a friend runs a ems company, having 5 mydata lines and my500. But even he came across same observation as I did. Thing here is, I understand that the pnp maybe really is a good solution, Sparkfun got one recently, but to me, I want to see the full picture, other machines are maybe better here or there and by not providing you a demo they draw them away from the table. The other companies do demo their solutions to you.

I had a quick look at TWS - the most homemade looking solution I have ever seen ;) But DIMA could be a catch, they have same offering, go to their demo center and bring your board/parts...

it tell on it website that i build it in house for fit it need and trun into commercial stuff

but of all of smaller home mame machine it one that look more good and not build whit 80/20 structural aluminium :mrgreen:

some of older mechatronica look funny to ;-) but newer look goodwas curious it it make it or it rebrand it , torch in china have similar model bit like manncorp that just rebrand many china model (torch , mdc ,dima etc )

Interesting thread. I was in a similar position to some extent. I wanted to avoid outsourcing boards as I was interested in getting some new 'toys' ;-) The volumes were low enough I could get away with it. Running a simple APS40LEV, manual screen printer (but decent quality) and a batch reflow oven. Now the gloss has worn off and I've been a little more successful than I first planned and all of the manual loading etc. gets to be a pain. A few interesting thoughts; If using panalised boards a manual screen printer can easily keep up with even a fast PnP machine, so leave the auto/semi auto screen printer until later if you can. The problem I have is that for a decent sized panel it can take the PnP around 20 minutes to complete - it only took me about a minute to load & print the paste. The batch oven can also easily out-pace my current PnP. If I get too far in front of the printer the paste can start to dry out a little so I tend to print maybe 10 panels, and then clean the printer off and leave the next batch for another day. The smaller 'non-production' machines are good, but even loading the boards becomes a chore, so I'm looking at upgrading the PnP next year (space is a problem so that is being addressed first). There's no way I could justify a new fast PnP machine so I've been looking around for used ones. The 2nd hand market for this type of gear in Australia is pretty much non-existent so I'll be most likely importing a used machine. At the moment I'm considering either Mydata or Europlacer machines. Mydata has better representation in Aust. and the option is also available to buy an older model unit from the local Mydata rep. The specs for the different machines are not very different so it's a hard choice (there's currently no Europlacer gear in Oz which makes it more of an unknown). AOI would be nice but the current commercial units are quite expensive and so far I've gotten away with a home-rolled version (can handle missing components and a few other things but not much more at this point). If I'd know that it would work out, I'd have considered getting a used faster PnP to start with rather than a new slow one - 20/20 hindsight ;-)

Neoden tech Co.,Ltd. is a factory who is specializing in the manufacture and export of desktop automatic PICK AND PLACE MACHINE (SMT MACHINE) for more than four years. They are the leaders in this technology in China and have got a good reputation in this field .Their machines are famous for stable running ,high precision & speed ,light-weight and easy operation ,which also help win high praises from clients .

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M10V looks good, but why did they put the camera on the wrong side?If you need to use bottom vision (no flying cam), then the camera should be next to the tape feeders as these will be used the most. Maybe the feeder sides can be swapped?Anyone have prices?

TM4120V(NeoDen4-with internal rails)with cameras, the brand new and long awaited model of NeoDen, is a desktop Pick and Place machine with vision system. As a professional PnP machine designer and developer, NeoDen has been doing research in SMT industry from 2010.

NeoDen4 is with dual cameras, auto rails, auto electronic feeders and 4 placement heads, which could help to handle 0201,BGA, QFN and 0.8m/1.2m/1.5m LED strip. NeoDen4 is the best choice to satisfy all demands of high precision, high capacity, stable performance and low cost. This is a huge breakthrough not only for NeoDen,but also for small and medium-sized enterprises, those who want to improve placement accuracy and speed up PCB assembly with a limited budget.