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NO/GS/IND

New Orleans gets:

Darren Collison

Golden State gets:

Chris Kaman
Tyler Hansborough
IND 2012 First
IND 2014 First

Indiana gets:

Monta Ellis
Epke Udoh

I know Monta has been discussed ad naseum, but I think this would be a terrific deal for all parties. I would probably be hard pressed to give up two firsts and Collison for Monta, but a bit of an upgrade from Tyler to Epke would make giving up two firsts worth it. Epke would give us much more flexibility with our front court rotation. Ellis would be a great fit for our offense, IMO.

"Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. … You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

I know Monta has been discussed ad naseum, but I think this would be a terrific deal for all parties. I would probably be hard pressed to give up two firsts and Collison for Monta, but a bit of an upgrade from Tyler to Epke would make giving up two firsts worth it. Epke would give us much more flexibility with our front court rotation. Ellis would be a great fit for our offense, IMO.

Re: NO/GS/IND

So, I see you are coming to grips that Ellis at the point would be a hell of alot better then Collison. Good to see you are changing your mind.

Not changing my mind, the price is much different in this trade than in the Danny Granger trade. If all we have to give up is DC and Tyler to get a better player right now in Monta and a better player in Udoh. Hell yeah you do it. I never said Monta wasn't as good as DC. If this trade was on the table, I would have to take it...Monta isn't the type of PG we have been looking for, let's not kid ourselves. He plays toro defense and his passing abilities are a lot closer to Westbrook than Rubio Or Nash but he can score and if that's the going rate, you gotta take it.

Re: NO/GS/IND

Not changing my mind, the price is much different in this trade than in the Danny Granger trade. If all we have to give up is DC and Tyler to get a better player right now in Monta and a better player in Udoh. Hell yeah you do it. I never said Monta wasn't as good as DC. If this trade was on the table, I would have to take it...Monta isn't the type of PG we have been looking for, let's not kid ourselves. He plays toro defense and his passing abilities are a lot closer to Westbrook than Rubio Or Nash but he can score and if that's the going rate, you gotta take it.

You are to changing your mind. You quoted that he is no point gaurd, now you are accepting him as a point guard...stop double talking.

In the trade I suggested it wasn't just Monte for a Pacers return, it was also Batum which is a hell of a young player at the SF position. I guess you prolly don't know who Batum is or you wouldn't mind my trade I had suggested.

You are to changing your mind. You quoted that he is no point gaurd, now you are excepting him as a point guard...stop double talking.

In the trade I suggested it wasn't just Monte for a Pacers return, it was also Batum which is a hell of a young player at the SF position. I guess you prolly don't know who Batum is or you wouldn't mind my trade I had suggested.

Double talking? What? No I just don't think it's wise to move danny...also I know who Nicholas batum is...well aware...not a fan of him...he is a solid player but adding another wing while giving up your go to scorer while adding what is another go to scorer...remember that will likely not put us over the top...a simple deal like this...I am ALL for...monta isnt a point guard in the truest sense of the word...just going to point out something my grandpa used to say; "the person who thinks they are the smartest guy in the room is usually the loudest most obnoxious and most likely not the smartest because the smartest knows it not wise to flaunt it."
Also that trade has about the same amount of chance of going through and actually happening as I do of growing 12 inches and becoming the backup center for the pacers 7 2...not gonna happen...
God if we could trade AJ price for monta I would love to do it as well...

Re: NO/GS/IND

Double talking? What? No I just don't think it's wise to move danny...also I know who Nicholas batum is...well aware...not a fan of him...he is a solid player but adding another wing while giving up your go to scorer while adding what is another go to scorer...remember that will likely not put us over the top...a simple deal like this...I am ALL for...monta isnt a point guard in the truest sense of the word...just going to point out something my grandpa used to say; "the person who thinks they are the smartest guy in the room is usually the loudest most obnoxious and most likely not the smartest because the smartest knows it not wise to flaunt it."
Also that trade has about the same amount of chance of going through and actually happening as I do of growing 12 inches and becoming the backup center for the pacers 7 2...not gonna happen...
God if we could trade AJ price for monta I would love to do it as well...

Re: NO/GS/IND

NBA Trade machine deems us the loser in that trade with a -3 wins, NO is a -2 wins and GSW jumps a +2 not even counting the picks. Golden State wouldn't have any need for Tyler since Lee would be virtually always be in the game at PF with the addition of Kaman and loss of Monta. Can't see them taking on an asset that would lose its value the second they added it so a 4th team may be needed.

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Re: NO/GS/IND

No. If people don't like Collison as the starting point guard, they sure won't like ellis as a starting point guard, but if they do, they're hypocrites. Udoh has not shown any reason for me to believe he is an upgrade over Hansbrough. He averages 4 points and 3 rebounds in 20 minutes a game; he's not a clear defensive upgrade either.

Re: NO/GS/IND

No. If people don't like Collison as the starting point guard, they sure won't like ellis as a starting point guard, but if they do, they're hypocrites. Udoh has not shown any reason for me to believe he is an upgrade over Hansbrough. He averages 4 points and 3 rebounds in 20 minutes a game; he's not a clear defensive upgrade either.

I'm so glad Larry is making the decisions and not most of you.

I completely agree with you on the PG thing. Even if the perception of the Pure point is back, it truly isn't in the format people remember it being...PG's in these days are dual threats. That isn't exactly a bad thing either. Whats wrong with having a guy who in multiple ways can hurt a team? But lets not look at Monta as anything but what he is, a guy who is just a better, more polished version of DC...
On Udoh, I am a big believer in him, he has the talent to be a starter just needs the time. If we can get him in a straight up swap for Tyler basically, you gotta take it. He is better defensively and offensively he could be a much more complete player once he gets more touches.

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Re: NO/GS/IND

Udoh is not better than Hansbrough.

If we look at Udoh's per 36 numbers he is averaging 8.1 PPG, 6.6 RPG, 1.4 APG, 1.2 SPG and 3.0 BPG. His numbers were extremely similar last year as well. 8.2 PPG, 6.3 RPG, 1.4 APG, 0.8 SPG and 3.0 BPG.

Granted, he had a wrist injury during his rookie season that he could not be over yet but I cannot see a single thing that he does better than Tyler besides blocking shots.

I'd much rather have Bismack Biyombo than Ekpe Udoh.

Also, Monta is a hell of a better scorer than DC but at least DC is looking to set his teammates up. Monta only does it when he has no other option to.

Plus, I'd hate to give so many 1st round picks. We do need draft picks, people.

Re: NO/GS/IND

1. Monta Ellis is a much better facilitator now than he was a few years ago. Plus he has better talent around him which helps.

2. Monta can drop 40 points on any given night. There would be nights where the Pacers are cold and Monta needs to carry the scoring load.

3. Monta is a much better defender than Collison is. He is bigger and stronger than Collison. His steals would allow us to have him pressure the ball handler more which would take more pressure off the team defensively and give us a shorter shot clock to have to defend.

4. Epke Udoh is a much different defender than Tyler. I prefer his defensive fit for us much more than Tyler's. But I am not downplaying Tyler's ability.

5. Udoh is a MUCH better passer and back to the basket offensive presence than Tyler is. He also could move over to center more easily than Tyler, which gives our coaches more flexibility with the front court rotation. A player like Wilson Chandler would make a lot more sense to acquire with Udoh as opposed to Tyler.

Like DGreenwell said, this trade upgrades two positions for us. When I say upgrade, I mean they fit our team much better than the current players. Our defense would be better and so would our offense. The two picks hurts, but after this trade, those picks would be much later than they already will be.

"Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. … You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

Re: NO/GS/IND

Also, thanks for the discussion in this thread. Outside of the unwarranted attacks and instigation of negativity, the basketball discussion is solid.

Batum is legit. He is a fantastic talent. He could stand to be a bit more aggressive when he is out there, but he is still young.

"Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. … You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

The Following User Says Thank You to pacergod2 For This Useful Post:

Re: NO/GS/IND

Good deal for Pacers and NO, not so much for GS.

I'm not a fan of Ellis, but he's clearly more talented than DC (even if not necessarily a better PG). Udoh isn't worse than Hans, and I certainly I like him better (for his defense). I'm not sure the picks make up the difference.

For GS, the centerpiece of the deal is Kaman, a guy they can sign as a FA next year (yes, they'll have cap space). That doesn't seem very smart.