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I rather liked the orignal game other than a few things (way to easy to kill stuff, way to easy to level, game was a total joke diffculty wise, lving speed of combat able jobs was MUCH to fast you skip most of the world), and now square has gone and made it WORSE than it was. I mean how in the hell is it possible to screw up THAT bad? Seen this video and it pretty much did it for me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_N4G854ANo0&feature=g-all-u

Unless the gameplay majorly changes from now till release, I don't think i'll bother resubbing to the game again. If you check the offical ff14 forums people there are as shocked/pissed off as I am. I was actually looking forward to it, but a better ui and prettier graphics won't be enough for me, I was hoping the gameplay would get better but insted they sort of went backwards. The combat in the orignal game was already piss easy, and now it has been made even easier since you now start fights with full tp, well it'll prob be the same as it was for mages, but for anything that has tp based special attacks the game has just become even more of a total joke.

I need to ask how the hell does square screw up this badly? you think they would know better, what with all the wow-clone mmos crashing and burning lately. The game already had a bad reputation, but at least it wasn't called a generic wow clone.. sadly, now thats what the game seems to be, just the newest generic wow clone.

I'll keep checking to see if it changes for the better but to me the most important thing is a mmo is gameplay, and ff14 has somehow managed to have gone backwards on that aspect with the current changes from what I seen so far. I dunno I am just tired of every mmo thinking that copying wow is the way to go lately.

Our only shining hope is the fact this is a alpha video and hopefulyl square is smart enough to listen to their testers/fans this time, and change things, the whole reason ff14 flopedd orignally is because they totally ignored their beta testers and released the game, many testers posted on the beta forums about the gameplay mechanics and their issues and were totally ignored. Thus the game launched and did horribly due to the dev team not listening, then they patched it and changed alot of the aspects of the game and it got alot better, but it was too little too late, the damage was done. I am just completly taken aback at how they could have actually managed to have gone backwards with the game in terms of gameplay.

Also P.S. I find it halarious how comments are disabled on that youtube video, because we all know people would just call it a wow clone since thats bascally what it might become. This is not meant to be a troll post because I actually enjoyed the game when I played it like less than a year ago. I am just extremly worried about what I am seeing/hearing/reading.

Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

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Every MMO that game out after World of Warcraft can be called a World of Warcraft clone. I watched the video and compared with the old FFXIV it's alot better. From the post you made it looks like your after something like the old FFXI, and them days are dead.

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Originally posted by xausEvery MMO that game out after World of Warcraft can be called a World of Warcraft clone. I watched the video and compared with the old FFXIV it's alot better. From the post you made it looks like your after the old FFXI, and them days are dead.

I know *teardrop* those were good times back then. I had ff11 way back when it first came out in north america, good times. I guess I can give it a chance hopefully they can have a free trial I can take a crack at first.

Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

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Funny how different viewpoints work. That gameplay video turned you off of the game, and it actually had the opposite effect for me, in that I'm now more psyched than ever. I love the atmosphere overall, the quests seem like they'll be well done (although bland at times) from this. The combat seems like it could be a little faster, however. The caster in general seemed to not do a ton of damage to those Hoglets, constantly got interrupted mid-cast, and the spells weren't overly exciting to watch. Dragoon seems a bit more exciting to watch, but I expected to be able to fight multiple enemies a little easier rather than just the usual fighting one while doing a bit of AoE damage on occasion, then having to switch to the other one.

I also noticed that they kept in the repairing by crafters, as on the Fang Earrings or whatever, it said to repair you need Goldsmith Lvl. 4. Looks like crafting is gonna be much more useful than many other games, but I may just be jumping the gun. :p

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Originally posted by Aviggin

Funny how different viewpoints work. That gameplay video turned you off of the game, and it actually had the opposite effect for me, in that I'm now more psyched than ever. I love the atmosphere overall, the quests seem like they'll be well done (although bland at times) from this. The combat seems like it could be a little faster, however. The caster in general seemed to not do a ton of damage to those Hoglets, constantly got interrupted mid-cast, and the spells weren't overly exciting to watch. Dragoon seems a bit more exciting to watch, but I expected to be able to fight multiple enemies a little easier rather than just the usual fighting one while doing a bit of AoE damage on occasion, then having to switch to the other one.

I also noticed that they kept in the repairing by crafters, as on the Fang Earrings or whatever, it said to repair you need Goldsmith Lvl. 4. Looks like crafting is gonna be much more useful than many other games, but I may just be jumping the gun. :p

All in all, I'm really looking forward to this game.

I watched more of the vid and seen that lv 15 lancer lose over half his hp to 2 lv 11 monsters. If the final game is like that, it might be good cuz the enemies in ff14 when i played were complete pushovers due to their very low hp. He would probally have died if it was a pair of lv 13 or 14 monsters.

Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

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Originally posted by Aviggin

Funny how different viewpoints work. That gameplay video turned you off of the game, and it actually had the opposite effect for me, in that I'm now more psyched than ever. I love the atmosphere overall, the quests seem like they'll be well done (although bland at times) from this. The combat seems like it could be a little faster, however. The caster in general seemed to not do a ton of damage to those Hoglets, constantly got interrupted mid-cast, and the spells weren't overly exciting to watch. Dragoon seems a bit more exciting to watch, but I expected to be able to fight multiple enemies a little easier rather than just the usual fighting one while doing a bit of AoE damage on occasion, then having to switch to the other one.

I also noticed that they kept in the repairing by crafters, as on the Fang Earrings or whatever, it said to repair you need Goldsmith Lvl. 4. Looks like crafting is gonna be much more useful than many other games, but I may just be jumping the gun. :p

All in all, I'm really looking forward to this game.

Indeed! Game seems to look and play alot better than 1.0. Hopefully they will release footage of Summoner at least and perhaps Blue Mage(wishful thinking).

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Originally posted by Siveria

Originally posted by Aviggin

Funny how different viewpoints work. That gameplay video turned you off of the game, and it actually had the opposite effect for me, in that I'm now more psyched than ever. I love the atmosphere overall, the quests seem like they'll be well done (although bland at times) from this. The combat seems like it could be a little faster, however. The caster in general seemed to not do a ton of damage to those Hoglets, constantly got interrupted mid-cast, and the spells weren't overly exciting to watch. Dragoon seems a bit more exciting to watch, but I expected to be able to fight multiple enemies a little easier rather than just the usual fighting one while doing a bit of AoE damage on occasion, then having to switch to the other one.

I also noticed that they kept in the repairing by crafters, as on the Fang Earrings or whatever, it said to repair you need Goldsmith Lvl. 4. Looks like crafting is gonna be much more useful than many other games, but I may just be jumping the gun. :p

All in all, I'm really looking forward to this game.

I watched more of the vid and seen that lv 15 lancer lose over half his hp to 2 lv 11 monsters. If the final game is like that, it might be good cuz the enemies in ff14 when i played were complete pushovers due to their very low hp. He would probally have died if it was a pair of lv 13 or 14 monsters.

Yeah, I really don't mind it taking a bit of time and making grouping shorten things so people may not thinking of soloing as the "best" option all the time.

I just sorta remember it being advertised that you'll be fighting multiple monsters a lot, and the game was designed around it. Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong game. lol

Still, it's in no way a deal breaker, and is likely a better option in the end.

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Originally posted by VaultFairy

Originally posted by Aviggin

Funny how different viewpoints work. That gameplay video turned you off of the game, and it actually had the opposite effect for me, in that I'm now more psyched than ever. I love the atmosphere overall, the quests seem like they'll be well done (although bland at times) from this. The combat seems like it could be a little faster, however. The caster in general seemed to not do a ton of damage to those Hoglets, constantly got interrupted mid-cast, and the spells weren't overly exciting to watch. Dragoon seems a bit more exciting to watch, but I expected to be able to fight multiple enemies a little easier rather than just the usual fighting one while doing a bit of AoE damage on occasion, then having to switch to the other one.

I also noticed that they kept in the repairing by crafters, as on the Fang Earrings or whatever, it said to repair you need Goldsmith Lvl. 4. Looks like crafting is gonna be much more useful than many other games, but I may just be jumping the gun. :p

All in all, I'm really looking forward to this game.

Indeed! Game seems to look and play alot better than 1.0. Hopefully they will release footage of Summoner at least and perhaps Blue Mage(wishful thinking).

Yeah, I wouldn't mind a look at the Summoner myself. Was pretty damn fun in FFXI, and I wonder how many summons will be available and how they'll play...

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is the.combat the same as wow? what about story? is the party system wow or ffxi ? is the class / job system ffxi or wow ? is the crafting and gathering wow or FF? other then gaining exp for quests in really finding it hard to say this is a WoW clone . It no way is like wow maybe instances raids and exp questing

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Originally posted by Siveria

Originally posted by xausEvery MMO that game out after World of Warcraft can be called a World of Warcraft clone. I watched the video and compared with the old FFXIV it's alot better. From the post you made it looks like your after the old FFXI, and them days are dead.

I know *teardrop* those were good times back then. I had ff11 way back when it first came out in north america, good times. I guess I can give it a chance hopefully they can have a free trial I can take a crack at first.

And why is XI dead? Its still going. XIV won't change that. Everquest II didn't kill Everquest and they are both still going with content updates too. As for XI, it also has a new expansion coming out. You can always go back, its still there for you :)

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Originally posted by Aviggin

Originally posted by Siveria

Originally posted by Aviggin

Funny how different viewpoints work. That gameplay video turned you off of the game, and it actually had the opposite effect for me, in that I'm now more psyched than ever. I love the atmosphere overall, the quests seem like they'll be well done (although bland at times) from this. The combat seems like it could be a little faster, however. The caster in general seemed to not do a ton of damage to those Hoglets, constantly got interrupted mid-cast, and the spells weren't overly exciting to watch. Dragoon seems a bit more exciting to watch, but I expected to be able to fight multiple enemies a little easier rather than just the usual fighting one while doing a bit of AoE damage on occasion, then having to switch to the other one.

I also noticed that they kept in the repairing by crafters, as on the Fang Earrings or whatever, it said to repair you need Goldsmith Lvl. 4. Looks like crafting is gonna be much more useful than many other games, but I may just be jumping the gun. :p

All in all, I'm really looking forward to this game.

I watched more of the vid and seen that lv 15 lancer lose over half his hp to 2 lv 11 monsters. If the final game is like that, it might be good cuz the enemies in ff14 when i played were complete pushovers due to their very low hp. He would probally have died if it was a pair of lv 13 or 14 monsters.

Yeah, I really don't mind it taking a bit of time and making grouping shorten things so people may not thinking of soloing as the "best" option all the time.

I just sorta remember it being advertised that you'll be fighting multiple monsters a lot, and the game was designed around it. Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong game. lol

Still, it's in no way a deal breaker, and is likely a better option in the end.

The bigger the party size the more mobs will link on the initial pull, in a full party you can sometimes pull 3 or 4 mobs at once, this is normal, you'll hit one and 2-3 others will get a ! too saying they aggroed as well. Sadly alot of the tanks I have seen when I played had no damned clue what they were doing, but its generally better to spread out the aggro a bit anyway, around the melee dd/tank jobs. If your solo you might get up to 1 link depending on what they con to you, if they are a lv or few below you, usually 2 would come at you insted of just the one you hit, it kept it intersting, because it wasn;t guarnteed you'd always get 2. But from what I see in ARR monsters were made stronger, because in 1.0 2 mobs 4 levels lower than me would barely have been able to touch me, yet in one alpha video 2 lv 11 mobs did over half hp to a lv 15 char, so thankfully the mobs aren't total cakewalks now.

Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

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Originally posted by dreamsofwar

Originally posted by Siveria

Originally posted by xausEvery MMO that game out after World of Warcraft can be called a World of Warcraft clone. I watched the video and compared with the old FFXIV it's alot better. From the post you made it looks like your after the old FFXI, and them days are dead.

I know *teardrop* those were good times back then. I had ff11 way back when it first came out in north america, good times. I guess I can give it a chance hopefully they can have a free trial I can take a crack at first.

And why is XI dead? Its still going. XIV won't change that. Everquest II didn't kill Everquest and they are both still going with content updates too. As for XI, it also has a new expansion coming out. You can always go back, its still there for you :)

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Originally posted by DarknessReignis the.combat the same as wow? what about story? is the party system wow or ffxi ? is the class / job system ffxi or wow ? is the crafting and gathering wow or FF? other then gaining exp for quests in really finding it hard to say this is a WoW clone . It no way is like wow maybe instances raids and exp questing

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Didnt touch FF XIV due to the amount of issues I heard with it. As a FF fan since 1987, and viewing that video in the topic -- I am definitely excited to check this out.

I just hope there is more to the game than just (linear?) questing? If they add other systems to give the game some 'life' I might stay longer than 1 month.

But MMO's track reocord isnt promising....

Bear in mind that XIV has you level all classes/jobs on one character and that the questing won't cover more than a few of them. It works the same as XI did; once a quest is done, it's done, regardless of if you switch jobs. It will actually be impossible to use questing as your entire means of progression after the first few jobs.

We also already know of a fair few systems to give the game variety from housing to chocobo raising and the eventual golden saucer (which will be post-launch). Suffice to say there is a LOT on offer in ARR besides the usual one-dimensional levelling grind.

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Originally posted by Siveria

I rather liked the orignal game other than a few things

Most people didn't.

That is rather an important factor in this issue. I apologise if I am reading you wrong and you are not a member of the "1.0 is right and every other game is wrong!" crowd, but none-the-less I feel the need to get a few things of my chest.

(way to easy to kill stuff, way to easy to level, game was a total joke diffculty wise,

That may be for those that got into it, but it was very hard for everyone else, having to fight the nightmare UI, controls, server lag, combat mechanics, world layout, lack of engine optimisation and quest system on top of all the mobs.

lving speed of combat able jobs was MUCH to fast you skip most of the world),

At this point I thought you were being satirical, it was a tedious grind that never ended, and skipping the world? What world? Empty, copy and pasted and therefore uniform, server stressing boredom zones isn’t a world. Why do you think they are going to the expense of completely re-designing them?

and now square has gone and made it WORSE than it was. I mean how in the hell is it possible to screw up THAT bad? Seen this video and it pretty much did it for me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_N4G854ANo0&feature=g-all-u

Seen these? You do know this is basic demo footage of one feature from an ALPHA right? have you seen alpha footage of FFXIV 1.0? (few have and lived to tell the tale, after they died laughing) Seriously, this is just basic combat and questing, industry standard, to ease players who arent part of the FFXIV 1.0 cult of "Tanaka the Martyr".

Unless the gameplay majorly changes from now till release, I don't think i'll bother resubbing to the game again.

They can't afford to pursue subs from players like you, there aren’t enough who like the asinine design philosophy of 1.0, (how weird is that right?) that’s the whole point of re-booting the game, and a large franchise requires mainstream appeal. This isn’t an indie project aiming for a niche player base.

If you check the offical ff14 forums people there are as shocked/pissed off as I am.

Yes I know, and also a bunch of people pointed out what a bunch of elitist cry babies they are. (you should hear what they say about them on the Alpha forums)

I was actually looking forward to it,

What where you looking forward to exactly? Everything we saw was what Yoshida said would be there over a year ago.

but a better ui and prettier graphics won't be enough for me,

Its not about prettier graphics, the previous engine was crap and wouldnt run on a PS3

I was hoping the gameplay would get better but insted they sort of went backwards.

How is going for more fluid real-time combat backwards from a jarring turn-based camera and NPC/PC lock? Backward would be going into a separate, fixed camera screen after hitting a random invisible spawn, into a turn based, side view to cheesy synth-rock and dramatic camera pans during combat animations. Heck, that sounds more fun and at least would fully exploit turn based strategy better than this half-arsed nonsense.

FFXIV 1.0s combat wasn't just backwards, it was slow and lacked immersion as all you did was trigger combat animations, not actually fight yourself.

The combat in the orignal game was already piss easy, and now it has been made even easier since you now start fights with full tp, well it'll prob be the same as it was for mages, but for anything that has tp based special attacks the game has just become even more of a total joke.

All you saw was a couple of low lvl battles against mobs lower than the player, how can you make such an evaluation? Especially as you seem to think 1.0 was too easy already? what is your point of reference? Why not just play Dark Souls if everything is too carebear for you?

I need to ask how the hell does square screw up this badly?

All they've screwed up so far is their gameplay trailers. I agree that this is not well presented, but this trailer is not the entire game at launch.

you think they would know better, what with all the wow-clone mmos crashing and burning lately.

Yes, I am sure they know this, so perhaps it isn't going to be a WoW clone just have the standard elements that a overwhelming majority of people that abandoned the game at launch asked for? Maybe they know what they are doing and it is too soon to jump on the WoW-clone band wagon over a couple of mins of alpha footage? Maybe?

The game already had a bad reputation, but at least it wasn't called a generic wow clone..

No, it was just the worst mmo ever made, a truly original disaster that cost 10s of millions of dollars, 1 veteran dev his reputation and that of a leading game franchise and its publisher, and required more people to fix it than made it originally.

I can’t go into details without breaking the NDA, but Yoshida has managed to make a far, far better engine in less than 2 years than “Tanaka the visionary” managed to in 5. That, due to a vastly better server, UI, npc interaction and quest system you can now appreciate the fundamental parts of the game such as the armoury, crafting and lore that where hidden under the most counter-intuitive design I have seen in 30 yrs of computer gaming.

sadly, now thats what the game seems to be, just the newest generic wow clone.

That bandwagon must be made of chocolate or something...

I'll keep checking to see if it changes for the better but to me the most important thing is a mmo is gameplay,

Well, at least we agree of something.

and ff14 has somehow managed to have gone backwards on that aspect with the current changes from what I seen so far.

Backwards from endless leve grinding? sub-titled cutscenes and constant back-tracking across a sprawling empty world? The Link pearl system????? You think FFXIV 1.0 was a step forward from WoW????

I dunno I am just tired of every mmo thinking that copying wow is the way to go lately.

There is a reason people copy it (and no one will ever copy FFXIV 1.0) apart from laziness, it’s a good design, now many parts can, and should be ignored, but try to re-invent the UI, combat, world and town layout, npc interaction, basic movement etc with no knowledge of what has already been shown to work and you alienate all but the most "unique" tastes.

ARR is not going for just a WoW friendly audience, they have stated many times that there are still features from 1.0 such as leves, crafting, armory, etc remaining, and other parts from FFXI and previous FF games now. All they did was change from leves/behests only to a few quest hubs that you only get to see with your first few classes and combat that doesnt put you in a coma.

Our only shining hope is the fact this is a alpha video and hopefulyl square is smart enough to listen to their testers/fans this time, and change things,

They are listening to everyone, the changes from alpha to beta will be extensive, but they are not going to remove user friendly and standard features because of it reminds some people of WoW, (what a shock) or, based on some posts I've read, whiny elitists stuck in the past.

the whole reason ff14 flopedd orignally is because they totally ignored their beta testers and released the game,

Not quite true. By the time FFXIV 1.0 was in beta it was too late, Tanaka was an arrogant fossil that built the entire game from the very start on the wrong engine designed to run cut-scenes, not render multiple players in the same area, dooming expansions, the PS3 release and any hope of getting people with cheaper PCs to play.

The server code was impossible to work with right to the end, hence the issues with the server shut down event. None of the devs could process so many complaints and demands for features known to work in other mmos as none of them knew of any other mmos. Nothing but a complete scrapping of the game and dev team would have worked in the long run, the testers where wasting their time.

Thus the game launched and did horribly due to the dev team not listening,

Again, what could they have done? You cant patch away the wrong engine or server tech. Even if they had tried to implement every request, it would have delayed launch by at least a year, and been pointless anyway with no sound foundation.

then they patched it and changed alot of the aspects of the game and it got alot better,

Not when I played it, engine, server, UI, combat, npc interaction, quests, still shite. Yoshida did add some thing for mid to high lvl players, but if you couldnt get past the flaws they didnt change anything. That's why they didnt bother to get new players in, just keep the old ones sweet. ARR is designed to appeal to those not already in, i.e. not you. Most of the early content won't apply to you anyway.

I am just completly taken aback at how they could have actually managed to have gone backwards with the game in terms of gameplay.

Again I don't get this phrase "backwards" 1.0 wasn’t like anything I have ever played, it wasn’t an improvement on WoW or any FF game before. FF7 or 8 had better UI and combat. As did the earlier Square Soft games like Secret of Mana or Chrono Trigger. How is a game built with no knowledge of mmo industry standards, not even of the most well known mmo somehow ahead anything? If this was the case why did it get a unanimous panning from the critics? Is everyone outside the small 1.0 appreciation society missing something?

Also P.S. I find it halarious how comments are disabled on that youtube video, because we all know people would just call it a wow clone since thats bascally what it might become.

Comments are disabled on all SquareEnix YouTube videos, it's standard company policy.

this is not meant to be a troll post because I actually enjoyed the game when I played it like less than a year ago.

That doesn’t make you a troll; it simply damaged the credibility of your taste in games.

I am just extremly worried about what I am seeing/hearing/reading.

Even though it was what everyone asked for from the start, and what Yoshida always promised?

The problem is that a lot of those that decry the current changes do not want 1.0 to go away, cannot see the flaws, know very little of other mmos outside of FFXI, and therefore do not know what XIV was/is missing, and react to anything that is remotely like WoW as a unholy blasphemy against their dark Gods of shitty game design. (I am not saying you are one of them, not knowing your gaming background, but their mentality means many criticisms of ARR cannot be taken seriously).

I’ve been reading posts from the old guard with growing disbelief, and one question keeps popping into my mind.

Are these types of 1.0 fans on crack?

I’ve seen posts on the Alpha forums defending the inventory’s list system. THE LIST SYSTEM!? What are they? Anal retentive librarians from the 50s?

Are they really so out of touch that they don't realize how their preferences will kill not only XIV, but possibly the FF franchise and even SE if they had their way? They are the pitiful few that remained when everyone else on the planet took a whiff of Tanaka’s turd, and threw up. We'll be lucky to get even half of them back, and who can blame them?

I am very glad there are plenty of people on this and the offical and alpha forums that argue against this mentality so well.

It is the height of irresponsibility for any competitive company in the 21st century to produce a product with only a previous version from a decade ago as a model (and to even neglect many good elements of that), and no knowledge of any alternative to go on.

I thought the image of out of touch fossils defending 1.0 was a stereotype, to see it for myself makes me thank Yu Yevon that we live in a democracy, and the worst they can do is waste their vote on the 3rd party candidate who wants to bring back stoning and a leech based medical plan.

This issue isn't a matter of opinion, but consensus, standards, extensive comparisons and an avalanche of well written critiques over the last 2 yrs, though not everyone likes all aspects of WoW, no one (sane) likes counter-intuitive, clumsy, ugly and tedious time-vampires.

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Besides the horrible UI and bad engine/server tech 1.0 had, I agree. I actually liked the retainer system of 1.0 (reminds me of Mabinogi and Ultima Online vendor shopping, two games I'm currently playing on and off). I liked the stamina gauge for battles that existed before Yoshi-P took over. I liked the no required levels for gear, but rather suggested levels that scale the gear based on it and your current level. I liked how you had to get other players (or yourself if you've leveled a crafting class) to repair your gear as they could repair fully rather than the 25% NPC's could before it was changed. And I liked the multiple steps to craft a piece of gear.

I have the XIV collectors edition, the XIV licensed gamepad, and a legacy account - I didn't unsub until after Yoshi-P took over and started changing things, as it began molding the game into something I didn't buy originally. I checked in a few times afterwards, staying for a few days of my subscription and eventually leaving. He added some nice things, like the Materia system, but it seemed all the defining features the game had (whether they were to your liking or not is a different story) and replaced with the same ones you can find in a good majority of MMO's.

I'm going to play 2.0 at launch because of the free month offered, but judging by initial impressions from released videos and answers gave by Yoshi-P in interviews I won't be playing long term.