No official word on this at the moment, but apparently the Indians have agreed to a deal in principle to acquire infielder Mark DeRosa from the Cubs in exchange for reliever Jeff Stevens and a few other minor leaguers. No word on how many other players will be traded or what minor leaguers the Indians are sending out, but this is what I have learned as of now.

TribeNut wrote:Oh, great, Jeff Stevens AND more prospects- for a career utility infielder until a few years ago with the Cubs.

.291 average over the last 3 years, can play almost anywhere on the diamond, and is only signed through 2009 at a very reasonable rate. He's a cheaper Casey Blake, and his primary position is our greatest non-pitching need. Adam Miller, Jon Meloan, Tony Sipp (if healthy), plus the Wood/Smith additions help make Stevens expendable. We have young, projectable bullpen arms. We don't have a 2B that can hit. Depending on who the other prospects are, I'd say that is a pretty good deal.

You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves-----Abe Lincoln

Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts. -----Lars

I've liked DeRosa since he came up with the Braves, so I like it depending on who the other players are.

We need someone to play 2B this year. DeRosa is a big improvement over Carroll and Valbuena probably isn't ready. Barfield is toast.

Plus, Wedgie gets a new Casey Blake type. DeRosa is a better fielder but not as fast and not near the arm that Blake has. He can play any position except pitcher and catcher and makes better contact than Blake. Not as much power despite that he's a big, stocky guy.

This seems like a good way to fill a major hole. It also may assure that Jhonny will be the 3B and Droobs will be the SS next season.

Depending upon the other players, he is a decent pickup for the Tribe. Between DeRosa and Valbuena, they have certainly fixed their middle infield problem for the near and (hopefull) long term. Between DeRosa, Peralta, ACab, Hodges and perhaps some others, this should take care of the infield.

Now, if Huff, Rondon or DeLaCruz are part of the package......I reserve the right to bitch.

What's not to like about DeRosa? He's definitely a grinder.I think he will have lots of success here. Good move.

Last edited by fundamentals on Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

"It's all about winning for me, and I think the Cavs are committed to doing that," he said. "But at the same time I've given myself options to this point, and like I said before, me and my team, we have a game plan that we're going to execute, and we'll see what we get."

ArtGold wrote:Depending upon the other players, he is a decent pickup for the Tribe. Between DeRosa and Valbuena, they have certainly fixed their middle infield problem for the near and (hopefull) long term. Between DeRosa, Peralta, ACab, Hodges and perhaps some others, this should take care of the infield.

Now, if Huff, Rondon or DeLaCruz are part of the package......I reserve the right to bitch.

Just going based on the fact that the "other" minor-leaguers have to be less acclaimed than Jeff Stevens, this looks like a good trade. Cheap way to fill a major hole without hamstringing the org with a huge contract.

ArtGold wrote:Depending upon the other players, he is a decent pickup for the Tribe. Between DeRosa and Valbuena, they have certainly fixed their middle infield problem for the near and (hopefull) long term. Between DeRosa, Peralta, ACab, Hodges and perhaps some others, this should take care of the infield.

Now, if Huff, Rondon or DeLaCruz are part of the package......I reserve the right to bitch.

Agree on both counts. Now we find one more SP, and as far as I am concerned it is a wildly successful offseason.

You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves-----Abe Lincoln

Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts. -----Lars

Sounds great to me...if Stevens is the main player given up. He is a guy who may or may not someday pitch in the majors. We fill second base, solidify the infield and dont give up major trade bait which can be used for a pitcher. Go get us one Mark.

ArtGold wrote:Depending upon the other players, he is a decent pickup for the Tribe. Between DeRosa and Valbuena, they have certainly fixed their middle infield problem for the near and (hopefull) long term. Between DeRosa, Peralta, ACab, Hodges and perhaps some others, this should take care of the infield.

Now, if Huff, Rondon or DeLaCruz are part of the package......I reserve the right to bitch.

Just going based on the fact that the "other" minor-leaguers have to be less acclaimed than Jeff Stevens, this looks like a good trade. Cheap way to fill a major hole without hamstringing the org with a huge contract.

I would assume this too, but I don't know how they view potential. I know how I view potential, so...

Consigliere wrote:Not sure if this is centered around Stevens, but I doubt it. I think the center piece is one of our young lefty starters + Stevens and if a third player is involved a lower level pitcher.

As I recall, Huff and DeLaCruz are young lefty starters, hopefully it isn't either of these two.

Others are Scott Lewis and Lofgren, aside from Laffey and Sowers.

EDIT: Maybe we can get them to toss in Jose Ceda (relief pitcher in middle minors, too)

Depends on who we are giving up but If Derosa can give us two good yrs at secondbase so VB can finish off his development its a good deal . It also buys time for Chisenhall or Phelps. Now, I can live with an aging grinder as long as he is a placeholder. The good news is that its now official, we have a ML caliber SS in Asdrubal

EDIT: I hope Huff isn't in the deal!

" No big stars on the team is by design. "We can't afford to have the inefficiencies, even for a great talent. We need to function as efficiently as possible in our clubhouse, and that means guys have to know what it means to be a good teammate. We don't want to waste the energy on dealing with all those distractions. Besides, we value character over talent here in Cleveland---Mark Shapiro

I'm guessing that this means Jhonny is our starting 3B in 2009 ? I like it. Things are shaping up nicely. If we could get a solid SP, I would be estatic. This is the most aggressive I have seen Shapiro in an offseason. He is adressing all the holes on our 2008 roster.

hornet84 wrote:I'm guessing that this means Jhonny is our starting 3B in 2009 ? I like it. Things are shaping up nicely. If we could get a solid SP, I would be estatic. This is the most aggressive I have seen Shapiro in an offseason. He is adressing all the holes on our 2008 roster.

Nope, looks like Jhonny stays at SS from what I'm hearing on Cleveland.com

Derosas best position is secondbase and we are moving him to third? Brilliant Markie.

Yea, I would really hate to disrupt that fine infield with a statue at SS

" No big stars on the team is by design. "We can't afford to have the inefficiencies, even for a great talent. We need to function as efficiently as possible in our clubhouse, and that means guys have to know what it means to be a good teammate. We don't want to waste the energy on dealing with all those distractions. Besides, we value character over talent here in Cleveland---Mark Shapiro

Clearly a "scouts" trade from the Cubs perspective. They really are looking at the young bullpen arms here, and Archer is a high ceiling and high risk pickup. Great stuff but little idea how to actually use it.

Stu wrote:I think people just look for reasons to bitch. First it was, OH NOES WE GAVE UP HUFF IM GOING TO HATE IT. now its, HES GOING TO 3RD INSTEAD OF PERALTA I HATE IT.

just wait and see people.

Think about it man. We just got a guy who hit .290 with 20 HR and nearly 90 RBI last season as a middle infielder. Why wouldn't we suspect that one of our lefty starters was in it? Or worse.

You don't find trades for .857 OPS players the year previous where you don't have to give up a single major league player very often, and shit, only one guy on the 40 I believe.

If everyone is able to take the label off of Stevens that he is the guy we got for Brandon Phillips and look at it objectively, this is a steal by Shapiro. Even taking that into account, it's a very good trade by Shapiro and a guy that we actually have a chance to retain in the offseason if we want to go that route.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

Even if the idea of DeRosa going to 3rd rather than shifting the infield around, that could be a better situation anyways, now I have never seen DeRosa play 3rd or what a combo of Jhonny and DeRosa on that side would be like, but I would much rather have a guy playing 3rd that has over 200 games at that position rather than Jhonny who has played a mere 9 games.

Tribe Fan since 1995!

And...

Remember, fans, Tuesday is Die Hard Night. Free admission for anyone who was actually alive the last time the Indians won the pennant.

Some of us just realize that Jhonny is not a major league SS, honestly. I like DeRosa either way, but I'm not sure I like this trade nearly as much if he is just chilling at 3rd as the next Casey Blake.

Skating Tripods wrote:Think about it man. We just got a guy who hit .290 with 20 HR and nearly 90 RBI last season as a middle infielder. Why wouldn't we suspect that one of our lefty starters was in it? Or worse.

Umm... because the headline said Stevens and others for DeRosa.

You usually put the headline players involved in the trade... in the HEADLINE!

Chris wrote:Some of us just realize that Jhonny is not a major league SS, honestly. I like DeRosa either way, but I'm not sure I like this trade nearly as much if he is just chilling at 3rd as the next Casey Blake.

I think the people that don't see Peralta being an adequate SS watch too many replays of Vizquel playing SS for the Indians in the nineties. Omar is going to go down as the best defensive SS in history in my book, but there are only a few that can even come close to that level of play, so everyone else is just going to be adequate when comparing them to the great ones.

Tribe Fan since 1995!

And...

Remember, fans, Tuesday is Die Hard Night. Free admission for anyone who was actually alive the last time the Indians won the pennant.

Chris wrote:Some of us just realize that Jhonny is not a major league SS, honestly. I like DeRosa either way, but I'm not sure I like this trade nearly as much if he is just chilling at 3rd as the next Casey Blake.

I think the people that don't see Peralta being an adequate SS watch too many replays of Vizquel playing SS for the Indians in the nineties. Omar is going to go down as the best defensive SS in history in my book, but there are only a few that can even come close to that level of play, so everyone else is just going to be adequate when comparing them to the great ones.

Wouldnt you rather A-Cab at SS though? Sure would make me feel better. But oh well. DeRosa does help our lineup.

I like the deal. As long as DeRosa puts up numbers similar to last year, whether he's at 2nd or 3rd doesn't matter to me. I'll take his performance at either of those positions -- happy with it at 3rd, delighted with it at 2nd, based of what you expect from someone playing those two positions at a competent level in the major leagues.

As for the infield positioning of DeRosa, Droobs and Jhonny, I think that's the real genius here. By acquiring a guy who has played both 2nd and 3rd, Shap isn't locking the infield in place. If Jhonny comes out and plays well at 3rd during spring training, then he goes there. If he's not ready to make the transition, then DeRosa goes there. Options are nice to have. Everybody's happy because the infield is fluid, and Wedge gets another grinder.

One way or the other, the infield is going to be DeRosa/Peralta/Cabrera. If the Tribe feels the defense will be stronger with DeRosa @ 3B, so be it. I wouldn't be shocked to see his power #s drop considerably- say, 10 HRs and 30 doubles- but if he can keep his average around .280, he will be a solid addition. If folks are expecting him to put up another career year, you will be disappointed. Nothing spectacular. The price was solid for him, too.

Chris wrote:Wouldnt you rather A-Cab at SS though? Sure would make me feel better. But oh well. DeRosa does help our lineup.

I agree. I think this is more of The As-Man being an excellent SS rather that Jhonny being a "sub-standard" one.

At least that's the way I look at it.

The As-Man needs to play SS, IMHO.

Oh yeah no doubt I believe ACab is a better SS, and could be by the end of his career if he works hard because at his young age he still has some kinks to work out, he could be one of those few you put in the conversation with Omar and company. My thinking is though, DeRosa is just more experienced and a move for Peralta could really mess with his mind, we really don't need a repeat of 2006 next year do we?

Tribe Fan since 1995!

And...

Remember, fans, Tuesday is Die Hard Night. Free admission for anyone who was actually alive the last time the Indians won the pennant.

Okay, first of all, I love this deal - whether he plays 2nd or 3rd. I'm totally stumped as to why anybody would say it's a good deal if they play him at 2nd but a bad deal if they play him at 3rd. That makes 0 sense to me. First of all, it's about improving the lineup and no matter which position he plays, the lineup has improved. Secondly, yeah, he's only a 1-year rental, but we gave up a prospect who is a relief pitcher and 2 low level prospects who weren't in the Indians plans for at least the next 2 seasons.

Whether he plays 2nd or 3rd it means neither Marte or Barfield will be in the lineup this season. Explain to me how that's a bad thing? Also, as someone else pointed out, it was a blogger who gave the opinion that he thought DeRosa would be moved to 3rd. I didn't see any direct quote from Shapiro or Wedge to that effect. The fact is that if they did that, it would be going against everything that Shapiro has been saying. He said he wants to move Peralta to 3rd and given that DeRosa is at least an average ML 2nd baseman and certainly better defensively than Barfield, it wouldn't make any sense not to have him at 2nd.

DeRosa will be a perfect fit for this lineup. My assumption is that he'll bat 2nd. Has a solid OBP and bats RH which is what we want for our 2 hitter batting behind Grady. Also, this gives Valbuena a window of playing in 3A to further develop. Anyway you look at it, this was an excellent deal all around.

Shapiro and the Indians are now 2 thirds of the way from this being an excellent off season. Now get that #2 or #3 starter and this team is all set to challenge for the division.

It's just not a big deal. The only position player on the team with a defined position is Grady; everyone else can and will play multiple spots. That statement presumably includes Jhonny because why else would he have spent his entire winter ball stint at third base. The 2009 Indians are completely versatile, and as long as we get offensive production from the combined multitude I think we can live with the mediocre defense. Go get us one more starter Mark, and then lets quit screwing around with this whole off-season winter crap and get down to it!

I like the trade to a point. I think this paired with our other trade for Valbuena, took away a lot of minimal risk trading chips in Gut and Stevens. Now, we need a starting pitcher with out excess of ready ML OFs and ready relievers gone. Leaves us with basically Hodges and lefty starters for our major pieces for a trade (and Shoppach). I just rather have had more chips for the starter first and then found what we could for the 1-year stop gap at 2nd.

To those who say you can trade Crowe or Meloan, my comment would be

1) We need Sipp and Meloan to take over for Miller, Betancourt and Kobi next year (Miller shift to starter and we will not pick up the options on the other two).

2) I don't mind trading Crowe, if we know Hafner is back as we don't need to shift Laporta to DH and we would have Brantley/Laporta coming into our OF next year for Delluci and possibly Choo (if he wants to go do his tour of duty).

Really, we had no room for Stevens with Meloan and Sipp coming up sometime this year or two and a full pen. We had excess relievers like Gaub even at the lower levels with Wagner, Bryson, Pontius, etc. And, we have a lot of starters with House, Haley and Putnam. Thus, we didn't lose much and hopefully we can get a draft pick or two when DeRosa becomes a free agent. So, I like these 3-1 trades.

Yet, I still think we have a major hole at SP which I wish they had chips of Gut and Stevens to add to get the best upgrade there and settle at 2nd base with what is left.

First is defense. Cabrera is supposed to be an outstanding shortstop Peralta is average. At some point Peralta is going to third I just prefer sooner than later.

Second DeRosa's hitting is outstanding for a second baseman but only average for a third baseman. Traditionally third base is a hitters position second is more of a defensive position. When your looking at who is available for what those are what you generally find in those positions. Its why Marte is at 3rd and Barfield at 2nd even if they have not worked out so far.

I am not so sure about DeRosa batting second. I have not seen him play but I do see he has very few stolen bases. I think his 6 last year is his high. His power numbers make are pretty high for a contact guy who moves runners etc. Maybe someone with more knowledge can tell a bit more about that.