Personnel men and coaches routinely are convinced, even though others failed previously, that they can fix a problem player. Parcells and Sparano have a better shot than most. Parcells has a track record, and Sparano's roots are as an O-line coach.

Incognito has been apologetic about his past misdeeds and has professed a desire to keep his emotions under control.

In the locker room, however, players are skeptical about the decision and wonder about the mixed message.

"I think he'll make our line better," one Dolphins player said. "But I don't get it. What he represents goes against everything they've been telling us."

As I've been saying; getting problem players causes a rift and doubt in the locker room about your coach and FO, especially one that has been so strict on this kind of stuff.

With that said though, I don't think that this is Brandon Marshall. I think there are a few players in the locker room currently that share the same sentiments that the quoted player does, but for the most part, I think they know what the thinking process was with this decision.

What's the difference where he loses his cool? Whether on the field or off, Incognito still has caused his team yards and downs and has missed games due to on-the-field issues. Honestly, I rather have a guy like Marshall who may have some off the field issues but performs regularly on the field.

Not comparing the two signings, I know Marshall would cost a high pick and a massive contract, but there is something to be said about the hypocrisy displayed by some fans who seem to be pumped about Incognito's issues, calling him a tough guy and all that. Yet Marshall gets a completely different angle...it's not fair.

Like another poster said, our defensive anchor was just suspended for 8 weeks due to taking performance enhancers, one of our betters dbs got a DUI, and we have a several others who just got done dealing with legal issues.

This idea that we have a squeaky clean, disciplined team that could be ruined by one "cancer" is so over-played (thank you ESPN and Terrell Owens), and at the same time some players, like Incognito, get a pass as just being tough guys where other players are written off completely as locker room "cancers".

This is the NFL, and these are professionals. If they can't handle one guy in the locker room because of his controversial past then we have some serious character issues on this team.

Marshall could be handled just as easily as Incognito or anyone else in that vein.

Fonzy: I agree with some of your logic. These guys are professionals and whoever signs Brandon Marshall, go ahead and offer him the big jack he deserves from his production, BUT, build a clause into his contract that allows a team to not pay a certain amount based on him staying out of trouble.

I say take a chance and sign Marshall, but protect the investment by making him be fully committed to being a model citizen both on and off the field.

He would be well worth offering some kind of trade package and maybe, just maybe, Denver will be willing to take less than a first round pick.

but there is something to be said about the hypocrisy displayed by some fans who seem to be pumped about Incognito's issues, calling him a tough guy and all that. Yet Marshall gets a completely different angle...it's not fair.

At least Incognito is being a real man and beating up on other men.... not on his girlfriend.

If Incognito fails, or becomes a total pain in the @$$ we cut him. Basically no loss. If we trade for Marshall we lose a 1st rounder. I personally take the chance on Incognito hoping I get a decent lineman but with the understanding that if he screws up we don't play him or cut him. I don't take that chance with Marshall because I have more to lose.

but there is something to be said about the hypocrisy displayed by some fans who seem to be pumped about Incognito's issues, calling him a tough guy and all that. Yet Marshall gets a completely different angle...it's not fair.

At least Incognito is being a real man and beating up on other men.... not on his girlfriend.

Again, Im not defending Marshall for his off the field conduct or making excuses for it. But if Incognito was making plays on the field like a Brandon Marshall, ESPN and everyone else would put him in the same category. Ironically, it's Incognito's lack of play-making ability that makes his on the field issues seem "tough", like a player who is eager to get better rather than an undisciplined player who has had repeated chances to act right on the field...bogus.

As for the risk factor, do you honestly think there is more risk in signing Brandon Marshall?? Financially there may be, and i agree that we need to put a clause in his contract and pressure him to stay out of trouble if we sign him, but Incognito carries the same risk in terms of losing playing time and erasing positive yardage (I know he's more of a "man" for not beating up his gf instead of other football players, but on the field this will not be a factor in your anger if he acts out with the Phins). At the same time, he doesn't possess the potential reward that we have SEEN Marshall produce. Incognito, who's history indicates he might very well be a problem at some point for the Dolphins, will be lucky to see the starting line up. In other words, he carries the same risk to be a problem as Brandon Marshall, but no where near the potential for results.

Again, Im not arguing for the signing of Marshall since we signed Incognito (very different contracts), just think its funny that us fans have such double standards. The same people praising Incognito as a tough, Parcells like player for his misconduct are the same people who blasted Crowder when he got in a fight with Matt Light, the same people who complain when another team's player intentionally holds or illegally hits one of our players, etc.

People don't like Brandon Marshall because ESPN and a bunch of talking heads told you not to like Marshall. At some point in our sport-fan careers, we have rooted for lower-class citizens, in the name of our team getting a W, so let's reserve all of this moral judgment. At the end of the day, you will cheer for Marshall in a Phins uniform if he lights it up, and you will blast Incognito if he acts out on the field as a pedestrian Olineman, because at the end of the day, we aren't electing these people to public office.

I don't think most people are forming an opinion about Marshall because of a bunch of talking heads on ESPN. There is other information out there that has been presented.

Quote:

Oct. 31, 2004: Brandon Marshall faced misdemeanor charges of trespass, resisting arrest without violence, disorderly conduct, refusal to obey and assault on an officer in a Halloween arrest his junior year at Central Florida. Charges were dismissed.

April 8, 2005: Marshall was charged with retail theft, a misdemeanor, after police in Orlando, Fla., accused him of trying to return a stolen set of bed sheets at a Burlington Coat Factory. The charge was dropped.

June 17, 2006: Marshall and girlfriend Rasheedah Watley both filed police reports alleging physical abuse by the other in an hours-long fight at Marshall's Orlando apartment. No arrests.

Jan. 24, 2007: Police interviewed Marshall and his father after an argument in an Orlando parking lot. Marshall claimed his father tried to hit him with his car, while the father told police Marshall had shot a gun. Both declined to press charges.

March 18, 2007: Watley told Atlanta police that Marshall had punched her and taken her purse while at a downtown hotel. Marshall left before police arrived and no charges were filed.

March 21, 2007: Police in Palm Beach County, Fla., interviewed Marshall and Watley twice in one night after two loud arguments. Both said the incidents were not physical, and no arrests were made.

March 26, 2007: Marshall was arrested in Highlands Ranch on charges of domestic violence and false imprisonment after another argument. Charges were dropped in May 2007.

June 8, 2007: Two incident reports were filed by Atlanta police. The first was to investigate damage to private property when Watley's friend alleged that Marshall hit her car and then threw a rock at the passenger door, near where Watley was riding. In the other, Watley told police Marshall had cut her in the thigh and punched her in the face. She was taken by ambulance to a local hospital. Marshall was not on the scene, and no charges were filed.

June 30, 2007: Watley told Atlanta police Marshall had punched and choked her at his condo, leaving a bruise on her eye and scratches on her body. He was not on scene, and no charges were filed.

Oct. 22, 2007: Marshall was arrested and charged with DUI after he allegedly drove the wrong way on a one-way street in downtown Denver, hours after a Broncos game. Pleaded guilty to a lesser charge and sentenced to a year's probation in Sept. 2008.

March 4-6, 2008: Three incident reports and one criminal warrant were filed after Watley and Marshall got into a fight at his Atlanta condo. She told police Marshall had punched her in the mouth and eye. Marshall told police his hand was also cut on glass during the incident, which included Watley's two younger sisters. Marshall was arrested March 6 on a misdemeanor battery charge. A misdemeanor battery charge is still pending.

May 21, 2008: An Atlanta police officer was dispatched to Marshall's condo to enforce Watley's temporary restraining order while Watley was there removing her belongings. The officer described Marshall as being cooperative and Watley as argumentative, though Watley told the officer she felt threatened by Marshall and his relatives who were also there.

Quote:In yet another criminal defense case involving a National Football League (NFL) player, an Atlanta jury has found Denver Broncos wide receiver Brandon Marshall to be not guilty of domestic violence battery against his former girlfriend. The verdict was annouced on Friday, August 14, 2009, after just about one hour of jury deliberations.

Marshall had been facing two counts of simple domestic violence battery stemming from a March 4, 2008, argument with his then-girlfriend Rasheedah Watley at the Atlanta condominium the couple shared. After the verdict, Marshall admitted that he was nervous when jury deliberations started, but was confident in the hard work of his criminal defense lawyers.

Quote:Marshall and his current fiancée, Michi Leshase Nogami-Campbell, were involved in a disorderly conduct incident a few months back -- and while the matter was promptly dropped, it absolutely fits the pattern of behavior described by Watley and her parents, who charge the Broncos with trying to make excuses for Marshall's actions.

I honestly think that Marshall is more of a risk. Marshall will cost a high draft pick plus a high salary/signing bonus. When things don't go his way he acts up in practices and has had to be disciplined a number of times in Denver.

If Icognito gets cut because he can't control himself we lose neither a high draft choice or a high salary.

For me the issue is not is he a perfect example of moal fiber, but will his actions more likely help or hurt the Dolphins. Given his pattern of behavior I think that sooner than later Marshall will be in jail if he does not get some help.

I don't see the double standard. I don't see them as anywhere near carrying the same risk.

but there is something to be said about the hypocrisy displayed by some fans who seem to be pumped about Incognito's issues, calling him a tough guy and all that. Yet Marshall gets a completely different angle...it's not fair.

At least Incognito is being a real man and beating up on other men.... not on his girlfriend.

But if Incognito was making plays on the field like a Brandon Marshall, ESPN and everyone else would put him in the same category. Ironically, it's Incognito's lack of play-making ability that makes his on the field issues seem "tough", like a player who is eager to get better rather than an undisciplined player who has had repeated chances to act right on the field...bogus.

Incognito is an OFFENSIVE LINEMAN. They do not get paid to be playmakers. They get paid to rip people's heads off. And according to profootballfocus.com he allowed 1 sack and 4 QB pressures all year while grading out well as both a run blocker and a pass blocker.

Using the argument of one guy being a playmaker versus one guy not being one is silly when comparing a wide receiver to an offensive guard.

What's next, are you going to make a similar comparison with a running back versus a 34 nose tackle?

What's next, are you going to make a similar comparison with a running back versus a 34 nose tackle?

CJ Spiller did have a much better 40 time than Dan Williams.

I understand what an offensive lineman is. My point is that because Incognito is in a position where his name won't get mentioned much in ESPN no matter how well he does (if he even makes the starting line up), his troubles are downplayed because they aren't thrown in your face every five minutes like those of Brandon Marshall, which is what ESPN does in order to boost ratings and make their endless repetition of Sportscenter seem interesting.

Also, Most of what's on that admittedly long list of misconduct by Marshall are a bunch of "no charges were filed" and "there were no arrests". Did you guys read the police reports? Did you talk to Marshall or his girlfriend? Have we not seen plenty of cases where misconduct with athletes is overplayed because of their fame? I'm not giving him a pass, but if you're going to write Marshall off immediately, why not this Incognito guy?

Marshall obviously has issues, but nothing we haven't seen form other athletes who have landed with stable franchises who could get the best out of them. Of all people, Bill Parcells embodies that type of leadership skill. The fact is we need a playmaker at receiver, not a model citizen. It would be great if the NFL were full of Jason Taylors, but we love JT precisely because guys like him are hard to come by and that;s the sad reality of professional sports in this country. If we write off every guy like you guys are doing with Marshall, we will be mssing out on a lot of play makers. We are taking a shot on a troubled Olineman, why not a troubled star receiver?

And I believe ripping heads off would cost the team at least a 15 yard penalty, so no, that's not what Incognito gets paid to do at all.

And I can't understand this risk thing everyone is talking about either..

Sure, financially there is a lot of risk for Ross in signing a Brandon Marshall because of the sheer amount of money involved, but that'ss for Ross and his bloated bank accounts to deal with. In a football, sense there is no real risk:

ABSOLUTE WORST CASE SCENARIO IN SIGNING MARSHALL: We sign him to a big contract, he comes in and goes bananas, gets suspended/acts out/whatever. He gets benched and we go back to our decent receiver line up that can at least get us buy like the last two years., we're left without a second round pick and another year to look for a receiver, which si what will happen anyway if we draft a guy.

BEST CASE SCENARIO: Marshall comes in and gets his act together for Parcells, completely changes the entire team,g ives Chad Henne "a big guy who can run", and we become serious contenders.

And I can't understand this risk thing everyone is talking about either..

Sure, financially there is a lot of risk for Ross in signing a Brandon Marshall because of the sheer amount of money involved, but that'ss for Ross and his bloated bank accounts to deal with. In a football, sense there is no real risk:

ABSOLUTE WORST CASE SCENARIO IN SIGNING MARSHALL: We sign him to a big contract, he comes in and goes bananas, gets suspended/acts out/whatever. He gets benched and we go back to our decent receiver line up that can at least get us buy like the last two years., we're left without a second round pick and another year to look for a receiver, which si what will happen anyway if we draft a guy.

BEST CASE SCENARIO: Marshall comes in and gets his act together for Parcells, completely changes the entire team,g ives Chad Henne "a big guy who can run", and we become serious contenders.

Don't see the risk here, especially from a football standpoint.

So you don't understand the risk of signing a guy to a huge deal and him never seeing the field? Not only do you lose a pick (Denver is asking for a 1st in case you missed it), but you have a ton of money sitting in your cap (and rest assured there will be a salary cap eventually) that could be used for other players.

Maybe you haven't watched football, but that's what offensive linemen are supposed to do to any player who happens to be in their path, just like linebackers do to ball carriers.

Nice try, but we all know that beating up is not what football players do on the field. They might push each other around, but players get ejected for throwing punches, and kicking and tripping are illegal as well. If tackling someone is considered beating someone up, then I guess a running hug from your wife is domestic abuse.

Killing them, going to war, mano y mano, fighting in the trenches, are a few of the characterizations that are commonly used to refer to football play, bombs are thrown, chop blocks are delivered, crackback blocks are given, ganging up on tackles, shotgun formations, coaches and fans want their teams to play smash mouth football.

Given the frequent use of these kinds of terms and the violent nature of the game when someone speaks of beating up someone in a football context is it really that hard to figure out what they are refering to?

When I played football in high school (mostly right guard) if my coach would have told me that I really beat up the guy across from me it would be a compliment. The guys who did not like to "fight in the trenches" usually sat on the sidelines. Bruises, blood and the ocassional broken bone were expected parts of the game.

Killing them, going to war, mano y mano, fighting in the trenches, are a few of the characterizations that are commonly used to refer to football play, bombs are thrown, chop blocks are delivered, crackback blocks are given, ganging up on tackles, shotgun formations, coaches and fans want their teams to play smash mouth football.

Given the frequent use of these kinds of terms and the violent nature of the game when someone speaks of beating up someone in a football context is it really that hard to figure out what they are refering to?

When I played football in high school (mostly right guard) if my coach would have told me that I really beat up the guy across from me it would be a compliment. The guys who did not like to "fight in the trenches" usually sat on the sidelines. Bruises, blood and the ocassional broken bone were expected parts of the game.

There are a number of different ways I could go here but I will try and reign myself in and say this, real men don't make a habit of beating up women. Is that plain enough? In the context of this thread Incognito acts violently in a place where violence is the norm. I don't see why you are having such a problem with this? Violence in a relationship between men and women should not be the norm.

Nice try, but we all know that beating up is not what football players do on the field.

You totally missed the point of what I was originally saying because you're being anal retentive about semantics.

Right over your head...

Saying that beating men up is what real men do is asinine no matter what way you look at it.

Again you're missing the point and completely dragging the thread down while you do.

The comparison was more directed at Brandon Marshall (and you knew that, you just want to be a smartass) who has a habit of beating up his girlfriend. Does it make sense now? Or have you still not recovered from running backwards naked through an Iowa cornfield?

_________________

Last edited by Rich on Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:25 am, edited 2 times in total.

I have to admit that I did not know Denver was asking for a first. Like thing I saw was a thread saying he could be had with a 2nd round pick. I'll definitely agree our 12th pick is too high considering our needs on defense.

What Im saying is Marshall may be a risk financially, but I really doubt that he never sees the field. In a football sense it can work. Dont see whats any less risky about Incognito, since he has the same chances of missing playing time/getting penalties and such.

What Im saying is Marshall may be a risk financially, but I really doubt that he never sees the field. In a football sense it can work. Dont see whats any less risky about Incognito, since he has the same chances of missing playing time/getting penalties and such.

But you can't extract the financial risk from the equation.

If I could have Marshall for the same contract as Incognito and without giving up a pick, I don't think twice.

What Im saying is Marshall may be a risk financially, but I really doubt that he never sees the field. In a football sense it can work. Dont see whats any less risky about Incognito, since he has the same chances of missing playing time/getting penalties and such.

But you can't extract the financial risk from the equation.

If I could have Marshall for the same contract as Incognito and without giving up a pick, I don't think twice.

To me, it's not about the money. It's about the message that it send to the locker room and the potential cancer he is.

There are a number of different ways I could go here but I will try and reign myself in and say this, real men don't make a habit of beating up women. Is that plain enough? In the context of this thread Incognito acts violently in a place where violence is the norm. I don't see why you are having such a problem with this? Violence in a relationship between men and women should not be the norm.

I'm not having trouble with the idea that men shouldn't beat up women. I do have a problem with the notion that real men beat up other men. I get where he was going with it, but it's completely false.

This may explain why you continue having trouble with this concept of "real men".

Is that why you continue to belittle me? Because you know when to drop it? I know what a real man is, and that is why I don't believe beating someone (male or female) up makes a real man. Incognito is not a real man because he can't control himself.

What Im saying is Marshall may be a risk financially, but I really doubt that he never sees the field. In a football sense it can work. Dont see whats any less risky about Incognito, since he has the same chances of missing playing time/getting penalties and such.

But you can't extract the financial risk from the equation.

If I could have Marshall for the same contract as Incognito and without giving up a pick, I don't think twice.

To me, it's not about the money. It's about the message that it send to the locker room and the potential cancer he is.

Gotta agree with Rich, if anything it's about the money. Obviously Parcells and Co. are not afraid to take a chance on a troubled player if the price is right, as we saw with the Incognito signing.

Incognito is not Brandon Marshall. His "troubles" involve a fine and the occasional suspension from the NFL. Marshall's "troubles" involve getting arrested, being shot at after instigating the situation, several law suits, etc.

What kind of message would bringing in a guy like Marshall send to the guys in the lockerroom? Incognito has not had any off the field issues or run in's with the law since freshman year of College. Marshall is in the news for domestic violence on a monthly basis it seems.