You think Detroit takes yet another DL? They may, but that's a situation that screams for trade up for the DB IMO. And I know you can't reasonably predict trades so it's hardly worth it. Just mentioning that would be a natural place for it if you're the Lions.

Yes, since they cut Vanden Bosch and might lose Avril. That might actually be their top priority. And Schwartz coached Ziggy at the Senior Bowl, rumor has it he's in love...

Still thisnk DL is a luxury for Lions and that DB a more pressing need. Not that I give a shit and not that you're probably right once Suh or Fairley kill somebody.

Considering the lack of consensus first-round picks, and what looks to be incredible depth, isn't trading down the smart move? 'Course, if everybody (except KC, naturally) is looking at the draft in that light, finding a trading partner might be as futile an exercise as chasing the proverbial wild goose.

pod2dawg wrote:Well then boyz, is it Damontre Moore, J.Jones, or Bark Mingo?

Can I go off the board and tepidly say Dionn Jordan over those three? My preference at this point on Tuesday would be:

Jordan, Mingo, Jones and then Moore.

No dead-nuts sure things. Hell, with a second rounder or trade back to pick one up, you might get great value with Datone Jones or Carradine.

I think Pod was going off the assumption I made that Jordan was going to Philly.

If there, he might indeed be the best option.

Ahh.... didn't take that into consideration. But if that's the case I guess I'd flip the coin over J Jones and Mingo while trying like hell to move back, recoup my 2nd and get a guy like Datone Jones deeper in the 1st.

Need someone to maybe fall in lust with one of the tackles that will likley be available and want to move up to grab them. But honestly, so much will happen between now and then that it's hard to even seriously speculate. A huge Geno Smith pro day would help. Another QB rising like crazy would help. The draft boards could look entirely different a month from now.

I think Geno is already climbing some boards with the 40 time....NFL coaches are talking him into being able to run the pistol, even if he's never shown a proclivity for it at any level.

Any combination of Jordan, Ansah, or Mingo would be great, with JJ just behind and Moore behind that. I don't doubt that Moore will have a pro day and show an improved 40 time, but he just doesn't seem to have that same freakish athleticism the other 3 have.

Every Milliner stat that makes him seem more attractive to the teams above him just helps the B's out; between him, Joeckel, Star, and Geno, the more players that AREN'T monster linebackers that can go in the top 6, the better.

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Not saying he's not. But the injury thing concerns me enough that I prefer to avoid it #6. Maybe its nothing. And maybe we hear more on that front in next few weeks. But it concerns me and IMO affects his value right now. Just like Moore falling flat in his Combine concerns me. Not that a specific numbed worried me in and of itself, but that he seemed unprepared to perform. That's why I qualified it as I did below.

jb wrote:

peeker643 wrote:

pod2dawg wrote:Well then boyz, is it Damontre Moore, J.Jones, or Bark Mingo?

Can I go off the board and tepidly say Dionn Jordan over those three? My preference at this point on Tuesday would be:

Jordan, Mingo, Jones and then Moore.

No dead-nuts sure things. Hell, with a second rounder or trade back to pick one up, you might get great value with Datone Jones or Carradine.

Wow, really?

Jones makes plays consistently and is all over the field. He's a football player. As far as actual productivity, JJ in on another level than any of those guys.

Says Kirwan: The Browns need a corner opposite Joe Hayden and Milliner emerged from the combine as the best CB.

Not sure who Joe "Hayden" is... I'm fine with Milliner, just still feel he's more of a "good solid player" than a "superstar", kind of like Mr. Hayden himself. Having 2 Joe Haydens wouldn't be an awful thing. But there's other guys I'd rather see them take.

Also, Kirwan's reason for Philly taking Geno: Nick Foles doesn't fit the Kelly offense and Michael Vick is a short term answer at best.

Hikohadon wrote:If JJ is the best player on the board, you take him, spinal thingy or no spinal thingy. Better to get 5 years of Ngata than 10 years of Wimbley (not the perfect example, but you get the picture).

Agreed. But the injury 'thingy' was enough to keep him from participating in the Combine.

Not at all the determining factor and the tape don't lie. But just disconcerting. Taking him (and, to be honest, taking anyone) doesn't guarantee you five years of anything. And cervical stenosis is more concerning than lumbar stenosis.

End of the day, if you get the assurances from the medical folks that this isn't a reason for huge concern and is as Pod describes it (it's not an uncommon issue in general and aging is a leading cause) then I'd be inclined to take him and cross your fingers.

But Jordan is intriguing. And Jones from UCLA is too. They're the future of the body types and athleticism that will dominate the game down the road. Everyone's gonna be looking for those TE-type bodies on the edges of defenses and therefore similar type athleticism out of OTs to combat the DEs and 3-4 OLBs.

If all your medical people state that the spinal thingy will almost definitely affect JJ, then you factor that in.

If your medical people are not in conjunction or they say that it "might" affect him but don't know, then you toss it aside as just another one of the 10,000 bad things that "might" happen to any player. IMHO...

Hikohadon wrote:If all your medical people state that the spinal thingy will almost definitely affect JJ, then you factor that in.

If your medical people are not in conjunction or they say that it "might" affect him but don't know, then you toss it aside as just another one of the 10,000 bad things that "might" happen to any player. IMHO...

peeker643 wrote:Not saying he's not. But the injury thing concerns me enough that I prefer to avoid it #6. Maybe its nothing. And maybe we hear more on that front in next few weeks. But it concerns me and IMO affects his value right now. Just like Moore falling flat in his Combine concerns me. Not that a specific numbed worried me in and of itself, but that he seemed unprepared to perform. That's why I qualified it as I did below.

jb wrote:

peeker643 wrote:

pod2dawg wrote:Well then boyz, is it Damontre Moore, J.Jones, or Bark Mingo?

Can I go off the board and tepidly say Dionn Jordan over those three? My preference at this point on Tuesday would be:

Jordan, Mingo, Jones and then Moore.

No dead-nuts sure things. Hell, with a second rounder or trade back to pick one up, you might get great value with Datone Jones or Carradine.

Wow, really?

Jones makes plays consistently and is all over the field. He's a football player. As far as actual productivity, JJ in on another level than any of those guys.

Understood now.

All I would add is that doesn't impact ranking. It simpply would mean he's off your board. So JJ is either # 1 on the list, or number none.

Make sense?

Thing I like is if we're really doing this hybridy-attacky-hopey-changie defense thing, you can move JJ around anywhere you want. Same can be said of Anseh.

peeker643 wrote:Not saying he's not. But the injury thing concerns me enough that I prefer to avoid it #6. Maybe its nothing. And maybe we hear more on that front in next few weeks. But it concerns me and IMO affects his value right now. Just like Moore falling flat in his Combine concerns me. Not that a specific numbed worried me in and of itself, but that he seemed unprepared to perform. That's why I qualified it as I did below.

jb wrote:

peeker643 wrote:

pod2dawg wrote:Well then boyz, is it Damontre Moore, J.Jones, or Bark Mingo?

Can I go off the board and tepidly say Dionn Jordan over those three? My preference at this point on Tuesday would be:

Jordan, Mingo, Jones and then Moore.

No dead-nuts sure things. Hell, with a second rounder or trade back to pick one up, you might get great value with Datone Jones or Carradine.

Wow, really?

Jones makes plays consistently and is all over the field. He's a football player. As far as actual productivity, JJ in on another level than any of those guys.

Understood now.

All I would add is that doesn't impact ranking. It simpply would mean he's off your board. So JJ is either # 1 on the list, or number none.

Make sense?

Thing I like is if we're really doing this hybridy-attacky-hopey-changie defense thing, you can move JJ around anywhere you want. Same can be said of Anseh.

For all intents and purposes I agree with ya. JJ would be the pick if injuries aren't issue. He'd also be the pick if injuries were still an issue if it meant he dropped to 20-30 and I had a selection there.

But yeah, pretty much as you laid it out.

Not sure you can't do with Jordan what you mention with JJ or Ansah. He's a freak as well. Quick, fast, big, strong.

BTW, this Geno Smith hype-machine could truly help the Browns. I think trade back options growing with Smith and with teams wanting one of the OTs.

Many people were impressed with Ziggy Ansah’s 4.56 40 yard dash at 271 pounds, and rightfully so. But they would have been more impressed if they knew Ansah didn’t even train for the event. Unlike probably every other player in attendance, Ansah kept going to class and never worked with an outside trainer to prepare for the combine. In fact, the 40 yard dash he ran at the combine was the first of his life, according to his agent Frank Bauer. It should be noted, however, that Ansah did run 100 meter dash and the 200 meters on the Brigham Young track team before he became a football player.

I know we are all thinking OLB for our #1, but the lastest mocks have Womack dropping to #10 or so. You gotta admit the thought of TRich running behind that beast of a line would put nightmares in the minds of opposing coaches. Especially if we could trade down and get him plus a 2nd.

bookelly wrote:I know we are all thinking OLB for our #1, but the lastest mocks have Womack dropping to #10 or so. You gotta admit the thought of TRich running behind that beast of a line would put nightmares in the minds of opposing coaches. Especially if we could trade down and get him plus a 2nd.

Did you read banner's quotes in his interview with the ABJ lst week? Readlly good 1st persone stuff; the no spin stuff reporters need to do more of.

he all but said no dunkashein on a G # 1.

Don;t believe it? Look at the interior OL of the Iggles. LOL. Wrecke dtheir team Banner's last 3 yaesr cheaping out there.

Hikohadon wrote:A Guard - even a really good Guard - makes minimal impact to this team. And JB's right, Banner said it wasn't in the cards. Was he lying? Maybe. But no way I put money on a Guard being taken at #6.

IMO a guard -- or two -- makes a HUGE impact on thsi team. Huge. Our guard play has blown dead donkey dick for 3 seasons or more. The interior pass rush on a QB whose pocket movement/awareness is not a strength is a masive downer like a Peeker dominated thread.

But I see FA maginal improvement and not us spending the 6th overall - even in the next Larry Little.

Hikohadon wrote:A Guard - even a really good Guard - makes minimal impact to this team. And JB's right, Banner said it wasn't in the cards. Was he lying? Maybe. But no way I put money on a Guard being taken at #6.

IMO a guard -- or two -- makes a HUGE impact on thsi team. Huge. Our guard play has blown dead donkey dick for 3 seasons or more. The interior pass rush on a QB whose pocket movement/awareness is not a strength is a masive downer like a Peeker dominated thread.

But I see FA maginal improvement and not us spending the 6th overall - even in the next Larry Little.

FWIW I'd seriously consider Womack were I GM.

I agree on the G comments and I really think their big pursuit this offseason is Vasquez. Makes a shitload of sense in terms of getting an experienced guy here and one whose strengths line up with Norv and Chud's philosophy.

I think if they're forced to go with Weeden they avoid Warmack for the simple reason they can't afford a break-in period for a G like they had with Schwartz at RT last season. First four games were rough.

Get Vasquez and you get a guy that understands the language of the offense, the offense itself, and who is ready to play from day one. If they overpay (and they will for anyone) I think Vasquez is a guy they overpay for.

peeker643 wrote:If they overpay (and they will for anyone) I think Vasquez is a guy they overpay for.

Tell you what Kimosabe. They are so far under the cap they can "overpay" for 3 - 4 meaningful starters. If Norv can get the Ginger Cringer up to speed and they shore up one OG and play greco at the other, Get a good OLB, ILB, and CB, talking 8/9 wins is not insanity.

Hikohadon wrote:A Guard - even a really good Guard - makes minimal impact to this team. And JB's right, Banner said it wasn't in the cards. Was he lying? Maybe. But no way I put money on a Guard being taken at #6.

IMO a guard -- or two -- makes a HUGE impact on thsi team. Huge. Our guard play has blown dead donkey dick for 3 seasons or more. The interior pass rush on a QB whose pocket movement/awareness is not a strength is a masive downer like a Peeker dominated thread.

But I see FA maginal improvement and not us spending the 6th overall - even in the next Larry Little.

FWIW I'd seriously consider Womack were I GM.

I will respectfully disagree with you. The difference between fielding a meh Guard versus a really good Guard doesn't have nearly the effect on the overall team that it would at several other positions. Cleveland already has an OL that a number of perennial playoff teams would love to have, yet the Browns still win 4 or 5 games every year.

Weeden's problem wasn't that he was getting too much pressure up the middle. And some of Richardson's failings were on Richardson and his owies.

I def agree that the position can be upgraded and it will help the team - but I would never choose Door # Top Ten Overall Pick to fix it.

I wouldn't hate picking Warmack at all since you can plug him in and know that position is good for the next 6-8 years, but, like I said, Warmack makes nowhere near the overall impact that a Von Miller or Aldon Smith type does.

peeker643 wrote:If they overpay (and they will for anyone) I think Vasquez is a guy they overpay for.

Tell you what Kimosabe. They are so far under the cap they can "overpay" for 3 - 4 meaningful starters. If Norv can get the Ginger Cringer up to speed and they shore up one OG and play greco at the other, Get a good OLB, ILB, and CB, talking 8/9 wins is not insanity.

so I hope they have the balls to overpay.

You really think I'm going to let some Free Agents take advantage of me? ME????

Honestly, guards are so far down the list of needs this team has it isn't even funny.

If you can get Vazquez or an impact guy for a REASONABLE price i'm all for it, but Pinkston looked decent before he got hurt (and he will almost def be back at full speed by the season) and Greco proved to be capable. Bring in a guy for depth and rotate him and Laovoaoaosoaoo as needed.

This team needs linebackers and DB's desperately, and could probably use a vet WR to split out with with Gordon > OG.

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Hikohadon wrote:A Guard - even a really good Guard - makes minimal impact to this team. And JB's right, Banner said it wasn't in the cards. Was he lying? Maybe. But no way I put money on a Guard being taken at #6.

IMO a guard -- or two -- makes a HUGE impact on thsi team. Huge. Our guard play has blown dead donkey dick for 3 seasons or more. The interior pass rush on a QB whose pocket movement/awareness is not a strength is a masive downer like a Peeker dominated thread.

But I see FA maginal improvement and not us spending the 6th overall - even in the next Larry Little.

FWIW I'd seriously consider Womack were I GM.

I will respectfully disagree with you. The difference between fielding a meh Guard versus a really good Guard doesn't have nearly the effect on the overall team that it would at several other positions. Cleveland already has an OL that a number of perennial playoff teams would love to have, yet the Browns still win 4 or 5 games every year.

Weeden's problem wasn't that he was getting too much pressure up the middle. And some of Richardson's failings were on Richardson and his owies.

I def agree that the position can be upgraded and it will help the team - but I would never choose Door # Top Ten Overall Pick to fix it.

I wouldn't hate picking Warmack at all since you can plug him in and know that position is good for the next 6-8 years, but, like I said, Warmack makes nowhere near the overall impact that a Von Miller or Aldon Smith type does.

Yahtzee.

The top 10 of this draft is loaded at the positions the Browns desperately need to fill. They can't afford to miss on a premium pass rusher, which they haven't had since the return, just to get the OL from being a top 7 unit to a top 3 unit.

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jb wrote:all I'm sayin' is this "need" thing has really worked out well for us over the years, eh?

Maybe we could do something insane like use the trillion dollars in cap room to sign a quality mid-career starter of need and actually use the draft to stay closer to BPA.

as far as prospect go a warmack is lights out on another level that a Dion Jordan.

Understood. It'd be nice to be set enough to go BPA if BPA was a Guard. But then they wouldn't be picking in the Top 10.

I get it. But we always take the quick fix for need. I don't think the Browns have gone ball-to-the-wall in FAgency since 1999, and then they missed tthe mark. I thought Phil did between 06 & 07, but mostly with vets past prime, although Joe J and 8 ball really made a huge difference. Had we drafted worth a damn with our super-scout GM we might have had something there.

They have the cap space and this is a REALLY GOOD FA market if there aren't a bunch of signings in the next several days. There are opportunities to do a lot more than sign this staff's Ted DC's and Willie McGinnest's. We have an owner and FO that espouses impatience. So far they haven't made a slew of jack-assed spiteful cuts. What Banner HAS said I acutually agree with: too many kids handed jobs; emphsis on player development and not W's. Shurmer alluded to that all season. If that means you bring in competition and attrition happens via competition rather than "that last dumb FO drafted these guys and we're so much smarter", that can be a good thing. Cutting Lavauo becasue he gets schooled and you signed Vasquez or drafted warmack is better than cutting him becsue you don't like him and draft a G in round 5 and hand him the job cause he's your guy.

Wiating. Watching. But objectively not horrified by any moves thus far. Even Lombardi is allegedly getting good marks for being thorough and job focussed ratherthan engaed in his BS.

We'll see some important things develop over the next month. If all we get are a bunch of ex-eagle and cardinal scrubs, new boss = old boss. If we actually sign 3 - 4 starters from other teams around the league in their 20's who were solid starters on solid when played (Keenan Lewis) then I'll be impressed. And it means we can stop reaching in the draft.

Cutting Lavauo becasue he gets schooled and you signed Vasquez or drafted warmack is better than cutting him becsue you don't like him and draft a G in round 5 and hand him the job cause he's your guy.

Agree, but picking up a solid replacement in FA and drafting a solid replacement at #6 overall are VASTLY different things.

Like I said, love Warmack, just not for this team. We keep drafting the Warmacks of the world, the Browns will be good again by 2017 (provided we re-sign everyone and no one gets old).

Hikohadon wrote:EJ Manuel is attending the draft, which clearly means he thinks he'll get picked 1st Round. Which he might, his stock is rising, he's probably the only QB in this draft that I'd be excited to get.

But don't know if I'd be excited if it was at #6 overall.

So... question... how do we feel about trading back to around, say, 20 or so and taking him? Assuming we recoup at least a 2nd for dropping down.

Rams would be the only team in that 20 range with multiple firsts and their own second. They may need to move if their hear is set on Tayvon Austin but 6 might be too high.

I still think Dolphins are a logical choice but is a guy like Manuel more palatable at 12 than 6? I mean, he is, but how much so?

I'd keep an eye on 49ers as well. They have their own pick at 31, the Chiefs 2nd rd pick (#2 in the round) their own 2nd rd (29th), the Panthers 3rd rounder (12th in the 3rd) and their own 3rd rounder (31st).

I read where they have five of first 95 picks and 13 overall and there's no way that team and roster is ingesting all those young rookies.

If he is the best QB prospect in the draft, then you take him at whatever pick you have.

I would never, ever, ever, ever plan around the best QB in the draft being available past 1st overall.

So moving back from 6 to take the best QB in the draft sounds insane.

On the other hand, any QB that will still be available by 15-20 is almost certainly a bad QB. Or one that the entire league is mis-evaluating. So in that case, I don't want to move back to take him because if he's still there, it means there is a reason he is still there.

Certainly with this FO I am not interested in entertaining the possibility that the Browns FO is better at evaluating a QB than the rest of the league.

bac5665 wrote:If he is the best QB prospect in the draft, then you take him at whatever pick you have.

I would never, ever, ever, ever plan around the best QB in the draft being available past 1st overall.

So moving back from 6 to take the best QB in the draft sounds insane.

On the other hand, any QB that will still be available by 15-20 is almost certainly a bad QB. Or one that the entire league is mis-evaluating. So in that case, I don't want to move back to take him because if he's still there, it means there is a reason he is still there.

Certainly with this FO I am not interested in entertaining the possibility that the Browns FO is better at evaluating a QB than the rest of the league.

Ridiculous.

Both Quinn and Weeden were available in that range and look how that....