Wednesday, May 10, 2006

The Devil You Know (Part Two)

Satanic Ritual Abuse and occult crime negate themselves for many progressives who might otherwise now be inclined to believe the worst of Earthly Powers. This is because the charges are a challenge to secularist and reductionist assumptions, and come cloaked in layers of ridicule and the seeming superstitions of the reactionary right, against which they have struggling all their political lives.

Or let me break it down this way. As a youth I had a fundamentalist conversion experience from which I spent the next ten years recovering. (It's told, as a lie, in my novelAnxious Gravity.) I was already of the left, and a conservative faith was not an easy graft, with presumptions of ideology always in my face. But the inner tensions were worse, and eventually things just blew apart. Recovery for me meant jettisoning much of the conceptual and cultural ballast of my faith in order to save its largely ineffable core.

Before I knew any better, "Satanic Ritual Abuse" sounded like a scratchy record from my past that I'd left in my parents' basement when I moved out. It was the ghost of an abandoned paradigm: the fear of a backward-masked planet. But I kept reading, until finally I knew something worse. Worse than the devil I'd known, who had sensational publicists in "anti-cult crusader" Bob Larson and "former high priest" Mike Warnke.

On his ministry broadcasts Larson regularly works up a nice head of froth over satanism, but privately he's on friendly terms with frequent guests, including satanist and esoteric fascist Boyd Rice. There's a fascinating interview with Rice here that presents a window on their relationship. Asked whether he thinks Larson is a "repressed Satanist" Rice replies enthusiastically "That's what I'm always telling him! I'm always saying, 'Bob, you're Satanic, you're just presenting it in a convoluted way, because you're going on the air and taking advantage of these weak, confused people, and they're giving you their money.'" Meanwhile, Warnke is a manic preacher and "America's number one Christian Comedian" who claims to have led a murderous Satanic cult of 1,500 members in the mid-60s, yet is almost certainly an abusive and pathological fraud.

The evangelists found a perfect foil in Anton LaVey, who could pass the bucket with the best of them, and obligingly inhabited the caricature of the devil-on-earth right down to the plastic horns and cat suit. But better the devil you know, because this devil whom both sides pimped was little more than a Halloween spook, and a figure of titilation at a safe distance for sheltered Christians who liked to receive their vicarious kicks under cover of "testimony."

I expect, for many, Satanic Ritual Abuse is not a serious subject because the devil they know is not a serious figure. Unlike the devil they don't.

There are at least 2,635 place names in America sharing the words Devil, Diablo or Diabla. Loren Coleman writes that "Europeans coming to America were quite taken with the sinister experiences they had or they would hear about from the Native Americans already here, and these colonists started giving the name Devil to all the locations that were tied to unexplainable phenomena." Places like South Dakota's Hill of the Little Devils, about which Lewis and Clark were told by plains Indians was inhabited by "midgets" who would kill anyone who approached their "spirit mound." (Clark wrote that the Omahas, Otoes, and Sioux were so afraid that "no Consideration is Suffecient to induce them to apporach the hill"); Oklahoma's Devil's Promenade, where generations of glowing, orange orbs have been observed; the barren circle of North Carolina's Devil's Tramping Ground; and the Devil's Highway, Route 666, which links skinwalker accounts to more modern American mytholgies of Roswell and the Trinity atomic blast.

An American folly has always been the thought that the nation resides in a "New World." Large numbers of immigrants were drawn to the novelty of America by the prospect of shedding the superstitions of the Old, but Europeans also found ancient wild things of spirit that had not yet been domesticated by generations of dogma and forgetfulness. And because we are also spirit and not altogether perfect and wise, they found perfect and ignorant hosts.

It's been said that Bush's backwash base would still support him even if he ate a baby on television. But he does effectively just that everytime he praises the bloody course of his war which has already claimed a quarter million innocent lives. He's feeding something older than America, a parasitical demon which is also devouring the host, whether he knows it or not.

There is a Satanic criminal underground, trading in flesh and guns and drugs, but there is another network underlying it and unconcious of itself. The ritual child abuse of Ponchatoula's Hosannah Church appears unconnected to a broader conspiracy, so how did these seemingly unsophisticated, small-town parishioners come to adopt an ancient, secret tradition of sex magick? Ritual abuse happens in churches in part because that's where ritual happens, and like it or not, humanity appears hardwired for ritual.

When Prescott Bush robbed Geronimo's grave and carried his skull home to Yale as a trophy, was he fully conscious of partaking in a universal warrior cult that finds power in the remains of the worthy dead?

"America is a nation of prayer," said Prescott's grandson last Thursday, asking Americans to "humbly recognize our continued dependence on divine Providence." Someone better acquainted with America said "that god you been prayin' to is gonna give ya back what you're wishin' on someone else."

76 Comments:

well..these guys are bit past freaky, how about insane? its not pretty either.

anyway i just wanted to show you this, it came into my head while i was watching that show prisonbreak on fox:

'will the conscious speak today or will it stay as silent as ever?'

i thinks its important to ask. and it has alot to do with the obscene and sadistic acts humans act upon other humans that jeff reveals to us again and again..

to jeff, i don't know if your suggesting there's a dark lord and if you are i think its wrong. if i've learned anything in this life, its the fact that anything can happen. there is no natural law preventing sodomy of children, to prevent torture, murder or bleeding. its simply disgusting i know but i would suggest because there is nothing to stop these horrible things, no natural law, that what these horrid things we humans do to each other has more to do with each individuals concsiousness than being possessed by the devil.

or to more precisely say it 'these are the problems of a highly conscious existence'. in the end we are responsible to ourselves for what we do. hunmand have in them great potential, the PTB work to stunt that potential to maintain control. on a side note, time is the enemy more than death is.

The beauty of the world is something I would have agreed with as a child. As a child I stood, very much loved, protected, and in awe of this place. No longer. The child in me is afraid that the adult I have become can no longer protect me (or my children)from the evils that have been let loose in the world. Jeff I'm so sorry that you know so much about this. I'm just so sorry. You seem to have evolved into a very solid and very talented adult. I have seen a few survivors who were left "basket cases". Many Christian fundamentalists would never believe this is happening. They are the same folks that are clueless to the destruction of America as we know it.

And because we are also spirit and not altogether perfect and wise, they found perfect and ignorant hosts... He's feeding something older than America, a parasitical demon which is also devouring the host ...

Here is an excerpt from Derrick Jensen's not-yet-published book Possession. A small passage, after Jensen recounts several (biologically documented) examples of parasites that are able to alter the behavior of their hosts in ways that are destructive to the host but advantageous to the parasite:

He continued, “I wonder if civilization could be the direct result of one or more behavior-altering parasites. Perhaps a parasite that benefits from the dense, concentrated populations of cities with their immuno-suppressed hosts. Reading from the very good book Parasite Rex that the ‘gruesome trypanosomes that cause sleeping sickness had nearly been routed from Sudan when the country’s civil war began: now they’re back,’ I can’t help but wonder if those same parasites that benefit from the conditions of war might actually cause those conditions as well: they would certainly benefit from a large, growing, sick population which invades adjacent lands and expands the range of the parasite.”

My personal experiences suggest that there is a spirit world, one that is consistent with what Jeff describes. However, I believe that the spirit world is synonymous with this world, or rather this material world is contained within a larger more mysterious world, hints of whose workings are given by clues such as quantum entanglement and theories about the holographic universe.

So, it's interesting to think about how physical parasites may be agents of spiritual parasites. As we've been discussing, we humans only think we're in charge.

Continuing from my 9:44 post.... just to be the devil's advocate for a moment.

The full Jensen passage to which I linked suggests that, from a larger perspective, the behavior-altering parasites he describes play an important ecological regulatory function: for example, one parasite insures that the population of its fish hosts is kept in check while its bird hosts have enough to eat.

Much has been made here at this site, in a fearful tone, about "culling the human herd". But given that we've overrun the planet, and that our current population is unsupportable without rapidly dwindling petrochemical resources (since, e.g., the green revolution depends on hydrocarbon-based fertilizers), it would seem that some form of culling is necessary.

It would be nice if culling could be accomplished by voluntary birth control. (And in fact, though I'm too lazy to look up a reference, IIRC there is some evidence that the incidence of homosexuality in lab animals naturally increases with population density.) But we don't seem to be doing this very well. So it would seem that culling in the form of epidemics or war could be the only way to achieve population reduction.

So -- and I present this only as a point for discussion -- perhaps our murderous monsters are actually serving a larger ecologically beneficial role?

[Before you attack me as a satanist troll, let me say that I don't find any of this very palatable, and I'm presenting it only to see what people think about it.]

Jeff, that fundamentalist "experience" you allude to---did it have anything to do with mormonism?

Just asking because topics relating to that sect have come up now and again on your website, and I keep expecting to see more. Some of what you regularly talk about converges with things mormon here and there.

I think perhaps I see now why much of what you write, Jeff, click with me in a very personal way. Your account of your bout of fundamentalism is almost identical to my own (though I was born into it). I'm curious to hear wether it was, indeed, 'Mormonism' (members of the church prefer Latter Day Saints or LDS as a moniker), as that was the tradition I came up in.

"I was already of the left, and a conservative faith was not an easy graft, with presumptions of ideology always in my face. But the inner tensions were worse, and eventually things just blew apart. Recovery for me meant jettisoning much of the conceptual and cultural ballast of my faith in order to save its largely ineffable core."

With the exception that my lefty leanings being something which developed later, that could very well be me you're talking about. I was always uncomfortable with the literalism of the whole thing, and eventually, there were just too many contradictions between my 'faith' and my actual experience of the world, and something had to give.

I have to admit, somewhat uncomfortably, that I agree with much of what Boyd Rice has to say about folks like Mr. Larson (and, in the interview you linked to, about Sharon Tate's Mother). Who's the real Satanist, the one who admits it, or the one who lies about the master they serve, even if they're lying to themselves as much as to anyone esle?

While I'm not sure I'm convinced about there being an actual, literal Satan out (or in here?), there most certainly is a metaphorical one. And metaphors do seem to take on a life of their own, don't they.

A bit off topic, but not really. Here's a brief rundown of my heritage of conspiracy. I've often felt that, given all the dots, I should have had an abduction experience or been ritualy tortured by now, but, alas, my life has been relativly free of paranormal experience:

-Born on the 23rd (too bad it was June, and not July)-Raised in an LDS (Mormon) houshold-Father (an LDS Bishop) died in a small plane accident-Jewish stepfather, who also happens to be a Mason and Shriner (got free tickets to the circus)-Experience with LSD (funny, how close that is the LDS), mushrooms, etc.-Fascination with UFO's (from a young age- did a school project on them in the 5th grade), ritual magic and the occult-Heavy into environmental studies in college (a favorite whipping boy of righty conspiracists)-Recent dabbling in the neo-pagan scene

One thing that I'd be curious to hear your take on is the connection between "black" occultism and the smarmier elements of the evangelical movement. The fact that the whole evangelical movement in America has fascist undertones, and the long and well-understood link between fascism and black magick should give one pause.

I wonder if they checked that god they be prayin' to for horns and cloven hooves?

1: thats a very very interesting theory anon 9:44. it makes a lot of sense.

2: also i meant to say something to effect of the metaphor of satan is very real. there is a category of events and actons i'd declare to be satanic, i.e. fascist.

3: on the topic of christian evengalism. i was listening to alex jones on his radio show (sorry if i seem to note him too often, but he is afterall our modern day morpheus re: the matrix.) and what he was saying is how the CIA worked to infiltrate various churchs and kind of jump started the evengalism movement. it was intended to high jack christianity and any helpful benefits it garners to be negated by pushing this obsession on eschatology, israel and world government. and look who runs the show pat robertson, jerry falwell and the kind face billy graham (my oh my what a piece of work his son is.) and so thusly very much fascist in tone.

Well, interesting to note that there is a religious conversion in your past, Jeff. That was doubly interesting since I share this with you... By the way, I am the 'Anonymous' poster that reported about the Boston Church/Kip Mc Kean cult a while ago.

I think the satanic abuse / evangelical christianity / fascist resurgence that are so often described and extensively linked on Rigorous Intuition actually contain one very important common ingredient: obedience.

Think about it for a second.

Satanic abuse is performed on children that are often too young to know how to disobey adults, especially adults of their own families.

Evangelical Christianity -- or, really, any type of fundamentalist religion -- is based on total and complete obedience to the "Word of God". This Word of God, in turn, is usually explained and/or interpreted and/or mediated by a leadership of "wise and spiritual men".

Finally, Fascism is based on the idea that the state demands total and complete obedience of its subjects. Dissent or contestation are not to be tolerated, with, of course, a leader at the very top.

Ultimately, it boils down to a question of obedience. Obedience to adults, to spiritual leaders, to state leaders. The individual, the personality, must submit to the will and to the wisdom of others.

Of course, this means that the people at the top, the adult, the spiritual leaders, etc have ALL the power. Including the power to abuse, degrade and ultimately destroy individuals and/or whole communities. And, not surprisingly, they often choose to use that power, for their own sexual gratification, or to indulge in their own power trips.

Again, let's go back in history. Fascists and Nazis had their death chambers, their eugenics programs, their women reduced to reproduction machines. Evangelical Christianity -- including the Catholic Church -- has its share of sexual abuse, of corruption and graft (and ALL religions are guilty of this, of course). And satanic abuse is, of course, essentially the rawest abuse of power you can imagine ("Power Corrupts and Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely", etc).

As the saying goes, there is one small step between Genius and Madness... If we are all connected, through some sort of holographic / neural / spiritual / genetic network (a frequent subtext of your blog), it's a natural step to connect these different ideologies because they are linked by power (for "them") and obedience (for the rest of us).

Being an individual, one capable of critical thought, one capable of independance, is the only thing that stands between us and the Brave New World that others want to create. And being informed, being able to make connections is a way to nourish this individuality, to cultivate our critical mind and to nourish our inner independance.

One thing that just strikes me, in what I just wrote, is that sexual "norms", and the associated perversions, are also strong links between these ideologies.

Homosexuality, and sexual deviancy, are both flaunted and repressed. Repressed because sexual frustration is a tool to obtain more obedience. Flaunted, because having sexual intercourse -- for instance, with same-sex minors, often described in satanic abuse -- is proof, to the people that demand obedience, that normal rules do not apply to "them" (the rulers), while they apply to us (the people).

Again, many nazis were overt (or closeted) homosexuals, and many fascists indulged in homosexual sex and sexual deviancy with prisoners and death camp inmates.

Many evangelical christians have also been "outed" as homosexuals, not to mention the strong homosexual and sexually deviant streaks in the Catholic Church.

Finally, homosexual sex and child abuse are omnipresent in stories of satanic abuse, aren't they? And the sacking of Porter Goss may have something to do with male prostitution and wider accusations of corruption.

So, obedience and power. Sexual norms and morality set from above and openly flouted by the same people are strong links between ideologies who may appear, at first glance, to be totally different.

Please note that I am not again any religion. I am against the use and abuse of religion by liars and frauds.

Please note also that I am indifferent when it comes to homosexuality. I am against the condemnation -- and exploitation -- of people for something as trivial as sexual preferences, while hypocrisy reigns in the upper reaches of power.

Hello. I understand the banning of DDT has depopulated the earth of it's humans. The chemical additives and lack of vital vitamins in our food and water are proven to cause mass death. Surgeons murder a lot of people in the world. The lack of food and medicine in certain countries do a tremendous amount of life deprivation. Diseases and viruses kill a lot of people. Accidents, crashes, and falls take a lot of peoples lives. Drugs, alcohol and abortions as well.

The murderous monsters being beneficial? That's a good question. History shows that these monsters have an ability to get us followers to kill for them. I guess if we can be manipulated to consider killing for their causes then these wars must happen. Not enough people boycott their leadership. The monsters seem to be able to get us followers to kill for them. I do not think that these wars benefit the environment though. Especially in our century. Too much damage caused by the weaponry.

Yeah the Native Americans and their military defences agaisnt the invading Europeans was one of the main reasons why the new pioneers of the 1600's and 1700's transported the Africans to the New World. Most of the Indians refused to be enslaved by the Whiteman. United States, the land shadowing with wings, people are parasites. We the people have sucked this land of opportunity dry. All the moral ideals that this land and people represented have been betrayed.

Now US soldiers in Iraq and elsewhere are killing and being killed. These young soldiers are not fighting for freedom. They are fighting for their lives and the ones that come home intact have an excellent resume they can present to any prospective employer. This is also ritualistic. Which I think is highly Satanic. Not too embarassing for the fathers in USA?

Why pray to God in condemnation of individuals? In our federal city in the Dirksen building that represents the writting up of the Bill Of Rights we have Rev. Sun Moon declared God. This man was declared God, the Christian God. Our rights and freedoms will slowly erode as they always have here in USA. Our leaders do not care about us. They care about the global management system. All nations do now.

The house here was cleaned up of the haunting demons of the past. Good decent freedom loving Americans cleaned house. But the demons returned with an extraordinary amount of friends. These workers of iniquity never stop until they get the job done. If they are working for the global management system the angel of light wants all humans to acknowledge that he is righteous. When more people do this we will see a lot more death and tyranny. All in the name of peace.

Yeah Jeff labeling and assuming the worst about people is a lousy way to live. But I don't think condemning criminal and immoral behavior is evil. It's people's behavior and principles that I may wrestle with not their individuality. We all do what we hate to do. This I believe is what many people think is unique about themselves. But the reality is that this is actually universal.

I'm certain this has been pointed out before plenty of times, but it can't hurt to point it out again.

The "reward" of happiness in the next life in return for suffering in this life serves the needs of the power elites. When people are looking for contentment and happiness in the next life as a reward for suffering in this life, they stop looking for contentment and happiness in this life, and accept their wretched situation in this world.

The biggest nightmare of the power elites is for the people of the world to start expecting contentment and happiness in this life in this world.

I fear christians (small c) until I get to know them. Most are hypocritical, judgemental, holier-than-thou, dangerous and cruel. I was raised up in a critical environment due to this very issue. Never good enough, never appropriate enough. I found answers in M. Scott Peck's book, People of the Lie. A reviewer wrote,

'"Evil is the exercise of power, the imposing of one's will upon others by overt or covert coercion". "The core of evil is ego-centricity, whereby others are sacrificed rather than the ego of the individual." These words and the following analysis that Scott Peck gives us into the world of evil are sorely needed now in America. At the heart of our political and moral meltdown is the force of evil. According to Dr. Peck ego-centric persons are utterly dedicated to preserving their self-serving image. They cultivate an image of being good, right, God-fearing citizens. They specialize in self-deceit and thus are People of the Lie. Scott Peck is best known for his famed book The Road Less Traveled where Peck argues that there is a link between personal growth, spirituality, and basic mental health. In People of the Lie Scott Peck sees evil as the antithesis to the very goodness and life that normal, healthy people seek. He writes this book to raise the awareness that evil exists as an entity and force in the world and calls his readers to take evil far more seriously.'

I wrote in a previous post that I live in the town where Susan Polk's trial is taking place and where her defense lawyer's wife (Pamela Vitale Horowitz) was murdered by a teen who carved a ritual-like symbol into her back. Obvious pagan ritual sites exist in the vicinity and Mt. Diablo is our local vista point.

Those who advocate the "culling" or Eugenically controlled genocide, in the name of a solution to the state sponsored myth of "overpopulation" are welcome at any time to kill themselves and sterilize their loved ones to assist reaching this goal. Often this couched, racist pathology is advanced by those with delusions of "God-like" authority over everyone and everything (read: domination & consolidation of resources) on the planet. The latest jackass to mouth this globalist crap is the morally bankrupt Professor Pianka. He stated that 90% of the world's population needs to die, and an airborne Ebola would be an ideal way to achieve it. When he and others of his degenerate ilk advocate this, they are not talking about themselves or their collegues and families. They mean those designated by Henry Kissinger and Zbigniew Brzezinski as "useless eaters".

Not uncoincidentally, Pianka raises livestock in the form of bison in his spare time. The name of his lead herd bull... Lucifer.

Mina: Thanks for the pointer on the Dream Mine. I hadn't run across that yet. like I said, though I left the Mormon faith behind years ago, it's only recently that I've started looking into some of the high-wierdness that surrounds the religion, and history that hasn't gotten the LDS stamp of approval. This coincides a bit with my closest sister having recently 'rejoined the fold' after many years as an 'inactive member' (another interesting tidbit of LDS terminology).

Zacharius: Thaks for pointing to the Saturn myth to explain the current situation, re: the cannibalization of new generation. When you shake off the literalism, mythology has a lot of truth to tell.

A bit of stream-of-consciousness here:Interesting that Saturday (Saturn's Day) also happens to coincide with the traditional Sabath in Hebrew culture. In the Saturn myth, he's eventually deposed by Jupiter. And I seem to recall some interesting things about Jupiter being linked to Lucifer, in regard to being a potential second-sun (or son), as per Arthur Clarke's 2010, and the plans of certain luciferian elements to make that fantasy a reality....

The Obedience connection is so spot on! It hit me between the eyes. I have family members who are Mormons and NONE of them will listen to me about the NWO, Bush, any of it. And the funny thing is "they" think I'm nuts. The obedience angle hit on several levels all at once, as I'm a counselor also. I was married for 20 years to a literal fundamentalist. My beloved son is just like him. So I have seen this play out in so many ways. And thanks to the poster who brought up Peck. I read both of his books years ago and, need a refresher. I believe pure evil is real in all it's many manifestations, forces, entities, powers, etc. They call me the free thinker in this family. Listening to talk radio (I think Greg's Investigative Journal on www.RBNLive.com) the speaker said there is usually one in the family to catch on. I guess that would be me. He also said don't force it on them - the truth that is. So that left me wondering, well just how in the heck are we going to wake all these obedient folks up?

I've always been a skeptic on Satanic Ritual Abuse because there is never any hard evidence. "Repressed memories" but no dead babies.Child molesting uncles get caught but rings of satanic molesters never do.

I agree with you that Eugenics and any program that explicitly calls for culling is politically suspect, especially because of power asymmetries.

Nevertheless, the human population is radically out-of-balance with what can sustainably be supported. Or at least, it appears that way, but I'm open to seeing evidence (i.e. not wishful thinking) that suggests otherwise.

I have no solutions and I am as much an opponent of "herd culling" by elites as anybody here. I'm just trying to explore the larger metaphysical/philosophical implications of what we are calling "evil" here.

(As a side note, I have no children and probably never will due to personal circumstances, so I'm doing my part at population reduction.)

BELIEVING that God created the universe in six days is a form of superstitious paganism, the Vatican astronomer Guy Consolmagno claimed yesterday.

Brother Consolmagno, who works in a Vatican observatory in Arizona and as curator of the Vatican meteorite collection in Italy, said a "destructive myth" had developed in modern society that religion and science were competing ideologies.

He described creationism, whose supporters want it taught in schools alongside evolution, as a "kind of paganism" because it harked back to the days of "nature gods" who were responsible for natural events.

Brother Consolmagno argued that the Christian God was a supernatural one, a belief that had led the clergy in the past to become involved in science to seek natural reasons for phenomena such as thunder and lightning, which had been previously attributed to vengeful gods. "Knowledge is dangerous, but so is ignorance. That's why science and religion need to talk to each other," he said.

"Religion needs science to keep it away from superstition and keep it close to reality, to protect it from creationism, which at the end of the day is a kind of paganism - it's turning God into a nature god. And science needs religion in order to have a conscience, to know that, just because something is possible, it may not be a good thing to do."

& this from Vallee's Dimensions which I'm currently re-reading:

"The most interesting theory put forth by Evans-Wentz is a further development of the observation that ancient gods are continued under new names as myths evolve from civilization to civilization. Could it be, he asked, that every land has its own psychic and telluric forces, contributing to the appearence of certain spirit entities, regarded by human beings as gods and goddesses? Could the parallelism between Mormonism and ancient Indian beliefs be an example of such a process?Frank Waters had pointed out before Evan-Wentz that the early white settlers in America had become very closely Indian in spirit and feeling. He writes in Masked Gods:

"They had confronted here that great psychic entity which was the spirit-of-place, the heart of a new continent. It shattered them completely. But each succumbed in a different way."

The vision of God and Jesus experienced by Joseph Smith, the founder of the Church of Latter-Day Saints, was in fact, Evans-Wentz believes, a vision of the Shining Beings(known in other parts of the world as Devas). These Shining Beings appeared to Indians during secret rituals performed on high places or sacred mountains."

I've always found it interesting that the American propaganda machine has always been so successful in layering this countrys incredibly bloody history with that thin veneer of freedom truth & justice.People, for the most part, really do believe that we're the good guys, irregardless of the amount of evidence that shows otherwise.

Maybe the Devil's biggest trick wasn't only convincing us that he didn't exist but also convincing us that our soft western lifestyle is the result of 'God's blessings' rather than our our wholehearted embracing of the evil that sits at the heart of the America dream.

I don't think there's anything special or atypical about Pianka's genocidal fantasies about having 90% of the human population die of ebola. Genocide fantasies are actually quite common. Think about the Left Behind books for example.

I think there's a connection between genocide fantasies and idealism. An idealist is someone who is in love with an ego-centered image of how they think the world should look rather than how the world really is. As such, they live in a kind of permanent agony. The world just stubbornly refuses to behave the way it simply must!

Thus, they tend to fantasize about extreme events, often negative, that will bring the world into submission to their idealistic fantasy. Genocide is a common one.

Pianka belongs to the church of modern Green extremism, but many other members of many other churches share similar fantasies.

Jeff, this post touches upon something that I've believed for a very long time: The actual land upon which the USA sits has exerted its own particular paranormal influence on human inhabitants. As if you are extending the concept of a haunted house, for example, beyond the walls of the house to encompass a nation, or a region---A physical landscape, a particular geography inhabited by supra human forces or "spirits" that impact our thought processes, perception and behavior.

I like to think of the stories my Dad would tell about owning land on the Big Island in Hawaii back in the 1960s-1907s. My dad has often remarked that Hawaii, which is composed of relatively young (in terms of the earth's history) islands, had a very raw energy that obviously permeates the humans living there. At that time, one of his jobs was to work as a waiter at the luaus hosted by local resorts. My dad said that on the nights with a full moon, it was guaranteed that tourists would go wild at the luaus. He said that it was a remarkable phenomenon----Even the most conservative, inhibiated tourists would get really worked up on full moon nights. My dad said that there were some nights, staying alone at the house on his land, that he would feel as though something was closing in on him from the trees outside that made him feel like a usurper, a trespasser----he said it was a very strong feeling.

Going to a new geographic location is very much like moving into a new house----The first week or so is spent dealing with all the strange "vibes" or dreams that you encounter as you are settling in a new space-----If one carries real, credible authority within the paranormal world (By "authority," I mean a consistently calm, balanced and open mind), they will eventually carve their niche in that location and flourish. But if one inhabits a physical space in a manner that threatens and disturbs the paranormal world related to that space, they will be altered or driven away in an "evil" manner.

"Evil" forces can be better described as forces that have been disturbed from their equilibrium and are attempting to correct some imbalance--------whether those corrections are perceived as right or wrong is ultimately irrelevant as some type of correction must inevitably occur.

Karma is a bitch and that is something that the United States will learn from the physical land it exploits and the memories of the people and cultures that this government has systematically decimated throughout history.

In regard to the 'culling' or genocide fantasies, I'm a bit torn. I instinctively recoil from those that propose any kind of agenda that puposfully enacts a program of 'culling'. However, I think that a rational examination of the current human trajectory leads to the uncomfortable conclusion that we're dangerously close to the ecological tipping point where a purposfully directed depopulation will become irrelevant.

I have always noticed this. Every place, city, region, etc. has a distinctive "feel" that seems to permeate it. I suspect that some of this is aesthetic, but some of it certainly goes beyond.

Of particular note is the "feel" of the two main technology/research centers of the united states: the San Francisco Bay area and the Massachusetts Bay area (Boston, Cambridge, etc.). Both of these places have a very distinct and very oddly... almost "dark" or "powerful" feel to them. I'm not sure if "dark" is the right word since I'm not necessarily saying it's evil... you get the idea.

"Mormonism is an interesting study, though, as something of an American Masonic UFO cult. There are a lot of convergences there."

Wow. UFOs? Masons? I want more, my friend.

I grew up in the Southwest where I went to school alongside Mormons and had many a Mormon neighbor. I remember in the 1980s there was a big push by the church to recruit people of color to try to "correct" their exculsive, white-bread image. I was constantly assailed by these people, even though I wasn't even an adult. Back then I thought it was a freakish cult and I still do. I want to hear more about the UFO/Mason connection, though (Please, Jeff, you know you are my favorito).

About the "people of color" problem and Mormonism, many people do not know that a non-white person was not able to participate fully in the church until 1978 when the Prophet, Seer and Revelator (also known more benignly as the "Church President") had a revelation directly from God stating that non-whites were ready to be accepted fully into the fold. Pre-1978 I knew a Native American boy whose family converted to Mormonism who told me he was a Mormon but could not enter the Temple and could never attain the priesthood because of his race. I knew the same "you are not entirely welcome in our church" applied to me at the time as well, as a person of color. As I mentioned, all this changed in the '80s when minorities became hot items and I was recruited to death. You can't even imagine the run-ins I had with these people.

I keep thinking about that Indian boy who was a Mormon in the '70s. Imagine being told you could join a group but you're just not good enough to be a real member. What did this do to the boy's self esteem and psyche? If this isn't a subtle sort of ritual abuse, I don't know what is.

For some reason, this post, and your most recent one regarding same, remind me of the Kenneth Junior French murders that occured near Fort Bragg (Fayetteville), NC at Luigi's Restaurant back in 1993...

What I find weird is: 1. The proximity to Fort Bragg, 2. French's admission in testiony that the morning of the day of the murder, he had been watching Clint Eastwood's "The Unforgiven", and 3. the fact he "selected" Luigi's restaurant, owned by the Parrous and Manis families (big Republican supporters)....

BamaBecky, How do we talk to the people who are clueless? Just reading the Washington Post for decades where they would have some articles on the horrors going on in South America, though I don't remember if they connected GHW Bush, made it easier to believe the fuller horrors written about on the internet.

I was puzzled when heard people saying "Why do they hate us?" just after 911 because I remembered articles about the installation of the Shah of Iran and his torture gulags supported by the US government but did not keep the articles and did not read books on politics so had no reference material to give people.

Even those from the UK and Hungary and Brazil as well as Ohio have objected to my having political material on my gymnastics photo sequences art page and say they are not interested in "propaganda" or "conspiracy theories" and that bush should be respected even though they don't like him because he was an "elected" leader.

Was very disappointed to see a photo of bush on Joni Erickkson Tada's site. I admired her a great deal when I used to see her speak on religious TV shows and some of her books and she probably is dependent on her promoting bush to help the handicapped and receive faith-based initiative funds, don't know I saw that photo of bush which I think is the same on on the White House website and could not read anymore.

I have known Christians who were good people and did more than I ever have to help the poor and who support bush but they never want to talk about politics unless it is abortion or gay-bashing.

It is a mystery since Jesus did warn that the anti-Christ would be so convincing that he would deceive "if it were possible, the very elect."

I think TV has a lot to do with it since my mother supports bush though was always a luke-warm democrat and was shocked when she said when bush was on smooching with Prince Bandar, that "they just did that, they made it look like that." which supports the dead baby theory. Even with film showing the sickening kissing between bush and the prince for quite a while, she denied that it was true.

I agree with Jeff that it is very hard being a leftist Christian in this culture but just reading the Bible, it is very obvious that the things Jesus requires in regard to treating "the least of these" is closer to the liberal agenda than the republican though the democrats, most, are not much different than the republicans when it comes to helping the worker or the poor and vulnerable.

Trying to think of a way to write Joni and ask how she can support bush and recommend a few sites but can't think of any that are mild enough not to scare people away who are not aware of the crimes of the US government for decades and the complicity of the bush family in these crimes against humanity.

I would be interested in a link to who witnessed bush, sr and maybe kissinger's horrific nazi remarks about "useless eaters" and also HK's statement that "soldiers are no more than dumb animals to be used by the state for their ends." I believe they said it and finally someone mentioned with the bush sr. quote "If the American people knew what we bushes had done to them, they would string us up the the nearest lamppost." was said to longtime White House correspondent Sarah McLellan. Don't doubt that they said it but would be good to have a link, when people don't believe the horrors these nazis have done and said.

Very good point about telling those who want to reduce the population to go first along with their families.I saw Kissenger's name on a war criminal list a while back and have read that bush sr. is also on list with his crimes against the Vietnamese and South Americans. Does anyone know how to find this list. Read that Kissenger had to hurry out of France a few years ago because the police were coming to question him about these crimes, but HK obviously has some friends in the French or International police because he was able to make it out of his hotel room and France. No wonder junior hates the French.

There is an Oskar Werner forum somewhere on the web and in reading about his life and real experiences with the Nazis both he and Simone Signoret are said to have been anti-Fascists and I wonder what work they did to this end.

Their performances in Ship of Fools were so excellent and memorable esp. Werner's character saying "She looked into the garbage dump, she did something about it." about the Contessa and her work with the poor in Spain and subsequent drug addictions to deal with all the suffering she saw and tried to help.

Jeff, if you haven't yet, you might want to give some of Leslie Marmon Silko's work a read...particularly "Almanac of the Dead" (it gets my vote as one of the great American novels). Also, perhaps you'd find Eduardo Duran's "Buddha in Redface" an interesting read as well.

Hey...Hilda Martinez! You said:

"Imagine being told you could join a group but you're just not good enough to be a real member."

Don't you think that just about describes reality for the majority of us minorities?

I suspect Mel Gibson, of all people, is now someone who 'gets it' with respect to the lurking vibe in the Americas: his upcoming movie about the fall of one of the mesoamerican empires (I believe it's the aztecs) gives the distinct impression of conveying not perhaps a historically accurate retelling but every inch of the deep evil permeating the noosphere of the american megacontinent.

I can say this much: having been all around the megacontinent there's not a place that feels free of some ominous spiritual smoke in the air. Maybe it's everywhere, but it was noticeable everywhere, only varying in details not in overall vibe.

Yes, you are right, but I think now we can extend that to all Americans. We are told we can participate, that we have a voice, that we are invited to the party, but we are just little kids with our noses pressed up against the glass.

What struck me with my Mormon/Native Boy example is that everything was so out in the open and blatant: "Welcome to our church, you are brown and not good enough." This was doctrine, part of ritual and part of the core of the church.

Growing up (mostly) in New Mexico (which has always been about 40% non-minority) I never felt excluded from anything because of my ethnicity except for being around the Mormons. Other white kids, Pueblo kids, Navajos, mixed race, etc., didn't care and we all got along. There seemed to be a certain type of diabolical racism coming from the goody-two-shoes LDS people, though. I can't even explain it adequately now, like a mask of goodness was on their faces. It's strange to think about it now as a middle-aged adult. I have goosebumps now.

The above publication by Kevin Coogan goes into extensive historical background and detail about 'aesthetic fascism,' or ‘counter culture fascism,’ and raises many interesting questions. After a quick glance at the Feral House catalogue, Adam Parfrey, founder of the controversial Feral House publishing company, seems to be overly obsessed with the Church of Satan (CoS) and related material, in my opinion. And oddly, any reference to Anton LaVey or CoS is notably absent in the ‘About Us’ section of the Feral House website.

According to Alex Constantine: Parfrey is Jewish, the son of a concentration camp internee who, due to his substandard diet, contracted sugar diabetes. Adam inherited the illness. He has no affection for Nazis because they have made him sick, and it is likely his life will be shortened as a result.

Adam Parfrey may perhaps (intentionally?) serve as an interesting case study or microcosm for a broader geopolitical 'dilemma.'

A side note: oraclesyndicate.org is a German site, so apparently there are some weird typos or translation problems and the like throughout the above linked document.

The ground in France and Belgium is saturated with blood," she said, with a thin veneer of calm over her words. "I know what that attracts. There are monsters in the earth of France, Reggie, and they are fattening and thriving on that slaughter.

- 'Phoenix and Ashes', a novel by Mercedes Lackey set during WWI

"So?" shrugged Charles Fredrik. "It wouldn't be the first time in history that people got too close to their enemy, would it?" He scowled through the narrow window. "Which is what I suspect happened to Jagiellon himself. Until he seized the throne from his father, there had been no indication that Jagiellon was anything more than another ambitious and bullying Lithuanian prince. Since then..."

"There's something dark about the man," admitted the Baron. "Even by the standards of the Lithuanian nobility."

"'Dark?'" snorted the Emperor. "Say better: 'black as night.'" He rubbed his heavy jaw thoughtfully. "Why does he wear that mask at all times, for instance? Simply to disguise the scars he claims to have received when he tried to fend off his father's assassins?"

Charles Fredrik turned away from the window and resumed his seat behind the heavy desk he used for working audiences. "I think not. I don't believe for an instant that Grand Duke Jagiellon is truly blind. Nor more than you. I think he keeps his eyes covered so no one can see the monster shining through them."

- 'Shadow of the Lion, a novel by Mercedes Lackey, Eric Flint & Dave Freer, set in alternate history 1500s

To properly give both *God and the *Devil their due, so to speak, we need to realize that it is only the limited and limiting beliefs we have wrapped around ourselves in creating those imaginary entities that actually gives them any appearance of power or sway over us.

It's only that quintessential ingredient of unwavering human faith, unquestioning belief, or the kind of distorted expectations and fearfull imaginings that unfortunately accompany them, that allows those entities to take on a palpable form of their own.

That is all that really makes them the quite serious and often even "deadly" forces that we find we must confront or reckon with.

Now good or evil, positive or negative, beneficial or harmfull, creative or destructive... are distinctions we seemingly have no trouble grasping when they are fully thrust upon us...hmmm? But who actually does the thrusting?

The real problem, were we to ever admit to it, arises when it comes to accepting, understanding, and taking responsibility for the very active role we all play in generating that thrust.

That is what we genuinely fear to face and must somehow rely on all our various gods and demons to explain away.

To hide the knowledge of what we ourselves have done and are doing to ourselves... from ourselves.

All human thoughts, ideas, and emotions have the ability to materialize and manifest themselves both in the substance and events of our experience if there is a sufficient degree of "intensity" behind them.

That is the true source of "the script" or story line that our human events follow.

That story line directs what we will physically create and do, both in bringing the story into being or in how we respond or react to it's unfolding.

It does not matter one whit what the source of that "intensity" is, be it the most unreasoning fears and vicious hatreds, or unbounded love of truth and honest virtues.

If the intensity behind it is felt strongly and widely enough it will invariably set the stage for all the events that force us to physically experience and confront whatever that original thought, idea, or emotion contains; regardless of how delightfull or damnably disasterous that experience happens to be.

This is a link to a book written by William Koetke. In it he describes how all of the empires of the past (and our present one as well) fell because of a lack of natural resources. He gives a chilling account on how we have taken everything from our soil and will only be able to feed our populations without pesticides and fertilizer (petrol based) if we radically change our diets and commit ourselves to permaculture.

I think we should take this metaphorically; we have abused our bodies and minds as well as the earth.

as a previous poster here said:

Evil" forces can be better described as forces that have been disturbed from their equilibrium and are attempting to correct some imbalance--------whether those corrections are perceived as right or wrong is ultimately irrelevant as some type of correction must inevitably occur.

This empire will fall because it's resources are getting scarcer everyday... physically, morally and spiritually..

There will be chaos and from that a new order... hopefully this one based on the principles of love and not fear.

Peace,Maniik

(Though not the black sheep in the family, some would definitely call me 'out there'sometimes.. and you know what ? I just might be.. ;-)

Today’s human population explosion itself may not be the justification for human culling, but rather be Nature’s response to widespread attempts at human culling over many centuries.

Despite many clever efforts at culling (great wars, famines, epidemics, etc), human population growth has only accelerated. It may not be a coincidence at all.

The more people that exist, the harder they are to control, and the higher the likelihood many will be born with the traits needed to help save humanity, or maybe those traits are in us all but dormant.

That is just a sample of why those arguing for human culling based on what they see and their mathematical calculations that the earth is running out of resources, are very arrogant as to their intellectual capabilities, mathematical or otherwise.

They’re also assuming the role of God, and let me just say it bluntly: they’re totally unqualified for the job. They’re in way over their heads.

Nature often works on deeper levels than we are conscious of, utilizing us for grander purposes without even our knowledge, and would itself impose subconscious new human behaviors spontaneously when and if overpopulation (or depopulation) became a threat to our survival.

Consider similar principles of Nature in DNA, taken advantage of in advanced fruit orchard practices, and probably many other places.

For example, in modern high-density cherry, peach, pear and other tree plantings around the world, trees are grown then are deliberately stunned into “near-death” (as the summer heat begins they are abruptly starved of most water and nutrition).

This deliberate "abuse" of the trees “deceives” their DNA into concluding they are dying by actually taking them through the actual dying process dragged out over several months, to trigger the appropriate pre-death behaviors designed for survival of the species, higher fruit production).

The objective is for the trees to go wild in producing one giant and last fruit crop, because each fruit has a seed in it and is a potential new tree that guarantees the survival of the species.

But when the tree is on the verge of shutting down for good, i.e., death, it is suddenly watered and fed properly, and brought back to life (“saved”) by human “gods” with agricultural degrees.

With winter approaching the tree then soon goes into dormancy, which due to the severe stress and shock the tree was under is much like a human’s coma after severe trauma, and actually saves it from death, but internally the DNA seeing it has not died figuratively thinks it has dodged a bullet and now programs itself to burst into life when the Spring comes and the tree again wakes up from dormancy.

This cycle is repeated year after year, and the tree and it’s roots always remain stunted and small (so much it has to be held up artificially and tied to posts or special trellises planted next to the tree, or any good wind or it’s own weight could knock it down for good).

Why is this brutality inflicted on these poor trees? To seize on a self-preservation process of Nature. You see, the small weak tree produces much less than one big healthy one, but 2,000 “abused” trees can be planted in one acre, and they produce much more than 180 strong ones do (the limit per acre in traditional plantings), much quicker, and for many more years. This spells big profits.

But leaving profits aside, see the connections to people? When the DNA perceives it’s survival is threatened, the impulse for certain behaviors to assure overall survival of the species are triggered (and if trees have them, certainly we must too), in this case, the urgent need for maximum reproduction as quickly as possible, by producing lots of fruit, each of which has a fertile seed which will fall to the ground and hopefully lead to a new tree.

Presumably human beings are able to acquire knowledge of threats to their species much more effectively than trees who don’t even have brains and can’t talk to each other. And presumably human DNA has all sorts of sophisticated defense mechanisms to suit the occasion. We don’t even need to understand them for them to work.

Lust excites energy and releases strength. Pitilessly it drove primitive man to victory, for the pride of bearing back a woman the spoils of the defeated. Today it drives the great men of business who run the banks, the press and international trade to increase their wealth by creating centers, harnessing energies and exalting the crowds, to worship and glorify with it the object of their lust. These men, tired but strong, find time for lust, the principal motive force of their action and of the reactions caused by their actions affecting multitudes and worlds.

responding to Gary Buel's comment on his scepticism re sra, because no dead babies found.ra groups sort disposal of remains and evidence - you need very little thought to figure out ways this can be done. My experience of ra concerns around 50 cases, none successfully investigated. in accounts of these it is common that investigating police frustrate the investigation by for example, not looking for evidence where they are told it will be found, not interviewing all suspects and so on. cases are then closed for lack of evidence. of 2 cases I am particularly concerned about now, one has a system of disposal of small remains which is foolproof - won't describe it for obvious reasons. Another used a variety of means to dispose of 'larger' remains. In these cases, as far as possible, I have checked evidence given in accounts against real facts and found enough correlation to indicate that the accounts were real. Let me describe one small part of this in one case, (where there was over 100,000 words of evidence from one survivor and smaller amounts from 3 others) Survivor A described what appeared to be the disposal of a body. Unknown to her Survivor B had described something which may have been a murder. I did not immediately connect these 2 events. I was struck by S.A. having recalled a very detailed scene which she said was a repeated dream from when she was 10 yrs old, some 9 years earlier. The detail emerged in response to my questions - like what time of day, where were the cars etc. She described a body being carried to a section of a waterway which runs through a town. I knew this area (I thought well) and felt she had mixed up the bridge with one of the others there. I thought this because I could in no way imagine anyone choosing to offload a body along that thoroughfare - even in the dead of night., and knew it was near a lockgate - surely the current would be a problem. When I next happened to be in the town I went there. To my surprise, the way she had described the positioning of the vehicles would have provided cover from the only direction where the risky moment, of unloading the body from the car and descending the steps to the towpath, would have been visible. Next I photographed the area and the 2 other bridges I thought she confused it with, but already noticing that at the place she said it was, the waterway gave out into a large pool - so making it pos. to sink remains where current would not be such a problem. Later I put all the photos on screen and asked her to look at them. somewhat bad-temperedly, she pointed out the 'right one', saying "there, I told you it was there". I then asked her to describe the victim. She did so, saying what he was wearing. At this moment, it clicked that the Survivor B had desribed the possible victim in what he had seen in the same way. ( I'd worked out from laborious time charting was at the same 3 month period) I went back to SB, who, very distressed, kept repeating "poor bastard, he'd done nothing", and desribed him again, and also described the man not normally in this group of abusers who had been there, and added some testimony about an odd exchange of vehicles, - en route to this bridge btw. I went back to SA and asked her to describe who was carrying the body - descriptions matched. I asked was SB there. Reluctantly, she said he was - she hadn't wanted to say, because she knew he was not in a state to know himself.

OK? now the psychology and the metaphysics are all very interesting but if anyone out there has the slightest idea how I can make happen real investigations, by police who will bring in forensics, diving teams etc. I am all ears.I won't say I have given up on this, I keep going in a footslogging way and am due to see another 'tec shortly re another case, where the evidence was stifled for 12 years. He may do something - on the basis of past experience I don't think so, but you never know.

The Mormons never really gave up multiple wives. There is a Canadian twist to the story that is more than a bit suspicious. The Canadian Pacific Railway was given huge tracks of land as a subsidy for track building. In 1883, the Mormons were on the move north for some of that land but had to sign an agreement to defer from poligamy as this was against the law in Canada. They eventually agreed and were given a huge tract of land in the vicinity of Cardston, Alberta which served as a "stopper" for the Blood Indian Reserve and gave Mormons a hundred thousand acres. The public view at the time was that the LDS no longer supported multiple marriage partners but the fact of the matter is that nothing changed. Your perception that CNN is presently obsessed with the subject is accurate. The problem they are having is that Canada does not prosecute the leader of the LDS clan at Bountiful, B.C. which seems to be a thorn in their side. They are treated like celebrities in the Canadian press.

My opinion is that the story "this week" is to jack up tension between Canada and the U.S. just like they did with Mexico and the illegals plus the legalize it stories for the past month "last week". If Harper bites and makes poligamy an issue, it will look like the U.S. can throw its weight around and we must all bow to the king..

"We are told that if we would give up polygamy - which we know to be a doctrine revealed from heaven, and it is God and the world for it - but suppose this Church should give up this holy order of marriage, then would the devil, and all who are in league with him against the cause of God, rejoice that they had prevailed upon the Saints to refuse to obey one of the revelations and commandments of God to them." - JoD 11:239 (June 3, 1866)

Immediate death for whites who marry blacks - it will always be so!

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." - Journal of Discourses: vol.10 p. 110: (March 8, 1863)

The account above about "advanced orchard practice" is about as sickening to me as the 'advanced cattle-feeding practice' of feeding carcasses of their own dead to herbivores. It is the same kind of satanic mentality fueled by lust for wealth and all that comes of it. The trees are living things, created by God. No doubt in mind their is some kind of karma blow-back for this rapinous attitude. Damn, how the fools never learn!Instead of accepting God's gifts with humility and thankfulness, the only thought is how to extract MORE.

You make people feel comfortable in their madness, Jeff; how is that different from slavish obedience?I love the way the sun shines on my dog's head, as he drinks the air from the open window; but I close it anyway, not for the birdsong but because of the endless sound of motor traffic.It's people--people everywhere, makes "culling the herd" so attractive

I once saw a Bee-eating Wasp, while carrying a Bee to her storehouse, attacked and caught by a Mantis. The Wasp was in the act of eating the honey she had found in the Bee’s crop. The double saw of the Mantis closed suddenly on the feasting Wasp; but neither terror nor torture could persuade that greedy creature to leave off eating. Even while she was herself being actually devoured she continued to lick honey from her Bee!

the mormonism stuff is very "convergent" I think. I'm busy for the next week wrapping up the semester (I'm a college professor), but after that I promise to come back and give you a few fascinating bits of high weirdness I've recently experienced that are connected to my long ago brush with mormonism. I think it will be of interest to those here, and not just vanity posting...