So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsisDr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuffOut of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.Get your angries out  You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships. heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

If you find that he really wants to changeshould I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change please dont give him the link print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rightsbill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

leclerc that is awful these fw's really are messed up in the head and they actually do believe all the crap they come out with.

as for me i am weakening again as he actually said bye to me this morning which is a big deal as he has been blanking me since the hairbrush incident which of course was my fault. its awful as anything which is vaguely normal feels like heaven after a bad few days so you lap it up. i feel bad that i will be hurting him by getting an injunction order etc even though i know what he does isnt right but you just get used to it so it becomes your normal.

any strength or empowerment i had yesterday is gone and i feel firmly in my place again am annoyed with myself for being so weak.

with you on that sentiment Yummy right back there now too. I am saying to myself that he talks shite and is just very good a put downs and putting me in my place, and its time I didn't stay in any place that he thinks I should be in!!!! aaaghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr......

LeClerc, what age is DS1? Does he have poo issues, holding then not being able to stop them coming eventually? My DS does, - think it's a side effect of DV on a child, a dstress signal. DS is getting there, gradually, but we are 2 years out.

Please, if this man beats your babies, for things they struggle with, he needs to Fuck the Fuck off, and not be allowed to see them. Until the DC are stronger.

His letter is continuing on from his overheard convo with his mother. He's appealing to your DF to get you back under control, because YOU are not able to run your own life, make your own decisions. It's YOU he needed to win over, you he has to prove himself to.

He's just trying to marginalise you, isolate you and get you pressured by yet another man, on his behalf.

Tell your DF that you'll handle this yourself, that he's heard the TRUE FW, and this is all smoke and bollocks.

Sorry I've been awol, horrible noro like virus and very grouchy kids all half term. Poor dcs have been climbing walls as I've been lying on sofa groaning!

My previous lost post was basically strongly in support of you all, specially Pony as you sounded so sad. You're an inspiration and such a lovely person just on this thread, you must be a superstar in RL! Your kids are so very lucky they have you.

Leclerc, what all the others said re your fw's email. I'm glad your df had the accidental voicemail to measure against.

My fw was strangely supportive during my illness, he seems to be at his best when I'm down and broken- hmmmm funny that. Luckily now he is reverting to proper behaviour and has started ticking me off about doing things wrong etc so all good for me difficult to be hard nosed when someone's being pleasant and supportive. Also spoke to WA and enrolled myself on FP to keep myself strong and learning.

sorry I have been awol a bit since last post. But been trying to get my head together, which is so difficult when I am still living under the same roof. I feel so confused in my head. I feel excited at the prospect of being on my own, a fresh start, but then I look at him sometimes and think maybe it's all in my head and I really have been the problem all along and maybe I could make it work, and on and on it goes. I can feel myself emotionally detaching and it's a very, very, strange experience indeed. It's almost as if I am outside myself if you know what I mean?

Hi Eternal yes it is such a complex process. I recognise everything you say from my own experiences and I am sure many here do. Otherwise, intelligent women like us wouldn't stay in this situation. People on the outside do not realise the complexity of an EA relationship, being prisoner in one and the difficulty of leaving one. So once we start telling people in RL we have the added pressure and stress of their disbelief that we don't just walk away.

Either that or they think it's six of one, half a dozen of the other. At some points during the last year, I felt my 'truth' was only known by me and those on this thread, even close friends could not really get it. Thank goodness FW only got worse, thus helping in the process of unravelling spaghetti head...

Oh my, I am just reading a preview of the 'Why does he do that' from lundy bancroft, I will definitely be buying an online copy on Monday! Wow, let's just say from what I have read the little doubts I had about whether my relationship is abusive or not has just gone poof!

I think for me, the last few days I have been intensely reflecting on everything and I can see that for a long time I have chosen to ignore things, or my gut instinct For example, in December I joined the dating thread on the relationships board, not because I am dating myself, but because I enjoyed reading about women meeting new men and having intimacy. I even read an affairs forum last year, not because I wanted to have an affair but because I enjoyed reading about other people having intimacy with men and it felt like a different world to the one I am living. It's almost as if I am 'living my dream for intimacy through others' I have only just realised this...

And then there is the endless planning into the future as a single mum. I have never planned for him being in my future, always taken a 'single wage' into account when thinking about potential mortgage affordability etc. And then there is the sick, nagging feeling I got when people would ask me about what my partner is like and I would come out with the same old 'he is a great father' line.

The hardest part of all this is admitting that I have been unhappy for a very, very long time and that I don't think I have ever had intimacy with this man which is sad. Laugh we can do, yes. Cuddle, yes. But full on snogging has only occured 2/3 times in 5 years because I learnt very on I really didn't like it. So since then it's just been kiss on the lips, cheek etc. We can talk about certain topics, well kind of - only if I am agreeing with everything he says, but talking about the relationship is a BIG, NO NO!

Yes Silver it's strange reaching the point where we applaud the fwittery as helpful I actually found myself thinking "thank you" many times recently as he couldn't but help slip back to customary fwittery after brief periods of supposed decency after his so called "wake up call" (which came about three years too late). Because it's never going to change, long term, as we painfully discover!

YY to kissing eternal. Before our split, my fw would occasionally try to kiss mouth to mouth while we DTD. Despite sleeping with him and sometimes enjoying it, kissing him deeply made me recoil. I guess it's the toothbrush test of the EA marriage!

well hello ladies... i'm just back from eve with another family, and my girlfriend was telling me about her sister and the 'awful man' FW that has moved in with her, she never liked him and neither did her husband, but the daughter has stayed there and watched him treat her dog so cruelly and is scared of him and the little boy (the sister's DS not the FW P) has disclosed to his aunt that he's scared and prayed to stay at theirs and not go home . Friend has begged her sister to leave him, sister can see nothing wrong (but she's not allowed to go anywhere to the family without him and their mother refuses to have anything to do with him, will not visit - so her sister now getting isolated too)... all these bells ringing for everyone! She doesn't seem to speak in front of him anymore, and does as she's told, will not hear anyone say anything against him. What it did help me with tho, which you've been discussing here this eve, is the getting across of how the slow insidious manipulations start to get you doubting yourself and believing it the victim thats at fault all the time. We chatted for ages about it, her sister and my situation. So I now have one other in RL that is really getting whats been going on. I've been bombarded with insulting nasty emails again. Can't believe how difficult they are to just dismiss without disaappearing back down that hole again. FUCK FUCK FUCK

Not there now, but why am I still fighting this!?!?!?!?! grrrrrrrr!!! Why even listen for a moment, cos its crazy making shit, when I read it back I realise it was him in a fucking stew again all night, phoned me, hung up, then spent the evening sending emails here and there until gone 11. Crazy crazy fuck he is. Why is he my poor DD's father. Where was I at when I thought, hey yeah, lets do this,!!! Well actualy I had left him b4 conceiving, but life catastrophe and shock of that. ... blah blah the rest is history as they say... and hadn't planned on the conception and then grimly seemed to stick with it [the relationship - loved the baby always, never a doubt].

so sad to hear of friend's distress knowing her sister is in this situation and cannot seem to do anything to help her realise the way he is isolating her and abusing her... and I hate that FW still has any impact on me atall Fing FW!!!

Hi all, just checking in. Lots of FWerty here, too much to explain..drained . Dmum and Dbro coming next week to help me get more stuff into storage and have solicitors appt too. Lots of in-law visits happening though so poker face firmly on to avoid FW having a fit. Post properly soon. Love and strength to all with everyones elses FWerty going on too x

PS - Fi Sorry to hear about your friends sister....another lady to invite to the commune. Hope she doesn't take as long as some of us have to come to terms with what is happening to her and try and get out. How many more out there...

Hi Fly hope you are ok and no more midnight visitors to your bedroom - ugghh. Yes I wish ILs would just piss off to put it politely! Going to try and get some kip now, FW awol as usual for a weekend night, in the last 48 hours he has only seen kids for about half an hour. He will then be playing his role of father of the fecking year when we have the next ILs visit - bastard!