AuthorTopic: Recruiting problem (Read 2489 times)

Is beleima horrible at evaluating the talent of high school players, bad at player development? Or is it something else? We have a kicker who was the #1 ranked kicker out of high school who can't kick field goals. The offensive line depth is a appalling. The hogs are average at running back, which may be largely due to aforementioned offensive line. And I've never seen a QB regress like AA. It looks like he is freshman in his first two starts. So how have the hogs gotten to this point? If The offense plays like wet garbage again vs the Aggies is AA out and Cole Kelley in? My opinion, IF Arkansas struggles again moving the ball vs the Aggies Kelley will be given an opportunity to see if the offense plays better with him. At that point coach B will be desperate because he will know he is coaching for his job. But has he recruited and/or developed players at the other positions well enough to salvage this season regardless who is at QB?

With the recruiting challenges the program faces it puts a heavier requirement on evaluation. There aren’t enough diamonds in the rough to built a roster. I thought TCU was similar as far as talent is concerned, but we will be facing more talented teams in short order.

Is beleima horrible at evaluating the talent of high school players, bad at player development? Or is it something else? We have a kicker who was the #1 ranked kicker out of high school who can't kick field goals. The offensive line depth is a appalling. The hogs are average at running back, which may be largely due to aforementioned offensive line. And I've never seen a QB regress like AA. It looks like he is freshman in his first two starts. So how have the hogs gotten to this point? If The offense plays like wet garbage again vs the Aggies is AA out and Cole Kelley in? My opinion, IF Arkansas struggles again moving the ball vs the Aggies Kelley will be given an opportunity to see if the offense plays better with him. At that point coach B will be desperate because he will know he is coaching for his job. But has he recruited and/or developed players at the other positions well enough to salvage this season regardless who is at QB?

I think his problem is that he knows what kind of player can be competitive in the Big 10, but not what kind of player can be competitive in the SEC. It's also hard for me to imagine him winning over too many Southeastern moms in the living room.

I think his problem is that he knows what kind of player can be competitive in the Big 10, but not what kind of player can be competitive in the SEC. It's also hard for me to imagine him winning over too many Southeastern moms in the living room.

Well, since we have not recruited well since joining the sec we have not had any coach able to win over many southeastern moms. HDN pre-2005 was probably the best we have had at doing that.

Well, since we have not recruited well since joining the sec we have not had any coach able to win over many southeastern moms. HDN pre-2005 was probably the best we have had at doing that.

HDN probably has done the best, but I'd submit that Arkansas has never really had a cracker-jack recruiter as a head coach since entering the league. Therefore, I'm not convinced that Arkansas is impossible to recruit to. I just don't think the program has ever had a top-flight recruiter during its SEC years.

Ty Clary is starting at RG. That tells you all you need to know about Offensive Line recruiting and development. There is the #1 problem with this team and coaching staff.

That is not to bash Ty. It's just he should be redshirting right now. Same goes for Froholdt last year. Neither should have had to play when they did.

The fact that a kid that had no major offers can come in without redshirting and be your most capable RG, the guy you're going to go to war with in SEC play, tells me that we have no idea what we're doing in OL recruiting and coaching. The poor kid got physically whipped several times by a Big12 D-line. It's not his fault.

HDN probably has done the best, but I'd submit that Arkansas has never really had a cracker-jack recruiter as a head coach since entering the league. Therefore, I'm not convinced that Arkansas is impossible to recruit to. I just don't think the program has ever had a top-flight recruiter during its SEC years.

I'll contend that Saban would recruit no better than 6th in the SEC at AR, over time. I do think he would, on name alone, do better the 1st year or 2, but over time he would suffer from the same recruiting issues every other coach here suffers under.

I think his problem is that he knows what kind of player can be competitive in the Big 10, but not what kind of player can be competitive in the SEC. It's also hard for me to imagine him winning over too many Southeastern moms in the living room.

If that was really the problem then we should be able to take on Ohio State, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Penn State shouldn't we? Also, it doesn't appear to me that moms are his problem. From where I sit, women seem to like him pretty well. My wife met him and liked him. And I've heard other women defend him when he gets criticism.

I'll contend that Saban would recruit no better than 6th in the SEC at AR, over time. I do think he would, on name alone, do better the 1st year or 2, but over time he would suffer from the same recruiting issues every other coach here suffers under.

I totally agree. Arkansas coaches will probably always struggle in recruiting. Our best teams are usually led by someone we got lucky on or some over-achiever that started out as a 3 star.

I'll contend that Saban would recruit no better than 6th in the SEC at AR, over time. I do think he would, on name alone, do better the 1st year or 2, but over time he would suffer from the same recruiting issues every other coach here suffers under.

I agree to some degree with this but I think the outcome would be significantly different. Using last years 24/7 numbers the 6th place team in the SEC would have been 13-14 th in the nation. I suggest that those 3-5star and 7-4star players over a 2 year period would make one heck of a talent rise by year 3. I also suggest that the winning will pick up incredibly and open us up to getting the whole recruiting thing turned around. I also realize how expensive this would be. With saban would come major increases in pay both for him and the assistants he would have. I believe the injection of winning/hope/excitement for the whole program would pay for it. JMHO

I'll contend that Saban would recruit no better than 6th in the SEC at AR, over time. I do think he would, on name alone, do better the 1st year or 2, but over time he would suffer from the same recruiting issues every other coach here suffers under.

I hate when people think Arkansas can't win because of recruiting. Houston Nutt won, Bobby P won, neither were fired because of Wins and Losses. Are you telling me that Arkansas can't out recruit Texas Tech, TCU, Mizzou, and Toledo? Arkansas is not this terrible program that always has sucked that you always seem to try to make them out to be. They've averaged eight wins a year since going to a 12 game schedule pre Bielama.

I hate when people think Arkansas can't win because of recruiting. Houston Nutt won, Bobby P won, neither were fired because of Wins and Losses. Are you telling me that Arkansas can't out recruit Texas Tech, TCU, Mizzou, and Toledo? Arkansas is not this terrible program that always has sucked that you always seem to try to make them out to be. They've averaged eight wins a year since going to a 12 game schedule pre Bielama.

Show me a top 15 recruiting class in the last 40 years. Might be one. I doubt it. Recruiting will always be problematic at Arkansas. Recruiting wasn't the problem Saturday.

Show me a top 15 recruiting class in the last 40 years. Might be one. I doubt it. Recruiting will always be problematic at Arkansas. Recruiting wasn't the problem Saturday.

You don't need a Top 15 class to win at a pretty high level. It helps. It helps avoid down years, but they still happen. But to be a Top 25 program recruiting anywhere in the Top 40 will get it done IF you do everything else right.

My main problem right now isn't even the loss, and I understand our challenges when it comes to recruiting, but we do have talent on campus. I see other teams weekly that play with inferior talent, but they at least execute a reasonable game plan and play hard on the field. We look lost in all facets of the game. We may not ever be as talented as Alabama, or LSU from an overall stand-point, but we can at least field a team that is fundamentally sound with a decent game-plan that will play hard, and we aren't doing that right now. Take Nicholls State for example. I know A&m is down, but Nicholls State was greatly outmatched from a talent standpoint and they gave them a fight. They looked like a decent team that was well coached, but were unevenly matched talent wise They executed a game plan and made it a game. I hate to lose, but I hate the way we are losing even more, and when you have a team that finishes the season they way we did last year and then with a whole off-season comes out and looks like we looked on Saturday, that is poor coaching, and that is very hard to overcome. Even people who rely solely on stars and recruiting cant say that TCU out-talented us on Saturday. They outplayed us and out coached us, in all facets of the game.

The fact that a kid that had no major offers can come in without redshirting and be your most capable RG, the guy you're going to go to war with in SEC play, tells me that we have no idea what we're doing in OL recruiting and coaching. The poor kid got physically whipped several times by a Big12 D-line. It's not his fault.

Actually we have more than him on the OL (that at this time not ready for P-5 level competition) but you are spot on!

According to most analysis i have heard, the problems in the passing game were not AA, but that the receivers were not where they are supposed to be, and AA having to run for his life.

WRs not getting tremendous separation but AA not getting it on time as well. Offense can get better through the year but is definitely not where they should have been to begin the season. AA played tentative vs trying to fit it into windows.

TCU has a ton of seniors on that team. We didn't get dominated by their defense because of their vastly superior players. 8 men in the box made it look way to easy.

EVERYONE we play is going to put 8 in the box. It's how you beat a BB style offense. Same thing people will do against Bama. The difference Bama has the talent to run against an 8 man front on nearly anyone in FCS. We don't!

TCU has a ton of seniors on that team. We didn't get dominated by their defense because of their vastly superior players. 8 men in the box made it look way to easy.

Over and under on the number of quarters Allen makes it against A&M? If you saw what that defense was doing in the first half against UCLA, the you have to doubt that Allen makes it through the game.

There should probably be an over under on number of games he makes it this year as well. I just don't see him being able to make it through the kind of punishment he took last year against Bama and LSU.

Here's my opinion. The only way we will ever really win at a high level is with a coach that is a complete scumbag and will do anything to get great athletes to campus or a coach that is an offensive or defensive genius that can raise a bunch of 3 stars to a high level of play. We struck gold with Petrino and his first recruiting class of stud in state receivers and had some great years. The thing is, either of these types of coaches will give you short term success but ultimately leave your program in a much worse position after they leave or are fired.

I respect Bielema and what he stands for and how he truly cares for his players. However, he's not going to win at Arkansas, in the SEC, by "doing it the right way." I love that he has high standards and want him to be successful, but it just isn't going to happen here. As bad as it sounds, the only way I see us really being elite is to start recruiting more of the "thug" type athletes, or by having some help from wealthy boosters...

College sports, especially football, is truly a dirty business. As fans, we have to ask ourselves if we would rather win at all costs and probably suffer some eventual consequences, or are we content having mediocre seasons doing it the "right way."

I want to win as bad as anyone, in fact, I'm a coach. I know what to expect (6-8 wins) and can at least swallow the mediocrity knowing Bielema is a man of integrity. Fans need to do themselves a favor and not expect 10+ wins and games like Saturday won't be as big of a shock.

You don't need a Top 15 class to win at a pretty high level. It helps. It helps avoid down years, but they still happen. But to be a Top 25 program recruiting anywhere in the Top 40 will get it done IF you do everything else right.

LOL. Do You really believe that? If you have the 25th ranked recruiting class, that is still likely 8th or worse in the SEC.

In reality, Arkansas HS Football is failing us. We should be able to get a much better crop out of those ranks than we do. We just simply don't put any focus on "Extra-Curriculum" functions at the HS level. Thus, we don't develop enough talent to pull from (at Upper tier SEC Level anyway). I remember years ago, we could always get a nice crop coming in from Ark. HS level, then supplement with North Texas kids and we competed well. Now, its like we only get 1 or 2 per year that is SEC level. The 1 per year 4 or 5 star always seems to bail to Saban or Calipari (Monk in BBall). When I was young, no one hardly considered the thought of not going to U of A. I remember how devastating it was when Keith Jackson skipped to OU....that was almost unheard of in those days. How do we get Arkansas Football back to some symbol of prominence? If we don't, any coach will struggle with recruiting. CBP got away with it b/c he was just a good enough coach to make average talent good.

In reality, Arkansas HS Football is failing us. We should be able to get a much better crop out of those ranks than we do. We just simply don't put any focus on "Extra-Curriculum" functions at the HS level. Thus, we don't develop enough talent to pull from (at Upper tier SEC Level anyway). I remember years ago, we could always get a nice crop coming in from Ark. HS level, then supplement with North Texas kids and we competed well. Now, its like we only get 1 or 2 per year that is SEC level. The 1 per year 4 or 5 star always seems to bail to Saban or Calipari (Monk in BBall). When I was young, no one hardly considered the thought of not going to U of A. I remember how devastating it was when Keith Jackson skipped to OU....that was almost unheard of in those days. How do we get Arkansas Football back to some symbol of prominence? If we don't, any coach will struggle with recruiting. CBP got away with it b/c he was just a good enough coach to make average talent good.

I was thinking Sat how the Hogs mirror Ar Hs Football. Slow, small, and not terribly athletic.

But it is not a lack of practice or emphasis on extra curricular activities. FS Southside has been practicing, doing off season, etc, every day they are allowed, but they still got clubbed twice already. The 1st time I saw them in pre season I was shocked at how physically small they are.

I am not sayng there are not good athletes in the state, but elite level ones are very very few.

Arkansas is a small state it will never produce enough SEC talent by itself for us to win. I think high school talent wise Arkansas does decent when you put it in perspective. Some how some way we have got figure out a way to get our recruiting to match programs like OU and TN neither state produce enough talent by themselves to be competitive but both do an excellent job of bringing in talent from all over. TALL order but that is the blueprint.

I think high school talent wise Arkansas does decent when you put it in perspective.

Really? Mississippi has almost the exact same population, yet produces something like 4 times the # of p5 conf signees as does AR. TN is close to ATL, as well as some other large recruiting areas. OU has had a presence in North Texas for just about ever.

Really? Mississippi has almost the exact same population, yet produces something like 4 times the # of p5 conf signees as does AR. TN is close to ATL, as well as some other large recruiting areas. OU has had a presence in North Texas for just about ever.

I'm gonna go there not trying to start anything but MS has over 1.1 million African Americans living there AR has 450K. I agree that TN and OK have some recruiting advantages over Arkansas due to location, a history of winning being the biggest advantage, but unless Arkansas can find a sweet spot to get recruits...it will probably be more of the same for us.

Is beleima horrible at evaluating the talent of high school players, bad at player development? Or is it something else? We have a kicker who was the #1 ranked kicker out of high school who can't kick field goals. The offensive line depth is a appalling. The hogs are average at running back, which may be largely due to aforementioned offensive line. And I've never seen a QB regress like AA. It looks like he is freshman in his first two starts. So how have the hogs gotten to this point? If The offense plays like wet garbage again vs the Aggies is AA out and Cole Kelley in? My opinion, IF Arkansas struggles again moving the ball vs the Aggies Kelley will be given an opportunity to see if the offense plays better with him. At that point coach B will be desperate because he will know he is coaching for his job. But has he recruited and/or developed players at the other positions well enough to salvage this season regardless who is at QB?

Austin wasn't the issue. Everyone saying he is holding the ball too long would be screaming to high heaven if he went ahead and threw into coverage and got intercepted.

The problem with mmqb is that most of the people who feel so strongly about what is right and wrong have a shallow, at best, understanding of what is really going on on the field. Their understanding is typically topped out at looking at the score board.

It has nothing to do with our recruits, when it's this; Why do we give minimal effort, our play calling is bland and vanilla, we can't even attempt a pass of 30 yds, and we just always play so conservatively that we choke our offense on obvious go for it 4th down opportunities, especially late in the game. That's coaching men, no one else is to blame for how we don't even appear competitive in bad loses to slightly better, equal, or lesser teams.

It has nothing to do with our recruits, when it's this; Why do we give minimal effort, our play calling is bland and vanilla, we can't even attempt a pass of 30 yds, and we just always play so conservatively that we choke our offense on obvious go for it 4th down opportunities, especially late in the game. That's coaching men, no one else is to blame for how we don't even appear competitive in bad loses to slightly better, equal, or lesser teams.

The real "will" to win is found nowhere in the football program right now top to bottom..Sat showed that...compared to other games I watched, this is very apparent and unacceptable. Blame who you want...but **** rolls down hill.

I'm gonna go there not trying to start anything but MS has over 1.1 million African Americans living there AR has 450K. I agree that TN and OK have some recruiting advantages over Arkansas due to location, a history of winning being the biggest advantage, but unless Arkansas can find a sweet spot to get recruits...it will probably be more of the same for us.

right on about the demographics. As far as finding a " sweet spot" to get recruits, good luck with that whoever is the HC.

BB is the head coach therefore he gets the blame but I believe poor coaching is only 25% of our problem. The kids seem to like BB, they seem to be coachable young men and I know they like winning. It's not like when HDN took over from Ford most of the players hated Ford! Nutt's first year those kids played lights out for him. So why aren't they winning? Folks when you lock up with a 300lb + monster good coaching certainly helps but it can only go so far TALENT and DESIRE takes you the rest the way. I am not sure I see enough talent or desire out there to be optimistic about the season.

right on about the demographics. As far as finding a " sweet spot" to get recruits, good luck with that whoever is the HC.

Oh I agree HUGE task finding a sweet spot! But all the other alternatives are just as HUGE! I'm probably going to catch it now but...The idea that a coach here in Arkansas (really any school in the SEC) can take a bunch 2*-3* star recruits and "coach them up" and go win the SEC Title and compete for a division championship every other year...is and naïve and unrealistic!

EXACTLY, and that has been the problem for about 40 years, and especially since joining the SEC.

And will be for the next 40 years, regardless of who is coaching. It's just who we are. It's who Virginia, Iowa, North Carolina, Missouri, South Carolina, Kentucky, and Maryland are too. It's a recruiting base issue, and we can see it in these programs. We're just too close to see it in our own.

What I don't understand is this, for a guy who came here touting building the team behind the offensive line and has signed some highly recruited guys on the line, how do we end up with a situation with a converted d-lineman and two former walk ons as starters? Either the evaluation process hasn't worked or the development has been very poor.

And will be for the next 40 years, regardless of who is coaching. It's just who we are. It's who Virginia, Iowa, North Carolina, Missouri, South Carolina, Kentucky, and Maryland are too. It's a recruiting base issue, and we can see it in these programs. We're just too close to see it in our own.

People see it, they just do not want to acknowledge it because IT CAN NOT BE FIXED.

I don't care if the guys gets majority 3 stars as long as he can coach with intensity and make in game adjustments. CBB has recruiting at a higher level than most of his predecessors, at a time when the SEC is beaming with talent and recruiting is scrutinized as ever. Problem is, he doesn't know what to do with it and is a TERRIBLE game day coach. I mean absolutely AWFUL! Bobby wasn't a great recruiter, and has fared much better at UL (even after multiple stains to already shaky rep). He benefited from a rare in-state crop that were at the positions that he utilizes and needs most to be successful. The stars aligned for the Hogs there. He's also a offensive genius and is intense as it gets! That's what we're missing. Give me a coach that can develop players, have them play hard and fast and coaches with that much intensity of an incompetent buffoon that leads you to believe he's doing all the right things, but doesn't have the results to back it up.

What I don't understand is this, for a guy who came here touting building the team behind the offensive line and has signed some highly recruited guys on the line, how do we end up with a situation with a converted d-lineman and two former walk ons as starters? Either the evaluation process hasn't worked or the development has been very poor.

THIS! I can't say this enough! As soon as I saw Clary emerge as the starter for first game, I knew we were in trouble. Should be ZERO excuse for that lack of player development.

Average fan assumed the majority of reps had started being given to a select few WRs in the last week of camp at the latest. They weren't. This staff had to see a lack of chemistry in the passing game in TWO GAMES. Coach B still on the job training in year 5 getting $4 million. It didn't occur to him you had to put wrinkles in your playbook each week till year 3. He's shown a talent for recruiting, just can't see what he's got once it's here. Recruiting good. Coaching bad. Real bad.