When you untilnately compare a Corpie and Maxier they tend to have different advantages. With the Corpies edging out because money and resources can make a big difference.

However I been thinking about something that Mixers should have, along with military grade illegal weaponry, to make their lives more in tune with the corpies.

A Black Market.

Not only does it cater to 'new destructive toys' but also offers a job to Ripper Docs and Chemists. But that is not all. I believe they should offer full cloning systems, at a much higher price, due to cost of operations. They also offer jobs in the form of 'discrete hits' to those willing to take it, trade in military grade illegal and even forbidden weaponry and gear and could also possibly had their own shadow Grid version for the more unsavory mixers to mingle. All of this at a cost of course. The BM is not controlled by one entity so Gangers have to abide by certain rules while there. Getting to it should quite hard to reach for the average mixer.

Thoughts?

By IssacF at Sep 17, 2014 5:55 PM

So you want the Mixers to never have to come topside for Corporate provided services and lower the amount of interaction and RP?

Huh.. Not to mention half the stuff you mention happens and is available through RP in the Mix already.

By Cerberus at Sep 17, 2014 5:58 PM

Ah but the twist of the world. Fictionally but unproven as seen Lord of the War (Nicholas Cage) The Government want people like him. What is it is only the left side of the hand that is shown and not the right side (Judges and Law)?

By IssacF at Sep 17, 2014 6:01 PM

No offense but do you seriously think there isn't an already existing weapon trade that operates outside of the law in SD? :-)

By Cerberus at Sep 17, 2014 6:01 PM

Everything you're asking for exists...just need to know where/how to get it. There will always be dotted lines from grey market activities to corporations. Unsanctioned Ops, etc. Talking about the on the forum doesn't do any of it justice though.

I know it does. I play Gangers. But with disguises suddenly being illegal as you can be judges a terrorist I fail to see how the more unsavory types can successfully clone at all.

By IssacF at Sep 17, 2014 6:06 PM

Sounds like you had a rough IC moment...but your thoughts are jumbled and not relaying well in this format. Take a minute and draft something up for us all to discuss. As an outside reader, I have no idea what you're talking about or really asking for at this point.

"I know it does. I play Gangers. But with disguises suddenly being illegal as you can be judges a terrorist I fail to see how the more unsavory types can successfully clone at all."

This is an actual problem I feel, why does Gentek put up with Judges harassing their customers?

By Esther at Sep 17, 2014 6:11 PM

Put up with?

They count on it.

So do all the other corps, they MADE the WJF.

By Vetra at Sep 17, 2014 6:13 PM

Because the Judges are the law, put into effect by the Council, which I believe Genetek probably has a seat on. They have millions of law abiding citizens, who cares if the ones that don't obey the law are iced.

By stryder at Sep 17, 2014 6:15 PM

I play in the mix, and I'm gonna have to agree with Cerberus and reefer here, there may be an unbalance, I'm not sure, but... the solutions you're offering already 'exist', maybe put out what your problem is clearer?

By Nips at Sep 17, 2014 6:16 PM

I feel it goes against the theme.

It would be like setting Judges around Nice Dream Vending Machines because criminals are buying drugs.

By Esther at Sep 17, 2014 6:16 PM

Actually I have to completely agree here at this point, the Mix and the Corpie side are completely unbalanced. You've basically given a fuck all towards Mixers and that anyone who wants to play a ganger or any sort of criminal is as good as permed because you've banned any way around a person would normally get around to being able to get a clone or update while they were a criminal.

The only way to get around it is if an admin isn't around which shouldn't be the case that you have to constantly watch your backs from admins. I think we need a black market cloning if that's going to be the case than. More expensive but still have a higher chance of DCD because it's a black market contraption.

By Mew at Sep 17, 2014 6:21 PM

If you're not a terrorist, you have nothing to hide. If your character feels like they can't go to Gold without a disguise, they have made some dramatic IC choices and are experiencing the themely consequences.

It's possible to play criminals AND stay off the WJF radar.

It's possible to be wanted as hell and NEVER go topside.

It's possible to have access to more power, connections and money than 95% of all corpies, without ever putting a disguise on OR riding the E7 away from the ghetto.

Last thought:

Concerns about balance may not have anything to do with the MOO, and may have to do with this month's/season's players. Go back a while, the perception of imbalance went the other way. And back and forth etc etc etc.

It can be changed with your own RP. Your own character's actions.

By Vetra at Sep 17, 2014 6:23 PM

My perspective is bigger.

or any sort of criminal is as good as permed because you've banned any way around a person would normally get around to being able to get a clone or update while they were a criminal.

This might be true for the occasional few and far between character, and it has more to do with how other characters react to them than anything inherent in the game or in GM attitude or policy.

Not everyone is going to RP the exact same type of skills, what kind of message is that sending when you're telling people you NEED to have this skill or you're going to be a shit criminal? People are forced topside for their clone updates or cloning. Or if they are killed for whatever reason in RED, there is no way to never go topside.

By Mew at Sep 17, 2014 6:26 PM

Setting aside matters of disguises and so forth ...

This discussion makes me wonder why there isn't a branch cloning facility on Red. It is, after all, the most populous sector and thematically packed with businesses and potential customers not being taken advantage of. I can see a cloning facility doing very well on Red, given the thematic profits, as well as the fact that people down below are as likely to desire an extended lifespan as folks above.

Of course, it'd probably be lower grade facilities with little security, so one would clone there at one's own risk. Maintains the advantages of taking a safer cloning path on Gold if one so desires.

By Kuroyama at Sep 17, 2014 6:31 PM

"It's possible to be wanted as hell and NEVER go topside."

Not if you intend to clone / update your clone, which you're then most likely going to be hijacked by the WJF, I thought corporations were powered by greed and not worried to much about the moral crisis of criminals using their wares.

"It's possible to have access to more power, connections and money than 95% of all corpies, without ever putting a disguise on OR riding the E7 away from the ghetto."

Except they can *also* do this on top of their regular corporate boons.

By Esther at Sep 17, 2014 6:34 PM

Let's not also forget, they've basically made it so Mixers are welcomed top side for the most part, and as it should be theme wise, mixers should be in Red, Corpies on Gold for the most part.

The problem is when a mixer does something on Gold, they are major consiquences. But if someone from Gold does something on Red, everyones hands are tied and theres little to nothing they can do.

I'm sure i'm not the only whose noticed how freely corpies walk through the mix without a ganger or someone harrassing them. But if a mixer is topside a Judge will mess with them instantly.

By Mew at Sep 17, 2014 6:37 PM

No one is restricted to stay on Red, and since the lev fair is only 45 chyen, it's quite easy for anyone on Red to get up to Gold. Sure they get funny looks and ostricized, but if they can save up the 5k, no one at Sense/Net is going to give them shit for showing up and paying them money to make a clone. Any cloning facilities on Red would be illegal, as Genetek has the only legal right to make clones, and Sense/Net the only legal right to collect that data for the clones.

By stryder at Sep 17, 2014 6:38 PM

Let's have a show of hands from players who think it's easy for Corpies to wander around the Mix these days.

Just because you aren't restricted doesn't mean you aren't going to get screwed over by a Judge or a Corpie because you ARE a mixer on GOLD. You'll be messed with, the same should apply to a Corpie on Red,

By Mew at Sep 17, 2014 6:41 PM

I'm sure i'm not the only whose noticed how freely corpies walk through the mix without a ganger or someone harrassing them. But if a mixer is topside a Judge will mess with them instantly.

I'm fairly certain that not too long ago there was some huge complications for corpies wanting to go to the Mix, and that tension hasn't really gone down.

By stryder at Sep 17, 2014 6:43 PM

"Any cloning facilities on Red would be illegal, as Genetek has the only legal right to make clones, and Sense/Net the only legal right to collect that data for the clones."

If this concerns my idea/query, I would emphasize that I said branch facilities, meaning secondary sites for these respective organizations. There's a trove of people down on Red they could be doing business with, cloning being one of those more desirable realities of the setting.

By Kuroyama at Sep 17, 2014 6:43 PM

I've seen a lot of corpies walking through the mix lately without much of a problem, they don't get bothered or people just don't realize they are corpies. I've seen the WJF coming down to the mix more often than they should because its contracted out for TERRA to handle. I've seen NLM cruisers coming down where they have no business.

So please do tell how hard it is for them to be on Red?

By Mew at Sep 17, 2014 6:45 PM

The corporations have the power.

Mixers are at a disadvantage.

If you don't want to lose easy access to the privileges of a good citizen then don't be a criminal, or don't be a criminal that announces that they're some badass that murders people all the time, or simply don't attract attention to yourself, collect your pay and keep your mouth shut.

By Cerberus at Sep 17, 2014 6:45 PM

So basically it's play it your way or don't play at all.

By Mew at Sep 17, 2014 6:46 PM

*Raises hand*

I've actually seen a few of them on Red quite often the past few days. I don't know if it's been harder for them, but they've been there.

By Esther at Sep 17, 2014 6:46 PM

IF there are corpies on Red there is likely a good reason why they haven't been assaulted by the gangs or mixers in general. If you don't like it, too bad.

This thread has been derailed enough with the tears.

By Cerberus at Sep 17, 2014 6:47 PM

If there are known.recognizable/obvious coropies who look like they're having an easy time visiting Red, there may be a reason for it which you don't know about.

That goes for a lot of this thread. Everyone has their personal perspective where they feel they see an imbalance, but, you don't know everything and it's funny that people all over the game feel the burn when they earn it.

I'll also say that players are more harsh than admins are, when it comes to dishing out consequences. So if you want to see the imbalance you feel like you see corrected, have your character correct it.

The thing with that though is to also take into account that just because someone may be dressed nice, does not necessarily make them a corpie. There are several "families", mobs, etc. that dress nice and live and work in the Mix.

Plus, there would be businesses (fronts) that have back room casinos or strip joints or whore houses that WANT corpies to come to Red. "Yes, come, come. We're more than *happy* to take your money." "Oh, you like to play cards? How cute. Ten thousand down." "You want a room for a meeting? Sure, we can provide. It will cost you ."

There are markets, weapons, other things. There may or may not be an illegal clone update pod and someone to upload the info. If it was an building like on Gold, what would stop it from getting robbed?

As for the original post, there are things in the Mix, you just need to find them, or the people who have them. :)

--

By thecraftydragon at Sep 17, 2014 7:02 PM

Just letting a few points of my own out here.

1.) I -do- like the idea of an illegal cloning facility in the Mix. I -don't- think it should be more expensive, but I -do- think it should come with the possibility of getting diseases from the needle that records your data and increased chances of DCD upon cloning. There could also be a .05% chance of your clone data being corrupted, meaning you think you have a clone, but oops... your permed instead :P

2.) As far as corpies in the Mix and Mixers on Gold: If corpies come to Red, they should be harrased on the streets and given a hard time while inside of establishments. The owners of said establishment -should- want corpies coming in, corpies spend more money. This could also open the niche for a solo/street sam/etc. to make money advertising and supplying corpies with protection into the mix.

Mixers on Gold, it is the corporate working sector. They should be sneered and cursed at, but should not be impeded -on the streets- unless doing something sketchy (being covered in blood, harassing a corpie, carrying a weapon, etc.) Disguises should in no way be illegal, or warrant a search -on the streets-. Maybe it's cold out and they are wearing their hoodie for warmth. If someone goes into a corporation hiding their face, then fuck yeah, ostracize the shit out of them.

On Green and Blue? Yes, even on the street Mixers should be harassed almost immediately by Judges.

3.) Black market is not a place you go, it's buying things illegally from any source. It exists and should not be put to a specific place.

And here I end my novel. :P

By Swashbuckler at Sep 17, 2014 8:39 PM

Disguises should in no way be illegal, or warrant a search -on the streets-.

There are certain IC reasons for this because of certain IC situations that have happened. Also, a Judge can search you at any time for any reason, because they're a god damned Judge.

By stryder at Sep 17, 2014 8:43 PM

If someone wearing a brilliant fuschia hoodie just was witnessed doing a crime and someone else wearing a brilliant fuschia garment with a hood, hell yea. Search the shit out of them, harass the fuck out of them. That makes sense. Wearing a balaclava mask(ski mask) yea, they have a horrible rep for what they have been used for. But just wearing a hoodie shouldn't be illegal and be cause on it's own to stop and harass someone on the streets of gold. That is my point.

By Swashbuckler at Sep 17, 2014 8:46 PM

The Judges can harrass, stop, and search you for -any reason-. They're not like modern day police. They don't even -have- to have a reason, there is no probable cause in Sindome.

By stryder at Sep 17, 2014 8:48 PM

Wearing a hoodie on the streets of Gold during the heavy snow?

Must be a terrorist.

By Euclid at Sep 17, 2014 8:48 PM

Trust me, I am fully aware of the theme and the authorities and liberties the Judges have. I'm not saying if they have a wild hair up their ass that they -can't-, I'm saying stopping someone just because they have a hoodie on should -not- be a common occurrence on the streets of Gold. It would take business away from the corporations if people feel they can't wear warm clothes traveling to their corporate destination without being harassed. Mixers and Corpies alike.

By Swashbuckler at Sep 17, 2014 8:52 PM

Okay, I've stopped reading this thread halfway through because people are complaining about things that are 'out of balance' that aren't even happening anymore. We heard what you guys were saying in regards to certain difficulties and issues regarding cloning.

Here's the thing though, you can have a hoodie made that doesn't cover your face even if it has a hood. And this is normal, the hoodie doesn't cover your face and you're in the clear. However the specific items that -do- give you a disguise makes you suspicious because the hood is pulled up and further than is necessary to make it harder for people to see your face. There's also plenty of jackets that have 'hoods' on them that don't give you a disguise.

By stryder at Sep 17, 2014 8:56 PM

Let me just throw this out there. 65 MILLION PEOPLE in the Dome, you are gonna notice with that much ease, whose hood goes that extra inch to cover their face? And this makes them suspicious? Even a normal hood, if you walk with your head down, your face wouldn't be easily noticeable, this makes that person suspicious? Think about the sprawl of people crossing that street, just because -1- PC walks through with a disguise s/he is automatically a suspect and should be stopped and searched?

@Slither: If this is something that was an isolated incident and not something that happens regularly or was announced that disguises would be pseudo-illegal(for lack of better wording) than sorry for debating it, but as long as someone thinks it's a good idea and defends it, I won't agree with that.

By Swashbuckler at Sep 17, 2014 9:03 PM

There isn't 65 million people on Gold at any given time. Judge's jobs are to pay keen attention and -spot- that -ONE- suspicious person out of the crowd. That's all I've got to say on the matter at this point.

By stryder at Sep 17, 2014 9:06 PM

I did not say there was 65 million on gold, 65 million in the dome. Gold it corporation central, where a good portion of that population is constantly in commute. Yes, Judges are supposed to have keen eyes. But just because that -ONE- PC is wearing a disguise does not mean he is the -ONLY ONE- on that particular street wearing one and by -NO- means would he be the only suspicious character walking the streets of Gold.

By Swashbuckler at Sep 17, 2014 9:09 PM

'There isn't 65 million people on Gold at any given time. Judge's jobs are to pay keen attention and -spot- that -ONE- suspicious person out of the crowd. That's all I've got to say on the matter at this point.'

If this is your assessment of what constitutes a suspicious person in an age of affordable cyberware, where villains would often be the least suspecting in a crowd and not a stereotypical hoodie pulling his hood up more snugly around his head in the bad weather, then... alright. I'd think unless somebody who fits this description is actively causing trouble, loitering or acting suspicious the Judges have much bigger fish to fry - they're tasked with a much larger scale job than harassing hoodies. But if they're going to pick on small fry, I'd expect something a lot more scattergun than 'you're wearing an arbitrarily suspicious hoodie so you're being rousted'.

By Euclid at Sep 17, 2014 9:13 PM

As Johnny once told me "That's the bitch of it, we're a giant small town." Corporate citizens are not going to try and hide their face unless they have a damned good reason too, and if you as that ONE player character move fast and hard, or hell, sneak around like someone hiding their face should be, you'll be alright. Otherwise, except one of the several Street Judges to top you and ask to see your face to verify your ID.

By stryder at Sep 17, 2014 9:13 PM

Euclid, having watched a Judge Puppet come and make someone take their hoodie after just a few -seconds- of being on the street with it on, take it up with the Admin, not me. I'm just laying down my thoughts on what I've already seen Admin do.

By stryder at Sep 17, 2014 9:14 PM

'Euclid, having watched a Judge Puppet come and make someone take their hoodie after just a few -seconds- of being on the street with it on, take it up with the Admin, not me.'

But you're purporting to be the authority who says if you move hard and fast, you'll be alright.

I'm addressing you because I'm addressing your points, not what you've witnessed an admin do before.

By Euclid at Sep 17, 2014 9:16 PM

I've played both sides. A corpie who's made it big, and a mixer thug. And this is my thoughts.

Firstly: When the WJF overstep there authority, the corps do smack them back in line. it happens. It also happens when any other corps step out of line.

Secondly: Corpies have a severe disadvantage for money in the begining, that pays off over time (or can) This is because the cost of there expected lifestyle is higher (rent, drinks, clothing, phones, all there stuff costs more)

thirdly: MANY corpies turn to the mix to supplement there lifestyle with black market goods (can't afford a new progia-11? Buy a stolen one)

So, my view, is both sectors are symbiotic.

By Mann at Sep 17, 2014 9:18 PM

@stryder:

If you have witnessed an Admin do it before, cool. Go you. What you may fail to realize is something may have happened that you are not aware of: a tip off, a report off suspicious activity in the area, a threat called in, etc. Like I have said, under certain circumstances, yes. It should happen. But it should not be the everyday on the job accept norm to stop someone -JUST- for wearing a hood.

By Swashbuckler at Sep 17, 2014 9:27 PM

I don't believe that Mixers are badly disadvantaged. I believe they have disadvantages but they're different to the disadvantages a corpie might face. I'm certainly not in favor of Mixers receiving any major boons.

'So you want the Mixers to never have to come topside for Corporate provided services and lower the amount of interaction and RP?'

I'll disagree with this though,

There are plenty of reasons many Mixers avoid topside and that RP isn't readily available for those characters at any rate. (Actually, it's still very possible to seek out that topside RP as an ostracized Mixer but there are plenty of reasons someone would choose not to.) Whilst Corpies visiting the Mix don't have a walk in the park either, I think they have by far and wide more avenues to do so, especially compared to Mixers that aren't major criminals but are badly portrayed - which from my experience happens a lot. Little town effect.

Now I'm still not saying that Mixers need any boons - I strongly resist that. Mixers are very well off. But I doubt the above suggestions would inhibit much RP, since the characters it'd benefit most are already pretty stifled when it comes to topside RP. I don't think introducing more alternatives would interfere with people who successfully integrate themselves topside and in the Mix. That said, I think people will find that they do have alternatives if they dig around in the game world and get creative.

By Euclid at Sep 17, 2014 9:33 PM

Every once in a while - a circle jerk arises on the bitch board that makes us all forget why we play this game. I encourage you wall to read over the long forgotten words of Kevlar.

What's to argue? Some situations shouldn't be winnable. There's no guarantee for success, only for failure.

Sindome IS the Kobayashi Maru scenario. You will not survive. Period. Death, destruction, entropy, and failure is inevitable. The only variable is when, and how.

The game is fun because of that! The more powerful you become, the more people envy that power, and will seek to gain it for themselves, and the harder you're going to have to struggle to maintain it. The joy of playing lies in holding off that death and destruction just another day... keeping that power just a little longer.

It's a non-zero-sum game, with no 'good' ending. And the candle that burns twice as bright burns half as long. If you've become so powerful that you're literally indestructible, the game becomes quite pointless and dull (isn't that right, Murphy?). The only thing that keeps it interesting is having to constantly maintain that power. And sometimes that means losing it.

But i've wondered if Gold should be more of a middle ground between red and green/blue..

Now this is just my perspective on things and it is i admit very limited as i've not been playing that long in the grander scheme of things..

But i wonder if Gold, green, blue are too safe...

Just a thought but by moving the Judges and the WFJ tower to green say.. and have gold as a sort of buffer zone, where its a lot safer than the mix but say crime was also possible (due to limited Camera/Jake coverage) then maybe it would encourage more mixer/corpie interaction, actually put corpies in some degree of danger... Green / blue would still be as safe as they are with heavy Judge presence.. but corpie would actually have to venture into slightly dodgy territory to go to work.. (lucky?) Mixers would also be more included to work both in red and the mix (in more menial jobs) and its more of a gradual transition between green and red?..

On a slight separate note ive also wondered if immies should be encouraged to start playing in gold/green and then choose to move to the mix by choice or action.. that way the path of the immie would be a little easier and the mix would have a more of an allure as somewhere slightly out of bounds and risky...rather than starting them in red and then they move to gold..

Anyway just my thoughts...

By wintermute at Sep 18, 2014 12:10 AM

Gold/Green/Blue is topside. Corpies work on Gold and live above it. Gold isn't a middle ground.

Also, part of the perception of unbalance has to do with how many new players/characters have pursued, and gotten, topside jobs.

It still isn't easy. Some of your present day Mixers are in the Mix because they RP'd being too classless and clueless to be credible corporate candidates. Behavior and appearance count for a lot, folks. Conformity is one of the sacrifices people make for those topside jobs, and, for some, it's too much and they either bail out to, or fall to, the Mix.

Theme wise, Gold is this way.. when you get away from Central Gold. However since our game is based around the Central areas of the Dome we're stuck with this more heavily patrolled and protected section of Gold.

However it does seem really hard to get a job on Gold unless you make sure to make specific choices. And yet at the same time I've heard and seen new PC's getting jobs on Gold quite easily so it's a 50/50 I guess.

By stryder at Sep 18, 2014 12:14 AM

Also. A fuck ton of crime already happens on gold, as it is.

And a fair amount on green

And Blue is a villanous hive, since you can't become an exec and be honest.

By Mann at Sep 18, 2014 12:16 AM

Like i said, just my thoughts.

Just to be clear I wasnt commenting on the ability to get jobs or move to topside..

i was just suggesting that maybe there shouldnt be this hard line between red and the rest of withmore.

Like i said, its a narrow POV that i have, andi was merely throwing it out there,

That maybe if Gold was a little grey'er (ie more conductive to overt crime such as mugging/ hoodies/dips etc) then there might be more of a balance.. green and blue would still be the fluffy bunny corpie land safe zones and red would still be hardcore danger .. but gold could act as a grey area.

think null sec, low sec and high sec space..

anyway like i said.. just my thoughts.. feel free to ignore them rather than be upset by them.

By wintermute at Sep 18, 2014 12:22 AM

Wow this got derailed...

The suggestion was too centralized the shady undergoing I have experienced as a ganger.

Since that time disguises have become useless. Back then I could go full protek and hide my identity and update. Or wait longer period to clone and escape like a rat via sewers.

Now disguises are not exactly possible on Gold or you are treated as a possible terrorist. This leaves criminals at a disadvantage when cloning. Unless of course they just make you a criminal record and leave you be after getting judged, to clone. As in you paid your dues you can clone.

The BM was the idea that the government has a left hand that is 'centralized' to crime making it more organized as well as have some services for higher fees. But its cool if BM doesn't exist. But at least allow us to use disguises again. I feel like my skill for that has become useless.

Note: I do not currently play a Mixer but I am seeing just how disadvantageous it will be to play the criminal type of Mixer I like.

By IssacF at Sep 18, 2014 5:15 AM

As Johnny once told me "That's the bitch of it, we're a giant small town." Corporate citizens are not going to try and hide their face unless they have a damned good reason too, and if you as that ONE player character move fast and hard, or hell, sneak around like someone hiding their face should be, you'll be alright. Otherwise, except one of the several Street Judges to top you and ask to see your face to verify your ID.

I have been murdered several times and I don't currently play a Mixer. Disguises is my line of defense of getting singled out by opposing threats.

@Mew

I did not suggest this so players like you could keep their precious powerful gang lords alive. If anything the Black Market cloning should cost a LOT more and be VERY flawed. Meaning it should act a LOT like corpse cloning that it degrades your clones abilities PLUS raises DCD by a high margin. Never once did I suggest BM serves the cure to DCD.

By IssacF at Sep 18, 2014 5:30 AM

Since when did mixers have rights?

It seems alot of the RP expected here is players aiming the gun at the GM's and saying "Fix it." Here's the thing though, there are only so many of us and we won't hold your hand for you. The game is how YOU make it, GM's are just here to keep everything in balance and check.

WJF harasses you when you clone? Try taking a shower and dressing less like the unibomber before you go topside. Guess what? Even beat cops today, whom have NO powers of judge and jury like the Judges in the game do, racially profile and even stop people for little to no reason. It happens. Going on the SIC and proclaiming yourself as the hardest thing since concrete and taking credit for murders is only going to heighten security because the WJF figures like everyone else, you probably like to update. I don't feel the corporations give a hoot about random harassment because the Judges are the fuckin law. It's like the checks and balances of The US government, While the corporations have influence in the HOJ, they cannot issue Judgements, warrants, etc, nor do they want to patrol the streets. You think it's wrong that you see the WJF in the mix? Terra has a contract to detain criminals. Judges still have to go down and JUDGE them. Judges still enforce the law dome wide. Judges can go wherever the hell they please. Judges, unlike a few of you, practice caution before they go to the mix most of the time though.

See a corpie on gold slumming it up and pissing you off? Mention it to a ganger if you don't like confrontation, confront him YOURSELF if you do. Interesting concept I know.

I also believe it or not support black market cloning, however I support black market cloning at your own risk. I also support clone failure at these facilites.

To sum it up, I don't think there is any imbalance out of theme here. This isn't some Liberal paradise where everyone is happy. The odds are stacked against you to survive in the mix, and the odds are in favor of the corporation and all of their cults. Just as intended.

By Grizzly at Sep 18, 2014 6:06 AM

I believe crazy shit should happen and that criminals should fear the law, so fear of cloning means shit is working.

I also believe mixers should be killing more corpies instead of going out with them for drinks...

By Jinx at Sep 18, 2014 6:19 AM

Oh boy, very interesting post. Not that it matters as opinions are just opinions but I will leave mine here as well.

I agree with Grizzly, Judges have the right to judge anything at anytime because that's their concept, they are strict, they are powerful and many times they might abuse their power for the sake of so called justice for the tiniest of reasons, so yeah heading up to Gold like a hobo just to clone might cause you problems, answer to a Judge with an attitude might cause you problems.

Now I understand there are different kind of criminals, loudmouths and discreet types. Both of choices have to do with what YOU want to RP. A loudmouth will be famous, will be called names good or bad and his/her appearance will be known, if walk open air proudly in any sector, not just Gold with the high security, don't ask for protections, things more likely will happen just because of your presence. You suddenly change opinion and want to be more discreet, well time to change your cloning plans, disguises are risky? Did you know that just like in real life you can change your appearance? Change your hair, change your eyes, put lens on them, put make up, walk and talk differently, dress like a corpie, confuse them! Now if roleplaying is poor from both sides(Player's and GM's puppet) and they still understand you just because it's you, then yeah, if nothing works I suggest the Black Market cloning with the VERY high risks.

I won't refer it as a problem for discreet criminals, if they do their work properly they won't even have an issue showing their faces. Those criminals won't attract much attention to themselves, they will do their work even as loners, they will still RP everything and get away with their discreet ways. On another note GMs shouldn't be forcing the players to RP any other way than the one the player has decided for him/herself.

One small suggestion I have, just like GMs get a Judge NPC to check a Mixer at Gold sector then with the same way get a ganger NPC to check a fancy rich looking guy checked in the Mix. (If not done already, I might have just missed it.)

To sum up, I don't see high unbalance between the sectors, maybe only the difficulty of cloning for loud criminals but all in all it has to do with RP choises that should be treated accordingly from both sides.

That's all folks.

By Snook at Sep 18, 2014 6:57 AM

I ubderstabd what RM and Jinx are saying. But living in PR, which I am sure is not as huge as USA, cops indeed do profiling.

However a Black Market was maintained and is always maintained by people rumored to be working as the left ha d of the Government. If they get caught the Government disavows them. Alex Millones was a such person. How could the government of PR allow the man who was clearly responsible for a lot of Black Marketing? Paying here and there so people and government alike turn a blind eye? He sold every known illegal service. And he was doing this since 1996? Until recently when he must have truly messed up. Even for the FBI the man was a ghost. Seriously?

That is what I see missing that does exist in real life. And Black market Cloning should exist but have also a higher risk. Like that black market eye exchange in Minority Report and other such black markets. They have them in Shadow Run for example.

But I felt the topic was being derailed into something it was not. Again see my post on Angelo Millones. Had the name wrong. Anyway he was condemned via drug trafficking but all his other underground black market illegal activities are never brought to light. It would be interesting if the Black Market was something the council came up with (considering people in Blue are so called villains are none are honest)