Yeah, so this gets to the heart of the matter. There does seem to be an anti-studio feeling behind some of this. And that’s why these people also tend not to be very impressed by Phil Spector’s music or Good Vibrations and Pet Sounds by the Beach Boys or even Marvin Gaye’s What’s Going On. The idea is that real men should get out there with their real instruments and play their own songs, and forget about all that studio trickery. In my experience these people also have a bit of a problem with drum machines and synthesizers.

Very well said. I don’t get the bias against studio work either. Art is art, although it can be expressed in many ways. To each his own.

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Free in Kentucky—Humanist
“I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it.”—Edith Sitwell

Yeah, so this gets to the heart of the matter. There does seem to be an anti-studio feeling behind some of this. And that’s why these people also tend not to be very impressed by Phil Spector’s music or Good Vibrations and Pet Sounds by the Beach Boys or even Marvin Gaye’s What’s Going On. The idea is that real men should get out there with their real instruments and play their own songs, and forget about all that studio trickery. In my experience these people also have a bit of a problem with drum machines and synthesizers.

Very well said. I don’t get the bias against studio work either. Art is art, although it can be expressed in many ways. To each his own.

The Beatles were never great virtuoso musicians, but they were first rate composers. I place them on par with with any of the great popular composers.

As to the definition of Art, true it comes in many forms, but to me for art to rate the a capital “A” it has to offer a deep and lasting emotional content.

I fashioned my signature on that premise.

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Art is the creation of that which evokes an emotional response, leading to thoughts of the noblest kind.W4U

It always makes me laugh when I hear Americans (they usually are Americans) say that they love Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, the Stones, the Who, and so on, but that the Beatles are overrated! Have these people actually listened to the White Album or Revolver? Or John Lennon’s solo albums like Plastic Ono Band? Personally I prefer other bands to the Beatles, but they definitely were great.

Yes and Pink Floyd went out and took Atom Heart Mother or Dark Side or The Wall on the road. Exhaustively touring those shows world wide.
The Stones did massive World Tours. The Who played Tommy and Quadrophenia from start to finish live show after show. And these performances were all and all faithful reproductions of their LP performances.
The Beatles sat in the studio and let George Martin bounce ideas off their heads.

Yeah, so this gets to the heart of the matter. There does seem to be an anti-studio feeling behind some of this. And that’s why these people also tend not to be very impressed by Phil Spector’s music or Good Vibrations and Pet Sounds by the Beach Boys or even Marvin Gaye’s What’s Going On. The idea is that real men should get out there with their real instruments and play their own songs, and forget about all that studio trickery. In my experience these people also have a bit of a problem with drum machines and synthesizers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO43p2Wqc08 To play live you have to be macho? Studio groups like the one in this clip will disagree!! Some music is really great live, some isn’t. FWIW, I’ve think “Pet Sounds” is great, Spector’s stuff is too - although the lyrics can be a little bit teenybop. However, if I was a teen in the 60’s, I would not want to go see the Beach Boys or the Ronnetts live at all.

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“I am back from Syria. I believe I have enlightened ISIS to the error of their ways. They are all vegan now.” - Godfrey Elfwick

It always makes me laugh when I hear Americans (they usually are Americans) say that they love Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, the Stones, the Who, and so on, but that the Beatles are overrated! Have these people actually listened to the White Album or Revolver? Or John Lennon’s solo albums like Plastic Ono Band? Personally I prefer other bands to the Beatles, but they definitely were great.

Yes and Pink Floyd went out and took Atom Heart Mother or Dark Side or The Wall on the road. Exhaustively touring those shows world wide.
The Stones did massive World Tours. The Who played Tommy and Quadrophenia from start to finish live show after show. And these performances were all and all faithful reproductions of their LP performances.
The Beatles sat in the studio and let George Martin bounce ideas off their heads.

Yeah, so this gets to the heart of the matter. There does seem to be an anti-studio feeling behind some of this. And that’s why these people also tend not to be very impressed by Phil Spector’s music or Good Vibrations and Pet Sounds by the Beach Boys or even Marvin Gaye’s What’s Going On. The idea is that real men should get out there with their real instruments and play their own songs, and forget about all that studio trickery. In my experience these people also have a bit of a problem with drum machines and synthesizers.

Sometimes maybe, but that’s not the case with me. I’m a big Prog Rock fan- King Crimson, Yes, ELP, Floyd, Tangerine Dream etc.
I’m just saying there’s something to be said for playing your compositions live. Like all of the above mentioned bands have or still do. I like Good Vibrations and Pet Sounds. Smile....not so much.

As to the definition of Art, true it comes in many forms, but to me for art to rate the a capital “A” it has to offer a deep and lasting emotional content.

Very true. And that emotional content is different for each person. My art may be your rubbish and vice-versa.

True, but then art (craft) is merely a form (subset) of Art. There are but a few artistic creations whch merit the title Art, because they evoke a universal emotional response, which lead to serious reflection of the human condition and our relationship to the world around us.

How does an artwork become timeless? It continues to have impact on all who observe and emotionally experience its content.

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Art is the creation of that which evokes an emotional response, leading to thoughts of the noblest kind.W4U

It always makes me laugh when I hear Americans (they usually are Americans) say that they love Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, the Stones, the Who, and so on, but that the Beatles are overrated! Have these people actually listened to the White Album or Revolver? Or John Lennon’s solo albums like Plastic Ono Band? Personally I prefer other bands to the Beatles, but they definitely were great.

Yes and Pink Floyd went out and took Atom Heart Mother or Dark Side or The Wall on the road. Exhaustively touring those shows world wide.
The Stones did massive World Tours. The Who played Tommy and Quadrophenia from start to finish live show after show. And these performances were all and all faithful reproductions of their LP performances.
The Beatles sat in the studio and let George Martin bounce ideas off their heads.

Yeah, so this gets to the heart of the matter. There does seem to be an anti-studio feeling behind some of this. And that’s why these people also tend not to be very impressed by Phil Spector’s music or Good Vibrations and Pet Sounds by the Beach Boys or even Marvin Gaye’s What’s Going On. The idea is that real men should get out there with their real instruments and play their own songs, and forget about all that studio trickery. In my experience these people also have a bit of a problem with drum machines and synthesizers.

Sometimes maybe, but that’s not the case with me. I’m a big Prog Rock fan- King Crimson, Yes, ELP, Floyd, Tangerine Dream etc.
I’m just saying there’s something to be said for playing your compositions live. Like all of the above mentioned bands have or still do. I like Good Vibrations and Pet Sounds. Smile....not so much.

You like Tangerine Dream? How about other “Krautrock” groups like Can and Neu? I love ‘em.

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“I am back from Syria. I believe I have enlightened ISIS to the error of their ways. They are all vegan now.” - Godfrey Elfwick

I used to be a huge Beatles fan, but the moment I heard Captain Beefheart’s Trout Mask Replica, my perception on rock music changed. Now I find the vast majority of their stuff boring and not worth my time, with the exception of tracks like “Tomorrow Never Knows” or “I am the Walrus”.

Kudos to you. Safe as Milk and Mirror Man Sessions are two of the most under appreciated albums of all time. Damn near every 1980s Hair Bands based their their careers on the riffs in Safe as Milk (Take 12), just one of Beefheart’s songs.

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You cannot have a rational discussion with someone who holds irrational beliefs.

Bull pucks. If it ain’t Heavy Metal then just how do you define “Heavy Metal”?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6gq0dy2d8s&feature=related Some fellow Texans. Metal is an attitude as much as a sound. On the technical side, the sound equipment needed to produce that type of music might not have existed in 1968. More to the point, the Beatles just don’t have the right attitude.

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“I am back from Syria. I believe I have enlightened ISIS to the error of their ways. They are all vegan now.” - Godfrey Elfwick

You like Tangerine Dream? How about other “Krautrock” groups like Can and Neu? I love ‘em.

I’ve heard very little other Krautrock. The little I’ve heard though I liked for the most part.
My TD favorites are: Rubycon, Zeit, Sorcerer Soundtrack, Atem, Phaedra and Froese’s Aqua.
I’ve recently gotten into the hobby-entry level of composing this type music myself.
I bought a guitar effects processor and it came with Cubase Recording software. I had absolutely no experience with computer sound recording and engineering. That has opened up a whole new world of fun.

Rooted in skiffle and 1950s rock and roll, the group later worked in many genres ranging from pop ballads to psychedelic rock, often incorporating classical and other elements in innovative ways.

Their unprecedented success:

The Beatles are the best-selling band in history, with estimated sales of over one billion units. They have had more number-one albums on the UK charts and have held the top spot longer than any other musical act. According to the RIAA, they have sold more albums in the US than any other artist, and in 2008 they topped Billboard magazine’s list of the all-time most successful Hot 100 artists.

Although the theme is ageing, it was one of the first songs McCartney wrote, when he was sixteen. The Beatles used it in the early days as a song they could play when the amplifiers broke down or the electricity went off.

Instrumentation:

A clarinet trio (two B-flat soprano clarinets and a bass clarinet) is featured prominently in the song, unusual in most music genres, but particularly in the context of rock and roll. Scored by Martin, he said they were added at McCartney’s request to “get around the lurking schmaltz factor” by using the clarinets “in a classical way.” In the song’s final verse, the clarinet is played in harmony with McCartney’s vocal: an unusual method of harmonisation, especially in 1967. Supporting instruments include the piano, bass, drum set, tubular bells, and electric guitar.

The song is especially meaningful to me as hopefully, I will be that soon.

True, but then art (craft) is merely a form (subset) of Art. There are but a few artistic creations whch merit the title Art, because they evoke a universal emotional response, which lead to serious reflection of the human condition and our relationship to the world around us.

How does an artwork become timeless? It continues to have impact on all who observe and emotionally experience its content.

Signature
Art is the creation of that which evokes an emotional response, leading to thoughts of the noblest kind.
W4U