some Posts have been moved from this loooooooong Post and linked to separate short Posts to make them easier to find - they will then not appear in chronological order. Nothing will be lost, but will be linked with headings

When buses replace trains, if you have special requirements such as a mobility scooter, it is recommended you call ahead to confirm your needs will be met by PTV: 1800 800 007

The SCC is a member of the LXRA Seaford Rd Community Reference Group (CRG) which will liaise between residents and the Level Crossing Removal Authority (LXRA).If you have questions (and who doesn't?), please review the many questions already asked and answered here: https://your.levelcrossings.vic.gov.au/SeafordIf your question has not been answered satisfactorily, feel free to contact us and we'll liaise directly with the LXRA for you.It is expected that many more questions will follow as the project progresses.

Carrum - Elevated Rail, second bridge over Patterson River, proposed relocation of the stabling yards for trains & carriages from Carrum to Kananook

Overton Rd, Frankston - Elevated Rail - FASTtracked - from the LXRA website: "We will announce our preferred builder in May 2017, with construction starting well ahead of schedule before the end of the year. We are aiming to complete the level crossing removal by 2018"

BackgroundHaving signed contracts for and commencing works on elevated rail for the Dandenong/Pakenham line, the Victorian State Govt is currently researching design options for grade separation of Level Crossings on the Frankston Railway Line.

The first 3 Level Crossings scheduled for removal on the Frankston Railway Line have been removed by placing the rail line under roads, i.e. Ormond, Bentleigh and McKinnon. The Victorian State Govt has specified more for removal and elevated rail is proposed for several of them - http://levelcrossings.vic.gov.au/crossings/frankston-line

Interested members of the community are urged to provide feedback and ideas to the Level Crossing Removal Authority - see below.

Residents and Councils must provide their feedback - NOW - and demand design excellence, not allowing any Govt to take a cheap option. Waiting until an announcement is made would be too late. Refer - https://www.facebook.com/noskyrailspakenhamline

One "Strategic Issue" from the paper:"A level crossing removal is more than an engineering project which physically separates road and rail. An intervention of this scale will have a significant impact on the condition and amenity of an established urban area. It is typically a complex urban project."================================================================================

The recent Seaford information session was very general, with possibilities and concepts displayed, rather than real options - it was certainly made clear that no decisions appear to have been made as yet.

(Click on image to view & close or right-click to download)

Level Crossing Removal options.jpg (1.54 MiB) Viewed 70933 times

It was an opportunity to air one's own ideas and view artist impressions and concepts. I overheard one person say it was "a warm and fuzzy session, without substance". As the staff on hand said, it's very early days - there are many issues to be sorted out over time. It is important that you become involved - and contribute! See feedback options in the above post.

Here are a few ideas I have received or overheard:

Relocate stations

Relocate rail line to beside freeways

Relocate rail line, then use old line for cyclists (safer than Nepean Highway)

Bike track under raised rail

Slightly raise rail and slightly lower road (or vice versa)

Raised rail must be built strongly enough to carry freight trains

All freeways should have rail lines

Although a little further North, Carrum Station level crossing could be removed if a second bridge was built over the Patterson River to join Station Street between Bonbeach and Carrum. If that 2nd bridge was built, Station St could then become one-way Southbound and Nepean Highway one-way Northbound for a suitable stretch – research and investigation needed on that one

It compares rail-under or rail-over options for level crossing removals since the 1890s and contributes to the public debate on level crossing removals and, more widely, on the re-vitalisation of Melbourne's public transport systems. LXRA supported the research, but its findings represent many years of work by its well-respected authors.

The research has been conducted entirely separately to any of the Level Crossing Removal Authority's activities and both the University of Melbourne and RMIT has not had any involvement in, or influence on, the procurement, design development or delivery process for any of the level crossings being delivered.”

__________________________________________________________Note that the SCC is not affiliated with this group and our sharing of their information does not necessarily imply endorsement by us. However, we do support anyone who strives to have community views acknowledged and, if appropriate, implemented.__________________________________________________________

Whilst initially very confusing, I have discovered that there are at least 4 community groups providing information surrounding the Level Crossing removals and working to see the best possible outcome for the Frankston railway line - thank you! They are listed below (in no particular order, other than the order in which I found them):

These and other community groups have been diligently:- collecting petition signatures and presenting them to the Victorian Parliament- liaising with MPs and Councillors along the Frankston line- collating information for you- offering suggestions - developing engineering and other documents

=============================

You do not need a Facebook account to view any of these pages (only to add your own comments)

In addition to working on many large infrastructure projects, my most relevant project experience to this issue is my work on the Alameda Corridor grade separation in California USA. This project includes a 16km in ground rail trench

__________________________________________________________Note that the SCC is not affiliated with either group and our sharing of their information does not necessarily imply endorsement by us. However, we do support anyone who strives to have community views acknowledged and, if appropriate, implemented.__________________________________________________________

NOTE that feedback to the LXRA in the first round of consultation closed on 8 May, 2016

The LXRA has said that options (and consolidated feedback from the first public community sessions) for the Frankston line will be made available to the public mid-2016, when the second round of consultation will commence with specific options for crossings.

_____________________________________________________Note that the SCC is not affiliated with any of these other groups and our sharing of their information does not necessarily imply endorsement by us. However, we do support anyone who strives to have community views acknowledged and, if appropriate, implemented._____________________________________________________

The issues with the process continue from the Drop-In Sessions, with the authority's staff being dismissive of residents who are opposed to elevated rail during their door knocking campaign.

I would like to note that if it is only the announced level crossings being removed, then in some cases elevated rail cannot be a considered design. This is because an elevated rail design requires a significant amount of space, which would see level crossings outside of those announced impacted. On the other hand, the cut and cover method requires less space to be implemented.

If the rail is elevated, I have been informed by experts that the foundations would be 4m deep, however on the contrary the cut and cover method could be employed to lower the rail by making a 6m cutting according to the LXRA's engineers. I believe it is important to address the misconception that the water table inhibits the available designs for consideration. It certainly exists and no one denies that, but it is a factor clearly engineers are prepared to work with.

Residents oppose multi-storey developments regularly and it should come as no surprise that an elevated design has generated the same response.

Thank you for organising, No Skyrail. You're right - the time to be proactive is NOW - before the next election! This is an excellent opportunity to ask questions of Local, State and Federal politicians. This is a *must attend* event for residents of Seaford and Frankston.

Even though this community meeting is hosted in - and will focus on - Seaford (and Frankston), we would love to see people from further up the line who have thoughts and experience to share.

Resident surveys:It seems that EY Sweeney are conducting door to door surveys for the LXRA, progressing Southward.To assist you in preparing your answers in advance, here are the Survey Questions used on the Dandenong Line .... and one person's responses in Edithvale.

I wonder how effective it would be to say:"I am opposed to level crossing removals because the only option being put forward appears to be elevated rail and I would rather put up with the congestion at crossings." (The only artist's impressions at LXRA consultation sessions were elevated rail.)

On 13 May 2016 Councillor Spelman gave notice of her intention to move the following motion:That based on the strong community concern and opposition, as can be seen by the accompanying petition addressed to both Frankston City Council and State Legislative Council of Victoria, this Council adopts a formal position that Frankston City will not accept a Sky Rail solution to the removal of level crossings on the Frankston Line. The petition must also be sent to State Legislative Council of Victoria.

Frankston City Council looks forward to working co-operatively with the LXRA to determine which of the remaining options are best for our City in order to assist the State Government with their election commitments regarding level crossing removal.

Here's how you get some work done! This 3 minute time-lapse video shows how a Dutch construction company put in a tunnel on the A12 highway in the Netherlands in just three days. Workers used four cranes to demolish the road before sliding in the fitted tunnel. Then the workers filled in sand around the gaps before launching into an intense paving operation. Despite a fierce storm, the workers managed to keep working and finish on time. The busy national road was shut over one weekend but was back up and running by the Monday morning commute.

Everyone is welcome to attend this public meeting - indeed, your support would be appreciated.

​There are actually 2 Motions and a 40-page report​ on P132, 595 and 599.Motion: ​Council supports rail under road as the only appropriate method to remove the level crossings in Frankston City.

Recommendation (Director CAA Development)That Council:

Endorses the long term strategic rail needs and grade separation options assessment as documented by the Frankston City Council Level Crossing Preferred Options Submission paper (Attachment A)

Agrees to submit the paper to the Level Crossing Removal Authority that recommends the preferred options:• Rail under Road for Seaford Road, Seaford;• Rail under Road for Skye/Overton Road, Frankston;• No change to the Level Crossing at Eel Race Road, Seaford and that the funding be redirected to Community’s strategic rail needs however if there is grade separation works, Rail under Road

Seeks a copy of the Level Crossing Removal Authority’s Geotechnical report on the three sites within the Frankston Municipality for Council’s review

Forwards the paper to the Minister for Public Transport, the Hon. Jacinta Allan MP, the Department of Economic Development, Jobs, Transport and Resource, the Member for Frankston, Mr Paul Edbrooke MP, and the Member for Carrum, Ms Sonya Kilkenny MP and the Public Transport Victoria

Authorises the Mayor to present the submission at the next South East Melbourne Group of Councils’ meeting as well as distributing the paper to other Councils on the Frankston rail line; and

Authorises the CEO to finalise the paper as an advocacy document for Frankston and Regional future rail needs and seeks an urgent meeting with the assistance from Mr Edbrooke MP – Member for Frankston and Ms Kilkenny MP – Member for Carrum to present this document to the Premier of Victoria, the Hon. Daniel Andrews MP, the Minister for Public Transport, the Hon. Jacinta Allan MP, and the Federal Members of Dunkley and Isaacs by mid-September 2016.

The FCC motion was passed unanimously!Thank you to everyone who attended this meeting to lend your support.

​There were some amendments and additions, such as a 3rd line for express trains, but in essence, Council supports rail under road as the only appropriate method to remove the level crossings in Frankston City.

Of course, if we were able to create / attract more jobs / companies to Frankston, people would want to travel South - to Frankston - and possibly not need express trains to the North - just sayin' .........

It is good to see that the LXRA listened to suggestions to make these sessions at a time when train commuters weren't travelling.It is understood that 2 options will be presented - over and under road.

Familiarise yourself with the options and circumstances surrounding your crossing

Complete the LXRA survey form

(Closed) Post your comments and questions in the LXRA "Join the Discussion" Forum

Share your thoughts: neighbours, Facebook, MPs, Councillors

Go to the link below

Click on the image/s for crossings you are interested in

Review the files and information in "Document Library"

Sign in or register a new account

(Closed) Complete the Survey

(Closed) Post your comments and questions in "Join the Discussion"- This is a public forum to share ideas with others- If you share information with others via Facebook or email, share it again - here, where LXRA may respond

LXRA's options for level crossing removals on the Frankston line have been released for discussion:

_____________________________________________________Note that the SCC is not affiliated with any of these other groups and our sharing of their information does not necessarily imply endorsement by us. However, we do support anyone who strives to have community views acknowledged and, if appropriate, implemented._____________________________________________________

LXRA Reply:I'm following up on your query regarding to the geo-technical investigations and car park closures at Aspendale, and apologise for the delay in getting back to you.

We’re undertaking geo-technical investigations at a number of locations, including at sites around the Seaford Wetlands to better understand the ground water flow and general ground conditions. You may have seen a few more around Edithvale and Bonbeach stations also.

With regards to the car park closures at Aspendale, this is another location where we are undertaking geo-technical investigations to get a better picture of what the conditions below ground are and how the ground water flows. We know having closures of any car park is inconvenient and will hope to have these works completed as soon as possible.

Although our project construction would not be at Aspendale or the Seaford Wetlands, drilling at these places helps us build a profile of the area.

Thank you again for your query, my phone number is below if you would like to discuss further anything in this email.

Overton Rd, Frankston - Elevated Rail - FASTtracked - from the LXRA website: "We will announce our preferred builder in May 2017, with construction starting well ahead of schedule before the end of the year. We are aiming to complete the level crossing removal by 2018

FCC supported rail under road as the only appropriate method to remove level crossings in Frankston City at their meeting on 18 July, 2016. We are waiting for the new Council to reaffirm this decision and request an Environmental Effects Statement (EES) where the LXRA has not.

LXRA Announcement regarding Seaford Road level crossing:"We are removing the Seaford Road level crossing with a new hybrid design, which will lower Seaford Road and place the rail line on to a planted embankment to separate road from rail."

The road will be lowered 1.5m and the rail tracks will on top of a bridge which will be 6.5m high, with trains, wires and gantries, etc. above that 6.5m.

https://your.levelcrossings.vic.gov.au/Seaford:"We'll be hosting a number of community workshops for the Seaford project in March and we're keen to hear your ideas on shaping your local community, including landscaping, paths and environmental initiatives!Your feedback will help us develop a plan for the area before the project goes to tender later this year.For more info on dates and times, and how to register visit https://your.levelcrossings.vic.gov.au/Seaford"

The next - and final - session for Seaford Rd crossing is Wednesday 29 March - see above Post.

About 30 residents attended tonight - some not from Seaford, but providing support - thank you.

Each group of people on a table was asked to move between 4 tables to comment on different aspects, i.e. you stayed with the same people.

LXRA confirmed the height at Seaford Rd (including gantries) would be 12m.

I reckon the predominant feeling was: "until we get a game-changer on this lousy idea, I'll give them ideas to make the best out of this lousy idea."

e.g. - We cherish Seaford's village/country feel and low-rise development and want to retain it- Don't destroy any current vegetation or public space- Hide any development with more vegetation- Don't create pedestrian underpasses that would need hiding- No concrete should be visible

The next - and final - session for Seaford Rd crossing is tomorrow (Wednesday).

UPDATE: Motion was passed with an additional item regarding the proposed relocation of the train stabling yard from Carrum to Kananook.Frankston Council meeting - 3 April (next Monday night) - level crossings Motion is on the Agenda - you can lend your support in 4 ways:

1. Email FCC Councillors and express your concerns about what is being proposed and the process - councillors@frankston.vic.gov.au2. Respond to the Motion via a verbal submission. To do this you need to register via the FCC website or ring the Councillors Office and book in. You get 3 minutes to talk. You will need to read the motion first to do this3. Questions with notice. These must be lodged by 12:00pm 31 March at the Davey St. Council office. There is a form on the website or collect one at the council office4. Questions Without Notice can be submitted on the evening of the relevant Ordinary Meeting. (Have it written out - use the downloadable Form - and hand to a Council Officer before the meeting starts.)

That Council:1. Requests from the Level Crossing Removal Authority and the Hon Jacinta Allen MP, Minister for Transport, as a matter of urgency, the release of all technical reports and associated information to the Council and community, which provides justification for the chosen options for treatments at the Frankston railway line grade separations located within the Frankston municipality.2. Notes that the State Government has failed to provide all of the information as requested previously by Council to date."Meeting rules, submissions, Forms, etc. - http://www.frankston.vic.gov.au/Your_Council/Council_and_Committee_Meetings/Council_Meetings

Advice received today (April 7) from the LXRA regarding upcoming service investigations in the Seaford area - from April 12:

I'm writing to let you know about upcoming service investigations in the Seaford area.

In preparation for the safe removal of the Seaford Road level crossing, the project team need to further investigate the location of underground services, including gas, water, telecommunications, electrical, and sewerage.

These works will occur (weather permitting) from Wednesday 12 April. We expect these works to take a number of weeks to complete.

What we are doing · Investigating and recording the location of underground services · Using suction trucks that use high pressure water to excavate holes in the ground, rather than digging holes · Refilling the holes and reinstating the ground

Where are the works? These works will occur within the rail corridor and on nearby roads, including: · Seaford Road · Railway Parade · Fortescue Avenue · Elsie Avenue

Day works Works will only be undertaken between 9am and 4pm. Traffic management will be in place to keep road and footpath users safe. Detours will be in place to ensure people can get to where they need to safely, however please allow extra travel time.

What to expect · There will be intermittent noise during these works generated by the suction trucks. · There will be parking restrictions at some locations and lane and footpath closures during the works.

"Keen to get more involved in the Seaford Road level crossing removal project?We’re setting up a Community Reference Group (CRG) for Seaford to help share information and minimise impacts on the local community during construction.It’s important we have local insight as we head into the construction phase of the project. The CRG will be a forum for community members to be a part of the project's progress and provide a local perspective on any issues.If you’re living, learning or working in the area and have an interest in how the project will affect you and your community, we want to hear from you!"

"Investigation works and construction to remove the Seaford Road level crossing will begin in early 2018. The level crossing will be removed by 2018 and the project will be completed in 2019."Further feedback sessions will be organised in 2018 and interaction with the Community Reference group will also occur.

The SCC is a member of the Seaford Rd Community Reference Group (CRG) which will liaise between residents and the LXRA.If you have questions (who doesn't?), please review the many questions already asked and answered here: https://your.levelcrossings.vic.gov.au/SeafordIf your question has not been answered satisfactorily, feel free to contact us and we'll liaise directly with the LXRA for you.It is expected that many more questions will follow as the project progresses.

Investigation works prior to removal of the Seaford Road level crossing will begin from Monday 22 January 2018 (between 7am and 5pm weekdays, intermittently across a two week period), with construction commencing early 2018 - see attached.

LXRA has delivered flyers to residents next to the rail line in Seaford, offering one-on-one meetings over the next couple of weeks to discuss how the project will be built and potential impacts. LXRA will be meeting with residents:

"on Levuka Street and the top of Fortescue Road first, as they will adjacent to the initial works.Following these, we will then offer meetings to residents adjacent to the rail line and works areas."

Which crossings and why (moved from the first Post in this Crossings Topic which was getting too long)Crossings proposed for grade separation in the Seaford/Frankston area are Eel Race Rd, Seaford Rd and Overton Rd.

Station St, despite its close proximity to Seaford Rd, has not been mentioned and it is hard to understand how one could be actioned and not the other. Armstrongs Rd is also not on the list. Eel Race Road (a little to the North) IS on the list.

LXRA's options for level crossing removals on the Frankston line have been released for discussion - click here for details

(Completed) The second round of public information sessions has now been scheduled for September and October, 2016 - click here for details

(Closed) Community feedback and surveys are also available. You'll need to be quick - there's not much time to have your thoughts heard as consultation closes on 30 October 2016 - click here for details

At the Seaford Rd session on 20 Sept, the LXRA reported that they hope to provide data surrounding health, noise, water, pollution and environmental issues by December 2016

The first 3 Level Crossings scheduled for removal on the Frankston Railway Line have been removed by placing the rail line under roads, i.e. Ormond, Bentleigh and McKinnon. The Victorian State Govt has specified more for removal and elevated rail is proposed for several of them

Community groups have been diligently:- collecting petition signatures and presenting them to the Victorian Parliament- liaising with MPs and Councillors along the Frankston line- collating the information for you- offering suggestions - developing engineering and other documents- Refer http://www.seafordcc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=190&p=459#p382

"You'll soon see a site office start to take shape at RF Miles Reserve for the project team, their equipment and machinery. The Reserve will be closed to the public. But the club rooms and cricket nets will still be available.

Walking path detours are now in place for the walking path that currently runs between RF Miles Reserve and alongside the rail line. Detour maps are already up. Contact me for more info.

Some tree trimming and tree removal will soon take place. Safety fencing is going up. And then, during April and May, construction will start on the temporary rail line (just west of the existing line). This means most of the construction works can take place without major disruptions to rail services."

In response to several concerns regarding recent changes to the traffic lights sequencing ........

Carrum MP Sonya Kilkenny has confirmed with VicRoads:

"- there was a change to the traffic lights during the recent period of works associated with the Level Crossing preliminary works- those works are now complete- the traffic light operation is back to normal- thanks to everyone for their patience and understanding."

For those who are not aware, the light sequence change meant that the intersection was almost permanently closed, with traffic backed-up for several hundred metres. Traffic unable to turn right into Railway Pde banked up, stopping traffic heading straight along Seaford Rd over the crossing - and vice versa. All green lights/arrows became redundant with the sequence that was set.Only a few cars at a time were able to navigate the intersection.

23 March 2018:LXRA advance notice of upcoming disruption to services on the Frankston Line - buses replace trains.

WEEKEND WORKS 6 – 9 April 2018 at Seaford Rd, including some night works.Also advanced expectation: line closed 4 May - 16 June - TBC.

The attached works notification letter is being delivered to 800 residents adjacent to the rail line. We're told that more information on the works will be sent out next week, which we will share when received.

Received from LXRA since the SCC is a member of the Seaford Rd Community Reference Group (CRG)

SCC Policy Statement (February 2016): (moved from the first Post in this Crossings Topic which was getting too long)

The Seaford Community Committee had initially expected that:

the high water table

sandy soils

acid sulphate soils, and

proximity to the Port Phillip Bay and Kananook Creek

would preclude lowering the rail corridor, leaving an elevated railway as the only feasible option.

However, it seems that these issues can be overcome with either elevated rail or a cut and cover method. We are told that the cut and cover method is 7% more than the cost of elevated rail.

If the case for removal is justified at all these crossings and the Victorian State Govt proceeds with their removal, we must demand design excellence and not allow any Govt to take a cheap option.

The Seaford Community Committee believes that work on this section of railway near the Kananook Creek could be both an environmental and an aesthetic risk if not undertaken with appropriate caution and planning.

Only excellent design will protect the sensitive environment in the Seaford / Frankston area and any design must be developed in conjunction with local environmental groups.================================================================================

As someone said recently: "Do it properly or don't do it at all. Really, I'm happy to wait at the current crossings, rather than end up with a bad result for the next 100-200 years."