nice pics i just wonder why people would gut an alembic and turn it into a freakin Les paul! leave it an alembic ........Imagine me putting Barts or Emg's into Old#12.....half the club members would disown me!

AHHHHHH, but your holy toma hawkness, they have not hancuffed you. I did not want to chime in, appreciating your right to bloviate, however, they have a job to do as you have certain priviledges to leave messages on this forum. Alembic has the right and business acument to protect their brand, and not promote others. I have learned a lot from many of your posts, and fallen asleep at many of your ramblings. The point the moderators I believe are trying to impress on all members, is that good taste and decorum still apply. Many of your ideas are wonderful, but if you choose to utilize another luthier or copmany to make a dream bass of yours, why blow it in Alembic's face. I do not know if you own your own business, although a clue is that you do not, since brand protection does not seem important to you. I wish you peace and love, and lots of pieces and loves, and perhaps an expanded ability to really listen when others speak or post. You add value at times, and sometimes you don't. Sometimes the moderators leave me alone, once in a while they don't. They have a job to do, we have posts to do. All in all, this forum is still a damn great place. Let's keep it that way.

Great guitar tone is quite different to great bass tone. The active electronics are not the best option for some people to achieve the tones they desire. For some things, only the humbuckers will do and Alembic playability with those pickups can be the best of both worlds. I know-I have one set up like that as well as one with Series II electronics.

No offense intended. It's just, well, when the same thing keeps happening.... It's kind of like the insanity definition, When a person does the same thing again and again, looking for a different result, and continues to do it, that's insane. What is this the third or fourth time?

i like that the only thing said here that could be considered a "personal attack" is comparing hal to brett favre. christ, i hate that guy. brett favre, that is. and what exactly is a "duty moderator"? shouldn't it be " as your moderator, it is my duty to..." eh, whatever.

I know Hal has been a bit eccentric at times on the board, and he can really get to some members with his rhetoric. At this price range this should be expected. We are all eccentric to a degree, or this wouldn't be.

I think all options are open and valid when we are seeking our tone or musical voice regardless of the instrument manufacturer. However I'm sure like many here, putting non alembic guts into an alembic body feels kind of like being unfaithful as if the person was committing audio adultery against their pure alembic. I would also imagine that unless you were as big as Gerry, you would lose shed loads of money on a future sale too.

However we probably don't feel guilty when we transplant alembic electronics into a non alembic instrument. Maybe it's a snob value thing because Alembics cost thousands of pounds so to replace some of the expensive innards with pickups and electronics that are much much cheaper and presumably inferior seems wrong, whereas to put alembic guts in a much cheaper instrument is like we are doing it a favour.

... I just had a sad but interesting email and conversation with yet another (now former) Alembic Club member who has left the site for good in disgust. That person explicitly asked not to be identified, nor to copy/quote the email text.

Perhaps in time, that person's absence will be noted; perhaps not. Perhaps that person will be missed; perhaps not.

For any who care, however, I was told it would be okay to mention the issue that led to the person's decision to leave the site.

The punch line was that "it's not a fun place anymore."

Part of the frustration pertained to the topic of trolls. Actually, that's not quite correct. It had to do with a specific troll -but naming that troll might be considered "an attack", so the troll shall remained unnamed.

The frustration pertained partially to frustration over interactions with the troll -how, on the one hand, many people who it might be hoped would know better choose to feed the troll, thus encouraging the troll to do what trolls do when fed (continue being trolls and continue being fed); part of the frustration was over the fact that, when people choose not to exercise option A for dealing with a troll (ignore/don't feed the troll) and exercise option B (identify the troll for what they are, possibly with appropriate indignation and/or condemnation), that will be held against them by the "moderator(s)."

The perception of the person leaving was that the "moderator(s)" is/are worse than the troll himself. The troll himself can come and cleverly and successfully wreak havoc with impunity; but calling the troll out and expressing the natural irritation and indignation that some may experience can not be permitted. Thus, the victims of the troll are effectively silenced, while the troll can push, pull, prod, and provoke.

Whatever. The absurdity of it all seems lost on many here. Censorship in the name of civility is a contradiction that not only undermines its supposed goal, but in fact encourages the exact opposite of it. This site would be infinitely better off allowing "personal attacks" than prohibiting/censoring "offensive" communication(s).

The Alembic Club has lost a lot of intelligent and wonderful contributors; actually... it's chased them away. And as long as it continues to treat the adults who come here like they're in kindergarten or elementary school -by subjecting their communications to thought-police "moderators" -it will continue to do so.

Good luck with that. Hope those who are willing to interact under these conditions are happy with the consequences. I guess the thinking is that those who simply aren't willing to put up with that don't matter, and their absence won't be missed.

I know there is a double digit number of such individuals -because I've had over 10 people email me (in response to posts I've made and my position on this issue) and they all say the same thing: it's not fun here anymore because of the thought police "moderators" and their intelligence-insulting generic lines that implicitly attack the intelligence and character of posters here -ironically in the name of civility. (Such as, "what XYZ wrote may not have been their intention" and/or "as your designated censor, it is my duty to remind you that the thoughts you've expressed are forbidden," etc.)

It is a sad spectacle that those who lack the maturity to engage in adult interactions -including sometimes heated tempers and even "personal attacks" succeed in taking away eliminating the precondition of such discourse for those who do not lack that maturity.

Speaking for myself, I have no fear of being subjected to "personal attacks"; I learned a rhyme called "sticks and stones" several decades ago, and took it to heart long ago. "Personal attacks" not only don't hurt me, but are ultimately constructive. If/when, on rare occasions, an attack is warranted, it can serve as a wakeup call that I'm being a jerk or insensitive. If the attacker is being a jerk or insensitive, it presents the opportunity for me and/or others to point this out, and indeed, on more than one occasion, I've experienced people apologizing for "personal attacks." On more than one occasion, I myself have apologized for something I've said/written. Such examples can and do lead to better understanding, stronger relationships, and personal growth.

On the other hand, censorship -in the name of civility- undermines/prevents all of this.

Censorship is worse than any "personal attack" anyone can level at me, and is far more offensive. It undermines and negates some of the most important and wonderful benefits of online forums. I would much rather hear the honest opinions of people here -however "offensive" they may be- than to know I'm only seeing/hearing "what is permitted."

Hey, Tom Zimmerman and I were wondering if you ever got your Darkstar back after the unfortunate fiasco a few years ago...? I've been hoping for you, and have never forgot it -though I never expected to see it. Did it make it back to your hands? I hope so.

I agree with this: "I think all options are open and valid when we are seeking our tone or musical voice regardless of the instrument manufacturer."

And in the case of Jerry Garcia: in my listening experience, Jerry's tone is unique, clear and beautiful. And he did it without Alembic pickups! And that's the bottom line: whatever works!

"Feeling guilty" about modifying your instrument in order to get a certain sound is a very strange concept to me. Anyway, one can always save the old parts just in case... I can understand being cautious, and understanding that a well-designed instrument is a combination of parts that were meant to go together. But that shouldn't stop experimentation for the purpose of better sound.

I think some people are frustrated with the purity of the tone on an Alembic guitar. They may not have the patience to work with the electronics that make an Alembic guitar sound the way it does. So they put in a couple of humbuckers with a sound they are familiar with, and they are happy. Which is okay...

So this is a topic about modifying Alembic instruments. It's something I have thought about for a long time.

As long as it's done thoughtfully, I can't argue with someone further pursuing their custom dream, after all, the instrument is now theirs to do with as they please.

By thoughtfully, I mean not clipping pickup connectors off the pickups you're removing. Routing carefully or covering previous routings nicely. I actually think the guitar that started this thread didn't do a bad job of it from what I can see in the pictures.

I've been thinking about electronics and pickups on new custom builds too. We made a Tribute for a customer a few years ago with non-Alembic pickups. I didn't want to do it at first, but then I had to consider that it wasn't my guitar anymore, and I shouldn't make the customer buy our pickups and electronics just to get them ripped out later, the replacements possibly not being installed carefully. It's not that I can offer any advice on what such a guitar will sound like, but yeah, just like Maple fingerboards, if you know what you want that's awesome and we will build it.

Intellectually I realize that it's the right thing to do. But emotionally, I still have the response I've heard from many others of "Gasp! What happened to that poor guitar?!"

Les Paul is the first (and honestly only) great guitarist that comes to my mind who primarily used low impedance pickups. I'd be interested to hear of some more though.

I've long thought that I would love to have a custom guitar with two Alembic pickups and a Alembic Volume, Pan, Filter setup. But I'd also like to have a P-90 in the middle position on a completely separate circuit with it's own output jack. These two setups sound different from one another, but it would be absurd to say one is better than the other. They are two different colors on a palette. I eventually sold my Alembic guitars because I didn't like the way they interacted with many of my effects (which were by and large optimized for passive guitars), not because the electronics were too complex. If Alembic is willing to do something like this (which I never thought they would), then I might start saving my pennies for an Alembic, rather than just buying the electronics and asking the other custom builder I've been contemplating to drop them into one of his instruments. Of course, I've got lots of pennies to save.

Having just read the rest of this post, agian it seems that an innocent observation escalated into the absurd. Okay, I would never pull the electronic heart of my MK out and replace it with anything else(other than Alembic innards) but I have placed Alembic electronics in my P bass..no one cried about that. An as far as censorship, I once made a comment about a certain line in a well known comedy movie and was repremanded about it. Okay it may have been out of context but it was never removed from the film(I looked at the digital remake of it) To me that made no sense but I respected the comment and apologised. Sometimes we need to be chastised for what we say, and adults are children in certain circumstances..just a bit bigger and older. I mean there are people on here who have more guitars and basses than I have clothes, children have collections of the same toy(power rangers, teenage mutant ninja turtles, tranformers etc) but we don't get on there back. Anyway it is Saturday and I am going to have a beer in my local and put the world to rights and most probably I will upset a few of the clientele who will forget about it tomorrow and we all do it again!!!

I'm with Mica: Intellectually I can understand it. However it would be like raising the hood on an Aston Martin and seeing a small block Chevy with Holley carbs and an Edelbrock manifold staring back at me !

You can never underestimate what works for different guys. I've seen guys with big money rigs, collector guitars and handmade amps that couldn't even get a decent clean sound, next to a guy with a pawnshop Aria through a Peavey Pacer that looks like it fell down a flight of stairs that was just singing . . . you just never know.

As far as complaining about the moderators, I will go with it as I'd settle for some guidance vs. the anarchy I find in other musical chats. I still feel I'm visiting the Wickershams, and every time I think of something just a bit too smart, I can just see Susan cutting her eyes at me with that look . . . . and I'm moderated !

There were a few modifications on my previous Alembic, two of which I did myself (a thumb rest that worked out nicely and replacement of the tuning machines which required the judicious use of a cello reamer) and some at the factory (refinish and adding of an omega cut). I would have gone farther if I thought it would make the bass better and have modified some of my instruments to the point where they got beyond redemption. I ended up routing out the first body of my Modulus for all kinds of preamp experiments and finally just had to replace it as my idea of creating different preamp setups on swappable front and back plates got way too unwieldy. My strat, which would otherwise be considered vintage and collectable, I refinished (now I regret that, but I got talked into it by a friend), added two preamps and routed a battery box in the back. It's a great guitar and sounds much different than it would had I left it stock. My '67 Starfire has gone through numerous mods. I'd have no compunction about doing the same to my new Series I, but there's really no need. So, I don't take mods as heresy or insult to the original maker, but I do take it as a tribute to Alembic that their work needs modification so rarely. Out of all the instruments that I have, the Series I is the only one that has no modifications.

I would probably prefer the above guitar with the original electronics, but on the other hand, I'd love to try it with the early 60s Gibson humbuckers from my ES140 (which itself only has them because of modifications!).

very interesting thread....so the bottom line is it's ok to modify your ax, it is yours to do as you wish......toma hawwk statement about moderators appeared to be in good fun (hence LOL) he is now in hibernation (again) ( i stay in hibernation most of the time but couldnt resist commenting )...moderators are human and make mistakes at times.... commenting or threatening to wrongfully shut a thread down (my opinion)...again i have really enjoyed this thread.....2 for 1....serious tecnical comments and comedy! who gets the cover charge! LOL wickerham? oh no this is a free site and all is welcome (as long as you play by site and mod rules!) LOL to paraphrase Hal....... All You Need Is Love (Lennon) Later....

Mica, I like your rational response on the thread but it leads me to a question How you differentiate these instruments in regards to which one should legitimately bear the alembic name.

1) An instrument made entirely by alembic but fitted with non Alembic pickups and electronics at the factory.

2) an instrument made entirely by alembic but after purchase the current owner replaces the innards with non alembic pickups and electronics.

3) Either instrument being described as Alembic in a sale on ebay, craigs list etc.

My own view is that I think as long as the person who has the instrument keeps it then can be considered an alembic albeit modified. If I was considering purchasing either, being described as Alembic would feel like misrepresentation, which begs the question; what constitutes an instrument worthy of the alembic name, the body or the soul ( pickups & electronics)? or something else.

You pose an interesting question. For what it's worth, I'd answer it like this:

#1) Built by Alembic but with non-Alembic electronics is defintely a "factory custom" Alembic. The mixture would definitely be reflected on the "birth certificate". In terms of resale valuation, it's higher than if the mods were made by a third party, but I would guess it would be lower than with stock factory electronics because, even with the birth certificate, it will be of questionable lineage, plus the cost retrofitting standard pickups and electronics would be so extraordinarily high.

#2) Started life as a standard Alembic, then retrofitted. It's still an Alembic, but it's a "modified" one. If the original electronics are no longer available or retrofittable, it's probably has very little resale value. If somebody was trying to sell this as an unmodified Alembic, then it will have zero value; as a modified one, it sort of depends on the modification, but will greatly degrade the price. The problem here is that restoration cost again - if you have taken $2000 of Alembic electronics out and replaced them with $300 of electronics, then you can assume you'll lose $1700+ off the top.

#3) Touched on what it should be called in the other two writeups. I do think that it's an Alembic in any case with qualifiers.

#4) You didn't ask about #4, which I think you're just as likely to see on eBay - What do you call a Fender Jazz bass that's had Alembic electronics installed (not Activators, but the real deal). I would say that that instrument's NOT an Alembic, but is modified with Alembic electronics and probably would sell considerably higher than what it was before, although less high than the cost of the electronics.