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Well, she wrote good stuff for Steve and Kayla during the strike. It was when the show dropped everything and transitioned in May for whatever reason that she screwed up with them.

J&M actually had decent stuff IMO. It's not close to being perfect but not horrible. I know J&M fans are going nuts over Ava but I do think in the long run that can be used to help the story and add some depth to it. They can play off the fact that John turned to her and not Marlena and Marlena can realize she needs to accept John and so on. It still fits nicely IMO.

I know J&M fans are going nuts over Ava but I do think in the long run that can be used to help the story and add some depth to it. They can play off the fact that John turned to her and not Marlena and Marlena can realize she needs to accept John and so on. It still fits nicely IMO.

Do you think they'll do that? These writers have no skills in the 'followup' department. Just look at Steve & Kayla. In fact, in the J&M spoilers, John's over Ava in a second. In my mind, there is zero chance that the writers will use the Ava storyline to strengthen the J&M relationship.

I know J&M fans are going nuts over Ava but I do think in the long run that can be used to help the story and add some depth to it. They can play off the fact that John turned to her and not Marlena and Marlena can realize she needs to accept John and so on. It still fits nicely IMO.

Do you think they'll do that? These writers have no skills in the 'followup' department. Just look at Steve & Kayla. In fact, in the J&M spoilers, John's over Ava in a second. In my mind, there is zero chance that the writers will use the Ava storyline to strengthen the J&M relationship.

From the looks of upcoming spoilers, things seem to be clicking. Regardless, the reason I have hope it will is because they kept making a big deal out of John being drawn to Ava because she accepts him for who he is. There are no expectations. It's the same thing they mentioned when he flirted with Anna and Nicole before and also it was why he bonded with Claire. None of them had any demands or expectations of him. It's the one part of the story that really has been followed through on IMO so I do have some hope they will at least use the Ava aspect in some respect. Doesn't mean they will but I think there is a good chance.

I know J&M fans are going nuts over Ava but I do think in the long run that can be used to help the story and add some depth to it. They can play off the fact that John turned to her and not Marlena and Marlena can realize she needs to accept John and so on. It still fits nicely IMO.

Do you think they'll do that? These writers have no skills in the 'followup' department. Just look at Steve & Kayla. In fact, in the J&M spoilers, John's over Ava in a second. In my mind, there is zero chance that the writers will use the Ava storyline to strengthen the J&M relationship.

From the looks of upcoming spoilers, things seem to be clicking. Regardless, the reason I have hope it will is because they kept making a big deal out of John being drawn to Ava because she accepts him for who he is. There are no expectations. It's the same thing they mentioned when he flirted with Anna and Nicole before and also it was why he bonded with Claire. None of them had any demands or expectations of him. It's the one part of the story that really has been followed through on IMO so I do have some hope they will at least use the Ava aspect in some respect. Doesn't mean they will but I think there is a good chance.

LOL about who's writing. But I'm really not sure what you're saying - you're saying that because John keeps flirting with different women who like the "new John", that will somehow be worked into the story to strengthen the J&M relationship?

I know J&M fans are going nuts over Ava but I do think in the long run that can be used to help the story and add some depth to it. They can play off the fact that John turned to her and not Marlena and Marlena can realize she needs to accept John and so on. It still fits nicely IMO.

Do you think they'll do that? These writers have no skills in the 'followup' department. Just look at Steve & Kayla. In fact, in the J&M spoilers, John's over Ava in a second. In my mind, there is zero chance that the writers will use the Ava storyline to strengthen the J&M relationship.

From the looks of upcoming spoilers, things seem to be clicking. Regardless, the reason I have hope it will is because they kept making a big deal out of John being drawn to Ava because she accepts him for who he is. There are no expectations. It's the same thing they mentioned when he flirted with Anna and Nicole before and also it was why he bonded with Claire. None of them had any demands or expectations of him. It's the one part of the story that really has been followed through on IMO so I do have some hope they will at least use the Ava aspect in some respect. Doesn't mean they will but I think there is a good chance.

LOL about who's writing. But I'm really not sure what you're saying - you're saying that because John keeps flirting with different women who like the "new John", that will somehow be worked into the story to strengthen the J&M relationship?

Well, I think it could be used to help Marlena come to the realization that John keeps distancing himself from her more and more because she won't even attempt to accept him. She tried briefly but couldn't seem to do it. If they needed too, they could even go back to Marlena leaving twice and use that by having Marlena explain she's scared because she doesn't want to get hurt and she doesn't want to hurt him. She doesn't know what to expect from him or how it would be like being involved with him because he's shady. It's like 1986 all over again. She has to let herself go gradually. She has to learn to trust him and to accept him for all he is and all that comes with him. Meanwhile, he has to learn alot as well.

I know it's hard to trust the show as far as all this goes but I do think the Ava thing will be used as a springboard in some way. I think Marlena will ask John why he turns to other woman and not her after all she's done for him and then it will go from there. I really do think we will at least get that much.

Well, I think it could be used to help Marlena come to the realization that John keeps distancing himself from her more and more because she won't even attempt to accept him. She tried briefly but couldn't seem to do it. If they needed too, they could even go back to Marlena leaving twice and use that by having Marlena explain she's scared because she doesn't want to get hurt and she doesn't want to hurt him. She doesn't know what to expect from him or how it would be like being involved with him because he's shady. It's like 1986 all over again. She has to let herself go gradually. She has to learn to trust him and to accept him for all he is and all that comes with him. Meanwhile, he has to learn alot as well.

I know it's hard to trust the show as far as all this goes but I do think the Ava thing will be used as a springboard in some way. I think Marlena will ask John why he turns to other woman and not her after all she's done for him and then it will go from there. I really do think we will at least get that much.

I was semi-agreeing with you till the 1986 sentence, lol. But I think this is nothing like 1986. This should have been written like that, but it hasn't been at all. In 1986, J&M fell in love even though Marlena didn't have the slightest clue who John was. Marlena tried to help John recover his past, and in her doing so, they grew even closer. Here, Marlena isn't trying to accept the new John. She did once - remember that scene where they danced before she left for Colorado the first time? She told John she was falling for him. But then the writers moved away from that entirely. And there is no way that J&M can grow closer when the way Marlena's trying to help John recover his past is by hiring someone to glue together a computer disk.

I really don't think Marlena and John will discuss why he's turned to other women. If the writers have learned anything at all from the Steve/Kayla/Ava story, perhaps they'll put it in, but with these writers, every learning curve seems to be particularly steep.

Well, I think it could be used to help Marlena come to the realization that John keeps distancing himself from her more and more because she won't even attempt to accept him. She tried briefly but couldn't seem to do it. If they needed too, they could even go back to Marlena leaving twice and use that by having Marlena explain she's scared because she doesn't want to get hurt and she doesn't want to hurt him. She doesn't know what to expect from him or how it would be like being involved with him because he's shady. It's like 1986 all over again. She has to let herself go gradually. She has to learn to trust him and to accept him for all he is and all that comes with him. Meanwhile, he has to learn alot as well.

I know it's hard to trust the show as far as all this goes but I do think the Ava thing will be used as a springboard in some way. I think Marlena will ask John why he turns to other woman and not her after all she's done for him and then it will go from there. I really do think we will at least get that much.

I was semi-agreeing with you till the 1986 sentence, lol. But I think this is nothing like 1986. This should have been written like that, but it hasn't been at all. In 1986, J&M fell in love even though Marlena didn't have the slightest clue who John was. Marlena tried to help John recover his past, and in her doing so, they grew even closer. Here, Marlena isn't trying to accept the new John. She did once - remember that scene where they danced before she left for Colorado the first time? She told John she was falling for him. But then the writers moved away from that entirely. And there is no way that J&M can grow closer when the way Marlena's trying to help John recover his past is by hiring someone to glue together a computer disk.

I really don't think Marlena and John will discuss why he's turned to other women. If the writers have learned anything at all from the Steve/Kayla/Ava story, perhaps they'll put it in, but with these writers, every learning curve seems to be particularly steep.

We will have to disagree about 1986. I see similarities but moving on...

I think the fact they made a big deal out of John distancing himself from people who don't accept him or try to is a good sign for at least getting some of what we are discussing mentioned. The writers seem to be driving that point home and I do think having Marlena leave twice (the real reason, and I know Dee or the show never mentioned this, was they knew they had to use Dee alot later and wanted to make sure she didn't go over guarantee) was to show her difficulty in dealing with John and accepting him. She was confused and it was easier to run. It's like John said after the second time...Eric's injuries were minor. She used it as an excuse to stay away for a bit.

I think they can still make this all work and click together. Remember, Draughon was promoted recently and things have improved slightly so who knows. it was too late with Kayla/Steve/Ava but it's not too late here. We'll see. I hope we get some stuff like this but I'm also one who could care less if J&M get back together so go figure LOL.

We will have to disagree about 1986. I see similarities but moving on...

No problem.

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The writers seem to be driving that point home and I do think having Marlena leave twice (the real reason, and I know Dee or the show never mentioned this, was they knew they had to use Dee alot later and wanted to make sure she didn't go over guarantee)

I'm curious, since you've posted that so many times (and it's not correct) - do you think Deidre was lying when she told SOD that the time off was for no reason? I mean, she's worked in the business over 30 years, and she knows how guarantees work. Why would she have said that to SOD? She's certainly had time off before because of her guarantee - I'm not denying that. But she's never said previously that any of the time off because of her guarantee was for no reason. (Oh, and I'm referring to Marlena's second trip to Colorado. Marlena's first trip was because Deidre took a week off in March for her kids' school vacation.)

Quote:

was to show her difficulty in dealing with John and accepting him. She was confused and it was easier to run. It's like John said after the second time...Eric's injuries were minor. She used it as an excuse to stay away for a bit.

Actually, I think it was the writers who used that as an excuse - to bring Ava on.

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I think they can still make this all work and click together. Remember, Draughon was promoted recently and things have improved slightly so who knows. it was too late with Kayla/Steve/Ava but it's not too late here. We'll see. I hope we get some stuff like this but I'm also one who could care less if J&M get back together so go figure LOL.

Disagreements aside, lol, thanks for explaining it, and I do understand your point now. I'm very doubtful though. But since I do care if J&M get back together - I certainly hope you're right!

We will have to disagree about 1986. I see similarities but moving on...

No problem.

Quote:

The writers seem to be driving that point home and I do think having Marlena leave twice (the real reason, and I know Dee or the show never mentioned this, was they knew they had to use Dee alot later and wanted to make sure she didn't go over guarantee)

I'm curious, since you've posted that so many times (and it's not correct) - do you think Deidre was lying when she told SOD that the time off was for no reason? I mean, she's worked in the business over 30 years, and she knows how guarantees work. Why would she have said that to SOD? She's certainly had time off before because of her guarantee - I'm not denying that. But she's never said previously that any of the time off because of her guarantee was for no reason. (Oh, and I'm referring to Marlena's second trip to Colorado. Marlena's first trip was because Deidre took a week off in March for her kids' school vacation.)

I don't think Dee lied, Ellie. I don't think the show even told her. I do think that was the reason but they wouldn't want it getting out anyway. They try their best to cover up their financial mismanagement, although they clearly do a poor job of it LOL. I do think Dee kind of knows now though but at that time I don't think she did.

Having said that, it is possible for actors to lie. I don't care who it is. Maybe Dee was told not to say anything. Who knows. I have my faves too but even I know and understand that they lie at times. It's part of the business. There is just some things shows don't want out and, in some cases, some things actors and actresses don't want out as well.