Please note: we have been online over ten years, and we want The Trek BBS to continue as a free site. But if you block our ads we are at risk.Please consider unblocking ads for this site - every ad you view counts and helps us pay for the bandwidth that you are using. Thank you for your understanding.

Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.

Yes, I can see that, but for Tim Vining, it was all that he had (and the rub is, it works better for Star Trek, because it at least looks realistic and is close enough to TAS for it to become the success for most of the people that have seen it.)

Any good space opera will ride Trek's recent success but Trek was a failure on tv and that can't be built on unless you, CBS or Netflix has 75 million dollers to spend on every episode, bacause they - the movies and tv are two different animals.

I really don't see how you can call Trek a "failure" on TV, not with 21 seasons of live action overall, 18 of them consecutive.

TOS was a failure on the networks, but became a massive success in syndication, paving the way for four successor series and a dozen movies (counting the one releasing next month).

TNG was a sufficient success to lead to two spinoffs and a prequel series, and all the Trek series are making money through DVD, streaming, and merchandising.

That doesn't mean that the previous successes would be easy to replicate in the current TV environment, but the history of the franchise should not be considered show-stopper.

Seven hundred episodes is not a sign of failure.

Was ENT a failure, yes or no? The why doesn't matter right now. Berman is gone. I do think it is a perennial but not one that I'm interested in with JJ in control. I wasn't too interested in it with Berman in control. I don't think their syndication value will be as high as TOS especially as time goes by. ENT has already been attached to Trek 09 as some kind of alternate universe history which I have no interest in.

Any good space opera will ride Trek's recent success but Trek was a failure on tv and that can't be built on unless you, CBS or Netflix has 75 million dollers to spend on every episode, bacause they - the movies and tv are two different animals.

I really don't see how you can call Trek a "failure" on TV, not with 21 seasons of live action overall, 18 of them consecutive.

TOS was a failure on the networks, but became a massive success in syndication, paving the way for four successor series and a dozen movies (counting the one releasing next month).

TNG was a sufficient success to lead to two spinoffs and a prequel series, and all the Trek series are making money through DVD, streaming, and merchandising.

That doesn't mean that the previous successes would be easy to replicate in the current TV environment, but the history of the franchise should not be considered show-stopper.

Seven hundred episodes is not a sign of failure.

Was ENT a failure, yes or no? The why doesn't matter right now. Berman is gone. I do think it is a perennial but not one that I'm interested in with JJ in control. I wasn't too interested in it with Berman in control. I don't think their syndication value will be as high as TOS especially as time goes by. ENT has already been attached to Trek 09 as some kind of alternate universe history which I have no interest in.

(Emphasis mine.)

That's a different question than whether Star Trek itself was a failure on TV. As to the answer, ENT was a failure when judged against its expectations, and a success when judged against the majority of science fiction TV shows.

As for syndication value, today's market is so totally different that it's not really fair to compare any of the more recent series to TOS. When I started watching TOS in syndication, there was no other option available. Now you can get the shows on web streaming, buy digital copies, or even physical copies; none of that was possible when I was a kid, as the VCR hadn't even been introduced at the time. It was syndication or nothing.

Personal interest is a whole different issue, and not something that can be quantified. I don't mind JJ Abrams' Trek, but I don't have the same feelings for it that I have for the TV series. If pressed, I would say that I expect another Trek TV series at some point in the future, but I would not be surprised if it's not before 2020. I'm not saying that I'll necessarily like it, but I do expect it.

A new series would have to build off of a successful tv model and ENT wasn't successful.

It must stand on it's own despite Trek's past history of success or failure. Bad Robot is not capable of that because tv relies on ideas and high concepts.

I'm convinced Mozart write some boring pieces on purpose just to sour the water to made audiences want and clamor for something better and for what he was capable of, writing great music, which is not something Bad Robot is capable of in a literary way at all.

The only shred of hope I see for this happening is for a Netflix/Internet series. That's what the whole Renegades fanfilm is trying to inspire. The fact of the matter is Trek is not mainstream and it's hard to compete with an audience that is entranced by a bunch of college kids getting drunk on the latest reality show.

The thing is, a new series doesn't have to build off ENT. If anything it will either build off the movies (most likely) or off the TNG-era continuity (unlikely but possible). In either case it will be able to be connected to previous success rather than failure.

Remember, TOS was a network failure, but it still managed to spawn the rest of the franchise. The cancellation of ENT after four seasons, just like the cancellation of TOS after three, and TAS after two seasons is not enough to consider the franchise as a whole, a failure on TV. In fact, I would say that it's the most successful SF franchise in the history of TV.

Was ENT a failure, yes or no? The why doesn't matter right now. Berman is gone. I do think it is a perennial but not one that I'm interested in with JJ in control. I wasn't too interested in it with Berman in control. I don't think their syndication value will be as high as TOS especially as time goes by. ENT has already been attached to Trek 09 as some kind of alternate universe history which I have no interest in.

Enterprise was able to get it's fans to raise a million dollars (pre-Kickstarter!) to bring it back for a fifth season before the fans gave up trying to get it back. Besides Veronica Mars, what other show had that much support from its fans? Please tell me that.

We know that you hate it but at the same time, a lot of people still love it-many of who were not denizens of this board or involved in daily bashing of it. Many more still love this show to this day, and many more even think that it's better than the 2009 movie. Against all of that, what do you, as a person who hates Enterprise, think of that?

Was ENT a failure, yes or no? The why doesn't matter right now. Berman is gone. I do think it is a perennial but not one that I'm interested in with JJ in control. I wasn't too interested in it with Berman in control. I don't think their syndication value will be as high as TOS especially as time goes by. ENT has already been attached to Trek 09 as some kind of alternate universe history which I have no interest in.

Enterprise was able to get it's fans to raise a million dollars (pre-Kickstarter!) to bring it back for a fifth season before the fans gave up trying to get it back. Besides Veronica Mars, what other show had that much support from its fans? Please tell me that.

We know that you hate it but at the same time, a lot of people still love it-many of who were not denizens of this board or involved in daily bashing of it. Many more still love this show to this day, and many more even think that it's better than the 2009 movie. Against all of that, what do you, as a person who hates Enterprise, think of that?

The $1m was mainly from one or two wealthy fans. It did not reflect a large number of fans. And the fact is Paramount didn't care. It didn't say, "wow fans really like this show, we were wrong, let's bring it back." They let the show stay cancelled and sat on the franchise until they asked JJ to make a movie. And since ENT was cancelled, the market for a space opera on broadcast tv has gotten even worse. You can't just say "fans loved ENT, so CBS needs to make a new show." You need to show how CBS can expect to make money on a Star Trek show. Let's see what SyFy does with their slate of space operas, and what Disney decides to do with Star Wars on TV. If they have a success, then maybe CBS will consider what it can do with Star Trek. Until then, you're just a fan whining on a message board.

Enterprise was able to get it's fans to raise a million dollars (pre-Kickstarter!) to bring it back for a fifth season before the fans gave up trying to get it back. Besides Veronica Mars, what other show had that much support from its fans? Please tell me that.

No, they really didn't. That whole campaign was a fraud and a crock from the start.

Regardless, an outpouring of support from a dedicated core of fans is not what a studio wants to see. They want to see broad-based, mass appeal.Hence the taking of the new movies in the cookie cutter, blockbuster action flick direction.

The thing is, a new series doesn't have to build off ENT. If anything it will either build off the movies (most likely) or off the TNG-era continuity (unlikely but possible). In either case it will be able to be connected to previous success rather than failure.

Remember, TOS was a network failure, but it still managed to spawn the rest of the franchise. The cancellation of ENT after four seasons, just like the cancellation of TOS after three, and TAS after two seasons is not enough to consider the franchise as a whole, a failure on TV. In fact, I would say that it's the most successful SF franchise in the history of TV.

The thing is... the TV networks don't care about what area of Trek continuity a new series is building off of. They care about ratings. The first thing they'll look at is the last series, Enterprise, and point out their abysmal ratings and ask why they should fund another expensive sci-fi show when they can bring in some college students, get them drunk, and make a new reality series for the fraction of the cost that's bound to get better ratings.

The thing is, a new series doesn't have to build off ENT. If anything it will either build off the movies (most likely) or off the TNG-era continuity (unlikely but possible). In either case it will be able to be connected to previous success rather than failure.

Remember, TOS was a network failure, but it still managed to spawn the rest of the franchise. The cancellation of ENT after four seasons, just like the cancellation of TOS after three, and TAS after two seasons is not enough to consider the franchise as a whole, a failure on TV. In fact, I would say that it's the most successful SF franchise in the history of TV.

The thing is... the TV networks don't care about what area of Trek continuity a new series is building off of. They care about ratings.

Those parts are true.

The first thing they'll look at is the last series, Enterprise, and point out their abysmal ratings and ask why they should fund another expensive sci-fi show when they can bring in some college students, get them drunk, and make a new reality series for the fraction of the cost that's bound to get better ratings.

And this part isn't quite true. ENT ended eight years ago and counting. In Hollywood, it's ancient history at this point and won't be a deciding factor in a new Trek TV series (otherwise, we would never have gotten TNG because TOS was cancelled due to abysmal ratings).

What really will decide whether or not there'll be a new Trek series is if CBS thinks it's currently profitable to do one today.

__________________"Don't sweat the small stuff--it makes you small-minded..."

Disney in particular is gung-ho about using all its IP in every way possible. ABC's development slate this year is full of Disney characters and theme park rides. (Hmm, this may be a good sign for a live-action Star Wars series?)

They also canceled Clone Wars. So it's too early to tell what they might do on TV.

As for uncanny valley, I think Aurora does a good job avoiding it. I can't say it's always 100% successful, but better than a lot of them.

I am not aware of any truly pro-level stuff done with Daz/Poser, although I hear it's popular for porn.

Disney in particular is gung-ho about using all its IP in every way possible. ABC's development slate this year is full of Disney characters and theme park rides. (Hmm, this may be a good sign for a live-action Star Wars series?)

They also canceled Clone Wars. So it's too early to tell what they might do on TV.

As for uncanny valley, I think Aurora does a good job avoiding it. I can't say it's always 100% successful, but better than a lot of them.

I am not aware of any truly pro-level stuff done with Daz/Poser, although I hear it's popular for porn.

Myself, I think that the whole 'uncanny valley' thing is a load of bullshit, and then some; there were a ton of CGI cartoons produced in the last two decades (1990s and 2000s) that were done in the style of Aurora and nobody had a problem with them or objected to them (the best being Reboot, Max Steel, Action Man and Iron Man: Armoured Adventures, IMHO.) People have gotten too used to the Pixar funny people style, and so think that a show has to be like that, but it doesn't; the shows that I've posted examples of have shown that.

Disney in particular is gung-ho about using all its IP in every way possible. ABC's development slate this year is full of Disney characters and theme park rides. (Hmm, this may be a good sign for a live-action Star Wars series?)

They also canceled Clone Wars. So it's too early to tell what they might do on TV

I have to wonder if the reason for that is that they might want to focus on stuff set closer to when Episodes VII-IX are set.