Grinders out there (especially 6max SnG), how many hands (per week or day) do you play and what sort of ROI do you get?

I'm just setting out playing 5 and 10 dollar buy ins, turning reasonable profit, around 5% ROI (not that great I don't think) but don't play many tables. Just wondering how intense the proper grinders sessions are....

thanks for your other post as wel. didnt see it until today. interesting data.

1. i play between 18:30 - 01:30 ( dutch time). because otherwise i cant get enough tables running.

2. around 7 hours (around 100 tournaments)

3. between 15-23 tables. depending on how many FT i have. on avg around 20 i think.

4. i only play turbo 180s. but lately i have been studying gto for cash games quite abit. think i give that a shot very soon. the 180s are nice, but the variance is so horrible. i have to live of it. so i am looking for a game with a less swingy structure.

3. between 15-23 tables. depending on how many FT i have. on avg around 20 i think.

Quote:

...the 180s are nice, but the variance is so horrible...

Mass tabling like this will make your ROI to drop (but maybe you´re maximizing your hourly) and low ROIs will make you more sensitive to swings.

Quote:

4. i only play turbo 180s. but lately i have been studying gto for cash games quite abit. think i give that a shot very soon. . I am looking for a game with a less swingy structure.

100% agree with you, as much as i enjoy playing them as well as MTTs i just cant take the short term variance anymore and im more than willing to trade long term EV for more short term stability playing a different format. I actually tried transitioning to cash at the end of last year and the beggining of this year, i got my butt kicked at NL10 and some at NL25, i still want to go into cash in the near future but need to have enough liferoll saved to do it for the time i need to properly adjust and not worrty about variance and also money for at least 20h worth of coaching to guide me through the process along with at least 50BIs of bankroll, but yeah i def relate to what your saying.

I would say that the profitability of any poker format is not nearly as important as your ability to exploit that profitability. I´ve seen it over and over again people playing X format just because it offers higher hourly than Y but they dont make as much $ in X in comparission to Y. I think just grind the game you feel the most confortable at and where you feel you have an edge.

I would say that the profitability of any poker format is not nearly as important as your ability to exploit that profitability. I´ve seen it over and over again people playing X format just because it offers higher hourly than Y but they dont make as much $ in X in comparission to Y. I think just grind the game you feel the most confortable at and where you feel you have an edge.

I have only dabbled in the really low stakes MTTSTTs as my bankroll is fairly low. I am curious what the effects of moving from $3.50 to $7.00 is in terms of win rate? Is it drastically noticeable.. as in your ROI would be less than 1/2? Or not. I was also wondering what the jump from $7.00 to $15.00 would be like? Would really like to hear players experiences before I make the jump myself in a few weeks down the road.

I used to grind $11 STT SNGs and crush them with no HUD 10 years ago. These days, my bank roll is low and those stakes would scare me lol.

Here is a small sample of me grinding $3.50 turbos on Stars. 18 and 45 man. I know its a very small sample, but can I extrapolate any idea of how well I would perform at the $7.00 or $15.00 level at these games?

Here is a small sample of me grinding $3.50 turbos on Stars. 18 and 45 man. I know its a very small sample, but can I extrapolate any idea of how well I would perform at the $7.00 or $15.00 level at these games?

Sample is way too small. You need at least 10k games to really say anything imo. Secondly, don't focus on your results in $ and/or ROI (especially with no sample size). Instead, post a graph of your ev/hands and ev bb/100 from every position. Then we can tell. GL

As far as your rankings on Official Poker Rankings, for grinding 18 and 45 man MTTSNGs, how valid is your ranking on that site? Do you guys give it much credibility as far as how good of a tournament player you believe you are?

I have fluctuated between the top 5% and top 4% recently. My current rating is 95.87% for this year.

I'm just wondering if that is anything to feel good about, or if that will just falsely inflate my ego.

As far as your rankings on Official Poker Rankings, for grinding 18 and 45 man MTTSNGs, how valid is your ranking on that site? Do you guys give it much credibility as far as how good of a tournament player you believe you are?

I have fluctuated between the top 5% and top 4% recently. My current rating is 95.87% for this year.

I'm just wondering if that is anything to feel good about, or if that will just falsely inflate my ego.

How common and big are downswings in 45 man MTT's? I've been grinding 0.50$ 45 man on stars, for the past couple of days and at first I did alright but now I'm getting hit with a massive bad luck streak. I've been playing the same TAG style I played since day 1 in this format, but 51 BI downswing can't be normal for such a small field, can it? I'd understand if the field was 90 or 180, but for 45 it just seems ridiculous. I've been running through my hand histories and only found a small amount of mistakes made, which would represent 15~ BI at most, the rest were +EV decisions. Any thoughts or advice?

Advice? Study hard, make good decisions don't tilt and grind through it

Really? So what kind of BI downswing amount would fall out of the "standard"? Over 100?

That early 30 BI downswing was mostly my fault for trying out different formats to find the one I'm most comfortable at...

I'm already studying and will hire an MTT coach at one point, but tilting is very hard not to do, especially when you're playing for pennies and the massive downswing makes you question your own ability... I'm probably being silly here, but I guess people can relate to that feeling.

They are pretty common and nearly everybody underestimates how often they happen.

If we call a 50% chance of seeing a downswing common then it works out for 45's with a 10% roi you see a downswing of:
i)62BI's (seen in 50% of each 1000 45 seat game block)
ii)81BI's (seen in 50% of each 2000 45 seat game block)
iii)109BI's (seen in 50% of each 5000 45 seat game block)
iv)130BI's (seen in 50% of each 10000 45 seat game block)

If you want to see how often to expect uncommon downswings, let's call a 5% chance of seeing a swing ie, 1 in 20, uncommon, for 10% roi they happen

i)120BI's (seen in 5% of each 1000 45 seat game block)
ii)150BI's (seen in 5% of each 2000 45 seat game block)
iii)190BI's (seen in 5% of each 5000 45 seat game block)
iv)220BI's (seen in 5% of each 10000 45 seat game block)

As there are 1000's of players in the player pool and maybe still plenty with a 'true' 10% roi perhaps a 1 in 20 isn't really uncommon. Somebody always will get unlucky with a game with a high random nature.

Don't think that bad luck only happens to you it is spread throughout the player pool. Look at the hands you are not involved in and you will see runner-runner events happening to others very often, well as often as they should statistically.