Oh Mr Darwin..... why didn't all animals go extinct during the millions years it took evolution to NON-intelligently design umbilical cords?

Re: Oh Mr Darwin..... why didn't all animals go extinct during the millions years it took evolution to NON-intelligently design umbilical cords?

...

"If you want to know who rules over you in society, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize." Voltaire.

Quoting: chauchat

Exactly, which are creationists or religion in general.

Science says prove me wrong and is open to change.Religion says this is it, it can't change, and is blind to evidence.

Quoting: AllGunsBlazing

Oh I disagree completely. If you are fair-minded at all, look on glp and see who is criticized the most. Many accuse believers in the creator of being fantasy-prone , and purely imagine that they themselves are 'terribly brave' to do so.

As for your second paragraph, if you substitute for the word "Science" ,"Any believer in the true God", and then for the word"Religion", kindly substitute "So called science".Fixed it for ya.

Quoting: chauchat

How many scientists are banging down church doors and telling pastors and priests they have to teach the Big Bang Theory or evolution?

How many Christians are banging down school doors and telling science teachers they have to teach creationism?

Edit: GLP is hardly a fair comparison to the real world.

Quoting: AllGunsBlazing

Sadly, GLP is the world I know best, but from dimly remembered pre-glp life, it jibes with my experience of that world too.Scientists banging down church doors? I don't go to a "church", but Bart Ehrman is a theology professor and not untypical of them at all, in that he has "conceded" the Bible is inconsistent, a hoax, every pejorative in the book, basically. Dude, if I can find his errors in every example I've looked into? Trust me, that's not very impressive. <On his part, I mean. Don't you usually have to have a "divinity degree" to be a minister? [Never mind that a special, separate clergy class is not scriptural at all.] From what I have experienced when I was part of Christendom, as distinct from Christianity, "scientists" don't have to bang down the doors, the so-called science is already within. I think the Pope declared evolution to be true, didn't he? Let me just add that what I and others dispute is not natural selection , but Macro-evolution. And the earth can still be as many billions and billions of years old as Carl Sagan likes and still fit the Bible's account of creation. [Not sure his statements fit physics anymore, though] And really, for me, it's about the evidence I have so far, disregarding "evidence" I now regard as not holding up to closer scrutiny. I suppose I could still believe in God if it was proved to me that at best, he just set things in motion, but that hasn't been demonstrated, for me anyway.I'll post this and address the other part of your post after.

Re: Oh Mr Darwin..... why didn't all animals go extinct during the millions years it took evolution to NON-intelligently design umbilical cords?

The remnant yolk sacs of eggs evolved into the umbilical cord. It was much safer to have your fetus growing inside you than to have to lay eggs which proved as an evolutionary advantage for mammals and marsupials.

So basically, the eggs starting growing inside animals, which was advantageous. What was the yolk and other parts that are present in eggs, are still present in human embryos as well. Our early development is strikingly similar to reptiles' early development.

Quoting: AllGunsBlazing

Disregarding the fact that your explanation is purely 'just-so' speculation... Do you realize how many perfectly coordinated changes would have to occur in order to switch from an Ovoviviparous egg development and Viviparous placental gestation, while constantly conferring enough of a fitness advantage to become fixated in the population???

This supposed evolved fetus might be safer in the mother's womb, but how on earth do you reconcile a fitness advantage to the mother herself, now having to bare the burden of prolonged pregnancy??? Embryo safety is meaningless without survival advantage to the mother.

Where does her fitness advantage arise from bearing the extra weight and having to supply extra nutrition?

If these intermediate stages were so beneficial, how come there is not a trace of evidence for this body plan? Why no organisms using an intermediate gestation stage today?

Oh yea, let's not forget that we don't observe a single novel protein evolving today, much less the myriad of coordinated protein transportation systems evolved in embryonic development systems.

Re: Oh Mr Darwin..... why didn't all animals go extinct during the millions years it took evolution to NON-intelligently design umbilical cords?

Disregarding the fact that your explanation is purely 'just-so' speculation... Do you realize how many perfectly coordinated changes would have to occur in order to switch from an Ovoviviparous egg development and Viviparous placental gestation, while constantly conferring enough of a fitness advantage to become fixated in the population???

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519

How about we apply similar logic to OP's theory? There are plenty of animals that never have an umbilical cord, so it is simply nonsense to claim that "all animals" would have gone extinct during the development of the cord.

Re: Oh Mr Darwin..... why didn't all animals go extinct during the millions years it took evolution to NON-intelligently design umbilical cords?

Why didnt they go extinct after the flood when there was nothing to eat or drink?

Quoting: SheldonCooper

Exactly! And if you have ever read the Babble, you would see that God ordered Noah to kill a lot of the animals as a blood sacrifice to him as soon as they landed on dry earth. You wonder how the sacrifices bulls could live on? You wonder how a ant could survive in a wooden boat with an elephant? You wonder how Noah managed to get the koala bears and kangaroos on the ark since Australia was always a segregated land mass? You wonder where they went to find two polar bears?

I guess the only answers brain dead Christers can come up with is....GOD DID IT. How irrationally stupid can you be? And you answer EVERY ONE of this clueless guy's questions about evolution and he doesn't listen to a single word you say. DGN is a huge waste of your time. I am just writing this to tell you all not to bother with his posts. He needs to go to colllege and take a course in evolution. Of course, he was probably home schooled until the age of 25 or something. Could explain why he seems so delusional?

Re: Oh Mr Darwin..... why didn't all animals go extinct during the millions years it took evolution to NON-intelligently design umbilical cords?

Why didnt they go extinct after the flood when there was nothing to eat or drink?

Quoting: SheldonCooper

Exactly! And if you have ever read the Babble, you would see that God ordered Noah to kill a lot of the animals as a blood sacrifice to him as soon as they landed on dry earth. You wonder how the sacrifices bulls could live on? You wonder how a ant could survive in a wooden boat with an elephant? You wonder how Noah managed to get the koala bears and kangaroos on the ark since Australia was always a segregated land mass? You wonder where they went to find two polar bears?

I guess the only answers brain dead Christers can come up with is....GOD DID IT. How irrationally stupid can you be? And you answer EVERY ONE of this clueless guy's questions about evolution and he doesn't listen to a single word you say. DGN is a huge waste of your time. I am just writing this to tell you all not to bother with his posts. He needs to go to colllege and take a course in evolution. Of course, he was probably home schooled until the age of 25 or something. Could explain why he seems so delusional?

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814

um, most supposed diversity is answered by science... see Professor Veth... most species originate from small pool... nature naturally creates diverse varieties... Noah did not need that many animals...

Re: Oh Mr Darwin..... why didn't all animals go extinct during the millions years it took evolution to NON-intelligently design umbilical cords?

The Bible is an incredible document encoded mathematically and linguistically with profound information, according to people who have studied it, not all of whom are Christians... your bias is by design of tptb, not truth... media... not mind, is causing this...

Re: Oh Mr Darwin..... why didn't all animals go extinct during the millions years it took evolution to NON-intelligently design umbilical cords?

According to mathematician Kurt Godel, within every formal logical system there are problems not solvable nor conclusively determinable.*

Metaphysicist Heinz von Foerster states that the first root of the word "science" is "sci," which is an Indo-European word for "separation." He further states that in this reality there is simply too much information for any theory to be absolutely correct. Science and mathematics is actually a poem written by self-interested parties towards certain goals, by creating systems (to over-come the separation of science) and by promoting them with media. This is why Quantum Physics requires a vacuum and Planck's Constant, that do not actually exist anywhere and why scientists continually make up new particles and theories to justify the dominant paradigm. *

The theory of Evolution is another example of this, as it is a poem designed to make us believe we must and should compete with each other, when that was not the loving design originally intended by God and Christ's teachings. See Walter Veith's extensive videos explaining the absurdities inherent in the science of evolution. 911 is the epitome of this kind of poem, writ large for the masses, yet obviously not what we were told it was. If anything, it should be called "survival of those who cooperate the best."

I first showed this video piece at Louise Bourgeois' Salon in NYC. I did not understand it at the time, but it is an expression of the madness of modern society and culture that has become increasingly Godless and mis-directed by demonic supernatural forces (as can be seen in the smoke itself when the towers collapsed--this is well documented by others). It is also an expression of the profundity of God-given free will. Within the incredible design of this reality there is both intelligence and infinite potential. Our reality can be anything we want it to be under God's laws. The current technocratic poem being written by self-interested elitist people does not reflect Christ, but a supernatural demonic desire to control God's creation and enslave humanity.**

God is in control, and gives us free will to choose Him or not--this is "the harvest" and true purpose of existence here. Yet God allows the horrors of tragedies like 911, in essence, because we do. This is why the untruth is so self-evident in terms of the "poem" of the media story of 911: the truth controlling us must be put out and we must agree to it, for it to continue. It is the abyss gazing back at us when we turn away from God.

*see: The Net - The Unabomber. LSD and the Internet to understand this; **as well, see: Roger Morneau, Mark Cleminson and Carolyn Hamlett, among others, who speak of this supernatural plan to control humanity and how and why events are unfolding as they are in ways that do not serve us.

Re: Oh Mr Darwin..... why didn't all animals go extinct during the millions years it took evolution to NON-intelligently design umbilical cords?

Interesting how negation of Christ is equal to negation of human rights and freedoms...

"Christianity must also be overthrown because it is based on Jewish sources; Christ must come to an end because only the rule of force is right. In the world order of the Axis powers, the individual has no rights; he has no freedom except in so far as he serves the state. There will be no liverty of thought or conscience, all issues will be decided by the state and the private citizen will have no right to an opinion. Men will be drafted like slaves into the service of the state."

--Alice Baily

Alice Bailey is one of the biggest influences on David dIcke, Jordan Maxwell and the new age gang...

Any way tptb can make you believe in Icke and others and disbelieve in Christ, they will do... if they need him to talk about controversial stuff or kill him, it will happen...

the rules are simple and so long as you free will your power away tptb are happy... because they serve L-boogie, "chief commander" and the fallen ones (nice name for a band, no?) :)

Icke will not tell you that UN is an ancient word for "satan" and the game is for your soul...

Re: Oh Mr Darwin..... why didn't all animals go extinct during the millions years it took evolution to NON-intelligently design umbilical cords?

Why didnt they go extinct after the flood when there was nothing to eat or drink?

Quoting: SheldonCooper

Exactly! And if you have ever read the Babble, you would see that God ordered Noah to kill a lot of the animals as a blood sacrifice to him as soon as they landed on dry earth. You wonder how the sacrifices bulls could live on? You wonder how a ant could survive in a wooden boat with an elephant? You wonder how Noah managed to get the koala bears and kangaroos on the ark since Australia was always a segregated land mass? You wonder where they went to find two polar bears?

I guess the only answers brain dead Christers can come up with is....GOD DID IT. How irrationally stupid can you be? And you answer EVERY ONE of this clueless guy's questions about evolution and he doesn't listen to a single word you say. DGN is a huge waste of your time. I am just writing this to tell you all not to bother with his posts. He needs to go to colllege and take a course in evolution. Of course, he was probably home schooled until the age of 25 or something. Could explain why he seems so delusional?

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814

um, most supposed diversity is answered by science... see Professor Veth... most species originate from small pool... nature naturally creates diverse varieties... Noah did not need that many animals...

:)

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22070412

Yes, I know and Lot's wife turned to salt. And a snake talked to Eve. And God made man from a pile of dirt but he created animals out of nothing. And God made the ENTIRE universe, all the stars, planets, etc. in ONE day...how amazing. And God made a donkey talk to his master using English language, in perfect sentences, while walking down some dusty road. And the sun stood still so some warrior could win some battle. And Jepthath had a daughter whom he sacrificed to God because God let him win a battle. And God commanded people to kill babies and rip open pregnant women in the wonderful book of the Babble. Blah, blah, blah, grow up. You don't live forever. You are nothing but a stupid evolved animal. Get over yourself. The only reason you believe in this garbage is because your ego is the size of an elephant.

Re: Oh Mr Darwin..... why didn't all animals go extinct during the millions years it took evolution to NON-intelligently design umbilical cords?

How many of you God Fearing Meatballs DON'T think God could create evolution?

Quoting: Frater

it is not that God cannot create evolution, it is that science creates separation from God and seeks to enslave humanity in the process, via our free will...

a Christ-centered society would not create a technocratic slave camp like the one we live in... this system is luciferian, by the words of tptb themselves...

read "Morals and Dogma" or consider Alice Bailey's "Lucius Trust" originally named "Lucifer Trust"... or the all-seeing eye... their "God" is not God, but lucifer... same story in rock and roll... you want power and fame in this system and you will sign your soul over in one form or another... many artists talk about this...

Re: Oh Mr Darwin..... why didn't all animals go extinct during the millions years it took evolution to NON-intelligently design umbilical cords?

Why didnt they go extinct after the flood when there was nothing to eat or drink?

Quoting: SheldonCooper

Exactly! And if you have ever read the Babble, you would see that God ordered Noah to kill a lot of the animals as a blood sacrifice to him as soon as they landed on dry earth. You wonder how the sacrifices bulls could live on? You wonder how a ant could survive in a wooden boat with an elephant? You wonder how Noah managed to get the koala bears and kangaroos on the ark since Australia was always a segregated land mass? You wonder where they went to find two polar bears?

I guess the only answers brain dead Christers can come up with is....GOD DID IT. How irrationally stupid can you be? And you answer EVERY ONE of this clueless guy's questions about evolution and he doesn't listen to a single word you say. DGN is a huge waste of your time. I am just writing this to tell you all not to bother with his posts. He needs to go to colllege and take a course in evolution. Of course, he was probably home schooled until the age of 25 or something. Could explain why he seems so delusional?

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814

um, most supposed diversity is answered by science... see Professor Veth... most species originate from small pool... nature naturally creates diverse varieties... Noah did not need that many animals...

:)

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22070412

Yes, I know and Lot's wife turned to salt. And a snake talked to Eve. And God made man from a pile of dirt but he created animals out of nothing. And God made the ENTIRE universe, all the stars, planets, etc. in ONE day...how amazing. And God made a donkey talk to his master using English language, in perfect sentences, while walking down some dusty road. And the sun stood still so some warrior could win some battle. And Jepthath had a daughter whom he sacrificed to God because God let him win a battle. And God commanded people to kill babies and rip open pregnant women in the wonderful book of the Babble. Blah, blah, blah, grow up. You don't live forever. You are nothing but a stupid evolved animal. Get over yourself. The only reason you believe in this garbage is because your ego is the size of an elephant.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814

actually I feel more humble and less self serving than I ever did as an artist in NYC... and my current views do nothing for my future in this 3-D... I am ok with that, because the evidence is conclusive to me... dig deeper if you really care and I trust you will come to the same conclusions... use true scientific method and the truth will out...

Re: Oh Mr Darwin..... why didn't all animals go extinct during the millions years it took evolution to NON-intelligently design umbilical cords?

I did not come to these conclusions by "faith" or ego, I am not afraid to die and become "nothing"... but I am also not interested in giving up my free will to satanic supernatural and occult forces who run things here, materially speaking...

a lot of money has been spent to make you biased and unaware of the nature of this reality... there is ample evidence for this... you can find many insightful links on my thread and put it together for yourself...

I have spent hundreds of hours researching to come to this position and I have to admit that I was pretty biased against religions when I started... I still think most are corrupt and refuse to go to a church... but I do read the bible and pray daily... and I continue to research and create based on my findings...

Re: Oh Mr Darwin..... why didn't all animals go extinct during the millions years it took evolution to NON-intelligently design umbilical cords?

you might consider that your soul represents a sort of organized energy created by God and in order for that energy to become eternal it must harmonize with God...

this is why Jesus said the most important law is to love God and each other... new age often leaves out or recreates the "God" part... for a reason...

anything that can cause separation from God will distort your spirit energy and if it is distorted enough it will be of no use to God...

these may be oversimplifications of quite profound and complex ideas, but this is not important for us in this reality... it is God's design that it be simple and easy to understand... you cut an apple open and see a five-pointed star--this geometry takes many more complicated forms, but we can deduce many things from this basic geometric shape--this is why it is found everywhere in nature, the militaries of the world and in the occult--the five-pointed star is used to access the supernatural...

it seems likely that we are relatively simple-minded and unable to grasp the most profound aspects of creation...

Re: Oh Mr Darwin..... why didn't all animals go extinct during the millions years it took evolution to NON-intelligently design umbilical cords?

How many of you God Fearing Meatballs DON'T think God could create evolution?

Quoting: Frater

good point, it seems some of them do like to explain the limits of gods power.

Quoting: david 16910407

the apparent "limits" are often simply expressions of free will God gives us... fractal universe... made in His image... try tending bees and you might see why God will appear to have limits... to the bee, maybe...

Re: Oh Mr Darwin..... why didn't all animals go extinct during the millions years it took evolution to NON-intelligently design umbilical cords?

How many of you God Fearing Meatballs DON'T think God could create evolution?

Quoting: Frater

it is not that God cannot create evolution, it is that science creates separation from God and seeks to enslave humanity in the process, via our free will...

a Christ-centered society would not create a technocratic slave camp like the one we live in... this system is luciferian, by the words of tptb themselves...

read "Morals and Dogma" or consider Alice Bailey's "Lucius Trust" originally named "Lucifer Trust"... or the all-seeing eye... their "God" is not God, but lucifer... same story in rock and roll... you want power and fame in this system and you will sign your soul over in one form or another... many artists talk about this...

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22070412

You do seem like a reasonable person of good will and I apologize for being smug in my initial comment.

Anyway i have read M&D or at least parts of it and have a real copy of the esoteric version from the Masons...

What people fail to understand is that God is all things both the Light and the Darkness. One God, Monotheism.

Re: Oh Mr Darwin..... why didn't all animals go extinct during the millions years it took evolution to NON-intelligently design umbilical cords?

The remnant yolk sacs of eggs evolved into the umbilical cord. It was much safer to have your fetus growing inside you than to have to lay eggs which proved as an evolutionary advantage for mammals and marsupials.

So basically, the eggs starting growing inside animals, which was advantageous. What was the yolk and other parts that are present in eggs, are still present in human embryos as well. Our early development is strikingly similar to reptiles' early development.

Quoting: AllGunsBlazing

Disregarding the fact that your explanation is purely 'just-so' speculation... Do you realize how many perfectly coordinated changes would have to occur in order to switch from an Ovoviviparous egg development and Viviparous placental gestation, while constantly conferring enough of a fitness advantage to become fixated in the population???

This supposed evolved fetus might be safer in the mother's womb, but how on earth do you reconcile a fitness advantage to the mother herself, now having to bare the burden of prolonged pregnancy??? Embryo safety is meaningless without survival advantage to the mother.

Where does her fitness advantage arise from bearing the extra weight and having to supply extra nutrition?

If these intermediate stages were so beneficial, how come there is not a trace of evidence for this body plan? Why no organisms using an intermediate gestation stage today?

Oh yea, let's not forget that we don't observe a single novel protein evolving today, much less the myriad of coordinated protein transportation systems evolved in embryonic development systems.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519

It's certainly not speculation, but ok, this should help beat down those straw men you're setting up.

Re: Oh Mr Darwin..... why didn't all animals go extinct during the millions years it took evolution to NON-intelligently design umbilical cords?

Why didnt they go extinct after the flood when there was nothing to eat or drink?[/quoteThey remained on the ark for months, they couldn't really walk on water, except for ducks which might of got an early out for a cruznhappy.."Now in the six hundred and first year, in the first month, on the first day of the month, it came about that the waters had drained from off the earth; and Noah proceeded to remove the covering of the ark and to look, and here the surface of the ground had drained dry. 14 And in the second month, on the twenty-seventh day of the month, the earth had dried off." Ge8:13

Re: Oh Mr Darwin..... why didn't all animals go extinct during the millions years it took evolution to NON-intelligently design umbilical cords?

The remnant yolk sacs of eggs evolved into the umbilical cord. It was much safer to have your fetus growing inside you than to have to lay eggs which proved as an evolutionary advantage for mammals and marsupials.

So basically, the eggs starting growing inside animals, which was advantageous. What was the yolk and other parts that are present in eggs, are still present in human embryos as well. Our early development is strikingly similar to reptiles' early development.

Quoting: AllGunsBlazing

Disregarding the fact that your explanation is purely 'just-so' speculation... Do you realize how many perfectly coordinated changes would have to occur in order to switch from an Ovoviviparous egg development and Viviparous placental gestation, while constantly conferring enough of a fitness advantage to become fixated in the population???

This supposed evolved fetus might be safer in the mother's womb, but how on earth do you reconcile a fitness advantage to the mother herself, now having to bare the burden of prolonged pregnancy??? Embryo safety is meaningless without survival advantage to the mother.

Where does her fitness advantage arise from bearing the extra weight and having to supply extra nutrition?

If these intermediate stages were so beneficial, how come there is not a trace of evidence for this body plan? Why no organisms using an intermediate gestation stage today?

Oh yea, let's not forget that we don't observe a single novel protein evolving today, much less the myriad of coordinated protein transportation systems evolved in embryonic development systems.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519

It's certainly not speculation, but ok, this should help beat down those straw men you're setting up.

The only "answers" in your links are simply information about different types of embryonic stages. The best "intermediate" provided is the same system I already mentioned: Ovoviviparous, where the eggs hatch inside the mother.

Can you fathom how many more changes are needed to transition to Viviparous gestation? Placenta, umbilical cord, and just go down the list of novel structures listed in OP's video. And all have to confer fitness advantage to mom.

Since each stage between Ovoviviparous and Viviparous would have had to be beneficial, (not to mention this "miracle of evolution" is a homologous, occurring across multiple phyla!) there should be evidence of this gradation in the fossil record, but there is not. We see sudden leaps between a small handful of embryonic arrangements!

Did every "convergent evolution" of embryonic stages just happen to settle on the same systems in multiple phyla, even though each intermediate stage would have had to be beneficial?

I want to hear a logical, practical answer. Not some lame cop-out like "oh well some eggs hatch inside the mom so it makes sense!"