Posted 4 years ago on March 15, 2013, 5:34 p.m. EST by DKAtoday
(33090)
from Coon Rapids, MN
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

From Food & Water Watch:

I wanted to give you a quick update on an email I sent earlier this week (see below). The Senate hasn't yet voted on the two bad provisions that would hurt family farmers, including the "Monsanto Rider," and your Senators are key swing votes that could decide whether or not farmers are protected.

The "continuing resolution" is a bill both the House and Senate must complete before the end of March to avoid shutting down the federal government. The Senate just released its version of the bill, which includes two dangerous provisions in the section on the USDA’s budget.

One would weaken the oversight of genetically engineered crops by limiting the ability of federal courts to review the USDA’s work when approving these controversial new foods.

The other would stop enforcement of contract fairness rules for contract poultry growers, allowing big chicken companies to continue to treat them unfairly.

With your help, we've defeated these amendments in the past, but we need your help again today to continue to keep them out.

We have really got to start kicking the shit out of the EPA as Well as the FDA. I saw on the PBS News Hour tonight where we have chromium 6 contamination in water - I did not catch where this contamination was ( will have to do more looking ) - but chromium 6 is a well known carcinogen and the EPA has done nothing about this finding for several years now.

" When it comes to polluting the environment, some of the worst offenders are our own federal agencies"....VP George Bush 1988

We have a exponential amounts of toxic compounds in our bodies at any given time. There is no way to measure the amounts or name the compounds given that as compounds are introduced, they combine with other compounds to create new compounds and so on and so on. Don't leave out the abundant pharmaceuticals...birth control/hormones, antidepressants, ADHD, heart meds, cholesterol meds, etc..

At one time the EPA and FDA were the strict oversight regulators of independent laboratories hired and paid for by industry to conduct their required permit testing. GWB (about 2001)completely disarmed FDA and handed over most all oversight to industry on a silver platter. Need we wonder why our food safety and drug safety is virtually non-existent? We MUST demand independent oversight that is paid for by industry. Our federal income tax dollars are paying for this junk ( science) that doesn't even work on our behalf. Essentially, we are purchasing nails for our own coffins.

For many years I was an independent environmental biologist that specifically monitored industry discharge based on regulations determined by the Clean Water Act. It wasn't even 5 years into the Clean Water Act that big industry began conducting their own in-house monitoring " in order to save money"....hmmm money on testing or money for fines? Did the EPA oppose that? Not at all. I was even hired to train industry employees and had I continued to work in the field would have probably ended up working for some big industrial plant. This corruption has been going on for many many years in all regulatory agencies.

To address George Bush's quote from 1988...George was right and while the Clean Water Act had good intentions, it conveniently didn't address the issues with Federal immunity from such regulations. Hence, when gov't and big industry work together as one( EPA with Shipyards for example) we end up where we are today..buried under " Federally-approved" toxic waste.

I guess they didn't do Longitudinal Studies ... kind of like Flouride in the Water and GMOs ... and SSRIs, Anti-depressant medications, and Ritalin. But when I went to school my father seemed to think all the studies were conducted and we could believe everything we were told by the Government.

In 1978, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency suspended spraying of Agent Orange in National Forests, due to a threefold increase in miscarriages in women living near forests that had been sprayed.[112][113]

According to Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs, 4.8 million Vietnamese people were exposed to Agent Orange, resulting in 400,000 people being killed or maimed, and 500,000 children born with birth defects.[1] Women had higher rates of miscarriage and stillbirths, as did livestock such as cattle, water buffalo, and pigs.[37]

Dioxins from Agent Orange have persisted in the Vietnamese environment since the war, settling in the soil and sediment and entering into food chain through the animals and fish that feed in the contaminated areas. Movement of dioxins through the food web has resulted in bioconcentration and biomagnification.[45]

I guess it's a good thing I didn't reproduce or I may have ended up with a 3-armed mutant mountain ninja on the cover of the Enquirer.

My grandfather was one the ' atomic vets' /engineers that experimented out in New Mexico. They told him to turn his back to the mushroom cloud. He died fairly young with cancer all over his back and lungs. Did they know? Many of the vets' families sued the govt and won. Apparently, the gov't did know. Again, this is one of those moments in history where there seemed to be a lack of commonsense. I mean, did anyone wonder why only their face needed to be shielded? My grandfather's face was in perfect shape when he died, I guess that's all that mattered.

They used to tell us in the lab to wear protective full coverage shoes. I commented once that it seemed rather ridiculous to be concerned about us cutting our big toe when we were being exposed to lethal toxic compounds all day. I guess they figured that it was more important to have all our digits in tact when we die from cancer.

A nearby base built a golf course directly on top of all their buried nuclear waste. People fish in the river right below the runoff, people play golf and work there without a care in the world and yet several of their family members have died from cancer in their 50's.

We are all guilty of not recognizing the obvious flaws in anyone's ' good' advice. It takes time, concern and curiosity to investigate the things we may have doubts about and most of us are either to busy or too intimidated by such matters to make the effort. Those of us who do are often left feeling helpless, hopeless and depressed. Sometimes I believe that perhaps ignorance does make for a happier life.

Well shucks , I'm heading out soon to go play at a St. Pat.'s day celtic session. I'm tired and it's cold and rainy but I'm sure my spirit will be lifted by a Guiness and a few tunes.

Very informative comment. Being a former worker in the industry has probably given you a better than average grasp of the situation. But like so many of the issues addressed here, what can we do about it?

I'm hanging. Yes, I have loads of experience with corruption including, being fired and permanently black-balled from the industry for refusing to dispose of laboratory waste in the local river. I was just a dumb naive young woman who still believed that doing the right thing would earn honor and at the very least, a free lunch that week. What was I thinking? You see, a formal education is worthless in the real world.

Now, what to do?
I don't have the answer. We need some sort of regulatory agency but we need it to be completely independent of industry and there needs to be very stiff penalties for fraternization ( between regulators and industry). Today employees that retire early in the gov't, go to work for the industry they were ' regulating'. That should not be allowed. At one time the FDA conducted it's own research and it seemed to work well keeping us safe. The problem was that everyone complained that it took too long to bring drugs to the market and the drug companies wanted quick sales and profits.
What are your thoughts?

Do you believe the states vs. Feds could do a better job at regulating? In which case, we would dissolve the EPA and FDA

Those are good questions. And no easy answers, I'm afraid, since the corruption is so entrenched. How would you go about restoring the FDA (and EPA I guess)? Eliminating the revolving door would go a long way, but how to stop undue influence from special interests?

And at first glance, since the federal agencies aren't doing the job they were designed to do, it might seem a good idea to eliminate them and let the states take over. But that's probably not the answer since every aspect of this, commerce, waterways, etc. are interstate. So really, restoring the integrity of the federal agencies would probably be the best option.

That would be a good move. And somehow we have to stop this revolving door bullshit. It's everywhere we point our finger; banking, government, the EPA and FDA, and on and on. Limits must be imposed, like a five year waiting period. And transparency is a big issue that needs to be addressed.

I'm not sure the states could or would operate any better than the Feds. They are just as corrupt in many cases. But your ideas re: revolving door and special interests would make a HUGE difference. Obama was well aware of how money corrupts federal programs and yet he has done nothing about ending lobbying as he promised. He's one of the boys now in the same club with the revolving door. We need an independent watch dog group that has real power behind it to enforce the ethics. Isn't there a gov't program for that too? hahahha

Hey I like the 10 year waiting period even better. And turning the issue over to the states would probably just make it worse. Not only are they sometimes just as corrupt, but the interstate issue would turn it into a quagmire probably. What good would it do for my state, for example, to have a great clean water program if states upstream are dumping their industrial waste into the Missouri or Mississippi Rivers? And what would a state do that had a great food quality program if they're importing food from a state that doesn't? They may have to check every single truckload of food that came into the state. What a nightmare. And the cost would just be passed on to us, as always.

And, of course, we have yet another President that made a whole host of promises that he then reneged on. No surprise there, I guess. Which is why I like the idea that's been brought up here a couple times recently that a politician should sign a contract so if he or she doesn't live up to their promises, they can be thrown out of office. I like that idea.

Which is why I like the idea that's been brought up here a couple times recently that a politician should sign a contract so if he or she doesn't live up to their promises, they can be thrown out of office.

How about after that waiting period the prospective employee would also be restricted from making government/institution contacts. Let em work in an office or in the field in their chosen industry but do not let them establish contacts with the agency.

Yep - they could learn the business just like anyone fresh off the street - and do any job that they qualify for - but that qualification would have limitations - no contact with government or government institutions. One caveat - they could not be hired by a company whom they had been in contact with while working for the government - gotta remove that reward for past services rendered possibility.

That I suppose could be sorted out by work history while working in or for the government - as a list of companies that are prohibited from hiring. W-2 form follow-up?

The toxins are not required to be non-toxic at all!!!!
The LC50 of the toxin is determined meaning that at what concentration is 50 percent of the population killed ( the population being the test organism..ie..fish or us) So, they subject us to those " safe upper limits' all the time. It's no biggie if 50 percent of us die, right?

Here's an interesting story from 2010:
June 20, aerial mosquito sprays ( so we're told)
June 24 23 Shingles cases around my neighborhood including me and my dentist who lives not far from here.
Did a little research and discovered pockets of Shingles epidemics in areas around the country where the sprays were being conducted.

Also, notice too that the Shingles vaccine was introduced and very heavily promoted at that same time/year/summer

Hi M,
I'm not a great researcher but I do have lots of miserable experience..hahahha You do fine. You're much better at expressing your thoughts than I am.

I can't really say that vaccines directly cause an active virus but there does seem to be an indirect cause. For one thing, children don't get chickenpox anymore which means that noone of us gets that added immunity from being exposed anymore. Are they spraying us with some variant of the chickenpox...as DK suggested? Time to do some research. Even if you believe you're shingles resistant, it's worth researching.

Oh, just take the compliment. You are a self taught bull dog full of life and love. I'm glad your diet is so impactful. It has me thinking about my situation. I did try the Eziecial Spelt Bread one time ... I thought it was good, tasted good, and seemed to have a lot of energy.

I've tried to get away from raised bread to see the difference with less sugar ... So I started with Burrito shells and seem to like the whole wheat varietites fine... not sure they provide energy. But I think bread does put on weight and raise the GI surgar level.

I didn't see that about variant spraying ... we really don't know half of what they do to us since our Text books are all controlled with bias for corporations, to make government look favorable, etc... well and science has been inflitrated as you know by corporate interests.

Medical experiments were conducted on a large scale on civilians who had not consented to participate. Often, these experiments took place in urban areas in order to test dispersion methods. Questions were raised about detrimental health effects after experiments in San Francisco, California, were followed by a spike in hospital visits; however, in 1977 the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention determined that there was no association between the testing and the occurrence of pneumonia or influenza.[52] The San Francisco test involved a U.S. Navy ship that sprayed Serratia marcescens from the bay; it traveled more than 30 miles.[52] One dispersion test involved laboratory personnel disguised as passengers spraying harmless bacteria in Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport.[52]

Scientists tested biological pathogens, including Bacillus globigii, which were thought to be harmless, at public places such as subways. A light bulb containing Bacillus globigii was dropped on New York City's subway system; the result was strong enough to affect people prone to illness (also known as Subway Experiment).[53] Based on the circulation measurements, thousands of people would have been killed if a dangerous microbe was released in the same manner.[52]

A jet aircraft released material over Victoria, Texas, that was monitored in the Florida Keys.[52]

LOL - tell that to the powers that be and I will try to also convey that you are not a lab rat either and are very wonderful and fluffy and sweet as well.

World War II saw the navy running tests on biological warfare - they would send a ship into the San Fransisco Bay and release an altered flu bug through their steam stacks - then track where cases of the flu showed up and how fast.

Nice way to put it - but don't get me started or I am liable to melt my keyboard with additional thoughts/observations.

[-] 3 points by Gillian (1730) 2 minutes ago

You are so spot on. The rich believe they are better than everyone else ( didn't Redford say something like that in the Great Gatsby?)

The funny thing is that they are all miserable fucks who really have no life. They one of the dogs that eat each other every day. They have no real human value in this world or among their peers. They don't relate to each other like humans. They are just the wealthier puppets in our society.
↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

Now, don't melt your keyboard or you'll have to go buy another one- just want they want you to do.
Last year one of the brokers called me, pretending to know all about my portfolio ( dead give away given that I don't have one) and when I called him out, he turned into a raging child and said something along the lines of.." You fucking bitch! Don't you ever talk down to me that way..you are nothing bitch, I am richer than you'll ever be!!!". I found out later that these brokers are glorified salesmen and are earning 10 dollar an hour and standing on their feet all day in a boiler room environment.
So, let's have mercy on them DK. You and I are so much richer than they will ever be. We have each other, they have nothing but money.

BTW - I think if that telemarketer Broker was at all successful - he no doubt would have let your finding him out roll off his back rather then blowing-up. So that one at least has apparently only got his fevered dreams to this point in time.

[-] 2 points by Gillian (1740) 1 minute ago

Now, don't melt your keyboard or you'll have to go buy another one- just want they want you to do.
Last year one of the brokers called me, pretending to know all about my portfolio ( dead give away given that I don't have one) and when I called him out, he turned into a raging child and said something along the lines of.." You fucking bitch! Don't you ever talk down to me that way..you are nothing bitch, I am richer than you'll ever be!!!". I found out later that these brokers are glorified salesmen and are earning 10 dollar an hour and standing on their feet all day in a boiler room environment. So, let's have mercy on them DK. You and I are so much richer than they will ever be. We have each other, they have nothing but money.
↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

science.howstuffworks.com/transport/flight/.../what-are-chemtrails.ht...
What are chemtrails, and should you be scared of them? Learn about conspiracy theories surrounding contrails, also known as "chemtrails."

BTW - how does my last remark ( heroin tracks ) make me a shill for the admin. I mean you do realize that this topic/thread is about stopping Monsatan from getting BS passed on a rider - Right?

[-] -1 points by eteller (5) 5 minutes ago

My post regarding fitzgerald was reply to Gillian. You didnt answer the question,..............how do you feel about chemtrails?
↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

SFB you apparently have no sense of humor - BTW you were mistaken in blasting me for quoting a "Hollywood star" - I didn't. Besides the quote was from the gr8 Gatsby so I believe you want to take issue with the author.

[-] -1 points by eteller (5) 15 minutes ago

stupid, uninformed sarcasm on your part. You either dont know what chemtrails are or you do and dont care because its the current govt that doing it and you shiil for the adminstration agenda.
↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

pranic nourishment, absorbing micronutrients from the air might be a theory for some elites, but guess you were being ironic.... I had never heard of Breatharians... Good word.

Perhaps Elites are shooting for Ancestor Worship as an end state to their Patriarchy. Strict military lines of authority... compliant children ... a nice grave that is taken care of, a shrine in the house some where ala Shinto style... Photographs and Portrait Painting over the fireplace as an Homage. Sounds very old European.

I lived on three shots of wheatgrass juice per day for a few months. Tried the fruitarian existence. Breatharians must be fairly relaxed, I'm guessing. Like the old sage that lives atop a mountain, meditating regularly. Though I have read of one Nun who lives on three dried figs a day, and is quite active in her gardening. She claimed that she only ate the figs to keep her digestive tract working.

Capitalist consumerism relies upon the uptake of more products with less nourishment. A can of soda is coloured sugared water. It offers no nutrition, and if it is "sugar-free" it has no energy either. The more processed our intake becomes, the hungrier we get.

On the ancestor worship issue, you are describing classic narcissism, which is really a form of mental disorder. Some of the most admired military men of our recent history were classic narcissists, and it has been said in some circles that our capitalist existence thrives on narcissism.

I guess we don't like to hear that we are all mad, and getting worse, not better.

Excellent response. I admire your discipline and strength. Renneye, DKA, and Gillian all agree with you on food for what I can see. Makes good sense. It makes me made to think that we were taught when I was young that we just needed to focus on vitamins. They were probably indoctrinating us when I was young. They knew there was more too it. And the other guidines too.

Last year there was a guru or swami in India that was not eating. I think they watched him in a hospital for 30 days to prove his power over the devine reflexes or over his body. Maybe it was a few years back actually. They were pretty sure he didn't eat much even if someone had snuck him something. I think India has many stories like this. I knew some people that really liked Sai Baba ... I ilked some of what I read in a book or two about him. I guess you would have to see him in person to really believe some of the things. He pass recently and think he left behind a large community. He seemed to be all about love.

Wheatgrass juice is just part of a lengthy cleansing process she used in her clinics. It (the juice) actually makes you feel quite ill, early on in the programme. Some terminally ill people can't take it orally, so it must be a suppository.

It's very easy to grow, and you can simply chew it if that suits you.

Dr Ann had terminal colon cancer, and cured herself, so I figured she wasn't about profitting from people's illness. Amazing lady, and there's plenty of info about her still floating around the internet. I read a book back then, of course.

LOL. Recent excavations reveal they are mounted on platforms, and the whole torso with legs and feet are down there under tens of metres of sand. Whether they were buried like that, or the millenia have buried them, is tough to say.

Regardless, the "savages" of the pacific island bloodlines explored and settled the Pacific ocean long before we had dugout canoes.

Devil makes work for idle hands, might just be a saying, but the illness they are suffering, NPD, is so close to solopsism as to be in the same basket(case).

Remember the dolts sipping champers on wall street, looking down on the protesters? These people already assume they are unlike the unwashed hordes lining the streets below them. They ride the elevator to a helipad, and meet up with a private jet at their own airstrip.

I shit you not. They are so far removed from us already, they don't care what happens to us, as long as their existence remains untouched.
↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

You are so spot on. The rich believe they are better than everyone else ( didn't Redford say something like that in the Great Gatsby?)

The funny thing is that they are all miserable fucks who really have no life. They one of the dogs that eat each other every day. They have no real human value in this world or among their peers. They don't relate to each other like humans. They are just the wealthier puppets in our society.

Bio-electric batteries - HUH - somehow I think we would all die from neglect - and they would be looking to do something else ( day late and a dollar short ). Sad how really bad ideas hang on forever ( slavery ).

Devil makes work for idle hands, might just be a saying, but the illness they are suffering, NPD, is so close to solopsism as to be in the same basket(case).

Remember the dolts sipping champers on wall street, looking down on the protesters? These people already assume they are unlike the unwashed hordes lining the streets below them. They ride the elevator to a helipad, and meet up with a private jet at their own airstrip.

I shit you not. They are so far removed from us already, they don't care what happens to us, as long as their existence remains untouched.

"Despite mounting evidence of its toxic effects, the EPA has not set a legal limit for hexavalent chromium in tap water nationally and does not require water utilities to test for it."

No surprise there, eh? But the second link was telling, especially in who showed up at the IRIS stakeholders meeting. All industry professionals apparently. Seems to me yet another conflict-of-interest story. Much like Monsatan employees and the revolving door with the EPA.

It is just so fucking hard to believe this shit - WTF is wrong with these bureaucratic assholes - WTF is wrong with people in government? Do they understand that "THEY" are not immune that their families are not immune?

Something special in the water indeed. Check out this quote from another article:

"Public water supplies in 42 U.S. states are contaminated with 141 unregulated chemicals for which the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has never established safety standards, according to an investigation by the Environmental Working Group (EWG). Another 119 regulated chemicals—a total of 260 contaminants altogether—were found by the environmental group in a two-and-a-half-year analysis of more than 22 million tap water quality tests. The tests, which are required under the federal Safe Drinking Water Act, were conducted at nearly 40,000 utilities that supply water to 231 million people. According to a report by the EWG, the top 10 states with the most contaminants in their drinking water were California, Wisconsin, Arizona, Florida, North Carolina, Texas, New York, Nevada, Pennsylvania and Illinois—in that order. EWG said the biggest sources of contaminants were agriculture, industry and pollution from sprawl and urban runoff."

An agricultural giant called the Monsanto Company has risen to the top of the corporate food chains thanks to their genetically modified corn and soybean sees, seeds bred to withstand and even produce their own herbicides and pesticides.

But in the decades since they’ve appeared on the scene, two more things have sprung up: a new crop of “superweeds” that have evolved to resist our chemicals, and root worms that have become insecticide-resistant “superworms,” both of which are set to swarm the Midwest in the coming year.

Rather than come clean, Monsanto has been covering their tracks, working to market their corn as fresh produce and spending millions to kill California’s Prop 37 requirement to label their corn and soybeans as genetically modified products.

The FDA still doesn’t require safety studies for Monsanto’s new strains, they’re designing food to produce dangerous chemicals, and these same chemicals have been breeding superworms that will devastate the landscape in the decades to come.

Don’t stay silent. Please, join us in calling on Monsanto to stop fighting Prop 37 in California, and spread this information on the danger of genetically engineered crops to as many friends as you can.

It’s time we knew what’s in the food we’re eating and the crops these companies are growing. Stop the superworm swarm: Join us in calling for greater transparency at the Monsanto Company!

Idle No More is protesting the C-45 bill. It's a protest specifically designed to fight for aboriginal land claims. It's great.

Occupy is designed to replace the government with anarchy. It's also great.

These are two different goals. It makes no sense for Occupy to play into politics because we are trying to demolish the system itself. In the case of Idle No More protesting bills that affect land claims make all the sense in the world.

I discussed gun control in great depth just a few weeks ago, even though it is unrelated to me as I am not American. Occupy is an international protest. You only discuss American politics with the other members of the Twinkle Team.

It seems to me you do not understand what Occupy is about. You treat the protest as it if was a new political party.

Gosh a rootie Mr.Peabody, you're wayback machine must be working overtime, as you've only been here since 16th, so I'm thinking you must be very magical.

The link is one of many, and some MY favorite subjects are actually ALEC, the brothers Koch, global warming, bigotry, unions, WallStreet(remember them?) and many others, besides pointing out the plethora of (R)epelican't malfeasance and except for the (R)epelican't stuff all those subjects are very much a part OWS's focus.

Since you couldn't actually have commented on the gun issue, I could also provide you a link to a thread I started months ago on a way to possibly ease some of the problems. You weren't there, surprisingly, for someone so clairvoyant.....

OK, you like tyranny.
I don't.
You demonstrate a profound lack of insight.
I'm trying to turn on some lights.
You live in the system, yet deny that you do.
I don't.
What you are asking for is continued pain and suffering for the 99%.
I'd like to see the pain and suffering ended, or at least eased.
If you are waiting for the perfect system?
You will be waiting for a very long time.

Why do you spend time on Occupy's main forum if you don't believe in Occupy?

There's no point in voting. The system is broke. What you do is direct action, civil disobedience, and protesting until the government crumbles to its knees and you then replace it with anarchy. We don't need representatives. We should not legitimize the system with votes, nor demands.

There is no need for parties - I have always advocated addressing ISSUES and One Individual One Vote = leads to consensus - majority consensus - not unanimity.

Then let's get rid of the representative republic. Let's start attacking the system to create the revolution we need to implement anarchy across the land. Representative systems are so old school. Let's work on a strong e-democracy platform.

This is what I have been saying.They managed to integrate direct democracy inside the representative system by having the representatives of the party simply post the decisions made by the people.

R U confused much?

Yes, but it's undesirable. They did it this way because only one party uses demoex. If all the parties functioned with direct democracy it would make no sense to have parties, nor a representative republic. Read up on demoex, it's an experiment, not the most desirable solution. It's a patch if you will. Dirty, temporary. But a very interesting experiment nonetheless. Occupy is aiming higher. We want anarchy. No more political parties, no more representatives, no more republic. We want to govern ourselves.

I'm surprised so many Occupy forum users such as yourself are against the most basic ideas of Occupy. It's uncanny. I invite you to read up on Occupy.

No - I am talking about our representatives - representing - not deciding.

In a representative type of government, representatives make all kinds of decisions for you all the time. There's no such thing as representatives who represent without making decisions, not in current political systems anyhow.

How do you envisage the people voting for themselves - coming to consensus and forwarding that consensus? If not using local groups that network into a national representation of the peoples will.

Like I said, there's all kinds of systems for direct democracy. We already use one from time to time, a referendum. General assemblies are another. e-democracy is another. Also, you don't necessarily need to form a consensus in direct democracy. Some systems use a 2/3 vote majority, others a 75% majority. The important thing is that the people make decisions by themselves and for themselves.

Sweden's Demoex experiment is interesting. They managed to integrate direct democracy inside the representative system by having the representatives of the party simply post the decisions made by the people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demoex

Because Direct Democracy is a structure that appoints representatives to present GA/group findings ( not their own findings - the groups findings ). Findings from local groups meeting with other groups ending with National ( Total ) Group meeting (s).

Read up on direct democracy if you do not understand it. There are many various ways it can be implemented. The difference between direct democracy and a representative system is that the people govern themselves by making their own decisions.

You're confusing the term representatives. I'm talking about elected representatives that make decisions for the people. You're talking about consultation groups that do research so they can present it to the people who will then vote on it.

Because Direct Democracy is a structure that appoints representatives to present GA/group findings ( not their own findings - the groups findings ). Findings from local groups meeting with other groups ending with National ( Total ) Group meeting (s).

NO I am not giving power to the representatives - I am telling them what I do not want to see happen and I also tell them what I do want to see happen - I am sharing this with others to do the same - as for right now we do not have direct democracy and protesting against the bullshit whether on the streets or over the internet - is how we educate the public while at the same time telling government our point of view.

You act as though all we gotta do is ignore them and they will go away - U R wrong.

Telling your representatives what you want and don't want from them legitimizes their power over you. This is why Occupy does not make demands to the system, because that would legitimize the system.

The first step in being an Occupier is to stop using the system. Don't vote, and stop caring for representatives and what they think and say. Don't write them letters. Don't make petitions, etc...

The second step is to start doing actions to make a difference. Direct actions. Civil disobedience. Crush the system with pressure from outside. Protest in the street. Occupy.

The third step is to educate the people by showing them an e-democratic platform that works. This is what Occupy should be working on right now.

NO I am not giving power to the representatives - I am telling them what I do not want to see happen and I also tell them what I do want to see happen - I am sharing this with others to do the same - as for right now we do not have direct democracy and protesting against the bullshit whether on the streets or over the internet - is how we educate the public while at the same time telling government our point of view.

You act as though all we gotta do is ignore them and they will go away - U R wrong.

The link is one of many, and some MY favorite subjects are actually ALEC, the brothers Koch, global warming, bigotry, unions, WallStreet(remember them?) and many others, besides pointing out the plethora of (R)epelican't malfeasance and except for the (R)epelican't stuff all those subjects are very much a part OWS's focus.

These are not issues related to Occupy. Occupy is not an anti-republican, pro democrat protest. It's an anti government protest. It attacks the system as a whole and doesn't legitimize representatives by making demands. Occupy is anarchy. It's about civil disobedience, direct action, and using direct democracy to show that we can organize ourselves without the need for government.

You never discuss issues like direct democracy, anarchy, civil disobedience, direct action, Occupy affinity groups, etc... What you discuss is politics, which is not the domain of Occupy.

You should be part of a political party like the Greens or the democrats. You still believe in the government. What you are against is the positions and ideas of some representatives and parties like the republicans. You should fight against those things in the context of a political party. Instead, you come to this website pretending Occupy is an anti-republican protest and you fill it with your political babble. And, you portray yourself as one of the site's prosecutors by always attacking those with a different opinion than yours with logical fallacies instead of proper arguments in the context of healthy debates.

So then you must be speaking for yourself and a small group of followers as that is not Occupy's objective = destruction. Occupy's objective is getting government back into the hands of the people - however that might happen - working within and without the current systems - to make change. To end corruption and crime - to grow a healthy society in a healthy world.

No, we don't play from within the system. This was decided at one of the early GA. That's why we didn't make political demands, start a political party, support a particular political party, etc... Occupy is anarchy. It's all from outside the political system. That's why we created out own political system with general assemblies. We wanted to show the people that we didn't need to wait for politicians, that we could create the better world ourselves. One of Occupy's mottos from the beginning is - "We can govern ourselves, we don't need politicians or representatives."

Occupy is about taking the power into our own hands. If we protest a particular bill we wouldn't do that, we would be asking for the powers at be to choose for us. We can choose for ourselves. You don't need to protest and beg your mom when you're an adult, you just do it by yourself.

I support MTA's work. I support Idle No More. And many other political protests. But, these groups are not Occupy. They want to better the system, we want to destroy it. Destroying it will take time, so it's good if some other groups want to spend time and efforts trying to better it in the meantime. We can support them without spending our time in that direction. All my time is for Occupy as this is a bigger more important goal.

So then you must be speaking for yourself and a small group of followers as that is not Occupy's objective = destruction. Occupy's objective is getting government back into the hands of the people - however that might happen - working within and without the current systems - to make change. To end corruption and crime - to grow a healthy society in a healthy world.

Pure Anarchy is a lot of work. Im not sure the people have the self discipline to keep at it. Or the time. Or both.

If the process is efficient then it will work. We just need to build a good e-democracy framework. In Sweden, the Demoex experiment is working wonderfully. The people are motivated to get back into politics. In representative systems it's normal that people become apathetic about politics because they feel like they can't really make a difference. Look at all the time and energy people spend at Occupy protests. A lot of energy would be saved if we could simply get involved into the decision making process. Then there would be no need for protests.

"govern themselves without representatives" While I agree with most of what you are saying, there are simply too many things do deal with, hence the need to appoint some people to areas of specialties.

We can have specialists who give the people advice and recommendations. The difference in anarchy is that the people make the decisions in the end, not the specialists. We already use direct democracy in the form of referendums. We just want it all the way across the board.

Occupy does not make demands - Occupy works to educate the public on the issues. The people make the demands. The people take the actions. The people make the changes. Occupy provides a meeting/communications hub for all groups working to create a better healthier world for ALL - nonviolently.

You fail to understand Occupy. I suggest you go to a GA. It sounds like you've never been to an Occupy event at all.

Obviously U speak 4 U'r self. Occupy has been political from day 1. Occupy is looking to create direct democracy - that would be political - that would be structure.
This means U need a better education.

Of course anarchy is political. What I mean is that Occupy does not play into the current political system because it wants to replace it entirely with another one. We don't fight against particular bills, we don't make demands, etc... That's what political protests and political groups do. It would make little sense if we tried to improve the current system of representatives since we don't even believe in it in the first place. Instead of wasting time fighting against particular bills, we use general assemblies to show people that they can govern themselves without representatives.

Occupy does not make demands - Occupy works to educate the public on the issues. The people make the demands. The people take the actions. The people make the changes. Occupy provides a meeting/communications hub for all groups working to create a better healthier world for ALL - nonviolently.

"govern themselves without representatives" While I agree with most of what you are saying, there are simply too many things do deal with, hence the need to appoint some people to areas of specialties.

"I dont want to go to the townhall meeting where we decide where all the stop signs will go"- Cobb