thank god that george lucas is finally fixing the problems with the original trilogy. god only knows it really needed a darth vader NOOOO (since the one in the prequel was so great and all) and also they really needed to make obi-wan's animal cry that scared off the sand people sound much more retarded.

i mean really, what the hell is that even supposed to sound like? nothing that could scare anyone away, that's for sure.

I'll agree with you there about Firefly, but if you don't at least give Empire a chance (for me SW consists of that trilogy and the original movies) then you're cheating yourself out of a damn enriching experience.

Especially considering Timothy Zahn wrote the trilogy because fans desperately wanted more Star Wars and Lucas hadn't shat out the prequels yet. The trilogy was so widely popular it made the New York Times Best Seller list when it debuted. I won't say all EU books are fabulous; many are in the "whatever" category or even read worse than a teen sci-fi book. Just know much care goes into writing these books, and that they are kept within a strict canon so as not to contradict with the films/other books.

Zahn has also written books recently about Mara Jade's past. The first book is called Allegiance and follows Jade and a small group of defected Stormtroopers. Comparing it to the Empire trilogy it's forgettable but if you enjoy Mara you'll probably like the story. Choices of One is the next book after that. Haven't read it but if the cover proves anything Jade will work with those troopers once more.

Empire is the perfect example of what he should able to do and what he shouldn't:

Compensate for the need to reduce the opacity of the cockpits of the snow speeders? Good. Add a few windows to cloud city? Good. Generally improve certain model shots? Good.

Add incredibly clunky dialogue and mediocre performances to the Vader/Emperor scene? Bad. Replace Vader's "bring my shuttle!" line with the pussy line "Alert my Star Destroyer to prepare for my arrival"? Bad! BAD! BAAAAD!!!! (I know it was ages ago he did that but it still annoys the hell out of me! )

The Empire trilogy is as canon as the movies, and would be every bit as awesome on the screen, as long as they stuck to telling the story and didn't try to fuck about with VFX for two hours.

QFT.

You know, considering how cool those CGI The Old Republic trailers are (previous page), the idea of the Empire trilogy one day being released as movies is not beyond the realm of possibility... just do it soon, while the original actors can still lend their voices to the production.

I hate to say it but I fear it's almost better recasting several roles already. For example, in my opinion Mark Hamill and Carrie Fischer simply no longer sound like Luke and Leia any more.

I highly, HIGHLY doubt that is real.It's all over the internet and everyone is freaking out about it.

Weiner and I were talking about this earlier; there are good updates, and bad.Good: Scene in ANH when Han meets with Jabba. A fantastic scene. However, CGI Jabba is horribly done, as per 1997 technology, and the guy who voiced him was no longer alive.Good: Updates to ships, landcapes, etc. Good: Adding Ian McDiarmid as the Emperor in ESBGood: End of ROTJ, Removing eyebrows from Anakin Skywalker's face, as he is a severe burn victim. Bad: taking Lapti Nek out of the scene at Jabba's Palace

The point is, I'd like to see what the new updates are. More importantly, I want to see all the deleted scenes. They showed one of them at Celebration V in Orlando last year. It's from ROTJ, showing Luke in a cave on Tatooine, building his lightsaber. See, that is awesome. Those are the reasons I'm buying the Blu Rays.

You like that scene? It's appalling! It loses all the menace of the original version, I can understand the wish for consistency (which possibly made it a good idea) but the additional dialogue is awful and the delivery is drab and uninteresting.

You like that scene? It's appalling! It loses all the menace of the original version, I can understand the wish for consistency (which possibly made it a good idea) but the additional dialogue is awful and the delivery is drab and uninteresting.

I disagree.

The continuity thing is extremely important. And while the other emperor was cool for a while, it just looks bland and weird after seeing Ian McDiarmid kick ass in all the other films. I also feel the additional dialogue is necessary(if not necessary, helpful) to the story.

If you PROMISE to read them, I'll send you mine (which I bought second-hand). In return I ask that you send me three books of similar thickness that you have enjoyed.

Huh. Book exchange. Neat idea. You know, I would be into doing that. I tend to remember every novel I've ever read in disturbing detail, so I don't have much need to keep them around, cluttering the place up. You're on, good fellow!

If you PROMISE to read them, I'll send you mine (which I bought second-hand). In return I ask that you send me three books of similar thickness that you have enjoyed.

Huh. Book exchange. Neat idea. You know, I would be into doing that. I tend to remember every novel I've ever read in disturbing detail, so I don't have much need to keep them around, cluttering the place up. You're on, good fellow!

Fantastic idea! My friend and I used to trade Star Wars novels.I need to read the Han Solo Trilogy again. I haven't the time or the patience really. There's so much more I should read, but I have a problem deciding what is cannon and what's not.

Good: Scene in ANH when Han meets with Jabba. A fantastic scene. However, CGI Jabba is horribly done, as per 1997 technology, and the guy who voiced him was no longer alive.

How is that good? It makes no sense. Why would a criminal leader like Jabba even bother getting out there? In Jedi he is just sitting there, which makes sense for his character, but with this addition he can walk around as he see fit. It ruins his character. What's moreover, it serves no purpose at all. There is nothing interesting in that scene, and everything mentioned in the scene is explaining in the scenes immediately succeeding and preceding it.

Maybe, but I like to think of a film from the late 1970s and early 1980s to have a bit of defects. The new effects takes me out of the film because it doesn't match the rest of the film's style. The 'bad' effects works, the 'better' effects doesn't.

While I agree that the original Emperor is pretty lame, the new dialogue between Vader and McDiarmid makes no sense at all. And it sort of ruins the whole mystery about Luke and Vader. And Vader's responses no makes less sense.

Also that scene, containing lines from the Greedo scene even has the exact take of Han's line just delivered to Jabba. I assume it was dropped into the Greedo scene when it was decided to drop Jabba but hearing the same line delivered in exactly the same way responding to the exact same subtitle within a few minutes makes that whole part feel very amateurish.

Re: Lucas botching up everything - I mean, if I wanted to play devil's advocate, or just trolololololololol everyone, I'd point out that we're moaning about a guy who is tinkering with his own bloody story and we're just moaning about it based on our own perceptions of what it should be.But I actually agree with what everyone's saying.

As entitled as he is to amend his own story or allow other people to do it for him, I'm reminded of a line from one of Mr Plinkett's reviews, which actually rings true in my mind - the idea of all his more recent guff and lack of subtlety makes you think that surely he must have been somehow removed from having anything to do with the opening shot of ANH which remains a prominent example of brilliant cinema.

@El-Man - true what you say about Mark, but I was just thinking, on Robot Chicken there are numerous sketches that have Luke Skywalker involved - one where he's voiced by Mark and others by Bob Bergen - who voices Skywalker on lots of occasions - and the difference is quite profound. Now, of course, appearing on Robot Chicken is not supposed to be a serious role but still

Regarding the Empire trilogy, I do have Heir to the Empire as a graphic novel - probably not as good though as the book. One thing that I have noticed of course is that a location in the story is called Hyllyard City which is as near as I'm likely going to see my surname in a Star Wars environment

Re: Lucas botching up everything - I mean, if I wanted to play devil's advocate, or just trolololololololol everyone, I'd point out that we're moaning about a guy who is tinkering with his own bloody story

You're wrong, Mr. Lucas. They're not your movies. They're ours. All of ours. We paid to go see them, and they're just as much a part of our lives as they are of yours. [/Stan]

When an artist creates, whatever they create belongs to society. [/Kyle]

Re: Lucas botching up everything - I mean, if I wanted to play devil's advocate, or just trolololololololol everyone, I'd point out that we're moaning about a guy who is tinkering with his own bloody story and we're just moaning about it based on our own perceptions of what it should be.

You do realise that the original Star Wars films are far less Lucas' work (and story) than all the people who participated in the production? Just because Lucas as the writer doesn't necessarily mean it is his story alone. He had to rewrite the script for Star Warssix times before the studio would approve of it.

Lucas can certainly be thanked for the initial spark. But Lucas is an idea man, not a story man. He has a lot of good ideas (and a lot of terrible ones), which are better sorted together by other people.

I'm so tired of these stupid arguments. He made the films. Yes, it was a collaboration in many ways, but Star Wars would not originally exist were it not for George Lucas. It's his story, he can do whatever he wants with ites, there are shitty parts, but overall the prequels are okay. If you don't like them, whatever.. There really hasn't been anything that bad, except the points I made above. I liked seeing what happened before A New Hope, and to watch the Star Wars franchise grow. YIt just seems hypocritical to me. Star Wars IS George Lucas, and if people don't like him, how can they like Star Wars? Star Wars wouldn't exsist if it wasn't for him. Seriously, I have this conversation with people all the time. To me, Star Wars is perfect from beginning to end. Sure, some things are different, and some things are not the way others would have done it. But that's the beauty of self expression. Film is an art. You can't tell him his art is "wrong." The people that claim to be Star Wars fans but hate the prequels are sorta hypocrites. Its one big story from 1-6. How can one say about a book "Oh this is my favorite novel! But I don't like the end...so I never read that part." It's the same thing, it just makes no sense.

I don't understand why so called Star Wars fans come to Star Wars boards and Star Wars discussions to do nothing but bash everything about it.

Aww, what a shame Nutmeg. Natalie Portman is one of the best parts of the prequels in my opinion. Have you seen her in other films? She's fantastic. She is my favourite Actress by far!

I have problems with the prequels of course. Everyone has problems with any film, but it's okay because as a whole I think they are good. I'm a girl so I enjoy the love story, it's not the best but it's cute and sad. Episode III Revenge of the Sith was pretty bad ass at times.

Any version. I love the originals of course. There is a nostalgic feel to them that is priceless. However, I also enjoy seeing the edited versions for various reasons as I stated early. It keeps it fresh and keeps continuity going as well, with adding dialogue and actors that relate to the prequels. People may not like it, but for someone seeing the Star Wars films for the first time, seeing Ian McDiarmid as the emperor in ESB is fun. And Hayden Christensen makes a lot more sense at the end of ROTJ than Sebastian Shaw. I mean, whether you like it or not, Hayden Christensen is the face of Anakin Skywalker at this point. Sure, Shaw is a great actor, and he still has a fantastic scene before that. The real question is, why didn't they use David Prowse originally? After all, he was Darth Vader. I can see the reasoning, because of his accent and strange appearance. But I saw an interview once where he talked about how they never came to him and said they were using someone else for that final scene. They just filmed it, and he didn't know until he saw it.

I didn't think the prequels were bad, as such. I just think they had so much potential that was wasted by bad acting, bad casting decisions (Natalie Portman needs to disappear) and general tomfoolery.

Don't forget the cringe-inducing dialogue.

Quote

Personally, I'll always love the original - unedited - trilogy more than any of the others, but I wouldn't say it makes me less of a fan just because I don't particularly enjoy the prequels.

Agree 100% there. The original unedited trilogy is the best "cut" of the films so far. However, the extended ending of ROTJ done for the 1997 Special Editions was brilliant on the cinema screen. It does lose a certain something on the telly though.

The prequels, they had a couple of awesome moments on the big screen. Really awesome ones, like the Naboo starfighters taking off, and Dooku's ship slamming into Coruscant. But they're seconds of footage surrounded by hours of, well. What you mentioned above.

I think that Lucas should've stopped tinkering after 1997. At that point, it was as good as it was going to get. After that point, it started to go downhill rapidly.

In short, there's a very good reason I ignore parts of the SW universe. There are parts of it that are just fucking awful and not in the least entertaining. Most of the real brilliance of Star Wars is in the first two films, ANH and ESB. When watching ROTJ, I tend to skip a lot of the parts between landing on Endor and beginning the final assault on the Death Star.

Plus, Luke's a whiny little bitch from that point. After the heroes escape Jabba's palace, he's written less like some badass Jedi Knight and more like a teenager who doesn't want to do his chores.

Although, I admit most teenagers don't have "Kill Darth Vader" on their list of chores.

Don't you remember that vapid conversation between Padme and Annakin in Attack of the Clones (I think) where she expresses her love of the water and he his distaste for sand? It was an important scene!

Don't you remember that vapid conversation between Padme and Annakin in Attack of the Clones (I think) where she expresses her love of the water and he his distaste for sand? It was an important scene!

I love how you spell Anakin's first name. But yes, that line is brilliant.

'I don't like sand, it's coarse and it gets a-everywhere. But not like here, here everything is soft.'

Which could be the dumbest line in cinematic history and then she kisses him.

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