State Secretary Kerry calls Snowden a "coward," asks him to "face the music" in US.

In his first interview with a major US network news organization since leaking a treasure trove of documents related to the US national security apparatus, former US intelligence contractor and whistleblower Edward Snowden told NBC “Nightly News” anchor Brian Williams that he has been misrepresented by the mainstream media outlets and aimed to set the record straight.

In early 2013, Snowden disclosed thousands of top-secret US government documents to filmmaker Laura Poitras and journalist Glenn Greenwald. The documents revealed that the US government has established phone and Internet dragnets to sweep up data en masse, sparking a global debate about government surveillance ever since.

Further Reading

When NSA leaker was asked if he views himself as a "patriot," he said: "I do."

During the filming of the hour-long special "Inside the Mind of Edward Snowden" in the Kepinski Hotel in Moscow last week, which aired on Wednesday night at 10pm ET, the two spoke at length about a wide range of topics that included a discussion of Snowden’s technical training and work as an undercover “spy,” his reasons for continuing to reside in Russia under a temporary asylum agreement, and what he describes as the US government's exploitation of the national trauma in the wake of the 9/11 attacks.

“We were worried about a number of things... [like] competitive concerns. And we didn’t know how much the Russians knew about the reasons for our travel,” Williams explains of the back-story of the interview. What's more, Williams describes how he nearly missed a connecting flight in London, how his luggage did not arrive until moments before Snowden appeared at the hotel room, and how NBC attempted to conceal their identities and motivations for visiting the country from Russian authorities.

Williams also told the Times that the "blindingly smart" and "enigmatic" Snowden received no remuneration for the interview other than "half a chicken sandwich from the room service cart."

"Man up" and "face the music"

During the interview, Snowden discussed his motivations for releasing the documents to journalists, explaining, "The intelligence capabilities themselves are unregulated, uncontrolled, and dangerous. People at NSA can actually watch internet communications and see our thoughts form as we type. What's more shocking is the dirtiness of the targeting. It's the lack of respect for the public and for the intrusiveness of surveillance."

Snowden also recalled his reaction to the 9/11 attacks and his belief in the importance of combatting terrorism. "I've never told anybody this, but I was on Fort Meade on September 11. I was right outside the NSA, so I remember the tension of that day... I take the threat of terrorism seriously. I think it's disingenuous for the government to exploit the national trauma that we've all suffered to justify programs that have never been shown to keep us safe but cause us to give up liberties our Constitution does not let us give up."

The whistleblower also took the opportunity to comment on how the mainstream media’s depiction of him as a low-level “systems administrator” and President Barack Obama’s own description of him as a "hacker” are “somewhat misleading.”

Instead, the 30-year-old Snowden characterized himself as a “technical expert” who has served as a “spy” for the US Defense Intelligence Agency, the National Security Agency, and the Central Intelligence Agency, living and working undercover, overseas, “pretending to work in a job that I'm not — and even being assigned a name that was not mine."

What I do is I put systems to work for the United States. And I’ve done that at all levels, from — from the bottom on the ground all the way to the top. Now, the government might deny these things; they might frame it in certain ways and say, 'Oh, well, you know, he's a low-level analyst.’ But what they’re trying to do is they’re trying to use one position that I’ve had in a career here or there to distract from the totality of my experience.

Snowden also addressed critics of what he characterized as his non-decision to continue to live in Russia, under a temporary asylum agreement. “The reality is I never intended to end up in Russia,” he explained. “I had a flight booked to Cuba onwards to Latin America and I was stopped because the United States government decided to revoke my passport and trap me in Moscow Airport. So when people ask why are you in Russia, I say 'please ask the State Department.'"

Responding to a question regarding his relationship with the Russian government, Snowden told Williams, "I have no relationship with the Russian government. I have taken no money from the Russian government... The best way to avoid doing that is by destroying the information I had before coming to Russia. I took no documents to Russia, so I could give them nothing."

Responding to Snowden’s comments on his reasons for staying in Russia (which was aired as an excerpt on NBC TODAY on Wednesday morning), Secretary of State John Kerry fired back: "For a supposedly smart guy, that's a pretty dumb answer, frankly... Edward Snowden is a coward,” Kerry told Chuck Todd on MSNBC. “He is a traitor. And he has betrayed his country… and [should] face the music.” Kerry continued to challenge Snowden to "man up and come back to the United States."

What's more, Kerry made the case that Snowden’s leaks of classified documents revealing the extent of NSA spying programs has given valuable information to terrorists and has thrown a wrench in US counter-terrorism efforts. “If this man is a patriot, he should stay in the United States and make his case,” Kerry said. “Patriots don't go to Russia, they don't seek asylum in Cuba, they don't seek asylum in Venezuela, they fight their cause here.”

230 Reader Comments

I'll support Snowden returning to the US for trial when Obama and Bush are willing to report to the Hague for their own trials. Snowden has done more for the American people than either of those presidents, both of whom had the ability to enforce the Fourth Amendment, and chose to expand the surveillance state instead.

Keep it classy, John, keep it classy. Sure, you heroically live in the rarefied world of power almost entirely without accountability, while Mr. Snowden gave up a very cushy job telecommuting in Hawaii to endure the (significant, for pissing off the US clandestine services as badly as he did, an actual trial and a very long time in jail is hardly the worst that could happen) risks of blowing the whistle on overtly unconstitutional behavior; but it's good to see that you retain the moral clarity to recognize cowardice when you see it...

Was a decent interview. I am curious as to the next story that Greenwald is publishing, as it's claimed to be the biggest yet.

I was interested in hearing Snowden describe his actual role at various agencies, and how he wasn't just some schlep contractor as portrayed by government officials. That, and he did try official channels in numerous ways.

I'll support Snowden returning to the US for trial when Obama and Bush are willing to report to the Hague for their own trials. Snowden has done more for the American people than either of those presidents, both of whom had the ability to enforce the Fourth Amendment, and chose to expand the surveillance state instead.

But, but, we made all the guilt go away when we tried and punished a few privates who were obviously behind the entire American rendition and torture apparatus! Pesky little people, always exceeding their authorization...

It's amazing that the politicians think that they're in any position to call a man a coward when he was, y'know, entirely right about the massive conspiracy they endorsed. I'd call him "well informed", or maybe "sensible".

It's amazing that the politicians think that they're in any position to call a man a coward when he was, y'know, entirely right about the massive conspiracy they endorsed. I'd call him "well informed", or maybe "sensible".

Yeah, I'm not sure how they can manage to call him a "traitor" for revealing that the NSA violates the rubber stamp FISC rulings thousands of times every year. If you can't manage to keep your agents on the incredibly long leash you give them, someone has to step forward.

Kerry's statements are reprehensible at best. I don't live in the US at the moment, so I have no idea what the general public think (probably not much, about Snowden anyway), but misdirection from the real issue is what we've come to expect from our officials.

If the whistle blowing is that saying that the government was breaking the law, how can Kerry claim that the government will give him a fair trial?

He is saying the equivalent of "the innocent don't run." That just plain isn't true. If an innocent man just saw a police officer beat someone, then the officer approached the innocent man to "ask a few questions," the innocent man would be well advised to run.

Just as "freedom fighter" and "rebel" depends on your point of view, so does "traitor" and "whistle blower." With Kerry's comments, it is very easy to see where he stands (with the NSA and warrentless surveillance of citizens).

If the whistle blowing is that saying that the government was breaking the law, how can Kerry claim that the government will give him a fair trial?

He is saying the equivalent of "the innocent don't run." That just plain isn't true.If an innocent man just saw a police officer beat someone, then the officer approached the innocent man to "ask a few questions," the innocent man would be well advised to run.

Just as "freedom fighter" and "rebel" depends on your point of view, so does "traitor" and "whistle blower." With Kerry's comments, it is very easy to see where he stands.

Indeed, and it becomes quite clear which one has betrayed his country.

At this point, if Obama or Kerry said that the sky were blue, I'd expect to look up and see it be red. There's no cowardice in avoiding a rigged game, and there's no patriotism in supporting a system that is systematically destroying the Constitution.

Snowden is as much of a traitor as George Washington or Benjamin Franklin ever were, and for that I thank him.

This is sadly so true. Hell we have journalists turning on fellow journalists saying that Greenwald and others should be tried as accomplices. We have mainstream press that reports on the abuses occasionally while parroting government officials how he should be tried as a traitor, or even killed as some former officials have stated. And to top it off a populace that is more interested in Kim and Kanye's wedding than anything that has to do with our rights being taken.

What pissed me off the most was the end, after the interview was over, Brian Williams turning to a studio panel to "decide" if he was a traitor or a patriot. A studio panel for fucks sake? With all the evidence he has presented on how our government is invading our lives and you need a studio panel to fucking decide for you?

That's the problem. No one wants to ask the hard questions and the politicians sure as hell don't want to deal with it as evidenced by the bills they have been working on complete with loopholes you can drive a train through. And the courts willfully allow it, all in the name of national security. How in the hell can anyone expect he will ever get a fair trial in a system that inept/corrupt.

What's really troubling is that John McCain and John Kerry (and many others) were indeed true heroes in their day, and yet now they have the stink of politics clouding their judgment. Public cynicism just keeps getting worse with each passing election cycle.

I'll support Snowden returning to the US for trial when Obama and Bush are willing to report to the Hague for their own trials. Snowden has done more for the American people than either of those presidents, both of whom had the ability to enforce the Fourth Amendment, and chose to expand the surveillance state instead.

I actually had to pause before upvoting you. The thought ran through my mind "they could be collecting information on who upvoted" and putting that together in a master list of people who they think don't carry a pro-US sentiment because they agreed with an anti-government comment. And normally I'd tell myself to take off the tinfoil hat because it sounds crazy but the reality is that it's not... which is even scarier.

I have NO doubt that History will judge Ed Snowden a true hero and patriot.

We can only hope that the eventual "Snowden Amendment" that dismantles the NSA's panopticon apparatus and enshrines prosecution-free whistleblowing and truth-telling in the Constitution is actually read by those who swear to support and defend it.

If you and I did the same thing the NSA did we would be labelled terrorists or criminals. But they can hack your digital life to protect you from the same in the name of "National Security". Strange how when Snowden was involved with the NSA Kerry didn't mind. Now since Snowden blabbed, Kerry got his panties in a knot.

Secretary of State John Kerry fired back: "For a supposedly smart guy, that's a pretty dumb answer, frankly... Edward Snowden is a coward,” Kerry told Chuck Todd on MSNBC. “He is a traitor. And he has betrayed his country… and [should] face the music.” Kerry continued to challenge Snowden to "man up and come back to the United States."

This is nonsense, but if we're supposed to think this way:

Man up, Kerry. You are a coward for sitting tight in your office and making your big speech to the press so they can all clap politely and then print it as if you were doing something. If you were not a coward, you would go to Russia and personally bring Snowden back. Not expect to browbeat him into returning, not beg and plead with the Russians to send him back, not deploy other people to do it for you. Get off your butt and do it yourself. Anything less would be cowardice.

Speaking of the interview, I call bullshit on Snowden's claim that any well-funded government can remotely turn on my iPhone. And I'm highly skeptical that they can remotely and thoroughly take it over. Thoughts?

There's been a recent surge of malware taking over iPhones and ransoming them back to users. Presumably, that doesn't even have a nation-state behind it. So, I think it's pretty clear that remote takeover is possible....

I'll support Snowden returning to the US for trial when Obama and Bush are willing to report to the Hague for their own trials. Snowden has done more for the American people than either of those presidents, both of whom had the ability to enforce the Fourth Amendment, and chose to expand the surveillance state instead.

And they should face a legitimate inquiry into the questionable suicide of UK weapons inspector David Kelly.

I'll support Snowden returning to the US for trial when Obama and Bush are willing to report to the Hague for their own trials. Snowden has done more for the American people than either of those presidents, both of whom had the ability to enforce the Fourth Amendment, and chose to expand the surveillance state instead.

I actually had to pause before upvoting you. The thought ran through my mind "they could be collecting information on who upvoted" and putting that together in a master list of people who they think don't carry a pro-US sentiment because they agreed with an anti-government comment. And normally I'd tell myself to take off the tinfoil hat because it sounds crazy but the reality is that it's not... which is even scarier.

Kerry is just trying to remain relevant since in one 10 minute speech the Pope made greater strides with the leaders of Israel and Palestine than he did in two years.

When it comes to the Palestinians, the Pope is a more trustworthy mediator than any representative of the United States.

Well, the pope represents god on earth and god listens and watches everyone in every situation. So how can you criticize Kerry and at the same time support a guy that believes in a much larger surveillance program than the NSA's ?I wonder.

I'll support Snowden returning to the US for trial when Obama and Bush are willing to report to the Hague for their own trials. Snowden has done more for the American people than either of those presidents, both of whom had the ability to enforce the Fourth Amendment, and chose to expand the surveillance state instead.

I actually had to pause before upvoting you. The thought ran through my mind "they could be collecting information on who upvoted" and putting that together in a master list of people who they think don't carry a pro-US sentiment because they agreed with an anti-government comment. And normally I'd tell myself to take off the tinfoil hat because it sounds crazy but the reality is that it's not... which is even scarier.

So what you imply is that listening is against freedom of speech. What freedom of speech is for then if the government can't listen ?

Votes are anonymous on Ars, the government "listening" requires that they use information the public doesn't have access to. To say nothing of the McCarthyesque implications of creating a list of people who dislike the US government's actions.

Speaking of the interview, I call bullshit on Snowden's claim that any well-funded government can remotely turn on my iPhone. And I'm highly skeptical that they can remotely and thoroughly take it over. Thoughts?

Baseband processor OS. It's a second operating system on every mobile phone. It has control over the application processor (which runs iOS, Android, etc.). It is always proprietary and closed-source.

It's safe to assume all baseband operating systems have flaws, including security vulnerabilities, accidental or otherwise. It's also prudent to assume (and probably a safe bet) that spy agencies know about many of these flaws and know how to gain root access to a targeted device. And since many (most?) phones seem to have some low-level components powered as long as the battery is attached (which is always for an iPhone and for many other models), it would not be surprising if the NSA and other spy agencies can remotely turn on and control any iPhone that they choose to target.