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Topic: Theists, does YHWH do anything good in the Bible? (Read 7667 times)

There will be nothing good about hell, whatever that literally ends up being. Of that I'm sure. I don't suggest you choose it, because I don't think holding firm in a belief that you don't deserve to be there will be a lot of comfort. I know that sounds trite, but it's my honest belief. You don't have to quote Pascal's wager at me, either...leave that to Velkyn or she might get territorial on you.

God didn't create "moral" evil, or evil as it's own thing. Rather, He is the cause of the evil experienced by many in that He allows them to do the wrong thing and experience natural consequences. He also directly punishes.

Then you clearly have never read your bible. Or the quote I noted.

I have, but I don't believe that it means God created Evil in the same sense that you do.

There will be nothing good about hell, whatever that literally ends up being. Of that I'm sure.

You claimed that your god's punishments always yielded results that were good. Hell is a punishment. You've now said that there's nothing good about the idea of hell. I concur. Punishing children is justified by the goal of teaching them and/or keeping them from harm. That doesn't at all fit in with the idea of an eternal Hell.

There will be nothing good about hell, whatever that literally ends up being. Of that I'm sure.

You claimed that your god's punishments always yielded results that were good. Hell is a punishment. You've now said that there's nothing good about the idea of hell. I concur. Punishing children is justified by the goal of teaching them and/or keeping them from harm. That doesn't at all fit in with the idea of an eternal Hell.

I guess that ultimately hell will be the exception to that. But you have warning about it...don't choose it.

Three members of a Canadian family of Afghan origin have received life sentences for the first-degree murder of members of their immediate family.

The jury in Kingston, Ontario, found Mohammad Shafia, 58, his wife Tooba Yahya, 42, and their son Hamed, 21, guilty of murdering Shafia's three daughters and his other wife in a so-called “honor killing.”

Geeti, 13, Sahar, 17, Zainab, 19, and Shafia's other wife Rona Amir Mohammad, 52, were found drowned in a car in a canal in Kingston, Ontario, in June 2009.

I guess that ultimately hell will be the exception to that. But you have warning about it...don't choose it.

Free will is not possible in the Christian worldview. That's why it's never mentioned in the bible. Christiands are supposed to obey god. That's why we have god mind-controlling the pharoah to make him refuse Moses. It's why there are "Commandments".

The very notion of heaven and hell makes free will an impossibility in and of itself. One cannot have free will if we are commanded to make certain choices or face punishment. That's "circumstantial" will at best.

Furthermore the idea of an all-knowing god also removes any free will since in order to know the outcome ahead of time the outcome must already be set.

Also, I'll direct you to this part that you're overlooking from the other thread.

You cannot blame this suffering on us. God created us. He made us imperfect. He made us knowing this would happen and how we would turn out. He can stop it anytime that he wants to. For that matter he could have simply made us better than he did so that these things wouldn't have happened.

Also keep in mind that god could have simply created us without the ability to do evil. It does not interfere with free will. We wold still have choice we just would not have the ability. Just as I can choose to try and fly, but I don't have the ability to do so. However god made us perfectly capable of evil, then sat back and did nothing while we committed it.

The bottomline is that, by your own admission, the buck stops with god. This is entirely his fault since we have no other choice but to be as we are. Remember, you have already admitted that god knew it would turn out like this. So we had no say in the matter of any of this. It if the fault of the god who created us with full knowledge of the consequences of such an action.

That's the thing with an omnipotent deity. Ultimately the buck always stops with him.[/quote

Logged

"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.Spartan Reply: If.

If someone tells you that from now on, if you step on a crack, it'll break your mother's back...are you then choosing to break your mother's back by going and stepping on a crack? Remember, from now onward, so you can't prove it one way or the other.

You can only choose options in which you believe, mm. Frankly, I'm keen to avoid the awful hell that people get sent to for believing in gods. Can you prove it doesn't exist? Stay safe!

I guess that ultimately hell will be the exception to that. But you have warning about it...don't choose it.

No, we don't have a choice. Not in the least.

You can not CHOOSE to believe something. If you think you can, then try to CHOOSE to believe in Santa Claus to see if you can do it. You either believe something or you don't, and that is based on evidence and experience.

The bottom line is this. If God exists, he gave you the experience and evidence you need in order to believe in him, yet he has not remotely done the same for us. In that respect, whether we go to hell or not is undoubtedly HIS choice. God's choice. He could give us all the evidence we need right here and now, but he chooses not to. And even if we were to SAY we believe in God, then God would ultimately KNOW we were just trying to fool him to cover our own ass, don't you think?

The other possibility is that God isn't real, there is no such thing as heaven or hell, and nobody has to worry about it at all. Since there is not a single shred of evidence to support the notion of heaven or hell, I'm going with that with a completely clear conscience and no fear at all.

as someone said earlier this omnipotence is going to be the death of yahweh. he just cant be everything his followers want him to be or that he's described as. Had he stayed as whatever tribes god of war he'd be more believable... but still a myth. However, his lemmings wouldnt paint themselves into every available corner.

Theyd be better served claiming the real yahweh was the god of the OT and they were believing to save their own ass. thats the only version that even makes an attempt at making sense. Like he's the mad jealous boyfriend in the sky looking over you, you know you should leave, but youre scared to. Reason, though, has a safe haven for you.