There were some comments a few weeks back on our Fordham board that knocked those that called for us to schedule a few IA games. I believe the rationale is mostly that getting your tail whooped is a morale killer and it also exposes your team to more injuries given the improved level of play, more speed, more size, etc.

What do you guys think?

As a former player, I would have loved to have played as many IA games as possible, regardless of the fact that we would have taken a beating.

Add to that the possible payout and the ability to use that as a recruiting tool, and I think it's a no brainer to schedule them.

Then again, I played in the time when we "built a helluva lot of character" at Fordham, which basically means that I would have preferred to tell people that we got shellacked by Penn St. than to have been shellacked by Holy Cross (back in HC's scholly days) ... or Colgate ... or Lehigh ... or Lafayette ... so I may be a bit biased.

GannonFan

May 12th, 2005, 11:25 AM

Is there really any actual proof showing that there are more injuries in games against IA teams than against regular IAA competition? I think that's more of an urban legend than anything else. Playing IA games has to be fun - big stadium, atmosphere, more national recognition, but I would imagine any more than 1 or 2 is a bit counterproductive. Most games against IA's are losses so playing too many can make your chances for the IAA playoffs difficult if not impossible. Would you trade 1 IA game for a IAA championship? I think quite a few would rather play four games and win in Chatty than just playing one afternoon in even a place like Ann Arbor and knowing the game's over by halftime.

Tribe4SF

May 12th, 2005, 11:34 AM

I-A games are definitely a plus for W&M players. And I've never noticed any increased level of injuries. Our nemesis game for injuries has always been VMI.

OL FU

May 12th, 2005, 11:37 AM

I am not a former player but from conversations and interviews with players I am confident that our players look forward to the I-A's and are disppointed the years without one.

As far as injuries, I have no facts just memory. The Pitt game was the first I-A game I recall where FU suffered abnormally high injuries. In fact more than a few years ago, FU played at Florida State (10-7 at the end of the third quarter and a typical blow out in the fourth) where a radio announcer said the FSU sideline looked like a mash unit.

colgate13

May 12th, 2005, 11:49 AM

As a former player I liked the one I-A game on the schedule. It's a great thing to look forward to. Any more than that though - I'd prefer to stay in my division.

blueballs

May 12th, 2005, 12:04 PM

Sewak told a few of us informally that the GSU players were stoked both before and after the meeting with UGA last fall. The players figured that they had lined up against a top 10 (UGA was ranked 3 at the time) team and had gone toe to toe. He thought the confidence and momentum carried over into the conference schedule and the results don't dispute that opinion.

bluehenbillk

May 12th, 2005, 12:06 PM

Personally I'd like to see us play a big-time 1-A every so often. Gannon Fan you're unqualified to make a comment about the Big House since you've turned down tickets for games there twice.

Cap'n Cat

May 12th, 2005, 12:13 PM

Cap'n Cat played in only one game v I-A when at UNI (Kansas State, 1985). We won and we had no fear. They were no Oklahoma, but it was a huge thrill.

The players love it. The injury thing is a ********* excuse used by wormy admins and cowardly coaches.

Pound 'em, steal their money and get the hell outta town.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

GannonFan

May 12th, 2005, 12:22 PM

Gannon Fan you're unqualified to make a comment about the Big House since you've turned down tickets for games there twice.

Nah, I walked the hallowed halls of that stadium before you did so I'll keep my qualification, thank you very much. Besides, one of your games was Bowling Green so I don't that should count. :p

Tribe4SF

May 12th, 2005, 12:28 PM

Pound 'em, steal their money and get the hell outta town.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

You forgot to include "use their women" in that. :nod: :nod: :nod:

arkstfan

May 12th, 2005, 12:32 PM

Not a former player, but I'm friends with a number of former players at Arkansas State.

The guys who played I-AA ball still talk about beating Memphis, tying Ole Miss, and losing on the phantom clip at Texas A&M more than any games they played.

Injuries?

Let's see there was the QB injury against Texas A&M. The Aggies lost five the remaining 8 after stAte knocked their QB out for the season.

In 1997 Arkansas State's top receiver destroyed his knee against Division II Central Arkansas on a play where he wasn't touched and our middle linebacker broke his arm at the bottom of a pile-up. We had come out of Athens, GA the week before with no injuries other than a DB leaving the game for a bit with leg cramps (day games in Georgia in August ought to be a crime against humanity).

Paladin1aa

May 12th, 2005, 01:23 PM

Never in that position. It was enough to play vs your league rivals or grudge games ( according to the newspaper).

Simply put, its one thing to line-up against Ohio St or Okla. and another playing the Rutgers and Vandys of the world .

A "stud" in any division is still a "stud". A "weenie" is still a "weenie".

WMTribe90

May 12th, 2005, 02:19 PM

As a former player I loved playing one IA game a year. They are a great measuring stick, recruiting tool, and a fan favorite. You enter the game with virtually nothing to lose and a great opportunity to prove you play with the "big boys" of DI (IA and IAA).

95 Lost to UVA

96 One incomplete hail mary in the endzone from spoiling UCFs and Culpeppers IA debut

97 Beat Temple in the Vet

98 No IA opponent

99 Lost to Top 25 NCST

Win or lose a great experience. We lost a starting guard for the season at and a DT for several weeks at UCF. I don't recall any other serious injuries from the other IA games. As stated above VMI seems to cause us the most injuries. Likely because the try to compensate for the sub-par athleticism with cheap play and questionable techniques.

DTSpider

May 12th, 2005, 02:40 PM

I know my friends at Richmond loved playing the 1A games. It was the only time they got to play in front of 60,000 people. In particular playing UVA was a big rush since many of them had not been offered a scholarship there but knew many players on the team.

WMTribe90

May 12th, 2005, 03:01 PM

An additioanl thought on the injury question. One situation where there is an increased risk of injury may be the I-AA QB vs the IA DL. By position the biggest talent gap between IA and IAA is likely on the defensive line. This is simply due to the overall lack of large, but yet agile, defensive lineman coming out of HS. The QB, by the nature of the position, is often put in vulnerable or defenseless position (i.e., blind side or being hit during the delivery) and is therefore more likely to be injured in a IA game IF his OL is severely over-matched. I don't think this is often the case, but I'm sure an argument could be made...

Tribe4SF

May 12th, 2005, 03:11 PM

An additioanl thought on the injury question. One situation where there is an increased risk of injury may be the I-AA QB vs the IA DL. By position the biggest talent gap between IA and IAA is likely on the defensive line. This is simply due to the overall lack of large, but yet agile, defensive lineman coming out of HS. The QB, by the nature of the position, is often put in vulnerable or defenseless position (i.e., blind side or being hit during the delivery) and is therefore more likely to be injured in a IA game IF his OL is severely over-matched. I don't think this is often the case, but I'm sure an argument could be made...

QBs at W&M have never been injured against a I-A. During your time, there was one QB injury, and you know who that came against? That's right - VMI.

GannonFan

May 12th, 2005, 03:40 PM

As stated above VMI seems to cause us the most injuries. Likely because the try to compensate for the sub-par athleticism with cheap play and questionable techniques.

:eek: There's a slam at VMI outta nowhere! Luckily, there are no VMI fans so such a thrown gauntlet will go unanswered. :nod:

RichH

May 12th, 2005, 03:57 PM

Since I am rather long in the tooth and wide of the waist now, my recollections of I-A games goes back to when Lehigh was div II. Rutgers was a rivalry game and usually competitive. We played Army also up there great experience. Don't recall any real injury problems in any of those games. Game with Virginia probably best of all even tho we lost. We went for the win with a 2 pt conversion and lost.

WMTribe90

May 12th, 2005, 03:58 PM

Hey, I call'em how I see them. From my experience VMI was the dirtiest/talked the most crap and UMass was a close second. UMass has the athletes, just a disproportionate number of MassHoles. I'm sure I WILLl here it for this one. As for VMI, I never could understand how a team losing by three or four TDs could talk so much smack??

Lehigh Football Nation

May 12th, 2005, 04:37 PM

I'm not a former player, but I can speak to the injury thing. In 2003 I do remember QB Chad Schwenk getting injured at UConn near the end of the game which ended his collegiate career. Not sure it would have made a difference for that season, where we went 8-3, lost to undefeated Penn, Colgate and I-A UConn and somehow didn't get an at-large playoff spot. But we'll never know for sure.

In 2002 we played I-A Buffalo, beat them handily 37-26, and didn't have any injuries. As a matter of fact, the big star in that game (whose name escapes me) blew out his knee the next week against Georgetown abd Lehigh wasn't the same after that. If anything, that illustrates that freaky injuries can happen against any opponent anytime.

WMTribe90

May 12th, 2005, 04:52 PM

QBs at W&M have never been injured against a I-A. During your time, there was one QB injury, and you know who that came against? That's right - VMI.

Yep. We'll always have to wonder about the "season that could have been" if Cook doesn't have his knee blown out on a late hit.

DTSpider

May 12th, 2005, 05:27 PM

While I think that one 1A game is great, I hope that Richmond doesn't try two again. In 2001 Richmond lost close games to UVA and Vanderbilt to start the season. In all honestly, I've heard from fans of both schools that thought Richmond played better than both teams. Both games though had several injuries (in particular the Vanderbilt game) and left the team extremely shorthanded. That was probably the most talented Richmond team I've seen and they finished somewhere around 4-7. That team had everyone back from the 2000 team that reached the 2nd round of the playoffs.

Mr. C

May 13th, 2005, 01:22 AM

Probably the most important I-AA vs I-A win was when The Citadel beat Arkansas in 1990. Jack Crowe, then at Arkansas and now at Jacksonville State, was fired the next day by AD Frank Broyles. What would some of you consider some of th other important I-AA vs I-A wins?

Tribe4SF

May 13th, 2005, 06:29 AM

1986

W&M 41 Virginia 37

Tribe was led by former UVA basketball player Ken Lambiotte at QB who had transfered to W&M in 1985.

OL FU

May 13th, 2005, 07:53 AM

1984 Furman 34 NC State 30
1985 Furman 42 NC State 20

Two years in a row. The Wolpack fired their coach and hired Furman's.

If you can't beat them, hire their coach.

arkstfan

May 13th, 2005, 09:26 AM

Probably the most important I-AA vs I-A win was when The Citadel beat Arkansas in 1990. Jack Crowe, then at Arkansas and now at Jacksonville State, was fired the next day by AD Frank Broyles. What would some of you consider some of th other important I-AA vs I-A wins?

For perspective consider this. Arkansas had gone 6-6 the year before losing in the Independence Bowl. Crowe's contract was extended to three years and his firing meant they paid him for 32 games he didn't coach and one he did on that contract.

Pen Guin

May 13th, 2005, 09:48 AM

What do you guys think?

As a former player, I would have loved to have played as many IA games as possible, regardless of the fact that we would have taken a beating.

What, who makes up these threads? I don't think you ever played ball Fordham. I never played college ball, but I can tell you this. You want to win at all costs. You want to win your conference. You want to win every game you ever played. You want to be the first class in your school's history to never lose a game in all 4 years. This intensity does not die with the reality of your first loss either. It only intensifies, as you do what ever it takes not to lose another.

If you looked at a schedule at the beginning of the year & saw that 1/2 of your games were impossible wins, you would walk over and strangle your AD. He would be trying to yell out that 'title IX and idiot fans that love money games made him do it', but no one would ever hear it. That is what sports are all about. That is what being a winner is all about. Winners don't "accept" anything, other than a win. You take the field each summer, ready to win your games, vanquish all rivals, make the play-off, win your conference, take the national crown.

And if you are 0-10 going into your final game ... I don't care if you are playing the Trojans, Buckeyes, Nittany Lions, or Huskers. They will be carrying you out in a body bag before you surrender anything. If you do not think this way ... then you never played ball ... or at least real ball under a real coach.

Pard94

May 13th, 2005, 11:18 AM

When I played at Lafayette we would play Army every year. While we got our as handed to us a couple of times, we also held our own a couple of times. When I was a junior we had them beat right up to the last 38 seconds. Their frigging kicker hit a 42 yard field goal to beat us with seconds left on the clock. It was their homecoming so we damn near beat them in front of 40,000+ cadets. We had 4 star generals shaking our hands after the game! It was very cool (even though we lost). Great experience!

Fordham

May 13th, 2005, 11:33 AM

What, who makes up these threads? a guy who played the game who is responding to a joker who didn't. I had to see if it was April 1st and 89hen or 13 was playing a joke with such a ridiculous post. Since it's only Friday the 13th, though, I'll respond.

I don't think you ever played ball Fordham. I never played college ball, but I can tell you this. You want to win at all costs. Where did I say or imply that I didn't want to win at all costs when I played (seriously, find me the quote)? The part you didn't comprehend is that now that my playing days are over it's pretty easy to admit that playing for a team that got spanked by fellow I-AA's, I would come off as more than a little ridiculous to state that we wouldn't take our beating if playing a I-A back then. Apparently you don't have a problem with coming off as ridiculous.

You want to win your conference. You want to win every game you ever played. You want to be the first class in your school's history to never lose a game in all 4 years. This intensity does not die with the reality of your first loss either. It only intensifies, as you do what ever it takes not to lose another. Were you listening to Def Leppard, banging your head against the wall and reminiscing about all those great hits you had in high school while you were writing this? I guess the fact that you never played college football has played havoc with your mind to the point that you wouldn't be able to admit to yourself that a team you played on that got crushed by I-AA schools consistently 10+ years ago would have likely taken a worse beating if they had played a higher level of competition. Outstanding argument! :rolleyes:

If you looked at a schedule at the beginning of the year & saw that 1/2 of your games were impossible wins, you would walk over and strangle your AD. He would be trying to yell out that 'title IX and idiot fans that love money games made him do it', but no one would ever hear it. That is what sports are all about. That is what being a winner is all about. Winners don't "accept" anything, other than a win. You take the field each summer, ready to win your games, vanquish all rivals, make the play-off, win your conference, take the national crown.

And if you are 0-10 going into your final game ... I don't care if you are playing the Trojans, Buckeyes, Nittany Lions, or Huskers. They will be carrying you out in a body bag before you surrender anything. If you do not think this way ... then you never played ball ... or at least real ball under a real coach. Odd, rambling part of your post here.

If you actually had the attitude you expressed in the last paragraph, then why wouldn't you want to play the best level of competition you could? In your world you strangle the AD for making things too tough on you. In mine, I don't care if I risk taking a beating if it means playing the best, performing in a great arena, doing something I dreamed about since I was young, etc. You contort yourself so much in this argument that it's impossible to know if you'd like to knock heads like the tough guy you are against the Trojans, Buckeyes, etc. or if you'd shrink from it by whining to the AD at your school.

Finally, your post would have at least made a little sense if I had been a player now and said that I knew this year's upcoming games v. I-A's are going to give us and me a beating. Of course that's not the attitude you want anyone to have going in to the game; however, given that we're talking about what happened 10 years ago, I don't and didn't feel like being disingenous by making it sound as if we would have likely kicked some butt. Plus, on top of that, I'm saying that even if I was going to get a beating, I'd still do play ... not shrink back and whine to my AD about playing the game like you said you would. But then again, I also don't feel the need to talk like an internet tough guy either since I realize that you actually come off as the opposite of that when you try so hard like you just did.

Kansas State - Me on D and Cap'n on O = whipped their asses and I dislocated the QB's shoulder on the last play of the game (hail Mary). Pussies ran off the field embarrassed, didn't even shake our hands. Coach was fired directly after the game. UNI went to the semifinals and lost a very close game to GSU.

Kansas State - Killed em even worse the next year. They have never scheduled UNI again.

Iowa State - Lost by 1

Minnesota - Lost 24 to 10. They went up 17-0 in the first Q. From that point on it was a 10-7 game (UNI). 52,000 attendance.

Injury stuff is bull****. Iowa State and Minnesota was in the same year 1987 where UNI killed YSU and Arkansas State in the playoff then lost a double overtime game to the eventual NC NE La. State (in that game we were down 35-0 at halftime, came back and tied the game and lost in 2ot - perhaps one of the greatest 1AA games in history) Stan Humphries was Neast's QB.

DaGriz

May 13th, 2005, 10:30 PM

Two years in a row. The Wolpack fired their coach and hired Furman's.

That is hilarious. Is that true? Talk about about auditioning for your job.

OL FU

May 16th, 2005, 08:36 AM

Two years in a row. The Wolpack fired their coach and hired Furman's.

That is hilarious. Is that true? Talk about about auditioning for your job.

Yep, Dick Sherdan was the coach. Left after the '85 NC lost to Georgia Southern and coached at NC State for 5 or 6 years (may have been longer)

OL FU

May 16th, 2005, 08:49 AM

Yep, Dick Sherdan was the coach. Left after the '85 NC lost to Georgia Southern and coached at NC State for 5 or 6 years (may have been longer)

Not that it matters much, but the 1986 NC State helmet (I think it lasted for about fifteen years) had NCS shaped like a diamond (Yeah similar to FU's)

Strange huh.

Pard94

May 16th, 2005, 10:13 AM

I attneded Lafayette and played from 1990-1994. As I recall we played Army every year I was there. We only really scared them my Junior year though. This was before they put their new surface down so the field was as hard as a parking lot and the rug burns were ridiculous. That being said, it is a beautiful campus and stadium and the atmosphere was great.

arkstfan

May 16th, 2005, 01:46 PM

Iowa State and Minnesota was in the same year 1987 where UNI killed YSU and Arkansas State in the playoff then lost a double overtime game to the eventual NC NE La. State (in that game we were down 35-0 at halftime, came back and tied the game and lost in 2ot - perhaps one of the greatest 1AA games in history) Stan Humphries was Neast's QB.

Luckily I didn't get to listen to that game. We were hosting Memphis in basketball that night I was on the second row and the crowd was so loud I couldn't hear the radio.

UMgrizzlies

May 31st, 2005, 05:59 PM

Cap'n Cat played in only one game v I-A when at UNI (Kansas State, 1985). We won and we had no fear. They were no Oklahoma, but it was a huge thrill.

The players love it. The injury thing is a ********* excuse used by wormy admins and cowardly coaches.

Pound 'em, steal their money and get the hell outta town.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Amazing, you put it perfectly. The chance to take a shot at the big boys, and win, is too good to pass up.