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I think you're misinterpreting some things - these aren't hard limiters like the FBW on the M2K. They're there to provide awareness. All pilots are fairly experienced by the time they drive a flanker and the exact utility of these devices is taught to them.

You can expect any flanker pilot to pull right through this the moment they want to rate, especially at lower airspeeds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HWasp

In my opinion the purpose was to enable experienced pilots to get that last little bit of performance out of the aircraft at the expense of safety.

I think what the authors mean by that statement is that generally it does not worth the risk to go beyond limits. But also I have never seen an aircraft manual, that says: yea just go disregard any limits, it will be good for you

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Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump
I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

In one of my previous posts I have already given you the page number (14\269) where it clearly states the AoA limitations depending on Mach number. (Cannot upload from my tablet sorry)

Also, again I am aware of the basics.

I think that the purpose of a limiter should be to hold the limitations Also, since pulling through the limiter might be dangerous, I don't think that it was meant to be overriden by the average pilot all the time.

Looking forward to seeing what you have for us once you get back home. I'm here to learn, as I am not good at pointing out what's wrong with the FM or anything about aerodynamics. I find this discussion interesting and I'm very interested in seeing the DCS FM compared to the real thing.

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The rule is to not use direct control (which some people use in dogfights! In a dogfight, realistically, you probably wouldn't be reaching for that switch anyway - and it isn't necessary either). The limiter can be pulled through by applying more force to the stick ... no need to turn it off RL.

I thought that was not something they do IRL

One day I have had a long, guns only dogfight session with a friend of mine flying the Su-27 and I have found out that the best way to win the game is to go direct control before take off and switch it on for the landing only (IF there is a landing)

The plane is extremely responsive in that config, but of course I would not even think about it in a real plane.

My observation is that the limiter is too restrictive and it holds the aicraft way too far from it's real capabilities. In my opinion this might have something to do with the constant 22 deg AoA limit...

The speed on the stick deflection is something the limiter takes in count to activate the extra force needed. And is a sum of all this things, shaking, extra force-sttifening, and in the edge a force to the center that must be counter also.

More precisely i think is the speed in the amount of G or AoA increasing at any given moment.

Another thing is Direct Control. If by this you mean turning off the FBW ( the famous S key in DCS ) this is completly FORBIDDEN in the manual. Is extremly dangerous and you can crash the plane very easy.

Another thing is Direct Control. If by this you mean turning off the FBW ( the famous S key in DCS ) this is completly FORBIDDEN in the manual. Is extremly dangerous and you can crash the plane very easy.

I don't go anywhere near that switch except for demonstration purposes. It's a good way for the unwary to lose the aircraft.

I think that the purpose of a limiter should be to hold the limitations Also, since pulling through the limiter might be dangerous, I don't think that it was meant to be overriden by the average pilot all the time.

AFAIK the F-15 doesn't really have one and in the MiG-29 there is no separate switch to turn it off - it is just stick pull through. In the Hornet there is a paddle switch on the stick that allows overriding the limiter by pulling it at stick position close to full aft.

Don't really see why overriding the AOA limiter should be less permissable in the Su-27 - aren't we confusing it with disabling the FCS as such(direct control)?

My observation is that the limiter is too restrictive and it holds the aicraft way too far from it's real capabilities. In my opinion this might have something to do with the constant 22 deg AoA limit...

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Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump
I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

In the Su-27SK manual also there are a explicit reference about "Turning Off the limiter during acrobatic maneuvers doesnt give any apreciable gain in maneuvrability and is possible to make the plane stall or exceed the load limits"

Having a huge margin would disagree with this statement from the manual.

There are an AoA-G limit the pilot can bypass with brute force on the stick ( 17 Kg ). Turning off the limiter is not increasing the maneuvrability of the Su-27 in an appreciable marging and is making the flight more easy to enter a stall or spin or overstreesing the airframe. That all.

You can bypass the limit for extra AoA or G in some circunstances just pushing or pulling more on the stick, knowing the danger you are taking, but the benefits are marginal and the danger, big.

Also there is a big difference between the limiter logic in the former Su-27. and the newer Su-35 ( also i think the Su-27SM series). In the original versions the logic was some sort of a fixed value for a fixed weight, but in newer Su-27/Su-35 versions this limiter logic is much more "inteligent" and dynamic taking in count more parameters for beeing more precise at different weights, speeds, maneuvers, etc.