The iBooks are a great deal for the money, I think. I think they should, though put at least a DVD drive in the low end, but a CD-R would be best. As far as the PowerBooks go, the 12" is fine where it is (maybe move it to 1649-1849--hey, $50 is $50!), and the 17" is just too darn high. Yes, I know there is a lot of technology crammed into that small, (well, relatively small) case, but there is not enough under the hood to jjustify that price right now. Bluetooth? not a necessity, but a convenience for those with the Bluetooth devices already. Lit keyboard? Noce, definitley, but not a nescessity. I think around $2699 would be more realistic and would sell more laptops.That leaves the 15" model, and it is too long in the tooth for its price as well. How long have we had this model now? We all know that it will not get revised until the 17" has been shipping for some indeterminate amount of time (only Steve knows). I don't know, maybe just 2099-2299 for the 15" would do.

Given that these days, anything with a G3, non-DDR SDRAM, ATA66 hard drive, or the "legacy" GeForce2 or Radeon 7500, belongs in a used computer store, the following are really the bottom of the line, or at least the minimum to even consider (and the 12" PowerBook should be named iBook, NOT PowerBook):

You really take a hit in capability for that portability, considering the price. You lose DVD capability from 4X to 1X. And you only get half the screen area, half the video memory, half the hard disk space, in addition to slower processor and video, and less memory upgradeability. And you have to buy AirPort and Bluetooth, whether you need it or not.

If Apple's gonna charge that much for a 12" PB, it should certainly have 60GB HD and a single 256MB in the internal DIMM.

Alright. Let's clear the air here. For $1999, you do get a Superdrive in your 12".

I also don't see any reason why you should be whining about the hard drive size, if it's seriously that much of an issue, go for the extra $50 and you get a 60gb - quite a large drive for any notebook.

And, oh yeah, the 17" iMac is a bit of a pain in the ass to stick in your backpack. Also, I'd look kind of funny bringing that from room to room to take notes on, don't you think?

It's all about what you need vs. what you can afford, but at least get the facts right.

Originally posted by Gus The iBooks are a great deal for the money, I think. I think they should, though put at least a DVD drive in the low end, but a CD-R would be best....
Gus

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Unfortunately the time it would take to just to Prepare a DVD for burning would be painfully long. All the DVD tools avalible for mac make extensive use of the Velocity Engine(Altivec/SIMD) avalible in the G4. This is one thing the G3, even a 900mhz G3, would have trouble doing. Now thats just the multiplexing and encoding, not just the actually burning of the plastic. There probably would not be much of a difference in actually burning the DVD plastic.

"It would be a lot better with a 14" screen and you could take that to class."
I saw someone on here the other day (navyintel007?) saying he wanted a *smaller* powerbook. If you want a bigger screen, go for the 15". There's a place for a 12" powerbook. And of course you are going to lose performance in a notebook compared to a similarly priced desktop. It's always been that way, and likely always will be that way. You are paying for the portability. If you don't need that, buy the desktop, by all means.

"Given that these days, anything with a G3, non-DDR SDRAM, ATA66 hard drive, or the 'legacy' GeForce2 or Radeon 7500, belongs in a used computer store"

.I have new ibook that would qualify for the used computer junk heap according to many of your critera, and I love it. It's fast, it's portable, it does everything I want it to do, and quickly. If you need more speed than a G3, or you need DDR RAM, fine, great for you. That's why the powerbooks are there. But not everyone needs the things you list. Some people even get along fine with old imacs or B&W G3s, if you can imagine.

And to the original point, yes, I think the powerbooks are too expensive. But they are supposed to be for professionals. Professional budgets for professional needs.

I have a 550Mhz TiBook & a 500Mhz iBook and the G4 (obviously) kils the iBook in speed. My iBook has 576Mb RAM and at times it _crawls_ under Jaguar. I have a feeling that G3s won't run Panther when it comes out, or they'll run it, just unacceptably slow.

I'm not sure if I believe this whole "Megahertz Myth" thing, but I thought putting an 867Mhz G4 into the 12" was a step backwards. The 1Ghz 15" TiBook is far overpriced as well, just like the 17". Yeah, you get a of junk tossed in there, but $3,000+ is a LOT of money for a notebook.

I'm not expecting to pay $1,000 for a PowerBook, even back in the day they were expensive. But I think the prices should drop a LITTLE.

The exorbitant prices, coupled with the numerous horror stories of people waiting weeks for repairs, doesn't make me want to shell out that kind of money at all.

And the iBooks should get a little RAM boost, has anyone run Jaguar on 128RAM? It's shiesty to have to immediately fork over more cash for RAM that should be in the system from the begining.

Maybe it's because the new 17" iMac is so GOOD (for a Mac) when it comes to hardware/price, but it's just really hard spend $2800 on a 15" PowerBook, even if they do update them with DDR333 this summer.

By that time $2800 will buy you a 3.0HT P4 w/200MHz FSB clock, a Gig of dual-channel DDR400, with 80GB 5400 rpm drive, AND an ATI M10 w/128MB of video memory, feeding a UXGA 15" wide-view panel, even if you do have to run Linux to escape the Borg. And yeah, that's in an 8 lb Clevo-built, Sager-branded notebook.

Megahertz myth or not, Apple needs to stay at least at half PC speed for the money. 3.0HT is more than 3 times the speed of a 1GHz G4, and dual-channel DDR 400 is 3 times the speed of DDR266.

My comment on the 12"PB not being a PB has more to do with it not having Level 3 cache (like the iMac) than all the lesser components it carries.

And I agree that 128MB is insufficient for built-in memory the user can't upgrade.

In our situation (full-time RVing), we'll need a notebook. Internet by satellite is still too expensive for us, so that means going to the campground dial-up access when the 14.4kbs cell phone access won't do.

as far as the iBooks pricing, i think it's OK, although a price drop is always nice, maybe AUD$100-200.

the 17"PB in my opinion is priced well, it's a pro model, not meant to be affordable to everyone. the 15"PB will be worth the money, as soon as the upgraded ones are released, if they have the same features as the 17" and the Radeon 9600.

i guess that the 12"PB is a good price... but it really should be an iBook, not a PowerBook. but i guess that will all come in time.

edit>> i agree that 128MB RAM in any Mac (except maybe the eMac) is way too low, they all need at least 256MB.

I think everything at apple should come down in price. I know it's good stuff. However the price for power equation is out. Prices need to fall. I know I'll be flamed for this, so I'll zip up my fire proof suit.

A Lamborgini Diablo at $200.000 or the same Lamborgini Diablo at $10.000?

Powerbooks are expensive there is no reason to say "I think the price is right", Apple created its own monopoly, no other company can build powerbooks beside then and the other option is to use a PC that is a very different system.

The 12" powerbook should cost no more than $1200 or may be less if we compare the features with the PC laptops.

Originally posted by jethroted I think everything at apple should come down in price. I know it's good stuff. However the price for power equation is out. Prices need to fall. I know I'll be flamed for this, so I'll zip up my fire proof suit.

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there you go!

i do think that the 12 inch ibook and powerbook are the best priced machines...but they should all come down in price!!!

Originally posted by jefhatfield the only powerbook that i think is ok in price in the lineup is the entry level 12 inch at 1799

i say make the superdrive 12 inch albook 1899

make the entry level 15 inch 1999

and make the top end 17 inch 2999 at the most

with pc laptops being so comparatively cheap, apple needs to stay competivie

btw...i think all the ibooks with their 32 mb vram across the board are well priced

thoughts?

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1799 for a dvd burning capable laptop is unheard of in the pc world. Take what apple has given us at face value and understand how much better it is to be a mac user

understand also what that '899' laptop from dell comes with. usually a celeron processor, only 256 of ram, usually onboard graphics, audio, and definitely no firewire. no for 200 dollars more they will give u a cd burner/dvd player.

At risk of pissing EVERYONE off, i didn't pay for my 17" PB, my Uni bought it for me, but I had to threaten to resign before they would!

Yes I think they are generally overpriced, but as many companies have discovered, it's often an excellent marketing ploy to enforce exclusivity by raising the price rather than tyr to sell more by lowering it.

A similarlly spec'ced Dell or Sony would cost very close to the £2500 the AlBook costs, and I know which one I would buy. If I had to. Buy one that is. But I don't....

Originally posted by WinterMute Yes I think they are generally overpriced, but as many companies have discovered, it's often an excellent marketing ploy to enforce exclusivity by raising the price rather than tyr to sell more by lowering it.

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heh. thats true. just ask starbucks.
they've kept the luxury pricing plan for the 17", though. so we have competitive prices and afforadble luxury. best of both worlds!

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