The Cool Justice Report exposes wrongdoing in the politically-charged worlds of cops and courts. It runs compelling stories of general interest and boxing, literary and political items, as well as selected poems and pieces of fiction. email: tntcomm82@cs.com -- Twitter@cooljustice --
A 2nd collection of columns, 'more COOL JUSTICE,' http://morecooljustice.com/ followed 'Law & Justice in Everyday Life.'

Friday, February 01, 2008

Views On Hillary - Obama Debate

Live Blogging Last Night At Daily Koshttp://www.dailykos.com/

Debate Open Thread #11by DHinMIThu Jan 31, 2008 at 06:32:19 PM PST

Clinton asked, in the context of "judgment," why she didn't vote for the Levin amendment to tie the AUMF to the findings of the UN weapons inspectors. This is Clinton's Achilles' heel, and after a comment about not wanting to cede authority to the UN--please, that's sooooo rightwing radio circa 1993--she pivots around to try to differentiate herself from the Republicans.

Wolfie gives Obama an opportunity to respond, but puts it in the context of Petreus' claims that we've had progress in Iraq. Obama makes the correct point that there's been almost no political progress, so even though we're happy with the lessened violence, that we're not happy with the lack of political progress. Then he says it's about judgment, and he thinks he'd be the strongest nominee on national security, because he's always been right in opposing the war in Iraq.

* Permalink ::* Discuss (118 comments)

Debate Open Thread #10by DHinMIThu Jan 31, 2008 at 06:25:23 PM PST

Talking about Iraq. Obama pointing out the differences between his position on setting a date certain with Clinton's more ambiguous position, but still pointing out that it's a difference between Dems and Repubs.

Clinton invokes the endorsement of Maxine Waters, a convener of the Out of Iraq Caucus in Congress.

This is a case where both have legitimate points. Obama is correct that we need to get the hell out of the country. Clinton is correct that when we leave, that it could be very difficult for the surrounding countries. Again, like the immigration issue, this isn't an easy issue, and whoever wins the nomination will have a difficult time with a difficult issue. No question we need to get out, but as the adage goes, the devil is in the details.

[Update: It WAS more than 200 comments every 10 minutes. Now it's more than 300. Remember to READ some of them, too. ;) - MB.]

Lot of questions about change. Clinton says it would be a great change to have a woman as President. Obama could have said it would be great to have an African-American, a point some guy made the other day.

Q: "I'm 38 and I've never had an election where one of the choices hasn't been either a Bush or a Clinton. How is it change if those two families keep appearing on the ballot."

Clinton talks about Bill's record, then says something like it takes a Clinton to clean up after a Bush.

BTW, you guys are posting over 200 comments per 10 minutes.

* Permalink ::* Discuss (477 comments)

Debate Open Thread #8by DHinMIThu Jan 31, 2008 at 06:07:55 PM PST

"Why should you be elected if you haven't run a business?"

STOOOPID question. Governance is NOT profit-seeking. Accountability to a board, several of whom the CEO may have recruited, is not like being accountable to the American people.

Clinton rejected the premise, which was exactly the thing to do. Then Obama pointed out that Mitt Romney hasn't gotten a very good return on his investment so far. Good answers from both.

* Permalink ::* Discuss (401 comments)

Debate Open Thread #7by DHinMIThu Jan 31, 2008 at 05:59:07 PM PST

Both have been making what appear to be transparent appeals to Edwards. We expected that. But Obama just invoked Richardson, whose endorsement would be a big prize to either of them.

Obama pointed out Clinton's changes on drivers licenses to illegal immigrants but said it illustrated how difficult the issue is. Clinton pointed out that while she has changed her position on drivers licenses since that earlier debate, that in that debate Obama didn't have an answer, and used the example to underscore how difficult an issue immigration is. Nice answers by both candidates, and good job by both to emphasize that they are actually close on the issue while their positions are far from the divisive positions of the Republicans.

This was maybe the best moment of the debate so far, as they pointed out substantive differences between them, did it in a firm but respectful way, used the example to point out that the problem doesn't have an easy answer--oh, if politicians did that more often!--and finally used it as an opportunity to differentiate the small differences within the Democratic tent compared to the huge differences between Democrats and nativists Republicans.

* Permalink ::* Discuss (431 comments)

Debate Open Thread #6by DHinMIThu Jan 31, 2008 at 05:50:42 PM PST

Interesting difference in how they answered the immigration question and how immigration affects job losses. Obama emphasized that he won't scapegoat, a position that would be popular with Latinos. Clinton emphasized that there are job losses caused by illegal immigration, which should appeal more to working class white voters, especially in the Midwest. Both are correct, but it's an interesting difference in emphasis.

* Permalink ::* Discuss (360 comments)

Debate Open Thread #5by DHinMIThu Jan 31, 2008 at 05:40:59 PM PST

A lot of health care wonkery so far. Substantive stuff. And nothing like the personal nastiness we saw last night from the Republicans.

Both candidates didn't back down on the "won't you be accused of tax-and-spend liberals" question regarding their plans to pay for health care by rolling back the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest taxpayers.

* Permalink ::* Discuss (412 comments)

Debate Open Thread #4by DHinMIThu Jan 31, 2008 at 05:29:29 PM PST

Blitzer asked them the differences between the two. There are some substantive differences, but the bigger point that's important to remember: they're actually close on most issues, and the difference between them are minuscule compared to the differences between Clinton or Obama and any of the Republicans.

* Permalink ::* Discuss (444 comments)

Debate Open Thread #3by DHinMIThu Jan 31, 2008 at 05:20:03 PM PST

TiVo the Celtics and Mavericks. The debate is on!

By the way, anyone else notice that the print or local journalists who are usually brought in to supplement the network people are almost always better than the network anchors?

The crowd at last night's Republican debate was funereal. This crowd is pumped.

* Permalink ::* Discuss (389 comments)

Debate Open Thread #1by DHinMIThu Jan 31, 2008 at 04:48:30 PM PST

Yup, there are almost as many Presidential debates as there are boring mid-season NBA games. But tonight's debate on CNN--it starts at 8:00 PM EST--is the first time since 2000 where just two candidates will be on stage. Even when it was clear in 2004 that John Kerry probably had the nomination wrapped up and that his only serious competition was John Edwards, Dennis Kucinich and Al Sharpton were still hangin' around. But tonight, from California, we will see the first one-on-one debate between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama.

OK teams, practice good sportsmanship, and let's have a clean open thread.

* Permalink ::* Discuss (452 comments)

&

Hillary, Obama Get a RoomCandidates Bow to Request of Debate Viewers

By ANDY BOROWITZwww.borowitzreport.com

After two hours of a televised debate that many pundits characterized as a love-fest, Democratic presidential candidates Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton confirmed today that they have gotten a room.

Mr. Obama and Mrs. Clinton secured a room at the Hollywood Roosevelt Hotel, conveniently located near the Kodak Theater where the CNN debate took place.

The extraordinary announcement came on the heels of a request made by millions of television viewers, who emailed CNN last night urging the Democratic rivals to get a room.

In a joint statement released by Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Obama this morning, the two presidential contenders said, “We have heard the voters loud and clear, asking us to get a room – and we have gotten that room.”

After the couple released a photo of themselves in fluffy white hotel bathrobes, there was a palpable sense of relief in Democratic circles that the two senators had in fact gotten a room.

“It was a little uncomfortable watching the two of them up there together, barely keeping their hands off each other,” said DNC chairman Howard Dean. “The sexual tension was so thick you could cut it with a knife.”

As news spread of the candidates’ decision to get a room, pundits speculated about what role former President Bill Clinton might play in such a room.

“I don’t see him playing a role there,” said Hillary biographer Carl Bernstein. “I think Bill Clinton respects the right of someone to get a room.”

Elsewhere, advisors to G.O.P frontrunner John McCain have urged him to stop speaking in that spooky voice.

About Me

andy thibault'more COOL JUSTICE' Kindle 8-10-14...Recipient, Ct Council on FOI's
Stephen Collins Memorial Award for 'Many Contributions To The Cause Of
Open & Accountable Government & A Free & Vigorous Press In
Ct' ...Cool Justice is the column popularized by Law & Justice In
Everyday Life. Inspired by 'justice stories' in The NY Daily News &
work of writers including Breslin, Buchanan, Ellroy, Hammett, Zinn &
Chandler. Thibault, semi-retired, is a cancer survivor. Former writing
professor & mentor MFA program at Western CT State University &
also taught at NW CT Community College & U of Hartford. He works
occasionally as a private investigator Thibault delivered the 2004 Pew
Memorial Lecture In Journalism at Widener University, Chester, Pa. He
chaired a fund that awarded more than $215k, the CT Young Writers Trust.
Thibault also worked as a pro boxing judge & as a consulting editor
for the literary journal CT Review. Taught a 5-session seminar on state
& federal FOI laws for the RCNewsroomCafe. In March 2012 he began
working part-time as a contributing editor for Journal Register
publications, focusing on investigative projects & serving as a
writing coach & mentor.