Out of Body, Roger

I was there. But I, like, wasn't there. I was floating. I was looking at myself from outside of myself.

If it hasn't happened to you, it's likely happened to somebody you know. And whether or not you believe it, about one in ten people report having had one. "Out of body" experience, it's a dirty word in many circles. Which is perhaps why pilots call it "G-LOC" (gravity-induced loss of consciousness, pronounced "G-lock" not "glok"). Turns out this kind of experience (call it what you want) occurs quite frequently among fighter pilots. Producers Ann Heppermann and Kara Oehler bring us the story. We'll hear from pilots Tim Sestak, and Col. Dan Fulgham on what it's like to lose yourself, unfortunately for us skiddish passenger-types, while flying a plane. Finally we'll hear from Dr. James Whinnery, who simulates G-LOC by placing pilots in giant centrifuges. His research monitors their brain activity as they accelerate to speeds inducing this loss of consciousness. But Doc Whinnery isn't just a scientist, he's a subject. And his research has taken him to some surprising places.

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Comments [18]

Don Chapin
from Talent, OR

I know I'm opening a can of worms and may be criticized heavily from this post, but I differ strongly with the premise (in a synopsis a friend sent me) that only 1/10 experience such phenomena, as Abraham Maslow's life-long investigative team found that a majority of people experience something similar, called "peak experiences"... that's also why I've posted my personal 50-some "peak experiences" at lprww.org and continue with my Healing Earth Team results/observations at lprww.com. Too many people have these experiences and simply pass them off as "weird," a "fever," or a physiological phenomena and dismiss any connection with them as "a normal human experience."

We run a sensory deprivation center in Baldwin Park / Orlando Florida and regularly hear of all kinds of similar experiences from our 'floaters'. Our tanks have 1000 lbs of epsom salt and water solution at skin temperature; after a few minutes floating without gravity, in the dark, in water the same temperature of your skin, your brain begins to do all kinds of wonderful and unusual things as it no longer has to deal with the 'physical' side of reality. Most everyone comes out feeling incredible, some with very fascinating stories. I really enjoyed this podcast. It was interesting to hear the mind body relationship described as a conversation. Exploring your mind without the g-force required under the experiments in the podcast can be a life changing experience.

2 years ago, age 48, I took my 12 year old son to Kings Dominion to ride the Intimidator 305 G-Force rollercoaster. I'd always been a roller coaster lover and not afraid to binge ride. Upon the park opening, we ran to the 305 and rode it. We laugh and agreed it was awesome and went right back in line to ride again. Upon the conclusion of the 2nd ride, I told my son on one particular turn, I had actually "grayed out". This had never happened to me before and was, understandably, a bit disconcerting. We then proceeded to go on all the other coasters and "extreme thrill" rides in the park including the dead drop ride which simulates free falling for about 3-4 seconds (similar to skydiving before the shoot opens-also something I've done). We concluded our visit with one last ride on the 305. When approaching the aforementioned turn, I experience a full-fledged dreamlette where I was amongst my friends, partying, laughing and having a good ol' time. It felt like it lasted a solid 2 minutes and only when we banked the next turn, did I remember "Hey wait, I'm on a roller coaster." The next day, I couldn't go to work because I felt hung over as if I had drank copious amounts of alcohol the night before. Something I theorized afterwards was that repeated gforces to the brain is cumulative and each exposure increases the length of the dreamlette period-similar to the pilot in your story and pondered if it has long-term deleterious effects on thinking or memory.

The reports of sudden, intense dream-like states remind me of experiences people have on Salvia Divinorum. You're conscious, aware; then, blam, a feeling of being deeply asleep and dreaming, complete with physical movements. Seems those experiences and the out-of-body thing have some common links; would be interesting to find out what exactly.

Wow. I thought this was a fluke. I have a disorder "Neurocardiogenic Synchope" whereby I occassionally loose conciousness due to a sudden drop in blood pressure when standing up on a tilt table at a 70 degree angle. It is very similar to the effect on pilots and I was told NASA may be studying it. One day I had a very similar "out of body" experience where I found myself floating in space. Completely aware of the stars, planets etc. but, unlike a normal dream, completely unaware of my sense of self or the passage of time. I was completely at peace and since then I've had this sense that I'm not afraid of what lies beyond death. It was profound. I'd be curious if these researchers are looking into this disorder and if any studys have been done related to Lucid Dreaming. Similar states have been reported as part of certain lucid dream states. I'd like to hear more on these topics. Fascinating and now I don't feel I'm crazy or alone in having had such an experience.

this is the first time i have heard rational people share their experiences about lights, tunnels, etc. without a religious explanation. this happened to me 54 years ago while experiencing a traumatic delivery of my son. i have never had anyone explain this absolutely real to me event. it included out of body as well as a rushing towards a light which resulted in a feeling of knowing the secrets of existence..i experienced pts sydrome for decades and now i can understand that my brain was confused about being separated from my body. i guess huge amounts of ether and other drugs probably played a part. it was a horrible way to experience a death, but bearable because i am here to remember it. thanks for this fascinating show.

Our minds have a running reality simulation running all the time and its core to being coordinated and able to move well. We do a feedback loop that corrects the predicted reality against sensory input. If the feedback loop is out of sync by seconds we'll be confused and have out of body experiences. Under the blood starvation stress I believe this simulator is running out of sync (slower?) from real time.

I once experienced the light at the end of thetunnel when i overdosed on drugs 30 years ago. They thought I had died of rabies i wentto the morgue but woke up Inside a softblack tunnel where there was no sound and no pain It was tempting to stay there butI knew it meant I would die. I saw a tunnelwith a light at the end and realized thetunnel was my throat and my awarenesswas below my throat and the light wasthe light from the living world which I couldsee through my mouth. It was an extremelyhard climb but I wanted to live.From thereI was taken to a mental hospital and I hadheavy hallucinations continuosly for 3 months. I liked your radio show its amazingwhat our minds can do.

Just listened to podcast. Loved the story. I can't believe you didn't ask this question though: Did Dr. James Whinnery do any tests to determine if there was an actual out of body experience or just the perception of it. In his actual experience he talks about seeing himself walking down the hall. Well the 1st thing I would do is have someone write something on the subjects back and see if the subject could say what it was. My assumption would be no, that the mind was only using the information it had to produce the sensation, but if they could actually see that would be quite the WOW factor. At the very least it would be an easy test for confirmation.

I thought that “out of body” was normal to high performance athletes. I trained and alpine (snow) ski raced to a high enough level that I could push my speed to a level that surpassed my minds ability to be in constant command and control, and then I just trusted my body and muscles to do what they were trained to do and my mind watched from out of and behind my body, looking ahead for any chances coming up to go faster or need to slow down and then I would mentally reach inside my body and tell it to get ready to adjust to the upcoming change. That is to say, I trusted my body to do what it was trained to do and then put my “out of body” mind to work looking ahead in the race course for any need or opportunity to change what I wanted my body to do in the future.

And I just assumed that was the norm for athletes like martial arts fighters, ballet dancers, and everyone else who trains their body to a very high level. Train to trust the muscle memory and then the mind can look ahead and pay attention to what is coming in the near future.

Most people don’t have to think about walking, after they learn how, they just do it, and they put their mind to thinking about other things while they are walking, they trust their muscle memory to do the walking process. The mind and body are doing separate things, but now I wonder at what point a person becomes consciously aware of his mind being “out of body”, what makes that happen?!?

I've just listened to this show via podcast, so I know I'm 6 months late. I'm curious if any of the neurologists interviewed have any thoughts about how so called dissociative anesthetics affect the brain/body interaction. A friend of mine has said that it is much most more out of body then numbness type of anesthesia.