Tor wrote:So if someone say something like "duclair not for bk mod map" go to hell.

Man, nobody is telling that you must not play this map. The thing is that people play on map that is NOT balanced for BK mod and then complain that the mod is not balanced.

Duclair is relatively small map, that means that you can camp certain arty pieces in your base and you will reach with it anywhere, which is a problem. Duclair is also a narrow map which means that if you send planes in certain directions, AA units have less time to shoot them down which means that doctrines with planes have an advantage here.Also the advantage of certain doctrines or factions is meant to be mobility and if you play on a small map such as Duclair this advantage is gone because anyone can get anywhere on the map very quickly.

So nobody really says that you cannot play Duclair, but if you play Duclair or any other map that is not balanced for BK, don't complain about balance of the mod, that is all.

I am not talking about Henschels and US Air patrol - these abilities send planes in random directions, often directly towards AAs. But if you use any of the "single plane" abilities, then you have much higher chance to not get shot down.

Tor wrote:I don't know about allie, but Henschel patrol don't work at all if enemy have 2 Quad halftracks in duclair.

Are you an idiot? ..... once played a 2v2 in duclair .... shaka + wurf vs lehr + nephalem, we won thanks to the henschel of wurf !!!! ... nephalem had many tanks and lehr had two crusades +40 mm ... they did not knock down a single plane!

AA sometimes kill all Henschels at once, but other times also fail to shoot down a single plane Depends on ur luck.So, I don't think Tor is wrong with what he says.. but also Shanks is not wrong actually! However... My point is; no one here is an idiot.

And I agree with MarKr, the bigger the map.. the better! Because airstrikes have much higher chances on smaller maps, obviously!

the riflemen are not "OP", these repetitions only show, how bad the Axis (lehr + wurf) played, I will not explain everything they did wrong, but I will say that starting with cars (PE) is a double weapon edge, and you must take care not to lose them easily!.........also 2 PE and did nothing, sorry ... I do not say that they are bad players ... but definitely this is not all the power of axis!

I wanna see you do better as pe against sniper/Boys/rifle and recce spamm

I will do it for you vs "pro players", just wait.....seriously, I respect you, I could say I learned a lot from you in 1v1, but you got used to always playing with wurf, in most cases vs new players ... this way you lose "your style", then you turn to face vs good players, and you make a post like this ... it should not be like that

Thats not even true sure we play vs newbys sometimes but just because they have balls most other good players dont even join us... and then we are getting boring to wait also this game is fulled by newbys just said

Edit: Do not Forget i had a bk break and when i came back we instantly fought andrusha and tormoz this was basicly my 3-4 match in that new patch ! okay come vs me and wurf we go allie and do exactly as andrusha and tormoz did i will go british spamm early cromwell before getting captain and stuff will see you Counter that plus sniper spamm. you should not judge me or us *wurf and me* when you barely see us Play you once left our host with figree just to kill noobs *father and his mates* i saw that. so your not even able to say "we fight only noobs" hell wurf once hosted a game named "only good Players" and we had to wait lets be honest 2 HOURS! Ps: your words are basicly insulting old old old old legendary Teams such as cyberzombie/Butterkeks, classic/nugiman and much more they were almost ALWAYS playing together does that make them noob? no. Butterkeks and cyber were A REAL hardcore Team! their Units of both of them never stood still for 2 seconds their micromanagement was hardcore and over the Level of an human! so you shouldnt say just because 2/3 Player stick together they getting weak! also you Insult andrusha and tormoz THEY ONLY Play together as well andrusha do it like i do when tormoz is off he sometimes do 1v1 just like i do !

SunZiom: but true is you`re only one man which i know who really know how play PECyberdyneModel101: you're unstoppable

Panzer-Lehr-Division wrote:Thats not even true sure we play vs newbys sometimes but just because they have balls most other good players dont even join us... and then we are getting boring to wait also this game is fulled by newbys just said

Edit: Do not Forget i had a bk break and when i came back we instantly fought andrusha and tormoz this was basicly my 3-4 match in that new patch ! okay come vs me and wurf we go allie and do exactly as andrusha and tormoz did i will go british spamm early cromwell before getting captain and stuff will see you Counter that plus sniper spamm. you should not judge me or us *wurf and me* when you barely see us Play you once left our host with figree just to kill noobs *father and his mates* i saw that. so your not even able to say "we fight only noobs" hell wurf once hosted a game named "only good Players" and we had to wait lets be honest 2 HOURS! Ps: your words are basicly insulting old old old old legendary Teams such as cyberzombie/Butterkeks, classic/nugiman and much more they were almost ALWAYS playing together does that make them noob? no. Butterkeks and cyber were A REAL hardcore Team! their Units of both of them never stood still for 2 seconds their micromanagement was hardcore and over the Level of an human! so you shouldnt say just because 2/3 Player stick together they getting weak! also you Insult andrusha and tormoz THEY ONLY Play together as well andrusha do it like i do when tormoz is off he sometimes do 1v1 just like i do !

why am I insulting andrusha or tormoz ?? ... am I insulting you? ... you are sensitive hahaha; If you think I am insulting someone, let me tell you that you are wrong, and obviously, I do not think that because you lost 2 games in a row, it means that the allies are "OP" ... you know that I always play you in 2v2, with a partner at random, I enjoy "although I lose" ... but you should know, that a team like yours, most likely enter good players, such as mencius + karma ... andrusha + powder ... Tiger + Frost or something similar, so, you said, "I came back after a while" ... I do not think you will recover the rhythm in 4 or 5 games, much less vs. pro players; and it's not a good idea to say that "riflemen are OP", just because you lost as a result, it's just an opinion

Tor wrote:Duclair funnist map in this mod, thats why all continue play duclair.All know duclair good, so its always fair game.I don't play new maps to much, but new maps feels strange, i pretty sure martinville unbalanced (for faction or side idk), and no one write something about that.So if someone say something like "duclair not for bk mod map" go to hell.One of this replays, probably best game i ever had, 15 min non stop action, my head cpu load at 100%.

I have no fun in 4vs4 at all, its so bored, and playing 2vs2 in 3vs3 maps same, thats point to moving units and wait, wait and wait, locking how they moving, wtf.I have steel division and don't play because of that, i already tired of this in Wargame airland battle.

Duclair is played over years over and over again. For years i played nothing else than duclair and Autry. I met lots of guys that were almost unbeatable at this map. I became good there as well together with a mate.

But those guys, which were extremely good there, performed incredible bad when we first played reversed defense.

The balance is very different once you played more maps and 3 vs 3 and 4 vs 4. Like Fields of engagment and graves bridges. On those maps brits are defniately harder to play as mobility becomes more important. Light vehicles with 20 mm and medium tanks like tank IV´s and Panthers later are extremely deadly. You can bypass all these Boys AT, emplacments and what else shit brits have.

US arty is extremely weak there bc there is lot more open space so less crampy shit that is nice for off maps. The howitzers usage is extremely limited. While you cant hide your neblers from howitzers at duclair it is easily possible at those maps.

Also, when start people to understand that map size is important for certain docs. Inf doc is very good at low MP and high ammo maps. Like on many 1 vs 1 maps or autry. Armor is better with MP, fuel and map size. Terror becomes veeery good at large maps with high MP income. There you can get all your expensive stuff a lot more easily. Ammo isnt much needed bc grens get stgs by default and tanks do not need special rounds to kill their targets.If you have MP and ammo intense maps BK doc is just great. You get many tanks quickly and also upgrades to your inf or fuel by res trade.

Then we have urban maps which is good for AB and SE (booby traps, sabotage squad etc).

Also on small maps cheap howitzers early available can win the game. On bigger maps later but more expensive mobile howitzers are the match winners.

Dont let me start about AA guns and their efficiency. On Duclair -when you have two Ostwind on the hill looking in different directions- No inf and No plane will every enter or pass the hill. Its the ultimate lock down. Hetzer nearby and good luck then.

Jeez, you can continue this all day long.

Idk if anyone remembers SunZiom alis ashmedai or major sturmgeist etc and their mates. They did great at duclair and autry. But once we got on bigger maps (when the lobby bug was no longer present when Bk went to steam) these players had issues to play down their metas. They improved since then.

But you see lots of players that play certain faction combinations on certain maps. I knew many that played axis only on autry, allis only at duclair.

Anyone can remember Vikts, withetiger etc? They played countless games as axis on road to cherbourgh with double def doc. Or NastyLittleMan? Only Wolfheze and def doc?

There are maps favouring gamesytles, doctrines, factions. And Duclair is a map that is reflecting only a very small part of BK balance. Early game matters and doctrines good in the early stages. That means for allis Inf/RE/RAF.

So i am sorry. I just dont trust players or their reputation which play always one and the same map. Perhaps you guys start playing more maps, at best all playable maps. Use various team compositions and doctrine combinations.

For me it was a huge surprise when we started playing on basically all maps and not just on two or three. I am sure you will make the same experience.

So yeah:

MarKr wrote:Man, nobody is telling that you must not play this map. The thing is that people play on map that is NOT balanced for BK mod and then complain that the mod is not balanced.

Duclair is relatively small map, that means that you can camp certain arty pieces in your base and you will reach with it anywhere, which is a problem. Duclair is also a narrow map which means that if you send planes in certain directions, AA units have less time to shoot them down which means that doctrines with planes have an advantage here.Also the advantage of certain doctrines or factions is meant to be mobility and if you play on a small map such as Duclair this advantage is gone because anyone can get anywhere on the map very quickly.

So nobody really says that you cannot play Duclair, but if you play Duclair or any other map that is not balanced for BK, don't complain about balance of the mod, that is all.

Panzer-Lehr-Division wrote:Thats not even true sure we play vs newbys sometimes but just because they have balls most other good players dont even join us... and then we are getting boring to wait also this game is fulled by newbys just said

Edit: Do not Forget i had a bk break and when i came back we instantly fought andrusha and tormoz this was basicly my 3-4 match in that new patch ! okay come vs me and wurf we go allie and do exactly as andrusha and tormoz did i will go british spamm early cromwell before getting captain and stuff will see you Counter that plus sniper spamm. you should not judge me or us *wurf and me* when you barely see us Play you once left our host with figree just to kill noobs *father and his mates* i saw that. so your not even able to say "we fight only noobs" hell wurf once hosted a game named "only good Players" and we had to wait lets be honest 2 HOURS! Ps: your words are basicly insulting old old old old legendary Teams such as cyberzombie/Butterkeks, classic/nugiman and much more they were almost ALWAYS playing together does that make them noob? no. Butterkeks and cyber were A REAL hardcore Team! their Units of both of them never stood still for 2 seconds their micromanagement was hardcore and over the Level of an human! so you shouldnt say just because 2/3 Player stick together they getting weak! also you Insult andrusha and tormoz THEY ONLY Play together as well andrusha do it like i do when tormoz is off he sometimes do 1v1 just like i do !

why am I insulting andrusha or tormoz ?? ... am I insulting you? ... you are sensitive hahaha; If you think I am insulting someone, let me tell you that you are wrong, and obviously, I do not think that because you lost 2 games in a row, it means that the allies are "OP" ... you know that I always play you in 2v2, with a partner at random, I enjoy "although I lose" ... but you should know, that a team like yours, most likely enter good players, such as mencius + karma ... andrusha + powder ... Tiger + Frost or something similar, so, you said, "I came back after a while" ... I do not think you will recover the rhythm in 4 or 5 games, much less vs. pro players; and it's not a good idea to say that "riflemen are OP", just because you lost as a result, it's just an opinion

I say they are op not because i lose i say because they are i as a Person that played maybe us 2 years ago lasttime and just played them twice now can pretty much say when they are op or not, playing us IS ALOT EASIER then axis you can make 39483894988 mistakes yet you still can win i bet making 8 us engineers will make you win 2 pgs or even 2 stromgrens or even maybe? 4 pgs? thats all i am saying you talking out of this game, i talk in General in that game i dont mean andrusha or tormoz at all. i say allies are op by my own Feelings! if you dont know the Background Story so dont judge anything did i mention in this thread something about " i lose all day uhhh allies op op op op op " no! i say i rather Play allies too for having "stressless" games!

Edit: and again for you, do you see someone join us? sometimes you end 2 rounds and you still see us sitting in the host dont ya? and by the way we only host we dont enter games. also im woundering you tell me to not write stuff in the Forum about losing a game or two? WELL wierd.. the whole community is doing that, after all i'm lurking here and see People EVERYONE even you! complain about Things.

SunZiom: but true is you`re only one man which i know who really know how play PECyberdyneModel101: you're unstoppable

playing us IS ALOT EASIER then axis you can make 39483894988 mistakes (as alli) yet you still can win i

More precisely? And US its not the case. RA can punch you out of bad situations. But from my experience (which includes 5.13) US is often in a fucked up position when making mistakes early and/or mid game. Exceptions are perhaps urban maps. You will need the support of RA for getting back to game.

i say allies are op by my own Feelings! if you dont know the Background Story so dont judge anything did i mention in this thread something about " i lose all day uhhh allies op op op op op " no! i say i rather Play allies too for having "stressless" games!

Sorry when i come up with that question again, but:Who is "allies"? How shall devs make adjustment when its so unprecisley.US afterall have hard times for any comeback or when the early game failed. M1 Garand change reduced the chances to fail in the early game but if you do you get locked down fast afterall. early 81 mm mortars, 20 mm vehicles and 50 mm AT and early hetzers/stugs.

The Garand might be strong now but from the replays i saw so far the rifles fired from superior positions. When i had over 60 inf kills with volks against commandos it didnt mean that Volks are OP. I had games in old patches where i actually only used rifles and medic trucks to beat luftwaffe having two squads with arround 50 kills. It didnt change my opinion that the M1 Garand at that time was crap.

Or are you refering to brits? They indeed have a nice unit composition throughout the game. Boys AT, capable inf, Recce, Cromwell, Comet, Priest, Nice mixery of commandos etc etc.

The experiences ive made in 5.13 is that brits can do extremely well in hands of good players. Let it be legendary daimler car and cromwell tank runs or simple arty power. The US are still in a quite supportive role.

What makes the allied early game so dominating is that they have a better unit mix. Boys AT to deny vehicles, brits inf for ranged combat boosted by Lt. US meanwhile dominates the close combat with M1 Garands and Jeeps as infantry denial units.

Does this describe what you think? Bc this is what i can see. But this still means that "The Allies" are handled by decent players that can make full advantage of the two very different factions in a teamplay.

I play 4-5 times Bretonneux as axis vs noobs or players with worse skill, i lose in all games.Yesterday i first time play allies in this map, vs lehr and wurf, and lol, we win...Probably another unbalanced new map.

playing us IS ALOT EASIER then axis you can make 39483894988 mistakes (as alli) yet you still can win i

More precisely? And US its not the case. RA can punch you out of bad situations. But from my experience (which includes 5.13) US is often in a fucked up position when making mistakes early and/or mid game. Exceptions are perhaps urban maps. You will need the support of RA for getting back to game.

i say allies are op by my own Feelings! if you dont know the Background Story so dont judge anything did i mention in this thread something about " i lose all day uhhh allies op op op op op " no! i say i rather Play allies too for having "stressless" games!

Sorry when i come up with that question again, but:Who is "allies"? How shall devs make adjustment when its so unprecisley.US afterall have hard times for any comeback or when the early game failed. M1 Garand change reduced the chances to fail in the early game but if you do you get locked down fast afterall. early 81 mm mortars, 20 mm vehicles and 50 mm AT and early hetzers/stugs.

The Garand might be strong now but from the replays i saw so far the rifles fired from superior positions. When i had over 60 inf kills with volks against commandos it didnt mean that Volks are OP. I had games in old patches where i actually only used rifles and medic trucks to beat luftwaffe having two squads with arround 50 kills. It didnt change my opinion that the M1 Garand at that time was crap.

Or are you refering to brits? They indeed have a nice unit composition throughout the game. Boys AT, capable inf, Recce, Cromwell, Comet, Priest, Nice mixery of commandos etc etc.

The experiences ive made in 5.13 is that brits can do extremely well in hands of good players. Let it be legendary daimler car and cromwell tank runs or simple arty power. The US are still in a quite supportive role.

What makes the allied early game so dominating is that they have a better unit mix. Boys AT to deny vehicles, brits inf for ranged combat boosted by Lt. US meanwhile dominates the close combat with M1 Garands and Jeeps as infantry denial units.

Does this describe what you think? Bc this is what i can see. But this still means that "The Allies" are handled by decent players that can make full advantage of the two very different factions in a teamplay.

No no not to you talking to shanks

SunZiom: but true is you`re only one man which i know who really know how play PECyberdyneModel101: you're unstoppable

Tor wrote:I play 4-5 times Bretonneux as axis vs noobs or players with worse skill, i lose in all games.

And when you play as allis vs noobs? Just asking, perhaps you already did.Perhaps you have the games saved?Or do you have their names?

I remember first match, all 3 players have 1-1 W/L Stats, 1-2 months ago, i play smurf and i have 2 PC, so probably i don't have replays.I play WH, and this biggest mistake, 37mm(50) useless in this map, not enough open space.I use bike, bike actualy bad, but WH have nothing more to find spotter, so i awlays use bike.If Brit win first fight in this game and place truck in 9fuel position, its gg soon or later, and he win...But later, after he build recce, he did same with 10 ammo point And +- i have all games like that.

Panzer-Lehr-Division wrote:Thats not even true sure we play vs newbys sometimes but just because they have balls most other good players dont even join us... and then we are getting boring to wait also this game is fulled by newbys just said

Edit: Do not Forget i had a bk break and when i came back we instantly fought andrusha and tormoz this was basicly my 3-4 match in that new patch ! okay come vs me and wurf we go allie and do exactly as andrusha and tormoz did i will go british spamm early cromwell before getting captain and stuff will see you Counter that plus sniper spamm. you should not judge me or us *wurf and me* when you barely see us Play you once left our host with figree just to kill noobs *father and his mates* i saw that. so your not even able to say "we fight only noobs" hell wurf once hosted a game named "only good Players" and we had to wait lets be honest 2 HOURS! Ps: your words are basicly insulting old old old old legendary Teams such as cyberzombie/Butterkeks, classic/nugiman and much more they were almost ALWAYS playing together does that make them noob? no. Butterkeks and cyber were A REAL hardcore Team! their Units of both of them never stood still for 2 seconds their micromanagement was hardcore and over the Level of an human! so you shouldnt say just because 2/3 Player stick together they getting weak! also you Insult andrusha and tormoz THEY ONLY Play together as well andrusha do it like i do when tormoz is off he sometimes do 1v1 just like i do !

why am I insulting andrusha or tormoz ?? ... am I insulting you? ... you are sensitive hahaha; If you think I am insulting someone, let me tell you that you are wrong, and obviously, I do not think that because you lost 2 games in a row, it means that the allies are "OP" ... you know that I always play you in 2v2, with a partner at random, I enjoy "although I lose" ... but you should know, that a team like yours, most likely enter good players, such as mencius + karma ... andrusha + powder ... Tiger + Frost or something similar, so, you said, "I came back after a while" ... I do not think you will recover the rhythm in 4 or 5 games, much less vs. pro players; and it's not a good idea to say that "riflemen are OP", just because you lost as a result, it's just an opinion

I say they are op not because i lose i say because they are i as a Person that played maybe us 2 years ago lasttime and just played them twice now can pretty much say when they are op or not, playing us IS ALOT EASIER then axis you can make 39483894988 mistakes yet you still can win i bet making 8 us engineers will make you win 2 pgs or even 2 stromgrens or even maybe? 4 pgs? thats all i am saying you talking out of this game, i talk in General in that game i dont mean andrusha or tormoz at all. i say allies are op by my own Feelings! if you dont know the Background Story so dont judge anything did i mention in this thread something about " i lose all day uhhh allies op op op op op " no! i say i rather Play allies too for having "stressless" games!

Edit: and again for you, do you see someone join us? sometimes you end 2 rounds and you still see us sitting in the host dont ya? and by the way we only host we dont enter games. also im woundering you tell me to not write stuff in the Forum about losing a game or two? WELL wierd.. the whole community is doing that, after all i'm lurking here and see People EVERYONE even you! complain about Things.

We can try 1v1, you (USA), me (PE or WM)...you're pro, I'm noob ..... if I win you, it means you're wrong, if you win, you're right, but it's hard to lose against a noob ... right?

In other hand

in fact, yes, I'm complaining about RE, for reasons that you know! ... Comet? ... does not justify 6 direct CP, in its current state .... or will you say yes?

why am I insulting andrusha or tormoz ?? ... am I insulting you? ... you are sensitive hahaha; If you think I am insulting someone, let me tell you that you are wrong, and obviously, I do not think that because you lost 2 games in a row, it means that the allies are "OP" ... you know that I always play you in 2v2, with a partner at random, I enjoy "although I lose" ... but you should know, that a team like yours, most likely enter good players, such as mencius + karma ... andrusha + powder ... Tiger + Frost or something similar, so, you said, "I came back after a while" ... I do not think you will recover the rhythm in 4 or 5 games, much less vs. pro players; and it's not a good idea to say that "riflemen are OP", just because you lost as a result, it's just an opinion

I say they are op not because i lose i say because they are i as a Person that played maybe us 2 years ago lasttime and just played them twice now can pretty much say when they are op or not, playing us IS ALOT EASIER then axis you can make 39483894988 mistakes yet you still can win i bet making 8 us engineers will make you win 2 pgs or even 2 stromgrens or even maybe? 4 pgs? thats all i am saying you talking out of this game, i talk in General in that game i dont mean andrusha or tormoz at all. i say allies are op by my own Feelings! if you dont know the Background Story so dont judge anything did i mention in this thread something about " i lose all day uhhh allies op op op op op " no! i say i rather Play allies too for having "stressless" games!

Edit: and again for you, do you see someone join us? sometimes you end 2 rounds and you still see us sitting in the host dont ya? and by the way we only host we dont enter games. also im woundering you tell me to not write stuff in the Forum about losing a game or two? WELL wierd.. the whole community is doing that, after all i'm lurking here and see People EVERYONE even you! complain about Things.

We can try 1v1, you (USA), me (PE or WM)...you're pro, I'm noob ..... if I win you, it means you're wrong, if you win, you're right, but it's hard to lose against a noob ... right?

In other hand

in fact, yes, I'm complaining about RE, for reasons that you know! ... Comet? ... does not justify 6 direct CP, in its current state .... or will you say yes?

yeah sure lets do it

SunZiom: but true is you`re only one man which i know who really know how play PECyberdyneModel101: you're unstoppable