Neither Arkham City or The Dark Knight Returns allude to it in that way. They both have Batman say he should have killed the Joker because every time he lets him live he just kills some more people.

If anything TDK showed what you're saying more than any comic book has, because Batman blames himself for the Joker killings, and even says he inspired madness and death when he should have been inspiring good.

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"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!"

But Batman does state that the guilt is on him. But why only Joker's murders?

Because Batman created him. The Joker is his monster.

Therefore he feels partial guilt at all the deaths that have happened.

TDK did do that to an extent. But I feel it deeper with the comics scenario.

__________________“The world is a dangerous place not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing”Albert EinsteinWinner of the SHH Best Writer Award
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I don't know what their plan is, but here's what I hope happens if a reboot is on the table.

Joker HAS to fall in the chemicals. Batman has to have a hand in it.

Because the one complaint I have with Nolan's Joker is that he was not Batman's monster. Sure, there is the argument that Heath's Joker was inspired.

But it wasn't the same as the comics. It wasn't as effective.

Joker is Batman's responsibility. Shocking, but true.

For every kill Joker makes, Batman knows the blood is on his hands. Joker is showing him in the most harshest way he can, that he is his child. Batman planted the seed, and the chemicals gave birth.

Joker is Batman's creation. His monster. His child.

That makes the relationship all the more deeper when Joker points this out. And Batman feels that guilt.

There is no solid evidence whatsoever that the Joker fell into a vat of chemicals let alone that Batman dropped him in one. That origin is one of the many origins the Joker has in the comics but we don't know if it's true. The Joker's true origin is a complete mystery so we can't say for sure that Batman is directly responsible for creating the Joker in that sense.

Batman did however attract the Joker into Gotham City or at least inspired him to become the man we know him today that wants to share his insanity with the world. He exists and does what he does because he is attracted to Batman (not in the way you think lol) and finds him fun to be around. That's why the Joker appears in Gotham shortly after Bruce becomes Batman and why Bruce feels responsible for the Joker's debut in the first place.

Why hasn't Batman ever said what had happened? He knows the story the Joker tells everyone about the chemicals. So why hasn't he denied it if it's not true?

That's how in Death Of The Family he knew it was Harley under the red hood, because she was relaying the same version of the story Joker told her about his origin. That Batman was responsible on that night he fell. But the truth is, Joker fell accidently or because he tried to escape.

Bruce has never denied nor confirmed the event however.

__________________“The world is a dangerous place not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing”Albert EinsteinWinner of the SHH Best Writer Award
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Why hasn't Batman ever said what had happened? He knows the story the Joker tells everyone about the chemicals. So why hasn't he denied it if it's not true?

That's how in Death Of The Family he knew it was Harley under the red hood, because she was relaying the same version of the story Joker told her about his origin. That Batman was responsible on that night he fell. But the truth is, Joker fell accidently or because he tried to escape.

Bruce has never denied nor confirmed the event however.

The story about the chemicals is just one of the many stories the Joker tells. He tells a different story each time so Batman has no reason to believe any of them at this point because he's heard a lot of them. Harley was told that same version. It's very much like the different scar stories in TDK.

__________________“The world is a dangerous place not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing”Albert EinsteinWinner of the SHH Best Writer Award
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Permawhite Joker as close to Mark Hamill's as you can get. Also, I'd love to see him take on Batman in the World's Finest movie along with Superman VS Luthor, THAT would put asses in seats even more than Avengers if you ask me, and then I'd have the Joker and Luthor from World's Finest show up as recurring menaces in their respective series.

There is no solid evidence whatsoever that the Joker fell into a vat of chemicals let alone that Batman dropped him in one. That origin is one of the many origins the Joker has in the comics but we don't know if it's true. The Joker's true origin is a complete mystery so we can't say for sure that Batman is directly responsible for creating the Joker in that sense.

Batman did however attract the Joker into Gotham City or at least inspired him to become the man we know him today that wants to share his insanity with the world. He exists and does what he does because he is attracted to Batman (not in the way you think lol) and finds him fun to be around. That's why the Joker appears in Gotham shortly after Bruce becomes Batman and why Bruce feels responsible for the Joker's debut in the first place.

TDK nailed all of that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shikamaru

The story about the chemicals is just one of the many stories the Joker tells. He tells a different story each time so Batman has no reason to believe any of them at this point because he's heard a lot of them. Harley was told that same version. It's very much like the different scar stories in TDK.

This is a common mistake: the chemical bath is common to all (canon) tellings of The Joker's origins- the disputable/ambiguous phase occurs prior to that. The Joker often refers to the 'accident itself'.

This is best illustrated by DC's splash page on The Joker's origin:

The chemical bath is a fixture. It has been since the first telling of the Joker's origin-

It features in everyone's favorite origin as told by Alan Moore-

Even when an "alternative" origin was attempted in Batman Confidential, the green gunk still turned up-

In the recent "Death of the Family" run, The Joker chose Ace Chemicals as the scene of his big return, as that was "where it all started"-

So, it is clear that the chemical bath is 'what happens' to The Joker.

__________________“The world is a dangerous place not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing”Albert EinsteinWinner of the SHH Best Writer Award
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I kind of want Joker's suit to look like this. Something stylish and cleaner than Heath's, but going back to thlong tailcoat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodrigo90

My top choices for Joker are Matt Smith

I agree with you on both of these. I see a great deal of Mr J in Smith's performance as Doctor Who; he plays the character as a kind of benevolent maniac. For The Joker, he just needs to drop the benevolence!

I haven't really seen enough of his acting to know about his range, but the way that he uses his voice and his movement to convey an alien who looks like a human is impressive. I sense some real potential there.

As for the Joker's dress; I think clean lines and crushed velvet would be the way to go next time. Ledger's Joker gave us a version of Bermejo's filthy vagrant, with a bit of a steam-punk vibe, but it is possible to develop the aesthetic in a different direction. I think the key aspects of The Joker's character that inform his dress are that he has cut loose any moral or conventional bounds, and that he is a narcissistic popinjay. He wears whatever he wants, and whatever he finds amusing. He seems himself as the clown prince. Between those influences, it is very plausible for him to display garish luxury, like a rap artist with more taste and a liking for vintage. So a beautifully cut, fuschia three-piece suit; polished cuban heels; a walking cane etc is very apt. It also seems likely that he 'perfects' his chemical-ravaged looks, by dying his hair a deeper green and painting his lips a more vibrant red.

This stuff is, of course, inherently camp, but so is the character. So, indeed, are a lot of real-life psychos: think how much attention the Yakuza or the 1920s mob paid to their appearance.

The way to achieve a great Joker who is different to Heath's is, in my opinion, to play up the other half of the character: murderous, joyous, elegant evil.

Edit: And definitely a vintage shtick- I would love to see him use a personalised Tommy gun with a painted on the drum.

I always thought Joker's suit reflected something to do with entertainment. But it has to do with royal prestige. ..in the most absurd fashion

But that's his ways. Everything he does or says is a statement to the joke that he thinks life is.

Matt would be great. He has this unusual look and frame. Almost freakishly assexual. Which is Joker too.

And his performance as the Doctor shows the manic potential he has for a role like Joker.

__________________“The world is a dangerous place not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing”Albert EinsteinWinner of the SHH Best Writer Award
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i said before that mark hammil should play the joker and they should make him look like the joker via facial motion and body motion capture cgi. you guys said i was crazy because it would look fake. now arnold schwarzeneger is going to play a young terminator in the next terminator movie via cgi motion capture.

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Well let's send them a message. That this..... THIS IS OUR LAND!!!!!!!!!!!

He kind of resembles Cesar Romero in the first picture. Obviously, he would play the character way different than Romero, but I think we could get a performance on par with Ledger's if Bardem played Joker