October 22, 2010

Apologize? You can't just apologize unless Williams could just apologize. NPR CEO Vivian Schiller must resign.

Schiller spills 'er guts:

And don't you just love the notion that ordinary human feelings are mental disorders that should be kept hidden? In NPR's delightful vision of the future, no one will dare to speak about how they feel and every inappropriate twinge that breaks through your self-protective numbness will be medicalized and treated. Imagine a country that adopts a psychiatric treatment model for political dissent. It's easy if you try.

No no. Human thoughts and feelings don't become mental disorders until they deviate from the Orthodox Leftist Catechism of Acceptable Views. Should such deviation occur in human beings with white skin, shunning and insults are all that is required. However, when they occur in a human being whose skin is black, a need for psychiatric care and immediate termination of employment is indicated.

"Abusive practices of all sorts, arising from ignorance, neglect, poverty, demoralization, exhaustion, cruelty or criminality, have always haunted psychiatry. This contribution is concerned with one specific abuse only: its use as a means of ‘neutralizing’ healthy people who are regarded as a threat to the existing political system, by admission to a psychiatric hospital, thus damaging their power and reputation. This abuse has occurred in two large countries, the Soviet Union and China, both under totalitarian rule, where public dissent was disapproved and often punished, though in other respects they are different."

Of all the revelations about the inner workings of NPR emerging from this kerfuffle, I think one of the most entertaining is that the CEO of one of the best-known media organs for the nation's self-described intellectual elite does not know the difference between "principal" and "principle." Just a typo? Maybe -- but an enlightening one.

Suddenly NPR is setting up reeducation camps? That's almost as laughable as the idea sharia is taking over the US.

Outright bigotry *should* be kept hidden. Inappropriate generalizations about billions of people should be suppressed. And when you utter them, and catch yourself doing so, you shouldn't then go on to justify them, promoting the assertion of a jihadist that America is in a war with Muslisms as a "fact".

"But as recently as 2003, a joint study by the National Institute of Mental Health and the National Science Foundation (at a public cost of $1.2 million) postulated that adherents to conventional moral principles and limited government are actually mentally disturbed. The study correlated morality and individualism with “dogmatism” and “uncertainty avoidance,” leading to “lowered self-esteem, fear, anger, pessimism, disgust, and contempt”

jsled: Outright bigotry *should* be kept hidden. Inappropriate generalizations about billions of people should be suppressed. And when you utter them, and catch yourself doing so, you shouldn't then go on to justify them, promoting the assertion of a jihadist that America is in a war with Muslisms as a "fact".

Another Libtard who swallows whatever his information brokers feed him.

Clue: Williams was saying that, despite his own emotional fears, he thinks its wrong to tar all muslims with the same brush. He was making the same point you just did.

That garage, 1jpb, et al, AREN'T troubled by her call for Juan Williams to see a psychiatrist for the thoughtcrime of actually SAYING OUT LOUD what most people are actually thinking is telling in the extreme.

All he said was he felt nervous - you know like Jesse Jackson did. But I don't seem to recall any calls for Jackson to see a psychiatrist for repeating his own fear of HIS OWN RACE.

But Williams stepped off the Leftist plantation, and for that garage, 1jpb, et al., simply KNOW that he must be punished.

Like I've always said: beneath the surface of EVERY Leftist lies a nascent totalitarian.

I realize there are broader reasons to look at this incident and the obvious hypocrisy that envelopes NPR, but mostly people like Nina Totenberg has so fallen out of significance to me and the vast majority of Americans that there is nothing important here.

The current thinking on tolerance is not that you are free to have your own ugly opinions as long as you don't act on them.You are not supposed to have your ugly opinions at all.

And we'll tell you what's ugly.So far this week, we've learned that admitting you have an irrational fear of people in muslim garb on airplanes is unacceptable.And saying homosexuality might be a choice is unacceptable.

Actually treating people well isn't enough anymore. Think about them the way you are supposed to, psycho.

The current thinking on tolerance is not that you are free to have your own ugly opinions as long as you don't act on them.You are not supposed to have your ugly opinions at all.

And we'll tell you what's ugly.So far this week, we've learned that admitting you have an irrational fear of people in muslim garb on airplanes is unacceptable.And saying homosexuality might be a choice is unacceptable.

No kidding. We learned in May that saying Ashkenazic Jews should go back to Europe was unacceptable.

So there was Rick Sanchez, saying something stupid and getting fired for it. And no one here defended him.

Now, you have Juan Williams, saying something stupid and getting fired. Here's the difference: most people here, including the blog master, share in his stupidity. You AGREE with what he said. You REVEL in your ignorance and bigotry.

We are not at war with the Muslims. When you promote that idea, you are actually helping the people who we are fighting. Simple as that. You are not only an ignorant bigot, you are undermining the war effort.

We are not at war with the Muslims. When you promote that idea, you are actually helping the people who we are fighting. Simple as that. You are not only an ignorant bigot, you are undermining the war effort.

Juan Williams was not saying he thinks we are at war with Muslims. He was saying a guy who was just given a life sentence for attempting to bomb Times Square said we are at war with Muslims.

I herewith refudiate remarks I made in a recent thread about the fairness of NPR news. I stand by my remarks defending Mara Liasson though, who is herself the target of a lefty witch hunt

Those on the left no longer merely show their disapproval of thought crime with clucking tongues-- they take action. We need to fight back by defunding NPR, and along with that, make them remove the "N" and the "P" from their name.

Montagne Montaigne said...we should make all blacks go through special screening anyway. ...anyone sort of brown should be submitted for additional screening. There should be a whites-only line - @ 10:41AM, 10-21-10

While she's at it, she can apologize to everybody else who feels the same level of nervousness that Williams feels when they are boarding a plane along with "people who are in Muslim garb." If he's crazy, then I guess they are too.

And that's got to be something like 70% - 80% of the adult population of the United State.

Don't know if this has been posted. It's from Michael Barone via Instapundit:

"An interesting contrast: many NPR listeners apparently could not stomach that Williams also appeared on Fox News. But it doesn’t seem that any perceptible number of Fox News viewers had any complaints that Williams also worked for NPR."

More that I like saying the word "Juan" emphasizing and pronouncing the JU part by holding it like 10 seconds before I say the AN part.

It makes me feel one with the peeps and lets them know I feel their pain.

Similar, when in India I let all Punis I meet that I loved Monsoon Wedding-just so they know I empathize with their plight and am turned on to their culture-and other shit like that.

That's just the kind of caring, warm person I am.

Mary, I am not happy with my cut and color-$130? Hello, my hair is like an inch long. I had it done for 90-100 in Boston and the place was fab. Next time it is ChaCha's-where I would love to answer the phone just for a day or Thorpes. I think she was just taking advantage of me because she knew I was a big city fag and was accustomed to paying big city prices.

We are not at war with the Muslims. When you promote that idea, you are actually helping the people who we are fighting. Simple as that. You are not only an ignorant bigot, you are undermining the war effort.

We're not?? Show us all these "good Moslems" that stand up against the crazies, not unlike all the "good Germans" who told us after the war how they opposed Hitler?

Considering some of the things Montagne says about anybody who strays off the reservation, he's the last one to use the word, bigot.

If I worked at ChaCha's hair salon as the receptionist for a day I would demand that I be able to write my own phone answering script. Each call received would be a new script.

During my salutation I would emphasize compassion and caring with strong listening skills. But I would also convey just a slight tude and a thorough knowledge of problem hair issues clients maybe going through. I would develop "level 2" calls for those hard to manage hair problems natch. I would also require that I have studied the color chart and make strong recommendations as to where the client should land on the color wheel.

All calls would be answered after two rings and no caller would be put on hold for over 30 seconds. In order to force this policy I would have an egg timer right next to the phone.

My focus would be on just phone calls and not face to face customer service as I believe it is important that each role be separated in order to achieve excellent customer service. I would write the job description for the face to face receptionist as well so that the communication on the phone call was communicated back to the face to face receptionist so that employee has full knowledge of each specific hair care case when it enters the door. Both myself and the face to face recep. would be considered "Thought Leaders" that are working from the same script. I would also apply Six Sigma shit, natch.

We are not at war with the Muslims. When you promote that idea, you are actually helping the people who we are fighting. Simple as that. You are not only an ignorant bigot, you are undermining the war effort.

Of course we are not at war with Muslims. We are at war with Fox News and Rush Limbaugh. Also Tea Partiers and people who cling to their guns and their religion. Unless that religion is Islam. Than we are not at war with them.

But Williams stepped off the Leftist plantation, and for that garage, 1jpb, et al., simply KNOW that he must be punished.

I don't think Williams should have been fired. especially when his remarks are taken into context. Just noting the Poutrage of the day though. Seriously I don't know how you guys make it through the day though. The smallest occurrence somehow always turns into Hitler marching into Poland.

Yada, yada, yada. There are always reasons given why the new boss eliminates underlings in an organisation. Really it is designed to show everyone who is boss now. No one is safe at NPR foe a season. (Like the loyal Politboro Members were never safe while Stalin ruled). Anyone who appears capable of independent thought is a threat to a paranoid leader. And we in the South learned from the days when we had to oversee groups of slaves that the trick to control them by inducing fear is not punishing a wrongdoer...it is punishing an innocent man. Now that shows power!

Once they have been returned, preferably before the client leaves, they would be studied.

They would be taken seriously, there may be follow email/voicemail and written letters to each client knowing that we care about their input.

Also, recommendations would be made based of evals in order to better serve our clients and let them know "action has been taken".

Also, 30 day feedbacks would be sent out by email/text or personal call in order to see how the hair is doing. This is a critical point because as we all know hair tends to have a mind of it's own when it leaves the salon and what is most important is that the hair cut/color/style/extensions etc. is holding up through time as well as weather elements, including Climate Change if our client believes in it.

We are witnessing the death of the American Left. They are howling like banshees as they go down. It happens quickly in a free society, thank goodness. NPR is destroying itself, just like the Democratic Party.

Isn't the prescience of 1984 amazing, almost surreal? The Left is compelled by their own delusion to view dissidents as either evil, stupid or crazy, depending on the group identity of the offender. Winston Smith is Outer Party, therefore his resistance must result from insanity. Insanity can be healed after long and painful therapy. A mere prole is considered too stupid to appreciate the beneficence of Big Brother, hence his prole status. The slightest hint of dissent earns a prole a permanent labor camp vacation. Stupid is forever. Dissenters on the same social plane as the Inner Party members are too exalted to be either stupid or crazy, thus they must be evil minions of Goldsteinism who must be destroyed.

All of the great socialist paradises have followed Orwell's vision like a blueprint, thus we shouldn't be surprised at NPR's action against Juan Williams, an Outer Party functionary (formerly of the Outer Party, one would hope) who has strayed from the doctrine. As a member of a protected group he can't be stupid, this is a diagnostic reserved for middle-class whites without Harvard or Columbia degrees. He doesn't have the status of an O'Reilly or a Limbaugh, thus he can't be evil. Therefore he's crazy.

Do get your hands on a copy of Why Orwell Matters by Christopher Hitchens (aka Emmanuel Goldstein). It's an eye-opener.

Titus and The Angry Inch-that's hilarious. I did LOL and I don't think I have ever written that term before. I feel so new technology...or is that old?

Girl, not angry-just not completely satisfied.

Hello, I am in Madison and am not having any sex so really I don't care that much how I look.

I am gulp though....doing some volunteering. I am taking tickets at some benefit thing tomorrow and some other shit. I have never volunteered for anything. I am nervous. I have to wear all black, I am like bitch you should be happy I am contributing (for free-such an ugly word) and you expect me to wear a uniform? Oh well, I will give it a shot.

@Titus Why would the shortness of your hair affect the price. It's still the same number of hairs. It's actually easier to cut long hair. The mistakes don't show as much and if it's blunt cut, all the hairs curve around and meet at the bottom to be cut straight across.

What gets me is that I have minimal public speaking or public relaions experience but know much better what not to say than these bozos such as Schiller. I guess their egos put themselves above the rule of law or ordinary civility. Plus, they're much less likely to get fired by a biased, impulsive egotist.

" Montagne Montaigne said... We are not at war with the Muslims. When you promote that idea, you are actually helping the people who we are fighting. Simple as that. You are not only an ignorant bigot, you are undermining the war effort."

It's really quite difficult to unwrap the errors in this comment. Williams never claimed we are or should be at war with Muslims generally. He specifically states the opposite, so you have to wonder why anyone would make such an absurd statement.

Is it venality? Does he understand he is wrong but cannot resist the opportunity to call those he disagrees with bigots? Is it error? Has he assumed everyone questioning terrorism believes we should be at war with Muslims and didn't pay attention to facts? Is it ignorance? Has he simply listened to this accusation made without understanding the argumentative requirements, and so does not recognize they are missing?

Regardless, by the time your reach the conclusion that Williams is a bigot and helping the enemy you have to realize conclusions based on errant assertions carry no weight at all.

The only interesting part of this comment is the tone. Someone who assumes such an air of superiority while spouting nonsence is just comical.

MM;Sanchez's quote:"Yeah, very powerless people. [laughs] He's such a minority. I mean, you know, please. What—are you kidding? I'm telling you that everybody who runs CNN is a lot like Stewart, and a lot of people who run all the other networks are a lot like Stewart. And to imply that somehow they, the people in this country who are Jewish, are an oppressed minority?"

I know you're smart enough to see the difference. Now if Sanchez had suggested he wondered about the bias of a Jewish commentator when discussing Israeli politics and then in follow up stated he recognized clearly that in spite of those feelings that many Jewish commentators could opine on Israel objectively that might be a better analogy.

What's distressing about the whole NPR/Williams kerfuffle is that Williams expressed a basic human emotion (fear) based on the many images and stories in the news AND THEN discussed how one needs to see beyond those instincts. Isn't that a very ENLIGHTENED statement. Isn't that the Shirley Sherrod message?

And finally, my hunch would be that if he had said it while commenting at NPR it would have been wholly acceptable.

For example, if a client is a strong believer in climate change, that would be noted in his/her/it's pfile.

I order to "appear" to care about that clients climate change cause a question would be asked something like, "how it your hair reacting to the severe and crippling climate change we are receiving at this most volatile place in our precious Earth's "green" and eco-sensitive time?"

Key words like "perilous" and "end of world" and "Greenland" and "Al Gore would be used for this specific client in the text in order to show our salon's "compassion", "free range" "organic", "vegan" interest and pursuits.

But, beyond the metaphorical point made by Althouse's current banner, I think I read that there is a self-identified real whore running for gov of NY. So, if traditional whores move into political whoremanship, there could be a shortage for lawyering.

Well, at least we can probably stop worrying about fixing our schools if we're only going to need whores, as opposed to more science/engineering folks. The teachers unions will like that.

Well most teachers are only interested in molesting their students anyway so it be in their interest to turn out more whores. I mean have you been following the "Facebook" stories in NYC where teachers are flirting with their students and hooking up with them.

One, there was a note on the door of the outside of the building that said it has come to the attention of the manager that "piles" had been adding up in the outdoor dog area. I, as well noticed the "piles" and I appreciate the management companies use of "piles" although I would of preferred "loafs".

Second, while being a one day admin at ChaCha's I would create 360 reviews and select cross function teams to develop process improvement plans within the salon and measure those plans on a monthly basis. Also "goal setting" would be crucial.

"You are not only an ignorant bigot, you are undermining the war effort."

You mean. . .people ought to watch what they say?

Funny thing, Monty, but when a spokesman for the last administration counseled that very same advice, lefties like you and Garage screamed "Hitler marching into Poland!!! OMGZ!!! ELEVENTY!!!" so much, you'd have thought the cattle cars to Auschwitz had pulled up in front of your door. MAN, that shoe on the other foot's a bitch, ain't it?

What most don't understand is that for the left, Muslim terrorists who cut off people's heads and fly airplanes into occupied skyscrapers are a mere distraction--even if slightly dangerous. The right is THE ENEMY.

Here's the message on the NPR page that had contained Juan Williams bio. Sorry! We can't seem to find the page you were looking for. Please visit the NPR Help Center to report this page as missing, or use the links below to continue your search.

Below they have links to Amelia Earhart, Jimmy Hoffa, the 18.5 minutes of blank Watergate tape and Atlantis.

Ha, ha.

Resign? For sure. If for nothing else, extremely bad manners. Schiller was brought up in Scarsdale and went to Smith. Mind your manners, sweetie.

Doesn't it cost more product and more time to do a color for long hair than my short hamel camel?

Also, there stylists are rated 1-4 in terms of cost-how degrading-this is based from years of experience.

Years of experience should not be a basis for how a specific stylists should be "rated". Quality, feedback, following, client numbers etc. would be a better way to "rate" someone over years of experience.

I say eliminate the 1-4 rating immediately. I am all corporate and create, design and write org charts but I have to disagree with this policy at RZ.

Again, I am not anguished over my cut/color because I am not blowing my load on my hot Indian UK husbands huge sculpted arms and chest, but if he was here right now and we were doing it I would feel a little insecure over this do. I am heading back to India in January so at that gives me plenty of time to regroup.

It is possible to fire folks in a free market that does not guarantee life employment, unlike the university. So to keep it free market for all concerned, I say we eliminate government subsidies to NPR , and we eliminate the tax loop holes that support Murdoch's News Corporations: 800 subsidiaries, including some 60 incorporated tax heavens in the Cayman Island etc. Seems reasonable.

I remember getting my hair cut while I was waiting for a flight. I went into the city to find a place, because I had enough time. The receptionist let me know that the gal was fifty five.

I thought, sheesh that's kind of old, usually these haircut girls are young. But, not wanting to be agist, I said, "no problem." I was so happy when it turned out the hair gal was a fun, young type. I was happy to learn that 'fifty five' referred to the price. W/ tip I was up to seventy.

I guess I am ok with their 1-4 grades if this is an internal policy but I would recommend not publicizing it for the public.

Also, it could prove demeaning for the clients. Does every client know that poor "client 1" is getting her hair done by a 1 rather than a 4? Do clients who get their hair done by Grade 4's look down at clients who are getting their hand done by Grade 1's-that could be a dilemma and could be a cause for some serious employee/client relationship issues that need to be addressed.

Personally, if I was a client working with a Grade 4 stylist I may be tempted to snicker when the Grade 1 client works the runway. Something like "she's a grade 1 client, poor loser" may come to my mind.

And that's just sad for all even including myself because I would rather not put my self in that position because I really believe all people are created equal in God's image, except the gays.

" Montagne Montaigne said... I don't know why people get so insulted when you accurately describe their bigoted behavior as bigoted.

A pulse of fear when observing someone in foreign dress is like the textbook example of bigotry."

Consider an analogous circumstance which removes the instinctive desire of lefties to bask in their self-righteousness and accuse their opponents of bigotry.

Many business consultants recommend reducing headcount as part of their final reports. This is generally understood in the business world. Is it bigotry to experience a moment of concern when you realize a business consultant is coming to review your department, even if you understand a headcount reduction is likely not the outcome?

This instinctive assertion that everything is bigotry illustrates that lefties don't know what is or what isn't bigotry.

You know that the secreting and withholding of the information people need to make decisions IS the property owned by folks in the Information Age. So Vivian's instincts are understandable. But she needs a course in open and "transparent" management in an operation requiring public support. But she sounds here to me like a lawyer whose only training has been in keeping secrets and refusing to cooperate with Discovery requests. So she qualifies as half lawyer and have reporter...the ultimate Monster in Trooper's pantheon of monsters. Maybe she can win the Top Job at the new Death Panels too. Skill at hiding what you are really doing is the sine qua non for that job.

To be extremely politically incorrect, but I feel I can say this because I am a woman....

Schiller is a slimy c@nt. Just look at that little self satisfied smirk in the video when she mentions 'his psychiatrist'. She thinks she is slipping in the shiv and enjoying every moment of it. She is proud of her little snarky catty revenge.

She is a skanky scuzzball.

Backstabbing, vindictive, nasty woman. Thank God, I don't have to work with women or have had to spend much time around them in the workplace.

Liberals, even the men, are a bunch of evil whining vindictive pussies. Just being around them makes me want to go take a shower.

DBQ: The smirk is what got me as well. I would bet that her board has wiped that smirk off her face by now. Because they have to stir themselves to fight for funding that was pretty much in the bag before this sanctimonious woman took the mike.

If Juan Williams' comments were indicative of a mental disorder isn't that a "handicap"?

If Schiller were right, could he not sue under the Americans with Disabilities Act?

I disagree with Williams frequently but with him it is honest people having honest disagreements. I never get the feeling he wants to engage in ad hominems or restrict my rights to speech because we disagree.

I am a fan of Williams but am glad this happened. First, he is getting a pile of cash from Fox Second, I will get to see more of him on Fox and third, I think this is going to piss off enough people so that in January all funding for NPR/PBS will be cancelled.

You have a flat tire on a little-traveled road. While you read your owner's manual chapter on changing your tire, a beat-up pickup truck with rifle racks stops ahead of your car and a fat man wearing jeans, t-shirt, baseball cap and suspenders gets out with a tire iron in his hand. What is your reaction?

1. You assume that, since he obviously is the type that clings to a peace loving religion, the tire iron is evidence that he wants to help you change your tire. You are overjoyed.

2. You assume that, since most if not all such hicks are ignorant savages, you are about to be raped and murdered. You suffer trepidation to say the least.

Just as your local BP station had zip to do with the oil blowout, your local NPR outlet had zip to do with terminating Juan Williams' contract.

People in our area began boycotting Citgo when Hugo started acting like a ass a few years ago. It drove quite a few of them out of the area. That being said, the exact same owners that ran the Citgo are still there, in the same business, with a different franchise. Citgo, and PDVSA do not receive revenue from my local location and a good many of the former Citgo locations.

Thanks for dodging the question completely, FLS. And a further thanks for giving me one of the single most funny lines you've ever put out on this blog. Outrage is the only thing that drives just about every liberal I know personally and shitload that I know publically.

@former law student.I agree that WBEZ had zip to do with the decision to fire Juan Williams. However, WBEZ supports NPR by buying their programming. I have a right to end my support for those who support NPR. There's nothing ridiculous about that.

I have a feeling Ms Vivian is not long for this world in terms of her employment--and her sense of timing is delicious: middle of a fundraiser and 10 days before and election and hands the anti-democrats yet another issue--she is indeed one stupid person. she has also guaranteed Mr Williams a lucrative contract with fox who reaches far more people than does NPR--Mr Williams will be profita bly employed long after Ms vivian is on the street. The woman is as dumb as a box of rocks. Fortunately Smith college will give her an honorary degree.

O'Reilly pointed out last night on Fox that Juan W. is NPR's only African-American commentator.

O'Reilly's calling for a wholesale withdrawal of funding from NPR, since it's obviously a biased news organization that gets the majority of its funding from taxpayers, but it's viewpoint is skewed toward PC balderdash, and it in no way supports the First Amendment.

Air America tried to be a mirror image of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, etc, and it didn't work, because liberals don't delight in stoking their feelings of outrage the way conservatives do. The right-wing-translated-to-left-wing format did not appeal to liberals, who thus did not listen. Stations with formats that don't attract listeners don't attract advertisers. Stations without advertising revenue go bust.

fls: Saying homosexuality is a choice is less offensive than "Eastern European Jews should go back to Eastern Europe"?"

First, that's not what she said.She said the Jews should "Get the hell out of Palestine".She then went on to list a few places the Jews could go "back" to. Poland, Germany, and the US to name a few.

Second, telling people to "go back" to someplace their grandparents were from is offensive, but not criminal. Had Juan Williams said Muslims should "go back to the Mideast", he wouldn't be getting the support you're seeing now.

And why homosexuality being a choice (or not) is offensive is beyond me. It's only offensive if it's an argument used to keep homosexuals from being allowed to marry within their gender.

Now wait a minute! Let me get sensitive here. John Meeks, MD a lecturer in adolescent psychiatry used to suggest that the adolescent be encouraged to communicate to others, 'I feel ...' on the theory that 'feelings' basically can't be wrong. Offhand this wasn't seen as a path to medicalizing their feelings.

Garage: Juan would not likely get an invitation to ride on the Prince's airplane. And you continually bring up the point that a big investor in Fox is an Arab prince. Are you making the point that Fox is prejudiced against Muslims or the point that the Prince is directing their views on radical Islam? If you have a point it is incoherent. More probably you are personally repulsed by Arabs and Muslims and are too stupid to see your own bigotry.

"Just as your local BP station had zip to do with the oil blowout, your local NPR outlet had zip to do with terminating Juan Williams' contract."

But gasoline is a commodity that is virtually identical from location to location. If BP quit selling premium you would go elsewhere for premium. Since NPR no longer carries Juan Williams many will no longer be willing to support NPR. It is not difficult.

If we want the charge to retain its sting, as we should, we ought to use it cautiously. It needs to mean something worse than ordinary human weakness. Show me some malice. (The remarks that led to Helen Thomas's forced retirement would qualify.) If what Williams said was bigoted, then this is a nation of bigots, and the term no longer means anything.

Williams is an excellent, open-minded commentator and a great loss to NPR. I think the decision to sack him was shameful.

I note that, in general, those here (including the proprietress) who recognize that the termination of his employment was wrong and that the public representations that have been made about him are defamatory failed to see the same in the case of Shirley Sherrod, and vice versa.

I suggest you brush up on the topic, FLS. You seem to be woefully misinformed. Unlike you, I grant, but you're almost, not quite, dead wrong.

It's a proven, ratings-based fact that self-identified liberals listen to right-wing talk. Why, mileage may very, but it doesn't matter. PPM's don't lie unless you purposefully game them and even then...why would you? Air America died because, as you stated, however incorrectly, their product, with only one real exception, was horrible radio. The message was only part of it. They were awful at the technical and marketing aspects of it as well.

There are enough liberal talkers left on the air that have full phone banks of liberal callers that directly rebuke your claim that AA failed because this isn't a game liberal like to play.

I have a feeling Ms Vivian is not long for this world in terms of her employment--and her sense of timing is delicious: middle of a fundraiser and 10 days before and election and hands the anti-democrats yet another issue--she is indeed one stupid person. she has also guaranteed Mr Williams a lucrative contract with fox who reaches far more people than does NPR—

Also, Juan has apparently decided it is time to speak his mind about everything NPR ever did that pissed him off and getting fired from NPR gives him leave to do it. Which is so much fun!

Garage--I am having trouble wrapping my mind about your saudi prince thesis: it would seem to me that if Juan's comments were offensive to the Saudi prince, it would have been Fox that would have fired him--Instead it was NPR?

Now this tells me the Saudi prince is far more tolerant than the folks at NPR--What does it tell you?

Seriously--you seem to have thrown the fact that a Saudi has a share in Fox, but the Saudi did not cause mr Williams to be fired--in fact it was that bastion of liberalism, NPR--Please clarify what it is you are trying to say, because the facts of the incident are running against your analysis--unless, of course, the saudi prince thing was just a red herring.

Garage--and to extend your thesis that somehow the fact that a saudi prince owns some of Fox, one would expect Fox to be very pro-arab/palestianian and the rest of those folks--Why in the world would these saudi prince allow Dr Krauthammer to be a regular commenter (assuming he still is). Your thesis continues to look even flakier the deeper we drill down.

Now this tells me the Saudi prince is far more tolerant than the folks at NPR--What does it tell you?

It tells me all the muslim fear mongering at Fox is a bunch of bullshit. I suspect Williams remarks were a bunch of shit, it's just as likely he doesn't even believe what he said. Williams wouldn't get on a plane with an employer of his for fear of being killed? Obviously the Saudi prince doesn't mind being called a terrorist because he's making money, and Fox doesn't care a Muslim owns a large part of their network because they're making money.

"Lincolntf -- not sure why you're trying to bait me but I don't see your point. I am not Helen Thomas."

You claimed that she said "Ashkenazic Jews should go back to Europe" and "Eastern European Jews should go back to Eastern Europe".

What she actually said, when asked for a comment about Israel, was:

"Tell them to get the hell out of Palestine! Remember, these people are occupied, and it is their land. It's not Germany, it's not Poland."

When asked where they should go, she said, "Home," and then explained that home was, "Poland, Germany, and America, and everywhere else."

If you want to clarify her comments, by claiming that she really meant that Eastern European Jews should go back to Eastern Europe, or Ashkenazic Jews should go back to Europe, then you are claiming that you have clearer insight into Thomas' comments than the rest of us.

If so, you should have no problem addressing Lincoln's question.

If not, were you just talking out of your ass about what she said or intentionally lying?

Don't be mean to Garage. He didn't really mean it. He was just cheering for his side. The facts of the matter don't really matter.

I think issues like this are kind of a litmus test for reasonableness. Rito passes. FLS and garage not so much.

It's a shame because they are both good guys but they are too invested in rooting for their side to step back for a moment.

I don't share Juan Williams views and often got pissed at the dirvel he spouted. But he struck me as a reasonable person who could debate people in an intelligent manner and hold up his end of the conversation. He didn't deserve to be fired and have his sanity questioned by his boss.

Plus he shows how the liberal NPR is actually a pretty racist joint. I mean Juan Williams was the only black guy there? Where they trying for a twofer because his name is Juan? Like most liberals they love minorities when they are over there. They are like hd who only knows black people if they are his maid or wiping his ass as they change his Depends.

Poor Juan was like the black security guy who beamed down to the planet with Kirk and Spock and Bones. They turned him into a pillar of salt. They always did that.

"It tells me all the muslim fear mongering at Fox is a bunch of bullshit....Williams wouldn't get on a plane with an employer of his for fear of being killed?"

Actually, it's much more accurate to say this talk about muslim fear mongering at Fox is a bunch of bullshit. Not only did Williams not say he wouldn't fly with the Prince of Fox, he didn't say he wouldn't fly with Muslims he didn't know either. He said he experienced a moment of fear.

This incident is extraordinarily illuminating in how the left manages to overhype anything confirming its ridiculous political biases. If you guys were right you wouldn't have to do this.

Hey John Henry, I didn't know that Juan's family was from Panama. That's great. Now he could only be a lesbian than NPR would hit three bases in one person and not have to give a job to some other black dude.

Yeah, the Sox were the last to integrate. Sucks.I believe the first black Sox player was Pumpsie Green. I think we actually gave a tryout to Jackie Robinson but didn't close the deal. Later, Red Auerbach made a special (though very quiet) personal effort to make sure Bill Russell and his other black superstars were accorded the same treatment the white guys got. He later told some reporter that he did it partly to help Boston's sports reputation because of the black mark against the Red Sox. (Some Boston sports historian might know the details a lot better than I remember them. If so, corrections accepted.)

Former Law Student wrote:Liberals don't waste time brooding about the unfairness of it all. Their favorite game is not Eric Berne's "Ain't It Awful." Nursing their outrage is not what gets them through the day.

Were you not here for the 8 years Bush was governing the country, after being selected and not elected while turning the country in to Nazi Germany?No nursed outrage there, that's for sure. The two major flaws of libs. They are assured of their virtue which they assert in the most smug manner possible and they apparently don't recognize that they sound like shrill insane people. Clearly they do not recognize themselves. Which might explain why you dindn't notice the left rabid pique.