In A Year of 13 Moons is one of the Fassbinder titles I've not experienced yet. None of the video stores in my area carries this film but Borders has the DVD for sale. I'm soo tempted to buy it but I don't want to repeat the same mistake I made with Querelle (which wasted my 25 bucks).

Fassbinder is an unusual artist and not every film of his is a knockout. My favorites = Veronika Voss and Ali: Fear Eats The Soul. What catches my attention about 13 Moons is the "transvestite" (using the 70s term) and I'm very curious to see how Fassbinder handles this type of character especially he's soo good with women. Is this film in the same vein as my Fassbinder favorites?

Last edited by Michael on Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

All I can tell you is that that's one Fassbinder title that I've been wanting to see for the longest time and still haven't managed to do so.

As a minor appetizer, I have to tell you this: Fassbinder used the music featured on Visconti's Death in Venice on his film, too. As for the final result, I want to find out like crazy if it worked or not! So, rent it and give me/us some feedback, ok?

In A Year of 13 Moons is one of the Fassbinder titles I've not experienced yet. None of the video stores in my area carries this film but Borders has the DVD for sale. I'm soo tempted to buy it but I don't want to repeat the same mistake I made with Querelle (which wasted my 25 bucks).

Fassbinder is an unusual artist and not every film of his is a knockout. My favorites = Veronika Voss and Ali: Fear Eats The Soul. What catches my attention about 13 Moons is the "transvestite" (using the 70s term) and I'm very curious to see how Fassbinder handles this type of character especially he's soo good with women. Is this film in the same vein as my Fassbinder favorites?

13 Moons is my favorite Fassbinder film and the Fantoma disc is superb with a commentary, two interviews and an intro by Richard Linklater. I recommend it highly, especially if you liked Veronika Voss.

Am I three decades behind in my political correctness? Is "transvestite" a no-no word now, or is it just considered outdated, like "bodacious"?

Depends on the individual. Today younger folks don't seem to be comfortable with the word "transvestite" (I think it's because it sounds too old fashioned or maybe it's not longer PC). It's been sooo long time (years I would say) since I heard "transvestite" uttered from anyone's mouth and that's saying alot for anyone who's been working at a bustling gay night club for a decade (my position = security guard). The club where I'm working at offers various drag shows nightly. Plus I have a couple of close friends - one lives as a woman 24/7.. she likes to call herself "woman" even though she's pre-op and another friend only dresses up as a woman to perform for the shows, etc.. he calls himself "female impersonator" to straight folks and "drag queen" to gays. The other night, I ran into a woman who called herself a "transgender".. she corrected me after I used the word "transexual".. . GEEZ! Again, it depends on the individual.

I just felt like using "transvestite" when bringing up 13 Moons.. it just felt right using that word which I remember was more used back in the 70s.

But personally I dont give a fuck about PC or terms, etc. The last thing I want to do is to offend anyone on this forum or anywhere.. I intend to do whatever to stay respectable to everyone.

Langlois, thanks. I will look for the DVD today.

Last edited by Michael on Sat Nov 06, 2004 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Annie Mall wrote:As a minor appetizer, I have to tell you this: Fassbinder used the music featured on Visconti's Death in Venice on his film, too. As for the final result, I want to find out like crazy if it worked or not! So, rent it and give me/us some feedback, ok?

He also uses music from "Amarcord" in it. I have seen about 6 or 7 Fassbinder films; I loved the BRD Trilogy, and I really enjoyed "13 Moons." One word of warning: there is an extensive and VERY graphic scene involving cows in a slaughterhouse. If you get at all queasy from that stuff (and who doesn't?) just be forwarned. If you can get through that (just focusing on the subtitles and what the characters are discussing, as Linklater suggests in his introduction), you should be alright. The film, extras, and transfer on the Fantoma DVD are all great, though, so I would really recommend it.

Go straight to your etailer and order the Criterion Ali and BRD Trilogy. Then chek out the Fantoma R1 releases. Even the latest release, "Whity" is a very wicked piece of early mayhem, and a superb print and transfer.

Otehrwise here's the basic list:
Matha
IN a Year of 13 Moons
Fox and His Friends
Bitter Tears of Petra von Kant
Chinese Roulette
Merchant of 4 Seasons
and so on...

I would even recommend Querelle although all the current releases (R1 R2 and R4) are deficient in print/transfer quality and all are the English Language version (a real pity.) I also realize it's the subject of some derision (in SOME quarters) but it is an improtant and beautiful movie.

Finished watching 13 Moons five minutes ago. Need lots of time and a few more viewings to fully digest it. But I gotta say that it's up there as Fassbinder's best along with Veronika Voss. Great great great film ...so beautifully choreographed that everything seems to be floating like a never-ending drug-induced haze. Erwin/Elvira - what an unbearably heartbreaking performance. I don't think I will ever forget her. The nun walking throughout the bedroom in the eerily comforting finale is at first absurd then becomes so perfect.

For those of you who love films with great poetry, 13 Moons is your film.

The morning after...13 Moons definitely doesn't let you go even long after watching it. Surprisingly I slept like a baby an hour after watching it. The film is very harrowing but its finale is so full of beautiful serenity that calms and balances everything. I feel a great sense of peace after the nun dispappears once she blesses everything that's important to Erwin/Elvira.

The word "haunting" is unquestitonably invented for this film!...the slaughterhouse sequence - oh my god, I nearly lost my dinner. It is so brutal and scary but at the same time, very beautiful and poetic. Definitely a metaphor for many things - the concentration camps and Erwin's sacrifice. One of the best use of metaphor I've ever seen in films - so gorgeously choreographed that you could easily get lost in that slaughterhouse. And what about the visit to the nun? How the camera sweeps around as the nun reflecting on Erwin's childhood... its like the spirit leading us throughout the memories of Erwin's damaged childhood. I love the Cabiria-like prostitute in a fluffy fur coat.. after reciting a bedtime story to the corpse-like, sleeping Elvira , she watches the TV, flipping the channels for a good amount of time. What is the signifiance of that scene? Not sure of that.

Anyway, an amazing film that rocks my world at the moment. Fassbinder's best film easily (with Veronika Voss).

How do Fassbinder's other films Martha (made for TV ) and Fox And His Friends stand up to 13 Moons? Those two are the ones I've not seen yet.. looking forward to locating them.

Michael wrote:How do Fassbinder's other films Martha (made for TV ) and Fox And His Friends stand up to 13 Moons?

Martha is my favorite (besides Die bitteren TrÃ¯Â¿Â½nen der Petra von Kant) and it is pure psychological drama. I am a big fan of Margit Carstensen, nobody transports more energy, more fear through facial expression; i don't know if you can acknowledge it, but her articulation of Fassbinder's words in Martha is fantastic, she really delivers.
It is however a totally different universe compared to In a year with 13 moons, it is more like a stage play and more claustrophobic but great acting from both Karl Heinz BÃ¯Â¿Â½hm (Peeping Tom) and Margit Carstensen.
Give it a chance.

damn, better get to watching my martha dvd then. carstensen is amazing and the bitter tears of petra von kant is amongst my favorite fassbinder's so far (along with fox and his friends and the merchant of four seasons off the top of my head). i'm one of those who finds the concept of germans and humor paradoxical (no offense, i love me some germans), and all of his eh, comical, work just seems shrill, again, so far.

i did think it was fitting having linklater do the into for 13 moons, besides being a favorite of his as he says, as it seems to me the movie he is most trying to recapture in his own work, like altman and rules of the game.

Yeah.. at first I was surprised about that but after listening to his intro, now I can see it.. his enthusiasm and love for 13 Moons is wonderful to hear. But for any filmmaker, like Linklater trying to recapture 13 Moons in his works, all I have to say is "Viel Erfolg"!

I found the DVD of Fox & His Friends today and finished watching it just now. Another amazing film. The resonance is not as strong as 13 Moons.. it is a very compelling look at Berlin's 70s gay scene (the upper crust). Fassbinder in that role as Fox is cute esp in that leather jacket .. I mean the infectiously sad, wounded look that refuses to leave his eyes.. like a lost cat you come across on the road, wanting to rescue him and bring him home. In all, I think Fox is a fantastic film; a rare creature that is so filled with bold truth. With all my heart, it's a must see.

Last edited by Michael on Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

It's been a long time since I've seen 13 Moons, but I recall it as one of Fassbinder's most painful and moving films. I also recall the slaughterhouse scene as being brilliantly sadistic, particularly for non-German speaking audiences. From memory, the long, graphic sequence is accompanied by a vast amount of important expository dialogue, so the subtitle-dependent can't afford to look away, however upsetting they find the carnage.

Does this recollection match those of people who have actually seen the movie lately, or have I misremembered the dismemberment?

Fassbinder used the music featured on Visconti's Death in Venice on his film, too. As for the final result, I want to find out like crazy if it worked or not! So, rent it and give me/us some feedback, ok?

Annie Mall, apologies for not getting into that sooner. 13 Moons opens with a bunch of guys cruising and having public sex in the chilly early morning light. The Mahler music is played during this scene. It sounds very strange but it ultimately works. Strange because I had just seen Death In Venice for the first time a few weeks ago and the opening scene did sailed my mind to the Visconti film.

13 Moons also uses the music from Amarcord (and possibly Nights of Cabiria) - a strange choice I must say but it still works! My partner refused to sit through 13 Moons after I described a bit of its premise to him ... he doesn't like "depressing, disturbing, demanding" films that make up most of my DVD collection He's more of the Amarcord type of guy and in fact, that's his favorite foreign film of all time. He was in the other room while I was watching 13 Moons. At one point, he came in the room thinking I was watching Amarcord because of the music..after realizing his error, he went back out to the next room and sat down to savor the rest of the music, reflecting on the beach town and its folks of Amarcord - even if it's interwined with Edwin/Elvira's very painful, stirring , poetic rapid-fire voice-over.

EDIT: With all this talk about the famous slaughterhouse sequence and 13 Moons being a painful film, please please please don't let this scare you away or you're missing what I think is one of the finest, rarest of the modern cinema.

Is the slaughterhouse sequence sadistic? I don't think so. It is there for the most excellent reason and that is to serve as a very poweful metaphor for many things.. yes it is brutal and bloody but it's happening every minute everywhere... the line of beautiful cows parading to be slaughtered, sacrificed stands for the darkest history of Germany (concentration camps) and also for the darkest time of Edwin/Elvira's life - the sacrifice for the stronger folks whether it's for love or power. The weak folks like Edwin/Elvira and the cows get crushed like insects and that's how the world functions in the brilliant mind of Fassbinder.

One final thing. Another brilliant touch by Fassbinder. 13 Moons opens and ends with the dates (in the color of pink). They are not to be dismissed. .. Pay close attention to the conversation (with the mystical gay bodybuilder) midway through the film about the dates on the children's cemetery stones.

Last edited by Michael on Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

ben d banana wrote:i'm one of those who finds the concept of germans and humor paradoxical

I am Austrian, so no offense taken at all.
It's a funny thing, although we speak german too, we think of them as not especially funny people too.

ben d banana wrote:i did think it was fitting having linklater do the into for 13 moons

Me too, everyone seems to have been a little suspicious about Linklaters involvement, but since i also hadn't seen the movie before, his enthusiasm got me even more interested. So in the end no harm done.

A bit OT, but since the title of this thread is about Fassbinder and not about 13 Moons, I guess it wouldn't hurt to share some of my thoughts about what I regard to be his central films' theme.

And that must surely be Love as both a destructive force and as a weapon of power. In most all of his films we can clearly see two types of characters: the abbusers and the abbused. The ones that are in command of whatever emotional relationship they're in (and who treat love for granted) and the ones that are badly in need for any kind of human contact but end up betrayed and villified (these characters normally have an idealized notion of love).

If you know something about Fassbinder's life, you could right away see that he walked in both these character's shoes throughout his life - and amazingly he was often the abbuser. And I say amazingly because in his films you could clearly see that he had a crush for the broken-hearted - maybe out of regret, I guess.

Thanks for the kind words. I'd probably have to go with Veronika Voss as my favorite Fassbinder. In fact, it's one of my favorite films, period. But I'll readily admit that it's not orthodox Fassbinder. For my favorite among those featuring his regulars, I'd probably have to choose Petra von Kant or Chinese Roulette. Despite how much attention is often given to Hanna Schygulla as RWF's muse, I think Margit Carstensen is his ultimate secret weapon.

I still have yet to watch all of the R1 Fassbinder DVDs I bought last year, though, so these opinions may well change.

I looooooovvved it! Like a gothic ballet - magnicifently choreographed inside an anicent mansion. Very spectacular cinematography (one of Fassbinder's best) that acts like a stalker throughout the mansion.. the women are so captivating to look at. I love how Fassbinder frames them.. some are close-up and you could see the ice in their eyes. It seems like Fassbinder has a fetish for women on high heels, wearing fishnets. Very gorgeous film.