People need to drop integrity from this discussion. Rose never compromised the integrity of the game. He broke the MLB's rules(never the HoF's) and the Hall got self-righteous. The HoF is a sham without the all time hits leader. The dumbasses that are trying to keep him out to protect the Hall are doing quite the opposite.

canaan wrote:Look up Bowie Kuhn in the baseball hall of fame and get back to me about integrity being the basis for their entrance to the hall. Its hypocritical grandstanding by old men who have a revisionist history of the good ole days of professional baseball

I just like the fact that Bowie Kuhn is in but Marvin Miller is not. I completely understand why the hall has kept Miller out (went againist the baseball establishment to try and scrap the reserve clause) but it's still not right.

Mike Piazza seems to exemplify exactly what is wrong with HoF voting. He's a no doubt HoFer. Yet there are some whispers about steroid use. No smoking gun, no admission, no first hand account, no investigation. But some decide there's a chance he did, so he's out.

It's pretty silly that these baseball writers are able to do this to the players. They should stop debating chastising those known users and deifying the "clean" guys. They should be condemning owners, gm's and the commisioner for allowing steroids for all those years.

Idoit40fans wrote:People need to drop integrity from this discussion. Rose never compromised the integrity of the game. He broke the MLB's rules(never the HoF's) and the Hall got self-righteous. The HoF is a sham without the all time hits leader. The dumbasses that are trying to keep him out to protect the Hall are doing quite the opposite.

Posted in every locker room: If you bet on baseball you will be banned for one year, if you bet on your own team you will be banned for life. Which part was unclear to Rose?

Do you know if Rose held a pitcher out or let one stay in to cover his bets, didn't use a pinch hitter when he should have?

How do we define integrity? Can one cheat and still have integrity? Be an awful person? Or is it just an eye test and the HoF voters have decided that betting is the key to not having integrity in terms of entrance to the HoF?

Idoit40fans wrote:People need to drop integrity from this discussion. Rose never compromised the integrity of the game. He broke the MLB's rules(never the HoF's) and the Hall got self-righteous. The HoF is a sham without the all time hits leader. The dumbasses that are trying to keep him out to protect the Hall are doing quite the opposite.

Posted in every locker room: If you bet on baseball you will be banned for one year, if you bet on your own team you will be banned for life. Which part was unclear to Rose?

Do you know if Rose held a pitcher out or let one stay in to cover his bets, didn't use a pinch hitter when he should have?

If you're a manager, your goal is to win the game. If you're betting on your team, your goal is to win the game. Integrity intact. Rules posted in the locker room have nothing to do with my post.

You bet more on one game than another and you may try to win it more. If Rose was betting on game after game, which he supposedly was, then he's probably not going to manage differently. If he was betting on games here and there then I think he could definitely manage differently and abuse pitchers. Not really relevant to the HoF discussion in my mind though.

MWB wrote:Mike Piazza seems to exemplify exactly what is wrong with HoF voting. He's a no doubt HoFer. Yet there are some whispers about steroid use. No smoking gun, no admission, no first hand account, no investigation. But some decide there's a chance he did, so he's out.

MWB wrote:Mike Piazza seems to exemplify exactly what is wrong with HoF voting. He's a no doubt HoFer. Yet there are some whispers about steroid use. No smoking gun, no admission, no first hand account, no investigation. But some decide there's a chance he did, so he's out.

MWB wrote:Mike Piazza seems to exemplify exactly what is wrong with HoF voting. He's a no doubt HoFer. Yet there are some whispers about steroid use. No smoking gun, no admission, no first hand account, no investigation. But some decide there's a chance he did, so he's out.

That was his first time on the ballot....he'll get in.

Think he eventually will. It'll just be a lot longer than it should be.

Im not really sure how anyone else is in this conversation with maddux and clemens. Distant behind them would be johnson and glavine. Then youre looking at pedro smoltz. Schilling somewhere after that. Not sure who else to put in there. Oh yeah...james mcdonald.