The only things that keep me from doing steroids is the thoughts of "Am I really ready" which is NO! and I am concerned if I ever did use them, would I start dropping the mass? Does anyone have an article link or related information that can guide me on this? I am still searching about steroids and reading ATM, but a little help on topic-finding couldn't hurt :)!

They are used for droping body fat AND keeping your lean muscle mass, but thats not what I'm talking about. I am just simply asking if you stop using steroids all together, would you start to lose the mass you put on? Please don't flame me for not knowing this. I am still learning and I have no intention to take steroids until I FULLY understand what they do.

What you are asking about is the real basics of Steriod use, so some of the guys on here would expect you to a least learn the basics for yourself before you start to post questions, otherwise it is going to take a lot of posts and time and effort to give you all the knowledge you require.

You will keep most of your muscle mass gains after coming off a cycle provided you use a good PCT and keep eating well and keep training properly after.

if your really keen to use and learn I suggest buying one of the many books about steriods, and also reading the sticky at the top of the steriod forum is very helpful to beginners

I think I know what you're getting at, so I'll sum up a couple things:

Steroids will help you put on mass and after you stop a cycle you will lose a portion of the gains during recover, so it's like four steps forward and one step backwards with each cycle.

You will not lose the mass from previous cycles unless you pass a certain genetic limit, which is quite high. Say your genetic limit (natural test production) allows for 240 lbs of muscle, you will maintain gains even after stopping steroid use until this point. If you use steroids to bulk up to HUGE levels of mass, and relatively lean, you will not be able to maintain these gains past this set genetic point without steroids. Some users will use a sort of higher HRT dose to maintain gains post cycle, say 200-400mg/wk year around to maintain gains, but will use much, much higher doses on their "cycles." This is obviously at the professional level where they would not be able to maintain their massive gains without supraphysiological testosterone levels.

Peptides will help increase your genetic limit to a certain extent, but more so your lower genetic limit, so to say. (see next one).

The lower genetic limit (as I'm calling it) is the level at which you can maintain a certain level of muscle mass while remaining lean. Example: Post-cycle, after I stop using AAS, for any extended period of time afterwards, I can keep my weight at 230 lbs and stay quite lean with my natural levels of test (I'm actually on HRT, but my test levels are in the normal range, which would still apply to you), but if I use steroids to gain up to 245 lbs of muscle at the same leanness I will have a very difficult time maintaining that level of muscle with my natural levels of testosterone. I could either maintain that level of muscle and slowly put on fat, or I could slowly lost muscle mass and maintain leanness until I get eventually down to the 230 lbs of my "lower genetic limit."

Hopefully that makes sense. Let me know if this is what you were talking about.

Good post, Schwarz. Once again, I feel my IQ went up a point from reading this board. I love how you and Bushy state "common knowledge" simply and effectively. I'm certain I've read that a few times before, but never so succinctly put.

Schwarzenegger wrote:I think I know what you're getting at, so I'll sum up a couple things:

1. Steroids will help you put on mass and after you stop a cycle you will lose a portion of the gains during recover, so it's like four steps forward and one step backwards with each cycle.

2. You will not lose the mass from previous cycles unless you pass a certain genetic limit, which is quite high. Say your genetic limit (natural test production) allows for 240 lbs of muscle, you will maintain gains even after stopping steroid use until this point. If you use steroids to bulk up to HUGE levels of mass, and relatively lean, you will not be able to maintain these gains past this set genetic point without steroids. Some users will use a sort of higher HRT dose to maintain gains post cycle, say 200-400mg/wk year around to maintain gains, but will use much, much higher doses on their "cycles." This is obviously at the professional level where they would not be able to maintain their massive gains without supraphysiological testosterone levels.

3. Peptides will help increase your genetic limit to a certain extent, but more so your lower genetic limit, so to say. (see next one).

4. The lower genetic limit (as I'm calling it) is the level at which you can maintain a certain level of muscle mass while remaining lean. Example: Post-cycle, after I stop using AAS, for any extended period of time afterwards, I can keep my weight at 230 lbs and stay quite lean with my natural levels of test (I'm actually on HRT, but my test levels are in the normal range, which would still apply to you), but if I use steroids to gain up to 245 lbs of muscle at the same leanness I will have a very difficult time maintaining that level of muscle with my natural levels of testosterone. I could either maintain that level of muscle and slowly put on fat, or I could slowly lost muscle mass and maintain leanness until I get eventually down to the 230 lbs of my "lower genetic limit."

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Hopefully that makes sense. Let me know if this is what you were talking about.

It should also be added that the amount you retain depends heavily on what type of AAS you use. For example, say you go on a 4 week Anadrol/Dianabol cycle (awfully popular with teenagers that don't know any better), you might put on 15lb, but realistically you would be looking at only keeping 5lb, perhaps even less if recovery is slow and sloppy. These are Class II steroids.

Say, on the other hand you go on a 12 week cycle of Testosterone Enanthate and put on 20lb and your recovery (PCT, basically) is adequate. Your chances of keeping over 15lb of that are very good. This is a Class I steroid.

It would be good if you read up on the different effects steroids have according to their anabolic and androgenic effects.

Schwarzenegger wrote:I think I know what you're getting at, so I'll sum up a couple things:

1. Steroids will help you put on mass and after you stop a cycle you will lose a portion of the gains during recover, so it's like four steps forward and one step backwards with each cycle.

2. You will not lose the mass from previous cycles unless you pass a certain genetic limit, which is quite high. Say your genetic limit (natural test production) allows for 240 lbs of muscle, you will maintain gains even after stopping steroid use until this point. If you use steroids to bulk up to HUGE levels of mass, and relatively lean, you will not be able to maintain these gains past this set genetic point without steroids. Some users will use a sort of higher HRT dose to maintain gains post cycle, say 200-400mg/wk year around to maintain gains, but will use much, much higher doses on their "cycles." This is obviously at the professional level where they would not be able to maintain their massive gains without supraphysiological testosterone levels.

3. Peptides will help increase your genetic limit to a certain extent, but more so your lower genetic limit, so to say. (see next one).

4. The lower genetic limit (as I'm calling it) is the level at which you can maintain a certain level of muscle mass while remaining lean. Example: Post-cycle, after I stop using AAS, for any extended period of time afterwards, I can keep my weight at 230 lbs and stay quite lean with my natural levels of test (I'm actually on HRT, but my test levels are in the normal range, which would still apply to you), but if I use steroids to gain up to 245 lbs of muscle at the same leanness I will have a very difficult time maintaining that level of muscle with my natural levels of testosterone. I could either maintain that level of muscle and slowly put on fat, or I could slowly lost muscle mass and maintain leanness until I get eventually down to the 230 lbs of my "lower genetic limit."

---------

Hopefully that makes sense. Let me know if this is what you were talking about.

Contrl wrote:It should also be added that the amount you retain depends heavily on what type of AAS you use. For example, say you go on a 4 week Anadrol/Dianabol cycle (awfully popular with teenagers that don't know any better), you might put on 15lb, but realistically you would be looking at only keeping 5lb, perhaps even less if recovery is slow and sloppy. These are Class II steroids.

Say, on the other hand you go on a 12 week cycle of Testosterone Enanthate and put on 20lb and your recovery (PCT, basically) is adequate. Your chances of keeping over 15lb of that are very good. This is a Class I steroid.

It would be good if you read up on the different effects steroids have according to their anabolic and androgenic effects.

I'm still searching for articles from T-Nation to find out what does what, I just hope I can keep in mind what they all do. Never read anything about keeping the mass after the cycle, so thats why I popped the question.

I'm still searching for articles from T-Nation to find out what does what, I just hope I can keep in mind what they all do. Never read anything about keeping the mass after the cycle, so thats why I popped the question.

The best info will be found in old posts and not in articles. AAS being what they are, isn't something that is as openly discussed and written about as things like training and nutrition.

Pick up a copy of "Anabolics" by William Llewellyn. That way you don't have to worry about remembering everything.

Another tip would be to get a notebook and divide it up into a bunch of different sections like PCT, half lives, etc. Then just take notes from any posts that you think contain relevant info.