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Re: Survivor bees vs regular stock adn mite counts

I like some of the post about survivor bees. My bees are JUST BEES they live OR DIE on there own I treat them just like they were treated when i got them WITH NOTHING . If i have a hive that makes it through winter and is slow to build up the next summer then the following year i may requeen with a queen raised from 1 of my better producing hives or they swarm and requeen themselves. Idont keep bees to harvest huge amounts of honey I keep bees for relaxation and enjoyment the honey i harvest and sale and the cut outs that i do and charge for goes right back into the bees for equipment for more swarms and cut outs SURE it is work but it is also very relaxing and a joy to work bees and see the fruits of there labor

Re: Survivor bees vs regular stock adn mite counts

True, though you took them on as yours, not Mother Natures. I see no difference between honeybees and other livestock. As a beekeeper, any bees I have in my boxes I feel obligation to tend to, care for, do my best to see they survive and thrive. Not that I am always successful.

You mentioned enjoying seeing the fruits of their labor which you also mentioned benfiting from. Just seems like maybe a one way street.

I'm sure these comments of mine may seem judgemental. I don't mean for them to appear so. I do not look down on you your way of doin things. I don't know you well enough to critisize you as a person or as a beekeeper. As far as I know you are a good beekeeper. PLease don't take me the wrong way. I tend to ask questions. And I am sure there is more that you and I do in similar fashion than not.

Re: Survivor bees vs regular stock adn mite counts

I understand where you are coming from and i hate to type so a lot of my posts may not come to the screen as i meant them to be . All i mean is let the bees bee bees. Yes i feed sugar water to weak hives and feed them honey that i have harvested from other hives. But i do not use ANY CHEMICALS AT ALL .dont spray the lawn for weeds or use bug dust in the garden unless the green beans need a shot early in the year.

Re: Survivor bees vs regular stock adn mite counts

"Since survivor bees are supposed to be better at cleaning themselves of mites, would it make sense that a mite count for them would be higher than for non-survivor bees?" Could you reference a study or two on this? I would feel better about it if you would , or some other Beek would post those studies. If convinced I will post haste look to get survivor bees. But, to buttress your statement/question, I do have BWeaver bees and HoneyBeeGenitics bees, all treatment free. Does that count as survivor bees?

This whole topic is very important to me as I want healthy bees that are as treatment free as makes good sense. I would feel better about bees that swarm away from me if they had been adapted to treatment free life.

Re: Survivor bees vs regular stock adn mite counts

Originally Posted by Roland

...And I don't, which is why I asked for a drone brood report. I do not care how many mites are dying, I care how many mites are being born.
SO naturally you will have mites? Or are natural mites better? Crazy Roland

Hi Roland
In order to fulfill your request and get truthful data, we need to count at least 100 drones (statistics, you know...). I am reluctant to do so... My philosophy is that bees do have mites, parasites... my cat has flees... it is not nice but as long as it is not a pandemic, most animals could "co-exist" with "visitors"... some, better than others (we called them "survivors"). Mite's counting in most cases are non-scientific and I just do not believe in this. As I explained above, I use sticky board as an indicator for tendency - is count stable? When you do counts regularly it gives you an idea what is going on in the hive. My methods are different from commercial beekeeping - I could afford to observe my bees closely. Sergey

Re: Survivor bees vs regular stock adn mite counts

Originally Posted by Keth Comollo

Agreed. But anybody can keep bees from any source alive for a summer without treatments. If they make it through the winter then you can call them survivors.

But being alive in the spring means nothing to me. The colony has to be strong enough to be productive. Non-productive colonies might just as well be dead...there's no management costs involved in their up-keep.

Re: Survivor bees vs regular stock adn mite counts

I understand what your point is Michael, but surely "survivor" it has to mean more than "production" as well. I don't think Roland would consider his bees to be worthless simply because they shut down production due to the heat and lack of rain. We get into real subjective territory when we try to define "survivor" it appears.

Re: Survivor bees vs regular stock adn mite counts

Originally Posted by Keth Comollo

But anybody can keep bees from any source alive for a summer without treatments. If they make it through the winter then you can call them survivors.

I see what you're saying. I would say that's generally implied, but I don't have access to everyone's practices. In my case, it's not just an experiment. I have kept all my bees this way for nine years. I've never gone into winter with this many before, and nearly triple what I overwintered last year. With the sheer volume of increase, there is the opportunity to lose a few more, but my long term plan is to have a sustainable population that stays around 20, so I can absorb a loss of eight before contingencies are exhausted.

Originally Posted by Michael Palmer

But being alive in the spring means nothing to me. ... Non-productive colonies might just as well be dead.

To you, yes. In my case, a number of my productive colonies are descended from non productive colonies, or colonies that were non-productive for a couple years or so. As the process marches along, the pressures of surviving with the addition of selective breeding lead to more productive colonies. You have had your bees for decades, breeding and refining, relying on them as your employment. Most of the rest of us have not yet had that time to do the same. I'm getting there though. Barring my untimely death, I have time.

Re: Survivor bees vs regular stock adn mite counts

I think there is part of the issue that is hard to define. Constantly making splits to nucs, breaking brood cycles etc. can supress the mite population quite a bit.

I would love to see a really strong full sized production colony with its huge broodnest (mite factory) make it three years. My strongest colonies this year are showing suprisingly few mites compared to last year at this time but, since they have big broodnests, I don't expect that to last sadly.

I respect anybody trying to raise bees without any treatments and it can only accelerate the evolution of the bees to one day deal with mites and the viruses they carry. I have been granted permission to use some land that is very remote and have toyed with the idea of putting a few hives there and running it strictly treatment free as a fun experiment. Just have to catch up on woodenware for next year.

Re: Survivor bees vs regular stock adn mite counts

This article and others is a roadmap for me, but!, I have three hives and am a pure hobby beekeeper. I am a reader, this forum, books and articles about bees among other things. Steve Taber is my favorite author on bees, one of my hives is filled with HoneyBeeGenetics bees, his old business. I can afford to fool around with this issue whereas folk making a living at it must follow a different drummer.http://scientificbeekeeping.com/choo...fighting-bees/

Re: Survivor bees vs regular stock adn mite counts

It is hard to get a simple answer to a complicated situation. So many different situations, locations, environment that contribute to the end result of your hives and their health and vigor. Most of the time we are focused one one issue and don't see the big picture (and the other factors) that someone else does.
Like some said more mites on the board means more dead or groomed mites not on the bees. But at what ratio? We always want a hard number.
I have noticed that my italians literally wipe their feet at the entrance. I see them cleaning each other often too.
Chemical treatments for me would be a total last resort only after all other remedies were attempted. I would rather save the bees more than my hippie principles.