I suspect the issue is, however, that a good many bespoke makers simply don't aspire to marketing acumen. If you understand the impulses that drive a bespoke maker...be they shoemaker or tailor or high-end bamboo rod maker...you know just how inappropriate and even absurd such comments (usctrojans31's) really are. It's an entirely different mind-set.

Avoiding the patronizing and demeaning tone that you presented, there is a difference between overexposure and making oneself known.

Take Anthony Delos, for instance. He made it a point to be known, yet to let his craftsmanship do the talking. His 40 minute video on youtube where he barely utters a word is a perfect example of how to drive interest, yet keep the focus on the product, the process, and the true artisanal element of the product. Additionally, bespoke tailors, bespoke bootmakers, or whomever, drive traffic from referrals and word of mouth network building. That's where CRM comes into play. Look at the Neapolitan tailors who cannot keep up with demand; obviously growing TOO quickly is dangerous, yet there is a constant awareness. Few know about Ercolino, and I highly doubt that he wants it that way.

You're missing the point: some people don't care about being famous on the internet. It's not a flaw of Ercolino that he hasn't bothered with marketing.

As long as he's making enough money, he might not want to indulge in marketing to create hype and demand so that he can charge extra for his products.

Some people are comfortable with doing good work for fair margins. The work itself is rewarding enough. So long as he's happy with his clientele and he's making enough money to be happy, I'm not seeing an issue.

At the risk of cross-posting (I know none of that goes on around here)...

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWFII

I was recently asked to do a long distance interview with a gentleman--Mr. Ville Raivio--who operates a blog out of Finland addressing classic men's styles. The interview arose just as he is taking the blog international.

Some of his previous interviews have been with Bernhard Roetzel, G. Bruce Boyer, Karl Matthews, Alan Flusser, Will Boehlke and Luca Rubinacci , among others. And while those names don't mean much to a rather isolated, semi-retired old snab such as myself, the names will resonate with core Style Forum members, I'm sure.

It occurred to me that some here might enjoy it--KEIKARI.COM 24 Feb.2013

It really is a different mind-set.

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov, column in Newsweek (21 January 1980)

Ercolino charges a nice price and is quite busy. In the video he talks about finishing up and letting someone else take over - he's not interested in ramping up in my opinion

One of my favourite aphorisms: James Lee Burke said "There's no worse curse than approval." I think that's why Delos sold out, as well. I have a friend in Belgium who visited him a few times. IIRC, Delos had this little tiny hole-in-the-wall shop. He was probably happy until it started getting so crowded he couldn't move or think straight.Edited by DWFII - 2/24/13 at 5:25pm

At the risk of cross-posting (I know none of that goes on around here)...
It really is a different mind-set.

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov, column in Newsweek (21 January 1980)

I'm aware of the quote. I'll leave you to your pseudo-pretentious mindset where your universal assumptions are globally accepted. Cheers.

Avoiding the patronizing and demeaning tone that you presented, there is a difference between overexposure and making oneself known.

Take Anthony Delos, for instance. He made it a point to be known, yet to let his craftsmanship do the talking. His 40 minute video on youtube where he barely utters a word is a perfect example of how to drive interest, yet keep the focus on the product, the process, and the true artisanal element of the product. Additionally, bespoke tailors, bespoke bootmakers, or whomever, drive traffic from referrals and word of mouth network building. That's where CRM comes into play. Look at the Neapolitan tailors who cannot keep up with demand; obviously growing TOO quickly is dangerous, yet there is a constant awareness. Few know about Ercolino, and I highly doubt that he wants it that way.

Those artisans would never gain their recognition today by pursuing profits instead of perfection and craft. Sure they could have done a better job marketing via more efficient CRM process, but what if their time is already 90%+ utilized with a huge backlog?

I think you are mistaken artisan operations with enterprising. Not everyone has the opportunity, fortune, and/or aspiration to become the next Hermes.

At the risk of cross-posting (I know none of that goes on around here)...
It really is a different mind-set.

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov, column in Newsweek (21 January 1980)

Sorry for the digression, but: I met a man last year called Andrew Keen, who wrote a book about how the internet is destroying the primacy of genuine knowledge and expertise. This quote seems quite prescient. Anyway, I can recommend the book, called "The Cult of the Amateur". He also has a new one about personal date being "the new oil", which if you read the links at the very bottom of this page, is also quite apposite!

At the risk of cross-posting (I know none of that goes on around here)...
It really is a different mind-set.

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov, column in Newsweek (21 January 1980)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mimo

Sorry for the digression, but: I met a man last year called Andrew Keen, who wrote a book about how the internet is destroying the primacy of genuine knowledge and expertise. This quote seems quite prescient. Anyway, I can recommend the book, called "The Cult of the Amateur". He also has a new one about personal date being "the new oil", which if you read the links at the very bottom of this page, is also quite apposite!

Both ot these quotes, and more particularly their use in a thread about shoes (regardless of the fact that it is a bespoke thread), are so completely dispiriting for anyone who prides themself on being a rational man. The first takes the case for cheekiness and stupidity. Worse still, to have the quote wielded so inappropriately and hectoringly, by a shoemaker none the less (regardless of talent), makes one understand why we will never be free from posers.

Mimo, I too am opporsed to the democratization of knowledge and the ills of the mob, but I have been opposing it since the days of the printing press and the disastorous move away from Latin. Glad you have come to join the cause.

At the time of posting I wasn't aware of these ongoing feuds. Either way, I'm glad that the expertise of the DWFs, Bengals, Fritzls, Saphirs and more, is still easily viewed on SF. It's why I visited the forum in the first place, and makes it all worthwhile. Even if they do all seem to want to kill each other.

I apologise for being "dispiriting" and won't post in this thread again until I have some worthy shoes!

At the risk of cross-posting (I know none of that goes on around here)...
It really is a different mind-set.

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov, column in Newsweek (21 January 1980)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mimo

Sorry for the digression, but: I met a man last year called Andrew Keen, who wrote a book about how the internet is destroying the primacy of genuine knowledge and expertise. This quote seems quite prescient. Anyway, I can recommend the book, called "The Cult of the Amateur". He also has a new one about personal date being "the new oil", which if you read the links at the very bottom of this page, is also quite apposite!

Ahh, don't worry about it. People here, particularly several of those you referenced in your note, take things too seriously and they try to draw wider points from supposed universalities. People should remember they are discussing shoes and intellectual discussions about shoes are seriously handicapped by those participating in the discussions. Quoting a source, completely unassociated with the topic, (especially when that argument isn't any more than a nah, nah, nah) is a crutch at best. When wielded as it has been here - a useless distraction.

Both ot these quotes, and more particularly their use in a thread about shoes (regardless of the fact that it is a bespoke thread), are so completely dispiriting for anyone who prides themself on being a rational man. The first takes the case for cheekiness and stupidity. Worse still, to have the quote wielded so inappropriately and hectoringly, by a shoemaker none the less (regardless of talent), makes one understand why we will never be free from posers.

Conveniently, you redacted (as did the previous person who quoted me) everything that went before. I suspect you didn't read anything of went before either. In context, the Asimov quote was remarkably apropos.

The truth is that there are quite a few individuals on Style Forum that don't read other people's posts...either in entirety or even for simple comprehension. They are not really interested in engaging in conversation. They kibitz. They don't really and truly want to invest the time to engage other human beings or learn anything that is outside their sphere of opinion. So they read looking for phrases and quotes to take issue with. On the internet generally such people are commonly known as "Trolls".

We use the word "troll" to synopsize all that could be said about disrespectful, disingenuous, aggressive, sneeringly cynical, and deliberately antagonistic people who seem to haunt these places, without having to describe their ill-mannered behaviors in detail.

The quote I offered does much the same thing...it condenses a real truth into a a succinct and pithy aphorism that almost everyone can understand and relate to.

Here's another that applies in this circumstance..."We are all born ignorant...but choosing to remain ignorant is the one sure path to stupidity".

I might add that just as I try hard and deliberately never to diss any maker, brand, or manufacturer, when I'm talking about shoes, I try not to diss anyone or call people names, characterize the way they choose to make a point....OR dredge up old quarrels (esp. ones that I was not involved in)....as you have done. That's nearly the definition of hectoring.

That said, I will respond if I feel someone is being a dick and is deliberately misconstruing what I have to say.

And in passing, despite what you would have people believe, the poser is the individual who opines about anything and everything without knowing enough to legitimately have an opinion. He is "posing" you see, as something he is not. Ring any bells? Look for me in discussions about canvasing or watches or thread counts, etc.. Maybe it will give you something relatively "productive" to do.

Conveniently, you redacted (as did the previous person who quoted me) everything that went before. I suspect you didn't read anything of went before either. In context, the Asimov quote was remarkably apropos.

The truth is that there are quite a few individuals on Style Forum that don't read other people's posts...either in entirety or even for simple comprehension. They are not really interested in engaging in conversation. They kibitz. They don't really and truly want to invest the time to engage other human beings or learn anything that is outside their sphere of opinion. So they read looking for phrases and quotes to take issue with. On the internet generally such people are commonly known as "Trolls".

We use the word "troll" to synopsize all that could be said about disrespectful, disingenuous, aggressive, sneeringly cynical, and deliberately antagonistic people who seem to haunt these places, without having to describe their ill-mannered behaviors in detail.

The quote I offered does much the same thing...it condenses a real truth into a a succinct and pithy aphorism that almost everyone can understand and relate to.

Here's another that applies in this circumstance..."We are all born ignorant...but choosing to remain ignorant is the one sure path to stupidity".