Ballots to remain uncounted in MI and Stein blocked in Philly. Guest: Election integrity, law expert Paul Lehto says this proves 'only option is to get it right on Election Night'. Also: Trump taps climate denier, fossil-fuel tool for EPA...

Not that we condone this sort of thing...but...since we're rather busy for the moment...and...since this exchange includes quite a bit of educational and historical material...and...since it's always nice to see an arrogant wingnut put into his proper place (back under the bridge with the rest of the trolls)...We elevate the following BRAD BLOG comments exchange (smackdown) to full-fledged blog item.

In our recent article introducing Velvet Revolution to the world, commenter "des" made the notable point that many of the revolutionaries who fought for America's freedom from King George (the original one), were ordinary working-class folk who had set aside their simple lives to take up the fight against corruption and oppression.

That notion did not sit well with commenter/Freeper/wingnut/historical-revisionist "Paul" who opined:

The Founding Fathers were not ordinary men. They were extraordinary! They were Christians, deists, and inspired by Godly principles like liberty and other inalienable rights. The [sic] put everything on the line. Almost all of the signers of the Declaration of Independence died in poverty. They were not conspiracy theorists. The were not liberals. The Pilgrims rejected communal farms. They rejected Communism. They came here for religious freedom, not freedom from religion.

Never mind that neither the concept, nor word "communism" (small "c") even existed until the French Revolution of 1830. A fair number of years after said Founding Fathers would have "rejected" such a concept in Paul's World o' Make-Believe History. Or that the Communist (capital "C") Party didn't come into existence until several years later (under "Paul's" brilliant oratorical logic, we'd also have to conclude that both the Founder Fathers and the Pilgrims similarly "rejected cell phones")... It was the great American, and BRAD BLOG staple "Winter Patriot" who gave our confused and brain-addled and washed friend "Paul" the humiliating historical spanking that he so self-righteously deserves...

The Founding Fathers were NOT all Christians. And the United States was NOT intended to be a Christian country. Thomas Jefferson wrote:

I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth.

And Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli, drafted in 1796 (President Washington's last year in office), passed unanimously and signed into law in 1797 by President John Adams, says:

"...the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..."

So there's that. But let's not dwell on one solitary lie. Let's look at some of the other nonsense which our friend Paul has so graciously posted...

For example, If LIBERTY is a GODLY idea, then why is our supposedly Godly so-called president leading an administration which is so determined to keep taking away of our [former] civil liberties?

And did the Pilgrims REALLY reject communism? That's a good one! People of the 16th century rejected a concept that didn't appear until the 20th century? How did they do that, Paul? Did they have a TIME MACHINE?

The Pilgrims came here for religious freedom? Good! We finally agree on something. But religious freedom means religious freedom for EVERYBODY. Not just for fundamentalist Christians!

And if the Founding Fathers weren't conspiracy theorists, then they must have been CONSPIRACY REALISTS, because they surely recognized a conspiracy when they saw one. Their writings make this abundantly clear.

The Founding Fathers would be UTTERLY HORRIFIED by what has happened to their country, and by what their country has done to the rest of the world. And they would be appalled if they knew that their names and their memories were being abused in an attempt to justify it.

So, Paul: Why don't you go sell your horse manure somewhere else? Maybe you should try to find a less educated audience, because we have a bunch of people around here who know horse manure when we see it. And we're looking at some right now!

(Brief pause while the applause dies down...)

And so, another Freeper is sent back to his cave with tail between his legs. Though he will no doubt return to "fight" another day towards yet another ignominious defeat at the hands of the educated and not-easily-cowed.

Until then, dear friends, we leave you with the sage words from whence our friend "Winter Patriot" takes his apt pseudonym (as posted at the top of his fine blog):

"These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman."-- Thomas Paine, "The Crisis", December 23, 1776

Thank you to all the Winter Patriots out there in Bradville and beyond. You do indeed have our love and thanks for your brave and unshrinking service to your country in this time when the sun seems too-often darkened and the chill winds of winter sweep across the fruited plains.

If we can stop those who would deny us our liberty from using the names of the founding fathers to justify oppression and religious intolerance, we are one step closer to reclaiming those liberties which have already been stolen.

Although Jefferson believed in a Creator, his concept of it resembled that of the god of deism (the term "Nature's God" used by deists of the time). With his scientific bent, Jefferson sought to organize his thoughts on religion. He rejected the superstitions and mysticism of Christianity and even went so far as to edit the gospels, removing the miracles and mysticism of Jesus (see The Jefferson Bible) leaving only what he deemed the correct moral philosophy of Jesus.

PAUL: GOOD JOB AT NAILING THESE ATHEIST COMMUNISTS WHILE THEY ARE IN THEIR DRUG INDUCED STUPORS. THE ATHEISTS GREATEST LIE IS THAT JEFFERSON DID NOT BELIEVE IN GOD. JEFFERSON WAS A DEIST. THE ATHEISTS HERE ALSO LIKE TO QUOTE THE TRIPOLI TREATY. WINTER FORGOT TO TELL YOU THAT THE "FAMOUS" PARAGRAPH HE QUOTES WAS ABSENT FROM THE ARABIC COPY OF THE TREATY, MEANING THAT IT WAS ADDED BY AN ATHEIST AS AN AFTER THOUGHT:

Accomodationists frequently note that Article 11 appeared only in the English version of the treaty; in the Arabic version a letter-like page of gibberish appears where Article 11 should be. The Arabic version was translated by Joel Barlow, the diplomatic representative that negotiated the treaty on behalf of the United States. Barlow was a good friend of Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, and James Monroe, and was most likely a deist or atheist. It is almost certain that he authored Article 11 in the English version. Many accomodationists seem to think that the absence of Article 11 in the Arabic version has something to do with Barlow, and that this absence should somehow blunt the separationist impact of the English Article 11.

The Pilgrims were here 150 years ahead of the Founding Fathers. They were Puritans, who might have claimed they were seeking religious freedom but in fact were intolerant (see Salem Witch Trials). To a Puritan, any non-Puritan was a threat.

That was the 17th century. The 18th century became the Age of Enlightenment, during which the world's great thinkers in Europe and North America formulated ideas upon which two great revolutions were based...first in the United States, then France.

Organized religion was welcomed, but was never the lodestar of government. The late 1700s was not a time of heavy church attendance. References to God in the Constitution were generic, never faith specific. The United States came into being as a secular nation.

"The Star Spangled Banner" was composed during the War of 1812. It doesn't mention God.

"The Battle Hymn of the Republic," which does evoke Christian images, was first a poem, later a song, written during the Civil War by an early feminist, Julia Ward Howe, a close friend of John Wilkes Booth's mother.

"America the Beautiful," which asks God to "shed His grace on Thee (us)," was written in the late 19th century by Katherine Bates, a woman who was inspired by seeing mountains in California.

"God Bless America" was composed by a Jewish Russian immigrant in the 20th century, and is heard most often at hockey games, at Yankee Stadium, and at the end of every political speech.

You know, I feel I must say a few words in defense of atheists here.
Finding oneself in this life, on this planet, without a 'spiritual handbook', so to say, without a map or mentor to guide one's steps with certainty, does not render one evil.
If, after considering the various theories, philosophies & dogmas to which one has access , one arrives at the conclusion that there is no God, one does not necessarily decide to go out and rape & pillage. Atheism is simply one of the choices available to thinking humans, in my view. It is not synonymous with evil.
Ditto re agnosticism, the more sensible stance imho, since atheism impies a degree of certainty with which I am not all that comfortable.
I respect sincere people of any faith who have not been twisted by hateful propaganda, and I respect equally any sincere person to embraces atheism or agnosticism; I think by the way, that we should include this in any 'platform' we espouse. Imho!

They were Puritans, who might have claimed they were seeking religious freedom but in fact were intolerant (see Salem Witch Trials).

What an absolute lunatic way of describing "intolerance"! Several Puritans decided that their dire circumstances were the result of witchcraft and convinced others to go along with purging their community of them and ROBERT says this is INTOLERANCE! hahahhahahhaahahha

I guess putting people in prison is also an act of intolerance right Robert, or how about Stalin killing all the peasants, that was an act of intolerance also right?

Cool , smack em with the truth....I can hear the founding fathers laughing.....just as loud as me

As long as gopers take history lessons from
Moonie, Fartwell , Robertson, Haguee, ect. then
they will be misled . I can not believe these freaks
of nature are in total control of my America. And
yes I am a Christian. A loving Liberal, a truth
seeker, not a bullshit scooper.

Lie is the opposite of truth. Truth is the medicine that cures my 4 year old headache.
Ah...it feels soooo gooood......

Joan didn't say we should embrace anyone... just that she respects those who embrace other people's beliefs or right to believe what they want.

your posts increasingly show that you are intollerant of atheists (and i guess others who do not agree with your beliefs) - meanwhile many atheists are tollerant of you and your beliefs (except for when they threaten the value of education or cause detriment to society - as many religious missions into politics sadly seem to do).

What does the lack of tollerance say about the morality of each side?

..and with each post, you are confirming the non-tollerant, "never wrong", negative Christian stereotype, please stop embaressing yourself. I personally don't have a problem with you and your belief in your religion, I think it contradicts facts, common sense, etc... but you are free to believe what you want to believe. Using the rules you seem to use for your postings.. I should be calling Christians morons... but I'm not... and that's because I know that religious beliefs (or lack of religion) do not necessarily make someone moral or amoral, idiotic or intellectual.

To make assumptions about people's lifestyles or factual knowledge based purely on their religion is ridiculous and extremely narrow-minded.

Joan didn't say we should embrace anyone... just that she respects those who embrace other people's beliefs or right to believe what they want.

your posts increasingly show that you are intollerant of atheists (and i guess others who do not agree with your beliefs) - meanwhile many atheists are tollerant of you and your beliefs (except for when they threaten the value of education or cause detriment to society - as many religious missions into politics sadly seem to do).

What does the lack of tollerance say about the morality of each side?

..and with each post, you are confirming the non-tollerant, "never wrong", negative Christian stereotype, please stop embaressing yourself. I personally don't have a problem with you and your belief in your religion, I think it contradicts facts, common sense, etc... but you are free to believe what you want to believe. Using the rules you seem to use for your postings.. I should be calling Christians morons... but I'm not... and that's because I know that religious beliefs (or lack of religion) do not necessarily make someone moral or amoral, idiotic or intellectual.

To make assumptions about people's lifestyles or factual knowledge based purely on their religion is ridiculous and extremely narrow-minded.

Always the highest praise Winter Patriot! Ditto for Brad too! Great blogs both of them. And Peg and Joan and Bluebird and Teresa and.... Everyone, all of you in this lib-rul coffee house we call Bradville..

And thank you all for your compassionate handling of our pet jimmo. It seems his heroes have stolen his Social Security account and are now trying to con jimmo into giving it all to their rich friends, even though he knows the account is empty. Poor victim jimmo...

Wake up, everyone! Scroll back and see who has hijacked yet another thread! How simple does it have to be? These guys can and will happily feast on our bones as easily as any other "game"! Would you feed bears in the forest, to paraphrase a tad? Ignore the trolls. We have serious business to attend to!

> "The Star Spangled Banner" was composed during the War of 1812. It doesn't mention God.

The Star Spangled Banner does mention God Mr. Mills, see the 4th verse.

The Defense of Fort McHenry
by Francis Scott Key
20 September 1814

Oh, say can you see, by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars, through the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming?
And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.
O say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

On the shore, dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, now conceals, now discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In full glory reflected now shines on the stream:
'Tis the star-spangled banner! O long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion
A home and a country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wiped out their foul footstep's pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved homes and the war's desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heaven-rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, for our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust."
And the star-spangled banner forever shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

Religious Freedom-- Doesn't Christianity encompass
many different religions such as Catholic, Protestant and others. I'm not that in touch with the wide variety of religions out there. I was raised Catholic and was raised fearing God in a way that debilitated me. In the Catholic religion, you are dealt the Hell card for almost anything, unless you go to confession and recieve the body of Christ. As I became an adult and realized I could never meet the standards of the Catholic religion, I stopped going to church and confession.
However, I still believe in God. I pray to him every night. I see his miracles happen to me and other people often. The God I believe in knows I am a sinner. I don't have to confess that to anyone. What is important is that I live my life in a way he would be proud. I am kind to people, I help those who need help. I do not stab people in the back to acquire my own desires. I do not lie to get people to act on my agenda. I do not scare people into doing my will. This is what I find draws me to the Democratic Party. Being a believer in God does not make me feel a connection to the Republican Party at all. I feel that they are not true followers of the what Christ stood for. They will stomp the meek for their own agenda. They will scare the uneducated and uninformed into submission. Yet they proclaim that they are the leaders in spreading morals and values throughout our country. Sorry, I don't buy it. I am a Democrat, Proud of it. I believe the Democratic Party has it's faults, but there is no such thing as perfection. I hate abortion, but believe everyone has the right to make that decision for themselves. I could never do it, but I have friends and relatives who have. I still love them deeply. It is their issue to deal with.
I am not a homosexual. I have friends and relatives who are. I still love them deeply. It is their issue to deal with. I am not in this life to control others. God gave us free will to make our own decisions. I see the Republican Party as a controlling, judgmental entity that wants everybody to behave in a way that is pleases them. I would rather please God.

> Therefore, "inalienable rights" are rights that cannot be taken away

Correct! Men give and take away rights, but they can't take away God-given rights.

Here you go kook left:

"It is impossible to govern rightly without God and the Bible."--- George Washington

"O most glorious God ... Direct my thoughts, words and work, wash away my sins in the immaculate blood of the Lamb, and purge my heart by thy Holy Spirit.... Daily frame me more and more into the likeness of thy Son Jesus Christ.... Thou gavest thy Son to die for me, and hast given me assurance of salvation...." --George Washington

"Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of people that these liberties are the gift of God?"--- Thomas Jefferson

"We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government: upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."--- James Madison

"I have lived, Sir, a long time and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth --- that God governs the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire cannot rise without His aid? We have been assured in the sacred writings that, 'except the Lord build the house they labor in vain that build it.'"--- Benjamin Franklin, at the Constitutional Convention, June 28, 1787

"We have this day restored the Sovereign to whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in Heaven, and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let His Kingdom come."--- Samuel Adams, as he signed the Declaration of Independence

"Our Fathers were brought up by their veneration for the Christian religion. They journeyed by its light, and labored in its hope. They sought to incorporate its principles within the elements of their society, and to diffuse its influence through all their institutions --- civil, political, or literary."--- Daniel Webster

"To the distinguished character of a Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of a Christian."--- George Washington

"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity."--- John Quincy Adams

"Here is my Creed. I believe in one God, the Creator of the Universe. That He governs it by His Providence. That He ought to be worshipped...As to Jesus of Nazareth...I think the System of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, is the best the World ever saw, or is likely to see."---Benjamin Franklin

"Proclaim liberty throughout the land unto all the inhabitants thereof."---Leviticus 25:10, inscribed on the Liberty Bell

"Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!"---Patrick Henry, Speech in the Virginia Convention, March, 1775

"The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time."---Thomas Jefferson

"Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is Just,"---Thomas Jefferson

> What is important is that I live my life in a way he would be proud. I am kind to people, I help those who need help. I do not stab people in the back to acquire my own desires. I do not lie to get people to act on my agenda. I do not scare people into doing my will.

That's great Becky but your good works alone won't get you into Heaven.

It's sad but you sound like so many Catholics who have been turned off by the Catholic Church.

Yes we have free will and yes, we love the sinner but not the sin.

Your view of the Republican Party is distorted because you live to oppose everything the party does and everything this president does. You believe every conspiracy. You say you love the person who had an abortion and you love the person who is a homosexual, yet you hate this president.

You believe that every person has the right to kill their baby. Well, perhaps in another time and in another place you may have believed that it was everyone's right to own a slave. Who set slaves free? A Republican Party and a Republican president. Who wants to see the unborn set free from being murdered, well, that same Republican Party.

The only common thread of logic I can find in the New GOPers arguments is abject loyalty to Bush. It seems as if the worst criticism of "liberals" is that they "hate Bush." What could be more dastardly and hypocritical than hating Bush but "preaching love."

re # 39: No kidding, Dan. We've had all this inane blather about whether or not the Founding Fathers believed in God, and which party freed the slaves, and lots more besides, but none of it has any bearing on today's problems.

Today's list of problems runs something like this: the presidential election was clearly stolen, and that makes two in a row. This president, and therefore this whole administration, has gained and held power through illegitimate means, and they are using their ill-gotten power to do great damage, not only to America but to the rest of the world as well.

Their war against Afghanistan was unjustified, their war against Iraq is unjustified, and their war against the people of America is not only unjustified but it's also only beginning. They have tried to hide the truth about what happened on 9/11 and they have tried to hide the truth about what is happening in Iraq, but these truths are slowly seeping out anyway. This makes them very unhappy and therefore very dangerous.

In addition, they are hiding many other unpleasant truths, and making up all kinds of other stories, hoping to keep us in the dark about virtually everything.

They have even been bribing so-called journalists because that's the only way they can get any support for their thoroughly evil policies. But now that truth is coming out, too.

The people at the root of this problem have political and military power, but no morals. In other words, they can destroy whatever they choose to destroy, but they cannot create anything worthwhile.

These are big problems. Those who oppose this administration need to be much more dedicated and focussed than the comments on this thread would indicate. And that includes me.

Paul feels so compelled by his beliefs that he thinks everyone should accept them just as he has. Paul has embraced oppression. Just how much oppression do you think Paul would apply to get everyone to believe just like him?

The modern equation is that fundamentalism plus evangelism equals increasing pressure to oppress more sections of society. Notice that Paul is not even speaking his own thoughts but the basic fundamentalist line. If Paul was secure in his own belief he would never have to say another word unless asked. However, Paul is not that secure: he is a proslytizer as evident by his statements and coded catch phrases.

Paul is someone else's tool. He will tell you he is a tool of God. But he's not; he is a tool of someone else's power. This agenda not only comes from the Bush WH, but from corporate quarters, too. But it is about men and about power, not God.

The fundamentalists act out of fear, both institutional and fear of the future. The Bush WH and the corporate powers take advantage of it for their own ends. The fundamentalist have made a big, big gamble but it will take a vast amount of oppression for them to win this gambit. They really are not in control of anything but an information stream, a propaganda machine and some media outlets. The corporate powers that be don't have God on the bottom line; hell, they don't even have human values; they'll cast the fundamentalist away. And so will the Bush WH if the need arises.

I'm certainly not a prophet, nor in my wildest dreams would I aspire to be. But I have seen and continue to see this clearly.

Next, communal gardens are not communism. Across America small communities come together for many reasons, from infrastructure to school events to community projects. This is properly communalism and draws on those willing to help in whatever way they can. It's a process, not an ideology. It is common as dirt and has been around for centuries.

Whether someone is protesting In God We Trust or anyother such thing, they are Americans. And we stand up for Americans. They have the right - and obviously the gumption and bravery - to speak their piece just like you, Paul. I stand up for Americans, even weird fuckers like you. It's amazing isn't it.

Jefferson was a Deist and no freeper has a digital cluebat big enough to pound what that means into his or her pointy little head. He didn't believe in revealed religions. Period. Atheists will believe in God when you show them proof. One thing a "believer" will never believe is that there is no God, even in the face of a credible proof of the truth of that statement. Fortunately for them, formal logic makes it all but impossible to prove a negative. They are the O.J. jury of religious dogma. I am a gnostic Deist, like Jefferson. He knew there was a Creator that made the individual timepieces and moved on to the next creations, ad infinitum. He wasn't into micro management of his creations. I used to be an agnostic, but when they discovered a living ceolacanth in 1938, a prehistoric fish that supposedly went extinct millions of years ago, I realized that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. To put it in a language a freeper could relate to: He just doesn't give a damn about you, and neither do I.

Paul, and other mentally challenged folks, like freepers and other "evangelists", be they christians or libertarians or neocons, often like to pick out "quotes" from history to show off their "bumper sticker" brains. They are cute, worth a buck in today's economy and have little or no probative value with respect to any point they are intended to illustrate or support, so far removed from their original time and context. They are poor substitutes for cogent arguments. I have a quote for you, Paul, fresh from the horse's ass, so to speak.

"The tsunami was a wonderful opportunity for us."

Dr. Condoleeza Rice during her Senate confirmation hearing for Sec. of State, 1/18/05.

So was 9/11, but at least they didn't call it "a wonderful opportunity" in public, or at a Senate confirmation hearing, for God's sake, and mean it literally. But now you have the proof what they were really thinking back then. What context could possibly justify this remark or the mindset that rationalizes the misfortunes of others as "a wonderful opportunity" for anyone? No further proof that obsessive, dogmatic religiosity, (any revealed religion), combined with any obsessive, dogmatic ideology, in this case a neocon ideology, can impair higher order cognitive functioning will ever be required.

Has anyone sent any info yet to the organization(s) that observed our election? I taped their comments afterward & I was struck by how clueless they seemed to be re the possibility that it had been hacked long before the fact & therefore mere observation on election day was probably beside the point!
I have been composing my letter to them; but people like winter patriot & Brad & Freebird, who have much more relevant info at their disposal & in their impressive little (ha!) brains than I, hopefully will be or have already initiated contact with them.
I also intend to write yet again to Congressman Conyers requesting the same of him.
winter patriot~what else should I be doing? Advise me, my friend.

I think you should do anything that seems like it might help. Don't assume anyone has done anything. If there is a duplication of effort, so be it. That makes the message stronger and more compelling.

I think you should publicize John Conyers' site as much as you can. He has a great page of links to stories about the electoral fraud, if I remember correctly. VR also has an excellent page of such links. There are other sites too ...

But unfortunately, I cannot remember what they are. My main computer has recently crashed. That's where I had been collecting links. I am trying to get it all back but it might take a while. So now I am working from memory. And my memory is not what it once was. So I'm sorry but I cannot give you anything more specific --- maybe in another few days.

But in the meantime, there are certainly many other Brad Blog readers who can help with this question, and I hope we will hear from some of them soon.

> the presidential election was clearly stolen, and that makes two in a row.

Winter Soldier would have a point if it were true.

> If Paul was secure in his own belief he would never have to say another word unless asked

This blog was about me so I can say whatever I want. I am secure, I just like to jack with you leftists!

> They are cute, worth a buck in today's economy and have little or no probative value with respect to any point they are intended to illustrate or support, so far removed from their original time and context.

Look at the Federalist papers for original intent. Perhaps you are so far removed from the original time and context! Thomas Jefferson was not the only Founding Father! Go back and read them again! It is the same with WMDs. Clinton, Gore, Boxer, Hillary, Kerry, the UN, all said that Saddam had WMDs and that we need to do something about it. They said it under Clinton, and they said it in 2002 and 2003. But no, somehow only Bush is to blame! Wait a second, a word is coming to me, oh yeah, HYPOCRITS!!!!!!!

It is the same with WMDs. Clinton, Gore, Boxer, Hillary, Kerry, the UN, all said that Saddam had WMDs and that we need to do something about it. They said it under Clinton, and they said it in 2002 and 2003. But no, somehow only Bush is to blame!

Didn't you read the previous post where I already told you Freepers to save you breath on that?

Of course only Bush is to blame! Only Bush was dumb enough to go to war over non-existant WMD's! It's one thing to talk about it, to rally your political allies around something. And it's quite another thing to go to WAR over it, and kill 100,000+ in the process.

Only Bush was dumb enough to do that. And only you, and a few other uninformed chumps were dumb enough to vote for him again.

There's lot's I could say about Paul's comment #37 directed toward my comment #29.
I do hope, Paul, that you and ALL of your like-minded friends insist on wearing a condom, maybe even two, when you have sex. This would help reduce the incidents of unwanted pregnancy. Good Idea, don't ya think?That way you would be doing your part in reducing abortion, which is what all of us really hope for.
Oh, and I am against slavery. I am intensely baffled by the fact that at one point in history, African-Americans couldn't use the same bathrooms or water fountains as white people. It's hard to believe that that is fact and not fiction. What an odd, odd place we all come from.

And finally, I don't think I ever said I hated George Bush. I dislike him passionately. Actually, I do hate him. I said I believed in being kind to people and accepting those who are different, or have made hard choices that affect THEIR life. I never said I believed in being a doormat.

"That's great Becky but your good works alone won't get you into Heaven."

So now I guess you are saying that you know what will and will not get people into heaven. Could you pull some excerpts from some place to back up your theories. Perhaps you know people who have already been there.

Great job Brad,but could you have written that(Winter Patriot] if you hadn't Toked up,just love your picture of you breaking the law,do you have any other pictures,with you perhaps,smoking a crack pipe?or inserting a needle in your arm,you really should change up differnt pictures every week,you might get,crack heads one week,pot heads the next,in any event it is a great touch,let me say you are really cool,and i want to be just like you Brad,when i grow up.