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Separate question as a gay circumcised male who only tops and has done so on occasion's with out a condom, but always using proper lubricant are his chances of getting HIV much less likely, as HIV is apparently difficult to transmit. Cause some of the HIV pamphlets I read state that as a Top your chances are significantly less of getting HIV..is this proper information?

which you answered thank you.

when you contract HIV as a Top and i realise that if you had an open wound on your penis that would be a major risk what other things could have happend as a Top to get HIV?

"Is the insertive partner (the "top") also at risk during unprotected anal intercourse? At least eight studies conducted over the years were unable to demonstrate a clear link between insertive anal sex and a risk for HIV infection among MSM. However, these studies should not be interpreted to mean that being the top during anal intercourse – and not using a condom – is without risk. We know that men can be infected with HIV through vaginal intercourse – an activity in which they are the insertive partner. Based on this knowledge, it is also believed that the insertive partner during unprotected anal intercourse can also be infected with HIV. Studies, using mathematical estimates, suggest that unprotected insertive anal sex is roughly four to 14 times less risky than unprotected receptive anal sex. However, experts still believe that the risk for transmission is noteworthy"

Reading this a person would think as a Top the chances are slim of contracting HIV and could some what be misguiding in my case in particular for my HIV tests i had years ago the nurse that took my blood was the first person to explain that a top is less at risk. "she did also say still at risk" for that reason alone i think i never wanted to be a bottom. But after hearing that HIV is not an easy virus to contract a person would assume that as long as your not bleeding or have a cut what are the chances?

« Last Edit: January 15, 2007, 10:35:31 PM by HIV? poz about being neg »

But after hearing that HIV is not an easy virus to contract a person would assume that as long as your not bleeding or have a cut what are the chances?

H,

How long is a piece of string? There are too many variables in real life to give a firm answer to your question.

The bottom line - no pun - is that anytime you stick your penis into the anus or vagina of someone whose hiv status you do not know, you are putting yourself at risk for not only hiv, but other STIs as well.

As I said to you before, I know plenty of hiv positive tops. Some have sex with men and some have sex with women. I don't suppose they would care much for stats or "the chances" of people who top unprotected. It doesn't matter how many get away with it, if you end up being one of the unlucky ones, those numbers mean nothing.

I understand that you may be trying to make yourself feel more confident while you're waiting for your results, but we cannot afford to be complacent here in this forum. Unprotected intercourse is a risk for hiv infection, top or bottom.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

thank you Ann and I do understand that I could be one of those unlucky ones and IM mostly trying to inform myself with everything I can. I am preparing myself for the chance that I am positive. And perhaps i am grasping alittle to find any excuse or reason to ease my worries as I wait for these results. And right now all I have is hope and I'm trying hard to think positive.IM just not sure the person I am can do this without hope and hearing the softer side and hearing things to keep healthy thoughts in my head. It helps to hear things and reasons that tell me I'm not positive. I understand all the reasons in the world mean nothing until these test come back.

Ann I realise IM jumping way ahead of things right now but I am really scared, I'm avoiding my friends and family because I'm not sure I'm strong enough to hide this from them and I'm sure that's not good , but I'm not ready to be this person.

I'm also wondering why did my DR. recommend The PCR DNA should i be concerned about that? It seems like everybody on here knows to do the RNA? And i even questioned RNA to him. Could there be a reason that he felt he should do a DNA test? He really seems to be a good DR. But i did also mention Dengue Fever to him which is now on the CDC web page as an apparent outbreak in Puerto Vallarta and he didn't do any test for that?

Does anyone know if there are specific test for Dengue and if so is it only seen on test while you are sick from symptoms?

« Last Edit: January 16, 2007, 01:29:06 PM by HIV? poz about being neg »

Regarding one post: Replicon--basically a piece of DNA or RNA that replicates from a single point of replication.

Retrovirus--this is the type of virus that HIV is. Too oversimplify it, it's transcription works the opposite of other viruses, which go from DNA to RNA. Retroviruses use reverse transcriptase to do a reverse transcription from RNA to DNA. That is a very simplified definition.

gp120 is a glycoprotein that is on the envelope of the HIV virus. If you see a picture, it is a spikey thing protruding from the surface. It is what binds to the CD4 receptor. It has been one of the targets of vaccine research, but there have been difficulties. Anyhow, this is just talking about using that as a tool to do a vaccine against both.

Regarding a different post: There are various types of tests for Dengue fever. The doctor may do a CBC. This is not for dengue fever, but he/she would be looking for things such things as an increased white count. There are serological tests for different types of the virus--these tests measure the antibodies. They may collect an acute sample and convalescent sample and an ELISA test to look for antibodies to dengue would be done. But that wouldn't really help you, since that requires you to have a sample almost as soon as you have symptoms and then another one about a week after the symptoms start. Of course, IgG type antibody tests tend to be positive for longer. There are also viral load tests for Dengue fever. Anyhow, there are many tests. many time they diagnose Dengue based on symptoms but laboratory confirmation is needed, so you can talk to your doctor regarding that..... Anyhow, I don't really remember off the top of my head what they would use to confirm it after the fact seeing as I don't deal with Dengue much. An infectious disease specialist would know more on that one.

You also have to realize that not all physicians are knowledgable about lab tests, especially if they don't have experience in dealing with a certain illness. A specialist who deals with a lot of HIV is much more likely to be knowledgable about those things rather than say, a family doctor.

I probably missed it--this thread has grown since I last looked at it! The last time I read you were going in for a 6 week and 3 month, right? Have you gotten your next batch of labs yet? I am really hoping that you will be a false positive and they will find out you have an autoimmune disease or a virus that cross reacts. Whatever it is, we're here for you.

Yes C88 I just went for the second set of tests yesterday my DR. said he would put a rush on them. I did look up Autoimmune Disease on the web when Ann mentioned it and they seem very complicated I'm not sure I'm looking up the right stuff but it says it causes body and bone and heart deformation sounds pretty serious? Can you get this disease at any time in your life or is it something your born with?

There are tons of autoimmune diseases--lupus, scleroderma, rheumatoid arthritis, and so much more. They cause a variety of things depending on the condition. It isn't something you are born with, but get later on in your life at any time. To really follow up in that area, it would more be in the field of a specialist--rheumatologist or immunologist would be the most knowledgable ones about it. Many autoimmune diseases are often missed and people often suffer for years before they finally get a diagnosis. They can be tricky for diagnosis--for example, lupus isn't always reliably diagnosed in the lab--there is no test that 100% says you have lupus. The ANA, anti-smith antibodies are two tests that can strongly point to lupus if they are positive, but even if negative, that patient can be an unlucky person who isn't one of the people who is positive or it can be a whole new autoimmune disease. They often go by symptoms and other things. They are a very tricky thing. You can ask your doctor about the possibility, but there is a good chance he may not have much expertise in that area.

Rapid do you know of a web site that has a list of viruses that could cause false positive HIV antigene and EIA?

One place to start with that is the lab. You could find out the manufacturer from them and then contact the manufacturer. Or maybe someone in the lab may be nice enough to do it for you--they should have a copy handy in the lab, it may be in an online manual, it really depends if they are willing--it can get very busy in a lab, so they may not be able to find it right then, but there is no reason you can't get the information yourself. Anyhow, those who manufacture the supplies (supplies differ for manual vs automated assays) always do studies on cross reactivitiy, false positives, etc. There are many things that can cause false positives, so that would be one place to look.

411

Rapid made in important comment about your testing in referring to the Western Blot. ELISA testing is designed to balance both sensitivity and specificity whereas the Western Blot is designed to identify specific proteins evidencing infection. Two reactive tests with an ELISA and a reactive test with the Western Blot or another confirmatory test are required before someone is diagnosed HIV positive.

The Western Blot is considered very specific and usually returns a reactive result if the initial ELISA is reactive. In your case your timeline is simply too tight to your last unprotected encounter to offer any real predictive value except to say that your non reactive Western Blot is encouraging. In fact, any negative test related to potential infection is encouraging.

I've viewed your thread and haven't offered any input simply because you've already received very good information. While an insertive partner is at less risk than the receptive partner infections to the insertive partner still happen and with your timeline for testing and current results the ability to predict your outcome is challenging.

However, I'm encouraged by the initial non reactive Western Blot and my advice would be to try and refrain from searching out other causes for the reactive ELISA. As tempting as that may be you would be better served by waiting out the results of this latest test instead of baraging the testing centre with a lot of questions about autoimmune deficiencies, etc. As an incidental, for reasons unknown, approximately 18% of the general population will test reactive for the antigen (P24) that you refer to in your initial test and remain HIV negative.

Your next results will be very telling and another negative will be extremely predicitve.Best wishes

Thank you guys so much again for responding I have to say 411 your reply was very encouraging. I for some reason was under the impression that the EIA test was the test that detected it early. Thank you as well Rapid for clarifying that.

411

I for some reason was under the impression that the EIA test was the test that detected it early

The ELISA test is the first test performed because it possesses both extreme sensitivity and specificity whereas the confirmatory test is very specific and looks for actual proteins developed as a result of infection. Its generally accepted that when an ELISA returns a reactive result very early (2 weeks or so) post infection the confirmatory test is at least indeterminate; yours was reported as non reactive. Your PCP would have informed you of the indeterminate result if it were present. Present testing technology is extremely accurate and becomes highly predictive after approximately 4 weeks and onward towards that eventual 3 month conclusive test.

As coffee has already pointed out, while rare, other issues can result in a reactive ELISA and that's why the confirmatory test is required. For example, its not uncommon for women with a high gravidity (more than one pregnancy) number to test positive on the prenatal HIV test yet test negative on the confirmatory test.

I'm just saying that at this point no one can stick a fork in you and that your confirmatory results do offer some encouragement. Hold tight for the next short while and realize that a number of people are silently pulling for you.

Once again my best advice is to try to resist the allure of determining the rates of false positives for the ELISA; physiology is far more complex than assigning a value and saying that X number of people will falsely test positive for X number of reasons......., you get my point?

Hang onto the fact that at this time you are still negative and if the next series of tests returns another negative you'll have lots of predictive advice to mull over. If it doesn't, well it just means that advice of a different kind will be offered but you'll certainly go on living.

Some of your questions like why the doctor ordered this or that are ones you ought to address with your doctor. That way you can clarify HIS thinking rather than having you and us speculate about it.

I know it's difficult getting through this waiting period, but getting caught up in trying to tie down every possible detail is not in my experience either informative or otherwise helpful. As Ann suggested, stay productively busy while waiting for the next result and the time will pass more quickly than you may imagine at this moment.

I was curious if the symptoms i told you i was suffering in the begging of my thread where actually caused from HIV. awhile ago I had some tests for red spots on my groin area and at that time after tests where done I had been told I had Herpies 1 and I only had the one out break and the STD nurse told me in alot of cases people never get an outbreak again which I have not. That was also my last Negative HIV test in September.So my question is if I did contract HIV is it likely that I would have had an outbreak when or even alittle while after the symptoms came on? (The present symptoms)or stuff like getting a cold after those symptoms would they be much more sever?

I have alot of skin condition I get ring worms, hand foot, staph, psoriasis in my ears (for over a year) My Dr when I saw him for what we originally thought was Scarlett Fever gave me an diffrent ointment I have used several others in the past and since the sickness it has not returned. So stuff like that would they have actually worsen? I was on Tetracycline an antibiotic for several years used for acne (not the birth control) and I stayed on them for over 10 years I no longer take them as my skin is great but since stopping I seem to catch alot of skin infections. and since then I seem to catch alot of skin infections.

So the question is would conditions like Herpies 1 and other skin infections worsen "if" the symptoms I had where in fact HIV related? And you guys have been very persistent that those symptoms could be anything...but I need to know that if they where

« Last Edit: January 18, 2007, 03:19:53 PM by HIV? poz about being neg »

You can have those outbreaks at anytime. HIV will not specifically cause an HSV1 outbreak. More importantly having an HSV1 outbreak is NOT an indicator in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM of an HIV presence in the body.

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LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

I was just under the impression that a person who was truly going through seroconversion that their immune system would be weakening and that would cause things like herpies or other skin infections to worsen. As I have said my skin problems have actually gotten better like the psoriasis.

So this is not a concern. I'm mostly just informing myself.

« Last Edit: January 18, 2007, 04:49:01 PM by HIV? poz about being neg »

411

I understand why you are doing the whole questioning thing, its a form of internal warfare at trying to explain away these testing results with other possibilities. I would wager money that you've put yourself into a holding pattern with everything that used to bring you enjoyment and that the time waiting for these next results is simply dead time waiting to be burnt off. I'd also bet that you'd simply like to sleep away the whole period waiting for your next appointment.

Unfortunately that isn't possible and this mental anguish stuff isn't helping you either. I think it was Ann who suggested quite early on to try and keep up with the day to day stuff and sooner than you think the time will be gone. Its really great advice because nothing, and I really mean nothing, you do will change your results, they are what they will be.

I did read that you are in Canada and while I don't know which Province you are in, and it doesn't really matter, but from what you write I suspect a Provincial Lab will be processing your bloods and if the doctor requested a PCR it will be the quantitative PCR which is the RNA PCR. Moreover, the request for a Western Blot isn't needed because if the ELISA is reactive a reflex test will be processed automatically from the original blood draw. In requesting the test the form you were given would have the checkbox for EIA with reflex test marked off, meaning if the ELISA is reactive, perform a Western Blot. If your ELSIA is non reactive this time don't be too dismayed if a Western Blot or PRC is not performed as these tests are superfluous and not normally processed if the ELISA is non reactive.

I understand these are personally trying times but the only real answer to this dilemma is currently in the works and the results that they give will direct the next steps you need to take. In the meantime, read and reread everything that has been written in your thread, that may help you over the humps.Crossed fingers and eyes help to or so I've been told.

As to your last question, prior illnesses would not normally resurface during seroconversion illness. Its easy to confuse seroconversion, which begins almost immediately after the time of infection forward to the point of detectable antibodies, with seroconversion illness which is the body's acute response to HIV infection which is generally just before the point of detectable antibodies.

411 its true I read my thread over and over looking for everything kinda like trying to solve a puzzle. I wake up look at my thread go to work waiting for the Dr's call. Come home and go over the thread again and again. Search the internet for anything that's going to tell me I'm negative. I know I've gone crazy. Its my blood. And I'm not sure I want to know anymore. Do you know what I mean? I close my eyes and I see blood cells, from studying diagrams and pictures on web sites. Go outside take a walk, try to do anything to keep my mind from it. And I just want to run home to get more information. Talking to friends has been awkward because I'm just not myself scared I'll break down and tell them. My bed time reading is printed pages from the internet about HIV. One thing's for sure I know a heck of alot more about HIV.I think there are people in this world who are strong and responsible enough to deal with HIV, but I'm not one of them there's just so much stuff it's crazy. DR appointments blood tests life style changes medications tests tests tests. It's overwhelming all of this. And then this weather it feels like it hasn't stopped raining in months.Well I am sure I'm gonna get a call tomorrow. And then I can finally just put this puzzle away. and either I come on here with some really great news or I start a new thread under I just tested Poz. I have high hopes and my heart is telling me I got a second chance and I've really got to be a smarter healthier person.

411

Book an appointment on Monday and if the results aren't in with your doctor at least discuss your anxiety. It would be time well spent. It also takes about a week or so to have bloods processed in your area.

I got the tests on Monday its now Friday. I did call the Dr. and he said nothing was back yet where guessing Monday. As for the anxiety I'm just going to work double shifts all weekend and keep myself busy.

411

PEP is HIV medication that is prescribed as a means of preventing HIV infection and needs to be taken within a maximum 72 hours post exposure. In the medical community it is believed that PEP is effective at preventing infection in greater than 80% of potentially infected persons who've experienced a truly high risk exposure but the sooner it is initiated, within 72 hours, the more effective its considered.

wow it has been one week now since my last test called the DR. and still nothing has come back. My over all health seems to be OK the night sweats are very minor now. I had abit of a cough and runny nose for a couple days but considering this time of year I imagine its normal. I think in general I've kinda started getting my emotions under control. Still nervous and my heart pumps pretty hard when I call the Dr. my work and stuff is keeping me busy.

Still no results. Went to the Dr's office he was really nice even called the lab while I was there. They said it could be another week as some of the tests I had done take awhile longer. Still staying busy in the mean time, working alot. The DR did some checks to see if I had swollen lymphnodes said i didn't.I feel alot more comfortable as he also mentioned he works with alot of HIV+ patients, even had a patient that was tested positive three years ago, and after seeing my DR it was discovered he was actually negative.I'm still extremely freaked out about the positive antigen and EIA results as the more I read and hear the EIA is a pretty accurate test and not alot of things can mess that up. I really wish I could have found a reason for my symptoms I had or a name anything. I have been reading the "I just tested Poz" threads and some of those peoples symptoms sound similar. I have also been talking to a really nice nurse from the STD clinic every couple of days and he like you guys feels pretty good about the negative WB. But also says the initial testing was abit to soon. Any ways I'm still here praying.

« Last Edit: January 24, 2007, 03:00:34 AM by HIV? poz about being neg »

Well The tests have arrived and as I feared the Western Blot is reactive. Today I have been told I am infact HIV positive. January 24th.The HIV RNA reads value 1: >100000 not sure what that means.My DR has set me up with abunch of tests to go do hgb,WBC,plts,hcv,rbs,alt,ast,alk pho,helper cell study,creatmine, urinalysis, HAV, and Hep b. I have no idea.

I'm just numb. I think I'm gonna need some help here.

« Last Edit: January 25, 2007, 12:13:31 AM by HIV? poz about being neg »

411

Damn, I was checking your thread every day and really hoping this would work out differently for you and I know getting these results feels like you've been drop kicked in the gut. I wish I could offer some consolation but I think the best advice I could offer right now is for you to know that everyone understands the range of emotions you are currently experiencing, especially that feeling of being overwhelmed, and that there is lots of help available as this news starts to settle in.

I will also tell you that I really believe that you have a great doctor who seems very in-tune with HIV management. He's doing all the right tests to get a very good understanding of your current health picture. I can't see a single test that's been overlooked; he's checking a number of things including your liver and doing a resistance test, having a good doctor that you can trust can't be understated.

The HIV RNA comment means the test limit is 100,000 copies and your results returned a value higher than the limit which is common for a recent infection. That will go down below the ceiling value as your immune system finds its balance.

This really sucks and for what its worth I've been very impressed with how you've conducted yourself here in the forums over these last few days and I believe that as time moves on you're old self will slowly reemerge and that you are going to manage very well.

I am so sorry. I was really hoping you wouldn't be one of the ones that have the Western Blot turn reactive after testing later, that you would end up being a false positive--I checked the thread everyday hoping to find another post stating that effect. We are all here for you--we have all been where you are now.

I too have been checking your thread often. While this is initially extremely tough news to deal with. It gets easier. You are not alone in this and many of us have flourished in spite of it. Come on over to Living With as Andy said, you will find all the support you can dream of.

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LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!