"So shall they fear The LORD from the west, and His glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, The Spirit of The LORD shall lift up a standard against him."
Isaiah 59:19

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

How many times have we found ourselves forgetting things of uttermost importance? How many times have we promised God that we 'got it this time'? I can't tell you the number of times I've lost focus on what's important by allowing cares of this life, self, or any number of other things to distract me. What about as we grow older and (some of us) start forgetting things in the natural process of aging?

The answer lies in John 14:26, The Holy Spirit bringing to our remembrance what which we've been taught and read from God's Word. Speaking for myself only (but I know from life's experience that most everyone is affected in this way) I (we) read scripture, memorize it, meditate upon it, share it, exhort other with it (me, here on this forum), and yet still find myself acting as if I'd never read or hear it. Peter writes in II Peter 1:12 that he would be negligent if he didn't remind us of Biblical truths..."though ye know them..." And in II Peter 3:1 he writes that he's stirring our minds by way of remembrance.

Remember God instructing Israel to take His Laws and get them into their hearts, to instruct their children continually in the ways of The Lord? Remember David when he encountered the giant, he thought back (remembered) to God's hand of deliverance being with him when he was watching his fathers sheep and a lion and bear attacked him?(I Samuel 17:37) Remembering the past gave him hope/faith for dealing with the present.

We can have scripture memorized and still forget key Biblical truths such as, the main message of God's Word, The Gospel, that it's by Grace we're saved; that the message of The Word is to convey and reveal unto us God, and His Glory...and to redeem us unto Himself through Christ Jesus. To reveal our evil hearts and point us to The Saviour to save us.

Wisdom and knowledge slips away if it isn't exercised and put to use, and it's of no use to a man who forgets it, it's as if he never was given such valuable information. Remember the wisdom given in Proverbs 7 concerning sexual sin and the end results, how many people have read it, taught it, and yet fallen prey to it?

Without remembering the hope of The Gospel a person will lose hope in the future. Through remembering we look to God's grace in the past, to give us strength and endurance for the present, and confident hope of redemption in the future. Why is it stressed in God's Word to walk in The Spirit and not in the flesh? Because when we're in the flesh we can't hear what The Holy Spirit is doing, which is reminding us of what we've been taught from The Word of God and how we need to turn back to it(repent). Encouragement from remembering God's faithfulness throughout His Word as well as His faithfulness in our lives in times past is often what's needed to correct our attitudes and get us back on track, so to speak.

Deuteronomy 8:18 commanded Israel to Remember God when things got easy through wealth, why would God have to remind them to remember Him? Because it's human nature to forget, especially when we aren't hurting, or broke, or needing help. We should be a people who continually have His praises upon our lips and His Word in our hearts, remembering what He's told us in the past to equip us for the future.

Bless The LORD, O my soul and all that's within me, Bless His Holy Name...

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

In case you haven't discovered this yet, we NEED Jesus...
Life gets tough, Satan is determined to destroy us, he attacks our minds,
circumstances, health, families, daily in an attempt to cause us to focus
on the our problems rather than God's Word and His promises.
But we have an advocate in Jesus, One in whom we can trust in and run to regardless of what faces us....He cares.

"Casting all your cares upon Him, for He careth for you."
I Peter 5:7

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

No one needs to walk through life confused, lost, and in darkness...God's Word gives understanding, wisdom, direction, and light; resulting in assurance, peace, and joy. Through The Word of God the Gospel of salvation is revealed, leading us unto The Father through Jesus Christ. God's Word is precious and should be cherished, daily.

Temptations/trials/tribulations/tests are all used as part of the refining process to bring us into perfection. With this knowledge in our minds and hearts we can take joy in the midst of them because we know the ways and purpose of God in them. Patience/steadfastness/endurance isn't a characteristic we're born with, nor does it come easily overnight. Yet it's a must in order for us to become what we're called to be in Christ; holy, perfect, godly, overcomers, faithful, and Christ like.

So let me encourage you brothers and sisters in Christ to make it a priority to walk in remembrance of the knowledge that God has designed each and every trial that comes our way for the explicate purpose of bringing us unto perfect in Him...with that hope and expectancy in our hearts we can take joy in them.

"My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;

Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing."
James 1:2-4

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

No one needs to walk through life confused, lost, and in darkness...God's Word gives understanding, wisdom, direction, and light; resulting in assurance, peace, and joy. Through The Word of God the Gospel of salvation is revealed, leading us unto The Father through Jesus Christ. God's Word is precious and should be cherished, daily.

We're in a war as Christians, the war is a spiritual war going on in spiritual realms and in our own minds. Satan is daily assaulting believers with his tactics.
We're told in Ephesians 6 to put on the armour of God, spiritual armour. And in Corinthians we're told that this warfare includes imaginations and thoughts.
He's given us the armour but it's our responsibility to put it on and walk in it.

"For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds.

Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ."
II Corinthians 10:4-5

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

Romans chapter eight; can there be a more encouraging chapter? A book could be written on any of several themes from this chapter written by Paul. But I just want to go through and highlight some truths from scriptures that can really cause a Christian to shout for joy.

First, the knowledge that there is NO condemnation for those in Christ. Then the benefits of walking in The Spirit and what all The Spirit does in the believer. Adoption to be the children of God. We're given hope; we are told that ALL things work to our good; we're shown that God called us according to His own purpose and that He had predestined it and that He also justified us (through Jesus).

Then Paul ends the chapter with this huge confidence builder, NOTHING can separate us from the love of God in Christ. Absolutely nothing; we're His and He loves us, He's taken His own Son and given Him as a sacrifice for our sins. No condemnation! Sons! Justified! Loved!

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

"For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. Romans 8:15

When we think about what God has done for us through Jesus, it really is mind boggling. Here we are sinners in total rebellion to God, undeserving of anything from Him, and absolutely deserving of His wrath and punishment; yet, He sought us out and called us unto Himself. Not only are we justified and have been declared righteous because of Jesus' Righteousness and death, burial, and resurrection; the wrath of God has been appeased against our sins through The Blood of Jesus. He is our propitiation, fully satisfying God's wrath and the punishment we deserve.

But meditate upon this; God has adopted us into His Kingdom. When someone has children of their own they come with the responsibility of loving and caring for, whether they wanted it or not. But when someone adopts they are seeking out because they want the child to love and care for. God sought us out and not only offered up Jesus to forgive and cleanse us, freeing us from His wrath against sin; He has made us His children(sons/daughters); thus giving us the right to address Him as our Father.

Let that sink in...that's Love. But that's what The Word says; God is Love. He so loved us that He gave His only Son as a sacrifice to atone for OUR sins. But His Love didn't stop there(as it could have), He brings us into fully restored relationship with Him as our Father as if we had never been in rebellion and sin. Totally forgiven...Praise His Name.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

There's turmoil and fear sweeping over much of this nation; people are fearful over all the killings going on between law officers and citizens as well as citizens killing law officers. It's a time of distrust between races, between cultures, between classes; and it's been escalating the last few years. Loving our neighbors as ourselves just seems to be a totally abandoned ideology only followed by a few people.(in comparison to the total population)

Psalms 93 speaks of flood water and mighty waves, yet, we are reminded that The Lord reigns in majesty and strength. The Word of God tells us that in the midst of whatever is coming against us(waves and flood waters), He is in control, He is bigger than anything and His testimonies are very sure. We can trust in Him to deliver and save. Our Holy God is mighty in power above all and we can trust in Him.

It's a time like never before to be praying for this nation, the church, and individuals. Surely the time is drawing nigh for the return of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ...even so, come Lord Jesus.

"The LORD on high is mightier than the noise of many waters, yea, than the mighty waves of the sea."Psalms 93

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

"This then IS the message which we have heard of Him, and declare unto you, that God is Light, and in Him is no darkness at all.

If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth.

But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the Blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

John 1:5-8

The Gospel message is the message of truth, of a God who is pure and holy, without any hint of darkness (sin). And it is a call for those who follow Him to walk as He walks. Walking in darkness is allowing secret sins to remain in our hearts and actions while professing to be in fellowship with God. This isn't saying a follower of Christ doesn't ever sin, but that he quickly repents, trusting in God's Mercy as revealed in Christ and His shed blood.(as we're told in the following verses and the first couple verses of second John) We're to live our lives with honest, transparent and repentant hearts before God and each other. That's the only way we can be in fellowship with Him or each other.

This deception is really a mental attitude of heresy, because it's perverting the truth of God's Word. Wrong thinking about our standing before God, which is exactly what a person is doing when they convince themselves that they're walking in fellowship with God while allowing sin to remain in their lives without repentance. The transparency and honesty is how we should live before each other because we know nothing is hidden from God. He isn't fooled for one second, but what about how we're to live before each other? But we can't open our hearts and lives to our brothers and sisters in honesty when we're living deceived lives harboring sins that we haven't brought before The Lord in confession and repentance.

This is an encouragement and exhortation to myself first and to any brother or sister reading, let us RUN to The Light and seek Him in whom there is no darkness to reveal to our hearts and minds by His precious Holy Spirit any darkness that we've not dealt with. He is lovingly waiting to forgive and desires your fellowship and devotion, completely with out reserve.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

I don't share this from a place of perfection but rather from a place of growing in my desire for God. Psalms 37:4 instructs believers to delight ourselves in The Lord...and He shall give us the desires of our hearts. For far too long my use of this scripture was to quote it as a proof text when praying for something I 'wanted or desired'. But I don't think God meant it for that self serving purpose. I believe that He is revealing to us here in this scripture(along with many others)how we come to find true joy in Him, by delighting in Him. So how does a person delight themselves in God? His Word shows us; meditating on His Word, quality time in prayer and fellowship with Him, seeking Him and the relationship Jesus died to restore to us after we had fallen short through our sins. Joy is a fruit of The Spirit that is given from God, we can't produce it of our own volition. Joy is a gift given by God to those who seek after Him with their whole hearts, whose delight is found in Him. It comes through meditation on who God is and what His attributes are, what He did through Jesus at Calvary. As we hunger and seek to behold the Glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ He reveals Himself in scripture. This causes our hearts and minds to rejoice and be glad in Him. Our rejoicing and gladness gives way to praise and adoration. It's here we begin to find joy, because God delights in the praise of His people and He loves to give good things to us... what better gift that 'The Joy of The LORD'.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

I don't share this from a place of perfection but rather from a place of growing in my desire for God. Psalms 37:4 instructs believers to delight ourselves in The Lord...and He shall give us the desires of our hearts. For far too long my use of this scripture was to quote it as a proof text when praying for something I 'wanted or desired'. But I don't think God meant it for that self serving purpose. I believe that He is revealing to us here in this scripture(along with many others)how we come to find true joy in Him, by delighting in Him. So how does a person delight themselves in God? His Word shows us; meditating on His Word, quality time in prayer and fellowship with Him, seeking Him and the relationship Jesus died to restore to us after we had fallen short through our sins. Joy is a fruit of The Spirit that is given from God, we can't produce it of our own volition. Joy is a gift given by God to those who seek after Him with their whole hearts, whose delight is found in Him. It comes through meditation on who God is and what His attributes are, what He did through Jesus at Calvary. As we hunger and seek to behold the Glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ He reveals Himself in scripture. This causes our hearts and minds to rejoice and be glad in Him. Our rejoicing and gladness gives way to praise and adoration. It's here we begin to find joy, because God delights in the praise of His people and He loves to give good things to us... what better gift that 'The Joy of The LORD'.

Hi James,

One of my favourite scriptures, thank you. I see that as we draw close to the Lord, over time His desires become our desires.

Now even though I have been busy over on `Worthy` Christian Forum, sharing some of what I wrote here (in eschatology) I still pop in from time to time.

Psalms 1:2 says that the man who is blessed is the man who delights in God's Word, meditating upon it both day and night. Delight and joy are very closely linked words when we see them in The Word of God. When our desires line up with The Word (yes, when His desires become our desires) we become delighted in Him. We begin to 'see' with our spiritual eyes the glory of God through the revelation of Jesus in Scripture (The Gospel, and what sacrifice was given for our reconciliation unto God) But we mustn't lose sight of the fact that none of this joy/delight/being blessed/desire/seeing eyes comes without God opening our eyes and changing our hearts. It's not through our efforts (though it does require effort, in fact it requires spiritual warfare daily to walk in the joy of The Lord and to delight in Him and His Word both day and night.) it's by His sovereign Grace., but He delights to give these good gifts to His children.

Delight means to affect with great pleasure. The unfolding of God's Word to the heart of a man who is a sinner, saved and humbled by God's Grace and Jesus' sacrifice brings tremendous pleasure and joy...Joy really that's unspeakable, I mean, how do you put into words how it makes the heart feel to understand that which was once hidden but has been freely opened to someone so undeserving? I can't, but I can give thanks and offer praise, I can tell of His great love to all who will listen, I can encourage fellow believers to do the same.

The Joy of The LORD is my strength...

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

It's been around since the Church began, we see it rear it's ugly head in the book of Acts. First the new Gentile believers were filled with joy at the good news of The Gospel and salvation by grace through faith in Jesus; then along came Jews from Jerusalem, still practicing the Law (though unable to keep it themselves), telling them they must be circumcised to be saved. Imagine their joy being sapped away as they wrestled with the two conflicting messages from two different groups men (Paul and the others supposedly from 'the' church in Jerusalem) who professed to be Christian.

Paul didn't waste much time in attacking this undermining of Jesus' work at Calvary (salvation by faith in Him...not faith plus circumcision). He went up to Jerusalem to meet face to face with the other Apostles, laying out the terrible thing being done to new Gentile believers by Jewish followers who were still wanting to follow the works of the Law.

Peter addressed them and stood up against this early cancer against the Body of Christ explaining how God had sent Him to Cornelius (Gentile) and how The Holy Spirit was given them by God. Then James reinforced this truth by reminding of the OT prophesies concerning the Gentiles being brought unto The Lord. This account can be found in Acts chapter fifteen. Imaging the joy the new believers had when the letter that was sent from Jerusalem was read and in which contained nothing about having to be circumcised. The Apostles just told them as Christians they should abstain from fornication (sexual immorality) and blood and strangled foods and foods offered unto idols, which Paul had already taught them that as Christian they should bring forth fruits unto righteousness. (live as examples of Christ and not as they had while living a pagan lifestyle)

It's still an issue in The Body of Christ today. Can and can't do laws and regulations. Heresies and false teachings abound all around believers today. Satan was undermining The Gospel then and he is doing it today. Blue jeans on a woman or Nike shoes on a guy or cooking cakes from boxed ingredients doesn't have anything to do with a persons heart before God. The legalistic laws I've witnessed (and even helped perpetrate upon myself and others) were nothing but a ploy by Satan to hinder Christian growth and to bring condemnation on young, immature, zealous believers. It worked quite well as my memory serves me. It took me many years to understand Grace and get that legalistic form of religion out of my life.(still working on some of the after effects)

Today we sang an old hymn that every believer over 50 knows very well; "It Is Well with My Soul". I couldn't help but rejoice in my heart when the lyrics came on the screen...

"Though Satan should buffet, though trials should come,
Let this blest assurance control,
That Christ hath regarded my helpless estate,
And hath shed His own Blood for my soul.

My sin--Oh, the bliss of this glorious thought--
My sin, not in part but the whole,
Is nailed to The Cross, and I bear it no more,
Praise The Lord, praise The Lord , O my soul."

BTW: William, I remember years ago "ABIDING" wrote how this was one of her favorite songs...I recalled that as I wrote this. God is SO merciful and gracious, salvation provided freely unto us at such a great cost to Him...

[Updated on: Mon, 05 September 2016 06:47]

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

Yes, that is a great song especially when you read about the background and circumstances that were involved when it was written!

The other thing you mentioned --legalism... now that is something that has plagued religion throughout the ages. Even reading the OT one gets the impression that God himself was the author of legalism. However, when we look a bit deeper, and consider those scriptures that show that God was more interested in the heart of the person than outward compliance to regulations, there seems to be an expectation that His people should know better.

I wasn't aware of Spafford's background and the trials his family endured until I did a little reading on him. Amazing faithfulness to God despite all he went through.

Yes, absolutely we should know better. Yet look at Paul's letters to the churches and how often he admonished them concerning legalism; those epistles are as relevant today as when they were written. It's hard for many people to wrap their heads around such a gift as we're given without feeling something should be done to earn it. It is so contrary to our human mind and our thought process, that God would go to that extreme sacrifice to redeem man without requiring something beside faith in Jesus for salvation.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

"And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the Kingdom of God is at hand, repent ye, and believe the Gospel."
Mark 1:15

Jesus said to repent (turn/change mind) and to believe (exercise faith)...the gospel(the good news of The Messiah<Himself> coming to save sinners). He was calling for a change of mind from rejecting Him as The Messiah and Saviour to believing that He was whom He declared Himself to be; to turn from sin unto The Saviour for salvation.

There is a false teaching going around today that says repentance isn't necessary; that it wasn't taught for the 'church'; that repentance only applied to the Jews. This 'cheap grace' goes against God's Word and what was taught throughout The Bible. Repentance goes with faith, you can't have one without the other. You can't believe unto salvation without changing your mind about Jesus (repenting), nor can you repent without believing (having faith). John the Baptist taught repentance; Jesus taught repentance; Peter taught repentance; Paul taught repentance. And they also all taught to believe upon The Lord Jesus Christ for salvation. Paul went to great lengths to expound to followers of Jesus that we're ONLY saved by grace through faith...not of ourselves, it is the gift of God (Eph. 2:8-9). That there is salvation in no other than Jesus Christ. Yet he constantly exhorted followers to turn from/flee/ abstain from sin and anything that would hinder our purpose in life which is to glorify God.

When a person is deceived into thinking all God requires is believing without a changed heart about sin(confession/turning from/grieving when we sin) they are exactly where Satan wants them. Taking grace and using it to excuse an unchanged heart and life is a major deception and false doctrine. Did not James write in James 2:19-20 that even the demons 'believe', but believing without evidence of a new man (changed mind/actions/ fruits of righteousness) is a dead faith.

As has often been pointed out, no amount of good works will save a sinner, yet a sinner who has been saved will produce good works. The evidence of a Christian is a changed life; there will be fruits of the spirit starting to grow (love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, meekness, faith, temperance) and the fruits of the flesh will soon disappear as we grow in godliness/holiness. The fruit of the spirit doesn't instantly become mature (just as fruit growing on trees take time to mature), nor does all fleshly fruit disappear instantly (fleshly sins/habits sometimes require time/prayer/deliverance to die) but as we seek The Lord daily and put to death(mortify) the deeds of the flesh, we grow spiritually and evidence is forthcoming in the form of spiritual fruit and a changed life. The world can witness this by observing the love believers have one for another and love for God displayed by obedience to Him.

Walking through life just saying you're a 'believer' bound for heaven without ever repenting and turning to Jesus with the demonstration of a changed heart resulting in godliness/holiness and spiritual fruit is the biggest deception one could be under. Imagine thinking that there wasn't any need to seek forgiveness or confess our sins when 1 John 1:9-10 and 1 John 2:1-2 plainly state we should.

[Updated on: Tue, 13 September 2016 13:11]

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

"For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope."
Romans 15:4

God is a just God who doesn't ignore sin in our lives, yet He is a merciful God who forgives us when we confess our sins and doesn't hold them against us. He restores fellowship and will use us if we're willing to submit to His will. This is displayed throughout scripture from A to Z (Adam to Zacchaeus) After Adam and Eve disobeyed God He didn't give them what they deserved but rather disciplined them in love and blessed them with children and long life. Abraham wasn't perfect, he lied about Sarah being his wife to protect himself; yet He became the father of a multitude of nations. Moses disobeyed God's instructions and it cost him entering the promised land with Israel; still he was allowed to enter into the very presence of God and speak person to person with Him. David murdered Urriah the husband of Bathsheba and committed adultery with her; still God spoke of him as a man after His own heart and blessed him exceedingly.

In the NT we're shown through scripture that Zacchaeus was a dishonest tax collector getting wealthy at others expense, but when Jesus came to visit him and changed his life he immediately began displaying fruits of repentance by restoring to those he had taken from. Peter denied Jesus and look at what happened after The Holy Spirit entered Peter's life, boldly proclaiming Christ as Lord and Saviour, healing and instructing believers in righteousness. Paul went about persecuting Christians before Jesus revealed Himself unto him and then look at the results, the Gentiles were presented with The Gospel of Grace unto salvation through his ministry.

All these examples and many more reveal the characters of men, but even more importantly, it reveals the character of God. It shows us believers today how God's mercy and grace has always been evident in the lives of those we look to as examples (both of what to do as well as what not to do) and as men we will sin (miss the mark) but that God is a God of multiple chances and that gives us hope. Encouragement from fellow believers is edifying and we're told to do so, but encouragement from God's Word is even more so edifying and builds hope and patience.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

Good thought. Was it just a rhetorical question, or were you looking for replies? You asked -

So how did so much of modern day Christianity come up with the mindset that if you were 'really saved' life was always hunky dory?

How did people who were in leadership over the sheep of God get it idea that 'real faith' kept sickness, disease, pain, death, sorrow, poverty, depression, at bay from Christians?

I would say that a section of the religious organisation is teaching that we are now moving into the era when we are to take `dominion` of the earth by the 7 `mountains,` (education, health, arts, sports, science etc) & be leaders there. Thus you see `health` is one of those areas that we are supposedly to `take dominion` of.

Pure heresy. But of course appeals to the carnal mind. These are `partnering` with the world system to transform the world. (as if...)

Replies are always welcomed, my comments were made in hopes of causing people to look to God's Word and to 'think'. I have no clue what the Christian community 'down under' is being assaulted with, but here in America the TV waves are flooded with false teachings by showboating, high profile, money hungry charlatans, especially among the charismatic circle. The quote/unquote "faith message" has run off the tracks and has become a haven for the false prosperity message. Included in that message is several other teachings that appeal to those who are looking for 'the easy way'. Blessings without any cost, no trials or tribulations; no suffering (and if you do it's because you're not 'in faith'). Cheap grace ('believing' without any change in behavior<repentance>); giving <sowing 'seed' for the purpose of 'getting for self'>.ect. ect.

I guess the 'dominion' crowd are included in that group as well, though I don't really have any interaction with anyone who caters to that error. I remember the Peter Wagner group of 'new wave apostle reformers'??? were into that but I just read about it, I haven't been exposed to it. Could that work like germs and viruses, you only get it from 'exposure'?

[Updated on: Tue, 04 October 2016 06:15]

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

Thanks for replying & nice to chat again after so long. Though I do drop in from time to time.

Yes the charlatans get all the airplay, but we know that the Lord the Head of the Body, by His Holy Spirit is moving in all the believers lives, daily, & doing the great work of building up the Body, encouraging, exhorting & edifying each other.

Now `down under` we have all those errors too, & as far as the `germs` go I would even venture to say that if you are in a denominational organisation meeting then you will highly be likely to exposure. You may not realise it but most of the songs nowadays have dominion false teaching through them.

Take our `Hillsong` here in Aussie land which is spreading over the globe & most fellowship would sing or play their music. Some of their older music, (Geoff Bullock, not there now) is good but the last few years it is teaching dominionism.

Yes, I've heard of Hillsong and Brian Houston. In fact they just got their own 'channel' on TBN (Trinity Broadcasting Network) 24/7 Hillsong from their many locations and various conferences. Some of their music is good, though I don't care to 'watch' the videos, too much like a rock concert... I have listened to a couple of his sermons, like eating fish, ya have to watch for the bones. I've not heard anything at the place I worship that sounds like it's promoting 'dominion'. But I agree that lyrics are important and so many lyrics today are not taken from scripture, just 'feel good' acceptable music that appeals to the masses. The church I attend is pretty good about making sure the songs are true praise and worship unto God and the musicians are reverent and humble in their demeanor while leading worship.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

Glad to hear your fellowship is standing strong against the tide of error. Now have you heard of `False Spirits invading the church?` Andrew Strom posted some videos of this on his site, (Revival School) (that was where I met Gary.) They are also on Utube.

He,(Andrew)explains how in that false move of God back in the `90`s there was an invasion of evil spirits into people. He shows how the manifestations are the same as in the Hindu religion where they invoke the Kundalini spirit, (demonic) & people shake uncontrollably etc.

I also saw unbelievers talking of this Kundalini spirit in themselves & how it is an awakening of energy in their bodies. They give the steps of this awakening. One of the final steps, to me looked like they had given over their wills to this spirit.

I connected this to what I have recently been reading in `War on the saints` by Jessie Penn Lewis, Mark was talking about that book recently. She identifies the effect of spirits, how they seek to bring a person into a passive state & not operate their wills.

Having said all that, many people we know here have been exposed to that `invasion` & we need to seek the Lord & repent of receiving (even in ignorance)these spirits.

Yes I've heard of the Kundalini spirit many years ago. We discussed it about 6-7 years ago on OO. If you go over to the "Rant & Rave" section and look under "Lakeland Revival/Todd Bentley" message #6654 on Jan. 14 2010 William posted a newsletter by Strom and there were a few comments concerning it.

The Lakeland revival and Todd Bentley brought attention to a lot of false spirits that were moving within charismatic circles that, at that time, I (and many others around the world) was unaware of, but by God's grace some peoples eyes were opened to these false spirits and heresies that had invaded the charismatic community. btw: Bentley is still out there propagating this stuff on those unwilling to search the scriptures and test the spirits looking for great signs and wonders and 'feel' experiences. There's a lot of info in that thread for someone willing to read the entirety of it...Sadly, not much has changed in those circles, deceivers go on deceiving and being deceived, fleecing the sheep and bringing shame to The Name of Christ.

I haven't read (that I can remember) the book 'War on the Saints' but I think somewhere over the years there's been discussion about it's contents.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

Thanks for that link. I checked it out & read some of the discussion. Now I did know that it was a false move, however what I am becoming aware of is that those who were effected, came under this, although gone on with their Christian life, don`t realise that there is a demonic spirit at work in an area of their lives.

And this would include many thousands of Christians. The stages of this influence is discernible, but the person just puts it down to `illnesses,` or other people`s behaviour. Eventually, as I said previous, the person`s will is disengaged, & they just obey this spirit`s promptings, thinking they are obeying the Holy Spirit.

I`m having to address it over here with some friends. By that I mean sharing some of Andrew Strom`s videos & discussing the false revival, then letting the Holy Spirit expose any participation by them in it.

"Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution."
II Timothy 3:12

"Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf."
I Peter 4:16

"For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on Him, but also to suffer for His sake."
Philippians 1:29

So how did so much of modern day Christianity come up with the mindset that if you were 'really saved' life was always hunky dory?

How did people who were in leadership over the sheep of God get it idea that 'real faith' kept sickness, disease, pain, death, sorrow, poverty, depression, at bay from Christians?

"The real problem is not why some pious, humble, believing people suffer, but why some do not." C.S.Lewis

Been thinking about this whole discussion going on here. I totally agree, but wanted to share some thoughts.

God's always has taken care of His people and provided for them.

Jacob and all his sons went to Egypt during a deadly famine. It was so bad that people (the Egyptians), spent all of their money, gave all of their livestock away, and then sold their land,everything they gave to Pharaoh so they could get food to survive.

During this time Jacob and his family was given the best land, (Goshen)and had plenty of food for their families. You could say they had prosperity. Esau on the other hand was left in Canaan to try and survive during the famine along with everyone else outside of Egypt.

All through scriptures God always gave the best to His people. Even Jesus said; those who followed Him would receive houses and lands with persecutions.

I know certain groups have carried this to the extreme, with getting material things. The problem with wealth and riches is that, its "deceitful", as we see in the parable of the sower. If nothing else its a time robber and distracts us from what is really important in life, while choking out the word of God, if we let it.

I have been going back into the Old Testament taking a look at what did God say to Abraham, because we see in the New Testament that we have been redeemed from the curse of the law, so that we may receive the inheritance and blessing that was promised to Abraham through Christ.

Is this scripture talking about the curse of the law (Gals.3:), found in Deuteronomy? Or does it have some other meaning? We know what the curse of the law was and included; "all sickness and poverty", put on mankind because of sin, (Deuteronomy 28:). What does the promise made to Abraham include?

Mankind received a curse in the garden, God makes a covenant with Noah, then Abraham receives a promise. Being "called" into the Kingdom of God, "of course" is the greatest blessing, but I don't think God stops there. Is this curse in Gals. 3, that we've been redeemed from, speaking of the Adamic curse or of the curse given in the law, or does it have some other meaning?

Again, I realize people carry certain verses to the extreme, as we see the modern day charismatics doing.

I'm not trying to endorse a prosperity gospel attitude, like I said, scriptures show riches are "deceptive". But at the same time God does bless us, with abundance in all things. The scriptures do show that He has always blessed His people. They weren't striving for it, but it took place.

Anyway when we receive "salvation" something does take place, concerning the promise, where God provides abundantly throughout our lifetime, not everything is "hunky dory" as the church world preaches, but He is for us and not against us.

Beloved I pray that you may prosper and be in health, even as your soul prospers.

Good to chat with you again. I`ve been busy on other forums but have popped in from time to time. Hope you have been well. We are coming through winter, so wet, but am seeing the sun shining, promise of things to come.

Speaking of promise, I believe the promise in Galatians is the promise of the Holy Spirit.

` ..that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.`

I also believe that the `riches of Christ` are not material things, but His divine nature as Peter says -

`...by which have been given to us exceedingly great & precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature,...` (2 Peter 1: 4)

Good to chat with you again. I`ve been busy on other forums but have popped in from time to time. Hope you have been well. We are coming through winter, so wet, but am seeing the sun shining, promise of things to come.

Speaking of promise, I believe the promise in Galatians is the promise of the Holy Spirit.

` ..that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.`

I also believe that the `riches of Christ` are not material things, but His divine nature as Peter says -

`...by which have been given to us exceedingly great & precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature,...` (2 Peter 1: 4)

What are your thoughts?

All the best, Marilyn.

Hi Marilyn,

I hardly have time to get on the internet anymore. I don't know where time goes it seems to have picked up speed and there's very little of it to spare. Once in a while I stop by in the mornings to read posts if there are any, or to see if every ones still alive. LOL

The riches of Christ is a whole different ball game and yes its all that is in Christ in the eternal state.

If you had a child that ask for a piece of bread would you give him a rock. I believe as adults care for children and always want their well being that our heavenly Father always wants the best for His children. I think the use of the word "prosperity" has many facets, and everyone sees the side they want to see. When I think of prosperity its not visions of flying in a personal Lear jet with a Mercedes waiting in the parking lot, thinking God is going to give me this stuff. This is the difference, some see it as material things, and like I shared riches are deceitful and choke the word.

Any way was not trying to split hairs on prosperity but make a point there is a balance. Living in a monastery with just a bed and Bible does not make someone closer to the Lord, its mere works of piety. Enough said, except, I am blessed and cannot reverse it.

I was at a gathering last night and the subject of Hill song church came up, a number of people spoke highly of it and said they enjoyed the worship. I have not heard much of this church, but on the Christian radio station they mentioned the name Hill song lately, I thought it was because of the music.

I did read an article this morning written by the Pastor of Hill song who said: gay people were welcome in his church as members but they were not to have a place of leadership.

I guess he does not believe a little leaven,, leavens the whole lump. While were not to treat sinners rudely, allowing any sin to thrive in a church I believe is an abomination to the Lord. Its contrary to the whole Bible message. The Bible says: A perverted man is an abomination to the Lord, and his path is full of thorns and snares. God is Holy and His people are holy through the shed blood of Jesus. Someone who chooses to live a life of sin and think God is blessing them, is deceived.

If a minister is deceived then the whole church is open to all forms of deception, it does not matter how good the rock band is.

The whole church system in these last days, is being invaded by demons, and allowing the world to make decisions for them. Like Jesus said; some want the praises of men rather then the praises of God. In other words the church many times wants the praise of the world around them. And in the last days we are told, God will send a delusion, and they will turn their itching ears from the truth and believe the lie.

The persecution that James mentioned in this post will come upon true believers who will not bend to the ways of the world. The church system will join in with them and will persecute true believers with the world, because it makes them look bad if someone quotes the Bible and "practices" it. If Jesus said something in His Word, who are men to try to make it sound like He didn't mean what He said. Mark it on your calendar, persecution is coming to true believers who refuse to bow the knee to Baal.

Well have to go for now, probably will not be back for a while, I have to guard my time, like I said, it seems to be flying by too rapidly.

I did read an article this morning written by the Pastor of Hill song who said: gay people were welcome in his church as members but they were not to have a place of leadership.

Gary I read the same thing a while back but thought he'd said welcomed as guest but not membership or leadership. But I reread it today and you're correct, he did say welcomed in membership.

"So if you are gay, are you welcome at Hillsong Church? Of course! You are welcome to attend, worship with us,
and participate as a congregation member with the assurance that you are personally included and accepted within our community."

Brian Houston
August 4, 2015

I can't conceive how someone can be so knowledgeable about so much of scripture and preach it for 40 years and fail to see/discern/understand the pattern of the church as shown throughout the NT and the holiness God demands and expects. I know what Pauls' response would be based on his letter to those at Corinth. But that's what is happening, the culture of the world today is blurring the line between right and wrong and it has invaded most of the church(at least a lot) today. Yes it's demonic spirits, it's love of the flesh, and it's a desire to get along (a false unity that isn't Gods unity as promised). Cheap grace give way to a false 'love' where few are willing to stand up and declare "this is the way saith The Lord, walk ye in it."

Guess I'll stop with these comments since it may be months before they're read. LOL

Time does go by faster it seems as we get older, but there is still 24 hours in a day.

[Updated on: Sun, 09 October 2016 12:55]

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."