Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.

Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

Conflicted about a friend's gf

Earlier this month I met a girl that a friend is dating. She seemed cool enough and he's a good guy so I was glad for him. We did the usual add each other on FB and what not.

It's on FB that she notices I do a bit of running, and she messages me asking if I ever want to run together. I say yes, since I do like running with people and her place is right by the place I always run. Then later that week she pops up on my OkCupid feed as a new user which raises an eyeborw.

So we end up running together and we pretty much talk the entire time through the 10 mile run. Really seem to click, and it's there I find out that she did the Ok Cupid thing because she's not entirely sure about a relationship wiht my friend (though she hasn't communicated with anyone else). Afterwards the run we grab some Jamba Juice, and my friend shows up (He had called asking where she was, she told him. He knew about her running with me prior). While we're sitting down I notice he pulls his seat closer to hers, doing the usual "guy marking his territory move". By this time I decide to head out, though she and me do make plans to play tennis and run more together.

So at this point I'm really liking hanging out with her and what's worse is that I could see myself dating her..if she wasn't with my friend. I'm not going to get in the middle of that or do anything that would mess up their thing. Additionally, like I said she's a cool girl with a lot of the same interest as I do, so at the least we could be good friends. I don't want my friend thinking I'm trying to move in on her though, but he lives about an hour away so by simple nature he doesn't get invited to a lot of our hanging out during the week (trivia nights, happy hours, etc), where as I would be inviting her. So I start throwing him out an invite too to everything?

TLDR: Not sure how to proceed with a girl who's sorta dating my friend and I may be interesting it

Posts

The Smart Thing to Do: Stop doing solo things with her, only hang out with her in a group until she either dumps your friend or you find someone else.
The Less Smart Thing to Do But Still Acceptable: Keep hanging out with her solo, but maintain strict boundaries and don't undermine their relationship for your own benefit.
The Stupid Thing to Do: Make a move.
The REALLY Stupid Thing to Do: Keep hanging out with her solo, don't maintain any boundaries and undermine her relationship with your friend for your own benefit.

I would do either 1 or 2 personally.

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

wrote:

When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'

0·

Skull2185Ghosts need you to look at them. That makes them real.Registered Userregular

I would keep hanging out with this girl if I were you. There's nothing wrong with being friends with her, especially since you have a bunch of common interests. As long as you're not sleeping together or dating or whatever behind your friend's back, you're not doing anything wrong. If she's not terribly interested in your friend though, she needs to be honest with him and tell him. Otherwise, your pal could harbor some resentment towards you for "sabotaging" his relationship (even though you totally aren't)

It's like the N-word and the C-word had a baby, and it was raised by all the bad words for Jews.3DS FC: 5129-0946-8305PSN: DrSkullnumbers

The Smart Thing to Do: Stop doing solo things with her, only hang out with her in a group until she either dumps your friend or you find someone else.
The Less Smart Thing to Do But Still Acceptable: Keep hanging out with her solo, but maintain strict boundaries and don't undermine their relationship for your own benefit.
The Stupid Thing to Do: Make a move.
The REALLY Stupid Thing to Do: Keep hanging out with her solo, don't maintain any boundaries and undermine her relationship with your friend for your own benefit.

I would do either 1 or 2 personally.

What he said, you're a goose if you do anything except 1 or 2.

"At first he thought it might be a natural occurrence - maybe a rabbit. But upon closer inspection, it was clear a knife had been used. And rabbits don't carry knives."

2 would be what I would do, you're allowed to be friends with her. Feel free to do 1, she obviously has her own misgivings with the relationship to work through, don't force her hand and don't undermine her relationship or the one you have with your friend. If you decide to pursue a romantic one after she leaves, pass it by your friend first. You don't need his permission but you can certainly give him a heads up, and if he blows up at you... you may reconsider your friendship at that point.

If you are all adults, you are all allowed to have a friendship with anyone you choose. If your friend has a problem with it, the onus is on him to bring it up. Just make sure that you've decided the boundary is friendship. If your feelings change and you want to be with her, you should excuse yourself from hanging solo until they split.

Just be a good dude and think about how you would want to be treated if you were him. Treat him that way. Unless you're a masochist.

notmetalenough on May 2012

Samael the Radiant Faced-- Official Naming, Going Nuclear, Click on the Quest, Make She Run and Guild Measurements [strike]Officer[/strike] - Clawshrimp & Co, Draenor-US

There's nothing wrong with hanging out with this girl as a friend. Just know that you need to keep communication lines open with your buddy or it will look like you're sneaking around, even though you aren't. If she really isn't all that interested in him any more, he's going to be feeling that. She's going to be standoffish. I mean, she should really just end it with him, but it doesn't sound like she's ready to do that. All of this, coupled with the fact you two are spending a lot of time together, and he has a legitimate cause for concern--you're seeing his girlfriend far more than he is.

Just be open about it. Tell him you're going running with her this week. If you're going to a bar and she's coming along, invite him. Even if you know 100% that he can't make it because of the distance or an obligation, throw out the invite. This will tell him it's a group, friendly activity. Not the two of you hanging out without him.

But really, if she does end it with him, are you really going to make a move? No matter how you handle that, you're losing a friend.

@Debaser I don't think it's my place. She confided in me, and what she's told me she has talked out some of her issues with him. She also only has it set to "looking for friends". They way she explained was that she does like him and care for him, but there's red flags for her that gives her cause for worry. Whatever it is, I don't think it's smart for me to get involved more than I already would be.

Thanks for the input guys. Sentry hit the nail on the head and I think I'll be going with issue two, specially since I been desperate to find someone to actually play tennis with. Luckily most of the stuff that I would invite to would be group settings already, but I'll make sure to start tossing him the invites, as well as always making it clear that he's more than welcome to join us to anything we do.

@Figgy I don't want to think about that possibility until I have to(if I have to) cross that bridge. I figure it would depend how long they dated for and how I feel about her.

I feel I should clarify...
Number 2 is obviously the best choice, but it's also probably the hardest one, and should only be taken if you can actually do it. Half-assing it is a good way to lose your friendship with both of them.
That's why I put it as number 2.

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

wrote:

When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'

@Figgy I don't want to think about that possibility until I have to(if I have to) cross that bridge. I figure it would depend how long they dated for and how I feel about her.

Just so you're clear about this going forward, none of those variables will matter to your friend. If they break up and you pursue this girl, your friendship with him is either over or severely compromised and will never really be at the same level.

- Buddy meets girl
- Buddy introduces you to girl
- You and girl start hanging out a lot
- Girl breaks up with buddy
- You start seeing girl

It doesn't matter how innocent or platonic things are until that last point, it's going to look like you broke them up to get together with her. Nothing you say will change that. Just be sure you're aware that it will play out this way if you do make that final step.

Well that sucks. Now that it's laid out like that, yeah it would look really horrible.

I call him friend because he's more than an aquintance. We mainly hung out in group settings, but I'm always invited to anything he throws (pool parties, birthday parties , etc) and vice versa. I usually see him once a month or so.

@Figgy, yeah... I guess. I don't think that's necessarily true. One of my ex's dated and then married my best friend and I was the best man at their wedding. I never felt like he broke us up or that anything untoward happened during her and I's relationship.

I guess I'm just saying that different folks have different reactions to awkward/weird social mores. @anotheralt, you're the only one who can really say how your friend would react that particular development.

Samael the Radiant Faced-- Official Naming, Going Nuclear, Click on the Quest, Make She Run and Guild Measurements [strike]Officer[/strike] - Clawshrimp & Co, Draenor-US

@Figgy, yeah... I guess. I don't think that's necessarily true. One of my ex's dated and then married my best friend and I was the best man at their wedding. I never felt like he broke us up or that anything untoward happened during her and I's relationship.

I guess I'm just saying that different folks have different reactions to awkward/weird social mores. @anotheralt, you're the only one who can really say how your friend would react that particular development.

Were you in the exact same situation as I outlined it? Was your best friend and your ex hanging out while you were dating and "long distance"? Was she confiding in him that you two weren't really that good together? It's a very specific circumstance that is going to result in a very obvious conclusion on the friend's part.

If she were confiding in him, I can't really speak to that. The other parts, yes.

Maybe I was/am naive, or maybe I have a different outlook on life than most people do. I trust my friends. If I didn't, why would I consider them friends?

EDIT: this feels like it's becoming a side-conversation. Unless it relates back to the OP's problem, I'm not going to keep sharing my experiences. Hopefully your friend is like me and will be happy that everyone is happy.

notmetalenough on May 2012

Samael the Radiant Faced-- Official Naming, Going Nuclear, Click on the Quest, Make She Run and Guild Measurements [strike]Officer[/strike] - Clawshrimp & Co, Draenor-US

Everyone is pretty much on the right track so far with the advice, but I would also say to be honest with yourself too - you said you clicked...and I'm wondering if maybe you want it to be more than friends too.
Lets be honest - if you want her...then you can't just be friends...

Nah, you can totally be friends with someone, even if you think they're desirable. Consider attractive co-workers, attractive siblings or friends of your close friends and relatives, or people your friends are dating--even if you think the person is dateable, you often sideline those types of people as 'just friends' because the social fallout of a failed (or even a successful) romantic relationship can be detrimental to the balance of your life.

Completely disagree.
I'm friends with my ex for whom I have feelings for. The ex doesn't reciprocate. We're fantastic friends and the unrequited romantic feelings do not impede on the friendship one bit.

It sounds like you made a new friend, and she's being a SMART GIRL and befriending the friends of a potential partner. Look at all y'all, talking about the lady like she doesn't have a brain in her head. All "oooh which boyfriend should I chooooose".

And you, WildEEEP. "If you want her, you can't be just friends." What a can of worms that statement opens up. I should hope that this guy has more brains than what's in his trousers.

I say, keep doing what you're doing. Hooray for finding a tennis partner! She sounds like she enjoys your company, and if your friend is such a jealous douche that he can't trust her to hang out solo with other people, than both YOU and SHE will certainly both be enlightened.

Nah, you can totally be friends with someone, even if you think they're desirable. Consider attractive co-workers, attractive siblings or friends of your close friends and relatives, or people your friends are dating--even if you think the person is dateable, you often sideline those types of people as 'just friends' because the social fallout of a failed (or even a successful) romantic relationship can be detrimental to the balance of your life.

Eh, there is a difference between being able to evaluate someone as "desirable" and actually having some pressing urge to indulge that desire. The latter distinction should be a sign to maintain some very real distance if the status quo is going to be maintained. It's not even just a matter of resisting the temptation to instantly collapse into each other's arms. The OP could very well keep his hands off, but if he has some meaningful attraction to her, that's an invitation for some dark feelings to fester.

Completely disagree.
I'm friends with my ex for whom I have feelings for. The ex doesn't reciprocate. We're fantastic friends and the unrequited romantic feelings do not impede on the friendship one bit.

It sounds like they both reciprocate from reading the OP's description..but maybe I'm reading it wrong.
My advice just comes from seeing way too many guys convince themselves that they'll just be friends, when really, they want a date. That situation almost always ends badly, so I tossed in my two cents.

Completely disagree.
I'm friends with my ex for whom I have feelings for. The ex doesn't reciprocate. We're fantastic friends and the unrequited romantic feelings do not impede on the friendship one bit.

It sounds like they both reciprocate from reading the OP's description..but maybe I'm reading it wrong.
My advice just comes from seeing way too many guys convince themselves that they'll just be friends, when really, they want a date. That situation almost always ends badly, so I tossed in my two cents.

It depends on the outlook of both parties. Like you said, the guys you mentioned were only trying to convinced that they can be friends with their objects of affection when really they wanted more. If a person is fully realistic about the fact that it cannot happen, friendship can happen. It's not an impossibility.

If both parties have romantic feelings towards each other it would definitely be a greater challenge to remain friends and I can't say that is possible.

It's entirely possible to date a friends ex girlfriend and not have the friendship instantly deteriorate. Some people are mature enough to be able to do that, instead of dwelling on ridiculous shit. This is a lot more likely to happen if they did not date for a very long time, though.
Sentry said all that needs to be said really. Don't make any moves on this girl, don't do intimate things with her, keep running with her, sure. If you want to stay friends with your buddy and he says anything you do with this girl is making him uncomfortable, you should probably stop.
You're definitely right about her having an OKcupid profile not being your business and not telling your friend. You're not their counselor you don't need to bring up all this shit with them. Just continue being a friend to them both, and leave it at that until something happens. You seem like you've got a pretty good head on your shoulders.

It's entirely possible to date a friends ex girlfriend and not have the friendship instantly deteriorate. Some people are mature enough to be able to do that, instead of dwelling on ridiculous shit.

Maturity has absolutely nothing to do with that. It's the fact that you've developed an emotional bond both with the girl and with their friend. Telling someone that they're not mature if they can't handle something like their friend dating their ex is extremely goosey.

"At first he thought it might be a natural occurrence - maybe a rabbit. But upon closer inspection, it was clear a knife had been used. And rabbits don't carry knives."

I would go so far as to say choice 2 isn't even particularly smart, depending on how much self-control you have and how attracted you are to this girl. It's pretty much leaving the door wide open for stupid things to happen, and you're going to have to really know yourself in order for it not to go down that road.

My best friend recently started "dating" my ex from a few years ago, and let me say it has screwed with my head since the time I found out.
Now this hasn't gotten between me and my friend mind you, but if you do start dating this girl if she breaks it off with your friend, it will do some mental damage, even if it's not shown.

You WILL need your hand to angle it in properly, especially the first time.

Choice 1 is the only smart option. Hanging out with taken girls in general is never going to be a satisfying experience in the end, no matter what. I'm in an acting class and when it comes to intimate or personal scenes, I'd even say to avoid them there. It just causes so much awkwardness, unless there's nothing you find appealing about the girl I guess. Though in that case it makes intimate scene work hard to do.

Choice 1 is the only smart option. Hanging out with taken girls in general is never going to be a satisfying experience in the end, no matter what. I'm in an acting class and when it comes to intimate or personal scenes, I'd even say to avoid them there. It just causes so much awkwardness, unless there's nothing you find appealing about the girl I guess. Though in that case it makes intimate scene work hard to do.

Wait, what? You can't hang out with girls who have boyfriends or are married? That sounds like a personal issue you should work on. I have tons of female friends with significant others that I hang out with all the time. It's very satisfying, because I see them as something more than romantic potential, I see them as friends.

Esh on May 2012

"At first he thought it might be a natural occurrence - maybe a rabbit. But upon closer inspection, it was clear a knife had been used. And rabbits don't carry knives."

Well that sucks. Now that it's laid out like that, yeah it would look really horrible.

I call him friend because he's more than an aquintance. We mainly hung out in group settings, but I'm always invited to anything he throws (pool parties, birthday parties , etc) and vice versa. I usually see him once a month or so.

If you feel strongly enough for the girl, don't let someone you see once a month get in the way. The ex rule would apply to close friends I talk to or see a few times a week, but not once a month.

Choice 1 is the only smart option. Hanging out with taken girls in general is never going to be a satisfying experience in the end, no matter what. I'm in an acting class and when it comes to intimate or personal scenes, I'd even say to avoid them there. It just causes so much awkwardness, unless there's nothing you find appealing about the girl I guess. Though in that case it makes intimate scene work hard to do.

Wait, what? You can't hang out with girls who have boyfriends or are married? That sounds like a personal issue you should work on. I have tons of female friends with significant others that I hang out with all the time. It's very satisfying, because I see them as something more than romantic potential, I see them as friends.

Not saying you can't, just that if you're single you should try to avoid it. And don't insinuate you know anything about my "personal issues", please.

Choice 1 is the only smart option. Hanging out with taken girls in general is never going to be a satisfying experience in the end, no matter what. I'm in an acting class and when it comes to intimate or personal scenes, I'd even say to avoid them there. It just causes so much awkwardness, unless there's nothing you find appealing about the girl I guess. Though in that case it makes intimate scene work hard to do.

Wait, what? You can't hang out with girls who have boyfriends or are married? That sounds like a personal issue you should work on. I have tons of female friends with significant others that I hang out with all the time. It's very satisfying, because I see them as something more than romantic potential, I see them as friends.

Not saying you can't, just that if you're single you should try to avoid it. And don't insinuate you know anything about my "personal issues", please.

Why should it be avoided if your single? I'm very curious.

"At first he thought it might be a natural occurrence - maybe a rabbit. But upon closer inspection, it was clear a knife had been used. And rabbits don't carry knives."

It's entirely possible to date a friends ex girlfriend and not have the friendship instantly deteriorate. Some people are mature enough to be able to do that, instead of dwelling on ridiculous shit.

*scratch head* Having emotions is not inherently ridiculous shit. I forget which geek fallacy that is. Certainly, people can dwell on ridiculous shit. ("I dated him one time three years ago! You're NEVER allowed to date him!" kind of stuff.) But having an emotional bond, or being upset because "we're just friends" turned into "okay, sorry, turned out we did want to hump like weasels that whole time, our bad!". Or, the way I've usually seen it, when the relationship ended because the ex was a shit. Wait, Friend, you know this person was constantly screwing around behind my back/stealing from me/using drugs/hitting me and you're STILL going to date them after all that? WTF?

In the OP's case, his friend already demonstrated some possessive behavior when he picked up on the vibe between the two of them. That doesn't bode well for any "That's cool, bro, it was over between us anyway."

I think it's fair to continue to be an activity partner with this girl, and a confidant. But I also think it's fair to say that you're hitting it off well and like her at least a little bit, and that it may be smart to tell her that you can't date her while she's dating your friend. If she decides to dump him in order to see about dating you, that's probably fine. It won't feel good for your friend to be dumped, and it will feel to him like you "stole" her, which is why it's important for HER to communicate to him what's happening. You have not tried to elbow into their relationship or steal her, so your honest response should be "Look, she approached me."

It sounds like your friend is going to get dumped anyway. Don't make it worse for him by making it seem like his girlfriend is cheating on him with you. Keep it platonic and infrequent and if you do talk to her, encourage her to be honest with your friend before she moves on.

I think it's fair to continue to be an activity partner with this girl, and a confidant. But I also think it's fair to say that you're hitting it off well and like her at least a little bit, and that it may be smart to tell her that you can't date her while she's dating your friend. If she decides to dump him in order to see about dating you, that's probably fine. It won't feel good for your friend to be dumped, and it will feel to him like you "stole" her, which is why it's important for HER to communicate to him what's happening. You have not tried to elbow into their relationship or steal her, so your honest response should be "Look, she approached me."

It sounds like your friend is going to get dumped anyway. Don't make it worse for him by making it seem like his girlfriend is cheating on him with you. Keep it platonic and infrequent and if you do talk to her, encourage her to be honest with your friend before she moves on.

Yeah. You really don't come out of this with both a friend and the girl as your girlfriend. If it comes down to that (and you're not just seeing more than is there, which is possible) then you're going to have to choose.

I've dated a friend's ex and it was fine, but they had been broken up for 3 or 4 years, not days.

"The welfare of each of us is dependent fundamentally upon the welfare of all of us."

Spoiler:

"This country will not be a permanently good place for any of us to live in unless we make it a reasonably good place for all of us to live in."

"There is not a man of us who does not at times need a helping hand to be stretched out to him, and then shame upon him who will not stretch out the helping hand to his brother."

So he says. His actions demonstrate otherwise. And he has referred to him as "more than an acquaintance." So, it's a guy he's friendly with. Not necessarily a good friend who he cares about.

1) Girlfriend shows up on OP's OKCupid. Doesn't tell his friend.
2) Friend's new girlfriend tells him she's not all that interested in him anymore. OP doesn't tell his friend this.
3) Friend meets the two of them at a Jamba Juice and OP describes his friend's signs of affection as "typical guy marking his territory." What? He can't sit next to his girlfriend?
4) OP says he clicks with this girl and wants to know how to go about dating her if they break up.
5) OP says he will likely just continue spending time as friends with this girl who he "might be interested in."

Not something you do to a friend, OP. If this guy was a true friend, you would have gone over to his house to break the news after #1 happened. At that point, a friend supports his friend in what looks like a break-up. He doesn't keep that info to himself and continue spending time with this girl while secretly making plans to date her when they eventually break up.