Two daddies - there is no confusion!

When I first started the egg donor and surrogacy program here in South Africa, I would get enquiries from gay couples and singles from overseas. Many of them would start their email with "I am not sure whether you deal with gay couples...." and the first few times I was all like "huh? What do you mean?" Of course I deal with gay couples, why wouldn't I? And then I realized how often gay couples were discriminated against. And what a tough time they had accessing the things we take for granted.

(We are very, very lucky that in South Africa we have a constitution protects the rights of ALL people - regardless of their race, religion, sexual orientation etc etc. Gay people are allowed to marry, adopt, have kids etc. I guess coming from a history of atrocious human rights abuse, we make damn sure here in South Africa that it never happens again*.)

OF COURSE we deal with gay couples! We LOVE our gay couples so much! They allow us to be cyber aunties to lots and lots of gorgeous babies all over the world. I keep threatening to knit pastel coloured booties and send them to all the gorgeous babes.

Within the egg donor world, there are two groups of people - those who chose to disclose to their child that they were conceived through donor egg and those who choose not to disclose. Those who choose not to disclose do so for various reasons (religious reasons, fear of the extended family's rejection of the child, their own personal reasons etc etc). While I am firmly in the 'telling' camp (the experts say 'tell early and tell often'), I respect that each family has their own story. And it is theirs to tell.

This baby making stuff is so personal, and I become so emotionally invested in each person's story - it is impossible for me to see this as just a 'job' or just a business. I have become really good friends with many of my recipients. I love them and I love their gorgeous babies. However, I realize that for some people, I am a reminder of something they would prefer not to think about - the donor egg bit. Which means that some of the people prefer not to hear from me after they get pregnant. In fact, some people pretend they dont know me at all afterwards, just in case someone works out that if I know them, there might be a connection to a donor egg. I understand. It does feel a little ouch sometimes but that is MINOR - my feelings in this dont matter, it is all about the child and his or her family.

Having said that, it is soooooooooo divine for me when the recipients stay in touch with me after the baby is born and because my gay couples / singles are in the 'telling' camp (for obvious reasons), I get to be BFFs with them and keep up to date with their gorgeous babies. And oh my word! What beautiful babies my gay couples make!! GORGEOUS! I love how committed to parenting my gay parents are (as are my straight couples!) - these are babies that are most definitely wanted! And adored! And loved! And well raised!

I was at a family event recently and my mom said to me "tell Aunty so and so cousin's sister what you do, it is so interesting". So I started talking about my work and surrogacy and cases where both a surrogate and an egg donor is used, as if for example when it is a same sex couple and ...

"Oh, those poor children" says so and so's cousin's sister.

Me: Why?

So and So: Well, they must be so confused...

Me: Why would they be confused?

S&S: Because, you know, there are two fathers...

Me: What is so confusing about that? They have two fathers. One of them is not going to dress up as a woman and pretend to be the mother. They have two fathers, no confusion.

S&S: But you know, two men together....

Me: The child is going to have two loving parents. Two daddies. Who are not going to have sex in front of the children any more than a hetro couple will have sex in front of the children - WHERE IS THE CONFUSION???

I know there are people out there who do not approve. Frankly, I don't give a shit. There is no 'argument' against gay parenting that comes even close to intelligent debate. Every argument against it comes from a judgemental, prejudiced point of view and I don't do prejudice. You can't use rational debate when you are dealing with the irrational. You are entitled to your views, you are not entitled to impose your beliefs and prejudices on other consenting adult's free choice. No one expects you be a gay parent, marry a gay person or be gay. You carry on being straight and they will carry on being gay - where is the confusion here people?

*end rant*

In my egg donor progam, I am PROUD to say that we deal with gay couples, single parents, single gay parents, hell.... we even deal with STRAIGHT, MARRIED COUPLES!! I know! Hard to believe! WHAT IS THIS WORLD COMING TO!!

Now let me introduce you to my one of my dearest cyber families - T&A with their FOUR children!!! Yes my friends, they have four kids under 7 months! Let me not ever hear you are busy with your brood - four kids under 7 months! Now THAT is busy. Same egg donor so they are biologically related to each other - T is the bio dad of the twin boys and A is the bio dad of the twin girls. Each dad is the adoptive parent of the bio dad's twins. Aren't they gorgeous! (And the babies aren't bad either) <-forget to mention that T&A live in the USA

I would love to share more pics of my other cyber kids but I haven't had a chance to ask the daddies permission, but if you are my FB friend, you will have seen the many babies I comment on or share.

You are welcome to share your opinion on this, however I will NOT tolerate ANY negative comments directed towards T&A, their families or the families of any of my gay parents. You can speak about the topic in general terms, you may not be personal. Personal attacks will be deleted.

*It is my feeling that in a few years time we are going to look back at this time, as we did when looking back at slavery, at apartheid etc and say "I can't believe we ever allowed that to happen" - 'that' being the discrimination against gay people as we have it today.

A final punt for future daddies (and mommies) - these couples and singles would not be able to experience parenting without the generosity of egg donors and / or surrogate mothers - if you can, please help them out www.nurture.co.za

PS Today we spoke about circumcision in the car on the way to school. More blog fodder!

Comments

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I am a very lucky Mommy. I have 2 biological children and 2 adopted children. I am firmly with Tertia in the "telling camp". By the way both were foster babies before their adoption. My husband and I, plus family members and friends, always spoke openly about their adoption in front of them. We always told them how special they were BECAUSE they were adopted, long before they even understood it. Telling just makes it so much easier, we never have anything to hide or be afraid of. And at their 21st's and weddings etc, we never had to say "sit down,we have something to tell you".My advice to anyone in this wonderful programme - take the "open" route.

A brilliant post Tertia, thank you. It's amazing how naive / stupid some people can be, who cares whether they have two dads, two moms or just one parent as long as they are happy. What don't people get about that!! I adopted my daughter and it's an inter-racial adoption so you can just imagine that I've had my fair share of stupid comments in the past 17 months and now i just shake my head and think - shame you are a does!!!!

I reserve my "poor kids" thoughts for children other than ones with two very committed and loving parents. Know too many kids with two uncommitted and unloving and flat out shit parents - and strangely enough, those parents are not gay. Maybe because is takes a heck of a lot more thought to have a baby that way than the whole "lie back and think of England" method?

Not that natural is bad - how I had my children. We're rather found of the stinkers :-)

In the meantime, I confess to being very judgemental about not being honest about the question "where did I come from?"

I have witnessed the trauma from parents who are not honest, and the aftermath leaves a family permanently scarred. So badly, it even hurt the next generation. Lies, even when done with "good intentions" rarely turn out well.

Well you know how we stalk each others friends and share so I already know T and just love their little family. I agree it is something I believe we will look back on and be amazed at the prejudice gap people had to endure. And I am a Jesus loving clapper!

I wish Ireland was as forward as South Africa. My brother and his husband would LOVE to become parents in our country, sure they would really love if their marraige was even legal in this country. Yay for you, what an honour for you to be part of making peoples dreams come true. What a beautiful family your friends have, all the best and all the rest for them. Best wishes.

all i can say is "do they have help"? what a lovely family. how lucky and blessed they are. i just cannot imagine 4 under 7 months old. oy vey, that household is gonna be wild once they are all mobile! i hope you get a video of them as toddlers.

So so so blessed! Congrats to them .. and to all your families, Tertia. I do see your "kids" on fb, and they're beautiful and so so loved. But I agree with above comments.. just tired thinking about it!

Cheers Tertia! I live in California where we have the debate over Prop. 8, which by a margin of only 4% of voters took away the previously held right for gay couples to marry. I can't fathom why anyone would want to prevent two people who love each other from building a life together, and I have so many gay friends who have been negatively impacted by this. It makes me so sad. But I hope our society is changing for the better!

Their story and the picture MADE MY MORNING. I, too, live in California (where I have lived all my life but have only recently become embarrassed). We just cannot seem to get our collective sh*t together when it comes to equality. There is so much bad information being spewed by those with an agenda that real people with real love to give (to each other and to a family) are being harmed.

So, I read your friend's story and it makes me smile and gives me hope that we can aspire to something better. Hooray and bravo!

Love your rant! It drives me crazy that this has to be such an issue in the U.S. There are so many bad and awful things to worry about ... why stress about people loving each other and wanting to express that love?

T & A and their kids are just beautiful--I don't know them but that photo makes me proud and happy for them and their kids (and you and your business, too, Tertia!). I agree with Veronica: their lives must be so busy BUT they and their children are going to have the best time ever as they get older. What a wonderful family to have.

Three cheers for gay marriage, all the awesome science that lets gay couples get in on the kid-having, and all the people like you helping out!

When I look at T & A and their perfect (if somewhat busy at the moment) babies I just think how cool would it be to grow up in that family. How much fun. No, I can't see the confusion either. What is there is tell the kids? We wanted you guys, we couldn't do it alone so some lovely ladies helped us. The end.

GD you, Tertia! I am PMSing, don't you know that? Then I had to read this GD post and I cried. My mascara!!! I am not happy. But, really, I know this isn't your fault. [Where did I put that chocolate?]

Oh, in an ideal world, you'd have a mommy & a daddy who are happy, healthy, loving, well-adjusted and raising happy, healthy well adjusted children. Can't work with ideals, though. And anyone who has gone through IVF (and jumped through hoop after hoop!) obviously REALLY wants to be a parent. I wish T&A all the best - OMG, four babies?! - God bless them! I'm sure they will be fantastic parents to their children - they obviously really wanted kids!

Thank you so much for sharing, Tertia. It would be great to do updates on some of the families you blog about - to see what's going on in their lives in a year or so. :)

in my home country, there are so many babies born unwanted and unloved, who go on to experience abuse or neglect, or worse, regardless of the sexual proclivities of their parents. sheesh. every day some news article shows images of the latest victim/s.

these little ones look healthy and happy, and LOVED. LOVED. so who gives a shit what their parents do in bed (with 4 kids under a certain age, they aint gonna be doing it all that much anyway - raging gay or flaming lesbian or horny hetero or whatever. 4 kids + 2 daddies = (surely) a dramatically lowered libido and less sinful activities as a result! if not, then go the daddies!).

the beatles got it right all those years ago - all you need is love. and the rest follows.

I also experienced discrimination while building my family. I am a single mom to a gorgeous little girl (check out my blog, she's delish!) via embryo donation. My donor and I had to move the embryos in order to donate them to me, as the clinic where my donor did her IVF would not treat single women. We moved the embryos to another clinic, and 2 FETs later I was pregnant with my miracle. Thank you, Tertia, for helping to build our "alternative" families.

You know, I really truly admire you, and am so envious of you. You saw a need, you had an idea, and you started this fabulous business, that is just so wonderful. Most people would never get past the idea stage. You deserve all your success!

On the two dads or moms or whatever thing, I am right there with you. People once fought bitterly against allowing women to vote. How idiotic! I think it will be the same for gay marriage etc. I used to think it would happen in my children's lifetime, but now it is clear that it is happening in MY lifetime, and I am thrilled. And the more people see same sex parents going about their business just like any other family, the more quickly it will happen. And you helping that process along! How wonderful is that? I live in a community in New Jersey where same-sex couples are pretty common, so my kids mostly take it in stride.

Thank you everyone!!! I'm Todd of T&A and all of your wonderful comments more than made my day -- you made my year (and what a year it has been!) We have been on an amazing journey the last few years and we are so thrilled that Tertia and our babies' other "Nurture aunties" have been part of it. They are truly miracle-makers for us and so many other families.

We will be open with our children about everything, and we are especially proud of our childrens' ties to South Africa (they have links to four continents through my partner and me, our wonderful egg donor and our surrogate mothers). As you can imagine, we do get a lot of interest from people about how our family came into being. It's not a simple story to tell, but we try to give them at least the abbreviated version!

We love our children so much. It has been a dream of ours for years to make our family complete, and for so much of that time I never thought we would find a way to make it happen. Even just thinking of our children right now brings tears to my own eyes!

Having two sets of twins within 6 months of each other is without a doubt an huge challenge. We could not do this without a LOT of support and several wonderful people who help us at home. The rewards have been incredible... seeing our sons and daughters grow with us as they have in these few short months makes it all so worthwhile and I am so excited about the months and years ahead.

On the whole gay marriage / parenting thing, I really don't have a lot of time to get bothered about that anymore. To be perfectly honest, I have never encountered any overt discrimination towards us as a family. I'm not so naïve to think that it won't happen someday (I've had my share personally), and for sure, we will be preparing our children for that too. Last Friday we were in court for the hearing for my adoption of our daughters as their second daddy. The judge looked at us and said "I have no questions for you. It is obvious to me your children are all so loved and you all are ONE happy family. Congratulations." We were literally before him for less than 1 minute. Now that's what I call justice.

I don't have a blog but if you're a friend of Tertia's on Facebook you can find me there... I share a lot there (and more photos too) about our crazy, wonderful life. The nitty gritty details of everything we've been through is captured in a series of Facebook "Notes" that I've posted over the last year.

CONGRATS to you and your beautiful family Todd! I have one set of twin girls and would love another set :) Such a blessing they are. Lots of work in the beginning but then as they age they entertain each other and are so close; easier and so wonderful to watch them interact.

Can I join in this lovefest? Love you Tertia, love you Todd and family, love you fab unprejudiced people who posted. Ahhh - feel the love! Sometimes the world doesn't seem such a bad place after all...

Great story! I am a conservative, but I have no problem with gay marriage or gay parents. These guys are taking great care of their kids and the kids will grow up just fine. My problem is with parents who pop out kids and don't take care of them!

I think that any child, in a happy home, with one parent or two (regardless of gender) are going to be better, well adjusted adults than any child, in a broken home of any kind. It should be that simple for everyone. In fact I'd rather see a gay couple raising kids, than seeing some low-class types popping out 8-10 kids just for the social benefits.

What a beautiful family. The only thing I'm confused about is when the parents get any sleep!

My favorite quote of the post:
"It is my feeling that in a few years time we are going to look back at this time, as we did when looking back at slavery, at apartheid etc and say "I can't believe we ever allowed that to happen" - 'that' being the discrimination against gay people as we have it today."

And God bless T and A. Like Tertia I had one set of twins, and that was enough for me! Are you two in a state where gay marriage is legal? I'm wondering about whether it would be necessary for you guys to adopt each others biological offspring if you were legally married? Best of luck to all of you :)

Actually, I admit to being curious about the logistics of the matter. Could you maybe do a post where you describe the process of what you do? I assume with gay couples you would need to find a surrogte, or do they find one themselves?

I am a bit blown away by the circumstances of deciding to have four children under the age of 7 months. Was there a particular reason for that decision, if it's okay to ask? Perhaps because of distance, and needing to complete a family within a certain time-frame due to travel constraints? I'd like to be able to understand more. How does one go about finding surrogates, and what happens if the surrogate has issues with letting the baby go to their new parents? I imagine it is a very emotional business for everyone concerned.

I love this post. Thank you for sharing and for making it clear that this IS ok! Imagine the ice cream parlor that only served one flavor. They would be out of business in no time.
As for T&A - super good luck! Wow! Not only are they beautiful, but you have your hands full (literally and figuratively). I am glad you have help. I am super impressed!

Tertia, every post I read makes me even more broody......I wish I could already be benefiting from your program, maybe one day I will get there.......In the meantime, I get to admire all the beautiful babies that are a result of your work, whether they have hetero or gay parents, they are all a miracle!

Todd has made me cry. I read all the time - but rarely comment. We almost had the same family. I got pregnant with my twins when my (IVF) son was 2 months old. We didn't know you could get pregnant when you had sex, lol.

Unfortunetly, one of our daughters died at 5 days old of a rare heart thing (the valve that bypasses your lungs in utero kicked back in) but I still have two babies under the ages of two - and now that maggie is 9 months old (Cam is almost 21 months old) - it is SO much fun seeing the two of them together. Are we tired? Are things sometimes crazy? Yes - but Todd - you and your husband are going to have a fun, chaotic, wonderful life with those babies! Congrats!!!

4 kiddos under 7 months ... I need a nap just thinking about it! I think that's honestly the first time I've heard of that before ... two separate sets of twins being born to the same family so close together. They are going to have a LOT of fun!

A couple of weeks ago I saw a couple with a very, very small baby. I noticed the size of the baby first, and then her parents. My first thought, was - wow, what a lucky little girl she has two daddies that love her.

Cece, so sorry to hear of your loss... to me that would be many times harder than anything else we're talking about here.

On the decisions about having our children so close, it is very complicated. If you read the background Notes I've posted on Facebook, we had cycled with each of our embryos the first time last June. One of those was a positive and resulted in the birth of our boys in January. We still each had 5 frozen embryos remaining after that those attempts. It was always our intent to try again so it was just a matter of timing. There were a number of reasons we decided to try again so soon, but the most significant one was that in 2009 there was increasing talk of India potentially closing the door to gay parents pursuing surrogacy there. In hindsight that threat never materialized (and probably never will now) however we have ZERO regrets about the decisions we made at the time. We went into everything with our eyes wide open and aware of what the possible outcomes could be.

Same sex marriage is not legal in Texas. I am convinced it will be someday... and maybe sooner than I thought even a few years ago. If marriage was legal federally, I am sure we could have had both our names on the U.S. birth certificates that were issued to us at the U.S. consulate overseas. As it is now, our adoption orders give us each the same rights as parents anyway... Since I am also Canadian, all four of our children can (and will) also become Canadian citizens and I will have both of us listed at their fathers on their Canadian citizenship documents.

I work for a very supportive employer who gives us all the same benefits as a married couple. That meant (for example) I could cover our daughters under my medical insurance right from birth even though I was not recognized legally as their second father until I adopted them. And, they covered all of our adoption expenses both times, just as they would for a straight couple!

Great post Tertia!!!
I am a lesbian with 8 year old twins (anonymous sperm donor) and I am sooooo impressed by the support offered by your "commenters"!
Reading this post and list of comments has totally made my day!
Thank you for all that you do Tertia - the world is a better place because of people like you!

Congrats to T & A. I am unsure of the confusion as well. So many people have two daddies and two mommies. Especially if you are the child of divorced parents. I think it is great that South Africa is accepting of ALL! If only the US could get themselves there.