In the CFI forum, recently someone with a pseudonym posted a thread apparently to promote ‘wisdom’ of Islam. There he/she complained that Islam gets ‘bad press’, and questioned if there were ‘not some elements of Sharia law that we in the west (sic) would be wise to adopt’.

Among the ‘wisdom’ was ‘conservative dress for women’. After some discussions, the word ‘conservative’ changed to ‘modest’, and there was this question to me, ‘I’m wondering why you don’t think modest dress in public isn’t worth discussing.’

A point was raised that most women dress modesty in America. And the last claim that I saw there was that Muslim women dress modestly to ‘embrace the wisdom of Islam’.

Well, I do not see much wisdom in Islam; and am not interested in participating in that thread, as I believe our un-presidential President Donald Trump’s motto, “there is no such thing as a bad publicity”, even though I am not really a fan of his. I am not willing to add to the publicity of ‘wisdom of Islam’ by putting counter-arguments either.

Now, should women dress modestly? Sure, I believe both men and women should dress decently. In fact, indecent exposure in public is punishable by law even in the very liberal states like Maryland and Massachusetts. “Modesty” is just a degree higher than “decency” in terms of covering one’s body. And most people in the world do dress modestly, irrespective of religious beliefs. Is the average Chinese, Japanese or Indian non-Muslim woman, for example, not modestly dressed? Surely, their modest dress has nothing to do with Islam or rather Islam has nothing to do with their modest dress.

That is all from me for now. Please feel free to discuss if women in the West reveal too much of their body, and how that impacts their equality with men.

In the CFI forum, recently someone with a pseudonym posted a thread apparently to promote ‘wisdom’ of Islam. There he/she complained that Islam gets ‘bad press’, and questioned if there were ‘not some elements of Sharia law that we in the west (sic) would be wise to adopt’.

Among the ‘wisdom’ was ‘conservative dress for women’. After some discussions, the word ‘conservative’ changed to ‘modest’, and there was this question to me, ‘I’m wondering why you don’t think modest dress in public isn’t worth discussing.’

A point was raised that most women dress modesty in America. And the last claim that I saw there was that Muslim women dress modestly to ‘embrace the wisdom of Islam’.

Well, I do not see much wisdom in Islam; and am not interested in participating in that thread, as I believe our un-presidential President Donald Trump’s motto, “there is no such thing as a bad publicity”, even though I am not really a fan of his. I am not willing to add to the publicity of ‘wisdom of Islam’ by putting counter-arguments either.

Now, should women dress modestly? Sure, I believe both men and women should dress decently. In fact, indecent exposure in public is punishable by law even in the very liberal states like Maryland and Massachusetts. “Modesty” is just a degree higher than “decency” in terms of covering one’s body. And most people in the world do dress modestly, irrespective of religious beliefs. Is the average Chinese, Japanese or Indian non-Muslim woman, for example, not modestly dressed? Surely, their modest dress has nothing to do with Islam or rather Islam has nothing to do with their modest dress.

That is all from me for now. Pletase feel free to discuss if women in the West reveal too much of their body, and how that impacts their equality with men.

I’m not saying western countries should adopt Sharia law by copying exactly the way many Muslim women dress. I was suggesting we could learn a thing or two about dressing modestly in the context of the culture we are talking about. It’s really a question of trying to avoid extremes of dress that are designed to sexualize women and dishonor them. It should be a woman’s mind and character that is admired, not their physical appearance. Many young girls feel they have to conform to the sexual images we see disseminated daily on TV, movies, billboards, the Internet, etc., to be appreciated. It is particularly the case that such images are used for profit in countries that are over-liberalized and that permit the exploitation of young and naive minds. This needs to change. Islam is an extreme example thst shows us that there are alternative lifestyles in the world where you do not have to dress provocatively to lead a full life.

I’m not saying western countries should adopt Sharia law by copying exactly the way many Muslim women dress. I was suggesting we could learn a thing or two about dressing modestly in the context of the culture we are talking about. It’s really a question of trying to avoid extremes of dress that are designed to sexualize women and dishonor them. It should be a woman’s mind and character that is admired, not their physical appearance. Many young girls feel they have to conform to the sexual images we see disseminated daily on TV, movies, billboards, the Internet, etc., to be appreciated. It is particularly the case that such images are used for profit in countries that are over-liberalized and that permit the exploitation of young and naive minds. This needs to change. Islam is an extreme example thst shows us that there are alternative lifestyles in the world where you do not have to dress provocatively to lead a full life.

I tend to agree with you here. It’s a shame that young girls fall into the trap of thinking that they have to look “sexy” in order to be noticed, and you’re right that it’s largely the media to blame for that. I’m just saying that trying to regulate such thing by law always fails in the long run. Peer pressure is supposed to regulate how people dress. There are some modes of dress that are acceptable at some times and places (cheerleader uniforms is a good example), but not at other times and places. But that’s just stating the obvious.

I agree as well. If women want to be taken seriously, then they should not dress like prostitutes. There’s a reason prostitutes dress the way they do. But, as a man, it’s not really my place to point all this out. Like so many things, it’s the group itself that needs to self-regulate. I will add that I do feel sorry for young men these days, especially high school and college age. I’ve been to numerous college campuses over the years as my kids went through it, and my goodness I couldn’t believe how girls dress nowadays (not all of course, and not even a majority, but way way more than when I was that age.) And I feel sorry for instructors too. Assuming you’re a hetero male teacher who’s honest, loves his wife, respects women, etc. my god that must be tough having to teach these prostiteens.

Seriously, how can a thread where men seek to determine what women should wear have anything to do with modesty??? Seriously, men reveal too much of their minds.

Well, Tanny, I surely did not think that only men would discuss this subject here when I started this thread. It is indeed a women’s issue much more than a men’s. Why don’t you put forward your thoughts on the title subject instead of complaining about nerdy men? I think when the world would have real equal rights for men and women, there would be as many nerdy women as nerdy men. After all, there is a saying, “you call me a nerd today, you will call me boss later.”

In the CFI forum, recently someone with a pseudonym posted a thread apparently to promote ‘wisdom’ of Islam. There he/she complained that Islam gets ‘bad press’, and questioned if there were ‘not some elements of Sharia law that we in the west (sic) would be wise to adopt’.

Among the ‘wisdom’ was ‘conservative dress for women’. After some discussions, the word ‘conservative’ changed to ‘modest’, and there was this question to me, ‘I’m wondering why you don’t think modest dress in public isn’t worth discussing.’

A point was raised that most women dress modesty in America. And the last claim that I saw there was that Muslim women dress modestly to ‘embrace the wisdom of Islam’.

Well, I do not see much wisdom in Islam; and am not interested in participating in that thread, as I believe our un-presidential President Donald Trump’s motto, “there is no such thing as a bad publicity”, even though I am not really a fan of his. I am not willing to add to the publicity of ‘wisdom of Islam’ by putting counter-arguments either.

Now, should women dress modestly? Sure, I believe both men and women should dress decently. In fact, indecent exposure in public is punishable by law even in the very liberal states like Maryland and Massachusetts. “Modesty” is just a degree higher than “decency” in terms of covering one’s body. And most people in the world do dress modestly, irrespective of religious beliefs. Is the average Chinese, Japanese or Indian non-Muslim woman, for example, not modestly dressed? Surely, their modest dress has nothing to do with Islam or rather Islam has nothing to do with their modest dress.

That is all from me for now. Pletase feel free to discuss if women in the West reveal too much of their body, and how that impacts their equality with men.

I’m not saying western countries should adopt Sharia law by copying exactly the way many Muslim women dress. I was suggesting we could learn a thing or two about dressing modestly in the context of the culture we are talking about. It’s really a question of trying to avoid extremes of dress that are designed to sexualize women and dishonor them. It should be a woman’s mind and character that is admired, not their physical appearance. Many young girls feel they have to conform to the sexual images we see disseminated daily on TV, movies, billboards, the Internet, etc., to be appreciated. It is particularly the case that such images are used for profit in countries that are over-liberalized and that permit the exploitation of young and naive minds. This needs to change. Islam is an extreme example thst shows us that there are alternative lifestyles in the world where you do not have to dress provocatively to lead a full life.

That’s your opinion, you’re entitled to it as long as it’s presented as opinion and you are not suggesting there be law passed against other people’s opinions to force people to dress the way you think they should. Women have a right ro dress as they wish. Moviemakers etc. have as much right to show women in clothing you think is provocative as you have to express your opinion about it. The way someone dresses is a form of free speech—the same free speech rights you use to express your opinion. There are countless opinions in the US and the world that disagree with yours. Your opinion carries no more weight than anyone else’s. Don’t try to impose your opinions on other people and don’t denigrate people who dress in ways you don’t like and you’ll get no criticism from me.

Lois

Spam Nazi is at it again. I knew it was too good to last.
Spam Nazi is at it again. I knew it was too good to last.

I agree as well. If women want to be taken seriously, then they should not dress like prostitutes.

Women who want to be taken seriously don’t dress like,prostitutes. If they do they won’t be taken aeriously. You speak as if you think intelligent women don’t know this and need a man to point it out. Women who want to be taken seriously know exactly how do dress. Women who want to be seen as prostitutes know how to dress as well. None of them need men telling them what’s appropriate.

There’s a reason prostitutes dress the way they do. But, as a man, it’s not really my place to point all this out.

Then why are you pointing it out?

Like so many things, it’s the group itself that needs to self-regulate.

They already do. If you don’t like it, too bad. If women dress inappropriately they will pay the price. They don’t need you to tell them to self-regulate or how to dress.

I will add that I do feel sorry for young men these days, especially high school and college age. I’ve been to numerous college campuses over the years as my kids went through it, and my goodness I couldn’t believe how girls dress nowadays (not all of course, and not even a majority, but way way more than when I was that age.) And I feel sorry for instructors too. Assuming you’re a hetero male teacher who’s honest, loves his wife, respects women, etc. my god that must be tough having to teach these prostiteens.

If an instructor can’t control his responses to teen clothing, he should find anither job where women are unlikely to disturb their sensibilities. Most schools have dress codes and most students have enough sense to dress appropriately. I do feel sorry for the teen boys who haven’t yet learned to control their sexuality, but if they are so disturbed maybe they should go to a school for males only or one that has a more restrictive dress code such as a conservative Christian one. They are going to see women dressed provocatively outside the school. They need to learn how to control themselves. They shouldn’t be expecting women to protect them from themselves. I haven’t heard many young men complaining that girls are dressing too provocatively.

Lois

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[color=red“Nothing is so good as it seems beforehand.”
― George Eliot, Silas Marner[/color]

In the CFI forum, recently someone with a pseudonym posted a thread apparently to promote ‘wisdom’ of Islam. There he/she complained that Islam gets ‘bad press’, and questioned if there were ‘not some elements of Sharia law that we in the west (sic) would be wise to adopt’.

Among the ‘wisdom’ was ‘conservative dress for women’. After some discussions, the word ‘conservative’ changed to ‘modest’, and there was this question to me, ‘I’m wondering why you don’t think modest dress in public isn’t worth discussing.’

A point was raised that most women dress modesty in America. And the last claim that I saw there was that Muslim women dress modestly to ‘embrace the wisdom of Islam’.

Well, I do not see much wisdom in Islam; and am not interested in participating in that thread, as I believe our un-presidential President Donald Trump’s motto, “there is no such thing as a bad publicity”, even though I am not really a fan of his. I am not willing to add to the publicity of ‘wisdom of Islam’ by putting counter-arguments either.

Now, should women dress modestly? Sure, I believe both men and women should dress decently. In fact, indecent exposure in public is punishable by law even in the very liberal states like Maryland and Massachusetts. “Modesty” is just a degree higher than “decency” in terms of covering one’s body. And most people in the world do dress modestly, irrespective of religious beliefs. Is the average Chinese, Japanese or Indian non-Muslim woman, for example, not modestly dressed? Surely, their modest dress has nothing to do with Islam or rather Islam has nothing to do with their modest dress.

That is all from me for now. Pletase feel free to discuss if women in the West reveal too much of their body, and how that impacts their equality with men.

I’m not saying western countries should adopt Sharia law by copying exactly the way many Muslim women dress. I was suggesting we could learn a thing or two about dressing modestly in the context of the culture we are talking about. It’s really a question of trying to avoid extremes of dress that are designed to sexualize women and dishonor them. It should be a woman’s mind and character that is admired, not their physical appearance. Many young girls feel they have to conform to the sexual images we see disseminated daily on TV, movies, billboards, the Internet, etc., to be appreciated. It is particularly the case that such images are used for profit in countries that are over-liberalized and that permit the exploitation of young and naive minds. This needs to change. Islam is an extreme example thst shows us that there are alternative lifestyles in the world where you do not have to dress provocatively to lead a full life.

Who are you to say how women should dress? Why do you think women need you (or any man) to tell them about dressing what you call “modestly”? Why do they need you or other men to tell them that some clothes are designed to sexualize women and dishonor them? Why should young girls need you or other men to tell them they are being encouraged to conform to sexual images? Why should women need you or other men to tell them that other countries are “over liberalized” whatever that’s supposed to mean, and that they exploit young and naive minds? Do,you really think girls and women are not intelligent enough to understand that themselves and need you and other men to tell them? Do you really think girls and women don’t know about how things are in Muslim countries, so they need you and other men to tell them? You seem have an incredibly low opinion of women’s intelligence. It’s apparently common to men, which is why we have so many patriarchal attitudes around us. Girls and women have no sense. They need men to teach them about how to conduct their lives—men who are so much more intelligent and wise and need to keep women in line. . What else is new?

In the CFI forum, recently someone with a pseudonym posted a thread apparently to promote ‘wisdom’ of Islam. There he/she complained that Islam gets ‘bad press’, and questioned if there were ‘not some elements of Sharia law that we in the west (sic) would be wise to adopt’.

Among the ‘wisdom’ was ‘conservative dress for women’. After some discussions, the word ‘conservative’ changed to ‘modest’, and there was this question to me, ‘I’m wondering why you don’t think modest dress in public isn’t worth discussing.’

A point was raised that most women dress modesty in America. And the last claim that I saw there was that Muslim women dress modestly to ‘embrace the wisdom of Islam’.

Well, I do not see much wisdom in Islam; and am not interested in participating in that thread, as I believe our un-presidential President Donald Trump’s motto, “there is no such thing as a bad publicity”, even though I am not really a fan of his. I am not willing to add to the publicity of ‘wisdom of Islam’ by putting counter-arguments either.

Now, should women dress modestly? Sure, I believe both men and women should dress decently. In fact, indecent exposure in public is punishable by law even in the very liberal states like Maryland and Massachusetts. “Modesty” is just a degree higher than “decency” in terms of covering one’s body. And most people in the world do dress modestly, irrespective of religious beliefs. Is the average Chinese, Japanese or Indian non-Muslim woman, for example, not modestly dressed? Surely, their modest dress has nothing to do with Islam or rather Islam has nothing to do with their modest dress.

That is all from me for now. Pletase feel free to discuss if women in the West reveal too much of their body, and how that impacts their equality with men.

I’m not saying western countries should adopt Sharia law by copying exactly the way many Muslim women dress. I was suggesting we could learn a thing or two about dressing modestly in the context of the culture we are talking about. It’s really a question of trying to avoid extremes of dress that are designed to sexualize women and dishonor them. It should be a woman’s mind and character that is admired, not their physical appearance. Many young girls feel they have to conform to the sexual images we see disseminated daily on TV, movies, billboards, the Internet, etc., to be appreciated. It is particularly the case that such images are used for profit in countries that are over-liberalized and that permit the exploitation of young and naive minds. This needs to change. Islam is an extreme example thst shows us that there are alternative lifestyles in the world where you do not have to dress provocatively to lead a full life.

That’s your opinion, you’re entitled to it as long as it’s presented as opinion and you are not suggesting there be law passed against other people’s opinions to force people to dress the way you think they should. Women have a right ro dress as they wish. Moviemakers etc. have as much right to show women in clothing you think is provocative as you have to express your opinion about it. The way someone dresses is a form of free speech—the same free speech rights you use to express your opinion. There are countless opinions in the US and the world that disagree with yours. Your opinion carries no more weight than anyone else’s. Don’t try to impose your opinions on other people and don’t denigrate people who dress in ways you don’t like and you’ll get no criticism from me.

Lois

So you have no problem with the sexualization of women? LoisL,you can’t have it both ways; if you want to be taken seriously for what is in your minds you can’t expect to be taken seriously when you dress in a way that invites sexual titillation.

I agree as well. If women want to be taken seriously, then they should not dress like prostitutes.

Women who want to be taken seriously don’t dress like,prostitutes. If they do they won’t be taken aeriously. You speak as if you think intelligent women don’t know this and need a man to point it out. Women who want to be taken seriously know exactly how do dress. Women who want to be seen as prostitutes know how to dress as well. None of them need men telling them what’s appropriate.

There’s a reason prostitutes dress the way they do. But, as a man, it’s not really my place to point all this out.

Then why are you pointing it out?

Like so many things, it’s the group itself that needs to self-regulate.

They already do. If you don’t like it, too bad. If women dress inappropriately they will pay the price. They don’t need you to tell them to self-regulate or how to dress.

I will add that I do feel sorry for young men these days, especially high school and college age. I’ve been to numerous college campuses over the years as my kids went through it, and my goodness I couldn’t believe how girls dress nowadays (not all of course, and not even a majority, but way way more than when I was that age.) And I feel sorry for instructors too. Assuming you’re a hetero male teacher who’s honest, loves his wife, respects women, etc. my god that must be tough having to teach these prostiteens.

If an instructor can’t control his responses to teen clothing, he should find anither job where women are unlikely to disturb their sensibilities. Most schools have dress codes and most students have enough sense to dress appropriately. I do feel sorry for the teen boys who haven’t yet learned to control their sexuality, but if they are so disturbed maybe they should go to a school for males only or one that has a more restrictive dress code such as a conservative Christian one. They are going to see women dressed provocatively outside the school. They need to learn how to control themselves. They shouldn’t be expecting women to protect them from themselves. I haven’t heard many young men complaining that girls are dressing too provocatively.

Lois

Why do some women and girls dress in a way that is liable to attract the wrong kind of attention in the first place? It seems to me some females like to be noticed and don’t really care about what effect they have on some men. It’s up to both men and women to exercise control yet many females seem to want to do as they please and take no responsibility whatsoever. Sexual responses are hard-wired into the male brain so it is not simply a question of men choosing not to respond sexually to a woman, they can’t help it, although many men (fortunately) possess the ability to act correctly. Some women need to grow up.

Women come from men (fathers) also. They are loved and raised by men too. The future women are molded by both women and men of today. It is a matter of culture. Changing of it would need changes in the minds of men as well as women. For example, quite a few years back I found it disgusting to see the display of the little girl named JonBenet Ramsey, as a ‘beauty queen’, who made sexually attracting gestures. And that was quite acceptable in America, including no media pundits raising any issue with displaying a lovely child that way. It certainly was not JonBenet’s fault; it was also not just her parent’s fault, it was the fault of the prevailing culture. Changing that would take rational discussions and a lot of time.