Shouldn't we let the season play out a bit more and then judge. I think it would give us all more of a basis to draw conclusions. It's still too early to make threads like this.

Based on what I've seen so far, I think its safe to say the season has been pretty successful. We're currently a sixth seed and we've developed our young talent to various degrees, which has shown on court. Fields, Mozgov, Williams, TD, Gallo, Chandler have all grown under Coach D and made valuable contributions.

I also think we're getting better defensively. It showed in the game against Atlanta. There was definitely a viable scheme. The players just have to commit consistently to executing it. It can take time for them to understand (especially young players) how much effort they need to give to win, while still remaining effective on offense, especially our type of O. I think its safe to say the short rotation definitely works against our players being able to give more effort on the defensive end. IMO this highlights the need for more solid acquisitions, as opposed to a coaching preference on the part of Mike D. Right now we simply don't have enough talent to lengthen the rotation w great effect. It will take time to put together a solid veteran team. We're obviously in a nascent stage of development team wise. Why hate so much on our coach when he doesn't have everything he will have, and needs, especially when he's shown he can develop and coach a young up and coming squad w all of the implicit ups and downs that will inevitably come? I think Mike D has earned our continued patience.

With a few smart acquisitions we can be a 50- 55 win team, even if we don't get Melo. Infact one can see quite easily why giving up too much to get Melo would work against being able to play D consistently; because we'd never be able to get enough good players to have the ideal 10 man rotation... A couple of solid pieces like a Granger maybe, or a D. Jordan, a Ridnour and we could do some thangs. This team is headed in the right direction. W enough talent, like any team, we can be elite. I also still believe our coach can win a championship playing this style. Again he just needs enough solid rotation playerz to sustain effort on the defensive end for stretches, game to game.

All of the above is very possible and likely IMO. Why waste time and hating when our coach doesn't have all of the pieces he needs yet? When were a contending,elite team I look forward to seeing whether or not your posts have a metamorphosis Red.

Feb 18, 2011, 12:23

KBlack25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl

Blind? I see very well. Heck I'm 20/20 with glasses. Let me tell you EXACTLY what I see.

1) Teams getting to the rim repeatedly with no defensive resistance
2) I've seen us take 5 charges all year (MAYBE) Not man on man charges but charges where someone steps in front of someone heading to the basket and takes one for the team.
3) A lack of defensive philosophy
4) A total lack of effort on defense most games
5) Absolutely no defensive adjustments in game (zones, half court traps) unless we're down a bunch at which point we'll press full court
6) A blatant disregard for utilizing our bigs, because of this we get HAMMERED in the paint
7) A coach that doesn't utilize some of his reserve players strengths
8) A coach that will bench you if you're offensively challenged and cant play his system
9) Because of his system he has to over use certain players in order for it to run at an optimum level.

I'm sure I'm missing some things. I'll add to them if necessary. Would you like to dispute anything that I'm seeing?

I dont hate MDA. I'd love to hire another head coach and have him as an offensive consultant if that means anything...

Maybe Blind wasn't the right word...

Idiotic was probably the one I was looking for.

I will address all of your concerns when you provide me the statistical algorithm to back up your "facts" that MDA had 60% and 80% confidence in Mozgov at certain points throughout the season. That or you can admit you made the whole thing up, massaging the facts, and are a bold-faced liar, and did not in fact present "facts" as you ranted and raved claiming you did in that thread.

Feb 18, 2011, 12:34

Clyde & The Pearl

Quote:

Originally Posted by KBlack25

Maybe Blind wasn't the right word...

Idiotic was probably the one I was looking for.

I will address all of your concerns when you provide me the statistical algorithm to back up your "facts" that MDA had 60% and 80% confidence in Mozgov at certain points throughout the season. That or you can admit you made the whole thing up, massaging the facts, and are a bold-faced liar, and did not in fact present "facts" as you ranted and raved claiming you did in that thread.

I'm sure after reading my post your first thought was these things cant be disputed. If you watch the Knicks regularly you know everything I said was spot on. No bias. Just basic observations. Like I said I dont hate MDA, its just that he's a flawed coach. I pointed out most of his flaws (which you choose to ignore) for you and this is your reply? Tracking back to a conversation we had 2 weeks ago. A conversation which also exposed you as an idiot.:teeth:

I'm truly glad you didn't try to dispute anything, because your bias for MDA would have truly been on display for all to see.

Too Easy!!!

Feb 18, 2011, 12:38

KBlack25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl

I'm sure after reading my post your first thought was these things cant be disputed. If you watch the Knicks regularly you know everything I said was spot on. No bias. Just basic observations. Like I said I dont hate MDA, its just that he's a flawed coach. I pointed out most of his flaws (which you choose to ignore) for you and this is your reply? Tracking back to a conversation we had 2 weeks ago. A conversation which also exposed you as an idiot.:teeth:

I'm truly glad you didn't try to dispute anything, because your bias for MDA would have truly been on display for all to see.

Too Easy!!!

Oh, I'll address them...I can and I will. But if you are going to hide from your own claims, why should I entertain your demands?

Explain to me the algorithm or admit you are a lying sack of **** moron. Your choice. Then, once you have shown you are willing to engage in debate (as I have and did successfully..by the way, which post exactly showed where I am a moron? The one where I exposed you for the fraud you are? Or the one where I ran circles around your debate to the point where you lost your cool, cursed at me and said I was a moron? So if you claim something, that now makes it true?), or admit you are wrong, and I will be happy to debunk your points. But I'm not going to waste my time with someone who won't reengage the topic, simply declare himself right, declare his opponent a moron with no real backing, and refuse to reassert or provide evidence for his own argument.

You have exposed yourself. In debates with me. In the debate with Trill. You don't consider other people's arguments. You have your opinion about D'Antoni, anyone that disagrees with you is apparently a "moron" even if they make legitimate arguments, and won't consider any facts that go against you (see: Your refusal to watch the video). You are perhaps the worst poster active in what you call "debate" right now on this website, besides maybe the one referenced in my signature.

Feb 18, 2011, 12:40

Clyde & The Pearl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red

Good post. Very succinct.

I see...
An improved roster
An improved record
And stats that show no improvement (except blocks) defensively
With the same limitations. And here we thought it was the players.

I want Jeff VanGundy, Stan VanGundy, and Ewing or Jackson as our staff. We get offense, defense, big coaching and to groom two homers, while completing the cycle. But I know this won't happen.

Thnx. Black is now trying to change the subject. A sure sign of defeat. :peace:

Feb 18, 2011, 12:45

KBlack25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red

Good post. Very succinct.

I see...
An improved roster
An improved record
And stats that show no improvement (except blocks) defensively
With the same limitations. And here we thought it was the players.

I want Jeff VanGundy, Stan VanGundy, and Ewing or Jackson as our staff. We get offense, defense, big coaching and to groom two homers, while completing the cycle. But I know this won't happen.

I have asked this before: What evidence do we have of Ewing or Jackson's accumen? In terms of Ewing, I have seen D12 remain pretty limited offensively until he worked out with Hakeem this offseason. I don't really have much to go on outside of SVG's conjecture that Ewing is all that good. A friend of mine, a Magic fan, said he wants Ewing fired and that any team "does not want" Ewing on the coaching staff. I know it's not a terribly reliable source, but as a guy who watches the Magic on a nightly basis, I think he has a better idea than we do.

Feb 18, 2011, 12:57

Red

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronoranina

The JV coach strikes again..

Shouldn't we let the season play out a bit more and then judge. I think it would give us all more of a basis to draw conclusions. It's still too early to make threads like this.

Based on what I've seen so far, I think its safe to say the season has been pretty successful. We're currently a sixth seed and we've developed our young talent to various degrees, which has shown on court. Fields, Mozgov, Williams, TD, Gallo, Chandler have all grown under Coach D and made valuable contributions.

I also think we're getting better defensively. It showed in the game against Atlanta. There was definitely a viable scheme. The players just have to commit consistently to executing it. It can take time for them to understand (especially young players) how much effort they need to give to win, while still remaining effective on offense, especially our type of O. I think its safe to say the short rotation definitely works against our players being able to give more effort on the defensive end. IMO this highlights the need for more solid acquisitions, as opposed to a coaching preference on the part of Mike D. Right now we simply don't have enough talent to lengthen the rotation w great effect. It will take time to put together a solid veteran team. We're obviously in a nascent stage of development team wise. Why hate so much on our coach when he doesn't have everything he will have, and needs, especially when he's shown he can develop and coach a young up and coming squad w all of the implicit ups and downs that will inevitably come? I think Mike D has earned our continued patience.

With a few smart acquisitions we can be a 50- 55 win team, even if we don't get Melo. Infact one can see quite easily why giving up too much to get Melo would work against being able to play D consistently; because we'd never be able to get enough good players to have the ideal 10 man rotation... A couple of solid pieces like a Granger maybe, or a D. Jordan, a Ridnour and we could do some thangs. This team is headed in the right direction. W enough talent, like any team, we can be elite. I also still believe our coach can win a championship playing this style. Again he just needs enough solid rotation playerz to sustain effort on the defensive end for stretches, game to game.

All of the above is very possible and likely IMO. Why waste time and hating when our coach doesn't have all of the pieces he needs yet? When were a contending,elite team I look forward to seeing whether or not your posts have a metamorphosis Red.

I can respect that but...

IF we acquire better players is that an indication that we could play D inspite of MDA's system?

And you said you could see how a short rotation hinders defense, but isn't that a staple of coach?

Also, will it matter to you if we make the playoffs but get bounced year after year?
Yes considering our past, it may be an improvement, but isn't the goal to win a chip? I mean you actually think we/MDA can keep the "we need more talent" thing up for over 4 years?
When some dificiencies have been on display over coaches career? By your assertion, coach's system can't be analyzed til' we make it to the NBA finals and lose. Then analyzing has validity?

So more time = better players.
Better players should = better results.

If we intmate the players, then we would have to field a better team than the historic PHX teams to achieve better results and defensively they weren't good enough.

What are the odds fans and the FO gives coach enough time to do that? Slim to none imo. If only coach could show an ability to overachieve with what he has ON BOTH ENDS OF THE COURT, then we could say the potential is there to achieve with the minimum.

When we argue (for lack of a better word) that more and more better players are needed (especally when some old players do better in different systems), then isn't that an indication in and of itself. I mean we will practically go through two overhauls just to get a low seed and early exit?

That's a bit much imo. But yeah we are doing better just not in the areas needed to really make noise. A minor adjustement in approach could do MDA wonders.

Feb 18, 2011, 13:00

Clyde & The Pearl

Oh, I'll address them...I can and I will. But if you are going to hide from your own claims, why should I entertain your demands?

Explain to me the algorithm or admit you are a lying sack of **** moron. Your choice. Then, once you have shown you are willing to engage in debate (as I have and did successfully..by the way, which post exactly showed where I am a moron? The one where I exposed you for the fraud you are? Or the one where I ran circles around your debate to the point where you lost your cool, cursed at me and said I was a moron? So if you claim something, that now makes it true?), or admit you are wrong, and I will be happy to debunk your points. But I'm not going to waste my time with someone who won't reengage the topic, simply declare himself right, declare his opponent a moron with no real backing, and refuse to reassert or provide evidence for his own argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KBlack25

You have exposed yourself. In debates with me. In the debate with Trill. You don't consider other people's arguments. You have your opinion about D'Antoni, anyone that disagrees with you is apparently a "moron" even if they make legitimate arguments, and won't consider any facts that go against you (see: Your refusal to watch the video). You are perhaps the worst poster active in what you call "debate" right now on this website, besides maybe the one referenced in my signature.

I've exposed myself as your daddy. I own you. Your claims are ridiculous. You claim one thing then on the exact same issue with a different player you do a complete 180. You're biased to the point you dont see obvious, basic trends in the way Mike D handles his team and players. Why watch a vid of a game where MDA showed concern about defense in one game when his statistical track record as a head coach points out that defense is tertiary at best?

I don't profess to be this great know it all poster. I post my thoughts, likes dislikes. I dont have any biases one way or another. If I thought MDA was doing an overall excellent job I'd express that. Watch:

MDA is doing an excellent job with the team on the offensive end. The stats also support this claim. I dont need to watch a vid to enhance my thought process. It is what it is.

Feb 18, 2011, 13:07

Red

Quote:

Originally Posted by KBlack25

I have asked this before: What evidence do we have of Ewing or Jackson's accumen? In terms of Ewing, I have seen D12 remain pretty limited offensively until he worked out with Hakeem this offseason. I don't really have much to go on outside of SVG's conjecture that Ewing is all that good. A friend of mine, a Magic fan, said he wants Ewing fired and that any team "does not want" Ewing on the coaching staff. I know it's not a terribly reliable source, but as a guy who watches the Magic on a nightly basis, I think he has a better idea than we do.

Hey what can I say, that's why he's an assistant. He has room for improvement. But that was me fantasizing, and mostly a karma move, as was Jax.

And D12 looks improved to me, be it Ewing or whoever. Besides JVG heads the D, his bro the O. Pat is just another assistant.

JVG whole purpose was to design and implement a defense to stop the triangle and P&R. I like that approach, because I believe once someone sets the benchmark or is the best

You gotta beat the best. And he overachieved with that/those rosters. Aim for the best and design a system to combat it. I wish coach had that ability.

Feb 18, 2011, 13:33

KBlack25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl

I've exposed myself as your daddy. I own you. Your claims are ridiculous. You claim one thing then on the exact same issue with a different player you do a complete 180. You're biased to the point you dont see obvious, basic trends in the way Mike D handles his team and players. Why watch a vid of a game where MDA showed concern about defense in one game when his statistical track record as a head coach points out that defense is tertiary at best?

LMFAO - nobody on this board outside of Red has any respect for you.

I assume you are referring to A.Randolph v. J.Hill in your post, and I already explained the difference in opinion, which I am sure you didn't read (hence, proving my point about your joke of an existence on this board):

They are different players with different histories on a different roster with a different depth chart, on a team with different goals - hence the difference in opinion.

So now you only post opinions? What happened to "I only post facts" that you asserted in other threads, conjoined with your interesting coach-player-confidence statistical output?

Why would you want to watch the video? I don't know, as a fan of the Knicks I want to watch the video and learn as much as I can about the team because it makes my knowledge of the team, the NBA and the game even a little bit more well rounded. I am interested in learning and viewing things from different perspectives...you obviously are not.

Feb 18, 2011, 13:37

KBlack25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red

Hey what can I say, that's why he's an assistant. He has room for improvement. But that was me fantasizing, and mostly a karma move, as was Jax.

And D12 looks improved to me, be it Ewing or whoever. Besides JVG heads the D, his bro the O. Pat is just another assistant.

JVG whole purpose was to design and implement a defense to stop the triangle and P&R. I like that approach, because I believe once someone sets the benchmark or is the best

You gotta beat the best. And he overachieved with that/those rosters. Aim for the best and design a system to combat it. I wish coach had that ability.

D12 is interesting to me (this goes off on a tangent), he has been better this season after working with Hakeem but I think maybe D12 isn't what everyone wants/would like him to be (especially after the dunk contest).

He is a freakish athlete (as are most successful straight-from-high-school players), but the fact is he might just be an insanely athletic, taller version of Ben Wallace. He grabs boards, blocks shots, can get some easy buckets. There's nothing wrong with that...but I think it's entirely possible that the offensive game won't really come along (besides using his sheer size to dominate people) like we all wanted it to, as fans of the NBA.

I would love to have JVG back but from what I see, he looks pretty set on being an analyst for a while. I respect SVG as a coach, I hate him as a person though. Not that I know him personally, but his quotes in the media and (I know a pet-peeve-ish thing to say) his lack of wearing a tie to games just bother me.

Feb 18, 2011, 13:49

Clyde & The Pearl

Quote:

Originally Posted by KBlack25

LMFAO - nobody on this board outside of Red has any respect for you.

I assume you are referring to A.Randolph v. J.Hill in your post, and I already explained the difference in opinion, which I am sure you didn't read (hence, proving my point about your joke of an existence on this board):

They are different players with different histories on a different roster with a different depth chart, on a team with different goals - hence the difference in opinion.

So now you only post opinions? What happened to "I only post facts" that you asserted in other threads, conjoined with your interesting coach-player-confidence statistical output?

Why would you want to watch the video? I don't know, as a fan of the Knicks I want to watch the video and learn as much as I can about the team because it makes my knowledge of the team, the NBA and the game even a little bit more well rounded. I am interested in learning and viewing things from different perspectives...you obviously are not.

Respect on a message board is the least of my worries. Being that message board respect is all you get in life I'm sure it means a lot to you. Enjoy it. It can be fleeting.

Ya, Ya J Hill was a lottery pick and AR wasn't yada yada yada. Despite the fact that AR had somewhat proven himself in the NBA. :wtf:

Being the most knowledgeable fan on this message board isn't my goal. That vid you want me so desperately to watch wouldnt sway my opinion about MDA at all. Know what will? Seeing this team coached defensively the right way. When that happens I'll try to be the first to post the changes I see.

What exactly do you see with this team defensively? Try to address the points I made. I'm tired of the dick swinging contest with you so try to address the points I made about your FAV coach. Otherwise I gotta cut this session short...

Feb 18, 2011, 13:52

KBlack25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl

Respect on a message board is the least of my worries. Being that message board respect is all you get in life I'm sure it means a lot to you. Enjoy it. It can be fleeting.

Ya, Ya J Hill was a lottery pick and AR wasn't yada yada yada. Despite the fact that AR had somewhat proven himself in the NBA. :wtf:

Being the most knowledgeable fan on this message board isn't my goal. That vid you want me so desperately to watch wouldnt sway my opinion about MDA at all. Know what will? Seeing this team coached defensively the right way. When that happens I'll try to be the first to post the changes I see.

What exactly do you see with this team defensively? Try to address the points I made. I'm tired of the dick swinging contest with you so try to address the points I made about your FAV coach. Otherwise I gotta cut this session short...

Quid pro quo.

You address the other thread, I'll address yours. As of right now I am the most recent of the two of us to respond to the other's points...ball is in your court.

Feb 18, 2011, 13:54

Clyde & The Pearl

Quote:

Originally Posted by KBlack25

Quid pro quo.

You address the other thread, I'll address yours. As of right now I am the most recent of the two of us to respond to the other's points...ball is in your court.