PsiChick:Well, I actually found it fairly childishly disrespectful, since his intended meaning was clear, but then again I also found the Piss Christ childishly disrespectful. Beck gets a slightly higher score for 'childish' thanks to the bobblehead, but they're both idiots.

In defense of Piss Christ, Serrano created his work as a protest of the Catholic Church's positions on homosexuality at the height of the AIDS crises. It helps to know that Serrano is Spanish (a heavily Catholic country, where the church had strong ties with the then fascist government) and gay.

Serrano's work operates on many levels. If you don't know the story behind it, it's is a really beautiful image -- this ethereal crucifx suspended in a hazy glow of gold and crimson. That's where Beck's hack job really falls down. There is no challenge to Beck's work, because the resulting product is not beautiful.

If you know how he (Serrano) achieved the effect -- shooting through a mix of blood, urine and water -- then it presents a far deeper challenge. It challenges the viewer to ask which does more harm to the image of Christ in the popular conception, to suspend a crucifix is bodily fluids, or to use Christ as a cover for the politics of homophobia (which, at the time, were directly contributing to the spread of the AIDS epidemic, re: Silence = Death, etc.).

It's funny, but Serrano's Piss Christ -- which became a media sensation in 1989, when I was 13 -- is what got me interested in the fine arts in the first place, and was the first time I became aware of art as more than mere decoration. So thanks Jesse Helms!

Okay, seriously, wtf is going on with that blackboard behind him? How does that not just scream crazy to anyone who happens to look at it? Seriously, I had a friend who went to art school; dipping bobbleheads in urine doesn't even move the needle but that blackboard is creepy.

Look at it again, in all its glory. There is a man, in an apron, dipping a bobblehead of Obama into a jar of urine. The background is a chalkboard of crazy.

This one image has captured the entire essence of Glenn Beck, and the soul of the GOP.

This photo should win a Pulitzer. I'm half serious too, only because it looks like a screen-cap of video and doesn't have the candid feel needed for a Pulitzer. Now if someone off camera took a photo showing the whole staged production, I think I would pay money for that.

Johnny_Whistle:EnviroDude: robert mapplethorpe should sue him for stealing his idea

Which idea?

Stupid people often confuse Mapplethorpe and Serrano because both were "controversial" artists at about the same time in the 1980s. The fact that so many of those stupid people are still shrieking, 25 years later, about Mapplethorpe putting a crucifix into urine just shows how stupid those stupid people are.

Dansker:PsiChick:It actually really is, and if it were tinged blue I think it would be really beautiful. And, y'know, not urine, since someone with blue urine needs to see a doctor instead of making art.

You mean it's not supposed to be blue? TV commercials have been lying to me all these years?Yikes.

Gato Blanco:I think the best part about this whole fiasco is the fact that Glenn Beck put it up for auction on EBay for charity. The entire premise of the Obama in Pee Pee is, as was said, to "point out the hypocrisy" of liberals, who he assumes were going to cry like babies because "Dear Leader" was placed in a jar of piss, much like how Christians reacted to Piss Christ (and those durn durty libbies told them to get over it.)

Cue thirty minutes later-- EBay removed the object from sales because the EBay policy states body fluids cannot be sold.

Guess what? Glenn Beck and his ilk are now throwing a screaming shiatfest because they're offended that it was taken down. No, really, they are horrified that EBay wouldn't make an exception in their policy to get back at Fartbongo. Now, they're crying like babies because EBay didn't treat them like special children.

If this isn't the most deliciously ironic backfiring, I'm not sure what is.

Well, this just went from "Meh" to farking hilarious in short time. Never thought I'd see conservatives whine because they can't bid for urine on ebay. Link

skepticultist:PsiChick: Well, I actually found it fairly childishly disrespectful, since his intended meaning was clear, but then again I also found the Piss Christ childishly disrespectful. Beck gets a slightly higher score for 'childish' thanks to the bobblehead, but they're both idiots.

In defense of Piss Christ, Serrano created his work as a protest of the Catholic Church's positions on homosexuality at the height of the AIDS crises. It helps to know that Serrano is Spanish (a heavily Catholic country, where the church had strong ties with the then fascist government) and gay.

Serrano's work operates on many levels. If you don't know the story behind it, it's is a really beautiful image -- this ethereal crucifx suspended in a hazy glow of gold and crimson. That's where Beck's hack job really falls down. There is no challenge to Beck's work, because the resulting product is not beautiful.

If you know how he (Serrano) achieved the effect -- shooting through a mix of blood, urine and water -- then it presents a far deeper challenge. It challenges the viewer to ask which does more harm to the image of Christ in the popular conception, to suspend a crucifix is bodily fluids, or to use Christ as a cover for the politics of homophobia (which, at the time, were directly contributing to the spread of the AIDS epidemic, re: Silence = Death, etc.).

It's funny, but Serrano's Piss Christ -- which became a media sensation in 1989, when I was 13 -- is what got me interested in the fine arts in the first place, and was the first time I became aware of art as more than mere decoration. So thanks Jesse Helms!

It's certainly a noble goal, but I work in literature, and a huge part of having formatting rules here is that it spurs creativity. Writing a sonnet or haiku provides a pressure that free-form doesn't. So as much as I applaud the goals, I just think using urine was maybe the wrong metaphor there. Blood and water, for example, would have had very different nuances than adding urine; urine sort of cheapens it, and I think it was very much a bad idea to break that rule specifically.

A lot of art is breaking rules, but how you do it can turn into whether or not it's good.

/Generally, pissing on something sends a very different message than I think Serrano should have conveyed.

skepticultist:In defense of Piss Christ, Serrano created his work as a protest of the Catholic Church's positions on homosexuality at the height of the AIDS crises. It helps to know that Serrano is Spanish (a heavily Catholic country, where the church had strong ties with the then fascist government) and gay.

I, for one, did not know any of that. That puts an entirely different spin on it.

PsiChick:Dansker: PsiChick: I also found the Piss Christ childishly disrespectful.,

It was a cheap, poorly made plastic crucifix, so I've always seen it as a comment on the crass commercialization and cheapening of Jesus' message of universal love. But I could be wrong.To whom did you find it disrespectful?

/Artistic expression usually involves actual thought processes.

So does interpretation.

I found it childishly disrespectful because, whether or not it was symbolic, it was a highly important symbol to a major religion. Unless you have mental problems, it's practically impossible to not realize exactly how that's going to be taken, and therefore it's pretty likely that the intended message had nothing to do with the plastic of the cross.

People are dicks sometimes. Just because you slap the art label on it doesn't mean the artist wasn't being a dick too.

His point was to make you think about how televangeIists treat Christianity. I love how people can read books about all kinds of things and not think the writers mean it all literally, or see films and realize they are watching a story...but put an artist's image or a sculpture--one that is not flowers or puppies or "nice"--out there and the ignorant, unreflective knee-jerk reactions start flying immediately. OMG! Serrano hates Jesus and wants to drown him in piss! That artist is horrible for believing this!

I think the best part about this whole fiasco is the fact that Glenn Beck put it up for auction on EBay for charity. The entire premise of the Obama in Pee Pee is, as was said, to "point out the hypocrisy" of liberals, who he assumes were going to cry like babies because "Dear Leader" was placed in a jar of piss, much like how Christians reacted to Piss Christ (and those durn durty libbies told them to get over it.)

PsiChick:I found it childishly disrespectful because, whether or not it was symbolic, it was a highly important symbol to a major religion.

Maybe it shouldn't be, but that's a different discussion.

Unless you have mental problems, it's practically impossible to not realize exactly how that's going to be taken, and therefore it's pretty likely that the intended message had nothing to do with the plastic of the cross.

Easily offended Bible thumpers don't tend to show much interest in modern art photography, so it's unlikely they were the intended audience. Artist have produced controversial portrayals of Christ both before and after Seranno without causing worldwide condemnation and still inspiring anger a quarter of a century later. It was practically impossible to realize it would be taken like that.

It was a cheap, poorly made plastic crucifix, so I've always seen it as a comment on the crass commercialization and cheapening of Jesus' message of universal love. But I could be wrong.To whom did you find it disrespectful?

Headso:He of course realizes this will be controversial and that many will find his use of the Obama figurine to be disrespectful.

I don't think anyone would find it controversial if you put a bobblehead in piss. Typical example where conservatives don't understand context.

Well, I actually found it fairly childishly disrespectful, since his intended meaning was clear, but then again I also found the Piss Christ childishly disrespectful. Beck gets a slightly higher score for 'childish' thanks to the bobblehead, but they're both idiots.

This is just theater for his moronic audience who assume that liberals will be SOOOOOOOOOOO offended by this... primarily because they would. The whole is classic conservative projection.

"Liberals revere and worship Obama on an almost messianic level and consider him sacred! (they must, because that's how we view our leaders)"

"Oh boy... You go, Glenn! This will really get those liberals' panties in a twist...They're going to be livid at seeing the graven image of their dear leader so brazenly disrespected!!! (because that's how we'd feel if it were Ronald Reagan or George W. Bush or, if he'd been elected, Mitt Romney)"

Hell, the lionizing and glorification of Mitt had already begun when they thought he still had a chance.

My parents used to watch Beck when he was on Fox. I told them about the rumors that he raped and killed that girl in 1990.I just gave up when they just said, "well yea, he was an alcoholic, and he changed his life since then".

Phoenix_M:sigdiamond2000: Has there been a cultural event in American history that has obsessed the right-wing more than "Piss Christ?"

Seriously, people. It was 25 f*cking years ago and you're still on about it? Is the guy who did it even alive anymore?

For God's sake, let it go.

The artist is still alive and was back in the news in the last couple of months because the pisschrist was back on display in some cities MOMA. Beck was also responding to Jammie Fox who called President Obama "Our Lord and Savior" the other night.Becks planned worked he getting the at the attention he seeks which is why he makes about 6 million dollars a month and we don't.

Is it just me, or did it seem pretty obvious that Jamie Foxx was trolling conservatives when he said that? I was pretty sure I saw a smirk on his face as he was saying that.

theknuckler_33:The idea, for Beck however, is not to be untoward, but through irony, to highlight the hypocrisy of those who would shout in defiance at defacing the image of a sitting U.S. president, but not that of an image so sacred to Christianity - the world's largest religion.

Is anyone doing this?

I doubt it. Every Obama supporter I know eagerly looks forward to a new anti-Obama, crazy-ass Jon Naughton painting like a kid waiting for Christmas.

Jack Mackbell:First of all, nobody is comparing Barack Obama to Jesus but conservatives. Second of all, they have no place to poke fun at Barack Obama's personality cult considering that because of them, we're now discussing which presidential candidates are most Reagan-like.

I would add that Piss Christ has nothing to do with Christ the person, but that kind of subtlety doesn't translate well to everyone.

First of all, nobody is comparing Barack Obama to Jesus but conservatives. Second of all, they have no place to poke fun at Barack Obama's personality cult considering that because of them, we're now discussing which presidential candidates are most Reagan-like.

I'm still convinced that Glenn Beck is simply trolling. He used to routinely troll his listeners back when he was the afternoon drive time guy in Tampa, and when he wasn't trolling he'd always be a sane and reasonable conservative. This is the kind of stuff he'd do to troll too.

Stage scenery and props. He's playing up the "Beautiful Mind" mad scientist Hollywood archetype that has "cracked the secret code". Remember, his target audience believes what goes on in Honey Boo-Boo, Pawn Shop Wars and Duck Dynasty is "reality", and that the two guys wrasslin' in the ring really do hate each other.

The idea, for Beck however, is not to be untoward, but through irony, to highlight the hypocrisy of those who would shout in defiance at defacing the image of a sitting U.S. president, but not that of an image so sacred to Christianity - the world's largest religion.

Also, Beck and other Christian conservatives both criticize Muslims for going ape shiat when Mohamed is portrayed yet fail to see the hypocrisy in their manufactured outrage over an unaffiliated artists depiction of Jesus/Obama.

sigdiamond2000:Has there been a cultural event in American history that has obsessed the right-wing more than "Piss Christ?"

Seriously, people. It was 25 f*cking years ago and you're still on about it? Is the guy who did it even alive anymore?

For God's sake, let it go.

Heck, when I was in college, at my conservative Christian school, they had an art historian come lecture in chapel about depictions of Christ in art over the years and showing slides of "Piss Christ" in frikking chapel prompted zero controversy. That the right wing keeps freaking out is ridiculous.

I can't even pay attention to the Piss Christ Obama, because I'm too distracted by the flow chart of crazy on that blackboard. It brings me back to college, when I had a kid in my dorm hall who was beginning to suffer from the effects of schizophrenia and he drew on his dorm room wall exactly like that. Eventually his parents had to come pick him up and institutionalize him.

JerseyTim:It just goes to show how hard art is. Serrano's work, while disgusting, is at least strangely engaging. This just looks like something they'd sell at a rest stop.

Like everything Beck does, it's derivative and unoriginal. All he is is a patent medicine salesman, selling regurgitated GOP talking points to desperate rubes looking for reinforcement of their hate filled fantasies.