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Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

Yeah that's where we learned Mayuri modifies his zampato after every time he brings it out in bankai. Also has Mayuri been NOT paying attention to Orihime because when Aizen brought her to Hueco Mundo he pretty clearly made it known she makes things as if they never happened/existed.

Even if Ichigo get his bankai repaired, he'll still be an equivalent of a high ranking officer. I mean he was at least twice that of a captain with a full undamaged outfit. That being said if Ichigo develops his Quincy powers he could envelope external reishi along his sword to make it more powerful.

Wizard's First Rule: People will believe anything, either because they want it to be true, or they are afraid it is true.

Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

Originally Posted by LordRahl6

Yeah that's where we learned Mayuri modifies his zampato after every time he brings it out in bankai. Also has Mayuri been NOT paying attention to Orihime because when Aizen brought her to Hueco Mundo he pretty clearly made it known she makes things as if they never happened/existed.

Even if Ichigo get his bankai repaired, he'll still be an equivalent of a high ranking officer. I mean he was at least twice that of a captain with a full undamaged outfit. That being said if Ichigo develops his Quincy powers he could envelope external reishi along his sword to make it more powerful.

Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

Let's count the times Orihime could have dealt with things after learning she has god-like super powers:
1. She could have destroyed the otherwise indestructible Hogyoku after Aizen was beaten, meaning we could have executed him and removing him as a threat forever. Instead she just played nurse to Ichigo like she always does.
2. Undo Ichigo's loss of Soul Reaper powers. True, it makes (or would have made) a better ending, but it would have kept him from spending seventeen months moping about and we could have avoided the Fullbring arc altogether.
3. Fix-up Momo. Toshiro would still have had the motivation to train harder, not that we're ever going to see the results of it at this rate.
4. Fix Renji's bankai. Don't think Ikkaku would ask...though he did tell Mayuri, so maybe his too.
5. Fix Ichigo's bankai, and thus spare us from whatever idiocy is going to happen in the next few chapters.
6. Restore Soul Society, bring back every Soul Reaper who was killed and give Bach and his cronies a giant middle finger.
7. Restore the stolen Bankais, undo everyone's injuries. Shunsui would continue to wear the eyepatch because it makes him more badass.

5, 6, and 7 will not happen because she and Chad were sent home. For some reason.
Seriously, Kubo. If you're going to give someone other than Ichigo the power of deus ex machina at least have them use them once in a while, or give us believable reasons why they can't use them. I believe it was stated that Hachi from the Vizards has similar powers to Orihime, but he couldn't heal Ichigo's injuries from Grimmjow because of interference from the arrancar's "weird reiatsu," and Orihime was given the same excuse for not being able to heal him during the fight with Secunda Etapa Ulquiora, but she has brought four people back from the dead and Ichgio back from the brink of death. All five of these injuries were inflicted by arrancars, and three of them by Ulqiorra. Does he seriously care this little about plot consistency?

Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

I honestly think the worst of these is the first one. He ACTUALLY HAD THE IDEA TO TRY THIS, but then Aizen just said "no, go back to your tower and be a good plot item" and she just abandoned her really good plan.

Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

Originally Posted by Slayer Lord

Let's count the times Orihime could have dealt with things after learning she has god-like super powers:
1. She could have destroyed the otherwise indestructible Hogyoku after Aizen was beaten, meaning we could have executed him and removing him as a threat forever. Instead she just played nurse to Ichigo like she always does.
2. Undo Ichigo's loss of Soul Reaper powers. True, it makes (or would have made) a better ending, but it would have kept him from spending seventeen months moping about and we could have avoided the Fullbring arc altogether.
3. Fix-up Momo. Toshiro would still have had the motivation to train harder, not that we're ever going to see the results of it at this rate.
4. Fix Renji's bankai. Don't think Ikkaku would ask...though he did tell Mayuri, so maybe his too.
5. Fix Ichigo's bankai, and thus spare us from whatever idiocy is going to happen in the next few chapters.
6. Restore Soul Society, bring back every Soul Reaper who was killed and give Bach and his cronies a giant middle finger.
7. Restore the stolen Bankais, undo everyone's injuries. Shunsui would continue to wear the eyepatch because it makes him more badass.

2, 3, 4 and 5 I certainly agree with. 6 I don't think could happen, since when a spirit dies, it disappears completely, and Orihime still needs a tiny bit of substance to target with her powers. 7 might be possible, but only if the bankai are counted to actually be a part of the shinigami.

Otherwise she could be bringing back basically everything ever that was ever stolen or destroyed. In that particular case, I could actually see why Yamamoto wouldn't want to use her powers, believing that nobody should have that kind of power. He'd likely sooner want to have those powers gone, but he wouldn't kill her either, for obvious reasons.

1 would be a bad idea, since to get Aizen back to his state before he merged with the Hogyoku, she'd first have to reverse him back to him in the state of his highest evolution. And that'd be bad.

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Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

Originally Posted by Slayer Lord

2. Undo Ichigo's loss of Soul Reaper powers. True, it makes (or would have made) a better ending, but it would have kept him from spending seventeen months moping about and we could have avoided the Fullbring arc altogether.

Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

Originally Posted by Slayer Lord

Grimmjow stopped Loly and Menoly from bullying her by killing them. Then Orihime brought them back to life. Or at least Menolly died, not 100% about Loly.

Was that the only time a spirit body was left though? She was incinerated, but maybe she wasn't... "completely dead" so to say. The wiki says the top of her body was blasted away, so if the bottom was still left, it could've worked. In most cases I remember it's just that spirits who've been killed disappear completely, though admittably in nearly all cases it's a shinigami killing a Hollow or arrancar.

Prolly one of those inconsistencies that've build up over time.

Actually, I was thinking she'd use her Koten Zanshun to destroy the Hogyoku itself, not reverse time on him. Don't say scary stuff like that, man!

Oh! Yeah, that'd be a far better idea, if at all possible.

Orihime doesn't use that one often though, and its power depends upon her destructive intent.

Current Projects:EMPIRE! -- A Community World-Building Game full of role-playing and strategy

Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

Originally Posted by Morph Bark

When did she do that?

The only time I recall Orihime healing Hollows or anything of the sort was with Grimmjoww's arm.

As said below, Loly and Menoly. Who are gigantic JERKS to her afterward. Like, making it their life goal to kill her, because she can revive them. I never quite understood their motivation for this. I think it was like..."I'm a hollow I want to die, why'd you save me you tart" but, god dangit, I'd be appreciative if I was literally ressurected from death.

Originally Posted by Slayer Lord

Grimmjow stopped Loly and Menoly from bullying her by killing them. Then Orihime brought them back to life. Or at least Menolly died, not 100% about Loly.

Actually, I was thinking she'd use her Koten Zanshun to destroy the Hogyoku itself, not reverse time on him. Don't say scary stuff like that, man!

Either way, she should of rejected Aizen and the Hogyoku back into whatever the spirit equivilent of atoms (Reisu, I guess).

Originally Posted by Morph Bark

Was that the only time a spirit body was left though? She was incinerated, but maybe she wasn't... "completely dead" so to say. The wiki says the top of her body was blasted away, so if the bottom was still left, it could've worked. In most cases I remember it's just that spirits who've been killed disappear completely, though admittably in nearly all cases it's a shinigami killing a Hollow or arrancar.

Prolly one of those inconsistencies that've build up over time.

Oh! Yeah, that'd be a far better idea, if at all possible.

Orihime doesn't use that one often though, and its power depends upon her destructive intent.

That last bit, right there, is the part I actually forgot. Her powers are based on her will in that way. As a result, her shield should probably be nigh invulnerable, since her intent is to protect and shield her allies as much as possible. But if Orihime gets to do something, Ichigo doesn't get to do something. So we can't have that.

Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

which is why god characters are bad for a story.
not using one that exists in the universe is internally inconsistent.

orihime is a pacifist, so there's a good reason she couldn't/wouldn't kill aizen or some random antagonist. i could totally accept that.

but we're talking about saving people's lives. there's no reason for her not to be there saving the day if only by healing the wounded.

We don't really have any proof that she's better at healing than anyone in the 4th division. Even if she can...does anyone in Soul Society really know that? Why would they assume so? They certainly weren't there when these hollows were apparently ressurected. All they know is that she's Ichigo's friend, has some healing abilities and is very very silly/dumb. They have a whole division centered on healing...why would they assume they need her?

We have no reason to believe she could have restored Ichigo's powers. Maybe she tried and it didn't work? We don't know if she can heal Bankai's or not. We do know that she's never had any reason to try. Is Ikkaku even aware of her abilities? Why would he go ask a complete stranger to heal his Bankai, when he keeps it a secret from his closest friends?

How do we even know that she's as powerful as you all think she is? Because Aizen said so? Cause he's totally a reliable source of information and has never deceived anyone before?

You guys are just intentionally putting the worst spin possible on every single thing that happens so that you have a reason to complain.

Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

Originally Posted by Anteros

If Orihime DID use her powers to solve every problem in the series, you guys would just whine about that instead.

You're right, but that's also the point. It's never good when all the significant problems are solved by a single character, no matter who it is. Like LaZodiac said, "But if Orihime gets to do something, Ichigo doesn't get to do something. So we can't have that." And the sad thing is, you can substitute Orihime's name for any other protagonist character and it'd still be true.

It wouldn't be so bad if Kubo gave us a consistent and believable reason why she can't solve everything (or help out in fights at all, for that matter). Instead, he keeps coming up with reasons to shove her (and everyone else) off to the side so Ichigo can be the big damn hero. Hell, Ichigo might have been in a condition capable of at least standing up to Nnoitora if he hadn't been all, "Keep your helpful support magics out of my fight with Grimmjow, lady. This is a fight between men." Though this baffles me more for the fact that Ichigo supposedly came to Hueco Mundo to RESCUE Orihime, not brawl with his personal rivals.

Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

Originally Posted by Slayer Lord

You're right, but that's also the point. It's never good when all the significant problems are solved by a single character, no matter who it is. Like LaZodiac said, "But if Orihime gets to do something, Ichigo doesn't get to do something. So we can't have that." And the sad thing is, you can substitute Orihime's name for any other protagonist character and it'd still be true.

It wouldn't be so bad if Kubo gave us a consistent and believable reason why she can't solve everything (or help out in fights at all, for that matter). Instead, he keeps coming up with reasons to shove her (and everyone else) off to the side so Ichigo can be the big damn hero. Hell, Ichigo might have been in a condition capable of at least standing up to Nnoitora if he hadn't been all, "Keep your helpful support magics out of my fight with Grimmjow, lady. This is a fight between men." Though this baffles me more for the fact that Ichigo supposedly came to Hueco Mundo to RESCUE Orihime, not brawl with his personal rivals.

So? Orihime is silly and useless. She was before she got powers, and she still is with them. She'd still be useless even if she was stronger. That's just her character. She's not useless because of her power level...she's useless because of her personality.

Ichigo is pigheaded, arrogant, and prideful enough to do exactly what you're describing. Besides, involving Orihime in that fight would have made her a target...which is the last thing Ichigo wants. It's not an optimal decision, but it's perfectly in character.

Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

How do we even know that she's as powerful as you all think she is? Because Aizen said so? Cause he's totally a reliable source of information and has never deceived anyone before?

You guys are just intentionally putting the worst spin possible on every single thing that happens so that you have a reason to complain.

Because Aizen is the only source we have. No, he isn't a reliable source by any stretch of the imagination, but until someone within the series comes up with another theory of how they work then we're kind of stuck with Aizen. Even Ulquiorra-- in his own thoughts, mind you-- noted that her powers are more than simple healing or even manipulation of time and space.

I can't speak for the others, but the only reason I complain is because I know Bleach can be better. I never complained until Kubo started going out of his way to make sure Ichigo was the only one who could beat Aizen.

Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

Of course it could be better. So could Fairy Tail, One Piece, LOTR, or any single work of fiction ever made, ever. Bleach is still a well made manga. The problem is that everyone is so busy nit-picking every tiny thing they don't like or every little thing that differentiates from what they wanted to happen that they stopped enjoying it.

I'm sorry, but by far the 2 most common complaints are "this isn't how I would have written this!" or "These characters aren't acting how I would have...despite the fact that they're perfectly in character, and I've got an omniscient view of every single thing that happens while they don't."

Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

Originally Posted by Anteros

We don't really have any proof that she's better at healing than anyone in the 4th division. Even if she can...does anyone in Soul Society really know that? Why would they assume so? They certainly weren't there when these hollows were apparently ressurected. All they know is that she's Ichigo's friend, has some healing abilities and is very very silly/dumb. They have a whole division centered on healing...why would they assume they need her?

1)she unkilled someone who's top half was vaporized. 2) hachigen knows she does something very different from healing.
bach also mentions that she could have fixed yama's arm and they knew that. clearly putting her in a category separate from, or at least above normal healing.

We have no reason to believe she could have restored Ichigo's powers.Maybe she tried and it didn't work? We don't know if she can heal Bankai's or not. We do know that she's never had any reason to try. Is Ikkaku even aware of her abilities? Why would he go ask a complete stranger to heal his Bankai, when he keeps it a secret from his closest friends?

she explicitly stated she could have fixed her own if there were pieces left. it's not unreasonable to think she could do it for others, especially given she can revive the dead.then we should know that

How do we even know that she's as powerful as you all think she is? Because Aizen said so? Cause he's totally a reliable source of information and has never deceived anyone before?

not because he said anything, but because he went through the trouble of kidnapping her, using his 4th most powerful soldier to babysit her, and that she can apparently fix what is to date the most powerful object in the entire series.

Last edited by thubby; 2012-11-18 at 03:50 PM.

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Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

not because he said anything, but because he went through the trouble of kidnapping her, using his 4th most powerful soldier to babysit her, and that she can apparently fix what is to date the most powerful object in the entire series.

Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

Originally Posted by Anteros

We don't really have any proof that she's better at healing than anyone in the 4th division.

We have proof that at least the captain is better, she couldn't heal Ichigo's reiatsu before the Aizen fight but Unohana could (she also says some things that make it sound like Orihime's healing works quite different from kido healing, but it isn't really consistent with what Aizen said. Maybe he was being figurative?).

Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

The point is...of course the manga could be better. That doesn't mean it's bad. I'm not saying there are no problems, but when people complain about every. single. thing. that. ever. happens. it really ruins the discussion of the actual valid points.

It also ruins the thread for those of us who actually like the manga when everyone is constantly piling on for minor nit-picks.

Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

Originally Posted by Drolyt

We have proof that at least the captain is better, she couldn't heal Ichigo's reiatsu before the Aizen fight but Unohana could (she also says some things that make it sound like Orihime's healing works quite different from kido healing, but it isn't really consistent with what Aizen said. Maybe he was being figurative?).

i believe the problem wasnt that orihime couldn't, it's just her technique isnt as good at it. and thus far we havent seen her shields move while active.

Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

Originally Posted by Anteros

The point is...of course the manga could be better. That doesn't mean it's bad. I'm not saying there are no problems, but when people complain about every. single. thing. that. ever. happens. it really ruins the discussion of the actual valid points.

It also ruins the thread for those of us who actually like the manga when everyone is constantly piling on for minor nit-picks.

We're only picking on nitpicks because we're waiting for the new chapter to be released. So don't worry, we'll get into the reasons why Bleach IS bad when the chapter is released. Unless it is good.

Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

Originally Posted by Anteros

You mean, even if it is good. You misunderstand me. The vast majority of the reasons you claim Bleach is bad are the nitpicks.

The fact that this entire Thousand Year Blood War arc has been completely incompetently written is not a nitpick. Just look at Fairy Tail, which is getting just as much crap for IT'S current main villians being shown up like punks. I do not take the Sternritter serious, because in their "war winning strategy" to attack Soul Sociaty, they lost all but four of their best guys, and the Shinigami have lost nothing but grunts.