What jumps up and bites you on the leg of course, is Dubai is a Tier II, and Indian Wells is a Tier I. That begs certain questions.

Should Dubai be a Tier I?

Should Indian Wells be a Tier II?

Should they both be Tier I?

Should IW be only one week?

Is four Tier I's out of five tournaments insane? (yes)

La Reine

Feb 27th, 2005, 06:24 AM

Dubai is obviously shelling out appearance fee. I think it should remain as is. Even if it were Tier V the field is bound to be strong there.

tennnisfannn

Feb 27th, 2005, 06:26 AM

IW is a super tier 1, 96 in the draw and a winners check that if half the size of a slam.

Volcana

Feb 27th, 2005, 06:31 AM

Dubai is obviously shelling out appearance fee. I think it should remain as is. Even if it were Tier V the field is bound to be strong there.Really? What ARE the appearance fees? The field sure wasn't this strong in 2001.

ceiling_fan

Feb 27th, 2005, 06:35 AM

maybe dubai should be tier 1.... i think indian wells should stay as it is.... in the atp, don't they penalize players for missing a "super tier1"?

La Reine

Feb 27th, 2005, 06:38 AM

Really? What ARE the appearance fees? The field sure wasn't this strong in 2001.

Isn't it obvious? :rolleyes:

faboozadoo15

Feb 27th, 2005, 06:42 AM

i think in 2001 just loaded hingis with appearance money becaused they were interested in having the #1 player at all costs. that really got the ball rolling. remember, that was (i think) the first year of the tournament. they couldn't do then what they can do now.

Doraemon

Feb 27th, 2005, 07:31 AM

Having the Willy sistahz doesn't make the tournament stronger than one without them. In fact IW has no.2 and 3 in the world which is missing in Dubai so I would say IW's field is gonna be stronger barring a few top players' withdrawal. I really think the Williams sistahz presence in any event is over-ratted.. I'm sorry to say this... I just don't think they are as important as some ppl make them out to be... sorry... very sorry... don't hate me for saying this.. just can't help it! They are not what the tour is... the tour could do without them.... sorry... dun hat'on me...

Jeff

Feb 27th, 2005, 07:58 AM

It is clear Dubai is forking out a lot of money for their tournament. I mean they aired commercials about it constantly during the Year-Ending Championships in the states...the ones with the players pertaining to "Love Dubai." The corniest and fakest commercial I'd ever seen. I already posted about it before, but oh well, the commercial annoyed the heck out of me :p

Wannabeknowitall

Feb 27th, 2005, 08:45 AM

Yeah Dubai is dishing out a lot of money for the players and the tourni. Who wouldn't want to stay in a 7 star hotel. Who wouldn't want to play on the helipad. Dubai is a beautiful place. Dubai technology is even better than the grand slams. I can watch tennis online on Centre Court at Dubai. I can't do that with the slams. I think it's good though as a good Teir II. If Dubai wants to dish out more money to make it a Teir I than let them. But until then Indian Wells will be a weak Teir I and Dubai one of the strongest Teir II's.

Jeff

Feb 27th, 2005, 08:50 AM

That is definetly true, regarding the live cams. The Kremlin Cup has an online cam, as well. The only reason I can think of that prevents the Slams from doing the same, is that it will take away viewers from sponsoring networks. These tournaments in Dubai and Moscow do not carry so much coverage, so they can show matches online without really taking away from major networks. I do wish they would show the "not-so-popular" matches of the slams online, at least.

ceiling_fan

Feb 27th, 2005, 08:52 AM

what do u mean u can watch tennis online??

Wannabeknowitall

Feb 27th, 2005, 08:56 AM

I pay a certain amount of money. They have a Live video stream from centre court. I watch the matches on Broadband Live. Since I don't have the tennis channel, it's a good thing for me.

Jeff

Feb 27th, 2005, 08:56 AM

DHfan, yes, if you have broadband (DSL or Cable Modem), then you can watch matches live for the Dubai or Kremlin Cup tournaments...maybe some others that I don't know of. During the events just go to the tournament's official website and they have a link to watch matches live.

Sam L

Feb 27th, 2005, 08:56 AM

Really? What ARE the appearance fees? The field sure wasn't this strong in 2001.
:sigh: I've getting tired of Volcana's baiting. :yawn:

ceiling_fan

Feb 27th, 2005, 09:03 AM

wow thanks
now theres just the problem of time difference :rolleyes:

Wannabeknowitall

Feb 27th, 2005, 09:11 AM

Yup. If you really wanted to pay 25 American Dollars to see tennis on from 10 pm to 6 am your time, you would do it.
Even for the biggest tennis fans that seems kinda crazy.

ceiling_fan

Feb 27th, 2005, 09:14 AM

so what is that 25 american dollars every what, a month? or what...? :confused:

Jeff

Feb 27th, 2005, 09:17 AM

Well...actually I didn't know about the Dubai airing matches live until you mentioned it, Wannabeknowitall. So now I went to the site to join, and they say they are not taking subscriptions for the women's event at this time. Grr! Perhaps they are overbooked already for the women's :confused: Bummerz.

Wannabeknowitall

Feb 27th, 2005, 09:22 AM

I just think they are just waiting to see what happens with the tourni. They don't want people paying 25 bucks and then asking for their money back whena couple of players pull out.

Jeff

Feb 27th, 2005, 09:24 AM

Yeah I was thinking that could be it, too. Hopefully you're right ;)

hingis-seles

Feb 27th, 2005, 09:33 AM

Volcana, players get HUGE appearance fees for Dubai and Doha. Those dudes are loaded and can dish out the dough. Martina Hingis made seven figures in her two-week swing in Doha and Dubai for the inaugral events. I love that Dubai and Doha are getting the top players and being recognized for it. I attended the 2003 event in Dubai and it was much better than TMS Canada (in Toronto) which I attended last year in terms of facilities, etc.

switz

Feb 27th, 2005, 09:52 AM

who cares if they get appearance fees? the UAE does that with every sporting event and makes them world-class. it's good for tennis i think.

i still don't really understand why indian wells gets such weak fields in comparison to it's standing on the schedule. i find it hard to believe it's a political stance for myskina, molik etc.

i think it is with patty actually because they don't let rainer in the country and she gets pissed off. haha.

switz

Feb 27th, 2005, 09:54 AM

but indian wells has become a weird tournament. someone ranked outside the top 15 or 20 always seems to seek through. i remember the year gagliardi made the semis and hantuchova won the tournament and i think someone else not that known and hingis went to the semis.

Lemonskin.

Feb 27th, 2005, 10:05 AM

who cares if they get appearance fees? the UAE does that with every sporting event and makes them world-class. it's good for tennis i think.

i still don't really understand why indian wells gets such weak fields in comparison to it's standing on the schedule. i find it hard to believe it's a political stance for myskina, molik etc.

i think it is with patty actually because they don't let rainer in the country and she gets pissed off. haha.
Why is it a political issue for Myskina and Molik?

Spunky83

Feb 27th, 2005, 10:15 AM

Why is it a political issue for Myskina and Molik?

same question here?!?...maybe Nasyta is pissed on IW, cause last time when she left Doha, her first flight was late and because of that she missed two connection flights so it took her three days to arrive :lol: ...weird persons have weird reasons

Doraemon

Feb 27th, 2005, 10:19 AM

Stop complaing about IW's weak field (saying which I don't think it's weak at all).
IW is far more prestigious an event that Dubai, which happened to have a good field this year. Every year an event has a different field strong or weaker depending on players' schedules, health, etc. We better stop making the Wily sisters' absence the excuse to whin about the event's weak field. They have been no part of the event for three years now and I would say there's no place left for them in it now. I don't think the organizer is dying to have them back any way. The tournament has been just fine with or without them. The women's tour has so much depth now and it's not the same as in 2002 or before. The sisters aren't the ones dominating the tour any more and it's been a while since they got dethroned anyways.

I have no problem the Dubai event forking out damn a lot of money to attrack many top players cuz that's one of the legit strategies any tournament organizer can use. In a way it's sad cuz they have to judge the success of the event in terms of which players have shown up. Toray PPO may not have got as many top players but in terms of money they made during the week from the sponsors and ticket sales, I would consider it a bigger success cuz they didn't have pay as much appearnce fees to the players 'cept maybe to Maraia Sharapove.

Anyways, it's great for a relatively new wta event to have so many top players under any circumstances and as a fan I always appreciate their efforts to make the field the strongest it can be.

jacobruiz

Feb 27th, 2005, 10:22 AM

Having the Willy sistahz doesn't make the tournament stronger than one without them. In fact IW has no.2 and 3 in the world which is missing in Dubai so I would say IW's field is gonna be stronger barring a few top players' withdrawal. I really think the Williams sistahz presence in any event is over-ratted.. I'm sorry to say this... I just don't think they are as important as some ppl make them out to be... sorry... very sorry... don't hate me for saying this.. just can't help it! They are not what the tour is... the tour could do without them.... sorry... dun hat'on me...

Serena just won a Slam and is #4 in the world. She is a HUGE factor in a tournement. Venus has not had the same results but she is still #9 and very popular with ticket buyers, as is Serena.

You should try to consider the facts when forming an opinion.

Doraemon

Feb 27th, 2005, 10:27 AM

Serena just won a Slam and is #4 in the world. She is a HUGE factor in a tournement. Venus has not had the same results but she is still #9 and very popular with ticket buyers, as is Serena.

You should try to consider the facts when forming an opinion.

They may be popular and sell tickets but the thing is with them playing or not, the stands fill up! When the tickets are sold out, it doesn't make any difference whether there is more ticket-selling players or not!

switz

Feb 27th, 2005, 11:28 AM

Why is it a political issue for Myskina and Molik?

i said i find it hard to believe that is a political stance for them. it is for patty and the williams sisters (i think. maybe moral stance)

vutt

Feb 27th, 2005, 11:41 AM

Well Volcana I'm pretty confused why are you so enjoying this? I would be pretty sad, because now sisters must enter to lower Tier's together. Less points, less money and lot more work. Plus for you as fan no chance to get TV coverage of their matches.

Well I guess revenge emotions for you are lot stronger and sweeter. It's not good for human being to be driven by negative emotions for so long time... :sad:

Doraemon

Feb 27th, 2005, 11:55 AM

Well Volcana I'm pretty confused why are you so enjoying this? I would be pretty sad, because now sisters must enter to lower Tier's together. Less points, less money and lot more work. Plus for you as fan no chance to get TV coverage of their matches.

Well I guess revenge emotions for you are lot stronger and sweeter. It's not good for human being to be driven by negative emotions for so long time... :sad:

Correction: they are being paid more money.

vutt

Feb 27th, 2005, 01:09 PM

Correction: they are being paid more money.

Ok, I did not know that. I doubt they changed prize money because of sisters. It must gift money then. Btw. how much? Does anybody know?

tenn_ace

Feb 27th, 2005, 01:35 PM

Well Volcana I'm pretty confused why are you so enjoying this? I would be pretty sad, because now sisters must enter to lower Tier's together. Less points, less money and lot more work. Plus for you as fan no chance to get TV coverage of their matches.

Well I guess revenge emotions for you are lot stronger and sweeter. It's not good for human being to be driven by negative emotions for so long time... :sad:

couldn't have said better....

Volcana

Feb 27th, 2005, 03:37 PM

Isn't it obvious? :rolleyes:Not really. Scottsdale used to regularly draw 8 or 9 of the top ten players, in this exact spot in the calendar. I think Dubai is forking over pretty big appearance, but I haven't seen one link to any article anywhere supporting that. And Scottsdale DID always have strong fields.Having the Willy sistahz doesn't make the tournament stronger than one without them.a) That has nothing to do with anything I wrote. b) Actually, of course the tournament is stronger if they're in it. Any tournament is stronger for the presence of a couple more top ten players.:sigh: I've getting tired of Volcana's baiting. :yawn:There's an 'ignore' list. Put me on it. Or just skip any thread I start. You have to know by now I'm not going to change.

icequeen

Feb 27th, 2005, 03:58 PM

Having the Willy sistahz doesn't make the tournament stronger than one without them. In fact IW has no.2 and 3 in the world which is missing in Dubai so I would say IW's field is gonna be stronger barring a few top players' withdrawal. I really think the Williams sistahz presence in any event is over-ratted.. I'm sorry to say this... I just don't think they are as important as some ppl make them out to be... sorry... very sorry... don't hate me for saying this.. just can't help it! They are not what the tour is... the tour could do without them.... sorry... dun hat'on me...

That's your opinion which don't mean shit. The organizers and owners do believe differently once you have a williams in any tournament you've got it made but having two is the jackpot. Sorry dude.

spartanfan

Feb 27th, 2005, 03:58 PM

Having the Willy sistahz doesn't make the tournament stronger than one without them. In fact IW has no.2 and 3 in the world which is missing in Dubai so I would say IW's field is gonna be stronger barring a few top players' withdrawal. I really think the Williams sistahz presence in any event is over-ratted.. I'm sorry to say this... I just don't think they are as important as some ppl make them out to be... sorry... very sorry... don't hate me for saying this.. just can't help it! They are not what the tour is... the tour could do without them.... sorry... dun hat'on me...

I think ANY and EVERY tournament would kill to have BOTH William Sisters play at their tournament, regardless of your dislike for them. They are hughly popular sports figures and celebrities, not just in the world of tennis, but also outside, especially here in the United States. And having just 5 of the top 10 players in the womens draw in the 6 LARGEST tennis tournament, is somewhat of a black eye and slap in the face to IW, especially when Dubai the week before draws 6 of the top 10 and its a Tier II.

Volcana

Feb 27th, 2005, 04:05 PM

Well Volcana I'm pretty confused why are you so enjoying this?Enjoying what?I would be pretty sad, because now sisters must enter to lower Tier's together.I haven't noticed that the current situation forces them to do anything. They didn't both play here last year or the year before.lot more work.Could you explain that?Plus for you as fan no chance to get TV coverage of their matches.Indeed annoying, but with luck it'll get streamed.Well I guess revenge emotions for you are lot stronger and sweeter.Not you best guess, given it's so completely wrong.It's not good for human being to be driven by negative emotions for so long time... :sad:How long is long? I try to avoid being driven by negative emotions at all. Five minutes of that can bring on a world o' hurt.

Paneru

Feb 27th, 2005, 04:06 PM

That's your opinion which don't mean shit. The organizers and owners do believe differently once you have a williams in any tournament you've got it made but having two is the jackpot. Sorry dude.
:cool:

Some people are just bitter and
can't handle the fact that the
Sisters draw in huge crowds!

If they didn't matter, why would the organizers
of Dubai be so happy to accomodate them?

Venus by herself was treated like a queen in Dubai
last year and got to sit with a prince or someone
last year to take in the final.

Also, why would the IW's organizers have been so eager
to getting them back after year after year after the whole dibacle?

Just bitter! ;)

Volcana

Feb 27th, 2005, 04:18 PM

The Williams sisters really aren't the point of the thread. I think there's going to be a Tier I in the Middle East pretty soon, which, given the situation for women in a lot of those countries, is a really good thing. Also not the point is any weakness of the IW field. IW has a pretty standard Tier I field. Dubai has a rather strong field dor a Tier II. Not as strong as Sydney in a good year, or Scottsdale got sometimes, but very, very strong nonetheless.

Perhaps all it shows is that ultimately, professionals are motivated by money as much as prestige. Certainly Dubai is an end in itself, not simply a means to winning higher tier titles.

hingis-seles

Feb 27th, 2005, 06:47 PM

Dubai has always garnered strong fields since its inception (except in 2001, its inaugral year when it only got Hingis, Tauziat, Testud). In 2002, Seles and Mauresmo were in the field. In 2003, Seles, Capriati, Mauresmo, Henin-Hardenne, Myskina, Martinez were there and in 2004, Venus, Henin-Hardenne, Kuznetsova, (I don't remember if Jennifer went back in 2004). These names are just off the top of my head.

Dubai gets strong fields and I do hope one day, we have a Tier I in the Middle East.

thelittlestelf

Feb 27th, 2005, 06:53 PM

Stop complaing about IW's weak field (saying which I don't think it's weak at all).
IW is far more prestigious an event that Dubai, which happened to have a good field this year. Every year an event has a different field strong or weaker depending on players' schedules, health, etc. We better stop making the Wily sisters' absence the excuse to whin about the event's weak field. They have been no part of the event for three years now and I would say there's no place left for them in it now. I don't think the organizer is dying to have them back any way. The tournament has been just fine with or without them. The women's tour has so much depth now and it's not the same as in 2002 or before. The sisters aren't the ones dominating the tour any more and it's been a while since they got dethroned anyways.

I have no problem the Dubai event forking out damn a lot of money to attrack many top players cuz that's one of the legit strategies any tournament organizer can use. In a way it's sad cuz they have to judge the success of the event in terms of which players have shown up. Toray PPO may not have got as many top players but in terms of money they made during the week from the sponsors and ticket sales, I would consider it a bigger success cuz they didn't have pay as much appearnce fees to the players 'cept maybe to Maraia Sharapove.

Anyways, it's great for a relatively new wta event to have so many top players under any circumstances and as a fan I always appreciate their efforts to make the field the strongest it can be.

Who said the tournament was weak because the Williams sisters weren't there? It's weak considering it's supposed to be a grand-slam like Tier-1 ("super-tier-1") where most of the top players usually play, and this year only half of the top 10 is showing up.

Sheesh, for not liking the Williams sisters, you seem to be a wee bit obsessed with them! :tape:

rjd1111

Feb 27th, 2005, 07:33 PM

Having the Willy sistahz doesn't make the tournament stronger than one without them. In fact IW has no.2 and 3 in the world which is missing in Dubai so I would say IW's field is gonna be stronger barring a few top players' withdrawal. I really think the Williams sistahz presence in any event is over-ratted.. I'm sorry to say this... I just don't think they are as important as some ppl make them out to be... sorry... very sorry... don't hate me for saying this.. just can't help it! They are not what the tour is... the tour could do without them.... sorry... dun hat'on me...

Most Fed Cup events have no one in the Stands. When the Sisters played the last time it was Sold Out in 6 hours. The highest rated WTA events involved a Williams. Since the Sisters quit IW I have noted TV coverage has Dropped on The Ladies. IW boasted record Profits last year. yes, the Mens matches. I saw many empty seats at the Ladies matches that I saw. The Sisters put butts in the seats. The casual fan who doesn't usually watch Tennis will tune in to see Them. Open your eyes and you will see them everytime you look at a Magazine rack or tune in to talk shows. At the high rates companies pay for ad time at these awards shows who did they feature two years in a row at the ESPN awards. Serena. Those two spots ran for ten and fifteen minutes. Those people don't pay that kind of money for nothing.
They have acheived first name status. Just say Venus or Serena and people know who you are talking about. Serena was even featured in a big Nascar promotion. (I have a nice pic of her in her Custom outfit standing next to The #24 if I knew how to post it. ).
Its doesn't take Rocket science to know that any Tennis Venue would make a hell of a lot more money with them than without them.

rjd1111

Feb 27th, 2005, 07:36 PM

I pay a certain amount of money. They have a Live video stream from centre court. I watch the matches on Broadband Live. Since I don't have the tennis channel, it's a good thing for me.

Post a link please. Its very frustrating knowing those matches are on and you only have these live scoreboards that don't work half the time.

rjd1111

Feb 27th, 2005, 07:45 PM

[QUOTE=I Love Omeko]Stop complaing about IW's weak field (saying which I don't think it's weak at all).
IW is far more prestigious an event that Dubai, which happened to have a good field this year. Every year an event has a different field strong or weaker depending on players' schedules, health, etc. We better stop making the Wily sisters' absence the excuse to whin about the event's weak field. They have been no part of the event for three years now and I would say there's no place left for them in it now. I don't think the organizer is dying to have them back any way. The tournament has been just fine with or without them. The women's tour has so much depth now and it's not the same as in 2002 or before. The sisters aren't the ones dominating the tour any more and it's been a while since they got dethroned anyways.

The womens tour does not have that much depth here in the US. The average person on the street doesn't know one Ova from another. They don't know who Myskina or Molik is. But they do know who Venus and Serena is. and many of them will watch them. The Haters will even watch to see them lose. But they are still paying.

Volcana

Feb 27th, 2005, 11:45 PM

The women's tour has so much depth now and it's not the same as in 2002 or before. The sisters aren't the ones dominating the tour any more and it's been a while since they got dethroned anyways.Well, I have to admit that's true. That last time either of them won a GS singles title was a month ago.

Cybelle Darkholme

Feb 28th, 2005, 01:24 AM

Having the Willy sistahz doesn't make the tournament stronger than one without them. In fact IW has no.2 and 3 in the world which is missing in Dubai so I would say IW's field is gonna be stronger barring a few top players' withdrawal. I really think the Williams sistahz presence in any event is over-ratted.. I'm sorry to say this... I just don't think they are as important as some ppl make them out to be... sorry... very sorry... don't hate me for saying this.. just can't help it! They are not what the tour is... the tour could do without them.... sorry... dun hat'on me...

Which is why Touranment directors go to such lenghts to make sure people know when they get both williams sisters in their draws.:tape: