Hello everyone, I wanted to find out the opinions that some of you may have of junior blackbelts.Even though I am a teenager I am not yet the age to test for adult blackbelt last year I tested for my Junior blackbelt and I am now currently the rank of Jun-shodon. I know that some of you feel that in order for someone to become a blackbelt they have to show the knowledge, undestanding, curtosy and respect of a adult karateka. I feel that if a teenager has these qualities they sould have the chance to become a junior blackbelt, I also feel that no matter what, once the student reaches 16 they should have to re-test for adult shodon. Feel free to disagree with me, I am just interested in your opinion! *ELIZABETH*

I agree with you. I don't know why this is even subject for debate. I think most of the people who don't believe in junior black belts have not had the opportunity to train with junior black belts. I have had that pleasure. Earning a junior black belt for a child is a major accomplishment. It has the effect of increasing the child's confidence in thier karate and themselves. They in turn serve as role models in thier dojo, which has a tremendous effect on the motivation of junior students in the children's program.(And, on the adults!- its great to see kids really get into thier art and start to show the attributes of a true adult black belt.) The virtues you mentioned are very important, and the junior black belts in my dojo have them and it is obvious to everyone they interact with. I encourage those who detract from the idea of a junior black belt program to visit a dojo that has one. I think you will be pleasantly suprised!

I'll bite and be the scrooge of this thread so that we can have a discussion.

If the kid has the skills and maturity. If not, then no, heck no, no way.

I have seen junior black belts who cannot hang. And I am not afraid of getting beaten up by a teenager--I've had a teenager knock me down before, no big deal. I have also shamed more than my share of underage black belts. The problem with it is the same problem that exists in other areas of life: some of the idiots make the okay people look bad.

Folks, there are 13, 14 and 15 year old black belts who cannot fight (and black belt adults for that matter), or who underestimate the adage that with age comes treachery. Some of these kids have really good technique, but they cannot:

1) Think2) Control their temper (thus will wail on an adult when they should be pushing the adult to try harder in a sempi/kohai way)3) Adapt (you can see the look on their face)4) Accept a defeat with GRACE and not hostility5) Realize that despite their training a big strong dude in their 20's is going to give them some trouble in a fight even if he has little or know training because he is in his prime

I've also heard too many stories of single digit black belts crying when they lose a tournament or getting their butts kicked in and out of the ring because they ran into a kid who is just plain tough.

The junior black belt can be great for some, but for others, it inflates their egos and gives them a false sense of confidence. That's why I think sixteen or older is a good age as a rule, maybe a little lower for the exceptional, RARE individuals. If some ADULTS are tripping just because they have rank, you KNOW some children are doing that and worse.

Emotionally I understand your viewpoint, if someone has the same maturity, psychologically-emotionally then this gets tricky.

However by nature of that age, purely because one IS that age, you cannot have the life experiences of the ~elder~ <wg> classmates. Those experiences, having been through the challenges the heartbreaks, the failures, (and yes I choose the negative aspects for a reason) which growing older provides... that is the person who you want to have with these skills and abilities.

I don't want a 6,8,10,15 year old child to have those kinds of experiences. Perhaps its unfair or naive but it is my belief. They are children, not little adults, not yet anyway. I frankly do not want young children seriously considering matters in the ways which adults do, they are not adults YET.

Though unpopular, I question aloud the wisdom of having such ranking. It is avoidable, and IMHV (Fwiw) much like avoiding places which could/will be trouble, and I contend it is wiser to avoid situatins where anyone might remotely confuse the issue as to whether, a child is capable of representation of the foundational skills, views and philosophies an art. Be that with words, explaining in detail the what and why THEY practice, what their art is ABOUT to someone who knows (or misunderstands) littleis a skill which is required. Children cannot, because of their age.

Like many "rites of passage" children and teenagers will experience, this is one I contend is unwise to offer. Just as it could been seen as "unfair" that kids must wait to be able to learn to drive at a certain age, this too could well be equally "unfair" <gentle shrug>.

Its my opinion, happy to defend it... or explain it more clearly, if desired...

Elizabeth wrote:Hello everyone, I wanted to find out the opinions that some of you may have of junior blackbelts.Even though I am a teenager I am not yet the age to test for adult blackbelt last year I tested for my Junior blackbelt and I am now currently the rank of Jun-shodon. I know that some of you feel that in order for someone to become a blackbelt they have to show the knowledge, undestanding, curtosy and respect of a adult karateka. I feel that if a teenager has these qualities they sould have the chance to become a junior blackbelt, I also feel that no matter what, once the student reaches 16 they should have to re-test for adult shodon. Feel free to disagree with me, I am just interested in your opinion! *ELIZABETH*

I do not have a junior blackbelt as of now, but i did have one for quite a few years. I believe that people in the dojo gave me the respect i deserved, but i believe that if someone has the knowledge, understanding, curtosy and respect of an adult karateka AND they have spent the time in the dojo their instructor will see this and promote them accordingly.

And for you to point this out, just remember that it's not your belt that makes you good, it's you that makes you good. Never lose sight of that.

I think that if a junior black belt has the maturity and the passion to become the best. And to practice humility towards others... They SHOULD be allowed to have a black belt...

Yes, I know everyone has seen those Junior Black-belts who goof off and don't know when / when not to behave...
THOSE Jr. Black belts shouldn't have the privilege of getting a black belt until they're 16 (or the req'd age)

But then again, one of my best friends is a jr. black belt, He is 9 years old and he knows that at karate, is not a time to goof off. And because he is 9 years old, some [older] shodan-ho & older [kyu] grades do not treat him with the respect he deserves... I can tell you that he is more humble than half our students there and is a very polite kid... Everytime he gives an order when he is teaching class, other kids say "Where is sensei?","You're not teaching class!".... then I always have to come in and say that "His belt is higher than yours, treat him with respect and treat him as you would if I or Sensei was teaching class!"

I'm going to be bold and say that the majority of adults do not beleive that kids and young teenagers can have the same understanding of karate that they do.

And they are right.

If you are 14 years old, would you expect a 10 year old to understand as much as you do?

If you are 10 years old, would you expect a 6 year old to understand as much as you do?

With age comes wisdom (hopefully), or atleast more experiences and time for reflection on those experiences.

A Jr. Black Belt should reflect a different accomplishment than an Adult Shodan Black Belt.

A Jr. Black Belt should mean that the individual has demonstrated the skills, knowledge and virtues of a Martial Artist, a foundation. This foundation will be tested in life over and over again as you grow older. The age of 16 is when most Adults feel that a human individual has experienced enough of life - has been tested enough in life - to be awarded such a recognition as Shodan.

Shodan and/or Jr. Black Belt is not an end though. It merely states that you have at last found the mountain that needs to be climbed.

P.S.

In my experience, a belt rank for a student can be seen and felt as an accomplishment and a goal. A way of showing that they are making progress to themselves and to others.

To an instructor though, these ranks mean little. They are just a way of keeping track of where you are in your training.