Celebrating the 5 year anniversary of his Blog YBBS (http://www.yourbbsucks.com/forum/index.php) activist writer Jon Gold joined me today on the Roberts Report. After years of diligent effort Mr. Gold reaches out to the 9/11 Truth movement as a whole and calls for fellow activists to step up to the plate. The Truth is we want a new investigation, other than that, we don’t know the Truth and Jon Gold would like us to remember that.

We discussed debunker sites, dis-info participants, and their followers- who may genuinely be misinformed or fooled while agreeing it is important to know what your adversaries have to say in order to overcome their damage. Listing ways we can approach them, Jon believes we could gradually bring them into the fold without allowing a platform for disinformation.

Best known for his article The Facts Speak for Themselves, Gold details 50 irrefutable facts for Truthers to utilize in their everyday arsenal. These facts such, no theory needs to be endorsed nor discussed when talking to people about the unTruths of what happened that day and what to do about it.

then you don't understand how corrupt the entire system is. Do you know the number of people who have been killed to suppress truth of all kinds? The number of heads of state who have succumbed to threats and bribes to do the bidding of corporate America? The complete subversion of the mainstream media? The billions of dollars spent on PR and spin to brainwash the population? The number of progressive writers who have been pressured (evidently) to support the OCT? Even the number of formerly productive truth researchers who now spend most of their energy supporting various aspects of the OCT (such as yes, there were Muslim hijackers, and yes, a plane did hit the Pentagon) -- Jim Hoffman being the most notable example?

To my mind, Jon is urging us to take a dangerously passive approach that will allow lies to grow while truth withers.

The heroes of this movement are those who do their own investigating, who give allegiance only to the truth, and then tell others what they have learned: Craig Ranke, Aldo Marquis, David Ray Griffin, Rob Balsamo, Aidan Monaghan, Matt Sullivan.

I'd be interested to hear exactly how you think this new investigation is going to happen, and how it is going to escape the effects of bribery, blackmail and death threats.

You really don't know what happened on 9/11... just so you know... you need to admit that, otherwise you're being dishonest with yourself, and everyone else you interact with with regards to 9/11. Jim Hoffman does not support the OCT, and I think it's disingenuous of you to state that he does. He does not promote theories that have a multitide of contradictions to them like you and others do, and he especially doesn't promote them as fact like you and others do.

You don't know what kind of investigating I have done over the years. Making phone calls, corresponding through email, etc... I hear about the kind of "investigating" some of those you mentioned have done, and to see you proclaim them as "heroes" is really laughable. When have they ever supported the families in their endeavors? When have they ever supported the responders in their endeavors? I could find you 1000 threads from me supporting both. I doubt you'd be able to find one from any of them.

I understand all too well how corrupt the "entire system is." If you actually listened to the interview, you would have heard me say that the reason I am taking part in "Peace Of The Action" is because I have tried to bring justice and accountability for the 9/11 attacks for almost 8 years and have had no success doing so using the "system."

Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? The facts speak for themselves.

In the face of that, sorry, but the deaths of a couple thousand Americans are all but irrelevant.

According to this site, 1,366,350 Iraqis have died as a result of our invasion, compared to 2,974 deaths on 9/11. 9/11 is important not because of the deaths caused that day, but because of the five hundred times greater -- and counting -- number of deaths it was used to justify -- and that is just in Iraq alone, not counting Pakistan and Afghanistan.

To believe that one American life is worth more than 500 Muslim lives is, Jon, frankly racist.

I can see the results of your "investigations" on this site, and I see that you have a lot to learn.

The brutal murders of 2,973 people that has never had a real criminal investigation is irrelevant. As for your stats about deaths taking place as a result of the event of 9/11, I suggest you read this to understand just how much I know about the "Post-9/11 World."

Insinuating that I am a racist is uncalled for, and quite frankly, I wish the people that run this site would ban you immediately, and if they don't, then quite frankly, I have to question the intentions of those who do run this site. Allowing charletans, and sockpuppets free reign on this site is a disgrace.

Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? The facts speak for themselves.

Is precious... WHY do you think I have been fighting this cause for as long as I have? Because I like to see people murdered based on a lie? Are you insane? What is your purpose Sheila? I have clearly stated too many times to count how much I want the wars to end, and that exposing the 9/11 Cover-Up has the power to do that. I just spent the last few nights working on the "Peace Of The Action" website because I am taking part in that action to END the wars. Seriously... what is your purpose here?

Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? The facts speak for themselves.

I didn't name names during my interview, or on this thread. If you are concerned about whether or not the individuals you mentioned are disinformationists, or perceived as such, then you need to take that up with them.

I don't know how a new investigation is going to happen. As was mentioned, the "system" doesn't work, and that's why I'm taking part in the "Peace Of The Action" because "there's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious—makes you so sick at heart—that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all."

Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? The facts speak for themselves.

"I hear about the kind of "investigating" some of those you mentioned have done, and to see you proclaim them as "heroes" is really laughable."

You now say "I didn't name names."

But you are bashing my heroes nonetheless. They are brave, amazing men, who didn't have to get involved in this. It didn't kill any members of their own families, yet they have worked tirelessly to advance truth and justice. Yet you read my comments and think I am proposing that they are "disinformationists?"

I'm just curious, did anyone else read what I said about Ranke, Marquis, Griffin, Monaghan, Balsamo and Sullivan and think I am "concerned about whether or not the individuals (I) mentioned are disinformationists"?

Sheila Casey said...."sorry, but the deaths of a couple thousand Americans are all but irrelevant."

These "irrelevant deaths" are the reason for the additional 5000 or so American Servicemen deaths, that you no doubt also consider irrelevant, along with the hundereds of thousands if not millions of other deaths, that you have decided merrit relevance.

I suggest we keep Sheila's thought's on the victims of 9/11 in mind every time she makes a post.

"the deaths of a couple thousand Americans are all but irrelevant."-- 9/11 truth activist Sheila Casey

"We are commiting genocide against Muslims in the middle east. In the face of that, sorry, but the deaths of a couple thousand Americans are all but irrelevant."

Yes, Jim, include that line each and every time you refer to me. Everyone needs to know about the genocide, and that 500 Iraqis have been killed for each American that died on 9/11. Kind of puts things in perspective, doesn't it?

Thanks for the perspective, but the cause of 9/11 truth is indispensable to the antiwar cause, no matter how stubborn many antiwar, anti-imperialist activists are on that point. In general, the line of rhetoric used above is characteristic of activists from the pro-OCT wing of the antiwar movement. Remembering the vicitims of the 9/11 attacks, and seeking to uncover the real culprits, is part of what motivates us--true. But I, for one, would never have gotten involved in this movement if I did not understand that exposing the 9/11 Big Lie is of the utmost importance in disempowering and bringing down the warmakers.

And it's clear to me, from her posts in other threads, that Sheila does understand the importance of exposing false-flag events (for example, I was very glad to have the information re the framing of Bruce Ivins for the anthrax attacks which she forwarded to this site back in late summer of 2008). So it's been very puzzling to me to see the tack taken in this thread.

It may be hazardous to guess or interpret, but I will venture to do so nonetheless:

It isn't really so much the QUANTITY of Middle Eastern Muslim deaths relative to U.S. deaths that is at issue here; but rather the QUALITY of any investigation which she apparently believes we are likely to get--one which might content itself to peel away at certain outer layers of the official story, but which would still allow for no substantial modification from the 'Muslims did it' storyline--even as that storyline continues to buttress U.S.-inflicted killing of Muslims in the Middle East.

the million+ Iraqis we've killed. It seems that's what CR is acknowledging. We can never be reminded of that enough(!!)....and it's ridiculous for someone to try to distort what SC was saying, by quoting half of her statement!

M said..."and it's ridiculous for someone to try to distort what SC was saying, by quoting half of her statement!"

Stop pretending we're idiots that aren't aware that people die in wars. Try as best you can to justify the statement that the dead on 9/11 are irrelevant. They're not, and to suggest they are is what is ridiculous.

The real heroes of this movement are the family members, first responders, whistleblowers, and ACTUAL researchers like Paul Thompson, Steven Jones, Michael C. Ruppert, Kevin Ryan, Jim Hoffman, John Judge...

Your post is an appalling example of how misguided some people have become in regards to 9/11 truth.

________________________
The key to successful truth actions lies in not insulting your target audience or promoting speculation as hard fact.

That's pretty much what she's doing... defending those who don't deserve it, making insuations about racism, that I have done nothing for this cause, and know nothing about 9/11... yea, she's pretty much a troll, and should be banned immediately.

Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? The facts speak for themselves.

and a civil response to this and other questions will be published in a timely manner.

She has also made numerous unsupported assertions and accusations against others and the site which she also needs to either provide some credible support for, modify or retract, or be content to stay in moderation permanently.

911blogger is not a free speech site, we have standards for conduct, evidence and reasoning, and we moderate based on those standards.

Just one word of warning about the names you chose to support or to attack.

I know as well as I can see my hand in front of my face that Rob Balsamo is spreading dis info in his latest film "9/11: World Trade Centre Attack" many others should be speaking out about this but I don't know of to many that have even seen this film.

WE must judge others by what they do and achieve for our cause of exposing the lies of 9/11.

Judge me on my record.

There will be an article coming soon exposing Balsamo and his no "767-200" hit the towers because of the impossible speed.

Unfortunately there is dis info out there and sometimes the wrong people are fingered, be careful who you support or you will be discredited by your association.

To respond to some of these comments: I agree and disagree with different things Sheila says, but as I know her in person, I can assure you she is not a troll or a provocateur, even if, in the simple sense, her comments "provoked."

First of all, I admire that her heart is bleeding for the millions of Iraqis and Afghans who have been killed and are continuing to be killed. And yes it is indeed true that there are roughly 500 Iraqis killed for every one person killed on 9/11.

I do NOT agree that it's "racist" for a particular activist to focus on the family members and first responders more proportionately than the Afghans or Iraqis being killed. Jon Gold is, at core, an anti-war activist in the big picture, not just a narrower 9/11 activist. Incidentally, this is another spot on which I disagree with wtcdemolition.com, which has accused 911blogger of being "Islamophobic." They say, and Sheila was echoing, the sentiment that anyone who believes anything less than "mihop" is still propping up the Islamofascist myth, and hence fueling the wars to continue.

However, there are many anti-war activists out there who don't buy into 9/11 truth at all --- and in some cases even insist that our movement serves to "discredit" the anti-war movement by making it look wacky --- and they understand that our foreign policy is racist and that all our troops need to come home now.

I do agree that some of the real heroes of the 9/11 truth movement are the ones who have done their own investigating. While many of us remain in the mode of "Hey, we're just asking questions and demanding a new investigation," some people are not satisfied with staying in this mode forever. Indeed many of us are indeed skeptical such an investigation will come any year or decade soon. As such, some people have already initiated this new investigation themselves on a citizen level, even without subpoena powers, etc.

For example, contrary to Gold's opinion that discussing and promoting the work of CIT "tacks on years to this cause," I think if anything it has subtracted years. Imagine, hypothetically, if the population rose up today, by the millions, in the streets, and demanded a new investigation. And, let's really put on the rose colored glasses, for the sake of this example, and imagine that this investigation not only happened, but was completely immune to infiltration and compromise. When it comes time to subpoena in some witnesses... hey! CIT has already provided so much ground work. We have such a plethora of witness testimony, on location and on film, which clues us in to what happened. Witness testimony we wouldn't have if it weren't for Craig and Aldo. Yes, they do draw conclusions, which makes some people uncomfortable (after all, drawing conclusions is for "conspiracy theorists," right?). But their work is to absolutely 100% be commended.

Indeed, EVERYONE doing their own thing and taking their own personal approach to this cause should be absolutely 100% commended.

'another spot on which I disagree with wtcdemolition.com, which has accused 911blogger of being "Islamophobic"....still propping up the Islamofascist myth, and hence fueling the wars to continue.'

Well, I would share in that disagreement. Apart from the fact that no website is perfect, and that the extent of one's agreement may vary from post to post, it is through 911blogger that I found what was, for me, critical information that specifically goes against the Islamofascist myth (both posted by none other than Reprehensor himself):

I wish that critics of this site, and of its moderators, would bear this in mind before going overboard in their criticisms.

'Indeed, EVERYONE doing their own thing and taking their own personal approach to this cause should be absolutely 100% commended.'

Such commending should not preclude the possibilty of criticism, though, if we think efforts are potentially doing more harm than good. A problem is that such criticism gets SO heated and quickly deterioriates into accusations and counteraccusations of being operatives working to sabotage the movement. Even though we might wish to keep such suspicions in check, it can become difficult to do so when the rhetoric gets so heated--long on tone, short on reasoning.

When people present hypotheses here they should expect them to be critiqued.

The tone of the critique should remain civil as should any response to said critique.

Where there is insufficient information, multiple hypotheses are possible and it is up to each individual to decide which hypothesis makes the most sense to them.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts, physics and/or logic.

With so many gaps in what is credibly known about the events of 9/11/01 there is much room for disagreement and thus we must agree to disagree while we continue to uncover more information and refine, modify or reject our hypotheses. This is the scientific method, plain and simple.

Its heartening to see people finally understanding that in order to reach people, we must use logic and facts with the underlying purpose of initiating a new independent investigation of 9/11.

Shying away from loopy sounding theories and marginalizing the more eccentric types from our ranks will add to our credibility as a whole. And if we want to be successful, then we must demand respect in return for remaining as credible as possible.

This is all about keeping our eyes on the prize.

________________________
The key to successful truth actions lies in not insulting your target audience or promoting speculation as hard fact.

I really appreciate the call for unity and hope we can all come to understand that our common ground is that we don't know the truth but want to. Thanks for this, Jon, and thanks to all who are out there making a difference every day. Hope is only possible through actions, and actions that are public. Major kudos to those of you taking it to the streets and demanding a new investigation. If the next investigation is compromised, we will demand another, and another, and another until we learn the truth. We owe it to the thousands that died that day, and the millions that have died since.