I want to add to the subject of Canadian health care (from lang ago) because it seems as though all of the responses have been from those with private insurance, on top of what's covered by the government. So, here's my perspective as someone using Canadian healthcare (in Ontario) without private insurance.

Overall I would say the government healthcare covers about 80% of my needs without any problem. I don't have a family doctor (because I haven't found one I like) so I typically use walk-in clinics for doctor visits. All of the visits are free, all you need to do is show your Health Card (shows residence in the province and eligibility for healthcare) and the clinic makes a record of your visit so that they can be paid by the government for your use of doctor time/supplies. It works exactly the same with family doctor and emergency room visits. Have health card? Don't pay. So I'll never have to worry about dying because I can't afford to visit a doctor but tat doesn't mean it's perfect.

Where costs can start to add up for people without insurance is for any treatment that is considered elective. Unfortunately this usually means things like visiting a dentist or optometrist are not covered by government health care. It can also apply to certain treatments for a whole variety of diseases like cancer, heart conditions, arthritis... Basically, if a general practitioner or your doctor doesn't refer you to a specialist or they don't think you NEED specific treatment, you have to pay for any treatment not considered essential. I've been holding off on visiting a dentist for my wisdom teeth because I know it will cost me a couple thousand without private insurance.

Prescription drugs follow the same sort of rules. Some are be subsidized by the government to make them cheaper. But most drugs are sold at full price and are expensive if you don't have private insurance. I've paid anywhere from $8 - $38 for a pack of birth control pills depending on where they were purchased. My college clinic and women's health clinics have cheap birth control, while straight up pharmacies are more expensive.

Happily for me though, I've just joined a union that gives you the option of private health care. I still have to pay for it, but the cost is lowered because we get group pricing. With this private insurance I will have 80% of dental and drugs covered, along with a slew of other perks like an allowance for massages and orthotic shoes. Those two sound crazy, but when you work in an industry where 60hrs a week, on your feet, doing physical work is the norm they are damn near essential.

I love that we have government subsidized health care in Canada, and there is no way in hell that I would trade it for the American way. That doesn't mean that it is an all encompassing perfect system though, and I think most people are in the best position when they have private insurance along with what is provided by the government.

Yeah, what can you really say at this point. It's feeling like a return to grass roots movements is about the only thing I can do at this point. Sadly my province came out almost unanimously conservative - this does not bode well for our upcoming provincial election and I fear the NDP may be getting the boot.

I think it's a bad time for an election, simply because most people don't want one right now. It's also a particularly bad time in Manitoba because we're going to be in the middle of fighting a flood and I would bet getting to the poles isn't the first priority for many.

That being said, I hope hope hope the liberals can get it together enough to get the conservatives out. They really need to get right out in front of their campaign instead of waiting for the conservatives to define what they are. I hate all the bullshit that flies around during elections so I avoid any of the election ads if I can. My riding is strongly NDP so I don't expect any changes there but I'm still doing as much research as I can on all the parties and what they're offering. I'm going to be annoying to everyone I know and pester them to vote this time.

Great idea, Ruth and Naomi...and we should work in that beautiful love story between David and Jonathan!

Don't you really ever wonder if Christians even read the Bible? I mean it endorses slavery and genocide..tells tales of patriarchs who tell the evil men of Sodom and Gomorrah to "do what they wish" with his virgin daughters as long as they don't touch the angels of the Lord. It says that if a man rapes a woman, he should make it right by marrying her!! And if people are going to pick things out of Leviticus and Deuteronomy, they should at least own ALL that crazy stuff. No wearing mixed fibers...no growing more than one kind of plant in a field, no sitting on the chair tarnished by a menstruating woman. It's all the word of God, right?

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"The U.S. is the only nation on Earth to pass from barbarism into decadence without once passing through an era of civilization."

I love your idea of re-creating the chick tracts...Since fundies are always against promoting masturbation to teens as a way to prevent pregnancy, I always wanted to come up with some fake religeous-looking papers that suggested lesbianism as a perfect form of birth control. It would be 100% effective, after all.

omg I love that idea koffeewitch! We should do the lesbianism tract it together, now if we could find some relevant sounding bible passages. Maybe something from the book of Ruth?

I love your idea of re-creating the chick tracts...Since fundies are always against promoting masturbation to teens as a way to prevent pregnancy, I always wanted to come up with some fake religeous-looking papers that suggested lesbianism as a perfect form of birth control. It would be 100% effective, after all.

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"The U.S. is the only nation on Earth to pass from barbarism into decadence without once passing through an era of civilization."

koffeewitch, I'm not sure, but I do seem to remember something like that happening and you don't see those tracts very much up here.

You can buy some of them at a local comic shop downtown. I think they have anthropological value more than anything else

I sometimes pick them up when I'm in New York - they have this big, obnoxious table of this drivel in the 42nd St subway station. I have it in mind to sabotage the table one day, by replacing them with my own altered chick tracts criticizing the hate.

hey northern neighbors...(I actually just learned that the US military likes to call you "cannuckistan"; I'm sure you're slayed by their great satirical wit)...

Anyway, is it true that those stupid "chick tracts" are illegal in Canada? You've seen them...they are these doomsdayish cartoon gospel pamphlets that get passed out by religious fundies.http://www.chick.com/catalog/tractlist.aspThey usually have titles like, "WHere Will YOU Spend Eternity"??? with flames and devils and scare tactics, etc. I heard Canada had banned these under a hate speech law...I sorta wondered if anybody remembered this; I'm sure it would've caused an uprising about religious freedom. I'm kinda interested in Canadian opinion about this issue. Personally, though I hate the stupid fucking things, I'm a little frightened of a government banning them outright. When I was in my twenties I wanted to see hate crime laws on the books, now that I'm older/even more cynical I don't feel I can trust the government not to use those laws against me when (verbally) attacking politicains, corporations, etc. The US, as you probably are aware, already uses terrorist laws to nail enviromentalists! I guess I'm sort of looking for some opinions on the hate speech/hate crime laws from Canadians. In states that do have hate crime laws on the books, they are rarely enforced in obviously appropriotate situations (like lesbian couples beaten while the perps scream "dykes, queers", etc. at them).What do you guys think?

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"The U.S. is the only nation on Earth to pass from barbarism into decadence without once passing through an era of civilization."

Wow, I had been wondering why I couldn't find that info on those types of products recently, and cursing the manufacturers for not including it! What an insidious way to decimate those businesses. I wish that more health food/vitamin stores would put up notices to that effect informing people about why the labels lack that information now, and where to find it. Has this been going on forever and I've been oblivious?

Canada and the states. It's getting hard to buy certain things and NOTHING can be labelled or promoted as having health benefits unless it is a pharmaceutical drug. I read recently about a company in cali growing and selling walnuts having to remove heart healthy claims on their website even though what they printed was supported by several peer reviewed studies. It's getting very, very scary out there for natural anything so stock up on what you can and learn how to grow or wildcraft and blend the rest.

Yep I felt it. Although I had so much coffee yesterday that I wasn't sure if it was a real earthquake or just caffeine symptoms. Perhaps I should cut back That is the first earthquake I really remember feeling.

I bet it was that damned fake lake, actually

Pepper, is this happening here in Ontario, is it nationwide? It freaks me out because those remedies are what my grandparents and great-grand relations trust and know.

It all falls into place, doesn't it? The recent studies "debunking" homeopathy as utterly ineffective (they can't prove it's harmful so this is the next best thing), the rigorous testing that natural products get put through (of course injecting an enormous amount of ANYTHING into rats is going to cause some sort of issue, duh!) that is far beyond what pharmaceuticals must be screened for, etc etc etc. It just pulls all credibility out from under alternative health practitioners who might object to the mass confiscation and demonization of natural substances being used for health.

It's really bad here right now, we can't get MSM, things like cholorphyll are no longer allowed for use as a colouring agent, etc etc. And people just don't want to hear it, it's maddening! Giving a shit is an illness now, there's a pill for it.

There's a current attack attitude about all things healthy that is symptomatic of a larger overall cultural sickness that frightens me no end. Pursuing a healthy diet is now considered a mental illness, orthorexia nervosa. Here's what Wiki has to say about it...

"Bratman coined the term in 1997 from the Greek orthos, "correct or right", and orexis for "appetite".[6] Literally "correct appetite", the word is modeled on anorexia, "without appetite", as used in definition of the condition anorexia nervosa. Bratman describes orthorexia as an unhealthy obsession with what the health-conscious sufferer considers to be healthy eating. The subject may avoid certain unhealthy foods, such as those containing fats, preservatives,man-made food-additives, animal products, or other ingredients considered by the subject to be unhealthy; if the sufferer does not eat healthily enough, malnutrition can result. Orthorexic sufferers have specific preferences about the foods they are eating and avoiding. Products that are preserved with additives can be considered dangerous. Industrial products can be seen as artificial, whereas biological fruits and vegetables can be seen as healthy"

How do they justify saying that NOT eating that list of junky non-foods may result in malnutrition? That is some kind of spin, my head is still reeling...

It's all part and parcel of this movement away from health that big pharma is pushing and the government is astonishingly supporting. It's ok if a few of us do it but not if it catches on, no no, that's not allowed to happen. Contaminating veggies with animal based food bourne illnesses, illagalizing natural health products, marginalizing the pursuit of a healthy lifestyle... I don't know why more people can't see it for what it is.