DOS PUERCOS

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Well I currently own two. One from the 60’s and one from the 90’s. 8’6” and 9’6”. Had a 10 footer that I parted with a few years back as well. A board collector who is no doubt one of the top experts on the West Coast about 20 mi. South of me owns three from the 60’s. All of these boards whether 90’s or 60’s have the same basic template. The wide point may be aft of midship, but they are not “Pigs”. As I stated; there is a lack of hips. Honestly the template is almost “Parallel. The closest thing to that template is probably some of the Parallel rail stuff Rich Harbour did. Ie “Trestle Special”. You stated your IMHO and I stated mine. I’m sure that if we followed your line of thought we could say most boards short or long are a “modified” Pig. Phil said it best “You should have been here yesterday “ . Granted you were! But maybe you should take a lesson from Phil and move on.

Well, it seems that you want to turn this into a pissing contest. My direct discussions with Phil, go back to Spring of 1960. The topics covered both his board designs, and his fin designs. What I call, to this day, ''My Phil Edwards tutorial.'' I came away with the outline of his reverse fin, and the outline of a 9' 5'' x 21'' one of his boards. So, long before you advised it, I took a lesson from Phil, and moved on. By March of 1965, I was shaping next to him at Hobie's Dana Point shop. Now, 58 years after I began building boards, based on those templates, my personal board is a 7' 10'' version of that board. I know my way around that design, better than anyone, with the exception of Phil himself. I'll grant you one thing, his PE model, is not a Pig. Not in the truest sense of the design. But, it is a modified Pig. And yes, if you widen the nose greater than 16 inches, the outline takes on a very parallel appearance.

No Pissing contest. Just simply as I stated. “I don’t see it.” Maybe you could post a pencil drawing or some kind of picture that would enlighten me?? I also have a hard time understanding the fascination with Old ideas that have long been abandoned,

Just to be clear; Have always liked you and much respect. Just have never put much stock in your theories. Thick foils, Duo-Fins at one inch, that second fin in a single box etc. And Pigs are a dead horse IMHO. You may have come up with a lot ideas in your day but you didn’t invent the Shortboard in 1958. But it’s ok by me. Take credit where you can and leave a beautiful memory with your followers here on Sways. Very few shapers started their shaping career in 58 and even fewer shaped continuously for sixty years. continuously being the key word. As I said much respect, but just like you “I don’t believe in the Tooth Fairy”.

Just to be clear; Have always liked you and much respect. Just have never put much stock in your theories. Thick foils, Duo-Fins at one inch, that second fin in a single box etc. And Pigs are a dead horse IMHO. You may have come up with a lot ideas in your day but you didn’t invent the Shortboard in 1958.

Let's take a look at what you've said here. Like me? Respect me? Like you've said, I don't see it. THICK FOILS ? Not my idea/theory, though I embraced it. Who could advance such a silly idea, eh? Oh, that would be Mr, Phil Edwards. Revealed to me during my ''tutorial discussion'' in 1960. So, you revere and collect Phils boards, but denegrate one of his core principles. Interesting. Duo-Fins? That's Neil Purchase Jr's configuration. ''....at one inch?'' One more thing, My fins are separated by two inches, not one inch. Another case of you getting it all wrong. I've NEVER claimed to ''invent'' the shortboard. That distinction possibly belongs to Bob Simmons, rumored to have made several 6 foot long boards. I believe that the ''inventor'' of the shortboard, in the modern era,(post 1960) was a fellow named Jim Foley, in Santa Cruz. In 1965/66 he was riding a 7 foot board, when everyone else was on 10 footers. Being wrong out loud, seems to be your only strong suit. Understanding surfboard design? Not so much.

Funny I never see any of your designs around anywhere and only heard feedback from one shaper about your two fins at center. Wasn’t positive feedback either. Only time I’ve seen anything in public that you shaped is at the Board Show with you standing there by it explaining to every passerby how cool it is. As I said I don’t dig your designs. You’re ok tho as dinosaurs go. Oh and I don’t collect Phil’s boards. I ride them from time to time. They are a little limited in their performance capabilities and I am not always into surfing in the style that is best suited to Phil’s shape. I tend to prefer boards with hips, but definitely not”pigs”.

(1) Funny.... Only time I’ve seen anything in public that you shaped is at the Board Show with you standing there by it explaining to every passerby how cool it is. (2) Oh and I don’t collect Phil’s boards. I ride them from time to time. They are a little limited in their performance capabilities and I am not always into surfing in the style that is best suited to Phil’s shape.

(1) Nope, never said it was cool. However, I did answer questions about the theory, and the performance. And then, only to those who asked. I wasn't selling anything. It was Bird's new Gun, and he asked me to sit the booth, and respond to any questions.

(2) Hmmmm. ''Limited in performance.'' ''Not always into surfing in the style best suited to Phil's shape.'' Let me tell you about Phil's style, on his boards. I've been in the lineup with most of the major international, Hawaiian, and West Coast surfing notables. I'm not an easy guy to impress. But, Phil Edwards is the ONLY surfer that I've ever gotten out of the water to watch. He was performing at such an astounding level. I suspect you are the one limited in performance, not the board design.

You’re embareassing yourself. Show a little dignity. Phil had a great style. Having never seen him Surf in person(I’d have to be at least old as you are to have done that) ; I can only go by film that I have seen. Surfing Hollow Days for instance. I have never seen any footage of Phil riding his own model. I may have seen a clip of him riding a three stringered board in Hawaii. Can’t recall for certain. I would say that he didn’t’ ride His own model the way he would have “Baby”. But I acquiesce to your greatness and knowledge.

Well, this may sound like I'm instigating or stoking the fire between you two, but I do have some legit questions. McDing, if you say you barely can turn on a 'Pig' and that they're terrible in any turbulance, why do you currently have two and at one time had a third? The differences you both see in the Pig design make sense to me, I always thought it was a 'hips' thing as well, but I see where Bill is coming from with his 'modified' pig.

Question about the hip/wide point. Is there any rule of thumb regarding how wide the wide point should be? For example, on a board with the mid point at 20", do you make the wide point 10-20% wider, or is it an eyeball thing or something completely different? Also, when you're planning out the shape, do you focus your measurements around the wide point or the center point?

Also, what is the reasoning behind modifying the 'less hippy' pig shape? Other than D fins, what fin options work well with a pig?