I could care less what some shitheel a-rab military dictator the CIA put in power during the Cold Wardoes to his own fucking people,

Gaddifi, Saddam, Nassar, the Shah (reinstalled by the CIA after a "revolution", which lead to the enmity between the Iranian people,regardless of religion or politics, and the Federal Americans, allowing them to be lead by the nose into another revolution, this timewith Muhammad at the Wheel), the Saud Family (not installed by the CIA, as Saud killed all the other princes in 1923, but certainlykept in power by the Federal Military) ....&etc.

my point is that this is by no means even close to being the first time the Federal Military has installed a dictator, and that dictatorstarted thinking he was Somebody and Calling His Own Shots, and they had to start feeding the media propaganda and turn TheirBoy into an "evil tyrant" and wait for the geo-political moment to remove him and install somebody else ...

and you can take the term "a-rab" as a derogatory racial slur, or as my style of writing in My Voice - if I had said this standing at thebar in the Deadhorse, in my unique alabama/south arkansas/west texas drawl (which I have, of course) you would have heard it that way;another case of taking the bait of a media-called "code-word" and stopping comprehension of the message ...

if'n I'da wanted to call the boy something obviously derogatorily racist, I'da said sand-nigger, or camel jockey, or goat fucker,or towel-head, or carpet-kissing heathen, or, in the words of the Federal Military Leadership, haji ...

don't give a fuck about "bringing democracy" to any little fucking brown people'

you could take "little" and "brown" out of that statement and it would still apply;the Federal Military has never brought "peace, freedom & democracy" to anybody anywhere, yet that has been the stated "objective"for every war they've fought since 1946...(an argument could be made for South Korea, except that it would be wrong; South Korea isrun like a tight-fisted machine by the SK Military, who are one the many Farm Teams for Mother Green; the South Korean people are"enjoying" the same types of "freedom" brought to the peoples of Europe and North America by the Same Boss ... produce goods,consume them, don't bitch, we will kill you)

the Federal Military has taken no action against any other group of White People since 1945, except in the case of Serbia, and that was duringthe time period when they were trying to buy-off the Muslim religious leaders and subvert them before their Jihad gathered steam, and also theRussians were arming the Serbs, so the Pentagon saw this as a win-win-win-win ... show the Arab world they loved and would bring peace,freedom and democracy to the Muslims of Southern Europe, fuck with the KGB Colonels in charge of the New Russia, display to the worldall their neat-o firepower, AND kill people ...

insane Wahhabi Islam'

having spent many years in Saudi Arabia and other shitheel a-rab countries, back when the media thought Wahabbi was that hot shit theJaps put on raw fish, I can tell you without a doubt that the Wahhabist doctrine is fucking insane, would make David Koresh say "wait, what?",that the leaders of the sect are fucking insane, and that the only reason this form of islam has been allowed to flourish in Saudi Arabia is becauseit turns the people into obedient, fanatical sheep ... good for the Sauds, good for the CIA, good for the Federal Military ...

and all I'm saying, all I've ever said here, is that they are lying to you ... I donot atall care what they do, or why ...just don't parrot their propaganda horseshit when the truth is obvious ...

................ I exist only to amuse myself ................

I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know how to fully interact with people. ~ "Spice Grandson" (Bryon Merrit) 08 June 2008

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with the "merits" of the military action; I'm not sure there are any ....

my only point has been that, by itself, imposing a "no-fly zone" over another sovereign nation IS an act of war -same point I made for over ten years about the no-fly zones in Iraq: there is no way you cannot look it and deemit in accordance with "international law", despite what "resolutions" the U.N. has "passed" to "sanction" it ...

this "operation" went well beyond imposing a "no-fly zone"; US Federal Military warplanes have completely destroyedthe Libyan Air Force, destroyed every runway and airstrip in the country, destroyed an as-yet undisclosed and undeterminednumber of "military targets", AND, here's the kicker, provided air support for the retreating rebels; and after the Libyan air forcewas taken out, air support was given and is on-going for the new "rebel offensive" ....

they can call it whatever they want, couch it in whatever terms they think the public wants to hear, but the realityon the ground is that this "coalition" is at war with Libya, has actively joined sides in a civil war, and is killing civilians.

this is your line that set me off :

It's intervening to prevent human rights atrocities and enabling the people to install their own democratic government.

which lead to "horseshit" ...

the military operation is not about either of those things - it's about 25 years of hard boots-on-the-ground work by CIA operativesand billions of dollars given to attempt to build a "resistance" to the "brutal dictator" they installed finally coming to fruition, and thefoamy-mouthed Pentagon WarLords finally getting to dust-off the Libya-plan and get that game on ... (btw, those cocksuckerscouldn't win a game of Risk against two retards & a trained manatee even if you spotted them Asia)

again, now, I don't care and have never been surprised by what the Federal Military will attempt to pull off, and I've never beensurprised at the spectacular ways they have of failing ... and altho I expect them to lie and cover up, and I expect the generalpopulation to buy into it, in private conversations, or in forums like this, I'll always be the first to shout "horseshit" ....

in public, on-the-record stuff, I have no opinion whatsoever, but I'm sure the military is doing what they think best ...which would get past a Truthsayer, because that is the truth; there's not real evil in the world, there's just insanejacklegs with guns and money ... the CIA has a personal score to settle with Gaddafi, the Pentagon wants anotherpuppet government they can control, France & Britain want to appear like they are still relevant in World Affairs ....everybody is looking out for their own interests and their own agenda .... but to hang a "humanitarian" angle on the operation, of saving the little brown people from themselves, seems silly when they are bombing the shit out of anotherlittle brown country ....

"'It became necessary to destroy the town to save it,' a United States major said today. He was talking about the decision by allied commanders to bomb and shell the town regardless of civilian casualties, to rout the Vietcong."

I am not a "libertarian" at all, because like all political labels, the term is fucking meaningless in reality;you are either a Lord, a Slave, or a Soldier in any society under any government Men have ever imposed on other Men;

the only political philosophy I subscribe to is Keeping Your Fucking Head Down & Playing the System to Your Advantage;

Free will does not exist when you can have any color you want as long as it is black, military operations will always be a political act, slaves always insist they are free.

also, I suppose that people who have not read all the shit I fling up on this boardmight also occasionally catch (and be offended) by my use of the term "mexicans",as in: then I told the fucking mexicans to quit bitching about the satellite TeeVeeand get the goddamn ditch dug ...

so, in explanation:

#1 - fuck off.no, really, fuck off and die ...

#2- they refer to themselves as "mexicans" (except the one kid who got brainwashed by that "La Raza"bullshit & thinks he's an Aztec Prince ... he keeps most of that to himself, now; guess he got tired ofhearing all the others say "Hey, shut the fuck up, you stoopid mexican." ....

#2a - here in West Texas (and elsewhere) "mexican" is a racial description, not a nationality ...if we (whites, blacks, browns)(ain't a whole lotta yellows here) are talking about a Mexico mexican,we say "Mexico mexican" ....

#2b - traditionally tho, going back to the days of Stephen F. Austin, a pretty young mexican girlis referred to (by white men) as a "Spanish Girl" ..... (this in itself is a subtle left-over of the Englishimposed racism going back to the 1600s, of discouraging white men to see black & indian women aspotential sexual partners ... calling her a "Spanish Girl" makes her white enough to fuck (but not marry))(the spanish, of course, had a different idea, believing that God had sent them to the New World to makeCatholics out of all the indians; having sex and children with the indian girls was just fine, and marryingthem was okay, too, if you were lower class ... thus was born a New Race of People ... them mexicans ...)

#3 - fuck off.

#4 - the man who is officially listed as my "ranch foreman" is probably my last best living friend;I've known him for over thirty years; he's pretty sure his family has been in texas for over 200 years,thinks some of his relatives fought as texicans for the republic, but has never really researched it ....doesn't seem to care much, which just irritates the fuck out of me .... when I started specualtingabout buying land, this man was the one who pointed out some of the areas here where good ranchland could be had, cheap (relatively) and actually acted as my agent for the first section purchased ...

he had a shitload of kids, but two of the boys had become serious ranch-hands, and when it came timeto run some stock, I trusted him & his boys enough to just throw money at them ... his wife passed awayright about the time I was thinking of either building on some of the land, or finding a place with a houseand barns already on it ... I bought the place I live now, while still up in Arkansas sitting on the nuclearplant, and he moved himself and some of kids out here ....

there is a full-time crew living and working here, and we bring in part-timers as needed; these are allthe friends and relatives of the foreman's sons, and they're all mexicans .... they are all my mexicans,and at this point, they are all my family ...

#5 - also, mexicans is as good as I can get, the guv'mint done took all the negros away ...

#6 - fuck off. cocksuckers.

................ I exist only to amuse myself ................

I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know how to fully interact with people. ~ "Spice Grandson" (Bryon Merrit) 08 June 2008

I met a guy a while back. His family has been in Texas ever since it was a part of Mexico. He speaks Spanish, and I guess they all speak Spanish, but he says they refer to themselves as Texanos. Not Americans, and not Mexicans. I thought you might find this interesting. I know I did.

the spanish, of course, had a different idea, believing that God had sent them to the New World to makeCatholics out of all the indians; having sex and children with the indian girls was just fine, and marryingthem was okay, too, if you were lower class ... thus was born a New Race of People ... them mexicans ...

AMMAN, Aug 4 Reuters) - Syrian troops killed at least 45 civilians in a tank assault to occupy the center of the besieged city of Hama, an activist said on Thursday, seeking to crush an uprising against President Bashar al-Assad's rule.

Thousands of civilians were fleeing the city, a bastion of protest against 41 years of Assad family rule surrounded by a ring of steel of troops with tanks and heavy weapons.

Electricity and communications have been cut off and as many as 130 people have been killed in a four-day military assault since Assad, from Syria's minority Alawite sect, sent troops into the city on Sunday, residents and activists say.

Last week, tanks also moved into the eastern provincial capital of Deir al-Zor and the town of Albu Kamal on the border with Iraq's Sunni heartland. Both towns have witnessed large pro-democracy protests.

"The security apparatus thinks it can wrap this uprising up by relying on the security option and killing as many Syrians as it thinks it will take," a diplomat in Damascus said.

"Tanks are firing their guns at residential buildings in Hama and Deir al-Zor after the two cities were left for weeks to protest peacefully. This is the first time the regime is using tanks with such targeted ferocity," the diplomat said.

In a sign that the assault on Hama and other Syrian cities may be galvanizing the international community against Assad, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, whose country had resisted U.N. condemnation of Syria, said Assad risked a sad fate if he failed to reconcile with his opponents.

His comments came a day after Russia, which has a naval base in Syria, backed a U.N. Security Council statement condemning "the widespread violations of human rights and the use of force against civilians by the Syrian authorities."

The United States extended sanctions against Syria on Thursday to include Mohammad Hamsho, a prominent Syrian businessman and member of parliament who it said was a front for the interests of Assad and his brother Maher, who directly commands ultra-loyalist forces from the minority Alawite sect, the same sect as Assad, spearheading military assaults.

The move by the U.S. Treasury, its fourth round of sanctions against Syria, fell short of calls by Syrian dissidents and some U.S. senators to target Syria's oil and gas sector to put some muscle behind the sanctions, which have had little impact on Assad's tactics.

The European Union also agreed to further extend sanctions on Syria. Germany said it would ask the United Nations to send a special envoy to Syria to increase pressure on Assad and Austrian Foreign Minister Michael Spindelegger said Syria was increasingly isolated.

"Given the regime's cold-blooded violence against its own people, the front of countries holding their protective hand over the Syrian leadership is starting to crumble," he said.

In Hama, residents said tanks had advanced into the main Orontes Square, the site of some of the biggest protests against Assad, who succeeded his father Hafez al-Assad in 2000. Snipers spread onto rooftops and into a nearby citadel.

An activist who managed to leave the city told Reuters that 40 people were killed by heavy machinegun fire and shelling by tanks in al-Hader district on Wednesday and early on Thursday.

The activist, who gave his name as Thaer, said five more people, including two children, were killed as they were trying to leave Hama by car on the al-Dhahirya highway.

MEMORIES OF 1982

Hama has been one of the main centers of protest against Assad, reviving memories of 1982 when his father sent troops to crush Islamist protests in the city, killing thousands of people and razing much of al-Hader district.

In Deir al-Zor, residents said they were told by security personnel that the army would soon enter the city, a move which tribes in the rebellious province would likely confront.

Syrian authorities say the army has gone into Hama to confront armed groups trying to take control of the city. They say at least eight soldiers have been killed by gunmen.

The contrasting accounts from activists and state media are difficult to verify because Syria has barred most independent media since the beginning of the protests.

Rights groups said the lack of communication with the besieged city was alarming. There were also some reports that water supplies were blocked.

"Hama has been cut off. We're in the dark and of course we're very worried," said Human Rights Watch's Beirut-based senior Syria and Lebanon researcher, Nadim Houry.

Rami Abdel Rahman of the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said 1,500 families managed to flee Hama in the last 48 hours, heading mainly to the east or the west of the besieged city. Other activists said authorities had blocked the road north toward Aleppo and Turkey.

"We are talking about hundreds of families leaving Hama since yesterday by cars and pick-up trucks," said one activist in touch with the families which escaped.

Abdel Rahman of the Syrian Observatory said seven other people were killed across Syria during protests on Wednesday night, three of them in the southern Deraa province and two in the Damascus district of Midan.

Alongside the military crackdown, Assad has lifted a state of emergency in place for nearly 50 years and promised constitutional changes to open Syria up to multi-party politics, but human rights campaigners and Assad's opponents say the moves were largely on paper and did not alter the Syrian police state.

On Thursday he formally approved laws passed by the cabinet last week allowing the formation of political parties other than his ruling Baath Party and regulating elections to parliament, which has so far been a rubber-stamp assembly.

"The latest reforms announced by President Assad are in principle a step in the right direction, but only if they are genuinely put into effect," European Union foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton said. "We are still waiting for previously announced reforms to be implemented."

A new report by the Syrian National Human Rights Organization, headed by dissident Amman Qarabi, said a campaign of arbitrary arrests and abductions by secret police across Syria has intensified in the last few days, with over 12,000 people in jail since the uprising.

The report said two brothers, Wael and Bassel Skaf, were arrested two days ago after they took part in a demonstration demanding Assad's overthrow in the resort town of Zabadani near the border with Lebanon after nightly Ramadan prayers.

"The scale of arrests in Zabadani were unprecedented," Qarabi said. "The Skaf brothers are Christian. Their arrest contradicts the regime's argument about militant Muslims terrorising Zabadani."

Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.~Pink Snowman

"Unlike [Egypt's Hosni] Mubarak who came down in 18 days, it takes longer for Assad to fall because of the way the regime is structured," Tabler said. Assad is a member of Syria's Alawite minority, as are the commanders of the Syrian military and security forces. Thus, in Syria, "you don't have an autonomous military who can oust the ruling family," as they had in Egypt and Tunisia. "It will take longer."

CAIRO (Reuters) - Egyptians frustrated with military rule battled police in the streets again on Tuesday as the generals scrambled to cope with the cabinet's proffered resignation after bloodshed that has jolted plans for Egypt's first free election in decades.

In a stinging verdict on nine months of army control, London-based rights group Amnesty International accused the ruling Supreme Council of the Armed Forces (SCAF) of brutality sometimes exceeding that of former President Hosni Mubarak.

Thousands of people defied tear gas wafting across Cairo's Tahrir Square, the hub of protests swelling since Friday into the gravest challenge yet to the generals who replaced Mubarak and who seem reluctant to relinquish their power and privilege.

Protesters in Tahrir carried an open coffin containing the white-shrouded body of one of the 36 people killed so far.

The army council, headed by a 76-year-old field marshal who served as Mubarak's defence minister for two decades, held talks with politicians on the crisis, in which at least 36 people have been killed and more than 1,250 wounded, medical officials say.

Field Marshal Mohamed Hussein Tantawi would address the nation later in the day, state television said.

The United States, which gives Egypt's military $1.3 billion a year in aid, has called for restraint on all sides and urged Egypt to proceed with elections due to start on Monday despite the violence, a stance broadly echoed by many European leaders.

Protesters waving flags and singing skirmished with security forces in and around Tahrir Square, where banners read "Save Egypt from thieves and the military". As pungent clouds of tear gas set off stampedes, activists chanted "Stay, stay, stay".

Youth groups have called for a mass turnout later in the day to press demands for the military to give way to civilian rule now, rather than according to its own ponderous timetable, which could keep it in power until late 2012 or early 2013.

TANTAWI UNDER FIRE

"Come to Tahrir, tomorrow we will overthrow the field marshal!" youthful protesters chanted, referring to Field Marshal Mohamed Hussein Tantawi, the army commander.Tantawi and his colleagues will not formally accept the resignation of Prime Minister Essam Sharaf's government until they have agreed on a new premier, an army source said.

It was not clear if the army would try to replace the whole cabinet -- a tough challenge with polling only days away -- or just ditch the unpopular interior and information ministers.

The army council has vowed to proceed with the parliamentary election due to start on Monday, but the bloody chaos in the heart of Cairo and elsewhere has thrown plans into disarray.

The powerful Muslim Brotherhood, which anticipates a strong showing in the election, was among five parties at the crisis talks with the military council. Three presidential candidates were also there, but a fourth, Mohamed ElBaradei, stayed away.

"Elections must be held on time and we will push for a specific timetable for the transitional period," Saad el-Katatni, secretary-general of the Brotherhood's newly formed Freedom and Justice Party, told Reuters by telephone.

Presidential candidate Amr Moussa echoed the call for the election to go ahead, but said a presidential vote should take place no more than six months after the lengthy process of polling for both houses of parliament is completed in March.

Under the army's plans, parliament would name a constituent assembly to draw up a constitution within six months that would then go to a referendum. Only after that would a new president be elected to take back the powers of the military council.

The liberal Wafd party, represented at the talks, called in a statement for a two-week delay in the start of elections.Youthful protest groups were staying away from the meeting between politicians and generals.

"The revolutionary youth are not holding dialogue with the military council. The dialogue is going on in Tahrir square, not behind closed doors with the generals," said Khaled Mardeya, a spokesman for the January 25 Revolution Coalition.

DEMAND FOR CIVILIAN RULE

Anger against the military council exploded this month after a cabinet proposal to set out constitutional principles that would permanently shield the army from civilian oversight.

Some foes of military rule have demanded that the generals make way immediately for a national salvation government of civilians to manage Egypt's transition to democracy.

Beyond Cairo, violence has accompanied protests in the northern city of Alexandria and Ismailiya, on the Suez Canal, but nationwide demonstrations against army rule have yet to match the vast numbers that turned out to topple Mubarak.

In Tahrir, activists sought to control access to the square. Volunteers on motorbikes ferried casualties from clashes with security forces firing tear gas near the Interior Ministry.

The mood among protesters was determined. "The real revolution begins from today,' said Taymour Abu Ezz, 58. "Nobody will leave until the military council leaves power."Ahmad Gad, 20, a student, said: "The people feel that Hosni Mubarak is still ruling. In Tunisia they already had elections."

Holding a sign that read "Mubarak, leave", a 50-year-old English teacher named Mohammad Abdullah said: "He's still in power. He just moved his HQ from the palace to the hospital."

Mubarak, 83, on trial since July for ordering the killing of protesters, has spent months in a military hospital in Cairo.

Political uncertainty has gripped Egypt since Mubarak's fall, while sectarian clashes, labour unrest, gas pipeline sabotage and a gaping absence of tourists have paralysed the economy and prompted a widespread yearning for stability.

Several banks in central Cairo were closed on Tuesday as a precaution against looting, the state news agency said.

Amnesty International said the military had made only empty promises to improve human rights. Military courts had tried thousands of civilians and emergency law had been extended.

Torture had continued in army custody, and there were consistent reports of security forces employing armed "thugs" to attack protesters, it added in a report.

Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.~Pink Snowman

the military desperately clinging to their newfound post-Mubarak power

this is a mis-leading statement - the Egyptian military has held all power since Nassar ... all Presidents of the UARhave been top-ranking officers ... Hosni was the commander of the Air Force, and I think he was the nationalDefense Secretary before becoming vice-president under Sadat ... there has never been a civilian government in Egypt.and I doubt if there is one now ...

................ I exist only to amuse myself ................

I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know how to fully interact with people. ~ "Spice Grandson" (Bryon Merrit) 08 June 2008

the military desperately clinging to their newfound post-Mubarak power

this is a mis-leading statement - the Egyptian military has held all power since Nassar ... all Presidents of the UARhave been top-ranking officers ... Hosni was the commander of the Air Force, and I think he was the nationalDefense Secretary before becoming vice-president under Sadat ... there has never been a civilian government in Egypt.and I doubt if there is one now ...

Point taken. This is interesting because I remember as the protests escalated and police were doing their oppression-thing, the military was met with great cheer from the protestors as they arrived on scene in apparent solidarity with the uprising. I wonder what the significance of that was, considering the history you highlighted here.

Hosni went rogue ... the military had no intention of allowing an actual civilian government exert real power;(I believe they still do not) ... as long as the hand-picked senior military officer sitting in the President's seatwent along with The Program (as the Generals saw it) the military allowed the Egyptian government to appearto function with a free hand ... (remember what happened to the last guy?)

North Americans are used to living in a society where the civilian government actually controls the military,as opposed to the way it's done damn near everywhere else in the world ... it's hard for them to see theway a "democratic government" can be the willing pawn of a Ruling Military Elite ...

of course, I would argue that the United States is in an even worse state - the vast, vast majorityDO believe that the civilian government is in charge of the military ... but I haven't seen any realproof of that since the Spring of 1945 ... and if push came to shove, I think you Canadians woulddiscover that your military answers only to those horse-faced German Pretenders in London-town ....

my argument about all this is very, very simple, and I've touched on it briefly before:I do not see any historical evidence whatsoever to convince me that EVERY form of governmentEVER conceived and implemented by men did not exist ONLY at the convenience of the military ...

................ I exist only to amuse myself ................

I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know how to fully interact with people. ~ "Spice Grandson" (Bryon Merrit) 08 June 2008

SandRider wrote:my argument about all this is very, very simple, and I've touched on it briefly before:I do not see any historical evidence whatsoever to convince me that EVERY form of governmentEVER conceived and implemented by men did not exist ONLY at the convenience of the military ...

Got to have tax-payers to build bombs and bullets?

Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.~Pink Snowman

I believe the US is a Republic and we the people control the government and by proxy the military. The military here does things under their mandate at times that is classified as 'protecting the people, defending the constitution against all enemies, and national security', but our military is not run by robots at any level. Sooner or later things are corrected by exposure, conscience, or otherwise to confirm that. Not a perfect system, but Ill take over the majority of the worlds governmental setups.

As for the history of Egypt, spot on SR, grew up threw all that crap Sadot and company, my dad talked about it all the time.

The remainder of the world, I would agree that is a predominant theme, military is behind the power. Its making life difficult for lots of folks these days. What to do about it? support (morale not monetary)those in other countries who are trying to engage change for the better.