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Topic Review (Newest First)

05-04-2014 03:02 PM

HarleyTheGSD

Quote:

Originally Posted by carmspack

depends on the underlying natural (native) temperament of the dog.
I have imported dogs that have never seen a stair case in their life.
Good temperament can over come a lot .

Once again though that experience PRIOR to 7 / 8 weeks is very important , and that happens while the dog is still with its litter mates, dam (with decreasing exposure) and the breeder , members of household and visiting quests.

This was part of the Bar Harbour experiment , too see how much or how little was needed to have an impact. "Dog Behaviour" Fuller and Scott.

In a very matter of fact way they were lead down those steps on lead , while I held on to the rail so that a dog that panicked and bolted didn't pull me down instead . Once down and then walk around a bit . See what the dog does to walk up the stairs. Often up is easier , not the sensation of falling . One dog I had needed to figure out to use the stairs by walking up them rather than trying to jump up from the floor to the landing . Two three times and then they are flying up and down those steps. This is habituation.
Same thing with dogs that have a change of environment from rural to urban. A little exposure and the dog adapts. They did not need to see and experience every possible thing and situation they may encounter at some point in their life.
Just thought of this . Adult dogs . Drove into city with friend and two dogs in crates in back of vehicle. Parked. Walked into the Toronto Transit subway station , went through turnstiles, down steep set of steps , turned around and took escalator up. Went across to the escalator down . Went to subway platform . Let one pass so we could judge each of the dogs we had. Next one we get one , ride 6 stations and get off. Use steps to go up . Exit in area around the Royal Ontario Museum , U of T campus , walk to Kensington market.
Those dogs were not prepared under 4 months to be comfortable around escalators or subway cars .

Basics of socialization are to experience the presence of other people . They don't have to have physical contact . The experience is multi sensory . Response from a youngster is influenced by feedback that the dog gets from you. The more comfortable you are the more "sure" the dog is .

Sometimes pups are rushed into things at the very moment that they shouldn't be . If the dog is sensitive about something don't make an issue of it .

Thank you every one for your advice. I appreciate everything.
I do walk them separately. At this point there is no way I could do them together. And they are somewhat dependent on each other. Usually the one that is being walked is fine and the one left behind gets upset. However, once one is out of sight the other is usually fine.
The female is much better with new experiences and new people. My concern is mostly with the male.
I think I will try a little longer. I will take him to the park again but stay further back from people and let him watch.
I just have never had a dog or puppy that ever had that response and I have been at a loss for what to do. I will give it some more work!

05-02-2014 06:10 PM

carmspack

depends on the underlying natural (native) temperament of the dog.
I have imported dogs that have never seen a stair case in their life.
Good temperament can over come a lot .

Once again though that experience PRIOR to 7 / 8 weeks is very important , and that happens while the dog is still with its litter mates, dam (with decreasing exposure) and the breeder , members of household and visiting quests.

This was part of the Bar Harbour experiment , too see how much or how little was needed to have an impact. "Dog Behaviour" Fuller and Scott.

In a very matter of fact way they were lead down those steps on lead , while I held on to the rail so that a dog that panicked and bolted didn't pull me down instead . Once down and then walk around a bit . See what the dog does to walk up the stairs. Often up is easier , not the sensation of falling . One dog I had needed to figure out to use the stairs by walking up them rather than trying to jump up from the floor to the landing . Two three times and then they are flying up and down those steps. This is habituation.
Same thing with dogs that have a change of environment from rural to urban. A little exposure and the dog adapts. They did not need to see and experience every possible thing and situation they may encounter at some point in their life.
Just thought of this . Adult dogs . Drove into city with friend and two dogs in crates in back of vehicle. Parked. Walked into the Toronto Transit subway station , went through turnstiles, down steep set of steps , turned around and took escalator up. Went across to the escalator down . Went to subway platform . Let one pass so we could judge each of the dogs we had. Next one we get one , ride 6 stations and get off. Use steps to go up . Exit in area around the Royal Ontario Museum , U of T campus , walk to Kensington market.
Those dogs were not prepared under 4 months to be comfortable around escalators or subway cars .

Basics of socialization are to experience the presence of other people . They don't have to have physical contact . The experience is multi sensory . Response from a youngster is influenced by feedback that the dog gets from you. The more comfortable you are the more "sure" the dog is .

Sometimes pups are rushed into things at the very moment that they shouldn't be . If the dog is sensitive about something don't make an issue of it .

05-02-2014 04:31 PM

HarleyTheGSD

Quote:

Originally Posted by carmspack

quote "Four months old is the closing door for socialization"

there actually is no moment when the door slams shut. Socialization is accumulative and on-going .

Two pups related to each other is probably the most difficult combination to raise up properly. They become very dependent on each other . That and having identical needs and possibly going through a stage at the same time .

Some of the most important socialization occurs while the pups are still at the breeders . What is missed there is the most difficult to make up for later on.

That is a lot of responsibility that you have . Contact the breeder and see if they can help you.

My apologies. But wouldn't it be more difficult to socialize an unsocialized four month old? Wouldn't the pup have some issues throughout it's life?
This is what I've always read in books and what people have always told me.

05-02-2014 03:29 PM

carmspack

quote "Four months old is the closing door for socialization"

there actually is no moment when the door slams shut. Socialization is accumulative and on-going .

Two pups related to each other is probably the most difficult combination to raise up properly. They become very dependent on each other . That and having identical needs and possibly going through a stage at the same time .

Some of the most important socialization occurs while the pups are still at the breeders . What is missed there is the most difficult to make up for later on.

That is a lot of responsibility that you have . Contact the breeder and see if they can help you.

05-02-2014 03:17 PM

LaRen616

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilie

It might be an unpopular vote here, but I'd seriously consider finding a good home for the male pup. He is going to require a lot of work. You've got a female pup that might start picking up on his behaviors. Sounds like she's already border line. It would be much easier finding a stable home for the pup now, then to wait till you've pulled all of your hair out, or find his behavior is beyond your capability to handle. I'd start with the breeder. See if they'd take the pup back.

I agree.

05-02-2014 03:10 PM

mego

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilie

It might be an unpopular vote here, but I'd seriously consider finding a good home for the male pup. He is going to require a lot of work. You've got a female pup that might start picking up on his behaviors. Sounds like she's already border line. It would be much easier finding a stable home for the pup now, then to wait till you've pulled all of your hair out, or find his behavior is beyond your capability to handle. I'd start with the breeder. See if they'd take the pup back.

I'm inclined to agree, unless you have dedicated time to work with him every day, multiple times a day, for months.

05-02-2014 02:18 PM

Lilie

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmbreK

We have two german shepherd puppies. Male and female, that are brother and sister. They are one week shy of four months old. We have had them since they were about 7 weeks old. I will also mention that we have two children: a six year old and a 3 1/2 yearold.

Good Lord! Do you wear a cape and have super powers? That is a whole lot on your plate!!! I run out of energy with just ONE puppy, and I have an empty nest!

It might be an unpopular vote here, but I'd seriously consider finding a good home for the male pup. He is going to require a lot of work. You've got a female pup that might start picking up on his behaviors. Sounds like she's already border line. It would be much easier finding a stable home for the pup now, then to wait till you've pulled all of your hair out, or find his behavior is beyond your capability to handle. I'd start with the breeder. See if they'd take the pup back.

05-02-2014 12:32 PM

HarleyTheGSD

Also, don't allow anybody to corner him; this could turn him into a fear biter, or just make his fear more extreme. And don't pull him towards people or force him to approach; this will hurt his trust in you.

05-02-2014 12:15 PM

HarleyTheGSD

Four months old is the closing door for socialization. I got my first German Shepherd at four months old, completely unsocilazed. He is five years old now, and has Fear Aggression. He is terrified of people and loud noises.
You need to find a professional trainer.
I wish you and your pups the best of luck!

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