We are not God, we are not infallible, we can't be sure if one is guilty or not and if he regrets enough to forgive him. But for me the main problem is how to measure crimes and faults? I think it is so subjective, sometimes we get involved in case so emotionally...we are people only :?

First of all, you are right by saying that we are not God, we are just people. As people we are not infallible.

Second of all,

Mamuta wrote:
We can't be sure if one is guilty or not

.

That's why serious investigations are needed to do so that we will not make mistakes in giving sentences to the suspects.

Fine, jail, or death sentences are basically the same. They are all punishment.

If we don't agree with the death penalty, why we should agree with fine and jail sentences?

What's the difference? They are all punishment in different forms.

Mamuta wrote:... and if he regrets enough to forgive him.

Just because somebody regrets about the crime he did then automatically we can forget and forgive him. Suppose there is somebody who killed ten people in a bank robbery, then he regreted it. Should we pardon him? What about the family of the ten dead people? We don't have to consider their feelings? Where's the justice?

bambang wrote:Suppose there is somebody who killed ten people in a bank robbery, then he regreted it. Should we pardon him? What about the family of the ten dead people? We don't have to consider their feelings? Where's the justice?

It's not so simple: just imagine a drunk driver who killed ten people in an accident. It is certain he will regret after all - do you want to sentence him to death? Are these two situations similiar? From the other hand: is live of ten people more important then live of eight people for example? Where is the limit?
I must admit that answering such questions is too difficult for me. Sometimes the justice should be ruthless and I agree with it but with very heavy heart... :?

Bambang wrote:Suppose there is somebody who killed ten people in a bank robbery, then he regreted it. Should we pardon him? What about the family of the ten dead people? We don't have to consider their feelings? Where's the justice?

Mamuta wrote:It's not so simple: just imagine a drunk driver who killed ten people in an accident. It is certain he will regret after all - do you want to sentence him to death?

First of all, I am not focusing on the death penalty. My concern is that the man must be punished. Whatever the punishment, it depends on the court verdict. It could be either a jail sentence or death penalty.

He is a killer. He has killed ten innocent people. Killing is killing. Who asked him to get drunk. Being drunk is not an excuse to have killed ten innocent people in a bank robbery.

He has two cases.
First, a bank robbery case.
Second, a killing case.

Pardon him, my dear?
Will you?

Mamuta wrote:is live of ten people more important then live of eight people

My dear, it's not about statistics. It's about the live of people. Everybody is equal. Every life is worthy.

Mamuta wrote:I agree with it but with very heavy heart...

Are you saying that it's very hard for you to punish the wrong doers, the criminals, the killers? Just let them free? We don't have the right to punish them? It's God's business?

Yes, I believe the death penalty because our religion as stated in the Holy Quran that penalty killer is murder where Allah says in the Koran and in your life to you, O ye men. As we say in our daily lives eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. So goes the killers in shedding the blood of innocent people.