Originally posted by Fritz Lang
I'm not quit sure about the moon being split in half but one thing i know for sure is that it is HOLLOW if some ones interested i can get more
information on it

To know for sure you would have had to have gone to the moon and tested the theory by drilling or some similar method. Knowing for sure means it is
not a theory but proved fact. Are you positive you know for SURE????

I too would like to see the proof as I can not even imagine any evidence to support a theory, let alone fact.

Now I'm sure this was posted somewhere else in this thread but it seems to have gotten forgotten in all the magical, mystical religious debating;
don't you think that Mo and his muckers witnessed a partial eclipse of the moon?

Surely one of the scientific buffs here on ATS would be able to check to see if one of these occurred around about the relevant time in the arabian
peninsula?

Wouldn't that provide a little bit of scientific evidence for the events reported in The Koran?

Since the foundation for believing this is, in fact, dealing with the muslim religion this is probably a bit touchy. Who am I to say that their
beliefs are wrong?

Scientifically, we know that it isn't. We know the moon isn't split in half for a few reasons that come to mind immediately.

1-I believe I remember reading that during some moon cycles, the moon does expose and illuminate small portions of the far side that make it more
visible to us on earth.(proving that it is not half of a moon?). Many people refer to the Far side of the moon as the "dark side" of the moon. But
there is no such thing.
While only one side of the moon would be visible from earth, the shadow "behind" the moon (the other side is facing the sun) can, in fact, be on the
side facing towards us. we can see the dark side, we cannot see the far side.

2- Luna 3 (russian spacecraft) was the first spacecraft to capture detail on the far side of the moon. Proving that it really is there.

3- Isn't The rotationary period of the moon also a clue to it's true shape? Over the millions of years after the moon's creation, the moon's
rotationary period "normalised", if you will, to equal more or less one orbit period around the earth. The moon's orbit is slightly eliptical,
however, you can only guess what that orbit would look like with half of a moon.

This is a nursery rhyme I found on a Nasa website and thought I would share. I don't know what it is from though:

I see the moon,
The moon sees me,
God bless the moon,
And God bless me.
- Nursery Rhyme

Muslims believe that the last prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) performed the miracle of splitting the Moon. He cracked/split the Moon in two
halves by pointing his finger at it than joined/wielded it back using his finger.

But now its being proven with latest pictures from NASA of the Moon that it has been split and joined back together. It shows the two halves
combined.

......

I don't see it.. and I don't have the time to watch a Muslim theology movie..

The moon was not split in half..... ever.... especially not by some dudes finger.

Muslims believe that the last prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) performed the miracle of splitting the Moon. He cracked/split the Moon in two
halves by pointing his finger at it than joined/wielded it back using his finger.

But now its being proven with latest pictures from NASA of the Moon that it has been split and joined back together. It shows the two halves
combined.

......

I don't see it.. and I don't have the time to watch a Muslim theology movie..

The moon was not split in half..... ever.... especially not by some dudes finger.

Muslims believe that the last prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) performed the miracle of splitting the Moon. He cracked/split the Moon in two
halves by pointing his finger at it than joined/wielded it back using his finger.

But now its being proven with latest pictures from NASA of the Moon that it has been split and joined back together. It shows the two halves
combined.

HA LOL OMG that is that craziest tale I ever heard.

Lets see if I can do that.....Abra kadabra..... (Focus's on splitting the moon.) Dude all your gonna get is a splitting headache for believing that
tall tale. Come back down to earth.

Thats like saying "Baracka H Obama Jr" isn't a Muslim.

Give me a break.

I understand people have different views on certain things but really come on use your head find your own truth instead of believing in fish tales.

The moon was not split in half..... ever.... especially not by some dudes finger.

What you need to do is think past our current science. One thing historical religious figures all have in common is the ability to manipulate the
natural world. If we took what we can do now, back to then, it would seem as if we were doing magic and divine acitivities as well.

Even 300 years ago, what we do today, would've been called impossible, witchcraft or even angelic intervention. Don't throw the baby out with the
bathwater.

History is a witness to persecutions of scientists by the medieval Church and the consequent branding of all religions to be anti-science. This is
however not the case with Islam. For Islam is that religion, which emphasizes on the need to acquire knowledge form the 'Cradle to the grave'. The
Prophet of Islam considered the ink of a scholar more precious than the blood of a martyr. He did not discriminate between men and women in this
regard and said, "Acquisition of knowledge is compulsory for every believing man and every believing woman. Although the number of literate people in
the whole of Arabia at the dawn of Islam could be counted on the fingers of one's hands, the succeeding decades witnessed an enormous upsurge in
scientific development and learning. So much so that the Muslim intellectuals and scientists surpassed even the ancient Romans and Greeks. Modern
science owes everything to the knowledge that they obtained from the Muslims.

Knowledge in this field could not progress significantly until the microscope was discovered in the 17th century. "After it was possible to examine
cells under the microscope, it was reasoned in the 18th century that development resulted from growth and differentiation of embryonic cells."

In view of the above, after Dr. Moore had the opportunity to study certain statements in the Qur'an and statements of the Prophet (on whom be peace)
in the Hadith literature, he remarked, "I was amazed at the scientific accuracy of these statements which were made in the 7th century A.D."

He created you (all) from a single person: then created, of like nature, his mate; and he sent down for you eight head of cattle in pairs: He makes
you, in the wombs of your mothers, in stages, one after another, in three veils of darkness. Holy Qur'an (39:6)

Referring to above verse in the Quran, Dr. Moore says: "This verse from the Koran states that God makes you in the wombs of your mothers in stages,
one after another, within three veils of darkness." Then he explains his amazement: "The realization that the embryo develops in stages in the
uterus was not discussed or illustrated until the 15th century A.D.

"The staging of human embryos was not proposed until the 1940's, and the stages used nowadays were not adopted worldwide until a few years ago."

It is reasonable to interpret the three veils of darkness mentioned in the Koran as:

the mother's abdominal wall;
the wall of the uterus; and
the amniochorionic membrane composed of the fused amnion and chorion.
These three anatomical layers protect the embryo from external injury."
And certainly We created man of an extract of clay, Then We made him a small seed in a firm resting-place, Then We made the seed a clot, then We made
the clot a lump of flesh, then We made (in) the lump of flesh bones, then We clothed the bones with flesh, then We caused it to grow into another
creation, so blessed be Allah, the best of the creators. Then after that you will most surely die. Then surely on the day of resurrection you shall be
raised. Holy Qur'an (23:12-16)

Referring to the above verses in the Qur'an, Dr. Keith Moore says:

"This verse from the Koran states that God made you from a drop and then changed the drop into a leech-like structure which soon changed into a
chewed like substance that then took the shape of bone and was clothed with flesh."

To illustrate his point about the accuracy of the Qur'an, Dr. Moore lined up a picture of a leech and a picture of a human embryo at 24 days old to
show the striking similarity between the two. Similarly, he compared the human embryo at 28 days with a plasticine model of the embryo with teeth
marks deliberately impressed on it and found the two to be quite Similar.

Then did he become a leech-like clot; then did (Allah) make and fashion (him) in due proportion. Holy Qur'an (75:38)

And made his progeny from a quintessence of the nature of a fluid despised: Holy Qur'an (32:8)

Dr. Moore then turns his attention to the mention in the Qur'an (75:38) that humans are created from a nutfa, a tiny drop of fluid, which gushed
forth, and that God made the progeny of men from "an extraction of despised fluid (32:8)." He also refers to a hadith, which says: "Not from all
secretions is the child made." Then he comments:

"It is well established that only a few hundred of the several million sperms in the semen are able to pass through the uterus and surround the ovum
in the uterine tube."

Verily We created Man from a drop of mingled sperm, in order to try him: So We gave him (the gifts), of Hearing and Sight. Holy Qur'an (76:2)

Surah (76:2) says that a human being is created from a mixed drop. Dr. Moore comments: "The mixed drop mentioned in the Koran could refer to the
mixture of small quantity of sperms with the oocyte and its associated follicular fluid. There are the other references in the Koran to the origin of
man from a small quantity of 'mingled fluids', undoubtedly the male and female sexual secretions. As we know a secondary oocyte is expelled from the
ovary during a process known as ovulation. The oocyte and the follicular fluid pass into the uterine tube, where, if coitus has occurred, they are
mixed with several hundred sperms. The resulting mixture (drop) composed of the ovum and the penetrating sperm, becomes the zygote or primordium of
the embryo."

Whereas the Qur'an had already mentioned this truth in the 7th century, Dr. Moore noted that one thousand years later, as late as the 17th century,
scientists held on to two misconceptions. Some believed that a tiny human being is contained in the sperm; others believed that it was contained in
the ovum, and in either case that the tiny human just simply grew larger. The scientist proved both of these ideas wrong. Spallanzani in the 18th
century when he "showed experimentally that both male and female sex products were necessary for the initiation of development."

From a sperm-drop: He hath created him, and then mouldeth him in due proportions; Holy Qur'an (80:19)

Turning to a new subject, Dr. Moore refers to Surah (80:19) and comments: "This verse from the Koran states that from this drop He (God) created him
and soon planned his future characteristics and features." Then he explained his amazement:

"The idea that development results from a genetic plan contained in the chromosomes of the zygote was not discovered until the end of 19th century.
The verse from the Koran clearly implies that the nutfa contains the plan or blueprint for the future characteristics and features of the developing
human being."

That He did create in pairs, male and female, From a seed when lodged (in its place); Holy Qur'an (53:45-46)

Then he mentions Surah (53:45-46) and says: "This verse states that either a male or a female will be created from the nutfa and that the sex of the
embryo is determined at the beginning." This piece of information in the Qur'an is way ahead of its time. "The realization that sex was determined
at fertilization was established about 60 years ago when the sex chromosomes were discovered," he says.

Your wives are a tilth for you, so go into your tilth when you like, and do good beforehand for yourselves, and be careful (of your duty) to Allah,
and know that you will meet Him, and give good news to the believers. Holy Qur'an (2:223)

There is more to marvel at. Dr. Moore explains that the blastocyst (the early embryo) implants in the uterus about 10 days after fertilization. Then
he compares this knowledge with what he finds in the Qur'an. "An understanding of the implantation process of the human blastocyst is also implied
in the Koran." Here Dr. Moore refers to Surah (2:223) where the act of sex is compared with cultivation. He says: "A tilth refers to the cultivation
of land and the comparison of implantation of the blastocyst to the planting of a seed is a very appropriate one. Just as soil covers the seed, the
uterine epithelium covers the implanted blastocyst. The blastocyst soon develops chrionic villi for acquiring nourishment from the maternal blood.
Similarly the embryo formed from the seed develops roots for acquiring nourishment from the soil."

And certainly We created man of an extract of clay, Then We made him a small seed in a firm resting-place, Then We made the seed a clot, then We made
the clot a lump of flesh, then We made (in) the lump of flesh bones, then We clothed the bones with flesh, then We caused it to grow into another
creation, so blessed be Allah, the best of the creators. Then after that you will most surely die. Then surely on the day of resurrection you shall be
raised. Holy Qur'an (23:12-16)

Looking again at Surah (23:12-16), Dr. Moore points out that the article thumma (meaning furthermore) "indicates that there is a lag or gap between
the nutfa stage and the leech like stage." How does that compare with modern scientific knowledge? Remarkably! Says Dr. Moore: "It is well
established that there is a lag or delay in the development of the embryo during the implantation...The agreement between the lag or gap in the
development mentioned in the Koran and the slow rate of change occurring during the second and third weeks is amazing. These details of human
development were not described until about 40 years ago."

O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection, (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot,
then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We may manifest (our power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest
in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes, then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of full strength; Holy Qur'an
(22:5)

Moving to Surah (22:5) Dr. Moore says: "this verse states that you are created from a chewed lump which is both differentiated and
undifferentiated." Then he says: "It is well established that the brain and the heart are only partially differentiated at the end of the fourth
week when the embryo resembles a chewed substance."

Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump; then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the
bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature. So blessed be Allah, the best to create! Holy Qur'an (23:14)

The sequence of stages mentioned in Surah (23:14) is strikingly accurate. "This verse states that out of the chewed lump, bones are made which are
clothed with muscles." Dr. Moore relates the conclusion of modern science: "After the chewed-like appearance, bones develop which are soon clothed
with muscles."

A hadith too is found to be remarkably accurate. The hadith states that God sends an angel to the developing child "to create its hearing, vision,
skin, flesh and bones." "The ears and the eyes begin to form in the fourth week", says Dr. Moore, "and are clearly visible at six weeks, 42 days
after the zygote or nutfa forms. Noting that in the hadith the angel asks God whether the child is male or female, Dr. Moore points out that the sex
of the child is not distinguishable at this stage. Males and females look alike at this stage and become clearly distinguishable only in the 12th
week. This he has clearly documented with the help of a diagram culled from his book the Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 3rd edn.,
1982.

Finally, Dr. Moore concludes: "The agreement I have found between statements in the Koran and sayings in the Hadith may help to close the gap between
science and religion which has existed for so many years."

All of this go to show that the Qur'an could not have been the product of the mind of Muhammad (on whom be peace) or any other human being living in
the 7th century. How could he access information that will not be discovered until the 18th-2Oth century? How could he or anyone else study the human
embryo in its very early stages without using a microscope? Impossible. But then the Qur'an must be from God as it claims. The Qur'an says that you
and every human being should consider this book with care. Had it been from anyone other than God, you would have found much discrepancy in it.

Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein much discrepancy. Holy Qur'an
(4:82)

I just don't understand why it is so important for you to comment on that? It does involve space in some respects, and you have not added to the
discussion. If it bothers you so, then please talk to a moderator, rather than just making an idle statement.

Mohammed most likely pointed at the Moon during a Half-Moon Phase, and then pointed again 15 Days Later. I would assume that is why Islam follows the
Lunar Calendar.

For a real showing of Religious accounts, try Moses and the Red Sea. Recently it has been found that the bottom of the Red Sea contains Egyptian
Chariots. I am 100% serious about this, and it truly backs the account of the Israelites.

I have always believed in not only being tolerant of other religions, but also accepting of them as well. However, I must admit that Islam seems to be
the least tolerant of others of any group currently present. Why can a Christian Church not expand into Islamic lands, and yet Mosques constantly
spread in Christian lands without protest? Why must so many Muslims refer to non-Muslims as "Infidels", yet Christians rarely speak of "Heathens"
or "Heretics" anymore? Why is it that Chrisitanity's head figure, the Pope reaches his hand out to all religions, Islam included, and talks nothing
but of Peace, and yet the Islamic High Council says peace is alright, as long as no one bad mouths Islam? A veiled threat?

Why at the Western Wall, a revered Jewish site, even the Strict Orthodox Jews allow Non-Jews to worship there, YET, at the Dome Of The Rock, a
holy-site to All three religions, You HAVE to be Muslims to even step foot inside. Hypocrisy?

I apologize if I have turned this thread into a religious debate, but I felt a certain relevancy. I still have respect for all beliefs, but it seems
that Islam as a whole shares these feelings the least.

And all those pedophile priests are catholic christian, all those rapists and murderes are christian, you see what Im saying?

It's not part of the religion to blow yourself up, infact its against the religion to kill yourself, its one of the biggest sins, remember just
because a few terrorists who claim to be muslim are crazy as hell, doesn't mean it has anything to do with the rest of normal muslims, you cant
generalize.

They are only a TINY part of over 1 BILLION! muslims, remember you only see bad things in the news, a one sided view.

[edit on 31-1-2008 by _Phoenix_]

Thats pretty funny a muslim complaining about pedophiles when mohammed married a six year old and being the gentleman that he was waited until she was
nine to have sex with her. I am sure that you will say this is not true but why should we believe you when Islam allows lying to unbelievers to defeat
them?

There are two forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, taqiyya and kitman. One of those circumstances is to
gain the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them.

The only religion that I can think of that promotes being untruthful is Islam

The only religion that I can think of that promotes being untruthful is Islam

Actually you have your facts and understand wrong. The quotes you referred to above, they are not from the Quraan.. and I dont know where you got them
from as you provided NO references. Also, people misintrepret the Quraan all the time for their own personal gain as well as the Hadith. The idea of
allowing lying under certain conditions (which I am aware of, one is to prevent two people from fighting each other, a good reason nonetheless), would
ONLY be in a case of War, when fighting another army. This does not mean to do this everyday to anyone you meet, its a strategic application. Its hard
to explain when people are taking an offensive approach to what is known to be a Peaceful Religion. Islam brought about peace at a time when people
were burying their daughters alive and treating their women like crap.

And for the millionth time... Islam is not what you see in Iraq or Afghanistan after we bombed them and killed and raped their daughters, fathers,
uncles, aunts, etc,..

If someone did that to your mother, your first reaction would be to want to kill that person or seek justice against that person. So if you want to
learn about a Religion, you CANNOT look to see how people who have been Occupied and Bombed for NO reason are behaving and label the religion with
that. Its cruel and unfair. When Israel murdered thousands of Lebanese Christians and Muslims, no one said the Jewish Religion is a Terrorist one, yet
Israel symbolizes the jewish state? This is Irrational and unfair thinking for your own personal reason to want to hate.

I am muslim and I WILL TELL YOU what my religion says, so dont tell me your wicked intrepretation of it.
1. Muslims are NOT allowed to kill ANYONE, unless, they are being attacked on their homeland and are being Opressed or Occupied. So some of what you
call Terrorism, Islam calls Self Defense. And some of what you call Terrorism, we ALSO call Terrorism (blowing up and killing civilians- this is wrong
all the way and we strongly believe this!) Iraqis are called Insurgents/Terrorists for fighting for their freedom, they didnt attack us! We went for
their Oil remember?
2. Muslims DO NOT hate JEWS or Christians or ANYONE... please lets discuss this because you will fall on your face if you try to say we do. bring it
on please!
3. Muslims are not Terrorists.
4. Muslims have been in North America since it was established.
5. If Muslims were terrorists, then you would already be dead. thats is a fact... there are 4 Billion of us and growing, so get used to us and
understand us for what we really are, not what FOX and CNN say we are.
6. If you ever MET a Muslim, you would know we are some of the most Hospitable people on this planet. but ofcourse with your paranoia you will think
we are just being nice to show you ..yet we think otherwise?!!
7. We have our beliefs and we dont come and tell you that we are right and you are wrong. Religion is between man and God, so leave it to God to
decide your outcome and mine.
8. Tolerance and Understanding will remove ALL fear.
9. We are caring and loving people.
10. We are emotional people and dont like our religion to be made fun of, and we are frankly sick and tired of listening to people who dont understand
it try to explain it or teach it to others, especially in a hateful way.
11. We look for the same good things in life as any other human!
12. We dont involve ourselves in the affairs of others...we have our own internal issues to deal with, as does everyone.

also, this thread should not be about religion, the only reason Islam even came into the discussion is because of the miracle with the moon (which
already happened). I know people in China had also seen it at that time as there is a religious sect there whose trademark sign is the moon split in
two, though i forget their name at the moment.... i will look for it though.

And remember how we thought of Vietnamese back in the time of war? no we trust them with our $$ as they are our stockbrokers, bankers, ... and even
with our lives as they are our doctors. so lets not hate.. there's enough of that out there.

and rather than hate us muslims, instead trust us for once and come to our homes and have some tasty food.. really! ... we're not 12 course like
italian hehe but you'll leave happy

... we make some good chai (tea) too

and by the way... i live in a predominantly Jewish neighborhood, and
everytime we cook up something we take some for our neighbors.... thats the kind of people we are. So please dont let the same people who make Our
religion look bad to us, label the entire religion to you.

1. Muslims are NOT allowed to kill ANYONE, unless, they are being attacked on their homeland and are being Opressed or Occupied. So some of what you
call Terrorism, Islam calls Self Defense. And some of what you call Terrorism, we ALSO call Terrorism (blowing up and killing civilians-this is wrong
all the way and we strongly believe this!) Iraqis are called Insurgents/Terrorists for fighting for their freedom, they didn't attack us! We went for
their Oil remember?
2. Muslims DO NOT hate JEWS or Christians or ANYONE... please lets discuss this because you will fall on your face if you try to say we do. bring it
on please!
3. Muslims are not Terrorists.
4. Muslims have been in North America since it was established.
5. If Muslims were terrorists, then you would already be dead. thats is a fact... there are 4 Billion of us and growing, so get used to us and
understand us for what we really are, not what FOX and CNN say we are.
(6.) If you ever MET a Muslim, you would know we are some of the most Hospitable people on this planet. but ofcourse with your paranoia you will think
we are just being nice to show you ..yet we think otherwise?!!
7. We have our beliefs and we dont come and tell you that we are right and you are wrong. Religion is between man and God, so leave it to God to
decide your outcome and mine.
8. Tolerance and Understanding will remove ALL fear.
9. We are caring and loving people.
10. We are emotional people and dont like our religion to be made fun of, and we are frankly sick and tired of listening to people who dont understand
it try to explain it or teach it to others, especially in a hateful way.
11. We look for the same good things in life as any other human!
12. We dont involve ourselves in the affairs of others...we have our own internal issues to deal with, as does everyone.

What happened to all the intelligent people?

Hmm very good points Zyon. But please explain why this is so? I was in Eygpt in 2006 I had friends there but since I told my friend that I won't
convert they no longer keep in contact with me? (I was engaged.) This saddens me because I wanted them to accept me as I was. I was treated with
kindness and tell you the truth I really want to go back. But at the moment I can't because of my finances.

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