News

THE jailing of a Radcliffe man who wore an offensive T-shirt in the wake of the fatal shooting of two police officers has been branded an “attack on free expression” by a North West Euro MP.

Liberal Democrat Chris Davies was speaking after the conviction of Barry Thew, likening it to the plight of a jailed Russian rock band.

Thew, of Wolsey Street, was handed a four-month sentence for wearing a T-shirt in Radcliffe town centre which carried the slogans “One less Pig, Perfect Justice” and “killacopforfun.com haha”, hours after Greater Manchester police officers Fiona Bone and Nicola Hughes were killed in a gun and grenade attack.

Thew, aged 39, pleaded guilty at Minshull Street Court in Manchester to a public order offence and was also handed a further four months in prison for breaching a suspended sentence.

Mr Davies described Thew’s arrest and jailing as an “attack on free expression that weakened Britain’s moral authority in the world”.

The Euro MP compared the case to that of the Russian female rock band Pussy Riot, after three of its members were jailed for two years in February for staging protests against the country’s leader Vladimir Putin.

He said: “How do we condemn Russia for imprisoning members of the Pussy Riot group for offensive acts if we do the same here?

“If someone was to wear a T-shirt claiming that “Jimmy Saville was a nice man” what is to stop them being arrested, too?

“If we are to protect freedom in this country, then we have to accept that even offensive idiots have the right to express their views.

“The fact that many people may be upset by them is not a sufficient justification.”

Comments (36)

Well done Chris Davies.
Free speech is the rock on which our society was built and has deteriorated beyond all recognition over the past 15 years.
I may think Barry Thew is a complete idiot,as may many others,but because the authorities don't agree should he be imprisoned?.
Many racists have been driven underground by this same policy,I would rather see these people ridiculed and treated with the contempt I think they deserve.

Well done Chris Davies.
Free speech is the rock on which our society was built and has deteriorated beyond all recognition over the past 15 years.
I may think Barry Thew is a complete idiot,as may many others,but because the authorities don't agree should he be imprisoned?.
Many racists have been driven underground by this same policy,I would rather see these people ridiculed and treated with the contempt I think they deserve.steveG

So its fine to walk round with a tee shirt on advocating murder and this is not classed as grossly offensive. Free speech is fine when it says something that is legal. For the information of Chris Davies, Murder is still illegal.

So its fine to walk round with a tee shirt on advocating murder and this is not classed as grossly offensive. Free speech is fine when it says something that is legal. For the information of Chris Davies, Murder is still illegal.Northernrover

In the last few days the Bolton News has reported on a policeman inflicting 'excruciating pain' and ' excessive force on a young person incapable of defending himself' - for which he received a suspended sentence. In the same week they reported on Threw being thrown into prison for wearing a T-shirt and the young man from Chorley being sentenced to 12 weeks in prison for a facebook post. These people are stupid, naive and offensive - but not in the same league as police officers who beat people up. Defend free speech and punish people fairly. Well said Mr Davies.

In the last few days the Bolton News has reported on a policeman inflicting 'excruciating pain' and ' excessive force on a young person incapable of defending himself' - for which he received a suspended sentence. In the same week they reported on Threw being thrown into prison for wearing a T-shirt and the young man from Chorley being sentenced to 12 weeks in prison for a facebook post. These people are stupid, naive and offensive - but not in the same league as police officers who beat people up. Defend free speech and punish people fairly. Well said Mr Davies.PGtips67

What has this got to do with an MEP? This is the UK and this is British justice.
70% of the population want us out of the interfering EU and this illustrates why. Oh, and by the way Mr Davies, what stance did you take when demonstrators proclaimed "British soldiers go to hell etc etc"?

What has this got to do with an MEP? This is the UK and this is British justice.
70% of the population want us out of the interfering EU and this illustrates why. Oh, and by the way Mr Davies, what stance did you take when demonstrators proclaimed "British soldiers go to hell etc etc"?Bob Shaftoe

This has nothing to do with free speech it was a brazen and offensive reference to the murder of two young police officers who were doing the job that we pay them to do, that is protect us from the sort of low life that parade the streets with T shirts glorifying murder. Presumably Mr Davies and all the people posting in favour of his comments also support the Facebook pages that made the police murderer Moat out to be a saint and the policeman he blinded a sinner.

This has nothing to do with free speech it was a brazen and offensive reference to the murder of two young police officers who were doing the job that we pay them to do, that is protect us from the sort of low life that parade the streets with T shirts glorifying murder. Presumably Mr Davies and all the people posting in favour of his comments also support the Facebook pages that made the police murderer Moat out to be a saint and the policeman he blinded a sinner.PDY

I'm sure those who laid down their lives in defence of our freedom didn't even consider they were doing it for disgusting individuals who glory in other people's death and sufferering. With rights come responsibilities and it's time the likes of Thew realised this.

I'm sure those who laid down their lives in defence of our freedom didn't even consider they were doing it for disgusting individuals who glory in other people's death and sufferering. With rights come responsibilities and it's time the likes of Thew realised this.Rememberscarborough

Despite the offensive and downright awfulness which was on that T-shirt, I have to agree with Chris Davies on this one, the freedom to do what you want (within in the law) and say what you want, what makes this country good, freedom of speech and expression works in both ways you’ll like something which people do and say and sometimes you wont like what people say and do, it doesn’t matter because people can express how they feel how they want to, if you don’t like it don’t watch/listen to them or you can express your feelings to them, if they was to change the law they’d have to call it freedom of speech (as long as you’re going to say something nice) act 2012, do people realize that they are expressing their freedom of speech by posting on here

Despite the offensive and downright awfulness which was on that T-shirt, I have to agree with Chris Davies on this one, the freedom to do what you want (within in the law) and say what you want, what makes this country good, freedom of speech and expression works in both ways you’ll like something which people do and say and sometimes you wont like what people say and do, it doesn’t matter because people can express how they feel how they want to, if you don’t like it don’t watch/listen to them or you can express your feelings to them, if they was to change the law they’d have to call it freedom of speech (as long as you’re going to say something nice) act 2012, do people realize that they are expressing their freedom of speech by posting on here_A5HA11_

The weakness in this MEP's view is that free speech is only acceptable when it suits his own view. Presumably, any nazi-promoting racists are allowed free speech according to him? Or perhaps not. The key here is not just that this is a grossly offensive idiot, but the implication that it is good to kill, therefore this is clearly incitement and this conveys the comments into a different league altogether. Free speech or a civilised society in which people show respect for each other and the authorities put in place to protect them? I know which I would choose.
Presumably, Andrew Mitchell was excused when he ranted at the police in Downing Street?

The weakness in this MEP's view is that free speech is only acceptable when it suits his own view. Presumably, any nazi-promoting racists are allowed free speech according to him? Or perhaps not. The key here is not just that this is a grossly offensive idiot, but the implication that it is good to kill, therefore this is clearly incitement and this conveys the comments into a different league altogether. Free speech or a civilised society in which people show respect for each other and the authorities put in place to protect them? I know which I would choose.
Presumably, Andrew Mitchell was excused when he ranted at the police in Downing Street?Nat's lad

As a society, we should strive for decency and respect, then all matters relating to rights will fall into place naturally and without interference. We should not need to tolerate that yob's actions, no more than others whose aim it is to offend and cause distress. Society has lost its way when we have thugs like him walking the streets.

As a society, we should strive for decency and respect, then all matters relating to rights will fall into place naturally and without interference. We should not need to tolerate that yob's actions, no more than others whose aim it is to offend and cause distress. Society has lost its way when we have thugs like him walking the streets.exiled

He wasnt jailed for wearing a tshirt, it was a public order issue, which was a result of the low life thinking he can go around saying what you want regardless of the format or content, at somepoint he would have been assaulted, i for one would have punched his lights out.

Cannot belive A: the idiot MP(well actually i can because 99% of MPs are simply idoits) or B: the idiots who actually agree with him.

Do they agree with the facebook pages that were set up condoning the killings ?

How about a tshirt with the little girl from wales saying "one less welsh kid to worry about" ..... NO its simply not acceptable.

He should be sacked.

He wasnt jailed for wearing a tshirt, it was a public order issue, which was a result of the low life thinking he can go around saying what you want regardless of the format or content, at somepoint he would have been assaulted, i for one would have punched his lights out.
Cannot belive A: the idiot MP(well actually i can because 99% of MPs are simply idoits) or B: the idiots who actually agree with him.
Do they agree with the facebook pages that were set up condoning the killings ?
How about a tshirt with the little girl from wales saying "one less welsh kid to worry about" ..... NO its simply not acceptable.
He should be sacked.JustBecause

like all politicians striving for publicity of any kind...this attention seeking geek was rightly jailed and he lost his rights when he chose to disrespect the families of the deceased,its a fact that all the anti police brigade,have no alternatives to keeping law and order themselves.....to be left in there,little pond of ideas would be scary.....one moron less at least for a few month..has for the wannabee...mp get voting the death penalty and save us the money it takes to look after these cowards...

like all politicians striving for publicity of any kind...this attention seeking geek was rightly jailed and he lost his rights when he chose to disrespect the families of the deceased,its a fact that all the anti police brigade,have no alternatives to keeping law and order themselves.....to be left in there,little pond of ideas would be scary.....one moron less at least for a few month..has for the wannabee...mp get voting the death penalty and save us the money it takes to look after these cowards...taverner

If this is free speech then Abu Hamza was allowed to spew whatever vile poison he wished as well.

Whilst this is in a different league, i.e this is a low life scumbag with clearly no brains whatsoever, (as opposed to just a low life scumbag) the principle remains the same.

If this is free speech then Abu Hamza was allowed to spew whatever vile poison he wished as well.
Whilst this is in a different league, i.e this is a low life scumbag with clearly no brains whatsoever, (as opposed to just a low life scumbag) the principle remains the same.Flycatcher

Mmm gonna get slated on here again but in for a penny in for a pound, just wondering how many people were arrested & convicted for burning poppies & holding banners up saying things like, butchers of basra, baby killers, behead those who insult the prophet, behead those who insult islam, oh none, not surprised at our two tier judicial system in operation!
.
All these slogans are equally as abhorent as the police t-shirt one, and should have been dealt with in a similar way!

Mmm gonna get slated on here again but in for a penny in for a pound, just wondering how many people were arrested & convicted for burning poppies & holding banners up saying things like, butchers of basra, baby killers, behead those who insult the prophet, behead those who insult islam, oh none, not surprised at our two tier judicial system in operation!
.
All these slogans are equally as abhorent as the police t-shirt one, and should have been dealt with in a similar way!mustafa-moan

mustafa-moan wrote:
Mmm gonna get slated on here again but in for a penny in for a pound, just wondering how many people were arrested &amp; convicted for burning poppies &amp; holding banners up saying things like, butchers of basra, baby killers, behead those who insult the prophet, behead those who insult islam, oh none, not surprised at our two tier judicial system in operation!
.
All these slogans are equally as abhorent as the police t-shirt one, and should have been dealt with in a similar way!

MM you have just hit the nail on the head mate !!!

[quote][p][bold]mustafa-moan[/bold] wrote:
Mmm gonna get slated on here again but in for a penny in for a pound, just wondering how many people were arrested & convicted for burning poppies & holding banners up saying things like, butchers of basra, baby killers, behead those who insult the prophet, behead those who insult islam, oh none, not surprised at our two tier judicial system in operation!
.
All these slogans are equally as abhorent as the police t-shirt one, and should have been dealt with in a similar way![/p][/quote]MM you have just hit the nail on the head mate !!!swager123

In many ways, the discussion has been argued over for 150 years (and maybe even before that) as many have thrown each poistion at the other. Who decides what offence is? In the JS Mill variant, mere offence does not allow the state to interpose...but Mill himself used the corndealers example of 'Protection'. I suppose in this case, like nearly everyone, the wearer of the T-shirt had the right to express his views. However in the circumstances the state was entitled to prevent him enflaming a heated environment. Personally, I think he should have been taken to one side and "advised" that his offensive T-shirt should be removed, otherwise he would have a very unfortunate accident tripping down stairs when entering a police interrogation room! Where Chris Davies is 100% correct is that there is a prima facie assumption that Freedom of Speech (Expression) is an absolute. As many have said, what of protestors at Remembrance Day parades? What of the ultra-right with their anti-immigrant chants. Shoudl Nick Griffin have been allowed on Question Time. Many things upset, but in a pluralistic democracy surely we can encompass all (legal) views. 4 months jail for a t-shirt is completely outrageous - however imbecilic the wearer

In many ways, the discussion has been argued over for 150 years (and maybe even before that) as many have thrown each poistion at the other. Who decides what offence is? In the JS Mill variant, mere offence does not allow the state to interpose...but Mill himself used the corndealers example of 'Protection'. I suppose in this case, like nearly everyone, the wearer of the T-shirt had the right to express his views. However in the circumstances the state was entitled to prevent him enflaming a heated environment. Personally, I think he should have been taken to one side and "advised" that his offensive T-shirt should be removed, otherwise he would have a very unfortunate accident tripping down stairs when entering a police interrogation room! Where Chris Davies is 100% correct is that there is a prima facie assumption that Freedom of Speech (Expression) is an absolute. As many have said, what of protestors at Remembrance Day parades? What of the ultra-right with their anti-immigrant chants. Shoudl Nick Griffin have been allowed on Question Time. Many things upset, but in a pluralistic democracy surely we can encompass all (legal) views. 4 months jail for a t-shirt is completely outrageous - however imbecilic the wearerSmoggyDiasboro

mustafa-moan wrote:
Mmm gonna get slated on here again but in for a penny in for a pound, just wondering how many people were arrested &amp; convicted for burning poppies &amp; holding banners up saying things like, butchers of basra, baby killers, behead those who insult the prophet, behead those who insult islam, oh none, not surprised at our two tier judicial system in operation!
.
All these slogans are equally as abhorent as the police t-shirt one, and should have been dealt with in a similar way!

True - point is though, the police would find it difficult to arrest hundreds of people in a single attempt. Not easy with raging fanatics brething goodness knows what all over them!

[quote][p][bold]mustafa-moan[/bold] wrote:
Mmm gonna get slated on here again but in for a penny in for a pound, just wondering how many people were arrested & convicted for burning poppies & holding banners up saying things like, butchers of basra, baby killers, behead those who insult the prophet, behead those who insult islam, oh none, not surprised at our two tier judicial system in operation!
.
All these slogans are equally as abhorent as the police t-shirt one, and should have been dealt with in a similar way![/p][/quote]True - point is though, the police would find it difficult to arrest hundreds of people in a single attempt. Not easy with raging fanatics brething goodness knows what all over them!exiled

mustafa-moan wrote:
Mmm gonna get slated on here again but in for a penny in for a pound, just wondering how many people were arrested &amp; convicted for burning poppies &amp; holding banners up saying things like, butchers of basra, baby killers, behead those who insult the prophet, behead those who insult islam, oh none, not surprised at our two tier judicial system in operation!
.
All these slogans are equally as abhorent as the police t-shirt one, and should have been dealt with in a similar way!

True - point is though, the police would find it difficult to arrest hundreds of people in a single attempt. Not easy with raging fanatics brething goodness knows what all over them!

The police could have used modern tools like youtube postings to arrest banner holders & poppie burners retrospectively, they seem to use it when it suits! No excuse on the polices part, if it wasn't for anjem choudary and his henchmen in Luton that day, insulting the Royal Anglian soldiers the EDL would not exist, when the police turn a blind eye in cases like this, the people rise up and defend our once great nation!

[quote][p][bold]exiled[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]mustafa-moan[/bold] wrote:
Mmm gonna get slated on here again but in for a penny in for a pound, just wondering how many people were arrested & convicted for burning poppies & holding banners up saying things like, butchers of basra, baby killers, behead those who insult the prophet, behead those who insult islam, oh none, not surprised at our two tier judicial system in operation!
.
All these slogans are equally as abhorent as the police t-shirt one, and should have been dealt with in a similar way![/p][/quote]True - point is though, the police would find it difficult to arrest hundreds of people in a single attempt. Not easy with raging fanatics brething goodness knows what all over them![/p][/quote]The police could have used modern tools like youtube postings to arrest banner holders & poppie burners retrospectively, they seem to use it when it suits! No excuse on the polices part, if it wasn't for anjem choudary and his henchmen in Luton that day, insulting the Royal Anglian soldiers the EDL would not exist, when the police turn a blind eye in cases like this, the people rise up and defend our once great nation!mustafa-moan

Am i missing the point? These were two young women, somebodys children, partners and loved ones. I find Thews' words offensive and highly inappropriate. Put aside that they were Police officers no one should be subject to this kind of vile attack.

Am i missing the point? These were two young women, somebodys children, partners and loved ones. I find Thews' words offensive and highly inappropriate. Put aside that they were Police officers no one should be subject to this kind of vile attack.pjgarside

pjgarside wrote:
Am i missing the point? These were two young women, somebodys children, partners and loved ones. I find Thews' words offensive and highly inappropriate. Put aside that they were Police officers no one should be subject to this kind of vile attack.

[quote][p][bold]pjgarside[/bold] wrote:
Am i missing the point? These were two young women, somebodys children, partners and loved ones. I find Thews' words offensive and highly inappropriate. Put aside that they were Police officers no one should be subject to this kind of vile attack.[/p][/quote]Poppies being burnt on armictise day, and offensive banners displayed to the Royal Anglian soldiers, clearly upset our soldiers past & present, but was anyone arrested, NO!mustafa-moan

pjgarside wrote:
Am i missing the point? These were two young women, somebodys children, partners and loved ones. I find Thews' words offensive and highly inappropriate. Put aside that they were Police officers no one should be subject to this kind of vile attack.

they even stood next to the coppers holding up banners and STILL none of them got knicked!!!!

[quote][p][bold]mustafa-moan[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]pjgarside[/bold] wrote:
Am i missing the point? These were two young women, somebodys children, partners and loved ones. I find Thews' words offensive and highly inappropriate. Put aside that they were Police officers no one should be subject to this kind of vile attack.[/p][/quote]Poppies being burnt on armictise day, and offensive banners displayed to the Royal Anglian soldiers, clearly upset our soldiers past & present, but was anyone arrested, NO![/p][/quote]they even stood next to the coppers holding up banners and STILL none of them got knicked!!!!swager123

Anyone who walks around wearing tee-shirts advertising the various clothing labels sold by the various shops in Bolton should be arrested for supporting child labour and if found to own more than one item of clothing where child labour has been involved should be jailed...if the law is applied equally based on the arrest and subsequent jailing of this, admittedly stupid, he should keep his police hating opinions to himself, man this is what should happen to all those who support child labour!!!!

Anyone who walks around wearing tee-shirts advertising the various clothing labels sold by the various shops in Bolton should be arrested for supporting child labour and if found to own more than one item of clothing where child labour has been involved should be jailed...if the law is applied equally based on the arrest and subsequent jailing of this, admittedly stupid, he should keep his police hating opinions to himself, man this is what should happen to all those who support child labour!!!!Comment777

There are lot of offensive t`shirts out there where is it going to stop ? But prison for 4 months what happened to a good old fashioned fine or community service ? the prisons are already full is this why ?
I was as disgusted as the next person by the immature shock tactic of the t shirt. But when are we going to start effigy burning and completely over reacting like other countries do ?

There are lot of offensive t`shirts out there where is it going to stop ? But prison for 4 months what happened to a good old fashioned fine or community service ? the prisons are already full is this why ?
I was as disgusted as the next person by the immature shock tactic of the t shirt. But when are we going to start effigy burning and completely over reacting like other countries do ?Lancashire always

The T shirt was deliberately printed and meant to upset anyone who saw it, it could have turned out nasty for him if a few 'heavies' had objected, he's safer where he is, inside, reflecting on his lost 'Freedom', not just freedom of speech.
Community service and fines are just a joke, the 'perps' don't pay fines and they avoid work in as many ways as they can think up.

The T shirt was deliberately printed and meant to upset anyone who saw it, it could have turned out nasty for him if a few 'heavies' had objected, he's safer where he is, inside, reflecting on his lost 'Freedom', not just freedom of speech.
Community service and fines are just a joke, the 'perps' don't pay fines and they avoid work in as many ways as they can think up.kamikazicowgirl

Good debate, and it is similar to the Facebook guy from Chorley who posted offensive comments about April Jones, and the guy who tweeted about Fabrice Muamba. Personally I think this is fine/CS stuff rather than jail but it's interesting the way society is going.

Pity all these cases are something to do with Bolton or nearby. Don't they have any idiots down south?

Good debate, and it is similar to the Facebook guy from Chorley who posted offensive comments about April Jones, and the guy who tweeted about Fabrice Muamba. Personally I think this is fine/CS stuff rather than jail but it's interesting the way society is going.
Pity all these cases are something to do with Bolton or nearby. Don't they have any idiots down south?adatherton

Personally i would rather see a burglar get an extra couple of months and this idiot (thats what he is nothing more or less - for this offence) scrubbing graffiti or litter picking.

His crime may have caused a bit of a bad taste in peoples mouths for a few minutes where a burglar causes pain (admittedly in potentially to less people) for a much longer period.

Agree with AdAtherton;
Personally i would rather see a burglar get an extra couple of months and this idiot (thats what he is nothing more or less - for this offence) scrubbing graffiti or litter picking.
His crime may have caused a bit of a bad taste in peoples mouths for a few minutes where a burglar causes pain (admittedly in potentially to less people) for a much longer period.atlas123

PDY wrote:
This has nothing to do with free speech it was a brazen and offensive reference to the murder of two young police officers who were doing the job that we pay them to do, that is protect us from the sort of low life that parade the streets with T shirts glorifying murder. Presumably Mr Davies and all the people posting in favour of his comments also support the Facebook pages that made the police murderer Moat out to be a saint and the policeman he blinded a sinner.

A viewpoint is a viewpoint whether it is constructive, argumentative or plain sick. Basically if its not libellous then its legal no matter how sick one may percieve it to be.

[quote][p][bold]PDY[/bold] wrote:
This has nothing to do with free speech it was a brazen and offensive reference to the murder of two young police officers who were doing the job that we pay them to do, that is protect us from the sort of low life that parade the streets with T shirts glorifying murder. Presumably Mr Davies and all the people posting in favour of his comments also support the Facebook pages that made the police murderer Moat out to be a saint and the policeman he blinded a sinner.[/p][/quote]A viewpoint is a viewpoint whether it is constructive, argumentative or plain sick. Basically if its not libellous then its legal no matter how sick one may percieve it to be.BWFC71

Bob Shaftoe wrote:
What has this got to do with an MEP? This is the UK and this is British justice. 70% of the population want us out of the interfering EU and this illustrates why. Oh, and by the way Mr Davies, what stance did you take when demonstrators proclaimed &quot;British soldiers go to hell etc etc"?

Yes the same EU that gave us the 48 working hour week thus taking thousands off the unemployment as companies had to hire rather than force people to do regular overtime. The same EU that gave us the minimum wage that took thousands above the poverty line. The same EU that puts workers before the companies and such trying to eradicate the sweatshops that once existed in the UK. The same EU that helps create more than 80% of UK's GDP as they are our neighbours and opur closest market. The same EU that has NOTHING to do with Winston Churchill's European court of Human Rights!!!!! The same EU that still allows the UK to have bendy banana's, drive on the left, use imperialistic measures (although even before the EU or the Common Market the UK was ridding itself of the old measures), that still allows us to have the modern pund (only in circulation since 1971. The same EU that allows freedom of travel and moevment and jobs throughout the WHOLE of the EU in BOTH directions - not the EU fault that many UK citizens are lazy and loathsome to travel to mainland EU, or even Ireland, for work and expect work to be given to them just because they are English!!!!

Your ignorance is just amazing in thinking that an MEP has nothing to do with us. Your MEP reports back to Brsussels - do you know who your MP is, or how often you communicate with your MP (who is basically paid more than an MEP, by the way, and has more freedom when it comes to expenses!!!)

[quote][p][bold]Bob Shaftoe[/bold] wrote:
What has this got to do with an MEP? This is the UK and this is British justice. 70% of the population want us out of the interfering EU and this illustrates why. Oh, and by the way Mr Davies, what stance did you take when demonstrators proclaimed "British soldiers go to hell etc etc"?[/p][/quote]Yes the same EU that gave us the 48 working hour week thus taking thousands off the unemployment as companies had to hire rather than force people to do regular overtime. The same EU that gave us the minimum wage that took thousands above the poverty line. The same EU that puts workers before the companies and such trying to eradicate the sweatshops that once existed in the UK. The same EU that helps create more than 80% of UK's GDP as they are our neighbours and opur closest market. The same EU that has NOTHING to do with Winston Churchill's European court of Human Rights!!!!! The same EU that still allows the UK to have bendy banana's, drive on the left, use imperialistic measures (although even before the EU or the Common Market the UK was ridding itself of the old measures), that still allows us to have the modern pund (only in circulation since 1971. The same EU that allows freedom of travel and moevment and jobs throughout the WHOLE of the EU in BOTH directions - not the EU fault that many UK citizens are lazy and loathsome to travel to mainland EU, or even Ireland, for work and expect work to be given to them just because they are English!!!!
Your ignorance is just amazing in thinking that an MEP has nothing to do with us. Your MEP reports back to Brsussels - do you know who your MP is, or how often you communicate with your MP (who is basically paid more than an MEP, by the way, and has more freedom when it comes to expenses!!!)BWFC71

Nat's lad wrote:
The weakness in this MEP's view is that free speech is only acceptable when it suits his own view. Presumably, any nazi-promoting racists are allowed free speech according to him? Or perhaps not. The key here is not just that this is a grossly offensive idiot, but the implication that it is good to kill, therefore this is clearly incitement and this conveys the comments into a different league altogether. Free speech or a civilised society in which people show respect for each other and the authorities put in place to protect them? I know which I would choose. Presumably, Andrew Mitchell was excused when he ranted at the police in Downing Street?

Andrew Mitchell actually broke the law by using profanity towards the policemen - hence now why he has resigned. Using the word "plebs" is not against the law and is an opinion rather than a state of fact.

[quote][p][bold]Nat's lad[/bold] wrote:
The weakness in this MEP's view is that free speech is only acceptable when it suits his own view. Presumably, any nazi-promoting racists are allowed free speech according to him? Or perhaps not. The key here is not just that this is a grossly offensive idiot, but the implication that it is good to kill, therefore this is clearly incitement and this conveys the comments into a different league altogether. Free speech or a civilised society in which people show respect for each other and the authorities put in place to protect them? I know which I would choose. Presumably, Andrew Mitchell was excused when he ranted at the police in Downing Street?[/p][/quote]Andrew Mitchell actually broke the law by using profanity towards the policemen - hence now why he has resigned. Using the word "plebs" is not against the law and is an opinion rather than a state of fact.BWFC71

JustBecause wrote:
He wasnt jailed for wearing a tshirt, it was a public order issue, which was a result of the low life thinking he can go around saying what you want regardless of the format or content, at somepoint he would have been assaulted, i for one would have punched his lights out. Cannot belive A: the idiot MP(well actually i can because 99% of MPs are simply idoits) or B: the idiots who actually agree with him. Do they agree with the facebook pages that were set up condoning the killings ? How about a tshirt with the little girl from wales saying &quot;one less welsh kid to worry about" ..... NO its simply not acceptable. He should be sacked.

Actually all that you say is acceptable as its an opinion and not a libellous opinion.

Is what you say that 99% of MP's are idiots just as bad as the facebook pages - yes it is, as you are degrading a person and a profession, but its an opinion which you are legally entitled to.

[quote][p][bold]JustBecause[/bold] wrote:
He wasnt jailed for wearing a tshirt, it was a public order issue, which was a result of the low life thinking he can go around saying what you want regardless of the format or content, at somepoint he would have been assaulted, i for one would have punched his lights out. Cannot belive A: the idiot MP(well actually i can because 99% of MPs are simply idoits) or B: the idiots who actually agree with him. Do they agree with the facebook pages that were set up condoning the killings ? How about a tshirt with the little girl from wales saying "one less welsh kid to worry about" ..... NO its simply not acceptable. He should be sacked.[/p][/quote]Actually all that you say is acceptable as its an opinion and not a libellous opinion.
Is what you say that 99% of MP's are idiots just as bad as the facebook pages - yes it is, as you are degrading a person and a profession, but its an opinion which you are legally entitled to.BWFC71

Flycatcher wrote:
If this is free speech then Abu Hamza was allowed to spew whatever vile poison he wished as well. Whilst this is in a different league, i.e this is a low life scumbag with clearly no brains whatsoever, (as opposed to just a low life scumbag) the principle remains the same.

Actually Abu Hmaza was never imprisoned, or ejected out of teh country for his own opinions. he was arrested and charged for inciting trouble by creating "gangs" by creating trouble and breaking quite a few other laws - what he said was personal opinions, uness libellous.

Free Speech is legal until somethiong libellous is commented.

[quote][p][bold]Flycatcher[/bold] wrote:
If this is free speech then Abu Hamza was allowed to spew whatever vile poison he wished as well. Whilst this is in a different league, i.e this is a low life scumbag with clearly no brains whatsoever, (as opposed to just a low life scumbag) the principle remains the same.[/p][/quote]Actually Abu Hmaza was never imprisoned, or ejected out of teh country for his own opinions. he was arrested and charged for inciting trouble by creating "gangs" by creating trouble and breaking quite a few other laws - what he said was personal opinions, uness libellous.
Free Speech is legal until somethiong libellous is commented.BWFC71