First, they stopped trading pork bellies a few months ago. Kinda sad. I used to just like asking, "where are pork bellies at today?" "Pork bellies up limit?"

Ann, this would be like picking the rhetoric of Bill Ayers or Code Pink to define the entire left/liberal anti war position. I'm sure there's a 75 cent legal term for doing this...on the farm we call it "all hat and no cattle" or "small acreage".

Hey, I'm a conservative and Patrick Henry is my favorite flame thrower, so I love diversity and the right to free debate. She's entitled to her own opinion. Framing it as typical of the Tea Party or the "right" as you said is intellectually dishonest.

Those last few paragraphs seemed pretty over-the-top. (guaranteed the economy will collapse? ensured nuclear war?) And, perhaps this is just a delayed reaction to Mick, but to me, the writer lost all credibility when she called President Obama a "usurper." What does that even mean in this context? (note- Mick, don't bother, because I don't care.)

Uh, yeah, she's right, because before Obama, the US didn't spend the previous 70+ years accumulating debt, middle-class entitlement and public employee liabilities that it couldn't afford over the long haul...dontcha know?

Now imagine you're John Boehner having that viewpoint on the right in your caucus. I say the Speaker cut a pretty good deal, given all the facts.

I read that and, while I respect the author as I respect all the disgruntled Tea Partiers, it's still a short-sighted, "I want it all" viewpoint, that's unrealistic in light of where we are. This is a ground game where we safely maintain control of the ball:

ScottM said: "If you can average four yards a carry, you'll win every game..."

Marty Schottenheimer, is that you?

That's actually very wrong, Scott. If you can gain 4 yards on every carry, and if you never fumble, and convert every 2-point try, you'll win every game. Or at least tie. But there are plenty of teams that have averaged 4 yards per play and lost.

And this woman's rhetoric is certainly hot and spicy, but much of what she says is true. I agree that Obama's destruction of the economy hasn't been some accident through his own incompetence -- I think it's been intentional. Obama is Bill Ayers' biggest pipe bomb. And at some point people are going to realize how their wealth, not their income, but their savings, have been looted by devaluation of the currency.

If I don't get an immediate balanced budget, I will stamp my feet like a petulant toddler and take my toys home with me. Yes I am the Tea Party. Bunch of fucking babies. Leave policy to the adults like McCain.

Teahadis have proven that kidnapping the baby and extorting ransom works. Wonder what baby they will kidnap next?

Maybe they'll just flee the state, Garage. You're on record here as saying you were fine with that as a means to fulfill their roles as elected officials. The big difference here is that the Tea Party reps were actually where they were supposed to be and heavily engaged in negotiations with the leadership.

Your people just fled the state and shacked up in a shitty hotel in order to fulfill their duties.

It may well be that as a commodity broker she is talking her book--trying to make people think that deficit spending will create a "massive debasement of our currency" that should be countered by buying commodities.

I think there has already been a fair amount of hoarding of basic commodities. Obama mentions we should eat our peas--well, around here in the grocery store dried split peas cost twice what they did before the financial crisis, even though most foods seem to be about the same price. I assume this is because the quantitative easing has lowered interest rates on (alternative) investments so much that durable food commodities are seen as a better investment, especially if eventually it is necessary to print money to the point of inflation to stimulate the economy sufficiently. And dried split peas are something poor people (and people like me who love pea soup) might tend to eat a lot of, since as a source of protein pea soup is still much cheaper than meat, and what with the government we have now, many are probably thinking the poor are going to get a good deal poorer. In fact, during the great depression, there were many fast food pea soup restaurants. (I have also read that pea soup was a popular fast food of the ancient Athenians.) Terrible that when the number of poor skyrocket, speculators would drive up the price of the very staples they most need, but I suspect that is happening to a certain extent (though partly it may be increased demand, inasmuch as more people may have to resort to pea soup from poverty). The third page of the Dried Peas and Lentils briefing shows that in July 2006, prices for dried split peas were $12.50 per hundred pounds. Now they're at $23.50. The big increase was in 2007 and 2008. In April-May 2008, prices peaked at $32.50 per hundred pounds!

I do think deficit spending is needed to escape recession. It will also probably tend to create inflation--necessarily so to the extent our leaders obviously lack integrity. Speculative forces will look at the extra money (that like all money will end up deposited in banks) and assume that when our economy recovers, our leaders, lacking sufficient integrity and strength, will lack the resolve to prevent our financial instiutions from once again lending (and thus creating money) very excessively once the bankers want to do so again; to the extent the speculative forces believe this, these speculative forces will create inflation. So it is very important in getting out of this mess painlessly (in particular, without inflation) to have leaders with an obvious integrity with respect to permanently reigning in banking institutions.

I read that and, while I respect the author as I respect all the disgruntled Tea Partiers, it's still a short-sighted, "I want it all" viewpoint, that's unrealistic in light of where we are. This is a ground game where we safely maintain control of the ball:

Still no proof at all that Biden called anyone "terrorists," yet the Althouse crowd continues to act as if they were in the room and heard it themselves.

His own spokespeople say he was just agreeing with other democrats in the room who called the tea party terrorists. Can you wedge a razor of distinction in between that and calling them terrorists? One that actually matters?

For the record, I don't give a flying fuck what Biden says outside the realm of hypocrisy. He's going to be irrelevant soon enough...if he ever had any relevancy to begin with...which I doubt.

During the 1930's, as hitler started to move in europe; Americans wanted NO PART in another world war! FDR watched. And, did nothing.

England almost became bankrupt, when FDR came up with lend-lease. He said in his radio address: When your neighbor's house is burning, you lend him your watering hose. And, you don't quibble about what condition it will be in when you get it back.

This time around, on this globe, we've watch the UN taking over! We've watch the myth of the euro reach the spot where it should have collapsed. And, did not.

We saw what happened in Oslo with a home grown lunatic, than never had to earn a single dollar! Yet, look at what he was able to do. Was his farm a drop off point for all the shit produced in Norway?

He had trees that grew gold coins?

ALL THE RETAIL CUSTOMERS HAVE LEFT!

The media labels things "tea party" ... without going, first, to Glenn Reynolds. And, what he said: ARMY OF DAVIDS. And, PORK-BUSTERS.

The lobbyists are still calling the dance in our congress.

And, what's really disgusting ... is that what Boehner wants to do by saying he's "cutting" ... is just running the numbers through a propaganda machine.

Oops. The plug fell out of the wall. And, the propaganda machine has met reality.

Reality in Alice in Wonderland is inside a tea cup.

But around this nation the reality is way different! Working people don't want to support the lazy sons of bitches that went to the government for jobs and welfare!

Take notice. This is true, too, in individual european countries.

You don't want to invest in dollars? Euro's are worth less.

And, we began having problems when congress lifted the minimum wage.

Like you'd give a kid $10 an hour just to mow your lawn. And, from this kid you'd have to collect his social security number. So you could report yourself as an employer.

Paperwork. Paperwork. You get buried by this ... as much as you get buried by dirt.

Tea partiers. Until now we didn't have to tie spending cuts into any discussions of raising the debt limit. It was simply done. Even conservative hero, Ron Reagan raised the debt ceiling more than once, so, get over yourselves and get perspective.You're not going to solve all spending issues with one vote and you're going to have to add the word compromise to your vocabulary so long as you are in the minority and only control the house.Yes, we'd all prefer cap balance and trade and a balanced budget, but don't cut off your nose to spite your face. Geeze.

As the stones once sang, you can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find you get what you need. Now, I'm not 100% sure we are getting what we need with this compromise bill, but it doesn't invalidate the fist part of the verse.

Tea partiers did not get rolled. They've won the argument that we need to get our spending house in order. We've also seen how intractable the opposition will be in cutting down spending, so now the end game must be, get more fiscally conservative people in office.

Admit that you're in favor of winning at any costs or shut the fuck up. Your one-sided bellyaching is really beginning to age poorly.

Your comparison falls woefully short. If the Dem-14 wanted to win at all costs, they would have not returned until their demands were met. But they came back and voted, and lost. The Teahadis on the other hand had their suicide vests strapped on and were willing to blow everybody up until their demands were met, which were.

She's not complaining about not solving all spending issues with one act, so quit saying that.

She's staying focused. They want cuts. Actual cuts. And they're not going to stop until they see them. And when they see them they'll demand more until the country is in the black.

You've called them babies here. They were called terrorists yesterday and racists before that. And now I see Teahadists. Make up your goddamn mind. They're realists. Realists concerned about one single thing: debt. They would just as soon be out shopping at Walmart but they're seeing their future being taken away and they're mad as hell and now finally they're moved to doing something about it.

I still haven't seen an answer to how it makes any sense at all to continue this deeply in debt and to go deeper. You don't have a good answer, all you have is invective.

Apparently, the new adult thing to do is kick the can down the road a couple trillion more. Rand Paul has a pretty good take on it here.

We can't keep going in the same direction. Every opportunity should be taken to STOP the race toward the edge of the cliff. As Paul says, when you're racing toward a cliff, putting on the cruise control doesn't help.

We had an opportunity to do something big. We settled for practically nothing.

Sometimes the next opportunity never comes. Boner said he got 98% of what he wanted. Well, 2% more would have helped ------ not at all.

Chip ahoy wrote:You've called them babies here. They were called terrorists yesterday and racists before that. And now I see Teahadists. Make up your goddamn mind. They're realists. Realists concerned about one single thing: debt. They would just as soon be out shopping at Walmart but they're seeing their future being taken away and they're mad as hell and now finally they're moved to doing something about it.

I certainly disagree with the overheated rhetoric. Jonah goldberg has a great takedown on these hypocrites who suggested that overheated tea party rhetoric led to the shooting of the congresswomen, but then who routinely call their opposition terrorists attaching suicide vests to themselves. F those bastards.

But tea partiers have to recognize that the debt ceiling can be raised, and has been raised many times in the past. Govt has a problem reigning in it's own spending and will, if left to it's own devices continue to do so. So, considering this conversation we've been having, the tea partiers have already won the battle. But it's just the first battle, not the end of the war. It's the equivalent of getting our feet in the door. If there is a question about the bush tax cuts expiring, the next battle is fighting to make sure that they don't, or holding the dems accountable for the ranifications of higher taxes on the economy.It may be disappointing that we didn't get more, but we have to recognize that we are negotiating from a disadvantage. Until we at least control both the house and the senate, we can't realistically expect tradeoffs to what we ultimately want. So then the battle really has to be winning elections.Yes, I call this winning. But not won. And that requires us to not get all woe is me that we haven't won everything at once. Defeatism can come across as whiny.

Probably the most hysterically insane nonsense I have read in a while. There are many of us who have problems with Obama. And many of us had problems with Bush. While some refered to the latter as a fascist nazi torturing wing nut bent on world domination most of us were just as appalled at that idiotic rhetoric as we are at this. It would be nice if idiots like that, both on the Right and on the Left, were just left to howl at the moon. Instead they are taken seriously and quoted and debated. I started out as a conservative but the Right has gone so far off the grid that I have been pushed to the Left.

Caroline's daughter Lauren is starting a business and was shopping for jewelry and accessories for her make up store. They have business experience with "The Brownstone" but running a small business in this economy is a whole other kettle of fish.

Pragmatist said: "most of us were just as appalled at that idiotic rhetoric" and "I started out as a conservative"

Yet as far back as August '08 he was shilling for Obama and in October 2009, he also wrote (in his If You Need Any More Evidence blog): [Republicans are] "The party of gutless business buffoons who sit back and allow their party to be high jacked by reactionary demagogues, Christian Fascists, wacked out conspiracy theorists and other mentally ill and socially isolated nutcases."

So much for the consensus-seeking former conservative. Sorry to dash your hopes, Scott, just another spittle-flecked, dime-a-dozen, leftist hide after all.

Since promises of instant gratification and emotional appeals are so often the winning tactics, the various members and groups of the Tea Party can only hope for strategic victories. Unfortunately, time is not in our favor.

Fiscal responsibility and accepting responsibility for one's own life is not at all a natural behavior when redistributive change is offered as an alternative.

It's never a good idea to try to win a war when you're outnumbered and weaker.

It's true, of course, that this compromise is bad. It makes America worse. It sends us into debt even farther. It sucks.

It's better than the alternative.

And Obama isn't Clinton. Part of the reason we were able to almost balance the budget with Clinton is that he is simply a different kind of guy. Obama isn't even in charge of his political party. Not by a longshot.

By all means, rally the right to win more elections. But don't do it to the point of dividing ourselves.

Right now, I think the focus should be on winning the Senate. If we can, we also will win the presidency and solidify the House.

"garage mahal said...Boehner said they got 98% of what they asked for. Paul Ryan seems happy. But not investors."

Of course not. Because while Bohner and Ryan are happy with what they got, it's is couched in the reality of what was possible with the Dems controlling the WH and Senate. Investors know the economy sucks, and will get worse, until 2012.

"Pragmatist said...Probably the most hysterically insane nonsense I have read in a while. There are many of us who have problems with Obama. And many of us had problems with Bush. While some refered to the latter as a fascist nazi torturing wing nut bent on world domination most of us were just as appalled at that idiotic rhetoric as we are at this. It would be nice if idiots like that, both on the Right and on the Left, were just left to howl at the moon. Instead they are taken seriously and quoted and debated. I started out as a conservative but the Right has gone so far off the grid that I have been pushed to the Left."

Probably the most hysterically insane nonsense I have read in a while.

It's as idiotic as this little gem I saw on a friend of a friends Facebook page.

Political Views: Progressive, Liberal and Fiscal Conservative. Because I care about the future society being created for my children.

No surprise he's a state worker, and his profile photo is the ole union fist with some asshat "Solidarity" slogan.

It is nothing short of hilarious that a democrat like garage wants to blame the GOP for anything bad happening from a deal the democrats obviously were very much in control of.

We see how far this is from Paul Ryan's plan. It's just the best we can do when democrats control the Senate and WH.

Of course the best we can do right now is pretty bad and won't recover the economy.

Before the GOP regained the house we were looking at massive increases in the deficit and Obamacare. This is not nearly that bad. It's limiting the bleeding, but without the GOP House, we'd be seeing a huge tax increase sooner, more spending, and a much higher debt ceiling.

We have to primary RINOs with winning general election candidate, and win Senate seats too. It's not easy, and we won't win them all, but we will win a lot of them. That's why the democrats are screaming about how we are nazi terrorists now.

I caught a fish once. I little snake of a northern. I threw him back and continued to cast into the same hole. Damned if on the 3rd or 4th cast, I caught the same damn fish. I used wonder how dumb you have to be to get caught twice in the space of a couple of minutes. But here, for months, I’ve been doing the same damn thing with garage’s bullshit links.

garage's link assumes all your money you earn is the governments, so if the government doesn't take it, that's a cost. So tax cuts are a huge cost.

This despite the NYT being wrong on the result of some tax cuts (which increased revenue) and being wrong in thinking we can raise taxes and get more revenue. And being wrong in blaming Bush for Obama's tax policy (he signed the bush tax cuts, they are really the Obama tax cuts).

It gets worse, of course, blaming Bush for the war in Afghanistan's price tag and not associating Obama with any costs of war despite bombing six countries.

It's just a lie, then. But that's what you get. The hard truth is that Bush had bad deficits, and Obama has had much worse deficits even though the two worst ones came with the democrats ran 100% of the government. They blame Bush anyway.

"There is, or may be, it is all a bit iffy, a slowdown in the rate of growth.

But there are no cuts.

John Henry"

that's right, but Garage and his NYT source assume a rate of nearly $10 trillion in increase spending is 'not a policy change' so they claim an increase in the debt of that much = nothing. You can't blame Obama for it. If we simply spend the same next year as this one, for the next ten years, without a penny in cuts, the NYT and Garage think that is nearly a $10 trillion cut.

It's a lie. It's convenient to the politicians, left and right, to pretend this lie is the truth.

And when you know that, and hear they might give us $2.5 trillion in cuts over the next ten years, you begin to understand why so many say that is a slap in the face.

But Obama isn't to be blamed for it. No no no. Poor Obama voted present.

So today, I am writing to thank you for being a patriot. I have so much respect for you. I respect the work you do day by day, year by year, to defend freedom and promote opportunity. Your dedication to our cause is saving America.

Keep it up. Don't quiet down. Your voice cannot be ignored. Demand more from Washington. Demand more from those who represent you. At the RNC, we hear you - and we want to amplify your voice in Washington.

Over the next 15 months, all conservatives need to come together and focus on the only way to really fix what's wrong with Washington: voting Obama out of office and taking back the Senate. We are ready for battle. Are you?

Usually this is the part where we ask for money. Not today. In the last 24 hours you have given America something much more important than a donation. You have helped America take a step away from servitude and a step closer to freedom. We are proud of you. You are our heroes. You are true patriots.

You are Great Americans.

God bless you.

Sincerely,

Reince Priebus"

Pretty nice. Joe Biden is a small minded little asshole, and the GOP should keep bringing up his unhinged hatred of your mom, your sister, your brother, and perhaps you too. I hope to be reminded of it for the next ten years.

Democrats were to close a tax loophole for hedge fund managers (top 25 made @$880,000,000 each last year) that would've saved the govt $20 billion over 10 yrs - But with no tax increases, all deficit reduction will hit middle & lower classes

Yes, thanks Tea Party. Thanks Right wing. I now know you don't care about the middle class in America.

"- But with no tax increases, all deficit reduction will hit middle & lower classes"

No it won't.

Because huge deficits are the most regressive tax on earth. It's why gas and milk and beef cost so damn much. It's why the rent is too damn high.

It's taking my middle class money and making it worth half a much via quantitative easing, and then using that money to buy debt used to pay a welfare queen, put illegals on foodstamps, give healthcare to drug addicts, and run 1000 BS agencies, some of which are arming drug dealers.

No, deficit spending hits the middle and lower class much harder than the rich, who can transfer their wealth to currencies, property, minerals, etc much more easily than the person whose income mostly pays for their day to day lifestyle and needs.

The thing is that democrats want to escape accountability for their horrible spending binge since 2007, so they much prefer inflation to spending cuts.

But let there be no illusion. There is a spending problem. Taxes are already too high, not too low, and there is only so much revenue you can possibly squeeze out of this economy before the economy shrinks.

That's kinda how I got to where I am, but with the trajectory reversed. All my friends think I did some overnight Republican thing, but that was just the announcement, and then facing their bullshit reactions, that produced that effect.

Otherwise, I was just doing my thing - which I now can see was always conservative - and kept going Left until I came out the other side.

Yeah. Almost everything I was doing, as a Leftist, was kind of like an investigation. I already had my values, and they were unshakable, but there were all these behaviors and rituals that I knew nothing about, that always took place in dark and smoky rooms with lots of hallways off of them.

So I tried things, always going further, until I was attracted to following a speck of sunlight, and then desiring warmth. I can still remember coming out of a club at 5AM and seeing a milkman - a milkman, after all these years - and thinking, "He's going to work and I'm going to sleep: something's wrong with this picture." I started getting up early just because after that.

"Teahadis have proven that kidnapping the baby and extorting ransom works. Wonder what baby they will kidnap next?"

Sounds like a television show where the kidnapper is acting all tough and making demands, thinking they possess the baby.

The punch-line is always that the good guys steal the baby away without letting the kidnapper know they've got the baby safe while the kidnapper goes on attempting to threaten no to pay old people their social security checks... I mean, threaten to hurt the baby, and then the baby is revealed and all the good-guys go, "Sucker!"

Alternatively, it sounds like Al Gore crying like a baby because he wasn't as good at "stealing" an election as Bush was, no matter how hard he tried.

Really... Obama's team attempted to kidnap the baby, including making threats and demanding concessions. Success, and rather *limited* success, does not make the Republicans guilty and Obama and the Dems innocent. It just makes them losers.

In my experience anything that is understood can be explained to some degree by the person who understands it.

For example, as much as certain AGW defenders around here are annoying, they generally dive right in and explain what they see as the situation. Others I've run into can't get past "I listen to the right people, and you don't."

It's one thing to say, "These experts are right." But it's not enough if it ends with that. Explain and give examples. We're all reasonably bright, here. An argument with substance should be possible from someone with the least clue *why* they agree with the experts they cite, if the reason is actually more thoughtful than, "I like what they say because it affirms my preconceptions."

(Note, please, I'm not arguing that anyone who understands an issue automatically has the right conclusions. That's the realm of the left, where "truth" is so obvious there can be no honest difference of opinion, and thus anyone not thinking correctly is evil.)

Jay, Shouting, there is NO point in trying to reason with hard-core liberals. They are incapable of thinking for themselves, which is why they are constantly citing and looking to pols for their marching orders. What they suffer from can be summed up with 1 word: