Topics in Category: Faiths - Forumhttps://templeofthejediorder.org
Sun, 15 Sep 2019 13:33:07 +0000Joomla! - Open Source Content Management/media/kunena/images/icons/rss.pngTopics in Category: Faiths - Forumen-gbIs There One Right and another Wrong? Christianity, the Red-headed Step-child... - by: Rexhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/119842-is-there-one-right-and-another-wrong-christianity-the-red-headed-step-child?start=10#340896
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/119842-is-there-one-right-and-another-wrong-christianity-the-red-headed-step-child?start=10#340896
I could get unitarian universalists and jedi as being christian-inspired, but to go back to the OP I think Christianity is necessarily exclusive. Not to say Christianity is unique in that way, Islam has the Shahada and Judaism the Shema. Hinduism doesn't have a unified creed because it's such a wide variety of beliefs, and Buddhism is more practice-based than dogma-based.

Religion as a whole is meant to explain the things that can't/aren't explainable to everyone, but ultimately it's a sort of search for the truth. Adhering to any certain religion doesn't prevent you from acknowledging the contributions and truths found by other people (including Yoda) and practices to a certain extent; however, you can't call yourself a Muslim just because you really like the prayers and giving pillars when you ignore the other three (and everything else that those pillars are based upon).

I doubt that most people 100% agrees with whatever beliefs are expressed by their religious institution, but faith revisionism of key components seems like self-dishonesty.

On a separate note, I think Christianity is the sort of religious benchmark and most-scrutinized religion because it is the historical religion of Europe and colonialism. The destructive internal schisms of Christianity imo catalyzed the development of pluralism we see today in developed nations.

Also if we could personify what we most hate about Christianity, I'd bet that we all conjured up a caricatured hick telling us that we're going to hell because we didn't support the invasion of Iraq or we have a friend who's gay. It's that Joel Osteen-ish televangelist who gets rich through exploitation. Imo that doesn't represent the core values of Christianity comparably to how Salafists don't represent Islam]]>Abrahamic studiesSun, 04 Aug 2019 19:32:32 +0000\&quot;Rules for the Forum\&quot; - by: steamboat28https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/6965-quot-rules-for-the-forum-quot?start=30#340241
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/6965-quot-rules-for-the-forum-quot?start=30#340241Abrahamic studiesWed, 03 Jul 2019 22:05:17 +0000A question of The Force. - by: ZealotXhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/15556-a-question-of-the-force?start=110#339505
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/15556-a-question-of-the-force?start=110#339505

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

ZealotX wrote:
When I had sleep paralysis my mind conjured an image one time similar to a succubus. This doesn't offer proof of the existence of succubi; merely proof that my mind was able to fish something out of my memories to construct this simulation of me being attacked by a demon in order to explain/communicate the fact that my brain wasn't getting enough oxygen. And at that time, me as a believer who was disenchanted with my denomination, I called on God and used the name of Jesus and lo and behold "I was saved?" Except that it was merely a coincidence. I conjured one image to fight another.

Are you suggesting that my Unicorn Herd is merely a confirmation bias brought on by me leading the evidence to a preconceived conclusion? A conclusion that I found in other areas of my life such as literature and ancient texts? Hmm do you suppose that Uzima Motos concept of subtle energy bodies that manipulate the physical universe could be the same thing? In effect just confirmation bias and wishful thinking and not based on any sort of actual explanation based in reality at all!!??

My god... THE HORROR!!!!!!!!!
How will we go on with out an explanation to the most basic concept of reality? I don't see how anyone can live with this question without making SOMETHING up! Even if its not true, at least we would have an answer... a belief! Yes that's it a belief based in logical fallacy, that is what we need in order to move forward. Wouldn't you agree?
Yes, of course, but I think you're getting push back from Uzima because the concept of astral projection wasn't invented to explain their personal experience while you made up the unicorn herd. I think that's where the disconnect is. A lot of people believe in conspiracy theories and "occult sciences" and I even though I said "occult science" its really more like occult beliefs because there is no rigorous system in place to prove these things. People simply use open mindedness to believe these things are possible.

And then when multiple people present experiences of the same kind then the idea gains credibility within the occult world. And there's a tinge of conspiracy theory implied because it goes along with the notion that the normal fields of science don't want to explore these "hidden" things and have some ulterior motive to oppose them. So I get where you're coming from but I think you'd need a different tactic here.

For example, take numerology. Do I believe in numerology? Absolutely not. What I believe in, however, is the ability of the mind to make it look like numerology actually works. It's the MIND, not whatever thing or totem used as a medium for whatever answers or psychological product that you're supposed to take away from it. If the mind is trying to communicate something to you via dream or vision, it would be unwise to argue that the dream or vision never happened but rather that it was an experience of the MIND.

As an experience of the mind, one person may have an experience that cannot be shared (and therefore cannot be tested or duplicated) by another because it isn't part of everyone's reality, but rather just that person's experience which includes their dreams.

Now take astrology. It's very much like numerology. What scientific basis does it have? Are our personalities actually different because of how the planets are aligned? Could there be some subtle influence on us based on time and season? Perhaps, but it doesn't have to be for the same reasons suggested by astrology. But almost everyone I know believes in astrology to some degree. So I think that's the deeper issue. How do you dispel experiences of a kind that have been experienced by others? Uzima didn't invent astral projection. His experience just falls into that category and therefore, for him, creates verification.

Of course the experiences of many do not prove a thing true. Every religion is supported by a great many people, living and passed, who have had experiences that fall into the category set up by their religion.

And then there's ayahuasca and the fact that more than a few people have seen similar visions as if tapping into some older memory of earth, having to do with serpents.

How do you debunk these shared experiences? Is it possible that people, before they have them, are primed and told what they might see which then has an effect on their experience? Or is it something else?

At some point, perhaps it makes more sense, not necessarily to debunk "astral projection" in general because it operates on the same fundamentals that all religions do, but rather understand the subtext or premise of the actual experience. Perhaps, the mind's reaction to the physical restraint of sleep paralysis was to create a vision of being completely unrestrained (even by the laws of physics). To me this would make perfect sense. Consider how a loss of sight may increase that person's perception of hearing. Once the person understands why something may be happening that is within the mind's natural toolkit they will naturally give less weight to alternatives that seem to be more supernatural.]]>Abrahamic studiesMon, 10 Jun 2019 16:28:38 +0000Pagan Special Interest Advisor - by: Kithttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Pagan-studies/121293-pagan-special-interest-advisor#322132
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Pagan-studies/121293-pagan-special-interest-advisor#322132
I've practiced shamanism for about four years now, with a focus on speaking and working with power animals. I also have a passion about learning other religions (especially those under the 'pagan' heading) so I've studies in as many as I could have the time and resources for. I've also worked with some generic energy healing, and deities from a few pantheons. I also have experience in Tarot cards, crystals, and making (and imbuing) ritual/power items.

The term Pagan encompasses a huge swath of practices and beliefs so I know I don't know everything, but I'm here for questions or to bounce ideas off of if you need it!

I'm wanting to do ceremonies for holidays. I don't have any particular ones outside of U.S. cultural ones, so I'll be looking to Wiccan ones to start. If you would like help in any others, send a PM my way! I'm also wanting to do monthly drumming sessions that all are welcome to.

In the meantime, please reply or contact me if you have any questions or ideas!]]>Pagan studiesTue, 29 May 2018 18:29:46 +0000What Kind of Jew Are You? - by: Kwitshadiehttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/15161-what-kind-of-jew-are-you?start=30#316666
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/15161-what-kind-of-jew-are-you?start=30#316666]]>Abrahamic studiesSun, 25 Feb 2018 21:53:54 +0000Abrahamic Rites Roll Call - by: Areionhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/8699-abrahamic-rites-roll-call?start=80#307918
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/8699-abrahamic-rites-roll-call?start=80#307918Abrahamic studiesSat, 09 Dec 2017 02:54:43 +0000Changing to the Abrahamic rite.... - by: Areionhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/8209-changing-to-the-abrahamic-rite#307909
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/8209-changing-to-the-abrahamic-rite#307909Abrahamic studiesSat, 09 Dec 2017 02:12:28 +0000S.I.G. -- Buddhist 'Cheat Sheet" - by: Zephyrushttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Eastern-studies/110207-s-i-g-buddhist-cheat-sheet#188216
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Eastern-studies/110207-s-i-g-buddhist-cheat-sheet#188216
One could find that out for themselves through experience.
Or, they could read a bunch of books... and then still only be able to understand it through experience. ]]>Eastern studiesWed, 15 Apr 2015 02:02:30 +0000Library - Grabbag of Occult Literature 1 - by: Demnoshttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Pagan-studies/8834-library-grabbag-of-occult-literature-1?start=30#147751
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Pagan-studies/8834-library-grabbag-of-occult-literature-1?start=30#147751
www.witchschool.com/page/library-1
Sadly, it just list things in groups of the alphabet. But there is a lot there.

Sacred Texts also has an online Book of Shadows, which is a bunch of classic texts.
www.sacred-texts.com/bos/index.htm?PHPSE...3813cc877e4999dcaec6
]]>Pagan studiesTue, 20 May 2014 09:00:16 +0000Taking part in celebrations - by: Mark Anjuuhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Pagan-studies/30272-taking-part-in-celebrations#119418
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Pagan-studies/30272-taking-part-in-celebrations#119418
As you may know, I have been a member of TOTJO for 3 and a half years, most of that time as a serving member of the Council. At present, most of my regular duties concern Council matters, my apprentices, and overseeing the Clerical training at the Seminary. I am happy to field any other matters, especially those relating to the Pagan section, but I only have limited time available at the moment (having just moved my entire life to a new town and faced with building up my business from scratch).

Feel free to interact with this (and any other) section of the forum and I will respond where I can. The initial training undertaken at TOTJO is in the form of the Initiate's Programme. Any one-to-one training beyond that point comes in the form of apprenticeships, an opportunity for more path-specific focus. May the Force guide you through the IP and if it is willing, that we may then engage more fully after that point.

I hope to re-start the sabbat services here, and also to continue to contribute more posts and essays to this section. I just need to finish my many other projects first!

As a point of correction, paganism is but one of many different strands that may be incorporated into your own Jedi path. As Advisor to this section, I guide but do not lead. The Council oversees the Temple but we are still servants of the people
If you would like to get to know me more fully, feel free to communicate via PMs or the forum, or try some of my previous posts, although be warned that there are over 3000 of them!]]>Pagan studiesTue, 24 Sep 2013 17:20:39 +0000Complete Ritual 489 pages MASTER PATTY - by: Grom Fetthttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/8537-complete-ritual-489-pages-master-patty?start=10#22638
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/8537-complete-ritual-489-pages-master-patty?start=10#22638Abrahamic studiesMon, 02 Mar 2009 18:14:40 +0000The First Year...... Emotion and the Jedi Code - by: Neaj Pa Bolhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/22384-the-first-year-emotion-and-the-jedi-code#22384
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/22384-the-first-year-emotion-and-the-jedi-code#22384
http://www.myspace.com/405868496

The First Year..... A Shared Lesson...

Soon it will be the first anniversary of my husband Bob's passing. I have learned and experienced so many things since that day. My open letter to him is beginning to look like the beginnings of a book. There were so many things that have happened or I have had to learn in this new life after our time together. Hospice has been there to guide and support myself and Shannon through all this, knowing full well that the steps would be so much like baby steps for me and the physical, emotional and mental feelings that I would experience would be at times overwhelming for me.

I know that friends with good intentions mean well when they say to get on with my life, but to be honest, it is not as simple as the words sound. Every holiday had it's own set of things that I would have to deal with, just like our anniversary and Bob's birthday as well as mine, Shannon's and Zackary's. And soon, the arrival of Shannon's second baby, Ayden. I tried to be strong and still do, but, even though it does get a little easier, it has been a real tough experience.

Married at 16, I've never really known what it was like to be on my own as an Single Adult. So, being on my own now it is a whole new world for me. I find myself trying to figure out what the next step would be a times, find the things that I use to enjoy to relax or just have \&quot;My\&quot; time is stressful at times when trying to figure out what I want...Read, write, listen to music or wishing I had my Bass guitar that Bob made me give up. After being together for 27 years, all the rough times. hard times, bad times and all the good times is all I have left to remember and hold on to. Dealt with the remarks and comments as well as the looks when it came to the age difference between Bob and I, not as bad as it is today or the nutzy way people look at people being together or approaching to be together when there's an age difference.

There have been the days that the depression and missing him so much, I would just be zapped of all my energy or episodes of just crying that exhausted me. No matter how strong you try to remain, love is really an unfathomable thing. You can't measure it, or try to figure out how deep it is, it's not meant to have boundries.

So, since the first year is almost here, all I can say is this. Don't try to undermine or evaluate what a persons feelings are when they are going through the steps of loss. There are no set rules or steps that are specific when you loose a loved one. There is no set time or how long when one should deal with grief, it's not over night, it's not one month, etc. It comes down to when you in your heart is able to take the next steps.

When writing this, I've taken a step back and looked outside myself and thought about Human emotion and then while watching a litter of wolf-dog cubs we have, I observed emotions in them. They say there are many things that separate humans and animals, but emotions even run in them. I watched the mother and how she is tender yet stern with the cubs. How she mothers them by licking and caressing them. We know they can show pain and sadness, yet when I look into their eyes, my mind tells me there is so much more. Intelligence, inquisitiveness, mischievousness, playfulness and more... We are not the only ones that feel things...

Things that took time to learn and appreciate, yet most of that was with another that is now gone and how I appreciate all of that so much more.

For my Jedi Friends.....
For the Jedi part of this, one may say that I am not following the code, yet I disagree and I will explain why...

The Code I follow is:

There is no Emotion; There is Peace.
There is no Ignorance; There is Knowledge.
There is no Chaos: There is Harmony.
There is no Passion; There is Serenity.
There is no Death; There is the Force.

Being Jedi does not mean you can not feel. Emotions is what is essential in being human. When we loose complete control of our emotions to the point that they dictate or rule everything we do and cannot pull back and restrain ourselves is when that part of the code as a Jedi have failed. In my moments of dealing with grief, it did not get to out of control. Grief allows one to express the loss. Knowing that it is normal to grieve in a world where we do feel things is not a bad thing, nor against the code. We live in a world where we have been brought up as humans with feelings. Even the fictional Jedi had feelings, its how we manifest those feelings and what do in our lives with those reactions.

To say strictly no emotion would be saying Jedi were apathetic, (without emotion). That is not what Jedi are. Emotion is not just sadness or grief or depression, there is happiness, glee, joy, etc. So the Code in general speaks out to the Jedi, reminding he or she that through all these things we experience in life Jedi seek the enlightenment of all, knowing where to draw that line to maintain a balance between all things, but with reverence, respect, knowledge and insight to find that balance in true Peace, continued gaining of Knowledge, to live in Harmony, reactions that are calm and with Serenity and of all things, the never ending balance within the Force for all time....

One can say I showed weakness by my grief of the loss of my husband, maybe so. My only reply that I can make is, as a loving wife of almost 27 years, to not be effected by my husbands death means that I would not have been true to who I am and to experience all the things because of that loss, to grow more each day to be that better person I choose to be.

There are many things as Jedi that are the other unseen things to add to the constant knowledge one seeks.

Ideals Of A Jedi:
1. Respect yourself. Without self-respect, you will never be able to respect anything.
2. Respect life. Life is what gives a Jedi his/her power, therefore it is to be cherished always.
3. Respect others. Respect all those around you, for they are part of the Force. Even enemies are part of the Force.
4. Respect Nature. \&quot;Intelligent life\&quot; is not the only life, and through the Force a Jedi may learn sources of wisdom from many places, not all seen as \&quot;intelligent\&quot;
5. Respect death. Death is part of the Force, since everything happens in cycles. The cycle of one life affects another, that is the way of things. The way of the Force.
6. Respect the Dark Side. He who does not respect his greatest enemy will BECOME his greatest enemy. With respect comes, objectivity, insight, seeing how things are done and how to oppose them quickly and decisively.

The Humanistic Rite as the name suggests is a secular one. Members of this Rite are not bound by the TOTJO oath and as such cannot receive either TOTJO rank nor clerical status. These could be described as the lay members of our community. As members of a TOTJO Rite however and their humanistic nature they are subject to our civil laws of conduct and are also answerable to the governing body of the EC. Due to their active participation here they still do represent TOTJO as any other Jedi does. As any guest here they suffer banning for any breach of our laws but not excommunication.

Through their membership of the Humanistic Rite and their striving of the Jedi way of life they are Jedi. As Jedi following their own ideals they can be very well be described as Shadow Jedi. The responsible will take over as PRIMUS and SHADOW MASTER of the Humanistic Rite.

They can participate in Br. John`s lessons. All other issues such as ranking, training, oaths... has to be decided on by the PRIMUS and within the confines of their Forum.]]>FaithsFri, 06 Feb 2009 10:47:36 +0000The end of my time... - by: Jonhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/20623-the-end-of-my-time#20637
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/20623-the-end-of-my-time#20637
...Br. John you have such innovation that can move mountains, mountains like TOTJO.

This is what counts and defines who you are not the small detail, not any mistakes which may be made.]]>Abrahamic studiesWed, 10 Dec 2008 02:04:00 +0000Roman Ritual Complete .txt - by: Veritashttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/8700-roman-ritual-complete-txt#8700
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/8700-roman-ritual-complete-txt#8700

Attachment THE_ROMAN_RITUAL___COMPLETE.zip not found

]]>Abrahamic studiesThu, 01 Nov 2007 08:55:32 +0000A comparative between Dzogchen (Tantric Buddhism) and The Force - by: Adderhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Eastern-studies/122915-a-comparative-between-dzogchen-tantric-buddhism-and-the-force#343582
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Eastern-studies/122915-a-comparative-between-dzogchen-tantric-buddhism-and-the-force#343582
1. Unifying Force, 2. essesence of Living Force, and 3. natured aspect of Living Force (nature).
For me, the distinction between unifying and living being that the unifying is only ever approached while alive such that one generally must die to reach it wholly. While the Rupakaya is the tangible part of the Force (as Force, being as close as can be gotten). The promise then of this Buddhism might be the ability to create a living Buddha that is both alive (rupakaya) but of dharmakaya?
That said, as part of practice to being more Buddha-ish or more Jedi, I think it's important to attribute from bits of 2 down to 1 in efforts to broaden and deepen ones practice. All things being relative, it's easier for me not to define things but ways.]]>Eastern studiesThu, 12 Sep 2019 22:43:57 +0000Important Biblical Figures! - by: ZealotXhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/122887-important-biblical-figures?start=30#343556
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/122887-important-biblical-figures?start=30#343556

The Coyote wrote: Hey Zealot X,

Thanks, I actually only learned what apologetics was about 6 months ago, and I have been a Christain for awhile, but I wasn't forced to be a Christain like many children are, so I've had the wonderful ability to question everything about the faith without anyone to tell me I was wrong for questioning it which I think is a blessing and has allowed me to really make my faith my own. And I would prefer to be an angel's advocate haha

I read through everything, but you definitely put in A LOT! Wow! That's awesome how in depth this all is and there's a lot that I really need to sit down and think about because this is a new perspective. My head is totally spinning and I love when that happens! Thank you for that ZealotX!

I don't know a ton about the Mormon Church as I never really dove into those beliefs, but that was an interesting article!

I'm planning to respond to all of this to the best of my limited knowledge as it brings up a lot of interesting content that will really require me to think through! It'll probably take a few days as I'm 17 pages into writing Lesson 1 Part 5 of the IP and I really want to complete that (plus you know, life exists outside of pondering all of the theology of the world and pondering the Force).

@CaesarEJW, the Bible is definitely a crazy book, though I don't know if I would say "violet crazed glory" but if this conversation has said anything I can at least see where it's coming from! And the Tao Te Ching is actually something I really enjoy (though I definitely could study it better). I've sometimes called myself a Christain Daoist (Taoist?) Jedi haha!

That's awesome.

I just want you to understand, no matter how much of a tangent I may go down talking about Moses..., please understand my feelings for Yeshua (Jesus) are pretty much the exact opposite. Moses was like a sith emperor sneaking his way into power, then all of a sudden there's this huge military and they're off trying to conquer the universe. I think that's what Caesar was getting at. The OT is like a wild wild west of extreme violence. So I have to agree with his sentiment and summation. What Christians try to do is see the good in spite of all that other "stuff" in between. But it doesn't help the Jedi to ignore threats in our midst. It just makes it that much easier for us to be conquered.

Jesus basically came on the scene like Luke. And Obi wan was his John the Baptist. There are more parallels I could draw in the small details but it doesn't matter. The big picture is what matters. Islam is basically living in that Mosaic past (not all of Islam) and mindset. They have a patriarchal system that isn't interested in crazy ideas like equal rights. And they don't have to care about the translation about how husbands and wives should submit to each other because for them its all about Moses and the kingdom of God that conquers all others and forces everyone to obey his law. Moses would be that guy would order the Death Star to fire at the Philistines, the Amalakites, the Edomites, and so on.

Jesus had to use the unfulfilled prophecies of the OT as cover and as credibility in order to get his message in position to fire a shot into the small exhaust port of the behemoth that was Judaism. And, for the Rebels this was successful because the Rebels (the Christians) do not subscribe to Moses. They respect Moses as an important biblical figure who led the Israelites out of Egypt, but they don't judge each other by his law.

Of course all Christians are not equal and some will make use of Mosaic law in order to attack LGBTs, others may use it to attack black people as the descendants of "Ham", Noah's son, and claiming them to be cursed because of Genesis 9. Many evangelical Christians don't understand the bible or the conflicts within it and they simply want the "treasure". They want power. They want control. Then you have other Christians who are almost fearful of that very thing and stifle their own progress as if stuck in a time warp, but they still help people in need. So you should be proud to be whatever kind of Christian you are and follow the example that Jesus set with the best understanding you can. But I honestly think if Jesus was lurking on this thread he would probably be agreeing with me about Moses because he saw first hand how that whole thing basically destroyed Israel as a nation. They were sinning under the guise of "manifest destiny" and it simply caught up to them. Now that they were in possession of spoils from so many other people they had made themselves a target for a bigger better army to come take spoils from them... and then force them to pay taxes.

That's why I think it is an important question to ask people and to ask ourselves.

If God told you to kill someone, would you do it?

The question seems like its about God but its really about us. Why would God tell you to kill someone? If you think he would then your God is someone with dubious morality and is more like a human. How do you then distinguish that voice from your own thoughts? Perhaps what people thought was God was simply their own conscience and what it allowed or didn't allow them to do. Are we able to recognize God's voice? How do we know that it's God telling us to kill and not ourselves... or even a devil?

I'm not a "Christian" but I consider myself more of a Christian than most Christians because I follow the path he set and a pattern of behavior and enlightenment and zeal. He challenged the people to make them more righteous; to make them better people according to their potential. He spoke on different issues and intellectually defended righteousness, justice, mercy, and most of all love for humanity as I try to do on these forums. And he attacked the system that made them think they could never be good enough and therefore needed other people to preach to them and charge them 10%. Moses sought to control the people and subdue them through fear and death. Jesus was a hero who made people love him and follow him, not because they were afraid of him, but because they loved who he was and because of what he was willing to do for them; sacrificing himself so that they could live. Do you see the contrast? Jesus was a shepherd willing to go after the one lost sheep that Moses would have simply sheared and executed.

This is what made Jesus the Son of God; his love. (1 John 3)]]>Abrahamic studiesWed, 11 Sep 2019 18:58:36 +0000Sith Realist Resources - by: Persi_Stancehttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/121770-sith-realist-resources?start=100#343455
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/121770-sith-realist-resources?start=100#343455Edge of Time.

SPOILERS
In this game, we learn that Peter Parker was the CEO of Alchemax all along, which is the company responsible for ALL of the USA's problems in 2099. The Sith and Jedi differ to me in a similar way 2099 Peter and Present Peter view Power and Responsibility.

Present Peter would simply say "With great power, comes great responsibility." Present Peter clearly interprets this as "The more power you have, the more you are responsible for what happens around you." He knows all too well that his powers and the powers of others are what makes the difference between helping and hurting people, and he chooses to help.
2099 Peter still holds his acute awareness of power in his mind, but after he lost everyone he loved to a non-specified event that he was powerless to stop, his moral phrase was twisted in his own head. When he speaks to Present Peter, he has this to say:
"With great power comes great responsibility... and opportunity. And the only way to live up to all that responsibility is to use every opportunity to get ALL the power."
But wait, if Present Peter interprets "responsibility" as "to others", and 2099 Peter got twisted this way because he didn't have enough power, then doesn't that just make 2099 Peter power-hungry so he can help others? How is he like a Sith?
It's harder to notice if you don't truly understand the horrible things Alchemax is tied to, which is more explicit in the comics. Drugging workers into addiction with an exclusive serum and paying them in money AND the serum so they can't leave, even in the face of immoral human experiments, pollution without regulations, and a police equipped with hidden security cameras in every imaginable space that arrest you if you speak or do anything even slightly interpreted as unusual? Does that sound like helping?
It does, a little, when you stop to think about it, right? Well, he needs his workers, and the police are preventing crime before it happens, right?
Consider this: the Sith acquire all the power they possibly can in service of a personal goal. They discard morals and emotion in order to attain whatever they need to, not just achieve, but crush this personal goal into the dirt. This is what 2099 Peter has done, where as Present Peter is content to do the most of what he can with what he has without going out of his way for more, and more, and more... like the Jedi are.

Or, the spoiler free TL;DR version:
The Jedi are "With great power comes great responsibility [to others]".
The Sith are "I need ALL the power so I can do anything and everything I've ever wanted [which can sometimes include others if it suits me]".

Alethea Thompson wrote: This is for those of you that are Christian. The challenge is to come up with a non-Biblical reason that Christianity is a better belief system for you than any other religion. Why does Christ appeal to you, where the Goddess doesn't, or where the Norse Pantheon, etc?

This is an old thread, and I hope I will neither offend nor inconvenience anyone by breathing life into it again. I just found it now.

I am at best quasi-Christian. There's much about what seems to be the sort of Christianity that is most culturally visible that rubs me the wrong way. But I still find inspiration, guidance, and hope in what we know of the teachings of Jesus ... so with that as my foundation, I'll start with citing (in admiration) Adi's observance that the traditional Christian faith is grounded in scripture, tradition and reason. And with due honor to Adi's emphasis on reason from that triad, what I find most unique about Christianity when its scriptural roots are excluded from consideration is its tradition, especially as expressed in its inspired art.

The architecture of classically-designed churches has been developed and refined over many centuries by devoted, committed disciples. There is a markedly different feel in entering a Christian church with carefully-shaped high arches and elaborate, symmetrical iconography that in entering, say, a library, a police department, a bar, a Tibetan Buddhist temple, or a WalMart. The dreams and aspirations of countless worshipers are an almost palpable presence, and there is a felt Presence there that is different from the ambiance of temples of other sacred traditions ... at least to my senses.

Then there is the inspired music of Church tradition. In the old Gregorian chants, there is something angelic, something sacred that is not conveyed in the sounds of either Beyonce or Beethoven. There is a suggestion of a call to something transcendent and marvelous. Even in at least some more contemporary pop Christian music, the product of less contemplation and more commercialism, there can be found upliftment and the promise of a reality that transcends our conventional mundane experience. Other faiths can validly make similar claims about their music, yet each faith's genre conveys to our subconscious a different, felt image of the Divine. The Christian one, in my experience, most powerfully inspires a sense of devotion.

Then, there is the Lord's Prayer. A very liberal minister I once heard speak observed that, even if Jesus actually was a myth and everything in the Bible just so many fairy tales, that prayer - repeated with heartfelt sentiment by millions of people dozens or hundreds of times each - had thereby accumulated a spiritual potency of its own nature. The same could be said of Eastern mantras and Jewish or Muslim prayers, but within the limits of my familiarity there is no ancient prayer still in use that conveys such a powerful message of reverence, devotion, and hope for healing.

Absent the Bible, and absent reason informed by history, I think these things would touch my heart today if I just now was exposed to them for the very first time.]]>Abrahamic studiesWed, 21 Aug 2019 22:40:35 +0000Buddhism sessions hosted at the praxeum - by: Koboshttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Eastern-studies/122067-buddhism-sessions-hosted-at-the-praxeum?start=30#341408
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Eastern-studies/122067-buddhism-sessions-hosted-at-the-praxeum?start=30#341408
Much Love, Respect and Peace,
Kobos]]>Eastern studiesSun, 18 Aug 2019 13:41:44 +0000Tarot and Jediism - by: lightscribehttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Pagan-studies/122770-tarot-and-jediism#341176
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Pagan-studies/122770-tarot-and-jediism#341176

Uzima Moto wrote: Not that EM waves come from photons, but that they are the EM waves.. my point was, as always, about the disrupting the radiowaves on this level. Not changing their frequency. It would be like having a wave tank filled with water. Then when you generated the wave, you flash froze all the water instantaneously. Its molecules frozen in place, the wave wouldn't collapse until you unfroze it. Now, that might've actually happened when I released it, I'm not sure. Just for a moment, though, the wave was held in one place.

Okay, so... waves are solutions to the wave equation. If you freeze your lake, you may keep the water surface elevation, perhaps, but it is a wave no longer, because it moves no longer. Its frequency is also zero then, because the time it takes for the surface elevation at any given point in space to return to the same phase it started out from and left is undefined. You cannot get rid of time dependence and retain frequency, since that is literally the quantifier of the wave's time dependence. You might as well be telling us how you made a square circle or divided by zero. I tried to get some clarification, but no such luck, alas.
Lake?? Of course that would happen with a lake. That's why I specifically said wave tank. If all the water molecule in the tank (simulating the em wave as it passes through my etheric field) is instantaneously frozen as it makes a wave. What will the water look like?? Stop there, go no further about equations and what not because I wasn't trying to change the nature of the wave. Just redirect it. I've made that point constantly.. you're steady putting words in my mouth..

Absorbed? No, where did you get that? Why do you keep putting words in my mouth? Lol..

"Near stop" is correct. Almost like it was vibrating in the etheric field around my hand. There was a good amount of resistance.

I got that from the passage I quoted. You said you were (trying to or indeed) weakening the wave's ability to reach the receiver. Well, a photon either reaches it or it doesn't. It doesn't struggle to reach it, nor does it barely make it. It is either absorbed on the way, or it is not. Weakening the signal means either redirecting it elsewhere (i.e. absorbing and re-emitting in a direction from whence a much smaller fraction would diffract back toward the receiver) or absorbing it. At least that's how it works with real radio waves.

Well, aside from the Freeze command, which was me holding a portion of the wave. All other commands consisted of redirections. Which is why I said in the beginning that it was the most difficult command. Photons can be held..

Yes, it is. I have no idea what any of that is supposed to mean, and judging by how you think photons or waves can be manipulated, I'm not entirely sure you do either. What exactly is a photon if it's not the interaction, the function? Are you saying there is a photon "object" that is in any way whatsoever distinguishable or separable from the way it operates? What is this philosophical essentialism? I thought you were presenting an experiment.

Once again, for the umpteenth time.. get this through that blocked eye chakra of yours.. I DID NOT INTEND TO CHANGE THE PHOTONS, THE WAVES, THE FREQUENCY, OR ANY OF IT'S PROPERTIES.. JUST WEAKEN IT'S ABILITY TO REACH THE RECEIVER..

I may be using some words in ways that are confusing. However, my point hasn't changed at all. You keep twisting my words.. and it's shameful..

False. I said you were eventually going to claim that what you were dealing with is ethereal rather than material, and that despite speaking of electromagnetic waves you were eventually going to say it was all about some ethereal EM waves instead. And what you eventually said (see the quote) was that this is indeed all about "astral/etheric frequency" and that it was "bypassing material/physical physics". I'm sorry you don't like my reading the things you say as you say them, but you did pretty much do what I predicted you would. You were talking about EM waves for most of the thread, challenged me to back up my claim that what you were claiming you did to them was impossible, and then just shifted the whole narrative to be about special magical EM waves when I did, exactly as I said you were going to, and now you are trying to claim that this was what you meant all along. That's fine. I'm not trying to pull you back to where you started. I'm just pointing out that I called that you were going to do this ahead of time, whether that means anything to you or not.

Clearly you have yet to actually comprehend anything I've said. All matter is a Ethereal, including photons. So, like any other particle of energy, they have etheric bodies as well..
!!PLEASE REFER TO FIGURE ONE!!
As I've tried to explain from the beginning. I was affecting the etheric bodies of the photons with my own etheric field. This is an interaction that happened beyond the physical dimension. Yet effected it by redirecting the radio waves.. this happened without me truly understanding that aspect of the superior physics involved. I have maintained that point throughout this thread from the very beginning. You can't call something I've been doing this whole time. It just makes you look desperate for clout..

"As I continued to study after these events. My understanding of them has changed. At one point, as well as during this experiment. I thought as you described. However, I did mention that that had changed.. I even have a picture to describe the difference in simple terms."
..from the post quoting an earlier post before you so-called "called" what I was going to do..

I've been saying the same thing this ENTIRE thread because I have no reason to lie. This has actually been beneficial for further understanding on my part. EM waves, more specifically the photons they consist of, have etheric bodies. EVERY PARTICLE AND ATOM HAS AN ETHERIC BODY.. my conclusions are, as of 2017, are that you can manipulate the actions and interactions of etheric bodies and affect their material bodies. Including EM Energy.. this is superior physics, not non-physical.. as there is resistance to manipulation like in nature..

Oh, and while we're on the subject of misrepresenting the other's position or claims:
I never said that it was ever about some vague sort of "changing the waves themselves..", what ever that means.

it means the same as what:

"Okay, so... waves are solutions to the wave equation. If you freeze your lake, you may keep the water surface elevation, perhaps, but it is a wave no longer, because it moves no longer. Its frequency is also zero then, because the time it takes for the surface elevation at any given point in space to return to the same phase it started out from and left is undefined. You cannot get rid of time dependence and retain frequency, since that is literally the quantifier of the wave's time dependence. You might as well be telling us how you made a square circle or divided by zero." Implies..]]>Abrahamic studiesFri, 02 Aug 2019 16:37:53 +0000I wonder (Abrahamic version) - by: Omhu Cusporhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/122700-i-wonder-abrahamic-version#340276
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/122700-i-wonder-abrahamic-version#340276
To me, being a Christian means following the teachings directly provided by Jesus as we know them. That is different from following the teachings of other people who write or speak of his life (including Paul). Those teachings encourage compassion, extended even to those who we may find irritating or offensive. Boiled down to their most basic form, Jesus himself summed them up as (1) love God, and (2) love other people. I don't find those in contradiction to Jediism at all.

Another person who believes that the heart of Christianity is defined by a war for our souls between God and a powerful fallen angel, and that the only way to convince God you are not on the side of that angel is to publicly confess your acceptance of Jesus as the only means of your rescue, would I suspect have more difficulty. Jediism would to him or her probably seem irrelevant, or perhaps even a dangerous distraction from the one true faith.

My resolution to the variance between those two views of the Christian faith rests in Matthew 25:31-46. Paul trumpeted loudly the necessity of worshipping Jesus in order to be spared the fate of eternal punishment, but the metaphorical account offered by Matthew is what Jesus himself had to say about it. Paul's words would imo conflict with Jediism as a legitimate faith tradition, but those of Jesus would not.]]>Abrahamic studiesFri, 05 Jul 2019 18:46:38 +0000I wonder -beyond ( Pagan study’s area) - by: Kohadrehttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Pagan-studies/122702-i-wonder-beyond-pagan-study-s-area#340275
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Pagan-studies/122702-i-wonder-beyond-pagan-study-s-area#340275

Rosalyn J wrote: We have such a thing as the capstone for ordination. Its aptly named "Clerical Handbook"

Yup, and I've been enjoying my training within the seminary thus far.

However, when I authored the above post I was more intending for something like this to be outside of the scope of clergy.

I'd like to see a "standard-issue" (so to speak) of field medicine, traditional medicine, crisis management (active shooter, bomb/explosives management, water shortage) be something that each initiate is tasked with developing alongside the current curriculum.

That way, even if potential members opt for a path outside of clergy service; they still have skills or a least a pocket reference on how to deal with situations that are becoming increasingly common.

That, in addition to the other aspects; such as doctrine, holidays, etc.

If that's already included within the scope of a clerical handbook, I think that's awesome. Also, if so; I think it could still benefit membership here to have that extended as part of the IP.]]>Pagan studiesFri, 05 Jul 2019 16:44:28 +0000I wonder further ( Eastern Study’s) - by: Carlos.Martinez3https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Eastern-studies/122701-i-wonder-further-eastern-study-s#340237
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Eastern-studies/122701-i-wonder-further-eastern-study-s#340237
I ask because as Pastor- I really wanna know. I serve you so tell me about you ? If I can hear from all parts from leaders to class leaders to teachers to just the movie of beginners ... all are welcome to post but ... this spots for you.]]>Eastern studiesWed, 03 Jul 2019 18:13:00 +0000Christianity and the force - by: ZealotXhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/122696-christianity-and-the-force?start=10#340232
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/122696-christianity-and-the-force?start=10#340232

steamboat28 wrote:
In rabbinic literature, the Presence of G-d has its own name (the Shekinah), and in the Kabbalah it is regarded as the feminine aspect of the Divine.

All this discussion about trinitarian doctrine is moot because, ultimately, "Adonai echad" -- G-d is One. Trinitarian thought doesn't dispose of that notion at all; it simply shows three "avatars", if you will, of the same Divine Being--the Father is the mind of G-d, the Son is the hands of G-d, and the Holy Spirit is the heart of G-d. At least, that's where my rabbit trail of belief led me.

Kabbalah is kind of like an unsanctioned version representing some of the dissenting views of Jewish orthodoxy. I believe they believed that much of the writings were simply written by different men who were "inspired" but not "directed" to write what they did. And so again, they have their own knife to slice the pizza with. Hebrew scripture battles these other versions as well as the "lying pen". You had groups like the Essenes which both Yeshua and John the Baptist were likely members of.

"God is the Two in One. He is She and She is He.... Therefore shall the name of the Father and the Mother be equally hallowed, for they are the great aspects of God, and the one is not without the other, in the One God."

According to this, the Essenes didn't believe in multiple "persons" as the Trinity claims but rather that God was a BALANCE of masculine and feminine.

I don't think the Trinity is compatible with the OT. The NT was never concerned with the fundamentals of Judaism because it wasn't written as a bible or holy book, but rather mostly supplemental letters and guidance for people who were studying Torah. So the idea that one can obtain a new doctrine, especially about the identity or very idea of God, is incomprehensible to me.

I'll give you a few examples of why I think this:

Deuteronomy 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the Lord he is God; there is none else beside him.

Now... let me render it again but how it actually reads in Hebrew.

Deuteronomy 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that YAHWEH he is God; there is none else beside him.
www.linkedword.com/deut/4/35-4/35
(simply click on Lord to see that adonai here is a substitution for the ineffable name YHWH)

So here God = YAHWEH and at the same time it denies the existence of anyone else who might lay claim to the same title.

2 Samuel 7:22 Wherefore thou art great, YAHWEH God: for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

6 Thus saith YAHWEH the King of Israel, and his redeemer YHWH of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
7 And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them.
8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it ? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any .
www.linkedword.com/isa/44/-44/22

For me this is the clearest you can be. This isn't a title saying no one else can have this title. This is a name saying no one else can have this title. No one else is name YHWH and clearly he says "I" and "ME" and "MY" indicating there is but one speaker, identified as YHWH, who is saying he is the only God and there is no other. For ME... this makes the Trinity impossible because it relies on titles being like "offices" where you can have different people be president and vice president and so in their minds they wanted Jesus to have great power instead of Jesus having access to great power because he was a "son" of God. Who else was called the son of God in the bible? Adam. Who else? David.

A lot of people took the whole sonship thing quite literally without understanding the spiritual/metaphoric nature of it. But we can see an example of this was understood spiritually in the letter to the Corinthians. I want to make the "TWO Corinthians" joke here but its first Corinthians lol.

1 Corinthians 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

This question of who begets who is like the olive tree representing Israel where Yeshua becomes the BRANCH that others are grafted into. I believe the idea from a spiritual perspective is more aligned with an understanding of the Force than what you will have if you try to pass the spiritual understanding through later forms of religion like Christianity because they, without many surviving rabbinical teachers and lacking access to the Torah, prone to misinterpretation and the took things literally that should have been spiritual. They even created an evil counterpart to God where no such being originally existed. But it was because they (pizza analogy) were holding the knife.

And of course they didn't speak the same language either so when they go back with that bias and try to understand words like "elohim" I can understand why they thought they were correct, because "el" or "eloah" is singular while the 'eem' ending makes it plural. HOWEVER... the word itself is "power" and the pluralization makes it a plurality of power. Not "powers" in every context but rather "powerful". Powerful is a plurality of potency. Since there were other "powers", including rulers and judges, they used superlative pluralities to differentiate G-d from the other gods (ex: the AL-might-y).

What is a synonym for "force"? Power. So literally the same Hebrew word for God is literally synonymous with the Force. And all I'm saying is that different groups of people had control of their own knife because even if they agreed there was one God not everyone agreed with what that meant. I submit to you that the Essenes did understand God to be a single person but that "he" was generic in the sense that "he" was a perfect balance of both genders. So they didn't need a God married to a Goddess. And this was important, imho, because it showed that God wasn't being given human features for the sake of being easier to relate to. They were willing to see God as a neutral genderless... "Force". So that's why I think it's good that we don't try to force each other into 1 belief or opinion about the Force or which religion was correct and what not because like you said, they're all just faces. To me the problem with the Trinity is that these were thought to be separate personas. Jesus talks to God and asks why he was forsaken as if he was a literal Son God which became God the Son. To me that goes against Yahweh's statements in the Torah. HOWEVER, I also believe that these statements in the Torah are also just the writings of men and reflect their beliefs, not the voice of a cosmic deity. But... for me the Torah is the foundation of the Tanakh which is the foundation for any holy books based on the Hebrew tradition. And so I just think the Trinity stepped too far outside the box and did so for the purpose of appealing to pagan gentiles; especially sun worshipers like Constantine.

It's a lot like the Faith of the Seven in A Song of Ice and Fire; the Father, Mother, Warrior, Maiden, Smith, Crone, and Stranger aren't different gods. They're all just faces, facets, aspects, or personae of one.

The existence of Yeshua haMashiach, Jesus the Christ, could be that of an ascended or awakened master. Either way, Yeshua Himself did nothing to contradict the Shema--G-d is still One, just One with many faces and omnipotence enough to send a sliver of Themselves into a human body to live and walk the earth as Yeshua. And Yeshua did nothing to discredit the Ten Commandments or the 613 mitzvot, because He claimed that if one loved G-d and loved their neighbor, they would unwittingly keep all the Law and the Prophets.

again, I agree with 99% of what you're saying but I think the "me" and "my" and "I" is incompatible with the "they" and "themselves" used in Christian dogma. Yes, Genesis says "let us make man in our image" but I believe that us and our were inserted into the English which is why I like the Linked Word Project so you can actually see which words were actually there and which were the original Hebrew. But I don't expect to change anyone's mind on this. I just like talking about it since I spent a lot of time researching it so thank you for the opportunity and for listening.

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
www.linkedword.com/gen/1/-1/0
]]>Abrahamic studiesWed, 03 Jul 2019 13:39:22 +0000Smudging - by: J_Rozhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Pagan-studies/122578-smudging#339006
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Pagan-studies/122578-smudging#339006Pagan studiesWed, 29 May 2019 01:37:56 +0000Sadhguru is my Yoda - by: Omhu Cusporhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Eastern-studies/121279-sadhguru-is-my-yoda#338987
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Eastern-studies/121279-sadhguru-is-my-yoda#338987
In my experience - and I'm not young - becoming a dedicated disciple of a guru is most often dangerous. In younger years, I was exposed to several - Adi Da, Atmananda, lightly to Rajneesh, and a little more recently to the Berg family. Each of these had something positive to offer, even something for which many of us thirst. Each was insightful, well versed in several of the world's major religious traditions, witty, charismatic, and intelligent. Each offered inspiration and guidance for living that is not readily available from other sources, at least to many of us in the West. Yet each has been found to be manipulative of their students, and engaged in some mix of financial, sexual, and/or drug abuse. A couple even were involved in attempted murder.

Sadhguru is at least suspect of some of the same traits. His talks can be enlightening and genuinely useful, but there are reports by former devotees of financial manipulation and of being essentially imprisoned during workshops, not allowed to leave even to attend to medical needs. He was charged, though acquitted, of murdering his wife - whom he claims voluntarily left her body by being absorbed in mahasamadhi. His father-in-law still apparently believes in his guilt.

I wouldn't go so far as to try to convince a devotee of his to turn away; that's a personal choice, and requires much more input and consideration than just these few paragraphs. But if anyone reading this is part of that community, I'd at least advise - be careful, be aware. Keep your eyes open, and don't be willing to excuse an infringement of your rights, your worth, or your pocketbook because of your guru's special status. Same applies to anyone who asserts they can be a one-of-a-kind conduit to your enlightenment, especially if there's a charge involved.

Alethea Thompson wrote: Alethea has never "joined" them. Alethea has given them permission to use a video, and is on their Jedi Facebook group- like she is basically everywhere. Where Alethea is, isn't necessarily where the Jedi Community is.

As a matter of record, CoJ is NOT accepted by the Jedi Community. It has people inside of it- but they are largely their own group and there is very little interaction there. CoJ has expressed, several times that they hope to join the bigger Community but have yet to make strides in that direction.

My bad I could have sworn you sat on their council at some point, and there was some sort of multi-group organization that involved them NZ church and a bunch of others going.]]>FaithsTue, 09 Apr 2019 20:24:25 +0000The need of an inter-religious church - all religions talk about light vs. dark! - by: Kyrin Wyldstarhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/122370-the-need-of-an-inter-religious-church-all-religions-talk-about-light-vs-dark#336855
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/122370-the-need-of-an-inter-religious-church-all-religions-talk-about-light-vs-dark#336855

Kraz wrote: My point isnt that every religion is dualistic, Kyrin Wyldstar, but that there in every religion, also monotheistic among others, seems to exist an (evaluated) belief that values "the eternal good" (which often affiliates as "the light"), that have a higher value than "the bad" (which we often affiliate with darkness).

Many do yes, but my point is that not all do. For example true witchcraft, that practiced outside the yuppy white lighters, is not based in any sort of duality. I am not a believer in duality at all. I dont believe evil or good exist as a dichotomy. Energy is just energy. Its not white or black, dark or light, good or evil. There is no "darkness" as a form in anything we need to "avoid". There are just actions and consequences. that is all.]]>FaithsWed, 03 Apr 2019 15:08:22 +0000A Perspective for Seventh Day Adventists (and other "soul sleep-churches") - by: Krazhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/122285-a-perspective-for-seventh-day-adventists-and-other-soul-sleep-churches#336695
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/122285-a-perspective-for-seventh-day-adventists-and-other-soul-sleep-churches#336695
- It really depends upon if you believe in the trinity or not. Because if you believe in the trinity, this is in clear conflict. That because the Holy Spirit is seen as a person. But if you have a non-trinitarian view, this is no problem. Thats because the Holy Spirit is seen as Gods power (Im really unclear if that is the exactly same thing as the Gods breath, which Ive mentioned in my last comment or something else). The Holy Spirit is, in an non-trinitarian view, seen as a force instead of a concrete person. Thats something to think about in this context.]]>Abrahamic studiesSun, 31 Mar 2019 19:01:56 +0000Rodnovery Beliefs - by: Tealthhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Pagan-studies/114348-rodnovery-beliefs#335800
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Pagan-studies/114348-rodnovery-beliefs#335800
The one thing I have found is that Slavic. mythology isn't specific to just one region and that each region has their own but they all tend to be interconnected at the same time. I'll link you to some of the videos I have found so far.

Hope this helps some.]]>Pagan studiesMon, 18 Mar 2019 18:20:17 +0000A calling or a choice? - by: Tealthhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Pagan-studies/122164-a-calling-or-a-choice?start=10#335799
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Pagan-studies/122164-a-calling-or-a-choice?start=10#335799
If you feel drawn to paganism, give it a try. It's not always for everyone but, it's your choice in the end. There is nothing say, "No!!! YOU BELONG TO US NOW AND THERE IS NO ESCAPE!! RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!!" I have known people who have taken a hiatus from the pagan tradition for years then came back.]]>Pagan studiesMon, 18 Mar 2019 18:09:57 +0000Divinity and the Force - by: Arisaighttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/122305-divinity-and-the-force#335353
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/122305-divinity-and-the-force#335353I am Panentheist Jedi, so this'll take a moment to explain.

I believe in an Abrahamic God/deity/being. However, unlike many theistic faiths, I view God as the universe, but also beyond the universe.

But, as a Jedi, I view the Force as a connection between the universe and all things within it, and this deity. The Force is an energy field that is generated by all living things, surrounds us, binds us, all that good stuff. Its not something we control, but something that just is. And through it, we are infinity and intrinsically connected to each and every living thing. A ripple in one part of the pond of energy that is the Force can and will be felt by the entire pond, to one degree or another. This includes ripples caused by a god character, or even the decisions of a grandparent, a world leader, or a man planning for the future.

I've experienced this connection through an astral projection practise. Through it I saw this connection as light, beautiful and pure. This is, however, only my experience, and I cannot nor do I feel the need to prove it. But it has proven instrumental to my growth as a Jedi.]]>FaithsSun, 10 Mar 2019 12:54:33 +0000The Force in Scripture? - by: ZealotXhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/121938-the-force-in-scripture?start=70#334323
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/121938-the-force-in-scripture?start=70#334323
Which poses another good question? Why did it have to be him? God didn't pick the tallest Israelite to fight Goliath so why not pick a slave to go against Pharaoh? Why pick someone who learned how to rule by watching the Eyptians rule over his people? Why pick someone educated in Egypt? Why pick someone who talks like Trump? If we're talking about the God of the Universe then why would we talk him in terms of limitations? Why would he be limited in his choosing? Why did it have to be a guy that was already on the run for murder? Are you supposed to be executed for murder? I guess unless your name is Moses. Then you get to be the defacto ruler.

11 And the Lord said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the Lord?

12 Now therefore go, and I will be with thy mouth, and teach thee what thou shalt say.

13 And he said, O my Lord, send, I pray thee, by the hand of him whom thou wilt send.

14 And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Moses, and he said, Is not Aaron the Levite thy brother? I know that he can speak well. And also, behold, he cometh forth to meet thee: and when he seeth thee, he will be glad in his heart.

15 And thou shalt speak unto him, and put words in his mouth: and I will be with thy mouth, and with his mouth, and will teach you what ye shall do.

This is soooooo strange. Let's put this a different way. YHWH is practically bragging about how he's going to manipulate Pharaoh to do something he really doesn't want to do but make him also not want to do it. YHWH is going to convince Pharaoh and be "heavy" upon him but also is going to make him NOT believe. Therefore, either way it goes it looks like everything's going to plan. But then... all this power and infinite ability to subvert free will (but not in the Garden of Eden) and get the monarch of a nation to bend to your awesome power but your OWN guy... is so scared that even after you give him the "I created your mouth" pep talk (which I really dug on the Prince of Egypt movie), even after saying that he, God himself, was going to give him the words to say, Moses still so not convinced that YHWH has to send his brother along?

This is like if YHWH says... "okay, we're going to rob the bank of Satan and here's how we're gonna do it. You're gonna distract the guard and".... "hold up God. Um... I'd like to but I can't." and then God's like "Yes you can. I got this." and then you're like "I hear you. I really do and its amazing that you're even talking to me and that you chose me. However, I still can't."... and God's like (facepalm) "don't you have a brother or something?"

Of course it doesn't help if YHWH's like "well the guard might not be distracted so there's a chance he could shoot you. But if the first thing you try doesn't work then try this. If that doesn't work then try that. If that doesn't work then make sure you wear your brown britches."

When Pharaoh is finally confronted listen to how it starts off.

5 And afterward Moses and Aaron went in, and told Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Let my people go, that they may hold a feast unto me in the wilderness.

2 And Pharaoh said, Who is the Lord, that I should obey his voice to let Israel go? I know not the Lord, neither will I let Israel go.

3 And they said, The God of the Hebrews hath met with us: let us go, we pray thee, three days' journey into the desert, and sacrifice unto the Lord our God; lest he fall upon us with pestilence, or with the sword.

Moses: let us go so we can hold a feast.
Pharaoh: Um... I never heard of YHWH before. Why would I obey a god I haven't even heard of?
Moses: It's only 3 days. C'mon. God told us (not really. It says God met with them but it was really just Moses) he was going to make us sick or send enemies to kill us if you don't let us go so we can worship him! He's such a meanie!

That didn't go over well. Gee. I wonder why? Again... I think Pharaoh absolutely knew Moses was lying. And guess what? He was willing to take the risk of angering this God who was willing to fall upon his own people with pestilence or with war because Pharaoh knew that rhetoric wasn't directed at them but at him. The insinuation was that if their God was savage enough to do these things to his own people then he should be scared. But it was obviously said to manipulate him and if their God was real then let them prove it. Burden of proof was on them. But they had already come out the gates with multiple lies. There was no "Feast" planned.There was no "3 day sacrifice". And there was no plan for YHWH to punish them if they weren't released. These were flat out lies, just like "and Mexico will pay for it".

21 And they said unto them, The Lord look upon you, and judge; because ye have made our savour to be abhorred in the eyes of Pharaoh, and in the eyes of his servants, to put a sword in their hand to slay us.

22 And Moses returned unto the Lord, and said, Lord, wherefore hast thou so evil entreated this people? why is it that thou hast sent me?

23 For since I came to Pharaoh to speak in thy name, he hath done evil to this people; neither hast thou delivered thy people at all.

Why does Moses go back to YHWH so soon? He hadn't even done a simple card trick yet. Was this the plan? YHWH, in chapter 6, goes back to bragging about what he's going to do to Pharaoh. And he's already making campaign promises about giving them the land of Canaan (which Canaan wasn't paying for either). Giving... I remember giving my wife a new laptop for Christmas. It didn't involve forcing her to fight the people at the store for it. That's not actually "giving".

So after failing to deliver. Moses makes YHWH's campaign promise to give them Canaan but the people aint buying it. They don't trust him either. They gave him a shot because they wanted to be free.

12 And Moses spake before the Lord, saying, Behold, the children of Israel have not hearkened unto me; how then shall Pharaoh hear me, who am of uncircumcised lips?

Moses is still doubting (according to the story)

30 And Moses said before the Lord, Behold, I am of uncircumcised lips, and how shall Pharaoh hearken unto me?

Exodus 7

7 And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

2 Thou shalt speak all that I command thee: and Aaron thy brother shall speak unto Pharaoh, that he send the children of Israel out of his land.

3 And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt.

4 But Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you, that I may lay my hand upon Egypt, and bring forth mine armies, and my people the children of Israel, out of the land of Egypt by great judgments.

I honestly don't know who's telling more lies here, Moses or YHWH. Bring forth mine armies? What armies? The Israelites had to do their own fighting. Of course they didn't know this until they were forced to do so. Had they known they would have to fight multiple nations they probably would not have followed Moses. More deception.

But at least they (Aaron) finally do a miracle. But then they (Pharaoh's guys) do the same "miracle" and the only difference is that they fight and somehow Aaron's snake eats all the others. So.... was this a possessed snake? Why does the snake being able to eat the other snakes make a difference? Or is it to distract us from the fact that the "miracle" was duplicated? An excellent way to "harden" Pharaoh's heart is simply to be underwhelming and then blame it on him. And so even though this "trick" isn't explained all we know is that it was something the Eyptians were able to do and that makes it ultimately suspicious. God tells us that there are no other gods... period. So why are humans able to do this "trick" that God had to give Moses (and apparently Aaron because Moses was chicken) the power to do? If we accept that humans were able to do whatever this "trick" was then it doesn't matter which snake ate who. It means that they didn't need any gods or God in order to do the very same thing. And that's why Pharaoh's heart was hardened. Because whatever he knew, he knew this wasn't the work of some all powerful God that he needed to be afraid of.]]>Abrahamic studiesFri, 15 Feb 2019 22:03:31 +0000The Kind of Christian I Refuse to Be - by: Rosalyn Jhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/122214-the-kind-of-christian-i-refuse-to-be#334004
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/122214-the-kind-of-christian-i-refuse-to-be#334004

For-Emris wrote: Yes, there were some books:

1) George Weigel. Witness to Hope: The Biography of Pope John Paul II. New York: Harper Collins Publishers 2005.
2) George Weigel. The End and the Beginning. Pope John Paul II: the Victory of Freedom, the Last Years, the Legacy. New York: Doubleday 2010

I whrote this book in ukrainian translation, made by Ukrainian Catholic University.

I've downloaded the first. I'm a rather quick reader. I'm looking forward to it]]>Abrahamic studiesSun, 10 Feb 2019 22:51:28 +0000Do you get nervous invoking gods? - by: Kasumihttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Pagan-studies/122165-do-you-get-nervous-invoking-gods?start=10#333801
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Pagan-studies/122165-do-you-get-nervous-invoking-gods?start=10#333801
But overall, on days when I'm a theist, I believe that we are the beloved children of the gods. Any deity worth worshiping isn't looking for excuses to fly into a rage just like any good parent isn't. No, if your kid shows up with a crayon drawing and your name misspelled, you put it on the fridge. Super-messy peanut butter sandwich? Best lunch ever! The gods view our honest mistakes much the same way.

This isn't to say "nothing you do matters to them". But if you mispronounce some Latin or Japanese, or you don't know the traditional way to formulate a prayer, or whatever? Are you doing your best? Then it's gonna be fine.]]>Pagan studiesWed, 06 Feb 2019 17:37:47 +0000jedi haiku - by: Cognushttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Eastern-studies/33407-jedi-haiku?start=210#332366
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Eastern-studies/33407-jedi-haiku?start=210#332366
There is only peace abound
I am a Jedi.]]>Eastern studiesMon, 14 Jan 2019 13:51:54 +0000Recognition of enlightenment as a Faith - by: OB1Shinobihttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/121945-recognition-of-enlightenment-as-a-faith?start=10#330460
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/121945-recognition-of-enlightenment-as-a-faith?start=10#330460

Twigga wrote: My understanding of reductionist thinking is that it takes things apart; the cogs of the bike, the chain off the cogs, the pedals off the cranks, until, yes, you are right, they do become essentially meaningless. On the way you discover aspect that allow you to explain phenomena that are very useful (the material the cogs are made of is equally hard as the material the chain is made of, so they are able to wear each other down. This process of entropy means that bicycles require maintainance, and cannot function indefinitely) that is hard to see if you are looking at the big scale of the whole bicycle.

But reductionist thinking isn't the only kind of thinking in scientific thinking. There is also systems thinking. Systems thinking looks at the causal mechanisms between feet on pedals pushing wheels, and wind blowing on exposed skin on your face leading to an invigorating release of endorphins... Behold! A cyclist is born! *chorus of angels*

Sorry... I might have got a bit carried away there. I am not a very good enlightenment thinker! But there is space for faith and wonder, I think.

P.S. to OB1 - The nice thing about not knowing what I believe myself is that I don't much mind whether you agree or disagree with me, I rarely agree with myself one day to another so I don't see why I should be pressing you to! I am just enjoying exploring ideas with you.

This was a cool post, especially the angels lol. I dont really have anything in particular to add at this point, so i havent, but it just occurred to me that maybe i can be more useful by requesting information rather than trying to contribute it so... why don you ahem enlighten me? Lol
Youve mentioned slavery and womens rights already, could you maybe share some of the particular themes or details of Enlightenment thinking that especially inspire you? And if Enlightenment can be considered a Faith, what would you say its basic tenents are?
I wont actually know if you get anything wrong, either, so dont worry about that lol.]]>FaithsSun, 09 Dec 2018 21:58:35 +0000A hidden history about humanity, dimensions and spirituality - by: Kyrin Wyldstarhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/121928-a-hidden-history-about-humanity-dimensions-and-spirituality?start=100#330314
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/121928-a-hidden-history-about-humanity-dimensions-and-spirituality?start=100#330314

Adder wrote:
I dunno what your talking about as I haven't bought into your narrative of events....

Is this a matter of revisionist history or a simple failure in comprehension of a concise and straightforward question asked of you? Between you and usimi moto I begin to wonder about the true motives of many here. I'm sorry adder either your cognitive bias or you powers of interpretation are causing you this difficulty in comprehension. Either way, I can no longer help you in that capacity.]]>FaithsSat, 08 Dec 2018 22:13:09 +0000Norse Jedi - by: _Vergere_https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Pagan-studies/121851-norse-jedi#329378
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Pagan-studies/121851-norse-jedi#329378

I’ve recently discovered that being a “full Jedi” just isn’t for me. And by “full Jedi” I mean strictly adhering to the Code, Doctrines, etc.

Streen wrote: Instead of wearing some kind of special robes, I'd rather wander the Earth in regular clothes, "hiding" in plain sight. How does the saying go? "Clothes do not make the man"?

There is an old Rosicrucian teaching which has influenced me a lot, which is the admonition that members were not to be constrained to wear a particular habit (like their contemporary monastic orders or societies, who adopted an identifying uniform). This was for two purposes - to allow the members of the fraternity to do their healing work without drawing attention to themselves, and to subtly protect them from turning their membership in the fraternity into a self-serving badge of pride/belonging rather than a purpose for their work (which such things easily tend to become). So I think it's definitely good to have a sense of why it can beneficial to *not* separate oneself from the general populace by wearing something that attracts attention. But there's also a balance to it. Quite often - at least in my experience - spiritual people may dress to invite outside attention (be it positive or negative) to affirm something to themselves, or else dress as a sort of conscious removal from the "ordinary" person - for example, clergy who wear the collar to remind themselves and signal others that they are always "on duty". Either track can be something very powerful and useful, or become something that traps you in superficiality.

Personally, I go for the middle road - when possible, I try to reflect a timeless aesthetic that helps remind me in the hectic day-to-day that I've chosen to live intentionally and without "following the herd", so to speak, but doesn't invite questions. It is, for me, a conscious rejection of the "fashion" mentality that tries to make us be too concerned with what others think of us based on our physical appearance, or buy new wardrobes based on what is "in" that year. That mindset does so much harm, to the people whose labor is treated as disposable, the environment which has to supply the demand, and those who will do extreme things to themselves to be able to participate. Conscious dressing - having fewer items of clothing that are treated as meaningful and part of your entire spiritual expression - can be a vital way of resisting that. I do like to recycle fabrics or clothing items into new creations when possible, but it's also nice to have something that is really precious, specific for the spiritual work you do, and stays with you for a long time, even if no one ever sees them or you only break them out for special events. I live in my "training clothes" these days when I'm not required to wear work-specific things. It saves a lot of wear on my business clothes, and helps encourage me to do small sets of training throughout the day or evening.

Even before I was going for a specific look (however subtle), I would really pay attention to what I wore in public for self-defense reasons - can I move in it? Run? Does it bind anywhere? Distract me with needing to fuss with it? Weapon-friendly, if needed? Purse- can it be used as a weapon? That has pretty much reduced my wardrobe to a specific look these days.

I look forward to seeing the pictures - Imwe's robes are some of my favorites ones.]]>FaithsThu, 05 Jul 2018 17:20:03 +0000Resources and Recommendations for Studying Native American Religions - by: Rosalyn Jhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/121298-resources-and-recommendations-for-studying-native-american-religions#322212
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/121298-resources-and-recommendations-for-studying-native-american-religions#322212FaithsFri, 01 Jun 2018 02:29:34 +0000Let's Talk About Runes - by: Sylver Wyrmhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Pagan-studies/109839-let-s-talk-about-runes?start=10#321272
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Pagan-studies/109839-let-s-talk-about-runes?start=10#321272
That said, it is obviously far from perfect for those very reasons. I fully recommend using other sources, and even learning to mix and match as suits you (and the runes). Many people - me and perhaps Blum included - feel that the runes have a certain way of working with each person in a very unique way.]]>Pagan studiesMon, 07 May 2018 00:49:51 +0000reiki healing? - by: Atticushttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Eastern-studies/116701-reiki-healing?start=30#320118
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Eastern-studies/116701-reiki-healing?start=30#320118
www.amazon.com/Energy-Medicine-Donna-Eden/dp/1585420212
was a good one.]]>Eastern studiesFri, 06 Apr 2018 21:26:58 +0000Bible Study on the Book of Proverbs and Doctrine (Please Read the First Post) - by: Streenhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/121070-bible-study-on-the-book-of-proverbs-and-doctrine-please-read-the-first-post#319001
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/121070-bible-study-on-the-book-of-proverbs-and-doctrine-please-read-the-first-post#319001 Seems we have something to discuss soon

Proverbs is the one and only book of the Bible that I read completely. I've tried others, but this one really stuck out as a general guide for everyone on Earth, no matter what religion you follow.

My favorite verse is this one:

Chapter 17, Verse 27 & 28:

The one who has knowledge uses words with restraint,
and whoever has understanding is even-tempered.

Even fools are thought wise if they keep silent,
and discerning if they hold their tongues.

The more I observe the Jedi Path, learn about it and delve deeper into its theology, doctrine and practise, the similarities are endless; between that of my own path..... Sikhi (Sikhism).

One of the most important parallels to draw is the importance of the sword. In the Sikh way, the sword is not a dark or oppressive "tool", although by the ignorant it can be both viewed and used as such. Through its intercession, one has the ability to restore peace and righteousness, bringing back a balance to the world and plain around you. Yet equally, as the sword may be held in one's hand, so should the rosary (meditation beads).
This simple metaphor although easily overlookable is the very essence of what minds these 2 traditions together.

Emotion, yet Peace. (There is no Emotion, there is Peace.)
Ignorance, yet Knowledge. (There is no Ignorance, there is Knowledge.)
Passion, yet Serenity. (There is no Passion, there is Serenity.)
Chaos, yet Harmony. (There is no Chaos, there is Harmony.)
Death, yet the Force. (There is no Death, there is the Force.)

how can this be called just? why is picking up the sword a good thing?
one may argue on the point that...
The Force like the Atmā (Soul/Lifeforce) cannot be destroyed. In this essence one cannot kill or be killed, neither can one harm or be harmed. because the force (Atmā) is the essence of all things.

In the Sikh tradition, the idea is that one does not fight oppression in aggression but rather in defence. likewise "one only raises the sword when all methods of peace have failed"- Guru Gobind Singh {10th Sikh Guru}

Realising this, the sword as stated before becomes the symbol of justice and upholding that justice for the freedom of that which is good, and right to prevail. Often there is struggle which manifests in a dark fashion, which must be countered and resisted to allow what is good to live.
yet often in that struggle that which is good can loose its way and forget itself, focused too much on the physical embodiment of the sword.
The rosary (Prayer beads) remind one to reflect upon the spiritual aspect of the sword... meditation.. which works in the same fashion.

again we have allot in common.]]>Eastern studiesThu, 28 Dec 2017 14:44:32 +0000Is the Bible the Literal Word of God? - by: Areionhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/102817-is-the-bible-the-literal-word-of-god?start=20#307944
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/102817-is-the-bible-the-literal-word-of-god?start=20#307944
Psalms 119 tells us what
John 1:1 tells us who.]]>Abrahamic studiesSat, 09 Dec 2017 15:02:53 +0000What defines a Christian? - by: Areionhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/115215-what-defines-a-christian#307941
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/115215-what-defines-a-christian#307941
What did he do?
I can for sure think of one time in which he "strapped the bomb to his chest and blew up those infidels". Look at what he did to the money changers at the Temple. So many times he called the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Scribes of his day a brood of vipers, children of Hell, children of the devil etc. He did this because they had put his Father's law on a back seat to their traditions thereby nullifying the Word of God. He wasn't a revolutionary. He wasn't a rebel. He was the Word made flesh. He did what all prophets before him did. He called Israel back to the Torah and taught the Torah on a spiritual level.]]>Abrahamic studiesSat, 09 Dec 2017 14:02:21 +0000Hellenic Pagan Jedi? - by: Lykeioshttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Pagan-studies/104727-hellenic-pagan-jedi?start=20#305933
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Pagan-studies/104727-hellenic-pagan-jedi?start=20#305933]]>Pagan studiesSun, 12 Nov 2017 12:13:00 +0000A Christian Dilemma - by: Kymos Akarihttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/117613-a-christian-dilemma#305866
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/117613-a-christian-dilemma#305866knowledge of good and evil," and Satan said that eating it would make them like G-d. Strange how knowing good and evil makes us like G-d. We externalized G-d thinking we could know good and evil on our own but look where that's gotten us. Thousands upon thousands of years and we still can figure how to be good and live in peace as a whole. We were not made evil, we became corrupt when we externalized G-d by thinking we could know better. As for damnation in Hell, G-d is the Good, the Justice, the Beauty and G-d is eternal. We exist in a state of becoming, as Plato would say, and so we still have a chance to repent (which actually comes from the Latin word meaning "to change one's mind") and change things. However once we shed the perception that is time and reality, we are left with only eternity and if the idea of G-d is also the idealized form of good then we reject eternal Goodness after death for turning from it during time in life and becoming. If you turn from the only true source of goodness what are you left with? Hell. Hell is not punishment per se, but rather separation. Also, Jesus is the embodiment of G-d's love as he gave himself up for us and it is through him that we gain unity with G-d through his gift of the Eucharist. Jesus said "Eat this bread, it is my body. Drink this wine, it is my blood. Do this in remembrance of me." What happens when we eat something? Its nutrients become a part of you. In the same way we make G-d part of us by consuming the body of Jesus, who is G-d and thus we gain unity.]]>Abrahamic studiesSat, 11 Nov 2017 02:24:32 +0000[S.I.G. Eastern Studies] - Zen Buddhist teacher Dogen - by: Kasumihttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Eastern-studies/115008-s-i-g-eastern-studies-zen-buddhist-teacher-dogen#305677
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Eastern-studies/115008-s-i-g-eastern-studies-zen-buddhist-teacher-dogen#305677
21dzk.l.u-tokyo.ac.jp/BDK/bdk_search.php

When the ancients and their students stopped by a pure flowing stream, the teachers compared Tao to water.
Water is flowing. Every drop is made of the same substance. Whatever never fears being divided, because it knows it will flow back together in time. It is eternal.
Water is powerful. Although it can be soothing, comforting, and cleansing, it can also be enormous, mighty and overpowering. Its nature is constant. It is true to itself at any extreme.
Water is profound. In the depths of the lakes, in the darkness of the oceans, it holds all secrets. It is dangerous. It is mysterious. Yet life came from those depths.
Water is unafraid. For any height, it will plunge fearlessly down. It will fall and not be injured.
Water is balance. No matter what the situation is, water will see its own level as soon as it is left alone. Water will always flow downward to the most stable level. It conforms to any situation in a balanced way.
Water is nourishing. Without water, no plant and no living creature could survive.
Water is still. It can be completely still, and in its stillness, mirror heaven perfectly.
Water is pure. It is transparent, clear, needing neither adornment nor augmentation.

For all these features—to be flowing, powerful, profound, unafraid, balanced, nourishing, still, and pure—one who would follow Tao need only emulate water in every way.

]]>Eastern studiesFri, 27 Oct 2017 11:15:58 +0000Native American Jedi? Part 9 - What we do to others, we do to ourselves - by: SamThifthttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/119701-native-american-jedi-part-9-what-we-do-to-others-we-do-to-ourselves#304225
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/119701-native-american-jedi-part-9-what-we-do-to-others-we-do-to-ourselves#304225
I would have included the entirety of that Chief Tecumseh quote in my signature line...but it is quite lengthy...which is also why I backed down from the Roosevelt "Man in the Arena" quote for something a tad more simple.

TO the other point...agreed! I can want to change something all day long...but until I change myself first, my moaning, complaining, and even logical reasoning is unlikely to change anyone else. If anything it tends to harden other's positions. Don't believe me...have a child! (Ok...don't go have a child just for these purposes, but you get my point). I can tell my 8 year old daughter to act a certain way until I am blue in the face! But...if I act the same way I am expecting her to act...she will simply pick up on my example and follow suit. It is amazing, but also quite frightening...as the little things about children that tend to annoy us are generally reflections of our own behaviors and attitudes which we refuse to acknowledge.

But then...a lot of this leads into my final post on the series...Part 10... ]]>FaithsWed, 18 Oct 2017 14:02:38 +0000Native American Jedi? -- FINAL -- Part 10 - Light up your Corner of the World - by: SamThifthttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/119733-native-american-jedi-final-part-10-light-up-your-corner-of-the-world#304221
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/119733-native-american-jedi-final-part-10-light-up-your-corner-of-the-world#304221Light up your corner of the world (by realizing the first peace)

The first peace, which is the most important,
Is that which comes within the souls of people
When they realize their relationship,
Their oneness, with the universe and all its powers,

And when they realize that at the center
Of the universe dwells Wakan-Taka (the Great Spirit),
And that this center is really everywhere, it is within each of us.
This is the real peace, and the others are but reflections of this.

The second peace is that which is made between two individuals,
And the third is that which is made between two nations.
But above all you should understand that there can never
Be peace between nations until there is known that true peace,
Which, as I have often said, is within the souls of men.

- Black Elk, Oglala Sioux & Spiritual Leader (1863 - 1950)

In Buddhism, it’s understood that the best way you can help others is by working on yourself.

This is what’s sometimes called “lighting up your corner of the world”, and it refers to the way you can inspire those you meet by the example you set and how this is more powerful than anything else you can do to help others. And it’s here that Black Elk is affirming that understanding through Native American wisdom.

But this doesn’t mean, “earn a bunch of money, gain a lot of power, and achieve greatness”, this refers to awakening to your true nature and finding true peace within, something that Black Elk understands clearly.

And again we’re brought back to realizing the ‘oneness’ of all things. He even draws a direct parallel to the Eastern wisdom of, “the center which is everywhere and in everything” (the way in which each of us feels like we’re the center of the universe, the universal perspective) in saying:

And when they realize that at the center Of the universe dwells Wakan-Taka (the Great Spirit),
And that this center is really everywhere, it is within each of us.

[From a blog post by Matt Valentine at Buddhaimonia.com]

*************

Commentary: When we look at the "outside world" today, we can readily find things that are disagreeable to us, and what we think the world "should" be like. Inequality, injustice, racism, violence, aggression, deceit, whatever it may be, however it may manifest itself, and wherever we may find it.

The natural instinct is a desire to change these things. Change how others act. Change laws, rules, regulations, or social institutions as a whole. Change how the rest of the world treats itself, to comport more with how we feel things ought to be. This is a rough path, and we are likely to frustrate ourselves further and further before we effectuate any substantial change on the thousands or millions of others.

The true trick behind any of our own thoughts on these issues is to effectuate change within ourselves first. Change how you see things, how you act, what you do, and where your path is heading. The ONE area we have immediate powers to perform any actual change is within ourselves, and ourselves only. Still, in doing so, we cannot simply decide upon taking action, signing petitions, writing letters, spreading the word, discussing the issues, bringing awareness, lobbying our elected officials. Here we are still not changing ourselves, but simply changing how we plan to change others.

In order to truly change anything in this world, through first changing ourselves, we have to recognize that one great spark at the center of everything. That inner inspiration you find to view an issue a certain way has a mirror at the center of the opposing viewpoint as well...an identical twin...a connected "oneness". As Jedi, we call this truth of universal interconnectedness of all things, The Force. Acknowledge and accept this first. Then CHANGE yourself. For as the mirror reflects, so to will the change in yourself eventually create change in the greater universe as well.

NOTE:This is the final installment of the "Native American Jedi" threads.]]>FaithsWed, 18 Oct 2017 13:22:03 +0000Samhain 2017 - by: jzenhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Pagan-studies/119684-samhain-2017?start=10#303873
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Pagan-studies/119684-samhain-2017?start=10#303873
A lot of the prayers are specific to Druidry, but can easily be adapted to one's own practice. Also, this rite can be condensed down as one sees fit. Rites in paganism can be looked at as guides and not a hard and fast way to practice. One can simple open the gates make offerings and give thanks, and then close everything back up. It need not last more than a few minutes if that is what is available to you. See what speaks to you about it (if you choose to practice the rite) and go from there. ]]>Pagan studiesFri, 13 Oct 2017 10:07:52 +0000The Nihang Sikhs and the Jedi - by: Arisaighttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Eastern-studies/119687-the-nihang-sikhs-and-the-jedi#303746
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Eastern-studies/119687-the-nihang-sikhs-and-the-jedi#303746Greetings and welcome! I've not had much contact with the Sikh in my path through life. I hope to learn more about them through your representation here. From what I understand of it, the Sikh path and Jedi path are quite similar, as you put it "Saint, Soldier, and Scholar".

The Force resides in all living things. The Earth, being the home to all known living things, is the Force. We are bound together intrinsically; unknowingly and knowingly.

A Zen master gathered his students for a sermon. As he opened his mouth a bird nearby sang. The Zen master smiled and proclaimed, "The sermon has been delivered."

We learn everything from nature, from each other (natural beings of the Earth). So listen, learn, and become one with the Force.

Thank you for sharing! (And beetee dubs, loving that Initiate bar! You deserve it!)]]>FaithsTue, 10 Oct 2017 15:28:12 +0000Renny's Bible Study - by: Rennyhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/119679-renny-s-bible-study#303581
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/119679-renny-s-bible-study#303581
After all, there may be no greater book that has impacted the culture, history and literature of the western world more.

Religions in and of themselves fascinate me and this one happens to be one of the most prominent ones in my country as well as the world. So I look forward to seeing what lessons and themes I can take away from reading it, as well as what insight I can gain about the people around me.

The Bible I will be using is the ESV (English Standard Version) study Bible.
This journal will serve as a place to organize and write down my thoughts as I make my way through the text.
I will try to analyze it as a piece of literature as well as thematically, philosophically and theologically.
Although I fear I will fail in some regard at times.

If anyone would like to share their own thoughts and interpretations or accompany me on this journey you are more then welcome.]]>Abrahamic studiesMon, 09 Oct 2017 17:51:31 +0000Chakras - by: OB1Shinobihttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Pagan-studies/11923-chakras#303382
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Pagan-studies/11923-chakras#303382
Thank you for sharing your excitement with us ]]>Pagan studiesSat, 07 Oct 2017 20:24:50 +0000Native American Jedi? Part 7 - Meditate to Gain Clarity, then Act with Courage - by: SamThifthttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/119644-native-american-jedi-part-7-meditate-to-gain-clarity-then-act-with-courage#303133
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/119644-native-american-jedi-part-7-meditate-to-gain-clarity-then-act-with-courage#303133Meditate to Gain Clarity, then Act with Courage

When you are in doubt, be still, and wait;
When doubt no longer exists for you, then go forward with courage.
So long as mists envelop you, be still;
Be still until the sunlight pours through and dispels the mists, as it surely will.
Then act with courage.

- Ponca Chief White Eagle (1800's to 1914)

This verse almost seems to suggest some form of meditation - sitting in silence - so it was particularly surprising to me.

When clouds exist within our mind, we have no way of knowing what the right action is to take. When we act during moments such as these, it can lead us to a lot of trouble.

Clarity in life is priceless, as without it you’re “flying blind” and are subject to the winds of chance. It’s wise to devote a part of your life to cultivating and maintaining great clarity, as this itself is what will lead you to peace and happiness.

And when you get there? Don’t hesitate. Know that you have the truth within you. Know that you’re ‘right’, and that what you’re doing is good. Stand up, move forward, and act with courage.

[From a blog post by Matt Valentine at Buddhaimonia.com]

*************

Commentary: While the quote itself seems to speak well to the old adage "Think before you Act", it is a bit deeper than that still. The OP links it to meditation. I do not completely see meditation as the sitting in a dark room, back straight, legs crossed, etc., etc., ... at least not always. But if we consider this quote, and apply it to how our own minds tend to work, we may find that it speaks more to active meditation, attention, focus, and being fully engaged with all our senses, constantly, and not allowing ourselves to be so easily influenced in "the moment" by the "emotions" or other factors surrounding us. When we do this, we can avoid fear. Fear of making a bad choice, fear of not acting quickly enough, or in the right way. Fear of doing something we might regret, or not doing something when we should have. These are the clouds which breed doubt. Courage breeds confidence.]]>FaithsThu, 05 Oct 2017 17:03:08 +0000Druid Orders that compliment your Pagan Force Studies - by: jzenhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Pagan-studies/107031-druid-orders-that-compliment-your-pagan-force-studies?start=20#302641
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Pagan-studies/107031-druid-orders-that-compliment-your-pagan-force-studies?start=20#302641

Lykeios wrote: Ah, cool. As good a way as any to be drawn toward a religious/spiritual practice.
Wow, a Hellenic Druid group? 0.o Interesting...

Yeah, they're called the "Oi Asproi Koukouvayies" (White Owls Kin). I don't know how active they are but it is a registered Kin on the website.

Well, I'm actually no longer "Jedi"...but when I was I actually sort of fit Jediism into my existing beliefs, so it was more like I used Jedi stuff in my Hellenic practice/beliefs.

Cool I'd love to hear how you did that. In mine, I see some overlap in both, but they still seem like pretty separate things to me. It's created a very tiered worldview for me...like different planes of existence sharing space. I haven't been very active in the forums here in the past, mostly because I didn't really think I had much to say. I like the solitary spirituality in that regard. I am trying to change that though and make more of a presence so that if anything, at least people know who I am when I say something hahahaha.
If you have any questions about ADF, I'll do my best to answer them. I'm going on my third year with them there, but like most religious or spiritual backgrounds, there's always lots of new stuff to discover and I certainly don't know everything, lol.

So are you planning on finishing your apprenticeship for knighthood and maintaining that kind of a presence here, or is this just a place to kinda hang out for you?]]>Pagan studiesSun, 01 Oct 2017 13:23:57 +0000Native American Jedi? Part 5 - Touch the Earth - by: Tarranhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/119583-native-american-jedi-part-5-touch-the-earth#302287
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/119583-native-american-jedi-part-5-touch-the-earth#302287

SamThift wrote: Tarran:

What a wonderful suggestion...I think I might just try that! It may be another month or so before I get back out to the woods...but it sounds like a very interesting experience! I'll keep you posted.

If you saw a similar thread that long ago, it was not of my design. I only recently joined (May 2017), and have been posting a few of these nuggets over the past couple weeks, based upon a blog post I randomly found. The previous 4 or so should be towards the top of that "Faith" forum under the index at the top.

Cheers

Sam

Roger that - will give 'em a looksy! ^_^

While I'm at it here, if you like blog posts about the Force, might I offer a look into one of mine? I write often in a spiritual tone, in a spiritual sense, on spiritual things - however, in the particular blog of which I now speak (though not absolutely devoid of spirit), those writings are largely analytical and leaning more towards science (for lack of a better term), or well, perhaps I should say "Alchemy" lol You can find it linked on my profile page here, but it seems that the link will only work if you omit the "s" in the "https" part of the URL (damn you, Google Blogger lol).

Like the grasses showing tender faces to each other, Thus should we do.
For this was the wish of the Grandfathers of the World.

- Black Elk

Another simple but very powerful message. The message couldn’t be simpler: show kindness to others.

Anything said other than that would be to complicate things, so I’ll keep it at that.

[From a blog post by Matt Valentine at Buddhaimonia.com]

*************

Commentary: The OP here differed to let the words speak for themselves, and I do not see much point of ruining that trend.]]>FaithsTue, 26 Sep 2017 19:45:03 +0000Native American Jedi? Part 4 - Gross National….Peace? - by: Kyrin Wyldstarhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/119570-native-american-jedi-part-4-gross-national-peace?start=10#301979
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/119570-native-american-jedi-part-4-gross-national-peace?start=10#301979

SamThift wrote: I remain curious, in part, as to whether the competition for needs in the survival (food/shelter) sense, related to joy, pain, or otherwise, is the only avenue towards the perceived ultimate joyful state of losing our sense of self which we seek to attain?

Should we be victorious in this competition mentality you offer, where a pleasure driven or joyful state is achieved through success and gains of the worldly sense, is that the final measurement of our victory? Or does this competition equate to a more interpersonal victory of self...where survival is assumed, and we are focusing those efforts more in the development of our character, and not the needs or desires of our physical estate?
******
It remains more the point in my view that the original quote sought to focus our aspirations of happiness or peace not upon material gains, but spiritual ones

I think it is both, hence the need for the balance. We have to always offset the attainment of milestones with the enjoyment of those milestones. Milestones in this sense is an intermediary between success and not-success - however we define it. That could be through the attainment of food/shelter or spiritual enlightenment. Sometimes the competition is external and sometimes its internal. The universal factor in all this is the competition itself.

We want to be safe and sheltered and we want our families and those we care about to have those things as well. But internally we also compete with ourselves. Are we good enough, are we liked enough, are we talented enough, do we have enough knowledge? Confidence in these things is a constant competition through internal dialogue.

Why do we struggle to obtain knowledge in the pursuit of enlightenment? So we can perceive ourselves to be in a better place than we were before. But the fight is always there in the form of self challenge. What we must do is balance that fight with the acceptance that there are no true goals, (no such thing as final success) only markers on a path. And if we don't stop to spend time at those markers (milestones) to experience the joy in obtaining that place, we are missing out on half of the experience. In effect if we fail to see the reason for the struggle in competition (Joy) that is when the competition becomes futile.]]>FaithsThu, 21 Sep 2017 20:38:15 +0000If others thought you were a God... - by: Lykeioshttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Pagan-studies/108643-if-others-thought-you-were-a-god?start=10#301833
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Pagan-studies/108643-if-others-thought-you-were-a-god?start=10#301833

Kit wrote: haha I think it'd be fun to play with this. I know this was originally aimed at others picking out aspects but in lieu of that, what about we picking our own out? Who here is our God of CAT5? Our Goddess of Excel? Our Lord of Paint? Lady of the Weights? Do we have a Goddess of the Stars? God of the Kitchen? Father of Words? Mother of Beasts?

What's your passion? What part of the Divine shines through you? If you were part of a pantheon, what would your aspects be?

I bet you can guess what I am

Now, what about you?

Haha! That does look like fun! And since no one is playing the game in the OP...

Hahaha. That WAS fun! Thanks, Kit!]]>Pagan studiesTue, 19 Sep 2017 04:55:16 +0000Native American Jedi? Part 3 - Serve, Respect, and Live Without Fear - by: SamThifthttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/119564-native-american-jedi-part-3-serve-respect-and-live-without-fear#301797
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/119564-native-american-jedi-part-3-serve-respect-and-live-without-fear#301797Serve, Respect, and Live Without Fear

So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart.
Trouble no one about their religion;
Respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours.
Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life.

Seek to make your life long and its purpose in the service of your people.
Prepare a noble death song for the day when you go over the great divide.
Always give a word or a sign of salute when meeting or passing a friend,
Even a stranger, when in a lonely place.
Show respect to all people and grovel to none.

When you arise in the morning give thanks for the food and for the joy of living.
If you see no reason for giving thanks, the fault lies only in yourself.

Abuse no one and no thing, for abuse turns the wise ones to fools
And robs the spirit of its vision.

When it comes your time to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled
With the fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep
And pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way.
Sing your death song and die like a hero going home.

- Chief Tecumseh (Crouching Tiger) Shawnee Nation 1768-1813

To say anything here I think would be to complicate the already perfect message that this communicates.
So I’ll leave it at that: serve, respect, and live without fear.

[From a blog post by Matt Valentine at Buddhaimonia.com]

*************

Commentary: I can hardly find a single point offered by Chief Tecumseh which would not seem like a statement which could be specifically applied to how a Jedi should approach life. Serve, Respect, and Live Without Fear. How wonderful are these thoughts?]]>FaithsMon, 18 Sep 2017 16:22:49 +0000Native American Jedi? Part 2 - Realize “Oneness” - by: SamThifthttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/119551-native-american-jedi-part-2-realize-oneness#301632
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/119551-native-american-jedi-part-2-realize-oneness#301632Realize "Oneness"

And while I stood there I saw more than I can tell, And I understood more than I saw;
For I was seeing in a sacred manner The shapes of things in the spirit, And the
shape of all shapes as they must Live together like one being
- Black Elk, Black Elk Speaks

The sense of our “oneness” is something spoken about across all cultures. This sense is very much intuitive, and can be developed with practice.

Here, Black Elk speaks almost Zen-like in referring to seeing more than he can tell. A very deep insight into the nature of existence, and it’s clear here that Native American wisdom was very deep and very profound.

In our everyday lives, we encounter this same intuitive feeling of “oneness” as well, albeit most of the time it’s far more subtle. During these moments, it’s important to not identify this feeling as nonsense and realize that it’s our ability to connect with the greater truth of existence on a deeper level.

We are one, like a large organism. And in the same way that organs, tissue, veins, nerves, and the other parts that make up our body can sometimes seem separate, but are always very much an inseparable part of the same one greater system, we too are intrinsically connected and should live in a way that we become more and more aware of this interconnected nature and seek to express it in our daily lives.

And this always results in more love, compassion, kindness, and greater peace.

[From a blog post by Matt Valentine at Buddhaimonia.com]

*************

Commentary: We as Jedi have found the universe to be inherently interconnected to the Nth degree through the Force, and I do not just mean through Obi-Wan's quotable explanation. We can see the imprint of ourselves upon everything we interact with, we can feel the imprint of all we interact with upon ourselves. We share common pains, joys, frustrations, and victories with all matters of our universe. We have come from the Universe through the Force, and will return through the Force to the Universe. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.

If I recall this passage from Black Elk Speaks correctly, he was referring to the dream he had as a nine year old boy. Incredibly powerful to become aware of such things at that age. No, Black Elk did not fully understand all of his dream at that age, and most of it he never quite fully understood. This is not to say he did not try, or that he did not appreciate the power of what he did understand.

So when we ourselves are out and about in daily life, lets look for these sensations of "oneness". Lets keep ourselves open to that intuitive spark that resonates across all things through the Force, that proves to us the interconnectedness of all things. It is there. We may not always feel it, we may not always sense it, and we may not fully understand the complexity of it all. Black Elk never gave up to recant on what he had been shown through his dreams, even in the face of invasion and oppression of his people. I can hardly think of worse conditions I might find myself in when trying to develop my own understanding of the Force. Could you?]]>FaithsFri, 15 Sep 2017 11:24:38 +0000Native American Jedi? Part 1 - Enter the Sacred Space - by: SamThifthttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/119542-native-american-jedi-part-1-enter-the-sacred-space#301554
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/119542-native-american-jedi-part-1-enter-the-sacred-space#301554

Adder wrote: I just have the biological view on it, that its the moment of most oxygenation, which would allow a shift in focus away from needing to breath (therefore slight relaxation in that regard), plus invigorates the heart which itself is a big important part of the nervous system. To a small extent also it allows one to relate to an important an ongoing automatic process and as such brings one closer to their own subconscious, and the subsequent trend to hypoxia does strengthen that, at a real risk. So all in all there is some merit to meditative work there for sure, but I tend to think the cognitive experience of the spiritual emerges from the balance of movement, not the holding of it to highlite its dynamism.

Note: condition met with thanks

Agreed. The interesting point to me was more this: I only recently, as in the past 4-5 months, have become aware of this in-breath/out-breath moment. I originally struggled to find it. When practicing only breathing, focusing on nothing else, my ins & outs felt controlled, monitored, and measured. Only more recently did I discover that it is not the intent of the practice to control ones breath and pause at the in/out moment, but simply to recognize it the instant it arrives during normal unassisted and daily-automated-breath.

It seems mostly to be a notion relegated strictly to Eastern thought, and I have not seen evidence (nor have I looked for any) that there is a lineage of similar practice in Western (insert Christian or not, it doesn't matter) thought. So to find a stark similarity in Native American beliefs, I was somewhat excited.

I have found various other suggestions of the Native American spiritual centers being identical to those of the Indian Chakras, etc., and I am aware of suggestions that Eastern civilizations may have visited the Americas centuries or longer before Columbus. More similarities exist...should it interest anyone in the next segment I offer on this series.]]>FaithsThu, 14 Sep 2017 15:30:06 +0000Theological Challenge - by: Lykeioshttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/119452-theological-challenge#300254
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/119452-theological-challenge#300254

Alethea Thompson wrote: That's really too bad. The challenge is more about finding a meaningful reason to tell the story of creation. If there is none, then why have a creation myth at all? To explain the birth so people will shut up about it?

I've met a few indigenous spiritual leaders which say that their tribe's creation myths have a plethora of hidden meaning. They have health tips woven into them, information meant to help their tribes find value in their own lives, etc.

The point of using the Jedi Philosophy is to gain a new way of exploring how our modern views connect with our ancestors views.

Since you won't relate it to the Jedi Path,let me ask you: What value is there to be found in the Greek Creation myth? Or is it just some story so people will stop asking how the gods were given dominion over nature?

I always related the "creation" myth (creation in quotes because I don't think the Greek myth really speaks to creation) to scientific principles such as the Big Bang theory. Without stretching too much I take the beginning where all was chaos to be the universe before the "Big Bang." The earth/Gaia then came out of the Big Bang/big expansion. I know this is not how the original tellings of it were intended, but it is my modern interpretation.

I don't need to relate everything back to Jediism or Force realism for it to have meaning. On the other hand, it isn't like I go around telling people about the myth. I only mention it if the subject comes up (like in this thread).

The way I relate the myth to Jediism? Well the only thing I used to do to relate the two is to say that the Force is the power source of the Gods. They have access to its power in some way and use it to oversee the earth/universe. As anthropomorphic representations of natural phenomena/natural places the Gods wield the power of nature which, to me, is the Force.

Why have a creation myth if I don't spread it around and tell people about it? For myself. It is a part of my beliefs and I don't need to tell others about them to give them meaning and importance.]]>FaithsFri, 01 Sep 2017 20:17:46 +0000How should I handle this situation? - by: thomaswfaulknerhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/119027-how-should-i-handle-this-situation?start=10#295498
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/119027-how-should-i-handle-this-situation?start=10#295498

In my opinion, its difficult to control the actions of others, so it's on us to change the way we see and respond to a situation. Take power in what you can do and engage in conversations with your children about everyone's beliefs. I'm sure your children will appreciate it more if you remain open and honest about the range of beliefs and didn't draw religious boundaries between their circle of support. Try to convince all parties to be understanding of the situation in order to preserve the family peace and the adults role within the family system. At the end of the day, children are going to believe thousands of things before they settle on what they think is right. Positively encouraging them to make those choices it's beneficial to a healthy development.

The term shamanism has been used to label many old anima traditions across the world. As such, there are many different ways to practice. Written here is my understanding and practices which may differ from other cultures. In short, shamanism is the communion with the spirits for benefit of yourself, your community, and the world.

Shamanic Journeys:
The practitioner will go into a trance, often with the aid of darkness, drums, rattles, incense, and in some cultures, careful use of sacred drugs. Their spirit will leave their body and travel to one of the spirit worlds of their choice, or where they are drawn to.

The Three Spirit Worlds
Shamanism recognizes three spirit worlds. The Upper World, where deities and human spirits reside. The Middle World which is an overlay of our own where you can speak to the spirits of plants, rocks, or any other physical thing. You can also find the spirits who work the changing of the seasons, or otherwise involved in our world. It’s also said this is where a practitioner can find lost objects, water, or good hunting (I haven’t tested this). In Lower World (or Under World) you’ll encounter animal spirits. These are the words where these particular kinds of spirits reside, but they can travel between them.

Animal Spirits
These spirits aren’t the spirits of a particular animal, but rather the accumulation of all the experience, wisdom, and knowledge of all the animals it represents. You can encounter the spirits of ANY animal, extinct, mythological, or currently living. They all have several aspects they represent and have their own teachings to offer.

Power Animals:
It’s believed that when a person is born, at least one Animal Spirit chooses them to be their guide and guardian throughout their life. A Power Animal is the Animal Spirit that chooses the individual and represents them. If they are sought out, The Power Animal will actively teach, or simply provide comfort when needed. These can be any animal, living, extinct, or myth. And an individual can have more than one Power Animal.

Shamanic Practitioners:
The name taken by those who follow some form of shamanic belief and practice. Often going on journeys and speaking with their power animals or other spirits.

Shaman:
Shaman is a title that is granted, and not claimed. Much as the titles of Master or Guru. In many traditions a shaman has faced death, either in a tragic accident, sickness, or mental illness. They are often relied on as healers, and only one who has experienced pain, can truly heal it. Shaman are called by the spirits, often in dreams or visions. They are taught either by another shaman who has recognized what they are, or by the spirits themselves if another shaman isn’t available. They can be taught both by their Power Animal, and by the spirits of shaman of the past.

The origins of the word shaman seems to be contested, but my favorite definition is “One Who Sees in the Dark”. I feel it’s both a reference to journeying in the darkness, and being able to navigate the dark times in life to bring themselves or others hope.]]>Pagan studiesWed, 12 Jul 2017 22:41:42 +0000Study Japanese? - by: vladucardhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Eastern-studies/118659-study-japanese?start=10#289719
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Eastern-studies/118659-study-japanese?start=10#289719]]>Eastern studiesThu, 06 Jul 2017 21:38:48 +0000Christian Jedi Journal - by: rrhodes67https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/118343-christian-jedi-journal?start=10#285057
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/118343-christian-jedi-journal?start=10#285057Abrahamic studiesWed, 24 May 2017 13:30:19 +0000This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own go - by: ZealotXhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/116566-this-is-incontrovertible-proof-that-god-is-evil-god-does-not-live-by-his-own-go?start=70#282789
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/116566-this-is-incontrovertible-proof-that-god-is-evil-god-does-not-live-by-his-own-go?start=70#282789

Magnus Staar wrote: If by "God" you mean the Abrahamic God, then you should be aware that good and evil are defined by Him, that is, good is his will, evil is anything else.

Which makes anything He does inherently good. He is above the Law.

There is no such thing as above the law in regards to good and evil.

The God of Moses was Moses. Fortunately, God was invisible and never spoke out loud. This made it incredibly easy for someone to simply say that God spoke to them. There were many who didn't believe Moses and for that... he killed them. If all the people willing to exercise free speech were getting killed one can imagine an environment in which everyone who might have protested would have restrained themselves or kept it to private conversation; nothing that would appear in or challenge the bible.

With everything that Jesus said in the NT about hypocrites it is not possible that God himself would, having so much presumed intellect, be a hypocrite and couldn't find non-invasive, non-destructive, non-immoral ways of handling problems. For instance, a solution to the question of where the Hebrews should live... if you were human your mind would be limited to places you know of. If you don't believe God can/will perform miracles then you might have to fight for land. However, if God were real, and making these decisions, why not terraform the desert? Does anyone think the Creator wouldn't be able to turn a desert into a tropical paradise if he chose to? If he parted the Red Sea surely he could create a river and vegetation at will. But what we see in the bible is a Donald Trump like God who is ineffectual at getting his agenda done. So instead he "does evil". Even in doing evil in reaction to humans... what does that do except teach us that war is okay? That capital punishment is okay?]]>FaithsTue, 02 May 2017 19:03:00 +0000Is recognition that Jews have the best ideology of the Abrahamic cults the reaso - by: Arisaighttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/116516-is-recognition-that-jews-have-the-best-ideology-of-the-abrahamic-cults-the-reaso?start=60#282788
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/116516-is-recognition-that-jews-have-the-best-ideology-of-the-abrahamic-cults-the-reaso?start=60#282788

ZealotX wrote: They hate each other only because they don't understand each other.

Hate seems like a strong word in this case. Any Christian that hates another is a hypocrite by their own standards.

ZealotX wrote: Christians claim Jesus was Christian.

Seems a bit narsasistic of him, dontcha think? He was known as "King of the Jews", a majority know him as Jewish, I know of no learned Christian that claims Jesus was a Christian.

ZealotX wrote: And instead of learning how to become legendary followers often learn only to obey those who claim to have more authority to speak for their shared notion of God.

Become "legendary"? I've never known a man to activly seek to become "legendary". They may strive to catch Legendary Pokemon, but not to become themselves "legendary". To become "legendary" seems like a childish goal, if you ask me, and goes against what the Jedi stand for so would in itself be counterproductive to our faith amongst many others.]]>FaithsTue, 02 May 2017 19:00:59 +0000Questions for Christians of the site - by: ZealotXhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/116019-questions-for-christians-of-the-site?start=20#282784
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/116019-questions-for-christians-of-the-site?start=20#282784
I'm like you. I was a devout Christian and it was reading more that turned me away. That's slightly inaccurate I think though, because one can read the bible and simply accept all the good and reject all the bad. It takes a certain level of critical thinking to really judge the bible and many believers, present company not included, are afraid to do that. I'd like to address your questions from a perspective of someone who understands where you're coming from.

1. Your first question, to me, isn't a simple answer because there are verses in the bible that give one the impression that our lives have been "pre-ordained" and so we are only acting out what "God knew" we were always going to do. Secondly, the notion that I'm going to hell is based on my belief that it exists. That belief is based on believing humans, not God. God never told me any of this. He never told me anything and yet my salvation is supposed to be on the line. The thought that I have to have blind faith in humans to tell the truth about an invisible entity or else I am damned, to me, is ridiculous and intellectually dishonest. No deity in their right mind would make salvation into a game that one only wins by having blind faith in other humans and their version of the story. And if I fail to trust these men who were often barbaric and drunken with power then God always knew I was going to fail? Like... that's MY fault?

2. This is a question of morality and the fact is that religious people tend to base their idea of morality, their foundation of what is right and wrong, upon their most moral example. The ironic thing is that for Christians their heighest example of morality is probably Jesus, not "God the Father". When God does things that contradict our current understanding of morality people tend to make excuses and say "he's God so whatever he does is okay". People treat God like a nice slavemaster. Because he's nice the "slave" part is silent. And critical thinkers are like... "but he's still a slavemaster though". Morality shouldn't be something that changes based on how much power one has. You know who thinks that way the most? Evil people. Evil justifies what it does based on its ability to do it. One of the worst arguments I've ever heard for slavery and the theft of America was that they "won"... or in other words, they had the power to do what they did. Might does NOT make right in my book. In fact, it is the duty of those with the most power to fight for those without any and to use their power for good. Often children are killed in the bible just to make a point or just to strike fear into people's hearts or just to make sure another nation couldn't come back for revenge because they had no good reason to attack them. So they were different. So they worshipped other gods. These are reasons to murder them? Of course it's not "murder" when God tells you to do it. I feel like these contradictions help to retard people's sense of morality.

3. Well of course in order to intervene you'd have to exist. But in their mind he does intervene but in ways that I find disturbing. Basic superstition says that if you ask God to help you do X and the situation turns out favorable then God indeed intervened. We completely negate the possibility of chance, probability, coincidence, or your own human intervention making it happen. No, it's almost like there is a negative force that always acts against your interest so that unless another spiritual power works in your favor that outcome simply cannot happen. My problem is why not intervene for everyone based on their need? In other words, I don't even feel like asking you to help me until you help the homeless and the hungry and the people suffering from disease. They need help far more than I do and yet my mother informs me that anything good that happens to me it's because she's been praying on my behalf. If that's how it works then that's a messed up system. The bible says God rains blessings down on everyone alike and his eye is on the sparrow. I work in a building that has a bunch of mirrored outer walls. Little birds fly into them and break their necks. Yet we are supposed to live in a fantasy where nothing bad ever happens to the sparrows when all of nature consumes each other for their own survival.

4. Someone said this was a metaphor in defense of it. Yes... it is a metaphor. Pharoah's heart wasn't literally hardened. What it means is that he was influenced by God to reject the calls to free the people in order so God could do miracles to scare people into submission. If it were purely up to Pharaoh he would have been reasonable. How? Because if he wasn't going to be reasonable there would have been no need to harden his heart. So what was done was so that God could show off his powers; or rather... in reality the writer was writing from hindsight and knew that these events could not have been thwarted. One plague led to another such that there couldn't be any natural interruption. The writer was simply linking catastrophic events to God because people believed "supernatural" events were the work of the gods. But today we assume these events were "super" natural because that's what they beleived. It is more likely that Exodus involved a volcanic eruption which caused a cloud by day and a pillar of fire visible at night. But they didn't know what this was or what caused it to happen. Therefore, to them, it was "supernatural". And this helps to reveal who really wrote the bible and what their intentions were. It is a man-made book that is right as often as we are right and wrong as often as we are wrong. It is man pretending to be God in order to exercise power over other men. That power... because they are using the authority of a deity, gives them more power than a king for all who believe them. That's why as some believe the most powerful men in this world were kings and dictators, I disagree. I think it was always men of the priesthood who claimed to speak for the gods. This kind of authority allowed men like Moses to commit genocide without mainstream recognition of the act. Because we're blinded by anyone claiming to have the authority of God on their side. Why? Because we're afraid of God. Moses killed everyone who wouldn't follow him. That's actually what happened. But because he spake for God he was simply doing God's will and "purifying" his fellow Hebrews.]]>FaithsTue, 02 May 2017 18:33:56 +0000Gedi - by: user15542https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/117921-gedi?start=20#280382
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/117921-gedi?start=20#280382

Streen wrote: "He who knows does not speak; he who speaks does not know". Ya know?

Aharon wrote: God's not looking out for us? He is omnipresent and omnipotent, so why not?

But I get your point. He lets bad things happen. It isn't his fault. We screwed up the world, not Him.

And of course we have the power to screw up his plan and he is powerless to fix it, because that omnipotence thing you mentioned as recently as the previous line is all but forgotten now. Or, alterntively, what ever we call "screwed up" was his plan all along and... well, do I even need to add on to that any more?

There is a reason the problem of evil (or suffering, to keep it a tad more modern) is still being brought up, millennia after Epicurus. Whether we accept it or not, if we have a set of premises that are contrary, their conjunction is false, no matter how many more assumptions we try and add to the mix.]]>Abrahamic studiesFri, 31 Mar 2017 22:23:32 +0000Ruach Hakodesh - by: User22414https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/115203-ruach-hakodesh?start=10#277611
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/115203-ruach-hakodesh?start=10#277611
spiritualmusclehead.wordpress.com/2014/0...-vs-the-holy-spirit/
]]>Abrahamic studiesSun, 05 Mar 2017 11:28:57 +0000Resources For People Curious About Shinto - by: jzenhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Eastern-studies/117492-resources-for-people-curious-about-shinto#276285
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Eastern-studies/117492-resources-for-people-curious-about-shinto#276285

J. K. Barger wrote: Very cool!

I had the fortune to be an intern at Tsubaki Amerika Jinja, so if you or anyone else is curious about Shinto, I too am a reference

Hopefully I'll be able to contribute what I learned here in some form or another.

Oh wow! I follow them on Facebook, but I wouldn't know where to start with Shinto. I'll PM you because I'm curious about it ]]>Eastern studiesThu, 16 Feb 2017 14:18:42 +0000Confucianism, Buddhism, and Taoism explained in a short story - by: jzenhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Eastern-studies/117310-confucianism-buddhism-and-taoism-explained-in-a-short-story#273524
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Eastern-studies/117310-confucianism-buddhism-and-taoism-explained-in-a-short-story#273524 Thank you for sharing!]]>Eastern studiesTue, 24 Jan 2017 19:21:27 +0000Confessions of a Secular Jesus Follower by Tom Krattenmaker - by: Alethea Thompsonhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/116291-confessions-of-a-secular-jesus-follower-by-tom-krattenmaker#273140
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/116291-confessions-of-a-secular-jesus-follower-by-tom-krattenmaker#273140

]]>Abrahamic studiesSun, 22 Jan 2017 01:44:42 +0000Sithism - by: Reijihttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/117204-sithism#272246
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/117204-sithism#272246
The essence of being a Sith is to break any chains of limitations in your life through personal improvement, sacrifice, rebirth and seeking your Passion in life.

Here are some good sites that I recommend if you want to learn more about Sithism.

Ya, makes me think that one could view the interconnections of those things as being the experience/action of reverence. Such that we all have those things already, but training tends to exercise ways of connecting to them in practical ways, and seems to most often occur in the direction of ground->path->fruit for some reason to familiarize in stronger ways to allow more effective and accessible focus.... probably because if the fruit sits on the ground it will rot

I like move better then pass, another one could be flow. Thanks for the post!!]]>Abrahamic studiesSat, 07 Jan 2017 02:30:09 +0000The Value of the Solstice - by: Alethea Thompsonhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/116846-the-value-of-the-solstice#269343
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Faiths/116846-the-value-of-the-solstice#269343

^ This is a short introduction to the Persian Festival of Yalda and how our ancestors tried to inspire us to live for the future against the odds.]]>FaithsWed, 21 Dec 2016 19:48:21 +0000Right view, or cynicism? - by: Sarissah Sojournerhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Eastern-studies/116660-right-view-or-cynicism#267343
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Eastern-studies/116660-right-view-or-cynicism#267343

OB1Shinobi wrote: hi Sarissa, its good to see you again

[/i]i dont think this is a very good explanation of right view - actually it sounds just like the sales pitch for scientology

id encourage you not to stop there either; if you really want to understand buddhism, spend a lot of time on each of the concepts with multiple sources

Thanks for the links, I appreciate it.

OB1Shinobi wrote: as for the rest, honestly it just sounds like SJW /marxist style over simplification to me

civilization is way more than the oppression of the proletariat by the ruling class, but you can certainly choose to view it that way if youd like

No, I choose to view it as it really is, and it's going to be a long process of evolution for me because I admit, I'm not well educated on much of anything.]]>Eastern studiesTue, 06 Dec 2016 02:06:56 +0000Reading the Quran - by: Gisteronhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/113815-reading-the-quran#267164
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Abrahamic-studies/113815-reading-the-quran#267164

rvrdncr1 wrote: To begin, you should keep in mind that the Qur'an is not chronological. The order of the surahs (chapters/books) are not important. The first surah was not the first one revealed. So, don't try to look for any type of chronology when reading the Qur'an.

Why is so atrocious when Jews simply recite their scriptures out of order but the Qur'an is not merely just fine but indeed nothing short of perfect, being written out of order?

Secondly, the Qur'an is meant to be paired with the hadith (practices and beliefs of the prophet). The Qur'an is kind of like a general attitude guide whereas the hadith is more like a behavioral guide. You'll probably notice that there are very many details in the Qur'an.

Is that really so clear? It seems to be a widespread view among scholars and most denominations of Islam, but the book itself heavily implies that it is sufficient as is, and that any and all instructions not stated in it are to be disregarded. Of course it also commands to follow and obey the Messenger. The confusion and disagreements that follow are trivial to explain, but why would we say that one opinion on this is more accurate than the other?

Third, the Qur'an was revealed in pieces, a couple verses at a time, in response to whatever was happening in the society at that time. Unlike the Bible, the Qur'an does not claim to be a literal guide through time. Some advice given in the verses were for specific events that were occurring then, and may no longer be relevant in today's age. We just take the main idea from whatever is written and don't get bogged down with the details.

I have two verses here claiming that it was revealed within a night, one verse saying that the Qur'an was revealed during the month of Ramadan. There are also verses confirming what you said, but how do we tell which, if any, are accurate? A similar question goes to what you said after that in the passage quoted above. Are you correct or wrong about the Qur'an being time-specific? On the one hand it says that it can be abrogated by God, but on the other it also says that it is perfect and mustn't be altered, and that God himself is likewise unchanging. I understand that we cannot accept a statement and its opposite at the same time and in the same way, but why do we pick the ones we do as opposed to the respective alternatives?

Fourth, as I'm sure you're aware, the actual Qur'an is written in Arabic. Unless you are reading the Arabic text, you are not reading the Qur'an. You are reading someone's translation of the Qur'an. Arabic is an incredibly rich language and many of the concepts are hard to translate into English. In order to more fully understand the meaning of any verse, you might want to read 3 or 4 translations and get your own idea of the actual message.

Fifth, you will find many verses that are just 'nonsense' words. For example, the first verse of the second surah is "Alif. Lam. Meem." That seems like nonesense, but those are three Arabic letters. Together they also don't make any sense in Arabic. It is believed that these verses will make sense as language progresses.

Just checking whether I understand this correctly. You say that the actual Qur'an is written in Arabic. I'll set aside that modern Arabic isn't quite the same as ancient Arabic and that the Qur'an is written and recited in the latter because translating it and adapting it to modern languages would be a corruption. And on top of all of that you say it is believed that the opening verses of a number of Surahs are really written in neither modern nor ancient Arabic, but rather in some sort of future Arabic and would be understood by neither ancient nor modern scholars, but by future ones who for all we know might understand the ancient Arabic modern scholars are already struggling with all the worse. As a follow up question, do you hold that the Qur'an is meant to be understood in its entirety by any generation of people at all? If yes, then why is it made so that none would? If no, then what is its purpose?]]>Abrahamic studiesSun, 04 Dec 2016 15:13:04 +0000Taoism: Is it what I think? - by: Adderhttps://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Eastern-studies/104218-taoism-is-it-what-i-think?start=20#266672
https://templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Eastern-studies/104218-taoism-is-it-what-i-think?start=20#266672

Xiam wrote: Still new to some of this, but uh... while I'm sure practitioners of Ch'an/Zen may acknowledge this to some extent, seems odd to use the eightfold path for Taoism. Seems a bit too intellectual for them, in a way.

The tao that can be told
is not the eternal Tao

Yea, haha, I tend to think Taoism is not about finding the path but walking the path, while Buddhism has a lot more on finding the path... to the extent Taoism on the surface almost appears as a doctrine of non-doctrine, because lets face it one can indeed sometimes make it by faking it. But I feel that would be misrepresenting the experiential essence of Taoism - something which complexity covers over, but Buddhism helps wipe away. So modern human draped in artifice, sees that these views or systems more succinctly serve the experience of living a rewarding experience, rather then constantly living in a place where articulations of desire and demand constitute truth. Then the question becomes what is that experiential essence, is it hidden, do I lack it, how might I lack it, what would it be anyway. So yea, I think Buddhism uses tools to manifest/reveal the essence, while Taoism is more specifically about living with the essence (the Tao). So I don't see too much problem using both Buddhism and Taoism together personally..]]>Eastern studiesWed, 30 Nov 2016 00:47:22 +0000