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CHRIS said:
Let me tell ya a story…
- Palm/PocketPC
- Netscape/Internet Explorer
- PSP/Xbox
- Word Perfect/Word
- Lotus 123/Excel
- Turbo Pascal/Visual Basic
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Wrong: Turbo Pascal by Borland beat Microsoft Pascal. Currently Borland's Delphi is behind Visual Basic, but not beaten either.
2 of your items are really just Office. Lotus vs Word Perfect vs Office and Clearly Office has won this battle.
-Palm's not beaten either. It's still a strong competitor.
-Netscape is now Firefox is again pressuring IE (down but not out).
-PlayStation is SONY - Don't count them out! They battle with the likes of Sun, Oracle, and IBM. The Game Console market is far from belonging to any one vendor and MS has paid Billions to be a player. That said, the Live features stand to supporting Windows, so all they have to do is learn to break even on XBox to be ahead overall.
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Aren't we talking about Apple and iPods? So put a Power Point viewer on the Zune, and a PowerPoint Compatible Keynote viewer on the iPod. Word viewer on Zone and Word Compatible Pages viewer on iPod. The world would be a better place.
Leveraging Windows is extremely important for MS, but I think Apple is about to play a trump card. iWork with an Excel like Spreadsheet program.
I have a dream... iWork for Windows. And a dual license so run it with one license on one install of MacOS and one Windows. Use it at Work and Home, or MacOS and Windows in Parallels.
I won't try to say Office is bad, but let's face it, there's a ton of features that corporations don't even use. They were added for nitch markets or maybe some just to say they have more features, but a much simpler (but not simple) program would do everything a Corporation would need.
With an Apple Office app, Apple can leverage the MacOS the same way MS has leveraged Windows.
To say it another way, Window w/o Office couldn't dominate. Yes, MS Office is available for the mac, but it's missing some key corporate features. Apple seems on track to add the last big chunck to MacOS this spring (according to ThinkSecret.com and other rumor sites).
Word - Pages in iWork
Excel - Coming in the Spring to iWork
Outlook - Mail/Address Book/iCal in MacOS
PowerPoint - Keynote in iWork
Access - FileMaker available for Mac or Windows from FileMaker INC.
And don't forget Exchange Server - iCal Server.
Video iPods can already show Keynote presentations, just export from Keynote to Quicktime and select iPod compatible. You could also play PowerPoint on an iPod by opening with Keynote, but obviously it's an extra step and extra program.
Wm

LOL, I've seen a couple in that range, but they probably were long after the initual launch.
Even loosing money on a project like that can lead to profits in the next couple releases of similar products. It's clear they make a profit these days.
I'm not sure, but they may even have made the first monitor to require teh Dual Link DVI when they release that really high rez 30" LCD monitor.
Wm

Loyalty has a life expectancy. Eventually the facts have an effect. PCs finally caught up with Macs performace marks and even surpassed. The Mac Faithful were entrenched. It wasn't purly a matter of performance to them, but was a point of pride while it was true. It was hard to let go of that point for a long time, but they finally did because Apple didn't regain that title in a couple Mac revisions.
Add to that that missconceptions die just as hard, on both sides of the issue.
Does Apple WARRENTY SUPPORT suck? Let's be more specific: Does IPOD warrenty support suck?
SUCK is a subjective term, so let's be secific here too: Are Apple iPod customers who have to deal with IPOD WARRENTY SUPPORT generally dissatisfied enough to NEVER BUY AN IPOD AGAIN?
And be honest, do we have any solid data to support our opinions? I don't.
I've never had a problem with an iPod, and never seen a Survey that was specific enough to offer any evidence here.
Wm
P. S. I'm a mac faithful and a windows user. I find most people will argue w/o the evidence... we all just love to agrue, and don't need a valid reason to do it. I'd say that along with everone else in this thread, I'm guilty of it, untill now. Over and out.

Actually, if the Zune came with a program on it to do that to my mac, I'd be peved at OS X and agree with MS (dispite the lack of appology for the part they had some control over).
But we'd have to be ASSUMING the complete reversal or rolls where a mac put the program on the Zune in production w/o MS's knowlege.
So with that HUGE assumption, you better belive I'd live by my words and I'd be extremely dissatisfied with my OS X and not MS for pointing it out. The lack of appology would be overshadowed by the problem at hand. And if malware were to become a common problem on OS X, I'd have a horrible ongoing satisfaction issue {which I clearly don't have with OS X}.
I recommend Ghost 8 for backup so Windows can be restored to an image before the problem was found. It's terribly inconvenient, but other types of backups often contain the problem, or don't eliminate it when the system get's restored. This Windows senario is an example of the type of dissatisfaction I would have for OS X if the rolls were reversed. It's not the Windows system and functionality as much as the virus, security, and other malware issues that causes the most dissatisfaction amongst my clients.
If there were no malware and security issues with Windows, all my clients would be a lot more efficent and would have a lot less stress (except the crazy one, but he's an exception).
I try to always live by my words and put my money where my mouth is. If I had even half the trouble with my macs that I have with my PCs, I wouldn't bother to maintain the Macs. But obviously Macs run very well for me, and for the clients of mine that have them (and if you knew some of my clients, that's saying a lot).
And I totally disagree with your Opinion about Apple's Public Image. My OPINION is that they are Youthful, cool, fun, hip, grovie... etc (not cold, ridgid, borring, old... etc). But I don't feel that that's worth fighting over now that I've said my peice.
Wm

Zoom a Zoom Zoom Zoom, and a boom boom... the Zune can't get up.
Warrenty coverage is something everyone wants and no one wants to use, no matter how easy it is. If you have to use the warrenty coverage, you have a serious problem and almost always a disatisfied customer until it's working again. The only way to win is to not break in the first place, and iPods are known to be among the most reliable products on the market, with an extremely vocal user base.
Zune's going to be expensive too. And MS doesn't have the same kind of public image Apple does. I mean to point out that ask a 1,000 random Americans about MS and Apple and Apple wins the popularity contest every time. I'm sure it's the same in most if not all other countries they're both in.
The only exception I've run into is when I'm in groups of MCSE types who haven't been exposed to Macs in any significat manner. But even they don't think badly of Apple on average, just more highly of MS.
Zune's a wanna be at this point. They won't have a chance unless they seriously loose money for a couple years. iPods are deeply entrenched as the market leaders. Look at the Xbox vs PlayStation battle for an example of how this competition is likely to play out.
And it'd be really hard to belive MS could make something as easy to use as the iPod. Xbox probably qualifies, but that's definately an exception for MS. Ease of use is the biggest factor in usability. And who's going to buy something they barely use?
But to Play Devil's advocate (no pun intended), MS could have highered the right tallent to design and build the Zune and given them enough space to do it their way instead of the classic MS way. They may even have their act together enought to make it Mac Compatible. You heard me right, if that's where the competition is, leave no place for them to regroup. They did it with MS Office, and recently has anything come close to competing with MS Office. Beat them completely or they could make a comeback.
Wm

Good Point Ben: How does this service compare to repair issues with other players.
Mr Author (Chris Howard): iPod or nothing? What about Zune or nothing, Creative or Nothing, or any other MP3 or nothing. They're all trying to achieve vendor lock in. The statistics I've read say DRM music is used by 20% of users or less. The rest of the music is an import away from any MP3 Player.
The real genius of iPod is Efficiency. It's very fast to get it to do what you want when compared with other mp3 players. Large storage and fast FireWire transfers may have launched them to success, but even after USB 2.0 came out on PCs, the iPod was still easier to use by far. More graphical, less mundane. I bought and returned a lot of MP3 Players before paying the high price for an iPod, but have been happy ever since, like the overwhelming majority of iPod users.
Mac users LACK of CHOICE? I have PCs and Macs... When one doesn't suit me I use the other and I usualy use the Mac. Mac, Dell, HP are all choices in the same group. Once you buy one you're locked in until it's time to upgrade, then they're all options again.
Mac Faithful list. Your list doesn't seem to be derived from iPod buyers, nor does it seem to be supported by your points of Apples actually treatment of them, so where'd you get it? You put a list together of mac faithful qualities and they say it sounds like the mac faithful?
Knicks fans: Ask the fans if the Knicks do a good job of training, practicing, and playing... that's more the point. Customer Satisfaction.
Apple consumer satisfaction: You imply that apple's customers aren't the right people to ask whether or not Apple provides a satisfying customer experience? Who else would you ask?
You say Apple customers just take it on the chin because they have no choice. I take it on the chin from Apple because it's no where near as harsh as taking it from Dell, HP, Lenovo, Gateway, or Acer. Ever bought a computer loaded with adware, Windows defaults changed, buggy device drivers, annoying background apps, software that sends info the manufacturer w/o getting permission? Even Apple puts trial software, but it's easy to remove from a Mac. There's less dissatisfaction to be taking on the chin from Apple.
The kind of loyalty you speak of from Mac Users is what every manufacturer wants, but precious few ever get or even deserve.
Wm
P. S. "Choice" is accusing Apple of breaking the law. If that's true then Apple should be held accountable, and if it's false then "Choice" should be held accountable.
"Apple doesn’t allow retailers to handle complaints under warranty (which is their obligation under Fair Trading laws) "

The sneeze is a new angle: I'm sick, I sneeze, you get sick. Who's at fault? Nobody. There are fanatics who blame a sick person for getting them sick. That's life, deal with it. Don't expect an appology for it.
"Hello, I'm a Mac-tard, and I defend Apple when they don't deserve it."
vs.
"Hello, I'm a Mac-tar, and I defend Apple when they don't need it."
Honestly, how many other manufacturers have shipped devices with viruses or spyware preloaded? 25 or so verified cases seems extremely small to be making a public acknolegement for most companies. Let's compair Apples to... Oranges. How much of the response is because we don't expect it from this company? If HP shipped you a printer with a virus on the install CD, would you get bent out of shape?
Most times I've heard of manufacturers including Malware (viruses, trojans, and other bad software) the worst response has been to ignore the issue entirely. Followed by ignoring it publicly and fixing it quietly.
The problem with Apple's response is blame, it's childish.
Admittedly Apple does maintain a "Youthful" image, so a little childishness once in a while is required to maintain that.
I like their youthful spirit and I for one won't take this any more seriously then any other virus scare. No big deal. I'll let they're statement slide too. No big deal in the bigger scheme of things. If they acutally spread a virus to hundreds of Windows PCs that actually caused some damage, it'd be different, but no big deal when you look at what really happened.
I urge everyone to just let it go (And if you can't, then get counciling, learn to smile again).
Wm

Beeblebrox has a point. As a Computer Consultant myself, I can tell you a lot of home users have questions about "how to do something" and are willing to pay a little to get the answer. The mac users are usually more willing to part with the money for a "how" solution, and you can speculate on why that is, but that's how it is.
I've done a lot more PC support than mac, but being a mac user I've seen first hand some weird things. Macs are still Computers. In fact, MS put out some extremely reliable software... MS DOS for instance :-)
vb_baysider has a point too. Mac issues are usually easier to fix. An order of magnatude easier. I've spent hours on support for windows, and back in the day been on the other end of windows support calls. It's way more trouble to fix an average windows problem than an average mac problem. But the average "how to do something" questions are about the same for both (even though mac usually have less steps, I wouldn't call them harder steps {on average} ).
I can really summerize why Windows is harder to deal with than MacOS in a short comment: "Windows Registry vs Mac Preferences folder".
And now for the longer explaination: Many programs that don't even need Registry entries still have them and can fail to work if their registry entries are messed up. Mac Preference files can get messed up too, but all the settings for a program are in the System or User's Preference Folder in a single file with that programs name on it. And Mac programs look for the file and recreate it if it's been deleted.
Sure, in Windows, you can delete "all the settings" in the registry for a program (if you can find them, often dozens of them in different branches of the registry not even completely documented in the support documentation), but some programs, in fact many programs, won't work if you delete some important registry entries. That means reinstall the whole program and if there are still registry entries for that program, when you start the install, it can cause the install to fail and you have to find a way to clean up the registry before you can install the software again. Some of the better manufactures include a forced uninstaller on the software install CD or as a seperate download, but even with those your milage will varry.
Don't get me wrong. There are real world cases where Windows PCs are currently the best solution. As far as that goes, there are some wher Linux is better than a Mac too.
This does all add up to more billable hours on each call, and more customer depencancy. But that's the good side...
The downside is that people are getting less done, working harder to get the same done, or at least dealing with more stress to get it done. As a Patriot, I want to see everyone getting more done and with less stress. I want to live in a strong country where we as a nation push forward as efficiently as possible. Encouraging the use of second rate solutions to make a profit when they fail is immoral.
We should all look carefully at what our motivations are before we give advice because we will find ourselves accountable for that advice later.
Wm

Sydneystephen, you make a lot of sense...
"Viruses have been distributed by all sorts of organisations in the past, on floppy disks, in emails, or in software"
-BUT- When a floppy manufacturer includes a virus, you can be sure they admit fault and declare loudly that you won't find another virus on any of their products ever again.
Apple didn't just sell a device that "COULD" carry a virus; they actually included one.
-AND- having said that, you are still right for pointing out how inportant it is that Apple make it clear it's a WINDOWS VIRUS and cannot affect the iPod itself.
That makes it more understandable how such a Press Release actually got released. That's a far better heat to take than consumers worrying that their iPod could crash from a virus.
------ VOICE OF THE WINDOWS COMMUNITY ------
As for the recurring attitude that because Apple said Windows being virus prone they somehow insulted the windows user community... well, that'd be a Windows-Tard response. They didn't shift the blame to the Windows User, they shifted it to the Windows makers. YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE A WINDOWS DEVELOPER TO BE ABLE TO COMMENT ABOUT THIS, JUST TO BE RIGHTLY INSULTED. If you got the virus, meaning you didn't have anti-virus to protect you, then you were wronged and Apple appologized the best way they could (to make it clear the iPod is just a carrier and "can't get sick").
Apple just pointed out a flaw about Windows that lead to this event. They didn't directly or indirectly imply that Windows Users are idiots (clearly there are a few in every group). And if you feel insulted, then MAYBE you're one of them... {oh, did I say that? Yep, sure did} Go back and read Apple's PR again.
If anything APPLE is echoing the voice of the Windows community on this subject. We all wish Windows was hardier against such problems. {They just said it at an inapropriate time, but as noted, it may be better that way}.
Remember, weather they like it or not, Apple is a member of the Windows Developers Community (in so far as they develope software, drivers, and compatible hardware (including the Mac) for the windows platform).
Wm

We're sorry Windows isn't more hardy against viruses. As you know we aren't the only ones having a hard time keeping our Windows computers virus free. In fact, we're among the best in the industry. But still, we're sorry that our problem has become a problem for some of you. Please contact any one of these Windows Anti-Virus companies and hopefully their solution will actually work for you.
Call that paragraph an experiment. I wanted to see if I could write something better than Apple, but this just doesn't sound like Apple. Anyone else care to try?
Wm

Sounds like Gabe's got an issue with Analogies in general. They're never perfect, they will at best, highlight a perticular angle of an issue.
The idea is to come up with a way to say the same thing a completely different way so that it's clear what you're thinking about.
Analogies that don't seem to "fit" often help too because they highlight what the author of the analogy missed in the article so we can help him or her. The most comon way to help is to rewrite the analogy to add the important missing points, even though the analogy probably still doesn't exactly fit. It's just meant to highlight certain aspects of the issue.
Wm