You need to do some more research. That ledger was picked apart and didn't even show what the League claimed it did. Here is Mike Florio's take on what looks like a very thin case for the league. And Florio's column from yesterday. You'll note the much ballyhooed ledger is NOT among the documents the League plans to use as evidence against the players, so perhaps you could enlighten me with very specific citations to facts within this ledger that directly implicates the players? Because the Commissioner could probably use your insightful interpretation of it in the appeal process since apparently they haven't figured out how to use it against the players themselves. Or maybe you shouldn't believe every bit of bullshiat Roger is throwing in an attempt to cover his ass in the looming player lawsuits regarding concussions. The Saints staff admitted they had a pay-for-performance scheme, but there is no evidence that they had a scheme to intentionally injury players. If there is such direct evidence, showing payments made for injuries, the League has not yet disclosed it.

You mean the factually incorrect ledger that wasn't included as evidence by the NFL?

Come on, Goodell. Show us the evidence. You keep saying bounty system, people were punished for being part of a bounty system, but all the evidence says pay-for-performance (which while against the rules is nowhere new a bounty system). If you want to suspend a head coach, a gm, and a player for a year, indefinitely suspend another, and dole out various fines and punishments, that's fine - just do it for the right thing.

The omission of evidence to support the $10,000 allegation against Vilma was the most glaring shortcoming in Friday's packet, sources said, given that incident had been the most explosive and publicized charge. But other allegations also appear unsubstantiated, according to preliminary reviews by the appellants

Oops.

Sounds like Goodell counted on not needing a real courtroom to handle this. Defamation is a whole nother thing.

Hargrove, for instance, got a stiff eight-game suspension largely because he lied to league investigators, the NFL said. Friday's delivery showed no evidence to support that charge

He was suspended for not saying what they WANTED him to say, in other words.

"Finally, we have been informed that several witnesses who are current or suspended NFL club employees are concerned that appearing to offer truthful testimony about this matter would negatively impact their careers," the NFLPA wrote

steamingpile:More selective reading by saints defenders, they released evidence for this case

Yep, we're being selective in noticing that 50,000 pages suddenly turned into 200...which is actually 16, as the figure of 200 pages is reached by printing out every slide of his PowerPoint presentation on the topic, which Vilma's lawyer says is mostly quotes from GW speeches. That's right, Goodell acted like a college kid trying desperately to reach the teacher's threshold for the minimum length of his term paper. What's next, we see the 16 pages themselves have ridiculous margins on top of it? We're also being selective in noting they didn't present a list of witnesses to back their story up, didn't cite the ledger that doesn't correspond to what the NFL says, and cited an online rant by Pamphilon and a Triplett T-P article as evidence despite both being published after the players were punished, and the latter being an interview with Scott Shanle that specifically states how the players didn't take GW literally when he'd go over the top.

Bad form, "nitpicking" like that.

that doesn't mean more doesn't exist.

You keep hoping and praying it does. We'll keep noting that this is Roger's 76th round of "just trust me" bullshiat on the matter.

It wasnt a troll but I knew rob would bite, doesnt matter I have had him blocked for a while now. Hes a bandwagon fan who only started following them after they started winning so this ruins his bandwagon fandom since they were playing dirty.

Fact remains something was going on, the coaches know it and most of the players do as well, only Vilma wants to scream hes innocent, my guess was it was only a ploy to get his suspension reduced and it didnt work so he has to play it out hoping his lawyer can find something......

steamingpile:It wasnt a troll but I knew rob would bite, doesnt matter I have had him blocked for a while now. Hes a bandwagon fan who only started following them after they started winning so this ruins his bandwagon fandom since they were playing dirty.

I'd point out for the 11,000th time that I started my freshman year of college (2002), but instead I'll say I'm impressed he didn't take the "I'm just trolling" out he usually does. Typically he's just that big a pussy, constantly saying inaccuracies because he can't read any of the corrections written on top of him.

steamingpile:Fact remains something was going on, the coaches know it and most of the players do as well, only Vilma wants to scream hes innocent, my guess was it was only a ploy to get his suspension reduced and it didnt work so he has to play it out hoping his lawyer can find something......

Case in point, where the douchebag insists Saints fans say the team didn't do anything. Furthermore, if he thinks only Vilma has protested Goodell's treatment of the team, he's on crack. Here's Fujita commenting 11 hours ago on Twitter - "Ever sit through a bad movie or read 200 pages of complete garbage & feel like you've just wasted a few hours of your life?"

It wasnt a troll but I knew rob would bite, doesnt matter I have had him blocked for a while now. Hes a bandwagon fan who only started following them after they started winning so this ruins his bandwagon fandom since they were playing dirty.

Fact remains something was going on, the coaches know it and most of the players do as well, only Vilma wants to scream hes innocent, my guess was it was only a ploy to get his suspension reduced and it didnt work so he has to play it out hoping his lawyer can find something......

Personally I think they got off light.

"Fact remains something was going on" - yes, a pay-for-performance scheme is the only thing that is factually supported by any sort of evidence; such schemes, while against the rules, are commonplace and this has been admitted by various players and coaches from different teams playing in different eras. The only reason you care so much is because the Saints crush the dirty birds year in and year out, and you're hoping that the falcons can lose their way into the playoffs under a Saints collapse.

Like I said earlier though, every other ITG who likes to beat his chest about the eeeeeeeevil Saints in the "the league says _______" threads always fails to show up in the "turns out ______ wasn't what the league said" threads, so full credit to steamingpile for being unafraid to be the wrongheaded, ignorant doofus he always is in these threads too.

Sargun:steamingpile: Sargun: steamingpile: davidphogan: steamingpile: I think they have Greg Williams feeding them information to lighten his "indefinite" suspension but is hesitant to testify in court.

Given that his Weeners wasn't a denial but, "I accept full responsibility for my actions," I have to think he was caught doing something.

It wasnt a troll but I knew rob would bite, doesnt matter I have had him blocked for a while now. Hes a bandwagon fan who only started following them after they started winning so this ruins his bandwagon fandom since they were playing dirty.

Fact remains something was going on, the coaches know it and most of the players do as well, only Vilma wants to scream hes innocent, my guess was it was only a ploy to get his suspension reduced and it didnt work so he has to play it out hoping his lawyer can find something......

Personally I think they got off light.

"Fact remains something was going on" - yes, a pay-for-performance scheme is the only thing that is factually supported by any sort of evidence; such schemes, while against the rules, are commonplace and this has been admitted by various players and coaches from different teams playing in different eras. The only reason you care so much is because the Saints crush the dirty birds year in and year out, and you're hoping that the falcons can lose their way into the playoffs under a Saints collapse.

Really? Are you serious? Even with the saints recent winning they are still trailing the series, I will admit I miss the days where we didn't even have to watch the game because it was a guaranteed win but it appears they are in the midst of pissing off the sole reason for their winning ways.

And even is such pay for plays schemes are common place they are certainly not sanctioned by the coaching staff, or by the GM, and most teams would stop when the NFL tells the team to knock it the fark off. That is why I think they got off lightly by keeping it going after those meetings.

Also no matter what rob and other saints fans think, the rivalry is just not that big to falcons fans and hasn't been since the 80s. The bandwagon fans they got in the past 5-6 years have passed pats fans as the most obnoxious and hated league wide. Only saints fans ignore that fact.

steamingpile:Really? Are you serious? Even with the saints recent winning they are still trailing the series

Yep, it's a true loser who demands we go back to 1967 and ignore that since the Brees/Payton era began...you know, recent stuff that actually has bearing on today...the Falcons have been dominated to the tune of 10-2. 6-2 since '08, when the Ryan/Smith era began. Plus Brees and Payton have won a playoff game. Just to be a dick, lol, sorry to the sane Falcons faithful out there.

steamingpile:the rivalry is just not that big to falcons fans and hasn't been since the 80s.

LOL, one of my favorite selections of steamingpile's Greatest Hits, "we're not REALLY rivals and no it has nothing to do with the fact that the current team keeps beating us!"

Full credit to other Falcons fans here on Fark, though, steamingpile is the only one in the group insecure enough to insist the sky is green on this topic.