Honor

Stratics Veteran

Now i knoow that lettting my pets kill to gain honor makes it tiake longer BUUUUUUTTT I have to kill 20 yes 2 0 Balarons to gain one blue dot of honor at follower about 40 minutes worth at least. for ONE dot of honor. Now again I know I am a gimp tamer but if i chose to use my HARD earnerd honor to assist my tames it costs me one whole dot of honor.

now i dont succede and must honor myself again bah now two dots. Over 1.5 hours fighting to get my honor back to knight?

Somthign seems a little out of whack here.

Espevcially considering any warrior doesnt use any honor points while using his / her honor to get 100 times damage to their targets?

Now i knoow that lettting my pets kill to gain honor makes it tiake longer BUUUUUUTTT I have to kill 20 yes 2 0 Balarons to gain one blue dot of honor at follower about 40 minutes worth at least. for ONE dot of honor. Now again I know I am a gimp tamer but if i chose to use my HARD earnerd honor to assist my tames it costs me one whole dot of honor.

now i dont succede and must honor myself again bah now two dots. Over 1.5 hours fighting to get my honor back to knight?

Somthign seems a little out of whack here.

Espevcially considering any warrior doesnt use any honor points while using his / her honor to get 100 times damage to their targets?

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If a warrior embraces his honor he uses a dot just like you do. Honor was never designed for tamers to begin with. It is currently a flaw in the system that tamers exploit to be able to tame animals without fear of taking damage. Everyone is all irate against bards supposedly using some exploit in other threads, Funny not one of those irate people have posted here about exploiting the honor system to tame animals. Animal taming is meant to be a challenge... Its meant that the animal be able to attack you... Using honor to tame therefore I submit is an exploit of the system and I will page on everyone that I see doing it.

Umm...why shouldn't a Tamer be able to use Honor if they've invested the time to work on that Virtue?

I think it's a bit extreme to call that an exploit. How exactly do you know that this is a "flaw in the system"?

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Straight from the EA UO Page:

Gaining Honor:

You can gain Honor by engaging in honorable combat with monsters or NPCs. You can do this by double-clicking the Honor icon on the Virtue gump and targeting an appropriate opponent. You will face your opponent, bow to them, and speak the words, “I honor you.”

You then must defeat your opponent in an honorable fashion.

Honorable combat is defined as:

Allowing your opponent to damage you first. Engaging in one-on-one combat. (comment by Ben, not 1v1 plus pet)
Not using ranged weapons, unless you stay in the same spot where you honored your opponent, or you only damage your opponent while adjacent to them. Not allowing your pets or summoned creatures to help you during the battle. Avoiding the use of poison.

To engage an opponent in honorable combat, your opponent:

Must be one that you can perform negative actions upon.
Must be at full health.
Must not already be honored by a nearby player.
Must be close to you, in your line-of-sight, and have a clear path to you.

The amount of Honor you gain from defeating your opponent is determined by how closely you followed the above guidelines for honorable combat, as well as your opponent’s level of fame.

Virtuous Ability: Embrace Honor

The reward for following the path of Honor is the ability to move peacefully among aggressive monsters, as well as a damage bonus to melee combat.

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No where at all in there do I see it stated that it is intended for tamers to be able to use honor to tame without the fear of taking damage. Taming by design aggros the tamer to the tame. Using honor defeats this game design and thus is an exploit. An exploit that almost every tamer now uses and an exploit that the "leet" tamers never complain one bit about abusing.

Umm...why shouldn't a Tamer be able to use Honor if they've invested the time to work on that Virtue?

I think it's a bit extreme to call that an exploit. How exactly do you know that this is a "flaw in the system"?

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Using honor for its intended purpose is not an issue. Using honor to defeat an action in game that should aggro you to the monster IS an issue. If a warrior embraces honor then attacks a creature, that creature immediently attacks the warrior. It should work exactly the same way for a tamer... If you embrace your honor and decide to dance and skip thru a horde of monsters, fine enjoy it. If you embrace your honor and aggro a monster by starting to tame it, then your honor should stop and you should start being attacked.

Heres an idea, strip embracing honor from the game. No more crying hows that sound? It doesnt make sense in the first place that just because your honorable you can run through endless amounts of monsters

What ever happened to enjoying the game the way you like, and not spending all your time worrying about what others are doing. Im getting tired of reading all these whining posts.

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I suddenly "care" about what tamers are doing because if you watch these forums, about every 5 minutes some tamer chimes in to whine about something else that is not being handed to them on a silver platter. Like the numerous threads and posts about "tamer griefing" well goodness, its about time that the tamers got a little of the grief that they dish out thrown back in their faces. So, as I said before, every tamer I see embracing honor to defeat an agro taming action in game thus exploiting a loophole in the system, I will page on.

Heres an idea, strip embracing honor from the game. No more crying hows that sound? It doesnt make sense in the first place that just because your honorable you can run through endless amounts of monsters

Stratics Veteran

No where at all in there do I see it stated that it is intended for tamers to be able to use honor to tame without the fear of taking damage. Taming by design aggros the tamer to the tame. Using honor defeats this game design and thus is an exploit. An exploit that almost every tamer now uses and an exploit that the "leet" tamers never complain one bit about abusing.

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And no where does it state that you cannot use honor for the purpose of taming. There's no difference between the right of one template gaining honor over another. Your reasoning is absurd. I have a tamer is he allowed to do escorts? Can he sacrafice his fame or is that stricly for Necromancers and Paladins?

The mentality of a good portion of the playerbase is mindblowing. Tamers this and that. Archers this and that. Bards this and that...

You have what... 6 character slots?

I'm not a tamer but I do have a tamer on my account. I also have an archer but I am not an archer. I like to play the archer template I also like to play the samarai template but I'm not a samarai. Get it?

Stratics Veteran

You know what I do? I lure on them. Just for being a tamer. And most of them die, because they don't know how to play UO, they only know how to farm in controlled circumstances. And the GMs never do a thing to me, because I don't say anything, I don't stick around to try to keep the spawn, I just get them killed and keep moving. Maybe I say "Help monsters are chasing me!" in case of one EA's incompetent GMs DOES read the log someday.

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Wow...does treating other people that way make you feel special?

What gives you the right to harrass players that are simply enjoying the game using a perfectly legal playstyle, Animal Taming? I would be ashamed that I treated someone that way just because they were having fun and I wasn't.

It's no surprise that veteran and new players alike are discouraged, especially if they run into players that act like this regularly.

And no where does it state that you cannot use honor for the purpose of taming. There's no difference between the right of one template gaining honor over another. Your reasoning is absurd. I have a tamer is he allowed to do escorts? Can he sacrafice his fame or is that stricly for Necromancers and Paladins?

The mentality of a good portion of the playerbase is mindblowing. Tamers this and that. Archers this and that. Bards this and that...

You have what... 6 character slots?

I'm not a tamer but I do have a tamer on my account. I also have an archer but I am not an archer. I like to play the archer template I also like to play the samarai template but I'm not a samarai. Get it?

Classifying or generalizing the playerbase is well....

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Quite obviously you can not read. As I stated before,

Using honor for its intended purpose is not an issue. Using honor to defeat an action in game that should aggro you to the monster IS an issue. If a warrior embraces honor then attacks a creature, that creature immediently attacks the warrior. It should work exactly the same way for a tamer... If you embrace your honor and decide to dance and skip thru a horde of monsters, fine enjoy it. If you embrace your honor and aggro a monster by starting to tame it, then your honor should stop and you should start being attacked.

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Don't come in and try to twist what I'm saying without reading and understanding what I'm saying. I could care less if every single trammie tamer has knight of honor to look all pretty on their paperdoll. What does bother me is that they are exploiting a function of the game, they whine about every little thing, every thing has to go their way... then an exploit comes along that benefits them and its shhhhhh... we dont want this one fixed.. just fix the ones that other people use, leave the tamer exploits alone. It is certainly an exploit when an action that should aggro the tame does not aggro it. Like I said before, if warriors embrace honor then attack a monster, they immediently start getting attacked. Why would and should it not work exactly the same way for taming? Taming by design aggros the animal being tamed.....therefore if they are using honor and aggro it, they should get their little luck suit wearing azz bitten off.

If you want rules, then the rules should apply to EVERYONE and EVERY class.

Stratics Veteran

Your typecasting and bigotry leaves me totally speechless. I sincerely hope I don't play the shard you do.

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Either Skrag plays on Pacific or there are alot of Pets named Bubbles and Cuddles.

Seriously, i am glad i emptied out my house and banked everything in anticipation of my vacation from Ultima Online. I'm not picking sides here at all but things are getting ugly and i rather watch from the sidelines for a lil while.

Lemme just say (and i'm still not taking either side here) I have a bunch of failed tamers on my account that eventually became something else (Bard and Warriors mostly) and finally after months and months of persistance i finally have a successful one and i am enjoying the hell outta it.

Now i knoow that lettting my pets kill to gain honor makes it tiake longer BUUUUUUTTT I have to kill 20 yes 2 0 Balarons to gain one blue dot of honor at follower about 40 minutes worth at least. for ONE dot of honor. Now again I know I am a gimp tamer but if i chose to use my HARD earnerd honor to assist my tames it costs me one whole dot of honor.

now i dont succede and must honor myself again bah now two dots. Over 1.5 hours fighting to get my honor back to knight?

Somthign seems a little out of whack here.

Espevcially considering any warrior doesnt use any honor points while using his / her honor to get 100 times damage to their targets?

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Wow 40 whole minutes to kill 20 balrons? Your right,there is something out of whack...its the tamers template...its overpowered. Why should you get honor from what your pet is doing? Are you doing direct damage to the balron yourself or is your overpowered superdragon doing everything for you as you hide under its belly spamming "all kill" commands?

Stratics VeteranAlumni

If you want to be safer for every tame, you'd probably be better with peacemaking in your template. Or get a friend to bring their peace bard when you go to tame a new pet. That would be much more workable than farming up honour points each time you want to go taming.

I've never bothered with honour for taming, you don't actually need it, or peacing - a very basic lead taming method works with every pet out there, it's just a matter of perfecting the technique and equiping yourself to deal with the pet you're taming. Like strong armour, potions, orange petals etc.

The way I look at it, this whole debate is pointless. With soulstones, my characters can be anything at any time - and if he is virtuous enough, then he should be able to use the benefits granted by those virtuous acts. The 8 virtues are built into Ultima Online as a model of good and no virtue should be limited to one template or skill set. If you do that, then the idea of an Avatar goes out the window.

And before you lump me in with the tamers, while I do occasionally use that template, 80% of the time or more, I am a pure mage - leaving the tamer maybe a percent or two amongst the other potential templates available from 55 skills.

The quote of the skill description above lists the things that reduce the honor gain. This does not remove the gain, only reduce it. Using pets reduces that gain meaning it will take a lot more kills to achieve the same level as one who fights with more honor - but by design of the programmers, tamers do gain!

Also, what's the difference between Walking with Honor amongst your enemies or using the spellweaving - etherreal voyage? Both are tools available for all to use.

Basically, the ultimate goal of UO (if you hold true to the morals taught in the original series) is to become the avatar! Those above who are saying tamers are not honorable (sorry, it's a package deal - cost and benefit) are basically taking away the ultimate reason to play. I play to be the Avatar!

I'm surprised to see someone calling the tamer's template's ability to build one of the virtues an 'exploit' of some sort. Look at the big picture. Why should every template type not be able to inherently use all of the virtues? The typical tamer has 300+ skill points put toward being able to obtain, control, and heal his pets, why should that count against the tamer?

There's varying speeds at which tamers can put on honor, and killing balrons and invissing while it goes down is a slow one. The fastest honor gains I can get are with a beetle-bake killing succubus in the fan dancer mojo and its tough! Yes, on foot, and you're mage healing the heck out of one or both of the pets the whole time, and then bandaging them fast between the succubus spawns. I also poison field her to help for when the beetle doesn't get a poison in fast enough. I try to stand in one place from the beginning of the honoring to the monster's death, too. If one spawns near you, you have to do the right thing, right away. If you make a mistake, do it wrong, you will be dead or your pets will be dead and things will cascade into a cluserf*ck. And she DOES get on me, realize. I just have to deal, try to heal and cure through it, keep poison fields down, and hope she switches off of me soon. Sometimes I have to run my ass off.

I'm not invis when working succubus this way, ever, I'm too busy to be invis. The fastest possible killing of succubus and honor gains has the tradeoff of being a pain in the ass and being dangerous.

A cu sidhe works well too, it's a bit safer and more laid back, but it's not the fastest way.

My beetle-bake probably isn't killing any faster than the bush dexers who come down do, but i think the dexers may have an easier time staying alive, they are at least mounted and they have great resists.

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It also sounds like somebody has it out for people who are honor taming. I can see where in the context of the recent Cove invasion thingie the honor tamers look lame. I've seen them standing there trying to tame something that is trying to kill someone else, and there's tons of spawn all around, and all the spawn is ignoring the honor tamer while it's attacking everyone else, and well, yeah. I understand what you saw and how it's part of someone being lame.

But realize that this isn't a normal situation and the normal use of honor while taming doesn't look like this. If you as a dexer can honor yourself and completely save your ass from a dungeon full of the nastiest monsters, then the equivalent should apply to a tamer template.

I take the time and effort to build honor on my tamer so that I can tame those few select superdragons that I want to keep or give away to someone. Every single tame takes at least one dot away, that's if I am taming some dragon for a noob who just wants one, or I've found a primo one for myself or my buddies.

Because of the way I build honor and try not to take all day with it, I usually die a couple times while doing it. Succubus can be very nasty; catch a lag spike with one and you're looking at black-and-white and a run all the way out of the mojo for a wonderful rez (or two, or three) right next to a ronin and a fan dancer (they aggro on you right as you appear, ugh!). But then later, I don't die while trying to get that superdragon. It's like, I'm getting to pick when I die, not so much that it's made me an invulnerable tamer.

Frankly, I'm tired of watching unskilled middle-aged housewives farm high-end monsters for 16 hours per day with white wyrms named "Bubbles" and "Cuddles" that they tamed because any template requiring more savvy or coordination than "all kill, an lor xen" tends to end with "that time you tried to get Mom to play Super Mario Brothers twenty years ago only you told her jumping down the pits was good" levels of disaster in their hands.

Then with every expansion/event/patch the developers throw in some other ridiculous bleed/poisoning/self-healing/overpowered pet for tamers to play with, while everyone else gets a t-shirt that reads "I shoulda been playing WoW!" or a crap piece of armor that you wouldn't pick off an ettin's corpse under normal circumstances.

And despite being the anointed god-lords of UO, they come here and cry about every single little thing that doesn't go exactly their way. You know what I do? I lure on them. Just for being a tamer. And most of them die, because they don't know how to play UO, they only know how to farm in controlled circumstances. And the GMs never do a thing to me, because I don't say anything, I don't stick around to try to keep the spawn, I just get them killed and keep moving. Maybe I say "Help monsters are chasing me!" in case of one EA's incompetent GMs DOES read the log someday.

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Hey watch the cracks about us middle age house wives. I take exception to any post that lumps a group of people together. I've been a gamer since 1978. I taught both my son and daughter how to play video games including Mario. I tamed my pets without using honor and died alot doing it. I also have a paladian archer who i trained up the hard way. Part of the fun of this game is that you have a choice on the types of templete you play. So lets not be lumping people in groups please.

If you want to be safer for every tame, you'd probably be better with peacemaking in your template. Or get a friend to bring their peace bard when you go to tame a new pet. That would be much more workable than farming up honour points each time you want to go taming.

I've never bothered with honour for taming, you don't actually need it, or peacing - a very basic lead taming method works with every pet out there, it's just a matter of perfecting the technique and equiping yourself to deal with the pet you're taming. Like strong armour, potions, orange petals etc.

Wenchy

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IMO Wenchy is correct if you want to be safe for a large number of tames. But in my experience, if you're highly selective when you use honor, honor taming is superior. I ask peacers not to come when I honor tame dragons because it's a pain in the ass when the peacing fails and the dragon starts to attack the peacer. It can even interrupt the tame. If you're fast with your tame macro, follower-level honor gets you 3 to 4 tame attempts per superdragon, sometimes more.

My tamer is a DCI monster, and I can lead tame lots of stuff that way, even in lag.The future pet has serious trouble hitting me, including wild cu sidhes. But the superdragon's fire breath and the extreme hit chance possessed by the best of them puts them over the top. I'm not taming superdragons as an adventure in insurance money payout, I am doing it cause I want to tame it and take it home.

I can't be pumping pots and healing while at the same time spamming a tame macro on the superdragon. Honor just works really well and gets it done fast.

I am still at a lost on how to gain honor? I read the page and I wonder if someone can "in layman terms" explain to me what do I do to gain honor, pictures will help even more. What do I do, where do I click etc???

Also, what's the difference between Walking with Honor amongst your enemies or using the spellweaving - etherreal voyage? Both are tools available for all to use.

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Yeah theres 2 things in spellweaving which mimic virtues. They can self-rez and honor, essentially. The self-rez gets annoying in PVP sometimes! At least the honor-mimic doesn't last real long and it puts them into a dismounted form.

I am still at a lost on how to gain honor? I read the page and I wonder if someone can "in layman terms" explain to me what do I do to gain honor, pictures will help even more. What do I do, where do I click etc???

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In the 2d client, to examine the current status of your virtues, double click the pentagram-looking thing right at the top of your paperdoll. A weird gump will pop up with large circles on it. Each large circle corresponds with the status of one virtue, and if you actually have any credit built up on any of the virtues, the corresponding circle will be colored in some way (the color hue is brighter or lower based upon the "tier" of the virtue you have earned, more on that coming in a sec). For honor, the honor circle will have purple in it.

There's 4 tiers to honor - nothing, seeker, follower, and knight. To advance through each one, you do the honorable acts, and each act adds just a little bit of honor. Over time, you progress through seeker, into follower, and then maybe to knight.

On that circle filled gump, click the blue 'status' button on the bottom of that gump, and then click the blue dot thingie for honor, and you'll see how many colored 'dots' into your particular form (nothing, seeker, follower) you are. Red dots mean unfilled dots. As you do honorable acts, you will see the blue dots replace the reds ones moving from left to right, then when the page is completely full, it will pop you one tier higher, and reset your dots back to none. It takes a number of honorable acts to move even one dot, it's not a 1 to 1 ratio.

To build honor, you make a UO macro that says:

Invoke virtue, Honor.

And then, when you are about to attack an undamaged monster, you activate that macro. A targeting cursor will come up. You select the monster (or its health bar or its name tag, whatever), and then you kill the monster. You'll see a message saying that you gained honor, assuming you did.

And you do that over and over again, and you will see the blue dots increase.

The benefit of honor, once you get to seeker or follower or knight, is that you can use that macro, and then instead of targeting the monster, you target yourself. All the monsters that are around you will ignore you for a little while. When you're only seeker, it doesn't last real long; when you're follower, it lasts a fair amount of time so you can get things done; and if you managed to hit knight, that sh*t seems to last a long time. Maintaining knight is a pain in the ass though, if you actually use your honor somewhat regularly.

I am still at a lost on how to gain honor? I read the page and I wonder if someone can "in layman terms" explain to me what do I do to gain honor, pictures will help even more. What do I do, where do I click etc???

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I'm not any good with pictures, but...

Approach the toughest monster that you can solo fairly well (without a lot of running around). Open the Virtue Menu (2D - small circle with 6 sided star in it at the top of the paperdoll : KR - Virtue icon along the bottom right of the screen) and then click the honor icon (2D - the cup at about 1:30 on the clock face of icons : KR - select honor in the list, then grab the icon at the bottom of the page to use in a hot-bar or macro) and you should get a target - select the monster. It must not have taken any damage yet, and it must not have blessed itself.

Kill the monster honorably... One on One combat. Use direct damage as much as possible. Stand toe to toe as much as possible (hard for tamer or mage). Do not run away! Do not use poison! I forget the rest but there was a list above somewhere...

When the monster dies, in the lower left corner of your screen you should see:
You have gained... Karma.
You have gained... Fame.
You have gained in Honor.

Gains are fairly fast at the lowest honor levels, and slow down significantly as you go along.

In the 2d client, to examine the current status of your virtues, double click the pentagram-looking thing right at the top of your paperdoll. A weird gump will pop up with large circles on it. Each large circle corresponds with the status of one virtue, and if you actually have any credit built up on any of the virtues, the corresponding circle will be colored in some way (the color hue is brighter or lower based upon the "tier" of the virtue you have earned, more on that coming in a sec). For honor, the honor circle will have purple in it.

There's 4 tiers to honor - nothing, seeker, follower, and knight. To advance through each one, you do the honorable acts, and each act adds just a little bit of honor. Over time, you progress through seeker, into follower, and then maybe to knight.

On that circle filled gump, click the blue 'status' button on the bottom of that gump, and then click the blue dot thingie for honor, and you'll see how many colored 'dots' into your particular form (nothing, seeker, follower) you are. Red dots mean unfilled dots. As you do honorable acts, you will see the blue dots replace the reds ones moving from left to right, then when the page is completely full, it will pop you one tier higher, and reset your dots back to none. It takes a number of honorable acts to move even one dot, it's not a 1 to 1 ratio.

To build honor, you make a UO macro that says:

Invoke virtue, Honor.

And then, when you are about to attack an undamaged monster, you activate that macro. A targeting cursor will come up. You select the monster (or its health bar or its name tag, whatever), and then you kill the monster. You'll see a message saying that you gained honor, assuming you did.

And you do that over and over again, and you will see the blue dots increase.

The benefit of honor, once you get to seeker or follower or knight, is that you can use that macro, and then instead of targeting the monster, you target yourself. All the monsters that are around you will ignore you for a little while. When you're only seeker, it doesn't last real long; when you're follower, it lasts a fair amount of time so you can get things done; and if you managed to hit knight, that sh*t seems to last a long time. Maintaining knight is a pain in the ass though, if you actually use your honor somewhat regularly.

thank you both, I did try to set up at macro with "Invoke virtue, Honor." But got no target cursor, but when I open the paper doll/virtue window and db ck the honor icon I would get the cursor to target.

Stratics Veteran

If you want to be safer for every tame, you'd probably be better with peacemaking in your template. Or get a friend to bring their peace bard when you go to tame a new pet. That would be much more workable than farming up honour points each time you want to go taming.

I've never bothered with honour for taming, you don't actually need it, or peacing - a very basic lead taming method works with every pet out there, it's just a matter of perfecting the technique and equiping yourself to deal with the pet you're taming. Like strong armour, potions, orange petals etc.

Wenchy

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It's this stupid event. My tamer has knight of honor for over a year. Never had a use for it just did to complete my virtues. But idiots like Skrag (see above) think its cute to lure on you. Why oh why does Cove fel still have a guardzone??? It's really damned amusing to invoke you honor and watch them try everything they can to grief you and fail. I've dealt with too many idiots during this event. 3 of my favorites, #3 goes to the guy who lured everything on me and died trying to run away cause he couldn't get an invis off. #2 goes to the guy who died to the dread mare lol! Nice suit buddy. And #1 to the moron who tried to kill my newest pet and got guardwhacked. Only good thing about this event is all shards population of jackasses are contained in small areas on each server.

Just catch them over nears the docks. As for the Guards zone in Fel Cove, I'm glad they are still there, specially over near the healers, I hate getting res killed by players who think it cute to kill you just as you get healed.

So, am I out of place calling fowl here? C'mon moderators... there is some serious nastiness happening on the boards which is not really needed. I'm all for debating various aspect of the game, but when people start in with the stereotypes and mud slinging, its just not productive.

Until there are mass bannings or we hear from UO that its an exploit I shall continue to use it only for Greaters because of a 340 ping to my server. If that offends someones sense of wrong then so be it. I think its wrong that they took stat loss out of the game but then wtf? <shrug>

Seeker of Honor can embrace his honor for 30 seconds
Follower of Honor can embrace his honor for 90 seconds
Knight of Honor can embrace his honor for 5 minutes

So seeker isn't much of anything but follower is nice and if can get to knight then 5 minutes of being ignored by monsters is great. I don't know if the cool down timer between uses is different per level, but at Follower you have to wait 5 minutes before you can honor yourself again.

thank you both, I did try to set up at macro with "Invoke virtue, Honor." But got no target cursor, but when I open the paper doll/virtue window and db ck the honor icon I would get the cursor to target.

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It sounds like you might have another macro already set up using the same key combination. If so, just delete or modify the original one.

Stratics Veteran

Frankly, I'm tired of watching unskilled middle-aged housewives farm high-end monsters for 16 hours per day with white wyrms named "Bubbles" and "Cuddles" that they tamed because any template requiring more savvy or coordination than "all kill, an lor xen" tends to end with "that time you tried to get Mom to play Super Mario Brothers twenty years ago only you told her jumping down the pits was good" levels of disaster in their hands.

I have a number of peace tamers, a couple of whom are in factions. I generally use their peacemaking skills to tame pets. However, I have used honor a couple of times now to help with taming greater dragons. It's been a big help especially with the faction tamers because the guild I'm in is very small and it's not always easy to round up a couple of people who are also in factions to tag along to help keep my tamer alive while taming a greater dragon.

I have no problem with people using honor to help with taming. It takes some effort to raise it to at least the follower level and it can get used up pretty quickly when you're in the greater dragon taming mode. I have only had a couple of instances where I was able to tame the greater dragon during the first use of honor. Most of the time when I'm doing the taming solo with no support, I've used up a couple of dots (and a lot of uses on my barding instrument) by the time I'm successful, and run to the healer for a rez at least once if not two or three times. It then takes me quite a few hours of hunting to build up the honor again if I want to try it again later.

Stratics VeteranAlumni

It's this stupid event. My tamer has knight of honor for over a year. Never had a use for it just did to complete my virtues. But idiots like Skrag (see above) think its cute to lure on you. Why oh why does Cove fel still have a guardzone??? It's really damned amusing to invoke you honor and watch them try everything they can to grief you and fail. I've dealt with too many idiots during this event. 3 of my favorites, #3 goes to the guy who lured everything on me and died trying to run away cause he couldn't get an invis off. #2 goes to the guy who died to the dread mare lol! Nice suit buddy. And #1 to the moron who tried to kill my newest pet and got guardwhacked. Only good thing about this event is all shards population of jackasses are contained in small areas on each server.

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Lurers are surprisingly easy to deal with. Just hide and mount a pet or recall out. If they want to round up the spawn, then they can jolly well fight it Don't get your pets killed over it, just pull them out. I have a quiet town spot marked so I can recall a short distance away if necessary, though I haven't met with any real gits as yet. If I see one coming I just get the recall precast, sometimes that's enough to deter the gits. But I can certainly vouch for the effectiveness of hiding/invising then mounting your pet

In all your arguements about a tamer exploiting using Honor,I don`t see a damn thing that says its an exploit.What I do read is the rules of honor that dictate how much honor you recieve,depending on how many of the honor rules you followed.

So I think it is you who is twisting some words there pal.Go play checkers or something if all you have time for is making pointless pages on tamers who ARE NOT exploiting anything.What I wish is GM`s to slap peaple like you with the ban stick for making false accusations in the form of pages.I mean if a GM gets 4 ******** pages from some twit,maybe that GM should say,maybe this guy needs some time away from game to read the ToS and be sure about what they are paging on next time.

Stratics Veteran

Obviously ALL of you lamer tamers out there can NOT read, as I said earlier in the thread:

Using honor for its intended purpose is not an issue. Using honor to defeat an action in game that should aggro you to the monster IS an issue. If a warrior embraces honor then attacks a creature, that creature immediently attacks the warrior. It should work exactly the same way for a tamer... If you embrace your honor and decide to dance and skip thru a horde of monsters, fine enjoy it. If you embrace your honor and aggro a monster by starting to tame it, then your honor should stop and you should start being attacked.

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How much plainer or simplier can I make it for you? If we were having this conversation by voice face to face I would ask you if you wanted me to spell it out for you, but I have already done that here and you STILL don't understand.

Plain and simple, one more time, If you use honor and tiptoe thru the tulips go for it. If you use honor and aggro a monster you should get your azz bitten off. If a warrior or mage uses honor and attacks a creature (aggros) he gets attacked. What makes you tamers so damned special? NOTHING.... IT IS AN EXPLOIT of the intended use.

It sounds like you might have another macro already set up using the same key combination. If so, just delete or modify the original one.

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AHHH! reading your reply made me think and see that I could do this in the setting up the macros, I was at lost at first, was thinking "ok set up a macro saying" 'invoke virtue, honor' when its not saying it, just setting up in the area where you set macro in Options. Thank you all!

I am still at a lost on how to gain honor? I read the page and I wonder if someone can "in layman terms" explain to me what do I do to gain honor, pictures will help even more. What do I do, where do I click etc???

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The fastest way I know to do it is on Thrashers in the Blighted Grove. Take your Cu down there, run to where Thrasher spawns, Invis. Jump off your Cu and get right underneath it. Quick bring up your Honor macro, target and have your Cu kill it. The Cu will barely need a heal from you. Just make sure to stay directly under your Cu and have a quick finger on your Honor macro. The Thrasher spawns super fast and the Cu can take em down pretty quick. Easier that Succi.

Obviously ALL of you lamer tamers out there can NOT read, as I said earlier in the thread:

How much plainer or simplier can I make it for you? If we were having this conversation by voice face to face I would ask you if you wanted me to spell it out for you, but I have already done that here and you STILL don't understand.

Plain and simple, one more time, If you use honor and tiptoe thru the tulips go for it. If you use honor and aggro a monster you should get your azz bitten off. If a warrior or mage uses honor and attacks a creature (aggros) he gets attacked. What makes you tamers so damned special? NOTHING.... IT IS AN EXPLOIT of the intended use.

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I don't believe this could correctly be called an exploit. Here's what I think happens during an honor tame and what makes the difference between that and simply attacking a monster.

Honor causes the monsters who are around you to cancel out their own, initiated attacks against you. That is to say, if you don't become flagged as aggressor on the monster, it simply doesn't choose to jump you.

If you attack the monster however, everything works normally, and it fights you.

Taming an aggressive-cycling monster appears to not flag the tamer as a real aggressor. The tamer is not attacking the monster and as such, does not flag as such. The taming act simply triggers the monster's own aggression. So, the honor code works in this context to make the monster not follow through with it's attack. Honor taming also helps by keeping the other monsters off of your back, which is no small factor when standing in destard surrounded by 2 regular dragons (which DO spawn with significant eval!) and an unwanted superdragon waiting patiently behind you.

The real question here is not whether the performance of honor taming was fully planned by the UO people, but, do they determine it to be desireable for the purposes of game balance? My personal sense is that it's a great thing to encourage game time spent in UO -- giving a character class an additional, desireable reason to work up a virtue can be a plus, not a detraction. In this context, I'd be shocked if they changed the honor code such that honor taming ceased to work.

Obviously ALL of you lamer tamers out there can NOT read, as I said earlier in the thread:

How much plainer or simplier can I make it for you? If we were having this conversation by voice face to face I would ask you if you wanted me to spell it out for you, but I have already done that here and you STILL don't understand.

Plain and simple, one more time, If you use honor and tiptoe thru the tulips go for it. If you use honor and aggro a monster you should get your azz bitten off. If a warrior or mage uses honor and attacks a creature (aggros) he gets attacked. What makes you tamers so damned special? NOTHING.... IT IS AN EXPLOIT of the intended use.

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"Using honor to defeat an action in game that should aggro you to the monster IS an issue"?

umm hello so let me get this str8..... you say "Using honor to defeat an action in game that should aggro you to the monster IS an issue".

so does that mean since you can use peacemaking to defeat an action in game that should aggro you is also an issue?
if not why? How is it any different? I fail to see your logic here.

and then you say "If a warrior or mage uses honor and attacks a creature (aggros) he gets attacked. What makes you tamers so damned special?"

This comment just makes you look bad.... How about the fact the tamer IS NOT doing damage like the mage and warrior did. HELLO! Hey i know!!!! You playing UO must be an exploit omg... quick page a gm! *rolls eyes*

Come on you have to be joking? Stop whining over how others play the game and play it your way let others play it theirs. the game is for everyone to have fun and play their own way. you should do the same. A tamer honor taming something isnt effecting you at all.. well other then your over sized jealous self righteous ego.

Seeker of Honor can embrace his honor for 30 seconds
Follower of Honor can embrace his honor for 90 seconds
Knight of Honor can embrace his honor for 5 minutes

So seeker isn't much of anything but follower is nice and if can get to knight then 5 minutes of being ignored by monsters is great. I don't know if the cool down timer between uses is different per level, but at Follower you have to wait 5 minutes before you can honor yourself again.

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5 minutes at Knight, omg? That IS huge.

5 minutes is way longer than I need to tame ANYTHING. I could probably tame Paroxy in that time. I can also lure the Lady M satyrs properly within that 90 seconds, 5 minutes is way overkill there too.

I'm not suggesting changing the times, but the way it's worked out for me is that going to Knight does not make sense. When you completely max out your honor, you get to use it at the Knight level just once, and then you are right back down to follower. It's tough to make those last points of honor to get into Knight, and when I blow a couple honor points a day and I don't need 5 minutes of honor time, I can't see why to make Knight.

It could be that the 5 minutes carries significant value to warriors or mages who really want that entire 5 minutes for some application, I donno. Like I said I can't come out and suggest changing this, but I also can't say I find it quite right. By choice I maintain knight of justice (real kills not guildie kills), valor, sacrifice, and compassion, and it's weird to have to say no, I don't want knight of honor.

BTW Dev people if you are reading this: a buff icon showing how much honor time you have left would be wonderful!

Frankly, I'm tired of watching unskilled middle-aged housewives farm high-end monsters for 16 hours per day with white wyrms named "Bubbles" and "Cuddles" that they tamed because any template requiring more savvy or coordination than "all kill, an lor xen" tends to end with "that time you tried to get Mom to play Super Mario Brothers twenty years ago only you told her jumping down the pits was good" levels of disaster in their hands.

Then with every expansion/event/patch the developers throw in some other ridiculous bleed/poisoning/self-healing/overpowered pet for tamers to play with, while everyone else gets a t-shirt that reads "I shoulda been playing WoW!" or a crap piece of armor that you wouldn't pick off an ettin's corpse under normal circumstances.

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Not that I care one way or another what people do in PvM, but that made me laugh...... good one.

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