Wilbur is an idiot. Parcells should NEVER be allowed with a mile of the Patriot HOF. He didn't shop for the groceries so the Brady argument is nonsense. Also, he not only negotiated with the Jets while he should have been preparing for the superbowl, he also did his best to tank the game. Punting late in the 4th quarter when down by more than a touchdown? Puuuuhhhhlllleeeeeeasssseee!

Wilbur also said that without Parcells there is no Brady. Since the 1996 season was Parcells' last year as coach here, and Brady's rookie season was 2000, how does he figure that out? One thing he did say is that without Parcells there would be no Belichek here. OK, we have Belicheck because he didn't want to coach the Jets with Parcells as GM. For that we should put the egoist in the Patriots HOF? Nonsense. He should NEVER get in. A couple of winning seasons does not make a HOF candidate.

Parcells was certainly instrumental in the Pats rebirth and modern success. Yes, at some point he must get in. This is objective fact.

But far be it from me to reject the right of any fan to explore their own opinions and dislikes! :)

What is objective fact? Is it "Parcells was certainly instrumental in the Pats rebirth and modern success" or is it "at some point he must get in". If the former, then I will admit that he had a turnaround, but so did the 1986 team. You can argue this point. If it is the latter, then that is your OPINION and certainly not "objective FACT".

The only objective FACT is that he negotiated with another team, our division rival no less, when he should have given total concentration to the superbowl.

Far be it for me to get between a man and his sports hate but I do think the big smelly Tuna IS responsible for the turnaround in this franchise's permanent fortunes. He was the principal designer of the franchise's hard nosed, no-nonsense approach to the game. The '86 team was largely the carryover creation of Fairbanks and could not sustain success after he left and Berry had his year in the spotlight. You will say it's my opinion but I'm quite willing to let others chime in with their opinions about whether it's the same as fact or merely just another opinion.

Parcells was certainly instrumental in the Pats rebirth and modern success. Yes, at some point he must get in. This is objective fact.

But far be it from me to reject the right of any fan to explore their own opinions and dislikes! :)

What is objective fact? Is it "Parcells was certainly instrumental in the Pats rebirth and modern success" or is it "at some point he must get in". If the former, then I will admit that he had a turnaround, but so did the 1986 team. You can argue this point. If it is the latter, then that is your OPINION and certainly not "objective FACT".

The only objective FACT is that he negotiated with another team, our division rival no less, when he should have given total concentration to the superbowl.

SLGDEV/sheldong/sheldonlg

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Listen we all hate the fact that he did that but he did bring in guys like:

Milloy, Law, McGinest, Bruschi, Johnson, Brown all of which without we might not be talking about SB's around here. He also took over from Dick and installed a sense of team, order, and a work ethic to get things done. He did as much for this team as any coach not named BB. We can be bitter about how it all ended as much as we want but lets not pretend he didn't start the rock rolling that eventually lead to our SB victories.

Listen we all hate the fact that he did that but he did bring in guys like:

Milloy, Law, McGinest, Bruschi, Johnson, Brown all of which without we might not be talking about SB's around here. He also took over from Dick and installed a sense of team, order, and a work ethic to get things done. He did as much for this team as any coach not named BB. We can be bitter about how it all ended as much as we want but lets not pretend he didn't start the rock rolling that eventually lead to our SB victories.

Not much of a Parcells fan but you certainly make valid points here PatsEng.

Parcells was certainly instrumental in the Pats rebirth and modern success. Yes, at some point he must get in. This is objective fact.

But far be it from me to reject the right of any fan to explore their own opinions and dislikes! :)

What is objective fact? Is it "Parcells was certainly instrumental in the Pats rebirth and modern success" or is it "at some point he must get in". If the former, then I will admit that he had a turnaround, but so did the 1986 team. You can argue this point. If it is the latter, then that is your OPINION and certainly not "objective FACT".

The only objective FACT is that he negotiated with another team, our division rival no less, when he should have given total concentration to the superbowl.

SLGDEV/sheldong/sheldonlg

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Listen we all hate the fact that he did that but he did bring in guys like:

Milloy, Law, McGinest, Bruschi, Johnson, Brown all of which without we might not be talking about SB's around here. He also took over from Dick and installed a sense of team, order, and a work ethic to get things done. He did as much for this team as any coach not named BB. We can be bitter about how it all ended as much as we want but lets not pretend he didn't start the rock rolling that eventually lead to our SB victories.

No question that Parcells brought his name and his coaching to Foxboro but if I understand how things worked back then I'm not entirely sure he actually played a role in bringing those guys in. My understanding of it is that one of the major reasons he left is that he didn't have much of a say in who the Pats drafted. I'm open to recalibration if I'm wrong here.

IListen we all hate the fact that he did that but he did bring in guys like:

Milloy, Law, McGinest, Bruschi, Johnson, Brown all of which without we might not be talking about SB's around here. He also took over from Dick and installed a sense of team, order, and a work ethic to get things done. He did as much for this team as any coach not named BB. We can be bitter about how it all ended as much as we want but lets not pretend he didn't start the rock rolling that eventually lead to our SB victories.

And who did the grocery shopping for Milloy, Law, McGinest, Bruschi, Johnson, Brown? His record was 5-11, 10-6, 6-10, 11-5 for a total of 32-32. He left after that. The the record was 10-6, 9-7, 8-8. Belicheck took over what was left of whoever shopped for the groceries and has his first year at 5-11. Then came the superbowl and division titles run and missing the playoffs twice by losing tie-breakers.

And who did the grocery shopping for Milloy, Law, McGinest, Bruschi, Johnson, Brown? His record was 5-11, 10-6, 6-10, 11-5 for a total of 32-32. He left after that. The the record was 10-6, 9-7, 8-8. Belicheck took over what was left of whoever shopped for the groceries and has his first year at 5-11. Then came the superbowl and division titles run and missing the playoffs twice by losing tie-breakers.

You five tuna way too much credit.

SLGDEV/sheldong/sheldonlg

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and the record prior to the Tuna was 6-10 and 1-15....... He completely changed the culture of the organization. He also brought in numerous coaching staff like Weis and Crennel who Kraft thought so highly of they were brought back with BB. Listen I understand the hate for the guy the way he snaked off the team but putting emotion aside this guy was pivotal to turning around the organization and bringing in people who played critical roles in the eventual SB victories.

And who did the grocery shopping for Milloy, Law, McGinest, Bruschi, Johnson, Brown? His record was 5-11, 10-6, 6-10, 11-5 for a total of 32-32. He left after that. The the record was 10-6, 9-7, 8-8. Belicheck took over what was left of whoever shopped for the groceries and has his first year at 5-11. Then came the superbowl and division titles run and missing the playoffs twice by losing tie-breakers.

You five tuna way too much credit.

SLGDEV/sheldong/sheldonlg

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and the record prior to the Tuna was 6-10 and 1-15....... He completely changed the culture of the organization. He also brought in numerous coaching staff like Weis and Crennel who Kraft thought so highly of they were brought back with BB. Listen I understand the hate for the guy the way he snaked off the team but putting emotion aside this guy was pivotal to turning around the organization and bringing in people who played critical roles in the eventual SB victories.

No question that Parcells made his mark on Foxboro - I don't dispute that. My point was that he was not a determining influence in which players the Pats brought in.

No question that Parcells made his mark on Foxboro - I don't dispute that. My point was that he was not a determining influence in which players the Pats brought in.

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He wasn't the end all be all that BB is but I bet he had a pretty large voice in it. Paecells was PO'd he didn't have complete say but it's not like he had to sit back and work with whatever they got him. No coach does that. I will guarantee he had as much say as the head of player personal and I'm sure they clashed over certain players but I will guarantee those guys listed were some of his guys.

Obviously the work that Parcells did in the 95 draft was the reason BB won a Superbowl 6 years later and 8 years and 9 years....even though Parcells wasn't even the GM.

If Parcells was still here we would have won at least 5 more Superbowls with the likes of Drew Bledsoe and then Tony Romo taking over after Drew retired. Ohhhh what could have been if it wasn't for Kraft screwing the pooch by allowing this Belichick guy to muck up his franchise. What a dope!

I thought he made every draft pick himself except for Terry Glenn (correct me if I'm wrong here). I believe he wanted Tony Brackens but Kraft wanted a weapon for Bledsoe. He also got mad when Myra wanted Christian Peter off the team shortly after they drafted him. So him being his stubborn self, got mad and wanted to leave. I don't think you can take away that he was a great coach and did a lot here but I also think he could be a grade A a**hole.

Obviously the work that Parcells did in the 95 draft was the reason BB won a Superbowl 6 years later and 8 years and 9 years....even though Parcells wasn't even the GM.

If Parcells was still here we would have won at least 5 more Superbowls with the likes of Drew Bledsoe and then Tony Romo taking over after Drew retired. Ohhhh what could have been if it wasn't for Kraft screwing the pooch by allowing this Belichick guy to muck up his franchise. What a dope!

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I know, I hate that argument because, can anyone name a SB team that didn't have atleast some stars from the previous coaching? Jimmy Johnson had some of Landry's players for example. You could go all day with this

No question that Parcells made his mark on Foxboro - I don't dispute that. My point was that he was not a determining influence in which players the Pats brought in.

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He wasn't the end all be all that BB is but I bet he had a pretty large voice in it. Paecells was PO'd he didn't have complete say but it's not like he had to sit back and work with whatever they got him. No coach does that. I will guarantee he had as much say as the head of player personal and I'm sure they clashed over certain players but I will guarantee those guys listed were some of his guys.

PE, I remember it a little differently. Bobby Grier was elevated to Director of Player Personnel in 1995 and had a greater say at that point than did Parcells. The payoff for Parcells was the selection of Terry Glenn over his objection. That essentially led to Parcells departure. How much say Parcells had before that is another matter.

I don't think he should get in at all. He did a slimey thing that in other sports would probably get him banned for life! Was he instrumental in the turn around of the Pats? No, Kraft was. Kraft was looking for a certain kind of coach that just happened to have the same characteristics as Parcells. If it wasn't Parcells it would have been someone else like Parcells and the turn around would have happened anyway.

Wilbur also said that without Parcells there is no Brady. Since the 1996 season was Parcells' last year as coach here, and Brady's rookie season was 2000, how does he figure that out? One thing he did say is that without Parcells there would be no Belichek here. OK, we have Belicheck because he didn't want to coach the Jets with Parcells as GM. For that we should put the egoist in the Patriots HOF? Nonsense. He should NEVER get in. A couple of winning seasons does not make a HOF candidate.

SLGDEV/sheldong/sheldonlg

+1...parcells has had a HOF career...just not a Pats HOF career. Pass.

If by some chance he gets in, please make his area of the Pats HoF smaller than BB's. create an altar for BB, and put Parcells face on one of the many candles that surround it.

PE, I remember it a little differently. Bobby Grier was elevated to Director of Player Personnel in 1995 and had a greater say at that point than did Parcells. The payoff for Parcells was the selection of Terry Glenn over his objection. That essentially led to Parcells departure. How much say Parcells had before that is another matter.

Most of those players were in the 96 draft and a couple in the 95 draft. So, it wasn't Parcells.

Parcells inherited a good program and some very good players in New York.

Parcells without Belichick coaching his defense has a sub 500 record.

I actually like the guy and think he knows a lot, he knew what a big league organization was supposed to look like and got us headed in that direction, although he fell short and perhaps of his own arrogance. I still don't see how he deserves a place in the Patriot Hall Of Fame?

Parcells inherited a good program and some very good players in New York.

Parcells without Belichick coaching his defense has a sub 500 record.

I actually like the guy and think he knows a lot, he knew what a big league organization was supposed to look like and got us headed in that direction, although he fell short and perhaps of his own arrogance. I still don't see how he deserves a place in the Patriot Hall Of Fame?

because in Wilbur's opinion (it is an opinion piece) there is no Patriots and no Patriots HOF if Parcells does not come here....

PE, I remember it a little differently. Bobby Grier was elevated to Director of Player Personnel in 1995 and had a greater say at that point than did Parcells. The payoff for Parcells was the selection of Terry Glenn over his objection. That essentially led to Parcells departure. How much say Parcells had before that is another matter.

Most of those players were in the 96 draft and a couple in the 95 draft. So, it wasn't Parcells.

Parcells was an excellent head coach who knew how to push the right buttons to motivate the players. He also was very smart to surround himself with good coaches. Parcells can take credit for bringing them to New England and introducing them to Kraft. The Patriots wouldn't have won those Super Bowls if he had not.