More on Bryan Fischer’s theories about homosexuality and the Nazis

In various ways, over the last two weeks, Bryan Fischer of the American Family Association has advanced three theories about Hitler, the Nazi Party and homosexuals. They are:

1. Hitler was an active homosexual.

2. Hitler could not find straight soldiers who were savage enough to carry out his evil plans, so he recruited homosexuals to do it.

3. Homosexuals in the Nazi military led to the Holocaust.

Fischer produces several quotes from historians and students of the Nazi movement to support him. It seems to me that he pulls these quotes right out of their context and uses them to paint an incomplete picture of history.

Hitler’s sexuality has been examined from several different angles. He is an enigma for sure, but you wouldn’t know it by listening to Fischer who called Hitler “an active homosexual.” In the historical record it is clear that Hitler displayed some interest in certain women but this was glossed over by Fischer. Even if Hitler did have a homosexual period –this is by no means proven — there was a clear shift in attitude toward homosexuals after the murder of Ernst Rohm. It is accurate to say that Rohm and several of the SA Brownshirts were homosexual. Hitler tolerated them until they were no longer useful and had them executed in 1934 during the Night of the Long Knive purge. The man who led the execution of Rohm and who later had responsibility for instilling the uncompromising cruelty of the concentration camps at Dachau and later as general inspector of all camps was Theodore Eicke. Eicke, not mentioned in Scott Lively’s book, was married with two children; very straight and very savage.

What follows are just a sampling of quotes which are relevant to Fischer’s theories.

Hitler avoided contact with women, meeting with cold indifference during visits to the opera alleged attempts by young women, probably seeing him as something of an oddity, to flirt or tease him. He was repelled by homosexuality. He refrained from masturbation. Prostitution horrified but fascinated him. He associated it with venereal disease, which petrified him. (p. 23)

–Ian Kershaw in Hitler: A Biography (2008). WW Norton & Co.

“Diels says of Hitler, “He [Hitler] lectured me on the role of homosexuality in history and politics. It had destroyed ancient Greece he said. Once rife, it extended its contagious effects like an ineluctable law of nature to the best and most manly of characters, elimination from the reproductive process those very men on whose offspring a nation depended. The immediate result of the vice, however, was that unnatural passion swiftly became dominant in public affairs if it were allowed to spread unchecked”. (p.118) (Rudolf Diels was the first chief of the Gestapo)

Hitler was prudish in his abhorrence of the “sins” of the modern big city like prostitution, homosexuality, and even immodest dress. He wrote of these matters as the “political, ethical and moral contamination of the people” and the “poisoning of the health of the body politic.” (p. 336)

–Robert Gellately (2007). Lenin, Stalin and Hitler: The Age of Social Catastrophe. Random House.

In November, 1941 Hitler even signed a decree making homosexual offenses among SS members and policemen a capital offense. Two months earlier, Hitler had explained to Goebbels the Darwinian underpinnings of his opposition to homosexuality. After remarking that homosexuality should not be tolerated, especially in the Nazi party and the Army, Hitler continued:

The homosexual is always disposed to drive the selection of men toward the criminal or at least the sickly than the useful in the selection of men. If one would give him free rein, the state would eventually be an organization of homosexuality, but not an organization of manly selection. A real man would defend himself against this endeavor, because he sees it as an assassination of his own evolutionary possibilities. (p. 131)

Not least because of the apparent need to blame a group for something- literally, to blame a group that one disproves of for all the ills of the world. Come to think of it, it does occur on a day to day basis, all the time. And of course it leads to horrible things like the Nazi Holocaust, and that the Genocide in Rwanda.

Just plain old flaws of humanity? A need to hate, to blame, to aportion ill, to crucify another? To see one as good but for the evil in certain others?

Very interesting indeed.

Yeah, even when I am at the receiving end!

coldweatherisfun

E.Warren Throckmorton:

While I haven’t read Lothar Machtan’s book the Hidden Hitler, I have read the 2 best sellers by Ian Kershaw on Hitler, Hubris (1999) & Nemesis (2000). Some thoughts on Adolf Hitler.

As to the allegation of was Hitler a homosexual ? There’s no reliable proof to confirm or for the same matter refute this. It wasn’t uncommon during the 1920s & 30s for 1′s political opponents to call some1 a homosexual. Most Germans other than in Hitler’s personal circle knew about HItler’s mistress Eva Braun. There has been the allegation that Hitler had the VD syphilis, but there’s no proof to this allegation. Hitler with syphils or a homosexual Hitler is just more interesting when it comes to speculation than a straight Hitler.

Hitler’s charlatan Theo Morell (who gave Hitler many useless drugs) did treat people who suffered from Venereal Disease, but the medical casebook on Adolf Hitler makes no mention of VD. Hitler did have many medical problems. Hitler suffered from gas & took anti-gas pills called Koester (SPL). Hitler self administered enemas & Hitler also took Pervitin, injections & many medicines (often useless) which his Dr. THeo Morell gave him. The medical reports on Hitler is quite explicit, but there’s no mention of Venereal Disease & there’s no mention of homosexuality. Hitler is believed to have suffered from Parkinson’s disease towards the end. Adolf Hitler should really be called straight or even asexual, as it’s not believed that he had much of a sex life with Eva Braun.

Was Hitler a vegetarian? There are conflicting reports. What is known is that Hitler’s diet from 1931 onwards was mostly vegetarian. There’s a 1938 NY Times article where it discusses that Hitler occasionally eats ham & caviar. Other reports have that Hitler enjoyed squab & sausages. Adolf Hitler @ various times called himself a vegetarian & he proselytized about the health benefits of a vegetarian diet. Nazi Germany (later Austria after the 1938 Anschluss) was advanced when it came to animal welfare laws. Hitler signed laws on the fastest way to kill shellfish, humane hunting methods & he signed the law to protect the eagle. In fact, the eagle perched on the Swastika became a Nazi symbol of Germany.

Hitler’s hobbies incl. painting, but he was rejected from the Vienna art school. There’s much more voluminous information on Hitler. Most Germans until after the war, didn’t know about Eva Braun, Hitler’s mistress & Hitler married her the day before both of them along with their dog Blondi committed suicide, with Blondi & Eva Braun biting on Prussic acid capsule & Hitler shooting himself, as the Red Army closed in.

As known, there has been voluminous information on the Holocaust. Nazi Germany’s execution or extermination policy on the Jews began in Jan. 1942 after the Lake Wannsee (SPL) conference. From 1933-41, Nazi Germany had an emigration policy when it came to the Jews, but in 1942, it shifted to extermination war. An extermination order has never been found because it was written in euphemisms. Nazi Germany’s alliance with Imperial Japan didn’t officially begin until the Sept. 1940 Tripartite agreement between Germany, Italy & Japan. Nazi Germany also had alliances with Finland (Mannerheim), Bulgaria, Rumania (Antonescu) & Hungary (Horthy) but those alliances were made with threat of declaration of war. Mussolini was the true friend Hitler had when it came to foreign leaders & the alliance between Japan (Oshima Hiroshi was the Japanese diplomat to Germany) & Germany was 1 of convenience.

There’s much more which can be written if you want to do a history discussion. 1 could discuss the Commissar Order, Operation Barbarossa or many other things of WW2. As mentioned in a past post, the Commissar Order really should be called evil men (Nazis) killing other evil men & women (the Soviet Commissars) , as the Soviet Red Army Commissars were ruthless & they sent millions of people in the USSR to their deaths in Stalin’s GULag.

Timothy Kincaid

Even if Hitler did have a homosexual period –this is by no means proven — there was a clear shift in attitude toward homosexuals after the murder of Ernst Rohm.

Would that suggest that Hitler was an ex-gay? Oh, my. Well, we’d better discourage that practice!

To paraphrase Fischer, ex-gays gave us the Nazi war machine and six million dead Jews.

/snark

(my apologies for being flippant about the atrocities that occurred under the Nazi regime)

http://www.wthrockmorton.com Warren

GayUganda: You got it. In religious terms, Fischer’s focus on one group minimizes the doctrine of original sin and total depravity.

CWIF – Thanks for the additional info

Timothy – I wondered who was going to get there first. Expect a PFOX news release…

Lynn David

Fischer….. So Hitler himself was an active homosexual.

I wonder if Fischer agrees that a homosexual orientation exists and that the the word does not just denote behavior. Because if he doesn’t then the use of the phrase “active homosexual” is redundant.

coldweatherisfun

Acknowledgements to Dr. E.Warren Throckmorton. The History Channel from 2004 to 2007 did many shows on the Nazis, Hitler, as well as WW2 along with programs on the 1st World War, Korea & the Vietnam War, but since 2008, they usu. don’t do history programs & as of this writing, I don’t have the History Channel. But for more thoughts on Hitler as well as WW2.

It has been said that the Nazis propagated the image of Adolf Hitler being a vegetarian who loved animals & children to craft the Hitler as being kind & gentle. If you’ve seen old pictures & Nazi film footage, they sometimes show Hitler feeding animals such as deer & petting dogs, along with having his picture taken with small children. The Nazi press during the 1930s frequently gave the message that Adolf Hitler loves children & dogs. Germany & Austria were advanced when it came to animal welfare laws & veterinary science during the time of Hitler. Of course Germany & Austria was advanced in many areas scientifically.

The topic which has been discussed since the end of WW2, is how could totalitarianism arise in nations as advanced as Germany & Japan. How can nations which have produced great things to culture such Beethoven, Wagner operas & kabuki theaters along with many other great things contributed to science, have produced the likes of Dr. Josef Mengele (Auschwitz) & Shiro Ishii (Unit 731 in Manchuria & the flea bombs which carried biological weapons such as plague, typhoid, etc.? In both Germany & Japan, the schools would teach the kids that the Germans & the Japanese were the greatest of all & in Japan, they would teach kids that Japan had a right to colonize China & other Asian nations. Kids would get punished in both nations if they said that they differed with the teachers, so there was indoctrination.

Hitler in addition to eagles, also had a fascination with ravens & wolves, esp. wolves, that some of the things were named after them. There’s the Eagle’s nest in Bavaria, was the name of a lodge that was given to him on his 50th birthday, but which Hitler only occasionally visited, because he had breathing problems @ that high altitude. The Wolf’s Lair is another lodge & this is where the 1944 failed assasination attempt was made on Hitler’s life (see Nemesis). Late in the war & even after WW2, there was the Nazi guerrilla group called the Werewolves, but the Werewolves failed in that most Germans had had enough of the war & as Germany had lost the war & was in 4 militarized zones, the Werewolves would fail.

Hitler was wounded during WW1, incl. by mustard gas late in WW1, which caused him to have conjunctivitis (see Hubris). During the 2nd World War, Hitler rejected all ideas to use the nerve gases Sarin, Tabun & Soman, which the Allies only learned about after the war. Why Hitler rejected them is open to speculation. Fascist Italy did use nerve gases against Abysinnia (now Ethiopia) during the war in 1936 & Imperial Japan did use biological weapons (such as Shiro Ishii’s flea bombs) against China during the war (1931-45). Both the Axis & the Allies did bombings of civilians be it London, Coventry, Shanghai, Dresden, Pforzeim, Tokyo, Hiroshima & Nagasaki. The Allies had considered doing nerve gas attacks on Germany & Japan. Declassified documents found since the end of the war have found that Churchill had considered doing anthrax attacks on Germany. Both Germany & Japan were trying to build the atom bomb.

The children killed in wars are innocent. There have been many discussions of Dresden, Hiroshima & Nagasaki. For me the topic isn’t the atom bomb but bombing raids where the intent is to kill civilians. During the war, both sides believed that by bombing cities the other nation would surrender. My view on Hiroshima & Nagasaki is that if the U.S. wanted to show Japan the atom bomb’s strength, then the atom bomb could’ve been dropped on a military base or arms factory in Japan, where there would’ve been fewer civilians killed & wounded as a result of collateral damage (such as 1,500 to 2,500) rather than the 150,000 + killed & wounded in Hiroshima & Nagasaki. While Hiroshima did have a miltary base & industries, this was incidental. Both cities were attacked because they had been untouched by the war up to that point. Now if people want to say that bombing cities was what was believed to be the fastest way to end the war, then so be it. My problem is that when the discussion is raised of the kids killed in Dresden, Hiroshima & Nagasaki, the topic frequently shifts to London, Holocaust, Bataan etc. (implying that the kids were guilty), when the children killed in Dresden, Hiroshima, Ngasaki,etc. are innocent & didn’t participate in the HOlocaust, Nanking, etc.

Collateral damage deaths are 1 thing, but opposed to bombing raids where the intent is to kill civilians. There were many other places in Japan where the atom bomb could’ve been dropped with fewer civilian deaths as a result of collateral damage. War is a brutality & again both sides bombed civilians because they believed that it would end the war.