After a week of being told how the situation has "improved" in Iraq --- with a compliant corporate media, as usual, all too willing to continue their five year service as Bush Administration propagandists at large --- "all hell broke loose" on Sunday as the 6th year of our War on Iraq commenced; at least 60 died in attacks on the Green Zone and elsewhere around the country and the 4,000th U.S. troop was killed for reasons that remain unknown.

At least 97% of those deaths occurred after George W. Bush's spectacular televised landing on the aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln on May 1, 2003, where he proclaimed face-to-face with our troops, and on TV to the world --- while standing in front of an enormous banner reading "Mission Accomplished" --- that "Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."

He was then, as he always has been, wrong. About absolutely everything.

As the 6th year of his disgraceful, criminal lie continues, we associate ourselves at this somber landmark, with blogger and Middle East expert, Juan Cole, who asks today why it has happened at all...

A roadside bomb killed 4 US troops, bringing the total dead in Iraq on the American side to 4,000. The thing I most mind about the deaths of those brave warriors is that our government has not been honest about why they died. We don't know the answer to that question. We've been lied to.

The Bush administration still has not told us why they died. It was not to protect the US from "weapons of mass destruction" (see [this earlier item]; that was a fabricated cover story). It was not to spread democracy. It may have been to nail down a major petroleum-producing country for US geostrategic goals (ensuring its resources were available to the US and could be denied if necessary to growing rivals such as China). If so, one has to ask whether the objectives (which were hidden from the American people) were the top priority for the US, or only for the petroleum industry; whether those objectives have been achieved; and whether there was another way to attain them. No such debate has ever been held. Was it in part to ensure Israeli security...? If so, that should be stated, it should be debated. Even the former head of Shin Bet did not agree that it increased Israel's security. It is not right to ask men and women under arms to die for their country without telling them exactly how they are benefiting their country. For all we know, they have died so that Bush and Cheney could throw goodies to their "base," so that Halliburton could escape bankruptcy and Hunt Oil could get new development contracts.

In the Summer of 2005, Cindy Sheehan, who gave the life of her son for reasons still unknown, was shamefully excoriated by supporters of George W. Bush for having the temerity to demand an explanation of the "noble cause" he claimed that her son Casey had died for. She never received that explanation. Nor have the American people --- not even the ones who attacked Cindy Sheehan so brutally, violently, and mercilessly on Bush's behalf.

Those willing to give their lives, and the lives of their sons and daughters, for our country deserve far better than they have received. Those willing to spend those lives, with a smirk and a "so?" --- without even the courtesy of an honest explanation as to why --- must be held accountable for these most unforgivable of crimes.

We fear such accountability will never come.

The BRAD BLOG stands by those who have fallen and with the millions who have, for so long, had the courage to ask "why?"

Not to dishonor anyone, but this is not about US, OUR troops, OUR losses.
Many of our troops may be victims, but they are all perpetrators-
and though we may honor them, no ceremony should go on without FIRST honoring and begging forgiveness from our millions of victims.
Light candles for those we have killed, light them for the dead, read the names of the burned, and the children born with DU disfigurement, and remember and honor first the tortured and the displaced. and THEN, honor our troops.
If we learn one lesson from Winter Soldier, it is exactly this.
To honor our troops and disdain our victims is to dishonor our troops and further disgrace ourselves.
Thank you,
DR

This is a song by our band Kabong about an American soldier who is having difficulty adjusting with civilian life and trying to deal with the intense emotional scars from what he saw on his tour of duty. Now he fully understands that he was sent to fight by the misleading loser leadership of the murderous criminal Bush administration who continues to lie about the war to the American people at every turn. A random meeting with Ms. Cindy Sheehan changes his perspective enough to pursue the truths in his life and carry on.

Architects and Engineers for 9/11truth have investigated false flag war games on the 3 FEDERAL World Trade Tower Buildings that exploded and collapsed into dust in a matter of seconds as well as the flawed government reports describing "their" reasons supporting the destructions. Now there is outstanding evidence as presented by Architects and Engineers for 911truth that the 3 Federal World Trade Towers in NY could have only collapsed and imploded under the circumstances by planted bombs controlled demolition style. They further conclude that the 911 Commission Report, the Nist report, and a 3rd government report are all fabricated lies although completely supported by the US corporate mass media. The so called cast of voluteers who made up the reports are people who received up to 40 million dollars in grants from the government to tell their lies. Do think they had an invested interest?

Our CD is not ready quite yet, however this song cannot wait any longer. To listen to the song Gone, click on the link below. Bradblog rocks!

Conspirators meticulously planned the catalyzing events of the past 7 years years in advance including the continuing dilution of democracy. They knew, understood and relied on electronic privacy, hence, no more privacy.

To honor our troops and disdain our victims is to dishonor our troops and further disgrace ourselves.

We do not "disdain our victims" --- in fact, I consider those victims to include our troops. Nonetheless, honoring our fallen troops on the day in which the 4,000th has fallen in Iraq, is perfectly appropriate, and does not distract from the others who have been killed...in Iraq, in Afghanistan, including "coalition" troops, contractors, et al, along with the civilians and conscripted members of those forces unlucky enough to be on the other end of the U.S.'s misguided wrath.

Sergeant First Class Smith
Cpl. Jason L. Dunham
One Soldier and One Marine who both with the up most valor gave there lives for this country while carrying out there duties with in there respected units. As a former Marine myself going through training we would learn about the Marines before us that has sacrifice themselves diving on a grenade in order to save there fellow comrades. Read More Here

Now back to reality, according to the US Department of Veteran Affairs that number is actually many times greater than 4000.

4000 are only the ones that have died ON the field of battle and even that number is bias.
The REAL casualty numbers are close to 74,000 and rising fast expected to reach at least 200,000 within the next 2 years.

Over 70,000 deaths, and over 1 million disabilities among American soldiers attributed to Iraq Wars says U.S. government data

by Peter Tremblay and Libertyforlife.com researchers

""According to U.S. media reports, there are well below 5,000 U.S. soldiers who have been killed in Iraq. However, this data appears to be very misleading. Why? Because many tens of thousands of American soldiers have apparently been killed to-date, as a result of being exposed to radiation poisoning from the indiscriminate killing machines of U.S. military weaponry. Ironically, the only Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) that Americans soldiers have found in Iraq are "Made in America".

U.S. investigative researchers have discovered an official U.S. Department of Veteran Affairs official, but not well publicized count, of 73,846 U.S. soldiers who have perished as an apparent result of Depleted Uranium based bio-chemical warfare exposure. This exceeds an estimate of 58,000 U.S. soldiers who had been killed in relation to the Vietnam War.

Well over 200,000 American soldiers could be killed by 2010, as a result of the after effects of exposure to U.S. dirty bombs.

Over One million U.S. soldiers have apparently been disabled from Depleted Uranium based biochemical exposure. Over one million Iraqis have also been documented to have been killed""

Why? Has everybody forgotten that the reason for the war was clear from the outset? It went like this:

Saddam was regarded as a threat. He had a history of aggression and oppression. It was believed that he had chemical and biological weapons and was developing nuclear weapons (a view that he did nothing to dispel), and there was an army of inspectors in and out of Iraq looking for evidence.

Afghanistan was turning into a quagmire. Bin Laden had escaped. People were realising that the allied forces could not be withdrawn before a stable government had been put in place. There was no prospect of this; the warlords were squabbling and the Taliban, though it had melted away, was poised to return at the first opportunity. It looked like incompetence. Bush was going to be a one-term President like his Dad unless he and his string-pullers could come up with a good, solid Thatcher-style victory in time for the next election.
How to do it? Step forward Saddam Hussein. A perfect hate-figure. No one could possibly object to his being overthrown. The only (small) difficulty was that no one had found any evidence of the weapons of mass destruction he was reputed to own. The election clock was ticking and Saddam kept on chucking the weapons inspectors out and generally making things difficult.

In come the the Generals who point out that you can't start a desert war at any old time. Doing so in the summer months would be folly so it has to be now (February/March 2003) or wait until next year. Trouble is, delaying to next year will put the war into the middle of the election period, with no guarantee that, even using "shock-and-awe" tactics, victory would be achieved in time. So we (that is to say, you lot, with us Brits dragging along behind) had better go in now. No time to wait for another visit by the weapons inspectors: the existing evidence would have to be regarded as sufficient to justify the invasion.

The rest follows. as night follows day. There's no mystery, nothing to explain.

After Downing Street: A Resolution of InquiryThe Nation
Steve Cobble
June 6, 2005

{excerpt}

It's not exactly a news flash that the Bush Administration lied to the public before the invasion of Iraq. What should be on front pages, though, is new proof of the Bush Administration's lies brought to light by the previously unknown Downing Street Minutes, recently obtained and printed in the Times of London. (The Downing Street Memo is a transcript of minutes of a secret meeting chaired by Tomy Blair in Britain in July of 2002 to discuss preparations and propaganda before going to war. It was marked "Secret and strictly personal--UK eyes only.")

The Downing Street Minutes are deserving, in the words of constitutional lawyer John Bonifaz, of an official "Resolution of Inquiry directing the House Judiciary Committee to launch a formal investigation into whether sufficient grounds exist for the House of Representatives to exercise its constitutional power to impeach George W. Bush, President of the United States." ...

"I'll probably get yelled at by Agent 99... {Ed Note: There isn't anything that connects them but an apparent wish to smear people and so sorry to edit you too, but it doesn't do any good to edit the offense and then leave copies of it. Thank you. --99}
======================

I fail to see how you connect those 2.
What I stated is FACT based on the data from US Department of Veteran Affairs and from the The National Gulf War Resource Center.

I think any disinformation posted on the bradblog, no matter what the topic, could very well be an attempt to hurt the credibility of the election integrity movement. I am not saying that everyone who posts disinfo is doing it deliberately. We all make mistakes once in a while. That's why the retraction was invented.

The # of US dead from the Gulf Wars could very well be underreported. There are quite the number of different estimates on how many Iraqi civilians have been killed.

But from a rudimentary investigation of this story, one can see that the 74,000 number refers to all the veterans who have died since 1990. That's quite different from saying this is proof that 74,000 soldiers have been killed as a result of fighting in Iraq.

It's not my job to moderate here, so if some other folks could help me out, it would be appreciated. I don't want to be banned, because I had the gall to try to protect the BradBlog.

{Ed note: Take my word for it, one of us would contact you if we wanted you to policing whose comments were acceptable. --99}

Pretending or denying that 74,000 US soldiers have not died since 1990 as a direct result of being exposed to depleted Uranium & various other chemical agents is not protecting the Bradblog, its protecting known war criminals.

Same with the 1.2 Million dead Iraqi's just from Iraq occupation #2 plus another 1/2 million from sanctions since Iraq #1.

Then add in the millions that are going to die from exposure to tons of depleted uranium basically FOREVER.

This isn't disinformation by any stretch of the most vivid imagination.

"But from a rudimentary investigation of this story, one can see that the 74,000 number refers to all the veterans who have died since 1990. That's quite different from saying this is proof that 74,000 soldiers have been killed as a result of fighting in Iraq."

If by "rudimentary investigation" you mean simply reading the article that was linked which clearly states exactly that then I fail to see what it is you are trying to call "disinformation"?
Says right in the header that it is referring to Iraq warS

Surely you don't deny the amount of Depleted Uranium that has been used and scattered by the wind all over Iraq?
Surely you don't think DU wont or hasn't killed indescriminately already and for 1000s more years?
So what exactly are you calling disinformation?

""Libertyforlife.com researchers document: "What the government is doing is only counting the soldiers that die in action on the ground before they can get them into a hummer, helicopter or ambulance. Any soldier who is shot but they get into a vehicle before 'the die' is not counted."

These war criminals are whom is spreading Reich wing propaganda and disinformation best to do a bit more than a "rudimentary investigation" into these bastards your time will be better spent.

To find out the real reasons for the Iraq Invasion, Congress needs to investigate just how many shares Halliburton Stock have been owned by members of the George W. Bush's Family.
I still believe that the primary reason for the invasion of Iraq was to prevent the collapse of Halliburton by creating a massive no bid contracting opportunity for the company. If you look at the financial reporting from 2002-2003 when Halliburton subsidary KBR was under bankruptcy protection, it looks very much like Halliburton was at death's door.
Why you may ask, would the Bush Administration care whether or not Halliburton went under? Many people have pointed to Dick Cheney's ownership of shares in the company and the scandal that would have resulted from the revelation of his creative accounting practices as CEO of Halliburton but that is only part of the picture.
Nobody seems to have considered that members of the Bush Family may have received a substantial number(28,000,000) of shares of Halliburton stock when the company acquired Dresser Industries in 1998. If Halliburton had gone under this would have been a rather significant loss. The ownership of Halliburton stock may also explain why George Bush is so hot to eliminate the Capital Gains tax. Imagine having to pay capital gains taxes on stock with a basis calculated from 1928 when Prescott Bush as a partner in Harriman Brown Brothers took Dresser Industries public.

"Cheney was Chairman and CEO of Halliburton October 1,1995-August 16, 2000. Cheney's tenure at Halliburton was a disaster. He made the decision for Halliburton to merge with Dresser Industries (for $8 billion dollars), thereby acquiring Dresser's asbestos liability, which had been drastically underestimated. Cheney had miscalculated the financial devastation of acquiring these claims and the massive losses were off-set on paper by fraudulent accounting procedures, and not fully revealed until Cheney had sold his stock in Aug. 2002.

Background 1. Halliburton's audits which overstated revenues. I.e., creative bookkeeping. (Potentially illegal.) 2. Halliburton selling Oil Equipment which can be used for development of nuclear weapons to Libya and Iraq during U.S. sanctions. (Illegal.) 3. Halliburton selling Oil Equipment to Libya and Iraq through subsidiaries after sanctions and profiting from Iranian Oil.. (Immoral, possibly illegal.) 4. Cheney becoming CEO of a company which he had rewarded as Secretary of Defense and granting large contracts to Halliburton after becoming Vice President. I.e., the revolving door of power and money and power and. . . . (Conflicts of interest. Unethical.) 5. Cheney making millions from sale of Halliburton stock prior to stock losing 75% in value (due to decisions Cheney made). Although Cheney HAD to sell the stock when he did (join W. on the ticket), the bad financial information was not made public until after he sold his stock. (Unethical, potentially illegal.) 6. Halliburton overbilled government. (Illegal.) 7. Halliburton's contributions to co-sponsors of a House and Senate bill, labeled "highly controversial" by many, to limit asbestos liability. (Unethical.)

Future United States president George H. W. Bush worked for the company in several positions after the war. His father, Prescott Bush, had been a W. A. Harriman and Company executive who had been involved in the conversion of Dresser to a public company, and he served on the board of directors for twenty-two years. So Cheney Profits from insider knowledge, makes millions selling his stock, before profits drop nearly 80%, then leaves as CEO August 15, 2000, to run for President of VICE.""

And what was one of the "Asbestos liabilities" that Dresser was responsible for?

The WORLD TRADE CENTER COMPLEX and like magic that liability was all cleared up on 9/11 and instead of costing them 4 Billion they made 6 billion.
(Illegal, Immoral, and some call it TREASON)

OF COURSE the evidence was rigged. Otherwise they couldn't justify the invasion and they needed the invasion (and victory, even if only illusory) for Bush to have a chance of winning the 2004 election (except he didn't, but that's another Brad Blog story). But the answer to the question Why did 4000 Americans (and many others, including Brits) have to die? is: So that George Bush could be a two-term President.

While I realize you were using a bit of satire (of a sort) in your explanation for why we went to war, and that most folks realize that, there is one point you made (satirically, I believe) that I just want to be clear about. You said:

The election clock was ticking and Saddam kept on chucking the weapons inspectors out and generally making things difficult.

While I know you likely know this, it needs to be pointed out, since it's an oft-repeated fallacy, but Saddam *never* threw out any of the inspectors. He didn't do so back in the 90's, he didn't do so prior to this Iraq War either.

I didn't try to smear anyone. A person posted that 74,000 US troops have died from the Gulf Wars. I didn't call the poster disinfo. I called out the post for containing disinfo. Sorry if I didn't make that clearer.

I also don't understand why "conspiracy website" was replaced with Alex Jones. I had conspiracy website in quotes. Is prison planet not considered a "conspiracy theory" website? How did I break the rules by writing "conspiracy website?"

Plus, how come you deleted what I wrote, and also when it was reposted, but then you still made a comment on what was deleted? How is the reader supposed to understand what happened? If you're gonna delete what I wrote, why make the comment?

Ed Note: There isn't anything that connects them but an apparent wish to smear people and so sorry to edit you too, but it doesn't do any good to edit the offense and then leave copies of it. Thank you. --99

I wasn't trying to smear anyone. It looks like I am the one who has gotten smeared.

I'm trying to get you to stop calling people "conspiracy theorists" through the back door by citing someone else as their fellow. I'm sure you don't think you're smearing people, but that's exactly what you're doing. Just knock it off. You can disagree without the insults. It's really not that hard.

And, actually, if you think the people you've called out lately are trying to give Brad a bad name, THAT is a conspiracy theory.

I'm trying to get you to stop calling people "conspiracy theorists" through the back door by citing someone else as their fellow.

You missed the point. Do you think 74,000 US soldiers are dead from the Gulf Wars? As for the other thing, someone wrote that he can influence the weather with his own mind. I don't have the right to question such a statement?

I also run a forum devoted to figuring out chemtrails. That kind of rules out your interpretation of some back door ad hominem.

I'm sure you don't think you're smearing people, but that's exactly what you're doing. Just knock it off. You can disagree without the insults. It's really not that hard.

Seeing that you deleted what I wrote, the reader is going to have to take your word for it. If you had looked into this claim of 74,000 US deaths from the Gulf Wars, you could have added to the discussion instead of scrubbing my posts.

And, actually, if you think the people you've called out lately are trying to give Brad a bad name, THAT is a conspiracy theory.

You are doing a lot of analysis of what I am writing, but then you delete and/or scrub, so no one can see if your moderating was appropriate. Thus, there is no way for me to defend myself against your critiques of my writing style. You are forcing me to now take screenshots of all my posts.

I didn't call out anyone. I do call out this claim that 74,000 US troops have died due to the Gulf Wars. I also call out the idea that people can influence the weather with the power of their own minds.

Sibel Edmonds and her case have completely dropped from our gaze? Along with all the other MSM omissions that conceal the greater crimes our gov commits? Then in 5 years some asshole from WaPo or NYT (who pushed or covered up the story to being with) will write a crocodile tears article moaning "oh if we'd only known there was nuke proliferation by our own in the St. Dept" or "oops- no WMD? so sorry, we didn't know..." It is there job to ask.
When are we as a nation going to stop this rubbish? What will it take to push us to action?

You don't have a right to use Brad Blog as your forum to bash people who make such statements, to belittle them by calling them names and suggesting they not be allowed to speak.

Seeing that you deleted what I wrote, the reader is going to have to take your word for it.

It's that or continue to let you blow your own horn at others' expense, call them names, overtly or subtly, but none the less determinedly.

...you could have added to the discussion instead of scrubbing my posts.

I don't want to add to your attacks. I want them to stop.

Thus, there is no way for me to defend myself against your critiques of my writing style.

Belittling people --- continually suggesting they don't belong here --- is not a "writing style". You even stated you knew you were in danger of getting into it with me. So don't play innocent victim now.

You don't have a right to use Brad Blog as your forum to bash people who make such statements, to belittle them by calling them names and suggesting they not be allowed to speak.

I didn't bash, belittle, or call anyone any names. It appears to me that you are suggesting that I am not allowed to disagree with this idea of 74,000 US deaths or alleged telepathic abilities to control the weather.

It's that or continue to let you blow your own horn at others' expense, call them names, overtly or subtly, but none the less determinedly.

Again, since you have scrubbed my posts, the reader is forced to take your word for this or scratch their heads.

I don't want to add to your attacks. I want them to stop.

I'm not attacking anyone. I am attacking statements and sources that are false. It's not fair of you to delete/scrub my posts and then pass judgements on them.

Belittling people --- continually suggesting they don't belong here --- is not a "writing style". You even stated you knew you were in danger of getting into it with me. So don't play innocent victim now.

I didn't belittle anyone. As for my innocent comment about you yelling at me, I never imagined you would be so unfair. On Leave it to Beaver, Wally and Beaver used to always make mention of their dad yelling at them. Did he ever yell at them? No, he didn't. Again, I have emailed Brad with concerns about your moderating. What you are doing here is nothing short of chilling free speech.

I didn't belittle anyone. Unless you can show how I did that, it's not fair how you are wielding your moderator powers over me.

Gnostics suggest that the world may be currently run by an alien artificial intelligence

by Peter Tremblay

{excerpts}

Dr. John Lash documents that the ancient Gnostics warned of an “artificial man”, that seeks copy and mimic reality, that also lacks a “divine soul“ or “nous“. This “artificial man” that in today’s modern era, humans might colloquially refer to as “cyborgs”, lacked a spiritual interconnectedness, which inspires empathy in humans. This "artificial man" was described as being guided by a cold mechanical consciousness, driven by ego, and the mathematical calculation scenarios of an artificial intelligence. As an artificial intelligence, these alien consciousnesses that were without a "divine soul" originating from a biological consciousness, lacked empathy....

Dr. Michael Salla's research that in many ways complements Dr. Lash's, also reveals that there are beings who look like humans, who live on Earth in pre-existing technologically advanced human civilizations, and those who live off-world, or in other time-space-thought continuums that continue to visit Earth. These alien but apparently human-being-like species include both apparent "benevolent" groups who Dr. Salla documents as operating as a "celestial peace corps", and apparent humans who have been witnessed by abductees as colluding with Manipulative alien groups.

They do not count any of the deaths that occur after the wounded have been picked up for medical attention, whether it is five seconds or five years post initial injury. They don't count the suicides. They don't count the grossly deformed dead babies from their parents' exposure to DU. They don't mention the huge percentage of Gulf War vets on disability and the staggering numbers who have died from it since living through the initial attacks either. If the government were not lying about all this to begin with, people wouldn't have to be trying so hard to estimate what the exact truth might be.

At times, particularly when I'm not available 24/7 (as has been the case over the last two weeks), Agent 99 has to make judgment calls on what may or may not be a violation of the rules. Her judgment is usually quite good, though there are occassions when there are tough calls.

I wasn't around for the original Socrates/99 incident from a day or two ago, and have only been able to partially follow this one.

I've already asked 99 privately to NOT edit/modify anybody's posts. Appropriate protocol by her (or me, or any other mods) is to warn commenters first of posts that violate the rules, remove them entirely when necessary and replace them with an "Ed Note" as to why they were removed and what specific rule was violated, or to add an "Ed Note" with a warning and/or clarification of something in the post.

That said, we've often got to go with our guts, and try to be as transparent about it as possible. When we make mistakes in that process, we try to correct them where possible.

I've asked 99 to un-edit a few points above where she can, so the mystery about what Socrates said or didn't is clarified.

She was doing her best to maintain the rules, as I believe Socrates was doing in trying to follow them.

Everybody's patience here, and ramping down of accusations on all sides would be much appreciated.

We try to keep the comments as open as possible without registration, moderation or any kind of censorship, even when we disagree with the content. We try to be as transparent as possible in the process. We usually get it right, we don't always succeed. But we're trying, because open discussion is always the best way to go.

Apologies for the confusion, and hopefully we can get back on course ASAP (including vigorous debate and disagreement about issues rather than process, where possible.)

"I did consider the source. This isn't a new story. It has been out for a while and has already been debunked."

Again, the SOURCE is the "US Department of Veteran Affairs" and The National Gulf War Resource Center and you I'm afraid have "debunked" nothing whatsoever.

Also its LibertyFORlife.com which is not some insurance company in Canada.

I'm getting so sick and tired of seeing the word "debunked" from people that haven't a clue that I could just scream.

I assume you did not bother to read the article nor did you watch any of the videos I linked because what you say proves to me you couldn't have.
Watch them, read them.

I didn't mean to start some kind of scuffle I simply posted what I thought and still do think is valid information.
If anything I feel quite certain that 74,000 is LOW for deaths in the last 18 years from Depleted Uranium and various chemical agents soldiers and their families have been exposed to.

As Agent 99 stated in her last post we know for a fact they are lying through their teeth about actual casualties/fatalities, for that matter basically EVERYTHING so to believe the 4000 number is quite naive.

I'm getting so sick and tired of seeing the word "debunked" from people that haven't a clue that I could just scream....

I never made a mean comment like this. I never made a mean comment about anyone. But this person has certainly made one towards me. If there are gonna be rules enforced, they should be done so impartially.

There were no 74,000 US deaths from the Gulf Wars. This story has been out for months. The 74,000 refers to the total # of soldiers/vets who have died since 1990.

But if you want to find the Veteran's Affair report with the link and proof, then I will eat crow. I remember this story when it first came out, and I looked into it. Seeing that no one else is helping me out, and I am getting put down for thinking this story is a hoax, it is up to you to provide the link with the proof.

so to believe the 4000 number is quite naive.

Since you are making this personal about me, even though I have been sticking strictly to the story, if you want to scroll back to one of my comments, I agreed that the 4000 could very well be an underreporting.

The burden of proof is on yourself. Find that primary source, and make your case, and I'll stay openminded. But to be honest, I looked into this before. It turned out not to be true. The same thing came out years ago from The Barnes Review.

U.S. investigative researchers have discovered an official U.S. Department of Veteran Affairs official, but not well publicized count, of 73,846 U.S. soldiers who have perished as an apparent result of Depleted Uranium based bio-chemical warfare exposure.

It also gives a thumbnail graphic of some report somewhere.

There are no links to the report, and there is no larger version of the graphic.

I think what Socrates is asking for --- justifiably --- is that "US Department of Veteran Affairs" report that is used for the basis of the claim being made.

I'm sure you know well how often the media gets the story wrong (sometimes intentionally, sometimes because they are lazy and/or misinformed).

I ask folks to all of them, including myself, to a much higher standard. Don't just believe what you read, make them (and me) prove it.

Brad, socrates, you both should back off and do some research if you're going to leap on this stuff. Whatever the exact number, it is vastly higher than the government lets on. You are pouncing on someone who is, however accurately or inaccurately, making a number of righteous points... maybe it's testosterone... maybe it's something else. Whatever. I find it extremely distasteful and I want you to stop... until you can take a good objective look at why in the hell you want to make a hairy deal out of someone's good faith effort to communicate stuff he feels is important. I did research for someone doing an article on DU last year, and it is at least as appalling as the use of that figure was meant to convey here. I think if you look into the scattered, the multifarious pieces of literature on DU, you will begin also to believe we have lost, if not precisely this many, certainly hugely more than should ever have been lost, and definitely hugely more than 4000. Plus, Nunyabiz has asked a couple times that people watch the videos he linked, and if you're not willing to do that, you should not be climbing all over him for his cite. Either of you.

99 is right and in fact you all have made valid points. You should question factual evidence and their source when someone states and or introduces this information into an open speech blog like a lawyer. Intellectually it's difficult not to attack the messenger at times for many reasons except I agree that it's the best way to keep control of a open forum.

OK. While the number of dead US men and women called to fight under the leadership of Commander In Chief Bush and President of the Senate Cheney, it doesn't change a damn thing to them or lead to their conviction for war crimes. No matter how many die under their leadership, these 3rd rate murderous destructive loser pirates who still control US elections, who successfully used false flag war games in this country on 9/11/2001 still remain in power completely unchecked.

You ALL must check out Richard Gage's 2 hour presentation at Architechs and Engineers for 9/11 Truth to fully grasp how the steel concrete Federal World Trade Tower building #7 across the street from the other World Trade Towers collapsed into itself in 6.5 seconds although not hit by an aircraft. There are so many great fact challenging the so called official government explanations of lies. He is a very credible speaker.www.ae911truth.org

The guilty lives at the White House. They live around Washington DC and many sit in Congress.

There really is no number of dead people that will bring anyone back or change the fact that the same 1% elite people and their big corporations who support BU$$$$$$$$H have already bought and paid for the next president. Clinton, Obama, and McCain are owned by the same people. If you think otherwise, then you should carry on believing that these 3rd rate lying loser pirates in the despicable murderous Bush administration and their accomplices are ever going to be held accountable or prosecuted for ANY of their crimes committed during their terms as Head of State. This includes failure to protect the interests of the American people, the Constitution prior to Bush adminstration alterations, and the interests of all living species. Lastly, who is in the electoral college? Ask Al Gore.

Have to correct 1 statement from the previous because We are talking about people who gave their life while in serving in military service.

While the number of dead US men and women called to fight under the leadership of Commander In Chief Bush and President of the Senate Cheney matters, it doesn't change a damn thing to them or lead to their conviction for war crimes.

I dedicate this song called The Careless Fire to ending the Bush administration government war. These death loving rusters who have done everything to sell our country and world out to line their pocket have successfully raped it's wealth almost to the point of national bankrupcy and world destruction. All the world must know the US people are exposing 9/11 war games as a false attack by Bush government to help advance their takeover agenda and will completely expose their version of 9/11 history as blatent lies. The Bush administration and people responsible for the false flag war games on 9/11/2001 need to be prosecuted in a world court along with their US corporate mass news media monopoly that has been involved in their criminal coverup of the truth from the get go. This monopoly on news must be broken up and the insulated Bush administration destructors must be imprisoned for consecutive life sentences.

We can complain about the election system all day but if we do not effect change to the crooked system and revert the governmental changes Bush government made during their tenure, our bacon is gonna be burning real soon by The Careless Fire.

My mistake, I thought the entity that gathered and compiled the data would always be considered the "source".
When I went back to get this .pdf guess what? It has been scrubbed from the site I am not surprised.

No matter there is a plethora of information about Depleted Uranium weapons, how much has been used to date, its effects on the human body.
Anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together to get a spark can easily deduce that when you atomize 1000-2000 TONS of U-238 which blows in the wind and is inhaled or contaminates wounds, gets in the drinking water etc and you have Millions of Iraqi citizens and since 1991 over 1 Million US soldiers with the reported huge number of them coming back with "Gulf War Syndrome" which is nothing but exposure to Depleted Uranium and various other toxic chemical weapons then 74,000 dead in 18 years because of this exposure is very realistic, in fact its quite conservative.
56% of all Gulf War 1 troops are on permanent disability, there are 518,739 Vets of both Wars on permanent disability with very high rates of cancers etc.
These soldiers were all killed in the war just not instantly.
In all previous wars those totals were approx. 5-10%.

Lets just suppose that "terrorist" spread 1000 tons of toxic dust over several large US cities a decade ago and 100s of 1000s of deaths, cancers, debilitating illnesses, birth defects were the outcome of that "terrorist action" now what would your view be, would that be considered a crime against humanity by the US MSM?

While I appreciate the passion of Nunyabiz and Agent99, that doesn't change the fact that the source was bogus. Without the actual original report, there is no way to use it.

People should note how I have attacked the message, not the messenger.

You guys aren't helping your cause by attacking folks on your side. It's better to take constructive criticism from an ally, than to let the dark side use honest mistakes or planted disinfo against us.

I remember reading through that pdf when it first came out months ago. While it raises questions, I believe that Tremblay and this Clive Boustred executive turned "radical" need to be scrutinized. That was who I was attacking, not yourselves.

Trying to figure out how many actual US soldiers have died from the illegal war makes sense.

Good sources on depleted uranium would help the cause. We just need a sincere health expert and the data.

How much du is used?
How much is each soldier exposed to?
What effect would that have on life expectancy?

I read the truthout.org link, and that is more like it for proof, imho. Young people returning should not be dying from cancer more often than their civilian counterparts. If that can be proven, then bingo, there's proof that du is responsible. With the military denying a relationship between du and fatal illness, that is proof that the numbers are being underreported.

A link in that article is now broken. It was described as following:

April 10, 2007: Star Tribune (Minn., Mn.) reports a state Senate committee OK'd a bill providing for testing veteran national guardsmen returning from Iraq to see if dust from spent-uranium munitions has harmed them.

Testing needs to be done. I hope that law got passed or will be.

I found one du law that has been passed in Wisconsin, but it seems to be mostly about having to inform soldiers about the health concerns with du.

A bill aimed at informing military veterans about the dangers of depleted uranium has become law.

The legislation, authored by state Rep. Tom Nelson, D-Kaukauna, was signed by Gov. Jim Doyle on Friday.

"With the governor's approval, Wisconsin is now a national leader in addressing depleted uranium contamination and protecting our soldiers," Nelson said in a press release. "AB 75 is the most comprehensive state law on the books. It will ensure that our veterans receive the assistance they deserve."

According to Nelson, depleted uranium is used in munitions in military conflicts and evidence indicates soldiers exposed to contamination are increased risk of biogenetic effects.

"Thirty years ago, returning Vietnam veterans were reporting symptoms that were later found to be caused by Agent Orange," Nelson said. "Today's veterans are reporting similar life-threatening medical symptoms, caused not by Agent Orange but by another substance, depleted uranium."

How much du is used?
How much is each soldier exposed to?
What effect would that have on life expectancy?

Approx. 1200-2000 TONS and counting from reports that I see.

Depends on where that soldier was, could be zero, could have been enough to kill him on the spot.
Could have been a trace amount enough to kill him 5-10+ years later with whatever cancer or organ failure. Logically at least 80% of everyone there on the ground had at least some exposure.

Again depends on exposure, could have died immediately if in close proximity to a shell vaporizing, also depends on what size particles are inhaled or whatever manner such as a open wound. The smaller the particle the more deadly it is as you would likely inhale more small particles plus 2000 nano size particles have more surface area than 20 .01 micron particles.
Larger particles can be flushed out of the system easier also.
This also can be passed on to family members and causes severe birth defects.

One look at his site will explain a lot about the mentality of the person your dealing with here, I understand that he has been banned from numerous websites including chemtrail sites, he can not even get along with his own kind, I find it telling that he has not mentioned the fact that he operates his own site / forum on which he rails to high Heaven about everyone being "Paid Fakes & Secret Government Agents",etc, etc.

My opinion of this poster "socrates" is that he is something of a major conspiracy wacko so let the good readers be advised and be beware of just who they are dealing with.

There are indeed "Paid Fakes & Secret Government Agents" There are some that are blatant, for instance the entire US Corporate Mainstream Media is a "conspiracy" of disinfo artist 100s even 1000s of them spewing full blown Reich wing propaganda right in your face on a daily basis. I am thinking at this point about 60% of the US population has finally figured out they are being lied to continuously. But that leaves at least 40% of the population that are so ignorant they cant even see the most blatant in your face clear as it can possibly be conspiracy of disinfo freaks ever to be assembled.

The trick is trying to decipher what is real & factual from what is total propaganda, usually this just requires good common sense.
Sometimes it requires quite a bit if research and at least an IQ above room temp, sadly in this country today that group is dangerously small.

In most big cities today less than 50% even graduate High School!

Some people "Socrates" here for example have been sidelined into paranoia. He at least is trying to figure out what is real and what is BS, sometimes people even reasonably intelligent people are fooled by something they stumble upon.
Personally I see nothing whatsoever that would lead me to believe anything about "Chemtrails" but nothing would surprise me anymore.

9/11 Truth has been infiltrated by disinfo shills, the No Planers, Holograms and Space weapons are clearly disinfo in order to attack the message & this gives the MSM propaganda the opportunity to place everyone that questions 9/11 into that tiny group of manufactured crazies.

The Oil Companies although mainly Exxonmobile are actively attacking the 1000s upon 1000s of concerned climatologist/scientist with a web of pure BS, even though very tiny in comparison they have LOTS of money and paid shills in the right places so they are having an impact on the truth about Global Warming.
It amazes me the "intelligent" people that have been sucked into the Oil Company propaganda and now question what 98% of the scientific community are saying because that 2% has so much money and influence behind them.

That's a given for anyone with a brain but not everyone that takes a different point of view or disagrees with how you perceive the world is a Paid Fakes or Secret Government Agent as seems to be the case with this 'socrates' individual, I believe defining him as being only "Paranoid" stretches the sensibilities of that common sense thing you referred to that people should if the could exhibit and pursuing through his http://www.allaircraftar...involved.freeforums.org/ website gives one pause about this persons sanity to say the least, 'socrates' obviously thought better than to add his website link to his post here in order to keep it from the "Brad Blog" readers so how is he any better than the"Paid Fakes & Secret Government Agents" that he accuses others of being, why does he keep secrets, is he a paid fake or a government disinformation agent, can a person that makes so much noise really be trusted, after all, we do not even know who this person is, do we?

I find the irony of it amusing, sad and somewhat hypocritical that this person can bring himself to even mention other people in the context of being involved with so called "conspiracy[s]" when he himself is in fact so deeply immersed in a conspiracy world of his own choosing, while true that he may be trying to figure out who is real for those that are otherwise as he calls them, paid fakes / government agents / strawmen, whatever, I doubt seriously that he is proving anything other than his ability to enrage those people that he labels as such who for no other reason than not agreeing with his particular thinking on issues that he seems to believe that he and he alone is the only correct authority.

Well, I say to each there own beliefs but there is something to be said for having the ability to be flexible in ones thinking, I believe that it's a good thing that the ridged thinking of these 'socrates' of the would exhibit is not the norm or we would surely not have evolved to date past the openings of our caves and our Neanderthal past.

Being conscious of the obvious disinfo that is spread 24/7 is just good thinking, letting yourself become a victim of another persons radical, extremist and paranoid thinking is not good or smart, in fact it is quite stupid, I site George W. Bush as a prime example of such, we all know exactly how well he has taken care of America with his King Of The World thinking,cowboy attitude and right wing flat earth followers that support him and his criminal cartel.

There is much in this world that is far more important than "Conspiracy theorist" like 'socrates' carrying on about chemtrails, we have people being killed in a war that in my opinion should never begun, 4000+ and counting because Bush & Co. lied to sell it to us, Iraq had WMD, they could reach the U.S. coast with drones, lies and more lies on top of yet more lies, the entire Bush administration was and is built upon colossal lies which they are still trying to force down the publics throats, why does this criminal Bush and his co-criminal band of thugs still walk free, that is the question?

Sorry, sock, in point of fact, I missed Mike's comment until it had been up for a day... got sidetracked at the wrong time I guess. Still, I felt he was being ironic and the post was old enough that it didn't matter so much.

Yes as I said earlier the .pdf file from that source was scrubbed from that site, that should actually tell you something right there.

But there are hundreds of other sources that show what Depleted Uranium does and how much we have used since Gulf War 1.
We also know how many soldiers are on permanent disability from just Gulf War 1 & 2.

More than 74,000 have died due to exposure to DU & various other chemical agents out of the 1 million plus, within the next 10 years these 20-25 year olds are going to suffer probably another 200,000 dead because of cancers and organ failures due to their exposure to DU.

The only difference between that dead soldier and the one shot in the head is he lived 10 years or so in pain before the injury he incurred on the battlefield killed him.

Sorry, sock, in point of fact, I missed Mike's comment until it had been up for a day... got sidetracked at the wrong time I guess. Still, I felt he was being ironic and the post was old enough that it didn't matter so much.

"Some people "Socrates" here for example have been sidelined into paranoia.

I am asking you nicely Agent99 to be a fair moderator. I never attacked anyone. What's with the double standards?"

I fail to see how that is some horrible insult or an "attack".
I also think your website concerning "Chemtrails" is proof enough that indeed you might just be a wee bit paranoid.
and after all this hoopla over nothing the simple fact remains that what I posted was factual.

WAY more than 4000 have died, it is AT LEAST 74,000 that have died in Iraq since 1990.
In Gulf War 1 there were way more troops on the ground however they were only there a week or so, Gulf War 2 however has exposed many many more soldiers for a much longer period.
The death toll for Iraq will exceed Vietnam by at least 300% or more.

I haven't "attacked" you at all.
Right now you are just going on & on about nothing.

Meanwhile what I said in my original post is correct just the one .pdf file was scrubbed is all and that was after I had posted it.

I check everything I post usually in triplicate to make sure.
FACT is that the US has dropped TONS of Depleted Uranium onto Iraq, Afghanistan, Bosnia which has caused 1000s upon 1000s of deaths and will continue to do so for 1000s of years.

Why not discuss that instead?

The original premise of this thread was to highlight the alleged "4000" dead. I guarantee you that it is WAY higher than that.
Hell just the ones that died within 48 hours of being wounded would bring that count far beyond 4000.
That 4000 number are the ones that were dragged off the battlefield dead, if they made it to a Vehicle, Helicopter and alive to a hospital they weren't "counted".

This is what these bastards do with everything, they use creative number crunching.
The Unemployment rate is WAY higher than 5% is closer to 11-14% not to mention the "Underemployment" rate meaning those that lost a very well paying job only to be able to find nothing but maybe $6 hr job I bet is in the 30% range.
We have been in a recession for 2+ years already yet they keep saying we "may" fall into a recession.

The entire government BOTH democrats and Rethuglicans are crooked as hell and complicit in war crimes, crimes against humanity, Election Fraud and Treason.

"I'm trying to get you to stop calling people "conspiracy theorists" through the back door by citing someone else as their fellow. I'm sure you don't think you're smearing people, but that's exactly what you're doing. Just knock it off. You can disagree without the insults. It's really not that hard."

COMMENT #31
Agent 99

""I don't have the right to question such a statement?

You don't have a right to use Brad Blog as your forum to bash people who make such statements, to belittle them by calling them names and suggesting they not be allowed to speak.

Seeing that you deleted what I wrote, the reader is going to have to take your word for it.

It's that or continue to let you blow your own horn at others' expense, call them names, overtly or subtly, but none the less determinedly.

...you could have added to the discussion instead of scrubbing my posts.

I don't want to add to your attacks. I want them to stop.

Thus, there is no way for me to defend myself against your critiques of my writing style.

Belittling people --- continually suggesting they don't belong here --- is not a "writing style". You even stated you knew you were in danger of getting into it with me. So don't play innocent victim now.""

COMMENT #61

Agent 99

"Looks like you can dish it out, but not take it???"

______________________________________

I could not have said it better.

I'm sorry Agent 99 for mentioning anything about Socrates annoying, aggravating, disruptive, agitating, vicious personal attack history across he internet at various sites / blogs / forums or the fact that he is a CONSPIRACY THEORIST by definition of the term but I read about it all at his own site, http://allaircraftarenotinvolved.freeforums.org/, again I'm sorry for bringing these facts into the Brad Blog, I guess ignorance is bliss here, I'll not bother with trying to inform you Agent 99 or the readers of the Brad Blog of this Socrates history which goes to his character or lack thereof, he is all yours, enjoy.

I really can not help but wonder why someone who operates there own conspiracy website as Socrates does has not made a post on it since April 2nd but spends plenty of time here at the Brad Blog whining about how unfairly he is being treated seems rather odd to say the least.

I know from his stats he does not have many followers or members at his site but you would think he would want to spend hi time there with the ones he dose have instead of cruising the web for real blogs and forums, I guess he must get lonely at his obscure chemtrail site but then what do I really care, moving on now.

I think your right Agent 99, from what I have read at Socrates site he can dish it out but he can't take it at all, this guy is big trouble, count on it.

Hi people I have a question to ask.As I am sure most of the people here have seen the horrible pictures of babies being born with masive deformations from DU in Iraq has anyone seen any links to our soldiers babies being born with these deformations here in the U.S. ?
If anyone has any info or knows of any links to this happening here because of thier time spent on thier tour and also being exposed to DU would you kindly post this here ?
Much thanks in advance.

There aren't too many that ever make it to news reports because the so called Media wont usually print anything that could hurt their bottom line of war profiteering, if they do its limited and only done once in order to cover their ass.
From then on its omissions, distortions & cover ups.

""Increased rates of immune system disorders and other wide-ranging symptoms, including chronic pain, fatigue and memory loss, have been reported in over one quarter of combat veterans of the 1991 Gulf War. Following the first gulf war, scientists at the Basra hospital and university have monitored the incidence of leukemia’s and other malignancies among children in the Basra area, and of congenital malformations in newborn children. The data for the period 1990-2001 show an incidence increase of 426% for general malignancies, 366% for leukemia’s and of over 600% for birth defects, with all series showing a roughly increasing pattern with time.""

""I suspect the military-industrial complex will stonewall admitting the effects of DU for as long as possible to avoid accepting responsibility, not to mention liability, for their reckless actions. When John Hanchette, a founding editor of USA Today tried to publish stories about DU, he received a phone call from the Pentagon asking him to desist. He was later replaced at USA Today. The World Health Organization's chief expert on radiation and health had his report on DU suppressed. Dr. Asaf Durakovic, then a colonel in the U.S. Army, was asked to lie about the risks of DU to humans. So the stonewalling will continue, even as cancers rage among our soldiers and Iraqi civilians, even as our soldiers die, or commit suicide to escape the horrific pain, even as birth defects proliferate across Iraq and among our veterans.

But what of that? DU is a moneymaker for corporations like ATK. And turning DU into munitions helps the government solve a big problem-what to do with mountains of DU it must store and, by law, keep out of the environment. What better solution than giving it free to the munitions makers, who then sell the munitions back to Uncle Sam at a handsome profit? Everyone wins.

Unless we continue to fight for the truth, and to cry out for justice, our soldiers and Iraqi civilians will suffer and die in increasing numbers. Estimates of how many may die in Iraq are truly staggering - up to 11% of Iraq's 27 million population. This is a massive crime against humanity that remains in the shadows.

""Those individuals (military and civilian) at or near target areas are most immediately affected by DU contamination, especially if they remain there for an extended time. During the 6 week 1991 Gulf war only 467 U.S. personnel were wounded and about 150 killed. Out of the 580,000 military personnel who served in that war, 325,000 were reported to be on permanent medical disability by the year 2000. It was also reported then the number was increasing by 43,000 each year. In fact, the annual increases were even greater, and by 2004 the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (the VA) reported over 518,000 Gulf-era veterans to be on medical disability(Edit mine:This report appears to have been scrubbed from the VA website as far as I can tell). It also reported over 500,000 veterans were homeless. Studies were also done on veterans whose wives had normal babies before the war. It reported two-thirds of post-war births of those studied had severe birth defects, such as missing brains, eyes, legs and arms and blood diseases.""

IF that can be confirmed then TWO THIRDS of post war births "of those studied" were affected.

I just keep going on & on with literally hundreds of such articles & reports but you get the gist.
Plain old common sense tells you that when TONS of radioactive material (DU) is dispersed into the air in tiny atomized particles blowing in the wind all over Iraq that 100s of 1000s of people both Iraqis and US military are going to be infected, PERIOD no ifs ands or buts.
It takes sometimes 2-5 years to show up and even when it does the Military/US government and Mainstream Media cover it up & lie about it like they do everything else.

Sadly none of this is ever going to stop until WE THE PEOPLE stop it and do so by the 10s of millions. If that means literally tar & feathering all of Congress then so be it.

and you still keep on & on about nothing yet still refuse to address what it was you were wrong about in the first place.

I think I have more than proven my case, however even on Bradblog most just really don't give a Shiite.
No wonder why DU is still being used by the ton and is basically committing Genocide against Millions, we just don't care.

We would "rather" believe the 4000 count lie than the 74,000 and soon to be 100s of 1000s reality.

The topic of this thread is the people we have lost in Iraq and their families. We've already made hash of it here, but if we don't get back on topic, I'm shutting down comments on this thread. This is my last warning.

The topic of this thread is the people we have lost in Iraq and their families. We've already made hash of it here, but if we don't get back on topic, I'm shutting down comments on this thread. This is my last warning.

What a magnanimous kind of guy, I think Socrates has a crush on you Agent 99, don't go and get to excited now. (: =}

Maybe closing down this thread isn't such a bad idea, that will teach the peons to stay on topic, after all, your are on a power trip according to Sock and we all know that his word is golden, right???

Oops, there I go, I went off topic, gosh, I'm sorry I'm not conforming , NOT, I usually start hold up middle fingers when people tell me to shut up or what I can and can not say, no matter who they are but if it makes you feel like your in control Agent 99 I'll bug right on out of this thread and leave you and Sock to it, you all enjoy it.