On multiple levels, Tuesday’s election results raised questions about the Christian right’s agenda on American politics, eight years after the movement helped sweep President George W. Bush into a second term and opened the era of state bans on same-sex marriage.

“For the first time tonight, same-sex marriage has been passed by popular vote in Maine and Maryland,” said Robert P. Jones, a Washington-based pollster who specializes in questions about politics and religion.

“The historic nature of these results are hard to overstate,” Jones said. “Given the strong support of younger Americans for same-sex marriage, it is unlikely this issue will reappear as a major national wedge issue.”

Some conservative evangelical leaders echoed that line. Albert Mohler, who heads the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, said on Twitter that votes for same-sex marriage suggested that “we are witnessing a fundamental moral realignment of the country.”

A Tuesday ballot measure to legalize same-sex marriage in Washington state is still pending. In Minnesota, voters rejected a Tuesday measure that would have banned same-sex marriage there.

Obama’s victory also raised questions about the Christian right's influence in the electorate.

Though evangelical leaders as diverse as the Southern Baptist Convention’s Richard Land and Christian icon Billy Graham voiced support for Mitt Romney (Graham stopped short of an official endorsement), Obama performed better among white evangelicals than he did in 2008 in some states.

Before the election, many evangelical leaders predicted that opposition to Obama over his support for abortion rights, his personal endorsement of same-sex marriage and his vision of government as a force for good would trump reservations evangelicals had about Romney’s past social liberalism and his Mormon faith.

“There is no evidence in voting patterns that President Obama's 'evolution' on same-sex marriage cost him anything,” Mohler said in another tweet Tuesday night.

Obama also narrowly won Catholics, even after the U.S. Catholic bishops waged a rigorous campaign against the Obama administration around the issue of religious liberty. The bishops alleged Obama was forcing Catholics to violate their own teachings by making health insurance companies provide free contraception coverage for virtually all employees.

John Green, a religion and politics expert at the University of Akron, said Obama’s win among Catholics was partly a testament to the growing Latino demographic.

“Maybe Hispanic Catholics were not as moved by religious liberty-type arguments as by immigration and economics,” he said.

Unlike in 2004, when John Kerry – a former altar boy – lost Catholic voters, the Obama campaign had a robust religious outreach program aimed largely at Catholic and evangelical voters. The effort included videos from Obama and Vice President Joe Biden, a Catholic, talking about their Christian faith.

Obama's success among some religious demographics also illustrated how economic issues, as opposed to culture war concerns, dominated the election cycle.

The defeat Tuesday of two Republican Senate candidates who made national headlines with anti-abortion remarks also raised questions about the Christian right’s power.

In Missouri, U.S. Senate candidate Todd Akin, who in August walked back his remark that "if it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down," lost his bid to unseat Sen. Claire McCaskill, a Democrat.

In Indiana, Republican Senate candidate Richard Mourdock lost his race against Democrat Joe Donnelly after saying last month that pregnancies resulting from rape are “something that God intended to happen.”

Conservative Christians did claim some victories Tuesday night, including helping the GOP retain control of the U.S. House of Representatives and helping elect tea party favorite Ted Cruz as a U.S. senator from Texas.

Ralph Reed, the leader of conservative group the Faith & Freedom Coalition, planned a Wednesday morning press conference to release his data about what he called the enduring influence of “values voters.”

“Preliminary evidence is they turned out and they voted heavily for Romney,” Reed said in an e-mail message Tuesday night.

soundoff(4,434 Responses)

Answered his own question that there are no intelligent people on the internet?

November 7, 2012 at 10:59 am |

linda

Have you read the remarks made by Trump ? That we need to start a revolution because Obama won......this is why the republicans lost......catering to the extreme far right, extreme religiious, extreme Tea Baggers......the tea partty members in the house will continue to create more problems for the GOP untill they show they are going to work with this President instead of against him......Boenher better get a grip on his House or he will find himself out of a job....and the GOP better distance themselves from this NUT CASE TRUMP.....

November 7, 2012 at 10:48 am |

sarah

I think more and more people are wising up to idiots like Trump, Coulter, & Limbag. I just wish news agencies would ignore them as much as I believe most people would like them to be ignored.

November 7, 2012 at 10:57 am |

Doc Vestibule

Thank (INSERT DEITY) that the age of the Reaganaut/Moral Majority is finally over.

November 7, 2012 at 10:47 am |

gary winnipeg

to "via2" how can intelligent people ever believe such nonsense

November 7, 2012 at 10:46 am |

Winston5

After 2,000 years, yah, they can kinda shuddup now, yes?

November 7, 2012 at 10:45 am |

Bobby G

We can only hope. The christian right in this country emphasizes all that is terrible about their religion and ignores the only good thing about christianity, helping the less fortunate. Most of the ugly conspiracies pointed at the president have either started or have the full backing of the religious right and it is pathetic. These people truly live 50 years behind us and always have and last night gave hope to us without religion that the fear mongering is no longer working. The younger generation have not fallen for the b.s. and can think independently and the internet is very responsible for that. A free exchange of ideas is always healthy and anyone that fights against that exchange has already show their weakness that their beliefs cannot stand to be questioned or examined. Every threat that is cast about finding out the truth after we've died only makes us that much more solidified that the choices we make are the right ones, life is to be lived in the hear and now, not squandered on the hopes of reward after death. The more people that realize this, the better this country will be. If you've never questioned your beliefs seriously, if you only accept the beliefs of your parents as right without examining the other possibilities, if you cannot articulate why you think one way as apposed to another, you've never thought independently and you maybe never will. Ignorance is no longer bliss, it is to be abhorred and shunned and pointed out and ridiculed. The country is waking up and I'm glad I can watch it unfold to the dismay of the worst of us who would hold us back in life for a promise of the unexplained in death. Feels good man.

November 7, 2012 at 10:45 am |

NotStupid

The catholic church has been a powerful influence in the world for centruies, all to the detrement of the human race. The biggest travesty is the blatent refusal to accept scientific facts as facts. We are the only country with so many people that actually believe the world is only 6,000 years old and these people control the GOP. Last night, the GOP reaction to getting their butt kicked was that thet were not conservative enough! How out of touch with reality can you be?

November 7, 2012 at 10:44 am |

JFCanton

Maybe you're not entirely smart either. Where does the Catholic Church not accept science?

Agree that the analysis by some conservatives that they didn't have a sufficiently conservative candidate is brainless, though.

The 'right' could begin to move *even farther* to the right, if that's even possible.

It's frightening to say the least.

Peace...

November 7, 2012 at 10:48 am |

yared

You means scientic facts, like we come from Primates and the earth id billions os years old.. just because people call thereb0 selves educatied scientist dont mean they produce facts..half the things we acceptbas facts will be disproven 100 years from now.

November 7, 2012 at 11:02 am |

Al Russell

Absolutely! Now watch as the GOP machine places all the blame for the lost election on Romney alone. They still refuse to admit that the real reason for their failure last night is that the majority of the country does NOT want to travel down the far right road. The sad truth is that Romney might have pulled this one off if he hadn't been forced to move so far right in order to grasp the Republican Nomination. The problem is not that he was not conservative enough. The problem is that he made himself too conservative for the mainstream in order to appease his party. Will they learn from this and move back toward the middle? We'll have to wait and see.

November 7, 2012 at 11:12 am |

Which God?

Yared. You are a perfect example of the uneducated. I can't type, but I can proof read, and I can spell. Your ignorance is showing.

November 7, 2012 at 11:39 am |

Primewonk

" Where does the Catholic Church not accept science?"

Um, My version of a make bel;ieve magical skydaddy wants me to think gay folks are icky. So I have to do whatever it takes to make sure they don't get the same rights as me.

November 7, 2012 at 11:44 am |

Kathleen

Good riddance to the toxic backwater scourge called the Christian right. If the Republican party is stupid enough to give a voice to their ignorance and bigotry, I'm happy to see the Republican brand ruined for the next generation.

November 7, 2012 at 10:43 am |

MCR

I know an 80 year old man who cast his first democratic votes this election, because inhis words"They've let the religious nuts take over." In a two party system the votes will always balance out around the 50/50 mark, but I'd say Dems will be above the line until the Republican's learn the world has changed.

November 7, 2012 at 10:47 am |

Little Jeffy

Kathleen
"Good riddance to the toxic backwater scourge called the Christian right. If the Republican party is stupid enough to give a voice to their ignorance and bigotry, I'm happy to see the Republican brand ruined for the next generation."

Clearly words from a true expert on tolerance...

November 7, 2012 at 10:49 am |

MCR

@LJ, Kathleen's statement didn't claim to be tolerant, only to be less bigoted and ignorant. Tolerance is putting up withthings of whichyou don't approve. That could include "tolerating" slavers or the people selling drugs to your 12 year old. Openness, is a different concept. I means learning about others and, when they aren't causing harm, accepting them and their diversity. Openness cannot be a one way street...If someone rejects you and does harm to you (as the fundamentalists Christian right do to so many) their harmful behavior should not be tolerated any more than that of a common criminal.

November 7, 2012 at 11:11 am |

truth be told

Given the choices most Christians were unable to vote. A cultist from an anti – Christ faith or an advocate for infanticide and abomination.

November 7, 2012 at 10:42 am |

William Demuth

Yup. Shame since the don't have good Christian candidates like the old days.

Yes, great !!! Please keep up the ridiculous world-view that you and other like-minded so-called "Christians" share.

2016 will be in the bag to for the Democratic party too with your myopic thinking.

Peace...

November 7, 2012 at 10:46 am |

David in FL

get over your hatred yesterday.. you are wrong

November 7, 2012 at 10:48 am |

Jim M

The Arian brotherhood will still be there to support them!

November 7, 2012 at 10:48 am |

Stefanie

Ummmm WHAT?!

November 7, 2012 at 10:48 am |

Bob Dolcimer

in the end, i cast my vote for the 'best of the worst". given the abysmal quality of both candidates i still exercised my right. my question - polling said that more americans wanted change than the 2008 election. ??? that my friend is the logic of politics and the ignorance of the american people. but then again the logic of politics and the voting habits of the uninformed and uneducated are illogical.

November 7, 2012 at 10:50 am |

KatProds

"In my world, you don’t get to call yourself “pro-life” and be against common-sense gun control — like banning public access to the kind of semiautomatic assault rifle, designed for warfare, that was used recently in a Colorado theater. You don’t get to call yourself “pro-life” and want to shut down the Environmental Protection Agency, which ensures clean air and clean water, prevents childhood asthma, preserves biodiversity and combats climate change that could disrupt every life on the planet. You don’t get to call yourself “pro-life” and oppose programs like Head Start that provide basic education, health and nutrition for the most disadvantaged children. You can call yourself a “pro-conception-to-birth, indifferent-to-life conservative.” I will never refer to someone who pickets Planned Parenthood but lobbies against common-sense gun laws as “pro-life.” Thomas Friedman

November 7, 2012 at 10:51 am |

Scout

Shut up.

November 7, 2012 at 10:58 am |

2uim

Well spoken.

November 7, 2012 at 11:14 am |

Gordon

Go ahead, next election get someone like Pat Robertson as your nominee. If we had a choice of Obama and someone that believes that God sends hurricanes and earthquakes because we don't force all kids to study the bible in school and we allow gay people to actually have rights, how can America NOT vote for Pat Robertson?!

November 7, 2012 at 3:19 pm |

GatorDude

Yes. The country is becoming less religious and more diverse. The moral edicts of religion are best promoted at the family and community level not through legislative mandate. If the Republicans want to win again, they need to step away from religious fundamentalism and move towards a platform that is pro-freedom, pro-personal choice, fiscally conservative, nationalist, and pro-economic development. If a candidate goes to church at all, it should be on his own time and for his own personal spiritual development.

November 7, 2012 at 10:41 am |

Penney

Well said Gatordude

November 7, 2012 at 10:53 am |

Bob Dolcimer

not so. i think in 2016 there will a secession of the union and i will cast my vote for charlie daniels. by then (only a short 4 years from now), the union, as we know it, will be so decimated under the obama administration that extremism will be the only avenue for freedom. south's gonna do it again! raise the rebel flags my firend. heritage not hate. so take your watered down perspective on life and move on. relativism sucks.

November 7, 2012 at 10:54 am |

Chris

Agree wholeheartedly! I will never vote for a candidate who uses his religion and personal beliefs in their political office to then enforct it onto others. Religion should be kept at home and community where it belongs. This country is made up of people from many different backgrounds and religions. To have a President that is staunch in his personal religions beliefs to the point of attempting to sway legistlature to enforce those beliefs/behaviors on others who may not share those religions views is NOT freedom and not what America is about.

November 7, 2012 at 11:13 am |

Sly

Bob ... what if the South seceeds again and the rest of our great Nation applauds, and let's them go?

We'll see how far the South get's raising peanuts in Georgia.

Sorry dude, but your hero Dale Earnhart died, and you ain't got no other leaders.

(Besides, we all know the African Americans in the South alone would kick all the red-necks butts. Red necks are not very intelligent people, and it would be rather enjoyable to whup them again, just like the good ol days).

November 7, 2012 at 11:15 am |

Primewonk

@ Bob – cool. I recommend building a wall from North Carolina over to Utah. We'll even pay to relocate the fundiot nutters living in the Dakota's, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, etc.

Remember – all your southern redneck states are net consumers of federal taxes – for every dollar they pay in taxes, they get a buttload more back in aid. So once we seal you off, no more sucking at the teat of us blue staters.

Hell, I even have a name picked out for your new country – Wecome to Dumbfuckistan!

November 7, 2012 at 11:53 am |

UncleBenny

"America has decided it no longer needs or wants the Living God who created the Heaven and the Earth and blessed this nation with it's independance."

No, it doesn't, because he didn't. Time to outgrow Big Sky Daddy and get on with things.

All one had to do was to observe the crowds both in Chicago and Boston last night. It couldn't have been any clearer that Obama brings diversity and tolerance to the table. The crowd looked alive because they are "real people" that breath, they have lives and hopes, they're young.

On the other hand there was the Boston crowd, pathetic to say the least. I looked very, very hard to see diversity and honestly I couldn't. It was a crowd of white people, fat middle-aged ladies with their crinkly old husbands in white shirts and ties, I even observed a young man with a bow tie on. The dynamic seemed so old fashioned, so out of touch. Of course this was exacerbated by the losing tone but the reality was clear, the Republican Party is taking some final breaths with an extremely poor prognosis. The GOP has a new meaning, God Obviously Pollutes.

During his acceptance speech the POTUS clearly summarized America and what it really is, diverse and I don't believe he let anyone out of the equation, this is something you could bet on that the GOP would ever do, ever.

Time for them to take that last breath and send a warning to their far right fringe that we as Americans are not going to sit idly by and allow inhumanity to be acted upon. It's over.

Amazing in the diverse state of Massachusetts, first to allow gay marriage, has a black governor, and a very progressive house and senate. Romney was way out of touch with his own state, should held his party in right wing back water Texas,
a state moving backwards not forwards.

November 7, 2012 at 10:45 am |

Stefanie

Thank you for a very well written summary!

November 7, 2012 at 10:51 am |

Chris

Agreed....very well stated!

November 7, 2012 at 11:16 am |

MCR

Be careful not to veer into the realm of agism. I don't like what Romney stands for any more than you do, but to imply that middle aged people are less alive or wothy than the young is a dangerous road to take.

November 7, 2012 at 11:19 am |

Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

Prayer changes things.

November 7, 2012 at 10:40 am |

UncleBenny

Good. I'm praying that you go away and stop your silly posts.

November 7, 2012 at 10:41 am |

William Demuth

Yup, your prayers for Obama really turned the tide

Great Work!!

Oh by the way, Allah called, said Osama is up to virgin #53, so get greased up, cause your next! (Don't forget the hamsters)

Enjoy!

November 7, 2012 at 10:43 am |

Which God?

Didn't work too good for mittens did it, azzhole.?

November 7, 2012 at 10:44 am |

Kathleen

Praying to your god is just as effective as praying to a frying pan or a tube sock. It has no effect whatsoever.

Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!

November 7, 2012 at 10:46 am |

OldSchool

Actually, prayer has been scientifically PROVEN to be ineffective:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3193902.stm

Of course I know reason and logic are entirely lost on irrational zealots like yourself, but other people who aren't quite so deluded should read this sort of thing...

November 7, 2012 at 10:52 am |

Joe

Oh yeah, as the country heads towards a debt we can not recover from, crime and drug use escalation, failing education system, increasing unemployment rate, lets solve all these problems ourselves.

As a Christian, I will pray for you. As God has this all under control.

No mention of the US in the book of Revelation, think about it...........

Personally, I would be very happy if the religious right loses its grip on U.S. politics and government. I believe you can be a moral and ethical person without being religious. Very few of the "religious" political leaders have been all that moral and ethical. Jimmy Carter is an exception, and look at what happened to him. Ridiculed for years. But he still shows how a Christian should actually behave.

November 7, 2012 at 10:40 am |

Diana

I am with you Peggy...have always said..Jimmy Carter was a man too good for the job.

November 8, 2012 at 8:31 am |

Pels

I am not a fan of President Obama but he got my vote because I am more of a fan of those who support him then I am of those who support Romney. If the Christian Right loses influence the two sides will be able to work more closely together and perhaps we will finally make progress in outting this country back on the right path.

November 7, 2012 at 10:40 am |

rshanks66

Good point. The 2 sides need to work together, pronto! The GOP drawing lines in the sand, saying “NO!” and pledging “no new taxes” is not working

November 7, 2012 at 10:49 am |

Damich

Wow... THE VOICE OF REASON WAS HEARD!!!!! The 'Christians' of today are mean spirited; bigoted and greedy... ironically it's just what the good book said they would be in this day and time. The tides of change have washed across our shores to usher in TRUE freedoms that religion can no longer keep in the closet. Hope is restored now. AMEN

November 7, 2012 at 10:39 am |

Jim M

These so-called members of the Christian right are not true Christians at all, they are actually Christian wrongs.
They are NOT tolerant to diversity, their values are more inline with members of the Arian Nation then the mainstream American people, and the bulk of those that preach to them are closet child molesters that thrive in the fertile ground of their congregations.

November 7, 2012 at 10:39 am |

Marshall Hagy

One of the fundamentals of our country is the SEPARATION of church and state, and only when the Republican party realizes this will they have a chance to regain power. A fiscal conservative and socially moderate Republican party, not one that caves in to the voices of unreason from the religious right, is the the only viable one for the future.

Marshall Hagy
Chicago

November 7, 2012 at 10:37 am |

Steve

The religious right still has a stranglehold over several key areas. However, whether they want to accept it or not, they are no longer part of the mainstream.

I am a Christian, but the religious right represents a backwards, unenlightened mentality that does not understand government, science, or even compassion. You see, instead of working on the problems that really plague us – poverty, hunger, families' homes being foreclosed – the religious right focused on abortion and gay marriage. Abortion is too complicated an issue to take an absolutist position on, and the majority of Americans now support gay marriage or at least don't see any reasonable point in banning it.

In forty years, we'll look back at the religious right and shake our heads in disbelief. The only differences between certain evangelicals and extremist Islamic clerics are which Holy Book they use and how many guns you're likely to find at one of their services.

November 7, 2012 at 10:37 am |

jane

Steve – Wow I want to thank you for your thoughtful post! I am personally heartened to read it. I hope for a world where spiritual beliefs do not dictate civil rights and social justice. I don't believe Jesus himself would like what has happened to much of Christianity – I think he would support programs that help the weak, poor and disenfranchised. And I'm pretty sure he would have some unpleasant things to say to Wall Street...

November 7, 2012 at 10:48 am |

Which God?

Hi Jane. We all have some unpleasant things to say to wlly street. Especially to speculators. and junk bond dealers.

November 7, 2012 at 10:51 am |

via2

No nightmare for me at all. Totally expected. For the Word of God spoke of these days thousand of years ago. America has decided it no longer needs or wants the Living God who created the Heaven and the Earth and blessed this nation with it's independance. All things coming to pass just as the Hebrew Prophets spoke. This nation has turned it's back on God and on Israel. And God will turn his face away from this nation and lift his Glory from it. And just as the Bible has said, you won't be able to crawl under the rocks deep enough to escape what is to come and what will be.

November 7, 2012 at 10:37 am |

tallulah13

This nation 'turned from god' over 200 years ago when it was deliberately created as a secular government. Despite the best efforts of religious fanatics such as yourself, it appears that honesty and reason still hold the edge. Your brand of theocracy, while thriving in countries like Iran, has not yet infected the United States, and one can only hope that it never will.

November 7, 2012 at 10:43 am |

gary winnipeg

how can intelligent people ever believe such nonsense.

November 7, 2012 at 10:43 am |

Primewonk

Weird.

Because yesterday at this time many of you ignorant fundiot nutters were still claiming that god wanted Romney to win, and he would crush Obama.

I guess that your god was either wrong, or lying.

November 7, 2012 at 10:43 am |

WordUpToo

Just aren't going to let it go, are you? That's okay, I'm sure the dinosaurs put up a little bit of a fight too when they were being wiped out.

Time moves on....evolve or become extinct.

November 7, 2012 at 10:45 am |

Patrick

This rhetoric has no place in America. I fear no god or words spoken thousands of years ago. Those words have no place in the world today. We have progressed beyond this ancient way of thinking. I suggest you progress and live your one and only life.

November 7, 2012 at 10:48 am |

Susan Muhlbauer

via2,
Please reread what you have written. The rest of us are not evil or immoral. You were not elected or appointed abritrator of values and morality.I believe one of your leader's firm admonishments was "Judge not least you be judged".

November 7, 2012 at 10:48 am |

Which God?

Haw hee haw. You azz is braying again, via2 cells.

November 7, 2012 at 10:49 am |

Bill

No, via2, the country has not turned its back on God. I heard a recent piece on NPR that suggests that we are the most religious of the Western countries. The GOVERNMENT, however, never was and never should have any religious orientation at all. Freedom of religiion also implies freedom FROM religion. If I were Muslim, Buddhist, or any other religion, would YOU like MY group telling YOU what you should do? Doubtful. I'm happy to be a Christian and practice my belief without somebody telling me I how I need to be this way or that because that's their belief.

November 7, 2012 at 10:53 am |

james walls

You are what I would call,a delusional denialist. Not a good combination! Religion, is without a doubt, the biggest con job ever perpetrated in the history of man.Enjoy your wasted life.

November 7, 2012 at 11:00 am |

America Lost

I agree with OneWay. Well said. Don't put your faith in politics or even other people. We are all guilty hypocrites. Those that have chosen to put there faith in Christ are then free. You need to pray that the scales of your sinful misunderstanding about Christ teachings be lifted from your eyes. See Truth, not enlightenment or other worldly definitions.

11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.”[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:
King of kings and Lord of lords.

November 7, 2012 at 11:05 am |

v_mag

The classic mistake of Bible-thumpers is to believe that words written 2000 years ago were meant to describe today. A case in point is the book of Revelation, which historians believe was referring the the Roman empire. 666 refers to Nero, as it is a numerological representation of his name.

November 7, 2012 at 11:31 am |

v_mag

It always amuses me when people claim to have read the Bible. I ask them, "Where did you learn ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek?" They seem to think that a translation of the Bible written over a thousand years after the fact, and hundreds of years before today, somehow accurately transmits the original message. We have almost no concept of the culture and day-to-day lives of those ancient people, so how could we take what they said and apply it to the 21st century?

As an example, look at the word 'gay'. Today it means something totally different than it did only 50 years ago. How many meanings have changed in how many words in 2000 years? How would an idiomatic expression in ancient Aramaic be understood by a 21st century American? The answer is, it depends on which preacher is interpreting it. That is how the Bible has been distorted to support every side of every issue for 2000 years. That is why there are so many Christian sects. The meaning of the Bible is whatever one group wants it to be, and each group is 100% certain that they are right.

November 7, 2012 at 11:45 am |

America Lost

Thanks Vmag for the insight. I like how you say classic mistake. I don't agree with historians on that take anyway. I draw my conclusions on a complete study of the bible and cross references back to Daniel and many other books within the Bible. Unfortunalty, yours and so many others mistake, is believeing the lie that satan has snarred you with in believeing and that is, according to your own words, that the Bible is 2000 years old and doesn't apply all these years later. That somehow we humans are smarter than that. The same sins that God frowned upon 2000 yrs ago are the same sins we as humans commit today. No difference. What will bring about final judgement is the day that we as humans set ourselves up as God and somehow think we don;t need Him anymore. After reading many of these post, I can honestly say it is right around the corner.

November 7, 2012 at 11:46 am |

v_mag

America Lost, you are welcome to your beliefs and opinions, and you express them well. I was raised in a fundamentalist household, and it worked out fine for my parents. They believed the Bible literally, and they had a good life. They were great parents, and they followed the best teachings of the New Testament.

However, you don't have to dig very far into the Bible in order to find really disturbing things. Things that are unexplainable in terms of traditional Christian values like 'love thy neighbor'. On this thread, people have referred to sins, harkening back to the 10 Commandments. But in Deuteronomy, there are lots of other commandments, like not eating pork or shellfish. There is a prohibition against wearing 2 kinds of cloth (e.g., wool and cotton) at the same time. These things were defined as sinful, in terms of disobeying God's laws. How can a modern person take that stuff seriously?

As for the "Satan wants you to believe the Bible is bunk" line, that has always been a great one for keeping people trapped in ignorance. In fact, it is based on nothing but dogma. If one frees oneself from dogma, he is truly free. He can use his mind to question, investigate, and become fully human. He can even decide that there is a God, and that God wants him to be free and use his brain.

November 7, 2012 at 12:06 pm |

America Lost

Vmag, after reading your post, it reminded me of the last scene of Star Trek the motion picture when commander Dekker achieves full "freedom" on another concious level. Are you saying you don't believe in Satan or Evil?

As far as old testament teachings, they had their place in Gods great plan and I see where people get caught in the dogma of that. But in the New Testament, Christ is direct:

Matthew 22:36-40
New International Version (NIV)

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

James 1:27
New International Version (NIV)

27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

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