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Wednesday, January 30, 2013

What Will Pauline Promise Next?

As you have likely heard, Pauline Marois and the PQ have, for the umpteenth time, promised to make a new push for sovereignty.

Considering the PQ's very minority position in the National Assembly and its standing in the polls, somewhere in the low thirty percents, it's a presumptuous undertaking for a government that is supposed to represent all Quebecers. Perhaps the motivation is nothing more than an attempt to fire up the faithful, to believe otherwise is to accept that the PQ is badly in need of a reality check.

"Pauline Marois' surprise announcement Tuesday that her party is preparing a strategy to push sovereignty has raised eyebrows at the National Assembly......This newest strategy, Marois says, will be presented at the PQ's
convention in Drummondville on February 9th. About 2,000 PQ members will
vote on the idea of launching a vast advertising campaign to sell the
merits of sovereignty...Premier Marois will only say the "strategy" she'll unveil will focus on selling the advantages of sovereignty. "Link

"The advantages of sovereignty?" You've got to be kidding!

On Monday I wrote about the Employment Insurance program, which Marois and the PQ want to repatriate from federal jurisdiction, part of the party's overall strategy to wrest political control from Ottawa, one program at a time.
It came as a surprise to me in researching the blog piece that Quebec contributes about $800 million less to the program than it gets out. The fact that Quebecers make up 40% of EI claimants is another shocking revelation.
The idea of taking over this program from Ottawa is akin to asking to take over your neighbours alimony payments...not too bright.

And yet the PQ persists, the question being , WHY?

In making the electoral promise to repatriate the EI program to Quebec jurisdiction I can think of only three scenarios;

Pauline and the PQ made the promise knowing full well that it was just an 'election promise,' something that played well in a sound bite, but something that a reasonable government would never really consider.

Pauline and the PQ weighed the consequences of adding at least $800 million to the Quebec deficit and deemed the cost worth the price of winning some power back from Ottawa.

The PQ shot their mouth off, without ever considering the consequences.

I'll let readers weigh in on which of the above three options is the most plausible, but before you reject the third option as being too unlikely, I'd remind you that even Jean Charest sometimes went off book in an election campaign, saying something that his political staffers never approved or vetted.
It happened in the 2008 campaign where Charest promised to abolish the provincial sales tax of 7.5% on Quebec culture-related products.
What Charest was unaware of, or ignored, was the fact that this provision would contravene the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA.)
Suffice to say that when his government was elected, the idea was never mentioned again.

So I'm wondering what Pauline can promise Quebecers, reality or fantasy that can make the slightest difference to influence them after all these years of debate, that sovereignty could actually be a viable option.

Let us start with the only thing that has been floated so far, the right of sixteen year-olds to vote in a referendum.
Again I'll let readers chime in as to the appropriateness of children voting, considering that half of them couldn't, in all likelihood, name the ten provinces.
Perhaps Pauline should take on one of the proposals that I read on vigile.net, that only Quebec born natives be allowed to vote in a referendum.
Perhaps she could also consider awarding two votes per francophone voter to counteract historical injustices.

So what Pauline promises, aside from repatriating the money-pit Employment Insurance program, can she make?
First off, the economics;
No doubt, Pauline will trot out the foundation lie of the sovereignty movement, which is that Quebec sends more taxes to Ottawa than it receives back.
This oft-repeated lie is the hallmark of a PQ campaign touting financial viability, but to those who actually pay taxes, the argument is just plain unbelievable.
Those who want to believe that it so, are the militants that will, quite honestly, believe anything. But for the majority, the idea that Quebec is a net contributor to Canada just doesn't fly, because it is patently untrue.
The big bad equalization payment of close to eight billion dollars is a powerful symbol of Quebec's indebtedness to Canada that the PQ has difficulty explaining away.

As for more generous social programs in an independent Quebec, the idea is laughable.
Just yesterday the minister in charge of higher education rejected the notion of a free education system from kindergarten to university, telling students the truth, that the province cannot possibly afford it.

In terms of promises in relation to more generous social programs, the PQ is actually out of options, there is no money to be had and everybody knows it, even the die-hards.

So what is left?
Clean energy?
A rejection of the Oil Sands?
A new gun registry?
A revised more lenient criminal justice system?

Hardly compelling arguments for the creation of a new and uncertain independent state.
And so I'm going to stop discussing the PQ's nonsensical economic arguments, it is like promoting the health benefits of cancer.

So what is left? What can Pauline promise?
Well readers, unfortunately, quite a lot.
Get ready for an unremitting campaign of disinformation and outright hate.
The PQ will play the only card it has left and it will play it to the hilt.

Language and culture.

Those old enough to remember, will recall Lucien Bouchard's pooh-poohing reports of Quebec's economic ruin during the last referendum in favour of language and culture. It almost worked.

No doubt we are in for an onslaught of dire warnings by the PQ that independence is the last chance for Quebec to save its language and culture.

Franco-supremacists will do the dirty work, reminding Quebecers that they are on the road to irreversible Anglicization and that within a few years they will be subjected to Sharia law, Kosher and Halal food, policeman in turbans, driving instructors in veils, and minarets, shrines and temples in every neighbourhood.
Worst of all, Quebecers will be warned that they will be overrun with unilingual English bus drivers and ticket sellers in the metro as well as 'speak white' clerks in Eatons Quebec department stores. They'll be reminded that they will face English government and para-public employees who will completely bilingualize the public service, a harbinger of French cultural death.

Quebecers living in the sticks will be told that the Anglo/Ethnic infection that has overtaken Montreal is spreading to the regions and that without independence, the die is cast with French in North America on an inexorable road to destruction.
In essence, francophones will be given the choice between prosperity or cultural and linguistic survival, a battle that the PQ discerns to be their only slim chance of winning.

Using a take on the famous American credo, the cry of "Live French or die" will become the rallying point to which the PQ pins their hopes of success.

An ugly campaign of Us versus Them, is what the PQ is preparing, helped along by bolder proxies like French language linguicist, Mario Beaulieu who is starting to become a force, spearheading campaigns to trump a French language agenda over
economic or social benefits, as we have seen in the recent Lachine
Hospital debate. Link

More of the same is coming, it is all that is left for the flickering notion of sovereignty.

It's going to be ugly, brutal and divisive, exactly what the PQ wants...

102 comments:

I think the Catholic Church adopted a similar strategy when they noticed which way the wind was blowing in Quebec back in the 50's and 60's and look what became of them. A wholesale rejection of everything the Church stood for ensued and still does to this day. I can only talk about my group of Québécois friends (mid to late 30's). None of them would ever buy into the politics of division that the PQ are/will be selling. All this is theoretical in any case. I have severe doubts that the PQ minority government will last past this year and I'm positive their dreams of ever forming a majority Governement are dashed. There is a new political reality in Quebec.

At the end of WW2, when the Nazis knew they were losing they conscripted 16 year olds to the battlefields. Now our very own Nazi ratté PQunt is scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to give the vote to the 16 year olds. Their hope is that the separatist unionist teachers will all tell their little unilingual sheep how to vote. Like the Nazis, this is the sign of the end. I saw a poll published today that said the Saguenay would vote NO in a clear majority.Imagine they control the media and they control the schools but they can‘t even break 50% on an unclear, sugar coated referendum question.And you want to make a country out of THIS?

@Student of Hate.. So JJ tells you that you're acting like the cornered rats that you are, that like the nazis you're going to the underage students, that your hate is consuming you and all you get out of this is "separatists don't control the media?Wow how lucky are we to have such incompetent ,idiot opponents. You should hit the streets again to protest for "free" tuition. Oh, wait a minute, you'd have to protest against your mommy, Pauline Antoinette.Looks like you'll have to continue acting like the rapist who won't take no for an answer or force yourselves on the children.JJ puts it right on:And you want to make a country out of THIS?

five journalists have gone from media to pq candidate over fifty years. offseted by the number of journalists that went to liberal party or other non separatist parties. hum. still no proof they control the media.

in fact, if they did, duceppe would be leading a majority pq government today.

"So JJ tells you that you're acting like the cornered rats that you are, that like the nazis you're going to the underage students, that your hate is consuming you and all you get out of this is "separatists don't control the media?"

some arguments are auto-destructive nomeansno. they don't need me. the rest of your rant is another good example of that.

Rapists hear NO over and over again and proceed with their sick and twisted actions much like the PQ.In 1980, we said NO!In 1995, we said NO!In 1998, we said NO! And cut off Bouchard at the knees despite the fact that he won a majority of seats.In 2003, 2007, and 2008 we said NO! By voting in the most uninspiring of leaders just because he believed in Canada.In 2012, the rapists snuck in the door despite only garnering 31.9% of the vote. Yes, we said NO! Yet again.And now Marois galavanting around Scotland like she actually counts as something and talk of unleashing separatist propaganda on the masses. It seems like no matter how many times they hear NO!, the PQ proceeds anyway for their own sick pleasure.If that‘s not a classic rapist mentality I don‘t know what is.

No: Good Youtube bit. I kept playing the thing over at the 11 second mark where Parasite growls like a bulldog...rrrrrrrrrrr....

At least a bulldog is pedigree (and they're actually very sweet and friendly). Parasite's grandfather, if I'm correct, was a heart surgeon, his father the founder of an insurance and investing company, so how did such pedigree produce a mongrel? ...rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...

And there you are, trying to to turn the tables so you will be the victims.Even a die hard Francois Legault can finally understand that NO MEANS NO! Guess he doesn‘t have the rapist instinct that afflicts most members of the PQ.

There is a point when perseverance becomes self-destruction. All too often, people confuse visionary perseverance with stubborn stupidity. Think of a spider that keeps trying to build a spider web outside your door; it keeps getting destroyed every time the door opens yet the spider perseveres and still keeps rebuilding his spider web, hoping that one day it will last. Perseverance or stupidity?

In my experience, they eventually learn that trying to build a spider web there is never going to work. I'm pretty sure that they then instinctively learn to build their webs someplace where nobody cares.

I cannot wait for quebec to go its own way.I can't wait for quebec to have to pay back ts fair share of the federal debts: $135BThat, added to their debt $255B puts quebec in Greek territory.Already Empress Pauline has had to scale back many urgent infrastructure projects due to lack of funds. Add to that the utter failure of public policies, assurance medicaments, the lack of business friendly approach, high taxes, bill 101, narrow minded locals and plain lazy, disconnected unions.

Yes this will be the happiest day of my life when quebec is finally free, independant from Canadian "rule" and on its own. That country won't last 5 minutes before massive foreign assistance will be required.... or becomes Haiti-North.

Team Caribou is very conscious of the devestatingly negative economic ramifications of separation but never outwardly suggest it (Marketing 101, sugar-coat everything). They share the philosophy that you must break Quebec in order to rebuild it. After all, if the price to eacape the boot of the evil anglo-saxon empire is a generation or two of abject poverty and Hati-esque financial ruin, what's the big deal? A mere flash in the pan, geologically speaking. That's why 2/3 of Quebec rejected their fairy-tale and didn't vote PQ last September and that's why the PQ can only ever aspire of becoming a minority Governement from now on, essentially Grade-A shit disturbers.

I wish I could say we had a provincial federalist party that is now getting ready for this new push by the PQ to mislead the public and again cause more division between the francophones and the rest of us. Can we count of the liberals to defend us against these bigots? I think not. We should be able to but I think they will, again, remain on the sidelines. I wish the Equality Party was up and running because we need outspoken politicians to debunk the garbage that is about to be put forth by the PQs. Will the journalists in this province finally start to give facts and not just quote the seppies? Hopefully, now that the Gazette is under new ownership, some actual facts and numbers pertaining to independence will be published, at least, in that paper. We need some honest journalists in this place, francophone ones as well as anglophones and all the publicity we can get. This whole battle is very fatiguing and I really wish we would partition the province and get rid of those that vote to go. Fifty years from now we'll still be having this debate and frankly, most of us are sick of it. Let those areas go that want to go and the rest of us can have peace and stability again.

Cutie: The only owner who tried to make a silk purse out of that rag a.k.a. the Gazette, was Conrad Black, and even HE didn't succeed, but he probably brought it as close to respectability as anyone has in our lifetimes.

Hopefully the PQ will antagonize Harper to finally cut off equalization to Quebec, or cut it back to the minimum allowed by the Constitution. As stated previously, $1 a head should do fine.

FROM EDUne Gars, What kind of a piece of shit are you? You're gloating over our possible demise is disgusting. You know Quebec is full of decent hardworking people that are only trying to live and raise their children but you revel in the fact that one day things will be worse fior them than they are now. The happiest day of your life will be when they are suffering. My God man, go back to Calgary where God has provided the oil that makes you think you're better than everyone. If Alberta had no oil they'd be a dustbowl and Quebecers would sympathize and try to help them. I was in Alberta when Lake Louise was the only assset they had and the people were worried about the wheat. C.D. Howe set up the 'Wheat Board' to help prairie farmers and no one gloated over the situation.Jesus said, "There are only two great commandments, the first is love Thy Lord and the second is like unto it. LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THY SELF. What a great Christian you are. Ed

Thanks ED for the insults. UN GARS was right in his comment, admit it.We all know - unless you are in a denial phase - that Quebec will undergo an enormous financial crisis when it will separate. Yes, Quebec will separate one day.The guy never was insulting, merely over confident. What A great christian you are, ED.

We hope that you guys go sooner than later and take the pieces of land that you vote to go with. The rest of us will be just fine and you can live in your new bankrupt, francophone exclusive areas of quebec and talk each other to death about how great your lives are without any anglophones. Please let it happen quickly - I want you out faster than I can type this sentence!

"You're gloating over our possible demise is disgusting. You know Quebec is full of decent hardworking people that are only trying to live and raise their children but you revel in the fact that one day things will be worse for them than they are now."

Well said ED.

I think some people have spent too much time reading comments on this blog, and have forgotten that these language/separation/racist/xenophobe crazies represent the MINORITY. Most people here are honest, hard working, open to other cultures and languages, and aren't looking for handouts.

Yes, we have our share of them, and yes, they are loud, especially lately. By playing their game and being extreme on the other end of the spectrum, you're giving them exactly what they want.

For the rest of you Canadians who keep wishing for our demise: We aren't going anywhere, better get used to it now. The crazies that we constantly talk about on this blog DO NOT represent us, and I predict that just like the catholic church, the whole separatist movement will soon be nothing but an unpleasant memory from the past.

I think some people have spent too much time reading comments on this blog, and have forgotten that these language/separation/racist/xenophobe crazies represent the MINORITY.

Hear hear! Although I would hasten to add there are crazies everywhere… and the anonymity of the internet encourages the expression of extremist opinions that doesn’t represent the opinion of most people who have better things to do besides commenting on blogs.

For the rest of you Canadians who keep wishing for our demise: We aren't going anywhere, better get used to it now.

Huzzah! Same goes towards the franco-supremacists who think they will one day artificially create a French-only utopia in Quebec.

FROM EDCUTIE, We only need to be patient. Put on a happy face. These days are gloomy and depressing. We can boost our spirits with the thought that the PQ will be out in the spring and a new party can begin building. If they use 16 year old voters we have to reach the French teachers. I'm sure they realize that if they want college and universities to be there for the students, the PQ has to go. Ed

C'mon everybody! This letting 16-year=olds vote is as old as the hills. Same for only letting «pur lain-ers» vote. Discussed in 1980, never came to fruition. Discussed in 1995, never came to fruition. Discussed in 2013, never will come to fruition.

In the meantime, I'll sit safely on my haunches where I am while it all unfolds and as usual, the minority community will do its usual nothing.

You seppies are a piece of work. You should be cheering what Une Gars says because he is for giving you what you want - your own country. I wish the hell you knew what you're doing but it's obvious you don't. I still think the only way out of this mess is to let the partition of the province take place and then SR and YL will have an area to which to move because they don't want to stay in Canada. A democratic way out of this mess for all of us.

It's OK RS - I've learned to ignore their stupid comments. Can't be bothered with their trivial nonsense. The only thing I find frustrating about all this is I can't seem to get anyone interested in finding a democratic way out of this mess - it seems to be a battle for a whole loaf rather than each side willing to take half of one, rather than starve to death. This province would be left with maybe a population of like minded seppies, maybe 2M people, and they really expect approximately 5-6M to leave behind all their life savings, property and businesses, and become refugees without a single shot being fired. I find this simply astounding - that is why I keep pushing for partition in a democratic manner, to decide who belongs to either the "Revised quebec" or a new province within Canada. 2M people have absolutely no claim on a land mass the size of quebec with vacant homes, businesses, a destroyed infrastructure, no economy, no money, etc. If they can't live with us, then live without us, but let's settle it in a democratic civilized manner before there is real trouble.

When is the Liberal leadership convention? Hopefully they will find another great leader like Charest so Marois' reign of terror can be brought to a halt. Lord Dorchester, I'm certain that Quebec's abandonment of church and prayer is directly linked with its downfall as a province. We should all pray for a better future for Quebec.

“Franco-supremacists will do the dirty work,….. and that within a few years they will be subjected to Sharia law….

Sharia law? Sorry Editor, but they are THE SHARIA LAW in its vilest and ugliest form since they have a lot in common with those Jihadist extremists… btw, speaking of which, if ever the sharia law happens to be imposed on this land, keep in mind that it will be at their own fault as they are very oriented toward selecting immigration from Muslim countries (algeria, lebanon,morroco, egypt and etc)just for the simple fact they all speak French, and the way things are going right now, Quebec is increasingly showing more characteristics found in the Muslim world, such as “no freedom of speech, or “no free-thinking”. “economic and societal regression” and so on….So, having said that, the seppies are making the islamization of quebec happening and they only have themselves to blame…..300,000 Anglophones were replaced by 300,000 Arabs (no racism intended, but hey, let’s face it!)

Parti Quebecois= radical islamSheikh Pauline is a threat to freedom and democracy

Sorry editor, but I needed to get it off my chest since I despise radical Islam and the separatist movement. To me, they’re two sides of the same coin…

after half a day of contributions, we now have that quebec separatists are like nazi (john james) children rapists (nomeansno) that are commited to turning the province into an islamic (the dread) haiti (un gars).

Muslims.....This could be a very natural evolution for Quebec demographics...Since Quebec wants french speaking immigrants they could easily attract Islamists from the Maghreb and Sahel. You know... the same clowns that are chopping off hands in northern Mali and kidnap and kill oil workers in Algeria? They would be perfect for Quebec!!!Then they would slowly unveil their sweet Sharia law plans for quebecistan!!!Pauline would have the wear a veil and would be promptly sent to the kitchen, where she belongs!!!Some Emir from Brussels or Paris could be the new premier!!!At least quebekistan would talk french!!!

If ever there is a takeover attempt by muslims in All Canada(including QUEBEC) in the future, then I guess we won't have a choice but to put our old "federalist and separatist" quarrels aside just so we reunite and defend the most important and fundamental key principles we share in this country, known as "Democracy"...

on a side note, Maybe this is what it take for you guys to realize there are far worst things than " the big bad heengleesh"in this world, as you will learn the very cold and harsh definitions of the words "oppression" and "persecution" once being under the cruel and ruthless iron fist of the sharia law.

You will then miss the "maudit anglais" days once you get there(God forbid)and you will be in no position whatsoever to revert to society back to the good old days of freedom since it will boil down to a point of no return...

This is too funny!!!The Gaspe peninsula is oozing with clean oil:http://www.ledevoir.com/environnement/actualites-sur-l-environnement/369721/decouverte-d-un-vaste-reservoir-de-petrole-en-gaspesie

Wonder if S.R. will condone this awful pollution in his backyard. Somebody think of the children!!!!We will see how hypocritical the separatists really are.On the other hand....Gaspe could be the new Alberta? The environmentalists will stop this nonsense fast enough.

What’s the (real) reason behind ROC’s “blockage” toward Kay-Beck ?Because of Bill 101 ? Making Kay-Beck a French Nation ?- Nova Scotia Education Act or Tupper Act (1864), prohibiting French schools.- Common Schools Act in N.-B. (1871), forcing the Acadians to go to English schools.- The Official Language Act of Manitoba in 1890 (Manitoba was bilingual until then).(see on YOUTUBE= Quebec history 22- Depression and the Metis (8min 49)- Regulation 17 in Ontario prohibiting French education (www.thecanadianencyclopedia.co....- Alberta School Act (1905) & Saskatchewan School Act (1909)imposing the English language to French speaking pupils.- In 1927, the Ku Klux Klan moves north into Canada, specially Saskatchewan, where it opposed Catholics and French Canadians.- In 1929 and 1931, more laws prohibited French to be spoken in schools in Saskatchewan, and the government refused to hire teachers from Quebec (The Fransaskois were only allowed to have their French schools in the 1990’s).- Tory MP D’Alton MCCARTHY attacks on Catholic schools and French-language schooling in the North-West Territories....And the list could go on and on!

What’s the (real) reason behind ROC’s “blocage” toward Kay-Beck ?Because of Bill 101 ? Making Kay-Beck a French Nation ?On November 27, 2006, the Canadian House of Commons passes A MOTION RECOGNIZING that the « QUÉBÉCOIS » form a NATION within an united Canada.

It's important to know history and recognize the injustices of the past, if only for blunting any sort of triumphalism that people in this country are prone to. It's quite another to hold grudges forever and continue to paralyze the country that has pretty much disengaged itself from QC and allowed it to run pretty much as a sovereign entity.

Time to make up your mind. Scotland is about to pose a very clear question, and if it is a No, it's a No. Salmond says he will never allow a quagmire of a neverendum Quebec-style. He's also not too keen on creating social division before the referendum, again, Quebec-style.

Can you rise to this level of maturity? Can you roll up your sleeves and get things done or accept that they can't be done? Or is your historical malaise all you've got?

On one hand, you can't get over things, on the other, come referendum time, you'll vote No on some ambiguous bs question. How am I, an immigrant, supposed to take you and this place seriously?

----

Editor, how about a piece on the SNP's total snubbing of Quebec's first lady? I think there is enough material online to put out a piece on this.

"It would seem unavoidable, given the pivotal role of the Scots diaspora in the building of modern Canada and Scotland’s ancient alliance with the French, that Scotland and Quebec should make natural bedfellows, and such is indeed the case. It is a reassuring thought that oceanic and linguistic divisions count for so little when two peoples are determined to come together in the spirit of international cooperation and mutual benefit. Let us celebrate this, and proclaim to the world the shared vision of the Scots and Quebecois of friendship through diversity, of pan-human respect and affection, and of cultural differences as a way of bringing people together rather than driving them apart. After all, we’re a’ Jacques Tamson’s bairns.

I plug the text cited above and the only place where it shows up is on republiquelibre.org, by no means a government organization, and not even a Scottish "organization".

http://alba.republiquelibre.org/common.html

Search on Google for Scotland Now yields a link to what looks like an HTML form created as an assignment in an Intro to Web Programming class.

www.scotland-now.com/

...that gets redirected here:

http://www.friendsofscotland.gov.uk/scotlandnow/issue-16/index.html

Is this the best you can do?

----

On the other side of the argument, even pro-sovereignty sources such as Le Devoir can't help but point out the snub of Marois by the Scots.

It seems that the issue of separation is not enough to unite. And it shows that as there are mature separatists, there are also childish ones who give the word "independence" as very unfavorable connotation.

The reaction of the SNP to Marois and the opinion the French may have about Quebeckers can't be explained with a generic "hate". The visceral reaction some in Canada may have towards Quebec is not necessarily shared by others, because others don't share the same experiences as Canada. For example, haven't it occurred to you that the French pretty much condescend on ("hate") everyone? Also, I don't think the Scots hate the Quebecois, I think they object to some measures taken by Quebec, but I don't know if it translates into hate.

I think the reasons for the snub lie with Scotland's not wanting to jeopardize its relationship with Canada, and if Quebec and Canada ever separate, good relationships with the RoC will probably prevent other countries from developing too close friendships with Quebec, with some exceptions of course.

Also, it is entirely possible that the SNP may see the PQ as a silly party, not too serious about anything other than keeping the culture wars going. The history of the PQ bears this conclusion out. The Scots, on the other hand, seem much more serious, with the clear question, no social divisions in the works, and no neverendum. That's why Salmond told Marois to stick her 1980 and 1995 referendum "documents" up her a**. Scotland is going to do it a different way, it seems.

MONTREAL — It took some nerve for Pauline Marois to describe her meeting this week with Scotland’s separatist first minister as a historic occasion.

In light of the tepid reception she got from Alex Salmond, it was historic only in the sense that it was a memorable flop for the Quebec premier. Instead of embracing Marois as a cohort in the struggle for national independence, Salmond made a blatant point of not appearing publicly in her company. The Parti Québécois government has suffered a series of embarrassments since its election last September, but this one, coming as it did on the international stage, was perhaps the most acute for an administration and a premier of such high pretension.

An editorial cartoon in what is normally PQ-friendly Le Devoir encapsulated the event with exquisite malice, depicting a deflated Marois shaking hands with a kilted fellow wearing a paper bag over his head.

Marois sought to save face by making much of the fact that the meeting with Salmond at the Scottish parliament in Edinburgh lasted a whole 45 minutes, twice as long as originally scheduled. But then the fact that it had been scheduled for less than half an hour in the first place might have served as a hint that she was less than a welcome visitor.

That suggestion was driven home by Salmond, otherwise reputed to be a consummate media hound, who barred TV cameras from the room where they met and pointedly declined to join Marois for a post-meeting news conference. Rubbing it in further, his press secretary downplayed the event by saying that it was simply a courtesy call, merely one of several that Salmond had scheduled for the day.

Prior to the meeting, Marois had made much of offering Salmonddocuments of an unspecified nature regarding the PQ’s campaigns to achieve sovereignty. But it turned out he had no interest in what she was offering, and the documents stayed in her briefcase. She described the meeting as very productive, but the joint communiqué issued after the meeting was hardly the stuff of headlines. It acknowledged that Quebec and Scotland have common goals in international trade, renewable energy, cultural exchanges and such. As for independence, it blandly said it is a matter for their respective populations to decide.

Salmond’s standoffishness was understandable in that he had more to lose than to gain by cozying up to Marois. It is something Marois should have realized and thought through, before exposing herself to ridicule. Salmond’s Scottish National Party holds a majority in Scotland’s regional parliament and has an independence referendum scheduled for the fall of next year, the first such for Scotland.

Under the circumstances, it was hardly good optics for Salmond to cast himself on a common footing with the leader of a separatist party, without a governing majority, that had twice tried and failed to pull off a secession referendum. Moreover, as one Scottish opposition MP noted, Canada is held in wide favour among Scots, be they independence supporters or otherwise, with hundreds of thousands among them havingfamily ties to this country.

More important, Salmond has undoubtedly calculated that it is in his greater interest to curry favour with Canada’s federal government, to which he will have to appeal for recognition for an independent Scotland if it ever comes to that.

It is a consideration Marois might also keep in mind. Should a PQ government ever be in the same position, particularly if its secession is contested by the Canadian government, it will not be helpful to have courted independence movements in countries whose support might be crucial for its own national aspirations down the road.

People of Scottish descent had a great deal to do with the building of Montreal and Quebec as a whole, but I wonder how many thousands have been driven out by the language laws and the specter of separation. There is a Scottish thistle appearing on the municipal flag of Montreal but it doesn't count for very much any more.

All we have to do is look around and see the number of houses for sale to see exactly what is happening here. I see it out my window every time I open my drapes. A lot worse since the PQ came to power but quebec is going nowhere fast until rights and freedoms are restored and we get rid of groups like the PQ, IF, SSJB and Vigile.net readers and followers. It's sad really and right now people are just vacating their homes and leaving them to the bank. Reminds me of 1995 again when people left in droves. Brand new, beautiful homes, left to the bank.

Quebec second last for average weekly earnings in Canada:http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/health23-eng.htmThe fact that quebeckers' perception that things are better in quebec with unions, etc factually puts quebec in a dire situation. Their own foggy mirror...-------

Quebec is perceived to have Canada’s least friendly people....Quebec is perceived to be the worst place to open a business....Quebec is perceived to be the worst managed province:http://abacusdata.ca/2012/06/29/canadas-best-and-worst-provinces/--------------------------

To be honest, Ontario is as in deep as Quebec:http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/politics/archives/2013/01/20130131-075444.html

Funnu as McGuilty stated that the HST would make the province "prosper" again...

Gaspesie, just like the rest of quebec, by far prefer poverty (read subsidies from Ottawa) than prosperity. Even Bernard Landry now is rational:" Des militants de Gaspé appellent les Québécois à manifester contre Petrolia"http://www.lapresse.ca/le-soleil/actualites/environnement/201301/29/01-4616380-eau-potable-gaspe-appelle-les-quebecois-a-manifester-dimanche.php?utm_categorieinterne=trafficdrivers&utm_contenuinterne=cyberpresse_B13b_les-regions_578_section_POS3

EDITOR: JUST SAW YOUR 31 JANUARY POST. THANK YOU FOR NOT CREDITING ME FOR THE LEAVEQUEBEC.COM SITE.VERY TELLING OF YOU. BTW YOU THREW THE TOWEL ON ANGLOS' FUTURE IN QUEBEC IN THAT POST... IF YOU NEED RELOCATION TIPS TO CALGARY LET ME KNOW OR STOP WHINING ABOUT WHERE YOU LIVE.

First of all, stop shouting...That post slipped out inadvertently and has been withdrawn until midnight.If you want credit for a link, you need to send me an email. As it is, I follow the website mentioned quite closely.