Post by Gamingdevil on Aug 21, 2018 9:00:49 GMT

There are loads of cookie-cutter Asphyxious 3 (9 Slayers), Denny 2 (DJ + 5-6 Slayers) and Skarre 1 (4 lights, 2 WE, Banes) out there, but also some interesting lists here and there. Lots of Slaughter Fleet as well, even though it hasn't been out that long.

Rather nice spread of casters in general though and still lots of Denny 1 and some Ghost Fleet, even post-nerfs.

"Surprisingly" Infernal Machines is the only theme not represented, who'd have thunk it?

Post by Grimolf on Aug 21, 2018 17:23:45 GMT

I’m still looking through the lists - trying to find the list where someone is playing Denny3. That’s pretty cool that she’s seeing play at the WTC. Even though we have a few really dominant casters (Asphyxious3, Skarre1, Denny2, Denny1), we still have a deep bench.

Post by Grimolf on Aug 21, 2018 17:33:29 GMT

And, while many people are remarking on the vast number of Slayers, I’m not so sure that list will do as well overall as people think (I say this here, in the Cryx forum, to avoid getting flamed). I think it’s a great skew list that a team wants to show, but most teams have likely teched for it and have at least one response. It may force some pairings, which is why you’d bring it, but it’s not overpowering. And, high caliber players (like those at the WTC) have faced Asphyxious3 with 9 Slayers and know what to do against it. I’m not convinced it will steam role people at the WTC and put up amazing stats. That’s just my hot take - having not played Asphyxious3 9 Slayers myself (although I’ve played against it and struggled, which I attribute to the fact that I didn’t have a plan for it).

Post by postindirty on Aug 22, 2018 1:30:03 GMT

WTC is a wide mix of players from all over the show, its only the 'best of the best' in the case of some countries. Or at the very least they try to send their best

Why I say this is because the list itself requires practice to get it humming right. I'm willing to bet there people who have just scraped together some slayers just because its the boogeyman list to bring, where they may not have actually put in the reps in that are necessary

Post by Deller on Aug 22, 2018 3:06:17 GMT

Not even one infernal machines list? Wow, I am surprised no one went for the recursion boat with them, but I guess ghost fleet does that better.

I’m not. The only Infernal Machines list that’s even worth a damn prior to Deneghra0 being released is the Goreshade2 Brute Thrall $pam. With Brute Thralls being as $$$ expensive $$$ as they are, and the models having 0 playability in basically any other list I’m not shocked at all that nobody’s bothering with it.

Slaughter Fleet, Ghost Fleet, & IM are seeing the amount of Play I expected. The one I’m shocked about is Scourge. I expected to see a lot more Scourge.

Post by Gamingdevil on Aug 22, 2018 6:42:44 GMT

Deller I find myself always getting bored when building Scourge lists as it's always "start with 2 units of Raiders, add min unit of Witches, some Gunslingers, solos, fill out battle group" and the only casters that really make it hit hard enough are Asphyxious 1 and Denny 1. They also do this for Ghost Fleet which has a different niche than "I kill all your infantry and ping your caster to death if you're jack heavy".

postindirty definitely true. Most people try their best, but some countries kind of send a team just to represent and they might often be beer and pretzel guys. There's of course nothing wrong with that and it's a blast to play against, but it puts things into perspective

Grimolf also true, I've spotted people having Gaspy 9 Slayers in the alternate lists (so backups), probably just as a scare tactic and some teams have identical lists in the alternates (which is actually illegal) which also skews the results.I also agree that there are plenty of counters in the meta (I say this in the Cryx forum ) but the list does pose wildly different questions than most Cryx list, so it shifts more pairings into a list chicken. Unfortunately we will never know exact pairing processes, matchups, list choices and results, so it will be impossible to glean useful data from this, so the community will always clamor for nerfs. I just hope PP will do the right thing, even if they do decide to step in. I'm quite sure they will do the latter, and it may be justified, I just hope they do something appropriate.

As a side note: I feel pretty good about being the specialest of snow flakes with being the only Terminus DH + Skarre 1 BI

Post by grotsnik on Aug 22, 2018 9:05:44 GMT

Not even one infernal machines list? Wow, I am surprised no one went for the recursion boat with them, but I guess ghost fleet does that better.

I’m not. The only Infernal Machines list that’s even worth a damn prior to Deneghra0 being released is the Goreshade2 Brute Thrall $pam. With Brute Thralls being as $$$ expensive $$$ as they are, and the models having 0 playability in basically any other list I’m not shocked at all that nobody’s bothering with it.

Slaughter Fleet, Ghost Fleet, & IM are seeing the amount of Play I expected. The one I’m shocked about is Scourge. I expected to see a lot more Scourge.

Same oponion over here, there is no reason whatsoevere to play IM and it hasnt been one ever since DH got out. Sadly I dont see PP too concerned about it, and its pretty disappointing seeing how menoth and now skorne are getting better recursion with their battle engines than we do with a colossal in a zombie based theme... Pagani says, "as long as there is a large enough group that likes something im ok with it" but i havent seen a helldiver since the begining of mk3 for example, so lets just hope we someday get a QOL cid like ret got and meanwhile just keep playing with the other themes as most people clearly have been doing (and will keep doing)

Post by greyknightv6 on Aug 22, 2018 9:39:28 GMT

I’m still looking through the lists - trying to find the list where someone is playing Denny3. That’s pretty cool that she’s seeing play at the WTC. Even though we have a few really dominant casters (Asphyxious3, Skarre1, Denny2, Denny1), we still have a deep bench.

Yeh, about that Denny3 list...

It's fairly heavily tech'd for a couple of matchups, and, it's been doing really well into them (I'd sooner not say what they are, but PM me and I'll discuss it with you).

Post by Gamingdevil on Aug 22, 2018 9:47:29 GMT

It's fairly heavily tech'd for a couple of matchups, and, it's been doing really well into them (I'd sooner not say what they are, but PM me and I'll discuss it with you).

That said, it's been doing solidly in my pairing

Goreshade 3 infinite recursion with a solid ranged assassination threat has a few weaknesses, the main one would be trolls (both BoH and SotN) in which this Deneghra build would be absolutely bonkers in ("hey Champions, you can't charge, heal or tough, gg")Other problematic RFP lists are also living based, so same deal, and lists that have enough output to chew through all those pirates often have battle engines where hopefully Kharybdis can Blind one and focused shooting can take out the other.Heavy shooting lists that could threaten Goreshade's big ass will have a hard time dealing with the cloud walls from the Slaughter Fleet and Denny's DEF 17.She's also a massive bully with a credible shooting assassination (Scourge), so seems to complement the other list as well.

Post by streetpizza on Aug 22, 2018 14:13:59 GMT

I’m not. The only Infernal Machines list that’s even worth a damn prior to Deneghra0 being released is the Goreshade2 Brute Thrall $pam. With Brute Thralls being as $$$ expensive $$$ as they are, and the models having 0 playability in basically any other list I’m not shocked at all that nobody’s bothering with it.

Slaughter Fleet, Ghost Fleet, & IM are seeing the amount of Play I expected. The one I’m shocked about is Scourge. I expected to see a lot more Scourge.

Same oponion over here, there is no reason whatsoevere to play IM and it hasnt been one ever since DH got out. Sadly I dont see PP too concerned about it, and its pretty disappointing seeing how menoth and now skorne are getting better recursion with their battle engines than we do with a colossal in a zombie based theme... Pagani says, "as long as there is a large enough group that likes something im ok with it" but i havent seen a helldiver since the begining of mk3 for example, so lets just hope we someday get a QOL cid like ret got and meanwhile just keep playing with the other themes as most people clearly have been doing (and will keep doing)

You do realize that Cryx got a big QOL CID with the DH CID right? Your actual release CID was the Broken Coast CID cycle in which cryx got more releases than any other faction CID to date.

Frankly none of this bothers me but if you're going to complain about something at least make sure you've got actual grounds for complaint.

Post by Deller on Aug 22, 2018 14:26:55 GMT

Things usually get nerfed after the WTC, congratz Cryx you just put yourself back on that list

Things usually get nerfed after Warmachine Weekend. It very easy for things that are mearly strong to appear utterly broken in team environments when they can easily dodge their problem matchups. The game isn’t balanced around team tournaments.

Post by Grimolf on Aug 22, 2018 17:29:42 GMT

As a side note: I feel pretty good about being the specialest of snow flakes with being the only Terminus DH + Skarre 1 BI

Gamingdevil : Thanks. And, your pairing does look interesting. I missed that my first time through - most people aren’t taking Skarre1 in BI and almost nobody is running Terminus! Good choices! Any comments on why this pairing? What work is it doing to help your team?