A small bump would be helpful for financial aid at Chicago and Columbia, and it might move the needle a bit on Harvard admissions. But you're pretty much in everywhere (with the caveat that Yale and Stanford are black boxes).

One thing to keep in mind: if finances are a concern for you, HYS all do need-based scholarships only. If you don't think you'll qualify for need-based aid, you should focus on getting a full ride at one of CCN, which is very doable with your numbers.

cavalier1138 wrote:A small bump would be helpful for financial aid at Chicago and Columbia, and it might move the needle a bit on Harvard admissions. But you're pretty much in everywhere (with the caveat that Yale and Stanford are black boxes).

One thing to keep in mind: if finances are a concern for you, HYS all do need-based scholarships only. If you don't think you'll qualify for need-based aid, you should focus on getting a full ride at one of CCN, which is very doable with your numbers.

Thanks cavalier! As I understand it, H and Y offer need-based aid for international applicants who are accepted; not entirely sure how Stanford assesses us. I don't mind not getting a full-ride in CCN, provided that they offer affordable loan options for international students.

Would a 174 vs. a 172 be a big bump for Y and S? (Y especially, because I would really like to study under some of the professors over there)

I'm in your position, had a few tests higher than 172 but ended up scoring 172 on test day. Also have a 4.1 GPA. I can't tell you what to do, but I'm not going to retake. LSAT's been a drain on my life for months now, and I'm a lock at most schools I'm applying to (with $$). HYS are going to be black boxes for me either way (unless I drastically improve my score, and even then, kids get rejected with higher LSATs) and they don't offer more money for a higher score, so I'm one and done.

Amerision wrote:I'm in your position, had a few tests higher than 172 but ended up scoring 172 on test day. Also have a 4.1 GPA. I can't tell you what to do, but I'm not going to retake. LSAT's been a drain on my life for months now, and I'm a lock at most schools I'm applying to (with $$). HYS are going to be black boxes for me either way (unless I drastically improve my score, and even then, kids get rejected with higher LSATs) and they don't offer more money for a higher score, so I'm one and done.

I disagree with this, OP. Yes, people with higher LSATs get rejected. But having a higher LSAT still gives you a better chance. Especially when a jump from 172 to 174 would move you from below median to above median at Yale, I think it's worth doing.

That said, as an above poster mentioned, the substance of your side projects could make a difference.

Valuable but optional projects at work and learning languages and doing language proficiency tests. Neither is related to law school apps, but both will definitely help my career and personal development in the long run.

Hi lynn, I was in a similar spot after last September's test (almost identical numbers) and ultimately decided to retake in December. I applied with a 174 after my retake, so my apps were on the later side of things. I was dinged at Y, WL at S, and in the rest of the way down (except a UVA WL, still bitter about that ). The bump from 172 to 174 could potentially impact your $$$ from CCN, and with a September retake, your apps would still be pretty timely. Y/S are such black boxes that I wouldn't make those the reasons you retake. You're right that this is a tough spot. I can only say that from my experience, I'm glad I retook. After weighing cost/benefit, I decided that a couple hundred bucks and a few extra weeks of studying were worth a better shot at admissions/$$$. If you choose not to retake, though, you'll still have incredible outcomes with your stats.

One more thing, if you haven't already, I'd use MyLSN to check out how much that two point increase can move the dial. Here are the outcomes at 172 and 174. Great options either way. If the difference between the numbers on bottom and top are worth the extra studying, then go for it.

Amerision wrote:I'm in your position, had a few tests higher than 172 but ended up scoring 172 on test day. Also have a 4.1 GPA. I can't tell you what to do, but I'm not going to retake. LSAT's been a drain on my life for months now, and I'm a lock at most schools I'm applying to (with $$). HYS are going to be black boxes for me either way (unless I drastically improve my score, and even then, kids get rejected with higher LSATs) and they don't offer more money for a higher score, so I'm one and done.

I disagree with this, OP. Yes, people with higher LSATs get rejected. But having a higher LSAT still gives you a better chance. Especially when a jump from 172 to 174 would move you from below median to above median at Yale, I think it's worth doing.

That said, as an above poster mentioned, the substance of your side projects could make a difference.

Thanks! I'm leaning towards retake now. It's mostly related to work and other grad school apps; they're extremely helpful for career and personal development, but, again, I doubt they make any difference in law school apps.

Last edited by tuna_wasabi on Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I retook with nearly identical stats and I'm almost sure that it helped pretty significantly with scholarship money, and probably some with increased admissions chances at HYS. That being said, I was KJD and had no opportunity cost in retaking, so there was no downside beyond the actual test fee. Also I had a very definite route to increasing my score, so if you have been studying for a long time/peaking in your PTs I'm not as certain.

I would still lean toward retaking, I don't think there is enough downside not to do so.

Pozzo wrote:Hi lynn, I was in a similar spot after last September's test (almost identical numbers) and ultimately decided to retake in December. I applied with a 174 after my retake, so my apps were on the later side of things. I was dinged at Y, WL at S, and in the rest of the way down (except a UVA WL, still bitter about that ). The bump from 172 to 174 could potentially impact your $$$ from CCN, and with a September retake, your apps would still be pretty timely. Y/S are such black boxes that I wouldn't make those the reasons you retake. You're right that this is a tough spot. I can only say that from my experience, I'm glad I retook. After weighing cost/benefit, I decided that a couple hundred bucks and a few extra weeks of studying were worth a better shot at admissions/$$$. If you choose not to retake, though, you'll still have incredible outcomes with your stats.

One more thing, if you haven't already, I'd use MyLSN to check out how much that two point increase can move the dial. Here are the outcomes at 172 and 174. Great options either way. If the difference between the numbers on bottom and top are worth the extra studying, then go for it.

Pozzo, thanks a lot for this, and for your helpful advice back then. Congrats for the great cycle, especially since you applied very late in Jan! UVA was probably intimidated by your stats and thought you would likely head off somewhere else anyway.

I can't deny that Y and S are a big motive for retaking. But as you said, it's largely due to scholarship considerations and, to a lesser extent, because I personally know I could do better: most of my mistakes were on the very last section, thanks to combination of nerves/hunger/gastric pain (due to hunger). The increase in chances based on MyLSN sealed the deal for me.

If you don't mind telling, how did you prepare for the retake? Did you try a different approach?

QuentonCassidy wrote:I retook with nearly identical stats and I'm almost sure that it helped pretty significantly with scholarship money, and probably some with increased admissions chances at HYS. That being said, I was KJD and had no opportunity cost in retaking, so there was no downside beyond the actual test fee. Also I had a very definite route to increasing my score, so if you have been studying for a long time/peaking in your PTs I'm not as certain.

I would still lean toward retaking, I don't think there is enough downside not to do so.

Do you mind sharing your definite route? Running out of PTs here.. 172 is at the lower end of my PT range. To be fair, my PTs have always been in the same range without significant or steady improvement, so I may have peaked indeed.

QuentonCassidy wrote:I retook with nearly identical stats and I'm almost sure that it helped pretty significantly with scholarship money, and probably some with increased admissions chances at HYS. That being said, I was KJD and had no opportunity cost in retaking, so there was no downside beyond the actual test fee. Also I had a very definite route to increasing my score, so if you have been studying for a long time/peaking in your PTs I'm not as certain.

I would still lean toward retaking, I don't think there is enough downside not to do so.

Do you mind sharing your definite route? Running out of PTs here.. 172 is at the lower end of my PT range. To be fair, my PTs have always been in the same range without significant or steady improvement, so I may have peaked indeed.

Sorry for the confusion; I skipped a bubble on the test which messed up some of my answers, so my route was just to not mess that up next time. That is the main thing that made retaking a no-brainer for me. However, if your score was on the low end of your PT range I would seriously consider retaking. The difference between a 172 and 176 could be the difference between a Butler and a Hamilton at Columbia.

lynn.wibi wrote:If you don't mind telling, how did you prepare for the retake? Did you try a different approach?

Sure, I took a pretty similar approach as I had the first time. My first score was on the lower end of my PT range leading up to the test, so I wanted to focus on just staying fresh and shoring up a couple of weaker areas. I had three PTs in the 70s that I didn't take before my first test, so I took those in the month leading up to the Dec. admin, and then just drilled sections lightly in the 6 or so weeks leading up to it.

e: just found my study plan - I didn't touch any materials until about 6 weeks before the test. I reread the Trainer on RC, because that was my weakest area. Then I did 2 games each morning, and then alternated between LR and RC in the evenings, doing one section per night (I work fulltime, so I only studied an hour or two each day), and then the thee PTs.