Who knows more of gods than I? Horse gods and fire gods, gods made of gold with gemstone eyes, gods carved of cedar wood, gods chiseled into mountains, gods of empty air... I know them all.
~Euron "Crow's Eye" Greyjoy

This is such a stupid point.
Yea you know driving a car is pretty hard if you don't know how to drive a car...

The guild my friends and I started focused on doing small scale stuff instead of fighting in zergs, sadly we lost a lot of members since all of them joined the big "zerg" guilds since they get more rewards...

This is such a stupid point.
Yea you know driving a car is pretty hard if you don't know how to drive a car...

The guild my friends and I started focused on doing small scale stuff instead of fighting in zergs, sadly we lost a lot of members since all of them joined the big "zerg" guilds since they get more rewards...

Its a stupid point? the average joe doesnt mean clueless it means they dont have the time and or inclination to form a good team and get involved in communication, or that they dont havee the abilities to be able to pull off tactics as displayed in karizees video. to lump average joe in with the untrained or uniformed was mever my intention. analogies rarely ever get pulled off well, yours is a good example of it not working.

Its a stupid point? the average joe doesnt mean clueless it means they dont have the time and or inclination to form a good team and get involved in communication, or that they dont havee the abilities to be able to pull off tactics as displayed in karizees video. to lump average joe in with the untrained or uniformed was mever my intention. analogies rarely ever get pulled off well, yours is a good example of it not working.

If this "average joe" doesn't have enough time or inclination to make a tanky build to solo and harass players and keep them from scoring points, he probably doesn't have the time or inclination to make a viable dungeon build either.

If this "average joe" doesn't have enough time or inclination to group up with a small team he probably doesn't have time to make an arena team on WoW, is probably not interested in pvp anyway.

But think about what you're saying about this zerg for a minute. Ok, we have a zerg, this big massive rolling ball of death - but WAIT! It can only be on one place on the map at a time. The map is HUGE, it's GINORMOUS, it's a BEAST of a map. The matches last for a full week, people are zoning in and out of WvW all the time. They do not zone in directly to the zerg's location, they have to find them first.

All these players, looking for this zerg. All these opportunities for small pvp play.

Who knows more of gods than I? Horse gods and fire gods, gods made of gold with gemstone eyes, gods carved of cedar wood, gods chiseled into mountains, gods of empty air... I know them all.
~Euron "Crow's Eye" Greyjoy

If this "average joe" doesn't have enough time or inclination to make a tanky build to solo and harass players and keep them from scoring points, he probably doesn't have the time or inclination to make a viable dungeon build either.

If this "average joe" doesn't have enough time or inclination to group up with a small team he probably doesn't have time to make an arena team on WoW, is probably not interested in pvp anyway.

But think about what you're saying about this zerg for a minute. Ok, we have a zerg, this big massive rolling ball of death - but WAIT! It can only be on one place on the map at a time. The map is HUGE, it's GINORMOUS, it's a BEAST of a map. The matches last for a full week, people are zoning in and out of WvW all the time. They do not zone in directly to the zerg's location, they have to find them first.

All these players, looking for this zerg. All these opportunities for small pvp play.

i dont disagree, the average joe is the person who runs in to balinda like a sheep when its been specifically called out that the alliance are defending. they have little tactical awareness nor any inclination to deviate. i really wasnt trying to make much of a point but watching your videos doesnt give the impression i had of the general wvwvw populace.

i dont disagree, the average joe is the person who runs in to balinda like a sheep when its been specifically called out that the alliance are defending. they have little tactical awareness nor any inclination to deviate. i really wasnt trying to make much of a point but watching your videos doesnt give the impression i had of the general wvwvw populace.

So of course you assume that your impression is the correct one... (regardless of what the correct impression is, even if yours actually is)...I'd say that says more about you than the general population.

So of course you assume that your impression is the correct one... (regardless of what the correct impression is, even if yours actually is)...I'd say that says more about you than the general population.

I think everyone bases their posts on their own impressions when no evidence is available to support either side. i dont
make an assumption im correct because of my anecdotal and often outdated information i just state my impression. seeing as my impression was that to the average joe its a zerg and most people have offered supportive posts i dont think im too off the mark.

I think everyone bases their posts on their own impressions when no evidence is available to support either side. i dont
make an assumption im correct because of my anecdotal and often outdated information i just state my impression. seeing as my impression was that to the average joe its a zerg and most people have offered supportive posts i dont think im too off the mark.

The "problem" here is that the uninitiated may say that wvw is a zerg due to it being a lot easier to spot.
Look on the map for a commander=> found the zerg.
Finding the "smaller" non zerg groups is pretty hard since they don't want/need to show commander status.

Zergs also "get work done" with this I mean taking garison/keeps that are defended pretty well. While the non-zergs play an entire different games. They either cap supply camps, grab easy/undefended towers or kill dolyaks/sentries.

Basically it's like saying in wow arena is "just killing people"... Since for people who don't spend a lot of time in arena it really is.

Its a stupid point? the average joe doesnt mean clueless it means they dont have the time and or inclination to form a good team and get involved in communication, or that they dont havee the abilities to be able to pull off tactics as displayed in karizees video. to lump average joe in with the untrained or uniformed was mever my intention. analogies rarely ever get pulled off well, yours is a good example of it not working.

Not a stupid point but still not what is true, even tho is true. Which was explained by Meledion.

WvW isn't a zerg and that's a fact. Zerg is what players make of it and you are free to enter or not.
If our nice Joe wants to WvW and doesn't have time or inclination to form team he has several ways to bypass that.
Not playing (duh),
playing on zergs (that regardless is effective and even fun),
finding a group (and that's just regardless of time and inclination or builds: Doesn't take 1min to ask on map for a smaller group I've done a few times (not much into big zergs), Doesn't take 1 hour to actually find a guild that is focused in WvW and then you have the means to learn, zerg, small strike forces and eventually make friends, I mean why not add that small group you enjoyed playing and ask for a re-do.)
Going Solo

I have done all of them. Didn't take a good team, didn't take communication outside of gw2. I'm not Joe but it doesn't take much to do those just a little initiative.

But as I said. Not stupid, not truth but still true.

The game doesn't actually help you anywhere there which makes it true and makes Joe sad, so I can see where you come from. But is still not true because Idk, if you like a game, you buy something, you put time (no matter how much) I think eventually you will understand that it doesn't really happen without that kind of thought. And Gw2 is very good at jump in - jump out action even in WvW.

Note: I think that Anet is taking a good step when they said

"We are to encourage people to defend, to get involved, to break away from large mass mentality of zerging
Reward the individual player for what they are doing rather than contribute scoring via server"

If this comes to be true. I think alot of what we are talking will be pointless...Im hoping lol.

Most of WvW is zerg, but even if I wanted to join them I can't because ANet hates nvidia and refuses to optimize towards them. 10FPS ain't fun.

I run with small strike forces and they are pretty fun, when an ele is with us I can just cluster his water AoE and heal us to full. We've taken on 10+ people and won many times, nothing pro but still something to brag about. It's ridiculous how much you can get done by simply calling out a target and everyone pressing T > blowing that target the fuck up. >quickness stomp on demand (and people don't like rangers?) I capture points all day like it's nothin. Being in vent/TS/whatever is the only way to play competitive, so don't complain about it being a zerg when you aren't doing what is necessary for it to be strategic which is also grouping with 4 other friends.

It's like going hotjoin spvp and complaining no strategy is involved. Durr. Just remember zergs are most likely not in vent, not coordinated, target random enemies and are the least bit organized as could possibly be.

WvW is mostly a zerg. I don't know why people try so hard to deny this. I don't even know why it's taken as some kind of slam on the game, it's how the system is designed. Like any other "Big force vs. Big force" thing in games, often it feels zergy. It's unavoidable.

Yeah, on the better servers when there's multiple commanders the forces get split up a little, but 1/3rd of a zerg is still pretty zergy.

It's just how the system is designed. Can move more supply around to targets, take things down faster, handle resistance better, etc etc.

Everyone has a tale about the time that five guys held a point against thirty zerglings or something. Same as any other game, I can tell you all kinds of stories about how me and my wife held a tower against a bunch of alliance zergs, or somehow managed to wipe their entire raid at Galv luckily. Or the times when a few people held a zone line against an opposing raid force in EverQuest. Or a single bard destroying an entire raid. (Ok, that last one was actually pretty common.)

Those kind of stories don't change the design, though. They're the exception, same as in WvW.

Most of WvW is zerg, but even if I wanted to join them I can't because ANet hates nvidia and refuses to optimize towards them. 10FPS ain't fun.

I run with small strike forces and they are pretty fun, when an ele is with us I can just cluster his water AoE and heal us to full. We've taken on 10+ people and won many times, nothing pro but still something to brag about. It's ridiculous how much you can get done by simply calling out a target and everyone pressing T > blowing that target the fuck up. >quickness stomp on demand (and people don't like rangers?) I capture points all day like it's nothin. Being in vent/TS/whatever is the only way to play competitive, so don't complain about it being a zerg when you aren't doing what is necessary for it to be strategic which is also grouping with 4 other friends.

It's like going hotjoin spvp and complaining no strategy is involved. Durr. Just remember zergs are most likely not in vent, not coordinated, target random enemies and are the least bit organized as could possibly be.

Your statement regarding bad nvidia optimisation is false, I run wvw just fine on a 570m which is equivalent ta a nvidia 460 desktop version and gw2 is more cpu bound than gpu bound like most mmos out there.

Who knows more of gods than I? Horse gods and fire gods, gods made of gold with gemstone eyes, gods carved of cedar wood, gods chiseled into mountains, gods of empty air... I know them all.
~Euron "Crow's Eye" Greyjoy

Those kind of stories don't change the design, though. They're the exception, same as in WvW.

yeah tell this to yourself, all I do (with 3 or 4 guildies) is running around in very small groups and fighting small battles. Even when we meet a zerg it's possible to fight the smaller battles, just keep those out of sight of the core-group. You won't believe how easy it is to lure 2-3 people away from a zerg.

so my experience is 80% no zerg, and everybody is responsible for his own experience. You don't want to zerg? --> go away from the zerg. Small camps behind enemy lines are rarely zerged.