Dietery Advice Badly Needed! How To Live Without Grain?

In the past two years or so, I've been developing intolerance of all kinds of foods, inluding fats, nearly all legumes and seemingly all of the non-gluten grains, as well as the gluten ones of course.

I'm also vegan ( used to be just veggie, but intolerences pushed me the whole way)

I seem able to tolerate Soya Milk. Often , that's my only source of protein.

The NHS referrered me to Dietician who unhelpfully told me that I must eat grains, or else I'd develop serious deficiencies.

She was a bit of an idiot (she told me bananas are not an energy food, but a fruit!) so I'm not altogether certain that's true, but of course it's worrying!

Since then, I've ben re-intoducing rice at intervals, then dropping it again whenever the reactions get too severe. Seems my sensitivity diminishes when I'm off it, abd then increases with increasing exposure. Same for other foods, by and large. But I went for rice because it was the last of the grains to start provoking reactions, my reactions to rice never got quite so severe as other reactions, and it is supposed to be easiest to tolerate.

Today I suddenly started reacting quite severely to rice again. So that's rice scratched from my diet for the next few month, again. Should I be worried about these deficiencies?

I am using nut flours instead of grains. Nuts are also made into milks. Eat coconut and /or coconut milk if you can. I have been told not to have soy, but I don't know if that is a common recommendation for celiac.

Are you on supplements and digestive enzymes? These helped me when I had numerous intolerances. I also did a four day rotation that helped. Add new and varied foods when you can find them.

Meats are some of my very best foods, so I can't imagine getting along without them.

You can eat healthy without grains. Some things we think are grains are actually nuts or seeds. Just try to keep a balance of fiber and nutrients. You can certainly eat a limited variety of food for a few month and then try new items, 1 at a time. Maybe when healed you will be able to eat some grains.

Actually - your dietician is right - a banana is a fruit.

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"Children in a family are like flowers in a bouquet: there's always one determined to face in an opposite direction from the way the arranger desires."~Marcelene Cox

One thing to determine is if your problem is an intolerance to these foods, or a reaction to some contamination of these foods. I reacted to all sorts of foods, but found that I could eat them if I sourced them carefully. Tomatoes was one of the bad ones, and I happened to have some growing in my garden and I could eat those without any issues. That's what clinched it for me. When I figured that out, it gave me many more food options, I just had to source them carefully. Next time you try rice, I suggest you try rice grown and processed in Thailand. That is the one grain that I can tolerate. It helps track sources of problems to keep a food/symptom journal, and keep your diet simple.

I would definitely look into Paleo and the SCD diet (not entirely sure if that would help or not). And yeah...I'd make sure you're not reacting to something sprayed on your food as well.

I would stay off all the grains (which is why I'm thinking Paleo...they could give you lots of ideas/recipes) for at least a year. No cheating to trying to add anything back in. Give your body a chance to really start healing from exposure to those things. I think taking rice out for a bit and then eating it until you have a reaction again is wreaking havoc on your body.

Here's a good link to Paleo:
www.thepaleomom.com

She has good information and doesn't seem so uptight about it all. I mean...I know they exclude a lot but if you're trying that diet for a reason and one of their excluded foods are one of the few you can tolerate....she wouldn't jump down your throat for eating it, ya know?

But like I said in my post on your other thread....I would start with major elimination diet first.

One general point: my options are very limited by financial constraints, due to being on State Beneits (and losing a portion of the these- perhaps even the whole if i lose my Appeal-- as I was assessed as "fit for work"in 2012). My family are helping, but unable to help very much, nor forever! I also have very limited mobility these days, so if it can't be got from my weekly trip to the supermaket (A friend give me a lift) it can't be got. I know that many things can be got online now, but -apart from difficulty paying- i find that i miss deliveries, due to narcolepsy!

Thus, when it comes to careful sourcing of foods, I just have to cut them out instead

@mommy 2krj:

Obviously i can't follow a proper paleo diet, but it does look like i might get some useful ideas from it. Thanks!

But like I said in my post on your other thread....I would start with major elimination diet first.

Done and dusted. I've done an elimination diet every time I've developed unex[ected symptoms. The problem now is that the foods that I've successfully re-introduced are horribly limited!

ginger (yeah, i know that's a spice, but it's from a root not a seed. isn't it?)

salt

In defense of the the refined sugar: i used to exclusively use artificial substitutes before i got awful reactions to those (surprise, surprise!). I recently increase my sugar consumption since realising that low blood sugar impacts on my health pretty drastical;y. Now i constantly carry boiled sweets around with me, for emergency use; andI do tend to over-use them when suffering a bad bout of nacolepsy and fatigue(i.e. at least 30% of the time) I know its not a great idea but it's better than eating nothing at all, which is the all-too-likely alternative (when feeling sick to death of bananas! . or even running out of them)

I've repeatedly had to cut out all refined fats and oils, including Olive Oil, but, just as with rice I do cautiously re-introduce for periods. I even eat potato chips (French Fries, to you americans) on occasion!

One thing to determine is if your problem is an intolerance to these foods, or a reaction to some contamination of these foods. I reacted to all sorts of foods, but found that I could eat them if I sourced them carefully. Tomatoes was one of the bad ones, and I happened to have some growing in my garden and I could eat those without any issues. That's what clinched it for me. When I figured that out, it gave me many more food options, I just had to source them carefully. Next time you try rice, I suggest you try rice grown and processed in Thailand. That is the one grain that I can tolerate. It helps track sources of problems to keep a food/symptom journal, and keep your diet simple.

I have indeed considereed that, and looked into chlorine treatment of food, since I do know that i'm very sensitive to chlorine. What i found is alarming! But in practice, jyst about all i can realistically do is drink bottled water only, avoid processed foods insofar as i realistically can, and hope for the best!

One curious thing i found is that ground foods (eg ground rice) affect me more easily and more severely. That could be due to chloribe absorption, or other contaminants, i think. Whateverthe cause it's a blow! because ground foods are much more easily prpared and much more easily eaten (now I've lost my teeth). I'd started to really enjoy microwaved ground rice puddings!

I am using nut flours instead of grains. Nuts are also made into milks. Eat coconut and /or coconut milk if you can. I have been told not to have soy, but I don't know if that is a common recommendation for celiac.

Are you on supplements and digestive enzymes? These helped me when I had numerous intolerances. I also did a four day rotation that helped. Add new and varied foods when you can find them.

Meats are some of my very best foods, so I can't imagine getting along without them.

Get Well, ***

D

Hmm, my use of nut flours etc was always pretty limited due to high cost. And now my problem with ground food also makes me wary.

Coconut is relatively cheap of course (deprnding on individual product. The milk isn;t cheap). I recently dicovered coconut cream in the supermarket and was using that as a topping for fruit for a while. My latest rash of sever food reactions has made me call a halt to that, but i do intend to try re-intoducing it, soon as I feel brave enough.

I'd also started eating almond paste as a snack, which was probablty worse but i thought it might be better, nutritionally speaking , than boiled sweets!

Actually - your dietician is right - a banana is a fruit.

I know it's a fruit, but that doesn't stop it being an energy food! what she said was like saying " A grandfather clock isn't a timepiece, it's an item of furniture" Would you trust an antiquarian who told you that?

i also forgot to say, all the rice products i use are processed in some way, since boling and steaming are too dangerous and time consuming for me ( i scald myself too often, and get worn out suddenly, so i go for things that cook fast, and that don't involve boiled water )

My favourite is Rude Health Puffed Rice, but I guess I'll be going without it awhile *sigh*

#1 stop eating all oils that don't come from meat (coconut is OK but mostly from meats) totally and I mean don't even have them in the house, stop eating potato, don't eat sweet potato. Eat lots of Chicken (seems I'm doing a lot of ex vegan anti veganism today lol). Cook everything in lard or ghee or butter if you have to. Don't eat fruits (esp citrus and banana) for a while but you can after a couple months. I find kiwi fruit no problem to eat unlimited amounts. Don't eat any grains, not even rice.

That's my experience of what messes you up the worst. Chicken is easy to throw in the oven and roast, fairly cheap for the nutrients you get, you can throw some pumpkin in there too, it digests well, after a little while on chicken go for some fatty mince meat into burger or something like that (that's how I started). You can live on that plus some leafy vegies and probably do much better than you are on a restricted vegan diet. In the end us long term vegans have to come to terms with not eating animals and dying or living, I know it's very hard but you really do need to put yourself first for the sake of your family at least in the end. Don't eat boiled lollies!.. You want to be walking around with a box of cold chicken and a litre of green smoothie (or red smoothy if it's got beetroots with a full ginger in it rather than lollies.

Basically pretend it's the year 1890 and there's no grains left in the world and you will be OK.

Sorry to hear of your troubles. If you can have soy milk, then I assume that you could have soybeans as well? You can get canned ones here. Can you get canned ones there? Can you eat any other beans? Peas? Can you eat seeds? I sometimes use hemp seeds and chia seeds for protein. They're not exactly cheap though.

As for the deficiencies, I can relate. I take a handful of supplements every morning and night and more with dinner. They're not cheap!

#1 stop eating all oils that don't come from meat (coconut is OK but mostly from meats) totally and I mean don't even have them in the house, stop eating potato, don't eat sweet potato. Eat lots of Chicken (seems I'm doing a lot of ex vegan anti veganism today lol). Cook everything in lard or ghee or butter if you have to. Don't eat fruits (esp citrus and banana) for a while but you can after a couple months. I find kiwi fruit no problem to eat unlimited amounts. Don't eat any grains, not even rice.

That's my experience of what messes you up the worst. Chicken is easy to throw in the oven and roast, fairly cheap for the nutrients you get, you can throw some pumpkin in there too, it digests well, after a little while on chicken go for some fatty mince meat into burger or something like that (that's how I started). You can live on that plus some leafy vegies and probably do much better than you are on a restricted vegan diet. In the end us long term vegans have to come to terms with not eating animals and dying or living, I know it's very hard but you really do need to put yourself first for the sake of your family at least in the end. Don't eat boiled lollies!.. You want to be walking around with a box of cold chicken and a litre of green smoothie (or red smoothy if it's got beetroots with a full ginger in it rather than lollies.

Basically pretend it's the year 1890 and there's no grains left in the world and you will be OK.

Heck, give up potato and fruit as well is the last thing I need to hear

I think I'll pass on this lot. one man's meat is another poison, as they say, so whilst I'm sure it works for you, I'm not all convinced that vegetarianism is an issue. I don't see veggies posting here in huge numbers, as would surely be the case if a veggie diet contributed to gluten sensitivity etc.

jay

Sorry to hear of your troubles. If you can have soy milk, then I assume that you could have soybeans as well? You can get canned ones here. Can you get canned ones there? Can you eat any other beans? Peas? Can you eat seeds? I sometimes use hemp seeds and chia seeds for protein. They're not exactly cheap though.

As for the deficiencies, I can relate. I take a handful of supplements every morning and night and more with dinner. They're not cheap!

Well, I found the Boots ones to be surprisingly cheap, and they seem to contain full RDA of just about everything, as regards vits . Just a bit concerned about amino acids.

I haven't dared try soybeans, nor Tofu (formerly a favourite) , since reacting to all the other legumes I've tried. Coffee (usually granulated) and soy milk are the only exceptions I've found; and I have an idea that whatever -it-is I'm reacting to might have got processed out of the beans. So, supposing I ate the unprocessed beans and had a reaction? That might, conceivably sensitise me.

Highly theoretical, but given my dependency on Soymilk, not worth the risk.

My experiences with seeds have not been good . So before I even thought about trying to add some expensive seed to my diet, I'd want to there to be clear benefits that I couldn't get any other way.

It goes without saying that the variety of foods available these days is too vast to experiment with everything, so there might well be things that would work for me, but i never found good enough reaason to try. Was kinda hoping that somebody would know exactly what a meat-free , grain-free would be likely to miss, and how to compensate for that particular imbalance.

Heck, give up potato and fruit as well is the last thing I need to hear

I think I'll pass on this lot. one man's meat is another poison, as they say, so whilst I'm sure it works for you, I'm not all convinced that vegetarianism is an issue. I don't see veggies posting here in huge numbers, as would surely be the case if a veggie diet contributed to gluten sensitivity etc.

jay

Well, I found the Boots ones to be surprisingly cheap, and they seem to contain full RDA of just about everything, as regards vits . Just a bit concerned about amino acids.

I haven't dared try soybeans, nor Tofu (formerly a favourite) , since reacting to all the other legumes I've tried. Coffee (usually granulated) and soy milk are the only exceptions I've found; and I have an idea that whatever -it-is I'm reacting to might have got processed out of the beans. So, supposing I ate the unprocessed beans and had a reaction? That might, conceivably sensitise me.

Highly theoretical, but given my dependency on Soymilk, not worth the risk.

My experiences with seeds have not been good . So before I even thought about trying to add some expensive seed to my diet, I'd want to there to be clear benefits that I couldn't get any other way.

It goes without saying that the variety of foods available these days is too vast to experiment with everything, so there might well be things that would work for me, but i never found good enough reaason to try. Was kinda hoping that somebody would know exactly what a meat-free , grain-free would be likely to miss, and how to compensate for that particular imbalance.

Thanks for the response

My first thought on this is B12 - I'm very surprised your dietician didn't mention it.

Since it is mainly found in animal products, it is a special concern for vegetarians and if I remember correctly, Marmite was about the only rich source of B12 to be found in a vegetarian diet (other than through pills or fortified foods)......It is also one of the vits we (gastrically challenged people) tend to be low on.......Fancy trying some marmite? When I was vegetarian, I used to put it in soups, stews and gravies...

Individuals with gastrointestinal disordersIndividuals with stomach and small intestine disorders, such as celiac disease and Crohn's disease, may be unable to absorb enough vitamin B12 from food to maintain healthy body stores [12,23]. Subtly reduced cognitive function resulting from early vitamin B12 deficiency might be the only initial symptom of these intestinal disorders, followed by megaloblastic anemia and dementia.

VegetariansStrict vegetarians and vegans are at greater risk than lacto-ovo vegetarians and nonvegetarians of developing vitamin B12 deficiency because natural food sources of vitamin B12 are limited to animal foods [5]. Fortified breakfast cereals are one of the few sources of vitamin B12 from plants and can be used as a dietary source of vitamin B12 for strict vegetarians and vegans.

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Obvious symptoms started as a baby with gastroenteritis....
Self - diagnosed celiac at age 41 - Gluten-free since December 2012, shortly after realised in needed to avoid:
Dairy, soy, all grains, all pseudo-grains, nightshades, legumes, MSG, xantham gum, all sugar alcohols.
Low sugar/refined carbs since Aug '08 due to reactive hypoglycemia.

22/03/13 Mung beans and blackeyebeans reintroduced successfully!

26/06/13 Some symptoms mysteriously returned - found loads of CC in my nuts and dried beans!! (verified by food/symptom journal and emails to companies)

There's actually a lot of vegetarians or ex vegetarians on here compared to the general population, being vegetarian is great in theory so long as you can do it without processed foods and without grains.. But how are you going to do that long term in the modern world. The problem is not the meat, the problem is the grains and you can't get enough nutrition to heal while dumping the grains without it. That's my opinion I have an incurable disease now and perhaps a quite short lifespan and a newborn boy to look after.. was it worth it to save 10 cows... depends on your opinion maybe. But my opinion is unless you majorly change your diet you'll continue to get sicker and then you'll get an auto immune disease or a genetic error and something much worse. Don't mean to scare you but that's the truth. I still eat practically as a vegetarian, probably more vegetables than I ever did, because I don't eat grains and in fact I'm mostly raw I just also eat meat now, quite a bit of that I eat preserved raw also.

You can get back to me once you've done your 20 years vegan and let me know how you got on .

Having the same symptoms - looong list of food intolerances and low blood sugar levels, I could deduct 2 problems:

- leaky gut

- adrenal fatigue

As for low sugar levels - if this goes along with low pressure - this points to adrenal fatigue. Taking sugar is not a best idea! It does only temporarily help but does not cure, in addition it does feed candida that worsens both leaky gut and adrenal fatigue.

To treat adrenal fatigue those are golden supplements: Vitamin B5 (pantothenic acid) and licorice root (non DGL). Licorice is also great for leaky gut.

I used to be vegan - oops - hits bad my adrenals. I had to reintroduce fish. But only fish (no meat/dairy/eggs)

As for grains - I have no problem with buckwheat and millet - both are excellent source of well-balanced protein. Have you tried those?

Teff is another good option.

Rice is bad for me as well.

I would have to agree that potatos are bad, soy is bad and coffee is too bad

I should perhaps add that my research into my symptoms suggests an underlying systemic disorder of some kind, plus a shedload of complications, including probably some of the things you've mentioned. I've had all kinds of tests , but nothing has ever showed besides vit D deficiency (now supplementing). I think the main problem is that the NHS isn't willing to offer the right sort of tests, which would include a gut biopsy IMO, as the food issues began with gluten (about 7 years ago)and I'm sure my symptoms suggest some pretty serious bowel damage, though i tested negative for antibodies.

The foods that I now avoid all cause me bring up ridiculous amounts of wind 5-6 hours later. And I do mean ridiculous. It can hard to catch my breath inbetween burps, and it fel as if my stomach is in danger of exploding. At the same time, I feel nauseous and suffer a range of acute neorological symptoms. Plus other symptoms, depending on the specific food. Given the wide range of foods that cause these acute reactions, its enough of a challenge to devise a healthy, affordab;e diet out of what's left. And if i ever manage that much, then it will time to consider if some of those foods might have a more subtle effect, I think. And if i might be better off cutting some of those out too.

Obviously, for a Briton on a very low income, cutting out bread and potatoes is nigh-on impossible, so i'm very glad to report that, whatever the theory says, I do tolerate potatoes ...at least a lot better than those other things.

As regard the refined sugar: yeah i know that's not a good compromise, but it is very cheap and readily available, and the only other realistic instant energy food that I've found is bananas ( i mean instant in the sense that it takes no preperation and cooking, which is often very important factor). I've ben using this since I realised that my "seizures" (in quotes because it hasn't been confirmed if they aere actually seizures or not. they just look that way) are most often triggerered by low blood sugar, if not exercise (which would lead to low sugar, right?so that's to say the same thing, i suppose), Since I made a point of eating something every 4 hours, if only a handful of sweets, I've had much less trouble with this, and that overrides the general health considerations. If I do have one of these "seizures", then I usually spend the next three days sleeping most of the time, and feeling pretty groggy when awake. Then everything, diet included, goes to pot! It's a case of choosing the lesser evil, there!

By the way, I'm sure my menopause had a very big negative impact on all this. I asked my GP about HRT,but she said they don't like to prescribe it these days due to side effects ( Am I being cynical for suspecting it's more due to cost? )

My first thought on this is B12 - I'm very surprised your dietician didn't mention it.

Since it is mainly found in animal products, it is a special concern for vegetarians and if I remember correctly, Marmite was about the only rich source of B12 to be found in a vegetarian diet (other than through pills or fortified foods)......It is also one of the vits we (gastrically challenged people) tend to be low on.......Fancy trying some marmite? When I was vegetarian, I used to put it in soups, stews and gravies...

Individuals with gastrointestinal disordersIndividuals with stomach and small intestine disorders, such as celiac disease and Crohn's disease, may be unable to absorb enough vitamin B12 from food to maintain healthy body stores [12,23]. Subtly reduced cognitive function resulting from early vitamin B12 deficiency might be the only initial symptom of these intestinal disorders, followed by megaloblastic anemia and dementia.

VegetariansStrict vegetarians and vegans are at greater risk than lacto-ovo vegetarians and nonvegetarians of developing vitamin B12 deficiency because natural food sources of vitamin B12 are limited to animal foods [5]. Fortified breakfast cereals are one of the few sources of vitamin B12 from plants and can be used as a dietary source of vitamin B12 for strict vegetarians and vegans.

I've repeatedly tested as OK for B12, but then that's one of the things that's added to Soyamilk. And it's also in the probiotic supplements I'm taking.

I used to love Marmite! Yes, I put in soups and stews, just the same ! But I have sufferered from candida overgrowth, in the past, and heard it's beast to avoid yeast products in that case? Anyway, I've cut out in the course of elimination diets of course; and never yet quite had the courage to try re-introdcing it.

Not sure how I'd eat it now. can't spread it on bread! And i just don't have the stamina, and co-ordination, for making soups and stews anymore . I got tired of makinfg a huge mess of the kitchen, scalding myself and/or falling asleep before I'd finished preparing my meal! (the last being what totally discouraged me in the end). But I'm sure I'll think of something (maybe spread it on my microwave-baked parsnips?)

There's actually a lot of vegetarians or ex vegetarians on here compared to the general population, being vegetarian is great in theory so long as you can do it without processed foods and without grains.. But how are you going to do that long term in the modern world. The problem is not the meat, the problem is the grains and you can't get enough nutrition to heal while dumping the grains without it. That's my opinion I have an incurable disease now and perhaps a quite short lifespan and a newborn boy to look after.. was it worth it to save 10 cows... depends on your opinion maybe. But my opinion is unless you majorly change your diet you'll continue to get sicker and then you'll get an auto immune disease or a genetic error and something much worse. Don't mean to scare you but that's the truth. I still eat practically as a vegetarian, probably more vegetables than I ever did, because I don't eat grains and in fact I'm mostly raw I just also eat meat now, quite a bit of that I eat preserved raw also.

You can get back to me once you've done your 20 years vegan and let me know how you got on .

well, I gave up meat and eggs about 30 years ago, and dairy 7 years ago, due to intolerance. So that averages to nearly 20 years I guess

Interstingly , I gave into my cravings for eggs, when I was pregnant with my son 24 years ago, just in case my body knew what it was doing (I fondly recall how his Dad used to drive me to a nearby farm once-a-week , to buy them. We could see the chickens happily scratching round the shed where the eggs were sold, and the ducks in the pond, so no doubt about them being proper free-range eggs ) I gave them up again afterwards, but my son remains a fanatic for eggs!

My five cents...

Having the same symptoms - looong list of food intolerances and low blood sugar levels, I could deduct 2 problems:

- leaky gut

- adrenal fatigue

As for low sugar levels - if this goes along with low pressure - this points to adrenal fatigue. Taking sugar is not a best idea! It does only temporarily help but does not cure, in addition it does feed candida that worsens both leaky gut and adrenal fatigue.

To treat adrenal fatigue those are golden supplements: Vitamin B5 (pantothenic acid) and licorice root (non DGL). Licorice is also great for leaky gut.

I used to be vegan - oops - hits bad my adrenals. I had to reintroduce fish. But only fish (no meat/dairy/eggs)

As for grains - I have no problem with buckwheat and millet - both are excellent source of well-balanced protein. Have you tried those?

Teff is another good option.

Rice is bad for me as well.

I would have to agree that potatos are bad, soy is bad and coffee is too bad

I used to love liquorice, but liquorice sweets always seems to have added ingredients that I can't tolerate (and/or gelatine ofc) plus they are chewy of course, as are the natural liqorice sticks that i bought for a time. I wonder if there's a simple way tp mke natural liquorice less chewy? (lost all my teeth now)