fences and neighbors...sheesh.

simgirlAugust 25, 2003

I'll apologize in advance if I've mis-posted and for the fact that this is a long post.

We live in a new, neo-traditional development--with an HOA--that is designed and styled after old-fashioned towns. Our particular house is more of a cottage-y style; all homes are fairly close to neighbors' in an effort to foster closer relationships. Recently, we put up a picket fence in the front of the house. It's a standard, dog-ear picket such that you think of Tom Sawyer whitewashing. Nothing fancy or extreme about it in any way at all. Approval sailed through HOA no problem; we had it permitted by the county also. Double and triple checked the survey, plats, line-drawings, etc. Neighbors had to sign before we applied for permit; that was also no problem, except neighbors on one side indicated they "don't like" picket fences. There have been many fences installed recently; they are sprouting all over our neighborhood and people seem to like them well enough. Well, Neighbors-Who-Objected-To-Style (NWOTS) called us at 10 pm the night our posts had been cemented. They indicated they'd like us to move the post that was closest to the boundary between our properties. Fence is NOT on the boundary--it's inside it, on our side, by at least 6-8". The reason given for objection was that they didn't like looking at it and they felt it would be difficult with the lawnmower. Our fence does not continue back to the house, just runs across front (this was a concession on our part to minimize impact on the NWOTS--we eliminated that part w/o telling them we'd do so); we have animals and wanted an enclosed fence. We promised to speak to our fence guy the next day about options (but did NOT promise to move it.)

Well, next day comes, fence guy says he'll move it if we want, but it's inside the line and it lines up with our back fence(and then he spends the next 45 minutes re-measuring and re-checking against boundary markers, lines, etc.) Measures between nearest obstruction on NWOTS lot (a tree) and post, and comes up with 42", more than enough to put a push mower through. Points out that to move the fence, we'd need to move it about a foot or more due to concrete already set, etc (so fence would be about 2' shy of property line, and 1' shy of back fence ending, so they wouldn't line up visually.) But, reiterates that he'll move it if we choose that route. Fence guy also promises to wait on that section of fence until NWOTS H comes home and we can speak to him about limitations. Around 5:30 that day, the section was in. Fence guy told me that NWOTS H had been there and spoken to him about not moving the post; he offered some very detailed bits of conversation that made me certain he had actually spoken to NWOTS H. NWOTS H also, at that point, apparently tried to get fence guy to change the post caps we had chosen, since NWOTS H objects to post cap style, too(!) I don't know exactly what was said--NWOTS H never spoke to us (see below) after that.

Well, here's the disaster. It's been three and a half weeks since this incident. They haven't spoken to us since (a conversation). NWOTS H isn't speaking to us--and he's making quite a display of (not) doing so. Can't even be bothered to return a wave if we see them outside, in the store, whatever. More particularly, it seems aimed at me (for some reason, this became "my" fence in NWOTS' minds.)

Hubby went over to their house yesterday to share some of the bounty of our garden and while SIL was very friendly, NWOTS were less than terrific to him; NWOTS H didn't say a single word to my DH while he was in the house giving them fresh-grown veggies. Other neighbors have literally stopped us on the street and made a point of telling us how nice the fence looks--neighbors from all over the 'hood. The fence is NOT on NWOTS' property; it doesn't run back to the house, so it doesn't make their lives difficult. (That said, they do a lot of gardening and have put in a side flowerbed that runs to within 2" of the property line on their side, but much further back from the fence.) Can it possibly be that the big "issue" here is the fact that we put up a picket fence and he's so upset about LOOKING at it that he won't speak to us until--I don't know--whenever he thaws out? I've half a mind at this point to just run it back to the house, since it's already approved and would be more usable for our purposes that way anyhow. If our relationship with NWOTS is going to be so icy, why shouldn't we have what we originally wanted anyhow? Ideas, anyone?

Its your property, you went out of your way to make sure it wouldnt affect his property (mowing the lawn), and you shared some veggies from the garden... What more could you do? Some people are just jerks. Get past the fact that you wont be buddy buddy with these neighbors (but dont say anything bad to the other neighbors about it), and put the rest of your fence up.

If I had neighbors like that I'd put up the 6' stockage "neighbor-hater" fence so I wouldnt have to see them or their dirty looks...

Put up the fence if you can. Stop trying to please these people. They are just weenies. I know - I live next to a neighbor just like yours.
They kept encroaching more and more onto my property to a tune of about ten feet finally. We talked and talked about their problem for years with them. They just got totally offended that we would even say anything to them.
We put a split rail now. Best thing we ever did. Keeps him in his place. Remember the old adage: good fences make good neighbors. Just as long as your permits and surveys are correct. just do it.
People like this are just looking for trouble, if it wasn't this fence issue, you had better believe that years down the line they would find something else to pick on. They are just that way - malcontents. Accept it, soon they will turn their picky ways onto someone else once they realize they cannot affect you.

Thanks for the encouraging words, guys. We were beginning to feel like the neighborhood pariahs around here. I originally posted because I was honestly wondering if we'd missed some angle (other than NWOTS are just goofy weenies); it just seems so ridiculous in a neo-traditional development to object to a picket fence. Especially on a cottage-style house. But I guess it should have been a warning when he objected to neighbors-across-the-street's picket fence by saying "why landscape your front yard if no one can see it because of the ugly fence?" LOL!

The NWOTS will only be happy if they can attend your funeral - some people are like that.

If you have permission, extend the fence so you can use your yard as you wish. They have plenty of room to mow, it's got all the proper permits ... go for it.

I have one neighborhood man who absolutely DETESTS my paint color choices ... he never fails to gripe about it ot anyone he can corral, and it's been over a year since I painted. I don't care: I like it, it's legal and he's outof line.

Does your neighbor object to the purple or the yellow or both together? IMHO it's cheerful looking. Block walls can be so dreary.

Thanks to you and Alex for providing a reality check. It's difficult to not become somewhat paranoid when NWOTS H is outside (as he was last night) with a group of other neighbors pointing at the fence and talking for 1/2 hour. I have to keep reminding myself that we did everything we were supposed to legally, and we double- and triple- checked everything against the surveys and plans.

If we do put in the fence back to the house, they WILL have an issue with mowing; they won't be able to put a mower through due to their flowerbed. But it would be nice to have the yard enclosed, I do have to say.

I'd extend the fence and make him move his flower bed for mowing purposes. Nobody told him to put it there. Give him something to really stew about. Secondly, the next time I saw him outside pointing at the fence and talking to the neighbors I'd go out and join the group. I'd come in saying, "Are ya'll admiring the fence? We love it. Don't you?" Don't hide; you've done nothing wrong. In fact, be the aggressor. Engage some of the neighbors on your own and have an outside conversation and make it clear to whoever is watching that the conversation is about the NWOTS. Make them the ones to suffer from paranoia. Continue to smile and wave even if you don't get a response. It'll drive them crazy. I speak from experience. Every neighborhood has a "thorn". Hang in there.

Well, school has started this week, and reading this post makes me think you need the advice we have all given our children as they encounter fellow classmates such as your neighbor. If he is not nice, and if you have done everything to be nice and still maintain your rights as an individual, then he is not the kind of person whom you want as a friend. Some people are just that way. I agree, build your fence, wave and be cheery. As Mark Twain advised, "Always do your best to succeed. Your friends will be proud of you, and it will drive your enemies crazy." Not his exact words, but close.

Ok everyone point(s) well made. Neighbor is a weenie, we should soldier on as we've done so far, waving and smiling as we are completely ignored; ignore the numerous other slights and barbs slung our way. Further, we should ignore NWOTS temper tantrum (somewhat tough, due to the "foster relationships" design of the neighborhood.) And we're clearly in the right with our fence's placement at the moment. We could potentially put the fence back to the house and install a gate for our access; this would definitely inflame things further and probably ruin whatever relationship we (may still) have with the rest of NWOTS H's family (wife, kids, in-laws.) But it would do no worse to our current relationship with the family patriarch. And it might teach him a lesson about getting along.

In any case, if we don't go ahead with the fence, I'm thinking some nice crabapple, plum, or cherry trees close to the property line, right up against their flowerbeds and porch area. It doesn't solve the animal containment issue, but it sure would inhibit their view of the pond just beyond our house.

We had some folks like that in our old neighborhood. They are nothing but trouble. Believe me, the BEST thing you could possibly do for your sanitu is finish the fence. he can move his flowerbed if he does not want to "mow" with a trimmer. Finish that fence! He is just going to get meaner and nastier. You have bent over backwards to make them happy, and they are treating you as though you peed in their pool! Some poeple are just plain mean. Finish your fence and they will continue to be mean and nasty. Don't finish and they will continue to be mean and nasty AND feel that they won on at least a few points and that will encourage them to keep being nasty to get what they want.

Oh, lord. And we wonder why the world is such a mess? I think your NWOTS need therapy--or perhaps help from the people who inundate my e-mail's inbox--I think HE msut have a small "ahem". (and SHE'S cranky because of it!) At least that's what I always assume when people start behaving this way. Build your fence...and share my analysis with DH. He'll get a chuckle!

your neighbor is a baby. maybe one day he'll find this thread and realize just that.

my neighbor acts the same way as yours but threatened to kill my dog. we feel like we have to be nice to him to keep our pets safe. however, that hasn't stopped us from putting up fences (on our property bordering his) with the ugly side facing his yard.

he also didn't pay for his half of the fence (even though we know he wanted it installed) so we don't clean/stain/seal the side facing his yard either.

had he been nice, perhaps we would have installed a "neighbor friendly" fence and offered to maintain both sides. but, he's not worth it.

First of all I "hate" HOA's or whatever associations there are that tell you what you can and can't do on your own property. Would even give a first thought to living in one. I can't understand how they ever got started in the first place...But I could write an entire post on that subject...

I would go ahead and do the fence the way you wanted it in the first place. If they are going to be icy neighbors no matter what. Go for it. You went through all the right channels. And you tried to please.

You know the old saying You can please all of the people some of the time..some all and .....ect..

Don't feel guilty...

LOL..start a petition and break the HOA

patti (please excuse me...I have an authority problem.always have. all 58 years )

Oh my Lord, do what you need to do and forget about this guy. Sure, wave, grin, whatever, but don't wring your hands for a moment over this.

I cannot believe that he didn't like your newel post? Then plant a tree, dude! @@

I have to tell you that throughout my life, I've had several "interesting" neighbors. You wouldn't believe the nightmare family that used to live next door to my mother. Suffice to say, he has no clue what a 'bad neighbor' is...And that is certainly not someone who is improving their property.

If he doesn't like your fence, he doesn't have to look. If he's really lucky, you won't paint it neon purple. ;)

Snmom40, LOL! Due to HOA, our choices are white wood or black metal. It's really kind of annoying, but it does provide visual continuity and it makes the fences "disappear" when you are looking at them from the street at a distance, since they all look the same. That's why it is so silly that our neighbor got so worked up about this all. It's not as if it's any different from the fences ALL around us.

On another note, the NWOTS are now planning to build half a fence in their back yard. Note the way I said that: yes, HALF a fence. They will be putting 6' fencing from our 6' fence to their house and then our fence to their garage in back (completing one side of the back yard) this summer. But not the other side. Now, I have to say, that WILL look odd--especially since they plan to have a gate in this fence (going toward the front of the house.) They have no plans to fence the other side of their back yard, and will never fence their front yard. Obviously, it's their house (and their yard) but it seems pointless to me. Not for privacy--if it were, they'd fence both sides. Not for looks--why do it at all if you hate fences? Not for security--once again, why fence only part of your yard and leave the other half completely wide open to the other neighbors' yard (esp. since we already have a fence and they don't even have to see us in the back yard)? I'm sure they see it as spiteful in some way--I'm half-tempted to sic the HOA on them (they won't get approval, they haven't for anything they've done in their yard) but probably won't--it's not worth it to me.

Klmkim wrote: They are just that way - malcontents. Accept it, soon they will turn their picky ways onto someone else once they realize they cannot affect you.

That is so true. I live across the street (only for another few weeks, yeah!!!) from the worst malcontent in town! Your neighbor will move on to someone and something else whether they affect you or not. Before long no one in your HOA will have any use for these guys, trust me. Unfortunately you have to live next door to them :( Put up your darn fence the way you want it!!! Don't give in to these people. Nothing you can do will satisfy them anyway.

Simgirl wrote: It's difficult to not become somewhat paranoid when NWOTS H is outside (as he was last night) with a group of other neighbors pointing at the fence and talking for 1/2 hour

Heck, our neighbors daughter had birthday party last night and didn't invite our daughter (they use to be good friends) but of course invited another neighbor who made a point of telling our 12 year old daughter about the party. I absolutely cannot wait to move away from these people. They don't wave, they talk about us to anyone who will listen (in a small town the talk comes back pretty quickly), etc... but that's o.k. Everyone knows she's a
_itch. You're right, it's hard to not be paranoid, but a nice high fence will help!!!

Put up your fence the way YOU WANT IT. Do it for the rest of us, we'll be vicariously pleased!!! Do it for yourself because if this neighbor thinks he can BULLY (and that's what he is, a bully) you an inch, then next it will be a mile!!!

We're moving into a HOA, our first, but we're moving into an unpopulated area. We'll be the first in that section and I'm so glad to not have any next door neighbors.!! In fact we bought two lots so we can have more buffer room for when anyone else buys there. I want to live in a HOA for several reasons, #1 being so that what has happened at my present location doesn't happen again---people moving in who lower my resale ability and lower home values. I mean, how many people want to have neighbors who party, outside, to all hours of the night and clutter the street with the cars of their closest 50 friends, and who talk louder and louder with every swig from the can so that my daughter is learning new words when she's outside?? And before you suggest I call the law enforcement officials, let me say that would be a joke.

As the song to the old tv show the "Jeffersons" goes, we're "moving on out"----hurrah, hurrah, hurrah!!!!

Get the rest of your fence in quickly, before they follow through with their (stated) plan. Then at least you will have something attractive to look at. Keep in mind, too, that these weenie-type neighbors will say lots of things (to get their neighbors going?) but don't always do them.

Don't invest a lot of energy into these people (positive or negative). It will not pay off, and you will likely find it only hurts you. Smile and wave if you like - perhaps because you think it might irritate him! Be firm and fair, but do not make concessions with an unreasonable person.

We have a neighbor who similarly weenie-like, but not quite so bad... DH likes to keep him on his toes by casually mentioning that he is thinking of doing this or that which he knows will irritate the weenie, but which would be "within bounds", so that he has a card to play when negotiating. But in general, I just try not to pay much attention to the guy.

You mentioned that several other neighbors made a *point* of stopping to say that they liked your fence, and I can't help but think they were motivated at least partly by their prior knowledge of and distaste for your weenie neighbor there, and what he thought about it. With an attitude like that, I am sure you are not the only person not in his fan club.

Maybe even better....maybe bad neighbors have moved.....Any good news for us?

LOL...when I started reading this today I thought to myself..I've read something like this before...Was I ever surprised to find I had posted on it last November....lol...the short term is gone...and I think the long term is right behind it.

why do these people think they have any right to give their opinion on what is put on YOUR property? If they don't want to look at your fence, look out a different window. DUH! Tell 'em to cram it, finish the fence.

Ok, folks, it's been nearly a year since our fence saga started, and we are *still* hearing and seeing results from it. Grr. We never did add in the "finishing" piece on the side property line in front (due to my DH's wishes to keep it easier to mow and such, mostly.) I still wish we did. However, NWOTS are now at least somewhat civil to us. I guess they figure the fence isn't going anywhere. They have continued to maintain that they will put in the "half a fence" at some point (and I *will* complain to the HOA--anonymously--if they do that.) I did get my big chance to jab at them, though, through some other neighbors. They are very good friends with "the Smiths." The "Smiths" were at our house, our dogs were outside, and they happened to remark that it would be better with the dogs to finish the side part of the fence. We made it quite clear that the reason we didn't do so was the NWOTS--and only the NWOTS--and our desire to keep things civil and friendly; we also thought it was a safety and convenience issue with the dogs. The "Smiths" didn't have a response to that at all. So, I'm sure it at least made THEM think about things a bit, and I'm sure they spoke to some other neighbors about it, too.

There is something to the argument for adding in the side fence; there is also something to keeping the peace with NWOTS. Their house is 10' (yes, 10 feet) from ours. If we lived on your average cul-de-sac in average suburbia, it would be a heck of a lot easier to say "shove it" and just do as we pleased. But there are times when we will need their cooperation, no doubt about it--simply due to practicalities of living in the type of development we are in. We can't tell our HOA to go away; that's just reality, and frankly, it's a pretty good one. But we can always hope that our crazy neighbors move away...soon!!! LOL.

This is an "old" link, but I wanted to put in my 2 cents worth...when we moved in our yard was fenced but not on the property lines. The neighbors were using our outside the fence property to access the lake we live on. We first put up trees on the property line to discourage crossing over the property and also as a getting used to period for when we would eventually move the fence to the property lilne. We moved the fence about a year after we moved in and you would think we had committed a crime. Our neighbor called on the phone ranting and raving (a real female bully if you ask me) and told me how we had ruined the neighborhood, everybody hated us, etc.... Six years later we are friends with everyone except the two neighbors who used our property to access the lake. Mind you they can still access the lake, its' just a little more difficult e.g., over tree roots vs. grass. We will never be sorry we moved the fence. We are cordial to each other but will never be friends. What a shame for all of us....

My Father is a surveyor, and I've seen LOTS of severe nastyness over fence and property line issues over the years. We surveyed property lines under police protection more than once after being threatened by owners.

I also have to add my story. We replaced an existing split rail fence (inside our property line) with a top of the line privacy wood fence due to a hot tub we installed on a sunroom. We went to our HOA committee and had both neighbor's signatures on each side saying we gave them a copy of the plans. On the day of the installation, the neighbors behind us called the cops to say we were stealing their fence. Later that night the man came over and banged at our door and shook his fist. A month later he sued us in small claims court for stealing his fence. We won but it was a headache. He then sued us in circuit court and we had to get a lawyer and have over 2000 points shot or surveyed on our fence. We were in the right and won again, but it cost us $7500 in fees and lost time at work besides both of us getting ulcers. The judge told the man not to crowd the courts up with such a ridiculous charge! Our outcome to this story is to always have a survey done before hand. We had rebar in place which was evident, but that does not hold up in court. It had to be re-surveyed.

ALWAYS - get a survey done before you put up a fence. We did - just to shut our neighbor up - even though our property was marked off only a few years early. We wanted to verify before the fence was put up and we found issues. Although we expected none, we live next door to a neighbor we do not trust, thus the reason for the fence in the first place. It was only $200 - worth every penny. Don't cheap out.

I HATE my neighbors new ugly chain link fence. And the old rotted fence that rests on part of it. But it's on their lot, so I wouldn't ever say a thing to them, they can do what they want. Of course the will have to understand when I install my "screen" landscaping and trellis next year, to cover my view of that fence. It goes both ways, especially in the wilds of no HOA-land! :) I say esp. if you have animals to put the whole thing up. He can't be worse than he is. If he can't be grown up about it and speak to you directly about what his beef is, it is obviously his problem, not yours. You have his signature, so go ahead.

After the home next door was sold, and the new owners had been in for 3-4 weeks, the man came out one day with a measuring tape and some stakes. (We had already met, and he and his wife were very nice people!) I asked him what he had in mind. he said he was going to put up either some hedges, or a nice picket fence! Now, his yard abuts mine--no dividing line, or fence, nor bushes, been that way since we moved there 50 some years before!
I asked him why he would need a fence--he said to know where to stop mowing his lawn! I thought that to be sort of dumb, since i'd just mow to wherever he stopped, and he could do vice-versa, so i told him that!
so, the fence went bye-bye! Then one day he planted some hedges, which gave up the ghost inside of one summer--they didn't like laquer thinner, i suppose! The reason i didn't want anything put in the area was, when the oak leaves fell down in the fall, they would blow on down our road, but would be caught in a fence, or hedges, and i'd have to gather them up! So, with no fence or hedges, they now blow way down the road, to the main hiway and beyond, we're the best of neighbors and friends, and hopefully, we'll all live happily ever after (Or until we croak!)

We had a neighbor who planted raspberries along our fence. I talked to him twice about planting raspberries of any kind right along my fence because they are very invasive and I did not want the job of trying to control them. Our land was lower then his and so the raspberries naturally ran into our yard. He had over 2 acres of land and he could have planted the raspberries in many other places besides next to my fence.

Well, he went ahead and planted black raspberries which are much harder to control then red raspberries not to mention the thorns. Needless to say, the raspberries bit the dust before even sprouting. He replanted the next year and I'll be darned they died again.

fascinating posts - rustyj14 and msafirstein - commit criminal acts because you don't like what your neighbor is doing on HIS OWN PROPERTY. Yes, you committed criminal acts of vandalism. And you are proud of yourselves?!?!? If someone did the same thing to you and you found out you would be furious. I hope you're not passing your "values" onto your children. Actually, it is probably better for this world if you are not procreating at all.

I would put up the fence. Obviously there is no pleasing the neighbors and you did the neighborally thing. Put up your fence and enjoy your privacy. There are worse things you can do and this is not bad at all and you did not do nothing to these neighbors so dont get yourself upset about it. They can either like you or not and if they choose not to, then i am sure you will get over it. You have your family. Thats all you need. Good luck:0

My neighbor planeted a weeping willow 2 feet from our property line. You have to understand that this neighbors property comes to a small triangular point at the back of his propery that is 4 feet wide where he planted the tree. That means the only part of his tree that is on his property is the trunk. The actual leaves are shared by me and the neighbior on the other side of him. We talked to him about it, I was concerned about the mess and the plumbing lines. He said he needed a tree that would grow fast, and he was moving in a couple of years so it wouldn't be his problem. My husband and I debated about pouring poision on the tree many nights. I guess my Catholic school uprbinging wouldn't allow me to take that step. Now I wish I had, it's a huge mess in MY YARD, not his. He sold the house to new people and they love the tree. The branches hang down to the ground on MY grass, and I hate trying to walk under it because of the creepy crawlies hanging from the branches. At first I would go out with siccors and cut the branches, but it grows too fast and it's much too big for me to keep up with it. Every hard rain or wind leaves a hug mess on my property.

So go ahead and put up your fence! The safety and comfort of my animals would supercede annoying my grumpy neighbors.

susan, hire a tree company to cut all portions of the tree hanging on your side. Leave him with an ugly tree . I can't remember during my years of working in a law office but I want to say that what ever hangs over onto your side is YOURS.

Also note that the roots on your side of the property are yours aswell, if all the wieght of a tree is on one side, and all the roots of that three are on that one side, a wind in the right direction can be a very dangerous thing. That being said I think Native trees are of great importance and I think that only invasive trees should be thinned out.
We are seperated from a 4plex by a screen of native birch and willow, but behind that screen they have a narrow strip of about 5 feet that they have allowed weeds to prosper on, nasty weeds too, ones that the extension service is paying pewople to pull out and they refuse to do anything about it, they also have mayday cherries which are completely outcompeteing the native trees, Eventually I will get around to treating every leaf on our side of the fence with some round up, although in the case of something like raspberries I would recomend a mechanical barrior and a little judicious mowwing.

"So, with no fence or hedges, they now blow way down the road, to the main hiway and beyond, we're the best of neighbors and friends, and hopefully, we'll all live happily ever after "

Are you actually saying that, after destroying your neighbor's property and causing environmental damage, you consider yourself a FRIEND to those people? Do you actually think they'd return those feelings if they knew what you did?

You posted this story in another threat, apparently proud of your clever solution. These aren't just the actions of a crazy neighbor, they are downright creepy. I'd hate to think what you'd come up with if they got a cat you didn't like.

Just because you're unable to too lazy to rake leaves doesn't mean that you can change everyone else's arrangments to suit yourself. Get a life.

I grew empathetic to my crazy neighbor when it appeared his activities had taken a decline around April of 2006. So in response, I made the website inactive in an effort to bring about a detante and hopefully bring an end to my crazy neighbor's hate crime activities. Florida Statutes, Title 46, 775.085

While I was away dealing with a family fatality, my crazy neighbor engaged in hate speech and inciting for months over the summer, working on the residents that live on my street, directly in front of my home.

My crazy neighbor lives one street over but is spreading hate speech about me directly to people that have lived over there barely a year now. They are mostly tenants and de facto tenants which were my crazy neighbor's easiest recruits. The result is that when I returned from dealing with the family fatality, I suffered two intentional dog attacks on separate dates. As a result, I have had to seek injunctions for protection from repeat violence from my crazy neighbor's newly indoctrinated followers. In response to what has happened, I filed a Florida Hate Crime Complaint with the Florida Department of Law Enforcement and the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office.

I recently watched a Jacksonville City Counsel meeting that was broadcasted last week on WJCT TV 7 and one of the public speakers told our Jacksonville City Council leaders that Jacksonville is one of the most racist (hateful) cities in America.

I have lived in Jacksonville for over 20 years and I can testify this is a fact.

775.085 Evidencing prejudice while committing offense; reclassification.--
(1)(a) The penalty for any felony or misdemeanor shall be reclassified as provided in this subsection if the commission of such felony or misdemeanor evidences prejudice based on the race, color, ancestry, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, national origin, mental or physical disability, or advanced age of the victim:

1. A misdemeanor of the second degree is reclassified to a misdemeanor of the first degree.

2. A misdemeanor of the first degree is reclassified to a felony of the third degree.

3. A felony of the third degree is reclassified to a felony of the second degree.

4. A felony of the second degree is reclassified to a felony of the first degree.

5. A felony of the first degree is reclassified to a life felony.

(b) As used in paragraph (a), the term:

1. "Mental or physical disability" means that the victim suffers from a condition of physical or mental incapacitation due to a developmental disability, organic brain damage, or mental illness, and has one or more physical or mental limitations that restrict the victim's ability to perform the normal activities of daily living.

2. "Advanced age" means that the victim is older than 65 years of age.

(2) A person or organization that establishes by clear and convincing evidence that it has been coerced, intimidated, or threatened in violation of this section has a civil cause of action for treble damages, an injunction, or any other appropriate relief in law or in equity. Upon prevailing in such civil action, the plaintiff may recover reasonable attorney's fees and costs.

(3) It is an essential element of this section that the record reflect that the defendant perceived, knew, or had reasonable grounds to know or perceive that the victim was within the class delineated in this section.

Hmm, I'm not sure who's crazier.
Your crazy neighbor or you for spending all those hours posting this web site all over the place. Looks to me like you're having fun with this. Why are you posting this now on a Dutch server?
Man, if someone was making my life that miserable I'd just move. Life's too short.

This is an old thread but I read through it. I had a neighbor that seemed nice when they first moved in until they got the "puppy". The only problem is that puppies grow up to be dogs. They built a kennel on the side of the garage for him. Then he started to dig so they cemented the kennel floor. This is all well and good except for the trip from the house to the kennel. Neighbor won't put the dog(a German Shepherd) on a leash for the trip and the first unsuspecting person who happens to be in the back yard gets a huge dog racing at them. Not only that but one day the dog didn't want to go into the kennel so he was laying on the ground by the door and the neighbor grabbed the dog by the tail to drag him to the kennel. I said to the neighbor that it didn't seem that the dog wanted to go in. I wasn't mean or nasty about it(prob should have been)and neighbor gave me this drop dead look and won't speak. So..I went and spent $800 to get my lot surveyed and put up the "good neighbor" fence( didn't want to go the stockade neighbor hater one..prob should have) didn't put it right on the lot line but come to find out I gained about 4' of my yard back in the process. Seems their house was built about 5' from their lot line and in that space there are bushes.
I was worried about what the neighbor was going to say but so far nothing has come of it..although I should add that I drive a semi and am not there all the time also.
I agree with all others..if the fence isn't finished put yours in..you have the right to enjoy your yard as you want also.

truckincat: good job, getting that fence. I will never again live on property where I cannot have a fence that shows me and my neighbor exactly where their property lines are readily shown to them.
And if any dog goes after you in your own yard, don't hesitate to pepper spray them, they are in your yard and you don't know what the animals intentions are. My neighbors used to let their dog go in our yard when we weren't home, one time it got maced by the utility guy.
Still dealing with my problem neighbors since the last post on this subject... the guy just never gives up.
Finally had to call the authorities in and was told what he was doing all these years was considered harassment which is continued unwanted and / or unprovoked activities against person or property. I now have to "fortify" the split rail boundary, since that was not enough.
FYI: to all posters, when dealing with problem neighbors, document everything with photos and if necessary, tape record or video tape. Make a log and date the entries.

Does anyone know what the rules are about the height of the neighbor's fence? Our neighbor built a fence in his own yard, which is about 2 feet from our property wall. The property wall is about 5'6" and then his stockade fence which starts from a 2nd floor deck, is about 5 feet above that wall. So in effect he has a 10 foot fence.

In Honolulu, the rules were, only up to a 6' retaining wall (at least for new fill) but you could have up to a 6' "safety railing" on top - which was anything that didn't retain dirt. So a 6' fence on top of a 6' retaining call was ok.

We just sold (closing was Monday) on a house with benignly irritating (West) and deliberately cranky (East) neighbors.

In a nutshell: Last year, the Wests loved our new 6-foot cedar fence, seemingly oblivious to the fact that one of the reasons we put it up was because of their four boys, the trampoline 2-ft from the line, and a little "lack of respect for personal property problem" from their kids. Parents were very kind, but kids were, well, kids...unsupervised kids. I smiled, waved, and put up a big fence.

The Easts on the other hand immediatly got cranky. Like, called the city inspector cranky. Like, had the lot line resurveyed cranky. Turned out that Mr. East's dad had owned (for 40+years) the empty lot our house was built on. Mr. East wanted the lot. Mr. East got ticked off that Dad sold the lot. Then, Mr. East got even more ticked when the fence went up because it was a big, solid reminder of how much land his dad sold off.

Just goes to show that some neighbors are just being themselves, not meaning to irritate (e.g., the trampoline and four boys neighbors), and some have psychological sorrows that have caused them to focus their irritation on the wrong party (e.g., Mr. East blasting away at us because he felt his dad sold too much land--he didn't sell it to us, BTW, but the people before us.)

And we didn't move because of them. They were quite mild, all things considered. We just consciously enjoyed our lovely, and very private (except when the boys got some serious height on the trampoline) back yard.

I will never again live on property that is not entirely fenced in. Even though we got a survey from the very beginning when we purchased the house, some people can't even manage to respect survey boundaries. A fence, preferably a privacy fence, is always your best bet. Never expect people to be decent. You must assert your property rights from day one, before you get to know and talk to them. That way they will not take it personally if you put in a fence asap when you take possession of that property.

We have a neighbor who always made a point to come on our property - daily - and then rub it in our face. He would brag how he had keys to our home with the prior owners. He would come and touch the garage hours after I painted it to see if it was dry, and then tell me about it later (and he's walking all the way across my lawn to do so). He was really upset when we moved some pavers that came a foot onto our property along the side of the garage. Then he was even more upset that we put up a fence, and literally for two years, every time we walked outside our house he was making a comment that we're trying to keep him out of our yard. Yeah, we are. Deal with it! He would complain that the lawn mower doesn't get all the grass along the fence, so not only does my husband mow what isn't our property on that side, but I also go over there and pull the grass along his side of the fence so I don't have to hear him complain. If I don't, he sprays grass killer and kills my plants in the process. He's an old, rude, chauvenistic man. Really nosey too, like creepy nosey.

There were days that I'd check through my window to see if he was out there before I'd head to the garage, and I'd move swiftly because I was so tired of hearing his complaining.

I think a lot of long time homeowners don't deal well with newcomers and are afraid of change, especially the older crowd. They are accustomed to having rights to property that doesn't belong to them, so when you block it off, they take it personally. I told my husband that I wanted to put the fence up right when we bought the place, but we waited. Looking back now, it would have been easier if we had done it right off the bat.

That was the neighbor to the north of me. I'll call him Joe.

The neighbor on the other side of me recently purchased the home, and we both agreed to fence on that side between the properties because she also has little dogs. The neighbor on the other side of her now complains to her about the fence she put up. He's an old retired guy too.

The neighbor behind us basically threatened to replace OUR fence in the back - it was an old ranch style fence that went around the perimeter, but the previous owners stapled this ugly lattice work on it for privacy and put it this really shabby "patio" (if that's what you want to call it) back there. It did look bad, and I can only imagine how tired they were of looking at it, but at that time, we were planning a wedding, doing major remodeling on the interior of the home, I was taking care of a sick parent, and money only goes so far. Replacing the fence at that time was not a priority, and everyone in the neighborhood could see everything that we were doing with the place - we were complimented all the time. So, we put up some cheap, Home Depot wooden fence in the back and along the nosey neighbors side that very weekend that she threatened us with replacing OUR fence. It's ugly, but I don't care. I planted trees along the perimeter, and I don't have to look at it. I don't think that people should threaten homeowners with replacing their own property. In contrast, she has this ugly wooden, broken down playset that stands about 20 feet tall, and that's what we see when we look out into our back yard. The green tarp on the top of it became frayed over the winter, and we looked at that thing blowing around all season. It's horrendous. I miracle grow my trees in the back every week. They cannot grow fast enough.

The same neighbor - we have about 3 feet between our garages in the back where her garage meets mine. We have our wood pile back there, and it does not go beyond our property line. We have about a foot back from the garage. She takes broken cinder block and throws it back there. There are chunks laying everywhere, and most recently she had a pile of unbroken cinder blocks up against my wood pile. I could not even access my woodpile (it is under a tarp). So, after having had problems with them in the past, we decided to send them a certified letter and kindly asked them to move the cinder block away from my property so I can access my woodpile, so as to "avoid potential injury" should I fall on those rocks. It was moved within a week. Damn right if I fall on those rocks my homeowners insurance is going after her homeowners insurance(there have been other problems with these same neighbors, and I can say with confidence that they do it intentionally).

When we first saw our current house/property, we met the neighbors and let them know we would be fencing the property since we wanted to do some landscaping and not have it all eaten by deer. The house had been empty for a year or so, and deer had made a highway through our back slope. The neighbors seemed nice enough but very reserved and private, which was fine with us.

They didn't have any problem with our erecting a fence (they even paid half for the segment between our properties), but they wanted to ensure we would be getting the line surveyed (we'd already scheduled it). They said that our satellite dish was probably on their property (back when they were 6-8 feet diameter). Imagine their surprise when not only was the sat dish on our property, but so were their swingset, lumber pile, and several nice redwoods. Thank goodness the surveyed property line didn't skew too far over, or we would have also owned his HUGE 150+ ft fir tree that cost the next owner several thousand $$$ to be removed.

This same neighbor also built an illegal "granny" unit, intending his delinquent son to live in it, playing loud music to all hours (they lied to us and said it was only going to be a storage shed (the story from him) or exercise studio (the story from her). Not only was it built 3' from the property line, it was built unsafely and without permits, and looked right into our second story. They probably thought we had just moved from "over the hill" (San Jose) and thus didn't know anything about local planning rules and regulations (in fact, we had moved from our first house just 2 miles away). There had been a huge crackdown on illegal granny units in the past year or so, and it was all over the local papers, so we did, in fact, know quite a bit about this subject. We turned them in to the county, and after a couple years of legal wrangling (theirs, not ours), they poured a perimeter foundation (it had been on piers) and moved the cottage 10 feet away from the fence; in addition, they had to disable the bathroom since their septic system wasn't rated for another bathroom.

They sold the house a few years later, and now the house is on the market again (current owner is nice and quiet, no problems at all). We've heard real estate agents telling prospective buyers that "hooking the bathroom back up after closing would be a piece of cake" and "you could probably rent this unit out for $850 a month." Current owner had not described the unit as such, just as a separate office/studio/storage, so he's not to blame. We'll see what happens...

DH and I did agonize over many weeks about turning them in...it was not an easy decision, but since they had lied to us about the unit's purpose, and built it unsafely (and undermined the aforementioned fir's root system), we felt we had no other choice. Frankly, if they had built it elsewhere on the property, safely, yet still illegal, we wouldn't have turned them in.