Tuesday, January 12, 2016

David DJ Creato Arrested

Creato has been arrested. See his 911 call here, as he establishes his priority being:alibi. When we speak, we reveal our priorities, background, experience and even personality. Even in a short call, we know the truth.

CAMDEN — David "D.J." Creato, the father of a 3-year-old Haddon Township boy found dead late last year, was arraigned at the Camden County Hall of Justice on Tuesday on charges of first-degree murder and second-degree endangering the welfare of a child.

Creato, wearing a dark blue jail uniform, sat quietly as prosecutor Christine Shah laid out what she admitted was a largely circumstantial case, hinging on the 22-year-old's love affair with a 17-year-old from New York.

Shah claims Creato's girlfriend, previously identified as Julia Spensky, was at his Haddon Township apartment the weekend before Brendan Creato went missing.

Spensky allegedly told Creato she disliked kids and threatened to break up with him since the weekends in which he had custody of Brendan interfered with the couple's time together.

In a blog post that has since been removed, Spensky wrote in the fall that she was "possibly a suspect in a homicide investigation."

84 comments:

An Oregon folk singer plans to leave next week to serenade the Islamic State, and he intends to bring the black-clad barbarians a prayerful message of peace -- despite a warning from the State Department that his life could be in danger.

James Twyman, of Portland, Ore., told FoxNews.com he feels a "calling" and believes he can soften the hearts of the Islamist army known for beheading Westerners, throwing gays off of buildings and summarily executing innocent women and children.

“It’s going to be pretty powerful,” Twyman said, referring to his plan to have those attending and others around the world sing and pray for peace at the same time. “When people cometogether and focus on something in a positive way…there’s scientific evidence that it can change things for the better.”

The author and self-styled “Peace Troubadour” has put traditional prayers from various faiths to song. Twyman performed in Baghdad in the late 1990s after Operation Desert Storm; in Bosnia and Croatia during the Balkan War in 1995 and has even performed previously in Syria to spread his message of peace through song.

Twyman leaves Jan. 20, and plans to stop in Italy before heading to Israel. From there, he will then cross over the northern border shared with Syria to a small Druze village.

While that village, Majdal Shams, is occupied by Israel, Twyman said he has contacts there trying to set up a venue in ISIS-controlled territory. Either way, the show is set for Jan. 31.

Twyman said he will be joined by a large group of Jewish, Muslim and Christian leaders.

“Each one will lead the group in prayer from their religion,” he said. “It’s going to be pretty powerful.”

The U.S. State Department placed heavy restrictions on travel to Syria ever since ISIS started occupying large regions throughout the Middle Eastern country.

“No part of Syria should be considered safe from violence,” reads the travel warning on the State Department website. “The potential for hostile acts exists throughout the country, including kidnappings and the use of chemical warfare against civilian populations.

“There is a terrorist threat from violent extremist groups including the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, (ISIL), formerly known as Al Qaeda in Iraq (AQ), the al-Nusrah Front, and others,” reads another part of the warning. “U.S. citizens have been specifically targeted for kidnapping, both for ransom and political purposes, and murdered by members of terrorist and violent extremist groups in Syria. U.S. citizens have disappeared within Syria.

"Due to the security situation in Syria, the U.S. government’s ability to help U.S. citizens kidnapped or taken hostage is very limited,” the warning continues.

Twyman says that officials from the State Department reached out to him and urged him to cancel.

“They have advised me not to go,” he said.

Officials for the State Department declined to comment on the matter when contacted by FoxNews.com.

Seriously?Why do i suspect that when push comes to shove and he manages to get to his venue in daesh controlled territory, he won't have leaders from other faiths there with him?

Music is banned, that will get him killed.He is a westerner,particularly a hated american, that will get him taken hostage and no doubt slaughtered in some interesting way. Death by being forcefed his own guitar perhaps?Jews are going to go along for a jolly old singson of some prayer, yep that will mean a particularly brutal death for simply being jewish from Israel.

Does he really think that muslims who belive everyone non muslim should be killed are going to in effect sit around the campfire singing kumbaya and eating toasted marshmallows?

Any bets on him cancelling due to the danger (though he has gotten free publicity?Any bets of manner of death?Any bets that he pleads for rescue after being captured , probably for crimes against music?

Thank goodness the police were looking hard at DJ and finally, after all these months, there should be justice for that poor little boy. It fortifies my belief that, even though we don't know what's happening with Davey Blackburn right now, the police could also be pursuing a case against him. I'm waiting for that perp walk!

Rochdale MP Simon Danczuk has been questioned voluntarily by police over a rape claim dating back to 2006.

The 49-year-old attended a police station in Lancashire of his own accord.

A spokesman for the force said: "The man attended by prior appointment and was not arrested. He was interviewed under caution.

"A complaint was made to Lancashire Constabulary on 4 January 2016 by a woman aged 39 of a historic rape dating back to 2006. Inquiries are ongoing."

Mr Danczuk rejected the accusation when it emerged last week and said he was confident his name would be cleared.

He said at the time: "These claims are malicious, untrue and extremely upsetting.

"The police have not been in touch with me but I will co-operate fully with any inquiries and am confident my name will be promptly cleared."

In a separate matter, Mr Danczuk is currently suspended from the Labour Party after it was disclosed he had exchanged lewd messages with 17-year-old Sophena Houlihan, who later transpired to be a dominatrix.

Mr Danczuk, who has been a key campaigner in unearthing the Rochdale child sex abuse scandal, has apologised "unreservedly" for his conduct in exchanging messages with Miss Houlihan.

"The police have not been in touch with me but I will co-operate fully with any inquiries and am confident my name will be promptly cleared."

Note the qualifier in relation to his cooperation.

Spot the dropped pronoun in relation to his name being cleared.

Note also the qualifier in relation to being cleared.

Note he doesn't tell us he didn't rape the woman, only that the claims are malicious, untrue and extremely upsetting.

Note also the qualifier in relation to upsetting.

"The police have not been in touch with me"

The word "but" should always be observed carefully, particularly observing the words that follow the word "but" in comparison to what preceded it. It can refute what preceded it, or can be used to compare, or even negate what preceded it.He voluntarily made an appointment to attend the station.He was probably advised to do so by his attorney as it would make him look as if he had nothing to hide, rather than having LE issuing a demand or a warrant to haul him in for questioning.He preempted what was probably going to happen.

It also meant he could put a positive spin on things.He also helpfully told us what his defense will likely be, alcohol and possibly sex addiction.

The prosecutor alleges DJ murdered his son to keep his girlfriend. Not a well thought out plan, but an obsessed/crazed/middle of the night thought. Most likely what happened. However, his lawyer seems intent on representing him though his funds are lacking.

It is hard to believe someone would do such a thing when a grandparent is just up the street and the real mother is alive. He is young, but severely messed up.

My question is completely off topic, sorry, but I heard a guy on tv refer to the tree he was felling as female and it got my attention. He said, "there she goes," when it fell to the ground.Why did he refer to an inanimate object as female? Thanks in advance for any feedback, thank you!

Anon - I'd say he probably loves trees; countries, ships and the Church (whichever) are also referred to as 'she', denoting a fondness, or respect, by this who use it, though it's not heard so often these days.

Finally. I feel vindicated (to myself, for suspecting the dad immediately) on this one. I'm the one who brought this case to Peter's attention...when I read that 911 transcript, I knew the dad knew what had happened. That's why I asked Peter to take a look...because I was curious to see if my feelings were justified. And then NOTHING for a couple months.

I suspect the boy was suffocated. That's why the autopsy didn't find anything. This is horrid. Seriously just awful. How could you...? To any child, much less your own?

Anon at 11.54 - 'she' of Moby Dick - well, who said it? I don't remember as I am not an appreciator of the book - I don't think I ever finished reading it. Ahab had no affection for the whale, he wanted revenge, so if it was him who said it, that would have been as an acknowledgement of her grandeur, perhaps - as whales are awesome, regardless?

A police K-9 found his body hours later... In a wooded area in Haddon Township.

Just yesterday, prosecutors announced they charged his father with his murder. But up until now... Authorities have shared very little information about what may have happened.

This evening, we know a whole lot more about the cause of death for little Brendan, that based on three separate autopsies. And perhaps more shocking, we now have a sense of the motive for the killing.

“Why would someone kill their own child? There must be a reason for someone to do something like that.

Shaw laid out a circumstantial but detailed case that Creato had smothered, drowned or strangled his three-year-old son, and placed his body in a wooded area near Cooper River, a favorite spot for the father to visit.

She did not want to share him with his 3-year-old from a previous relationship; he worried she would leave him.

The roiling emotions proved deadly for little Brendan Link Creato, a Camden County prosecutor told a judge Tuesday, seeking high bail for the boy's father, who had reported him missing and now is charged with his murder.

Weeks before Brendan's pajama-clad body was found in Haddon Township woods, David "D.J." Creato Jr. was distraught and arguing with his 17-year-old girlfriend to keep her from leaving him, Assistant Prosecutor Christine Shah said.

The girlfriend, a juvenile whom Shah did not name but who has been identified as Julia Spensky, had warned Creato she disliked children and resented his devotion to the boy. Shah said authorities learned of the fraught relationship mostly from the couple's numerous text messages and online posting

"She issued an ultimatum to him," Shah said Tuesday after Creato, charged with the Oct. 13 murder of his son, was brought into a Camden courtroom for his first appearance.

Shah said medical examiners determined the boy died of "homicidal violence." Superior Court Judge Edward McBride set bail at $750,000 - lower than the $1 million sought by Shah, but higher than the $250,000 a defense attorney said might be appropriate.

Creato, 22, did not confess to police, but Shah said he told investigators that he was feeling "jealous and anxious" in the hours before he noticed his son had disappeared from his apartment, and that he had been worried that the woman he loved had found someone else.

Creato called 911 at 6:07 a.m. Oct. 13 and told the dispatcher that his child must have unlocked the door and wandered off, Shah said.

"I just woke up, and my 3-year-old's missing," Creato said, according to a recording of the call. "I just woke up and he wasn't in my apartment. I don't know if he wandered out or what happened. I don't know where he is. The door was locked. I guess he unlocked it and left."

Shah said his voice during the call had a "flat affect and tone."

Brendan had been "very afraid of the dark," Shah said, to the point that he had been reluctant to go to the bathroom at night, according to interviews with grandparents and other relatives who had babysat him.

The stretch - about three-quarters of a mile - between Creato's apartment and the muddy spot by the Cooper River where Brendan's body was found is extremely dark at night, very steep at one point, and difficult to negotiate, she said.

Besides, Shah said, Creato was sleeping less than nine feet from the door and would have awakened if Brendan had unlocked it or if an intruder had entered.

It is "a circumstantial case" in which the "circumstances are quite compelling," Shah said, laying out a chilling narrative.

Much of D.J. Creato's life was online, she said. Investigators examined 9,487 text messages he exchanged with his girlfriend after meeting her in June on Tinder, a dating website, and during an "intense romantic relationship" that continued into October. Shah said the teen had written a series of "unbelievable" blogs in which she described her "strong dislike of children."

Creato, shackled and wearing blue jail garb, said nothing during the hearing and mostly looked down.

His attorney, Richard Fuschino Jr., said the prosecutor's version of what happened was improbable, and that his client had cooperated fully and truthfully with investigators.

"He spent an entire day answering the questions of investigators," Fuschino said.

Shah, in saying Brendan died of "homicidal violence," said an examination of his brain showed an abnormality consistent with oxygen deprivation that can be caused by asphyxiation, drowning, or manual strangulation.

The prosecutor said there was unhealed bruising to the right clavicle, near the neck, which indicated that the toddler was injured prior to his death. There was no evidence that an accidental injury or disease caused the child's death, she said.

Shah did not say where the murder took place, but disputed Creato's suggestion that Brendan had gone missing. "Never once had he left the apartment or his mother's house or his grandparents' by himself," she said.

Shah said that on the night Brendan was killed, Creato had called his girlfriend eight times, and that he noticed from her Snapchat online account that she had met up with a "guy he was jealous of." Then, at 1:37 a.m., he checked his phone again, though he told investigators he had gone to bed at 10 p.m., Shah said.

Shah said problems developed between Creato and his girlfriend after she began attending college in New York and could only visit him on weekends. The teen, who previously lived in Pennsylvania, told Creato that he would have to give up taking custody of Brendan every other weekend to be with her, Shah said.

McBride, the judge, said that if Creato posts bail, he will not be allowed to leave the state or make any contact with Brendan's mother, Samantha Denoto, or her family.

Denoto sat stoically in the front row of the packed, hushed courtroom and declined to comment afterward. She and Creato, who were not married, had shared custody of Brendan. She has made no public comment since the boy's death, when her family issued a statement saying it was "heartbroken" and wanted privacy.

The only sign of emotion Denoto showed was when Shah told the judge that Creato and Spensky still were communicating. Denoto shook her head vigorously, as if she did not believe that was possible.

Shah said the teen was away at college when the child was killed.

In an interview in November, Fuschino identified Creato's girlfriend as Spensky and said she had been at Creato's apartment the weekend before Brendan's death.

In a Tumblr post after Brendan's body was discovered by a K-9 unit, Spensky wrote that she was "possibly a suspect in a homicide investigation."

The post, subsequently removed, also said: "I was advised by my attorney not to speak to anyone about my case. . . . My boyfriend is in worse trouble than I am and can't leave the state he's in."

Spensky's attorney, Joseph Sorrentino of New York, said Tuesday that he had no comment.

Shah said that while they dated, Creato and his girlfriend had visited the spot where Brendan's body was found about 30 times. The pair had taken pictures there and posted them online.

Creato told investigators that it was a "favorite place . . . and he referred to it as spiritual to him," Shah said.

Brendan "was placed there," Shah said, noting that the socks he was wearing when his body was found had no dirt on them.

If convicted of murder, Creato would face a minimum of 30 years in prison without parole and a maximum term of life imprisonment with at least 67 years without parole, the judge said.

Dan Keashen, a spokesman for the county jail, said Creato was being held "in the special management unit under close observation."

In requesting bail of $1 million, Shah said Creato had "violated a most sacred trust, a trust between a parent and a child."

The judge said that bail in New Jersey is based on the risk that a suspect will flee, and he said Creato had no criminal record and had not attempted to disappear during months of investigation. "The defendant has been involved in the investigation since the outset. He has always been available," McBride said.

The judge said $750,000 was proper because of the seriousness of the crime.

Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/news/new_jersey/20160113_Judge_sets__750_000_bail_for_Creato.html#tIig77o8tgGEEexH.99

John,This boy's death is more difficult to accept (for me, that is) when a male does what the Smith woman did and CA did.The girlfreind's future is in limbo and it sounds as if she has no family to turn to. She's trying to make a path for herself by going to college. Then meets this loon who is jealous of her every move. If she didn't like children, why did she not pick a boyfriend with no children. At seventeen, I would think it would be easy to find someone that qualifies.

"the prosecutor's version of what happened was improbable, and that his client had cooperated fully and truthfully with investigators."

"cooperated fully"

"Fully" making cooperation sensitive. Add in the other qualifier (and a need to persuade) "Truthfully" this is a very weak statement and lacks belief that he was "cooperated fully and truthfully with investigators," and that it is "improbably".

The autopsy found a lack of oxygen before death and they excluded drowning and manual strangulation. They said also asphyxia but I'm pretty sure they specifically mean compression of airway.!suffocation with a pillow would just lead to lack of oxygen.

Hypothermia would have certainly showed on the autopsy...and the way they knew he hadn't gone there himself was clean socks. It was like 50 degrees that morning...it would've taken hours of not a day to die that way in that temp. The kid would've woken up and his socks wouldn't have been clean. I just speculate suffocation because it's the only thing left that fits...

Improbable is not impossible, either. I'm an attorney and I can tell you that we choose our words VERY carefully. VERY.

So say this goes to trial, right? Beyond a reasonable doubt standard and all that. IMPROBABLE (as well as "impossible") gets your client off. Why? Because although there may be evidence...improbable leaves that doubt. "

The situation described is just too bizarre to convict, ladies and gentlemen of the jury."

Using the word improbable means the lawyer can imply his client didn't do it without outright lying. The lawyer can honestly say the situation is bizarre and hardly ever happens. That's a true statement it IS improbable. But at this point, it's the only obvious answer short of aliens.

The kid didnt unlock the door and "leave." That's beyond clear. And the fact that he says he thinks that's what happened in the 911 call means he's trying to persuade, IMO.

If my kid was gone and the door was unlocked, I'd also worry about intruders. He said nothing. Why? Because it turns out the kid slept IN THE SAME ROOM 9 FEET AWAY. No intruder is going to creep in and risk that. And then even if he did, he's going to assault the kid (sorry, but statistically it's true).

No. This guy either did it or his girlfriend did it (I hope her alibi at college is solid...assume it is). It may have been an accident. But one article I read said the autopsy found lack of oxygen to the brain before death. What besides homicide causes that in a child without evidence of a seizure or something else?

The guy did it.

Also...Peter... The ENTIRE 911 call was released. Youve seen most of the statements in it already but do you want to hear he whole thing? I'll go find it again if so.

In the 911 call, you can hear a woman's voice in the background, calling "Brendan!" over and over, and the Dad is even talking to said woman a few times in the call, so do they have proof the girlfriend was really out of town?If the kid has his mom in the picture and involved grandparents, and he wanted him out of his life, why not give up custody?Such a heartbreaking story.

What confuses me now is why did he refer to Brendan's mother as his wife given that they were not married and shared custody? The close language he used really does not line up with the reality of their relationship with what I know now.

No tin foil hat dismissals from me, bingbangbong. I watched all three videos. Can't transcribe them at the moment but the statements are absolutely interesting. The almost word-for-word consistency of the "neighbor" was striking. I also noticed he explicitly mentioned body posture (children sitting, "a man" standing). The "harshly speaking man" was a very odd inclusion in the story - oh, and I caught that he referred to the events as a "story" multiple times. Robbie Parker's statements were very casual for the setting. "I would like to express condolences to the families directly affected by this" is unexpected, given he was one of those families. He also said his daughter would "be standing and supporting" those affected, another inclusion of body posture. The coroner had probably the most interesting statement, particularly because of the amount of time/detail given to different aspects of the interview. If it was transcribed, I think the 25/50/25 ratio would be wayyyyy off. These are just my initial impressions, and while I tried to be as accurate as possible when "quoting" a statement, this is not a product of a transcript so small errors may exist.

Btw - the OT in posts is because many of us are fascinated by SA and don't have another outlet beyond this blog to discuss our own questions and theories. I see how it's annoying and agree it should be minimal, but maybe Peter can set up a post for us to present our own topics, and he could decide if he's interested in expanding upon certain ones in their own thread. Just a thought.

Thanks Shannon...i couldn't remember the autopsy results, I thought they said "undetermined" the first time. If thy hyoid bone wasn't broken in the neck, then yes, I would say compression suffocation...pillow, he could have actually lain on his body, covered his nose and mouth, I think he may have done that until he passed out or was close to death and then left the child out in elements. They wouldn't even mention drowning unless there was water in his lungs which means he was breathing. That poor child..bless his heart.

Excellent post by Penny. I too am persuaded that at the very least the statements of these accused Crisis Actors should be put to the test by the experts here. It should always be a search for truth so let the chips fall where they may.

imagrandma...very interesting comments on the Klein Investigations FB from them...major pointsthat they shared

1. They have the results of everyones poly and are NOT releasing them, that's up to LE2. Reinwald has lawyered up and refused to be interviewed, not cooperating3. They have "evidence" that Deorr was "on the mountain". They specifically did not answer if he was dead or alive when he was there.4. Verified 2 vehicles went to campground5. Verified that parents were away from "area" approx 17 min.6. Verified there was NO black SUV that has anything to do with case...rumor7. Verified drugs were NOT a factor 8. Verified that they did stop and get diesel fuel.9. Would not say what time store receipts were stamped.10. They and FBI are "on the same page"

The explosive comments I think were these...

1. The cremains HAVE NOTHING TO DO with the disappearance but they DID throw off the scent dogs. The specifically did NOT include the cadavor dogs..they actually corrected someone and said no, the cremains ONLY threw off the scent dogs.

2. They would not verify that Deorr was alive when he was in the area.

3. There were 3/three 911 calls, not 2. They are in possession of all three and they give the times as being a few minutes apart. they will not say who beyond Jessica called 911. They will not release 911, that they are leaving up to LE

******A NEW WITNESS, YES WITNESS, HAS COME FORWARD THIS PAST WEEKEND THAT HAS BEEN AFRAID TO COME FORTH UNTIL NOW***** they are vetting this witness and that is why they have postponed their "announcement" until this Friday.

Regarding OT (off topic) post- a post made by a blogger is ok with Peter. It's kinda like the saying 'two pairs of eyes are better than one'. As most OT post are headed with "OT" or the words "off topic" you should find it easy to spot such posts and either move on to the next post or read the OT post. I hope this helps :)

The most recent articles had more info. At first they just said undetermined. Now they are saying oxygen deprivation caused by homicide but it's not known WHAT caused it. They specifically EXCLUDED drowning and strangulation. So that's the only time they mentioned drowning...that it definitely wasn't that. And I assume hyoid bone was fine as otherwise it would've been clear strangulation.

I still don't think it was cold enough for hypothermia but it's possible. You don't know with a young child. But I agree...some form of suffocation and that either finished him off or allowed him to be placed somewhere.

Seems to me that DeOrr was dead when they went to the mountain. That's why no scent of him at campsite. DeOrr was "on the mountain" but they don't say WHERE or whether he was alive, as you said, Lynda. Makes me wonder about the parents, honestly. But then why the PI? That makes me wonder about Reinwald and grandpa.

Interested in the report on Friday... Sounds like it's going to have lots of info.

OTThank you NEWB (heh, is that acronym deliberate?). We look at both reliable and deceptive statements here to practice SA. The matter of Sandy Hook is sensitive to many people so I understand not everyone would want to look into it personally, but it was an interesting proposition due to the controversies that emerged after the event. Perfect candidate for statement analysis.

I forgot to mention a certain exchange in my post above. A reporter asked the coroner about the age of the victims.

CME: All of the ones I know, they were all first - everybody I dealt with, I believe they were all first graders.

Shannon...I have brain fog lately. I thought they said drowning. I think the cowardly SOB probably suffocated him..i wonder if petechiae were present? Partially submerged in water that is approx 50 degrees can result in hypothermic death in as little as one hour. I hope they ironclad that 17 year old twits alibi. The father is still communicating with her, and she him? Twisted couple.

I know, very interested in what Klein Invest. has to say on Friday. With their careful choosing of words it appears they are implying that Deorr may have been dead already when he was "on the mountain" They also stated without slamming anyone badly that it would have been much more helpful if the scene had been treated as a crime scene instead of a search scene. Interesting...

There were two more questions being the date and time stamp at the Stage Stop - we will not release that as it is evidence in the time line. The second question was the first reponders there which the answer is one and one half hours after the first call came in. All in approx.

There were three 911 calls which are public - 14:22, 14:26 and 14:28 hours on the 10thHeidi Bishop When you say that a witness has come forward, can you clarify "witness" for us? Is it someone that actually saw something? Thank youLike • Reply • 13 • January 11 at 3:02pm

Klein Investigations and Consulting A person with direct knowledge. Not heresay.

Becky Velasco Does the information you received this weekend affirm the direction you were going with the investigation or change it?Like • Reply • 18 • January 11 at 3:02pm

Klein Investigations and Consulting Neither. It is information gathered by a witness that was scared to come forward because of all of the publicity on the case. We are vetting the information and it will take us a few days to do it - then compare it to what we have. Good question

Trinity Haselwander Does any of your team members specialize in analysing behavior? Or speech analysis?Like • Reply • 4 • January 11 at 3:32pm

Klein Investigations and Consulting We do have a person on the team that does specialize as a behavior analysis investigator and as well we have one that is an interview specialist

Robin Halsted Fitzgerald Given the lack of evidence that has been publicized proving Deorr jr. was at the campground, how do you know he was there? Has concrete evidence been obtained that places him at the campsite or is it all based on the word of the four individuals camping?Like • Reply • 14 • January 11 at 3:02pm

Klein Investigations and Consulting There is a reason why LE and our team is not giving the public any evidence at this time. Good question.

Prosecutors say they have compelling circumstantial evidence against David "D.J." Creato Jr., the Haddon Township father charged with killing his 3-year-old son, Brendan. But some outside legal experts say that should the case go to trial, the lack of direct evidence could pose a challenge.

Yes, only Jessica's call was released. Anon, if I'm not mistaken, Peter analyzed the 911 call.

John..what is interesting is the fact that there were 3 calls made. So far, public knew that Mom and Dad called...but who is the third caller? Were 2 calls made by dad or was there perhaps the "witness" call? I'm excited about this witness as Klein Invest. states that the info is NOT heresay. KI states they are going to release tomorrow which way the investigation is going which is one of 3 ways...animal, abduction, homicide. They also stated they are at this point 90% sure of there evidence pointing one way and FBI is on same page as they are. Notice that none of their 3 ways includes "wandering away"

How could there be a witness if it was an animal attack? What kind of animal in that area could get away cleanly with a 2 year old child? Unless someone can explain that one to me logically, I'm eliminating that from the list of possibilities.

Good point on the water. The water was certainly colder than 50. Very possibly could've done it at that point. I didn't see that about partial submersion until the recent articles and didn't even think about that. I agree then...either suffocation or that plus hypothermia.

Does petechiae show up with just suffocation? Haven't seen an article mention that yet.

I think deorr was dead and someone carried him out of the truck. That wouldn't leave a cadaver scent at the campsite, right? But you'd think in the car. So hmmmm. Unless it was within an hour of death by this didn't sound like a spontaneous trip. This case is so perplexing.

I know all this...I was just asking if petechiae can show up without manual compression of the airway. I assumed it was a sign of actual strangulation as opposed to carbon monoxide or suffocation like pillow over face.

But now that you mention it... Carbon monoxide would've been possible...but I assume that would show up in the toxicology tests. I'm still leaning towards a pillow over the face and/hypothermia now that Lynda mentioned the water.

But the list is good for people wondering what could've caused the death. Sadly, I read enough true crime to have a pretty good handle on signs of different causes of death...

The times given for the 911 calls cannot be correct. JM's call is timestamped at 14.28 and 4 seconds. It is DURING this call that VD Kunz can be heard calling 911. Ergo, VD Kunz's 911 call was made AFTER 14.28.

Shannon... petechiae usually show up with ANY lack of oxygen, compression, strangulation, smothering, but they rarely appear if the lack of oxygen is environmental, which I think we can rule out. Like I said, I have a feeling the coward smothered him just enough to have him pass out, perhaps he kept doing it so his bouts of unconsciousness were longer and longer (I'm thinking petechiae may NOT appear then, and then submerged him. OR LE released the "undertermined" as a red herring? Shannon...did i read somewhere that there were 3 autopsies performed? Carbon Monoxide is a horrible way to go. There is usually a cherry red appearance to lips, skin that would signify that right away...not always tho.

Anon @ 5:34 That is what is so intriguing. Everyone has ASSUMED that dad was calling because you heard him talking (Which is weird right there...I thought he was 1/2 mile up the road? How could he be heard on Jessicas call?) obviously, he was NOT. He was near enough to Jessica and talking to HER while she was talking to LE. You can hear her stopping and starting as she is trying to talk and listen at the same time. Maybe that's why we never heard dads 911...he NEVER called. He just went up the road TO call. Klein was careful to NOT say who it was that called 911. They just released the times and that is new info to public..that there were 3 calls made. Third call the witness maybe? And they just came forward now? Hmmmm

"As for the cause of death, investigator say it is still undetermined, but Brendan's brain showed a lack of oxygen before his death, indicating causes such as drowning, smothering or asphyxiation. He also had a fresh bruise near his collarbone"

This is reported as of 2 days ago. Intriguing. Brain changes occur in stages when lack of oxygen occurs. If they are including drowning, there must have been water in the lungs? I wonder if being submerged actually STOPPED brain death (mammalian effect) and kept the poor baby technically "alive" longer by inducing hypothermia and that's how they picked up the brain changes? If I was on the jury..I don't think I'd have a problem with it being a circumstantial case.

I read that article. Another goes farther and says they've excluded most of those (so basically they ruled IN lack of oxygen first and then continued on to rule OUT specific lack of oxygen causes...ill see if o can find the other article).

Okay nm...,I know I rad he didn't drown but I guess that did get revised. He was either smothered or drowned accessing to prosecutors. http://patch.com/new-jersey/haddon/breaking-nj-toddler-was-smothered-or-drowned-prosecutors-say

OT Deorr Kunz- something is off with the calls. Jessica's call was logged in at 14:28. Deorr sr (Vernal) is heard talking to the operator while Jessica is on. It could be that the call times were released incorrectly originally. Possibilities are that Jessica's is the 14:22 and Deorr sr's is one of the following, or both of the following as he had trouble connecting. Or that Jessica's mother made one call. We do know Jessica called her, or texted her.I'm still looking at the friend and ggp.

Amanda Blackburn- I'm not sure what murder charges against Diano Gordon means. He is for certain the confidential informant. Either 1. They found dna in the Blackburn home which proved he was in there, 2. He stopped talking. But to have Gordon charged with murder seems to bring it closer to Alonzo Bull. He was the one talking on the phone to Bull throughout the entire burglary spree.

Shannon Duane said...Geez...my fingers aren't working yet, clearly. ACCORDING (not accessing) to prosecutors, he was either smothered or drowned.

January 15, 2016 at 9:20 AM

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What's going on with the coroner there? There's either water in his lungs or not. Water under a certain amount would suggest smothering, but water over a certain amount would mean he inhaled it into his lungs. The bruise on his clavicle was made while he was still breathing but could be from dad lying on top of him or pressing his elbow into him as he was using pillow? Hell, he could have even squeezed him from behind, compressing air out and not allowing him to inhale. Either way, this dad needs to be GONE from society for the rest of his miserable life. Still haven't heard if the GF alibi is airtight?

OT Deorr

When did Vernal call 911? Was that ever released? I don't even remember people saying he called. Either way...you can distinctly hear a male voice talking while Jessica is on the phone to 911. Can't be dad cuz he was 1/2 mile away supposedly, correct? There's something hinky there for sure. Anxious to see what Klein says and if they release what this "witness" says. Also, remember when FBI released that they were unable to test some evidence that was gathered? Again, hinky or the fact that this was not cordoned off as a crime scene immediately will be why no one is ever charged.

I will say once again that I am stunned that A. Bull has not been arrested for something! Donae does a lot of talking on her FB about her bitterness, hatred and the devil..sometimes she leaves it up but most times she posts and then removes.

I know. Something is up with this coroner. Drowning is not hard to confirm. Why did we just hear about the bruise now? That doesn't seem like the type of evidence they'd withhold (but I guess....just don't see how it is special but saying he didn't walk there on his own was okay to let out way back when).

The FBI thing was BIZARRE. That's the thing I want an answer about more than anything else.

And now no press release? Delayed for 24 hours? Why'd they even dangle that carrot? Why'd they do the q and a? Just put out a release when it's ready, you know? What's the point of telling people you're going to do it a week in advance? I hope we see something tomorrow. People are mad. I don't think we are owed anything from the investigators, but they shouldn't have said anything until it was READY.

Beyond a reasonable doubt, there is NO evidence of abduction, wandering away, or attack by a wild animal. There is no truth to the "Black Rubicon" that was thrown into the mix. The only things NOT ruled out are murder/accident and that is the way they will directing the rest of their investigation.

Thank you for your analysis. I posted here about Sandy Hook because it has become topical again (evoked by Obama in his speech on gun control). It is an important event that the vast majority of people only have knowledge about through MSM. It has been and will continue to be used as a touchstone for government propaganda. It was one of the saddest media stories in recent history: Beslan and 9/11 are probably the 2 comparable media events that really shook people across the world. Sandy Hook is an exceptionally important story for all of us.

I have a lot of admiration for the posters here - they spot things that I don't. I get an overall feel/impression but it is fascinating for me to see how people here can really delve into the nitty gritty detail.