Tony tweets; "Good race. Lots and lots of work to do. Blown diffuser our last hope for midfield this year. But will develop conventional aero."

Not sure what it means.

On a sidenote, while Caterham not good this year, his QPR side is having a nightmare as well. Sometimes I quite pity this fella. He's got to fend off attacks from all corners everyday. He uses twitter for his ads, hot air, and stuffs, but its a double edged sword.

Tony tweets; "Good race. Lots and lots of work to do. Blown diffuser our last hope for midfield this year. But will develop conventional aero."

Not sure what it means.

It probably means that midfield hopes are over for Caterham in this season, since the blown diffuser failed to deliver. Now Caterham concentrates on the conventional aero development, which brings results slower but more reliably.

At least that's what I hope Tony means. Doesn't make much sense to waste resources trying to make the blown diffuser work in the last races, because it will be banned next year.

It probably means that midfield hopes are over for Caterham in this season, since the blown diffuser failed to deliver. Now Caterham concentrates on the conventional aero development, which brings results slower but more reliably.

Doesn't make much sense to waste resources trying to make the blown diffuser work in the last races, because it will be banned next year.

Hope it brings better results and a steeper progress for the team. Even McLaren was exhausted with the research but with their size, they managed.

I really tried hard to decode what you said, but you are using a bad translator. Alas, I failed.

I meant that the blue flags show much earlier than you see in the mirror pursuers. If you just slow down, you lose a lot. And why? if there is no one in the mirror? Usually the radio alerts the event race engineer. The radio does not work.

It probably means that midfield hopes are over for Caterham in this season, since the blown diffuser failed to deliver. Now Caterham concentrates on the conventional aero development, which brings results slower but more reliably.

At least that's what I hope Tony means. Doesn't make much sense to waste resources trying to make the blown diffuser work in the last races, because it will be banned next year.

Passive Blowing of diffusers are not banned next year. So unless you master that technology you will always be behind the development curve.

Passive Blowing of diffusers are not banned next year. So unless you master that technology you will always be behind the development curve.

The rules were changed for this year, with the intention of excluding all possibilities to create downforce from the exhaust gases. But some teams found clever workarounds and are still using exhausts for this purpose. So for next year there will be further changes to the rules, making sure that exhausts can't be used any more to improve the aerodynamics of cars.

It doesn't fit well with the "green thinking" that F1 teams try to produce as much exhaust gases as they can.

Passive Blowing of diffusers are not banned next year. So unless you master that technology you will always be behind the development curve.

Here's my theory.

I wonder if the buying of RedBull rear end has a detrimental effect of the progress since it was customized to their car, whereas Caterham needs to adapt and when one doesn't actually understand the concept, just makes it harder to redesign as readily, for example like repositioning the exhaust in the sidepods to coerce the plume back to the tail pipe and diffuser to increase downforce.

The rules were changed for this year, with the intention of excluding all possibilities to create downforce from the exhaust gases. But some teams found clever workarounds and are still using exhausts for this purpose. So for next year there will be further changes to the rules, making sure that exhausts can't be used any more to improve the aerodynamics of cars.

It doesn't fit well with the "green thinking" that F1 teams try to produce as much exhaust gases as they can.

You'll have to forgive me, but I was bored enough to look through the 2013 technical regs. The basic tenet of which is to allow a cosmetic faring to cover the stepped nose and the banning of double DRS systems. Exhaust tail pipes will still be tightly constrained as to where they exit but there's nothing there banning Coanda exhausts. Unless they get unanimous agreement these things will still exhist.

You'll have to forgive me, but I was bored enough to look through the 2013 technical regs. The basic tenet of which is to allow a cosmetic faring to cover the stepped nose and the banning of double DRS systems. Exhaust tail pipes will still be tightly constrained as to where they exit but there's nothing there banning Coanda exhausts. Unless they get unanimous agreement these things will still exhist.

Yes, that's the important bit that aims to stop teams from using exhausts for aerodynamic purposes.

I haven't actually read the regs, just assumed that since Charlie Whiting said earlier this year that the regs about blown diffuser may need to be changed for 2013, then that's what is going to happen. Strange, though, that Whiting clearly considered the current use of exhaust gases for aerodynamic effect to be against the regs, and yet the FIA has apparently done nothing to stop it.

I haven't actually read the regs, just assumed that since Charlie Whiting said earlier this year that the regs about blown diffuser may need to be changed for 2013, then that's what is going to happen. Strange, though, that Whiting clearly considered the current use of exhaust gases for aerodynamic effect to be against the regs, and yet the FIA has apparently done nothing to stop it.

The teams probably decided that it doesn't make much sense to introduce new exhaust regulations for just one year, especially with pretty much everyone having a working coanda exhaust already. Well, the big teams at least.

Sad to say, we can't compete at the same level as RedBull and Lotus, for example since their resources are so much bigger like 650 and 550 people respectively.

Mark Smith mentioned something like; If you can make it work then there’s a decent chunk of performance in it. However, what we don’t want to do, because we are resource limited, is put too much emphasis on that, to the degree that our ‘bread and butter’ development gradient begins to suffer. It’s a bit of a balancing act ......”

Not sure if we are going to continue working on it on a smaller scale. But since Tony said, move to more conventional aero, .... I wonder if the team is just going to compete with Marussia and HRT, since all midfield teams do have a working solution. Even Marussia has based on recent results, a working blown exhaust solution

first time in this thread ... of all the new teams, i'd say i was looking forward for Cateham to show some progress.

here's my thought of CTF1, they are preety well funded among the new teams, look at the sponsors ... EADS, GE etc. i think one of the hinderence has been the engineering direction taken by Gascoyne, last month, Christiano DA MAtta gave his piece of mind on gascoyne saying he ruined ToyotaF1. i know now that Mark Smith has taken over engineering, but the car is penned by gascoyne.

Look at marussia, eversince john booth/pat symonds came on board, there car has improved dramatically, they ever use coanda blown exhaust (rudamentary but works). i think for Caterham, need to sort there engineering department out, find some new recruit, they could've tried to snatch James keys (ex-sauber), but toro-rosso beat them to that.

so, i don't know what's going on with Caterham, i'd like to see them fight with toro rosso/FI, specially the effort put in by Heikki. so let's see what happens in the future. but one thing for certain, if marussia had KERS, i'm pretty sure they'd have dominated Caterham by now this season.

The teams probably decided that it doesn't make much sense to introduce new exhaust regulations for just one year, especially with pretty much everyone having a working coanda exhaust already. Well, the big teams at least.

I just found curious how the FIA seems to be have adopted a passive stance in this matter. The teams do indeed seem to run the show instead of the FIA.

Christian Horner has said the rival teams wanted to level the playing field by removing blown diffusers because that was an area where Red Bull excelled. So some of the teams apparently complained to the FIA that using exhausts to improve aerodynamics infringes the rules, and the FIA reacted by changing the technical regulations for this year. And now, when Red Bull's main advantage has been taken away, the leading teams see no problem in using the exhaust gases for aerodynamic purposes -- and neither does the FIA.

But back on topic. Even though the exhaust system can still be used next year to gain extra downforce, Caterham needs to first fix the shortcomings in the basic aero performance of the CT01. Lotus and Williams have had pretty competitive cars this year without playing too much with their exhaust layout. But take the KERS away from Caterham, and they'd struggle to match Marussia's pace. And at the same time as Marussia has closed the gap to Caterham, Caterham's gap to the midfield has been stretching wider and wider. So the reason why Marussia has been catching up is not because Marussia has made exceptional progress, it's more because Caterham's progress has been very poor.

From this point of view, spending a large amount of Caterham's limited resources on tweaking the exhausts (the Silverstone upgrade package was focused on squeezing extra downforce from exhausts) has been an attempt to run before they can walk. Last year their car lacked downforce in comparison to the midfield teams, and Caterham should have spent this year improving the basic aero performance of the car instead of jumping straight to the advanced stuff like exhaust tweaks. But I think Caterham has learned a lession and won't make the same mistake again.

So the reason why Marussia has been catching up is not because Marussia has made exceptional progress, it's more because Caterham's progress has been very poor.

Mark Smith;".... we know that Marussia has closed the gap and have made lots of big progress."

I think we should give credit where credit is due. Regarding exhaust system, I have learned that Caterham is still working hard to find a solution. Trying new bits and partsin FP, because they don't model well in the wind tunnel.

first time in this thread ... of all the new teams, i'd say i was looking forward for Cateham to show some progress.

here's my thought of CTF1, they are preety well funded among the new teams, look at the sponsors ... EADS, GE etc. i think one of the hinderence has been the engineering direction taken by Gascoyne, last month, Christiano DA MAtta gave his piece of mind on gascoyne saying he ruined ToyotaF1. i know now that Mark Smith has taken over engineering, but the car is penned by gascoyne.

Look at marussia, eversince john booth/pat symonds came on board, there car has improved dramatically, they ever use coanda blown exhaust (rudamentary but works). i think for Caterham, need to sort there engineering department out, find some new recruit, they could've tried to snatch James keys (ex-sauber), but toro-rosso beat them to that.

so, i don't know what's going on with Caterham, i'd like to see them fight with toro rosso/FI, specially the effort put in by Heikki. so let's see what happens in the future. but one thing for certain, if marussia had KERS, i'm pretty sure they'd have dominated Caterham by now this season.

I'm not sure why Caterham fans always think they can take the fight to Force India, you guys have been saying that ever since Caterham have been in the sport (as Lotus or whatever). Yet Force India has thumped them (and other, more established outfits) since 2010. Maybe Toro Rosso, but even that is an ask considering they have the finances of Red Bull backing them.

Even when Williams had one of their worst cars and seasons in history (2011), this team couldn't take advantage of it...

I'm not sure why Caterham fans always think they can take the fight to Force India, you guys have been saying that ever since Caterham have been in the sport (as Lotus or whatever). Yet Force India has thumped them (and other, more established outfits) since 2010. Maybe Toro Rosso, but even that is an ask considering they have the finances of Red Bull backing them.

Even when Williams had one of their worst cars and seasons in history (2011), this team couldn't take advantage of it...

before 2009, no one thought Red bull can take the fight to Macca/Ferrari, they did it, didn't they??? reagarding williams in 2011, caterham didn't have KERS. also, williams has been developing and setting up cars since 70's,Caterham since 2010. yes, they haven't done as much as they should've, but the same can be said about Toro Rosso for not challenging midfield too often.

I'm not sure why Caterham fans always think they can take the fight to Force India, you guys have been saying that ever since Caterham have been in the sport (as Lotus or whatever). Yet Force India has thumped them ....

We don't now, while the team is scratching their heads trying to close the 1.5-2s gap. Probably next year, we'll dream again.

FI has done a really good job fighting with the big guys, with Mallya's support, carrying the F1 torch when his entire Kingfisher fleet is grounded is by no means, an easy feat.

But back on topic. Even though the exhaust system can still be used next year to gain extra downforce, Caterham needs to first fix the shortcomings in the basic aero performance of the CT01. Lotus and Williams have had pretty competitive cars this year without playing too much with their exhaust layout. But take the KERS away from Caterham, and they'd struggle to match Marussia's pace. And at the same time as Marussia has closed the gap to Caterham, Caterham's gap to the midfield has been stretching wider and wider. So the reason why Marussia has been catching up is not because Marussia has made exceptional progress, it's more because Caterham's progress has been very poor.

You have got part of it right, Marussia's sudden leap of performance is more bound to the CT01 going backwards.At the first races we saw there was some potential, in pre-season Toro Rosso said the CT01 could score points. The turning point came with the «upgrade package», it may be coincidence, but all gaps were called out once they started to use it. I guess we can only expeculate on how untested the package was or how complex it was that the team never really recreated the results they had in numbers.As for upgrades, I had predicted earlier that the move would handicap them.It will hurt, but maybe this pain is necessary to apply some sanitation.

Mark Smith;".... we know that Marussia has closed the gap and have made lots of big progress."

I think we should give credit where credit is due. Regarding exhaust system, I have learned that Caterham is still working hard to find a solution. Trying new bits and partsin FP, because they don't model well in the wind tunnel.

Good news.

Coanda exhaust like KERS are known performance differentiators so you have to run them. A case in point being that Lotus are now adopting the concept. On the technical side a big question mark remains around Mark Smith's ability. During Renault's championship winning years he basked in the reflected glory of Tim Densham.

If the team wants to develop it is to leave the two fast and competent pilots: Heikki Kovalainen and Vitaly Petrov. They know the car and make the drive! (Even with this not effective car)!

That could have been the most adequate decision if Tony wanted to move up the grid. Throughout whole this season i saw nothing that would fit this theory, except may be moving to a new base, which really can help the team. But still they claim that there will be no significant changes in 2013 car and that upsets me a lot. Other teams will build new cars or at least upgrade current. Look at Marussia, they were behind Caterham a lot in the beginning of 2012 and now they baldly kicking green crocodiles ass. And i'm sure, unlike us, they will progress next year.

More strong rumors are flying around that Pic has already signed with Caterham and here's the news, Renault Managing Director, Jean-Francois Caubet
has welcomed the move and may persuade the French oil company TOTAL to back the Caterham team.

->If the team wants to develop it is to leave the two fast and competent pilots: Heikki Kovalainen and Vitaly Petrov. They know the car and make the drive! (Even with this not ->effective car)!

That could have been the most adequate decision if Tony wanted to move up the grid. Throughout whole this season i saw nothing that would fit this theory, except may be moving to a new base, which really can help the team. But still they claim that there will be no significant changes in 2013 car and that upsets me a lot. Other teams will build new cars or at least upgrade current. Look at Marussia, they were behind Caterham a lot in the beginning of 2012 and now they baldly kicking green crocodiles ass. And i'm sure, unlike us, they will progress next year.

I agree with you... And as for me, - I always for adequate! In life and course F1 it is necessary.Without patience and strengths - no successful achievements!

More strong rumors are flying around that Pic has already signed with Caterham and here's the news, Renault Managing Director, Jean-Francois Caubet has welcomed the move and may persuade the French oil company TOTAL to back the Caterham team.

This would make a lot of sense if the recent reports of Caterham (and not Group Lotus who are sadly looking increasingly moribund) are partnering with Renault to co-develop and co-badge the new Renault Alpine sportscar.

That could have been the most adequate decision if Tony wanted to move up the grid. Throughout whole this season i saw nothing that would fit this theory, except may be moving to a new base, which really can help the team. But still they claim that there will be no significant changes in 2013 car and that upsets me a lot. Other teams will build new cars or at least upgrade current. Look at Marussia, they were behind Caterham a lot in the beginning of 2012 and now they baldly kicking green crocodiles ass. And i'm sure, unlike us, they will progress next year.

Most teams will make their 2013 car an evolution of the current car just like Caterham, because apparently there won't be any major changes to the rules in 2013. This also means teams can continue developing this year's car until the last race of the season, and all these developments will benefit the 2013 car.

Marussia will have to make more changes in their car than the other teams to make room for the KERS batteries. They'll probably also have to make compromises in their aero design because of the KERS, just as Caterham had to do this year.

Heikki says car is still too slow to challenge the lower midfield like Williams who have found to be struggling. I was paying a lot of attention to Lotus with the new
coanda exhaust, and it seemed underwhelming.

More strong rumors are flying around that Pic has already signed with Caterham and here's the news, Renault Managing Director, Jean-Francois Caubet has welcomed the move and may persuade the French oil company TOTAL to back the Caterham team.

It's already done. I even said this in this thread, i think it was at Monza or Singapore. Jean Louis Moncet said this during the race, Pic will be the next Caterham driver.

Great fight between Vitaly and Kovalainen today! Vitaly was faster, and is leading Heikki on races 7-6 now! That's without 2 years in team, and with joining in last moment after missing first tests. Very impressive. Still many journalist and forum users say, that great Heikki should move to better team, and Vitaly has not done enough to be in F1 without money? Very fair. Where is justice?

Great fight between Vitaly and Kovalainen today! Vitaly was faster, and is leading Heikki on races 7-6 now! That's without 2 years in team, and with joining in last moment after missing first tests. Very impressive. Still many journalist and forum users say, that great Heikki should move to better team, and Vitaly has not done enough to be in F1 without money? Very fair. Where is justice?

Do you know what happened between them in the last laps? I think Heikki was ahead but somehow dropped 10 secs in a couple of laps. Vitaly's last laptime was 1.45 and Heikki's 1.51...

Do you know what happened between them in the last laps? I think Heikki was ahead but somehow dropped 10 secs in a couple of laps.

Vitaly was ahead, then Heikki overtook him under blue flags with Massa, but he could not create a gap, Vitaly stay close and retake position, then Vitaly was just faster, but Kova did not have problems, as he was faster than Glock still, Vitaly created a gap to 4 seconds, then Heikki was under another blue flags, and Vitaly finished without them, but in the end clear win by Vitaly!1,51 was blue flags to 2-3 drivers, but without last lap Vitaly was ahead by 4 secs

Vitaly was ahead, then Heikki overtook him under blue flags with Massa, but he could not create a gap, Vitaly stay close and retake position, then Vitaly was just faster, but Kova did not have problems, as he was faster than Glock still, Vitaly created a gap to 4 seconds, then Heikki was under another blue flags, and Vitaly finished without them, but in the end clear win by Vitaly!1,51 was blue flags to 2-3 drivers, but without last lap Vitaly was ahead by 4 secs