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Ya, those look about right to me! Arrows. Let me be perfectly honest about arrows and bow shooting…………………………..CONFUSING!…………………………….

I have learned that the more I know about shooting a bow the more I want to know about shooting a bow. And the more I know about the physics of shooting that arrow from that bow, the more I want to know about the physics of the arrow being shot from that bow. I want to know what the effect the string has on the flight of the arrow, the effect it has on the tips of the bow itself and the dynamics of the “what if” I pluck the string to my right….to my left….to my up…to my down….(I’m a pretty good little plucker). I’ve said it before…there is a whole lot more to shooting a bow and arrow than meets the eye….never look the point of the arrow right in the eye….

We all know the internet is FULL of good stuff. There is something for EVERYONE on it and I for one use it alot! I try and share as much as I can with you as well and I hope some of it has been useful to you. But there is ONE big thing missing and maybe it is my calling to fill in this gap….NOWHERE is there a chart, a graph, a youtube video or anything that asks….Hey dude! Ya YOU! What bow weight are you shooting? What is your draw length? What kind of arrow shaft do you like to shoot (wood, carbon, aluminum, titanium, fiberglas, ford, chevy)? What is the type of string you shoot on your bow (fast flight, dacron, toolie root)? Are you shooting a compound bow? Recurve? Longbow? Sling shot? NOWHERE is there the question about “how long have you been shooting a bow”! Do you shoot using a release? Three fingers under? Split finger? What’s your mothers maiden name? None of that!!!!

So, after 15 months of shooting my bow and arrows….I’m still not sure I’m shooting the arrow I should be shooting with my bow. Maybe it is part of the learning curve being instilled by those who actually know. My initiation so to speak. Rather than dunking me in a dunking tank filled with pepsi rather than beer, I am being initiated this way. I think others feel the same way. AND I think that is why a lot of “traditional” bow shooters break ranks and pick up the compound bows that have the little wheels helping with the “let off” and the sights that help with “aiming”….all the big boys shoot those bows and know exactly what spine weight arrows to shoot, exactly what vanes to have on the nock end, what points to have on the leading edge. But with us traditional guys, it is all up to us to figure it out. Go to the arrow/bow store and look around….300 spine arrows are everywhere….fancy triggered releases for a nominal fee….strings that are guaranteed to “fit” your bow. Charts and graphs and pictures of guys and gals with huge trophies and sponsorships abounding everywhere.

Go to a traditional bow shop, tucked back in the corner of the ghetto (low rent) area of the city, suburb, county or remote area on the edge of a wilderness, and you see, Joe Traditional, sitting there making his own string, whittling on his arrows or pulling his new fletchings from the wing of a turkey he just shot that morning. He may even have a set up to knap his next set of arrow heads from the flint rock he picked up while turkey hunting.

I’ve learned in this short period of time, Traditional bow shooters are a little bit of a different breed of cat. They speak softly and always refer to you (and themselves) as a “trad”…short for traditional….shooter. Then eye ball you up and down and look over your stuff. Always there is a comment sent your way to see what knowledge you know about the “old guys” of the sport. Guys like Fred Bear (the Jim Bridger of the group), or Jim Hill. I love it. And of course I know nothing about these guys, but I do love to listen to a couple of “trads” trading stories and telling what I think are outright lies. Trying to convince me (the know nothing new guy) that they know it all and are about to educate (I almost spelled that Edjukate) me on all of this stuff. Which they will and I will try and learn.

OK. So I’m a Trad shooter. One who is going to, hopefully, take his first and probably only mule deer buck using a recurve bow. I need to know what is going to be the “right” arrow to use. I’ve already decided on the broad head. A single bevel made by Badger and probably in right bevel (Now I’m getting somewhere…you don’t have a clue what I’m talking about….gottcha!). 125 Grain! Gottcha agin! And I’m going to be fletched (gottcha) with right helical, right wing barred cock feather and right wing hen feathers in white….gottcha! Damn it is so nice to know what I’m talking about!

But what about the arrow? The shaft!?! Someone please give me “the shaft”, I should be shooting!!!!! I’ve been getting the shaft most of my life, but right now knowing exactly what shaft would be nice. Arrow shafts come in “flexibilities” from “whip sticks” (the kind you hated as a child), to stiff as a board shafts (the kind you order to build your house but come somewhat less stiff than you thought you ordered). They measure these pretty much the same, but record and report them in different ways, depending on the manufacturer. Wood shafts? 10-20, 20-30, 30-40, 40-50, 50-60…or something like that. Aluminum shafts? 1616, 1816, 2016, 2116, 2216…..repeat…. Carbon shafts? 3035, 400, 150, 5575……………OH MY HECK!

And then there are the ends of the shafts. Do I want a screw in point? A glue on point? A glue on nock? A nock that presses into the shaft of the hollow arrow? Do I want fletching made of real turkey feathers or plastic or rubber? How long should those fletchings be? 2 inch? 3 inch? 4 inch? 5 inch? Straight? 1 degree offset? Helical? AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

What happened to the day of Geronimo?

Me.. want.. simple!

And so, my thought on all of this. As a beginning archer. A simple…yes simple…chart that shows me what I want to know. I enter my bow weight as manufactured. In my case 55 pound limbs. I enter my draw length. As measured by pulling my bow back with an arrow hooked to the string and measuring the distance from the string (inside the nock) to the “target” side of the bow (my draw length). I enter my “desired” arrow point weight (100 grains, 125 grains etc.). I enter my desired fletching size and type. (3 inch/4 inch etc., straight, offset, helical). And VOOOOEELLLLA it tells me I need to order and shoot, X in wood, Y in Carbon, Z in Aluminum, Q in Fiberglas and P in my mothers maiden name.

I have been on a couple, well maybe several traditional (trad, get used to it) forums and for the life of me, they are adding much to this confusion. Looking at the arrow spine charts in the books and on line I feel that the spine I should be using is 500 spine for my weight of bow and my draw length, but I’m pushing into the 600 spine zone. So, with adding or decreasing the weight of my point I can soften or stiffen the spine until my bow likes it. (Sort of like having a new “one year old pit bull dog”. You keep feeding it with different stuff until it quits biting you and likes what you are feeding it). But lately I have found this one Trad forum where the guys/gals are shooting 600 spine arrows out of their 40 pound bows and 200 grain points up front and getting exceptional results down range! THAT CAN’T HAPPEN FOLKS! NOT FROM WHAT I’VE READ! NOT FROM WHAT I HAVE EXPERIENCED IN MY OWN TIME!!!! NOOOOOOOO!!!!

As I calm myself I ask, how can a 40 pound bow shoot a 600 spine arrow with 200 grains up front and hit anything it is pointed at….NOPE…can’t happen! Not when my bow is shooting roughly 47 pounds and 500 spine arrows with 125 grains up front and doing “pretty good”.

Keep in mind…more weight up front makes the spine of the arrow “weaker”. Will the difference of 7 pounds of draw weight make that much difference in arrow dynamics from a 600 spine and a 500 spine against a 200 grain tip and a 125 grain tip??????

I need a good psychiatrist and someone to make this simple chart and post it on the internet………………………….soon.

I had to get this posted before April 1st or someone would think I was pulling an April Fools joke!

Randy, you say I’m under spined at 500 and that to me means I need to go to a 400 or stiffer. But in your article you say you never advise someone to go “up” in spine, which means I should go to a 600 spine….which is which?

yes you’re right i did said i would never tell someone to go up in spine. im saying to go down in spine. 400 with a 125 tip you would see a big improvement in our groups. i always tell people that its best to be a little heavy in spine then too light. i will send you some pictures. (you might have seen some already) of people shooting under spined arrows and what could happen.

Randy also wrote this, which I copied to post here. He had is telephone number listed but I don’t like to post phone numbers on a world wide web. Here are his other comments:Wynn, you’re right i did say that. i would never tell anyone to go UP in spine. Im saying for you to go down in spine.. It is better being heavier then lighter. A tad stiff will not hurt anything but a too light of and arrow could be disastrous. I can send you some pictures of what it looks like when under spined and the arrow snaps. Most people are just going off of spine and call it good. i used the dynamic spine calculator. You have read this before just a refresher.. http://benzonsoutdoors.blogspot.com/2013/08/arrow-spine.html
a 400 spine and a 125 grain would help tighten your groups. Using the 29″ arrows. i think you should trim your arrow down. 1″ past the riser. If you cut them to say 27″and (no more than 27″). Then the 500 spine would work. If you went 271/4 you would have to drop down to the 400’s. i usually go 1 inch past the riser / handle. With my tip of the arrows.
you could call me also..

Wynn, if you get this 3 times my apologies. i have tried sending it and it keeps kicking me out of your page and not posting it well i can’t see it if it did.
anyway,
you’re right i did say that. i would never tell anyone to go UP in spine. Im saying for you to go down in spine.. It is better being heavier than lighter. A tad stiff will not hurt anything but a too light of and arrow could be disastrous. I can send you some pictures of what it looks like when under spined and the arrow snaps. Most people are just going off of spine and call it good. i used the dynamic spine calculator. You have read this before just a refresher..

a 400 spine and a 125 grain would help tighten your groups if you going to be Using the 29″ arrows. i think you should trim your arrows down. 1″ past the riser. not sure if you could go down to 27″ arrow but If you could cut them to 27″and (no more than 27″). Then the 500 spine would work. If you went 27-1/4 you would have to drop down to the 400’s. i usually go 1 inch past the riser / handle. With my tip of the arrows. cutting your arrows you have now (the .500) will make them stiffer. and you could use them. if you can’t cut them to no more than 27″then go to a .400 spine. you can call me anytime.. would love to chat.

500 is what I shoot. My 55 pound limbs are measured at 28 inches, I shoot 24 inches draw so in reality I’m shooting a 45 pound bow. You have to make sure the manufacture of the arrows are using the same measuring tools to rate the spine of their arrows. Victory arrows are really skinny arrows and for my bow, what they are calling 700 spine are working really good in my bow.