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what happens to people who are cut off ADAP? I mean its impossible that they are just left to die in the street, we haven't heard of something like this, so there must be some alternative method to supply them with Meds otherwise it doesn't make sense, it will just create a disaster in a state level ! some facts are missing here

ADAP Advocacy AssociationNewsletter – January 2009http://www.adapadvocacyassociation.org/pdf/2009_aaa_Newsletter_January_ADAPs.pdfIn 2003, eight Americans (five in Kentucky and three in W Virginia) died while on ADAP waiting lists, and in 2006 four South Carolinians suffered the same fate. In fact, thirty-five people have died on ADAP waiting lists since 2000. These tragedies were and are as inexcusable as they were preventable, and represent a shock to those who complacently believe that AIDS is a “manageable condition”.

yes, sadly sometimes people do die. Thirty-five Americans have died since 2000 while on ADAP waiting lists.

Here is another quote from that pdf that explains a bit about how ADAP is managed differently throughout the states:Comparing protocols of HIV/AIDS care between the states is tricky, as there are no universal federal guidelines to follow and each of the ADAP governing agencies (fifty states, plus DC and seven territories) manages its allotment as it sees fit. Legally, Ryan White/ADAP are funded as payers of last resort, but broad eligibility discrepancies exist. Income restrictions can vary from 200% to 500% of FPL (federal poverty level: $10,210 for a single individual in 2007, though an estimated 40% of all ADAP beneficiaries live at or below 100% FPL), and eighteen states assess limits on the assets one can own.

Although congress finally mandated a base list of antiretrovirals be included in each ADAP formulary in 2006, a patient’s access to other important medications, ranging from anti-depressants and other psychotropics to statins and pain medications (to combat side-effects) to insulin, depends on where he or she lives. Four states (MA, NH, NJ, OR) have open formularies, while two (ID and LA) have no drugs which are not antiretrovirals on their formularies whatsoever, and six (AL, MS, OK, TX, UT, WV, and the US Virgin Islands) pay for ten or fewer***. These ancillary medications are an easy, obvious target for those looking to manage rising costs by reducing formularies instead of initiating waiting

***hmmm. Recently my doctor talked me into changing my regimen slightly making it a similar yet easier regimen (one less pill and all once day now). However, somewhere I think I came across a report (AH! the link is below) that talked about how SC was changing their formulary to only cover 3 HIV meds per person. That would explain my case manager's comment about me being down to 3 meds covered by medicaid now, while the clinic was covering the cost of my 4th med (acyclovir, a non-HIV med). So maybe my doctor didn't actually switch my meds for altruistic reasons after all; but to reduce the prescription amount down to just the 3 the state medicaid will cover.

from a previously cited reference (http://www.thestate.com/2010/03/04/1185583/sc-legislators-seek-ways-to-patch.html):Those families are not the only ones losing health care help. The budget committee cut $10.7 million from Medicaid by imposing a three-drug prescription cap in a program for adults that now allows up to 10 drugs. The panel also eliminated the $2.4 million the state spends on AIDS drug treatments that now serve about 2,055 people monthly and slashed $35 million from the Department of Mental Health's $161 million budget.

As the tax break debate played out, Rep. Tracy Edge searched through spreadsheets for ways to spare the Department of Disabilities and Special Needs from shutting all but its residential programs and cutting off services to nearly 26,000 children and adults.And it's not just HIV poz people that'll be suffering in this budget cut (a budget cut brought on because the state will stop collecting corporate income tax), even though we do know that untreated HIV leads to death. Wonder what other multi-drug programs, as this was a Medicaid cut, are being cut for other SC citizens? Wonder if we'll have citizens with diabetes or heart conditions keeling over this Summer from lack of meds? Wonder if others might face death from the loss of those residental programs?

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leatherman (aka mIkIE)

All the stars are flashing high above the seaand the party is on fire around you and meWe're gonna burn this disco down before the morning comes- Pet Shop Boys chart from 1992-2015Isentress/Prezcobix

OMG... I thought there was an alternative and this is why they were considering cutting down on ADAP, this is terrible, I hope some HIV organizations ( Including this one ) will take action to stop this disaster

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I have to admit : the good thing is that from now on; I have no option but to succeed , still its ok to worry

A simple question in the middle of all the shouting which makes me happy since part of it is a socialist shouting which I worship My question: what happens to people who are cut off ADAP? I mean its impossible that they are just left to die in the street, we haven't heard of something like this, so there must be some alternative method to supply them with Meds otherwise it doesn't make sense, it will just create a disaster in a state level ! some facts are missing here

As far as I know, it's the only option if you don't have insurance or medicare/medicaid.

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It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

An argument can be made that the bottom-line problem to the ADAP disaster is the cost of Big PhARMA's medications. I received the following e-mail today from the AIDS Healthcare Foundation:

Save ADAP

AIDS Drug Assistance Programs Threatened

AIDS Healthcare Foundation has become alarmed about the stability and viability of AIDS Drug Assistance Programs nationally and in individual states. We know that all of you receiving this e-mail care deeply, as we do, about the health and welfare of persons living with HIV that we all serve.

We want to share with you our position on what we feel is needed to make ADAP more sustainable. Recently, advocates have proposed to the Obama Administration and Congress an emergency appropriation of $126 million to shore up programs nationally. We have no objection to this proposal. However, Federal intervention alone is not sufficient to curb the accelerating arc of ADAP spending. This fact seems incontrovertible. The undeniable driver of costs in ADAPs are the cost of the medications that are purchased. For example, in California since 2000 AIDS drug spending in has increased by 165%, but the number of patients served has only increased by 49%. This is equivalent to a 77% increase in the per-patient cost of AIDS drugs. Even with “price freezes” and rebates, the costs of the pharmaceuticals will continue to rise to a level that will bankrupt states, and force major programmatic concessions in eligibility and formulary. Our patients and clients will not have what they need, and people could perish due to lack of access. These are the stakes in this conversation. We all know it.

It is becoming increasingly challenging to argue that borrowed money from the Federal government should fund the purchase of pharmaceuticals without some other effort to capture revenue, particularly when the pharmaceutical industry is making sustained large-scale profits and the government is running crushing deficits.

AIDS Healthcare Foundation has proposed a few solutions: 1) requiring that for every dollar of federal allocation PhARMA contribute two dollars in additional rebate or price cuts; 2) for rebate states, drug companies pre-pay rebates based on historical averages, thus helping with cash flow and cutting reimbursement time; 3) set a limit on individual client expenditures and require that if the cap is reached, patient assistance programs be mandated for the remainder of the period.

These are a few brief ideas. Any one, or all of the suggestions are not the only solutions. But we must think beyond the constructs, deal and associations that we have relied on to this point. We are called upon by our ultimate obligation to our patients to challenge the status quo and have difficult and uncomfortable conversations. This is nothing new to the AIDS Community. This community has pushed back governments, challenged drug companies, protested and fought to win every major breakthrough to from drug pricing to Ryan White to ensure that those we care for are not discarded, forgotten or abused.

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"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

After re-reading this thread; I come to a few conclusions, and most of you probably aren't going to like what I have to say.

So many of you are totally uneducated about where your health care is coming from, along with that, your shock and amazement at the current fiscal mess that our HIV/AIDS is in, is astounding. For six years now, I have been trying to get you all to educate yourselves in the system that is Ryan White/ADAP, yet you accept your pills, take them and then make the assumption that there will be no end to the support and you will live forever.

WAKE THE HELL UP. It is one thing to make a post here that expresses shock and amazement at the current state of affairs, but it is quite another to take the time to pick up the phone, search the internet or in general, educate yourself about your state's RW guidelines. Am I pissed that you all think that "someone else" has to do something? Yes, because if you are concerned about not DYING to this disease, and want to continue living on and creating a really good life; then you have to get your shit together and do something, damnit!!!! Or become filthy rich so it just doesn't matter to you.

I'm tired, so I have retired from this fight, but all of you, women, men, gay or straight, have to get this thing going and really make a difference, or you will soon find; "nobody really gives a shit".

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The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,and 362 to heterosexuals.This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals, It's just that they need more supervision.Lynn Lavne

it takes 5 to 10 yrs to approve a drug here in the US, where as in the EU it only takes a few yrs. and we here in the US pay a very heavy price for this

personally, I like to have my meds tested and approved. You might not mind being the early guinea pig and popping some pills a yr or two after they've been formulated; but I'd prefer someone else testing the meds under the care and guidance of a lab, doctors, and scientists for a while before it comes in a bottle with my name on it. Fast track testing and approval might have been a life-saver in the late 80s or early 90s when HIV+ people were dropping like flies; but, thankfully, no one's life is that at risk today that we can't afford to wait through proper testing to ensure against adverse long-term effects also.

It is one thing to make a post here that expresses shock and amazement at the current state of affairs, but it is quite another to take the time to pick up the phone, search the internet or in general, educate yourself about your state's RW guidelines.

They'll have to study up more than just RW/ADAP though, Tim. The reduced formulary (covering only 3 meds) that SC is implementing is to the state medicaid program (which already doesn't cover any dental or eye care).

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leatherman (aka mIkIE)

All the stars are flashing high above the seaand the party is on fire around you and meWe're gonna burn this disco down before the morning comes- Pet Shop Boys chart from 1992-2015Isentress/Prezcobix

Man, you really must have been gone from the US for a number of yrs. NOBODY lives like that in the US, haven't you heard of the stock-market-crash of 2008, most of the those people who did live like that, are in JAIL, or they lost EVERYTHING, maybe a few politicians, and Bank Exe"s and a few Movie Stars might still live this way, but, not many

It is extremely naive to believe that stock market crashes or economic downturns effect the elite owning class.

the reason for lack of HIV funding in the US is because of excessive funding for Africa

My Lord you are so severely out of touch, it just amazes me.

Moffie, you have absolutely and completely miss-read my post - I was disputing the claim of David_NC that a reason for inadequate HIV funding in the US was HIV aid to Africa. If you had bothered to finish reading that sentence, you would have seen that I was saying that the budget for Africa has nothing to do with the HIV budget in America - in fact I blamed the fact that taxes are too low on the rich:

Regarding the idea that the reason for lack of HIV funding in the US is because of excessive funding for Africa, no, the reason for lack of HIV funding in the US is ridiculously inadequate taxation of the privileged classes...

Please, please do me the courtesy of reading my posts before attacking me. You are attacking me for precisely the opposite of what I was saying, because you totally misunderstood me. I am a thorough left-winger, and I do blame the corporations, drugs companies included - you and I are on the same side.

It is extremely naive to believe that stock market crashes or economic downturns effect the elite owning class.

I'm NOT as naive as YOU think I'm, I happen to actually live here in the US and you do not, that is a big difference, and to say that I'm naive living in the the US offenses me deeply, YOU were the one posting in other threads trying to get ADAP while living in Thailand, and you have the nerve to call me naive, I say to you BULLSHIT most people don't choose to live and work in another country unless, they are running form the LAW, or hiding out from something, that YOU cannot live in the US for hey if you like living and working in Thailand, that's fine.... it just seems very odd to me, that YOU can't or won't come back here to the US for whatever reasons you may have, and to say that living in the US would put you in poverty, sounds EVEN more suspicious to me, how's THAT for an observation

« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 12:06:05 PM by denb45 »

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"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

I'm NOT as naive as YOU think I'm, I happen to actually live here in the US and you do not, that is a big difference, and to say that I'm naive living in the the US offenses me deeply, YOU were the one posting in other threads trying to get ADAP while living in Thailand, and you have the nerve to call me naive, I say to you BULLSHIT most people don't choose to live and work in another country unless, they are running form the LAW, or hiding out from something, that YOU cannot live in the US for hey if you like living and working in Thailand, that's fine.... it just seems very odd to me, that YOU can't or won't come back here to the US for whatever reasons you may have, how's THAT for an observation

I apologize if I offended you. I only meant to say that the very rich are above things like stock markets and booms and busts - Bill Gates or Warren Buffet's power over their fellow humans is about the same whether they have 45 or 65 billions.

Speaking only for myself - I live in Thailand only because the quality of life is enormously better than back home.

I apologize if I offended you. I only meant to say that the very rich are above things like stock markets and booms and busts - Bill Gates or Warren Buffet's power over their fellow humans is about the same whether they have 45 or 65 billions.

Speaking only for myself - I live in Thailand only because the quality of life is enormously better than back home.

It must not be enormously better living in Thailand, are you wouldn't be trying to get ADAP to pay for your HIV+ Meds, hiding behind your POZ+ status in FEAR of your job, is foolish to say the least, if you lived in the US YOU wouldn't have to hide your POZ+ status to keep your job, and to get ADAP, and to say that living in the US would put you in poverty, I'm sorry, but I'm NOT buying that statement........but, hey WHATEVER works for you

« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 12:24:31 PM by denb45 »

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"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Speaking only for myself - I live in Thailand only because the quality of life is enormously better than back home.

LOL how so? In like a David Carradine kinda way? Anyone seen Dennis? So which are you, a tax paying citizen of the US or a resident of Thailand? It seems funny to me someone would be bashing the US while living in another country claiming the quality of life is so much better there, while trying to bilk ADAP for crap they shouldn't be entitled to.

I do, however, admire Thailand's voluntary emergency response team. It must be sweet getting your brains wiped up off the road by the nanny or the local 1rst grade teacher free of charge.

So which are you, a tax paying citizen of the US or a resident of Thailand? It seems funny to me someone would be bashing the US while living in another country claiming the quality of life is so much better there, while trying to bilk ADAP for crap they shouldn't be entitled to.

I'm an American citizen, skeebo, who resides in Thailand. It is not unusual for citizens of one country to live in other. Nor do I see a citizen investigating his eligibility for health care in his home country as 'bilking'. I can assure you that Europeans and Canadians have access to their national health care regardless of where they happen to be residing or traveling.

I'm sorry, but I don't have any link to my own subjective preferences, Miss.

I'm an American citizen, skeebo, who resides in Thailand. It is not unusual for citizens of one country to live in other. Nor do I see a citizen investigating his eligibility for health care in his home country as 'bilking'. I can assure you that Europeans and Canadians have access to their national health care regardless of where they happen to be residing or traveling.

And I know this. I just find it ironic, with your disdain and having to constantly "bite you tongue" while finding paradise in Bangkok that you would even want to.

I'm sorry, but I don't have any link to my own subjective preferences, Miss.

I'm an American citizen, skeebo, who resides in Thailand. It is not unusual for citizens of one country to live in other. Nor do I see a citizen investigating his eligibility for health care in his home country as 'bilking'. I can assure you that Europeans and Canadians have access to their national health care regardless of where they happen to be residing or traveling.

If your not paying into the US tax System, why do YOU think the US owns you anything, just being an US Citizen DOESN'T entitle YOU to anything, that is a horrible misconception on your part, but, yet YOU call me naive

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"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

If your not paying into the US tax System, why do YOU think the US owns you anything, just being an US Citizen DOESN'T entitle YOU to anything, that is a horrible misconception on your part, but, yet YOU call me naive

Berners, like every other citizen, is entitled to whatever 'the system' says he is entitled to. It can't hurt to ask. I don't feel entitled to free meds, but I asked what assistance was available and took what was offered.

Berners, like every other citizen, is entitled to whatever 'the system' says he is entitled to. It can't hurt to ask. I don't feel entitled to free meds, but I asked what assistance was available and took what was offered.

Care to elaborate on that statement? what were you entitled to, as far as US benefits, and what country of origin do you now reside?

« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 01:14:43 PM by denb45 »

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"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I do believe one of the criteria is being a resident of one of the states. Which state were you going to claim to live in Lord?

The point is YOU have to reside in that State in the US to get Benefits, and NOT in another Country, I just don't see HOW anyone that lives abroad would even qualify for any..... legally that is... traveling, and being on holiday isn't the same as actually living and working abroad ....anyway we are WAY off topic here, and I'm sorry for the hijack.....now, back to the topic mikie Thanks for the links and info you posted in this Thread, they were very informative and YES we all need to be proactive on this issuecause it can and is happening in other states as we speak on this......

« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 01:32:04 PM by denb45 »

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"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

most people don't choose to live and work in another country unless, they are running form the LAW, or hiding out from something, that YOU cannot live in the US for

Uhm, 'scuze me, but that's an awfully broad brush you're painting with there! I'm not running or hiding from anything - and I've been an ex-pat for nearly 20 years now. I would never move back and have all the health-care worries that people living in the States do. Never, ever, ever! Long live the NHS!

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I do believe one of the criteria is being a resident of one of the states. Which state were you going to claim to live in Lord?

Your question is directed at Berners but you quote my post, so I'll elaborate. His HIV has put Berners in a financial bind, as it has for most of us. He was merely exploring his options, and in fact merely asking in his thread brought some useful information. Of course it seems unlikely that he is eligible for ADAP assistance, but what if by some quirk of his 'home' state - let's say it's South Carolina for ironic laffs - he is? Would you begrudge him that just because he currently resides overseas? I would congratulate him on his good fortune.

We give free medical treatment to illegal immigrants, so it's not that outlandish to speculate that a legal emigrant might also qualify.

Uhm, 'scuze me, but that's an awfully broad brush you're painting with there! I'm not running or hiding from anything - and I've been an ex-pat for nearly 20 years now. I would never move back and have all the health-care worries that people living in the States do. Never, ever, ever! Long live the NHS!

Simplynottrue!!! I doubt there are any countries with national healthcare that don't have residency restrictions when it comes to ex-pats and healthcare.

I don't like what I see happening to the US either, but I wouldn't dream of trashing it on one hand then expecting health benefits from the US on the other.

THANK YOU ANN for setting the record str8, I knew you'd chime-in sooner or later

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"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Your question is directed at Berners but you quote my post, so I'll elaborate. His HIV has put Berners in a financial bind, as it has for most of us. He was merely exploring his options, and in fact merely asking in his thread brought some useful information. Of course it seems unlikely that he is eligible for ADAP assistance, but what if by some quirk of his 'home' state - let's say it's South Carolina for ironic laffs - he is? Would you begrudge him that just because he currently resides overseas? I would congratulate him on his good fortune.

We give free medical treatment to illegal immigrants, so it's not that outlandish to speculate that a legal emigrant might also qualify.

Good point, immigrants also happen to be on US soil, in a state where they can receive eligibility. Last I checked we never let Thailand join the union. This was the reason why I quoted you, you raised a point on citizenship and I expounded on it by asking Lord a question regarding state residency, which is a requirement for ADAP.

His original statement regarding his feelings on the US were rather broad and ambiguous, leading me to believe it was something other than just a healthcare issue and he has made other comments regarding the US in this same fashion.

So... my point was, if you hate it so much why fuck with it? I apologize to Mikie, Moffie, and the others contributing useful information to this thread for the hijack.

Leatherman,"They'll have to study up more than just RW/ADAP though, Tim. The reduced formulary (covering only 3 meds) that SC is implementing is to the state medicaid program (which already doesn't cover any dental or eye care)."

Sorry charlie, you're wrong. Medicaid/Medicare have nothing to do with ADAP Period! If the state is mixing the funding, they are wrong and breaking the law. The ADAP formulary is determined seperate from the rest of public funding, and the two should never meet. I was on the state RW/ADAP formulary committee, and because of the work we did, the state of AZ boosted their formulary quite a bit. Now that there are theives in the Health Department in Phoenix they redid the forumlary to only supply those drugs that are HIV specific and don't now cover anything other than those. Those of us who are on Medicaid have to try to get other meds we need under that program, but NOT HIV meds. Really, this bit of misinformation is one of the reasons I quit because people like you go out there and say stuff that just is not true. That was the reason for my post, and the reason people need to get busy and start learning on their own. Shit, the information is all out there but most want you and me and someone else to do their dirty work for them. I'm over it.

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The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,and 362 to heterosexuals.This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals, It's just that they need more supervision.Lynn Lavne

Sorry Moff, don't know why your panties are all in a wad. I actually agreed with your comment, AND expanded it. Sheesh! You were trying to get people all stirred up to worry about their health and the funding of their treatment and so was I. (ah, just like the bad old 80s and early 90s when we were all either dying or activists so we didn't die.)

You surely understand that many people have a mix of social services and various programs helping them. Obviously you don't understand that the situation is even worse in SC than just affecting ADAP. They are also cutting programs from the Department of Disabilities and Special Needs, SC state Medicaid, and from the Department of Mental Health. Since this is a thread about why South Carolina ADAP is being affected, as a South Carolina resident I felt I had the right to also discuss the congruent services (ie medicaid, et al) that are also being cut.

This information was in an earlier post when I found out the reasoning behind this ADAP cut for Matty. I guess since so many are more worried about some guy in Thailand than about this situation right here in America where people in this state literally died just a couple yrs ago from a similar situation- except it's even worse this time for the amount being cut and the programs being cut - you just missed that earlier post in which we found this SC budget cut is much much worse than just ADAP.

So yes, a poz person here in SC using social services, better be up on the RW laws and ADAP, just as you said. But as I added, that poz person better be paying attention to medicare, mental health, disability and other services etc, because it's ALL getting cut back in this state.

http://www.thestate.com/2010/03/04/1185583/sc-legislators-seek-ways-to-patch.htmlThe [tax] breaks come as human services programs are being slashed. Legislators have been besieged with calls from disabled residents and their advocates after Cooper's committee approved a $5 billion spending plan last week that would end programs for nearly 26,000 people getting help from the Department of Disabilities and Special Needs.

"We keep passing all this corporate welfare," said state Rep. Gilda Cobb-Hunter, an Orangeburg Democrat who voted against the measure. "What about the welfare of the citizens of our state?"

State Rep. Joe Neal, D-Hopkins, reminded House members that the lobby Wednesday was packed with people with disabilities asking that their programs be spared cuts. "They have every right to be concerned because it ain't over," Neal said.....Those families are not the only ones losing health care help. The budget committee cut $10.7 million from Medicaid by imposing a three-drug prescription cap in a program for adults that now allows up to 10 drugs. The panel also eliminated the $2.4 million the state spends on AIDS drug treatments that now serve about 2,055 people monthly and slashed $35 million from the Department of Mental Health's $161 million budget.

feel free, everyone, to take your discussions of other states (besides SC and maybe NC) ADAP woes, patriotism, and Thailand to another more appropriate thread. I plan to take most of the actual issue in this thread over to Activism http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=31714

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leatherman (aka mIkIE)

All the stars are flashing high above the seaand the party is on fire around you and meWe're gonna burn this disco down before the morning comes- Pet Shop Boys chart from 1992-2015Isentress/Prezcobix

If your not paying into the US tax System, why do YOU think the US owns you anything, just being an US Citizen DOESN'T entitle YOU to anything, that is a horrible misconception on your part, but, yet YOU call me naive

LordBerners hasn't renounced his citizenship, he's repeatedly written he's an American living abroad.

A friend was just reminding me how the U.S. government has funded many drugs almost totally. He said they have turned the research over to various drug companies for free I think. First, does anyone know how true this is? Second, does this include any HIV drugs?

It would seem if the government has paid for all the research and development and turned it over to drug companies, the gov't should get the drugs for programs like ADAP for free. This, of course, is dependent on whether the gov't has done this. I'm pretty sure I've seen where the gov't has done this on other drugs.

A friend was just reminding me how the U.S. government has funded many drugs almost totally. He said they have turned the research over to various drug companies for free I think. First, does anyone know how true this is? Second, does this include any HIV drugs?

It would seem if the government has paid for all the research and development and turned it over to drug companies, the gov't should get the drugs for programs like ADAP for free. This, of course, is dependent on whether the gov't has done this. I'm pretty sure I've seen where the gov't has done this on other drugs.

Yus, this is often the case. Publicly funded bodies make the initial discovery and then the patents are sold to pharmaceutical companies who develop compounds into marketable drugs.

I can assure you that Europeans and Canadians have access to their national health care regardless of where they happen to be residing or traveling.

Speaking for the Dutch: healthcare is NOT free overhere ! We pay a fixed percentage of our gross income into the healthcare system + an additional monthly fee (approx. €110)to cover the basic healthcare needs. Next to that you can buy extra care/coverage by paying a supplement fee (varying between €10 ->€50 p/mo).

It's a fable that we are covered "anywhere". If I were to travel elsewhere in Europe and something happens to me, Dutch insurance will only cover the dutch equivalence of the costs......the remainder balance has to be paid by the patient. To cover our asses 100%, we have to purchase another insurance.....travellers insurance! We pay for everything.....left pocket or right pocket.

If LordB was a Dutch citzen living and working in Thailand (and not paying taxes and healthcare fees in the Netherlands) he won't get any healthcare services in Holland. If he returns and has no job/income, he would need to apply for social security...wait for 2 months before he gets instated..and only then would he qualify for benefits.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

hehehe.... like any of us ex-pats do that! I pay taxes (and vote) where I live. But I don't expect any benefits from the States either, unlike some. I haven't renounced my US citizenship either, although I might just do that the next time I renew my passport (so I can get a British passport). Which is soon.

Actually, I don't think I have to renounce anything to get a British passport. Most more enlightened countries allow for dual citizenship. Unlike the xenophobic States.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

I hope you don't mind, Philly, what I'm about to post as I've become a little possessive about this thread you started.

This thread is about South Carolina state health funds being cut across the board,including South Carolina ADAP and Medicaid benefits.

It's pretty rude to hijack such an important thread (SC did have people, fellow pozzies, literally DIE from this very issue just a few yrs back) to talk about someone else's problem. Unless LB is moving to SC (and he won't be getting any help from SC so I suggest picking another locale to move to), I just don't understand why some of you keep discussing his issue here. As has been pointed out a few times, LordBerners has his own thread (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=31631.50) about his Thailand/American issues. You people really need to go over to the proper thread if you're going to keep discussing LB.

Thanks.

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leatherman (aka mIkIE)

All the stars are flashing high above the seaand the party is on fire around you and meWe're gonna burn this disco down before the morning comes- Pet Shop Boys chart from 1992-2015Isentress/Prezcobix

One thing is for sure whenever its related to health insurance it gets heated up! too bad we cant agree that Meds are Meds, a basic right more important than anything els, Our country is number one in military spending, I bet the price of one missile can cover uninsured people in SC ...urgggghhhh

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I have to admit : the good thing is that from now on; I have no option but to succeed , still its ok to worry

What with the snarky eye roll? Dual citizenship is quite common. Joe is right on this one. In fact, I know several American-Australian dual citizens.

MtD

He did the eyeroll because some folks hijacked the thread - it was originally about SC.

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It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

Dear God. Most threads are amorphous in style, it's just the nature of the beast. Not everyone lives in the Palmetto State and people are just relating their own personal experiences. Sometimes a thread veering off track reveals valuable information. It ain't the end of the world ladies. You'll have plenty of opportunities in other threads to talk about yourselves over and over and over.

people are just relating their own personal experiences. Sometimes a thread veering off track reveals valuable information.

yes, and there is already a thread with the "extra" discussion that's going on in this thread that's not about SC. If there are issues in YOUR state about ADPA, Medicaid, etc., you're more than welcome to go start your own thread

Just four short years ago people DIED in this state because of this funding issue. You are an insensitive jerk, if you don't think it's more important to discuss the topic based on the OP's original post than some guy from Thailand that wants to move here. I cry foul cause he's got his own thread. If the moderators aren't gong to step in and ask people not to hijacks threads then soon there'll be no sense at all here. Already permenant bans don't mean permenant anymore. It's sheer rudeness and bad net etiquette that's slowly destroying this place. What's the use in having guidelines, if the rules are going to be changed mid-stream or only enforced against some people but not others. No wonder so many newbies complain so much - there really are a bunch of hateful jerks here.

unfortunately my diatribe there will probably cause this whole thread to be locked eventually (even though I spoke nothing but the truth), so let me leave this description of what caused people in America to die being not being able to have access to HIV meds just 4 years ago.

Columbia, SC— The South Carolina Budget and Control Board approved over $111 million in state spending at this morning’s meeting – including over $10 million for research on a Confederate-era submarine – but failed to take any action to provide emergency funding for the state AIDS Drug Assistance Program.

Four state residents have died of AIDS-related complications in recent weeks while on the 324-person ADAP waiting list.

“Poor people living with AIDS who end up on this waiting list are abandoned to sickness and death,” said Stephanie Williams, an HIV-positive woman in Orangeburg, SC and Chair of South Carolina-Campaign to End AIDS (SC-C2EA). “These budgeting decisions will hurt South Carolina. We need our neighbors well and participating in life, not wasting away in hospital beds.”

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leatherman (aka mIkIE)

All the stars are flashing high above the seaand the party is on fire around you and meWe're gonna burn this disco down before the morning comes- Pet Shop Boys chart from 1992-2015Isentress/Prezcobix

No wonder so many newbies complain so much - there really are a bunch of hateful jerks here.

Looks like it's not just me!

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It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

yes, and there is already a thread with the "extra" discussion that's going on in this thread that's not about SC. If there are issues in YOUR state about ADPA, Medicaid, etc., you're more than welcome to go start your own thread

Just four short years ago people DIED in this state because of this funding issue. You are an insensitive jerk, if you don't think it's more important to discuss the topic based on the OP's original post than some guy from Thailand that wants to move here. I cry foul cause he's got his own thread. If the moderators aren't gong to step in and ask people not to hijacks threads then soon there'll be no sense at all here. Already permenant bans don't mean permenant anymore. It's sheer rudeness and bad net etiquette that's slowly destroying this place. What's the use in having guidelines, if the rules are going to be changed mid-stream or only enforced against some people but not others. No wonder so many newbies complain so much - there really are a bunch of hateful jerks here.

unfortunately my diatribe there will probably cause this whole thread to be locked eventually (even though I spoke nothing but the truth), so let me leave this description of what caused people in America to die being not being able to have access to HIV meds just 4 years ago.

Fulminate away it if makes you happy, but maybe if you put dowm that liter of coke and got off your lazy ass and tried to do something about it you might not be such an angry old queen. You see dear, unlike you, I put my money where my big mouth is. Been working as a volunteer for over ten years for the Tennessee Healthcare Campaign. I spend countless hours helping folks navigate around and through Ryan White and ADAP. Yep you're right, I'm the jerk. Switch to Pepsi and get a life.

Rather than bickering about other issues why dont all the posters do something constructive for the people of south carolina. even a letter to ones own representatives in state and national governments, reminding them that its the USA and people shouldn't be on waiting lists for life giving drugs. Everyone must come together to face these challenges. Even Jesse Helms got his feeble mind around the challenges of AIDS so its not impossible to believe in progress!

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“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Fulminate away it if makes you happy, but maybe if you put dowm that liter of coke and got off your lazy ass and tried to do something about it you might not be such an angry old queen. You see dear, unlike you, I put my money where my big mouth is. Been working as a volunteer for over ten years for the Tennessee Healthcare Campaign. I spend countless hours helping folks navigate around and through Ryan White and ADAP. Yep you're right, I'm the jerk. Switch to Pepsi and get a life.

Wowee! You really are a jerk.

I'm not angry (well, until now LOL) I, and others in this thread, just think it's appropriate to try to keep threads on topic. Are you advocating that anyone should just be able to post off-topic stuff anywhere? Are you advocating that it's "okay" for topics to leak out of their own threads and bleed into other threads with different topics? Really??

After caring for my first partner until he died, I was too damn close to death myself for many years and unable to volunteer. Then about the time my own health finally began to improve, I had to care for my second partner until he died. Then I lost my third home in three years (thanks to my aids-induced poverty), and had to move to a whole other state - where within 4 months I began to volunteer. So what the fuck did bragging about yourself mean to any of this discussion? You certainly aren't helping anybody in SC get ADAP or HIV meds with your sassy comments here. Hopefully my phone calls to my state reps, along with the letters I already mailed, and the letters I stamped and mailed out from my ASO this morning will end up helping to keep my fellow HIV poz South Carolinians alive.

by the way it's a 2-liter of Coke a day and I still weight 140lbs - only 5 lbs more than I did when I graduated ACK thirty years ago!. (about 5'10'' and 140lbs I don't have much of an ass, much less a fat one LOL) Plus I turned 48 today and have not been back in the hospital on my birthday, literally dying, in twelve years today. However just a year and 350 days ago today, was when we found out that Jim had non-hodgkins lymphoma and aids. Sadly I'm counting down to that grevious 2yr memorial date of Jim dying on May 1st.

by the way, I learned from the moderators in another thread that instead of calling YOU a jerk, it's entirely ok, as long as I don't call you a "breeder", that I can call you a "fucker". But I won't ROFLMAO

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leatherman (aka mIkIE)

All the stars are flashing high above the seaand the party is on fire around you and meWe're gonna burn this disco down before the morning comes- Pet Shop Boys chart from 1992-2015Isentress/Prezcobix

You've been guilty of thread hijacks yourself, so calm down. The greater misdemeanor here is you wilfully calling another member a jerk. That's name-calling and clearly in opposition to our posting rules. Please consider yourself warned.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

The greater misdemeanor here is you wilfully calling another member a jerk. That's name-calling and clearly in opposition to our posting rules. Please consider yourself warned.

and Dach calling me "an angry old queen" and implying that I am a "lazy ass"? That's not name-calling, and you're not going to warn him??!!?? When I was just trying to get this thread back on track (and i was not the only one trying to do that). Okay you just keep enforcing those double standards.

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leatherman (aka mIkIE)

All the stars are flashing high above the seaand the party is on fire around you and meWe're gonna burn this disco down before the morning comes- Pet Shop Boys chart from 1992-2015Isentress/Prezcobix

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts