WCM777 Review: Cloud services & investment returns

World Capital Market (of which WCM777 are supposedly the marketing branch) claim to be based out of the British Virgin Islands. The company launched in 2013 and held a “grand opening” on June 17th in the US.

On the WCM777 website (“wcm777.com”) a “certificate of incorporation” has been uploaded, with the date 8th of May 2009 given as the incorporation date for World Capital Market Inc.

Specifics on WCM777 and where and if they are incorporated anywhere are not provided, with the company only stating in their Income Disclosure Statement that:

WCM777 is a direct selling e-commerce company legally registered in the United States.

A lot of information is provided on the WCM777 website about World Capital Market but nothing specifically on WCM777.

Management wise the Founder of WCM777 and World Capital Market is Xu Ming. Ming’s WCM777 corporate bio states

He is a strategist in doing optimal allocation and integration of resources globally.

He has successfully taken eight companies public and has sold one of his portfolio companies to a China state-owned large enterprise in China with a value of 400 million RMB.

Dr. Xu has the proven ability and track records to do capital multiplication.

Dr. Xu Ming has a master’s degree in communication management from the University of Southern California. He graduated from Harvard Business School PEVC (venture capital and private equity funds program), and also was educated at UCLA and the University of Chicago in finance, mergers and acquisition, and Wall Street strategy.

He also has a PhD in Theology from Joseph Global Institute.

World Capital Market Inc., founded by Dr. Xu Ming, is one of the 100 greatest international investment institutions selected in 2008 and he was honored as one of the world’s Top Ten Outstanding Chinese Investors of the Year in China.

Dr. Xu Ming is always actively involved in social welfare undertakings and in contributing to the community. His vision is to be united by love and reclaim the 7 mountains, building the city upon a hill.

Ming clearly appears to come from a finance and investment background, whether or not he has any MLM experience is unclear.

WCM777’s CEO is named as Liu Zhi with his prior involvement in the MLM industry again unclear.

Read on for a full review of the WCM777 MLM business opportunity.

The WCM777 Product Line

WCM777’s product line are a series of cloud-based services, marketed under the brand World Cloud Media 7 (WCM7).

At the time of publication most of the services advertised on the WCM7 website were still “under construction”:

The WCM777 Compensation Plan

The WCM777 compensation plan revolves around affiliate purchasing and continuing to re-purchase positions in the company’s compensation plan.

Investment Returns

The WCM777 compensation plan revolves around affiliates purchasing positions in the compensation plan. Each of these positions generates a passive daily ROI for 100 days, paid out as follows:

Junior Distributor ($399) – $4 a day ($400 total ROI)

Supervisor ($799) – $8 a day ($800 total ROI)

Manager ($1199) – $12 a day ($1200 total ROI)

Senior Manager ($1599) – $16 a day ($1600 total ROI)

Director ($1999) – $32 a day ($3200 total ROI)

Referral Commissions

WCM777 pay out referral commissions on the purchase of membership positions by affiliates. WCM777 do this by using a unilevel compensation structure.

A unilevel compensation structure places an affiliate at the top of the structure, with every personally recruited affiliate placed directly under them (level 1).

If any of these level 1 recruited affiliates go on to recruit new affiliates of their own, they are placed on level 2 of the original affiliate’s unilevel. If any level 2 affiliates recruit new affiliates they are placed on level 3 and so on and so forth down six levels of recruitment.

How much of a commission (paid out as a percentage of the Business Volume (BV) and profit points generated) an affiliate earns with each membership purchase, is determined by their own affiliate membership purchase amount:

Junior Distributor – 20% on level 1 and 1% on levels 2 to 6

Supervisor – 20% on level 1 and 1.5% on levels 2 to 6

Manager – 20% on level 1 and 2% on levels 2 to 6

Senior Manager -20% on level 1 and 2.5% on levels 2 to 6

Director – 20% on level 1 and 3% on levels 2 to 6

Level Differential Bonus

Expanding on the referral commissions offered above and again based on how much money an affiliate spends on membership, the Level Differential Bonus is an additional referral bonus offered to WCM777 affiliates.

The easiest way to explain to the Level Differential Bonus is to imagine each of the WCM777 affiliate membership positions as being able to earn a maximum percentage on referral commissions between levels 2 to 6:

Supervisor – 2%

Manager – 3%

Senior Manager – 4%

Director – 5%

How the commission works is that if an affiliate receives a referral commission and they fall on levels 2 to 5 of the standard referral commission payout, their upline, if they purchased a more expensive membership option, can earn an additional percentage commission on top of their standard referral commission.

Directors for example earn 3% on levels 2 to 6, however if a Junior Distributor was on the level before them, that Junior Distributor earns their standard 1% with the remaining 2% being passed up to the Director (for a total 5% commission payout).

If the Junior Distributor was say a Senior Manager, the passup percentage would then only be 0.5% (Senior Managers make 2.5% of the 3%), resulting in a 3.5% net total referral commission for the upline Director.

This pass up is named the Level Differential Bonus and is available on all referral commissions.

Binary Commissions

Residual commissions are paid out in WCM777 using a binary compensation structure. A binary compensation structure places an affiliate at the top of the structure with two positions directly under them:

These two positions form the start of two sides, with volume generated by each side matched up to create a commission.

When 360 BV (generated via the purchase of membership positions by affiliates) is matched up between the two binary sides, the WCM777 affiliate at the top of the binary earns a $20 binary commission.

Binary commissions are calculated daily and capped at $10,000.

Matrix Commissions

WCM777 use a 2×15 matrix to pay out membership position commissions, based on the amount of membership positions affiliates in a downline purchase.

A 2×15 matrix places a WCM777 affiliate at the top of the matrix, with two positions directly under them (level 1). In turn, these two positions branch out into another 2 positions (level 2) and so on and so forth down 15 levels.

Practically speaking, a 2×15 matrix looks exactly like a binary, however a binary is not restricted in depth.

Commissions wise WCM777 pay out $6 per affiliate-purchased position in a matrix. How many levels an affiliate is paid out on depends on how much money they spend on their own membership position:

Junior Distributor – 7 levels

Supervisor – 9 levels

Manager – 11 levels

Senior Manager – 13 levels

Director – 15 levels

Global Buying Bonus

Whereas the above commissions are all tied into an affiliates own downline efforts or that of their up and downlines, the Global Buying Bonus is a 3×7 matrix that is company-wide.

Membership positions bought globally within the company are placed into a giant matrix, of which each affiliate-purchased position receives a 3×7 matrix inside of.

This matrix operates in the same manner as the 2×15 matrix above, but instead has three positions on the first level, nine on the second and so on and so forth down seven levels.

WCM777 pay out $7 per position purchased which is added into an affiliates 3×7 matrix.

Profit Points

Profit Points are issued with each membership position purchase, with WCM777 claiming that the points ‘will be turned into stock when WCM goes public on NASDAQ‘.

In addition to points generated on the purchase of membership positions, 20% of all WCM777 affiliate’s earnings are held by the company “to purchase profit points” with.

Joining WCM777

Affiliate membership to WCM777 appears to be free, however affiliates are required to purchase membership positions in order to generate commissions.

Conclusion

Product wise I have no idea why WCM777 list WCM7’s cloud-based services on their website. The cloud services have nothing to do with WCM777’s compensation plan or commission structure.

The idea that affiliates are somehow purchasing access to WCM7 cloud-based services fall flat when you consider that affiliates can purchase multiple positions in the compensation plan. Re-investment via repurchase of positions only makes any such claims even more absurd.

Compensation plan wise WCM777 pretty much resembles that of your typical Ponzi scheme. Affiliates put in money and the more money they put in the more money they get out.

Affiliates join the company and then pick an investment level they wish to invest in at. Upon doing this WCM777 pay them a passive 100 day ROI, with additional commissions paid out if they recruit others who make investments with the company.

The WCM777 website attempts to pass off the supposed legitimacy of World Capital Market Inc. as itself somehow legitimizing WCM777’s business model, however I fail to see anything not indicating that WCM777 simply take in new investor money and pay it back out to existing investors over 100 days.

WCM7’s cloud-based services don’t even appear to be up and running, further strengthening the probability of affiliate money being shuffled around within WCM777 to pay everyone out.

I did see some waffle about a Kingdom Card and merchants, but this was touted as “coming soon” and similarly appeared to have nothing to do with WCM777’s current business model or investment returns they are paying out.

The Profit Points was interesting, with WCM777 withholding 20% of earnings to convert into these points on the promise of a later public float of the company.

Let me blunt in saying this is never going to happen with the current Ponzi scheme themed WCM777 business model. Additionally, whether WCM777 have registered themselves with the SEC is not clarified on their website.

Additionally the registration of World Capital Market in the BVI pretty much gives the game away.

Bottom line?

WCM777 create huge liabilities on each position purchased far beyond the 100 day ROI they guarantee. Once matrix, binary and referral commissions are factored in, the sustainability of the scheme hits truly astronomically ridiculous levels.

And of course underscoring this is the time-tested flaw all Ponzi schemes suffer from, that being that once affiliates stop purchasing membership positions, those 100 day “guaranteed passive returns” aren’t so guaranteed anymore.

In order to abide by the specific rules and regulations of different countries, WCM777 has not entered into the Chinese market.

Any agent who joined WCM777 through a third-party country or the internet must comply with the local laws and regulations, and legally operate abiding by the relevant laws of the host countries.

Should there be any violation of laws, the agent shall be fully liable for the consequences. WCM777 assumes no responsibility for any charge.

Simply put, whether they are indeed registered in the US or in actuality China (which the above text from WCM777’s Income Disclosure Statement suggests), WCM777 as an MLM business opportunity isn’t going to end well.

425 Comments on “WCM777 Review: Cloud services & investment returns”

Simply put, whether they are indeed registered in the US or in actuality China (which the above text from WCM777′s Income Disclosure Statement suggests), WCM777 as an MLM business opportunity isn’t going to end well.

Ya Think?

Many Many Many Zeek/Profitable Sunrise/ Telexfree and the Chineese CBSomething168 money game scammers have been calling and promoting this ‘bucket’ of bloodsport project to me…

It was pitched as an ‘offshore’ program where the feds couldnt get their grubby hands on what was developing…my response was/is… yes!…but they CAN get you!

I watched the iWowwe marketing video just a minute ago…what the heck has been happening with our beautiful ‘Next Best Chance for the Average Person’ industry…

Those two scruffy boys have done a pretty good job of being ‘Bad-Assed Marketers’ and they seem like OK enough guys but the trends lately are that emerging deals like this turd of a deal at WCM777, iWowwi, PS, Telex, Zeek and the CB?168 deals all have a bit of an ‘edge’ component to them…

The website simply looks like cheap scam = “social proofs” stacked onto each other, no real business functions, no real business language, minimalistic content (“News” and the 6 links on the front page leads to the same popups).

* 45 hits for “site:wcm777.com” = practically no content

If the website reflects the organizers, they’re clearly unprofessional.

Welcome to WCM777, the marketing branch for WCM (World Capital Market). WCM has offices around the world.

WCM has manages assets for over 700 institutions such as Hilton, GE, Denny’s, Albertsons, Savon Pharmacy, Siemans, just to name a few. They are presently managing over $4.7 billion in assets. One of their main products is Cloud technology.

WCM777 is not a MLM company. It’s a social capital company, with the high goal of building a global community trust and love. The first Internet revolution is led by Google and Amazon; the second Internet revolution is led by Facebook and Twitter and etc.

It’s all about reducing transaction cost and creating prosperity. The implicit here is all about relationship. WCM777 is leading the 3rd Internet revolution by building a global community trust and love. Like Jesus, coming into the world but be of different of the world.

WCM777’s cloud products and Kingdom Card are open to all people, not just MLM people. MLM is like promotion strategy for the company. Its existing promotion has time limits.

The company’s strategy to compete with time and grow big fast. One of its products is unlimited cloud storage, only charge $5.99 a month, much cheaper than Dropbox and Google Drive.

The founder, Phil Ming Xu’s strategy is to be united by love and reclaim the 7 mountains. God gives him the vision of ending time. It’s time to build the storehouse to prepare the 7 years famine like Joseph in Old Testament.

The Babylon system will collapse inevitably as revealed in the Revelation of Bible. It’s time to build a Goshen place for Christian by building a transitional kingdom before the tribulation time and Millennium Kingdom.

Right now, the company is BVI registered and operates offshore. USA is a service place. The company haven’t really open USA market. The company is planning to register with MLM association while promoting in USA.

Most of members are now from China and Brazil. Its English sites are being polished and updated.

MLM is like promotion strategy for the company. Its existing promotion has time limits.

Riiiiiiight…

MLM compensation plan? MLM company.

One of its products is unlimited cloud storage, only charge $5.99 a month, much cheaper than Dropbox and Google Drive.

That’s all very well, but it has nothing to do with the compensation plan or how affiliates are paid out.

Affiliates invest money in WCM777 and earn a passive daily ROI.

Right now, the company is BVI registered and operates offshore. USA is a service place. The company haven’t really open USA market. The company is planning to register with MLM association while promoting in USA.

Yeah good luck with that.

The SEC don’t give a rat’s arse about Phil Ming Xu’s religious philosophy or how it supposedly justifies running a Ponzi scheme. Neither do I.

The company’s products are open to all people, not just MLM people. Thus, it can’t be defined as MLM company.

“MLM people” is not a race. MLM people participate in MLM business opportunities. WCM777 is an MLM business opportunity in that it uses an MLM compensation plan.

Also it’s not passive return, it’s like products rebates.

Nah. It’s a passive return.

The “but we’re buying products” argument falls short when you consider affiliates re-invest their ROI into multiple positions (someone needs thousands of copies of the same cloud-based services? Riiiiight).

Lastly, the promotion has a time limit and it’s not a Ponzi Game.

Just because you set a limit on the number of days the ROI is paid doesn’t make it any less of a Ponzi scheme.

The company operates at a loss in the beginning in order to grow big fast.

There is no justification for Ponzi schemes.

Amazon

does not use an MLM style compensation plan and is thus entirely irrelevant.

I pay WCM777 $x, they pay me a specified return (implied guarantee) of >$x over 100 days. Where does the money come from? Other affiliates. It’s a Ponzi scheme.

John:
I buy a product for $2000. The company pay me back $1600 in 100 days. It’s kind of product rebates. Because I still paid $400 for the software products. That’s exactly WCM777 is doing.

Also the company has new products also like anti-cancer herbal.

Oh, nice. Inviting investigations by the AG’s, the SEC, AND the AMA.

Have the principals of WCM777 consulted with the proper and legal professional advisers, or are they just taking a gamble on “a pretty cool idea”, hoping it works? Because it sure sounds like the launch of a “big money grab and disappearance” in the making.

I made a comment about the confusing website, the lack of normal business logic used on that site. Can you explain it briefly to the audience, e.g. an explanation starting with “The website is organized …”?

The upper part of the front page is totally covered with a revolving picture system, a system that later can be used for marketing banners. That’s OK, but it completely dominated the screen.

The lower part of the front page is organized in a similar way, but with “menu choices” rather than pictures, in 2 different groups each with 3 choices (leading to “articles” or “galleries”).
* “News” (including “Merry Christmas”)
* “Events”

And then it has some bottom links, e.g. “Privacy Policy”.

THE MAIN IDEA?

Please explain the idea here?

The website seems to have been put up as a training object for a website programmer, for the purpose of testing different functions from several demo scripts found in a “Programmer’s Forum” on the internet.

The only potential business function I found there was that people could log in as affiliates.

Most of the material revolved around the idea “build up a story about Xu Ming as a successful business man, by showing pictures from a few events”?
* The idea is probably that visitors will enter the website, look at the pictures and draw the conlusion that Xu Ming is a successful business man? Is that really necessary?

The other material revolved around “Siemens”, “Certificate of Incorporation” and “Merry Christmas”.
* The first two can be used as “social proofs”, e.g. showing people that the company actually is registered somewhere.
* I had trouble understanding the “Merry Christmas”?

CONCLUSION
If I have interpreted it correctly, WCM777’s PRIMARY business idea is “Let affiliates log into the system”. Is that correct?

Its SECONDARY business idea seems to be “Confuse potential enemies”. Is that correct?

The strategy seems to revolve around a “filter system”.
* let the lowest of the “low hanging fruits” pass through
* filter out anyone else, by wishing them Merry Christmas in July

OMG are the comments on the pump and dump funny! This money game is a clear money grab bucket, this one will swoop in and grab the greedy with the promise of they being ‘positioned’ first thereby profitable at the expense of the followers….

There already appears to be the same old knuckleheads in this deal, from the calls and emails I’ve received it looks like a brand new freshman class has been recruited into the college of hard knocks

this is b.s. if returns like this were being handed out, there would be no need to give a recruiting bonus…people would be in line with their life savings ready to go…and word would spread faster than anyone could recruit…

the sites technical and administrative contact email addresses are free hotmail accounts…when was the last time you saw a big baller company that said contact me at hotmail.com…lol…this shit is stupid

The website didn’t contain any business logic at all = “What will people be looking for when visiting our website?”. So it actually contradicts the story about Xu Ming being an experienced and successful business man.

In addition, the website seems to be a failed project that never managed to launch properly. It has randomly added new pages, often with several months between them.

My guess is that one of the TelexFree top earners from Brazil has set it up as a “Plan B”, and that WCM777 is his first attempt to launch his own program. It clearly reflects that he has very little real business experience, but that he has managed to pick up a few ideas about how to pretend he’s running a business.

And what *can* you do with those rewards points, and why would people WANT them? Hmmm? And are you calling those who say you get money liars? Perhaps you’re just skipping a step, the ability to withdraw those points from an eWallet?

Just a commentto explain some reviews. I am a member and I understand and agree with some things in previous comments.

However when presented this to me it was made CLEAR that this was just in start-up phase, especially in US and many of the program, products website info, etc, would not be available right away, and no promises were made as to time frame. With any new group, this may happen.

Also the wcm777 site is different than the member website which is wcm7.com. One being for product and one services, member support etc. and also another web 1and300.net, which has more info about other monies and products. Many of the review comments were from uniformed people looking at an incomplete picture.

Jerry S:
Also the wcm777 site is different than the member website which is wcm7.com. One being for product and one services, member support etc. and also another web 1and300.net, which has more info about other monies and products.

So the websites that pops up in search results aren’t the real websites?

My comments were about the websites I FOUND, not other websites that may exist somewhere on the internet. I found WCM777.com and a clone to it when I searched for the company in early July.

However when presented this to me it was made CLEAR that this was just in start-up phase, especially in US and many of the program, products website info, etc, would not be available right away, and no promises were made as to time frame. With any new group, this may happen.

So the story they told me about Xu Ming being a highly successful business man shouldn’t have been a part of the story?

They started develop the website in the second half of 2012. It looks like someone has tried to start his first MLM company ever, but haven’t been able to finish his initial plans.

With any new group, this may happen.

Exactly my conclusion too. This is a completely new group, and for some reason they must have thought the Xu Ming story would be something that would attract investors.

It’s basically a new group of people, pretending to be something (for some reasons). It will probably come as a big surprise to people when they reveal who they really are.

If WCM wanted to violate SEC laws, don’t you think it would have been a-little easier to do it with Securities markets or lending or something a-little closer to home like that cush little Mutual Fund you buy with your residuals you earned from your downlines?

The same old questions that have probed and plagued MLM co’s in regards to SEC investigations are not going to change anything. That has to do with the nature of direct sales and relational marketing and how the government is trying to deal with each and every one of them.

The marketing material is exactly what it says it is. The idea is to build-up and not tear down the economies and markets that were affected by recent hits both in the meltdown of the dollar, the collapse of housing and lending markets and every other economic crisis that is currently plaguing America and the world.

(Ozedit: offtopic remarks about banks removed)

There is a transaction cost involved and a direct product consumption with the WCM777 compensation plan and its Affiliate base. This generates significant profit on a financial statement.

The product is real and tangbile although it is not fully launched albeit the cloud product has a way to go before you can viably assess its value on a balance sheet or cash flow statement. The Social Capital platform is the only platform that really provides the MLM industry with a platform to participate in a otherwise closed finance deal.

Sure WCM and its partners stand to reap billions if the IPO launch of its clients come to pass but what is important to understand is that WCM and its partners stand to lose much before they can recoup anything back, let alone its initial investment that was stipulated on its term sheet with the development stage co. with which it chooses to represent MLM’ers too.

That’s why the person above alluded to Google’s technology. Google did not see a return for years, even after continuous injections of VC money. In this case here, the investment is not in the product or technology, it is in social capital, that means the MLM team! YOU!

Look at Google now, who can you name that is positioned better than them in their market and industry! In the case of 777, the offering is to the Affiliate rather than the VC firm and you enjoy the reward of a advanced profit-share while helping to capitalize a up-start co.

Yeah so I don’t really know what the above comment has to do with the blatant unregistered securities WCM777 are offering their affiliates, or the obvious Ponzi scheme they’ve got going (oh they have a tangible product but it’s not even launched yet? Nothing suss).

I had to remove alot of the waffle as was crapping on about Bernie Madoff and investment banks, then there was the bit about blaming “us” for the banking problems of the US.

Right.

I suggest some background reading on the SEC’s interaction with MLM companies who think they can offer affiliates ROIs paid out of new affiliate investments and promises of IPO shares.

Embargo: In the case of 777, the offering is to the Affiliate rather than the VC firm and you enjoy the reward of a advanced profit-share while helping to capitalize a up-start co.

Securities law makes that illegal. You can’t solicit money from random people off the street to start your business except as donations, not investments. Random Joe off the street don’t know the market, don’t know the risks, etc.

Go research the laws before you come back and harp about how unfair it is and all that. Specifically, SEC disclosure laws, “accredited investor”, and all that.

Frankly, I doubt any of this is in any official presentation, and you just invented most of it. I’d love to be proven wrong though.

Let’s see how long this lasts. There are people all around me that are forking over $5000, $7,000, $10,000 into this ponzi WCM777. These are working-class people that don’t have a lot of money to begin with. Greed and a quick return is what motivates these blind people.

There is another scammer in Rowland Hts., CA that is posing as a Christian Pastor, and an investment banker. His name is Tony Ing and he is a Chinese con artist. If you ever meet him….run away! He has a blind following of cult members that give him huge amounts of money and property (real estate), based on verbal promises (no documentation).

It is pure “bull-sh*t”. Why educated people will pour money into a Chinese off-shore company, based on a cheesy website is beyond me.

There is an old saying in America, “A dumba$$ and his money are soon parted”

I don’t get what the fuss is all about. Based on the review and the comments about this business, it makes one to actually want to find out what the real deal is. So, I put down $2000 to test the business.

I don’t get why some people are so against making money by calling it “greed and a quick return is what motivates these blind people”! M. Bareng so let me ask you this because you obviously have invested money with your bank to make money, now who calls it greed and you a blind man, huh?

Of course, you will deny it saying you aren’t greedy and that banks don’t make you quick money! However, what you mean to really say is that banks won’t likely make you the kind of money you wanted to begin with but will certainly loose your money, money you didn’t want to loose!

Banks won’t make you rich if you aren’t rich to begin with! Why, so to make you, a good income earner, rich only for them loose? HA!

Got be rich to become richer with the banks buddy! You offer bank gold on your plate and they offer you gold in return. Try offering them peanuts on your plate and they will rip you off! Now WCM777 offers through its business model an excellent way to create wealth!

And the best of it is that you don’t have to be rich to begin with so that you become richer! So, if I were to choose between banks and WCM777, I choose WCM777! If what they offer is true then so be it!

M. Bareng:
Let’s see how long this lasts. There are people all around me that are forking over $5000, $7,000, $10,000 into this ponzi WCM777. These are working-class people that don’t have a lot of money to begin with. Greed and a quick return is
what motivates these blind people.

They are true believers in the “Bigger Fool Theory” = they believe there are many more “Bigger Fools” out there in the real World, eager to act exactly as they have acted themselves. And sometimes they’re right about it, there IS actually a supply of “Bigger Fools” out there.

That explains the “Merry Christmas” message in July. It will simply act as a “magnet” on all the “Bigger Fools”. Since they’re unable to see any meaning in a message like that, they will ASSUME it’s about some type of super smart business idea (rather than about a lazy programmer).

The “Bigger Fool Theory” is about exactly that, about people’s own ASSUMPTIONS and IDEAS, and how attracted people can become to them.

The “Bigger Fool Theory” is typically about getting rich, by using a “strong belief system” rather than rational ideas. A “strong belief system” will work for a period of time but will eventually fail.

It works in a different way than rational ideas, by reflecting people’s own belief system rather than the realities, e.g. the idea “If it pays it’s not a scam!”.

The theory will give lots of “affirmations” until it suddenly stops working, clearly showing them that there’s nothing wrong in the idea itself, they have just become victims of “poor management”, “evil gub’ment”, “rogue individuals among other participants”, or other factors outside their own control.

Wow! I just found out that a close friend of mine, a Filipina nurse, just pumped over $100,000.00 into this ponzi scam. Oh…..my…..God! What makes this even more sad is the fact that she was also in Zeek Rewards (Zeekler) and apparently did not learn her lesson. Before that Gano Gold or Gano Excel coffee.

What makes this even more astonishing is that she has a college degree. You would think that this type of MLM scam would only appeal to those of the lowest common denominator.

Several red flags regarding WCM777:

1) No corporate address (where are they located?)They show an address in California: 1218 John Reed Court, City of Industry, CA 91745, but this is an industrial area. There is no “Suite” number or letter mentioned, so where at this address is WCW777 actually located?

2) These are the listed phone numbers: Office +1-626-600-3500
Fax +1-626-600-3508. I called the office number and let it ring for 5 minutes. No answer, no message, no voice mail.

Ladies and gentleman, and potentially stupid greedy people running to invest in MCM777, I have discovered something!! I actually drove to the WCM777 address listed on their website: 1218 John Reed Court, City of Industry, CA 91745 (I only live about 8 miles from there).

Guess what, there is nothing there! It is not a valid address. I then went to main post office for the City of Industry, and they said that is not a valid address! I called UPS, again this is not a valid address.

The address listed for WCM777 is a “ghost” address that leads nowhere but to your wallet and checkbook. Wake up people, this is another scam and you are all going to lose in the end, just like Zeek Rewards and Zeekler last year.

One more thing, all the supposed “cloud products” and “kingdom card” are not part of the compensation plan. So in other words, you don’t make a commission from the sale of products and services, you can only make commission from signing people up.

Mykobra, most people that join this type if MLM ponzi scam do not research the company to see if it is even real. All they see is $$$$$$ dollar signs in their eyes.

READ THIS from the website:

Dr. Xu Ming has a master’s degree in communication management from the University of Southern California. He graduated from Harvard Business School PEVC (venture capital and private equity funds program), and also was educated at UCLA and the University of Chicago in finance, mergers and acquisition, and Wall Street strategy. He also has a PhD in Theology from Joseph Global Institute.

What makes all this so very disturbing is the fact that almost everything has a “religious” feel to it. The Bible is mentioned over and over, along with Biblical names, but the message is wealth, money, power.

Using words like “Christian” and “Christ” to make themselves millionaires and billionaires make me a bit nauseated. That seems to be the trend right now in MLM….just mention the Bible in your profile and suck in the money as fast as you can before you get shut down. For whatever reason, the easiest people to take advantage of are “Christians”.

Nice going, Mr. Bareng. Glad I was able to help you pin the tail on the donkey, so to speak.

As for why the name reversal, here’s the explanation. The guy’s surname is Xu (pronounced “Shu”) with first name “Ming”. So technically in Western form it should be Mr. Ming Xu. However a lot of Chinese names were written with surname first in Western media. Like that guy on trial right now? Bo Xilai? Surname is Bo.

Yes, thank you Mr. K. Chang for the head’s up. I just followed the bread crumbs to all the multiple 3-page websites that do not contain any information.

Just to let you know, I went back to the address for WCM777 at 1218 John Reed Court and I actually found the office. Not exactly what I would call a multi-million dollar business. The front door is locked, with a message that there is a side entrance.

I went to the side, and inside is made up like a church, with religious books and such, and a pulpit. Even had a donation box, though I doubt that they are a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization.

I met a guy inside that said that the “Kingdom Card” division is up front, and the WCM777 is in back, inside the warehouse/ garage area.

I’m sorry but I must say I was a bit disappointed. I really expected something a lot more “glamorous”, and “ritzy”. I expected marble floors and granite walls, with fountains and an indoor Starbucks or something, like a Cafe. Instead I felt like I was inside a hastily built, cheaply funded front for a money laundering ring.

I asked the guy inside about where the money goes when someone joins WCM777, and he said Bank of America. I heard that it was “E-Wallet”. He then said that the money then goes to China. Great……just what I wanted to hear.

He also stated that Dr. Xu Ming is moving EVEYTHING back to China. So the world headquarters will be moved to China, along with everyone’s money as well. Now that WCM777 is flush with American cash, they can go purchase a glorious building in China somewhere. Stay tuned for a “new” corporate address in Communist China very soon.

I have a feeling that this so-called church may be more like a cult. We will see.

I have pictures of the muulti-million dollar WCM777 headquarters in California, so how can I post them here?

I noticed on several websites, a mention about “reclaiming the 7 mountains”. For those out there that do not know what that means, I finally found a video posted by Xu Ming. Watch the video and tell me what you think…..

Simplest way in the future is upload them to imgur.com. You don’t really even need to register your own account (those pictures may be deleted as needed) if you do register you can upload into your own permanent albums.

M. Bareng:
I noticed on several websites, a mention about “reclaiming the 7 mountains”. For those out there that do not know what that means, I finally found a video posted by Xu Ming. Watch the video and tell me what you think…..

You can interprete it from many different viewpoints, but to make any sense you will first need to identify its connection to WCM777.

* scammers often hide behind religion, without really being religious at all. Phil Ming Xu (the name he’s using on Youtube) can be a scammer hiding behind religion, or WCM777 can be scammers hiding behind true believers.

* religion often evolves into scam, or “the goals justifies the methods”. WCM777 can be one of the directions for reclaiming the mountain of business.

The video was clearly religious, and disturbing in itself. I will normally try to analyse LOGICALLY the TYPES of audience “marketing efforts” or propaganda are designed for, what TYPE of people it is trying to attract. But that video is designed for an audience outside my “field of expertise” (business in general).

It’s probably designed for a religious audience, e.g. someone already in a religious cult or someone looking for “the true meaning of life” in religion. That’s clearly outside my area.

“Scam or religion?””

That video was “the real thing”, based on a real idea and a real vision, rather than scammers hiding behind a facade of religion. I can identify logically WHY I came to that conclusion, but so far I have only focused on the main conclusion.

“Outside our scope”

We will normally try to avoid too indepth discussions about something that only is of interest for “experts” or “true believers” in something, e.g. detailed discussions about nutrition products or whatever other topic only a few people strongly feel are their own “favorite topic”.

Religion is outside our main area. A few posts about it can help clarify something and allow people to add more about it later (if they have factual information). Too many posts about that specific topic will simply derail the discussion.

We should try to keep the discussion inside a certain area, and prevent it from derailing into other areas.

What was your impression / interpretation of it?

You have mostly used logically based methods, so a video like that should normally feel “disturbing” or “unwanted”.

Some logical information can be extracted from the video itself, e.g. the logical ideas and the people behind it. Some logical information can be found by looking at the list of other videos offered by Youtube at the end screen, i.e. they all seems to be about religious videos.

Try to ask more SPECIFIC questions, i.e. build up the logic behind the question first.

You did it partly, e.g. by identifying the “7 mountains” idea found on different websites and where your own research leads (to that video). But there’s still a lot of information missing for the TYPE of information you’re asking about.

1.
I can find some “WHY” higher up in this thread, e.g. “Wow! I just found out that a close friend of mine, a Filipina nurse, just pumped over $100,000.00 into this ponzi scam.”

The logical idea behind a WHY like that probably goes something like this: “This potential scam is targeting people I know personally. I want to find the facts in this case, and eventually try to find methods to prevent it from causing harm to people I know personally”.

2.
I can find another WHY in the same post as the video, e.g. something like “My research of the 7 mountains idea leads to several websites, and I found this video on one of them. Can some of you post something about your IMPRESSION of the video, so I can compare it to my own?”. Or any other type of logical question.

The logical idea behind a WHY like that will normally be about that you want a second opinion on something locally within the same post.

“If you receive wrong types of answers, try to improve your own questions”.

My question, “tell me what you think”, is exactly that. Tell me what you think about the video. Good? Bad? Total rubbish? Religious hog wash? Pseudo-science?

I have absolutely no interest in quantifying or qualifying the question posed. I believe it would serve the audience best that instead of criticizing my query, simple state “your” opinions regarding the 7 mountains of whatever…..

My opinion is this: I fully believe that there is a certain part of our (meaning the world) population, that has a propensity towards believing TRBS (total religious bull-sh*t). These types of people are the ones that join, or belong to “cults:/ Be it religious cults, or cults of money. The worst being a religious cult of money, like WCM777.

The people that join WCM777 are either: 1) Greedy 2) Ignorant 3) Weak-minded 4) Spirituality weak 5) all of the above.

Mix TRBS with an opportunity to become filthy rich at the expense of someone below you, and you have the perfect WCM777 affiliate.

Since I could use some extra money, perhaps I should start an MLM based on Christianity, God, and Jesus…….oh, wait a minute! There are many already. They are called “TV Christian ministries”

Kenneth Copeland has an 18,000 square foot mansion in north Texas, and owns several Lear jets. He is the pastor of a mega-church in Texas.

Here is a link to the incredible wealth of people who fleece God’s believers: inplainsite.org/html/tele-evangelist_lifestyles.html

That being said, Dr. Phil Xu Ming is just a Chinese version of the “God loves you give me money” culture that is prevalent in America today.

M. Bareng: I believe it would serve the audience best that instead of criticizing my query, simple state “your” opinions regarding the 7 mountains of whatever…..

I’m not criticizing, I’m telling you about how to get better answers. Ask better, more specific questions.

My opinion about the mixture of religion and scam is either that they are hypocritical or “disturbing”. Religion is a scam in itself (from some viewpoints), but that wasn’t the topic here.

It’s less “disturbing” if a Ponzi scheme hides behind fake or real religion than if religion extends to organize Ponzi schemes, e.g. as a method to finance the religion.

Normal scams will typically focus on individual motives, e.g. greed. Religion will often use “mass suggestive methods”, e.g. make people act as part of a group with higher set of values than the individuals. “It’s the cause of all evil” in some cases.

THE METHOD I USED

I looked at the video, looked at the question, it was too vague, I decided to set up one criteria about connecting the answer to WCM777, then I analysed “scam or religion?” for the video.

Then I pointed out that too detailed discussions about religion would derail the main topic WCM777. We’re analysing business models and stuff related to the companies reviewed here, e.g. ongoing legal trouble. But factual info of any type will normally be “within topic”.

Then I asked about your impression of it. Your answer mostly focused on the religious aspect of it, while I tried to analyse it within the context of WCM777. And then I picked up some logical info at the end without analysing it further.

In the next post, I pointed out the “ask better questions” idea. “Tell me what you think” can be about almost anything (within the context of the video).

I think what M_Norway meant, Mr. Bareng, is that instead of asking what people think, and hope they come to the same conclusion as you did (i.e. this is just a lot of stupid gobbledygook with religious words disguising a stupid pyramid scheme) is you should just TELL THEM then show them bits that prove your point.

Or perhaps, as M_N said, ask the “leading” questions and “lead” them to the conclusion you want them to reach.

K. Chang: I think what M_Norway meant, Mr. Bareng, is that instead of asking what people think, and hope they come to the same conclusion as you did

Relatively close, but my method “ask better and more specific questions” is more precise.

I could have answered something like “That was absolutely one of the most inspiring and professionally made religious videos I ever have seen”, and still operate within the limitations of his question (“What do you think about the video?”). Since I never watch religious videos, the answer would also be true.

The short answer “It was very long” would also make sense. Comments about graphical details would also make sense, e.g. “the third mountain didn’t look like a real mountain, but other than that the graphics were quite okay”.

I did identify something important = watching religious videos as a part of analysing Ponzi schemes really feels “disturbing”. Religion will typically use “visions” and “symbolism” rather than logical descriptions, i.e. it’s directed towards a different part of the brain. That will normally feel “disturbing”.

M. Bareng:
I have absolutely no interest in quantifying or qualifying the question posed. I believe it would serve the audience best that instead of criticizing my query, simple state “your” opinions regarding the 7 mountains of whatever…..

My impression is that the video had that “disturbing” effect on you. I pointed out a similar effect. I had the feeling of watching some “mad scientist’s guide to World domination” ideas, or other types of “evil genius” ideas.

But I was probably less affected by it than you were.

Tell me what you think about the video. Good? Bad? Total rubbish? Religious hog wash? Pseudo-science?

The video clearly reflected the “mad scientist” / “evil genius” idea I was talking about, the idea of World domination. It was based on a 38 year old vision about 7 mountains, where the mountains simply are symbols for some key areas of Culture (Government, Education, Media, Arts and Entertainment, Religion, Family, Business).

The vision was about “a list of things that needed to be done to reach America and the World for God”. The 7 mountains act as symbols for 7 areas that need to be reclaimed by Christianity (“to ensure World domination” added by me).

The whole idea is disturbing in itself. Religion will first of all try to protect its own interests, i.e. be the “main objective” for something. It doesn’t make things become better, it makes things become a tool for itself (for the leaders supporting it).

Phil Ming Xu repeated several “7 mountains” related quotes partly out of context with the other material. The symbol “777” was also a dominant factor on the website I criticized. My critique was about the lack of business logic on that website. “A brainwashed cult” can partly explain it.

I’m sorry Mr. Norway, I responded before reading your post. I agree with you on all levels.

And yes, the video did have a “disturbing” affect on me. Disturbing in the sense that there is a certain element of human society that will watch that video, and fully 100% believe it without researching ANY of the subject matter, the authors, the writers, the actual people in the video…….disturbing indeed.

Dr. Phil Xu Ming already has established a cult-like following, with the added attraction of becoming filthy rich.

After reading this post, I would like to know achievements and expertise in the MLM industry from those that are so outspoken about this so called “WCM777 Ponzi Scam”.

In order for me to “believe” your comments and observations, I need to be assured that this is not just another blog of unsuccessful, MLM haters…that would be like letting the blind guide my next steps.

So please, tell me your achievements and successes. I want to know what business opportunity is really working for you judging by your success.

It’s impossible to predict anything about this program. It doesn’t operate very LOGICALLY or RATIONALLY, it’s rather based on a religious belief system.

It has some type of “Exit strategy” in place, where your money will be converted to shares or something. When the recruitment dries out, you will simply get shares in the company. The money will be reinvested in other companies, and the idea is that those other companies will generate profit for the investors.

The “successful business man” Phil Ming Xu will simply release up to 300 new business ideas that all will make money, and make the investors filthy rich within 2017 when the company goes public.

RELIGION AND SELF SUGGESTION

We have discussed some religious parts of WCM777, e.g. the fact that the project seems to be based on a brain washed belief system rather than real business ideas. I made comments about “lack of business logics” right from the start, e.g. in post #11.

Sometimes it looks like a group of people using methods and ideas from a religious cult, combined with selfdev ideas and self suggestion methods.

Religious cult = all the symbols and visions, all the different “mantras”, all the visual effects, the lack of logic. You will find something in post #17 from “Dr. Phil”, “an insider”.

Self suggestion methods = all the repetition of symbols and “affirmations”, a method to trick the brain into believing something is real (you only need to help it a little).

I’m not sure I have identified it 100% correctly, but this program really is weird. It’s reflected in my first comments, e.g. when I visited the website and didn’t find any business logic.

Top half of the website was dominated by a “777” symbol (picture of nature / “harmony”). The lower half of the website had 3 + 3 articles, most of them were “affirmations” about Ming Xu being a successful business man. One of them was “Merry Christmas” (in July).

Business doesn’t work that way, but religion and self suggestion does. You will find several “religious mantras” repeated over and over again mixed in with more normal stuff, e.g. “reclaim the 7 mountains”, “build your house on a mountain” and a few others I don’t remember.

THE BUSINESS IDEA

So far the business idea have mostly been about convincing investors about Phil Ming Xu’s role as a “highly successful business man”, and the idea that cloud based services will be the next big money generator on the internet.

The ideas currently only exists inside Phil Ming Xu’s own head, where they are being repeated over and over again until they feel “real”. He has some people helping him make the ideas sound more logical and less like a belief system, e.g. to make the symbols look like rational business ideas.

C-Los:
In order for me to “believe” your comments and observations, I need to be assured that this is not just another blog of unsuccessful, MLM haters…that would be like letting the blind guide my next steps.

We don’t operate like that. You’re asking for something you can apply to your own belief system, a “proof” for that this website isn’t simply about MLM haters wanting to harm the “good guys”. We just don’t operate like that, you will need rational ideas rather than a belief system to have any use of this website.

You’re also asking for someone who can “lead” you to success? We surely won’t lead you to anything. This is not a religious cult, the ideas are more rational than that.

So please, tell me your achievements and successes. I want to know what business opportunity is really working for you judging by your success.

If you’re looking for someone to lead you, you will surely find many of them on the internet. You will indirectly find many of them here, too. You can try almost ANY program reviewed here, and they will be filled with exactly what you’re looking for.

Each and every program can promise you success. They are filled with highly successful people eager to lead you in the right direction. You can become all you want to be (or wannabe), since it’s already a part of your belief system.

I’m not very interested in having you as a “follower”, so I won’t tell you anything about all the “huge successes” I have had in MLM during the last 25 years, or about all the secret “success formulas” I have used.

I have been in MLM for over 30 years, and I have also been involved in a cult, called The Remnant and Outcasts Church with a Chinese pathological liar for a leader, a Mr. Tony Ing, (or what ever his real name is).

WCM777
1218 John Reed Court, City of Industry
CA 91745, United States
1-626-600-3500

Mission Statement and strategy of WCM777

City of Industry, CA, July 2, 2013—WCM777 is a social capital company, not a purely MLM company.

As a social capital company, with the high goal of building a global community of trust and love, transparency is of paramount importance. The first Internet revolution was led by Google and Amazon; the second Internet revolution was led by Facebook and Twitter etc.

WCM 777 is all about reducing transaction costs and creating prosperity for all. The implicit ideology is that relationships can reduce transaction cost and relationship is more important than money. WCM777 is leading the 3rd Internet revolution by building a global community built on trust and love.

We have no transaction costs in our global community and offer an array of products and services now and to follow to promote knowledge sharing and collaborative commerce. WCM777’s cloud products and Kingdom Card are open to the general public, not just MLM members. Our MLM similar style, at the moment, is our promotional strategy to scale and globalize our products.

The existing promotion, like daily product rebates has a time limit. As cloud computing is the fastest growing sector in technology ever, the company’s strategy is to compete with time, growing big fast while seizing the market share as the first mover. As such, one of our products is unlimited cloud storage, which only charges $5.99 a month, much cheaper than Dropbox and Google Drive.

As the founder and investor, Dr. Phil Ming Xu, he build a kingdom strategy for us all to be united by love and reclaim the 7 mountains. His vision is to build a “storehouse”, i.e. Kingdom Card, ?like Joseph to prepare for the 7-years famine, and to build a transition kingdom before the tribulation time and millennium kingdom.?

As of now, the company is BVI (British Virgin Islands) registered and operates offshore. USA is one of our service centers. Tiger Liu, a Tsinghua and USC graduate, is CEO and running the daily operation of the Company. The company is planning to register with MLM associations while beginning to promote its products in USA.

Feel free to contact us directly via (Ozedit: email removed) for any questions or concerns you may have.

WCM777 is an e-commerce company legally registered in the United States of America. In order to abide by the specific rules and regulations of different countries, WCM777 employees legal council to advise said company in all of it’s activities. WCM777 is not registered in China at this point. Any agent who joins WCM777 through a foreign country or via the Internet must comply with their own local, state, national laws and proper judicial regulations. Should there be any violation of the law, the independent agent shall be fully liable for their own consequences and furthermore responsible for any taxes, fines or legal actions incurred.

Ok, now that you have read the above message, do you see where it says that YOU, the affiliate, is responsible for any taxes, FINES, or LEGAL ACTIONS incurred?

You may ask why? Well, it is a ponzi scam….also there is the fact that MLM companies are illegal in China. That is the reason why WCM777 is operating here, and not in China (as stated in the WCM Disclaimer). Please see the article below:

I have read all these post with awe and amusement. Thank you very much for the information.

I have friends who are in WCM and some getting in now. Most are not blind and realize it will not last (WCM) but are strictly out for the money. You would be shocked to hear of the amounts being made by the company and some individuals.

They do say ‘Phil’ Ming is very charismatic and great at selling his vision/snake oil. I passed at meeting him at his office. Sorry now, I would like to add more info for you.

Our solution of global legitimacy is to implement different rules and system in accordance with laws of the target countries.

‘WCM777.com’, corresponding to local legislations, is headquartered in Hong Kong, China. WCM is planning to launch WCM777 USA, a company focusing on nutrition and health care product, aiming to help those with diabetes and cancer. Product concepts will be released in October, 2013.

Sounds to me like they just admitted their current business model is a Ponzi scheme (illegal in the US). One would hope they don’t try and pull a JubiRev, combining the Ponzi points investment model with products in the hope that works, because it doesn’t.

Will update when they actually put some new information up, for now the above is all that’s available.

Latest update. It seems that no one can get access to their funds right now. Is it possible that Dr. Phil Xu Ming has enough money now to retire comfortably in Hunan Privance? Time to shut down and and pull the plug?

M. Bareng: Is it possible that Dr. Phil Xu Ming has enough money now to retire comfortably in Hunan Privance?

IM(very)HO it’s a mistake to assume the people behind these endless chain recruiting / ponzi schemes are looking to make the big kill and retire.

In my experience, it’s far more likely their expectations are far more modest.

IOW, a couple of hundred thousand here and a couple of hundred thousand there is a far more likely scenario and easier and cheaper to accomplish than trying to skim off multiple millions from one “opportunity”

That’s how most Ponzi schemes start out. You only hear about people losing money when they eventually collapse.

It’show they suck people like you who haven’t invested yet in.

Even today there are people who will try to convince you Ponzis like Zeek Rewards were going to continue to pay out infinity money forever, despite their books clearly showing they were on the verge of collapse.

Juan B:
Has anyone heard anything negative about 777? Who has lost money? I only hear about people making money.

By the time you hear anybody losing money, the whole company would have gone kaput. Just look at how Zeek went… EVERYBODY who joined voluntarily just put aside their suspicion because everybody else did. It’s worse than tulip mania (go look it up) and nobody suspected a thing (except us critics) until secret service changed their doorlocks one day.

Do NOT use that sort of research to guide you. It’s NOT reliable. Legality of a company is NOT a popularity contest.

We want to hear the testimonies of people who have gone into this business and finally discovered that this company called wcm777 is a scam. Not the story of people who are outside trying to black-paint the image of the company.

The fact remain, if you have not tested something who can not judge it.

Gershom:
The fact remain, if you have not tested something who can not judge it.

We have tested something. You don’t need to JOIN something to test it / evaluate it. You don’t need to join “Hell’s Angels” to find out what it is about. You don’t need to personally visit Africa to find out that lions potentially can be dangerous.

It’s about using your own brain from time to time. There’s probably more than enough information available from the outside. You’re influenced by something else than the need for information, and you have convinced yourself about some weird ideas.

That’s a red flag in intself. If your own ideas have become irrational, you’re probably heading in the wrong direction. You can’t expect to become what you want if you’re confused by your own flawed ideas.

Gershom:
The fact remain, if you have not tested something you can not judge it.

You will believe me if I tell you that lions potentially can be dangerous to humans. You have relatively rational ideas in that area, i.e. you won’t ask me any questions about “Have you TESTED any lion personally?” or “Have you ever joined a flock of lions?”. I haven’t, but I don’t need to do it either. I already know people have rational ideas about lions.

When it comes to opportunities found on the internet, there’s NOTHING I can do about people’s ideas. People have ALREADY decided what they want to believe in before they start looking for information, or before they start asking questions or posting comments.

What I CAN do is to point out WHERE and WHY their own ideas sometimes are flawed, to make them stop posting more ideas like that. I can also PUSH THEM in the direction they already want to go, but I can’t push them in any opposite direction (that idea would have been rather ridiculous).

CONCLUSION?

Your ideas about lions are relatively rational. They will help you in the right direction if you ever meet a lion out there in the wilderness.

Your other ideas will probably guide you in a direction you’ll need to go, into undiscovered territories reserved for the “few chosen one’s”, the ones who have IDEAS and BELIEFS they will need to discover. I’m pretty sure WCM777 can become a solution to that.

My lion example was a gift. If you strongly feel an idea is “right”, test it against something else before posting it on the internet.

Would you make the same claims if we had discussed whether or not lions can be dangerous to humans? “The fact remains, if you haven’t joined a flock of lions you can’t judge whether or not they’re dangerous to humans!”.

If you wouldn’t make any claim like that, you shouldn’t do it either. Your own brain should prevent you from doing it.

3) It must be a good company because people are making ridiculously huge paychecks.

4) I will join too because I want one of those ridiculously huge paychecks.

5) I don’t care if it is legal or not; I just want to make ridiculously huge paychecks.

6) I will throw rational thinking out the window because all I can see is the money.

7) I will “justify” my actions and thinking by defending this company till it explodes or implodes. I just want the money. I don’t care if I lose friends or lose my credibility, or even risk legal action or lawsuit in the future. I may even lose my a$$ in this venture, but it’s ok, because all I see is the money.

“The legitimacy of an MLM company is granted solely on the merit of its compensation plan and business model.”

Thank you for proving the point. You have just contradicted yourself! That “merit” is determined on the basis of legal compliance. It is the job of the lawyers to ensure that such compliance takes place!

“Analysis of WCM777′s business model and compensation plan reveals it to be nothing more than a Ponzi investment scheme”

Are you a lawyer? I beg to differ! You probably just work in a field other than the legal field. I too could analyze this business model and conclude Ponzi just because it sounds like Ponzi to me.

Can you give an example of a business that keeps generating money for its partnership base without continuous invested money from contributing partners? To my knowledge all businesses require a continuous stream of money to be long term sustainable.

In the case of WCM777, money isn’t just passed around, a product is purchased which value generates long-term equity, the financial aspect being one of it.

And if you ask me “why should one make money from a product he buys” well, you should ask the same question from an investor, why does your investment make you money from having purchased shares in that company?!

By the way, you should look that up on Yahoo Finance via Google “Global Payout Inc WCM777 payment gateway”. I included the link for Yahoo Finance in the Oct 9 posting but apparently the admin omitted the link because it would blow up his whole Ponzi case against this WCM777.

Come on, do your homework and then tell me, ok? And if the admin refuses to post this message, it proves that this blog is nothing more than just garbage.

Thank you for proving the point. You have just contradicted yourself! That “merit” is determined on the basis of legal compliance.

Well considering Ponzi schemes are wholly illegal, what an utterly stupid argument to make. Yeah, your lawyers can tell you how legally compliant your Ponzi scheme is but don’t expect me to buy their psuedo-complaince BS.

If your business model and compensation plan reveal you to be a Ponzi, what lawyers say does not matter. This has been proven time and time again (ASD, Zeek Rewards and every other scam out there that has been shut down by US regulators).

Are you a lawyer? I beg to differ!

Beg to differ all you want. The analysis of WCM777’s business model and compensaton plan is up for all to see.

I too could analyze this business model and conclude Ponzi just because it sounds like Ponzi to me.

It is not a question of sounding like a Ponzi scheme, either it is or it isn’t. Follow the money.

Can you give an example of a business that keeps generating money for its partnership base without continuous invested money from contributing partners?

Sure, any MLM company that generates revenue via retail sales.

Do not waste my time trying to enter non-MLM companies into this discussion.

In the case of WCM777, money isn’t just passed around, a product is purchased which value generates long-term equity

Yes, this is the pseudo-compliance mantra of all Ponzi schemes, “we have a product!”

The reality is I invest in WCM777 and I then go off and masturbate in the corner while I collect my 100 day ROI, paid out newly invested affiliate money.

Oh and they’ll also pay me to recruit new investors too, also paid out of newly invested affiliate money.

And if you ask me “why should one make money from a product he buys” well, you should ask the same question from an investor,

You’re really going to try and draw a comparison between Ponzi scams and legitimate investment returns?

Yes Oz, as you said, Yahoo Finance your arse! To let you know, The Wall Street Journal has also ran the same story. So I guess that you got more credibility than Wall Street Journal!

Why don’t you then contact Global Payout Inc and The Wall Street Journal to verify the story published about them? I guess it’s too humiliating an experience for you but you know what, what’s humiliating to you is delightful to others!

And for me to make money off of other people (which is what is actually happening out there in the way our society operates) is an absolute honor and delight! I am thrilled to be able to suck in millions and even billions off of others’ pockets into mine so to experience what real money does versus what employment check doesn’t do!

WCM777 is here to stay and to grow and I will make the most of it to my enemies’ disgust! Ciao!

The President’s Challenge (also called Presidential Champions) is a program by President’s Council on Fitness, Sports and Nutrition (formerly named the President’s Council on Physical Fitness and Sports).

The program encourages all Americans (international participants also eligible) to make being active part of their everyday lives. The President’s Challenge is designed to help motivate participants to improve regardless of activity and fitness level.

To obtain credit participants must log in their daily efforts, which as noted above can include both sports and physical fitness activities. Each daily activity gives a certain number of points, the number computed by both its intensity and duration. Reporting is entirely on the honor system.

Each higher level award requires accumulating more points. There is not a time limit. Qualifiers are eligible for certificates, medals and patches. The lower levels are comparatively easy, while the platinum award requires a sustained effort, typically over several years.

Annually the number of people who reached this point has increased. Over 100 a year now earn it. Several have been awarded it multiple times”

$tart: Why don’t you then contact Global Payout Inc and The Wall Street Journal to verify the story published about them?

Global Payout is a C corp. They are listed in the pink sheets. Current market none. Last trade 4 cents. They obviously need clients. They are hired by WCM777 (maybe they are even partners)

Have any Wall Street Journal readers have ever heard of WCM777 or Global Payout. None. Do any of them care. No. Do any reporters or anylyst covers them. No. Global being a C corp is as much entitled to issue press releases as is Exxon Corp. or Apple, but who cares if they do and what news outlet will waste the space to print them?

None, until Global hires a PR firm who then pays a fee for the publication of the press releases. Bumpkins like you think this is news.

$tart: Yes Oz, as you said, Yahoo Finance your arse! To let you know, The Wall Street Journal has also ran the same story. So I guess that you got more credibility than Wall Street Journal!

The Wall Street Journal ran no such story. In fact, what you call a “story” is a press release attributed to Global Payout Inc. Moreover, the Wall Street Journal includes these words at the bottom of the press release you’re calling a “story.”

“The Wall Street Journal news department was not involved in the creation of this content.”

BTW, the AdViewGlobal Ponzi scheme tried early on to pass off press releases published on the sites of reputable publishers as “news stories” by those publishers. For example, some of the AVG pitchmen tried to pass off a press release through a PR service as a “story” in Forbes.

At one time, an advertorial paid for by the MLM industry appeared in the Wall Street Journal and was clearly marked as paid advertising. And yet the MLM Stepfordians tried to pass off the advertorial as a story by the Wall Street Journal itself.

That’s what you’re doing — and it is absurd. It makes MLM look ridiculous. It makes WCM777 and Global Payout Inc. look even worse.

Magic MLM dust and a magic MLM helmet also would be handy in case the NESARA ship carrying the reptilian aliens arrives outside the Bilderberg grounds and a chummy lizard announces that today will be the long-awaited day in which the banking and journalism conspiracies against “revenue sharing programs”, with magical ROIs and a confluence of magical commission schemes, will be exposed and the magic MLM spigot will gush and gush in perpetuity.

This person, “Start” seems to be in denial. What he seems to not understand is that there are good legitimate MLM companies out here, and then there is WCM777, that on it’s face, looks, acts, and smells like a PONZI scheme.

What “Start” does not see, is that all the huge paychecks are being generated by people joining and “investing” large sums of money. There is virtually NO commission from the sale of products.

If people stop joining, then the whole house of cards collapses. That is when the lawsuits start flying, families are broken up, friends are lost……perhaps Start did not read the disclaimer that states that all members of WCM777 are 100% liable for any pending litigation, fines, or legal prosecution.

So WCM777 assumes absolutely NO LIABILITY is the $hit hit the fan. All members are on their own…..no that is pretty scary stuff.

So “Start”, go join, invest your hard earned money and when the party stops, I hope you can get your money back, or at least pay back all the people you took money from. Because your friends WILL BE LOOKING for you.

There are rumors today that WCM777 has closed its US office, after the FBI started investigating it. The closure of the the US branch seems real. The FBI ivedtigation, Im not so sure. Does anyone has more info?

Found this ad posted by ToPacific in Chinese classifieds back in 2011: office for rent, on top of Hilton Pasadena, $100 for mailboxes, $500 for a cubicle and desk. If you’re a good business you can get investment and use the office for free.

Third Silicon Valley high-Year will be held on November 2 gala held in Silicon Valley, on behalf of the Organizing Committee of the Silicon Valley high-Year cordially invite you to attend the third Silicon Valley high-founding, the current confirmed speakers include former U.S. Vice President Al Gore, and Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak and a number of heavyweight guests. U.S. first Chinese lawmakers Zhao Maxim Chairman.

M_Norway: The official website should normally be more reliable than the Chinese website.

I checked them both, but I assess it differently than you. You assume the Chinese language website contains a forgery. I take it at face value.

The Chinese language link on the right hand side of what you call the “official” reliable website, presents IN BOLD (after translation) the following …”Xu Ming, chairman of stage presentation, the dialogue and the U.S. Vice President.”

Check it for yourself.

I can not prove that he will speak, but neither can you prove that he won’t. Either way I expect to see a picture of him in the company of Al Gore sometime in the near future.

That long series of slides in Chinese is even more interesting PR and potential evidence of fraud.

Kingdom Card, which was supposed to be a product of WCM777, is also presented as “WanTong Investment Bank” on one of the slides, but flying a 1and300 logo (orange hued instead of bronze hued) The 1and300 logo (bronze this time) made an appearance later as Gideon Business Society.

One more bit of data: You’re not going to find much on Ming Xu, which is also name of a real big industrialist in China, owner of a soccer team and all that. (Once made it to No. 8 richest guy in China on Forbes’ list) Another “sound-alike” swindlering?

Someone tweeted at Dennys why is their named used in WCM slide as “one of our partners”.

That long series of slides at WT580 contains some sort of claim that WCM helped sell shares and riased a bunch of capital, but slides are too small to read details. As Denny’s is listed in the US, I’m going to assume this is in China?

Hoss:
I checked them both, but I assess it differently than you. You assume the Chinese language website contains a forgery. I take it at face value.

Simply identify it correctly.

You have 2 different sources:

1. svief.org, where Phil Ming Xu is NOT listed

2. wt580.com, where Phil Ming Xu is listed as a speaker

There isn’t any logical reason for assuming that the Chinese website is more reliable and trustworthy than the original svief.org website. If you should trust only ONE of them, trust the original.

Photos won’t prove anything, not even the real ones. A Norwegian scammer (arrested in the USA for selling Justin Bieber rights to an investor) was photographed as a guest at the Royal Family in Norway (crown prince Hakon Magnus’ residence, among 20 or 30 other guests), when he operated another scam as a gründer / inventor / business man.

Some types of scammers will do almost anything to be photographed close to celebrities. Phil Ming Xu is of that type.

However you want to play it, but his picture and a lengthy bio are included on the “official” and “reliable” event website at svief.org/2013/english/guest/xuming.html

The plot thickens…

I wonder if he’s going to get up and start blabbing on about the 7 mountains like he does in all his other videos, that should go down well.

(PS. I edited out your link to the agenda page for a direct one to the bio, which is linked off the Svief “speakers” page)

Copy of the bio incase it disappears

In the 1990s, Ming worked for an international broadcasting company as a program producer in Beijing, where he gained intimate experience with the China business environment, as well as insights to global opportunities.

During the same period, Ming consulted with Fams, one of the largest marketing research companies in China. His client experience includes Fortune 500 companies including Motorola, Siemens, and P&G. Additionally, from 1997 to 1999, Ming Xu consulted for HLB International, one of the largest global accounting advisory firm; at HLB, where he focused on IPO, M&A and foreign investment in China.

In 1999, Ming co-founded Harmony Investment International in Beijing. This firm successfully closed several M&A & IPO deals and also provided consultant services to the government of Netherlands, helping with their investment strategic planning. From 2000 to 2002, he worked in the U.S. for a major telecoms company and then founded an e-commerce company in telecoms.

In 2003, Ming co-founded World Capital Market Inc., focusing on merchant banking business and has taken three companies public via RTO & IPO as exclusive financial advisor and pre-IPO investor. Before, Ming worked and consulted with Millennium Hanson Capital and Millennium Capital which advised China.com’s IPO.

He also serves as Chairman of the China Private Equity Fund. He is a roll up strategist and LBO expert on corporate transactions. He personally co-founded two public companies and led 7 companies public in USA.

As a serial successful technology entrepreneur, Ming invested and incubated 2nd Internet companies and Church Inc, including Kingdom Card (1and300.net), social advertising (OMTZ.com & Flyerboi.com), social Commerce (1and300.com; Weiganji.com); SOLOMO(Manna), Social TV, Social Capital company(WCM777), social education and social crowd funding & sourcing. As an entrepreneur, Ming sold one of his portfolio companies, a coal company, to China’s SOE for around $50M.

As a venture philanthropist, he created The Manna For All Foundation (1and700 .org) to reclaim the 7 mountains and build heaven on earth. He also founded Gideon Business Society(GBS) to pick up 300 leaders globally to build kingdom economy by love. He is chairman of GBS (1and300.org).

Sorry, isn’t he under “speakers and guests”? I also find him under VIP guests. Does that necessarily mean he’s going to speak? For all I can tell, he’s going to have a booth in the exhibition hall or something.

Yes and that is what I was referring to. The only way I know to reconcile this is for someone to call the event organizer’s contact number and ask. The numbers are on the SVIEF website or you can e-mail them.

* Discuss the best solution of cloud computer for Small and Medium Business
* How to solve the security issues for cloud computing
* How to transform a traditional data center to a cloud computing environment
* Business opportunities of Cloud Computing and Big data between China and US

That’s why I told about the Norwegian scammer, currently in jail in the US. He managed to fool “Innovation Norway”, the Royal Family (the Crown Prince), and different types of investors in different countries.

He played the role really well for nearly 2 years before he was exposed (an investor wanted his money back). The trick is to select an area where YOU can be accepted as the expert, where “they” don’t have more knowledge than yourself.

Some types of scammers will do what they can to look successful and get “visual proof” for it, typically photos and videos showing them among celebrities. Phil Ming Xu clearly has the same personality type as the Norwegian scammer (except for the religious part of it).

He is listed among Speakers and Guests with pic and bio in all three translations of what you insist is the “official” and reliable website. He is described as stage manager on the RT580. He is shown as a 10 minute speaker on the RT580 website’s schedule of events. WMC, the company he is presumably the CEO of is one of the listed sponsors of this Chinese American event.

There is no immutable Norway’s law that says that the schedule of speakers may not be adjusted to make room for a a short address by a Chinese speaking sponsor, which since the audience will doubtlessly contain many Chinese speaking persons is reasonably appropriate. Or Ming may speak in small room during the afternoon, or he may have a booth or he may sell Won Ton Soup in the parking lot, but he also may address the audience for a few minutes on the main stage as the RT 580 website indicates.

As a matter of fact he is shown in the “Speakers” column on the left, third from the bottom. He is also shown in the “Speakers and Guests” column (both on Norway’s “official” and “only” reliable website,) so it appears he will be “officially” be speaking somewhere even if its in the parking lot.

I sent an image copy of the amended (forged?) schedule to the organizers and may hear something back.

A News One camera was at the release of an alleged investment system that would allow customers to multiply their money in a matter of days. Like the Pyramids of history they use the pyramid to explain how earnings accumulate as each affiliate brings in more members. They claim to be the subsidiary of a Chinese bank that has no public record.

Presumably those behind WCM777 have taken stock of US laws and are no longer recruiting or signing up new members in the US. Does that mean that WCM777 has retreated back to, or is contained in Hong Kong? I don’t think so.

As the Colombian video suggests WCM777 is an investment scheme that can be promoted just about anywhere (like a franchise) and everywhere all at once (via the internet.)

If he shows at the event in Silicon Valley I wouldn’t expect him to openly promote WCM777 to a US audience. Instead I would expect him to promote Capital Markets Inc., which by appearances is an “investment bank” using China sourced funds to set up, fund and buy businesses in the US.

By appearances World Capital Markets is looking to put funds to work globally. They appear to have acquired one or two golf courses in the US.

Were Chinese-sourced funds made available by World Capital Markets Inc. used to start up and sustain the infrastructure of the abandoned WCM777? I speculate that they were.

If so, would it make sense to put the existing WMC777 organization and infrastructure to use in other countries such as Columbia where the “investment” environment might be a little more hospitable?

The RT 580 website indicates he will appear on the main stage at 9:30. Surely, as you say he will be in other rooms at other times.

99.999% of the attendees will not have heard of WMC777…. and its worth mentioning that WMC777 has by all appearances ceased to operate in the US…. so what does WMC777 even have to do with his appearance and why would he even talk about it? He is the CEO of World Capital Markets, not WMC777.

I doubt if he is a keynote speaker in the way you and I would define it, but his supporters and business partners will get a charge out of his appearance if he can get on the main stage even for a thirty seconds since “sharing a stage” with the founder of Apple and a former VP is a excellent publicity.

That by definition that would be a key moment for him, his business partners and for his RT580 community if not for anyone else.

Thanks @Hoss. This is all new to me after my mom informed me she had purchased a “unit” for me…I immediately went ahead and started investigating, and it all just seems wayyyy fishy. And repulsive, the way he’s manipulating people to invest, correlating it with some end-times apocalyptic vision.

I’m afraid my parents are already heavily invested and would truly appreciate any help I can get in order to inform them better.

Has anyone been able to confirm, outside of those pictures of certificates, that any golf course acquisitions actually took place?

I couldn’t find any evidence on the club’s website of any affiliation w/World Capital Market. It seems odd that such a huge transaction went down, and there’s not a single independent press release or business journal article (I’m not counting anything published directly by WCM).

I’m starting to doubt whether any of the business transactions are real at all.

I did find an article from local press that mentioned the gold course was acquired by World Capital Market.

I have no doubt this guy *could* have sucked millions of dollars from China (with EB-5 as bait) to buy US golf courses and whatnot. It’s just that there’s nothing in their own literature that says anything about investing in golf courses. The money allegedly is going into 1and300.

This thing is like a babushka doll… layers in layers. They’re probably going to say Wcm777 is only one of the outer layers and the core’s still intact. And 1and300 is yet another outer layer and an “investment group” run by them.

Stop Ponzis: Has anyone been able to confirm, outside of those pictures of certificates,

The Course at Glen Ivy is in Corona, CA., Riverside County. The County Recorder’s records are online but charge a ridiculously high price of $6 per search. I was not interested enough to start paying money to find the answer. The pro shop would know if the course was sold and who purchased it.

I’m not very familiar with WCM777 myself. I checked some details initially, and a few details more randomly, but that’s all. So I can’t add more than the other article.

From my personal viewpoint (e.g. if my parents had invested in something suspicious), I would probably have tried to “buy some time” (make them delay further investments). I would have tried to GET information from them, the factual parts of it.

I actually HAVE parents investing in something over priced, but that’s more about “collector interests” than about “suspicious investments”. The correct solution to that is simply to accept it.

There isn’t much you can DO if they already have invested money, other than make them delay further investments and try to get some overview yourself.

K. Chang: I have no doubt this guy *could* have sucked millions of dollars from China (with EB-5 as bait) to buy US golf courses and whatnot.

That seems to be a distinct possibility.

If a Chinese citizen placed his money with WCM, and WCM intended to invest in the US would that necessarily mean their payment was misused? If the great bulk of the money was earmarked or actually invested in the US might not his clients qualify for a visa and get exactly what they hoped for?

If you look at the roster of employees for WCM it looks as if there are too many employees for what the company purports to do and they all seem to be managers of one thing or another. All chiefs and no indians.

I doubt very much any employee or officer would divulge any information about ownership or business transactions over the phone. Not if they wanted to keep their job.

Interestingly, the Summerly seller (McMillin Communities) told the Press Enterprise that they couldn’t disclose the purchase price due to an agreement with World Capital. Guess no such agreement exists for Glen Ivy. I’m just wondering why the Glen Ivy people have been so quiet about it.

K Chang’s right about the layers here. Phil Ming Xu seems to be a bottomless pit of shady businesses.

Hoss: The Course at Glen Ivy is in Corona, CA., Riverside County. The County Recorder’s records are online but charge a ridiculously high price of$6 per search. I was not interested enough to start paying money to find the answer.The pro shop wouldknow if the course was sold and who purchased it.

Stop Ponzis: Summerly seller (McMillin Communities) told the Press Enterprise that they couldn’t disclose the purchase price due to an agreement with World Capital.

This is a typical agreement in such transactions for competitive reasons. The County Recorder transfer tax shown on the deed will often allow for an investigator to determine the price paid. The property taxes which are publicly availabe in CA are also indicative since they are based on the purchase price. Where there is a will there is a way.

Stop Ponzis: K Chang’s right about the layers here. Phil Ming Xu seems to be a bottomless pit of shady businesses.

I am convinced that WMC777 is a pyramid but that has been shut down in the US. As far as the rest of it goes the jury is still out with me. All the activity out of the Pasadena address is not encouraging, but then people do start small and grow into their dreams. Wait and see.

@M_Norway: thanks. I’ve been looking at that web article too. These two are the ones that finally provided some rational skepticism to the whole thing. Especially (most of) the comments.

I’ve managed to delay my parents purchasing me the unit and actually talked to my mother about it today. She stills wants to believe, but I’ve informed her of the risks. Please, please, please keep posting information as you discover it. Much appreciated!

K. Chang: The problem here is what’s on the paperwork… It can’t be World Capital Market, a California Corporation. That was suspended. It will probably be the Delaware corp.

It could be many things. It could be a Delaware or Nevada corp or an LLC or a Trust or or dozens of other forms of ownership from any state, or it could be an overseas corporation doing business in California. The possibilities are practically endless.

The ONLY way to tell for sure if the property was sold and to whom, is to check the grantee/grantor index at the County Recorders office, then at least you will know when it was sold and the legal vesting name of the buyer. There is no other way to know with certainty. This is why we have Title Insurance Companies.

If I said Chang bought it, then you would understand that there are virtually endless permutations of Chang. Which Chang? The same holds true with World Capital Markets X of which there could be dozens

darKnight:
I’ve managed to delay my parents purchasing me the unit and actually talked to my mother about it today. She stills wants to believe, but I’ve informed her of the risks. Please, please, please keep posting information as you discover it. Much appreciated!

I posted something about a Norwegian con artist. Phil Ming Xu can be compared to the Norwegian con artist, but on steroids.

(post 177)

M_Norway:
That’s why I told about the Norwegian scammer, currently in jail in the US. He managed to fool “Innovation Norway”, the Royal Family (the Crown Prince), and different types of investors in different countries.

What I’m doing here is to build up some additional sources to help understand the organizer Phil Ming Xu better. The Norwegian con artist shown in the video will probably reflect some similar type of personality, e.g. the attraction for being recognized as “successful”.

Being successful in reality isn’t important for him (Waleed Ahmed), the important thing is that people BELIEVE he’s successful and he can get some “VISUAL PROOFS” to show people. He’s extremely focused on “visual proofs” (even fake ones), and so is Phil Ming Xu.

Waleed Ahmed is ONE person (plus a helper). Phil Ming Xu has a whole organization.

Here is a response I received from the Administrator at the Golf Course at Glen Ivy, Corona, CA

Yes, the golf course did sell to a large corporation, called World Capital Market, LLC. We closed escrow on August 10, 2013, and are now operating under the golf division, called Kingdom Capital Markets for them. I hope this clears up any confusion or misinformation.

So there you have it…NOT World Market Inc.

Now the question is….What state is World Capital Market, LLC registered in and who is the Managing Member.

It’s interesting this guy is following the Tarun Trikha (TVI Express scam). NEVER engage the critics directly, but release dribbles of information through affiliates and let THEM release the info to provide plausible deniability.

Found his alleged Harvard photo, released through Facebook of a WCM affiliate, except HBS thus far has NOT authenticated it. Even if it does, it doesn’t really prove anything.

I am not saying that it isn’t, but there is no evidence that a Delaware LLC bought Glen Ivy. Your research shows there is an Delaware LLC named World Capital Market and that only hints at a connection. It does not prove it.

In addition to which it would not be unusual for a parent company such as WMC Inc. to purchase land or property through a single asset LLC such as WMC LLC to protect the parent company from liability.

This is a dead end until the legal vesting name of the buyer is known,including which state its registered in. That is a matter public record at the County Recorder which charges for the search.

Additional sources is about comparing cases. Waleed Ahmed and Phil Ming Xu have relatively similar types of personalities. darKnight’s parents may be able to recognize some similarities in the video.

Both of them are actually more than willing to spend other people’s money, whether it’s about buying a golf course, sponsoring SVIEF, buying a Porsche or buying clothes for $10,000, as long as it makes them look successful and gives them visual proofs for it, and helps them convince investors.

If I know that fact, I can simply start to ignore it. I don’t need to check each and every detail that pops up if I know WHY they’re doing it, e.g. if I know something isn’t very important in itself.

Phil Ming Xu is not investing in business projects for financial purposes. He’s buying “proofs” that can be used to attract money from investors. Waleed Ahmed did the same, and he switched to real proofs when his own stories met resistance. He tried to outweight potential bad publicity (doubts about the realities in his projects) by buying new and better proofs.

I can predict that we will find much more “proofs” than what we already have found. Phil Ming Xu has probably spent money on improving most of his other “proofs” (e.g. better websites, better marketing, real offices, real employees, etc.).

Wcm777, which they were claiming to be a subsidiary of WCM is based in Pasadena CA. Ming Xu goes to office there.

I have bought a unit from them for the amount of $1999. World Capital Market 9532 Olive St #205 Temple City 91780 and Manna Holding 150 S. Los Robles Ave #900 Pasadena CA 91101. Ming Xu #626 539 4177 Customer Service 626 600 3500 he comes in and out of these offices.

We already have a lot of information indicating that the main function of his businesses is to attract money from investors / other types of people (religious motivated donations, fund raising, immigrants, etc.).

A golf course isn’t very profitable as a business (some of them CAN be, but “Glen Ivy” doesn’t exactly look very profitable). The opposite idea will be that “Glen Ivy golf course” was bought because of it’s profitability as a business or as an investment.

The cloud computing idea is rather “thin” as a business idea. It may be an upcoming “next big thing on the internet”, but currently it isn’t. People hardly know what it is, but it has actually been around for several years. I don’t believe in the idea that people join WCM777 because of its cloud computing offers.

BIG PICTURE

I’m simply looking at the big picture rather than the details. When we first started to check WCM777, their strategy focused heavily on marketing the idea of Phil Ming Xu being a highly successful business man, e.g. with websites loaded with “social proofs”.

But they didn’t manage to reflect that idea. WCM777.com reflected “poorly planned idea, with no real business function at all”.

I believe they simply are trying to come up with more believable “social proofs”, e.g. by improving or replacing some of the first ones and adding new ones.

The opposite idea of “big picture” will be to look at the details, and interpret them one by one.

Wouldn’t the biggest proof be if the cloud services either didn’t exist or were non-functional? I would think the foundation of WCM falls apart when it turns out the cloud services aren’t a viable product. Any operating businesses (golf courses) at that point would either be a front or, at best, irrelevant to the issues at hand.

Given that the claim is that Siemens actually developed the technology, my guess is that the issue of whether or not the cloud technology exists will be answered when Siemens releases its official statement.

I saw something in all my Googling yesterday that Xu wants to introduce the Kingdom Card to golf club members. The Kingdom Card seems to be intrinsically linked with the Ponzi. How’s he gonna’ get away with that?

Stop Ponzis:
There’s no way he can cover all 7 mountains in 10 minutes, let alone unite everyone by love.

The dialogue in post #173 – #180 may actually have affected the situation, and made them put Phil Ming Xu into the list as a keynote speaker.

(post #173)

Stop Ponzis:
Sorry, isn’t he under “speakers and guests”? I also find him under VIP guests. Does that necessarily mean he’s going to speak? For all I can tell, he’s going to have a booth in the exhibition hall or something.

(post #180)

Hoss:
to cindy, Irislei99, info

Dear Sir or Madam.

Can you confirm or deny that Mr Ming XU will be addressing the attendees as indicated in the image below.

Thank You, Very much.

Bob Hoss

Phil Ming Xu wasn’t listed as a keynote speaker in the official program BEFORE people asked questions about it. He wasn’t even specified as a speaker in any other parts of the agenda, but he was listed as a general speaker.

When the SVITEF organizers receive conflicting information, they will need to check it with their own list. When he’s not listed there, they will need to assume that they potentially can have made some mistakes themselves, and try to correct the situation.

The corrected list now show Phil Ming Xu as a keynote speaker. SVITEF can have made those last minute changes BECAUSE OF the requests, rather than because he actually was listed initially.

The requests for information can actually have misled SVITEF to place Phil Ming Xu as a keynote speaker.

(Re: The CNN OpEd: As far as I know Xu Ming and (Phil) Ming Xu have no connection, other than Phil tried to use Xu’s identity to sucker people into thinking he was in the Forbes’ list of richest Chinese.)

Stop Ponzis: Re: The CNN OpEd: As far as I know Xu Ming and (Phil) Ming Xu have no connection, other than Phil tried to use Xu’s identity to sucker people into thinking he was in the Forbes’ list of richest Chinese.

I am pretty sure he never said that. It’s the gullible South Americans who can Google but can’t tell Asian faces apart that made that mistake. OTOH, I’m pretty sure this Ming Xu didn’t try to dispel that either.

Tarun Trikha of TVI Express tried something similar. He chopped up a quote from Warren Buffet to make it seem that Warren Buffet invested in TVI Express when Warren Buffet actually said he liked some MLMs.

Then the “distributors” went hog wild claiming **** like Warren Buffet owns TVI Express along with Sir Richard Branson. Did Tarun Trikha tell them to stop? Heck no. He’ll just claim “some distributors were mistaken”.

Speaking of bull**** affiliates… Vemma recently issued an edict directly from Boreyko that people must STOP saying NBA vetted and approved Vemma. And Dr. Oz does NOT endorse Vemma, and a bunch of other “thou shall not says”. (And that’s the last time Vemma will be mentioned here, go read the Vemma thread)

A warning to Al Gore about the possibility Xu Ming will take advantage of the picture of him (possibly shaking hand) to make headlines in his WCM network to attract more people into the scam. Unfortunately, Al Gore is not replying too.

Hoss: Really?What would it look like if it was profitable? How do youtell the difference?

From worldgolfreport.blogspot.com

World Capital Market, Inc., an entity led by Xu Ming, has acquired its second golf property in California. In August, the merchant banking firm reportedly paid $6.5 million for Golf Club at Glen Ivy in Corona. A month later, it bought Links at Summerly, an 18-hole, Cal Olson-designed track in Lake Elsinore.

The latter is part of a 1,481-acre community that’s being developed by McMillin Companies, the seller. WCM says that it has a presence in Beijing, Shanghai, and four U.S. cities, Los Angeles among them.

Xu (everyone calls him “Phil,” apparently) describes himself as “a serial successful technology entrepreneur,” a philanthropist, and an ordained minister with 30,000 followers.

Stop Ponzis: I sent SVIEF an email with the Siemens public statement. Pretty sure it won’t make a difference, but I thought they should be aware.

It might, and as we understand it, it should, but unfortunately if this guy’s company is closing on golf courses, then that trumps everything. The perception that will be fostered and promoted at SVIEF is that WCM has cash to lend or invest.

That is what the attendees are going to hear, and that is what they want to hear. A few might pause to wonder where the money is coming from but self interest will rule the day.

Can you confirm or deny that Mr Ming XU will be addressing the attendees as indicated in the image below.

“As indicated in the image below” showed something different than their official agenda. The image below showed Phil Ming Xu inserted between Al Gore and the next keynote speaker.

A more general question would have been much more fair to the organizers, e.g. “I see Phil Ming Xu is listed as a speaker at the event. At which part of it will he be speaking?”. A question like that could have been answered straight from their own updated agenda, with time and other details.

If you mix in potential misleading information as part of the question, you will need to tell the WHOLE story, with all the details they need to know (WHO you are / WHY you’re asking, WHERE you have found that other information, and so on and so forth).

The yes/no question will only work if BOTH sets of information show exactly the same. If they don’t show the same information, SVITEF has a serious problem (from their own viewpoint).

FROM THEIR VIEWPOINT

WHO are you? You are probably one of the invited guests (each sponsor will receive a number of guest tickets, including some VIP tickets). The people most likely to ask questions about the agenda are the ones planning to attend the event. You’re most likely an invited guest or VIP guest

WHY are you asking? You have probably been invited to the specific keynote speech highlighted in your image. You have probably checked the official agenda, so you’re asking questions about it when you didn’t find Phil Ming Xu listed there.

SVITEF’s organizers have few other options than to try to clean up the mess. Most likely it’s someone in their own organization who have sent the incorrect agenda (they can’t assume their sponsor have faked it).

You might actually have helped Phil Ming Xu cheating them. He was NOT listed as a keynote speaker BEFORE you started to ask questions, but now he is.

I asked you to analyse it from THEIR viewpoint as a professional, not from your OWN. Analyse how you would HANDLE the question in case of a “no”.

If you analyse it from your own viewpoint, you will only be able to come up with exactly the same answer as before.

The question only gave one valid option for an answer. “No, Phil Ming Xu is NOT listed as a keynote speaker from 10:30 to 10:40″ is not a valid answer from the organizer. It simply CANNOT be answered with a “NO” directly.

Just forget it. I asked you to analyse it professionally from the organizers’ viewpoint, e.g. using some type of experience to see it from another viewpoint than your own. If you don’t have any experience like that (as an organizer for an event, or similar experience), that method won’t make any sense.

In short, your question could be easily answered with “YES” if both sources listed him as a keynote speaker. If only one of them listed him as a keynote speaker, the situation would need to be HANDLED before they could give you an answer.

She didn’t reply to your email? That indicates a situation that couldn’t be answered directly, it had to be HANDLED first.

Business people will normally reply using the same method as you have used for the question (unless you have agreed on using other methods). The reply should normally have been sent the next business day.

Honestly Norway, I’m afraid I’m thinking horses, not zebras. The far more likely explanation is that they’re getting 100 messages a day and not answering all of them.

You’re assuming that a) the contact people for the event also control the website; b) no master agenda exists that is easily accessible; c) they couldn’t and wouldn’t want to alert someone to possible fraud (this, by far, seems the most zebra-ish) and d) they have any assumptions about their email senders.

Here’s the thing, they probably get communications from people complaining that Al Gore is speaking. They probably have mountains of email from people making bizarre requests. You’re just making a lot of pre-suppositions that seem a little far-fetched.

The far more interesting conversation is that Phil is claiming on the Twitter that he has a document that will prove that Siemens is wrong. Given that it’s hard to substantiate most of his CV, I’m going with forgery.

Also, in his twitter feed he compares himself to Jesus, and uses the common tele-vangelist phrase: “bless me and you will be blessed”. Sigh.

Stop Ponzis: The far more likely explanation is that they’re getting 100 messages a day and not answering all of them.

Of Course. You are correct. I, like you sent them the Siemen’s link along with some other very “interesting” things that have been uncovered. I do not expect any response and what they do with the information is up to them. Its their party.

Stop Ponzis:
You’re assuming that
a) the contact people for the event also control the website;b) no master agenda exists that is easily accessible;
c) they couldn’t and wouldn’t want to alert someone to possible fraud (this, by far, seems the most zebra-ish) and c) they have any assumptions about their email senders.

a) The SVIEF Committee should normally have control over the website updates, directly or indirectly. Iris Lei, Executive President, SVIEF Committee has direct or indirect control. She’s also the contact person and organizer for both US and China.

She doesn’t need to ask anyone for permission to update the agenda, but she will need to inform other people in the Committee about unexpected changes.

b) = wrong type of question. It won’t produce any meaningful answer. The “master agenda” should normally be the one posted on the official SVIEF.ORG website. But they will need far more than ONE single “master agenda”.

c) Exactly WHAT did you ask them about? “Couldn’t and wouldn’t want to alert someone” will normally require you to point out a potential fraud, rather than asking a question about the speakers at the event.

d) Correct. People WILL assume something if you don’t give them enough information. That’s exactly how people are. I pointed out the MISSING information in post #237.

The far more likely explanation is that they’re getting 100 messages a day and not answering all of them.

That’s partly correct. In the last few days before the event, they will probably receive 100 emails per day from attendees, speakers, sponsors, and so on and so forth. They will probably reply to EVERY question that need an answer (within some limits).

In business to business relations, replying to an email is the rule rather than the exception. If the question had been plain and simple, you would have received a reply the next business day.

K. Chang: I am pretty sure he never said that. It’s the gullible South Americans who can Google but can’t tell Asian faces apart that made that mistake. OTOH, I’m pretty sure this Ming Xu didn’t try to dispel that either.

Wow; you’re right. I must have seen it on so many affiliate marketing videos, I did assume it was coming from Ming Xu.

did you notice that the guy near the beginning of the comments defending WCM’s alias name was Dr. Phil? Cute, but it’s prob just the actual “Dr” Phil Ming Xu trying to cover the facts about his own bullshit company. lolz

SVIEF2013:
SVIEF is such an idiot event to promote scam. We should spread the words. Hopefully the attendees can be witness and expose his fake identify at the event.

WCM is a Diamond Sponsor, with all included in that (photographed with VIP guests, etc.).

He doesn’t fit in as a keynote speaker. I’ll guess he’s only temporarily listed, until they have clarified the situation. But Diamond sponsors will get a 5 minute presentation or something similar at the start of the event.

He has a 1 hour speech in one of the “workshops”, Partner Seminar: Investment Opportunity in US (Additional Pre-register Only).

The event is coming. SVIEF has no response on that at all.

They probably prefer to handle it internally. They can’t easily replace a Diamond Sponsor in the last few days, so it will probably be handled after the event.

If you want to inform Siemens or SVIEF about something, focus on the big picture rather than the details. And let them handle the situation themselves.

Siemens have already handled the situation, by identifying clearly that the subsidiary was sold already in 2011, the subsidiary that was used to indicate some type of partnership between Siemens and WCM.

If Goldpoint has an agreement with Siemens, it’s probably a normal business deal.

The big picture was about WCM777 using Siemens to add credibility to its own investment model. Siemens have already handled what they CAN handle there, i.e. you can’t expect them to check each and every subsidiary of WCM, CNPEG or any other known or unknown investment company owned by Ming Xu or associates.

If you communicate “details first”, only the few “informed people” sharing similar ideas will understand you and identify it correctly.

Siemens HAVE checked their own part of it, i.e. whether or not they have any partnership with WCM or WCM777. They have released the correct information, and they have also clarified some details.

“The big picture” isn’t about the details we currently see right in front of our own eyes, but about how the other party see the situation as a whole.

WCM and WCM777 used Siemens name and brand in a misleading way, indicating a “partnership”, to attract money from investors. But the information about Goldpoint’s agreement is simply a photo showing a small part of a contract, used to indicate an agreement between Goldpoint and Siemens China. It must first be used in a misleading way before they can do anything about it.

“The big picture” in that post was the conclusion, not the arguments leading up to that conclusion.

The conclusion was that they can’t easily replace a Diamond Sponsor in the last few days before the event.

The arguments have probably been published earlier in this thread, starting from somewhere around post #150.

The thread is about WCM777. One of the current topics have been about SVIEF 2013 (WCM’s role as a sponsor, Phil Ming Xu’s role as a speaker). The conclusion in that post has to be identified within that context.

SVIEF can’t easily make any major last minute changes to the agenda, so they won’t do it either. They don’t have any reasons for doing it either, i.e. other people’s suspicions about something isn’t enough to make any decisions.

Hoss:
I retract my previous statement. Your “conclusion” is so silly it hurts.

That communication method didn’t make much sense. You’re too much focused on your own feelings, you’re communicating them rather than the topic itself.

I identified the “big picture” in the comment = in which context it had to be interpreted and what the point was about.

The thread is about WCM777. One of the current topics have been about SVIEF 2013 (WCM’s role as a sponsor, Phil Ming Xu’s role as a speaker). The conclusion in that post has to be identified within that context.

SVIEF can’t easily make major “last minute changes” to the current agenda. Do you believe they can do that, e.g. easily replace one sponsor with a new one?

Oz:
Translation:
“Yeah so WCM777 didn’t have any agreement with Siemens and we got caught out, so now we’re taking our BS down.”

The controversial part isn’t about whether or not they have any agreements with Siemens, but about how it was presented and for which purpose.

WCM777 was trying to sell an investment and recruitment based income opportunity, poorly disguised as MLM with cloud computing as the main product, where Siemens was used as the second most significant part used to show “credibility” (Phil Ming Xu himself was the most significant part, Siemens was the second).

The issue wasn’t about AN agreement, but about THAT agreement they pretended to have, a type of “partnership agreement”. “We have AN agreement” is simply a poor defense strategy.

Siemens have handled the PUBLIC situation correctly. They have publicly denied that type of agreement or any similar type of agreement. How they will handle it internally or how they will handle the other party will be up to themselves.

SVIEF2013: I’m interested to see how he is going to promote his ponzi scheme!

I doubt he even mentions his association with WCM777 and his short keynote address should play to the theme of the vast possibiities of joining Chinese technical expertise and manufacturing with Silicon Valley innovation.(not exactly anything new, but regardless Ming sees himself as a visionary of sorts)

The venture capitalists will be there looking to invest. Entrepreneurs will be looking for financing and Ming will be there trying to get WCM inc.(or at least himself) a piece of the action.

Most of the victims say they invested with Yilishen [ant farming ponzi] because of its close ties with the government and endorsements by prominent officials. Company officials frequently appeared with senior government officials. The company advertised extensively on state television and received a hard-to-get marketing permit. But it apparently was only one in a spate of risky investment schemes. In most cases, authorities only moved in to clean up the wreckage.

Phil Ming Xu wasn’t mentioned as a keynote speaker either, e.g. by one of the reporters covering Al Gore’s speech.

Gore said he noticed more and more environmental awareness in China, including the increasing popularity of Tesla over there, during his at-least-twice-a-year visits. He added that he plans to go to China even more often.

We can look at other photos from Exhibition Hall C and compare them to Ming Xu’s photo(s).

Congresswoman Jackie Speier has 5 photos posted on Facebook, and here’s one of them: link to photo

People should normally have remembered him if he had delivered a memorable keynote speech immediately after Al Gore, before Tesla’s CIO Jay Vijayan and Apple’s Steve Wozniak, a 10 minute speech about reclaiming the 7 mountains and building a city on the top of a mountain. People should normally have remembered that.

M_Norway: Congresswoman Jackie Speier has 5 photos posted on Facebook, and here’s one of them: link to photo

Nice of you to provide the link but there are FIVE pictures on the Congresswoman’s Facebook page, one of which shows without a doubt that she is speaking from the same stage, from the same lectern and using the same microphone as was Ming Xu.

You may note that the same chair and microphone stand are visible behind both she and Ming Xu Same dark curtains. Same light projection to the left, people seated and visible in chairs to the back etc etc. The pictures were even taken from approximately the same angle and height, though from different distances.

Ming definitely spoke from the same lectern as Congresswoman Speier who herself was scheduled to speak on the MAIN stage just as were Congresswomen Judy Chu, Chinese deputy consul general Gang Bi, director of California governor’s office Kish Rajan, Tesla Motors CIO Jay Vijayan, and Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak.

Case closed. Ming spoke on the Main Stage just as he said he would. The pictures prove it.

A company called World Capital Market and its affiliated businesses are offering opportunities to invest in cloud-based storage solutions. The company claims to operate these solutions in cooperation with Siemens.

We hereby state that no form of cooperation exists between Siemens and the World Capital Market company and its affiliated businesses. Nor do we accept any claims made in any presentation or video by WCM and its affiliated websites.

The website wcm7.com and affiliated sites do not represent an official offer from Siemens. The World Capital Market (WCM/WCM7/WCM777) company is not entitled to use the Siemens name or trademark.

Based on the pictures you provided Ming and the Congresswomen were speaking in the same room. You can decide for yourself what room they were in, however the two pictures show the:

Same podium
Same microphone
Same chair position
Same microphone position
Same Curtains
Same Ceiling
Same large circular clothed tables
Same projection on curtains
Same location of seated persons (behind the stage)

Is it the Main Hall?

-Tall Stage light tower (visible in Ming picture)

-Large Room Video screen (visible in Ming picture)

-These two items are consistent with the Main Stage, the Keynote speakers and a large audience, not a Second floor Meeting Room.

Hoss:
Based on the pictures you provided Ming and the Congresswomen were speaking in the same room. You can decide for yourself what room they were in, however the two pictures show the:

Same podium Slightly different from what I can see
Same microphone How can you see that?
Same chair position But different chair?
Same microphone position
Same Curtains
Same Ceiling
Same large circular clothed tables
Same projection on curtains
Same location of seated persons (behind the stage)

Which photo(s) are you looking at? They are numbered 1 to 5.

1: Jackie Speier and Al Gore

2: Jackie Speier’s speech

3: Al Gore’s speech

4: Steve Wozniak at the table

5: The audience (tables, chairs, the ceiling, etc.)

The Phil Ming Xu photo is simply of too low quality to see anything clearly. You have probably compared the picture to itself to be able to come up with a conclusion.

M_Norway: Which photo(s) are you looking at? They are numbered 1 to 5.

Speier at the podium (the same one Ming is shown to be standing behind in his picture)

M_Norway: You have probably compared the picture to itself to be able to come up with a conclusion.

This is nonsense. What kind of fool compares a picture to itself. You have to look closely and compare many aspects of the two pictures. There are lots of details that are viewable. If you are going to close your eyes to it then of course that is your business. You may want to be willfully blind or maybe its something else, but its there.

M_Norway: I found a couple of other photos from Al Gore’s speech here:

Yes. You can see very clearly on the RIGHT side of the photo the “Big Screen” onto which Gore’s face (and also Ming’s were projected.) This confirms in yet another way that Ming was on the Main Stage.

If you can not visualize this or conceive how the various pictures blend into the whole then of course none of this will make sense to you.

This should have said microphone STAND position. In each picture the microphone is being used and the empty stand is next to the chair behind and beside them.

In any event the big screen, stage left, displaying first the image of Gore and then of Ming should remove all doubt. They are speaking in the same room, and so was Speier. They are all on the Main Stage.

The only thing that potentially can be used to identify a specific room is the ceiling, or the SIZE of the room if a photo clearly show the size.

Any equipment you see can’t be used to identify anything. The same goes for any temporary installations, e.g. the light tower and the projector screens, or the podium. The SIZE of the projector screen can tell something about the size of the room.

Oh, I see. Edlen Electical set up a duplicate room on the second floor of the Convention Center especially for Ming so that he could appear to be speaking on the Main Stage. That’s pretty wild. Do you actually believe that?

Hoss:
Oh, I see. Edlen Electical set up a duplicate room on the second floor of the Convention Center especially for Ming so that he could appear to be speaking on the Main Stage. That’s pretty wild. Do you actually believe that?

I can’t see how you came up with that idea? I showed a few of the different in house service providers to help you separate between “room” and various “temporary solutions” (like furniture, lights, curtains, podium, projector screens, and so on and so forth).

The CEILING is a part of the room itself, and can be used to identify which room. All the other parts you mentioned are “temporary solutions”, standardized solutions that can be sold as different “packages” (e.g. defined by the size of the room, type of event, other methods).

Hoss: Have you even looked at thefloorplanof the Santa Clara Convention Center. If you had you could not possibly make such a preposterous statement.

The place is able to be reconfigured, so he is correct. Ever been there? I have on multiple occasions and the place is able to have the same layout on multiple floors.

I don’t think it’s worth questioning if Ming was there or not or if he spoke or not. He has the fuzzy pictures the company needs for it’s credibility campaign. For all we know, they may have had a puppet show going on the same or 2nd floor. Doesn’t really matter at this point.

Hoss: If you had you could not possibly make such a preposterous statement.

How different can a convention stage be?

Stage in front
Podium on stage
Some screen behind stage
some cloth backdrop beside the screen on either side
VIP tables up front
Behind which are the regular seats

It ain’t my first time in a convention center. They ALL LOOK ALIKE because they ARE all alike except in size and equipment available.

I’ve been to keynotes AND side presentations. I’ve been to Oracle OpenWorld and various other professional presentations in Santa Clara Convention Center AND Moscone Center and other convention centers up and down the SF peninsula.

Not that proving he spoke on main stage or not adds or subtracts to a scammer’s credibility. “Bobby Thompson” got on newspapers, even shook hands with GW Bush and various Republican big wigs due to his “US Navy Veterans Association”, but he’s a crook.

Self delution combined with or initiated by a lot of other factors. He used the last few days before the event to cite rather random bible quotes.

People are able to follow him through the first parts when he talks about “the first and second internet revolution”, but from there he starts to get vague and blurry, almost like he’s talking “on auto pilot” and have lost contact with his own body. The speech have obviously been prepared inside his own mind rather than on paper.

“First and second internet revolution” is actually a very good start. He illustrated them with well known examples people are familiar with, e.g. Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Ebay, Facebook, Twitter.

He also combined the idea with other ideas, e.g. that the revolutions led to increased productivity and reduced costs = more prosperity. But from there it went down hill or right out into the wilderness.

Laptinek:
BEHINMLM 0 – 1 MING XU

Please point out YOUR idea of where he scored the point?

I have identified the first part of his speech to be rational, the rest of it to be rather irrational. I have compared his goal to this Youtube video “unbelievable own goal assisted by the wind”, or to “Bjarte Flem” (a 1988 keeper blooper).

Hoss:
He said he would speak on the Main Stage for ten minutes and that is exactly what he did. In this instance at least it gives him more credibility than you. Point for Ming.

That’s why I linked to the Youtube video. The keeper clearly scored a point in that video. “He said he would kick the ball and he did kick the ball”.

People will normally have some INTENTIONS with what they’re doing. Ming’s intention with that speech was to “ignite a spark” of some type. I don’t think that “spark” was about whether or not he would speak?

If his intention was to prove to himself that he actually was able to hold a 10 minute speech, he has clearly scored a goal “somewhere”. If his intention was to confuse the enemy, he has succeeded in that part too.

If his intention was to get photos and other “visual proofs”, he has paid for them rather than scored them.

If his intention was to show the world how skilled keynote speaker he is, he has failed in most parts of the speech. If his intention was to promote his own companies to the audience there, I don’t think it worked very well (but I haven’t seen his other performance either). The message in the speech was far too vague and “blurry” for a general audience.

I didn’t. I clearly specified intentions = the types of ideas we have BEFORE we do anything.

A speech can be analysed logically for intentions, e.g. whether the intention is to INFORM, EDUCATE or ENTERTAIN people or a combination of any one of them, or if the intention is to move people to make decisions and do something.

Phil Ming Xu’s speech started quite okay, by identifying early what the speech would be about (something on behalf of the humanity). “On behalf of the humanity” entertained me, but I don’t think it had the same effect on the audience there. But the IDEA itself is okay = “tell people what you intend to say, then say it”.

“First and second internet revolution” made some sense, if the intention was to “warm up the audience” and “build a bridge from known ideas commonly shared by the audience, over to the ideas you like to introduce yourself”. That part actually worked quite well.

“The third internet revolution” started as an understandable idea when it first was introduced. People COULD see a connection between the initial ideas and that idea. But the logical arguments needed to back up that idea were vague and “blurry”. He simply didn’t deliver what he indirectly promised to deliver.

It can be compared to Rippln or Wazzub. They both looked promising right from the start, but they didn’t deliver what they intended to do.

People can test the speech on themselves, e.g. does the idea of building the third internet revolution on trust and love make any sense? Is it an idea you feel comfortable with (e.g. if you should repeat the idea to an audience)?

Will anyone here make his ideas become their own, e.g. in posting statements like “I believe the third internet revolution will need to be based on trust and love, on network marketing and on an internal non monetary transactions inside a community”.

Siemens updated their official statement and claimed his JV agreement was a letter of intent.

A document provided by WCM to prove that a contract was concluded with Siemens is, as is clearly evident, a letter of intent. A letter of intent is non-binding and merely shows an intention to perhaps do business in the future (see Wikipedia).

This letter was signed by Siemens on Sept. 27, 2013, which is very much later than the alleged cooperation.

Under the terms of the confidentiality clause, we cannot provide the full text of this agreement. However, we can affirm that it has a very vague scope and does not entitle WCM or any affiliated company to use Siemens’ name or trademark.

We explicitly declare that no binding agreement has been signed and no products or solutions have been delivered. Based on the information gained over the last few weeks, also from the social media community,

Siemens will carefully review this business opportunity before considering to negotiate any binding agreement.

WCM777 cooperated with Siemens to launch a series of personal cloud service products

On November 26 2012, WCM777 has entered into a collaboration agreement with Siemens IT Solutions and Services Group (hereinafter referred to as “Siemens”), Siemens will develop a series of personal cloud service products for members of WCM777, so that the members can learn more details of “cloud computing”, understand the connotations, and experience the enormous benefits that cloud services products will bring.

Siemens IT Solutions and Services Group is a one-stop IT services provider under Siemens AG, their range of services covers the entire IT service chain, including consulting, systems integration, IT infrastructure management and software development.

According to Mr. Zhang Zhiguo, the head of Siemens data center and infrastructure services, they have built an efficient, reliable cloud services platform, which can provide customers IssS, SaaS and other cloud services platform, as well as facing the industry-specific customized services.

Mr. Wang Haoming, director of Siemens global outsourcing division of research and development center, said, compared to some well-known cloud computing technology (such as Amazon EC2), Siemens private cloud services is with more flexibility, it can provide a hybrid cloud model choice.

From many cloud developed cases, such as Shanghai Fudan University, Zhongshan Hospital, Qingdao Software Park, Chengdu pork detection system, & HiChina, Siemens has accumulated a lot of experience, so they can help companies better to achieve the deployment of private cloud services.

Goldpoint Technology Inc., the Siemens’ agent company in the United States, will specifically provide all types of consulting services regarding the WCM personal cloud services products for WCM777 members.

SVIEF2013: Mr. Wang Haoming, director of Siemens global outsourcing division of research and development center

Actually, the revelation brings up an very interesting question… Is that “letter of intent” even real?

If this Wang guy was “Director” (read: supervisor) in Siemens IT before it got sold (and he got laid off) with fiscal responsibilities, and authority to sign stuff, he may have one of those company stamps, which are used in addition to signatures in China.

Here’s a likely scenario: Ming Xu originally only intended to publicize that the cloud stuff only uses technology derived from those developed at Siemens by former Siemens guy. However, apparently that didn’t sell well, or it got “telephone” morphed into “WCM777 uses Siemens tech” and it got stuck.

We’ve found before that Ming Xu embellishes whatever he got involved with. He had a friend in China Galaxy Investments (in that Olympic fraud story) and voila, China Galaxy Investments appeared on his list of “700+ strategic allies”. This is another one such embellishment.

Then the story got away from him, when everybody else (presumably, the South American reps) started repeating it, and made up slides and whatnot. And he had to make up stuff to “explain” why he said so, esp. when his own face is on the line as he made his own video stating “relation with Siemens is real and solid”.

Now he had to come up with something to “prove” the relations, and there goes the letter. It may be “real”, in the sense that it’s in Siemen’s files, but I doubt any one at Siemens actually had a chance to study this intent. it may have been “backfiled” through a friend.

Actually, I think Ming Xu and this Wang guy were schoolmates.

Ming Xu’s LinkedIn says he attended Beijing International Studies University

I suspect this is the same school as UIBE, or University of International Business And Economics, which Wang attended.

We were unable to locate any information regarding this company being associated with Vons. Your comments will be directed to our Public Affairs department for further review.

Should you require further assistance, you may reply to this email or phone us at (Ozedit: number removed) and reference Contact ID (Ozedit: ID removed). One of our representatives will be happy to assist you.

Kingdom Card new withdrawal system got a message from Visa/Master yesterday: to comply with the international anti-money laundering law, recently all banks are restraining their policies. From now on, Kingdom Card has to lower the maximum withdrawal amount from $5000 to $2500. Sorry for the inconvenience!

For members who have applied to withdraw more than $2500, we will cancel the transactions and the points will return to the accounts. all those members re-apply to withdraw less than $2500, we will process these applications with priority.

Kingdom Card has been working on some new channels to fasten “the apply for cash”. Thanks for your patience and support!

But DR MING XU is a christian! He wouldn’t lie about anything. He’s obviously a more savvy business man than any of the people here (He went to Harvard after all) and wants to be certain at all times that WCM777 is on the up and up.

I am most certain he had to implement this after he and AL GORE had their meeting. I’m thinking Al asked him to do this to prevent Al-Qaeda from being able to exploit this excellent opportunity to be able to raise unlimited funds for themselves. Al probably didn’t want them to know that, so he asked Dr Ming Xu to explain it this way.

I’m sure the good Dr will show us the Joint Security agreement he signed with Al setting this ball into motion.

Not familiar with Zeek. I was just thinking the $2500 limit might be an early sign of the eventual withdrawal freeze.

I have a friend who “invest” a big chunk in this WCM777 and keep telling me to get in while it is still hot. For he knows this is a “hit and run” game. Should I get in ? Any thought?
Say, if I hit and run with a loot, would uncle Sam come after me?

You should go right in. Invest a lot “while it’s hot”. It’s the evil souls like you that I’d like to see getting burned rather than the innocent people getting into it WITHOUT knowing it’s a scam.

Patrick Pretty is reporting that the State of Massachusetts has halted WCM777 in Mass.

The Massachusetts filing is a consent order. WCM777, according to the order, has agreed to provide refunds to all Massachusetts investors. The scheme netted at least $300,000 in the state from about 160 investors, nearly all of whom were members of the Brazilian community, according to the order.

Thank you littleroundman for sharing the breaking news. As I said, this is the beginning of an end, which we are watching in slow motion.

I have a friend who “invest” a big chunk in this WCM777 and keep telling me to get in while it is still hot. For he knows this is a “hit and run” game. Should I get in ? Any thought?

Say, if I hit and run with a loot, would uncle Sam come after me?

Jose, sorry for being rude in my previous response. Here’s my cool response: it comes down to what you believe and guess what: COURAGE. I believe I should do the right thing and not partake in any evil schemes.

I have the courage to not join WCM777 knowing I may very well double my money in 100 days and cash out before the scheme collapse. I have the courage to do the right thing and believe I will be given godly opportunities elsewhere and prosper.

Note: godly opportunity does not equal an opportunity advertised by someone claiming he is a devout christian. In fact, I can say Ming Xu is not a true christian.

I read a lot of comments and I will give you my relationship with wcm777. I joined about 3 months ago paid the 2000, I have also borrowed 3400 from a friend who was already making 5800 monthly from wcm777 I was able to pay back the 3400.00 in a 7 week period from money earned through wcm777.

I now own 3 units and have also generated another 1000 in which I will re purchase the 3 units at the middle of dec. I will also have the 2000 per unit earned 1200 I will still generate from earnings (cash) and the 1600.00 in the reserve for each unit……

I will be withdrawing my first 2000 in jan, wcm777 has been working well money transferred to the kingdom card and then to the bank acct has been working well for 2 people I know personally………….IT IS WORKING WELL

I already got 600 back in my hands, but what I like the most is the nice working cloud system, few weeks back I saw some glitches but now is working pretty smooth, and the music APP has a wide variety, although many of the songs are chinese. To the moment no need to invite anyone to this “pyramid”.

Laptinek:
I already got 600 back in my hands, but what I like the most is the nice working cloud system, few weeks back I saw some glitches but now is working pretty smooth, and the music APP has a wide variety, although many of the songs are chinese. To the moment no need to invite anyone to this “pyramid”.

If there is a “cloud system”, it’s certainly not new technology, and it most definitely was not created by WCM. My guess is that if you’re seeing an actual site where someone inexplicably uploaded Chinese songs, it’s some knock-off placeholder for WCM to pretend there’s a product.

I have invested $10.000 in 5 units in Mid September. I have already received back over $8000 cash in hands, by January, I’ll have my investment back and at least 4 units paid for.

I haven’t seen any one complaining that has lost money. Only outsiders that are afraid to risk. It’s what I always say, if you’re are afraid risks. Don’t get in, keep on your comfort zone watching others succeed.

Well I paid 2000 dlls for a unit, and I got 600 dlls in return so far, may be this whatever closes tomorrow like any other model of bussines (or scam).

I am just saying, in an attempt to aport something to the forum, that some of the apps work just fine, same for the no new cloud tech (cloud powered is the flagship campaign of the new xbox one, if you know what I mean).

I’ll be the first one to come here saying it’s a scam, IF I see anything happening to me or anyone else I know. But until then, I’ll will keep making money while people keep whining…

For those thinking about joining WCM777… I have one thing to say, I was very skeptical at the beginning but now I’m very glad I did… My brother in law, has already got all his investment back + 11K in revenue in less than 4 months.

The company is less than one year old, it’s not likely that anything bad will happen in at least 1-2 years, so there is still time to make money, that is IF anything go south, which I truly believe won’t. But I can’t know for sure. So the earlier you get in the better…

It takes a certain type of person to be perfectly fine with the idea of blatantly ripping people off…

lol, It’s so funny how sarcastic and judgmental you sounded, coming from a person that might be a person type “saint” perfect most holly… kkkkk and even has followers like littleroundman #382

Oz and littleroundman. The fact is, you guys talk about what you don’t know… You are outsiders, people that don’t have a clue about the reality inside the company, only collecting scattered information you can find online.

If you guys had just posted your opinion here, even if opposing the business but with respect to other’s options. I would’ve respect for your position and would understand it. But to just judge peoples’ personality without knowing them and the organization based on history and other’s failure, that’s just too weak and childish.

I won’t even waste my time with judgmental, ignorant people like you guys.

To others reading this, I’ll be honest with you. I’m totally impartial on this. I’m not saying WCM777 is fully trustable or isn’t a scam. But I have done a lot of research from people that are with the company since its beginning and I have decided to experiment it. only time will tell the truth, so far I’m very satisfied with it.

I’m also with a clear conscience before men and God, that I’m not ripping people off as accused by littleroundman #382.

So be the judge of your choices and self, not of others and you might end up in a much better position than the outsiders that do not have the courage to judge or face their own fears nor can risk and believe anything else other than their small minds.

Joe: So be the judge of your choices and self, not of others and you might end up in a much better position than the outsiders that do not have the courage to judge or face their own fears nor can risk and believe anything else other than their small minds.

This is a Ponzi…Massachusetts agrees with that statement. Joe and his ilk are taking money from “suckers” and will profit because the last suckers haven’t lost their money yet.

Isn’t this ripe for clawbacks anyway? Doesn’t the government go after people’s ill-gotten gains if this is “proven” to be a Ponzi? I know Zeek-fools who are panicked as they spent all their “profits/booty”…and now somehow have to see the Ferrari to pay back…that’s a “bitch” as it were.

If I had to guess I’d say they’re probably building a case against the scheme or working out how to best nab Xu (who’s in the US) with all the Hong Kong money laundering going on (no doubt funds are routed all over the place).

the examples given in poperpoint show package director which is 32 x 100 usd = 3200 , which 1600 can wdraw and another 1600 in the b -wallet. How about small package 399, ehich member can get only 4usd , so 200 can wdraw and 200 more in b -wallet, so member need to add more 200 in order to sustain the bonus.

Here, not many people can afford to join with capital 1999 usd! this is crazy! anda people always misslook this

Yeah I nuked the article, read it back and the “recorded” translation made more sense than the “shot” one. I didn’t pick it up because both verbs fit the sentence (dude was recorded promoting WCM777 vs. dude was shot promoting WCM777).

Only article I had to nuke last year due to translation issues (seeing as him getting “shot” was the whole article itself). Apologies for any inconvenience (and thanks to Kasey for picking it up).

“Grabar” is an odd verb in Spanish. It literally means “engrave”, but in the 20th century it picked up the meaning “record (verb)”, and since you can record both video and audio, it can also be translated as “photo’ed”, “recorded”, “taped”, etc.

They do have a TV station… “The Way TV” and “Manna TV” in Southern California.

The Way TV insulted Muslims worldwide last year by helping “Sam Bassille” produce “The Innocense of Muslims” I have a photo of Ming Xu standing next to Joseph Nasralla, head of “The Way TV” tweeted by Ming Xu himself.

My mom is stupid enough to burn $8000 us dollars into this shit. I’m so pissed off. I’ve warned her that there’s NO FREE MONEY awhile ago. Oh well, didn’t listen and she told me after a more than a month after she thrown out the money.

Is there anyway to reveal this scam to the public and crush it down? I know it’s impossible to have any money back, but I just don’t know how to destroy my mom’s dream.

Those articles should be more updated than I am, I haven’t focused on WCM777 in the last few months. A quick look at some of the headlines should give you a brief overview.

PatrickPretty.com may have some other details, because of slightly different focus. You can try to google:wcm777 site:patrickpretty.com

We will normally reveal scams to the public, but we’re analysing the companies as “business models” rather than as “scams” = more neutral viewpoint, focused on certain factual parts. We will also cover legitimate companies in a similar way.

Now that Better Living Global is “delaying” their payouts for over 3 months (the end is surely near), NEXT UP…WCM/Kingdom 777. Same phony business, same ponzi scheme, lots of the same people defrauding others in this scam.

Wake up people…these are obvious frauds and though some people have made BIG money…they may have to pay it ALL back (clawbacks…Government MAKES you pay it back)…and you could be liable for fines, legal fees, and even JAIL.

Even if you “didn’t start it”…you are still responsible for people losing a lot of money and the handcuffs you’ll have around your wrists are just as cold as the ones Phil will feel someday.

My mom is just dump, and still planing to repurchase because she hasn’t been able to cash out any amount but 100 days over. She doesn’t listen to me…….we all know it’s not delayed. there’s no actual funding running the “company”.