Pretty much this.... in q3 you have the option to play slow/passive/defensive or aggressive. Now in ql if you play +forward vs someone around your level you will most likely lose. All players that played aggressive at early ql days now migrate to more caution/def style (strenx,dahang,cypher,etc.).

A lot of talk about the boring games last weekend. I think bringing PK back will result in more action, and not as many shitty 10-minute games where everybody spams and peekrails each other the whole time because the game is so fucking bad.

Tbh, they are right in using devpicks for no-gravity-insta-ctf-jetpack-atomic-spaceship-godmode-CA, because that's what many if not most casual players want (excessive+ anyone?).
If they used them to test this kind of subtle tweaks (well, ok, no footsteps isn't really a small change, but it's still a masterpiece of subtlety compared to the ridiculous shit that's on devpicks servers usually), most of the "hadcore" community they'd be aimed at wouldn't give a shit anyway, and even if they did, what kind of feedback do you think id would get?
Would you post your impressions on that cesspool of a forum amidst all the inarticulate whine and terrible trolling? Do you think ql devs even try to read that forum?

You'd probably see the same amount of +backing though, if both don't want to commit they won't.

I think we saw those kind of scores (0-0) because those maps have been so overplayed, there's definitely less chance for surprises as opposed to using newer maps. If we used new maps, I seriously doubt we would have 0-0 scores on them.

Also I think the games were really nice, regardless of score. I love watching Agent vs Cooller play ztn and go into OT with 0-0. It's really nice play, and I think the factor of score should only dictate the winner. Who cares if it's 0-0 or 1-1? If it's exciting, it's exciting.

I'm not opposed to this, but I rather keep it the way it is now. The game already allows for sloppy play as opposed to VQ3, so I don't think we need to add another variable that rewards dumb play/sloppiness.

Basically, I don't think removing footsteps would solve the issue. It won't end with stuff like this. Oh, now that we have removed footsteps, we want instant weapon switch, so the game is faster. Now we want air control so the game is faster, etc etc. Not saying you're trying to turn this game into CPM, but I'm sure you understand. "Nothing is ever good enough" ideology.

10 years of CPMAish dm6 haven't made it even close to what we could see.
Rapha Cypher dm13 wasn't entertaining at all, it felt like they're too scared to look over a corner. Same for avek cooller etc etc

I guess it's the thing that most vq3ers wanted so badly, punishing for mistakes.

You're right. The things that would fix this are the things some players on here would complain about. Fast movement/ fast weapon which would be too "forgiving" and this is of course the logical conclusion of gameplay that is built around punishing for positioning/weapon selection mistakes.

This is what it looks like when you can't make a single mistake without it costing you the game.
Are you not entertained?

You have to consider there even are people who watch chess, where it can take minutes until any movement at all. And you need that time, exactly because it is so very easy to make a mistake that loses a game.

So, when some people demand a duel game that rewards "brain" more than aim they shouldn't be surprised if it goes more in the direction of chess: more thinking less movement.

Chess becomes LESS strategic as you approach the higher levels of play, even without a timer. There's simply no value for planning very far ahead when both players are doing it, which was the purpose of adding the timer to chess to begin with. Grandmasters have been playing high-level chess as a game of tactics for decades.

You again have nothing to contribute on the actual topic and as usual try to draw attention away from it.

And as always, you sub-par logic doesn't let you realize that it is possible for one perso to play *gasp* more than one type of chess competitively.

Somewhat more difficult to understand, and probably too difficult for you, is that my statement in parenthesis merely clarified that I "only" played a grandmaster in Chinese chess.
If I hadn't someone dimwitted, i.e., you, would have jumped on it and said "but you claimed you played a gm in international chess".

Unfortunately for you, I didn't omit that so now you had to go full retard :(((

Anyhow the lack of footsteps isn't what makes the aggressor the favorite in CPM. It's the aircontrol. You can fool yourself with weapon balance(hey jum8o), footsteps, maps and whatever else you can think of but as long as you can only rush in a straight line you won't see aggressive plays all but once in a full moon.

you're referring to a game similar to the playoffs, a do or die situation where players could have gotten knocked out. Something i paid close attention too in my above post. The rest of your points are fair though, but i was kinda linking jumping around to air control too when i specifically mentioned cpm, as the lack of footsteps really make no impact in most situations considering you can jump around at 9000mph.

Hehe, you are ever so right.. I can only laugh at 0-0 games like these. :o)

Faster weaponswitch, removed footsteps and aircontrol would have at least made it more entertaining, since that allows for more comebacks. I always loved how in cpm, with one minute remaining and a lead of 2-3 frags, you are not even close to safe, where in QL for any pro, this is a solid win.

There's no objective reason for a "wrong weapon for the wrong time" to even exist unless you wan't to even out the playing field by eliminating one person's edge over another i.e. reaction speed. And aircontrol does not mean you get less of an advantage for having the better position, it means you have less of an advantage if your aim is shit and/or your opponent's dodging is not, as it should be.

No, let's dumb the game down enough so we can discourage any creative play on the micro level and make it about getting the first frag and then "not making any mistakes". And by "making mistakes" I mean pressing +forward.

If the out of control player would have an opportunity to deal more damage, control would shift faster. Note that if 2 rockets would almost kill a fully stacked player, ambushes would pay off much more.

Anyways, it's possible to read into this both ways. I'd like to see how it would play out in practice.

RL needs to be nerfed, indeed. Camp rockets ftw right now. Long range weapons(hello rail,machinegun), are too weak to deal serious dmg on someone that runs... before it was one thing to eat rail while you camp teleport on ztn, now it's not that big of a deal(don't forget armor don't protect 66% like in q3,but 80). MG isn't accurate enough long range(hi smaller hitbox) and it's dmg is low too. When I think about it, they nerfed EVERY weapon except rocket launcher(not only they didn't nerf it, they buff it). GCG(new end game acronym: Good Camping Game). I am not good at explaining and impressing myself, but I just want you all to know that I feel the same way as you do, and when NNN people feels something is wrong, it's just wrong.

Isn't crouch sliding the worst of both worlds? It gives the arguably negative level shrinkage and geometry importance reduction of bunny hopping but it also, by tying you to the ground, doesn't offer the offensive potential positive of bunny hopping that's relevant to the excessive defensiveness of QL.

No, back in Q4 1.3, it was actually really balanced. Obviously, you just really fucking sucked at it. In fact, this is probably what happened when you tried it:

(ix tries Q4, binds movement keys to ESDF)
Hurp durp, let's take time out of my busy CPM playing schedule to play a game other than Q3
(ix tries to crouch slide to the left, but his dumb ass is only holding S and not E as well)
HURRRR DURRRR THIS GAME IS BAD

Well, for me, I'm actually pretty well-educated on a lot of different things that make for good topics to discuss, and I'm natural at keeping a conversation, so all I have to do is be myself and things work out. But in your case, I'd just make sure your dick doesn't shrivel up and fall off from spending too much time gaming in the basement, so that when you get out there into the real world, you can actually come off as some sort of projection of a man, even while in desperation, you take a page from your hero Fatal1ty and ask these girls if they want to watch your CTF demos as a way to get to know them better. Girls are usually into masculinity, after all, and that's the main thing to focus on regardless of your interests, really.

I can see just by what you're writing you seem to be a fantastic storyteller as well, all of this must help a lot as it's clear you're a ladiesm'n. Thanks for the advice about my penis dropping off from spending too much time gaming in the basement, that was a good'un.

I've gotta admit I actually did give imagining a conversation with you a go and you didn't disappoint! Keep up the good work

I think he's running low on inspiration for new material, maybe you should meet him for coffee one day. Not because your lame attempts at ORIGINAL jokes are funny or anything, but rather, because your very presence would get his creative juices flowing again, what with your gayness and absurdly high ego and all.

Good job with the gayness remark and claiming I have a really high ego, remember when I just compared myself to one of the best stand-up comedians in the world? Another advent original right there, god talk about epic fail ¬¬ fuckin' gweilo

Hehe, I was just thinking about louis ck, you know that bit in "hilarious", where hes talking about the two men talking about bullshit behind him, and he just wants them to get down on the floor and start sucking each others dicks, but in a really awkward way? I was thinking thats what I want you and liam to do. So it was quite funny when you mentioned him, at least, to me it was.
4:30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3l0pu_KCh8

I don't think any amount of footstep changes will make a high pressure DM13 game more entertaining to watch for a casual spectator.

No footsteps works in CPM because jumping is so much faster than running. In QL/VQ3, that difference is bigger and you might find that taking footsteps off running made people strafe jump less. Making footsteps quiet doesn't seem like it'd have any effect: if you are walking, it's because you are hiding from each other, so you are unlikely to know whether or not they are 'far enough away to not hear'.

Another option would be to have the default footstep noises disabled, but keep the 'wood' and 'metal' footstep noises. That would put the decision in the hands of the map designer.

Coming back to DM13 though, it's interesting to wonder what it would take to make it more entertaining to watch without spoiling the 'brain game'. If you break down the issue into pieces, it probably comes down to a few things:
- Size of the map and speed which you can navigate it. It's big, and there are fairly limited routes around.
- Volume and spread of pickups. There's a ton of armour, it's hard to deny your opponent to the extent that they can't tool back up. At every confrontation, players have the option of falling back to recover because there's very little risk of being locked out.
- Risk/reward on the major items. The most exposed item is the RL which makes for a very interesting meta game, but most of the other items are fairly sheltered. Mega is certainly dangerous (but often just as risky for the attacker?) and RA to some extent although players seem quite adept at avoiding taking a lot of damage.

Silent running goes both ways- if you're right about what's going on you have more defensive potential, if you're wrong you'll be in more trouble so I think it's exactly what the game needs, it increases the potential error margin in top level play. Errors would allow more contact because otherwise optimal play at the highest level should be as controlling and low risk as possible.

Footsteps aren't the problem. Doubt they would make games any faster. The problem lies with people not wanting to commit to a battle for fear of the defending player often able to deal more damage.

The narrow hallways and uber rocket launcher is where QL is being slowed down at the moment. People have caught onto it now. If you played DM6 +foward would probably reign supreme simply because it's such an open map.

I remember specing czm when he was first starting to play again and he was still playing Q3 style. Might have even made a post about it ages ago. There was one game where he was playing ZTN against some other mid-tier US player. He was +forwarding at the 50hp bubble to the other guy who was just placing his +back rockets and obliterating czm. CZM would still get the frag but it'd be so worthless since he'd be so low health. The bit that made me laugh even more was when the game was over, the other guy called czm a 'noob lucky retard' for pushing the corridors with LG against +back rockets and getting frags off it.

There was a discussion later on in the server when ZeRo4 joined and they were talking about ways to speed up the game. Footstep removal and even timer removal was discussed. Of course, czm and Z4 said that if the timer was removed, they would literally put a clock on their keyboard to time items. The footstep removal czm was pretty adamant about but I just don't see it making a difference.

I'd go so far as to say that removing footsteps might even just help the out of control person more. They'd be able to do more ninja damage on big items and get around the map faster. The person in control being able to move faster pretty much nullifies any advantage either of them has, so it's no difference really. That said, I don't play duel, so what the fuck do I know anyway

TL;DR? - It's the rocket launcher which needs to be sorted imo. Faster rockets and the splash with tighter corridors and arches make defensive play more effective. Also, 10 minute games mean that you get punished for taking risks.

Timing items is one of the beauties of quake though. If you're out of control you can get a timing on one of the big items and muscle your way into the map. If it's random, then you might as well +forward till you get lucky and hit a major item

For me a match like Cypher Cooller on DM13 at Quakecon is the ultimate in a skillful game. Cooller's timing and map dominance and Cypher's out of control play made that match awesome, not the frags

I also thinked of that, this would focus game less around picking the fucking item and more about fighting.
Its nice to see SOME smart play, but this is supposed to be fast paced action shooter and I wanna see ALOT more frags thats standard now or at least gameplay that rewards +f style at least as much as it does +b.

don't really understand why people keep discussing that kind of stuff 2 years after open beta and 9 months after " release "
I find it hilarious how everybody wanted the game to be a slightly modernized version of vq3 2 years ago and now it's like they want something q4ish back in town powered by idtech3, which would have been a great idea, 2 years ago, I don't even think people would have whined as much as they'd do now if it had been done before introducing bloodrun and the other oldschool maps.

NO! Footsteps many times help the one who is attacking. It is one of the tools against +back. The problem is elsewhere. Even if u know where the other is, it is hard to approach and attack him, mainly because of the rockets.

So, all long range options to deal dmg are nerfed, witch leads to more trouble killing someone that runs--->more caution to not die, because you will comeback harder(tl10 doesn't help either)--->more peak shot/def games.

RL is buffed so you can deal more spam dmg, and with the bouncing effect you can more easily stop someone rushing at you and hit him with good second +back rocket.

Another thing that can be tried is a powerup which gives you cpm (or q4) movement and maybe instant weap switch for 30 secs, would be an interesting twist to duel (and/or ffa/tdm). As a devpick anyway (even if it sounds good it could be terrible in practice).

The maps are the main issue, they are pretty good but old (and thus extremely well known). They also allow players to avoid each other quite easily.

For example in Q4 you had monsoon, phrantic, placebo effect - so you saw a lot of agressive fast games. If q4 was played on larger maps all of a sudden the games became slower. The movement and weap changes can only make up for so much.

Ah right, makes sense now. Actually I (sort of) take it back... I think function9's idea is better. The bouncing around thing could be tweaked so that you can only make people bounce if you get it in a small radius around the feet, and outside of that the bounce is reduced by a lot. I'm not sure 900 ups would make a big difference. Then again maybe both ideas together would be nice.

Rocket speed I don't mind so much, what does bother me a lot about rockets is even when you dodge and take minimal damage you're still probably going to be bounced around like a fucking piñata. Seems incredibly easy to bounce someone around with rockets in quakelive compared to q3.

Sure, if you land a rocket at someone's feet I'd expect them to go flying, but not when they're at the edge of the splash radius and took maybe 10hp.

Funny how in rapha's interviews he says that the movement changes have made the game faster yet all the games were significantly slower. Maybe the pro players aren't yet sure what implications the chain jump has for the whole game?

Like Swelt/Bst said I think the maps really have a significant part to play in why the games are so slow. Games on Hektik and Aerowalk are still very interesting and exciting to watch.

It seems to me that players play slow because if they're caught off guard with the wrong weapon out or in a bad position they will receive significant amounts of damage before they have time to return damage or get away. So players only want to make "moves" on other players when they feel they either have to or that they have some situational advantage. Maybe some slight tweaks like:

--slightly faster weapon change
--slightly faster player movement (by introducing a very small amount of air control or some other means)
--slightly damped footsteps
--slightly increase occfactor (so that sounds can be slightly heard through walls)

Maybe this will lead to a slightly more "forgiving" game for those moments where the most "marginal mistakes can cost you the game". I know that "forgiving" sounds distasteful but it means that both players can take little more risk with only a little less consequence. I think some minor change in player movement (only minor; nothing approaching CPM) might give new life to QL movement/gameplay. Ramp jumping looks promising (though not many maps utilize it).

i dont even think we need to go as far as having air-control even. its mostly a combination of a variety of factors all mentioned here. but fixing rockets (less splash radius, less speed), no walk sounds, and maybe slightly faster movement (still think a fixed ramp jump system would be enough PROVIDED good maps are designed specifically for that movement system in mind which forces people to make movement a skill that needs to be learnt).

the other thing is ammo. having practically limitless rocket ammo all the time is a large part of what makes the +back rocket game so viable. ammo needs to be tightened up a lot. perhaps less ammo per weapon pickup along with less gain per pickup with weapons u already have (cpm style).

lol, okay, go ahead and tell me I didn't play a game that I bought back in 2003 when UT2003 was the latest game, and even though I bought the CE of UT2004 the first day it came out. Not to mention I played UT99 since 2001 before that, and have pretty much been a fan of the UT series for a decade. Oh hey, look, my copy of UT3 is sitting in my box of games in my closet, too! But hey, I must know nothing about a series that I played half to death growing up, right? You obviously know more about it than I do, even though you haven't explained worth a shit about why I'm wrong and have just said:

I never once twisted around anything. This is exactly what you're doing. I stayed calm and didn't rage at you or anything. You are the one that decided to do so. If anything you are the retard.

I asked what wall dodging was, you never answered me. The only time I mention UT in my posts, is when I asked how it's similar to Warsow.

Stop being a fucking hypocrite. If you are going to argue a topic with me, don't just call me a retard, because that's what you're acting like. Now if you're going to reply, please answer the original questions:

Yeah, that totally doesn't warrant me ridiculing your dumb ass when I was being respectful. If you're going to be a baby and think I'm being an asshole 'cause I used the word "nerdnitpick," well, you're retarded then

At the time I think it was lack of maps in quakelive that made dm13 a [somewhat] viable option. I guess it's easier to convince people what was once old and shit is new and exciting than it is to have something completely new in place from the start.

Yeah quakelive was/is a test-bed, but someone was really off the mark thinking they could have q3 launch from a browser with only the original q3a maps and it would be a smash hit.

Footsteps don't seem to be the problem to me.
Remember 2008 ESWC Q3 tour. Some whined about too much +back even then but compared to now the mix of +forward and +back was pretty even. So what has changed (maps and movement are still mostly the same):

Weapons are 20 % weaker, making armors 20% more valuable.

QL ammo system turns the game into CA with items.

Timelimit 10 instead of 15.

Force-spawning instead of Q3 spawns where you have to run them (= +forward).

Overall QL is more forgiving which means that having an positional or other advantage does not pay off enough.

Remember rapha's last minute attack camping on upper LG exit on dm13 against strenx. In QL this attack failed, in Q3 it would have worked 100% imo.

Not that I dislike low scoring tactical games, but pls not all the time:P

Plasma was nefed(smaller hitbox). Besides, quake was aways high dmg output game. Quake 1 = die too fast / not good for casual spectator. Quake 2 = still die somewhat fast. Quake 3 same(tho with every quake they nerfed dmg output a bit). id tried to balance it (dmg/spectator friendly) with ql, but for me they just over do it.

Maybe not about the footsteps, but movement overall. When I am watching demos/playing in ql and cpma/vq3 (ye ye, still installed:d), I am noticing some differences in strafe jumping. For example take a look on cypher's movement in cpma/vq3, he was so fast after few jumps, then I watched his random demo in ql and his moving seemed slow to me. I have asked this question before but nobody answered me - are there any differences in strafe jumping between these games? I mean jumps height or sth else?

The fixed 85 FPS physics of CPMA/VQ3 (with increased jump height tho), if executed properly, fits the maps perfectly since the maps were made with that physics in mind, maybe that's the cause of this impression.
OSP and QL physics however (OSP because of rounding error, QL because of OMG_Make_it_easy), though wider and faster jumps in themselves, don't fit that well (overjumping/crashing into the wall if going for max speed). At least that's how I understand it.

I dont understand whats going on here. Playing defensive doesnt make the game boring for me. Players still exchange damage and item control which makes for very dynamic games at high level. Im not against removing footsteps as it also favours defensive play in some ways.

I'd say it's more of a map problem at this point. Weaps seems fairly balanced. Is the +b thing even a problem in other modes than duel?

Lost track, but for example, is t7 considered too RL heavy? ZTN and dm13 just have so many corridors to run through and so much hp/armor to pick up when on the run. I like both maps a lot but chasing on them sux.

I called you Maximus Decimus Meridius, Commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife.

And i'm pretty sure you will have your vengeance.. in this life or the next.

I know I enjoyed 2009 tourneys more than 2010/2011. Faster action was in place. Maybe reducing so much hit boxes wasn't good idea,because this nefed mainly other hitscan weapons, not that much rocket launcher with was buffed in first place, and lead to even more powerfull RL, dunno. Lets take a look at agent---> he use fov 120, he have bad hitscan(rail,lg), but he have good rockets and good +back... he compete with best players. My point is he moved to 120 fov just for better rockets/awareness, because he saw that its much better to have good rl than railgun,lg(for his style).

On t7 you could have a green armour in the mega room just to force more fights for armour.

On dm13 you could have a green armour in the lg room to force more confrontation (although map might become quite unbalanced out of control) or try one green armour in the center of the map so the player in control needs to attack top ya more.

On ztn have a green armour down by lower tele to stop the running game.

Pretty drastic changes i know, but it would definitely give more chances to attack and a greater need to engage.

That's just going to encourage much less attacking and much more peekrails. 80dmg rail would actually be as powerful as 100dmg rail is with a normal armour/MH layout because there's less shit lying around for people to health up on. With that said, this is a terrible idea when you think about it.

I do appreciate the effort on this one, though. However, you aren't accounting for the fact that most Quakers play like total pussies.

to be honest this seems to be one of the best ideas so far, right after nerfing RL to what it was in q3.

Some of the yellow armors need to be changed to be green instead. Atleast following ones, dm13 lg ya, ztn rl ya. In maps like aerowalk, hektik and t7 I dont see armor setup making games more passive, it just the little too powerful rockets.

Faster weapon switch. Weapon combos are pretty fun. I don't think weapon switch should be instant, but faster than now would be more fun.

Remove or reduce the armor / health decay. This decay was originally put into Q3 to encourage aggressive play, but I think the unintended consequence is players spend a more time recouping items than they would otherwise. If you have more armor you have more freedom in how you choose to play.

not really when it mostly hurts the player in control since health / armor wont decay after its lower than 100.... Which leads to the fact that nowadays fights between player in control and player in off control are like 170 / 170 vs 100 / 180. If health decay would be removed controlling MH would be more precious making controlling player have more advantage over player off control, making it possible to be more aggressive.

That may be postive in a tie or a situation where the controlling player is behind, but the problem is this:

Once the controlling player takes the lead and has a 200/200 stack he has no incentive at all to move (except maybe to hear timings for later).
So he could just go to an easily defendable room, stay there and wait for the other player to get 200/200 and attack. As people, including you, have written countless times, the player defending a spot has the advantage so he will most likely get another frag.

ehh, dont you understand that if they dont "control" player out of control they will lose contro

I don't?
Gee, I wonder why I wrote, "wait for the other player to get 200/200 and attack".
Maybe because that will be no problem?
Please try to read more carefully before saying people don't understand something...

If they dont pick MH and RA they wont stay in control and will get raped....

Is that really so?

The player has 200/200, his opponent who then gains control cannot possibly get more than that, but he is that one that has to attack.

Or are you, of all people, trying to tell me being in the defensive position in a fight with equal stacks puts you at a disadvantage?

sure. But I only said that he has to wait until the attack (granted I also said he will get a frag, while that is not necessarily true).
After the attack he can move again, and since according you repeated posts in other threads, he should have considerable stack advantage is more likely to bully opponent from the items. Get back to 200/200, rinse, repeat.

How is this more entertaining/aggressive than having to move towards locations because your health and armor keeps ticking down?

you seem to be too stubborn to let it go though you know even urself that you are wrong, so whatever man. I dont care a shit if u dont understand game the sameway as i do, but for fucks sake dont come telling me that i am wrong.

I don't think that's a good idea for QL, because in the CQ3 games I played with tiered armors it was almost impossible to break control. To the point of just not being fun. Tiered armors were just too strong without making the movement or weapons more powerful too.

Tiered armors would also start to really screw up other modes. Particularly in ctf, flad d becomes much harder to kill.

This whole discussion about how to make the game more fast paced is pretty pointless since the solution is so obvious: buff weapon damage.

I'm not the first person to say it but the most significant change from cpma/vq3 to ql was the weapons being nerfed (except the rl). Might I add that a lot of this is due to ql's poorer netcoding/smaller hit-boxes.

I mean look at how q3's weapon damage has changed over the years and it's correlation to the average amount of frags/damage dealt per a game:

If we want faster paced games with more frags all thats needed is too make weapons stronger. IMO it does not remove skill from the game and also allows for a wider range of playing styles. Buffing just the rl while nerfing all the other weapons is obviously the main reason why ql is so campy and +back in it's current state. I

Whenever I watch a CQ3 demo every fight looks so devastating..if you get railed you're like "FUCK" where as in QL you get railed and you just think "damn..." LOL Very shitty way of describing what I mean but..whatever.

Also I think because of the high damage weapons, people were more willing to take risks such as trapping stacked players in certain situations cause they knew they'd do a shit ton of damage even if they died..where as in QL you are a majority of the time guaranteed to give as much damage as you receive so the person with the better stack 90% of the time wins.

I don't understand why people say slow paced games are boring. I found the final of IEM very entertaining.

I saw a very tactical game between 2 players who respect each other's skills and knew that every wrong move could be the end for them. I'd rather watch that kind of game than the constant bunny hoping around the map of cpm.

Very funny how there's a new thread every week with suggestions to make QL a better game. Most of the time the suggestions are there to make QL closer to a previous episode of Quake. If you weren't such sheeps, you'd have sticked to the game you liked in the first place and kept it popular and visible for sponsors.

erm, I play and watch Quake expecting fast paced and intense action along with smooth movements, otherwise I'd just watch CS/CoD or w/e.

I believe most quakers are kinda like me hence the number of threads about it (since yes, QL is far slower and punishes agressive play severely)
What I like about CPMA in particular is how both defensive and agressive play work perfectly fine so you can actually pick your poison and are not forced to use a passive playstyle like in QL. Plus the way you move around the map in CPM is soooo smooth <3

While this is true, CPMA also allowed players to be as successful with an aggressive style. Playing 1v1 against Vo0 was fucking terrifying, as soon as he got the advantage he'd fly round the map like a crazy motherfucker and never let you settle into the game; it was awesome.

rat played a defensive style? Really? I admit I haven't watched a rat demo in a long time, but frankly I remember being amazed at how much he'd push his advantage while in control instead of playing it safe and falling back on an armor or mega. Guess he was very good at choosing situations when to be aggressive but when to be not aggrressive :)

the last matches between top duel players showed us the game is just too passive.
0-0 at the 18 min mark is just not acceptable, and the reason why it happens is nowadays top players think it's more rewarding to stay safe than to take very small risks. It's like screw ups matter more than taking chances.

I really appreciate slow and tactic games, but I also understand there should be a place for people that like the opposite. Because of this my opinion is that map pools should consider both, so dm13 should still be there (hopefully with some change to rockets so I don't have to see another 0-0 match like that one at iem finals) but aerowalk should have different respawns so there are more frags.

on the other hand ql's development shows how id has 0 interest in quake live, therefore 0 competent people thinking about it. That's why I prefer weapon balance to stay the same than they messing up with it (check shotgun changes, just to be reversed next patch)

If they increase hit-boxes by 10% and remove footsteps this is going to be totally new game. I don't think I would like it, becouse it would be even more all lg. Everyone hitting 50%+ easily. I think they should adjust weapons also if they change something