Agree with you on the Noah comment, Kanter does seem to be more developed entering the league. Noah was not, in terms of body and maturity, however his mobility, desire and pedigree were never in question, also its nice that he took defence a lot more seriously earlier in his career than offence. Many young players just want the glory at the start. Noah has invested his time wisely and made himself into a highly sought after commodity.

As for Noah, I knew he would be great after watching the NCAA tournament. The off court distractions that were going on in Chicago made me lick my chops and push for an Andrea Noah swap. (This was back in the Andrea stretches out defences period) I was attacked mercilessly for wanting to destroy team chemistry by bringing in a headcase. LOL.

Often, NBA ready players come at the cost of future upside. The Raptors should shoot for highest ceiling available, unless... this kid really is 10 rebound capable. If he is, I understand your fascination.

For all of you touting Vucevic the dude had a 25" vertical! That is ridiculously bad. The next worst player, a guard, was 30".

Who cares what his vertical is? What difference does that make? You think Patrick Ewing had a big vertical? Or Hakeem? I have a few misgivings about the guy, but what his vertical is is not one of them.

The stat that worries me about Vucevic, is 8 reps @185. That is just not that good for a big man that will battle down low.

I am a little disappointed that Kanter had 14 because I though he was the Bull of this draft and the most like a man.

Of course bench press is a lot harder for guys with long arms due to physics and leverage. Players skill can get around strength, but big men still need a good amount of it.

(it also shows both could become much stronger )

Bench pressing is the most useless stat at the combine, which is overrated, anyway. All it tells you is how many times you can bench 185, not how well you can battle down low. Not that it matters, but Kanter WAS one of the better guys at the bench press at the combine. And he was also one of the youngest.

Just disappointed with Vucevic result. As for Kanter, I did not say he was weak, but considering his build and size I thought he would turn in the best result at this test. For guys this size they are not very strong.

It's not entirely useless, it gives a good base result for how strong the player is. I am not saying it tells us anything about the players game. Durant isn't a contact player, but some of these guys are.

I am an overweight 38 year old and I can do better than Kanter and Vucevic. I don't work out anymore.
(I did 17 reps @ 225 to see how I would stack up against NFL prospects a few months ago - but I am a big boy - still I dont work out anymore, I am systems analyst)

(If we are talking Ben Wallace, Rodman type players, than a little kick ass in this test would not hurt)

Bench pressing is the most useless stat at the combine, which is overrated, anyway. All it tells you is how many times you can bench 185, not how well you can battle down low. Not that it matters, but Kanter WAS one of the better guys at the bench press at the combine. And he was also one of the youngest.

I have to admit, I find the bench thing pretty useless as well. Looking at myself, I played at a high level. I was a post and I could not bench 185 more than 5 times - sad but true with ridiculously long arms it was tough. HOWEVER, I did deadlifts for sets of 4-6 at 365lbs (3 plates plus 2-25 plates plus 45 bar). Very few people got the better of me in positioning and rebounding - eventhough I couldn't bench d!ck.

Dead lift would be a more useful a measurement than bench press for sure, but I think these tests are old and they are sticking to what they have been doing for years.

I also think you make a good point, about lower body strength being of more importance. What puzzles me the most is that if you work out, you can very easily do well on these test. Just three months of working out can easily double your reps. A huge component to strength development is neural training, or improving your capacity for muscle recruitment. Just repetition of an exercise makes you stronger, even if you do not gain muscle mass. Your muscles just learn to function more efficiently by coordinating their total work.

I am just surprised how many basketball players avoid working out. It can make a huge difference in explosiveness for a player.

Often, NBA ready players come at the cost of future upside. The Raptors should shoot for highest ceiling available, unless... this kid really is 10 rebound capable. If he is, I understand your fascination.

I agree about the ceiling, but 1) realistic upside is probably more important, and 2) this draft isn't exactly teeming with perennial all-stars. From all the scouting reports I've read on Kanter, I haven't heard anyone mention him as not having high upside (he's also not one of the more NBA-ready players, contrary to what you suggested). He doesn't have elite potential, but no one does in this draft. That's not to say it's impossible for a superstar to come from this draft, but nobody has shown the ability yet. In terms of guys within our range with the highest ceilings, it's pretty much Motiejunas (doesn't care about defense), Valanciunas (fouls more than Amir), Vesely (lacks quickness at the 3 and strength at the 4) and Burks (lacks strength and a consistent jumper). I'd put Kanter up there as well, and I think he's far more likely to reach his ceiling than any of those guys except maybe Burks.

I'm not going to say he's for sure going to rebound 10 a game, but scouts feel he's an excellent rebounder and has the desire to be the one coming down with every single board. Provided he plays starter minutes and his rebounding mentality doesn't change, I don't see why he couldn't average at least 9 per game, if not more.

Bench pressing is the most useless stat at the combine, which is overrated, anyway. All it tells you is how many times you can bench 185, not how well you can battle down low. Not that it matters, but Kanter WAS one of the better guys at the bench press at the combine. And he was also one of the youngest.

I'd be more interested in his squat, deadlift and overhead press numbers. Those exercises are a greater measurement of strength.

Regardless of how Kanter does in the NBA, I have to say he did an amazing job of staying in tip-top shape despite not playing competitively for so long. That treadmill test where he lasted as long as only 3 (IIRC) others, all guards, was quite impressive.

Howard with 7??? Well he should be out of the league. I think I am over reacting with this bench thing, but what the hell... these guys are are such pussies with weights. No wonder basketball fights always look so funny.

Regardless of how Kanter does in the NBA, I have to say he did an amazing job of staying in tip-top shape despite not playing competitively for so long. That treadmill test where he lasted as long as only 3 (IIRC) others, all guards, was quite impressive.

I found the staying in shape impressive. It is rare to see that even from a vet. It speaks a lot to his maturity and drive.

you're definitely over reacting on the bench thing. laying down on a bench and pushing the weight up isn't a good way to measure strength, especially for sports. squats and deadlifts are total body exercises that translate directly to competitive strength in football, basketball, hockey etc.

think of it this way: which exercise will help one establish position down low or out muscle a guy for a rebound? benching? or deadlifting?

I agree, but I still am a little shocked at the results considering they are scholastic athletes.

They are still young men who just left adolescence. Training can only take you so far - genetics combined with natural growth and development plays a major factor.

I look at myself in high school compared to high school and very, very early university. It took all I could do to dunk off two feet - no step. Now I'm 14/15 years older and not nearly in game shape as I was at that time but I can dunk off two feet with no step easier now than I ever could then. If only I could play 40 minutes at a high level..... I guess that is the trade off, lol.