DHMP (DOOM High-res Model Project)

What is the DHMP?
The DHMP is a DOOM community effort to recreate the original DOOM,DOOM2, and Final DOOM sprites as 3D models, to be used by DOOM engines that support it.
This is while keeping the same style and feeling of the originals(highly important) that may also have inspiration from the concept sketches and models the id create when making DOOM.

The aim is to create high resolution 3d models so things like normal maps, ambient occlusion and diffuse maps can be applied to lower resolution models.

Comments

You know, I can't believe the super shotgun model still has no hand. Dani, didn't you make this model? Was it made right after you suddenly stopped creating models in order to code? It really is a shame the hand was never added. It seems like the model pack hasn't changed at all in the last 5 years since Dani gave up creating models, which is a huge shame. The Duke3d community has near-flawless models for everything; meanwhile, us Doomers are stuck with some 10-year old models like the zombies and cyberdemon. I really thought this old game would get more graphic designers to step up to the plate! Why does Duke3d get more attention? Hehe.

bigger community and less source ports to play around with as with doom there is like around 12-20 and only about 5 can have 3d. so i do see a problem with this but one that will correct it self in the near future i hope.

There are two main problems with Doom and modelling. One is the lack of modern shader effects. No modeller wants to work for a long time on a model, only to have it look like it was constructed 8 years ago. We had exactly the same problem with the Duke HRP. As time and tech progressed, and the renderer didn't, all our top modellers drifted away and progress ground to a comparative stand-still. It's only with the debut of the Polymer renderer that things have started to change. I've made all my Doom models as Next-Gen for learning and for texturing reasons. Seeing a model in all it's normal-mapped glory and then baked down to its flat diffuse-only version still hurts.

The other reason is the MD2 format. It has it's flaws and it has it's 'jelly' effect, which makes multiple-part models a real pain to try and assemble. The main problem with MD2 is that nothing else uses it any more. Finding tools to work with it is becoming harder and harder. I've got to use a version of Blender that is about ELEVEN versions behind the latest incarnation. The modern Blender has fixed normal maps and improved rigging tools which make it a joy to make models with. With every improvement, going back to 2.49b to make Doom models is more and more of a pain. I don't think you can even get exporters for Max, which is what most game modellers use.

There's still one exporter for 3dsmax that still works and has worked since version 4. Then there's also Noesis, which is a model viewer that can also export models. It has a pretty wide range of model formats it can import and not so wide range of model formats it can export, but one of them is MD2.

us Doomers are stuck with some 10-year old models like the zombies and cyberdemon. I really thought this old game would get more graphic designers to step up to the plate! Why does Duke3d get more attention? Hehe.

Well, this is the best pack so far: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=439 called 'jdrp101+11a+fixes.pk3'. I also took this pack and put Tea Monster's caco and pinky models in the place of the ones in this pack and created a custom pack by doing so. Why do most people seem to not pay enough attention to Kingennio's pack as if they forgot about it?

That's the pack I'm already using, Gary. All of my comments are in regards to the latest models. The double barreled shotgun in that pack had no hand, like I said, and some of the models look outdated compared to Dani's work before he went to coding.

Tea Monster, you have created some spectacular models, but I always wonder why people seem to remake models that are already good looking! The Demon and Cacodemon were my two favorite models in the old JDRP, which are the ones you remade. Now we have 4 great looking models, which makes it hard to choose which ones to use. I think there are other models that desperately need attention! The pistol zombie is by far the worst. The faces aren't too bad, but the rest of the model looks like a cartoon, and the animations are terrible. Next on my list would be the Cyberdmon. The current model doesn't do justice for one for one of the greatest bosses in gaming history. Then I'd say the Arch-vile and Mancubus could use a revamp.

I don't understand why people seem to be remaking the same models all the time. I've seen 2 versions of the Hell Knight/Baron over the years, and another one in progress on this forum. I don't see why that is necessary, when the current Hell Knight/Baron actually looks pretty good already, at least compared to the other models I mentioned. People are free to remake whatever they want, of course; I can only make suggestions.

I think the Arch Vile looks the worst. Get close up to it and you will see how bad it looks. The faces on the pistol and shotgun zombie actually look well done. When these models are remade, I hope they aren't cartoony and are instead more realistic. We have too much cartooniness in many games as it is these days. I don't like cell shading.

Hey KuriKai. Yes, I've tried those models. The zombies were your first models, right? They are great for a first effort, but I think the zombies contained in the JDRP are a bit better. I know it's very, very hard to create good looking human models. I wouldn't even attempt to do it, myself! I am looking forward to your future models. Although I really like the current Baron in the JDRP, your work in progress on the new Baron looks pretty good.

I would love to use Tea Monster's Demon model instead of the one in the JDRP, but it's just too high-poly for my old computer. The fps drops with more than 2 demons on the screen. With 5 or more (like in doom2 map 08), it's a slide show. Tea Monster, did you make a low-poly version at all?

The Next Gen one is about 6K pollys. That one for Doomsday is 4 something. What kind of computer have you got? I've got a Quad-core AMD and a 9800 GeForce. It's no longer a speed demon and I can have about 14 of them on screen at one time and there is no slow-down at all. I've talked to a few guys with dual cores and they have the same story.

Nowadays, for 'modern' PC games, they are aiming at between 12 and 18 K per model for main characters. I know that 'modern' games don't have shed-loads of critters coming at you from all directions like 'non-modern' Doom does. but that should still leave us in the 2-6 k range realistically.

I always approach a model on the basis of "What would it look like if Id had this tech back in 1993?" I try to apply more realistic anatomy and more sophisticated technical design to a model, while keeping to the original spirit of the sprite. I always try to use as modern techniques as possible, even if it's going into a non-modern engine. This is mainly for my portfolio, but also a hedge for when (if?) the renderer improves.

The Next Gen one is about 6K pollys. That one for Doomsday is 4 something. What kind of computer have you got? I've got a Quad-core AMD and a 9800 GeForce. It's no longer a speed demon and I can have about 14 of them on screen at one time and there is no slow-down at all. I've talked to a few guys with dual cores and they have the same story

This system runs Doom just fine with all the other resources. Only your Demon lags the game. It must be much higher-poly than the rest of the models in the JDRP. The old Demon didn't lag at all. I understand that you want to make a high-poly version for your portfolio, but it sure would be nice to have a much lower-poly version for people like me. I just don't have money to dump on a $1,000 computer right now.

Personally, I feel that models can be great without lots of polys. In fact, I'd argue that the model skin and animations make up 90% of the quality. You can have relatively few polys, yet have a very successful model as long as it does well in those two other departments. In fact, usually I don't like high-poly models, because they are overly complex and the skin doesn't fit right on them. Heck, just look at what the "Quake Reforged" team did with re-skins of the original Quake MDL models:http://quakeone.com/reforged/bestiary.html (click on the old monsters to display the new skins)

I think the Quake models still work with new skins, because they had such great animations. As long as the model shape and form isn't absolute rubbish, it really can be pulled off. I'd say that in games like Unreal Tournament and Quake3, I like very few high-poly models. The more simply designed models in which the author spent more time on the animations and skins usually win me over!

The Next Gen one is about 6K pollys. That one for Doomsday is 4 something. What kind of computer have you got? I've got a Quad-core AMD and a 9800 GeForce. It's no longer a speed demon and I can have about 14 of them on screen at one time and there is no slow-down at all. I've talked to a few guys with dual cores and they have the same story.

Well, If I have between 5 and 10 pinky models on the screen, there is a little slowdown despite my Phenom II x4 965 3.4 GHz. So I am thinking it is a problem with Doomsday's out of fate renderer, as Dani has said exists; not my great system, which has a processor that I think functions better on single threaded programs than a 6 core would since mine is 3.4GHz while many, if not all, 6-cored processors are below that per core, though maybe that isn't the only factor I should think about when it comes to running a single theaded program faster.

Nowadays, for 'modern' PC games, they are aiming at between 12 and 18 K per model for main characters. I know that 'modern' games don't have shed-loads of critters coming at you from all directions like 'non-modern' Doom does. but that should still leave us in the 2-6 k range realistically.

Yeah, one thing that bothers me with modern games is that the bodies also fade after death unless I use a special addon + you don't see death animations that you do with Classic Doom (no death animations whatsoever), as far as I know.

For some reason, it seems that the SCP effects improvements on games like Freespace and Doom, like particles and explosion effects, actually look better than Doom 3's explosions, if memory serves. Kind of like how the explosion and particle effects on Raiden II (Arcade birds-eye Shmup) looks better than Raiden III's particle and explosion effects, despite the latter having PS2 graphics. Why are more modern games lacking in particle effects but the 90's Arcade games, which I can use an emulator for, have nice effects like flames, smoke, etc, which often don't exist in more modern games? Is it because making it 3D makes it too hard?

Lighting Hunter - I disagree about those skins. I think the artwork is great, but there are just not enough polys there to to break the quake 'origami' look, let alone support the shapes indicated by the skins. That's just MHO.

...look at what the "Quake Reforged" team did with re-skins of the original Quake MDL models

The only reason these look decent is the use of per-pixel lighting and normal, specular, etc... maps. Take away the the per-pixel lighting and they are essentially the original models but with high resolution skins.

Modellers are now so used to normal mapping and the tools becoming more and more adept at absorbing it into the work flow, that asking one to produce a high quality model without that, will be met with rather puzzled looks. The skill set needed for high quality but low-poly, diffuse-only modelling is a dying art form.

I'm not saying that a few more polys in the Quake models wouldn't make them look better. It's quite obvious they would be better with more detail in the models. I'm just saying that a good skin and set of animations can go a long way in making a low-poly model look great. I think those Quake models with reforged skins look better than any current 3d model in the JDRP. I also have yet to see a user-made 3d model for Quake that I like better than the default models, because all the user-made models I've seen have funky animations and skins. The default Quake models just have such great animations.

All I'm saying is that I think people spend too much time on the model itself adding thousands of polys, then spend very little time on the skin and animations. That's a shame, especially when good animations and a detailed skin won't lag the game like a high-poly model would. I think low-poly count is especially important in a game like Doom, where you sometimes fight hordes of monsters.

Don't get me wrong, Tea Monster. Your models are spectacular, and I like the animations & skins in them. I'm just sad that I'll have to wait until I have money to buy a new computer before I can enjoy them... This is especially true if you create a better Zombie, Cyberdemon, Arch-vile, Manucubus, etc... Just keep people like me who have slower computers in mind for future releases, please?

...look at what the "Quake Reforged" team did with re-skins of the original Quake MDL models

The only reason these look decent is the use of per-pixel lighting and normal, specular, etc... maps. Take away the the per-pixel lighting and they are essentially the original models but with high resolution skins.

Not bad for low-poly models without per-pixel lighting, eh? I would be more than happy if someone made models like this for Doom! Heck, all of the models you have released run flawlessly in Doom, Dani. Your version of the Cacodemon, for example, is a perfect balance between poly-count, skin detail, and great animations. My game does not lag at all with that model. I think Tea Monster's Demon model quite obviously has many more polys than the other models, however.

Some of them have been baked well yes, however I stand by what I said about them only looking decent with per-pixel lighting and their various non-diffuse maps.

I don't even like per-pixel lighting. Maybe I'm just too oldschool to enjoy it. You are entitled to your opinion on how the models look, but I still believe they look better than most of the JDRP models, even with far less polys. I'm only saying that models CAN look good without thousands of polys. That's all. No need for me to state more on this matter.

Actually thats not my model at all, I'm not even entirely sure of its origin. I think it was Team SOG's, later modified by Cheb and later again by myself.

Ah, I just remembered that you had some part in it. If I remember, your updates made it look much better. But anyway, the Cacodemon, whoever made it, is the perfect example of how the models should be, IMO. It's not loaded with thousands of polys, but it looks true to the original with the great skin and animations. The only thing that perhaps could have been better is the death animation.

Even nicer when Doomsday supports the normal mapped version. Better yet when all the monster models are upgraded to be at least up to par with the new Pinky and Caco. I'm assuming the focus now is just on improving the engine, then it will shift to making better models and textures, perhaps?

Of course Doom 3's monster models had no death animation or damage stages and they disappeared while on the ground. Imagine if it was as detailed, if not more detailed than Doom 3's monsters but had the effects and death animations, etc, as Doomsday's models, organs and all. Doom 3 doesn't have monsters die the same way as classic Doom. Seems that in some ways, certain games that are newer lack effects that certain older games had. I wonder why.

I have played older games with better explosions than Doom 3, for example, these games had paticles, smoke, etc. Doom 3 doesn't have good effects; just realistic graphics. Play the old arcade shmup Raiden II on an emulator if you want to see what I mean. It had flames, explosion craters, particles flying everythere, and more. Also play PS1 and PS2 Megaman games to see what I mean.

I don't know, I kind of thought the Doom 3 effects were nice!
I think they just tried to make it look a little more realistic is the thing. If a fireball of some sort was thrown, do you suppose there actually would be a huge amount of smoke, or more likely that there would be distortion from the heat in the air more? You know what I mean?

Also, it seems the most evident reason for the Doom 3 monsters to die like they do is that you couldn't have that many models of that detail (for standard computers of that time), all lying around at the same time in a scene. Besides that, there is only so detailed of a death sequence you can give at any given time. Doom 3's death incineration thing was somewhat of a cheap trick compared to the rest of the effects, and it probably would've been tough to animate realistic gore.

However, that sounds interesting. Imagine having parts of the body with jiggle bones or something similar to that, like a couple of flaps of skin and some organs, some of them separated, but all of them with some weight to them. That would take a little more calculation, though, and would probably be best utilized through HAVOK or PhysX with an extra GPU, but due to the unpopularity of such things, it's not likely that something like that will show up...

Let's see what happens in Doom 4. Also if you get a high end modern day cpu and gpu, and if the game is written to take full advantage of the hardware, I'm confident it can be done with decent performance. Even my Phenom II x4 965 black edition cpu http://hothardware.com/Reviews/AMD-Phen ... PU-Review/ and Radeon HD 6870 gpu http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/ ... iew.aspx#2 with 4GB of 1333MHz system RAM could probably do it if the software was written to use them to their full potential, and we know Doomsday is not even close to being able to use my hardware like that and I bet Doom 3 is no problem for my hardware.

I did use a mod in Doom 3 that prevented bodies from disappearing for about 5 minutes, and at maximum settings, the performance was decent, and that was before I got my current hardware. I could even assume my hardware is more powerful than a PS3, though I do not have the best hardware available.