Wait what? I gotta change again as the build changed?
Ah well, the old one also worked fine, but I'll go ahead and change it up.

Pff, like two things changed!
Just be happy for the shiny new pictures and spreadsheet!

Kildaros, on 23 November 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

Brand, you not want create an optimal build to axe/shield or anything/shield users? You said you really like math

Ahahaha, you're funny >.> Even if I wanted to (I don't ^^) I'm no expert on Axe/Shield or anything like that. Strife runs an Axe/Mace build here that might work for you, or you can ask him for help seeing as he surely knows more than I about those types of builds. Sithicusalso runs a Mace/Shield build on his thread, you could give him a shout if you wanted (His build is full support) and ask him about his build or similar builds.

Sorry I can't help much with that haha, hope you find what you're looking for though

Brand, you not want create an optimal build to axe/shield or anything/shield users? You said you really like math

Brand, on 23 November 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

Sorry I can't help much with that haha, hope you find what you're looking for though

@Kildaros: The thing with Sonic Boon is that one of the most important mechanisms (Might Stacks) is heavily tied in to the Forceful Greatsword trait, as such, deviating away from the Greatsword would diminish one of the most fundamental mechanics behind it. The build set up is there to allow for some Axe bias if you swapped traits, however without Defense, you'd miss out on Shield Master. Also, Axes tend to receive their biggest buffs when equipping one in the off-hand.

Would this do well in the Arah dungeon? I've been dying to grind for the heavy set, but I'm discouraged because everyone has been telling me to run a Guardian. I've already done so much on my warrior I really don't feel like making an alt. 100% world completion, T3 Cultural armor, etc.

But on that note, if someone could point out a build that would get the job done, that would be greatly appreciated. I'm a huge fan of the GS. Thanks.

Would this do well in the Arah dungeon? I've been dying to grind for the heavy set, but I'm discouraged because everyone has been telling me to run a Guardian. I've already done so much on my warrior I really don't feel like making an alt. 100% world completion, T3 Cultural armor, etc.

But on that note, if someone could point out a build that would get the job done, that would be greatly appreciated. I'm a huge fan of the GS. Thanks.

This build should do you fine as long as you have a strong support Guardian with you.

Lets you grab the other GS major trait instead of grabbing +50% bleed duration, which is somewhat lack luster if your not running a sword build imo. Doubles in usefulness because i can swap that trait for axe damage master instead when i need to use an axe.

Lets you grab the other GS major trait instead of grabbing +50% bleed duration, which is somewhat lack luster if your not running a sword build imo. Doubles in usefulness because i can swap that trait for axe damage master instead when i need to use an axe.

You're forgetting the Arms minor trait which gives you 10% extra damage for all weapons when a target is bleeding (Always). This is the main reason we go into the Arms tree fully. We have points in arms to maximize our bleed damage and length, our precision, and to get that 10% damage bonus. It's better than the 10 points in Strength for THIS BUILD.

There is math a few pages back by Lilitu showing that all in all, 10/30/0/30/0 is your best option to maximize damage which I will post here:

10 less crit damage and 9% less crit for the 10% dmg greatsword trait as suggested above:
((188*0.6)*1.65))+((188*0.4)*1) = ~261, plus the 10% from the greatsword trait, 287.

Compare to 10 less crit damage and 9% less crit for the 10% on bleed and +~5% crit from arms as suggested above:
((177*0.65)*1.65))+((177*0.35)*1) = ~261, plus the 10% from the Arms minor trait, 276.

The difference here is pretty close. When you factor in longer bleeds, slightly higher bleed damage, and might proc chance it's in Arms favor, especially since the 10% dmg applies to all weapons and not just greatsword.

Edited for clarity. Hope this helps you!
(Also you should be using a totally different build with an Axe, as the X trait in arms becomes useless)

Would this do well in the Arah dungeon? I've been dying to grind for the heavy set, but I'm discouraged because everyone has been telling me to run a Guardian. I've already done so much on my warrior I really don't feel like making an alt. 100% world completion, T3 Cultural armor, etc.

But on that note, if someone could point out a build that would get the job done, that would be greatly appreciated. I'm a huge fan of the GS. Thanks.

In my experience, i find it's the people who do not really understand the capabilities of a Warrior fully that merely suggest Guardian. Warriors have much stronger Healing capabilities than Guardians do, this is fact, and the numbers back it up too. Guardians tend to provide their support from Boons among the party. In other words, these are two methods of team support that you cannot quantitatively compare. By all means stick with your Warrior, between Sonic Boon and some other support builds, you can do a lot of pretty amazing things as a Warrior.

As per Arah, you'll manage there just fine, as long as you follow the usual dungeon rules in that place (dodge more, etc etc).

Brand, on 24 November 2012 - 06:47 AM, said:

The difference here is pretty close. When you factor in longer bleeds, slightly higher bleed damage, and might proc chance it's in Arms favor, especially since the 10% dmg applies to all weapons and not just greatsword.

Edited for clarity. Hope this helps you!
(Also you should be using a totally different build with an Axe, as the X trait in arms becomes useless)

I have a habit of sometimes thinking too mathematically in some areas, for example it is easy to see the numbers and treat them as absolute. However, while it can be assumed an enemy target is always bleeding, is that really true? There are plenty of bosses to whom you apply bleed, and within, quite literally a fraction of a second it has already disappeared. As such, I don't think this is necessarily an accurate assumption to make. Given you have a 33% chance to apply bleeds, and then what, a 60% crit chance? The laws of probability tell us that:

If you add a Sup Sigil of Earth, it's own probability to apply bleed = 0.6*0.8 = 0.48

So if you have Precise Strikes AND an Earth Sigil your probability to apply a bleed, P(bleed) = P(Precise Strikes) + P(Sigil) - P(Sigil AND Precise Strikes) = 0.264 + 0.48 - (0.264*0.48) = 0.61728 = ~62% to apply a bleed to an enemy on each strike.

Given that last I checked for this build, the recommended Sigil was Frailty, I can assume the chance to apply a bleed to your enemy is 26.4%, which is far from overwhelming in a solo effort.

This shows that as a solo effort, 26.4% is fairly underwhelming, but nevertheless in a solo effort you will probably keep a non-boss enemy bleeding, as such receiving your 10% bonus damage. However as I mentioned, some bosses shake off conditions very quickly, which means that you can all but say farewell to that bonus 10% damage. Since you cannot hope to consistently bleed a boss mob long enough to maintain that 10% bonus damage, you are hence relying on allies to bleed for you. I regularly play with a Necro and a Ranger, both of which supply heavy bleeds, leaving no room for anyone else to Bleed. As such, your own condition damage is quite negligible, since your bleeds will not last, and/or your allies are doing all the bleeding.

Nevertheless, reliance on allies who bleed still means you get your 10%. However, what if you don't have allies who bleed? What i'm trying to point out is that an enemy is not always bleeding, they are definitely not always bleeding from your own attacks, that's for sure. There are situations where bleeding not be applied consistently, and when this happens, your damage begins to fluctuate.

I think it is necessary to understand that there is an element of Fluctuating Damage if you spec fully into Arms. Fluctuating Might Stacks was the reason I began thinking of this build idea originally, because Boon/Might duration acts as a way to "level out" that fluctuation and move it more from "Rise and Fall" to "mostly Rise", and I think that the Strength trait is another method to "level out" fluctuating damage. It feels as if Grandmaster in Arms is gratuitous at best, since most traits other than Rending Strikes and Forceful Greatsword are fairly underwhelming.

It's definitely worth considering if RecentlyTaken is right taking the Strength trait, plus Spear Damage is nice, especially since there are a few underwater encounters, and there are sure to be more in the future (remember also Underwater skills are different so you cannot rely on your own bleeds to increase damage there). This is one of those situations where we need to start thinking beyond the maths, it's a little too theoretical right now, keep an eye on enemy conditions, see if you notice extended periods without bleeds.

I have a habit of sometimes thinking too mathematically in some areas, for example it is easy to see the numbers and treat them as absolute. However, while it can be assumed an enemy target is always bleeding, is that really true? There are plenty of bosses to whom you apply bleed, and within, quite literally a fraction of a second it has already disappeared. As such, I don't think this is necessarily an accurate assumption to make. Given you have a 33% chance to apply bleeds, and then what, a 60% crit chance? The laws of probability tell us that:

If you add a Sup Sigil of Earth, it's own probability to apply bleed = 0.6*0.8 = 0.48

So if you have Precise Strikes AND an Earth Sigil your probability to apply a bleed, P(bleed) = P(Precise Strikes) + P(Sigil) - P(Sigil AND Precise Strikes) = 0.264 + 0.48 - (0.264*0.48) = 0.61728 = ~62% to apply a bleed to an enemy on each strike.

Given that last I checked for this build, the recommended Sigil was Frailty, I can assume the chance to apply a bleed to your enemy is 26.4%, which is far from overwhelming in a solo effort.

This shows that as a solo effort, 26.4% is fairly underwhelming, but nevertheless in a solo effort you will probably keep a non-boss enemy bleeding, as such receiving your 10% bonus damage. However as I mentioned, some bosses shake off conditions very quickly, which means that you can all but say farewell to that bonus 10% damage. Since you cannot hope to consistently bleed a boss mob long enough to maintain that 10% bonus damage, you are hence relying on allies to bleed for you. I regularly play with a Necro and a Ranger, both of which supply heavy bleeds, leaving no room for anyone else to Bleed. As such, your own condition damage is quite negligible, since your bleeds will not last, and/or your allies are doing all the bleeding.

Nevertheless, reliance on allies who bleed still means you get your 10%. However, what if you don't have allies who bleed? What i'm trying to point out is that an enemy is not always bleeding, they are definitely not always bleeding from your own attacks, that's for sure. There are situations where bleeding not be applied consistently, and when this happens, your damage begins to fluctuate.

I think it is necessary to understand that there is an element of Fluctuating Damage if you spec fully into Arms. Fluctuating Might Stacks was the reason I began thinking of this build idea originally, because Boon/Might duration acts as a way to "level out" that fluctuation and move it more from "Rise and Fall" to "mostly Rise", and I think that the Strength trait is another method to "level out" fluctuating damage. It feels as if Grandmaster in Arms is gratuitous at best, since most traits other than Rending Strikes and Forceful Greatsword are fairly underwhelming.

It's definitely worth considering if RecentlyTaken is right taking the Strength trait, plus Spear Damage is nice, especially since there are a few underwater encounters, and there are sure to be more in the future (remember also Underwater skills are different so you cannot rely on your own bleeds to increase damage there). This is one of those situations where we need to start thinking beyond the maths, it's a little too theoretical right now, keep an eye on enemy conditions, see if you notice extended periods without bleeds.

First of all, I cannot imagine any (Good) group scenario that doesn't apply a lot of bleeds for you (Like, maybe if the rest of your team are guardians and mesmers?). It's very unlikely that you'll have a scenario with no allied bleeds. Disregarding that for the moment, I can personally say that your bleeds stay up nearly 100% of the time if not 100%.

You mention that many bosses shake off conditions. I have personally only noticed one boss doing it consistently (I might just not have been paying good enough attention). That was Kudu's Monster in CoE, and due to our high rate of Vulnerability application, that is the only condition he ever removed, Bleeds stayed up from myself and other party members 100% of the time. Take note that that was with two guardians and a mesmer, the only person other than me consistently applying bleeds was our thief (Which is to say the rate of application was not huge and stacks were not constant 25).

Another point you make is that sometimes there are too many bleeds, causing ours to be negligible. This is true, and was never a point I was trying to conceal. When we added those 10 points in Arms there were two goals; More crit, and the 10% dmg from bleeds. The main reasons for going 30 points in were the 10% damage for all weapons, and the Precision. We removed 9% crit from the build when we took out the points in Disc, and putting those in Strength isn't going to help us. With the 100 Precision granted by 10 points in Arms, we get half of that crit rate back, and 10% more damage. Without those points in Arms our Might stacking is going to diminish pretty significantly.

As a bonus to the two things mentioned above, we get extra condition damage and 50% longer bleeds. Since we have damn good amounts of condition damage from Might and the Arms line, our bleeds do 101 damage a second at one stack. The point of using the 50% bleed duration trait is not to do heavy damage with our bleeds, the point is that when we DO apply a bleed (Which unless you have two "bleeders" will be very frequently) it will last an extra second, and net us more damage. It's just a small bonus to the benefits already given by the Arms tree, and since it applies to the Rifle as well, it's helping us out quite a bit when we weapon swap (This goes for the 10% damage as well).

In closing I'd just like to sum up my counters to you. I have seen my bleeds up nearly 100% of the time, I have never seen Bleeds fall completely off a boss (And if somewhere along the line they do, surely your team will have them back up in a fraction of a second), if your team does not provide bleeds by all means tweak the build some but I have never been in a group pug or otherwise that lacked consistent bleeds, our condition damage is negligible in the first place and it's just a small bonus we get for grabbing that 10% extra damage and the crit that we need for the build.

Hey, I'm a warrior that's deeply interested by this build (because I want to use GS in dungeons and high level PVE), but I had a few questions for Brand or people with more experience with it.

How viable in this build in FOTM level 20+? I've had success with running a very defense heavy trait build (10/0/30/30/0) using VS and GS, with P/V/T gear, Soldier runes and , but even I admit that there's little synergy between my build and my chosen weapon. As I said, I really want to use GS optimally in high level play, but I wonder how much survivability would I be losing by switching to this build, if any?

What food buffs would you use to complement this build?

Given the new ascended gear, how does this affect the optimal gear for this build? Eg. if I were to go with this build, which of the ascended back pieces would benefit me more, and which of the rings would suit the build the best (I know that the latter are completely random, but still)?

Thanks for all the work in making the warrior a more interesting profession guys.

In closing I'd just like to sum up my counters to you. I have seen my bleeds up nearly 100% of the time, I have never seen Bleeds fall completely off a boss (And if somewhere along the line they do, surely your team will have them back up in a fraction of a second), if your team does not provide bleeds by all means tweak the build some but I have never been in a group pug or otherwise that lacked consistent bleeds, our condition damage is negligible in the first place and it's just a small bonus we get for grabbing that 10% extra damage and the crit that we need for the build.

Just making sure you thought about it, since there are plenty of factors that you really can't model in steady state.

Brand, I could give you the biggest kiss right now. I've been tearing my hair out the past couple days trying to find a balance between utility, damage output, survivability, versatility with weaponry, farming ease, testing my findings in the HotM training grounds, with no success. The only thing I've found with warriors in general is that often times I have to sacrifice a shout to go with balanced stance in some dungeons, particulary against hammer wardens in TA.

This build has saved me a lot of headache when playing warrior. Thank you, and thanks all who have helped contribute.

I've gone from fearing what build to use, to fearing Arenanet's nerfbat. And I guess that's as good as it's going to get.

Hey, I'm a warrior that's deeply interested by this build (because I want to use GS in dungeons and high level PVE), but I had a few questions for Brand or people with more experience with it.

How viable in this build in FOTM level 20+? I've had success with running a very defense heavy trait build (10/0/30/30/0) using VS and GS, with P/V/T gear, Soldier runes and , but even I admit that there's little synergy between my build and my chosen weapon. As I said, I really want to use GS optimally in high level play, but I wonder how much survivability would I be losing by switching to this build, if any?

What food buffs would you use to complement this build?

Given the new ascended gear, how does this affect the optimal gear for this build? Eg. if I were to go with this build, which of the ascended back pieces would benefit me more, and which of the rings would suit the build the best (I know that the latter are completely random, but still)?

Thanks for all the work in making the warrior a more interesting profession guys.

Well, first off you're obviously going to be losing some survivability when you switch between a defensive build and a damage build. All I can say here is that the damage you gain will be better than the survivability you lost (Atleast when using a GS with your other build there) not to mention the Omnomberry food we use (As detailed in the spreadsheet) gives us quite a bit of health return and ergo survivability when we crit.

As for it's use in Fractals, I am unsure. I haven't had a lot of time to get into that recently, but I can't imagine it doing badly. The same can be said about Ascended gear here, I haven't done much in regards to it so I am unsure. Perhaps others that use the build can shed some light on this subject.

Thanks for posting Hope that answers some of your questions, at least!

Doomulous, on 24 November 2012 - 07:49 PM, said:

Brand, I could give you the biggest kiss right now. I've been tearing my hair out the past couple days trying to find a balance between utility, damage output, survivability, versatility with weaponry, farming ease, testing my findings in the HotM training grounds, with no success. The only thing I've found with warriors in general is that often times I have to sacrifice a shout to go with balanced stance in some dungeons, particulary against hammer wardens in TA.

This build has saved me a lot of headache when playing warrior. Thank you, and thanks all who have helped contribute.

I've gone from fearing what build to use, to fearing Arenanet's nerfbat. And I guess that's as good as it's going to get.

D: That's homosexual and pedophilia, get away creeper!
But seriously haha, glad you enjoy the build though! Hope it serves you well

Just making sure you thought about it, since there are plenty of factors that you really can't model in steady state.

I have, I have Taking the Strength points will increase your flat damage output, when you take into account things like crit chance lost (And ergo Might lost) and the lack of damage for the other weapons in your arsenal, Arms comes out on top in the long run (Or should with a good team composition). It's kind of the same question as 20/30/0/10/10 vs Sonic Boon, you definitely end up with more damage, but you have to take into account the boon support, healing and survivability you lose.

These things aren't easily compared or quantified, with the exception of Boon support. We found out that the Might and Fury uptime we gave to the party while having 30 in tactics was only a few percent less than the total damage you gained by taking those points out of tactics. Now if you add in the fact that you get more survivability and healing support (Not to mention uptime of OMM), it becomes pretty obvious which trait line is better for this build, even though we can't see it very accurately numerically.

I guess...I'm going to go ahead with the build and see if they survivability loss is a offset, even if just a bit, with health on crit food + increased crit rate. As you might imagine survivability becomes the issue in higher FOTM levels, but I want to have an effective use of the GS so badly...it's going to mean scrapping my P/V/T gear because I transmuted that to my cultural set, and no way in hell I'm not going to use those looks.

As for the ascended gear, what I mean to say is that the stat combinations used on the spread sheet are not present in current ascended back pieces or rings, which would you say are the combinations (at least for backpieces, which we can choose) that would suit the build the most? Looking at this gear and finding the best fitting pieces will help people who want to use this build to progress into higher levels of FOTM (like me), who are forced to used ascended for the agony resistance.

I guess...I'm going to go ahead with the build and see if they survivability loss is a offset, even if just a bit, with health on crit food + increased crit rate. As you might imagine survivability becomes the issue in higher FOTM levels, but I want to have an effective use of the GS so badly...it's going to mean scrapping my P/V/T gear because I transmuted that to my cultural set, and no way in hell I'm not going to use those looks.

As for the ascended gear, what I mean to say is that the stat combinations used on the spread sheet are not present in current ascended back pieces or rings, which would you say are the combinations (at least for backpieces, which we can choose) that would suit the build the most? Looking at this gear and finding the best fitting pieces will help people who want to use this build to progress into higher levels of FOTM (like me), who are forced to used ascended for the agony resistance.

The spreadsheet suggests buying a 'Guild Caretaker Backpack'. They cost 5g. Just signed up to say you can get other pieces of gear with same stats for much cheaper. Example, 'Magi Spineguard' cost me less than 3 silver on the auction house.

I have been running a shout build with Cleric set/Mace/Shield for a bit. I like what it brings to the group. I'm going to try your build out though to bring a bit more damage to groups. Looks promising.

Have people been having great experiences with this build in fractals 10+, etc?

Edit: about your spreadsheet - i'm not sure if this is a bug but for whatever reason instead of 300 vitality bonus from traits, i am getting 315. i confirmed again by removing all my gear and refunded my skills. for every point spent i received more vitality than the tooltip said i would receive. bug?

Edit: about your spreadsheet - i'm not sure if this is a bug but for whatever reason instead of 300 vitality bonus from traits, i am getting 315. i confirmed again by removing all my gear and refunded my skills. for every point spent i received more vitality than the tooltip said i would receive. bug?

Noticed this a while ago, chalked it up to being some sort of internal multiplier for Warrior "Bonus stats" aka ones other than your base.
It goes from 105 Vit with 10 points in Tactics to 215 and 315 with 20 and 30 respectively. As such I have no idea what the multiplier is, but it definitely has nothing to do with traits or gear etc.
Could be a bug, but I doubt it. I believe it happens with power too.

So Avorniel wanted to know a good leveling path for traits and gear, and I'm going to give that to her/him. Basically this build is very situated for max level, and until you get there, nothing is going to be the same.

At level 11 up to 40 (First trait point-Next trait book) I would urge you to use a 5 signet build, with Healing Signet, Signet of Stamina, Signet of Might, Signet of Precision, and Signet of Rage. This type of build is sort of boring, but will be very effective for those levels. Taking traits in Arms, for Deep Strikes, and then in Discipline for Heightened Focus, and lastly in Strength for Berserker's Power. Your gear in these levels will not matter at all, just make sure you are building Power/Precision.

From 40 to 60 you should keep building with Signets, grabbing all the traits from before, and also Forceful Greatsword (Arms) and Slashing Power (Strength). Your gear will remain Power/Precision and wont really matter.

At level 60, the game changes. Buy your next trait book, use it, and put your points in the Tactics line, starting with Empowered, then Lung Capacity, and then Vigorous Shouts. Your last 20 will go into Rending Strikes (Arms) and Heightened Focus (Discipline). Your skills at this point should be the same as Sonic Boon ("For Great Justice!", "On My Mark!", "Shake It Off!", and Signet of Rage). You should grab some level 55 Knight's armor from the Trading Post, and upgrade said armor with 2 Major Runes of Strength, 2 Major/Minor runes of Hoelbrak, and 2 Major/minor Runes of Water. You will use those runes until level 80, by using T-Stones that you get from map completion to transfer them on to any new armor you receive. Once you have that armor, you can go out and frolic, pick up and use any Knight's gear you find (Toughness/Power/Precision) that is better than what you have (Make sure to transmogrify your runes over like I said).

At 60-80 you'll want to put your points into Arms for Forceful Greatsword, and then lastly into Berserker's Power once you reach 80. The gear at 80 is mentioned in the spread sheet.

Overall, as you can see, Sonic Boon only starts to work when you hit 60, and then gets fully fledged at 80. Prior to 60 you can really run any build you like, but a 5 signet build will do fine, good damage, and easy to maintain/use.

I hope this answered some questions for you Avorniel, and anyone else who might have also been curious about this. Thanks for reading the thread and encouraging use of the build

You say SIgnet of precision.. Do you mean Fury?
And for the 11-40 Part can you recommend at what levels to put how many points into whatever trait? And which trait skills to get at those points?

Yes I meant Fury, and the traits are described there as you ask. First get 10 in Arms for Deepstrikes, then 10 in Disc for Heightened focus, and finally 10 in strength for Berserker's power.

See: Taking traits in Arms, for Deep Strikes, and then in Discipline for Heightened Focus, and lastly in Strength for Berserker's Power.

Then and lastly being key words as they show the order in which you are grabbing those traits.
Hope this helps!

Sorry Mate, I realized everything as soon as I posted the Question, But forgot to post back, Guess that was a bit selfish and noobish on my part
Thanks for all the help and Really sorry
If you dont mind may i ask one more? Now im level 21 running the 5 signet Build (Except rage ofcourse.. Not unlocked) And now ive got Deep Strikes from arms... So im wondering how to play the class... Am I supposed to be using my signets or leaving them all passive>

Sorry Mate, I realized everything as soon as I posted the Question, But forgot to post back, Guess that was a bit selfish and noobish on my part
Thanks for all the help and Really sorry
If you dont mind may i ask one more? Now im level 21 running the 5 signet Build (Except rage ofcourse.. Not unlocked) And now ive got Deep Strikes from arms... So im wondering how to play the class... Am I supposed to be using my signets or leaving them all passive>

It's no problem at all ^^
And of course, questions are always welcome!

For this build you are going to want to leave them passive a lot of the time, but there are some exceptions. Signet of Stamina you can use if you are really bogged down with like 3 or more conditions, Signet of Might you can use on "boss" fights (Mobs that are veteran or events), Signet of Fury I only ever use if I need some adrenaline fast (Maybe to use Longbow F1 or stun enemies underwater with spear F1) but other than that it shouldn't be used, Signet of healing should almost never be used unless you are right on the brink of death, and finally when you get Signet of Rage you should be using it in every single fight, it should basically always be on cooldown in a fight.

So to recap, 6-9 should only be used if you really need them, and 0 should be used all the time.
Hope this helps! (Again) haha

First of all I would like to say that your build looks very interesting, and a very possible choice for me once I hit level 80 on my warrior, however, I've also come across another interesting build ( http://www.guildwars...-dungeon-build/ ) which utilises axe/mace as it's weapons.

From what I understand both builds seem to have great DPS and survivability, and I just cannot make my mind up. So i thought maybe you could point out the major differences between your build and the axe/mace build? Which one does more damage on paper for example would be very interesting to know.

Also, I hope that you don't mind that I've linked another build in your thread, I'll edit and remove the link if you would like me to, just let me know.

First of all I would like to say that your build looks very interesting, and a very possible choice for me once I hit level 80 on my warrior, however, I've also come across another interesting build ( http://www.guildwars...-dungeon-build/ ) which utilises axe/mace as it's weapons.

From what I understand both builds seem to have great DPS and survivability, and I just cannot make my mind up. So i thought maybe you could point out the major differences between your build and the axe/mace build? Which one does more damage on paper for example would be very interesting to know.

Also, I hope that you don't mind that I've linked another build in your thread, I'll edit and remove the link if you would like me to, just let me know.

I link his thread all the time for those who want a different build using axe/???

I have a tough time imagining his build with more DPS than Sonic Boon seeing as he misses out on the Arms trait line (Crit, Vuln, Bleeds). His group specifically has two guardians and another warrior, allowing him to get a good deal of might stacks. Most groups aren't going to be as such and you'll end up with about 8-12 stacks constantly with his build. His survivability should also be a bit down as he uses mostly berserker items, however his crit chance might be higher, increasing Omnomberry effectiveness. His use of Heightened focus and Berserker's power is strange to me since he is constantly using his burst. He also loses a good deal of boon support and healing compared to Sonic Boon.

Positive points are that he is a good deal more mobile, and has some CC.

I really can't see his build being better than Sonic Boon, and I'm fairly sure the reason he finds it so effective is due to reliance on those two guardians and that other warrior. (Keep in mind, the more people granting might in a dungeon scenario, the less people who are using it effectively)

I don't know, I'd rather not get into a whole debate on my thread if Strife shows up or something, his build is certainly good if you want to use an axe, but I just don't see it out preforming Sonic Boon all in all.

Perhaps if you wanted, you could post a new thread for comparison of the two builds. I would surely post my piece there.

I link his thread all the time for those who want a different build using axe/???

I have a tough time imagining his build with more DPS than Sonic Boon seeing as he misses out on the Arms trait line (Crit, Vuln, Bleeds). His group specifically has two guardians and another warrior, allowing him to get a good deal of might stacks. Most groups aren't going to be as such and you'll end up with about 8-12 stacks constantly with his build. His survivability should also be a bit down as he uses mostly berserker items, however his crit chance might be higher, increasing Omnomberry effectiveness. His use of Heightened focus and Berserker's power is strange to me since he is constantly using his burst. He also loses a good deal of boon support and healing compared to Sonic Boon.

Positive points are that he is a good deal more mobile, and has some CC.

I really can't see his build being better than Sonic Boon, and I'm fairly sure the reason he finds it so effective is due to reliance on those two guardians and that other warrior. (Keep in mind, the more people granting might in a dungeon scenario, the less people who are using it effectively)

I don't know, I'd rather not get into a whole debate on my thread if Strife shows up or something, his build is certainly good if you want to use an axe, but I just don't see it out preforming Sonic Boon all in all.

Perhaps if you wanted, you could post a new thread for comparison of the two builds. I would surely post my piece there.

I'm not very much interested in which build is the top dog per say, so I won't be making another thread to just discuss that, because both of the builds are very viable and interesting. I just wanted to see some key differences between them before I make my choice, and your reply has been very helpful. Your point about might stacks is a very good one, and it applies to me since I'll be pugging in dungeons for a while after level 80. Thanks for pointing that out.

I have a tough time imagining his build with more DPS than Sonic Boon seeing as he misses out on the Arms trait line (Crit, Vuln, Bleeds). His group specifically has two guardians and another warrior, allowing him to get a good deal of might stacks. Most groups aren't going to be as such and you'll end up with about 8-12 stacks constantly with his build. His survivability should also be a bit down as he uses mostly berserker items, however his crit chance might be higher, increasing Omnomberry effectiveness. His use of Heightened focus and Berserker's power is strange to me since he is constantly using his burst. He also loses a good deal of boon support and healing compared to Sonic Boon.

I can assure you that axe/mace (20/0/0/30/20 or 30/0/0/10/30 ) deals more damage than any supportive GS build or even full GS build

HB in fractals is weak, thats just how it is - sadly... its great (or at least good) for normal dungeons but it won't do well on higher levels and I don't believe anyone who says its easy to land a full combo (especially on cooldown) because every second you can't hit that HB-button (positioning, movement, boss roaming) or every time you have to cancel it, you lose damage compared to the axe

and on a side note, with sup. sigil of battle on bow, you can run with 21-24 stacks of might all by yourself - 100% uptime. you don't need crits to do so, you don't need a guardian or whatever class offers might stacks... all you need is adrenaline. in fact you are actually supporting your group with ~9 stacks of might, or if you really want to go all the way with runes etc 12-15 stacks

you won't even lose a noticeable amount of dps when switching to LB because all you can do before being able to switch back to axe again is F1 + 3 + 2 + maybe 1 autoattack.

I have to guess but F1 will probably deal about ~ 7k (or more?) over time, 3 will crit for 6k+ and 2 is able to crit for 3k (3 arrows 1k each) and deals the same amount of burning damage.

I can assure you that axe/mace (20/0/0/30/20 or 30/0/0/10/30 ) deals more damage than any supportive GS build or even full GS build

HB in fractals sucks, thats just how it is - sadly... its great (or at least good) for normal dungeons but it won't do well on higher levels and I don't believe anyone who says its easy to land a full combo (especially on cooldown) because every second you can't hit that HB-button (positioning, movement, boss roaming) or every time you have to cancel it, you lose damage compared to the axe

and on a side note, with sup. sigil of battle on bow, you can run with 21-24 stacks of might all by yourself - 100% uptime. you don't need crits to do so, you don't need a guardian or whatever class offers might stacks... all you need is adrenaline. in fact you are actually supporting your group with ~9 stacks of might, or if you really want to go all the way with runes etc 12-15 stacks

you won't even lose a noticeable amount of dps when switching to LB because all you can do before being able to switch back to axe again is F1 + 3 + 2 + maybe 1 autoattack.

I have to guess but F1 will probably deal about ~ 7k (or more?) over time, 3 will crit for 6k+ and 2 is able to crit for 3k (3 arrows 1k each) and deals the same amount of burning damage.

however I often use 5 and 4 too simply for CC reasons.

I haven't tried any Fractals yet as I lack the time to do so. I can't believe 100B being that bad, and if it is surely they will buff it.
I don't know where you're getting your numbers for the might stacks there. With his build you get a constant 5 from SoR due to boon duration and signet CD, you get 34 seconds of 3 stacks of might every 25 seconds, this means you get 3 stacks 2/3 of the time and 6 stacks the last third. With Sup sigil of battle you get 3 for 20 seconds on a 10 second internal CD, which means youll have 3 half the time and 6 the other half. Blast combo gives you 3 for 20 seconds on a 10 second CD, same as Sup sigil of battle.

So best case scenario you have 5+6+6+6 = 23, that's only going to happen less than 50% of the time, you'll be at 5+3+3+3 in the lowest scenario, getting 14 stacks of might, average here being 18 stacks of might, and then subtract one or two because the FGJ might is only 6 stacks 33% of the time rather than 50%.

This is all assuming you use LB Burst over Eviscerate, wasting the Adrenaline reserve trait, and giving you less than optimal damage due to a lack of condition damage. Certainly if you were going to build a spec like this, you would use more boon/might duration, less crit, more condition damage, and different traits.

I can assure you that axe/mace (20/0/0/30/20 or 30/0/0/10/30 ) deals more damage than any supportive GS build or even full GS build

HB in fractals is weak, thats just how it is - sadly... its great (or at least good) for normal dungeons but it won't do well on higher levels and I don't believe anyone who says its easy to land a full combo (especially on cooldown) because every second you can't hit that HB-button (positioning, movement, boss roaming) or every time you have to cancel it, you lose damage compared to the axe

and on a side note, with sup. sigil of battle on bow, you can run with 21-24 stacks of might all by yourself - 100% uptime. you don't need crits to do so, you don't need a guardian or whatever class offers might stacks... all you need is adrenaline. in fact you are actually supporting your group with ~9 stacks of might, or if you really want to go all the way with runes etc 12-15 stacks

you won't even lose a noticeable amount of dps when switching to LB because all you can do before being able to switch back to axe again is F1 + 3 + 2 + maybe 1 autoattack.

I have to guess but F1 will probably deal about ~ 7k (or more?) over time, 3 will crit for 6k+ and 2 is able to crit for 3k (3 arrows 1k each) and deals the same amount of burning damage.

however I often use 5 and 4 too simply for CC reasons.

Very interesting claims, care to elaborate a bit more on how you achieve all these numbers?