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Amidst a nationwide security crackdown launched after a suicide bomber killed at least 80 on Thursday at the crowded shrine of Lal Shahbaz Qalandar in Sehwan, Dr Syed Mehdi Raza Shah, the custodian of the shrine, announced Friday that the evening dhamaal would continue as usual after evening prayers.

Gentle Readers :

Do not lose Hope. The Cwapistanis could well emulate India's Multiple Satellites Launch Figure.Cheers

These Sufi shrine bombings could easily be the handiwork of ISI.What ticks me off is that news headlines around the world declare `ISIS takes responsibility`. Now we know what ISIS in Pakistan is. Mostly disgruntled Talibunnies only.

But by blaming ISIS, Pakistan is killing two birds with one stone. One is, we are victims of ISIS onlee and secondly, Taliban is moderate islamists. Considering how Russia is being worked by the pakis to cultivate the Taliban in Afghanistan, any blame on ISIS is good for the pakis.

So its Jamaat ul ahrar faction of Taliban/TTP one day but then the next day all headlines blare ISIS as if arab sunni jihadis are launching these attacks.

all supposedly sufis came with Ghauri into India as his train. Especially the top 5 named below who are revered all over India by people of all religions. The job of sufis was and is subtly to convert the defeated people of India. Indians made them sing qawalis and gave them "praying at their Dargahs" which according to the newest version of Islam is "Shirk"., and thus wajib-ul-qatal in 2017.

1. Chistis of Ajmer, 2. Faridudeen shakaranj (baba sheikh farid) for whom the city of Faridkot is named in Punjab, 3. Jaluludeen Bukhari (Delhi) Jama Masjid Delhi, 4. Shahbaz Qalandar of Sindh, 5. "Hazrat" Nizamudeen of Mehrauli (Delhi). all came into India with around Ghauris attack of India and Bollywood makes them heroes of India!

All Sufis including Bulleh Shah! have just one and only one Goal and that is to reach out to non-muslims subtly and convert them.

Waris Shah (less green sufi) who wrote Heer-Ranjha (parallelizing with Radha-Kishen sort of romance) was jailed by Aurungzeb (more green)., who was roughly around the time in India when Wahabis were almost gaining control in Arabia. They were in contact!

Most of the Sufis are Shias and Suf means "Wool" and "Sufi" means "a person with woolen clothes". These woolen clothes were worn in Iran.

Almost all people of "conquered lands" first start visiting these sufis and became Sufi, then shia and then suni of Barelvi variety (the ones who area allowed to sing and their women only have dupatta) and eventually to be just like Arabians of the Nedj of Central Saudi Arabia (chaar aurtain chalees bache)

SBajwa wrote:all supposedly sufis came with Ghauri into India as his train. Especially the top 5 named below who are revered all over India by people of all religions. The job of sufis was and is subtly to convert the defeated people of India. Indians made them sing qawalis and gave them "praying at their Dargahs" which according to the newest version of Islam is "Shirk"., and thus wajib-ul-qatal in 2017.

SBajwa Ji :

Thank you very much indeed. Regretfully the "INDIAN Constitutional, Democratic, Liberal, Secular, Lovers of the Denizens of the Land of the Pure and the Home of the Terrorists" will always drool over the Nihari & Kebabs along with the Hospitality of the Denizens of the Land of the Pure & the Home of the Terrorists.

This madness has permeated up to the Ranks of the Retired "Punjab" Bureaucrats up to the "Secretary and Chief Secretary" Level.

More than 100 militants killed in intelligence-based operations, claims ISPR

The intelligence agencies are making progress to unearth networks behind the recent terrorism incidents

Four alleged terrorists were killed in the Lower Orakzai tehsil of the Orakzai Agency

Three alleged terrorists were killed during a search and strike operation in the Reggi area of Peshawar.

Four more were killed in Bannu during an exchange of fire.

Six militants were killed in the Khyber Agency.

18 terrorists had been killed in operations in Sindh overnight

Two more militants were killed in a gun battle with police on Sariab Road in Quetta.

Boy! That was fast and swift. Totals to 37. Where are the rest of the 63? I wonder how many of these were innocent civilians and fake encounters?

The Afghan officials were also handed over a list of 76 "most wanted" terrorists by the Pakistan Army... Afghanistan was asked to either take "immediate action" against the named terrorists or hand them over to Pakistan

Will spiral-bound dossiers follow? Would love to hear the Afghan response to this demarche.

More than 100 militants killed in intelligence-based operations, claims ISPR

The intelligence agencies are making progress to unearth networks behind the recent terrorism incidents

Four alleged terrorists were killed in the Lower Orakzai tehsil of the Orakzai Agency

Three alleged terrorists were killed during a search and strike operation in the Reggi area of Peshawar.

Four more were killed in Bannu during an exchange of fire.

Six militants were killed in the Khyber Agency.

18 terrorists had been killed in operations in Sindh overnight

Two more militants were killed in a gun battle with police on Sariab Road in Quetta.

Boy! That was fast and swift. Totals to 37. Where are the rest of the 63? I wonder how many of these were innocent civilians and fake encounters?

The Afghan officials were also handed over a list of 76 "most wanted" terrorists by the Pakistan Army... Afghanistan was asked to either take "immediate action" against the named terrorists or hand them over to Pakistan

Will spiral-bound dossiers follow? Would love to hear the Afghan response to this demarche.

The UAE ambassador to Afghanistan who was injured in khandhahar died just two days back. The Taliban team that came to his janaza from Qatar was detained too. That aside the general understanding was that this was a ISI hit that . Coincidences are rare....terrorism being strategic communication. Especially when this attack was specifically called terrorist and treacherous by the force commander of uae.

Petty criminals being declared as dreaded terrorists and killed. Where for will they find 100 terrorists jumping in front of their guns suddenly. This is for internal consumption in Fakistan. Army needs to manage public opinion for the next coup.

"Why did we not go where he was being held? Qadri did everything for us, and for the love of Islam and we could not even stand by him. People say Islam teaches peace . . . I say Islam teaches us Ghairat (Honor). Who will now stand up?"

Historical Sufis only appear as gateway to anti-Hindu character of Desi Muslims because of the way politics panned out over last 2 centuries. Ground reality till that point was that the Sufis operated in an intra-Hindu world. And there is plenty of supremacist bashing within Hindu sampradayas. Plenty of venom spewed by Gaudiya Vaishnavism against Shaktas, calling various things "lesser Gods" etc. This to me is all under the churn of Dharmic paths.

These are the people that got blown up at Sehwan...(bad sound quality but good visuals)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYFWbYwU81YThey have tilaks on their foreheads, wrap their robes like many monk orders across India. I wonder if they have something to do with Gorakhnath. The babaji at around 3:30 mark gets into a Shiv tandav type bhaav. I mean come on folks, the ordinary person in the artificial construct a la TSP didn't drop from Mars. Lot of defensiveness I'm seeing here about how the residents of TSP deserve what they get for being active or passive participants in the formation of TSP. Do we react this way had it been Hinglaj Mata Mandir or Nankana Sahib getting attacked? In Bangladesh all the Hindus remaining there are the low-caste Namasudra people who had actively aligned themselves with Muslim League in run-up to Partition (which allowed for ML govt in Bengal at the time, which laid foundation for law-and-order breakdown in Kolkata on Direct Action Day, after which Congress was forced into accepting Partition). So then we should also stop caring for Bangladesh Hindus because they too made their beds. But no, we don't operate that way. We responded when the part of Bharat that was occupied in East Bengal cried out for help. It tugged at our heartstrings. People screw up. Every demographic has made moves that one cannot be proud of.

Before this Sehwan Sharif attack there had been a similar magnitude blast in a similar shrine in Balochistan, and folks here on BRF were gleefully saying green-on-green. Balochis weren't even part of TSP formation process and were taken in by zabardasti and are demographically and militarily toothless to do anything about it.

Keeping headcount on TSP's failure at being a nation that provides for its citizens is great. But you and I all know that these sorts of attacks are a success of TSP at the deep state level. This rakshas entity ruling over 20% of Bharat poonyabhoomi would love to eliminate all evidence of Hindu culture if possible, and also proceed from there to consume rest of Bharat...if we cannot provide military aid, at least in our hearts and minds we can find room for these people.

bharotshontan wrote:Ground reality till that point was that the Sufis operated in an intra-Hindu world. And there is plenty of supremacist bashing within Hindu sampradayas. Plenty of venom spewed by Gaudiya Vaishnavism against Shaktas, calling various things "lesser Gods" etc. This to me is all under the churn of Dharmic paths.

Dear bharotshontan, either your civilization is digesting, or being digested. If you can't differentiate one churn from another, then you are doomed.

In Sindh, it was Sufis who engaged most in abductions and forced marriages of Hindu girls. They even proudly published annual statistics of their conquests.

We can express sympathy for Sufis if we first have a whole process in place to impinge on the culture that is effacing them. But we don't, we don't even stand up for Bangladeshi Hindus, Pak Hindus and Sikhs, Buddhists in Ladakh, etc. GharWapasi within India is pathetic. But we respond to international propaganda and resettle Rohingyas, in Jammu of all places. Sufism should have been a zone for our GharWapasi, the way it became under the Sikh Gurus. But today it is the reverse, like it has been for most of its history. With such a process, it doesn't take a genius to tell which way the churn is going. Only an idiot will show up with a bleeding heart.

Interesting that you call Vaishnavas' idea of devata taratamya "venom". Half-baked worldviews like that lack the moving parts of assimilation, viz., involution and evolution.

Last edited by Agnimitra on 17 Feb 2017 22:57, edited 2 times in total.

bharotshontan wrote:. Bharat is ultimately a civilization, and it has outlived and will continue to outlive all nations or states that prop up on it.

Which alternate world do you live in saar ? Must be quite different from the one I live in. What makes you think that any civilisation can survive by following such idiotic strategy and philosophy ?

Well, that was a qualified statement. Bharat cannot outlive TSP/ISIS/Taliban/etc if we let them go unchecked...what is happening right now is not only is Bharat shrinking and shriveling out in Pak/BD, but also within India. Even till the 90s the crowds in Sufi shrines like Ajmer etc were 50-50 Muslim-Hindu. Nowadays the resident IM population is shunning these things. Now we have burqas and ISIS toilet cleaners and twitter handlers coming from hinterlands of south/central India. We are getting ripped to shreds and instead of strategically reacting to live for a better day, we're doing the typical Hindu thing i.e. excommunicate and excommunicate thinking this is self-preservation.

Non-muslim Indians are actually getting more education, more money and their clout is increasing across the world. It is only in India and bollywood that is causing Dhimmitude among Indian non-muslims!

bharotshontan wrote:Ground reality till that point was that the Sufis operated in an intra-Hindu world. And there is plenty of supremacist bashing within Hindu sampradayas. Plenty of venom spewed by Gaudiya Vaishnavism against Shaktas, calling various things "lesser Gods" etc. This to me is all under the churn of Dharmic paths.

Dear bharotshontan, either your civilization is digesting, or being digested. If you can't differentiate one churn from another, then you are doomed.

We can express sympathy for Sufis if we first have a whole process in place to impinge on the culture that is effacing them. But we don't, we don't even stand up for Bangladeshi Hindus, Pak Hindus and Sikhs, Buddhists in Ladakh, etc. GharWapasi within India is pathetic. But we respond to international propaganda and resettle Rohingyas, in Jammu of all places. Sufism should have been a zone for our GharWapasi, the way it became under the Sikh Gurus. But today it is the reverse, like it has been for most of its history. With such a process, it doesn't take a genius to tell which way the churn is going. Only an idiot will show up with a bleeding heart.

Well, we've had 1400 years of interaction with Islam, basically since its inception. I am clearly able to divide our interaction with it into two parts. One, that happened while we contained 25% of world GDP, while we were at the center of the first global economy spanning from Venice to Sumatra across our fertile hinterlands and long coastlines. During this period I'd classify the churn as us ingesting them. The second part is the daylight robbery that spanned the last 200 years. This period is when census was taken, for first time a land peppered with 1000s of little jaatis gets divided into 2 neat mega-groups, which is obviously intentionally done to bring about the devastation that is today eating away at our two wings on either end of Bharatvarsha. Extrapolating the trends from the last 200 years onto the past 1000 years imho is skewed. Bharat has never been this poor ever in all historical time.

We need to sympathize for Bangladeshi Hindus, Pak Hindus and Sikhs, Buddhists in Ladakh, etc. Ghar Wapasi needs to be taken to full gusto in India. We need better strategies also wrt Love Jihad. It can easily be turned into Love Dharmayuddh. Instead of preventing Hindu girls from interacting with Muslims period, better is to put pressure on Muslim agnostic type boys that pursue Hindu girls to convert to Hinduism, and more importantly their children become Hindus.

Interesting that you call Vaishnavas' idea of devata taratamya "venom". Half-baked worldviews like that lack the moving parts of assimilation, viz., involution and evolution.

Not half-baked. Vaishnavas going around saying Christ is Krishna, Allah is Krishna, but to fellow Hindus saying that Durga/Kali/Shakti is demigod, people that pray to Her are looking for material gains etc, like come on!! The venom Vaishnavas spew at the animal-sacrificing traditions in Dharma, where is that towards Islam? At that point it is full on dhimmi mode LOL.

SBajwa wrote:Non-muslim Indians are actually getting more education, more money and their clout is increasing across the world. It is only in India and bollywood that is causing Dhimmitude among Indian non-muslims!

There is something about strength in numbers. KPs, Bongs, West Punjab Sikhs and Hindus, Sindhi Hindus, all had this education/money clout disappear once the barbarian hordes of Muslims around them gained enough critical mass. Maybe I'm just speaking as a WB Hindu, watching the churn day by day. Flying in to CCU and coming outside to see 50% crowd with dead stares in lungis and chappals and beards, enough to give dhoti shivers and bring to memory some dark tv soaps that I probably watched in childhood regarding pogroms in BD. We just need to do better at stopping the excommunication and strategically reinvigorate our digestive power as a civilization.

In 2017 people who have money along with latest toys can easily contain the Jihadi hordes from air!! All you need is a good leadership.Kashmir, Bengal and Kerala are gone because of the Dhimmitude of Bengali and Keraliites. Before Shahjehan-Aurungzeb (died in 1707) Kashmir use to Non-Muslim majority. Jahangir started converting Kashmir!

Bengalis and Keraliites have more faith in Lenin/Stalin/their friendly commie jihadi/etc. than Vivekanand/other sages of India. So! they did it to themselves!

But all these Sufi traditions are Haraam in Islam. Why should we support any Anti-Islamic activity if we are true 'Sick-u-lur'.Infact all these sufi MAzars should be razed and bulldozed like they do in Al-Saud Barbaria.

SBajwa wrote:In 2017 people who have money along with latest toys can easily contain the Jihadi hordes from air!! All you need is a good leadership.Kashmir, Bengal and Kerala are gone because of the Dhimmitude of Bengali and Keraliites. Before Shahjehan-Aurungzeb (died in 1707) Kashmir use to Non-Muslim majority. Jahangir started converting Kashmir!Bengalis and Keraliites have more faith in Lenin/Stalin/their friendly commie jihadi/etc. than Vivekanand/other sages of India. So! they did it to themselves!

I think this time Kaffirs are well aware of circumstances and may take the retaliation to "theo"-logical end.

bharotshontan wrote:Just the other day I was listening to a qawwali from this Sehwan sharif. I like the tabla, I like the videos where they're showing masses of people with diyas doing aarti, the cooking of langar, the holy men looking exactly like sadhu babas. This blast seems to hit home for me. I'm not cynical enough to write this off as green on green, to me it seems an awful lot like green on saffron. Also what is two nation theory in thirty years when TSP as we know it doesn't exist?

Your line of thought is pathetic and very offensive at several levels., none of the qawwali singing masses and qawwali enjoying masses showed up to condemn any of the terrorist event in India. In fact several of them rejoiced.

So now why this holier-than-thou crap from you on our schadenfreude? If the Sharia-premis are killing the sharia-deniers in their midst., so what? The sharia-deniers deserve to get it. They never raised even their pinkies against the sharia-premis.

More green on green was predicted in Bakistan and the faster it goes down that spiral and more deeper it goes it is better for human civilization. It should spread to Barbaria as well.

And the two nation theory is even more valid. The dregs of the society - other wise known as sharia-premis and their bleeding heart supporters need to be corralled away from human civilization. And anybody who wants to be part of those dregs or even have sympathy for them are welcome to live among them.

So the people with Pak passports are victims, even if they root for this entity.

Nah., all the bakis with bassborts are sharia-lovers and hindu-haters. If you have a baki bassbort., you are already an elite - a closet jehadi - not a victim but a wily perpetrator - since you use foot soldiers to achieve your own narrow end. The only way baki with a bassbort can show himself/herself as a non-jehadi is to completely repudiate sharia, repudiate large portions of quran, repudiate their mullahs and also accept the fact that theirs is not a civilization but a barbaric cult and embrace the civilizational ethos of indic religions. In short., do a ghar-wapsi.

KARACHI: Pakistan’s current account deficit widened by 90% in the first seven months (Jul-Jan) of 2016-17, standing at $4.72 billion compared with $2.48 billion in the same period of the previous year, according to data released by the State Bank of Pakistan (SBP) on Friday.

bharotshontan wrote:Well, we've had 1400 years of interaction with Islam, basically since its inception. I am clearly able to divide our interaction with it into two parts. One, that happened while we contained 25% of world GDP, while we were at the center of the first global economy spanning from Venice to Sumatra across our fertile hinterlands and long coastlines. During this period I'd classify the churn as us ingesting them. The second part is the daylight robbery that spanned the last 200 years. ...Extrapolating the trends from the last 200 years onto the past 1000 years imho is skewed. Bharat has never been this poor ever in all historical time.

bharotshontan ji, you are using the old and tried Nehruvian method of demonizing the British to exonerate the nightmare of Islamic jihad in India, and even blame the current menace as a relatively new phenomenon begun under British social engineering. It is beyond ridiculous for you to suggest that the first 600+ years of Islamic occupation and colonialism was a case of "us ingesting them".

Are you saying that the condition of the countryside was a lot better under 600+ years of Islamic rule than it was under the British? You appear to be Bengali, so let's take an example from there: Jahangir writes that in Sylhet, Hindu peasants were so poor that they could not afford to pay the full jiziya - so in lieu of the jiziya tax they were selling their own sons as slaves to the Islamic tax collector, to be turned into eunuchs and sold as harem-supervisors (and also available as catamites) across the country. The castration was done using a wooden device to crush testicles. 1 in 8 such boys survived the "operation" to live happily ever after as a eunuch well taken care of - after also converting to Islam, of course. Other sources confirm this and say it had become widespread across north India. Shah Jehan's "kindness" is in his suggestion to reduce the castration business and let them procreate after converting to Islam, in order to increase the Muslim population. This is your idea of "us ingesting them"?? You don't think Islamic rule was "daylight robbery"?? Britain isn't the only country whose national museums are filled with Indian treasure. Go check Iran and the Ottoman Turks.

Only good pedophile worshiper is a dead one. That is the one and final cardinal rule. Frankly the display of horror and sympathy I see on paki newspapers from so called Indians is sickening. I wish full a full fledged blood bath of muslims to wash the the sins of pedophile worshipers from the vedic lands.

bharotshontan wrote:Just the other day I was listening to a qawwali from this Sehwan sharif. I like the tabla, I like the videos where they're showing masses of people with diyas doing aarti, the cooking of langar, the holy men looking exactly like sadhu babas. This blast seems to hit home for me. I'm not cynical enough to write this off as green on green, to me it seems an awful lot like green on saffron. Also what is two nation theory in thirty years when TSP as we know it doesn't exist?

Your line of thought is pathetic and very offensive at several levels., none of the qawwali singing masses and qawwali enjoying masses showed up to condemn any of the terrorist event in India. In fact several of them rejoiced.

So now why this holier-than-thou crap from you on our schadenfreude? If the Sharia-premis are killing the sharia-deniers in their midst., so what? The sharia-deniers deserve to get it. They never raised even their pinkies against the sharia-premis.

More green on green was predicted in Bakistan and the faster it goes down that spiral and more deeper it goes it is better for human civilization. It should spread to Barbaria as well.

And the two nation theory is even more valid. The dregs of the society - other wise known as sharia-premis and their bleeding heart supporters need to be corralled away from human civilization. And anybody who wants to be part of those dregs or even have sympathy for them are welcome to live among them.

It is better to fight the battle in TSP land to save the bit of Bharatiyata they have over there, instead of just letting go of that ground and focus inward. All that does is open up the peacefuls within us to renewed assault on their own Indianness and to extract them from those roots. If 2-nation theory was that much truthful, then we should have put our money where our mouth is and truly tried to achieve a Muslim-mukt Bharat on August 15th 1947. Except all that happened was that the Muslims made sure the lands they got as Pakistan became kafir-mukt, while the kafirs throughout India sat on our butts under the premise "our Muslims aren't that bad, unlogon ka jhagra". Only place in India that became Muslim-mukt was East Punjab. Not even West Bengal and Assam were allowed to undergo the catharsis that Partition at least allowed for Punjab. Bengalis were castrated from when Gandhi usurped Bose with Nehru, and then to rub salt in the wounds began fasting in Kolkata with Suhrawardy which essentially prevented 2-way population exchange in Bengal. And further whatever was indeed achieved was undone by Nehru-Liaquat pact. Plus stepson treatment given to Assam and rest of NE for decades, allowing them to overnight turn into 30-40% peaceful via illegal migration.

It is laughable nowadays how Muslim communal elements are showing muscle power throughout length and breadth of India, including in places like Karnataka, Maharashtra, Tamil Nadu, Andhra, etc. Claiming 2-nation theory valid selectively for different parts of Bharat only means that one day your part of Bharat will also be subjected to that. Either apply it uniformly across, or fight it tooth and nail. India-Pak partition is the only nation that allowed for a breakup without a fight. To this day, PRC doesn't recognize Taiwan, nor vice-versa. NoKo doesn't recognize SoKo and vice-versa. Yet we found it in our great wisdom to just say begone with Pak, while at the same time doing nothing about the internal peaceful factor which has once again blossomed into the same scenario that India faced in 1930s/40s.

It is not holier-than-thou schaudenfraude. It is realpolitik, and the policies of the Hindu left that you accuse me of belonging to, and the Hindu reactionary like yourself, are both self-defeating. Forget about spreading to Barbaria. Why should it even spread in TSP land, which is ours to begin with? And then from there inevitably it spreads into India as well. If the world's largest septic tank is next door from you, it is you who has the most to lose. It is in our interest to try clean their house as much as possible...

Bheeshma wrote:Only good pedophile worshiper is a dead one. That is the one and final cardinal rule. Frankly the display of horror and sympathy I see on paki newspapers from so called Indians is sickening. I wish full a full fledged blood bath of muslims to wash the the sins of pedophile worshipers from the vedic lands.

bharotshontan wrote:Well, we've had 1400 years of interaction with Islam, basically since its inception. I am clearly able to divide our interaction with it into two parts. One, that happened while we contained 25% of world GDP, while we were at the center of the first global economy spanning from Venice to Sumatra across our fertile hinterlands and long coastlines. During this period I'd classify the churn as us ingesting them. The second part is the daylight robbery that spanned the last 200 years. ...Extrapolating the trends from the last 200 years onto the past 1000 years imho is skewed. Bharat has never been this poor ever in all historical time.

bharotshontan ji, you are using the old and tried Nehruvian method of demonizing the British to exonerate the nightmare of Islamic jihad in India, and even blame the current menace as a relatively new phenomenon begun under British social engineering. It is beyond ridiculous for you to suggest that the first 600+ years of Islamic occupation and colonialism was a case of "us ingesting them".

Are you saying that the condition of the countryside was a lot better under 600+ years of Islamic rule than it was under the British? You appear to be Bengali, so let's take an example from there: Jahangir writes that in Sylhet, Hindu peasants were so poor that they could not afford to pay the full jiziya - so in lieu of the jiziya tax they were selling their own sons as slaves to the Islamic tax collector, to be turned into eunuchs and sold as harem-supervisors (and also available as catamites) across the country. The castration was done using a wooden device to crush testicles. 1 in 8 such boys survived the "operation" to live happily ever after as a eunuch well taken care of - after also converting to Islam, of course. Other sources confirm this and say it had become widespread across north India. Shah Jehan's "kindness" is in his suggestion to reduce the castration business and let them procreate after converting to Islam, in order to increase the Muslim population. This is your idea of "us ingesting them"?? You don't think Islamic rule was "daylight robbery"?? Britain isn't the only country whose national museums are filled with Indian treasure. Go check Iran and the Ottoman Turks.

No, I'm not making any such claims, nor trying to exonerate Islamic jihad on India. But whatever it was got worsened exponentially over the British period. At least the entire Hindu community wasn't driven to 0% in Sylhet, or capable of being driven to such a point. It is daylight robbery to reduce an economy from 25% global share to 3% over 150 years. Desert cult wasn't at that level of sophistication obviously. Anyway, I've mentioned this earlier, but Indian dealings with Central Asians in pre-Islamic era was also nothing great. Who is to say the likes of Kanishka or the Hunas or Sakas or Kambojas were not the same way? The Indian narrative till today didn't even differentiate these Central Asians on their religious identity. They just called them as mleccha rajas and saw it as a doomsday scenario where our holy land was under such rulership.

Honestly consider the Islamic jihad period minus the British usurpation and daylight robbery of world's richest economy. Marathas, Sikhs etc were well on their way towards doing reconquest, the mlecchas were getting their mleccha-ness out of their system. With Islam as their religion, it took them longer to start shedding it, but the Dara Shikoh types were starting to pop up and more would have come through.

Anyway, I think a number has been done on our collective entity as a people, as a civilization, in the last 1000 years, culminating exponentially in the last 200. But its good to be intelligent and understand that eventually we need to absorb all these pieces that broke off. If you think my ronadhona over a Sufi shrine getting blown up and seeing it as a green-on-saffron violence is dhimmitude and result of Stockholm syndrome, I can say the same for those that are excommunicating 35-40% of Indian subcontinent mass of people as a single category green as also mentally shell-shocked. The truth is somewhere in between. I've nowhere projected any sort of Hindu-Muslim kumbayah in any of my writings here. I called out what I saw as an unhealthy symptom of the troubled past India has had wrt Islamic jihad+colonialism(partition). We would react sadly if Nankana Sahib or Hinglaj Mataji Mandir or a Bangladeshi Durga Puja had a similar attack, although you can find plenty of Hindu/Sikh collaborators and enablers of partition I'm sure. So drawing the line at a festival that is nominally categorized as Hindu and then expressing glee at a shrine that is nominally categorized as Muslim, is something I see as giving in to the social engineering works that did the lasting damage on our collective.

Simple thing is we Hindus shot ourselves in the foot when we did not go with full transfer of population and let brown sahibs like Nehru & Gandhi to dictate terms in 1947. Nowhere in the last 500 years have Hindus & Muslims eaten together or lived together anywhere in India. What Jinnah said was right - we are two nations with different cultures, histories, stories & heros/villain. It is never going to change.

Only hope is that Hindus start consolidating across India in another 10-15 years when Muslims in India, as per their habit, mess with the Hindus & punch above their weight. But god knows the level of dhimmitude amongst us now and whether that will happen or not.

Another partition is no longer a hypothetical scenario but a very real possibility in 50 years.

bharotshontan No, I'm not making any such claims, nor trying to exonerate Islamic jihad on India. But whatever it was got worsened exponentially over the British period.

Totally wrong! It was under British that non-muslims under Arya Samaj and Akali movements started asserting their rights and started "Shuddhikarn". under mughals holi/diwali/etc were banned (or non-muslims had to pay money). Many Sikh peaceful leaders like Bhai Mani Singh (Lahore under later day mughals after Aurungzeb) were murdered for celebrating Diwali without paying money.

"in 1737 ca., Bhai Mani Singh asked to Governor of Lahore, Zakaria Khan, for permission to hold the Diwali festival at the Harmandir Sahib. The permission was granted for a tribute of Rs. 5,000. He hoped that he would be able to pay the sum out of the offerings to be made by the Sikhs who were invited to come. He issued initiations to the Sikhs of all places. The Governor had different intentions and he sent secret orders to his forces to make a surprise attack on the Sikhs during the festival. Bhai Mani Singh came to know of this plan and sent messages to tell the Sikhs not to come. The Sikhs that did come had to leave because of the presence of an unnecessary big military force and suspicious movement of the officers. Thus no money could be collected or paid to the government and Bhai Mani Singh was ordered to be executed."

When Marathas were fighting Nadir Shah, Abdali at north. British were fighting French, Dutch, Portuguese, etc power that had sorrounded India to make money!! British won due to their Navy and local allies (Bengal, Madras and Bombay presidencies were established).

Chandragupta wrote:Simple thing is we Hindus shot ourselves in the foot when we did not go with full transfer of population and let brown sahibs like Nehru & Gandhi to dictate terms in 1947. Nowhere in the last 500 years have Hindus & Muslims eaten together or lived together anywhere in India. What Jinnah said was right - we are two nations with different cultures, histories, stories & heros/villain. It is never going to change.

Only hope is that Hindus start consolidating across India in another 10-15 years when Muslims in India, as per their habit, mess with the Hindus & punch above their weight. But god knows the level of dhimmitude amongst us now and whether that will happen or not.

Another partition is no longer a hypothetical scenario but a very real possibility in 50 years.

Yea, I'm leaning more towards the latter. We will part with more lands to become kafir-mukt, but continue holding on to our remainder 10-25% peaceful minorities, to let them blossom into something larger another 50 years down the road.

I wonder if the folks that have brainstormed Ghar Wapsi, can they reach out to some other group perhaps? Methinks each society and civilization always has a fifth column, no matter what. The question is not about obliterating that identity, but managing it well. We've lost out on the latter, and definitely not capable of the former. But what about, say, reach out to the Bahai Faith and have them go on conversion overdrive in Indian Muslim mohallas with full security protection cover, and make this a part of the Indian deep-state policy? Bahais are a post-Islamic civilized faith, and they do indeed have a tradition of proselytizing. What if half the IM population could be converted to Bahais? It would probably be a simpler switch than to Hinduism via Ghar Wapsi because the Bahais do use the Quran.

bharotshontan wrote:No, I'm not making any such claims, nor trying to exonerate Islamic jihad on India. But whatever it was got worsened exponentially over the British period. [...] Desert cult wasn't at that level of sophistication obviously. Anyway, I've mentioned this earlier, but Indian dealings with Central Asians in pre-Islamic era was also nothing great. Who is to say the likes of Kanishka or the Hunas or Sakas or Kambojas were not the same way?

bharotshontan, you're all over the place, blowing smoke to somehow obliterate any negative contrast Islamic colonialism had in our history.

The fact that Islam made such massive gains even without the technological sophistication of the British only highlights the merciless and relentless nature of their jihad, executed clinically at every level - military, economic, demographic, cultural and spiritual. To commit holocausts with swords not bombs only highlights the savagery involved at the street level.

Pre-Islamic invaders like Kanishka were an example of "us ingesting them" - not Islamics. You pretend you cannot tell the difference, and want to conflate one with the other and suggest "no difference" - just like you tried with the Brits. Even in ingesting the Kanishkas, the Indics first defined them clearly as mlechha, and then proceeded to assimilate - partly by military force and partly by cultural wizardry. How much more necessary this clarity of definition and historical perspective is w.r.t. Islamics.

Your repeated attempts to over-demonize pre- and post-Islamic invaders in order to soften the contours of the nightmare that was Islamic rule is rather striking.

The Pakistan Army on Friday night reportedly attacked suspected militant hideouts in Afghanistan

The army attacked the alleged training camp of Jamaat-ul-Ahrar located in Afghanistan near the Pak-Afghan border and reportedly destroyed the compound and four other hideouts of suspected terrorists

The training camp of Jamaat-ul-Ahrar deputy commander Adil Bacha was reportedly destroyed in the attack and suspected militants were also killed, DawnNews reported quoting sources, however, these claims could not be independently verified