Well, as this saga comes to an end, the poll reflects pretty much what I thought it would. It is amoral to shirk personal responsibility and let someone else accept punishment on your behalf. Neither party does any good in such a situation. The guilty party escapes without accepting responsibility and facing punishment for his misdeeds. The party who would attempt to take the bullet for the guilty is letting someone else escape justice. That's clearly amoral as well.

So, we are in agreement. All of us. And that's great. Because...

We now can all agree that even if that Jesus fellow really did exist and died on a cross, it would be completely amoral for him to take a punishment on behalf of other guilty parties--and it would be equally amoral for the guilty parties to allow an innocent to take their punishments for them. The idea of the "sacrifice" of Christ is disgustingly amoral.

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” -Sagan

Well, as this saga comes to an end, the poll reflects pretty much what I thought it would. It is amoral to shirk personal responsibility and let someone else accept punishment on your behalf. Neither party does any good in such a situation. The guilty party escapes without accepting responsibility and facing punishment for his misdeeds. The party who would attempt to take the bullet for the guilty is letting someone else escape justice. That's clearly amoral as well.

So, we are in agreement. All of us. And that's great. Because...

We now can all agree that even if that Jesus fellow really did exist and died on a cross, it would be completely amoral for him to take a punishment on behalf of other guilty parties--and it would be equally amoral for the guilty parties to allow an innocent to take their punishments for them. The idea of the "sacrifice" of Christ is disgustingly amoral.

I don't, really. You know, since the Christian god is nothing more than a despicable character from Babylonian mythology. I only bring these issues up because grown-ass adults still believe in this nonsense and base their decisions that affect sane people on destructive fairy tales.

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” -Sagan

I don't, really. You know, since the Christian god is nothing more than a despicable character from Babylonian mythology. I only bring these issues up because grown-ass adults still believe in this nonsense and base their decisions that affect sane people on destructive fairy tales.

Well, as this saga comes to an end, the poll reflects pretty much what I thought it would. It is amoral to shirk personal responsibility and let someone else accept punishment on your behalf. Neither party does any good in such a situation. The guilty party escapes without accepting responsibility and facing punishment for his misdeeds. The party who would attempt to take the bullet for the guilty is letting someone else escape justice. That's clearly amoral as well.

So, we are in agreement. All of us. And that's great. Because...

We now can all agree that even if that Jesus fellow really did exist and died on a cross, it would be completely amoral for him to take a punishment on behalf of other guilty parties--and it would be equally amoral for the guilty parties to allow an innocent to take their punishments for them. The idea of the "sacrifice" of Christ is disgustingly amoral.

Not the same situation. Nobody said you will escape justice, just eternal damnation. Different things altogether.

NoahJ"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi

Not the same situation. Nobody said you will escape justice, just eternal damnation. Different things altogether.

Oh, my God.

This is total bullshit. Since when has heaven been defined as absence of damnation? But with further punishment? You're lying.

Heaven has always and will always be defined as glory, eternal happiness. And the question about how a mass murderer who 'finds Christ' in his heart in his dying breath deserves this glory while Mahatma Gandhi does not remains.

This is total bullshit. Since when has heaven been defined as absence of damnation? But with further punishment? You're lying.

Heaven has always and will always be defined as glory, eternal happiness. And the question about how a mass murderer who 'finds Christ' in his heart in his dying breath deserves this glory while Mahatma Gandhi does not remains.

No, everyone will be judged. Only God will decide what the outcome is, no matter what you, me, or any other says.

"Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

"The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of LIfe was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:11-15

All will be judged. No exceptions

NoahJ"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi

I swear all that just sounds so silly. I read this and think...wow, people ACTUALLY believe this horseshit.

So how do you deal with the conflict between John 3:16 and this other bit of nonsense? Seems like yet another contradiction in a poorly written bedtime story.

Where does John 3:16 talk about judgement?

If you want to talk to someone about their religion and what they believe be prepared to know what you are talking about WRT their beliefs. It does not say you will not be judged. It says you will not perish.

NoahJ"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi

If you want to talk to someone about their religion and what they believe be prepared to know what you are talking about WRT their beliefs. It does not say you will not be judged. It says you will not perish.

It says you will not perish but have eternal life. What, you really implying that Jesus is pulling a little switcheroo here with the language? Eternal life in hell? Is Jesus a lawyer now, too?

I've never seen a Christian twist scripture THIS hard before. You're scrambling to reconcile things that just don't fucking make any sense together.

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” -Sagan

If you want to talk to someone about their religion and what they believe be prepared to know what you are talking about WRT their beliefs. It does not say you will not be judged. It says you will not perish.

You don't get it. After Christ's sacrifice, there is still judgment at the pearly gates, but the ONLY judgment is whether you have Jesus in your heart. From there it's either heaven, glory, eternal joy, or hell and eternal damnation and suffering. Jesus is the only factor involved.

You don't get it. After Christ's sacrifice, there is still judgment at the pearly gates, but the ONLY judgment is whether you have Jesus in your heart. From there it's either heaven, glory, eternal joy, or hell and eternal damnation and suffering. Jesus is the only factor involved.

It is worse than that, even. Jews don't believe in hell - so not only did Christianity add extra good stuff for evil people that repent at the last minute, it also added extra bad stuff for people who do not accept Jesus.

Seriously if he wants to tweet pictures of his dick, so what? It's easy to be judgemental, especially if you find it foul, like me, but I'm not him and it's not my place to step in and make judgements about something that's personal (not personal enough though) to him.

I haven't read any of the artocles on it and so all I know is that he has a wife and there's some things happening with other women. I don't know if he's harrassed anyone or crossed lines that shouldn't be crossed. I do know he lied, but what kind of society do we think we have? One that has to know the truth about things that are private or be damned?

Just more pandering to the holier than thou crowd if you ask me.

"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.

You don't get it. After Christ's sacrifice, there is still judgment at the pearly gates, but the ONLY judgment is whether you have Jesus in your heart. From there it's either heaven, glory, eternal joy, or hell and eternal damnation and suffering. Jesus is the only factor involved.

No, I get it. BR And you are trying to claim I have said something I have not. Just because a person says something now does not mean you will not have to stand judgement. The laws you will stand under will not be dismissed. The outcome will be as it should.

I will be out of reach for about a week, so this may be my last post for a while.

NoahJ"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi

It started with the Republicans. It continued with several Democrats. I'm very pissed at Obama and Pelosi and the rest who defended Clinton but left Weiner limp and out in the cold.

I don't see the Politicaloutsider Conservative lynch mob out for David Vitter, either. Why are you not calling for his resignation? Do you think tweeting your penis is worse than soliciting prostitution?

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” -Sagan

It started with the Republicans. It continued with several Democrats. I'm very pissed at Obama and Pelosi and the rest who defended Clinton but left Weiner limp and out in the cold.

I don't see the Politicaloutsider Conservative lynch mob out for David Vitter, either. Why are you not calling for his resignation? Do you think tweeting your penis is worse than soliciting prostitution?

I didn't call for his resignation. I did the exact opposite. Can you please make several more sentences like the one above. They make me giggle like a Japanese school girl.

This is total bullshit. Since when has heaven been defined as absence of damnation? But with further punishment? You're lying.

Heaven has always and will always be defined as glory, eternal happiness. And the question about how a mass murderer who 'finds Christ' in his heart in his dying breath deserves this glory while Mahatma Gandhi does not remains.

This may surprise you, but I agree. This is something I've never been comfortable with. Christians believe that only through Christ will they find eternal salvation. My question is: Does that really mean that something like 4.5 billion non-Christians go to hell? I have a lot of trouble with that. The only way out of that would be if, in the immediate moments before death (at the moment of death perhaps), they have an epiphany and suddenly accept Christ. I suppose that is possible. What I do not believe is that God would condemn billions to eternal hell just because they never even had the opportunity to know Jesus. I believe more in a "final judgement" of one's beliefs, actions, etc. This is inconsistent with many protestant teachings, but since I also don't believe the bible is completely and totally the word of God, I'm OK with that (that's another topic, but in short I believe some of the bible is, and some is not. There is not question it has been edited and revised for many reasons by mankind).

I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either.