Precious Roy's Horse Dividers:I hate to agree with Joe in any way, but in my little corner of NEPA the local government is largely Democrats and this is the most racist area I have ever lived in. That said, Sam is a major league dickbag, and my experience is with local politics in Pennsyltucky and likely does not reflect the national landscape.

There's some of that in my slice of the NY southern tier (including the racism), but the difference is that there seems to be some kind of Illuminati conspiracy to keep the local Dems in power, because the Republicans are always far more visible and vocal around here and I believe they are in the majority somehow.

From what I've seen over the last five years of living here though, they're both shiat. The area continues to slide due to brain-drain, and I doubt either party can stop it without a miracle.

WizardofToast:Marcus Aurelius: "Unquestionably white Democrats are the most racist people I've ever met, and they have infected black Democrats. The irony is that black Democrats will one day realize the racism from their white handlers and, blacks will bite the hand that feeds them. Unfortunately America will likely be bankrupt when it happens"

I don't even know where to begin with that statement.

Slavery analogy and the implication that black people are stupid. How do you write that and not think "Wait, that's really farking stupid and racist to say."?

SauronWasFramed:mrshowrules: fake namefake jobfake stupid question for the President

Honestly, I don't know why he doesn't run for leadership of the GOP, he represents their integrity perfectly.

yet he was given a royal anal exam by the left because obama answered his question honestly.

/his driver's license was made public, that he was a plumber apprentice was made public. why? because the left seethed at his nerve to ask a stupid question to a faker candidate.

/lesson learned? Unless you want people digging through your garbage for 5 weeks, you had better not question a democrat unless it is "boxers or briefs".

//had the media and rabid leftist let this guy alone, he would not be a news item today, would he. but they had to teach the proletariat minions a lesson, didn't they.

Uh no. The reason he became a news item was because John McCain brought him up 50 bajillion times during the third presidential debate and intentionally used him as a prop for his campaign. The media focus did not come in until after that. But thanks for playing.

Honestly, I don't know why he doesn't run for leadership of the GOP, he represents their integrity perfectly.

yet he was given a royal anal exam by the left because obama answered his question honestly.

/his driver's license was made public, that he was a plumber apprentice was made public. why? because the left seethed at his nerve to ask a stupid question to a faker candidate.

/lesson learned? Unless you want people digging through your garbage for 5 weeks, you had better not question a democrat unless it is "boxers or briefs".

//had the media and rabid leftist let this guy alone, he would not be a news item today, would he. but they had to teach the proletariat minions a lesson, didn't they.

Uh no. The reason he became a news item was because John McCain brought him up 50 bajillion times during the third presidential debate and intentionally used him as a prop for his campaign. The media focus did not come in until after that. But thanks for playing.

Righties are cute when they get embarrassed by the retarded dwarves their "movement" spawns. They get all indignant and pretend that liberals invented them or something.

Smeggy Smurf:He has a point. How many Democrats believe that blacks cannot compete with whites on a level playing field? It's all about affirmative action and quotas as though the color of your skin actually matter if you're capable of doing the job or not. Soft racism of low expectations is still racism.

How about acknowledgement of things which disproportionately affect people of different races? Such as the incarceration rates and sentence lengths of people of different races, the 4th Amendment violations of "stop and frisk", demands for proof of citizenship, high school graduation rates, sentencing differences between powder and rock cocaine, and poverty?

I think he problem is that one side truly believes that there is a "level playing field", the other acknowledges the fact that there are differences and actually works to make it level.

ox45tallboy:Smeggy Smurf: He has a point. How many Democrats believe that blacks cannot compete with whites on a level playing field? It's all about affirmative action and quotas as though the color of your skin actually matter if you're capable of doing the job or not. Soft racism of low expectations is still racism.

How about acknowledgement of things which disproportionately affect people of different races? Such as the incarceration rates and sentence lengths of people of different races, the 4th Amendment violations of "stop and frisk", demands for proof of citizenship, high school graduation rates, sentencing differences between powder and rock cocaine, and poverty?

I think he problem is that one side truly believes that there is a "level playing field", the other acknowledges the fact that there are differences and actually works to make it level.

You can't reason with a person who was born on third base, and whose fragile self-esteem requires that they pretend they hit a triple.

jso2897:ox45tallboy: Smeggy Smurf: He has a point. How many Democrats believe that blacks cannot compete with whites on a level playing field? It's all about affirmative action and quotas as though the color of your skin actually matter if you're capable of doing the job or not. Soft racism of low expectations is still racism.

How about acknowledgement of things which disproportionately affect people of different races? Such as the incarceration rates and sentence lengths of people of different races, the 4th Amendment violations of "stop and frisk", demands for proof of citizenship, high school graduation rates, sentencing differences between powder and rock cocaine, and poverty?

I think he problem is that one side truly believes that there is a "level playing field", the other acknowledges the fact that there are differences and actually works to make it level.

You can't reason with a person who was born on third base, and whose fragile self-esteem requires that they pretend they hit a triple.

And if a person that barely was able to get out of the batters box gets ahead of them, they scream about affirmative action and white oppression.

ongbok:jso2897: ox45tallboy: Smeggy Smurf: He has a point. How many Democrats believe that blacks cannot compete with whites on a level playing field? It's all about affirmative action and quotas as though the color of your skin actually matter if you're capable of doing the job or not. Soft racism of low expectations is still racism.

How about acknowledgement of things which disproportionately affect people of different races? Such as the incarceration rates and sentence lengths of people of different races, the 4th Amendment violations of "stop and frisk", demands for proof of citizenship, high school graduation rates, sentencing differences between powder and rock cocaine, and poverty?

I think he problem is that one side truly believes that there is a "level playing field", the other acknowledges the fact that there are differences and actually works to make it level.

You can't reason with a person who was born on third base, and whose fragile self-esteem requires that they pretend they hit a triple.

And if a person that barely was able to get out of the batters box gets ahead of them, they scream about affirmative action and white oppression.

Just don't call them racist. Because that would be racist, to call them racist.

ox45tallboy:Smeggy Smurf: He has a point. How many Democrats believe that blacks cannot compete with whites on a level playing field? It's all about affirmative action and quotas as though the color of your skin actually matter if you're capable of doing the job or not. Soft racism of low expectations is still racism.

How about acknowledgement of things which disproportionately affect people of different races? Such as the incarceration rates and sentence lengths of people of different races, the 4th Amendment violations of "stop and frisk", demands for proof of citizenship, high school graduation rates, sentencing differences between powder and rock cocaine, and poverty?

I think he problem is that one side truly believes that there is a "level playing field", the other acknowledges the fact that there are differences and actually works to make it level.

I remember a study where they had a black guy and a white guy apply for the same job (or trying to rent an apartment, I forgot which). Their work experience and education were nearly identical, except the white applicant had a farking felony conviction, while the black applicant had a clean record. The white guy STILL got a better response than the black applicant.

Honestly, I don't know why he doesn't run for leadership of the GOP, he represents their integrity perfectly.

yet he was given a royal anal exam by the left because obama answered his question honestly.

/his driver's license was made public, that he was a plumber apprentice was made public. why? because the left seethed at his nerve to ask a stupid question to a faker candidate.

/lesson learned? Unless you want people digging through your garbage for 5 weeks, you had better not question a democrat unless it is "boxers or briefs".

//had the media and rabid leftist let this guy alone, he would not be a news item today, would he. but they had to teach the proletariat minions a lesson, didn't they.

Uh no. The reason he became a news item was because John McCain brought him up 50 bajillion times during the third presidential debate and intentionally used him as a prop for his campaign. The media focus did not come in until after that. But thanks for playing.

This. You don't get to lie to folks, invent characters and 'facts' to fit your narrative that you know is completely devoid of any basis in reality, and then get pissy when folks look at you and go 'wow no farking partof that whatsoever was true'

Well it is true that places like Boston and Philly are probably more racist than places like Dallas and Atlanta, but then again those are all Democratic cities. It does annoy me that people somehow think racism is relegated to only the south when that is far from true. That is of course not what this dummy is thinking but to me it is an important issue in the US. I feel some folks in the North and West use the South to deflect from their own racial problems at times.

TheJoe03:Well it is true that places like Boston and Philly are probably more racist than places like Dallas and Atlanta, but then again those are all Democratic cities. It does annoy me that people somehow think racism is relegated to only the south when that is far from true. That is of course not what this dummy is thinking but to me it is an important issue in the US. I feel some folks in the North and West use the South to deflect from their own racial problems at times.

Both the North and South have racism but they handle and express it in different ways. Having lived in both regions for many years, I can honestly say that the old adage, "Northern whites don't mind blacks being uppity as long as they don't live nearby, Southern whites don't mind blacks living nearby as long as they aren't uppity" really rings true.

the_vegetarian_cannibal:"Northern whites don't mind blacks being uppity as long as they don't live nearby, Southern whites don't mind blacks living nearby as long as they aren't uppity" really rings true.

Exactly right. From my experience, Northern and Western whites like the concept of black people but not the reality, while Southern whites hate the concept of black people but not the reality. This is a generalization of course, but I'm a brown guy that has lived in Texan and then California, and this is what I've observed.

Though this goes beyond just black and white of course, but that is the racial conversation STILL in this country, which to me is kind of silly. Latinos, Asians, and others are a factor that the society at large seems to ignore racially. Patrice O'Neal said it perfectly when he said it will always be black vs white in this country and the other ethnic and racial groups pick a side, at least now they do.

TheJoe03:Though this goes beyond just black and white of course, but that is the racial conversation STILL in this country, which to me is kind of silly. Latinos, Asians, and others are a factor that the society at large seems to ignore racially.

Because the black demographic was the only one that was ever intentionally institutionally oppressed. The various south/central american immigrants and Asian immigrants are just going through exactly the same shiat that every immigrant to the US, ever, has gone through... basically coming here because they're poor, spending a generation or two working up from poverty and semi-self-segregating, then gradually integrating into the main-stream of the culture.

"Black" immigrant families frequently come from lines that didn't come here willingly in the first place, were actually a legally separate social class for a century or so, and then maintained a strong total segregation for another century. It's a fundamentally different situation... we know the issue of 'latino' and Asian immigrants will work itself out because it's worked out the last 500 times it happened, but the US has only had a population shift from second-class to full citizenship once in its history so we're understandably more concerned about how that's working out.

//And extra concerned because it initially didn't work out, ten or twenty waves of immigrants joined into the main-stream culture between reconstruction and the actual reintegration of black populations. We've only been doing it right for about four decades, so uncertainty makes sense.

Jim_Callahan:"Black" immigrant families frequently come from lines that didn't come here willingly in the first place, were actually a legally separate social class for a century or so, and then maintained a strong total segregation for another century. It's a fundamentally different situation... we know the issue of 'latino' and Asian immigrants will work itself out because it's worked out the last 500 times it happened, but the US has only had a population shift from second-class to full citizenship once in its history so we're understandably more concerned about how that's working out.

I totally understand that but my point is it still seems a bit strange that we still are "black vs white" when there are so many different ethnic and racial groups at play. We live in 2013 and we can't ignore our new demographics entirely based on history, and that seems to be happening whenever we get into racial discussions. Like I said (through Patrice) it will long be black vs white but we need to factor everyone else in in this day and age to have a substantial racial/ethnic discussion in this country.

/Also, let's not act like Latino and Asian racial issues are new, they have been around since at least the 1800s.

Marcus Aurelius:"Unquestionably white Democrats are the most racist people I've ever met, and they have infected black Democrats. The irony is that black Democrats will one day realize the racism from their white handlers and, blacks will bite the hand that feeds them. Unfortunately America will likely be bankrupt when it happens"

I don't even know where to begin with that statement.

You don't wrestle with a pig, you don't play chess with a pigeon and you don't argue with a moran.

Jim_Callahan:The various south/central american immigrants and Asian immigrants are just going through exactly the same shiat that every immigrant to the US, ever, has gone through

I'd also like to add that you can't really compare to Latin American and Asian immigrants that much with people like Italians and Irish based on the fact they aren't European and/or Christian. European immigrants that used to be treated poorly eventually were accepted as part of the "white Christian race" but that doesn't apply to immigrants from outside of Europe. That isn't something easily ignored when it comes to racism in America.

TheJoe03:Jim_Callahan: "Black" immigrant families frequently come from lines that didn't come here willingly in the first place, were actually a legally separate social class for a century or so, and then maintained a strong total segregation for another century. It's a fundamentally different situation... we know the issue of 'latino' and Asian immigrants will work itself out because it's worked out the last 500 times it happened, but the US has only had a population shift from second-class to full citizenship once in its history so we're understandably more concerned about how that's working out.

I totally understand that but my point is it still seems a bit strange that we still are "black vs white" when there are so many different ethnic and racial groups at play. We live in 2013 and we can't ignore our new demographics entirely based on history, and that seems to be happening whenever we get into racial discussions. Like I said (through Patrice) it will long be black vs white but we need to factor everyone else in in this day and age to have a substantial racial/ethnic discussion in this country.

/Also, let's not act like Latino and Asian racial issues are new, they have been around since at least the 1800s.

Trading on the politics of "The Other" isn't exactly new. These folks ain't like "us" and they want totally different things, and they live totally different, and their ways are strange and smelly. Has been a feature of American politics for a long while. Be it the Irish. Be it the Puerto Ricans. Be in the Japanese or Chinese, or even Vietnamese waves of immigration. Be it the Cubans. The Mexican waves of immigration, that have been oddly enough, been sort of an issue since pretty much their inception as a nation, and our own territories butting up against them.

What is odd about this conversation, is the blistering denial by some of the effects of policy that some advocate. Policies designed to limit the voting franchise, impact communities with racially based profiling, even which drugs are scheduled higher based on what the drug of choice is in those communities, and yet, when it comes time that we need troops, we suddenly expect folks who are seeing some shenanigans thrown at their communities, to step up, and fight for a nation that keeps throwing them curve balls, and thank us for the effort.

It's NOT about black or white--let's face it, most of the racists in this country, favor their own ethnicity over ALL others. Be they black. Be they white. Be they yellow--and in all honesty, my Japanese-American brethren and sistren, some ARE some brilliantly twisted sorts of racist, and that goes against OTHER yellow folks too. Be they brown. The difficulty is, that we have a lot of folks who simply want to chuck the Zoot Suit riots down the memory hole, who want to chuck the Japanese Internment down the memory hole. Who want to chuck...well, the bulk of the African-American experience down the memory hole. Because it's inconvenient. And because folks are beginning to ken that by about 2030 white folks in this country will no longer be 50% of the population. Still the most populace, but black, brown, and all the other colors will outnumber pale Americans. And that scares the bejeebus out of some folks. Because "The Other" is a powerful motivator for fear, and at the same time, it ignores that this is a nation of immigrants. From all over the world. Not just Europe. And the issue of "The Other" boils down to "Us" vs "Them" and that is easy to tap fear from. The issue is that there are folks who like to tap that fear. Because it short circuits reason, and gets down to the shambling primate brain, that sees rivals move into their hunting territory, and see rivals.

We have issues not just with fear, but the folks who want to trade on that fear, but really want to do so without ever being called on tapping into that fear. You can't dance with the Devil and then say you were only playing at it.

hubiestubert:We have issues not just with fear, but the folks who want to trade on that fear, but really want to do so without ever being called on tapping into that fear. You can't dance with the Devil and then say you were only playing at it.

Politics 101 it seems, sad to see so many regular folks fall for it. Great post on your part, it was much needed.

"Myself and a few other conservatives will not allow the left to continue setting the narrative. Racism is wrong on so many levels and when political parties use it as a weapon they aren't fighting racism they are encouraging it."

The cognitive dissonance is deafening.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_%28United_States%29#B lac k_Americans] ; "African Americans began drifting to the Democratic Party, as Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal programs gave economic relief to all minorities, including African Americans and Hispanics. Support for the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960s by Democratic presidents John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson helped give the Democrats even larger support among the African-American community, which consistently vote between 85-95% Democratic."

"...black Democrats will one day realize the racism from their white handlers and, blacks will bite the hand that feeds them." Yeah, when are those black people going to wake up?

Precious Roy's Horse Dividers:I hate to agree with Joe in any way, but in my little corner of NEPA the local government is largely Democrats and this is the most racist area I have ever lived in. That said, Sam is a major league dickbag, and my experience is with local politics in Pennsyltucky and likely does not reflect the national landscape.

"Myself and a few other conservatives will not allow the left to continue setting the narrative. Racism is wrong on so many levels and when political parties use it as a weapon they aren't fighting racism they are encouraging it."

The cognitive dissonance is deafening.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_%28United_States%29#B lac k_Americans] ; "African Americans began drifting to the Democratic Party, as Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal programs gave economic relief to all minorities, including African Americans and Hispanics. Support for the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960s by Democratic presidents John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson helped give the Democrats even larger support among the African-American community, which consistently vote between 85-95% Democratic."

"...black Democrats will one day realize the racism from their white handlers and, blacks will bite the hand that feeds them." Yeah, when are those black people going to wake up?

I do wish the black communities would hold their politicians' feet to the fire over the Drug War. That's perhaps the last aspect of institutional racism on the national level.

Sure MLK was a Republican. That's why J. Edgar Hoover spied and tracked him for being a communist. Or a Kenyan. Or a muslim. Or whatever. Anyway, he surely was pro-freedom and only thing he said sbout voting was "end Jim Crow" so that blacks COULD exercise the right to vote.

jso2897:Smeggy Smurf: He has a point. How many Democrats believe that blacks cannot compete with whites on a level playing field? It's all about affirmative action and quotas as though the color of your skin actually matter if you're capable of doing the job or not. Soft racism of low expectations is still racism.

Yeah, I think y'all better stick with the voter suppression - your idea of "outreach" is NOT going to fly.

I think that Republican "outreach" is intended primarily to soothe people in their own camp. Republicans, like Democrats, hold various shades of opinions on race (or gender or sexual orientation). There are some who would like to literaly hunt "blacks and liberals." There are some who believe that poverty and crime among American blacks is due purely to Johnson's policies, the "Democrat plantation." There are some who would like to prevent all brown people from voting.

There are also many who do not hold these views, even if they're still convinced about the whole "Obama gives free stuff to brown people so they vote for him" thing, or a somewhat milder form of this ("we have a spending problem!" that ignores corporate giveaways, social security and "defense" spending, for example).

I doubt that many of the people crafting Republican "outreach" believe it will convince many people who aren't already in the GOP camp. In fact, I doubt that many of the people crafting those policies want people outside the camp to join.

Kibbler:I think that Republican "outreach" is intended primarily to soothe people in their own camp. Republicans, like Democrats, hold various shades of opinions on race (or gender or sexual orientation). There are some who would like to literaly hunt "blacks and liberals." There are some who believe that poverty and crime among American blacks is due purely to Johnson's policies, the "Democrat plantation." There are some who would like to prevent all brown people from voting.

The Dominionists and the Mega-Churchers have also poisoned the well on poverty. The Prosperity Gospel says God wants you to be rich and wealth is a sign you're doing something right. The flip side of that is, poverty is viewed as a symptom of moral failings, not a cause. Poor people are poor because they're terrible people, and justifies the "they're moochers" mindset.

what_now:Marcus Aurelius: "Unquestionably white Democrats are the most racist people I've ever met, and they have infected black Democrats. The irony is that black Democrats will one day realize the racism from their white handlers and, blacks will bite the hand that feeds them. Unfortunately America will likely be bankrupt when it happens"

I don't even know where to begin with that statement.

It's a real shame how Democrats are convincing people to vote against their own interests.

UNC_Samurai:Kibbler: I think that Republican "outreach" is intended primarily to soothe people in their own camp. Republicans, like Democrats, hold various shades of opinions on race (or gender or sexual orientation). There are some who would like to literaly hunt "blacks and liberals." There are some who believe that poverty and crime among American blacks is due purely to Johnson's policies, the "Democrat plantation." There are some who would like to prevent all brown people from voting.

The Dominionists and the Mega-Churchers have also poisoned the well on poverty. The Prosperity Gospel says God wants you to be rich and wealth is a sign you're doing something right. The flip side of that is, poverty is viewed as a symptom of moral failings, not a cause. Poor people are poor because they're terrible people, and justifies the "they're moochers" mindset.

The converse seems to be the notion that poor people are entitled to permanent assistance, which only encourages them to continue in that state. When you're talking about absolute necessities like food, water, heat, and sanitation, that makes sense if you can do it within the available means..The Democratic Party has reached the point though where that's not good enough. Now they want to give everybody free cell phones, free health care, and free money. They want to give necessities to people who don't really need them also, who could afford to pay for them.

That's because the Democrats aren't really about fulfilling basic necessities. What they're about is buying as many votes as possible, and it doesn't matter to them if it degrades a man's self respect and capability to support himself and degrades the family structure by encouraging single motherhood. None of that matters the slightest to Democrats if they can get your vote.

Racist? In effect yes because it disproportionately affects blacks. A better word might be "parasitic" because the party has become a parasite feeding on the corpse of America's economic prosperity.

Black people are the most politically astute voting class in the U.S. today and voting as a block for Democrats is just proof of that. Unlike Whites who are financially similarly situated, you will almost never see Black voters tricked into voting for a party due to asinine and unimportant issues like gay marriage, abortion or feminism. But poor and middle-class Whites fall for those distractions all the time. While Democrats have not always lived up to their promises of greater economic equality, they are a damn sight better than the Republicans. The Black voting population knows that voting for Republicans is exactly like a chicken voting for KFC and it pisses the Republicans off. IF only Black voters could be tricked by distractions as easily as Whites, the Republicans would have a lock.