Does anyone know if goku in this new form will be faster than thought [not trying to start a debate on this but how would he stack up against thought robot] I only ask since he can continually improve himself & it seems similar in potential

Yes Whis confirmed and the clown god dubbel confiirmed according to Herms

bullshit, that hasn't been stated anywhere.

Yes it was. Whis literally stated the rumor about a mortal stronger than the GoD's was true.

Also. When Goku's Ultra Instinct form was revealed, it was stated that the gods all feared it and that it even surpassed them.

I meant him saying that Jiren is stronger than Beerus is confirmed, not the Mortal>God thing. If anything the gods didn't fear it, they were shocked.

He didn't say that Jiren was stronger than Beerus specifically, but it is very plainly stated that the mastery of self-movement given by an Ultra Instinct form was something not even GoD's possessed. Also, in the closing of 110, it was plainly stated that the gods feared Goku's new transformation, and this is evidenced when it is stated that all the gods were panicking over his new abilities.

I'm not complaining at all. Also I've yet to watch it subbed, I'm just going off the translations given by the twitter translators. I mistook his comment to mean Jiren>Beerus, it's late in Toronto so I'm kinda tired.

Nobody is going to talk about goku's precognition, his reactive evolution (they say that he was becoming more powerful with each blow) and that they were shaking the entire world of void? (which is infinite in size).

Therefir wrote:Nobody is going to talk about goku's precognition, his reactive evolution (they say that he was becoming more powerful with each blow) and that they were shaking the entire world of void? (which is infinite in size).

Yeah that was a really awesome feat, one question, shaking the void would turn them to high 3-A? (void is infinite)

Therefir wrote:Nobody is going to talk about goku's precognition, his reactive evolution (they say that he was becoming more powerful with each blow) and that they were shaking the entire world of void? (which is infinite in size).

SSG was also getting more powerful with each strike, it's likely that Goku is just mastering the form over time.

On a side note, it's a shame that this was introduced. Now he'll be using the form against practically every threat, then EVERY threat is magically going to be able to keep up with his ultra instinct, which makes it completely obsolete. Outside of the Vegeta, the gods and higher, I don't want anybody to be able to take on this form besides Hit or Jiren. ):<

Therefir wrote:Nobody is going to talk about goku's precognition, his reactive evolution (they say that he was becoming more powerful with each blow) and that they were shaking the entire world of void? (which is infinite in size).

Yeah that was a really awesome feat, one question, shaking the void would turn them to high 3-A? (void is infinite)

I have a thread going on about this right now. High 3-A is kinda controversial, but I could definitely see a "3-A, possibly higher," rating if everyone agrees on it. I also posted scans in that thread.

Was that Frieza giving Goku energy at the end? Also is no one gonna talk about Goku flying during the Spirit Bomb struggle? He was clearly levitating for a long time. Unless he was falling but cinematic time made it extremely slowed down.

I can't wait for Hit vs Jiren. If Goku was able to evolve in that short amount of time, just imagine Hit with his hax reactive evolution.

I have a thread going on about this right now. High 3-A is kinda controversial, but I could definitely see a "3-A, possibly higher," rating if everyone agrees on it. I also posted scans in that thread.

I don't think is controversial, the more I look that scene, the more I think they really are High 3-A, the spirit bomb gathers so much energy from jiren and goku that it crushes itself like a black hole.

The possible reason for them ever being High 3-A was being able to affect a structure which is infinite in size with the weight of their ki, as well as being equal or superior to Gods of Destruction, the black hole-esque effect is really unquantifiable.

I have a thread going on about this right now. High 3-A is kinda controversial, but I could definitely see a "3-A, possibly higher," rating if everyone agrees on it. I also posted scans in that thread.

I have a thread going on about this right now. High 3-A is kinda controversial, but I could definitely see a "3-A, possibly higher," rating if everyone agrees on it. I also posted scans in that thread.

What I really love though is how different this fight felt. Jiren and Goku intital clash just gives this impression of not just power but high levels of skill. I especially love how Jiren doesn't seem to have a gimick other than being really powerful and really skilled.

Also I agree, destroy Ribrianne. I kind of hope she just ends up caught between Jiren, Goku and Hit and gets obliterated.

otherwise pretty cool episode, i would say it's the best super episode so far tbh

Jiren hype is on point it's been while since we felt Goku is helpless against the threat, i though KKx20 may do some work but no !, Goku new form was also hype and he was actually overwhelming Jiren until his form gone away, well guess he can't control it yet

Jiren confirmed to be the mortal that surpassed the god who beat beerus in arm wrestling fight and this episode scream Goku is sending shivers to the gods "although still not complet the form"

ZERO7772 wrote:Now watch Hit doing job on jiren next episode after he was jobbing to dyspo lol

Or the fact that a bunch of people were now able to somewhat perceive Goku vs Jiren, who are faster than Dyspo who not even Champa and Omni-King could see.

I was under the impression that Dyspo was the fastest mortal, even faster than Jiren since speed is his specialty. Mainly because it's implied that Dyspo is faster than a God of Destruction (Champa in this case).

I was under the impression that Dyspo was the fastest mortal, even faster than Jiren since speed is his specialty. Mainly because it's implied that Dyspo is faster than a God of Destruction (Champa in this case).

Goku blocked him due to him having linear movement. Basically, he's able to deal with his speed without being faster than him (sort of like aim-dodging). Also, he only blocked him once, but Dyspo was giving him trouble right after that.

I personally dont think The Gods of Destruction have been truly surpassed. Just extremely surprised and worried on HOW strong they can be. Yeah...They said jiren is the mortal on the level of Gods, but i really dont think they would throw away that status for the gods....just yet

Im waiting for Zeno to be just one of like, 7 Ultra gods of the different dimensions, and hes governed by true god Lord Popo

I personally dont think The Gods of Destruction have been truly surpassed. Just extremely surprised and worried on HOW strong they can be. Yeah...They said jiren is the mortal on the level of Gods, but i really dont think they would throw away that status for the gods....just yet

Im waiting for Zeno to be just one of like, 7 Ultra gods of the different dimensions, and hes governed by true god Lord Popo

Whise stated he may have already surpassed the god status, clown god was worried from the SB but jiren tank it, he said no being can match jiren "which would include himself" and then he was tearing his hair from the fact there someone who can match jiren like this

All the gods were shivering from Goku's new form and made VERY big deal about it

Well there always exuses to make i guess huh, if he truly above gods they will say it directly they are yet to even explain his new form

When Hit interupted Jiren at the end, and Jiren asks "What do you want", Hit responded with "I'm working". I think that means he intends to kill Jiren. He probably feels like it's worth it to get himself disqualified in order to eliminate such a huge threat.

I personally dont think The Gods of Destruction have been truly surpassed. Just extremely surprised and worried on HOW strong they can be. Yeah...They said jiren is the mortal on the level of Gods, but i really dont think they would throw away that status for the gods....just yet

Im waiting for Zeno to be just one of like, 7 Ultra gods of the different dimensions, and hes governed by true god Lord Popo

Whise stated he may have already surpassed the god status, clown god was worried from the SB but jiren tank it, he said no being can match jiren "which would include himself" and then he was tearing his hair from the fact there someone who can match jiren like this

All the gods were shivering from Goku's new form and made VERY big deal about it

Well there always exuses to make i guess huh, if he truly above gods they will say it directly they are yet to even explain his new form

The narrator in the closing scene states that all the gods fear Goku's new form (except presumably the Angels and Zen'o, who were more in awe than scared)

I personally dont think The Gods of Destruction have been truly surpassed. Just extremely surprised and worried on HOW strong they can be. Yeah...They said jiren is the mortal on the level of Gods, but i really dont think they would throw away that status for the gods....just yet

Im waiting for Zeno to be just one of like, 7 Ultra gods of the different dimensions, and hes governed by true god Lord Popo

Whise stated he may have already surpassed the god status, clown god was worried from the SB but jiren tank it, he said no being can match jiren "which would include himself" and then he was tearing his hair from the fact there someone who can match jiren like this

All the gods were shivering from Goku's new form and made VERY big deal about it

Well there always exuses to make i guess huh, if he truly above gods they will say it directly they are yet to even explain his new form

The narrator in the closing scene states that all the gods fear Goku's new form (except presumably the Angels and Zen'o, who were more in awe than scared)

Everybody is about to start hitting themselves with spirit bombs to unlock this state smh

What I liked:

Goku's Oozaru screams while attacking Jiren

Everything else

What I disliked:

Already making inconsistencies. Everybody couldn't see Dyspo's attacks, but now they can magically track Goku and Jiren. But Goku used SSB KKx20 and people could track him then, despite him only using standard SSG/SSB against Dyspo. Can't catch a break. I wonder if Hit will run out of stored time, and get demolished.

I personally dont think The Gods of Destruction have been truly surpassed. Just extremely surprised and worried on HOW strong they can be. Yeah...They said jiren is the mortal on the level of Gods, but i really dont think they would throw away that status for the gods....just yet

Im waiting for Zeno to be just one of like, 7 Ultra gods of the different dimensions, and hes governed by true god Lord Popo

Whise stated he may have already surpassed the god status, clown god was worried from the SB but jiren tank it, he said no being can match jiren "which would include himself" and then he was tearing his hair from the fact there someone who can match jiren like this

All the gods were shivering from Goku's new form and made VERY big deal about it

Well there always exuses to make i guess huh, if he truly above gods they will say it directly they are yet to even explain his new form

The narrator in the closing scene states that all the gods fear Goku's new form (except presumably the Angels and Zen'o, who were more in awe than scared)

So that 100% confirm Goku surpassed the gods huh ?

That's not what confirms it as much as Goku and Jiren being masters of a technique that not even GoDs can master.

What I personally got from the special was that Ultra Instinct Goku and Jiren are comparable to the GoDs, not strictly above them. They might be stronger than some but weaker than others, but definitely in the same tier as them, similar to probably Vegito and Merged Zamasu...and Sword of Hope Trunks I guess.

Pikachu942 wrote:What I personally got from the special was that Ultra Instinct Goku and Jiren are comparable to the GoDs, not strictly above them. They might be stronger than some but weaker than others, but definitely in the same tier as them, similar to probably Vegito and Merged Zamasu...and Sword of Hope Trunks I guess.

Relative to the same power or not, it can be argued that they are stronger than the GoDs based entirely off of the Mastery of Self-Movement.

Fun fact: Jiren is probably one, if not the weakest High 3-A vsbattles wise under SBA. He lets the enemy use all they got before crushing them with his almighty power. So its totally in character for him to let the character he is put against use their ace and win. lol.

That may not be true, it was said Jiren was intently watching Goku the whole time, he knew what he was capable of and let him get it off because he knew it wouldn't work, that or he's gonna be the king of Jobbers.

TheJ-ManRequiem wrote:
That may not be true, it was said Jiren was intently watching Goku the whole time, he knew what he was capable of and let him get it off because he knew it wouldn't work, that or he's gonna be the king of Jobbers.

If he is put against people in his tier, then it will have the same effect, as those guys are on his level. He will feel curious about it just like he did with goku.

Aceraspire wrote:
He let Goku use his max power & spirit bomb so that others would see how strong he is so that they realize they are powerless against him.

That was intention of U11 GOD

No. Belmod wanted to defeat Goku so the U7 and the others would lose their will to fight. When Goku was charging the Genki dama the Kaioshin mentioned the "Let the enemy use all their power and then crush them" thing and afterwards Belmod said something like "that's how Jiren does things".

I'm not sure about Low 2-C Grand Priest via Shin's statement. I mean I don't think Goku actually "fought" Infinite Zamasu. They got one-shoted. However if Shin meant stronger than Merged Zamasu then it would make sense since Jiren and Goku might be "High 3-A" whereas MZ is only "3-A".

So clearly Jiren is being well recieved by the fans now, and for good reason. However, is anyone disappointed that he still just turned out to be nothing more than "really really strong"? I was hoping he would have some hax, like Hit.

I never said Whis wouldn't stomp Jiren. But I'm saying one could at least use the argument that Beerus and Whis were clearly much more impressed and reactive towards Jiren's power than they were to Zamasu's. Though I'm not too sure.

I meant that in the Zamasu case, they were the ones handling thr stuff. If they were the ones fighting jiren directly, specially Whis, I dont think he'd make a big deal out of it. Beerus alone would likely have a hard time.

Well at least it is clear from the special now that the mortal who is stronger than the GoD who is stronger than Beerus is Jiren. That means UI Goku's power should be around Belmod's and it is still climbing! I like the fact that this is not another Saiyan transformation but a new Godly Technique that Jiren most likely knows.

Saying Jiren could beat Whis is silly the angels are on a completely higher level but they're getting closer

I'm curious as to where Fusion Zamasu's power lies and how Vegito fits into all of this...

Yeah. As much as I miss Cell, there's a reason why Frieza is one of the most well known characters of the series. He's legitimately evil and deliciously charismatic. While recycling villains is generally something I'm against, Frieza is too good of a character to waste and I'm glad he's a top dog character treated as threat. Close to Goku's equal. Maybe not yet but he's up there if you know what I mean.

Has anyone come to realize that besides the angels and Zeno, Jiren might be the strongest character in Dragon ball? Like that is a HUUUUUGE leap in power. i mean, it took a ssb vegito (whose literally thousands of times stronger than ssb goku or vegeta, possibly Vastly even more, due to current updates) to just be compared to beerus, while jiren is speculated by whis to possibly be above G.O.D level. Like WOW

Ovrhide wrote:Has anyone come to realize that besides the angels and Zeno, Jiren might be the strongest character in Dragon ball? Like that is a HUUUUUGE leap in power. i mean, it took a ssb vegito (whose literally thousands of times stronger than ssb goku or vegeta, possibly Vastly even more, due to current updates) to just be compared to beerus, while jiren is speculated by whis to possibly be above G.O.D level. Like WOW

Never question the logic of DBS, also Vegito isn't that much stronger than Goku and Vegeta, he's dozen times stronger at best

There isn't that much leap in power between Goku and Vegito in DBS like back in DBZ

So will we be giving Vegito, Sword of Hope Trunks and possibly Fused Zamasu High 3-A as well due to Shin's statement of Vegito being comparable to Beerus at max power, 0r not because that was manga only?

Whis judged what his max potential could be so let's not wank casual Jiren>god of destruction. In fact he says perhaps Jiren has surrpased his god of destruction, but he don't know that for sure ethier.

Realization just dawned on me, with his new form, Goku in a no holds barred battle against Pre-Crisis Superman ((Granted a certain sword isn't in play)) would win...I'd never thought I'd live to see the day

I do think Jiren and Goku's upgrades to High 3-A should mean Fused Zamasu (in both states) and SSB Vegito follow suit. I'm convinced that both of the latter characters are still more powerful than the former characters.

Can't confirm that belief until Jiren and Goku provide more feats, of course. I'll wait and see.

I don't think goku can get any higher. Besides the typical power buffs, it pretty much stated he reached his ultimate potential. It was leading up to goku always underestimating his ultimate and leaving himself wide open, but now with ultra instinct his chances of losing as slimmed considerably.

Jiren who already has instinctual combat didn't lose, because he already fought with instinct.

@Ryu I hope there is something more to it, but whatever, its dbs we are talking about. Maybe zamasu is the most complex villain we have had. My expectations for something like jiren's backstory are low. But I can assure you it can be done much better than that.

I heard this theory that Belmod is secretly giving Jiren power. Which is why he has his ridiculous, godlike strength. I don't think it's likely to be true, but I do think it'd be a very interesting concept/twist.

MeleeniumRXJ wrote:You know come to think of it, Jiren would fit perfectly in OPM as a parody antagonist and as Saitama's arch rival. Jiren sort of gives off the vibe of being so powerful that it's comical.

It should happen. One should by the rights to Jiren and use him in OPM xD

Jiren is the kind of character that Saitama is meant to parody. Extremely overpowered yet bland with little traits besides "he's so strong!"

Mayhaps he survived the destruction of his universe and was forgotten from history? Again, just hypothesizing about him, he could just be a stupidly OP character who has never ever been mentioned before because of PIS.

MeleeniumRXJ wrote:You know come to think of it, Jiren would fit perfectly in OPM as a parody antagonist and as Saitama's arch rival. Jiren sort of gives off the vibe of being so powerful that it's comical.

It should happen. One should by the rights to Jiren and use him in OPM xD

Jiren is the kind of character that Saitama is meant to parody. Extremely overpowered yet bland with little traits besides "he's so strong!"

That's why Jiren would be perfect as the main antagonist of One Punch Man. If Jiren were in OPM, being bland and overpowered would be utterly deliberate and acknowledged by the writers, and probably taken to a more comical level. I'm just picturing it and can already see the comedic potential there.

Back in Buu saga he kept saying "oh i can't beat Buu he's too strong" and "if vegeta can't do it i can't " then comes the final battle with kid buu and Goku is like : Oh btw i could have killed buu from the first time but didn't do because it wanted you guys to do something about it