How did your rewire job go, Scott? I also own a 4400 (1972). It has a birds nest of wires hanging from everywhere and I too want to rewire.

The first thing I need to do is get the ignition switch to shut off the engine so I don't have to pull the battery cable off to kill the engine.

JMOR, can you help with this? I can take pictures if that will help.

Thank you!
James

That is a maybe, because I don't know & would need to know if 4400 is same wiring as 2000, 3000, 4000?????????

I don't believe so by looking through the downloaded manual I bought. It does mention that the manual is for 2000,3000,4000,and 5000 models but it also seperates the 3500, 4500, and 5500 industrial for some things. From the looks of the manual generally they are the same but vary depending on a few different things such as origin of the tractors destination.

I looked at the tractor again last night and everything looks ike it is in the correct place as far as terminals and their placment. I took the starter switch out last night again and didn't see anything that looked out of line. I guess after looking over the schematic for the 4400 that I have, and a small schematic for the ignition system in my manual, I am wondering if there could be a broken wire that I can't see.

Do you, or anyone else, know what happens when the key switch goes to the "Off" position? Does it go to ground like small engines, or does it cut voltage to the coil maybe??? If I can figure out what is suppose to happen it may help me troubleshoot.

Thank you!
James

Do you think I should start a different thread with a different title to attract some electricians for their opinions?

How did your rewire job go, Scott? I also own a 4400 (1972). It has a birds nest of wires hanging from everywhere and I too want to rewire.

The first thing I need to do is get the ignition switch to shut off the engine so I don't have to pull the battery cable off to kill the engine.

JMOR, can you help with this? I can take pictures if that will help.

Thank you!
James

That is a maybe, because I don't know & would need to know if 4400 is same wiring as 2000, 3000, 4000?????????

I don't believe so by looking through the downloaded manual I bought. It does mention that the manual is for 2000,3000,4000,and 5000 models but it also seperates the 3500, 4500, and 5500 industrial for some things. From the looks of the manual generally they are the same but vary depending on a few different things such as origin of the tractors destination.

I looked at the tractor again last night and everything looks ike it is in the correct place as far as terminals and their placment. I took the starter switch out last night again and didn't see anything that looked out of line. I guess after looking over the schematic for the 4400 that I have, and a small schematic for the ignition system in my manual, I am wondering if there could be a broken wire that I can't see.

Do you, or anyone else, know what happens when the key switch goes to the "Off" position? Does it go to ground like small engines, or does it cut voltage to the coil maybe??? If I can figure out what is suppose to happen it may help me troubleshoot.

Thank you!
James

Do you think I should start a different thread with a different title to attract some electricians for their opinions?

3 terminals on ignition switch of 4000 are 1)battery power in, 2)power out to starter safety switch, 3)power out to brake sw, ign coil, & instruments. Does not ground like lawnmower.

How did your rewire job go, Scott? I also own a 4400 (1972). It has a birds nest of wires hanging from everywhere and I too want to rewire.

The first thing I need to do is get the ignition switch to shut off the engine so I don't have to pull the battery cable off to kill the engine.

JMOR, can you help with this? I can take pictures if that will help.

Thank you!
James

That is a maybe, because I don't know & would need to know if 4400 is same wiring as 2000, 3000, 4000?????????

I don't believe so by looking through the downloaded manual I bought. It does mention that the manual is for 2000,3000,4000,and 5000 models but it also seperates the 3500, 4500, and 5500 industrial for some things. From the looks of the manual generally they are the same but vary depending on a few different things such as origin of the tractors destination.

I looked at the tractor again last night and everything looks ike it is in the correct place as far as terminals and their placment. I took the starter switch out last night again and didn't see anything that looked out of line. I guess after looking over the schematic for the 4400 that I have, and a small schematic for the ignition system in my manual, I am wondering if there could be a broken wire that I can't see.

Do you, or anyone else, know what happens when the key switch goes to the "Off" position? Does it go to ground like small engines, or does it cut voltage to the coil maybe??? If I can figure out what is suppose to happen it may help me troubleshoot.

Thank you!
James

Do you think I should start a different thread with a different title to attract some electricians for their opinions?

3 terminals on ignition switch of 4000 are 1)battery power in, 2)power out to starter safety switch, 3)power out to brake sw, ign coil, & instruments. Does not ground like lawnmower.

That makes sense as I could not locate a wire to ground from the switch other than the switch body against the frame of the panel itself.

This problem all started when I first bought the tractor. I replaced the solenoid when I thought it was bad and after that I had to pull the + battery cable to kill power to the ignition system, and if reattached will drain the battery. I am pretty sure i placed one of the wires on the wrong terminal but I am not sure which one.

I'll try to get the wire placement on the solenoid and see if you can tellme which if something is placed wrong.

How did your rewire job go, Scott? I also own a 4400 (1972). It has a birds nest of wires hanging from everywhere and I too want to rewire.

The first thing I need to do is get the ignition switch to shut off the engine so I don't have to pull the battery cable off to kill the engine.

JMOR, can you help with this? I can take pictures if that will help.

Thank you!
James

That is a maybe, because I don't know & would need to know if 4400 is same wiring as 2000, 3000, 4000?????????

I don't believe so by looking through the downloaded manual I bought. It does mention that the manual is for 2000,3000,4000,and 5000 models but it also seperates the 3500, 4500, and 5500 industrial for some things. From the looks of the manual generally they are the same but vary depending on a few different things such as origin of the tractors destination.

I looked at the tractor again last night and everything looks ike it is in the correct place as far as terminals and their placment. I took the starter switch out last night again and didn't see anything that looked out of line. I guess after looking over the schematic for the 4400 that I have, and a small schematic for the ignition system in my manual, I am wondering if there could be a broken wire that I can't see.

Do you, or anyone else, know what happens when the key switch goes to the "Off" position? Does it go to ground like small engines, or does it cut voltage to the coil maybe??? If I can figure out what is suppose to happen it may help me troubleshoot.

Thank you!
James

Do you think I should start a different thread with a different title to attract some electricians for their opinions?

3 terminals on ignition switch of 4000 are 1)battery power in, 2)power out to starter safety switch, 3)power out to brake sw, ign coil, & instruments. Does not ground like lawnmower.

That makes sense as I could not locate a wire to ground from the switch other than the switch body against the frame of the panel itself.

This problem all started when I first bought the tractor. I replaced the solenoid when I thought it was bad and after that I had to pull the + battery cable to kill power to the ignition system, and if reattached will drain the battery. I am pretty sure i placed one of the wires on the wrong terminal but I am not sure which one.

I'll try to get the wire placement on the solenoid and see if you can tellme which if something is placed wrong.

Thanks for your help thus far!
James

Does your solenoid have one or two small terminals? Not speaking of large battery cable terminals. How many small wires connect there?

Last edited by JMOR on Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

It has two posts for the coil and the two for the contacts. There are 1 wire each on the coil terminals and 3 on one of the large contact terminals, one of which is large cable from the battery and I believe one from the coil. Only one on the other big terminal and that is the large cable going to the starter.

I didn't get a chance to look last night, (kid activities) but should tonight and i can try to trace them all out.

(quoted from post at 07:53:48 09/19/12)
It has two posts for the coil and the two for the contacts. There are 1 wire each on the coil terminals and 3 on one of the large contact terminals, one of which is large cable from the battery and I believe one from the coil. Only one on the other big terminal and that is the large cable going to the starter.

I didn't get a chance to look last night, (kid activities) but should tonight and i can try to trace them all out.

Thanks for your help, JMOR!

Since I only have diagrams for 2000,3000,4000 and 4100,4600, etc. AND not for your 4400, "certainty" is a missing factor here. Sure would be nice if owner of 4400 diagram would pop up, but......
Given that, since you replaced the solenoid, you are almost certainly correct in that one of the wires got put back in the wrong place. The 4100 & 4600's used a ballast resistance between the key switch and the ignition coil AND used a terminal on the starter solenoid to bypass that resistance during starting........ I expect that the ign coil bypass wire is now connected to the battery terminal on the solenoid and NOT the start-bypass terminal, as it should be. Probably should be only one wire besides battery cable on that large solenoid terminal.

I'll know more tomorrow but there are for sure 3 wires on that one battery terminal. There is a ballast resistor on my 4400 also. I know one of the wires ends up in a loom but I should be able to tell you which ones go to the ing coil, solenoid coil, starter contacts, and ign switch tomorrow, possibly tonight if I get on a PC at home.

I appreciate your help!

James

Last edited by JWinnett on Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:48 am; edited 1 time in total

Ok, I dismantled the tractor last night to get to the wiring. What a mess!

There are 3 wires from the supply side of the solenoid; A red wire from the Ing. coil, a Brown wire from the "B" terminal of the Generator regulator, and the battery cable from the + side of the battery. The load side of the solenoid goes to the starter. There is a Red/White wire from the key switch to one side the coil on the solenoid and the other side of the coil is a yellow wire running to a light switch???.

There is also another Red wire from the Ing. coil to the ballast resistor and from the Ballast Resistor, a Brown and Red wire to the key switch.

As a side note the wiring on top of the gas tank must have been real hot at one time because most of the wires have been spliced with green wires. The Brown/Red wire is bare where it goes over the gas tank right now so I will need to replace that wire. There are also some wires that can be eliminated as they are spliced in making one long wire that could be half the length. A rewire is definitly going to follow getting the key switch to shut the tractor off.

Any help and advise is welcome and I appreciate it all!

Here is a drawing of what I found lastnight.

James

Last edited by JWinnett on Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:43 am; edited 1 time in total

(quoted from post at 08:32:21 09/20/12) Ok, I dismantled the tractor last night to get to the wiring. What a mess!

There are 3 wires from the supply side of the solenoid; A red wire from the Ing. coil, a Brown wire from the "B" terminal of the Generator regulator, and the battery cable from the + side of the battery. The load side of the solenoid goes to the starter. There is a Red/White wire from the key switch to one side the coil on the solenoid and the other side of the coil is a yellow wire running to a light switch???.

There is also another Red wire from the Ing. coil to the ballast resistor and from the Ballast Resistor, a Brown and Red wire to the key switch.

As a side note the wiring on top of the gas tank must have been real hot at one time because most of the wires have been spliced with green wires. The Brown/Red wire is bare where it goes over the gas tank right now so I will need to replace that wire. There are also some wires that can be eliminated as they are spliced in making one long wire that could be half the length. A rewire is definitly going to follow getting the key switch to shut the tractor off.

Hey, JMOR, I think that is what I need to do as well. I was on the phone with my preferred Ford tractor guy this AM and his son asked if when I replaced the solenoid, that I used a "truck" solenoid and not a "Tractor" solenoid. I am pretty sure, it's been a few years, that I got it from a auto parts store. He says this can also cause me to have problems with it not shutting off. I am going to switch the wires around this weekend and if this doesn't work I'll be changing out the solenoid with one recommended for the tractor, not a truck.

Good news it is, with a twist! I switched the wires and that was the problem, that worked for about 10 starts and then quit shutting off. I was doing some rewiring so I was slightly confused thinking I might have made a bad connection. I ended up replacing the starter relay as well, and upon first look at the tractor relay I could see that I had installed an automotive solenoid the first time. The tractor starts and shuts off every time now.

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