Changes to loan periods and fines from 7 January, 2013

In 2012 the Library reviewed its existing loan and fine conditions for all Library collections. From 7 January 2013, there will be longer loan periods and no fines for the late return of items which are not required by other borrowers. Note, however, that there will be increased fines for the non-return of high demand items and lost material.

All Library material borrowed or renewed from the 7 of January 2013 will be subject to the loan and fine conditions listed below:

Loan periods

General collection items may be borrowed for 12 weeks unless requested by another borrower

Once borrowed, general collection items may be continually renewed unless requested by another borrower ( Please note that some non-staff/student Library members are capped on the number of times they can renew an item. Information on loan limits can be found at: http://sydney.edu.au/library/borrowing/cards.html)

High demand general collection items may be borrowed for 7 days (high demand is defined as when an item is requested by another borrower

2-hour collection items may be borrowed for 2 hours or as overnight loans

Overdue general collection items may be renewed through MyLoans, unless an item is requested by another borrower

Fines

There are NO fines for the late return of a general collection item unless it is requested by another borrower or it is overdue for more than 32 days from the due date

The late return of a 2-Hour collection item is fined at $10 per hour or part thereof, to a maximum of $120

The late return of a general collection item requested by another borrower is fined at $10 per day, to a maximum of $320

You have 7 days to return an item requested by another borrower before fines start accruing, unless the due date is earlier

* Please note that overdue items requested by another borrower, or any items you still have on loan which are deemed lost will block you from borrowing further library material until you have resolved the issue.

$200 replacement fee is such a rip off. What about paperback items? Surely a paperback book, of any size, doesn’t cost this much. This is just the university ripping off students and other readers.
I hope you have security measures to ensure that books cannot be removed from return slots.
A ten dollar per day fine for an item that is requested by another user?
Come on…

Hi DJ,
The $200 replacement fee is an across the board fee; some of our items cost considerably more than $200 and some less. If an item does get lost, we do give our client the chance to replace the item themselves, so if they feel they can obtain it for cheaper than $200 they are free to do so.

The $10 per day fine only comes into effect after the 7 day recall period has passed and this is to give equal access to high demand items to all of our clients.

Thanks for changing the loan periods and fine structure. The previous system has always been an issue for those of us in rural/remote areas of Australia where it can take up to 7 days to get books back to USYD. The extended loan periods will differently help us out in the bush to keep on studying.

Doesn’t this sort of encourage people to just keep books for huge amounts of time? While someone might not want to ‘borrow’ the book, they may still wish to access it in the library off the shelf for half an hour or something. It’s good about the fees, but I’d be concerned about people essentially stockpiling books, and then even if a person needs it for a short amount of time, having to wait 7 days for it to be returned.

@DJ
What I find particularly amusing is the $120 “processing fee” for replacing the lost books. Umm, what is this exactly? I’m expecting the answer to be “the cost of staff labour in ordering and cataloguing the book”. But this would be an hour’s work. Maximum. I’m obviously in the wrong industry if library staff are paid $120 an hour…..

Hi
The increase from $2 to $10 for a recalled borrow is absolutely ridiculous revenue raising. Other Universities carry a charge of $2, a five fold increase isn’t justified.

Here is an idea increase the number of highly requested books in the collections, have your liaison librarians source titles that will be in demand for specialized assignments recall them to satellite libraries ahead of time. Place adequate copies in 2 hour loan and in document digital delivery. Don’t rely on the academics to place items in 2hour loan as normally they will only place one.

Follow the trends, it isn’t hard to see the patterns from the previous year and plan ahead. Just raising your fees wont solve the students frustration at not being able to access the text because it has 10 holds on it and it is constantly out on 2 hour loan.

I agree, Librarians, please propose the library invests in a more securely-protected RETURN shute. At those costs, it will only take a couple of students to pay the new replacement fee and the library can afford it and an ATM-lookalike for returning books.

But really, thanks, the new pricing scheme will prove itself to be effective I’m sure.

Will notifications be sent via email when a borrowed item is requested by another borrower? It would be totally unfair for borrowers to be fined $10 a day when they don’t even know they need to return a requested item! I am going to formally complain about this possibility as soon as I get back to uni.

This looks remarkably like the policy UNSW Library intro’d in late 2011. The fine print regarding ‘deemed lost’ is pivotal. At UNSW any book overdue 30 days is deemed lost and the replacement fees then accrue at an alarming rate if multiple loans are involved – however no-one was told this initially. Please clarify your deemed lost criteria for general colection, if any.

For Fisher Library in particular, you will notice that a new after hours automated return system is installed at the entrance. After the setup and testing is finalised it will replace the old return slot.

HI Can you please verify that students can replace the book themselves if they lose one.
As previously I thought I lost a book worth $30.00 and I was told byt the library that I could not go and buy another to replace it, and that I would have to pay the library instead at a much higher price. Fortunately I found the book.

I realize DJ’s point, paperbacks are not that expensive to reproduce. Setting an across the board fee, sounds like there has not been prudent consideration into implementing the fee in the first place. I mean, an across the board fee would be much easier to remember, and simplifies the process. However, it can unevenly distribute fees according to paperbacks vs textbooks vs multimedia.

There should be a different fee for different library resources if damage is to be incurred, and/or if lost. It seems yet again that introducing a generic fee is easy, and very counter-intuitive to convince students that changes are happening, wrong!

It is SIMPLY ripping off students and as a student I speak up and say that is the truth.

This is the layout that I propose that the library re-evaluate on. It is absolutely greedy to just charge the same fee for all items at the University of Sydney libraries.

I love it when I can borrow books worth considerably more than $320 dollars so that i can steal them at profit… terrible system charge the person who lost the book the price the RRP, sick of having to pay surplus for other people’s needs

This new system should take into account some administrative errors of the library that have occurred over the past few years. For example, not sending reminder emails of when a book is due (as has happened to me on multiple occassions over the past few years) and also the library failing to ensure that a book had been signed off my record upon return (I went searching only to find that the book had been placed on the reshelving stand yet was still listed as borrowed under my name when I had returned it, meaning I would have been accuring hefty fines under this new system without knowing). Therefore if this system is to be fair the library needs to pick up its game and be accountable for its own operations.

@Avgoulla
Hi Avgoulla,
I can’t comment on your previous experience, don’t fully know all the circumstances surrounding it, however, with the new loan conditions; I can confirm that you would be given the opportunity to replace the lost item yourself.

Before the rules go in effect our borrowing pages will be updated to clarify how the whole new process will work.

The ten dollar fine for requested items is fair and the replacement fees sound good also. I think this new system will make people more accountable and will prevent books disappearing from the library. However if the student has a good reason for returning a requested book late then that needs to be taken into account.

Speaking as a member of the small cohort of part-time postgrads, I welcome the changes. For us the issue of money is less significant, as many of us are part-timers because of other work we do. The key issue is that our access to campus, library browsing time and book borrowing is very tightly constrained. I think the changes will improve the likelihood that we can get our hands on a book closer to when we need it than has sometimes been the case.

I think a survey at ?6 months in would be useful to see if there was hardship or it was working as intended. For the rest of you, just bring the bloody books back when you’re supposed to and it won’t be a problem.

Could all the above whingers please stop ranting on about how “unfair” and “unjust” the new fine system is! Not EVERYONE is poor and living on student welfare!!!!!

Who cares if you have to pay $10 late fee or a $320 replacement charge….Serves you right for returning it late or loosing the book. No sympathy from me whatsoever.

If you can’t afford to pay $10/$320, then you really should not be studying at a G8 university. Perhaps transferring to UTS (United Tafe Students) is more commensurate with your socioeconomic situation???? May I suggest working extra hours at Coles stacking shelves so that you can pay the $10 late fee????

I think the changes implemented across the board are fantastic and I thoroughly welcome the new fee/borrowing structure. I also commend Fisher Library for the fantastic renovations they have done. I’d be happy to pay a $100 a day late fee, if need be, to make money for even more renovations and improvements.

How will the information that an item is requested by another user be transmitted? As I live in Katoomba I need some notice to return an item that I borrowed when not requested by another that became requested. How long after I receive an informative email stating this will I have before $10 per day starts? Also I have had a problem in that when I post something back to you although it hits the Uni post office one or at most two days later it seems to take a long time to get registered as returned by the library. This will be crucial at $10 per day.
Thanks for any clarification. Right now I have a number of items but to my knowledge none of them have been requested by anyone else to date.

Not Poor :
Could all the above whingers please stop ranting on about how “unfair” and “unjust” the new fine system is! Not EVERYONE is poor and living on student welfare!!!!!
Who cares if you have to pay $10 late fee or a $320 replacement charge….Serves you right for returning it late or loosing the book. No sympathy from me whatsoever.
If you can’t afford to pay $10/$320, then you really should not be studying at a G8 university. Perhaps transferring to UTS (United Tafe Students) is more commensurate with your socioeconomic situation???? May I suggest working extra hours at Coles stacking shelves so that you can pay the $10 late fee????
I think the changes implemented across the board are fantastic and I thoroughly welcome the new fee/borrowing structure. I also commend Fisher Library for the fantastic renovations they have done. I’d be happy to pay a $100 a day late fee, if need be, to make money for even more renovations and improvements.
Thank you Fisher Library !!!!!!!!!!!

I don’t know if you’re being humorous or facetious, but how your comment got moderated to show is beyond me. Talk about being plain rude.

@DG
What? You can’t access a book by requesting it via your My Library page?
Your argument is illogical and nonsensical.
To get access to any book that is currently borrowed, you still have to request it.
You think that a higher fine will make the borrower return the book? Not if they’re a supposedly wealthy student like ‘Not Poor’ in the below comments.
I requested a book last semester, the borrower had a week to return it. Do you know how high the fine climbed? I just left it there, didn’t cancel my booking, on purpose just so the arrogant borrower had a higher fine to pay. It exceeded the $50 mark. Do you think they returned it? Nope.

@Baz
How is a $10 fine for a late returned item after 7 days’ notice unjust?? Because it means you can’t afford to ignore the recall notice? And can’t rip off the other student/staff member who also needs to use the item? Because you now must have 2 less vodkas that night? A fine must act as a deterrent, or else there is simply no point whatsoever in having fines at all. I’m all for the steeper rates. The bottom line is if you are organised and play by the rules you will pay NOTHING…get that? Not a cent!

I am a recent alumni from USYD and have a library card since I am involved with research. But I am not enrolled at any university at present. The new 12 week loans and no fines for late return policy is a great disadvantage for me since I do not have the right to request anything. This also applies to some other borrower categories who actually pay a lot of money for the library membership. What it means is that some books will simply not become available for people like me for extended periods.

The design layout you suggested is one we have considered in the past and were not able to adopt because of the complexity of our holdings and the inability of our current Library system to implement.

Many libraries have been investigating this option and we are hopeful that in the future, software will catch up with all the complexities we have in our libraries and are able to accommodate such solutions.

I assure you if this becomes something that is practical to implement we will do so.

Seems fair enough, but you need to make sure your staff do their jobs properly- too many times have I had to go through the stack to find a book that I had ALREADY returned only to be told it was ‘overdue’ or requested by another student. Is it really so hard to scan a return item before putting it back on the shelves?

I am an alumna borrower. I have no right to recall an item. It has been very difficult at times to obtain items. Under this new system, it will be impossible. Can something be done to allow borrowers such as myself to request an item.

Whilst this system seems fair it is a really difficult time for such changes to be made before the start of Semester 1. For example I just had an item recalled and I live in a rural area interstate and am not planning on returning to uni until the start of Semester 1 – this will mean roughly $300 in fines for one book when I was not aware that such changes would be made when I borrowed the book.

If you borrowed the item before 7 January 2013 and didn’t try to renew it on or after that date, then the old loan conditions apply and not the new ones.

As for returning the item, if you can’t come to any of the libraries then you have the option to post it to your library via registered post or courier service, please make sure you label it to Returns section in addition to the library’s full address.

This system was implemented when the least number of items where on loan and our data confirmed that this is in the month of January. If your item is not required by another person then you should be able to renew the item which hopefully will make the return date after your return from your rural placement.@Lucy

I am an alumna borrower. I have no right to recall an item. It has been very difficult at times to obtain items. Under this new system, it will be impossible. Can something be done to allow borrowers such as myself to request an item?

‘Not Poor’ Spend some of your cash to get a life. I always thought G8 universities recruited intelligence ……. – regardless of their affluence. Include a real name next time when you want to start having a dig at ‘poor’ people and don’t make your poverty of courage so obvious.

And to admin: Seven days to return an item requested by another person before fines are incurred: seven days after the notification or the ammended due date?

The reason I ask is that I am going to Melbourne in a week, for a week (something I have never done, by the way) and if I have an item recalled on my first day there and I only have a few days to get it back, then I could be fined $40 for not getting it back on time. And I don’t have $40 after paying for my first academic conference.

I am not privy to the exact details of the item you mention. As such, I can only comment on the possibilities, one of which, is that the item was already due earlier than 7 days, in that case, when a recall is put on such an item, the recall date stays as the original due date, which would be less than 7 days.

Our standard recommendation is not to have items checked-out if you are planning to travel; we can’t guarantee that items would not be recalled. Having said that, make sure that none of the items you have checked-out are due while you are away or are recalled just before you leave.

What I don’t understand is how the library can’t keep track of the RRP of every book they purchase and charge that amount for the book if it is lost. I don’t think any charge should be in place for overdue books unless they are requested by other students while they are overdue. In reality it just proves that the university cares more about money than about learning.

In relation to your comments, the new loan conditions enable you to keep renewing an item indefinitely; if no one recalls it then you can keep it forever.

Renewing an item is a gentle reminder of what you’ve got and for the Library to touch base with you and its own collection. The loan period has been extended and the renewal process is but a few clicks after logging to MyLoans.

As for keeping track of RRP of every book, putting aside the technical issues in that regard, think of this scenario; the Library bought a book in 1975 for $10, in 2013 the book has been out of print for 35 years and we are the only library in Australia to have a copy. A client has borrowed the book and it got lost. The Library is not able to get a replacement copy from the publisher.

Should we charge $10 for that item? Should we account for inflation? How about our inability to get another copy and the inconvenience to the rest of our clients, should that be taken into account?

The University of Sydney Library has around 5 million physical items in its collection, spanning from 1172 to 2013, many of which have no such thing as a RRP or their RRP bares no relation to their actual price.

The Library would ideally like to have a standard system that would give each item its due price; however, sadly, this is easier said than done.

I should mention that clients always have the option to replace the item if they can find it elsewhere and thus avoid a large portion of the fine.

Hear, hear! I’m in the same situation. Because I’m an alumna I can’t request items, and this combined with the fact that students and academics can basically keep renewing books indefinitely means that there are certain items that remain completely unavailable to me within my research time frame.

Please, either reintroduce a reasonable limit on the number of times items can be renewed, OR allow alumni borrowers the right to request items. Preferably the latter. I wouldn’t care if there were a limit applied to alumni borrowers (say, six requests a year or something), but it would be good to have that option.

Incidentally, having a renewal limit is a Very Good Thing, as I’ve observed through experience on both sides of the classroom. When there’s a deadline you actually get off your bottom (after a fashion) and *read* the thing, make proper notes, and develop your own ideas. Having a library book sit on your shelf for months on end helps no one. And if you really need to consult a book on a daily basis for more than 12 weeks at a time, perhaps that’s a sign you need to invest in your own copy.@Kerry

@Gaith (Library Web)
«…the new loan conditions enable you to keep renewing an item indefinitely: if no one recalls it then you can keep it forever.»

Precisely! If I keep renewing a book I can pretty much keep it forever.
And that scenario sucks.

It wouldn’t suck if *all borrowers* had the right to recall an item, but some of us don’t.
(When I first graduated, alumni borrowers were able to recall items. I doubt the system was being abused as a result, especially since anyone could recall the books borrowed by alumni, but that right was removed from us a few years ago.)

It is not a library’s role to facilitate the keeping of books forever by individuals, whether students, academics or alumni. A library is there to ensure that its resources are made available to as many scholars as possible.

This sort of rubbish, trying to rip off students in roundabout ways is why I think so many if us just don’t bother with books anymore, as much as I like using books, with all these rules I’d rather find a copy online!

looks great to me! It makes sense being able to keep items for longer if no one else requires them. Gaith, well explained and thanks for being calm and gentle in the face of angry keyboard bashers. Cheers for the library changes (and for being polite!)

The Library did indeed think of how will this affect our Alumni and have changed what Alumni can request.

We have updated our Services for Alumni page and put a news item about it on the 17 January, titled: “Services enhancement for our alumni” you can find the news item at http://news.library.usyd.edu.au/?p=1168

Well I hope there will be leniency for those who borrow items that are required for research in the field, which sometimes lasts for a few weeks in some locations… Should the item be requested by somebody and the person is in a remote location why should they have to face fines in the hundreds?

Also, and SMS notification systems for request for use by others could be useful considering a spike in fines revenue is likely…

I think all these changes are great! The only thing I’m worried about is that previously I had an experience when I was emailed for an overdue book that I had certainly returned- I called the library and they said they’d put the book back on the shelf without scanning it! What if these kinds of incidents happen again, because if they were not able to find the book on the shelf, I’d really have no way to prove that I had returned the book!

On the one hand, I’m glad that I can just keep library items in my own home indefinitely…
On the other hand, the library should not forget the value of library users being able to physically browse the shelves. I’ve found many great things on the shelves near the item I was actually looking for. I wonder whether these chance discoveries will be a thing of the past now that many items could be sitting in people’s homes, not on the shelves.

Any other library users feel the same about ‘serendipitous shelf discoveries’?

So you have doubled the lost item fee? DOUBLED. We are students, I lost a few items last year (at university, they somehow were not handed in to the library), and I simply cannot afford to pay such huge amounts of money. I did find replacements for 2 out of 3 of the books, so under these new rules I still owe the library over $500. And given I have recieved this email about changes from January 7 on February the 25th, i was not even given the chance to pay the fine under the old rule (where i still owe the library $280). If i had known that the replacement fee was standard and not just the cost of the book and the metal strip put inside (which you seem to think costs $120), i would have never have borrowed any books in the first place for fear of losing them!

$10 per hour as a penalty? that’s ridiculous. If you’re 1 minute late you’ll cop a $10 fine, meaning that if you do this 3 times throughout the year you can’t borrow any books without paying off your fines? that seems pretty harsh don’t you think?

I should clarify that if you borrowed items on the old loan conditions or had fines before the new loan conditions came into effect then your items and fines will be governed by the old conditions and not the new.

Recently I received a fine for returning a recalled book late. During the now nine years I have had a library card I have always received an email notice informing me when items were due to be returned soon or had been recalled. I did not receive any such email this time around. Am I to understand that this is a one off error, or are these emails a mere courtesy. If the latter are students then required to check myloans daily in case of such recalls? Furthermore

We endeavour to send our borrowers courtesy notices, however, as the name implies, they are a courtesy and clients are expected to check MyLoans for status changes of items.

You do not need to check it on a daily bases, since you are given up to 7 days to return an item that is recalled, once every couple of days should be sufficient.

We have had an issue with notices going out recently. This was due to a University wide email security filtering upgrade that had the unfortunate side effect of blocking all notices for a period of time. This might be the cause of you not receiving any notices.

Point 17.1 of the Library 2011 rules does indeed specify the default means of communication, which is email and this is what we use to send all notices or communicate with our clients. However, looking a little bit further down, at point 17.5 it states: “The library will not be held responsible if a user does not receive a particular notice by a certain time, or at all.”

The technology behind email was setup in a way to make it super convenient, however, it also does not make it a guaranteed method of communication. emails do on occasion get blocked or lost for different types of reasons. This is why we always recommend borrowers to not completely rely on email when it comes to notices and that they should periodically check MyLoans.

If you want to discuss your fine, I would recommend contacting the specific library you borrowed the item from and explain the situation to them, I am sure a satisfactory outcome can be reached.

Thank you for your prompt response. I took the step of posting my query in this public forum as I think it may help others who may encounter similar problems.

I will endeavour to check myloan weekly as you suggest. Hopefully I will continue to receive courtesy notices in the future.

I did note rule 17.5. I am not sure in this specific circumstance how that rule is compatible with 17.1. Still, I understand that the glitch was the likely cause of no courtesy email being sent.

I immediately began a fine appeal upon returning the item. My greater concern is that another researcher needed an item, perhaps urgently (as is sometimes the case) and I had it on loan, ignorant of that need.

I tried to return my book yesterday (7/3) to the main campus rather than the health science campus as it is closer to where I live. I arrived at around 5pm, thinking that the libraries would still be open, as they usually are. I could not get the Fisher library return shoot to work and ended up returning my book to the Law Library. I have today received a notification that I have been fined $10. I don’t think this is fair given that I tried to return the book within the allotted time.

I would also like to add that I took this book out last week (27/2) and due to it being recalled, was only allowed to have it for just over a week, which is think is too short a time. I believe there should be a minimum period that you can have a book before it is recalled.
Thank you

Thank you for the past good and excellent library services USYD libraries have been rendering.

Some thoughts:
It’d be excellent to have most reference books in the e-format, and most key or rare books made available in the e-format as well. Especially with some tight studies schedule and heavy work commitment of readers, I believe, this facilities will enable more efficient and smart learning process for the students.

I do not have enough information from you to be able to check your record and give you advice accordingly.
I would suggest you contact the Library you borrowed the book from with this question and they can look and tell you what is going on.

Hi, what happens if my borrowed book is requested (which means I have to return within 7 days) while I am not available, say business trip being overseas for 10 days? Also, another query I have is if a book is high demanded and someone requests, there are 10 in total but all out with 10 individuals, will 10 of borrowers receive that 7 days request emails or does the single request email randomly pick one borrower or the borrower who keeps for the longest time is called? There must be a rule, please explain.

Thank you for your questions.
The Library’s guideline is that if a client is planning to travel for more than 7 days that they should return items they borrowed to avoid any possible fines if recalled.

If there is more than one copy of a book, the item that gets recalled is the one that the client chooses to recall, i.e. the client can pick which one he/she recalls.