"Warning Against Falling Away
11We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you are slow to learn. 12In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God's word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! 13Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. 14But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

Hebrews 6
1Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death,[a] and of faith in God, 2instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3And God permitting, we will do so.

4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because[b]to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

7Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

9Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are confident of better things in your case—things that accompany salvation. 10God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them. 11We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, in order to make your hope sure. 12We do not want you to become lazy, but to imitate those who through faith and patience inherit what has been promised."

I guess some people just cannot get over some of the elementary teachings'.
Does anyone have anything to add as to why this could be? What stops
them?

“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

September 30, 201011:26 pm

greeney2

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Those lessons reside in the heart too, and not just the mind. The mind can let you deny things til the cows come home, but the heart may always tell you otherwise. Something a science oriented person may never agree to, they think the heart is no more than a blood pump, but there is a reason some things are referred to as "Matters of the Heart", such as Our Souls, Love, Faith, Devotion.

October 1, 20105:00 am

at1with0

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Well I get mixed messages.

On one hand, God supposedly chooses who will be in grace and acts don't dictate the choice.

And on the other hand, we must repent to God. But what's the point if God makes the choice? (And by no means am I claiming people are all innocent.)

Sometimes it seems God is talking out of both sides of his mouth, and that holds me back, personally.

"it is easy to grow crazy"

October 1, 20105:31 am

sandra

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"greeney2" wrote: Those lessons reside in the heart too, and not just the mind. The mind can let you deny things til the cows come home, but the heart may always tell you otherwise. Something a science oriented person may never agree to, they think the heart is no more than a blood pump, but there is a reason some things are referred to as "Matters of the Heart", such as Our Souls, Love, Faith, Devotion.

Very true. It can be the hardest thing for people to look inside their own hearts, like everything was a matter of the mind alone.

“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

October 1, 20105:52 am

sandra

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"at1with0" wrote: Well I get mixed messages.

How many mixed messages do you get from your own interpretation?
If you interpreted without
the care of others interpretations.....how many mixed messages would
you find???

On one hand, God supposedly chooses who will be in grace and acts don't dictate the choice.

There are levels to those teachings. One being that acts Alone, does not dictate. With the Holy spirit, what acts are empty? If we are of the holy spirit do we do acts without grace, do we do choosing? What is some of your own interpretations- what you have been given counts for something.

If people want to sit around all their life and think that merely doing a few good things for others while their hearts are dark and selfish in nature but they think a few acts of charity is good enough for rewards.....why should they be given a message like that? That we can do whatever the heck we want, if we pretend to do good and be good, that that is good enough?

“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

October 1, 20106:10 am

at1with0

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"sandra" wrote: [quote="at1with0"]Well I get mixed messages.

How many mixed messages do you get from your own interpretation?
If you interpreted without
the care of others interpretations.....how many mixed messages would
you find???

Good point.
If I were to suspend my trust of others interpretations, the mix would probably be reduced to a single voice that carries through the words.

There are levels to those teachings. One being that acts Alone, does not dictate. With the Holy spirit, what acts are empty? If we are of the holy spirit do we do acts without grace, do we do choosing? What is some of your own interpretations- what you have been given counts for something.

Acts matter but in addition what's in the heart and mind are also acts despite having no outward demonstration. So if we do a few good things with hearts dark and selfish in nature, that is an unbalance.

Incidentally, I was recently reminded that if I feel adrift (as reading the Bible sometimes makes me feel), I am not lost to God as God is the sea I feel adrift in.

I feel God is both a personal one and in another way as impersonal as gravity in that there are ways in which it (or as some would say: He) operates. The kingdom of God permeates everything, everywhere, without exception. A ubiquitous omnipresence. That means the God-force (some might say Holy Spirit) is present at all times and accessible, meaning that when we let it act through us, the result is in every way perfect.

How many mixed messages do you get from your own interpretation?
If you interpreted without
the care of others interpretations.....how many mixed messages would
you find???

Good point.
If I were to suspend my trust of others interpretations, the mix would probably be reduced to a single voice that carries through the words.

There are levels to those teachings. One being that acts Alone, does not dictate. With the Holy spirit, what acts are empty? If we are of the holy spirit do we do acts without grace, do we do choosing? What is some of your own interpretations- what you have been given counts for something.

Acts matter but in addition what's in the heart and mind are also acts despite having no outward demonstration. So if we do a few good things with hearts dark and selfish in nature, that is an unbalance.

Incidentally, I was recently reminded that if I feel adrift (as reading the Bible sometimes makes me feel), I am not lost to God as God is the sea I feel adrift in.

I feel God is both a personal one and in another way as impersonal as gravity in that there are ways in which it (or as some would say: He) operates. The kingdom of God permeates everything, everywhere, without exception. A ubiquitous omnipresence. That means the God-force (some might say Holy Spirit) is present at all times and accessible, meaning that when we let it act through us, the result is in every way perfect.

That's some of my interpretation.

Well I've already told you that you can blow the roof off the house, your
answers weren't a surprise but rather an expectation that they would be
pretty much perfect. Why have you least wanted to go there of all places?

“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

October 1, 20107:11 am

at1with0

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Thanks sandra.

"sandra" wrote: Why have you least wanted to go there of all places?

I'm not entirely sure what you mean. Please rephrase or elaborate? It sounds like a really good and relevant question.

"it is easy to grow crazy"

October 1, 20107:28 am

sandra

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"at1with0" wrote: Thanks sandra.

[quote="sandra"]Why have you least wanted to go there of all places?

I'm not entirely sure what you mean. Please rephrase or elaborate? It sounds like a really good and relevant question.

Your own interpretations of things in scripture without the care of others interpretations.
I've watched for a long time now. Its the least place as a believer in anything and everything that you are willing to go. That is not believers freedom. You have excelled and exhausted near every other outlet for your growth leaving your own interpretations of scripture to be near last, why? You aren't hesitant to interpret anything else. And its quite contrary. You know how many signs chosen people are given, and yet theyrun the other way, thats almost always how it happens. However I have yet to meet someone as similar to you. Most people out there that reject truth of scripture are most often people that are running around with a blind fold on and their hands behind their backs running into anything and everything not knowing what the hell is going on while they appear intelligent and enlightened of things of the spirit yet can't discern a dang thing. You are not one of those people obviously far from it.

“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

October 1, 20108:15 am

at1with0

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"sandra" wrote: leaving your own interpretations of scripture to be near last, why?

I trust a Christian's interpretation over my own, as erroneous as that sounds. But it's something good to be mindful of and thanks for bringing it to my attention.
I know this might be a really dumb comparison but it reminds me of this game I play. I search for strategies online what other people do and I follow their advice to the letter. But now I've started building my own strategies instead of following established canon, a doctrine in my analogy. I think, imo, it's really good to know what other people have tried and what works for them but eventually to develop one's own way. I approach poetry in the same way (which reminds me that it's been a while ... )

I almost became a Mormon about 5 years ago. My understanding was that Joseph Smith was unsatisfied with every variant of Christianity so he went on a quest to develop his own way like in my analogy. He eventually found his own way and it became Mormonism. What I got out of that was not to be a Mormon but to do what Smith did which is to find my own way.

You know how many signs chosen people are given, and yet theyrun the other way, thats almost always how it happens.

This concept of chosen people is interesting. There are plenty out there who would say I, for example, am about as furthest from chosen as humanly possible. Something happened to me in 2002 that radically changed my life. I began moving massive energy. I don't know if I was chosen but I was choosing...something. New doors opened. I stepped through. I'm reminded of my nexus vision mentioned in that other thread which is encapsulated by my current sig picture. In my vision, I had several choices as to where to go, one of which was a steep but not insurmountable hill; that I recognized as the way back, back through the door and a return to how I was before the change. Sorry, I know I've said all this before elsewhere but it seems relevant to be mentioning it here as well. Ah, yes, the running the other way: that was the hardest of the choices available in my vision. I decided on a path of moderate difficulty; another of my options was to go off a slight cliff which might have represented the choice to continue suffering. Not to say I am incapable of suffering (ha, what a concept!). I'm probably digressing... 😮

However I have yet to meet someone as similar to you. Most people out there that reject truth of scripture are most often people that are running around with a blind fold on and their hands behind their backs running into anything and everything not knowing what the hell is going on while they appear intelligent and enlightened of things of the spirit yet can't discern a dang thing. You are not one of those people obviously far from it.

Sometimes the hardest thing to discern is what to do. I don't let others set the bar for me but even I think it could be higher. I read this book at one time that had a section on the nature of God which was a synthesis of western and eastern schools of thought which really made an impression on me. I was finally reading something about God that I soaked up like a sponge; it was concise and I found it easy to digest. I realized that it was quite possible to revamp my perception of God in such a way that I could wholeheartedly believe in it. Ah, but I ramble once again hehe
Oh yes, what to do. Well, that book suggests that if someone is enlightened, that they put out an energy into the universe that helps uplift others as well to their own enlightenment. I couldn't even tell you what enlightenment is though..I think that's something someone finds out or doesn't, on their own. There's this parable that goes something like this: before enlightenment, that is a tree. After enlightenment: that is a tree. Enlightenment seems to be from within while salvation seems to be from without. I have felt like life is training me but for what I am uncertain, and the training feels like it's climaxing with a "resolution" slash exercising coming soon. Another chapter.

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