Criticism on Nolan's films will build over time, just as criticism for any movie does, but I doubt there will be a 180 degree turn on the trilogy. Even if the reboot is a masterpiece, most people will recount how they enjoyed the Nolan films at the time of their release.

Even with the Burton films, there are plenty of people who admit to still liking them even if they admit that their appreciation for them has been diminished a bit. The Spider-Man movies were different because the third film made obvious the flaws of the first two, magnifying them to an enormous degree. The Nolan films, on the other hand, remained fairly consistent.

Oh, definitely. If Raimi's Spiderman, Donner's Superman, Burton's Batman and Singer's X-Men franchises weren't safe from the ugly turn, then no franchise is safe. Whedon's The Avengers is absolutely gonna receive backlash a decade from now. The sequel is going to garner a more polarizing reaction from fans.

I actually think the sequel is going to be better, which is going to make the first one more susceptible to criticism people don't want to hear right now. A good number of fans got tired of hearing how great TDK was for 4 years straight, they were waiting to hold something, anything, else up and say "Look! this is good too."

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvz5

Hmmm... I think the TA backlash will happen at the 3rd one rather than the 2nd one.

Definitely going to be the sequel, which is still a good ways off. Primarily because it's going to start influencing other superhero films much like TDK did. Instead of trying to shove dark and gritty themes into characters it doesn't belong, everything's going to start being too light, with jokes that don't work and goofy interactions that fall flat. Plus, I think the sequel will just be better in it's own regard.

__________________"I don't give a **** what you say. If I go out there and miss game winners, and people say, 'Kobe choked, or Kobe is seven for whatever in pressure situations,' Well, **** you. Because I don't play for your ******* approval. I play for my own love and enjoyment of the game. And to win. That's what I play for."-Kobe Bryant
"As of right now, I don't know what he do good, cause what may work on another fighter is not gonna work on me." - Floyd Mayweather

I stand by saying he doesn't understand some of Batman's characters, and that Bale's bat-voice is the worst bat-voice ever.

Well, that varies. Some say Burton's films were more loyal to the source material and that his characters were more brilliantly written compared to Nolan's films. And yet, when you examine The Dark Knight Trilogy as a whole, ironically, Nolan's franchise is more loyal to the source material than Burton's, in my opinion.

I think it's just safe to say that fanboys are a peculiar bunch and will never be fully satisfied.

The Avengers sequel will be very interesting. If Whedon isn't back, I'm not sure who can succeed him. He must return. He must.

Nolan had en excellent handle on the characters. Yes, Batman (1989) was more comic book oriented, but it was also bloody boring. Nolan went a long way towards humanizing the characters and importing a sheen onto them that's needed for cinematic adaptations.

My favourite Batman stories are typically Legends of The Dark Knight material. Others being done by Jeph Loeb. So anything that deviates too much into the superheroic or fantastic, tends to bore me.

__________________
In fearful day in raging night, no evil shall escape my sight. When all seems lost and hope ignites, beware my power, Blue Lantern's light.

__________________Supermanwith Batman - Whatever It Is... - Countdown until midnight release on March 25, 2016 - updated!
A hero can be anyone. Even a man doing something as simple and reassuring as putting a coataround a young boy's shoulders to let him know the world hadn't ended.

The Avengers sequel will be very interesting. If Whedon isn't back, I'm not sure who can succeed him. He must return. He must.

He'll return.

What's ridiculous is Marvel over-saturating the market with more solo Iron Man and Captain America films. It might work in the short term but eventually the general public is going to start feeling overkill. Superhero movies have been a summer staple for several years now but this is a different scenario. Marvel has a full-blown enterprise on their hands... a virtual monopoly outside of Batman and maybe Superman.

I actually think the sequel is going to be better, which is going to make the first one more susceptible to criticism people don't want to hear right now. A good number of fans got tired of hearing how great TDK was for 4 years straight, they were waiting to hold something, anything, else up and say "Look! this is good too."

I've never been a fan of Whedon's style for storytelling. In fact, I find Joss' stories to be overrated. It's his characters that tend to capture my attention and heart. For instance, I disliked Firefly/Serenity but I was captivated by his characters.

The Avengers was the first Whedon product that I enjoyed, but after my third viewing of the film I couldn't conjure the strength to see it again. The story was just so flat. It'll be interesting to see how he handles a more small-scale film for Avengers 2.

I've never been a fan of Whedon's style for storytelling. In fact, I find Joss' stories to be overrated. It's his characters that tend to capture my attention and heart. For instance, I disliked Firefly/Serenity but I was captivated by his characters.

The Avengers was the first Whedon product that I enjoyed, but after my third viewing of the film I couldn't conjure the strength to see it again. The story was just so flat. It'll be interesting to see how he handles a more small-scale film for Avengers 2.

I know that's what he wants, but I don't know if he'll have that option. Marvel has shown a propensity to discontinue work with any and everybody. I feel like they won't think anything but bigger will be better for Avengers 2. If that's the case, Joss is either gonna have to play ball, or possibly get replaced. At one time, Jon Favreau was the golden boy too. And while he could've came back for IM3, reading between the lines, I think he grew tired quickly with Marvel's input.

__________________"I don't give a **** what you say. If I go out there and miss game winners, and people say, 'Kobe choked, or Kobe is seven for whatever in pressure situations,' Well, **** you. Because I don't play for your ******* approval. I play for my own love and enjoyment of the game. And to win. That's what I play for."-Kobe Bryant
"As of right now, I don't know what he do good, cause what may work on another fighter is not gonna work on me." - Floyd Mayweather

Considering not everyone loves the Nolan films, it's not going to be a turn against his films, just people drinking the Nolan koolaid will realize not everyone liked his Batman.

All i know is the entire Internet was "drinking the koolaide" in 2005 after eight years of absence following the heartbreaking "film" that was Batman & Robin. Then in 2008, TDK became the highest grossing film of the decade (before Avatar) and second highest grossing of all time. Again, people were pretty into it and not just Nolanites and Nolan fanboys.

But soon, it's going to be "Nolan didn't have a Lazirus Pit/venom for Bane/permaskin/whatever...." and that is all fans on the Internet will say about his movies. How this, that, and this were wrong and ruined the character.

A storm is indeed coming.

__________________
"Let us disappoint the Men who are raising themselves upon the ruin of this Country."

Actually I'm expecting the opposite when a new director is announced for the next franchise...

Some kind of "No one will ever top Nolan". Until the next movie comes out at least, and the new guy either proves himself worthy or proves the haters right.

But let's not be half-empty glass guys here... A lot of movies actually get more praise as time passes.

I agree that truly good films only become more obviously so as time passes. And I do think that those who look back at films that defined the 2000s or the post-9/11 and Bush War on Terror years, TDK is going to be a benchmark for the level of dread, paranoia and even moral ambiguity about the "good guys'" tactics it permeated throughout the film. Plus, Ledger's performance will go down as one of the all-time greats.

BUT, I'm talking about the fan community. The majority turns on everything eventually. If it happened to Donner, Raimi, Singer and Burton (majority, not all fans), it will happen to Nolan.

At this point it is more bemusing and entertaining to me. Especially because I do think the second one is a definitive rendering of the character on film.

__________________
"Let us disappoint the Men who are raising themselves upon the ruin of this Country."

I don't remember people turning on Bryan Singer's first X-Men or X-Men 2 when Matthew Vaughn came around. X-Men 3 and XMO: Wolverine, on the other hand. Even though that latter two have always had a majority against them.

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"Twenty years in Gotham; how many good guys are left?How many stayed that way?"

I know that's what he wants, but I don't know if he'll have that option. Marvel has shown a propensity to discontinue work with any and everybody. I feel like they won't think anything but bigger will be better for Avengers 2. If that's the case, Joss is either gonna have to play ball, or possibly get replaced. At one time, Jon Favreau was the golden boy too. And while he could've came back for IM3, reading between the lines, I think he grew tired quickly with Marvel's input.

To Marvel Studios, Joss is expendable if he refuses to play ball (despite what fans say), I agree. Whedon wasn't even their first choice for director. He was only hired because he came cheap. It wouldn't be surprising if Whedon walked away. Marvel Studios has pissed off alot talent in the past.

I don't remember people turning on Bryan Singer's first X-Men or X-Men 2 when Matthew Vaughn came around. X-Men 3 and XMO: Wolverine, on the other hand. Even though that latter two have always had a majority against them.

I'm actually of the mind that the first X-men was a bit overrated. I know I loved it when it came out, but it just doesn't hold up now. Really the whole trilogy, it's more Wolverine & Friends, then X-men. I think it's the rare case that the new director really did revamp things for the better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoomsdayApex

To Marvel Studios, Joss is expendable if he refuses to play ball (despite what fans say), I agree. Whedon wasn't even their first choice for director. He was only hired because he came cheap. It wouldn't be surprising if Whedon walked away. Marvel Studios has pissed off alot talent in the past.

Oh for sure. I respect what they've done, the cinematic universe. It was different and worked to a certain extent. But eventually, talented directors won't want to have the studio over their back, and they'll just want to make whatever standalone film they wish to make.

__________________"I don't give a **** what you say. If I go out there and miss game winners, and people say, 'Kobe choked, or Kobe is seven for whatever in pressure situations,' Well, **** you. Because I don't play for your ******* approval. I play for my own love and enjoyment of the game. And to win. That's what I play for."-Kobe Bryant
"As of right now, I don't know what he do good, cause what may work on another fighter is not gonna work on me." - Floyd Mayweather

Oh if it hasn't already happened it will. However there's always room for different interpretations of Batman. Just like there are numerous different takes in the comic scene why not with movies. I shall give any other version a chance, but its going to take something very VERY special to eclipse this trilogy and even if it does I willl still enjoy this one for years to come as it will always be the first GREAT comic book trilogy of all time in my eye's and nothing can change that.

If you consider yourself to be a fan of the trilogy then to me that will never change, I will always be a fan of it!

Oh for sure. I respect what they've done, the cinematic universe. It was different and worked to a certain extent. But eventually, talented directors won't want to have the studio over their back, and they'll just want to make whatever standalone film they wish to make.

Yep. Marvel Studios had to do they did to succeed, but in the process they've pushed actors and directors away. Whedon can go wherever he wants now and get a studio's blessing after his work on The Avengers. What director doesn't dream of complete creative freedom?

Oh if it hasn't already happened it will. However there's always room for different interpretations of Batman. Just like there are numerous different takes in the comic scene why not with movies. I shall give any other version a chance, but its going to take something very VERY special to eclipse this trilogy and even if it does I willl still enjoy this one for years to come as it will always be the first GREAT comic book trilogy of all time in my eye's and nothing can change that.

If you consider yourself to be a fan of the trilogy then to me that will never change, I will always be a fan of it!

Very true. I still hold B89 in a very special place. It was my first ever VHS tape as a kid (Ironically, TDK prompted me to take the Bluray plunge.) I played that VHS until it broke lol. Literally. I can probably quote that movie almost verbatim. BR I feel is a good Burton movie as I grew to like it more than I did when I was young, it's just not a good Batman film. I even like BF well enough. There's definitely room for different interpretations. I actually think the best way for DC to go is a complete comic translation, cloth suit and all. It's never been done big screen, and opens up the filmmaker to a whole new avenue to exploit.

That being said, almost every wish I've ever had for Batman came true with Nolan's trilogy, one way or another. They definitely need to let this franchise breath for a little.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoomsdayApex

Yep. Marvel Studios had to do they did to succeed, but in the process they've pushed actors and directors away. Whedon can go wherever he wants now and get a studio's blessing after his work on The Avengers. What director doesn't dream of complete creative freedom?

Exactly, it's going to be a hard reputation to get rid of after awhile. Sooner or later, all the good directors might have their "superhero" fix as it is, with 3-4 movies coming out every year. Over-saturation, lack of creative control, these are all reasons to enjoy this era of comic flicks now. I have a feeling things are going to change sooner rather than later. IMO, it might not be a bad thing either. I'd prefer to get 1 or 2 quality movies a year as opposed to 3 or 4 mediocre ones.

__________________"I don't give a **** what you say. If I go out there and miss game winners, and people say, 'Kobe choked, or Kobe is seven for whatever in pressure situations,' Well, **** you. Because I don't play for your ******* approval. I play for my own love and enjoyment of the game. And to win. That's what I play for."-Kobe Bryant
"As of right now, I don't know what he do good, cause what may work on another fighter is not gonna work on me." - Floyd Mayweather