So, because in one of the few times we see him in combat he used FL we assume that anything with a vaguely similar description was him using FL? :/

I gave evidence within the context, which supported my claim that Vitiate wasn't capable, of repeating his Charged force lightning storm, with him having the ability to target multiply opponents with it. If he did have superiority, he would not of been vulnerable to Meetra/scourge. Who were overwhelmed, by Nyriss who is fodder to Vitiate. He could of blasted them away with a force wave, then overwhelmed Revan with another charged lightning strike. But he couldn't since he was looking for an opportunity, to get past Revans defence.

If they died, instantly with that context then yeah. But anyway I proved my point with Nyriss.

Originally posted by Haschwalth I gave evidence within the context, which supported my claim that Vitiate wasn't capable, of repeating his Charged force lightning storm, with him having the ability to target multiply opponents with it. If he did have superiority, he would not of been vulnerable to Meetra/scourge. Who were overwhelmed, by Nyriss who is fodder to Vitiate. He could of blasted them away with a force wave, then overwhelmed Revan with another charged lightning strike. But he couldn't since he was looking for an opportunity, to get past Revans defence.

If they died, instantly with that context then yeah. But anyway I proved my point with Nyriss.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova Proof Nyriss is "fodder" to Vitiate?

Pretty much what supreme said,
A Drugged Revan, who was just freed after 3 years of Mental torture, on a Dark Side Nexus, casually redirects Nyriss's charged FLS, back at her which was capable of incinerating Meetra/scourge.

Revan then described Vitiates Charged FLS as "infinitely" more powerful.

Still don't think that means Vitiate killing a DC "in a flash of light" means he did so so with a FLS or that he was capable of unleashing a one that encompassed a wider area with a level of potency that would have guaranteed his victory. I.E. Vitiate assessing the threat Scourge and Meetra posed before attacking doesn't equate to him waiting for an opening.

Haschwalth, incinerating an already downed and defenseless pair doesn't equate to incinerating them when they're actually capable of defending themselves.

People seriously misread that fight. Nyriss was just too fast, that's what gave her the advantage the entire time. She starts off with forcing them into dodging her Force lightning, and then diving in between them so fast that she catches them off-guard.

Scourge gets fodderised because he can't react to Nyriss' strikes, but Meetra is stated to hold her ground in a 1-on-1 duel. She is only overwhelmed by Nyriss' strength, not in skill.

Scourge launches a telekinetic interrupt which barely affects Nyriss, before he charges and gets ragdolled. Then Nyriss hits Meetra with a lightning strike, Meetra's instinctive barriers absorb most of the attack, but the rest manages to knock her down and keep her incapacitated.

Given Nyriss' lightning is nigh-instantly charring armoured guards to husks, with a single fork, this isn't a bad thing for Meetra at all.

Reason being that Meetra is recovering from her kneeling position, and isn't even capable of producing a proper Force barrier, which is stated to be ineffectual against directed energy attacks. Give her time to produce an actual Tutaminis defense and she would've faired much better.

Not to forget the fact that Meetra is severely adversely affected by Dromund Kaas itself, and a few days earlier was almost obliterated by the Void of Nathema.

__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.

Haschwalth, incinerating an already downed and defenseless pair doesn't equate to incinerating them when they're actually capable of defending themselves.

What they had time to channel tutaminis, to catch Nyriss attack. They just weren't strong enough to survive it.

quote:

People seriously misread that fight. Nyriss was just too fast, that's what gave her the advantage the entire time. She starts off with forcing them into dodging her Force lightning, and then diving in between them so fast that she catches them off-guard.

Being faster is an inidication of having a superior connection to the force, and the fact they had to dodge her lightning just further indicates they can't compete with her.

quote:

Scourge gets fodderised because he can't react to Nyriss' strikes, but Meetra is stated to hold her ground in a 1-on-1 duel. She is only overwhelmed by Nyriss' strength, not in skill.

What we are getting at is strength, Meetra was not strong enough to survive a charged force lightning from Nyriss, Revan casually stop that attack. Skill has no play in this.

quote:

Scourge launches a telekinetic interrupt which barely affects Nyriss, before he charges and gets ragdolled. Then Nyriss hits Meetra with a lightning strike, Meetra's instinctive barriers absorb most of the attack, but the rest manages to knock her down and keep her incapacitated.

Given Nyriss' lightning is nigh-instantly charring armoured guards to husks, with a single fork, this isn't a bad thing for Meetra at all.

Reason being that Meetra is recovering from her kneeling position, and isn't even capable of producing a proper Force barrier, which is stated to be ineffectual against directed energy attacks. Give her time to produce an actual Tutaminis defense and she would've faired much better.

Not to forget the fact that Meetra is severely adversely affected by Dromund Kaas itself, and a few days earlier was almost obliterated by the Void of Nathema

I'm sorry all you are proving is that Nyriss is leagues ahead of Meetra. Even with Tutamini's she wouldn't of survived if she had to dodge Nyriss's normal lightning, and her barriers were overwhelmed. Vitiate on the other hand had to find an opening, to blow past revans defensives with Force lightning, and couldn't instantly overwhelmed him like Nyriss could with Meetra/scourge.

Because they were both on the floor when she launched her FLS attack, not because they weren't powerful enough to attempt defending against it.

You're applying a massive generalisation of the fight and ignoring the context within it.

Meetra lost because she was severely hindered by the very same nexus empowering Nyriss. Scourge was nigh useless from the start, so he's barely worth discussing.

My point is that you're trying to present Nyriss potentially incinerating Meetra and Scourge as if they were both prepared to meet her attack. They weren't. The difference is enormous.

She took them off-guard via Force augmentation and took advantage of that, an advantage available because of the environment. With said advantage she temporarily incapacitated them, allowing her the ability to incinerate defenseless opponents.

Context.

__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.

You literally said, that Nyriss normal force lightning broke through and incapacitated,
Meetra. Force augmentation is generally an indication, of how strong one is, and Meetra is a master of Physical augmentation. If her normal force lightning could burst through her barriers, or not use a lightsaber to deflect it. How on earth is Meetra suppose to tutaminis a Charged force lightning, if she can barely counter a weaker one or have time to.

From the showings, the gap between Revan and Vitiate is smaller than that of Nyriss and Meetra/scourge, and if Revan still received 2nd degree burns, Meetra is a lot worse off. Anyway where is the evidence that the dark side Nexus gave Nyriss as much of a boost as you believe, at best its the difference between the tiny fraction of power, Revan could not contain from Vitiate Charged force storm.

She broke through the instinctive Force barrier of a Meetra who was still getting to her feet and in a compromised position. Hardly the same thing as mounting a genuine defense. Force barriers, as LeGenD has pointed out before, are not designed to counter Force lightning. It takes Tutaminis to block/absorb/reflect Sith lightning, and even the most powerful Jedi Masters have difficulty countering such attacks with said technique.

Given all of that, it's actually very impressive for Meetra's instinctive barriers to be capable of absorbing the worst of Nyriss' lightning.

We know Dromund Kaas is that powerful, because the most powerful Jedi of all time (FOTJ Luke) went there thousands of years after the planet was at its most potent, and described the energy there as 'psychic sewage' which slowed both his and Jaina Solo's reflexes so much that random Sith Sabers, who were amplified by that power, became a decent fight.

Not to mention corrupting Kyle Katarn to the dark side and blinding Mara Jade from the light side of the Force.

We also have the fact that Lord Scourge, at the beginning of the novel, states that he could empower himself through the dark side energy 'pulsating' from the Dark Citadel to keep him going for hours. Despite being on the very outskirts of the city.

Furthermore, we know for a fact that the Emperor transformed Dromund Kaas with a ritual which saw the atmosphere permanently tainted with dark side miasma, something Meetra reacts to immediately upon entering orbit of the planet.

Just so you know, dark side miasma is the same storm-like taint which is seen within the tombs of ancient Sith Lords such as Ludo Kressh and Freedon Nadd, which could cause hallucinations in the Exile's mind and corrupt Jedi such as Visas Marr, Brianna, and Mical on contact.

Dromund Kaas is essentially engineered by Vitiate to be extremely potent with the dark side of the Force.

__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.