TheRealWags asked the following question in another thread a while back and never got an answer from anyone. I have been considering an answer since he asked it though. Here is the question:

Quote:

For all my religious brothers here on current events:

How do you feel about the events occurring in the Middle East today? Egypt, Jordan, Sudan, Tunisia are all in disarray and could be experiencing big changes in their govts. How, if any way, do these events relate to your "end times" prophecies? Has another "seal" been broken? Could these events mark the "beginning of the end" in your religion's views?

I will not give a date, unlike Harold Camping. But, we can know the season. Also, DO NOT confuse this with Armagedon. This is not Armagedon. Most bible scholars believe this war will take place shortly before the rapture of the church. This attack will usher in the rise of the Anti-Christ who will then sign a 7 year peace treaty with Israel ( Biblicaly known as the covenant with death.) The moment the treaty is signed starts the clock on the final 7 years of world history.

Please take the time to read the following scripture and after I explain it, I will show you the time frame we should be looking at.

Quote:

Ezekiel 38

1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 "Son of man, set your face toward Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him 3 and say, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I am against you, O Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal; 4 and I will turn you about, and put hooks into your jaws, and I will bring you forth, and all your army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed in full armor, a great company, all of them with buckler and shield, wielding swords; 5 Persia, Cush, and Put are with them, all of them with shield and helmet; 6 Gomer and all his hordes; Beth-togar'mah from the uttermost parts of the north with all his hordes--many peoples are with you. 7 "Be ready and keep ready, you and all the hosts that are assembled about you, and be a guard for them. 8 After many days you will be mustered; in the latter years you will go against the land that is restored from war, the land where people were gathered from many nations upon the mountains of Israel, which had been a continual waste; its people were brought out from the nations and now dwell securely, all of them. 9 You will advance, coming on like a storm, you will be like a cloud covering the land you and all your hordes, and many peoples with you. 10 "Thus says the Lord GOD: On that day thoughts will come into your mind, and you will devise an evil scheme 11 and say, 'I will go up against the land of unwalled villages; I will fall upon the quiet people who dwell securely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having no bars or gates'; 12 to seize spoil and carry off plunder; to assail the waste places which are now inhabited, and the people who were gathered from the nations, who have gotten cattle and goods, who dwell at the center of the earth. 13 Sheba and Dedan and the merchants of Tarshish and all its villages will say to you, 'Have you come to seize spoil? Have you assembled your hosts to carry off plunder, to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to seize great spoil?' 14 "Therefore, son of man, prophesy, and say to Gog, Thus says the Lord GOD: On that day when my people Israel are dwelling securely, you will bestir yourself 15 and come from your place out of the uttermost parts of the north, you and many peoples with you, all of them riding on horses, a great host, a mighty army; 16 you will come up against my people Israel, like a cloud covering the land. In the latter days I will bring you against my land, that the nations may know me, when through you, O Gog, I vindicate my holiness before their eyes. 17 "Thus says the Lord GOD: Are you he of whom I spoke in former days by my servants the prophets of Israel, who in those days prophesied for years that I would bring you against them? 18 But on that day, when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, says the Lord GOD, my wrath will be roused. 19 For in my jealousy and in my blazing wrath I declare, On that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; 20 the fish of the sea, and the birds of the air, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep on the ground, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall quake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the cliffs shall fall, and every wall shall tumble to the ground. 21 I will summon every kind of terror against Gog, says the Lord GOD; every man's sword will be against his brother. 22 With pestilence and bloodshed I will enter into judgment with him; and I will rain upon him and his hordes and the many peoples that are with him, torrential rains and hailstones, fire and brimstone. 23 So I will show my greatness and my holiness and make myself known in the eyes of many nations. Then they will know that I am the LORD.

In short, the following nations, will attack Israel all at once, with every ounce of military force they have. No nation will come to Israel's defense. And GOD himself will step in and defend Israel. Not 1 Israeli will die in this attack. But, the attacking armies will be totally and utterly destroyed to the point that their nations cease to exist.

Here is a website with the invasion laid out on a map. It has the ancient names of the nations and the current names. ( However, I think they have Gomer wrong - I have always been taught that Gomer is Germany and France. )

ANCIENT NAMES OF MODERN NATIONSANCIENT NAME MODERN NATIONRosh (ancient Sarmatians known as Rashu,Rasapu,Ros and Rus) RUSSIAMagog (ancient Scythians) Central Asia (Islamic southern republics of the former Soviet Union with a population of 60 million Muslims)Meshech (ancient Muschki and Musku in Cilicia and Cappadocia) TurkeyTubal (ancient Tubalu in Cappadocia) TurkeyPersia (name changed to Iran in 1935) IranEthiopia (ancient Cush,south of Egypt) SudanLibya (ancient Put,west of Egypt) LibyaGomer (ancient Cimmerians from seventh century to first century B.C. in central/western Anatolia TurkeyBeth-Togarmah (Tilgarimmu between ancien Carchemish and Haran) Turkey

Here is a little more information of where these nations originated from.

Quote:

Genesis 10

1 Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood. 2 The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras. 3 And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah. 4 And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim. 5 By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations. 6 And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan. 7 And the sons of Cush; Seba, and Havilah, and Sabtah, and Raamah, and Sabtechah: and the sons of Raamah; Sheba, and Dedan. 8 And Cush begat Nimrod:

Mathew 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

In the parable, Israel is the fig tree. It's branch yet tender means that it is still young as a nation since it ,Putteth forth leaves, ( Came to be under it's own authority. ). The Generation that saw this was the World War 2 generation when, on May 28, 1948, Israel became it's own nation after nearly 2000 years of not being a nation.

There not very many left from the WW2 generation. It's going to happen soon. When you see this attack happen, Remember this thread. And see that it was prophesied to happen almost 4000 years ago. The Parable of the fig tree tells you when the season that it will happen is. And then realize the bible is right and GOD is real. And drop to your knees if you aren't saved, and pray for your salvation. You won't want to be left behind to face what comes next. We are coming down to hammer time folks. I think GOD set up the war of Gog and Magog to serve as 1 last warning to the unsaved. So, that many would believe in him and receive salvation just before the rapture. Let it be so.

Please take the time to read the entire post above. Digest it. And remember it. It WILL HAPPEN. Most likely, in your lifetime.When it does, you will remember this and realize that GOD is real.

Also, I had been debating if I wanted to post all this. I am putting myself out there to you guys. I am sure I will receive a large amount of criticism for it. But, it will be worth it if even 1 person is saved from the great tribulation because he/she read this thread and seen the war of Gog and Magog happen.

May 21st, 2011, 10:58 am

Rob_Shadows

3rd Round Selection

Joined: December 25th, 2005, 6:19 amPosts: 1188

Re: The war of Gog and Magog.

Uh huh...and you don't think the absence of the worlds most powerful nations aside from one (Russia) makes that little prediction impossible?

You really think something that like could possibly happen without the United States, United Kingdom, Germany, France, Italy, China, Japan, Canada, Australia, etc...saying or doing anything? It's just not plausible in today's world. A war on that scale could not happen without intervention in some form from those nations (and many others), either by being on one side of the battle or by using deterrence to prevent the war altogether.

One of two things would have to happen for this to even be possible.

A.) The prophecy would have to be altered to account for the fact that the most powerful of the worlds nations are not involved in any way shape or form (and don't try to create some b/s twisting of the words or vagueness allowing for interpretation to account for this, they are not mentioned, PERIOD).

or...

B.) The worlds power and policy would have to shift in such a way that would allow for those nations to band together against Isreal without the involvement of western powers.

Neither of which will be happening anytime soon so I wouldn't worry too much about the biblical end times being anytime soon. Short of Isreal losing their minds and Nuking Iran or something of the sort there is no real plausible scenario that would see the western powers such as the U.S and U.K allowing the invasion of Isreal by those nations, or the support of such an action. And your kidding yourself if you really think that even an alliance that large would ever risk open war with the major western powers, Russia and the nations of the former soviet union in particular would never go for it. Not to mention the extreme improbability that the nations of the former soviet union would ever support Russia in a military endeavor.

May 21st, 2011, 5:43 pm

Blueskies

QB Coach

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pmPosts: 3084

Re: The war of Gog and Magog.

Sorry, Billy.

What we all really need to prepare for is Ragnarok.

The "sons of Mím" are described as being "at play", though this reference is not further explained in surviving sources. Heimdall holds the Gjallarhorn into the air and blows deeply into it, and Odin converses with Mím's head. The world tree Yggdrasil shudders and groans. The jötunn Hrym comes from the east, his shield before him. The Midgard serpent Jörmungandr furiously writhes, causing waves to crash. "The eagle shrieks, pale-beaked he tears the corpse," and the ship Naglfar breaks free thanks to the waves made by Jormungandr and sets sail from the east. The fire jötnar inhabitants of Muspelheim come forth.

The völva continues that Jötunheimr, the land of the jötnar, is aroar, and that the Æsir are in council. The dwarves groan by their stone doors. Surtr advances from the south, his sword brighter than the sun. Rocky cliffs open and the jötnar women sink. People walk the road to Hel and heavens split apart.

The gods then do battle with the invaders: Odin is swallowed whole and alive fighting the wolf Fenrir, causing his wife Frigg her second great sorrow (the first being the death of her son, the god Baldr). The god Freyr fights Surtr and loses. Odin's son Víðarr avenges his father by rending Fenrir's jaws apart and stabbing it in the heart with his spear, thus killing the wolf. The serpent Jörmungandr opens its gaping maw, yawning widely in the air, and is met in combat by Thor. Thor, also a son of Odin and described here as protector of the earth, furiously fights the serpent, defeating it, but Thor is only able to take nine steps afterward before collapsing. After this, people flee their homes, and the sun becomes black while the earth sinks into the sea, the stars vanish, steam rises, and flames touch the heavens.

I know I'll be prepared. Will you?

May 21st, 2011, 6:54 pm

Nurosa

Pop Warner Rookie

Joined: October 15th, 2005, 1:56 pmPosts: 102

Re: The war of Gog and Magog.

In favor of Ragnarok this body will be abandoned in favor of fighting for Odin!

_________________“If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition and then admit that we just don't want to do it.”-Stephen Colbert-

The fact that western powers are not mentioned is evidence that they will all be involved in their own issues. We are printing money at an alarming rate. It's just a matter of time before our dollar has no value at all. With our money being worthless, our power becomes worthless.

May 22nd, 2011, 7:19 pm

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3056Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: The war of Gog and Magog.

Billy,

That is a very impressive amount of research, and effort to put together on behalf of someone who asked a question.

Don't worry about those who mock you, they will recall every word when they are standing on the wrong side of the line, and it will be to their shame. Don't let it trouble you, for that is what they are hoping for. Common sense would tell you that the U.S. economically is unable, and will be even more unable under this President and all of the damage he is doing. We will be unable to help Israel, in fact, you will see that no one will be able to assist Israel but God.

What is even more sad, is that in the book of Revelation, after the return of the Lord, and all of the verification of His 2nd coming that ALL will see, even then some will deny him. For all of those who request a sign, when they see it, they still will not be able to handle it.

Billy, I also want for you to know that it isn't up to you or me to win anyone for Christ. All we can do is live the truth, and do our best to maintain our own personal holiness. It is the Holy Spirit that will enlighten those who need salvation, and it is He that will convict them. We are just responsible for praying and doing our best to demonstrate the love of Christ, through being His hands and feet in this life.

Don't let ignorance and mocking upset you, just count yourself worthy, for Christ was mocked worse and persecuted more than we ever could be. As they did it to him, they'll do it to us - guaranteed!

_________________Acts 4:13, 1 Cor. 2:1-5, Rom. 12:1-2

May 22nd, 2011, 7:50 pm

Blueskies

QB Coach

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pmPosts: 3084

Re: The war of Gog and Magog.

As an atheist, I have lukewarm respect for some of the new testament.

But certainly not the ridiculous book of Revelation.

It was written by a dude in jail, who was most likely hallucinating. Most serious scholars interpret it as a metaphorical expose on the fall of the Roman empire.

It is little different than Nostradamus' drivel.

If he meant Central Asia, why didn't he just say Central Asia? If he meant Russia, why not just say Russia?

If believing this helps you sleep at night, then keep believing it. Anything I write here certainly won't change that. But it has absolutely no more validity than the legends of Ragnarok or the Mayan doomsday or any other civilizations' end time prophecy.

May 22nd, 2011, 10:48 pm

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3056Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: The war of Gog and Magog.

It was written by a dude in jail, who was most likely hallucinating. Most serious scholars interpret it as a metaphorical expose on the fall of the Roman empire.

Careful now, because you're starting to show your ignorance.

John, the author of Revelations, was actually EXHILED to the island where he saw the vision that later became the book of Revelations.

Now, have you ever seen something in a dream that you could not explain? Or better yet, have you ever seen something in a dream that you couldn't explain because you weren't EDCUATED?

The entirety of the Bible was written over a long period of time by 40 DIFFERENT authors, and yet the message flows from Genesis to Revelation as it should. Oh and the 40 Different authors ranged from simple fishermen, to doctors, and educated people.

Whether or not you choose to believe in it, bears NO weight in the authenticity of the Bible. The Bible has been proven to contain real stories, or real people, who lived real lives. Just because you don't wish to believe in it, because it doesn't support your world view, matters not the least.

I know of another famous Atheist that set out to prove that God was false, and by the time he was finished, he actually became a believer because of what he discovered in his journey. He even wrote a book about it called "Case for Christ." Lee Stovall is his name I believe.

I hope and will pray that you will be shown the truth so that you can make an educated decision based upon facts, and not false beliefs or false perspectives. Have a great week, and Go Lions!

_________________Acts 4:13, 1 Cor. 2:1-5, Rom. 12:1-2

May 22nd, 2011, 10:57 pm

Blueskies

QB Coach

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pmPosts: 3084

Re: The war of Gog and Magog.

I doubt Stovall was ever an atheist. If he was, he was because of ignorance, not an atheist because of rational thought. I've scanned some of his books.

Quote:

The entirety of the Bible was written over a long period of time by 40 DIFFERENT authors, and yet the message flows from Genesis to Revelation as it should.

Maybe the bible flows because it was originally 100 different books that were whittled down to a select few?

Maybe it doesn't flow at all. I certainly feel that the old testament is quite different in tone and scope from the new testament.

There certainly appears to be a lot of contradictions in the bible. I'm sure you can spin them and put them through a literally lens to the point where they don't appear to be contradictions but from an unbiased perspective there appears to be contradictions.

May 22nd, 2011, 11:23 pm

Blueskies

QB Coach

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pmPosts: 3084

Re: The war of Gog and Magog.

Anyway, I have no interest in arguing this further. I've argued this topic since I was about 14 years old. I'm done.

People get their religious beliefs as children when they are too young to put up an intellectual defense. When they hit puberty and if they acquire the skill of critical thinking, they may convert to atheism. Then their religious beliefs do not change for the rest of their lives unless they go through a traumatic experience, in which case they may "find god" or lose their religion. Also, when they get really old and the idea of their mortality kicks in, they may become religious/become more religious.

Other than that, nothing can change a person's religious beliefs. So there is no point in arguing. There are much more interesting topics to discuss.

May 22nd, 2011, 11:30 pm

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 9898Location: Dallas

Re: The war of Gog and Magog.

DevilDoc wrote:

Don't let ignorance and mocking upset you, just count yourself worthy, for Christ was mocked worse and persecuted more than we ever could be. As they did it to him, they'll do it to us - guaranteed!

And lets not forget even Jesus had his doubts in his own father, such as when he said "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

Oh and then their is the equally famous "Beware of false prophets" yet we are not allowed to question perhaps the biggest prophet of them all? Doesn't this force us to step back and question everything per the Bible's own teaching?

As for the original posting, I'm sure believers will be saying it will be happening soon 100, 200 and 500 years from now as they have throughout the past 2000+ years. That said, I'll keep an eye out Billy and if I do see the war of Gog and Magog occuring I'll get on my knees and pray for salvation, followed by a quick log onto the Lionbacker forum to say that you were right.

Blueskies, I had the name wrong it's Lee Strobel, not Stovall. And yes he was a self professed Atheist. Your opinion about how ATHEIST he was bears no relevance, because it's based upon your opinion. As for your beliefs you are entitled to them but I can only say that someday you will see. I do hope that you come to see the light so to speak but I'm not going to chase you are argue with you. You can run from an argument, you can run from belief, and you can even run from yourself, but you can't run from judgement, nor can you run from God, and eventually you'll see both.

Pablo: Jesus didn't doubt his father, he asked him where was he, why are you leaving me to go through this. Have you ever heard a medical definition of the crucifixion? It is one of the most gruesome, and horrible forms of death, and it was perfected to a science by the Romans. Now combine that death, with all of the torture that went before it, and tell me that in all humanity there is someone who would 1. not be delirious to some extent 2. wonder why your father in Heaven has forsaken you, 3. had the stones to go through with it, even though you were innocent of the charges.

_________________Acts 4:13, 1 Cor. 2:1-5, Rom. 12:1-2

May 23rd, 2011, 12:43 pm

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 9898Location: Dallas

Re: The war of Gog and Magog.

First, I don't think Jesus volunteered. Second, innocent of what charges? Did he not expel the money changers from the Temple? Did he not claim that he was "the son of God" and "King of the Jews" (and to this day the Jews still fail to recognize him as their King)? Did he not fail to answer Herod's questions?

Third, if I already knew what I was getting into as the son of God I wouldn't question my father, no matter how grueling (and wasn't he a healer by nature anyway?) You would think someone so "enlightened" would be able to heal himself or block out the pain.

BTW - as a father of two boys, I would do anything in my power to stop the pain of either one - your "God" must be a real terrible father indeed.

1st: our thoughts don't weigh into this one bit. Just because you don't wish to believe that Jesus chose to do what He did, doesn't mean that He didn't. It's documented, He did.

2nd: Which of any of those charges brought death under Roman law? NONE! Pilot, himself, the Roman official stated, I see no grounds for charges, so I "wash my hands" of this situation.

3rd: Jews were not allowed by Law to seek or conduct the death penalty, so they needed to go through the Romans. Thus the fake trial of Jesus, again documented, and again, no charges being found. But because it was a festival time, and Pilot was concerned about the rioting that could easily be caused (see middle east today), he offered to release one "condemned" prisoner. The Jews chose Barrabas, so Jesus got the penalty.

4th: I believe you are looking at this from a smaller perspective. God created mankind for relationship. Genesis 1:26 - 27. The deception of the devil brought doubt through Eve, which influenced Adam, and caused the fall of mankind. Because of this, the relationship was broken. Current example: Your wife cheats on you, is the relationship still the same afterwards? Do you forgiver her, and seek to restore the relationship or do you cut your losses and get a divorce? In order for sin to be atoned for, it required a blood sacrifice. This was first demonstrated in Genesis 3 when God took animals from the field slayed them, and made clothing for Adam and Eve. Prior to this, there was NO DOCUMENTED BLOODSHED ON EARTH, whether it was animal on animal or man on animal. All throughout the Old Testament, Jews were required to conduct certain atonement sacrifices for their "sins." But in the end, nothing man made could actually bridge the gap. Jesus being the Son of God knew this, and so the redemptive plan of God was to make a way for that relationship to be re-established.

In order for man to be completely atoned for, the sacrifice needed to be blood, but it needed to be PERFECT. Nothing on earth from the fall of man, to present can ever by perfect because we all have a fallen nature. So God moved upon Mary, or caused Mary to become pregnant and the child born was Jesus. Fully God, sired by the Spirit of God, but also fully man, meaning born of flesh. Jesus then lived out His life and became that sacrifice. He knew what he was facing that is why in the garden of Gethsemane he pleaded for the cup to pass from him, but if it must be, then "not my will but thine be done."

I am the father of a young girl and I, like you, would do absolutely anything to take away her pain, unless the pain she was suffering was actually for her own good. For example: Your son crashes his bike and really scrapes the heck out of his leg. You know that to leave it will bring infection, so you need to clean the wound in order to heal it right? So what do you do? You clean the wound, inflicting a littel bit of pain to prevent a future, much more difficult pain or sickness right?

I'm so sorry that your understanding of God is so harsh, and cruel, because in truth, I've never experienced love from a father like I do from Him. I wish I could go into details, but in truth, my details wouldn't matter to you or to anyone else, because He met me where I was at. Do you like to read? Would you read a book if I got it for you? I'm not out to prove a point, nor beat you with a Bible. If you would allow me, I would be more than happy to send you at NO COST, one or two books that may give you a different perspective. Neither book will tell you what you have to believe, but they will show you 1. how and why we men think and act as we do, 2. how God designed us for that relationship. If you perfer books on Cd, I will send you my personal copy, but I ask you again, are you willing to listen. I offer you that challenge, will you accept?