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Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Originally Posted by Cryptic

That is a good question.

I cant show a copy of the unwritten social contract exists. What I can show is that all societies have had one and that the Founding Fathers of our society never voided some of its principals (mandatory service in common defense, no property is absolutely private and can thus be taxed, or claimed under imminent domain).

Can you think of any societies that held that: One could not be forced to participate in the common defense / group assistance and that property was absolutely private and thus could not be taxed, taken via imminent domain etc?

I dont know if this fits, coming in the middle of the conversation, but a business owner signs a business contract with the state.

And again, to do so based on religious beliefs is very hypocritical since that sin is judged no differently in the Bible and businesses make no effort to request permission to deny fornicators, prostitutes, or adulterers.

Originally Posted by Bucky

Welfare is a bad thing? It is essentially free money. It is not that bad.

Originally Posted by Bucky

I look at abortion the same way I do Pineapple Pizza.

Originally Posted by applejuicefool

A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Some have claimed that a bill recently passed by the Arizona legislature would give businesses broad license to not serve someone for being gay. This claim, though, may be a misreading, according a CP legislative analysis. While the bill is an attempt to broaden who is covered under its religious freedom protections, in all cases it actually narrows when a religious belief could be used to refuse service.

Here are six important points to understand about the just-passed bill:

1. If Gov. Jan Brewer (R) signs it, the bill, S.B. 1062, would make some modifications to a 1999 Arizona law called the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA).

2. Under current Arizona law, if a business wanted to discriminate against gays, they would not need this bill to be passed to do so. It is not currently illegal for a business to deny service to someone because they are gay. Some cities in Arizona have ordinances against it but there is no state law against it. If business owners in Arizona wanted to deny service to gays, they could do so in most of the state under current law.

you Rainbow people supporters NEED TO QUIT LYING!

There are some states, however, where sexual orientation is a protected class...like WA St. So it would be discriminatory in those states.

Originally Posted by Bucky

Welfare is a bad thing? It is essentially free money. It is not that bad.

Originally Posted by Bucky

I look at abortion the same way I do Pineapple Pizza.

Originally Posted by applejuicefool

A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451]

Well, I live there. I think our legislators are complete morons, I've met many of them, and our GED governor.

It is frustrating. However, it is a beautiful place to live, I was born here and I love being here.

I could never live in a state where the leaders are dumbass's and bigots that do nothing but feather their own nests and pet projects.................................. I live in Florida...........my bad.

Originally Posted by Moot

The constitution says corporations have some of the same rights as "persons".

Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Originally Posted by WorldWatcher

This bill overrides local ordinances that may provide protections under local Public Accommodation laws. What is incorrect in that Statement.

You are correct though, in most of Arizona it is already legal to discriminate against gays and lesbians, but this law does is expands who can be discriminated against. Claim a serious religous belief and this law protects you even if you are discriminating against blacks, asians, Jews, Muslims, etc.

A few years ago there were cases of Muslim cab drivers in another state who refused to carry passengers carrying alcohol (not drinking, carrying closed containers) and to carry service dogs for disabled people. They were found to be in violation of the law. Under this law they would be exempt from Public Accommodation because their sincerely held religious beliefs (as defined under Shaira Law) would exempt them.

>>>>

So this law could also lead to Jews and Muslims refusing service to each other? Yeah, let's go back to the Dark Ages. Wonderful!

Thing is...most businesses know that this will affect their bottom line...and dont do it. Thousands of Jewish bakeries back East make special hot-crossed buns for Easter every year, for example.

This is just a witch hunt against gays. And I believe it will fail.

Originally Posted by Bucky

Welfare is a bad thing? It is essentially free money. It is not that bad.

Originally Posted by Bucky

I look at abortion the same way I do Pineapple Pizza.

Originally Posted by applejuicefool

A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451]

As distasteful as this law appears to many, the law allows a business to live or die by their refusal to exclude any particular segment. I think this is how it should be. I am seeing incidents where well meaning people have politely refused to provide services for gay weddings only to be pilloried for being honest regardless of the fact that there are many other service providers willing to happily take their business. If a business politely refuses to serve a gay couples wedding, by all means, bring it to the publics attention but do not use the force of government to usurp their freedom of religion. It is not the governments place to serve as thought police. Tolerance of someones beliefs (Yeah, you too...the one spitting all over your screen right now) would dictate finding a business that is amiable to serving the gay community.

The opposite of hero is not villain, it is "bystander"
" In doing what we ought we deserve no praise, because it is our duty." -Aurelius Augustine
"But why do they use them to make Brawndo??!!"

Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

GOP National figures like Mr. Romney and Senators McCain and Flake are to be commended for publicly speaking against this AZ bill.
Gov. Brewer is wise to take the entire week, meeting tomorrow with three legislators who voted for the bill but now write to her asking for a veto.
I'll hope for this to continue with Nugent's remarks again today, comparing Obama to Nazis, brownshirts, and jack-booted thugs .

Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Originally Posted by Lursa

I dont know if this fits, coming in the middle of the conversation, but a business owner signs a business contract with the state.

And again, to do so based on religious beliefs is very hypocritical since that sin is judged no differently in the Bible and businesses make no effort to request permission to deny fornicators, prostitutes, or adulterers.

Most (all) of the cases I have seen so far involved providing services to celebrate a wedding. To many people, a wedding is sacred. Given there are plenty of other providers, there is plenty of room to accommodate religious beliefs. Otherwise it is just being petty and vindictive.

The opposite of hero is not villain, it is "bystander"
" In doing what we ought we deserve no praise, because it is our duty." -Aurelius Augustine
"But why do they use them to make Brawndo??!!"

Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451]

Arizona DEMs and GOPs lament the toll on their economy from this bill already.
Stats were quoted today showing increased cancellations at Grand Canyon, with a decreased # of visitors.
While GOP Business leaders could be more concerned about losing the Super Bowl than GLBT rights, they are scared .

Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Originally Posted by BretJ

Most (all) of the cases I have seen so far involved providing services to celebrate a wedding. To many people, a wedding is sacred. Given there are plenty of other providers, there is plenty of room to accommodate religious beliefs. Otherwise it is just being petty and vindictive.

I'd have to say that for such a special occasion, I certainly would not want to take my business to someone who would treat it like crap.

Originally Posted by Bucky

Welfare is a bad thing? It is essentially free money. It is not that bad.

Originally Posted by Bucky

I look at abortion the same way I do Pineapple Pizza.

Originally Posted by applejuicefool

A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.