Quote:So then why practice kata at all if not to improve fighting ability?

I've been asking THAT question for years.

Two things; 1) We don't know if he practices kata. 2) If he does, imagine how good he'd have been if he hadn't.

-John

Your right John, he might have done as well as Ken Shamrock did against Tito. Oh wait, his striking was largely ineffective. Or maybe Chuck Liddell. He did beat Tito, but wait his style was based on a system with kata and then Hack took the kata out. Maybe Chuck could have beaten Keith "Two Left Feet Overrated" Jardine if he HAD still done the kata.

Quote: Lyoto Machida was born in the city of Salvador but soon moved to Belém which is his hometown. He is the third son of the Shotokan karate master Yoshizo Machida. Machida began training in karate at the age of four,[2] earning his black-belt at the age of 13. He began training in Sumo at 12 and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu at 15. He won a number of amateur karate tournaments, including 2001 Pan American Karate tournament.[3] He was also runner up in the 2000 Brazilian Sumo Championships in the 115-kg division. In addition to his Sumo and Karate achievements, he has a college degree in Physical Education. Lyoto's brother, Chinzo, is a Shotokan vice-champion (Australia 2006), losing only to #1 ranked Shotokan master Koji Ogata. Lyoto and Chinzo fought in a Karate Final 10 years ago in which Lyoto gave Chinzo a cheek scar that still exists today. His other brother, Kenzo Machida, is a TV journalist for one of Brazil's biggest TV stations.

Lyoto is well-known for using a variety of Shotokan Karate techniques in his fights. Lyoto used a Karate leg sweep on B.J. Penn in the 2nd round of their fight. He uses a back kick in many fights (they can be seen in his bouts against Sam Greco, Sam Hoger, and Stephan Bonnar). Frank Trigg once said that he got dropped twice in row by Lyoto's back kick in a sparring session they had.

In college he was introduced to Japanese pro wrestling legend Antonio Inoki who took Machida to groom as a protégé. He would continue training, taking up Muay Thai in Thailand and wrestling at the New Japan Pro Wrestling dojo in Tokyo.

Wrestling legend Antonio Inoki noticed Machida early and took him under his wing, soon given the nickname "The Second Inoki" by the Japanese media. Inoki entered Machida in several of his promotions, including New Japan Pro Wrestling's Ultimate Crush card on May 2, 2003, where he defeated journeyman Pancrase fighter Kengo Watanabe. He made several appearances at other Inoki shows, including Jungle Fight 1 in Brazil, where he defeated eventual The Ultimate Fighter 1 runner-up Stephan Bonnar on September 13, 2003, and Inoki Bom-ba-ye 2003, where he defeated eventual UFC Middleweight champion Rich Franklin on New Year's Eve.

At 3-0, he began to fight in K-1's early MMA efforts, with wins against two high-ranked K-1 kickboxers, Michael McDonald and Sam Greco. His last match with the K-1 organization, at K-1 HERO'S 1, he defeated former UFC Welterweight champion B. J. Penn in a unanimous decision. Penn, who began fighting at 155 lb, weighed considerably less than Machida.[4]. In Karate, he was Brazilian Champion twice, and 2nd in South American Championship. He also defeated American black belt Jiu-Jitsu fighter, Rafael Lovato Jr. at the L.A. Sub X [5]

After splitting with Inoki early 2006 as Inoki's management business fell apart, Machida signed with a newly revitalized World Fighting Alliance and began to compete in the United States. In his American debut, Machida defeated Vernon White via unanimous decision at the at WFA: King of the Streets event in Inglewood, California on July 22, 2006. After the WFA went out of business for the second time, the UFC acquired Machida's contract.

His first two fights in the UFC were against Sam Hoger at UFC 67 and David Heath at UFC 70, both were victories by unanimous decision.

His next fight was at UFC 76: Knockout against PRIDE veteran Kazuhiro Nakamura. He won the fight over Nakamura by unanimous decision.[6]

His most recent fight was at UFC 79: Nemesis against former PRIDE FC fighter Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou, winning via arm triangle choke. His next fight was with former UFC Light Heavyweight Champion Tito Ortiz at UFC 84 where he was victorious via decision.[7]

As for asking Machida. We dont have to. He clearly stated in interviews his Karate is what makes him effective and everything he knows he learned from his father, a Shotokan Karateka.

creative, no.. karate is no different. Thats the problem, why do other combative sports (boxing in general) get less scrutiny and are not held up to the same standards? Karate has been proven just as effective as boxing, but when boxers lose time and time again to muay thai and BJJ etc.. its not said Boxing is ineffective, but the fighter was. When it comes to karate its always karate is ineffective as opposed to the fighter. IMO This just stems from ineffective Karateka who are insecure in their training more so than people from the outside, always questioning.. because they dont know.

As for kata not being clear, perhaps your kata experience is inadequate. But kata always has been clearly defined in Karate as to what it is or isnt. Regardless of bunkai, most Karateka know exactly what kata is and its regards to training. The fact that it can serve so many purposes just shows how effective kata training is, not how ineffective so many people preach.

This means Kata, as well is designed to train in all these varios scenarios.

If you think Kata has no benifit to an MMA fighter, then you probably have never worked the right Kata in the right way.

Kimo , which kata do you have in mind?I have some knowledge of some kata. A lot of MMA's find fault with basic kata particulery the chambering of the fist at the hip/ ribs.What they seem to miss is one reason for chambering is to show and ingrain which set of muscles in the upper back should be coiled ready to assist other elements in a strike. Once that is automatic then the fist neednt be kept there in reality, but with solo kata practice and basics practice, bag work, makiwari it is kept ingrained.

If BrianS is saying kata performace alone wont help one iota, then I must agree with him.

Quote: creative, no.. karate is no different. Thats the problem, why do other combative sports (boxing in general) get less scrutiny and are not held up to the same standards? Karate has been proven just as effective as boxing

You're wrong! It has not been proven as effective. If it had how come only 1 person (that i know of), machida, uses karate as apposed to the vast majority of MMAist who use boxing? Chance? No, it's because boxing has proven itself to be reliable and effective.I'm not saying a karate style could not be effective, but so far only one person has notably used it to any great effect.

Quote: but when boxers lose time and time again to muay thai and BJJ etc.. its not said Boxing is ineffective, but the fighter was. When it comes to karate its always karate is ineffective as opposed to the fighter.

Wrong again. I think most people would agree that if a boxer lost in MMA it would be because of the limitations of boxing. i.e no wrestling/ground game.Same thing for karate.

What has happened though is MMAist have found boxing a good system to add to their game.

Quote:

IMO This just stems from ineffective Karateka who are insecure in their training more so than people from the outside, always questioning.. because they dont know.

As for kata not being clear, perhaps your kata experience is inadequate. But kata always has been clearly defined in Karate as to what it is or isnt. Regardless of bunkai, most Karateka know exactly what kata is and its regards to training.

Apparently not. Look at all the threads with different karateka arguing about the purpose of kata. I don't see that it has been clearly defined by karate, only by those who practice it (or do not).

Quote: The fact that it can serve so many purposes just shows how effective kata training is, not how ineffective so many people preach.

A bread knife can be used for many purposes too. Would rather use a a saw to fell a tree though. ( my attempt at wise words)