WARNING:This conversion changes the operation of the pistol to use air at up to three times the pressure it was designed for. The parts that are installed are strong, but there are other parts in the gun that aren’t changed and could fail when subjected to the higher pressures. Pyramyd Air advises against making such a conversion. This report is for information, only.

This is the third look at converting a Crosman 2240 CO2 pistol to run on high-pressure air. In the last report, we saw how the conversion works with the factory barrel and factory striker spring. Today I will install a longer barrel with a steel breech and see what that does. Then I will add a stronger striker spring and see what that does.

Installation of a steel breech and longer barrel
Installing a Crosman steel breech and a Crosman 14.50-inch barrel on the 2240 pistol took all of 10 minutes. Four screws were removed, and both the plastic breech and barrel came off. After the detailed disassembly you saw in Part 1 of this report, this modification was a walk in the park.

Easy steps
The new breech was made by Crosman and sold by Pyramyd Air for $38, plus shipping. The barrel was also made by Crosman, and I bought it off eBay for $37 plus shipping. Together, these two parts have added about $85 to the cost of the gun, on top of the $65 for the air conversion that was given to me by Rick Eutsler. That’s an additional $150 I’ve put into this gun. And I’m not counting the adjustable stock and adapter that turns this pistol into a carbine. I’m not complaining about the cost, but don’t let anyone say this is a cheaper route than buying a Benjamin Discovery outright. What you get with this conversion is the time you need to make the investment. You can do this in easy steps.

First velocity test
I left the factory striker spring in place for this first test and pressurized the pistol to 2000 psi. Then, I shot the same 3 pellets I’ve been testing all along:

Below are the velocities on CO2 for the factory gun; then the velocities for the factory gun with the high-pressure air conversion; and finally the velocities for the gun with the steel breech, longer barrel and factory spring — all operating at 2000 psi.

Superdomes gave 14 shots on a 2000 psi fill. With the longer barrel, the low was 516 f.p.s. and the high was 534 f.p.s.

What have we learned?
Obviously, the pistol shoots faster with the longer barrel and no other changes. Adding the steel breech does strengthen the rear of the barrel, but it doesn’t add anything to velocity.

All 3 shot strings posted above started out slow and increased as the shots were fired. So, the pressure curve is about ideal when the fill is at 2000 psi.

The velocity increase from CO2 in the standard pistol to high-pressure air in the longer barrel is very significant. But by leaving the factory striker (hammer) spring in the gun, we’re not getting all this conversion has to offer.

Replace the striker spring with a heavier spring
The kit Rick Eutsler sent me contained two striker springs — both of which are stronger than the factory spring. I removed the factory spring and installed the spring that was the weakest of the two, though stronger than the factory spring. I wanted to keep the fill pressure at 2000 psi, and the strongest spring would not be the way to do that.

I filled the gun to 2000 psi and proceeded to shoot Crosman Premiers. Here are the first 8 shots.

581
577
576
575
578
576
570
568

The velocity dropped with almost every shot. Yes, there are a few exceptions, but the trend is generally down. What this means is that the new spring is too strong for the fill pressure of 2000 psi. The pistol wants to start at a higher pressure with this spring.

I decided to fill the gun to 2250 psi. This is above the maximum I wanted to use, but it illustrates the relationship I just mentioned and is worth a look. Let’s look at the velocities at this pressure.

Compare the above to the average velocity with the factory striker spring and longer barrel, which was 517 f.p.s. This is a huge increase of 71 f.p.s. The stronger striker spring gives more of a boost than the longer barrel by itself. But — and understand this — without the longer barrel, the stronger spring would only waste more air. This is a modification that requires all the components to work together. You can’t just pick one item and be done with it.

All three pellets gave me maximum shot strings of 10 shots when set up this way. Obviously, more air is being used and the volume of the reservoir has remained the same.

Evaluation to this point
We’ve taken this Crosman 2240 pistol from one power on CO2 to a much higher power with high-pressure air, a longer barrel, a stronger spring and a steel breech. These modifications cost a total of $150 over the cost of the initial pistol ($60). Is it worth it?

The answer will depend on who’s talking. Some shooters enjoy putting their hands on the parts of their airguns and making their own creations. Others look at the total investment and just want something that shoots well for the least amount of money. This 2240 modification is not for the latter group, because we still have to add a $60 RAI adapter and a $60 UTG Adjustable Stock. That brings the cost of the gun we’re modifying to a total of $330.

The next step is to try this modification for accuracy. For that, I’ll attach the adapter and stock, again. I think it has to be tested to at least 25 yards with a scoped gun.

WARNING:This conversion changes the operation of the pistol to use air at up to three times the pressure it was designed for. The parts that are installed are strong, but there are other parts in the gun that aren’t changed and could fail when subjected to the higher pressures. Pyramyd Air advises against making such a conversion. This report is for information, only.

Gunfun
I have no experience with a Airforce gun, but the breech and barrel can be changed quite fast on the 2240s.

I think if he went to the 14.5 inch barrel, he should have added one extension to increase the air volume. I know on mine with the 18 inch barrel it will have two extensions for the most air volume and shot count possible and if the fps are not up around 800fps on 2000 psi then I will go to 3000 psi.
I would like to get around 850 to 900fps out of the conversation when all is done.

Just ordered me some JSB 15.89 gr pellets and one more mag for the hatsan as well as one of those TF 90 dot sights.

buldawg
The stuff your going to put on your 2240 is .22 cal. right? I don’t think you will see 900 out of it with the 18” barrel in .22 cal. I ‘m thinking it will be around high 700’s to low 800’s in .22 cal. Maybe Your gun will surprise me if you go to 3000 psi.

And yep need to add at least one extension to get in the 20 shot count range to make usable shots. I didn’t get as good of results with my 15” .22 cal. barrel as I did with the longer .177 cal. barrels.

My best 2240 conversion gun is the one with the 23.5” long .177 cal. Discovery barrel. And the hi-pac with one extension. It will do a little over 30 shots before you see the POI starting to drop. But 25 shots are on the money.

And I think you just made 2 wise choices. I believe you will be surprised and like them both. The 15.89 JSB’s and the TF90. And the 15.89’s or for the Hatsan you got. Right? And is the TF90 going on your 2240 conversion by chance?

And getting done eating right now after work so I’m getting ready to unbox the Hatsan and put the Hawke scope on in just a few minutes.

Gunfun1,Good morning to ya.How many good usable shots are there in a Disco 177 strait off the shelf and what is the psi from after the fill of 2000 Thur that last usable shot? Been entertaining the idea of getting one simply for plinking hoping to get more shots per fill then my Mrod 22 cal.And carrying on my ATV because ATVs are hard on scoped high doller PCPs or any scoped gun that ya got a lot of money in.Iron sights is the answer.The Mrod is my go to for more serious work like squirrel hunting.Took the head off a copperhead snake yesterday while wade fishing with my little RWS P5 mag.I am following you guys comments on the Hatson and I know it won’t be any let down to this one.

G&G,nope I got a farm here and no worry about noise although if I ever decide to get a Disco I would be interested in a what you say about the brakes just because silence is golden when your hunting anything.

Steve
If you decide to put a brake on your gun to help with the report for out hunting I would check out a site that is in Poland and is where I got a moderator for my hatsan that is made by hatsan for my AT44. Its was half the price of a TKO and works excellent. There is virtually no report and I can hear the trigger release the hammer and it strike the valve stem over the report of the gun. Mine has 6 baffles and they offer ones with 8 baffles. They also offer universal fit ones that are held on with set screws in varying barrel diameters. I paid 46 buck for mine including shipping, you should google wolf airguns and check them out if you are contemplating getting one for any of your guns. it took about 2 weeks to arrive so shipping time is quite good.

I’ve owned a Discovery .177 and Benjamin pump for seven months. It is my only PCP.

From the factory, the rifle fired JSB 8.44 grain pellets at 890fps for 15fpe, and made ~27 – 30 full power shots before velocity decreased. When velocity drops, the rifle’s air gauge shows 1,000psi.

I installed an aftermarket power adjuster to increase the number of shots per air charge, and adjusted it to fire AA 10.34 grain pellets at 725fps for 12fpe. The rifle makes 45 full power shots with a 40fps spread in velocity.

I charge my rifle with a Benjamin hand pump. It takes 75 pump strokes to go from 1,000psi to 2,000psi.

Reducing power to 12fpe did make my rifle quieter, but, as others have written, the Discovery is loud.

My rifle consistently shoots 1/2″ at 25 yards.

The factory trigger had a smooth, but very heavy trigger pull. An aftermarket sear dramatically improved the trigger pull.

I like my rifle, especially for its consistent accuracy, light weight, and low price.

RB,thank you,that’s everything I need to know and it is good news to me because the shot count is impressive even without the aftermarket piece and more important then all accuracy is very good.Yes I enjoy quietness but its not the most thing.It can’t be as loud as my TalonP -w- 24” barrel. Down in this holler were my cabin is it sounds like one of those reactive targets! But I love the sound because it lets me know that this is one powerful 25 cal. and when I hit my game it never heard the BOOM anyway. Thanks for your respond it is very helpful in making my mind up.I have read many places for the money it can’t be beat and if one already has a hand pump,why not get.All those positive reviews is a good indicator.

steve
You will like theses little guns. They are really light weight; makes them easy to carry for long periods of time. Both of my teenage daughters run and fight over my 2240 conversion rifle of who gets to shoot it because they are so easy to use. I got to make another one so they can both have one.

My 2240 with the 23.5” Disco barrel will almost equal a Disco in performance. Its about 150fps slower than the Disco. Gets maybe 10 less usable shots than the Disco I had. And I only Have one extension on my 2240 plus the hi-pac. So you can by 4” extensions for 15 bucks a piece and add them together and make your air reservoir as long as you want it. I bet if you made it as long as the Disco’s reservoir is you would get I bet 80 shots out of this gun at the 2000 psi fill.

So when you put this combination of parts together on a 2240 you end up with a very efficient combination. And a lighter gun. Oh and my gun takes some where around 30 pumps I think it was when I filled it with the hand pump once just to see. And that was filling from 1000psi up to 2000 psi.

I think the Ideal combination would be the .177 full length Disco barrel with the hi-pac and 2 of the$15 dollar a piece extensions. It would give a good balance of power and shot count plus not to big of reservoir so it would still be easy to fill from a hand pump.

Somewhere along the line I missed that you had bought a Hatsan. Good for you. I am very curious how it works out for you. Which model did you get? Please let us know how you like it and especially how you do with accuracy. Thanks.

I got up this morning to sight it in and I have some interesting results so far but I got to shoot it some more to see if the results stay the same. And I haven’t chronyed it yet but I got out my trusty piece of wood I use also just to compare to the chrony results and the 10.34 JSB’s are sinking them deeper than all my other .177 cal. guns with this pellet. So I say the chrony results are going to be good.

And I will say this my Hawke scope is happy with its new home. I believe it will make its stay on the Hatsan. But I want to shoot it some more so I can get my fill pressure figured out better. But so far I’m liking what I’m seeing.

What I can say is its going to give my .177 cal. Marauder a run for its money. I know some people have different things to say about the Marauders and their barrels and such. But my .177 cal. synthetic stock Marauder must be a special one or something. Because in untouched form; shipped from the factory condition. It shoots is all I can say in all circumstances and even surprising results out to a hundred yards. And usable shots per fill is good on my Mrod. It will easy get 35 usable shots from a fill. And get 45 total shots.

So the Hatsan has its work cut out for it if it wants to compete with my .177 Mrod. And like I said maybe my Mrod is a special one. But all I can say is it shoots. I took a vacation day today so hopefuly I will no more by time the day is over. Because my planis to shoot it all day long. 🙂

Gunfun
Got any more of an update on your new toy since you left the post to G&G right before my reply back to about the pellets, mag and TF-90 sight I bought last night.

I am eager to hear if it has hurt your benji’s feelings or not and how happy you are with it. How many shot did you get on a fill. I want all the nitty gritty on it as soon as you can reply. Do you need another mag to match the shot count or not.

Gunfun
The JSB 15.89 gr are for the hatsan so I can test to see which pellet will be best for the sniper event. Now I will have 4 mags for my hatsan because I get 40 shots before the fps start to fall by over 20 fps spread.

The TF-90 dot sight does not have a decided home yet, I have to other dot sights also one being a 30mm NC star and a 50mm NC star that is on my 10/22 AR conversion. But it will most likely go on one of the 2240s I just have not decided yet, at the price I could not resist.

So you don’t think I will get close to 8 to 900 fps with the 18 inch barrel in 22 cal unless I go to 3000 psi. I can get in the high 800s now with it when pumped to 25 times, but I have no idea what the pressure is in the valve chamber when pumped that many times and it mat well be close to 3000 psi as it is hard to pump to 25 that’s for sure.

I will find out when I get it up and shooting and let you know.

Hope your hatsan is putting a smile on your face today and let me know how many shots you get on a fill and if you will need another mag.

buldawg
I did shoot the Hatsan more yesterday. And the gun will get 40 shots from 3000 down to 2000 psi. And that is what my gauge on the buddy bottle says when the needle is at 200 bar on the Hatsan gage on the rifle. But not all of them are usable. I will tell more in a second.

And I was getting some weird shots at the beginning of the fill when I started shooting it. Basically flyer’s. About 3 or 4 of the shots. So I thought it was fill pressure so I reduced the pressure. But was still getting those same flyer’s. I shot the gun down to 2000psi and I was down to 2400 psi on the start psi. Same thing flyer’s about 3 or 4 of them.

I ended up putting about 5 drops of the RWS silicone lube in the fill probe and charged the gun back to 3000psi. Same thing on my first shots. So I shot it down to 2000 and filled again. Next time around filled to 3000 psi and no flyer’s. Went out and shot about 3 fills through it this morning and all good now. So maybe something was going on inside of the air valve that transfers the air to the barrel. Maybe it was dry or something and not seating the seal right at first. I don’t know for sure but the gun shoots now. And 30 shots looks like what I will stay at. It will make about 5 shots into the 4th clip and I can see the point of impact dropping off. So just easier to only fill 3 clips.

It will put 10 shots in about a .600” jagged hole at 50 yards. The farthest I was able to shoot today was 75 yards and I had a empty 12 oz. soda can out there with it wedged under a log. Every shot hit a little under center mass and I was aiming the top of the can. And I did sight the gun at 50 yards and that was also at 6 power. It was a little over half mil dot of hold over to hit the can like I just said. So I think it will do pretty good out at the 100 yard mark but got called into work today and getting ready to leave now. So no more shooting till tomorrow.

buldawg
Maybe your 2240 conversion will surprise us. Its hard to predict what it will do in velocity.

I don’t have a long .22 cal. Disco barrel any more or I would try. I do know that when I did have the .22 cal. Disco barrel on a 1322 it shot faster and was more accurate at the 50 yrd. mark compared to the 15” barrel in .22 cal. And I think pellet choice is going to make a difference on the velocity part also. I don’t think you will be shooting anything over the 14 grn. pellets. Because those heavy ones I think anyway is going to slow it down to much and you will start getting that arched trajectory.

So hopefully you will get your hi-pac pretty soon so we can see what it really does. 🙂

Gunfun
I think you may have had a dry valve possibly, but there may have been some crude or grease in the barrel also and it took some shooting to clean it out. I know when I got mine it had a full charge in it and I went out and shot it down to the bottom of the green to yellow mark on the gauge of the gun which was forty shots. I was not doing any chrony or accuracy testing then so I cannot say if I had any flyers or not. When I got my fill adapter and started the sighting in and chronying I did not get any shots that I could verify as flyers because I have some trembling and shakiness when aiming guns so it is somewhat hard to tell if the ones that are outside of the main groups are flyers or me shaking when pulling the trigger. My sighting for the most part was well grouped ten shot groups.

That’s a bummer having to work today.

I am not planning on the 2240 conversions to be shooting any thing other than mainly the 14.3 gr crosmans so that’s all I am hoping to be able to get close to 900 fps with in the hi-pac guns. I am going to build two from the two 2240s I have bought, I will start with the used one that has the 1399 stock already on it. I just got the tracking number for it because the seller was out of town working until yesterday and sent me an invoice for the total of 54.75 for the gun and 9.01 for shipping so it cost me 63.76 total for the 2240 with 1399 stock.

I have a question you may be able to answer for me. I called crosman today to get prices for a steel breech, the power adjuster that the 2300 comes with stock, the hand grip on the SSP250 and bracket and barrel band to mount a forearm on the 2240, the bracket and band are obsolete so those will be gotten from ebay. I asked for prices on barrels, one for a disco in 24″ length at 28.56 bucks and one for a Mrod in 20″ length at 28.81 bucks and 4.00 bucks shipping regardless of number of items. My question is can/does the Mrod barrel be made to fit the 2240 tube and breech or does it or the breech need to be modified to make it work. The Mrod barrel is 20 inches so that is close enough to 18 inches or would it be easier to just get the disco barrel and shorten it if I wanted to. I may just leave it 24 inches also the price is not enough of a difference to matter so its mainly up to ease of fitment.

Hope you get some time with your hatsan and you may only get 30 shots because your air cylinder is only 180 CCs. How loud is it compared to your Mrod and other PCP guns. Do you need that moderator.

And the Mrod barrel is a bigger diameter if I remember right.It wont fit the breech. And I think the main tube will innerfere with the bigger barrel maybe. Dont have both in front of me to tell.

And its as quiet as my Mrod. But it makes a horrible ping when it shoots. I will have to put a piece of soft foam type rubber inbetween the stock and resivoir like the synthetic stock Mrods have. That quiets them up nice.

Gunfun
That’s what I needed to know about the barrels, so I will go with the disco barrel because I know it fits without any modification. My hatsan has a good ping to it to especially with the moderator on it. You hear the mechanical noise of the trigger and hammer movement first and then the ping, the ping in mine is more of a dull poing rather than a loud ping. if I shoot it without the moderator I never hear the ping, but my hearing is not that good either.

Where do you put the rubber at on the tube, where it slides thru the support ring of the stock. I also have another issue with mine that I don’t know if you can help with. When I try to fill the cylinder with my hand pump it leaks air at the quick connect fittings between the pump hose and the adapter fitting on the gun, but when I fill it with my scuba tank it will leak for about 1 or 2 seconds and then you hear a click and the leak stops and it fills fine. Its like the male end of the adapter is not quite long enough to fit in the o-ring in the female fitting until there is enough pressure to force the o-ring up on the male end and create a seal. Have you tried to fill yours with your hand pump yet or can you and let me know if you have the same issue. It looks like the adapter male end where the o-ring would seal is shorter than my other male foster fittings by maybe 20 or 30 thousands. I am wondering if the adapter was made wrong, mine is black in color and has the end for the o-ring to seal on rounded rather than a 90 degree end like the other fittings I have.

RR
Either way the 2240/1377/1322 and so on is a very modular gun like the AirForce guns. Crosman just don’t market them that way. Well I guess they do with the custom shop.

The only problem I see with Crosman verses AirForce is you have to find part numbers for the barrel you want from Crosman. Air Force openly list each type of barrel they have available. Its much easier to find the AirForce barrel you want verses the Crosman barrel. Been there done that too.

Gunfun
just a quick post to let you know I got my GRTIII trigger today for the firepower break barrel and bot it pit in. Man it is night and day difference in the trigger, the stock one had a pretty good feel with a definite first and second stage of sorts but was not real smooth and did not have a precise feel as to when it would release. The GRTIII trigger on the other hand has a short first stage that I may have to lengthen some and a definite crisp and precise release point that makes this gun much easier to shot accurately, I think I will shoot it some more before playing with the first stage as once I get used to it I will be ok. I will have to be careful when I let my grand kids shoot it till they get used to it because it will fire before you realize you have squeezed the trigger that much it is so smooth and crisp.

I like this break barrel more and more every time I shoot it and now with the GRTIII trigger it is even nicer to shoot.
Buldawg

Reb
Nope now it a 74 dollar break barrel gun, it is the same gun as a crosman quest 1000x, phantom, opitmus and sierra models as they all have the same power plant as mine and the GRTIII trigger fit right in the gun just like it would for the crosman guns.

I like it more and more all the time because all you need to shoot is pellets and it is very accurate also.

buldawg
Sounds like the trigger on my HW50S. It scares me sometimes when I’m shooting it. I have to very lightly rest my finger on the trigger after I take up the first stage. And I know after that if I apply any pressure the gun is going off.

Ain’t it nice to have a trigger that takes less weight to pull then what the gun weighs. I don’t see any kind of way for a gun to be accurate with a heavy trigger. I guess there is some good shooting guns out there with heavy triggers but the geometry probably helps them out.

But glad you like your break barrel. I love my HW50S. Its always fun to shoot and in more ways than one.

Gunfun
Yea that GRTIII trigger is great, but after shooting it quite a bit today I need to put a little longer first stage in it because you cannot really feel a first stage before you hit the second and it is so short and crisp it fires almost before you think it is going to.

I did quite bit of sighting with it today and I could get quarter size groups at 35 yards very easily but when sighting at fifty it would get flyers on ten shot groups I could get in the bulls 3 or 4 and the rest would be out of the bulls by as much as 2 inches. There was a 5 mph or so cross wind at time and I think the CPs 7.9s were just a little to light to maintain good trajectory out to the fifty yards. Do you think that 10,9 grs would be better at the longer range.

If the original trigger was like my Gamo NRA-1000 Special — the “first stage” was nothing except the trigger return spring, it did nothing in moving the sear contact. The GRT-III, OTOH, adds a real first stage moving the sear, then transitions to the second stage (reduced leverage so slightly higher pull, but more movement of the sear for any given movement of the trigger).

Wulfraed
I like the GRTIII for sure, but I cannot really feel the difference between the first and second all that well. To adjust the trigger stages does the gun have to be cocked or not because with it uncocked there is no difference in the feel of it when moving from a rest position to the full rearward position of being fired. After shooting quite a bit Saturday I cannot really distinguish between the first and second stages, actually the stock trigger had a better feel even if it was just spring take up you could feel when the trigger came to a definite harder pull stage before it would release. Now with the GRT it is just so smooth that I can’t tell the first from second and the trigger is very sensitive and has a short pull range till release.

The instructions say it should not need adjustment but I think that it may because like I said I can’t feel two distinct stages.

It needs to be cocked, since you need to have the back pressure of the mainspring applying pressure to the sear engagement.

I’ll confess mine isn’t adjusted yet either — I had too many dry-fires when setting my M54 T01 trigger (I discovered it had been shipped with NO first stage, and a long second stage); got to the point I was shoving cleaning pellets into the bore just to avoid a totally dry release.

The first stage screw is positioned so that it has the high leverage on the sear but needs a lot of trigger movement to make a small movement on the sear engagement. The second stage takes over when the plane of the sear level becomes parallel to the screw tips in the trigger. After that point, the second stage screw (for any given trigger move) moves faster than the first stage — but is closer to the sear pivot so needs more force to effect any move.

Some people may think my m54 has too long a first stage — I’m adjusted just short of having contact with the sear lever; that ensures that cocking the piece results in FULL sear engagement (making the first stage shorter means the screw has already pushed the sear lever before one touches the trigger). My second stage is almost nil — but has a distinct pressure increase on the finger, so I can draw the first stage and /hold/ until the sights are right before the last pressure /breaks/ the “glass”.

Eventually I’ll risk police interference (unless that MI bill gets passed and pre-empts the city, it is technically illegal to even fire a BB gun in the basement [unless I ask the police to first approve a 10m airgun range in said basement]) and adjust the triggers on the collection [I need to check the Marauder, Silhouette, NRA-1000, and MP-46m settings, and fine-tune the m54].

Wish I could do simple illustrations here. Best I can do is link to this piece on the M54 — the trigger illustration is similar to what I recall the GRT-III does.

Wulfraed
I remember seeing that exact forum post about 6 months ago when I rebuilt a 54 for a friend of the CMP range director here in town. That was the smoothest shooting springer I have ever had the pleasure of shooting, but it would be a beast if you were going to do any hunting with it as it was a heavy gun. The sliding action is a piece of marvelous design.

I did play with my GRT trigger adjustments today and backed the first stage out till I had some free play in the trigger and then turned in until the free play was just taken up, it was about 1/4 turn in to far. Then screwed the second stage screw in about a 1/16 of a turn in to add a little longer second stage and then had to turn the first stage back in to where it was originally to take up free play again. I was just getting ready to go shoot it when I got your post. All the adjustments were done per the instructions with the trigger from Charlie.

The illustration for the 54 does make it easier to see what the two screws actually do so I think I will go shoot it and get back to you with the results of my adjustments.

Wulfraed
I just got done shooting the gun and to be honest I cannot really tell much difference, it seems to be a little more sensitive in that it takes less pressure and movement to release. There is no feel of a first or second stage just barely apply pressure to the trigger and it releases. The safety still works and you can smack the side of the gun and it does not fire so I am going to leave it where it is and shoot it some more until it grows on me.

I’d almost suspect you have the settings were there is no transition. OTOH, as I mention, I’ve not had time to adjust the GRT-III on my Gamo NRA-1000 yet. So I don’t know how much trigger stacking will take place. Only that the original trigger had no real 2-stage, the “first stage” is just moving the trigger against the return spring until it finally contacts the sear.

I also prefer the second stage to be a brick wall, essentially NO trigger movement once the the 2nd stage screw makes contact.

Adjusting the second stage screw should NOT affect the free-play of the first stage. If it does, it means your second stage screw is already moving the sear before the first stage screw is touching it (at least, as my mental image of the system is). Going back to the m54 illustration, free-play occurs when neither screw touches the sear lever. First stage is when only the first stage screw touches; second stage takes over when the rise of the trigger is sufficient for the top of the second stage screw to be higher than the first stage (allowing for the plane of the sear lever).

That’s why I had so many dry fires when setting the m54 — I had to back out the 2nd stage all the way (remember, my m54 came with no first stage at all, it was all second stage — which I only realized after I’d cut off some of the trigger to get more adjustment on the first stage; unneeded as it turned out), and then adjust it in steps while pulling trigger on a cocked action. When the 2nd stage screw made contact is was obvious — it went from hummingbird 1st stage to owl 2nd.

I tried to find the answer to this last night and again this morning but would I be correct in assuming that this gun should give about the same velocity on co2 as 2000psi because that was the case in our last test? Or would the fact that co2 would still have the barrel for expansion and build more pressure, raise it’s velocity slightly more than air? I ask this question in the lines of a real life scenario where one must save for a hpa source after funding previous modifications to the gun. What about this transitional period

Sorry Rikkochet,
That was supposed to go at the bottom and be addressed to B.B. I tried to get some rest last night in order to be a little sharper before asking. Alas, the popping in my rib cage kept me up all night.

While I would never expect it to exceed HPA using CO2,, I am curious as to how much it may have increased because of the stronger spring and longer barrel. It would seem that the combination would generate higher velocities than the original gun.

If this is the case,, then someone on a limited budget might opt for an incremental approach.

Another question I had on my mind after reading Buldawg’s posts is,, just how high a pressure do YOU believe would be a prudent limit. Obviously, one could keep increasing until catastrophic failure,,, but that person couldn’t be described as prudent by anyone.
Ed

edlee
When you stated about what would be a prudent pressure to fill to in reference to my earlier post, I hope you did not think that I would exceed the max limit for this conversion of 3000 psi. The hi-pac system is rated for a max of 3K psi and I would not fill over that to try to get the fps to what I want. If I can’t get near 900 fps on 3K psi of air I can always play with hammer and valve spring tension to get the fps I want. I will be building two basically identical 2240 hi=pac conversations so I can build and tune them for different uses or needs. There are many ways to skin a cat, but I would always do it with safety in the forefront of all other issues. I have no intentions of building a bomb since my grand kids will be using these gun as much if not more than me due to what Gunfun has already stated in that they are light weight accurate guns to build and shoot.

I really hate to be “that guy” and if it were just you and me talking I would keep it to myself, but this is a forum and I try to be helpful to your readers.

I am gritting my teeth as I type this and I hope I am not being presumptuous but…. I think you may have overpaid for that barrel. WAY overpaid. I bought an 18 inch .22 barrel direct from Crosman (item # 2400-102) to install in a 1377. The price was $13.82.

Now, this was 2009 dollars, and I might be missing something, and I have been wrong once before. It just seems as though that price on eBay is a bit of a rip.

SL
I haven’t priced one of them lately. But your right they were relatively cheap barrels direct from Crosman. I’m glad you said something though. I was going to bring it up but didn’t know how I was going to say it.

As you know, when you order from Crosman you must have part numbers for what you want, they will not provide them for you based on descriptions, even if they are specific. The Crosman (green forum) is a great resource in this regard. Especially this page: http://www.network54.com/Realm/CFTech/partnumbers.htm

BB
You have to pull up their parts diagrams on their website and find the barrel you want that will fit your particular model. Then get the part number off of that same diagram page and then order from Crosman.

There is numerous barrels from other Crosman/Benjamin guns that will fit the 2240.

Gunfun and to everyone here
If you are going to order from crosman I strongly suggest that you do so by phone rather than online thru there website. If you order online you will pay up to three times the cost for shipping than if you order by phone. I know from experience because I ordered a steel breech from them online and it was 11 dollars and some change in shipping, I then ordered another one from them by phone a couple months later and it is a flat 4 bucks shipping no matter how big or small the order is or whether it is one part or ten parts. So when ordering from them look up your part numbers on their website’s part manuals and call them to order and you pay a flat 4 bucks shipping.

buldawg
I always order over the phone when I get something from Crosman. But make sure you got part numbers ready. And I tell them how many parts I will be getting on that order. Its like you make their day when yo give them some details and you have the part numbers ready.

And yep that the way I have them shipped also.

But got to ask one question. Do they still have a wait period for crowning when you order a barrel. Back probably 4 years ago I believe it was when I was ordering different barrels from them you had to wait at least a week for crowning before the barrel was even shipped.

So if I needed other parts I would call back with a separate order for my barrel I was ordering so my other parts would get shipped right away.

And you know I said I want to build a .25 cal. version of the 2240 conversion. That’s one of the things that bums me out about the .25 cal. barrels. Crosman doesn’t have any barrel that are a slip in fit for this series of guns with this steel breech. I can already see I got a little work to do when it comes time for me to make that gun.

Gunfun
I can’t answer the question about having the crown a barrel as I never knew that that service was available so have not asked the delay time.

I did some more research on barrels that will interchange with the 13xx and 22xx models and found that 2250, 2260 would also work but the parts list does not state length but they appear in the diagram to be at least 14.5 inches if not 18, or maybe even 20 on those two guns. It also looks like a crosman challenger barrel would work, but they are 177 only and are 24 inch.

Do you by chance know what the barrels lengths on the 2250 and 2260 are by chance or would crosman tell you that if you give them the numbers, I know they will not look up number for you I just do not know if they can/will tell you the length if you give them the number.

buldawg
Check out the Marauder and Discovery diagrams. See how they have a separate page for the parts listing. They tell how long their barrels are. I don’t see that extra page for the 2250,2260 and 2289 for some reason. They just have the part number on the print. Anyway let me know what you come up with.

BB
I’m going to make a request and I hope you do it so I can see if I get to eat my words.

When you do the 25 yard test can you put a small fixed 4 or 6 power scope on the gun and use the .22 cal. Crosman premiers in the tin. (Not) the ones in the box. I don’t remember if you said the ones you are using right now or from the tin or the box.

But here’s where I get to eat my words maybe. And of course this is with the RAI adapter and AR stock on the gun also.

But I’m going to make a prediction. I’m going to say the gun with the barrel you have on it now with just the hi-pac and no extension’s is going to make a one hole group with a .300” center to center group with 5 shots taken. I could say a 10 shot group but its going to run out of air to fast without at least one extension.

So what do you think. Will you give it a try before you change the gun around or try other types of sights? I want to see what happens.

And remember one of the benifits of this gun is its light weight. So a small scope or a red dot is right at home on this gun. And I bet it will be lighter than a Discovery when youe done with it. Even with the RAI adapter and AR stock. I like the RAI setup but if you want the gun to turn out even lighter use the Crosman custom 1399 stock that sells for like 29 bucks and some change. You will have a nice little light weight rifle thats easy to hold.

BB
I just suggested the ones in a tin so somebody wouldn’t say the gun grouped good because of the pellets being the ones from the box.

And the regular premiers in the box or tin have worked better for me than the hollow points. And the Benjamin’s; well that throws my prediction out the door because I haven’t tryed those in .22 cal. but ok if you say they are the same.

Either way I hope you try that before you go to the TF90. And that will give you a little data to use for when you do the next part of the TF90 report also. What do ya think. Is it a go?

Like I said before, I do not see me going out and buying one of these pistols, but should I run across one at a yard sale I would probably snatch it up. The ability to easily upgrade it almost hooked me years ago and now the ability to convert it to air set the hook for sure.

I just hope I don’t run across one in the near future. I have two other airgun projects I need to finish up first.

BB
I’m going to pick on your photography this time. Or is this a test to see if I’m paying attention.

Why does it look like the breech and hi-pac have multiple horizontal lines on them. I can see a little bit on the muzzle end of the barrel too. But the main air tube doesn’t have any lines. What caused that when you took the picture?

Those lines are called specular highlights. You get them from reflective surfaces. The new breech and barrel are colored with black oxide that is shiny. The main tube doesn’t have them because it isn’t reflective.

I am really enjoying this series as I have considered doing something similar but have been too timid to begin especially when comparing total cost and what you get from it compared to a disco or a p-rod. Thanks and please continue.

Reb,I’m gonna eat a little crow here.Remember a few days ago when I said that taking a airgun apart was something I’d never do?Well today I was forced to because my favorite little RWS p5 mag.went down and would not fire after cocking it.It’s either send it off or fix and save money.Took it apart and found the issue back in business.This little pistol nails pop cans open sight easily at 60 and 80 feet. can’t let it die just yet!

Steve,
I’m glad you were able to get it figured out. It’s a whole lot funner fixing and shooting your own guns than waiting for someone else to get around to it and then ask for your first born. Most of this stuff can be fairly simple at least on the surface.If you dig a little deeper though, it’s easy to get in over your head.
Good job and now, have Fun!

I am particularly interested in the accuracy now that you have put a longer Crosman barrel on the 2240.

I am not expecting an improvement because it’s longer. I want to know if it will be more accurate because it’s a Crosman barrel. Out of curiosity, would it have been possible to put a Lothar Walther match grade barrel on it? Or any other maker’s barrel? Additional FPS without improved accuracy does not make it a better, more desirable or even more useful gun IMHO.

I know that you are fond of Crosman barrels but obviously the proof will be in the pudding. Both of my most accurate Crosman guns, the Silhouette and the 1720T, have factory Lothar Walther barrels on them.

If I had to machine it then it would be impossible. Only thing in my garage is cars, Christmas decorations and airgun boxes for future shipping. I do have plenty of hand tools but I don’t think any of them would work. With the possible exception of funds (although I’m not convinced of that) I think I’m the average guy.

G&G
I agree with Gunfun, crosman barrels are quite good quality and accurate. I have put an 18 inch one on my 2289 and it is a tack driver. I also upgraded/restored my 45 year old crosman 1400 pumper with a new disco barrel due to the rifling in the original 1400 barrel being removed by unknown number of pellets being shot thru it by me from 12 years old until probably in my early twenties. I had a new steel breech modified to fit the 1400 pump tube mounting points and installed a 24 inch disco barrel and it to is a tack driver with match grade diopter target iron sights.

It is the same loudness when the velocity drops. In the first test the gun was loud. But when the velocity increased the discharge noise was reduced by half. However, by the end of the shot string it was just as loud again.

G&G
Whats funny is you take my 2240 conversion with the Disco barrel and 2000psi fill with the same pellets and compare that to a Discovery rifle in the same caliber and the 2240 conversion is quieter. With my guns anyway.

Now the 2240 makes about 150 fps less than my Discovery does so I imagine that would help to make the 2240 quieter. But the thing is it is much quieter. Again my guns that I have shot.

I can appreciate the lure of higher pressure air but using the pressure beyond the design specs would have me fleeing for cover. Stay safe, B.B.

103David, if the space inside the T34s is that small that would explain the classic YouTube comment on the Mosin Nagant: “Them Russians must have pretty short arms.” Ha ha. Vladimir Klitschko, the 6’8″ heavyweight boxing champ would be an exception. I’ve never seen a T34 in person, but using low quality steel does seem very out of character for the Russians. Their products tend to be indestructible. Maybe the reason for the high death rate from the tanks was their practice of ramming the individually superior German tanks, a tactic seen widely in the ultimate tank battle of all time at Kursk. I hope the 800 rounds of corrosive ammo I bought for my Mosin Nagant is an improvement over the WWII variety (mine was made in the 70s). Anyway, I’m armed with the best advice for cleaning the ammo which field troops did not have.

Thanks for the mountain man reference. I once read a book on a mountain man who was supposed to be a model for Robert Redford in Jeremiah Johnson. Perhaps this is the book. One scene I remember is when the mountain man is swimming his horse across a river. An Indian youth, for revenge or some other purpose, is pursuing him. The kid is stark naked and takes a picturesque dive off a cliff into the river and then comes swimming after him with his knife in his teeth and his eyes like live coals. The mountain man decides to acknowledge the foe by pulling out his own knife and sliding into the water to wait for him!? Obviously, he wasn’t a follower of the principle that there is no such thing as a fair fight.

Gunfun1, I have heard that the bullet trajectory ensures that at targets closer than the sight-in distance, the bullet will strike low. So that is consistent with your method for using red dots. I guess there are various ways of using the edge as well as the interior if your dot is clearly defined. Wulfraed, you should read David Tubb on eye gymnastics with the open sights. He will jump back and forth between front and rear sights a few times to check alignment, and the whole time he is using his other eye to check a bubble level located near his front sight. This reminds me of Apache helicopter pilots with the flip down visor over one eye. One pilot’s wife noticed that he was using his eyes independently. She asked him if he could read the two facing pages of a book at the same time, and he could! That is probably why Apache pilots have splitting headaches when they start their training.

FredDPRofNJ, you have hit the M1 jackpot on several counts. I got a Springfield rifle because of the history, and I have been gratified to hear Clint Fowler singing the praises of their products. But I understand that Harrington and Richardson (which I think was a typewriter company) produced rifles that are at least as good. Some collectors are very concerned about matching parts, but if that doesn’t bother you, I’m sure everything will work. I believe that the numbers you quote refer to muzzle wear (MW) and throat erosion (TE) which are the standard measures of wear for rifles (at least CMP rifles). Rifles scoring 1 in each category have been described as pristine and “mirror-bright.” I’ve never heard of one scoring 0. And in addition to all that, you’ve got B.B. in person taking the rifle apart for you. Some people have all the luck. So what ammo do you plan to shoot in it? The surplus ammo at the CMP has dried up since I bought from there. The site says in part that is because of cases like one fellow who loaded his pick-up to capacity on successive days with this ammo. Unless you are relying entirely on this supply, I hope you know how to reload.

Vince, Clint Fowler mentioned the Criterion barrel to me as an option for my M1 and said that he had “not been unhappy” with the results. Coming from a Distinguished shooter and two-time winner of the Nathan Hale trophy at Camp Perry (for highest-scoring civilian), I guess that means the barrel was good. I opted for a new G.I. barrel instead because of another story he told me. He said that the barrels from the Springfield armory were of a piece with the outstanding workmanship on the rest of the rifles. And when the Armory was dissolved, their machinery was bought up by the Krieger company and used to make their famous target barrels. Not sure if this is true, but I can’t say that my barrel has held me back so far.

I do reload but since I won’t be shooting the M1 that frequently, I don’t plan to buy the dies or the military style primers needed to avoid the “slam fire” peril, for awhile. CMP was/is (?) selling Greek surplus ammo but I didn’t like it’s condition so I was able to buy 525 rounds of Lake City ammo from them. A bit more expensive but I think higher quality. The ammo was shipped in an olive drab painted darn spam can that one opened with a key similar to a real spam can or sardine tin. Weight is 33 lbs. The ammo was made in 1952 so I think I’m good until the apocalypse. I also was able to purchase 25 enbloc clips for $20 that they were selling.

CMP mentions it in the manual they supply. When the bolt slams shut, there apparently is enough kinetic energy to move the firing pin out and strike the primer producing a slight dimple. They warn that standard civilian primers may be too sensitive and ignite from this. Apparently the CCI 34 primer is a military type primer that won’t be set off by a slight dimpling produced by the firing pin. However, as I said earlier, I probably won’t start reloading for a year or so unless something ridiculous happens when I start shooting the M-1.

I brought that up the other day to RDNA about the copter pilot’s and that flip down eye piece.

What happens with me is I shoot with both eyes open. And if I get the power right of the particular sight I’m using it becomes natural for both of my eyes to focus. The higher the power I use the more it try’s to make my off eye take over though. So for each gun I shoot I definitely like a scope that I can adjust the magnification. Or a lowered power fixed scope is fine also in the 4 to 6 power range.

And I think that is also the reason I like dot sights so much. Its easy to keep both eyes open and when I see the target I can shoulder the gun real quick and basically point and shoot. Very quick acquisition time.

But ain’t that one heck of a sight and weapon system that the Apache uses.

That’s a little different than I would have done. I was thinking just a bit shorter barrel than you used to try and keep the original profile of the gun. My goal is to keep it as light as possible and keep it so I can holster it as a squirrel hunting back up just in case I need to draw and get a close in follow up shot. As any hunter will tell you sometimes the best sighted in target can sometimes go wrong and you need that quick #2 shot that a single shot break barrel or pcp can’t get you. So you drop your main, grab your secondary and finish the job. That’s a bit of a purpose built gun but that’s what I am working on.

Another scenario is when trapping groundhogs that decided to take up residence under our apartment building. It’s my job to get rid of them. I can’t sit outside waiting in ambush with a gun with a school so close without having a full CNN worthy swat call out so I have to be a bit sneaky about it. I set a trap and wait. The groundhog hits the trap and I sometimes need to get out there and finish the job. Dragging out a rifle is a bit impractical since I need to keep things quiet and a co2 pistol doesn’t have what it takes. So I need to design a little pcp powerhouse like a tiny pistol version of the disco I can whip out, quickly cock and fire and leave very little to see so I don’t end up on CNN. I’ll do more than just turn it into a pcp gun. I’ll be upgrading the valve and a few more tricks to get every last bit of power out of it. But my goal is to keep it as small as possible.

That’s what I tried, but it would just knock it aside. So I ended up going with a smaller lighter one and rigging it so that the groundhog had no choice but to hit it. But the smaller one with the lighter trigger doesn’t always give me the desired results. One got it stuck on his head so I ended up finishing it off with an air rifle. This one got stuck in it and strangled so I had to finish him off too. I don’t want the animal to suffer any more than it has to and I really don’t want to be spun into the next Sandy Hook shooter when all I was doing is pest control where I live. You know how the media builds things up from a mole hill into a world ending meteor strike. So my need is something where I can go about my work without anybody knowing what I am doing. Plus I like the challenge of building what I need.

Yeah, not something I need right now. Granted open carry is legal in Michigan but liberals force the cops to over react. But I have a feeling they get a rush out of acting like a guy with a pellet gun equals an Afghanistan style insurgency problem.

You only need to stake the trap. They can’t move it then. You can do that with wood or rebar stakes through the spring rings on each side. Another option is to use a commercial trap stabilizer. Check out the web site below.

I’ll look into those. Me being me and a veteran I found an old fashioned solution. I staked it out by the chain with a tent stake. To keep it upright I grabbed some inner cord from some 550 paracord tied one end to a rock and the other end to the top of the trap then wedged the rock into a crack in the steps. It might not have been the right way to do things but it worked. I got the beast and then finished it off with a shot to the brain bucket. Made sure it didn’t have to suffer overly wrong with it’s head in the trap and I wasn’t going to have to risk dealing with an angry live rodent of extraordinary size (R.O.E.S.) This isn’t “The Princess Bride”.

John
I agree on your thoughts of having a back up gun for that quick shot or last chance defense.

When I used to hunt wild boar in the Florida swamps on the upper west coast near Perry and Cross city. I would carry a Ruger 44 magnum carbine and have my Dirty Harry 44 mag revolver in the holster on my side. The boars we hunted could run as bog as 800 pounds and if you did not get a clean kill shot they would turn and chase you in to a tree. You could not always climb the tree with rifle in hand fast enough so having a pistol that used the same ammo as your rifle made it easier to carry ammo and also take care of the hog trying to up root the tree you were in. Although as I later learned by a seasoned boar hunter that lived in the area it is far easier to kill a big boar by cutting its throat than shooting it. I was just never that brave to trust my dogs to hold it down to be able to get to the throat to cut it.

I was in my early twenties and he was in his forties and had hunted them there since childhood and found it easier to hunt them with 8 to 10 pit bulldogs and a couple airdales that would bark to give him a location and all he would carry was a 10 inch bowie knife to cut their throat.

BB and Edith if I have posted something that is not allowed or frowned on here by providing this link please let me know or do not allow this to go through, but I feel that we all should be aware of this petition and be able to support and voice are views if we so chose to do so.

Me too! only 62,248 to go!I liked shooting the cb shorts in my Rem.550-1 26″ bbl for their minimal report and it was a deadly combination out to 60 yards although 20 was about as far of a shot as you’d get in the East Tx. piney woods where I used it.

Will do! I went out to the shed today to verify what I had in the grease gun and sure enough it’s that real thick, heavy moly we used to pack the CV joints with. A little dab’ll do! The seal and piston have been vacuum sealed for over a week now so I’m sure I’ll have a little work to do on the piston and I’ve yet to perform any final cleaning to prevent rust(glad too it’s been very humid here!) but most of the deburring is done.
One thing that bothered me was that the pin that holds the end plug in used to drift from side to side between shots, leaving notches in the stock. Ever heard of a good way to stop that? Ya think loctite would work, it’s not threaded but?

Reb
My B-3s have a plastic cover that fits on the end of the receiver before it is put in the stock that keeps the pin from moving back and forth causing damage to the stock. I would think that once the spring and end plug are in place that the spring tension would keep the pin from moving back and forth in the receiver and prevent it from contacting the stock. Since mine have a plastic cover on the rear of the receiver I don’t know if the pin moves or not because it cannot be seen. If your gun does not have a plastic cover to hold the pin in place and prevent contact with the stock I would fix that problem either by finding a piece of round plastic or metal that will slip snugly over the end of the receiver tube at the pin end and still fit in the stock which means it would be about 1/16 inch thick, or use a bolt and nut the same diameter as the pin ( probably a 1/4 x 20 bolt or a 8mm x 1.50 pitch ) and clearance the stock to allow the receiver to fit down in to the stock.

I would try to find something round to make a end cover first before using a bolt and having to clearance the stock.

The cover that I am referring to is part # 1 in this schematic and although this is not the correct schematic for your gun the rear cover should be the same as it is the same part that both my B-3s use.
That’s why I say see if you can find something round that will fit on the end of the receiver to hold the pin from moving side to side. Good luck and let me know how it works.

I have been reloading 30-06 for my M1,s since 1962. I used a variety of standard rifle primers. I had 3 M1,s and never had a slam fire.( one was a welded M1, it functioned as well as the Springfield a nd the Winchester). I did have slamfire problems with a Chinese SKS, but only with cases that had small rifle primers. I have one SKS now, a Russian. I replaced its floating firing pin with an aftermarket spring loaded pin. Ed

The area from the valve to were the hi-pac means nothing. I think the question you should ask is what is the volume of the hi-pac ? And what is the volume of each extension ?

Remember a 12 gram Co2 cartridge went into that area of the tube on the 2240 before the conversion. Now that area is filled with the hi-pac with the similar shape of the 12 gram cartridge.

It makes you think there is more area there then there really is. I would like to know the true volume also. I didn’t really look into that when I was checking out the hi-pac website. But yes it would be nice to know.

Joe
And the combination of the 2240 valve and the hi-pac makes for a very efficient little package. I wish I would of knew about these sooner. I’m sure I would have a few more than what I have now.

And whats funny is I use to always pass up the 2240’s because of the C02 and get the 1377 or 1322 pumpers instead. Now I wish I would of got some of those 2240’s that I ran across in the past. But how was I to know that it would go from a gun that I didn’t care about and then end up being one of my favorite guns thanks to the hi-pac conversion.

buldawg
About the anti-ping deal. Crosman didn’t have that on the first Gen. Mrod models. People would take and put a piece of 1/8” thick rubber about 2” wide inside of the air reservoir. Yep depressurise and then take the front fitting off the air tube. Roll it up tight add a little silicone grease and slip it in to about the middle of the reservoir. Oh and cut to the right length so when it unrolled it fit the inside diameter of the air reservoir with no overlap or gap. In other words a nice full diameter fit. Then put the fitting back in and fill’r up and shoot. No more ping.

On the 2nd Gen. Mrods the piece of rubber is on the outside of the air reservoir and between the stock. It s about 3” back from where the front of the stock begins. And I looked at my Hatsan and I believe I will put it right behind the barrel band a bout a 1/4 of a inch. And there is definitely a gap between the reservoir and stock that would easily allow a piece of rubber to fit there. So that will be definitely be happn’n on my Hatsan.

And about the fill fitting leak you said you have. I have had to replace my o-ring that fits inside the female quick disconnect on my hand pumps and my buddy bottle a few times over the years. That o-ring is probably the worst one for wear. Because it is constantly being sealed and unsealed. So One thing is that I’m not familiar with the pump that you have so I don’t know what brand Foster female quick disconnect it uses but I bet the o-ring is getting wore. Let me know if it is the o-ring. Oh and all my Foster male fittings are rounded on the end.

Gunfun
I went to the field target range today, and what I thought was the range was only the sight in range. The field target range is across the road from the sighting range and it is excellent. I t ahs about 20 to 25 shooting stations that target in the shape of various animal figures with a kill zone target from the size of a dime up to a half dollar depending on the distance to the target and size of target. they are shaped like birds, squirrels, rabbits and so on. You hit the kill zone and the target falls and then you pull a string to reset it. The targets are on downhill slopes, across ravines , in trees, in between two trees, on up hill slopes and pretty much all terrain you would actually encounter game on. It is very well set up with well marked shooting stations. I was not aware of the Field target range when I went last Wednesday. I made the mistake of getting there late this morning by about 29 minutes so it was after the shooters meeting. I did not realize they were across the road shooting and was sighting my break barrel in at the fifty yards when they came driving out from across the road, I went and had some lunch with them and we went back and shot at the targets for a while.

It was much different than I had thought it would be there three classes to shoot in, two only require max of 12 fpe and either require shooting from off hand ,kneeling and sitting. The hunter class which is what I would be trying out allow max of 20 fpe and allow for the use of stools or buckets to sit on and bipods to shoot with. I cannot hold the gun still in off hand shooting , can’t kneel well from bad right knee and sitting on the ground is painful and difficult to get up from so it will be hunter class fro me.

There are some very serious shooters there that’s is for sure on guy had a air arms rifle that I don’t no the model but he did say the scope was a march scope that cost 4000 bucks and was like 1 1/2 foot long and had 100x magnification, he easily had 8 to 10,000 bucks in his equipment and was from the Atlanta airgun club. I met Lauren that used to post here on the PA blog a while back. it looks like it will be fun, but I have to tune my 60c to be below 20fpe or maybe use one of the 224 conversions for the matches. they let me shoot my hatsan but is way more than 20 fpe even with the 12 gr pellets they are at 32 fpe.

They already have confirmation from Puerto Rica and Venezuela for shooter coming to the nationals. Should be fun to watch.

I think you will find it hard to get a piece of foam around the air cylinder because it unthreads from the receiver and only has contact with the stock at the barrel support area, but let me know if you can work it in between the stock and air cylinder.

I have the pump that Mike sell with the 60C guns and I don’t who actually make it, but I only have that issue with the hatsan male foster adapter on the fill probe. All my other male foster on my 60C, 47 CI bottle and the 68 CI bottle seal just fine with the female on the pump that came with my 60C. The only differend cre

Gunfun
Hit enter by mistake. As I was saying above the only difference that I can see between the other male foster fittings and the one on the hatsan adapter is that the part where the seal would go up on the end to seal on the adapter is shorter than my other male fittings by .020 to .030″ and I don’t think it goes in to the o-ring until enough pressure force it out of the female foster groove and up against the male fitting. I am going to try a female BPSS to a female 1/8 NPT adapter so I can use one of my regular foster that would normally be threaded in the gun fill port on the 60C or Mrods and see if that seal with my hand pump.

Gunfun
I did not get a chance to ask what gun he had but it looked like either an Anschutz or a wierach. it resembled the ones that the CMP trained Olympic shooters use that are in the 4 and 5000 dollar range. I know because there is a Creedmore sports shop here in town and the air gun that they sell that are similar to what his looked like start at 3000 grand and go up to 5000. They are the ones that are all aluminum and have the fully adjustable stock, forearm and anything else you could want to adjust.
It was Lauren that used to post here awhile back that I got to talk with a lot and he told me about the scope, he said it was a march or something like that and cost the guy around 4000k and had up to 100x magnification. Lauren is a super nice guy and he is 73 years old and loaned me a bipod to use until I could get one of my own,

The hunter class is what I am interested in also because you get to sit on a five gallon bucket or one of those small fold out stools that you can get with pocket on the sides and use a bipod to steady the rifle. You are limited to 20 fpe so as not to destroy the targets, and I think I am going to make on of my hi-pac conversions to use in the hunter class with a 24 inch 177 caliber so I can still keep the fps up in the 800 to 850 fps and not exceed to 20 fpe range. It will also be light enough to carry from station to station.

The long range sniper event will consist of some target shooting at the sight in range and some timed shooting at the field range and all targets will be in the 80 to 100 yard ranges and that’s where I think the Aim sport scope with 40 x magnification will help.

Yes the fitting I got for my hatsan is that same fitting and I remember when I went to my buddies to first Sight it in that I filled it with my pump and did not have this issue. So it may be the o-ring getting worn, I will have to check it. But the small male end in front of the large ring that the quick connect balls lock onto to hold fittings together is shorter than all my other fittings, so I was going to get an adapter that has female BSPP threads on one end and female 1/8 NPT so I can screw it on to the hatsan fill probe and use one of my male threaded fosters to thread into the adapter so the end where the o-ring seals is slightly longer like all the rest of mine that work fine with my pump and fill tethers I use on my bottles.

I got my 68 CI tank filled to 4K which will give 4 fills on my hatsan so that is where I will fill it to, I just wanted to get it to 4500 because that would give me one more fill in the field. But I will eventually get another air cylinder so I can have two and just swap cylinders, That is why I would like to know how you are going to attach the foam to quiet the ping, It will have to be adhered to the stock and not the cylinder because you have to remove the cylinder to get the gun apart and if the foam is put on the cylinder then it will not pass thru the hole in the stocks barrel support band area. You are going to have to adhere it to the stock or just force it in between the stock and tube and remove it when you remove cylinder.

Let me know what you come up with as my ping is betting louder as I shoot it.

buldawg
You asked me above what brand pellet I like for a .177 cal. gun. I have used the Crosman premier heavy’s in the tin or box and the RWS Superdomes. Tryed the Gamo rockets and the JSB 10.34’s. All these pellets work good for me. I have tryed others but all of these have worked the best. But the one that I stock up on and the one that I shoot in all my .177 guns is the JSB 10.34’s They seem the best to me so far.

And it sounds like your on the right track for the fill fitting issue.

And on the anti-ping mod on the Hatsan I was hoping that I could just lift the action out of the stock and lay the piece of rubber in the stock and set the action back down in the stock. The barrel band should stay attached to the air tube when everything is lifted out of the stock. But maybe I’m wrong. I have taken the action out yet to know for sure. I will check it out and post back what I see.

Gunfun
That’s what I thought you would recommend for the heavy pellets as being the JSBs at least that’s what I hoped you would say. You mentioned CP heavy pellets, I did not know they made any other weight than the 7.9 gr pellets should I check on PA for them or just go with the JSBs.

As far as lifting the action out of the stock I did not think that it would come out without unscrewing the cylinder, but I just looked at mine closer and there is a screw at the front in the picatinney rail that appears to hold the barrel/air cylinder support band in place so it looks like that should work, when you try it let me know if it works and what thickness and density of foam you used.

Gunfun
Reb said in a post a couple of replies above yours that the 2250 is 14.6 inches and the 2260 is 24 inches.
I have changed my plans for the two 2249 I have ( Well are getting as I have not got the one from gunbroker yet but it has been shipped) I am going to make one from my 2289 parts with adjustable hammer spring, I saw on the crosman site that they offer one for the CO2 pistols that is nothing more than a stock rear plug that has been drilled and tapped for a threaded guide to adjust the spring with. I can do that myself as I already have the threaded guide so all I have to do is drill the end plug and tap it to fit my threaded guide.

The other on I am going to get a 177 steel breach and disco 24 inch barrel and make it up to be my gun to use in the hunter class at the air gun club events because it will be easier to tune to the 20 fpe range and much lighter to carry between stations.

Buldawg
The JSB 10.34’s have been the best for me anyway. They shoot a bit faster in all the guns that I have tryed them in compared to other heavy pellets I tryed. And they don’t seem to get blown around in the wind as much.

And I just did that anti-ping mod to my Hatsan. Was pretty easy. Take the screw loose that is in the picatinny rail in front of the sling attaching place. Then take the middle screw out on the bottom of the stock also. Then there is one more. Its the one behind the trigger in the trigger guard. You can leave the screw in the trigger guard that’s in front of the trigger also. It doesn’t have to be taken out. Then the action lifts out of the stock. The barrel band stays attached to the air reservoir and barrel.

Then I took a piece of vinyl chair material that is about 1/16 of a inch thick vinyl with around a 1/4 foam backing. I cut a piece 1 and 3/4” wide by 7 and a 1/2” long. Then layed it in the stock and then set the action in. Put the 3 screws back in and done. I tryed it and much better. It still has a very slight ping but nothing like it was.

Gunfun
That sound easy enough to do and I just have to hunt around and find some foam to put under the action of mine also.

I will check out the pellets you gave me links to and see how I like them.

I will be ordering one of the hi-pac kits this week because I just got paid for my water pump job so I have the funds for one hi-pac and two extensions. I will let you know how it turns out when I get the swap completed and shot some to get some chrony numbers.

Gunfun
I have another question about the crosman pellets. yesterday at the range when I was talking to Lauren and asked him what the difference between the pellets in the tins versus in the boxes. He said the ones in the tins come from several different molds whereas the one in the boxes all come from a single mold. Is there really that much difference between the two to warrant buying the ones in the box over the ones in the tins. Does it make that much difference in the accuracy of the pellets.

Gunfun
I can’t say from any experience myself as I have not bought any CPs in the box and have only shot the ones in the tins from wally world, if they had a bad run of pellets how do you know the ones in the tins versus the boxes were not part of the same bad run.

I have not had any issue with the wally world tin pellets not being accurate as I can put pellet on top of pellet fairly regularly so they seem to be good to me. But then my eyesight is not the best so when I do get flyers I cannot be positively certain it was not my mistake in aiming versus the pellet. I don’t use a steady rest of any kind to clamp the gun in so I can be certain that the guns don’t move when shot.

Vince
Sorry about mistaking you for Gunfun, I always forget to look at the bottom of my email to see who the post was from. My bad as my mind is not always in sync with my eyes at times and I get ahead of things.

I guess it comes from being a line technician in dealer ships where time is money so when you are paid flat rate. every minute count to make or lose money.

I have had very good luck with the Cs in the tins as well as the benjis also.

buldawg
Alot of the field target people use to swear by the Crosman box pellets.

They are made from one die which is supposed to keep the shape of the pellet consistent as well as the weight. Like the head and skirt diameter and such. When you get the box it will have the die number marked on the box.

From what I understand people would buy a big quantity of them at a time so they could get the most amount of consistent pellets. I bought Like 4 boxes of the .177 cal. heavy’s along with like 4 box’s of the .22 cal. to try one time. So if you think about if you don’t order any cheaper pellets you still get that 4th one free and that knocks 25 dollars of your order if you order that way. So that was like 50 bucks off plus take away the 10% discount coupon then it makes them worth it. And if I remember right you get 1250 in a box of .177’s and 625 in the .22 cal.

But yep I like them. But like I said I have had good luck with the ones in a tin also. But the JSB’s in .17u7 and .22 cal. are my favorites.

Gunfun
Yea I like the JSBs also because they don’t have the real narrow waist like most diabolo type pellets and I think that helps then fly a little more stable. I just can,t seem to bring myself to buy that many at a time to save big, I have used the buy four and get the fourth one free before just not with the CPs in the boxes. I always seem to be in wally world and go by the sporting goods dept and end up picking up a tin here and there so I have like 2000 of 22 and 1500 of 177 in either the CP hollow points or domed and the benji hollow points. I also got tins of H&Ns and JSBs in 22 when I bought my hatsan so I got a lot of pellets to shoot before buying more and I think with finding that field target range close by that I will be shooting them up pretty fast. You can go shoot at the field targets anytime for free and there are no dues to join the MCAFT club, just need to go and help clean and maintain the ranges.

Gunfun
I found why my foster fitting leaks and would not allow me to fill with my hand pump now, versus when it did when I was refilling the day I was sighting the scope in. Be very very careful when you insert the fill probe into the air cylinder port and make sure the rotating sleeve that you turn to cover the port when not filling the gun is exactly aligned with the port so when you insert the probe you do not cut the O-rings on the probe. I took a close look at my fill probe to figured out why I was having the issue of it leaking and not allowing me to fill with my pump because instead of me thinking it was the fill probe adapter foster not sealing to the o-ring in the QD fitting, I instead found a nick in one of the 0-rings on the probe and the other one had a 1/8 long sliver of the o-ring missing which was causing it to leak around the two O-rings on the probe and not the foster as I first thought. There is nothing wrong with the adapter, the O-rings on the probe are made of to soft and fragile of a rubber to be durable for any length of time.

I believe that is why they give you 4 extra O-rings with the gun because that will be a issue, I have seen on the GTA and Yellow where the first version’s of these guns did not have the rotating sleeve but instead had a plug that was put in the fill port to keep out dirt and dust. I will be looking for a better and more durable o-ring to replace the ones that are supplied with the gun. I have inserted the fill probe maybe 10 to 12 times since getting the gun and it has already damaged both O-rings. I am very careful when inserting the probe to prevent that exact issue from happening.

I believe I am going to do a little deburring/ chamfering on the fill port to make a smoother transition into the port for the O-rings to pass over when filling to help prevent the cutting and or damage to the o-rings so easily.

Check your fill probe for evidence of the o-rings being cut or slit, I wish they would just have used the conventional male thread in foster to fill with instead of the probe. I may look at modifying it to accept the thread ion foster instead of the probe.

buldawg
I can for sure see the o-ring getting clipped as you insert in the port.

And the anti-ping mod did help a bit. I have been out shooting but now it sound like a low (pong) kind of noise instead of the loud (ping) it was originally making. But it still is not as quiet as my Marauders but definitely better than it was.

Gunfun
You can always put the foam inside the air cylinder like you do on the Mrod. the valve of the hatsan is right at the end of the cylinder where it unthreads from the receiver. It has flats on it for a wrench to take it out and put the foam inside.

I have also read on the GTA forum of where One of the moderators of the forum ( rsterne) has tested the valve to get a higher and more consistent shot count by tapping and inserting set screws in three of the six port out of the valve and even blocked all but the one facing directly at the transfer port onto the barrel. I forget what his results were but you go the GTA and search hatsan valve modifications and it should come up.

Rsterne ( Bob ) I believe is an engineer or designer because he does very in depth test with a lot of math that is way over my head but has very informative and well thought out mods with great pics also.

Gunfun
Ok rubber then, is it like as 1/8 thick piece of rubber. How long does it need to be. I know you said it should be wide enough to fit smooth against the tube when unfolded inside but you never said how long.

buldawg
The 1/8” thick piece of rubber is what was done on the first Mrods to get rid of the ping. The piece was 2” wide. And what you have to do is once the fittings out and you have the tube there; is cut a piece bigger than the inside dia. And you have to test fit and get it cut to the right length. I think it was right around 3” long.

But the tube dia. is different on the Hatsan. So if you do the Hatsan with the 1/8” rubber on the inside of the air reservoir tube you will just have to test fit by slipping it in the tube. But make it about 2” wide.

But if you do the Hatsan like I just did on the outside of the air reservoir tube and layed in the stock. Then you can use the vinyl with the 1/4” foam backing. That piece was 1 and 3/4” wide by 7” long. And I layed the vinyl side down in the stock with the foam side towards the air reservoir tube. Thyen just set the action back in the stock and tighten the screws and your done.

And I did shoot it all day yesterday and the ping got quieter as the day went. Its almost non-existent now. I guess the foam needed to conform to the tube or something. But its pretty good now. And the gun was more accurate. I dont know if it was because of the foam or the guns getting broke in.

Gunfun
I will probably put the foam on the outside like you did as I am not really wanting to tear into the hatsan just yet, it just shoots to good to mess with .
I just have to find a piece of foam to put under the tube.

How many shoots are you getting per fill . I would also be interested in the chrony numbers when you get a chance to test it for fps.

Gunfun
I just had a change in my plan for the 2240 conversation that I am going to do in 177 cal. I remembered that I have a 20 inch 177 lothar walther barrel that came from a 853 I fixed for a friends friend that had a broken valve to barrel pot metal assy and I kept the barrel. I believe I will go to my buddies machine shop and modify the barrel to fit in the crosman steel breech so it would be 20 inches long and should be very accurate/

All I have to do is cut off the necked down portion where it fit in the daisy receiver assy and machine the chamfer in the end for the pellet and o-ring of the probe to fit in the end and then machine the transfer port hole and it will fit perfectly because the barrel is 7/16 in OD just like a crosman.

I starting to get my plan together as I have my original 2289 barrel that I can measure from to make the chamfer for the pellet and probe and where to put the transfer port.

Gunfun
I just remembered I had that barrel last night and I am glad I did because I would have ordered one from crosman when I did not need to, I have a barrel band for a ssp250 coming from ebay to be able to put the little forearm on the front under the tube so you don.t have to hold the gun by the air tube. The forearm is still available from crosman for 5.02 + 4.00 shipping, so I will order two of those when I order the steel breech in 177. the barrel band and adapter to hold the forearm on the gun are obsolete so I will make the rear adapter that bolts on at the front trigger housing mount screw and runs forward of that screw to fasten the rear of the forearm. I just need to get another front barrel band .

Gunfun
that is not to bad, but I will most likely go to 3000 psi with mine as I plan to use it in the hunter class and would like to be as close to 20fpe as possible as long as the accuracy is not affected, if it is than I will adjust fill pressure to get the most fpe along with best accuracy.

Got to get some stuff ordered and on its way to me to get the projects done.

LW 20″? Awesome! It’ll take some work, it’s a good thing you have the equipment available to do it precisely! That should make for a nice, tight and accurate package.Hey, I learned a new trick about cleaning those fixed barrels. I fished some old school braided line down the muzzle(the weight of the line lets gravity do this, especially when oil soaked),tie around a Q-tip and soak with solvent( WD-40 here), insert Q-tip into breech and pull out, careful to avoid grooving the crown. I also tried this from the breech end but it’s much more difficult to pull it straight.

Reb
Yea I was looking thru my old parts box last night and came across the Daisy 853 barrel that I got from one that I rebuilt that had a broken valve/ barrel assy. The only way to get it from Daisy was as an assy which included the barrel and valve assy. I got to keep the old barrel and there is nothing wrong with it so it will be donated to the 2240 hi-pac build.

Have you got your 36 shooting good and gotten some chrony numbers yet. Yea that is a good trick to clean barrels with, I know when I would have to wire motorcycles and have to run the wires for the switches down thru the handlebars I would tie a nut to the end of a string and use compressed air to blow the nut and string thru the handlebars to the exit at the middle of the bars and then just tie the string to the wires and pull them down thru the bars. It is pretty much the same thing only I used air to push the string thru instead of gravity because it had to go around turns in the bars instead of a straight barrel.

Wulfraed
I see what you are talking about now and the first stage after my adjusting was right back at the same place it was originally, so in essence all I really did was turn the second stage in about a 1/16 of a turn. Which made the trigger more sensitive to movement. Mine had the same feel as your gamo where the supposed first stage was nothing more than taking up spring tension until the trigger contacted the sear and then a little more pressure and it would fire.

The directions that come with the trigger state that there should be no free play in the trigger when adjusted correctly. But I see what you are stating also in that to have two stages there has to be some movement of the trigger that neither the first or second stage screws are in contact with the sear at all. The way the instructions that are emailed to you when Gene receives your money state to adjust do not state as to whether the gun needs to be cocked or not, but the way they say to adjust it is so that both screw are in contact with the sear at all times and all you are really doing by that type of adjusting is moving where in the pivoting of the trigger on the pin it will release the sear.

So if you adjust by their instructions you don’t have any stages, just a change in where the trigger is at in its arc on the pin when it release the sear. I am going to go back and adjust per your directions and see if it is better, it will at least give me that hummingbird first stage and the owl second as you put it which is what I am wanting anyway.

You don’t /need/ true free-play (when neither screw is in contact)… In fact, that is how you would shorten the first stage length — you essentially turn in the first stage screw so that the sear lever is already partly “pressed” when cocked.

But you do need an architecture where the first part of the trigger pull has the 2nd stage screw not in contact, and where the pivot angles will let it rise high enough to then move the sear lever off the first stage screw.

If you have the 2nd stage screw contacting the sear from the beginning, all you have is a 2nd stage pull and no first stage. Conversely, if the 2nd stage never touches the sear before firing, all of the pull is on the first stage.

Wulfraed
I see what you are saying and I will have to take the action out of the stock to be able to adjust the trigger properly, or I may just drill a hole thru the trigger guard so it can be adjusted with the action in the stock.

How do you get the adjustment right on a spring gun when it is not good to dry fire it, do you cock it and put pellet in barrel and adjust where the gun can fire in a safe direction until you get it set to your liking or is there an easier way to do the adjusting and trial and error of it.

That’s why my Gamo hasn’t been adjusted yet — no real safe place to do the adjustment. My m54 ended up with enough dry-fires to worry me; I took to stuffing two felt cleaning wads into the barrel just to give some back pressure (and digging those out of the carpet was a pain)

Wulfraed
Yea I know there has to be a easier way, I may try to call gene at GRT to get his take on adjusting it.
If you could see the screw contact on the sear to get the angles right it would pretty easy but not being able to actually see where the brake over point is makes it difficult without loading, adjust and fire repeatedly until it feels right and that can only be done with the action in the stock so you can hold it how you would when shooting. it seems to be to much trial and error for me without some better insight to what is correct.

It is ok right now for me but just to touchy for my grand kids to shoot without me being right on top of them making sure they are pointing it down range.