Minneapolis Police Federation union president Bob Kroll and civil rights lawyer and activist Nekima Levy-Pounds do have a few things in common. Neither cares for the mainstream news media. Each believes the other is divisive and does not speak for the majority of his or her constituents. They also believe there is nothing controversial about their recent comments — Kroll’s assertion that Black Lives Matter is a “terrorist” organization and Levy-Pounds’ remark that Minnesota “feels like Jim Crow North.” Other than that they both like action movies, I don’t see these two becoming BFFs soon.

He is referring to a 2009 column I wrote in connection with a racial discrimination lawsuit filed by five black fellow police officers against Minneapolis and Tim Dolan, who was then the city’s chief of police. Though he wasn’t a defendant, Kroll’s name was all over the lawsuit, from allegedly calling U.S. Rep. Keith Ellison a terrorist to his questionable link to the Twin Cities chapter of City Heat, a Chicago-based cop biker club. Images long deleted from the club’s website showed some members wearing patches and other items that the Anti-Defamation League and other groups decried as symbols of hate and white supremacy.

One patch read: “I’m proud to be white,” accompanied by an image of an Iron Cross with a swastika in the middle of it. Another had a known KKK blood insignia. Below it were the words: “Are you here for the hanging?” with a picture of a noose next to it.

Kroll explained then that the hanging displays were not racist but likely a reference to “Beer For My Horses,” an old country-and-Western tune popular with cop bikers. He also characterized attacks toward him by some involved in the lawsuit as little more than a fishing expedition.

Yet, the cops, known as the Mill City Five, won a $740,000 settlement, one of the largest such payouts by the city in recent memory. Kroll does not display any offensive patches in the photo gallery, and an internal probe concluded he never made the remark about Ellison.

Kroll, a 27-year veteran elected president of the Minneapolis Police Federation last year, acknowledges that sometimes “my mouth gets me in trouble.” He has amassed more than 19 internal affairs complaints and was sued twice, though unsuccessfully, for alleged use of excessive force. He believes the mostly unsubstantiated complaints are collateral damage for being a hard-nosed, aggressive cop.

“If you don’t break the law, you have nothing to worry about,” he said.

Read the FBI’s and DOJ’s (Department of Justice) definition: using threats and intimidation to coerce a government or entity to do what they want. That’s what they did, through coercion, through intimidation. Nekima (Levy-Pounds), the NAACP, did not want a grand jury (in the Jamar Clark case), and that was granted. So these demands were granted, but at the end of the day, the result was the same. The trouble I have with Nekima and company is that I was standing in the room at Freeman’s press conference, which was 45 minutes or so, and they weren’t listening. They were talking and planning their counters. When (Raeisha) Williams (NAACP Minneapolis spokesperson) told Mike Freeman that the city was going to burn and it’s on you, I was standing there. That was said. We did not get our way, so the result is we are going to burn the city. That’s threats of violence. (Williams actually said: “You, Mr. Freeman, did not give a fair and accurate portrayal … and let me tell you: If the city burns, it’s on your hands.”)

City Heat?

The motorcycle club? We are farthest from being a racist organization.

And you are still a member?

Absolutely. All we do we ride together a couple of times a year, and we do a benefit a couple of times a year. Yesterday (June 5), we did it for Bob Mercado, who is a Minneapolis cop. Twenty-five-year veteran. His son (Logan Mercado), who is going to be a senior in high school, has bone cancer.

What was your main beef with the police chief and the mayor, in terms of the way the 4th Precinct protests were handled?

Once the law started to be broken there, arrests should have been made.

When was the line crossed?

When they shut down Plymouth Avenue.

That’s a major thoroughfare. They jeopardized the safety of everyone on the North Side, for police, fire, EMT, for 18 days. I spoke at a CC meeting. After I heard North Side residents, good people, say what they said, I was compelled to get up and speak. The majority were black. A lady got up and said, ‘This is my neighborhood. I got my kids out there. There are drug deals going on,’ she said, ‘They are not our voice.’ The media gets wrapped around a very minute sampling that’s very vocal, and they (BLM) get a lot of play.

What was your response to the protest against you personally?

They called me Bob KKKroll.

Where does that come from?

I think it was the Rubén article (chuckles). You can’t un-Google it. That perpetuates it, because they go back to the bike club thing. We are as clean as clean can be. We’re a 401(c)3. We do one fundraiser. We get together with Chicago and greater Illinois. We have a few guys from St. Paul.

How did you react to being called a racist?

Look, I’m a good guy from the East Side of St. Paul. I can take care of myself. I was worried about my secretary there. She’s the nicest girl you can ever imagine. I was worried about her safety. I wasn’t worried about mine. They know where they can find me. We lock the doors all the time now.

Do you give BLM any credibility or legitimacy about the concerns of the relations between cops and communities of color?

I do have concerns about the relationships. We are trying to make them better. The more transparency, the better. I’m a big proponent of body cameras. I think body cameras are going to be our best public-relations tool. I believe there should be no restrictions on data privacy. I think it will reduce complaints, increase transparency for the public …

What’s your relationship with officers of color?

Very good. My board is more diverse now than it’s ever been. You want to hear something funny? I work seven, eight years now at Wells Fargo (2600 E. Franklin Ave.). Great people. Generally, I’m the only white face in the bank all day. One of the BLM protesters, a white kid, he saw me. ‘Aren’t you the union president?’ I said, ‘Yes, what’s up?’ ‘I thought so,’ he said. He walks away. (Another day, when Kroll wasn’t there, the same guy came in.) He starts talking to one of the bankers. ‘What do you think about having that racist cop here? I’m demanding that you remove him.’ ‘You need to talk to the manager.’ The manager there is Ali. He tells me, ‘I heard him for about two minutes and told him to get out of my bank.’ So, here you have a white guy complaining about racism, about this racist white cop, and the bank manager, who is Somalian, says, ‘Get the hell out.’

The cops in the Jamar Clark case …

No questions that they were justified in what they did. It was a horrible deal. Those guys feel terrible. Coppers don’t like shooting people. It’s going to have a traumatic effect on those guys for the rest of their lives. And that’s not something you set out to do.

They are still on desk duty (pending the outcome of an internal affairs probe). I call it the triple jeopardy. They are not going to find anything wrong.

As far as the takedown, anybody in any physical confrontation will tell you to take your opponent off their feet. Cops are trained — no matter what agency, from NYC to Mayberry RFD, for a noncompliance suspect, is to take them off their feet. That’s what they did.

Here’s an intoxicated guy, unarmed, and within a minute, he’s dead …

61 seconds.

There are concerns that they could have handled the encounter differently. Some cops de-escalate, and some cops escalate.

Right. And the way I talk about these incidents is that you can send 10 cops to the same call, and all 10 cops can handle it differently. And none of them would be wrong. With me, back in the day, he would have been hit in the head with a flashlight, and I would look like the bad guy, but he would be alive. Right? Would you rather be hit with a flashlight or be shot?

These guys are not great big guys. When I got hired in ’89, I worried if I was big enough and tough enough to get hit. The dynamics have changed. There is more verbalization. There is more de-escalation.

You don’t have a problem with that?

No. That’s different. But I also think that a cop should work one day without their radios because it would give them interpersonal skills. Either talk your way out or fight your way out. When you are in bad places, negotiations become a key. Sometimes you have to leave with your tail between your legs. Tasers. I never worked with a Taser. You have to talk your way out of things. You have to talk your way to solutions. That has never changed in policing … it’s just easier. You don’t get the bad shoulders. You don’t get the bad knuckles. Every cop wants to go to work every day and negotiate a successful conclusion. But sometimes diplomacy fails, and there is no other alternative.

What would you like people to know about you, whether it’s a member of BLM or the grandmother going to church?

That my heart’s always been in policing. That’s been my dream job since I grew up. Officers that have thick complaint sleeves are also highly decorated. Cops that are doing nothing are cheating the taxpayers. And I’ve always prided myself in being a hard-working cop, and my union work is no different.

From smoking crack in a Harlem drug den for a front-page exposé to covering the deaths of 86 people in a Bronx social club fire, Rubén Rosario spent 11 years as a writer for the New York Daily News before joining the Pioneer Press in 1991 as special correspondent and city editor. He launched his award-winning column in 1997. He is by far the loudest writer in the newsroom over the phone.

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Keep on doing a great job, Mr. Kroll. Ignore the trolls known as BLM who call you KKKroll.

barney911

Keep up the good work Bob.

RobotDudeMN

Good article. Kroll – I empathise with you about the ‘un-googling’ thing. We need a law that is similar to what the EU passed on Google a few years ago allowing people to be delisted from inaccurate articles. Randall Reed.

bannedsmoke

Thanks for your service, Officer Kroll. Keep up the good work.

AverageJoeMN

He called BLM a “terrorist organization” because that’s exactly what it is, domestic terrorists.

Gary Doan

Not holding anything back – “With me, back in the day, he would have been hit in the head with a flashlight, and I would look like the bad guy, but he would be alive. Right? Would you rather be hit with a flashlight or be shot?”

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