On 6/20/12 6:40 PM, Martin Hepp wrote:
> Hi Kingsley:
> I am deeply convinced that GWAPs will remain an esoteric niche in Semantic Technology and the enthusiasm in the community for this is rather a sign for the strange mind setting. There are so many boring yet important tasks to be tackled, why do we always hop on the next buzzword leaving our old homework unfinished like nomads looking for new funding and publication topics?
I don't agree with your characterization. Remember, we want to attract
more Web developer and end-user profiles into this community. Thus, why
not give game developers good reasons to appreciate what Web-scale
linked data offers?
Again, a killer game driven by GoodRelations is waiting to happen. It
will more than likely also get a lot of folks employed too :)
>
> - Ontology Engineering for the Web: Not well understood, no established methods
> - Ontology Alignment: Still not up to the expectations
> - Web-scale Crawling and indexing of RDFa and Microdata: Nobody can do that as of today
> - Ontology learning from text: Still not up to the expectations
> - Community-based Ontology Engineering: Has not produced any significant ontologies by the participation of lay people
But these things can all happen if the scary distracting stuff is hidden
behind UI/UX. Gaming is one sure way of doing that. I don't have the
time to write or design a game just yet, but I will spare time and other
resources to anyone that's interested in exploiting Linked Data along
these lines, for sure.
Data Olympics is the ultimate game :-)
Link sent earlier by Melvin: http://vimeo.com/25681002 -- wonderful
presentation .
Kingsley
>
> Etc.
>
> Martin
>
> On Jun 21, 2012, at 12:26 AM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
>
>> On 6/20/12 6:04 PM, Martin Hepp wrote:
>>> I can only add to Elena's statement - in fact, it is rather the exception than the rule that a Semantic Web task can be turned into a good game that attracts large, non-nerd audiences.
>> I beg to differ. We all love quizzes. Just have to align them to player profiles and associated demographics.
>>
>> Jen's example at: http://verilinks.aksw.org/, really hits the mark for me.
>>
>>> Over the years since our first experiments in 2007, I have come to the conclusion that it is way more rewarding to turn such tasks into Amazon Mechanical Turk tasks (HITs) than to develop games.
>> That's a game that currently challenged along the following fronts:
>>
>> 1. Attributable URIs for contributors -- Digital Identity
>> 2. Digital Currency
>> 3. Virtuoso cycle scale.
>>
>> My head has been spinning for years re. GoodRelations based game ideas.
>>
>>> If we are honest to ourselves, then all of the existing SW games fall short in a terribly in terms of gaming fun and understandability.
>> A possibility, but let's look to the future. Deliverables of the past are distinct from underlying technology potential. Remember, The LOD cloud didn't have the kind of density it has today, and I don't even know if any of these games even hook into any edition of the LOD cloud and related data sources.
>>
>>> The difference between Luis van Ahn's successful games and our attempts of using this for the SW is that Luis used challenges where the processing of visual data and applying linguistic competence are the core intelligence task, two areas that are suited for broad audiences and easily link to entertaining game scenarios.
>> Yes.
>>
>>> But validating mapping axioms between bio ontologies and even open street map data is terribly boring in comparison.
>> But they aren't the only options. There are a zillion others. You know that.
>>
>>> Plus, the level of competence needed for cracking the interesting nuts in our data (e.g. subtle forms of polysemy like the city of Munich vs. the district of Munich) restricts the target audience significantly.
>> See my comment above.
>>
>>> To be frank, I consider GWAPs for the Semantic Web a dead end and would not invest additional lifetime into it.
>> That's a contradiction. You can't author GoodRelations and believe that to be true. Methinks, you need to reevaluate that comment. Can't let that pass by, GoodRelations is simply lethal when it comes to what's possible, on the semantically enhanced games front.
>>
>>> It was a promising field back then, and has a lot of appeal at first sight, but it will not solve any of our big challenges.
>> It will contribute in a big way! Size wise, it will make today's behemoths look miniscule, post bootstrap :-)
>>
>> Kingsley
>>> Martin
>>>
>>> On Jun 20, 2012, at 10:59 PM, Elena Simperl wrote:
>>>
>>>> Am 20.06.2012 17:52, schrieb Melvin Carvalho:
>>>>> On 20 June 2012 17:44, Elena Simperl <elena.simperl@aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de> wrote:
>>>>> Am 20.06.2012 15:19, schrieb Melvin Carvalho:
>>>>>> On 20 June 2012 15:11, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/19/12 3:23 PM, Martin Hepp wrote:
>>>>>> [1] Games with a Purpose for the Semantic Web, IEEE Intelligent Systems, Vol. 23, No. 3, pp. 50-60, May/June 2008.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do the games at: http://ontogame.sti2.at/games/, still work? The more data quality oriented games the better re. LOD and the Semantic Web in general.
>>>>> Hey,
>>>>>
>>>>> Most of the OntoGame games still work, and a more comprehensive list of related games is available at http://semanticgames.org/. One of the problems I see, however, is that all data collected through such games is not accessible or reusable by applications (or in other games, as a matter of fact).
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes this is a really important point.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you get the high score it should be part of linked data to your identity (eg like a badge). This makes the game 100 times more worthwhile to play!
>>>> In fairness, you want the games to be played by a very large user base, and most of these players will have nothing to do with Linked Data. They will need other incentives to engage with the game :-) But the results would be more useful, indeed.
>>>>
>>>> A second problem that I've seen with the increasing number of games being released over the past years (including ours) is that they produce very similar data sets, mostly in general-purpose domains, for which there are actually knowledge bases available containing that knowledge (as RDF). Having a standard means to reuse such crowdsourced data sets would make the games definitely more valuable.
>>>>>
>>>>> Elena
>>>>>
>>>>>> Others: Are there any other games out there?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> iand is working on a game:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://blog.iandavis.com/2012/05/21/wolfie/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kingsley Idehen
>>>>>> Founder & CEO
>>>>>> OpenLink Software
>>>>>> Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
>>>>>> Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
>>>>>> Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
>>>>>> Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
>>>>>> LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Dr. Elena Simperl
>>>>> Assistant Professor
>>>>> Karlsruhe Institute of Technology
>>>>> t:
>>>>> +49 721 608 45778
>>>>>
>>>>> m:
>>>>> +49 1520 1600994
>>>>>
>>>>> e:
>>>>> elena.simperl@kit.edu
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Dr. Elena Simperl
>>>> Assistant Professor
>>>> Karlsruhe Institute of Technology
>>>> t: +49 721 608 45778
>>>> m: +49 1520 1600994
>>>> e:
>>>> elena.simperl@kit.edu
>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>> martin hepp
>>> e-business & web science research group
>>> universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen
>>>
>>> e-mail: hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org
>>> phone: +49-(0)89-6004-4217
>>> fax: +49-(0)89-6004-4620
>>> www: http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
>>> http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
>>> skype: mfhepp
>>> twitter: mfhepp
>>>
>>> Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
>>> =================================================================
>>> * Project Main Page: http://purl.org/goodrelations/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Kingsley Idehen
>> Founder & CEO
>> OpenLink Software
>> Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
>> Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
>> Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
>> Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
>> LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> martin hepp
> e-business & web science research group
> universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen
>
> e-mail: hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org
> phone: +49-(0)89-6004-4217
> fax: +49-(0)89-6004-4620
> www: http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
> http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
> skype: mfhepp
> twitter: mfhepp
>
> Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
> =================================================================
> * Project Main Page: http://purl.org/goodrelations/
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Regards,
Kingsley Idehen
Founder & CEO
OpenLink Software
Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen