Friday, November 22, 2013

"LynyrdSkynyrdBand" and "Marliese" are in "Rolling Stone" Magazine!!!!

It's True! LSB3.COM has made the pages of "Rolling Stone" magazine!Several of our members received a hard copy of the latest "Rolling Stone" magazine in the US mail yesterday... and Lynyrd and Marliese, are both quoted inside!!! The blog was also given a righteous plug!!! The magazine hits news stands today! And yes... I'll be buying one.We'll have a HARD COPY SCAN of the actual magazine for you soon... but for now... the quotes (and plug) can be found on this website: http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/charles-manson-today-the-final-confessions-of-a-psychopath-20131121?page=3 (Lynyrd and Marliese can be found on page 3)The magazine reads:In 1975, Squeaky was convicted of attempting to assassinate President Gerald Ford and wasn't released until 2009. She has long been Manson's favorite. "That little girl right there, Lynette," he says, "I've never met a girl as truthful as her. She's never turncoated. She did 34 years in prison and never broke her vow. A man can't even do that." But Star is on the scene now, leading some of those on the Internet Manson beat to wonder if she's replaced Squeaky in Charlie's affections."Lynn deserves to be number one," wrote LynyrdSkynyrdBand on the Tate-LaBianca Homicide Research Blog, after a picture of Star and Gray Wolf with Charlie made the rounds. "She's been loyal for decades."Marliese: "I'm guessing the beautiful girl with Charlie hasn't experienced any strip and suck demands from him, or felt his fist smash across her face."A number of them commented on how unsettling it is that Star looks so much like Susan Atkins "when she was all waxed and pretty."

I am really looking forward to the article. I like it already with the writer having deemed it appropriate to include "the voice of the people". If Lynyrd doesn't get a Valentine from Lynn this year I will be very disappointed.

I can't imagine or guess how many of the Family read the Manson blogs, but you would have to surmise that ALL OF THEM will read this article, wouldn't you? Can't you just picture Grogan at some outdoor café reading it. Or Mary sitting in the corner of Starbucks reading it several times. I wonder if Leslie and Pat and Tex will be allowed a copy.

To me Star is just a pretender. Same sex marriage is legal in California, correct? Hell, I would probably marry Charlie too now knowing that he'll never be paroled and those conjugal visits have been outlawed.

I give it a 78 grade. Interesting enough. Truthfully though I thought the most interesting quotes were from Bugliosi - the one where he talks about Charlie being "one thousandth of one per cent of people" in terms of having that special aura.

But the bottom line for me is that Charlie by himself only holds so much interest for me. His rap is redundant and tiresome. It is/was his relationship to the Family, that collective mindset, that interests me most. So writing this article with absolutely no input from any Family member just feels like cheating. Charlie reflected off of Star almost seems like plagiarism.And the ass fucking analogy at the end of the article was weak and vulgar. But it was as I feared - nothing groundbreaking and far to much Star. Charlie really only interests me when he talks about other interesting folk. Get him to talk about Dennis Wilson, about other Family members, about the Black Panthers and the Beatles. My all-time favorite Charlie quote remains his comments when asked about Ted Bundy. It is hilarious and brilliant at the same time. Not much of that in this article.

Now that Lynyrd has been knighted by Rolling Stone will we have to address him as Sir Lynyrd. I wonder if other longtime Mansonologists like Michael Backporch and RH etc will be pissed our pal was quoted and they weren't. Fame can be a bitch, Lynyrd, steel yourself.

not to be a wiseass, but would people use the term "officially recognized" if the article was in People? Is Rolling Stone still the bible of the alternative counter-culture set?What we need to know at some point is how pissed Charlie is at the article, and Star and Grey Wolf. I have never been to her sites, does she blog or post her thoughts?

These days, he's full of bluster about being as free in prison as anyplace else. "You're the one in prison, man." But on his 79th birthday, he calls me, the drawl in his voice low and distant, and says, "What do you think? Do you think this story will help me get out of here, only for a little while, before I go?" And right there is the human seam in Manson, split open and leaking, only for a little while, and it does kind of move your heart.

Wow....talk about disillusionment. Charlie still believes he has a chance to be paroled? And what could he possibly say in this story to improve those chances? Not a word of contrition, remorse or taking responsibility.

yeah, Jeffry Jeff, that was the one Manson quote that blew my mind too. JFK will rise from the dead before Manson is released. I don't know if the quote shows how human Charlie is but it clearly show how out of touch with reality he is if he thinks an article in Rolling Stone could have any effect whatsoever on his incarceration. And you gotta wonder, like I said, how pissed he will be after reading the piece. Here's hoping the writer does a follow-up in a month or two.

The Col posted a thread about the article over on his site but without any comment from him which is disappointing. He has to be pissed that the drunken inbreds were quoted but he wasn't.One of the comments over there did wax how interesting it was that Charlie was repedaling the old copy cat theory. And one of my favorite posters, brownrice, seemed to like the article a whole lot more than I did. I just didn't find enough tasty morsels in it - like a really thin chicken soup without enough noodles and veggies.

I did post over on the Col's thread that I thought it interesting that Manson claims that he went to an empty house only to find the LaBianca's in it and then Tex went frenzied.

Tate, we can possibly give him a free pass as he was not there, but LaBianca's he was present, and so I have often wondered how he justifies that to the likes of Star and Greywolf, so now we know.

Leary I agree that the article was a bit of a wasted opportunity. I had a brief listen to the audio phone call provided and when the interviewer foolishly asks how did Manson know what Tex was going to do at Cielo, and the instant response is "because I am the devil, etc, etc".

And also you gotta love the comment about 45 years in jail because he wanted access to Tex's pick-up. Sums up how utterly pointless the whole thing was.

yeah, that was a great quote and insight into Charlie's mind, Christopher.I've been reading some of Jimmy Breslin's old columns....man, I miss the old school stuff. This modern "I was watching the Big Bang Theory when Charlie called" crap makes everything seem like an episode of South Park or a Doonesbury strip.

There is no high or low culture. It's all culture with a nodding wink towards irony.

$50 million for a Warhol Coke bottle painting.

You can write about how Manson may well become a folk hero in the vein of the great American gangsters of the 20s and 30s, or how he fits seemlesly in between the fart gags on South Park.

As the article was titled final confessions I would like to have seen a more historically judged approach comparing the 1970 piece and how he fits into the greater scheme of the American consciousness.

I dont't have time to figure anything out. When I found out two of my most favorite people where/are quoted in RS it just made my darn day! Hey I know LS Marliese and they have always been kind to me, told me great information & I dig the heck out of them & they are in RS freaking mag. I'm telling my friends about it. It's cool & so are LS & M. Bless !

Well I started reading that article but got way-layed. I'll finish tomorrow.

I don't like Charlie's comments about Sharon Tate.

"It's a Hollywood movie star. How many people did she murder onscreen?

Huh? Who did she murder onscreen?

Was she so pretty? She compromised her body for everything she did. And if she was such a beautiful thing, what was she doing in the bed of another man when that thing jumped off? What kind of shit is that?"

What other man? And what thing jumped off??

"Sharon Tate just happened to be there, that's all. Tex did what he had to do. Good boy. Good solider. Should have given him a Silver Star."

HELLOOOO!!!! Sharon was the one who lived there. Everybody else was crashing/visiting.

As usual, Charlie makes no sense at all. I guess this is just all ooga-booga nonsense.

I made a comment several times that the only way we are going to know the truth about this case is if Charlie talks, but as Carol so wisely pointed out...even if he does, how can we believe him?

Charlie's mad at Sharon Tate because Doris Tate made his life a living hell. Good for her.

He talks a good talk about loving "his cell" and liking himself, but why all this stuff about not getting a fair trial? If he likes it on the inside so much, why would he care if he got a fair trial or not?

He knows he'll never get out, so now he wants it to look like he wants it that way. Another form of control.

holy crap, Christopher, do you have a PHD in intellectual reasonableness or what? Your posts are always so dead on.

I recall hearing Gene Siskel once lamenting that Don Rickles had ruined American culture because of his comedic style of put downs and zingers. The TV sitcoms like All In The Family and MASH and Cheers and Seinfeld et all copied this style so a whole generation of us has grown up on put-downs and zingers as a way of communicating. A ten second sound bite with a zinger at the end. And all the reporters etc seem to be auditioning to be on Leno's or Letterman's staff. That's the gig you want. Quick quips is the way to the top.

Ah, I'm ranting. The article was enjoyable enough to read, but the more I look back on it the more disappointed I feel.

and yeah Katie, you're dead on too. As I said in an earlier post, Charlie contradicts himself twelve times before breakfast. It's another one of the million TLB paradoxes that Doris Tate felt that Charlie was basically truthful but seriously it is impossible to believe anything he says.

Don Rickles was before political correctness was invented. People used to laugh at themselves. Now we cant laugh at ourselves. We all walk around being offended at everything. It's a way of stopping discourse. Hear something you don't agree with? Just act offended. Call them a racist. It's censorship like in Stalinist USSR

At first Patty was all, Damn! Why didn't "we" get a mention? Then it occurred to Patty that if LSB got a mention, then she did too because we are all bloggers, we are a community amongst ourselves even if we don't always get along. Congrats!

PS Patty is however, disappointed that it was all about Star. It made the article too narrow, Patty feels.

does anyone else think Charlie was "kidding" when he called the reporter and asked "what to you think, do you think the story will help me get out of here". my least favorite poster of all-time is certain Manson was just kidding, he seems to have some sort of telepathy with Charlie. It sure doesn't read like he was kidding.Christopher B. pointed out how Charlie referred to Shorty having been cut up into pieces. Is Manson really that divorced from reality. Everyone knows Shorty's body was discovered intact. Why sling such obvious bullshit - unless you're pathological and have come to believe your own lies. As Carol and Katie and tons of others have pointed out, even if Manson were to 'tell the truth' at this point who would believe him. He's not the boy who cried wolf, he's the boy who actually believes he is a wolf.

Leary, if there's anything I've learned in studying this case for so long, is that Charlie is a liar.

I don't think the truth would stick to him if you put peanut butter on it when you fling it on him.

He knows he's never getting out. Never. It doesn't matter how much he whines about not getting a fair trial. It doesn't matter how much he says he had nothing to do with it. It doesn't matter how much he blames it on Tex, Susan, Pat or Leslie.

He's not getting out. And he knows that.

Charlie says he wasn't there for Shorty's murder. Lie.

Charlie says that he didn't tie up Leno. Lie.

I'm not going to go into all of his lies because it's ad infinitum.

Charlie is a liar. Plain and simple. Anyone who interviews him has got to know that going in.

As a side note, I watched a special on the History Channel today about the JFK conspiracy theories, and Vincent Bugiosi was on there talking. He looks REALLY old.

Charles Manson was controlling all these kids to do what he wanted, and when things went south, he turned his back on them.

Talk about loyalty. He doesn't know the meaning. He's making fun of them now.

He lured all these kids into his "tribe" and fed them all kinds of drugs and "philosophy". But when things went south, when they couldn't accomplish what he wanted, when time after time he tried to get them to threaten people and it didn't work, he bailed on them. It wasn't what they did, it was that they got caught.

I can't stand that guy. I know it shows, but I'm not going to hide it. I can't stand him. He ruined so many kids' lives. Not just the ones in prison, but the others too. I know they had a choice, but an older guy with kids should have known better.

RH asked on evilliz if they marry will Star wear white?-seemed strange nothing was mentioned in this article that Star is also Mansons nun- we all saw the picture of her in a WHITE store bought Nuns habit-unlike the hand sewn robes RED and BLUE made themselves-in the book Taming the Beast Lynette tells this ed george Charlie wants to marry her-apparently he didnt or wouldnt-also it mentions Lynette wrote and article for Rolling Stone in 1978 but Charlie didnt approve of her having it published in RS-now Star is included in most of this article-with her quotes of marriage which we all know would make worldwide headlines -Charlies response to marriage didnt sound as enthused as Stars announcement though

leary7 said..."does anyone else think Charlie was "kidding" when he called the reporter and asked "what to you think, do you think the story will help me get out of here". my least favorite poster of all-time is certain Manson was just kidding, he seems to have some sort of telepathy with Charlie. It sure doesn't read like he was kidding.", ...............They're just taking pot shots across the bow, Leary. Clearly the author felt it was a genuine question...But what would he know about it? The armchair experts in blog world feel the need to contradict his reading of the conversation. For the blog that felt the need to write a post explaining why they didn't cover the Rolling Stone story, ending with the statement: "So, you see, this is why we did not post a link to the Rolling Stone article; there are so many more interesting things to contemplate than the drivel of a confused young woman and her hero", well, some seem to be doing some contemplating about the drivel. Methinks there may be more jealousy than previously admitted.

yeah, it's interesting, Jeff. Two of the guys 'over there' are dead certain Charlie was kidding with that remark and anyone who takes it seriously is a moron. But it sure reads as if the writer took it seriously as evidence of a "human seam' within Manson. But I guess those guys have some special telepathy into Charlie's mind. Of course it is beyond unreasonable for Manson to 'expect to get out'. But that doesn't preclude him from his delusions. Again, reference his matter-of-fact claim about Shorty being cut into pieces.I love these guys who presume to know when Manson is kidding or when he is serious. I don't think even Charlie knows that.

actually, I find is somewhat surprising and disappointing that the article is generating so little discussion. The Col posted it on his site albeit without comment and there are only four comments - though they include ones by two of the better posters around - brownrice and Christopher B.And Liz's site of course has a 'non-thread' about the article but most of the comments there are as usual about other things - politics and the tiresome anti-govt rants. It seems to me the lack of discussion is that not to many people find Star interesting. And while Charlie had a couple of interesting comments, it is always impossible to know the degree of sincerity behind them. I think it all begs the question "who the hell is Charlie without the Family". Is he still the 'face of evil', or is he just an insignificant twisted sociopath.

Charlie and Star living in the basement of her parents house. Now THAT would be a reality show.

I wonder if the writer even tried to interview Star's parents. If what she said is true, what kind of people want their 25 year old daughter shacking up in their basement with a 80-year old mass murderer and self-proclaimed 'most evil gangsta'.Oh well, back to Duck Dynasty.

I was just Googling Lynette Fromme and came across this-a postcard she wrote with her thoughs of marriage -here is the link http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/blog/article/the-prison-letters-from-lynette-squeaky-fromme/index.html

paradoxes are always entertaining, are they not. I recall one of Charlie's taped interviews where he says he hates to read and never does. And now he is quoting the Bard. What's next, Charlie writing songs for Miley Cyrus.

Jeffrey Jeff, FYI, Patty really is not jealous. You all have supported her through some gruelling personal stuff. She has had her fair share of attention, both good and bad. Its nice to see one or two of us getting some good attention for a change.

Once a few years back someone was all over Marliese on the Official Blog. Patty remembers saying "Please be kind to Marliese. She is absolutely lovely, and we need her." Patty meant it, and now she truly hopes that some nut doesn't latch on to Lynyrd and/or Marliese. This is the world we live in.

But hey! Helter Skelter is on its deathbed now, and Patty thinks a lot of it has to do with our efforts. So please please please dispense with the "other blog" stuff. We are one and the same. Peace.

but I am curious about your comment that Helter Skelter is on its deathbed when in the article Charlie is quoted as saying "helter skelter wasn't a lie" and Vincent is quoted as acknowledging not "everyone in the murders bought the Helter Skelter thing".But Leslie, Pat and Susan clearly did. Whatever else Charlie and Tex had going on Helter Skelter cannot be dismissed outright because the simple truth is the majority of the killers (i.e., the women) were there for that reason.

Helter Skelter may indeed have been a load of crap because the guy preaching it really didn't believe in it. But Vince didn't make it up out of thin air as some on these blogs insist.

Since my main interest in TLB is the "collect mindset" aspect - which Charlie seems to acknowledge with his "psychotic episode" explanation - I am obviously against dismissing Helter Skelter out of hand.It may be crap, but it still is relevant crap.

Hey Patty,You know I was not referring to you. I am aware of the attacks on you recently and nobody needs to be treated like that.

Let me apologize to you, the Eviliz blog and it's bloggers. My previous post was hypocritical, in that I started taking the same pot shots that I was complaining about. That was unlike me, as I try to get along with everyone.

It just bugs me a little bit when people say "That's what Manson said......let ME tell you what he meant".

Anyway, you are absolutely correct about "dispensing with the "other blog stuff". I really don't associate myself with any particular blog, I just go where I'm comfortable. Peace to you and once again.......Sorry

The White Album was a masterpiece. If patty was full of LSD hearing it for the first time, she'd probably think she saw god, too. Some probably did make sense of it all for themselves with the helter skelter stuff. But...its always been sold as THE truth, what actually happened, this was a cult, he directed their every move, blah blah blah. Helter Skelter is not irrelevant, but by the same token it is not the entire picture, either.

I don't know anyone who argues that HS is the total picture, even Vince. But we all know there are Mansonologists who argue that HS is complete and total bullshit and a Bug fabrication. That just defies both reason and the evidence.

I think when everyone has hindsight and the Rolling Stone article is boiled down, Charlie's comment that "Helter Skelter was not a lie" will be one of the most remembered and relevant quotes. There are several significant aspects to the article, but for me that quote takes the cake.

The RS article has several key notes.Charlie reiterates his dissatisfaction with the sloppiness of the Tate killings which reinforces the claim that Charlie went back and saw the scene which led him to participate in the Labianca killings.

Charlie reveals that Leslie may have had cancer or an ovarian cyst which led to surgery which left her incomplete as a woman and may have had a significant role in the former homecoming queen ending up squatting on a dusty, run down desert ranch before being hauled off to prison for the rest of her life.

We now have to wonder what is it that caused Star to run away and devote herself to a sad figure like Manson. There is definantly something wrong with Star. Maybe she is running away because her parents named her Afton. Why couldn't they have named her Sue?

Okay I'm going to make a comment on Leslie Van Houten. Not the one Charlie made about her "box", but about her status.

Leslie is not a political prisoner. She's a prisoner because she's a murderer.

People like to say the only reason she's still in is because of her association with Manson. Well, that was her choice. No one had a gun to her head to stay at the Ranch. She admits she "begged" with her eyes to go on the second night of killing. Then stupidly says she didn't understand what was going to happen. She understood. They watched the news on the Cielo Drive murders. She was jealous that she wasn't included.

So now Leslie has found yet another sap to champion her. Good for Leslie.

Song of the Siren.

Why is it that no men rally to get Pat out? Hmmmm....

Leslie is not getting out. Neither is Pat, Charlie, Tex, Bobby or Bruce.

the Col finally weighed on the RS article, not on his own site but with a comment over at Liz's where he concluded that the article had "no facts, logic or inner truth". Makes you wonder what he was expecting.

damn, I screwed up again. the Col wasn't commenting on the RS article, he was commenting on the Leslie article they posted over on Liz's. I started some new meds last week and I can't seem to think straight. It's like I am channeling Scramblehead.By the way, the Col is right about the Leslie article, it is a piece of crap.

Katie I thought for sure you were going to take my head off over at Liz's but you never said a word. Like I said I am conflicted over Leslie as well as Pat. I do believe the Manson Family was a cult and that people can heal from being in a cult. But for the victims as far as I know they are gone and will never come back, they will never live a full life and their families will never recover. So what is the right thing to do with these people? I do think Pat and Leslie are reformed and truly remorseful for their crimes so what should happen, Pat's never getting out that's a given but what about Leslie? Do we continue punishing her even though she's healed or let her out at say age 75. I really don't know.

Also I do stand by my statement that the Manson prisoners are political prison because they will never be released due to a governor who lets out a Manson follower will never be elected to another political office for his/her remaining career.

Specifically: 8th Amendment concerning cruel and unusual punishment. 40 years in prison seems unusual and cruel. Even Charlie, the kingpin of lunatics, should be protected by the 8th amendment. Even though I think he is the lone TLB defendant who remains a threat he too lives under the bill of rights. Charlie has been in prison near 60 years.

The problem comes when the death penalty gets overturned. I also believe all the TLB defendants deserved the death penalty.

It is an interesting thought; would Leslie be out now if Charlie had died 15 yrs ago?

Seems kinda weird Star would want to live in her parents basement with Charlie-maybe she just mentioned they offered that- but when shes been giving quotes that her parents locked her in her bedroom for years and that now they even like Charlie -sounds like she still wants her parents approval ( doesnt everyone in someway) just my opinion- Ive never doubted Stars devtion or love to Charles Manson, Im sure its as strong as many other womens have been ( wait well except for Lynette and Sandra of course)but to mention about moving back to her parents if Charlie got out strikes me as bit strange

Five days ago, Kennedy cousin Michael Skakel was released from prison. Skakel, related to the Kennedy family, had been convicted by a jury in the brutal beating death of a 15 year old girl with a golf club. Some pix related to that case, including a censored of pic of Moxley's corpse with her pants pulled down, as it was found, can be seen HERE.

Apparently, Skakel will remain free for several years until a new trial can proceed.

Charles Manson, and many other convicted murderers have certainly never been released on bail pending a new trial because a judge ruled the defense team was "constitutionally deficient".

Either "justice" is the same for everyone, or it isn't. (kind of an oxymoron).

"After bail was posted, Skakel sauntered out of the courthouse, flanked by his attorneys, a slight grin on his face."--CNN Justice

I don't know Beauders. If you let Leslie out, you might as well let them all out.

I think the viciousness of the crime is enough to keep them in. Like I said, Hickock and Smith were hung for killing the Clutter family. And they used a single shot on each family member except the father. So if you want to compare that to over 100 stab wounds collectively, the TLB murders were much more vicious. Add in the extreme cruelty of Gary Hinman's & Shorty's murders. Couple that with killers who laughed about it and were proud of it.

They lucked out having the death penalty reversed. They should each serve a life sentence for the number of people they killed. In Leslie's case, that would be 2 life sentences and I don't think she'll live that long.

Mr P raises an interesting point as usual - what exactly constitutes 'cruel and unusual" punishment. What length of prison sentence is deemed excessive in a humane society?The Pam Smart story has some similarity to Charlie's. She is that school teacher up in New Hampshire that got her high school lover and his pals to kill her husband back in 1990. A couple of the killers are already out and all will be out within the decade. But Pam got life without parole. No chance. No hearings. She's a cooked goose. She maintains her innocence just like Charlie.

America was a country founded with violence and had been violent within to the extreme - the treatment of Native Americans and of course the Civil War. Maybe we need stronger penalties than other less violent societies. It's a long debate.I'm just trying to get us to 100 posts.

Leary I think cruel and unusual punishment would be along the lines of beheading on the guillotine or drawing and quartering. I don't think languishing in prison garb, eating and taking quite a few naps is cruel or unusual.

I would suspect it is much more cruel and unusual to be stabbed to death.

yeah, I am actually with ya, Katie. There's a guy here in St Paul that stabbed his wife to death and then threw her body in the Mississippi where it wasn't discovered till three months later and under state sentencing guidelines because he was only convicted of murder two instead of murder one he only got 13 years. He'll be eligible for parole in six years and probably out in eight. The victim's family is just devastated. How does someone commit murder and then walk free in eight years. Just blows the mind.

Some will say that life w/o parole is worse than death and the ultimate cruelty. Pam Smart says this anyway. She should have plead out for a lighter sentence but she couldn't admit being guilty. Pride you know? It woulda made her look bad. Similar to Leslie claiming Rosemary was already dead before she stabbed her.

murder two means jury did not see it as premeditated, it wasn't planned. Horseshit.Both Pam and Charlie maintaining their innocence, Mr P, just completely baffles me. What's the point? Only a handful of supporters believe either. Neither are ever going to get out. Why maintain the charade? Unless they are so pathological they actually believe their own lies. It really is mind-boggling.

Mind boggling yea.Pam was a normal girl and then started having people murdered. Why do people suddenly go bad like that? I thought Pam and her mother seemed cold and emotionless. Were both mother and daughter sociopaths? Few sociopaths murder. Pam was just one of the ones who did.

As far as Charlie; I never got the feeling he understood conspiracy laws. He understands prison laws but not the law on the outside.

Pam has a sister, Mr P,. who I do believe gave evidence against her. The mother is indeed fierce. Just as Charlie is the face of evil for most of America, Pam seems to hold that title in New England. Well, her and Whitey Bulger. Pam was always an extreme narcissist and I believe it is just a hop skip and jump from there to full on sociopath.A woman was elected the new gov of New Hampshire recently and one of her first public statements in office was the Pam Smart would never get out. And Pam hadn't even petitioned for clemency.

Man, as usual you raise an interesting point, Mr P., about Charlie possibly not even understanding the concept of conspiracy in the outside world. His frame of reference was so schooled in prison life he probably honestly believed(s) he was innocent of TLB because he wasn't there. Not an excuse, obviously, but an interesting psych concept to contemplate.

Being friends with Charles as I am I'm sure is not on people's list of wants or wishes. However I do feel that I need to comment in these posts that stem from the Rolling Stone article in which Afton (aka Star) claims they are getting married. Since I also was named in the Rolling Stone article on page 77 because I have released an album of Charles's music that had been lost for 30+ years, and was also belittled for sending him a wheel chair in the article. There is one thing I would like people to know about the Charles I know. I do not believe for one minute that Charles will EVER get married again period!! I am well aware of the amount of time the they spend together, but I am quite confident that is simply due to loneliness and she is right down the road from him. If anyone out there even cares to hear what a normal conversation with Charles is like, I would suggest going onto my webpage. Here you will be able to see loads of never before seen photos, hear vocal conversations between him and I, and hear for yourself what a 79 year old Charles sounds like, and what we talk about. If anyone cares you can loose yourself here for quite a while. www.primeministeroftheunderworld.com

I remember seeing pic of Pam's sis; nice looking gal. Never knew she gave evidence at all. Pam is another inmate with a long sentence. No other woman in N.H. has life w/o parole. Her sentence seems "unusual". Cruel even. Spousal murders are common today but not convictions w/no parole. Is thee much of a point of incarceration after 50 years other than the display of cruelty? These no-parole convictions sound great immediately after a sad murder but not decades down the road. I would question why the N.H. governor has such contempt for a woman like Smart. I have more contempt against a Skakel than a Smart due to the more violent and senseless method of murder. Both murders are strange though.Pam Smart's marriage did have a couple of violent altercations where the hubby attacked Pam. He threw her out the front door once into the snow. That's a no-no in my book. She should have claimed abuse by the hubby. All she needed was an area of contention or provocation in order to lessen her sentence. But she chose to lie her way out. Young people do stupid things though. A judge is supposed to be aware of human failings.Bernie Madoff hurt an entire nation but he will serve less time than a Smart or a Manson. I'd have no problem hanging Madoff. This evil man financially crippled millions of people and many committed suicide over their plight. Yet we stay angry at Leslie Van Houten ho is not in the same category of evil as a Madoff. This dude single handedly caused a worldwide recession that hasn't ended and may never. Of course we have done nothing to try and end it. An unemployed man and woman committed suicide together over financial woes in my town last week.

Christmas 67 dunno where they were. Weren't they all at Barkers in Christmas 68? Christmas 69 they were in jail.Dunno why they would celebrate Christmas because they hated the dominant culture or Establishment. The Establishment were the Christians. Hippiedom was an atheist ideology. The majority of The Family were Jewish so Channahka(sp) was the holiday most of them may have honored, not Christmas.

FN 8. The reason for the talks is set forth in the testimony of Paul Watkins:

"Q. Several times he told the Family why it was necessary to talk?

"A. Yes, at different times to different people because if a new person was there, he also would want to tell them. * * *

"Q. What did he say as to the reason why it was necessary to talk to the Family at night?

"A. Because most people were like computers. In other words, they did not know anything that had not been put in them by schools, churches, parents, friends, relatives, radio, television and everything, and every other means of communication. Nothing they had was their own; that they didn't know anything. They [sic] only thing they knew is what they had been told and programmed, and that he with his music and his words could unprogram, take those programs out and leave a void, or nothing, in which love could come through.(END QUOTE)

Poirot Replies:

It would seem that birthdays would be a memory needing to be purged as everything you knew including your birthdate was taught to you. Charlie was teaching The Family to die. Wouldn't a birthday be counter productive to achieving total ego death?Yet there is the song "Yer Birthday" on The White Album.So which is it?

Concerning birthdays and T-Giving there had to be two types at Spahn ranch. Some could go home since they lived nearby such as Simi Valley Sherry. Nancy Pitman's mother would visit her at Spahns. Pitman's family lived in Malibu. Clem's family lived nearby. Then you had Krenwinkle, Atkins and Van Houten types which never left Spahns to visit home.Tex kept trying to leave and stay way but would be drawn back to Charlie.There were different levels of brainwashing and control within Charlie's cult. How much of your soul could you keep? That determined what you would end up being convicted of. If you gave it all up you are still in prison today.

Leary, really ? you cant keep Katies blog without asking for it over & over again ?

I challenge you to a blog arguement. subject of your choice. Anything you chose & any side you take I will take the oposite. If you are pro public ed I am against it. Pro US ? I am against it. Pro HS I'm against it. Anyway you get the idea, you pick a point of view & I will argue against you. Bring it on sunshine.

yowza, bobby, where did that come from? I recall only asking for Katie's address two or three times. The first couple of times I got distracted and forgot to add it to bookmarks. Why the hell are you so riled up?Maybe you have been reading over at Liz's site. My frustration over there was my feeling that the site was becoming increasingly 'pro-Manson' and at the same time some really repetitive anti-govt and anti-American rants.I am no super patriot. I have been a devout critic of our govt and culture for a long time. I am just not comfortable with righteous conspiracy rhetoric that assigns evil to anyone or anything that is not to the left of the Chicago 7.I have no desire whatsoever to argue with you about any of this. I have taken my football, as Matt proclaimed, and returned to the quiet of my backyard.

dammit, I wrote something but was under the wrong email so it didn't get posted.

Just gotta ask, Bob, why are you so riled up at me? Yes, I did ask for Katie's address maybe twice before but I never made it over there so I forgot to bookmark. What's the big deal?

And yes, I did have more than my share of conflict over at Liz's site as I felt the vibe over there had turned decidedly pro-Manson and ant-govt.I am no super patriot. I have spent my life criticizing both our govt and culture, But I just can't stand that righteous conspiracy rants that assigns evil to anyone and anything that isn't to the left of the Chicago 7.I have no desire whatsoever to argue with you Bobby. I have taken my football, as Matt proclaimed, and retired to the quiet of my backyard. Peace.

And yes, I did have more than my share of conflict over at Liz's site as I felt the vibe over there had turned decidedly pro-Manson and ant-govt.

I have always felt that it takes a Small Man to sit back and endlessly complain about his anti-government feelings and suspected Government corruption (i.e. Max Frost). If you feel that strongly about it, a Real man would get off his duff and attempt to do something about it. Recall elections have been in the news lately, so arrange a petition drive. Spearhead some non-violent protests. They worked in the 60’s. Start your own anti-Government blog. Better yet, run for political office yourself? You might fail, but at least you’d have the satisfaction of trying to change things. Could you imagine the response if someone was to start talking about Manson on a Government type blog? Yet they let him post anti-Govt stuff on a TLB blog.

people find their irrational passions in the oddest of places, Mr P. I suspect most folk would consider it bizarre that we remain passionately interested in a crime that took place 45 years ago.

But just one thing, I do not wish to imply that anyone other than the two guys I have difficulty with over at Liz's is in any way un-American. I love the fact that the blog world contains people with strong opinions all over the spectrum.I just can't stand rudeness is all.

yes, Miss Crabtree, I agree. Hey, that should be a song lyric.But yeah, my problems with the guy you mentioned began when he voiced his belief that the Boston Marathon bombing was somehow a government operation. Being from Boston I took great personal offense at that. And then it went downhill from there. I'm just not a big fan of irrational crapola, And when you couple it with rudeness then deal me out. Thanks for your thoughts.

I don't know if that one was directed at me, Mr P,, but if it was what you smell is someone who has gotten to the stage in life where he has grown beyond weary of labels and put-downs. I really could care less what a person's views are as long as they are presented with intelligence and civility. The problem I had over at Liz's was with guys I found excessively rude and who made outrageous claims without citing any evidence whatsoever.

For example, saying something along the lines of "there are hundreds of criminals far worse than Manson and they are all holding office" while not naming any is just empty rhetoric, not to mention both ludicrous and inflammatory. Some might argue it is just a witty thing to say, but if it is it's a cheap laugh at best.Anyways, back to my hot dog.

"If you could get everybody that’s watching football, basketball, and baseball, to accept the truth in words, and you tell all those people a simple message – that if you don’t start planting and putting back into the earth everything that you’ve taken from it, you’re all going to die and perish in a cruel terrible way, forever."--Manson Direct

Mr. Manson has apparently been preaching a message of "impending doom" for quite a while now.

"If you could get everybody that’s watching football, basketball, and baseball, to accept the truth in words, and you tell all those people a simple message – that if you don’t start planting and putting back into the earth everything that you’ve taken from it, you’re all going to die and perish in a cruel terrible way, forever."--Manson Direct

I assume Charlie's talking about plants. How many plants did he plant on Spahn's Ranch and any other place he lived?

How is he going to re-plant his victims? Sounds like he's predicting his own demise. Let's see, what was it?

"you’re all going to die and perish in a cruel terrible way, forever."

yeah, Carol, and it is an interesting thread of comments - most sympathizing with the victims and vilifying the writer of the article for mythologizing Manson.

It seems clear that the writer decided from the start his article would be a profile of two people he obviously considered fascinating - Star and Manson.

Reality though is that very few folk seem to consider Star interesting - most see her as a sad and deluded person. And as I said in my initial response to the article - I really don't see Manson as an interesting figure EXCEPT as to his relationship to the Family and the 60's. For the past several decades he has been but a garden variety con existing in a box. Sure he is a cultural icon of evil, but seriously has he done or said anything of much interest in the last forty years? Just the same old song and dance. Katie nails it when she points out what a shameless hypocrite he is with his environmental proclamations.A couple of posters whom I respect said they enjoyed the article. To each his own. But most of the Manson bloggers seem to agree it was a great disappointment - much like Jeff Guinn's book.

Yeah Leary, The Rolling Stone magazine isn't anything prestigious. It's just a thrill mag for current rock news. I don't know why Charlie would qualify for rock music. His music sucks.

Anyway, he didn't even start this ATWA stuff until after he was convicted. Before that, he couldn't care less about the environment. Like we've said a million times before, they had oil leaks from junk cars all over California plus acid leaks from leaky batteries dripping on the ground. They burned a loader. They didn't give two shits about the environment back then.

So it's just hot air blowing out of Charlie's mouth now. He's either senile or he doesn't have anything else to bitch about.

Or maybe talking about the environment is the current way to meet chicks. HA HA.

It is interesting though, Katie, that Vince seems to truly believe what he said in the article about Manson, that he is in the "one thousandth of one percent" of people - a fraction of folk who have a "special aura".That is why I would love to see Vince and Charlie have one more encounter. I would be curious to see if Vince thinks Charlie still has that aura, or if he were to conclude that Manson's "special aura" was situational in relation to the Family and the times.Now he is nothing but a despicable pathological liar and con.There was indeed a time when I thought Charlie was one of the more fascinating people on earth - that Charlie Rose interview for example. But his act has grown so tiresome and deluded I just can't imagine that Vince would see any kind of aura today.

It's one thing to be critical of the govt, Louis, which is literally both everyone's right and duty. But it is a monsterous leap to say something like our govt was the one really responsible for killing and maiming innocent people at the Boston Marathon.I am all for intelligent criticism of our government. I just have zero tolerance for empty, irrational and inflammatory rhetoric - which, I am afraid, your statement qualifies as.

FRIENDS

"Charlie Manson is a five foot seven schizophrenic, who if it weren't for the murder of Sharon Tate, would never be known or discussed. And I'm not saying he isn't funny and entertaining. I'm saying he's a dime a dozen criminal-class punk, who had the good fortune of running into some middle class pseudo-revolutionary white girls." -- Tom G

"The simple and undeniable truth, is that Charlie and the gang were/are the biggest idiots, morons and imbeciles on the planet." -- Leary7

"Them fucking fruitcakes could not pour piss out of a boot, with the bottom written on it."--Harold True