I'd like to start a discussion about what the White Sox need to do in terms of the roster for next season, so that the 2007 season is an aberration instead of a slide into oblivion for the next few years.

Let's start with the free agents. I think if any of these players can bring us something that makes us better in 2008, we make the move at the deadline.

Dye, Uribe, Mackowiack

I think it needs to be a priority to sign Iguchi to an extension. What price do people think it will take to keep Iguchi here- 18M/3 years?

Buehrle- obviously this is the big question mark. Does 60M/4 years keep Mark on the south side? If so, then that is a deal that needs to get done. IF Buerhrle can be resigned, then I think the Sox should shop Contreras at the deadline and look to get his 10M salary off the books for 2008. A rotation of Buehrle/Garland/Vazquez/Danks/5th starter should remain very solid in 2008.

If Buehrle's value is going to be more on the order of 90M/5 years, then there is no way the Sox can or should do that.

Crede- how does his injury affect his value? Clearly the Sox need to play Fields for the remainder of the year and see if he is ready.

Podsednik/Erstad- I think a lot depends on how these guys come back from injury this year, and I think it is likely that at least one of them is on the roster for next year.

If the Sox resign Iguchi at 6M and Buehrle at 15M, and were to trade Contreras, that is about 83M on the books for next season.

If KW were to keep the payroll at it's current level, that gives us about 25M to spend to solve SS/3B/LF/CF/RF

So what are some options? What about this? Make a push to go after Ichiro. 60M/4 years? Also make a push to sign Aaron Rowand 18M/3 years? (this is not about man-love for Aaron Rowand- it's about the fact that we are desperate for outfielders and he should be an affordable solution.) Resign Podsednik 3M/1 year. The only hole left to fill is shortstop, which could hopefully be filled by a replacement through the trades of Contreras or Dye, if not, Cintron is probably the best option that we have.

I don't want Pods or Uribe anywhere near the Sox next season. Pods is way to risky to depend on for what he offers in return. I'm just tired of watching Uribe corkscrew himself into the ground trying to hit the ball 700 feet.

I would do anything to keep Buerhle locked up. He needs to stay for quite a while.

I'd hope Dye can get hot and deal him for something of value. I think he is expendable, but again that leaves three holes in the outfield for next season. I don't think Ichiro is a viable option either. Erstad should stay, but in no more than a fourth outfielder/backup 1B role. You can't depend on his health to make him a starter. We are learning that now.

Really the only people I want back are Konerko, Iguchi, AJ, Buehrle, Garland, Danks, Jenks, Thornton and some of the kids. I'm alright with trading everyone else on the roster if you can get something of value. I'm much more willing to go through three years of rebuilding rather than patch together a roster that won't win anything anyway.

RedHeadPaleHoser

06-13-2007, 03:38 PM

Where to go from here? Up, hopefully.

peeonwrigley

06-13-2007, 03:39 PM

Put the 2005 DVD on a loop and check back in February?

DSpivack

06-13-2007, 03:42 PM

I think Sweeney should get a long look this season. We don't have the $$$ to sign three, or even two, high-priced OF FAs.

alohafri

06-13-2007, 03:50 PM

I think Sweeney should get a long look this season. We don't have the $$$ to sign three, or even two, high-priced OF FAs.

I agree. Let's see what our supposed "future stars" can do in the bigs. This season is lost. Fields? He is there for the rest of the year. Sweeny? Bring him up. I would just flat release Prinz, Bukvich, Thornton, MacDoodie, and Aardsma. None of them are the answer. I say, bring up Gio Gonzalez and some of the other guys in AA and see how they handle major league hitters. Face it, we are the Tampa Bay Devil Rays with a much larger payroll.

If someone would have told me that we would be THIS bad, I would have laughed. I figured the Sox for an 85 win season. At this rate, we will be looking up at the Royals.

AJ Hellraiser

06-13-2007, 03:51 PM

It's sad that we have to blow up the roster but it's the truth.... it'll be weird seeing many of our heroes from 2005 leave but the time has come and there is no doubting that....

I agree. Let's see what our supposed "future stars" can do in the bigs. This season is lost. Fields? He is there for the rest of the year. Sweeny? Bring him up. I would just flat release Prinz, Bukvich, Thornton, MacDoodie, and Aardsma. None of them are the answer. I say, bring up Gio Gonzalez and some of the other guys in AA and see how they handle major league hitters. Face it, we are the Tampa Bay Devil Rays with a much larger payroll.

Actually the Devil Rays are better than us right now... think about that for a second... I noticed it last night and I instantly ran to the toilet...

russ99

06-13-2007, 03:56 PM

I guess the biggest question about the 2008 Sox is what the payroll budget is going to be, especially with the expected drop-off of ticket sales if the Sox don't turn it around this season. Though personally I'd likely keep my Ozzie plan if I were assured all-season lower deck tickets again.

Will Jerry pay Iguchi 5-6 million, Rowand 8 million, Ichiro 12 million, Buehrle 10-12 million and our other current veteran starting pitchers their salaries?? I can't say that he would...

As for non-rookies, A.J, Thome, Garland and Jenks and maybe Vazquez (since the Yankees are still paying a part of his salary) are probably the only current players worth their 2008 salary right now, so they'd likely be kept. Everyone else is a question mark.

We could have a youth movement - no matter if we like it or not. Maybe Kenny's been stockpiling those young pitchers for a reason, to avoid a Devil-Ray drop-off when the Sox do go younger.

WhiteSox5187

06-13-2007, 04:00 PM

I'd like to start a discussion about what the White Sox need to do in terms of the roster for next season, so that the 2007 season is an aberration instead of a slide into oblivion for the next few years.

Let's start with the free agents. I think if any of these players can bring us something that makes us better in 2008, we make the move at the deadline.

Dye, Uribe, Mackowiack

I think it needs to be a priority to sign Iguchi to an extension. What price do people think it will take to keep Iguchi here- 18M/3 years?

Buehrle- obviously this is the big question mark. Does 60M/4 years keep Mark on the south side? If so, then that is a deal that needs to get done. IF Buerhrle can be resigned, then I think the Sox should shop Contreras at the deadline and look to get his 10M salary off the books for 2008. A rotation of Buehrle/Garland/Vazquez/Danks/5th starter should remain very solid in 2008.

If Buehrle's value is going to be more on the order of 90M/5 years, then there is no way the Sox can or should do that.

Crede- how does his injury affect his value? Clearly the Sox need to play Fields for the remainder of the year and see if he is ready.

Podsednik/Erstad- I think a lot depends on how these guys come back from injury this year, and I think it is likely that at least one of them is on the roster for next year.

If the Sox resign Iguchi at 6M and Buehrle at 15M, and were to trade Contreras, that is about 83M on the books for next season.

If KW were to keep the payroll at it's current level, that gives us about 25M to spend to solve SS/3B/LF/CF/RF

So what are some options? What about this? Make a push to go after Ichiro. 60M/4 years? Also make a push to sign Aaron Rowand 18M/3 years? (this is not about man-love for Aaron Rowand- it's about the fact that we are desperate for outfielders and he should be an affordable solution.) Resign Podsednik 3M/1 year. The only hole left to fill is shortstop, which could hopefully be filled by a replacement through the trades of Contreras or Dye, if not, Cintron is probably the best option that we have.

Thoughts?
I like that potential lineup except that I think you hope that Crede is 100% next year and then you have him as your starting third baseman. I also don't want Cintron in this lineup. Uribe would be better than Cintron at this point.

Why bring back Podsednik? I've seen enough of him. His only value if his speed at the top of the order. He was brought back this year because we couldn't find a better option. If we were able to sign Ichiro, that eliminates our need for Podsednik.

As to your original question - we wait. At this point, I really can't say this looks like anything close to a playoff team, but it's still a bit too early to completely sell off, unless some team is willing to pay a steep price to force KW's hand. Once we get to the point of selling off, KW and Ozzie need to find out what these young players can do, mainly Brian Anderson. Once our playoff hopes our dashed, we might as well get something out of this season - developing the younger players and finding out who might be able to contribute next season. Anderson is the biggest question. He had a bad rookie season. He struggled early this season and isn't exactly tearing up AAA with his .256 AVG and .713 OPS. The organization needs to make a decision on whether there's still enough hope to depend on Anderson, or whether it's time to cut bait and give him a change of scenery.

Along the same thought, we might as well see what Sweeney and Fields can do. Sweeney has already shown some signs that he can be an everyday player at this level, though obviously the consistency isn't there. The jury is still out on Fields, though he's gotten off to a slow start. And you can add Terrero into that mix. He's shown that he has power, but what else can he do? Is it possible he could be a valuable contributor to this team?

That's basically what the rest of this season has to be about, barring some huge turnaround. Once some of those questions are answered, it will be a bit more clear what needs to be done this offseason.

alohafri

06-13-2007, 04:07 PM

Why bring back Podsednik? I've seen enough of him.

Like the Cubs and Wood and Prior. We don't need him!

nevr say dye sox

06-13-2007, 04:09 PM

I read somewhere that Joe Nathan is going to be a free agent next year. What do you think it would take to get him. However, I don't want to see Uribe on this team next year nor Cintron playing s.s. either.

Also Omar Vizquel is a FA, even though he's old maybe KW could land him this time. At this point we should know if were going to be able to re sign Burhle, if we can't why not try to trade him to Tampa for Carl Crawford?

PatK

06-13-2007, 04:11 PM

I can't see Iguchi getting $6 million a year.

russ99

06-13-2007, 04:11 PM

Why bring back Podsednik? I've seen enough of him. His only value if his speed at the top of the order.

He'd be a decent bench player - used for speed and hitting, not defense - at a much-reduced salary (due to injury concerns) and could be a potential lead-off guy if healthy when the Sox go young.

If Ozuna comes back there's probably no need for Pods, but who's to say how well Ozuna comes back from such a horrible injury...

I don' t see us getting Ichiro. if the team were 1-2 players away from a series-contending team maybe, but not if the current team is blown up.

You can probably axe the idea of acquiring anyone costing more that 5-6 million a season unless it's for a keystone hitter. I don't see Jerry going over a 80 million payroll next season.

Jjav829

06-13-2007, 04:15 PM

I read somewhere that Joe Nathan is going to be a free agent next year. What do you think it would take to get him. However, I don't want to see Uribe on this team next year nor Cintron playing s.s. either.

You need better sources. The Twins have a $6 million option on Nathan for 2008, which they will obviously exercise.

Also Omar Vizquel is a FA, even though he's old maybe KW could land him this time.This team needs to find a young shortstop of the future. We don't need a 40-year-old stopgap.

At this point we should know if were going to be able to re sign Burhle, if we can't why not try to trade him to Tampa for Carl Crawford?Because Tampa Bay isn't giving up Carl Crawford for 3 months of a pitcher they won't sign after this season.

russ99

06-13-2007, 04:17 PM

You need better sources. The Twins have a $6 million option on Nathan for 2008, which they will obviously exercise.

This team needs to fine a young shortstop of the future. We don't need a 40-year-old stopgap.

Because Tampa Bay isn't giving up Carl Crawford for 3 months of a pitcher they won't sign after this season.

Amen. If the Sox go white flag on us, and due to the performance of this team, it's probably looking that way, the Sox will get solid young players in return who aren't due 10 million in a season or two.

The Immigrant

06-13-2007, 04:19 PM

Why would Ichiro sign with this version of the White Sox? The Mariners are in a much better position to contend than we are. It's a pipe dream.

Flight #24

06-13-2007, 04:20 PM

Will Jerry pay Iguchi 5-6 million, Rowand 8 million, Ichiro 12 million, Buehrle 10-12 million and our other current veteran starting pitchers their salaries?? I can't say that he would...

You're way low on both Ichiro and Burls. $15-18 for each is more likely.

Sargeant79

06-13-2007, 04:21 PM

At this point we should know if were going to be able to re sign Burhle, if we can't why not try to trade him to Tampa for Carl Crawford?

:bong:

Put it down, and step away slowly...

russ99

06-13-2007, 04:24 PM

You're way low on both Ichiro and Burls. $15-18 for each is more likely.

But I thought the market is going to correct itself...

nevr say dye sox

06-13-2007, 04:31 PM

so what I'm being told, is not to expect much from the Sox for the next 3-5 years. If we are going to unload FA for prospects, we have proven that as an organization we can't evaluate talent, and were going to end up with Mod edit: don't try to evade language filters in return.

russ99

06-13-2007, 04:38 PM

so what I'm being told, is not to expect much from the Sox for the next 3-5 years. If we are going to unload FA for prospects, we have proven that as an organization we can't evaluate talent, and were going to end up with Mod edit: don't quote posts with language filter violations in return.

Not necessarily prospects. If Kenny were smart, he'd get young and talented players with some MLB experience instead of borderline prospects.

Then again, would teams be willing to part with those players for a rental? Maybe also parting with non-FA players like Konerko or Contreras would be more likely to bring back younger major leaguers to rebuild around.

The young starting pitching core is already there with Garland, Danks and Sox prospects like Broadway and Gio, Kenny's task is to rebuild the offense with younger guys to a point where the Sox can return to contender status in 1-2 seasons. A bullpen can always be cobbled together, especially if the Sox learn from their mistake of targeting power arms.

Sargeant79

06-13-2007, 04:41 PM

so what I'm being told, is not to expect much from the Sox for the next 3-5 years. If we are going to unload FA for prospects, we have proven that as an organization we can't evaluate talent, and were going to end up with Mod edit: don't quote language filter violations in return.

Not entirely accurate. One part you are correct with is that the organization's ability to evaluate talent is at least worth questioning at this point. We appear to have some very good young pitching that will be ready to be phased in over the next couple years, but the jury is definitely out on the position players.

The thing its that signing forty-something year old shortstops is not a good idea if you're trying to get younger, which is one of the things the Sox need to do, IMHO.

A Carl Crawford for Buehrle trade isn't going to happen, and wouldn't happen even if Buehrle wasn't a free agent. The notion that any team would give up a young, relatively inexpensive budding superstar for a rental is almost ridiculous. While I, Kenny Williams, and most of this board would do that deal, the Rays wouldn't. A deal like that deal makes no sense from Tampa's standpoint, and you need two willing partners to consumate a trade.

I think with the right moves, this team may very well be able to contend in 2008, and certainly by 2009. But it will take some shrewd deals that restock the organization with talented young position players as well as a lot of good timing and good breaks to make it happen.

INSox56

06-13-2007, 04:43 PM

I hadn't thought about it until now...and it's a little off topic...but anyone else feel bad for Thome if we do what we should and go young? The guy came here for a title and a chance to contend and we've just completely sucked ass either in pitching (last year) or hitting (obviously this year)

russ99

06-13-2007, 04:46 PM

I hadn't thought about it until now...and it's a little off topic...but anyone else feel bad for Thome if we do what we should and go young? The guy came here for a title and a chance to contend and we've just completely sucked ass either in pitching (last year) or hitting (obviously this year)

Not at all, he's moving towards the end of his career, can't really play a position anymore (no NL) and gets a nice salary playing close to home. He's probably the best guy to keep around to show the young guys how to play if we re-build.

Law11

06-13-2007, 04:48 PM

Where to go from here?
Boubonnais.. Training Camp is a month away..

INSox56

06-13-2007, 04:48 PM

Not at all, he's moving towards the end of his career, can't really play a position anymore (no NL) and gets a nice salary playing close to home. He's probably the best guy to keep around to show the young guys how to play if we re-build.True, I just feel bad that odds are he won't win a championship. Of all the guys in the league, he might be most deserving.

getonbckthr

06-13-2007, 04:59 PM

Please say no to Iguchi. Sure he may be the best 2B the last 3 seasons but take away 05 and where is he? He has really digressed. 2nd Burls will get more than 15 million. He isn't worth the 17-18 he will get. I would try to trade him and Iguchi to the Mets for Heilman and Milledge. Heilman moves into the rotation immediately and Milledge platoons in the OF. Dye will not be worth his contract next season either. Try moving him and Contreras. Possibly Anaheim for Figgins, Santana and a prospect. Anaheim needs a bat behind Vlad and they aren't happy with the progression Santana has failed to make. Figgins truly, even though he starts currently, doesn't have any future there next season. As far as Groundoutwiak get him off my team. He sucks. Lets remember guys he was a utility guy on Pirate teams that had chances to set records for losses. In fact stop having these Super-utility guys (uberutes). Go old school give me a guy who can backup 1B/3B, SS/2B,C, and OF. 4 bench guys.
Next Season throw money at Ichiro I feel we can get him. I have a feeling JR and KW have an agreement that if Arod becomes available getting him will be priority and his contract would not impact the budget given to Kenny. So go get him. Consider a guy like Luis Castillo to play 2B. He will cost at most the same as Iguchi probably less and in my eyes is better. Try to sign Linebrink as long as it isn't crazy. How I wish the team to look for 08:
C- AJ, Toby
1B- Paulie, Fields
2B- Castillo, Figgins,Pablo
SS-Arod, Figgins, Pablo
3B-Crede, Fields
LF-Milledge/Owens (who ever earns it after April Platoon)
CF-Ichiro, Owens
RF-Sweeney/Anderson (who ever earns it in the spring)
SP- Garland, Vazquez, Danks, Heilman, Santana
RP-Jenks, Thronton, Logan, Aardsma, Day, Linebrink, Sisco

hose

06-13-2007, 05:08 PM

where to go from here?-----5th place----soon

GAsoxfan

06-13-2007, 05:19 PM

True, I just feel bad that odds are he won't win a championship. Of all the guys in the league, he might be most deserving.

He could win one with the Angels. They need a bat and Thome would be a huge improvement over Hillenbrand. In 60 less ABs, Thome has 5 more HRs (8-3), over eight times as many walks (41-5) and his OPS is over four hundred points higher than Shea's (1.009-.595).

ZombieRob

06-13-2007, 05:23 PM

Would anyone be shocked if Thome is dealt in the offseason?Or maybe P.K? I have a feeling its going to be a rebuild type season.I could see them keeping P.K only becuse they don't have a 1st baseman in the minors.Then Again they don't have much of anything in the minors.

You don't seriously think that we're getting all of those guys, do you? Hell, I don't think that this team lands TWO of them.

ZombieRob

06-13-2007, 05:26 PM

You don't seriously think that we're getting all of those guys, do you? Hell, I don't think that this team lands TWO of them.
I think were going to see a fire sale in the offseason .But i agree with you the Sox wont be adding contracts or big names for sure.

getonbckthr

06-13-2007, 05:28 PM

You don't seriously think that we're getting all of those guys, do you? Hell, I don't think that this team lands TWO of them.
Castillo is cheaper than Iguchi and is friends with Ozzie. Arod and Ichiro were hopes. The other guys were potential trades this season. Do I think it would happen not likely but it is what I would like to see and believe is possible.

ZombieRob

06-13-2007, 05:30 PM

Ichiro is a Yankee or a Red Sox next year.

Sargeant79

06-13-2007, 05:32 PM

Would anyone be shocked if Thome is dealt in the offseason?Or maybe P.K? I have a feeling its going to be a rebuild type season.I could see them keeping P.K only becuse they don't have a 1st baseman in the minors.Then Again they don't have much of anything in the minors.

Wouldn't surprise me to see Thome dealt, although I don't know what they would be replacing his left-handed bat with.

I would be very surprised to see Konerko moved, simply because it makes sense to keep him. He is young enough to where he will probably continue to be very productive for the life of his contract with the Sox. beyond that, there are not many, if any, cheaper alternatives out there. Replacing his production would be expensive, not to mention the above average defense and leadership that he brings to the table. And as you said, they don't really have a good first base option in the minors.

DSpivack

06-13-2007, 05:44 PM

Wouldn't surprise me to see Thome dealt, although I don't know what they would be replacing his left-handed bat with.

I would be very surprised to see Konerko moved, simply because it makes sense to keep him. He is young enough to where he will probably continue to be very productive for the life of his contract with the Sox. beyond that, there are not many, if any, cheaper alternatives out there. Replacing his production would be expensive, not to mention the above average defense and leadership that he brings to the table. And as you said, they don't really have a good first base option in the minors.

Is Rogo not a viable option?

Sargeant79

06-13-2007, 05:48 PM

Is Rogo not a viable option?

Rogo is hitting only .195 right now in a little over 200 at bats. He's 26, and I don't think he's a legitimate prospect. Probably projects to a solid backup first basemen at the major league level, but I would definitely not consider him a long-term solution.

russ99

06-13-2007, 05:58 PM

Rogo is hitting only .195 right now in a little over 200 at bats. He's 26, and I don't think he's a legitimate prospect. Probably projects to a solid backup first basemen at the major league level, but I would definitely not consider him a long-term solution.

Paulie's starting to break out of his hitting funk, but he has a pretty big contract and the larger years of the deal are coming up. Also he's probably the one guy the Sox have that could return a really good player or two in a trade, so he's definitely a possibility to be dealt. Maybe the Sox could get someone like Texiera in another deal?

The Immigrant

06-13-2007, 06:03 PM

Paulie's starting to break out of his hitting funk, but he has a pretty big contract and the larger years of the deal are coming up.

Paulie's contract is evenly amortized - $12 million for each of the 5 years.

Besides, there's absolutely no way the White Sox trade Paul Konerko the same year they move Mark Buehrle. Paulie's going nowhere.

Nellie_Fox

06-13-2007, 06:04 PM

Where to go from here?
Boubonnais.. Training Camp is a month away..Dan McNeil, is that you?

Hitmen77

06-13-2007, 06:06 PM

I'd like to start a discussion about what the White Sox need to do in terms of the roster for next season, so that the 2007 season is an aberration instead of a slide into oblivion for the next few years.

- Trade Dye at this year's trading deadline. (what do people think we would get for him?)

- Offer Buehrle up to 5 yrs/80 million (7 million raise over his current annual salary). If he accepts, then trade either Contreras or Vazquez during the offseason (which will free up $10-12 million in salary) then open up 5th spot to Gio, Floyd, Broadway, etc.

- Sign Aaron Rowand

- Re-sign Iguchi

- Sign David Eckstein for SS and say bye-bye to Uribe.

- At 3rd, we'll just have to see how Fields does the rest of this season and if Crede looks healthy in spring training. If Fields does well, and Crede looks like he can play in March - trade Crede.

- Gavin Floyd will either be a starter or in the bullpen for the Sox in '08 because he'll be out of options.

Ok, flame away.:wink: I'm not sure how much that adds up to salary-wise. I think A-Rod and Ichiro are just pipe dreams. I'd love to see them here, but it just ain't gonna happen.

Sargeant79

06-13-2007, 06:07 PM

Paulie's contract is evenly amortized - $12 million for each of the 5 years.

Besides, there's absolutely no way the White Sox trade Paul Konerko the same year they move Mark Buehrle. Paulie's going nowhere.

Agreed. Plus, Texeira is a Boras client and will probably be just as if not more expensive than Konerko by the time he signs a new deal.

fram40

06-13-2007, 07:17 PM

Here's my take

Trade Buerhle for two "can't miss" prospects - most likely ss and 2nd base. I hate to see Buerhle go, but ... who else can they trade to get real value in return. Are two can't miss prospects too much to expect? Throw in additional - whatever is needed, Contreras maybe, to get two middle infielders. Maybe Sox get another outfielder as well. Not sure I am thrilled with the four outfielders listed below.

Resign Garland other possible starters are Vazquez, Denks, Gio, Masset, Broadway, who else is out there

Maybe they get lucky with relief - catch some luck like in '05.

WhiteSox5187

06-13-2007, 07:22 PM

Ok, I'll give this a shot:

- Trade Dye at this year's trading deadline. (what do people think we would get for him?)

- Offer Buehrle up to 5 yrs/80 million (7 million raise over his current annual salary). If he accepts, then trade either Contreras or Vazquez during the offseason (which will free up $10-12 million in salary) then open up 5th spot to Gio, Floyd, Broadway, etc.

- Sign Aaron Rowand

- Re-sign Iguchi

- Sign David Eckstein for SS and say bye-bye to Uribe.

- At 3rd, we'll just have to see how Fields does the rest of this season and if Crede looks healthy in spring training. If Fields does well, and Crede looks like he can play in March - trade Crede.

- Gavin Floyd will either be a starter or in the bullpen for the Sox in '08 because he'll be out of options.

Ok, flame away.:wink: I'm not sure how much that adds up to salary-wise. I think A-Rod and Ichiro are just pipe dreams. I'd love to see them here, but it just ain't gonna happen.
I like the idea of Eckstein at short, but I don't think those moves are going to happen. I can kinda picture Buerhle re-signing with us and I could also see Ichiro in a Sox uni in 2008, but that's about it. My ideal starting OF would be Ichiro in RF, Rowand in CF either Owens, Sweeney or Anderson in LF, we use this time now and ST to determine who gets left. I also like the idea of trading Javy or El Hombre Viejo too.

MRM

06-13-2007, 07:30 PM

Buehrle 10-12 million

Vazquez (since the Yankees are still paying a part of his salary)

If Buehrle would accept 10-12mil he'd have been signed long ago. It's going to take FAR more than that.

Vazquez money won't be coming from anywhere else next year. Next year the contract extention he just signed kicks in. All 11.5mil will be paid by the Sox.

Noneck

06-13-2007, 07:43 PM

Ok, I'll give this a shot:

- Trade Dye at this year's trading deadline. (what do people think we would get for him?)

- Offer Buehrle up to 5 yrs/80 million (7 million raise over his current annual salary). If he accepts, then trade either Contreras or Vazquez during the offseason (which will free up $10-12 million in salary) then open up 5th spot to Gio, Floyd, Broadway, etc.

- Sign Aaron Rowand

- Re-sign Iguchi

- Sign David Eckstein for SS and say bye-bye to Uribe.

- At 3rd, we'll just have to see how Fields does the rest of this season and if Crede looks healthy in spring training. If Fields does well, and Crede looks like he can play in March - trade Crede.

- Gavin Floyd will either be a starter or in the bullpen for the Sox in '08 because he'll be out of options.

Ok, flame away.:wink: I'm not sure how much that adds up to salary-wise. I think A-Rod and Ichiro are just pipe dreams. I'd love to see them here, but it just ain't gonna happen.

Signing Burls, Gooch, Rowand , Eckstein for Uribe and losing Contreras Or Vasquez and Dye and possible Crede would be a salary wash at best>

No way the chairman will increase salaries or keep them constant next year with the drop in revenue this year.

ChiSoxFan7

06-14-2007, 03:48 PM

Where to go from here? Up, hopefully.

unless we change our names to the royals, we can't go any lower:rolleyes:

MRM

06-14-2007, 08:50 PM

Signing Burls, Gooch, Rowand , Eckstein for Uribe and losing Contreras Or Vasquez and Dye and possible Crede would be a salary wash at best>

No way the chairman will increase salaries or keep them constant next year with the drop in revenue this year.

MB+Gooch+Rowand+Eckstein will cost FAR more than Uribe, Vasquez, Dye, and Crede next year. MB is likely to make more than Uribe, Dye, and Crede combined next season.

Noneck

06-14-2007, 09:16 PM

MB+Gooch+Rowand+Eckstein will cost FAR more than Uribe, Vasquez, Dye, and Crede next year. MB is likely to make more than Uribe, Dye, and Crede combined next season.

Thanks, That what I first thought but really low balled just to make sure. But you did confirm that the scenario posted is a major pipe dream.

Hitmen77

06-14-2007, 09:23 PM

MB+Gooch+Rowand+Eckstein will cost FAR more than Uribe, Vasquez, Dye, and Crede next year. MB is likely to make more than Uribe, Dye, and Crede combined next season.

But MB already takes up $9 millon of our salary. I guess it depends on what you can sign him for. If they can sign him for $16 million/yr and then trade Vazquez and his $12 million salary - that's a net reduction in $5 million committed to the starting rotation. (plus you'll have to add the league minimun that Floyd or Gio will make.)

As far as Iguchi+Rowand+Eckstein ...I guess it depends on what people think those guys will fetch this offseason and how much more of our payroll that would eat up (counting only in the increase in Iguchi's salary) - and how that compares to getting rid of Dye, Uribe, Crede (7 +4 + 5 = $16 million).

I know this is all unlikely to happen and is really just a pipe dream to kill time during a dreary season, but I don't think it's accurate to say that this combination of players to acquire/keep will eat up far more of our payroll than the guys listed above who we would supposedly let go.

MRM

06-14-2007, 11:20 PM

But MB already takes up $9 millon of our salary. I guess it depends on what you can sign him for. If they can sign him for $16 million/yr and then trade Vazquez and his $12 million salary - that's a net reduction in $5 million committed to the starting rotation. (plus you'll have to add the league minimun that Floyd or Gio will make.)

As far as Iguchi+Rowand+Eckstein ...I guess it depends on what people think those guys will fetch this offseason and how much more of our payroll that would eat up (counting only in the increase in Iguchi's salary) - and how that compares to getting rid of Dye, Uribe, Crede (7 +4 + 5 = $16 million).

I know this is all unlikely to happen and is really just a pipe dream to kill time during a dreary season, but I don't think it's accurate to say that this combination of players to acquire/keep will eat up far more of our payroll than the guys listed above who we would supposedly let go.

OK, for the sake of argument, call it a wash. Now where does the money come from to fix the teams actual problems? Would changing out Rowand in CF and Eckstein at SS made a difference this year? Hell no. So how do you actually FIX whats broke by going with this scenerio? Is Floyd or Gio > Vazquez? Most definately no, as of now. So you get worse at SP and remain fairly the same, maybe a slight uptick in offense.

And this doesn't even factor in the almost certainty that next years payroll is going to be smaller than this years. I can think of no scenerio where it's feasible to both re-sigh MB AND be a better overall team next year.

Scottiehaswheels

06-15-2007, 12:50 AM

I just came up with a sick sick idea I can actually see happen... Toby Hall traded to the Scrubs for Barrett and Isturis... :whiner:

WhiteSox5187

06-15-2007, 03:24 AM

I just came up with a sick sick idea I can actually see happen... Toby Hall traded to the Scrubs for Barrett and Isturis... :whiner:
Izturis is an improvement over Uribe. There is absolutely one hundred percent no chance in hell that Barrett ever plays for the Sox. None.

MRM

06-15-2007, 03:26 AM

Izturis is an improvement over Uribe. There is absolutely one hundred percent no chance in hell that Barrett ever plays for the Sox. None.

Why all the Uribe hate in here?

CWSpalehoseCWS

06-15-2007, 03:41 AM

Izturis is an improvement over Uribe. There is absolutely one hundred percent no chance in hell that Barrett ever plays for the Sox. None.

Izturis is terrible. At least Uribe will give you 20+ HR's a season.

Hitmen77

06-15-2007, 10:24 AM

OK, for the sake of argument, call it a wash. Now where does the money come from to fix the teams actual problems? Would changing out Rowand in CF and Eckstein at SS made a difference this year? Hell no. So how do you actually FIX whats broke by going with this scenerio? Is Floyd or Gio > Vazquez? Most definately no, as of now. So you get worse at SP and remain fairly the same, maybe a slight uptick in offense.

Of all the scenarios, the one thing I am most certain of is that one of our current veteran starting pitchers will be gone and the 5th spot will be open to our minor league guys next spring. Whether we sign MB or not, i'm pretty sure - for better or worse - that this is going to happen.

I think the question will be whether Floyd/Gio/whoever replaces Vazquez, Contreras, or Buehrle. All would be a drop off, but I'd rather have a rookie replace Javy than Buehrle. Plus, Javy and Contreras still have trade value - so trading them could bring back more talent to the Sox.

And this doesn't even factor in the almost certainty that next years payroll is going to be smaller than this years. I can think of no scenerio where it's feasible to both re-sigh MB AND be a better overall team next year.

I think this is the big wild card that makes it impossible for us to guess what will happen. Will payroll be smaller? How much smaller? Perhaps even JR and KW do not know at this point because that all depends on how much ticket sales drop off. This actually puts the team in a tough spot - if they're going to lose MB and Dye anyway and we're out of the race, it makes most sense to trade them and grab as much talent as we can. However, if the Sox did that - the more astute fans may understand, but the masses will scream "White Flag 2" and that might further hurt ticket sales and thus payroll.

russ99

06-15-2007, 10:44 AM

Of all the scenarios, the one thing I am most certain of is that one of our current veteran starting pitchers will be gone and the 5th spot will be open to our minor league guys next spring. Whether we sign MB or not, i'm pretty sure - for better or worse - that this is going to happen.

I think the question will be whether Floyd/Gio/whoever replaces Vazquez, Contreras, or Buehrle. All would be a drop off, but I'd rather have a rookie replace Javy than Buehrle. Plus, Javy and Contreras still have trade value - so trading them could bring back more talent to the Sox.

I think this is the big wild card that makes it impossible for us to guess what will happen. Will payroll be smaller? How much smaller? Perhaps even JR and KW do not know at this point because that all depends on how much ticket sales drop off. This actually puts the team in a tough spot - if they're going to lose MB and Dye anyway and we're out of the race, it makes most sense to trade them and grab as much talent as we can. However, if the Sox did that - the more astute fans may understand, but the masses will scream "White Flag 2" and that might further hurt ticket sales and thus payroll.

I don't think the ownership/management of the Sox can blame a significant payroll decrease on the fans. They're going to sell at least 2.5-2.75 million tickets this season, despite how poorly the Sox are doing now, and ticket prices were increased. Jerry's made a bundle on this team the last 2 1/2 years.

If they do drop the payroll it will be either out of necessity (losing big contracts to FA, trading higher-payed players for inexpensive prospects or younger players) and/or out of dissatisfaction of the results from the 100+ million payroll the last 2 years.

miker

06-15-2007, 11:47 AM

When dealing with the anti-White Sox forces is this town, no matter what the organization does (even if they were to be successful in turning the ship around this year) will be taken and used against the White Sox and their fans. The sports media no longer cares about the game, its all about making a story, even if there is nothing to make one out of.

If JR and KW blow this team up, its the late 1980's all over again, without the ball park drama and threatening to move the team to Tampa/St. Pete. If JR and KW wait it out, they will be accused of not taking action. Either way it will be waved in our faces by the Cub-sucking sycophants in the media and the obnoxious fans of the NL club.

It's been a long time since we've suffered this badly...maybe this is karma for 2005?

Oh well, we have Javy "Four Quality Innings" Vasquez signed long-term. I guess that's a start...:(: