One final note – if your plan is to respond to this post with a rant against ownership being cheap bastards who are just pocketing all the money and screwing the fans because they don’t want to win, don’t bother. In fact, go away. You don’t know what you’re talking about. The perpetuated myth that the team is intent on screwing you out of your money by putting a bad product on the field is stupid and wrong. Winning teams make more money than losing teams. If the Mariners were completely and utterly intent on maximizing profits with no regard for anything else, they’d have invested more heavily in the product, because winning breeds revenues. It isn’t a lack of desire to win, or a preference for profit over winning, that has caused the team to stumble the last decade. They just made a bunch of bad baseball decisions that ended up doing real long term harm to the franchise. It is as simple as that. They aren’t losing on purpose. Stop believing that crap.

What I like is they are starting to make the "right choices" its not going to happen over night but it is getting better long term. However the ownership should just poll the clowns around here before they make any decision because all the brilliant minds of Seattle are right here over qualified and just begging for a job.

Cheap is relative. When you field a product that is costing $85 million a year to field and teams like the Yankees and Dodgers are spending upwards of $200 million a year it is hard to be competitive. The Seahawks hod to overspend to get players to come here until we were this point a destination team. The Mariners are unable or unwilling to overspend to get the elite players. Can they be developed? Sure, but the cost of a miss is very expensive.

Right now IMO the Mariners appear to be like a lot of teams (Cubs, Twins, A's) they are hoping to hit on a player that has a good history but getting older, coming of a injury. The also like to trade them for prospects and hope to get a good player or 2 back.

Happypuppy wrote:Cheap is relative. When you field a product that is costing $85 million a year to field and teams like the Yankees and Dodgers are spending upwards of $200 million a year it is hard to be competitive. The Seahawks hod to overspend to get players to come here until we were this point a destination team. The Mariners are unable or unwilling to overspend to get the elite players. Can they be developed? Sure, but the cost of a miss is very expensive.

Right now IMO the Mariners appear to be like a lot of teams (Cubs, Twins, A's) they are hoping to hit on a player that has a good history but getting older, coming of a injury. The also like to trade them for prospects and hope to get a good player or 2 back.

Again it is very difficult with room for error.

I'm not quite sure I agree. This ownership has no problem spending. From 2001-2010 the M's were consistently in the top 10 for highest opening day payroll. They cut spending when it was clear the on-field product wasn't matching the payroll. Who can blame them for that? It's pretty clear they're ready to increase spending again. They just signed Hernandez to a record contract, offered premier prospects for Upton, and offered just as much as the Angels did for Hamilton (and it would have been foolish to offer any more than that. It's one thing to overspend to get a player, it's another thing completely to hugely overspend for a risky player).

I wouldn't say they are more concerned with profits than winning, but I'd say its about 50/50. Only recently, when their market share and attendance has fallen off the table, have they decided to make moves that don't seem rooted in PR thinking. They have stated themselves that the goal is to build a winner that makes money, not necessarily a World Series team.

seahawk2k wrote:I wouldn't say they are more concerned with profits than winning, but I'd say its about 50/50. Only recently, when their market share and attendance has fallen off the table, have they decided to make moves that don't seem rooted in PR thinking. They have stated themselves that the goal is to build a winner that makes money, not necessarily a World Series team.

Sports Hernia wrote:Dave Cameron is wrong as usual, I guess being a lapdog for Chuck and Howard pays well?

this is silly enough that I'd like you to explain more... for humors sake

I get the team has sucked for the last few years (decades) and that their change in direction over the last two is frustrating. But this teams payroll was top 5-8 in MLB for a decade, and poor decisions in spending that money cost the franchise dearly.

Now they have decided to mix veterans with young players and tried to sign one big player to bring it together. That player didnt sign.

So, given that Cameron has constantly bemoaned the decisions and leadership of the Ms over the last few years, and again this season... how is he a "lap dog"? All he is saying is they arent cheap... just really bad at spending money? Is he wrong?

I dont get how posters on a sports forum based on an NFL team's board where that team basically did the same thing for a decade, but now has gotten itself out of jail in the same way the Ms are trying to now cant see the relation

Sports Hernia wrote:You're a fan of Cameron, Lincoln, and Armstrong, dully noted. I don't see why you get SO upset when someone's view point differs from yours!

No not upset, just confused by your (and some others) rationale.

The team isn't good. And armstrong and lincoln are to blame. But your comment on Cameron being their lap dog just lacks credibility. Its far from factual (as I tried to point out) and misses the point.

Its not hard to see the Ms are struggling. Camerons thread was to point out its not because the owners are cheap... just not good

Sports Hernia wrote:You're a fan of Cameron, Lincoln, and Armstrong, dully noted. I don't see why you get SO upset when someone's view point differs from yours!

No not upset, just confused by your (and some others) rationale.

The team isn't good. And armstrong and lincoln are to blame. But your comment on Cameron being their lap dog just lacks credibility. Its far from factual (as I tried to point out) and misses the point.

Its not hard to see the Ms are struggling. Camerons thread was to point out its not because the owners are cheap... just not good

Sports Hernia wrote:You're a fan of Cameron, Lincoln, and Armstrong, dully noted. I don't see why you get SO upset when someone's view point differs from yours!

No not upset, just confused by your (and some others) rationale.

The team isn't good. And armstrong and lincoln are to blame. But your comment on Cameron being their lap dog just lacks credibility. Its far from factual (as I tried to point out) and misses the point.

Its not hard to see the Ms are struggling. Camerons thread was to point out its not because the owners are cheap... just not good

You confuse easily then. It's really not that hard to figure it out.

So to summarize, youre assuming Dave Cameron is supporting the moves of Lincoln and Armstrong, the two M's owners...

brilliant.

I guess Im not confused, just gave you too much credit for having intelligent, rationale thought when it comes to professional baseball.

Sports Hernia wrote:You're a fan of Cameron, Lincoln, and Armstrong, dully noted. I don't see why you get SO upset when someone's view point differs from yours!

No not upset, just confused by your (and some others) rationale.

The team isn't good. And armstrong and lincoln are to blame. But your comment on Cameron being their lap dog just lacks credibility. Its far from factual (as I tried to point out) and misses the point.

Its not hard to see the Ms are struggling. Camerons thread was to point out its not because the owners are cheap... just not good

You confuse easily then. It's really not that hard to figure it out.

You seem to be the one that is confused, Hernia. Never in my life would I have thought that I would hear that Dave Cameron was the lapdog of the Mariner's Japanese ownership.

Uncle Si wrote:You're a fan of Cameron, Lincoln, and Armstrong, dully noted. I don't see why you get SO upset when someone's view point differs from yours!

No not upset, just confused by your (and some others) rationale.

The team isn't good. And armstrong and lincoln are to blame. But your comment on Cameron being their lap dog just lacks credibility. Its far from factual (as I tried to point out) and misses the point.

Its not hard to see the Ms are struggling. Camerons thread was to point out its not because the owners are cheap... just not goodYou confuse easily then. It's really not that hard to figure it out.

So to summarize, youre assuming Dave Cameron is supporting the moves of Lincoln and Armstrong, the two M's owners...

brilliant.

I guess Im not confused, just gave you too much credit for having intelligent, rationale thought when it comes to professional baseball.

That's real rich coming from someone that bows at the alter of Dave Cameron, a blogger.

Uncle Si wrote:re a fan of Cameron, Lincoln, and Armstrong, dully noted. I don't see why you get SO upset when someone's view point differs from yours!

No not upset, just confused by your (and some others) rationale.

The team isn't good. And armstrong and lincoln are to blame. But your comment on Cameron being their lap dog just lacks credibility. Its far from factual (as I tried to point out) and misses the point.

Its not hard to see the Ms are struggling. Camerons thread was to point out its not because the owners are cheap... just not goodYou confuse easily then. It's really not that hard to figure it out.

You seem to be the one that is confused, Hernia. Never in my life would I have thought that I would hear that Dave Cameron was the lapdog of the Mariner's Japanese ownership.

Oh goodie another "cameronite", well at least uncle Si has a tag team partner now!

SonicHawk wrote:I like Cameron, but he overreacts quite a bit. I remember with the Jaso trade he about lost his shit. Freakin Jaso.

I don't think the Mariners aren't trying to spend money, they've been a top 1/3rd payroll team for a long time. They basically have only let one major guy go because of money (A-Roids).

They have just made some terrible baseball decisions and with an ownership that doesn't care about the team, it's easy to make the connection they aren't trying.

terrible baseball decisions. its that simple. and it appears their building on those young players is going to be another. If those 4-5 dont start showing signs of being capable baseball players this team may find itself in another 5 year period of utter disaster.

SonicHawk wrote:I like Cameron, but he overreacts quite a bit. I remember with the Jaso trade he about lost his shit. Freakin Jaso.

I don't think the Mariners aren't trying to spend money, they've been a top 1/3rd payroll team for a long time. They basically have only let one major guy go because of money (A-Roids).

They have just made some terrible baseball decisions and with an ownership that doesn't care about the team, it's easy to make the connection they aren't trying.

terrible baseball decisions. its that simple. and it appears their building on those young players is going to be another. If those 4-5 dont start showing signs of being capable baseball players this team may find itself in another 5 year period of utter disaster.

Well, at least if Jack Z gets canned the next guy will have a decent farm to work with. Bavasi left the M's minor league system in worse shape than his reputation.