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Am I reading this correctly? One MH pass vs an FC title? If so; ya think?!?!?!

Sure. Its easy. To get an FC you only need two wins. Pen raised chicken finding, no crippled birds, no marks over forty yards, do two water singles for your water test. Ask Angie its a piece of cake. I would have to take an inferior breed and teach it to do MH retriever work. Sounds like I get the short end of the stick. Probably be easier to win the Kentucky derby with a shetland pony than take a non marking, non swimming springer to an MH retriever test.

Sure. Its easy. To get an FC you only need two wins. Pen raised chicken finding, no crippled birds, no marks over forty yards, do two water singles for your water test. Ask Angie its a piece of cake. I would have to take an inferior breed and teach it to do MH retriever work. Sounds like I get the short end of the stick. Probably be easier to win the Kentucky derby with a shetland pony than take a non marking, non swimming springer to an MH retriever test.

I can see that you were offended by Angie's remark, but your comparing what it takes to get an FC versus an MH seems a bit off. Regardless of how hard or easy Spaniel work is compared to retriever test, the fact of the matter is that to get an FC you have to win against stiff competition. To receive an MH all you have to do is meet the standard, that is far easier than winning a trial. I think a better bet would be to see if Angie could MH a retriever in the Spaniel game faster than you could MH a Spaniel in the retriever game.

BTW, I used to train with Jim McCreedy a guy who as FC'd a lot of Springer Spanials over the years. His dogs ran very good land and water blinds and were spectacular to watch in the field. I would hunt over one of those dogs in a hot second.

I can see that you were offended by Angie's remark, but your comparing what it takes to get an FC versus an MH seems a bit off. Regardless of how hard or easy Spaniel work is compared to retriever test, the fact of the matter is that to get an FC you have to win against stiff competition. To receive an MH all you have to do is meet the standard, that is far easier than winning a trial. I think a better bet would be to see if Angie could MH a retriever in the Spaniel game faster than you could MH a Spaniel in the retriever game.

BTW, I used to train with Jim McCreedy a guy who as FC'd a lot of Springer Spanials over the years. His dogs ran very good land and water blinds and were spectacular to watch in the field. I would hunt over one of those dogs in a hot second.

John

Spaniel MH is way too easy to achieve. A comparable bet would be a retriever SH to a spaniel MH, and I still think the retriever SH is harder. The competition at a spaniel trial is stiff. I do think the actual training complexity of training a retriever trial dog is more difficult and the fields are generally bigger. A 40 dog springer all age stake is big, but I know retriever trials tend to draw much larger entries. I do think allowing retrievers into flushing dog hunt tests would be great for everyone involved. Numbers would get an instant boost . Spaniel people would be able to pick up some pointers on training blid retrieves and retriever people would benefit from the upland portion if pheasant hunting is their thing. The minor spaniel breeds would end up left in the dust but they are damn near a lost cause anyway.

Spaniel MH is way too easy to achieve. A comparable bet would be a retriever SH to a spaniel MH, and I still think the retriever SH is harder. The competition at a spaniel trial is stiff. I do think the actual training complexity of training a retriever trial dog is more difficult and the fields are generally bigger. A 40 dog springer all age stake is big, but I know retriever trials tend to draw much larger entries. I do think allowing retrievers into flushing dog hunt tests would be great for everyone involved. Numbers would get an instant boost . Spaniel people would be able to pick up some pointers on training blid retrieves and retriever people would benefit from the upland portion if pheasant hunting is their thing. The minor spaniel breeds would end up left in the dust but they are damn near a lost cause anyway.

I believe clubs are allowed to limit their entries in spaniel field trials. That's why the lower numbers.

No real anmosity. Her and I have been bantering back and forth on a couple of threads.

Do you know her and this is playful bantering or are you just being a dick?

"The thing I admire about the rat tail is that it takes commitment. It's not like one day you just decide you want one, you have to grow out that bad boy and you have to repeatedly convince the hairdresser to trust you because it's a great idea."

The only thing hard about the spaniel FC for a retriever is that a lot of judges want to see a really hard flush, Springer style, with no hesitation on the scent...which really can make it hard for even the Boykins, who tend to have a bit softer flush, often preceded by a slight hesitation. Either way, my money is on Angie.