Explain to me how I haven't answered your questions. How can I better allay your concerns, as they seem to have become the focus of this thread, in conjunction with judging myself and everyone else you see fit?

My concern is that you are lecturing others on humility on a thread with completely another subject, and laid down some "must".

And, OF COURSE, I DON'T GIVE A D@$%^&* WHAT A CARDINAL NEED FAST OF SLOW.

He is free to renounce errors and heresies today, and immediatelly become my brother. It's his choice he, and his flock, are separated from us.

Okay, well, I've done my best to say what I think in a loving Christian manner. I have not tried to "lecture" anyone. I even said that my tone may sound opposite of what it in fact is. My purpose in discussing humility was saying that it is required of us by Christ, not anyone else, and that we should all (myself included) exercise it when attempting to bring the churches back into unity. If it sounded like a lecture, then I apologize.

Pesbytera=Popadija Mari...With all do respect to you being a priests wife,also you being a former catholic,you seem to want over look the vast differences between us and the catholic church from my understanding of reading your posts..sorry we can't do that..Let his Holiness the Ecumenical Patriarch do what he wants,i and millions of orthodox won't follow him in this till rome gives up all it's heresies...I myself really don't want reunion with them ..let them stay on their side of the fence ,but again its not what i want but what the lord wants that matters and when that happen it will be his will ...and ill wait for it...Hope your not influencing you priest husband in this...also being a priest or priests wife dosen't make one a saint that knows it all....example below...At the serbian church the popadija and the priest didn't do a good job to educate their own daughter ,they let her do what she wanted,and she did ,,,she became pregnant the metropolitan threw them out....He warned them to correct their daughter many many times..they didn't heed the warning...so they had to go...

Stashko,

Please understand, I do NOT want to overlook the differences between us and the RCC. It is exactly the opposite. I very firmly believe that no unity can be reached without truth--- truth means that the differences that separate us have to be overcome. This does not mean we should give up our faith, our beliefs, etc. All I have been trying to say is that when we come to the table, we should do so with humility, with love, with forgiveness, with open arms as the father to the prodigal son (as someone else pointed out). I have a hard time understanding where the problem is with what I think? If there's something wrong with what I'm saying, someone please point it out to me...

You began your post with "all due respect" and then proceeded to comment on my relationship with my husband and his priesthood. This is NONE of your business. You have NO right whatsoever to talk about my relationship with him and his priesthood. I'll ask you not to do that again. Furthermore, I am quite well aware that being a priest's wife does not make me a saint. I never claimed that, and I do NOT need YOU to point that out to me. Leave that to my spiritual father. He's quite familiar with my beliefs and my heart. And he is well equipped to minister to me. Don't worry your pretty little head about it.

I feel sad that you want anyone, Catholic or otherwise, to "stay on their side of the fence." Christ called us to bring others to Him, did He not? It makes me sad that you would desire for others not to come into the Church. But whatever floats your boat...

What does your former priest/his wife's inability to educate their daughter have to do with me? It sounds to me like you are telling me this as a cautionary tale, as though you think that you can judge by a few posts on the internet that I and my husband are incapable of educating our (nonexistent) children. I think that's a little unnecessary.

And by the way, I was only Catholic until the age of two. My father is Greek and has always been Orthodox. I have grown up in the Church. The only reason I was baptized Catholic was because a bad ORTHODOX priest INCORRECTLY and UNJUSTLY told my parents he wouldn't marry them. His proistamenos corrected the situation when he found out.

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Whoever receives one little child like this in My name receives Me.Matthew 18:5

I've been reading this thread and I just cannot believe what I'm reading!

To orthodoxlurker:

You seem to have a contempt of the West and anything "western". Perhaps I'm perceiving incorrectly but that is how your posts come across. What's funny is that you're Serbian Orthodox, which is hardly the most "Eastern" of the Eastern Churches.

Anti-western bias is simply out of fear or perhaps misunderstanding of the West. Presbytera already explained that she doesn't want unity with Rome to come until Rome corrects it's dogmatic errors. But I suspect if tomorrow Rome repudiated the Filioque, Papal supremacy, the IC and the other Papal dogmas you'd still be against union because they don't use our liturgy, or they have statues, or they use Gregorian Chant, ie: they are too "latin" or western.

I admit, my perception could be totally wrong, but this is at least how your posts come off. Maybe you're not even aware of it. Maybe it's a cultural difference or something, but this is how I perceive it. Secondly, how do you think a Catholic feels when they read your posts? Good grief, why would ANYONE want to become Orthodox when they see such infighting not only between EO and OO, but such perceived anger at an EO Presbytera? (again, it could be a perception of the internet, and not really what is going on)

You've had Presbytera Mari repeat herself over and over again and still you do not read her words, but interprate them according to your own context. She's said about 3 or 4 times she doesn't accept the "branch theory", that Orthodoxy is the one true Church etc...

Lastly as far as whether Rome's Sacraments are valid, I find it funny that some Orthodox KNOW they don't have grace, and yet, the ancient Church accepted Arian baptisms. With that logic, Catholics are worse than Arians....I'm sorry, but that's total nonsense, and in the end it boils down to what God wants and decides. If God has so chosen to keep grace in Rome's Sacraments then that's His business and not ours. We shouldn't be judging such things that we cannot know about.

Sorry if I've misunderstood your words, but this is my impression from reading this thread.

Let his Holiness the Ecumenical Patriarch do what he wants,i and millions of orthodox won't follow him in this till rome gives up all it's heresies...I myself really don't want reunion with them ..let them stay on their side of the fence

What else can explain such a statement other than outright anti-western/anti-latin sentiment? As I posted to orthodoxlurker, there is no other apparent explanation.

Quote

but again its not what i want but what the lord wants that matters and when that happen it will be his will

That's a good attitude we should all have. However it is also God's will for us to have good relations with people we disagree with, including "those Latins".

...I myself really don't want reunion with them ..let them stay on their side of the fence

What else can explain such a statement other than outright anti-western/anti-latin sentiment?

If I'm allowed to comment my brother's stance:

Let them stay "on the other side of the fence" (stay "them"), because they are not us. Unless, of course, they become "us", which each and every one of them, and all together, can easily do any day, as did, for instance, our beloved Fr. Ambrose.

BTW, usually, those of "them" who became "us" are the best ones among us, just like Fr. Ambrose (a.k.a. Irish Hermit).

It's about the identity.

« Last Edit: October 13, 2008, 12:59:01 PM by orthodoxlurker »

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Curse the Pope, for he is the root and cause of these disasters! - St. Nektarios of Aegina

You don't get to circumvent your post moderation by calling out the moderators in your signature. ~Veniamin, Global Moderator

Yes, we Catholics believe that the Eastern Orthodox are missing something, are not quite right. But how does that conflict with our desire for unity? In fact, the biggest thing that we think you are lacking is full communion with Christ's Church.

OK, I have to ask this...I've asked before elsewhere and not gotten a good answer, and it really bothers me. From a Catholic POV, what exactly is the Orthodox Church missing? The Catholic Church says the Orthodox Church has apostolic succession, and valid sacraments, which to my limited understanding would mean that the Eucharist in the Orthodox Church is the body and blood of our Lord. If they have that, then how can they be missing something? Is submitting to the Pope what it comes down to? But then doesn't that put the Pope, a man, above Jesus in the Eucharist?

I willingly admit my understanding could be way off of these things, but I just don't understand how the Orthodox Church can have the Real Presence, and yet be missing something.

I'll go try to dig up the recent document referenced earlier.

No It does not put him above Jesus. I am not sure I understand why you would think this. We believe that Jesus intended all Christians to be under the Pope and that the EO Church is missing this. We believe that what is missing is communion with Christ's Church.

Fixed quote tags -PtA

« Last Edit: October 13, 2008, 05:07:34 PM by PeterTheAleut »

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You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Lastly as far as whether Rome's Sacraments are valid, I find it funny that some Orthodox KNOW they don't have grace, and yet, the ancient Church accepted Arian baptisms. With that logic, Catholics are worse than Arians....I'm sorry, but that's total nonsense, and in the end it boils down to what God wants and decides.

But, the point is there is nothing wrong in your above statement, and I never held anything else. For the record, my belief is not that a RC cannot be saved. And this is one of the two wrong assumptions in your post, unlike some other posters whom made half a dozen of them per post.

But I suspect if tomorrow Rome repudiated the Filioque, Papal supremacy, the IC and the other Papal dogmas you'd still be against union because they don't use our liturgy, or they have statues, or they use Gregorian Chant, ie: they are too "latin" or western.

Well, this is just your assumption about something I never said. Let them renounce them, so they become our brothers and sisters. But why they don't do it? They already know they are wrong about filioque.

I don't expect them to do anything for the sake of unity. They shouldn't do that. They should do that for the sake of their own condition, to heal themselves, and let us help them healing if they want. And unity would come as a consequence.

But no, they don't want that. They don't feel they need healing, all they do is double speaking about some "unity" which would actually be unity in errors, heresies, doom and "submission" to the Roman Pope.

I won't do that.

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Curse the Pope, for he is the root and cause of these disasters! - St. Nektarios of Aegina

You don't get to circumvent your post moderation by calling out the moderators in your signature. ~Veniamin, Global Moderator

Though she hasn't offended me, I've repeated several times my complaint, so I'm repeating it just once again because it is you who is asking:

When a RC bishop mandates to an Orthodox Patriarch (whom, btw, is planned to be "isolated" as spelled out be certain Metroplitan last year), that he, a RC bishop, "needs unity fast", (although he can achieve the unity today), there is NOTHING AND NOBODY whom I'd tolerate in speaking about humility of any Orthodox who is expressing dissgusst, outrage and, if you like, is expressing his willingness to cast stones.

Switching to my personal sinfullness as a response is a bad choice of answer, since, though I have much to confess, nothing of it will go to internet confession, while the statement:

"I don't give a da^&(# what a RC bishop needs slow or fast" as the answer to a RC's bishop call for "unity fast" will NEVER be confessed by me as my sin, since it isn't.

And I'll repeat it three times a day.

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Curse the Pope, for he is the root and cause of these disasters! - St. Nektarios of Aegina

You don't get to circumvent your post moderation by calling out the moderators in your signature. ~Veniamin, Global Moderator

...I myself really don't want reunion with them ..let them stay on their side of the fence

What else can explain such a statement other than outright anti-western/anti-latin sentiment?

If I'm allowed to comment my brother's stance:

Let them stay "on the other side of the fence" (stay "them"), because they are not us. Unless, of course, they become "us", which each and every one of them, and all together, can easily do any day, as did, for instance, our beloved Fr. Ambrose.

BTW, usually, those of "them" who became "us" are the best ones among us, just like Fr. Ambrose (a.k.a. Irish Hermit).

It's about the identity.

You did a Great job Brother,, explaining what i really meant....thank you.....