If he was 18 in 2010, and 19 in 2012. A missing year unless the birthday is between march 21st and June 1st. Also a thread on that body building forum by this person states he did it with only 12 weeks of work rather then a year an 9 months. But I all that matters is that he is happy.

Body building has always seem a little silly to me. Why should people be rewarded for going over board. Body building should be about building the body and not just muscles. There is after all such a thing as being to built.

Last edited by rhorle; 2013-01-16 at 12:01 AM.

"Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

A grown man making an informed decision to use steroids is so far away from a 7 year old getting raped that the fact that you even made that comparison shows me you have no interest in having a rational discussion about this topic.

You know what else is bad for people's health? Tobacco. Alcohol. There's nothing wrong with restrictions on steroids, just like there's nothing wrong with the restrictions of the sale of tobacco and alcohol to minors. The problem is that steroids are outright illegal (unless you're rich and find a doctor who will prescribe them to you for "low testosterone"). All the illegalization of steroids does is create irrational fear and suppress knowledge, preventing people from making informed decisions. And, as this thread proves, people still use steroids even though they're illegal, only it's much more dangerous buying steroids off the streets because there's no quality control (ie: random chemist doesn't have to get his shit approved by the FDA). The illegalization of steroids does NOT prevent anyone from using steroids; anyone with Internet access can get all the steroids they want delivered to their doorstep. This prohibition of steroids only serves to hurt the countless number of people who do choose to use them.

Also, I would argue that it's a person's inalienable right to be able to put substances in their own body without hurting anyone else.

By this logic, why not illegalize strip clubs? They serve no purpose other than entertainment. Let's illegalize TV too, except for stations like PBS and the History channel. Oh, and the Internet can only be used for research.

Tobacco and alcohol should logically be illegal. But just because the government has chosen to make those legal does not mean steroids should be. I thought I made that clear. In any event, prohibition demonstrates that it is constitutional to ban substances.

Free speech was part of both the Magna Carta and the Declaration of Rights. Plus it is part of the 1st amendment. Strip clubs are considered speech but can be restricted to specific parts of the city through time, place, and manner regulations. The others are also speech examples. Using steroids is not speech. Also, there is no inalienable right to be able to consume whatever you want to consume. I suppose the best argument for there being one is the right to privacy. But the right to privacy is a very nebulous thing and has historically not encompassed what you suggest it does. Steroids are also unique from alcohol and tobacco as it is not part of history and culture. Activities and things that are part of our culture are afforded greater protection than new and analogous things for political and practical reasons.

You are not being patriotic by breaking the law and taking steroids. You are being a criminal.

Tobacco and alcohol should logically be illegal. But just because the government has chosen to make those legal does not mean steroids should be. I thought I made that clear. In any event, prohibition demonstrates that it is constitutional to ban substances.

There is no way you can make the argument that alcohol should "logically" be illegal. The Prohibition era (where alcohol was illegal) was a massive failure that required a constitutional amendment to repeal the amendment that initiated Prohibition.

Prohibition proved that making alcohol illegal causes more problems than it solves. We should apply that same logic to steroids (and cannabis, and other recreational drugs).

Originally Posted by jbhasban

Free speech was part of both the Magna Carta and the Declaration of Rights. Plus it is part of the 1st amendment. Strip clubs are considered speech but can be restricted to specific parts of the city through time, place, and manner regulations. The others are also speech examples. Using steroids is not speech. Also, there is no inalienable right to be able to consume whatever you want to consume. I suppose the best argument for there being one is the right to privacy. But the right to privacy is a very nebulous thing and has historically not encompassed what you suggest it does. Steroids are also unique from alcohol and tobacco as it is not part of history and culture. Activities and things that are part of our culture are afforded greater protection than new and analogous things for political and practical reasons.

Strip clubs are free speech? Do you realize what happens inside strip clubs? Because it sure as hell doesn't involve a lot of talking.

Your entire argument is based around the "is-ought" fallacy. You're arguing that because this is the way it is, this is the way it should be. Just because history does not support chemical substances being legal does not mean that these substances should continue to be illegal in the future.

There is no way you can make the argument that alcohol should "logically" be illegal. The Prohibition era (where alcohol was illegal) was a massive failure that required a constitutional amendment to repeal the amendment that initiated Prohibition.

Prohibition proved that making alcohol illegal causes more problems than it solves. We should apply that same logic to steroids (and cannabis, and other recreational drugs).

Strip clubs are free speech? Do you realize what happens inside strip clubs? Because it sure as hell doesn't involve a lot of talking.

Your entire argument is based around the "is-ought" fallacy. You're arguing that because this is the way it is, this is the way it should be. Just because history does not support chemical substances being legal does not mean that these substances should continue to be illegal in the future.

Prohibition proved that banning a drug that has historically been allowed causes more problems than it solves. It does not show that banning ALL drugs causes more problems than it solves. That's why history is important. When society has accepted a drug as an ok vice, it becomes impossible to ban it because people will not follow the law. However, alcohol and tobacco serve very minor health purposes (in which case they can be used as a medicine). I don't see the purpose of using either that's why I think it should logically be banned ASSUMING society were willing to accept it.

Prohibition proved that banning a drug that has historically been allowed causes more problems than it solves. It does not show that banning ALL drugs causes more problems than it solves. That's why history is important. When society has accepted a drug as an ok vice, it becomes impossible to ban it because people will not follow the law. However, alcohol and tobacco serve very minor health purposes (in which case they can be used as a medicine). I don't see the purpose of using either that's why I think it should logically be banned ASSUMING society were willing to accept it.

Society will never be willing to accept it. There will always be a demand for drugs with recreational value, from steroids to alcohol to heroin. If you make these drugs illegal, then:

1) Criminals can make vast amounts of profit selling drugs (this actually gives people an incentive to become criminals; those profits would not exist if drugs were legal)
2) Drug users use untested, unregulated chemicals that are much more dangerous than pure pharmaceutical chemicals
3) Prisons and jails become overcrowded: over 25% of the people in jail and prison in the US are in there for non-violent, non-DUI related drug charges
4) Once said drug users leave prison, they have felonies on their criminal record and can not get hired for meaningful jobs

Every last one of those problems would be fixed if steroids and recreational drugs were made legal. No matter how you personally feel about steroids and drugs (clearly you're against them), you have to be able to see the benefit of taking money away from criminals and allowing prisoners who have done nothing wrong other than use drugs to be accommodated back into society.

Yes, drugs and steroids can be unhealthy for you. But illegalizing these drugs only exacerbates the problem instead of solving it.

Hey guys idk whats with all the hate... Steroids or not its an amazing transformation. I don't see why people are butthurt over steroid use? I love bodybuilding but all I see is mostly hate from people outside of it (Talking crap about Steroids, Insulin, HCG, HGH). I want to see people push the human body to its limits, same with other sports to (Football,Rugby,MMA, ect, ect) I WANT TO SEE PEOPLE PERFORM. Drugs or not, Its not like your gonna shoot some Testosterone Enanthate into your glute and win a Mr Olympia, or win the SuperBowl, or win a Heavyweight mma title, ect, ect. Its just sad how the media makes it seems like its a horrible thing. We all know steroid use in sports are strong... But nobody wants to tell the kids? An adult can be as stupid as a kid when it comes to AAS (Just look at the Media, Filled with Adults that dont know jack shit about steroids LOL) . Its not like just because you get older you automatically gain knowledge about everything. If this kid is going go pro then there isnt a problem. But if he is using Steroids to get girls or noticed at the club...THen.... He probably wont be a pro.

Hey guys idk whats with all the hate... Steroids or not its an amazing transformation. I don't see why people are butthurt over steroid use? I love bodybuilding but all I see is mostly hate from people outside of it (Talking crap about Steroids, Insulin, HCG, HGH). I want to see people push the human body to its limits, same with other sports to (Football,Rugby,MMA, ect, ect) I WANT TO SEE PEOPLE PERFORM. Drugs or not, Its not like your gonna shoot some Testosterone Enanthate into your glute and win a Mr Olympia, or win the SuperBowl, or win a Heavyweight mma title, ect, ect. Its just sad how the media makes it seems like its a horrible thing. We all know steroid use in sports are strong... But nobody wants to tell the kids? An adult can be as stupid as a kid when it comes to AAS (Just look at the Media, Filled with Adults that dont know jack shit about steroids LOL) . Its not like just because you get older you automatically gain knowledge about everything. If this kid is going go pro then there isnt a problem. But if he is using Steroids to get girls or noticed at the club...THen.... He probably wont be a pro.

Sandy, we dont know the risk of prolonged use of steroids because there havent been studies on it. Long term use studies are VERY hard to do. What we do know is that steroids causes a personality change in a lot of people. Roid rage, where someone simply cannot control themselves, may be rare. My dad is a neurologist who prescribes steroids to many of his patients. A lot of the spouses report that their husbands have become more irritable and aggressive. It causes hypogonadism in a lot of people and sometimes the condition is semi permanent after extended use (takes months to recover) and testosterone levels may become lower than basal rate as a consequence of permanent damage. Some people develop growths on their organs that can be fatal especially when the growths are located on the heart. Many people (maybe most) suffer no noticeable problems at all.

Does smoking cause similar and worse problems? Yeah. But smoking's allure is supposed coolness. Smoking really is not considered cool anymore and the primary reason people still take it is because of its addictive nature. That smoking is addictive is both a reason to keep it legal and to ban it depending on your interpretation of the purpose of society (an addicted population needs to have access to their addiction or they will become unruly and damaging). Steroids on the other hand are used regularly by the general population in order to try and look like magazine cover models who tend to be anorexic and genetically gifted in the first place and are not chemically addictive. We put warnings on smoking packets and have had active campaigns to fight big tobacco. Most adults are not intelligent enough to know the risks associated with steroids and that magazine cover models are not realistic ideals. Kids are even more prone to ignorance on the issue and are even more susceptible to the damages of steroids. As for allowing athletes to use steroids openly? Then we promote a generation of teenagers and parents of teenagers to give their children steroids in the hopes that they may go pro even more so than they already do today. Half of my wrestling and football team were on roids in high school.

Sandy, we dont know the risk of prolonged use of steroids because there havent been studies on it. Long term use studies are VERY hard to do. What we do know is that steroids causes a personality change in a lot of people. Roid rage, where someone simply cannot control themselves, may be rare. My dad is a neurologist who prescribes steroids to many of his patients. A lot of the spouses report that their husbands have become more irritable and aggressive. It causes hypogonadism in a lot of people and sometimes the condition is semi permanent after extended use (takes months to recover) and testosterone levels may become lower than basal rate as a consequence of permanent damage. Some people develop growths on their organs that can be fatal especially when the growths are located on the heart. Many people (maybe most) suffer no noticeable problems at all.

Does smoking cause similar and worse problems? Yeah. But smoking's allure is supposed coolness. Smoking really is not considered cool anymore and the primary reason people still take it is because of its addictive nature. That smoking is addictive is both a reason to keep it legal and to ban it depending on your interpretation of the purpose of society (an addicted population needs to have access to their addiction or they will become unruly and damaging). Steroids on the other hand are used regularly by the general population in order to try and look like magazine cover models who tend to be anorexic and genetically gifted in the first place and are not chemically addictive. We put warnings on smoking packets and have had active campaigns to fight big tobacco. Most adults are not intelligent enough to know the risks associated with steroids and that magazine cover models are not realistic ideals. Kids are even more prone to ignorance on the issue and are even more susceptible to the damages of steroids. As for allowing athletes to use steroids openly? Then we promote a generation of teenagers and parents of teenagers to give their children steroids in the hopes that they may go pro even more so than they already do today. Half of my wrestling and football team were on roids in high school.

Well lets look it at this way... I'm an active steroid user and I've never experienced "Roid Rage" its a term coined by the media. Yes increased Testosterone and lead to more aggravation BUT I've never experience anything like that unless I'm using something severe like Trenbolone. And Yes injecting Testosterone will suppress and shut down natural Testosterone. I'm eligible for TRT (Testosterone replacement therapy) after I get off Testosterone BECAUSE my system is shut down. BUT I use Clomid and Nolvadex to sorta restart my system to bring my test levels back to 600+. Some men never come back but most do. Its a huge difference to me when I have Testosterone levels up near 3000 than I do when I'm off cycle at about 600-800. Yes they do effect emotions but if you already have Anger Management Issues or ADHD or something else.... Then stuff like that can get worse on Cycle and your still gonna have it either way. There are tons of problems when injecting yourself with tons of Hormones... The younger you are the more dangerous they can be BUT the more of a chance you have at becoming pro starting at a younger age.

I've also experienced slight growth problems due to HGH abuse (Roid Belly,Ect,Ect) which sucks. And yeah the media/magizines all suck. It's horrible for teenagers because they see this stuff and they feel like they NEED that. A lot of kids at my highschool back then were using drugs as well for sports... Mainly DBol only cycles which is dumb. I admit I was taking Testosterone shots at the age of 16.. And was bigger than all the other guys but I would never ever ever tell people that I was on them because that ruins my chances of ever receiving sponsorship. Most the kids were getting Gynecomastia because they didn't know how to control estro and such. I'm just saying people should leave these kinds of things to Athletes/Doctors before making swift judgement. You can reap the benefits of certain drugs if you have your Diet/Exercise/Sleeping down.
OH and sorry if it seemed like I was trying to argue with you, I'm just venting because of people in this thread sadly.

Sadly I wouldn't be where I am today if I didn't start at a young age...*

Well lets look it at this way... I'm an active steroid user and I've never experienced "Roid Rage" its a term coined by the media. Yes increased Testosterone and lead to more aggravation BUT I've never experience anything like that unless I'm using something severe like Trenbolone. And Yes injecting Testosterone will suppress and shut down natural Testosterone. I'm eligible for TRT (Testosterone replacement therapy) after I get off Testosterone BECAUSE my system is shut down. BUT I use Clomid and Nolvadex to sorta restart my system to bring my test levels back to 600+. Some men never come back but most do. Its a huge difference to me when I have Testosterone levels up near 3000 than I do when I'm off cycle at about 600-800. Yes they do effect emotions but if you already have Anger Management Issues or ADHD or something else.... Then stuff like that can get worse on Cycle and your still gonna have it either way. There are tons of problems when injecting yourself with tons of Hormones... The younger you are the more dangerous they can be BUT the more of a chance you have at becoming pro starting at a younger age.

I've also experienced slight growth problems due to HGH abuse (Roid Belly,Ect,Ect) which sucks. And yeah the media/magizines all suck. It's horrible for teenagers because they see this stuff and they feel like they NEED that. A lot of kids at my highschool back then were using drugs as well for sports... Mainly DBol only cycles which is dumb. I admit I was taking Testosterone shots at the age of 16.. And was bigger than all the other guys but I would never ever ever tell people that I was on them because that ruins my chances of ever receiving sponsorship. Most the kids were getting Gynecomastia because they didn't know how to control estro and such. I'm just saying people should leave these kinds of things to Athletes/Doctors before making swift judgement. You can reap the benefits of certain drugs if you have your Diet/Exercise/Sleeping down.
OH and sorry if it seemed like I was trying to argue with you, I'm just venting because of people in this thread sadly.

Sadly I wouldn't be where I am today if I didn't start at a young age...*

You do realize that a huge percentage (30-60%) of guys get Gynecomastia as a consequence of normal aging? It may have not been related to their steroid abuse.

I mostly get pissed at guys who go to steroid users at the gym to ask for advise and the steroid users (who know NOTHING about lifting) tell them how to exercise. So many people get injured as a consequence of bad advice from supposedly fit people.

Truth be told ive never been in a strip joint. It would be against my religion.

Here's something you need to understand - everyone is cool with you believing whatever you'd like, religiously, but that does not give a valid basis for you to dictate behavior to other people on the basis of your religious ideas. There are people that drink, have smoked weed, and used drugs that are flat out better people than you are.

Here's something you need to understand - everyone is cool with you believing whatever you'd like, religiously, but that does not give a valid basis for you to dictate behavior to other people on the basis of your religious ideas. There are people that drink, have smoked weed, and used drugs that are flat out better people than you are.

He never said don't go to a strip club because it's against his religion, he said he doesn't go to them. Big difference.

Sandy, we dont know the risk of prolonged use of steroids because there havent been studies on it. Long term use studies are VERY hard to do. What we do know is that steroids causes a personality change in a lot of people. Roid rage, where someone simply cannot control themselves, may be rare. My dad is a neurologist who prescribes steroids to many of his patients. A lot of the spouses report that their husbands have become more irritable and aggressive. It causes hypogonadism in a lot of people and sometimes the condition is semi permanent after extended use (takes months to recover) and testosterone levels may become lower than basal rate as a consequence of permanent damage. Some people develop growths on their organs that can be fatal especially when the growths are located on the heart. Many people (maybe most) suffer no noticeable problems at all.

Does smoking cause similar and worse problems? Yeah. But smoking's allure is supposed coolness. Smoking really is not considered cool anymore and the primary reason people still take it is because of its addictive nature. That smoking is addictive is both a reason to keep it legal and to ban it depending on your interpretation of the purpose of society (an addicted population needs to have access to their addiction or they will become unruly and damaging). Steroids on the other hand are used regularly by the general population in order to try and look like magazine cover models who tend to be anorexic and genetically gifted in the first place and are not chemically addictive. We put warnings on smoking packets and have had active campaigns to fight big tobacco. Most adults are not intelligent enough to know the risks associated with steroids and that magazine cover models are not realistic ideals. Kids are even more prone to ignorance on the issue and are even more susceptible to the damages of steroids. As for allowing athletes to use steroids openly? Then we promote a generation of teenagers and parents of teenagers to give their children steroids in the hopes that they may go pro even more so than they already do today. Half of my wrestling and football team were on roids in high school.

Not knowing the long-term dangers isn't a good enough argument to keep things illegal. We don't know the long-term dangers of SSRI use (SSRIs are prescription antidepressants). Those drugs have only been around since the 90s. The most common steroids have been around longer than that.

While I think steroids should be legal for the general population, I do agree with you that steroids should not be allowed in competitive athletics. Parents already put wayyy too much emphasis on athletics for kids. Allowing them to poison their kid's bodies with steroids for a competitive advantage is just wrong.