Enthusiastic Crowd at GM Place for UFC 115 - UPDATE

I survived my first-ever (and probably my last) UFC event at GM Place. It was interesting. The fans were the most enthusiastic I had ever seen at a sporting event. And there were no major problems, according to Vancouver Police Const. Jana McGuinness.

In fact, the number of police officer in attendence at the event may have been overkill, though no one would have said that if there had been a problem.

The sport did not grab me the way it has capiivated tens of thousands in Vancouver. I thought it was brutal, bloody and at times boring.

It struck me as odd that one guy could get taken to hospital, another get a broken arm, most shed at least some blood at the hands of their opponent – all in the exact same place where former Canuck Todd Bertuzzi ended up criminally charged and before a judge for throwing a single punch back in 2004.

You keep repeating taht a 15 year old is a first year midget, this is not true. It can be, but let me ask yopu this if a boy is born in October of 1994 how old is here through this current lacosse season? The answer, I’m sure even you can get this, is, 15. A kid born in 94 is a SECOND YEAR MIDGET. I guess when you’re just managing you don’t have to know a thing a bout lacrosse

Kim, you are simply wrong, a 15 year old with a late birthday is a second year midget. there are second year midgets that play up a year. Intermediate allows fighting. It is that simple. I am involved in intermediate lacrosse, stop making yourself look like an ass. my boy is second year midget and 15 he’s a late 94 birthdate. Is it that hard to admit you maybe wrong. Fighting is a five minute penalty in Intermediate, do your own research. KIM SAYS: And as a second-year midget, if he fought, he would be subject to the suspensions I posted. So why are we even debating this? You get suspended for fighting in minor lacrosse. That is what I originally said, I cited documentation and you still want to argue. You have not cited documentation. Sure some younger kids play up. But I am talking about the age groups cited in the rulebooks. I don’t know the specific rules for intermediate. But fighting is still not condoned. Otherwise why would there be a major penalty? My original point is that there are a lot of mixed messages kids get about acceptable violence versus unacceptable violence. Older kids getting major penalties for fighting still denotes condemnation. But I call a truce. If you like UFC, great. If you think fighting in lacrosse is acceptable, great.

You can fight in INTERMEDIATE which is for the most part 16 and 17 year olds. there are some 15 year olds that play in this league. So you’re wrong again Mrs. Bolan. I’m sure you’ll get your boy out of lacrosse by then. KIM SAYS: Intermediate is 17 and 18 year-olds. So you are wrong. A 15-year-old would be a first-year midget player and NOT in intermediate. Can you cite a link to the Intermediate rules you are quoting? I couldn’t find anything on the B.C. Lacrosse Assn website that said fighting at that level is acceptable.

Kim, read my post again, where do I say that 12 and 13 year olds can fight? I said kids as YOUNG AS 15. Nice reading comprehension, award winning reporter. Keep digging with your ridiculous comparissons. If you don’t like UFC, fine, I’m not even a huge fan, but the BS argument your not allowed to do it on the street is ridiculous. You can’t crosscheck someone on the street either but you sure as hell can in lacrosse. KIM SAYS: 15-year-olds are STILL in minor lacrosse – so you are wrong. The midget level goes until age 17 and is included in the rules I linked to. I provided documentation for what I said. You did not. Why are you so hostile? Can you not just make your points without bullying and insults?

Kim just curious. I had to go back and look it up but you posted Clay’s “secret” wiretaps on Dec. 11th and Dec. 12th. He pleaded guilty before these dates. He was sentenced Dec. 16th. Would the judge have had previous knowledge and heard the tapes? KIM SAYS: Yes – ALL that material and much, much more was in the court file. The judge had all of that and a bunch of stuff that was ordered sealed that I was not able to access. The sentencing recommendations of both sides had already been made at that point also.

A kid as young as 15 can fight in lacrosse and not be suspedned. Once they reach Intermediate fighting is only a 5 minute penalty. i suggest you get your facts straight before you spout off. KIM SAYS: I am the manager of a Bantam team of 12 and 13 year olds and they DO SO get suspended for fighting. I have seen suspensions this season alone. Check out the BC Lacrosse Assn. website.... this is listed under the Rules for Minor Lacrosse: 7. FIGHTING1st Offence – One (1) Game2nd Offence – Three (3) Games3rd Offence – Hearing by local Minor Commission

Kim you never answerd my main question? Why the need to point out the 2 HA guys put of 18,000 people in attendence? Again, you see more at Canucks games. KIM SAYS: They walked right by me sporting colours so I threw one line in a story. I was writing posts describing the scene throughout the evening. That one was an interesting scene, so I posted it online and included it in my story.

Kim, big fan of your work and still am but i think your gang focused journalism has skued your opinion of a widely accpeted sport. I have no issue with your position on MMA but i would hope you could do more research on the MAJOR differences between it and boxing and other full contact sports (hockey,football). Do a simple google search on the matter and you will find MMA to be far safer than Boxing for example. I am not delusional in thinking the sport is “safe”; every athlete thought enters an MMA gym or competes professionally is putting themselves at risk. Now that i have that out of the way….can you explain why you thought it was necessary to point out the two Hells Angels that were in attendence…..maybe you should attend every Canucks game next season and make a list of how many you see there? Oh wait you can just go to the Harbour Yaht box that they own and takes some pics. For a sport trying to establish itself as a mainstream professional arena you are biasly damaging its attempts. Do some research before using your position of power in the media to blab your opinions. KIM SAYS: My opinion posted ONLY on this blog was based on what I saw in the Octagon. I didn’t like it. I did not publish anything in the paper except fans saying they had a good time. But people have to stop bullying those they disagree with. No matter how much reading I do, UFC is still not something I would enjoy. And I have a right to have that opinion.

KIM SAYS: Alex, you are the one lying now. I have to ask you to stop. My publishing the wiretaps from the court registry against your buddy Clay was NOT illegal. He had already pleaded guilty at that point.

I get why guys like Mozambeek wish death, ass rape etc. on guys like Clay but it absolutely does NOT make it right. Punitive actions/words only create more problems in my mind. It would not surprise me if Clay was thrown in the hole for a face book page he has NO control over. Marc Emery was recently thrown in the hole as well. Because I believe Jodie taped a telephone conversation and played it. Even though neither was supposedly told it was not ok. We seem to only feel compassion for people when they lose all sense of pride and are beaten by the system and I don’t get that. I also believe people are so much more than what they do for a living. I understand why his daughter wants to reach out on a face book page about her dad. She wants the world to know she unconditionally loves her dad and I do not see how this is a bad thing. Please correct me if I am wrong, ok. We all have bias and we are all hypocrites because we are all human and not perfect but when we lose or compassion and empathy for even the worst of the worst we are lost souls, in my opinion.

Unbelievable that Canwest or whoever censors this blog feels that the word for nonconsensual sex which rhymes with cape must be removed. I suppose sexual assault is deemed to be more appropriate. Considering this is a crime blog, *** seems to be a strange word to censor. KIM SAYS: I agree. It is an automatic filter out of Toronto, so no one is actually making a decision. I didn’t know that word was included. I will inquire about it. As for your analogy. I never said UFC was illegal. Obviously it is not. I was simply making a point that there are very conflicting societal messages about when violence is acceptable and when it is not.

What is the difference between *** and everyday sexual intrercourse? Consent. Competitors in sport enter into an arena of implied consent, that’s why they opt out of the criminal code…whether that be MMA, boxing, hockey, lacrosse or football. Kim says, “Beating the crap out of each other is criminal even when it is consensual if the brawl is in a bar downtown, or in an alley off Hastings Street. But if it’s in the Octagon, well then, the violence is just fine. Isn’t that strange to anyone else?” Not really…I can have sex with my wife at home all day long, but it would not be acceptable in a bar downtown, or in an alley off Hastings Street. (well, maybe there it would be, but you get the point.) KIM SAYS: Ha Ha.

I think I’ll go out today and fire a lacrosse ball at someone’s head, or maybe slam someone into the side of a building, or whack them about the arms and body with a 3 foot wooden stick. That should be fine, right? Or, would I have to opt out of the criminal code. What a hypocrite…I abhor violence in all its forms…gotta go now, off to a lacrosse tournament! KIM SAYS: Kids get suspended for fighting in lacrosse and hockey, which I think is great and appropriate. The sports are physical, but their only purpose is not to knock the other guy out. Look, I get that you and millions of others like UFC. I don’t. I expressed my view. So what?

Whatever you think, u owe his daughter and family an apology for that crap. Picking on grownups is one thing, but bringing children into your stories is a flat out punk move. KIM SAYS: I just explained the editorial decision to include the girl (no name, no photo.) Both she and her family allowed her to participate in an OPEN facebook page. That means everyone online could see her and read what she wrote. Reporting that is not exposing her any more than she was already exposed. I agree that kids and families should generally be left out of stories about criminal relatives. But when they write letters of support that are read in open court and on the public file, I will often report that. And when they are on wiretap apparently well aware of the criminal activity of their loved one, as Roueche’s dad appeared to be, that is also relevant information for a story. Obviously you disagree and that is fine. But to just launch in to verbal abuse without articulating any of your points or concerns is beneath you Alex.

Yes it is me. And even through all your BS over the last 2 years I always tried to stay reasonable. But you crossed the line with your little facebook story, and to top it off, you had the nerve to bring his child into your story. You can go after Clay all you want, but when you start talking about peoples kids you crossed a line. She asked for a copy of a picture of her dad and you thought that was important enough to share with the world. The guy got 30 years, and you still dont have enough respect to let him be. And to call the Jails and BOP to ask about pictures and facebook, Im sure in the back of your head you were hoping to get him sent to the hole. See, it just shows that people like you and the cops cant handle the fact that he stays positive in the face of all challenges. Even when you wrote your lies and BS I always tried to be civil to you, but you have proven that you werent worthy of that civility. And then to top it off, you $hit on the UFC. And we both know the only reason you went to those fights was because you seem to have MMA connected to gangs and by doing so disrepected every person who has dedicated their life to bettering themselves through martial arts and developing a warrior spirit. It has to say something when you are able to enrage even civil minded people with your crap. You write a story where you say you learned that clay has no internet access, but you write a story saying that HE was saying things on there. As one of th moderators of that page I can tell you first hand he has NO way of changing anything on that page, and many of the posts were done by me, not him. But that doesnt make a good story for you does it. Im sure you would like him to have no contact with family or friends for whatever vindictive reason you have in your head. But you cannot or will not be able to ever stop the love and respect his friends have for him. Im sure if he sucked your a$$ like Anton did, you would only write good things about him. But he chose to plead guilty on charges that he knew were greatly exaggerated becuase he had HONOR, something most people will never understand. But I should almost thank you for your story, support from around the world has been pouring in since then. But you should be ashamed for writing about his daughter, you showed your true colors. Never once in the last 2 years had I stooped to mentioning your family or children until you pulled that $hit. KIM SAYS: Well at least I know why you’re mad now. I did not name the teen and I found it disturbing that she was on that public page chatting away with her photo. I am glad it was made a private page for her sake. And I don’t make these decisions alone. We discussed whether to mention the girl among several editors. The final decision was to include her (no name, no photo) because anyone on the web could have found that material and seen her there. I appreciate that you are a very loyal friend. I’m sure Clay has some good qualities. But he also committed MANY, MANY crimes. He not only admitted to some them south of the border, but is implicated in murder plots here in Canada. Because of that, he will likely remain in the news. And the Facebook page and the comments FROM him posted on it indicated he was not completely sincere with Judge Lasnik last December. I was not trying to get him thrown in the hole. I was very clear he was NOT breaking any rule. I did think it was interesting that he was paying hommage to his gang-mates. And my stories are accurate. You may not like what I choose to write about, but they have real facts and real information in them. And yeah, I don’t like UFC. So what?

Hi Alex, I understand even reasonable people can be pushed to their limits. I found two Ernest Hemingway quotes I would like to share with you. Personal columnists are jackals and no jackal has been known to live on grass once he had learned about meat – no matter who killed the meat for him. and my favourite quote The world breaks everyone, and afterward, some are strong at the broken places.

KIM SAYS: No I don’t Alex. There is SO much unsubstantiated and untrue material in this post, I am removing it. Are you Clay’s friend Alex? I am kind of surprised if you are as I actually thought you were a reasonable guy.

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