Post by simon on Jul 1, 2018 8:32:07 GMT -6

I just now played through every screen of the map with the whip only for 2 straight hours for testing purposes and I have some feedback. Please note that I'm a huge fan of whips in Castlevania games and whips feel really really bad in this Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night demo. Whips definitely feel off. The range is severely limited. The hitbox is really wonky. The 2 voice sound effects she makes while swinging the whip are extremely annoying. One of the noises she makes while swinging the whip sounds like a blood curdling scream as if she is taking serious damage from an enemy attack even though she is not receiving any damage at all.

Whip Advantages:It is very easy to hit enemies very close to the ground which is nice compared to the other weapons

Whip Disadvantages:Limited rangeJumping to attack flying enemies is not fun (try it and you will find out.......the hitbox is weird)Standing directly underneath the purple lanterns and jumping+attacking almost never works due to this weird hitbox The delay between attacks is slightly too long which is really annoying. Countless times I pushed the attack button a second time, but nothing happened due to the "delay" programmed in-between whip attacks

Suggested Fix:Have whips attack in a similar fashion to Richter's whip in Symphony of the Night (or the whip from Harmony of Dissonance which I really liked alot), but with the added awesome mobility of Super Castlevania 4 whip attacks (up, down, and diagonal attack angles). If we get a metal whip in this game then add a chain sound effect........I really love this from Castlevania games. Add a unique "rapid slicing through air + crack sound at the end) sound effect for leather/thorn/all other non-metallic whips.

Post by comeonfhqwhgads on Jul 1, 2018 10:24:35 GMT -6

We know the Sword Whip is gonna be in-game, and I'm thinking that'll have the more classic Castlevania whip arc of a long distance straight out in front of you. Possibly also some of the other things you mentioned like a nice chain sound and being able to multi-directional whip? We don't know yet.

But yes, agreed on all those other points, the slow speed and weird hitbox make it the absolute worst weapon type to use currently, not fun or effective. And after all the money I spent on Flame Rounds to make the Flame Whip, too. Such a shame.

Post by kamuiarikado on Jul 1, 2018 10:51:32 GMT -6

The whips are fun but it needs more polish: Better speed, longer reach and better hit boxes. I expect the whips to have rekkas. If It's possible that in the final game Miriam has two weapon slots, I want the flame whip and the hypothetical ice whip (teased in an official art) to have a special attack, like a fire and ice tornado or something.

PS: I like the flame whip and definitely needs their special attack too!

Post by CastleDan on Jul 1, 2018 10:54:30 GMT -6

I think it's a little too slow when standing otherwise i think the animation should stay the same. This isn't castlevania so to have the whip have a different feel is good. Plus it's a REALLY cool animation.

Post by allooutrick on Jul 1, 2018 11:18:04 GMT -6

I think the hit box is fine. Realistically, the body of the whip isn't what's going to cause damage. The tip does that and that's where I see the hit box occur in game.It's a matter of preference but I absolutely enjoyed being airborne with the whip. It was exclusively the weapon I used until I needed a damage upgrade. Whip + summon bat + straight arrow = my favorite set-up.The rest I can more or less agree with.

Post by tav7623 on Jul 1, 2018 11:45:19 GMT -6

I agree that the whip (for the most part) sucks and personally found that the only good thing about the whip was being able to easily get small enemies with it while crouching and in some situations using it to do a string of quick jumping attacks, other than that it was imo pretty useless. I also pretty much agree with what kamuiarikado suggested (give whips better speed, longer reach, add the ability to wield 2 weapons and by extension wielding certain combinations of whips as well as other weapons gives you a unique special attack) though I'd like to add that I'd also like them to do a different whip attack animation when you perform a longer/higher jump attack and I hope that they will implement these suggestions/feedback into the finished game.

Post by Hertzila on Jul 1, 2018 12:05:08 GMT -6

The whip feels weird, that's for certain. While the other weapons have their quirks (no downstab with katana to deal with weeds), the whip just felt strange and off-putting to use. I think it's at least partially because the only attack direction is downwards.

While full-on Super Castlevania 4 level whip would be overkill IMO, having horizontal and diagonal downwards and upwards attacks with it would help it a lot, I think.

Post by tav7623 on Jul 1, 2018 12:23:45 GMT -6

Thought I should add one more thing which I just noticed while playing through the demo that ties into the whole hit box discussion (I decided to get a few screenshots of it occurring and will have them posted below ) which is that if certain enemies (like ghosts,bats,etc) are close to Miriam and within the whip's arc attack when she attacks they do not get hit by her whip which leaves her open to an attack that can essentially knock her out of her attack animation mid attack.

Gap in Whip Attack

Whip Animation being interrupted by an enemy attack from behind (there was a small gap where the ghost didn't get hit by the top part of the whip's attack)

Post by ovenkitty on Jul 1, 2018 12:26:29 GMT -6

The whip was disappointing, not what I was expecting in a "Castlevania" game. It reminded me of the bullwhip in Salt and Sanctuary. Maybe they want to avoid doing a full-on Belmont whip, but I really hope there's one with a similar feel in the finished game.

Post by abaddon on Jul 1, 2018 15:30:46 GMT -6

The Whip attacks are any thing in the "Crescent C" line path. That means at the 45 above down to the ground which the arc is the greatest and back up just behind you, which you can "ALL" hit. But like everyone mentioned there is a gap in the middle of the "C" which should be filled in to hit thing's, just to let you know the whip is not the only weapon to have this middle issue problem. The gap straight above is fine and makes sense but can be covered a little bit if they do add diagonal up and down attack angles. The speed seems to be about right. maybe a little speed boost but if they do fix the middle part of the "C" then your not going to have as much of a speed issue. Take the bat as an example they act very much like the fireballs from bonetowers in CV with their speed. If you time it right you can hit all of the bonetower's fireballs but otherwise no. They should add a "Basic" input attack like with kicking and katana. If you hold down the Attack button then your whip will whip around the player non-stop in a circle. The special idea is nice with the duel-welding tornado. Also you might not know this but fireballs from the Demon cannon's can be whiffed if you time your attacks this might hold true with other magic base attacks too. Outside of the Middle "C" problem I have found the whip to be very fun and challenging and not as boring, one of my top 3 weapons.

Post by purifyweirdshard on Jul 1, 2018 16:00:49 GMT -6

I thought the whip hitbox was intentional so that you had to be careful about aiming it. If the hitbox was that entire space, i.e. the giant rectangle in front of her then that would make it stronger sure, but a bit silly/less interesting to consider using since all weapons need to have their strengths/weaknesses balance one with another. Having it be the same speed or faster with a huge attack area and good damage would invalidate other options.

I prefer and like the Belmont straight-out whip attack myself, odd as that probably looks in 3D graphics. I'm thinking it'll be the sword whip's attack, a special move or some other thing though.

Post by abaddon on Jul 1, 2018 16:34:56 GMT -6

purifyweirdsoul

I had actually thought about that too for balance sake. But realized that the whip was not the only weapon that has hit detection problems up close to the character. The spear has it to and it has a straight attack pattern. Try hitting any candles near the character you whiff them. This happens with all of the Axe, Large sword, Spear, Whip, weapons and Katana, Mace, Mid- sword at times. The smaller/thrust weapons Knife, Reaper, Boot etc. don't since the window gap is to small. which makes it seem to be more of a bug.

Post by ShroudedTraveler on Jul 1, 2018 19:38:10 GMT -6

I was also enjoying the whip. The ending lag is a bit rough, and not forgiving if you whiff. Though, really, I hope they don't change it to make a Belmont style whip attack. That would make it mechanically feel too much like the spear or rapier and look really silly in 3D.

Post by Carnack Ketral on Jul 1, 2018 20:30:22 GMT -6

I think the biggest problems people are having with the whip compared to others are the longer lag time between swings and the larger gap between Miriam and the hitbox. Those, combined with the limited angle of attack throws people off.

With such a limited range, large openings, and slow recovery, the whip suffers considerably compared to something like the greatsword. It contains a large, almost 360 degree hit box around Miriam, has a quick recovery time.

Even with the greatswords longer opening attack animation, it still manages to out perform many of the other weapon types, due to its over arching hitbox.

I am starting to sound like a broken record.

I believe that the whip would benefit from either fast animations and recovery, or a larger effective hitbox. Or both. I know the tip of the whip is the main damaging point, so if we could swirl it around the character as previously suggested, I believe it would be far more effective and keep its uniqueness.

Post by bloodful on Jul 1, 2018 21:54:01 GMT -6

I too love the new whip animation and hope they don't change to a straight-out Belmont style animation, not only because that would look weird as in 3D but as others have mentioned it would mechanically be indistinguishable from a spear, whats the point other than a different visual?

The recovery frames are a bit on the slow side and whilst a little punishing, it's not intolerably.

Overall I would like to see the whip as a weapon that takes skill to use, including the hit box - though its a bit wonky at the moment it would be great if the hit box is at the edge of the whip, meaning you have to be accurate. To compensate for the necessary accuracy for its use, it needs to be faster, at least swing faster or have quicker recovery frames than two-hander weapons which currently it is not. And that makes no sense.

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