Kyabje Jigdal Dagchen Sakya was born into the
Phuntshok branch of the Khon lineagein 1929 in south-western Tibet. As an imminent
successor to the throne of Sakya andfuture head of the Sakya School of Tibetan
Buddhism, Rinpochey's education was carefullyplanned by his father and Root Lama, Trichen
Ngawang Thutop Wangchuk. After hisfather passed away, Rinpochey chose to
travel to East Tibet to increase his knowledgeand experience of dharma.

In 1959 Rinpochey, his wife
Dagmo Kusho, an their family were forced to flee to India,where Rinpoche became the Sakya representative
to the Tibetan Religious Office in Exile.Rinpoche has resided in Seattle since 1960
along with his wife, five sons and other familymembers. He works actively to help preserve
and share the Tibetan Buddhist traditionwith present and future generations. To
this end he has given extensive initiations andteachings throughout the United States,
Canada, Europe and Asia and has established theSakya Monastery as a seat of cultural and
religious learning in the West.

Rinpochey spoke to Cho-Yang
during a recent visit to Dharamsala while on pilgrimageto the holy places in India.

Please tell me about your background and upbringing.Amongst the four different traditions of Tibetan
Buddhism, let me tell you about theSakya tradition, although I will not dwell
on the ancient history of the Sakyas. Thesedays as you can see we have in fact two Palaces
or Phodrangs, the Dolma Phodrangand the Phuntsok Phodrang. The throneholder
of the Dolma Phodrang presently residesin Rajpur near Dehra Dun, while I am the throneholder
of the Phuntsok Phodrang.

I stayed in Sakya practising Buddhism
until I was twenty-two years old. After that,in 1957, I went to Kham. At that time there
were many Lamas and tulkus in Khamand I planned to stay there for some time
to receive teachings from many of them, aswell as to give some teachings myself. Unfortunately,
with the changed circumstancesdue to the Chinese takeover of Tibet, in 1959
I left for India. Nevertheless, duringmy stay in Kham I had the opportunity to receive
teachings from high Lamas andtulkus of all four schools of Tibetan Buddhism.
This is my background.

Who were your principal gurus - was your father
one of them?In the Sakya tradition we have a very specific
teachings transmission called 'Lam Dre'or 'Path and Fruit' and the teacher from whom
you receive it is regarded as your principalLama. I received this from my father. So according
to the custom of our lineage, he ismy principal Lama. In addition to these teachings,
I received the transmission of theentire Sakya lineage from Jamyang Khyentse
Chokyi Lodro, a very highly revered andnonsectarian Lama. I have also received the
transmission of the entire teachings of theNyingma tradition from Dilgo Khyentse Rinpochey.
These then, are my most importantteachers. Besides them I have received minor
religious teachings from eleven teachersbelonging to various traditions.

Who are your principal disciples?It might have been possible to speak of principal
disciples if we had stayed in Tibet.However, now we are living in exile all my
disciples are like general disciples and Icannot say I have any principal disciples.

What are the major teachings you received from
your various gurus?I have received so many teachings that it
is really difficult to say.

How did you integrate meditation practice with
study in the course of your training?I have received the empowerments in a complete
manner, I have observed the retreatsand thereafter I have done the practices.
The main meditational deity of the Sakyatradition is Hevajra and I have meditated
on him for six months.

You have five dung seys (lit. heart son), can
you tell me about them?In Tibet, a dung sey would undergo
training according to the established tradition. Hehas to receive the empowerments and fulfil
the appropriate retreats and so forth.However, following the great changes that
have taken place in Tibet, it has becomevery difficult to abide by such traditions
in an alien land, particularly as I have settledin USA. So, we have been unable to do this.
Nevertheless, I am confident that my sonsbelong to the true Manjushri lineage of the
Khon clan. The main reason for this is thatthe great Indian pandit, Atisha Dipankara,
has prophesied that this is a lineage ofBodhisattvas such as Vajrapani, Avalokiteshvara
and Manjushri. Every Tibetan believesthis is true.

Have they been brought up in the traditional
Sakya training?Yes. In fact, my eldest son is known as Manju
Rinpochey. He was born when I was inKham. When I received teachings and empowerments
from Jamyang Khyentse ChokyiLodro he was with me and received almost all
of them too. If he continues to study andgo into retreat he can do it.

Can he maintain the traditional heritage?Yes he can. We are in an alien land. In our
own country there was an establisheddiscipline which is not to be found in a foreign
country. But if he concentrates onthis we will be glad. If he does not, there's
nothing to be done.

Are you concerned for the future of your lineage?That depends on two different points of view.
As far as the doctrines of Sakya, theSakya teachings, are concerned, they will
continue without change. But in the case ofhuman attitudes and people's ways of thinking
about those teachings, they may change.Padmasambhava said that there is actually
no change in the times, the change is inhuman attitude. So people change, but time
doesn't change. In just the same way, theSakya teachings will not change when the people
who receive them change.

Prior to Khon Konchog Gyalpo, the Khon family
were noted followers of the Nyingmapa- what remains in the tradition now of those
practices and what is your own relationshipto the Nyingmapa?Before Khon Konchog Gyalpo there were nine
generations of Lamas, all belongingto the Nyingma tradition. The name Khon refers
to the ineraction between celestialbeings and spirits. Khon Konchog Gyalpo's
son, Sachen Kunga Nyingpo started the'new' lineage of the Sakya tradition. So,
nowadays, the Sakya tradition has two mainmeditational deities. One is Vajrakilaya which
is derived from the Nyingma traditionand the other is Hevajra which belongs to
the Sakya tradition.

You are an Upasaka yourself - yet the Sakya
tradition is also strongly monastic. Whatdo you think are the advantages or disadvantages
of being a Dharma practitioner asa lay person or an ordained one - particularly
in the modern world?I don't think there are any specific advantages
or disadvantages. For example, SachenKunga Nyingpo became a tantric practitioner
and practised as a layman, primarily inorder that he could pass on the lineage. On
the other hand is two sons, Sonam Tsemoand Dakpa Gyaltsen, although they belonged
to the lineage of Ngag chang tantricpractitioners, they lived as celibate upasakas.
The most important thing is to maintaina pure spiritual lineage. Whether he is practising
as a lay householder or as a celibate,it all depends on the Lama's conduct. In the
Sakya tradition, if there are two brothers,one becomes a tantric yogi and the other becomes
a brahmachari bhikshu, a celibatemonk. These things are all described in the
Sakya Dungrab, the history of the SakyaMasters.

I have heard you are regarded as one of the
five incarnations of the first JamyangKhyentse. Is that true?It is not me. Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo had
five incarnations or emanations of body,speech, mind, wisdom or quality and virtuous
activity. My guru Jamyang KhyentseChokyi Lodro was the emanation of his virtuous
activity. Dilgo Khyentse Rinpocheywas the emanation of mind and my father was
the emanation of speech.

Since coming into exile what have been your
principal activities?I left Lhasa in 1959 at the same time that
His Holiness the Dalai Lama came to India.I remained in India until 1961, when I went
to the USA where I worked for about elevenyears as a research scholar at the University
of Washington. Having become establishedthere from that time I have been practising
and teachings Buddhism. I am very happyand content to involve myself in the true
work of practising and teaching the Dharma.

When you teach in US and elsewhere, what teachings
do you generally give?I teach according to what the listeners want.
Some want empowerments, some wantteachings and explanations and some want to
meditate. I try to comply with their wishes.

What do you regard as your greatest contribution
to the Dharma?The practice of the mind of enlightenment
bodhicitta and the four immeasurable wishes.Putting this into practice and teaching about
it is, I think, a great contribution.

These are inner realisations, I was thinking
more of external achievements in the world.Mainly guiding others, looking after my disciples
in times of difficulty, trying to helpothers according to the situation they find
themselves in. For example, some of themhave mental problems, others have family problems.
I teach them how to calm down.Other people have problems of tension and
depression and take a lot of drugs as aresult, so I try to offer them an alternative
source of relief.

How do you view the spread of the Dharma to
the West?Wherever the Buddhadharma goes is very good.
As human beings wherever we are,our human form is accompanied by suffering
and happiness. The Buddhadharmateaches us how to overcome the suffering and
promote happiness.

Do you feel the role of women in Buddhism is
changing?In Tibet, women could become nuns and men
could become monks, so there was nodifference as long as they observed their
discipline strictly. As far as the Buddha'steachings are concerned, they are meant equally
for men and women, so there is nodifference.

Do you have anything to say to the Tibetans
in general?As refugees it is important to think about
the Buddha's teachings about the nature ofimpermanence. Because of that we should be
kind to each other, help each other andnever harm each other. Also, we should try
to observe the law of cause and effect andkeep up our faith in the Three Jewels.

What is the aim of your current pilgrimage
in India?It is very important to go on pilgrimage.
The benefits of making pilgrimage to holyplaces are described in many ancient scriptures.
Moreover, India is the land wherethe Buddha was born, where he attained enlightenment
and finally where he enteredinto parinirvana. So by offering your body,
speech and mind at all these places youcan collect merit. Then while we are there
we pray for the happiness of all sentientbeings. This is the aim of pilgrimage.

And where are you going?Mainly the eight places sacred to Buddhism.

Do you also intend to visit Tibet?I have many disciples in Kham, Tibet who have
been writing to me constantly and askingme to visit Tibet. I cannot say I will not
visit them. Perhaps as times change I will be ableto. Certainly I would like to go there.