A Tribute to the Thoughts of Another and his Friend"Everyone knows where we have been. Let's see where we are going!" -Another

Friday, February 27, 2009

Gold Price Suppression Explained

In any discussion of the future of Gold, or of the price of Gold, the first thing that must be realized is that Gold is a POLITICAL metal. In the true meaning of the word, its price is "governed".

This is so for the very simple reason that Gold in its historical role as a currency is fundamentally incompatible with the modern worldwide financial system.

Up until August 15, 1971, there has never in history been an era when no paper currency was linked to Gold. The history of money is replete with instances of coin clipping, printing, debt defaults, and the other attendant ills of currency debasement. In all other eras of history, people could always escape to other currencies, whose Gold backing remained intact. But since 1971, there is NO escape because NO paper currency has any link to Gold.

All of the economic, monetary, and financial upheaval since 1971 is a direct result of this fact.

The global paper currency system is very young. It depends for its continued functioning on the BELIEF that the debt upon which it is based will, someday, be repaid. The one thing, above all others, that could shake that faith, and therefore the foundations of the modern financial system itself, is a rise (especially a sharp rise) in the U.S. Dollar price of Gold.

Some of you may have seen the following posts on the USAGold forum. But they will quickly be bumped and I thought they were worth framing.

Chris Powell from GATA explains the gold price suppression scheme nicely and succinctly. Given the evidence, it is very hard to deny that this is happening. And more importantly, the implications of this being the reality in which we live are huge. Especially now, and especially for anyone with some gold.

While central banks traditionally have said they lease gold to earn a little money on a supposedly dead asset, in 1998 Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan told Congress that this was not true. Central banks lease gold, Greenspan admitted, to suppress its price:

For years prior to 2000, gold leasing fueled what was called the gold carry trade. Investment houses leased gold from central banks, paying the central banks a tiny annual interest rate, usually well below 1 percent of the value of the gold leased, and then sold the gold into the market and invested the proceeds in government bonds, earning perhaps 5 percent annually. The huge difference in interest rates meant a virtually free stream of income for the investment houses, income paid by central banks as interest on the government bonds purchased by the investment houses, secure as long as the investment houses could be protected against sudden rises in the price of gold.

Gold-leasing governments liked this scheme because it supported government bond prices and government currencies and kept interest rates down — below where a free market would have set them. The results were the worldwide, credit-fueled boom, a vast misallocation of capital into unprofitable, unsustainable enterprises, and the worldwide bust now under way.

When the price of gold reached bottom in 1999 and turned up, threatening the investment houses that had sold leased gold even as Western central bank gold reserves began to decline markedly, the Western European central banks, under the supervision of the U.S. government, announced the Central Bank Gold Agreement:

The U.S. government was not formally a signatory to the agreement, but it was announced in Washington and has been called the Washington Agreement. So it is fairly surmised that the U.S. government helped organize the agreement and had a big interest in it — the continuing support of the U.S. dollar and U.S. government bonds through gold price suppression. Gold price suppression was the essence of the “strong dollar policy.” The Washington Agreement was a plan of dishoarding and sale of the gold reserves of the Western European central banks. While the agreement’s participants said they meant to support the gold price by limiting and co-ordinating their gold dishoarding, in fact they were arranging cash settlement of their gold loans, allowing the investment houses that were short gold to close their positions in cash rather than in gold itself. The investment houses were allowed to settle in cash because if they had been required to settle in gold, they would have had to go into the open market to get it and the gold price would have shot up very high, bankrupting the investment houses and greatly diminishing the value of all government currencies and bonds.

That is, central banks do not want their leased gold back. That is what you are missing.

Ever since the Washington Agreement in 1999 the Western central banks have been managing their controlled retreat with the gold price, letting gold rise a fairly steady 15-20 percent per year on average, stretching out their dishoarding as far as they can while trying to maintain some gold on hand for emergency intervention in the currency markets.

Barrick Gold, the biggest hedger (short) among the gold miners, confirmed all this when it announced some years ago that most of its gold loans had 15-year terms and were what the company called “evergreen” — always allowed to be rolled over year after year so that the gold never had to be repaid as long as Barrick paid the tiny amount of cash interest due on it every year.

Barrick is short more than 9 million ounces of gold and until a few years ago was short much more than that. Who would lend so much gold indefinitely and for a mere pittance in interest? Only a central bank that meant to suppress gold as part of a scheme to keep government currencies and government bonds up and interest rates down.

That is, gold is only the tail on the dog here. But it’s a very strong tail.

You can find more detail about the gold price suppression scheme here:

One more thing. I should have added that in defending against Blanchard & Co.’s gold price-fixing lawsuit in U.S. District Court in New Orleans in 2003, Barrick went so far as to claim to be the agent of the central banks when it leased and sold gold and to share their sovereign immunity against lawsuit:

33 comments:

Interesting article. It's just more circumstantial evidence of manipulation, which by now amounts to an overwhelming list of circumstantial evidence.

What is particularly interesting is the fundamental deceit behind "leasing" gold. I always knew they wouldn't get their gold back. Once it's sold into the marketplace, it's very difficult to recover. What I didn't know is that they never intended to get it back. Therefore, calling the sale a "lease" is fundamentally deceptive. What's new, eh? "Leasing" gold also allows the lessors to continue to claim the gold as being in their possession. In other words, two parties are claiming ownership of the gold, which would seem to double the amount of gold in circulation, another way to dilute the price.

I must object to Dave's comment that this article is "just more circumstantial evidence of manipulation." As the article references, Greenspan has stated that central banks stand ready to lease increasing quantities of gold should the price of gold rise. One could hardly call that circumstantial evidence of the manipulation of the gold price - indeed, it's about as direct an admission of manipulation as one could hope for.

The world has existed on a shadow gold standard tied to the world's aggregate M0 money supply since 1999.

http://dollardaze.org/blog/?post_id=00555

Basically the chart measures the aggregate value of all the estimated ounces of gold in terms of the spot price, against the value of all aggregate M0 narrow money issued directly by central bankers.

Look what happened in 1999. The aggregate value of gold reached parity with USD + JPY + Euro. AND IT STAYED THERE. And then in 2001, it was allowed to float until it reached parity with USD+JPY+Euro+CNY. AND IT STAYED THERE. Then in 2005, it was allowed to float to the aggregate value of ALL the world's narrow money.

What does this mean? When the world's central banks decide to formulate the next Bretton Woods standard, it will be easy to do so, because it already exists. It means gold is currently allowed to float while central banks print money like mad to keep banks solvent in their quantitative easing scheme. It means that the spot price of gold has been as tightly regulated as any currency peg for the past 10 years. It also means that Greenspan never actually sold out on his goldbug principles. And if I'm right, and I think I am, then until the aggregate value of gold catches up to all the M0 money printed in the last year, gold is going to be the easiest return on investment in nominal terms ever.

Furthermore, since the world exists on a shadow M0 gold standard, the world's central banks will be able to monetize debt by devaluing paper money relative to gold, much as Roosevelt did when he revalued the dollar to gold exchange rate in 1934. Only this time, it's happening through the mechanism of narrow M0 money issued directly by central bankers everywhere. Quelle surprise, Bernanke and Greenspan have known exactly what they were doing all along.

This, by and by, is the world's best kept secret. The original authors of that linked article can't have missed the implications. I'm relying on you to verify the incontrovertible proof of the numbers, and to disseminate it far and wide.

much as Roosevelt did when he revalued the dollar to gold exchange rate in 1934We all know what Roosevelt did just prior to that. He may have had a "right" under the gold standard, but our current President knows his hero Lincoln invoked a lot more than that under "crisis". Your thoughts, anonymous?

Obama .......because of his ignorance (operating under limited info : held only in clouds by majestic , they think, banker elites) is now the latest puppet and stooge for the banker community which now is suspect may own all gov'ts politburo .......on the ready to bring in WORLD GOV'T and become savior ......while all the people are screaming with their hands outstretched for SHELTER FROM THE STORM that the BANKERS MADE HAPPEN ........

just what they wanted WORSHIP ....SALAAMING, BOWS from the REVERENT...brown nosing from their congressmen and media hacks who are there to laud them HIGHLY IN REVERENCE which they are not worthy of ///////////STRAIGHT PROPAGANDA BEING PARADED ON TV in THE HIGHEST AND BEST OF THE WORLDS ABILITY to Lighten .....ponzi GLORIFICATION .........One has to begin to wonder ....who those bankers work for .....the network elite and where their social engineering programs are leading their objectives........One might read the Bible to SEEK answers relative to such questions....and to prepare eternally as well as prepare for the next 2 decades ...of fallout caused by SOLD OUT POLITICIANS who gave regulators a pass on regulating ......and BANKERS who were allowed to DO UNREGULATED TRADING WITH OFFSHORE COMPANIES desiigned to GUT HUGE amounts of WEALTH FROM stocholders......

to give great pain to the masses (proletariat)we.........so they might be more easily able to PRESS US INTO THEIR WAY OF THINKING ........through the medium of FEAR.........that we might become their followers

WHO DO THESE BANKERS AND POLITICIANS WORK FOR ....

You will understand the answer when you see where they intend on leading us lemmings.......( the fullness of this picture is being held back from your view and it's screenwriter behind the curtain)

THEY HAVE ALL EARNED A TRIP TO THE WOODSHED.......which is ultimately coming .....

THEY ARE THE PROBLEM .........following them is a rediculous solution ......

better off going to survival school or establishing that in community on a local level where all provision comes from members of the community you choose.....back to hunting and ag ......and getting off the grid.......

May they die the death that they have earned by SWEARING AND OATH to Selling out their souls for greed ........and giving only lipservice to the vows they made when taking the oath of office.

too much "let's make a deal "......... and now NO SALT....

they used to clean with salt bars and when the salt had lost its saltness.....it was good for nothing and they threw it out ....

We have already reached that point...friends and neighbors....

WE now go back to the roots that are forbears established this country on and rebuild from the ground up .....

No more sucking up to the idiots that went to corporate heaven or power tripped their way to washington.....dc .....for a morsel of bread like Esau who lost his inheritance ...

Americans are pioneers.....independent .....and who find THE WAY .......and Providence is Tarrying

The HOMELESS IN THIS COUNTRY NOW have integrity and Perseverence and Legitimacy than all the politicians that sold out and all the COPRORATE Cronys that sold out and all the media hacks that sold out..........to covering the bases for the bankers and covering each others butts so that the proletariat .....would be the last to know ........that they had a party on us ....

Jesus said that the First shall be last and the Last shall be first...

the word SHALL usually means ABSOLUTELY ....

a pretty powerful word if you believe in absolutes........

If my hope didn't rest on THE SPIRITUALLY ABSOLUTE.....i would by now be manically saddened by the events that have appeared before me in the past decade.....which have very much saddeend me about the allibaster's city's gleam and the purple mountains majesty's and the Lady in N Y Harbor that has been abysmally tarnished by the acts of VERY FEW MEN who have affected us globally in a most infamous way....

I AM CONVINCED THAT THOSE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ACTS MOST RECENTLY CAUSED IN FINANCE and THOSE RESPONSIBLE for prior actions that were not investigated....are going to he held accountable .....but THEY NEED TO BE ACCOUNTABLE NOW ....THEIR NEEDS TO BE A PURGING...One that should not be forgotten, MANY MEN JAILED UNMERCIFULLY .....so that this doesn't come up again for some time

Thanks for the Griffin interview. Very eye-opening. The people had better wake up soon or else the future will be very grim indeed. I believe we are about to witness the coup de grâce of either collectivism or individualism. Martin Armstrong suggests that we will see the death of socialism. The turning point of the cycle is coming and we will see how the people react. Will their faith go to the public sector or the private sector? But of course nothing is certain. And there are powerful forces, as Griffin says, that are pulling for universal collectivism and the death blow of individualism.

Here are the direct links for that excellent interview, each one is a different format. The first is Windows Media Player:

Not sure I understand your comment. But I will give it a shot. As the markets are set up right now, the most leveraged part of the market usually drives the prices. And that is the futures contracts or the derivatives. This is true for all commodities. The cash market is very weak compared to the highly leveraged derivatives. So to some extent, yes, other commodities are susceptible to manipulation. The difference as I see it, (and I think as GATA sees it) is that gold is really a competing currency to the dollar while the other commodities are simply commodities.

So while speculators might drive prices of oil and grain up and down to their own profit-taking end, gold is actually manipulated for a different reason, and by a different puppet-master. It is GATA's contention that the profit-taking traders are actually acting under the direction and protection of the government in this endeavor. And that takes the crime against gold to a higher level.

ETF's are a different subject. That is why your comment confuses me. ETF's are set up to simply track the fluctuations created by the more leveraged futures markets. But in the end, they do exert some force on the price as well. The point with gold ETF's is that they end up being deceiving to the gold bull. People that believe gold is going up might invest in GLD. But what they don't understand is that this investment actually enables those entities that are taking gold down.

In ETF's for other commodities, this is probably the case as well. I assume that if you buy into an oil ETF that the ETF does not actually store oil somewhere on your behalf. It probably buy's oil derivatives which enables that leveraged market giving it more power.

In any case, the big problem with gold is that the US government has an actual policy of manipulating the price of a commodity traded in the free markets. And this is an unfair advantage because you are now trading against the entity that owns the very currency printing press. How can you possibly win in the long run?

The answer is that you will win big time when that currency fails. But only if you hold the actual physical commodity and not a currency-denominated contract (which an ETF is).

Thanks for the reply. I think you understood my question. The reason for posting it was that I came across some outrage on ETFs (GLD) supposedly not being covered by physical and I was wondering whether that was such a unique situation compared to other ETFs.

With regard to the suppression of gold I do wonder whether something would not have come out by now if it is true. After all, such an operation should involve quite some people, and usually someone always comes into the open about stuff like that in time.

In reaction to some of your other reactions I'm currently studying some more on the strong dollar policy, gold suppression etc. So far thanks for the info, I'll get back on it later.

Btw, if you enjoy thinking out of the box the presentation below might be interesting. It's about the mayan calendar and consists of two 90 min. parts, but it does provide a very interesting view on the current crisis. In short it argues that the previous century was about installing power in the world (big companies, the dollar, the States as leader) and that right now we are installing ethics. We are witnessing a lot of moral outrage about the financial system and even the gold-focus is about finding an ethical financial system.

I suggest you give it a try. You should watch the whole two parts in order to understand the message, but the good news is that you will be able to determine whether it has something for you in about 15 minutes watching.

The link to the first part: http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=-8689261981090121097&q=lungold&total=58&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

There is plenty of evidence of suppression that has come out. GATA has been tracking it since 1999. The problem is that the mainstream media either doesn't care or doesn't understand the significance of it. And that significance is that gold suppression actually CAUSED the collapse we are in right now. Without gold suppression the interest rates could not have been suppressed and the extreme bubbles would never form.

Here is a video of Bill Murphy of GATA just yesterday on Bloomberg TV talking about this.

And here are just 6 of the many pieces of evidence in the public record:

1) The minutes of the Federal Open Market Committee meeting of January 1995, which quote the Federal Reserve’s general counsel, Virgil Mattingly, as acknowledging that the U.S. government has engaged in “gold swaps.” The only purpose we can figure for “gold swaps” is market intervention, the more so insofar as Mattingly, when confronted with his comment years later, indignantly denied making it.

2) Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan’s testimony to Congress in July 1998 acknowledging that central banks lease gold to suppress its price — not to earn a little money on a supposedly dead asset.

3) Barrick Gold’s claim, made in U.S. District Court in New Orleans in February 2003, to share the sovereign immunity of central banks against lawsuit, insofar as Barrick was their in shorting gold to help control its price.

4) The annual report of the Reserve Bank of Australia for 2003, which asserted that central banks hold gold for intervention in the currency markets.

5) The speech given in June 2005 to a conference at the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, by the head of the bank’s monetary and economic department, William S. White, who said that a major purpose of international central bank cooperation is “the provision of international credits and joint efforts to influence asset prices (especially gold and foreign exchange) in circumstances where this might be thought useful.”

6) The memorandum recently discovered in the archive of former Fed Chairman William McChesney Martin detailing a scheme for the U.S. government to rig the currency and gold markets surreptitiously and to obfuscate, falsify, or withdraw government publications so the scheme would not be discovered.

These Keynesians think they are actually doing us all a favor by suppressing the gold price. But they know it is wrong from a free market perspective, so they keep it hidden. But not very well.

That was a great video. I could relate to what he was saying at a very high level of consciousness and self-awareness. But I would recommend that if anyone wants to watch it, they turn it off at about 2 hour and 45 minutes in. The last 15 minutes is when he starts getting a little kooky. The first part is about the grand cyclical nature of the Mayan Calendar.

This relates very well to Martin Armstrong's cycles. Armstrong teaches us that there are many overlapping cycles. His business cycle is like AM radio. It is a set frequency with amplitude modulation. In other words, events happen at very specific times, but certain times are more important than others (higher amplitude). But within those frequencies, there are also carrier signals. These cycles carry the information of the past into the future and affect the actual events that happen on the AM cycles.

This Mayan Calendar cycle is probably the broadest, most fundamental carrier signal running through the universe and through time. It is both frequency and amplitude modulated. The frequencies are getting shorter and shorter as are the amplitudes. And at "the end of the calendar", I would expect the cycle to reverse, and the frequencies and amplitudes to start getting larger.

I would like to draw the distinction between the message and the messenger. This guy is a great speaker. And I think he delivered an important message during the first 2 hours and 45 minutes. But I would just like to point out what he predicted in the last 15 minutes of the video. Bear in mind this video was made in late 2003:

2004 Financial world crumbles - Dollar worthless2005 Free Energy discovered2006 Free Energy for everyone on Earth2007 Aliens visit earth2008 Teleportation discovered2009 A time of getting used to Bliss (lol - not much bliss right now)2010 Time Travel discovered2011 Consciousness Enlightened/End of Mayan Calendar

I am not highlighting these predictions to discredit him. Only to point out that it is the message of the past observation of cycles that is most valuable and most credible here. Not the opinions and conclusions drawn by the individual messenger. All of the above predictions were made only in the last 15 minutes of a 3 hour video.

Many followers of the Mayan Calendar believe that 2012 will be the end of the world. But I would like to put forth the alternate view that perhaps it is just the end of the creation cycle which took 16 billion years.

As all cycles do, this one will reverse and rebound. So 2013 would be the beginning of the destruction cycle, which will also take 16 billion years to play out. During the early stages of this new cycle, we will see the reversal of the trends witnessed over the past few hundred years. Less centralization, more localization, and so on.

So in this view, Freegold makes perfect sense. And 2012 is not something to fear, but something to embrace. It is the beginning of a new era. I will point out that this video puts the end of the Mayan Calendar at October 2011, not 2012. I don't know the reason for this discrepancy. But for anyone reading this who is expecting something mystical to happen in 2012, consider the above predictions and just how well they played out.

Martijn, I found his history of the universe fascinating. I assume you did as well. Please check out this article titled The Age of the Universe. It tells a very similar story. Gerald Schroeder is a physicist from MIT, and also a Jewish scholar and knowledgeable in ancient Kabbalah. (I am not Jewish, but I find his thoughts absolutely thrilling to consider.) In it he shows how time itself is dilated by the expanding universe, and how this relates to everything described in the video. This time dilation could explain the shortening frequencies in the Mayan Calendar.

I agree with you and him that we seem to be in a period of Ethics overtaking Power. This is a very positive way to view the present. And to me, this coincides very nicely with the emergent concept of Freegold!

Great to hear that you could appreciate the video. I agree with you on the last 15 minutes not beeing the best. I was recommending it for the general line of though and the idea of ethics taking over from power. I believe the main concern of the speaker is explaining the general line of thinking and that he is not too sure how it will play out exactly (nor does he think it is all too important). As for gold and silver: I tend to agree with the mad scientist that silver currently has more upside than gold. The silver market seems to be even more rigged than the gold market (http://news.silverseek.com/TedButler/1236702001.php), silver has harldy priced in its monetary value, nowadays there is less silver than gold above ground and should commodities begin to rise silver will follow.So far I'll continue studying freegold. Thanks for your explainations so far!

Btw, I also do not believe 2012 to be the end of the world. I don't think the guy in the video does also. What I do believe is that intuition will gain importance over the mind, since the more we advance in the future the less we will be able to process all information coming at us. Our brains are simply not cut up for that task, so we'll have to develop a way of overcoming that.

As for the world ending according to the mayan calendar: that view is incorrect. What I believe the guy in the video and the maya's believe is that from 2012 time and place will not be the relevant dimensions, and if time is not relevant who needs a calendar. That's why it stops.

However, anyone not particulary interested in that discussion should still watch the video, since the basic line of thought provides a great view on human and societal development and thereby shines a new and positive light on the current "collapse" of the financial system.

I would definitely recommend the video to anyone with a broad interest in society and an open mind!

And for bonus comment (sorry for not posting all my thoughts once) the mayan calendar not based on the earth orbiting the sun, so even though their calendar stops, the earth will most likely continue evolving around the sun (as it has for a long time) and the gregorian calendar based on that movement will also continue.

Interesting post. I understand a little German. What they say in the interview is:

For years there have been rumors about gold price manipulation.

What are reasons for and against supression?Normally central banks should want gold to rise since they own it.They have however said to be interested in low gold prices.In 1993 the FED has admitted to be able to manipulate gold prices rather easily.The reason for central banks to want a low gold price is simple, gold is an indication for inlfation and panic, and since central banks want to keep money stable they want a low gold price.

Is manipulation visible in graphs?Yes, that is possible.1. Don't undertand this part.2. More interesting is that intraday graphs show sudden 10 min downward moves in the middle of the day. This started august 5 1993.It also falls in New York during the London afternoon fixing.

Now the correlation gold/dollar seems to be restored again. Can we expect more central bank intervention?Currently moving space for banks is becomming limited, they cannot put unlimited gold on the market.Therefore they only try to prevent sudden panics.

Thank you for the translation. From an American perspective, I find the words of foreigners more interesting. Especially in this unfolding situation. I often use online translators like Babelfish to decipher what foreign gold forums are talking about. (Shhhh... don't tell anyone! ;)

And like most Americans born to the Generation X, I only speak English and understand a little Spanish as it was practically a required course in Southern California.

Babelfish is good enough for understanding the basics of a foreign article, and the translations will probably improve over time.What this German guy said is pretty much in line with his articles, so this television appearance is mostly interesting for the exposure I reckon.

just before i go too much further down the rabbit hole, after reading anonymous's posts 1-3 (assuming the same person each time), i'm a little confused about what exactly he's suggesting re: green/bernank being true to their perspectives this entire time and that the endgame they're planning is the same one for which we're hoping. it sure doesn't feel like we're on the same team. please clarify on this if you can. i'll read the rest of this thread a bit more closely. thanks

To be honest, I would not worry too much about those comments. Perhaps there is something to what he says, perhaps he is grasping. I do not know. I did not look as closely at the number as I said I would. Perhaps it is worth another look.

But the idea that Bernanke is running some kind of a shadow gold standard doesn't strike me right. As I said to Anon, I did write about that same article previously.

"2004 Financial world crumbles - Dollar worthless2005 Free Energy discovered2006 Free Energy for everyone on Earth2007 Aliens visit earth2008 Teleportation discovered2009 A time of getting used to Bliss (lol - not much bliss right now)2010 Time Travel discovered2011 Consciousness Enlightened/End of Mayan Calendar"

as I heard Dr. Michio Kaku interviewed last year, he said that teleportion of a photo and an electron have absolutely happened, and that TP of larger objects is now an engineering, not a physics issue.

intriguing...even if much of the supposed mayan eschatological ideology has been hijacked for social programming purposes.

"But I would like to put forth the alternate view that perhaps it is just the end of the creation cycle which took 16 billion years."

this one is a hard one for me to swallow, from an astrophysics perspective. as I understand it, we are just now completing the full solar systemic galactic orbital period where T=24,000 years. i'm curious to hear more which might suggest we are entering a period which is tune w/some 16 billion. (btw, as an aside, I went to hear Leon Lederman speak recently and he said the universe is only about 13 3/4 bya. but then again, he was behind in telling us..again just a few weeks ago...that the Large Hadron Collider was to start operating some time in the future!!). anyway, i digress. the point being, i'm curious to hear more about this "universal" cycle. especially when I would argue that on a universal scale, our universe is not some 16 byo. but the time/space continuum seems to really f-ck things up for much of what we think is "time."

btw, even the completion of a solar systemic orbit through the galaxy would create a new "wave" if you will. so your thoughts on that being significant, aside from the 'universal' billions of years, are intriguing. we may just simply begin a new wave. i know this is on a much lower level than that cosmic wave-shift, but I wonder if we could have such shift w/out the Kuhnian paradigm cataclysm, or is such a cataclysm is necessary.

also, maybe it's because i'm thinking too much in terms of phsyics, but why after completing an orbital cycle would that necessitate a phase shift? and what do you think that phase shift will mean in terms broader than considering our current events (because that proximal context is simply too easy to transpose onto a future era and shift). nevermind...i think you've answered this, but in case you haven't, or it inspires further thinking, i'm leaving the question in.

interesting as well, according to Sagan, we're on a major cusp of entering into a type I civilization (w/a 50/50 shot, IIRC). but your phase shift seems to suggest that we will be devolutionarily reversing what could lead us to type I civilization. so do you think the concept irrelevant? not applicable? or that our reversal will also coincide w/a spiritual/technological enlightenment which will be accompanied by achieving that type I (or II, III, etc) status?

btw, i used to study under schroder in jerusalem at aish when i was quite young. very interesting ideas. btw, i am jewish, and, to add to my many hats, have degrees in jewish studies and history (among others) :) kudos to you in bringing gerald into this :) .

btw, i still haven't seen these videos, or read that article.

i won't get too much into the readings that have been done for me, but the specific theme of ethics/power and my role in that is apparent to anyone who "speaks with my spirit guides" or whatever terminology people resonate with. it's interesting. damn...i'm really sorry i missed this thread when it was live a while back.

for the record, i do not think 2012 (or 11) will be uneventful by any means. but i'm also not sure that I expect the upheavals, IF ANY, to be other than a self-fulfilling prophecy nature. with all the hype regarding this time period, and all the mainstream coverage thereof, it's hard not to think that it's embedding itself into a more cultural genetic meme of sorts and will influence thinking, expectations, behavior, etc., even if on a more jungian collective unconscious level.

interesting on a numerological bases for the date 8/5/1993 is an 8, the # for money. (it's not my field at all, and i have only a very superficial understanding of it, but thought it interesting to note).

fofoa, from an intellectual level, i quite agree, that it seems much information that flows outside our borders seems to be of a more reasoned and aware perspective than what's here often (not that keen wisdom doesn't exist here, or that it is ubiquitous and w/out prejudicial ignorance abroad).

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