also an investment of time. Every word ever written is being used in the most literal or technical sense. Same way when I said scam I was using it in a colloquial sense the same way if you where at a ball game and paid $7 a beer. You might say to your buddy what a scam. It doesn't mean it is literally a scam.

Funny I was listening to insurance CEOs talk about how good for them the ACA will be during the debates but you know I don't get all my news from a single source.

WOW boy did you miss on this one. ACA is essentially Romney Care taken from MA where it was penned by the Heritage Foundation. There are small changes made in large part by insurance companies.

Proves you don't know much about tort law, or tort reform. I suggest you actually go take a few classes on tort and how the civil justice works. The fact that you believe in the mythical frivolously law suite thing proves you don't know ****.

Oh the Irony in this argument.

No **** no one has said profits in general are a bad thing. If you looked at the context of my argument about insurance profits you would have understood this from the get go.
But that would require you to be able to you know actually think instead of parrot stuff.

Homework done individual mandate in MA works just fine. Now its your turn to show me some where else it has been tried and failed. No it doesn't provide 100% insurance. Could you imagine the hissy fit that would be happening if we went with one of the options that did? Such as single payer?

Your lack of understanding of the ACA is showing. Poor people are not even covered under it. They are suppose to get state run plans such as medical or medicare.

Never said you did, context of the thread my friend context. If you can't read for context the logic will always be lost on you.

Why do you keep saying stupid **** everyone already knows? We all know this basic ****.

Once again no one is claiming profit is evil. Straw man much?

WTF are you talking about Canadians and ACA have 0 to do with each other.

That is fine, guess what happens win small bushiness start to limit their size? They stay small businesses. Now this sounds like it "hurts the economy" it doesn't it only hurts that business. What happens is other people start their own small business to fill the gaps that are not being meet by that guy. So now you have 2 small business with 100 employees instead of one large business with 100 employees same number of people working. Yet the 2nd option more small businesses spreads the wealth better has provides for a stronger middle class.
Its cute you probably don't know who the real job creators are in the country I will tell you something they are not the buisness owners they are the customers.

You do know that I am a business owner right? Its been said in this thread as well as many others. Guess what employees are a pain in the ass and a liability. You have them to improve the amount of profit you can make and nothing more.
It is government run health care, and it sucks. They just copied Medicare over to pre-65, they even adopted COBRA way of counting FTE. Do you homework.

I want you to know I didn't read this post. I down-voted it on general principle. That's way too much block quoting. More quotes doesn't make you even much mor righterest.

Once again context but I will spell this out for you. Going back to the restaurant example. If I go eat at a restaurant the difference in cost IE the profit made by the restaurant is money that I have wasted vs preparing the food at home.

Not really, travel, time, ingredients, and the problem here is not everyone can cook or at least cook well. So you are saying equates to 'Doctor-Heal thyself', because you cannot compare eating out to eating at home to doctoring yourself vs going to the doctor.

Anything you spend money on is an investment

You know what I meant- and its not really. Its a cost. You can use the word investment on your marriage, friendship, watching tv for fucks sake.

Funny I was listening to insurance CEOs talk about how good for them the ACA will be during the debates but you know I don't get all my news from a single source.

Funny, ones here and around the country are not particularly in love with the ACA, unless of course you mean the smart ones who opened up a new Co-op with Free Money from the FED's so now they have zero debt and millions in reserves. Ran by libtards- you know the good buddy deals for Obama supporter...yeah I know, and so no debt and tons of reserves they never earned a dime of. Interesting to see how our hard earned tax dollars will be 'invested' to make sure all claims are paid, with no caps/limits/ free this and free that...(dont get me wrong, I am ok with this stuff but limited free stuff-Nothing is free)

WOW boy did you miss on this one. ACA is essentially Romney Care taken from MA where it was penned by the Heritage Foundation. There are small changes made in large part by insurance companies.

Doesn't make it right. Who cares who penned it. There are components that are not going to work. If you own and business and have lots of employees your rates just went up again, and again. Come Jan 1, more Fed rate imposed. Four plans, and off the exchange plans also. Exchanges out here are going to be for the indigent getting help from medicaid. Everyone elses rates just got jacked. Thanks Obama.

Proves you don't know much about tort law, or tort reform. I suggest you actually go take a few classes on tort and how the civil justice works. The fact that you believe in the mythical frivolously law suite thing proves you don't know ****.

I am not an attorney. Never claimed to know **** about the law except how it applies to me. You obviously don't know the claims that doctors are subject to. Dozens are my clients, thus I hear about them. You are wrong. Explain why malpractice premiums are more than the median income in America....They can get sued and named in any lawsuit whether they did something like negligence or not.

... context of my argument about insurance profits you would have understood this from the get go.....

So answer the question. Do you believe it is right and fair for the government to come and tell you how much profit you can make, or not make for that matter.

Homework done individual mandate in MA works just fine. Now its your turn to show me some where else it has been tried and failed. No it doesn't provide 100% insurance. Could you imagine the hissy fit that would be happening if we went with one of the options that did? Such as single payer?

MA is the most libtard bunch of people with mouths open and hands out. I guess if you say it works there, Here it won't work. Too many native americans with IHS, too many illegals, too many indigent-no access to computer.

Your lack of understanding of the ACA is showing. Poor people are not even covered under it. They are suppose to get state run plans such as medical or medicare.

And just where does the money come from for those two entities? Of course the poor are covered, they were covered before, at the ER. Look goodlun, there are good things in the ACA I really like, but the mandates failed at the SC, admit it.

That is fine, guess what happens win small bushiness start to limit their size? They stay small businesses. Now this sounds like it "hurts the economy" it doesn't it only hurts that business. What happens is other people start their own small business to fill the gaps that are not being meet by that guy. So now you have 2 small business with 100 employees instead of one large business with 100 employees same number of people working. Yet the 2nd option more small businesses spreads the wealth better has provides for a stronger middle class.
Its cute you probably don't know who the real job creators are in the country I will tell you something they are not the buisness owners they are the customers.

So you are one of those. Spread it around, collectively, fair and equal so more can make it....wow... All the business owners I know want to win, not share. WTF!?

You do know that I am a business owner right?

well sir, you write like a government employee who steals toilet paper from work every day. Would of never guessed...successful?

Guess what employees are a pain in the ass and a liability. You have them to improve the amount of profit you can make and nothing more.

We agree, except the nothing more. I don't think you believe that. You wouldnt be around for long if you did.

an individual mandate this style of providing insurance for the masses with the cavorts of no lifetime caps, no preexisting conditions and the what not requires young healthy people to be involved.

ACA is here due to a tax determination. It is wrong and it will not work. It will solve nothing. Still millions will be not paying, and still going to ER's, doc's will be still be getting fucked.

The only way to do that is with an individual mandate. Now the young and healthy people are fine because guess where their income bracket is right in subsidy city.
The individual mandate is the necessary evil to make the whole thing work. Its like all social services we all like them but no one likes taxes.

Everyone I know? We want to pay our own way. We can find polls to say whatever, nobody I know wants this. No one. Rates have jumped and anyone who claims they are paying less now are getting subsidized (FPL subsidy do you understand this?) with also higher deducts, less choices on plans and less docs, SO king Obama has lied, more than the kool aid drinkers care to admit.

The left has some crazy ass extremist.

Agreed

The right is actually putting up crazy ass mother fuckers

Many of them. Doesn't make the ACA good for us.

I happen to like a lot of what the republican party stands for, but their wiliness to allow the ultra right play as much as they do is why I end up voting Dem or 3rd party most of the time.

whaaa..?

Exchanges are already open we are seeng a mixture of rates going up and down.

Problems galore...its a mess.

Mostly down though.

Incorrect...whoever tells you this is full of ****. The subsidy is what you don't hear about. Noboby on welfare goes around beating a drum, "hey my **** is free!"

Once again its private insurance that has to compete with other private insurance companies now to get a bigger base of customers.

Private insurance probably had allot to do with you being born, your company not going up in smoke due to a fire, your spouse having some time to figure stuff out if you die to soon, your friends racing at INDY, and Lloyds writing a check if they wreck, your back molar needing a cap. They compete...and that is good.

On the minority / majority thing, it was more of a lark on my part to goad you into response on the other issue. I may have been a little to quick to jump on it - it's an evolving situation, and as we both have noted, people are keeping their cards to their chests on this. The following will clarify my position that it's a majority allowing this to happen:

A minority of the Republicans are responsible for the idea, but they campaigned among the other members and won at least the support of the Speaker. I'm betting they won the support of a lot of Democrats, too; I've heard in Democrat circles that they believe Republicans are hanging themselves with this strategy, so why wouldn't they support it?

Much of the media - even so-called Republican and right-leaning programs - are offering similar analysis, complete with polls about "who is to blame for the shutdown." Those pussies worried about re-election (especially those that are being challenged by Tea Party candidates, and there are Republicans in that number) are the only ones in Congress actually worried about the shutdown. Because they are afraid it might actually work, in spite of them.

If you take, of the 200 Democrats, those that support the idea for political expediency and add them to the 80 publicly-for Republican members, and the uncounted for-but-not-publicly-against Republicans, I think you get an easy majority that "support," the strategy. I get to that majority by considering the converse: they would go after Boehner, a move which would require all the Democrats and only a relative handful (say, 17) Republicans.

The short version is, all the outrage over the shutdown is theater put on for our benefit.

Not really, travel, time, ingredients, and the problem here is not everyone can cook or at least cook well. So you are saying equates to 'Doctor-Heal thyself', because you cannot compare eating out to eating at home to doctoring yourself vs going to the doctor.

You do know you can go to the dr. with out having insurance right? Which was my point when I made the statements about insurance profits. If I pay the Dr. Directly I am saving the money that portion of the money that the insurance company makes as profit. This has never been about anti-profit or anti-insurance other than to say they are not needed. Its all context to the argument being made not the tangents your going off on.

Originally Posted by -TANK-

You know what I meant- and its not really. Its a cost. You can use the word investment on your marriage, friendship, watching tv for fucks sake.

wow just wow. You make a comment on what I was saying then you say you know what I meant? It was all about what i meant. Christ can't you follow a conversation without confusing yourself? I said investment you got confused as to me not using it in a technical sense. Really? I mean really? your going to go to the what I meant statement when its never been about what you where saying?

Originally Posted by -TANK-

Ran by libtards- you know the good buddy deals for Obama supporter...

Yep and this right here really should be the end of discussion you lack complete objectivity. Your an ideologue who isn't willing to challenge your beliefs and to hold them up to scrunchy. Your intellectually dishonest.

Originally Posted by -TANK-

Everyone elses rates just got jacked. Thanks Obama.

Provide a nonpartisan study that proves what you just said.

Originally Posted by -TANK-

I am not an attorney.

It shows

Originally Posted by -TANK-

They can get sued and named in any lawsuit whether they did something like negligence or not.

Tort reform doesn't change this. It changes how liable they are for negligence. It doesn't prevent them from being sued. It caps the damages that they pay out when they are found to have been negligent in the court by a judge or jury. Plain and simple it keeps them from having to make good on the damages they have caused.

Originally Posted by -TANK-

So answer the question. Do you believe it is right and fair for the government to come and tell you how much profit you can make, or not make for that matter.

If the government came and said everyone in the country is going to now need your service I think them putting a reasonable cap on what % I can make off of that is not out of the realm of fairness.

Originally Posted by -TANK-

MA is the most libtard bunch of people with mouths open and hands out.

Massachusetts receives 0.82 for each tax dollar it pays out. Yeah sounds like they are sitting around taking federal government hand outs.

Originally Posted by -TANK-

I guess if you say it works there, Here it won't work. Too many native americans with IHS, too many illegals, too many indigent-no access to computer.

Illegals are not covered, and don't effect the policy at all. Those on IHS also not effected nor effect the policy, you can get insurance without a computer but more to the point if you don't have a computer at home you most likely don't qualify for ACA. So once again your lack of knowledge about ACA is showing yet you have a strong opinion on it.

Originally Posted by -TANK-

but the mandates failed at the SC, admit it.

This has to be the most ignorant thing said thus far in the thread. The mandates where upheld at the SC that is why they are still in the law.

Originally Posted by -TANK-

So you are one of those. Spread it around, collectively, fair and equal so more can make it....wow... All the business owners I know want to win, not share. WTF!?

No I am for the freemarket as can been seen by 100s of my post on this site. However I do know one thing when the money is spread around the economy as a whole does a lot better and GDP growth is a lot larger and the DOW goes up. So yes a strong middle class is better for even the super rich.

Originally Posted by -TANK-

I don't think you believe that. You wouldnt be around for long if you did.

Its a common enough belief. You think fortune 500 companies treat employees well out of the kindness of their hearts? No they do so cause its the best way to get the most out of your employees. Productivity goes up with treating them like humans. But at the end of the say if the employee isn't profitable or needed good bye.

Originally Posted by -TANK-

It is wrong and it will not work. It will solve nothing. Still millions will be not paying, and still going to ER's, doc's will be still be getting fucked.

Man up with a study that supports your claims.

Originally Posted by -TANK-

The subsidy is what you don't hear about.

How many times have I mentioned it? an awful lot for something not heard about. All ACA is, is a Subsidy program. That is all. Its a tax credit so that people can buy private insurance.

Originally Posted by -TANK-

Private insurance probably had allot to do with you being born, your company not going up in smoke due to a fire, your spouse having some time to figure stuff out if you die to soon, your friends racing at INDY, and Lloyds writing a check if they wreck, your back molar needing a cap. They compete...and that is good.

First of all I never claimed private insurance is a bad thing. All I have pointed out is this isn't government run health care its private insurance.
All of this because you don't understand the context of certain statements.
I carry certain types of insurance without a mandate such as life insurance because it made sense when I did the risk analysis. That is the whole fucking point. The benefits have to be greater than the cost. The risk mitigated has to be sufficient to what you pay out.

If the government came and said everyone in the country is going to now need your service I think them putting a reasonable cap on what % I can make off of that is not out of the realm of fairness.

Interesting. That word...fairness again.

Illegals are not covered, and don't effect the policy at all. Those on IHS also not effected nor effect the policy, you can get insurance without a computer but more to the point if you don't have a computer at home you most likely don't qualify for ACA. So once again your lack of knowledge about ACA is showing yet you have a strong opinion on it.

And what happens when Mr. Illegal shows up at ER, or Mrs. Illegal shows up at maternity ward. Who pays that? We do. So really NOTHING will change. They don't file IRS returns, they will get taken care of on our nickle. And the comment about computer I think you meant the other way around. No computer- YOU MIGHT be eligible for coverage, due to being dead ass broke. Our state covered everyone. Medicaid for everybody! Free **** for everyone! Come one, come all. Quit yer jobs...sign right up. Such bull ****. You want proof? Tell me this... do you pay 100% for your employee's health insurance premium? And their family? Do you even offer it? If so, why? If not Why not? Did you hand out your model notices by last Monday? Anyway...not sure you know anything, just repeating rhetoric form the left, and by the way, I am not a Repug. Just a business man.

This has to be the most ignorant thing said thus far in the thread. The mandates where upheld at the SC that is why they are still in the law.

"At the same time, the court rejected the argument that the administration had pressed most vigorously in support of the law, that its individual mandate was justified by Congressï¿½s power to regulate interstate commerce. The court also substantially limited the lawï¿½s expansion ofMedicaid, the joint federal-state program that provides health care to poor and disabled people. Seven justices agreed that Congress had exceeded its constitutional authority by coercing states into participating in the expansion by threatening them with the loss of existing federal payments. LINK

How many times have I mentioned it? an awful lot for something not heard about. All ACA is, is a Subsidy program. That is all. Its a tax credit so that people can buy private insurance.

Policies offered are now limited, due to MEB, MV etc.,

I carry certain types of insurance without a mandate such as life insurance because it made sense when I did the risk analysis.

Sure...well at least you love your family enough to look past the 'analysis'. Thats a good thing.

...just figuring out this site. Pretty cool site. Even when faced with this...

Even more frightening is the questions I am getting from people shopping around...'free' come up quite a bit.

Also, huge number of questions regarding 'doctors' on certain plans.

Most doctors haven't moved here except to the Co-Op, and they haven't moved they have contracted with. I still contend this 'shutdown' is over Obamacare. Nothing else really. Obama also delayed his penalties for groups over 50, until after the election. Pretty funny you can't see this, slurping the kool-aid must be blinding you to the obvious.

goodlun,
Being objective, there is some language about Tort Reform, in the ACA, however, this should have been done first, by itself. The trend of rising premiums may have taken a dip...we will never know now. Thanks O!

Also being objective, the 'wellness association' provisions opened the door a crack for us to offer rate reductions to groups who attempted to get healthier. I liked this part. You may want to look into that, where ever you live.

Another flaw LINK is the implementation of this. So the Admin tells us millions are without, tells us millions will sign up, they make us (brokers) go through CMS training, and then, its all show-no go. Haha. Typical government admin. Waste and more waste. And the traffic they got? They say its because people want it and are trying to sign up. I call BS, I try to get on to shop it for my clients, but I guess we shall see.

wait a second your the one who said is it fair dumb ass. you asked the fairness

Originally Posted by -TANK-

And what happens when Mr. Illegal shows up at ER, or Mrs. Illegal shows up at maternity ward. Who pays that? We do. So really NOTHING will change.

This is an entirely separate issue from ACA. It has nothing to do with ACA. Is it an issue sure is but ACA going through or not doesn't change this, the individual mandate doesn't change this. This isn't a part of the debate.

Originally Posted by -TANK-

And the comment about computer I think you meant the other way around. No computer- YOU MIGHT be eligible for coverage, due to being dead ass broke.

WOW you are dense. Already been stated in plain English the dead ass broke are not eligible for ACA. This is what I love, I love the fact that you don't know any of the finer details about the ACA but you want to argue its merits/dismerits. You have an opinion on something you know nothing about other than talking points.
ACA is not for the POOR.

WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court on Thursday upheld President Obama’s health care overhaul law, saying its requirement that most Americans obtain insurance or pay a penalty was authorized by Congress’s power to levy taxes. The vote was 5 to 4, with Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. joining the court’s four more liberal members.

Yep individual mandate upheld as a tax. Guess what that means the SC upheld the mandate. End of the day they called it a tax which it is and are using that tax to subsidize private insurance plans. Go figure.

Originally Posted by -TANK-

Sure...well at least you love your family enough to look past the 'analysis'. Thats a good thing.

While my writing is far from the best around, your reading comprehension is terrible.
I didn't look past the 'analysis'. I did my own. You see life insurance polices look at a small subset of risk factors those risk factors I don't have. I do however have other risk factors they don't use. Such as the fact that I spend a lot of time driving. I work with live electricity and I am often exposed in the public with large amounts of cash up for grabs.
On top of that the policy I have is one of those where if I don't die I get everything I paid in back. So the cost for my coverage is the % I would have earned on that money. So if I do die my family gets enough to keep them a float. If I don't die I get the money back.

BTW if you really where worried about Federal deficit and spending you have to fix it on a state level.
We have 17 states that manage to pay more into federal government than they get back and 1 state that pays in exactly what it gets back. The rest get more from the federal government than they pay in, in income tax.
Fix those states fix their broken as economies and policies.
New Jersey is awesome they only get .61 cents back on every $1 they pay in income tax but New Mexico those ass hole take $2.03 for every dollar they pay in.
You could claim border issues but CA, TX are both under a $1 but they are large states. So lets look at AZ $1.19 now that is reasonable. AZ is on the border and a small state. So the extra .19 makes sense.

wait a second your the one who said is it fair dumb ass. you asked the fairness

This is what I asked you...

...So answer the question. Do you believe it is right and fair for the government to come and tell you how much profit you can make, or not make for that matter.

and you said:

If the government came and said everyone in the country is going to now need your service I think them putting a reasonable cap on what % I can make off of that is not out of the realm of fairness.

I still see this as different than other electrical firms I deal with. Albeit they are non-union, so I see now where you come from is all, perhaps a bit of social-ism, are you a union shop? Anyway, why get defensive?

WOW you are dense. Already been stated in plain English the dead ass broke are not eligible for ACA. This is what I love, I love the fact that you don't know any of the finer details about the ACA but you want to argue its merits/dismerits. You have an opinion on something you know nothing about other than talking points. ACA is not for the POOR.

Wait a minute, so let me get this right. The expansion of Medicaid was struck down, so only 26 states are offering coverage, and the whole idea was to cover everyone, so now, we just accept the poor are **** out of luck. What? Am I supposed to be pissed at the SC, or my state. Is this good for America? Perhaps 8 Million not insured? Sheesh, this ACA thing is really working isn't it.

Yep individual mandate upheld as a tax. Guess what that means the SC upheld the mandate. End of the day they called it a tax which it is and are using that tax to subsidize private insurance plans. Go figure.

So they sold it as healthcare, but it turns out it was a tax.
Oh here is the message I got all day trying to get on the exchange for the ACA here... -Gateway Timeout-

I didn't look past the 'analysis'. I did my own. You see life insurance polices look at a small subset of risk factors those risk factors I don't have. I do however have other risk factors they don't use. Such as the fact that I spend a lot of time driving. I work with live electricity and I am often exposed in the public with large amounts of cash up for grabs.

Very dangerous work, not for sissy's. So tell you what. You prove to me that the ACA has nothing to do with our government being so divisive and causing this shut down, ie the R's want the Indie Mandate delayed JUST LIKE the Shared Employer Mandate has been delayed, prove it mind you...and I will send you a bottle of Jameson. (my favorite value) We can work that out with the managers of the site I am sure.

On top of that the policy I have is one of those where if I don't die I get everything I paid in back. So the cost for my coverage is the % I would have earned on that money. So if I do die my family gets enough to keep them a float. If I don't die I get the money back.

So am I to believe that you are paying for a permanent life policy, you know the one that returns premium to you IF you don't die (by a certain time) and at a certain point of course, perhaps it is a 10 pay, 20 pay, paid up at 65, or whole, UL, or Variable, (doesn't really matter) but bottom line is you get all that cash back...Is this right? Very nice to hear you take care of bidness at home with caring enough to buy that stuff. Says allot.