Swann left stumped by England 'horror show'

England's captain, Graeme Swann, admitted that a "bit of pressure, a bit of inexperience and a bit of ineptitude all added up to a horror show", as an entirely unfancied West Indian team rallied round in defence of a below-par target of 114, and pulled off an impressive 25-run victory thanks to a Man-of-the-Match spell of 3 for 9 in four overs from the debutant left-arm spinner, Garey Mathurin.

Needing less than a run-a-ball from the outset, and with the memory of their ten-wicket cruise in the first Twenty20 on Friday night, England began their run-chase fully expecting to seal a 2-0 series win and conclude their international summer on another upbeat note. But Mathurin's nerveless spell, in his very first appearance in any form of cricket in England, choked their ambition from the Powerplay onwards, and left the lower-order with too much momentum to claw back.

"God works in mysterious ways," said Mathurin, a childhood friend of the captain, and fellow St Lucian, Darren Sammy. "Everybody has their turn and it's just that my turn came at the age of 28. The English people hadn't seen me before so I knew I could go out and get the job done. We have a good team unity going on and the cohesiveness just worked."

The result left Swann feeling a touch humbled at the end of what has been a remarkable season for England, but even after being bowled out for 88, he felt that his side had been "exceptional" in the first half of the contest, and believed they would probably learn more from this setback than could ever have been learnt in victory.

"For half the game we were exceptional and we put ourselves in a position where we should never ever lose a game of cricket," said Swann. "Let's face it, to not chase 113 in international cricket is unacceptable. West Indies bowled and fielded well, but not well enough to bowl a team out for 88. It was good fielding mixed with a bit of panic, and four run-outs is crazy chasing such a small total on such a big field."

After a short end-of-season break, England head off to the subcontinent next week to embark on a five-ODI tour of India, where their failure to deal with a turning surface will doubtless impact on the type of wickets they can expect to face when they arrive. Further down the line, England will be defending their World Twenty20 crown on the spin-friendly surfaces of Sri Lanka next year, and on this evidence, they need to work on their manipulation of the field as much as their boundary-clearing ability.

"For all the positives of Friday night, there were quite a few negatives that need to be ironed out of our game before we play on pretty similar tracks over the next 12 months," said Swann. "We are going to face spin in the first six overs again, and if we can take one good thing out of the way we batted, it's that it's completely unacceptable, and won't be allowed to happen again.

"It's a harsh environment in international cricket and you find out a few things about people when they are under the pump," he added. "Today, one or two guys didn't respond that well, but I'm sure, knowing this team as I do and the way they have trained, it's a mere blip. I wouldn't write off any of this XI who have played tonight, or indeed any of the 14 in the squad, because they are all superb cricketers."

In England's defence, their side was missing several of its most experienced campaigners, not least Eoin Morgan, whose deft use of the angles would have been ideal for keeping the run-rate moving. But Swann believed the chosen team should still have performed much, much better. "I'd love to find an excuse for them and say they're inexperienced, but they're not inexperienced in Twenty20 cricket," he said. "I'm not just blaming the top six, I'm blaming the 11 players with the bat because we were pretty appalling.

"The left-arm spinner, you can't argue with 3 for 9, but the three guys who got out to him will probably look at the shots they played and be pretty horrified," he added. "We allowed him to get exceptional figures and he did catch us on the hop. But I'd hope each batsman who got out will look at it and think 'I won't do that again'. We were still in the game at six-seven down at a run-a-ball, but of the wickets that fell, very few were caused by the ball deviating. It was poor shots and poor execution of those shots."

For Mathurin and his team-mates, however, the result was the ideal tonic for their defeat on Friday night, and went a long way towards answering their many critics - in the Caribbean and worldwide. "Yeah, we had a point to prove," said Mathurin. "England played really, really well on Friday, so we were playing for some pride, and then we were coming back hard at them. We knew we could do it. Hopefully this shows everyone the energy and enthusiasm we have got, and hopefully everyone sees what we can do."

Its about time posters who choose to vent their hatred on a thread not connected with them (their team) were banned from posting again until that thread closes. Such a band should affect both their username and IP Address(es).

BigINDFan
on September 27, 2011, 19:52 GMT

WI have the habit of causing upsets when people write them off. It is admirable given that they are missing Gayle and Sammy is under a lot of pressure. I saw posts on Ind here. This is a Eng vs WI thread so it makes sense to talk about these two teams. As a Big India Fan I am upset with the "lack of intensity" shown by the Ind test team treating the Eng tour so casually. It is not lack of talent but the lack of the desire to win that cost Ind. Dhoni and co - learn a lesson or two from this WI team. If your mind is not 100% on a tour just don't play it. Send young lads who have that desire to do well.

Shan156
on September 27, 2011, 17:46 GMT

"India won the series against SA"

Which series? Test series was drawn, ODI series was won by SA. Unless, you mean the ODI series in India which was a long time back. SA also beat India in the WC.

jmcilhinney
on September 27, 2011, 13:45 GMT

@Chetan Patel, you are being deliberately obtuse. You know exactly what Swann is talking about. What he is saying is that WI did not bowl and field so out of their skin that a team who batted well would have been bowled out for 88. He's saying that, while WI bowled and fielded well, England batted poorly and therefore contributed to their poor total. Of course, you knew that already and you only made your post because you wanted to say something negative. Either that and I'm giving you to much credit and you are just obtuse. Let's face it people, if you don't like a team then you're going to find any excuse to criticise. If Swann had said that England batted well then everyone would definitely jumped on him for that, yet he's now being criticised for saying that England batted poorly, which is obviously true, and being called a show off to boot. Do you people even think before posting, or do you just throw up the first criticism that comes to mind, whether or not it makes sense?

Cricinfouser
on September 27, 2011, 12:23 GMT

@Chetan Patel - there's no pleasing some people, is there?! Swann acknowledged that WI played well, but his point was that England also batted badly - in some cases, really badly! How is that showing off?? It doesn't take anything away from the WI success. England should have won the game, but thanks to excellent WI performance in the field and some stupid, panicky batting from England, they didn't.

Cricinfouser
on September 27, 2011, 11:06 GMT

@blastu - yes, yes, well done India. This is a comment thread on Eng v WI. If you must bring India into it, why not mention their most recent performance? Oh, I know why...
I thought Swann's response to the defeat was admirable: he recognised the excellence of the WI performance, acknowledged the failures of the English batsmen and identified what needs to be improved. Let's hope the team can act on this; I feel confident Flower and Cook/Strauss/Broad will not allow them to rest on their laurels.

dummy4fb
on September 27, 2011, 10:40 GMT

What is swann thinking about when he said that WI did not bowl good enough to bowl a team out for 88...they clearly did....show off

blastu
on September 27, 2011, 9:30 GMT

India won the series against SA,srilanka,WI,Aus & a very important Worldcup,Past 3 years india as won most of the series...........

5wombats
on September 27, 2011, 8:32 GMT

@chandau - what on earth are you talking about! - So, there's no particular reason why Swann is the best ODI bowler in the world then? and no particular reason why he is third in the Test bowler list and the best Test spin bowler? I don't remember Sri Lanka winning a series over here in England this Summer - and I don't remember seeing Murali (with that odd action of his - I think I would have noticed... ) all Summer either. Swann IS currently the world's best spinner - it's official - whether you like it or not. Murali, by contrast, is history.

chiggers
on September 27, 2011, 7:48 GMT

'One bad series will not put india at bottom,one good series will not put england at the TOP.'. It isn't one good series for England though - it has been a succession of good series over the last two years that has put them where they are, and India's results over the same period that have put them where they are. There are none so blind as those that will not see...

delboy
on September 28, 2011, 9:25 GMT

Its about time posters who choose to vent their hatred on a thread not connected with them (their team) were banned from posting again until that thread closes. Such a band should affect both their username and IP Address(es).

BigINDFan
on September 27, 2011, 19:52 GMT

WI have the habit of causing upsets when people write them off. It is admirable given that they are missing Gayle and Sammy is under a lot of pressure. I saw posts on Ind here. This is a Eng vs WI thread so it makes sense to talk about these two teams. As a Big India Fan I am upset with the "lack of intensity" shown by the Ind test team treating the Eng tour so casually. It is not lack of talent but the lack of the desire to win that cost Ind. Dhoni and co - learn a lesson or two from this WI team. If your mind is not 100% on a tour just don't play it. Send young lads who have that desire to do well.

Shan156
on September 27, 2011, 17:46 GMT

"India won the series against SA"

Which series? Test series was drawn, ODI series was won by SA. Unless, you mean the ODI series in India which was a long time back. SA also beat India in the WC.

jmcilhinney
on September 27, 2011, 13:45 GMT

@Chetan Patel, you are being deliberately obtuse. You know exactly what Swann is talking about. What he is saying is that WI did not bowl and field so out of their skin that a team who batted well would have been bowled out for 88. He's saying that, while WI bowled and fielded well, England batted poorly and therefore contributed to their poor total. Of course, you knew that already and you only made your post because you wanted to say something negative. Either that and I'm giving you to much credit and you are just obtuse. Let's face it people, if you don't like a team then you're going to find any excuse to criticise. If Swann had said that England batted well then everyone would definitely jumped on him for that, yet he's now being criticised for saying that England batted poorly, which is obviously true, and being called a show off to boot. Do you people even think before posting, or do you just throw up the first criticism that comes to mind, whether or not it makes sense?

Cricinfouser
on September 27, 2011, 12:23 GMT

@Chetan Patel - there's no pleasing some people, is there?! Swann acknowledged that WI played well, but his point was that England also batted badly - in some cases, really badly! How is that showing off?? It doesn't take anything away from the WI success. England should have won the game, but thanks to excellent WI performance in the field and some stupid, panicky batting from England, they didn't.

Cricinfouser
on September 27, 2011, 11:06 GMT

@blastu - yes, yes, well done India. This is a comment thread on Eng v WI. If you must bring India into it, why not mention their most recent performance? Oh, I know why...
I thought Swann's response to the defeat was admirable: he recognised the excellence of the WI performance, acknowledged the failures of the English batsmen and identified what needs to be improved. Let's hope the team can act on this; I feel confident Flower and Cook/Strauss/Broad will not allow them to rest on their laurels.

dummy4fb
on September 27, 2011, 10:40 GMT

What is swann thinking about when he said that WI did not bowl good enough to bowl a team out for 88...they clearly did....show off

blastu
on September 27, 2011, 9:30 GMT

India won the series against SA,srilanka,WI,Aus & a very important Worldcup,Past 3 years india as won most of the series...........

5wombats
on September 27, 2011, 8:32 GMT

@chandau - what on earth are you talking about! - So, there's no particular reason why Swann is the best ODI bowler in the world then? and no particular reason why he is third in the Test bowler list and the best Test spin bowler? I don't remember Sri Lanka winning a series over here in England this Summer - and I don't remember seeing Murali (with that odd action of his - I think I would have noticed... ) all Summer either. Swann IS currently the world's best spinner - it's official - whether you like it or not. Murali, by contrast, is history.

chiggers
on September 27, 2011, 7:48 GMT

'One bad series will not put india at bottom,one good series will not put england at the TOP.'. It isn't one good series for England though - it has been a succession of good series over the last two years that has put them where they are, and India's results over the same period that have put them where they are. There are none so blind as those that will not see...

chandau
on September 27, 2011, 7:12 GMT

@ Front-Foot-Lunge : "Swann is the world's best spinner and has been for a few years now.." ROFL LOL LOL LOL
the worlds best spinner could not buy a wicket in the spin friendly sub-continent wickets during the world cup. Remember the 10 wicket thrashing by Sri Lanka mate?
and even during the Sri Lanka series how many wickets did this 'world's best spinner' take? Dont think everyone who comments here is from INDIA! Swann can't hold a candle to Murali, the greatest ever bowler the Bradman of bowling !!!

Cricinfouser
on September 27, 2011, 6:42 GMT

Coming into this late, but first thing: congratulations to WI for a superb performance. In the previous match they had looked down-and-out and utterly outclassed, and it was really impressive to see them turn things around. Despite being kept to a low total by another impressive English bowling display, their own performance in the field was outstanding: tight, intelligent bowling and much more discipline in the field. England's batsmen were disappointing and should have won - I hope they will learn lessons from this! No excuses.
But I was wondering - perhaps I am on the wrong thread here, as most of the comments seem to be about how India are still brilliant (having failed to win an international match all summer) and England are apparently mediocre (now that they have drawn a series instead of winning, as they have been doing constantly for the last 2 years). Maybe I missed something? ;-)

blastu
on September 27, 2011, 4:56 GMT

One bad series will not put india at bottom,one good series will not put england at the TOP.

blastu
on September 27, 2011, 4:36 GMT

@Snick- England winning is going to be end in india. Just wait for 2 weeks.I accept england played well in england, but not in india.

Snick_To_Backward_Point
on September 26, 2011, 22:24 GMT

screamingeagle: "do not worry about Indian cricket, it is still pretty strong despite what people may think". Really?? If i might suggest a reality check here - India were exposed for lack of depth in their bowling. Without bowling a side might hope for a draw or perhaps may hold out for their opponents to make mistakes. Additionally, you have a core of batsmen due for retirement imminently. WHERE IS THE TALENT COMING UP? Sorry, I dont see a pretty strong Indian side from the evidence this Summer. I did see unfit, overweight players burdened by lethargy and perhaps by their focus being elsewhere? Please don't reflect the "couldn't give a damn, we'll do it our way" arrogance of the BCCI. All the while you do this, India will continue to slide. You can't get away from logic no matter how much you might want to ignore it.

5wombats
on September 26, 2011, 22:08 GMT

@screamingeagle - I, along with a lot of England fans have had a guts full of the garbage trolled out by some indian fans on here. And this isn't even a page featuring an india game. I am fighting fire with fire. And by the way - thanks for the history lesson.

screamingeagle
on September 26, 2011, 20:50 GMT

5wombats, I know winning 10-0 or w/e would make you feel really good, but that does not mean you pull others down. I have seen sensible posts by you before, but the couple here were not. Before you start lecturing about what this series meant for india, might want to look back at why Eng were never rated in Aus when their team were tossing you aside....that went on for quite a few years , you know. I am sure you would have watched a few matches from then. And while you are at it, go look at who won the WC2011. I know some people cannot digest that. Anyway, do not worry about Indian cricket, it is pretty strong, despite what people think.

5wombats
on September 26, 2011, 19:12 GMT

@Antriksh Saal; what a lot excuses and nonsense. And as for your comment about England bowlers being thrashed - what utter drivel.

itsthewayuplay
on September 26, 2011, 19:07 GMT

@Sri Iyer Broad (injured anyway) and Anderson don't hit the deck? What about Tremlett and Finn? Have you seen any of cricket against India this summer? You are missing the point. If England do not have the pace attack to win in India, neither does India. It's only a matter of time before England bowlers are offered IPL contracts. India's traditional strength of spin is not there but it is for England who have Swann, Panesar may come back into the reckoning and a number of other young spinners with huge potential. You just have to see the bowling figures for the IPL and CLT20 to see that its the Indian bowlers who are getting smashed all over the park. Watching them perform is even more dispiriting because they do not use any smarts in the absence of pace. England have a good chance in India next month particularly if they bowl first because of the paucity of India's bowling. India's best chance of winning at home is to chase. A sad indictment of the current state of Indian cricket.

Shan156
on September 26, 2011, 18:33 GMT

Indian fans' comments are hilarious - one comprehensive series victory does not make an 'average' England side good but despite having received a thrashing in England and despite not winning a single series in Australia or SA, India is still a great team. Some logic that.

RohanMarkJay
on September 26, 2011, 18:25 GMT

Congratulations to the West Indies. Very well played Gentleman! Congratulations to England team too for a successful Summer. In short well played both teams! Now it has been a very very long time since I complemented two teams at the same time. Shows the respect I have for the west indies in this match evoking memories of their great and colorful, flamboyant cricketing heritage.

hhillbumper
on September 26, 2011, 18:14 GMT

The west indies played well and England didnt bat well.Judging by all the posts on here did not see India play last night (Theme of the summer really! Always been a fan of west indies and would be good to see them back near the top.

dummy4fb
on September 26, 2011, 17:57 GMT

Does one swallow make a summer? no! Similarly one series victory, comprehensive as it may be, doesnot make an average English team great.

Win a proper world cup first (IPL is more competetive than T20 world cup). Then you shall be deemed worthy of commenting on the world champions.

Till then, chill in your non existing summer and wait for your team to get a white wash when you return to the real home of cricket.

5wombats
on September 26, 2011, 17:49 GMT

@Antriksh Saal; what a lot excuses and nonsense. And as for your comment about England bowlers being thrashed - what utter drivel.

Shan156
on September 26, 2011, 17:19 GMT

@itsthewayuplay, We know that there are millions of sane fans like yourself. If anything, one main reason why cricket is still a major sport is because it is followed like a religion in India, a huge country with nearly 1.2 billion people. In all fairness, there were a few England fans too who went overboard with the victories. However, if you had followed the comments here over the last few months, you would have noticed that there were quite a few Indian fans who were commenting as if India didn't deserve to lose because they are, well, India and England just got lucky. In contrast, most England fans here accept that the Windies deserved to win today because they played the better cricket on the day. If fans could understand that this is just a sport meant for fun, and some team has to win and the other has to lose, there would be no problems. Victories and defeats are part and parcel of sport. India and England are both very good teams regardless of these results. Cheers.

dummy4fb
on September 26, 2011, 16:46 GMT

@5wombats those were bowl first conditions in Zim. check the scores ,every game was affected by early morning moisture.No team batted first after winning toss and it was India d team which played while Srilanka had their A team.

ENGLAND WERE LUCKY IN ODIS WITH THE TOSS(ALL 5 WON) INDIANS BOWLED WITH THE WET BALL IN 4 GAMES WHEN IT WAS TURNING.
3-0 WAS NOT A THRASHING THAT PEOPLE MAKE IT OUT TO BE.INFACT ENGLISH BOWLERS WERE THRASHED IN ALMOST EVERY GAME EXCEPT SWANN AND INDIANS ARE CRITICISED FOR BAD BOWLING.

5wombats
on September 26, 2011, 15:47 GMT

@Sanjay Srivastava - so perhaps you'd like to explain to us how india lost TWO ODI games to Zimbabwe last year and thus did not make it the final of the tri-series with Sri Lanka..... Mmmm... we're all dying to know. It seems that any team can lose except india - and when they do - there is always "unfairness" or "bad luck" or the ball is too round or some such nonsense. Played 10 won 0 should be conclusive enough for most people - The rest of the world knows what this scoreline and this Summer means for india - even if indians themselves do not want to accept it.

Shan156
on September 26, 2011, 15:28 GMT

@chokkashokka, 0-4, and 0-3 after entering the country as the #1 test team and as world champions is more shameful. Remind me, what was the margin of the defeat at Edgbaston? innings and 242 runs, yes. Read that scorecard and weep.

Shan156
on September 26, 2011, 15:26 GMT

@ blastu, England lost 0-5 to India in 2008? Wow. Great, really. I need to point out, though, that Trescothick retired from international cricket in 2006 and Strauss didn't play any part in the 0-5 thrashing. At least, we managed to draw a test in India. But, India, with Dravid, Tendulkar and Laxman, lost 4 out of 4 tests to England recently, with the margin widening every test. At most, you could say the teams are equal since they win in home conditions. How you could proclaim that your team is better than England after being thrashed in all formats of the game is beyond me?

Snick_To_Backward_Point
on September 26, 2011, 15:23 GMT

Yevghenny, India were indeed without the services of Mr Khan, a 32 swing bowler who has lost a yard of pace in the past 2 years; and Harbhajan Singh who seems to have lost the art of spinning the ball. They were also without the services of ANY comparable talent to replace them. The MORE said about that the better eh?

landl47
on September 26, 2011, 15:21 GMT

Get real, people, this was a T20 with a bunch of young players. It'll be good experience for them. In fact, as Swann notes, England bowled and fielded very well. They just lost their heads a bit when it came to batting. This loss comes at the end of a stretch during which England won 11, lost 0, with one tie and one no result. If the Indian fans out there think this result makes England a bad side, they might want to consider how bad that makes India.

Snick_To_Backward_Point
on September 26, 2011, 15:11 GMT

Sooo many Indian cricket 'fans' posting on a Windies V Eng story. Did the 8-0 thrashing in ALL forms of the game that served to uncover the glaring difference between IPL-coated fantasy and true cricketing reality really wound your pride THAT much? Some of the comments about 'arrogance' 'luck' only playing a depleted Indian side are so irrelevant here it's almost comedic. The truth is, England are SO FAR removed from complacency within their set up that their abject failure in this T20 will be analysed, dismantled, inspected top-to-bottom and then upside down so that they LEARN from this performance. I only wish that rather than feigning wounded pride and shoring up over-inflated EGOs, some of the Indian supporters would do the same. Here's a positive suggestion for any Indian fan still in denial about where Indian cricket is seemingly headed: VOTE WITH YOUR FEET and hold your BCCI to account for allowing India's disastrous situation to come about. Blame them, not England!

jahrasta
on September 26, 2011, 14:33 GMT

so West Indies are without there first choice players because of champions league..funny tho....if you exclude gayle (which WICB has been doing anyway) only T&T are missing.....so where are all the other "good" caribbean players

dummy4fb
on September 26, 2011, 14:20 GMT

England need to take a lesson and move forward by minimizing the mistakes that they have made earlier.

dummy4fb
on September 26, 2011, 14:18 GMT

What are you on about?!

England did not lose because we didn't have Broad and Anderson playing! We lost simply because we were complacent in chasing the total.

In fact the bowling without them this match was superb without those two playing, it was the batting that let us down.

btw its hilarious how many Indian fans are commenting on us losing this game. You guys were destroyed and humiliated in the test series and were beaten comfortably in the solo 20/20 game and the one day series.

You dont have a leg to stand on at judging England losing a solitary 2020 game against Windies.

itsthewayuplay
on September 26, 2011, 14:12 GMT

I am an Indian supporter but support cricket even more. I am amazed by some of the comments from other Indian supporters who say wait till England go to India. 1st during the tests we waited on Zaheer, then we waited for the 2nd test because India are slow starters, then we waited for Sehwag, then Tendulkar's 100th 100, then Bhajji's return to form, then the ODIs and so on. It's time to stop waiting and start performing as the WIndies did last night. England lost last night but in a meaningless T20 series. Rather disingenious of Swann to say England were appalling in 2nd half of the game. So does that mean WIndies were appalling throughout Friday's game and for the 1st of last night's game. Finally to all the non-Indian supporters following Cricinfo, there are many Indian supporters with many different opinions and even we find some comments posted by fellow supportes are quite ridiculous. Please don't tarnish us all with the same brush.

dummy4fb
on September 26, 2011, 14:09 GMT

I am happy for the windies my favourite team other than the Indian one...but cannot fathom the glee of INdian fans...let us be honest and admit depending only one horse i.e. Zaheer is not the way for a team which wants to be number one....Accept the fact other than Dravid everyone of them failed....and other than Praveen Kumar all the bowlers sucked big time....it is time to look at long term....England currently is a great team and probably Pakistan in its crazy days with the bowlers they bring from no where or SA can beat them....rest of the teams better catch up

dummy4fb
on September 26, 2011, 13:58 GMT

"In England's defence, their side was missing several of its most experienced campaigners, not least Eoin Morgan, whose deft use of the angles would have been ideal for keeping the run-rate moving"

In their defense? Come on this WI team won with Gayle, Bravo (both brothers), Pollard, Sarwan, Simmons, Barath and Baugh missing from the line up. So give credit to the WI also, England wasn't the only team playing without its top players. This was by NO means a full strength WI team.

Yevghenny
on September 26, 2011, 13:34 GMT

England poor without Broad and Anderson? What about India without Zaheer Khan? Less said about that the better, eh?

ian_ghose
on September 26, 2011, 13:34 GMT

So, in this long English summer (and how splendidly an Indian summer, it wasn't ;)) we've seen 11 captains across all formats representing 5 countries.
I would rank the captains' performances as follows:-

This series (which no one really wanted) was used to blood young cricketers. No way will we play a team this callow in India or Sri Lanka, but we wanted to see which of the youngsters was ready for the next step up. No one thought they would be the finished article right away or perform consistently. I know it's terribly exciting for Indians that England have lost at last, but it doesn't mean much, and it doesn't make your team any less poor. Congratulations to the Windies.

Meety
on September 26, 2011, 12:37 GMT

@Truemans_Ghost - yep very familiar. At least your mob have the chance to have a crack! Swanny is just about the only cricketer I'd listen to these days in a press conference!

ncurd
on September 26, 2011, 11:48 GMT

Excuses? If we loose in India fair enough tis only a ODI series and a T20 in India it makes no difference to Test rankings will someone please understand being good at one format doesn't effect how good you are at another. So England will still be number 1 in the world at Tests regardless. Huge congratulations to the WIndies half way through the game they looked down and out, however unlike India despite missing many key players performed extremely well in the field and a produced a few decent balls as well to unnerve an England team that threw the game away despite not having to score that many! As for the upcoming ODI's I see India performing a lot better and we'll likely see the close series we should have seen over the Summer! The only frustrating thing will be fans of other nations saying the Test series was a fluke based on ODI games IF England loose.

Paceman49
on September 26, 2011, 11:35 GMT

I still think that W.I will be a better bowling team when they pick Benn again.If Benn had played against India and Pakistan he would of been very difficult to play on those wickets that took spin even on the first day.He had been the best W.I spinner on batsman friendly wickets for quite a while.W.I gets over the petty nonsense and they have the players to beat any country.Swann complaining about poor strokes is a joke.Laxman got out twice to Bresnan's long hop,balls that he could of hit to almost any where he wanted.I was amazed at the easy with how Indian batsmen got out to innocuous looking balls.either fishing or slashing at wide balls.which the commentators turned into good balls.Poor catching did not help India either.
W.I get your teams organized and give your fans something to cheer about.
Australia might be the country to straighten out the W.I mess.They will not allow W.I to bring an inferior team to their country.They like their stadiums filled.They like a fight.

dummy4fb
on September 26, 2011, 11:19 GMT

hahaaa...see now...i hope in october English fans will have to search for excuses, which they hate when they listen it from Indian fans

there is very little chance england will win test matches in SL and India. apart from swann, they have no good spinner. also, broad, anderson rely heavily on the pitch. if it doesnt bounce, theyll be taken to the cleaners. bresnan will perform well in my opinion as he is the hit the deck bowler.

tvumpire.com
on September 26, 2011, 10:31 GMT

ha ha ha...Engalnd were in the moon and they are back in the ground now...winning against 'Iandia A' will not be enough to prove that you are a good side...lol

dummy4fb
on September 26, 2011, 10:07 GMT

Swann said his team Rubbished. Our team Rubbished on Friday. Just give us our praise for coming back from Friday's disaster. It is also OK to give Sammy and Otis a little more ink

bumsonseats
on September 26, 2011, 9:54 GMT

i said before the 1st game.win the toss and bat. i wanted to see the young guys bat. and could not understand us not doing that. so for the 1st time this season we have tasted failure and i dont like it. after a poor 1st game, the WI boys did good and totally outplayed england. we played most of the young guys but on the day they were not good enough. swanns bravado it seemed got the better of him. so maybe hes not captain material and stick to been the best spinner in world cricket. dpk

9ST9
on September 26, 2011, 9:29 GMT

ahh India and excuses. So funny to see that each time India face a humiliating thrashing by some team, their fans always comment on the other teams news for quite a long time. Is it that they cannot get over it?

chapathishot
on September 26, 2011, 9:23 GMT

The season ended in a loss and The winter will be forgettable for England mark my words

blastu
on September 26, 2011, 9:13 GMT

@Shan156- Stop comparing india, India whitewashed england in 2008(5-0 victory) in india against full strength england(flintoff,trescothick,harmission,strauss,KP..etc).we have accepted england played well in england against injured & restless india. Dont worry sham its not so far to prove indian team are better than england. just wait & see, full strength indian team is going to crash england in india.

itsthewayuplay
on September 26, 2011, 8:55 GMT

contd Finally good to see competitive and hungry opposition albeit for the last international game in England this year in what was ultimately a pointless series. What was especially satisfying as a contest is that the some of the WIndies bowlers acclimatised very quickly and showed real skill (unlike their Indian predecessors) particularly after Friday night where they didn't look like taking a wicket (similar to their Indian predecessors).

dummy4fb
on September 26, 2011, 8:45 GMT

Really!!!!!!!!!! Can England loose? Mr.Nasir Hussain and Mr.Geofry Boycott would definitely won't believe it. They can never. Well Mr.Swann you don't have as good team as you show. In slow and low pitch even Bangladesh is better than your team. Remember in the world cup your team lost to Bangladesh and Ireland.That's cool keep making excuses but i would say WI played far better than your team as you lost by 35 runs not by 1 or 2.

itsthewayuplay
on September 26, 2011, 8:43 GMT

Batsmen will be horrified at they shots they played. I'm sure the WIndies would have felt the same after Friday night's game and tonight for the 5 wickets they lost. I hope that this is not the start of big scores being posted by opposition batsmen because of poor England bowling and low scores by England because of bad shots. The reality is that this was one of factors with India throughout thr summer. England batsmen scoring 600 and 700 plus against less than mediocre and thoughtless bowling and wickets taken against ineptitude batting barring the immense Dravid. As for England missing Morgan??? WIndies scored 118 without Gayle and co. Despite these minor gripes I still feel Engalnd have a good chance in India because they have the better spinners and pace bowlers. India simply do not have the bowlers do defend any score.

dummy4fb
on September 26, 2011, 8:30 GMT

first of all i being an indian will want to congratulate england for the great summer that they have had u r bound to have one bad game this just shows england team are also humans and i thing we should see this and make real turners in india for home series play ashwin and maybe bhajji or mishra or even abdullah with him 2 pacers plus part time spin of yuvi should do it for us with a batting line up that won the wc for us sachin (if fit) sehwag gauti virat yuvi dhoni raina rohit (if no sachin i think he should not be there we should start building team for wc 2015 though i am a huge fan of him so that his last odi memory is lifting wc at wankhede

Yevghenny
on September 26, 2011, 8:20 GMT

The victory was a mixture of inexperienced batting with some poor shots and brilliant fielding. West Indies fielded with so much enthusiasm, after we had gotten used to India rolling over in the field this was a welcome relief. West Indies reserves showed India how to do it

dummy4fb
on September 26, 2011, 7:34 GMT

It was an eye-opener for the Complacent English side. Although most of their batsmen are coming good of late, it doesn't mean that they rest their main batsmen anticipating that anyone with an English outfit with a bat in his hand will perform.

chiggers
on September 26, 2011, 7:23 GMT

England will go away from this, look at what they did wrong, and find ways of putting it right. Unlike India, who got beaten, ignored what they did wrong, and found more excuses...

Truemans_Ghost
on September 26, 2011, 6:53 GMT

Good grief! England draw a meaingless 20-20 series 1-1 and suddenly it is evidence that the rest of the summer has been pure luck. There are some remarkable cricketing minds posting on here. I do like a skipper who is prepared to say, unvarnished, "we were rubbish" when they deserve it though. Meety, a team's top spin bowler, with tactical nounce and always entertaining at press conferences but not considered worth the risk of making a permenant captain..... sound familiar?

ARJa
on September 26, 2011, 6:32 GMT

Let's make this simple. There is no defence for England for loosing. The windies team they faced was not even second string because their national team these days and their best T20 players are from T&T and they are all in India. Windies played better than England. England prepared a bad pitch and it back fired. No need to drag India into this. India lost because England were the better team in England. Just have to see what England could do in India. The truth is unlike the Windies in the 1980s and the Aussies in early 2000s, nowadays there is no real standout team. The top few teams all are two close together in performance.

chokkashokka
on September 26, 2011, 6:21 GMT

one word - shame! this windies team was missing Gayle, Bravo brothers and Pollard and Roach!! Shame would be blasphemous in the context of the losing team - leave it censorship to silence the opinions of real cricket watchers.

dummy4fb
on September 26, 2011, 6:05 GMT

England cannot say "they had key players missing" because so did WI's they had only 2 or 3 international quality players in the team and they still beat England who fielded what looked on paper to be a strong side. England batting was aweful, how can u have 4 run outs chasing less then a run a ball?? What is the urgency to run suicidal singles? The run outs cost england the game.

Shan156
on September 26, 2011, 6:01 GMT

@Ram Swaminathan, did we get lucky in the tests too? What excuses do you have for the defeat in the test series. How did invincible India manage to lose all 4 tests? All your main, first choice players played some part in the tests, yet you lost all the tests.

While England's test side is formidable and fully deserve their #1 status, their ODI side is mediocre and inexperienced. Just FYKI, Dravid and Dhoni alone had more ODIs to their name than the whole of the England XI put together. Add to this the likes of Raina and Kohli who are quite experienced in ODIs and yet you lost 0-3. How come you failed to win a single ODI even?

Roll on the excuses again.

Congrats WI. Your young team thoroughly outplayed our young team.

dummy4fb
on September 26, 2011, 5:57 GMT

mr.swann and mr.bresnan

its time to shut up and start playing alone

Front-Foot-Lunge
on September 26, 2011, 5:56 GMT

Dravid_Gravitas, you've got that one right: Swann is the world's best spinner and has been for a few years now, so it's good you can finally accept that. Plus, you should've seen the recent series between India and England, it was a real eye-opener!

Shan156
on September 26, 2011, 5:55 GMT

@Dravid_Gravitas, No way. Swann is not a patch on Indian fans when it comes to giving excuses. That said, Swann could have given more credit to the Windies. They fully deserved it. Unlike you Indian fans, we aren't going to given any excuses. We were outplayed by the better team on the day. At least, we managed to beat WI the other day and tie the series 1-1. India, OTOH,...

Cricinfo, please publish.

jmcilhinney
on September 26, 2011, 5:04 GMT

Why are people having a go at Swann? How exactly is he not taking the loss as a man? What excuses did he make? He called is own team inept, he said that the WI played well. He did say that WI didn't play well enough to have them all out for 88, but does anyone not agree? Did WI really bowl and field well enough that any international side playing well would have been out so cheaply? Swann said that WI played well and England, in various ways, contributed to their own downfall. What's wrong with that? You do know that this was a press conference, right? He can't just walk in and say "we were beaten by a better team" and walk out. People want analysis and he provided it. Nowhere did he say that WI didn't deserve to win. Nowhere did he blame the loss on external factors. People are just making things up because they want to have something negative to say. You'd think they were in a press conference with their rhetoric.

TheKingofSpain
on September 26, 2011, 5:02 GMT

@Dravid_Gravitas - what are you going on about? There's hardly one excuse up there. Most of the excuses are by Andrew Miller! I think you're trying to say that he should credit the West Indies more - but he hasn't come up with excuses. He just said England were rubbish, which they were. One thing I like about Swann is (although he tries to cover it up) he generally says what most fans are thinking and doesn't try to hide behind excuses. On a related note, I do find it amazing how many Indians want to comment on the Allen Stanford Cup!

Rahul_78
on September 26, 2011, 4:59 GMT

I have not seen any WI side fielding like this in last 20 yrs and show so much passion and desperation. What a relief from laid back attitude and casualness we are accustomed to by the Gayle and co. Kudos to Sami and Gibson for building up a team who wants to be out there for their country. Also Swann seems to have lost the plot. He should have been gracious in defeat and acknowledge the efforts of Mathurin instead of saying the batsmen played silly shot to got out to him. I would like Swann to face the delivery that bowled Bopara. It was a ripper. So glad that it may be end of an exceptional summer for Poms but someone managed to give them reality check that they are not world class against a decent spin attack.

Devon_Dumpling
on September 26, 2011, 4:40 GMT

Nice to see the Indians back after their absence after England hammered WI in the last T20! A very, very good win from th WI and they should be proud of the commitment their young team showed when fielding. This will be a very valuable lesson to the young next generation of England mainstays and make them stronger mentally.

I think Swann has been fantastically open and honest - I dont see him making any excuses anywhere in his comments (the mention of missing players was done by the article writer NOT Swan!). Unlike Dhoni (or Indians on here), he didnt mention missing players, age, fitness, IPL, rain or umpiring...he said, bluntly, there is no way we should have lost (absolutely correct) but did, through poor shots, poor judgment and by succumbing to pressure when batting. MORE international captains should be as honest as he is.

Well played WI.

Gupta.Ankur
on September 26, 2011, 4:36 GMT

See, england depend on a few players and largely on home conditions to win games........it had to happen that one of these days that luck would have run out on them.......

Looch
on September 26, 2011, 4:17 GMT

Well played West Indies, but don't forget it was only a pretendy/twenty match so it's not like you can read anything significant into it, for either side.

Meety
on September 26, 2011, 4:09 GMT

Not sure if my post made it before. This is why I think Swann should be the captain of the T20 side & any other format if the chance comes along. Who else would describe their 2nd test as captain as a "Horror Show"? Brutally honest, makes press conferences worth listening too. By the by - I think that he is tactically pretty good!

chandau
on September 26, 2011, 4:01 GMT

Will this be the last time SWANN skippers England? Part of the job is speaking to press and not lambasting ur team mates! May be he was so ashamed of the loss under his watch, he had to blame someone else. England may have been missing 3 guys - Broad, Morgan and KP, but WI in theory is basically a "B" team. If Gayle, Barath, Bravo, SAmuels, Bravo, Pollard, Ramdin, Sammy, Bishoo, Edwards, Roach were playing it would have been the WI first XI (even though Sammy is there only to captain and not conribute in anything else!). But the point is look at the names missing from the playing XI who managed to beat the England's almost first XI.
Then again ENgland won the T20 world cup by a fluke; they have lost to Sri Lanka and Australia since then in England! No need to remind the walloping at the world cup by Sri Lanka (by 10 wickets no less). Under the overcast seaming conditions they are lions but summer has a different meaninf in other countries! cheers

Dravid_Pujara_Gravitas
on September 26, 2011, 3:50 GMT

I thought Swann was a master in off-spin. He seems to be an even better master at excuses, excuses and excuses. How about simply admitting that England were outplayed by the Caribbean Tigers instead of looking for lame excuses? Give credit where it is due Swann.

PAKISTANI_WARRIORS
on September 26, 2011, 3:49 GMT

@kitten .. u realy think that indian team is like the lion in its own den i dont think so india have 4 or 5 top batsman in there odi line up but they do not have one world class bowler in the whole country i am pity sure india will lose the odi series 3-2 or 4-1 against a good, outstanding and balance english batting, bowling and fielding side

skumar_96
on September 26, 2011, 3:42 GMT

Hey guys,it's not a shocking thing that WI won. They played well and they deserved to be on the winning side, sad that this time England was not supported by weather and a injury prone team. They lost to a better team. They will now come to know that how to play CRICKET without your main players i.e. without main 5 in test and 7 in odi. We are waiting to see how they will fair against a full strength Indian team in India.

These teams will beat India NO PROBLEM...All those saying "Wait till England come to India" Yeah but I put my house on it that England will NOT get whitewashed..Yes NOT get whitewashed and may even win 3-2, 4-1 and 1-0 I am 100% sure..GO LIONS GO

SamRoy
on September 26, 2011, 3:10 GMT

Except for Strauss and Pietersen I am not convinced that the rest of current English team is all that comfortable playing quality spin. Having said that the only quality spinners in world cricket are Swann, Ajmal and Bishoo (and probably Herath though I am not entirely convinced). Among Indian spinners Harbhajan has lost it, Mishra never had bite, Ojha is too one-dimensional (was at least the last time i saw him) and Ashwin needs more experiance.

EmjayKhan104
on September 26, 2011, 2:56 GMT

England were brought down to earth with a big bang. They started to believe they were unbeatable, which was getting to their head. This is a lesson they needed. People on here who are saying "Well England were without their main players"..Come on do you really believe that? West Indies are the worst ODI team at the moment and are missing 10 of their top players but still managed to win. England were outplayed in every possible area today and now they will taste what defeats are when they meet Pakistan. Hahahahah what a farce

rienzied
on September 26, 2011, 2:49 GMT

I really hope this is not a one off for both England and West Indies...

iphone1
on September 26, 2011, 2:32 GMT

Phoenix steve, I am sure the series is anticipated. Now you are sporting the same behaviour when Aussies displayed when they were at their peak. any lessons to be learnt??

yocasi
on September 26, 2011, 2:24 GMT

Congrats to Skipper Sammy and the boys. Let Sorry Swann Simper. Somehow, I thought England fielded a team of 11 so I don't understand Swann'a whimpering.You guys hammered India and blitzed us in the first T20 so take it as a man now, Swanny boy!

jmcilhinney
on September 26, 2011, 2:22 GMT

@kaiser1, did you read something that I didn't? How is Swann not admitting that they were outplayed? He said that WI played well and he said that England played poorly. Is that not true? Do you contend that England did not contribute to their own downfall? Swann didn't belittle anyone. He admitted that his side batted poorly.

@Nick Tyler, how do you know the players aren't impressed? Which ones did you talk to? The fact that Swann is a temporary captain is irrelevant. He's the man who has to front the media at the end of the game and why would you expect him of all people not give frank answers? England batted poorly and there'd be plenty of people ready to criticise Swann if he didn't say so, just as there were for Dhoni. England pride themselves on their professionalism so the fact that it's the end of the season is no excuse.

iphone1
on September 26, 2011, 2:21 GMT

@ jmchilleney: As an Indian I completley agree with jmchilleney. There were a lot of factors which contributed to the Indian defeat, but ultimately we were defeated. The 11 available on the Park couldn't get as a victory. So Indian supporters who want to bash England, can do so after India wins the series against them (if that happens). Don't jump on any given opportunity and start criticising.

dummy4fb
on September 26, 2011, 2:18 GMT

England bragged about winning against a very very ordinary Indian Side. Now they suffer the same defeat and say blah blah . England dont deserve to be No 1 . And they go down from in the next couple of months !

RandyOZ
on September 26, 2011, 2:09 GMT

Brilliant bench strength by England HAHAHAHAHA

kitten
on September 26, 2011, 1:46 GMT

"In England's defence, their side was missing several of its most experienced campaigners". India in all fairness to them, have been playing the entire series, Tests and ODI's without most of their frontline players. And see what happened to England when they were a depleted side(not as depleted as India were). The proof of the pudding will be revealed when England take on India next month, and India will hopefully field most of their regular players, then the world will be able to judge whether this England team is really as good as some people make them out to be. I, and millions of other cricket enthusiasts around the world are eagerly waiting for the contests to start. I am sure England will perform well, but it remains to be seen whether they will 'beat the Lion in it's own den'.

jmcilhinney
on September 26, 2011, 1:43 GMT

@Ram Swaminathan, WI played better than England and that's why they won. Do you truly believe that India were just unlucky for 4 tests, 1 T20I and 5 ODIs? India played worse than England and that's why they lost, repeatedly. India are not entitled to win. They have to work for wins, just like everyone else. Attitudes like yours will cause people to work less than they should and therefore achieve less than they could. Your attitude is a perfect example of why India did poorly all summer and why England lost this game. You have to want it more than your opposition, not just believe you deserve it more. WI id deserver this win because they worked harder for it. The mental side of cricket is very important and England failed on that side in their batting, just as India failed all season.

kaiser1
on September 26, 2011, 1:24 GMT

I see a pathetic way of swan to belittle WI performance and player like Garey's figures . Its not good on his part, he should admit defeat gracefully and give credit to Windies team for that. I know they have beaten the Indian which i like the way they played but trying to belittle opposition is shameful act. After all they are an international side representing some independent states collectively.

dummy4fb
on September 26, 2011, 1:18 GMT

Swann simply refuses to admit that they were outplayed. And any lament about the absence of Eion Morgan et al can be balanced by pounting out that Windies were without Dwayne and Darren Bravo, Pollard, Simmons, Ramdin, Bharath and one coudl even consider Gayle as well as Edwards and Roach.

kAzX
on September 26, 2011, 1:10 GMT

Just shows that a decent bowling attack can bring down the english players on their knees. Cant expect Dhoni/Raina/Kohli the front line batters to bowl england out..For England to maintain their #1 status will have to pray that all the super players like sehwag/yuvraj/zaheer etc remain injured next whole season. Way to go England.

MyComments
on September 26, 2011, 0:54 GMT

This clearly shows how much planning plays a role in England performance. If you know your opponent you can plan well but against some what unknown bowlers all you need is little bit of talent and patience. This shows England will be a good opposition against a well known opposition but expect poor performance against an unknown average team due to lack of planning.

dummy4fb
on September 26, 2011, 0:46 GMT

Swann's critcism was a little over the top , end of the season and he's a temp skipper at best . Players not impressed.

Silloh
on September 26, 2011, 0:42 GMT

Well done Windies ! A win is a win especially when least expected and there was a lot of West Indian pride on that field in England today. Brought back fond memories of West Indies - in that great era destroying all teams and the small scores did not matter.

CricFan78
on September 26, 2011, 0:40 GMT

" In England's defence, their side was missing several of its most experienced campaigners " .... o yea after all when you were crowing about England's win against India the latter was always full strength

dummy4fb
on September 26, 2011, 0:39 GMT

poms getting complacent after so many wins...guess they can afford that....

Alexei
on September 26, 2011, 0:19 GMT

"The left-arm spinner, you can't argue with 3 for 9, but the three guys who got out to him will probably look at the shots they played and be pretty horrified," did he not see bopara's disimissal?? pitched on middle and hit off-stump! What could he do about that? Give the bowler all the credit man

jackiethepen
on September 26, 2011, 0:15 GMT

I forgot to say congrats to the West Indies. They showed real intelligence how they approached this game. They had learned a lot from the first one and from Swann's captaincy too. So starting with slow bowling and spinners was clever. The fielding was exceptional to match.

phoenixsteve
on September 25, 2011, 23:51 GMT

England played poorly - even naively, but in fairness the Windies were superb and defended their small total like a Grizzly protecting her cubs! Shock results are a feature of T20 and England should learn from this? Despite 'available talent' the Windies showed true team spirit and fight - that India seemed incapable of. I expect England to beat India next month but we'll see? I can't wait to read the excuses though...... now that's something India are truly world class at! COME ON ENGLAND!!!

jackiethepen
on September 25, 2011, 23:43 GMT

The point is, are these young inexperienced players too young and not good enough yet? The batting was a shambles. The rate never rose much more than a run a ball. The problem is they couldn't play spin and couldn't adjust to the pitch and slow bowling. But they are going to meet an awful lot of that in the winter and when defending the T20 title. Older and wiser heads may have helped to build partnerships. Hitting the ball out of the park is all very well - which seems to be the main criteria these days - but there are other useful skills, like staying in and rotating the strike and taking runs off spin. As for ODIs - forget it, these young players just haven't got the technical skills except how to hit out in a chase in a 20 over rain affected situation. Is that a result of playing 40-over cricket and T20? Time to bring back 50 over County cricket?

Snick_To_Backward_Point
on September 25, 2011, 23:21 GMT

Congrats Windies for an exceptional performance. As much as I love Swanny, do think he's not giving Windies their props. England's batsmen were totally bamboozled by some of the Windies bowling - perhaps this is because some of them were unkown quantities, but even so..... There was real intensity in the Windies fielding performance tonight as evidenced by 2 exceptional run outs. On a more general note, I had far more respect for the Windies tonight than for any of the Indian performances especially in the field.

dummy4fb
on September 25, 2011, 23:18 GMT

"In England's defence, their side was missing several of its most experienced campaigners".

Hey Miller, the WI is missing several experienced players too, bro.

dummy4fb
on September 25, 2011, 23:01 GMT

This is the usual England...got sheer lucky against India as India did not have as high as eight first choice players...so get real Swann! Let's see how you guys fare in the 5 ODIs in India in October...

dummy4fb
on September 25, 2011, 22:44 GMT

Congrats to West Indies, you're operating like a group of Nomads, but your determination to rise from the depths of despair will shine a bright light on your future.

Shilly77
on September 25, 2011, 22:24 GMT

Well done Garey Mathurin.
Wasn't in the squad at first but showed why he should have been!!!

No featured comments at the moment.

Shilly77
on September 25, 2011, 22:24 GMT

Well done Garey Mathurin.
Wasn't in the squad at first but showed why he should have been!!!

dummy4fb
on September 25, 2011, 22:44 GMT

Congrats to West Indies, you're operating like a group of Nomads, but your determination to rise from the depths of despair will shine a bright light on your future.

dummy4fb
on September 25, 2011, 23:01 GMT

This is the usual England...got sheer lucky against India as India did not have as high as eight first choice players...so get real Swann! Let's see how you guys fare in the 5 ODIs in India in October...

dummy4fb
on September 25, 2011, 23:18 GMT

"In England's defence, their side was missing several of its most experienced campaigners".

Hey Miller, the WI is missing several experienced players too, bro.

Snick_To_Backward_Point
on September 25, 2011, 23:21 GMT

Congrats Windies for an exceptional performance. As much as I love Swanny, do think he's not giving Windies their props. England's batsmen were totally bamboozled by some of the Windies bowling - perhaps this is because some of them were unkown quantities, but even so..... There was real intensity in the Windies fielding performance tonight as evidenced by 2 exceptional run outs. On a more general note, I had far more respect for the Windies tonight than for any of the Indian performances especially in the field.

jackiethepen
on September 25, 2011, 23:43 GMT

The point is, are these young inexperienced players too young and not good enough yet? The batting was a shambles. The rate never rose much more than a run a ball. The problem is they couldn't play spin and couldn't adjust to the pitch and slow bowling. But they are going to meet an awful lot of that in the winter and when defending the T20 title. Older and wiser heads may have helped to build partnerships. Hitting the ball out of the park is all very well - which seems to be the main criteria these days - but there are other useful skills, like staying in and rotating the strike and taking runs off spin. As for ODIs - forget it, these young players just haven't got the technical skills except how to hit out in a chase in a 20 over rain affected situation. Is that a result of playing 40-over cricket and T20? Time to bring back 50 over County cricket?

phoenixsteve
on September 25, 2011, 23:51 GMT

England played poorly - even naively, but in fairness the Windies were superb and defended their small total like a Grizzly protecting her cubs! Shock results are a feature of T20 and England should learn from this? Despite 'available talent' the Windies showed true team spirit and fight - that India seemed incapable of. I expect England to beat India next month but we'll see? I can't wait to read the excuses though...... now that's something India are truly world class at! COME ON ENGLAND!!!

jackiethepen
on September 26, 2011, 0:15 GMT

I forgot to say congrats to the West Indies. They showed real intelligence how they approached this game. They had learned a lot from the first one and from Swann's captaincy too. So starting with slow bowling and spinners was clever. The fielding was exceptional to match.

Alexei
on September 26, 2011, 0:19 GMT

"The left-arm spinner, you can't argue with 3 for 9, but the three guys who got out to him will probably look at the shots they played and be pretty horrified," did he not see bopara's disimissal?? pitched on middle and hit off-stump! What could he do about that? Give the bowler all the credit man

dummy4fb
on September 26, 2011, 0:39 GMT

poms getting complacent after so many wins...guess they can afford that....