If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Maybe because in Afghanistan we are actually going after the group that was responsible for the 9/11 attacks -- a goal we lost sight of when we decided it would be more fun to invade Iraq, a country that had nothing at all to do with the attacks. Afghanistan became a haven for terrorist training following the withdrawal of Russian troops and the lack of support from us or any other country in helping them to recover from years of war. GWB oversaw a masterful invasion and overthrow of the Taliban, only to withdraw troops before the job was done, to free up resources for the war in Iraq. As a result the Taliban reestablished itself both in Afghanistan and in Pakistan, becoming even more dangerous than it was before our original invasion. Now it's time to do the job right. Unfortunately, now it will be harder than ever.

Maybe because in Afghanistan we are actually going after the group that was responsible for the 9/11 attacks -- a goal we lost sight of when we decided it would be more fun to invade Iraq, a country that had nothing at all to do with the attacks. Afghanistan became a haven for terrorist training following the withdrawal of Russian troops and the lack of support from us or any other country in helping them to recover from years of war. GWB oversaw a masterful invasion and overthrow of the Taliban, only to withdraw troops before the job was done, to free up resources for the war in Iraq. As a result the Taliban reestablished itself both in Afghanistan and in Pakistan, becoming even more dangerous than it was before our original invasion. Now it's time to do the job right. Unfortunately, now it will be harder than ever.

And who made this distinction for you?

youtube, Snopes?

I mean where did you get the information condenming Bush & Iraq and praising "The Obama" and Afgahnistan?

The mainstream media??

And you beleive them due to your fervent desire to discredit all things Bush??

I mean where did you get the information condenming Bush & Iraq and praising "The Obama" and Afgahnistan?

The mainstream media??

And you beleive them due to your fervent desire to discredit all things Bush??

stan b

Are you questioning the accuracy of any of my statements? If so, please indicate which ones and your understanding of the truth. I don't think that I said anything very controversial, but would be happy to discuss any misstatements you believe I made in my post.

Are you questioning the accuracy of any of my statements? If so, please indicate which ones and your understanding of the truth. I don't think that I said anything very controversial, but would be happy to discuss any misstatements you believe I made in my post.

I asked you where you get your information on the 2 wars?
What is your criteria for what you choose to beleive?

I question the facts in all stories.

In the entire history of the universe there have been 2 sides to every story.
What prompts you to beleive 1 war is noble and 1 was a fraud?

I offered that it may be tarnished by your desire to discredit all things Bush.
You did not answer the question, but deflected to me questioning your facts.

Well, I can dig up links that support my side with facts as well.

Won't change your mind, you'll just discredit the sources, as though yours are far superior.

Its been almost 8 years and we aren't an inch closer than we were.
Its time to try something totally different.
If what your doing just isn't working and you keep doing it than guess what. The results will be the same.

Its been almost 8 years and we aren't an inch closer than we were.
Its time to try something totally different.
If what your doing just isn't working and you keep doing it than guess what. The results will be the same.

I asked you where you get your information on the 2 wars?
What is your criteria for what you choose to beleive?

I question the facts in all stories.

In the entire history of the universe there have been 2 sides to every story.
What prompts you to beleive 1 war is noble and 1 was a fraud?

I offered that it may be tarnished by your desire to discredit all things Bush.
You did not answer the question, but deflected to me questioning your facts.

Well, I can dig up links that support my side with facts as well.

Won't change your mind, you'll just discredit the sources, as though yours are far superior.

They are not.

stan b

Actually, it would be refreshing to see you contribute any factual analysis. You seem to be saying that all "facts" are arguable and that therefore all facts are simply matters of opinion and not worthy of consideration unless they support the opinion you prefer. That would be laughable if it were not so disturbingly close to the quality of what passes for "balanced" reporting.

With respect to my post, I made certain specific observations:

When we invaded Afghanistan we were going after the group that actually attacked us: Afghanistan was home base for the Taliban. The relationship was not covert. The Taliban happily accepted responsibility for the attacks on the WTC and Pentagon. The Bush administration identified the Taliban as the responsible party and demanded that the Taliban leaders be turned over by the Afghan government following the attacks.

Iraq had nothing to do with the attacks on 9/11: Are you really disputing this statement? The Bush administration repeatedly admitted that Iraq had nothing to do with the attacks and no credible evidence has ever surfaced to suggest that there was any substantive link between the Taliban and Saddam Hussein.

Afghanistan was a haven for the Taliban and this problem grew following the withdrawal of Russian troops and was exacerbated by lack of support from other countries: Bin Laden and the mujadin were recipients of military training and aid funnelled through the CIA which viewed these religious extremists as a strong weapon to combat the Russian invasion of Afghanistan. Once the Russians withdrew, Afghanistan, and the force we had helped to create fell of of our radar. Beginning in the 1990's it began to become apparent that the Taliban was terrorizing the population of Afghanistan and branching out into terroristic attacks around the world. Much of this is described in some detail in Richard Clark's Against All Enemies and is confirmed through numerous other sources.

GWB oversaw a masterful invasion of Afghanistan and overthrow of the Taliban: This is of course simply a statement of my opinion but, I believe, is justified by the facts. The wr was waged by harnessing and supporting the effors of the northern warlords and involved the dedication of very small numbers of special forces troops. By building on indigenous opposition, we avoided the problems of having the action being identified solely as an American effort. The Taliban was displaced quickly.

We withdrew troops before the job was done to free up resources for Iraq: This is not actually a completely fair statement on my part. We did not actually withdraw troops. What we did was to consolidate our positions to certain key areas of Afghanistan and leave most of the country open for a resurgence of the Taliban because the only way to eliminae the Taliban as a threat was to expand our forces at a time when we were preparing for an invasion of Iraq. There are many sources of information on the progress and stages of the war. Wikipedia is as good as any at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%93present)

As a result of our failure to pursue the war to its conclusion, the Taliban has stregthened its position in Afghanistan and Pakistan and will be harder than ever to remove: This has actually been apparent for several years. In 2008 Admiral Mike Mullen, Staff Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said that while the situation in Afghanistan is "precarious and urgent," the 10,000 additional troops needed there would be unavailable "in any significant manner" unless withdrawals from Iraq are made. However, Admiral Mullen stated that "my priorities . . . given to me by the commander in chief are: Focus on Iraq first. It's been that way for some time. Focus on Afghanistan second."

GWB oversaw a masterful invasion and overthrow of the Taliban, only to withdraw troops before the job was done, to free up resources for the war in Iraq. I don't recall ever reading about our troop levels in A-stan being reduced in any given year. They may not have been as high as some field commanders would have wanted (how often does a field general or colonel say, "I've got just the right amount of men and materials so if I don't win I'm a dolt and should be sacked."), but a strategic concern in Afghanistan was, and remains, that we don't have such a huge footprint as to appear like an invading/occupying force. The Afghanis are pretty peculiar that way and have a long history of showing their displeasure towards "occupiers." As a result the Taliban reestablished itself both in Afghanistan and in Pakistan, becoming even more dangerous than it was before our original invasion. By what yardstick or unit of measurement do you make that claim? Before we invaded the Taliban had near total control of the country, ruled with an iron fist, and harbored jihadist terror camps, al Qaeda and UBL. Moreover, do you think it's just a coincidence that the violence in Afghanistan began rising measureably at the same time it was drastically ebbing in Iraq? Or could it be that we made Iraq a very unhealthy place to be a jihadist so they moved on to A-stan? Now it's time to do the job right. Unfortunately, now it will be harder than ever. Right. So if Obama isn't successful, it has to be Bush's fault. Who woulda guessed?

What's your criteria for determining when the job has been "done right?" What will A-Stan look like then?

There is no end game in our Dear Leader's 'Overseas Contingency Operation'. Didn't you hear him last week when he said VICTORY isn't the United States' goal?

He said, "I'm always worried about using the word 'victory' because, you know, it invokes this notion of Emperor Hirohito coming down and signing a surrender to MacArthur"

So let's just continue to stuff bodies in body bags for shipment back home because our President doesn't really want to win this war. He's such a coward.

Bring back the draft or bring everybody home. And with the draft let's start with the President's two daughters. Fit them with JROTC uniforms and teach them 'left, right, left' on the White House lawn. When they're old enough to serve ship the girls over there to fight. And do the same for all sons and daughters of all politicians in this country.

Maybe then Dear Leader will try to achieve victory as quickly as possible. What a disgrace.