I love the dude. And i'm not saying cut him or anything but I think that is a position we should look to upgrade. I just feel like we really need somebody who is more athletic at that position. It seems like when we're trying to rush the passer on 1st or 2nd down its basically Clemons against 5 o'linemen and a fullback.

Next season I'd like to see Red moved back inside where hopefully he would be more successful then he was as a rookie. Then i'd like to see a more traditional DE in that spot opposite Clemons, someone athletic enough to rush the passer while not getting completely overpowered in the running game. With Irvin still rotating in as a pass rush specialist.

I think we could be the true #1 defense in the league with 4 relatively easy steps:

1. Replace Leroy Hill with a 1st round draft pick.

2. Replace Red Bryant with a more versatile player. Doesnt even need to be a double digit sack guy, but somebody who can bring some pressure. Keep Red as part of the d'line rotation.

3. Find a pass rushing DT. Again it doesnt need to be a superstar. Just somebody with Rocky Bernard type skills. Could already have it on the roster in Jaye Howard?

4. Have Thurmond or Lane, whoever wins the training camp battle take over for Tru full time.

Yeah I was thinking that today about Red. I think we should kick him inside he might be that Rocky Benard type player. We have to get some pass rush going people are just picking us apart on 3rd and longs. Thats whats holding this team back. Whats sad is you have seen some flashes of a good blitz team. The first half of the Greenbay game is what I want to see game in and game out. I know that is kind of hard to duplicate. Even if we had half of that effort in each game this would be a totally different team.

I think Red is fine where he's at. What we need is a replacement for Leroy Hill (like you said) with a 3rd rounder or so, someone who can rush the passer from the linebacker position, and we need to spend next years 1st round pick on a pass rushing monster of a DT who can collapse the pocket and force the QB to go outside to Clemons or Irvin. Red Bryant is fine where he's at, although he's had somewhat of a down year. We really need to get more creative with our blitzing. I really think that if we use what we already have (plus a pass rushing monster DT) we can be one of the best pass rushing teams out there.

I think Red is fine where he's at. What we need is a replacement for Leroy Hill (like you said) with a 3rd rounder or so, someone who can rush the passer from the linebacker position, and we need to spend next years 1st round pick on a pass rushing monster of a DT who can collapse the pocket and force the QB to go outside to Clemons or Irvin. Red Bryant is fine where he's at, although he's had somewhat of a down year. We really need to get more creative with our blitzing. I really think that if we use what we already have (plus a pass rushing monster DT) we can be one of the best pass rushing teams out there.

Well, I agree that plan would also make us elite. But I dont see us being in position this offseason to find one of those elite pass rushing DT's. So I think my 4 step plan is easier to complete then this 1 step plan.

Dream Scenario: Ndomokong Suh wants out of Detroit to change the vibe in his career and demands to be traded back to his native northwest. (not going to happen, but man that woudl be amazing)

He was part of the reason we played the run well today. TO be honest, he usually is on most games. Guy locks down his edge. Clem on the other hand seemed to be over whelmed in the run game the last few games (maybe just the plays I caught). I think you keep Red at his spot with a Ware-type blitzing linebacker...or just KJ, he seems to blitz well enough when we send him. I would like us to replace Leroy with a stocky block shedding tackle machine. That way we have a DE that destroys the run and a Blitzy LB on one side and a blitzy DE and a LB that destroys the run on the other. That coupled with Jason Jones and Bam bam would amount to a fun scheme. So basically just replace Leroy.

I mentioned this in another thread, but I really do wander if this unconventional 4-3/3-4 hybrid scheme we run is too predictable for opposing O's. I too love Red and his great run stop but having to rotate him for pass rush seems to be a bit of an issue. I think we really do need to figure something out there.

I also agree w/ the pass rush penetrating 3 tech DT need. We definately lack that middle pressure to prevent the QB stepping up in the pocket. Absolutely agree w/ the LBer upgrade as well.

I think we really need a much quicker (quick as opposed to fast) CB, even if they are smaller (5-10+ range) for our nickel back. If T3 or Lane is the guy and can stay healthy, great. If not, then we need to find them to get this D where it needs to be.

I disagree....here's why: he's hurt. He's probably playing at 65% efficiency with his Plantar Fasciitis. Remember how great he was last year? He was the main reason that we had a top run stuffing D. This year our run stuffing D sucks because he is playing at a far lower level.

I'm fine with Red. He's way down the list of players I would want replaced.

I kind of want Steven Hauschka replaced, but I think that's because I live in St. Louis and have had to watch Greg Zuerlein all season. That dude is unreal. His 54-yard game winner today looked like it had another 15 yards on it.

To be honest, I love Red too much to give up on him after one mediocre year. (its not even a BAD year!) He gives it his all, and is normally a force in the run game. I just think that with the addition of Irvin that the defense is having trouble balancing a great pass rusher with a great run stopper. IMO, our defense would be better as a 3-4 with Branch, Mebane, Red and Clem, KJ, Wagner, Irvin as the linebackers on passing downs. We just need to get more creative with how we use our talent, but if we draft a strong defensive lineman who can collapse the pocket, I think that will move us up into the next level.

I don't know if Gus Bradley is the guy to coordinate our defense... There I said it.

We need to change, our offense is going to get more and more dynamic, and Pete's overwhelming emphasis is turnovers. We aren't getting enough of them. Earl Thomas is a great Safety. Richard Sherman is a great corner back. Walter Thurmond can BE a great corner back. Brandon Browner is ok. They can get those turnovers if the pass rush can generate pressure. A vanilla defense just doesn't force turnovers in this league. If we can draft a strong pass rushing DT in the first, (we don't need ELITE!) draft a linebacker in the 3rd, and replace Gus Bradley with a mad genius of a Defensive coach, we can get to that elite defense status.

We will win a Superbowl. I will place my sig on that.

If Gus Bradley is replaced next year (or the year after), and we draft a DT in the first or second round, I guarantee we will win a Superbowl within 2 years of that happening. GUARANTEE! (I've had a drink or seven, so hopefully I got my thoughts across)

SilNWest wrote:To be honest, I love Red too much to give up on him after one mediocre year. (its not even a BAD year!) He gives it his all, and is normally a force in the run game. I just think that with the addition of Irvin that the defense is having trouble balancing a great pass rusher with a great run stopper. IMO, our defense would be better as a 3-4 with Branch, Mebane, Red and Clem, KJ, Wagner, Irvin as the linebackers on passing downs. We just need to get more creative with how we use our talent, but if we draft a strong defensive lineman who can collapse the pocket, I think that will move us up into the next level.

I don't know if Gus Bradley is the guy to coordinate our defense... There I said it.

We need to change, our offense is going to get more and more dynamic, and Pete's overwhelming emphasis is turnovers. We aren't getting enough of them. Earl Thomas is a great Safety. Richard Sherman is a great corner back. Walter Thurmond can BE a great corner back. Brandon Browner is ok. They can get those turnovers if the pass rush can generate pressure. A vanilla defense just doesn't force turnovers in this league. If we can draft a strong pass rushing DT in the first, (we don't need ELITE!) draft a linebacker in the 3rd, and replace Gus Bradley with a mad genius of a Defensive coach, we can get to that elite defense status.

We will win a Superbowl. I will place my sig on that.

If Gus Bradley is replaced next year (or the year after), and we draft a DT in the first or second round, I guarantee we will win a Superbowl within 2 years of that happening. GUARANTEE! (I've had a drink or seven, so hopefully I got my thoughts across)

Yea I know. I just don't think Brandon Browner is a world beater. He's a guy who plays his heart out on every down, but just can't quite play quick enough to be a consistent cornerback against any good receiver. I'm not saying he's a bad player, its just that now that opposing offenses know what he's all about he can be schemed against. I don't think he should be replaced immediately, but I do think that Thurmond is the better all round player.

I'm probably just splitting hairs though honestly, I'm always looking to upgrade our team, and I see Browner as the most easily upgraded player in our secondary (even though he would be starting for 20 other teams lol)

Rat wrote:I'm fine with Red. He's way down the list of players I would want replaced.

I kind of want Steven Hauschka replaced, but I think that's because I live in St. Louis and have had to watch Greg Zuerlein all season. That dude is unreal. His 54-yard game winner today looked like it had another 15 yards on it.

I totally agree with wanting to replace Haushcka, or at least bring in some competition in the off season. He seems to have a hard time booting the ball out of the endzone on kickoffs. Luckily, our specials teams coverage has been good and a lot of run backs end up not getting to the 20. That, and I don't really trust him to make field goals.

If Red could be as effective from the DT position as he has been at DE then I would be totally for moving him inside, but that's the big question - Pete said that he was just too big to play at DT and found it difficult going against Guards that are smaller than him (as opposed to TEs and Tackles who are rarely under 6'5) but seeing as Branch does alright I think there's reason for trying him out in there again. If Irvin can have some impact in the run game then he could become the 3-down lineman across from Clemons that strikes fear into the QB EVERY down and not just on 3rd downs.

Yea I know. I just don't think Brandon Browner is a world beater. He's a guy who plays his heart out on every down, but just can't quite play quick enough to be a consistent cornerback against any good receiver. I'm not saying he's a bad player, its just that now that opposing offenses know what he's all about he can be schemed against. I don't think he should be replaced immediately, but I do think that Thurmond is the better all round player.

I'm probably just splitting hairs though honestly, I'm always looking to upgrade our team, and I see Browner as the most easily upgraded player in our secondary (even though he would be starting for 20 other teams lol)

BB can be beaten, the huge plus he brings is that WRs don't want to go up against him, like Kam in the middle - they hear footsteps and start worrying. He's always going to be targetted more simply because we have Sherman on the other side that QBs want to stay away from, so Browner will be matched up against number 1 receivers more often than most good CBs would be.

Remember Brandon Marshall is an elite WR on the same level as Megatron and Fitz - the guy had 2 1000 yard seasons with Matt Moore at QB, and another one with benched-for-Tim-Tebow Kyle Orton tossing the ball. The only 2 seasons he had with Cutler were Cutler's first 2 seasons as a starting QB (and he still hit over 1000 yards in each)

Red Bryant is basically like a good 3-4 end. 3-4 ends are not expected to be pass rushers, they are expected to keep linemen busy and stop the run. Pass rush is a bonus.

That's all well and good, and honestly I don't think Bryant would be a problem at all if Seattle's defense operated more like a 3-4 style defense.

3-4 defenses are built around the blitz. 4-3 defenses are built around "base" (aka front four) pressure. Since Irvin, Clemons, and Bryant are all closer to being 3-4 types, it makes sense that Seattle's pass rush has always looked it's best on the blitz. As I recall, only 8 of Clemons 22 sacks in 2010 and 2011 came from a base pass rush.

So short answer- yes, we'd definitely be better off with a typical 4-3 end manning Bryant's spot so long as Pete insists on trying to get sacks with a base pass rush. But if Pete is willing to blitz more, then I think Bryant would fit that kind of defense well enough.

But in the meantime, the team is basically paying Bryant $7 million per season as a guy that's basically a misfit in Pete's ultimate 4-3 defense. I hope Pete realizes this, and either reverts his defense to being more blitz heavy or searches for Bryant's replacement. Nothing against Bryant, but the $7 million salary average he has is a really big piece of incentive to look for his replacement.

Keep in mind- Bryant's salary in 2013 is fully guaranteed. So if the team wants to move on from Bryant, it won't be painless to do so until 2014 (barring a trade).

Red Bryant is basically like a good 3-4 end. 3-4 ends are not expected to be pass rushers, they are expected to keep linemen busy and stop the run. Pass rush is a bonus.

That's all well and good, and honestly I don't think Bryant would be a problem at all if Seattle's defense operated more like a 3-4 style defense.

3-4 defenses are built around the blitz. 4-3 defenses are built around "base" (aka front four) pressure. Since Irvin, Clemons, and Bryant are all closer to being 3-4 types, it makes sense that Seattle's pass rush has always looked it's best on the blitz. As I recall, only 8 of Clemons 22 sacks in 2010 and 2011 came from a base pass rush.

So short answer- yes, we'd definitely be better off with a typical 4-3 end manning Bryant's spot so long as Pete insists on trying to get sacks with a base pass rush. But if Pete is willing to blitz more, then I think Bryant would fit that kind of defense well enough.

But in the meantime, the team is basically paying Bryant $7 million per season as a guy that's basically a misfit in Pete's ultimate 4-3 defense. I hope Pete realizes this, and either reverts his defense to being more blitz heavy or searches for Bryant's replacement. Nothing against Bryant, but the $7 million salary average he has is a really big piece of incentive to look for his replacement.

Keep in mind- Bryant's salary in 2013 is fully guaranteed. So if the team wants to move on from Bryant, it won't be painless to do so until 2014 (barring a trade).

Thanks Kearly, that was part of what I was trying to say, but I've had a couple too many drinks to expand on every thought as thoroughly as you do.

I agree with all your points except Red. We just need to start using him more efficiently/effectively. Will extend his career and help the team at the same time.

Good point about Red being basically a 3-4 DE Kearly, and, to extend your point, if indeed PC wants to generate pressure from just the front 4, ala the G-men, then we could use another 4-3 DE to replace Clem.