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Deism

"Deism is a philosophical position that posits that God (or in some cases, gods) does not interfere directly with the world; conversely it can also be stated as a system of belief which posits God's existence as the cause of all things, and admits His perfection (and usually the existence of natural law and Providence) but rejects Divine revelation or direct intervention of God in the universe by miracles. It also rejects revelation as a source of religious knowledge and asserts that reason and observation of the natural world are sufficient to determine the existence of a single creator or absolute principle of the universe".

What do you guys think about this? I'd really like some of the Muslims on this site to comment as well.

Most conceptions of deistic gods, like the one believed in by Spinoza which posit that god is identical to the universe or that the universe is a manifestation of god are completely unfalsifiable and therefore useless.

Most conceptions of deistic gods, like the one believed in by Spinoza which posit that god is identical to the universe or that the universe is a manifestation of god are completely unfalsifiable and therefore useless.

Well if we're just talking about the two forms of deism I mentioned, god is believed to be indistinguishable from the material world, which consequently means that you wouldn't be able to differentiate between a world with god in it and one without.

Not all flavours of deism are necessarily like this - theres some interesting shit involving idealism and quantum physics which a surprising number of academics think points to the existence of a deistic god for example

I identify as Deist, too. I don’t see why the theistic debate is black and white as either an Abrahamic God exists or an Abrahamic God doesn’t. Why can’t religion be the middle ground that is eliminated?

Well if we're just talking about the two forms of deism I mentioned, god is believed to be indistinguishable from the material world, which consequently means that you wouldn't be able to differentiate between a world with god in it and one without.

That’s panentheism. Spinoza wasn’t really a conventional deist. How is his stance relevant to this thread?

Not all flavours of deism are necessarily like this - theres some interesting shit involving idealism and quantum physics which a surprising number of academics think points to the existence of a deistic god for example

So why are you condescending toward deism? And how is something that’s unfalsifiable useless?

That’s panentheism. Spinoza wasn’t really a conventional deist. How is his stance relevant to this thread?

So why are you condescending toward deism? How is something that’s unfalsifiable useless?

Panentheism can essentially be deism though

Its useless in an pragmatic sense. If something is unfalsifiable, then by definition there is a non zero possibility that it is true, but youd never be able to find out and it wouldn't have any explanatory power or be reasonable to believe in.

Its useless in an pragmatic sense. If something is unfalsifiable, then by definition there is a non zero possibility that it is true, but youd never be able to find out and it wouldn't have any explanatory power or be reasonable to believe in.

That's why unfalsifiable notions are of zero value to science

Oh, so it’s not that deism is useless to consciousness or philosophy or the human experience, it’s just useless to your weird transhumanist scientific death cult. Good to know.

Ask yourself that question. You just posited that life itself is meaningless unless we march like drones to the pastures of “scientism.”

So this is more about your opinion than fact?

You do realize that a universe created by a deist god makes way more sense than a universe created by “nothing,” right?

When did I say that? I'm not even that interested in science as a whole, I'm much more keen on philosophy, so don't label me a scientist, because I am most certainly not one and can refute the position effortlessly myself

That's the trillionth time someone has misrepresented this subject. Tell me, how is a universe created by a god differentiable from one that isnt

When did I say that? I'm not even that interested in science as a whole, I'm much more keen on philosophy, so don't label me a scientist, because I am most certainly not one and can refute the position effortlessly myself

Don’t try to backtrack now, ReX.

You literally said that something not done in the name of science is useless. Your philosophy itself is scientism. It’s clear where your allegiance lies.

That's the trillionth time someone has misrepresented this subject. Tell me, how is a universe created by a god differentiable from one that isnt

You literally said that something not done in the name of science is useless. Your philosophy itself is scientism. It’s clear where your allegiance lies.

That’s a broad question. Narrow it down a bit.

All I said was that from a science perspective, unfalsifiable things are useless. Scientism is utter bullshit, so don't call me one again if you want to be taken seriously

You claimed that a universe created by a deistic god "makes more sense" than one that didn't have such a god in thee equation. My question was clear enough, how do you tell the difference between them?

All I said was that from a science perspective, unfalsifiable things are useless. Scientism is utter bullshit, so don't call me one again if you want to be taken seriously

You said what you said, ReX. Everything has to be done in the name of science.

You claimed that a universe created by a deistic god "makes more sense" than one that didn't have such a god in thee equation. My question was clear enough, how do you tell the difference between them?

Do you have examples of universes that were created with or without gods? If not, then this is just a sad attempt to pigeonhole someone.

Youre a fucking evil piece of shit, and its clear you aren't interested in having a serious discussion about this.

Why? Because you asked a disingenuous question? This stuff really isn’t as convoluted as you’re making it out to be. You have yet to explain why my statement about a deistic universe making more sense is flawed in any way.