Well for those who poopoo McMahon he has never had the opportunities that Harrington has been given. For a team as inconsistent as the lions can be we need a multidimensional QB which Harrington is off course not. If the knock on McMahon is inaccuracy let him prove it. Personally I think he is more of Moochs style QB anyways.

Since Brian didn't comment I think I will. McMahon is more one dimensional than Joey. Joey can throw passes (well except for the last 3 games) and has even lead our team in rushing once this season = 2 dimensions. Mike can run but can't pass = 1 dimension. Mikes stats over the last three previous years declined significantly each year - Joeys have gone up each year.

Mikes QB rating the last three years 2001 (69.9), 2002 (52.4) and 2003 (12.7). Now that's what I consider dropping fast, not going from 95 to 88. And after careful extrapolation I have figured out that if Mike started the rest of 2004 his QB rating would be -39.7. I'm starting to think Super Bowl now!

I watched Mike in the preseason play with the 1st, 2nd and 3rd stringers - my assessment is he doesn't have it - not even close. Even when he was out with the Lions first team against a 2nd or 3rd string defensive unit he was terrible.

I'm glad Mooch is stating that he is considering pulling Joey, hopefully that will light a fire under his badonkadonk. The fact that he is taking reps away from Joey in practice though seems to be a bad move when Joey needs the work more than ever.

I'm convinced that McMahon and Mirer are not viable options. I am questioning whether Joey is or not. I want to see more. Mike and Rick are on one-year contracts. Joey is getting big bucks the next few years so his development or lack of is a major decision.

The Chargers gave up on Brees after his 3rd year. Now he is making a run for the playoffs/pro bowl and SD will have nothing to show for it when he is playing for another team next year. I just don't want to see the Lions in a similar situation after we have been looking for a QB since the 1950's.

I think you gotta let Joey continue to go out and prove he has it or prove he is useless. Then they take one of 3 routes:

1) He has it - get a capable backup in camp either through the draft or FA
2) He doesn't have it - use a high draft pick and use it on a QB or get a young QB FA (there aren't many so think Brees)
3) Undecided - use a mid to late round pick on a QB and pick up a low-cost, decent older FA QB

In any case, McMahon and Mirer have to go. That's part of the problem, there is no viable backup option in Detroit so we are tied to the fate of Harrington this year.

ps - welcome Winston93 - glad to have you on the LB message boards...

pss - this topic always fires up great conversation!

psss - is Charlie Batch gonna be available?

November 16th, 2004, 6:17 pm

Brian

QB Coach

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 8:33 pmPosts: 3222

theAlphaMale wrote:

You forgot to tell me about how stellar my post too was Brian...remember that huh???

It was stellar

Hey, I think that was my 300th post, lol

November 17th, 2004, 12:13 am

Brian

QB Coach

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 8:33 pmPosts: 3222

You have to remember, that when McMahon has played, he hasn't been prepared for the start, has been rushed in there because of Harrington's poor performances, and hasn't been getting the reps that Joey does with the first team offense. I think that I am more anti-Joey than pro-Mike. I don't think McMahon is ever going to amount to anything in this league, but I feel the same for Joey. He just doesn't have the attributes you look for in a QB.

I still believe that we can't use a high draft pick on the QB decision, we shouldn't take one before the third round. This is because of the salary that the position would account for. With Joey making around 4.5 million the next three seasons, we have to pay that contract off, and he has to still be on the roster.

LOL, Batch is actually a free agent, wonder if we will go after him

November 17th, 2004, 12:25 am

CMU Black&Blue

Water Boy

Joined: November 15th, 2004, 1:05 amPosts: 5

Saying Roy shouldnt have to make great catches is like saying Randy Moss shoudlnt have to make great catches? Why does Joey have to be dead on accurate when other QB's in the league have star recievers making plays for them all the time. Half of Brett Favres deep passes are just jump balls that the GB recievers win. Look at McNabb and TO. Randy Moss and Daunte. Marc Bulger/Kurt Warner and Torry Holt and Issac Bruce. Thats just a dumn point.

November 17th, 2004, 2:14 am

California Kid

Varsity Benchwarmer

Joined: November 15th, 2004, 4:05 amPosts: 203

I personally think the Lions best chance to salvage this season would be for Joey to turn his game around. If he doesn't start playing better this week, then sure give Mike a look. I'm just not that optimistic on Mike judging on how he played in the preseason. I don't really favor one guy over the other. It's just my guess that Harrington, playing the way he did in some of the wins they had this season, would be the best the Lions can do at QB right now.

I was wondering if some of you who know a little more about the team could help me out.

-How big of a cap hit will the Lions take if they cut Harrington in the offseason?

-Isn't McMahon on a one year contract?

-Does anyone know the list of QB's who will be FA's next year?

Let's hope the Lions can find a way to win this week regardless of who's throwing it.

November 17th, 2004, 5:30 am

NotAFairWeatherFan

Water Boy

Joined: November 15th, 2004, 11:37 amPosts: 5

CMU Black&Blue wrote:

Saying Roy shouldnt have to make great catches is like saying Randy Moss shoudlnt have to make great catches? Why does Joey have to be dead on accurate when other QB's in the league have star recievers making plays for them all the time. Half of Brett Favres deep passes are just jump balls that the GB recievers win. Look at McNabb and TO. Randy Moss and Daunte. Marc Bulger/Kurt Warner and Torry Holt and Issac Bruce. Thats just a dumn point.

Joey has to be accurate, so we can win.... Roy williams and our other recievers should make great catches.. but on good passes. And a lob up pass by brett farve is alot different than a bullet over the middle where a slight messup can cause a huge hit/play for the defence, even get one of our receivers injured.

And Btw joey is a pro nfl QB we are PAYING him to be accurate. If not y dont we all just go out for nfl qaurterback since we dont need accuracy anymore.

There is no way that the Lions will cut Harrington. I think things will work out. I can rember QBS that we have had in the past who were a lot worse than Harrington. He is not that bad. Think of how good Harrington would be if he played for the Steelers and Big Ben playing was for us. Ben would be awful! he would not have won a game yet. He is in a good running system that doesnt ask him to do to much. Harrington situation is he is on a not so good offensive team and being asked to too much with to little.

so have a coke and a smile and be happy The Detroit Lions are playing like the Lions that iam use to pulling for, not that phony team that was winning at the beging of the season

November 17th, 2004, 11:18 am

NotAFairWeatherFan

Water Boy

Joined: November 15th, 2004, 11:37 amPosts: 5

lionsfanva wrote:

There is no way that the Lions will cut Harrington. I think things will work out. I can rember QBS that we have had in the past who were a lot worse than Harrington. He is not that bad. Think of how good Harrington would be if he played for the Steelers and Big Ben playing was for us. Ben would be awful! he would not have won a game yet. He is in a good running system that doesnt ask him to do to much. Harrington situation is he is on a not so good offensive team and being asked to too much with to little.

so have a coke and a smile and be happy The Detroit Lions are playing like the Lions that iam use to pulling for, not that phony team that was winning at the beging of the season

wow im speechless

November 17th, 2004, 11:19 am

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 9645Location: Dallas

California Kid wrote:

I personally think the Lions best chance to salvage this season would be for Joey to turn his game around. If he doesn't start playing better this week, then sure give Mike a look. I'm just not that optimistic on Mike judging on how he played in the preseason. I don't really favor one guy over the other. It's just my guess that Harrington, playing the way he did in some of the wins they had this season, would be the best the Lions can do at QB right now.

I was wondering if some of you who know a little more about the team could help me out.

-How big of a cap hit will the Lions take if they cut Harrington in the offseason?

-Isn't McMahon on a one year contract?

-Does anyone know the list of QB's who will be FA's next year?

Let's hope the Lions can find a way to win this week regardless of who's throwing it.

I'm going to answer some of your questions on a new thread California Kid...

November 17th, 2004, 1:52 pm

theAlphaMale

Site Admin

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 1:25 amPosts: 4920Location: Hills of Auburn

CMU Black&Blue wrote:

Saying Roy shouldnt have to make great catches is like saying Randy Moss shoudlnt have to make great catches? Why does Joey have to be dead on accurate when other QB's in the league have star recievers making plays for them all the time. Half of Brett Favres deep passes are just jump balls that the GB recievers win. Look at McNabb and TO. Randy Moss and Daunte. Marc Bulger/Kurt Warner and Torry Holt and Issac Bruce. Thats just a dumn point.

I am not saying at all that they will never make great catches but I am tired of 3&out. I watch "subpar" QBs make those 3rd downs whenever they need it against the Lions and I see Joeys now infamouse 5-7 yarder at someones feet. That is a total joke...he is not throwing many catchable balls.

Points vs McMahon...He has never had Rodgers of last year or Roy of this year like Harrington. He get's the reps and the backing. Joey has gotten the Golden Boy treatment without the results. He teases us with having a good game or two a season.

Pablo wrote:

Since Brian didn't comment I think I will. McMahon is more one dimensional than Joey. Joey can throw passes (well except for the last 3 games) and has even lead our team in rushing once this season = 2 dimensions. Mike can run but can't pass = 1 dimension. Mikes stats over the last three previous years declined significantly each year - Joeys have gone up each year.

Mikes QB rating the last three years 2001 (69.9), 2002 (52.4) and 2003 (12.7). Now that's what I consider dropping fast, not going from 95 to 88. And after careful extrapolation I have figured out that if Mike started the rest of 2004 his QB rating would be -39.7. I'm starting to think Super Bowl now!

Mike 69.9, 52.4, 12.7Joey 59.9, 63.9, 81.2

That is a sign of Mikes decreased play time and Joeys increased opportunities. Games started tell the tale though?Joey with 37 starts and Mike with?.7. That is hardly a chance IMO. Getting thrown cold in a game I would imagine is much more difficult than being warmed up and prepped and having practiced as the starter all season long.

And pardon me while I laugh but Joey being 2 dimensional is funny?the rushing stat was more an indication that our running game is failing?prolly because of our laughable passing game. Joey is not a runner?and even according to you his supposed 1 dimension seems to be completely missing.

Pablo wrote:

I watched Mike in the preseason play with the 1st, 2nd and 3rd stringers - my assessment is he doesn't have it - not even close. Even when he was out with the Lions first team against a 2nd or 3rd string defensive unit he was terrible.

You wanted Kellen Winslow?

Pablo wrote:

I'm glad Mooch is stating that he is considering pulling Joey, hopefully that will light a fire under his badonkadonk. The fact that he is taking reps away from Joey in practice though seems to be a bad move when Joey needs the work more than ever.

I'm convinced that McMahon and Mirer are not viable options. I am questioning whether Joey is or not. I want to see more. Mike and Rick are on one-year contracts. Joey is getting big bucks the next few years so his development or lack of is a major decision.

Joey is in his 3rd year and we are losing. I cannot really think of even 1 game that I would ever really attribute to Joey winning it for us. He has had some good games but that is typically when the defense is doing great and everyone is clicking.

Pablo wrote:

The Chargers gave up on Brees after his 3rd year. Now he is making a run for the playoffs/pro bowl and SD will have nothing to show for it when he is playing for another team next year. I just don't want to see the Lions in a similar situation after we have been looking for a QB since the 1950's.

I think you gotta let Joey continue to go out and prove he has it or prove he is useless. Then they take one of 3 routes:

1) He has it - get a capable backup in camp either through the draft or FA2) He doesn't have it - use a high draft pick and use it on a QB or get a young QB FA (there aren't many so think Brees)3) Undecided - use a mid to late round pick on a QB and pick up a low-cost, decent older FA QB

For every one that pulls a year like Brees there are many more that don?t. In fact the league is cluttered with empty promises like Joey.

All I hear is give Joey a chance like he is some sort of sap that needs our support. He is a pro baller that needs to step up?and has needed to for some time. He is not getting it done. If we are gonna hand out passes for chances it Mikeys turn but it may be a bit late. I predict Joey will continue to tag us along with a good game here and there until we realize ala Tim Couch that he is just a backup. I would almost rather him suck then this tease though

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