its b.s. and obvious east coast bias that we couldn't even get ONE of the awards out of offensive/defensive rookie, coach, exec..and I'm not one to usually complain about east coast bias, it is what it is, but 0 recognition by voters for the young talent, drafting and decision making by this team is a complete joke.

Makes sense. RGIII, Luck and Wilson all had pretty good seasons. RGIII playing in a division that many still thinks is the NFC's best and has the most media coverage helps him get the big bump. Also if you followed other media across the country, the conversation for the longest was Luck vs RGIII.

No one needs to drop their head in shame, it was a good season but RGIII pulled the Skins back into revelancy and entertainment value with his play. Wilson was handcuffed or brought along slowly and that kept his momentum from gaining any steam until late in the season. The voters would want to see a season long consistent level and RGIII had that for the national audience.

Wilson has been all over the map, whether a concerted effort or not, he has gotten some serious face time at the Pro-Bowl and New Orleans. He doesn't get that at the Pro-Bowl unless RGIII and Ryan drop out.

Hawknballs wrote:i think by the time people voted nobody thought the nfc east was the best with the giants falling apart, the cowboys being the cowboys, and the redskins eeking out wins over teams like the browns.

Sure, but ask the NFC East covering media if it isn't the best division. Not saying it is true. Just that is what those covering that division feel. The NFC East has not been dominating in a few years with the Eagles, Skins and Cowboys being inconsistent. NY Giants have been inconsistent as well, but had put together several late season runs to win two Superbowls. You cannot take that away from the Giants.

Last edited by drdiags on Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

As I posted in an earlier thread on this topic while the "race" for ROTY is still "competitive", I noted that the only way Russell was going to win was for him the "win out" the last seven games. Win the Division Championship and then at least play a great game in the Super Bowl.

Of course, I've heard that the vote was tabulated just after the last Regular Season game, so I guess that it is a moot point.

Hawknballs wrote:its b.s. and obvious east coast bias that we couldn't even get ONE of the awards out of offensive/defensive rookie, coach, exec..and I'm not one to usually complain about east coast bias, it is what it is, but 0 recognition by voters for the young talent, drafting and decision making by this team is a complete joke.

You mean INcomplete joke don't you?, as in I may be slow at catching drift of a joke now and then, this one doesn't even pretend to have a punch line.I just want (chips on the shoulders) "CHIP WILSON" and the NEW SEAHAWKS to blow up those NFL pretenders next Season.RGIII would make a fine backup to Wilson, as he'd have plenty of time to heal up riding the pine pony, and too, he'd MAYBE learn how to prepare for a game and how NOT to run himself into harms way, and also how to live to fight another day, and too, NOT cost his team by making foolish decisions while under fire,,,,But then again, I don't know that he could absorb the cool composure from zen master QB Russell Wilson.

This was almost a landslide. 29 votes against 21 combined for the second and the third?This is utter nonsense. This is simply pathetic. I don't mind other guys winning, but NOT by this margin. No, not by this difference.This should motivate Wilson even more (hopefully). Now, let's get that Lombardi next season ...

drdiags wrote:Makes sense. RGIII, Luck and Wilson all had pretty good seasons. RGIII playing in a division that many still thinks is the NFC's best and has the most media coverage helps him get the big bump. Also if you followed other media across the country, the conversation for the longest was Luck vs RGIII.

No one needs to drop their head in shame, it was a good season but RGIII pulled the Skins back into revelancy and entertainment value with his play. Wilson was handcuffed or brought along slowly and that kept his momentum from gaining any steam until late in the season. The voters would want to see a season long consistent level and RGIII had that for the national audience.

Wilson has been all over the map, whether a concerted effort or not, he has gotten some serious face time at the Pro-Bowl and New Orleans. He doesn't get that at the Pro-Bowl unless RGIII and Ryan drop out.

Ah well, the deck was stacked against Wilson. The Redkins' system and players kept RG3 in nifty, short yardage situations which allowed him to have an artificially high passer rating, but that stat just gave the East Coast mediots something else to pull from their pocket. He did the rest with his feet. The consolation prize is that Wilson finished healthy, won a game in the post season, took the Vizio TVP, picked up a grunch of enorsements and his media darling status will help to expand the market for the Hawks. Those are some noteworty accomplishments for a 3rd round pick.

Had RW been given more plays earlier in the season (IE read option), I'm conident his efficiency rating would have been as good or greater than RG3. He broke an NCAA record for efficiency as exhibit A. RG3 probably would have won anyhow because of the media bias and the wow factor you mentioned. The only things I really don't like is how lopsided the voting was, and that Luck had more votes than RW, but AP does the voting, so what can you do.

If it was up to me, Wilson or RGIII winning it is fine. Votes should have been closer. I thought for sure Luck was going to win it because of his pedigree.

Looking at Wilson and RGIII, Wilson's backend of the season was just as spectacular as RGIII's front-end. I think what got a majority of voters on his bandwagon was the two Dallas games along with beating the Giants the second time around, though it was a snoozer. That Ravens win was costly for him and the Skins. Took away his wheels and it cost them in the end.

For the record:

I thought Schneider was robbed.

I was hoping for Wagner, thought David was his main competition though Kuechly was a tackling machine at MLB.

I thought Wilson was OROY because of the vibe I was getting from the media. They usually only hitch their wagon to shooting stars so figured they knew something. Now I realize it was for next year and beyond that they were counting on.

I didn't think Carroll had a chance, since he isn't looked upon seriously by many mediots because of his time in NY and with the Patriots. The media is like an old dog, adverse to new tricks.

That would be easy to say, and with most players it might be true, but I don't think Russell plays angry. He seems to be far more grounded than that. This will just increase his focus, which if it gets any sharper, could probably cut tungsten steel. Can't wait for next year.

While it doesn't really matter whether or not RW got 2nd or 3rd, I do think that's ridiculous. Luck had lots of passing yards, hooray...That nonsense about him being on the worst team is just that. The Colts were an annual 13-3 team, with 1, just ONE down year.

I wasn't going to be surprised with either Russel or Robert getting it. Rob was awesome right out of the gate. I think it took a few (just a few) games for Russel to get 100% comfortable, but he closed out a little better, and Rob missed a game.

My Hawks buddy and I were joking how it was gonna be downright 50/50. Both had awesome RBs, can't separate that. Both limited their turnovers. RG3 had less, but Russel more passing TDs. Both quickly became the leaders of their teams, both went to the playoffs.

I guess RG3 won his division, and was rookie of the week 7 times during the year. That, and yes, the voting process, gave him the edge. I wouldn't call it a 'bias' though. I mean, you're kidding right, the media over here has DESTROYED the Redskins over the years. (As for them favoring Shannahan over Carrol, that also must be a joke lol, they wanted Shanny FIRED this year..) The media's just busier on the east, more people, more voters, whatever. Then again, it is 2013, and everything happens on cell phones and tablets.

RG3 had 7 rookie of the weeks, 2 rookie of the months, 2 NFC player of the weeks, had a "perfect game" (59th in history, and youngest player to do so), and made the pro bowl.

Russel had 1 rookie of the week, 1 rookie of the month, 1 NFC player of the week, and made the pro bowl.

You could point to Russel's crazy awesome game winning drives, but RG3 had such games as well. Stalemate there imo.

I dunno how much all that matters. I dunno how much getting injured affects it. I do know, that for awhile, the Seahawks and Redskins were the 2 hottest teams in the NFC by far, both lead by their rookie and their awesome running game. So it had to take a lot of nitpicking to find a winner, and I'm guessing once they looked at every stat (RG3 broke a number a rookie records this year as well), RG3 started to look better on paper.

Again, I wouldn't have been surprised either way. RG3 was kind of expected to do some great things, but Russel came almost out of nowhere and did arguably just as well.

Besides, the Hawks have the more important victory over the Skins lately...

Griffin had better numbers except for less TD's thrown in less time played due to injury. The fact that Griffin led the league for the lowest INT percentage as a rookie starting 15 games was remarkable. As much as people put Luck over for his turning around a franchise Griffin took a crappy offensive team and transformed their offense into a number 4 team in points and number 5 in yards. He had more help than Luck with a very capable running back, but you can't make that argument in favor of Wilson since we have Lynch.

BASF wrote:Griffin had better numbers except for less TD's thrown in less time played due to injury.

The difference between the two's numbers was marginal at best, and Wilson played in a much tougher division. Griffin was also fortunate enough to play within a stat-padding offensive system that was also a mirror image of what he ran at Baylor. The numbers alone don't really tell you anything where they're that close.

Also, Griffin threw for six less TDs than Wilson. He wouldn't have made that up by playing one extra game.

Last edited by DavidSeven on Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

RolandDeschain wrote:As I've said before, half of RG3's passes were screens and shovels to the RB, it's BS that he won by such a large margin; and Luck getting 1 more vote than Wilson? Yeah, ok. Douches.

I agree Wilson should have been closer, but come on man, the thing about dumpoff passes has been squashed. He lead the league in completion % on passes 20+ yards, and actually averaged slightly more yards per pass all year than Russel.

If anything you would say he benefited from a great running game, but of course, so did Russel.

RolandDeschain wrote:As I've said before, half of RG3's passes were screens and shovels to the RB, it's BS that he won by such a large margin; and Luck getting 1 more vote than Wilson? Yeah, ok. Douches.

I agree Wilson should have been closer, but come on man, the thing about dumpoff passes has been squashed. He lead the league in completion % on passes 20+ yards, and actually averaged slightly more yards per pass all year than Russel.

If anything you would say he benefited from a great running game, but of course, so did Russel.

Wilson benefited from a defense and special team that always put him in good position.

RolandDeschain wrote:As I've said before, half of RG3's passes were screens and shovels to the RB, it's BS that he won by such a large margin; and Luck getting 1 more vote than Wilson? Yeah, ok. Douches.

I agree Wilson should have been closer, but come on man, the thing about dumpoff passes has been squashed. He lead the league in completion % on passes 20+ yards, and actually averaged slightly more yards per pass all year than Russel.

If anything you would say he benefited from a great running game, but of course, so did Russel.

Wilson benefited from a defense and special team that always put him in good position.

Yeh. Just like the Chicago game. They really put him in a good position. Whatever.

How can a guy that is THAT valuable dissregard his team"s investment and run outside of protection sustaining a VERY predictable injury and have any claim to be the best rookie?

People claim praise on his accomplishments in 12 or so games compared to 17 for Luck and a bright future for the Colt's where he can pick up where he left off...and 18 for Wilson who when deciding to run outside of the pocket did not sustain so much as a scratch allowing his brilliant rookie season to build into a very exciting second season for the Seahawks.

There is no gaurantee that 3Gc P O will be anything next season like he was in season one.

It isn't like he is Adrian Peterson that only has to do one thing well. AND Peterson is a fluke. NOBODY comes back from surgery like THAT. WASH will not have Bobby to help prepare for 2013. He will be lucky if he is healthy enough to play at all until mid or late September. His preventable injury and surgery has put WASH in a very bad position to "Pick up where a healthy 3G left off".

NFC East teams will be going after his repaired knee. RG3's rookie year will end up being a novelty. His award will end up being a joke.

I dunno how a nose tackle falling on your leg is predictable. RG was hurt in a scramble that every last QB in the NFL would have attempted. Down 8, 2 minute warning, had to get the yards. And it helped them win the game which was a downright miracle. So while you look at that as a bad thing, maybe others look at it as a gutsy performance with an unfortunate injury in between. The thing RG3 people need to fear is the designed runs/keeps, but even in that regard, he showed huge improvement throughout the year in protecting himself. You call it predictable because of all those designed runs, but he was never even CLOSE to getting hurt on any of those. Twas a scramble, was unfortunate.

As for Adrian Peterson being a freak, sure he is. But medicine comes a long way each and every year. Did you know they're using stem cells (from the patients own bone marrow) for these knee surgeries treatments in the last couple years? The return timetable gets shorter every year.

The only thing I'm with you on is that it sucks for the Skins to not have RG3 'evolve' as usual through offseason/preseason work. But all the talk (from Skins fans, too) about RG3 being careless and 'disregarding his teams investment' is just ridiculous. That's just not reality, there is no player that changes his style based on how much his team payed for him. He was hurt on a necessary scramble, and otherwise showed that he learned how to protect himself. And the Vick comparisons are getting SOOOOOOOO old....

Again, Russel beat the Skins in the playoffs. The Hawks currently own the Skins as far as playoff games. This little award really shouldn't be getting people so upset..

RolandDeschain wrote:As I've said before, half of RG3's passes were screens and shovels to the RB, it's BS that he won by such a large margin; and Luck getting 1 more vote than Wilson? Yeah, ok. Douches.

I agree Wilson should have been closer, but come on man, the thing about dumpoff passes has been squashed. He lead the league in completion % on passes 20+ yards, and actually averaged slightly more yards per pass all year than Russel.

If anything you would say he benefited from a great running game, but of course, so did Russel.

Wilson was handcuffed through week 6. Look at the stats at the second half of the season for both of them (a more accurate picture as far as what to expect next year from both QBs) and check again. Wilson led the entire league in a bunch of categories since week 8. I'm not saying the first half doesn't count, I'm just saying you have to remember that our coaching staff kept him hamstrung to try and ease him into the pro game. The Redskins didn't really have to do that with RG3 because they basically copied his Baylor offense. That works for the first year, but he's going to go 5-11 or something if they do the SAME thing next year. Look for the Redskins to change the offense a bit. Defenses aren't stupid, even mediocre ones; they will adjust and be better prepared for the read option, and such.

RolandDeschain wrote:Wilson was handcuffed through week 6. Look at the stats at the second half of the season for both of them (a more accurate picture as far as what to expect next year from both QBs) and check again. Wilson led the entire league in a bunch of categories since week 8. I'm not saying the first half doesn't count, I'm just saying you have to remember that our coaching staff kept him hamstrung to try and ease him into the pro game. The Redskins didn't really have to do that with RG3 because they basically copied his Baylor offense. That works for the first year, but he's going to go 5-11 or something if they do the SAME thing next year. Look for the Redskins to change the offense a bit. Defenses aren't stupid, even mediocre ones; they will adjust and be better prepared for the read option, and such.

Saying they simply 'copied Baylor's offense' gives far too little credit to Mike and Kyle Shannahan for what they did with the offense. It was more like a hybrid. If it was as simple as copying a college offense, everyone would do it. On the contrary, wouldn't you have to be one heck of a player to execute an offense that's not supposed to work in the NFL?

They will change the offense a bit, but not because they're scared of the NFL adjusting. You will still see plenty of pistol, and by the way...you know the Hawks do a lot of the same stuff right..?...and it's debatable as to whether Carrol and Harbaugh and others actually picked up on the idea from the Shannahans...at least the execution of it, it's not like they'd never heard of it.

By all accounts, yea, Carrol didn't really 'set Russel free' right away, but it all went as necessary. I watched every Seahawks game this year. For the first 5 weeks or so, Russel looked a little unsure, a little nervous, a little 'uh oh' during some plays, particularly his scrambles...which quickly evolved into what he's great at. But those first 5 weeks were necessary. Again, you're not giving enough credit to these coaches. Are you implying Carroll is a dummy for not 'setting him free' sooner? Maybe it was necessary for him to acclimate to the NFL, as it usually is for any rookie, it's nothing to be ashamed of or anything. RG3 was lights out, driving defenses nuts from week 1, and the only thing that slowed him down was injury.

I think you're forgetting just how similar the Seahawks and Redskins offenses are. You're basically predicting a 5-11 record for your team as well if you think everyone has to change everything every year. Nothing but a knee slowed down the Skins offense, and nothing but letting Matt Ryan get a couple late passes off stopped the Hawks. Did you also forget we're talking about the top 2 running games in the league? That's probably not going to change much (without RG3's yards, the Skins are still top 3 btw). I expect the Skins and Hawks to basically battle for the NFC for the foreseeable future.

RG3's yards aren't really relevant. It's the threat of his yards that helped Morris get a lot of yards this year. I also only said 5-11 would happen if nothing changed on offense. Despite what you think, I'm sure Papa Shanahan knows he needs to grow the offense and not do the same thing next year. Either the offense will evolve and be more "pro style", (I use that term rather loosely) or it will result in a good number of losses if it's the same. Just my opinion, we'll see what happens. Of course, your owner's craptastic field may have ruined RG3's mobility forever; we'll have to see how that knee comes back. It's always a crapshoot. Will he come back and be a bionic man like AP, or will it be more like one of the many guys that had their careers cut short or made the poorer? Hopefully the former, but damn, we might have lost against the Falcons because of the two guys we lost due to that crappy field, too.

Pretty much agreed on the field, but really RG3's knee was gonna need a big fix regardless after the Ngata hit. That ugly bend on the field hurt a lot but wasn't really the killing blow, that thing was about to go on any field. Anyway, yea enough players like Clemons and Ed Reed etc, saying it sucks, I'll take their word for it.

I'll also take Trent Dilfer's word to some degree that this was a 'bridge' offense, and of course there should be more pro style plays. But this could be an exception. That's the beauty of the pistol, the threat to run will be there but you can just as successfully pass. RG3 will always be a 'threat' to run, and really Alfred Morris is pretty damn good. You watch his whole seasons worth of runs and it's certainly not just a result of RG3. Each announcer, every game mentioned his yards after contact, he's beasty, like baby beast mode. It's the same reason RW is still going to be able to scramble around and get guys open on play action, Marshawn has to be respected.

And they ran the ball at a higher % than anyone in the league......just ahead of Seattle. Having THAT either makes it easier to play around with your passing plays, or allows you to stick with the way you were awesome on offense. I really don't think the read option plays are as dangerous as everyone thinks, they actually give you tons of room to work and protect yourself. As long as you do it right, and I think RW and RG3 can be trusted to do it right, and I think we'll continue to see it. It's no 'wildcat'.

Anyway, I think changes to the field are indeed going to happen, they just have to wait till winter's over.

Wilson definitely looked like the best of the rookie QBs in the second half of the season, but Griffin was consistently good the entire year. Got to give him credit for that. Can't fault the voters for this decision (if you want to point to anyone, Carroll is probably the right person to blame for Wilson not winning it... kept the reins too tight for too long).

I'm not OK with it. While RG3 is talented and everything, the bottom line is Wilson was overall better than either Luck or RG3. He singlehandedly brought the Hawks back in ATL, won a road playoff game and played every snap of football when he wasn't blowing the other team out. There are those that said the others did it with less, but he did it regardless. No preseason hype, no big Gatorade commercials and he made the Bears defense look silly in Chicago, then followed it up by making the Niners look like toast.

The only concern I have and I mean only is that Bevell will get cute and pass even though Lynch is gaining yardage. 1/30/2015 - loaf