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Re: Colts inform Luck he'll be No. 1 pick

Of course Garcon has upside. That's a term used for a young guy reaching his potential. That doesn't mean he is better than Reggie.

Cam Newton has upside but Drew Brees doesn't. Is Newton better than Brees or Rogers now? No because Brees and Rogers have realized their upside or potential and can still outperform Newton.

Upside is not the same as better.

Actually, Cam Newton may be better than both of them....... But I get the example..... I think Reggie is about done except as a control receiver good for seven to nine yards per catch..... He has lost a step or more....

Re: Colts inform Luck he'll be No. 1 pick

Did you notice that Garcon` signed a contract that indicates he is a top ten talent in the NFL. Tamme may be an all star in Denver.... Those injuries are part of the reason the Colts were so bad last year. They won't be any better this year and probably not nearly as good with a rookie at the helm.... Two or less wins, you heard it hear. I would not be surprised to see them go 0-16 hard as that is to do......

Congrats on discussing only TWO of the players I mentioned. Face it- you are wrong. Pathetically backtracking only makes you look more stupid.

Re: Colts inform Luck he'll be No. 1 pick

Congrats on discussing only TWO of the players I mentioned. Face it- you are wrong. Pathetically backtracking only makes you look more stupid.

I'm not backtracking on anything. The Colts will be completely inept and could easily to 0-16. Bill Polian said today that the Colts that Luck is joining are no where near as good as the Colts that Peyton Manning joined. You smell all of the roses you want. The Colts are in for a long, long period of losing that will last at least five years and if Luck turns out to be only adequate perhaps twice that....

Re: Colts inform Luck he'll be No. 1 pick

It's kinda hard to have an opinion of a new GM, let alone a new GM and head coach, and project 5 years out without seeing what the draft and FA's brings to the field over the course of a couple of seasons anyway.

Especially true when IMHO they are at least saying the right things and if they follow thru with actions then they will be doing a lot of the things that were gotten wrong during the Manning era.

Say what you want about the successes, but IMHO the Colts organization far from optimized on the opportunities they had the potential for during the Manning era.

Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

------

"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

With such complete turnover, Olblu it is going to be impossible to tell where we will be in 5 years; this season, depending on the draft, we could do as badly as 1-15 or as well as 7-9 +- 1 or 2. Beyond that, injuries and transactions will affect the Colts to the point that any bold and specific predictions will be nothing more than smokescreens compared to the actual season.

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"What you do is so loud, I can't hear what you say" -Andrew Luck
"If you turn the other cheek, I'm gonna hit you in the other cheek, too" -Charles Barkley
"Ego is edging greatness out" -Rick Pitino

Sophomore at the University of Louisville
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Re: Colts inform Luck he'll be No. 1 pick

I disagree on the fact that a rebuild would take 5 years. This isn't the NBA or Major League Baseball, where if you build from the ground up, it takes time. The NFL is much faster. Teams can rebuild in 1-3 years now. Look at the Carolina Panthers. 2001, they're 1-15 and losers of their final 15 games. By 2003, they're in the Super Bowl.

Re: Colts inform Luck he'll be No. 1 pick

Cincinatti Bengals
2008 4-11 (no, not a mistake, they also had a tie during this season, actual record was 4-11-1)
2009 10-6 Division Champion

Kansas City
2009 4-12
2010 10-6 Division Champion

These are just a few recent examples I found of 1-3 year turnarounds by looking for just a minute or two. Are there examples of teams that are always terrible? Sure there are. But acting like it's not possible to rebuild a team in less than 5 years is yet another ridiculous stance proven wrong by reality.

Re: Colts inform Luck he'll be No. 1 pick

I am a Colts fan and I have been since before they moved to Indy. Wayne wasn't even close to Garcon` last year. I don't know if that is because QBs couldn't see to their left or what. I am pessimistic about the Colts for the next five years or so and longer than that if Luck doesn't stay healthy or turn out to be a star. I would put that at 50/50 or less. I do not appreciate bad management decisions. Why doesn't New England ever have to tear it all down and start over.... They are like that damn rabbit, they just keep winning and winning........ and I hate them........

But that's what the Colts are trying to do. They are trying to be like New England and build a solid organization from the top down that doesn't completely live and die by one player (though obviously our future success will still largely hinge on Luck).

I have a lot of respect for how Belichick and the Patriots have built their organization. 5 Super Bowls in 11 years speaks for itself. But there's no doubt they got a bit lucky in 2008. Who knew that Cassell would be that good? If Brady had gone down this year, would they have won 11 games with Brian Hoyer? I doubt it. They would have been better than our 2-14 team, but I bet they would have still been under .500.

None of us know how this is going to turnout. But I'm certainly going to be patient as I appreciate what they are trying to do. I'm so glad that the Polians are out the door and that we will now have a coach who has a pulse on the sidelines like most other NFL coaches.

I think you are making way too much of the players we cut. Addai, Brackett, Bullitt and Clark haven't even been signed by anyone. That tells you what the rest of the league thinks about them. Sure they were all valuable contributors at some point in their Colts career, but they don't have much left in the tank at this point.

It's a downright shame how the Manning era ended here and we will always feel like a bit more should have been accomplished during his tenure here. The end of the Manning era is probably the most bizarre and unfortunate thing we will ever witness as sports fans. Regardless, we have still been *incredibly* blessed as fans since the team arrived here in 1984. Most of the success is because of Manning obviously, but for the third time in 23 years we have the opportunity to draft a hyped QB with the number 1 pick in the draft. That is just incredible. The first of those was a bust in George, the second was one of the greatest ever in Manning, and it's obviously yet to be seen what Luck will accomplish. But we are so lucky that we have the opportunity to see another potential phenom develop. Think of all the franchises that would kill to be in our position right now.

For years, we heard that our franchise would be dead once Manning left and that we had small odds to replace our Montana in Manning with a Steve Young. But here we are. All of the people who were hoping the Colts would disintegrate once Manning left now have to deal with the fact that the Colts have another phenom QB on their hands. I think that's pretty funny.

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Re: Colts inform Luck he'll be No. 1 pick

I don't know why you guys are going after him so hard. Peyton in his first year went 3-13. Do you really expect Luck to step in and do much better?

The Colts are completely rebuilding their roster on both sides of the ball. They don't have an OLine worth anything, to make it worse Donald Brown cant even pick up a blitzer when it's pointed out to him. The defense is getting completely made over with players like Mathis learning new positions.

While you guys might not be arguing that the Colts are going to be good, you really shouldn't be arguing against someone saying they're going to be bad as well.

I fully expect the Colts to struggle this year. If they win more than 4-5 games, it should be considered a successful season.

Is that going to be Luck's fault? No, not at all. Management picked this direction, but we should atleast be able to acknowledge that they are rebuilding, and that they are going to have a bumpy season this year.

Re: Colts inform Luck he'll be No. 1 pick

I don't know why you guys are going after him so hard. Peyton in his first year went 3-13. Do you really expect Luck to step in and do much better?

The Colts are completely rebuilding their roster on both sides of the ball. They don't have an OLine worth anything, to make it worse Donald Brown cant even pick up a blitzer when it's pointed out to him. The defense is getting completely made over with players like Mathis learning new positions.

While you guys might not be arguing that the Colts are going to be good, you really shouldn't be arguing against someone saying they're going to be bad as well.

I fully expect the Colts to struggle this year. If they win more than 4-5 games, it should be considered a successful season.

Is that going to be Luck's fault? No, not at all. Management picked this direction, but we should atleast be able to acknowledge that they are rebuilding, and that they are going to have a bumpy season this year.

Well I totally agree that the Colts could go 3-13 next year but my issue is that Olblu thinks the Colts will be bad for 5 years.

I am sorry they will not be bad for 5 years and I would agrue with anybody who says our O-line will be worse than 2011.

The line is bigger and meaner than it has been in a long time so I see our running game be a point of strength for this team next year. Luck aside the defense should also be a slight improvement from last year but I agree that there will probably be a learning curve for the guys.

The homer in me thinks they can go 8-8 but I can't rule out they could easily go 3-13 the first year. Olblu thinks they will go 0-16 which to me is just silly.

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Re: Colts inform Luck he'll be No. 1 pick

It's hard to predict the Colts will be bad for 5 years when the front office and coaching have been revamped with a new team vision, and IMHO in moves that were much needed, and we have no idea how the regime will do since we have no track record to base it on.

Next year shouldn't be great because we're installing a new system, new players, new mindsets... etc... etc... But the question will be whether there's light at the end of the tunnel. ...And it will be interesting to see just what can be done with next season by the new regime and if they can eek out something better than expected.

But even if they don't, it's the first season of a rebuild and a bad record gets them another high draft pick.

If they whiff on a couple of drafts and FA pickups and Irsay seems resolute in keeping people in place then we can start talking about 5 year holes. But it's hard to predict 5 year holes when it's a CAT that you can turn around NFL teams fairly quickly and this particular group has given you zero sample size to base a prediction that the front office and coaching staff will be pitiful for years... or that Irsay will now be a meddling owner that won't let his football people do their jobs and will screw things up.

Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

------

"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

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Re: Colts inform Luck he'll be No. 1 pick

I'm just saying that invalidating his position that Garcon outplayed Reggie doesn't invalidate his opinion that the rebuild is going to take 5 years, or whatever.

In the discussion about Peyton, the term "facts" was thrown around pretty loosely, and it seems like that's the direction here.

Yeah, you can refute his opinion on how players played with facts, and cats, but you can't refute the entire thread, which is how Kid responded, and which was the sentiment that I was commenting towards.

It seems like you'd rather argue with OlBlu over his reputation than really the overall point that he was making.

Re: Colts inform Luck he'll be No. 1 pick

I'm just saying as someone that has been on that side of the group, that "facts" often get mislabeled by those who want to win the argument.

I was told routinely that I was ignoring "facts" when I wasn't believing opinion. I was also told that my opinion wasn't medically based, when I was merely reciting the opinion of a doctor who's speciality was spinal injuries. (I'm not trying to ***** about it, it's water under the bridge, just saying I can relate.)

When you're on the other side of the coin, you're a little more sympathetic to the process.

And I would hope that he would argue his opinion with some level of certainity. If he didn't have any belief in his opinion, then I would hope that he wouldn't take the time to argue it.