Has BMW slipped? Is Mercedes now the German performance enthusiast brand of choice?

Has BMW slipped? Is Mercedes now the German performance enthusiast brand of choice?

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Has BMW slipped? Is Mercedes now the German performance enthusiast brand of choice?

Many of us were attracted to German performance by BMW. There was a time when they made cars unlike anyone else. Cars that took no short cuts, with motors that represented the best their engineers had to offer. Now what do we have? Anti-tuning ecu's, the same motor in every car, M SUV's, FWD city cars coming, smaller and smaller motors paired with extreme brand dilution.

While this has all been taking place, Mercedes has upped the ante. Mercedes is producing larger V8's with turbos. Mercedes is not afraid to place these motors in their lower end cars even if it steps on big brothers toes (C63 vs. E63, anyone?). Mercedes has rolled out the SLR, SLS, CLK63 Black Series, and SL65 Black Series. Rumor has it that Mercedes will put their twin turbo V8 in a black series C-coupe. If that isn't upping the ante, I do not know what is.

BMW has announced the next generation M3 will have a 6 cylinder. While they are downsizing Mercedes is sticking a V8 in everything. They are even planning on expanding the AMG lineup and also considering producing an entry level SLS to rival the Porsche 911. Somehow, Mercedes went from being soft to being hardcore offering the black series which takes already potent AMG cars to the next level. Not to mention, unlike BMW and Audi, Mercedes has successfully rolled out all their performance models in the United States. Times are changing folks, and at least to this poster, it sure looks like Mercedes is now the enthusiast brand of choice.

Well then, I was mistaken. Sounds like BMW better get their $#@! together, although the Black Series isn't really comparable to anything BMW makes. It'll be interesting to see what they do with these TT sixes for the next M3.

Sounds like BMW better get their $#@! together, although the Black Series isn't really comparable to anything BMW makes

Exactly, that is the problem. Mercedes makes more hardcore drivers cars than BMW, how the hell did that happen?

Originally Posted by Stahlgrau

They need to bring back the CSL.

They cancelled it for the M SUV's but I agree, would be nice. Although the GTS basically is that but I feel BMW only made it to try to shut the enthusiasts up. Considering we can't get it, it might as well not exist.

That is because Mercedes is not able to produce a real sports car with low weight even despite having the cars so expensive that some weight reduction should be possible for that money.

Not able and CHOOSING not to are 2 very different things. If any joe shmo can throw carbon fiber parts made in Taiwan on a car to lose weight, you really think that MB is "not able" to do this?

And I actually hate the new MB styling besides the C63 which should have came from the factory with wider rear quarter panels to match the front fenders. What the 63 motors ae doing with just bolt ons is nothing short of amazing!

Not able and CHOOSING not to are 2 very different things. If any joe shmo can throw carbon fiber parts made in Taiwan on a car to lose weight, you really think that MB is "not able" to do this?

And I actually hate the new MB styling besides the C63 which should have came from the factory with wider rear quarter panels to match the front fenders. What the 63 motors ae doing with just bolt ons is nothing short of amazing!

That goes both ways, really. Anyone can design big displacement motors with big power. BMW chooses to make their power differently and for different purposes.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with big power, big displacement motors. Just saying the cars aren't quite aimed at the same customers, in my opinion.

Performance is a lot more than throwing the biggest engine you can find in your smallest car (not saying it isn't fun. It's a classic combo from shelby cobras to GTOs).

BMW is still the top dog when it comes to a balanced car. M3s still win comparison tests against the C63. To quote from a comparison test "Next to the C63 and RS 4, this latest M3 offers the purest, least diluted, most involving, and best-in-class driver-and-machine relationship. Those characteristics are what made the M3 great, and they're still evident in a faster and more refined package."

That is why BMW is great plain and simple.

I think Mercedes has stepped up more than BMW has slipped. For years, enthusiasts would just laugh at a the thought of buying a benz. They were soft luxo couches for the autobahn. Not any more.

BMW still sets the standard for sport sedans. They have some work to do in the hp race but nothing twin turbo v8s can't solve

What it is, is that BMW is chasing Mercedes in the luxury departement so their building the cars softer they way Mercedes have been successful. For Mercedes, its the opposite. Their chasing BMW in the performance departement, so their building the cars to be faster and harder.

The real problem imo is Mercedes has a hardcore following. BMW does to but to say you own a Mercedes, for Mercedes is enough to draw a larger cumsumer base. BMW is now building cars to please everyone in every category in order to draw a larger consumer base. In the process BMW has gone away from what made them the best imo.

IMO Mercedes is building cars with big engines and such but they still are not on par with all around performance. Mercedes = German muscle car when it comes to performance.

What it is, is that BMW is chasing Mercedes in the luxury departement so their building the cars softer they way Mercedes have been successful. For Mercedes, its the opposite. Their chasing BMW in the performance departement, so their building the cars to be faster and harder.

But BMW has moved downscale, so are they chasing Mercedes in the luxury department or Toyota in the volume department?

Originally Posted by lughed

IMO Mercedes is building cars with big engines and such but they still are not on par with all around performance. Mercedes = German muscle car when it comes to performance.

This is what is changing, the Black Series was a major step and some could say Mercedes is starting to build better all around cars. When they start offering DCT's in their AMG's it will be interesting.

But BMW has moved downscale, so are they chasing Mercedes in the luxury department or Toyota in the volume department?

This is what is changing, the Black Series was a major step and some could say Mercedes is starting to build better all around cars. When they start offering DCT's in their AMG's it will be interesting.

The Black Series, CSL, GTS, etc. are all very small production numbers. They're a very tiny part of a bigger picture. I doubt they're huge money makers for the manufacturers, but just something exciting to put out there for a few select buyers.

Being that they're only produced in such small numbers and not much profit is made, it seems BMW has chosen to focus their efforts elsewhere. Selling more cars to different audiences.

The Black Series, CSL, GTS, etc. are all very small production numbers. They're a very tiny part of a bigger picture. I doubt they're huge money makers for the manufacturers, but just something exciting to put out there for a few select buyers.

They are image builders and reflect the companies ideals. They are models which are a matter of pride and designed to compete against the best of the best.

Mercedes at least respects their enthusiasts enough to roll them out worldwide. Also, Mercedes offers real supercars, BMW doesn't. That is a major issue in of itself.

Originally Posted by Stahlgrau

Being that they're only produced in such small numbers and not much profit is made, it seems BMW has chosen to focus their efforts elsewhere. Selling more cars to different audiences.