Well Square has done the smart thing. It appears that they are packaging the security token with the game. At least in the Collectors Edition, not sure about the standard. Take notice Blizzard, this is a damn good idea.

Well Square has done the smart thing. It appears that they are packaging the security token with the game. At least in the Collectors Edition, not sure about the standard. Take notice Blizzard, this is a damn good idea.

It does not include the token with the regular edition. I'm starting to lean towards getting the CE myself...the included token and early play time could push me over plus it's not outrageous in the pricing compared to some (looking at you Blizzard with your $99 SC2 CE).

A game mechanic that drops the amount of experience points earned after a set amount of play time has Final Fantasy XIV fans in an uproar. Game director Nobuaki Komoto explains the eight hour a week limit.

Game director Nobuaki Komoto explains:

Quote

"First off, the main concept behind FFXIV is allowing those players with little time on their hands to play effectively, and game balance is based off of that. Furthermore, it is being designed to not give those with more time on their hands to play an unfair advantage. Because of that, systems such as Guardian's Favor (a bonus to Guildleves) have been implemented to make leveling in the short-term easier than leveling in the long-term."

Quote

I can understand how players could be outraged over such a system. It effectively limits one class to an hour and change per day of full experience in any given week. That seems awfully low, and won't sit well with players hoping to focus on a single class.

what the <bleep>ing <bleep>? that's the <bleep>ing dumbest <bleep>ing thing to <bleep>ing come out of a <bleep>ing developers <bleep>ing <bleep> mouth.

As dumb as this is, wiping a players account after they unsubscribe is even dumber to me. There is literally no incentive for me to come back to an MMO if I know all my progress will be wiped out and I have to start back at square one.

Logged

" And they are a strong and frightening force, impervious to, and immunized against, the feeble lance of mere reason." Isaac Asimov

what the <bleep>ing <bleep>? that's the <bleep>ing dumbest <bleep>ing thing to <bleep>ing come out of a <bleep>ing developers <bleep>ing <bleep> mouth.

As dumb as this is, wiping a players account after they unsubscribe is even dumber to me. There is literally no incentive for me to come back to an MMO if I know all my progress will be wiped out and I have to start back at square one.

I totally forgot about that one.

Logged

Because I can,also because I don't care what you want.XBL: OriginalCeeKayWii U: CeeKay

what the <bleep>ing <bleep>? that's the <bleep>ing dumbest <bleep>ing thing to <bleep>ing come out of a <bleep>ing developers <bleep>ing <bleep> mouth.

As dumb as this is, wiping a players account after they unsubscribe is even dumber to me. There is literally no incentive for me to come back to an MMO if I know all my progress will be wiped out and I have to start back at square one.

I totally forgot about that one.

Very good point. FFXI is the ONLY MMO OUT THERE that'll outright delete your characters after being unsubscribed for a month or three.

And actually, there's a bit more in the article about the EXP limits:

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Here's how the whole thing works. Once you begin training in a class, you have eight hours in which you can earn full experience. Once those eight hours is up, the amount of experience you earn will lower over the course of seven hours. At the end of those seven hours you will no longer be earning experience.

Final Fantasy XIV's job system allows players to switch classes on the fly, however, so if you begin to approach the threshold on one class, you can switch to another class and play that instead. The system is on a weekly timer, so seven days from the time you begin training your skills, you'll be able to start again with full experience.

So in short you can use each class for a total of 15 hours per week and gain experience for it. That, while not as limiting as before (FFXIV has how many classes?), is still really retarded IMHO.

Logged

"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."

Damn this sound fairly stupid on Squares part. Its like building a Ferrari and then putting a limiter on it so you can only drive 55 mph. Why would you want to buy such a thing?

No kidding. I really wish they wouldn't have included these MMOs in their numbering system and went with a Crystal Chronicles type naming system instead. I own every single main final fantasy game except 11 and I will not own 14 either. It puts a ding in the collection.

Logged

" And they are a strong and frightening force, impervious to, and immunized against, the feeble lance of mere reason." Isaac Asimov

Eastern MMOs (Lineage, Aion, etc) are grindy MMOs and the populace is happy with that. FFXIV doesn't support grinding, because it'll outright turn off your EXP once you've hit a cap.

Western MMOs (WoW, EQ2, CoX) are much more 'casual' MMOs - you go out, run a quest or two, and it feels like you've actually done something even though you've only played for 30 minutes. Based on what I'm reading, FFXIV doesn't support that either (FFXI most definitely didn't).

What Squenix is doing with FFXIV is if SoE released the original Everquest before all of its quality of life improvements (loss of all items upon death and corpse recovery, deleveling, extreme difficulty, etc) right now. They're completely ignoring the 800 pound gorilla that has completely and totally changed how Western players (if not the entire world) look at MMOs.

It makes absolutely no sense and it will fail because of it despite the Squenix name behind it.

Logged

"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."

What Squenix is doing with FFXIV is if SoE released the original Everquest before all of its quality of life improvements (loss of all items upon death and corpse recovery, deleveling, extreme difficulty, etc) right now.

Has it been confirmed to be this bad? Other than the level cap thing (which I assume can be gotten around by switching professions) what else has been confirmed that is really bad? Is it hard to level? Is there CR and deleveling? Or are these just assumptions based on FFXI?

Dear Square Enix. By now, we all realize that an Open Beta is a marketing gimmick, and a stress test, nothing more. The fact that your game is this completely lacking in player usability this close to your release date is distressing. Menus and area loads are slow to respond, your mouse cursor appears to be software-based which is insane, your chat system is limited in a way I haven't seen in years, and your character animations look like they were designed by the functionally retarded. Who in the hell waves like that, anyway? When you have someone (me) who is a huge fan of Final Fantasy, and a long time MMO gamer and reviewer, and within 20 minutes of playing (and I use this word very loosely) your game, I'm disgusted, thinking that this shouldn't be released for months. I'm very glad at this point that I wasn't in the closed beta, as it would have turned me off of this game even more than I am right now.

Personally, I hope this is patched every day from now until the 21st or so. I really do. Because right now? I wouldn't pay for this game. Yes, the cutscenes are pretty. Waiting 10-20 seconds to load each scene? Not so much. Having to press a button to attack each time, without really having a way of telling when to do it? Horrific.

Words honestly cannot describe how immensely disappointed I am at this moment.

Dear Square Enix. By now, we all realize that an Open Beta is a marketing gimmick, and a stress test, nothing more. The fact that your game is this completely lacking in player usability this close to your release date is distressing. Menus and area loads are slow to respond, your mouse cursor appears to be software-based which is insane, your chat system is limited in a way I haven't seen in years, and your character animations look like they were designed by the functionally retarded. Who in the hell waves like that, anyway? When you have someone (me) who is a huge fan of Final Fantasy, and a long time MMO gamer and reviewer, and within 20 minutes of playing (and I use this word very loosely) your game, I'm disgusted, thinking that this shouldn't be released for months. I'm very glad at this point that I wasn't in the closed beta, as it would have turned me off of this game even more than I am right now.

Personally, I hope this is patched every day from now until the 21st or so. I really do. Because right now? I wouldn't pay for this game. Yes, the cutscenes are pretty. Waiting 10-20 seconds to load each scene? Not so much. Having to press a button to attack each time, without really having a way of telling when to do it? Horrific.

Words honestly cannot describe how immensely disappointed I am at this moment.

QFT

I would like to add that I quit twice at the first beginning instance because I had no idea what to do. Turns out you just need to double click yda laying there on the ground but it would never register those double clicks I tried (and tried and tried). Third time worked and I got to fight the first time. I quit again right after. I know many hate WoW but modern WoW puts function over form and it works right. It's usable and it's UI is functional and quick. And it was that way six years ago in beta. Squeenix really dropped the ball on this one which sucks because it's an interesting and very good looking game. There will be case studies after this bomb to explain why console and PC MMOs can not be designed by the same team at the same time.

This is the blog I wrote on the FF14 player's site, which you have to log into to read.

The Consolization of Final Fantasy 14

I've been a MMO player for a number of years, and I'm a freelance game reviewer also. I realize that FFXI's UI/controls were designed to be similar to the PS2. I also realize that at the time, MMOs were in their infancy.

This is no longer the case. MMOs are flourishing, drawing in millions of players from children to grandparents, celebrities to average types. It's not going away.

This is why the decision by Square Enix to model the controls and UI apparently in a style that would be easily portable to the PS3 version of FF14 even more mind-boggling and distressing. Yes, the FFXI players will flock to it, I'm sure. The thing is, FFXI's population ... isn't that large. Not only that, FF14 is coming out within a month or two of the MMO-Killer, World of Warcraft: Cataclysm. This isn't a knock against the game, mind, it's simple reality.

Anything that this game does to keep players from getting hooked is going to make it much easier for those millions of players to jump right back into WoW on day one of Cataclysm (not that much could stop them). Honestly? My opinion is that the UI and chat system (at a minimum) are going to make that even easier. There's a rule that applies very well here: KISS. Keep it simple, stupid. Square Enix hasn't.

By having a UI/control system that is limited to menus, they've made the system more complex than it needs to be. By having a chat system what is highly limited in how much text you can send as well as the commands, it looks bad in relation to not only current games, but games which have been out for a number of years.

Yes. I know this is beta. I realize that. However, the UI, control structure, and your chat client are not things that you want to have change radically in open beta, or within the last three weeks before retail. These are things which should be set in stone within the first few months of beta, if not earlier. I believe that Square Enix has done this on purpose to keep FF14 PC very close (if not exactly like) FF14 on the PS3 in every way. I also feel that this is a huge mistake, which is going to hurt this game in the long run.

As someone told me, it's like Square Enix is in a hole. They recognize that they're in a hole. They want out of the hole. The problem is, they have absolutely no idea on how to climb out. It may be against their philosophy, and I don't expect it will happen, but they need to have the menus and control structure for the PC version of this game to be built FOR PCs. No locking of the arrow keys, number keys, control/alt, enter or escape. No clicking on menus for everything in the game. Let me type 'b' or 'i' for my inventory and equipment. Let me type 'j' or 'l' for my quest journal, and make it require fewer clicks, not more. Let me control my map when it's open with my mouse, not with keys which aren't detailed anywhere other than possibly a manual on a forum that (it seems) the vast majority of open beta players cannot read. Don't force me to use a /controller/ on a PC. I have one already. It's called a mouse and keyboard. They work perfectly fine in every other game.

I want this game to succeed. It's very pretty. I like how the cutscenes have my character in them. I like the music and the world. I know there's a fun game buried within all of the PS3 crap. The problem is that if I (someone who is used to giving everything a fair shot as a matter of course while being critical) am ready to rage-quit your game within 20 minutes, and it is entirely due to the UI and chat? You have a problem. If it goes live in this state, many reviewers are going to crucify it, and rightfully so.

This is the blog I wrote on the FF14 player's site, which you have to log into to read.

The Consolization of Final Fantasy 14

I've been a MMO player for a number of years, and I'm a freelance game reviewer also. I realize that FFXI's UI/controls were designed to be similar to the PS2. I also realize that at the time, MMOs were in their infancy.

This is no longer the case. MMOs are flourishing, drawing in millions of players from children to grandparents, celebrities to average types. It's not going away.

This is why the decision by Square Enix to model the controls and UI apparently in a style that would be easily portable to the PS3 version of FF14 even more mind-boggling and distressing. Yes, the FFXI players will flock to it, I'm sure. The thing is, FFXI's population ... isn't that large. Not only that, FF14 is coming out within a month or two of the MMO-Killer, World of Warcraft: Cataclysm. This isn't a knock against the game, mind, it's simple reality.

Anything that this game does to keep players from getting hooked is going to make it much easier for those millions of players to jump right back into WoW on day one of Cataclysm (not that much could stop them). Honestly? My opinion is that the UI and chat system (at a minimum) are going to make that even easier. There's a rule that applies very well here: KISS. Keep it simple, stupid. Square Enix hasn't.

By having a UI/control system that is limited to menus, they've made the system more complex than it needs to be. By having a chat system what is highly limited in how much text you can send as well as the commands, it looks bad in relation to not only current games, but games which have been out for a number of years.

Yes. I know this is beta. I realize that. However, the UI, control structure, and your chat client are not things that you want to have change radically in open beta, or within the last three weeks before retail. These are things which should be set in stone within the first few months of beta, if not earlier. I believe that Square Enix has done this on purpose to keep FF14 PC very close (if not exactly like) FF14 on the PS3 in every way. I also feel that this is a huge mistake, which is going to hurt this game in the long run.

As someone told me, it's like Square Enix is in a hole. They recognize that they're in a hole. They want out of the hole. The problem is, they have absolutely no idea on how to climb out. It may be against their philosophy, and I don't expect it will happen, but they need to have the menus and control structure for the PC version of this game to be built FOR PCs. No locking of the arrow keys, number keys, control/alt, enter or escape. No clicking on menus for everything in the game. Let me type 'b' or 'i' for my inventory and equipment. Let me type 'j' or 'l' for my quest journal, and make it require fewer clicks, not more. Let me control my map when it's open with my mouse, not with keys which aren't detailed anywhere other than possibly a manual on a forum that (it seems) the vast majority of open beta players cannot read. Don't force me to use a /controller/ on a PC. I have one already. It's called a mouse and keyboard. They work perfectly fine in every other game.

I want this game to succeed. It's very pretty. I like how the cutscenes have my character in them. I like the music and the world. I know there's a fun game buried within all of the PS3 crap. The problem is that if I (someone who is used to giving everything a fair shot as a matter of course while being critical) am ready to rage-quit your game within 20 minutes, and it is entirely due to the UI and chat? You have a problem. If it goes live in this state, many reviewers are going to crucify it, and rightfully so.

I'm begging you, Square Enix. Fix this. Please.

Amen. If the UI and chat system were fixed it'd be a pretty awesome game.

I could care less about the Fatigue system, Max. The UI/Chat system is what breaks it for me.

That's fine. I'm still going to explain about how the fatigue system isn't what was originally reported.

I didn't really try out the chat system, but the UI is made much more bearable with a controller in your hand. And yes, I know you don't want to use a controller, but that doesn't change that it's better with a controller.

As for the software / hardware mouse cursor - while I think it's completely retarded that they haven't enabled it, someone on the FF XIV forums wrote a little patch that enables the hardware mouse cursor. I don't have a link to it, but a quick search should find it. It works.

I look forward to hearing what you have to say about the fatigue system. I also wish the UI was better, my main issue with the UI is how horribly laggy it is, even with a controller. Despite the UI tho, I'm falling for the game. I really dig the setting / graphics / music. Having a blast with it really.

Of course it's better with a controler. That's because they designed it for the PS3. Wait a sec...I'm on a PC! It's going to get seriously ripped (and already is in the beta forums) if they don't at least give us the OPTION of having standard keyboard/mouse UI.

Quote from: MaxSteele on September 06, 2010, 10:45:00 PM

Quote from: Zarkon on September 06, 2010, 09:26:00 PM

I could care less about the Fatigue system, Max. The UI/Chat system is what breaks it for me.

That's fine. I'm still going to explain about how the fatigue system isn't what was originally reported.

I didn't really try out the chat system, but the UI is made much more bearable with a controller in your hand. And yes, I know you don't want to use a controller, but that doesn't change that it's better with a controller.

As for the software / hardware mouse cursor - while I think it's completely retarded that they haven't enabled it, someone on the FF XIV forums wrote a little patch that enables the hardware mouse cursor. I don't have a link to it, but a quick search should find it. It works.

Of course it's better with a controler. That's because they designed it for the PS3. Wait a sec...I'm on a PC! It's going to get seriously ripped (and already is in the beta forums) if they don't at least give us the OPTION of having standard keyboard/mouse UI.

I'm playing it just fine with keyboard and mouse. Not sure what the issue is. Well, my only issue was mouse lag, but I fixed that by finding a patch someone made to enable hardware cursor. What issues are you having?

I'm still confused. Is the core gameplay awesome but the UI is annoying? I can get over annoying UI and it can also be fixed relatively easily. I think you can also plug in a Xbox controller to a PC if need be. I'm more interested in gameplay impressions.

It's not that the game cannot be played with a mouse/keyboard. It's that the game was designed for a controller, and the keyboard/mouse interface is lacking compared to other PC MMOs or other PC games in general.

Examples:

In many games, you open your inventory with a single keypress. You open your quest log with a simple keypress. In FF14, you have to click on the menu button, then click on inventory or Journal. In most games, the map fills the screen, and you can move around or scroll in and out (if needed) with your mouse, et al. Not in FF14. You have to use IJKL (which isn't documented anywhere in the game itself, although apparently is in the manual). In many games, you can use /r to reply to a tell sent to you, and you're not limited for chat length (or if you are, it's like 256 characters or longer). FF14? You have to click on the chat window then chose Control-R. And you're limited to what appears to be 80 characters or less. In most MMOs, you can map the keyboard as you wish. FF14? A number of keys are locked: 0-9, Control, Alt, Enter, Escape and the arrow keys. I'm left handed, my hand fits perfectly on the arrow keys, and I'm used to it. FF14 lets you use the numeric keyboard and WASD, however, when you're used to the up arrow being directly above the down arrow, and press '5' instead of 8, it puts you in 1st person mode instead of moving you forward. It's annoying at a minimum.

The gameplay itself, at least early on, is nice. I like how the game looks, I like the gameplay. However, the horribly clunky UI and chat system makes me want to rage-quit. All they need to do is allow PC games the OPTION to set up their keyboard / mouse the way they want. If people want to use a controller, that's fine. However, making it the BEST option and telling players "Just use a controller" is a mistake, and one they're replicating from FF11. It was more excusable when FF11 came out, MMOs were relatively new. Today? Not so much.

Zark, yeah I see what you mean. To save you one extra step, you can hit Home on the keyboard to bring up that menu. Then you only have to click Inventory, Journal, or whatever. Saves you at least one click. I can see what you mean, but in the couple of hours I played yesterday, I had already adapted to the quirks and was chugging along just fine. If you like the game, I wouldn't think it should stop you from playing it.

One other odd thing I noticed is it will limit you on what keys are available to map. For instance, I want to change the default mapping of Active/Passive from F to `. It won't let me use `. Again, though, I've already adapted to it and while I would like to change it, if I really want to play this game, I just have to be flexible. Should I have to? I guess not. I will, though.

Sounds pretty much like the controls for FFXI, which in essence turned your keyboard into a dual analog stick controller. I remember having to keep my right hand on the arrow keys and my left hand on WASD.