I know, right? I did several workshops and trainings and got certified. Most of the training was conducted on 2 and 3 group Aurelias, OMG, what a phantastic machine! The Appia might be as close as I can get at home.

I am looking at an Isomac machine (Viper. It's the best I can afford.) and would like to know how the reliability of this brand is stacking up these days. There seem to be plenty of negative reviews out there but quite a few of them are several years old.

I know, right? I did several workshops and trainings and got certified. Most of the training was conducted on 2 and 3 group Aurelias, OMG, what a phantastic machine! The Appia might be as close as I can get at home.

How long (time) can you go until the 4 gal. jug is filled up? I agree this sounds like a doable alternative. The return line drain was always a concern for me. A kitchen at home isn't designed to purpose as a cafe counter would be (now, if I had my way ...), and routing a decent supply and drain line isn't that simple.

Of course it will depend on your use but my use is 4 double shots and steaming 8 oz of milk every morning 7 days a week. I flush after every pull to clear spent grounds from the screen and I do my cooling flush into my cup to warm the cup then dump into the sink when ready to make coffee. In my use pattern, I get about 3 weeks between draining the bottle. A few teaspoons or so of household bleach keeps any nasty things from growing in the bottle and causing a foul smell.

In real life, my name isWayne P.Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

I am looking at an Isomac machine (Viper. It's the best I can afford.) and would like to know how the reliability of this brand is stacking up these days. There seem to be plenty of negative reviews out there but quite a few of them are several years old.

There isn't much support of Isomac in the states, so I don't know if you'll get much of a response here, although I see reviews as recently as two years ago saying stay away from the cheaper Isomacs. A reasonable entry level machine here is the Le'Lit PL041, which looks to be in your price range. You'll need an espresso capable grinder and the Le'lit grinder is loud and slow, but capable. If you don't have a grinder, it's usually offered as a package deal.

Your first 2 machines are the same as on my list currently, but the third on mine is the Izzo Alex Duetto 3.0. This is a good thread to learn from. For me, in my current kitchen putting in water lines would be difficult, but we're planning on moving in the future and maybe then. For that reason, a machine that can be converted from tank to tankless is appealing.

I plan on following this thread too since I'm looking at some of the machines on this list. The Nuova Simonelli though I'm looking at is the Musica, direct connect. Which for some reason, even though it only lists for $250 US more than the base version on the NS official price list, often goes for *$700* more in actual retail. I'm guessing demand might have something to do with that so the distributor doesn't give much of a break on it.

I plan on following this thread too since I'm looking at some of the machines on this list. The Nuova Simonelli though I'm looking at is the Musica, direct connect. Which for some reason, even though it only lists for $250 US more than the base version on the NS official price list, often goes for *$700* more in actual retail. I'm guessing demand might have something to do with that so the distributor doesn't give much of a break on it.

Something you may want to consider: the Musica (from what I recall) has a vibration pump, and is noisy. That is something that bugged me to no end on my Vibiemme, too. The Rocket with rotary pump seems to be whisper quiet, as is the Appia. To my ears, the new Vibiemme with rotary is also much noisier compared to the other two.

Leaning towards he Rocket for now, because of option to use as tank machine with option to direct plumb.

Hey Noobie, I went to my favorite coffee shop in Vancouver last weekend and they had a 3 group Aurelia II with a Mythos Plus. The barista was getting very nervous at how longingly I was drooling over their setup.

OP, I don't think you have to worry too much about the length of he hose. Keep in mind it's already making quite a long journey from the main on your street to the faucet. Ten extra feet or more won't make much of a difference.

I can relate, I drool over lots of the nice machines we have in this area. I make baristas nervous when I move around the counter so I can watch the pull. I freak them out by making them let me taste my pull before they add the milk. My husband pretends he doesn't know me and stands very far away from me while I am ordering. I have no idea why he does that....

I don't mind the vibe pump that much. I would rather have an appia but really would not turn down Musica. I have had the one model down from Musica for almost exactly one year and I found it to be a great machine. Sturdy, reliable and built like a tank. That is a very good family to be from. I think I could get many good years out of this machine with very little problems and everything will be pretty easy to fix.

The most important thing is to get value for you money and enjoy what you have. Lusting after the next upgrade right away means to me you did not do something right. Either you did not spend enough time thinking about your choice or you don't appreciate what you have. I appreciate Oscar every morning for giving me easy trouble free espresso with no sink shots once I dial the grind in. I am blowing the doors off coffee shops around me and I am very happy every morning with a nice espresso. And I don't think I could beat the price for the value and service I am getting out of him.

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