So its not right to chant "this is bull shit" when Joey wins, but its perfectly fine to chant "fuck you Hero"? each and every show?

People were chanting "This is Bullshit" because Joey has been doing comedy matches for the past few years and fans no longer expect Joey to win serious matches. I'm a Hero fan, so I yelled "This is Bullshit" because I wanted Hero to win, thats about it. I had no political agenda, I'm not even from California, I was just marking out for Hero so no malicious intent on my part. Joey is one of the owners and he put himself over at BOLA, it happens in wrestling all the time, trust me I've seen it a lot from John Zandig back in a day lol Do I like it? No, but its not a big deal.

Do I believe Joey deserves to win, yes I think he does, he busted his ass to put California wrestling scene on the map and for that I respect him very much. Joey is also one of the PWG originals so its always good when the founding fathers are recognized. Like I said no politics here for me.

Overall BOLA was a great show, just as good as last year's. My favorite match of the weekend was Six Man Tag on night two.

Couple things that made this years event seem underwhelming were:-No actual trophy for winner-No opening ceremony with all the tournament participants taking the big group photo-No exclusive T-shirts for the wrestlers (or fans) listing all the participants, etc.I know those are little things but I always thought it helped make BOLA look like a legitimate top notch wrestling tournament.As far as the actual wrestling and shows overall-small quiet crowds. Why? Anyone have any ideas why PWG went from ridiculously packed attendance to lower than normal show standards for one of the year's biggest events? Did the beer prices go up? Is that why fans sat on their hands most of the night?-I heard the Bucks got called to go to TNA PPV with very little notice, forcing PWG to come up with some way of getting them both out of the tourney quickly so they could make their flight. Props to them for once again being forced to book on the fly and making things work.-The Roddy-London match... I agree that it was ridiculous, I was not a fan of it. I felt a little insulted as a fan during it... I dont mind comedy, even dick comedy can get a chuckle, but it was, as Bencicio Del Toro said in Fear and Loathing, "Too much too much." They are capable of so much better. Maybe thats why Paul is getting stuck in tag matches. That match had his weird fingerprints all over it.-I heard the locker room looked like a hospital ward both nights, with more wrestlers than ever icing shoulders, knees, elbows, etc...-Everyone seemed to have an off weekend even the refs, who made some weird non-calls both nights... miscommunication?-Crowd seemed particularly smarky in a bad way, more jeering and non kayfabe shit being thrown out more than usual. Seems funny how many of the "smart" fans are the ones who should be more appreciative of what they are seeing but then turm into the most critical and negatively vocal when their own fantasy booking is not played out.I mean, that's basically what it was, everyone wanted CC and Hero to meet in the finals, and when their predictions were squashed they got mad and cried foul. VERY SIMILAR to what turned everyone on the Bucks as another poster previously brought up.Overall though I liked the show.... not as good as past BOLAS but a great event nonetheless. I love Joey winning, and it makes sense in every aspect. The Final match was great... RICOCHET was really impressive, I hope he comes back. He bumps and sells really well, and pulls off some insane shit. PLEASE COME BACK!... Dammit I mised Tozawa-Hero but everyone I talked to said it was definitely best match of the weekend. Cant wait to see it on DVD. Daniels-Hero from Night 1 was epic as well, Daniels worked hard, did not mail it in as he has been accused of doing in the earlier PWG years.

I didn't get why everyone was upset that Hero didn't win. I mean what good would that have done? he just had a title shot the last show, he's totally over with the crowd. I'm not a huge Ryan fan ( I was pulling for Gatson to win it) but maybe they are trying to make him their star. my reasoning behind why a small crowd was it was the first of the month probably a lot of people had rent/mortgage due a long with other bills so they probably only opted for night 2 which drew a lot bigger crowd. I thought the 6 man tag was awesome great energy and always good to see Goodtime. Hero vs Towaza was definitely the best of match of night 2 runner up I think was Roddy vs Claudio (was very surprised to see Roddy eliminated thought he would make the finals again). I don't get the knock on London I thought his and Roddy's match was good for what it worth. I was disappointed that Daniels didn't return for night 2, I don't really understand why book the guy for just 1 night (kinda of tired of his "better man won" shtick) would have like to seen him in atleast a singles match for night 2.

overall I thought it was good show especially for the price you think got around 8 hours of great wrestling for the price of 1 wwe PPV which half of it's talking. I'm definitely already counting the days till the next show, what can I say I got the PWG bug or is PWG STD

I don't know why people are shitting on London vs Strong match, I thought that match was great, although it started out as comedy, it was a long match which featured a lot of great technical wrestling, may be people were too focused on the fake cock, well since I like women, I wasn't watching it, I was watching the wrestling part of the match which like I said was pretty damn good.

Also I didn't think the crowd was small, the building was still full and for once I could actually walk up to the bar without stumbling over people, this was a perfect crowd number given the size of the venue. Do you guys really want to have as many people there as they did at Seven? That was a freeking violation of a fire code and a miserable experience in a very hot and crowded building, I personally hated the atmosphere of the Seven.

Also I don't think fans were too quiet or non involved. Most fans chanted and cheered as they usually do, and they chanted some funny shit as well, instead of just putting themselves over as they did at Seven.

Not every match has to be an immitation of ROH with millions of near pin falls, and this is why I liked BOLA, it was typical PWG style, hard hitting and technical. But I guess some fans always want to see "ROHask" shows, I personally love PWG the way it is now.

I attended the first night and had a great time. This was my 2nd PWG show and would love to see more. I live in Ohio and travel for business and have luckily been in the LA area two times over the last few months when a PWG show was taking place. CC / Richochet and Hero / Daniels were my favorite matches from the first night. It sounds like I missed some great stuff on the 2nd night.

In case anybody was wondering, myself and the guy next to me started counting the Hero elbows. And yes, 19 elbows is way too much. If it's supposed to be his finisher, why did he keep having to do it? People complain that Richards spams kicks and Roddy spams chops (which they do), but they aren't supposed to be finishing moves; they're set-up moves.In Kayfabe terms, if Hero's elbow is supposed to be so deadly, why did Joey Ryan take and kick out of the 13 that hit his head and in the grand scheme of things no-sell Hero's elbows to his shoulder? And yes, Joey went overboard with the kicks as well, but the difference between Hero and Joey is that Hero's been going elbow happy for more than a year and a half now and not just one night or a few shows here and there. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of Hero, but he's better than this. I love when he throws his kicks, Liger Bomb, most of his cravate stuff, and the lucha stuff he does from time to time. It's why whenever he would pass near me, I would say, "Chris, you're better than this."

AmericanWolvesMark wrote:In case anybody was wondering, myself and the guy next to me started counting the Hero elbows. And yes, 19 elbows is way too much. If it's supposed to be his finisher, why did he keep having to do it? People complain that Richards spams kicks and Roddy spams chops (which they do), but they aren't supposed to be finishing moves; they're set-up moves.In Kayfabe terms, if Hero's elbow is supposed to be so deadly, why did Joey Ryan take and kick out of the 13 that hit his head and in the grand scheme of things no-sell Hero's elbows to his shoulder? And yes, Joey went overboard with the kicks as well, but the difference between Hero and Joey is that Hero's been going elbow happy for more than a year and a half now and not just one night or a few shows here and there. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of Hero, but he's better than this. I love when he throws his kicks, Liger Bomb, most of his cravate stuff, and the lucha stuff he does from time to time. It's why whenever he would pass near me, I would say, "Chris, you're better than this."

Again, it's just my opinion so take it with a grain of salt.

First of all on the first night when Hero wrestled Daniels, Hero barely used any elbows, so please don't lie ok!

Secondly, Hero's finisher is not just an elbow, it is called the "blow of death" which is a hangman's neckbreaker spinning elbow combination. So his regular elbows have nothing to do with his finisher. Hero is wrestling a very Noah style matches which are awesome. If you really pay attention to the match, he never really throws the same elbow twice, very effective and realistic wrestling from the best in the world Chris Hero.

AmericanWolvesMark wrote:In case anybody was wondering, myself and the guy next to me started counting the Hero elbows. And yes, 19 elbows is way too much. If it's supposed to be his finisher, why did he keep having to do it? People complain that Richards spams kicks and Roddy spams chops (which they do), but they aren't supposed to be finishing moves; they're set-up moves.In Kayfabe terms, if Hero's elbow is supposed to be so deadly, why did Joey Ryan take and kick out of the 13 that hit his head and in the grand scheme of things no-sell Hero's elbows to his shoulder? And yes, Joey went overboard with the kicks as well, but the difference between Hero and Joey is that Hero's been going elbow happy for more than a year and a half now and not just one night or a few shows here and there. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of Hero, but he's better than this. I love when he throws his kicks, Liger Bomb, most of his cravate stuff, and the lucha stuff he does from time to time. It's why whenever he would pass near me, I would say, "Chris, you're better than this."

Again, it's just my opinion so take it with a grain of salt.

First of all on the first night when Hero wrestled Daniels, Hero barely used any elbows, so please don't lie ok!

Secondly, Hero's finisher is not just an elbow, it is called the "blow of death" which is a hangman's neckbreaker spinning elbow combination. So his regular elbows have nothing to do with his finisher. Hero is wrestling a very Noah style matches which are awesome. If you really pay attention to the match, he never really throws the same elbow twice, very effective and realistic wrestling from the best in the world Chris Hero.

Ok, I'll give you Saturday night. He was pretty great on Saturday and his elbow meant something since it led directly to the finish(which was very random and disappointing not based on who won, just on how suddenly daniels tapped right when I felt Hero and Daniels had gotten into a good groove). And last time I checked, he was still finishing people off with his standard roaring elbow in ROH and Japan. And yes he throws the same elbow more than twice. I remember that sequence on Sunday where he hit Joey with three straight elbows and they were all the same spin to build momentum and hit type elbows. Again, I don't hate Hero, I would just like him vary his moveset a little bit more. He's getting better at it, but he still needs to cut back on the elbows is all.

I was surprised at the small crowd (in BOLA standards) for both nights, but than I realized that it was Labor Day weekend and when I put that into consideration it made a lot of sense as to why more people didn't show up.

Chris Hero Vs.Tozawa, I wasn't a big fan of Tozawa based on his previous outings in PWG, but he definitely impressed me with this match, and I was one of the many who got out of my seat during the one particular sequence in the match and showed 'em my appreciation. I don't know if Hero was the one who brought that out of Tozawa or what, but I hope he has more showings like the one he had that night.

Ricochet was definitely a breathe of fresh air; high spots, funny, sells well...he's A-OK in my book and I would love to see him back in PWG

Claudio was the only one from my wish list that got a spot in the tournament and boy did he make me proud. He's improved his wrestling skills A LOT since I last saw him in PWG and to say that he was impressive during BOLA weekend would be an understatement. The match he had with Ricochet was sick (2nd best match of BOLA imo) and I hope to see him back in PWG very soon.

Chuck Taylor and the Awful Waffle he performed on Ricochet was SO SICK! it couldn't have been better, it was f'n perfect! MOTT (move of the tournament) imo.

Hero VS. Joey was a good, hard fought battle. The only knock I have on this match was that at one point the only two moves that were being executed were the superkick(Joey) and the roaring elbow(Hero)...it got a big repetitive, I'm not gonna lie, but overall it was a really good match.

It was a very good BOLA and I enjoyed it a lot (especially night 2). Thanks to PWG and all the wrestlers for putting on a great show.

AmericanWolvesMark wrote:In case anybody was wondering, myself and the guy next to me started counting the Hero elbows. And yes, 19 elbows is way too much. If it's supposed to be his finisher, why did he keep having to do it? People complain that Richards spams kicks and Roddy spams chops (which they do), but they aren't supposed to be finishing moves; they're set-up moves.In Kayfabe terms, if Hero's elbow is supposed to be so deadly, why did Joey Ryan take and kick out of the 13 that hit his head and in the grand scheme of things no-sell Hero's elbows to his shoulder? And yes, Joey went overboard with the kicks as well, but the difference between Hero and Joey is that Hero's been going elbow happy for more than a year and a half now and not just one night or a few shows here and there. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of Hero, but he's better than this. I love when he throws his kicks, Liger Bomb, most of his cravate stuff, and the lucha stuff he does from time to time. It's why whenever he would pass near me, I would say, "Chris, you're better than this."

Again, it's just my opinion so take it with a grain of salt.

First of all on the first night when Hero wrestled Daniels, Hero barely used any elbows, so please don't lie ok!

Secondly, Hero's finisher is not just an elbow, it is called the "blow of death" which is a hangman's neckbreaker spinning elbow combination. So his regular elbows have nothing to do with his finisher. Hero is wrestling a very Noah style matches which are awesome. If you really pay attention to the match, he never really throws the same elbow twice, very effective and realistic wrestling from the best in the world Chris Hero.

Ok, I'll give you Saturday night. He was pretty great on Saturday and his elbow meant something since it led directly to the finish(which was very random and disappointing not based on who won, just on how suddenly daniels tapped right when I felt Hero and Daniels had gotten into a good groove). And last time I checked, he was still finishing people off with his standard roaring elbow in ROH and Japan. And yes he throws the same elbow more than twice. I remember that sequence on Sunday where he hit Joey with three straight elbows and they were all the same spin to build momentum and hit type elbows. Again, I don't hate Hero, I would just like him vary his moveset a little bit more. He's getting better at it, but he still needs to cut back on the elbows is all.

Ok American Wolves, let me ask you a question, and believe me I'm not asking this to put you down or insult you; Do you understand strong style wrestling?

On the crowd size each night, which was a bit below sold out, I think CrOwNMeKiNG23 is correct: Labor Day weekend. Last get away for a lot of people in the summer. I know one regular who hipped me to PWG was out of town. Probably the case for others. But of a catch-22. It's a good weekend to run it because even with the long shows, people had Monday to recoup. Also avoided running Friday night. But there are going to be people out of town or with other commitments on a holiday weekend.

The crapping on Joey for beating Claudio was pretty jaw dropping. I've been to shows in Japan, Mexico and across the US. I've seen fans pissed off with results, sometimes because the promotion wanted that anger and on occassion when the fans just tured on something. I don't think I've ever seen something quite like that. Usually when you see something like that, it's contained to one match: once the wrestler the fans have crapped on is out of the ring, the show moves on. It can kill/deaden a show so the rest is flat, but because this was a tourney you had something far worse: Joey having to come back out, and having to go over. It pretty much trashed a solid main event because 3/4 of the crowd didn't want Joey to be in there. A lot of credit to Hero and Joey for trying to get the fans into it. Some of it didn't work, such as the "sympathy juice" which the crowd just seemed to take as manipulative and cheap. Some of it did work, as the fans were into it to a degree down the stretch... but mostly hoping Hero would win. If Hero had gone over, whatever bad taste most of the fans had over the Joey-Claudio finish would have been washed out. If there was ever a time for the powers in the back to call an audible, if they didn't get it after the Claudio match (which they really should have), once they were 5-10 minutes into the Final they should have sent word out to change the finish. Perhaps have gone in with a Plan B: if the crowd was crapping on Joey similar to what we saw after the Claudio match, and the workers weren't able to fully pull them back in, flip over to Hero winning. Then deal with the booking issues (Hero just having a title shot against Davey as others mentioned) afterwards. But how ofter do bookers and workers every do something like that, or are in situations like this.

I feel sorry for Joey. He had four solid performances. The QF with Austin was a good match, strong on storyline with the shoulder being worked on, and a very good finish that Austin sold his ass off for to perfection (one of the single best things of both nights). On paper, going through Austin, Claudio and Hero on the second night would put Joey over strong as the next challenger. As others point out, he's been in PWG forver, been the Champ, been in BOLA... it's not insane to have him win a BOLA. But that "on paper" ran into Claudio being super over, seeming to run neck-and-neck with Hero as the person the crowd wanted to see win the whole thing. In hindsight perhaps it could have been booked differently to avoid Joey going through Claudio, and instead someone else take the heat for knocking him out. But who could have guessed that fan reaction? And who in the tourney other than Generico or Hero in that same Semifinal spot could have beaten Claudio and not gotten crapped on? Just really sad.

AmericanWolvesMark wrote:Ok, I'll give you Saturday night. He was pretty great on Saturday and his elbow meant something since it led directly to the finish(which was very random and disappointing not based on who won, just on how suddenly daniels tapped right when I felt Hero and Daniels had gotten into a good groove). And last time I checked, he was still finishing people off with his standard roaring elbow in ROH and Japan. And yes he throws the same elbow more than twice. I remember that sequence on Sunday where he hit Joey with three straight elbows and they were all the same spin to build momentum and hit type elbows. Again, I don't hate Hero, I would just like him vary his moveset a little bit more. He's getting better at it, but he still needs to cut back on the elbows is all.

Do you count every move everyone does? He can't win with people like you. In the first three matches, very few elbows, but in the last he went crazy, but it wasn't weird, it fit the match. Some people do certain moves alot, and I don't see people counting every god damn move other people do. It isn't a big deal, it's nitpicking as people search for some reason to get upset. You weren't yelling out each one he did in the other matches when there were less, and you weren't counting when Roddy chopped, which is common for him. Hero's style is that instead of lots of punches or kicks or other strikes, his is an elbow. For some reason, people can't get past that, and it really baffles me that fans want to harp on it. He had arguably two of the best matches of the show (vs Daniels and vs Tozawa) and here you are focusing on the elbows he threw, which were not incongruent or out of place. It seems to me like you either are looking for a reason to complain, or to get attention in the crowd because you so cleverly can insult a wrestler's work.

jdw wrote:

krayzie Bone wrote:Ok American Wolves, let me ask you a question, and believe me I'm not asking this to put you down or insult you; Do you understand strong style wrestling?

I didn't know that Hero based his wrestling on Inoki. I learn something knew every day.

John

If you are the same jdw I'm thinking of, you know enough about Japanese wrestling to know that you do not have to be based on Inoki solely to be a strong style wrestler.

Loved all of BOLA, sucked without shirts of course but the AC and food was a plus. Larry wanted a can that I was going to recycle, I mean REALLY wanted it damned near try to take it from me. Still give my highest respect to each and every wrestler for each and every match. Thank you.