Dr. Brown Debates an Orthodox Rabbi

Why would a professing Christian deny Jesus and become an Orthodox Jewish rabbi? Find out when Dr. Brown dialogues with an Orthodox rabbi who says he once believed in Jesus as Messiah.

Hour 1:

Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: God has called us as Jewish people to be a light to the world and to bring to the world the knowledge of God. Through whom has that come? Who has been the most influential Jew and Rabbi who has ever lived, and brought hundreds of millions of Gentiles to the knowledge of the God of Israel? There is only one candidate. Our Messiah and King, Jesus, Yeshua.

Hour 2:

Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: Oh yes, the work of the Messiah is spreading throughout the entire world, more and more people are coming to the God of Israel through Jesus, Yeshua, the Messiah of Israel, and more and more Jewish eyes are being opened. It’s time my Jewish friends to look up. Redemption is growing near and in fact your Redeemer has already come!

What I find interesting is how the vocabulary of the NT Scripture is making it’s way into the Orthodox vocabulary. Such as “spirit filled” and “The way the truth and the life.”

When he said Jesus was coming back and will be accepted into the Jewish nation again–I don’t understand what he meant by that. Does he mean Jesus will be resurrected as all Jews or He’s coming back to “set the record straight?”

He was a very pleasant and respectful person to listen to–but I will be praying for him!!

as for NT being unriable look at the OT. The hebrew scriptures were being written an rewritten countless times to reach there (almost) perfect form. Scholars say the torah is a combination of 4 sources (elohist,yahwah,priest,and Deuteronomist). Isreal was split into 2 nations for their majority of history house of israel up north and judah south which both have different views of God.

Are you not going to fix the following broadcast page for comments–I was looking forward to talking to Jabez and others about that show. It’s very important to get Mr. Juster’s message out there. It’s this one:

Our blood covenant is in Yesua Messiah; the rabbis no longer have one as a “daily sacrifice”; but some see the Holocaust as the sacrifice for returning to Israel.
Should we support Isreal in the rebuilding of the Third Temple? My short answer is ‘yes’; however, we must be extremely careful in our covenants with others in doing this. This also has a lot to do with who becomes our next president, not going into all the details.
The Third Temple will be built before Messiah returns, and He will be part of the return of animal sacrifices as the Prince in the Millennium; that’s my take on it from latter Ezekiel. The proper preparation of meat will again extend lifetimes, but not be a ‘requirement’ of salvation, as Immanuel will be with us.
I do not believe in present ‘dual covenant theology’, as blood is necessary for atonement.

This is what makes their deliberate sacrifice of the firstborn to Molech (Baal) all the more sinister in direct disobedience to GOD, and why the U.S. is in such big trouble for sacrificing over 50 million babies to Satan in under 40 years; more than eight times the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust! We are in deep trouble.
The blood of Jesus, Yeshua Messiah, is pure enough to drink; no other in creation. This is something the Jews as a nation have not understood. If you understand the spiritual significance of Rev. 6:6, you see where we are at.

Hello,I am only an unregenerate Gentile who has some familiarity with Holy Scripture ; I am also familiar with some matters (and wineskins) that (intentionally or more likely,unintentionally) serve to disempower and desalinate (and leave unprepared) the British and American contingent of the Bride. That said,i have a comment on Michael’s interview with Moshe.

Moshe is described online as an ‘ex-Pentecostal minister’,so I think it is a real shame that the interview was steered towards a debate over manuscripts,rather than Moshe’s background – more specifically,towards a discussion of baptism in the Holy Spirit (note Galatians 3 : 2 – a question I would have liked Michael to have asked Moshe,indeed to have built the entire interview upon).

In the absence of information as to whether or not Moshe was baptised in the Holy Spirit as in Acts 2:4,I think Moshe’s situation is likely to be a common one in Britain and America : he may well NOT have been brought to the Lord properly ; not put through the elementary teachings ; not put through his paces so to speak – repentance FROM sin,faith INTO Jesus,immersion in both water and the Holy Spirit. He may have been put through a ‘sinner’s prayer’,told he was ‘born again’,and then left in a seriously deficient state. Perhaps he was baptised in the Holy Spirit,I hope Michael asks Moshe next time,or even before.

Therefore,and as a probable result of substandard (but well-meaning) Second Covenant workmanship (and if my assessment of the interview is correct) Moshe does not believe INTO Jesus (Greek ‘eis’ ,Strong’s number 1519 ) but thinks he can bypass the one (and only) Mediator between God and Moshe – the man Christ Jesus (1 Timothy 2:5-6). That’s a big deal,remember John 8:24 . If proper help had been given to Moshe in the PAST,there may have been no need to argue over manuscripts TODAY. Sow poor evangelism and discipleship,reap this kind of problem.

If Moshe would read ‘Why Does God Allow Natural Disasters’ by David Pawson he might begin to get the kind of help he needs (in paperback or ebook). David’s DVD, ‘Lessons of the Holocaust for Jews and Christians’ may also be helpful.

I hope Moshe comes to know that Jesus is the Messiah and believes INTO Him (and REMAINS in Him),gets immersed in the Holy Spirit as in Acts 2:4 (if that did not take place sometime in the past),and finishes up in the new Jerusalem with the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb.

Ehrman and your guest both seem to believe that between the time of writing and the earliest extant manuscripts that significant corruption took place in the NT. What they desire is some objective standard by which to judge the degree of alleged corruption.

In the book “The Book of Acts in the Setting of Hellenistic History”, Colin Hemer provided just such a standard. In a very careful work, he shows about 100 details relevant to the book of acts; details that can be verified, which would not likely be known except to one who had first hand experience of Paul’s travels. So if minute verifiable details are preserved in Acts, then is it not reasonable to assume that the miraculous details are also recorded without corruption? And since Acts is written by the same author who wrote the Gospel of Luke, and since both books were in the hands of Theophilus and then copied (presumably together), is it not reasonable to believe that if the book of Acts was accurately transmitted, that the Gospel of Luke was also accurately transmitted.

Lastly of course, is the testimony of the church Fathers, some of whom new the apostles (e.g. Polycarp), quoted extensively from the NT, taught the same message as the NT and died for their beliefs.

It seems all of this needs be explained before one can make the claims of corruption of the NT documents.

If Moshe was not baptised in the Holy Spirit,in the manner of Acts 2:4 ; and if he did not have a conscious relationship with the Holy Spirit thereafter,then he was not brought to the Lord properly,or fully – and that lack of baptism in the Holy Spirit,would seem a strange position for an Assemblies of God elder to be in.

If,on the other hand,he was,and did – then,as Chinese underground disciples would say,Moshe would have to deny his own (conscious)experience.

I havn’t listen to the debate yet (this I am going to do now), but there are two I would say useful books about NT, and four gospels in particular. One I have read already, and the other I am reading right now:
— Heresy of Orthodoxy: How Contemporary Culture’s Fascination with Diversity Has Reshaped Our Understanding of Early Christianity (www.amazon.com/Heresy-Orthodoxy-Contemporary-Understanding-Christianity/dp/1433501430/ )
— Who Chose the Gospels?: Probing the Great Gospel Conspiracy ( http://www.amazon.com/Who-Chose-Gospels-Probing-Conspiracy/dp/0199551235 )

In my mind, they make case for reliability of NT. (you can even find my review of the first one on amazon 😉 )

after listening to this exchange, I can say that the rabbi seems as nice person and not arrogant or anything.
Still, situation seems very sad.
Here’s the situation. Basically, Jesus Christ – the one and only sacrifice for sins to whom all Hebrew sacrifices were a type, is set aside in favor of some other mean of attaining salvation.
Sure, given fact of progressive revelation, some fraction of human societies could be treated accordingly to the light they have received, especially before coming of Christ. But now, after the whole and complete work of human salvation, to disregard God’s perfect provision is … I would say very dangerous decision.

Books could be written on the following passages, and probably are… (especially on so-called “unforgivable sins” in Hebrews), but whatever the case, in light of best exegesis and such, it seems at least on the basic level, as very dangerous move to slide from Christianity into Judaism hoping for so-called “win-win situation”.
Of course, I hope for God’s mercy and extend of salvation to all people and all tribes and nations, and to those like Ehrman, or Loftus, and all sorts of ministers and academics who left Christianity, but this issue is a fire to play with.

So here are the three passages I thought helpful. (Of course they of little value to the rabbi in question as he seems to side with Ehrman on ‘diverse Christian’ writings of the first centuries of Christianity).

Galatians 3
You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now [e]being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.
For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM.” Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.” However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE”— in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is only a man’s covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it. Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ. What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise. For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.
Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made. Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one. Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law. But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.

Hebrews 6:4-8
For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.

Hebrews 10
For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near. Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins? But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year. For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says,
“SACRIFICE AND OFFERING YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED,
BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME;
IN WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE TAKEN NO PLEASURE.
“THEN I SAID, ‘BEHOLD, I HAVE COME
(IN THE SCROLL OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME)
TO DO YOUR WILL, O GOD.’”
After saying above, “SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS AND WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED, NOR HAVE YOU TAKEN PLEASURE in them” (which are offered according to the Law), then He said, “BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second. By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET. For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying,

“THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM
AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD:
I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART,
AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM,”

He then says,

“AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS
I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE.”

Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.
A New and Living Way
Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.
Christ or Judgment
For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY.” And again, “THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE.”It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
But remember the former days, when, after being enlightened, you endured a great conflict of sufferings, partly by being made a public spectacle through reproaches and tribulations, and partly by becoming sharers with those who were so treated. For you showed sympathy to the prisoners and accepted joyfully the seizure of your property, knowing that you have for yourselves a better possession and a lasting one. Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.
FOR YET IN A VERY LITTLE WHILE,
HE WHO IS COMING WILL COME, AND WILL NOT DELAY.
38 BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH;
AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM.
But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

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I am just saying, it is hard to get into “win-win situation” by setting aside Christ priesthood and sacrifice.
Basically, there is little ground left by Christ. Either His divinity is true or false. In standard understanding on Judaism (if I’m not mistaken) Christ is not divine. If He is not divine, one’s sins are covered by something else. How is this possible to have head knowledge of Christ and His teachings, and then set it aside and face God on final judgment? What will be the excuse for not accepting God’s sacrifice? Will one face God and say “here, I provided a better sacrifice for my sins!”. This is silly and even offensive.
But again, God is merciful and His ways are way better then ours, and as I said, He is the Rightful Judge, not me. I leave it to Him.