hey everyone let me give you some backround on me first im a 6'3 309 pound 22 year old male, currently im laid off however in the spring/early winter i am an electricians apprentice

now ive been dieting and exersizing (weight lifting and HIIT training) 5 days a week with weekends off to recover (wed is a cardio only day as well) on a two day split upper lower program

now as for diets im on a diet called the Zone diet, and it makes the most sense to me, im eating every 3 hours small meals or snacks protein carbs and fat in every meal 40% carbs and 30% protein and 30% fat i believe are the way its split

now ever since i started it i dont follow the pre made plans, i dont eat like that, and im not one that enjoys having to follow something that rigid so i just designed my own meals using the food sub guides in the diet and so far im down 6% bodyfat up 18 lbs in muscle and lost 6.5 inches off my waist ( as well as other places) and this has happened in 8 weeks

my question is will i ever have to be on some sorta super rigid eating only brocolie and chicken breasts 6 times a day diet to get my body fat to 10% or even lower? i basically eat smart, let me run you thru what i had today

i had come chicken breast with some peas and carrots and an apple for lunch and for dinner the same ( i love left overs :P ) and for breakfast i had some low fat whole grain cereal with blueberrys and almods and other nuts in it and some milk as well as a bit of cheese and for one of my snacks i had a bit of lean pork chop with some water mellon

i drink lots of water every day and also i drink some apple juice now and again how am i doing diet wise?

john wrote:hey everyone let me give you some backround on me first im a 6'3 309 pound 22 year old male, currently im laid off however in the spring/early winter i am an electricians apprentice

now ive been dieting and exersizing (weight lifting and HIIT training) 5 days a week with weekends off to recover (wed is a cardio only day as well) on a two day split upper lower program

now as for diets im on a diet called the Zone diet, and it makes the most sense to me, im eating every 3 hours small meals or snacks protein carbs and fat in every meal 40% carbs and 30% protein and 30% fat i believe are the way its split

now ever since i started it i dont follow the pre made plans, i dont eat like that, and im not one that enjoys having to follow something that rigid so i just designed my own meals using the food sub guides in the diet and so far im down 6% bodyfat up 18 lbs in muscle and lost 6.5 inches off my waist ( as well as other places) and this has happened in 8 weeks

my question is will i ever have to be on some sorta super rigid eating only brocolie and chicken breasts 6 times a day diet to get my body fat to 10% or even lower? i basically eat smart, let me run you thru what i had today

i had come chicken breast with some peas and carrots and an apple for lunch and for dinner the same ( i love left overs :P ) and for breakfast i had some low fat whole grain cereal with blueberrys and almods and other nuts in it and some milk as well as a bit of cheese and for one of my snacks i had a bit of lean pork chop with some water mellon

i drink lots of water every day and also i drink some apple juice now and again how am i doing diet wise?

As long as you keep your food choices healthy (no processed foods etc) and control the calories, you will be just fine. The Zone diet is just a more structured way of doing that. Once you understand the principles you can start experimenting on your own.

I think 10% BF is attainable and reasonabl for anyone. Below that it may not be worth it for some individuals.

Cut the apple juice! It's not healthy. It's almost the same as a Coke. Have an apple and water instead. Also make sure that cereal is not laced with sugar, most are. Keep your milk and cheese reasonable.

Congradulations on your progress so far. It may begin to slow down, don't let it discourage you. Great job.

Good advice from both Keith and George. I like the Zone, but it is a bit too rigid. IMHO his guidelines are valid, but should be used as just that, a good guide. The counting of "blocks", etc, is over the top. I see nothing at all wrong with using some of the so-called "avoid" choices, like whole grain, barly, legumes, etc. Just keep them limited somewhat, as they are calorie/carb dense. Beraradi has an article that's pretty much the zone without the rigidity.http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nut ... habits.htm
Good training
Tim

yes so far the zone has been workin great for me and yeah it is pretty rigid but ever since i started it ive just been subbing in what i actually eat

i dont eat processed foods hardly at all anymore, the only thing i think would be the hard cheese i buy is probably processed?

as for the block thing i dont mind it too much lets me know how much i should have at ever meal, im never hungry and i feel great and i do eat some of the avoid foods once a day mabye twice because i dont think a boiled potatoe is that bad for you, nor is milk

as for eating more protein once i get down to my target body fat then ill up my protein "blocks" in every meal by how much? i ll have to experiement, so far im getting enough protein i feel for my weight lifting, i eat fresh home cooked meat with every meal, roast beef chicken, all sorts of sea food, pork etc

so i guess my best bet is once i get to where i want to be, just eat healthy, eat natural and eat enough to keep me gaining muscle and keep me going, thats another reason why i like the blocks i can just add a block to every meal and if that isnt enough another one, instead of just guessing how much food to add :)

i read that webpage you linked to me TimD, and i totally agree with those 7 simple rules and follow them, all except for drinking apple juice once and a while :P

hi John. As to the apple juice, or any juice, yes, it's on Sear's dissaproval list, but frankly, a 6 0z glass in the morning sure won't kill you. In the morming, or even post workout, you're body is best ready to handle it. Just have to apply some common sense What's getting the kids these days into trouble, is that the Juice industry is pushing all juices as "healthy" and the parents think its a good thing, and the kids end up drinking a quart or so of the stuff and can't figure out where all the sugar calories are coming from. As to hard cheese, well, it may be processed, but even Doc Sears approves as long as you don't use it for more than 1-2 P blocks eery now and then. It may have some saturated fat, but it also has some good stuff as well. Wen you're talking processed with cheese, your talking about the processed cheese products, such as American slices and Velveeta, which are full of transfatty acids. Stay with the real stuff, just keep it in moderation.
Another subject, protein. Doc Sears recommendations are pretty good, and after looking at your sched, you can get away with .8 gr/lb lean bwt and that should be sufficient. To make it easy, figure on 1 gr/lb lean bodyweight. Doc Sears actually recommends adding fat blocks, once you've hit your target weight, and feel energy running low.
Keep it up John
Another source of nutrition-the Zone most specifically, most of them swear by it-is the forum over at crossfit.com. You'll finds lots of converstions on the Zone and Paleo over there, with tons of good advice.
Tim

The terms High, moderate, and low as applied to the macronutrients are really all relative. The Zones recommended ratio of Carb/Protein/Fat (CPF) is 40/30/30 in terms of calories.40 percent of total calories from C, 30 from P and 30 from fat. Just keep in mind 1 g of C and 1 gram of P are equal, mean 5 kcal for each, whereas 1 F gram = 9 kcal. Enough math.
By my take, that's moderate in all areas, yet as compared to what the guru's came up with in the 80's pushing very low fat, low-moderate protein, and high carb, which was a CPF ration of around 75/15/10,the Zone would be considered high in protein. I think you get the drift. Personally, i feel more comfortable with a CPF ration around 30/40/30. I don't eat much starch anyway, so most of my carbs come from fruit and veg sources, so my carb proportion tends to run a bit lower than what the Zone recommends.
Tim

TimD wrote:The terms High, moderate, and low as applied to the macronutrients are really all relative. The Zones recommended ratio of Carb/Protein/Fat (CPF) is 40/30/30 in terms of calories.40 percent of total calories from C, 30 from P and 30 from fat. Just keep in mind 1 g of C and 1 gram of P are equal, mean 5 kcal for each, whereas 1 F gram = 9 kcal. Enough math.
By my take, that's moderate in all areas, yet as compared to what the guru's came up with in the 80's pushing very low fat, low-moderate protein, and high carb, which was a CPF ration of around 75/15/10,the Zone would be considered high in protein. I think you get the drift. Personally, i feel more comfortable with a CPF ration around 30/40/30. I don't eat much starch anyway, so most of my carbs come from fruit and veg sources, so my carb proportion tends to run a bit lower than what the Zone recommends.
Tim

I am in similiar situation as the original poster, and I have been diet/exercising/weights for several weeks now and seeing good results. But, how much protein is recommended when dieting/exercising/weights and your goal is not only to lose weight but to build muscle on 2000cals a day? IIRC USDA is 100g a day, but I have read some information which indicates around 300g a day. What is the point at which returns begin diminishing?

I have been limiting my protein intake almost exclusively to a soy powder (that i mix with skim milk and a banana for a tasty breakfast shake), egg whites, chicken, and some tuna. Is this acceptable or should i mix in red meat and more fish?

Yep, my typing fingers missed. 4 kcal ea for C and P. B3X, good question. It depends on which guru you listen to Dr. Sears of the Zone recommends .8 gr P / lb lean bodyweight. Some other go ,8-1 g/ lb bodyweight period. The extremes are the USRDA which is quite lower, and the bodybuilding magazines (tied in with the supplement industry) which recommend a lot higher. I would say keep it simple, stick with around 1 gr P /l bodyweight. Thats really not enough either plus or minus to get you into trouble.
Tim

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L. Rhea said it would be ideal to get about 1.818 g of protein / lb(4.01 g/kg).
And you won't have any problems as long as you're healthy.I read some guy got into a bit of kidney trouble(wich was going to happen to him anyways at some point, since he had kidney issues and didn't know) from 500g of protein per day.