The loss of 'Commanders'

Just curious, does anyone miss the old commanders? If anyone doesn't know about them they were a step below a 'Force Commander' (Today’s Captain). They were basically a WS5, 2 Wound captain.

They were cheap, useful and perfect for smaller games of 1000pts or less. It just seems to me that characters are getting more and more powerful and expensive, which is no big deal for big games but spending 150 points in a 750pt game on a character is a tad excessive.
Maybe it's just me being shackled to fluff but i cant see a hard as nails Captain running around with 20 or 30 Marines all the time, who commands the other 70 Marines of the company? Having the option for a 'cheapo' captain was quite a nice choice to have and it fitted with fluff too.

Sure you can use a Chaplin and a Librarian but they're topping *20 Guardsmen* points basic as well so there isn't much in it.......

I miss Rites of Battle, but I do still take Captains some times since fluff is very important to me and my army. I would however point out that even 20-30 Marines is a significant amount of the Company's manpower, so the Captain would have to take it seriously. I also agree that a Lieutenant option would be nice, someone situated between Veteran Sergeants and Captains to lead smaller strike teams and give us an option in 500-1000 point games (even Combat Patrols) that doesn't require 20% of our force at a minimum.

i think he's refering to the old, OLD space marine codex that had the crimson fists on the cover. Yeah i miss them in hindsight, but at the time i was just starting and was obsessed with having the most powerful uber character i could so never used him

would love the option of having him now though, especially as the BA dex talks about having just such strike force leaders in it, but then doesn't ACTUALLY have the option for them

Never judge someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes...by that time they'll be a mile away, and have no shoes

Hmmm did we not have the 'Commander' option in the last codex? He was WS5 BS5 Str4 T4 W2 In5 A3 Ld9 and was around the 60pt mark but came with no equipment. Chaos had a similar option aptly called 'lieutenant'

I just like the idea of having a compant 'leiutenant' or Senior Veteran/aspiring Captain leading a strike force rather than the big man himself. I kinda started pondering this as i was going through the Angels Codex, doing a small 1000pt army you only really have Librarians as a cheap HQ option as chaplins are Elites. Then i got musing.

I might write some rules up and see if me 'n the mates will allow some house rules for them.

I use chaplains as cheap HQs too, but in 500 point games (which I play frequently) even they are a bit expensive. Hell I'd pay 50 points for a guy with Serg stats that I can take a small amount of upgrades for.

I missed the Leader. 30 points for a Vet Sgt to lead your army, leaving you tons to spend on guns and tanks. Good old 3rd edition, gawd marines sucked back then

I guess we don't see as many mini-captains because games are set at the 1500-2000 range, getting closer to 2000. At that level you can fit in plenty of HQ and still have an army for them to lead. For smaller games, I'd just use a Chaplain or Librarian, or house rule it up to make your own Lieutenant.

This is why I loved the latest SW codex so much. It was, IMO, a step in the right direction. What I mean is, they implemented rules of moral (as opposed to game-play) consequence as a method encourage players to field and play fluffy armies (the stipulations attached to Sagas.. I don't know about you, but I always try to complete them in casual games). Likewise, the inclusion of Wolf Guard Battle Leaders, essentially the modern equivalent of a Commander, allows players to field a smaller strike force under the charge of a noteworthy veteran, as opposed to THE Company Captain or attending staff.. they can't be everywhere at once, you know!!.

I sorely miss the concept of a cheap HQ choice with an army-wide benefit. In 4th ed, if you wanted a cheap HQ you got a Captain with a gun of some description and your entire army got a Ld boost. If you wanted a CC monster, you bought a Chaplain, because he a) had Litanies of Hate and b) cost next to bloody nothing. 3rd and 4th were all about the cheap, effective commanders...then 5th ed was all "holy shit everyone costs like twice as much and chaplains suck and relic blades are everywhere and BUFF MEPHISTON AGAIN"

Last edited by ze_poodle; March 26th, 2010 at 04:24.

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