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Author
Topic: There are a lot of miserable people here (Read 12600 times)

The one thing that has struck me since I started reading these forums this year is that there are a lot of unhappy people on here. I can understand the newly infected being upset and depressed. I can understand the people who are currently ill being depressed. But there are so many people on here who just appear angry and miserable for no good reason. No, I personally don't consider being HIV+ and asymptomatic a good reason to be miserable. It reminds me when I went to a HIV support group when I was newly infected, 80% of the people there had mental health issues that had nothing to do with HIV. I wonder what percentage of people with HIV were depressed before they were infected and if perhaps their depression contributed to their being infected. I also wonder whether HIV is affecting our neurochemistry in subtle ways that have yet to be identified.

Ooooh! Good thread, GSO! I've wondered about the potential mental effects thing myself! I will say that I have NO DOUBT that depression helped lead me to HIV. Mine was classic reckless behavior brought about as a means of passive suicide...rather, an indifference to living that I had.

I will also say that I know EXACTLY what you mean about some people who appear to be angry...just because? Given the choice of being a crazy nut or a bitter berry, I will always opt for the nut. Of course, my preference for nuts is also part of what led me here....

EXCELLENT GSO!!! Being positive finally led me to realizing that I do and have suffered from depression and am taking meds to help with it. Does that mean I am happy all the time, of course not, but I am able to cope better.

Wow, never thought about depression leading to behavior that led to infection. But I would say that definitely played a part of it as well as lots of booze and poppers.

Great thread,Woods

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"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it." Nelson Mandela

I wonder what percentage of people with HIV were depressed before they were infected and if perhaps their depression contributed to their being infected.

I seem to recall during the great days of my psych major in college (only for self-diagnostic purposes... I can assure you of that ) studies that showed that depressed people are more likely to engage in risky behaviors like drugs, heavy drinking, and unprotected sex.

I've also seen a lot of stuff indicating that poz people are much more likely to be depressed than negative people... of course, correlation doesn't imply a cause... but since there's a lot about this virus that we don't know yet... who can say?

I'd say I had mild depression all my life. I've never seen anyone for it, but thought about it many times. It didn't lead me to drug use and alcohol and reckless unprotected sex. But it did fester my low self-esteem.

My low self-esteem lead to me to HIV. I was in a low esteem period after the summer and a cute young man knocked on my front door....

This subject is long overdue, thank you. At 19...long time ago...I was more into the immediate gratification of sex with a man. Up to that point, I had only had sex (intercourse, to be exact) with women, and I was damn "horrified" of getting one of my girlie one night stands pregnant. My first real shag with a guy was in college and I was quite high on pot and quite honestly, I didn't even think about HIV. It felt great and that was that. I do, however, think I have always been "hypersexual", though I wouldn't feel comfortable with a label of bisexual. In retrospect, I think I've experienced "highs"...maybe even mild episodes of "mania", though no real depression. I never had any thoughts of suicide.

However, after my diagnosis, for at least the following four or five years, I had a "go out with a bang" attitude...sort of a self-destructive, warped notion of living in the "here and now". Perhaps, that was a slow suicide. It eventually passed and I sought out some "medicinal supplements" aka Paxil and never looked back. I do think that young people, inherently think (as I did) that they are somehow invincible and recklessly shag like minks.

The results of my actions got me here, and I don't necessarily view where I am at as a negative thing. Had I not contracted HIV, maybe I wouldn't have placed the value of living each day so vibrantly. I think the real choices come after the diagnosis. Do I live or die...meaning, do I try to embrace moderation or strive to burn so brightly that I do, indeed, burn out. I was a wild buck, in my day, so maybe it is just luck that I made it this far.

Do I think being HIV positive has added stress in my life? Sure, but mostly that was early on. I think you can hide behind your diagnosis and it eventually can eat you up. Like I said earlier, you really make a choice to go on living. The HIV medication can play with your testosterone level and make you more lethargic, etc. Do I think that adds to a favorable condition for depression? Sure, I do. All in all, none of us have any guarantees on the length of time we are going to be here, so I say make the most of your living experience and respect the fact that you have a virus in your body. Living through moderation is a real challenge for me still, since I do tend to bounce pretty high from time to time. However, I have to make the decision to try my best to embrace it in order to survive.

The uncertainty of the disease, in itself, can be burdensome. But I have to ask myself all of the time, am I more afraid of dying from this disease or am I more afraid of living with it. I still have to be careful not to blame my HIV for most of the poor decisions I've made in my life. That's total BS and a cop out. The more you can address things truthfully in your life, the better your chances of living longer. That my philosophy in a nutshell. Don't suppress the darkness in your life, embrace it and it will pass through more quickly. And for yourself, embrace the joy and simplicity in your life when it's visiting you. The very nature of things make us roll from bad to good to bad and then back to good.

Sorry, if this seemed like a discombobulated rant, but I feel very much like I live through the process of trying to answer this question everyday of my life. And for the most part, I find myself in a fun, playful space.

Thanks for the question (GSOgymrat), and I thank all of you who had the patience to read this response to the end.

I think there are probably a lot of miserable people here, but more likely, there are even more that are not miserable. We just don't normally post and tell how great a relationship is going, or how good a new job is, etc. It's just human nature... people tend to bitch more than they talk about the good things. I was noticing lately how positive and funny a lot of members are. It makes the forums a lot more pleasant.

Bravo, David, bravo!!!Isn't that why were here? To give support and understanding to everyone?...no matter how pissed off or depressed someone is. We're here with open arms............and a bitch slap every now and then.

I am in 100% total agreement with you here on this topic. I am rubbing my face, scratching my head, and even thinking of taking a walk outside to breathe in the fresh air as I think about this topic.

With ALL of US, Yes, US, there are a number of different external and internal anxieties that EXIST as a REALITY within ALL of our lives in this life. By our experiencing these anxieties, it automatically triggers our thought processing which leads to other thoughts and different scenarios.

With some, there are other chemical influences that are involved including Alcohol, along with the recovery from the path of self-destructive behaviors. There are also a lot of inner fears in which are lying dormant or have been buried because the individual chooses not to address these issues of their reality as they chose to cope with it other ways.

It truly is a challenge to address such of an issue as the individual needs to take the responsibility for his/herself for their own actions. In short, they need to hold themselves accountable for their own actions. After ALL in this life, we make our own choices as to how we feel and how we think.

We are the programmers of our very own thoughts in our minds along with the gained experiences whether they were positive or negative. The majority of the time a number of CHOICES that are made are made based on our past experiences which created a development of inner fears that are hidden from the normal view to someone who is giving support for the individual.

In this case, misery does love to have company. It is a direct result of making up an excuse not to change or to address the issue. Some do like to be in this certain pool of obsessive thinking, self-destructive behavior, and everything else that goes along with it. It ALL boils down to CHOICE. You choose how you feel. No one can change how you fell but yourself.

When you take a look at yourself and find out what yourself is doing, there are a lot of things that may not look to best suit your "expectations" of yourself and some just do not want to DEAL with it. Instead they rather DWELL on it. When a person DWELL"S, it tends to lead them into Chronic Depression. This is a proven element with the nature of our Human existence.

Now, there is nothing wrong with a person wanting to be by themselves and to spend time alone with themselves. During this time, they are processing the information or events or experiences in their lives in order to...Yes, understand what is going on in their lives. Often with the positive steps taken to Accept the situation, then understand the situation, then to communicate the situation often HELPS the individual to...get out of the pit of quicksand that they are in.

In this case if they wiggle to hard or too much, there is a possibility of suffocation of their emotions. When a person is in this state-of-mind, it often takes time for them to recover with slow and steady steps. Often, it does take another to be in their lives in order to support them in any way that they can in order to get out of the pit of quicksand.

One of the more effective ways of HELPING a person is their WILLINGNESS to communicate and to be open and to share what is going on inside of them. No one is a mind reader. It takes for that individual to open up from within and express themselves and to be open for advice and direction rather than getting defensive with the situation. When a person is on the defense for their own attitudes that they have chosen, then there is nothing that you can really do until that individual ACCEPTS that there is a problem and to be willing to have someone help them get through what they are going through.

Often, quite often, it IS a PAINFUL experience that an individual experiences while these changes are taking place in their lives. Some do not want to DEAL with the pain, therefore they go in to a different phase of allowing their inner fears to take control of their lives. When a person allows this, this is when they in a sense loose control. It is up to the individual not to ALLOW these fears to take over them in this life.

We are our safe place, we are our safe person and it is we whom control and program our minds with thoughts. Just as it was programmed it can be reprogrammed. Often during he reprogramming process, the individual is processing the information that is given in order to arrive to a certain result of understanding. When an understanding or realization takes place within the person, then this is where PROGRESS is made with the individual and they are well on there way to the road of their recovery.

In some cases it is necessary for the individual to be medicated in order to HELP them as they cope to recover from the Depression. The key here is that the individual must be WILLLING to change. If they are, there are so many positive that will come out of the situation through the process of change. If they can get over the resistance to change then they will experience the other emotions that are buried deep within them.

I did not mean to turn this into a book. However, when you are delivering a message, you do not want to leave any of the details out of it. Do You? No. If you do, then how will the person get the message in order to gain an understanding? The fact is, it is all by choice of the individual. They choose how they wish to feel. It is unfortunate, however it is true. We all tend to get blue sometimes but it does pass just as the storms do out at sea.

In this situation, the question would be, What can be done in order to HELP them? in what way can an understanding take place with the individual without justifying it? Justification is just another way to say it is OK to be that way when there is something better.

Very good topic of discussion. I just pray that an individual in this situation takes a good look at themselves and see that there is more to life within them.

Thanks for sharing.

Enjoy your Holiday Season.

"Don't You Dare Give Up, Don't You Dare Give In... Cause it is ALL within you to WIN!"

UPDATED TO SAY: I think GSO was posing some legitimate and poignant questions of us all here based on some overall observations.

I do not think that asking him to now start identifying posts (and thus people) in a singular fashion is going to propel this thread in any beneficial way. I think that attempting to force this into happening is instead only going to prove to be a good way to spread (dare I say it?) misery.

I really do wanna give kudos to GSO for this thread. Depression seems to go hand and hand with so many ailments- not just HIV. I know it to be gospel for me personally. And I am not one at all that believes we have to be shiny, happy people 24/7/365. I don't even believe that is possible, really. Sometimes life simply hands you a big, fat bucket of shit...and it makes perfect sense for your emotions to respond accordingly. I've just also noticed that there are a few around for which unhappiness and anger seem to be the guiding forces in their lives. Hey, that has been ME plenty of times in the past. I think trying to figure out how that kind of spiritual infection takes hold of (and sometimes takes over) our lives is a subject worth addressing.

I find the word miserable an interesting choice to use, one which you have done several times in your original post so I assume you very much meant that.

I'm curious, and I do ask this question bluntly, am I one that you consider to be miserable? If so, I would like an example of a post I made that gave you such insight into my state of being.

If you do not have me in mind, I still request an example of what you mean by a post illustrating that a person is miserable.

I'll save my reply until you are kind enough to respond.

Honestly, I wasn't thinking of any particular person or post when I started this thread and I'm not going to make an example out of anyone here. Reading over the various forums it's apparent there are a lot of unhappy or irritable people on here. There are also a lot of very upbeat, funny and caring people on here too. If you don't see it that way, then we just disagree. I assure you I was not talking about you or any other particular member.

Well, one rather obvious differentiation is that people who are upbeat for no apparent reason generally seem to spread that feeling of good will to everyone else, whereas people who appear angry and 'miserable' for no apparent reason end up spreading the opposite.

I recognize validity in people being in different places (see my above post about the big bucket of shit), but I think GSO was addressing a behavior that I've witnessed on here fairly frequently: people using inflammatory language (and making initial posts even) that read as though their primary intent is to start an argument or simply create an opportunity to insult people or take whatever personal happiness they may have away from them.

Compared to other non-hiv online forums I've participated in my opinion a higher percentage of people on AidsMeds forums appear to be depressed and irritable, and that is excluding the recently diagnosed and the currently ill. There are people on here who talk freely about how lonely they are, how life is unfulfilling, etc. There are other people on here who appear to be antagonistic most of the time. I'm not saying people shouldn't be posting what they are feeling. What I'm saying is that I've not participated in a forum where there have been so many people who are so obviously unhappy. I'm not sure what role HIV plays in this but I'm curious.

Frankly, I tend to not talk about how I'm feeling on here because no one really wants to hear about my good mood. My reality is I'm a happy guy, not bubbly happy but very content. I don't think I've ever been truly depressed, even when my partner and I tested HIV+. It takes a lot to make me angry and when I get angry it doesn't last. It worries me a little though that HIV or the meds might slowly alter my neurochemistry and make me moody. Were a lot of people on here depressed before they were HIV+ or did people get HIV and become depressed?

I was tangled up in blue long before HIV, and I believe that is a large contributing factor to why I ended up poz. I used vice of all kinds to stave off feelings of depression, to self-medicate through substance and behavior. Better living through chemistry, one might say was the intent. The fact for me is that I have become more responsible in my behavior SINCE diagnosis in many ways. As I said above, I think my behavior was indicative of an indifference toward being alive that I had at the time. HIV was God's/Life's/Fate's way of calling my bluff...

I also understand your worry about possible disruption of neurochemistry here. I've also wondered that same thing, especially when I consider it in reference to the 'AIDS Dementia' condition I have heard so much of. I wondered that, if the meds have difficulty crossing the blood/brain barrier, doesn't that lead to a possible high build up of virus in the brain over time? What kind of effect might that have? If it may result in 'dementia', could it not also effect the portions of the brain that help regulate mood? And even if not much of the meds cross into the brain...we still gulp 'em down every single day, so there would be some cumulative effect over time. As many weird side effects as these chemicals present otherwise, it doesn't seem that great of a stretch of the imagination that they may also lead to such conditions in the mind.

Anger I know well. I lived in it most of my formative years, and once out of my parental home, I found reasons not to deal with that except by turning it on myself with destructive unhealthy choices and bad relationships. When we know better, we do better.

Its easy (and lazy) to go through life dumping and complaining. (Sounds rather like what babes in diapers do doesnt it.) I find some people enjoy magnifying their miseries, usually people who need to do the work of growing up and finding a realistic perspective on life. If they dont want to, thats their choice, and mine is not to get pulled into it. Misery may love company, but count me out thanks.

Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional. EVERYONE, Poz or not has genuine problems. Being HIV positive is not license to dump those on others. When people try to do that in my life, I simply scoff and get on with it. Its a conscious decision I made years ago. I'm more than willing to lend support to people who are really trying to solve problems, but not to chronic complainers.

Then there are people who simply dont see (or care) that how they behave impacts others, even on the Internet. Theyll suck the very life out of you if you let them, and I dont let them.

A persons health, state of mind, and cognitive function isnt helped by continued drinking or drugging either. Alcohol is a drug  a depressive drug. If Id not got clean and sober just prior to my diagnosis, I would not be alive today. No question.

But there are so many people on here who just appear angry and miserable for no good reason

be careful of judging people from what you extrapolate from an internet site. It would be like saying that it appears all gay guys have 9 inches and are hotter than porn stars from reading a gay site.For many this is the only outlet for to bitch on subjects that they otherwise can't.How many people here can bring up Ryan White cuts or Atripla side effects with the neighbors? While you might get an inkling of what someone is like to broad brush someone 's personality because of how you perceive them coming off in a forum would be crazy, if not a tad bit judgmental. Also try and think how long the person had been bottling up on something so it comes off even more severe. Then again maybe we are all just Leonard Cohen fans!Love and rocketsJohnny Well My spell check is still not working so you can blame it on that

« Last Edit: December 23, 2006, 07:13:32 AM by alisenjafi »

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"You shut your mouthhow can you sayI go about things the wrong wayI am human and I need to be lovedjust like everybody else does"The Smiths

I must be one of those shallow people here. I am blonde, I am a flight attendant, I am beautiful...Fortunately I have never felt miserable for having HIV. I felt terrified and frightened at the beginning. Once I was able to overcome those feelings (specially after starting meds) I felt as Happy as before being diagnosed. I never felt anger for the person from whom I contracted HIV, and never felt ashamed. In fact I told all my friends and even my employer.I havenīt told my family because I think it would be selfish to bother them and worry them just to receive some support from them.I have always gone alone to the hospital, arranged all the paperwork for the social security on my own without knowing were to start, etc.Miserable, shallow and depressed people people in these forums have given me the strengh I needed to do all this. People in these forums might not be rich, famous or hollywood stars, but they are all heroes for me.And I am still blonde, beautiful and happy!

I must really be missing it then- because I just still don't see any such grand and sweeping erroneous and hurtful statements being made in this thread. It just seems like sentences are being picked apart word by word and words letter by letter to make mountains out of mole hills.

Good grief. Nobody expects anybody to be happy all the time or to not share about very real issues. Iggy, I mean no offense at all, but it still reads to me like you are reading far, far too much into this. Almost like you are actively trying to take something personally that isn't, and redirect this thread in a direction it was not intented to go. It seems crystal clear to me that it was primarily intended to ask:

1. What is your personal take on how (if at all) depression has effected you in terms of HIV pre or post diagnosis?

and

2. Do you think there might also be neurological consequences of HIV and/or meds that are as yet not being properly addressed?

Sometimes (though not always) depression can result in people demonstrating behaviors of being angry/irritable/antagonistic. I've heard that posited many places before here. Let's have it out right now so we can move on from this that is apparently a great sticking point for you: Is there anyone here who has somehow forgotten that this is a site for people affected by HIV? Is there anyone here who does not feel that this site should be a place where people can voice serious issues of a personal nature? Anyone?

UPDATED TO SAY: Sometimes people just make a statement in an off-handed way. Not every statement merits being pulled up under a microscope.

"While not judging either group and accepting that there is crossover, it is apparent that the latter group is by nature more, shall we say, sociable and subsequently less apt to fully appreciate the motivations and reasons behind the seriousness and somber nature of the former group." - Iggy.

The reason I am part of the latter group is because I don't want to make HIV my only focus in life. I have made many friends on here and I like hearing about their lives (HIV or not). Me and my collegues in the "latter" group also live with the same things our more serious brothers and sisters do. I do appreciate their motivations and I am glad they are here to help keep the balance in the forums. However, it's nice to come in here and be able to talk to someone about life without being treated like I'm going to break. I can still talk about HIV but it doesn't have to be the main focus like it seems to be with family or friends who know my status. I enjoy the good company and advice. Upbeat or not.

Just my two cents.

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"I married a German. Every night I dress up as Poland and he invades me. "-Bette Midler

dish, that is the way I am. I never sat around and always discussed being gay. I was open about it, but it was nothing really to talk about. I've always had more straight friends then gay friends. When I tested positive, it wasn't something that I always sit and talked about. There are to many other things going on with my life besides being advance HIV positive. Hell, I don't like to hear someone harp on all their ailments nor do I think they would want to hear me harping on mine. This is only a small part of my life, not my whole life.

I agree with Swede Dish and Rapid Rod, in that HIV is not the main focus of my existence. If I let it be, I would feel depressed and cranky too.

Granted, when someone is having trouble dealing with something, it's good if others can empathize, but not to the point of feeding self-pity. That's a sure path to needless misery on top of pain. Again, it solves nothing, and I won't allow anyone to drag me down just so they won't feel alone in their problems. I say, rise up and deal with the root causes and make the changes needed.

I have bad days too, but I certainly wouldn't take them out on people on the Internet. I don't know any self-respecting / other-respecting adult who would.