Psycho-Babble Politics Thread 1052214

In reply to Re: gov't shutdown.... :(, posted by sigismund on October 16, 2013, at 18:17:03

> I have read that the efficient markets hypothesis is a species of utopianism derived, at some distance, from a type of Christianity. I may be simplifying a little :)

It is a kind of utopianism -- free markets always work. I don't know about the relation to christianity.> > I would really like to read "The Economic Consequences of the Peace", simply because it is referenced so often in the history books and would be well written. Cheap from amazon too.

It's a short book. Argued that the Versailles Treaty would ruin Germany. Very prescient.

In reply to Re: gov't shutdown.... :(, posted by baseball55 on October 16, 2013, at 18:45:36

> > I have read that the efficient markets hypothesis is a species of utopianism derived, at some distance, from a type of Christianity. I may be simplifying a little :)> > It is a kind of utopianism -- free markets always work. I don't know about the relation to christianity.

It seems to me that in Christianity, God has a monopoly. How does a monopoly affect a market?

In reply to Re: gov't shutdown.... :(, posted by Dr. Bob on October 17, 2013, at 1:37:51

The God of the Christians and the Jews and the Muslims is the same God?

Before we get on to the others, including the animists, sadly depleted these days.

The way I deal with the idea of dying is this: There is this idea that time is something we pass through (while prowling about on matter). And another idea is that time is a property of matter (time space whatnot) and the whole caboodle. In which case I have nothing useful to say or think, and therefore stop.

In reply to Re: gov't shutdown.... :(, posted by sigismund on October 20, 2013, at 17:00:32

> > > The God of the Christians and the Jews and the Muslims is the same God?> > > > Good question. It seems to me that God has a monopoly in each "market". Whether or not they're the same.>> There are many cultures for which this has not been true, if I understand you correctly.......Hindus in particular.> > The monotheisms, OTOH, Pauline theology and fundamentalist Islam in particular...well yes, you are right about them.

That's what I meant, I should've said "in each of those 'markets'". Mono-theism = mono-poly.

In reply to Re: gov't shutdown.... :(, posted by Dr. Bob on October 19, 2013, at 23:07:38

> > > It seems to me that in Christianity, God has a monopoly. How does a monopoly affect a market?> > > > The God of the Christians and the Jews and the Muslims is the same God?> > Good question. It seems to me that God has a monopoly in each "market". Whether or not they're the same.> > Bob

Sorry, but I fail to see what this has to do with politics. Did I stray into the Faith Board?

Dr Bob, moving any thread of length and activity to another board, effectively kills it. Just so you notice the trend that has been being going on for about 8 years or so.

In reply to Re: gov't shutdown.... :(, posted by Partlycloudy on October 23, 2013, at 21:49:33

Some people talk about all sorts of things and simply can't separate them into politics/religion/social and so on.

Didn't we stray into politics further back the thread? Really I can't remember. It started on Social, then there was economics and baseball's lucid explanation of the fiscal multiplier. I would argue (just to be difficult) that it should be on Faith because the rational markets hypothesis is utopianism derived from the Christian variety.

> I don't know... Some of the threads he redirects to admin take off...> > alexandra_k

1. One way to see it is that moving it kills it. Another would be that there isn't enough interest in the topic to keep it alive. If there's interest in the topic (the new board is active, as in the case of Admin), then it won't die.

2. This thread isn't dead yet.

--

> Sorry, but I fail to see what this has to do with politics. Did I stray into the Faith Board?> > Partlycloudy

> I would argue (just to be difficult) that it should be on Faith because the rational markets hypothesis is utopianism derived from the Christian variety.>> sigismund

Or it can stay here because Democrats and Republicans have difficulty resolving conflicts for the same reason that Jews and Muslims have difficulty resolving conflicts?

In reply to Re: gov't shutdown.... :(, posted by Dr. Bob on October 24, 2013, at 21:48:07

It might be said that the killing of this thread happened when the shutdown ended.I no longer frequent this board very often as I don't feel I have much of worth to contribute. I am quick disillusioned by the political process by now. Too many electoral cycles have sapped my emotional attention unnecessarily. I now believe it's virtually all the same.

A split in the opposition party would create some interesting chaos. I would not imagine a coalition would result, with knives sticking out of too many backs to be effective.

We shall see.

But this subject has all but sunk back into the mud where it came from. That's what pols do, isn't it? Sling mud at each other and see what sticks?

In reply to Re: gov't shutdown.... :(, posted by Partlycloudy on October 25, 2013, at 9:07:26

I think what the media shows us of politics is a bit like a three ringed circus precisely because it is yet another form of entertainment. It needs to cater for the average person, or something like that. Something to persuade people (for the most part) to keep the status quo (keep order). Occasionally other messages. To spend. Whatever. Most people read magazines. Think of women's magazines with all the gossip etc. There is a reason why politics seems similar so very much of the time.

I feel... Fairly disillusioned about humanity. I have started to develop an interest in institutional policy, though. Seeing how much it really does have the power to affect significant numbers of people. How good policy can assist you / come down on your side for reasonable and legitimate concerns.

E.g., because one can cite maintenance of World Health Organization standards of habitable living environment (temperature, humidity) as 'fair use' of power etc when such costs are supposed to be included in rent (not my fault / problem the house isn't appropriately insulated). This can make a HUGE DIFFERENCE for many people's lives. I learned that 1/3 of people in NZ live sub- world health organization standards. Typically over-crowding is the issue. They do acknowledge (though they don't quite put it like this) that even if they were given bigger houses they would still all choose to huddle together with their litter mates in just the one room, however.

One third. Holy crap. This is why my continually saying 'my living environment is making me sick' to Work and Income was being ignored. Less than one third of people are on welfare. I guess that means that most people on welfare are living in such conditions.

Turns out mostly students are, too. Not the ones in student accommodation (that is where the rich people put their kids, you see). But the ones outside student accommodation.

They used to have the policy of selecting the best from school for student accommodation but pressure... Now they are supposed to select those who are disadvantaged. My eventually getting a place wasn't so much about my grades or motivation... As it was about my poverty. And then they wonder why they have such problems in the halls with drunkenness and 'parties' (litter mates congregating together and yelling all the time).

I suspect people do see this problem... But it is hard to know what to do about it.

There is this other institution across the bridge where they could be right at home...

Yesterday I knocked on the girls room across the hallway to ask her to turn her music down since it had awoken me at 8.30am and another of the girls went off at me about how I should f*ck off - that they are quiet 80% of the time and I need to stop moaning about that other 20%.

So the idea is that the people I'm living with have organized themselves into the position that it is fair use for them to be noisy 20% of the time.

I am currently in the process of pointing out that students do better when they have quiet space to study / sleep / work and to keep the end hallway as silent space is a lot less than 20% of the space of the whole property. People can be noisy 100% of the time up the other end of the house, in the other 2 houses, and in the rest of the world more generally. If you give us the opportunity for silent study space then it is of course a separate issue whether individuals choose to utilize it - but at least you can say you gave them that opportunity. They don't seem to appreciate that their blasting music at 8.30am would be like me blasting music at 3.30am. I have the consideration to wear headphones. They think that they keep 'normal people' hours. I pointed out that it would be nice to have the freedom to work, sleep, and study as one sees fit without having ones schedule dictated to by others. (I didn't say this but it goes without saying ESPECIALLY others who didn't manage to finish high school / others who can't do assignments without sitting in the communal space with puppy dog eyes till someone else does the assignment for one).

Holy crap.

At least I'm getting excited about policy, I suppose. It isn't really that we are poor... It is more that we can't organize our way out of a paper bag. We can't even 1) identify what is needed for success 2) institutionalise it in policy

In reply to Re: gov't shutdown.... :(, posted by alexandra_k on October 25, 2013, at 16:35:48

Exactly my point. That kind of sensibility wouldn't have a chance in the US culture. It's entirely driven by the media, which is driven by the corporation sponsorship, which also grease the wheels in Washington...hopelessly mired. The purest of hearts and intentions would be ground into the finest pepper served at the worst cafe.

I am now convinced that, unless the money is taken away (political campaign spending) there is no hope for anything other than Hallowe'en type of financial finagling.

It really is disgusting, to this non-citizen, traveler of other countries. If it comes across that I think lowly of citizens and their view of their standing in the world power competition, it's because I am aware that more Americans don't have passports than do.