When a proposal to encourage end-of-life planning touched off a political storm over “death panels,” Democrats dropped it from legislation to overhaul the health care system. But the Obama administration will achieve the same goal by regulation, starting Jan. 1.

Under the new policy, outlined in a Medicare regulation, the government will pay doctors who advise patients on options for end-of-life care, which may include advance directives to forgo aggressive life-sustaining treatment.

Congressional supporters of the new policy, though pleased, have kept quiet. They fear provoking another furor like the one in 2009 when Republicans seized on the idea of end-of-life counseling to argue that the Democrats’ bill would allow the government to cut off care for the critically ill.

The final version of the health care legislation, signed into law by President Obama in March, authorized Medicare coverage of yearly physical examinations, or wellness visits. The new rule says Medicare will cover “voluntary advance care planning,” to discuss end-of-life treatment, as part of the annual visit.

There is no way that government should be involved in any way, what so ever in the life and death decisions of an individual when it comes to health care. It behooves the government financially if people die sooner, thus not having to pay for the health care costs associated with medical conditions at the end of life.

The underhanded sneakiness of Barack Obama, adding this back in, by regulation, after such a large public outcry against it, should be surprising, but it isn’t given that he and the Democratically controlled Congress all passed Obamacare against the opposition of the majority of Americans to begin with, shows that Obama does not care one iota for the public’s opinion and will force his agenda down American’s throats as long as he can get away with it.

Obama cares not what the people think and will do anything to push his Leftist agenda. If his lips are moving, do not trust this man, 2012 cannot come fast enough.

This article comes from a misunderstanding of how Washington works. Every time Congress passes a law and it is signed by the President, the next step is to send it to the appropriate federal agency, which is responsible for writing the regulations. Without regulations, the law could not be implemented. This is not a new process. It has been this way all along. The process was probably in place before Obama was born. Learn your history.
____________
SM: Learn yours. Obama said that it would not br in it, um who do you think has a say as to how the regulations are done? Sorry that you cannot accept that OBAMA IS A LIAR!

R

A Texas Grandfather on
December 26th, 2010 8:27 pm

Until congress stops letting the bureaucrats finish writing the laws, this will continue.

Nancy Pelosi was only partially correct with her declaration that health care had to be passed so that we would know what is in it. When the socialist bureaucrats finish with the rules, that may or may not be indicated by the legislative language, it will be a total mess of rules and regulations just as is the Tax Code.

The American people must get rid of the career politicians and their bureaucrats.

They fear provoking another furor like the one in 2009 when Republicans seized on the idea of end-of-life counseling to argue that the Democrats’ bill would allow the government to cut off care for the critically ill.

Fred on
December 26th, 2010 10:06 pm

We need the death panels. Vast sums of my tax dollars are spent vainly trying to keep dying people alive for a few more minutes or hours at the obvious end of their lives. This must stop! I strongly oppose Obamacare but we do need people to think about why these heroic measures are taken — it’s because there is a big bill attached and these dying people have some kind of insurance, public or private. When people don’t have insurance, the plug is pulled on artificial life support and they are allowed to die with dignity, which is how it should be.

Even without Obamacare, which is a job-killer and is a financial fraud, there does need to be mandatory counseling about end-of-life decision-making. There is not an endless pile of money to support keeping a dying person alive for 12 more hours. This is a total and obvious squandering of resources. If only there were death panels (there aren’t). Enough of the “doctrinaire” conservatism. Let’s apply some common sense, not just to the idiotic left but also the knee-jerk right.
______________
SM: Dude, no where in this discussion should there be a government paying some one to make this decision. So I guess you want to have health care withheld from you because of your age. Really?

So Obamacare makes it mandatory that you have healthcare, then also will mandate that you do not get it because of age or condition. Brilliance.
R

#5. What a govt scam. We are going to have social security age increased in the not to distant future. Then we will have Obamacare dictating that people will not reach the age. How convenient.

The issue is we were told there would be no death panels, when all along they knew there would be.

Obamacare needs to be repealed and health care reform needs to be started from square one.
R

Greg on
December 27th, 2010 1:02 am

“the government will pay doctors who advise patients on options for end-of-life care”

“There is no way that government should be involved in any way, what so ever in the life and death decisions of an individual when it comes to health care.”

“no where in this discussion should there be a government paying some one to make this decision”

So here we have one quote from the NYT article, and two statements from the post (or comments) made by SM. One says doctors can be paid (reimbursed) for providing advice, the others say the government is somehow involved in or paying someone to make this decision. Really?? How government reimbursement for a doctors time to discuss end-of-life care gets them into the room and involved in any kind of death decision is beyond understanding.

To date, the only death panels in existence are those in Arizona, where many patients are now condemned to death as a result of Gov. Jan Brewer and her decision to not fund life-saving transplants. All to save a few million dollars, which she was unwilling to include in the budget. So far, there is no accountability as to what was kept in the budget that was more important than citizens lives.

By the way, it seems that Gov Brewer has violated the “involved” clause above. Is she to be held accountable for this action?

Greg on
December 27th, 2010 1:05 am

With several mentions of Obama lying, it would be useful to know when, where, and what he said in regard to what was not going to be in the bill.

Anything to support these claims would help.
___________
SM: Do you actually pay attention to current events? This was a major discussion that nearly had Blue Dog Dems not sign on to the bill. Obama admin walked away from this because it was so contraversial that even Democrats would not sign onto Obamacare. The language was removed in order to pass the bill.

This is a perfect example of abouse of Executive power abuse. If you can’t legislate, then regulate. The idea that the govt is incentifying dr’s to do this is a real issue. Remember back in the day of HMO’s when dr’s were paid to reduce the # of procedures by not referring pts? Well now we have the Fed. Govt doing someyhing very similar.

What is most amazing is that Obama makes it mandatory for people to have insurance, yet they will also not provide healthcare for cost cutting measures. You cant have it both ways.

Section 1233 of the Health Monstrosity was specifically dropped under intense pressure to keep the Medicare bureaucracy out of “end-of-life-planning.”

But the Health Monstrosity does allow payment for an annual “Wellness Visit” so Obama’s Administration ruthlessly advances the agenda and modifies legislation by regulation to start paying for “end-of-life-planning” as a function of wellness.

“We have to pass it so you can find out what’s in it.” That was true. But even if an intensely unpopular section of the legislation is specifically removed, we now have the power to regulate health care the way we want to regulate it.

One of my major objections to the Health Monstrosity was all of the provisions that would be promulgated by regulations by the Department of Health and Human Services. But this is regulation to specifically subvert the legislative process. And to add insult to outrage:

Several Democratic members of Congress, led by Representative Earl Blumenauer of Oregon and Senator John D. Rockefeller IV of West Virginia, had urged the administration to cover end-of-life planning as a service offered under the Medicare wellness benefit. A national organization of hospice care providers made the same recommendation.
Mr. Blumenauer, the author of the original end-of-life proposal, praised the rule as “a step in the right direction.”
“It will give people more control over the care they receive,” Mr. Blumenauer said in an interview. “It means that doctors and patients can have these conversations in the normal course of business, as part of our health care routine, not as something put off until we are forced to do it.”

After learning of the administration’s decision, Mr. Blumenauer’s office celebrated “a quiet victory,” but urged supporters not to crow about it.

“While we are very happy with the result, we won’t be shouting it from the rooftops because we aren’t out of the woods yet,” Mr. Blumenauer’s office said in an e-mail in early November to people working with him on the issue. “This regulation could be modified or reversed, especially if Republican leaders try to use this small provision to perpetuate the ‘death panel’ myth.”

Remember, this is from the office of a Democratic Congressman, the email goes on to be quite specific about the need to keep this regulation “secret” for as long as possible:

Moreover, the e-mail said: “We would ask that you not broadcast this accomplishment out to any of your lists, even if they are ‘supporters’ — e-mails can too easily be forwarded.”
The e-mail continued: “Thus far, it seems that no press or blogs have discovered it, but we will be keeping a close watch and may be calling on you if we need a rapid, targeted response. The longer this goes unnoticed, the better our chances of keeping it.”

In the interview, Mr. Blumenauer said, “Lies can go viral if people use them for political purposes.”

brie. on
December 27th, 2010 3:29 am

We don’t need a President that is an outright liar and sneak. Just like is birth certificate…Obama was born in Kenya…and he damn knows it…!!!!

demz taters on
December 27th, 2010 4:56 am

If you want to see what “death panels” really look like, you don’t need to look any further than our current for-profit health insurance model. They continually look for ways to deny people doctor-prescribed care and procedures or to drop them from coverage altogether. I think I’ll take my chances with the government over the tender mercies of corporate bureaucrats who are compensated based on how much money they save for their companies.
____________
SM: What part about government run and private industry don’t you quite get? Hmm?
R

none on
December 27th, 2010 9:02 am

Gawd this bastard is a creep!!!!!

Elmer on
December 27th, 2010 9:04 am

There are no death panels, Red! As much as I despise Obamacare, this whole death panel thing is absurd! If there’s anything in the stupid bill I agree with, it is this: People should receive end-of-life counseling. As Greg pointed out, “How government reimbursement for a doctors time to discuss end-of-life care gets them into the room and involved in any kind of death decision is beyond understanding.” By the way, you might want to get a better source than the woodenboat.com forum, “dude.”
______________
SM: Elmer, there are plenty of sources that show that Obama took this out to get it passed. Sorry, but you do not incentivise dr’s to discuss death. That is like paying Planned Parenthood to discuss abortion.

You do not do this with a monetary gain at the end.

Sorry, there was a reason why Obama and these scumbag Dems removed this. Now, suddenly its back. These people cannot be trusted with anything, including your life. If you don’t find theat important, then heaven help you. Just an FHI, i think I have a little expertise behind this being that I am a HC consultant.
R

My brother’s health care plan has saved his life three times. Paid for by me. NOT THE GOVERNMENT! He is now normal and healthy. Under Obama care he would have died. That says it all AMERICA!

brie. on
December 27th, 2010 4:50 pm

Another dirty handed issue. He will do anything he can to harm and displease We The People. He is suppose to be our friend not our boss. And he does not own us nor this country. Imagine another two years of his s~~t. Take away all his pens so he can’t sign anything else. He is an enemy and likes being so. A wicked evil monster.

I bet he sits around and laughs when he pulls one off.

brie. on
December 27th, 2010 5:49 pm

Complete misuse of power, thought and care. He was taught for 25 yrs by Rev Wright how to hate America.

And then interfered with the Cambridge Police Dept and called them stupid when officer Crowley was only doing his job. So Obama invites them to the White House for a beer. I guess that was suppose to make everything alright. The stupid one was Obama.

brie. on
December 27th, 2010 6:07 pm

If he is suppose to be so smart then how come everything he does is d~~n dumb.

Greg on
December 27th, 2010 6:39 pm

#17
I’m glad you are taking care of your brother, and that he has seen the successes you mention.

However, your opinion on Obamacare is just that; your opinion. Having an opinion is fine, but that in no way makes it true.

“that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home”.

I for one, agree with this statement; perhaps you or others don’t. So be it. Also, how in any way did Obama interfere with the police here. I’m impressed with your imagination.
______________
SM: Obama acted stupidly. He opened up his big yap without knowing the facts. or worse, he did know they facts and still made the ignorant comment. Go figure, Obama being devisive, nah NEVAH!!!
R

If the government pays a doctor to provide “end of life” counseling, don’t you get who will dictate what “end of life” counseling is? The US government will dictate what a doctor does and does not tell an elderly patient and you better bet it will be a guilt trip laid on seniors for consuming health care resources.

Everyone should decide for themselves under what circumstances they do or do not wish to continue life. It differs from person to person and for good reason: we are all individuals endowed by our Creator (other phrase Obama hates).

As costs continue to climb under ObamaCare, and they will until it’s repealed), the death counseling will change. Soon, those that face any type of expensive treatment will be encouraged to forego that treatment for the “good” of the US government.

What part of when a person lies to you they are not to be trusted in ANYTHING do you idiots not get? I’m sure when it’s your relative or you getting the death counseling, you’ll wake up and smell the funeral roses.

Greg the Great on
December 27th, 2010 8:42 pm

21. Obama Care would have not paid for the specialists to save my brothers life. Not enough money, and doctors to service the people. These new panels will decide wrong age, not cost effective. Or put people on urgent care waiting list. Greg Just keep taking the blue pill Obama talks about.

21. Obama Care would have not paid for the specialists to save my brothers life. Not enough money, and doctors to service the people under Obama care. These new panels will decide wrong age, not cost effective. Or put people on urgent care waiting list.

#26
I don’t know how it is possible to know what a yet to be written insurance policy issued by a privately-help insurance company (and this is a government takeover?) would cover. And yet you already know this policy would not cover the medical needs for your brother. Talk about a big scam!

Your linked article is from the big Newt discusses what he claims is the British system and their limit on spending ($45,000) for life saving treatment (paraphrased).

What a surprise that this is already happening in AZ, yet there appears to be no uproar about the reality there. What is the bogeyman of Obama-care to come compared with the ongoing Brewer-care today? Are you people blind to what’s going on?

Furthermore, the current insurance industry today is also limiting care, and for profit in their case. Otherwise they would not have enough money to pay the executives huge salaries!
_____________
SM: Finally we have gotten to Greg’s major mal-adjustment. The green eye of of jealousy because of envy what others make. The truth comes out in the end.

Greg on
December 27th, 2010 9:35 pm

#24
You forgot to mention the repeal date which will have to be after 2012.

I guess the more sensible plan will be the one the GOP has been pushing for since 2001; wait, that never happened. maybe it will be as financially sound as the Bush tax cuts that saved; wait, they cost US taxpayers in the range of $700 billion (so far) for the top 2% incomes and were paid for (with borrowed money). I guess this new plan will be as sound as the proposed Bush/GOP SS privatization plan; wait, that plan was so awful and so easily debunked as financially sound that it was DOA. And a good thing; imagine the larger devastation if SS was in the stock market when the Bush crash came around. Kiss all parts of your retirement good-bye!

Oh yeah, socialist healthcare takeover, except with individual insurance policies from commercial insurance companies. What could be more capitalist than that?
______________
SM: Of course it will be after 2012, as soon as Obama is tossed out of office. I will gladly have health care on the plate to dicuss for the 2012 elections. However, Obamacare will not be funded in the new Congress. However, what Dems will be stupid enough to run on Obamacare in ’12? They could not run away from it fast enough in 2012 … check out the # of Dem US Senators that are up for reelection. They will lose control in 2012.

Obamacare is finished. What’s that sound? Its the sound of inevitability.

Greg on
December 27th, 2010 9:51 pm

#23
If it’s not to tough a question to answer, I would be interested in knowing if agree with the Obama quote?

Greg on
December 27th, 2010 11:18 pm

SM(#28),
If only it was the truth that really mattered.

The truth here is not an absolute, simply decrying large executive salaries. It is a comparative; that instead of using premiums to provide actual health care, more money goes to huge executive salaries.

I guess there may be a truth for some, in that these executives are paid what they are worth. After all, they greatly reduced the product costs for their business (claims), with only a slight reduction in lives. Capitalism is above reproach!

Oh yeah, and the silence continues from one and all on the real pain and suffering due to the bona fide death panels, in AZ and corporate board rooms.
______________
SM: Now for the ultimate question you need to answer, why are insurance companies in business?

R

Dolf on
December 28th, 2010 10:30 am

@31 Red…the real question is why do you keep leting yourselfs get shafted by the pharma and insurance industrie.

and when somebody tries to do something about it……..
______________
SM: Who tried to do something about it?
R

brie. on
December 28th, 2010 6:42 pm

Moonbats and morons…go post somewhere else.

Obama has lost his mind…out of control!!! A terrorist himself, cruel, uncaring, destructive, self-centered, arrogant, snotty, disrespectful, and a not a legal American. Who wants to visit their doctor and discuss a death plan. To cut off health care for the critically ill, causing agony and pain. That is murder.

Obama doesn’t like Americans or this country. He only favors illegal immigrants and Muslims. Let’s kill.

Elmer on
December 28th, 2010 6:46 pm

I see this – as I usually see everything – in a very personal light. I have a condition that may or may not kill me. There is a fairly high mortality rate associated with it, but it’s by no means a sure thing that I’ll die because of it. BUT… whenever the time comes, assuming I don’t just drop dead of a heart attack or get run over by a train or something, I want to know what my options are. I want a doctor to discuss with me just what I might expect. If there is a chance for a cure, then let’s go for it. If, on the other hand, the best they can offer me is a slightly prolonged life, filled with tubes, needles, and bank-busting cost for my family, then I’m going to opt out. I don’t understand why that seems so outrageous to some of you folks.

NoBama in 2012 on
December 28th, 2010 10:02 pm

#34. What if dr’s had a finincial incentive to tell you the glass is half full of your medical condition? Seriously, what if dr’s were paid $’s to paint a less colorful outcome of your condition, rather than a way to live out your life to a rightful age?

Be very careful of ptting a dollar figure on your life.

brie. on
December 29th, 2010 6:31 am

Obama is a fake and a phony, sneak, liar and a cheat.

And as far as the issue on Crowley and Gates. A quote from ABC, Obama says ” Because this been ratcheting up–and I obviously helped to contribute ratcheting it up–I want to make clear that in my choice of words, I think, I unfortunately…gave an impression that I was maligning the Cambridge police department or Sgt Crowley specifically “the president said. “And I could’ve calibrated those words differently. And I told this to Sgt Crowley.”

Crowley responded to a 911 call from a passerby that said a man with suitcases was trying to break the door down. Crowley asked to see Gates’s identification and he said “No I will not”. He gave the officer a lot of lip and called him a racist. Then Crowley arrested him for disorderly conduct. Crowley is by far anything but a racist, he teaches rookie cops how to handle issues on racism. He’s an excellent officer.

You can’t flip off or lip off a police officer that is defending the law.

Obama’s solution was, come to the White House and we’ll just drink it away. We can also bury my uttering injuriously misleading or false reports.

Elmer on
December 29th, 2010 8:22 am

Re #35: In all of this vast wasteland of a bill, it amazes me that you guys are latching onto the one part of the bill that really makes sense. Right now, an inordinate amount of health care money is being spent on people with only months left to live. The intent of this part of the bill seems to be to improve the quality of life for “short-timers” by concentrating more on palliative care than on the proverbial heroic measures which cost a lot of money and don’t do any good. But, by golly, Sarah Palin yells “death panels” and the faithful jump!
_______________
SM: So if that individual was your child who was a so-called “short timeer” you would just cut off care because of $’s? Be very careful what you wish for.

I am not sure if you are really getting the point. Should a govt force you to buy healthcare and then tell you that you cannot use it. I will get into further later, but do you know how the govt incentivises dr’s?
R
R

#35
How do you know your doctor isn’t lying to you now, and telling you to do things that make his life easier, not yours. What if he/she doesn’t care about you, and wants you to just go away.

I like the way you can so easily transfer hate of government to all doctors; obviously they are all out to get you. Perhaps you need to do a better job of picking a doctor.

I feel sad for your life filled with constant fear of everything.

Greg on
December 29th, 2010 10:28 am

#33
After such colorful language and sentiments, its hard to imagine how different you are compared to what your comment describes.

Either that or the intellect involved here is MIA.

Greg on
December 29th, 2010 10:31 am

#36
I see you have a clear opinion; my simple question to you then is: do you agree with the Obama quote?

Elmer on
December 29th, 2010 10:40 am

Re #37: Try putting a cork in the bottle every now and then, Red. When did I say the government should force anybody to buy insurance? About the time you said you were in favor of abortion and a card-carrying member of PETA?

brie. on
December 29th, 2010 8:49 pm

Bat down the hatches, secure all stations, there are trolls on here. They like to take things out of context and put things in their own demented order.

brie. on
December 29th, 2010 11:19 pm

Bat down the hatches, there are a couple of trolls on board. They like causing trouble and take things out of context and say things they have created in their own demented mind. Personally attack other people that post.

brie. on
December 29th, 2010 11:53 pm

To support a dog killer is absolutely inhumane..that’s Obama. Muslims do not have dogs as pets according to their religion, except for seeing eye dogs and those for security, but not as a pet. Obama hides behind BO, trying to make everything look right.

Obamacare is nothing but Logan’s Run without a nekkie Farrah Fawcett and those oh-so-cool monorail chases.

Greg on
December 30th, 2010 11:56 pm

#44

Are you trying to say you are sensitive when there are non-positive comments made of someone? And yet nearly every word of yours in #33 is full of hate, anger, and total disrespect towards someone. And you close with the poignant “Let’s kill.”

How is it possible to have these such polar opposite thoughts within one persons mind? I can only apologize for tormenting you with my equally hateful and angry screed in #40.

Greg on
December 31st, 2010 12:04 am

#43
I don’t suppose you’d like to demonstrate some of these “things (taken) out of context” and things said and “created in their own demented mind?”