SuperAerie, power tactics for the C/M *spoilers*

This is a discussion to share our tips and points of view about the power use of Aerie and the multiclass Cleric Mages. I think that is a really special multiclass and the synergy of the 2 classes, not only of the arcane and divine magic, has some really interesting uses.So please don't tell that you use her to make undeads explode, or to cast Chaotic Commands on your tank, those are things that every Cleric can do. Same for Time Stop, Improved Alacrity and spamming ADHW, every mage can. Those are true things, but not related to this topic, things like clerical spells in sequencers and contingiences are, as only a C/M can do it.

In this first post I will not give any of my "personal recipes", just point out some of the peculiarities of the C/M.Using and mixing arcane and divine magic is the first and more self evident one, but there is a lot more.One is the clerical THACO table. Clerics share the same table of rogues, that caps at 6 (fighters at 0 and mages at 10).An other is that both Mages ans Clerics have the best castable only on self buffs. The mage has the better protection ones, like Stoneskin, PFMW, SI, Spell Shield, and the Cleric has the better boost ones, like DUHM and Righteous Magic. Only the C/M can benefit of both.Good THACO, boosted with clerical buffs, in a character protected with mage only ones can make an effective fighter, even if he lack of the APR that a proper fighter have. And C/M has also ways to boost his APR, both cheesy (I think in EE some of them are now nerfed, and not cheesy ones.Those ingredients can used, from early game to the end, to cook some very tasty recipes, up to AFAIK something like 400dmg x round mlee.

I will post my recipes in the next future, I hope in a short time, but I have some RL problems at this moment so I am not sure when.Feel free to post your ones, I am really interested as I love to have the whiny one in my parties.I hope that this discussion can become a good reference in how use effectively the C/M, something that you can link when someone say that Aerie is just a weak, slow leveling, not useful toon.

Comments

Toss Strength and DuHM into a Minor Sequencer for guaranteed high STR after polymorphing. Alternately, put Spiritual Weapon on the Sequencer to cheese the interaction between alternate forms and summoned weapons. Sometimes I'll also build a Minor Sequencer with Bless and Chant to speed up buffing.

Righteous Magic with ogre form via Polymorph Self. The ogre's morningstar does 4d6 damage, which means it benefits a lot from the maximum damage effect of RM.

Spell Sequencer with Animate Dead x3. It's a very quick way of bringing out a small army.

Spell Trigger with Mass Cure x3. Basically fixes all HP problems.

Chain Contingency with Gate x3, plus Spell Sequencer with Haste, Protection from Evil 10' Radius, and Chant. You now have three hasted Pit Fiends which will attack the enemy all at once, without fighting you or each other.

Heal in Contingency. Although a properly buffed cleric/mage shouldn't be taking damage at all.

Minor Sequencer with Bless and Chant. Both spells have a significant impact, but suffer from a large casting time. Minor Sequencer reduces that to 0.

Protection from Lightning allows a cleric/mage to freely use Wands of Lightning and Lightning Bolts without worrying about electrocuting him or herself (no longer relevant with EE-style lightning bolts).

Clerics can wear helms and use shields. This means a mage that can use Vhailor's Helm as well as the Shield of Balduran and the Reflection Shield. A mage can't easily achieve the defenses of the latter two.

Chaotic Commands, Death Ward, and Remove Fear obviate the need for certain Spell Immunity spells, allowing a cleric/mage to use those level 5 spell slots elsewhere.

The Robe of Vecna and Amulet of Power allow for an instantly cast Implosion, which grants a free hit from Harm. This also speeds up healing spells, which especially need strong speed factors.

The dual welding Aerie.Both mages and clerics have 1 APR get no bonuses level or proficiencies, they can aso put only 1 pip in DW so have a penalization of -2 MH and -4 OH. Usually a mage can not dual weld effectively, low THACO and the penalization. A cleric can do it, better natural THACO and he can easily have 25 STR (+7 THACO +14dmg). There are 3 spells he can use.

Holy Power SET strength of 18/00 (even if it is normally higher),adjust the THAC0 to that of a fighter of same level and give additional hitpoint. if used is always the first casted or first in the sequencer as he set STR.

Righteous Magic give 1 temporary hitpoint per level,1 temporary point of strengthevery 3 level of priest (up to 24), and make the priest inflict maximumdamage with his/her weapon if attack succeeds.

DUHM Raises Strength, Constitution & Dexterity by 1 point for every 3 levels, has to be casted after the others as is the only one that let go up to 25 STR. I usually use only the last 2.Aerie with 25 STR and 2 good weapons hit quite often, 4 APR with IH, even with the OH as she get penalization of 4 but STR and weapon bonuses of 10-12 assuming a +3-+5 weapon, on top of Clerical THACO. With maxed dmg roll.

As every other cleric can do, is not specific to C/M. But try with Viconia, she can use armor for better AC, but without shield and low HP is not enough. A mage can not hit often but can make himself untouchable, Stoneskin, PFMW and so on, and can protect himself from debuff with Spell shield or SI. A C/M can do both the things and add to the mix the Fire Shields and the blade barrier for additional damage to the enemies. An untouchable tank that hit hard and often and give damage also when is hitted (but not damaged).

Depending on how much sequencers and contingiences she want to use she can self buff in a short time, if you know that the next day you will face a situation where is useful to use her in mlee you can prepare the whole combination and rest (if you have the sequencers and contingiences still not used) and have her buffed for the battle and with the full spellbook memorized.

Against a hard hitting enemy like a dragon is useful to have her full buffed and with a bunch of Spell shields memorized, or SI Abiuration on, tanking and damaging, she can kill the beast alone, but your fighters ranged or flank attacking, outside of the wing buffet area help a lot. Use hasted summons to keep the Dragon busy when she is pushed away, but not damaged, by the buffet, and send them away, safe from his damage and Death Spell, when she close the distance. Protect her from the Breath, AoP against a lev draining one, 100% fire resistance against a red Dragon and so on.

Very important: when you buff someone with many buffs always check their duration and start with the longer lasting ones (usually the ones whose duration is in turns and not in rounds) trying to not overkill. They have to last the whole battle.....And have some of the very short lasting ones, like PFMW, ready to recast as they expire. PFMW and the mantles last only 4 round, with a couple, casting the first as the enemy close distance, you have 8 rounds of protection, enough to win almost every battle with and effective and well used party.

For lesser enemies usually only RM and/or DUHM are enough, with the needed protection ones, Stoneskin (Is wise to have it on all the time as is long lasting), Mantle or PFMW. And maybe one single Fire shield.

If you have time to prepare the battle and she is high level she can cast Simulacrum, the clone will be less buffed, as can not use sequencers to do it fast, but will be enough protected and with at least IH, RM and DUHM active, so he will hit often and hard. Other useful 4 APR. Simulacrum is immune to True Sight, but not to Dispell Magic, he can protect himself with SI Abiuration.

I usually check which sequencers are not used before the rest and fill them with combat buffing spells if I don't need them for other uses. A couple of free bonus buffs is always useful.

This is for me the not polymorphed mlee SuperAerie.@Kaigen , @Wowo, and @semiticgod wrote on the polymorphed one, I will tell something more, up to 400 dmg x round.Obviously the spider form works very well in combination with a couple of Webs and a couple of Spider Spawns.

Ah, Cleric/Mages, the only reason left to play Half Elves. At least until someone releases Druid/Mages and I play nothing else ever.

It looks like most of the combinations have already been covered, except for a few personal favourites.

"The Handshake": Chain Contingency: See Enemy: Implosion x3. 60D6 damage, saves for half, ignores MR. You can cast this, rest, then cast it again as soon as it triggers to drop all six Implosions on whatever unfortunate boss happens to have said hello."Dragon Trolling": Spell Trigger: Bark Skin, Magic Resistance, Lower Resistance."Save or suck": Spell Trigger: Doom, Greater Malaison, Glitterdust. The classic -10 to saves if they fail their -6 save penalty against Glitterdust. Also comes in damage version with Holy Smite."Not even then": Contingency: When Helpless: Remove Paralysis - Very simple, but purges pretty much anything that somehow makes it through your defences."Gatling Spider": Polymorph Self: Sword Spider.Minor Spell Sequencer: DUHM + Shocking Grasp.Spell Trigger: Tenser's Transformation, Improved Haste, Righteous Magic.Throw the pebble to instantly clear your weapon slot.Proceed to tear up everything and everyone with the Erinne Sling with +2 infinite bullet pouch at 8 APR and 25 Strength. 5+2+5+2+14 = 28 x 8 / 224 ranged damage per round (or be melee and just use the Flail of Ages +4 and offhand Crom Faeyr for 10 APR melee).

"I have Cleric THAC0": Black Blade of Disaster. Yeah, not exactly a combo, per se, but yeah, combine it with regular haste/Righteous Magic/Tenser's Transformation = 29 damage every hit before strength, twice per round, and with Save or suck active, save at -6 or disentegrate plus % drain. Tenser's also doubles the Righteous Magic HP, just in case you're feeling the need to be even more immortal.

"Save or suck": Spell Trigger: Doom, Greater Malaison, Glitterdust. The classic -10 to saves if they fail their -6 save penalty against Glitterdust.

I also was convinced of this but recently I have been corrected.Sadly seems that Blindness give a -4 on saves.... only in the spell description.But in sot implemented in the game. Still the blindness itself and the other penalties work and are useful, but a -10 on saves would have been wonderful.

Blindness is never supposed to apply a penalty to saves. Never has, never was, never says. It is supposed to give -4 to hit and -4 to AC. But you need ToBex to enable that since vanilla blindness (mistakenly) just gives -10 to hit and no AC penalty.

Btw, clerics do not use rogue THAC0 table, that's another fallacy. They have their own THAC0 table and it is better than a rogue's, at -2 THAC0 per 3 levels (rogue is -1 per 2 levels).

"Save or suck": Spell Trigger: Doom, Greater Malaison, Glitterdust. The classic -10 to saves if they fail their -6 save penalty against Glitterdust.

I also was convinced of this but recently I have been corrected.Sadly seems that Blindness give a -4 on saves.... only in the spell description.But in sot implemented in the game. Still the blindness itself and the other penalties work and are useful, but a -10 on saves would have been wonderful.

It doesn't?! Damn you confirmation bias, I could have sworn I had better luck getting off save or Xs post dust. Is there a bug report for this? Clearly it needs fixing to... uh... rescue the underpowered Cleric/Mages.

This spell creates a cloud of glittering golden particles within the area of effect. Those in the area must roll a successful saving throw vs. spell or be blinded (-4 penalities to attack rolls, saving throws and Armour Class) for 1D4+1 rounds.

The spell description in game also mentions saving throw penalties, since it was lifted almost verbatim. Don't believe me? Here's c&p'd straight from the original BG2 manual (thank you Sorcerers.net):

GLITTERDUST (CONJURATION/SUMMONING)Range: 10 yardsSaving Throw: SpecialCasting Time: 2 Area of Effect: 10-foot radiusDuration: 4 roundsThis spell creates a cloud of glittering golden particles within the area of effect. Those in the area must roll a successful saving throw vs. spell or be blinded (-4 penalties to attack rolls, saving throws, and Armour Class) for 4 rounds. In addition, all within the area are covered by the dust, which cannot be removed and continues to sparkle until it fades. Note that this reveals invisible creatures. The dust fades in 4 rounds.

Does say. Did say. Should say. Based on the PnP spells which always have said.

But yeah, Clerics totally do have the second best THAC0 progression. Honestly, the Rogues should probably have had Cleric THAC0, and Clerics Rogue THAC0, since one is a primary spellcaster and the other a lowly peon.

@Jaheiras_Witnesshttp://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Glitterdust"Those in the area must roll a successful saving throw vs. spell or be blinded (-4 penalties to attack rolls, saving throws, and Armor Class)"I don't know if the EE description has been corrected, I play not EE, but this is the one of the old not EE (I can not access to the manual or the game now but I am pretty sure it say the same. And also in not EE is not implemented.This thing has misleaded myself, Pantalion and a lot of other people for a long time.

While I appreciate that PnP and BG are different beasts, the description I have provided mentioning save penalties is shown in the Light spell (referenced in the Dancing Lights spell), the Glitterdust spell, the Continual Light spell, the Total Darkness rules, the "Blinding" trick of rogues (an improvised attack to blind a target), and in the Shadow Mage's table showing the penalties of operating in darkness: -1 to saves in moonlight, -3 in starlight, and -4 in total darkness, with increasing AC/To Hit penalties as well.

There are, reading through, two places I can find that don't mention saving throw penalties, one of which is the level 2 spell "Blindness", the other "Cure Blindness and Deafness", with blindness save penalties being printed both before and after the two of them. It's possible that for BG they considered the spells too powerful and intentionally opted for the weaker version (or also possible, just based the Glitterdust effect on the Blind spell they already created, when they're actually different, just like Command and Emotion and Stinking Cloud are all wrongly based on the "Sleep" effect).

Regardless, back onto topic, I suppose the only thing that can be done for Save or Suck is to replace Glitterdust with Chant for a meagre -7 to all saves?

Commenting so this topic will appear in my 'Participated' file. Can't wait to try some of these out. The encounter with Aerie, usually coming so soon after the traumatic escape from Chateau Irenicus, has always had for me a compelling force which makes it extremely hard to drop her.

The idea that I might prefer Jaheira's company [mostly to inherit the Harper Quest] after viewing Khalid's tortured corpse is very strange and unnerving to me. Let her go back to her Druid or Harper friends and heal.

Last night I just dialed up a Cleric -> Mage Dual Class run beginning with BG-TotSC. After reading this I am thinking I should scrap that Character [still in Candlekeep] and create a Cleric/Mage from the get=go.

Also, they finish at a high level of power but they get there really slowly. Not always the best choice for a full BG->ToB run.

Completely disagree.

0 Exp = Level 1 Cleric/Mage - Dominates 90% of Baldur's Gate 1. Command and Sleep are both god tier spells.161k = 7/7 C/M - Level 4 spells in both, dominates TotSC.500k = 9/10 C/M - Level 5 spells in both, enough to dominate most of Chapter 2 since they have a freaking mountain of lower level spells to spam at this point.The worst lag for any multiclass is around this part.1e6 XP = 11/11 C/M - Level 6 spells cleric, Still sitting on level 5 spells Mage. That's still enough to have 3-4 level 5 spells like Cloudkill and Spell Immunity while dropping Aerial Servants, MR ignoring Bolts of Glory, or just getting 2+ more casts of Flame Strike or Holy Smite. This level gets a good number of the power combos listed above already. Plenty of power and still Chapter 2.1.5m = 12/12 C/M - Level 6 spells means Improved Haste, which means Gatling Spider's 8 APR kill combo well in time for Spellhold.SoA Cap = 14/13 C/M - Level 7 Cleric spells, ready to get Implosion or Summon Deva as soon as it hits 3e6 Exp when they also start dropping Mordenkainen's Swords and the like while dishing out the best single target spell in the game.

Yes, they take awhile, as do all multiclass mages, to hit level 8 and 9 spells, but Mages reach "High Level of Power" at around level 9 or 10.