The pilot of an Apache gunship, who flew to the rescue of U.S. soldiers nearly overrun at a remote outpost in Afghanistan last weekend, told ABC News today that he had "never seen that large of a force" attacking coalition troops in Afghanistan.

By the time Warrant Officer Ross Lewellen and Warrant Officer Chad Bardwell arrived over the embattled outpost, dubbed Camp Keating, it was in flames and dozens of insurgents could be seen on the camp's perimeter.

When the battle was over and the fire extinguished, many who survived had nothing left "except the clothes off their backs and the weapons in their hands," one soldier told ABC News.

Didn't we used to have C-130's over there? The planes that can lay down an obscene amount of firepower? I'm thinking that the enemy didn't use massed forces back when the Rules of Engagement allowed us to whup serious ass.

But I guess things changed. Well ... I think the hope and change isn't working.

One small problem, there is a 1980 UN convention against the use of napalm against civilian targets. The US is not a signatory but you can bet the first report of a baby with napalm burns is something the current administration will not allow to happen. And you can bet the tallies know this and will drag a few civilians along just for the psyops value.

12
posted on 10/08/2009 6:14:00 PM PDT
by NonValueAdded
("The President has borrowed more money to spend to less effect than anybody on the planet. " Steyn)

Remember the dem mantra, that the first Gulf War was a failure and a fraud because Bush I did not finish the job and get Sadam?
It was to any thinking person just an effective exercise in dem politics for the morons in America.
Remember when Bush II finished the job and the dems said that was a disaster because Afghanistan was the proper war to pursue?
It was to any thinking person just an effective exercise in dem politics for the morons in America.
Our enemies are not morons, they understand our new government is neither fit nor commited to pursue this war.
Americas enemies are emboldened and already savor victory.

One small problem, there is a 1980 UN convention against the use of napalm against civilian targets. The US is not a signatory but you can bet the first report of a baby with napalm burns is something the current administration will not allow to happen. And you can bet the tallies know this and will drag a few civilians along just for the psyops value.

South Vietnam was 62,000 square miles. Afghanistan is four times as big at 252,000 square miles, much of which is extremely mountainous and challenges even modern warplanes. That is, the enemy on high peaks know the helos must fly in a certain valley to come to support a besieged forward operating base.

Think abou the number of troops and warplanes we had in VN, at 62,000 square miles, compared to a much smaller number in Afghanistan, at 252,000 square miles.

Those combat support aircraft are spread mighty thin, and flying times are long.

For combat casualties, this is BAD. It’s like being shot in West Texas, and being medevaced to Houston for treatment, via a slow helicopter. In Iraq, from wounding to hospital is measured in minutes, in Afghanistan, it may be HOURS.

....the Taliban is starting to get it together now...just like the Communists did in VietNam...I expect even larger co-ordinated attacks in the future....it’s worth remembering that towards the end of the Russian involvement, they had whole battalions being ambushed...it takes considerable military capability to do that.

This base was set up against all rules of warfare since time imemorium...He who controls the high land, wins the day.

These soldiers were set up in the bottom of a bowl - with steep wooded hills close in on sides...for the enemy, like shooting fish in a barrel.

It was so remote, and dangerous, their supplies (they had no running water, no way to get in and out except on ‘ducks in a shooting gallery’ goat paths - supplies dropped several foot hours away, meaning to get them necessitated going outside the wire - and humping everything back on their backs - all the while, exposed.

The “base”, additionally, was located between a village and a mosque - both off limits to fire upon, even if taking fire from.

THey fought through the day, it appears, with NO air support? - as it was deemed to ‘risky’ - so they died and were wounded and while under fire, gave and administered blood to their woundedr buddies...and waited, and waited for help.

When help finally came, the KIA and the WIA were heloed out - but the remaining (56) ‘stayed to fight on.” I say BULL. Fight on with WHAT? The base had been burned - everything was lost except the clothes on their backs and the rifles in their hands. Anyone want to hazard a guess as to how many of those guns, ammo wise, went ‘black”?

I suspicion they were given no choice but to stay behind as, I suspicion again, there was either no more available helos to take them out for hours later and/or it was now daylight again and ‘too dangerous’ for rescue.

Can you imagine what they went through, seeing their buddies fall, one by one by one... and then, when they finally get some help (I suspicion they got NO air cover for many hours into the fight - as, it seems, heretofore, that once air cover comes in and starts pounding the mountainsides, the taliban disburse rapidly = \\and then, after the KIA and MIA are effaced out, they are left until such time as helos and rescue were finally allowed.

Bottom line, the 56 survivors of a hell they should never have been in a position to have had to go through, did get out - with everything they owned destroyed, except, as reported, the clothes on their backs and guns in their hands.

All personal belongings were destroyed. They lost everything. But the army is attempting to get them new uniforms. Hip hip - puke

They needed everything from underclothes, all personal hygiene supplies, cold weather gear - remember, they are in the high Hindu Kush mts. = some of the most severe winter weather on earth - and no comfy barracks, etc., - They needed heavy wool socks, wool helmet liners, balaclavas, gloves, long johns, , fleece blankets, etc etc...and they lost their iPods, DVDs, and other little things that helped keep them sane.

That's a lotta stuff to replace quickly for 56 soldiers.

And with what they hear from back stateside, they didn't feel that confident that anyone knew or cared. (This little firebase, how and where it was set up, was not the only one - it's been par for the course in the Nuristan and Kunar right along...for years.)

Guess what - within 3 days of flurry - everything on the list has been raised and is one the way.

WE KNOW. WE CARE.

WE need to tell the slackers in DC to get off their ignorant duffs - we will not let this continue

39
posted on 10/08/2009 6:49:53 PM PDT
by maine-iac7
("He has the right to criticize who has the heart to help" LINCOLN)

Lest we forget - we won this one. Big. You want to fight Americans, expect a 20-to-one kill ratio or better.

Every single one of these needs to be answered by a very large raid on the tribal areas that are the sanctuaries. We know where they are. We know who they are. Every time one of these guys leaves for jihad he needs to be thinking he's coming back to a smoking hole or not at all.

...dubbed Camp Keating, it was in flames and dozens of insurgents could be seen on the camp's perimeter. When the battle was over and the fire extinguished, many who survived had nothing left "except the clothes off their backs and the weapons in their hands," one soldier told ABC News.

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