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state Movement: If the firearm identified in item 4 is a machinegun, short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun, or destructive device, the registrant may be required by 18 U.S.C. § 922(a)(4) to obtain permission from ATF prior to any transportation in interstate or foreign commerce. ATF E-Form 5320.20 can be used to request this permission.

Yeah. The next state over (where I own a lot of land) is only two miles or so from my house, so, yeah, it would be a royal pain in the ass to have to ask permission to transport a SBR over there, even if done on an annual basis.

I just don't like the idea of having to let the nose of the federal gubment camel under my tent every time I make a move.

I've been on the BATF list since I purchased my first firearm at 18yo......I'm not a paranoid person. I've also never felt the need to take an SBR with me out of state.

The wait is like 5mos right now. And that "brace" still looks gay.

For the record, I think all NFA laws are bullshit and a violation of our rights. I also don't want braces or bump stocks to be banned, even though I think they are the 2 douchiest firearm accessories made.

When you purchase a firearm, that my put you into a pool of 100 to 200 million other law abiding Americans. When you register under the NFA that puts you in a pool of what, at most a few hundred thousand other people?

state Movement: If the firearm identified in item 4 is a machinegun, short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun, or destructive device, the registrant may be required by 18 U.S.C. § 922(a)(4) to obtain permission from ATF prior to any transportation in interstate or foreign commerce. ATF E-Form 5320.20 can be used to request this permission.

Yeah. The next state over (where I own a lot of land) is only two miles or so from my house, so, yeah, it would be a royal pain in the ass to have to ask permission to transport a SBR over there, even if done on an annual basis.

I just don't like the idea of having to let the nose of the federal gubment camel under my tent every time I make a move.

You guys keep missing the very important word "commerce".

Not "going to do property maintenance"

Not "going to an out-of-state AK Files get-together to show off muh guns"

The form 1 isn't a "permission slip" for "crossing state lines". The member is referring to the "ATF Form 20 - 5320.20 Application to Transport NFA Firearms"

Yes, it does (emphasis added):

Quote:

Originally Posted by RMiller

For $70 and no government permission/tax I can have a very handy PDW that fits in my backpack, legally carried in my front seat with me loaded (as it meets the IL definition of pistol), and I can effectively use it.

Not to mention, it can go across state lines with me as I travel, without a permission slip.

Is the shockwave as comfortable as a stock? No.

But until laws change were I can add a stock to SLR106UR without a stamp, carry it loaded with me in my car, and travel freely with it, the SBR is irrelevant to me.

-Bob

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncreptile

At least they're not out there dressing up like animals like some of these nutjobs.

Those who have gotten SBR and jumped through all the hoops will dig in their heels and beat their fist on the table to convince us they are right. Anything else will be an admission of not being right.

There are certain legal advantages that a braced pistol has over a SBR. As Rmiller pointed out, he can "carry" it loaded under his IL CCL. But as he stated, it is a comprimise. The brace isn't as comfortable as a proper stock.

Those who have gotten SBR and jumped through all the hoops will dig in their heels and beat their fist on the table to convince us they are right. Anything else will be an admission of not being right.

This is just my opinion, I hope I don't get banned for expressing it.

What a fucking pain in the ass. Fuck that. I’ve got better things to do than fill out a bunch of forms to expose myself to federal scrutiny just to put a buttstock on a Pistol. Not worth it.

Yes, and my point was that there are those in this thread referring to the Form 1 as permission.

Permission to create and permission to transport.

You've proven my point.

I have?

The form 1 is "permission to manufacture an NFA weapon", and has nothing to do with transporting the weapon.

Once you manufacture the NFA weapon, it's yours to do with what is legal to do.

The form 20 is a "notification" form - you don't have to wait for it to be returned before you travel.

The only "permission slip" you need to carry is the form 1 ( or form 4 ) itself, but this won't keep you out of trouble if you go into a NFA-restricted state ( the form 20 won't either, but if you submit it far enough ahead of your travels with a NFA-restricted state listed on it, the batboys will let you know you can't go there )

Has anyone contacted a barrel manufacturer to get us AKM profile straight grooved barrels. Everyone should be happy with that situation, build a krink with a stock, no tax stamp, no gimicky brace, no form 20. Cheap non rifle barrels for AKs would in my mind make SBR irrelevant

Here is the interesting conclusion I get out of reading the entire series of posts - a lot of confusion and quite pointed comments on use of a Pistol "Brace". I have viewed and in fact seen with my own eyes pictures and video of major retail sellers and in Firearms News the most recent edition on the Krebbs AK Pistol of the braces being "shouldered" when fired. Guess we will see them in Club Fed soon? I am not here to argue about SBR nor the use of a brace. I don't have a brace on any firearm, although I do have a AR Pistol with just a rear extension. I am going to wrap my extension in a Pool Type small diameter float more than likely as a cheek rest. In video from major sellers and manufacturers they mention that occasional use of the brace being shouldered has been deemed by the ATF as not verboten. There the confusion lies. There are a zillion people buying AR pistols - with a wide range of braces. It seems that there is a clear explanation given thru the ATF to the sellers and major retailers, not that the thing can be shouldered all the time but on occasion.
This is my take on the matter as a largely out side observer.

Here is the interesting conclusion I get out of reading the entire series of posts - a lot of confusion and quite pointed comments on use of a Pistol "Brace". I have viewed and in fact seen with my own eyes pictures and video of major retail sellers and in Firearms News the most recent edition on the Krebbs AK Pistol of the braces being "shouldered" when fired. Guess we will see them in Club Fed soon? I am not here to argue about SBR nor the use of a brace. I don't have a brace on any firearm, although I do have a AR Pistol with just a rear extension. I am going to wrap my extension in a Pool Type small diameter float more than likely as a cheek rest. In video from major sellers and manufacturers they mention that occasional use of the brace being shouldered has been deemed by the ATF as not verboten. There the confusion lies. There are a zillion people buying AR pistols - with a wide range of braces. It seems that there is a clear explanation given thru the ATF to the sellers and major retailers, not that the thing can be shouldered all the time but on occasion.
This is my take on the matter as a largely out side observer.

The first paragraph of the 2017 sig brace letter states that ATF stands by the conclussions of the 2015 open letter , the closing statements of the 2017 letter go on to state that sporadic, incidental or situational shouldering don’t “redesign” a firearm.

The same letter even mentions fixing the sig brace to the buffer tube at a length that has no other use than to be a stock is a no-no. As far as things go, I would buy a complete pistol with brace IF I was going to get one, pay the extra and don’t be the manufacturer or the guy who made or remade it with the intent to shoot from the shoulder.

If you don’t want to buy from a manufacturer, don’t want to submit to the NFA and want a compact shoulder fired firearm, the approved concept of the straight grooved barrel is the only real option

There are certain legal advantages that a braced pistol has over a SBR. As Rmiller pointed out, he can "carry" it loaded under his IL CCL. But as he stated, it is a comprimise. The brace isn't as comfortable as a proper stock.

I don't think either one makes the other irrelevant.

Correct.

In my case the advantage of carrying it loaded, legally, is worth the compromise of no stock.

So we are all in agreement that an owning an SBR is a whole new set of laws that apply and you are betting your freedom on knowing them 100%. Cause there's a liberal judge and jury who would love to splash your face all over the evening news.

For those who want to own an SBR and open yourself up to that liability, that is your right. But I will not put myself in that situation.

So we are all in agreement that an owning an SBR is a whole new set of laws that apply and you are betting your freedom on knowing them 100%. Cause there's a liberal judge and jury who would love to splash your face all over the evening news.

For those who want to own an SBR and open yourself up to that liability, that is your right. But I will not put myself in that situation.

"Whole new set of laws"?

Not at all, or should I say "depends on your locality".

As previously stated, Texas law only gives a sh** about an approved tax form and after that treats SBRs & SBS' just like regular rifles & shotguns.

Aww, I just looked; you're a Texan whining like a Yankee or an Ill-and-annoyed resident.