So, here is my question for all you erudite scholars and Orthodox faithful.

I am married, but that doesn't always mean that I never gaze admiringly at an attractive woman who may walk past. Is this a sin? I'm sure I will get several "see your priest" comments, but I would like everyone's opinion here. Is it possible to admire a woman without necessarily sexualizing her? I make a concious effort never to do it in my wife's presence out of respect for her, although we on occasion may make jokes about seeing some hot guy/girl to each other. If it is a sin to admire a woman's beauty, why did God make them so nice to look at? If it is not a sin, where is the line drawn whereby you are crossing into sin?

I think you may admire all of God's creations, as long as it's not a "lustful" admiration.

God has made some drop dead gorgeous men (and women), and there's nothing wrong with noticing.

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Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.—St. Isaac of Syria

I've heard from RC priests that in such cases they just "give thanks to the God for such wonderful creation". So I think it's similar situation. And as also my (Orthodox of course) priest said, it's nothing wrong to notice handsome men (in my case), it's completely normal. If you didn't noticed the opposite set, it would be worse thing

But, certainly, we shouldn't use the attractiveness of the opposite sex that's not our spouse in our mind, thoughts etc.

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Pray for persecuted Christians, especially in Serbian Kosovo and Raška, Egypt and Syria

You're married, not dead. I see no difference between appreciating a fine specimen of human beauty in the street and ogling movie stars on the big screen. Except perhaps we wouldn't be as impressed by the unretouched everyday images of movie stars, but I digress.

My husband looks at other women, I look at other men, we compare notes but at the end of the day we come home to each other and all the others mean nothing. It starts becoming a problem when the looker starts getting involved with the lookee, which can kick off with as little as an unsolicited comment (also known as 'corny pickup lines').

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'When you live your path all the time, you end up with both more path and more time.'~Venecia Rauls

The Lord said that we commit adultery in our heart when we look lustfully upon a woman. Noticing a woman's beauty does not necessarily mean looking lustfully, but "just noticing" in this way may be the beginning of lust and that adultery of the heart.

If we do not control our gaze, the demons will find ways to put before our eyes those things which can distract and ensnare us. The fact that we at least know not to look at other women while with our wives is an indication that such looking is probably not blameless. Of course, it may not be best to stare at the ground when a female boss or coworker is talking to us, but otherwise we should control our gaze to avoid all manner of temptations, lust being just one. Looking around here and there can also be a sign of inner restlessness and a desire to find some fulfillment or diversion outside ourselves through indulging the senses and the flesh. Instead, we could keep our gaze before us and keep our mind and heart in prayer, recalling our sinfulness and asking the Lord for His mercy.

St. Gregory the Diologist said of St. Benedict of Nursia:

Quote

I said that this venerable man did dwell with himself, because carrying himself circumspectly and carefully in the sight of his Creator, always considering his own actions, always examining himself, never did he turn the eyes of his soul from himself, to behold aught else whatsoever.

We can also ask ourselves about our perception of beauty, and whether this perception of beauty is one that is fleshly or whether it is spiritual. Do we perceive beauty merely in terms of the external appearance of the body, as does the world; or is our sensitivity to beauty a sensitivity to the beauty observed in a person who lives a life pleasing to God? In other words, is it true beauty that gets our attention and causes us to marvel - a beauty that comes from within and animates a person with a certain light or glow; or is it the counterfeit and deceptive beauty which is of the flesh and often leads us into sin?

Also, in noticing the beauty of the opposite sex, where is our mind afterwards? Do we continue to think about this person, allowing this person's appearance to occupy our imagination? If so, we are on a dangerous path. These are at least a few things to think about.

So, here is my question for all you erudite scholars and Orthodox faithful.

I am married, but that doesn't always mean that I never gaze admiringly at an attractive woman who may walk past. Is this a sin? I'm sure I will get several "see your priest" comments, but I would like everyone's opinion here. Is it possible to admire a woman without necessarily sexualizing her? I make a concious effort never to do it in my wife's presence out of respect for her, although we on occasion may make jokes about seeing some hot guy/girl to each other. If it is a sin to admire a woman's beauty, why did God make them so nice to look at? If it is not a sin, where is the line drawn whereby you are crossing into sin?

Great question!!

My understanding is that we commit adultery if we look upon a woman in order to lust after her. Just noticing and admiring doesn't *necessarily* qualify as adultery.

One Orthodox priest I know says, "If in doubt, don't."

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"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire. May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

So, here is my question for all you erudite scholars and Orthodox faithful.

I am married, but that doesn't always mean that I never gaze admiringly at an attractive woman who may walk past. Is this a sin? I'm sure I will get several "see your priest" comments, but I would like everyone's opinion here. Is it possible to admire a woman without necessarily sexualizing her? I make a concious effort never to do it in my wife's presence out of respect for her, although we on occasion may make jokes about seeing some hot guy/girl to each other. If it is a sin to admire a woman's beauty, why did God make them so nice to look at? If it is not a sin, where is the line drawn whereby you are crossing into sin?

It does not take much to go from one to the other. Since people are different, there is not a specific time duration. It depends on what is in your heart and what is in your wife's heart. Let's say you look for 10 seconds. Will you lust after that long? If yes, don't. How about your wife? What would she think if you looked for 10 seconds? Is that O.K.? If not, don't.

If you're thinking of other women in terms of being "hot", or as some number on a scale of 1 to 10, that's a bad sign. If you're going to appreciate another woman's beauty, don't sexualize it. If you're sexualizing it, then as jah777 says, it's becoming lust.

The beauty of several female saints does not without mention in hagiography, so I wouldn't go to the other extreme and say we can't appreciate physical beauty at all. Just keep it Apollonian, rather than Dionysian.

God made all of us beautiful. It is not a sin to admire each other's beauty; in fact, it is a normal reaction -- that's the point of beauty. However, I speak from an ideal point of view. In the fallen world, man has lost touch with the spiritual dimension. The whole person is not just the body, but also the soul. First and foremost you love and value someone based on the fact that they are a person and that person also radiates through a body. You do not admire the body separately. The higher the level of spiritual perfection you achieve, the better you able to appreciate someone's beauty.

So, here is my question for all you erudite scholars and Orthodox faithful.

I am married, but that doesn't always mean that I never gaze admiringly at an attractive woman who may walk past. Is this a sin? I'm sure I will get several "see your priest" comments, but I would like everyone's opinion here. Is it possible to admire a woman without necessarily sexualizing her? I make a concious effort never to do it in my wife's presence out of respect for her, although we on occasion may make jokes about seeing some hot guy/girl to each other.

Dude you love your wife yeah? How would you feel if your wife stares at every goodlooking guy in a restaurant you are having dinner in with " admiring" gaze? While you are sitting right infront of her? Wandering eyes spell trouble my friend, I don't care what religion you follow or what book you have read. Aesthetically being aware dose not translate into eyes that tend to follow every beauty that passess by.

May I give unsolicited advise? You got your wife with you ? keep your eyes on her especially when a beautiful woman is passing by. Otherwise even if you get forgiveness from God , you might not get it from your wife, unless of course she is the type who doesn't mind sharing that bit of you or herself:) in that case you are in luck you might even get to comment on the hotness of the woman that just passed by you guys.lol

You have said you make a conscious effort not to, good man! Smart man! Now don't mess up

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To God be the Glory in all things! Amen!

Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.

If you're thinking of other women in terms of being "hot", or as some number on a scale of 1 to 10, that's a bad sign. If you're going to appreciate another woman's beauty, don't sexualize it. If you're sexualizing it, then as jah777 says, it's becoming lust.

The beauty of several female saints does not without mention in hagiography, so I wouldn't go to the other extreme and say we can't appreciate physical beauty at all. Just keep it Apollonian, rather than Dionysian.

Lulz. He would have been the first to criticize if he weren't working.

Some truths you pick up by reading. Others by experience.

Other than a false argument against the source, do you think I am wrong? Any counterargument about the flowers of wuv? I guess evolution is a hard concept when you think that wuv comes from cupid's arrow rather than a concoction of brain chemicals.

So, here is my question for all you erudite scholars and Orthodox faithful.

I am married, but that doesn't always mean that I never gaze admiringly at an attractive woman who may walk past. Is this a sin? I'm sure I will get several "see your priest" comments, but I would like everyone's opinion here. Is it possible to admire a woman without necessarily sexualizing her? I make a concious effort never to do it in my wife's presence out of respect for her, although we on occasion may make jokes about seeing some hot guy/girl to each other. If it is a sin to admire a woman's beauty, why did God make them so nice to look at? If it is not a sin, where is the line drawn whereby you are crossing into sin?

... unless of course she is the type who doesn't mind sharing that bit of you or herself:) in that case you are in luck you might even get to comment on the hotness of the woman that just passed by you guys.

As we were all listening with enjoyment to his holy teaching, suddenly there passed by in front of us the foremost actress of Antioch, the star of the local theatre. She was seated on a donkey and accompanied by a great and fanciful procession. She seemed to be clothed in nothing but gold and pearls and other precious stones. Even her feet were covered with gold and pearls. The male and female slaves accompanying her were extravagantly clothed in costly garments, and the torcs round their necks were all of gold. Some of them went before, others followed after.

The worldly crowd could not get enough of their beauty and attractiveness. As they passed by us the air was filled with the scent of musk and other most delicious perfumes, but when the bishops saw her passing by so immodestly, with her head bare, and the outlines of her body clearly visible, nothing over her shoulders as well as her head, and yet the object of such adulation, they all fell silent, groaned and sighed, and averted their eyes as if being forced to witness some grave sin.

Chapter IIIThe most blessed Nonnus, however, looked at her long and hard, and even after she had passed by he looked after her for as long as she remained in sight. Not till then did he turn round and speak to the other bishops.

"Weren't you delighted to see such beauty as hers?"

They answered nothing. He leant his head down on to his knees and shed tears into the handkerchief which he held on his lap between his holy hands. He sighed deeply and turned again to the bishops.

"Weren't you delighted to see such beauty as hers?"

Again they answered nothing.

"Truly, I was extremely delighted. Her beauty pleased me very much, for God has preordained to bring her here into the presence of this worthy and eminent bishop of Antioch as a judgment on us all personally as much as on our episcopacy. Think, my beloved brothers. How many hours did this woman spend in her dressing room, washing herself and dressing herself and decorating herself with the utmost care and attention, so that there might be nothing lacking in the beauty of her ornamentation, simply so that she would not disappoint all her various admirers, who are here today and gone tomorrow? But for us there is an almighty father in heaven, an immortal spouse who makes promises to those who serve him, who offers heavenly riches and eternal rewards which are beyond estimation, which eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor yet have entered into the heart of mankind, which God has prepared for them that love him (1 Corinthians 2.9).

"What more can I say? We have his promise that we shall see the great and splendid and inestimable face of our bride, which Cherubim dare not gaze upon, but we do not take care to adorn ourselves, or purge ourselves of all the filthy thoughts of our wretched souls. We just let them lie there."

Chapter IVHaving said all this he took me, his sinful deacon, to the hospice where a cell had been assigned to us. He fell down and laid his face on the floor, [The Latin text literally has 'threw himself face down on the floor'. But it is impossible to beat one's breast in such a position, so I assume that what is meant is that he assumed the position which we are familiar with today from TV pictures of Islamic men prostrating themselves in the mosque]] beating his breast and crying.

"O Lord Jesus Christ, forgive me an unworthy sinner, for the decoration of a harlot lasting but a day is greater than the decoration of my soul. How can I show my face before you? What words can I offer to justify myself in your sight? But I will not hide my heart from you, for you know all our secret thoughts. Woe to me, an unworthy sinner, for I stand before your altar, and I do not offer the beauty of soul that you expect of me. That woman vows to make herself pleasing to men, and she succeeds. I vow to make myself pleasing to you, and I fail because of my slothfulness. I stand stripped bare before you in heaven as in earth, for I do not fulfil your commandments. I cannot put any trust in my own achievements. My hope lies solely in your mercy, by which I trust to be saved."

With these words, and a great deal of loud weeping, we celebrated the feast of the day.

So, here is my question for all you erudite scholars and Orthodox faithful.

I am celibate, but that doesn't always mean that I never gaze admiringly at an attractive guy who may walk past. Is this a sin? I'm sure I will get several "see your priest" comments, but I would like everyone's opinion here. Is it possible to admire a person of the same sex without necessarily sexualizing him? I make a concious effort never to do it in my wife's presence out of respect for hermy convictions, although I on occasion may make jokes about seeing some hot guy/girl to each other. If it is a sin to admire a man's beauty, why did God make them so nice to look at? If it is not a sin, where is the line drawn whereby you are crossing into sin?

I've changed this a bit. I feel the same way in my situation. Men are beautiful. If God made them this way, why shouldn't I enjoy looking at them? It's not like anything is going to happen from admiring someone.

So, here is my question for all you erudite scholars and Orthodox faithful.

I am celibate, but that doesn't always mean that I never gaze admiringly at an attractive guy who may walk past. Is this a sin? I'm sure I will get several "see your priest" comments, but I would like everyone's opinion here. Is it possible to admire a person of the same sex without necessarily sexualizing him? I make a concious effort never to do it in my wife's presence out of respect for hermy convictions, although I on occasion may make jokes about seeing some hot guy/girl to each other. If it is a sin to admire a man's beauty, why did God make them so nice to look at? If it is not a sin, where is the line drawn whereby you are crossing into sin?

I've changed this a bit. I feel the same way in my situation. Men are beautiful. If God made them this way, why shouldn't I enjoy looking at them? It's not like anything is going to happen from admiring someone.

When you are married you shouldn't talk about your spouse outside of their presence in a way you couldn't in their presence. The same would go for how you look at people of the opposite sex. A glance isn't going to offend your wife, rubbernecking a hot girl would.

One of my pet peeves is when spouses bash on each other around their friends. I really don't want to hear about how incompetent your husband is. If you have issues with him, then talk to him about them. I won't take part in any husband gripe fest.

Ok, I'm just thinking out loud here, but doesn't Jesus imply that people who lust should be put to death?

First, we need to go to what Jesus explicitly said about lust:

"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." - Matt. 5:27-28

Therefore, to lust is to commit adultery. And Jesus clearly believed that the Old Testament laws were still in force and completely valid:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." - Matt. 5:17-18

Now what does the Old Testament say about adultery?

"If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel." - Deut. 22:22

Therefore, those who lust commit adultery, and those who commit adultery deserve to die, according to Jesus, and the Mosaic law which Jesus said would never be destroyed.

However, we must keep in mind that Jesus said: "My kingdom is not of this world" (Jn. 18:36), therefore the death penalty that an adulterer deserves is a spiritual one, not a physical one.

Has not this luster, in a sense, put themselves to death, a spiritual death, by their act? Others may not even know about the lusting, but the person does. In this way, since they were responsible for their own spiritual death, are they not spiritual suicides?

So, here is my question for all you erudite scholars and Orthodox faithful.

I am celibate, but that doesn't always mean that I never gaze admiringly at an attractive guy who may walk past. Is this a sin? I'm sure I will get several "see your priest" comments, but I would like everyone's opinion here. Is it possible to admire a person of the same sex without necessarily sexualizing him? I make a concious effort never to do it in my wife's presence out of respect for hermy convictions, although I on occasion may make jokes about seeing some hot guy/girl to each other. If it is a sin to admire a man's beauty, why did God make them so nice to look at? If it is not a sin, where is the line drawn whereby you are crossing into sin?

I've changed this a bit. I feel the same way in my situation. Men are beautiful. If God made them this way, why shouldn't I enjoy looking at them? It's not like anything is going to happen from admiring someone.

But here is where the devil whispers things into our ears.

You know it's wrong. Don't do it.

Kinda weird to read this (just like anything aha has ever written).

Still though, kind of puts things in perspective, if it is wrong for a homosexual, it is wrong for a heterosexual. Or something like that. I'm not really sure how to make that grammatically and contextually correct, hopefully it will pass in an Internet forum.

Ok, I'm just thinking out loud here, but doesn't Jesus imply that people who lust should be put to death?

First, we need to go to what Jesus explicitly said about lust:

"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." - Matt. 5:27-28

Therefore, to lust is to commit adultery. And Jesus clearly believed that the Old Testament laws were still in force and completely valid:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." - Matt. 5:17-18

Now what does the Old Testament say about adultery?

"If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel." - Deut. 22:22

Therefore, those who lust commit adultery, and those who commit adultery deserve to die, according to Jesus, and the Mosaic law which Jesus said would never be destroyed.

However, we must keep in mind that Jesus said: "My kingdom is not of this world" (Jn. 18:36), therefore the death penalty that an adulterer deserves is a spiritual one, not a physical one.

Has not this luster, in a sense, put themselves to death, a spiritual death, by their act? Others may not even know about the lusting, but the person does. In this way, since they were responsible for their own spiritual death, are they not spiritual suicides?

I'm also just thinking aloud here.

In the Old Testament, one was guilty of sin before he even knew he sinned (Leviticus 5:17).

The question "doesn't Jesus imply that people who lust should be put to death?" In a physical sense is moot, in order to be put to death, one must produce two or more witnesses (Deuteronomy 19:15).

However, God sees everything from Heaven (Psalm 33:13) and God is our ultimate spiritual Judge (Isaiah 33:22). So a spiritual adultery is punishable by a spiritual death.

In the end, God Knows our hearts (Luke 16:15), if Jesus could forgive the prostitute who came to him (Luke 7:36-50) I'm sure that, with repentance, God will forgive you for missing the mark.