Jerm

An interesting occurence is the folks who say that God won't force Himself on anyone and then when faced with Philippians 2:9-11 say "Well yeah, they'll confess but after God forces them too." Those are the fun conversations

Logged

Tim B

An interesting occurence is the folks who say that God won't force Himself on anyone and then when faced with Philippians 2:9-11 say "Well yeah, they'll confess but after God forces them too." Those are the fun conversations

LOL Sounds like a catch-22 if you ask me.

Logged

Sadie

these scriptures teach that everyone will bow their knee to Christ and confess him as Lord (Satan and his demons included) not for salvation, but submission to the King of kings and Lord of lords. The greek word to confess means to acknowledge. Everyone, Believer, Unbeliever, Satan and his demons will eventually acknowledge Jesus willingly or unwilling. They will bow their knee to Jesus as their Lord and Savior or as their Judge, either way they will bow in submission.

these scriptures teach that everyone will bow their knee to Christ and confess him as Lord (Satan and his demons included) not for salvation, but submission to the King of kings and Lord of lords. The greek word to confess means to acknowledge. Everyone, Believer, Unbeliever, Satan and his demons will eventually acknowledge Jesus willingly or unwilling. They will bow their knee to Jesus as their Lord and Savior or as their Judge, either way they will bow in submission.

Hi Sadie. I know the usual thought process is "after death, it's too late". What are your thoughts? For instance, the KJV translates this will occur 'by' the Holy Ghost, whereas more literal (accurate) translations say 'IN' the Holy Spirit.

Can someone "IN" the Holy Spirit, acknowledge/confess that Jesus is their Master (accurate translation of 'Lord') and not be saved?

"..because if you acknowledge with your mouth Yesu as the Master, and have faith in your heart that God has awakened Him from among the dead, you will be saved [from Destruction]....it is with the mouth that this person is acknowledging this, which is going to result in Salvation [from Destruction]." (Romans 10:9,10 The Christian Bible, 1991)

"Whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord (Master) shall be saved" Romans 10:13

The knee joint of all joints is known to be the most painful of all..tis why knee capping,[ shooting the knee is done].the pains horrendous, not only is it a Lowering of the Head, but ya cant walk if the knee is bowed..kinda [painful submission] if you will

and dont we read that NO man can call the Lord Lord Lest he be blessed with the spirit?

1Cr 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Blessed is the WHOLESOME TONGUE

Pro 15:4 A wholesome tongue [is] a tree of life: but perverseness therein [is] a breach in the spirit.

[messed up trying to quote, then FIXED by goofy jabcat ]

« Last Edit: September 15, 2009, 05:13:16 AM by jabcat »

Logged

Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Sadie

People confess Jesus as Lord all the time, but that does not mean they are saved. (Matthew 7:21-23) They are religious people who acknowledge Jesus in their head, but not their hearts. Even the demons acknowledge Jesus as the Son of God before he casted them out of the demon possessed, but that does not mean they are saved..just acknowledging who Jesus is.

hi jabcat,

I believe God can do all things and if He decides to save people after death He is certainly entitled to do so. But.... I have yet to find a scripture in the bible that supports unbelievers being granted repentance and faith after someone physically dies. Therefore, I believe it is appointed for man to die once and then comes judgment. (Hebrews 9:27)

Your trying to connect Romans 10:9-10 and Phillipians 2: 9-11 together and they are talking about two different subjects. Romans 10:9-10 is talking about the way of salvation. If you confess with your mouth and believe in your heart..you shall be saved. Paul has already established in the previous chapters that justification is by faith alone.

Phillipians 2: 9-11 is not talking about the way to salvation, but everything and everyone bowing down before the Lord in acknowledging who He says He is... King of kings and Lord of lords. Some will do this willingly ( Believers). Some will do it unwillingly (Unbelievers, Devil and his demons) Believers will be bowing and confessing willingly and joyfullyto their Lord and Savior. Unbelievers will be bowing and confessing unwillingly and painfully to their judge. Either way all will bow and confess, but this in no way converts the unbelievers, the devil and his demons.

People confess Jesus as Lord all the time, but that does not mean they are saved. (Matthew 7:21-23) They are religious people who acknowledge Jesus in their head, but not their hearts. Even the demons acknowledge Jesus as the Son of God before he casted them out of the demon possessed, but that does not mean they are saved..just acknowledging who Jesus is.

Hi Sadie

mm.

we confess with the Tongue and from the abundance of the Heart the MOUTH speaks

To acknowledge a Master[ teacher] doesnt nessacerilly mean ,*THE One who IS their TRUE LORD*,[ as did the scribes] Therefore those who DECLARE HIM LORD, recognise HIM as the TRUTH HE IS..so too declare HIM Lord , For mine is what was mentioned prior.

ones head and hearts are united for mine..you lose your head for the LORD, your heart is where HE always have been , just hidden behind the veil UNTIL revealed

Theres a Shame to the LONG rd Home.. shall we say

« Last Edit: September 15, 2009, 05:31:06 AM by Taffy »

Logged

Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Phillipians 2: 9-11 is not talking about the way to salvation, but everything and everyone bowing down before the Lord in acknowledging who He says He is... King of kings and Lord of lords. Some will do this willingly ( Believers). Some will do it unwillingly (Unbelievers, Devil and his demons) Believers will be bowing and confessing willingly and joyfullyto their Lord and Savior. Unbelievers will be bowing and confessing unwillingly and painfully to their judge. Either way all will bow and confess, but this in no way converts the unbelievers, the devil and his demons.

I started to ask earlier, but chose a more gentle (and perhaps less effective) means. I'll ask now; on what do you base this belief? Are you sure there aren't some preconceived notions/assumptions here? How do you know the unbelievers will do it unwillingly as opposed to being captured by His presence? James.

Phillipians 2: 9-11 is not talking about the way to salvation, but everything and everyone bowing down before the Lord in acknowledging who He says He is... King of kings and Lord of lords. Some will do this willingly ( Believers). Some will do it unwillingly (Unbelievers, Devil and his demons) Believers will be bowing and confessing willingly and joyfullyto their Lord and Savior. Unbelievers will be bowing and confessing unwillingly and painfully to their judge. Either way all will bow and confess, but this in no way converts the unbelievers, the devil and his demons.

Sadie: The confession by all beings in the heavens, the earth, and the underworld is one of worship in the Name of all names. That worship is not by perfunctory genuflections, but complete union within the Name in thanksgiving and praise!

In the Christian story God descends to reascend. He comes down;.... down to the very roots and sea-bed of the Nature He has created. But He goes down to come up again and bring the whole ruined world up with Him. -C.S. Lewis

I have yet to find a scripture in the bible that supports unbelievers being granted repentance and faith after someone physically dies.

déjà vu

Quote

Therefore, I believe it is appointed for man to die once and then comes judgment. (Hebrews 9:27)

For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he lives, he lives unto God. Likewise reckon you also yourselves to be dead, indeed unto sin (once?), but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:10-11)

Quote

Some will do it unwillingly (Unbelievers, Devil and his demons) ... Unbelievers will be bowing and confessing unwillingly and painfully to their judge. Either way all will bow and confess, but this in no way converts the unbelievers, the devil and his demons.

If unbelievers didn't bow their knee and confess Jesus as Lord in Faith that comes from the heart while they were alive, why do you believe they will somehow change and do this after they die?

Sounds like quote from the RaL parable. The rich man certainly changed his opinion don't you think?

Logged

1 Timothy 2:3-4 ...God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved...John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

If unbelievers didn't bow their knee and confess Jesus as Lord in Faith that comes from the heart while they were alive, why do you believe they will somehow change and do this after they die?

Some people confess at say the age of 20. Others at the age of 50. Some at 80.My point is people confess at all ages. Why not a little after death.

Some people never confessed because the simply never believed that God exists. (Atheists)But being resurrected after death is enough proof for them to see they where wrong.There is more instead of less proof of God after death so my thought is that just because of that many people convert.

Simple question with a not so simple answer I think: What verse implies/states that the moment die you can't change, repent, etc.

Logged

1 Timothy 2:3-4 ...God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved...John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

I think the big verse (and already used by Sadie) is "appointed unto man once to die, after that the judgment". IMO, that's not taking into account numerous things, including that God's judgments bring righteousness, the Judge of the Earth will do right, judgment doesn't automatically equate to "no further dealings by God with man" - there are AGES to come, and God has a purpose for the ages.

It helps to be open and searching (at least willing to listen) to consider such things.

How long after death is that judgement?On earth by eartly judges someone can get 5 days or 500 years jails and everything between that.Why would the heavenly judge only have a choice between 0 days and eternally?Why the heavenly Judge is so limited in His type of punishment? He just seems to have fire.While the earthly judge also has corrective punishments. That's BTW what the Greek word in the Bible means. Corrective.

The verse proves nothing besides:a] Men die.b] There is judgement.

Logged

1 Timothy 2:3-4 ...God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved...John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...