The Epic suck of India

There is what, like 1.1 billion people in India. They are apparently all the most uncoordinated people on the planet - one gold medal so far in the games, that's it? I understand Phelps now has more gold medals than India has achieved in the 112 years of the modern Olympics. They can't use the poor country excuse - Mongolia has two medals, and North Korea has 5!

And this Olympics represents a massive improvement over 2004 when they totaled one Silver medal for the whole games. The same Olympics where Australia (population c.20 million) won 49 medals, 17 of them gold.

Yeah, its not like we are talking about India only winning one medal in the Winter games for goodness sakes - its hot there (in most of the country) most of the time, if they are going to win medals, it would be at the summer games one would think. They are still stuck on one - and even that was for mens air rifle or something like that.....

Wow...this is pretty offensive...India is so focused on education. Everyone spends their high school years getting tutoring to take the standardized test to place into engineering or medical colleges. I can say that my parents' generation always puts an emphasis on studying, and as an American, I certainly live a more active lifestyle. I don't know why India doesn't have more gold medalists. Some of the people are absolutely dirt poor. Some people are rich, and they focus on academic achievements. I don't know if there's an emphasis on Olympic sports. Also, India doesn't manipulate government records for its own advantage...ahem...

Wow...this is pretty offensive...India is so focused on education. Everyone spends their high school years getting tutoring to take the standardized test to place into engineering or medical colleges. I can say that my parents' generation always puts an emphasis on studying, and as an American, I certainly live a more active lifestyle. I don't know why India doesn't have more gold medalists. Some of the people are absolutely dirt poor. Some people are rich, and they focus on academic achievements. I don't know if there's an emphasis on Olympic sports. Also, India doesn't manipulate government records for its own advantage...ahem...

Except you guys burn effigies if so-and-so makes a duck at cricket, and you suck at that too. 100,000 people turn up to soccer games, and you guys are beyond awful at soccer.

I remember India at least dominating men's field hockey at the Olympics, and sure enough Wikipedia shows:

The game had been taken to India by British servicemen and the first clubs formed in Calcutta in 1885. The Beighton Cup and the Aga Khan tournament commenced within ten years. Entering the Olympics in 1928, India won all five games without conceding a goal and won from 1932 until 1956 and then in 1964 and 1980. Pakistan won in 1960, 1968 and 1984.

In the early 1970s artificial turf began to be used. Synthetic pitches changed most aspects of hockey, gaining speed. New tactics and techniques such as the Indian dribble developed, followed by new rules to take account. The switch to synthetic surfaces ended Indian and Pakistani domination because artificial turf was too expensive—in comparison to the wealthier European countries—and since the 1970s Australia, The Netherlands and Germany have dominated at the Olympics.

"offensive"? Man, you must be pretty touchy. It's pretty fucking amazing that a country as populous as India is so very horrible at sports. End of story.

Yeah, I really didn't have a good answer.

Except you guys burn effigies if so-and-so makes a duck at cricket, and you suck at that too. 100,000 people turn up to soccer games, and you guys are beyond awful at soccer.

Yeah, India has had some great batsmen, but they've been lacking in the whole bowler department...they haven't been able to put it together. Soccer and basketball are two of the growing sports in India.

Yeah, India has had some great batsmen, but they've been lacking in the whole bowler department...they haven't been able to put it together. Soccer and basketball are two of the growing sports in India.

This isn't a cricket thread, but India has one of the brightest young bowling stars in Test Cricket right now. Ishant Sharma was awesome during the recent Australian tour.

Wow...this is pretty offensive...India is so focused on education. Everyone spends their high school years getting tutoring to take the standardized test to place into engineering or medical colleges. I can say that my parents' generation always puts an emphasis on studying, and as an American, I certainly live a more active lifestyle. I don't know why India doesn't have more gold medalists. Some of the people are absolutely dirt poor. Some people are rich, and they focus on academic achievements. I don't know if there's an emphasis on Olympic sports. Also, India doesn't manipulate government records for its own advantage...ahem...

The curry and other comments don't have a place on this (or any other board). Having said that, focus on education has nothing to do with India not doing better at the games (nor Canada).

Korea, for example, is extremely focused on education, to a point where kids are sent to literally cram "prison" camps to study for their version of SAT, I remember going to 5 (FIVE!) extra hours of supervised study after school during grade school, yet we always played sports and were hugely interested in baseball, soccer, taekwondo, etc. Same for Japan, and these two countries are in top 10 in medal standings with 9-10 golds.

Lack of funds also don't make a stronger argument - some of the African countries are just as poor, with even more political strife, yet they do well in track & field and other sports.

Manipulating government records? Now China has its share of problems but tell me what's worse - manipulating birth records or pumping its athletes with PEDs? Both are pretty despicable to me.

Manipulating government records? Now China has its share of problems but tell me what's worse - manipulating birth records or pumping its athletes with PEDs? Both are pretty despicable to me.

Are you implying that China has a history of one and not the other? China used to be a huge doping offender - until they really, REALLY wanted to be chosen to host the Olympic Games and cleaned up their act.

Are you implying that China has a history of one and not the other? China used to be a huge doping offender - until they really, REALLY wanted to be chosen to host the Olympic Games and cleaned up their act.

True - but the point still stands, that China doing both document fixing and doping has nothing to do with India's lack of medals in the Olympics.

True - but the point still stands, that China doing both document fixing and doping has nothing to do with India's lack of medals in the Olympics.

Maybe a the point to be taken form this is that China takes the Olympic Games and international sport so seriously that they'll risk national reputation and lie and cheat (as well as spend endless amounts of money) to gain success, while India just doesn't give a shit. The people and the government of India just don't assign much value to the Olympic Games, therefore India performs quite poorly.

Maybe a the point to be taken form this is that China takes the Olympic Games and international sport so seriously that they'll risk national reputation and lie and cheat (as well as spend endless amounts of money) to gain success, while India just doesn't give a shit. The people and the government of India just don't assign much value to the Olympic Games, therefore India performs quite poorly.

That's correct. Thus the title of the thread. India and some of the larger countries do not do as well as one may expect (aka Canada), and this thread discusses possible reasons why.

And yeah, China took Olympics quite seriously, as they should. It's a matter of national pride. They made their share of mistakes and still haven't owned up to them, but it's really going too far to picture the entire nation's efforts in hosting a fantastic Olympic as "risk[ing] national reputation and lie and cheat (as well as spend endless amounts of money) to gain success." Here's some breaking news: every host country has spent a ton of money to build infrastructure, stadiums, athletics programs, to "gain success". And yeah, every country has its share of cheaters and dopers too, from former Soviet blocks, Canada, China, and here in good old US of A. No need to take a potshot at a country that, by most measures, have gone great lengths to not only show its sports prowess, but also be a gracious host despite the unfortunate random acts of violence.

Personally I could not care less whether India won 2 golds or 20. What is interesting is some cultural or political backgrounds in why some larger countries, as you put it "doesn't give a shit" and under-perform versus some of the much smaller nations.

No need to take a potshot at a country that, by most measures, have gone great lengths to not only show its sports prowess, but also be a gracious host despite the unfortunate random acts of violence.

China has gone to great lengths to censor political speech, whether denying a former Gold Medalist a visa, sending senior citizens to a labor camp for exercising the right to assemble, or removing access to information proving they cheated. For that, there will always be a need to "take a potshot," for they deserve it, and whole lotta (more) hate.

And yeah, every country has its share of cheaters and dopers too, from former Soviet blocks, Canada, China, and here in good old US of A. No need to take a potshot at a country that, by most measures, have gone great lengths to not only show its sports prowess, but also be a gracious host despite the unfortunate random acts of violence.

There's a fundamental difference between systematic state-supported cheating at sports and random acts of cheating performed by individual atheltes in freer systems. China has a history of doping, period. After German reunification, guess who hired all the East German coaches and medical experts...

The only thing that made the Chinese sport system clean up its act was pressure from IOC, and having been upset by Sydney in bidding for 2000. I worry a little, now that China doesn't have an upcoming Games to keep them honest, that they may revert to their old ways. I sense they won't, but who knows.

Don't take that as a knock on the Chinese as hosts - but as competitors, they have a long way to go before fully re-gaining the worlds trust.

That's correct. Thus the title of the thread. India and some of the larger countries do not do as well as one may expect (aka Canada), and this thread discusses possible reasons why.

But that question has already been answered (they don't give a shit). As simplistic as that sounds, that's really the gist of it. There is no system, no infrastructure, no incentive for kids or their parents to put effort into athletics. Having 1 billion or 10 billion people is irrelevant. It really is kinda obvious.

So I'm not sure what the point of this thread is. Unless it's a joke/parody thread designed to expose unfunny idiots. If that's what it is, I can get on board with that.

There's a fundamental difference between systematic state-supported cheating at sports and random acts of cheating performed by individual atheltes in freer systems. China has a history of doping, period. After German reunification, guess who hired all the East German coaches and medical experts...

The only thing that made the Chinese sport system clean up its act was pressure from IOC, and having been upset by Sydney in bidding for 2000. I worry a little, now that China doesn't have an upcoming Games to keep them honest, that they may revert to their old ways. I sense they won't, but who knows.

Don't take that as a knock on the Chinese as hosts - but as competitors, they have a long way to go before fully re-gaining the worlds trust.

FnL, I respect your opinion but there's a lot of irony in your post. The history of Chinese athletes should not be used to make a blanket statement in this year's contingent (and Sydney's), which you have clearly done in your past posts.

No doubt there was a checkered past. No arguing there.

There's also no doubt that other than the gymnasts', there have been no other Chinese athletes were involved in any controversy this year. There's also no doubt that they have made strides in many sports that they weren't even in contention in the past. Credit should be given to where it's due. The "best" baseball players in MLB are attracted to the "free" system that involves millions of capitalistic dollars - is that any more noble than the "state-sponsored" athletes program of communist countries?

My point, is that you seem to be taking the past to make blanket statements about the present regarding the accomplishments of the Chinese squad. I was rooting against Chinese athletes whenever they competed against an American or Korean squads, but by my measure your indictment on the current Chinese sports system and its members seem unfair.

China has gone to great lengths to censor political speech, whether denying a former Gold Medalist a visa, sending senior citizens to a labor camp for exercising the right to assemble, or removing access to information proving they cheated. For that, there will always be a need to "take a potshot," for they deserve it, and whole lotta (more) hate.

Hendu, if you take that approach there's no country that doesn't deserve a "potshot". Why not go back to WW2 and never never credit to the German or Japanese athletes? Those countries, by all historical accounts, have had just as many wrong-doings in how they ran their sports programs as Chinese of Eastern bloc countries in the past.

I just take the efforts of this year's Chinese' athletes to be outstanding, and deserve credit, despite the history, and despite the actions of the state present and past.

FnL, I respect your opinion but there's a lot of irony in your post. The history of Chinese athletes should not be used to make a blanket statement in this year's contingent (and Sydney's), which you have clearly done in your past posts.

No doubt there was a checkered past. No arguing there.

There's also no doubt that other than the gymnasts', there have been no other Chinese athletes were involved in any controversy this year. There's also no doubt that they have made strides in many sports that they weren't even in contention in the past. Credit should be given to where it's due. The "best" baseball players in MLB are attracted to the "free" system that involves millions of capitalistic dollars - is that any more noble than the "state-sponsored" athletes program of communist countries?

My point, is that you seem to be taking the past to make blanket statements about the present regarding the accomplishments of the Chinese squad. I was rooting against Chinese athletes whenever they competed against an American or Korean squads, but by my measure your indictment on the current Chinese sports system and its members seem unfair.

I think you'll note that I quite specficially said that China cleaned up their act on doping. I don't mind a nice robust state sponsored system at all - let each have their own approach, as long as they play by the rules.

That said, the Chinese government and sport system do have some work to do in the area of long-term credibility - if you cheated me once, you really, REALLY have to play clean, for a while to earn my trust back. Only time will tell if China has truly embraced drug-free sport long-term, or if they only played along to go after the carrot of hosting a Games and to avoid the stick of global humiliation at their own games.

I might add, I'll NEVER hold participation in a state-sponsored doping program against an athlete from a totalitarian state. Those poor bastards are the biggest victims of all - they get freaky stuff put in their boides against their will and sometimes without their knowledge, and while I believe they truly love their sports, whatever they've done becomes pretty much null...look at the East Germans today. While I get to look back on my days in sport with fond memories and feel good about my meager accomplishments, I doubt my East German colleagues are really able to do the same. I bet there are a lot of medals buried in a lot of sock drawers from that era...

Hendu, if you take that approach there's no country that doesn't deserve a "potshot". Why not go back to WW2 and never never credit to the German or Japanese athletes? Those countries, by all historical accounts, have had just as many wrong-doings in how they ran their sports programs as Chinese of Eastern bloc countries in the past.

I just take the efforts of this year's Chinese' athletes to be outstanding, and deserve credit, despite the history, and despite the actions of the state present and past.

You know...maybe they just don't care about the Olympics enough to pour money into it from the top. It's a very decentralized state with a lot of more important things for its overworked gubmint to think about.