The waters are not muddied with time. The waters are muddied because the history is muddy. Is "Jeep" a brand or a vehicle or something more (an idea)?

This is my approach. History is rarely as clear and simple as it is often portrayed. The muddiness is where things get interesting. Truths sometimes can be surprisingly easy to revoke.That is why I will not take AMC's word as the final say for what the Wrangler really is. While it must be considered, this is not the end of the discussion. Kaiser & AMC lost control of that discourse when Jeep (like Harley) developed a loyal counter-culture following. That is where the Real Jeep is. This is why Jeep has managed to survive this long despite being bounced through 5 manufacturers. Jeep survived both because of and despite Chrysler. Jeep is bigger than a corporate brand and a corporate history.

I fully agree that the CJ is something special and unique and sadly incompatible with our modern world. But it is only part of a larger continuing story.

I really wish that they would go back to the CJ or YJ and stop making the jeep so modern and comfy it really takes the character and fun out it. I hope someday they come to their senses

Not jeep specific, but an interesting thread from somebody who purports to represent a manufacturer talking about a new, sort of back to basics (some stuff (e.g. safety related) can't be avoided) offroad offering:

Not jeep specific, but an interesting thread from somebody who purports to represent a manufacturer talking about a new, sort of back to basics (some stuff (e.g. safety related) can't be avoided) offroad offering:

Those guys need to follow Mosler/Trenne approach to building super cars but apply it to "Jeeps" and it'd be a niche success.

__________________
He's an angel dressed in oilskins; he's a saint in the "Sou'wester,"
He's a pluck as they come, or ever can;
He's a hero born and bred, but it hasn't swelled his head,
For he's just the U.S. Government's hired man.

I really wish that they would go back to the CJ or YJ and stop making the jeep so modern and comfy it really takes the character and fun out it. I hope someday they come to their senses

I don't really understand your problem with comfort. I bet your house has AC, hot water, and electricity. If someone told you to come to your senses and get rid of all of that you would probably think they were crazy ( im speculating, hell you could be a mountain man for all I know). Like Bob Dylan said "For the times they are a-changin"

I don't really understand your problem with comfort. I bet your house has AC, hot water, and electricity. If someone told you to come to your senses and get rid of all of that you would probably think they were crazy ( im speculating, hell you could be a mountain man for all I know). Like Bob Dylan said "For the times they are a-changin"

Many many of us feel that we collectively are becoming soft and unable to deal with adversity or discomfort. Its all a part of the underlying feeling that America is losing its strength and character. Everything is provided for us and the young people don't appreciate it yet feel entitled. Some will argue that a comfortable Jeep is a small symptom of the larger issue.

Maybe its no different than when our grandparents used to walk uphill to and from school trudging through 8 foot high snowdrifts in the sweltering sun all the while being attacked by wolves. Or maybe we have finally hit the tipping point...

I have a comfy A/Cd house and truck but I like the change of a stripped naked YJ.
It's like the difference between staying at the Waldorf Astoria and backpacking the appalachian trail. Both have their place.