The least Satanic thing about LttD is that it has been free. The fact that it has been here at all is appreciated. Magister Ventrue has done everyone a great service at his expense for too long. No Satanist worth their sulfur would say that this should be free and that Magister Ventrue should provide it for free.

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HS!AtreusThe better it gets, the better it gets.

I wouldn't mind too much if subscriptions were required. I do see Zaftig's point in that newbies with potential might be turned off by the posts in the remaining free sections.

Another idea is this: there are a number of very talented CoS members with projects to market. Why not charge for ads, like how MySpace Ads does it, by bid per time frame and with charges perhaps per click. There could be a standard size specified and ads would need to be approved beforehand, but imagine how this could benefit all parties involved.

I fully support your move to begin charging a subscription fee for the LttD. Instead of a poll asking if we would be willing to pay a nominal fee of $1 or $2 it may be more beneficial to produce a poll that gives us a range for what we would be willing to pay a year. Don’t sell yourself short by asking so little.

For example, a poll that’s asks us,

“What is LttD worth to you a year?

• $24• $36• $48• $66

Once you see where the numbers fall, base the subscription on where you will get the biggest bang for your efforts.

I would personaly have no problem with paying fee for this WONDERFUL forum. I was even wondering why there were no fee at all to begin with...

HS!

Warlock Sonny

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Here is the basic “house rule”: When members have conflicting values, they are to go their own way, not wasting energy and time sniping at the members who have selected different methods of applying Satanism to reach personal satisfaction. Quite a simple guideline, we think. However, this is too much to expect from some, usually the ones who never got Satanic Rule of the Earth number 1: “Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.”

Magister, Your generosity has been overwhelming. Your business ethics impecable. The time that you spend not only maintaining the sites(both Lttd and Undercroft) as well as the time assisting those of us who have a problem connecting to renovations ( as you did with me with the last incarnation of Undercroft) have all been donated freely by you. And, personally , greatly appreciated. I am surprised that this has not come up before this. The fee would be money well spent. One pays willingly for that of value to them. You have worked very hard to keep the sites secure and the membership on both safe. Thank you.

I would pay without hesitation. I thoroughly enjoy the insights and opinions of many members, and estimate the fee to be some of my best-spent money in terms of "what do I get from it."

I can see 3 drawbacks:

As Zaftig stated, new people would be expected to pay without knowing what they are spending their money for. However, many pay the COS membership fee without any other insight than the available literature and website, because they consider it worth it. These sources are still available for someone considering joining LttD. I am not talking about people who might want their red card to get access to the LttD basement, first because LttD and the CoS are different entities, second, because even those who do so don't know what they'll find "down there." These persons apparently find motivation enough from the available resources. Many members who make the most worthwhile contributions here also have their own blog or website, which would also still be available. In addition, a couple of forums would still be available to the public,which would provide some more specific insight.

Another problem might be the shit-disturbers: Certainly having to pay a fee would filter out most of them, but one would still find some particularly persistent chunks, who would be doubly annoying because they would now feel entitled to our undivided attention: they paid, so they are kings. Kicking them out would breed a lot more resentment than it does now, probably with subsequent harassment.

Third point: posters are supposed to "pay their way" here by contributing in a constructive manner, but there might be a few users who will clutter the forums with unconstructive, pointless and stupid "social chat," and feel entitled to do so because they "already paid their way in." In the long run, these will more than probably fall into the n°2 problem section, though.

All in all, I see no drawbacks in instauring a fee. That is, apart from actually making the payment itself!

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According to a gentleman here, it seems I am "Gloriously Depraved!"

Besides offsetting out of pocket costs to you, it would also help to get rid of people who complain about such things. I enjoy your websites and appreciate all the hard work that you have put into them. They have value and provide a place for the vital exchange of ideas.

Thank you for creating and maintaining them, and I wish you continued success in all of your endeavours!

I have to agree with most people on the thread. It's really quite difficult to just refer to this as a Website. I have met Friends and foes here. I have grown and made mistakes here. I have learned and Satan forbid, may have even got a point or 2 across here. I met my Fiance here ( sorry Magister, I know you cringe at the meeting people parts but it is true). I have have received words of encouragement and support in times of need, and been able to offer them in return. I have had so many great laughs and fits of anger while sitting in the parlor of this great virtual Black House. Now, our landlord is asking for a little bit to help offset construction and hedge trimming. What ever You ask Magister, it is a small price to pay for so many memories had as well as those yet to come. Count me in for at the base of things, THIS is the house Ventrue built and we are ALL lucky to have such a gracious Host.

I vote for subscriptions.

May I add the idea of varying lengths of subscription? May be a short subscription option for newbies such as a month-by-month subscription.

Er.. and how about a candle of the month club.... I would LOVE that!!!!