He's a solid off spinner isn't he? But he was yapped up like the second Laker on here for a couple of years.

Australia is a terribad place for offies in general. I don think he's bowled badly this series, but there's been an obvious plan to get after him which has largely worked and has effected England's plans pretty badly, because he hadn't been able to bowl those long, tight spells which build pressure for other bowlers.

Assuming England weather the early stuff from Australia, I expect them to go after Lyon in a similar way this test.

No Burgey he was yapped up because he was the first good spinner we had had since Underwood. We went OTT simply for the novelty value.

To be fair to him he has had a great career for a late starter and he may well have had 400+ test wickets by now if Fletcher wasn't such a pigheaded barsteward. His elbow injury might bring his career to an end (probably after the world cup) but nobody mentioned it in the summer when he was tearing the Aussies a new one.

No Burgey he was yapped up because he was the first good spinner we had had since Underwood. We went OTT simply for the novelty value.

To be fair to him he has had a great career for a late starter and he may well have had 400+ test wickets by now if Fletcher wasn't such a pigheaded barsteward. His elbow injury might bring his career to an end (probably after the world cup) but nobody mentioned it in the summer when he was tearing the Aussies a new one.

lol

The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament.

Yeah I wouldn't go that far. That certainly happened at Lord's - assisted in no small measure by the bats - but other than that I think his only really big haul was at OT and I dunno how much credence you want to put on that as an example of "running through a side".

Burgey's right though. He hasn't bowled badly, he's just been treated about as disdainfully as any other visiting offie.

No Burgey he was yapped up because he was the first good spinner we had had since Underwood. We went OTT simply for the novelty value.

To be fair to him he has had a great career for a late starter and he may well have had 400+ test wickets by now if Fletcher wasn't such a pigheaded barsteward. His elbow injury might bring his career to an end (probably after the world cup) but nobody mentioned it in the summer when he was tearing the Aussies a new one.

Yeah, those 40+ wickets he took to singlehandedly win England the series were astonishing...

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No Burgey he was yapped up because he was the first good spinner we had had since Underwood. We went OTT simply for the novelty value.

Yeah, I think there's a lot of distain from some Aussies towards how certain English players are perceived by their own, i.e. overhyped, but I think it's pretty understandable given the respective sides in the last ten/twenty years. England have a lot of players who are the best they've had for a long time, while for the Aussies they're inferior to their own equivalents from merely six or seven years ago, so the English are always going to view their players higher than most Australians view the same players.

Yeah, I think there's a lot of distain from some Aussies towards how certain English players are perceived by their own, i.e. overhyped, but I think it's pretty understandable given the respective sides in the last ten/twenty years. England have a lot of players who are the best they've had for a long time, while for the Aussies they're inferior to their own equivalents from merely six or seven years ago, so the English are always going to view their players higher than most Australians view the same players.

Yeah, fair enough. I know I seem to feel that England go a little OTT wrt their own players (except for Ian Bell).

Swann's a thoroughly decent bowler been allowed to bowl above and beyond his actual station by ****house batsmen for far too long. Same as Anderson, really. No slight against either but their supporters, especially Anderson's, have been some of the most annoying posters on the web.

I'm not sure what more we should be expecting from a finger spinner in England.

Agree with this totally, and yes he is being rested for this series, he's miles better than any other spinner we have.

The elbow problems clearly remain he has had many ops on it taking many fragments out of his arm, sorry Benchmark, but to suggest it's just an excuse when he's bowling badly is clearly nonsense, the guy has real problems with injury. He needs rest and thankfully he'll get it after this series

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Never have I said that he hasn't had elbow issues in the last.

The reason for him not being effective in Australia this time around is the same reason he hasn't been effective in Australia the other games he's played in Australia, and I'll give you a tip: it's not because he has a sore elbow.