dafman: Love them or hate them, you can’t deny Apple’s place in the world as past innovators of major world tech trends. After all, they created the MP3 player, touchscreen phone and the tablet phenomenon. And their kit was always beautifully designed. I still marvel at my (now retired) little square nano ipod.

But since Steve Jobs shuffled off, have Apple now well and truly lost their mojo? They haven’t released any new ground breaking tech since the ipad. In fact, they are now pretty much followers – take their last two releases - iPad Pro followed Surface Pro, Apple watch followed Android wear.

And with the exception of force touch, their phones are pretty much under-spec’d relative to other flagships competition (resolution, battery, waterproofing, expandable storage etc).

I see a few Apple watches on peoples wrists, but not many.

iTunes is looking tired.

I don't hear many raving over Apple music.

And their beautiful design ethos is now starting to well and truly show cracks, with some really woeful offerings of recent – the following youtube sums this up nicely: https://youtu.be/yOwlR74rC5Q

Yes, as one of the world’s biggest companies, Apple still have mountains of cash and plenty of punters still prepared to pay over the odds for an iphone, but are Apple’s glory days now well and truly behind them?

I think they have.

Its hard to create new tech, its been done. When SJ left, I felt that helped as regards finally getting features added, it largely has feature parity now but back in the day it was missing a lot. What I see, is disenchantment. There are regular threads on Macrumors that are about dropping quality. Bugs and issues are one thing but these days its becoming a tradition, and these non minor bugs and issues that to me show a lack of testing. Rushed out is a phrase I read often. The board demanded innovation, but in reality its all about the money. The money used to be secondary to design, that has changed. The share price has plummuted 20% and thats big in the stockmarket.

I had never seen them as under specced as the custom SoC meant that they didn't need octa cores of high CPU speed etc, but my 6 Plus aint the most responsive phone on town, although the 6 was fine. Thats under specced and rushed out. Bring out the phablet quick please, we will finish it in the S year.

But the faithful rule. I am on a Yahoo forum, and thats been vibrant lately as some of us put forward our less than stellar thoughts and the fanboys react. So sales will be good no matter what, but they need to be better than good, and I can see them levelling.

Along as I don't have to listen to "they wont do it first but it will be better" and "Apple knows what you want, you don't" I'm happy enough. Its losing its aura but its a good ecosystem.

This sounds like back the days after they pushed Jobs out of Apple. The bean counters took over and the company coasted until it was in trouble....and they brought Jobs back and he not noly saved Apple, he took it to where it had never been before.

But Jobs died...and the bean counters will be back in control....and they will run the company into the ground.....through poor quality (to save money) and poor negotiating skills (bean counters aren't very good business people) and a lack of willingness to invest in the stuff that will keep them on top.

This isn't speculation. It's what happens to ANY company that loses its visionary motivating driver(s). IBM went the same route after the Watson's lost control. Microsoft after Bill Gates. ...and so on and so on.

____________________________________________________I'm on a high fibre diet.

dafman: Love them or hate them, you can’t deny Apple’s place in the world as past innovators of major world tech trends. After all, they created the MP3 player, touchscreen phone and the tablet phenomenon. And their kit was always beautifully designed. I still marvel at my (now retired) little square nano ipod.

But since Steve Jobs shuffled off, have Apple now well and truly lost their mojo? They haven’t released any new ground breaking tech since the ipad. In fact, they are now pretty much followers – take their last two releases - iPad Pro followed Surface Pro, Apple watch followed Android wear.

And with the exception of force touch, their phones are pretty much under-spec’d relative to other flagships competition (resolution, battery, waterproofing, expandable storage etc).

I see a few Apple watches on peoples wrists, but not many.

iTunes is looking tired.

I don't hear many raving over Apple music.

And their beautiful design ethos is now starting to well and truly show cracks, with some really woeful offerings of recent – the following youtube sums this up nicely: https://youtu.be/yOwlR74rC5Q

Yes, as one of the world’s biggest companies, Apple still have mountains of cash and plenty of punters still prepared to pay over the odds for an iphone, but are Apple’s glory days now well and truly behind them?

I think they have.

Its hard to create new tech, its been done. When SJ left, I felt that helped as regards finally getting features added, it largely has feature parity now but back in the day it was missing a lot. What I see, is disenchantment. There are regular threads on Macrumors that are about dropping quality. Bugs and issues are one thing but these days its becoming a tradition, and these non minor bugs and issues that to me show a lack of testing. Rushed out is a phrase I read often. The board demanded innovation, but in reality its all about the money. The money used to be secondary to design, that has changed. The share price has plummuted 20% and thats big in the stockmarket.

I had never seen them as under specced as the custom SoC meant that they didn't need octa cores of high CPU speed etc, but my 6 Plus aint the most responsive phone on town, although the 6 was fine. Thats under specced and rushed out. Bring out the phablet quick please, we will finish it in the S year.

But the faithful rule. I am on a Yahoo forum, and thats been vibrant lately as some of us put forward our less than stellar thoughts and the fanboys react. So sales will be good no matter what, but they need to be better than good, and I can see them levelling.

Along as I don't have to listen to "they wont do it first but it will be better" and "Apple knows what you want, you don't" I'm happy enough. Its losing its aura but its a good ecosystem.

This sounds like back the days after they pushed Jobs out of Apple. The bean counters took over and the company coasted until it was in trouble....and they brought Jobs back and he not noly saved Apple, he took it to where it had never been before. But Jobs died...and the bean counters will be back in control....and they will run the company into the ground.....through poor quality (to save money) and poor negotiating skills (bean counters aren't very good business people) and a lack of willingness to invest in the stuff that will keep them on top.This isn't speculation. It's what happens to ANY company that loses its visionary motivating driver(s). IBM went the same route after the Watson's lost control. Microsoft after Bill Gates. ...and so on and so on.

Your assertion that Accountants is somewhat sweeping and not accurate. Apple is still doing well under Mr Cook, one of the few western IT Corporations returning increased sales and profits

MikeRetired IT Manager. The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

The "Apple was so much better before" crowd just have no memory of what it was like before. Like the horrible PowerPC Macs that were built (and impossible to get into) in the "in between Jobs years"? Or the first iPhone that didn't have cut and paste, 3G or apps? (But still, IMHO, kicked the behind of anything else that was available when they launched).

And "they used to innovate"? Really?! You might say the Apple II was new, but it wasn't something they created from scratch. Neither was OS-X, nor the iPhone or the iPad. They took components that were around and put them together.

I am not that interested in how "innovative" they are. More about the whole experience with the hardware and software. I am a "fanboi" in that I use a range of their products and don't use a Linux or Windows machine as my main working device. These days I have Linux in a lot of boxes around me, including servers, and Windows available via virtual machines in "the cloud".

A completely dead Apple would not have created the Apple Watch, nor would they have launched the iPad Pro with the features they did. Copying is easy, just look at Samsung ;) Being first has never been Apples thing, they come in and do their take on a product range like the iPad - which by no stretch of the imagination was a revolutionary product in that it wasn't the first tablet available. It just was the first that actually got a mass market.

Don't get fooled with the "they have to be first, or they have lost their edge". Thats just someone with no sense of the history of what Apple has done...

Linuxluver: But Jobs died...and the bean counters will be back in control....

When is that happening? Did it happen after the Beats acquisition? Will it happen after the big secret project (rumoured to be a car) they are putting thousands of people on?

poor negotiating skills

That would be strange, given that one of Cooks strengths are negotiation and was the one that was hired to fix Apples supply chain and that created the way Apple do business today with contract manufacturers and a strict control of Apples inventory.

lack of willingness to invest in the stuff that will keep them on top.

See above. I see no evidence that is happening at Apple.

Microsoft after Bill Gates. ...and so on and so on.

I think Microsoft has been the case of bad management under Mr. Monkey Balmer. But today Microsoft is starting to look like a very innovative company.

Their issue is the close to unusable iTunes...I actually used to like using it on a Mac (not on a Windows machine) but now it's painful.Apple music is a let down at this stage, really I would prefer for it to be removed entirely from iTunes to help simplify everything, but I know that won't happen.

Apart from that, my iPad Mini is flippin' brilliant and means I have no plan to ever own a full size tablet again.

I do think that they have sort of lost their way a little bit recently. The iPad Pro feels like a solution looking for a problem and the Watch just feels like it's not ready for primetime. Having said that, I do like my Apple Watch.

The Mac and the iPhone though - I think they have a solid line up there and will continue their successes.

It is a deeply flawed product that is tantamount to useless. SJ would have sent it right back to the drawing board. Sales figures for it are purported to be - by Apple standards at least - pretty poor.

The iPP was a waste of time really - could have been really good but isn't. MS Surface Pro is a better device IMO, at least for me. I actually sold my Macbook Pro to get one.

I love my iMac and my iPhone 6 + and in 12 months or so, I will probably sell the iMac and buy another (hope there is a bigger screen than 27"...!) as I have found it a very good machine for editing. A second Apple Display in Retina would be nice.

Dunnersfella: Their issue is the close to unusable iTunes...I actually used to like using it on a Mac (not on a Windows machine) but now it's painful.Apple music is a let down at this stage, really I would prefer for it to be removed entirely from iTunes to help simplify everything, but I know that won't happen.

Apart from that, my iPad Mini is flippin' brilliant and means I have no plan to ever own a full size tablet again.

I have always disliked iTunes. Many things about it make no sense - it was a lot of iterations before it became simple to even play an album from start to finish!

I have to say I love Apple Music. My personality is such that it is rare for me to find an album I can listen to over and over, and I can't be bothered spending time making playlists. Also being almost 50 I do not need music to be present for every second of every day, which Apple seem to think is some kind of normal, but that is by the by.

AM lets me have whatever I want to listen to - so I have filled up on albums I used to have as a teenager etc but lost long ago because they were on tape etc and that kind of thing. Also, 'For You' has thrown up some great playlists.

Geektastic: I felt that the watch would never have got past SJ as final arbiter.

It is a deeply flawed product that is tantamount to useless. SJ would have sent it right back to the drawing board. Sales figures for it are purported to be - by Apple standards at least - pretty poor.

Its a version 1 of an Apple product. If you compare it to the first iPhone that was pretty basic as well. As a wearer of various "smart watches" I must say it fulfills my needs/wants at the moment. My gripe with it is that its not stable enough in being connected to the iPhone.

My main use for it is to be able to glanse on the watch now and then and see if there is anything that needs my attention, and it works great for that. As well as for tracking my activity/training.

I fully expect to see the watch mature as version 2, 3 etc. comes out. And I think the sales figures will get even better as the product matures. Having been "late to the game" its pretty amazing that they are outselling everyone (combined) else in the market.