I am a person who believes heavily in the freedom of religion. Although I do not believe in god I do believe that our nation was founded on core beliefs that included religious freedom.

At the same time, I dislike bigotry.

This has its awkward moments when I have to negotiate those "race mixing is devils tool" with allowing those people to not be discriminated. Then you have those who believe in the sanctity of marriage betwixt a man and a woman. That is unacceptable because marriage is a legal issue, not a moral one. Some of these people really do feel that if they are forced to wed two gay people (or back in the 50s a white and a black) then god will smite them. To them, two homosexuals marrying is on the same par as other crime.

I am really unsure how to resolve this. I dislike bigotry and I dislike it when people must commit actions against their deeply held beliefs.

I am a person who believes heavily in the freedom of religion. Although I do not believe in god I do believe that our nation was founded on core beliefs that included religious freedom.

At the same time, I dislike bigotry.

This has its awkward moments when I have to negotiate those "race mixing is devils tool" with allowing those people to not be discriminated. Then you have those who believe in the sanctity of marriage betwixt a man and a woman. That is unacceptable because marriage is a legal issue, not a moral one. Some of these people really do feel that if they are forced to wed two gay people (or back in the 50s a white and a black) then god will smite them. To them, two homosexuals marrying is on the same par as other crime.

I am really unsure how to resolve this. I dislike bigotry and I dislike it when people must commit actions against their deeply held beliefs.

Anyone else deal with this kind of internal conflict?

No. Because your right to your own beliefs ends well before imposing your beliefs on me.

I am a person who believes heavily in the freedom of religion. Although I do not believe in god I do believe that our nation was founded on core beliefs that included religious freedom.

At the same time, I dislike bigotry.

This has its awkward moments when I have to negotiate those "race mixing is devils tool" with allowing those people to not be discriminated. Then you have those who believe in the sanctity of marriage betwixt a man and a woman. That is unacceptable because marriage is a legal issue, not a moral one. Some of these people really do feel that if they are forced to wed two gay people (or back in the 50s a white and a black) then god will smite them. To them, two homosexuals marrying is on the same par as other crime.

I am really unsure how to resolve this. I dislike bigotry and I dislike it when people must commit actions against their deeply held beliefs.

Anyone else deal with this kind of internal conflict?

Here is how I solved it. As long as my belief did not interfere with anyone else's beliefs or harm someone. School prayer, forces a religious view on people.

You can't force a church to gay marry someone ( just like you cannot force catholic Church to remarry a divorce) but it should mean that gay people are allowed to marry elsewhere.

cman:I am really unsure how to resolve this. I dislike bigotry and I dislike it when people must commit actions against their deeply held beliefs.

Let's make this easy, who is being forced to commit actions against their deeply held beliefs? As far as I can tell, no church is being forced to perform same-sex marriages or interracial marriages for that matter.

The problem is that the religious have confused not being able to enforce their religious beliefs as law with being forced to do things that run counter to their religion.

Gosling:Well, THIS isn't going to end like that Nebraska law that ended in people from halfway across the country dumping their teenagers and driving off.

That was perhaps the most sad and yet strangely entertaining thing to hear on the news in the weeks that past when that law became active. It stunned me how a person can take their (I think the max age was 16?) teenager to NB, and just abandon them Joe Dirt style.

As for this "law", which pretty much allows the Taliban to exist with impunity...it embodies one of the many reasons people are leaving the GOP.

Actually, it's pretty much geared towards doing away with the few Fairness ordinances in the state--you know, the laws that say that you can't be fired because your boss thinks you might have The Gay. (The local dominionists have been pretty much unsuccessful in overturning them locally, so they've worked with the state legislature--which is far more dominionist-friendly and Southern Baptist-controlled--to basically give dominionists a free ticket to disregard those laws.)

Of course, as others have pointed out, they've also effectively legalised a lot of things they probably did not intend--things like polygamy, moonshine (in dry counties), marijuana (not just the Rastas, quite a number of other groups do use marijuana as a sacrament including at least one Christian church), snake-handling churches (illegal since 1946 but only sporadically enforced as it is), peyote (there aren't any federally recognised tribes in the US but this opens up for ANYONE to use peyote sacramentally), psilocybes (magic mushrooms are used by shamanic practitioners in European paleopagan and "reconstructionist" neopagan faiths), setting up one's own brothel and drug den as the First Temple of Slaanesh...

Of course, I also expect this will go away soon enough the very first time that someone is fired for being a member of the Wrong Religion and decides to file suit in federal court and/or the first time that a group using cannabis or peyote as a sacrament gets busted by the state cops. (Unfortunately, even our Democrats tend to be Republicans in spirit here, and the General Assembly tends to be prone to this sort of derp and the following courthouse smackdown. About a decade ago, they tried to basically regulate non-Christian denominations out of existence by requiring licensing for pastors, and it was ironically a member of a small Primitive Baptist church that got THAT law overturned in the courts...)

Great Porn Dragon:About a decade ago, they tried to basically regulate non-Christian denominations out of existence by requiring licensing for pastors, and it was ironically a member of a small Primitive Baptist church that got THAT law overturned in the courts...

What. How the hell did they think that would be legal / survive legal challenge. Or were they just idiots.

But Republican Rep. Stan Lee said, "It wasn't so long ago we had prayer in the schools, but they made us take it out."

Uh, no. Nope. Students can pray all they want to. State employees just can't participate.

pyrotek85: Unless they've actually forbidden students from praying, I don't see a problem.

Yes, this.

/yeah, I know some teachers/administrators don't get this distinction//and there is, in fact, tons of teacher/coach-led prayer in public schools///doesn't particularly bother me either way - I mean we still have kids fascistly (word?) pledge allegiance to the symbol of the state

Satanic_Hamster:Great Porn Dragon: About a decade ago, they tried to basically regulate non-Christian denominations out of existence by requiring licensing for pastors, and it was ironically a member of a small Primitive Baptist church that got THAT law overturned in the courts...

What. How the hell did they think that would be legal / survive legal challenge. Or were they just idiots.

They're Southern Baptist idiots, dear...pretty much the very same folks who functionally kept three-fourths of the state in Prohibition until VERY recently (and still half the counties are dry; the main reason that some counties are going moist and/or wet is that major chain "casual dining" restaurants are refusing to set up shop along I-64 and I-75 unless they can sell a beer or a cocktail with meals and these restaurants are functionally the only tax base in those areas aside from the coal mines and Wal-Mart).

It is literally impossible to underestimate the sheer, unadulterated level of religionationalist blatantly-ignorant derp that comes from the parts of this state outside Louisville, Lexington, Covington, or possibly Owensboro and Paducah; hell, we're one of the states that still had a major "Christian Patriot" militia movement after Clinton left office (and before Obama left in), are one of the few states where Hillary Clinton won the Democratic primary because people refused to vote for a Blah Man, and (particularly in Appalachia) "sundown towns" existed well into the 80's and Klan membership was almost required to get into Respectable Town Society. (Not joking on that, either. Have known too many folks who either lived there for a time and left, or grew up there and became refugees in Louisville.)

cman:I dislike bigotry and I dislike it when people must commit actions against their deeply held beliefs.

Anyone else deal with this kind of internal conflict?

I dislike it when people know that they have bigoted views regarding certain situations, and then take up a job where they know they will then be forced to choose between their religion and actually doing their job.

/don't believe in birth control? Don't take a job as a pharmacist.//don't believe certain people should get married? Don't take a job as a Justice of the Peace.

Great Porn Dragon:Satanic_Hamster: About a decade ago, they tried to basically regulate non-Christian denominations out of existence by requiring licensing for pastors, and it was ironically a member of a small Primitive Baptist church that got THAT law overturned in ...

There is no irony there. The Primitive Baptists churches I grew up around are, and always have been, adamant about the seperation of church and state.

Satanic_Hamster:Monkeyhouse Zendo: The problem is that the religious have confused not being able to enforce their religious beliefs as law with being forced to do things that run counter to their religion.

Doubtless. My initial thought was that it was a same-sex marriage thing since that's the hot button topic of the day but I see your point regarding providing a legal shield for douchebag pharmacists and proselytizing teachers.

It's shiat like this that took me from not caring about other people's religion to "militant atheist". I don't care what flavor of imaginary friend people vow their eternal submission to provided they don't try to force other people to submit to their primitive world view. I can live with the vast amount of time, energy, and resources wasted in the worship of mythological beings; I don't like it but I can live with it. Unfortunately, not having everyone else bow down to their idol and it's dictums is apparently unacceptable.

Monkeyhouse Zendo:Let's make this easy, who is being forced to commit actions against their deeply held beliefs?

it's been covered but one of the main talking points is pharmacists having to dispense the morning after pill. if your job requires you to preform a legal activity you can't just say "because jesus" and not do it.

The funny thing is, I've already heard of a minister or two, and more than a few gay couples, in Louisville who are going to cite this very law in the course of applying for marriage licenses and marrying.

The state legislature set its own bar for overcoming this law, in the law itself, as strict scrutiny. The state now must without exception show compelling interest and least-restrictive means in disallowing gay marriage, if the minister and couple involved have a sincerely-held religious belief they should be allowed to be married. Of course, knowing the yahoos who got this law passed, the state will try to argue it's not a sincerely-held religious belief which is a whole different ballgame in the courts as it turns to a free exercise issue and therefore strict scrutiny applies by default.

Curious:Monkeyhouse Zendo: Let's make this easy, who is being forced to commit actions against their deeply held beliefs?

it's been covered but one of the main talking points is pharmacists having to dispense the morning after pill. if your job requires you to preform a legal activity you can't just say "because jesus" and not do it.

They should be able to do that. I don't think the law should for e someone to give out something. On the other and the law shouldn't protect him from getting fired if his employer doesn't like it