theresnothinglft:A car that I own must be able to do a road trip of at least 400 miles.

You want to know what the future of electric cars is going to be, assuming the gasoline industry doesn't suppress it indefinitely? Highways that charge your car. Some electric cars are now able to receive power wirelessly from a pad that sits below the car without having to plug in to the wall. All roads need regular maintenance, obviously, so gradually, as they are torn up and repaved, we can lay charging strips at the center of each lane of a highway, or even just two lanes of each highway.

What this means: The effective range of the car only applies when you are on local roads -- as long as you stay on the highway, the range of your vehicle is indefinite. This would make electric cars the optimum choice for nearly everyone. It might mean tolls on highways for electric cars, but it would also mean pretty much never having to go out of your way to charge your vehicle.

moike:If I'm going to pay 20 grand for something with three wheels it better at least carry two people, do 200mph, and lay long lurid darkies when you wack the throttle wide open... even at triple digit speeds...

[sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 720x479]

That second person looks nowhere near comfortable. Plus when skid marks in your underwear are caused by actual skid marks on the ground, that vehicle doesn't seem like a viable option.

bluefoxicy:MindStalker: Drop off my kids at school, I no longer need the passenger module, so I either park it at their school, or lug it with me to work anyways.

The easy solution is to get your kid a Trek Bicycle and make them bike to school, but then one day you look for [movin' 500 donuts a day but barely squeakin' by] but all you can find is [teenager running a sprint] and you drive around the parking lot for 40 hours looking for your kid.

Tom_Slick:Huck And Molly Ziegler: A safe driving environment for me would be a 1953 Chrysler Imperial retrofitted with seat & shoulder belts and a driver's seat with a head restraint.It's probably got enough sheet metal that would roll out to form two modern cars.

Nope crumple zones make a huge difference.

And everything else, I see. The 1959--no seat belt, no air bag, one monolithic bench seat. Test dummy gets rocketed into the ceiling, arms flailing wildly, because the bench seat breaks free and springs around.The modern: bucket seat, three point harness, and air bag. Test dummy stays in the seat and eats warm canvas, but that's about it.

OK, flame away at this, but I think there's are counters to the points you guys are making here:

1. It's unsafe.

So are motorcycles and scooters, really, but people ride those and that's who these are marketed towards. If you're that concerned about safety, you're not going to buy a motorcycle or scooter, either, so it's not marketed towards you.

I'll grant you that you probably aren't considering something like this if you were looking into a motorcycle because part of owning a motorcycle is the machismo of it, even a crotch rocket. This isn't the most macho vehicle. But a lot of the scooter owners I know, particularly female ones, would love to have a little more safety, something that's easier to steer, the ability to carry more than a small bag of groceries and the convenience of not having to ruin their hair with a helmet all the time. Bonus on the fully-electric part.

Looked at that way, and looking at how many people have embraced scooters, it's just an improvement on that idea. Only disadvantage is it takes a little more space than a scooter. So be it.

2. It won't drive well in bad weather.

Again, neither does a motorcycle or a scooter. The scooter owners I know have a reasonable car they drive in those conditions. They save so much in the months they use the scooter that it pays off in the end.

3. It costs too much.

Again, it's what you save down the line, plus, the cost will go down. The early adopters will have to pay, but it will get better if there are early adopters. One of these ideas will eventually catch on, so there will be.

4. It looks dorky.

This is the only thing I can't counter you on. But I will say this: As a compact car driver (just a good ol' all-American Chevy Cobalt), I can't tell you how annoying it is to not be able to see around curb-parked SUVs when trying to pull onto streets, how slowly they accelerate to speed on the freeway, when they can't/won't see you or make room for you trying to change lanes, etc. If there's one part of American driving culture I'd like to change, it would be our me-first fascination with the SUV. For what? So we can have more space to ourselves? Because bigger "looks cooler"?

How about this foreign concept for Americans: THINK ABOUT OTHERS FOR ONCE. That SUV that's great for you is annoying for a lot of other people.

So yeah, on the looks part, no small car that isn't a sports car is going to look cool to us. But, at some point, that's something we should maybe think about changing. I know practical is uncool to us, but that's also why we're knee-deep in a lengthy recession and most Americans are in a ridiculous amount of debt. So yeah, want to fix that? Maybe think about being a little uncool but saving some money.

If the price was right, I'd consider it. 200 miles is acceptable for what it is - a motorcycle that you can drive comfortably in the rain. My only real concern is how quickly does it accelerate? Not expecting the torque of a Ducati, but I'd rather not be rear ended while I putter up to highway speeds.

bluefoxicy:moothemagiccow: I might never understand the fetishization of cars. It's like buying a cool-looking hammer.

Eastwing hammers are extremely well-balanced and comfortable in the hand. I've tried, and compared to a $5 department store hammer (which the head eventually falls off of anyway, so okay in a home toolkit for occasional use but not for a contractor), they're a lot easier to make fly straight. With about zero experience, I was able to take full swings and hit nails straight on with the Eastwing.

It's also nice looking. But the balance and the quality of manufacture--the fact that it's full steel tang with either a synthetic or a polished hard leather wrapped handle--makes all the difference. Heads don't fall off of solid chunks of forged high-quality steel. Full tang handles don't break. Balanced tools--hammers, knives, swords, drills--go exactly where you put them and inflict less fatigue.

I don't want a flashy car that's a piece of shiat, like a Ferrari that needs $15k of maintenance every year if it's your daily driver. A Porsche won't bankrupt you, it's like any other car, but it's a damn high-end car. Audi cars, same deal, very nice cars, not as expensive as Porsche, you won't impress as many people talking about your awesome Audi, and it looks like any other car unless you buy a really high-end one, but they last forever and they're cheap to maintain and they have excellent AWD and handling and power and everything. These are cars. Italian cars are penis prosthesis.

Looks like a hammer, and you extol the fact that it actually works better. That's probably why you bought it.

santadog:For $6,000 you can buy a 550cc scooter that gets about 60mpg.200miles on a single charge. I like it.

The guy interviewed in the article hinted that for urban hipsters who care more about gadgets than cars, the trick is to come up with a vehicle that you can sell as another cute gadget. Hence the boom in scooters.

czetie:So apart from taking a written test, waiting 60 days, then taking a test on a borrowed/rented trike, you can pretty much sign and drive, just like a real car? That sounds like a good way to get more stupid, inexperienced drivers on the road to pose a danger to themselves and others.

When I took my driver's test for my car, I had an automatic transmission and made three right turns in a parking lot and parallel parked once. I failed the parallel parking part. The parking lot was about 40 feet across. They still gave me a license, it took 5 minutes.

I drive a manual transmission now, taught myself by driving it home after I bought it.

I actually know how to drive. I notice excess contention and review things I did wrong, like failing to check for a passing car, not observing a particular hazard I'd never regarded before, making a maneuver without thinking about what was out of sight (i.e. steering around a stopped car without considering that I can't see the door opening on the car parked ahead of it), failing to yield to another driver in a situation where I should... stupid crap happens, I take the time to notice, analyze, and correct these behaviors. I've developed skills for handling poor situations--weather, driving conditions, pedestrian behavior, other drivers' misbehavior, and so on. I maintain my car properly.

I still say they should have put me and everyone else on the road through a full defensive driving course, advanced driving course (skid control, hazard assessment, vehicle dynamics, braking techniques, collision avoidance techniques), and vehicle maintenance course. I know it would have cost a lot more, and I wouldn't have gotten a car until a year or three later. I don't care. A full 1 hour road test would be good too, should be standard.

When I started driving, I drove worse. Hell, I drove worse last year. I got better. I'll get better.

Meanwhile I encounter stupid drivers who don't yield when I signal to come over. I encounter people who actually speed up. I've performed a lane toss at 70mph (traffic flow) because some idiot in what should be my blind spot (my mirrors are adjusted to eliminate blind spots completely) decided to change lanes into my passenger side rear door... he almost did it too, one quick check in my rear view mirror and i figured I had just enough room, signaled and pulled the car immediately into the next lane so fast I left skid marks behind. Signalling was probably pointless.

Boston left hand turns. People who pull directly in front of you and stop on roads with speed limits at 40-50mph, at speed, giving you 40 feet to stop or else you get to stick your engine in their lap. People who drive around on bald tires. People whose brakes fail--you hear the SCREEE SCREEE SCREE of brake shoes that should have been changed 6 months ago, then you see them sail through stop lights and into parked cars.

Why are these people licensed?

One day I need to get some money and take a driving day at Skip Barber's school on the combined course. I can get a refresher with 8 hours of skidpan practice here (on Fedex's massive fleet parking lot) for $300, I should do that every fall before the winter freeze.

bluefoxicy:moothemagiccow: I might never understand the fetishization of cars. It's like buying a cool-looking hammer.

Eastwing hammers are extremely well-balanced and comfortable in the hand. I've tried, and compared to a $5 department store hammer (which the head eventually falls off of anyway, so okay in a home toolkit for occasional use but not for a contractor), they're a lot easier to make fly straight. With about zero experience, I was able to take full swings and hit nails straight on with the Eastwing.

It's also nice looking. But the balance and the quality of manufacture--the fact that it's full steel tang with either a synthetic or a polished hard leather wrapped handle--makes all the difference. Heads don't fall off of solid chunks of forged high-quality steel. Full tang handles don't break. Balanced tools--hammers, knives, swords, drills--go exactly where you put them and inflict less fatigue.

I don't want a flashy car that's a piece of shiat, like a Ferrari that needs $15k of maintenance every year if it's your daily driver. A Porsche won't bankrupt you, it's like any other car, but it's a damn high-end car. Audi cars, same deal, very nice cars, not as expensive as Porsche, you won't impress as many people talking about your awesome Audi, and it looks like any other car unless you buy a really high-end one, but they last forever and they're cheap to maintain and they have excellent AWD and handling and power and everything. These are cars. Italian cars are penis prosthesis.

Five pages of fools decrying how unsafe it is. The only possible time this vehicle would be less safe than anything else on the market is if a Wily Coyote weight fell directly on top of it while it was in a stuck, prone position, or if it got smashed between vehicle without a way to move in. The damn thing is build to be knocked around. The size and curvature is built to physically be more resistant to crumpling than any vehicle with a generally flat side ala everything on the market. No, Stupid McStupid and Oldy McDold will have an awful time with it because it require actual attention and safe habits to use it properly.

WTF is wrong with today. Fark is at it's most derpiest I have ever seen.

Jument:Nabb1: hillbillypharmacist: "Safety of a car"?I'm gonna need to see some test results on that.

Yeah, that looks like a deathtrap, especially in a side-impact collision.

Well, deathtrap is a bit extreme. It's no more a deathtrap than a motorcycle or a scooter, at first glance. The "safety of a car" quote is mind boggling. That just seems unpossible.

The biggest safety advantage of a motorcycle is visibility and awareness. I sit higher on my motorcycle than my pickup truck, and have pretty much 360 awareness at any point in time with zero blind spots.

This... thing, is a motorcycle with blind spots. It's ridiculously unsafe. I also don't understand why he has a motorcycle tire on the front if he's got a gyro that prevents it from leaning over. That old June 1936 magazine ad makes way more sense. You want to corner like a motorcycle at high speeds, and have 4 wheels at slow speeds for stability.

bluefoxicy:That's because, at an unfounded guess, you probably think terribly built Italian Lambos and Ferraris are good cars, rather than grounded shiat boxes with huge engines.

In terms of performance, Lamborghini and Ferrari aren't just good...they are outstanding. While you could certainly make a case for past Lamborghini cars like the Diablo and Countach as being poorly built and overpowered, the Aventador and Gallardo are pound for pound some of the best cars in existence. Same with Ferrari and it's 458, 599 GTO, etc.

Yes, they are extremely expensive and high maintenance, but as feats of engineering they are almost currently unrivaled, except for cars like the MP4-12C, Veyron, and a scant few others.

/I've seen this bitter hatred towards European performance cars before.

To me it was painless and I did it on a bike rather than a trike, it took 1 hour for the written test and 2 hours for the driving test including the inevitable wait times at the DMV, the written test was easy just having to learn hand signals rules of the road etc, and the driving test just made sure you could start, stop and turn left and right. I would think a modern trike would be even easier as you don't have to learn how to handle a bike.

i definitely want one if it meets these 3 requirements:1. it needs to be as safe or almost as safe as a standard compact car2. it needs to handle reasonably well and not be prone to tipping3. it needs to cost $10,000 or less

bluefoxicy:I don't want a flashy car that's a piece of shiat, like a Ferrari that needs $15k of maintenance every year if it's your daily driver. A Porsche won't bankrupt you, it's like any other car, but it's a damn high-end car. Audi cars, same deal, very nice cars, not as expensive as Porsche, you won't impress as many people talking about your awesome Audi, and it looks like any other car unless you buy a really high-end one, but they last forever and they're cheap to maintain and they have excellent AWD and handling and power and everything. These are cars. Italian cars are penis prosthesis.

flux:theresnothinglft: A car that I own must be able to do a road trip of at least 400 miles.

You want to know what the future of electric cars is going to be, assuming the gasoline industry doesn't suppress it indefinitely? Highways that charge your car. Some electric cars are now able to receive power wirelessly from a pad that sits below the car without having to plug in to the wall. All roads need regular maintenance, obviously, so gradually, as they are torn up and repaved, we can lay charging strips at the center of each lane of a highway, or even just two lanes of each highway.

What this means: The effective range of the car only applies when you are on local roads -- as long as you stay on the highway, the range of your vehicle is indefinite. This would make electric cars the optimum choice for nearly everyone. It might mean tolls on highways for electric cars, but it would also mean pretty much never having to go out of your way to charge your vehicle.

When this finally gets implemented it will be AWESOME. That is assuming the petrol industry doesn't stonewall it.

Glitchwerks:In terms of performance, Lamborghini and Ferrari aren't just good...they are outstanding. [...]

Yes, they are extremely expensive and high maintenance, but as feats of engineering they are almost currently unrivaled, except for cars like the MP4-12C, Veyron, and a scant few others.

So, they're basically like the Saturn V? "Amazing feat of engineering" in that it ... gets into space; but it's expensive as hell, and by the time it gets up there 80% of the body is destroyed, a little capsule comes back and you build a whole new one?

Face it, they built a high-performance car--a car with a big engine and decent suspension--but you need to pay as much every year to keep it running as you would to just buy a 2005 Pontiac GTO which, if you didn't maintain it, would also perform extremely well and last more than a year anyway.

It's a crap car. It's shiny, it has a big engine, it goes vroom vroom and moves very fast, and it breaks down faster than the shiattiest GM car you can find. While you dodge potholes like landmines, Porsche owners are just yawning and rolling over them. Ferrari is to cars like DIVX is to video cassette tapes.

Look at how this thing leans and tell me that a car owner will see it as a car and not a motorcycle

Also: Not sure you can pass the motorcycle driving test in that thing. Image doing the 'sharp turn at low speed' test! sure, it can do low speeds, but with that wheelbase you'd be lucky to stay inside the guidelines.

bluefoxicy:Face it, they built a high-performance car--a car with a big engine and decent suspension--but you need to pay as much every year to keep it running as you would to just buy a 2005 Pontiac GTO which, if you didn't maintain it, would also perform extremely well and last more than a year anyway.

High performance cars have high maintenance costs. So does Porsche although admittedly Porsche is considered "the everyday, livable" super car.

By the way, a Pontiac GTO isn't going to perform anywhere near a 458 or Aventador. Why compare them?

bluefoxicy:While you dodge potholes like landmines, Porsche owners are just yawning and rolling over them. Ferrari is to cars like DIVX is to video cassette tapes.

Arguing over Porsche and Ferrari is pointless. I, personally, like both brands. Both continually push the envelopes for performance and engineering, in motorsport and in road cars.

Throwing poo at Ferrari because they are expensive just seems to be missing the point entirely.

Glitchwerks:Audi, BMW, and Mercedes are quite expensive to maintain in the U.S.

You mean they cost more to maintain than just outright buying a new Volkswagen every year? Because I know someone who had an Audi S5 for 13 years and didn't sink more than a grand into it each year. When he got it, it was already old--he paid $1000 for it and got it running well in another $500 (he fixed a door that didn't close properly and a window that didn't roll up, and ran new brake lines).

An S5 costs at most $2000/year to maintain, about what a Mazda 3S might cost if driven 15k/year. A Ferrari costs like 6 years of S5 per year.

This type of "enclosed motorcycle" has been tried before. Almost nobody buys them, because they aren't practical as the only car in a household (you can't go grocery shopping in them, for instance), yet cost just as much as an actual car (especially slightly used ones). If you could sell this for eight grand, maybe, as a second, communting vehicle. But for sixteen? Nope.

RTOGUY:Forget the side impact concern I'd like to know how he thinks it is capable of driving in "all weather". Anybody that lives anywhere with four distinct seasons has to look at that and wonder how it is going to handle any amount of snow. It doesn't tip over? Gee that's great! Can it handle a 3' snowdrift? Because that is my reality for at least half of the year.

The company's in San Francisco. The locals' idea of "all weather" means "it rains sometimes, so this thing will keep you dry and keep the mud off you".

Calm down people. There's no law that says you have to buy one. I imagine there being similar hate threads years ago when the Prius was announced. It's a concept vehicle, market forces will dictate whether it survives, not whether farkers think it's stupid/expensive/crash worthy

The discs didn't wear out. You were provided a limited number of views with disc you purchased. DIVX now is a video codec.

bluefoxicy:An S5 costs at most $2000/year to maintain, about what a Mazda 3S might cost if driven 15k/year. A Ferrari costs like 6 years of S5 per year.

And your point is? Ferrari is a far more exhilarating car to drive and will easily whoop an S5.

Your arguments are pointless. You don't buy an Ariel Atom to drive the kids to school. You drive it to spank the pants off everything else on track days. You don't buy a 458 to commute to work. You drive it because it's an incredibly well performing car with an engine cranking out better music than Vivaldi right behind your ears.

Fighting over Ferrari and Porsche is like fighting over Olivia Wilde and Kate Upton. What's the farking point?

Glitchwerks:bluefoxicy: You can watch a DIVX disc 5 times and then it's wore out.

The discs didn't wear out. You were provided a limited number of views with disc you purchased. DIVX now is a video codec.

bluefoxicy: An S5 costs at most $2000/year to maintain, about what a Mazda 3S might cost if driven 15k/year. A Ferrari costs like 6 years of S5 per year.

And your point is? Ferrari is a far more exhilarating car to drive and will easily whoop an S5.

Your arguments are pointless. You don't buy an Ariel Atom to drive the kids to school. You drive it to spank the pants off everything else on track days. You don't buy a 458 to commute to work. You drive it because it's an incredibly well performing car with an engine cranking out better music than Vivaldi right behind your ears.

Fighting over Ferrari and Porsche is like fighting over Olivia Wilde and Kate Upton. What's the farking point?

Also, not sure where his friend got an S5 that he's had for 13 years given the fact that they were introduced in 2007.

bluefoxicy:moothemagiccow: I might never understand the fetishization of cars. It's like buying a cool-looking hammer.

Eastwing hammers are extremely well-balanced and comfortable in the hand. I've tried, and compared to a $5 department store hammer (which the head eventually falls off of anyway, so okay in a home toolkit for occasional use but not for a contractor), they're a lot easier to make fly straight. With about zero experience, I was able to take full swings and hit nails straight on with the Eastwing.

It's "Estwing", and I also love my Estwing hammer. Easily worth the extra money even for infrequent use. A properly weighted, well-balanced hammer takes a lot of the work out of it for you.

was waiting to get off of work just to post a pic of the pulse.. Wanted one of those like all get out when I was a kid.

theresnothinglft:There are two things wrong with that car and they're with every electric car for that matter:

1. I can only afford to own one car.2. I need to be able to use that car to visit my parents 400 miles away..

A car that I own must be able to do a road trip of at least 400 miles. Unless someone invents a train service where i can park my car on a train to move longer distances, i'll never own a pure electric car unless it can go farther than 400 miles on 1 charge. The only other way an electric car can attact me is if i can trade the battery at a gas station for a charged battery. It's kind of like how they switched the reactor core on the ship in Fifth Element. When i can do that to my electric car you can get me into an electric car.

HatMadeOfAss:moike: If I'm going to pay 20 grand for something with three wheels it better at least carry two people, do 200mph, and lay long lurid darkies when you wack the throttle wide open... even at triple digit speeds...

[sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 720x479]

That second person looks nowhere near comfortable. Plus when skid marks in your underwear are caused by actual skid marks on the ground, that vehicle doesn't seem like a viable option.

I could give a crap if the organic traction control system is 'comfortable'... it just better be doing it's damn job.

As to the second part, we make them wear velcro-attached pucks on their asses just for that purpose.

Urban market, man. Urban. They're trying to sell them to people who live in cities. I've lived in cities my entire adult life; 90% of my grocery shopping is on foot or by bike. People in cities live near grocery stores, so we buy food as we need it, not all in one giant weekend trip that takes the entire trunk of the car.

bluefoxicy:Had a carpenter friend buy one of these types, wood handle pushed through the head and glued in place. He broke it in the first 10 minutes.

The hammer in that picture is likely 3 decades old and has been used for its intended purpose (hammering and pulling nails) for most of that time. If your carpenter friend really broke one like that in 10 minutes, he was using it wrong. The hammer he bought was probably from the dollar store.

There is nothing wrong quality wooden handled tools, and many carpenters prefer them.

Glitchwerks:bluefoxicy: That's because, at an unfounded guess, you probably think terribly built Italian Lambos and Ferraris are good cars, rather than grounded shiat boxes with huge engines.

In terms of performance, Lamborghini and Ferrari aren't just good...they are outstanding. While you could certainly make a case for past Lamborghini cars like the Diablo and Countach as being poorly built and overpowered, the Aventador and Gallardo are pound for pound some of the best cars in existence. Same with Ferrari and it's 458, 599 GTO, etc.

Yes, they are extremely expensive and high maintenance, but as feats of engineering they are almost currently unrivaled, except for cars like the MP4-12C, Veyron, and a scant few others.

/I've seen this bitter hatred towards European performance cars before.

There are modern, less expnesive approaches to supercar construction too .... a lot of the cars above involve paying extra for the badge, except for the McLaren.

Pfighting Polish:How about this foreign concept for Americans: THINK ABOUT OTHERS FOR ONCE. ...

You were making some great points until you got to this. Have you ever been to other countries? People are about as selfish as their options. The fact that you think otherwise and that you believe in American Exceptionalism tends to make people doubt your other arguments. Which were actually pretty good.

flux:theresnothinglft: A car that I own must be able to do a road trip of at least 400 miles.

You want to know what the future of electric cars is going to be, assuming the gasoline industry doesn't suppress it indefinitely? Highways that charge your car. Some electric cars are now able to receive power wirelessly from a pad that sits below the car without having to plug in to the wall. All roads need regular maintenance, obviously, so gradually, as they are torn up and repaved, we can lay charging strips at the center of each lane of a highway, or even just two lanes of each highway.

What this means: The effective range of the car only applies when you are on local roads -- as long as you stay on the highway, the range of your vehicle is indefinite. This would make electric cars the optimum choice for nearly everyone. It might mean tolls on highways for electric cars, but it would also mean pretty much never having to go out of your way to charge your vehicle.

This would be awesome. I'd want some lead-proofing of some sort on the underside of the car, but this would be a really ideal scenario. To save costs, you could even roll it out gradually, have one lane be the "recharge" lane.

ParaHandy:There are modern, less expnesive approaches to supercar construction too .... a lot of the cars above involve paying extra for the badge, except for the McLaren.

No argument there.

ParaHandy:And yes, it meets the cut on performance if not on price ....

The GT-R is a great performing car, but not quite on Ferrari's level in terms of style. Don't get me wrong though, I'd probably rather have an R34 GT-R than any other car in the world, excluding the M3 CSL.

mainsail:Holy Flyin' Mackerel; What speed were you traveling at? My TJ would need a lot of parts to make up $6K worth of accident...

I have a Nissan Xterra. My first deer to ever hit, and he came up along a steep ditch bank on the blackest of nights to run his knee (???, definitely just legs) into the side front panel, just in front of the passenger side hinge, down just behind the mudflap of my front wheel. It looked like someone threw a softball at my car (so it wasn't a full impact by a deer, you know). It took off some of the paint to expose the metal beneath. I went to get a quote, and they said $1500-2k after labor and everything. I was floored. Of course, this is a small town, I may get a better deal if I drove to the nearest big town, but... I guess it IS in a spot that's for stress points or something, so that's why it is more pricey. I don't know. Never had to deal with any kind of damage to a car before.