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Does Palmer know the full history of Hasley's actions? I feel like she doesn't and I am surprise that even the Spartan IVS like Majestic didn't have any clue to who she was and was refereed to as a mad scientist.

All things consider, Halsey will get out of this situation one way or another. She is in contact with Librarian who probably gave her plenty of knowledge to keep the UNSC at bay. Though I am frighten by the thought of Chief finding out what the UNSC is doing to her, its going to be ugly if he does find out especially along with the other Spartan IIs aside from Naomi.

Does Palmer know the full history of Hasley's actions? I feel like she doesn't and I am surprise that even the Spartan IVS like Majestic didn't have any clue to who she was and was refereed to as a mad scientist.

I'm pretty sure an earlier episode dealt with allot of the SIV's knowing that Halsey had the original SII's kidnapped and turned into murder bots.

Though frankly, I never quite bought the supposed moral outrage everyone was experiencing over that. Is it a horrible human rights violation? Undoubtedly. But I'm not sure human rights violations are something that civilizations that have just come out of 28 years of xenocidal warfare are all that concerned about.

I sorta wonder if they initially came up with the idea of Halsey becoming a bit of a blacksheep, but then Karen Traviss turned it up to 11.

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Originally Posted by ReaperxKingx

All things consider, Halsey will get out of this situation one way or another. She is in contact with Librarian who probably gave her plenty of knowledge to keep the UNSC at bay. Though I am frighten by the thought of Chief finding out what the UNSC is doing to her, its going to be ugly if he does find out especially along with the other Spartan IIs aside from Naomi.

If we haven't heard about Master Chief in action yet In Spartan ops, I'd venture the guess that he's probably not on board the infinity. They've probably set him up on forced R&R, along with scientific testing to determine what exactly the Librarian did to him.

Well I can understand Palmer's attitude towards Halsey. If she does fully know what Halsey did during the war, then all the more reason to dislike her.

Palmer is a career soldier who's conditioned, for the lack of a better word, to respect the chain of command. So Halsey represents the opposite of everything she stands for - disregarding authority, compromising operational integrity et al, regardless of her good intentions and what Forerunner loot she brought back from her little Onyx excursion which, by then, the war had already ended. Not to mention taking a bunch of Spartans with her when they were most needed for the war effort.

I think it may help develop Palmer's character if it was revealed that she lost a lot of men during the war because she was promised Spartan backup and they didn't come cos Halsey took them.

Well I can understand Palmer's attitude towards Halsey. If she does fully know what Halsey did during the war, then all the more reason to dislike her.

Palmer is a career soldier who's conditioned, for the lack of a better word, to respect the chain of command. So Halsey represents the opposite of everything she stands for - disregarding authority, compromising operational integrity et al, regardless of her good intentions and what Forerunner loot she brought back from her little Onyx excursion which, by then, the war had already ended. Not to mention taking a bunch of Spartans with her when they were most needed for the war effort.

OTOH....all those Spartan augmentations that give her Spartan IV's the capability she's so proud of? ("Spartans do in 30 minutes what Marines do in 24 hours") That's something that Halsey created. It's kinda of hypocritical for Palmer to arrogantly lavish in her transhuman abilities while at the same time grilling Halsey for the methods she used to develop those transhuman augmentations in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Helius

I think it may help develop Palmer's character if it was revealed that she lost a lot of men during the war because she was promised Spartan backup and they didn't come cos Halsey took them.

Halsey didn't exactly *take* all those Spartans. She requested Spartan reinforcements from Lord Hood, and he gave them to her.

I think that's what pissed allot of older Halo EU fans off about the Karen Travis books. The way Halsey's detention was written came off as just a way for Traviss to soapbox how much she thought Halsey was a despicable person, while using a person who is arguably an even worse than Halsey as a mouth piece.

And keep in mind. This is coming from somebody who WANTED Halsey to go under the grills a little for what she did.

OTOH....all those Spartan augmentations that give her Spartan IV's the capability she's so proud of? ("Spartans do in 30 minutes what Marines do in 24 hours") That's something that Halsey created. It's kinda of hypocritical for Palmer to arrogantly lavish in her transhuman abilities while at the same time grilling Halsey for the methods she used to develop those transhuman augmentations in the first place.

Halsey didn't exactly *take* all those Spartans. She requested Spartan reinforcements from Lord Hood, and he gave them to her..

The problem isn't how Halsey requisitioned the Spartans so much as the fact that they all got stuck inside Onyx. She convinced Lord Hood that the expedition was worth diverting all those Spartans from their existing engagements.

Maybe she didn't know they would be trapped, or maybe she did. As far as ONI was concerned she could've sabotaged the war effort if things took a turn for the worst.

While I'm not advocating that how they treated Halsey was entirely justified, but with her being such a wild card who goes against the highest establishment and actually has the means to do so (embedding override codes inside Roland lol) I can see why they view her with contempt.

Well I can understand Palmer's attitude towards Halsey. If she does fully know what Halsey did during the war, then all the more reason to dislike her.

Technically speaking I think most people would be fine if the military hated Halsey for insubordination and taking the Spartans with her to Onyx when they could've been fighting on Earth.

The problem is that they're treating her like she's satan because she took kids and turned them into spartans. Even worse is that the people that are treating her like that are the ones who benefited from her work. I mean how can you treat a person as a "mass murderer" when your using things that that one person created for you to use to your benefit?

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I think that's what pissed allot of older Halo EU fans off about the Karen Travis books. The way Halsey's detention was written came off as just a way for Traviss to soapbox how much she thought Halsey was a despicable person, while using a person who is arguably an even worse than Halsey as a mouth piece.

Is that why Travis is taking it so personally?

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OTOH....all those Spartan augmentations that give her Spartan IV's the capability she's so proud of? ("Spartans do in 30 minutes what Marines do in 24 hours") That's something that Halsey created. It's kinda of hypocritical for Palmer to arrogantly lavish in her transhuman abilities while at the same time grilling Halsey for the methods she used to develop those transhuman augmentations in the first place.

It falls into that whole ethics about the experiments performed by the Nazis during WWII. They made great strides in science but at the cost of human lives so yeah it is hypocritical. You can't go and treat and talk down someone as a war criminal when your walking around using all of the benefits that came from that person's "ethical" work.

Based on the fact that Travis personally involved herself in online flame wars over how many Clone Troopers there were (her book said there were 3 million, people argued that was totally insufficient for fighting a galactic war), I'd say that's very likely.

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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

It falls into that whole ethics about the experiments performed by the Nazis during WWII. They made great strides in science but at the cost of human lives so yeah it is hypocritical. You can't go and treat and talk down someone as a war criminal when your walking around using all of the benefits that came from that person's "ethical" work.

I'd say Halsey has at least some moral high ground over Nazi scientists. They were doing unethical research to solely benefit a specific group (Aryans). Halsey did her unethical research to benefit the entire human race...and created super soldiers that DID proceed to actively protect the human race. This doesn't absolve Halsey of anything, but it should put things in perspective.

No. What personally irritates me about the setup? It's not that people call Halsey out on what she did. It's because all the people who call her out so vehemently are the same black ops "ends justifies the means" spooks. Parangosky okay'ed turning armies of orphaned kids into Spartans "for the greater good". Ossman went and propped up an Elite insurgency against the Elite faction that wanted to be friendly with humanity "for the greater good". And frankly, it wouldn't surprise me if Palmer carried out some downright dirty shit, "for the greater good" of course.

Based on the fact that Travis personally involved herself in online flame wars over how many Clone Troopers there were (her book said there were 3 million, people argued that was totally insufficient for fighting a galactic war), I'd say that's very likely.

Probably because countries like the Peoples Republic Of China's armed forces total about 2.3 million and that's just the Liberation army not including the Navy and Air Force and that's just on Planet Earth.

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I'd say Halsey has at least some moral high ground over Nazi scientists. They were doing unethical research to solely benefit a specific group (Aryans). Halsey did her unethical research to benefit the entire human race...and created super soldiers that DID proceed to actively protect the human race. This doesn't absolve Halsey of anything, but it should put things in perspective.

Oh no I'm just saying in comparisons since that's what they're treating as. Though I'm surprised that Bungie allow someone like Travis to go to such lengths to demonize Halsey.

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No. What personally irritates me about the setup? It's not that people call Halsey out on what she did. It's because all the people who call her out so vehemently are the same black ops "ends justifies the means" spooks. Parangosky okay'ed turning armies of orphaned kids into Spartans "for the greater good". Ossman went and propped up an Elite insurgency against the Elite faction that wanted to be friendly with humanity "for the greater good". And frankly, it wouldn't surprise me if Palmer carried out some downright dirty shit, "for the greater good" of course.

Pretty sure your not the only one. Interesting to see what'll happen after she meets with the Liberian and she's the other piece of the puzzle to what she did to John's DNA.

Probably because countries like the Peoples Republic Of China's armed forces total about 2.3 million and that's just the Liberation army not including the Navy and Air Force and that's just on Planet Earth.

See, normal people would realize they'd made a mistake, and offer an alternative explanation...or they'd just ignore it.

Karen Travis vehemently got into arguments about how it made sense for an army of 3 million soldiers/spacers could fight an inter galactic war.

Though its a different discussion over the miscalculation of an author, but I wonder what people's thoughts are about the Spartan IVS after 8 episodes.

The Spartan IVs thus far are the first Spartans to be ever counted as Prisoner of War. Despite being active for, I think a few years (estimated guess) they accumulated some casualties already. I think if Kelly was present on the Infinity, I think she would be saying something like they are worse than twitchy when evaluating them.