I wasn't going to say anymore but Dan said it so right, I can't help myself. Go Dan! I agreed with every word you wrote.

I was listening to "Wait Wait, Don't Tell Me" on NPR on the way to the track. It was so funny. One guy said the worst thing about the election is poor Mitt couldn't go home and have a drink. One guy said Mitt who? Then another one said hasn't Mitt taken a look at the world today? Hell, you need a lot of drinks. I didn't use quotes because it's just a memory which is getting shorter lately.

HV I am weak arguing this thread because I am discusted in both sides. I am sick and tired of both sides with their own networks and rags. I want us all to flourish not just one side thinking they have won something while the country slowly crumbles! Me done with this thread.

(And an aside to mottoman: Dude, stop. You have been SO weak on the facts this election...most people would have stopped posting out of sheer embarassment. Just step back, really. You're too light.)

I don't owe anyone an apology. His net taxable income went from $15,205,496 to $9, 007,709 and still ended up paying over 20% of net income (per taxes). You conveniently forgot to mention the difference in the income didn't you? Mary said she pays a higher tax rate than Romney which is simply not true. Tell her to prove it and I will apologize. In any event, he sure didn't underpay like Obama has in the past. Look, I want the republicans to give the democrats everything they want by voting "present" (sound familiar) so the democrats own the total collapse. As far as mottoman goes, he is a true capitalist that has a lot to loose with the socialism being inflicted on our way of life. You see it first hand in Illinois and I will be watching from arms length. I'm thankful that we took our state senate back this election in Wisconsin so we can contine all our reforms so that the takers we have left in our state leave for Illinois.

Thanks, Terry, and you are correct that Mel owes me an apology. Mel has just shown us all what is wrong with Fox News and where people are getting their news from. All of the articles I posted come from journalists, reporters, news services, members of the press while Mel likes to get his news from Fox News and blogs.

Fox didn't have anything to do with my posts, the tax returns that I looked at is my source. In any event, he over posted his taxable income at $15,205,496 while actually having $9,007,709. He paid his fair share and then some, unlike what you and the left try to spin. He paid as high a percentage as you (if you are married filing jointly) and gave even more to charity than he paid in taxes. In my book, that is one hell of a human being.

Actually it was because of Bush that millions of acres were to be used for oil shale development. It went into effect 3 days before Obama took office. Obama just took 1.6 million acres out of play Nov. 9, 2012. The Bakken Oil fields started ramping up in 2008 and are now in full swing as North Dakota enjoys a 1% unemployment rate. Romney carried the state quite handily by 20%. Not many entitlements in North Dakota.

Let's help the conservatives out here with a prescription for improvement of their position:

1. Dump the tea party and religious right. They just make you look like a cheap, hateful group. Let them form their own party.

2. Embrace the immigrants, especially the Latinos. They are big source for improvement for our country. They want to get ahead, isn't that what the conservatives are all about?

3. Don't tell women what to do with their reproductive systems. That is up to them to determine which way they want to go. A child should be welcomed and not looked at as accident. It just means more neglected, abused children in the welfare system.

4. Look up the definition of the word: COMPROMISE! To solve our problems, yes, cuts should be made, but revenue must be generated especially from those who benefit the most in our society. Not all spending is wasteful, except for some of the wars we get into. There are real costs to running a government and they go up, like everything else.

5. Set goals that benefit all in our country. Example of a good goal: concentrate on the health and education of our children. Example of a bad goal: "Our goal is to make Obama a one-term President."

If conservatives follow these suggestions, they just might be back in power. Old white men do not constitute the power base that they once were anymore.

End of pontificating.

1.) I totally disagree you you here. Embrace God , religion, and country the way our greatest generation did (WWII era).

2.) Totally agree with you. They are Catholic, anti, abortion and share the same values as conservatives. Give all the law abiding immigrants a path to citizenship. I would then also allow every law abiding foreign national a work permit to allow them in the country for employment.

3.) A woman has a right to do what she wants with her reproductive system. She knows the consequences of spreading her legs (as does the man). If your not bright enough to take care of the problem to begin with, you certainly are not bright enough to dictate the murder of an unborn child. We should punish the abusers with vasectomy's and tube tying.

4.) Compromise is a 2 way street that won't work with either party. For you to insinuate that the gridlock is a republican issue only is delusional. I will add that the republicans should step aside and allow Obama and his cohorts full implementation of their agenda so they can own it. Just vote "present".

5.) I agree with number 5 for both parties. You have a short memory of how Bush was treated for 8 years.

I don't owe anyone an apology. His net taxable income went from $15,205,496 to $9, 007,709 and still ended up paying over 20% of net income (per taxes). You conveniently forgot to mention the difference in the income didn't you?

Maryann, honestly, the stuff you quote and state as fact is so ridiculous that it does not merit a response. When you post articles that claim Romney paid $1.9 million in taxes and his actual released returned shows he paid $3.2 million; and you still sit in denial , you are totally helpless. Now I know how Jesse Jr. and his indicted cohorts get re-elected.

* You said his "released return" showed he paid $3.2 million in taxes. This is untrue; Romney estimated his 2011 taxes as $3.2 million (early in 2012), and later in the year his released return showed $1.9 million.

Based on this information alone, you are wrong, and therefore owe Mary Ann an apology; bringing in other numbers about income and net tax percentage after you made the erroneous (and sarcastic) post in question doesn't change anything.

HV I am weak arguing this thread because I am discusted in both sides. I am sick and tired of both sides with their own networks and rags. I want us all to flourish not just one side thinking they have won something while the country slowly crumbles!

* You said his "released return" showed he paid $3.2 million in taxes. This is untrue; Romney estimated his 2011 taxes as $3.2 million (early in 2012), and later in the year his released return showed $1.9 million.

Based on this information alone, you are wrong, and therefore owe Mary Ann an apology; bringing in other numbers about income and net tax percentage after you made the erroneous (and sarcastic) post in question doesn't change anything.

Your problem is the same as always. You fail to go to the beginning of the debate to get the true point. If you think the issue is the amount only, then you are extremely misguided. Go back to the beginning to get a better read. If you would feel better if I say I apologize to Mary Ann for using the estimated return instead of the actual return then accept my apology. I still want to point out that the point I was trying to make remains the same. Romney does not pay less in taxes than Mary Ann, and that he paid well over 40% in taxes and charity based on his taxable income.

From a Wall Street Journal article from November 7, 2012, written by David Weidner, referring to the U.S. elections, "Wall Street, as usual, spent an enormous amount of money - more than $400 million in 2012 - and didn't emerge with much to show for it." "Not the least of which is the defeat of Mitt Romney, a former private-equity executive who promised to cut or at least review financial regulation while offering more tax breaks for investors. Mr. Romney was perhaps the best hope for Wall Street this fall. He was one of their own, so tantalizingly close to the biggest trading floor of all."

The bottom line is Mitt paid 14.1% federal income taxes in 2011, according to his campaign, and that includes the deductions he got on his charitable contributions. (he made $13.7 million and paid $1.94 million in federal income taxes - no way does that amount to 20%). In fact, he could have claimed more deductions on the charitable contributions but didn't because his tax rate would have fallen below 13%. He didn't want that to happen because he has said he has paid at least 13% each year for the last ten years. He has three years to claim those additional deductions if he chooses so he eventually may pay less than 13% for 2011. So, Mitt has a lower tax rate than the middle class.

Here is the post that caught my interest. I guess Mary Ann didn't know that Wall Street backed Obama over McCain last election. Then she goes on to state that his next taxable income was $13.7 million after deductions (not true on either return). Then she acts like it was a crime that he opted not to take all his deductions so he could pay more in taxes...isn't that what you lefties want?

Your problem is the same as always. You fail to go to the beginning of the debate to get the true point. If you think the issue is the amount only, then you are extremely misguided.

LOL. I'm the one raising the issue here -- you got the very fact wrong that you called Mary Ann on (and then chastised and insulted her about it, to boot) -- and now you want to try to tell me the issue I raised is something more, or something different?

I was listening to "Wait Wait, Don't Tell Me" on NPR on the way to the track. It was so funny. One guy said the worst thing about the election is poor Mitt couldn't go home and have a drink. One guy said Mitt who? Then another one said hasn't Mitt taken a look at the world today? Hell, you need a lot of drinks. I didn't use quotes because it's just a memory which is getting shorter lately.

Oh...You mean NPR (national Public Radio) that is funded by the taxpayers and is suppose to be non-partisan? We need to stop funding that left wing tool since they are partial in the political arena. Another corrupt waste of taxpayer dollars, just like Solyndra & ACORN.

LOL. I'm the one raising the issue here -- you got the very fact wrong that you called Mary Ann on (and then chastised and insulted her about it, to boot) -- and now you want to try to tell me the issue I raised is something more, or something different?

(In other words, I don't understand the issue I raised? Really?)

Even Fox admits their mistakes when called on them.

Poor form, Mel. Fail.

No HV...as usual, you only want to see half of the equation...something you;re good at.

HV, thanks for clearing up the confusion regarding Romney's 2011 taxes paid and for your support. Mel, I can see it's difficult for you to apologize for unwarranted name-calling but I guess your admission of your being wrong is as much as you can muster but, in my opinion, an apology demonstrates accountability. Following is Mitt's 2011 tax return which includes his request for an extension and estimated taxes, as well as taxes due. This was filed with the IRS on September 21, 2012. I'm providing this just in case any other questions come up.

Here's a portion of the next link from the Deparment of Justice: "WASHINGTON – An attorney for a South Carolina health care device company, Signalife, was arrested on Dec. 18, 2011, at Los Angeles International Airport on charges related to his alleged role in a multi-million dollar market manipulation fraud scheme, Assistant Attorney General Lanny A. Breuer of the Justice Department’s Criminal Division announced today.

An indictment unsealed yesterday in U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Florida charges attorney Mitchell J. Stein, 53, of Hidden Hills, Calif., and Boca Raton, Fla., with one count of conspiracy to commit mail fraud and wire fraud, three counts of mail fraud, three counts of wire fraud, three counts of securities fraud, three counts of money laundering and one count of conspiracy to obstruct justice. The indictment also seeks forfeiture of the proceeds of the offenses.

The indictment alleges that Stein engaged in a scheme to artificially inflate the stock price of Signalife Inc. by creating the false impression of sales activity for the company. Signalife, now known as Heart Tronics, was a publicly traded company that purportedly sold electronic heart monitoring devices. According to the indictment, Stein’s wife held approximately 85 percent of the shares of Signalife."

HV, thanks for clearing up the confusion regarding Romney's 2011 taxes paid and for your support. Mel, I can see it's difficult for you to apologize for unwarranted name-calling but I guess your admission of your being wrong is as much as you can muster but, in my opinion, an apology demonstrates accountability. Following is Mitt's 2011 tax return which includes his request for an extension and estimated taxes, as well as taxes due. This was filed with the IRS on September 21, 2012. I'm providing this just in case any other questions come up.

An apology is in order if you are correct on the argument, and you are not. I did use the estimated return instead of the actual return, however, either one substantiates my point. You can read the explanation I previously gave you above. If I called you any names I most certainly didn't mean to and I do apologize for that if you thought I did. The rest of your post about indictments is confusing me. What are you trying to insinuate? You are posting year old articles when you should be looking at current events like this: http://counterpsyops.com/2012/10/28/43-trillion-lawsuit-against-holder-geithner-corzine-more/

Once again i didnt vote for either of the "big 2" candidates in this years election(my vote went to johnson) due to feeling neither one was worthy. so like nixon said guess its "4 more years" of taking it up the a$s for our country. obama didnt do sh1t the first 4 and i hope im wrong but i cant see him doing anything the next 4.........lol i guess the excuse will be 8 years wasnt enough time. notice the drop of 300+ in the market the day after the election? and Romney? well it shows you just how "smart" him and his people were in blowing that campaign, thats basically what he had to do in order to lose to a guy who did a very sub par job the past 4 years.

dont worry folks, when obamas approval rating again hits a all time low during this term he can "conveniently and coincidentally" roll out a dead bin laden for the american public............oh wait he already did that once

Once again i didnt vote for either of the "big 2" candidates in this years election(my vote went to johnson) due to feeling neither one was worthy. so like nixon said guess its "4 more years" of taking it up the a$s for our country. obama didnt do sh1t the first 4 and i hope im wrong but i cant see him doing anything the next 4.........lol i guess the excuse will be 8 years wasnt enough time. notice the drop of 300+ in the market the day after the election? and Romney? well it shows you just how "smart" him and his people were in blowing that campaign, thats basically what he had to do in order to lose to a guy who did a very sub par job the past 4 years.

dont worry folks, when obamas approval rating again hits a all time low during this term he can "conveniently and coincidentally" roll out a dead bin laden for the american public............oh wait he already did that once

My sentiments exactly...and i won't waste the next four yrs worrying about stuff i have no control over - it is what it is.....we gotta pull down our big kids pants , bend over and take it.....or go be an illegal in mexico.....