[digiKam-users] Metadata for RAW files

[digiKam-users] Metadata for RAW files

As I always work from RAW, I would like to document my RAW files metadata so,
when creating exported versions of these RAW files, the metadata
automatically spread to the new files. However, I can edit metadata for my
RAW files from Digikam, and I guess it will be saved to XML files. The fact
is that I can access to "Edit metadata", but I can't change the info.
Is a nonsense what I pretend or there is another way to do what I want?

Re: Metadata for RAW files

On vendredi 21 juin 2019 13:42:53 CEST Rafael Linux wrote:
> As I always work from RAW, I would like to document my RAW files metadata
> so, when creating exported versions of these RAW files, the metadata
> automatically spread to the new files. However, I can edit metadata for my
> RAW files from Digikam, and I guess it will be saved to XML files.

It depends on which metadata you want to change. Certain items should not be
changed (e.g. original creation date, photographic information like F-stop,
shutter speed, ISO setting), others should be written only once (creator...),
and some aren't really useful on a raw file, or can change for every export
(e.g. licensing info).

Also note that saving to XML files is optional, and writing to raw files is
strongly discouraged. So if you have both "writing to raw" and "writing to
sidecar XMP files" disabled, dk can't save the metadata other than to its
database (which is done in any case).

> The fact
> is that I can access to "Edit metadata", but I can't change the info.
> Is a nonsense what I pretend or there is another way to do what I want?

I suppose you noticed that, in the "edit metadata" dialog, a lot of items have
to be explicitly enabled by clicking a checkbox...

Re: Metadata for RAW files

Metadata I want to change it's not photo parameters related, but "Autor", "Credits", "Copyright" .... and so on. I have activated "read" and "write" to "Element and in XMP sidecar", and I understand in RAW files case, it should be write only to XMP files, not inside RAW files, that's fine. Despite that, I only can change or "enable" checkboxes when over non RAW files. In this screenshot, you can see I selected a RAW file and try to change the "Credits" ... no option to do nothing about it.

However, if I select a TIFF file, I can enable/disable and write metadata for "Credits". :(

On vendredi 21 juin 2019 13:42:53 CEST Rafael Linux wrote:
> As I always work from RAW, I would like to document my RAW files metadata
> so, when creating exported versions of these RAW files, the metadata
> automatically spread to the new files. However, I can edit metadata for my
> RAW files from Digikam, and I guess it will be saved to XML files.

It depends on which metadata you want to change. Certain items should not be
changed (e.g. original creation date, photographic information like F-stop,
shutter speed, ISO setting), others should be written only once (creator...),
and some aren't really useful on a raw file, or can change for every export
(e.g. licensing info).

Also note that saving to XML files is optional, and writing to raw files is
strongly discouraged. So if you have both "writing to raw" and "writing to
sidecar XMP files" disabled, dk can't save the metadata other than to its
database (which is done in any case).

> The fact
> is that I can access to "Edit metadata", but I can't change the info.
> Is a nonsense what I pretend or there is another way to do what I want?

I suppose you noticed that, in the "edit metadata" dialog, a lot of items have
to be explicitly enabled by clicking a checkbox...

Re: Metadata for RAW files

Even if RAW files are mostly based to TIFF/EP standard, there are plenty of proprietary chunk/tags/container included in the tree of file and it's a very bad idea to try to write RAW metadata in file. RAW files must be considerate as read only and XMP side car used instead.

Metadata I want to change it's not photo parameters related, but "Autor", "Credits", "Copyright" .... and so on. I have activated "read" and "write" to "Element and in XMP sidecar", and I understand in RAW files case, it should be write only to XMP files, not inside RAW files, that's fine. Despite that, I only can change or "enable" checkboxes when over non RAW files. In this screenshot, you can see I selected a RAW file and try to change the "Credits" ... no option to do nothing about it.

However, if I select a TIFF file, I can enable/disable and write metadata for "Credits". :(

On vendredi 21 juin 2019 13:42:53 CEST Rafael Linux wrote:
> As I always work from RAW, I would like to document my RAW files metadata
> so, when creating exported versions of these RAW files, the metadata
> automatically spread to the new files. However, I can edit metadata for my
> RAW files from Digikam, and I guess it will be saved to XML files.

It depends on which metadata you want to change. Certain items should not be
changed (e.g. original creation date, photographic information like F-stop,
shutter speed, ISO setting), others should be written only once (creator...),
and some aren't really useful on a raw file, or can change for every export
(e.g. licensing info).

Also note that saving to XML files is optional, and writing to raw files is
strongly discouraged. So if you have both "writing to raw" and "writing to
sidecar XMP files" disabled, dk can't save the metadata other than to its
database (which is done in any case).

> The fact
> is that I can access to "Edit metadata", but I can't change the info.
> Is a nonsense what I pretend or there is another way to do what I want?

I suppose you noticed that, in the "edit metadata" dialog, a lot of items have
to be explicitly enabled by clicking a checkbox...

Re: Metadata for RAW files

Even if RAW files are mostly based to TIFF/EP standard, there are plenty of proprietary chunk/tags/container included in the tree of file and it's a very bad idea to try to write RAW metadata in file. RAW files must be considerate as read only and XMP side car used instead.

Re: Metadata for RAW files

It's clear that I didn't explain myself correctly. I don't pretend to change any RAW file metadata. I consider that if I have activated XMP files for every image, Digikam will let me write XMP files for RAW files too. That's is what I'm talking about. For example, Darktable write to XMP files associated to RAW files what process to do and, so far I know, XMP files can be used by any software to store processes or data, even for RAW files. That's is what I pretend, to write metadata for RAW files in their respective XMP files, not to change RAW data in nay way.

Even if RAW files are mostly based to TIFF/EP standard, there are plenty of proprietary chunk/tags/container included in the tree of file and it's a very bad idea to try to write RAW metadata in file. RAW files must be considerate as read only and XMP side car used instead.

Re: Metadata for RAW files

On samedi 22 juin 2019 22:11:49 CEST Rafael Linux User wrote:
> It's clear that I didn't explain myself correctly. I don't pretend to
> change any RAW file metadata. I consider that if I have activated XMP files
> for every image, Digikam will let me write XMP files for RAW files too.
> That's is what I'm talking about. For example, Darktable write to XMP files
> associated to RAW files what process to do and, so far I know, XMP files
> can be used by any software to store processes or data, even for RAW files.
> That's is what I pretend, to write metadata for RAW files in their
> respective XMP files, not to change RAW data in nay way.

Trying to do what you described, I did manage to change those metadata hrough
Digikam in the XMP file. However, I had to use the"XMP" panel of the "edit
metadata" dialog

This is not the default panel, afaik, but it does seem to be 'sticky': when
you reopen the dialog, the last active panel is still active.

Perhaps that explains why you couldn't get your data written to the XMP files?

Re: Metadata for RAW files

Yes, I tried previously to ask here to change metadata in all tabs ("EXIF" , "IPTC" and "XMP"), but as I wrote, it's not possible to enable/disable or change any field when selected image is a RAW file. There is not problem at all when I try it with any other image file.

On samedi 22 juin 2019 22:11:49 CEST Rafael Linux User wrote:
> It's clear that I didn't explain myself correctly. I don't pretend to
> change any RAW file metadata. I consider that if I have activated XMP files
> for every image, Digikam will let me write XMP files for RAW files too.
> That's is what I'm talking about. For example, Darktable write to XMP files
> associated to RAW files what process to do and, so far I know, XMP files
> can be used by any software to store processes or data, even for RAW files.
> That's is what I pretend, to write metadata for RAW files in their
> respective XMP files, not to change RAW data in nay way.

Trying to do what you described, I did manage to change those metadata hrough
Digikam in the XMP file. However, I had to use the"XMP" panel of the "edit
metadata" dialog

This is not the default panel, afaik, but it does seem to be 'sticky': when
you reopen the dialog, the last active panel is still active.

Perhaps that explains why you couldn't get your data written to the XMP files?

Re: Metadata for RAW files

I think you are not understanding what Rafael is asking. He knows that
raw files are not to be modified. He has enabled sidecar support. He
only wants to edit the metadata that is stored in the database and in
the sidecar file.

Andrew

On 22/06/2019 14:10, Gilles Caulier wrote:

> Even if RAW files are mostly based to TIFF/EP standard, there are plenty
> of proprietary chunk/tags/container included in the tree of file and
> it's a very bad idea to try to write RAW metadata in file. RAW files
> must be considerate as read only and XMP side car used instead.
>
> Best
>
>
> Gilles Caulier
>
> Le sam. 22 juin 2019 à 12:48, Rafael Linux User
> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> a écrit :
>
> Metadata I want to change it's not photo parameters related, but
> "Autor", "Credits", "Copyright" .... and so on. I have activated
> "read" and "write" to "Element and in XMP sidecar", and I understand
> in RAW files case, it should be write only to XMP files, not inside
> RAW files, that's fine. Despite that, I only can change or "enable"
> checkboxes when over non RAW files. In this screenshot, you can see
> I selected a RAW file and try to change the "Credits" ... no option
> to do nothing about it.
>
> image.png
> However, if I select a TIFF file, I can enable/disable and write
> metadata for "Credits". :(
>
> El vie., 21 jun. 2019 a las 17:50, Remco Viëtor
> (<[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>) escribió:
>
> On vendredi 21 juin 2019 13:42:53 CEST Rafael Linux wrote:
> > As I always work from RAW, I would like to document my RAW
> files metadata
> > so, when creating exported versions of these RAW files, the
> metadata
> > automatically spread to the new files. However, I can edit
> metadata for my
> > RAW files from Digikam, and I guess it will be saved to XML
> files.
>
> It depends on which metadata you want to change. Certain items
> should not be
> changed (e.g. original creation date, photographic information
> like F-stop,
> shutter speed, ISO setting), others should be written only once
> (creator...),
> and some aren't really useful on a raw file, or can change for
> every export
> (e.g. licensing info).
>
> Also note that saving to XML files is optional, and writing to
> raw files is
> strongly discouraged. So if you have both "writing to raw" and
> "writing to
> sidecar XMP files" disabled, dk can't save the metadata other
> than to its
> database (which is done in any case).
>
> > The fact
> > is that I can access to "Edit metadata", but I can't change
> the info.
> > Is a nonsense what I pretend or there is another way to do
> what I want?
>
> I suppose you noticed that, in the "edit metadata" dialog, a lot
> of items have
> to be explicitly enabled by clicking a checkbox...
>
>
>
> Remco
>
>

Re: Metadata for RAW files

I think it is important to recognize that XMP sidecar files are at heart
text files formatted in a particular, specifically defined format.
Virtually any pure text editor can be used to edit the files. DigiKam
enables certain ways to create edit xmp files. These methods also link
to the DK database, which is useful.

When venturing into these domains, one must accept the risks of one's
errors of omission and commission, and limits of understanding.

I've recently made several hundred Canon RAW CR2 files. I have used DK
to create XMP sidecars for each of them. My project is to copy several
hundred images from my slide catalog dating from long ago until the
1990's or so. My process is to photograph each slide with three
bracketed exposures approximately -1 EV, +1 EV, and +3 EV. I use another
software package to create HDR images which are saved as tif images
(about 140-150 MB each). The sidecar data are not carried through from
the CR2 folder to the HDR folder, so I copy and paste the data for each
image. The HDR folder does not have sidecar files.

I have examined the XMP sidecars with Notepad ++, and have not changed
anything in them.

> Gilles,
>
> I think you are not understanding what Rafael is asking. He knows that
> raw files are not to be modified. He has enabled sidecar support. He
> only wants to edit the metadata that is stored in the database and in
> the sidecar file.
>
> Andrew
>
> On 22/06/2019 14:10, Gilles Caulier wrote:
>> Even if RAW files are mostly based to TIFF/EP standard, there are
>> plenty of proprietary chunk/tags/container included in the tree of
>> file and it's a very bad idea to try to write RAW metadata in file.
>> RAW files must be considerate as read only and XMP side car used
>> instead.
>>
>> Best
>>
>>
>> Gilles Caulier
>>
>> Le sam. 22 juin 2019 à 12:48, Rafael Linux User
>> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> a
>> écrit :
>>
>> Metadata I want to change it's not photo parameters related, but
>> "Autor", "Credits", "Copyright" .... and so on. I have activated
>> "read" and "write" to "Element and in XMP sidecar", and I understand
>> in RAW files case, it should be write only to XMP files, not inside
>> RAW files, that's fine. Despite that, I only can change or "enable"
>> checkboxes when over non RAW files. In this screenshot, you can see
>> I selected a RAW file and try to change the "Credits" ... no option
>> to do nothing about it.
>>
>> image.png
>> However, if I select a TIFF file, I can enable/disable and write
>> metadata for "Credits". :(
>>
>> El vie., 21 jun. 2019 a las 17:50, Remco Viëtor
>> (<[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>)
>> escribió:
>>
>> On vendredi 21 juin 2019 13:42:53 CEST Rafael Linux wrote:
>> > As I always work from RAW, I would like to document my RAW
>> files metadata
>> > so, when creating exported versions of these RAW files, the
>> metadata
>> > automatically spread to the new files. However, I can edit
>> metadata for my
>> > RAW files from Digikam, and I guess it will be saved to XML
>> files.
>>
>> It depends on which metadata you want to change. Certain items
>> should not be
>> changed (e.g. original creation date, photographic information
>> like F-stop,
>> shutter speed, ISO setting), others should be written only once
>> (creator...),
>> and some aren't really useful on a raw file, or can change for
>> every export
>> (e.g. licensing info).
>>
>> Also note that saving to XML files is optional, and writing to
>> raw files is
>> strongly discouraged. So if you have both "writing to raw" and
>> "writing to
>> sidecar XMP files" disabled, dk can't save the metadata other
>> than to its
>> database (which is done in any case).
>>
>> > The fact
>> > is that I can access to "Edit metadata", but I can't change
>> the info.
>> > Is a nonsense what I pretend or there is another way to do
>> what I want?
>>
>> I suppose you noticed that, in the "edit metadata" dialog, a lot
>> of items have
>> to be explicitly enabled by clicking a checkbox...
>>
>>
>>
>> Remco
>>
>>

Re: Metadata for RAW files

On lundi 24 juin 2019 00:03:09 CEST Rafael Linux User wrote:
> Yes, I tried previously to ask here to change metadata in all tabs ("EXIF"
> , "IPTC" and "XMP"), but as I wrote, it's not possible to enable/disable or
> change any field when selected image is a RAW file. There is not problem at
> all when I try it with any other image file.

Then there is a difference between our systems, because I tested that on a
*raw* file (as that was where you claimed the problems were).

I just tested again, on a raw file, and the XMP was updated with the added in
formation through the "Item"->"Edit Metadata" dialog, XMP tab...

What does *not* work, is changing those metadata for a raw file in the
"Information" tab of the "Captions" right sidebar.

Another way to enter that information is through metadata templates (handy for
standard copyright and contact info).

This is tested on version 6.1.0 (build date mai 1st, 2019 according to 'about'
dialog, title bar shows Digikam 5.9.0).

Remco

P.S. Your image shows the IPTC tab... That's a different format, with
restrictions on the character sets it can use (only 8-bit characters). All its
fields are also included in the XMP tab. IPTC core can't be written to XMP
afaik.

I think you are not understanding what Rafael is asking. He knows that
raw files are not to be modified. He has enabled sidecar support. He
only wants to edit the metadata that is stored in the database and in
the sidecar file.

Andrew

On 22/06/2019 14:10, Gilles Caulier wrote:
> Even if RAW files are mostly based to TIFF/EP standard, there are plenty
> of proprietary chunk/tags/container included in the tree of file and
> it's a very bad idea to try to write RAW metadata in file. RAW files
> must be considerate as read only and XMP side car used instead.
>
> Best
>
>
> Gilles Caulier
>
> Le sam. 22 juin 2019 à 12:48, Rafael Linux User
> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> a écrit :
>
> Metadata I want to change it's not photo parameters related, but
> "Autor", "Credits", "Copyright" .... and so on. I have activated
> "read" and "write" to "Element and in XMP sidecar", and I understand
> in RAW files case, it should be write only to XMP files, not inside
> RAW files, that's fine. Despite that, I only can change or "enable"
> checkboxes when over non RAW files. In this screenshot, you can see
> I selected a RAW file and try to change the "Credits" ... no option
> to do nothing about it.
>
> image.png
> However, if I select a TIFF file, I can enable/disable and write
> metadata for "Credits". :(
>
> El vie., 21 jun. 2019 a las 17:50, Remco Viëtor
> (<[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>) escribió:
>
> On vendredi 21 juin 2019 13:42:53 CEST Rafael Linux wrote:
> > As I always work from RAW, I would like to document my RAW
> files metadata
> > so, when creating exported versions of these RAW files, the
> metadata
> > automatically spread to the new files. However, I can edit
> metadata for my
> > RAW files from Digikam, and I guess it will be saved to XML
> files.
>
> It depends on which metadata you want to change. Certain items
> should not be
> changed (e.g. original creation date, photographic information
> like F-stop,
> shutter speed, ISO setting), others should be written only once
> (creator...),
> and some aren't really useful on a raw file, or can change for
> every export
> (e.g. licensing info).
>
> Also note that saving to XML files is optional, and writing to
> raw files is
> strongly discouraged. So if you have both "writing to raw" and
> "writing to
> sidecar XMP files" disabled, dk can't save the metadata other
> than to its
> database (which is done in any case).
>
> > The fact
> > is that I can access to "Edit metadata", but I can't change
> the info.
> > Is a nonsense what I pretend or there is another way to do
> what I want?
>
> I suppose you noticed that, in the "edit metadata" dialog, a lot
> of items have
> to be explicitly enabled by clicking a checkbox...
>
>
>
> Remco
>
>

Re: Metadata for RAW files

I'm using Digikam 6.1 and my system have nothing strange. My latest attached
screenshot shows the "XMP" tab. However, I observed an strange behavior
while taking this screenshots. If the "Item" selected previously is not a
RAW file, I can select any icon in the left column, whatever tab I select
(EXIF, IPTC or XMP). However, if the item selected were a RAW file, I can't
select any other icon of the left column but one that is automatically
selected by Digikam in each tab. That is: If I select "EXIF" tab,
"Description" icon is auto-selected, and no other icon can be selected!!.
If I click "IPTC" tab, "Affairs" (maybe "subjects" in English, an RSS like
icon) is the auto-selected icon and can't select any other. Finally, if I
click on "XMP", "Status" icon is auto-selected.

I can't understand this behavior. It's the official KDE:Extra repositories
Digikam version. Could this be related to the RW2 RAW format file????

Re: Metadata for RAW files

Rafael, I am trying to replicate this in the last appimage (
digikam-6.2.0-git-20190717T191410-qtwebkit-x86-64.appimage ), but I don't
have any problems selecting any field in the metadata editor. My RAW files
are .CR2, not RW2, though.

Re: Metadata for RAW files

This post was updated on .

Well, the bug is worst than I was thinking. For some reason, Digikam do not
let user to change metadata for RW2 files (Panasonic Lumix RAW files). The
best way to show what's happening is this video:
https://fromsmash.com/rw2-digikam

I have all permissions on the folder and the RW2 files. If I do the same on
a non RW2 file on same folder, I can change metadata.

Re: Metadata for RAW files

On lundi 22 juillet 2019 01:29:05 CEST Rafael Linux wrote:
> Well, the bug is worst than I was thinking. For some reason, Digikam do not
> let user to change metadata for RW2 files (Panasonic Lumix RAW files). The
> best way to show what's happening is this video:
> https://fromsmash.com/rw2-digikam>
> I have all permissions on the folder and the RW2 files. If I do the same on
> a non RW2 file on same folder, I can change metadata.

Not writing to raw files is *not* a bug, it's a design decision (feature, if
you prefer)...

And in my opinion a good one, every now and then there's a bug report about a
program corrupting the raw files sufficiently that they become unreadable for
other programs. "Every now and then" sounds like it's not a problem. But it is
if that makes you lose your images. I treat raw files like the old film
negatives: only (re)touch them when absolutely needed and knowing what you are
doing.

The exact format of most raw files is only known by the camera makers. How to
read the information is more or less deduced by programmers of 3rd party
programs, but that's not always enough to reliable write to raw files.

Re: Metadata for RAW files

Remco, he is talking about writing metadata to a sidecar file, not to edit
the raw picture itself. What he is trying to do with RW2 files, I tried with
CR2 pictures and works just fine.

Even if editing RW2 is not possible with exiv2, should'nt the creation of
sidecars be possible with this format? All the options in the metadata
editor appear greyed out, as can be seen in the video he linked. Isn't that
a bug?

Re: Metadata for RAW files

I look at your video. My side, I don't have matter to write metadata in xmp file associated to raw file (nikon NEF and Fujifilm RAF).

Did you try to set the sidecar setting to "write xmp files only for read only picture", even if it shouldn't affect your ability to do this compared to your actual settings (write both).

Did you try to set credits directly from the right side tab (in french "légende", between versions tab and map tab), even if you need to create a metadata model to do this (preset of author name, contact, credit...) ?

Could you provide a test raw file here to see if other could set metadata to your file (or not) with their digikam installation ?

Am Montag, 22. Juli 2019, 01:29:05 CEST schrieb Rafael Linux:
> Well, the bug is worst than I was thinking. For some reason, Digikam do not
> let user to change metadata for RW2 files (Panasonic Lumix RAW files). The
> best way to show what's happening is this video:
> https://fromsmash.com/rw2-digikam
>
> I have all permissions on the folder and the RW2 files. If I do the same on
> a non RW2 file on same folder, I can change metadata.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://digikam.1695700.n4.nabble.com/digikam-users-f1735189.html

Re: Metadata for RAW files

And indeed, I can't set metadata with "edit metadata" tool located in "element" menu like Rafael can't.

But, I succeed to set metadata for these file using the "legend" right side tab. To do this for credit author copyright, it seems you have to create a model of metadata (not needed for title, description and keywords), but, as an alternative, you could consider to use this method waiting for a solution to this bug.

I look at your video. My side, I don't have matter to write metadata in xmp file associated to raw file (nikon NEF and Fujifilm RAF).

Did you try to set the sidecar setting to "write xmp files only for read only picture", even if it shouldn't affect your ability to do this compared to your actual settings (write both).

Did you try to set credits directly from the right side tab (in french "légende", between versions tab and map tab), even if you need to create a metadata model to do this (preset of author name, contact, credit...) ?

Could you provide a test raw file here to see if other could set metadata to your file (or not) with their digikam installation ?

Am Montag, 22. Juli 2019, 01:29:05 CEST schrieb Rafael Linux:
> Well, the bug is worst than I was thinking. For some reason, Digikam do not
> let user to change metadata for RW2 files (Panasonic Lumix RAW files). The
> best way to show what's happening is this video:
> https://fromsmash.com/rw2-digikam
>
> I have all permissions on the folder and the RW2 files. If I do the same on
> a non RW2 file on same folder, I can change metadata.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://digikam.1695700.n4.nabble.com/digikam-users-f1735189.html