plumberrick wrote:I know that if my health insurance costs more than my house payment which has been true since 2005 then our system is screwed up. So we elect a President that promises a better solution, unfortunately he didn't figure on the massive amounts of obstruction on the right and massive amounts of gutless leadership on the left and a bunch of crooks who had to get something out of the idea of National Healthcare and so now we have this law that though it is working at a very slow pace, we as American citizens deserved much better than what we have gotten. Why cant we have Socialized medicine like, Canada, England, France, Germany, Italy, Austria, Sweden, Denmark, hell even China and Mexico are working on socialized healthcare programs. But not the U.S.A we have to be stupid and try to set up a system where the rich insurance companies can keep their hands in the cookie jar taking our money. We had a bill that was drafted and ready for committee last year in Colorado. It would have given Coloradoans healthcare through a state program and was going to cost us about 9% more in state income tax but would have given us full health care. I make a good living and that 9% would have cost me $435.37 less a month than what I am paying now. But the poor guy didn't even get it close to a committee. He was basically told to stand down by both sides of the aisle. The dang thing is there is no good reason to not do socialized medicine, but our friends the republicans want us to think socialized medicine is like communism, (big insurance helps get them elected with lots of $$$ just like big oil gets them elected with lots of $$$ so they will do what they have to protect their financial backers). How can they be for the people and the insurance companies at the same time. They can't it isn't possible because what the insurance companies need is our money, so the idea that we elect people who fund their campaigns from the big insurance and oil and expect them to protect our interests is insane, republicans can't support the people because it would be political suicide $$$ they would lose their financial backing to all of the campaigns they have and they would have to restructure their party and it would take years for them to come back. All they have left now is deception of the masses, the problem with that is you can't deceive everyone and sooner or later they will pay the piper. I hope it is sooner because we need two healthy parties for this country to run right and right now we don't have a good republican party.

dbp wrote:A single payer system would take the profits out of insurance and bring down rates for consumers. Republicans would never go for it. Which is why we need to give Hillary a Democratic Congress (if she's what we're stuck with).

Single payer would do no such thing. As I pointed out earlier, by definition, single payer would be a government created and protected monopoly. It, thus, would have all the problems of a monopoly, including no incentive to bring down costs.

No, it wouldn't. Just look at Canada.

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil — that takes religion."~ Steven Weinberg - Nobel laureate in Physics.

Bubba311 wrote:Voters and the mainstream media should watch what the Obama administration and Democratic Party legislators are doing, rather than what they are saying about the ill-conceived ACA. They know the ACA is a lost cause, but they would lose face by repealing it outright so they are equivocating and softening their rhetorical defense of the law, even as they are killing it bit by bit with an unending succession of exemptions, waivers, modifications, delays, and non-enforcement of its provisions. The law may not be repealed, but it will suffer "death by a thousand cuts".

I think the voters are going to grow tired of the GOP's obsession with the ACA while ignoring other things, like jobs. Soon most Americans will know someone who has benefited from the ACA and the GOP's diatribes will fall on deaf ears. Besides, the GOP has nothing better to offer.

The voters will grow tired until they feel the full affect. There have been alternatives proposed, but what happened when Cruz wanted to delay it? The democrats refused and shut down the government. Then decided to start delaying it. Cruz was right dems weren't. See what happens when better offers are proposed........they get no where. Obama threatened to veto anything that changed the law. What would you propose republicans do about that?

Last edited by billrob37 on March 14th, 2014, 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dbp wrote:It's a real shame for our country so many people are uninformed. Conservatives know they're misinformed and they don't care; no amount of information that contradicts their beliefs is going to make them change their minds. It's the independent, low-infor-mation voters who decide elections, and evidently, they're buying into the GOP lies. That's not good for our country. I feel sorry for young people. They don't have much of a future to look forward to.

dbp wrote:It's a real shame for our country so many people are uninformed. *snip* I feel sorry for young people. They don't have much of a future to look forward to.

I agree. I wonder how many people see that Obamacare is yet another government action that maintains the lifestyle of the Baby Boomers at the expense of the Millennials...

The ACA will reduce that national debt by about a trillion dollars in twenty years. It will spare the millennials the indignity of going bankrupt because of medical bills or dying too soon because the care they need is out of reach. The baby boomers never had it so good.

billrob37 wrote:The voters will grow tired until they feel the full affect. There have been alternatives propose, but what happened when Cruz wanted to delay it? The democrats refused and shut down the government. Then decided to start delaying it. Cruz was right dems weren't. See what happens when better offers are proposed........they get no where. Obama threatened to veto anything that changed the law. What would you propose republicans do about that?

Cruz attempted to destroy our entire system of government. And Obama never "threatened to veto anything that changed the law." If Congress passed a bill that improved the ACA, Obama would gladly sign it.

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil — that takes religion."~ Steven Weinberg - Nobel laureate in Physics.

dbp wrote:A single payer system would take the profits out of insurance and bring down rates for consumers. Republicans would never go for it. Which is why we need to give Hillary a Democratic Congress (if she's what we're stuck with).

Single payer would do no such thing. As I pointed out earlier, by definition, single payer would be a government created and protected monopoly. It, thus, would have all the problems of a monopoly, including no incentive to bring down costs.

billrob37 wrote:The voters will grow tired until they feel the full affect. There have been alternatives propose, but what happened when Cruz wanted to delay it? The democrats refused and shut down the government. Then decided to start delaying it. Cruz was right dems weren't. See what happens when better offers are proposed........they get no where. Obama threatened to veto anything that changed the law. What would you propose republicans do about that?

Cruz attempted to destroy our entire system of government. And Obama never "threatened to veto anything that changed the law." If Congress passed a bill that improved the ACA, Obama would gladly sign it.

Quit being such a shill. "It's the law of the land. I will veto any attempt to change or repeal". Harry Reid will not bring anything republicans have or could suggest to the floor for debate. What do you want republicans to do about that. Why are democrats trying to delay many parts of the bill, if it's so good. They are starting to agree and finally admit that they were wrong. Why don't you try it and set your burdened soul free. You and Johnny could go talk about other stuff that you know nothing about and free up some time to educate yourself.

billrob37 wrote:The voters will grow tired until they feel the full affect. There have been alternatives propose, but what happened when Cruz wanted to delay it? The democrats refused and shut down the government. Then decided to start delaying it. Cruz was right dems weren't. See what happens when better offers are proposed........they get no where. Obama threatened to veto anything that changed the law. What would you propose republicans do about that?

Cruz attempted to destroy our entire system of government. And Obama never "threatened to veto anything that changed the law." If Congress passed a bill that improved the ACA, Obama would gladly sign it.

Quit being such a shill. "It's the law of the land. I will veto any attempt to change or repeal". Harry Reid will not bring anything republicans have or could suggest to the floor for debate. What do you want republicans to do about that. Why are democrats trying to delay many parts of the bill, if it's so good. They are starting to agree and finally admit that they were wrong. Why don't you try it and set your burdened soul free. You and Johnny could go talk about other stuff that you know nothing about and free up some time to educate yourself.

He never said that. Making something up and putting quotes around it doesn't make it a quote. Of course he's not going to repeal the ACA. And you want Republican changes enacted just because they're by Republicans. There's no critical thinking involved. You just want Republican legislation enacted.

And since there is absolutely no logic involved in your argument, you need to engage in personal attacks and name calling. That's the conservative way.

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil — that takes religion."~ Steven Weinberg - Nobel laureate in Physics.

That may be true, but they're not changing the single-payer system because it works. They're experimenting with private clinics -- a concept that seems to be beyond the ability of a conservative to comprehend.

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil — that takes religion."~ Steven Weinberg - Nobel laureate in Physics.

Greg, you realize this proposal is pretty much Obamacare with a few compromises for the lobbyists?

Brian

Right.Just like a Conestoga Wagon and the Space Shuttle are pretty much the same thing. They both have wheels, seats and a place for cargo. Therefore they are the same.

Free Market Competition for insurers ACROSS State lines. HSA. Two easy to implement ideas which would have actually lowered the cost for consumers. Two other GOP ideas which Obama refused to consider because he was too busy excluding the GOP from any discussion.

billrob37 wrote:The voters will grow tired until they feel the full affect. There have been alternatives propose, but what happened when Cruz wanted to delay it? The democrats refused and shut down the government. Then decided to start delaying it. Cruz was right dems weren't. See what happens when better offers are proposed........they get no where. Obama threatened to veto anything that changed the law. What would you propose republicans do about that?

Cruz attempted to destroy our entire system of government. And Obama never "threatened to veto anything that changed the law." If Congress passed a bill that improved the ACA, Obama would gladly sign it.

Quit being such a shill. "It's the law of the land. I will veto any attempt to change or repeal". Harry Reid will not bring anything republicans have or could suggest to the floor for debate. What do you want republicans to do about that. Why are democrats trying to delay many parts of the bill, if it's so good. They are starting to agree and finally admit that they were wrong. Why don't you try it and set your burdened soul free. You and Johnny could go talk about other stuff that you know nothing about and free up some time to educate yourself.

He never said that. Making something up and putting quotes around it doesn't make it a quote. Of course he's not going to repeal the ACA. And you want Republican changes enacted just because they're by Republicans. There's no critical thinking involved. You just want Republican legislation enacted.

And since there is absolutely no logic involved in your argument, you need to engage in personal attacks and name calling. That's the conservative way.

June 6th 2012. He threatened to veto the medical device tax that had democrat support. That's just one time. There are many more.

billrob37 wrote:The voters will grow tired until they feel the full affect. There have been alternatives propose, but what happened when Cruz wanted to delay it? The democrats refused and shut down the government. Then decided to start delaying it. Cruz was right dems weren't. See what happens when better offers are proposed........they get no where. Obama threatened to veto anything that changed the law. What would you propose republicans do about that?

Cruz attempted to destroy our entire system of government. And Obama never "threatened to veto anything that changed the law." If Congress passed a bill that improved the ACA, Obama would gladly sign it.

Quit being such a shill. "It's the law of the land. I will veto any attempt to change or repeal". Harry Reid will not bring anything republicans have or could suggest to the floor for debate. What do you want republicans to do about that. Why are democrats trying to delay many parts of the bill, if it's so good. They are starting to agree and finally admit that they were wrong. Why don't you try it and set your burdened soul free. You and Johnny could go talk about other stuff that you know nothing about and free up some time to educate yourself.

He never said that. Making something up and putting quotes around it doesn't make it a quote. Of course he's not going to repeal the ACA. And you want Republican changes enacted just because they're by Republicans. There's no critical thinking involved. You just want Republican legislation enacted.

And since there is absolutely no logic involved in your argument, you need to engage in personal attacks and name calling. That's the conservative way.

The reason you may not find any logic in my post, is because I'm describing what liberals do. What republican changes are you talking about. I thought you said that republicans have not offered any changes….…, but now you admit they have….that seems illogical.

dbp wrote:A single payer system would take the profits out of insurance and bring down rates for consumers. Republicans would never go for it. Which is why we need to give Hillary a Democratic Congress (if she's what we're stuck with).

Single payer would do no such thing. As I pointed out earlier, by definition, single payer would be a government created and protected monopoly. It, thus, would have all the problems of a monopoly, including no incentive to bring down costs.

No, it wouldn't. Just look at Canada.

You mean the Canadian health care system that it's own inventor admits is a massive failure? A system in crisis filled with corruption and lack of innovation? That system? The one where you wait 2 months for an MRI, eight months for a knee or hip replacement. You mean that Canadian Health care system? The one you can't sue when they kill your children on the operating table.

dbp wrote:A single payer system would take the profits out of insurance and bring down rates for consumers. Republicans would never go for it. Which is why we need to give Hillary a Democratic Congress (if she's what we're stuck with).

Single payer would do no such thing. As I pointed out earlier, by definition, single payer would be a government created and protected monopoly. It, thus, would have all the problems of a monopoly, including no incentive to bring down costs.

No, it wouldn't. Just look at Canada.

You mean the Canadian health care system that it's own inventor admits is a massive failure? A system in crisis filled with corruption and lack of innovation? That system? The one where you wait 2 months for an MRI, eight months for a knee or hip replacement. You mean that Canadian Health care system? The one you can't sue when they kill your children on the operating table.

He didn't say it was a "failure." He said it is "in crisis." If you need to lie to make your point, you have no point and just complaining because that's what you're told to do. Try thinking for yourself once in a while.

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil — that takes religion."~ Steven Weinberg - Nobel laureate in Physics.

The "mandate" was for catastrophic coverage only, and Heritage later determined it was unconstitutional and withdrew any support for it. The plan included major tax overhauls (and they weren't focused on taxing the "rich", either). The employer mandate was only for large companies. Oh, and I forget, what exactly was the penalty for non-compliance with the individual "mandate"? Can you help me out here?

billrob37 wrote:The voters will grow tired until they feel the full affect. There have been alternatives propose, but what happened when Cruz wanted to delay it? The democrats refused and shut down the government. Then decided to start delaying it. Cruz was right dems weren't. See what happens when better offers are proposed........they get no where. Obama threatened to veto anything that changed the law. What would you propose republicans do about that?

Cruz attempted to destroy our entire system of government. And Obama never "threatened to veto anything that changed the law." If Congress passed a bill that improved the ACA, Obama would gladly sign it.

Quit being such a shill. "It's the law of the land. I will veto any attempt to change or repeal". Harry Reid will not bring anything republicans have or could suggest to the floor for debate. What do you want republicans to do about that. Why are democrats trying to delay many parts of the bill, if it's so good. They are starting to agree and finally admit that they were wrong. Why don't you try it and set your burdened soul free. You and Johnny could go talk about other stuff that you know nothing about and free up some time to educate yourself.

He never said that. Making something up and putting quotes around it doesn't make it a quote. Of course he's not going to repeal the ACA. And you want Republican changes enacted just because they're by Republicans. There's no critical thinking involved. You just want Republican legislation enacted.

And since there is absolutely no logic involved in your argument, you need to engage in personal attacks and name calling. That's the conservative way.