I think the odds are probably just as good that someone is underestimating the "everyman" than I am overestimating him by thinking the "everyman" is ok setting up his own new smartphone/tablet.

I invite you to go to a major wireless retailer on a busy day and simply listen to people being sold devices, then. I concede that our milages may vary, but I don't think my folks are all that off from the norm. I mean, it's not like they're idiots (including stepfather, "my folks" refers to a nuclear engineer, a college textbook writer on statistics, and a lawyer). But they simply don't have time to do everything, don't care to spend the time doing it. They don't want to spend their time getting their devices working smoothly the way some people don't change their own oil. Most consumers *could* spend their time learning either skilll. Will they spend their free time doing so? My guess is no.

I'm not trying to estimate the average users competency in general. I'm talking about whether or not they'd even want to try.

I think the odds are probably just as good that someone is underestimating the "everyman" than I am overestimating him by thinking the "everyman" is ok setting up his own new smartphone/tablet.

I invite you to go to a major wireless retailer on a busy day and simply listen to people being sold devices, then. I concede that our milages may vary, but I don't think my folks are all that off from the norm. I mean, it's not like they're idiots (including stepfather, "my folks" refers to a nuclear engineer, a college textbook writer on statistics, and a lawyer). But they simply don't have time to do everything, don't care to spend the time doing it. They don't want to spend their time getting their devices working smoothly the way some people don't change their own oil. Most consumers *could* spend their time learning either skilll. Will they spend their free time doing so? My guess is no.

I'm not trying to estimate the average users competency in general. I'm talking about whether or not they'd even want to try.

I hear you.

But maybe I'm not being clear here.

I don't think "everyman" each has a son or daughter who sets up the phone for them or they're hosed.

I think most people who plan to buy a smart phone - the "average user" as it were - has the capability to buy that smart phone and set it up and use it to some degree.

And I think if they are going to make that purchase and not put time into it at all? Asking for too much. No device can be learned in a minute and no amount of friendly helpers can shrink down the time it takes to learn to use something - no matter your level of proficiency, it takes some time.

I don't think "everyman" each has a son or daughter who sets up the phone for them or they're hosed.

I think most people who plan to buy a smart phone - the "average user" as it were - has the capability to buy that smart phone and set it up and use it to some degree.

I urge you to go to the store then and really watch the other people in there. I set up my parents' phones because I can. They're not "hosed" without me...I just make it faster. If I weren't around, they'd ask the salesman...just like loads of people at the Verizon or AT&T store do every day. If that wasn't an option, they'd figure out the bare minimum of services, and leave it. But, like an oil change, most people would rather hand the object over to the expert and get it working right.

But, like an oil change, most people would rather hand the object over to the expert and get it working right.

OTOH, judging from the available data, most of those same users are downloading billions of applications and operating them, even if many/most are games.

There's no friendly salesman or geeky neighbor around when that is happening.

And, as I think we all know by now, games have a way of teaching folks how to use the more "serious" interfaces of a computing device. Like changing "settings" for instance.

So, in fact, for the bulk of administrative interactions with these devices are done by the great unwashed who seem to manage just fine.

When you first get a phone, it is something like a moving day. I could move my own furniture, but there's this eager salesman, itching to earn a commission. So, he (she) seems quite eager to do all that setup, contacts transfer, or whatever other similar task they can think of to make very sure the deal gets closed. So, the salesman "moves me in."

What's left after that? Not all that much. These are pretty simple things, administratively speaking. Change the odd setting back and forth to save power. Maybe enter a wireless password here and there. Install the next little app.

Every business of any consequence is advertising "download our free iPhone and Android app". Can't be that hard if corporate America is relying on it to deliver services.

I think the odds are probably just as good that someone is underestimating the "everyman" than I am overestimating him by thinking the "everyman" is ok setting up his own new smartphone/tablet.

I invite you to go to a major wireless retailer on a busy day and simply listen to people being sold devices, then. I concede that our milages may vary, but I don't think my folks are all that off from the norm. I mean, it's not like they're idiots (including stepfather, "my folks" refers to a nuclear engineer, a college textbook writer on statistics, and a lawyer). But they simply don't have time to do everything, don't care to spend the time doing it. They don't want to spend their time getting their devices working smoothly the way some people don't change their own oil. Most consumers *could* spend their time learning either skilll. Will they spend their free time doing so? My guess is no.

I'm not trying to estimate the average users competency in general. I'm talking about whether or not they'd even want to try.

So? They are going to have just a hard of a time learnign an iPhone as an Android. This is not relevant.

So? They are going to have just a hard of a time learnign an iPhone as an Android. This is not relevant.

Judging from my own experiences with Android and iOS, that's not true at all. As I've said, I have NOT tried Jellybean yet. But every other version of Android I've tried has been distinctly more complex than the iOS counterpart. Now, Android is also, out of the box, much more POWERFUL. I'm not saying which one is "better" as a universal statement. What I am saying is that given my own extensive time with each platform, if I wanted to get someone who knew nothing about smartphones a smartphone, I'd pick iOS every time, for the sake of simplicity. Now, picking a device for someone who knows what they're doing? That's a toss-up.

So? They are going to have just a hard of a time learnign an iPhone as an Android. This is not relevant.

Judging from my own experiences with Android and iOS, that's not true at all. As I've said, I have NOT tried Jellybean yet. But every other version of Android I've tried has been distinctly more complex than the iOS counterpart. Now, Android is also, out of the box, much more POWERFUL. I'm not saying which one is "better" as a universal statement. What I am saying is that given my own extensive time with each platform, if I wanted to get someone who knew nothing about smartphones a smartphone, I'd pick iOS every time, for the sake of simplicity. Now, picking a device for someone who knows what they're doing? That's a toss-up.

Me? I use both. Seems to solve the problem quite nicely.

Having recently set up an iPad and a Nexus 7, I can say the Out of Box Experience is practically identical in both.

Both then drop you to a screen with a the default set of apps, fully configured, and an app store sitting there to sell you stuff. Nothing else needs to be done.

Honestly can't see how that could possibly be trimmed any further other than making the device psychic or looking you up in Google's secret DNA database.

Speaking of the Nexus 7, I'm slightly surprised this isn't the main topic of conversation in this place. We've surely all received them by now?

Anyway, if there's any device likely to change the definition of "tablet" to not mean "iPad", it's this. When Google said they were doubling down on tablets, they weren't lying. The Nexus 7 is a great device: beautiful, well-made, with a fast, responsive UI, and a clean, minimalist look and default setup.

As a frequent Android sceptic, I can say this is the first Android device I've liked, let alone loved. But love it I do. Maybe not quite as much as my iPad, but it has earned a spot in my jacket pocket, a place my iPad can never go.

Agreed. I'm quite tempted to get one myself, if only to keep up to date with Android development.

I played with ICS on some HTC phones recently, and it's worlds away from the laggy, unresponsive mess which 2.3 and earlier gave you. Scrolling on those completely broke the pushing-a-piece-of-paper illusion and reminded you that you were just telling a computer to do something.

Both then drop you to a screen with a the default set of apps, fully configured, and an app store sitting there to sell you stuff. Nothing else needs to be done.

Honestly can't see how that could possibly be trimmed any further other than making the device psychic or looking you up in Google's secret DNA database.

Its actually even better then that if you're already an ICS user. When I first booted up my Nexus 7, Google had already loaded my user info and wireless network settings via my Galaxy Nexus. I was actually really impressed, I generally don't expect that level of polish from them.

Both then drop you to a screen with a the default set of apps, fully configured, and an app store sitting there to sell you stuff. Nothing else needs to be done.

Honestly can't see how that could possibly be trimmed any further other than making the device psychic or looking you up in Google's secret DNA database.

Its actually even better then that if you're already an ICS user. When I first booted up my Nexus 7, Google had already loaded my user info and wireless network settings via my Galaxy Nexus. I was actually really impressed, I generally don't expect that level of polish from them.

If you order a Nexus 7 via Google Play, it asks you if you want it to come configured to the Google account you're using to pay for it. That's an Amazon-level of attention to customer pleasing, and right there.

While I've heard many glowing reports, it sounds like there are some build-quality issues. No idea whether it's a significant percentage, however the number of posters at xda with multiple defective units is disconcerting.

While I've heard many glowing reports, it sounds like there are some build-quality issues. No idea whether it's a significant percentage, however the number of posters at xda with multiple defective units is disconcerting.

You always hear reports of the occasional defective device on major new pieces of electronics. It's part for the course, really. But I'm loving mine, and so is everybody I know who got one (and that seems to be a lot of people).

While I've heard many glowing reports, it sounds like there are some build-quality issues. No idea whether it's a significant percentage, however the number of posters at xda with multiple defective units is disconcerting.

You always hear reports of the occasional defective device on major new pieces of electronics. It's part for the course, really. But I'm loving mine, and so is everybody I know who got one (and that seems to be a lot of people).

Yes, I've seen plenty of raves, too. I'm keen to check out a mature Android tablet running a mature OS. However, the 7" is not for me, and being a thrifty, value-maximizing type, I'll squeeze all the life out of my iPad1 before I replace it. At least the ecosystem will be that much more mature when I get there.

Last Sunday I went looking for a Nexus 7 in store, the only store that had had them in stock not only was sold out, but had sold the display models as well. The whole order and delivery situation does seem to be in a bit of a mess in the UK, I don't think Google were prepared for the level of demand they have had.

Last Sunday I went looking for a Nexus 7 in store, the only store that had had them in stock not only was sold out, but had sold the display models as well. The whole order and delivery situation does seem to be in a bit of a mess in the UK, I don't think Google were prepared for the level of demand they have had.

Always a good problem to have.

I have to admit, when I watched them unveil it I thought "meh". But when the early reviews started rolling in, I knew it had a chance to make a little noise. I'm quite pleased for Google. They did good.

Interesting that Android went up by 3mil. Were those fires or something else?

Also interesting that Android kept pace with the market and during an iPad launch quarter (first full quarter). That bodes well going forward for them (of course Windows tablets are coming soon and that could prove very interesting). But good showing to not lose share in such a hard quarter.

Last Sunday I went looking for a Nexus 7 in store, the only store that had had them in stock not only was sold out, but had sold the display models as well. The whole order and delivery situation does seem to be in a bit of a mess in the UK, I don't think Google were prepared for the level of demand they have had.

Also interesting that Android kept pace with the market and during an iPad launch quarter (first full quarter). That bodes well going forward for them (of course Windows tablets are coming soon and that could prove very interesting). But good showing to not lose share in such a hard quarter.

Android tablets are at the same market share as they were last year. iPad grew at the expense of MS and RIM.

Also interesting that Android kept pace with the market and during an iPad launch quarter (first full quarter). That bodes well going forward for them (of course Windows tablets are coming soon and that could prove very interesting). But good showing to not lose share in such a hard quarter.

Android tablets are at the same market share as they were last year. iPad grew at the expense of MS and RIM.

Which is exactly what I said. Android kept pace with the market. That means their marketshare stayed the same. Their growth matched the total market growth. iPad grew faster. But then it was a launch quarter for iPad. Should be interesting to see this quarter as iPad sales sees smaller growth from 2nd to 3rd calander quarter. Android might gain share. Especially with some new releases.

I am interested in finding out how many Fires were sold. I believe we will see a higher number than last quarter.

Also interesting that Android kept pace with the market and during an iPad launch quarter (first full quarter). That bodes well going forward for them (of course Windows tablets are coming soon and that could prove very interesting). But good showing to not lose share in such a hard quarter.

Android tablets are at the same market share as they were last year. iPad grew at the expense of MS and RIM.

Which is exactly what I said. Android kept pace with the market. That means their marketshare stayed the same. Their growth matched the total market growth. iPad grew faster. But then it was a launch quarter for iPad. Should be interesting to see this quarter as iPad sales sees smaller growth from 2nd to 3rd calander quarter. Android might gain share. Especially with some new releases.

I am interested in finding out how many Fires were sold. I believe we will see a higher number than last quarter.

I'm curious how the international markets will develop. I know PCs are still growing there, and I've no idea if tablets just haven't made it out there 'culturally' or if they're really frosting-on-your-computing-cake lifestyle devices. Will PC sales crater overseas when tablets reach, or will tablets not take hold until every consumer and business already has a 3 year old computer? I suspect the latter. I don't think tablets are just toys, but I think the vast penetration of PCs in the Western World has certainly made tablet adoption faster. Especially for the small Android tablets, which are absolutely companion devices more in the ipod vein than the ipad is.

I'm curious how the international markets will develop. I know PCs are still growing there, and I've no idea if tablets just haven't made it out there 'culturally' or if they're really frosting-on-your-computing-cake lifestyle devices. Will PC sales crater overseas when tablets reach, or will tablets not take hold until every consumer and business already has a 3 year old computer? I suspect the latter. I don't think tablets are just toys, but I think the vast penetration of PCs in the Western World has certainly made tablet adoption faster. Especially for the small Android tablets, which are absolutely companion devices more in the ipod vein than the ipad is.

We already have some data points in multiple countries where cell phones, and smart phones, are growing in stead of PCs due to lack of infrastructure to support massive PC sales (power, cable, software, support, etc).

Given that tablets have many of the same infrastructure as cell phones (3G, LTE, wifi), I don't see why you expect PCs to establish before tablets become entrenched.

Walled garden antics: author claims her book is rejected from Apple's ebook store because it mentions Amazon. It's good that Apple is screening content to protect its customers, I guess... wouldn't want any subversive thoughts... (this specific instance is Apple but the same can be said for every 'walled garden').

Walled garden antics: author claims her book is rejected from Apple's ebook store because it mentions Amazon. It's good that Apple is screening content to protect its customers, I guess... wouldn't want any subversive thoughts... (this specific instance is Apple but the same can be said for every 'walled garden').

Antics, all right. I don't think this the really the right thread for this discussion, but FYI I recommend reading the Hacker News comments re this post, here.

Proving IDC's estimates are puffs of smoke. Where's all those Android tablets DCop?

My guess would be emerging markets, from the hundreds of small no name Android OEMs. Also I'm pretty sure the numbers from the case only count the tablets that Apple is claiming infringement on, not Samsung's entire tablet product line.

My guess would be emerging markets, from the hundreds of small no name Android OEMs.

For IDC's numbers to be accurate, this requires something like 98% of Samsung's tablet sales to be outside of the US. Is this really plausible? For the sake of comparison, 42% of iPad sales seem to be in the US. And why have Samsung's US tablet sales crashed over the last year (down 86%)?

Y3k-Bug wrote:

Also I'm pretty sure the numbers from the case only count the tablets that Apple is claiming infringement on, not Samsung's entire tablet product line.

Yes, but Samsung's tablet lineup isn't like it's phone lineup. There aren't a dozen model lines here. The suit includes the whole Galaxy Tab line, as far as I'm aware. What other tablets does Samsung sell in the US? They have a Windows 7 tablet, I guess, but I seriously doubt that's selling in quantities large enough to make a difference.

It's been clear for quite a while that there's something very odd going on with the Android tablet sales numbers, and it just keeps getting odder.

So now that the real numbers are out, it certainly is suggestive of something (faulty?) going on with the analysts figures/claims. Where are all these "Android tablets", and what's being done with them? What are they being used for? Kindle Fire sales seemed to have tanked, and now it seems like Sammy's tablets have tanked as well. Should every modern-day Etch-A-Sketch running "Android" be considered a tablet? I don't believe so. What's more, sales of these feeble devices should not be cheered as proof of a "healthy Android market".

So now that the real numbers are out, it certainly is suggestive of something (faulty?) going on with the analysts figures/claims. Where are all these "Android tablets", and what's being done with them? What are they being used for? Kindle Fire sales seemed to have tanked, and now it seems like Sammy's tablets have tanked as well. Should every modern-day Etch-A-Sketch running "Android" be considered a tablet? I don't believe so. What's more, sales of these feeble devices should not be cheered as proof of a "healthy Android market".

My bias aside, I feel comfortable predicting that Windows 8 will be the defacto number two tablet operating system within a quarter in the US.

Given these new revelations in the *iPad Market*, what might this tell us about "Android" use in the mobile handset space?

Sure Android is shipping on a majority percent of OEM handsets - tons in fact, but where are the bulk of these *activations* taking place, and what current data is there that sheds light on how these handsets are being used?