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which has all the études played on an 1851 Erard. No, not the same one that Emmanuel Ax has recorded:

"The instrument used in this recording, Serial no. 22,657, was built in 1851 in Paris, 2 years after Chopin's death. It is approximately the size of a Steinway model B, but weighs only 450 lbs. about half the weight of the Steinway. The pitch stability of the instrument is poor - changing with the weather or vigorous playing. The fast decay, however, makes small tuning errors tolerable. The dynamical scale of the instrument is smaller than the modern grand. The greatest volume is less than half that of the model B. while the model B can be played considerably softer with reliability. For delicacy and clarity the Erard has the upper hand. The comparison is like that of a sports car to the touring sedan.

The piano was owned by Glenn D. White of Seattle. It was restored to playing condition by him with the assistance of Allen Goldstein. Minimal changes were made in the restoration so that the piano is in no sense modernized. The hammers and action are the original ones."

It would appear that Steven is having an effect on you, i.e. the use of the word "dang." It certainly is kinder than a few other expletives I can think of.

The site you posted is wonderful. So much information and "free stuff!" It doesn't get any better than that. Thank you.

I have often wondered (perhaps daydreamed would be more accurate) what it would be like to be one of the people in Chopin's "inner circle." To be present at his private performances in all those yummy salons and/or to be invited to his home for an evening of conversation and maybe listening to him at the keyboard, improvising. To be a good friend of his, one whom he highly regarded and loved. Ah, one can only dream.

On a more personal note (and forgive me for my tendenacy to use this thread in such a way), I have not been able to play the piano for more than a few minutes in the past weeks. My sciatic nerve is giving me so much trouble that it is pure agony to sit on that hard bench and use the pedal. So yesterday, I made an appointment with a doctor who specializes in disorders of the spine, especially the sciatic nerve. I do so hope to get some relief soon because I fear all that I have learned or accomplished will soon disappear.

Kathleen

_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

#981498 - 09/03/0811:03 PMRe: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin

Elene
1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1425
Loc: Land of Enchantment

Kathleen,

I always said "dang"! But I'm happy to share it with Steven, who has such excellent language skills.

I sure hope the spine doc can help. But in the meantime, why sit on a hard bench to play?I use an office chair with a waterfall seat, which I have set with a slight forward tilt (not all chairs do that) so that my lumbar spine has the proper, comfortable curve. Of course it doesn't stop me from slumping my upper back, but it does make it much easier not to.

One of Chopin's Own Pleyel Pianos Discovered in EnglandBy Vivien Schweitzer19 Mar 2007

A Pleyel grand piano owned by Frederic Chopin has been discovered in a country house museum in the south of England, reports The Times of London.

The piano, which Chopin used in his final concert tour, was located in the collection of Alec Cobbe, a collector of antique keyboard instruments who purchased the French-made piano for just £2,000, unaware of its storied history. Chopin scholar Jean-Jacques Eigeldinger tracked the instrument down; it is now on display at a National Trust house in Surrey with the rest of Cobbe's collection.

Camille Pleyel and Chopin were close friends; The Times reports that there appears to have been a verbal contract between the two similar to a modern sponsorship deal: Pleyel agreed to supply Chopin with free pianos, and in return, Chopin promoted the Pleyel instruments to his pupils and admirers (and received a 10 per cent commission from any sales).

Chopin left Paris for London in 1848, bringing with him a Pleyel piano made two years earlier. When he left London (a town he hated for both its fog and its culture) he sold the instrument to a Lady Trotter, whose daughter, Margaret, was his friend and probable pupil, according to The Times.

For almost 160 years, the whereabouts of the instrument were unknown, until Dr. Eigeldinger, emeritus professor of musicology at the University of Geneva, decided to try and correlate the scattered Pleyel instruments with the firm's archives. By matching serial numbers in Pleyel’s ledger, Eigeldinger was able to identify the piano owned by Cobbe as the one Chopin had brought to England in 1848.

In 1988 Cobbe bought the instrument from a dealer in antique pianos, who had purchased it at an auction in the late 1970s. The Cobbe Collection Trust, which aims to offer musicians and audiences the chance to hear music played as the composers would have heard it, includes instruments owned or played by Purcell, Bach, Mozart, Mahler and Elgar.

Chopin reportedly said that the firm's instruments were the only ones ideally suited to his music.

"The pianos of today produce lone [sic], sustaining, liquid notes," Cobbe told The Times," whereas with the Pleyel the notes die away much more quickly and this gives a completely different texture to the music." Liszt wrote that Chopin "particularly cherished" Pleyel pianos "for their silvery and slightly veiled sonority and their lightness of touch."

Thank you both, MaryRose and Elene, for your concern. I often think of my dear mother, who died in 1984, whenever I have some aches or pains. She would always admonish me about going to a doctor, saying: "Don't go looking for trouble." What is so curious about this is that I often wait out much of them, and more times than not, they go away by themselves. Mothers always know best. However, there does comes a time when playing the waiting game doesn't work.

Elene: I did had one of those chairs that you mentioned and found it very helpful. But, I didn't like the way it looked in my living room, next to my grand (I'm afraid I have a strong aesthic bent), so I took it back to the store. I just might have to buy another one and perhaps find a screen to hit it from view.

I enjoyed reading the article you posted. That Chopin sold the piano that Pleyel lent him seems a bit dishonest, but perhaps Pleyel gave him permission to do so. I hope he split the $$ with Pleyel. Also that Chopin received 10% of all sales was news to me, for I've never read that before. They certainly had a good arrangement going. So Chopin was not only a musician, teacher, composer and pianist but also a used-piano salesman. Funny!

I'm going to look up the "dang," just for the fun of it to see if it has a interesting history.

My best to all,Kathleen

_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

I investigated the etymology of my favorite gentle euphemism just last night; though my personal usage only goes back to junior high school, sources date its origin to the late 1700s while also citing a much earlier use by Christopher Marlowe (in Hero and Leander):

Quote:

Till she, o'ercome with anguish, shame, and rage, Danged down to hell her loathsome carriage.

Dang.

Hey, about Pleyel ... it seems our Chopin was a "Pleyel Artist" long before there was a roster of "Steinway Artists."

Were any other great composers (besides Clementi) so strongly associated with particular piano makers?

Steven

_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."—Albert Schweitzer

Thanks, Steven, for that interesting etymology of dang. It would seem to me to be a combination of the words damned and hanged. Having studied Latin for 4 years in high school, I still find it helpful in deciphering the definitions of many words that are not familiar to me. It especially comes in handy when I am watching Jeopardy.

And thanks Frycek, for reminding us of that receipt that was mentioned in a previous post. I'm always on guard for anything that might lessen Chopin's character and always pleased (but not surprised) when I find it has not been tarnished.

Kathleen

_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

Kathleen, Perhaps a padded artist bench might be less painful and also more aesthetically pleasing than the chair. You might be able to find one used as they can be expensive. I've also used pillows although they can slide around a bit. I hope you are feeling better.

I'm going on the "rack" next week. It's just one of those tables that creates a negative pressure on your spine, supposedly allowing the spaces between the vertebrae to increase and thus everything snaps back into place.

Hopefully, when all the treatments are over, I'll be as tall as my youngest great-niece...6', and I'll be able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. :p

Kathleen

_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

#981509 - 09/06/0808:50 PMRe: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin

Elene
1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1425
Loc: Land of Enchantment

Kathleen,

Gentle traction is generally helpful, and safe, to take the pressure off those nerves. If it is working you may be able to get a device to use at home as well. Or if your Mr. is up to it he may be able to do some good by simply pulling on your legs.

After all, we need our souplesse in order to play!

A padded artist bench does look nice, but I don't use mine because I need the tilt. Also, mine is old, and it squeaks!

Thank you, both, MaryRose and Elene: I survived my first session on the rack with no trouble.

You raise a good point, MaryRose, and one I never thought of. I've never read that Chopin was doubled-over when teaching sometimes. If I did, I think I may have contributed this to his coughing spells, but I certainly could be wrong. It would seem that with his concept of "ease" and gentleness that he might not have had the pain that many of us do.

I am also like you in thinking that I must be doing something wrong because I really never experienced any pain from playing (aside from the 17th prelude, which had huge chords that my fingers could barely wrap around). Otherwise, the only thing that hurts me is my rear. Now I wonder if Chopin had a padded bench, for he didn't have too much of a cushion in that part of his body.

I recently read an interesting article in a psychology magazine about how our tastes in music/art/literature can indicate our character. My eyes fell upon the word "Chopin," which prompted me to read the whole piece.

In a nutshell, those who prefer the classics in everything (and here is where Chopin was mentioned because of our appreciation of his technical skill in composition) are usually the intraverts. While we do like people, we often prefer to be alone. We are dependable, hard-working, compassionate and self-reliant. Just the opposite for the extraverts.

I would venture to say (and I am just relying on what I have read from you and about you) that we are probably all intraverts to a large degree, for no one is completely one way or the other. This isn't to say that we are shy or retiring. On the contrary. It only indicates that we like the tried and true and really aren't risk-takers or like to venture way out there into unchartered waters, seeking to find the new and the bizzare in music and literature, etc.

What say you? Are you an intravert?

Kathleen

_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

Here I am. Thank so much to Kathleen for the suggestion to check this thread. Touching signature you have and all the best for your back. I share the same troubles of yours, I always feel pain after half an hour and can understand how unconfortable is.

This is an unbelievable collection of articles and news one can read in the links suggested.

It will take a whole year to just read them all but cannot steal all that time from my beloved piano.

A couple of words about me and Chopin. I've always felt close to the spiritual world of Fryderyk, like many of you I'd bet if I'd lived 200 years ago in Paris he would have been my best friend

Two years ago I lost a close friend of mine for a sad and silly accident, I sat at the piano and played the only piece I could recall of Chopin (Prelude no.4). Well actually it was the only one I knew of him. From that moment I swore to start again to take lessons.

I had a chance to visit Valdemossa in the isle of Palma where Chopin spent the winter with Sand and her family. It was January, a rainy day with a thick fog all day. I almost cried when I saw his cell and his hand. Great feelings I hope to bring back when i'll play the Prelude no.15 Raindrop which I'm learning right now.

Kathleen: welcome back! I hope you will be feeling better and that your session of traction was helpful. I think that you and MR can consider your pain-free playing to be due to proper technique, not inadequate practice! (although with back pain, it's a different matter). I sometimes have mild shoulder pain when starting a new piece, especially the left side when there are large leaps- as in Chopin's nocturne 27/2. Happily, it is transient. Strangely enough, practicing the 48/1 never brought me any aches or pains.

Chopinet: welcome to our thread! (I love your log-in name). You will find lots of friends here who share your love of Chopin and his music. It's an addiction you will not want to overcome. Looking forward to hearing samples from you!

Kathleen- I would be interested to read that entire article; do you have a link, or the complete reference? As for me- definitely more introvert than extrovert, but with plenty of extrovert "enzymes" that can be induced; I don't really know if a correlation can be made, however. It's an interesting theory, but I just don't know if I buy it.

Welcome again, Chopinet. I was so happy to see you found your way to our thread. It is fairly obvious (other than your name, of course) that you most definitely belong here, for you are immediately surrounded by friends.

Please accept my condolences on the loss of your dear friend. The 4th prelude seems to be the one many of us turn to when our hearts are heavy. While it appears to be one of Chopin's simplest compositions, it is very deceiving. To play it the way he intended is quite difficult. I hope you found some solace from its gentle and soothing melody. I have always thought of it as a "sighing" piece. If you listen carefully, I think you will agree.

We have covered almost everything there is to cover about Chopin, and more than once. I am so envious that you had the chance to visit Valdemossa. Rather than an exciting experience, it had to be a gut-wrenching one. I doubt that few don't walk away in tears. I would imagine that being there one could feel both Chopin's presence and his pain. That you also feel a spiritual connection with him is so very much a common and strong feeling with all of us here. We find it impossible to describe, but it is there, just the same. Thank you for sharing this with us. And please do not remain a stranger. And, once again, I hope your journey with his music brings you much fulfillment and joy.

Hi Chardonnay: Thank you for your caring words. I must say that after two sessions on the rack, my back is feeling better. I don't know about MaryRose, but I do know that my technique (if I have one) is nothing to brag about. :rolleyes:

The article to which I referred was from the magazine Psychology. It was one of many magazines I found in my doctor's office, and I had to leave it there when my name was called. I don't know if it was the current issue, but I wonder if it has its own web site. I'll give it a try. Or I could always go back to my doctor and ask that they save it for me and not throw it out. It was an extremely insightful piece and even went into the characteristics of neurotic people. I'll let you know.

A good and cheerful day to all,Kathleen

_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

Originally posted by loveschopintoomuch:It was an extremely insightful piece and even went into the characteristics of neurotic people.[/b]

Kathleen, it sounds like that would be helpful to understand whether we're predominantly extraverted or introverted.

But I can say with absolute certainty that no one here is neurotic. I mean, I'm fairly sure most people here aren't neurotic. Well, I don't think many people here are neurotic. Okay, perhaps there are some. But I don't think I've encountered them. Well, I'm pretty certain I'm not aware of more than a few. No, wait, I'm positive that I don't know of any. Any at all! Well, I don't! And I am unanimous in that!

Dang.

sTeVen

_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."—Albert Schweitzer

Kathleen: Yes indeed I was lucky enough to visit the church and cells at Valdemossa almost at closing visiting time and above all on a rainy day which brought many people to remain at the hotel.So I ended up being alone with my wife in the little museum and before in Chopin's cell enjoying the atmosphere of solitude and meditation which should have reigned 2 centuries ago. I've never been at Chopin's grave in Paris, but I must admit that Valdemossa has been really touching.

Chardonnay: I bet you know my nickname was how George Sand used to call Chopin. I think that literally it sounds "little Chopin", like you would call your baby or pet.The only piece I recorded is Nocturne Posthume C#Minor, you can listen to it following the url in my profile. Now I'm working on nocturne op.37/1

What shocked me about Chopin is that for lots of year I had a misconception about his music which I regarded (maybe too influenced by nocturnes and preludes) as mainly sad, melancholy and introverted to stay on topic. This year I had the chance to attend to a couple of concert of Pietro De Maria performing exclusively Chopin's piano music (from op. 31 to op. 54) and I must admit I've been shocked by the strenght, the revolutionary feelings, the cries I witnessed in most of his pieces.Bear with my english, I wish I could express better my sensations.

Chopinet -welcome, all the way from Italy! I expect you know that Chopin had warm feelings about Italy and, apart from his short trip to Genoa after the Mallorca episode, never went there although he hoped to.

Chardonnay - the nearest Chopin seemed to get to a nickname for George Sand was 'the lady of the house' - rather distant, wouldn't you say? Perhaps he kept the most intimate nickname for when they were in private.

Hi Steven: I agree with Sophia's Not only are you an articulate, intelligent, talented and passionate person but also quite :p .

I happen to KNOW there are quite a few neurotic people (not on this thread, of course) on this forum. I couldn't help but notice your "exchange of ideas" with a certain someone, whose name begins with a small b and ends with a small b. Frycek and I had quite a little spat with this person many months ago. He referred to our thread as "cloying." Wow, did I lay into him. But after a few days, I sent him a PM apologizing for my emotional outburst, but we haven't seen or heard from him since. So much for being a big person. :rolleyes:

One must remember, Frycek, that most of the great minds had a few screws loose, here and there. I believe that they achieved what they did because they heard the beat of a different drummer.

Chopinet: I also just finished working on the C#m nocturne, posth and then started on the 37.1. How did you manage that huge run near the end? I agree with Chardonnay that your English is wonderful. I KNOW I could not learn Italian. Besides, words, in any language, do tend to fail, when speaking about Chopin and his music. I tried getting on your URL site via your profile, but all I got was the stuff I had posted on youtube.

MaryRose: I know a couple of Chopin's friends had nicknames for M. Sand, but good taste prevents me from mentioning them here. I can also think up of a few, but again, I never did care for her referring to Chopin in the diminutive. It seemed like an insult to me, especially when she said she thought of him as one of her children. Oh, Ppppllllleeeeaaasssseee!

Kathleen

_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

Originally posted by loveschopintoomuch:I never did care for her referring to Chopin in the diminutive.[/b]

At least it wasn't Chopignon. A champignon is a mushroom!

Dang ... Chardonnay, I hope that wasn't one of the other nicknames.

Steven

p.s. Kathleen, re that chappie who thinks the thread is "cloying": he should join us and make some contributions of his own that he considers to be less so! Perhaps he has trouble expressing his love for our hero, but my impression from a number of comments he's made is that he's really one of us.

_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."—Albert Schweitzer

Mushrooms happen to be a mainstay of the diet of many Poles. They just love 'em. I remember, as a youngster, going to the woods with my mother and aunt, hunting for them. However, I was warned that I had to be careful as some were poisonous. Thus, my bucket was fairly empty for fear of killing off everyone in my family.

If I remember correctly, "that person" made the cloying remark after Frycek and I were getting pretty silly, talking about Chopin's fondness for chocolate, and we were thinking up all the many food items that we could dip in that brown, heavenly ambrosia.

And, yes, I do believe he is one of us in his depth of feeling for Chopin's music. And he did make several very helpful and insightful remarks here. But, as I mentioned, he never did come back...even though I did apologize and invited him to join us once again. Oh well...

Kathleen

_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891