Censored by Marty

Have you been Censored By Marty™?

Marty Rathbun has every right to censor comments on his blog, and I have every right to post them on mine. So if you have a comment that’s been Censored By Marty™, I encourage you to post it here! Please cite the name/link of the original post and your original comment. (Hint: If you’re posting a comment you think is likely to be Censored By Marty™, it’s a good idea to copy and paste it into a word doc before clicking Submit.)

Please note: I reserve the right to edit anything abusive our outrageously inappropriate, but all edits will be noted and no comments will be censored.

Marty, back in 1996, when you and Mike were part of Church management, the CoS did something very similar when they bought up the Cult Awareness Network assets and assumed their operation. Did you object to that action then, as you are objecting to this action here and now?

So you think that Scientology in Dallas is failing because David Miscavige spent money on a new building? Not because Texas is loaded with right-wing christians and L. Ron Hubbard said that Jesus was a lover of young men and boys? Is there anything you sheeple won’t blame on David Miscavige? Whatever Marty says, you just repeat it, just like you do with Elron and like you used to do with David Miscavige. Get a clue, people. The only reason Scientology is failing is that Hubbard was full of shit, and most people are able to think for themselves.

Alex AND AnonTex, would both of you care to stick to comments that were censored on Marty’s blog? Please refrain from arguing here. If you want to discuss this I’d suggest starting a thread on the Ex-Scientologist Message Board at http://www.forum.exscn.net/index.php. Thanks.

I said:
Wait a minute, Marty – Heber was allowed to leave for LA to see his son three days after the “Free Heber” post, and you didn’t write anything about that? That’s a rather glaring omission, don’t you think?

This comment, which I tried to word very nicely considering the circumstances, was censored. It relates to his latest post about Heber’s ex-wife Karen leaving the cult – specifically her story about her (now adult) son Alex rejecting her for leaving the cult.

“I’m trying to understand this. So just to be clear, you left the SO in 1990- due to the insane and brutal treatment you, as well as your ex-husband, suffered. So how could allow your TEN year old son join the SO just four years later?

Knowing what you know, you couldn’t be shocked to find out your very young son was not being properly educated and used as slave labor in Florida. You said they finally sent him to LA, but does that just mean he was sent to slave away at PAC or INT, or was he actually removed from the SO for a few years and allowed proper schooling and to enjoy what remained of his childhood? In the next paragraph you simply skip to him being a married adult with a pregnant wife. Filling in the gap here might go along way to explain the behavior and beliefs of your son, and what can be expect on the road ahead.

I’m just curious, because if he wasn’t pulled from the SO at 11 years of age that means he has lived almost his entire life in the SO (with the exception of 4 years). Therefore, he has never had a chance to experience the real world or received a proper, secular education that would allow him some insight into the world outside of DM and Scientology.”

All the posters on Marty’s blog, including Marty are referring to her as a mama lion and praising her for fighting for her “cub.” I think any sane mother would have never handed their son over to a cult at 10 years of age. Its particularly odious when you consider she had experience with the SO and knew how poorly they treated members. Now she has the nerve to bitch about her son rejecting her for leaving the cult – even though she was the one who ensured his total indoctrination and is responsible for keeping him apart from any semblance of the real world and even worse – away from a real education.

Also it bears mentioning that Karen De La Carriere (what an obnoxious, obviously self-inflicted surname) is a “great businesswoman” because she sells tons of those godawful Kincaide kitsch painting via ebay – in fact she’s the largest private dealer in the country. (excluding those oh so tasteful mall outlet galleries) An article on Kincaide mentions her house is just full of his crap.

Seems like Karen doesn’t only have bad taste in religion – it extends to art and most definitely plastic surgery. She looks to be about 2 steps away from entering the Michael Jackson freakzone of plastic surgery.

I also have trouble with the plastic surgery. She looks so bizarre that I tried listening to her but not looking at the computer screen. She still sounded like a loon. Maybe if I read a transcript… I suppose there isn’t a single organization on Earth that can be proud of all its leaders.

Mirna, I’m four years late but I came across your post here only now and felt the need to answer it, though in a different fashion from the other commenters here. I am not a native speaker so it will be easy for you to make fun of errors I make. I do not know what accomplisments in life entitle you to your patronising and arrogant disparagement of Karen who has done so much to expose the lies and frauds of scientology, helped victims of that cult and devoted a hell of a lot of her time to that cause. I find that admirable. If someone, anyone exhibits that devotion to a just cause, I don’t give a shit what they look like, what name they might choose for themselves, what art they prefer or what job they hold. Your evaluations seem to focus on exactly these issues. How sad.
Also, you do not seem to care much about other people. If I was Karen, I would feel hurt by your comment. If people would only think for ten seconds before they attack someone in a very personal way (and criticising everything from one’s looks to one’s taste to one’s job feels very personal to me) on the Internet, this world would be so much nicer.

OK. It has been roughly 24 hours since I posted this on Marty’s blog. He has not published it, nor replied to it, privately. I no longer feel constrained by my offer of privacy. Fair warning has been given:

Hi, Marty,
It’s OSA boy, again. You’ve had plenty of time to reply, but you chose not to. Pity! I would have kept my word. Your disrespect shows me that it is not necessary.
I will now post my comment on Caliwog’s blog.
Sorry, dude, but it’s on you, alone.
RB

Here’s the original post, but I need to say 2 things first:

Dear Unity, it appears that our thoughts on this are not very different.

Dear Mirna, How DARE you denigrate the art of T. Kinkaide? It is sold in some of the finest hardware stores and sporting goods catalogues in the NATION.

Anyway, here Is the post that Hiz Hollowness censored:

Hi, Marty,

‘tis I, your favorite new “OSA operative”, back yet, again. I know that you have nothing approaching the level of integrity necessary to publish this posting, so I address this solely to you, in the hope that you will see it, let alone actually READ it, before one of your minion(s?) excises it.

Karen De La Carriere/Jentzsch’s recounting, of the abuses that she and her family endured at the hands of the CoS, is horrifying. This is yet another tragedy to be laid at the feet of the CoS, and, sadly, I fear that it will not be the last.

Yet, careful perusal of this article raises many questions. Will you answer them? You have my email address, you can reply to me privately, if you prefer. I think that it would be enjoyable to converse, and even cross swords, without a lot of outside commentary. Are you game? I give you my word, NOT ONE SYLLABLE of what you share with me will EVER be released.

1. I cannot begin to know what Ms De La Carriere/Jentzsch was going through during those years. I can read it, accept her descriptions of it, even understand it, in an academic sort of way, but I have never endured such treatment. Therefore, I cannot “know” it, can I? So, I have to ask this. Why did she surrender her minor child to an organization which she knew to be corrupt, from her own first-hand experience? Why was she surprised at the outcome?

LRH laid the ground rules. Surely she knew that. His (mis)treatment of children on the Apollo is well documented. Why did she, again, succumb to the siren song of the SO? Why did she hand over her child? Did she suspect that he would receive preferential treatment because of his parentage?

It appears to me that this “Mother Bear” grew her fangs way too late to be of any use, other than to gnash them at DM. She should have bared them years before, at LRH, AND DM, AND the COS.

If this seems insensitive, know that it comes from someone for whom family is ALL. I won’t hesitate to defend. I won’t obfuscate. I won’t bull-bait. You won’t even see it coming. I’ll just shit your bones.

2. I understand that people who are recovering from mind control, such as that practiced by the CoS, must go through stages in their healing process. It is much the same as the stages of grief that people must endure and work through. Why don’t you let this happen?

You appear to be a classic “enabler”. You encourage people to get stuck in an intermediate state, and never progress to true freedom. “Oh, poor baby, it’s all DM’s fault. Come back to LRH!” LRH was a LIAR, a CON MAN, and a CRIMINAL (NOT AN OPINION, BUT LEGAL AND HISTORICAL FACT) and DM is, perhaps, his finest student, in that regard. What service do you render to your flock? Why do you further the myth that LRH is the source of truth, and that DM is a miscreant? THE TWO ARE ONE AND THE SAME.

Is it self-interest, Marty? Are you imagining yourself to be the White Knight who will step in and rescue “the Tech” from the evil wizard? Do you see yourself as Caesar crossing the Rubicon? Do you envision your triumphal return to “Gold Base”? Oh yes, I have noticed your use of the royal plural – LAME! Or, do you merely refer to the “hive mind” which you seek, so desperately, to control? Disabuse yourself of these grandiose dreams. Your cherished organization is in the throes of disembowelment.

Come to grips with reality, Marty. You are at a personal and historical nexus. You are in a position to do IMMENSE GOOD, or you can be flushed down the toilet of history as just one more two-bit LRH apologist.

Marty said I should read more of LRH’s stuff and I was taking things too literally. I wrote another comment (wish I had saved it) saying something like how else should I take it? LRH wrote what he wrote, aren’t we supposed to take him at face value? Last time I checked it was still in moderation. Marty cut my comment and let himself has the last word!

Thanks Caliwog, I am glad you put up a place for censored comments. I get the feeling Marty censors A LOT. And to think his poor followers think they are getting the truth.

My comment: Too bad his first interview is appearing all the way over in Australia where it won’t get many views in the US outside of interested parties on the internet. I’m sure DM is thrilled he managed to keep Mike’s first interview off US and European airwaves, or did you play a part in that Marty by refusing to discuss LRH’s real past, deeds and only acknowledging media that will go along with a pro-scientology spiel in the process of spilling the beans on DM’s abusive nature?

It’s well known you won’t play ball with media that won’t follow the “it’s all DM’s fault” storyline. Anyone with legit questions about Hubbard, his legacy of abuse and asks questions about Scientology doctrine like alien overlords and galactic confederations gets the cold shoulder from you and anyone associated with your new movement.

Also, interesting Marty how you pissed on the original Australian inquiry in Oz and the media surrounding done by the 7 witnesses involved but now are all promoting media in Oz because of Mike’s interview and it agrees with your slanted party line – to scapegoat all the evils of Scientology on DM and forget about the real root of all the evil – LRH.

It really is too bad that there is not a way to get the information posted here out to the independent movement. You all write excellently stated material and this should be disseminated to the unwashed masses in any version of Scientology. I say keep writing, maybe something will get through.

Marty censored my comment to his post for Aug.14th entitled “Pimps, Prostitutes, and Disconnection.” There was never a doubt that Marty would delete it but I’m glad to know he at least read it. Here is my comment;

“Why didn’t you call the police Marty?, you just left a beaten up woman alone with her attacker because she told you to go away? Pretty darn ethical yep, but then again prostitution is pretty low down on the tone scale. all i can say is WOW.”

Now I know its a simple comment, but it is direct and to the point. If it was a benign comment Marty would have posted it and let his throngs of ass-kissers have their way with me, but it wasn’t benign and I’m sure it stung at least a little bit. Marty tries his best to come across as an intelligent “thetan” but then he goes and says some of the stupidest things possible.

“You say you don’t want to be a leader and yet you act as a leader.
The format of this blog, which is used by many independents as the main communication hub on the internet automatically puts you in the position of a leader. You always have the first word and can determine the topic of the discussion with your posting to which the others can only comment. You also have full control over the conversations, because you can moderate the comments and censor comments that you disapprove of.
This automatically puts you in the position of a leader.
If you don’t want this, then you should use a forum, where everyone has the same communication rigths instead of a blog as a means for open communication.

Geir Isene made a forum to discuss Scientology, which is secure for Scientologists, who don’t want to be exposed to confidential material:http://www.scnforum.org
”

censored by Marty.

What does this tell you? Marty wants to be a leader and he wants to have followers, although he claims the opposite.
The sycophants on his blog ARE his followers.

To any independent Scientologist or newly out of the cult reading this:
Do you want to be truly independent? Then seek open discussion, challenge your own fixed ideas don’t rely only on Marty on his blog. Marty is not special. Marty is not the new “saviour”. Marty doesn’t have the answers.

There are many many whistleblowers, who had much more courage than him and alreaedy spoke out 20 years ago and earlier about the same kind of abuses that he now speaks out, although he doesn’t even reveal the full truth, but merely reiterates what others such as Marc Headly, Jesse Prince, Larry Brennan have said before him.
Here is a list of over 1000 ex-CoS-members who have spoken out before him:http://wiki.whyweprotest.net/Former_Church_of_Scientology_members_who_have_spoken_out

My comment in reply to Mike Rinders post,http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/08/24/survey-what-impinges-results/
was censored but I really don’t know why as I was quoting LRH verbatim. And it certainly made sense given the subject of Mike’s rant. The censored comment ;
I don’t think D.M. is to far off course as for as LRH policy goes;
“MAKE MONEY. MAKE MORE MONEY. MAKE OTHER PEOPLE PRODUCE SO AS TO MAKE MORE MONEY.”
– L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 9 March 1972, MS OEC 384

I mean I makes cense to me, why du you suppose THAT would be censored by Marty?

Marty, it’s a little hypocritical to run an article saying that thought-stopping is bad and curiosity is good, when you yourself censor comments that are critical of yourself and/or LRH – don’t you think?

And Jim, I agree that Jesse believes he has benefited from “auditing”, many -and I should say most- of the valuable procedures Mr. Hubbard put forth in the “early stages of Dienetics” (you know its funny my new MacBook Pro’s Spell Check software can not “word-clear” Dianetics) were around in some form and fashion from the beginnings of the -true and bona fide -sciences of mental health. I realize that you find it hard to believe that the accredited Mental Health community of today can hardly be called “a true and bona fide science but trust the billions of people that do, okay?
Jesse said it all when he said this about you Marty;
“What happens in auditing or any therapy when the person receiving the service can not speak freely. After that everyone involved is just pretending.”
Think about it Jim, and you to Marty you see when a person opens up and speaks freely you have real communication, unfortunately if he is speaking bullshit – whether he believes it or not – you have….well, something like scientology…do you understand that? Jim? Marty?

and Jim, speaking of communication,(I refuse to say “comm” its so lazy), why is it that you and others in the cult cant say things like communication or importance? why must you change it to “comm and import”? its lazy and just plain bogus, and the same goes for other made up words like the afore mentioned “havingness”, and my favorite ” beingness “..really “beingness” ?
well I must throw in my “new made up word” BOGOSSITY, that is my word defining LRH’s “everythingness!!!!

Go ahead print this if you dare!!!
I am sure this will be thrown in the garbage bucket, but I know at least one of you have read this!!!!
TTFN

Hi Jonny D, sorry, this got caught in the spam filter, not sure why. It should be live now. Thanks for posting it and please keep those censored comments coming! Much as he might like to, Marty can’t shut us up.

I replied to a real doozy of a comment made by Joe Howard about Marty’s latest post entitled Anonymous or Miscavige?:http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/09/22/anonymous-or-miscavige/#comments
When I left my comment under Joe’s, no one yet had replied to his comment.
Of course mine was tossed, but when i checked this morning quite a few people replied to Joe from my point of view. Here is my comment;

Really Joe? Anons hired by OSA ?
Not in a million years, first off, Anons are not “paid”by anyone, and second, Anonymous despises all things OSA . Joe you have a great imagination, and thats a good thing, but “Anonymous being the incestuous cousins of DM & Co.” is right up there with “XENU”.
TTFN
jd

I have a quarrel with Marty, but I limit my actions to strong words on my blog. I would never in a million years mess with Marty and his family, and believe (and hope!) other anons feel the same way. The Church doesn’t seem to have those scruples, and this has “Fair Game” written all over it. I have to admit, the bit about LRH vs DM is a rather ingenious and authentic touch, but the idea of “dealing with” Marty with pizzas and phone calls has OSA written all over it.

Don’t know if you’ll let this comment stand, Marty, but as one of your most ardent protesters, I want you to know that I think this sort of harassment is reprehensible. Everything I feel needs to be done, can be done with the written word. Harassment of this sort, against you, Mosey, or anyone, is wrong. I’ve always spoken out against it and I always will.

BTW, your point about the interdependence between Anonymous and the Church is interesting, and one I’ll probably write more about.

Be well and have a good trip.

ML,
Caliwog

UPDATE:

Marty DID post my comment! And he replied:

martyrathbun09 | September 22, 2010 at 4:06 pm | Reply
Just this once likely. I find your writings dishonest and hateful for the most part.

Marty is clever fellow, I do believe, after reading all of the finger pointing going on in the comments of “Anonymous or Miscavige?”, that Marty at the very least is turning the attention away from himself – i know, i know – and getting his “people” a little pissed at the Anonymous folks, further fortifying the “Us against Them” mentality, that seems to give ALL scientologists their God forsaken “beingness”

Terril Park | October 23, 2010 at 10:00 pm | ReplyKaren#1 said:-
“ …I’ve many times stated that the critics have a similar viewpoint to
the Freezoners. They both want to make the world a better place.
There are a few, who are rabidly anti anything connected to scn.
Just google my name and you will immediately see some of the efforts
against myself. ”
—-
TomatoTester | October 28, 2010 at 11:04 pm | ReplyYour comment is awaiting moderation.
“There are a few, who are rabidly anti anything connected to scn.
Just google my name and you will immediately see some of the efforts
against myself. ”

No effort is needed, you are a nutter.
Whilst I disagree with the whole subject of “scientology”, if you want to believe it/practice it that is your right.
Corporate scientology is a corrupt organisation however. Always has been, and that did NOT start when DM grabbed power. Marty could prove this if he wanted to… but then again, orange suit? #IRS #LRH #ConMan

I have tried on a couple of occasions to post the court docs where LRH knew and directed operation snowwhite on Marty’s blog….no chance of that happening! As far as marty is concerned, LRH can do no wrong, and yet he ‘brought up’ DM! Some day he will see the light I guess.

There are literally THOUSANDS of documents concerning operation snow white, and DOZENS that connect LRH with it. YOU WILL NEVER SEE THEM ON MARTY’S BLOG!

Well you just never know when Marty will or will-not let “people speak freely”,
I left a comment to a video post by Kathy Gold on Marty’s latest Blog installment entitled “A Letter From Garcia” the video post by Kathy was a scene from the movie “300” when the Bad Ass kick the Dumb Ass down the big never ending hole.
I did not save my precise comment but it went something like this;

” you can hardly compare the “struggle” of the independent movement to the actual hardships the Greek armies dealt with fighting the Persians….
and even as an analogy it really doesn’t work and Kathy you should know that”

anyway I did not save my comment because I really thought it was so benign that there would be no cause to censor it….silly me.

We were ‘vetted with a background investigation and a polygraph exam–OSA uses an Ohmmeter

Persons working for an Intel agency usually have a degree in some sort of political science or real science, real degrees from real colleges–OSA operatives usually barely finished high school

Intel agency personnel usually are well-travelled, well-trained and highly intelligent–OSA not so much.

Intel agencies do not have to hire PI’s to conduct surveillances etc….they are well trained in such techniques–again OSA, not so much.

The ‘intel cycle’ is unheard of in OSA documents.

Intel agencies constantly update their training and resources and don’t rely on 40-50 year old spy novels as their basis like OSA does.

How many OSA ‘operations’ in the past few years have become common knowledge? Considering that Scientology itself and the OSA in particular are such a ‘microcosm’ of the real world, this is a terrible track record!

OSA operates at the same level as the Keystone Cops, the only reason to keep promoting them is to instill fear in the scientology 2.0 crowd!

Censored again (29 Nov) Marty fabricates an “OSA operation” on his blog, and when I asked to see pics of the REAL docs I was deleted! Imagine that!
It’s a good thing he is dealing with mind-controlled idiots or else someone else might actually question him!

Hey, I actually GOT ON marty’s blog today (6JAN)…..he called me OSA!!! no surprise there. He knew about the OSA op on Chuck Beatty for years and DID NOTHING!!! What a piece of crap. Anyhow…his last little post has exploded in his face…comments from everywhere.

Never been in an org never took a $cifag class, never spent even one cent on the cult. Marty should know better.

>We also didn’t have years of virtually all Scientology resources engaging in forcible, life ruining extortion for the most OFF POLICY, OFF SOURCE, and destructive anti-Scientology programs imaginable.

Wait a second, Marty – weren’t you working for the Church when Mark Bunker had people picketing his home and giving flyers to his neighbors saying he was a religious bigot? Remember, Mark had videotape running (http://www.xenutv.com/blog/?p=594). And what about Paulette Cooper? Wasn’t LRH at the helm when that little bit of mental torture took place?

Oh, and speaking of Mark Bunker… you guys really should always have a video camera at hand.

I’m sure you won’t post this comment, Marty – don’t worry, I’ll run it on my site🙂 – but good on Mosey for chasing these guys down. Despite my disagreements with you, I still think the Church’s harassment of you is despicable. You may or may not believe this, but I despite the Church just as you do, and their behavior towards you (and others) is one reason why.

“Sorry Tony,
No I have not “sent out” any Emails regarding anything about Scientology or the independent movement.
However its amazing the way you guys (the independents in Marty’s group) circle the wagons the minute someone says something – no matter how remotely critical- about the movement. I was simply telling Marty that I see a very close comparison between the way the CoS under DM is run almost identically to the way LRH ran it [sic], specifically in the area of intelligence and counter espionage. That is all I am trying to understand. And unfortunately Marty censors comments such as the response I posted after he told me to drink the “freshly spiked Kool-Aid”.
I will not repeat that response in the expectation he will of corse censor / delete this comment as well, prove me wrong Marty, don’t delete this..I am harmless, you after all have the “tech”!!!my “mis-understoods” should not effect you, your dianetic and OT powers should be able to confront and shatter any suppressive goblydegoop that I unintentionally send your way.
So Tony to answer your question, I wouldn’t know where to begin to see let alone find stats generated by the “Corporate Church of $cientology” but I am glad to see you are LOLing about it because it makes zippy sense to me….who are these Kool aide drinkers anyway??
Come on Marty let Tony answer….”

ALSO please check that post by Marty and ALL the comments and responses to MY comment, you will see just how disillusioned this group is, its very alarming and i believe it would behoove all critics to take notice of how SIMILAR the attitudes of the extremists of corporate C0$ and independents are completely aligned when it comes to critics. To assume Marty and his followers wont stoop to the same tactics used by DM and OSA and when he gets backed into a corner,AND HE WILL be backed into a corner, would be a mistake. So be careful.

Sam, regarding Johnny D’s reference to the Co$, Indies aren’t the only ones who dislike the organized Church. Those of us who oppose Scientology in all forms have been using the term for years.

JohnnyD is referring to LRH’s technology on how to handle enemies, which includes the technique of “noisy investigation”. (Google “Scientology Manual of Justice”, and for time, form, place and event, read up on Paulette Cooper.) A lot of us would like to know whether a reformed Church of Scientology would apply these policies.

ML, Caliwog

I am posting another follow-up, which I fully expect to be censored:

So you censored my comment and Johnny D’s follow up, eh, Marty? That’s one of the things you and David Miscavige have in common: You both refuse to realize that you can’t stop the truth from getting out.

“A Sea Org member draws only about 4 pounds a week* and his room and board… staff members over the world work for so little that Execs occasionally get letters from their landladies demanding orgs increase their pay level so staff members can pay their rent. Occasionally some org or franchise goes on a big kick of high pay. We very soon pull the rug out from under that.” — LRH, What Your Fees Buy
* About $53 in 2010 dollars

this is the post i wrote in a frustrated flurry im 100 percent sure its not going to be posted soooo here it is

i call bullshit ” where was the times 20 years ago???” they were under the legal thumb of scientology tech’s fair game policy that LRH put into effect not dm not just you or any other pawn of scientology. the internet has made it easier for the truth to come out…. i call bullshit marty BULLSHIT

sooo and your point??? ohbuddy is the name and i call bull shit to all you lrh lovers scientology is evil to its core and marty is starting the game all over again
and btw what is his point??? yes im that dense

Comment was as follows:
Just wanted to say to all those doubters and skeptics. I have the OT powers. I think I must have them naturally, having acquired them in a past life. I can exteriorize at will, mock up anything I want in the MEST universe, etc. People are always saying ‘Prove it’ to me, but I just say: ‘Look, give me enough money and I’ll teach you how to have these powers’. Then I sit back and watch the MEST moving from them to me. That’s OT for you.

Censored comment: Why is an organization packed with people who are ‘Clear’ and have ‘OT abilities’ so atrociously dysfunctional? I know you blame it in on DM. But the church was dysfunctional while LRH was in charge. Besides, many of the CoS’s members — including you yourself — have participated in DM’s abuses. Surely it is not special, superhuman abilities that are needed, but the human capacities to love and to think critically. Maybe we should focus on learning to take responsibility for our own actions and for the welfare of our fellow humans. We can leave the acquisition of superhuman abilities til we have mastered the basics of being good humans.

Excellent comment, Operatingwog! And, Caliwog, your comments, both here on your site and on Jeff’s site always make a lot of sense to me, and on top of it, since you have an awesome sense of humor, you’ve made me laugh many times! So thanks to both of you and many others, for being truly independent, unlike the ones that are only “Independent” by name, yet are still quite blind and dependent. It feels good to be in your company. Thank you.

I simply posted
“Hey Marty, what about that plot to murder Cynthia Kisser?”

Since Marty was directly involved in plotting her death, and big surprise,
it was deleted! (At least he knows that we are not going to forget his criminal activity.
Gary Scharff posted in his deposition about Marty’s complicity (over on ESMB).

johnny d. | April 3, 2011 at 6:16 pm | Reply Cali,
1st and most of all, I must apologize for my language in previous comments.
Sometimes I go “exterior” and I cannot help whats being typed, R U pick’n up what I’m put’in down…………shi,, i mean shoo….see it just happened!! damn-it, i mean darn-it…
Anyway, I left A recent comment on Mr. Marty’s Blog and *Believe or Not* it was posted. I posted a comment to his
Super-Duper LRH Ass-Kiss Fest “An Ode to L Ron Hubbard”.

……You see I think, by posting a comment way late in the the life of the Blog entry, Marky-Mart might consider it a “forfeit” comment… meaning very few (public and/or in the Co$) will actually read it, and he can also say that he “DOE’S NOT CENSURE HIS BLOG”.. “see look at what johnny d says!!!” riiiiiighttt??
Here it is and strait to the point…..If ANY and I mean ANY one has a clue (besides my feeble attempt) why he let that comment slip by, I would love to Know!!

I can’t imagine why Marty censored this one. It was a response to http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2011/04/09/restoration-of-tech-service-facsimiles/which included the ‘success story’ of a new client, Kay Proctor. I merely sought to congratulate Marty on this success, as follows:
“Hey Marty. Jackpot! Who said you and Mike were shit at fishing? You’ve landed a nice juicy one there. Have you scoped out her accounts yet? I bet there’ll still be a few hundred thousand they didn’t manage to reg out of her. If not she can get a mortgage. D’you think those outpoints with her son might get worse when he realises you’ve got his inheritance?”

Thanks for the reply. I might argue that psychotherapy, as advanced by Karen Horney, does have a practical application but it might be the wrong crowd here for that.🙂

But really, a religious philosophy doesn’t need scientific proof. You have to believe something — even non-belief is a belief — so if something appears to be consistent with the world around and helps you see your place in it, go for it.

The issue with the lack of scientific proof within Hubbard’s writings is that it contains so many claims of Scientific proof. It begs the question, why is he making this claim?

Digging further, you find these other claims with regards to his military service and education that appear to be untrue as well. Finally, you have his claim that he didn’t need to make money from Scientology because he had already made millions as a writer, which if you know anything about the pulp business is not really credible.

And this is where his character becomes relevant. If he was exaggerating in order to sell Dianetics / Scientology, where else is he doing this?

I fully appreciate that people have found benefit from the techniques, but likewise many have not. It’s difficult to assess this anecdotally, though there is an interesting “exit survey” going on here:

So it seems to me that an attempt to look at the techniques in a rigorous manner is a useful exercise for those trying to continue Scientology as a movement and is necessary if it has any chance of gaining traction with society as a whole. Either that or quietly excise many of the claims from the texts and adopt something like the official CoS disclaimer.

Obviously people are free to ignore this as they see fit.

Regards

—–

LDW,

Thanks for the reply. For the record, I do try to ask questions.

For instance, what happens when an auditor tries something and finds it isn’t good for them? It is clear that many people have found aspects of Scientology did not work for them. How does this interact with, and forgive my imperfect understanding, the notion that failures are caused by missed O/Ws? What’s the interaction between the above statement and KSW? Can an auditor try their own thing if they don’t find something is good for them?

With Marty posting a video of some $cifags bothering him at his house, I posted this:

Must bring back quite a few memories eh Marty? Remember in the not quite so distant past when YOU did this stuff to people? Think back about how you did this to SO MANY people happily in the name of your church? Why would you prosecute these people for doing the EXACT same thing you did for years?

It is awaiting moderation, but I am pretty sure that it will be deleted!
(They even had “SQUIRREL BUSTER” T-shirts on with Marty’s pic on them!!!!! And I thought the LULZ was over!!!!!!

Hi Marty
Have you had the chance to read the latest installment of Jesse Prince’s blog, http://princejesse53.blogspot.com/2011/04/finale-here-it-is-for-you-now.html ?
Is the account he gives of how you and Mike used Bob Minton and Stacy Brooks to help close down the legislation against CoS accurate in your view? (“Anyway, Stacy Brooks, Mike Rinder, Bob Minton, Marty Rathbun, Arnie Lerma, Patrick Jost and a host of attorneys for all concerned set about the task of settling all of Scientology’s legal cases one way or the other. They contacted as many people as they could on Scientology’s behalf.”)
It’d be good to get your side of the story too.

I thought this was a fair question, Marty obviously did not, since he censored this comment. I suspected he would not allow it through, so I took a copy:-

There was once a time when as an Independent or as a critic or some other perceived enemy of the church you would have been very unlucky to have had DM point M. Rathbun or M. Rinder in your direction. They were very good at their jobs.

Marty and Mike have since left the CoS, and that is great news for everybody all round, and very bad news for DM.

Whilst both have suffered harassment since leaving, I hope they remember/admit/apologize/make amends for how much they once enthusiastically carried out their missions, against people such as Anon Sparrow.

I would like to ask you both if you feel the harassment you have received since leaving is less than, equal to, or greater than the sum total of misery you inflicted at the direction of DM.

There are a lot of people thinking this same question, and I think it’s a valid and fair one to ask.

“For anyone interpreting this as an invitation for people to witch hunt and willy-nilly call people plants and trolls, please read it again. It is not. You rarely see me engage in that”

You’re joking, right? Marty, if I had a dollar for every person you called an OSA spy or a friend of Miscavige or something like that, I could buy the Church and shut it down myself. You’re full of crap. And I don’t know why I’m posting this since you’ll probably just delete it anyway.

Immediately after your post I posted about how M&M both accuse me of being DM, OSA, etc…..he deleted it of course. I am beginning to think that maybe Marty is retarded or somehow developmentally disabled.

What do you know!! No sooner did I put my comment up here, than it appeared on Marty’s site, complete with a sheep to curse me out! Coincidence? I think not!

We’ll see if my follow up goes live:

Anonymous Blue | May 15, 2011 at 2:21 am | Reply
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
I love it! No sooner do I post my comment to Caliwog’s blog than it goes live here! Good for you, Marty. Anyway, you should be able to expose LOTS of OSA spies, since you and Mike know better than anyone who they are. But mostly you just label people as OSA spies, declare yourself right,and chalk up the stats. I’ve seen you accuse lots of people of being OSA spies who are simply Anonymous folk who don’t believe in any brand of Scientology, yours or the Church’s. Anyway, keep believing your own bullshit, Marty. LRH did and he died a rich and powerful man.

Not going to post the last message I wrote in reply, eh, Marty? Fucking coward. Don’t worry, it’s on Caliwog’s blog for the world to see! Doesn’t matter, Jesse Prince has already written the truth, Marty. You and Mike should be able to out EVERY OSA spy. But you won’t, because then you risk your own neck. The Anonymous opinion is right, you are the same thug you were when you were Davie’s assistant. If you can’t sell to them, step on them.

I posted this over at Marty’s in response to Marty’s and Steve Halls new found paranoia in relation to who is OSA and Miscavige’s friends and who is not. It’s awaiting moderation, but we’ll see if it gets posted:

Steve, You and I worked together at Gold for quite some time and shared some great times together. Even when I became the MAA for PDO, when several staff in RTC were trying to get me to enforce that you stay disconnected from your mom, I refused to go that route with them and instead communicated with you on how we could come up with a solution to getting a proper handling done. Do you remember that? I wasn’t the most popular MAA (in the eyes of senior officers) by any means because I was always full of disagreements with the way RTC would control and manipulate the MAA’s and the handlings that were being done around the base.

This might be one of the reasons DM decided to take me off of the TTC, Qual and Department 3 lines. I was not a bullshitter. I was accused of being out FO 38 every time I opened my mouth. That Midget, without any prior ethics gradient or Comm Ev decided to make me and a couple of others the subject of an all-base briefing to paint us as being SPs on the Tech lines of the the base and all we wanted to do was become good Auditors and get the staff up the Bridge. I wore a Scarlet Letter from that day forward. I guess my own viewpoint and attitude saved me from being at that base another day longer eventually. I realized that Miscavige was disgusted with all of the staff in Qual and those on Tech lines at the base. Seemed like we were his number one enemies at that time. Actually, number one enemy was the Cine crew, and then us.

I’d like to make something clear though about your assumption that people are either OSA or friends of Miscavige if they demonstrate certain behaviors. Me, yes, I can’t stand Miscavige and would like to see that POS behind bars. My beef with Miscavige is especially personal. I’ve contributed for nearly a decade now to expose the shit I witnessed and knew about at the base and by DM, even things I was involved in that I felt ashamed of.

However, after my escape from the base, and finding the internet and other people who had been major players in Scientology history, I was able to decompress and discover the real truth about L. Ron Hubbard. Hubbard’s real life was nothing like the Church would have you believe. All of the fabrications made up to make him look like a freakin’ God when the fact of the matter was that he was just like any of us, but with his own agendas to make money, and more money. I won’t go into all of that here, but, as you and Marty would have it, I’m a friend of David Miscavige or OSA because of my point of view about L. Ron Hubbard, which is actually based on real-world documentation and not CoS PR lies about the man.

In reality, I’m just a guy who wants to see the abuses gone, and people move on with their lives. I have no intention of saving anything with Scientology, but if someone wants to believe what LRH said, and wants to audit and apply Tech in their lives, so be it. As long as the Machine of Scientology is there, the Organization that is Scientology, I will be against it. As a Machine, it’s a dangerous Cult.

I’d hate to see the Independent movement move in the direction of being just another Scientology Org money making machine, KRs, GOs, OSAs, RPFs, and all.

If the Independents are really about just applying Standard Tech, then what’s stopping you guys from doing it? I really don’t see how DM’s dumb ass Squirrel Buster Goon Squad is anything but a 3 Stooges side show.

After I got out, I had OSA agents following my ass around all over the place. I lived in LA, so it’s not like they had far to go. They also got me fired from my job that Kirsten Kaetano showed up at because I had been writing anonymously about shit that was happening at Int on the internet. They tried desperately to somehow get me roped in to the HGB or big blue to get me on the cans. I never allowed that and finally ended up calling the police and other authorities. I’ve been left alone for the most part since then. Maybe it’s because I no longer have any sort of Koolaid in my veins and just don’t care about what happens to Scientology in the long run.

Does my point of view still make me OSA or a friend of Miscavige? Don’t make this a black and white issue like CoS does. There are many shades of grey. The old saying goes, “Opinions are like a**holes, everybody’s got one.”

I suggest sticking to Standard Tech and exposing real crimes. By barking at people in your new movement as being OSA spies, it’s starting to make your groups look a little paranoid. And nobody really wants any part of that. I think most of the people here just want to be able to get auditing and practice the Scientology that they feel helps themselves and others. I have no problem with that, as long as it’s not the harmful by products of Scientology that have been formulated and demonstrated over the years.

MY post about Marty’s OSA crap got deleted as well. Caught him in an outright LIE and he had NO CHOICE BUT TO DELETE IT or his syncophants might have STARTED THINKING ON THEIR OWN. He claims to know who is OSA etc, but can’t tell his ass from apple butter. Betcha he does better editing on his blog from now on, he has typed so much bullshit now that he is starting to contradict himself BAD (like ElRon).

Marty, you are just going to have to accept that this lady is not going to be a source of income for you. Sorry, better luck next time. (From William, the non-OSA, non DM, never even been in an org guy that you like to call DM).

Darling Carol,
I believe Mr.Johnson to be credible, and he, I believe is also way up yonder on the tone scale!!! Its been my observation that those tone-fully acute members of the world outside $cientology – in all of it’s forms – to be much more aware than the members of this blog would care to admit.(just say’in)

The members (and i say ‘members’ for lack of a more logical terminology, something that perhaps would suggest an overall allegiance to a LEADER *DM*or a figure head *LRH*, because that is precisely what is happening here) seem to believe that most (really not trying to be general just trying to make my point) people that criticize and or “natter” (you’alls word not mine) about Marty,Mike and any other Indy are somehow connected to the Insane World of the Asthmatic Mumbling and Stuttering (no offense to folks that stutter) SUPPRESSIVE PERSON Mr. douche-bag David Miscavige. You see I HATE the douche-bag, he is a despicable human… (my God will see to it that he enjoys the appropriate justice)
Now, a few points, and please hear me out because this is how MANY……I mean a shit-loads of people outside of *scientology in general* feel. This is how we feel _we_ are thought of by those in the “church” and by many in the “INDY MOVEMENT”
Number One: those that do not subscribe to -Hubaards thoughts and writings- are more or less “down tone” or PTS-SP or a down right SP.
Number Two: those that do not subscribe to -Hubaards thoughts and writings- will NEVER become anything more than a “meat-body” that will die on the vine like so much “gobbly-gook”.
Number Three: those that do not subscribe to -Hubaards thoughts and writings- will NEVER have the joy of understanding the lifetimes of “TECH” and all of the -*+( HELP )+*- ……..I cannot tell you how FUCKING sick I am of hearing how $cientology -HELPS- !!!
fuck you, it helps NO ONE.. ………………MY Opinion folks, MY OPINION !!!
I would like to see demonstrated FACTS, ( we all understand what FACTS are don’t we??) to ( please SHOW ME. ITS OK MARTY, SHOW ME OTVII POWERS) convince me and the REST of the public that these scientology AND dienetec procedures actually produce the RESULTS old L Ron Hubbard said they would!!!!!
So in conclusion, I (not we Marty, I hate DM, you know that. I have never been a practicing member of your “church” or have I ever worked for the Despicable Warlord ) am not a member of OSA (you know i still don’t know what that acronym stands for) ………….chuckle on that one bro’..

But, I just have to let ALL my buds know that..
“tHEORACLE”, my darling “sAM”, “wATCHINGeYES”, “gRASSHOPPER”, cAT dADDY
tONY dEpHILLIPS” cRASHINGUPWARDS”, dENNIS”, mIKE AND mARTY”,”Ottocscotto”, “jOEHOWARD”, “CatBirdSeat”, “lUNAMOTH”,
“fELLOW tRAVLER”, “jUST mE”, “bINGO”, And on and on and on it goes………..that I have the greatest of MASSIVE respect for you and what has brought you through the INSANE ritual that is the “hopeless death-trap of $cientology”!!!
Good luck to you all!!! and to all of you that still believe THE ONLY hope is through the “gospel according to L Ron”
Please all of you in the Indy Movement, this is the basis of OUR acrimony, its quite simple, yet poses many problems for all interested parties.

It is not about Faith.
It is not about Dogma.
It is not about Religion.
It is not about God, or Xenu, or anyone’s right to believe in them!
This is about a criminal organization’s ability to trample on human rights for a profit, an obscene, tax free profit.

Okay-doke……
dedicated to my partners in the down-fall of the organized church and the “not so ” organized church of $cientology!!
that would be mr.caliwog, and my friend, anonsparow, these two ja-mokes work harder than anyone I know to
dissolve the MONSTER CRIME SYNDICATE known as the CHURCH OF $CIENTOLOGY !!!!

“Marty, Marty, Marty. Those first three ‘paragraphs’ were incoherent gibberish that only you could understand. If you honestly wish to pursue a career as a writer, you should consider furthering your education in regards to grammar and sentence structure past the 6th grade level! Just out of curiosity, how many of your ‘followers’ actually finished college, or high school for that matter? You may be able to ‘thrill’ them with each post, but out here in the ‘Wog’ world, it takes more than being a card-carrying cult member to sell books!”

Hold on, Marty, the Church was doing this same sort of thing to Mark Rathbun back in 1999. You and Mike were in charge then, why didn’t you do anything to stop it? Why are you surprised that it’s happening now?

L: I heard from another operative, and we don’t know if this was true, that he was asked to obtain illegal medical records on Charlie O’Rielly, to discredit Charlie O’Rielly, saying he was in a mental hospital or a drug rehab program, to discredit him.
J: He could have been asked to do that.
L: You have no knowledge.
J: That would be something that Marty would have pulled him to the side and spoken to him.
L: Is Marty the person who generally – Who runs most of the dirtiest operations?
J: Marty.
L: Marty Rathbun is the guy, and then he passes the data on to –
J: He has little clones, like Lynn Farney is just one of them. He was like the guy doing the dirtiest work. And Ben Shaw. He and Ben Shaw were doing the dirtiest work.
L: Besides Lynn Farney, Ben Shaw – .
J: Gary Clinger.
L: Gary Clinger, Marty Rathbun, who else is most involved in the criminal side of Scientology?
J: David Miscavige? L. David Miscavige. J. Lyman Spurlack on the corporate level. He is so dirty. L. When you say corporately, he’s dirty, specifically what does he do that’s illegal?
J: Tax, and how corporate’s set up, undated resignations before you start. Just the shit thing, like the corporate integrity, hiding that. He is the one who has done that all along.
L: Scientology swears that they stopped undated letters of resignation at the time of the GO, at the time of Mary Sue Hubbard being kicked out, that was the old bad guys were doing that.
big hello from Croatia.

J: Every single one of church of Scientology. Everyone that I know who was on the board signed undated resignations. David Miscavige even told me that Mark Yeager signed one.
L: Mary Yeager signed one? Do you think Marty Rathbun and David Spurlock have signed undated.
J: Yes, I think, I haven’t seen. But I know it was a standard practice, everyone was required to.
L: Every..
J: Every board member is required to sign undated resignations.
L: Let’s keep talking. Anything about Peterson. The day he died he had an argument, was it a heated argument? Was it an intense argument?
J: I was there, but you know insistent Scientologists can behave, “You really need to do this”. I know Marty was really on John Peterson.
L: Would it be fair to say they were trying to force him into auditing?
J: Yes it would be fair
L: Would it be fair to say that.
J: He had refused, and that was it. A week had gone by.
L: He died after this argument which he refused.
J: Less than 24 hours, had a heart attack. They laughed about it, they thought it was the biggest funny thing.
L: Who laughed?
J: David Miscavige, Lyman Spurlock, Norman Starkey, Marty Rathbun, because he was telling us, Vicky was laughing about it. He said, the damn fag had a heart attack, he should have got his auditing.
L: So you’re saying that the man that they used for years to funnel money to commit illegal acts, and had been loyal to them, as their attorney, died, and in that room after he had died there was laughter.
J: At home.
L: At his home they were laughing?
J: No, he died at his home. Later in the conference room where we were at all the services, Mark Jaegar.

you should change name of this thread on – Censored by Mike – cause Mike is admin……
Marty dont have time for that-he is producing that reality tv show with some SB as guest actors…..
sometimes Michael F. and Karen J. ,or M.H. or who ever is willing to come as cameo……

as I told you that SBs will be gone in two months,as I told you that you must start to explain some things,I am telling you now-dont do that……dont go on that side…..
most of people ,that sometimes stand by your side are not there couse of LRH or you-they are there to put DM/his crimes down!!! so keep on posting about his crimes!!!!! I think it is a BIG book…
but I never know any blind or deaf $ci……We dont have problem with you believe or “know” what works,but problem is that you still write KR ,but this time you are blogging….grow up Marty,realise that it is stupid to constantly blame others for problems in your life-and your problem is that LRH lied and $ci dont work!!! I hope that you find happines and true love ,once in your life…..lots of love from Croatia-small part of LRHs Bulgravia….
P.S. dont block me again,please….I remember you writing about ,how “they” block comments on fake marty blogs-but last year YOU ARE DOING SAME (and your admin). You must understand that there are some of us who ask “them” for truth about you,and we ask you about their truth…..and this is how we make our opinion……wish you good luck in finding constant happines in your and your wifes life….

In regards to Martys latest post decrying Obama and the WH response to the petition.

Marty don’t you find it ironic that you supported and gave your undying allegiance to DM for 25 years and now you are decrying him as an evil dictator. 5 years ago you worked as volunteer for the Obama campaign and now you are decrying his “corrupt” administration. Does this, even for a moment, make you consider you may not be the best decision maker? Maybe even prone to making terrible mistake when it comes to leaders to follow? Think maybe the biggest mistake of all could have been your first choice to follow LRH?

sorry-that one WAS LET IN !!!!!
maybe if all of my next posts ,I first put here-then they will be allowed….
so here is next one…
koki | March 8, 2012 at 6:26 pm | Reply
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SpecialFrog | April 19, 2012 at 3:24 pm | Reply
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Altruistic in intent or not, what is the basis for your assertion that Narconon has done / does “some spectacular work in handling drug addiction”?

The current 70% success rate it claims is demonstrably false and there is also documented evidence that the Purification Rundown can be harmful to people with impaired liver function (like many drug addicts).

I’m sure some people have gotten off drugs under the Narconon program, but is there evidence that its success rate is higher than other programs or even than the rate of “spontaneous remission” / self treatment?

Thanks for this. I posted a few comments and none of them were approved. I googled his name and censor and found a lot of people complaining about the same thing. I’m disappointed in him and feel kind of sad. I was really happy to see him and the other top level Scientologists who left the church speaking out about the same things I had issues with. It made me feel better and not alone in my opinions. Now I can’t help but have a different view of him. My censored comments, one of them was agreeing with someone who said that when he just replies to questions with “It’s in my new book for sale on amazon” it makes it look like he’s just trying to sell his book. I saw him do this over and over. Someone would ask a question and he wouldn’t even answer it a little bit, all he would say is to go buy his book. He would pimp out his book multiple times in the same post, sometimes in the same paragraph! So anyway, this person just told him it makes it look like he’s just trying to sell his book when he does that but also commended him on what he’s doing, etc. and this person had the nerve to call that person a troll and tell him to get off his dead ass and fucking do something. He was really rude. So I agreed with the original person, then told the other person who was rude that he was being completely out of line and that person wasn’t a troll. I also replied to Marty and told him it does make it look like he’s just trying to sell the book when he does that. All of the comments were censored. A comment I wrote asking why they were censored was also censored. I’ve given up commenting there. I think it’s extremely scary and hypocritical that he censors negative information about him or any criticisms. That’s what the church does and that’s one of the big issues I have with them, and that’s an issue that Marty has with them too so what a hypocrite to do it himself. He’s exactly like them, he’s trying to play up this victim role, this saint role who is now the leader of the Independent Scientology movement. I thought before he saw all the things I saw and disagreed with them but now I just feel like he is jealous of DM and wants to be the leader. That’s what the church said, I remember. He used to physically assault people too, but then when he leaves, he criticizes DM for doing it? YOU DID IT TOO, MARTY. WHY? You’re no better than DM so you don’t exactly have a right to criticize him for that. Leave that to other people who would never assault someone. He is all over the press giving interviews to anyone he can about Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes. He’s like Dr. Drew or Dr. Phil, such an opportunist. He’s pimping out his book as much as he can on his blog. It’s disgusting. Now I don’t know what to do. Everything is a mess. The church is a mess and the independent Scientology movement is a mess. Why can’t people just be good people? It feels like everyone gets corrupted by money, power, etc. I’m sick of it.

I immediately started noticing the censorship that Mark Rathbun practices on his website. I haven’t saved by responses or comments that he censored because I didn’t realize how “Love Ron, Hate Dave” his orientation is when I started posting. But the majority of my comments have been censored.

I still think that he’s done something courageous, as have all of the Scientologists who spent years and countless dollars to be manipulated into a state of enslavement. But clearly he’s still an addict in the throes of looking for a way to keep getting the high he got from his involvement.

What is it specifically that he’s chasing, I wonder? To be the Martin Luther of Scientology? It’s still drinking-the-koolaid-by-any-other-name.

I’m starting to see why there may not be a class action suit initiated by Mark Rathbun or others who were entrenched at management levels before they left. They would have to admit to their own crimes. However, perhaps they could make a plea deal ahead of time.

Given the deep pockets of Scientology and the fact that they use free and grossly underpaid labor, it would take a legal team that had a lot of courage and could get lawyers to do pro bono work on the case.

Marty needs to simply do something that is more satisfying to his need to counsel (audit?) others to get the same satisfaction he found within Scientology, but do it without the “safety net” of Father Hubbard’s “Sickentology” (how’s that word-coinage for ya?).

In short, he should become a psychologist, or get a Marriage and Family Therapist license. Ha, ha, then by Scientology standards, he’d really be the ultimate traitor! He could have a specialty of deprogramming, if he could just finish his own deprogramming.

Or he could become a lawyer and take this effort to stop child abuse and other crimes into the courts of law. And then hope for stalwart judges who can take the heat of Scientology’s wrath!

I think Marty has a desperation to both redeem the decades that he spent in Scientology and to redeem his own evidently violent, illegal and morally reprehensible acts by continuing to believe in Father Hubbard’s meglomaniacal get-rich-quick scheme.

Finger-pointing at Miscavige while excusing Hubbard and the various thugs who empower them is like a magician’s slight-of-hand trick: the “independents” keep saying, “Look over here” so that people are distracted from noticing that they are creating the illusion of independence while still failing to benefit from their freedom. I think that they’re suffering from Stockholm syndrome.

But maybe he’s addicted some aspect of the good feelings he got long ago when he first entered the business (I can’t dignify it by calling it a religion, and the word “cult” has religious implications) and like the proverbial caged rat who got high once from cocaine after hitting the bar in his cage, he keeps thinking he can get that high back that undoubtedly vanished long, long ago. Unless he got high from committing crimes and laughing at the suffering of others.

You really have to park your common humanity at the door to be a Scientologist! I guess that’s part of the allure; that you’ll be so superior to others. How sadly opposite the eventual results are.

But for better or worse, we’re all connected. So all of the “independent Scientologists” (an oxymoron, if there ever was one) are just like the rest of us – knowing that we are more than physical and searching for the direct evidence of that in our own experience.

As Tim Gunn from Project Runway would say, “Make it work” and “Carry on”!

Appreciating the hard work you put into your website
and detailed information you present. It’s good to come across a blog every once in a while that isn’t the
same out of date rehashed material. Wonderful
read! I’ve saved your site and I’m including your RSS feeds to
my Google account.

This conversation was started when a poster described the infamous “musical chairs” ordeal designed by Miscavige to punish his “parishioners” for some deficiency in their performance:

“Originally Posted by Vinaire
Scientology wasn’t like this always. What you are looking at is BLACK SCIENTOLOGY.”

And the response:

“It was like that in my pre-DM days. It was just as nutty, just as callous.

I agree that it doesn’t have to be like that, but it does not have a good track history. Have you talked to ex-scns, like I have, who watched LRH go batty at St Hill? Talked to people who left in the early-mid sixties because of LRH’s pre-flagship abuse? I have.

In order to fully understand, grok and as-is the current situation, we must view the whole thing exactly and honestly.

I truly hope you create a golden version of white-scientology. I would even like to help, but you can’t close your eyes and postulate it. You have to recognise what elements of Hubbard’s philosphy and technology gave birth to the black side.

You have to spot what caused LRH to abuse and degrade. What caused DM to do the same.”

With the poster’s (his name is Lionheart) quote at the bottom of his comment:

“There is a Reality which is Indivisible, One, Alone, the Source and Being of all; not a thing, nor even a mind, but pure Spirit or clear Consciousness; and we are That and nothing but That, for That is our true Nature; and the only way to find It is to look steadily within, where are to be found utmost peace, unfading joy, and eternal life itself.” (Douglas Harding)

Marty, you too, and many of the ex- or independent Scientologists are lionhearts too. Have the courage to admit that Hubbard is indeed the source, of the dysfunction, delusions, exploitation, ruthlessness and greed that plagues the business today.

Keep whatever techniques you like. Give them new names, as Hubbard did. Borrow freely, as he did. But above all, be honest and compassionate.
Miscavige and Hubbard are two sides of the same coin: megalomania.

In fact, I’m not waiting to see if this is censored. I have every confidence that it will be:

Where, oh where is the support for Jenna Miscavige Hill’s upcoming autobiography (HarperCollins Publishers imprint William Morrow) “Beyond Belief: My Secret Life inside Scientology and My Harrowing Escape.” on this site?

She co-founded Exscientologykids.com, for heaven’s sake. She’s the reviled Miscavige’s own niece. Her story may be unique or it may be a miserable repetition of the abuse to which adult Scientologists seem have had no compunction about subjecting their own and others’ children.

This is what the Bridge to Total Freedom lead to – child abuse. It’s very “clear”, isn’t it?

Is it because Mike and Marty were both involved in preventing her from communicating with her parents when they left?

Didn’t the revered Lafayette R.H. say,
“To be happy, one only must be able to confront, which is to say, experience, those things that are. Unhappiness is only this: the inability to confront that which is.”

How about confronting what you did to her and making amends? You are both courageous men – why not show it by publicly supporting her?

You can have a life truly free of Hubbard and Scientology. You don’t need to punish Miscavige, as overwhelming as that urge is. He has created his own suffering. Read accounts of people who experience “life reviews” during near death experiences if you are curious. See http://www.nderf.org for thousands of accounts.

By the same token, if you continue to attempt to lead people to Hubbard, you simply are taking them down the same dangerous path that came near to destroying your life and continues to victimize you with his “fair game policy”, which of course is the opposite – an unfair game. His legacy is exactly what you are experiencing – unbridled vindictiveness, selfishness, paranoia and greed masquerading as justice.

My mind is boggled that you attempt to use Campbell’s work in support of Hubbard. His compulsive lying alone places him in the realm of a madman, to think that he could get away with scamming others for his own profit and the gratification of his megalomania without exposure.

Hubbard didn’t adhere to any of his stated standards other than fair game. The policy is necessary to prevent him from ever being answerable for his lies. The fact that you are attempting to position him as a mystic and not as a madman makes me question your own willingness to participate in rational analysis.

What will the consequence be to your ego and emotions if you let yourself know the truth about Hubbard’s destructiveness? That’s the question that Hubbard was desperate to avoid as evidenced in his terror of psychoanalysis other than his own brand as practiced by people with disciplined training who are subject to professional standards, supervision and controls. These are the very standards that scientology uses against specific psychiatrists in a futile effort to destroy the entire profession.

Please stop promoting Hubbard’s obviously damaging work. It’s doing you harm as well as doing others harm, which will become increasingly apparent, as if it isn’t obvious enough already, as the infighting over who is promoting the “true word” of your demi-god increases. You know that this is happening.

I don’t know if my recommendation that you look at Tom Campbell’s work when I first started posting, or attempting to post, here is what prompted your research or not. Regardless, as you continue to read, you may discover the fallacy of holding Hubbard up as a standard to inspire others.

I realize that you won’t permit this comment to be seen and am grateful that at least you may be directing others to study Campbell’s work. I’m not trying to assert myself as an authority in your life, but am urging you to take a thoughtful, realistic look at what is driving you to promote Hubbard as you try to destroy Miscavige.

Your own drive for power, fame and to justify the years of your life that you also devoted to hurting and manipulating others, which you still seem to regard as “helping” may be at the root of your attachment.

Ask yourself how you helped Connor and Bella Cruise to turn against their mother. These are two children who were given up by their biological mothers, then were conditioned to reject the only mother they knew and now have lost their stepmother. Two of these three loses are due to scientology’s disconnection policy, created by Hubbard.

There is a reckoning for all of us when we die. Ask yourself how you can make amends to those you’ve hurt. It will give you solace and joy.

At some point, each of us goes through a life review in which we have nowhere to hide and in which we understand truly, without the ability to lie, distort, intimidate, cry or manipulate our way out feeling the consequences of our actions. It’s better to put ourselves through that honest self scrutiny while we have time to make reparations, so we don’t carry that damage into other lifetimes.

It can be an exciting prospect, especially if you bring humor and compassion for your mistakes to the process.

Wishing you all the best, and with respect for you efforts to create positive change.

“You’re such a phoney. They were camped out on your street harassing you for like 9 months and that was fine, but them renting the house next door and spying on you with cameras is too troublesome for the neighbors and town? That makes no sense. You’re moving because you’re sick of being spied on and you’re trying to pretend it’s because you’re such a great guy who cares about other people. This is like when you would tell people over and over how you would never reveal what was in Tom Cruise’s auditing folders to show off what a great guy you are. And of course this will not get posted because everything is about showing off what a great guy you are and trying to be the leader of this Independent Scientology movement. You’ll censor it just like the church censors. You’re no better than them. “

Comment censorship is rife in Scientology! But not only Scientology. For example Huff post heavy censors their comments by passively omitting comments (rather than explicitly taking a red pen to them). I went round and round with the huff post comment moderators on this issue until I finally gave up and posted my censored comments on the censoredcomments blog. I haven’t found a site discussing Scientology that doesn’t censor draconically.

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