Re: Underhung TC Nomz

Originally Posted by wickedwitt

Why doesn't SSA design one?

Ciaonzo...send me one...

The SSA Gcon was initially underhung in prototype stages. The issue is the market is ever shrinking for something like this, and for an American made brand, margins are extremely tight. The amount of steel needed in the top plate of a substantial underhung subwoofer is pretty high, making the costs high.

With the shorter/smaller coil, power handling/thermal limts are more of an issue in today's market of cheap amplifier power where people just want to throw more and more power at their speakers. All of that means, that with the sheer cost of steel rising, and our products being machined here in the USA and USA steel, it would be very costly. The market is also very power to price association driven, meaning most people perceive the price to be dictated by the power handling.

For example, we know that a sub woofer that has the power handling of an SSA Gcon, but the price tag of an SSA Xcon, is not going to sell very well at all. We could lather it up in snake oil and BS to magically justify the cost through markeneering, but that is not the way we do things.

Yes, there will be a potential for small improvements on the THD and inductance over a comparatively perceived overhung model, but not enough to make the money work. We do not have a big kitty of cash to play with to try something like that at this time. The power handling could always be offset a little by going with a higher number of layers or slightly taller underhung coil, but that would cause a substantial jump in the top plate steel needs. The bigger the underhung coil, the bigger the gap, the bigger the top plate, the bigger the price, for moderate power handling gains. Hope that explains why the Gcon moved to an overhung design in our business model.

Re: Underhung TC Nomz

Good looking driver from what I can tell. Shamefully, I think it's the relatively low power handling found with the smaller underhung coil that turns most away.

I want to vomit every time I see someone basing their choice of driver simply off of power handling. But the I remember to laugh.

Exactly. It will take a very long time, or heck it may never happen, to get people out of the mindset of just looking at power handling and being so mentally locked into needing to match it to power output rattings of their amplifiers.

Re: Underhung TC Nomz

Originally Posted by denim

The SSA Gcon was initially underhung in prototype stages. The issue is the market is ever shrinking for something like this, and for an American made brand, margins are extremely tight. The amount of steel needed in the top plate of a substantial underhung subwoofer is pretty high, making the costs high.

With the shorter/smaller coil, power handling/thermal limts are more of an issue in today's market of cheap amplifier power where people just want to throw more and more power at their speakers. All of that means, that with the sheer cost of steel rising, and our products being machined here in the USA and USA steel, it would be very costly. The market is also very power to price association driven, meaning most people perceive the price to be dictated by the power handling.

For example, we know that a sub woofer that has the power handling of an SSA Gcon, but the price tag of an SSA Xcon, is not going to sell very well at all. We could lather it up in snake oil and BS to magically justify the cost through markeneering, but that is not the way we do things.

Yes, there will be a potential for small improvements on the THD and inductance over a comparatively perceived overhung model, but not enough to make the money work. We do not have a big kitty of cash to play with to try something like that at this time. The power handling could always be offset a little by going with a higher number of layers or slightly taller underhung coil, but that would cause a substantial jump in the top plate steel needs. The bigger the underhung coil, the bigger the gap, the bigger the top plate, the bigger the price, for moderate power handling gains. Hope that explains why the Gcon moved to an overhung design in our business model.

Re: Underhung TC Nomz

Originally Posted by denim

Exactly. It will take a very long time, or heck it may never happen, to get people out of the mindset of just looking at power handling and being so mentally locked into needing to match it to power output rattings of their amplifiers.

And there's so much more to that line of thinking that serves to penalize that whole bunch. Between the obnoxiously over-normalized (compressed to lifelessness) recordings of today, and keeping the volume knob right at the point of amplifier clipping and being well past the point of having any clean stroke left, they never experience explosive dynamics or just the piece of mind that headroom has to offer.

I'm just old, too.

Originally Posted by audioholic

Saying "clipping doesn't kill speakers" is a half-truth at best. Technically no, clipping itself does not hurt the speaker. But in clipping your amp, you can easily create a situation that WILL kill the speaker. Was the squared waveform the DIRECT cause of the failure? No. In the end, the answer is, always has been, and can only be... heat kills speakers. BUT, clipping increases heat generation, sometimes by a drastic amount. So to start a thread simply to state that clipping does not hurt speakers is, again, a half-truth at best.

Re: Underhung TC Nomz

Did someone say XBL?

Originally Posted by ducatipaso

15inch subs can't play fast beats, they take more power and that taxes the vehicles electrical system. You will wake up and "hear" then see the light at the end of the tunnel and it will be 3 10's pounding so hard you wont even open your trunk or turn your system on because you 15's will sound sloppy & weak.

Originally Posted by benbenondatrack

stfu lesbo.why are you worried about me so much? you must want to date me ya little cookie monster but i dont even like sweets. your just a cup full of ice, dirt dead nasty azz ice...without the water.

Re: Underhung TC Nomz

Give 'em time to come into their own, they need a decent break-in period. They sound great right off, but they sound better as they loosen up.

Originally Posted by audioholic

Saying "clipping doesn't kill speakers" is a half-truth at best. Technically no, clipping itself does not hurt the speaker. But in clipping your amp, you can easily create a situation that WILL kill the speaker. Was the squared waveform the DIRECT cause of the failure? No. In the end, the answer is, always has been, and can only be... heat kills speakers. BUT, clipping increases heat generation, sometimes by a drastic amount. So to start a thread simply to state that clipping does not hurt speakers is, again, a half-truth at best.

Re: Underhung TC Nomz

Give 'em time to come into their own, they need a decent break-in period. They sound great right off, but they sound better as they loosen up.

Good to know. Kinda figured that given their size. And you run them free air in the doors (doors dampened and sealed of course), right? I had seen that they shine in a really small enclosure and was worried I'd have to build inside the door.

Originally Posted by ducatipaso

15inch subs can't play fast beats, they take more power and that taxes the vehicles electrical system. You will wake up and "hear" then see the light at the end of the tunnel and it will be 3 10's pounding so hard you wont even open your trunk or turn your system on because you 15's will sound sloppy & weak.

Originally Posted by benbenondatrack

stfu lesbo.why are you worried about me so much? you must want to date me ya little cookie monster but i dont even like sweets. your just a cup full of ice, dirt dead nasty azz ice...without the water.

Re: Underhung TC Nomz

Originally Posted by gckless

Good to know. Kinda figured that given their size. And you run them free air in the doors (doors dampened and sealed of course), right? I had seen that they shine in a really small enclosure and was worried I'd have to build inside the door.

Yeah, mine are free air. A sealed enclosure certainly has it's merits, and they will do well in that application as well, but it's not necessary.

Originally Posted by audioholic

Saying "clipping doesn't kill speakers" is a half-truth at best. Technically no, clipping itself does not hurt the speaker. But in clipping your amp, you can easily create a situation that WILL kill the speaker. Was the squared waveform the DIRECT cause of the failure? No. In the end, the answer is, always has been, and can only be... heat kills speakers. BUT, clipping increases heat generation, sometimes by a drastic amount. So to start a thread simply to state that clipping does not hurt speakers is, again, a half-truth at best.

Re: Underhung TC Nomz

I forget who, someone asked if the coil was able to leave the gap. It certainly can and I said I would post a pic of it (hard, lol). The fringe field extends well beyond the physical top plate dimensions, and even though there's less of it and it's comparatively weaker, it doesn't mean it's weak, lol. Take that, plus the current being dumped into the coil, and there's still lots of motor force and it's very easy to propel the coil straight out of the gap. Surprisingly, even at this excursion there is only very mild harmonic distortion being created by the motor, it's mostly the suspension before eventually locking up. Normally underhing designs are not suspension-limited, lol. Beasts, for sure.

Originally Posted by audioholic

Saying "clipping doesn't kill speakers" is a half-truth at best. Technically no, clipping itself does not hurt the speaker. But in clipping your amp, you can easily create a situation that WILL kill the speaker. Was the squared waveform the DIRECT cause of the failure? No. In the end, the answer is, always has been, and can only be... heat kills speakers. BUT, clipping increases heat generation, sometimes by a drastic amount. So to start a thread simply to state that clipping does not hurt speakers is, again, a half-truth at best.

Re: Underhung TC Nomz

And I'll stop post whoring with these final ass shots.

Originally Posted by audioholic

Saying "clipping doesn't kill speakers" is a half-truth at best. Technically no, clipping itself does not hurt the speaker. But in clipping your amp, you can easily create a situation that WILL kill the speaker. Was the squared waveform the DIRECT cause of the failure? No. In the end, the answer is, always has been, and can only be... heat kills speakers. BUT, clipping increases heat generation, sometimes by a drastic amount. So to start a thread simply to state that clipping does not hurt speakers is, again, a half-truth at best.

Re: Underhung TC Nomz

Originally Posted by Ray21

That polished pole vent is like a bleached asshole. lol

lmao

Does look nice. No peener touch, yet. lol

Originally Posted by audioholic

Saying "clipping doesn't kill speakers" is a half-truth at best. Technically no, clipping itself does not hurt the speaker. But in clipping your amp, you can easily create a situation that WILL kill the speaker. Was the squared waveform the DIRECT cause of the failure? No. In the end, the answer is, always has been, and can only be... heat kills speakers. BUT, clipping increases heat generation, sometimes by a drastic amount. So to start a thread simply to state that clipping does not hurt speakers is, again, a half-truth at best.

Re: Underhung TC Nomz

Originally Posted by denim

So based on this, underhung/overhung has nothing to do with the actual motor, but only the coil? I hear people all the time saying underhung motor. Not saying it's correct, but I was led to believe it was almost solely based on the motor as well.

Originally Posted by ducatipaso

15inch subs can't play fast beats, they take more power and that taxes the vehicles electrical system. You will wake up and "hear" then see the light at the end of the tunnel and it will be 3 10's pounding so hard you wont even open your trunk or turn your system on because you 15's will sound sloppy & weak.

Originally Posted by benbenondatrack

stfu lesbo.why are you worried about me so much? you must want to date me ya little cookie monster but i dont even like sweets. your just a cup full of ice, dirt dead nasty azz ice...without the water.