I am trying to go back to Church after a long time and I am amazed at the amount of support for gay ‘marriage’, abortion, contraception and porn from people who go to church regularly.

Isn’t the Bible clear on such issues? I have been told by some that the Church needs to evolve and be open to new ideas.

Is it safe to say these people are no longer Christians if they reject the institution of marriage and sanctity of life? Christianity cannot survive without marriage and the Bible is very clear on its purpose and meaning of it.

Finally, is there any good book/documentary you would recommend on we ended up in such a sad situation? I was reading about the 45 goals of communism and I find it amazing how so many goals have been accomplished.

Because they don’t live a unity of life (unity of life is the human is nor foreign to the divine , to have fully Christian attitude.) Why? Because they don’t truly know God . And of course the social pressure and “what would the people think of me” like if they belong to this world. :shrug:

they need to fear the Lord, form their conscience and not be tolerant of those things.

Okay, the formal welcome came and went. Now for your question: there are many who are culturally Catholic, but are anything but. They tend to dissent on anything and everything. I generally have decided they belong in one category: unfaithful. I don’t care to join them though as a convert I did receive an invitation to join in their rebellion. I declined and decided faithful was how I was going to roll. That made me a trouble maker from the get-go which is fine for me as it seems to suit my personality better. (Gadflies Anonymous is now forming though we haven’t decided if we even want to take certain steps to stop annoying people and making them think.) So decide quickly which “side” you’ll be on and get on with the business of letting Jesus save your miserable self. I highly recommend the faithful side of the divide.

I am trying to go back to Church after a long time and I am amazed at the amount of support for gay ‘marriage’, abortion, contraception and porn from people who go to church regularly.

Isn’t the Bible clear on such issues? I have been told by some that the Church needs to evolve and be open to new ideas.

Is it safe to say these people are no longer Christians if they reject the institution of marriage and sanctity of life? Christianity cannot survive without marriage and the Bible is very clear on its purpose and meaning of it.

Finally, is there any good book/documentary you would recommend on we ended up in such a sad situation? I was reading about the 45 goals of communism and I find it amazing how so many goals have been accomplished.

Christians do not stop being Christians because they do not follow Church or biblical teachings. If that was the case, anyone who sins would be “no longer Christian.”

Christians do not stop being Christians because they do not follow Church or biblical teachings. If that was the case, anyone who sins would be “no longer Christian.”

Yes. To back this up, I add that what makes you a Christian is to have been baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

And I quote an apologist of CAF

Oneness Pentecostals are primarily considered to be non-Christians because they do not have a valid baptism: They baptize in the name of Jesus only, rather than in the name of the Trinity (“Father, Son, and Holy Spirit”). Ontologically speaking, they are not Christians because they do not have a valid baptism. Theologically speaking, they deny the Trinity and thus do not hold to classical Christian orthodoxy.

It is a valid baptism that makes a person Christian. If a person is baptized validly with the proper matter (water), the proper formula (“In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit”), and with the proper intention (to baptize), that person is ontologically Christian (i.e., Christian is something that person is). If the person believes in the divinity of Christ and in the Trinity, then that person is theologically Christian (i.e., he has Christian beliefs). However, as baptism imparts a permanent supernatural character upon the soul, a person’s status as a Christian is not dependent on how well he either understands or practices his faith.

“I know your works; I know that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either cold or hot. So, because you are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. For you say, ‘I am rich and affluent and have no need of anything,’ and yet do not realize that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. I advise you to buy from me gold refined by fire so that you may be rich, and white garments to put on so that your shameful nakedness may not be exposed, and buy ointment to smear on your eyes so that you may see. Those whom I love, I reprove and chastise. Be earnest, therefore, and repent. (Revelation 3:15-19)

Lukewarmness means “softness, laziness bent on the easiest, most pleasurable way, any apparent shortcut, even at the expense of infidelity to God.” (St. Josemaria Escriva).

It’s unfortunate, but relativism, the old “I’m OK, you’re OK” is all too alive and well.

Yes, that is very important to mention. The 10 commandments aside, we are born with the natural law. In this natural law, we have four principles or tendencies, and from those four tendencies, we get the 10 precepts which are the same as the 10 commandments. So there is no excuse for those justifying immorality, you are born with the natural law that’s written in the heart.

If you could only hear the voices of the faithful who attend mass weekly and on all holy days, you might find fewer who so actively oppose parts of our faith. That’s merely an opinion, but it reflects some of my experiences. Yes, I do understand that there are exceptions.

The people who have been most vocal with me about things they consider wrong with the Church’s teachings were cultural Catholics only. They had not been inside any church in a very long time. Their opposition tended to begin around lifestyle issues, most often divorce and remarriage.

Because they don’t understand or willingly ignore that Jesus Christ and the Catholic Church are One and the Same. So when one does not agree with a teaching of the Church they separate Jesus from His Church much like protestantism.

If you could only hear the voices of the faithful who attend mass weekly and on all holy days, you might find fewer who so actively oppose parts of our faith. That’s merely an opinion, but it reflects some of my experiences. Yes, I do understand that there are exceptions.

The people who have been most vocal with me about things they consider wrong with the Church’s teachings were cultural Catholics only. They had not been inside any church in a very long time. Their opposition tended to begin around lifestyle issues, most often divorce and remarriage.

Yes, I agree. When I was in a Mother’s group eons ago based out of my parish, I was appalled at what the young moms thought about things that the Church is very clear about. They kept saying things were “silly” and “I’m not going to felt a bunch of old men in dresses in Italy dictate how I live my life”. Of course, these women felt it paramount that their kids received Sacraments, and instruction.
The problem was, the lack of education on THEIR part.
It’s education. It most always comes down to education. If they were properly catechized, and would read the Bible and comprehend the teachings in the Catechism, they wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss everything. The people in the pew do get catechized form the pulpit every week.
Don’t let this discourage you on your journey! As Glenda said, WELCOME HOME.
God bless you on the journey!

When a person blindly follows ANY religion, I believe part of them might stop to grow. As powerful as this faith may seem, it can be extremely dangerous when unchecked and when that person becomes so CONVINCED THEY ARE RIGHT and all others ARE WRONG, they not only are willing to DIE for their belief, but as we are seeing, they are willing to KILL. So when you talk about so many Catholics supporting activities that the Church opposes, perhaps we should consider this a good thing and begin a dialogue. But on a lighter note, I think it was House that said "If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people.: :shrug:

from:The hazards of blindly following religious doctrines.

Reading and hearing the phrase “religious freedom” so often in the media causes me to wonder if anyone other than myself has pondered the possibility that the two words are, perhaps, an oxymoron.

Let me explain. On the one hand, there is no quarrel over the phrase if it refers only to one’s right to choose any religion he or she likes, and to be able to attend public expressions of certain beliefs as found in Saturday or Sunday gatherings.

In support of this, there are some who are agitated over the seeming violation of said rights by policies that appear to undermine such beliefs, to wit: some aspects of health care coverage as found in the language of government endorsement.

On the other hand, if we are to consider a deeper level of meaning for the word “freedom,” it appears fair to suggest that the adoption of a set of religious doctrines may, in that sense, be at odds with freedom. If one’s faith precludes any questioning of its basic tenets or foundations, is one, then, genuinely “free”?

Should a person not be free to question such givens and assumptions as a part of freedom of thought? As an example, the “faithful” in the Christian, Jewish, and Muslim communities believe themselves to be in possession of the “word of God” within their translations of centuries old scriptures. Followers are not encouraged to question the validity of such assertions. In fact, one major religion states that it is “sinful” to doubt its claims.

I don’t think saying “they are not Christians” would be the right thing to say. What you could say properly (as that is the way the church defines them) is that they are not in communion with the catholic church. I remember also reading somewhere else that they are protestants in denial…I have to say I agree with that one.

As to abortion, given that this specific topic carries excommunion for anyone who provides, participates or intentional has an abortion, if the person falls into this, the person may be excommunicated.

Your question is one I have been asking myself also, and the Bible is clear on these issues. But, like you, I know people who feel the Church needs to modernize and come into alignment with current social issues. They support gay marriage, the ordination of woman, changing the rules on contraception and on and on. Discussion with these friends, who continue to call themselves Catholic, always end up with me feeling like I am doing something wrong by not agreeing with them. I have come to the conclusion that i must pray diligently for these friends to come back to the faith and that I must inform myself as well as I can on the catechism of the Church so that I can speak intelligently on why we believe what we believe.

When a person blindly follows ANY religion, I believe part of them might stop to grow.

Even spiritually? Which is the goal? Once one assents to the divinely revealed faith and sets moral relativism aside, understanding we submit our own and often times erroneous opinions to an infinite knowledge, we enter a new (and lifelong) journey. One of growth and advancement toward holiness. Leave the academics aside because gifts of grace will be given never before dreamed of and the spirit discovers an unending source of new meaning to life on every level. We are not duped nor hypnotized by teaching - we gain new understanding and freedom. I would contend that those in dissension are the ones tied down and held tight by their own rebellious nature and the world. With God’s truth, it is all limitless because He is transcendent.

I think there are many reasons. People tend to want to do what is easy instead of working toward something tough.

Having said that, I also think there are circumstances where a person tries to believe something the Church teaches, but their own capacity to reason screams that it’s wrong. They honestly take a look at one of the issues you mentioned and simply come to the conclusion that it makes no sense. I have been in that place before - in a place where I simply could not, despite prayer, lots of reading, discussion with priests, etc., believe that contraception was always wrong. I wanted to just believe it, I really did. And I tried. But my own sense of “is this really reasonable - does this make sense?” just would not allow it.

I ultimately ended up taking the approach of “obedience to the Church in spite of a disagreement” because no matter what I did, the teaching did not ring true for me.

To be honest, it still doesn’t. I do hope that at some point things will click into place and I will start to agree with the Church entirely, that my own internal moral radar will line up with that The Church thinks it should be. Until that point, I offer my obedience against my own conscience to God.

I think there are many reasons. People tend to want to do what is easy instead of working toward something tough.

Having said that, I** also think there are circumstances where a person tries to believe something the Church teaches, but their own capacity to reason screams that it’s wrong. They honestly take a look at one of the issues you mentioned and simply come to the conclusion that it makes no sense. I have been in that place before - in a place where I simply could not, despite prayer, lots of reading, discussion with priests, etc., believe that contraception was always wrong. I wanted to just believe it, I really did. And I tried. But my own sense of “is this really reasonable - does this make sense?” **just would not allow it.

I ultimately ended up taking the approach of “obedience to the Church in spite of a disagreement” because no matter what I did, the teaching did not ring true for me.

To be honest, it still doesn’t. I do hope that at some point things will click into place and I will start to agree with the Church entirely, that my own internal moral radar will line up with that The Church thinks it should be. Until that point, I offer my obedience against my own conscience to God.

I am trying to go back to Church after a long time and I am amazed at the amount of support for gay ‘marriage’, abortion, contraception and porn from people who go to church regularly.

Isn’t the Bible clear on such issues? I have been told by some that the Church needs to evolve and be open to new ideas.

Is it safe to say these people are no longer Christians if they reject the institution of marriage and sanctity of life? Christianity cannot survive without marriage and the Bible is very clear on its purpose and meaning of it.

Finally, is there any good book/documentary you would recommend on we ended up in such a sad situation? I was reading about the 45 goals of communism and I find it amazing how so many goals have been accomplished.

One hour in Church is not enough to combat the constant droning from the media that such things are good and, at times, with comments like “the Church is wrong.” It took 40 years to get to where we are now. The Bible is clear, it’s just that too many, including Catholics, have been gradually desensitized to sin, meaning right and wrong have devolved into, eh, maybe, maybe not, all the way down to wrong is good, right is wrong.

You’re right about the parallel with Communism. We call it the “Culture War.” Here’s a DVD I recommend: