gfid:Oldiron_79: I always thought thermite would be the best way to make sure "the man" would never be able to recover anything from your hard drive.

They either already have you under surveillance or they don't. If they do, they probably already have the contents of your hard drive. If they don't, you're probably safe just throwing that hard drive in the trash bin at your local 7-11 or gas station or wherever. Nobody's going to find it and decide to go to the trouble of seeing what's on it. It's just trash at that point.

I mean I hope so anyway.

If I found a discarded hard drive in a dumpster or elsewhere, I would totally take it home and see what was on it.

Warlordtrooper:I have a major problem with the tampering with evidence charge. It's asinine and against all concept of property rights that if you own a piece if property those rights don't extend to the ability to destroy in

Been awhile since I took Crim Law, but I'm pretty sure the underlying theory is 'you have no property rights in illegal stuff'.

So, in most places, you can't insure your heroin stash, and don't call the cops if it gets stolen. Likewise, that Monet you stole? You're responsible if anything happens to it, but your property rights in it are severely curtailed, if not non-existent.

So, while the charge here is probably legit, it is kind of a dick move to pile it on him, though. Poor bastard's going to have it rough enough in prison, and if he survives that, life on the sex offender registry.

skinink:labman: Yeah, because hard drives don't already have powerful magnets in them. You'd need a degauser to kill a drive quickly. (Or submerge it in water while its running)

That's what I was thinking. Though small, those rare earth magnets I take from unused hard drives are pretty farking strong. They make nice refridge magnets.

Rare earth magnets are also fragile. I'd like to know what size and pull his magnets were. They couldn't have been too strong or else they would cause a lot of issues just handling them. Even a pair of half inch cube earth magnets have a strong pull and are tough to separate.

Heh, I have this image of the guy's feet sticking together every step he takes, like he tied his own shoelaces together.

I know it's been said in here that distributing copies doesn't make a victim 'more molested' or whatever... but increasing their notoriety can't be a good thing. Not to mention more variety feeds into the creeper's deviancy.

Megan's Law, as it stands, doesn't let these people re-acclimate to society so they can move on after having served their time. My brother is on that list for life after some college party bullcrap with some lying 17 year old. 10 years later and he still doesn't have a job.

What would be the decent thing is to outlaw the public nature of it altogether but I've devised a plan to keep parents aware. 3 levels of sex offense. Rank one gets 5 years probation, counseling, and their name on the list until they complete counseling and probation... and also the original jail/prison This is for your circumstance stuff. One time kind of thing. Rank 2 would be all that +10 years on the list. This is your online-based stuff and your rape. Rank 3 is life on the list plus prison. This is for your serial predator-style sicko.

That way, you keep the farkups in check without ruining them for life and you keep the sickos where you can see them.

STOP BEING REASONABLE! THIS IS FARK! YOU'RE DESTROYING MY WILL TO LIVE! I HAVE CAPS LOCK!

But yeah, agreed. While there are degrees of sex crimes (like the college guy I worked with long ago who liked 13-14 year old girls) and degrees of jail time/punishment, that list seems like it will follow you forever. I don't really like that. But I don't make good newsclips like signing emotionally-driven legislature in front of the victim's parents.

profplump:Firethorn: You could probably take an unpowered drive and throw it across the room without damaging the platters.

Unpowered most drives will take about 300Gs without damage. A lot of them will take 100Gs will running.

The "glass" platters are mostly ceramic with just enough glass to make them smooth. And a lot of platters are still aluminum, at least in medium/low-speed, full-sized drives.

The advantage of glass is better dimensional stability (both with respect to motion and heat), and the substrate itself is cheaper. But it's a lot harder to apply the magnetic media, so processing costs are higher.

gfid:log_jammin: Warlordtrooper: I have a major problem with the tampering with evidence charge. It's asinine and against all concept of property rights that if you own a piece if property those rights don't extend to the ability to destroy in

you're a libertarian aren't you?

I don't feel as strongly as the person you responded to, but it is kind of a bullshiat charge to throw at someone. Of course you're supposed to hide, destroy obfuscate any evidencewitness. Criminals try to get away with crimes.

What next? Tacking on a charge of not notifying a security guard at a bank that you had a gun before robbing it?

TheOmni:I, like many totally normal people, have spent an entirely reasonable amount of time thinking about how I would go about doing illegal things, like building and maintaining a crystal methamphetamine trading company. Including various fail safes and the destruction of evidence in the evident of being caught. Never once did I consider powerful magnets in my shoes to attack a hard drive. So bonus points for imagination.

Warlordtrooper:I have a major problem with the tampering with evidence charge. It's asinine and against all concept of property rights that if you own a piece if property those rights don't extend to the ability to destroy in

You totally have that right.

They just have a separate right to imprison you for deliberately obstructing a lawful investigation of your crimes.

Warlordtrooper:I have a major problem with the tampering with evidence charge. It's asinine and against all concept of property rights that if you own a piece if property those rights don't extend to the ability to destroy in

The 4th Amendment works both ways, you know. If the cops have probable cause that you've committed a crime, enough to persuade a judge to issued them a warrant to go through your effects in search of evidence of that crime, and you start destroying said effects before they can finish their search, then you really can't claim "property rights" here.

omnimancer28:farvour: What? No mention of how this idiot should have been using TrueCrypt?

Judge - Decrypt the contents of your computer for the police.Defendant - Uh, no.Judge - I sentence you to 30 days in jail for contempt. In 30 days you can come back and I will ask again.((repeat indefinitely))

There was an American sigint plane that was force landed in China a few years back, that had trouble destroying all of its drives in time. I've always wanted to see some of the cartoonish Rube Goldberg proposals that were sent to the DoD after that for quick and effective destruction.

...and then, the gorillas take the now-powdered metal and melt them into figurines...

I know it's been said in here that distributing copies doesn't make a victim 'more molested' or whatever... but increasing their notoriety can't be a good thing. Not to mention more variety feeds into the creeper's deviancy.

Denial of due process. It imposes a punishment outside the judicial process with no oversight. Also, the protection against "cruel and unusual punishment" was specifically intended to protect against pillorying (among other things) of which the sex-offender list is an extreme example.

I know it's been said in here that distributing copies doesn't make a victim 'more molested' or whatever... but increasing their notoriety can't be a good thing. Not to mention more variety feeds into the creeper's deviancy.

Megan's Law, as it stands, doesn't let these people re-acclimate to society so they can move on after having served their time. My brother is on that list for life after some college party bullcrap with some lying 17 year old. 10 years later and he still doesn't have a job.

What would be the decent thing is to outlaw the public nature of it altogether but I've devised a plan to keep parents aware. 3 levels of sex offense. Rank one gets 5 years probation, counseling, and their name on the list until they complete counseling and probation... and also the original jail/prison This is for your circumstance stuff. One time kind of thing. Rank 2 would be all that +10 years on the list. This is your online-based stuff and your rape. Rank 3 is life on the list plus prison. This is for your serial predator-style sicko.

That way, you keep the farkups in check without ruining them for life and you keep the sickos where you can see them.

STOP BEING REASONABLE! THIS IS FARK! YOU'RE DESTROYING MY WILL TO LIVE! I HAVE CAPS LOCK!

But yeah, agreed. While there are degrees of sex crimes (like the college guy I worked with long ago who liked 13-14 year old girls) and degrees of jail time/punishment, that list seems like it will follow you forever. I don't really like that. But I don't make good newsclips like signing emotionally-driven legislature in front of the victim's parents.

Captain Dan:As a society, we still haven't found the best way to deal with child molesters/pedophiles. On one hand, they're ticking time bombs and can't be allowed in society. On the other hand, jailing them for life or killing them would waste a lot of human potential.I think we should give them the options of (1) permanent, irreversible castration, along with re-entry into society, or (2) permanent relocation to a child-free island colony for pedophiles.

omnimancer28:farvour: What? No mention of how this idiot should have been using TrueCrypt?

Judge - Decrypt the contents of your computer for the police.Defendant - Uh, no.Judge - I sentence you to 30 days in jail for contempt. In 30 days you can come back and I will ask again.((repeat indefinitely))

Would "pleading the Fifth" cover you against that? It's kinda hard to say, but it seems if we really believed in not forcing people to incriminate themselves, it would.

gfid:log_jammin: Warlordtrooper: I have a major problem with the tampering with evidence charge. It's asinine and against all concept of property rights that if you own a piece if property those rights don't extend to the ability to destroy in

you're a libertarian aren't you?

I don't feel as strongly as the person you responded to, but it is kind of a bullshiat charge to throw at someone. Of course you're supposed to hide, destroy obfuscate any evidence. Criminals try to get away with crimes.

What next? Tacking on a charge of not notifying a security guard at a bank that you had a gun before robbing it?

Actually yes, not only would you be facing charges of armed robbery, but threatening with a weapon (whatever the applicable charge is) if they wanted to, as well.

ladyfortuna:RKade: Megan's law is unconstitutional.How so? Honestly asking.I know it's been said in here that distributing copies doesn't make a victim 'more molested' or whatever... but increasing their notoriety can't be a good thing. Not to mention more variety feeds into the creeper's deviancy.

My take on it is that you are being punished beyond your jail time. It restricts rehabilitation on the premise that you "may" attack again. The way I look at it is that if the State thinks you "may" attack again then you should still be in prison. If you are released then you should be able to start over.

The big problem is the list. I can understand a parent wanting to know if there is a diddler in 3C. But if Sex Offender lists are OK then expand it to all felons. I wouldn't mind knowing if there is a murderer or drug lord nearby. Even a thief. Why can't I look on a list to see if my neighbor likes to take things that belong to others. I would take extra precautions.But his debt to society has been paid and he gets a chance to start his life over.

I think I see a way to make a destruct system that would be pretty reliable and yet wouldn't class as destroying evidence:

Get one of those fire-resistant boxes with a USB passthrough. (They're meant to protect a HD in case of a fire.) Put your drive in there with a thermite charge. On top of it is a control device--enter a code to disarm it for a period of time. There's also a photosensor that starts a timer that fires the charge if you don't disarm it in time. Removing the control unit while it's armed fires the charge immediately. Powering up the drive with the device armed fires the charge.

"Your honor, the destruct was intended to keep my enemies from stealing my ideas. It had nothing to do with the cops."

Oldiron_79:TheOmni: I, like many totally normal people, have spent an entirely reasonable amount of time thinking about how I would go about doing illegal things, like building and maintaining a crystal methamphetamine trading company. Including various fail safes and the destruction of evidence in the evident of being caught. Never once did I consider powerful magnets in my shoes to attack a hard drive. So bonus points for imagination.

I always thought thermite would be the best way to make sure "the man" would never be able to recover anything from your hard drive.

There is a separate charge for possession and use of thermite. Just buy a degaussing coil and set it up

CygnusDarius:rewind2846: THIS^^. Wang will be getting plenty of wang in lockdown, but the real assholes are the "people" (this term used loosely) who created the stuff in the first place. They are the ones who molested these poor kids, and should get as much prison time as possible with a human lifetime. Fark it, bury them under the cell floor after they die.

Farking this!. I wouldn't mind drone strikes on pedophiles, but I fear the most dangerous ones have ties.

fusillade762:Warlordtrooper: I have a major problem with the tampering with evidence charge. It's asinine and against all concept of property rights that if you own a piece if property those rights don't extend to the ability to destroy in

Even if you commit a crime with it? Come now, would you really be OK with someone destroying a murder weapon?

If police have identified something as evidence of a crime, and put it down as a matter of record in a warrant, it ought to become evidence tampering if you dispose/destroy something after being served said warrant.

Gyrfalcon:If you have evidence on your computer the cops really really want, they can get it whether you cooperate by "decrypting" it or not. EnCase or Norton Forensics will defeat most basic decryption that your average mook will have on his porn stash. If you're a big-time hacker, no doubt you have better encryption, in which case it will be the feds going after you, and they will have the time and NSA tools to crack whatever it is they really really want. They only want YOU to decrypt it because they're lazy and because it proves beyond a reasonable doubt that it was you who encrypted it in the first place.

If you've got that kind of weirdo shiat on your computer and the Feds really are after you, the only hope you have is to reformat or physically destroy the drives. Now I know there are technogeeks here on Fark who will dispute this; but from a lawyer standpoint, your drive contents are evidence, and if the prosecutor needs what's on it to indict you and they have the drive, they WILL find a way to get the information off of it. That said, what the hell do you have on your hard drive that needs that kind of encryption, Mr. Putin?

I'm not sure this is true. Joseph Duncan is one of the more notorious child predator/murderers in recent times. In the Joseph Duncan case, it was reported that he had encryted files which have never been decrypted. He refused to give his password, he was already facing life in prison so nothing to lose. Sorry, don't have the source for this, just going from 3 or 4 year old memory.

bugcrusher:Sharing images keeps alive the market. These guys are sick, and should get harsh sentences for exploiting the vulnerable.

Not necessarily. There is the possibility that the assholes that take these pictures and videos do it not because there's a "market" (as in money), but just because they are sick f*ckers. The fact that they share the stuff is just extra.There's also the possibility that in this age of digital photography, where the idea of sending film away to be developed and possibly seen by someone else is no longer a reality, that the people who want this material will instead want to produce it themselves rather than find it online. This may result in a LOT more abuse.

There will always be people who want this stuff. What we have to concentrate on more are the people who make it... dry up the supply by busting the actual exploiters. Get the big fish, and the little fish stay in their caves.

I'm absolutely shocked that liberal Rutgers expelled him!!! Wasn't he just looking at art or something? doesn't he have the right to.......................................................whatever? We need as a society to accept those that are different from us! How was he hurting anyone by viewing images? Especially in the privacy of his own home? Who are we to judge??? lol Rutgers has an ethical standard???? You learn something new everyday!

Data can still be pulled off. A friend used to work for the company that recovered data from the Columbia space shuttle's hard drives. That, to me, is pretty impressive. I'd be jockeying for a job at the place except I'd have to move to frickin' Minneapolis.

I've got a bulk eraser from the 60's that was used to wipe reel-to-reel tape. I have used it to demagnetize a hammer. I'm not certain it would erase a hard drive.

It probably won't. I worked for a plant that shut down and we needed to destroy the information on quite a few hard drives. I got the idea to run them through the industrial bulk tape eraser that we had. (We had at one time produced commercial cassette tapes.) After running a number of the drives through the eraser, I tested a couple and found the data still intact. The cases of the drives are magnetically shielded. We had to get an eraser program and erase the drives one by one.

The_Philosopher_King:I think we should give them the options of (1) permanent, irreversible castration, along with re-entry into society, or (2) permanent relocation to a child-free island colony for pedophiles.

I'm not down with castrating every 16 year old that got caught banging his 14 year old girlfriend.

TheOmni:I, like many totally normal people, have spent an entirely reasonable amount of time thinking about how I would go about doing illegal things, like building and maintaining a crystal methamphetamine trading company. Including various fail safes and the destruction of evidence in the evident of being caught. Never once did I consider powerful magnets in my shoes to attack a hard drive. So bonus points for imagination.

maybe he could have just hopped in the back.... and on the ride, texted mom to take the laptop and put it in the storm drain.

of course, most moms would have just said.. "Good to see you son. I worry about you Cum Wang, why you want get rid of laptop. That waste of money. I do you favor and let you think it over."

gibbon1:The_Philosopher_King: I think we should give them the options of (1) permanent, irreversible castration, along with re-entry into society, or (2) permanent relocation to a child-free island colony for pedophiles.I'm not down with castrating every 16 year old that got caught banging his 14 year old girlfriend.\Glad it's been over thirty years since I was 16.

That is not what I said, that is what I answered. Watch how and who you quote. That was Captain Dan who advocated castration

nymersic:Would "pleading the Fifth" cover you against that? It's kinda hard to say, but it seems if we really believed in not forcing people to incriminate themselves, it would.

The ability to use the 5th Amendment depends entirely upon the knowledge of what information police are seeking for an investigation.

Example A: the police are investigating you for tax irregularities and they are seeking financial documents that you store in a safe. If the investigators already have reasonable knowledge that the papers in that safe are what they are after, you can be compelled to provide the key or combination to that safe because the act of producing the key to the safe is not incriminating you (it is merely giving investigators access to documents they already know exists).

Example B: the police are investigating you for tax irregularities and they are seeking financial documents that you store on an encrypted USB drive. If the investigators *DON'T* know that those documents are on the USB drive then you cannot be compelled to decrypt simply because the 0 and 1 bits on the drive could be random data or data unrelated to financial documents.

Thus the police have to be able to articulate to a judge exactly what they are seeking and how they know it is inside a safe, or on a computer drive. If they can't make the case to a judge then you might be able to use the 5th Amendment. Label your encrypted partition child porn storage as "Gilligan's Island reruns" so you can at least attempt to argue to a judge that the information on that drive isn't relevant to the investigation.