Six years. After that the cords inside the tire carcass become brittle and can separate.

doctor demo

08-15-2010, 09:15 PM

An interesting question I was just asked.

What is your opinion?

TMT
It depends on application, and if the old tire is old stock or old as in use.
I would trust a 40 yr. old wheel barrow tire , truck hauling tnt not so much.

Steve

Gravy

08-15-2010, 09:20 PM

What kind of tire, on what kind of machine, going how fast?

ASSuming a motor vehicle tire on public roads, after 4 or 5 years, I'm looking really close for cracks. Ozone and UV are evidently more prevalent these days, and rubber compounds keep getting more "cost effective".

I've got 1980's light truck tires on my ugly old utility trailer. The rubber is less cracked than the 3 to 5 year old Goodyear and Carlisle trailer tires on cargo trailers that I deal with at work.

hitnmiss

08-15-2010, 10:33 PM

6 years! Some people change their oil every 3,000 miles too!

KIMFAB

08-15-2010, 10:40 PM

That depends a lot on where you live. Out here in the desert 6 years is pushing it. I've had a cheap tire give out after only a couple of years.
When I have to make my trips to Vegas in the summer when the temps are 110+ you see a lot of extra rubber on the road.

Greebe

08-15-2010, 10:45 PM

Till it is completely bald of course.:D

Dr Stan

08-15-2010, 10:48 PM

I've been told 5 years is the max on a vehicle or trailer tire.

boslab

08-15-2010, 10:51 PM

till there a flat bit at the bottom!
no forget it, it depends on what its on, would you have 6yr olds on your Hyabusa or porsch, 170 mph on old rubber, no thanks, i dont think i'd trust any kind of rubber if it that old [unless you secretly want more kids!]
mark

v860rich

08-15-2010, 10:52 PM

I just had a 10 year old BF Goodrich Commercial TA explode on the rear of my 1 ton dually. I had checked the inflation the morning of the failure and noticed alot of checking of the sidewalls, note to self, better get some new skins. Now I have six new ones.
The worst thing is the old ones only had 35,xxx miles on them.
Truck should be out of the body shop tomorrow after $1200.00 repair!!!

THANX RICH

People say I'm getting crankier as I get older. That's not it. I just find I enjoy annoying people a lot more now. Especially younger people!!!

Ken_Shea

08-15-2010, 10:58 PM

When I buy tires they are there for the duration, wear out/blow out.

But there is definitely some validity to being cautious on today's tires, and the rubber now used, notice lately that anything made of rubber is frequently failing prematurely?

Thank you EPA!

Dr Stan

08-15-2010, 11:08 PM

When I buy tires they are there for the duration, wear out/blow out.

But there is definitely some validity to being cautious on today's tires, and the rubber now used, notice lately that anything made of rubber is frequently failing prematurely?

Thank you EPA!

In reality tires are better made today than in years past.

BTW, by waiting until they blow you are putting yourself and everyone around you at risk.

gcude

08-15-2010, 11:37 PM

This question and the replies remind me of the movie, "The World's Fastest Indian". :D

Ken_Shea

08-15-2010, 11:39 PM

In reality tires are better made today than in years past.

BTW, by waiting until they blow you are putting yourself and everyone around you at risk.

Yes they are, still that does not negate the fact the rubber they are made from is as long lived as it could be.

Try getting 80,000 miles out of the 80,000 mile rated tires, it's a joke and you are kidding your self to believe otherwise.

Personally, never had a tire blow out, wear out? yes, so my statement reflects that they wear out prior to blow out, I do not drive on bald tires.

Dr Stan, are you saying you replace your tires every 6 years or are you endangering yourself and everyone on the road as well?
Perhaps you can trade cars for a new ones every four years, that is still not the same thing as replacing your tires every six years.

Have a question, who here replaces perfectly physically good looking tires because it it 6 years old so that in 6 years and one day your worried that it may explode killing all aboard and all those around you.

Not saying it's not a legitimate consideration, just that it does not happen in the real world.

Improper inflation over many miles is more then likely the cause for most tire failures then actual blow outs caused from age.

Mcruff

08-16-2010, 12:13 AM

Heck I've got a set of mud tires on my old Jeep that have been there for 18+ years now and I still drive on them quite often. The tread is still in good shape, about 15,000 miles, one of them has a few small cracks in but not bad at all. The other 3 seem to be fine.

"Clearly not all"
"an old tire may have been"
"nobody officially tracks"

:D Don't you just love it.

I know I'm worried now.

SteveF

08-16-2010, 12:30 AM

Have a question, who here replaces perfectly physically good looking tires because it it 6 years old so that in 6 years and one day your worried that it may explode killing all aboard and all those around you.

Me.

Last year I decided to join the motorcycle club and bought a little used Honda off a friend. Tires have manufacturer date codes on them. The front tire was almost 5 years old, the rear just over 6. Tires had about 95% tread. I rode about 100 miles, decided I liked riding and would keep the bike and then took it in for new tires. My mechanic said it was a very good call because the insides of both tires had rubber flakes inside from dry rot.

If someone is driving an average of 12K a year, they will wear out the tires long before 6 years.

Steve.

Ken_Shea

08-16-2010, 12:41 AM

Me.

The front tire was almost 5 years old, the rear just over 6. Tires had about 95% tread. I rode about 100 miles, decided I liked riding and would keep the bike and then took it in for new tires. My mechanic said it was a very good call because the insides of both tires had rubber flakes inside from dry rot.

If someone is driving an average of 12K a year, they will wear out the tires long before 6 years.

Steve.

Was a perfectly good and prudent call, "because the insides of both tires had rubber flakes inside from dry rot."

Close examination on the outside would have shown similar issues, which replacement would not apply to my statement indicating, "perfectly physically good looking tires"

BTW,
Those flakes indicate not so much dry rot from age but heat damage from under inflation.

Too_Many_Tools

08-16-2010, 01:02 AM

Just a thought...when considering the safety of one's tires, one must remember that the spare tire is sitting in the trunk growing old...er.

When you replace your tires, do you replace your spare too?

TMT

Ken_Shea

08-16-2010, 01:04 AM

Me.

If someone is driving an average of 12K a year, they will wear out the tires long before 6 years.

Steve.

That is a good point Steve,
The caution here is when purchasing new, to be sure that what you are getting/paying for is new production and not something setting on the floor for 5 or six years.
However, there is big difference between a set of tires setting on the show room floor and those bought used at some junk yard.

.

Ken_Shea

08-16-2010, 01:08 AM

Just a thought...when considering the safety of one's tires, one must remember that the spare tire is sitting in the trunk growing old...er.

When you replace your tires, do you replace your spare too?

TMT

TMT,
The spare, in my opinion, is not that same thing a a tire being run on the road, they are not exposed to the same harsh environment, abuse or neglect.

gmatov

08-16-2010, 01:19 AM

I don't think there is such a thing as "dry rot" on rubber tires. Rubber does not "rot" . it supposedly offgasses, loses the elasticisers.

Ozone is supposed to be the worst enemy of artificial rubber, which is what all tires are made of.

One dealer told me that 8 years was the max for a full size spare, way back when you actually GOT a full size spare.

I have a 36 year old travel trailer that I have to pump up the tires every Spring. Still make it to the campground. They don't blow up. They are D load range.

Who in the hell actually gets anywhere near the "80,000 Mile Warranty"? I buy my tires and have alignment done at the same time. I buy "80,000" mile tires. I get them rotated per lube schedule. I have bald tires after about 15 thou miles.

I have bought Pirellis, ****, Cooper, not so bad, yet, BF Goodrich, not good. Them who tell you they get 50 thou on a set of tires are lying. As to wear, they are no better than 40 yeas ago.

Cheers,

George

SteveF

08-16-2010, 01:25 AM

Close examination on the outside would have shown similar issues, which replacement would not apply to my statement indicating, "perfectly physically good looking tires"

No longer have the tires but the tires looked perfectly fine on the outside except for some very small sidewall cracking.

I just replaced the tires on my flatbed trailer that gets used to make very few, very short trips and those tires were 9 years old. Trust me, I know EXACTLY what tires well past their replacement date look like.

Did try the used tires stores and after digging through tires and realizing that most of the tires were 4 - 5 years old I decided to just buy new ones for the trailer.

BTW - If anyone ever has to use Fix-A-Flat, get to where you are going and then get the tire unmounted and clean that stuff out. Had to sandblast and repaint two rims on the trailer because of the rust.

Steve.

Ken_Shea

08-16-2010, 01:29 AM

Here is a simple explanation to the causes of what is called "dry rot"

"Ozone
Tire manufacturers use waxes to protect against ozone. When tires are in use (regularly running up and down the road for example) they flex. Flexing causes the protective waxes to migrate to the surface where they form a physical barrier between the air (ozone and oxygen) and the tire polymer. This process...the waxes migrating to the surface of the tire during flexing..is called "blooming". When tires are not regularly used ( a parked RV, boat trailer, or classic car, etc), blooming does not occur. Ozone begins eating away the protective wax and before long reaches the tire polymer. Often by this time, the surface carbon black has lost its ability to protect against UV. With UV light and ozone working in concert, degradation starts. The tire dries, checks, and will eventually crack."

Ken_Shea

08-16-2010, 01:32 AM

Steve,
"some very small sidewall cracking."

Then they were not fine, as that is the tell tale sign of damage, on a motorcycle even more important.

dp

08-16-2010, 01:33 AM

If it hasn't been said, there's no such thing as a safe old tire.

Frank Ford

08-16-2010, 01:41 AM

Oy! I drove a 1961 Metropolitan for 27 years with the tyres (It's a British car, you know) it had in 1981 when I bought it until 2008 when I sold it. Not a lot of miles - about 8,000 total, but sometimes on the freeway at speed. Dint know it was potentially dangerous. . .

dp

08-16-2010, 01:52 AM

Oy! I drove a 1961 Metropolitan for 27 years with the tyres (It's a British car, you know) it had in 1981 when I bought it until 2008 when I sold it. Not a lot of miles - about 8,000 total, but sometimes on the freeway at speed. Dint know it was potentially dangerous. . .

The loss of a Metropolitan is not a great loss, Frank.

:D Just keeding!

Too_Many_Tools

08-16-2010, 01:53 AM

TMT,
The spare, in my opinion, is not that same thing a a tire being run on the road, they are not exposed to the same harsh environment, abuse or neglect.

Maybe..maybe not.

The interior of a trunk can get as hot as the interior of a car..really hot.

The underside of a vehicle is a hostile location exposed wide temperature variations, chemicals, oil and abrasive elements.

TMT

Mike Burch

08-16-2010, 05:51 AM

My 1994 Nissan one-ton truck has done 28,000 kilometres (17,400 miles) and is still on its original Japanese tyres. They still have heaps of tread, and otherwise look perfectly safe to me. In fact I have just had the local tyre guys swap the wheels around while doing an alignment, and they commented on what good condition the tyres were in. (And didn't so much as hint that I should give them lots of money for new ones!)
Here in New Zealand every vehicle over three years old has to be inspected every six months to get a Warrant of Fitness, without which it's illegal to keep or drive it on a public road. (Under three years old, the WoF is annual.) Part of that inspection involves the tyres, which must have a minimum depth of tread all round, and no visible sidewall deterioration.
So running them until completely bald is not an option!

Your Old Dog

08-16-2010, 07:28 AM

When I buy tires they are there for the duration, wear out/blow out.

But there is definitely some validity to being cautious on today's tires, and the rubber now used, notice lately that anything made of rubber is frequently failing prematurely?

Thank you EPA!

I think that should read: Thank you China. A lot of rubber coming from China. They had a recall on my brand new travel trailer tires and I got a free set of tires. That would have been good but it was really an inconvenience as the set I had were brand new !!

..............................................

Who in the hell actually gets anywhere near the "80,000 Mile Warranty"? I buy my tires and have alignment done at the same time. I buy "80,000" mile tires. I get them rotated per lube schedule. I have bald tires after about 15 thou miles.................................

Hypothetically speaking, you buy a tire for $100.00 and they warranty it for 80,000 miles so we think we are getting a good deal when we buy it. BUT, the tires normal life expectancy is only 40,000 miles. You go in and they PRORATE the wear and only charge you $75.00 for the tires which incidentally, is about what they are really worth. There 80,000 mile warranty is what brought you back to them a second time. It's a ploy that is as effective as advertising but more of a sure thing.

Ken_Shea

08-16-2010, 08:25 AM

Maybe..maybe not.

The interior of a trunk can get as hot as the interior of a car..really hot.

The underside of a vehicle is a hostile location exposed wide temperature variations, chemicals, oil and abrasive elements.

TMT

Ha-ha, yeah, forgot about those miserable spares mounted under neath the vehicle.

Although I do not recall ever seeing a unused spare dry rotted, at least none not ancient, most definitely not to say there aren't or cant because, sooner or later they all will.

Black_Moons

08-16-2010, 10:47 AM

I saw one report that went around to 'new' tire stores, decoded the date stamp on the tires.. And found many tires at 'new' tire stores to allready be 5+ years old!

914Wilhelm

08-16-2010, 11:07 AM

Ah!!!!! Reminds me of a fun filled adventure we had with the "new" to us 37' 1992 winnebago we bought last summer. Tires looked great and after a few small shake down cruises went on the big trip from PDX to Yellowstone. Started off at 4am with hopes to make it there in 12 hours or so. Made 80 miles before a tire exploded ripping the skirting off the side. Nothing beats the exhiliration of laying inches off the fog line with semis racing by your head while holding a flashlight in your mouth wrestling with a heavy tire. Dragged the exploded tire into the living area to the wide eyes of the spouse. Told her we would get a new tire in Hermiston, OR where there is a Les Scwab store. Made it another 40 miles into the middle of nowhere when a tire on the other side exploded. Fortuitously I bought AAA just before we went so they sent a guy out with tires. Turned around, went to The Dalles, OR, spent several hours and $1800 there. Made it to Spokane, a 6 hour drive in a total of only 14 hours. And who says spending time with the family can't be fun?

Too_Many_Tools

08-16-2010, 11:11 AM

An example of what looks good isn't...

A neighbor just acquired a 1990 Chevy pickup with about 10,000 miles on it that was stored in a temperature controlled storage unit for 20 years (lucky devil).

It has the original tires on it.

The tires looked like new...and knowing his habits the tires were properly inflated.

He has driven it about 8000 miles.

And has had two blowouts..both rear wheels.

No evidence of any punctures in the ruined tires.

I am thinking it is time for him to buy a new set of tires.

TMT

Frank Ford

08-16-2010, 11:29 AM

The loss of a Metropolitan is not a great loss, Frank.

:D Just keeding!

Well, it IS a loss of a hobby. Those electrical faults, monthly tuneups, weekly lube jobs and daily maintenance did give me stuff to do.

I could park that car next to just about any vehicle, and it would be the one that got all the compliments and smiles. . .

Dr Stan

08-16-2010, 12:08 PM

Dr Stan, are you saying you replace your tires every 6 years or are you endangering yourself and everyone on the road as well?
Perhaps you can trade cars for a new ones every four years, that is still not the same thing as replacing your tires every six years.

Have a question, who here replaces perfectly physically good looking tires because it it 6 years old so that in 6 years and one day your worried that it may explode killing all aboard and all those around you.

Not saying it's not a legitimate consideration, just that it does not happen in the real world.

I have a 2007 Dakota with the original tires, so they are < 5 years old.

The tires on the '99 Seville are about 3 years old.

The tires on my trailer (load range E) are > 3 years old.

So yes I replace tires, not vehicles before the 6 year mark, even if they have plenty of tread.

The only ones that are older are on my '68 Mustang which is in the process of a complete tear down and not on the road.

Too_Many_Tools

08-16-2010, 01:16 PM

I have a 2007 Dakota with the original tires, so they are < 5 years old.

The tires on the '99 Seville are about 3 years old.

The tires on my trailer (load range E) are > 3 years old.

So yes I replace tires, not vehicles before the 6 year mark, even if they have plenty of tread.

The only ones that are older are on my '68 Mustang which is in the process of a complete tear down and not on the road.

An observation..

I once was in an auto dealership waiting for a friend to conduct his business.

Checking out the new cars, I noted the tires they had.

Some of the new cars had "new" tires that were over two years old.

TMT

lynnl

08-16-2010, 01:56 PM

Although I do not recall ever seeing a unused spare dry rotted, at least none not ancient, most definitely not to say there aren't or cant because, sooner or later they all will.

Just before returning from Guam in 1984, I bought a new Nissan King Cab P/U, 4WD. It had Bridgestone "Desert Dueller" off road type tires on it. Returned to the US and after about 4 or 5 years, with relatively low mileage, one of the rear tires developed a knot on it and was starting to delaminate. So I replaced it with the spare, which had never been on the ground.
Within the next few months all 4, including that spare, started showing signs of obvious delamination.

The garage owner who replaced those tires for me pointed out the sure signs of imminent failure: 1) tiny hair line cracks visible in the rubber surface between the raised treads, and 2) the feeling of slight, steady vibration on an otherwise smooth highway. My experiences since then have consistently borne out his advice.

So now, my philosophy on buying tires is this: If I were expecting to drive on them for high mileage I'd get expensive tires. But for low mileage useage it's a waste of money to buy the really high dollar tires, since they're going to fail due to aging anyway.

Speaking of 80k mile tires: I bought a little 1989 Pontiac Sunbird in 1990 or 91. It had some 20k miles at the time, and the tires looked like probably originals ...General Tires. Those tires still had lots of tread left at about 82 or 83K, when I replaced them some 4 or 5 years later. But they were starting to show the hair line cracks.

Evan

08-16-2010, 02:20 PM

35 years. :D

The tires on my Land Rover are at least that old. They are made of something similar to cast concrete or maybe are JD Steel wheels in disguise. The sidewalls don't crack because to even begin to look low on air the pressure has to be below 5 psi. Each tire has enough weight capacity to handle the entire vehicle. The rubber is harder than the road. Of course, I don't drive it on the public hiways any more but these tires will outlast me easily.

http://ixian.ca/pics7/lrtire.jpg

Ken_Shea

08-16-2010, 02:49 PM

I have a 2007 Dakota with the original tires, so they are < 5 years old.

The tires on the '99 Seville are about 3 years old.

The tires on my trailer (load range E) are > 3 years old.

So yes I replace tires, not vehicles before the 6 year mark, even if they have plenty of tread.

The only ones that are older are on my '68 Mustang which is in the process of a complete tear down and not on the road.

There are exceptions to anything and everything, in this case you are the exception, not sure what that means really, none the less this practice is sure not typical of drivers in my corner of the world.

It is no exaggeration that I have installed thousands of tires over the 35 years in several cities when I was was in auto repair and never was this a practice. Had instances where people were going on a long trip and put new tires on as the ones replaced were wore but otherwise good and they did not want trouble. Had nothing to do with tire age though.

I've never read where there is any absolute proof of this age thing, when there is reliable documented proof other then all the hype you read on the internet then i will change my tune on this issue. Till then it's my intention to use the proper tires, tire pressures, loads and tire inspections till they wear out.

Peter.

08-16-2010, 02:55 PM

I had a bike built in 1982, which had the original tyres on it when I got it in 2006 and when I got rid of it in 2007. I did 7000 miles on them at up to 120mph with no problems.

Peter S

08-16-2010, 08:33 PM

Growing up on a farm meant having our mail delivered by the rural mail guy. He used to buy his van tyres ahead of time and store them in the dark. This, he reckoned, increased their life....harder possibly? The only guy I know who practiced this extravagance.

This was back in the bad old days when tyres were cross ply, and sometimes you bought re-treads to "save money", but funny thing, they didn't last very long either....

Too_Many_Tools

08-16-2010, 10:58 PM

Walked out of Walmart tonight...and some guy was on his back trying to change a tire..with a bolt the diameter of your thumb sticking out of the sidewall/face of the tire.

Another thought...remember my friend with the 20 year old tires?

When he had the first one changed, I asked him if the staff at the tire store had cautioned him about the tire's age...nope...no one said a word to him about the three other 20 year tires still on his pickup.

A missed sales opportunity?

TMT

Too_Many_Tools

08-16-2010, 11:02 PM

A question for the group...should tires have an expiration date and the customer required to be replace them after that date?

And why is this not the case now?

One would think that companies would love to have this in place.

But then perhaps companies would be liable for any failure traced to a in date tire.

TMT

Too_Many_Tools

08-16-2010, 11:10 PM

I had a bike built in 1982, which had the original tyres on it when I got it in 2006 and when I got rid of it in 2007. I did 7000 miles on them at up to 120mph with no problems.

*Shudder*

Yeah...I too was just thinking about the bikes I used to ride and what passed for *cough* tires on them.

Reminds me of the saying..."Sometimes we are just too stupid or lucky to die."

TMT

Too_Many_Tools

08-16-2010, 11:17 PM

35 years. :D

The tires on my Land Rover are at least that old. They are made of something similar to cast concrete or maybe are JD Steel wheels in disguise. The sidewalls don't crack because to even begin to look low on air the pressure has to be below 5 psi. Each tire has enough weight capacity to handle the entire vehicle. The rubber is harder than the road. Of course, I don't drive it on the public hiways any more but these tires will outlast me easily.

http://ixian.ca/pics7/lrtire.jpg

I would hate to have to remove that tire from the rim by hand...in the winter

TMT

Too_Many_Tools

08-16-2010, 11:27 PM

Today I asked an employee at a Big Name Tire Store about prolonging the life of a tire.

He said that if one rotates a tire on a regular basis, the "oils" of the tire will not settle and dry rot will not occur.

I think he is full of it.

TMT

Dr Stan

08-16-2010, 11:52 PM

Today I asked an employee at a Big Name Tire Store about prolonging the life of a tire.

He said that if one rotates a tire on a regular basis, the "oils" of the tire will not settle and dry rot will not occur.

I think he is full of it.

TMT

I swore to myself I was going to leave this thread alone, but I allowed it to suck me back in.

TMT, I think you're correct. Did you happen to check the color of his eyes? Were they brown or was he just a quart low? :D

Evan,

Your 35 year old tires appear to be military grade. If so, that's not a fair comparison.

To anyone,

To my knowledge Germany has the most stringent & comprehensive auto inspection in the world. Does anyone happen to know if they have an age limit on tires?

Stan

Evan

08-17-2010, 12:06 AM

I would hate to have to remove that tire from the rim by hand...in the winter

In the winter they can run with no pressure. :D

Your 35 year old tires appear to be military grade. If so, that's not a fair comparison.

Butch: "Waittaminute, first let's get the rules straight..."

aostling

08-17-2010, 08:49 AM

Butch: "Waittaminute, first let's get the rules straight..."

Butch then proceeds to kick Harvey Logan in the cojones, winning the knife fight, right? Not in the alternate version. I saw the movie when it first came out, in San Francisco. In 1971 I saw it a second time in Wellington, where it was just opening. The knife fight scene commenced, and I waited expectantly in my seat for what I knew would really surprise the audience. Butch approached Harvey to discuss the "rules," and when he got close enough he decked Harvey with a sucker punch to the jaw.

"Wait a minute! That's now what happens!" I didn't actually stand up and say this, but I almost did. New Zealand used to censor violence in movies. I guess that's no longer the case.

MickeyD

08-17-2010, 09:45 AM

If you live in a hot area 4 years is a good rule of thumb. High heat greatly affects how fast deterioration happens. This is the 4th summer for the tires on my truck, and while they only have 35K miles, they are not as grippy as they used to be so they are now on the list of things to change.

Evan

08-17-2010, 09:54 AM

Butch then proceeds to kick Harvey Logan in the cajones, winning the knife fight, right?

You missed the part where Harvey replies " RULES? There ain't no rules in a knife fight". Then Butch kicks him.

I even found the scene on YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWTNBRs7Ccs

PixMan

08-17-2010, 10:31 AM

FWIW, I had a set of 4 new Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires put on my car in September of '06. The car had 72,600 miles on it then. Those tires right away struck me as being the nicest tires I've ever had on a car because they were quiet-riding, stuck like glue and were said to be a long-life tire. The car now has 133,000 miles on it, and those tires just passed the annual state inspection with no problem.

But, the tires need to go. The car sat from October until June with only one ride taken in March. There are the tell-tale small cracks of dried rubber in between the tread blocks, but the most obvious sign that they need replacing is the noise level. The tires sing so loud that I have to watch the tachometer to know what the motor is doing. Plus, it just doesn't ride as smooth as it once did, even though I had the local garage do a Hunter Road-Force Balance of all 4 tires in September.

Even though the tires appear to have another 15,000 to 20,000 miles left on the tread, they will be changed in the interest of safety and comfort.

bborr01

08-17-2010, 10:52 AM

I have a 2003 Chevy Trailblazer with over 85K miles on it and it has 2 of the original tires on it. The tread is not to the wear bars yet. (The other 2 tires were taken out by road hazards. Edit: The tires from the factory are BF Goodrich rugged trail T/A.

I plan to replace all of them before winter gets here.

I run a lot of tires past 10 years old. Probably shouldn't. But I do.

I have quite a few cars, trailers, motorcycles etc.

Changing tires by the calendar would be cost prohibitive.

Some things that I feel will extend the life of a tire:

1. Proper inflation.

2. Keeping them out of the sun/UV rays.

I do make one exception. Trailer tires on my 5th wheel. I replaced them at 7 years old before I made the 2000 mile trip to Arizona.

When pulling a trailer like that and getting a flat, you may not know you have a flat until someone pulls along side you and points it out to you. By then the guts of the trailer may litter the road. NOT PRETTY.

If I was doing a lot of very high speed driving I would consider things a little more carefully.

Brian

Too_Many_Tools

08-17-2010, 11:11 AM

For those who drive on tires over six years old (apparently the maximum recommended age to run a tire), have you ever considered that you likely meet hundreds of people on the road each day doing the same thing...and the consequences of their old tire failing would potentially have on your and your family's safety?

TMT

Too_Many_Tools

08-17-2010, 11:17 AM

I have a 2003 Chevy Trailblazer with over 85K miles on it and it has 2 of the original tires on it. The tread is not to the wear bars yet. (The other 2 tires were taken out by road hazards. Edit: The tires from the factory are BF Goodrich rugged trail T/A.

I plan to replace all of them before winter gets here.

I run a lot of tires past 10 years old. Probably shouldn't. But I do.

I have quite a few cars, trailers, motorcycles etc.

Changing tires by the calendar would be cost prohibitive.

Some things that I feel will extend the life of a tire:

1. Proper inflation.

2. Keeping them out of the sun/UV rays.

I do make one exception. Trailer tires on my 5th wheel. I replaced them at 7 years old before I made the 2000 mile trip to Arizona.

When pulling a trailer like that and getting a flat, you may not know you have a flat until someone pulls along side you and points it out to you. By then the guts of the trailer may litter the road. NOT PRETTY.

If I was doing a lot of very high speed driving I would consider things a little more carefully.

Brian

I agree that changing tires by the calendar seems to be rather expensive...I regularly drive on older than six year tires.

And the six year recommendation seems to be rather arbitary.

If anyone has references that indicate why six years is the recommended time, I would like to see them.

TMT

Too_Many_Tools

08-17-2010, 11:24 AM

FWIW, I had a set of 4 new Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires put on my car in September of '06. The car had 72,600 miles on it then. Those tires right away struck me as being the nicest tires I've ever had on a car because they were quiet-riding, stuck like glue and were said to be a long-life tire. The car now has 133,000 miles on it, and those tires just passed the annual state inspection with no problem.

But, the tires need to go. The car sat from October until June with only one ride taken in March. There are the tell-tale small cracks of dried rubber in between the tread blocks, but the most obvious sign that they need replacing is the noise level. The tires sing so loud that I have to watch the tachometer to know what the motor is doing. Plus, it just doesn't ride as smooth as it once did, even though I had the local garage do a Hunter Road-Force Balance of all 4 tires in September.

Even though the tires appear to have another 15,000 to 20,000 miles left on the tread, they will be changed in the interest of safety and comfort.

I assume the higher noise level is due to the rubber getting harder...something a person could measure with a durometer.

The surface checking seems to me a good indicator.

The 20 year old tires I have mentioned do not show any checking.

The two failures of the 20 year tires have been in the sidewalls.,,not the face of the tires.

TMT

Farbmeister

08-18-2010, 12:27 AM

Its well known that under inflation and the heating of the sidewall will cause a failure.... but those failures are chunks flying off.. not just a loss of airtight integrity.

With run flats, low profiles etc I don't think you can make any statement as general as 'cracks == bad'.

But common sense (and people will even claim that isn't good enough :rolleyes: ) tells you that if the crack has a gone deep enough to make flap, or fully sperate, then yeah.. replace them.

My CCKW has plenty of sidewall cracks on the NDTs... I am not worried in the least.. those tire are like 3/4th an inch thick (better than an in on the thread) so some small 'crazing' give me no worries.

madokie

08-18-2010, 01:01 PM

my neighbor recently had a flat in his 98 caddy, put the doughnut spare on it ,started home got 1 mile and it blew out!!must have been too old.i bought a used 99 ram, it came with michelin tires @52K with about 3/4 tread, now 112K, still have about 20% read left, so yes people do get 80K from tires,but honestly ,they do look old on the sidewalls and if i had the money i would replace them,and cut sidewall with a knife.

Too_Many_Tools

08-18-2010, 01:20 PM

A story of interest...

A friend that lives in the southeast where they were flooded within the last year told me about a major brand tire store that had thousands of tires that were flooded.

When the cleanup came, the tires were hosed off, stacked in a parking lot...and then each one had a drill ran through it to destroy it.

The company would not accept the liability of selling the NEW tires that had been touched by the flood waters.

TMT

Dr Stan

08-21-2010, 04:48 PM

I was listening to Car Talk this morning and wondered if they may have an answer to this tire age question. So I went to their web site and lo and behold found this link: http://www.aa1car.com/library/tire_expire.htm

So here is some data based information, not just opinion.

Too_Many_Tools

08-21-2010, 06:03 PM

I was listening to Car Talk this morning and wondered if they may have an answer to this tire age question. So I went to their web site and lo and behold found this link: http://www.aa1car.com/library/tire_expire.htm

So here is some data based information, not just opinion.

Thanks for posting this...excellent info.

It seems to me that the industry is dragging their feet not wanting to have an expiration date for tires.

Your post gave me the clue that I was looking for...with the expiration date enforced the industry would not be able to stockpile tires...and their expenses would go up considerably.

While I would not be happy about having to toss NOS tires that are over six years old, I would be crazy to drive on ticking time bombs...and my insurance company would think much of it either.

Requiring motorists to use tires that are in date (less than six years old) looks like something that needs to happen.

TMT

Deja Vu

08-21-2010, 06:19 PM

jeesh! My 1988 chev van has original snow tires(radial) on the rear....but they are fine(as far as I an tell). My trailer has 16" car wheels and tires(tube) on it that are at least 40 years old. I just re-packed the bearings. My inspection didn't reveal any weaknesses. But now i feel like a road hazard!

Ken_Shea

08-21-2010, 06:20 PM

Oh my, that apparently now defunct private safety group,
(Government grant likely ran out) searched the world over and found an incredible 20 incidences of blown tires. I stop there, nonsense to even take that as serious statistical proof.

Would have loved to see the other 3 tires that did not fail, now I am sure they would have told a story.

Evan

08-21-2010, 08:53 PM

So they investigate 20 blowout accidents and fully one half result in fatalities? Bull.

doctor demo

08-21-2010, 09:17 PM

Requiring motorists to use tires that are in date (less than six years old) looks like something that needs to happen.

TMT

I can't even put into words how many levels of STUPIDthat is.

Steve

Too_Many_Tools

08-21-2010, 09:42 PM

I can't even put into words how many levels of STUPIDthat is.

Steve

If the day ever comes where your family is killed on the road because of an out of date tire, you will think differently.

Until then let your wife read this discussion and then ask her opinion of old tires.

TMT

Dr Stan

08-21-2010, 09:49 PM

Oh my, that apparently now defunct private safety group,
(Government grant likely ran out) searched the world over and found an incredible 20 incidences of blown tires. I stop there, nonsense to even take that as serious statistical proof.

Would have loved to see the other 3 tires that did not fail, now I am sure they would have told a story.

How about posting facts and data instead of a rant. :(

Your bias shows as badly as a worn out tire.

Too_Many_Tools

08-21-2010, 09:58 PM

Oh my, that apparently now defunct private safety group,
(Government grant likely ran out) searched the world over and found an incredible 20 incidences of blown tires. I stop there, nonsense to even take that as serious statistical proof.

Would have loved to see the other 3 tires that did not fail, now I am sure they would have told a story.

Their funding was more likely squashed (note the 2003 date) by the Bush Adminstration...Protector of Big Business.

But without their complete data, we do not know what they found other than what was stated in the letter.

TMT

Ken_Shea

08-21-2010, 10:00 PM

Mandating tire replacement should work well, you know, like making it illegal to drive drunk or under the influence, driving while your license is under suspension, with out insurance, or over the speed limit, yep, that'd work.

It will sooner or later come to mandatory replacement, that I have no doubt, in this world of an ever growing population of just keep me safe and protect me weenies.

Even in that exhaustive research from 2003 of the Private safety group, note none of the incidents cited mentioned any tires even close to 6 years old.

Ken_Shea

08-21-2010, 10:02 PM

Their funding was more likely squashed (note the 2003 date) by the Bush Adminstration...Protector of Big Business.

But without their complete data, we do not know what they found other than what was stated in the letter.

I have tires on my '53 that are at least 30 years old. I just drove my truck with those tires 700 miles. I depend on divine intervention a lot.

--Doozer

Ken_Shea

08-21-2010, 10:18 PM

How about posting facts and data instead of a rant. :(

Your bias shows as badly as a worn out tire.

True, I am biased to facts, my statements are based upon facts as I have experienced from many years in the field.
6 years is hog wash, else it would not be all that difficult for us to find current facts.
I have no idea what the passenger car blow outs per million miles driven percentage is, but my guess is it's lees then single digits.
Not sure what the Dr part of Dr Stan relates to but if it's the medical field it would be a dream come true for the medical profession to have similar success percentages.

Ken_Shea

08-21-2010, 10:21 PM

I have tires on my '53 that are at least 30 years old. I just drove my truck with those tires 700 miles. I depend on divine intervention a lot.

--Doozer

Lets hope he doesn't quit ;)

doctor demo

08-21-2010, 10:22 PM

If the day ever comes where your family is killed on the road because of an out of date tire, you will think differently.

Until then let your wife read this discussion and then ask her opinion of old tires.

TMT
I would bet that there are far more tires on the road at any given time that are older than 6 than under 6 years old. Magically at midnight on the tire's 6th birthday it becomes a killer? Pull Your Head Out Of Your Backside.

Steve

Too_Many_Tools

08-21-2010, 10:29 PM

True, I am biased to facts, my statements are based upon facts as I have experienced from many years in the field.
6 years is hog wash, else it would not be all that difficult for us to find current facts.
I have no idea what the passenger car blow outs per million miles driven percentage is, but my guess is it's lees then single digits.
Not sure what the Dr part of Dr Stan relates to but if it's the medical field it would be a dream come true for the medical profession to have similar success percentages.

That's right...you have no idea how big the problem is...nor do I.

That ignorance about a major component of ten of millions of cars meeting each other on the road each year should have you asking why don't we know.

And the fact that the industry is singing the "we don't know and we don't want to know" song is the same garbage that just led to the BP oil spill.

My guess is that we have been burying the mistakes of the tire industry.

TMT

Ken_Shea

08-21-2010, 10:44 PM

That's right...you have no idea how big the problem is...nor do I.

TMT

That is correct, yet I am not the one suggesting some radical change to motorist or the tire industry is appropriate based upon 20 incidents, or 30 or 40.

Perhaps rather then Bush having hid or the tire industry hiding a dangerous and significant issue like blow outs, could it be it's so insignificant that there is nothing really to hide?

Tires are man made, they can fail at any age.

Too_Many_Tools

08-21-2010, 11:08 PM

I would bet that there are far more tires on the road at any given time that are older than 6 than under 6 years old. Magically at midnight on the tire's 6th birthday it becomes a killer? Pull Your Head Out Of Your Backside.

Steve

*POP*...head out!

Hmm...now let's look at some numbers.

Average age of a car...9.4 years.

In March 2009, RL Polk released a study conducted between 2007 to 2008 which indicated that the median age of passenger cars in operation in the US increased to 9.4 years

For the industry, average passenger tire life has climbed from 24,000 miles in 1973 to about 47,000 miles today.

Okay..so it looks like an average car goes through a set of tires in about three years.

Three years is less than six years the last time I looked.

Now since we are talking average, there are examples running far newer tires and far older tires.

But the average..and likely the majority of the cars on the road have less than six year old tires on them.

Now if you have different numbers, let's see them.

Guesses don't count.

TMT

Too_Many_Tools

08-21-2010, 11:21 PM

That is correct, yet I am not the one suggesting some radical change to motorist or the tire industry is appropriate based upon 20 incidents, or 30 or 40.

Perhaps rather then Bush having hid or the tire industry hiding a dangerous and significant issue like blow outs, could it be it's so insignificant that there is nothing really to hide?

Tires are man made, they can fail at any age.

I agree Ken...because "we don't know" is the problem.

Having the previous Administration underfund/bury consumer agencies, the tire industry discouraging safety reseach/standards or an insignificant problem...which of those could get you and your family killed?

Over the last few years our area has had a significant number of traffic deaths where one car cross the divided medium and stuck another one.

Were tires a factor in the accident?

We don't know...we just bury the victums and drive on.

And from the earlier article it would seem that the industry is in no hurry to find out.

That is the distrubing part considering that you and I meet hundreds of cars each day on the road.

How old and how dangerous are their tires?

We don't know.

TMT

Evan

08-22-2010, 02:18 AM

Setting a six year (or any other time limit) expiry on a product such as tires is a lot like the 10 year mandatory valve replacement law on propane tanks. None of my tanks have ever leaked when the valve was required to be replaced. It's a nice liitle mandatory spending program that somebody in the industry convinced the law makers to put in place.

The lifetime of a tire is very dependent on environmental factors. Here tires are frozen or close to it for six months of the year. Rubber doesn't deteriorate when it is frozen and the sun isn't higher than a couple of hands above the horizon. Tires don't wear much on ice either. Setting a specific time limit on tire life is a one size fits nobody approach.

Too_Many_Tools

08-22-2010, 03:19 AM

Setting a six year (or any other time limit) expiry on a product such as tires is a lot like the 10 year mandatory valve replacement law on propane tanks. None of my tanks have ever leaked when the valve was required to be replaced. It's a nice liitle mandatory spending program that somebody in the industry convinced the law makers to put in place.

The lifetime of a tire is very dependent on environmental factors. Here tires are frozen or close to it for six months of the year. Rubber doesn't deteriorate when it is frozen and the sun isn't higher than a couple of hands above the horizon. Tires don't wear much on ice either. Setting a specific time limit on tire life is a one size fits nobody approach.

LOL...good one.

I am not comfortable with the elapsed time approach either.

I would consider it to be better if there were a built in indicator that would clearly indicate when a tire was unsafe from aging.

I have a set of wiper blades that have a UV indicator built in...it changes color when the rubber in the blades is hardened and needs replacing.

You might want to consider that the LP tank requirement has met its design requirements..whether it is worth the cost is debatable...how much is a human life worth?

TMT

Too_Many_Tools

08-22-2010, 03:29 AM

FYI...

Another good article.

Be sure to read the last portions of it...especially if you are a lawyer.

I would consider it to be better if there were a built in indicator that would clearly indicate when a tire was unsafe from aging.

I have a set of wiper blades that have a UV indicator built in...it changes color when the rubber in the blades is hardened and needs replacing.

You might want to consider that the LP tank requirement has met its design requirements..whether it is worth the cost is debatable...how much is a human life worth?

TMT

An interesting patent...

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7180409.html

TMT

Evan

08-22-2010, 05:20 AM

how much is a human life worth?

That depends on the potential liability claims that will result from loss of life. If the claims are less than the cost of insurance then the value of a life is easily calculated. A human life is cheap. Made at home by unskilled labour and fed nearly anything. The only intrinsic value that can be placed on a human life is measured by how much others care about it and are willing to spend. In many cases it is zero. In other cases the cost of a life can be measured on the number of human lives required to defend just one. In yet other cases the cost may be measured in the number that expire based on the resources consumed by just one.

What it cannot be measured by is the statistics of hazard. Hazards always exist and cannot be eliminated. Anything that has an economic cost or saving always costs lives at some point. Trying to eliminate hazards is a pointless and impossible exercise. Educating people in the existence of hazards is much less pointless but almost as impossible.

Dr Stan

08-22-2010, 10:41 AM

That depends on the potential liability claims that will result from loss of life. If the claims are less than the cost of insurance then the value of a life is easily calculated. A human life is cheap. Made at home by unskilled labour and fed nearly anything. The only intrinsic value that can be placed on a human life is measured by how much others care about it and are willing to spend. In many cases it is zero. In other cases the cost of a life can be measured on the number of human lives required to defend just one. In yet other cases the cost may be measured in the number that expire based on the resources consumed by just one.

Evan,

To say I'm disappointed with this world view is an extreme understatement. I for one will never accept the bean counting view of placing a monetary value on human life, or the life of an individual human. This goes against the grain of my values.

Stan

Dr Stan

08-22-2010, 10:44 AM

Not sure what the Dr part of Dr Stan relates to but if it's the medical field it would be a dream come true for the medical profession to have similar success percentages.

No I am not a physician as I have an earned doctorate, not a professional degree such as one earns in the fields of medicine or law. You also show contempt and bigotry for those who have made the effort to become highly educated.

Too_Many_Tools

08-22-2010, 01:14 PM

Another thought...

Since companies do accelerated lifespan testing with higher temperatures and oxygen, would filling a tire with nitrogen lead to extended lifespans for tires?

And keeping your extra tires in the freezer? ;<)

TMT

Evan

08-22-2010, 01:23 PM

To say I'm disappointed with this world view is an extreme understatement. I for one will never accept the bean counting view of placing a monetary value on human life, or the life of an individual human. This goes against the grain of my values.

I didn't say it was my personal ideology. It is a realistic appraisal of the current underlying social standards. Few will admit to it but many practice it.

I for one will never accept the bean counting view of placing a monetary value on human life,

Do you have life insurance?

doctor demo

08-22-2010, 01:24 PM

would filling a tire with nitrogen lead to extended lifespans for tires?
TMT

Aircraft and many drag race car tires are inflated with nitrogen, and have been for years.

Steve

Dr Stan

08-22-2010, 01:55 PM

Another thought...

Since companies do accelerated lifespan testing with higher temperatures and oxygen, would filling a tire with nitrogen lead to extended lifespans for tires

I doubt it as the atmosphere is approx 78% nitrogen. Go to: http://mistupid.com/chemistry/aircomp.htm

Too_Many_Tools

08-22-2010, 02:05 PM

I doubt it as the atmosphere is approx 78% nitrogen. Go to: http://mistupid.com/chemistry/aircomp.htm

That is my thinking...but again to accelerate aging companies use oxygen.

TMT

Evan

08-22-2010, 02:39 PM

The point of filling with nitrogen in aircraft tires is to exclude the oxygen. It serves two purposes. It prevents aging and since the aging is the result of the oxygen combining with the materials inside the tire using nitrogen also prevents pressure loss.

gary350

08-22-2010, 05:14 PM

My son got a vehicle when he turned 16 he drove it too school and back home 2 miles every day 5 days a week.

Then he got into trade school drove about 10 miles a day 5 days a week.

Then he went away to college drove 30 miles to college once a week left the vehicle parks in campus parking the whole week.

Senior year he was on his way home 70 mph on the interstate 24 when the back tire exploded like bomb. Tires were 10 years old but they all looked like they were hardly used.

Just because the tire has lots of good rubber left does not mean is it still good and safe to drive.

Too_Many_Tools

08-22-2010, 05:43 PM

The point of filling with nitrogen in aircraft tires is to exclude the oxygen. It serves two purposes. It prevents aging and since the aging is the result of the oxygen combining with the materials inside the tire using nitrogen also prevents pressure loss.

I am aware of a person who stores his expensive tires in old chest freezers...below zero...and in an argon atmosphere.

TMT

Too_Many_Tools

08-22-2010, 05:45 PM

My son got a vehicle when he turned 16 he drove it too school and back home 2 miles every day 5 days a week.

Then he got into trade school drove about 10 miles a day 5 days a week.

Then he went away to college drove 30 miles to college once a week left the vehicle parks in campus parking the whole week.

Senior year he was on his way home 70 mph on the interstate 24 when the back tire exploded like bomb. Tires were 10 years old but they all looked like they were hardly used.

Just because the tire has lots of good rubber left does not mean is it still good and safe to drive.

If he had been on a two lane highway meeting another car when it occurred, do you think he would be alive today?

TMT

Ken_Shea

08-22-2010, 07:15 PM

No I am not a physician as I have an earned doctorate, not a professional degree such as one earns in the fields of medicine or law. You also show contempt and bigotry for those who have made the effort to become highly educated.

While it is true I am generally not impressed by someones "Highly educated" status, you most definitely have assumed wrong, generally, that bigotry and contempt is what is true on their part, coupled with a rather large ego. I do not hold them in high esteem simply based upon their education, that position is based upon their character and principles.

Evan

08-22-2010, 08:43 PM

Just because the tire has lots of good rubber left does not mean is it still good and safe to drive.

There is also no reason to assume that the age of the tire had anything to do with the failure. It may have been underinflated because of a leak caused by a road hazard a few minutes earlier. It may have been damaged by hitting a pothole at some earlier time. A sidewall may have been damaged by scrubbing a high curb. It may even have been vandalized.

bborr01

08-22-2010, 09:14 PM

Trying to eliminate hazards is a pointless and impossible exercise. .

Evan,

Could you re-phrase that so that I can make some sense of it.

I would think that in the process of trying to eliminate hazards, the hazards could be at least greatly reduced.

Changing from goggles to windshields in cars may not have eliminated all hazards from entering a car, but has reduced them dramatically. (I have yet to be hit in the face by a bird while driving a car but have been hit on a motorcycle)

Also guards on machinery, from punch presses to lawnmowor housings.

I could build you a lawnmower with just a frame and no shroud but it might be a little dangerous no matter how smart the operator is.:eek:

Brian

Ken_Shea

08-22-2010, 09:14 PM

My son got a vehicle when he turned 16 he drove it too school and back home 2 miles every day 5 days a week.

Then he got into trade school drove about 10 miles a day 5 days a week.

Then he went away to college drove 30 miles to college once a week left the vehicle parks in campus parking the whole week.

Senior year he was on his way home 70 mph on the interstate 24 when the back tire exploded like bomb. Tires were 10 years old but they all looked like they were hardly used.

Just because the tire has lots of good rubber left does not mean is it still good and safe to drive.

Gary, since your son was apparently not hurt I am going to have a little fun here and suggest that the tire that blew was the drive tire, ain't no way a 16 year old is going to drive that many miles and not have the tread wore to nothing from spinning the tires, no way :D

Evan

08-23-2010, 12:09 AM

Could you re-phrase that so that I can make some sense of it.

I meant exactly what I wrote. The elimination of hazards is impossible. Reducing hazard IS possible but the moment you take that approach then you have no choice but to assign a value to human life. Of necessity decisions must be made about which hazards can be reduced economically and which cannot.

Too_Many_Tools

08-23-2010, 02:05 AM

I meant exactly what I wrote. The elimination of hazards is impossible. Reducing hazard IS possible but the moment you take that approach then you have no choice but to assign a value to human life. Of necessity decisions must be made about which hazards can be reduced economically and which cannot.

I agree and understand.

But the cold truth is if one loses a loved one due to being a victum of a calculated hazard the pain will be just as great.

So in terms of tires, how do you get safe economical tires when it is evident that the industry doesn't want to address the safety issues?

TMT

oldbikerdude37

08-23-2010, 02:22 AM

I agree and understand.

So in terms of tires, how do you get safe economical tires when it is evident that the industry doesn't want to address the safety issues?

TMT

where do you get this goofy idea? They want to sell you new tires.

Too_Many_Tools

08-23-2010, 11:58 AM

where do you get this goofy idea? They want to sell you new tires.

LOL...yeah I thought so too.

So why isn't the industry pushing an expiration date on tires where they are required to be replaced...and they make another sale?

The answer that makes most sense to me is that it would mean that they would not be able to stockpile tires...and that would mean they would have to increase manufacturing capacity to keep the retail channel full of product in a timely manner...and it would likely mean big expenses for them.

I wonder if anyone is checking to see if the date codes on tires are accurate...it would be easy for a manufacturer to set the date ahead making the tire appear to be even newer than it is.

And chinese tires...they wouldn't try to cut a corner like this, would they?