Adelaide United scored an emphatic 3-1 win against the Mariners to secure second spot on the A-League ladder, and thus a chance at hosting the grand final should they beat Melbourne Victory over two legs in this major semi-final.

Adelaide midfielder Greg Owens will miss this match. He picked up his fourth yellow card of the season only minutes after coming on as a substitute against Central Coast Mariners last Sunday.

Jason Spagnuolo returns from injury and Carl Veart comes back into the side after being rested last week.

Ernie Merrick must be concerned about the form of his Melbourne Victory squad in the lead up to the finals series. Two losses in the final two rounds, most recently a thrashing at the hands of fellow contenders Newcastle, made no difference to the Victory's position on the ladder. They may have had little to play for since their round 17 drubbing of an under-manned New Zealand outfit, but you have to wonder whether they can turn it on again now that it's do or die.

Melbourne have the luxury, as they have for most of the season, of not having to make any significant changes to their match squad. Steve Pantelidis, Michael Ferrante, Simon
Storey, James Robinson and Antun Kovacic have all been promoted to the preliminary squad.

LATEST COMMENTS

Big weekend, can't wait for tomorrow night, hopefully we get a big crowd. If we can score a couple and stop any away goals, I think we're in with a big chance of getting through to play Melbourne.

Sydney 2 Newcastle 0 (19,850)
Adelaide 1 Melbourne 0 (15,500)

Sydney 2 Newcastle 0

Posted by: Brickowski on January 25, 2007 8:15 PM

C'mon Sydney fans, enjoy your Australia Day BBQ & then get out & support your team. We've been crying out for our own football team. Melbourne has shown us the way, Newcastle got 20,000 last week, Central Coast got 15,000 & is 1/20th of Sydney & Brissy got 32,000 last week as well.
Lets do it Sydney.

Posted by: Robbos on January 25, 2007 9:57 PM

With 1st and 3rd the obvious favourites to get through these next two weeks, they'll both commence on that path with score draws away from home in the first week of the finals.

SFC 1 Jets 1
The start of the end for SFC - afterwhich I will breath a sigh of relief, because SFC remains the one true obstacle to the Vics' rightful claim to the throne. Carney to hit the inside of the upright.
Crowd: 22,000

AU 2 Vics 2
AU will use up its full quota of 2 goals that I have allowed them over the 2 games - which can only mean one thing, Vics through (either by a single goal, or on away goals). Both Vics goals to be scored from the midfield, one of Thomspon or Allsopp to be substituted early. Muscat to do at least one silly thing during the 90 minutes (or shortly afterwards). Storey to add some stability and cohesion to the back four and hit a target in the midfield. Broxham to get some more game time, and push for inclusion in the starting 11 of the following week - a masterstroke which will guarantee the Vics' onward march to Victory!

See the barrackers a-shouting
Watch them give their all
For the championship's a cakewalk
For the good ol' Vict-or-eeee!

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on January 25, 2007 10:01 PM

It's been a quiet build up in Sydney town. I guess theexpectations arn't that high which I thinkis unfounded.

Sydney are a good team. They are the champions, a blue colar team of champions. Their fighting qualities have been there for all to see this season.

We could go to penalties with the Jets over 2 legs. It'll be worth the price of admission and I expect a quality show. Hope the rah rahs don't carve up the pitch tonite.

Last years experience will help AU across the 2 legs. I fancy them going to Melbourne with their noses in front. There's nothing b/n the 2 teams. In fact there's not much b/n all 4 teams, all of whom could beat each other on their day.

Good Luck to all

Posted by: Glebeboy on January 25, 2007 10:05 PM

If last weeks form continues.

Sydney 0 Newcastle 2
Melbourne 0 Adelaide 1

There are 12-15 coaches coming from Newcastle for the Friday night clash. So I guess there will be a good crowd at the game. Go the Jets!

Posted by: Dave on January 25, 2007 10:12 PM

I lean forward grabbing the leather armrest a little bit harder as Maria lets out a long, satisfied grunt. Serena's on her knees trying to delay the inevitable, her chocolate thighs pumping, straining for every ball . . .

I whack the armrest and slam my head back hard, as I blow my frustrations skywards. How the f!ck could he have missed that . . . inside the box, an empty goal and the keeper concussed with two broken legs . . .

Just another weekend of top sports action on the box . . .

SFC 1 NJs 2
NJs played well against MV and over the last few weeks have built up plenty of confidence and momentum. Just like CCM did last year and it took them to the grand final. SFC's line up changes once again, injuries, suspensions and players returning from injuries and suspensions. This will play right into Gary Van Egg's devious plans.

AU 2 MV 1
MV will bounce back from their worst game of the season, but AU will get the couple of goals they need to set up a tense second leg showdown. Muskie, Fred and Brebner need to be on their best behaviour to control the midfield or one of them might miss the home leg.

Posted by: jimboinho on January 25, 2007 11:12 PM

"'ere we go 'ere we go 'ere we go,
are the only words that we know".

The fireys have done a great job putting out the fires that isolated Newcastle from Sydney earlier in the week,& the Novacastrians will be busing & training their way past Bluegum to bolster the crowd to 25-30k with possibly more,as earlier reports on the flog of 18k pre-sold Thu. morning.It should be a great game,but both teams might be a bit too defensive,along with commited defenders & goalkeepers hell bent on keeping the score to

SFC 0 V NJ 0 (28,500)

The other game should be a cracker,end to end with plenty of physical stuff.The bill board Pipu mentioned was shown on total football(now on flog),& will only add fuel to the fire in the electric atmosphere only the boutique stadiums like a fullhouse Hindmarsh can offer (56k next week).For MV the honeymoon is over & I expect them to lift a gear,at least for this game (if they don't they'll be in reverse).AU will realise they are in the process of taking away the crown from the Cronulla Sharks,who took the crown from Perth Glory,as the biggest chockers in Australian sport.AU will be thankfull it was only

AU 1 V MV 2 (17,100)

Posted by: EDWARD JAY on January 25, 2007 11:18 PM

Well I hope it will be a resounding draw in both games so that the second legs will be the ones to watch... I hope Sydney can pull a very good crowd, may depend on the walk up on the day... which will depend on if its raining.. then the Victory need to contain Adelaide and fill the DOme next time... help persuade everyone that the stadiums shpuld be made bigger... football is addictive!

Posted by: juanpabloangel on January 26, 2007 4:31 AM

I'm hoping for a nice 2-0 cushion win by Sydney in front of 35,000+, wishful thinking but I think we can crack 30,000. Even the scoreline is wishful thinking. The cultured & skillful (Carle, Okon, Rodriguez & Griffiths)side of Newcastle up against the defensive & dour (though not in the last 3 weeks) Sydney. By biggest issue is the lack of support upfront to support Brosque, but both Carney & Coria are big game players they will fire up.

Very interesting match up between MV & AU, both sides are led well by veterans MV (Muscat & Brebner) AU (Alosi & Veart), have Brazilians, MV (Fred & Alessandro) AU (Fernando & Diego), both sides have very exciting youngsters (future Socceroos) MV (Leijer, Sarkies & Broxham) AU (Djite, Burns & Spanulo).
The differnce Archie Thomson, AU 1 MV 2 in front of a fullhouse. So I then expect a big crowd for returne leg in Melbourne to see Melbourne qualify first into the GF.

Posted by: Robbos on January 26, 2007 8:14 AM

Paul Okon the captain & central defender of the Newcastle jets. The ex Australian captain, the only Australian player that could challenge Harry Kewell as our most gifted player since 1975 (hard for me to judge pre 75).
I saw him in a Socceroos jersey 7-8 years ago controlling the midfield like I have not seen anyone do it for Australia before. Highly credential career although injury curtailed him at his peak & never allowed him to reach great heights his skill demanded.
His profile in the A-League is much less than that of kevin Muscat, who career pales into insignificant in comparison with Okon (however, i do agree his performance for MV this year has been outstanding).
My point here is that we should be enjoying what might be the end of one of the greatest socceroos who unfortunatly never made it to the World cup. He could have captained Australia to the WC last year, but poor form & injuries ended.
With me hoping for a Sydney FC win lets see Okon out in style.

Not playing in England during his paek has hurt his profile in Australia.

Posted by: Robbos on January 26, 2007 9:06 AM

Bluetongue not Bluegum.Anyway,last time I drove past it was Graham Park & had a cricket pitch in the middle.

Odds on sportsbet are quoting $6 for both SFC & NJ to win the GF,fantastic odds.AU are paying $3.25 & MV are $2.

FTA TV.The Big Match show KB mentioned on the ABC in the 60's 70's,didn't channel 7 end up buying that & then hid it away late at night.I still think of that show when the Thames/BBC theme music comes on at the end of other shows.KB knows what music I'm talking about.

Posted by: EDWARD JAY on January 26, 2007 9:11 AM

Sydney FC (1) v Newcastle Jets (0)

I'm hoping for a victory and a clean sheet for SFC but there is no clear favourite in this match. A buggered and battered SFC really have had the toughest journey to get to the semi's when compared to others. I hope TB has had the boys look at the dvd of last weeks match against melbourne and come up with some sort of plan to stop a 4-0 thrashing.

Adelaide United (1) v Melbourne Victory (3)
I'm hoping Melbourne win just because I don't want the final to be played at Hindmarsh. It is a bit of a odd sitaution though, you play for the home ground advantage but only teams that could house a GF crowd are SFC, MVFC, QLD Roar, and the NZ Knights. The Jets and mariners would probably move to Telstra, and AU and Perth...well this is no plan.

FTA TV. The Big Match show KB mentioned on the ABC in the 60's 70's,didn't channel 7 end up buying that & then hid it away late at night. I still think of that show when the Thames/BBC theme music comes on at the end of other shows. KB knows what music I'm talking about.

Posted by: EDWARD JAY at January 26, 2007 9:11 AM

Well, Well, Well, EJ we are comrades in arms "The Big Match" Thames/BBC theme music I still sing it in the shower. Da Da Da Dun Dun Da; no it just will not translate in text. But we know...!

I don't not know if channel 7 bought it or not, there is something vague in my memory about that. However I can only remember watching it on the ABC and when it ceased I cried for days after (uncontrollably) it was a big part of my life and my team mates would gather every FA cup night.

Second Generation Italians, Greeks, Australians, English, Scots, we had them all nearly all the nations of the world in one team (not in one season of course, all good lads) sounding out that theme.

And the English and Scottish lads would always bring along "Newcastle Brown Ale" (black as tar) bar b que in the cold winter months of May; oh yes it was indeed great times. (I am crying as I am typing) I have stop now and give some of my thoughts on the FINAL COUNT DOWN..!

As a SFC fan and living on the Gold Coast I am off to the RSL tonight with neighbours to watch, first leg. Although I would like to see my team win. I will not be so disappointed if Jets FC progress as I can appreciate the style of football they are trying to play.

I have to tell ya; you are 'On the ball' with Fox; I am a great believer in Fox now. I felt the pain like Pippu, when SBS lost the contract with the FFA chiefs, but it is not so bad for me now.

The reason is, it now gives me the perfect venue to watch for free... A-League every week at the RSL. I urge those who do not have Fox, seek out a favourite club, a pub, or a venue that has it.

The reasons are simple; and I can only speak for myself, it gives me an evening out with my wife (not all the time) and good friends at my local RSL.

It has been a long time that we as a group of friends have been going out and enjoying ourselves.

Starting with dinner in the Bistro and then retiring into the TV lounge with the big screen to watch the A-League.

Usually the early match and then home early. Fantastic times are here again. I will not get Fox while this lasts - there's no need to.

But with the Socceroo games I will not watch unless it is of course at a sane evening viewing time. I shall miss those games on FTA I can only hope something can be worked out in the future with FFA, FOX, and SBS.

Even a repeat viewing on SBS will do me.

KB

Posted by: Koala Bear on January 26, 2007 12:02 PM

Posted by: Robbos at January 26, 2007 9:06 AM

Robbos,
Have you not seen Ned Zelic play? Well you have made a very big statement with Okon and I agree to the point a truly gifted player and no doubt will go down in the annuals as one of the all time greats for the Socceroos.

But, I would say our Ned Zelic was our Beckenbauer, A Kaiser, A Tsar, A General for the Socceroos as he had one extra string to his bow; he scored goals from deep in the midfield.

Now, I am going to type something that is going to upset Vic.

Farina and Arnold stuffed up the Socceroos in their first year of their appointment.

When they did not make Zelic Captain and dropped him for a game, which made Zelic walk out, and never to be seen again. For a system 4-4-2 instead of playing a sweeper role with Zelic at the back. Or Okon at the back, both were capable at the time to do that as they played in Europe and new how to do it.

But Farina/Arnold team chose to do the English thing with European train styled players and it did not work.

In short they stuffed up in style, system, and player management. This was potentially the best midfield Australia would have ever had if it were not for Farina/Arnold's lack of experience to work the team.

If Eddie Thompson/Scheinflug were in charge it would have been different. We would have seen the best midfield combination for the Socceroos ever.

Both of these players were not best of friends, but both respected Thompson/Scheinflug management style. It was to me the greatest shame the way it all pan out the way it did.

We saw Ned in the A-League at his lowest point, and certainly not the Ned that got us into the Olympics when he made that run from deep in defence and scored the memorable goal against the Netherlands in injury time.

Something Okon was not capable of doing. But I am not rubbishing Okon (best passer of a ball I have seen) as a legend but there's a player that was the equal or a thickness of a thread better.

and ben willing, who the hell in the cars driving past is gonna read that stupid billboard?

Ben Willing: I don't know ... the text is too small (and not particularly witty), but good on them for doing something out of the ordinary.

Posted by: Eddie on January 26, 2007 1:16 PM

RedB,

I am pleased that we now can enjoy a laugh together and not get to serious with all Football codes; as we now, I think, we understand each other; I always like taking the piss out of friends and you get as good as you dish out.

That's always been the way, where I was brought up, at the Koala Bear Sanctuary. It is what we Aussies enjoy most; a good laugh and not to take ourselves too seriously.

And if you ever want a drop of the 'good ol' Eucalyptus Turps', let me know, it only costs me 2c a gallon to make.

SFC have signed NSW academy graduate Nikolas Tsattalios & are in talks with NZK's players Salley,Casey & Richter.Arron Timms has the story in the SMH on the web (Competing Goals for SFC Players.25-01-07),he basically says that FC are tight arseing it to leave money for some big name players.Great to see them sign a junior,but they have to sign a couple under 21er's under the A-league rules don't they?But here they go again,stealing talent from the A-league,& from the bottom club as well.
I'm a Wollongong supporter in waiting,I picked SFC as my stand in team because I felt they would be profesionally run,& I thought there main challenges may come in the ACC,a bit like Rangers in Scotland/Europe.Thankfully this did not eventuate,& all the teams on their day are competetive.However,a few of us it seems have a foot in each camp & wouldn't mind the Jets cinderella story to continue.

Posted by: EDWARD JAY on January 26, 2007 3:45 PM

Posted by: Robbos at January 26, 2007 9:06 AM

Re Okon, ....Not playing in England during his peak has hurt his profile in Australia.

Have to agree, but that is more a sad indictment of the our cultural obssession with all things English-speaking - still used as excuse by our players OS today though they aren't doing their footballing education any favours in most cases by staying in the UK. I understand why it happens and am often guilty of it myself ... anyway, keeping it short. I used to read La Gazzetta Dello Sport (the newspaper version) regularly in the days when he played for Lazio in the midfield with Pavel Nedved. The Italian press would regularly rank them as the best middfield "coppia" in the country at the time and he regularly scored very high marks in the "pagelle" or points system they awarded individual players. He had wonderful "geometria" as the Italians call it. A truely exceptional passer of the ball. Terrible run with injuries - apparentely born with one leg a bit shorter than the other that was only recognised quite late in his career. There were a few hip injuries weren't there?

Interesting comments KB, have to admit I'd never really thought of it that way. I would have played Zelic as a sweeper and Okon in midfield. There was room for both and frankly Okon was always more of midfielder than Ned to me anyway.

Ok, how can I even follow the game this evening? mmmmmmmmm

Posted by: Vicentin on January 26, 2007 4:30 PM

The Jets should win it,but it is hard to call.I am expecting the usual dismal refereeing standard to continue,with Joel Griffiths being the target of the usual victimisation by the ref.Quite a few yellow cards and big full-blooded tackles by Sydney FC that will probably injure one of the Jet's key players.Carney to be a joy to watch and better keeping than usual by Covic.

Posted by: DazzaJapan on January 26, 2007 4:46 PM

Well anyone who was thinking of channel surfing between the A-league and the cricket tonight need not bother as Australia have just cleaned England up for 110. Don't think this one is gonna make the whole 50 overs for some reason.

The only thing that annoyed me is that they didn't show an international AFL match featuring Australia. Utter disgrace!

Posted by: Scouser FC on January 26, 2007 5:04 PM

Have to share a special moment with FLOGgers...

Just finished watching the Australia Day special presentation of the greatest ever Australian sporting moment as voted for by the fans/viewers on Fox Sports. Naturally, out of the selection available it was the famous Aust v Uruguay WCQ game from November 2005.

I sat and watched the whole game start to sensational finish...it was the first time I have actually watch the game in full on TV as I was part of the 82,698 people at Telstra Stadium to see it...

I have to say that finish STILL to this day sends shivers up my spine, makes the hair on the back of my neck stand on end and brings tears to the eyes...I totally got lost in the moment...its an appropriate best of the best Australian sporting history winner.

It has got me so pumped for tonight, I am hanging for the Jets v FC game...its going to be tough to watch as a Newcastle born now proud Sydneysider. I have to say I am leaning towards Jets sentimentally. But rest assured I will enjoy every minute...

Happy Australia Day, enjoy the Football boys and girls.

Tips:

Sydney 1P vs Newcastle 1
Adelaide 2 vs Melbourne 1

Posted by: Jed Petersen on January 26, 2007 7:02 PM

30min in in Sydney vs Newcastle and it's 2-0 sydney, how did Melbourne lose to this lot? or are sydney finally showing their true quality?

Posted by: mb on January 26, 2007 8:39 PM

KB and Robbos

I sit here, keeping tabs on the A-League site, noticing that the Jets have have worked their way back into the game - I just wanted to say that I enjoyed both your exposes on two players who are certainly in the top 3 of the best Socceroos of the last 30 years (and perhaps ever, considering the gap in professionalism between now and then).

I think what Robbos said about Okon is pretty much on the money - his profile wasn't as great as the present day Socceroos and we never really got to see too much of him at his very best - but we saw enough to know that he was all class. Indeed, whenever I see him on the Jets team sheet, as I did tonight, I nearly always reflect on him and wonder whether the younger fans truly understand who they have representing them.

KB - Zelic probably does have it over Okon by a whisker - with his vision around the box perhaps the clincher. On top of that classic goal against Holland - remember the goal Austalia scored against Argentina to tie up the first leg of the WC qualifier in 1993?

We often talk about having a playmaker who can pull something special out to shake things up a bit and create opportunities where none would normally exist - and that's what Zelic achieved that night. My memory is, and you might be able to confirm this, that immediately after the game the Argentinians were convinced that it must have been an offside position (I think Vidmar received from Zelic, and his brother ultimately turned it in). But when they checked the replay, they had to admit that they were simply caught out by a fantastic ball - and paid a great compliment to Zelic, and the goal overall.

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on January 26, 2007 9:54 PM

# Posted by: Scouser FC at January 26, 2007 5:04 PM

if u can think of an international victory involving AFL u should take ben buckley's vacant job

Posted by: Eddie on January 27, 2007 12:41 AM

Posted by: Scouser FC at January 26, 2007 5:04 PM

. . . That would have to be a complete no brainer of an offering by Foxtel!

Makes you wonder about the sporting credentials & credibility of the people at Foxtel !!!!

Why on earth would they put up as a choice the Australia v Russia women' basketball game (which I can't remember) and totally ignore the Australia v USA game where the Aussies won the World Champs...
and that only happened last year !

?????????????????

Posted by: Broadbridge Parsons on January 27, 2007 7:30 AM

A very valuable goal to the Jets last night.

That's a pitiful crowd for a final in Australia's largest city. I gave an estimate of 22,000, but I truly thought I was going to be way off the mark after some reflection.

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on January 27, 2007 7:50 AM

KB & Pippu,

Watching Okon last night you are reminded of what he might have been in his prime, such calmness, such timing & every time he came forward I was worried.
It's a shame, even I tend to disagree with you both (i rate Okon above Zelic) but in Okon, Zelic, Okon & Viduka (you are talking about the top 4).
I do remember clearly Zelic's ball to Vidmar v Argentina & also Zelic goal to get us into the olympics.

Talking about the Barcelona olyroos side, it was our golden generation, but they missed out on the world cup, their best chance in 98 with Kewell & Viduka. The side comprised of Bosnich, Okon, Popovic, Zelic, T Vidmar, Mori, Markovski, Veart, Corica, Seal & Murphy.
What a lineup, but all apart from Popovic missed the world cup glory.
Bosnich has his own well publicised isues.
Okon, was captain in the 02 campaign but injury & lack of form put paid to 06.
Zelic, reason why I don't rate him higher than Okon, never reached the heights his ability demanded, due to his personality, too many times he picked the ball & went home when things didn't go his way.
Vidmar, sad & well known story, but true warhore for Australia.
Mori, Goal king, but never went O/S.
The rest had success in parts but were never in the big leagues O/S like Okon, Bosnich & Zelic.

Posted by: Robbos on January 27, 2007 8:46 AM

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo at January 27, 2007 7:50 AM

While its a good thing in a way for the A-league when 21K crowd is not good enough, but I agree for a club as big as Sydney that needs to improve. Escpecially if newcastle next week get at bigger crowd at energy Australia.

As for the game itself. Well its simple, SFC played well in the first half, Newcastle played well in the second. The Terry Mcflyn injury (a SFC player getting injured? surely not) was a major bonus for newcastle. An excellent goal from Milton, the squadran fans already love him, so that goal is only going to see more white headbands being sold in the newcastle area. Also, the Jets finally get a front shirt sponsor "health industries", good to see.

Ben, do you know when the stadium upgrade will be completed at the cove end? Every game I go to now the cove just keeps getting smaller (physcially).

Ben Willing: If it is on schedule it is supposed to be finished mid-February.

Posted by: Scouser FC on January 27, 2007 10:27 AM

Posted by: Broadbridge Parsons at January 27, 2007 7:30 AM

I'd agree with that ! lol

& I bet it cost the poor sods that voted > $1 to caste their vote

Posted by: BigAl on January 27, 2007 12:26 PM

A LETTER TO THE EDITOR

Please sir stop letting people come on this flog and talk about AFL im sick of coming on here and reading about AFL im sure there is an outlet for AFL fans to talk about their own "sport" and i use that word very losely

think about it chief ... its only common sense

Posted by: Enrico on January 27, 2007 12:33 PM

SFC vs NJ FC

Milton, if they won't give you 90min come and play for us at 'SFC'
And bring your mate Nicky with you.

What another great game and great headers did we see ("SILLY").

SFC were fantastic in the first half and capped by two great header ("SILLY") goals.

In the second we saw why we love the Sth Americans and the combination of Nick Carle and Milton Rodriguez was worth the money alone; although I saw it on the silver screen at the RSL.

But you could feel the tension and the atmosphere even though the sound was kept low.

For the life of me why on earth dose Van Egmond continue with starting with Coveny and not Rodriguez?

I am puzzled, why? I would start Rodriguez first and keep him on. How is the kid ever going to get match fitness if he only plays 35 mins on the park?

We all saw what he can do with his close control and vision laying off flicks and touches.

It was beautiful to watch; combining with Nicky and what an understanding they have together.

“Interesting comments KB, have to admit I'd never really thought of it that way. I would have played Zelic as a sweeper and Okon in midfield. There was room for both and frankly Okon was always more of midfielder than Ned to me anyway.” (Vicentin)

Ned Zelic sweeper and Okon midfield who cares? As long as both are on the park.

Personally I would like it the other way. As Ned was a goal scorer. That does not mean that Okon could not move forward with the ball and Ned to drop off.

Vincentin, Pippu, Robbos.

The best ever performance, that I saw Okon play was a friendly against Scotland. He was fantastic.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!......

Popovic and Murphy were sitting behind him and Okon in front; totally controlled the midfield and made the Scots look 3rd rate and that was at Hamden Park. Incredible performance by him.

But for me it is still Ned by a thickness of a thread; because he can score goals for you.

Okon, is the Classic Italian Midfielder (top quality).

Okon, did not make an impact in the UK because as I said they all play 4 4 2. The UK managers except for Terry Venables (Boro) like to see their midfielders to go forward at break neck speed and tackle the arrsse off their opponents.

He was never going to make it there.

But, he did bring something to them when Terry Venables brought him in to save Middlesbrough FC in a dog fight relegation battle and it was he who saved them from going down.

Then dumped for some other midfielder in the end; when MaClarren was appointed as new manager.

And we all know what English managers like; go forward, hard tackling, high work rate players, with no brains.

Even my English brother-in-law would agree with that, a Boro fan and admirer of Okon.

But, I can't recall to many goals from Okon. But I do with Zelic as I said he was our Beckenbauer.

Robbos said, that Zelic was a "warhore for Australia" very harsh words lad. I am a bit surprised, as I have never ever herd such names against Ned, but I will not say they weren't said but I don't know of any people who had said that.

In defence of Ned, Paul Wade was captain and Ned was always was there for Eddie Thompson and then Alex Tobin was captain and Ned was always there for Thompson then there was Terry Venables and Ned was always there for Terry Venables.

So in short where was Okon, he was not available, or he was injured, or he felt his position at Lazio, would be given to someone else; all of this is on record and with Okon.

My point is this, Ned who put in so much effort at the risk of loosing his contract deserved better from Farina/Arnold, and they were too stupid to recognise the commitment of Ned Zelic for the many, many years waiting in the wings for the captaincy, and then the final humiliation of dropping him in a friendly for one bad performance. For me that was outrageous.

Yes, you can say Ned spat the dummy and no real excuse for that, and yes, Ned refused to come back when Farina tentatively wanted him back and I can remember a piece in the Telegraph (Sydney) on this matter and it was written by a rugby league juno by the name of Jeff Wells and he wrote of the sacking of one of Australia's great sons "Ned Zelic".

It was a good read.

KB

Posted by: Koala Bear on January 27, 2007 1:04 PM

Posted by: Scouser FC at January 27, 2007 10:27 AM

Scouser,
Yess!!! not good enough;!! Those bloody mexicans down south are out doing us cockroaches over and over.

Now, those bloody northern cousins are going to do us over.

C'mon you SFC cove supporters. "Don't ask what can SFC do for you, but what you can do for SFC." :-Jack Kennedy

KB

Posted by: Koala Bear on January 27, 2007 1:32 PM

Broadbridge Parsons at January 27, 2007 7:30 AM

The AUS v RUS game was the final, I can't remember if we beat the US in the semi or the Russians did. From my fuzzy memory I think we beat Brazil after Russia defeated the US.

Back to the game, I think Sydney still played OK in the second half, the loss of McFlynn was cetainly felt as he kept FLOG favourite Carle fairly quiet in the first half. I actually spent a bit of time watching Terry stick to him like glue. I don't know what would have happened if Terry stayed on for the 2nd half, they still would have had to have someone keep a close eye on Milton.

The goal was a cracker, he absolutely schooled Fyfe, and showed why we can be so vulnerable at the back at times. I really hope we find a better RB/CB than Fyfe for next season, and I'm also really excited at the prospect of Rodriguez turning out in the sky blue next year. My 2 mates & I that attended the game were surmising that that was what Milton and Mark Rudan were talking about after the whistle:

'You playing for us next year?'

'Si, si'

'Great'

So, it's all still in the balance, Sydney need to go out and score early next week, same goes for Newcastle, it should be a great game, COME ON SYDNEY!!!!

Posted by: Brickowski on January 27, 2007 1:41 PM

Sydney wins the big one against Newcastle in front of their biggest crowd of the season, and the game isn't mentioned on the SMH home page today! Wha's going on?

Posted by: eddie reynolds on January 27, 2007 2:12 PM

Great game and atmosphere last night (no way you could fit another 21k in there if that was a 21k crowd - 42 cap.)first half totally dominated by us, second Newcastle had the upper hand especially in the latter stages but we had chances to finish the leg off. In a way this result is good for football and gives Newcastle a chance (possibly break their crowd record) it will be tight but I think we will get a result away and I'll be there along with over 1k Sydney fans to see it.

Posted by: fcstan on January 27, 2007 2:14 PM

guys is there a away goal rule in the a-league?

where goals from the away team are worth twice as much?

Posted by: Eddie on January 27, 2007 2:50 PM

The only thing that annoyed me is that they didn't show an international AFL match featuring Australia. Utter disgrace!

Posted by: Scouser FC at January 26, 2007 5:04 PM

Scouser,
I am disappointed in son, have you not heard of the coming Clayton's WIAP World Cup coming to our Australian shores.

Tickets sales have been frantic and now exceed $1500.

The organisers are very happy with this and so I suggest you pull your head in.

KB

Posted by: Koala Bear on January 27, 2007 5:41 PM

It was impossible last night to get ANY internet audio streaming of the game.How is the game going to attract more fans if Foxtel shuts down any avenues for the bulk of the population to watch the A-league.On an even more personal note,it was a shame that we expats could not at least hear the game..on Australia Day!pfft! Come on Murdoch..can't you get it together to provide an audio stream for overseas fans?SBS and Foxsports don't allow game reviews to be accessed from outside australia either.No wonder I have never seen any reportage on the A-League in Japanese sports papers! Get it together and stop being so insular you money-grubbers!!!

Newcastle will finish SFC off next game.LOL.. and Middleby is a flaming shirt-pulling cheat!The ref was also CRAP I am informed.

Posted by: Dazza on January 27, 2007 5:42 PM

Posted by: Eddie at January 27, 2007 12:41 AM

Eddie,
I demand you stop this nonsense right now. Stop trying to get a reaction from the organisers of the Clayton's WIAP World Cup team.

Their targets are right on course and have now reached their primary break even investment $1500.

This is out of character Eddie and I am so disappointed with you.

KB

Posted by: Koala Bear on January 27, 2007 5:54 PM

Posted by: eddie reynolds at January 27, 2007 2:12 PM

ER,
please let me explain, not that I am an expert in the publication industry; but do know the obvious.

If the match is not over by 8pm, it is too late to meet the broadsheet papers deadline; as the press starts running at that time. That is why we have now the internet.

Sooo, you can read a round-up of matches almost immediately. Go to the SMH Football link. It is that easy.

Orrr, wait for the Sunday Sun Herald to come out and you can read the stories there.

This is the same with WIAP league if they play at the same evening times.

Glad to be of service.

KB

Posted by: Koala Bear on January 27, 2007 7:13 PM

Posted by: Eddie at January 27, 2007 2:50 PM

Eddie,
Yes indeed there is an away goal rule in the finals. Newcastle Jets FC only need a 1 nil win to go thru.

KB

Posted by: Koala Bear on January 27, 2007 7:26 PM

21k for a Sydney semi isn't that bad.Just you guys down south expect more.Although its hard for most sports (unless its an occasion.eg.Socceroos v New York Hotspurs.Late 70's KB? 50K at the RAS another 50K turned away) it wouldn't surprise me if the game had near recorded TV ratings for Sydney.
NJ's din't turn up for that game,they looked like they had reached their achievments by making the semi's,well done dutchy by turning them around in the 2nd half.Both goals were probably gifts but the 2nd was good to watch.In the 2nd half it was SFC's turn to fall asleep not expecting a revived Jets & Milton's fancy footwork.In the end Sydney are in the box seat heading into the final game,will we see NJ's go at SFC like they did to MV at home in what surely will be a NJ's record crowd.

Posted by: EDWARD JAY on January 27, 2007 9:33 PM

Why do so many bloggers feel so confident about Rodriguez joining Sydney next year?

Posted by: Giply on January 27, 2007 9:38 PM

Enrico at January 27, 2007 12:33 PM

Being currently the top of the heap gives the Vics both bragging rights and the freedom to discuss whatever topic they wish - when SFC is next top dog, you can lay down the groundrules. But all I can say is get used to the Vics ruling the roost, and get used to what that inevitably means.

Now, if I may, I wish to return to the topic of the A-League, in particular, the Vics first ever finals game tomorrow night.

In SMH's sister paper, there's a fair bit about tomorrow's game. I quote the following passage in relation to their training:

" Melbourne had Western Bulldogs coach Rodney Eade, skipper Brad Johnson and skillfull midfielder Daniel Giansiracusa at its training session yesterday and the club is looking to pick up some tips on coping with finals presure from an AFL side.

' If you didn't want to be up for this game, I am not sure why you would want to be playing any code. It (finals) gets the best out of AFL clubs, it will certainly get the best out of Melbourne Victory,' Merrick said.

Eade said there were increasing similarities between soccer and Australian football and confessed he was a fan of the game and would be at Telstra Dome for Victory's second leg tomorrow well. "

I should add that Ernie is being very diplomatic and modest here. One, if he wants to know about finals pressure, my bullies are not the ones to ask; and two, I am very confident that Rocket Eade was there just as much to see how Ernie handles training, and to learn some ideas Ernie as taken with him from the VIS.

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on January 27, 2007 9:55 PM

Eddie,
yes, for the A-League major and minor semis, if the aggregate scores are tied at the end of the second leg, the away goals rule comes into play.
If the aggregate score and the away goals are tied, then extra time and penalties.

The prelim final and grand final are one match only and away goals don't count for anything.

A friend of mine who just got back from Finland, tells me they have a small AFL comp for expats over there. He played for the IceHoles.
They hadn't heard of the WIAP World Cup, but they just might put together a team and you never know, they might win it.

What drug is Serena on? I swear they weren't tennis balls bulging out from under her skirt.

I knew LA Galaxy wanted to come here, but i didn't Lalas was mates with Lapaglia. Well its definately a good idea, mainly because it great exposure for both leagues. They are roughly at the same sort of level in terms of skills so it would be a competitive match. I'd like to the MLS to bring down their top 4 teams and play in a mini Cup with our top 4. The MLS season doesn't start till April.

And lets not forget the Beckham factor.

Posted by: Scouser FC on January 28, 2007 10:09 AM

I was surprised when they announced the crowd figure at Aussie stadium. The ground looked at least three quarters full, ie around 30k, not half empty.

Interstingly, the Sydney crowd was bigger than 8 of the 12 FA Cup 4th round attendances overnight, including the Middlesborough game.

Dukes, come back to MV and play in front of bigger crowds!

Posted by: jimboinho on January 28, 2007 11:30 AM

With the "friendly" between the Roos & Denmark 1 1/2 weeks away a war of words has started to errupt between the camps with Denmark's coach Morten Olsen (Jolley Olly) saying that Crown Princess Mary of Denmark has been warned to cheer for Denmark.I say stuff 'em.Bring her back here & make her queen of Tassie(theres a 100 lines there).
But really a friendly.Football still hasn't lost that name for internationals.The classic was the friendlies between England & Scotland in the 70's 80's & the annual riots between supporters.
A friendly is a cricket game between 2 pubs in a 2 pub town (With a Bbq & FREE PISS between innings).
FFA take note.
How about we have a annual game agains't say,England,instead of a friendly we'll call it a test match,we'll burn the post's after the first game,put them in the winners trophy,& call it the Johnny Warren Win at all cost cup.
Well maybe we have to put more of a football spin to it.But you know what I mean.Marketing.Maybe I was on to something with that free piss?

Posted by: EDWARD JAY on January 28, 2007 11:46 AM

# Posted by: Koala Bear at January 27, 2007 5:54 PM

when he says something like that I can't help it lol

anyway is there a away goals rule in the a-league, anyone, ben?

Ben Willing: Yes. In the second leg Newcastle need to win by 2 goals OR 1-0. If it ends 2-1 after 90 minutes then there will be extra-time and possibly penalties. If Newcastle win by one goal, bu Sydney scores 2 or more goals, then Sydney will go through.

Posted by: Eddie on January 28, 2007 12:39 PM

interesting comments from the danish coach about which team should she cheer for.....

Denmark coach Morten Olsen said: "Princess Mary has to make her own decisions but if she chooses Australia then there will be big problems for her in Denmark."

"Princess Mary comes from Tasmania, is that right?" Olsen said. "So, is that really Australia?"

Attention KB
Sorry if my earlier post was unclear! I was referring to the game not being mentioned on the _web_ home page of the SMH, which is continuously updated. In fact the game did eventually get mentioned on the smh home page - about an hour after I submitted my comment!

Posted by: eddie reynolds on January 28, 2007 1:54 PM

Idon't believe it.
It was her birthday last week I mentioned restauant 83.
At 2.45 today she says "this r 83".The blood instantly ran to my head like that striker in front of an open goal.I casually
reply "Iv'e got a TV show at 6". What? Soccer? I coped that look.(She just asked me to ring them to check their hours).And then I thought of KB.
R83 is in the biggest club in town.It will be on the screen.The cricket!The guide says its on,its last weeks guide.Its not on WIN at the moment,ABC just mentioned Perth.Oh no.Its 20kms each way to town.I,m going to try the old their closed for reno's dear.She
won't fall for it.I'm now watching the toss (cricket) on WIN.

Posted by: EDWARD JAY on January 28, 2007 3:19 PM

"Dukes, come back to MV and play in front of bigger crowds!"

Posted by: jimboinho at January 28, 2007 11:30 AM

Good call Jimbo!

We all know Dukes is thinking of making a switch. I reckon the perfect scenario is that he goes for a year contract, his final hoorah in the top flight if you like, and then he returns to Melbourne in time for their first asault on the Asian league. He'd be about 32 then and would have 4 solid years left in him.

I'm sure many Asians would know him and it would generate great publicity both here and there.

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on January 28, 2007 3:57 PM

Posted by: jimboinho at January 27, 2007 11:00 PM

The Finish developments have been reported in relation to the expansion out of Denmark that has now collected Germany and Sweden.

Is your friend an ex-pat (if so, he won't qualify in all likelihood)? That's why real 'infancy' leagues are not likely to be early starters in the Int Cup - no expats allowed. That's likely to mean that Czech Rep and France for example are not likely.

The DAFL have been trying to get something going with Mary too.

Pippu -

HS in Melb had a further snippet re new rectangular stadium. Refering to MV as having initially committed, and that the Govt are likely waiting to see whether the MV have been experiencing a not to be sustained honeymoon period.

27.5K still seems the likely ceiling.

Note that Storm had a honeymoon period, and then the theatre goers drifted away. The critical thing probably for MV will be membership sign ons for next year. (esp with the ACL).

See what happens.

Posted by: Michael C on January 28, 2007 9:10 PM

Posted by: Scouser FC at January 28, 2007 10:09 AM

Good Idea, perhaps it should be the top 4 after you take out the ones that are in ACL. This year would be the remaining 4 after sydney and adelaide. Would keep the ball rolling in the off season for the players to stay game fit. I think there should be an FA Cup style competition also during off season.

Pi

Posted by: Fred on January 29, 2007 7:56 AM

Just a thought on the crowd figures on Friday night - I agree it looked like more than 21K.
However, on the way in, my ticket, which was a printout of the pdf sent to me via email, was not being read by the gate (and I swear it was legit!), sot he steward had to use his override ticket. I assume this means I was not counted on the way through. I also noticed that both the guy before me and the guy after me had the same problem......if you see where I'm heading, it would mean that the crowd was perhaps a few thousand bigger than what was announced. Assuming the steward's override ticket only got counted once, that is.

In any event, 21K is not a bad crowd, and a) wasn't it great to see that many away fans, and making a fair bit of noise, and b) I thought it was not a bad match either.

Does anyone know if the 2nd leg is on Fox 2 or 3? Will affect my choice of pub.

Posted by: Ben G on January 29, 2007 8:17 AM

KB,

No worries, always up for a drop of gum leaf gin. :-)

Gee what a thrilling (sic) draw in the Melb v Adel game. C'mon in AFL our wonderful points for missing ensure a draw rarely occurs. Give me the euphoria of a victory or a gut wrenching loss anyday over a banal draw.

cheers
Redb

Posted by: Redb on January 29, 2007 8:21 AM

One day Redb, and it could be sooner than you think, you may just experience the euphoria of a draw, or conversely, a gut-wrenching draw. It's part of the beauty of the beautiful game.

Points for a lack of skill should never be celebrated.

Posted by: Brickowski on January 29, 2007 9:17 AM

Posted by: EDWARD JAY at January 28, 2007 3:19 PM

At the end of the day, nil all in Adelaide vs straight sets in Melb vs 8 runs in Perth......and there was basketball happening too.

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo at January 27, 2007 9:55 PM

AGreed re the bulldogs, but, Eade can remember back to his playing days with the Hawks, and coaching the Swannies, albeit to a GF loss....

...on SEN this morning, they've (MVFC) also had James Hird and Neil Craig on board in the rooms etc speaking to the player group - apparently very impressively.

Posted by: EDWARD JAY at January 27, 2007 9:33 PM

We down South perhaps do have a greater expectation...but that said,....

21K for a SFC final vs Newcastle - a couple of hour drive - I think that's the issue, (assuming that the override tickets were counting). If it were SFC v Glory or something like that, but with such a good turn out of opposition fans - then 21K seems disappointing.

Forgive a comparison, I do know though that the financial demographic can be an issue come finals - such as Port Power in the AFL, a more working class demographic who use all their discretionary spend on season membership, and therefore can't/don't just rock up to all the finals matches - especially interstate.

What are the finals ticket prices like compared to regular season prices?

Posted by: Michael C on January 29, 2007 9:23 AM

I think even diehard supporters would be disappointed with the game at Hindmarsh. Surprising that MV seemed content to sit on a draw. Allsop and Thompson largely ineffective and little real 'traction' by AU. We een saw speculative lobs, very poor tactics!

On the question of pitch sizes, how does Hindmarsh's width compare to others in the league? IT seemed extra narrow last night.

Posted by: eddie reynolds on January 29, 2007 9:44 AM

What are the finals ticket prices like compared to regular season prices?

Posted by: Michael C at January 29, 2007 9:23 AM

Pretty much the same at SFC, I have a season ticket so am not 1000% but I think my mate paid $25 for a regular season ticket, we all paid the same for Friday night's game.

Posted by: Brickowski on January 29, 2007 9:51 AM

Posted by: Brickowski at January 29, 2007 9:17 AM

"One day Redb, and it could be sooner than you think, you may just experience the euphoria of a draw, or conversely, a gut-wrenching draw. It's part of the beauty of the beautiful game.

Points for a lack of skill should never be celebrated."

Please, the europhia of a draw!

Points are never celebrated in AFl, you don't see any player or fan getting excited about a point unless it actually wins the match. And then it is the most beautiful thing, especially if it is against Collingwood. :-)

I'm just saying that a draw, especially nil all is an anti-climax. I love the goals in soccer and i want to see my team win. This draw stuff is in no-ones land. Soccer fans have been conditioned to accept low scoring affairs and a high incidence of draws (probably more than any other sport). For non soccer tragics it is drawback (pun intended).

To each his own, I only pass on my thoughts.

cheers
Redb

Posted by: Anonymous on January 29, 2007 10:03 AM

Did anyone hear that AC Milan are in talks with Sydney FC to set up a youth accademy? anyone know any more about this?

PS: Port Adelaide!!! You mean they work? and if they do get paid they are more likely to spend it on Grog, Darts and mocco's.

Posted by: fred on January 29, 2007 10:09 AM

Despite the claims of crowd tinkering it seems Sydney football fans did not get off their collective backsides to support their team.

Sydney has a problem with football and it is that it lays claim to the greatest percentage of football snobs in Australia.

To be frank it p...sses me off no end.

Just what is wrong with these people they claim to be fans, many have whinged for years about there being no decent domestic competition or its too ethnic etc etc but when they get a competitive Australian League with a team that represents their community they dont turn up because its not the EPL blah blah blah or they belong to one of the old ethnic clubs(these fans are still around) and cant turn there back on Marconi or Olympic.

No its not the EPL, but thats 18000 kms away in another country, not a train ride away in another suburb like Sydney FC is.

Too many Australian fans have been brainwashed by a fantasy idea of overseas football through TV(SBS a mixed blessing) and some feel its beneath them as pseudo sophisticated football fans to attend a domestic match.

It is a perception that has to change and the only way I can see it happening in Sydney is by a slow process of those fans who do attend regularly dragging their friends along to a match.

The short term solution as discussed before for instant credibility for these football skeptics is a Marquee player and for Sydney to begin next season without one is crazy.

It is disgraceful that a city with one tenth the population of Sydney , Newcastle will get a bigger crowd for the return Leg on Friday.

Annoying as it may be to some people I will repeat what I have said before the A-League will not reach its full potential until Sydney gets the level of support it deserves which is a regular 30,000 plus attendance.

Posted by: Vic on January 29, 2007 10:12 AM

Posted by: Vic at January 29, 2007 10:12 AM

Vic.
You're dead right.

Posted by: Ben G on January 29, 2007 10:45 AM

Posted by: Ben G at January 29, 2007 8:17 AM

Ticket Sales are counted and aggregated to determine crowd size, not scan incidences at the gate.

SFC advertising budget was half that of MVFC this year due to the tightening of budget borne out of the losses in year 1.

Further they are operating with a 17 man squad to augment the savings.

Things will improve no doubt, but the team need to do more to connect with the footballing community in Sydney. It's a huge community too, far bigger than that of the other teams. This will take time.

I wouldn't be surprised at all the see Melbournes patronage come back to the field next year. Qld are primed to shine in this regard.

Posted by: Glebeboy on January 29, 2007 10:47 AM

2 quick ones.

Of interest to those who begrudged the reporting of the arrested/evicted from the 50K SFC v MV game late last year -

The snippet article then mentions 2 evicted, police happy with behaviour, no major incidents.

It's funny though, as soon as there are potential racial/ethnic issues then the reporting of crowd behaviour is very significant. It's not anti-soccer, anti-tennis or anti-big day out --- it's simply a subject that has since the Chinese on the gold fields and the islands in QLD been a touchy subject.

2nd one :

Posted by: Vic at January 29, 2007 10:12 AM

Sometimes people just like the 'idea' of something - similar to those who volunteer to help at sporting clubs only to add a nice line to their resume rather than do the hard yards...

Anyway, the whole de-ethnicity thing I still see as being a little at odds with the rather large ethnic clubs - I go home via the Veneto club on Bulleen Rd - the amount of money etc tied up there plus their own soccer pitches and clubs (although recently the main FC split I gather to distance itself from ethnic identity - and that suggests the real victory is stuff all to do with the A-League, but more the state leagues - good luck on that one).

3rd one without notice...
The reception Neill got at West Ham - their not happy with a fellow so openly following the money???? Isn't that what the entire comp is built around?? Do perhaps the fans want their 'club' back?

Posted by: Michael C on January 29, 2007 10:55 AM

I should clarify:

re the Veneto club - I'm talking about the 'social clubs' rather than the FC. But where the social clubs control the FCs.

Not that I know anything about them other than driving past in partial awe, wonderment, envy and a tinge of concern about assimilation!! (yes, there is a Danish club, but no one in my family has ever gone near it!)

ps - I drive past an "Istrian" club now and then. Who are they and where are they from? Does anyone know?

Posted by: Michael C on January 29, 2007 11:30 AM

MC,

The Veneto Club, also known as the V-Hole locally, now that place brings back many good childhood memories. It is the place where I started my illustrious football career in the under 12's, my dad would bring me to training and play bocce with all the other dads while waiting for us, unfotunately for me Bresciano and Grella who also played there where a whole lot better than me!!

Its also a great place to watch the a-league, (the place is perfect for us, good food, everybody minds his own business...oh hold on..thats Louis in the Bronx from godfather 1 where Michael kills Mcklusky and Salozo) they have a few big screens and apart from the world cup, its probably the only thing that will tear the fellas away from playing cards!!

Posted by: fred on January 29, 2007 11:46 AM

Posted by: Vic at January 29, 2007 10:12 AM

Vic mate,

I think you underestimate the problems which plague FC at the moment. You have a team decemated by injury in an already limited squad meaning guys out of position and guys playing who probably would not be in a stronger squad. You have a coach who despite his media friendly personality and general charater is much maligned by the press and indeed pundits on this and other forums on top of a minor shareholder (LaPaglia) who has publicly spoken out about him in the media and now therefore must see that his losses his job or risk looking insignificant. All the while the style of Football that Sydney has played has been anything but that befitting of a city as glamourous and cosmopolitan as ours. Futhermore, as Glebeboy rightly states we are a much larger city that others and the 1 team 1 town concept is flawed when it becomes an oddessy for half of the cities population to travel into a congested Moore Park area to see a game. Not to mention as I state many times (and am well supported) FC has failed to identify itself with 2 million of its residents living in the Western Suburbs.

Sydney DOES have an opportunity to win some wider support and that comes with potentially moving a ACL game like the Shenua game to Telstra Stadium. That will help them show to truely be the team which represents all of Sydney.

Posted by: Jed Petersen on January 29, 2007 11:49 AM

Re " Friendly Internationals".
These sort of matches are much criticised because of the term "friendly "rather than say Test as traditionally used in Australia.

Because we are shackled like the rest of the world to FIFA we cant do much about the name they designate it for these sort of matches where there is no trophy to be won.

But what is to stop these "Friendly" matches being played so that a charitable cause benefits from them.

There are enough rich people in the world who love football some spending 100's of millions on the game what if a meagre sum for these people say $100,000 was donated to a designated charity based on the result of a friendly game.
Perhaps a charity that would help the impoverished people of the World(take your pick)

So say in this country Frank Lowy says he will donate $50,000 to UNICEF when Australia play Denmark and the Danish billionare equivalent says he will donate $50,000.

But whichever country wins the other losing countrys billionare has to donate a further $50,000.
A draw results in no donations,therefore after 90 minutes if a draw have a penalty shootout ie there must be a winning team.

I'm sure there are many other combinations of this theme ,but you get the drift,by playing for a charity it gives meaning to the contest as well as helping a worthwhile cause

Posted by: Vic on January 29, 2007 11:56 AM

erm..if as many fans watched the games in the stadium as watched the games in the pub Sydney may be able to drum up a few more people!
LOL

Yesterday J-League club Urawa Reds (Sydney's new rivals) had a 'meet the players' kind of event at their stadium..only 40,000 people turned up.

Sydney there are NO excuses for your poor crowds.Get out and support your team.

Posted by: Dazza on January 29, 2007 12:01 PM

Posted by: fred at January 29, 2007 10:09 AM

I saw the AC Milan/youth camp think coming up on World game on sbs. But i missed cos I had to take massive dump at the time.

Ben, do you have any info on this?

Posted by: Scouser FC on January 29, 2007 12:12 PM

Posted by: Dazza at January 29, 2007 12:01 PM

Dare I suggest that watching something in a pub is hardly making a great commitment - and perhaps says more for the atmosphere of the pub than anything else.

Doesn't do much but re-inforce the southern image of Sydney 'supporters' based on the NRL model (or lack there of beyond the Leagues clubs).

And further suggests that the Swans membership must be mostly ex-pat Vics - as locals seemingly wouldn't join a queue unless Ray Martin were there to cover it and John Williamson singing.......

Is there a stand alone SFC social club/venue? Perhaps they at least need one such located out West?

Posted by: Michael C on January 29, 2007 12:37 PM

500 people at MV final training run before the AU match.

SMH runs story of 2 arrested at AU/MV soccer match,be interesting to see how many were arrested at the cricket in Perth seeing it didn't rate a mention.

SFC crowds.
Vic,don't blame soccer snobs,its been trendy for years all over the country to put crap on soccer,& soccer has supplied the fuel to them to do it.
JED P, don't blame SFC.Blame the weather,the sporting mentality/culture,other things to do.
What the NRL do.
Every junior gets into every round game for free all year.Days when every kid under 12 gets in for free with a paying adult.Mothers day specials.Free passes to school children.Anzac day, every serviceman ex-serviceman gets in for free.They lie about the crowds,most on this blog are saying it seamed more than 21k,the NRL would have got it up to an offical crowd of at least 28k.
ect,ect,ect,more,more.Put on an event,or don't charge & they will come.
TV is the money puller,but a good crowd makes good TV.

Posted by: EDWARD JAY on January 29, 2007 12:43 PM

Posted by: EDWARD JAY at January 29, 2007 12:43 PM

The 2 arrest made the front page in the local paper here in Adelaide.

By all reports, it was all securities fault, as they let the Victory supports out too early, right where the AU fans were.

I was at the game, but didn't see anything.

Posted by: cheech on January 29, 2007 12:55 PM

Posted by: Scouser FC at January 29, 2007 12:12 PM

It was something to do with AC Milan wanting to set up an academy with SFC, providing coaches and $$$ to SFC in order to acchieve this. Now if SFC is going to get a football academy from AC MILAN I DEMAND THAT JUVENTUS GIFTS ONE TO MVFC!!!! NOT FAIR!!!

Posted by: fred on January 29, 2007 1:01 PM

Posted by: EDWARD JAY at January 29, 2007 12:43 PM

What I said earlier is a blueprint for success.

The club can try to shed the blame if it wants too but that is a recipe for continuing failure...in fact am I the only one not suprised by the crowd? I would not even call it poor...moreover - expected.

Perhaps you are onto a winner with your last line...subsidised public transport, parking or tolls for ticket holders...?

Consider the competition for a minute...air conditioned comfort of a living room with wide screen plasma tv getting muliple angles of action through a digital cable service, ice cold and affordable beer of my choice on hand or favourite merlot to wash down fresh home-cooked asian cuisine with the freshest ingredients bought locally from the asian market...

or;

Train travel into town 40 minutes...long walk to SFS 20 minutes...yobbos and d1ckheads alone the way...lining up...$5 beer in plastic container...$5 hot dog or meatpie stale of course...then more walking...more trains back home...tired and broke and digestive problems from the poor quality food available.

Tale of the tapes says it all doesn't it?

Posted by: Jed Petersen on January 29, 2007 1:07 PM

Redb
Posted by: at January 29, 2007 10:03 AM

As both a soccer and AFL fan, I have to say that many of Redb's points ring true to me. The game could be so much better - if only people would listen to me!

Michael C
Istria - quote from Wikipedia: "Istria (Croatian and Slovenian: Istra, Italian: Istria) is the largest peninsula in the Adriatic Sea. The peninsula is located at the head of the Adriatic between the Gulf of Trieste and the Bay of Kvarner."

That whole area around Trieste has has always been part italic, part slavic. The city of Pula/Pola was once under the control of Italy. There's a very old picture of my grandfather when he was doing his military service in Pola, probably during the facist period. All of the Istrian peninsula came under the control of the Yugoslav government immediately after the war. Indeed, Trieste remains partly in Italy and partly in Slovenia - I think to this day there exist restaurants where one end is in Italy and the other end is in Slovenia.

Fred
good call about those Port Adelaide supporters! I hope you don't have to put up with too many ferals at the game this Sunday!

Vic
impossible to disagree with what you are saying about Sydney crowds.

Scouser
It sounds like you have a bit too much roughage in your diet. When I was younger and still living at home, my brother always got nervous when I was taking a dump, because it inevitably meant a new rule for backyard cricket/soccer/whatever - as we all know, it is a great time for reflection - a time to really understand the kind of many you are. It's a good time for working out my next major post! Now you know where all my creativity is coming from! (although some of you may have worked it out already, but have been to kind to say it outright to date).

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on January 29, 2007 1:29 PM

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo at January 29, 2007 1:29 PM
my brother always got nervous when I was taking a dump, because it inevitably meant a new rule for backyard cricket/soccer/whatever - as we all know, it is a great time for reflection - a time to really understand the kind of many you are. It's a good time for working out my next major post! Now you know where all my creativity is coming from!

Does this mean your posts swing from the affluence of words to the effluence ?

Posted by: Itzbek the Frog on January 29, 2007 1:54 PM

"As both a soccer and AFL fan, I have to say that many of Redb's points ring true to me. The game could be so much better - if only people would listen to me!"

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo at January 29, 2007 1:29 PM

Thankfully, we know you are a wolf in sheeps clothing and also that we know Football as the world kows it does not have to change a bit to satisfy the whims of a handful of Aussie Rules supporters in a small remote corner of the south pacific.

I laugh my head off at some of the things you regionals think should change...There is NO WAY you can be a TRUE Football fan and want to see the game changed to be more Aussie Rules like...that is so stupid and to pretend to be a Football fan while wishing for changes to represent your kind's sporting interests is equally daft.

Can I ask what makes you think that FIFA are interested in what weird changes victorians might like to see made to the game?

There are two problems with Football that are universal and need attention as agreed by Football fans the world over those are diving and match fixing. Nothing else.

Posted by: Jed Petersen on January 29, 2007 2:07 PM

Jed,Edward Jay or anybody elseand normally Jed and I are on the same wavelength but on Sydney crowds we are poles apart.

I repeat and will continue to repeat until Sydney Gets crowds of Over 30,000 on a regular basis the A-League will not reach its full potential.

I dont give a toss what the reasoning is for the crowds I know what they are and what the demographics and geography of Sydney is.

Edward Jay if you dont believe there are football snobs in Sydney , visit the Sydney FC forum and peruse a few of the posts over a period of time.
"My mate(s) wont come to a Sydney FC A-League match because they think the A-League is crap compared with the EPL" is a common plea for help from the diehard fans who attend matches.
And yes the game was run by imbeciles for years but its not now so whats the excuse today.
There isn't one.
As for what the NRL does once again who gives a toss this is about football fans and why they dont turn up.

Those same football fans who in the past turned up in droves to see Kevin Keegan or an aging Bobby Charlton in the old NSL or NY Cosmos or Man U or World All Star Eleven then disappeared back to their TV sets for their football kicks .

And as a pommie migrant I have had to constantly listen to other poms slag of football in OZ, unfortunately many Aussie football followers have been listening to these people for too long.

I cannot imagine as an Owls supporter supporting Man U because Wednesday are crap in comparison let alone consider following a team in another country apart from my adopted one.

I take the same attitude with the Roar as my adopted team.

It doesnt stop me appreciating these teams and their players but that is not supporting its being a voyeur of football.

Sydney FC deserves more than what football fans in Sydney are giving it.

If I'd have worried about the ups and downs of the Owls both on and off the field over the years
the only thing I'd be following is the men in the white coats.

Posted by: Vic on January 29, 2007 2:41 PM

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo at January 29, 2007 1:29 PM
my brother always got nervous when I was taking a dump, because it inevitably meant a new rule for backyard cricket/soccer/whatever - as we all know, it is a great time for reflection - a time to really understand the kind of many you are. It's a good time for working out my next major post! Now you know where all my creativity is coming from!

Does this mean your posts swing from the affluence of words to the effluence ?

Posted by: Itzbek the Frog on January 29, 2007 2:50 PM

There are two problems with Football that are universal and need attention as agreed by Football fans the world over those are diving and match fixing. Nothing else.

Posted by: Jed Petersen at January 29, 2007 2:07 PM

The first can be fixed the second is human nature and it will always be a sporadic problem throughout the world.

Posted by: Vic on January 29, 2007 2:51 PM

Posted by: Jed Petersen at January 29, 2007 2:07 PM

The very reason you suggest that FIFA would not be interested is perhaps the very reason that FIFA WOULD (or should) be interested.

Here me out on this one!

Firstly, soccer being derived from the wonderful think tank that was Britain mid to late 1800s - there was only so much variety there.

You need simply look to Australia and America to see what slightly more remote and independant think tanks were able to come up with - and that simply based on some free adaptation of the British base - 2 parallel universes.

Therefore, these are fabulous small ponds for FIFA to examine - both to gain insight, reject outright or whatever. 'Tis not the size of the principles populous that matters - 'tis the principle that counts.

Not often is there a sliding door you can look through. Don't dismiss too readily.

The other aspect is not the FIFA interest - but the obvious Aust domestic interests.

Many have said before that the A-League ought not be judged against the EPL, Bundesliga, Serie-A etc etc.

I simply defend those who often find it appropriate to make comparisons outside the world of soccer but still in the Aust domestic context - so as to avoid the unfair comparisons within, as listed above - and then they get howled down?!?!?! - - - me thinx the bread must be hard to handle slathered in grease upon both sides.

Posted by: Michael C on January 29, 2007 2:53 PM

Pippu,

Don't worry about Jed he has to live in western Sydney, surely punishment enough! :-)

Jed, you keep up this vitriol and I will have to report you to the internet feds and have you banned from this blog for myopic stupidity.

Along with diving and match fixing, the FFA you could add the elimination of draws by adding two small nets either side of the main goals which are worth 0.16 to the score. :-)

What people like Jed don't get is that for soccer to grow in this country it has to appeal to followers of other football codes and rather than berate with insults soccer tragics need to embrace and educate, but ultimately accept that these 'new' people will take time to understand and even, wait for it.....offer new ideas which may actually improve the game.

Finally, have a guess who is the new head of soccer in this country and where did he come from?

I rest my case. (of gumleaf gin)

cheers
Redb

Posted by: Redb on January 29, 2007 3:12 PM

Jed P your 100% correct.We were both obviously brought up in Sydney.
Vic.By football snobs I thought you meant one of those guys that say "one sport I can't handle is soccer".I've met them all over this fine land.As for who gives a toss about what the NRL do,most of you guys are blaming SFC for poor crowds.I am saying,NRL is 100 years old,Sydney is a NRL town,they can't draw crowds,generally.Look at what I said they do to bolster Sydney crowds.#1 all juniors get in for free & they inflate the offical figure(as I said earlier,last Fridays would have been an offical NRL crowd of at 28k).
When I was young,they used to say they'd get 100k at the MCG to watch two flys race round it,& all of Sydney would have a punt on the result.

Posted by: EDWARD JAY on January 29, 2007 3:21 PM

Posted by: Redb at January 29, 2007 3:12 PM

After reading that I;m glad you don't run the FFA. Change the rules of football to appease the 0.000000000000000000001% of the worlds population that follow the AFL. Yeah i'm sure FIFA will listen to you :)

Posted by: Scouser FC on January 29, 2007 3:34 PM

This talk of West Sydney has got me curious, for those who know about the sydney sporting landscape:

* would a west sydney club be something sustainable?
* Where would their home ground be?
* If there was a west sydney team what would SFC be considered?
* I understand that west sydney is a place where many ethnic minorities live, would a west sydney team help bridge the divide between these communities in the name of sport? Or would it just spawn some sort of super west gang that lays waste to all before it?

I know its a lot of questions but I dont know the sporting landscape in NSW.

Posted by: fred on January 29, 2007 3:36 PM

Posted by: Redb at January 29, 2007 3:12 PM

Well if it isn't our dunce of the class RedneckB...just when I was begining to think you had matured over summer as you prepared to enter junior high school...you go and reiterate to me why the Bracks Government has failed the victorian education system.

Myopic...stupid? they sounds alot like phrases to describe a group of victorian fools who have no interest in Football yet would have the world change to suit there needs.

In case news hasn't spread throughout your backwater village in remote victoria regions and farmhouses the A-League v.2 has been a tremendous success over v.1 and all signs show that tread continuing as we now begin to fully realise the massive potential of Asia.

And you point about Buckley only serves to diffuse your point, and Mike C's also, that Football is not attempting to harness imbedded knowledge from across other established codes in Australia. Recall (if you have the mental cpacity to do so) that the former FFA CEO was a RU man with a wealth of knowledge and experience...both he and Buckley conceded that the size of the beast they were tackling was truely awesome in comparison to anything else they had been involved with. O'Neil passed with flying colours and time will only tell with Buckley but the early signs are encouraging.

Furthermore, myself and millions like me would take Western Sydney over Melbourne or anywhere in victoria anyday of the week...if there is one thing we like about Melbourne its the cheap supply of investment properties...but thats it.

You rest your case on that drivel...who are you Lionel Huts?

Posted by: Jed Petersen on January 29, 2007 3:44 PM

Come on Sydney , stop whinging about the train ride and the fact that you have to pay a few more dollars for your beer.Theres one thing you don't get watching football in your living room, and that’s atmosphere. Thats right, the digital surround system and plasma, can not truly match the experience of a live game, and yes there are d*ickheads at the game, but that’s life, so learn to deal with it.

21,000 to a final, pathetic , if craven cottage can sell out on a -1 c night, with heavy fog, in london ,surely you can get a few more people to your Matches. I realise it is not entirely apporpriate to draw comparisons, but come one people in Melbourne travel hours by car,or public transport just to turn up to victory games,afl matches,nrl matches,cricket etc. Perhaps if you want such subsidies for transport, you should make an effort to turn up, then they will more inclined to offset the travelling cost.
Perhaps you have become to accustomed to your status as a world-wide city, and to affluent to attend matches.
Otherwise, stop whinging and support your club, because frankly you’re Just making us Melbourne look so much better :).

Posted by: Andrew on January 29, 2007 3:59 PM

Jed, cheap Investment properties?, sorry mate but your lack of knowledge outside your own little bubble is telling. It is in fact Western Sydney that is seeing such a decline in property prices that many people's mortgages are worth more than their house!

ScouserFc, it was worth a try. :-). Give me less draws, the other 99.9999999% could have a think about it.

cheers
Redb

Posted by: Redb on January 29, 2007 4:36 PM

At last some interesting debate! I will postpone for the moment my in depth analysis of the two finals games, and what I think of the forthcoming weekend - I am sure you are all absolutely dying to read it - even Jed and Vic!

" Does this mean your posts swing from the affluence of words to the effluence ?

Ahh Frogman - let us say my concluding comments are capable of being interpreted a number of ways!

Jed
I take the wolf in sheep's clothing comment as a compliment - I had never thought I had that much power!

But your analysis is overly simplistic on a number of fronts. Firstly, FIFA has been putting forward ideas for change for decades - but its political structures are such that it is impossible to change anything. In fact, just the other day, Vic put forward a few radical suggestions for change - to suggest that no one on this blog has ever thought of a possible improvement to the game just means that they are either brain dead or don't pay enough attention when they are watching. Thankfully, I cannot be accused of either, having an IQ of 140 and being very observant when I watch the game (a game I have played and watched for decades now).

Re the two shortfalls in the game you quote - your analysis is superficial there as well. Firstly, the world does not agree with us (you, I and others) that diving is an abomination - in fact most of the world could not give a damn and indeed some openly embrace this as a "skill". Secondly - the question of match fixing is a chicken and egg issue - yes, I agree with you that match fixing is a disgrace - but it has as much to do with the game itself - and I do not agree with another correspondent who suggested it is solely connected with human nature. It is absolutely impossible to fix an AFL match - indeed you could try to pay all 44 players, all 12 coaches, all 7 umpires - and you would still find it next to impossible to have them play out a 10:12:72 v 10:11:71 result! But a soccer result - name it - it's eminently doable - that's a flaw in the game that will always encourage match fixing, i.e. it is the easiest of perhaps all ball sports to fix!!

Now, if FIFA would take on board my suggestions for improving the game - we'd all be happy! Just as the world was initially against Gallileo, against Einstein and against Bob Dylan - I am sure that one day I will be vindicated! It's just that I appear to be the only person on Earth who has a clue!!

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on January 29, 2007 4:39 PM

Heres an interesting article by English writer Simon Barnes.
Its about power in sport and who holds it and using Mourinho and Abramovich as examples.

JOSE MOURINHO is like Michelangelo. They both made the same silly mistake. If either of them had rung me to discuss it, I could have put them right. But there's no telling some people. Mourinho and Michelangelo: both self-willed creative people, each, in his own way, an artist, each, in his own way, prone to thinking a great deal of himself.
Roman Abramovich is like Pope Julius II. They both did and do exactly what they wanted, and they are both powerful enough and self-willed enough to tell anybody in the world to get stuffed. Especially if it's only some bloody little puffed-up artist.
No, Michelangelo, I don't happen to want you doing sculpture. I want you to paint the Sistine Chapel. What? You don't want to? You say you're a sculptor, not a painter? Well, I say you're a painter. I also say, take your paint-pots and brushes into that bloody chapel and start painting.

It's no good talking about the integrity of your art to a man as powerful as Julius or Roman. You have a choice. You either do as your patron says, or you get stuffed.

There is a tendency to think that rich people - seriously rich people - who come into sport are mugs, pigeons ripe for the plucking. People tend to forget that if you have made the grade in one area, you are perfectly capable of making it in another.

People who have made serious money are colossally talented. Those who are smart enough to understand the nature and limitations of this talent can turn their hands to new ventures and make a success.

Ferguson and Mourinho made the same mistake. They both thought that the difference between ordinary chaps and extremely rich chaps is that one has more money than the other. But it's not like that.

These people are not incidentally powerful, power is absolutely central to their natures. Whether you are born to money or you make your money, you are accustomed to the sort of power that normal people can't easily imagine. Being rich is not just about being able to buy what you like; it's about being able to do what you like, and to whom you like.

Cricket treated Packer lightly; another rich idiot, another man of no account, another man who didn't really understand cricket. The point everyone missed was that Packer was a brilliant and powerful man. Cricket tried to tell him to get stuffed, so he ate it. All cricket. Devoured the lot. The game, ripe for revolution, was never the same again. Packer's timing was perfect and his plans were stunningly and uncompromisingly executed.

It's all about power. Money is only the symptom of power, pure power is what counts, what gets things done; in sport, as in everything else.

So whats the point of this you say.

The point is that we will look back on Frank Lowys time in power at the FFA in the same way cricket did with Kerry Packer.
John O'Neill suited Frank Lowys needs at that time now Ben Buckley is doing the same.
Mere mortals watch and learn from the powerful.

Posted by: Vic on January 29, 2007 4:40 PM

Fred
don't fall for this West Sydney talk - Jed just wants a team next door to him so that he doesn't have to drive anywhere!

Andrew
Well said - I too am sick of hearing about all these bloody excuses for Sydney's low attendances. It was a finals game and you are reigning premiers! And you have an excellent chance of making the grand final! I repeat again, 21,000 is pathetic. More than that will turn up to a training night at a Victorian AFL club's training in the week leading up to the Grand Final! And they'll drive 2 hours to get there - hell, I'd drive 24 hours without a break to get there!!

Now- I'd like to explore this idea of Redb's in awarding .16 of a goal everytime the ball goes into a net either side of the big net. For instance, on the weekend, Adelaide may have won 0.64 to 0.16 and the Vics would have their work cut out for them in the return leg!

Alas, I'm not sure it would have helped in the World Cup, I think the final would have remained 1.0 apiece - such was the paucity of attempts on goal.

I say it's a goer and I ask all bloggers that we petition FIFA for the introduction of smaller side nets worth .16 a pop.

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on January 29, 2007 4:49 PM

Posted by: Redb at January 29, 2007 4:36 PM

Don't worry too much,

remember the logic that puts the 51% figure on Australia re AFL seemingly is warped to include all of China, India, USA, Canada - gosh, even the Rugby playing folk of England, France, Italy, Australia etc etc.

The world game it undoubtedly is - but forget this 'total world' drivel.

Let alone the male vs female demographic breakdown - as per the 'perfect world' element of the Carlsberg ad - there's only so many women who give a tinkers about the 'world of football'.

And the reality, just as a cricket supporter doesn't seriously care what happens in Bermuda, likewise a true football fan doesn't seriously care what happens in Sierra Leone.

The size of the 'world' is really only relevant to those in serious competition at the pointy end. i.e. come the world cup.

c'mon the vics - 91 to go.

Posted by: Michael C on January 29, 2007 4:50 PM

The Roar have dispensed with Yuning Zhang to go with Chad Gibson and Remo Buess.

The Roars recruiting under Miron was out of left field to say the least.

A bit like he went to the butchers to buy bits of a lamb so he could put them together to make a whole lamb(dont ask why) but instead of picking lamb body parts he picked a cows leg, a chickens breast and some pigs trotters and a rabbits head then wondered why he got a cocked up lamb.

I know its a lot of questions but I dont know the sporting landscape in NSW.

Posted by: fred at January 29, 2007 3:36 PM

A West Sydney team is not in the best interest of the A-league at the moment.
Parramatta Stadium (25-30k) would be the obvious choice,although Telstra is after tenants,& would really do a sweat deal to get an A-league team their.I'm pretty sure they pay South Sydney to play their,& their lucky at the moment to draw 10k.
SFC would properly be looked at like the swans,with the majority of their support from the eastern & northern subs.Inner south is hardcore league,although Johnny Warren went to school at Mascot PS.
The West used to be hard core aussies,denim jeans & flano shirts.
Now its pretty much the un-united nations,with Penrith,at the foot of the mountains still,mainly Australian I believe,with Kiwi's in every suburb.I'm a NRL Bulldogs supporter,& the Leb Bulldog supporters beat up the Aussie Bulldog supporters inside the ground.They wait at the stations for anyone to fight.The Bulldogs can't play at their home ground at Belmore anymore because the lebs caused riots after each game.These arn't racist comments,they are real, well documented comments with TV film.

Posted by: EDWARD JAY on January 29, 2007 5:09 PM

30,000 tickets already sold for the Melbourne Adelaide clash.

I wouldn't mind The Sydney situation so much if they would admit that they have a problem and were searching for ways to rectify the problem.

Some people on this flog have said that Sydney is a football city well the crowds at A-league matches dont reflect this and that is what the media note.

This years crowds show that Brisbane and Melbourne are bigger football cities than Sydney.

Sydney fans know that is garbage but try proving it.

The media in Australia dont care that there is a fan club for every professional English, Scottish ,Italian German ,Spanish and outer Mongolian team in Sydney but they do care if 40,000 Sydneysiders turn up to watch Sydney FC play Newcastle in a final.

Posted by: Vic on January 29, 2007 5:17 PM

Here it is nearly 5.30 PM on Monday arvo and still noone apart from me has commented on the AU v MV game. Perhaps you all think it's not worth adding anything to my brilliant analysis?

Posted by: eddie reynolds on January 29, 2007 5:24 PM

Jed Petersen at January 29, 2007 1:07 PM

...Well, when you put it that way....

In my eyes it looks a lot different. Mostly I will get together with my 2 mates who also have season tickets, and anyone else we can drag along. We'll have a nice meal, drive to fox studios, park the car, head up to the Olympic, have a few beers, head to the game with maybe a bifta or 2 on the walk, settle in, watch the game, head back to fox, jump in the car, drive to PJ's at Drummoyne for a few Kilkenny's. SOunds a bit better, don't it.

Posted by: Brickowski on January 29, 2007 5:52 PM

I seriously hope there is never an A League team from Western Sydney, not because I think it will damage my team, I just think the A League has enough bogan fans on it's hands from Gosford, Newcastle & Adelaide, a fourth nogan-based team would make it impossible for the A League to market itself with any respect.

Posted by: Brickowski on January 29, 2007 6:00 PM

1. Sydney fans, get your act together for next season, I agree for A-League to succeed, we need 30,000. I know alot of football snobs in Sydney, massive football fans who say it's not a good standard, but has nver been to a game.

2. It's finals time, all football fans should continue to discuss the football & not get drag down by WAIP guys on who's bigger, better etc, we need more goals, it gets boring.

3. Build it & it will grow, continue to spread the news. Watch out for big crowds this week. I thought it was great that we can call a crowd of 21,000 pathetic in football in Australia.

4. KB I did not say Zelic was a Warhorse, it was Vidmar

5. Come on Sydney. Sydney & Melbourne to come out on top this weekend.

Posted by: Robbos on January 29, 2007 6:02 PM

Well the Denmark game ought to be interesting.Luke Wilkshire was injured yesterday,coming off after 12 mins.Chipperfield came back from injury and played just 57 minutes.Aloisi returned to training on the 22nd after playing little part at Alaves this year.Lucas may or may not play against liverpool due to his ankle.Then,after looking at the NUFC meesage boards on footymad.net the fans are LIVID that Australia has named Moore in the squad despite his not yet returning to training!! Now maybe all this is a huge oversight for FFA but wasn7t there much trouble with Timmy and always sending him back injured?FFA promising to smooth things over with the clubs?
I can't see how this squad selected itself!!sorry about the continued whinge..but if you take Bresch and Culina out as well...well,you do the math!! LOL

Posted by: DazzaJapan on January 29, 2007 6:26 PM

Now that I have had my rant and rave, it's back to the semi finals (the leg just completed and the forthcoming leg).

What do we know after the first leg? After SFC's first half, we would have confirmed what we have known right through the second half of the season - they are the main threat to the Vics. Otherwise, when it is all said and done, little of note has been revealed.

SFC v Jets - Any win or draw will see SFC through; a 1-0 Jets win will see them through; no need looking at any other result, it ain't gonna happen. Why? SFC remains your best team at holding any team at the comp to less than 2 goals.

The big question for SFC is: do they get an early goal, and wrap up the final there and then, or do they sit on their 2-1 lead, knowing that a 1-0 loss spells curtains for them. Why ask?! we've seen SFC all year - we know the answer surely! They will back themselves to stop the Jets scoring, they will look to get that one valuable goal on the counter, they will look to hold on to the ball for long periods without necessarily attacking the Jets goal (unless absolutely necessary) - they will frustrate the absolute hell out of the Jets. Thus, this game will be on a knife's edge until the very last minute - but SFC has the temperament to pull it off while the Jets have the quality to sneak one in. Folks - this semi is too tight to call, but I know for sure that we will not be going to penalties here.

Vics v AU - Vics need a win, any win; any score draw will put AU through. Vics are clearly not back to the best - but did a fair bit to get some stability back into the team - no substitutions for the whole game tells us that the 11, particularly the defenders and midfield were doing what Ernie wanted. Allsopp and Thompson are surely due to score at least one between them?

I see this game panning out exactly the same way the last time they met at the Dome. I think AU caused the Vics' first loss of the season, with a hard fought, tight 1-0 win. I am 100% confident that AU will enter this game with the same mentality - keep it ultra tight, score one on the break if possible - otherwise, go all the way to a penalty shoot out - and why not? Would AU have taken a toss of the coin mid way through this season to host the grand final? You betcha!!

The Vics hav scored 2 goals in their last 5 games at the Dome - it's an absolutely atrocious record. Nil all seems as probably a scoreline as any, especially given the recent form of Thompson and Allsopp. Yes, the Vics probably have a goal in them - but at the end of the day - expect this game to be very similar to the other one - as tight as. At this stage I am thinking 50% chance of nil all and a penalty shoot out, 35% chance of a Vics 1-0 win, and 15% chance of an AU 1-0 win.

The show features a bunch of uncoordinated "nerds" that have never played football before, in other words they are at the same level as a central coast mariner striker.

Posted by: Scouser FC on January 29, 2007 6:47 PM

Another WIAP fan Richard Freeman wrote in his article in the Sunday Herald that the crowds for the A-League went down this year (A-League up by 20%). And that the crowds are sure to fall even more next year because it was not a world cup year.
Smell the fear, otherwise why would you write lies.

Posted by: Robbos on January 29, 2007 7:25 PM

What people like Jed don't get is that for soccer to grow in this country it has to appeal to followers of other football codes and rather than berate with insults soccer tragics need to embrace and educate, but ultimately accept that these 'new' people will take time to understand and even, wait for it.....offer new ideas which may actually improve the game.

Finally, have a guess who is the new head of soccer in this country and where did he come from?

I rest my case. (of gumleaf gin)

cheers
Redb

Posted by: Redb at January 29, 2007 3:12 PM

Hi Redb,

I agree and I disagree with your ascertion here.

I certainly agree that Football won't attract any new followers by berating the no0bs. Goes without saying really and applies to any new sport or other endeavour.

But I've gotta say I don't necessarily agree with the notion that for Football to grow they need to attract fans from other codes (though they'd be more than welcome). You see, ther is a market of new football spectators just waiting to be tapped into. And everyone of them play or have played, coach or have coached the game. It's not a case of converting people to whom the game is foreign, it's about converting those already in the game to get involved asa spectator at the A-League.

One would think that'd beinfinately easier than converting cricket fans to the game. We shall wait and see.

Posted by: Glebeboy on January 29, 2007 8:15 PM

People,

As usual, some interesting ideas for helping Bling FC get their crowd numbers up. Went to the game, had an excellent view from the Aussie Stadium Members section upstairs. Tickets courtesy of our Rah Rah friends. They had used them the night before at the Rah Rah game. They desperately wanted to go to the game but their wives only let them go once every two days, so us Football tragics benefited at their expense! In fact the talk in the members was about the fact that so many members aren't allowed to go to 2 events in 2 days! Looks like we know who wears the "pants" in good ole Sydney town!
21K is still Bling's biggest home crowd of the season! And anyway, the "Atmosphere" made up for the lack of numbers. Terrific turn out from the Squadron, it was like the whole of bomber command had been scrambled!
As for the game! By far the best game i've seen at Aussie Stadium all year. Bling FC in patches were unstoppable! Brosque, Corica, Milligan, Carney and Topor-Stanley all stood up and produced. In the first half, in particular, the Squadron were often made to look second rate under the Bling FC avalanche! Hats off to the "Butcher" for yet another superb tactical game in a "Pressure-Cooker" match. He seems to employ his best "Wiley Fox" techniques when the game really really counts! If Bling FC's momentum continues like this, i am hard pressed to see anyone capable of stopping them taking the League! Particularly after witnessing the "DOUR AFFAIR" at Hindmarsh! Not a great spectacle for the uniniated Football fan! Neither team looked capable of scoring a goal! Admittidly, the Victory were trying hard to get their defensive combination working well again, which i think they did. However the Croweaters were sadly lacking in attacking inventiveness and played right into the Victory's gameplan! However, i suspect that the return leg at the "Dome" will be an entirely different affair! Particularly after they see the replay of the Squadron v Bling FC second leg which could be a real "Humdinger"!! We've already booked our tickets!

Posted by: johhny warren on January 29, 2007 8:28 PM

I don't know why everyone is suprised with the Sydney FC crowds.
The board took the bling out of SFC to save some dollars.
Sydney siders only respond to bling.

I wonder if SFC is still ahead when you take into account the downturn in crowd numbers, merchandise, etc

as opposed to the money saved in cutting loose Dwight, the last coach (I forget how to spell his name already!) etc

I wonder if they will make a profit this season?

Posted by: pj on January 29, 2007 9:08 PM

Apologies, (back at work today, grumpy mood) but I've found a lot the recent posts tedious in the extreme. If I want to just read bragging about whose city is better etc I'd go to a more juvenile blog. Am I the only person in the Australia who finds the Sydney/Melbourne stuff really tedious? I love both citys and both have things about them that suck big time too and neither of us sadly recognises football as the major code ... and we have Ray Martin, you have Eddie Maguire. There is no lesser of two evils in my mind on this one so I don't watch channel nine except for the cricket ... with commentary from ABC radio.

Ok, it isn't A-League but seeing as we had some discussions about formations etc on the previous blog some of you may be interested in this David Pleat piece in the Guardian on Wayne Rooney and his/Utd's positional play against Portsmouth. Worth reading as much for Miro's post ... the more things change the more they stay the same. Evolution/revolution .... or neither? Bottom line for me is you can say you're playing one formation on paper but it is what you do with it on the park that counts.

"your analysis is superficial there as well. Firstly, the world does not agree with us (you, I and others) that diving is an abomination - in fact most of the world could not give a damn and indeed some openly embrace this as a "skill"."

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo at January 29, 2007 4:39 PM

Thank you very much Pippu, you have won me back quite wittingly with that doosy...spoken like a true Italian.

LOL!!!

~~~

Posted by: Redb at January 29, 2007 4:36 PM

Hey Redneck, you read the daily telegraph for that insight don't you? I am a former RE Agent who works in property development...I know...even if my i.e does not match Pippu's.

Pippu, by the wayt would that not make you a genius?

Posted by: Jed Petersen on January 29, 2007 9:30 PM

Posted by: Vic at January 29, 2007 4:40 PM

Re Frank Lowey vs Kerry Packer,

the only thing that keeps coming to mind to me is that Kerry Packer was a relatively young man, and cricket got the best part of 30 years of him at the helm - effectively.

Don't forget that Benaud was actively involved from a business perspective in establishing World Series, and folk such as Tony Greig and Ian Chappell who jumped on board at the outset as leaders have been very well looked after.

Frank is a more aged gentleman - he has most likely got less time to leave a truely strong legacy.

Good luck to him.

PS go the Vics, top of the Pura cup table.

PPS Pippu - Muscat woulda needed a reverting to the 1863 rules of allowing a goal no matter of height - his attempted kick over his shoulder was comically bad - it looked like a clumsy effort with an ellipsoid!!!

PPPS Pippu - may lament in '96 getting to Arden St just in time to see the train attending crowd dissapate - ruddy short session last before the GF.

Posted by: Michael C on January 29, 2007 9:32 PM

A few terrific posts tonight - some made me laugh out aloud.

Brickowski at January 29, 2007 6:00 PM - as an ex-bogan who has attended a Neil Young concert wearing a flannelette shirt, I can appreciate your concern! (from memory, Neil Young was playing at Festival Hall the night after Twisted Sister - remember them?)

Dazzajapan - nice update on the injury situation, maybe it is now a matter of Arnie trying something out of the ordinary?

" ...in other words they are at the same level as a central coast mariner striker. "

Posted by: Scouser FC at January 29, 2007 6:47 PM

Scouser - a nice follow up to Bricks' bogan post - what can I say - you come good with the laughs time after time!

Glebeboy - yes, agree with your assessment - there's a whole market out there that none of the 4 codes have tapped.

JW - another great rundown of the week's events.

Vicentin - I consider myself sufficiently chastised. In fairness, I've given my serious assessment of the weeks' events - but I seem to get more attention when I'm in one of my WIAP moods (now even I'm using that stupid acronym!)

Lastly, I get the biggest laughs rereading my own posts - what can I say - I never cease to amaze myself - pure genius! (right Jed? - I worked out my IQ with an error of margin of around 25% - but let's not quibble over details!)

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on January 29, 2007 10:03 PM

People,

One interesting little "titbit" of information i picked up at Friday's game in Sydney, that might be of interest to Croweater fans, is that Shandong Luneng and China's current star player Zheng Zhi has gone to Charlton Athletic on loan for the rest of the English season!! He will likely not be lining up against the Croweaters, in the Asian Champions League!! Whohhoo!
Unfortunately for Bling FC, Urawa Red Diamonds did not release their star Brazilian, Alex to Fulham. But there is still 2 days of the January transfer window to go?

Posted by: johhny warren on January 29, 2007 10:15 PM

okay cant be bothered reading the above, anyone wanna fill me in on the arguments and sub topics and blah? anyone? pippu?

Posted by: Eddie on January 29, 2007 10:45 PM

Eddie
To pinch one of Scouser's lines - you have the focus of a CCM striker!

It's mostly blah - but there are the usual gems in amongst my posts - just read mine, you'll be up to date in a jif!

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on January 30, 2007 7:44 AM

There was an article in the Herald Sun today about the new stadium for melbourne, the melbourne demons have used the good ol we've been round longer than you combo. The political games are hilarious....

Posted by: EDWARD JAY at January 29, 2007 5:09 PM
Thanks for the insight into west sydney. Its a possibility that after the 5 year one team per city policy is over, potential investors will come to the FFA and want to put another team in sydney, most likely the west. Will be interesting to see future developments in sydney.

Posted by: fred on January 30, 2007 8:10 AM

Pippu et al -

more on the Melb rectangular stadium this morning.

The public re-iteration that 'Melb Inc' (comprising MVFC, Storm and Melbourne Demons FC) all signed a MOU - and that the venue may go ahead irrespective of Victory - or is that just the public line at the moment aimed at forcing their hand. 3 yrs hence would be a far better timing of this project - but Melb Demons want their you beaut training facility sooner rather than later and the niche sports either get on board or get alienated.

(btw - good snippet on weekend in paper showing the Vics great new cricket facilities at the MCG - on a par or better than QLD at Alan Border field, but (better location) at MCG they can warm up in inside nets that vary the lighting to match outside, and have a choice of 'pitch conditions' to replicate outside - and then walk straight out to the middle) - more and more clubs/teams can't be afford to be left behind.)

re Allsop

a caller on SEN last night vented frustration at his apparent lack of nouse - that for a striker he seemed to have no anticipation, ability to read play etc. Just how then did he get 11 goals? Is the Golden boot winner an embarrasment who slipped under the radar of opposition early on? or is he the best there is in the A-League? (obviously I'm no judge on this).

Diving a skill

Hmmm, diving is a skill and a skill worth learning - thinking of fly fishing ads - but obviously, anything that can give an advantage within the scope of the application (or not) of the rules of a game is therefore a valid tactic.

Whether it is within the 'spirit' of the game is another question - but generally 'spirit' is out of place in professional contests (even the 'beautiful' game).

Posted by: Michael C on January 30, 2007 8:59 AM

Speaking of the mariners, former player Oliver Bozanic (although only in the pre-season) has just signed with EPL team Reading.

I belted Redb about the face and head a little earlier...not for the first time either!

And yeas Pippu declared his intellectual superiority over all on the FLOG.

And after all the chest beating about Victorians not needing a rectangular sporting arena to be truely the sporting capital it seems plans are well afoot albeit experiencing teething problems. Perhaps the Victoria government are acutely aware of their flagship city's glaring deficiencies. Kudos to them.

Posted by: Jed Petersen on January 30, 2007 9:43 AM

Sydney current crowds.
Last season the Wests-Tigers hoped to be the 1st Sydney team to average 20k for a season(NRL),they are 2 x hundred year old clubs at 2 home grounds,Balmain & Campbelltown.
The Bulldogs were the first team to move to Telstra as a home base,they are one of the leading crowd pullers,the last 2 seasons they have pulled 30k plus to 3 matches,Broncos,Dragons esp.,but after a lot of Bulldog games the TV interview parents with kids swearing never to return to a Bulldogs game,although they have been life long supporters.
But the Swans are successfull?
It did take them 20 years.
The NRL had the super league war that drove people away to other sports.
The NRL got a bad rep with after hours stuff which drove people away.
They empoly marque players,so even if you don't follow them that much,you know
Capper,Plucker,B.B.BAZ.
There use to be the story that a lot of girls go to watch them.
They play at the most beautiful sports ground in the world,the SCG(po cheech,Adel.Oval is 2nd.),I saw the original Socceroos play Uragray there as a kid in that infamous blood bath in '73 or '74.

Don't expect a Wollongong team to draw big crowds.WIN is regarded as one of the best NRL stadiums in the world(19k) with talk of a new western stand.Its in a great location right on Wollongong Beach.

Posted by: EDWARD JAY on January 30, 2007 9:50 AM

I can't prove that this is true,but it came from a Melbourne Fan whom I trust:About Rob Baan

During the Adelaide vs Melbourne match last night, someone heard him say "Graham, where are the players coming through, I have no talent to chose? We will never win a Olympic tournament with these untechnical players."

Posted by: DazzaJapan on January 30, 2007 11:15 AM

Branko Culina reckons Melbourne are stuffed,based on his coaching experiences in the NSL.

His main point being that Ernie Merrick had no need to rotate players after they won the title in a 21 round season.

He says there is no necessity for this in Australia and we are just copying the Chelseas of the football world but points out that these European teams need a rotation system because they play up to 60 matches per season.
We play close to one third of that.

Its amazing how many players have done time a Balcktown City Demons...what a club.

Posted by: Jed Petersen on January 30, 2007 11:26 AM

Posted by: DazzaJapan at January 30, 2007 11:15 AM

Thats why Rob Baan has been employed, to help the technical development of the game. Changes will be made and seeds planted but the fruits wont be ripe for quite a few years yet. As i have said many times, change is a slow process and does not happen overnight.

Posted by: Fred on January 30, 2007 11:29 AM

Following DazzaJapan's post at January 29, 2007 6:26 PM - I've decided to rejig the Socceroos line up assuming that all the players that Dazza cites are out. I offer two formations, both of them patented by me: my preferred 4-1-4-1 line up (the stacked spinning tops set up - for reasons I will soon explain) and my more radical progressive liberal ultra modern ultra sleek "I" formation (3-1-1-5).

Bloody hell - Dazza's right - there's virtually no one left on the bench! Where are our left footers? I think we are going to have to draft a few more into the squad. Apart from the formation resembling spinning tops, the name also refers to the constant rotation of all 5 up front so that that opposition backs don't know who's coming or going.

But it looks like we are going to have to go with my patented "I" formation (3-1-1-5):

Kisnorbo-Moore-Beauchamp
Grella
Skoko
Emerton-Griffiths-Viduka-Holman-Sterjovski (or any left footer we can find lurking anywhere in Europe)

The "I" formation looks pretty radical, but the key is that the front 5 start deep and run forward in waves upon getting possession, forming 3, 4, 5 triangles surging forward in an ultra quick motion, keeping possession, passing the ball around like a pin ball machine, ultra quick, ultra slick, ultra accurate, bamboozling even the stoutest of defences. When it breaks down, the 5 sprint back in unison to start it all again - no jogging around like prima donnas - no moping - no complaining that they didn't get that magic pass that would have allowed them to score - it's all motion for the full 90 minutes at close to full sprints - skill, pace, accuracy and extreme fitness and recovery is the name of the game in the 21st century!

It's pretty tight people - we need reinforcements - I'm getting a little old - is there anyone not playing finals who can join the squad? We need fresh ideas - now!

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on January 30, 2007 11:29 AM

"I saw the original Socceroos play Uragray there as a kid in that infamous blood bath in '73 or '74."

I saw the same match and great to see that you were there supporting football,but as for the rest of it ,your beginning to sound like the Sydney equivalent of the WIAP people from Melbourne with NRL inserted into every post instead of AFL.
I am at a loss to understand the point you are making because to me it is clouded by your NRL references.

Are you trying to say that because RL is 100 years old in Sydney and cannot draw decent crowds despite saturation coverage that any sport including football is destined to do the same.

Because to be honest that is totally misleading.

The massive difference between football and RL in Sydney is that RL has tapped into its market 100% theres nowhere to go.

You cant put any more water into a dripping wet dishcloth.

Football would be lucky if its absorbed 50% of the available water into its Australian dishcloth in Sydney.

That is the point I and others are making and that is why I said before I dont give a toss what the NRL does, Sydney footballs problems and by connection Sydney FC's problems are to do with attracting that 50% into the dishcloth be they kids or adults playing the game with their Man United Shirts on at training Aussie fans and indeed migrant fans who follow an overseas club and cant let go.

Have a look at the latest Sweeney sports report if you think I'm talking garbage heres the link

As you can see Football(soccer) has a 61% interest in Sydney and RL 53%.

The difference is and the point I am making is that 100% of that 53% RL following is dedicated to the NRL whereas of the 61% that have an interest in football(soccer) it is a fragmented market with( and this in my opinion is an overstatment) no more than 50% of that 61% following Sydney FC in the A-league.

Posted by: Vic on January 30, 2007 12:10 PM

Branko Culina reckons Melbourne are stuffed,based on his coaching experiences in the NSL.

Posted by: Vic at January 30, 2007 11:21 AM

I reckon Branko is spot on. AU were all over MVFC on Sunday, just impotent in front of goal.

MV play so narrowly, they lack width in their play making them easy to defend against of late. Neither Alessandro nor Caceres played on Sunday which is telling. If Merrick reintroduces those 2 I think they're a chance. As it stands the pace of Archie, Fred, Allsopp et all is nullified by their midfielders not playing them into space with width.

But for mine and in spite of MVFC home ground advantage, AU are clear favourite to host the GF.

Melbourne had a longer pre-season than any other club but pre-season is pre-season, it's not the cut & thrust of the real thing

Posted by: Glebeboy on January 30, 2007 12:19 PM

Posted by: Vic at January 30, 2007 11:21 AM

From my soccer ignorant perspective - as soon as it was announced that they would fiddle and rest players my ears pricked up for the following reasons.

-if it ain't broke don't fix it - you never mess with sporting momentum or a winning formula; winning is a confidence thing as much as anything else, the old truism, you don't lose your ability overnight (so what has MVFC lost?)

-in AFL scenarios, the clubs that struggle in the finals are those generally whose players have been most interrupted in the month leading into the finals campaign - this is the last time you'd contemplate 'resting' half the team.

-my background in AFL is that getting players to mould together and run in the right places at the right time is such a fine line that it's even dangerous to 'switch' it off to coast home in the last quarter, as Pippu knows from 2 particular Prelim finals in the late 90's, as soon as the foot comes off the pedal then it can all deconstruct very quickly.

So to say that I was flabbergasted is an understatement. It's one thing for a player to play like a millionaire, but for a coach to coach like one - that so easily instills poor attitude in the player group (only needs a 1 or 2 % drop). It's always got to be 1 week at a time. Perhaps Merrick is too familiar with a non-Finals season (EPL) player management approach/model - and this illustrates the difference in the value given to finishing first at the end of the season - in AFL that can be as useless as being top at the end of May (Pippu might remember my Rooboys out in straight sets in '83).

-I recognise the limitations of the small squads and lack of 2ndary competition for those guys missing out - that's a crappy structure - however, Ernies plan seemed as sound on paper as England playing Ash Giles because he might offer a handful more runs than Monty

-anyway, at the time I said nothing as no one else seemed to question the wisdom and soccer is after all a different game.....and there's nowt to be learned from the sporting world beyond soccer itself.....

Posted by: Michael C on January 30, 2007 12:28 PM

Excellent and innovative Pippu!! glad I am not doing the running!LOL
I can't see Moore playing to be honest.Wilkshire and Neill definitely out.Wilkshire has to have a knee-op.Left players we can choose in Europe would be Eddy Bosnar,Ljubo Milicevic or Heffernan.Casey Wehrmann may get a shot again..or Stefanutto.I can see the case for bringing in Nick Ward or Neil Kilkenny..and of course Scotty and Superdave.For all the naysayers who say that these players are not match-fit..could you say that Aloisi,Culina,Chipperfield,Viduka are? I don't think so.Even Jason has been getting ten minute runs of late.All we need now is for all the pressure put on Grella and Cahill and have them injured and then we have a catastrophe on our hands for the Asian cup.We all know that Vinnie and Timmy will run themselves into the ground protecting a weakened (weekend?) defence.
Still inspired by that I - formation.

Posted by: DazzaJapan on January 30, 2007 12:38 PM

Posted by: Vic at January 30, 2007 12:10 PM

You weren't doing the washing up by any chance before you wrote that piece were you?

Posted by: Jed Petersen on January 30, 2007 12:47 PM

The difference is and the point I am making is that 100% of that 53% RL following is dedicated to the NRL whereas of the 61% that have an interest in football(soccer) it is a fragmented market with( and this in my opinion is an overstatment) no more than 50% of that 61% following Sydney FC in the A-league.

Posted by: Vic at January 30, 2007 12:10 PM

Do you have a pie graph for this?

Posted by: Scouser FC on January 30, 2007 12:59 PM

I am at a loss to understand the point you are making because to me it is clouded by your NRL rePosted by: Vic at January 30, 2007 12:10 PM ferences.

The point is NRL have been & trying to draw crowds to Sydney for 100 years,don't think your going to walk into this city & draw 32k to a soccer semi.Its extremely ignorant,& you still have to change the line of thought of Sydney siders.People on this blog have been demanding Sydney get bigger crowds,I'm telling you realistically what Sydney draws in other sports,your all telling us it should be higher in soccer???????????????You've got to lose that great expectation.

Thanks for the link'I'll try to get to this arvo,but Sweenys,weren't they the ones who told us to punt our houses on a Dr John Hewston was it liberal election win.

Posted by: EDWARD JAY on January 30, 2007 1:09 PM

"I saw the original Socceroos play Uragray there as a kid in that infamous blood bath in '73 or '74."

I saw the same match.
Posted by: Vic at January 30, 2007 12:10 PM

My mates mum got us tickets in The Sheridan with all the Uragrians.Where were you?

Posted by: EDWARD JAY on January 30, 2007 1:34 PM

Michael C
I agree with you 100% - we have two decades of AFL finals results that tell you the same story over and over. It's no different in soccer, indeed, with all these short term signings of golden oldies I've argued that it simply upsets team balance (as happened to the Croweaters at a crucial stage of the season).

In the preview to round 19, I wrote:

" Perth vs Vics
Ernie is resting Allsopp and Fred, and a couple of others are on suspensions, including Thompson. The following three are getting their first starts for the season: striker James Robinson and midfielders Vince Lia and Michael Ferrante. It's always hard to predict what this sort of shifting around of players will result in, both for the game this weekend and for the finals themselves. Resting players and playing around with team structures can work both ways. However, the Vics are maintaining most of their back half as is. Vics yet to drop a single point away, this may be the closest they come... "

So you are right, I hinted at some concern, but I wasn't as forthright as I probably should have been, and as you were probably thinking at the time. The truth is, I thought the Vics' depth was exceptional (Sarkies, in his first start for the season scored two 2nd half goals to tie it up).

I'm hoping that having got through last week relatively unscathed, that they will find their form - but then there is the Dome record to contend with - an atrocious record - our only saving grace is that the Croweaters have now scored 2 goals in 4 matches against the Vics this season, and the Vics definitely still possess the firepower to get the necessary result (I hope!).

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on January 30, 2007 1:43 PM

Posted by: Vic at January 30, 2007 12:10 PM

I dont think sydney has a problem at all, the fact that the average has dropped by 2000 people per game is neither here nor there in the scale of things. I have heard rumblings of sydney fans complaining that they dont hear about the games, this is probably to do with the lack of marketing allocated, this is all normal fluctuation. You also need to remember that the team is only 2 years old!!

Posted by: Fred on January 30, 2007 1:58 PM

Posted by: EDWARD JAY at January 30, 2007 1:09 PM

You can accuse me of ignorance but I did live in Sydney for 12 years and have first hand knowledge of RL from one being brought up in the north of England and two by family links so on Sydney & RL I am far from ignorant.

If you wish to be also ignorant yourself and dismiss what I have stated thats your perogative but my view is that you cant see the woods for the NRL trees.

Were going to have to agree to disagree on this one Edward Jay as
we are coming from obviously two totally different life experiences of living in Australia and if you haven't got the point and the truth of what I am saying you never will.

You obviously are not a serious football person or you would have read the Sweeney link and not tried to take the piss out of it.

Posted by: EDWARD JAY at January 30, 2007 1:34 PM

Getting back to matters of football only, If the Sheridan stand is the one behind the goal where Australia were attacking in the second half that Ray Baartz scored the brilliant goal in ,then not long after the big Uruguayan chopped him down then yes I was in that stand too.

Posted by: Vic on January 30, 2007 2:11 PM

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo at January 30, 2007 11:29 AM

The patented "I" formation - looks nice - I just hope that Denmark don't play with wingers or fullbacks!

Assuming we play with a psuedo back four ( which Arnold apparently prefers) could Emmo play left back and Kisnorbo or Thwaite on the right? He played n the left for Rovers a few times. Or what about griffiths? He's got a left peg - stick him at left back, sterjovski could play as an attacker on the left, he did it at the WC. Maybe it is time to give Steffanutto a call though.

Posted by: Ben G on January 30, 2007 2:19 PM

Posted by: Jed Petersen at January 30, 2007 12:47 PM

No Jed actually I was thinking of a joke regarding a wet dish cloth in which a diver went through a series of high dives from a 200 metre tower,each dive the size of the pool and the depth of the water being reduced.

Till eventually in the penultimate dive he plummets spectacularly into a bucket of water and lives, but on the last dive they replace the bucket with a wet dish cloth and he breaks his neck and dies.

Posted by: Vic on January 30, 2007 2:25 PM

That Sweeney report does make interesting reading.

Apart from the fact that there is much there to please WIAP fans, this what I get out of the report on a more general level:

1. Soccer has reached a peak, but the historic info does suggest it is cyclical in and around the WC - so it will be interesting how things go from here. I think it will remain a touch cyclical, but it will not drop to the lower levels of previous years.

2. Soccer's ratings are second to AFL, but that's only because of the WC - quite simply, without FTA, it cannot remain up there.

3. The Melbourne, Adelaide, Perth and Hobart figures tell us clearly that a significant % of the population of those cities follow AFL and soccer quite happily. We certainly know that to be true in the case of Melbourne. I was surprised, though to see AFL a fraction above soccer in Brisbane - this supports what I have thought that the cities of Perth, Adelaide and Brisbane will probably always the one team.

4. There is no doubt about it - the figures tell us that support from soccer in Sydney is more than 50% higher than AFL - yet it is the Swans with over 30,000 financial members, and who are capable of almost filling Telstra Stadium. Which ever way you look at it - Vic is right - the figures suggest that Sydney should be filling SFS every time they play a final there (and should be averaging close to 30,000 at its home games). Afterall, it's one team only - I simply can't understand why this wouldn't be the case.

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on January 30, 2007 2:40 PM

"Maybe it is time to give Steffanutto a call though."

Posted by: Ben G at January 30, 2007 2:19 PM

Maybe its time that he and other Queenslanders came back to play for the Roar.

Posted by: Vic on January 30, 2007 2:41 PM

Ben G

don't worry - I've got it all worked out - it's a trap to induce the full back and winger to exploit the space left for them - they put the cross in, but everyone in the middle is absolutely covered! (such is the level of fitness introduced) - then we pick them off going the other way! Before the opposition realises it, it's a 5 on 3.

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on January 30, 2007 2:47 PM

Vic/Edward Jay

I see what Vic is saying. Basically in Sydney you are either a NRL fan or not. But for Assocation Football there still those that only except European football for example and reject the A-league. Essentially this is an area where Football can expand, as they already like the code and are just being pretentiousin not accepting the local version.

apologies though Vic, if I missed ur point.

Posted by: Scouser FC on January 30, 2007 3:00 PM

Posted by: Scouser FC at January 30, 2007 3:00 PM

Spot on Scouser FC you put it in a nutshell.

Posted by: Vic on January 30, 2007 3:09 PM

Re all this about Sydney expectations and Sweeney reports -

my observations are thus :

Sydney is saturated via the media with NRL - as Vic stated - and this seems out of balance with 2 'modern' kpi's of attendance and club membership. Attendance can't really be argued post the availability of SFS and Telstra. And yet the ratings are off the roof and attendances max's out for SoO. Really - the NRL 53% is only max'd out in front of the tele, not in the other 2 kpi's - they do therefore have scope to 'improve' their fan to supporter ratio.

However:

My argument has always been that the NRL attendances to a degree ought not be compared to AFL for example - reason being that AFL is the 'ultimate' level (since the discontinuation of SoO). In NRL SoO is obviously considered by Sydney folk as the ultimate, whilst the ARU folk consider the BluddySlow as the ultimate. These are the contests that draw the crowds.

Therefore - is it so surprising that the Socceroos would easily achieve a sell out where as SFC might struggle to go past 25K?

And the more exposure the Socceroos may get, and the more games held in Australia - may in fact weaken long term concern for the A-League (putting it in a similar basket as Domestic interstate cricket).

Whether soccer can 'mobilise' it's latent support base to the A-League is a very interesting question - not just in Sydney - but consistantly across the country.

Is MVFC a flash in the pan this season?

One wonders what overlap there is of the 61% and 53% in Sydney? How many of these folk are perfectly happy just watching the tele or down at the pub/leagues club.

(irony, AFL isn't that flash on tele, it really is best to be there, and yet the rectangular codes on a smaller pitch have more people closer to more action but also transcend to tv all the better too - ahh, who can rationalise any of it?!?!?)

So because a kid wears a Man U shirt, is that much different to the countless kids that wore Michael Jordan singlets? Just what proportion of these kids will buy an SFC top or a Melb Tigers top? And even these days, there's so much green and gold merchandise that many people needn't even buy a socceroos top. How many more kids play junior basketball compared to people attending top level matches?

btw Scouser - I'd have thought some on this flog indicate that you are more either 150% Soccer - or not - I can't speak for NRL folk. So now I'm figuring the Sweeney report has catered for all 114% of Sydneysiders......

Posted by: Michael C on January 30, 2007 3:14 PM

Posted by: Scouser FC at January 30, 2007 3:00 PM

But just hang back a while.

I like to watch the Newcastle Knights in the NRL...granted the game is full of yobbos and d1ckheads its fun to watch the odd game but I am unashamedly a Football fan first and foremost. And I certainly don't share Soccer_Queer's views on RL either.

I agree on the Euro v AU Football point though, many people dismiss the A-League out of hand. These people largely were Marconi, United or Olympic fans in the NSL however...draw your own conclusions there.

Posted by: Jed Petersen on January 30, 2007 3:36 PM

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo at January 30, 2007 1:43 PM

"the Vics definitely still possess the firepower to get the necessary result "

I think that firepower was all used up during the home and away season. Archie and Allsop didn't look to be in any form what so ever on Sunday - hope that continues.

Posted by: cheech on January 30, 2007 3:43 PM

hahaha!! a perfect plan! Pippu you are a tactician! How about the seldom-employed O formation in which our players run around the other team whooping and shaking their fists? to date it hasn't produced many goals but it confuses the hell out of all the opposition...and that is half the battle!They never know when Schwarzer will suddenly leap out at goal with a killer right footed volley...and since most of Arnold's selection will be playing in wheelchairs before the Asian Cup it makes for a highly mobile squad.

I think we should force Harry off the mic and get him down as a super-sub.Even with crutches he will be faster than Craig Moore.

Posted by: Dazza on January 30, 2007 3:45 PM

Posted by: Jed Petersen at January 30, 2007 3:36 PM

Hmm, NRL, where the hooligans are on the pitch compared to soccer where they're in the stands....

VIC.
I base my comments on facts.
Sweenys said that election,Dr John was an election that could not be lost,even with the GST.That is fact not taking the piss.
The fact is no sporting team,except now maybe the swans,are going to draw the crowds you desire in Sydney,after 2 seasons.I mentioned the Sydney sports culture earlier,what did Johhny Warren say, they call soccer players,Wogs,poofters & shielers,maybe your on to something Vic & SFC should market to that crowd,Oxford St is just up the road from the SFS.
As for were I stand,I'm about to sign up for around my 40th season of soccer(not counting double headers),I'm a life member of my current club(& their are only 4 of us in 40 years),I played soccer for my school,but also seasons of Union & a league Knock out at school, & 1 season of league in the outback.I have attended a lot of NRL games years ago,but I also attended state soccer,& some internationals,I have never been to a NRL international.

Posted by: EDWARD JAY on January 30, 2007 4:09 PM

Posted by: Michael C at January 30, 2007 4:03 PM

Was "dis-infranchised" as pun?

There are parallels. NRL was lucky, the arranged marriages of Illawara-St.George, Wests-Balmain have worked. Only Norths-Manly failed. And Souths you'll recall had their day in court and won.

At the moment there is no way those three Football clubs are going to get back into the A-League unfer the new regime. The fans of those clubs are bitterly patriotic and refuse to accept the A-League out of principle...however, I can understand their frustrations...in the NSL, we (as non-ethnic aligned supporters) were given Parra Power and Northern Spirit and a chance to support the world game domestically...but you typical aussie refused to support them and they folded along with the NSL...so its tuff to say to the supporters of those three former NSL teams "hey get behind the A-League" cause its hypocritical...where were all the new found Football fans the thousands we've seen at games these past two years back in the NSL?

The phrase I have directed at you previously rings true for these groups however - if not you, your children will do!

Posted by: Jed Petersen on January 30, 2007 4:27 PM

Edward and Vic

If there's no overlap - then Sweeneys have accounted for all 114% of Sydneysiders. That's solid accounting - Enron eat your heartout.

Surely Eddies point being that the NRL - which is apparently the biggest game in town (Syd) - and tv ratings back this up, has failed to mobilise people (either to attend or become members). The Swans have {is this expat Vic's who support a different sporting model more willingly?}.

So whether it be 53% or 61%, it comes down to the number of people able to be mobilised to attend/sign up and not just glue to the tele. I.E. the fan to supporter ratio - example being my AFL club North Melb which is regarded as having a very high ratio of supporters vs fans - not much untapped wealth out there.

MVFC have displayed what can happen {but again, is that a different sporting culture in a different city}. So the biggest city with the biggest soccer sub-strata must be expected to provide the biggest crowds - and it ain't happening.

The A-League is not yet a resounding success. It seems to be in Melbourne, it almost is in Brisbane, it may be in Adelaide. Fact is that Sydney is a big question mark.

Or do we just gauge success by the number of people who can't get out of their lounge or further from home than their local?

Just how relative is it?

btw -

I always maintain that the highest level diminishes the lower level contests. Such that SoO diminishes NRL club football (obviously ARL Internationals are not rated by most), Bledisloe Cup games diminish Super 14s and club Rugby, Socceroos diminish the A-League. Maybe Sydney is a more accurate indication. Perhaps Melb and Bris will both drop back to a lower average as the Socceroos increase their profile domestically via the Asian Cup.

Posted by: Michael C on January 30, 2007 4:34 PM

"agree on the Euro v AU Football point though, many people dismiss the A-League out of hand. These people largely were Marconi, United or Olympic fans in the NSL however...draw your own conclusions there."

Posted by: Jed Petersen at January 30, 2007 3:36 PM

Let me just make one further point re this Euro v Au football business and probably why have more insight into this than most on the flog.

AS a migrant when you first come here and if you are a football fan ( and I'm talking about nearly 40 years ago) you initially meet other migrant football fans if you follow the game.

All including me had the perception that Oz football was crap and at that time in comparison with Europe it was.
Believe me Jed Poms are as bad as any Marconi or Olympic fan its just not as obvious as there was no "Yorkshire Pudding club" or "Bangers and Mash club" in the old NSL to point a finger at.
But just check out the amount of supporters clubs tied to an English or Scottish club in Australia and you'll see that they are there in numbers(as shown by the friendly matches and their attendances I mentioned earlier)

Unfortunately just like I told Edward Jay that he couldn't see the woods for the NRL trees these people as the game advanced couldn't see the Oz football improvements for their nostalgic Euro,Anglo romanticism.

Whats more they passed on these perceptions to their children consequently they reject the A-League out of hand.

As Scouser FC said these people already like the game and there are a lot of them.
If fans of other sports wish to jump on the Football bandwagon come on through but these recalcitrant football people are the ones who will determine the long term future of the A-League, because it means that at long last football in Australia has reached a standard and intensity that even this group of "Blind Freddys" cant ignore.

Posted by: Vic on January 30, 2007 4:35 PM

Melb Vic fans....two words for you:

Wobly Boots

Posted by: sampsonobrian on January 30, 2007 4:40 PM

Ben Willing: Are you aware that the term 'FLOG' is making great advances into the Internet lexicon
- meaning Fake BLOG ! i.e where entries & responses are setups ?

not that this applies to this BLOG
... though sometimes ???

Ben Willing: Yes, I had heard about that recently. You appear to be anonymous ... how do I know you actually exist?

Posted by: Anonymous on January 30, 2007 4:51 PM

# Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo at January 30, 2007 7:44 AM

Thanks

# Posted by: Jed Petersen at January 30, 2007 9:43 AM

I was just pointing out that pippu has more time then anyone in the flog, his the resident flogger.

lol

and

Pippu,

looks like dukes might be out too... i wouldn't mind giving, troisi a look and williams and Wesolowski a go with holman and blah blah and play 4-5-1 or maybe 4-4-2 at the moment with that injury list

oh that I formation, i had grella and wilkshire in there because u will need hard hard hard working midfielders and wing backs...

and plus.. i was just having a go at the english game lol and oh yes i was tipsey at the time

Posted by: Anonymous on January 30, 2007 4:56 PM

um that no name comment was by me

Posted by: Eddie on January 30, 2007 4:57 PM

Posted by: EDWARD JAY at January 30, 2007 4:09 PM

Edward Jay I wont bother replying to the above as you and I are on a totally different wavelength as far as football goes and the low SW&P reference doesnt deserve a reply anyway.

But for a further insight into my perspective see Jed and Scouser FC posts and my reply below.

Posted by: Vic at January 30, 2007 4:35 PM

Posted by: Vic on January 30, 2007 5:01 PM

I read the Sweeny report.
It also states soccer does not get a mention in the top 10 most important events although by that stage we should have qualified for the WC.
I'd love to see 40k at the SFS every week,Jed & myself are maybe just trying to bring you guys back to earth.If I go to my local this arvo & I start boasting I read this report that says soccer is as popular in oz as AFL,& more popular than cricket,I would be cut down,"just stick to the porno's,Edy" they'd say.The report might look good on paper.

Beer o'clock.

Posted by: EDWARD JAY on January 30, 2007 5:09 PM

Posted January 30, 2007 4:51 PM

Fake blog? I don't get it. Where did you see/hear it - and what is it intimating? That people are writing under different aliases? That you (Ben that is) are putting up fake posts? Or maybe all the sports journos don't like the fact that I beat them to the punch on all the big issues, time after time after time....

I would have thought that with the variety of views being put up (including WIAP posts) that it was fair dinkum.

What do others think? Apart from your suspicion that I might simply be too brilliant to be a mere mortal, do you have any reservations about this blog?

pippu d'angelo (my real name)

Ben Willing: It was in some news story about new buzz words or something similar. It doesn't intimate anything about this particular FLOG - just coincidence.

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on January 30, 2007 6:41 PM

# Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo at January 30, 2007 6:41 PM

it was me that did it by accident cause some brains at smh IT department forgot to put a check with the compulsory names...

ben willing can I make a few suggestions for improvements? minor ones of course

Ben Willing: Of course you can.

Posted by: Eddie on January 30, 2007 6:55 PM

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo at January 30, 2007 2:47 PM

Pippu, you have indeed thought of everything. God help those hapless, princess stealing Danes.

Posted by: Ben G on January 30, 2007 7:07 PM

"The A-League is not yet a resounding success."

Posted by: Michael C at January 30, 2007 4:34 PM

Is there anyone else other than Pippu, Redb, Kurt that agree with this statement?

Where's the Australian footage? Obviously the director wasn't aware of the little dry patch we had (ie: 1974-2005)

Posted by: Scouser FC on January 30, 2007 8:09 PM

1. In England the premiership is shown only on Pay TV, not FTA. I think this is the same as Italy & Spain. So I don't see the issue.

2. The A-League is only 2 years old, so for people to complain about a 21,000 crowd in the finals is a compliment to the A-League. The old NSL would have loved a crowed of 21,000 for a semi finals.

3. In England the Premiership is huge, the Champions league is huge, the European championship is huge & the world cup is huge. This is the same as in Spain & Italy. No reason why this can't be the same in Australia for football, we can have a successful A-League, ACL, Asian cup & Socceroos. We can have it all.

4. Sydney crowds, very good article in the other Sydney paper from one of Ben's Cove mates. He says that we should all tell our friends who follow the game but do not follow the A-League, that the only way to build the local league is to support it. Go to the matches, watch the matches on pay TV, buy the merchandise, use the sponsors & let them know that you found out about them via your club.
The way to grow our league to keep the top players here is to encourage growth & Australia will be able to hold on to their top players & have a very strong competition.

5. The meida is Sydney are very pro NRL (it has taken WAIP nearly 20 years to build up a following in Sydney & still though they have a strong following, they are not in the hearts of most Sydneysiders). Slowly we are getting a little more airtime on print, radio & TV.

6. Go Sydney.

Posted by: Robbos on January 30, 2007 8:32 PM

Apologies re the overlap of my 3.14pm and 4.34pm entries - I'd waited some time without the 3.14 being visible before rewording it. I wasn't trying to double up - (I) just assumed it'd been a send failure.

Back on Melb rectangular stadium - a fair bit of talk on SEN today - some in light of the previously mentioned comments from Melb FC re 150 yrs, Storm 10 yrs and MVFC 5 mins.

They spoke to I think Steve Harris from Melb - who admitted that it was a bit of an 'out there' statement - but that it had the desired effect of gaining some attention (which a perfectly worded and grammatically structured press release may not do). The inference being that News Ltd have happily pushed the Storm line, Fairfax happily pushed Victory's line, but no one has a vested interest in putting the Melb FC position out there.

Reality is that from their perspective - discussions about this venue began several years ago - before Victory was even conceived (remembering it took sometime for the Melb franchise to be confirmed & finalised).
Obviously at that time it was more envisaged to be Storm + a Super 1X? team sharing the playing surface.
Victory are actually a Johnny come lately to the discussions around the venue anyway. Therefore, for them to be delaying the whole project is obviously annoying - although the position of Victory is understood and recognised by MFC.
It needs to be remembered that MFC have no concern for the ground capacity, as they want only the building inc. gym, pool etc and to have their admin and football dept all in the same precinct. They will never touch the turf of the venue, as a rectangle is useless for AFL training (in the main).
People are still pondering why - given that TD grass is 'imported' and 'laid' that the seats can't be brought in for summer.

Funny thing is - to mirror Pippu - on the flog, this topic has been done to death, however on SEN today was really the first day that it got heavy coverage/discussion.

Again, flog sets some agenda, somewhere, maybe.....well,

ps

Posted by: Jed Petersen at January 30, 2007 7:51 PM

Careful quoting out of context - as effectively I infer that the questions marks (raised by many of the floggers herein) over Sydney would indicate that SFC are not a resounding success - and without a continuation of wealthy benefactors, may fall in a whole.

Anyway, can't be called a resounding success until the impact of ACL etc is measureable.

Damn straight sampsonobrian, although I kinda hope victory make the final against SFC, so we get more champions league even if we lose the final (highly unlikely, I know).

Posted by: Brickowski on January 30, 2007 9:17 PM

Robbos at January 30, 2007 8:32 PM

Good post. On your first point however I believe that while the majority of games in Italy are shown on one Silvio's TV stations (ie mainly Pay), at least a couple of Serie A games and all Internationals are shown on the national broadcaster RAI.

Also, while football in these countries is shown (almost) exclusively on pay you must acknowledge that they were all popular established leagues before Pay TV got involved. The situation for Australia is rather different - we're in our development and early growth phase and therefore accessability to the game is critical. I realise that the A-League wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the Pay money but I'm not convinced that having it all on pay is neccessarily good for spreading our game. Conversely with only four games a week there isn't a lot of "product" to share around. Fox should acknowledge that we are very fortunate that SBS exists and gives decent coverage of something they don't have the rights to. In fact they're probably they're spreading the A-League word as much as anyone - and quite specifically to some of those Euro and South American football tragics that are resisting the A-League.

I too read The Cove piece in the Daily Terror today and seem to have been thinking about it on-and-off all day (and not exclusively while on the toilet - Pippu). On the point of financially supporting the club by buying merchandise I have to admit that while I've been very tempted to buy a shirt for my son, and possibly for myself I've baulked at it so far.

I can't remember the exact figures but I think it would cost me about $120 for a replica shirt for my son (nine this year) and a bit more for myself (considerably older). I know it is "merchandise" but don't you think this is a bit steep? And yes I realise that this is what I'd pay for a legit shirt for a Premier/Serie A/Liga etc shirt. I think the clubs should be using shirts as promotional material not just as another profit arm ... but I'm a lefty with a budget. I suspect they could sell three times a many shirts if the prices we're halved. Would their total profits be less? I doubt it, but they'd have three times as much promo material on the streets and at football training, shopping centres ... wherever kids go out.

I think the idea of free entrance for kids is a really good idea as well because ultimately it isn't going to cost the clubs any more because you'll get a whole lot of kids (who we need for the longterm good of the game) coming in to the stadia many of them accompanied by their full paying adult. More kids eating and drinking overpriced stadium food - which they'll be able to walk off on their way to the public transport if they're going to Aussie! More atmosphere and bigger crowd numbers to rub into the noses of RL types. It is shortsighted to be trying to fleece everyone.

Maybe the FFA could subsidise kids entries with a guarantee from the clubs that the money would be spent on youth development and/or promotional activities?

Basta.

Posted by: Vicentin on January 30, 2007 9:46 PM

# Posted by: Scouser FC at January 30, 2007 8:09 PM

it was obvious that the director was an italian? lol

Posted by: Eddie on January 30, 2007 9:49 PM

The A-League is not yet a resounding success."

Posted by: Michael C at January 30, 2007 4:34 PM

I'd have to first quantify how you would measure success.

Posted by: Itzbek the Frog on January 30, 2007 9:58 PM

Everyone probably knows by now that Jed loves to paint the very worst possible picture of me, more often than not, simply to get up my nose.

I can't recall making any comment about the success or otherwise of the A-League at this juncture - I do recall describing my own personal journey over the course of the A-League's 2nd season. I didn't really comment on whether it was a success or not, but I did say that it had been an intriguing season (and remains so).

I did say that 21,000 is a pathetic crowd for a finals game in Australia's biggest city - and I stand by that - it is pathetic! The Jets will attract more than that this weekend and Melbourne would attract triple that if the Dome could fit them in. More reasons why it's pathetic:

1. The Sweeney report has Sydney as having the highest percentage supporting soccer - so not only is it the largest city in Australia, it has the biggest soccer support both in absolute terms and relative terms.

2. Yet it consistently struggles to even match the crowds of the tiny cities to its north.

3. It is the reigning champion - have we forgotten that? It is in with a good chance to defend its title - there is actually no valid reason for its attendances to dip - common sense says that they should have gone the other way!

4. Given the percentage of Melbourne's population that supports AFL, and being a smaller city, why can it attract 50,333 to a home and away game, but Sydney can only attract 21,000 to a finals game?

Look - which ever way you look at it, which ever way you massage the numbers - it's a pathetic turnout - I stand by that claim.

But there is no linkage between me saying that, and my opinion on how the A-League is travelling overall. After two years, I think it's travelling ok, after we get 85,000 to the grand final at the G, we'll be able to conclude that it's been a pretty good season overall! If the Vics win, I'd say we are precisely where we ought to be!

(just a reminder that it was I who predicted after round 5 that Melbourne would play AU at the MCG in the grand final before 75,000 - but since then, I have had good reason to upgrade that estimate to 85,000)

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on January 30, 2007 10:03 PM

Pippu d'Angelo at January 30, 2007 10:03 PM

Pippu, you are "a wind-up merchant" aren't you? I like your bravura but really you are very selective with your facts and knowledge of previous arguments.

I still suspect though that Terry did a lot of damage to Sydney's rep by the style of play earlier in the year.

Also, don't forget that everyone has their biggest crowds against Sydney - so we're propping up the numbers one way or another. But agreed Sydney should be doing better.

Ps Everyone I know who was at Friday's game (I was at a party and had to text a friend for updates!) says there was more than 21,000. Most think there was about 28,000. There was even a story about it in Monday's SMH - something has gone awry there. 28,000 isn't too bad?

Pippu, just like most of us with kids I've had to decide when I'd tell them that Santa Claus doesn't exist but I'm wondering at what age you're planning to tell your kids they don't live in Victoria? Surely, they'll start wondering about the number plates on all the cars at some point. (insert winking smiley face - I call it my proper English emoticon)

Posted by: Vicentin on January 30, 2007 10:53 PM

Foxtel has put us in a double-bind.We should be grateful for the huge money they have pumped into football here in Oz,but I agree wholeheartedly that the lack of access to Foxtel means lack of exposure to Australian football..we simply cannot afford to lode the momentum we gained after the WC and a fascinating AL2.One excellent way I feel Foxtel could defray it's sponsorship costs is to have the A-League syndicated..at least across Asia.With such a small league it would be perfect for overseas fans to get to know the team's styles and 'adopt' an A-league team.Merchandise would be sold and interest would ramp up in Asia for the ACL.Foxtel could offer our league at a cheaper rate than say, the Serie A ,which would be an incentive for Pay TV stations to air it.With an expanding list of players arriving from China,Korea and hopefully other Asian countries it makes sense to exploit this.At present the only A-League story I have seen in Japan (English language paper) was the Terry Butcher saga...there are no updates of our league..scores..ZILCH! This is at complete odds with our move into Asia.On some days there aren7t even any audio webcasts and as a result people such as myself are forced to obtain games via more dubious means.(some individuals are doing more to get our league out to the world than Foxtel etc!LOL good on 'em!) Foxtel frequently offer games on varied channels and that messes with subscriptions too!
SO from foxtel's perspective..they make money from pubs/home views while they are actually robbing the League of fringe fans at games.

Posted by: DazzaJapan on January 30, 2007 11:17 PM

Bricks raises a very good point.

It is actually in the best interests of both Jets and SFC fans that the Vics go straight through to the grand final.

why?

Because winning the prelim, and entry into the grand final will give you automatic entree to the ACL. With the Vics already in, should they win the grand final, the runner up is in anyway.

However, if AU goes through, it then means that either of SFC or the Jets would have to win the grand final to go to Asia in 2008.

So my fellow Sydneysiders - give us all the support that you can muster - even if it leaves a bad taste in your mouths!

Anyway - if SFC cannot be the perennial underachievers I had so hoped they would become - the Croweaters are an excellent back up! And they have the history on the board to boot - two years in a row and they will be on the way to becoming nicely entrenched. We'd have to come up with a term similar to the Colliewobbles - something that will enter the lexicon for all future generations to enjoy. Something that will allow all Australians to unite in mirth against Croweaters. I leave it in the hands of my fellow bloggers!

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on January 30, 2007 11:18 PM

Vicentin, re SFC merchandise
a replica shirt for your sun can be bought for around $80 but you can buy shirts with SFC logo around the $30 range. I'm not too worried about the SFC crowds as next year we will play our main rivals twice unlike this year and the loss of marquee player and limited marketing has also affected the gates these will improve hopefully next year. What is impressive is we have a core group of fans who are loyal, support us and create a great atmosphere at the games. The A-league is only 2 years old and has been a great success, the ACL games have not even started give football time to grow. I think with expansion to say 10 teams Fox would have their quota of matches and would likely off load a game or two to the FTA networks this is likely within a few years.

Posted by: fcstan on January 31, 2007 12:37 AM

good post just before by robbos... It sums up my feelings.. also I would like to say that a football fan will ve drawn to the stadium by good football so the old nsl guys will come along eventually... i am a fan of various clubs overseas.. I just love football... I moved away from Australia to be able to go to the football. It is tiresome living in Sydney where you only have NRL coverage. However all the codes can exist if we don't have all the seasons concurrent. As for the melbourne stadium... it has to be with an eye for development and as the demons don't expect to use it for games... what is the rush... mv needs at least a 30k stadium but better would be a 40k stadium sold out each week... with a waiting list.. otherwise why would they move back from the td? For Sydney the same is true... which is why the SFS is fine. Incidentally i notice they are talking about the NZ franchise... why not add a second and provide a version of a derby for NZ.... ie Auckland v Wellington. If there are two very good offers... this would make nine teams and this would mean another club for Australia to balance... even if it is not for this season but the next... it would give the second applicant time to build up an excellent business plan. Something should be done to develop the possibility for these two teams to be allowed into the qualifying for Oceanias club comp... adding the same furor that will be the case for aussie teams. Additionally, living here in Buenos Aires, I am able to see teams from Mexico and Costa Rica and others who have been invited into the Copa Libertadores or Sudamericana which is the continental comp of South America. Mexico is North America... it gives me the impression that there is no reason why NZ clubs or indeed a 3rd placed Aussie team might not be invited to add weight to and further develop the Oceania comp. Which would not be access to the world club championship but a further assistance to our brothers in Oceania. Also a nice trip for the 3rd Aussie team!! Or how about a 3rd Aussie team playing in the second tier Asian Comp to help it prepare for future and add depth to this!! Adding more popularity to football in all its comps is a must to keep football at the top table in Aussie society... Sydneysiders demand to see winners.. thats why attendances were down slightly! Add in the semi or should we say quarter final and subsequent matches and the figures will be healthier!!

Posted by: juanpabloangel on January 31, 2007 6:03 AM

Posted by: Vicentin at January 30, 2007 9:46 PM

I could not agree with you more Vicentin, the prices for the merchandise is very expensive & if they were half priced, all the kids would get a shirt & you couldn't pay for that sort of advertisement. Kids running around the playgrounds with the SFC shirts on.
I have 2 girls & I have brought them the replica shirts at the ground @ $30 a shirt.
But yes if shirts & tickets were cheaper for kids, it would be a great investment.

Posted by: Robbos on January 31, 2007 7:57 AM

Just returned from the Harbour City, SFS (Aussie) is impressive from the air. Pity you buggers can't fill it. :-)

Glebeboy, fair enough. Reckon though that will take time and many of these are juniors. There are enormous benefits to attracting dual fans. The football snobbery spoken of by Vic I think along the lines of my comment. ie: If your not 100% soccer you are not a true fan and not worthy of making a comment. I and many other AFl fans will never give up footy, it is in our blood and why should we, its a great game . It doesn't mean we can't follow other football codes though and enjoy.

Pippu, There is some good tension in the air for the Victory game this week. Should be a sell out or go close. Agree MVFC have the colliwobbles, but surely an improvement on their first year. Bling FC look the team to beat.

Article in THE AGE this morning that Bracks will go it alone on the new Melb rectangular stadium with or without Victory. I think he is right, although they should build it to 25K. Most Victory home games against Central Coast, NZ, Newcastle and even Perth would be fine with 25K. Transfer the Syd, QLD and Adelaide games to the Dome. Especially if they have a poor year on the scoreboard. Getting a little ahead of themselves at the Victory methinks and still have the Dome. (pay the money to move the seats in).

Interesting that Melb Storm have no such aspirations for a bigger stadium and the new national club rugby comp with a Melb club is not concerned.

Jed, suggest your just beating yourself. LOL :-) The name calling is hilarious, your not a pimply 14 year old by chance. Grow up son.

cheers
Redb

Posted by: Redb on January 31, 2007 9:23 AM

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo at January 30, 2007 11:18 PM

The croweaters will be in the ACL two years running. That is my prediction.

The clubs agreed to a 7.5 million ($A12.6 million) deal for the
30-year-old striker at Madrid's Santiago Bernabeu Stadium, the Web
site of Italian sports daily Gazzetta dello Sports reported.

Milan striker Ricardo Oliveira will move to Madrid on loan as
part of the deal, Gazzetta said. "

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on January 31, 2007 9:25 AM

Vicentin at January 30, 2007 10:53 PM

Vicentin
Let me be very clear, I honestly think that 21,000 for a finals game in Sydney is pathetic. If the true figure was around 28,000, we probably woudn't be discussing it at all.

But on SFC's attendance more generally - they are the reigning champions, and they were in 2nd possie for much of the season - I don't believe we should be accepting a dip in crowds for SFC at all! And on the back of the WC!

Conversely, the Vics had sold around 11,000 memberships before the season had even begun, on the back of finishing 2nd last! So I simply do not accept any excuses re SFC attendances - it's weak and it certainly points to a wider dilemma in the Sydney market itself, and perhaps far deeper than we all realise.

Re the question of my statehood (if I may put it that way), my son definitely sees Melbourne as our 2nd city (remembering that nannu and nanna still live there). When he was barely a week old, he already had a Bulldogs lifetime supporters certificate hanging on his wall. He has come to understand what's important (with a bit of prompting!). He can choose his own religion, but I will leave little to chance regarding football codes: 1. as long as it's a ball the requires kicking rather than throwing; 2. red, white and blue will be the only colours we ever see around the house. You can take the boy out of Footscray, but you will never, ever take Footscray out of the boy! (incidentally, the Dome is situated at the end of Footscray Road)

Lastly, you shouldn't underestimate how much southern NSW is like Victoria! Spend a day in Albury, and you will find no shortage of oval footy grounds! In fact, they may as well unite Albury and Wodonga and push the Victorian border north of the Murray.

You may ask: what, do all this simply on the strength of football? And I would reply - hell, yes!

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on January 31, 2007 9:43 AM

FTA coverage. It's true that all live coverag of the EPL is on Sky, but there is still a 'match of the day' programme of 1 hour of highlights on FTA each week.

Sydney crowds. Does anyone have any figures on the first few years of the Swans home attendance at the SCG? I seem to recall they struggled for some years for consistent attendance, esp when they weren't winning. All in all I think Sydney are doing OK with crowds, establishing a good base of consistent support, although I must agree last Friday's crowd figure on a beautiful night was disappointing.

Posted by: eddie reynolds on January 31, 2007 10:02 AM

Posted by: Vicentin at January 30, 2007 10:53 PM

"..everyone has their biggest crowds against Sydney - so we're propping up the numbers one way or another."

Yeah, but that's all 'local' supporters wanting to come along a 'kick SFC'. If it were because of large numbers of SFC supporters turning up then you'd have a sustainable argument (similar to Collingwood in the AFL), but here, it is all single team towns and stuff all travelling SFC supporters. So - the idea of beating Sydney is what's propping the competition up - not SFC itself or it's supporters (if that makes sense).

Posted by: juanpabloangel at January 31, 2007 6:03 AM

-- what is the rush --

have you seen the facilities both tangible and human within the football departments at West Coast, the Crows, Collingwood at the Lexus centre. Even Pippu's Bulldogs are getting the Whitten Oval upgraded with Federal Govt funds and my North Melb are getting Arden St upgraded. So - for Melb FC - the founding club that dates back to 1858 and so one of the 10 oldest football clubs of any code (and continuously operating other than a small period during WW1) - to be forced to wait even an extra year on a project that has signed off on - and to be forced to continue in attrocious facilities at the Junction Oval whilst having their Admin offices located back at the MCG - that's just really bad and they can't be blamed for being impatient and wanting Victory to get their rrr's into gear - especially given that everyone seems happy with TD for the big games.
There was a little comment on the ABC this morning inferring that this new venue is the one the media (with their vested interests) have told the Govt they should build - just in case.

Although Vic et al will be happy that on SEN there was comment made about how Melb has the 'G, TD and a gap below and re. the Square cornered venues.

Football fans, be patient, we can not expect the sport to grow overnight, there is nothing to worry about, the future of the the game is a virtual given.

18% growth in attendance in 1 year!!! that sort of growth does not exist unless you set up a drug ring! This sort of growth is certainly not sustainable in the long term but there are many years of growth to come as yet. It is also the sports greatest strength, it can actually grow, is has somewhere to go.

Massive numbers of childred playing the game, the future players, fans, and coaches, being born as we speak, playing the game in primary school and high school, having the chance to follow the football teams such as SFC as a kid, growing up with it, for me it was the fitzroy lions I grew up with and still have the fondest of memories. Something most of us have not beeen able to do, rather having to adopt the a-league teams because its only 2 years old!! The kids of today will grow up with the teams, not to mention the international aspects of ACL, Asian Cup, WC, Friendlies ect...

You and I and anyone else who is old enough to formulate and oppinion and express it on this blog are nothing more than leaves that have dropped from the tree and blown away in the wind in our various (sporting) directions, we are not the future.

So football fans, be realistic in your expectations, relax, take it easy, enjoy the ride, we have a lot to look forward to.

Posted by: fred on January 31, 2007 10:40 AM

Re the old NSL Fans not coming out to watch A-League games.

I dont know if its an inter-state thing, but in Adelaide most of AU fans are either old Adelaide City or West Adelaide fans. I myself am an ex Adelaide City fan - I never really supported them in the SA Local league, as my team is the Adelaide Blue Eagles, formerly know as Azzuri.

However, its probably a different boat for AU, as they had started in the last NSL year as did Perth.

Posted by: cheech on January 31, 2007 10:52 AM

Posted by: EDWARD JAY at January 30, 2007 5:09 PM

You read the Sweeney report EJ thats a start.

The next step is to start bragging
about football in the pub to your mates and attending a Sydney FC game so I dont have to come on the Flog and complain about how pathetic the crowds are in comparison with other cities and their populations.

If you have done that and have become a regular Sydney FC supporter I apoligise, but if you
haven't I'll wait till you tell me you have attended Sydney FC matches( if your the big football fan you claim as per your resume of football involvment)to take you seriously as someone who cares about the sport in Sydney and not just another knocker.

As for other Sydneysiders its time to move on and stop saying " we would have died for a 21,000 crowd in the NSL".

This is not the NSL its the A-League and the attendances and comparisons are being set by other cities such as Melbourne (supposedly WIAP Central according to Sydneysiders) and to a lesser extent QLD Roar(Hicksville Central according to Sydneysiders).

Next season Bananarama country will have bigger crowds than the supposed football capital of Australia unless you pull your finger out and admit you can do better and get rid of the excuses/reasons.

As far as football and this Banana boy is concerned if we(Roar) get bigger average crowds again than Sydney then Hicksville moves South big time.

Posted by: Vic on January 31, 2007 11:01 AM

Scouser FC at January 31, 2007 10:31 AM

Given the likelihood that we will be missing a few (probably more than a few) - that Danish squad is looking seriously strong!

The interesting aspect for me is that there are 4 Danish players from FC Copenhagen, and another two from other Danish clubs - I wonder how any of these six compare with a) our European based Socceroos, and b) the best in our A-League. I'm just curious from the perspective that the Danish League would be one of the smaller European leagues. Of course their better clubs would still have the benefit of European competition, but I wonder how far advanced their league is in terms of quality compared to the A-League.

Cheech
If AU is to host a grand final in front of 15,000 ferals - it would be the worst possible publicity for the A-League!!

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on January 31, 2007 11:03 AM

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo at January 31, 2007 9:43 AM

Funny you suggest to push the border north.

I've long thought that the old colonial era lines are seriously outmoded. Having studied Geography and Geology, one realised how crazy a 'political' map really can be - especially regarding certain policy areas - included water/catchment/river management etc.

Anyway, I used to work for Aust Post and seeing how various near border locations were 'annexed' by neighbouring states, such as the north bank of the Murray into Victoria, Mt Gambier as well, whilst Broken Hill was 'annexed' into Sth Aussie. Although, I do feel perhaps Vic should give up Mildura to Sth Aussie.

So, I look forward to the Vic border running just north of Wagga and the ACT straddling the Vic/NSW border - the Saphire coast becoming a part of Victoria - basically all those assets built on the back of Victorian funds pre pokies in Victoria - when everyone travelled just over the border to Barooga, Moama, Merimbula etc.

Then finally Vic can focus more on the Hume, whilst Sydney/NSW keeps trying to get the Pacific Hwy under control. Might even see the Barton Hwy upgraded to near the standard of the Federal Hwy!!!!

Posted by: eddie reynolds at January 31, 2007 10:02 AM

Certainly the Swans struggled early on, well, the 1st 15 yrs other than the Edelsten era which I gather was on shakey foundations anyway.
However, the absolute comparison fails by means of the huge sub strata of soccer in Sydney compared to Aust Rules.

Surely you don't put SFC on an equal pedastal with the Swans - Aust Rules is regarded as a foreign game because it evolved in a different state - it is therefore more evil than an actual foreign game from overseas!!!

Posted by: Michael C on January 31, 2007 11:03 AM

Ben:

Was my response to Redb censored?

I thought it was appropriate and admirable that I'd make such a confession to him on this FLOG.

I am the champion on censorship on the FLOG, not fair that I be censored.

Like Pippu, I was dying to re-read my post and crack myself up.

Ben Willing: I chuckled myself, but I had to draw the line somewhere - to avoid a slanging match.

Posted by: Jed Petersen on January 31, 2007 11:03 AM

Michael C at January 31, 2007 10:24 AM

"..everyone has their biggest crowds against Sydney - so we're propping up the numbers one way or another."

aw, come on Michael C, if you couldn't read that as humour ...as I've previously stated I don't like getting into this slagging off of other states etc but don't you think it is a bit sad that extra people come along to games to give Sydney a kick? Also particularly for the Newcastle and Central Coast (and Melbourne) games Sydney has had decent away support - well done Cove and others. Remember we're talking about a truely nation-wide (and beyond - NZ) competition so it is unreasonable to expect too many to be going to away games - "tyranny of distance" anyone? It's not like going across town to Footscray or wherever is it. A home game for a lot of Sydney fans is the equivalent in terms of distance/time to an away game for many Victorian AFL games.

Pippu. Southern NSW ... just having a bit of fun. I'd agree about Albury and other large regional centres but less so about Goulbourn (sp?) which isn't "that" south. Years ago you used to start thinking you were very getting more Victorian as the beers on tap took on a distinctly more southern flavour ... sadly the regional differences are weaker now. Wagga of course has long been an AFL breeding ground too hasn't it?

My final note on Sydney's crowds. Yes they should be better, but I believe a combination of poor "product" earlier in year (coach/playing style)and poor promotion by the club and the fact that SFS is a long way from the "heartland" of Sydney football - further west, are mitigating factors. Bottom line is they should be trying harder.

Finally, it irks me when it is said that "Sydney likes a winner" ... well, when I start reading that most people prefer losers then I might think that statement means something. Is Sydney special in this regards? I do think that Sydney likes to be entertained... and I'm not talking about Swanettes type entertainment, but good quality football. In defence of a lot of those people who've stayed away - FC havent' made a compelling argument for them to attend for most of the season. But I agree with Robbos and the Cove article in the Terror - at this stage you need to at least attend and support the league to make it stronger.

Posted by: Vicentin on January 31, 2007 11:12 AM

Jed
You have my sympathies - for one to be thwarted from reading one's own brilliant post is most surely a fate worse than death.

Speaking of philosophy - Fred's getting a bit philosophical! Mate - we don't live in Magna Graecia any more! (it is interesting that quite a few descendants of Magna Graecia are actually on this blog - I wonder why that is - we gladly accept Vicentin as one or our brethren, more for his oratory prowess and reasoning faculties than his genealogy which no doubt would have germanic and gallic strands)

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on January 31, 2007 11:21 AM

Posted by: fred at January 31, 2007 10:40 AM

Just wonder how many games of anything can be on real turf in outdoor venues in the future.....
esp. if Sydney does have 7 degree warmer summers - sure as h$ll the A-League will no longer be a summer sport - well, it'll just be the wet season and dry season by then anyway - do you want your soccer monsoonal??

Posted by: Michael C on January 31, 2007 11:22 AM

Posted by: Vicentin at January 31, 2007 11:12 AM

I did assume a bit of tongue in cheek - I just couldn't resist putting together some phrase such as 'kick Sydney' (hmmmm, 'sink Sydney', 'bottom of the harbour', 'dredging for talent' - - - ah but 'reigning premiers' after all), remember, in AFL the Croweaters always wanted to 'kick-a-Vic' (you can use that one if you like!!).

On Wagga - traditionally be a fine town - producing Laurie Daly, Mark Taylor, Wayne Carey and Paul Kelly - most of whome played each of all sports as juniors and were then freely able to follow the path that most suited themselves - what a glorious sporting blue print that was. Dunno about now - times have changed on all fronts.

Ben Willing: I might steal that "dredging the harbour" bit for a future headline ;)

Posted by: Michael C on January 31, 2007 11:29 AM

Pippu,

I could swear i threw in a few facts in there..now i have to take off my white sheet and get back to work!

Posted by: Fred on January 31, 2007 11:31 AM

That Denmark ssquad has a lot of depth indeed.

Schwarzer missed Boro's game last night due to a back injury so it looks more and more like Petkovic will get his 15 mins of fame on the 7th.

Does anyone else think it is really unethical that Sydney can sign and hire new players before a semi-final game? I think it stinks.
Sydney using it's money to influence an outcome again.

Posted by: DazzaJapan on January 31, 2007 11:37 AM

Posted by: fred at January 31, 2007 10:40 AM

Right said Fred. Post of the week.

Can't believe all the doomsday scenarios and finger pointing happening in the second season of the league.

In Sydney, the season has been tumultuous, on & off the field. The Sydney media did their level best to beat up it's own.

Losing Yorke killed the upward momentum in attendances the club had been enjoying up until his departure.

It was all downhill from there and there was no way known the Club was able to stem the tide with an inadequate Marketing and Advertising budget. (It cost alot to `play' in the Sydney market)

TB has been a target of the football media from Day 1 and was lambasted from within the squad. Look how he's had to change his style to adjust to the team culture.

At Management level the club resembles a transit lounge, with everyone leaving acrimoniously.

The financial losses of Season 1 compounded the public impression of incompetence.

Momentum is everything in sport. In this regard Sydney was a shot duck from the get-go and have done remarkably well to be in contention
at this point of the season.

I don't care what anyone says, Sydney is the most competitve sports market in the country. Melbourne a one sport town. I suspect the people there have been silently begging from some variety outside the AFL.

In Marketing terms, Sydney is `noisy'. That is there are so many competing sporting interests it is difficult to be `heard'. And with no $$$ to make yourself heard, it's a tough gig.

Now that the club appears settled again, I think you can all look for a much improved off-field performance from SFC in 2007/08.

Ps. This is not meant to detract from the wonderful strides most other clubs have made off the field. The A-league is going place. Of that I am convinced

Posted by: Anonymous on January 31, 2007 11:38 AM

Posted by: fred at January 31, 2007 10:40 AM

Right said Fred. Post of the week.

Can't believe all the doomsday scenarios and finger pointing happening in the second season of the league.

In Sydney, the season has been tumultuous, on & off the field. The Sydney media did their level best to beat up it's own.

Losing Yorke killed the upward momentum in attendances the club had been enjoying up until his departure.

It was all downhill from there and there was no way known the Club was able to stem the tide with an inadequate Marketing and Advertising budget. (It cost alot to `play' in the Sydney market)

TB has been a target of the football media from Day 1 and was lambasted from within the squad. Look how he's had to change his style to adjust to the team culture.

At Management level the club resembles a transit lounge, with everyone leaving acrimoniously.

The financial losses of Season 1 compounded the public impression of incompetence.

Momentum is everything in sport. In this regard Sydney was a shot duck from the get-go and have done remarkably well to be in contention
at this point of the season.

I don't care what anyone says, Sydney is the most competitve sports market in the country. Melbourne a one sport town. I suspect the people there have been silently begging from some variety outside the AFL.

In Marketing terms, Sydney is `noisy'. That is there are so many competing sporting interests it is difficult to be `heard'. And with no $$$ to make yourself heard, it's a tough gig.

Now that the club appears settled again, I think you can all look for a much improved off-field performance from SFC in 2007/08.

Ps. This is not meant to detract from the wonderful strides most other clubs have made off the field. The A-league is going place. Of that I am convinced

Posted by: Glebeboy on January 31, 2007 11:38 AM

fred at January 31, 2007 10:40 AM

Excellent post and really puts all this in perspective. It is important we get it right though so that we do have something to hand on to all those kids who will be the future of our game in this country. And, I guess that's why we all care about it enough ... to not get any paid work done.

piu tardi...

Posted by: Vicentin on January 31, 2007 11:45 AM

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo at January 31, 2007 11:03

Although I wounld like it played there, if the Final came to Adelaide, it will be at AAMI in front of 55,000 - more than TD could get you would have to agree. And yes, I do think it can get filled..

Posted by: cheech on January 31, 2007 11:49 AM

DazzaJapan at January 31, 2007 11:37 AM

Salary cap? Same money as everyone else? If it is in the rules I can't see why they can't. Now if only they could free up Zdrilla's salary .... you still here David? ;0)

Posted by: Vicentin on January 31, 2007 12:00 PM

With the normal season crowds up 18% whats the feeling regard the final series crowds a similar percentage increase or not.
Here are last years finals crowds and attendances so far this year for the corresponding rounds:-

Last year This year

Minor SF

NJ vs CC 10236 SFC vs New 21112

Major SF

AU vs SFC 15104 AU vs MV 15575

Minor SF

CC vs NJ 17249 NJ vs SFC ?

Major SF

SFC vs AU 30377 MV vs AU ?

Prem Final

AU vs CC 11405 ?

Grand Final

SFC vs CCM 41689 ?

Total 126060

36687 people have attended the two final matches this season.
If we conservatively add 22000 for the match on friday at EAS and 40000 for the match on Sunday at TD that would give an attendance to that point of 98687.

Therefore to increase last years finals attendance record on these figures we would need only 27374 more people through the gate and we would still have the Prelimanary final and the Grand Final to go.

Theres no doubt we will beat last years figure by how much depends on whether MV or AU hold the preliminary final and whether MV or AU hold the grand final and who plays them in the preliminary or grand final.

Plenty of speculation there re the final figures ,which will be reduced by a fair bit if AU hold either the preliminary or Grand Final at Hindmarsh.

Posted by: Vic on January 31, 2007 12:26 PM

Posted by: Vicentin at January 31, 2007 12:00 PM

Its in the rules Vicentin

Sydney have just been fined for breaking the Rules they would not be dumb enough to do it again so soon.

Posted by: Vic on January 31, 2007 12:35 PM

Posted by: DazzaJapan at January 31, 2007 11:37 AM

Funny you say that - in my world, you establish your squad at the start of the year and make the best of it (keep mindful that my world did in the old days have open season trading up to a June cut off).

So for me - even just the short term Carbone style signings have always seemed to be putting 'publicity' first and ethics of a 'closed competition' and the concept of team balance etc out the door.
The concept of signing players after the half way mark of a season seems amazing to me, let alone as your enter the finals.

Somethings make the clubs of this particular world less like a club and too much like just a franchise.

Pippu will know where I'm coming from.

Posted by: Michael C on January 31, 2007 12:43 PM

Vic.
I call it constructive critisism.
I'm not knocking SydneyFC,they'll struggle to get decent crowds because their Sydney. SFC have to start promotional days,ladies day ect.I mentioned the other day how the NRL let every junior into every NRL game for free,this Vic was not advertising for my beloved Bulldogs.Soccer has around 250K juniors,RL 30K,AFL 20K,RU 12K.
SFC should allow every member of the NSW SF under 12 free addmision when accompanied by an adult.They don't pay to get in but their got to eat & drink,& they drag adults along who generally would'nt go to a soccer game.Do it once a year, or I'd like to see it for at every game for at least two seasons to try and build a culture of support.
Wollongong is going to be the same as Sydney for support,so if you don't want it,you better let Nth Qld & the Gold Coast in.
As for me going to see a SFC game,its 3 hrs on a good run,I'll do a deal though,if SFC play a pre-season trial at WIN,I'll take my 20 month old son with me(2.5 by then).

Posted by: EDWARD JAY on January 31, 2007 12:56 PM

Posted by: at January 31, 2007 11:38 AM

"I don't care what anyone says, Sydney is the most competitve sports market in the country. Melbourne a one sport town. I suspect the people there have been silently begging from some variety outside the AFL."

"The i don't care what anyone says" actually says it all. Only one sport in Melbourne, what? geez I thought there was a reasonable horse racing event, the cricket, a wee tennis comp and some motor racing, basketball,etc. Seems to have some other sporting interest in Melb town there?

Oh you mean football codes. Well we've had soccer (NSL) and a rugby union comp that has been going for 100 years. The issue has not been variety from AFl, it is the asbsolute dominance of the sport when compared to the others as it is such a good sport to play and watch , especially live at the ground. But then you don't care what anyone has to say. :-)

Soccer the main discussion on this flog though has always had support in Melbourne. Just needed the right marketing and structure and whalaaaghhh! (sic) Melb Victory get 50K to a match.

Couldn't resist.

Cheers
Redb

Posted by: Redb on January 31, 2007 1:00 PM

" ... it irks me when it is said that "Sydney likes a winner" ... "
Posted by: Vicentin at January 31, 2007 11:12 AM

Agree 100%. I too hate hearing that. It used to be said about the Swans for the first 15 years they were in Sydney - and I used to think - hang on, we all want out teams to win - what's so special about the Swans in that respect!

The truth is, the A-League's success cannot merely rely on clubs being "winners" on the field - the mathematics simply do not add up! The drivers for club support must, by virtue of that fact, be many and varied. As I said, the Vics had sold 11,000 memberships before the start of the season - so they had already hit on a formula that wasn't relying on onfield success (but now that they have it - you can bet their supporter base will be consolidated). In Melbourne's case, and someone above and others have hinted this before, it has a lot to do with watching football during the Summer and being culturally attuned to buying memberships. But even when we factor in that effect - Melbourne's crowds are still phenomenal - even by world standards.

Each club has to find a way to attract and retain supporters that is not solely dependent on winning - there is no other way - if your strategic planning for growth is relies significantly on on-field success - then the plan is flawed from the start.

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on January 31, 2007 1:12 PM

Posted by: EDWARD JAY at January 31, 2007 12:56 PM

got to eat & drink

that reminds me - the key factor in the Melb stadium issue might be catering. Apparently at the new venue when built, the tenants will have a share of the catering and I presume the break even point on attendance will be lower than TD.

Good old Spotless catering have done quite well thankyou very much on the back of exorbitant prices at our loved venues.

Posted by: Michael C on January 31, 2007 1:16 PM

Stumbled on this interesting news item on the forthcoming game at Newcastle, and I quote:

" Soc: Sydney FC aiming to outflank the Jets
Soccer AL SydFC
By Tom Wald
SYDNEY, Jan 31 AAP - Sydney FC believes it has found a major
chink in Newcastle's armour and will look to exploit the Jets out
wide in Friday's A-League minor semi-final return leg at
EnergyAustralia Stadium.

Newcastle must win the clash to progress to the preliminary final and the Sydneysiders feel capable of countering any ambitious
attacking raids.

'They play a similar style to us, probably the only thing is
that their wingers don't do as much defending as ours,' Sydney FC
forward Alex Brosque said.

'Ours work a lot harder and that could be their downfall where
we will try to exploit them down the wings, their wingers don't
drop back.

'That gives a lot of space for (David) Carney and (Robbie)
Middleby and even our right and left backs to push up, that could
be the main thing where we have it over them at the moment.' "

Good observations there - except I would say - yes, SFC wingers do get back and defend (I said recently no one else's get back as quickly as SFC) - but if anyone thinks that Carney and Middleby are gonna have as a priority of exploiting space, think again, they're gonna get back, and they're gonna stay there - unless they have to rethink things if Jets score a goal.

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on January 31, 2007 1:23 PM

In SMH's sister paper today, there are almost 3 pages dedicated to soccer - the bulk of it an expose on Beckham. There's a nice article on Josh Kennedy (as it happens, a Wodonga boy) - it looks like he is almost fit enough to turn out with Nuremberg - will he be ready to play by Feb 6 if we keep losing socceroos?

There is also an article about SFC chasing up CCM's dumped captain to play finals for them. I have to agree wtih Michael C here - the idea of recruiting players just to play finals goes against the grain for me. Are we playing the team we've played against all season - or a completely different team that is beefed up specifcally for the finals?

pippu d'angelo

Ben Willing: The rumour going around today is that Salley (NZ Knights), not Spencer, will join Sydney. I agree - it's not quite right that a club should poach during the finals - BUT players switch clubs - mid-season - all over the world.

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on January 31, 2007 1:52 PM

Well I think that was a soft yellow card Ben.

~~~

Interesting are the reports that the Jets are looking to sign a marquee player from Eastern Europe. Whilst not denying that there have been numerous top players from that part of the world the relative obscurity of the region to Australia leads me to believe that they already have a player in mind.

When they sat marquee, I hope they don't mean dinosaur...this was the club that tried to bring in Stan Collymore last year.

Posted by: Jed Petersen on January 31, 2007 1:59 PM

Posted by: EDWARD JAY at January 31, 2007 12:56 PM

Well those ideas are a good start at least with some ideas to get more Sydneysiders to support their team.

The Roars interaction with Local Juniors is excellent with several different teams playing small sided games before each match and at half time and the teams are never the same each fixture.
As you say they drag along their parents with them and the demographics of the crowd when we had 32,000 for the game against Sydney was young and many families,which indicates to me that the Roars mini junior matches are starting to pay dividends.

With the massive numbers you have quoted for junior football in Sydney(as compared to numbers in Brisbane) if Sydney FC is not interacting with the 250,000 juniors it is criminal neglect from a football perspective.

Also the other week and to quote you "this is not racial but an observation" I noticed several rows of what looked like Somalian or Sudanese refugees attending the game which knowing how switched on the media and communications guy is at the Roar it would be by his doing.
Also Zuning Yhang did some promotional work in Brisbanes Chinatown when he first started and we had a number of Chinese students at our first few matches due to this.

Small things but they help to build up a rapport with the club in the community.

My impression is that Sydney FC have not done a great deal to either connect with their massive Junior base or the large football loving migrant/refugee base in the city and if that is the case as life is a two way street they wont improve their crowds unless they do so.

Having lived there I dont underestimate how difficult a market it is to sell an entity called Sydney but I also know there is a vast untapped football savvy market there.

I will concede this club will have to work a whole lot harder than other clubs to tap into this market but I will never accept that it cannot be done and those figures you just threw at me re Juniors(Although I knew they were high) just convince me more.

Posted by: Vic on January 31, 2007 2:05 PM

Having another big European club like AC Milan set up a football academy in Oz is not good for the A-League. The so called "exchange" of young football talent is a myth. The traffic is all one way to the European clubs, who are looking for a bargain or free talent, train them up for a few years and then hopefully sell them on the transfer market for a profit.

We already have over 200 Aussie footballers overseas. I know the European leagues pay better, but at 20 players per squad, that's the equivalent of over 10 A-League teams overseas. The Aussies could start their own European league or significantly add to the appeal of the A-League if they all came back.

Imagine if they took the 200 best players out of the AFL or the NRL comps, would it have an impact? Would it affect the crowds?

Posted by: jimboinho on January 31, 2007 2:08 PM

I thought the report of SFC trying to sign Noel Spencer for Fridays game (SMH) would have made the flog earlier.

Posted by: EDWARD JAY on January 31, 2007 2:15 PM

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo at January 31, 2007 1:52 PM

I'd rather them snapping up A-League players from other teams than bringing up more underdone players from the respective state teams.

If a player is released or off contract and without no transfer deadline in place its well within the rules as they are today. This is certain to change once squads are larger or each club has a youth team playing in a youth league.

Further, FC are on their was to Asia, alone with Adelaide shortly, they CANNOT afford to go with the squad they have given all the injuries...I recall they have to announce their AFC squad by 10 Feb 07 so there is little time to look to far abroad for player. That Salley look good (on the pitch I mean) it'd be good to see him in the finals and possibly Asia.

Posted by: Jed Petersen on January 31, 2007 2:17 PM

Ben Willing: The rumour going around today is that Salley (NZ Knights), not Spencer, will join Sydney. I agree - it's not quite right that a club should poach during the finals - BUT players switch clubs - mid-season - all over the world

Well we need someone! I can't even think of a game this season when weren't down atleast one player due to injury, suspension or international duty.

Thats one thing I want to see at SFC next season, new singings with a long term futures at the club. Enough with the marque's and short term singings, and all the other bandaid fixes.

Posted by: Scouser FC on January 31, 2007 2:19 PM

"Thats one thing I want to see at SFC next season, new singings with a long term futures at the club. Enough with the marque's and short term singings, and all the other bandaid fixes."

Posted by: Scouser FC at January 31, 2007 2:19 PM

I have beating that drum for months...glad to finally have an ally.

I don't thing a series of marquee signings in the answer to FC's woes. But have a solid and consistent squad will go along way to winning back the fans. Last year FC had the Sydney swagger about them, thats why the fans loved them.

Posted by: Jed Petersen on January 31, 2007 2:50 PM

Posted by: Jed Petersen at January 31, 2007 1:59 PM

There were rumours this side of the Hawkesbury that a "prominent Australian businessman" (Singo) was trying to bring Andy Cole over to the A-league

Posted by: djebella on January 31, 2007 2:56 PM

Jed & Scouser

Agree that SFC has had rotten luck with injuries this year, and have done extremely well to more than hang on in there (they remain a huge threat to the Vics while they are alive).

Agree that you can't have a situation where a team has nothing but one fit reserve goalkeeper on the bench (as nearly happened at one stage during the season), and the answer is most certainly an expansion of lists that includes a fair sprinkling of under 21 players (who are off salary cap).

Agree that the two relevant teams need to bolster their lists for the start of the Asian League - afterall, it's a different comp - no problems there.

I still find it hard to accept that the bolstering of a list can occur mid way through a finals series - and yes, this is a WIAP perspective - but it is simply an anathema to us. Surely the rules could be fine tuned to enable everything we are agreeing on, while ensuring that once you enter the finals, you are stuck with what you have. Let us also not forget that SFC purposely entered the season with a reduced list (for salary cap reasons I presume). So in one small respect, they have contributed to their woes.

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on January 31, 2007 3:07 PM

I agree...Sydney's sudden poaching of players is typical of their mercenary approach and there should be a rule introduced so that such behaviour can only occur up to a certain date before the finals.It stinks.

on a lighter note..good to hear bout Kennedy! Spiranovic came on for Nurnberg in the 90th min last night...but now it seems Beauchamp is injured too!! that makes 10 players who are injured or unfit in our squad.At least Arnold admitted that today.

Posted by: DazzaJapan on January 31, 2007 3:17 PM

Posted by: jimboinho at January 31, 2007 2:08 PM

Couldn't agree more .
These big European clubs dont do anything as you say for free.

Whilst its a World market for football we dont do ourselves any favours by letting these clubs have first pick on our young players.

But the most important part of not letting these big clubs in is that if we want the A-League to expand we need our best young players to be developed here at an A-League club and the sooner we sort this out the better.
I for one have had enough of our best young talent disappearing overseas before there out of nappies because we haven't got the development programs in place for them here.
Whilst its probably impossible to stop it entirely the Brett Emerton example should become the norm not the exception.

Posted by: Vic on January 31, 2007 3:19 PM

Vic at January 31, 2007 12:35 PM

Yeah, I thought it must be in the rules and that Sydney wouldn't be that dumb. I was solely querying Dazza's comment, wasn't questioning Sydney doing it at all. Guess it wasn't too well written - apologies for any ambiguity.

Posted by: Vicentin on January 31, 2007 3:19 PM

Posted by: jimboinho at January 31, 2007 2:08 PM

"We already have over 200 Aussie footballers overseas. I know the European leagues pay better, but at 20 players per squad, that's the equivalent of over 10 A-League teams overseas. The Aussies could start their own European league or significantly add to the appeal of the A-League if they all came back.

Imagine if they took the 200 best players out of the AFL or the NRL comps, would it have an impact? Would it affect the crowds?"

BTW in rugby union's Super 14 this has sort of happened with the best Kiwi players out for 8 weeks or so. Will be interesting to see what happens to NZ crowds? Might be a boost though for the struggling OZ teams with the Western force likely to benefit from weaker overall competition.

I guess this also adds to thre so-called soccer snobs comments made earlier, in that the best players and comps are overseas so why support the local game. The grass is greener, its human nature. For AFl and NRL the best players are here and whilst if either was played at World level there would be a higher standard, you don't know any better. No problems with da grass.

May take a few years to get the dollars in the A League, but the marquee player is the right way to go. If you could afford a single world class star player and pay them the millions they require, each club could have a superstar and provide an enormous drawcard. Sounds a bit thin in the long term though, having just one stand out player.

In AFL, Garry Ablett who played with Geelong would atract big crowds from either team's supporters just to see him play. His nickname: God!

cheers
Redb

cheers
Redb

Posted by: Redb on January 31, 2007 3:19 PM

"Last year FC had the Sydney swagger about them, thats why the fans loved them."

Well described Jed about what Sydney need.

The Sydney swagger is as good as any description that I have seen and confirms what I feel this team should be, because like or dislike it thats the perception that the rest of Australia has about Sydney brash arrogant indeed a bunch of wankers,but it doesn't matter thats why other cities fans turn up in droves to see them and is perhaps why this year that its own fans have not, you lost the swagger.

Get it back

Sydney without a swagger is like Liam Gallagher with a wooden leg, more of a clump clump.

Posted by: Vic on January 31, 2007 3:31 PM

Posted by: djebella at January 31, 2007 2:56 PM

I spose if he can get Paris Hilton over he can get anyone...

Posted by: Jed Petersen on January 31, 2007 3:32 PM

I would say Sydney likes the underdog rather than winners.

Those junior numbers would be pretty close to the mark,
Ben could maybe find last seasons offical list.But with 250k juniors accross the state(to share with NJ & CCM) it makes SFC look so much worse,& can anyone mention any work they have done with their 250,000 juniors.I know your going to hate me mentioning the NRL,but I rekon around 80% of kids accross Qld.want to play for the Bronco's,SFC should aim to relate to their juniors,off memory,I don't think they have a junior link/promotion on their web site.

Posted by: EDWARD JAY on January 31, 2007 3:35 PM

"Surely the rules could be fine tuned to enable everything we are agreeing on, while ensuring that once you enter the finals, you are stuck with what you have."

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo at January 31, 2007 3:07 PM

Yes. But in good time when its more practical. In these early teething years, were playing rosters are small, it would be dangerous to lock in teams who have had horror runs with injuries and the like. Granted FC had fiscal problems which caused a need to trim down anyway, but the FFA surely don't want a A-League team coming into the play-offs with an empty bench (or goalie in the outfield). Thats too big a black eye to risk.

Moral of the story, no its not ideal, but the alternative is worse.

~~~~

"Sydney brash arrogant indeed a bunch of wankers"

Posted by: Vic at January 31, 2007 3:31 PM

...and you forgot..."don't give a stuff". That goes with the territory.

As I eluded to before...there is a certain destiny about Sydney FC which means they can never be ruled out...its good that other cities and their teams envy Sydney, thats what makes Sydney what it is.

Posted by: Jed Petersen on January 31, 2007 4:04 PM

Posted by: EDWARD JAY at January 31, 2007 3:35 PM

You have a very good point there one of the reasons the mariners have connected so well with the region is that each of the players was assigned to a junior club to act as a kind of mentor and attend presentations and the like. Of course the central coast is unique in the one to one relationship between the number junior clubs and CCM players.

Posted by: djebella on January 31, 2007 4:10 PM

"hate me mentioning the NRL"

Not hate EJ but become seriously annoyed with your constant references to NRL on an Association football blog

If you continue inserting NRL into every post I for one will self censor you in the same way I did with the Aussie Rules people and regard you as another intruder who is trying to distract genuine football fans from discussing the game.

Your constructive argument garbage is just another cover to disguise the fact that you really want to discuss NRL.You love the Bulldogs thats fine, but there are blogs for it elsewhere to push their propoganda.

From years of practice I can smell a non football infiltrator a mile away and you are suspiciously starting to smell like one.

Pull your head in re NRL EJ your no better than the Aussie Rules people who come on here and if Sydney football people are serious about the game they should give this guy a serve the same as they do with AFL people.

Posted by: Vic on January 31, 2007 4:16 PM

Posted by: Vic at January 31, 2007 4:16 PM

"Pull your head in re NRL EJ your no better than the Aussie Rules people who come on here and if Sydney football people are serious about the game they should give this guy a serve the same as they do with AFL people."

Your attitude is totally wrong! It is people with other backgrounds and views that help make this blog more interesting. The number of posts and growth of this blog has been assisted by those people. If Ben Willing deems it, he can delete every post that mentions other football codes. My bet is he won't!

cheers
Redb

p.s. What you don't understand is that you and others (including most soccer scribes) constantly compare to the other football codes in this country, why is it therefore not understandable that supporters of other football codes will come on here and make comment. Fortunately your view is in the minority and if you don't reply to this post i can assure I will not lose a nano-second of sleep. :-)

Posted by: Redb on January 31, 2007 4:35 PM

Not hate EJ but become seriously annoyed with your constant references to NRL on an Association football blog
Posted by: Vic at January 31, 2007 4:16 PM

I'm sure FFA & SFC look at the other codes(if they don't no wonder SFC can't average a better crowd).
Its all been done & tryed in Sydney,in sport history does repeat.All the facts & figures of successes & failures are well documented.If the one team cities are successfull or failures in any sport,in any Australian town or city, why not bring it to the attention of this sports supporters.Push bike racing drew 30k meetings in the early 1900's,motor racing around banked circuits (the most infamous at Marubra) was all standing room only.
I enjoy watching another code during the colder months,however,ealier this A-league season,I was tuning into the soccer over that rival code.

There you go I didn't mention it once.

Posted by: EDWARD JAY on January 31, 2007 4:56 PM

EJ - I woulda thought with 250K juniors, then you'd hope that within 10 years there'd never be a need to import foreign players - - - maybe just me, but I don't care to see a chinese import playing for MVFC for 2 yrs - now if he came to Aust and took out citizenship, then that's another story. (I would grant exception at the Marquee player level, and perhaps similar to English County cricket allow 1 or 2 OS players).

Can't develop many young players at senior level with only 8 teams if half the squads are b-grade foreigners. Really though, the sooner a decent youth league is structured the better - surely the A-League is just a pretty side-show - but it won't drive World Cup success, it'd surely be the youth development pre-ALeague that would be doing that, esp if that 2nd hand comment by TchDrctr is true (earlier entry by can't remember who).

As an aside, I find all these UK (accented) coaches annoying to listen to - it's like watching the Bill over and over - but then based on the back ground of several floggers, it'd be music to their ears and a fond memory of home.

Posted by: Michael C on January 31, 2007 5:04 PM

The difference between nsw & maybe the other states except for Qld.,is that the vast majority of those 250k juniors nsw soccer have,all follow an NRL team,& would proberly have trouble naming an A-league team never mind supporting one.

Posted by: EDWARD JAY on January 31, 2007 5:04 PM

Posted by: Redb at January 31, 2007 4:35 PM

Normally I dont bother with WIAP people but let me fill you on my perspective so you dont waste your precious nano seconds on preaching to me in future and save us both a lot of time.

Call it what you like this is as far as I am concerned the Flog.

It is about Association football.

The subject headings are all about Association football.

I come on here to discuss Association Football nothing else.

I wasn't born or brought up here so I have no inflated perception of Aussie Rules and RL is the Funny game they play in Wigan so its way down the pecking order as far as sports go in my mind.

I have as much interest in both as I have in Mongolian sheep brushing(although they say it can be wonderfully calming on a Flog such as this) and if Mongolian Sheep brushing was inserted into every post the same way WIAP people do and now EJNRL is doing I would be equally irate with the MSB person.

Believe it or not there are hundreds of millions of people like me in the world.

I will now hand you back to WIAP world and us football people can get on with discussing the wonderful world of Association Football.

Posted by: Vic on January 31, 2007 5:10 PM

E Jay

Welcome to the club! To be censored by the self appointed inquisitor of all that is good and pure in the world game, just because you happen to follow two or three football codes, should be accepted as a great badge of honour!!

Hell, even Vic's great mate, Jed, follows other codes, at least one of which has precious little to do with either the world game or the Australian codes - and he seems to get away with it - in other words, Jed has successfully circumvented the self-appointed inquisitor - time to appeal to a higher authority me thinks!!

I reiterate - welcome to the club! It is people like you and I that have made this blog the wonderful forum that is (well, in truth, 'tis mostly I).

The more we get up Vic's nose, the more he will be persuaded to start another blog for the purists - those who can sit through a dozen nil all draws without batting an eyelid - Tony Palumbo will be the first to sign up!!

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on January 31, 2007 5:13 PM

I'm sure FFA & SFC look at the other codes

Posted by: EDWARD JAY at January 31, 2007 4:56 PM

Well I hope they have a close look at the NRL so they can see how NOT to run a major sporting competition. (although today Gallop announced they are moving the finals back to the afternoon, finally some common sense).

Ernie Merrick talks about penalty shoot-out practice. How many of the floggers thing we'll see a penalty shoot-out this weekend?

There were none during last seasons finals, but I do have a vibe this season we'll see one. Love or hate them, they are apart of the game, and it would be interesting to see the a-league version. As Australians we've been through them during the 2005 WC qualifier and should be well acquainted well that lovely nervous feeling. As a LFC fan I sure have sat through a fair few of them (2005 CL final, 2006 FA cup final). I find the trick is to not sit down. It was my pacing around the room alone that got us into Germany.

Ben Willing: I think it's more likely there will be a penalty shoot-out after the Newcastle v Sydney match - and even then it's unlikely. I think Merrick is just foxing.

Posted by: Scouser FC on January 31, 2007 5:21 PM

" As I eluded to before...there is a certain destiny about Sydney FC which means they can never be ruled out... "
Posted by: Jed Petersen at January 31, 2007 4:04 PM

Jed
As you know, it is not like me to be a smart arse and act the educationalist (heaven forbid!), but I know you have broad shoulders and this one was simply too good to pass up - I am sure you could not have resisted either - but are you "eluding" the truth again!!

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Anonymous on January 31, 2007 5:24 PM

# Posted by: Michael C at January 31, 2007 5:04 PM

hear hear, argentina argentina argentina argentina lol

exp TB his a crack up

Posted by: Eddie on January 31, 2007 5:30 PM

Pippu d'Angelo at January 31, 2007 5:13 PM

See

Vicentin at January 30, 2007 10:53 PM

Pippu, you are "a wind-up merchant" aren't you?

To be honest, I've found Edward Jay's league references far less intrusive than all the WIAP stuff. He's stayed far more on topic than a lot of you guys - he hasn't talked about the game itself only administration and stuff we can learn about promoting football from a league perspective.

Have pity though, he not only follows that game but is unfortunate enough to follow "that team" ;0)

Vic's particularly fiery today too isn't he?

Posted by: Vicentin on January 31, 2007 5:32 PM

Vicentin
Vic is fiery today? What do you mean today? It is a permanent part of his make-up! He comes from a part of the world the gave new meaning to the word cranky! Indeed, the word itself comes from the Anglo-saxon crancstoef, which meant weaving implement. Given Vic's liking for Mongolian sheep brushing - it's all starting to make sense!!

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on January 31, 2007 5:46 PM

Posted by: juanpabloangel at January 31, 2007 6:03 AM

Thanks Juan. there is so much to love about our game. I understand how you feel about the NRL & AFL.
I have a friend who spent 5 years recently working in England & following his beloved Liverpool. He has been on the waiting list for the last 7 years for a Liverpool seasonal pass, he's been back in OZ for 3 years now. He struggles to follow any sport in Australia now apart from the A-League, previously a big Dragons supporter. I too was once a big Dragons supporter but it does lag way behind my feelings for the mighty Sydney FC.
The atmosphere last Friday night was great, 21,000 or more, who cares, though I agree it's pathetic for Sydney, but my family had so much fun, 2 great goals in the first half, the Cove was onfire & so was the Squadron & you can only admire the goal by Rodreiquez, nothing comparable in the other football codes.

Posted by: Robbos on January 31, 2007 6:21 PM

Last word for today.

I take it all back.

I am giving up the Flog to start an MSB blog.

I tried it after afternoon tea and its a wonderful experience.

Posted by: Vic on January 31, 2007 6:38 PM

Pippu d'Angelo at January 31, 2007 5:46 PM

I was going to say it was a nice "allusion" to Vic's previous post ... but it was really too direct. And really we've all been guilty of grammatical atrocities swept up in the and the race to post our lastest pithy contributions, go easy. Re-reading some of my posts I've wondered whether I'm the re-incarnation of a fruit shop owner with some of my apostrophe placements!

Back to Vic, I think we need to start mentioning Mongolian sheep in each of our posts to see how long he lasts.

Just kidding, come back Vic.

Posted by: Vicentin on January 31, 2007 7:05 PM

and what I meant to say was...

... we've all been guilty of grammatical atrocities swept up in the race to post our lastest pithy contributions ...

Ohhh the humanity

... maybe we should all take up MSB, that good Vic?

Posted by: Vicentin on January 31, 2007 7:27 PM

Posted by: Vicentin at January
"Pippu, you are "a wind-up merchant" aren't you? I like your bravura but really you are very selective with your facts and knowledge of previous arguments."

Be careful Vicentin, I onced mentioned that Pippu posted with an agenda (very selective facts to put across only his views) from his vast knowledge. He accused me of accusing him of having a SECRET AGENDA together with the WIAP gang.
But fortunately you are from the same cultral background as our "Galileo" of this blog & you may not suffer from his slings of arrow.

Now back to the football, I'm quite happy to have nil all draws & it seems only non.........

Posted by: Robbos on January 31, 2007 7:28 PM

Ben Willing: Jonas Salley has signed for Sydney FC on a short-term contract to replace Terry McFlynn. He is likely to be available for selection in the squad for this Friday's match against Newcastle.
Just in the nick of time too - because Topor-Stanley has been injured at the Olyroos camp in Adelaide.
I'd also like to point out that the entire New Zealand Knights squad is out of contract - after the NZK Licence was taken over by the FFA.

Posted by: Ben Willing on January 31, 2007 7:31 PM

Vicentin

Of course you're right - if I were to correct every single post on this blog - I'd be putting up three times as many posts as I do now! (of course, those who live in glass houses should not throw stones...)

I should explain that I was only tempted by Jed's juicy morsel, because a) well, it was Jed, but more importantly b) he once had accused me of being a liar (perhaps with good reason) and so it seemed an opportune time to achieve some closure from what was a harrowing experience on this blog at that time when all and sundry were gunning out for me.

Robbos - at least I know you're reading my posts!

Topor-Stanley injured - unbelievable! Even with Salley, the reserve goalie better be feeling fit and sure with his feet!

Scouser - I don't think you have a monopoly on pacing - I imagine 95% of us on this blog were pacing at the exact time that you were! (mind you, that shoot out was a pacer's delight - and I know all about pacing - my wife can't stand to be in the same house with me, let alone in the same room, when the bullies are on TV - she has to take the kids away so they don't witness their mild mannered pappa turn into Mr Hyde - was he the scary one?)

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on January 31, 2007 7:59 PM

I've been having a quick look through Bill Bryson's book "Down Under", because I had a vague recollection that in his travels he comes acroos a Yorkshireman, and I thought Bryson's description of their meeting might give us all an inkling into Vic's mysterious ways.

But alas, I ended up finding something even funnier, about how he once spent "three hours happily bewildered by an Australian Rules Football match and dined on [his]first (and last) four-and-twenty pie...". He says:

" ...what really sets Melbourne apart is love of Australian Rules Football, a sport little followed in Sydney or New South Wales, where rugby is the passion. It's interesting that Melburnians don't tell jokes about Sydney. They tell jokes about their beloved footy. To wit:

A man arriving for the Grand Final in Melbourne is surprised to find the seat beside his empty. Tickets to the Grand Final are sold out weeks in advance and empty seats unknown. So he says to the man on the other side of the seat: 'Excuse me, do yo know why there is no one in this seat?'

'It was my wife's,' answers the second man, a touch wistfully, 'but I'm afraid she died.'
'Oh, that's terrible. I'm sorry.'
'Yes, she never missed a match.'
'But couldn't you have given the ticket to a friend or relative?'
'Oh no. They're all at the funeral.'

I just love it - Melbourne & Melburnians - you're the absolute best - for those about to rock, I salute ya!

(note to the censors - please allow through - linkage with the Flog due to allusions to Sydney-Melbourne rivalry)

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on January 31, 2007 8:20 PM

The Clayton's WIAP World Cup

Well, I give up; where is it? I have been looking up and down the coast for a week know, and there is no sign of the Clayton's WIAP World Cup anywhere.

Is this all a myth or is someone just playing a sick joke on me? Or is it somewhere on display that I don't know about?

Some of my people tell me it is on tour, like when the FIFA world cup came to Australia, the ques were a mile long; everyone wanted to have their photo taken with it, and just like the Ashes Urn; some say there are two venues where they are sure it will be on display; one in Sydney at Luna Park and its sister Luna park in Melbourne.

Well that's good news; as I am going to Sydney next week for a few days and I'll drop in and have a look.

KB

Posted by: Koala Bear on January 31, 2007 8:29 PM

Melbourne Victory vs Adelaide

Its half time and I can see Melbourne going out in this one. Too arrogant for their own good.

The signs are there and I think Merrick is now a very worried man. Choosing to try and keep a clean sheet.

Now after having a very close look at them last week; the confidence is not there and they look like a second rate team that will not be able to handle the pressure or neither the Jets FC nor SFC.

I can't wait for the weekend it should be fantastic.

Posted by: Koala Bear on January 31, 2007 8:33 PM

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo at January 31, 2007 5:13 PM

For the record, I speak about anything if its within the context of Football. See my discussion yesterday with Mike C. I'll go off on a tangent about other "sports" when its for the purpose of drawing comparisons to Football. I am with VIc otherwise, ther is too much BS re AFL here which is irrelevant to ANYTHING for a new south welshmans perspective.

~~~

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: at January 31, 2007 5:24 PM

I haven't got a 140 IQ I an not sure what you mean...its and in joke isn't it?

~~~

The way FC are going insurance companies are going to refuse to cover their medical costs soon.

I think TB should pull on a jersey...has anybody heard about this young firebrand Jedinho? Might be worth a look at.

It could be like a real life version of the 12th man with Slater and Foster drafted into the FC squad for this weekend...no offence fellas.

Posted by: Jed Petersen on January 31, 2007 8:35 PM

being born in castleford, West Yorks myself I was getting prepared for a salvo about being dour and thrifty...LOL.Nowt wrong with Yorkshire folk. haha

Break a leg,Sydney FC!! (many legs.. your own,please! -especially Middleby) I will happily go on record as saying that I don't envy Sydney a single thing!!

Posted by: DazzaJapan on January 31, 2007 8:35 PM

Posted by: Robbos at January 31, 2007 7:28 PM

But fortunately you are from the same cultral background as our "Galileo" of this blog & you may not suffer from his slings of arrow.

Pippu, I read that too but I remember thinking at the time that I'd heard the joke told as an (English) football joke. A good one regardless of its origin.

Posted by: Vicentin on January 31, 2007 8:40 PM

Posted by: Ben Willing at January 31, 2007 7:31 PM

Good news about Jonas Salley. Do you know he's expected to stay for the AFC CL?

They should go after Alen Marcina, Malik Bauri and LeiLei Gao as well.

Ben Willing: It's quite likely if he fits in and performs well during this short term contract.

Posted by: Scouser FC on January 31, 2007 8:47 PM

Posted by: Vic at January 31, 2007 3:19 PM
jimboinho

I can't see any problem for an Inter Milan starting up a football academy in Australia. It can only be another avenue for young talent to develop and play for the Socceroos; if we make sure that this is not a poaching scheme and I am sure the FFA are going to keep a very close eye on this.

We need the very best mentors the world can provide and if it is Inter or AC Milan so be it.

I can't think of a better way to get our young kids up to speed than the very, very best clubs in he world teaching our kids the tricks.

With our Socceroo profile now it is hardly going to make these kids go to a country that they were not born in.

But there will be the odd one who is tempted of course, but I have faith in our lads to want to play for the Socceroos. Just like Vince Grella and Marco Bresciano. These are new uncharted waters we are going into and I think it is worth a look at before we condemn the scheme.

KB

Posted by: Koala Bear on January 31, 2007 9:12 PM

Posted by: Vicentin at January 31, 2007 8:40 PM

Vicentin,
I have ask; I have been wondering how do you italisize your text? I would like to know how it is done on this blog.

KB

Ben Willing: "em" inside the less/greater than symbols

Posted by: Koala Bear on January 31, 2007 9:42 PM

Koala Bear at January 31, 2007 9:42 PM

thanks Ben. I've actually been using "old school" html. Don't you need to close ie /em? This would make it easier than what I use ...

i inside the > (greater and less than) symbols at the beginning of the selected text and /i inside > at the end.

Ps. Ben, I've only bolded things on a couple of occasions as I know that is your thing....

Ben Willing: Yes you need to close it too. And yes try to keep bolding to a minimum thanks.

Posted by: Vicentin on January 31, 2007 10:07 PM

Ben Willing: Well - the rumours about Frank Farina leaving the Roar and that he's leaving to coach Sydney FC keep popping up: Farina situation 'to be resolved'.
There have been some strong rumours coming out of Queensland this evening that he will not re-sign with the Roar.
I guess we'll find out tomorrow???

Posted by: Ben Willing on January 31, 2007 10:20 PM

" I remember thinking at the time that I'd heard the joke told as an (English) football joke. A good one regardless of its origin. "

Posted by: Vicentin at January 31, 2007 8:40 PM

Vicentin

Funny you should say that - as I was writing that post, I had a feeling that I too had heard it in the same context. Let's be honest, it translates just as easily to something like the FA Cup.

But one bit that sounds Melburnian is the part about the wife never missing a game. The papers often run stories about couples that haven't missed a home game in 70 years, blah, blah. To be honest, and many may have an alternative view here, but I don't see that as being typical of soccer culture - rather, I see it as very much a male domain (certainly in Europe, South America and until recently, in Australia). Interestingly, with the Japenese and the South Koreans, I get the feeling that crowds have a larger female contingent. I'd love to hear from anyone who is able to confirm any of these thoughts (which I admit are off the top of my head and do not come from any real experience on my part, apart from games I have been to in Australia, but mostly over a decade ago).

Incidentally, your influence is already quite telling, you would be pleased to hear that I didn't buy the kids McDonanalds tonight. I had some home grown tomatoes handy, so we trundled off to the local supermarket to pick up some fresh basil - no bloody basil! Got home and I had to think quick and improvise (as we love to do in the kitchen) - turned out some penne tossed with black olives, crispy bacon and capers with a sprinkling of grated parmesan - not too bad! Kids hoed in (with promise of ice cream afterwards). I think I'm getting my mojo back! Thanks!!

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on January 31, 2007 10:52 PM

ben willing and co,

any news about whos gonna replace the injured in the aust vs denmark game?

and u guys know if fox is avaliable in china? as I will be overseas when the game is played unfortunately gotta do some deals with the manufacturers over there.

Posted by: Eddie on January 31, 2007 11:12 PM

# Posted by: Jed Petersen at January 31, 2007 8:35 PM

um u do know what sponsors bling has right? healthe? so even if the insurance companies wont cover, healthe will at least do an undercut against the major competitors like healthscope, ramsey.. blah blah blah... for all u old timers, out of all da hospitals i have been, worked at etc, over the last few years, prince of wales private is the best.... just incase you guys need to take someone there lol

Posted by: Eddie on January 31, 2007 11:23 PM

My 2 cents worth on Sydney crowds:

Sydney may have the highest interest in football, but a lot of it comes from ethnic groups or descendents of migrants. The A-League and Sydney FC have done a terrific job of marketing the team as a Sydney team and not linked to an ethnic background. This has brought in many new fans.

However, this has p!ssed off many ethnics, who put in a lot of good years supporting football in this country and they have snubbed the A-League in droves. They continue to support their ethnic based old NSL teams.

The State Premier League in Sydney is very healthy. They had nearly 10K at this year's Blacktown Demons v Sydney United grand final. Marconi also had a big turnout when Zola played as a guest player.

There is still a very large ethnic fan base that regularly go to a football match. The real job for Sydney FC and Matt Carroll and Ben Buckley, is to win over a large number of these guys to follow Sydney FC and not go on with their ethnic traditions. Not an easy task.
(Maybe the FFA don't want the ethnics to come anyway, if they cause trouble.)

The other thing is that Aussie stadium is right in the heart of Sydney, right next to the Harbour tunnel exit and right next to the main road to the airport. If you drive from Sydney's west, northwest or southwest, the traffic is horrendous. We live in Sydney's northwest and the last time we drove to a game at Aussie stadium, we got caught in the traffic and it took us two and a half hours to get to Aussie stadium. We got to our seats, just as the ref blew the whistle for half time.

A lot of the football supporters in Sydney live in the west, northwest or southwest, but moving the games to Parramatta Stadium or the Olympic Stadium will not immediately bring in the fans. There is a lot of work required in other areas first and then the stadium choice comes into play, although Parramatta and Olympic stadium are much easier to get to and better for public transport.
A second Sydney A-League team from the west or Wollongong is still a risk and could even reduce Sydney FC crowds at this stage.

Also, Sydney made a big financial loss in their first year and have a relatively small marketing and promotion budget this year. Sydney is an expensive city with many competing sports and attractions to go see, so not advertising your wares can be fatal.

Add to that all the negative crap about Dwight leaving, TB's style of play, injuries, suspensions etc etc, it hasn't been a great year PR wise. The Sydney scum press have been hammering them relentlessly and the media coverage of football in Sydney is still woeful.

If this is the worst it gets, then the Sydney FC board have done a pretty good job and it should only get better next year.
Sydney are still in this year's title race and then play with Asia's best in the Champions League. We're looking forward to it.

Posted by: jimboinho on January 31, 2007 11:33 PM

Eddie..the audio of the game will be webcast on ABC Newcastle mate..the expats amongst us will have to find the game somewhere on the net and obtain it illegally.Kearney and Dando are very entertaining though.By my accounts 11 of our players are either injured,returning from injury or otherwise occupied. Wilkshire,Neill,Moore are OUT,Aloisi and Chippers are returning from injury,Viduka,Beauchamp and Schwarzer are under an injury cloud and of course Culina and Bresciano are possibly unavailable.I expect Arnold to go back to his known quantities and rush in Stefanutto,Wehrmann and maybe McLenahan or Downes.Nick ward is currently trialling at Torino but Milicevic,Bosnar,Heffernan,McDonald or even Hayden foxe (if fit) may be worth a look if we are really lacking depth.I would expect Petkovic in goal.He must be running out of time to negotiate with the clubs so he had better get his skates on I reckon.
Pippu,there are a lot of female fans at games here in Japan and a lot of couples and families too.I only caught one Vissel kobe game last year but now they are in J1...bring it on!!

Posted by: DazzaJapan on February 1, 2007 12:46 AM

your response to my post seemes to show that you are very keen on the demons having a "whatever" well perhaps they should have maintained control of the stadiums in the AFl instead of only having 3 in Melbourne. Its shortsighted. Also I was trying to say that Sydneysiders will only come out to see winners as they are fairly fickle and certainly superficial in many cases. However it will build up there over time... football is addictive.. keep up the good work football fans in sydney, the Queensland fans are turning up even though they have a losing team and like Melbourne who had a losing team too. They will reap the fruit sometime.

Posted by: juanpabloangel on February 1, 2007 3:23 AM

If you check out Foxsports web page in the US, they have a football exclusive channel (FSC) and they show all the football from epl argentina national J league and guess what, A league, a half hour wrap show.... why isn't it available for all, I don't mind paying something... even on the foxsports.au website, they don't allow you access... it would be a good thing to showcase our football overseas. Then I could watch it.. until I return home

Posted by: juanpabloangel on February 1, 2007 4:25 AM

Anybody else concerned about the stadium in Melbourne. An rectangular stadium has to be great for soccer but it looks like Victory are going to ignore it and shoot themselves in the foot in the process.

If Victory can bump average crowds above 30,000 for the regular season then staying at the Telstra Dome is a no-brainer.

But a likely scenario is that
crowd averages drop to around 20,000 (still 5,000 more than anyone else). Not that I want to be negative here but everyone loves a winner (just look at at Sydney crowds).

If Victory stay at the Telstra Dome it detract from the atmosphere - 20,000 in an oval ground of 50,000 people is nothing like 20,000 in a 20,000 rectangular stadium.

If Victory get their way with a 30,000+ stadium it will look like a waste of government time and money if their crowds drop to average 20,000 (you can hear the complaints already from the non-football community). On a side note this is reason rugby league don't want it any larger (10,000 in a 30,000 stadium doesn't create that high energy atmosphere that a sold out crowd does).

27,000 should be more than reasonable given their average for this year is only just above that. Surely there is nothing wrong with reporting a sold out crowd every other week.

I love the Victory ambition but I think they should be careful on this one.

Well according to this report it looks likely Melbourne will be giving the new 20K stadium the brush off. Having not signed any deal to play at the new stadium, and not plans to expand the capicity to over 20K, I say to hell with them. The telstra dome wants them, its got a great atmosphere, and considering melbourne are in the CL in 2008, I'm sure they wouldn't mind the extra seats.

Posted by: Scouser FC on February 1, 2007 7:58 AM

Pippu d'Angelo at January 31, 2007 10:52 PM

Well done Pippu. Thanks for the update - I was profoundly pleased to read it. You hadn't lost your mojo around here!

ps Plant some basil ... but make sure you keep the snails away.

Posted by: Vicentin on February 1, 2007 8:32 AM

Thanks for that Dazza - I get the impression that the Australian game is heading the same way - certainly the CCM games I've seen on tele appear to have plenty of young women amongst the crowd - I'll leave it to another wag to add their theory on that.

But this is an interesting general question for all: would we like to replicate the atmosphere of the big European and South American games (electric as it is, but most certainly youngish male dominated) - or would we prefer to have a greater spread of society at our games: kids, retirees, women, etc? I can't help thinking that the two are mutually exclusive (to a certain degree).

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on February 1, 2007 8:54 AM

pippu d'angelo

Pippu,
I loved the football gag...!! It made me chuckle. I now nominate you as a second legend along side me.

I love football jokes.

KB

Posted by: Koala Bear on February 1, 2007 8:59 AM

Posted by: Scouser FC at January 31, 2007 8:47 PM

I think he'd be a good long-term signing for FC, the few games I watched him play he looked industrious and athletic.

And yeah, I can't imagine that if he is not contracted to any club and he looks the good while at FC they would not consider signing him for a longer period.

~~~

Posted by: Ben Willing at January 31, 2007 10:20 PM

I hope this does not pan out that way. Farina is not the sort of Coach that is right for FC. It would be a big mistake. Its my opinion that Sydney FC need to stop its on-going disruptive staff and playing squad reshuffles. Keep Butcher at least one more season, bring in some stronger players and consolidate the clubs position. I mean they are about to embark on the biggest sporting challenge of the club's short history in the ACL...and they wanna play silly buggers all the time?!!?!?! Farina? No way!

Even Pippu is looking forward to supporting Sydney in Asia as a result of his dislike of Adelaide.

Posted by: Jed Petersen on February 1, 2007 9:20 AM

A great opinion piece by TB this morning - it's always great to hear what the coaches have to say - especially someone as entertaining as TB.

He concludes his wonderful piece, which includes an historical allegory, with this paragraph:

" Perhaps the analogy is a bit too extreme, but I have great confidence in my team to go to Newcastle tomorrow and to put up a barrier that even the Spartans would be proud of. "

Van Egmond has also said today that he is wishing to make his back four a bit more solid. So, my brief assessment from earlier in the week is looking on the money. Jets cannot concede a goal, as simple as that, because they are unlikely to score 2 to even things up, and they are definitely not going to score three. Look for SFC to hold their advantage at nil all, with only the very occasional foray forward (it is difficult to imagine them going all out for the killer blow - they are far too undermanned to be too bold). Look for the Jets to almost do the same, hoping to squeeze one home by the end of the 90 minutes, afterall, they only need the one.

As I also said earlier in the week - the Vics v Croweaters game will almost be a mirror image.

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Anonymous on February 1, 2007 9:20 AM

Posted by: Vic at January 31, 2007 5:10 PM

I must ask -

Was that the very specific and uniquely skilled "Mongolian" style of sheep brushing, with their very perculiar penchant for dry brushing the wool with a hot plate heated brush, developed over eons of sheep brushing at high altitude in cold conditions - something many Australian's head to Utah during late Autumn to train for.

or

is that simply the world wide sub category of Sheep Brushing dealing with brushing of the relatively uncommon Mongolian Sheep breed? which of course is technically the same as the approach to any other breed brushing such that you every day Merino brusher need only adapt to the varying wool microns and sheep temperaments.

There's a distinct difference for all those raised on Sheep Brushing, and akin to the misrepresentation/misinterpretation that can be made by a careless use of the phrase "a duck eating crocodile".

Did you know that Pink & Chrissie Hynde have co-launched a campaign to ensure that Sheep Brushers all user brushes that have 100%of those little plastic balls firmly in place on the end of the brush bristles....

Posted by: Michael C on February 1, 2007 9:21 AM

A couple of soccer questions:

One - Lucas Neill being labelled a 'mercenary' by fleet street -
surely that's a bit 'rich' - surely the entire Chelsea side are mercenaries anyway? Isn't this really just a way for Fleet Street to vent their frustration with Australia(ns) re the ineptitude of their Cricket team?

Two - Given the 11th hr and 58th min signing of Salley during the finals series, is it possible that if MVFC for example had a Marquee player striker who got injured in the Prelim final, that they could effectively sign Frankie Lampart for a one week contract to play in the GF and pay him a million bucks for it?

Ben Willing: In the back of my mind I am aware of a rule that you can't bring in a Marquee player for just the finals. There is possibly a way around it IF there were an injury to a player in the same position as the possible marquee, and sign him on a short term contract, but final say would still be with the FFA.

Posted by: Michael C on February 1, 2007 9:27 AM

Posted by: Eddie at January 31, 2007 11:23 PM>

Eddie,
I protest ...!!! I resemble that remark, mine your tongue lad.

KB

Posted by: Koala Bear on February 1, 2007 9:34 AM

Posted by: juanpabloangel at February 1, 2007 3:23 AM

Re the Demons and Victory - my point was simply that the Demons deserved to have their position recognised and that Victory needed to be given a hurry up - given that they were last to the table re a project designed before they even existed.

As such, for the venue to go ahead without Victory would be how it was originally concieved and intended anyway.

Melb demons recognise the Victory bind, but not many people in the world are going to put their own plans on hold indefinitely for a neighbour who can't decide.

So it's not a 'whatever' attitude by the Demons at all. And obviously, their members would be annoyed if the Demons didn't come out and make some noice and state their position - no one should just bend over meekly.

Note that I reckon the AFL should have the MCG, TD and Princess Park (Carlton ground) should perhaps be the niche venue for 25K games where a low drawing Vic team players interstaters. The old days of suburban venues being used for top competition are well gone - if for no other reason than OH&S issues around the players and spectators. Maintaining 2 marquee venues is much easier than 10. [Oh, and it'd mean the catering corporates would need to sign more deals!!!]

Even the NRL are slowly pushing away from ye olde suburban venues - although not with huge success, the people still don't come and no doubt the geographic issues of Sydney don't assist.

At the end of the day, the Demons are hard done by because the MCG is traditionally their home ground - however, it grew, and they effectively got kicked off it (for training).

Posted by: Michael C on February 1, 2007 9:46 AM

I remember now my 3rd soccer question -

On SEN last night they mentioned that MVFC don't want the game to go to penalties...so I've checked the rules and this is my interpretation...(correct me if I'm wrong)

re if there is a penalty shoot out for Melb v Ade after another nil all draw

I gather from the rules for finals

So if after penalties, it's lets say 3-3, then Adelaide go through because they are the away team this week???

Isn't that a farce? Surely there's no 'home ground' advantage for a penalty shoot out? And should not each drawn game conduct a penalty shoot out then - as why would Melb volunteer to play game one away,such that they subject themselves to a disadvantage should there be a penalty shoot out??

Surely use the tennis theory for a tie break, keep going at the shoot out until there's a clear winner.

Otherwise, if there's going to be any element of home and away goals, then surely all 'away' goals in the penalty shoot out should count for double and so Melb would have to win 5-2 on penalties to be deemed a victor??

[I remember the comment about the 0-0 50K TD game I went to that it was apparently finals intensity - I understand now, there'll generally be a team not trying to win in normal time, defending to the death so they can then employ their tiddlywinks advantage! - penalty shoot outs - I'll never come to grips with 'em - they are my 'behinds'.]

Posted by: Michael C on February 1, 2007 9:57 AM

Brett Graham and Scouser,

I think Vic and I and others have said their piece on the 20k stadium issue and we all agreeded that it is short-sightedness of the Brack's government. However, the TD looks like a magnificent stadium with all of its extras, roof etc. But the sliding seating is ridiculous for a club to be held to extorsion for $40k a match to function; where in Sydney it does not cost the NRL clubs a cent, in fact they have special deals done. But that is Sydney and they realize that they are for the people and the people are not for the Telstra company.

It would be better not to build the stadium and spend the money on the TD to get it right with the sliding seating to fit the rectangle codes. Surly that make sense.

KB

Posted by: Koala Bear on February 1, 2007 10:02 AM

Additional to my question number 3 -

Was there no extra time for the MV v AU game last week? The A-League report only mentions the 90 mins, and the summary only mentions 'full time'.

anyway,

I just reckon the highest seeded team come the finals should progress if they insist on not 'resolving' each game to the fullest - forget the rot about home and away, we're not talking about WC qualification, we're talking about a finals series at the conclusion of a season. Next thing we'll see US baseball style best of 7....

Posted by: Michael C on February 1, 2007 10:07 AM

" Even Pippu is looking forward to supporting Sydney in Asia as a result of his dislike of Adelaide. "
Posted by: Jed Petersen at February 1, 2007 9:20 AM

ha ha - that's not too far off the mark!

The last time I gave this some serious thought (at least as serious as someone with such juvenile leanings as me can muster), I wanted the Croweaters to proceed into the 2nd round in the hope that they would come up against a Kuwaiti side - get absolutely smashed by them - and restore us in the hearts of all Kuwaiti oil sheiks! (to remain in the AFC at least until the next world cup). I have begged Cheech to use his influence down there, and to make the sacrifice for all Australians!

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on February 1, 2007 10:11 AM

Posted by: Brett Graham at February 1, 2007 7:28 AM

Fully agree. I've written a post up there somewhere about eh same thing. I reckon the stadium should be about 25K and Victory should for msot of their home games and transfer the Syd, QLD & Adelaide games to the Dome and pay to bring the seats in.

The talk by Victory management of building a 40K rectangular stadium in Melbourne is folly.

cheers
Redb

Posted by: Redb on February 1, 2007 10:22 AM

Jonas Salley Signed by Sydney FC.... aww god I wonder who is responsible for signing players for Sydney FC this will be as beneficial as the Jeremy Brockie signing. Looking forward to next year who else will we sign buari maybe or maybe even talk chad gibson to come play for us. not looking good.

Posted by: justin on February 1, 2007 10:30 AM

Jed,
I whole heartily agree, keep TB until the end of his contract; this is not the time to continually chop and change with managers.

Although I am not a great fan of TB we desperately need stability. We should then look to the future and look to Argentina for a first rate world, world-class manager.

This is only my opinion of course, but I like the way the national team of Argentina play.

Let's get a top rate manager and employ Raul Blanco as his assistant manager.

KB

Posted by: Koala Bear on February 1, 2007 10:33 AM

juanpabloangel at February 1, 2007 3:23 AM

Hey Juan Pablo, thanks for your posts. Great to hear from someone living in South America who is passionate about how the game develops here.

Apologies if you took my "winners" post to be directed specifically at your comments. I guess we don't have a critical mass of fans (hardcore in the sense that they will go to games no matter what) where we can afford to go pissing them off with poor performances (entertainment) etc.

I think it is harder for a team like Sydney to connect with potential fans largely because of the scale of the city. Making a huge generalisation Sydney is (un)surprisingly tribal, we live in the Eastern Suburbs, North Shore, Northern Beaches, Inner West, South West, North West etc ... remember too that Blacktown on its own has a population considerably larger than all of the ACT, and for many (including here) where you live is worn as a badge of honour. One of those ironies of course is that our huge population makes it hard for us to get a crowd because it is hard to connect with them (as opposed to Newcastle and Central Coast). Let's be honest, unless you're overseas, you don't just tell someone you're from Sydney.

Frankly whoever thought that “Bling” would do it for us (unite Sydney) should be shot … and this is coming from a pacificist. Conversely it is this very Bling and the “Sydney swagger” that makes other clubs’ supporters turn up in droves to “give us a kick” so maybe their life should be reprieved.

One also has to remember that those “ethnic” clubs were largely tribal on geographic and not just ethnic lines (and largely male - not family). A lot of the clubs were seriously “dissed” in the setting up of the A-League so it is hardly surprising that they aren’t putting their support behind Sydney. Don’t get me wrong, the breakaway had to be done, but I think there either has to be lots of bridge-building … or we just try and promote the game more effectively than we have this season both on and off the park. Give it time - but don't be complacent.

Jimboinho – re press coverage. Is it that bad? I’d like to see more about it on TV news bulletins I guess, but considering where we’re at at the moment the print coverage isn’t too bad. Again, there are only eight teams – there is only so much you can write about. I’d like to quality overall to be raised and the analysis of games to be better – and I’d like people to stop rumours about Frank Farina joining Sydney every week (Nooooooooooo!!!!! - camera retracts into sky) appearing in News Limited’s papers. Ok enough.

Posted by: Vicentin on February 1, 2007 10:41 AM

Scouser FC at February 1, 2007 7:58 AM

Thanks for the link.

It's truly unbelievable - considering the sort of year the Vics had in their first season - how things have turned around for them - now multi-million dollar stadia are vying for their tenancy! Talk about being in the box seat! So much is going right for them - I'm starting to worry - this much good news can't last!

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on February 1, 2007 10:44 AM

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo at February 1, 2007 8:54 AM

The make up of the CCM crowds is exactly as Dazza described the Japanese crowds. The only explanation I have is the broad appeal of the game. My wife is a good example of this. I have known her for 15 years and she has never really been interested in any sport. At the beginning of this season she said she would go to the first game but that would probably be it as she thought it would be boring. Next year we're buying two season tickets.

Posted by: djebella on February 1, 2007 10:44 AM

Latest on NZ, direct quote:

" SOC: Bidders merge in NZ contest for Knights franchise
Soccer AL NZ
WELLINGTON, Feb 1 NZPA - Two of the three bidders for the New
Zealand Knights' A League soccer franchise have merged.

The Wellington and Manawatu bids agreed to combine in an attempt
to head off Auckland ahead of a February 12 deadline. "

This gets me thinking, someone recently, and sorry I can't remember who, suggested that in the long run there could well be 2 clubs operating out of NZ. If the A-League wants to get up to 12 clubs, even 14 (26 game season, each club plays each other twice home and away) - that starts to make a lot of sense.

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Anonymous on February 1, 2007 10:48 AM

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo at February 1, 2007 8:54 AM

The make up of the CCM crowds is exactly as Dazza described the Japanese crowds. The only explanation I have is the broad appeal of the game. My wife is a good example of this. I have known her for 15 years and she has never really been interested in any sport. At the beginning of this season she said she would go to the first game but that would probably be it as she thought it would be boring. Next year we're buying two season tickets.

Posted by: djebella on February 1, 2007 10:50 AM

Posted by: Koala Bear at February 1, 2007 8:59 AM

KB, you can't have a legend on this blog who, despite his well constructed posts, amazing literacy skills & vast knowledge of football, still calls the game soccer & wants to justify mediocre in our sport just to avoid draws, ala WAIP.
Please a legend should be one who has no visible faults & one who we all look up to. Plus as Australians we seek our legends to be humble & not self opinionated like your good self.

Posted by: Robbos on February 1, 2007 10:52 AM

"So if after penalties, it's lets say 3-3, then Adelaide go through because they are the away team this week???"

Mike C

Penalties are best of 5 if its still tied up on penalties it continues until one team take the lead after each has had its 6th 7th 8th attempt etc.

Posted by: Jed Petersen on February 1, 2007 10:58 AM

surely that's a bit 'rich' - surely the entire Chelsea side are mercenaries anyway? Isn't this really just a way for Fleet Street to vent their frustration with Australia(ns) re the ineptitude of their Cricket team?)>

Comrade C, you have just alluded to us all of the poisonous tongue that Fleet street jurnos have.

Let us buy up all of the remaining $5 cricket tickets being offered on E-Bay by our English visitors and issue them to all of our nursing homes for a day out and a good laugh.

Our old Aussies stuck in those boring nursing homes deserve a good laugh and a day out on the piss.

KB

Posted by: Koala Bear on February 1, 2007 11:15 AM

Michael C

I had a bit of trouble following your query, so you'll have to excuse me.

Are you saying that it is possible that a penalty shoot out could get stuck on 3-3? Did I understand that correctly? If so, I'm sure that must be incorrect - the world over penalty shoot outs continue beyond the initial 5 until someone stuffs up (as always happens, although interestingly, I'm not sure of the rules if by chance they go through all 11 players and it's still tied.)

Or were you criticising the away goals rule? such that if it ends 3-3 at the end of full time, AU go through on away goals?

Otherwise, you are correct on one point, these home and away type fixtures with the away goals rule (used pretty much universally for supra-league type comps) do lead to very predictable approaches to games (for the most part). However, I'm not sure that your rule of the higher ranked team going through would fix the problem because that would lead to predictable behaviour on the part of the team with the advantage (although it might encourage the other team to come out all guns blazing - so there might be something good in that).

I've been thinking of putting up a post about the psychology and tactics of home and away finals games - it's probably something we will revisit if both games pan out how I have envisaged. On the other hand - if they don't - I'll crawl under a shell and shut up (fat chance!).

From the prelim onwards, there is just the one final. So, from one point of view, I can see that the main advanatage of home and away semis is that every club gets to host at least one finals match - which I see as a good thing (not to mention the benefits to the league coffers of hosting extra games!).

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on February 1, 2007 11:21 AM

Posted by: Jed Petersen at February 1, 2007 10:58 AM

Ah, okay, ta for that, I've got it now if I re-read the rules -

"If at the conclusion of both periods of extra time:

a. no goals are scored – penalty kicks will be taken in accordance with the FIFA Laws of the Game;

b. both teams score the same number of goals – the away team will advance under the away goals rule."

I was reading b as an extension of a if that makes sense rather than an alternative to a. (also, I hadn't referred to the FIFA laws).

I'm still curious then as to why Melb's worst fear would be for a penalty shoot out - surely their worst fear is a scored draw?? (I'll assume then it was slightly misleading comment on the radio - no surprise there).

Posted by: Michael C on February 1, 2007 11:27 AM

Koala Bear - Im from an Argentinian background and personally I wouldnt want a Argie coach when it gets to the important games they use the same old tactic when they get one goal ahead doesnt matter if the game is even 10 minutes old they will defend that lead. Evidence of this was evident against germany in the world cup. Bring on a Aussie coach for Sydney FC and For Australia id love to see Neeskens back and Baan as his assistant!!!

Posted by: justin on February 1, 2007 11:29 AM

Looks like there's one less New Zealand Knights player that FC can sign for the finals: Che Bunce

Posted by: djebella on February 1, 2007 11:30 AM

" Plus as Australians we seek our legends to be humble & not self opinionated like your good self. "
Posted by: Robbos at February 1, 2007 10:52 AM

Your spot on Robbos! I can't stand all those self-opinionated, artsy fartsy, commo, head-up-their-arse know-it-alls! They all make me sick in the stomach.

By the way, who are we talking about exactly?

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on February 1, 2007 11:31 AM

"Frankly whoever thought that “Bling” would do it for us (unite Sydney) should be shot … and this is coming from a pacifist"

Posted by: Vicentin at February 1, 2007 10:41 AM

Thats gotta be in the running for the 2007 FLOG Quotable Quote Award...perhaps ben should collate these in a word doc and rehash it towards the end of the year.

And its a good summary of Sydney's issues as far as uniting behind one team goes. There certainly are tribal differences between most parts of Sydney. Heck some people never get out of their little utopia to see the other parts of Sydney.

However, as a proud resident, I am not sure Blacktown's population is greater that the entire ACT. I do know that at a tad under 280,000 people it is the largest LGA in Australia (not to mention one of the wealthiest for that reason). But surely Canberra is at least 400,000???

Posted by: Jed Petersen on February 1, 2007 11:48 AM

After a pleasant early morning session of MSB(QLD style) I am in a more relaxed mood today, that is I was till I saw the rumours re Frank Farina.

Whats most disturbing is that I cant find any news item where he claims to be not be moving to SFC.

Ben,anybody got any later news on this?

Posted by: Vic on February 1, 2007 12:07 PM

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo at February 1, 2007 11:21 AM

You've no doubt noted already a clarification,

however,

I still presume that there was no extra time in the first nil all draw. If not, why would that be?

Because if there is extra time in the second match, due a nil all draw, then the same scenario applies of a scored draw at that point such that away goal weighting will advantage the 'visitors'.

So the unfair aspect would be that AU had only 90 mins at Home, vs MV having 120 mins at Home, despite both games being initially nil all.

In effect, in that scenario, AU would've had 33% more time in which to achieve an away goal.

(I've already referred previously to the lack of level playing field by the lack of minimum 'play time' for each game via no effective 'time on/off' system - this appears another anomoly - don't worry, I recognise no game is perfect, but this is for my understanding!)

Does that make sense?

Posted by: Michael C on February 1, 2007 12:16 PM

Robbos, Robbos, Robbos,
you are being too hash; and Pippu as I said has amazing knowledge and although he is one of those who I have identified as one of the stolen Football youngsters of the stolen generation (FYSG) there is no denying his immense knowledge and age and I repeat age. Younger then me perhaps, but the knowledge he has developed is quite amazing; for one of the FYSG. And does need plenty of love to bring him back to the fold.

To his credit, he has shown amazing progress to embrace Melb. Vic FC and to disenfranchise himself from his enforced interlineated "Bulldogs".

I do think he is starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel as he has moved out of Victoria and is now living in NSW to recuperate.

Let us all support his progress in this mindless brain washing he had to endure as one of our FYSG children.

Especially with a new found sense of humour. I am sorry my nomination still stands.

KB

Posted by: Koala Bear on February 1, 2007 12:34 PM

Posted by: Jed Petersen at February 1, 2007 11:48 AM

However, as a proud resident, I am not sure Blacktown's population is greater that the entire ACT.

Or was that the Northern Territory? It's big anyway.

cheers

Posted by: Vicentin on February 1, 2007 1:03 PM

Posted by: Justin at February 1, 2007 11:29 AM

Justin,
You missed the point, did you not see the game against Serbia and the way they smashed them 6-0? And did you not see them play in the Con-Federations Cup?

I am not an Argentinean and I have no borrow to push, but I rate them as the best football nation in the world.

They are much better than the Netherlands and even the eventual winners of the WC Italy; they have a lot of close control, which as an old midfielder myself in my playing days can really appreciate.

If you saw last week's game in the A-League we had a Scottish manager going to Hindmarsh, dropping Archie Thompson to the bench in the first half to maintain a clean sheet.

Stupid! Tactic! We would all agree; so it is in all Football countries around the world when the team starts to loose self-belief they then resort to safety first.

Give me possession, give me close control at the foot, and give me a lot of running off the ball with plenty of movement in the opposition's half. Argentina's Massena's goal is the classic example.

Just ask Vicentin, for the U-tube vision I don't know how to access it.

KB

Posted by: Koala Bear on February 1, 2007 1:13 PM

" Especially with a new found sense of humour. I am sorry my nomination still stands. "
Posted by: Koala Bear at February 1, 2007 12:34 PM

Well argued KB, lol - you are so close to the truth that even if it weren't so funny there would remain tears in my eyes nevertheless!

But like anyone firmly indoctrinated to a particular religion, I will defend it to the day I die (even if I take a peculiar pleasure in drinking the nectar of a different, wordly, monotheist God!).

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on February 1, 2007 1:40 PM

"And its a good summary of Sydney's issues as far as uniting behind one team goes. There certainly are tribal differences between most parts of Sydney. Heck some people never get out of their little utopia to see the other parts of Sydney."

No problem with understanding that.
Most of the time I lived in Sydney was out at Campbelltown ,before it became a refuge for Sydneys misfits.

I worked in the city and had friends near Dee Why.

It took a packed lunch and and a tank of petrol to visit Dee Why and an hour and a half to get to work if you were lucky.

Thats why Sydney has to work twice as hard as other cities to connect with the various football factions there and I might add it will take a lot more money to advertise and market the club than other cities.

The Roar for example is in a totally different position to Sydney in that off the field it has been stable from the beginning both from a management angle and financially, being backed by four licenced clubs more than any other sporting organisation in Brisbane.

(On the field well we wont mention the war at the moment on that subject a work in progress)

Plus it is a smaller city and the club has been able to succesfully engage the junior footballers there plus the senior clubs.
In my opinion the base to build on for any A-League club

Get the people involved in the game at all levels to watch the A-League they know the game through their own experiences so that is where you start and as I stated before judging by the demographics of the 32000 crowd for the Roar vs Sydney match they are having success in this direction.

Where is Sydney's money financed from.?
If they are relying on gate receipts they'll be down the gurgler in no time.

It cannot come from Frank Lowy because of conflict of interest but he certainly has the capital to finance a bigger penetration into this vast market

Posted by: Vic on February 1, 2007 1:46 PM

(Posted by: Vic at February 1, 2007 12:07 PM)

Vic,
I have not herd of any reports on Farina going to SFC.

However, I could never imagine that Frank would ever consider such a move. Wouldn't he be out of his mind to do so?

With such support and admiration he has in Queensland, and his great turn around with the Roar he would be nuts to do so.

I am sure he can still remember his unfortunate demise as Socceroo's manager and the rubbish he put up with from those connected to the Lowy family.

As they say, "once bitten twice shy."

Frank, if you are listening; stay with the Roar FC I am becoming quite an admirer of the Roar FC they appreciate you up here.

KB

Posted by: Koala Bear on February 1, 2007 1:51 PM

Michael C at February 1, 2007 12:16 PM

That's just the rules - I think it is more a case of convenience than anything else.

But - you say the away team will have the advantage (because there is an extra 30 minutes to get an away goal) - but if it goes to penalties, the home team probably gets the advantage. Although, if the away team scores, we are no longer talking about the away goals rule - we are talking about one team going one goal ahead over the two games, so once again, I don't think your logic stands up.

Think back to our last WC play off with Uruguay, and that is precisely the scenario that played out - with Australia getting the advantage of a penalty shoot out on home soil.

You ask why there is no extra time after the first leg - because it's not needed until its needed, i.e. until we know that everything is tied up.

However, one of your premises is correct, there is a lack of symmetry when it goes into extra time in the 2nd leg - and that's why I said earlier that it is really all a matter of convenience - the teams are there, the refs are there - and it has to be brought to an end one way or the other.

Ultimately, it all gets back to an underlying problem that soccer purists do not wish to consider - the paucity of goals means that we have to come up with all these band aid solutions - if scoring was back at 1950s levels - the need for a penalty shoot out would be once in 50 games as opposed to the present once in 5 games. As I once said, the WC went 72 years before it needed a penalty shoot out (in the semi in 1982 between W Germany and France - one of the greatest games ever by the way). Now we need it with annoying frequency - it simply does not do justice to "joga bonito".

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on February 1, 2007 1:51 PM

Vicentin/Jed
Pardon me for my instrusion - Canberra has a population of 330,000 - but if you throw in the population centres within 125 kilometres (including where I live) you'd probably get to 400,000+.

I also felt I had to point out that Brisbane must be pretty close to the most populous LGA in Australia, pushing 1 million as it is.

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on February 1, 2007 2:14 PM

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo at February 1, 2007 1:51 PM

(forgive me for a little extension of this...)

Well certainly if one team scores only - then it's game over.

And if this week is a 1-1 (or higher order multiple of goals) draw, then the away weighting comes into it.

It's only the nil all scenario this week that makes this an issue - the need for extra time and the unbalanced application of it over a best of 2 'series'.

I don't actually see how there's a home advantage come a penalty shoot out - by that point the crowd isn't able to influence the ref's decision making.

Anyway, based on the MVFC form, is there really any home advantage. Just seems a bit contrived - but when it's insisted on having a best of 2 games!!, really, why not make it best of 3, each game must be decided outright and so each game may go to penalties, higher finishing team gets 2 home games.

oh, well, but given that we've had a full season, MV finish on top, then why this 2 game stuff anyway?? why not they earn the right to a home game, and whoever wins is through?? Then there's no need for the home and away goal weighting stuff - that's what I mean by it's not as if this is international confed qualification for the World Cup - this is a season plus finals competition. Adelaide are just lucky there are finals, otherwise they'd just be another team that didn't win the (minor) premiership.

Surely, to echo a blogger from last year (who claimed that any finals series - aiming at the AFL - was just a money grab), this is just cynical revenue raising in the first round of finals. The methodology when you get to the major semis and GF changing just prooves further that it's flawed.

Posted by: Michael C on February 1, 2007 2:19 PM

" Plus as Australians we seek our legends to be humble & not self opinionated like your good self. "

Posted by: Robbos at February 1, 2007 10:52 AM

Robbos
Now I understand - you saying that KB is self-opinionated. Well, I dont' think he is going to argue with that description!

But I agree with you that humility is a wonderful attribute. Given the sheer quality and quantity of my witty, creative and intelligent posts - it is an absolute miracle that I am able to retain all semblance of humility!!

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on February 1, 2007 2:21 PM

"Most of the time I lived in Sydney was out at Campbelltown ,before it became a refuge for Sydneys misfits."

Posted by: Vic at February 1, 2007 1:46 PM

What? It once wasn't a refuge for Sydney's misfits?

Its good that you can appreciate the tyranny of distance experienced in Sydney...that goes along way to justifying the need for a 2nd Sydney franchise. As you say smaller cities better connect to all their people even at the junior level. Its has been spoken of the rivalry between Sydney and other cities...truth is the main rivalry in Sydney is between its various geographical locations not other cities or places. This is why NRL remains largely a Sydney competition there is just about enough teams to cover every distinct area. The closest thing to a rivalry in the A-League as far as Sydney goes is with the Mariners as they are commonly just referred to as the "Upper, Upper North Shore" or "Campbelltown by the Sea" or "Mt. Druitt with Seagulls"...so there is resentment amongst Coasties with being thrown in as a Sydney outpost. Plus A-League v.1 was fought out between the two teams in the end.

SO agreed, the more cmopact cities of Australia (basically all but Sydney) are best placed to engage their people. I have long beat the drum for FC to play some fixtures at Telstra Stadium but they are clearly not interested...which in a way is good cause it leaves the Western Sydney market largely untapped and rip for the plucking when the West Sydney Wanderers enter the A-League!!!

By the way, Brisbane is a lovely city, so pretty and easily accessible...I have often thought about relocating one day but I have too good a job here...I love those queenslander style elevated homes...so much charater like a Paddington terrace or Blacktown post war fibro!

Posted by: Jed Petersen on February 1, 2007 2:23 PM

Posted by: Koala Bear at February 1, 2007 1:51 PM

Frank farina as far as I'm concerned is the closest thing to a football icon QLD has.

I believe The Roar will definitely win some title during the next two years if he stays.
But as far as I know he does not have a contract for the next two years that was a word of mouth agreement when he first took over from Miron.
I would be disappointed to say the
least if he was leaving.

Been scratching around to find more info on this but no luck so far.

Looking at it from another angle surely it is destabilising for Sydney & TB with the important match tomorrow looming.

Posted by: Vic on February 1, 2007 2:47 PM

The MV chairman seems to be a progressive thinker as per the article below article from the Age.

I have often mused over a way to engage the teams in Asia Pacific as a developing area in football.

Michael C is right that there is an advantage to the away team in an extra time scenario. His logic stacks up perfectly.

If both teams score once at home (as in WC qualifier v Uruguay), we go to extra time all square. If both teams then score once in extra time, uruguay would have advanced on the away goals rule. It is unfair as they have had a longer period in which to notch an away goal.

I guess this advantage is mitigated by Australia's advantage in having a longer period in front of its own crowds; but the point is, if Australia had scored first in extra time that night, uruguay would have only needed to score once to go through, but if Uruguay had scored first, Australia would have needed to score twice.

Posted by: Ben G on February 1, 2007 3:09 PM

"when the West Sydney Wanderers enter the A-League!!!"

Personally Jed I have always believed a West Sydney team would work, particularly now with it being more diverse ethnically than when I lived there.

But will it work ie can the people of an area stretching from Parramatta to Penrith identify with a Westie team that covers 2 million people.?

My impression was when living there that there is such a thing in Sydney of Westies vs the rest but whats the best way to tap into that?

Because my thinking on this is changing rapidly with the Sydney FC identity problem.

Whereas before I have espoused that there should be no second team in Sydney till SFC estabilished itself, given the truth of the tribal nature of Sydney because of its size,if a West Sydney team can be estabilished with a strong "Westie "image this may in fact help Sydney FC to determine its real identity in this large market which is probably as others have suggested the Lower North shore,Eastern suburbs and parts of the southern area of the city.

Posted by: Vic on February 1, 2007 3:33 PM

Posted by: Ben G at February 1, 2007 3:09 PM

ta, I'm glad I'm not going mad. So either they should play 2 * 90 mins + penalties if needed or 2 * 120 mins + PSO if needed.

I know that the rules is the rules at the outset of a comp - I just hadn't considered the possibilities before, all the more reason for Pippu's suggest side net worth 0.167 of a goal....

Posted by: Jed Petersen at February 1, 2007 2:23 PM

Compact or spread out, Melb - now that people commute to CBD from Rosebud etc on the Mornington Peninsula, commute from Geelong etc now effectively encompasses a full circle around the bay - the big thing compared to Sydney though is that everyone effectively has a radian (roughly equidistant direct line to centre of circle) upon which to directly access the CBD. Problem with Sydney is that there's very little East of Sydney, so everything just gets pushed further and further out to the N,S and W. Simplistically stating the obvious. So the compactness is one element, but the position of the CBD relative to the demographic centre of town is more the issue, Sydney has an offset CBD hub. Brisbane is similar to Melb (although a more winding river), likewise Perth (would be different if Fremantle were Perth instead), and Adelaide just doesn't count (apologies Cheech).

Posted by: Michael C on February 1, 2007 3:33 PM

My apologies to Michael C - the way Ben G has described (also clarified in Michael C's subsequent post) makes it a bit clearer for me. I hadn't thought of the situation where both scored in extra time - I was thinking merely of one scoring.

However, as Ben G mentions, this is mitigated by the fact that more time is being played out on the home team's dung heap - so I still personally would not see it as an overwhelming advantage to the away team.

I wonder if anyone has any examples of this scenario being played out (where during extra time, both teams score a goal, and the away team goes through on the away goals rule).

But Michael C - regarding your other queries about the A-League finals - really - virtually any finals system dreamt up will attract any amount of queries (and let's be honest, in the AFL, we've known our fair share of finals systems over the last 35 years!).

There is an element of the cash grab in having home and away games for the semis (once again, that also explains the AFL's increase in finals positions over the decades) - but as I mentioned, I think it's great for the fans concerned that their team is guaranteed at least one home final, regardless of where they finish.

You are correct that finishing first (or third) gives no advantage in the semis - apart from the fact that they get to choose the order of the finals. It is instructive to note that both teams (Vics and Jets) chose to play their home game last - and I would certainly maintain that helped the Socceroos in the Uruguay WC qualifier last time. Also, regarding first place, carries with it automatic qualification to the Asian league - which more than compensates for the fact that they enter the finals series with the same privileges as 2nd place.

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on February 1, 2007 3:40 PM

Posted by: Koala Bear at February 1, 2007 12:34 PM

KB, I think you have gone soft up there on the GC, with your idyllic lifestyle, retired or the very least semi-retired. Like I said earlier, a Legend is one to aspire to. While I envy Galilieo's literary brillance, well maybe not envy but admire, it's the content I'm not so sure about. While I agree with FYSG needs to be loved. This is not reason enough to give him Legend status. Nor is age, repect is earnt (like you have) not expected due to age. I know alot of bitter old people.

Mr C, the extra-time in Melbourne also allows MV to play an extra 30 mins in front of their home crowd of 40,000 to 50,000 to cheer them home as legs gets tired. This negates the extra 30 mins AU gets to get an away goal. If given the situation does occur & we go to extra time. I think I would like to be in the home teams shoes.

Posted by: Robbos on February 1, 2007 3:45 PM

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo at February 1, 2007 3:40 PM

(I will discuss a little re other sports here, as soccer recluses will not have much idea of competitions that use finals systems)

The real oddball is the NBL with 8 of 12 teams making the finals.

I heard someone trying to belittle the AFL one day ringing SEN I think claiming how silly it was that half the teams make the finals?? - obviously this fellow was coming from some very unique background that I'm not familiar with.

At least, with all said and done, the old VFL had a final 4 and even when that was stretched to 5 it was 5 from 12. With expansion we had 6/14 and now 8/16. The NRL have had 8/15 so more than half the teams make the finals. 50/50 is certainly a minimum requirement of an 8 team comp. The argument of money grabbing or not with 8 from 16 always has to be offset by just the duty to give as many sets of supporters something to hope for - especially in single division comps with no relagation battles.

The systems themselves - well certainly the final 6 was a bit dodgey - the current final 8 seems better than version 1 of McIntyre system, but I believe the NRL are still using version 1?? Reality is a decent final 4 still seems the best, final 5 could see top team with 2 wks off which was often too much time off the park.

Posted by: Michael C on February 1, 2007 4:11 PM

Posted by: Michael C at February 1, 2007 3:33 PM

What you are saying is that the Sydney CBD is build on the coast, on a magnificent harbour, with some of the best City beaches in the world close by. And it's this attribute that attracts millions of tourist from every corner of the globe every year.
But it's not good for holding sporting events

Posted by: Robbos on February 1, 2007 4:15 PM

Its has been spoken of the rivalry between Sydney and other cities...truth is the main rivalry in Sydney is between its various geographical locations not other cities or places. Some awesome generalisations include:

*Shire People (Cronulla-Sutherland: Bubble people who are thought to never leave their so called "Gods Country". Racists. Anglos)

*Greater West (Bogans, 16 year old mums with 2 kids, flanno shirts. Tatts.)

It's divisions and generalisations like this within the city of Sydney which make it kind of hard for all of the city to identify with and unite behind one team. I still feel we need a western Sydney team sooner rather then later. I think it could prove to be the most fiery derby in Australian sport.

Posted by: JJ on February 1, 2007 4:15 PM

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo at February 1, 2007 3:40 PM

wikipedia had this example of how confusing th away goal rule in extra time can be...

There has been at least one case of a wrong application of the away goals rule by a referee in an international club tournament. It happened during the second-round tie in the 1971/72 Cup Winners' Cup between Rangers and Sporting Lisbon. This fixture had the following scorelines:

Since the teams were now level 6-6 on aggregate, the referee ordered a penalty shootout, which Sporting won 3-0. However, Rangers appealed the loss on the grounds that the referee should not have ordered the shootout, since the Rangers goal in extra time in Lisbon gave them a lead of 3 away goals to 2. Rangers won the appeal and went on to win the Cup Winners' Cup that season.

Posted by: djebella on February 1, 2007 4:19 PM

Posted by: Jed Petersen at February 1, 2007 2:23 PM

The Central Coast as Campbelltown by the Sea" or "Mt. Druitt with Seagulls ... that's classic. Why have I never heard of those?

... and in the spirit of identifying with your tribe, my "colours" are Inner West.
&
Posted by: Vic at February 1, 2007 3:33 PMBecause my thinking on this is changing rapidly with the Sydney FC identity problem.
Whereas before I have espoused that there should be no second team in Sydney till SFC estabilished itself, given the truth of the tribal nature of Sydney because of its size,if a West Sydney team can be estabilished with a strong "Westie "image this may in fact help Sydney FC to determine its real identity in this large market which is probably as others have suggested the Lower North shore,Eastern suburbs and parts of the southern area of the city. ... and the Inner West.

Yes, it may be easier to develop a fanbase for Sydney when it isn't trying to represent everyone. I think we've cracked it.

Posted by: Vicentin on February 1, 2007 4:20 PM

(experimenting)

Another good post Robbos - but please feel free to address me directly - I am but a mere mortal.

My only complaint is that there is another acronym to remember - and it's not one that rolls off the tip of the tongue either.

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on February 1, 2007 4:24 PM

Posted by: Robbos at February 1, 2007 4:15 PM

Yup, got it in one,

I often feel that I love to visit Sydney but I'd hate to live there.

That's both a back handed compliment to both Melb and Syd.

It's probably half the reason that more AFL supporters seem to travel to Sydney to watch their team than do NRL supporters travel to Melbourne.

I often feel that with Sydney, around every corner is another great photo op vista, only problem is that there are just so many of those corners, and lot's are on narrow multilane roads with only a white line separating opposite direction traffic (I know in recent years there's been a few more motor ways built - and like Melb some flawless tunnels that just fit into the regular traffic landscape like they had always been there.....)

(with respect to MY circumstances, make no inference re. other cities, as I'd love to live in Victor Harbour most in Australia).

Posted by: Michael C on February 1, 2007 4:39 PM

Can you guys tell me how to do italics again - it's just not happening for me.

Robbos - fair go! I turn 45 later this year - I'm not ready for the undertakers just yet!

However, my 45th birthday will represent a milestone that I am not quite happy about. It will be the final year that I can torp my age (or more). I've been losing about 2 metres every 5 years since I was 15. Sad, so sad...

Michael C
Good post re finals systems - the only thing I can add is that in the first year of the final 8, 1994, there were still only 15 teams, so for one year we had 8 of 15 (the Dockers then joined the following year to make it 16).

The new version of the final 8 is an improvement on the original McIntyre system (that league uses), but I have one reservation - about every 2nd year you end up with 1st playing 2nd in the prelim - and I'd prefer a system that negates that possibility (as you can imagine - I have personally created 3 different finals systems that achieve that - but do you think anyone is listening?!). This is why I have had to come onto a soccer blog - no one in the AFL was paying attention to me!

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on February 1, 2007 4:50 PM

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo at February 1, 2007 4:24 PM

My apologises Pippu, I was just debating KB on his application on lifting you to the Legend status. I wasn't addressing you in our conversation as i felt you may be uncomfortable to discuss your status of joining KB as our living legends.

Posted by: Robbos on February 1, 2007 4:54 PM

Posted by: JJ at February 1, 2007 4:15 PM

Great post JJ.

Posted by: Robbos on February 1, 2007 5:00 PM

"em"

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo at February 1, 2007 1:40 PM >

Pippu,
"em" That is not Comrade C is it (Gatherer Of Data).

Don't take any notice of me, I am just fanning my wings on a new skill that I have learnt from Ben W. and Vicentin.

I love it, and if you want to remain a legend, you better find out how to use it as quickly as possible.

As I'm under a lot of pressure to revoke your legendary status.

"em"

Posted by: Koala Bear on February 1, 2007 7:07 PM

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo at February 1, 2007 4:50 PM

'torp' - hmmm, you might have to elaborate for some folk - don't burst bubbles by illustrating that there are a vast multitude a ways to hold, drop and connect an ellipsoid so as to control (or lose) it's trajectory pending conditions/circumstance.

An ABC radio commentator once gushed "There's no better feeling than connecting with a perfect torp", the fellow on air beside him replied "Well, perhaps one"....I'm sure he was thinking along the lines of a perfect tee shot, or the perfectly timed straight drive back over the bowlers head for 6...or perhaps not.

"no one in the AFL was paying attention to me!
"

Actually at the moment the AFL is inviting supporter input re draft/trading etc etc on the website - I'm sure they'll get to every response (?!?!) and should you contribute in a manner consistent with your style here - then it could only be a matter of time before you're approached as an official advisor...

....anyway, I just submitted that anythings better than the FFA system that has permitted SFC to bring in Salley....

Posted by: Michael C on February 1, 2007 8:10 PM

Most would have read David Basheer's post by now about the merit of marquee players.

Two points I wish to add:

1. I honestly think it is far to early to assess whether the 4 week recruitment of Romario for $500,000 will have a long term positive impact (which appears to be the suggestion).

2. I think there is a big difference between recruiting a Dwight Yorke for $1 million for a whole season, who actually assists the club in getting somewhere (e.g. winning a championship), and paying a player $500,000 for only 4 weeks who only assists in upsetting the team balance.

Maybe there remains a future pot of gold for the money AU spent - but personally, I doubt it.

The article appears to also talk about Romario's short stint, and the long term recruitment of Fred by the Vics as if they were flip sides of the same coin - they actually represent two extremes that are poles apart in philosophy. I know which one I favour.

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on February 1, 2007 8:48 PM

"It's divisions and generalisations like this within the city of Sydney which make it kind of hard for all of the city to identify with and unite behind one team. I still feel we need a western Sydney team sooner rather then later. I think it could prove to be the most fiery derby in Australian sport."

Posted by: JJ at February 1, 2007 4:15 PM

Bravo!

I think someone understands.

A truely united Sydney is a fallacy. No matter what, Eastern Suburbs types and Northern Suburbs types think of Western Sydney as lower than a melbournian or tasmanian. Western Sydney is the shame of Sydney...thats why Western Sydney needs its own identity in the A-League. We are never accepted as part of what they consider to be Sydney so why pretend to care about their Football Club?

West Sydney Wanderers!!! West Sydney Wanderers!!! West Sydney Wanderers!!!

I think we have broken ground today.

Posted by: Jed Petersen on February 1, 2007 9:21 PM

I've just received my 2nd online edition of the Vics Newsletter. Looking throught it, it made me wonder whether some of the things they are doing are the norm amongst all 8 clubs, so I thought I would ask (out of curiosity, but others may find it interesting as well).

1. The electronic newsletter itself, it appears to come out weekly. There's a regular coach's spot in it which is usually good reading (although I would not expect any coach to reveal his full intentions publicly).

2. The Vics have their own shop selling their merchandise in Richmond (not far from the MCG, Jack 'Captain Blood' Dyer would be turning in his grave).

3. There's a stack of special offers from sponsors.

4. There are two (pricey) dinners coming up in Feb: a Grand Final luncheon; and their medal night ($150 a pop).

An interesting bit of news is that they reckon that 2,000 Vics supporters made their way across to Adelaide for the final. That's pretty impressive - that's more than 1 in 8 of the supporters at Hindmarsh - I wonder whether Cheech can confirm that they made their presence known.

I once said that I have been to two preliminary finals at the MCG where the Adelaide Crows fans easily made up one third of the 90,000 in attendance. It's not out of the question that AU fans could match the 2,000 benchmark set by the Vics, perhaps even surpass it. Let me tell you, you don't want to lose an important game of football on your own dung heap when thousands of Croweaters are there to let you know all about it!

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Pippu d'Angelo on February 1, 2007 10:30 PM

2 teams in New Zealand! Yes Pippo... agree we should follow that as a possible but only if the proposal is strong enough!
Following your logic... If you win the penalty shootout in the first leg and the other team wins in the second leg... would you suggest a replay or a further shoot out to decide who wins and where would you play it, Michael??? hahaha
Also shootouts continue after the fifth penalty on a basis of sudden death until someone scores and the other team doesn't... and that can go through the 11 players and then have to start again if there is still no winner...
what no one ever confirmed is what happens if one team has a player sent off... when you get to the eleventh man or woman, hahah, one team would be back on their first attacker and the team with 11 players would be on their goalie most likely! Now that would be unfair!
Now on the subject of Buenos Aires etc.. Argentine coach... Bianchi would be a great choice, knows how to mould inferior players into a winning system.. won the libertadores final 4 times and I think the world club 3 times. He was manager of boca and velez. However just look at the tactics of pekerman in the last game of the world cup and you will see what not to do. he played all his strikers toward the end of the game and there was no service for them. Bianchi was a great advocate of system.. boring but winning football. I am incidentally a C A River Plate member so it irks to talk up Bianchi, but hey if you want the best manager in my opinion he is the best!! He might cost you a fair bit though!! At least a million per season!!
and finally, in BA, the city is split into two. Capital and Province.. with two city governments... and the teams from the province, which include independiente, one of the most important teams in world football, not getting any breaks, the money is in the centre... so it goes to River Boca and Velez. Think carefully about a second team without sorting out who is going to attend!

Posted by: juanpabloangel on February 2, 2007 3:47 AM

Why are Sydney's crowds so small compared to the Victory's?? The main reason is for most of the year they have been playing dull uncreative football. I've attended five home games this year out of my loyalty to football however I can understand why the numbers have dropped.

If we had more players of the quality of Alex Brosque, Mark Milligan and Ruben Zadkovich and a couple more industrious players like Robbie Middleby the club would get the crowds.

On the subject of players, I am amazed how sheep like our football media are. Every story on last week's game talked about what a magician steve corica is...a couple of good crosses and he is labelled a magician.

He rarely plays a killer pass in the last third of the field, cant tackle and spends half his time walking around the park pointing to other players after the first 20 minutes.

Admittedly he does play the occassional half-decent cross but to be labelled a magician? Pft!!! The only player who could rival him for walking and pointing would be Alvin Ceccoli!!

Posted by: Chris J on February 2, 2007 5:04 AM

On SEN on the way home last night, there was about 10 mins of talkback focussed on the rediculous Salley scenario - until again the topic turned to Carlton footy club and their present woes and board election, but that's not a story for here.

Anyway - general consensus being -

FFA had a loop hole that SFC has obviously driven a road train through.

SFC have acted immorally and unethically.

That doing everything you can to win is one thing, but upsetting team harmony and balance is another (but probably doesn't matter if you plan to axe half the players for the next season anyway!).

That even an under 12s competition normally has a criteria of minimum games to qualify to contest the finals.

It's been average PR for the FFA - but then, the old thing about there's no such thing as bad publicity and it had people talking - again, until they diverted to bagging Carlton (generally even more enjoyable than bagging Sydney and NSW folk).

Posted by: Michael C on February 2, 2007 8:47 AM

Many of us will remember Michel Platini as one of the greats of world football, particularly during the early to mid 1980s; when he led France through their reasonably successful WC campaigns of 1982 and 1986; and when he turned out for Juventus in a star studded team, featuring Polish star striker, Boniek, and the bulk of the Italian WC winning team, including Cabrini, Tardelli, Scirea, Gentile and Rossi.

We now know him as the recently elected president of UEFA, having had a successful career in sports administration since his retirement from football in the late 1980s. Many may not be aware, but he is probably the only ex player of any note to have ever made it into the upper echelons of either UEFA or FIFA - and I think that says a lot.

He has a commitment to reform (although I would not be too concerned because he is essentially a purist and romantic at heart - remembering that when France made the last 4 of the 1982 WC they were dubbed "the last of the romantics" - and let me tell you, it was spot on the money).

However, as many of us have stated on this blog countless times, the political machinations of both UEFA and FIFA make the United Nations look like a well oiled bureaucratic machine.

The latest news I have read is that there is pressure from many sides within UEFA to tone down his reform zeal - once again, good policy will most likely give way to political expediency and ensuring absolutely no one is upset by any potential reforms; which essentially equates to zero reform. Any human activity that is not continuously seeking to improve itself, in one respect or another, will eventually regret that non-action.

One of his political rivals, former chief executive
Lars-Christer Olsson, has warned Platini:

" My advice would be for him to take his time. So if he is taking
his time, then that's good...He must also remember that the (presidential) vote was very
close, so he must tread carefully."

Good luck to Platini - once my favourite player - but what s&*t-fight of job he's got himself now.

Posted by: Vicentin on February 2, 2007 1:03 PM

Posted by: juanpabloangel at February 2, 2007 3:47 AM

What I'd suggest is that in line with the Prelim and GF, that you don't have semi-finals with a first and 2nd leg that can throw up such anomalies.

The top team should not have to forego home ground advantage in 'week one' (over 1,2 or however many 'legs')of finals.

But if you must have 2 legs, then don't have one shorter than the other!!! So - why not resolve the first game to a winner, rather than a draw? Well, unfortunately, it's too messy because not enough scoring occurs.

A best of 2 (or any even number) is always the dopiest structure in a perfect world - so why the heck have they chosen to have a 2 legged semi-final??

I just can't get over that one, I don't see any reason that they need it,

let alone any reason why in a finals match that the lower ranked team should ever have their goals weighted higher just because they travelled - - - travelling is the penalty for finishing lower in the first place!!!!

I really couldn't care now about the finals, bw this silly structure and the Salley thing, it's a structure that is fundamentally flawed, and must be rectified by next season.

Posted by: Michael C on February 2, 2007 1:23 PM

Posted by: Vicentin at February 2, 2007 1:03 PM

Vicentin
I had already described him as the former chief exec. As you have also intimated, it is simply indicative of what he is up against. I wish him all the best. Can a former great also be a good administrator? We shall soon know the answer.

pippu d'angelo

Posted by: Anonymous on February 2, 2007 2:16 PM

Posted by: Michael C at February 2, 2007 1:23 PM

An AFL fan such as yourself has no right to comment on the A-league finals structure. The FFA has a fair system in place, deal with it.

Probably you should wait till the AFL themselves get a fair system in place before commenting. So please.....

Posted by: cheech on February 2, 2007 4:21 PM

Posted by: at February 2, 2007 2:16 PM

Pippu, I think Platini has more than proven him self as an Adminsitrator. France 1998 World Cup - Platini was one of the top people manageing it. He has been actively involved in EUFA and French football for a while now.

I hope he sticks to his guns and implements all the changes he has said he will.

Posted by: cheech on February 2, 2007 4:25 PM

Cheech
good call - thanks for the reminder - I'm really hoping that's the case as well - but just like in the labirynths of the Vatican - you don't know whether that smile you run into in those dark corridors belongs to friend or foe...