My experience is only limited to Random BG's, but I believe we are in a much better spot for randoms.

Vanguards seems to think we will be a little down compared to Cata Arena, but even he says it's to early to tell.

As for the "pocket healer" comment, Ret for a long time has been the utility/wildcard in Arena.

Overall my experience with Ret in Random BG's is favorable. You will still get trained by an experienced opposition, but one on one with most classes can still have a favorable out come. But, I have been on both ends of the getting torn apart by a Ret Paladin.

Raid Leading - it's the next best thing to playing every class and spec, you just can't push the buttons or move the mouse. That's why they die.

I gotta admit that I've got the same experience aswell, I find myself spamming WoG to outdo the damage I take, while hitting like a girl, it's a huge contrast to my mage, where I can pull off 100k+ damage within seconds.

I guess our biggest issue is the weapon damage atm, TV doing a % of your weapon damage is currently a disadvantage, weapon damage scales alot more in MoP, and might "fix" the small hits.

For PVP I've found the pallies strengths are more about staying power than straight out damage. If I play smart I can beat most players one on one. If I wade in expecting to drop em inside 5-10 seconds then it becomes much more likely I'll fail.

I'm actually finding pally VERY enjoyable at the moment. PVP seems fairly solid once you get into the "survive and conquer" mindset and tanking is like playing a rogue (put Holy Wrath and consec on a castsequence macro. Have cs/hammer, judge and throw shield on easy to reach buttons. Throw righteous shield in whenever you have 3+ HP but don't need the self heal and watch your bastion stack, blow WoG on a good heal once bastion reaches 5 stack if it's not a nasty spikey damage fight. The RS hit isn't on GCD so can just be used as a HP dump whenever you have enough). Having more fun on my pally at the moment than I've had with it in years.

The full pvp set for pally is some of the best looking armour in wow too which is just a nice plus

if a warlock and a mage and Spriest hitting over 100k @lvl 85 !! how much would they hit @ lvl 90 ????? for all who say that Ret paladin are fine in PVP with this Tv damage other Classes hitting 70 % more Dmg then You , Templar Verdict : A powerful weapon strike that consumes 3 charges of Holy Power <---- im sure this is a sarcasm and blizzard should change the definition of this Ability

if a warlock and a mage and Spriest hitting over 100k @lvl 85 !! how much would they hit @ lvl 90 ????? for all who say that Ret paladin are fine in PVP with this Tv damage other Classes hitting 70 % more Dmg then You , Templar Verdict : A powerful weapon strike that consumes 3 charges of Holy Power <---- im sure this is a sarcasm and blizzard should change the definition of this Ability

I agree. I'm just twitching at the fact that I'm investing precious HP into something that hits as hard as Crusader Strike..

wanted to edit something : ES last burst is about 47 to 50 k on dummy but on good geared class what will be the dmg ?? for sure its Low

warlocks also have a shield. It only absorbs holy and shaodow damage. I dont know why they included holy damage in there its not like locks are having a hard time with rets. Fear a ret and you gain 70 yards distance :/