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^I'm blaming what? "Nothing wrong with that" means, well, exactly it means. People just have tendencies to miss the date and someone will probably quote TRL's one year old post if I don't write that in bold.

Besides, on your opinion about what belongs where, why should they even listen to you and miss all the money they make in box offices each time they release the so-called animation showcases to the Japanese public?

I didnt say they should, thats just what I would do.

And I dont know what goes on in Japan, but in my country the recent Ghibli stuff hasnt done well because they shirk plot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by totoum

If you're unsure about creating a new thread or bringing back an old one you can always ask a mod which one they'd rather have you do before doing something,it's worked for me before.

What I'm sure of is that I'll get in trouble if I make a new thread for a topic that's even slightly related to a topic already existing. It has happened many times.

And just FYI for people who don't pay much attention to dates: The thread is necro'd by Kudryavka, three posts above me. Nothing wrong with that, but people should know and don't respond to a conversation that ended eons ago when the sun was young and the world was green.

Oh my.. I didn't noticed it....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irenicus

Uh, Ghibli doesn't sell moe. Their audience is the general public, the family-friendly general public. The moe phenomenon has nothing to do with it. Miyazaki even looks down on it, inferring from his general distaste of the overall anime industry.

IMHO it does... moe sells as ecchi does..... But I loved Ghibli you know... I missed their movies.... Probably the kids back then are after the mature stuffs today.... and knowing they enjoyed such shows in the past creeps them out now... LOLSss Ghioli's standing to keep their originality in terms of story and target audience cause it...

IMHO it does... moe sells as ecchi does..... But I loved Ghibli you know... I missed their movies.... Probably the kids back then are after the mature stuffs.... and knwoing they enjoyed such shows in the past creeps them out now... LOLSss

My statement is close enough to fact there, actually. It's not so much a matter of individual opinion as a matter of commonly accepted, if not completely provable, knowledge.

Namely, that Ghibli segregates itself from the anime subculture and creates family-friendly [keyword: family], widely popular works the way Disney does in the United States. Saying you like a Ghibli film is like saying you like a Disney film -- you can talk about it with your coworkers and nobody bats an eye (unless you're being obsessive about it). You can't do that with Madoka Magica or whatever without some social risks. People who go to watch Ghibli films in movie theaters include a very wide range of the Japanese population, some of which will never touch anime as we know it.

Saying you like a Ghibli film is like saying you like a Disney film -- you can talk about it with your coworkers and nobody bats an eye (unless you're being obsessive about it). You can't do that with Madoka Magica or whatever without some social risks. People who go to watch Ghibli films in movie theaters include a very wide range of the Japanese population, some of which will never touch anime as we know it.

It's a different audience, different "phenomenon."

To add to what you say,I doubt the majority of the ghibli audience even knows what the word "moe" is.

Ghibli doesn't care about what sells to otakus because their market is much larger than that.You don't need to look further than their next two movies currently in development to see they don't care.

Saying you like a Ghibli film is like saying you like a Disney film --

I don't watch Disney anymore, other than family.. I find it more of childish....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irenicus

It's a different audience, different "phenomenon."

I agree. People have different opinions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by totoum

To add to what you say,I doubt the majority of the ghibli audience even knows what the word "moe" is.

Ghibli doesn't care about what sells to otakus because their market is much larger than that.You don't need to look further than their next two movies currently in development to see they don't care.

Too bad for some otakus... I say... Too bad they're not the only audience who knows how to watch movies.... So they critisize Ghibli because their food doesn't fit the taste of present otakus? Now that is sad...

That has nothing to do with why I dont like Ghibli stuff anymore. And don't call me an otaku, I have friends and leave my house for sunshine all the time and dont spend every minute of my life on the computer watching anime or jacking off to moe or killing girls or saying 2D > 3D. I hate that phrase, it's so sad and pathetic.

That has nothing to do with why I dont like Ghibli stuff anymore. And don't call me an otaku, I have friends and leave my house for sunshine all the time and dont spend every minute of my life on the computer watching anime or jacking off to moe or killing girls or saying 2D > 3D. I hate that phrase, it's so sad and pathetic.

1) Miyazaki is Ghibli. Ghibli is Miyazaki. It's kind of like Apple and Steve Jobs (and look how Apple is now struggling with Jobs passed on). This is fine, even good, as long as "the big guy" is alive and contributing as well as he ever did. But at some point, you need to find someone who can effectively carry on your legacy, and unfortunately, Miyazaki doesn't appear to have been able to.

2) With 1) in mind, Ghibli is too segregated from the rest of the anime industry for its own good. Don't get me wrong - I'm not making this criticism from any sort of ideological perspective, but moreso from a simple practical one. Ghibli probably has a hard time finding fresh talent because it cuts itself off from much of the talent out there that's interested in the world of anime. I can certainly understand and respect Ghibli wanting to "stay classy", high-brow, and family-friendly, because those have become some of the core defining strengths of Ghibli and its brand. But as KyoAni has shown, you can do that without totally rejecting the rest of the anime world.

Sad to say, but I doubt Ghibli will ever regain its past glories. Though I'd love to be surprised here.

Now, for a side-issue...

Quote:

Originally Posted by totoum

Not ghibli but a movie like Redline completely neglects its story in favor of visuals and I love it,hell I even appreciate there being little story,it doesn't need one.

I thought Redline had a decent plot and a good story. Its visuals was definitely its strongest appeal, but it's not like the plot was full of all sorts of totally random stuff that made it hard to follow, or that the story was so flimsy you couldn't care about the characters. I cared about the major protagonists in Redline.

So to say that "Redline completely neglects its story" is more than just exaggeration, its downright false. I would not have liked Redline anywhere near as much as I did if it had completely neglected its story.

1) Miyazaki is Ghibli. Ghibli is Miyazaki. It's kind of like Apple and Steve Jobs (and look how Apple is now struggling with Jobs passed on). This is fine, even good, as long as "the big guy" is alive and contributing as well as he ever did. But at some point, you need to find someone who can effectively carry on your legacy, and unfortunately, Miyazaki doesn't appear to have been able to.

2) With 1) in mind, Ghibli is too segregated from the rest of the anime industry for its own good. Don't get me wrong - I'm not making this criticism from any sort of ideological perspective, but moreso from a simple practical one. Ghibli probably has a hard time finding fresh talent because it cuts itself off from much of the talent out there that's interested in the world of anime. I can certainly understand and respect Ghibli wanting to "stay classy", high-brow, and family-friendly, because those have become some of the core defining strengths of Ghibli and its brand. But as KyoAni has shown, you can do that without totally rejecting the rest of the anime world.

Sad to say, but I doubt Ghibli will ever regain its past glories. Though I'd love to be surprised here.

Now, for a side-issue...

I thought Redline had a decent plot and a good story. Its visuals was definitely its strongest appeal, but it's not like the plot was full of all sorts of totally random stuff that made it hard to follow, or that the story was so flimsy you couldn't care about the characters. I cared about the major protagonists in Redline.

So to say that "Redline completely neglects its story" is more than just exaggeration, its downright false. I would not have liked Redline anywhere near as much as I did if it had completely neglected its story.

I'd hesitate to define KyoAni as "classy" what with all of the airhead plotless (and comedyless, so no calling it slapstick please) moe pandering they've taken kindly to as of late.

Though they seem to be looking up with Nichijou and Hyouka. And that one with the Chuu... long name I guess (but I haven't seen that so not sure).

Also to add, I'm not saying I think slice of life is terrible. But Keion, mainly S2, was not interesting slice of life, it was obvious moe money pandering. Fine if that's what you gotta do to file your taxes, but not respectable for the most part.

No. I gave specific reasons why I think the way I do, not just say "new stuff is bad!".

Sorry if you can't read past a new anime hating surface.

Content wise it's pretty the same as those topics. They also gave their opinion and reasons why they don't like the more recent animes compared to the old ones.
It's like me saying that i don't like any George Lucas films for the past 20 years for having less innovations than his earlier work. Plus the special effects in his more recent movies are far less groundbreaking than what Star Wars did back then.

Content wise it's pretty the same as those topics. They also gave their opinion and reasons why they don't like the more recent animes compared to the old ones.
It's like me saying that i don't like any George Lucas films for the past 20 years for having less innovations than his earlier work. Plus the special effects in his more recent movies are far less groundbreaking than what Star Wars did back then.

It's not wrong but the subject of complaining about the more recent stuff compared to the "nostalgic" old stuff has been overdone so many times that it's not funny.
Your necro is essentially the same rant (but more limited to Ghibli) that ended being closed in the other topics .

It's not wrong but the subject of complaining about the more recent stuff compared to the "nostalgic" old stuff has been overdone so many times that it's not funny.
Your necro is essentially the same rant (but more limited to Ghibli) that ended being closed in the other topics .

Do you really think that nostalgia is the only, or even the main, reason some may feel that Ghibli's latest works don't compare well to its older ones?

Nostalgia does bias and twist some discussions that compare new to old. But I really don't think that's what's going on here, and that makes a big difference, imo.

Plus, people on this thread aren't just comparing more recent Ghibli works to older ones, they're also expressing concerns over more fundamental issues (such as "Is there anybody inside Ghibli capable of carrying on Miyazaki's legacy?").

Do you really think that nostalgia is the only, or even the main, reason some may feel that Ghibli's latest works don't compare well to its older ones?

Nostalgia really does bias and twist some discussions that compare new to old. But I really don't think that's what's going on here, and that makes a big difference, imo.

Plus, people on this thread aren't just comparing more recent Ghibli works to older ones, they're also expressing concerns over more fundamental issues (such as "Is there anybody inside Ghibli capable of carrying on Miyazaki's legacy?").

Depends on your view, IMO no matter what movie they will bring out from now on, it will always be compared to Miyazaki's previous work simply because it has the tag "Ghibli" (i know it's shallow, but seeing that many people generalize certain things) on it and the fact that there were some great movies in the past.
edit:
And some of them are very and i mean very hard to surpass.

I'm not about the nostalgia, hyl. I'm talking about the movies themselves, and nowhere did I suggest that Ponyo is lacking just because it's new.

And as I'm sure you understand, a necro was inevitable. Either I post here and necro, or I make a new thread (the smart thing to do) and a mod moves the thread here, so the thread gets necroed anyway and you blame me for necroing anyway. Only diff is that the latter way ends up with me getting an infraction.