i too would rather have kept the wotlk raid model, i thought it was fairly balanced and ive never quite understood blizzards claim that "people felt obligated to do both since there were 2 different lockouts" argument.

obviously my opinion and data is just from the small pool of my friends and those on my server but i never heard anyone complaining that they felt forced or absolutely had to do both lockouts. in fact it was the complete opposite for our guild. we always did 10 mans on friday or saturdays and the option of doing a 25 man pug was there for anyone lookin to grab extra pieces to help with the 10 man progression.

By that logic you'd eventually end up with the theoretically beatable but practically unbeatable single player raid mode after having stepped up in difficulty from 25->10->5->3->1!

Nawh please, there's nothing epic about killing a boss with 5-10 players IMO. 25 or even possibly 40 (but the logistical issues are far too big not to mention the pc requirements most raiders wouldn't meet) is my preference, and I couldn't give a rats behind about anything but heroic modes!

For me it's the other way around actually. 25s is where it's at, the real boss in all it's glory, so strong that you need 25 of the best heroes in the world to defeat him. When he's having a bad day or doesn't want to fight for whatever reason you go there with 10 people. That sounds much more logical to me.

For me it's the other way around actually. 25s is where it's at, the real boss in all it's glory, so strong that you need 25 of the best heroes in the world to defeat him. When he's having a bad day or doesn't want to fight for whatever reason you go there with 10 people. That sounds much more logical to me.

Lore wise this suggestion makes perfect sense and was probably the reason for 10 man raids and 25 man raids being completely different in tBC. (opposite of what you suggested but the same idea overall).

But it just can't work in the current "raiding model". The current game doesn't give two shits about lore or feeling and is all about optimizing things.

Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang

"I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"

That would make 10's much harder and still give the same loot.
I doubt people would enjoy that.

This is how the game is already designed. 10m requires much, much more executional skill (i.e. once you step foot into the actual raid instance) than 25m.

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With 25s currently being way too easy and enforcing very little personal responsibility, I'm not entirely opposed to the concept behind the OPs argument. Although I feel it should be done differently in execution.

Either that or 25 mans need a tune up right now because they're absurdly faceroll for DPS and Healers.

I'm not invoking blizzard and asking them to do it. doing it right now after everybody got used to the idea that "real raiding is 25-man" would piss many people off. I'm just saying that if I were making WoW from scratch and starting it on vanilla with 3 difficulties, I'd do it like this. logically speaking, if you need more people to kill the same guy, it means those people were weaker.

---------- Post added 2013-02-02 at 12:01 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Asmekiel

For me it's the other way around actually. 25s is where it's at, the real boss in all it's glory, so strong that you need 25 of the best heroes in the world to defeat him. When he's having a bad day or doesn't want to fight for whatever reason you go there with 10 people. That sounds much more logical to me.