I stopped by the NFL Draft thread this morning and saw the thread on what other teams did well in the draft. In there, someone had stated that they liked what San Fran's GM had done, and what he's doing with the organization.

So what constitutes a good GM?

What is the training process for developing a good GM?

How does Detroit get one or develop one since Mayhew has drawn so much ire with many here?

Why do we fans feel the need to take one from another organization in order to have our own good GM? Can't we develop our own?

Thanks for considering the questions.

_________________Acts 4:13, 1 Cor. 2:1-5, Rom. 12:1-2

April 29th, 2013, 10:13 am

wjb21ndtown

Re: What makes a good GM?

WarEr4Christ wrote:

I stopped by the NFL Draft thread this morning and saw the thread on what other teams did well in the draft. In there, someone had stated that they liked what San Fran's GM had done, and what he's doing with the organization.

So what constitutes a good GM?

What is the training process for developing a good GM?

How does Detroit get one or develop one since Mayhew has drawn so much ire with many here?

Why do we fans feel the need to take one from another organization in order to have our own good GM? Can't we develop our own?

Thanks for considering the questions.

Good GM's manage people and situations well. They're task oriented, they define roles and fill those roles with great talent.

IMO there really isn't much of a training process. You can go to school for "management" and a degree in management helps, but IMO it's just part of your character and habits.

Look at Matt Millen, everyone thought he would "learn" on the job, and he did, but he would keep inventing new ways to screw up. IMO Mayhew is no different. I just don't think it's "in" either of them.

I do think Joe D built a good team for the Pistons, but he seems to have a tough time recovering, and he definitely suffered from a lack of vision in rebuilding the former championship team. It's tough for me to say how good of a GM Dombrowski is, because Illitch interferes a TON with his job.

When it comes down to it I think it's really simple, the GM needs to have a scouting background or stay his badonkadonk out of personnel decisions. There is always an exception here and there, but most of the best GMs usually spent sometime as a scout.

April 29th, 2013, 10:29 am

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 10024Location: Dallas

Re: What makes a good GM?

Football is primarily a game of talent, so a good GM is a good assembler of talent. Now a lot goes into that, but considering most good teams are built through the draft, the emphasis should come from there. As far as training, you want a guy who knows talent so up through the scouting ranks is an advantage.

One other thing, the key talent area on a team is the QB, so to be a good GM you had better be a good drafter when it comes to that position. A good GM will be defined by the championship teams he built.

Football is primarily a game of talent, so a good GM is a good assembler of talent. Now a lot goes into that, but considering most good teams are built through the draft, the emphasis should come from there. As far as training, you want a guy who knows talent so up through the scouting ranks is an advantage.

One other thing, the key talent area on a team is the QB, so to be a good GM you had better be a good drafter when it comes to that position. A good GM will be defined by the championship teams he built.

Good GMs have good scouts and good scouting departments, that's for sure. But IMO it takes a certain skill set to be able to fire good people across the board, not just the players out on the field.

Football is primarily a game of talent, so a good GM is a good assembler of talent. Now a lot goes into that, but considering most good teams are built through the draft, the emphasis should come from there. As far as training, you want a guy who knows talent so up through the scouting ranks is an advantage.

One other thing, the key talent area on a team is the QB, so to be a good GM you had better be a good drafter when it comes to that position. A good GM will be defined by the championship teams he built.

Good GMs have good scouts and good scouting departments, that's for sure. But IMO it takes a certain skill set to be able to fire good people across the board, not just the players out on the field.

Did you mean find good people across the board?

April 29th, 2013, 10:38 am

wjb21ndtown

Re: What makes a good GM?

rao wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

Pablo wrote:

Football is primarily a game of talent, so a good GM is a good assembler of talent. Now a lot goes into that, but considering most good teams are built through the draft, the emphasis should come from there. As far as training, you want a guy who knows talent so up through the scouting ranks is an advantage.

One other thing, the key talent area on a team is the QB, so to be a good GM you had better be a good drafter when it comes to that position. A good GM will be defined by the championship teams he built.

Good GMs have good scouts and good scouting departments, that's for sure. But IMO it takes a certain skill set to be able to fire good people across the board, not just the players out on the field.

Did you mean find good people across the board?

Well... that too...

Yea, I did mean "find" and not fire. I don't know if that's my phone or me. I'm tired. Rough week and even rougher weekend.

Football is primarily a game of talent, so a good GM is a good assembler of talent. Now a lot goes into that, but considering most good teams are built through the draft, the emphasis should come from there. As far as training, you want a guy who knows talent so up through the scouting ranks is an advantage.

One other thing, the key talent area on a team is the QB, so to be a good GM you had better be a good drafter when it comes to that position. A good GM will be defined by the championship teams he built.

Good GMs have good scouts and good scouting departments, that's for sure. But IMO it takes a certain skill set to be able to fire good people across the board, not just the players out on the field.

Did you mean find good people across the board?

Well... that too...

Yea, I did mean "find" and not fire. I don't know if that's my phone or me. I'm tired. Rough week and even rougher weekend.

I had to pay some taxi driver $30 to help me find my car on Sat...

Damn that sucks, but at least you found your car haha.

I got to agree with you about finding the right people and the fire part. If Mayhew was a better GM he would have convinced the Fords to fire Schwartz or at least make a bigger change this year like dropping Gunny. I like he was smart enough to bring in Xanders, but it may have come too late.

April 29th, 2013, 10:52 am

sweetd20

Pro Bowl Player

Joined: October 13th, 2005, 9:03 amPosts: 2490

Re: What makes a good GM?

A GM also must have the ability and owner that will allow them to trade and/or release players that have reached their peak. There are teams with big profile players that are scared of the fan base and don't move them and end up getting nothing from them in return and even worse in the production department. It's no different than stocks or poker when it comes to player management you need to no when to hold on and when to cash out. The Chargers are one of the most recent teams that new LT was near the end and moved on despite what the fans thought.

I'm not as sour on Pettigrew as a lot of others are but depending on where Detroit is around the trade deadline they should look to move him because his price tag is going to be higher than his value. Even if they only get a 3rd rounder that will be higher than the 3rd round comp pick that they might get if he leaves as a FA. I'd do the same with Suh around re trade deadline because they can't pay him long term with CJ and Staff's contracts. The league is about acquiring talent but its also about knowing where to spend the money, DT and TE aren't those spots unless you have an unbelievable talent like Vernon Davis.

At the end of the day it's talent evaluation and knowing where to spend the money. SF is going to have to hit on their young guys these next couple of seasons because the vets are going to be due some major contract increases over the next couple of seasons. As far as the Lions they have lacked a quality scouting department and have overpaid mediocre vets to be the star payers because thy have whiffed for so long when it comes to building through the draft. Millen left with the cupboards bare but Mayhew hasn't done much so far to restock them especially when it comes to having quality depth.

April 29th, 2013, 11:05 am

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach - Brian Callahan

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3056Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: What makes a good GM?

So let me ask this in response because after last year the error was quite obvious.

2012 Detroit Lions didn't have any heart! They didn't play like it, and even though the words were there, the fire wasn't. How do you "re-acquire the fire"?

I think Suh's on field issues were more than a distraction, they gave Detroit a dirty football label and other teams ran with it. They focused on him, and did what they could to perpetuate that.

Off season issues with alcohol and marijuana showed a total lack of personal character and immaturity on the part of those involved. In my opinion team leadership needed to pull these guys in a closet and "dress em up". We did it in the service and it works quite well! It's a way of motivating people to do the right thing, in absence of their own personal abilities.

The team lacked VISION. A vision is a goal, and playoffs are not a goal, although they were in 2011. Teams with a goal have an "end in sight" and something to work towards. We didn't have that, and living off of last years success got us a 4-12 rating.

I really appreciated what the 2012 Wolverines did by visiting San Diego and training with the SEALS for a little while. It gave them an opportunity to see how REAL PROFESSIONALS train, and it really taught the TEAM mentality. In a world where everyone's a millionaire, TEAM FOCUS should be the ONLY focus.

Thoughts?

_________________Acts 4:13, 1 Cor. 2:1-5, Rom. 12:1-2

April 29th, 2013, 1:53 pm

thelomasbrowns

Player of the Year - Offense

Joined: August 24th, 2010, 9:54 pmPosts: 2871

Re: What makes a good GM?

rao wrote:

When it comes down to it I think it's really simple, the GM needs to have a scouting background or stay his badonkadonk out of personnel decisions. There is always an exception here and there, but most of the best GMs usually spent sometime as a scout.

On the other hand, you have Phil Emery in Chicago who still acts and talks like a scout even though he's a GM. The knowledgeable analysts here were all panning the fact that he 'fell in love' with certain players (like a scout does) and didn't take other issues into consideration (like value).

_________________"Good teams don't worry about a whole lot of stuff. They travel, they play, they win. And it doesn't matter where they go, what the time block is, all those kinds of things. They never seem to bother teams that play well, and we want to be one of those teams." -Jim Caldwell

April 29th, 2013, 2:50 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: What makes a good GM?

thelomasbrowns wrote:

rao wrote:

When it comes down to it I think it's really simple, the GM needs to have a scouting background or stay his badonkadonk out of personnel decisions. There is always an exception here and there, but most of the best GMs usually spent sometime as a scout.

On the other hand, you have Phil Emery in Chicago who still acts and talks like a scout even though he's a GM. The knowledgeable analysts here were all panning the fact that he 'fell in love' with certain players (like a scout does) and didn't take other issues into consideration (like value).

There's nothing wrong with a GM "acting like a scout." If he can do his own independent player evaluations, there's nothing wrong with that. However, there is a problem with being "blind," losing sight of "reality," and "reaching for a player."

That said, IMO Chicago has drafted better than we have, so if Emery is "blind with love," I don't know what the hell Mayhew is....

April 29th, 2013, 3:54 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: What makes a good GM?

sweetd20 wrote:

A GM also must have the ability and owner that will allow them to trade and/or release players that have reached their peak. There are teams with big profile players that are scared of the fan base and don't move them and end up getting nothing from them in return and even worse in the production department. It's no different than stocks or poker when it comes to player management you need to no when to hold on and when to cash out. The Chargers are one of the most recent teams that new LT was near the end and moved on despite what the fans thought.

I'm not as sour on Pettigrew as a lot of others are but depending on where Detroit is around the trade deadline they should look to move him because his price tag is going to be higher than his value. Even if they only get a 3rd rounder that will be higher than the 3rd round comp pick that they might get if he leaves as a FA. I'd do the same with Suh around re trade deadline because they can't pay him long term with CJ and Staff's contracts. The league is about acquiring talent but its also about knowing where to spend the money, DT and TE aren't those spots unless you have an unbelievable talent like Vernon Davis.

At the end of the day it's talent evaluation and knowing where to spend the money. SF is going to have to hit on their young guys these next couple of seasons because the vets are going to be due some major contract increases over the next couple of seasons. As far as the Lions they have lacked a quality scouting department and have overpaid mediocre vets to be the star payers because thy have whiffed for so long when it comes to building through the draft. Millen left with the cupboards bare but Mayhew hasn't done much so far to restock them especially when it comes to having quality depth.

IMO this more or less all comes down to balls and the willingness to get it done. Really, I can't see an owner forcing a GM to "hold onto" a high priced talent. I mean, what the GM is more or less saying is "we're over paying this guy, he's losing it, and I can save you a ton of $$$ by cutting him." Unless it's a beloved skill position (WR, RB or QB) I can't see the owner saying "no." Further, in most cases (LT, Payton, Favre for instance) I think they're more than willing.

That said, if the GM is wrong on that decision, I'm sure his goose is cooked...

April 29th, 2013, 3:56 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: What makes a good GM?

WarEr4Christ wrote:

So let me ask this in response because after last year the error was quite obvious.

2012 Detroit Lions didn't have any heart! They didn't play like it, and even though the words were there, the fire wasn't. How do you "re-acquire the fire"?

I think Suh's on field issues were more than a distraction, they gave Detroit a dirty football label and other teams ran with it. They focused on him, and did what they could to perpetuate that.

Off season issues with alcohol and marijuana showed a total lack of personal character and immaturity on the part of those involved. In my opinion team leadership needed to pull these guys in a closet and "dress em up". We did it in the service and it works quite well! It's a way of motivating people to do the right thing, in absence of their own personal abilities.

The team lacked VISION. A vision is a goal, and playoffs are not a goal, although they were in 2011. Teams with a goal have an "end in sight" and something to work towards. We didn't have that, and living off of last years success got us a 4-12 rating.

I really appreciated what the 2012 Wolverines did by visiting San Diego and training with the SEALS for a little while. It gave them an opportunity to see how REAL PROFESSIONALS train, and it really taught the TEAM mentality. In a world where everyone's a millionaire, TEAM FOCUS should be the ONLY focus.

Thoughts?

How you get "fire" back is to hold people accountable, spread the ball, reward good play, make good decisions, and field a real team with the capability of being competitive EVERY SUNDAY.

There are at least 6 games this year, maybe 7, that I feel like we have no chance whatsoever to win. I'm sure the players see it too, and I'm sure its disheartening.

The "board" screamed at my when I wanted to cut Nate, despite his decline in play. The board said that cutting Nate would "dishearten" the "locker room" cause we parted way with a Vet. I couldn't disagree more. IMO the exact opposite is true. When we hold back talent over a vet, it reduces the incentive to produce. After all, if it takes another player getting injured to get you on the field, and not your good play, it doesn't provide much incentive to play well.

So let me ask this in response because after last year the error was quite obvious.

2012 Detroit Lions didn't have any heart! They didn't play like it, and even though the words were there, the fire wasn't. How do you "re-acquire the fire"?

I think Suh's on field issues were more than a distraction, they gave Detroit a dirty football label and other teams ran with it. They focused on him, and did what they could to perpetuate that.

Off season issues with alcohol and marijuana showed a total lack of personal character and immaturity on the part of those involved. In my opinion team leadership needed to pull these guys in a closet and "dress em up". We did it in the service and it works quite well! It's a way of motivating people to do the right thing, in absence of their own personal abilities.

The team lacked VISION. A vision is a goal, and playoffs are not a goal, although they were in 2011. Teams with a goal have an "end in sight" and something to work towards. We didn't have that, and living off of last years success got us a 4-12 rating.

I really appreciated what the 2012 Wolverines did by visiting San Diego and training with the SEALS for a little while. It gave them an opportunity to see how REAL PROFESSIONALS train, and it really taught the TEAM mentality. In a world where everyone's a millionaire, TEAM FOCUS should be the ONLY focus.

Thoughts?

How you get "fire" back is to hold people accountable, spread the ball, reward good play, make good decisions, and field a real team with the capability of being competitive EVERY SUNDAY.

There are at least 6 games this year, maybe 7, that I feel like we have no chance whatsoever to win. I'm sure the players see it too, and I'm sure its disheartening.

The "board" screamed at my when I wanted to cut Nate, despite his decline in play. The board said that cutting Nate would "dishearten" the "locker room" cause we parted way with a Vet. I couldn't disagree more. IMO the exact opposite is true. When we hold back talent over a vet, it reduces the incentive to produce. After all, if it takes another player getting injured to get you on the field, and not your good play, it doesn't provide much incentive to play well.

Everyone screamed at you because very few people agreed that Nate declined in play. His stats were pretty consistent between his 2 years and he added leadership. They never held anyone back because of Nate.