Originally by:Miang HawaaEveryone who points out simple ways I can avoid a single player from unduly bothering me is stupid! Wahhh!

Ok...

Because mobilizing a fleet of multiple players just so a single player can do some ratting is a simple and easy solution. Especially when the enemy has been cloaked in a system all day and, for all you know, will remain afk till dt. "Hey guys, I feel like making a little isk, how about you all spend the next couple hours sitting in a fleet one system over and doing nothing else, just in case this guy stops being afk. Thanks."

So go rat in pairs or threes, if you can't cope wit 1 freakin' ship ina gang of 3 you are pretty useless, ofc there's the risk of a hotdrop, but then I would say this is far less likely than a quick gank attempt on the ratters and well, it is zero zero, it's not supposed to be risk free despite the efforts of nullbears suchas urself trying to make it so

Posted - 2011.07.11 13:32:00 -
[62]
Organising a group and combat support is beyond these whingers. So far as I can work out, they prefer whinging to being proactive and doing something so they can still be active in their space, while threatened by the ominous lone AFK cloakie :-D

Posted - 2011.07.11 16:44:00 -
[64]
WH space is not like null space cause you actually have to work to find things to do, you don't have an unlimited supply of things to do. Upgraded null offers belt rats, instant respawning combat sites, and grav sites galore. Therefore it attracts those who only want the easiest way to generate the most ISK for their wallets, and want to do so with the least amount of risk to themselves.

The need to use renters to pay the bills have made a new class of people in null that have done nothing but pay a bill to gain access to "their" systems. However, the "landlord does not give a rats arse about their safety, and makes no effort to hunt them down on the way in or out. The landlords care and defend only a small section of null now.

On the other side of the coin, null makes it very easy to "find" people, since belts are on overview, and all the combat sites can now be found using an onboard scanner that can be used while cloaked.

Add in the fact that its impossible for an active player to get any element of surprise since everyone in local knows they have arrived before they even finish their jump into the system.

So we have people living in null that do so only to generate the maximum isk possible and who are risk adverse, we have no ability to attack them without them knowing we are there, and this interferes with their vision of the sandbox as a mass influx to their wallet.

At this time, with perfect local intel on who is around, there is no way to for a small gang to effectively disrupt your operations without sitting in system 23.5/7 and most active players have no desire to do so.

If you want to nerf cloaks then tell me what you are willing to give up so that the scales are not tipped solely in favor of all the null sec carebears.

1) Give up instant local. Delay it 5 minutes. Oh you don't want that because then you won't get notice of a huge hot drop or some other whine. You already get a cyno on overview anywhere in system, is that not enough?

2) Make an ACTIVE module on your ship that is a high slot. Active module will, when active, tell you all the ships in system, but will also show your location on overview, same as a cyno beacon. Kind of like an active sonar, you give up your position by blasting a crap ton of energy into space, but you get to know whats in system. Heck even make a ship with the ability to use this module and pin down the location of a ship with skills, what ever you like, but you give up your position by doing so.

3) Make a "probe" that can be anchored anywhere, is visible on overview, and will tell you approximate ship class of anything passing within 200km of it cloaked or not. Make it fairly easy to destroy and costly. Can anchor that near a gate (or wormhole) and then you will know when something comes in system. However, it can not be anchored in asteroid belts of combat sites as there are to many things to interfere with the signal.

So really if you want to nerf cloaky ships, which is the ONLY counter to BOTS and all you skittish little carebear mice that run to your burrows everytime local goes +1, then give all of us PVP players a way to effectively hunt you when we are active.

I am ready to entertain your ideas of how to rebalance this game mechanism that does not further tip the scales in favor of the null sec carebear mouse.

Quote:AFK Cloakers i 0,0: No change needed. It is a Black Ops strategy and active Intelligenge gathering about the system and its player compositon, needed for later attack strategies. Should we likewise suggest to abollish gatecamps in 0,0 space, just because it seriously harms my welth? ?

That right there details why AFK cloaking is an issue, I have no issues with somebody coming into my system making past the gate camp or what ever and scouting the system and disrupting activities in that system. That part is a valid tactic and valuable intell gathering source.

The fact that they can gather this intel and disrupt activities without playing the game is where the issue is at. I don't want to see the cloak mechanics them selves changed as it allows for the tactic to be used. But being able to use that tactic without actually being at the keyboard is effectively the same as using a BoT. You are gaining a tactical advantage (by knowing what is in system and when) there by allowing you to plan an op when there will be little to no resistance, costing folks ISK by lowering productivity, and disrupting or even preventing the upgrade of a system or maintenance of that system level for industry or military areas. All this without being at your keyboard or playing the game. You do it perfect safety with zero risk to yourself, your ship, or your wallet.

To be at your keyboard and be able to do all that is fine and doesn't need to change.

To be afk and do all of that is what needs to change. As it stands right now that person that afk cloaks is able to gather the intell ect. He disrupts mining for maybe a couple hours or so till everybody figures out that he is afk. Then we all resume normal activities. It still hurts our wallets and we pay attention to scans and such a lot more and will usually have a few ships for protection but that's it. And yes once you hit indy 4 or 5 loosing a couple mining ships to trade out for protection can cause you to loose that industry level.

When a cloak comes into the system it should disrupt activities and cause all the above effects to there fullest, right now it doesn't.

There should be a danger, it should disrupt my activities and it should make me think twice about doing what it is I was about to do.

Simply put, providing a way to prevent the person from going afk without risking his ship and his pod provides advantage to both sides.

We know that person is active therefore more effectively disrupting our activities and causing damage to the industry and military levels of a system and causing a bigger hit to our wallets. It causes us to sit in our PoS or leave the system allowing the cloaker to find and bookmark our PoS for a future attack. It allows him to more effectively gain the intel for targets when or if he has a fleet jump into system. Causing us to boost our PoS defense and actually think about strategic defense.

By preventing the afk it allows us to try and keep those industry and military levels higher and allowing us to more effectively mine or rat when the player is not in system as normal. It gives us better experience at setting up PoS defense and fleet defense.

And most importantly it might actually cause more fleet engagements as systems get upgraded to level 5 industry and folks try to stop it or force it to go back down. Or make systems more prone to traffic therefore generating more fights.

All that by simply putting in a mechanic that causes the cloak to drop if you don't click yes I want to stay cloaked in a random spot on the screen every couple of mins. You still can't be found, your still going to be safe, you just now have to be at your keyboard to do it.

Posted - 2011.07.11 20:06:00 -
[66]
If you think AFK cloaking sucks, wait until you go and live in a WH. 0.0 carebears have local to give them intel and to actually let them know that someone is in the system. Wormholes don't and people there do fine.

Originally by:CaptainFalcon07If you think AFK cloaking sucks, wait until you go and live in a WH. 0.0 carebears have local to give them intel and to actually let them know that someone is in the system. Wormholes don't and people there do fine.

Worms don't exactly have the revolving doors that normal space does and it is very easy for a large enough expeditionary force to keep tabs on all comers or even prevent anything that may pose a threat from ever entering by collapsing the holes.

Originally by:CaptainFalcon07If you think AFK cloaking sucks, wait until you go and live in a WH. 0.0 carebears have local to give them intel and to actually let them know that someone is in the system. Wormholes don't and people there do fine.

Worms don't exactly have the revolving doors that normal space does and it is very easy for a large enough expeditionary force to keep tabs on all comers or even prevent anything that may pose a threat from ever entering by collapsing the holes.

So yeah, great comparison, my dear

Right, an incoming K162 followed by several cloaky t3's is easy to counter. Please, you know you can't live without your instant intel Local, and that is really the crux of the issue. There is no balance in 0.0 when you know the second someone comes into system and you all scurry like roaches when a light comes on.

So again, how much of your safety net "local intel" are you willing to give up to be able to address the afk cloaky?

Posted - 2011.07.11 22:02:00 -
[70]
gota love the rage and fail, also how will probing them help? it takes several seconds to get to the target after getting a scan hit, in that time a probed ship will be a fair distance from the warp in point making it next to impossible to catch anyway. Here is my suggestion: deal with it, you can do the same to the enemy as well so its no exploitI have just updated my torpedoes with a new windows operating system guidance system, prepare to feel my wrath!! oh... my torpedoes are coming back towards me

Quote: So again, how much of your safety net "local intel" are you willing to give up to be able to address the afk cloaky?

This is not the issue, the fact that they are there is not the issue. At no time should any player be able to gain an advantage of the other players without being at there computer. That's what needs to be fixed with the AFK cloaking. The fact that you gain a tactical advantage without playing.

Botting gives you an advantage without you having to be there to control your character.

AFK Cloaking gives you an advantage without you having to be there to control your character. You get intel on a system, see who's there and who comes and goes outa the system, ect all without needing to actually play the game. Its just like botting and going out a mining. The only difference is that you dont need to use a third party program to do it.

That's the issue that needs to be addressed, by removing the simple fact that you can do it while afk as I have stated previously it allows for both sides to have an advantage. We still wont be able to find you, we still wont be able to kill you. The mechanics of the cloak do not change. The only thing that changes is you now can't just come into the system gather the intel or other items without being at your keyboard.

Personally that's all I want to see change, I want you at your keyboard to disrupt my productivity or gather intell on my systems. I honestly don't care if I can find you and kill you. I just want you at your keyboard and actually playing to gain any advantage perceived or real in my systems. You want to take my industry level from 5 to 4 by disrupting my activities great I have no problems with you doing it as long as your at your keyboard doing it. You want to scout out my system and find out the best times to attack when resistance will be light or not there, great fine just play the game to do it. You want to find my PoS and take it out great just play the game while you do it. That's all I want to see change.

Originally by:Cendric De'CredsiuThis is not the issue, the fact that they are there is not the issue. At no time should any player be able to gain an advantage of the other players without being at there computer. That's what needs to be fixed with the AFK cloaking. The fact that you gain a tactical advantage without playing.

Botting gives you an advantage without you having to be there to control your character.

AFK Cloaking gives you an advantage without you having to be there to control your character. You get intel on a system, see who's there and who comes and goes outa the system, ect all without needing to actually play the game. Its just like botting and going out a mining. The only difference is that you dont need to use a third party program to do it.

That's the issue that needs to be addressed, by removing the simple fact that you can do it while afk as I have stated previously it allows for both sides to have an advantage. We still wont be able to find you, we still wont be able to kill you. The mechanics of the cloak do not change. The only thing that changes is you now can't just come into the system gather the intel or other items without being at your keyboard.

Personally that's all I want to see change, I want you at your keyboard to disrupt my productivity or gather intell on my systems. I honestly don't care if I can find you and kill you. I just want you at your keyboard and actually playing to gain any advantage perceived or real in my systems. You want to take my industry level from 5 to 4 by disrupting my activities great I have no problems with you doing it as long as your at your keyboard doing it. You want to scout out my system and find out the best times to attack when resistance will be light or not there, great fine just play the game to do it. You want to find my PoS and take it out great just play the game while you do it. That's all I want to see change.

How do they gather intel whilst AFK?What other items to they gather whilst AFK?How do they disrupt your activities whilst AFK?

I'd like honest, factual answers please.

Originally by:CCP ZuluForcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience.

Posted - 2011.07.12 00:10:00 -
[74]Edited by: Cendric De''Credsiu on 12/07/2011 00:19:12So what your saying is that you should be able to go afk, record logs of local chat, see what ships come in and out of the system via fraps. See when the system is active and not active and be able to plan an attack all without needing to be at your computer to grab that intell.

By changing it to where you can not afk cloak anymore and actually have to be there it allows you to gain better more accurate intell on the system and our response times. It allows you to actually lock down the system for the entire time your on vs a half an hour to an hour. What is better attack a system when there response time is a half an hour or attack that system when the response time is 2 minutes. If your set in the right position you also get to see what kind of ships we field for that defense.

I am not asking that the cloak mechanic change or that we be able to find you. We are asking that it be changed to where you cant just cloak up and walk away from your computer all day and stay safe and gather the intell or cause a drop in production without actually being at your computer.

Quote:How do they gather intel whilst AFK? What other items to they gather whilst AFK? How do they disrupt your activities whilst AFK? I'd like honest, factual answers please.

Intell, if you set it right you can read threw the logs when you come back, if you sit near a gate and use fraps, you can see what ships come in and out. By using fraps you can see how many folks are in local and what the active times are.

Items you of course wont gain any.

Disruption is easy, I dont know if they are afk or not, so rather then risk it and have 10 hulks out with 1 person doing protection, i now have 3 to 4 folks providing protection, this lowers productivity, and if you consider how much ore you have to mine to keep an industry level of 5 or 4 each day, that loss can and most times does mean the loss of that industry level.

If I am going to online a PoS in that system, it would be relativly stupid of me to do so without having protection while it is going up and getting onlined.

Ratting is also affected as we will most times not go out and rat due to the rats warp scraming us. The risk is to great of you having scanned us down and then dropping a cyno and us being unable to get away.

Originally by:Cendric De'Credsiu I am not asking that the cloak mechanic change or that we be able to find you. We are asking that it be changed to where you cant just cloak up and walk away from your computer all day and stay safe and gather the intell or cause a drop in production without actually being at your computer.

Right, and we are just asking that you not be able to sit in your system all day making isk while having perfect intel to be able to run to station every time someone comes within 2 systems of you.

Posted - 2011.07.12 00:22:00 -
[77]
I have yet to see answers to why these aren't suitable ways to handle afk cloakers:

D-Scan for probesHave a gang of friends with you to protect you

Also - as far as 'free intel' goes, if they can do it so can you. So your only argument is 'honor playing' - that is that players shouldn't be able to get things easy if they can. Why not send your own cloakers to their systems? Only you are halting operations, not them. You are being REACTIONARY.

Here's another thought - do you operate in only ONE system? Guess what? AFK cloakers can't follow you, what a concept. move next door and mine there. If you're worried about hauling - you should have an escort anyways, so a cloaker won't matter. If you ARE in just one system, afk cloakers are the least of your concerns.

Nullsec and Lowsec is not safe - no you didn't say it was - but you fail to realize how unsafe it is. Yes, it really is that easy to get intel on you so you better be ready when that afk cloaker ends up being a hot drop when you least expect it. Stressful? Only if you make it so, but generally yes. Unfair? Not at all. Can you do something about it? Yeah - go find his corp and kick their ass. Can't? Sounds like you're either not ready for low/null, are a bot, or you don't have any friends to help you...which goes back to you're not ready for low/null.

Quote:Nullsec and Lowsec is not safe - no you didn't say it was - but you fail to realize how unsafe it is.

If your cloaked and AFK it is perfectly safe.

Mags I did answer each item, i was in the process of editing it when you posted most likly.

Thats my point though right there. Nullsec and Lowsec is not supposed to be safe. No offense but after a half hour or so the cloaker doesn't bother me. All he does is make me change my operations a little. If you are in a system and cloaked up it should halt operations, it should provoke a response, it should cause an element of danger to the people in that system.

Right now it after a half hour to an hour, guess what, while I had to change my operations and have things disrupted a little, I still continue. I want that danger in my system you show up and cloak, it should stop my operations in there tracks, i shouldn't feel safer in null sec then I do in frigging Jita.

Posted - 2011.07.12 01:07:00 -
[79]
Totally safe, yes of course it is. Guess what, you still can't do anything but sit there and watch too. I'm seeing a cost/benefit here and thus no problem.

Even if the guy WAS probeable - he could just move around and still accomplish the exact same 'problem' of yours. He could do it hours on end too if he so chose. So again, you're only problem is 'honor playing' in that you can't stand that a player can accomplish a task with minimal effort.

You know we also have mining industrials, jet-can mining, data cores, FW and LP (talk about a faucet), changing ships while fighting with an orca, jump bridges, super-carriers that can only be beat by more super-carriers...I'm seeing a trend of minimal effort with benefits. So I really don't see a problem with someone being able to show up, cloak up, be unprobeable, and sit there while they go play tennis with the neighbors. There are methods available (that you STILL haven't addressed) to ward against the threat of these people - gangs and d-scan the most obvious, system security is more applicable to alliances large enough to support such an endeavor, but those first two a gang of three can do.

You try and say cloaking and hanging out in your system is not 'playing the game'. It's becoming clear that anything you don't like 'isn't playing the game' as you see it. Well guess what - welcome to the sandbox. Anything goes. So either adapt or die. The latter is a good option for you.-- The Door!

Posted - 2011.07.12 01:16:00 -
[81]
You know I just realized that even if you could probe out cloaks...

I have a covops, thus it moves at a normal speed. I take said covops and fit it to go as fast as possible passively (since we can't use mwd or ab, right?)

I now warp in, cloak up, double click past the star...and walk off....cruising along at however many hundred (maybe thousand?) m/s. Given that I'm moving, though slow relative to the size of probe scans, even if you pinpointed my cloaked ship and warped in, by the time you arrive I'll be more than 25km away from your warp in...and continuing to fly further away in a straight line. So unless by sheer luck you manually fly right at me, you'll not bust my cloak. Ta-da, I just became an afk cloaker that's probeable. Unless CCP develops a ship that can bust cloaks that far out (which I can see 20km maybe, but 25+?) your problem remains.

Originally by:LakumaYou know I just realized that even if you could probe out cloaks...

I have a covops, thus it moves at a normal speed. I take said covops and fit it to go as fast as possible passively (since we can't use mwd or ab, right?)

I now warp in, cloak up, double click past the star...and walk off....cruising along at however many hundred (maybe thousand?) m/s. Given that I'm moving, though slow relative to the size of probe scans, even if you pinpointed my cloaked ship and warped in, by the time you arrive I'll be more than 25km away from your warp in...and continuing to fly further away in a straight line. So unless by sheer luck you manually fly right at me, you'll not bust my cloak. Ta-da, I just became an afk cloaker that's probeable. Unless CCP develops a ship that can bust cloaks that far out (which I can see 20km maybe, but 25+?) your problem remains.

Food for Thought.

Ha, I dunno why I didn't think to mention that, cause I do the same with non-cloaky small fast ship by powering along with my MWD. Thus anyone trying to probe me out lands way the hell back that way *gestures over my shoulder*, giving me more than enough time to respond. Or if they jump in cloaked they're too far off to catch me without a MWD while cloaked. Either way I can see them coming a mile off.

The upshot is the whole idea of making cloaked ships probable fails anyway.

I also say that making cloaked ships would screw over many bigger, slower, more expensive ships who make not have a chance to survive, unless they can stay cloaked in a safe spot, while they figure a way out of a hostile system.-- The Door!

Originally by:Cendric De'CredsiuIntell, if you set it right you can read threw the logs when you come back, if you sit near a gate and use fraps, you can see what ships come in and out. By using fraps you can see how many folks are in local and what the active times are.

Fraps. You honestly want me to believe, that someone would create hours of fraps to watch later?

Originally by:Cendric De'CredsiuItems you of course wont gain any.

You already said they do, why did you lie about that?

Originally by:Cendric De'CredsiuDisruption is easy, I dont know if they are afk or not, so rather then risk it and have 10 hulks out with 1 person doing protection, i now have 3 to 4 folks providing protection, this lowers productivity, and if you consider how much ore you have to mine to keep an industry level of 5 or 4 each day, that loss can and most times does mean the loss of that industry level.

If I am going to online a PoS in that system, it would be relativly stupid of me to do so without having protection while it is going up and getting onlined.

Ratting is also affected as we will most times not go out and rat due to the rats warp scraming us. The risk is to great of you having scanned us down and then dropping a cyno and us being unable to get away.

But they are AFK. How do they do all of this, whilst not at the keyboard?

Originally by:CCP ZuluForcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience.

Posted - 2011.07.12 08:21:00 -
[84]
You haven't lived in a worm with an organized crew I take it? All holes are tagged almost at time of spawn and collapsing the potentially dangerous ones them takes very little effort.Keep in mind that the "real" worm dwellers don't solo crap like you are probably used to, so a T3 gang poses no significant threat .. read the long story about the first entity to ever be kicked out of a worm .. took almost six months if I recall (R&K doing the deed I think).

Originally by:Loki SeiSo again, how much of your safety net "local intel" are you willing to give up to be able to address the afk cloaky?

Do try to keep up, already answered that question. Difference between us seems to be that you want changes that benefit your chosen modus operandi at the expense of all others, whereas I aim for actual balance.

Removing local alone breaks more than fixes.

PS: Please stop thinking I have anything to do with the daisy-chain stroking that is null .. I saw the impending fiasco of DOM before it was deployed and got out while the getting was good thank you very much.

Originally by:ToovhonI also say that making cloaked ships would screw over many bigger...

Oh no, my solo ratting super-capital backbone!!!!1111You must be referring to supers, nothing else fits and nothing else would be impacted to any significant degree.

Guess what, supers shouldn't be out and about without support if they want to live. Supers are alliance assets speaks not only about the cost but how they were intended to be used, the fact that any moron with half a brain can buy one with a couple of months of grinding does not really change that.

Would probeable cloaks make Supers obsolete? Hardly, a few would die in a fire after the change but then tactical changes are made .. like jumping with triage NRG-trans Archons or forward bases (POS) along travel paths.Would probeable cloaks make solo Supers obsolete? Most definitely, as they should be. That homogeneous super-blobs is even viable is ridiculous beyond belief and one of the reasons why they will be hit hard when the pendulum comes back.

The only person who is reasonably affected by an AFK cloaker is a botter.

Every other person is capable of asking for help from corp/alliance if the cloaker turns out to be active.

Not true all efected by thatos freeks, as botter in the same way just ratter, this days not so much good space to rat only 3-5 systems in all regions where is good anomalys. And from my expiriance mostly clouckers have cov cynos on them so par rating and fleet ratign dont change a **** and its still for that cloucker to easy get targets.

Originally by:Cendric De'CredsiuThis is not the issue, the fact that they are there is not the issue. At no time should any player be able to gain an advantage of the other players without being at there computer. That's what needs to be fixed with the AFK cloaking. The fact that you gain a tactical advantage without playing.

Botting gives you an advantage without you having to be there to control your character.

AFK Cloaking gives you an advantage without you having to be there to control your character. You get intel on a system, see who's there and who comes and goes outa the system, ect all without needing to actually play the game. Its just like botting and going out a mining. The only difference is that you dont need to use a third party program to do it.

That's the issue that needs to be addressed, by removing the simple fact that you can do it while afk as I have stated previously it allows for both sides to have an advantage. We still wont be able to find you, we still wont be able to kill you. The mechanics of the cloak do not change. The only thing that changes is you now can't just come into the system gather the intel or other items without being at your keyboard.

Personally that's all I want to see change, I want you at your keyboard to disrupt my productivity or gather intell on my systems. I honestly don't care if I can find you and kill you. I just want you at your keyboard and actually playing to gain any advantage perceived or real in my systems. You want to take my industry level from 5 to 4 by disrupting my activities great I have no problems with you doing it as long as your at your keyboard doing it. You want to scout out my system and find out the best times to attack when resistance will be light or not there, great fine just play the game to do it. You want to find my PoS and take it out great just play the game while you do it. That's all I want to see change.

How do they gather intel whilst AFK?What other items to they gather whilst AFK?How do they disrupt your activities whilst AFK?

I'd like honest, factual answers please.

How do they gather intel whilst AFK?Boting wath els, so they geting intell on wath hapening in that system, bots geting intell, its not verry hard make soft with wil count up a ppl in sytem and if you put close to station otr to gate even direct scan rezutlts off ship types.

What other items to they gather whilst AFK?Basicly main purpes fo thos is get inetel and get easy target you newer know hee is actiuve or hee is not actif but only a chance that soem one can sit in systme weeks witout sleep and eating somting, and geter intel all the time its inaf to get them out off system no easy mode for them to.

How do they disrupt your activities whilst AFK?How is ad newer know when hee beckoms active if hee beckoms active no change to safe your self, you wil be hot droped in seconds. So to easy get targets.

Originally by:LakumaI have yet to see answers to why these aren't suitable ways to handle afk cloakers:

Answres:1. D-Scan for probesnot works usualy they booking sanctums havens befor you even geting them and scan down santum or heven no need probes. so no chanhe to see oprobes att all, hee can just simply warp from one sanctum or hevenm to ader at 100km see if there is osme one if is rewarop and atack you will not have even a chance to rpotect or call reinforcments you will be hot drops and died. even if you ratr with 5-6 ppl probably smalest wil exacape but alinign times to high to excape atall. i Saa even with 2-3 distrupts such clouckers.

2. Have a gang of friends with you to protect youno point ot have them they wil have eny way biger force to counter you and frends.

3. Also - as far as 'free intel' goes, if they can do it so can you. So your only argument is 'honor playing' - that is that players shouldn't be able to get things easy if they can. Why not send your own cloakers to their systems? Only you are halting operations, not them. You are being REACTIONARY.Meny off them even dont have systems and oppareting from npc space so wherre you will send your couckers :) in to empire or NPC 0.0 space and wath you wil disturp there afk siting pvper chars with are siting in stations until they play in high sec msion runing with ader chars :)

4. Here's another thought - do you operate in only ONE system? Guess what? AFK cloakers can't follow you, what a concept. move next door and mine there. If you're worried about hauling - you should have an escort anyways, so a cloaker won't matter. If you ARE in just one system, afk cloakers are the least of your concerns.you even know how much systems left for good ratign in space thos can cover even small alince clouckers i dont talk about biger ones. So you have in region only like max 10 systems and you tink they will not get 10 clcoukers to distrup them all i sa allready that hapening.

5. Nullsec and Lowsec is not safe - no you didn't say it was - but you fail to realize how unsafe it is. Yes, it really is that easy to get intel on you so you better be ready when that afk cloaker ends up being a hot drop when you least expect it. Stressful? Only if you make it so, but generally yes. Unfair? Not at all. Can you do something about it? Yeah - go find his corp and kick their ass. Can't? Sounds like you're either not ready for low/null, are a bot, or you don't have any friends to help you...which goes back to you're not ready for low/null.No one talks about safty here. Wie talking about that one pilot can do to much interfirence iin local ppl activitys, than supose to, its okey roming gangs thos you can counter they coming in you make gang counter them kil them or they run home all its good and every one happy but couckers you cant counter eny known way you wil be dead eny way or dont rat atta all or dont mine at all. And than you dont need wonder that oppl leaving 0.0 meny hoo left are pist off thos clouckers. so conclusion:roming gangs solo runing pvp and cating soem one its okey, but coucked sit in system for weeks and hot drop ppl with will not have chence even proteckt them self not okey, tho big interfirance in local live from them.

Originally by:Cendric De'CredsiuIntell, if you set it right you can read threw the logs when you come back, if you sit near a gate and use fraps, you can see what ships come in and out. By using fraps you can see how many folks are in local and what the active times are.

Fraps. You honestly want me to believe, that someone would create hours of fraps to watch later?

Originally by:Cendric De'CredsiuItems you of course wont gain any.

You already said they do, why did you lie about that?

Originally by:Cendric De'CredsiuDisruption is easy, I dont know if they are afk or not, so rather then risk it and have 10 hulks out with 1 person doing protection, i now have 3 to 4 folks providing protection, this lowers productivity, and if you consider how much ore you have to mine to keep an industry level of 5 or 4 each day, that loss can and most times does mean the loss of that industry level.

If I am going to online a PoS in that system, it would be relativly stupid of me to do so without having protection while it is going up and getting onlined.

Ratting is also affected as we will most times not go out and rat due to the rats warp scraming us. The risk is to great of you having scanned us down and then dropping a cyno and us being unable to get away.

But they are AFK. How do they do all of this, whilst not at the keyboard?

allready exist sych programms with are using frapses and that can be counted outomatikly no need even count them manyaly with all ship names insted.

Originally by:ToovhonI also say that making cloaked ships would screw over many bigger...

Oh no, my solo ratting super-capital backbone!!!!1111You must be referring to supers, nothing else fits and nothing else would be impacted to any significant degree.

No, I'm mainly referring to Battlecruisers and battleships as I don't fly caps myself (nor do I have much interest in doing so). Most BCs and BSes cannot fly fast enough cloaked to make probing cloaked ships fail for them, if they're set to burn in a straight line. Nano fits might change that, but they have been impractical for larger ships since the nano nerf.

But good job not knowing the speed capabilities of sub-caps while cloaked, or how far away one would have to be to escape tackling.-- The Door!

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