Wow a nurse with so little education earns more than doctors in most countries and we keep wondering why our health care cost is increasing. In the end looks like low skilled nurses will be the death of the US!

1:45 pm February 25, 2013

cdg wrote:

Not fair! Female nurses with large bosoms should earn more than their male (or flat-chested female) counterparts.

1:51 pm February 25, 2013

Dave wrote:

Why do we even have the term "male nurse?" That's sexist.

1:56 pm February 25, 2013

Patrick Murphy, RN, CHPN wrote:

There are a couple of problems with what you just said.

For one, nurses don't get "so little" education, nursing programs are highly competitive to get in to. In the past, you could become a Registered Nurse by attending a 1-2 year diploma program at a hospital, but since the 1960s, science degrees have become the norm. Registered Nurses that you see nowadays most likely have an associates or bachelors - nurse ANESTHETISTS (and practitioners) have masters degrees, and are compensated in a way that's consistent with their education -and- the high-risk nature of their job.

Crucially, Nurses are educated in mostly everything physicians are educated in. We both study anatomy/physiology, microbiology, and pharmacology. We both learn the same assessment techniques of inspection, auscultation, percussion, and palpation. The difference is in clinical praxis: physicians spend thousands of hours at the bedside learning to diagnose and treat diseases, whereas nurses spend hundreds of hours at the bedside learning how to perform care.

I don't know if you've noticed, but there is a SHORTAGE of skilled nurses that is causing our health care delivery system to tank, and high wages are a pretty good method to encourage people to join up - however the bottleneck is actually in the shortage of masters degree nurses (the only qualification required to teach nursing science at a university), limiting the number of new nurses that can be graduated. There's no shortage of people who want to join the profession but limited space in classes is part of what is perpetuating the shortage (also the high average age of the nurse, around 45 for RNs and 55 for MSNs).

Nurses make up about 60 percent of the health care delivery system. We RUN the health care delivery system. What is really breaking the system is the schizophrenic public/private partnership that health care runs on in the US. Is health care a right or a privilege? Should health care generate monitary value or is improved quality of life enough? We haven't decided as a culture, and that indecision is clogging our emergency departments with patients who really should not be there.

Fortunately, nurse-led innovations in health care are leading the way in the transition from care-at-a-facility to care-at-home, so while you couch potatoes can bitch and moan all you want about how much nurses are paid, it's going to be a nurse that tends to you when you're dying, not a doctor. I think anyone who thinks about it would agree that nurses should be highly trained and highly paid.

Now, many people confuse Nurses with Nurse's Aides, and there's an important distinction to be made there. Because of the shortage, many tasks that used to be done by nurses are now performed by unlicensed supportive personnel (like the relationship between a lawyer and a paralegal). Aides only receive a few weeks training, and nurses are expected to instruct and train them on the job (nurses get asked to do a lot of things nobody else wants to pay for). Aides extend the labor of nurses by performing delegated tasks that don't require clinical judgement or critical thinking.

Professional Nurses are actively engaged in transforming health care in the US into something more just, humane, and efficient. The moral hazard present in MEDICINE, however, often works to line people's pockets. Example: A bunch of cardiologists get together and pool their money to make a fancy specialty cardiac hospital. They siphon away all the rich patients and juicy insurance claims, leaving the local community hospital to deal with the medicare/medicaid cases. Lucrative for the doctor, but does this really serve the common good? The nursing profession cares about the common good, it's part of the professional identity. We are the people who are on your side, whether you realize it or not.

1:57 pm February 25, 2013

Rachel Maddow is going to be upset wrote:

Oh my gosh, women nurses earn less than men! Rachel, please scream and yell of sexism. Nevermind that men are more willing than women to work nigh hours,have less flexible schedules and more technical degrees/certifications. That doesn't matter to Rachel.

1:58 pm February 25, 2013

Wage gap disparity wrote:

This tidbit alone, might be enough to explain the disparity between full-time, year-round rates for men vs. women:

"Male nurses are more likely than female nurses to have a doctoral degree, more likely to work evening or night shifts.... Female nurses are more likely to work in doctor’s offices or schools."

My spouse is a nurse. Second and third-shift positions pay higher wages than day-shift. Hospital positions pay higher wages than school-nurse of doctor's office positions. I'd like to see a comparison of the pay of 1,000 nurses... but only third-shift, hospital-employed ER nurses with similar education (i.e. BSN vs. BSN) in major metropolitan areas - then go ahead and average the males and females and report the findings. Maybe there's still a gap, but it would be interesting to see the results regardless.

Too often, the "wage gap" research illustrates a differential and that's the headline - but, then buried in the text, is usually some comment that women tend to value certain non-monetary factors when choosing their careers (schedule flexibility, preferred hours, preferred setting, etc.) and their male counterparts tend to value higher wages, and will more often fore-go some of those other factors to yield higher wages.

1:59 pm February 25, 2013

jcm wrote:

cdg - not only are you as ignorant as Mary 2010 who obviously knows nothing about nurse's specialties but you are also a pig. Have a nice day.

1:59 pm February 25, 2013

Pete wrote:

Mary -- Unless you're being wow'ed by the pay on the LPN end of the spectrum, you should bear in mind that in the right half of that graph you are talking about highly educated professionals with masters and/or doctoral degrees.

If anything, there are savings to be found by better utilizing the full range of clinical health care professionals, including nurses at various levels. There are a great many situations for which a highly specialized (and costly) physician is overkill.

2:00 pm February 25, 2013

Anonymous wrote:

The last paragraph seems to be contradicted by the next to last one.

2:02 pm February 25, 2013

Patrick Murphy, RN, CHPN wrote:

As a male nurse myself, I do find the term "male nurse" somewhat sexist. I chalk this up to lack of education or familiarity with the health care delivery system, common enough among patients. Those of you complaining about how much nurses make should consider the responsibilities and scope of the modern professional nurse. Nurse's Aides are a different story, they only get a few weeks training and nurses are expected to delegate tasks to them that don't require clinical judgement or critical thinking. Believe me, you want your RN or APRN to be a highly motivated, highly trained, and highly paid professional. Your health and safety depend on it. We -are- the health care delivery system. As more care moves from the facility to the home, it's nurse-led interventions that are transforming health care to the benefit of -all-, not the profit of private enterprise.

2:02 pm February 25, 2013

Reality wrote:

Actually, the reason why Nurse Anesthetists have such a high salary is one thing.. supply and demand. The demand for an MSNA is greater than the supply of licensed MSNAs currently. This should even out over time and if payors get their act together, adjust billing for the credential. Anesthesia in general is ripe for the pickin' for cost cutting...

2:05 pm February 25, 2013

Reality wrote:

Actually the reason why Nurse Anesthetists have such high salaries is because of one thing.. supply and demand. Hospitals want them, the supply by schools hasn't kept up yet. We'll see with time if the salary is maintained.. Anesthesia itself is ripe for pickin' by the powers that determine compensation..

2:09 pm February 25, 2013

tjf wrote:

could it be that men are more driven by money then women and therefore focus on that more, therefore earn more? This pay gap has always bothered me. I work in technology and have not seen these differences in pay between men and women working at the same level.

2:12 pm February 25, 2013

Anonymous wrote:

It's a bad sign when our economy revolves around healthcare sector jobs. That means we are not producing a darn thing.

2:13 pm February 25, 2013

Obvious wrote:

Maybe male nurses are better than female ones.

2:16 pm February 25, 2013

BK wrote:

Even though there are more bachelors prepared nurses today, we still have community and technical colleges pumping out 2 year wonders. These nurses are not the ones I want at my bedside.

2:18 pm February 25, 2013

Hospital Observer wrote:

I worked many years ago at a hospital and observed that most of the female nurses were the second income providers of their household. The younger male and female nurses sucked-up all the overtime and off-hour work that paid more $.

Patrick, is this generally the same scenario?

Working in the private sector the last 20+ years I have observed the same thing (generally speaking). Women were the 2nd income providers and also the first line when their kids were sick. Women worked less hours in the office (less face time) and didn't take the high-prifile, high-risk projects tha rewarded leadership and players with more $ and other positions.

Why are these provacative articles still perpetuating the myth that women are paid less because of some sort bias?

2:23 pm February 25, 2013

Matt wrote:

This is a great profession to be used as a case study for the so-called gender pay gap. My spouse is a nurse, and all her friends from work, of both genders, openly acknowledge that the male nurses make more money due to their willingness to take the management positions (that no one wants), their willingness to work the worst shifts (with pay premiums), and their willingness to work more hours per week. And the female nurses never complain - in fact, they LOVE the male nurses, especially because they tend to deal with the worst patients (violent ones and very heavy ones).

It amazes me that our compliant media tolerates Democrat claims of "women make 77 cents on the dollar for the same work as a man." That is so dishonest and inflammatory that anyone who states it (Obama, I'm looking at you) should be publicly scolded for doing so. Even when some are more careful to say 77 cents generally, not "for the same work," the implication for the magnitude systemic sexism is dishonest. The media should not take politicians seriously who are willing to dishonestly exaggerate our problems like that for sensationalism and winning votes. It's hard enough to have a reasoned debate over any issue in this country without the media allowing politicians to freely distort the debate with misleading facts.

2:23 pm February 25, 2013

borborygmi wrote:

The CRNA's employed at the hospital where I work are paid more than I am - and I'm a specialty boarded physician (!). That's truly a head-scratcher, but such are the seemingly random discrepancies we live with under CPT code governance of the reimbursement fee schedule. You are correct though, Reality- anesthesia, among other specialties, has been targeted by the powers that be (i.e., the CMS) for big reimbursement cuts. Anesthesiologists and CRNA's have a bullseye squarely on their backs, and the day of reckoning is nigh. At least they can take solace in the fact that they'll soon have lots of company.

2:23 pm February 25, 2013

Misleading title wrote:

Why isn't this titled: "Nurses with doctoral degrees, working nights shifts at hospitals, and as anesthetists earn more." ? There's nothing here that can be blamed on sexism. What a deceitful title with an article that does nothing to support the false premise of the argument. What's with the gender-baiting articles in the Journal lately?

2:30 pm February 25, 2013

Charleen Larson wrote:

Having been treated by many different nurses, both male and female, I've observed the split is about 50%. The men are much better at placing an IV. They also tend to be younger, on average, than the female nurses. Perhaps they have better eyesight and can more accurately find a good vein.

2:34 pm February 25, 2013

Another worthless study wrote:

This study contradict itself in every which way. Why did the WSJ site it anyway? Bad journalism again WSJ!

2:35 pm February 25, 2013

Patrick Murphy, RN, CHPN wrote:

I started out as an associates degree nurse, and there are several problems with what you said. At a community college, I got MORE hours at the bedside than the students at our state university (which only had to do the minimum number of clinical hours, we did double that).

You obviously aren't aware of the curricular systems involved in nursing education. At the bachelors degree level, nurses get a lot of theory and case management. They are no better prepared for bedside practice than we were in an associates degree program.

The associates degree programs are important because they lower the cost and time barriers to entry while still fulfilling the requirements set out by the national council of state boards of nursing education - we take the same boards (the NCLEX, which is a demon of a test), get signed off on the same competencies, and are equally qualified to enter practice in -most- areas. The education and training that starts with the first job is way more important than what goes on in school anyway. Real learning starts when you enter the profession. School beforehand is just to make sure you don't kill anyone accidentally.

I only accept female nurses at my bedside. The lovely smile, sweet perfume, and wonderful bosoms make my day, every day. A guy tending me is advised to wear a steel cup.

2:42 pm February 25, 2013

Ken G wrote:

"Male nurses are more likely than female nurses to have a doctoral degree, more likely to work evening or night shifts"

And...there's your wage gap right there. The headline for this article should be: "male nurses better educated, work less-desirable hours," but that wouldn't fit the prevailing narrative. And of course, the whole "77 cent" wage gap thing is about as real as the tooth fairy.

2:42 pm February 25, 2013

Hazard Pay wrote:

"Male nurses are more likely than female nurses to have a doctoral degree, more likely to work evening or night shifts, and more likely to be immigrants."

Maybe I'm old, but the graveyard shift always got paid more for the trouble of working nights.

2:43 pm February 25, 2013

Patrick Murphy, RN, CHPN wrote:

@Hospital observer - I think you are correct. Part of what we're seeing is an effect of high average age for professional nurses, senior nurses are more likely to be in dual-income households and less likely to be able to tolerate working difficult shifts. Most of my clinical instructors were only able to afford taking a pay-cut to teach by continuing to work full-time or because their spouse is independently wealthy. This is a huge problem, it's difficult to encourage nurses to leave the top of their profession (in performance and pay) to teach at a university for less pay, but this is precisely what is needed to address the nursing shortage.

Pressure also comes from recent decreases in investment values and retirement income, some nurses are re-entering the work force after retirement, which tends to bump everyone else down a peg.

Obviously the article was crafted to draw eyeballs, it obviously worked because here we all are. It's clear, though, that men in nursing are not being paid more because they're men, we're seeing the effect of a huge gender disparity in the profession (around 8-10%, more severe than physics or engineering). Since men in nursing represent the most severe gender disparity of any profession, any student of elementary statistics could point out that the differences in sample-size cast doubt on any naive analysis of pay-per-person according to gender.

2:50 pm February 25, 2013

x2 wrote:

The article's title is NOT misleading.

The important line is "Even within a given field, however, men tend to earn more; among full-time, year-round registered nurses, women earned 7% less than men in 2011".

So when they account for the different circumstances that may lead to the discrepancy in pay, the gap does not go away.

2:51 pm February 25, 2013

Rudy Haugeneder wrote:

Patrick Murphy, RN, CHPN summed it all up very well. His findings apply to Canada and Europe as well.
His recommendations could speedily help alleviate some of the almost universal health care problem caused by the demographic change -- we pensioners need considerably more medical attention than younger folks who will/are stuck paying the medicare bills while also crunching private insurance.

2:52 pm February 25, 2013

Alan Wells wrote:

Okay, you gotta cath a guy; you know, produce a bag of yellow stuff? 90% of nurses are chicks. You'd prefer a dude for that job. There are fewer dudes; supply and demand 101. As the distribution evens, you'll see the difference disappear or flip; most nursing administrators are women. And the other factors like flexible schedules, career interruption for children, advanced degrees, etc. The 77% is pretty much a myth once all the factors are considered.

2:58 pm February 25, 2013

Mitchell wrote:

Several things come to mind in discussing the disparity between men and women vis-a-vis wages:
1. Women are more likely to be Liberals which means more potential for activism.
2. Women are more likely to be "politically correct" which means harder to manage.
3. Men are more likely to be aggressive which means more likely to rise to meet challenges on the job.
4. Men have traditionally been more entrepreneurial which means more like to create solutions to problems.

So as a man CEO, I am always a bit cautious about women employees.

3:02 pm February 25, 2013

Michael wrote:

Pathetic headline -meant to draw cries of sexism from the left.

Reading the article clearly shows that over-generalization and apples-to-oranges comparisons are the reason behind disparities in pay.

To do a real analysis and accurate job, compare apples-to-apples. What do women vs. men make in earnings when they are in exactly the same work environment? Doctor's office, daytime, full employment?
What do they each make when working nighttime shifts in hospitals and they both have Master's degrees.

Get real.

3:12 pm February 25, 2013

MS wrote:

Sounds like there are a lot of variables in this analysis -

3:15 pm February 25, 2013

Gregg wrote:

My general observations are supported by the evidence. In my four hospitalizations over the last four years I have had a number of nurses. Hands down the best was a male night nurse in the ICU at our local hospital. I took the liberty of calling his supervisor, a woman, about two weeks after I got out to praise him. Her response was that she wanted to clone him and it would make her life much better. She said her male nurses all played well in the sand box, were on average more technically competent, and just were better nurses overall. This guy worked nights so the he could be home for his kids during the day. He earned his higher pay.

3:16 pm February 25, 2013

Jeff Jackson wrote:

This article needs further elaboration toward the end. Most male RNs are concentrated in two places: the ER and the OR. It's not nice to say, but those places can be MUCH harder work than doctor's offices with regular business hours. Or even non-critical inpatient med-surg or maternity units. The other place for the guys is the psych ward, as it has the physical component of dealing with violent patients. In all, where there is more patient death, there is often a higher concentrate of guys. Given both physical and emotional demands associated with those assignments, men average a bit higher with wages.

3:18 pm February 25, 2013

Dr. No wrote:

They get more money because giving sponge baths is more emotionally challenging for them.

3:29 pm February 25, 2013

Raza wrote:

One thing I want to point out that no one else has is that if more male nurses are "immigrants", then these immigrants are usually specialist doctors or otherwise highly qualified and experienced from when they practiced back home, and so it should explain at least in part why they may be more likely to be hired. What I would like this study to do is control for this age and experience.

3:32 pm February 25, 2013

Domi wrote:

Why did the writer bury the truth way down at the end of the article???

"Male nurses are more likely than female nurses to have a doctoral degree, more likely to work evening or night shifts"

3:34 pm February 25, 2013

Silent Observer wrote:

The article does half the job - it tells you that male nurses make more but does not really explore the real reasons in any detail. Suits the current narrative of male bashing...just as an experiment, please turn on the TV tonight and focus on advertisements featuring both men and women, especially in a household...men are portrayed as buffoons and women as the smart ones in the vast majority of the current ads...If you dare show female buffoons, the feminists will castrate you...

3:43 pm February 25, 2013

Jeff wrote:

This is a typical propaganda piece. Taking the average salary of female dominated jobs such as licensed practical nurses and jobs such nurse anesthetists where more men work and then make overal comparisons in order to imply sex discrimination because the average man earns more than the average woman.

3:44 pm February 25, 2013

Steve wrote:

I think female nurses should be paid on the basis of how hot they are.

3:47 pm February 25, 2013

Patrick Murphy, RN, CHPN wrote:

@Jeff Jackson brings up a great point, somewhere in the neighborhood of 80% of male RNs work in critical care - so we see not only are males a severe gender minority in nursing (around 10%), you find them in critical care settings disproportionately (around 80%). It's difficult to draw any valid conclusions about the relationship between wage and gender under those statistical conditions.

3:48 pm February 25, 2013

VINCE wrote:

MOST ARE COPS WITH ADDTIONA SKILLS.

3:50 pm February 25, 2013

Patrick Murphy, RN, CHPN wrote:

@Alan Wells - it works the other way around, too. I don't get to pass on catheterizing a patient because of their gender. Man or woman, a patient is a patient, and if I'm responsible for them I will take the best possible care of them. That's what being a professional means. Sometimes patients care strongly about the gender of their caregivers (mostly women), most people don't care after they've gotten used to the idea of professional nursing and what it entails.

3:51 pm February 25, 2013

BMD wrote:

It's a shame that it takes them 2 years to analyze and publish the data. That's a long time given changes in the economy as we come out of the recession.

3:55 pm February 25, 2013

MCP wrote:

Hooters is going to start a nursing school.

3:58 pm February 25, 2013

rpc wrote:

irrational for employers to discriminate on the basis of gender given the legal consequences (the moral issues notwithstanding). If employers have discriminated on the basis of gender, then they deserve the consequences.

3:59 pm February 25, 2013

costcontainment1 wrote:

Need to get to granular level on this.

How many shifts, overtime, weekends, etc.

4:00 pm February 25, 2013

Gaylord Focker wrote:

Who wants to be a Dr. anyway?

4:01 pm February 25, 2013

rpc wrote:

there is at least one comment about nurse costs contributing to health care cost. In making such a judgment, one should consider that there's a doctor shortage (I've seen credible reports of a 100K shortage of general practicioners). Without nurses to take on some of the work, what would health care costs be? If only med school was as popular as law school.

4:12 pm February 25, 2013

LUCK BENNY TOUSSAINT wrote:

MY Teacher dr BARRAT recently gave me an idea about the salary of nurse anesthetists it vary from 200 and up

4:13 pm February 25, 2013

Makes Sense wrote:

And female combat soldiers are making more than male combat soldiers.

FORWARD!

4:13 pm February 25, 2013

AMA wrote:

RPD: Medical school would be more popular than law school. However, we at the AMA keep the numbers small and restrict admission.

4:17 pm February 25, 2013

Anonymous wrote:

yeah but they have to put up with everyone calling them "male nurses." how embarrassing is that?

The only way this headline would make sense is if it compared HOURLY wages (which is how most nurses are paid) for similar jobs...ER nurses, ICU nurses, floor nurses or school nurses. Overtime counts for a lot, and if someone, male or female, is gunning for overtime slots they can almost double their yearly pay. Comparing yearly wages across a spectrum of nursing jobs is meaningless.

4:27 pm February 25, 2013

Anonymous wrote:

what do trans gender nurses earn?

4:28 pm February 25, 2013

Jerry Vandesic wrote:

The article is inconsistent in describing how the statistical comparisons are made. In one sentence, it says "The average female nurse earned $51,100 in 2011, 16% less than the $60,700 earned by the average man in the same job." So, the study seems to be comparing individuals in the SAME JOB. But a few paragraphs later is says "Part of the reason ... [is because] men are more concentrated in the highest-earning segments of the field." So, the study isn't comparing individuals in the SAME JOB (because if they were, the glass elevator skewing of the of distribution wouldn't have any effect on the comparison).

Not sure if the problem is in the reporting or the study, but the results, as presented here, are not all that insightful.

4:31 pm February 25, 2013

jcm wrote:

Are you so ignorant as to not recognize sarcasm? You MUST be a liberal

4:52 pm February 25, 2013

Mj wrote:

Agreeing with other posters in that this article is pointless. The writer is comparing all different sectors of nursing instead of comparing gender pay within one area... Male Rn vs female Rn. Male Crna Vs female Crna. If the writer did that there would be no difference and this article wouldn't exist.

5:00 pm February 25, 2013

Hospital goer wrote:

Call me bigoted but I have always gotten better service from female nurses (I am female). But I guess that has no relevance when it comes to pay.

5:13 pm February 25, 2013

brock2118 wrote:

I say average everything out and pay everyone the same no matter whether they are an lpn or a nurse anesthetist. the anesthetists will be proud they are helping out the lpns

5:29 pm February 25, 2013

Dexterkatt wrote:

I suggest that in order to level the playing field, that men nurses have their dominant hand amputated.

5:36 pm February 25, 2013

Anonymous wrote:

Sounds like "Mitchell" is a little uncomfortable with himself. What CEO has time to hate on women on WSJ.com?

5:37 pm February 25, 2013

TNSTAAFL wrote:

What kind of study is this? Can we not just look at the actual hourly wages and compare the two? So many variables just glossed over by this article, from "more likely to work full time" to "higher earning sectors." What's next, a headline that says "Study shows that group/gender/ethnicity makes more money when they work longer hours in more profitable professions"

5:44 pm February 25, 2013

Safety Wellness Diversity wrote:

As many have pointed out, his article answers its own "issue" at the end. Male nurses are more likely to have Doctorate degrees and work night shifts.

But, let's not let this critical difference get in the way of gender equality. The only solution is to force male nurses to under-go sex change operations. If that does not work, then male nurses should pay more for their education, subsidizing the education of female nurses. If that doesn't work, tax the rich!

5:47 pm February 25, 2013

This study has some serious reporting bias wrote:

Rather than focusing on these generalizations why don't they go hospital by hospital and perform a smaller micro-study to verify the data.

Men are also more likely to exaggerate their reported salaries and women are less likely to exaggerate theirs. Furthermore, when you account for total hours worked you will see that men actually get paid less per hour than women. In general women still work fewer total hours than men do which means that they get a better per-hour wage then men.

5:57 pm February 25, 2013

we need wrote:

more h1b's to lower the pay scale

6:03 pm February 25, 2013

Bobby Kennedy wrote:

Look at the BLS statistics. Men work more hours than women, so of course they will earn more. Women work about 69.7% of the hours that men work. There is no hiring bias or every business would ONLY hire women becasue they are sooooooo cheap. They are not. Women actually earn more per hour than men do...men just work more hours.
And black women earn more than white women and more than black men also.

6:03 pm February 25, 2013

JAS wrote:

Retired orthopaedic surgeon. This article is a mess. Designed to create sexism hysteria. Should never have been printed in its current construct. So, everyone ignore the article but do appreciate that nurses are among the really key people in our society. Most are now graduates of 4 year college programs and many have graduate degrees. They accept a huge amount of responsibility and overall do an outstanding job. One of the great injustices in their careers is that most have very meager retirement plans. The teachers in our area retire with $50-60K annual plans. The nurses are nowhere close. A true injustice based on their educational level and the responsiibility they shoulder. Remember they do this around the clock....to include nights, weekends, and holidays. They are the glue in the health care system. They are to medicine what senior enlisted people are to the military. Without them the process would stop instantly. Be very thankful they exist!!

6:35 pm February 25, 2013

Tom Republican wrote:

And who but Republicans and Conservatives insist that discrimination is dead, gone and over?

6:58 pm February 25, 2013

Bobby Kennedy wrote:

Tom Republican,
Election of black president, re-election of black president, black women earn more than white women, black women earn more than black men. Black women earn more than white men per hour. Black women earn more than white women per hour. Black women earn more than black men per hour. Black women earn more than white men per hour. White women earn more than white men per hour.
It's all in the BLS statistics. There is no debate about these facts.
2 + 2 is 4. There is also no debate about this fact either.
Please stop with the hypocrisy, false inuendo and manipulation. Life is good.

7:27 pm February 25, 2013

Oscar Stratten wrote:

So males with doctorates working full time earn more than females with bachelors working less than full time. If the study were intended to be fair, it would compare nurses in same responsibility, with same experience, and same degrees. (e.g. Male & female nurses with bachelor's degrees and 5 -10 years experience in an E.R environment, working full time)

7:33 pm February 25, 2013

Jep wrote:

A woman's place is in the home. I'm sorry if that sounds old fashioned, but that's how I feel.

7:38 pm February 25, 2013

Joe Schild wrote:

I can't wait to enjoy Ben Casselman's next foray into the world of journalism. This article is so horribly researched in so many ways that I don't have the time to dissect it. (By the way, my wife and I are both RN's. She earns 5 bucks per hour more than I do, because she's higher up on the "clinical ladder". This despite the fact that I possess a bachelor's degree in Nursing, while she has an associate's degree.)

7:38 pm February 25, 2013

smarty wrote:

some of the discrepancy between male and female wages could be due to the shift differential earned by nurses working evening and night shifts

8:16 pm February 25, 2013

Boomer here wrote:

I never allow nurse anaesthetists in my surgeries. It's a doctor or nothing. There's a reason doctors go to medical school.

8:18 pm February 25, 2013

Boomer here wrote:

Jep, why do you feel that way? Lots of women don't want to be "in the home," and now that we have more economic opportunities, we can choose not to.

8:22 pm February 25, 2013

John Shniper wrote:

Micromanaging job assignments and pay to achieve "fairness" is usually to very bad idea that degrades the whole job market. Why hire if you are just going to get sued and fined whatever you do? I doubt employers stay up late into the night plotting against Women and in favor of Men. That said: the Equal Pay Act and the EEOC need some objective explanation why this sex linked pay gap is so pervasive! Maybe it can be examined without litigation but through administrative process.

9:44 pm February 25, 2013

Jacob Duchen wrote:

Males are more likely to be better able to lift heavy patients which is a serious issue in dealing with obese patients. I don't know if that explains everything but it would contribute to paying males more than women considering they're underrepresented in that field.

10:48 pm February 25, 2013

Jake Richards wrote:

I didn't see any attempt to adjust for maternity leave. Also, women's health care costs tend to be higher, so are women employeed receiving more benefits in the form of health care costs? In fact, I don't see any effort to account for the fact that women more than men take extended time off from the work force. This analysis is way overly simplified and a fixation on trying to correct for something that isn't there is going to lead to unnecessary cost, which in the medical field is just going to lead to more increase is healthcare costs. Let the market do it's thing, let the chips fall where it lies, and if there is a real instance where a woman can show sexual discrimination, let them sue. But allowing this poor statistical analysis make up the basis for consequential policy decisions is a bad idea.

11:10 pm February 25, 2013

KC Nurse wrote:

Wow I am amazed at the ignorant posts here. First most Registered Nurses employed in the hospital setting are paid according to a scale per years of experience. Differentials are paid for nights/holidays/weekends/overtime. So when comparing apples to apples both sexes are paid the same. The pay changes when you go outside of the hospital to other roles or Masters prepared roles. I love that some folks have no appreciation for one of the more difficult under graduate degrees. BTW the person that thinks only men have talent at IV insertion REALLY? I would love to stab you with a nice 16 gauge just for fun. I am a female RN for over 17 years and can rock out an 18G in most patients effortlessly thanks to time worked in Same Day Surgery. I now work in a large inner city ICU and do love working with men or women as long as they have a good attitude and are safe. There are good and not so good nurses from both sexes.

11:41 pm February 25, 2013

WSW wrote:

Women spend too much time BS ing on all jobs they do. It's no wonder they get paid less.

12:13 am February 26, 2013

Sam wrote:

This WSW guy is a peach. He's ranting gay hate stuff on a blog below this one. Definitely an anti-social hater type.

I would be interested in seeing how maternity leave gets played in? For example say a woman leaves for X months to manage her pregnancy, at the same time the man who was hired same time, same skill remains and continues to work. Naturally from the viewpoint of an employer the man is there and will be the first choice of the 2 for advancement no?

As for the IV nonsense, I'd rather have a paramedic start my IV than any nurse. ;)

8:15 am February 26, 2013

jackie wrote:

Very disappointed in the WSJ reporter . . . insinuating that women nurse wages are lower due to illegal wage discrimination!!! No evidence of that allegation.

When you compare Women/Men wages AND control for years' experience and education THEN, you may be able to allege wage discrimination. Why is this so hard for a "trained" journalist anywhere (but especially at the WSJ) to comprehend??? Do you think women are STUPID ??

8:25 am February 26, 2013

Jacqueline wrote:

Yes, the writer DOES think women are too stupid to evaluate that there are other reasons - not presented - for the supposed wage gap.

You do need to compare apples to apples. It's not clear if that's been done here. Having been in a couple hospitals and rehab units recently and having had both male and female nurses, I can't say I noticed much differece in quality of care. A couple of the male PT guys were loudmouths, but I have no reason to think they wee incompetent.

What I disagree with completely are the statements that nurses don't deserve good salaries. Let me tell you that I would not want to be in a hospital or rehab unit in which the nurses were underpaid and resentful.

Sometimes I think that republicans don't think anyone except "managers" should make a middle class income. And that is nonsense. No wonder the middle class is declining!

8:36 am February 26, 2013

Sheila wrote:

Paying someone a higher wage based soley upon gender is discrimination. Plain and simple. For too long as a woman I have watched men be paid higher salaries for performing the same tasks as women. I hope Congress takes note of this article in particular to test the discrimination laws and stop this garbage. Why should 10% of nurses be male and they get higher pay? Not fair. Needs to stop.

9:54 am February 26, 2013

Ms. Behavior wrote:

if you work better, it should be reflected on your paycheck

9:57 am February 26, 2013

Anm. wrote:

How bout the fact that it only takes one male nurse to move patients around where it might take two or three females. Males nurses are, it may sound harsh to some ears but, more efficient. I don't begrudge them earning more for doing more.

10:02 am February 26, 2013

Kim RN wrote:

What a poor article. I have been a nurse for 6 years. I am a hospital nurse paid hourly. The only limit to my earnings is me, not my sex. I can make just as much or as little as I like. I have plenty of opportunity to go in for extra shifts and overtime (this is not frowned upon and often further incentive pay is offered for this on top of my overtime pay). Heck, I could get a second job if I wanted to. This articles attempt to insinuate sexism is appalling.

11:27 am February 26, 2013

McPhee wrote:

Do men and women pay the same for the schooling to get certified to be a nurse?

11:39 am February 26, 2013

Ghoti wrote:

Is it sexist to say that it pays to have a penis?

12:39 pm February 26, 2013

Lisa Brownstone wrote:

Male nurses are more likely than female nurses to have a doctoral degree and more likely to work evening or night shifts. That seems to explain some of the 9% difference. The bigger question is why men seek the higher paying sectors, working hours, etc. We need to raise our daughters to look for those opportunities too.

1:14 pm February 26, 2013

Atm wrote:

Woman pay more for razors and beauty supplies cause they r pink and have a fancy smell, knowing this are women gonna buy the plain crap guys buy just cause its not pink dosent mean its not for women and things packaged for women cost more then things packaged for men, look at things in the store next time you go, and ask ur self do u really need that pink razor and good smelling shave gel when the plain stuff works just as great, another story on TV on how women get screwed, I feel it should be 50/50 or you should get paid and why you contribute or do, my aunt and Gma are nurses and my male friend was a nurse my male nurse friend can lift a person if fallenpst women will ask for help taking people away from other hings thy coup be done, for the simple fact men were built differently stronger can lift 70lbs plus easily it's only fare to pay them more, women who play the woman card and ask for help offen shoul be paid less. Don't think of two humans women and men think of two other things built differently both have pros and cons, figure what u got over the other and use hold it against them men have brut strength most do I know stronge women too younger girls are less Likely to play the girl card cause they see all this and want money too and know it will hinder them from their goals. I hired an older and younger woman to run my booth at a farmers market the older girl was beside herself on how to set up the tent needed help was asking for burly men, yet there are other women setting up tents all around like nothing by them selves. The young girl had no problums and was great no help needed.
Men do the same thing my brothers are horrible men the can't clean cook or even look in the dam mirror. Take a good look at ur self and ask am I doing my sex and favors some guys make the rest of us look bad or get a bad rep, same goes for women. If you were one of the girls who refused to participate in PE in 5th grade I blame y'all.

3:25 pm February 26, 2013

Tom Coss, RN wrote:

This is a classic Secondary Labor Force issue a-la Jacob Mincer. If you were to cut the data in terms of primary income to the household, you'll find that male and female nurses are paid similarly. Women, to their credit, simply make better lifestyle choices when it comes to work, made easier when their spouses make more.

Nurses also face a flat wage-experience function, despite the abundance of silly little certificates we inflict upon ourselves. I am surprised, however, we're now up to 10% of the labor force, who knew?

5:17 pm February 26, 2013

Marty Murphy wrote:

Many male nurses are more mature and come with prior experience in the military and fire department.

8:21 pm February 26, 2013

Nurse Cratchet wrote:

Men and women in Nursing (as in other professions) with similar education, experiences and performance history, working the same full-time/part-time status and shift (nurses get shift differentials) are paid similarly, if not exactly the same. We need to stop this politically-motivated gender "war on the wage" front that the politicians exploit for political gain.

7:38 am February 27, 2013

gmax777 wrote:

My son is a recent graduate with a 4 year degree, not a 2 year trade school. Every time they need to call in someone, they have started calling him first because he will come in when others won't. Instead of working just three 12 hour shifts (36 hours full time), he is getting 48 to 60 hours every week. Really racking up the overtime. He will end up making twice as much as the female nurse that won't or can't come in when they get a call at 5PM to come in at 7PM for a 12 hour extra shift. He does not get paid more per hour, he just works a heck of a lot more hours. Don't you think someone that works more hours should get more pay?

whatever the small difference is, and i do believe male nurses tend to make a bit more, FLOOR NURSES DOnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn NOT MAKE ENOUGH! WE should all, male & female nurses, to remedy this. hahah i fell asleep, as i am a ward nurse & working nights!!!

9:59 pm February 27, 2013

night nurse wrote:

so many of these comments are anecdotal & have no basis on fact. Like any profession, there are good & not so good. Just because you are a "male nurse" doesn't make you better, smarter or more educated!
And I find many of these comments quite frankly ridiculous. Watching too much Grey's Anatomy??? Are we?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

4:58 am February 28, 2013

Kyle Chiu wrote:

I'm 17 now, studying in a industrial and vocational high school, but honestly I don't like it! Until recently I discovered what I love to do -- nursing! So I'll focus on health caring and nursing! I'd love to help patients in the future

1:00 pm March 1, 2013

Joe3 wrote:

@ Kyle Chiu ... Good Luck in your chosen career, I also found a home in nursing, it's never "going to work". I look forward to my job & enjoy my position as a RN. It took a while to find my 'nitch' within nursing,but how sweet it is now. It'll only get better for you - better pay, more respect - in the future. Stay focused, nursing needs people like you, it's been a good 20 years for me.

10:07 am March 2, 2013

Sunflower wrote:

Yes--men are more likely to work full time. However, again and again I've noticed that the "good old boys" network is invading nursing. The same docs and administrators that treat female nurses like dirt, will hob nob with a male nurse. Furthermore, patients also tend to treat male nurses with more respect. When I worked charge positions with male staff, I can't tell you how many times I've seen a patient screaming at a female nurse, and then quiet down and treat a male CNA or nurse with courtesy. I can't help but feel this "respect" factors into the higher salaries as well.

4:59 pm March 2, 2013

Macho man wrote:

Men are making more than women because men do things better. Get used to it. Actually 16 percent difference should be much higher.

7:06 pm March 2, 2013

Bill Cheecho wrote:

The reasons men earn more are clearly spelled out in the article. Beyond the reasons cited, men are typically more aggressive with the self-promotion and seeking of raises. It never pays to be nice if you want to rise quickly in the ranks.

5:17 pm March 4, 2013

azbullrn wrote:

The article totally jumps all around the field in its comparisons, so the validity thereof is really questionable. Annual incomes comparison is vastly different than hourly wage/ yrs experience/ specialty Unit/shift comparisons. It is unfair to make a broad statement as in the title without true apple to apple comparisons. It is not surprising that a male nurse in one setting takes home more than a female in a different setting - or even annually, as mentioned many males are more income driven working OT or second jobs to support a family. The same is not as prominently true of his female counterpart. However, from a management standpoint, all things being equal, the male would not be hired in at a higher hourly wage than the female, which appears to be the intented demonstration of this poorly written article.

9:12 am March 10, 2013

Sam wrote:

So the degrees, different shifts, and place of employment (hospital vs. doctor's office or school) probably contributes to the wage gap, and the article (and/or study) should have made this more clear and also made some clear apples-to-apples comparisons.

But why are so many commenters stopping there instead of interrogating *why* men are more likely to have doctoral degrees or work evening in night shifts. What do these asymmetries say about what we expect from men and women and how we as a society reward or punish their actions? Are women still expected to be primary caregivers for children? Are men still expected to be the primary breadwinners and work themselves to the bone so their spouses can stay home and raise kids? The issue here isn't (necessarily) personal sexism on the part of administrators, but the structural limitations on and expectations for men and women that lead to position and wage gaps. One of the more thoughtful comments points out that "women tend to value certain non-monetary factors when choosing their careers" but doesn't ask *why* women in the US at this moment are more likely to value these things, and that's a really important question to ask.

Sexism isn't always something individuals feel; it can also be something societies do. This article, though flawed, speaks to the latter issue if not the former.

2:54 am March 11, 2013

fred wrote:

To all the tiresome idiots out there - human nature is human nature and no amount of endless, irritating, wrong-headed feminist propaganda is going to change it.

10:46 am November 29, 2013

Cnn27 wrote:

Very disappointing article for two reasons,

1) Inferring that men just choose nursing because they see it as a secure job, as opposed to realizing that many men, like women, are drawn to the profession because of the potential to help people. I doubt very much anyone whose main motivation in life was money would think about nursing as a career,

2) for glossing over the quite obvious explanations mentioned in the article for the pay gap, places of employment (hospitals will pay more than working in a doctors office), working night shifts for which a premium is paid and men having a higher proportion of doctoral degrees (and as an aside, people with doctoral degrees are more likely to be promoted, therefore providing a reason for more men being promoted).

I would have expected a higher standard of journalism from the WSJ.

4:51 pm March 1, 2014

Give me a break wrote:

Since when does a nurse make more than a doctor? Most hospitals are requiring an entry level nurse to obtain a BSN degree. For those of you that are unaware, a BSN is a four year nursing degree. Any degree in the medical field has a harder grading scale and more rigorous learning. A nurse is required to do more than change a bedpan and take your vitals. We are responsible for monitoring your vital signs, medications, changes in mental and physical status, all related to overall well being. To become a nurse practioner, a person has to complete a bachelors program. I believe the greater demand for nurses begins with the under appreciation and lack a recognition of a nurse's level of intelligence. Nurses have worked very hard to be recognized for their knowledge and expertise.

8:42 pm March 24, 2014

Anonymous wrote:

My mom is a traveler nurse and makea from 150 a hour to 220 a hour but the catch is she has her master degree and been in the industry for over 30yrs

Add a Comment

Error message

Name

We welcome thoughtful comments from readers. Please comply with our guidelines. Our blogs do not require the use of your real name.

About Real Time Economics

Real Time Economics offers exclusive news, analysis and commentary on the U.S. and global economy, central bank policy and economics. Send news items, comments and questions to the editors and reporters below or email realtimeeconomics@wsj.com.