I would say, no, let's look at Barnes, Lamb and Rivers to name a few. The Raptors should be able to get a really promising PG prospect for Ed without sacraficing great draft position. This is a deep draft.

No but that's not something that needs to be addressed right now. Just like on the court, you need to make the best of what comes your way. Forcing the issue leads to mistakes and this is a critical point in the game.

Do you guys think that Derrick Williams is worth the pick if the wolves are willing to trade him. He is not getting consistent playing time and the Wolves may want to fill other positional needs. It's more likely that they trade Beasley but I can't help but wonder. This would fill the SF position nicely. Personally, I would only consider this trade if the pick was lower than 5.

Raps can't get Davis, Beal, or MKG - trade the pick (and possibly ED) to Philly for Holiday and 76ers pick? Would you?

No, I don't think this would be a good idea, mostly because I am not a big fan of Holiday I think that either Drummond or Robinson, and maybe even Barnes, might have more value than Holiday and the Sixers pick. I think that the Raptors could consider trading down if they miss on the top six. Otherwise, I think they should probably take the BPA out of Davis, MKG, Beal, Drummond, Robinson and Barnes. I think that they could move Robinson later, if they want to shift things around.

I would say, no, let's look at Barnes, Lamb and Rivers to name a few. The Raptors should be able to get a really promising PG prospect for Ed without sacraficing great draft position. This is a deep draft.

I tend to agree that it might be a better idea to trade Davis for a lower first rounder. A PG (Marshall, Wroten or Lillard), or perhaps a 2 or 3 might not be a bad idea, to balance the roster.

Do you guys think that Derrick Williams is worth the pick if the wolves are willing to trade him. He is not getting consistent playing time and the Wolves may want to fill other positional needs. It's more likely that they trade Beasley but I can't help but wonder. This would fill the SF position nicely. Personally, I would only consider this trade if the pick was lower than 5.

It would lead me to ask the question what the heck is wrong with Derrick Williams for the Wolves to give up on the #2 overall pick from last year to trade for the (hypothetical) #5 pick in this year's draft? I think Derrick Williams is destined to be a PF in the league but that's another story.

The thing I don't get is that this draft is deeper than last year's draft, the Raptors are odds on to land in the same draft position they had last season yet there seems to be more support for trading the pick now than there was last season. I think that right now there is more certainty of the #5 pick being outstanding than it was last April at this time. Seriously, JV was slotted top three last year this time. We were all buzzing over Kemba Walker and Brandon Knight at #5. The #5 this year is likely to be better than both those guys.

You trade the pick if you feel you can make a deal for a guy who will contribute immediately under the impression that we are going to compete to go deep into the playoffs next year.

In other words, you keep the pick at this point, pick up another young, talented player on a rookie contract, and stack assets, while maintaining cap flexibility, waiting for the right opportunity when some star presents himself and we are a much better team.

No but that's not something that needs to be addressed right now. Just like on the court, you need to make the best of what comes your way. Forcing the issue leads to mistakes and this is a critical point in the game.

I was just looking for ideas of what PG prospects you think a) might be available, and b) would be obtainable with Ed Davis. Personally, I don't see much coming back for ED.

Come the off season, needs and opportunities will change for teams all around the league.

Holiday is actually younger than ED. He is also the same age as Tyshawn Taylor and Damian Lillard and just one year older than Kendall Marshall.

I really like the idea of a player with Holiday's ability running the point. A little more structure and defined role and he could be really good. His defense is really what intrigues me - and he is no slouch on offense (albeit inconsistent but that is possibly due to coaching and teammates).

No, I don't think this would be a good idea, mostly because I am not a big fan of Holiday I think that either Drummond or Robinson, and maybe even Barnes, might have more value than Holiday and the Sixers pick. I think that the Raptors could consider trading down if they miss on the top six. Otherwise, I think they should probably take the BPA out of Davis, MKG, Beal, Drummond, Robinson and Barnes. I think that they could move Robinson later, if they want to shift things around.

Why the hate for Holiday? He certainly stepped back statistically this year but a 6'4", 21 year old PG who can shoot, create, and defend is surely a desirable asset - no? Watching the Philly game tonight, it would appear a little more structure and discipline in the 76ers offense would help immensely.

It would lead me to ask the question what the heck is wrong with Derrick Williams for the Wolves to give up on the #2 overall pick from last year to trade for the (hypothetical) #5 pick in this year's draft? I think Derrick Williams is destined to be a PF in the league but that's another story.

The thing I don't get is that this draft is deeper than last year's draft, the Raptors are odds on to land in the same draft position they had last season yet there seems to be more support for trading the pick now than there was last season. I think that right now there is more certainty of the #5 pick being outstanding than it was last April at this time. Seriously, JV was slotted top three last year this time. We were all buzzing over Kemba Walker and Brandon Knight at #5. The #5 this year is likely to be better than both those guys.

If the season was to end today, the Raps would be tied for 7th worse. Nothing can be counted on with the Raptors because they are the epitome of an inconsistent team but it is looking like they will be picking 1-3 or 8-10. To get the 5th pick last year, they had the 3rd worst record.

I was just looking for ideas of what PG prospects you think a) might be available, and b) would be obtainable with Ed Davis. Personally, I don't see much coming back for ED.

Come the off season, needs and opportunities will change for teams all around the league.

Holiday is actually younger than ED. He is also the same age as Tyshawn Taylor and Damian Lillard and just one year older than Kendall Marshall.

I really like the idea of a player with Holiday's ability running the point. A little more structure and defined role and he could be really good. His defense is really what intrigues me - and he is no slouch on offense (albeit inconsistent but that is possibly due to coaching and teammates).

I don't know what they can get for Ed(maybe D.J. Augustin S&T or maybe Kemba Walker). What I know is I absolutely hate the idea of trading the pick. Colangelo is far better at drafting than he is at trades. This is proven.

Matt52 wrote:

If the season was to end today, the Raps would be tied for 7th worse. Nothing can be counted on with the Raptors because they are the epitome of an inconsistent team but it is looking like they will be picking 1-3 or 8-10. To get the 5th pick last year, they had the 3rd worst record.

Yeah, well a couple days ago they were 4th last, that's how close this is. But I put the declaimer in there of it being hypothetically 5th. Odds say to get 5th overall they finish 5th last. I'm not sure how you translate the 7th worst record into mostly drafting 8-10 range. I mean it makes the idea of keeping the pick sound a little less inviting but it doesn't make sense. Still, at 7th, Lamb and Rivers are probably in play... Both have just as much upside as Walker or Knight, if not more.

I don't know what they can get for Ed(maybe D.J. Augustin S&T). What I know is I absolutely hate the idea of trading the pick. Colangelo is far better at drafting than he is at trades. This is proven.

And what if he can get the player he is high on at 15-17? He has mentioned Harkless and Ross this year. What if a guy like Lamb or Rivers really slips? What if Quincy Miller declares and is still on the board?

I don't know what BC's big board is looking like but, at this time, there are a lot of PF's and C's (few if any of which seem to be better than current Raptors) in that mid-late lottery range.

In case I have not said this or made it clear, if the Raps are picking top 5, I'm not interested in trading that pick.

I don't know what they can get for Ed(maybe D.J. Augustin S&T or maybe Kemba Walker). What I know is I absolutely hate the idea of trading the pick. Colangelo is far better at drafting than he is at trades. This is proven.

Yeah, well a couple days ago they were 4th last, that's how close this is. But I put the declaimer in there of it being hypothetically 5th. Odds say to get 5th overall they finish 5th last. I'm not sure how you translate the 7th worst record into mostly drafting 8-10 range. I mean it makes the idea of keeping the pick sound a little less inviting but it doesn't make sense. Still, at 7th, Lamb and Rivers are probably in play... Both have just as much upside as Walker or Knight, if not more.

You put the disclaimer in quoting another poster. None of the comments I've been replying to had the hypothetical. I have said I would not be interested in trading a top 5 pick.

If they're sitting hypothetically at 5th overall the chances of this scenario playing out is slim to not possible.

If the Raptors have been planning for a top 5 pick and suddenly they are picking 9th, the scenario could very well play out. Going back to Colangelo's drafting skills, he might feel that a guy at 16 is better than the guy at 9 long term - despite what others media or GMs think. Quincy Miller, for example, is a player who has seen his stock fall but could be one of the highest reward picks in the draft with continued rehabilitation and strength training. DraftExpress.com currently has Miller at 18.

Colangelo always says clearly he's a stacker. He'll stack and worry about fitting it all together later. The draft is about the future, not the present.

And he also had a deal lined up with Detroit to trade a player each and their picks last year until CLE unexpectedly picked Thompson. Again, this comes back to his judgement of the players in the draft. By your own logic, if a player like Jrue Holiday could be had and he feels Holiday is better than the player available with his pick, clearly he makes the trade.

The draft is about the future, not the present - absolutely and, using the Holiday example, a 21 year old PG (same age as Lillard and Taylor and just 1 year older than Marshall) who can shoot, create, pass, and defend is a great future asset.

When the memo on the whole season has been to hit the ground running, you take the best players available and that best player might not be the draft pick but the

If the Raptors are picking 8-10 I'm not interested in trading the pick... Unless, the guy at the top of their board can be had a little later. Typically that's not going to be 7-10 picks later.

I don't know what they can get for Ed(maybe D.J. Augustin S&T or maybe Kemba Walker). What I know is I absolutely hate the idea of trading the pick. Colangelo is far better at drafting than he is at trades. This is proven.

Yeah, well a couple days ago they were 4th last, that's how close this is. But I put the declaimer in there of it being hypothetically 5th. Odds say to get 5th overall they finish 5th last. I'm not sure how you translate the 7th worst record into mostly drafting 8-10 range. I mean it makes the idea of keeping the pick sound a little less inviting but it doesn't make sense. Still, at 7th, Lamb and Rivers are probably in play... Both have just as much upside as Walker or Knight, if not more.

If the Raptors finish 7th worst and they do not land in the top 3, then they are almost assured to move down 1 spot, maybe 2 and conceivably 3 spots (although extremely unlikely) based on who is in the top 3. I put this post up earlier today in the draft thread to show that the worst 3 teams are hardly guaranteed a top 3 pick:

Given the last 11 years of history, a bottom 3 finish is nothing to get excited about in hopes of a top 3 pick:

Year
bottom 3 teams in order of finish
top 5 picks in the draft

2001
CHI, GSW, WSH
WSH, LAC, ATL

2002
CHI & GSW (tie), MEM
HOU, CHI, GSW

2003
CLE & DEN (tie), TOR
CLE, DET, DEN

2004
ORL, CHI, WSH
ORL, CHA (expansion), CHI

2005
ATL, NOH, CHA
MIL, ATL, UTA

2006
POR, NYK, ATL
TOR, CHI, CHA

2007
MEM, BOS, MIL
POR, SEA, ATL

2008
MIA, SEA, MEM
CHI, MIA, MIN

2009
SAC, WSH & LAC (tie)
LAC, MEM, OKC

2010
NJ, MIN, SAC
WSH, PHI, NJ

2011
MIN, CLE, TOR
CLE (from LAC), MIN, UTA

I know what the 'odds' in the draft are but over the last 11 drafts, the 'odds' favour teams outside the bottom three ending up in the top 3 for the draft.

Of the 33 teams who 'should' have picked in the top 3, only 11 did in the last 11 years.

If you take away 2002, 2003, and 2004 then of the 24 teams who should have picked in the top 3, only 5 did in the remaining 8 drafts.

So what is my point? I can't wait until May 30th.

With regards to the Raptors, I don't mind them winning games right now if they could win convincingly over a sh!t team like Charlotte. Seriously, that was some of the worst NBA ball I have ever seen.

Trading the pick is a ridiculous idea, this is a loaded draft and I think there are 7-8 players who can be real forces in the years to come. If the raps get 3-5 take MKG, 6-8 BRADLEY BEAL.
I am starting to get really impatient with Derozan, so having Beal (a shooting guard with size who is a straight shooter and awesome rebounder) could solidify our hole at the 2 spot. That would allow derozan and jj (along with maybe a wing free agent) to share minutes with Beal.

actually it's the best idea. i don't care for what scouts say about this draft. ive watched a lot of college ball and i havent been impressed with guys. rember these scouts are the same ones who have made countless mistakes in the draft