On Sat, 3 Jun 2006, bulia byak wrote:
> Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Inkscape 0.44 Hard Freeze
>
> On 6/3/06, Ben Fowler <ben.the.mole@...> wrote:
> > FWIW, I suspect that we may have to ask the parties who hold strong
> > views, such as Alan, the Drivers such as Bulia and the Translators to
> > give us pros and cons for two basic alternatives:
> >
> > A. We agree that the present name "Effects" is wrong, but delivering
> > Effects "On" in version 0.44 is so important that we will use this
> > name (perhaps merely as a placeholder) and fix the UI in the next
> > release.
> >
> > B. We agree that a coherent UI is so important that we will leave
> > Effects "Off" in version 0.44 and turn them on by default when the UI
> > is fit for public use.
>
> No wonder this thread grew to 20+ messages.
The number of comments is an overly simplistic way to judge a
conversation. Anway at least of third of the message were about ellipses
but it does go to show how rough the extensions still are.
> Is no one listening to what I'm saying?
Yes I am listening and continuing to respond but I'm not agreeing. You as
a developer and very skilled technical user are biased, and it seems like
you almost always take the counter point to what I suggest.
You have very good English but you are a non-native speaker and yet
without hint of doubt and leaving little room for negotiation you are
making strong statements on what you consider the correct label.
No interest at all was shown in report in the tracker. That may only show
not enough people are reading the reports rather than not having any
opinions but it still isn't good. (bulia does comment extensively in the
tracker, this comment is directed at the other naysayers.)
> For me it's neither A nor B, but C: leave "Effects" alone forever.
> It's perfectly logical and in place.
This is the precedence argument again. It does have a certain logic to it
but so does my proposal so any claims of logic are moot.
The notion of commit first ask question later falls flat if there is no
willingless to change things later.
> Any arguments for "Effect" I've heard so far were very unconvincing.
The arguments are not being treated equally.
> And even if I agreed to the name change, of course disabling effects
> for the release because of this is simply out of the question.
To say something is "out of the question" is unambiguously blunt and shows
an unwillingness to discuss this. Is Inkscape to be run on a veto system
because that is what your previous comment sounds like? Bryce was
initially encouraging and there were several comments which didn't mind
either way (which I intially though was bulias opinion too but in
hindsight he was agreeing with a differnt part of the same message). A
straw poll might suggest people prefer not to change but the argument was
not definative, please step back if you do not care to discuss it further.
> Can we please drop this subject?
When has that question ever worked in an online discussion?
--
Alan

On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 09:36:51PM +0300, Spyros Blanas wrote:
> IMHO, this has gone too far. I mean, 20+ messages for what? For an "s"?
> Come on, you would all have fixed some bugs in the time it took to write
> all these e-mails. :-)
Sometimes these threads look more productive at the outset than they
turn out. Certainly it is rare for Alan and Bulia to find themselves
seeing eye to eye on a ui issue. But if nothing else this thread
probably got a lot of people thinking more on ui issues.
I'm glad a concensus was reached that no change should be made prior to
the release. Sounds like the concensus favors keeping Effects, but
there seems to be less opposition to adding ellipses and shortcut keys
as long as its done after 0.44.0.
I think it's important that we don't get too caught up in achieving
absolute perfection right out of the gate. Our strength as an open
source project, is optimization through iteration. Our challenge is to
keep discussions civil and to stay open minded to new ideas.
Bryce

On Sat, 3 Jun 2006, Ben Fowler wrote:
> On 03/06/06, David Himelright <himelright.2@...> wrote:
> > I'm building at home on a Tiger (10.4.6) G4 system, and we've got
> > some G5s at work running other versions.
> >
> > Incidentally, I wish our lab had some Intel Macs so I could offer to
> > patch the packaging scripts for universal binary, but I might be able
> > to find one if I look around.
>
> David, we very definitely need someone to investigate producing a
> Universal Binary for version 0.44; I cannot see my way to doing
> anything about it.
There is a request in the tracker for Universal binaries, please add a
comment if you have time. I marked it very low priority since despite
being something we'd all like in theory, it is highly dependant on the
availability of hardware and developers and we'd be very lucky for it to
happen at all.
Dont suppose Apple provide a free cross compiler? I'm well pleased by the
cross compiled Inkscape binaries for windows.
--
Alan

Threads wont seem so long if you change the subject as necessary.
Apologies to those whose mail clients dont support threading properly.
On Sat, 3 Jun 2006, Spyros Blanas wrote:
> IMHO, this has gone too far. I mean, 20+ messages for what? For an "s"?
> Come on, you would all have fixed some bugs in the time it took to write
> all these e-mails. :-)
but complaining about he mails only adds more traffic, like long
discussions about spam.
however I addressed several seperate issues in one mail which in part
accounts for the length of the discussion.
Unfortunately until I brought up the issue the bug reports had received
few if any comments and haven't received any additional comments since.
> Having witnessed many discussions in the few months I am monitoring this
> list, it seems that UI is a hot issue.
This is a good thing, better to hammer out the issues here and write
honest self aware release notes than gloss over flaws and wait until some
reviewer bitches about it. Most projects claim to want feedback (many
only really want patches though).
> I am planning on working on a UI customizer (like OpenOffice and most
> KDE apps have) to allow a user to change the UI as he sees fit (adding
> extra menus, changing toolbars, changing shortcut keys).
Will be good to have.
> I hope such functionality will make such issues easier to resolve and
> will actually lighten the burden on the devel team, so that it doesn't
> make permanent UI decisions (and gets the blame).
I dont think there was any question of blame but there is a tendency for
whatever gets committed first to stick, the assumption being that whoever
went before must have given it lots of thought.
Even then the question of good defaults remains and you still need to
balance the needs of settings things up in a way that is friendly to
beginners but without making it painful for more experienced users to set
things up the way they prefer (think Firefox).
> However, I am pretty busy for the next weeks and I will start looking
> into it after that. I can't guarantee anything, but judging from a very
> quick code sweep it certainly looks feasible.
Best of luck
Sincerely
Alan Horkan
Inkscape http://inkscape.org
Abiword http://www.abisource.com
Open Clip Art http://OpenClipArt.org
Alan's Diary http://advogato.org/person/AlanHorkan/

--- bulia byak <buliabyak@...> wrote:
> On 6/3/06, Ben Fowler <ben.the.mole@...> wrote:
> > FWIW, I suspect that we may have to ask the parties who hold strong
> > views, such as Alan, the Drivers such as Bulia and the Translators
> to
> > give us pros and cons for two basic alternatives:
> >
> > A. We agree that the present name "Effects" is wrong, but
> delivering
> > Effects "On" in version 0.44 is so important that we will use this
> > name (perhaps merely as a placeholder) and fix the UI in the next
> > release.
> >
> > B. We agree that a coherent UI is so important that we will leave
> > Effects "Off" in version 0.44 and turn them on by default when the
> UI
> > is fit for public use.
>
> No wonder this thread grew to 20+ messages. Is no one listening to
> what I'm saying?
>
> For me it's neither A nor B, but C: leave "Effects" alone forever.
> It's perfectly logical and in place. Any arguments for "Effect" I've
> heard so far were very unconvincing.
>
> And even if I agreed to the name change, of course disabling effects
> for the release because of this is simply out of the question.
>
> Can we please drop this subject?
>
Couldnt agree more, I still dont believe theres anything wrong with
what we have. I agree we need to add the _ when we do 0.44.1, but the
idea that we disable something as positive for the users as effects
because of something so minor is just daft.
__________________________________________________
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Bob,
I still haven't tested it myself, but in your howto.svg, the dark
areas of the horse are rendered light, so it looks somewhat like a
negative. This looks like a bug to me. Do you think you can fix it?
--
bulia byak
Inkscape. Draw Freely.
http://www.inkscape.org

I just committed a new blurring code which works much faster by using
subsampling and linear interpolation. Of course this is somewhat at
the expense of quality, but I think the quality is still acceptable,
yet now it renders with tolerable speed, even at high zooms, which
makes blur actually usable. (Check it out in the svg-filters branch!)
I think eventually we'll need to provide a user option to set the
level of subsampling to accommodate different hardware performance, as
well as to make sure it's turned off during bitmap export, for maximum
quality of the exported image.
--
bulia byak
Inkscape. Draw Freely.
http://www.inkscape.org

On Jun 3, 2006, at 4:26 PM, Ben Fowler wrote:
> On 03/06/06, David Himelright <himelright.2@...> wrote:
>> Hmm, that is odd. I've been working from svn, hacked path-prefix.h up
>> a few weeks ago. I'm thinking that the issue was fixed in source
>> control before I even raised the issue. I've nuked the patched
>> version of path-prefix.h and re-checked out from svn (12184), now
>> rebuilding from source, and it looks like the defines are all in
>> place now.
>
> Are you saying that the problem is inactive? You seem to have been
> doing the same as I, and touch wood, it is O.K. for me.
Yes, unambiguously, yes! My version was bogus. SVN builds for me now,
I'm running a fresh compile as I type this.
>
>> Re: building universal binaries - I certainly can cross-compile on a
>> PPC system. The step I'd need to take first though would be to
>> completely isolate my build system - including dependencies. I'm
>> currently building support libraries with fink-unstable and while
>> that takes a lot of the work out of patching and configuring
>> dependencies, it also leaves a bit of a mess. I'll see what I can do
>> today about cleaning up, isolating and rebuilding dependencies (gtk,
>> gtkmm, pango) from source outside of the system path.
>
> There was something on the list about two weeks ago, and whilst I
> haven't built on Tiger since then, I beleive that the ;standard
> methods' are working.
>
I'll look at the build doc and try to get things scripted out using
the canonical process, now that I've run the gauntlet a couple of
times with training wheels (using the package manager).
Thanks Ben,
--David
> Ben.
>
>> On Jun 3, 2006, at 3:12 PM, Ben Fowler wrote:
>>> On 03/06/06, David Himelright <himelright.2@...> wrote:
>>>> I'm building at home on a Tiger (10.4.6) G4 system, and we've got
>>>> some G5s at work running other versions.
>>>>
>>>> Incidentally, I wish our lab had some Intel Macs so I could
>>>> offer to
>>>> patch the packaging scripts for universal binary, but I might be
>>>> able
>>>> to find one if I look around.
>>>
>>> David, we very definitely need someone to investigate producing a
>>> Universal Binary for version 0.44; I cannot see my way to doing
>>> anything about it.
>>>
>>> You might want to look at
>>> http://developer.apple.com/opensource/
>>> buildingopensourceuniversal.html
>>> which I came acroos about a week ago whilst looking for something
>>> else.
>>>
>>> On your problem: The page at
>>> http://inkscape.modevia.com/doxygen/html/path-prefix_8h-source.php
>>> differs from my checked out version.
>>>
>>> Are you working from svn or from some tarball?
>>>
>>>> On Jun 3, 2006, at 2:37 PM, Ben Fowler wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 03/06/06, Jon A. Cruz <jon@...> wrote:
>>>>>> On Jun 3, 2006, at 10:57 AM, David Vincent Himelright wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> FYI, I just joined inkscape-devel and I'm building on Mac OS X/
>>>>>>> PPC.
>>>>>>> There are some redefinitions of preprocessor macros in path-
>>>>>>> prefix.h
>>>>>>> that break the build on my platform (CREATE_GRADIENTSDIR,
>>>>>>> CREATE_PALETTESDIR, CREATE_PATTERNSDIR).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can you point out which OS X version, etc. you have?
>>>>>
>>>>> This is a True Bill, but I thought that it been fixed in svn.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Inkscape-devel mailing list
> Inkscape-devel@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel

On 6/3/06, Alan Horkan <horkana@...> wrote:
> > It would simply not fit into one menu,
>
> Submenus will be needed anyway.
...and the most logical way to separate some commands into a submenu
would be to get all path-related commands into a Path submenu. Which
will put us back where we started.
You seem to be mixing different aspects. Of course automatically
converting to path when necessary is a good thing, and we do it in
some cases already and will keep adding more of it. But, with or
without autoconversion, the user needs some way to categorize and make
sense of the awful lot of commands he has available. Separating
path-related commands is the most natural thing to do, because these
commands are conceptually different from all others. This is just the
most very logical categorization, which helps users navigate in the
commands. Whether they are in a separate menu or in a submenu in
Object is secondary, though the latter option just adds clumsiness
without any other benefit.
--
bulia byak
Inkscape. Draw Freely.
http://www.inkscape.org

Ben Fowler wrote:
> FWIW, I suspect that we may have to ask the parties who hold strong
> views, such as Alan, the Drivers such as Bulia and the Translators to
> give us pros and cons for two basic alternatives:
>
> A. We agree that the present name "Effects" is wrong, but delivering
> Effects "On" in version 0.44 is so important that we will use this
> name (perhaps merely as a placeholder) and fix the UI in the next
> release.
>
> B. We agree that a coherent UI is so important that we will leave
> Effects "Off" in version 0.44 and turn them on by default when the UI
> is fit for public use.
>
> (Apologies if this offends anyone identifiable above, and apologies if
> I missed off the name of anyone whose name I should have included).
As for the matter discussed, having done some work on the Greek
translation, I think that it's pretty late for any changes now. However,
if we have reached consensus that the name is going to change for 0.44
the sooner it changes the better because it gives more time for
localization teams.
In Greek language, this is not an issue, both names ("effect" and
"effects") will get translated into the very same string. The word used
is a non-Greek noun (don't frown upon this Alan, all menu names are
nouns in Greek translations - I don't know why!), so its singular and
plural forms are the same.
Personally, when looking at menus nouns came first to mind. But of
course I am not a native English speaker so that may not be true for
everyone. I tend to agree with Bulia that Effects is better because it
refers to many things (hence the plural).
>
> Whilst I do have a view on this, which I will state if asked,
> personally I feel that UI is very, very important for Inkscape and we
> should either a) 'get it right', b) make it plastic - modifiable in
> later versions or c) state clearly that it highly subject to change
> over the next 55 releases (which is what I mean by public use).
>
> Your idea is a good one, and I would encourage you to provide it, but
> please note that a UI that needs to be set by the end user is not one
> I would propose unless your users are emacs/Lisp aficionados.
>
> Ben.
I proposed this in order to better handle case (b). I didn't have a
set-everything-up-yourself design in mind, but instead thought more of
having presets for various UI styles (like Inkscape native UI (the
current one), Corel Draw UI, Adobe Illustrator UI, etc.). And if a user
doesn't like the name of something, he can change it as he sees fit.
In this way, the UI decisions could be assigned to a different team that
would, for example, use feedback form usability evaluations or apply
human-computer interaction guidelines to get a more user-friendly and
consistent feel in menus, dialog boxes and status bar messages.
- Spyros Blanas

On 03/06/06, David Himelright <himelright.2@...> wrote:
> Hmm, that is odd. I've been working from svn, hacked path-prefix.h up
> a few weeks ago. I'm thinking that the issue was fixed in source
> control before I even raised the issue. I've nuked the patched
> version of path-prefix.h and re-checked out from svn (12184), now
> rebuilding from source, and it looks like the defines are all in
> place now.
Are you saying that the problem is inactive? You seem to have been
doing the same as I, and touch wood, it is O.K. for me.
> Re: building universal binaries - I certainly can cross-compile on a
> PPC system. The step I'd need to take first though would be to
> completely isolate my build system - including dependencies. I'm
> currently building support libraries with fink-unstable and while
> that takes a lot of the work out of patching and configuring
> dependencies, it also leaves a bit of a mess. I'll see what I can do
> today about cleaning up, isolating and rebuilding dependencies (gtk,
> gtkmm, pango) from source outside of the system path.
There was something on the list about two weeks ago, and whilst I
haven't built on Tiger since then, I beleive that the ;standard
methods' are working.
Ben.
> On Jun 3, 2006, at 3:12 PM, Ben Fowler wrote:
> > On 03/06/06, David Himelright <himelright.2@...> wrote:
> >> I'm building at home on a Tiger (10.4.6) G4 system, and we've got
> >> some G5s at work running other versions.
> >>
> >> Incidentally, I wish our lab had some Intel Macs so I could offer to
> >> patch the packaging scripts for universal binary, but I might be able
> >> to find one if I look around.
> >
> > David, we very definitely need someone to investigate producing a
> > Universal Binary for version 0.44; I cannot see my way to doing
> > anything about it.
> >
> > You might want to look at
> > http://developer.apple.com/opensource/buildingopensourceuniversal.html
> > which I came acroos about a week ago whilst looking for something
> > else.
> >
> > On your problem: The page at
> > http://inkscape.modevia.com/doxygen/html/path-prefix_8h-source.php
> > differs from my checked out version.
> >
> > Are you working from svn or from some tarball?
> >
> >> On Jun 3, 2006, at 2:37 PM, Ben Fowler wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 03/06/06, Jon A. Cruz <jon@...> wrote:
> >>>> On Jun 3, 2006, at 10:57 AM, David Vincent Himelright wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> FYI, I just joined inkscape-devel and I'm building on Mac OS X/
> >>>>> PPC.
> >>>>> There are some redefinitions of preprocessor macros in path-
> >>>>> prefix.h
> >>>>> that break the build on my platform (CREATE_GRADIENTSDIR,
> >>>>> CREATE_PALETTESDIR, CREATE_PATTERNSDIR).
> >>>>
> >>>> Can you point out which OS X version, etc. you have?
> >>>
> >>> This is a True Bill, but I thought that it been fixed in svn.

On 6/3/06, Ben Fowler <ben.the.mole@...> wrote:
> FWIW, I suspect that we may have to ask the parties who hold strong
> views, such as Alan, the Drivers such as Bulia and the Translators to
> give us pros and cons for two basic alternatives:
>
> A. We agree that the present name "Effects" is wrong, but delivering
> Effects "On" in version 0.44 is so important that we will use this
> name (perhaps merely as a placeholder) and fix the UI in the next
> release.
>
> B. We agree that a coherent UI is so important that we will leave
> Effects "Off" in version 0.44 and turn them on by default when the UI
> is fit for public use.
No wonder this thread grew to 20+ messages. Is no one listening to
what I'm saying?
For me it's neither A nor B, but C: leave "Effects" alone forever.
It's perfectly logical and in place. Any arguments for "Effect" I've
heard so far were very unconvincing.
And even if I agreed to the name change, of course disabling effects
for the release because of this is simply out of the question.
Can we please drop this subject?
--
bulia byak
Inkscape. Draw Freely.
http://www.inkscape.org

Hmm, that is odd. I've been working from svn, hacked path-prefix.h up
a few weeks ago. I'm thinking that the issue was fixed in source
control before I even raised the issue. I've nuked the patched
version of path-prefix.h and re-checked out from svn (12184), now
rebuilding from source, and it looks like the defines are all in
place now.
Re: building universal binaries - I certainly can cross-compile on a
PPC system. The step I'd need to take first though would be to
completely isolate my build system - including dependencies. I'm
currently building support libraries with fink-unstable and while
that takes a lot of the work out of patching and configuring
dependencies, it also leaves a bit of a mess. I'll see what I can do
today about cleaning up, isolating and rebuilding dependencies (gtk,
gtkmm, pango) from source outside of the system path.
--David
On Jun 3, 2006, at 3:12 PM, Ben Fowler wrote:
> On 03/06/06, David Himelright <himelright.2@...> wrote:
>> I'm building at home on a Tiger (10.4.6) G4 system, and we've got
>> some G5s at work running other versions.
>>
>> Incidentally, I wish our lab had some Intel Macs so I could offer to
>> patch the packaging scripts for universal binary, but I might be able
>> to find one if I look around.
>
> David, we very definitely need someone to investigate producing a
> Universal Binary for version 0.44; I cannot see my way to doing
> anything about it.
>
> You might want to look at
> http://developer.apple.com/opensource/buildingopensourceuniversal.html
> which I came acroos about a week ago whilst looking for something
> else.
>
> On your problem: The page at
> http://inkscape.modevia.com/doxygen/html/path-prefix_8h-source.php
> differs from my checked out version.
>
> Are you working from svn or from some tarball?
>
> Ben
>
>> On Jun 3, 2006, at 2:37 PM, Ben Fowler wrote:
>>
>>> On 03/06/06, Jon A. Cruz <jon@...> wrote:
>>>> On Jun 3, 2006, at 10:57 AM, David Vincent Himelright wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> FYI, I just joined inkscape-devel and I'm building on Mac OS X/
>>>>> PPC.
>>>>> There are some redefinitions of preprocessor macros in path-
>>>>> prefix.h
>>>>> that break the build on my platform (CREATE_GRADIENTSDIR,
>>>>> CREATE_PALETTESDIR, CREATE_PATTERNSDIR).
>>>>
>>>> Can you point out which OS X version, etc. you have?
>>>
>>> This is a True Bill, but I thought that it been fixed in svn.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Inkscape-devel mailing list
> Inkscape-devel@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel

On 03/06/06, David Himelright <himelright.2@...> wrote:
> I'm building at home on a Tiger (10.4.6) G4 system, and we've got
> some G5s at work running other versions.
>
> Incidentally, I wish our lab had some Intel Macs so I could offer to
> patch the packaging scripts for universal binary, but I might be able
> to find one if I look around.
David, we very definitely need someone to investigate producing a
Universal Binary for version 0.44; I cannot see my way to doing
anything about it.
You might want to look at
http://developer.apple.com/opensource/buildingopensourceuniversal.html
which I came acroos about a week ago whilst looking for something
else.
On your problem: The page at
http://inkscape.modevia.com/doxygen/html/path-prefix_8h-source.php
differs from my checked out version.
Are you working from svn or from some tarball?
Ben
> On Jun 3, 2006, at 2:37 PM, Ben Fowler wrote:
>
> > On 03/06/06, Jon A. Cruz <jon@...> wrote:
> >> On Jun 3, 2006, at 10:57 AM, David Vincent Himelright wrote:
> >>
> >>> FYI, I just joined inkscape-devel and I'm building on Mac OS X/PPC.
> >>> There are some redefinitions of preprocessor macros in path-prefix.h
> >>> that break the build on my platform (CREATE_GRADIENTSDIR,
> >>> CREATE_PALETTESDIR, CREATE_PATTERNSDIR).
> >>
> >> Can you point out which OS X version, etc. you have?
> >
> > This is a True Bill, but I thought that it been fixed in svn.

On 03/06/06, Spyros Blanas <sblanas@...> wrote:
> Ted Gould wrote:
> > On Sat, 2006-06-03 at 12:20 +0100, Alan Horkan wrote:
> [ snip ]
>
> IMHO, this has gone too far. I mean, 20+ messages for what? For an "s"?
Yes and no. Whilst I am sympathetic to your point of view, and had
thought of posting on the same lines, the fact is that this sort of
discussion is very necessary: Think of it as a form of calibrating
one's compass before going on a long march.
FWIW, I suspect that we may have to ask the parties who hold strong
views, such as Alan, the Drivers such as Bulia and the Translators to
give us pros and cons for two basic alternatives:
A. We agree that the present name "Effects" is wrong, but delivering
Effects "On" in version 0.44 is so important that we will use this
name (perhaps merely as a placeholder) and fix the UI in the next
release.
B. We agree that a coherent UI is so important that we will leave
Effects "Off" in version 0.44 and turn them on by default when the UI
is fit for public use.
(Apologies if this offends anyone identifiable above, and apologies if
I missed off the name of anyone whose name I should have included).
Whilst I do have a view on this, which I will state if asked,
personally I feel that UI is very, very important for Inkscape and we
should either a) 'get it right', b) make it plastic - modifiable in
later versions or c) state clearly that it highly subject to change
over the next 55 releases (which is what I mean by public use).
Your idea is a good one, and I would encourage you to provide it, but
please note that a UI that needs to be set by the end user is not one
I would propose unless your users are emacs/Lisp aficionados.
Ben.

I'm building at home on a Tiger (10.4.6) G4 system, and we've got
some G5s at work running other versions.
Incidentally, I wish our lab had some Intel Macs so I could offer to
patch the packaging scripts for universal binary, but I might be able
to find one if I look around.
--David
On Jun 3, 2006, at 2:37 PM, Ben Fowler wrote:
> On 03/06/06, Jon A. Cruz <jon@...> wrote:
>> On Jun 3, 2006, at 10:57 AM, David Vincent Himelright wrote:
>>
>>> FYI, I just joined inkscape-devel and I'm building on Mac OS X/PPC.
>>> There are some redefinitions of preprocessor macros in path-prefix.h
>>> that break the build on my platform (CREATE_GRADIENTSDIR,
>>> CREATE_PALETTESDIR, CREATE_PATTERNSDIR).
>>
>> Can you point out which OS X version, etc. you have?
>
> This is a True Bill, but I thought that it been fixed in svn.
>
> Ben.
>

On 03/06/06, Jon A. Cruz <jon@...> wrote:
> On Jun 3, 2006, at 10:57 AM, David Vincent Himelright wrote:
>
> > FYI, I just joined inkscape-devel and I'm building on Mac OS X/PPC.
> > There are some redefinitions of preprocessor macros in path-prefix.h
> > that break the build on my platform (CREATE_GRADIENTSDIR,
> > CREATE_PALETTESDIR, CREATE_PATTERNSDIR).
>
> Can you point out which OS X version, etc. you have?
This is a True Bill, but I thought that it been fixed in svn.
Ben.

Ted Gould wrote:
> On Sat, 2006-06-03 at 12:20 +0100, Alan Horkan wrote:
>>> that one of them may be current, and that the commands in this menu
>>> operate on that current effect. All of these assumptions are true for
>>> layers, objects, and paths, but none of them is true for effects.
>> However I pointed out Inkscape (and many other programs) have: File not
>> Files, Edit not Edits, Layer not Layers, View not Views. These are verbs
>> not nouns/objects which is what underlies your assumptions.
>>
>> It may not be the most reputable source but here is what I found in
>> Wikipedia:
>> "According to traditional human interface guidelines, menu names were
>> always supposed to be verbs, such as "file" "edit" and so on[citation
>> needed]. This has been largely ignored in subsequent UI developments."
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menu_%28computing%29
>
> Uhm, I don't think they're verbs.
>
> File - Actions that effect the "file" or the current data that you're
> working with. I would argue that Nautilus more adequately takes care of
> filing, which would be more organization of multiple files.
>
> Layer - Actions that effect the current "layer", as in the noun.
>
> But, in the end, it doesn't really matter. I have no problem adding the
> shortcut, but again, I think that really messes up translators. Fuzzy
> doesn't work there when many languages (especially Asian ones) have to
> do funny things with the shortcuts.
>
> --Ted
IMHO, this has gone too far. I mean, 20+ messages for what? For an "s"?
Come on, you would all have fixed some bugs in the time it took to write
all these e-mails. :-)
Having witnessed many discussions in the few months I am monitoring this
list, it seems that UI is a hot issue. I am planning on working on a UI
customizer (like OpenOffice and most KDE apps have) to allow a user to
change the UI as he sees fit (adding extra menus, changing toolbars,
changing shortcut keys).
I hope such functionality will make such issues easier to resolve and
will actually lighten the burden on the devel team, so that it doesn't
make permanent UI decisions (and gets the blame).
However, I am pretty busy for the next weeks and I will start looking
into it after that. I can't guarantee anything, but judging from a very
quick code sweep it certainly looks feasible.
- Spyros Blanas

On Jun 3, 2006, at 10:57 AM, David Vincent Himelright wrote:
> FYI, I just joined inkscape-devel and I'm building on Mac OS X/PPC.
> There are some redefinitions of preprocessor macros in path-prefix.h
> that break the build on my platform (CREATE_GRADIENTSDIR,
> CREATE_PALETTESDIR, CREATE_PATTERNSDIR).
Hi, and welcome.
Can you point out which OS X version, etc. you have?

FYI, I just joined inkscape-devel and I'm building on Mac OS X/PPC.
There are some redefinitions of preprocessor macros in path-prefix.h
that break the build on my platform (CREATE_GRADIENTSDIR,
CREATE_PALETTESDIR, CREATE_PATTERNSDIR).
It's pretty clear that most of the paths that now point to locations
inside of the application package should probably instead point to
the "Application Support" directory in an individual user's home
folder for application-generated data. It's less clear to me whether
it's a good idea to move a number of the other resource directories
outside of the app package simply to be more "mac like" (probably
more trouble than it's worth).
I'm planning to spend part of the weekend working on a little
extension for some linguistics features (syntax trees), but with
builds apparently slightly broken on OS X (one minor change
necessary), I'd be more than happy to contribute a patch, work with
the Mac module owner, and test.
David Himelright