Re: Jean Paul Guerlain racist comments - DON'T BUY GUERLAIN

Originally Posted by DULLAH

I appreciate your valiant intent and righteous nature Hirch, sticking up so quickly for a minority group.
But I don't see it as outright hateful xenophobic malice & mischief like the US extreme right.
This seems more like a tasteless attempt at humor by an old wasp, worthy of scorn,
but not a post-apology-boycott imo. He's apologized, with seemingly genuine emotion.

Andas a consumer, there are so many people involved with Guerlain, that no matter what the head says, it's the juice that matters in the end, I'm not all that big on Guerlain anyways, they are not a great masculine house at all, imo. Vetiver Sport is just good enough to own, & their Eauxs are bested by Patricia Nicolai, Creed, and now even Penhaligons imo. No big loss even if I did boycott.

edit: after seeing another translation, it actually does seem dismissively mean-spirited.
the man is an @sshole.

Could you post a link to the translation please, Dullah.
Since when were black people a minority?

"Don’t try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. ” - Henri Matisse.
"Wear R de Capucci" - Hirch Duckfinderreviews

Re: Jean Paul Guerlain racist comments - DON'T BUY GUERLAIN

Originally Posted by rogalal

Wow - I give this thread a day or two tops, because it's getting disturbingly political already...

My two cents: I can only speak as an American, but we seem to have a recurring problem here in the US where someone says or does something utterly racist and cruel, and whenever anyone rightly calls them on it, tons of people come out of the woodwork to defend the racist. It implies that somehow calling someone who is clearly racist a racist is somehow worse than being racist, which is baffling. It's sort of a herd mentality that reenforces unspoken racist social norms and attempts to intimidate victims of racism under the guise of protecting free speech. This wider-scale show of support for the racist then creates a situation where the oppressed people who are the victims of racism are subtly being told that the racist is right and don't you dare fight him (which, in the end, is the exact opposite of the preservation of freedom that the commenters claim is their goal).

OK, so the man made some perfumes you like - does that, or his age, really give him carte blanche to be a dick?

Re: Jean Paul Guerlain racist comments - DON'T BUY GUERLAIN

I am French and all I can say is that Guerlain, being from the older generation, used a well worn, old fashioned French cliche. Yes it sounds racist in our modern, politically correct world. But who does not have an elderly member of the family that says things that, to our ears, sound unbearably prejudiced? I am sure Guerlain hears young French use language that is shocking to him. Nevertheless, he should have chosen his words more carefully since he was speaking publicly.

Re: Jean Paul Guerlain racist comments - DON'T BUY GUERLAIN

Originally Posted by rogalal

Wow - I give this thread a day or two tops, because it's getting disturbingly political already...

My two cents: I can only speak as an American, but we seem to have a recurring problem here in the US where someone says or does something utterly racist and cruel, and whenever anyone rightly calls them on it, tons of people come out of the woodwork to defend the racist. It implies that somehow calling someone who is clearly racist a racist is somehow worse than being racist, which is baffling. It's sort of a herd mentality that reenforces unspoken racist social norms and attempts to intimidate victims of racism under the guise of protecting free speech. This wider-scale show of support for the racist then creates a situation where the oppressed people who are the victims of racism are subtly being told that the racist is right and don't you dare fight him (which, in the end, is the exact opposite of the preservation of freedom that the commenters claim is their goal).

OK, so the man made some perfumes you like - does that, or his age, really give him carte blanche to be a dick?

Re: Jean Paul Guerlain racist comments - DON'T BUY GUERLAIN

And today when I had to go to the gas station, I was trying to pump my gas while minding my own business--and some African American guy with saggy pants had to pull right up next to me blasting his music while pumping his gas. Literally ever other word was nigger. That's the crap that makes my blood boil. I couldn't get my windows rolled up and leave fast enough.

I don't believe in "identity politics" where some people get a pass to do whatever they want because of their ethnicity/gender/etc. It's time we hold everybody to the same standards and do away with the "soft bigotry of low expectations." And that is the real racism in the world right now.

Re: Jean Paul Guerlain racist comments - DON'T BUY GUERLAIN

I, too, don't get the uproar. I'll reiterate comments made prior, that it is fine to get offended, but we live in a society that unfortunately is ALWAYS seeking out ways to be offended. There are more lawsuits and special-interest groups than I could possibly count, and quite frankly THAT'S disturbing. He's an older man, his thoughts and what he says are a reflection upon his upbringing, and a simple slip of the tongue is no reason to boycott, sue or banish. He made a mistake, he apologized and now we forget and move on, no beheading necessary. And for those that feel that they would never possibly be in the same situation that Mr. Guerlain are in when they reach old age, you're being incredibly naive. Fifty years from now, there are bound to be different social norms than there are today, and to act as if those customs that were instilled while growing up will disappear naturally along with changing societal values is a misguided pipe dream.

Re: Jean Paul Guerlain racist comments - DON'T BUY GUERLAIN

Originally Posted by Indie_Guy

I don't believe in "identity politics" where some people get a pass to do whatever they want because of their ethnicity/gender/etc. It's time we hold everybody to the same standards and do away with the "soft bigotry of low expectations."

Exactly. People shouldn't be excused from bad behavior just because of their race, gender - or age.

Re: Jean Paul Guerlain racist comments - DON'T BUY GUERLAIN

I read that, back in the 1970s, David Bowie went to see Frank Sinatra perform in Las Vegas. After the show Bowie wanted to go back stage and meet Sinatra and tell him he had plans to play Sinatra in a biopic. Sinatra refused to meet with Bowie and said that he, "didn't want any fag playing me in a movie."

Re: Jean Paul Guerlain racist comments - DON'T BUY GUERLAIN

Originally Posted by archelon
Not every country had slavery and its not considered a bad word for them.

France did though. It also colonised most of west, central and north africa, building its wealth by exploiting the hard work of the people who lived there. In short, it's offensive. Of course, the way to deal with a public relations misstep of a major company is a boycott.
By all accounts Guerlain's a very charming man, he has apologised and must be forgiven. (charm can hide people's true nature but God can be the judge of that). But by all means boycott LVMH to send a clear message about racism. It is after all the world's largest, richest, most european luxury goods company, all it cares about is money. For it to really understand that racism is wrong, it might need to see a dent in sales. Down with the capitalism.

Last edited by pawful; 18th October 2010 at 04:54 AM.
Reason: insert quote to make sense of it

Re: Jean Paul Guerlain racist comments - DON'T BUY GUERLAIN

Originally Posted by pawful

France did though. It also colonised most of west, central and north africa, building its wealth by exploiting the hard work of the people who lived there.

France's treatment of the slaves in Haiti was one of the most brutal chapters in its history, ending countless lives yet, at its peak, generating fourth fifths of France's wealth. Given that Haiti today is one of the world's poorest and most troubled countries, and France is one of the wealthiest and most powerful, France's colonial legacy both there and elsewhere is all too present in the world to make light of.

Re: Jean Paul Guerlain racist comments - DON'T BUY GUERLAIN

If being shocked and horrified by racism and furthermore moved to action can be qualified as "oppressively-ridiculous political correctness", then Abraham Lincoln was the most asinine, ridiculous PC oppressor in history.

As to the sort-of turn-of-the-century wave of colonial French exoticism, which "exalted" the 'sensuality' of Josephine Baker and other African-descended entertainers, being evolved, egalitarian, or laudable, I'm inclined to disagree.

Re: Jean Paul Guerlain racist comments - DON'T BUY GUERLAIN

It's sad. I can't say I'm outraged by this haughty old man's public gaffe in the same way that slavery in Mauretania or labor conditions in China co-sponsored by the West's shoddy consumerism outrage me. But you'd wish that a man like Guerlain, capable of such refinement and sensibility in his artful line of work, so well-travelled and cosmopolitan, would simply not be capable of harboring a worn-out racist cliché of this sort. Such a callous remark from such a cultivated mind serves as a sorrowful illustration of how segregated and selective civility may be.

Re: Jean Paul Guerlain racist comments - DON'T BUY GUERLAIN

Apparently, he issued an apology that French anti-racism group SOS-Racisme found to be inadequate. They are taking legal action and potentially Guerlain could be issued a fine, should it appear before a magistrate. I wonder how large of a fine he could receive?

Beyond the question of whether such speech is ethical or appropriate (which most of us think it is not), sometimes we in the USA forget that such speech is not universally protected.

Re: Jean Paul Guerlain racist comments - DON'T BUY GUERLAIN

Originally Posted by Indie_Guy

And today when I had to go to the gas station, I was trying to pump my gas while minding my own business--and some African American guy with saggy pants had to pull right up next to me blasting his music while pumping his gas. Literally ever other word was nigger. That's the crap that makes my blood boil. I couldn't get my windows rolled up and leave fast enough.

I don't believe in "identity politics" where some people get a pass to do whatever they want because of their ethnicity/gender/etc. It's time we hold everybody to the same standards and do away with the "soft bigotry of low expectations." And that is the real racism in the world right now.

Re: Jean Paul Guerlain racist comments - DON'T BUY GUERLAIN

Yes it should be handled appropriately by LVMH and all that, but if anyone here is acting surprised by JP's comments, I dare say they are naive.

No matter whether you prejudicially assume all elder white male French men to frequently be making racist comments or not, it is a rather rare ocurrence on public television. I've recorded my thoughts an invite further commentary:http://perfumedpolitics.blogspot.com...ins-gaffe.html

Re: Jean Paul Guerlain racist comments - DON'T BUY GUERLAIN

Originally Posted by Sugandaraja

France's treatment of the slaves in Haiti was one of the most brutal chapters in its history, ending countless lives yet, at its peak, generating fourth fifths of France's wealth. Given that Haiti today is one of the world's poorest and most troubled countries, and France is one of the wealthiest and most powerful, France's colonial legacy both there and elsewhere is all too present in the world to make light of.

And much more recently (about a month ago) France was suspected of racial discrimination in the case of Roma population expulsion. The passing of the burqa ban is yet another issue.

Re: Will NEVER buy a Guerlain fragrance after this....

It is pretty outrageous, imo. But he's an old man, old people tend to say things that are more indicative of attitudes of decades past. If it helps, I don't think he's very involved with the company anymore.