thanks, mike. i'm casting the ring a little later. decided to go from wax to metal then to mold. that'll let me clean up a little on a piece that's a little stronger that 2mm thick wax. i had it pop apart between the beaks. no big deal, just melt it back together on the bottom. i'lll smooth out the rough spot later. i hope these sell well. not too many shopping days until xmas!