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Then there are the Torchwood and NuWho complications of the Tardii being spaceborne coral creatures carved for use. With them flipping back and forwards between it being a sentient "she" to a highly tempermental sentient AI "it".

From the Eye of Harmony being on Gallifrey and the corresponding room on the TARDIS being an energy receptor, to it being a literal Eye on the ship, that between the Tenth Doctor (TARDIS running out of power, Eye useless) to having a newly implaced 'permanently dying' (WTH even?) star somehow installed by the Doctor alone.

Which either needs a new second, larger "bigger on the inside" pocket dimension nearly 1 AU in size, or some funky spatial compression to make everything smaller, requiring a new massive room to accomodate it. (Shown in JttCotT console to be much larger than even the engine room).

So it's either a living entity of finite size with cybernetic implants early in it's life, the Replicator Tree from 'Journey' allowing it to use the Eye's energy to materialise new rooms in hours. Coupled with near infinite ability to create new pocket dimensions.

Or a machine through and through using it to build more of itself, including the ability to accomodate an entire star and it's habitable (ish) zone inside as needed.

Better to just say "magic" and leave it.

Well, I tend to take the tact that the ship itself is a construct of living metal. It's interior dimension is a single pocket universe within itself. Being made of living metal means it can also act as a transmitter for vibrational waves, needing no central area for additional room generation, since it can broadcast that signal throughout it's entire structure, not to mention communication signals, and openings to the main entrance section outer plasmic shell (via River song's fall in the pool) to any other area desired. the eye of harmony I am okay with that being a source of unlimited energy, but that infinite energy being needed to support the Dimension, and not directly related to fueling the engines themselves. I mean if you are going to create an artificial pocket universe with near infinite energy, then that will pretty much take up most of that considering the infinite nature of the dimensional pocket, and the fact that you have to allocate time from the beginning of that dimension to it's end of existence, which means an additional source is needed to fuel those engines.

infinite not meaning infinitely allocated to all aspects of the ship. I think that the coral is a mask, or chameleon form of the living metal, or maybe a base material, which resides within each architectural configuration holding orbs. Coral was and still is of actual canon just part of the architectural configuration for the console room desk top, and since that part of the show where the meta crisis doctor receiving coral to build his own, was never really aired, I tend to see that as just "magic Coral" which isn't truly real, IMHO. I have spent the last 10 years or so studying physics, and reading anything I can on electromagnetism, and gravity, and particle physics, not to mention researching Doctor who classic, and the theories of others online..etc..etc.

My point is that I am applying real world physics to this endeavor, and though I am happy to hear that same old and rather over used phrase once more "magic Box" as a scifi fan, and not a fantasy fan, I prefer the practical approach to Doctor Who, rather then the oblivious. I want to believe what I see, and can not bring myself to just count it as simply a good story.

__________________
" We will ascend, to become creatures of consciousness alone. Free of these bodies, free of time, and cause and effect, while creation itself ceases to be.." -Lord President Rassilon

Hm, a nanite/liqui-metal combination forming itself into a coral like network to form the basis of the entire structure would still fit. I just thought it was interesting that the Radio Times teased the baby Tardis sapling taken from the first one. As really, although it's a baby now, when it achieves adulthood it could travel back, they could have had a Jack from the future turning up with the offspring Tardis. They still might lol.

Something as large and complex (and old) as the Tardis with advanced enough AI could achieve some form of sentience either way.

It's the "permanently dying" star that annoys me, as if it's on the verge of becoming a singularity, the amount of power needed to hold a star about to supernova is probably more than the thing is giving out, and gravitationally very hard to compensate for when inside an already carefully crafted spacetime pocket.

__________________"But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake."

Since TARDIS is an acronym: the AP standard for pluralizing an acronym ending in "s" is to use apostrophe-s, hence TARDIS's.

Really? Hmm. I never heard that before. I thought it was never appropriate to use an apostrophe for a plural.

Apparently, MLA says no apostrophe with an acronym, and Turabian allows it only if the acronym contains periods or a mix of capital and lowercase letters. Apparently there are differing conventions, though. The Wikipedia entry says that for abbreviations ending in S, one can use either -'s or -es.

Although it could be argued that "Tardis" has become a word in its own right regardless of its acronymic origins, like radar, scuba, or laser. (Or Taser, a brand name that's actually short for "Thomas A. Swift's Electric Rifle," an in-joke reference to the old Tom Swift adventure stories.) So it would be pluralized like any other English word, as "Tardises." Which is the form actually used in the show, in episodes like "Logopolis," "Time Crash" (if that can be called an episode), "Journey's End," and "The Doctor's Wife."

Hm, a nanite/liqui-metal combination forming itself into a coral like network to form the basis of the entire structure would still fit.

Hmm, that is actually a neat Idea. I like that. Though I would see that nanite structure forming a coral like substance as more of a lattice like structure similar to the new and widely celebrated carbon nano tubing..which apparently has a natural tendency to form hexagonal truncated forms, which makes it extremely durable and strong.

Chemahkuu wrote:

I just thought it was interesting that the Radio Times teased the baby Tardis sapling taken from the first one. As really, although it's a baby now, when it achieves adulthood it could travel back, they could have had a Jack from the future turning up with the offspring Tardis. They still might lol.

Something as large and complex (and old) as the Tardis with advanced enough AI could achieve some form of sentience either way.

It's the "permanently dying" star that annoys me, as if it's on the verge of becoming a singularity, the amount of power needed to hold a star about to supernova is probably more than the thing is giving out, and gravitationally very hard to compensate for when inside an already carefully crafted spacetime pocket.

Well when it comes to the permanently dying star, there are ways to modify that to keep it in stasis. If you take for example the Higgs Boson which controls mass, and if the time lords figured out how to modify the quantum strings that comprise all matter, then it would make sense that they could use the Failing star's own gravity against it as a feed back of sorts to hold it in orbit where ever they liked.. modifying the Higgs field around such an object would make it extremely easy to carry off, especially if you took away 99% of it's mass. Or you used the time dilation effect of space time coupled with the energy derived from that failing star, they could make it suspend itself in time. The key to their experiments was definitely figuring that out. A singularity would be too strong to control, and even with taking the nucleus out of the centre of a failing sun, and suspending it indefinitely, that would need an enormous amount of quantum trickery to hold it stable and keep that energy flow coming, in relation to the size of the star's mass.

that mini copy of the original eye of Harmony though quite large in the Tardis, is no where near the scale and size of the actual version they originally took. It was a mathematical model based on the original, which was then set up by a catalyst, and then fed energy directly from the original eye, while being created through block math computation via vibrational signals effecting quantum strings, creating the particles according to the mathematical formula derived from the original eye. To me, it is possible..just not entirely confident of how...........YET...

Christopher wrote:

BigJake wrote:

Since TARDIS is an acronym: the AP standard for pluralizing an acronym ending in "s" is to use apostrophe-s, hence TARDIS's.

Really? Hmm. I never heard that before. I thought it was never appropriate to use an apostrophe for a plural.

Apparently, MLA says no apostrophe with an acronym, and Turabian allows it only if the acronym contains periods or a mix of capital and lowercase letters. Apparently there are differing conventions, though. The Wikipedia entry says that for abbreviations ending in S, one can use either -'s or -es.

Although it could be argued that "Tardis" has become a word in its own right regardless of its acronymic origins, like radar, scuba, or laser. (Or Taser, a brand name that's actually short for "Thomas A. Swift's Electric Rifle," an in-joke reference to the old Tom Swift adventure stories.) So it would be pluralized like any other English word, as "Tardises." Which is the form actually used in the show, in episodes like "Logopolis," "Time Crash" (if that can be called an episode), "Journey's End," and "The Doctor's Wife."

what if the acronym was what susan made up, and the actual name, like car, boat, etc.. is really TARDIS, then Tardises would be the appropriate plural name, err.. I think?? right??

__________________
" We will ascend, to become creatures of consciousness alone. Free of these bodies, free of time, and cause and effect, while creation itself ceases to be.." -Lord President Rassilon

Actually before I found out what the actual acronym meant, when I was like 11.. I came up with this:

TARDIS

TimeArranging (references to the rooms and the outer plasmic Shell dematerializing)Re-Arranging (same reference to re-materialization, and reformatting the interiorDimensionalInter-DimensionalSubsystem-like a subway transport system, or subsystem of travel outside the normal spaceship..

LOL

__________________
" We will ascend, to become creatures of consciousness alone. Free of these bodies, free of time, and cause and effect, while creation itself ceases to be.." -Lord President Rassilon

what if the acronym was what susan made up, and the actual name, like car, boat, etc.. is really TARDIS, then Tardises would be the appropriate plural name, err.. I think?? right??

Well, if it really were a Gallifreyan word, then who knows how they form their plurals? But as an English word, Tardises or TARDISes would be right in any case -- and it is what they use on the show.

Speaking of back-forming acronyms, not long ago a pair of theoretical physicists came up with a relativistically valid mathematical model for a type of time warp which they called a Traversable Achronal Retrograde Domain In Spacetime. Here's their paper on the subject:

kay, I need forum help here.. which version of tardis dimensional bubble should I use? the one above or this robust full version??

I think that this illustration is inspired. It's beautiful, so my vote is to include this one for sure.

I am happy someone finally voted! thanks. that's one down for the full version.

Christopher wrote:

starsuperion wrote:

what if the acronym was what susan made up, and the actual name, like car, boat, etc.. is really TARDIS, then Tardises would be the appropriate plural name, err.. I think?? right??

Well, if it really were a Gallifreyan word, then who knows how they form their plurals? But as an English word, Tardises or TARDISes would be right in any case -- and it is what they use on the show.

Speaking of back-forming acronyms, not long ago a pair of theoretical physicists came up with a relativistically valid mathematical model for a type of time warp which they called a Traversable Achronal Retrograde Domain In Spacetime. Here's their paper on the subject:

__________________
" We will ascend, to become creatures of consciousness alone. Free of these bodies, free of time, and cause and effect, while creation itself ceases to be.." -Lord President Rassilon

Here is the cover for the book. Page 5 of the book is coming later today. The real stuff is going to be the technical plans, and such.. all this stuff was pretty much the basics for the new Whovian reader to start off with..

__________________
" We will ascend, to become creatures of consciousness alone. Free of these bodies, free of time, and cause and effect, while creation itself ceases to be.." -Lord President Rassilon

I'm not even a Doctor Who fan, and these are f-king awesome. Congrats!

THANKS MAN! I hope you like the rest I will be putting out. Page 5 is next!

I was just let know by Kasterborous (I think the website owner??) that my front page said Blueprints, and Tardises have Greyprints.. LOL! I just made that change to my cover page above.. sorry bout that guys/ladies.

__________________
" We will ascend, to become creatures of consciousness alone. Free of these bodies, free of time, and cause and effect, while creation itself ceases to be.." -Lord President Rassilon

With a TARDIS being made from Validium, a living metal.. what if Omega was able to get that, forging a new body from the essential DNA material of a TARDIS.. he would be like a TARDIS, and all he would need then is a control mechanism to use with his form, and could move through time and space without a vortex manipulator..control mechanism on his belt..also he has rings, which are resurrection devices, I think he gave one to the Master.. or the Master gave that tech to him..

Here's a pic I did based on just that, and what he might have looked like if given a resurrected body during the time war..

My hypothesis is that Omega is the Could'vebeenking.. his army of meanwhiles and never weres are temporal shadows of fallen time lords subverted (never weres), and Timelord disciples (meanwhiles) of his who sought to subvert Gallifreyan order for his eternal leadership..just my theory..

__________________
" We will ascend, to become creatures of consciousness alone. Free of these bodies, free of time, and cause and effect, while creation itself ceases to be.." -Lord President Rassilon

__________________
" We will ascend, to become creatures of consciousness alone. Free of these bodies, free of time, and cause and effect, while creation itself ceases to be.." -Lord President Rassilon

For those technologically minded, and those with a working knowledge of Physics and quantum string theory..Of which I have studied for the better part of 12 years, all the while applying what I learned over time to the problem of using real world solutions and physics to solve the nature of the the TARDIS..

Here are my workings on how they formed the Tardis, and the eye of harmony.. basically here is how it goes..

Quite simply put, what happens is the time lord engineers, have discovered by using the original eye of harmony, what the exact quantum mathematical formula is of the vibrations measured in quantum strings and the particles that exist within it's own structure. by making a copy of this, and the higgs bosons which control mass, they are able to reconstruct with a catalyst set of particles, a copy of the eye, in miniature format. by using gravity, via the higgs field generated by the original, they can then warp space and fold it back in on itself into a bubble dimension. almost sealed off, until they use the quantum foam structure of the remaining aperture or opening to the bubble as the bridge into the dimension. they then add the living metal format, which is grown within the dimension, around the eye as it's forming. Using this power source, it then constructs the basic structure necessary for the ship to function via the architectural configuration system. this happens via it's mathematical preloaded data, and creates it's engine, and architectural reconfiguration room, and basic master control console all from it's own power source. once that is completed, the time column is calibrated according to the multidimensional temporal coordinates given, and the Tardis internal structure begins to grow based on the machine codes of it's basic designs of it's greyprint models. In order to keep the micro universe stable these basic constructs are set in stone, and must be in place to maintain the micro-universe/dimension (dimension is the scifi sense and not meaning dimensions as in spatial). These basic core systems can exist without time allocation as they will just keep to themselves, until the time console and time column creates effective time, which creates existence for the occupant to occupy in linear format.

back to the journal notes..

it is this way, through particle integration of the Quantum Foam of the micro bubble universe, that they mean, "mapping" the exterior on to the interior..The Tardis has a knob on the console called a Quantum Foam manipulator, which works in conjunction with the ship's dimension, and the exterior shell

this bubble of course still has an access point, which is then built in on a molecular level to the ship's shell, via blockmath computation, and particle assimilation with the fabric of spacetime, Quantum foam, being integrated into the internal doorway, and plasmic shell. This also gives the access a real world event to gain entry into the interior dimension, along with dark energy and dark matter particles which also aide in keeping the internal bubble expanded, once time is allocated.. it's not simply time that keeps the dimension stable, but it's all a combination of things together that allow such a micro-universe to exist on it's own, and still be collapsible. to a certain extent. for the Tardis to generate matter, it would need access to the raw materials and particles, which it can do through what's already there, and what it can derive from real Space

The creation of the TARDIS dimension itself is expanded by allocating time, which causes SPACE to expand to accommodate time (see the Doctor WHO Movie 1960's), which creates in effect existence. This allocation of time is also how the Doctor can reduce Space and collapse the Dimension, because the Time column Is what dictates such allocations of time. When the 3rd Doctor removes the Time Column and console from the interior dimensions, the rest of the ship ceased to be, because no time was allocated to the interior to create the existence. In essence the Interior essentials of the ship still exist in their own dimension because the EYE of HARMONY is infinite power, it was not accessible to the interior of the outer plasmic shell, once the Time Column and console were removed. When that occurred, the rest of the ship's interior dimensions, and rooms ceased to be, but the core engine, and Eye of Harmony, and Architectural Configuration room still exist as they are tied to the outer plasmic shell, which is the DOORWAY to those essential sections.

When the 3rd Doctor re-allocated time to the dimension, and reconnected the console to the console room, he then could input a new internal configuration and create via machine code, and block math computation, fed to the Architectural configuration system, which in tern generates a vibrational field, which manipulates the particles on a quantum string level, and generates matter according to the math given to it. The console works in conjunction with this system by allocating time, which expands space to accommodate time, because time-space are essentially one, and this is how Trans-Dimensional engineering works. once time is allocated to the Dimension, it also is allocated to the other previous sections of the TARDIS that existed before, and those that exist in the future simultaneously, via the infinite nature of the EYE of HARMONY.

The TARDIS interior dimension must exist at all times as an entire package for it to work, like a universe with a start and end. So when time is allocated to the Dimension to make it a functional reality, time MUST also be allocated to the Beginning of the ship's existence, and all the way up to the end of it's existence. The Doctor just dwells in portions of the TARDIS time allocations, and configurations at particular linear events.

__________________
" We will ascend, to become creatures of consciousness alone. Free of these bodies, free of time, and cause and effect, while creation itself ceases to be.." -Lord President Rassilon

Much in the way the Tardis is formed, using quantum vibrational signatures in mathematical format, the same too is true of the Sonic screw driver. Using sound waves to move objects is a very real scientific discovery, however, the sonic screw driver uses it in a different way. What the Sonic screw driver really is, is a vibrational wave-form manipulator, whereby sound, because it is in an atmosphere, is used in conjunction with a vibrational mathematical formula, which is emitted to effect a 3 dimensional object at the quantum string level, and thus can manipulate solid matter on a small scale. It's power source is much smaller then that of the eye of harmony, so it's effects on solid matter are exponentially reduced in comparison to the architectural configuration room of the tardis. This relegates it to electronic manipulations, and door locks mostly. Much in the same way a TARDIS can reformat it's interior, by using it's own Validium (living Metal) shell as a vast antenna, the sonic screw driver can emit through it's casing a sound/vibrational wave directed at an object, and encoded within that sound are specific wave form vibrations calibrated to the molecular structure of the object it Is intended to be used with. These calculations can be done within it's own internal memory, (though if near the Tardis it can draw those calculations of the target matter from wireless transmission and data download, greatly improving it's processing speed) and is obtained by a simple scan of the object. See, the doctor who 50th Anniversary special, as the three Doctor's attempt to disintegrate a wooden door.

So yes, the Timelord science of using Sonic technology is there, however it is merely an overlay on the quantum Vibrational technology used to effect real matter.

__________________
" We will ascend, to become creatures of consciousness alone. Free of these bodies, free of time, and cause and effect, while creation itself ceases to be.." -Lord President Rassilon