We'll all have to wait and see >>> 30-January! Once the official launch event takes place, the carriers will start showing their prices. I hope they shave a little off the top to help push the new devices.

No such thing around my end, contracts have never been adopted, we have probably 99% prepaid users and the rest are post paid, no contract as such, handsets are always purchased full price. Carriers do try to sell SIM locked phones sometimes, but even the price of those ones are not far from full price. So what ever the cost, we'll be paying the full monty as usual!

Death may be the King of terrors... but Jesus is the King of kings!Dwight L. Moody

In Canada, we will be lucky if the price is not CAD599.99 off contract. There is no smartphone worth more than CAD250.00 off contract in my considered opinion.

Don't the companies disclose what the cost is to build these phones? Most of what I've heard (haven't looked up any real info...just going by what I've heard) is that the manufactured cost is in the $200-$300 range. At your valued price of $250, they wouldn't make any money on the sale of their product. Why do you feel that the retail cost should be in the same realm as the manufactured cost?

Don't the companies disclose what the cost is to build these phones? Most of what I've heard (haven't looked up any real info...just going by what I've heard) is that the manufactured cost is in the $200-$300 range. At your valued price of $250, they wouldn't make any money on the sale of their product. Why do you feel that the retail cost should be in the same realm as the manufactured cost?

Because 100% of revenue earned by the wireless carriers should be from the data and voice plans for those on contract. The smarthones at the factory are much less than your claimed USD250.00 considering the automation employed in most factories and the relatively low wages of any human assembly line workers. As for Research In Motion their primary revenue stream has been BIS and BES data plan subscribers plus an ancillary stream from BlackBerry Enterprise Server support contract subscribers / organizations. The hardware is not a significant source of revenue although it is not a zero-sum game either.

Because 100% of revenue earned by the wireless carriers should be from the data and voice plans for those on contract. The smarthones at the factory are much less than your claimed USD250.00 considering the automation employed in most factories and the relatively low wages of any human assembly line workers. As for Research In Motion their primary revenue stream has been BIS and BES data plan subscribers plus an ancillary stream from BlackBerry Enterprise Server support contract subscribers / organizations. The hardware is not a significant source of revenue although it is not a zero-sum game either.

I think that yes, they should make money on their devices. They are the ones that spent the man hours and millions of dollars on R&D to make it happen, therefore, should benefit on the up front device. The carrier mark up from there, well ok.. you can argue that but from manufacturing cost, to wholesale, to retail, the mark up here isn't out of the norm for any product out there.

As for Research In Motion their primary revenue stream has been BIS and BES data plan subscribers plus an ancillary stream from BlackBerry Enterprise Server support contract subscribers / organizations. The hardware is not a significant source of revenue although it is not a zero-sum game either.

I would have thought the RIM followers would know a bit more about the company.

From RIM's own press release:

"Revenue for the third quarter of fiscal 2013 was $2.7 billion, down 5% from $2.9 billion in the previous quarter and down 47% from $5.2 billion in the same quarter of fiscal 2012. The revenue breakdown for the quarter was approximately 60% for hardware, 36% for service and 4% for software and other revenue. During the quarter, RIM shipped approximately 6.9 million BlackBerry smartphones and approximately 255,000 BlackBerry PlayBook tablets." http://press.rim.com/content/dam/rim...ss_Release.pdf

In case you think that's an abberation, here's the third quarter results from the year before, again, quoted from RIM's own press release:

"Revenue for the third quarter of fiscal 2012 was $5.2 billion, up 24% from $4.2 billion in the previous quarter and down 6% from $5.5 billion in the same quarter of last year. The revenue breakdown for the quarter was approximately 79% for hardware, 19% for service and 2% for software and other revenue. During the quarter, RIM shipped approximately 14.1 million BlackBerry smartphones and approximately 150,000 BlackBerry PlayBook tablets." http://www.rim.com/investors/documen...ss_release.pdf

From their 2010 release:

"Revenue for the third quarter of fiscal 2011 was $5.49 billion, up 19% from $4.62 billion in the previous quarter and up 40% from $3.92 billion in the same quarter of last year. The revenue breakdown for the quarter was approximately 82% for devices, 15% for service, and 3% for software and other revenue. During the quarter, RIM shipped approximately 14.2 million devices." http://www.rim.com/investors/documen...ss_release.pdf

60% of revenue this year's 3rd quarter, and 79% the year before, and 82% before that, hardly seems "not a significant source of revenue." A person might even be inclined to say, "hardware is RIM's most significant source of revenue."

Re: BB Z10 Price?

I hope you are enjoying the sweet new feature phones that are available off contract for that price. I heard they can even send sms now.

I would expect $599 off contract, any less then they are leaving money on the table.

you need to do some phone shopping - you can get some "feature” phones that do email for less than $100 most of them work better than a pre-bbos7 devices.

RIM is in a position where they need to quickly increase the footprint of BB10 in the market place.
Apple is not even in the same market as RIM right now so pricing your device any where near the iPhone will be stupid. Joe Consumer would not even think twice about which phone they would buy.

You guys need to remember that average consumers don't care anything about the name BlackBerry, and if the do it is more than likely a negative feeling. They are going to want a phone that either can do what their current 2 year old device can do better,or what their friends new phone can do. Even if BB10 were to lauch with all the apps on other platforms, even if RIM announces a new Ecosystem, and even if overnight all the big companies changed their apps to support BB10.... (lot of ifs). BB10 is an unknown product, with a questionable future. Thus it needs to be priced to reflect that in the beginning.

I would have thought the RIM followers would know a bit more about the company.

From RIM's own press release:

"Revenue for the third quarter of fiscal 2013 was $2.7 billion, down 5% from $2.9 billion in the previous quarter and down 47% from $5.2 billion in the same quarter of fiscal 2012. The revenue breakdown for the quarter was approximately 60% for hardware, 36% for service and 4% for software and other revenue. During the quarter, RIM shipped approximately 6.9 million BlackBerry smartphones and approximately 255,000 BlackBerry PlayBook tablets." http://press.rim.com/content/dam/rim...ss_Release.pdf

In case you think that's an abberation, here's the third quarter results from the year before, again, quoted from RIM's own press release:

"Revenue for the third quarter of fiscal 2012 was $5.2 billion, up 24% from $4.2 billion in the previous quarter and down 6% from $5.5 billion in the same quarter of last year. The revenue breakdown for the quarter was approximately 79% for hardware, 19% for service and 2% for software and other revenue. During the quarter, RIM shipped approximately 14.1 million BlackBerry smartphones and approximately 150,000 BlackBerry PlayBook tablets." http://www.rim.com/investors/documen...ss_release.pdf

From their 2010 release:

"Revenue for the third quarter of fiscal 2011 was $5.49 billion, up 19% from $4.62 billion in the previous quarter and up 40% from $3.92 billion in the same quarter of last year. The revenue breakdown for the quarter was approximately 82% for devices, 15% for service, and 3% for software and other revenue. During the quarter, RIM shipped approximately 14.2 million devices." http://www.rim.com/investors/documen...ss_release.pdf

60% of revenue this year's 3rd quarter, and 79% the year before, and 82% before that, hardly seems "not a significant source of revenue." A person might even be inclined to say, "hardware is RIM's most significant source of revenue."

Revenue and profit are two seperate beasts. Revenue is all money coming in. Profit is revenue minus cost. Even if they sold phones at hardware cost, device sales would make up over 50% of their revenue. I'd be much more interested in seeing what % of profits came from hardware vs. software (where cost per customer is typically much lower).

They need to be at $99 on contract and $499 or less off contract. If they charge $250 on contract, they are as good as dead. Only the most dedicated blackberry fans would pay that, and they need to attract new customers. No one non-RIM diehard is going to pay more than an iPhone or GS3 for the Z10.

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