Im new to Grey knights, hell, I'm new to 40k in general as its been years and years since i last played. I got swept up in fantasy. But I'm back now... here is what i've come up with for my 1500 list ( people around my area typically only play 1500 max, its rare they go over) anyway, without further ado... my list:

I know roughly my plan, and I know roughly whats missing from the list.

whats missing: Anti-Tank, Anti Aircraft, Inquisitorial Henchmen.

From my limited experience, I've conceived the plan of deepstriking fighty units in, using the homer to help with positioning, and the summoning spell. I feel that grey knights are pretty decent when it comes to combat.. but then we pay the points for that. at near 1100 I've got just 14 models... and most of them want to be in combat. Henchmen are cheap, so i was thinking of flooding the rest of my points with henchmen. but the problem lies in what henchmen, I have the problem of anti tank and anti aircraft. I feel if i could get into combat, with the models already in my list tanks wouldnt be much of a problem... aircraft on the other hand, i'll be chasing around the table all game.

So what do you recommend to deal with aircraft? after watching a few youtube vids, the flying skip (stormraven) looks capable... but it also seems fragile.

Well, to summarise, what tweeks would you make with the current list... and what would you add, 405 points to spend freely... go!

The units I would recommend to choose from (without really knowing your playing style) would be:- one or two henchmen warband squad since they're considered Troops w/ Coteaz- one squad of 10 strike squads possibly with a transport (good anti-deep strike defense w/ their warp quake power)- Stormraven is actually very capable and is tougher than most other fliers out there.- dreadnought w/ 2 x TWL autocannons + psybolt ammo is cheap and very effective dakka

Hope this helps. Enjoy your stay!

_________________"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

what henchmen load-out would you suggest? I'm probably going to need shooty henchmen because i'll be deep striking most of the rest of my army in.

I would consider a strike squad, but as I've gradually been building up to 1500, I've lost faith in them... they seem to melt away. Maybe i'm just not using them right though.

Skip with wings, besides the aesthetics its does seem to cater to most needs. But exactly because of that, its a prime target. and its only a single model... and my model count is already pretty low

are dreadnoughts good? sorry if this sounds weird, but when i used to play 40k, i played CSM, and they were beyond bad...also, if i were to take dreadnoughts I would have to drop the dreadknights... or just have 1 lone dreadnought... which seems a little like heavy firepower bait

I'm beginning to think more and more like henchmen are the way to go, count as troop choice and they can bring an assortment of tools to the table... but what tools would be most beneficial...

Hi zhambah, welcome to the forums 2 H.Q's at 1500pts is normaly considered one to many. So the choice is between coteaz and the Lib. Both are level 2 paykers, both have a 2+ armour save, coteaz will give you inquisitorial henchman as troops and help with getting first turn. As you are looking at them I would keep coteaz. Unless your battle plan revolves around his base spells then I would be takeing Divination as a spell list and always taking the base spell as it makes 1 squads guns twin linked (this is how we deal with flyers). Strike squads are not bad, they bring things to the table inquisitorial troops do not, they die as fast as normal marines and are worth more (they have psy powers and better damage output so this equals out ( unless you ask a marine player and them we are undercosted ).Dreads are a good choice, points are low and the damage output is good, take the twin linked auto cannons and psy bolts and you have more range then most and 4 twinlinked S8 shots. Take 2 of them min.Stormraven is one of the best flyers in the game next to the chaos dragon, necrons need numbers to make them good.Dreadknights are better then they were in the last ed but still suffer from getting shot to hell before they get to hand to hand, most of the guns that will be strong enough to W them will also bypass your armour, and a 5+ invo is not enough.If you go armour now then you have to go with lots or none, so if taking dreadnoughts, you will also need to have razors, which fits in with the inquisitorial henchmen as you can get a TL H bolter at S6 for a very low price. As most vechiles nowdays do not blow up they then become cover for your troops and dreads to hide behind and get cover saves.An agis line is also a good way to go, you get about 30cm of 4+ cover save to place on the board and for an extra investment you get a gun with skyfire and interceptor.The standard mix for inquisitor units is 1. Long range with 3 x plasma cannons mabe a Jakero or 2 (no more then 2) and some plasma henchmen, sitting on a defence line with a razorback.2. Mid range, stormbolter henchmen with plasma and melta, in chimera. 3. Close combat, death cults with crusader support and some melta henchmen (to pop transports). Chimera.4. Throw downs, 3 x stormbolter henchmen and a TL H Bolter, or T.L Las.If you stick with the lib then rember that the Tele hommer will work with the deep striking but not summoning.Hope this helps

Ah, I was relying on the librarian spells more than coteaz's... also relying on the teleporter homer... but since you say the summoning spell wont work together with the homer, That plan is likely out of the window.

May I ask, why it doesn't work? because the homer says it works via deepstrike, and the summoning spell uses the deep strike rules. I must of overlooked something, but for clarification can you enlighten me?

If what you say is true (and im sure it is) i'll have to drop the librarian, and take personal teleportors... which works out about the same price... all i lose is a lib for 10 points lol (you can see why i want to make sure I can't use the summoning spell that way)

Yeah I was always going to take divination. its a beast of a lore

I've already experienced the "Grey Knights are overpowered" rant, even though I lost. Fortunately I'm used to it as I've been playing Daemons of Chaos in fantasy for years.

Hmm, because you say take 2 dreads minimum I will likely leave them out, they seem like strong dakka... but my army doesn't have armour, so they would be prime targets for meltas.

Its funny, you mentioned chaos and necrons, and they are the 2 armies my friends play... hence why i need some AA. This again suffers from a low number of armoured models. perhaps I should create 2 lists, and see which performs better

Yes I was seriously considering investing in an aegis... I think you just made up my mind

I think a mix of 1 and 2 are my best bets... but could you explain 4... what does "throw downs" mean? what role would that perform?

You have been a great help, thank you ever so much for you input, and I'll get back to you with some reworked lists tomorrow... at a more socialable hour

Throw downs, cheep means of getting a 1. Scoring unit without much threat (they will not be shoot in the first few turss, 2. a Razorback. They open the door to getting razorbacks on the field for the cheepest points cost. The storm bolters just gives them the ability to kill one to 2 man marine squads in late game. At 3 men they will never be testing at below 25% (needing a doubble 1 if they break so the Ld stays at an 8 even when broken (they will normaly get all blown away but it can help).As for the hommer, the line in the codex under the description is "Note that the teleport hommer only works for units that are teleporting, not other means" page 62.Summoning just uses the deepstrike rules, not teleport page 25 grey knight codex.So you can teleport the units safely but cannot summon units to the libs position.The best use for the lib with the hommer is in combo with Mordrak, where they arrive in the first turn and then other units teleport in around them, but this will not work at 1500pts.

Before I start buying things up left right and center... which is more viable to grey knights, no armour or lots of armour? also, while building the first list, I noticed i had 6 plasma cannons, how effective would a template spam list be in the current edition.

Again... thanks for any help and input, I'm learning a lot and its all gratefully appreciated

There are elements that are good and bad in both lists.List 1. Not much anti flyer in here, only the terminators which will have one psyker in there at least.Plasm cannons are good but they cannot shoot flyers. Where list 2 has plenty of anti flyer, I like this list better. What is your thinking with the double heavy bolters on the chimeras, in my opp raxorbacks are good with T.L H.Bolters and psy bolts (s6), keep the s6 multilazer. 6 deathcults in a rhino are just screaming not going to do a thing, you have to spend a turn out of the vechile before you can charge. Drop them, take 2 squads of accolites at 3 man to toss into the stormravens and pick up another couple of razorbacks. The stormravens can drop them off late game on objectives and if you lose them who cares (they are 12 point units, if you want, then toss a flamer in there as well for clearing objectives).

really?you're deffinately right, the second list has a lot more anti aircraft, but the first list has more anti infantry... now lists round my area always bring some form of infantry... but they bring maybe 1 flyer (bar necrons scythe spam)

I mean, i have 8 plasma guns and 2 psycannons... it may take a couple rounds, but the threat will be dealt with... the AA is quite rediculous in the second list, theres so much heavy firepower.

The first list i think would be good against most armies in my area, but the second one fair a lot better against necrons... but thats just me... and as the title suggest im still very much a noob at 6th.

My thinking on taking chimeras instead of razorbacks, is they have better front armour, and 5 troops can fire... meaning i get my plasma guns and plasma cannons and the likes... if i stuck them in a razorback they would only get to fire once the tank was wrecked, or the troops got out... and whats the point in buying armour if your not going to use it?

yeah... i was trying to squeeze a combat unit into the list at the end, unfortunately they would either be better served in other henchmen groups. or the points entirely would be better spent

as for the thing about stormravens and razorbacks... can you do that... buy a dedicated transport for a squad, but not use it and use something else?

Sorry, dont know your local meta, but mine is tripple dragon, necron flyer spam, that type of things, the second list will still handle infantry, armour and flyers, the first one will not do flyers very well. As for necron flyer spam then you would have to take Tau to handle them.Not questioning the chimeras, just the choice to swap out the multi laser for a 2nd h.bolter.Yes you can, the stormraven is not a dedicated transport, so any unit can ride in it to start, including a dread, and still get a dedicated transport that they never use, you can also drop empty drop pods onto the field (we do not get them but others can).

Just thought I would do a quick update, with the recent fotm rerollers, flyers have really been hit hard, half my local gaming group are now playing tau, and while my previous list worked with 2 stormravens, i found them to be chancey. either they worked really well or they got shot down so fast it wasn't worth bringing them. this has only got worse with the release of tau to the point I've decided to take them out of my list.

Slightly under-budget, but I've stuck as to where to put the 27 remaining points. I'm Hesitant to add more points to the Inquisitor, as hes going with the most expensive unit in my army to man the quad gun. The only other option to me is more inquisitorial henchmen. adding to an existing unit runs the risk of making them a primary target, where as I am running a list where wherever you hit me its not going to hurt that much (the exception to this is the servitors) if i add another unit, it would be a 5 man unit of warrior acolytes that's pretty much gifting first blood to the enemy... I'm in a quandary

So I pose 3 questions to my brothers:1) Given this list, and my meta (too much anti air) if theres anything what would you alter? where would you trim the fat? essentially... what changes would you make?2) I'm still using a few proxies, most notably a lot of the inquisitorial henchmen squads. I'm unhappy with the crusader models, (also the price... £10 for 2 non-character models seems a little excessive) I've found suitable models for replacement, however I'm in need of a stormshield. and every storm shield i see has another chapters logo or emblem embedded on it. does anybody have any suggestions for alternative grey knight themed stormshields?3) how does this day find you?

Well lets take a look at what you have here, first question, are others not taking flyers bacause of Tau, the answer to this will normaly be that they are either going with none or lots, so how can the list be changed for this?Is there a weekness to your list, well hand to hand is not a strength you have, there a plenty of scoring units but none of them are strong and have a good ability to move forward. So what can fill that void, how about a strike squad in a rhino with psy bolts and 2 psy cannons, the points can come from a dread and one of the 111 pt inquis squads. Or instead of a rhino you can take a razorback and steal a chimera from one of the inquisitorial squads on turn 1.2. For crusaders I normaly use models from warmachine, as in austraila the price is better.3. This day finds me well.

Thanks for the quick reply, most other armies have dropped all flyers from their list, there's one chaos list still running a single helldrake

Yeah, I'm mostly running a gun line army. Hoping to kill the enemy before they get to me. really relying on cover and armour to protect my units. The only time i would be wanting to move forward, would be late game to go claim objectives. I'm normally happy hang back and make my enemy come to me

Must say it never even occurred to me to squeeze a strike squad in. The way the army list has developed has seen me being more and more defensive, I see the advantage of having a strike squad would be to split them into combat squad and put a tank hunting unit in a vehicle to go hunt other units. The other option is to keep them all together to soak wounds.

The main problem that I can foresee is my entire army is hanging back, except one unit, that's charging to my enemy. That unit is going to be a target to even the most inexperienced of wargamers. It will be quite obvious that that is my combat unit. Likewise if I hang back with them and wait for my enemy to move up, its just 1 unit against an entire army. and while GK are decent in combat, there are limits lol.

When you suggested a strike squad my mind got thinking what other squads could I of overlooked. I feel that yes, my melee capabilities are nonexistent, and armour 13/14 does give me a bit of bother. So I had another look at other possibilities where the points could be spent

Con's:half the wound count of a strike squad of the same pointsLack of models, could make them unreliablePutting more models in would effectively change how my entire list works

TechmarinePro's:Has Plenty of things that he could fixCould bolster my Aegis Defense LineOrbital Pie Plates would be decent in my meta with a lot infantry armies being used at the moment

Con's:1 model unitDoesn't address the combat issues my army has, though a conversion beamer could take out the AV 13/14 I'm having a little problem with.Inferior fire power compared to other unitscan't claim objectives

Nemesis DreadknightPro's:A Beast in meleeIncinerator addresses some issues against cover hogging armiesImmune to most forms of instant deathCuts through AV 13/14 like butterFar easier at getting to enemy lines compared to other units

Con's:Becomes a target magnet for any and all fire that can't hurt vehiclesCan't claim objectives

Purgation SquadPro's:Can hide behind a wall all game and fire at units that would chew them upSuperior firepower to most other units

Con's:Still have trouble with high armourExpensive unitCan't claim objectives

In my opinion looking at the pro's and cons, I'm probably best going for the Dreadknight. it would be a prime target. but while they are shooting at my Dreadknight they aren't shooting at my servitors. and anything with low AP value normally comes with high strength, which will be used to target the tanks/dreads. so i would think the Dreadknight will usually get his 2+ save.

whats your opinion on this? Am I overlooking something?

as for the crusader models, its the shields I need, I've found some suitable models they just don't come with shields. and there are no Grey knight storm shields bar Draigo's and Hector Rex's. and each come with its downside. Draigo has a massive terminator arm attached to it, and Hector Rex's is £30 a model, and its nigh impossible to get the bits independent of the actual model.

so yeah, if you can recommend any shields that are plain-ish and big. I wanted something like the size chaos warriors shields. but without the chaos symbols emblazoned everywhere. One thing I did think of, the brass etched symbols from forgeworld have an imperial symbols.

If you want to make your dreadknight scoring then get a grand master In all honesty I like techmarines a lot, they don't need to be scoring they're independent characters! Just slap them on a scoring unit. If you run a conversion beamer on him then put him with an inquisitor to give him twin-linked goodness. The only reason I don't use a Purgation Squad is the low range. They pack a huge punch, but that range really hurts. I don't like terminators because I'd rather have a lot of PAGK. Because when one terminator dies, it really does feel you lost a lot (compared to a PA).

however, the shields are a bit meh in my estimation, alas the search continues lol.

The problem with getting a grand master, it would mean dropping a inquisitor, which would also mean dropping servitors, and without servitors, there's not much need for jokaero, or crusaders, and without them it just becomes another bog standard unit.

I would be dropping 1 of the 2 main squads in my army. just to make the dreadknight scoring, and you've gotta remember, this dreadknight is going to be lit up with incoming fire. I very rarely see the dreadknight finishing the game. so making it scoring isn't that big of an issue.

If I take a techmarine and slap him with a inquisitorial unit with a conversion beamer like you suggest. we have an issue of range, the mini squads are 24" min and the bigger squads (with the exception of the jokaero's lascannon) are under 42" as well. so im not getting to full benefit if i attach him to a unit. If I did attach him, it would have to be to a larger unit, (because max 24" range, means as soon as the enemy moves 6" when within full firing range. the conversion beamer gets significantly worse.) and with him attached to a larger unit, this means that that unit becomes even more of a prime target. a major portion of my points would be tied up in a unit that doesn't have all that much defensive capabilities

As for the purgation squad, I hear ya. I'm basically going to have to setup behind a wall, and hope my enemy is stupid enough to wander into range. that doesn't sound like a very good tactic.

And as for the terminators, I think you feel that is because you did lose something decent, whereas a PAGK isn't all that. its still half the points for a PAGK than it is for a terminator though. and I find them far more fragile, I mean, if both get hit my AP2 weapons, the PAGK is dead, but the terminator still has a 1/3 chance of living. never mind if its AP3

I think I will go with the dreadknight, I will just have to do my best to hide the giant monstrosity before it gets shot to hell.

If you went for terminators they can ride in a Chimera as well (keep them to 6 and below), as for the strike squad, they can still be used in the gunline, and then have a counter assult role, same for the terminators. The strike squad also has the warp quake ability so can stop deep strikers coming in on top of you. The dread knight can do the same roll but cannot hide very well, but you dont have to hide him, he will get a 4+ cover save behind the aegis line and will draw lots of fire form others in the army. Still a powerfull unit, so you still need to look at what you want.

but of late i've been really considering dropping a minihenchmen squad (the amount of 1's i roll for gets hot is unbelievable) and a psyflemen dread and a crusader. and in their place getting a purgation squad and a razorback with lazcannon

my problem stems from the fact I started with 3 psyflemen dreads... and if I do this i'll be down to 1. and besides my quadgun, its the only reliable anti aircraft i've got. granted i now only see a flyer one in 5 games. it still worries me.

While is nice to play with a lot of acolites, they are very fragile and as such, they die easily no matter what you do, once they leave the safety of their transport. To cope with this you can either: buy the a transport, give them as much gear and/or bodies as possible to make them more resilient, or minimize your units to the minimum necessary.

I tend to go for the later. 3 to 4 acolites is more than enough since they almost always stay in their transport until late game. So at the risk to complicate your list building even further (sorry) I would suggest the following:

Take only 3x plasma acolites and pack the into a chimera that's about 100 pts more or less if I'm not mistaken.If you are really fond of Las/Plas Razorbacks then take 3 storm bolter acolites (you can take 4 if points allow). That's 106 points if I'm not mistaken.You can take the Jokaeros (2 at the most), the OXI and the servitors as one big shooty squad and put the behind the aegis.

So with this you can pack up to 3 plasma squads in Chimeras, 2 Storm Bolter units in Las/Plas RBs, and a big shooty unit of space monkeys and mechanized zombies. Your units are well protected, and will be able to shoot some at your opponent, while the dreads and NDK will handle big threats around the board.

I hope it helps and look forward to some bat-reps with your final list!

haha, im a long way off from doing a bat rep. still churning over the rules. me and the 2 friends that recently got back into 40k are still trying to get a game where we dont screw up one rule or another lol.

As for what you've suggested. i'm a bit confused. I take it your opinion is to keep the acolytes and psyfleman. but you want me to minimise the cost of the acolyte squads so i can replace a chimera with another razorback with a decent weapon? atleast i think thats whats going on. if you could copy my list and paste it with your alterations it would be easier to view... sorry about this

If i'm honest i prefer chimeras. they don't have high str shots, but 6 str 5 shots is nothing to be sniffed at. also, if i was to take las/plas razorbacks, i wouldnt take stormbolters on the acolytes, as they will likely die as soon as they get out of the vehicle.

anyway. overall i get the impression you dont like the idea of the purgation squads and razorback. Thank you for your insight brother... it was... confusing lol

This means that, by dropping a few acolytes you get to have one more vehicle and of course more shooting power, while protecting your troops (6 of them), which is nice and mobile.

Now I can agree that the SB Acolytes will die once out of their transport, but so do all acolytes, so no point in wasting huge amounts of points in something that will die as quickly as you can say sex. But take into account that the SB is the nex best thing after plasma since you're always shooting 2 shots @24", which is always nice. Much better than waiting for that 12" range to shoot 2 shots with your bolter.

I put the plasmas on the Chimera since it has lots of fire points, so you can maximize your firepower with the plasmas (that's 3 S7, 3S6, 3S5 shots every turn if you move 6", more if you rapid fire) add Coteaz and the Inq to both of them and you have twin linking in both Chimeras for more hurt on your opponent (and get to reroll those 1 to boot). You can go full RB or full Chimera if you like, and points allow.

As for points, I think this list is just over 1500 pts, but that's easily fixed by droping the Las/Plas and use the HB+Psyboltammo.

So basically, taking out 10 S5 AP 4, 6 S5 AP 4. I can get 2 more S9 shots... granted, you would get more shots if the stormbolter acolytes weren't loaded in the vehicles. but then they are as good as dead. also, with your list I seem to be sacrificing the relative safety of crusaders. so that means no quad gun. or if there is a quad gun, it better kill its target and hope nothing else can shoot at the user.

I'm sorry donfer, but that list really isn't keeping up with the firepower. and as I had already established, the fire power of the purgation list more than my current list its that's the current contender for most firepower. coupled with survivability of course.

And I'll definitely give you, your survivability is better than mine, you have 1 more tank on the field after all. 2 if you go with the purgation list. but at what point does an armour list fall short because of a lack of fire power

Would your list be a better list. against landraiders, almost certainly you have 13 shots that can hurt a landraider. my first list only has 11. However the purgation list has 24 shots that could hurt a land raider. But like I've said, I've lost an armour to make this.

Your solution was to add more armour to my list. so maybe I'm going about this the wrong way. I was talking about taking an armour away to increase the fire power

I have just thought of a question while writing this, the aegis defence line quad gun, could it essentially cover a ruin the quad gun be places inside the ruin? probably not... seems a bit cheesy but I thought I would ask while its on my mind

also, you were said with the chimeras i would be getting 3S7(plasmas) 3S6(?), 3S5(Heavy Bolter) could i ask wheres the 3S6 shots coming from? because chimeras dont have access to psybolt)

you are right on one thing though... i should do away with those bolter acolytes

ah sorry, I didnt include the aegis, the hq's or the dreadknight because all lists had those so it seemed a bit redundant

In my lists they were shots that could be fired every turn, not just 1 turn every game. sorry for the confusion. your right though, on turn 1 you have 59 shots + coteaz + NDK if you jump out your vehicles and everything is within range. otherwise its 41 shots + coteaz and NDK

but my old list has 55 shots + coteaz + NDK. and the purgation squad has 62 shots + coteaz + NDK that they can fire every round, they dont need to get out of vehicles to fire. because either they are already out or they have enough fire ports