What people see her, besides Travis and Harry? I hardly think that counts as "lots of people".

Lisa WAS a real person, but the Lisa we encounter in SH1 is not the real one.

_________________"I dreamt last night I saw youA single spark explosion negotiating with the deadBy the bright lights in some ICU on my chest you put your headand said "There you are.There you are.There's my heart..."

Is right that CLimax have made errors with some memos... here you get a file talking about Samael as the God and all of we finally accpeted that this name was a lie of Dahlia... In another file they talk about God so I think they weren't careful about this aspect...

So you haven't considered the possibility that the person who wrote the memo was a character who believed Dahlia's lie, or they were misinformed entirely, and Dahlia decided to use that name later to trick Harry?

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What people see her, besides Travis and Harry? I hardly think that counts as "lots of people".

Like...everyone.

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Lisa WAS a real person, but the Lisa we encounter in SH1 is not the real one.

100% Agreed. Someone claimed that Lisa was an absolute fabrication from the get-go, though.

About the play, I would definitely say that was Alessa and not Lisa who saw it.
I read in other places in this forum that parts of the game were scrapped, and I feel that shows near the end. It really feels like we lost a chunk of the game between the motel and the end. It was just too abrupt, not to mention that Travis usually woke up wherever he passed out, but not with the motel. It felt like they had a nice flow going on and then it just jumped.
I can get behind the whole Lisa was hot theory considering that in SH1, she starts to
[spoiler]bleed from the head once she finds out she is dead.[/spoiler]
I said this in a similar thread, and I will say it again.
[spoiler]It makes sense if you think about it that Lisa was sleeping with Kauffman in Origins. At the beginning of the first game, their argument could have been that she was not going to sleep with him anymore, that she was not going to take the drugs anymore, and that she would not just sit back and let them abuse Alessa anymore.[/spoiler]
That is just my theory, not a fact.

Sorry about the necropost, I was directed by a mod to this thread. And While it seems to me this thread was originally about Lisa being fan-service, and not having a place in the overall story of Origins, this thread seems like a place as good as any from me to state my thoughts.

In the last couple of days, I had seen a sitload of comments about Lisa in SHO being completely different then Lisa in SH1, and frankly, I couldnâ€™t disagree more.

Fans claim Lisa wasnâ€™t a flirt in SH1. How do they know that? In SH1 Lisa was scared as hell, she had no time to think about that sort of thing. Andrew is SH4 was a child beating asshole, but you couldnâ€™t tell that just by looking at him, due to the fact he was shitting his pants.

Lisa is also the only character in SH1 who constantly tries to engage in physical contact with Harry. Once she had thrown herself in his arms, her smile wasnâ€™t an apologetic one, it was seductive, â€œHellooo handsomeâ€ kind of look. She also took his hands once, and stayed close to him, more so then Cybil, Kaufmann and Dahlia ever did.

So for all we know, she wanted to seduce Harry, she just wasnâ€™t managing due to being scared shitless.

Lisa was horribly depressed and an intrevent ideaâ€¦ Actually, the booklet describes Lisa as an ordinarily cheerful and happy woman. She is seen laughing in the intro, seeming genuinely content. She is also seen smiling and laughing in at least two concept art pictures. She was unable to be cheerful in SH1 though, because, again, she was scared for her life, in Origins however, she was not.

Lisa was only sad when she was having withdrawals and when she was carrying for Alessa. Which bring me to another point.

Lisa was in love with her job, because she loved helping people and because she was so kind ideaâ€¦

â€œWHY?! What is keeping that child alive?! I canâ€™t stand it any longerâ€¦â€

So much for that, then. I wasnâ€™t at all surprised to see she wanted fame and fortune, rather then healing the sick.

Lisa was kind and selfless in SH1, but a bitch in SH0- Iâ€™m not seeing it. Lisa in SH1 didnâ€™t care much about Harryâ€™s search for Cheryl, nor did she empathize with it all that much, not like Cybil did, she was more concerned for her own ass.

Sure she was being nice to Harry on several occasions (Harry, let me help you) but she was still worrying about her safety more. Did she want to help him out of kindness, or out of fear sheâ€™ll lose her only protection?

In Origins, Lisa was perfectly kind. She attempted to comfort Travis when she though he knew Alessa, and she was shown to be emotional, so much so, she was crying over a fate of a complete stranger.

While you can interpret the theater encounter as cruel, I saw it more as playful. It was nothing like what Cynthia did to Walter, Lisa never called Travis disgusting, she just seemed giddy and sweet â€œSee ya aroundâ€. It was joke, perhaps one of a bad taste, but hardly of a cruel intent. Lisa was shown as kind in both SH1 and SHO, but she was also shown as a selfish person in nature.

So, did I miss anything?

Maybe the â€œLisa stole Cherylâ€ idea. That one was dumb since SH1, if you paid some attention to Lisaâ€™s diary and the videotape, youâ€™d know that Lisa knew nothing about god, or how Alessa came to be in such state, so she would have had no motivation to steal babies and dump them at sides of the road.

â€œLisa and Kauffman never had a romantic-non-professional-relationship everâ€ â€“ No one said they didnâ€™t in the SH1, so the possibility was still opened. Besides, they already had a non-professional-relationship, seeing as he was her drug provider. Also, if Lisa and Kaufmann didnâ€™t know one another all that well, why would he have chose her to take care of Alessa, and why would he provide her with drugs? That already speaks of them having some sort of a relationship. Further more, that scene in the intro, did it really seem like a professional dialogue to you? There was anger, passion and dominance there. Hardly a ordinary argument between two coworkers about the working-conditions.

â€œAlessa and Lisa were BFFâ€™sâ€ â€“ No, no they werenâ€™t. Lisa knew next to nothing about Alessa, due to the fact Alessa was in coma, and therefore unable to talk and make friends. In game evidence suggests that Lisa was disgusted by Alessa and her condition. Alessa thought fondly of Lisa because since the burning, Lisa was the only kind presence Alessa felt in her life. She changed her bandages and cleaned her up, bringing some small relief to Alessaâ€™s never ending pain. But they were hardly what one would call friends.

Sorry for the long-ass post. I was just trying to cover all of my bases. I want you guys to know that I do like Lisaâ€™s character, I found her compelling and beautifully human. Thatâ€™s the point, I wouldnâ€™t have liked her if she was as much of a Mary-Sue, chastit saint her fans portray her as.

She was a great character, because she was flawed and human. And her portrayal is one of the few things Origins did right.

hmm... I don't know whether it is considered canon or not... but the play novel makes out that Lisa and Alessa were very close, to say the least. Lisa in fact, secretly sneaked Alessa diary that she could write out her thoughts in.

This also seems to state that Alessa was not comatose all the time she was confined in the hospital... so Lisa and Alessa were able to converse and chat and build a relationship.

"Eyes don't open, getting a pulse, but just barely breathing... Her skin is all charred!"

Seems to indicate she's out of it to me.

Furthermore she's in a coma during the flash-back with Dahlia, Kauffman and two doctors. One of them refers to Alessa as a "husk", indicating they think she's a brain-dead piece of hamburger-meat.

Plus, Lisa is clueless "Too weird, still alive but with wounds that don't heal" â€“ If Alessa was awake, she would have told Lisa why that is, and what has happened to her. "So, yeah, I can't die 'cause I carry a god in my belly, and I don't heal 'cause my bitch mom threw some fucked up spell so that I would call the other half of my soul... Speaking of that, I split my soul in to two, ain't that awesome? Too bad that if I summon her, I'll give birth to god and we'll all die in it's hellfire. Kill me now plz?"

So no, she really was in a coma.

Also, Play Novel is not canon, it indicates that Alessa, before merging with Cheryl had the ability to astral-project herself outside of the otherworld and outside of SH, she actually came to Cheryl and talked to her, even Andy saw Alessa. So, in PN, Cheryl was fully aware of Alessa, in game, she was not, rendering the PN as non-canon.

Besides if Alessa had that kind of power, why would she need Cheryl in the first place? Fuck, she could have gotten to police or something. Play Novel was stupid.

She was in a comma!? Those cursed periods with tails? My god, Alessa's situation just gets worse and worse.

j/k

Yes, what you said makes sense. I guess I just didn't think it out. The play novel is real fucked up anyway.

I'm just going to tell myself that Lisa read to her and felt bad for her situation. Lisa had to be kind because that was her job, but Alessa must have taken it the wrong way.

but while Alessa was in a coma, I would say that she had to be lucid dreaming (she was asleep, but aware of the fact she was dreaming and able to effect things in the dream and see things outside of it too.) Therefore she could have saw what was happening to Lisa, and brought her back to get her revenge on a certain someone. Plus, the world that was built around her seems to be constructed with a purpose in mind. The puzzles, the monsters... it's like she was trying to build a wall between her and Harry that just screamed "go back, you don't know what you're doing! leave me alone to die!" That's just my interpretation of course.

Yea, but considering the context, what with her coma and all, I'm thinking it's probably a bit more literal than you're trying to sell it. Besides, in that particular scene, Dahlia's being pretty blunt and to the point about everything.

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I'm just going to tell myself that Lisa read to her and felt bad for her situation. Lisa had to be kind because that was her job, but Alessa must have taken it the wrong way.

While I by no means subscribe to the "Angelic Lisa" idea, I do find it fitting to imagine her, inbetween bandage-changing, talking sweetly to a girl who can't speak back, reading to her or telling Alessa about things outside she can't see anymore. It's totally within Lisa's nature to think "Maybe if I talk to her, she'll atleast have good dreams."

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but while Alessa was in a coma, I would say that she had to be lucid dreaming (she was asleep, but aware of the fact she was dreaming and able to effect things in the dream and see things outside of it too.) Therefore she could have saw what was happening to Lisa, and brought her back to get her revenge on a certain someone. Plus, the world that was built around her seems to be constructed with a purpose in mind. The puzzles, the monsters... it's like she was trying to build a wall between her and Harry that just screamed "go back, you don't know what you're doing! leave me alone to die!" That's just my interpretation of course.

You're assuming Alessa was constantly in the condition Lisa describes.

And the doctor who called her a "husk". Besides, it still doesn't change the fact Lisa is unaware of reasons behind Alessa's conditions. If Alessa was conscious sometimes, she would have told Lisa what was going on.

And I do think Lisa is nice and sensitive in nature (maybe more sensitive then nice), but she's no angel. Not in SH0 and not in SH1.

well, 7 years could have changed her. Made her a better person. They say that hardship makes the heart grow stronger. She could been made into a saint from years of caring for an ever-sick child while nursing a drug addiction.

But actually, the only flaw I can see in Lisa in SH1 is that she was a little selfish. She'd rather Harry stay with her than continue looking for his daughter. That was part of her purpose in SH anyway though, can't really blame her.