Brian Roastbeef wrote:Say what you want about Lou Holtz and Joe Paterno at least they are good God fearing conservatives. (As is my man Peyton Manning - donating big chunks of cash to Fred Thompson IIRC.)

How about good God fearing liberals? Just asking.

"No, no!" said the Queen. "Sentence first–verdict afterward.""Stuff and nonsense!" said Alice "The idea of having the sentence first!""Hold your tongue!" said the Queen, turning purple."I won't!" said Alice."Off with her head!" the Queen shouted at the top of her voice."

Brian Roastbeef wrote:Say what you want about Lou Holtz and Joe Paterno at least they are good God fearing conservatives. (As is my man Peyton Manning - donating big chunks of cash to Fred Thompson IIRC.)

How about good God fearing liberals? Just asking.

Unfortunately, being liberal in these times means that you, most likely, are not a person that would even believe in God. The left, at the national level, supports things that "Reagan Democrats", as they were affectionately called, cannot support.

I go to church with people that consider themselves Democrats and they are at the point that they cannot support them anymore, and it's sad that those people are some of the most disillusioned people in the country right now. They don't know what to do, because they have voted Dem and now they just can't support, with a straight face, some of the things that are coming out right now.

They’re either going to run the ball here or their going to pass it.

The fewer rules a coach has, the fewer rules there are for players to break.

Being a small 'l' libertarian I have no understanding of why anyone would be either Republican or Democrat....I do know some classical liberal thinkers that have religious and moral values, not interested in government interference. They just think the Federal Government should have more power than States Rights....not a whole lot different than our Founding Fathers debated. Just think always good to not use the broad brush....unless it is some sacrosanct doctrine like SOS and then hang 'em...and then the trial. Like Paul...stay in chains and continue preaching.....

"No, no!" said the Queen. "Sentence first–verdict afterward.""Stuff and nonsense!" said Alice "The idea of having the sentence first!""Hold your tongue!" said the Queen, turning purple."I won't!" said Alice."Off with her head!" the Queen shouted at the top of her voice."

It isn't liberal or conservative thinking most people have trouble tolerating. I think it is the level of hypocrisy politicians from both sides spew. Why lie to the people about what they believe. If they believe it then they need to own it. If it works they can pat themselves on the back if not they can head back to the drawing board, but they should stand behind their beliefs.

Spence wrote:It isn't liberal or conservative thinking most people have trouble tolerating. I think it is the level of hypocrisy politicians from both sides spew. Why lie to the people about what they believe. If they believe it then they need to own it. If it works they can pat themselves on the back if not they can head back to the drawing board, but they should stand behind their beliefs.

Your basically asking a politician to voluntarily give up power...unfortunately, that's not how it works with guv-mint.

If Pelosi told everyone she was a Socialist and believed that guvmint should run all bid-ness...she would be thrown out of office...and that is what she believes. If you don't agree, then that's fine, but her track record (what really matters) says differently.

They’re either going to run the ball here or their going to pass it.

The fewer rules a coach has, the fewer rules there are for players to break.

The sad thing is that it is doubtful that if she came out as a socialist she really would lose her seat. After all, her district is some lefty part of California that would probably be okay with a proud socialist. She would probably lose her role as Speaker... but yeah, she really never should have had that.

I suppose I can agree with the point. Give Bernie Sanders some respect, at least he proudly declares himself a Socialist and allows the crazy people of Vermont to keep voting him in even so...

At the same time I can also respect somebody like Mort Zuckerman, who although a liberal Democrat, is not afraid to go out there and criticize those in his own party when they are thoroughly screwing up the country. I probably don't agree with him entirely on what is best for the country as a whole. Most likely our disagreement is in social issues. Nevertheless, in my opinion the best episodes of McLaughlin Group are when Mort is on there rationally and methodically tearing the administration apart for their amateurish grasp of economics. Its just frustrating that somebody who is a businessman himself and can see and understand the damage caused by socialist policies, can't see the light and go Republican already...

I really wonder how many Democrats there must be these days who became such in backing the party of John Kennedy and now cannot recognize it behind the policies of Barack Obama and Nancy Pelosi - yet after decades of knowing only that they are Democrats and not Republicans, don't know where to turn now.

Well Brian, if you think Republicans are going to do anything for the economy, I believe you are sorely mistaken as well!

Two sides, same coin. They both mostly advocate the same interventionist policies in the market that cause the issues, not to mention the artificial expansion of credit caused by the Federal Reserve. But, leftists in general would rather just throw out the word "regulation" as some catch-all phrase and be done with it. In short, I don't think Republicans support the concept of markets, they only do to the extent that it helps the party.

Well lesser of the two evils, but until there is a viable Conservative Party, or conservative leaning Libertarian Party or somebody resembling the Republican party from before WWII, they're the best we have.

By the way, notice that jump in there around 2001. That's around when Republicans from the '94 revolution decided to stop being fiscal conservatives. It happens every 14 years or so. Republicans have a big conservative revolution, promote semi-responsible fiscal conservative policies for a few years, then get corrupted by the Beltway mentality. When they start acting like pseudo-liberals, the country rejects them in favor of the real thing and puts in Democrats instead. Within two to four years the Democrats overreach and we start over again.

Its the mistake that the Democrats make every time. They assume that when they are voted in that the country wants their leftist-socialist policies. We don't. We are a center-right nation. When Democrats are voted in, it is because Republicans haven't been doing their job and voters are trapped by the two party system.

Right now the Republicans are talking fiscal conservatism. 2010 is shaping up to be a Republican year. If the trend continues they'll be respectable until around 2016...

I think we just need to do our homework on the politicians we put in office. Make them own their beliefs - no matter what they are - truth in advertising. I am an independent and I have always been independent. I tend to have conservative views on most things - but not all things. I didn't think I was conservative until maybe 15 or so years ago, when a friend said look at conservative views and how you live. He was right. Most people live their life and structure their budget conservatively, but lots of people don't realize it.