Narrowed things down - thanks to help on the forum (you all rock) and discussions with folks at SVS. It helps that I live in Ohio and want to support them. I have read (too much honestly) about Hsu, PSA, Outlaw etc,. I honestly can't tell much of a difference and I know that any way I go I will get great equipment. I want to get something that will sound good, and I don't have to worry about upgrading. Warranty and customer service are very important to me.

Main question is Dual PB-1000 versus single PB-2000

Budget <$1000 US

Set-up

7.1 or 2.4 Dolby Atmos

Center MartinLogan Motion 30

FR/FL Martin Logan Motion 20 towers

Surrounds x4 Martin Logan Motion 4i

Ceiling Atmos x4 RSL C34E

AVR Denon AVRX6400 - love the Audyssey calibration

Room is 16 x 16 w/ 9 foot ceilings - ceiling has a bump out for ductwork making the square footage roughly 2300sq ft. Room is Drywall, floor is carpeted. It is below our kitchen.

I have 3 young kids and don't plan on rattling the walls - I don't need loud bass, plan to play at low-moderate levels. I want "clarity" if there's such a thing rather than loud kick in the chest which will anger my wife. Size and placement in the room are not a factor.

Thank you in advance - this forum has helped me purchase most/if not all of the stuff for my new home theater so far. Lots of knowledge and expertise here!

PB-2000s easily over the SB-2000s given your listening habits. The PB-2000 is tuned low enough that the loss of output below tune isn't worth the little bit of extension gained by the SB-2000. If you were an avid classical music listener or liked slower genres of music, the SB-2000 would get my vote. The SB-2000 won't have huge audible output (or room shaking capabilities) below 19hz. The drivers just aren't large or powerful enough for the job.

But I also say dual subs over a single sub. I would rather two lesser subs, than one larger ported sub (ex: two PB-1000s over a single PB-2000) due to room modes such as nulls that single subs suffer from.

Are you set of SVS? They make a great product, hands down, but there are other $800 subs on the market that will out perform the PB-2000 at the same cost. SVS has a great warranty, and some people love that. Nothing wrong with it, just seeing if you have explored all your options.

Power Sound Audio's subs start at $1000 it seems.
Also take a look at Rythmik's LV12R. $540 each shipped.

I'm a PSA fan myself and would certainly recommend them , but that's not what you are looking for. Your choices seem to be for a ported sub , but don't want loud? Ported will usually give you the most Loud For the Buck and their size is usually bigger which can anger others inside the house. At one point and time I had a sealed SVS Sb2000 , which wasn't enough bass for me , but it was small and packed a nice tight punch! I went thru quite a bit of ported subs, but found my way back to sealed and really enjoy their sound. In your case I would think the 2 PB1000s would probably be best , but you may also be interested in the SB2000s and can probably get duals under a $1000 in the outlet. They are super compact and aren't overly loud , but have a great sound to them.

PB-2000s easily over the SB-2000s given your listening habits. The PB-2000 is tuned low enough that the loss of output below tune isn't worth the little bit of extension gained by the SB-2000. If you were an avid classical music listener or liked slower genres of music, the SB-2000 would get my vote. The SB-2000 won't have huge audible output (or room shaking capabilities) below 19hz. The drivers just aren't large or powerful enough for the job.

Are you set of SVS? They make a great product, hands down, but there are other $800 subs on the market that will out perform the PB-2000 at the same cost. SVS has a great warranty, and some people love that. Nothing wrong with it, just seeing if you have explored all your options.
Take a look at Power Sound Audio as well.

The question is dual PB-1000 because everybody says that 2 subs are better than one or a single PB 2000 because it is more powerful. And yes, I have settled on SVS -have had some poor customer revive experiences, and some great ones and want to support the company.

The question is dual PB-1000 because everybody says that 2 subs are better than one or a single PB 2000 because it is more powerful. And yes, I have settled on SVS -have had some poor customer revive experiences, and some great ones and want to support the company.

Sorry, I edited my post after you quoted me. If you have a $1000 max budget, then I would easily say two PB-1000s from the SVS outlet.
If you think there is a chance you can save up another $450, I would get a single PB-2000, and in a few months get another.

Sorry, I edited my post after you quoted me. If you have a $1000 max budget, then I would easily say two PB-1000s from the SVS outlet.
If you think there is a chance you can save up another $450, I would get a single PB-2000, and in a few months get another.

No sweat. Thanks. The second PB 2000 is out of the question for now unfortunately. Really trying to stick to the budget

If you are the primary listener and can maximize the single sub for the main listening position through placement flexibility, the PB2000 will dig deeper and would be the better choice. If you are concerned about even response over more seats, two subs are generally better. It is hard to gauge the benefits of one vs. two without knowing more about the room and listening habits, however.

Me, without knowing more, I would get the one better sub and maximize for the MLP, and consider adding another down the road if need be.

If you are the primary listener and can maximize the single sub for the main listening position through placement flexibility, the PB2000 will dig deeper and would be the better choice. If you are concerned about even response over more seats, two subs are generally better. It is hard to gauge the benefits of one vs. two without knowing more about the room and listening habits.

Me, without knowing more, I would get the one sub better and maximize for the MLP, and consider adding another down the road if need be.

He listed room dimensions and listening habits in the original post. It's not hard to gauge the benefits of one vs. two subs. There IS going to be nulls. The question is if they are going to be significant enough to audibly hear after some basic EQ with the receiver. The other problem with that is the auto EQ will boost those nulls to try and compensate. Sometimes that can be good, but if the sub is boosted too much, unknowing how much boost is being applied, you can damage the sub turning the volume up too high and running into issues like excursion, distortion, or thermal limits.

Two PB-1000s will be comparative in output and most likely have more output in some frequencies because it can smooth out the nulls that the single PB-2000 is suffering from.

He did list a lot, but the basic question is whether you want to maximize the bass for one seat or if you want to try and spread out a better response over more seats. Me, personally, I like my Captain Kirk chair and don't care that much about whether young kids get more even bass response over the whole room. So my pick is still one better sub that digs deeper to 20Hz and below and maybe upgrade later. (I also recognize a strong case can be made for two subs).

He did list a lot, but the basic question is whether you want to maximize the bass for one seat or if you want to try and spread out a better response over more seats. Me, personally, I like my Captain Kirk chair and don't care that much about whether young kids get more even bass response over the whole room. So my pick is still one better sub that digs deeper to 20Hz and below and maybe upgrade later. (I also recognize a strong case can be made for two subs).

Smoother response isn’t just for around the room. It’s at the LP. Dual subs placed optimally and EQd at the LP is what I’m saying.

I have 3 young kids and don't plan on rattling the walls - I don't need loud bass, plan to play at low-moderate levels. I want "clarity" if there's such a thing rather than loud kick in the chest which will anger my wife. ...

Given your requirements and the size of your room, I'd go dual PB-1000s for output, extension and smoother FR across the MLP.

I have 3 young kids and don't plan on rattling the walls - I don't need loud bass, plan to play at low-moderate levels. I want "clarity" if there's such a thing rather than loud kick in the chest which will anger my wife. Size and placement in the room are not a factor.

As it has to be SVS it would seem that you would be matching your desires with dual SB12s rather than dual ported.

The question is dual PB-1000 because everybody says that 2 subs are better than one or a single PB 2000 because it is more powerful. And yes, I have settled on SVS -have had some poor customer revive experiences, and some great ones and want to support the company.

This is easy. It's SVS, order all three subs. Try out both combinations. Keep what you like. I would lean toward a single PB 2000. You can add another down the line if you feel the need for more.

Thanks everyone. I honestly don’t think I’ll be able to tell the differnence bwtween any of the Internet direct companies - have been back and forth for quite awhile, thinking about rhythmik, Hsu, psa etc. decision paralysis? Maybe. I like that the customer service and free shipping + trial period of SVS makes it simple. I also don’t think my wife would go for a “giant” sub. She’s been great about the ridiculous boxes the martinlogan motion 20s shipped in.

For hose if you with dual 10 inch subwoofers, have you been happy with the performance over time?

Thanks everyone. I honestly don’t think I’ll be able to tell the differnence bwtween any of the Internet direct companies

I can attest to the Monolith THX 12" definitely sounding "different" than any other 12" sub I've ever owned, including subs from RBH, SVS, Rythmik, Outlaw and Klipsch. The Monolith subs play with a very linear and incredibly clean output. Best 12" sub I've ever owned/heard. The Monolith THX 10" will have comparable output to the SVS PB12-NSD, which I own, and it won't be that far behind the PB-2000 for output and extension. The Monolith subs use high quality Claridy amps, incredibly beefy , custom drivers with cast baskets and tank-like built HDF cabinets. 5 year warranty also included on these subs. Monoprice really knocked it out of the park with the Monolith subs.

Thanks everyone. I honestly don’t think I’ll be able to tell the differnence bwtween any of the Internet direct companies - have been back and forth for quite awhile, thinking about rhythmik, Hsu, psa etc. decision paralysis? Maybe. I like that the customer service and free shipping + trial period of SVS makes it simple. I also don’t think my wife would go for a “giant” sub. She’s been great about the ridiculous boxes the martinlogan motion 20s shipped in.

For hose if you with dual 10 inch subwoofers, have you been happy with the performance over time?

As others have said you will get a better value in terms of sub performance outside of SVS. You pay for the other perks in their bill of rights which also of note requires you buy directly from them to get it. If you buy from amazon or other authorized retailer you just get the warranty and customer service. That being said their bill of rights stuff, like 45 day risk free trial and trade up program can be very useful. I chose SVS for these reasons and have traded up a couple times now. Even thinking of doing it again. Once you get a taste of good bass in movie watching you will undoubtedly want more. It's addictive and fun. Even if you are not playing at very loud volumes.

In regard to dual PB-1000s vs single PB-2000 their are pros to each. As others have suggested if you are ok with trying out both at once that's probably the best way to know. In most rooms duals will provide a more even frequency response for multiple seating positions and the MLP assuming you have flexibility with placement to get it right. However the PB-2000 will have better low end extension and more output down low which you can't get even with multiple PB-1000s. That adds a good bit to the movie watching enjoyment. I went from a PB-1000 to a PC-2000 and there was a clear improvement and I didn't need to listen at loud volumes to appreciate it. I also have 3 young kids who are often sleeping during movie watching and a wife that could care less about subs and prefers low volumes. Additionally the PB-2000 was a cleaner sounding sub. So if you mostly care about experience at your own seat (MLP) and have flexible placement options you may be able to find a spot for PB-2000 that has a decent frequency response for the MLP and if so it would probably be more enjoyable than dual PB-1000s.

There are a couple of things to consider. If you want the most even bass response, probably 2 subwoofers will be a better choice (though it will depend on room acoustics and where you place them, and with 2, it will be harder to set things up properly). But if you want the deepest bass response, one better subwoofer will be the better choice. Which matters more to you, depth of bass or evenness of response? If the former, get one good subwoofer. If the latter, then *probably* 2 subwoofers will be better, if one sets them up properly, though even so, it will depend on the particular acoustics of your room, so there is no guarantee that it will be better.

Also, will you have money/desire to upgrade in a year? If so, one better subwoofer now would be a better choice, so that the upgrade will just be buying another one like it later on, instead of getting rid of two subwoofers (which will involve losing money, as used subwoofers generally sell for less than what you paid for them) and replacing them both with more expensive ones. Given the way most people are who post at sites like this, I think the best advice for most of them would be the one better subwoofer instead of two lesser ones, to save money on their next subwoofer upgrade.

As an aside, if you don't object to the shape, you can get slightly better performance for the same price with the SVS PC-2000 instead of the PB-2000. (Look at the SVS website and compare.) It also takes up less floor space and is easier to move. The cylinder shape is very practical and very good; I currently own 3 SVS cylinder subwoofers (all old, discontinued models).

As for clarity rather than loud, keep it at the level your receiver sets in its automatic setup and you should be fine. Many people turn up the subwoofer from that level, which would likely bother your wife, judging from what you have stated. My wife was skeptical about better subwoofers when I wanted to upgrade some years ago, but she is happy about the old SVS CS-Ultra subwoofers I got back then, as I wanted deeper, better bass, rather than overemphasized bass. She hates boomy bass, but setting it up right with deeper bass is something she likes. If you turn up the bass to make things sound unnatural, then I can certainly understand someone not liking it. Of course, some people really like boomy, unnatural bass, and as long as they do not subject others to it, that is okay by me. The one, better subwoofer would get you deeper bass, and that is what I would choose in your situation.

As others have said you will get a better value in terms of sub performance outside of SVS. You pay for the other perks in their bill of rights which also of note requires you buy directly from them to get it. If you buy from amazon or other authorized retailer you just get the warranty and customer service. That being said their bill of rights stuff, like 45 day risk free trial and trade up program can be very useful. I chose SVS for these reasons and have traded up a couple times now. Even thinking of doing it again. Once you get a taste of good bass in movie watching you will undoubtedly want more. It's addictive and fun. Even if you are not playing at very loud volumes.

In regard to dual PB-1000s vs single PB-2000 their are pros to each. As others have suggested if you are ok with trying out both at once that's probably the best way to know. In most rooms duals will provide a more even frequency response for multiple seating positions and the MLP assuming you have flexibility with placement to get it right. However the PB-2000 will have better low end extension and more output down low which you can't get even with multiple PB-1000s. That adds a good bit to the movie watching enjoyment. I went from a PB-1000 to a PC-2000 and there was a clear improvement and I didn't need to listen at loud volumes to appreciate it. I also have 3 young kids who are often sleeping during movie watching and a wife that could care less about subs and prefers low volumes. Additionally the PB-2000 was a cleaner sounding sub. So if you mostly care about experience at your own seat (MLP) and have flexible placement options you may be able to find a spot for PB-2000 that has a decent frequency response for the MLP and if so it would probably be more enjoyable than dual PB-1000s.

Thank you so much for taking the time to post that detailed response. Your experience describes mine almost exactly. I suspect that I could get incrementally better performance, but honestly I don’t think I would notice it if I went with a different brand. At this point I just need to make a decision in the next week or so, and I appreciate the opportunity to audition & return from SVS. I think I’ll end up going with a single PB 2000, and then get another one in the future if I find it is helpful. My oldest isn’t in the cinemaphile movie watching age yet…

There are a couple of things to consider. If you want the most even bass response, probably 2 subwoofers will be a better choice (though it will depend on room acoustics and where you place them, and with 2, it will be harder to set things up properly). But if you want the deepest bass response, one better subwoofer will be the better choice. Which matters more to you, depth of bass or evenness of response? If the former, get one good subwoofer. If the latter, then *probably* 2 subwoofers will be better, if one sets them up properly, though even so, it will depend on the particular acoustics of your room, so there is no guarantee that it will be better.

Also, will you have money/desire to upgrade in a year? If so, one better subwoofer now would be a better choice, so that the upgrade will just be buying another one like it later on, instead of getting rid of two subwoofers (which will involve losing money, as used subwoofers generally sell for less than what you paid for them) and replacing them both with more expensive ones. Given the way most people are who post at sites like this, I think the best advice for most of them would be the one better subwoofer instead of two lesser ones, to save money on their next subwoofer upgrade.

As an aside, if you don't object to the shape, you can get slightly better performance for the same price with the SVS PC-2000 instead of the PB-2000. (Look at the SVS website and compare.) It also takes up less floor space and is easier to move. The cylinder shape is very practical and very good; I currently own 3 SVS cylinder subwoofers (all old, discontinued models).

As for clarity rather than loud, keep it at the level your receiver sets in its automatic setup and you should be fine. Many people turn up the subwoofer from that level, which would likely bother your wife, judging from what you have stated. My wife was skeptical about better subwoofers when I wanted to upgrade some years ago, but she is happy about the old SVS CS-Ultra subwoofers I got back then, as I wanted deeper, better bass, rather than overemphasized bass. She hates boomy bass, but setting it up right with deeper bass is something she likes. If you turn up the bass to make things sound unnatural, then I can certainly understand someone not liking it. Of course, some people really like boomy, unnatural bass, and as long as they do not subject others to it, that is okay by me. The one, better subwoofer would get you deeper bass, and that is what I would choose in your situation.

So the PC 2000 is a better sub in the PB 2000. Cylinder shape is not something I have any experience with.

So the PC 2000 is a better sub in the PB 2000. Cylinder shape is not something I have any experience with.

It is rated for slightly deeper bass response.

As for the floor space, since it is a cylinder and stands on its end, it is just the circle shape on the floor; it stands taller than the box subwoofer. And it is lighter weight. This is because with a curved side, it can be thinner and have less bracing to be equally strong. I recommend that you visit the SVS site and compare them for yourself, and ask SVS about the differences. Some people want a box shape, and will not consider a cylinder shape. I personally want the best performance for my dollar, and like having something that is easier to move than something that is harder to move, and I like having something that takes up less floor space. But some people like having a big box instead of a cylinder in their room, and they choose according to what matters to them. (The cylinder is easier to move, both because it is lighter in weight, and because the shape is easier to grab onto than a large box.)

God willing, we will prevail in peace and freedom from fear and in true health through the purity and essence of our natural fluids. God bless you all.

Well, honestly before starting all of this I didn’t even know that cylinder subwoofers existed! Thanks again

The cylinder subs are mostly unique to SVS. I’m a fan as well. The few spots I have available for subs are limited by floor space and the SVS cyclinders really gave me good options in my living room. They are tall but only take up 16.6” (diameter) of floor space. Performance between the box and cylinder version of their subs is very similar. The PC-2000 compared to the PB-2000 is a little backwards from the other lines. As noted above the pc-2000 extends 1hz lower. How much that is noteicable not sure. For their higher lines, 12 plus and 4000, the box versions have a little better extension and output due to slightly larger volumes of the boxes but still overall very similar. I went from PB-1000 to PC-2000 to PC12+ to dual PC12+s. Now contemplating dual PC-4000s but not sure how to ask permission from my wife yet again. I’m telling you good bass is addictive.

Based on the information you provided and what you're looking to achieve, dual SB-12 NSD subs would fit your criteria. Dual SB-12's are well within your budget. The PB-2000 will give you more output (kick in the chest) below 30hz whereas the SB-12 will not play as loud, but will give smoother response with a shallow roll-off which is what you're looking for.

Well, honestly before starting all of this I didn?t even know that cylinder subwoofers existed! Thanks again

The cylinder subs are mostly unique to SVS. I?m a fan as well. The few spots I have available for subs are limited by floor space and the SVS cyclinders really gave me good options in my living room. They are tall but only take up 16.6? (diameter) of floor space. Performance between the box and cylinder version of their subs is very similar. The PC-2000 compared to the PB-2000 is a little backwards from the other lines. As noted above the pc-2000 extends 1hz lower. How much that is noteicable not sure. For their higher lines, 12 plus and 4000, the box versions have a little better extension and output due to slightly larger volumes of the boxes but still overall very similar. I went from PB-1000 to PC-2000 to PC12+ to dual PC12+s. Now contemplating dual PC-4000s but not sure how to ask permission from my wife yet again. I?m telling you good bass is addictive.

I'd consider going with quads instead of replacing to get better duals.

I’ve been down this path. You’ll get a lot of comments, suggestions, opinions, and different experiences on here. The PB-2000 is far superior to the PB-1000. I’ve had 4 or 5 subs not worth mentioning before I discovered SVS, Hsu, and other ID subs. When I first got the PB-2000 I was so blown away especially after coming from smaller, lesser subs. I have a big open space but didn’t want to go over $1,000. I had some nulls in my space with one sub. But to be fair, at the time, I had a “lesser” AVR also. I decided to try out dual PB-1000’s while still having the PB-2000 (all this within the 45 day trial). Ok so yes, I liked the idea of dual subs and I did have a smoother response in the room. I sent the PB-2000 back and listened & tweaked the PB-1000’s for a month or so. They seemed fine with movies but I listen to a lot of music and realized they didn’t have that punch or mid bass I was “needing”. I started regretting sending the PB-2000 back.. wished I could’ve tried dual PB-2000’s. Well.. after much thought and research and feedback on here I ordered the Hsu VTF-3 MK5. Mind you, $800 for a PB-2000, $950 for dual PB-1000, and $895 shipped for the Hsu. As soon as I plugged it in and turned it on I was blown away. It got just as low or lower than the PB-2000 but had much more kick. So, I sent the PB-1000’s back and ordered another Hsu. I was getting a 2000w peak 600w rms 15” sub for $95 more than a 12” 1100w peak 500w rms 12” sub with more output and more kick or mid bass. Don’t get wrong, I “liked” the dual 1000’s and really liked the 2000 but the VTF-3 was the “wow”. I’ve since bought a better AVR and sold one of the Hsu’s since I got powered towers with built in 12” subs. With those dual 12’s in the front and the 15” in the right corner I have plenty of bass. I really think you should get the biggest, best sub for your budget and if needed or wanted, get another identical sub later on. The PB-2000 is a way better sub than the PB-1000 with more “oomph” and cleaner lower extension. With the right setup, placement, and settings (tweaking) I just think you’ll be happier with one better sub. Set the fronts to small and try 80hz and maybe even 60hz depending on your front speakers. Just think about this.. do your homework, research, and maybe consider other than SVS. They are a great company with great customer and have the 45 day trial along with the upgrade program which is great.

Note: I do have a PB-1000 (which I won from an SVS online contest ) and use it “nearfield”. I sit it behind the sofa for movie time. It’s a nice “starter” sub.