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Retroactively, I think once Ralph saw how the management of the University really works during the initial planning of the REA, he felt they would piss away the gift and in no time would be begging the State to support their poor decisions. The end result would be a substandard building for a premier college hockey program and a diminished University given to spending significant amounts on maintenance and capital building support versus academic scholarship and department development.

The state is the one who requested the initial 30 year setup, not Ralph. He would have turned it over much sooner without that request.

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Retroactively, I think once Ralph saw how the management of the University really works during the initial planning of the REA, he felt they would piss away the gift and in no time would be begging the State to support their poor decisions. The end result would be a substandard building for a premier college hockey program and a diminished University given to spending significant amounts on maintenance and capital building support versus academic scholarship and department development.

3 hours ago, jdub27 said:

The state is the one who requested the initial 30 year setup, not Ralph. He would have turned it over much sooner without that request.

I remember this was talked about at the beginning. Could of been a combination of both (Ralph's concerns of the U not managing like he would of wanted and the Legislature having concerns of getting a request to help pay the bills)

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Is Kennedy just playing us all? Think about it. Because of all this fiasco, we learned how much the REA takes for ticket and ad revenue plus we learned about the unwillingness of the REA and KEM to listen to Kennedy, Chaves, and the other UND coaches to put a Hawks logo at midcourt at the Betty. We also learned that this deal that is supposed to get negotiated yearly is just kicked down the road and not even discussed for years. Sure, nothing changed this year. But now that information is out there. Is Kennedy just holding serve now and not changing a thing to appease UND's biggest donor and just saving up his ammo for the next time he negotiates the deal?!!

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The Engelstads essentially own UND athletics which means UND hockey will always be the program disproportionately emphasized and supported.

This was fine back in 2001 when UND was DII in all other sports. Now, with UND trying to play catch up within the DI environment, this agreement continues to boost UND hockey at the expense of UND football, basketball, volleyball, etc. because the REA manages the majority of ticket revenue (i.e., the REA always sends it to the hockey program). UND's "other sports" will always have a hard time with this horribly one-sided agreement in place. UND made a deal with the devil and now we all should understand how (unless you are a hockey #1 fan and we certainly know many are). Large summed donations typically always have strings attached; this one certainly did.

For the sake of comparison, NDSU has thrived as a DI institution because the athletic program received an appropriate boost across the board. That can't happen now at UND because of this deal and the Engelstad family. If you're content with UND being "only hockey", then this deal won't bother you. I am not of that crowd and so this arrangement sickens me. I've never been one to understand the GF culture towards hockey and I refuse to blindly support it.

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The Engelstads essentially own UND athletics which means UND hockey will always be the program disproportionally emphasized and supported.

This was fine back in 2001 when UND was DII in all other sports. Now, with UND trying to be catch up in the DI environment, this agreement kills UND football, basketball, volleyball, etc. because the REA manages the majority of ticket revenue (i.e., the REA always sends it to the hockey program). UND's "other sports" will always have a hard time with this horribly one-sided agreement in place. UND made a deal with the devil and now we all should understand why (unless you are a hockey #1 fan and we certainly know many are).

NDSU has thrived as a DI institution because the athletic program received an appropriate boost across the board. That can't happen now at UND because of this deal and family. If you're content with UND being "only hockey", then this deal won't bother you. I am not of that crowd and so this arrangement sickens me. I've never been one to understand the GF culture towards hockey and I refuse to blindly support it.

Well said, my friend. Thank you for saying it so articulately. I let my emotions take over on this issue and it doesn't come out right.

We need to think outside the box when it comes to athletics fundraising. We need to get creative when it comes to raising money for FB, MBB, WBB and all the other sports we have not cut. And yes, that means "spending other people's money", but it will be money that those people VOLUNTARILY gave to UND athletics to make us stronger as a program. That is how intercollegiate athletics is funded today. If people have a problem with that, then they should rethink their own support for these programs. The Athletic Department, the Alumni Association and others should get together and figure out how to do this. Otherwise, we should just move back down to D-II and the NSIC.

PS: Once September 2030 comes around, we should hire the firm that runs the Alerus Center to run REA. And make sure KEM has absolutely nothing to do with how the arena is run or who gets what sum of money each year.

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Well said, my friend. Thank you for saying it so articulately. I let my emotions take over on this issue and it doesn't come out right.

We need to think outside the box when it comes to athletics fundraising. We need to get creative when it comes to raising money for FB, MBB, WBB and all the other sports we have not cut. And yes, that means "spending other people's money", but it will be money that those people VOLUNTARILY gave to UND athletics to make us stronger as a program. That is how intercollegiate athletics is funded today. If people have a problem with that, then they should rethink their own support for these programs. The Athletic Department, the Alumni Association and others should get together and figure out how to do this. Otherwise, we should just move back down to D-II and the NSIC.

PS: Once September 2030 comes around, we should hire the firm that runs the Alerus Center to run REA. And make sure KEM has absolutely nothing to do with how the arena is run or who gets what sum of money each year.

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She brought it on herself by lying to the Heraldo, dragging contract negotiations into the open and acting like a diva. You can feel sorry for her, I will not.

Nowhere did I say I felt sorry for her or even that I've agreed with some of her actions or comments. I specifically said that type of dialogue is not helpful, because it isn't. Continuing to push a narrative with unnecessary negative comments that do nothing but increase a divide (real or perceived) between either UND and a donor or within the athletic department does nothing to help UND in the long run.

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The Engelstads essentially own UND athletics which means UND hockey will always be the program disproportionately emphasized and supported.

This was fine back in 2001 when UND was DII in all other sports. Now, with UND trying to play catch up within the DI environment, this agreement continues to boost UND hockey at the expense of UND football, basketball, volleyball, etc. because the REA manages the majority of ticket revenue (i.e., the REA always sends it to the hockey program). UND's "other sports" will always have a hard time with this horribly one-sided agreement in place. UND made a deal with the devil and now we all should understand how (unless you are a hockey #1 fan and we certainly know many are). Large summed donations typically always have strings attached; this one certainly did.

For the sake of comparison, NDSU has thrived as a DI institution because the athletic program received an appropriate boost across the board. That can't happen now at UND because of this deal and the Engelstad family. If you're content with UND being "only hockey", then this deal won't bother you. I am not of that crowd and so this arrangement sickens me. I've never been one to understand the GF culture towards hockey and I refuse to blindly support it.

So the REA manages some/majority/all ticket revenue? The REA ALWAYS sends ALL to the hockey program? Or is it done proportionally? It would probably seem like hockey gets more revenue because they have the highest attendance of any D1 hockey program in the country and is the highest attended sport on campus...just sayin'.

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So the REA manages some/majority/all ticket revenue? The REA ALWAYS sends ALL to the hockey program? Or is it done proportionally? It would probably seem like hockey gets more revenue because they have the highest attendance of any D1 hockey program in the country and is the highest attended sport on campus...just sayin'.

What is with your scramble approach? REA manages the majority of ticket revenue (52%) and always sends the majority of that to the hockey program, either directly or indirectly. Don't act so clueless.

52% of ALL ticket revenue - *majority*

Does hockey receive more support than all of UND's other programs? Yes

Do most DI athletic programs around the country allow a building management group and/or the major donor to manage the majority of their (the university's) ticket revenue? Absolutely not.

UND hockey average attendance is approximately 11,500 per game at the REA. UND football average attendance is approximately 10,000 per game at the Alerus. So, does UND football receive 87% of the financial support that UND hockey receives? Absolutely not.

The total attendance is in UND hockey's favor, but anyone objectively looking at that knows it is purely a product of the building itself. Basketball would lead UND sports in attendance if it played in the REA and hockey played in the Betty instead. Thus, Engelstads essentially own UND athletics. The Engelstads' personal interests and biases are completely reflected on UND athletics. Not UND, not North Dakota, not Grand Forks, but rather a family in Nevada.

Not to mention UND football has nothing to do with the REA yet the REA handles 52% of football's ticket revenue? This current arrangement is not sensible for a DI athletic program; maybe, just maybe, a DII program.

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Does hockey receive more support than all of UND's other programs? Yes

Do most DI athletic programs around the country allow a building management and/or the major donor to manage the majority of their (the university's) revenue? Absolutely not.

UND hockey average attendance is approximately 11,500 per game at the REA. UND football average attendance is approximately 10,000 per game at the Alerus. So, does UND football receive 87% of the financial support that UND hockey receives? Absolutely not.

Not to mention UND football has nothing to do with the REA yet the REA handles 52% of football's ticket revenue? This current arrangement is not sensible for a DI athletic program; maybe, just maybe, a DII program.

UND football averages over 10,000 a game? Wow! Never would have guessed that. Amazing what you can find on the Interwebs.

I'd like to see a breakdown of revenue/cost generated per sport...probably buried 30 pages back in this thread. Wonder what proportion each sport receives?

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Why not? I thought they were struggling with attendance the past couple years, especially with students.

Initial turnout has improved. Largely due to 2016 season when UND football went 9-3. Problem you're referencing is that the students leave halfway through the games. Happens all over the country, even with the football programs that attract over 100k per game (Alabama, Ohio State, Michigan, etc.). Even UND hockey has problems with student attendance come the third period.

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Initial turnout has improved. Largely due to 2016 season when UND football went 9-3. Problem you're referencing is that the students leave halfway through the games. Happens all over the country, even with the football programs that attract over 100k per game (Alabama, Ohio State, Michigan, etc.). Even UND hockey has problems with student attendance come the third period.

Must be a hell of a party they're leaving for....

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So I thought the reason the ticket revenue goes through REA was because the University tried running tickets office/operation but it cost too much...They moved it to REA and the employees as well so they went off the books on campus...is that not true?

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So I thought the reason the ticket revenue goes through REA was because the University tried running tickets office/operation but it cost too much...They moved it to REA and the employees as well so they went off the books on campus...is that not true?

The ticket revenue is completely separate from what UND pays the REA to handle ticket sales, which was $247K last year. It is also separate from the additional $1.1 million UND paid in "utilities, maintenance staff, phone service and other expenses".

I don't think there's an issue with UND paying the REA to handle ticket sales. I don't think there's an issue with some ticket revenue (MIH, MBB, WBB and VB) going to the REA as it basically is equivalent to "rent", which has helped pay for the building of the Betty, and updates/maintenance to the REA/BESC (though the extra $1.1 million on top of 52% of ticket revenue is a bit curious). But why football ticket revenue continues to be included in the whole equation is beyond me. On top of that, UND is now using the REA less with WIH being cut, meaning the REA has more capacity to bring in outside events and their operation expense is less overall as there are 16-20 less events they have to staff for each year.