Now I Understand More Why Brides Need To Overspend...

I was talking to my sister yesterday about the upcoming GRADE 9 graduation of my niece. It seems that the following is now normal for GRADE 9 grad: fancy dress ($250), new shoes, new makeup, hair done, nails done, dinner somewhere and party after. Now, did I mention this is for GRADE 9 grad??? So, for grade 12, it's the same again, but with bells on, including limo, fancier dress, extra-nice dinner and so on.

So, what happens when these same girls get married? Well, since they already made such a splash with their grad(s), everything has to be bigger, better, splashier and more expensive, otherwise how will they feel more 'special'?

We didn't have 'grad' when I left school, even University graduation was just a nice little lunch out with my proud parents. So when I got married, I was thrilled with my nice little (affordable) wedding. I hadn't got accustomed to bling, so anything made me feel 'special'.

I was talking to my sister yesterday about the upcoming GRADE 9 graduation of my niece. It seems that the following is now normal for GRADE 9 grad: fancy dress ($250), new shoes, new makeup, hair done, nails done, dinner somewhere and party after. Now, did I mention this is for GRADE 9 grad??? So, for grade 12, it's the same again, but with bells on, including limo, fancier dress, extra-nice dinner and so on.

So, what happens when these same girls get married? Well, since they already made such a splash with their grad(s), everything has to be bigger, better, splashier and more expensive, otherwise how will they feel more 'special'?

We didn't have 'grad' when I left school, even University graduation was just a nice little lunch out with my proud parents. So when I got married, I was thrilled with my nice little (affordable) wedding. I hadn't got accustomed to bling, so anything made me feel 'special'.

Anyway, just an observation.

I applaud people doing for their kids at their economic level.They can spend their money any way they want.How about we criticize them for not doing for their kidswhen obviously they can afford it?

Class envy is boring, small minded and divisive.

Besides those are the people who would be our customers.Don't bite the hand that feeds. Hello-o

I'll tell you what is divisive: it's my sister feeling guilty for being able to afford a nice dress for my niece when she saw girls she knew shopping hopefully for a dress at Walmart. Those who have looking down on those who have not, and yet another opportunity for conspicous consumption.

Regardless of who can afford what, we are over-indulging children. I too, am guilty of it to some degree. Even if you can afford to give your children everything - it doesn't mean you should. If they never have to earn anything - they will never appreciate anything. IMO

Yes, it's sad that some parents feel the need to overindulge their children. I don't think they realize they're doing their children no favors! I also agree with k8memphis...it's their money to do with what they will. It's scary to me how the rich are being demonized right now. We only make ourselves bitter and petty when we hate them for what they have. It's why there's a commandment about "thou shalt not covet". I know that my like improved dramatically when I decided to appreciate what I have, and not pine for things that other people have that I wanted.

So teach your children that THINGS won't make them happy. Do what you can within your budget, but don't let other people dictate how much money you need to spend to make your children "happy". Be thankful that those bratty, "me me me" kids aren't yours!

I'll tell you what is divisive: it's my sister feeling guilty for being able to afford a nice dress for my niece when she saw girls she knew shopping hopefully for a dress at Walmart. Those who have looking down on those who have not, and yet another opportunity for conspicous consumption.

It's over the top, like so much about this society.

I think I'll go an live in a cave. And make cakes.

I don't understand what you mean. It's both sides putting out bad feelings towards the other?

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But Dude, we're cakers. We're looking for the party people to purchase our wares--it's all good yes?

I don't think this thread was at all about "class envy". It was about society in general going way over the top for things are kind of trivial - IMO. Must everything be a momentous occasion? Some things should just be a small celebration - you know with family and CAKE LOL!

I don't think this thread was at all about "class envy". It was about society in general going way over the top for things are kind of trivial - IMO. Must everything be a momentous occasion? Some things should just be a small celebration - you know with family and CAKE LOL!

Ok. It's about class comparison. I take back the envy part reluctantly.What they did. What I got. Which was less & more.Everybody should do it my way.My way is better.They have too much.

It's very close to the 'e' word.

It's reverse envy.

Mirriam Webster on Envy:

Quote:

Quote:

1: painful or resentful awareness of an advantage enjoyed by another joined with a desire to possess the same advantage

So the op wants the princess to have less falderal like the op had rather than the op herself wanting what the princess had--so envy was the wrong word. But I don't know the word for reverse envy.

Listen to the news of all the shootings and the parties never to be no more and enjoy the freaking celebration. Hey let's all buy new dresses and celebrate nobody got shot today!! Er at least we didn't.

Regardless of who can afford what, we are over-indulging children. I too, am guilty of it to some degree. Even if you can afford to give your children everything - it doesn't mean you should. If they never have to earn anything - they will never appreciate anything. IMO

You keep saying we and us, insinuating that everyone on the whole acts like this. I don't and I'm sure there those who don't. Speak for yourself...and that's not a chide at all. When we stop speaking in generalizations, and only use first person, then we own what we just stated. And when we own what we state...sometimes it doesn't seem very attractive. And we change ourselves.

If my DD wanted to spend $$$ on a dress that I thought was unreasonable, I'd tell her to get a job.I don't keep up with anyone, cause I can't financially or otherwise. My kids are not materialistic, and thankfully not many of their friends are. My DH is thrilled if she gets something from the Gap but she will chose Wal-mart IF she has to spend her own money. She knows that I will buy her the basics (underwear, bras) and some other essentials, but any thing beyond that she is on her own.My son wants a new PS3 game he has to do chores or figure out a way to earn the money (unless it's a game I want too ).

I don't think envy or whatever you want to call it has anything to do with it. I think the OP was just making an observation on how society has changed so much with how we give to our kids, and what it is doing to their mentality about money and things. That is why they always want more and once they start planning a wedding they want SOOO much more because now this is their special day and it should be even more over the top than they have had in the past.

I agree that people can spend their money any way they want but there is a mentality in our society that we all need more more more. More will never be enough. We are placing thoes values on our children and they are growing up dissatisfied with everything. I think there is a working parent guilt, where parents feel like they need to give more to their kids to make up for all the time they spend away from them. That is why everything is a huge celebration.

In my family we do not so big birthday parties for my kids for this reason. They don't need to grow up thinking the world revolves around them. We can afford to throw a party but we don't. We make it a family event and honestly that is what matters most to them. Our kids are not going to remember all the junk we give them and big parties. They are going to remember the time we spent with them.

I don't think envy or whatever you want to call it has anything to do with it. I think the OP was just making an observation on how society has changed so much with how we give to our kids, and what it is doing to their mentality about money and things. That is why they always want more and once they start planning a wedding they want SOOO much more because now this is their special day and it should be even more over the top than they have had in the past.

I agree that people can spend their money any way they want but there is a mentality in our society that we all need more more more. More will never be enough. We are placing thoes values on our children and they are growing up dissatisfied with everything. I think there is a working parent guilt, where parents feel like they need to give more to their kids to make up for all the time they spend away from them. That is why everything is a huge celebration.

In my family we do not so big birthday parties for my kids for this reason. They don't need to grow up thinking the world revolves around them. We can afford to throw a party but we don't. We make it a family event and honestly that is what matters most to them. Our kids are not going to remember all the junk we give them and big parties. They are going to remember the time we spent with them.

AMEN!!!!Children now grow up and get 2 new cars a new house and lots of credit cards that they can't afford because their parents have all of this. When their parents got married they probably rented and drove hand me down cars and paid cash because they could not qualify for a credit card. Society needs to get back to that way. If your debt to earnings ratio is out of whack guess what ....NO CREDIT!!!!! so save more money. We would be much better off for it. Most young adults don't even know what a debt to earnings ratio is.

I mean even when my son went to culinary school, they were trying to get him to buy a house. (?) I said Jon, if someone wants to give you a mortgage, run do not walk. Then these years later we learn they've been giving to people left & right who not only could never could qualify--they didn't even try to qualify them!!! Like my kid at that time.

Regardless of who can afford what, we are over-indulging children. I too, am guilty of it to some degree. Even if you can afford to give your children everything - it doesn't mean you should. If they never have to earn anything - they will never appreciate anything. IMO

Prime Example: Paris Hilton. She has alwyas been given everything and appreciates nothing. Are we raising a generation of Paris'?! God I hope not!

When our first child "graduated" from grammar school to middle school, there was a big hoopla--fancy dresses, corsages, flowers, exclusive parties, etc. Too much too soon. I tried to get the parents to tone it down when our second child "graduated", but wasn't successful. By the time the third child was in fifth grade, I made sure I got on the fifth grade committee. Several of the parents who had gone through it before agreed that it had gotten out of hand. We scaled it way back to skirts and khakis and polo shirts and blouses--nothing fancy--and a barbecue/pool party (EVERYONE was invited) at the town pool. It was so much more appropriate for 11 year olds.It's the same way with religious celebrations. Many christenings, communions, confirmations, bar and bat mitzvahs are like mini-weddings. Over the top. My kids--at thirteen--went to bar mitzvahs at the Rainbow Room in NYC, and many other exclusive venues. I saw a child arrive at her First Communion ceremony in a limo. A second-grader and her friends were limo-ed to the circus in NYC. I attended a black tie affair for a 13-year old's bat mitzvah that was fncier than any wedding I've ever attended. The very elegant floral arrangements on each of the many tables were over six feet tall, and probably cost more than what most of us make in a week. It's ludicrous. Did anyone say conspicuous consumption?I did not want to compete with any of that, and couldn't if I wanted to. My kids learned early on that our values differed from theirs. They survived, and now they even get it!Then there's that reality show about the bratty Sweet 16 parties. Sickening.Yup. It's out of control. There's not much left to do when these people get married.

I think the bottom line is people (in general) grow in expecatations. The things we teach as a child go a long way. If you teach family, they learn family, teach materialism they learn materialism, and the list goes on. If I had a business, would I turn down an over the top, way to expensive for the occassion order, no. Would I want my children to think they needed all this that and the other at an early age? No. I would hope that they have learned to celebrate life without the limo, the 6 foot floral centerpieces, and exclusive venues. That celebration is being with friends and family not what you wear, drove in, or served.

[quote="Donnagardner"][quote="scavaglieri"]I don't think envy or whatever you want to call it has anything to do with it. I think the OP was just making an observation on how society has changed so much with how we give to our kids, and what it is doing to their mentality about money and things. That is why they always want more and once they start planning a wedding they want SOOO much more because now this is their special day and it should be even more over the top than they have had in the past.

I agree that people can spend their money any way they want but there is a mentality in our society that we all need more more more. More will never be enough. We are placing thoes values on our children and they are growing up dissatisfied with everything. I think there is a working parent guilt, where parents feel like they need to give more to their kids to make up for all the time they spend away from them. That is why everything is a huge celebration.

In my family we do not so big birthday parties for my kids for this reason. They don't need to grow up thinking the world revolves around them. We can afford to throw a party but we don't. We make it a family event and honestly that is what matters most to them. Our kids are not going to remember all the junk we give them and big parties. They are going to remember the time we spent with them.[/quote]

i graduated from middle school (8th grade) over 15 years ago and we had a graduation. We did dress up, and there was a big ceremony at the school, but nothing more than that. I think it's nice to acknowledge the milestones, and they are moving on to a new stage in life as well as a new school. I'm currently helping organize a "moving up" ceremony & party for my preschool daughter. My thought on that one is it's purely for the parents. They'll look so cute in their little caps & gowns and I'm just glad we didn't have to pay more for them on top of tuition.

I don't understand where this idea of "outdoing the last party" comes from. Yet you hear it all the time, "if they have that this time - what's next year?" We had the same parties every year growing up. My mom didn't try to outdo the neighbors or last year, just to make it unique to us. My daughter had a HUGE first birthday party, but all the rest have been tiny.

I am actually kind of....taken aback at this whole "x grade graduation" thing, myself. It's not a graduation! You haven't earned a degree, you just passed a grade! It seems utterly ridiculous to me, and devalues the actual ACCOMPLISHMENT involved with graduating.

I think this attitude is actually very, very unhealthy for our society--I see it as an outgrowth of the attitude that we can't let kids know that bad things happen, EVER. Well, if they don't learn how to deal with bad things when they're children, how are they going to do it as adults? I mean, sure, we should protect our kids from big things like abuse and molestation, but this whole attitude that "Nobody ever FAILS!" and that you can't punish a kid because it might hurt his SELF-ESTEEM...I personally think that's part of what's led to a rise in crime rates as well as to the economic downturn. It's no coincidence that it's the generation that was going to school in the 80s when that stuff started who are having their houses foreclosed on left and right and their credit is in the pits.

I know there's always families who are exceptions, but when something gets to the point of being a sitcom stereotype, it's not just a few families doing it.

So sure, I think parties are fine, but there's appropriate parties and inappropriate parties, and a "graduation" from x grade is inappropriate. Be honest, people, and just go, "This is a party because we feel like having a party." There's nothing wrong with THAT.

I kind of get both sides of it. There are a lot of people who have $$ and they lavish their children in rediculous ways only to not teach them how to take care of themselves. Spoil your children within reason. You must still teach them the ways of the world and how to be self sufficent at the same time. If you are poor or "not as well off" then live within that as well but teach your child how to succeed as well.

Let me explain. We use to do very well for ourselves. I did spoil the kids but within reason. I still taught them to earn what they want. Things changed when my husbands health went down hill. Now we struggle, hoping to pay the power and have food each month. But due to what I taught my children they still do for themselves well. My daughter did go to prom in a $300 gown, $100 shoes, and drove her 2001 SUV, all paid for in full by her. She has worked the same job since she was 15 and she is 18 now. She knew what she wanted for senior prom and she worked for it. Not envious or anyone who's parents were better off than us or looking down on anyone who can't afford the same dress as she has. She saved her money, she paid for all her things (even cash for the explorer), and she knows what it cost, how you have to work, and what you have to sacrifice to get the things you really want.

No matter what "class" you are in you should teach your children well. Who knows what will happen in life and where it will take you....you must be prepared.

Now as far as cakes.........that is different.....SPEND SPEND SPEND LOL

It's out of control. There's not much left to do when these people get married.

That's what I really meant with my original post. When something as relatively minor as a grade 9 graduation requires all the trimmings, what trimmings are left for the kids who have already had it all when it's time for a real celebration like a wedding?

And I do feel crappy for the girl in the Walmart dress, because had we had a grade 9 grad, that would have been me... Class envy, call it whatever you like!