From rlharris at oplink.net Mon Aug 4 01:07:50 2008
From: rlharris at oplink.net (Russell L. Harris)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 03:07:50 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] newbie confusion: executing a perl script
Message-ID: <20080804080750.GA3578@tmiaf>
At the URL:
http://69.51.152.43/morse/#GUS-3
I discovered the nifty "KY8D Morse Code Perl Script", which has the
capability of converting any text -- even an entire book -- into Morse
code in a .WAV file, for subsequent conversion into mp3 or ogg vorbis
for use with a personal mp3 player.
(This is one way to circumvent the problem of a book for which the
only available audio edition has been read by someone with a voice you
find intolerable. If you can find a machine-readable copy of the
book, you can create your own Morse edition.)
The first line of the script is:
#!/usr/pkg/bin/perl
I am running Debian on an i386, so I used chmod to make the script
executable and I changed the first line of the script to read:
#!/usr/bin/perl
which works for all the Perl scripts I have been using over the past
year. But when I attempted to execute the script bash returned an
error message:
$ ./gus_morse.pl --path ~/scratch/message.txt
bash: ./gus_morse.pl: /usr/bin/perl^M: bad interpreter: No such
file or directory
I then consulted the README file supplied by the author of the script,
and saw there the example invocation:
$ perl gus_morse.pl --path message.txt
which worked.
Would someone kindly explain to me why the "perl ..." invocation
worked, whereas the "./..." invocation did not?
RLH
From gwadej at anomaly.org Mon Aug 4 05:16:49 2008
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 07:16:49 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] newbie confusion: executing a perl script
In-Reply-To: <20080804080750.GA3578@tmiaf>
References: <20080804080750.GA3578@tmiaf>
Message-ID: <20080804071649.061d261f@sovvan>
Hello,
On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 03:07:50 -0500
"Russell L. Harris" wrote:
> At the URL:
>
> http://69.51.152.43/morse/#GUS-3
>
> I discovered the nifty "KY8D Morse Code Perl Script", which has the
> capability of converting any text -- even an entire book -- into Morse
> code in a .WAV file, for subsequent conversion into mp3 or ogg vorbis
> for use with a personal mp3 player.
>
> (This is one way to circumvent the problem of a book for which the
> only available audio edition has been read by someone with a voice you
> find intolerable. If you can find a machine-readable copy of the
> book, you can create your own Morse edition.)
>
> The first line of the script is:
>
> #!/usr/pkg/bin/perl
>
> I am running Debian on an i386, so I used chmod to make the script
> executable and I changed the first line of the script to read:
>
> #!/usr/bin/perl
>
> which works for all the Perl scripts I have been using over the past
> year. But when I attempted to execute the script bash returned an
> error message:
>
> $ ./gus_morse.pl --path ~/scratch/message.txt
>
> bash: ./gus_morse.pl: /usr/bin/perl^M: bad interpreter: No such
> file or directory
The error message actually tells you exactly what you need to know. The
perl program it is trying to run is wrong, because it has a carriage
return in the name.
This is usually caused by trying to run a DOS/Windows formatted file on
some UNIX flavor.
Run dos2unix on the script. This will remove the unwanted characters.
If you don't have dos2unix (unlikely, but possible), you can use the
following perl one-liner:
perl -i.bak -pe'tr/\r//d' script.pl
where 'script.pl' is the script you want to fix.
> I then consulted the README file supplied by the author of the script,
> and saw there the example invocation:
>
> $ perl gus_morse.pl --path message.txt
>
> which worked.
>
> Would someone kindly explain to me why the "perl ..." invocation
> worked, whereas the "./..." invocation did not?
Hope that helps,
G. Wade
--
If it doesn't have to be right, I can make it arbitrarily fast.
-- Rick Hoselton
From todd.e.rinaldo at jpmorgan.com Mon Aug 4 08:28:44 2008
From: todd.e.rinaldo at jpmorgan.com (todd.e.rinaldo at jpmorgan.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 10:28:44 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] August meeting topics
Message-ID:
Wade,
I'm for continuing our Perl6 Testing contributions.
Todd
-----Original Message-----
From: houston-bounces+todd.e.rinaldo=jpmorgan.com at pm.org
[mailto:houston-bounces+todd.e.rinaldo=jpmorgan.com at pm.org] On Behalf Of
G. Wade Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 10:42 PM
To: houston at pm.org
Subject: [pm-h] August meeting topics
The date for the August meeting is approaching and we need to settle on
a topic. Some ideas that we could explore
1. Discuss progress on the rakudo/Perl 6 testing project that we
started last meeting.
2. Introduction to Parsing.
3. New modules or projects people are working on.
Anyone have opinions, suggestions, requests?
Do we want to consider a social meeting? We haven't had one of those in
a while.
G. Wade
--
C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but
when you do, it blows away your whole leg. -- Bjarne Stroustrup
_______________________________________________
Houston mailing list
Houston at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
Website: http://houston.pm.org/
Generally, this communication is for informational purposes only
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that might affect any computer system into which it is received and
opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it
is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by JPMorgan Chase &
Co., its subsidiaries and affiliates, as applicable, for any loss
or damage arising in any way from its use. If you received this
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Please refer to http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures for
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From rlharris at oplink.net Mon Aug 4 08:43:51 2008
From: rlharris at oplink.net (Russell L. Harris)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 10:43:51 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] newbie confusion: executing a perl script
In-Reply-To: <20080804071649.061d261f@sovvan>
References: <20080804080750.GA3578@tmiaf> <20080804071649.061d261f@sovvan>
Message-ID: <20080804154351.GC3578@tmiaf>
* G. Wade Johnson [080804 07:21]:
>> year. But when I attempted to execute the script bash returned an
>> error message:
>>
>> $ ./gus_morse.pl --path ~/scratch/message.txt
>>
>> bash: ./gus_morse.pl: /usr/bin/perl^M: bad interpreter: No such
>> file or directory
> The error message actually tells you exactly what you need to know. The
> perl program it is trying to run is wrong, because it has a carriage
> return in the name.
>
> This is usually caused by trying to run a DOS/Windows formatted file on
> some UNIX flavor.
>
> Run dos2unix on the script.
Thanks, Wade. You solved the problem.
Upon encountering the error, the first thing I did was to search for
control-M using Emacs, and nothing was found; obviously I need to read
over the section of the Emacs manual which covers searching for
control characters.
I had good reason to believe that the author of the script was running
Linux, but I suppose that running dos2unix is a worthwhile precaution
for any script which is downloaded from the web.
A while back, a Perl script which I wrote appeared to be behaving
pathologically, until I discovered that the text files which I was
attempting to process (and, indeed, was processing with a great
measure of success) had been generated on a DO$/Window$ system.
Regards,
RLH
From gwadej at anomaly.org Tue Aug 5 20:28:19 2008
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 22:28:19 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] Test::Group
Message-ID: <20080805222819.0c4cedf9@sovvan>
If you haven't checked out the module Test::Group, it's definitely
worth a look. The feature I found most interesting was described in the
section of the docs labelled Reflexivity.
This allows you to easily build new test predicates that internally can
use all of the normal Test::More predicates, but only count as a single
test.
Pretty nice for testing complex objects.
G. Wade
--
The computer should be doing the hard work. That's what it's paid to do,
after all. -- Larry Wall
From todd.e.rinaldo at jpmorgan.com Wed Aug 6 09:24:17 2008
From: todd.e.rinaldo at jpmorgan.com (todd.e.rinaldo at jpmorgan.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 11:24:17 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] Test::Group
Message-ID:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: houston-bounces+todd.e.rinaldo=jpmorgan.com at pm.org
> [mailto:houston-bounces+todd.e.rinaldo=jpmorgan.com at pm.org]
> On Behalf Of G. Wade Johnson
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 10:28 PM
> To: houston at pm.org
> Subject: [pm-h] Test::Group
>
>
> If you haven't checked out the module Test::Group, it's definitely
> worth a look. The feature I found most interesting was
> described in the
> section of the docs labelled Reflexivity.
>
> This allows you to easily build new test predicates that
> internally can
> use all of the normal Test::More predicates, but only count
> as a single
> test.
>
> Pretty nice for testing complex objects.
>
> G. Wade
I like it but it doesn't solve my largest problem, which is testing
failures on an object. I keep finding myself doing the following ALOT
1. Manufacture datastructure I expect to fail
2. call sub (sometimes with an eval around it)
3. Test ref type for return (possibly multiple if it's an array)
4. test result value(s)
5. test $@ for expected result
6. Clear $@
Makes a single test ugly, but I'm not sure if Test::group solves this
problem. Does anyone know of any modules that would fix this problem?
Generally, this communication is for informational purposes only
and it is not intended as an offer or solicitation for the purchase
or sale of any financial instrument or as an official confirmation
of any transaction. In the event you are receiving the offering
materials attached below related to your interest in hedge funds or
private equity, this communication may be intended as an offer or
solicitation for the purchase or sale of such fund(s). All market
prices, data and other information are not warranted as to
completeness or accuracy and are subject to change without notice.
Any comments or statements made herein do not necessarily reflect
those of JPMorgan Chase & Co., its subsidiaries and affiliates.
This transmission may contain information that is privileged,
confidential, legally privileged, and/or exempt from disclosure
under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you
are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or
use of the information contained herein (including any reliance
thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. Although this transmission and any
attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect
that might affect any computer system into which it is received and
opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it
is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by JPMorgan Chase &
Co., its subsidiaries and affiliates, as applicable, for any loss
or damage arising in any way from its use. If you received this
transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and
destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard
copy format. Thank you.
Please refer to http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures for
disclosures relating to UK legal entities.
From gwadej at anomaly.org Wed Aug 6 16:22:45 2008
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 18:22:45 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] Test::Group
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <20080806182245.4b700e6a@sovvan>
Test::Group might be able to help with some of this.
On Wed, 6 Aug 2008 11:24:17 -0500
todd.e.rinaldo at jpmorgan.com wrote:
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: houston-bounces+todd.e.rinaldo=jpmorgan.com at pm.org
> > [mailto:houston-bounces+todd.e.rinaldo=jpmorgan.com at pm.org]
> > On Behalf Of G. Wade Johnson
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 10:28 PM
> > To: houston at pm.org
> > Subject: [pm-h] Test::Group
> >
> >
> > If you haven't checked out the module Test::Group, it's definitely
> > worth a look. The feature I found most interesting was
> > described in the
> > section of the docs labelled Reflexivity.
> >
> > This allows you to easily build new test predicates that
> > internally can
> > use all of the normal Test::More predicates, but only count
> > as a single
> > test.
> >
> > Pretty nice for testing complex objects.
> >
> > G. Wade
>
>
> I like it but it doesn't solve my largest problem, which is testing
> failures on an object. I keep finding myself doing the following ALOT
>
> 1. Manufacture datastructure I expect to fail
> 2. call sub (sometimes with an eval around it)
> 3. Test ref type for return (possibly multiple if it's an array)
> 4. test result value(s)
> 5. test $@ for expected result
> 6. Clear $@
sub call_fails
{
my $code = shift;
my $return_type = shift;
my $exception = shift;
test 'call_fails' => sub {
local $@;
eval {
my $ret = $code->();
isa_ok( $ret, $return_type );
};
is( $@, $exception ) if $@;
};
}
call_fails( \&failing_sub, 'BadResult', 'The method failed' );
This counts as one test and does one of two tests.
G. Wade
>
> Makes a single test ugly, but I'm not sure if Test::group solves this
> problem. Does anyone know of any modules that would fix this problem?
> Generally, this communication is for informational purposes only
> and it is not intended as an offer or solicitation for the purchase
> or sale of any financial instrument or as an official confirmation
> of any transaction. In the event you are receiving the offering
> materials attached below related to your interest in hedge funds or
> private equity, this communication may be intended as an offer or
> solicitation for the purchase or sale of such fund(s). All market
> prices, data and other information are not warranted as to
> completeness or accuracy and are subject to change without notice.
> Any comments or statements made herein do not necessarily reflect
> those of JPMorgan Chase & Co., its subsidiaries and affiliates.
>
> This transmission may contain information that is privileged,
> confidential, legally privileged, and/or exempt from disclosure
> under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you
> are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or
> use of the information contained herein (including any reliance
> thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. Although this transmission and any
> attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect
> that might affect any computer system into which it is received and
> opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it
> is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by JPMorgan Chase &
> Co., its subsidiaries and affiliates, as applicable, for any loss
> or damage arising in any way from its use. If you received this
> transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and
> destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard
> copy format. Thank you.
> Please refer to http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures for
> disclosures relating to UK legal entities.
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
--
Make no decision out of fear. -- Bruce Sterling
From gwadej at anomaly.org Wed Aug 6 18:19:15 2008
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 20:19:15 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] Test::Group example
Message-ID: <20080806201915.02aa55e6@sovvan>
To give an idea of one way to use Test::Group, here's an example from a
module I just "finished". It would be used like this
quantity_ok( $q, 'a quantity',
{ value => 3.14, units => 'lb', str => '3.14 lb' }
);
Despite the fact that it does 5 sub-tests, it would still count as one
test.
See the code below:
-------------------------------------------
#
# Special test method that allows for specialized testing of Quantity
# objects. The arguments to this function are
#
# $q - Quantity object to test
# $name - name of the test
# $desc - description of the tests to run as a hashref
#
# The $desc hashref contains tells which individual subtests to run on
# the object. The defined subtests are:
#
# null - if set to the true value test is_null() returns true, defaults
# to testing if it is false.
# value - the result of the value() method must match the value of this
# parameter
# units - the result of the units() method must match the value of this
# parameter
# str - the results of stringify() direct interpolation of the object
# must match the value of this parameter.
#
# In addition, the object is always tested if it is a Quantity
#
sub quantity_ok
{
my $q = shift;
my $name = shift;
my $desc = shift;
test $name => sub {
isa_ok( $q, 'Weather::Bug::Quantity' );
if( $desc->{null} )
{
ok( $q->is_null(), "is null Quantity" );
}
else
{
ok( !$q->is_null(), "is not null Quantity" );
}
if( exists $desc->{value} )
{
is( $q->value(), $desc->{value}, "value matches" );
}
if( exists $desc->{units} )
{
is( $q->units(), $desc->{units}, "units match" );
}
if( exists $desc->{str} )
{
is( $q->stringify(), $desc->{str}, "string form correct" );
is( "$q", $desc->{str}, "string form correct, overload" );
}
};
}
---------------------------------------------
This is not a solution to all problems, but it does help clean up a
class of them I've been annoyed by.
G. Wade
--
As a software development model, Anarchy does not scale well.
-- Dave Welch
From gwadej at anomaly.org Mon Aug 11 17:19:10 2008
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 19:19:10 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] August Meeting
Message-ID: <20080811191910.33a541df@sovvan>
The August meeting is upon us.
We'll meet at 1111 Fannin as usual at 6pm. See the meeting page at
http://houston.pm.org/meetings.html for a map and directions.
As usual, we'll be in the lobby until around 6:20 and then go up to the
meeting room. Parking on the street is free after 6pm.
This month we will be continuing the work/discussion on the Perl 6 test
suite.
Hope to see you there.
G. Wade
--
There are trivial truths and there are great Truths. The opposite of a
trival truth is obviously false. The opposite of a great Truth is also
true. -- Neils Bohr
From todd.e.rinaldo at jpmorgan.com Mon Aug 11 17:36:40 2008
From: todd.e.rinaldo at jpmorgan.com (todd.e.rinaldo at jpmorgan.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 19:36:40 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] August Meeting
Message-ID:
All if you plan to attend, please email the list, even if it's at the last
minute. Otherwise we will head upstairs early once we have a quarum.
Thanks,
Todd
> -----Original Message-----
> From: houston-bounces+todd.e.rinaldo=jpmorgan.com at pm.org
> [mailto:houston-bounces+todd.e.rinaldo=jpmorgan.com at pm.org]
> On Behalf Of G. Wade Johnson
> Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 7:19 PM
> To: houston at pm.org
> Subject: [pm-h] August Meeting
>
>
> The August meeting is upon us.
>
> We'll meet at 1111 Fannin as usual at 6pm. See the meeting page at
> http://houston.pm.org/meetings.html for a map and directions.
>
> As usual, we'll be in the lobby until around 6:20 and then go
> up to the
> meeting room. Parking on the street is free after 6pm.
>
> This month we will be continuing the work/discussion on the
> Perl 6 test
> suite.
>
> Hope to see you there.
> G. Wade
> --
> There are trivial truths and there are great Truths. The opposite of a
> trival truth is obviously false. The opposite of a great Truth is also
> true. -- Neils Bohr
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>
Generally, this communication is for informational purposes only
and it is not intended as an offer or solicitation for the purchase
or sale of any financial instrument or as an official confirmation
of any transaction. In the event you are receiving the offering
materials attached below related to your interest in hedge funds or
private equity, this communication may be intended as an offer or
solicitation for the purchase or sale of such fund(s). All market
prices, data and other information are not warranted as to
completeness or accuracy and are subject to change without notice.
Any comments or statements made herein do not necessarily reflect
those of JPMorgan Chase & Co., its subsidiaries and affiliates.
This transmission may contain information that is privileged,
confidential, legally privileged, and/or exempt from disclosure
under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you
are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or
use of the information contained herein (including any reliance
thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. Although this transmission and any
attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect
that might affect any computer system into which it is received and
opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it
is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by JPMorgan Chase &
Co., its subsidiaries and affiliates, as applicable, for any loss
or damage arising in any way from its use. If you received this
transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and
destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard
copy format. Thank you.
Please refer to http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures for
disclosures relating to UK legal entities.
From jvogt at houston.oilfield.slb.com Tue Aug 12 12:47:45 2008
From: jvogt at houston.oilfield.slb.com (Jay Vogt)
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:47:45 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] Perl XML RPC server recommendation
Message-ID: <48A1E8E1.5060009@houston.oilfield.slb.com>
All,
Does anyone have experience with XML RPC who
can recommend which of the various offerings on
CPAN to go with? There is an XML-RPC and one
from Frontier.
Regards,
Jay Vogt
From gwadej at anomaly.org Tue Aug 26 05:27:06 2008
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 07:27:06 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] RedHat patch causes slodowns on Perl
Message-ID: <20080826072706.0fdc8d1b@sovvan>
Important message on PerlBuzz about a bug on RedHat that causes massive
slowdown's in Perl.
http://perlbuzz.com/2008/08/red-hats-patch-slows-down-overloading-in-perl.html
G. Wade
--
It's easier to port a shell than a shell script. -- Larry Wall
From gwadej at anomaly.org Tue Aug 26 20:15:27 2008
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:15:27 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] Fw: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, August 26
Message-ID: <20080826221527.2b6fdc77@sovvan>
New information from our friend Marsee at O'Reilly.
Begin forwarded message:
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:59:32 -0700
From: "Marsee Henon"
Hi there,
Speakers, UG leaders, or anyone else interested in improving your
presentations, let me send you our new book "slide:ology."
Garr Reynolds (Presentation Zen) just wrote on his blog
"Nancy Duarte, the Principle of Duarte Design (the firm behind the
creation of Al Gore's Oscar-winning presentations), has published a
presentation book for the rest of us. It's called 'slide:ology: The Art
and Science of Creating Great Presentations.' 'slide:ology' is
practical, it's highly visual, and it's beautiful. I love this book."
Watch the book trailer here.
Gabrielle Roth and Selena Deckelmann presented "Running a Successful
User Group" at OSCON 2008 in Portland this year. Here's their slide
show: They also put together a flyer
with suggestions on every aspect of running a user group.
Need a pass for Photoshop World in Las Vegas on Friday, September 5th
and Saturday, September 6th? I've got one I can send you.
We've got some great books coming out and we're looking for Amazon,
Slashdot, and oreilly.com reviews. If you're interested, new titles
include "Head First Ajax," "Head First Statistics," "Intellectual
Property and Open Source," "The Productive Programmer," "Website
Optimization," and "Programming .NET 3.5."
If you haven't had a chance to check them out, Deke McClelland's dekePod
videos are worth a watch or two. We've got plenty on the way so think
about subscribing in iTunes by searching for dekePod or bookmarking our
dekePod page at: .
101 Photoshop Tips in Five Minutes
Metadata Forensics, What a Crock
Stealth 'Shop, The Virgin Histogram
Don't Fear the Lab Mode
Stretching a Photo in Illustrator
And thanks to everyone who stopped by the O'Reilly booth at OSCON. We
had a great time. Here are our photos from our T-shirt contest and the
conference.
--Marsee
================================================================
O'Reilly UG Program News--Just for User Group Leaders
August 26, 2008
================================================================
***Put Up a Banner, Get a Free Book
We're looking for user groups to display our discount banners on their
web sites. If you send me your group's site with one or more banners,
I'll send you the O'Reilly book(s) of your choice. Choose from
the following list:
Customizable O'Reilly Book Widgets
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35% off User Group Discount Banners
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================================================================
O'Reilly News for User Group Members
August 26, 2008
================================================================
---------------------------------------------------------------
New Releases--Books, Short Cuts, and Rough Cuts
----------------------------------------------------------------
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Ever wonder why the SAME PEOPLE make up ALL the conspiracy theories?
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From cblanc at dionysius.com Wed Aug 27 10:46:49 2008
From: cblanc at dionysius.com (Chris Blanc)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:46:49 -0700
Subject: [pm-h] RedHat patch causes slodowns on Perl
In-Reply-To: <20080826072706.0fdc8d1b@sovvan>
References: <20080826072706.0fdc8d1b@sovvan>
Message-ID: <20080827174649.GC6819@dionysius.com>
Hi,
I don't know if I've posted to this list before (insert pithy statement
of personal disorganization) but this article made me steam a little:
http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2008/08/why_corporates_hate_perl.html
I think everything in it is true, and I've seen this situation in
progress at past jobs. People like to blame the tool, and find a trend
to purchase instead, than get down to the hard work of making machines
do what you want them to do.
I'm no Perl expert, but I've applied it in enough situations where it
has done wonders to question the wisdom of anyone who says it's not a
fit solution. I do think it's a victim of its own success; the same
"typing error" style that makes it sometimes efficient for an expert can
make it anathema to others, and rather than admit their inexpertise (or,
God forbid, crack a book and figure it out) they blame the tool.
Chris
On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 07:27:06AM -0500, G. Wade Johnson wrote:
> Important message on PerlBuzz about a bug on RedHat that causes massive
> slowdown's in Perl.
>
> http://perlbuzz.com/2008/08/red-hats-patch-slows-down-overloading-in-perl.html
>
> G. Wade
> --
> It's easier to port a shell than a shell script. -- Larry Wall
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
--
http://www.dionysius.com/
Internet intoxication.
http://www.chrisblanc.org/blog/
You know: stuff; insightful +2
From toddr at null.net Wed Aug 27 14:52:13 2008
From: toddr at null.net (Todd Rinaldo)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 16:52:13 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] RedHat patch causes slodowns on Perl
In-Reply-To: <20080827174649.GC6819@dionysius.com>
References: <20080826072706.0fdc8d1b@sovvan>
<20080827174649.GC6819@dionysius.com>
Message-ID: <748c25c20808271452x3e2fff47x47772083cc732936@mail.gmail.com>
Good/bad code can be written in any language. Personally I'm waiting
on the day when Java hits crappy code critical mass and they start to
consider it "legacy". Seems like all the outsourcing should have
achieved this goal by now. What I wonder is what the lag is for
managers to figure this out.
On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 12:46 PM, Chris Blanc wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I don't know if I've posted to this list before (insert pithy statement
> of personal disorganization) but this article made me steam a little:
>
> http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2008/08/why_corporates_hate_perl.html
>
> I think everything in it is true, and I've seen this situation in
> progress at past jobs. People like to blame the tool, and find a trend
> to purchase instead, than get down to the hard work of making machines
> do what you want them to do.
>
> I'm no Perl expert, but I've applied it in enough situations where it
> has done wonders to question the wisdom of anyone who says it's not a
> fit solution. I do think it's a victim of its own success; the same
> "typing error" style that makes it sometimes efficient for an expert can
> make it anathema to others, and rather than admit their inexpertise (or,
> God forbid, crack a book and figure it out) they blame the tool.
>
>
>
> Chris
>
> On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 07:27:06AM -0500, G. Wade Johnson wrote:
>> Important message on PerlBuzz about a bug on RedHat that causes massive
>> slowdown's in Perl.
>>
>> http://perlbuzz.com/2008/08/red-hats-patch-slows-down-overloading-in-perl.html
>>
>> G. Wade
>> --
>> It's easier to port a shell than a shell script. -- Larry Wall
>> _______________________________________________
>> Houston mailing list
>> Houston at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
>> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>
> --
>
> http://www.dionysius.com/
> Internet intoxication.
>
> http://www.chrisblanc.org/blog/
> You know: stuff; insightful +2
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>
--
Todd Rinaldo
toddr at null.net
From gwadej at anomaly.org Wed Aug 27 16:46:44 2008
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 18:46:44 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] RedHat patch causes slodowns on Perl
In-Reply-To: <20080827174649.GC6819@dionysius.com>
References: <20080826072706.0fdc8d1b@sovvan>
<20080827174649.GC6819@dionysius.com>
Message-ID: <20080827184644.2f164d79@sovvan>
On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:46:49 -0700
Chris Blanc wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I don't know if I've posted to this list before (insert pithy
> statement of personal disorganization) but this article made me steam
> a little:
>
> http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2008/08/why_corporates_hate_perl.html
I saw this same thing in another company with a different language. In
our case, the company went through a take over and the new management
was convinced that all of the problems were due to the language in
which we did the development.
That had nothing to do with the problems, of course. But no one would
listen.
> I think everything in it is true, and I've seen this situation in
> progress at past jobs. People like to blame the tool, and find a
> trend to purchase instead, than get down to the hard work of making
> machines do what you want them to do.
At one place that I worked, I was called upon to troubleshoot and fix a
"piece of crap Perl server" that had suddenly broken. When I tried to
find out any information about the person who wrote it or any possible
documentation, I was told that no one had touched it in about 6-7 years.
I pointed out that a server that ran every day for 6-7 years without
any maintenance could not reasonably be called a "piece of crap". That
caused a few raised eyebrows and thoughtful looks.
While I will admit that this program was certainly not a thing of
beauty, it turned out the problem was easy to fix. They had moved it to
a much faster machine that ended up violating some assumptions made in
the code. A couple days of work and it was running again without
problems.
I wonder how long that little piece of Perl will run without further
maintenance in a shop that was at least somewhat Perl-hostile.
> I'm no Perl expert, but I've applied it in enough situations where it
> has done wonders to question the wisdom of anyone who says it's not a
> fit solution. I do think it's a victim of its own success; the same
> "typing error" style that makes it sometimes efficient for an expert
> can make it anathema to others, and rather than admit their
> inexpertise (or, God forbid, crack a book and figure it out) they
> blame the tool.
G. Wade
--
They made a very satisfying thump when they hit the floor.
-- G'Kar - "A Late Delivery from Avalon"
From cblanc at dionysius.com Thu Aug 28 07:39:13 2008
From: cblanc at dionysius.com (Chris Blanc)
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 07:39:13 -0700
Subject: [pm-h] RedHat patch causes slodowns on Perl
In-Reply-To: <20080827184644.2f164d79@sovvan>
References: <20080826072706.0fdc8d1b@sovvan>
<20080827174649.GC6819@dionysius.com>
<20080827184644.2f164d79@sovvan>
Message-ID: <20080828143913.GB15028@dionysius.com>
Wade,
I think that's part of the problem: much of the web runs on Perl code,
but it works, so it rarely makes headlines.
Echoing other comments here, I think it's more important to have a
general purpose language be widely known by people informed enough to
write specialized code, that to drown in specialized languages that at
the end of the day are more often "trend" than "innovation."
Chris
On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 06:46:44PM -0500, G. Wade Johnson wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:46:49 -0700
> Chris Blanc wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I don't know if I've posted to this list before (insert pithy
> > statement of personal disorganization) but this article made me steam
> > a little:
> >
> > http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2008/08/why_corporates_hate_perl.html
>
> I saw this same thing in another company with a different language. In
> our case, the company went through a take over and the new management
> was convinced that all of the problems were due to the language in
> which we did the development.
>
> That had nothing to do with the problems, of course. But no one would
> listen.
>
> > I think everything in it is true, and I've seen this situation in
> > progress at past jobs. People like to blame the tool, and find a
> > trend to purchase instead, than get down to the hard work of making
> > machines do what you want them to do.
>
> At one place that I worked, I was called upon to troubleshoot and fix a
> "piece of crap Perl server" that had suddenly broken. When I tried to
> find out any information about the person who wrote it or any possible
> documentation, I was told that no one had touched it in about 6-7 years.
>
> I pointed out that a server that ran every day for 6-7 years without
> any maintenance could not reasonably be called a "piece of crap". That
> caused a few raised eyebrows and thoughtful looks.
>
> While I will admit that this program was certainly not a thing of
> beauty, it turned out the problem was easy to fix. They had moved it to
> a much faster machine that ended up violating some assumptions made in
> the code. A couple days of work and it was running again without
> problems.
>
> I wonder how long that little piece of Perl will run without further
> maintenance in a shop that was at least somewhat Perl-hostile.
>
> > I'm no Perl expert, but I've applied it in enough situations where it
> > has done wonders to question the wisdom of anyone who says it's not a
> > fit solution. I do think it's a victim of its own success; the same
> > "typing error" style that makes it sometimes efficient for an expert
> > can make it anathema to others, and rather than admit their
> > inexpertise (or, God forbid, crack a book and figure it out) they
> > blame the tool.
>
> G. Wade
> --
> They made a very satisfying thump when they hit the floor.
> -- G'Kar - "A Late Delivery from Avalon"
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
--
http://www.dionysius.com/
Internet intoxication.
http://www.chrisblanc.org/blog/
You know: stuff; insightful +2