What is everyones problem? I'll use my friend's teaching strategy that he used in a beginner class tonight. He taught all of our adults basic wing chun theory under the guise that it was advanced Kempo material (they don't know the difference yet...not high enough rank/no knowledge of other styles). He told them to block whatever he threw at them and he used typical wing chun techniques such as folding elbows, trapping etc.... Essentially they couldn't stop him from hitting them, and were awestruck. So he had them practice that drill. Then he showed them some boxing drills. Jabbing, proper chin positioning and body movement when closing the distance etc... So they worked that on each other.

Then he showed them how when trying to use Wing Chun techniques against someone using boxing techniques, they got punched in the face alot. Wing Chun must be teh suck!? But wait! Then he told the biggest guy in class to box him and he simply shot in, took him down and made him submit with a Kimura/Figure 4 wristlock. So boxing must be teh suck?

In the end, he made a speech that training in soley Wing Chun is flawed because Wing Chun techniques (Like ANY "sport") are based not on reality but on itself. Yes they work great....when fighting someone who punches like a Wing Chunner (or an inexperienced fighter). And boxing works great!.....when fighting a boxer that doesn't know how to kick properly or execute proper takedowns/groundwork. And grappling defenses work GREAT....as long as your fighting a grappler and not a proficient striker with takedown defense.

Wing chun takes more heat than others because unlike boxing, grappling, kickboxing, it is much harder to implement it's theories into situations where a person knows how to utilize a proper guard, takedown, or jab.

As the sayings go, you don't box a boxer, wrestle a wrestler or chi sao a chunner

2. The staple of Wing Chun is quick centerline punching. Although on the surface is might look ok, its not. First it encourages throwing a punch with only your arm. This ends up with weak surface punching.

I been hit with the chain punch. After getting hit by Kickboxers, Boxers, and Koppojutsu guys the chain punch didn't even phase me.

Right, but Bruce Lee's original MA was Wing Chun. He was pretty good. When I was about 14, I saw a movie of his where he was talking to a bunch of Kung-Fu thugs (I think it was return of the Dragon-)

Thug: I hear Chinese Boxing lacks and real power!

Lee: (Cheesy Grin) You only lack power when you're a beginner!!

If you read anything by Pavel Tsatouline, you'll learn that speed and power are mutually exclusive for a beginner. Because speed requires the muscles to be relaxed, and power requires tension, a _ing _un noob won't have the neuromuscular skills to pull off a a chain punch with any real power. (This will not, I might add, stop him from talking ****,.) When the guy has been practicing for a long time, that chain punch might phase you a little.

Another part of the problem is the mysticism surrounding "chi" that is so prevalent in Asian MA. It "exists" in that it gets you to tighten up your core by breathing. It's Chinese junk science, the same science that fed the first emperor mecury to make him immortal.

Bottom line - WC would be effective if it were taught without the mystic crap and focused propiorecptive training. The theory is pretty bitchin - it's a very "efficent" MA, but the training regimen and the focus on chi just knocks it into the ground. If they changed the way they trained it would be vastly more effective.

Alternatives....

Given: Wing Chun can (given time) be an effective stand up art when used against another Wing Chun practioner/kung fu practitioner.
Given: Wing Chun has flaws, no groundfighting for example.
Given: Cross-training is the ideal way to compensate for styalistic weaknesses.

So my question, Using Wing Chun as a base what one or two other styles would you (the board) suggest cross training in to compensate for the weakneses of Wing Chun?

The Beef with Wing Chun is this

Aside from the "man" Bruce Lee, as far as anyone else can see now, has done jack and **** with Wing Chun. Yeah we hear alot how its the baddest of the bad, but when do we see it? When somebody steps up, and throws down. Then not so much heckling.

However, and this is my firm firm time tested opion. Modern martial arts are a joke. I don't know how many fights I have gotten into with so called schooled martial artists, and handed their asses on a plate. You are more than likely not going to get into a fight where you have the chance to make it a "fair' fight. Street fighting isn't fair, isn't supposed to be. You can be the best grappler in the world, and i only gotta hit you a few times with a pipe before its all over but the crying.

One of the biggest reasons that its a joke is this. When do they teach you to take your bumps? I enrolled in this Tae Kwon Do class when i was a kid, spent 4 years in it, never learned how to take a fall. When I started my Sambo lessons years before hand, thats the second thing my grandfather taught me. How to take a hit, and roll with any thing that comes your way.

Aside from the "man" Bruce Lee, as far as anyone else can see now, has done jack and **** with Wing Chun. Yeah we hear alot how its the baddest of the bad, but when do we see it? When somebody steps up, and throws down. Then not so much heckling.

However, and this is my firm firm time tested opion. Modern martial arts are a joke. I don't know how many fights I have gotten into with so called schooled martial artists, and handed their asses on a plate. You are more than likely not going to get into a fight where you have the chance to make it a "fair' fight. Street fighting isn't fair, isn't supposed to be. You can be the best grappler in the world, and i only gotta hit you a few times with a pipe before its all over but the crying.

One of the biggest reasons that its a joke is this. When do they teach you to take your bumps? I enrolled in this Tae Kwon Do class when i was a kid, spent 4 years in it, never learned how to take a fall. When I started my Sambo lessons years before hand, thats the second thing my grandfather taught me. How to take a hit, and roll with any thing that comes your way.

Oh **** what a revolutionary concept. You got learn to take a hit! You sir have change my entire outlook on my training. Maybe we can train this through sparring?