This chatbot appeals parking tickets and wins 60 percent of the time

Available in NYC and London for now; 160,000 tickets challenged so far.

Joshua Browder, a 19-year-old British student at Stanford University, has created a chatbot (DoNotPay.co.uk) that successfully challenged parking tickets in London and New York City.

The chat interface asks a few basic questions and then auto-generates a legal appeal for a parking ticket (it can also make a claim for compensation regarding delayed flights). Alternatively, a simple Web form is available for those who don’t want to interact with an AI.

"When I started the website, it was because I got a few parking tickets myself," Joshua Browder told Ars by phone. "Local governments aren’t issuing these tickets when people are doing something wrong—they’re doing it to raise revenue."

Browder claims that 160,000 parking tickets have been challenged so far, with a "low 60 percent" success rate.

"I think it just shows how they’re being overzealous in giving out the tickets," Browder added. "When you get a ticket, there’s a feeling of desperation and anger. I think that’s why the site’s been so successful. These tickets are so expensive—I don’t have any income and lots of people who have tickets in the UK don’t have income or are pensioners. The fact that they are such a large percentage of your weekly income—it’s such a disproportionate percentage of your income, it’s really unfair."

The New York City Department of Transportation did not immediately respond to Ars’ request for comment.

Browder has plans to roll out his parking ticket chatbot to Seattle next. Beyond that, his next project is a similar chatbot designed to help Arabic-speaking asylum seekers and refugees fill out applications to receive public benefits and other documents, auto-generating the forms in both English and Arabic.

Cyrus Farivar
Cyrus is a Senior Tech Policy Reporter at Ars Technica, and is also a radio producer and author. His latest book, Habeas Data, about the legal cases over the last 50 years that have had an outsized impact on surveillance and privacy law in America, is out now from Melville House. He is based in Oakland, California. Emailcyrus.farivar@arstechnica.com//Twitter@cfarivar

"Hello, I'm a robot lawyer. How can I help you to pursue justice today?"

"Yeah, my car was booted. I mean, clamped, you know, those things on the wheels. By a private parking enforcement company. I didn't even leave the shopping center; I just went to Staples and then Whole Foods. But they won't listen."

"Oh, you're pretty much up a creek, dude. You need a different kind of robot, the kind with the circular saws on its limbs. Hang on, I got a friend who used to do Battle Bots before the recession. Lemme see if I can find her number."

With how smart cars are becoming it would be interesting if they provided a preventive measure for parking tickets. If the car knows what street I'm on and had a database of paid parking locations and allowed parking times and where permits are required then you could be notified that your current location requires a fee or is currently illegal.

Well, uh, given that the student in question is British and attends university at Stanford, I don't know that he would qualify as one of those "New Yorkers." Rather, I think he may have meant that since it is successful at negotiating legal challenges through a gigantic bureaucracy in two of the largest cities in the world, it can probably do just fine elsewhere.

I got one parking ticket while in Milwaukee. I followed their guide and called their department to let them know my car was parked on a street and it'll be there for that night and the next night. I got ticketed the second night because apparently they expected me to call it in every day it was parked there.

Spoiler: show

They also called two months later threatening to issue a warrant since I didn't pay or show up for court. A quick look into their system they found I had paid the day I received the ticket after I told them I did.

With how smart cars are becoming it would be interesting if they provided a preventive measure for parking tickets. If the car knows what street I'm on and had a database of paid parking locations and allowed parking times and where permits are required then you could be notified that your current location requires a fee or is currently illegal.

If the car were really smart you could just tell it to drive around the block until you're ready to be picked up...

Well, uh, given that the student in question is British and attends university at Stanford, I don't know that he would qualify as one of those "New Yorkers."

Fair enough.

Quote:

Rather, I think he may have meant that since it is successful at negotiating legal challenges through a gigantic bureaucracy in two of the largest cities in the world, it can probably do just fine elsewhere.

In my experience, there's no correlation between size and fairness. Many big cities have proper procedures and oversight for appeals, and many small towns have obstructionist policies aimed at generating revenue.

And private enforcement companies are on a whole other level. Their appeals process typically consists of the local small claims court.

"Local governments aren’t issuing these tickets when people are doing something wrong—they’re doing it to raise revenue."

No. They're issuing tickets because cars are parked wrong.

And yes, this is a problem. In a city the size of London it's impossible to create parking spaces for everyone who wants them, so to guarantee *some* level of decent service you have to pay for parking. There are also serious and proven health and environment risks with car exhaust, which is another good reason to limit the number of cars in densely populated areas.

More direct effects are preventing the proper flow of traffic, including emergency services (this can be a serious problem since ambulances and fire trucks are usually pretty large).

The fact that you win an appeal doesn't mean you're right. Local governments have better things to do than to judge every appeal in depth, so they probably err on the side of caution...

"Local governments aren’t issuing these tickets when people are doing something wrong—they’re doing it to raise revenue."

No. They're issuing tickets because cars are parked wrong.

And yes, this is a problem. In a city the size of London it's impossible to create parking spaces for everyone who wants them, so to guarantee *some* level of decent service you have to pay for parking. There are also serious and proven health and environment risks with car exhaust, which is another good reason to limit the number of cars in densely populated areas.

More direct effects are preventing the proper flow of traffic, including emergency services (this can be a serious problem since ambulances and fire trucks are usually pretty large).

The fact that you win an appeal doesn't mean you're right. Local governments have better things to do than to judge every appeal in depth, so they probably err on the side of caution...

So don't be a dick, and just follow parking rules.

In Portsmouth people have been ticket for for parking the wrong direction. Some bigger cities have laws that are targeted towards tourists since they're less likely to appeal them and there is almost no way to know those obscure traffic laws.

"Hello, I'm a robot lawyer. How can I help you to pursue justice today?"

"Yeah, my car was booted. I mean, clamped, you know, those things on the wheels. By a private parking enforcement company. I didn't even leave the shopping center; I just went to Staples and then Whole Foods. But they won't listen."

"Oh, you're pretty much up a creek, dude. You need a different kind of robot, the kind with the circular saws on its limbs. Hang on, I got a friend who used to do Battle Bots before the recession. Lemme see if I can find her number."

"Local governments aren’t issuing these tickets when people are doing something wrong—they’re doing it to raise revenue."

No. They're issuing tickets because cars are parked wrong.

And yes, this is a problem. In a city the size of London it's impossible to create parking spaces for everyone who wants them, so to guarantee *some* level of decent service you have to pay for parking. There are also serious and proven health and environment risks with car exhaust, which is another good reason to limit the number of cars in densely populated areas.

More direct effects are preventing the proper flow of traffic, including emergency services (this can be a serious problem since ambulances and fire trucks are usually pretty large).

The fact that you win an appeal doesn't mean you're right. Local governments have better things to do than to judge every appeal in depth, so they probably err on the side of caution...

So don't be a dick, and just follow parking rules.

In Portsmouth people have been ticket for for parking the wrong direction. Some bigger cities have laws that are targeted towards tourists since they're less likely to appeal them and there is almost no way to know those obscure traffic laws.

Well, uh, given that the student in question is British and attends university at Stanford, I don't know that he would qualify as one of those "New Yorkers." Rather, I think he may have meant that since it is successful at negotiating legal challenges through a gigantic bureaucracy in two of the largest cities in the world, it can probably do just fine elsewhere.

or he could have been playing off of Frank Sinatras lyrics to New york.

"Local governments aren’t issuing these tickets when people are doing something wrong—they’re doing it to raise revenue."

No. They're issuing tickets because cars are parked wrong.

And yes, this is a problem. In a city the size of London it's impossible to create parking spaces for everyone who wants them, so to guarantee *some* level of decent service you have to pay for parking. There are also serious and proven health and environment risks with car exhaust, which is another good reason to limit the number of cars in densely populated areas.

More direct effects are preventing the proper flow of traffic, including emergency services (this can be a serious problem since ambulances and fire trucks are usually pretty large).

The fact that you win an appeal doesn't mean you're right. Local governments have better things to do than to judge every appeal in depth, so they probably err on the side of caution...

So don't be a dick, and just follow parking rules.

In Portsmouth people have been ticket for for parking the wrong direction. Some bigger cities have laws that are targeted towards tourists since they're less likely to appeal them and there is almost no way to know those obscure traffic laws.

But if the car is parked facing the wrong direction, then didn't the owner of the car drive against traffic to get in that place?

In any case, there's no way I can tell that from that rant, and I'm not taking random angry rants at face value...

And even if *some* people get ticketed unjustly doesn't mean *everyone* should now park willy-nilly and just do whatever. They should fix the silly rules (if any), not just throw all rules out the window.

"Local governments aren’t issuing these tickets when people are doing something wrong—they’re doing it to raise revenue."

No. They're issuing tickets because cars are parked wrong.

And yes, this is a problem. In a city the size of London it's impossible to create parking spaces for everyone who wants them, so to guarantee *some* level of decent service you have to pay for parking. There are also serious and proven health and environment risks with car exhaust, which is another good reason to limit the number of cars in densely populated areas.

More direct effects are preventing the proper flow of traffic, including emergency services (this can be a serious problem since ambulances and fire trucks are usually pretty large).

The fact that you win an appeal doesn't mean you're right. Local governments have better things to do than to judge every appeal in depth, so they probably err on the side of caution...

So don't be a dick, and just follow parking rules.

In Portsmouth people have been ticket for for parking the wrong direction. Some bigger cities have laws that are targeted towards tourists since they're less likely to appeal them and there is almost no way to know those obscure traffic laws.

But if the car is parked facing the wrong direction, then didn't the owner of the car drive against traffic to get in that place?

In any case, there's no way I can tell that from that rant, and I'm not taking random angry rants at face value...

And even if *some* people get ticketed unjustly doesn't mean *everyone* should now park willy-nilly and just do whatever. They should fix the silly rules (if any), not just throw all rules out the window.

No. It was the case like in a parking garage where you come across a parking spot and pull into it. And I can't remember if he pulled straight in or backed into it; but his car was facing the wrong way so it got a ticket.

"Local governments aren’t issuing these tickets when people are doing something wrong—they’re doing it to raise revenue."

No. They're issuing tickets because cars are parked wrong.

And yes, this is a problem. In a city the size of London it's impossible to create parking spaces for everyone who wants them, so to guarantee *some* level of decent service you have to pay for parking. There are also serious and proven health and environment risks with car exhaust, which is another good reason to limit the number of cars in densely populated areas.

More direct effects are preventing the proper flow of traffic, including emergency services (this can be a serious problem since ambulances and fire trucks are usually pretty large).

The fact that you win an appeal doesn't mean you're right. Local governments have better things to do than to judge every appeal in depth, so they probably err on the side of caution...

So don't be a dick, and just follow parking rules.

In Portsmouth people have been ticket for for parking the wrong direction. Some bigger cities have laws that are targeted towards tourists since they're less likely to appeal them and there is almost no way to know those obscure traffic laws.

2. Reverse Angle Parking: The driver of any vehicle parking in the reversediagonal parking zone shall first turn on the vehicle’s right blinker whileapproaching the parking stall, second stop the vehicle past the parkingstall while leaving sufficient maneuver room, and third back the vehicletoward the right hand curb so that the parked vehicle makes an angle offorty five degrees (45⁰) with the curb. (amd. Ord. 09-0722, 07-22-09)

With how smart cars are becoming it would be interesting if they provided a preventive measure for parking tickets. If the car knows what street I'm on and had a database of paid parking locations and allowed parking times and where permits are required then you could be notified that your current location requires a fee or is currently illegal.

If the car were really smart you could just tell it to drive around the block until you're ready to be picked up...

I got one parking ticket while in Milwaukee. I followed their guide and called their department to let them know my car was parked on a street and it'll be there for that night and the next night. I got ticketed the second night because apparently they expected me to call it in every day it was parked there.

Spoiler: show

They also called two months later threatening to issue a warrant since I didn't pay or show up for court. A quick look into their system they found I had paid the day I received the ticket after I told them I did.

Be glad you didn't park accidentally 2 feet over the line in an unlawfully wide handicap parking spot (I'm talking a 50 foot wide space for a single car) in the middle of a residential street in West Allis. That's a $300 parking ticket. I thought it was an error when I saw that fine amount, but it wasn't. City attorney refused to drop the case when presented with photos of the space and a copy of the city ordinance describing how the spaces are to be zoned. The space is supposed to be sized and reserved for a single automobile only with a couple feet allowed on either end for access. This guy had his entire property frontage zoned off (approx 50 feet). The space is to be maintained to be snow and ice-free in the winter. It wasn't and hadn't snowed for about a week prior to the ticket. Furthermore, the homeowner with the permits was known to neighbors to regularly abuse the space (parking two cars there, when only one is allowed per city ordinance, his non-disabled wife used it regularly even when he wasn't with her. Oh, and did I mention he rode his Harley regularly, weather-permitting? Magically, a month [edit: maybe two months] later, the city agreed that the guy was not disabled after finding his Harley parked in his handicapped space and revoked his permit and signs. Did I get my fine back? Hell no. The "best they could do" was reduce the fine to $117 even though I had evidence proving my case. For that kind of money, it wasn't worth the time and aggravation to demand a trial.

In Portsmouth people have been ticket for for parking the wrong direction. Some bigger cities have laws that are targeted towards tourists since they're less likely to appeal them and there is almost no way to know those obscure traffic laws.

That's a common offense. In fact, almost every state has a law on its books about parking facing the flow of traffic.

In theory, parking the wrong way makes it harder to pull out since you now have to watch traffic in two different directions. Your reflectors are facing away from traffic, so your car may not be as visible at night. It means that you have to pull out and drive on the wrong side of the road.

You can imagine parking the wrong way being an issue on a semi-major street, but most of these tickets are given out on not-very-busy back streets. These are the streets where kids play ball in the middle of the street. These are streets where people -- in order not to park the wrong way -- will make three point turns in the middle of the street. Certainly, that's causes more traffic problems than someone pulling across the street.

However, these ordinances don't specify the street size or traffic. That's sort of impossible to do. Most people wouldn't think about crossing four lanes of traffic to parallel park on a busy street the wrong way, and if someone did, you'd probably think they deserve the ticket. But, on a minor side street, who's being harmed?

Are these used for revenue generation? That's likely, but I have a feeling it's more anal than financial that drives these tickets.

I live on a street that's split between two municipalities. For years, one was a real stickler for parking the wrong way. The other took a much more laissez-faire attitude. You drove down this street, and all the cars would be facing the curb the right way. As soon as you crossed the municipal boundary, all the cars faced the wrong way. It was how we told people whether they were in one town or the other.

One day, us in the town with that laissez-faire attitude got tickets for parking the wrong way. I believe the tickets were $50 a piece. That was about 15 years ago. Since then, no one dares park in our town facing the wrong way. I figured the town earned about $1,000 in fines that one day. Not enough to make a dent in their budget, but it was enough to catch our attention.

With how smart cars are becoming it would be interesting if they provided a preventive measure for parking tickets. If the car knows what street I'm on and had a database of paid parking locations and allowed parking times and where permits are required then you could be notified that your current location requires a fee or is currently illegal.

If the car were really smart you could just tell it to drive around the block until you're ready to be picked up...

Nah, tell it to stay there until someone tries to lift its windshield wiper.

I got one parking ticket while in Milwaukee. I followed their guide and called their department to let them know my car was parked on a street and it'll be there for that night and the next night. I got ticketed the second night because apparently they expected me to call it in every day it was parked there.

Spoiler: show

They also called two months later threatening to issue a warrant since I didn't pay or show up for court. A quick look into their system they found I had paid the day I received the ticket after I told them I did.

These sorts of calls should be covered by the same kind of fraud, extortion, and fair debt collection laws as anything else.

If only we enforced the law over law enforcement and criminal justice employees and organizations...

With how smart cars are becoming it would be interesting if they provided a preventive measure for parking tickets. If the car knows what street I'm on and had a database of paid parking locations and allowed parking times and where permits are required then you could be notified that your current location requires a fee or is currently illegal.

If the car were really smart you could just tell it to drive around the block until you're ready to be picked up...

Nah, tell it to stay there until someone tries to lift its windshield wiper.

"Local governments aren’t issuing these tickets when people are doing something wrong—they’re doing it to raise revenue."

No. They're issuing tickets because cars are parked wrong.

And yes, this is a problem. In a city the size of London it's impossible to create parking spaces for everyone who wants them, so to guarantee *some* level of decent service you have to pay for parking. There are also serious and proven health and environment risks with car exhaust, which is another good reason to limit the number of cars in densely populated areas.

More direct effects are preventing the proper flow of traffic, including emergency services (this can be a serious problem since ambulances and fire trucks are usually pretty large).

The fact that you win an appeal doesn't mean you're right. Local governments have better things to do than to judge every appeal in depth, so they probably err on the side of caution...

In Portsmouth people have been ticket for for parking the wrong direction. Some bigger cities have laws that are targeted towards tourists since they're less likely to appeal them and there is almost no way to know those obscure traffic laws.

That's a common offense. In fact, almost every state has a law on its books about parking facing the flow of traffic.

In theory, parking the wrong way makes it harder to pull out since you now have to watch traffic in two different directions. Your reflectors are facing away from traffic, so your car may not be as visible at night. It means that you have to pull out and drive on the wrong side of the road.

You can imagine parking the wrong way being an issue on a semi-major street, but most of these tickets are given out on not-very-busy back streets. These are the streets where kids play ball in the middle of the street. These are streets where people -- in order not to park the wrong way -- will make three point turns in the middle of the street. Certainly, that's causes more traffic problems than someone pulling across the street.

However, these ordinances don't specify the street size or traffic. That's sort of impossible to do. Most people wouldn't think about crossing four lanes of traffic to parallel park on a busy street the wrong way, and if someone did, you'd probably think they deserve the ticket. But, on a minor side street, who's being harmed?

Are these used for revenue generation? That's likely, but I have a feeling it's more anal than financial that drives these tickets.

I live on a street that's split between two municipalities. For years, one was a real stickler for parking the wrong way. The other took a much more laissez-faire attitude. You drove down this street, and all the cars would be facing the curb the right way. As soon as you crossed the municipal boundary, all the cars faced the wrong way. It was how we told people whether they were in one town or the other.

One day, us in the town with that laissez-faire attitude got tickets for parking the wrong way. I believe the tickets were $50 a piece. That was about 15 years ago. Since then, no one dares park in our town facing the wrong way. I figured the town earned about $1,000 in fines that one day. Not enough to make a dent in their budget, but it was enough to catch our attention.

As I mentioned above, it wasn't parking along the street, it was an actual parking spot you pull into like that in a parking garage or parking lot. If it were the case where you described it be more reasonable.

"Local governments aren’t issuing these tickets when people are doing something wrong—they’re doing it to raise revenue."

No. They're issuing tickets because cars are parked wrong.

And yes, this is a problem. In a city the size of London it's impossible to create parking spaces for everyone who wants them, so to guarantee *some* level of decent service you have to pay for parking. There are also serious and proven health and environment risks with car exhaust, which is another good reason to limit the number of cars in densely populated areas.

More direct effects are preventing the proper flow of traffic, including emergency services (this can be a serious problem since ambulances and fire trucks are usually pretty large).

The fact that you win an appeal doesn't mean you're right. Local governments have better things to do than to judge every appeal in depth, so they probably err on the side of caution...

So don't be a dick, and just follow parking rules.

No, they're doing it to raise revenue. Next time your city announces a budget shortfall or similar financial "crisis," go have a look the next day and tickets being issued everywhere.

When was the last time you read about an epidemic of "parked wrong" or any such nonsense. Clearly, you've never had your completely legally parked car towed, and even when you showed photos proving you were legally parked, had to pay the $200 anyway because "the system" type dumbass excuses.

Similarly, you've never driven through that small town that issues 300 times as many tickets as the other towns along the same stretch of road - you know, the one where the lower speed limit sign is "posted" (illegally) behind a tree, and you've never had a cop write you a ticket for going 23mph faster than you were driving.

Yes, there is a need for parking enforcement. But, the bulk of tickets are to raise revenue.

Anyone who has ever moved to certain parts of Los Angeles knows that it's just not possible for a normal human to always be aware of all parking rules in a given location in some cities. I've known many people who have never had a parking ticket in their life until they move to LA, and then they regularly get one or two a year, without ever intentionally violating a rule. You eventually just accept it as part of owning a car in LA.

I don't think it's purely a revenue generating enterprise, It's also obviously to keep the car situation wrangled, but it sure does feel like a tax.

Doesn't seem like a long term winning strategy: if it's reasonably easy to get out of a ticket, and suddenly there's a massive increase in rescinded fines, then government's just going to get better at making the tickets stick or ignoring appeals.

Doesn't seem like a long term winning strategy: if it's reasonably easy to get out of a ticket, and suddenly there's a massive increase in rescinded fines, then government's just going to get better at making the tickets stick or ignoring appeals.

++

Now that they've been alerted to this, the parking authorities will probably be taking a hard look at any appeals generated by this bot.

In Portsmouth people have been ticket for for parking the wrong direction. Some bigger cities have laws that are targeted towards tourists since they're less likely to appeal them and there is almost no way to know those obscure traffic laws.

That's a common offense. In fact, almost every state has a law on its books about parking facing the flow of traffic.

In theory, parking the wrong way makes it harder to pull out since you now have to watch traffic in two different directions. Your reflectors are facing away from traffic, so your car may not be as visible at night. It means that you have to pull out and drive on the wrong side of the road.

You can imagine parking the wrong way being an issue on a semi-major street, but most of these tickets are given out on not-very-busy back streets. These are the streets where kids play ball in the middle of the street. These are streets where people -- in order not to park the wrong way -- will make three point turns in the middle of the street. Certainly, that's causes more traffic problems than someone pulling across the street.

However, these ordinances don't specify the street size or traffic. That's sort of impossible to do. Most people wouldn't think about crossing four lanes of traffic to parallel park on a busy street the wrong way, and if someone did, you'd probably think they deserve the ticket. But, on a minor side street, who's being harmed?

Are these used for revenue generation? That's likely, but I have a feeling it's more anal than financial that drives these tickets.

I live on a street that's split between two municipalities. For years, one was a real stickler for parking the wrong way. The other took a much more laissez-faire attitude. You drove down this street, and all the cars would be facing the curb the right way. As soon as you crossed the municipal boundary, all the cars faced the wrong way. It was how we told people whether they were in one town or the other.

One day, us in the town with that laissez-faire attitude got tickets for parking the wrong way. I believe the tickets were $50 a piece. That was about 15 years ago. Since then, no one dares park in our town facing the wrong way. I figured the town earned about $1,000 in fines that one day. Not enough to make a dent in their budget, but it was enough to catch our attention.

He wasn't parked against the flow of traffic. He just backed into the spot instead of pulling in with his front bumper against the curb.

I think people, including the article headline writer, are making far too big a deal about the bot, since said bot is actually only a sort of helper app to fill out an appeal form. In fact, as the article states, you could just bypass the chatbot and fill out the form yourself.

So the only issue here is that the guy is making it easier to access a standard legal appeal form. Which, unfortunately, I could see him getting in trouble for, depending if some local municipality decides he's practicing law without a license or some such nonsense...

They are absolutely doing it to raise revenue. How else can cities justify the new "smart" parking meters that sense when you pull out of a parking spot and automatically zero out any time remaining on the meter? It is also well known in the parking industry that street meters are actually calibrated to run fast, but not so fast as to be obvious and that the coin acceptors are set to be extremely aggressive and will disallow ("eat") coins that are well within the legal specifications as often as 3% of the time. Cities are very careful to keep these "thefts" just below the threshold where people get annoyed enough to pursue action.

Then there's the truly egregious situations. My city has this lovely bylaw where you can be ticketed and towed for parking in front of someone's property for more than 3 hours, if they complain. There is no way to know about this other than reading the bylaws or being warned by one of the few residents of the city that are actually aware of this themselves. While this is theoretically intended to allow homeowners to make sure they have a parking space for themselves, the potential for abuse is obvious.

I got one parking ticket while in Milwaukee. I followed their guide and called their department to let them know my car was parked on a street and it'll be there for that night and the next night. I got ticketed the second night because apparently they expected me to call it in every day it was parked there.

Spoiler: show

They also called two months later threatening to issue a warrant since I didn't pay or show up for court. A quick look into their system they found I had paid the day I received the ticket after I told them I did.

Be glad you didn't park accidentally 2 feet over the line in an unlawfully wide handicap parking spot (I'm talking a 50 foot wide space for a single car) in the middle of a residential street in West Allis. That's a $300 parking ticket. I thought it was an error when I saw that fine amount, but it wasn't. City attorney refused to drop the case when presented with photos of the space and a copy of the city ordinance describing how the spaces are to be zoned. The space is supposed to be sized and reserved for a single automobile only with a couple feet allowed on either end for access. This guy had his entire property frontage zoned off (approx 50 feet). The space is to be maintained to be snow and ice-free in the winter. It wasn't and hadn't snowed for about a week prior to the ticket. Furthermore, the homeowner with the permits was known to neighbors to regularly abuse the space (parking two cars there, when only one is allowed per city ordinance, his non-disabled wife used it regularly even when he wasn't with her. Oh, and did I mention he rode his Harley regularly, weather-permitting? Magically, a month [edit: maybe two months] later, the city agreed that the guy was not disabled after finding his Harley parked in his handicapped space and revoked his permit and signs. Did I get my fine back? Hell no. The "best they could do" was reduce the fine to $117 even though I had evidence proving my case. For that kind of money, it wasn't worth the time and aggravation to demand a trial.

Another person's bad acts don't justify your own. Overly wide or not, you should not have been there.

I'm sorry but the prosecutor was right. As far as your infraction goes, the "handicapped' persons was irrelevant.

I got one parking ticket while in Milwaukee. I followed their guide and called their department to let them know my car was parked on a street and it'll be there for that night and the next night. I got ticketed the second night because apparently they expected me to call it in every day it was parked there.

Spoiler: show

They also called two months later threatening to issue a warrant since I didn't pay or show up for court. A quick look into their system they found I had paid the day I received the ticket after I told them I did.

Be glad you didn't park accidentally 2 feet over the line in an unlawfully wide handicap parking spot (I'm talking a 50 foot wide space for a single car) in the middle of a residential street in West Allis. That's a $300 parking ticket. I thought it was an error when I saw that fine amount, but it wasn't. City attorney refused to drop the case when presented with photos of the space and a copy of the city ordinance describing how the spaces are to be zoned. The space is supposed to be sized and reserved for a single automobile only with a couple feet allowed on either end for access. This guy had his entire property frontage zoned off (approx 50 feet). The space is to be maintained to be snow and ice-free in the winter. It wasn't and hadn't snowed for about a week prior to the ticket. Furthermore, the homeowner with the permits was known to neighbors to regularly abuse the space (parking two cars there, when only one is allowed per city ordinance, his non-disabled wife used it regularly even when he wasn't with her. Oh, and did I mention he rode his Harley regularly, weather-permitting? Magically, a month [edit: maybe two months] later, the city agreed that the guy was not disabled after finding his Harley parked in his handicapped space and revoked his permit and signs. Did I get my fine back? Hell no. The "best they could do" was reduce the fine to $117 even though I had evidence proving my case. For that kind of money, it wasn't worth the time and aggravation to demand a trial.

Another person's bad acts don't justify your own. Overly wide or not, you should not have been there.

I'm sorry but the prosecutor was right. As far as your infraction goes, the "handicapped' persons was irrelevant.

While I'd siding with you on the ruling, I feel like after the fact, the guy should have had to make payments to everyone who was fined because of his fraudulent acts.

Doesn't seem like a long term winning strategy: if it's reasonably easy to get out of a ticket, and suddenly there's a massive increase in rescinded fines, then government's just going to get better at making the tickets stick or ignoring appeals.

Or make rules like in Massachusetts wherein you are responsible for court fees ($25) if you contest a traffic ticket...payable in advance...non-refundable (win or lose.)

"Local governments aren’t issuing these tickets when people are doing something wrong—they’re doing it to raise revenue."

No. They're issuing tickets because cars are parked wrong.

And yes, this is a problem. In a city the size of London it's impossible to create parking spaces for everyone who wants them, so to guarantee *some* level of decent service you have to pay for parking. There are also serious and proven health and environment risks with car exhaust, which is another good reason to limit the number of cars in densely populated areas.

More direct effects are preventing the proper flow of traffic, including emergency services (this can be a serious problem since ambulances and fire trucks are usually pretty large).

The fact that you win an appeal doesn't mean you're right. Local governments have better things to do than to judge every appeal in depth, so they probably err on the side of caution...

So don't be a dick, and just follow parking rules.

You're overlooking the fact that the people who are actually paid to issue parking tickets are the same people who are being relied upon to interpret law, and these men and women are often not native English speakers. That means that often, they will confer among themselves / their manager to interpret laws and ordinances in rather creative fashion in order to issue more tickets. They, frankly, give no fucks and there are literally no stakes involved in issuing a completely defective ticket.

A lot of the time you can appeal a ticket simply by looking up the ordinance the ticket issuer cited and explaining that the law or ordinance was applied inappropriately to your situation.

He wasn't parked against the flow of traffic. He just backed into the spot instead of pulling in with his front bumper against the curb.

I've been to many a place that requires parking to be 'head in' so it's not really that alien a concept. As an example, a lot of garages will have it listed on their rules prior to entering the structure and downtown districts will usually list it at the entrance to the shopping district.

You're overlooking the fact that the people who are actually paid to issue parking tickets are the same people who are being relied upon to interpret law, and these men and women are often not native English speakers.

Whoa. Didn't expect a dose of xenophobia for an article about a parking ticket appeal helper bot.