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May 2008

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17,306

Originally Posted by fezziwig

I agree, the Steelers take such a long time to develope a player or waiting for a guy to come of age, the cycle never ends and we never have a group/unit that is firing on all cylinders at the same time. When they have got the guy where they want him is contract is usally due by now and not only have they paid this guy to learn, they now owe him big bucks if they want to keep him. Believe it or not, they're usually not worth the money after a season or two if the team is that lucky.

Does this sound like anyone we know ?

Interesting comment was made yesterday. I can't remember which commentator or which game but he said that you have to have a system in place and scout to fit the system to be successful and sustain that in the NFL today. That means you can get players to contribute early and increase your success rate.

I wouldn't consider drafting players that have to go through a 2-year conversion process as meeting that criteria.

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The "Steelers Way" isn't the problem. The Steelers didn't miss the playoffs because they are stuck in some Olde School mentality. Drafting 100 rookies & playing them 'just because' won't turn them into SB contenders next season.

What tends to get forgotten, or overlooked in the argument around playing rookies in a 'sink or swim' type environment is that for the teams throwing these rookies in, there's generally an opening for them due to having a weaker player there the previous year.

in other words- rookies start on crap teams because the crap teams already have crap players.

Now, there are exceptions to every rule. Yes, the Patriots make use of several rookies through a season. But the Patriots also have a lot of stability that gets overlooked too.

What we are seeing at the moment for the Steelers is 'rapid change' in the roster. The FO had previously decided to squeeze the orange dry on guys like Farrior, Ward, Smith, Hampton, Keisel, Starks, Polamalu, Clark, Miller, Harrison, Taylor, Hoke.. and fair enough- they pushed for an extra SB win instead of revamping. But that comes with a cost. Last season we lost Ward, Farrior, Smith & Hoke in 1 hit. That's 3 significant starters & 1 significant back-up that were replaced in 1 hit. We'll see more this year- probably Hampton, Starks & possibly Harrison or Foote. Then in a year's time probably Clark, or Polamalu, Taylor..

In other words- over the course of 3-4 years, this team will be revamped. That a young guy drafted last year isn't starting immediately does not mean the Steelers way isn't working. It's just a different way than some teams of achieving the same result. History tells us it isn't a bad way of doing it.

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Originally Posted by Chadman

The "Steelers Way" isn't the problem. The Steelers didn't miss the playoffs because they are stuck in some Olde School mentality. Drafting 100 rookies & playing them 'just because' won't turn them into SB contenders next season.

What tends to get forgotten, or overlooked in the argument around playing rookies in a 'sink or swim' type environment is that for the teams throwing these rookies in, there's generally an opening for them due to having a weaker player there the previous year.

in other words- rookies start on crap teams because the crap teams already have crap players.

Now, there are exceptions to every rule. Yes, the Patriots make use of several rookies through a season. But the Patriots also have a lot of stability that gets overlooked too.

What we are seeing at the moment for the Steelers is 'rapid change' in the roster. The FO had previously decided to squeeze the orange dry on guys like Farrior, Ward, Smith, Hampton, Keisel, Starks, Polamalu, Clark, Miller, Harrison, Taylor, Hoke.. and fair enough- they pushed for an extra SB win instead of revamping. But that comes with a cost. Last season we lost Ward, Farrior, Smith & Hoke in 1 hit. That's 3 significant starters & 1 significant back-up that were replaced in 1 hit. We'll see more this year- probably Hampton, Starks & possibly Harrison or Foote. Then in a year's time probably Clark, or Polamalu, Taylor..

In other words- over the course of 3-4 years, this team will be revamped. That a young guy drafted last year isn't starting immediately does not mean the Steelers way isn't working. It's just a different way than some teams of achieving the same result. History tells us it isn't a bad way of doing it.

"Squeezing the orange dry" rarely works which is why you have to get youth in game experience so they are ready to step in.

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To me or for me the most important unit to have on your team and to have them gel is the o-line. It seems to take this group the most time to gel. With a good o-line it helps everyone on the offense. Veterans are being protected, rookies/older players have these guys to give them possibly a split second more and so on. The qb is obviously key to having success but why throw a young qb in there to be abused by a line that can't protect him. What good are great runners, receivers if the o-line can't open holes, give the qb time to throw ?

The front office failed along time ago by allowing this o-line to be the red headed step child. They seldom drafted high or did much to help the o-line unit. When Neil (he blew) the Super Bowl O'Dumbass was the qb we had a unit second to none. Kordell came in, guys got old, guys left from the o-line and nothing was done about it. I used to say back in Kordells playing days, " I hope they address this o-line because, Kordells being swift of foot is hiding these guys inadequacies. "
At least they did the free agency thing back then with Duvall Love, Tom Newberry, Hartings at the time.
These Steelers have flopped so badly at the o-line and here is were our offensive troubles truly stem from.

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Well, you are correct about the cohesiveness along the OL. It is the most important part to having a successful OL. With that said, all of the injuries up front over the past 2 years hasn't helped.

As I've said many times over and over, I don't think the main issue is who we have on the team right now playing on the OL. I still think that a lot of the problems are fixable. I never liked Kugler as an OL coach. And I never liked the offensive philosophy that BA incorporated with the 2 TE 1 back sets. I prefer a real FB in there. Just think if we had my ECU boy Vonte Leach as our FB.... I thought Haley had a good game plan for this offense and it was starting to click right up until the KC game. They were controlling the clock big time and BB was about the most efficient QB on 3rd downs. Our RB's were all having good games rushing, etc., then it all unravelled in the KC game when Ben went down. Not to mention, we really need to find a #1 RB for this team and stick with primarily 1 back. This RB by committee doesn't work in the long run. Drafting a RB or picking up one via FA is a must this year.

Back to the OL- Some of the blocking schemes I see coming from the OL are baffling at times. I can't think of specific plays at this very moment but I do remember watching games thinking wtf are they doing. Lack of cohesion (poor communication) along with poor coaching can be blamed for a lot of that. I think we're gonna see a big difference with a 2nd year Haley as OC, and a new OL coach, some better training in the weight room, and an OL that can play together for a season. We've got the guys to put it all together. They are a young group. If we can cut Colon and maybe sign a FA for some depth, I'm looking forward to 2013 Steelers training camp to watch the OL come together. And yea, I'm totally all for Tunch taking over the OL job as long as he'll take it.

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Originally Posted by papillon

Yea, that's what I was thinking, these guys (defensive ends) haven't had to defend this type of offense in their NFL careers, but now there's an entire year's worth of tape on these guys. I certainly think that the defenses will tkae a look at the tape without having to prepare a game plan and find tendencies, tells from the linemen, backs and even QBs and be able to defend this offense in the upcoming year a lot more effectively. The Steelers defended it well this year against the Skins.

It's just a matter of time, the more the NFL changes the more it stays the same. Kaepernick, RGIII, Wilson (to a degree) they will all have to be able to beat you form the pocket before their careers are over and I hope for their sake that their careers don't end before they really get started.

Pappy

I am right there with you on this one Pap! Good stuff. Look at what happened to Cam Newton year 2. Teams get tape on a player and they make adjustments. The great ones are those who can re-adjust and counter it. But most of these read option QB's have been so trained to run and be runners that adjusting as a pocket passer is not second nature.

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Originally Posted by Oviedo

"Squeezing the orange dry" rarely works which is why you have to get youth in game experience so they are ready to step in.

As soon as young players step on the field and don't perform well then fans label those players as busts. Fans will state there must be another player that's better or another player should be given a shot ect ect. The next man up is always a better option in fan's minds. The problem is that fans don't have a clue of the mistakes that young players make in practice. Mistakes in practice more then likely transition over onto the field. It's something to be said for coaches that have patience with players that show potential. All that being said, the coaches do give young players opportunities to play. Just because they don't start doesn't mean they don't get opportunities to play.

People often believe that learning the defense is the only obstacle for young defensive players. Young defensive players must also learn the complex offenses around the league. Complex offenses that show multiple formations and personnel packages. Very few defensive players that come into the league can start and be productive players right away.

At the end of the day the Steelers are going to continue to do what they do because it's worked for many years. There is no need to change their philosophy because of a few bumps in the road.

If the team can clean up the turnovers and Ben can win games at the end then the team will be fine next season.

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Well, you are correct about the cohesiveness along the OL. It is the most important part to having a successful OL. With that said, all of the injuries up front over the past 2 years hasn't helped.

As I've said many times over and over, I don't think the main issue is who we have on the team right now playing on the OL. I still think that a lot of the problems are fixable. I never liked Kugler as an OL coach. And I never liked the offensive philosophy that BA incorporated with the 2 TE 1 back sets. I prefer a real FB in there. Just think if we had my ECU boy Vonte Leach as our FB.... I thought Haley had a good game plan for this offense and it was starting to click right up until the KC game. They were controlling the clock big time and BB was about the most efficient QB on 3rd downs. Our RB's were all having good games rushing, etc., then it all unravelled in the KC game when Ben went down. Not to mention, we really need to find a #1 RB for this team and stick with primarily 1 back. This RB by committee doesn't work in the long run. Drafting a RB or picking up one via FA is a must this year.

Back to the OL- Some of the blocking schemes I see coming from the OL are baffling at times. I can't think of specific plays at this very moment but I do remember watching games thinking wtf are they doing. Lack of cohesion (poor communication) along with poor coaching can be blamed for a lot of that. I think we're gonna see a big difference with a 2nd year Haley as OC, and a new OL coach, some better training in the weight room, and an OL that can play together for a season. We've got the guys to put it all together. They are a young group. If we can cut Colon and maybe sign a FA for some depth, I'm looking forward to 2013 Steelers training camp to watch the OL come together. And yea, I'm totally all for Tunch taking over the OL job as long as he'll take it.

Nice comments pf73 and your sig tells it all. We do need a runningback that the Steelers will dedicate their focus upon with having him be the lead guy like Bettis once was. I don't see it in Mendenhall even though the guy has talent I don't think he has the motor, heart, desire or whatever it requires to be dominate. We've all complained about this coach or that coach but I believe we have a coach on the team that needs mentioned in the mix of, what have you don for me latley or at all for that matter and I'm speaking of Kirby.
I see no positives from our runningback core and instead of these guys improving they seem to be doing worse. If Kirby was an o-line, special teams or OC coach on this team you could bet he would be getting a weekly ear beating from the fans.
Wow, I don't care for him as the runningback coach and I'n not going to care for him as a OC if that day ever comes. Maybe he'll prove me wrong but right now, he isn't doing his job. Who was the runningback coach for the Steelers for so many years, anyone remember his name ?