Su-27: News

Russia is a big country and in some places a T-62 with a 115mm main gun is good enough against the local enemy... that might not have any tanks of its own, let alone anti tank weapons.

Certainly getting rid of old stuff is a good thing... getting rid of T-62s eliminates the 115mm smoothbore gun from the inventory and the T-55 and T-54 would get rid of the 100mm rifled tank gun... but production of the 100mm ammo makes sense as they are still in use around the world.

Ideally getting to the point where all MBT guns are 125mm makes sense logistically and in terms of towed guns 125mm would be good to in terms of stockpiling ammo in storage areas.

Quite often old equipment can be more expensive to operate because of the age of the systems and the lack of spares and support equipment.

Rather than selling T-55s I am sure they would prefer to be selling base model T-72/90s, or Flankers.

Newer systems have easier to maintain electronics even if they are not state of the art.

Imagine trying to find a new hard drive for your Amiga 500 now? An external floppy drive would cost hundreds of dollars...

Much of the older stuff will become targets or airfield hacks or training equipment to teach the basics in without wearing out the new stuff... of course even this will happen less with computer based training equipment.

d_taddei2 wrote:some fair points, i saw that maybe selling thm cheap could be a stop gap for some air forces and a chance for Russia get rid of some and make some money, as normal they will no doubt end up in scrap yard. I always find that Russia doesnt seem that bother in pushing to get rid of its older equipment when it could easily be sold on to poorer nations, its a win win situation for everyone involved, Russia gets to make some money(not just original sale but also ongoing spare parts), get rid of older equipment, and gain additional customers for future purchases, and the country buying gets to equip its forces on the cheap. Russia could easily do this with the amount of equipment it has laying around idle, especially in terms of armour. And with certain countries now looking to protect itself from ISIS this could be ideal time.

What type of Flanker is bought also depend on customers need. New standard Su-27 was bought only by Vietnam and China in the nineties for air defense needs. Later Indonesia bought Su-27SMK similarly for air defense needs. Angola, Etiopia and Eritrea bought used Su-27 fighters, I think mostly from Ukraine and they used them for air defense. But all other customers, which need more multirole or for longer range patrols go for Su-30 of various versions. Su-30 have IFR capabilities and crew of two.

You must have in mind, that longer distance also mean longer time of flying. Basic Su-27 doesn't have an IFR capabilities, so single seater is the best option for its needs. Su-35 have IFR and is multirole, but it have only 1 pilot in cabin, which is alone for all tasks. Although modern computers and avionics well reduce his work, he still have to fly and control the plane and do his combat work, so such single seater is best suited to fly 6 hours, max to 8 hours, what mean around 1 refueling in the air. If the pilot will fly longer, his concentration will fall too much and flying will not be that safe. Twin seater Su-30 of all variants could fly longer, like 10 to 12 hours as both could fly and control the plane, what mean they could divide their work and have time to rest in between. But they are still limited to sitting on their sits in the cabin like in all other western fighters like F-15E, F/A-18F, twin seater Rafale or Eurofighter, etc. The best fighter for long flights is Su-34. Not only, that both members of crew could fly the plane and could with that divide the work and rest, they could also stand from their sits and do some exercises and they also have thermo bottles for tea or coffee and bags for food like sandwiches or similar and portable pisoars, which enable them that they could fly for 12 hours or even more. So they could make more in flight refuelings. We must not forget, that in air to air role Su-34 is no worse than F/A-18, as it have similar speed and agility and very powerful radar which also have excellent air to air capabilities and could use all the most modern Russian AAMs.

I think this somehow explain, why Su-35 is still mostly air defense and air dominance fighter first with multirole as secondary capabilities. Su-34 is fighter-bomber for ground attacks first with air defense fighter as secondary capabilities. Su-30SM is in between and for long range fighter escort better suited than Su-35 because of the crew of two. I have no doubt, that Su-30SM will be bought in quite a significant numbers and when they will be equipped with new Khibiny ECM pods and new targeting pod, they will be very potent platforms for some decades.

Perhaps, this news from Mil.Today shed some light... Russian Defense Ministry suspends flights of Su-27 fighters until clarification of causes of the air crash happened Thursday morning, June 9, in Moscow Region.The Russian military authority reports that, according to preliminary data, the jet crash was caused by a technical failure. The pilot did everything possible to drive the aircraft away from an inhabited locality, so had no time for catapulting.

bantaa wrote:Perhaps, this news from Mil.Today shed some light... Russian Defense Ministry suspends flights of Su-27 fighters until clarification of causes of the air crash happened Thursday morning, June 9, in Moscow Region.The Russian military authority reports that, according to preliminary data, the jet crash was caused by a technical failure. The pilot did everything possible to drive the aircraft away from an inhabited locality, so had no time for catapulting.

That so, a noble death for that man then. He died a hero what more can be said.

MOSCOW, July 3 -. RIA Novosti Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov on Sunday inspected the Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aircraft Plant named after Yuri Gagarin on the fulfillment of the state defense order in 2016, the press-service management and department information.

Borisov inspected the plant production capacity and familiar with the manufacturing process fighter Su-35S. The deputy head of the Ministry of Defence showed the assembly plant and the manufacturing process Sukhoi PAK FA (PAK FA)."Komsomolsk-on-Amur aviation plant - a leading aircraft manufacturer of frontline aviation We checked the performance of the plant state order in 2016 and are very pleased with the progress of this work at the moment almost all the aircraft are in final assembly shop and it gives us confidence that the... until November 25, all plans GOZ-2016 will be fulfilled ", - the press-service Borisov words.In 2015, he was awarded the contract for the modernization of four Su-27, which will be delivered to the Ministry of Defense in 2017. As part of the Sukhoi PAK FA is the realization of an experimental batch of T-50 aircraft, serial contract that will be concluded in 2017 with the delivery dates in 2018.

Su-27 - the Russian multi-purpose highly mobile all-weather fighter-interceptor. Intended for long-range and short-range air combat, interception and destruction of manned and unmanned aircraft over its territory and ensure the actions of naval forces at a distance of 300-400 kilometers from the coastline.T-50 (PAK FA project) - Russia's fifth generation fighter aircraft equipped with a fundamentally new avionics suite and promising radar with a phased antenna array. The first flight took place in 2010 in Komsomolsk-on-Amur, the first public display of fighter aircraft - in 2011 at the Aviation and Space Salon MAKS in Zhukovsky near Moscow.

Take it that the 4 Su-27 under modernization are part of the 36 Su-27P being rebuilt to Su-27SM3 standards. First deliveries were to be in 2017.

Also confirming serial production of the T-50 (which will soon need a Su designation) starts in 2017 with deliveries in 2018.

The photographs below were taken from Tikaboo Valley, near Groom Lake, Nevada, by Phil Drake, who was lucky enough to observe one of the U.S. military’s Su-27P Flanker-Bs dogfighting with an F-16 — presumably one of the four Groom Lake based -D models — in the skies above Area 51.

Although the quality of the pictures is low — the aircraft were flying between 20,000 and 30,000 feet — they are extremely interesting since the Flankers operating from Groom are not a secret but have rarely been photographed.

The Su-27s have been previously documented in 2003–2004 and more recently between 2012 and 2014.

GarryB wrote:My understanding was that the P in Su-27P was for interceptor for PVO units, while standard frontal aviation units had fighters designated S.AFAIK they even had different systems so the R-27ER and ET missiles that the PVO used were not the same as the R-27ER and ET missiles the Frontal Aviation used.The PVO tended to use datalinks rather more.

The Su-27P are the latest batch´s of Su-27, after 1989 or so, from 29-XX series to 37-xx in 1993-4 +/-ALso , several Su-27S got the "P" new skills, but basically the difference is simply: was made later , with inprovements learned of the operational use of the firsts

The Su-27 with MiG-31 and others like older Mig-25 , Mig-23, etc... , was part of USSR PVO forces (air defence forces) while the most Mig-29 , not all , was part of VVS or Air Force (frontal aviation) combined in divisions with Su-24 , Su-25 , Mig-27 , Su-22 and older planesJust look some regiments of East in 80´s (22º,47º,60º) http://www.ww2.dk/new/pvo/11oapvo.htmI think Su-27 was out of PVO mainly outside the USSR, in outstanding forces in other countries of Warsaw Pact

The Su-27 was designed basically as superiority fighter, the ground attack capability (FGA) for become "multirole figther" was added with the SU-27SM modernization

franco wrote:More Su-27SM's to Besovet. According to this article there where only 45 -27SM's left, 2 at Ahtubinsk, 10 at Belbek, 18 at Dzemgi and that would leave 15 at Uglovaya. Those at Dzemgi being moved to Besovet.http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1798441.html

franco wrote:There still could be 5 Su-27SM's at Lipetsk making 50, as this article doesn't mention any aircraft at Lipetsk. It just breaks down the status of the original 48 at Dzemgi and Uglovaya, when you think about it. And an article from last year mentioned 5 -27SM's at Lipetsk

About the number of Su-27SM , was made 54-One for Akhtubinsk as head of series, that later was transformed in "prototype" of SM3 -5 for Lipestk , which are out of service because are much older than the other, and once that Sukhoi squadron of Lipestk only has Su-30/35-48 for two regiments (22 and 23 IAP)

Each regiment lost one plane in accidents , so probably remains 46One plane of Vladivostok Nº 07 had bad landing because of the front landing gear , and touched the runway with the "nose" I suppose bmpd , or the site from which he takes the information ,it discounts this plane.I think the plane could fly if it is repaired, or perhaps is cheaper modernise other Su-27 in good shape than repair this one after many time unused

https://russianplanes.net/id213606https://russianplanes.net/id215238

In late July , 5 Su-27SM of Dzemgi , including Nº 85 and 90 travel to West , 2 for complete the squadron of Besovets and 3 for KhotilovoAlso 2 planes of Vladivostok , Nº09 and Nº27 was seen in the way for West , probably for complete the squadron of Khotilovo

Now , should have:3 squadrons in Belbek , Besovets , and Khotilovo , 36 planes10 remain in 22º(5), 23º(2) & Akhtubisnk(3), excluding the "prototype". Other squadron could be raised up, just adding two of the better Su-27P remaining now and change for a couple of extra Su-27SM3 later

medo wrote:Interesting. Where are the rest of Su-27SM? they produce 53 Su-27SM, 5 for Lipetsk and 48 for Dzemgi and Uglovaya. they lost 2 in crashes, so 6 were somewhere. I think they will quite soon send all their Su-27SM and Su-30M2 in Belbek and Besovets as they are getting replaced by Su-35 and Su-30SM in Dzemgi and Uglovaya. For now, they have enough Su-30M2 for existing Su-27SM/SM3 units. 12 in Krymsk together with 12 new built Su-27SM3 to form a combined regiment and 4 in Belbek and 4 in Besovets to form regiments with Su-27SM from Dzemgi and Uglovaya. Bit for 36 more Su-27SM3 they will need at least 6 more Su-30M2 or 16 if they will make another combined regiment with 12 Su-27SM3 and 12 Su-30M2. I don't think those additional Su-27SM3 will be without twin seaters.

SU-30M2 production line was closed after the Nº89 and 90 blues of Belbek. Su-30M2 is for training, is only a improved Su-27UB (Su-30=Su-27PU)-Dzemgi have 4 Su-30SM and 2 Su-30M2 as "two seater" and I think this is the model-Vladivostok have 2 SU-30SM (only one Su-35 sq. now) and 4 SU-30M2 that will be not necesary when regiment was completed with other sq. of 12 SU-35 and 2 Su-30SM. I think only will remain 2 "M2"When Su-27 squadrons change to Su-35 ,some Su-30M2 will go to training bases like Astrakhan and Kuschevskaya (Krasnodar Flying School) , that now has Sqdn, of 8 SU-27UB+2 Su-27SI think when all Su-35 regiments are complete with their Su-30SM , the 20 Su-30M2 should be in Astrakhan ( 12 ) and in Kuschevskaya ( 8 )

In westen Su-27 regiments, by end of 2020, each regiment should have one sqdn. of new Su-35 (40 or more will received 2017-20) and other sqdn. of modernized Su-27SM (as Besovets will get now) except Krymsk that will have sqdn. of new Su-27SM3 + sqdn. modernized Su-27SM3. In this way each western Su-27/35 regiment will have brand new and modernized squadrons each and it will not take so long to make the transition and have new planes in all Military DistrictsAll Su-27SM/SM3 should be replaced after 2020,also for Su-35. The Su-27SM/SM3 only "cover the gap" until the Su-35

I think Putin wanted to open a airbase with 24 Su-27SM3 in Belarus at Baranovichi, but Lukashenko don´t wants and Belarus will get Su-30SM now, so only is necesary one dozen of Su-27SM3If Russia do not open other regiment (Kilp Yarv, Chkalovsk-Kaliningrad , etc...) , I think Su-27SM3 is only necesary at Krymsk now

Last edited by AMCXXL on Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:56 am; edited 2 times in total

kopyo-21 wrote:Some months ago, there was a news talking about upgrading Su-27s to Su-27SM3 (that have been newly built sofar) instead of Su-27SM. Do you have any update on that?

Contract to modernize 36 Su-27 to Su-27SM3 standard was signed and the first group of Su-27 jets is now in KNAAPO, where they are going through modernization. Unfortunately there is no info, when they will be finished and delivered back to RuAF.

There are a lot of Su-27's in reserve and what not in Russia. Upgrading them all with latest electronics and capabilities to be able to defeat modern American aircraft is ideal and probably very cheap to do.

miketheterrible wrote:There are a lot of Su-27's in reserve and what not in Russia. Upgrading them all with latest electronics and capabilities to be able to defeat modern American aircraft is ideal and probably very cheap to do.

What's good about them is that many are mid-80s up to early-90s builds. They flew very little in the 90s and 00s. So their air-frames have a two decade breathing room compared to, say.. F-15E in USAF. Russia should use every single one of them as they are still top of the line jets.

It's a pity Ukraine ended up with quite a lot of them after USSR collapsed.

miketheterrible wrote:There are a lot of Su-27's in reserve and what not in Russia. Upgrading them all with latest electronics and capabilities to be able to defeat modern American aircraft is ideal and probably very cheap to do.

What's good about them is that many are mid-80s up to early-90s builds. They flew very little in the 90s and 00s. So their air-frames have a two decade breathing room compared to, say.. F-15E in USAF. Russia should use every single one of them as they are still top of the line jets.

It's a pity Ukraine ended up with quite a lot of them after USSR collapsed.

Exactly. Upgrading them would prove to be much useful and cheap. Which means a lot of money saved can then be poured into building newer jets like Su-57.

As for Ukraine, they left them to be dilapidated and so many of them are barely flyable and capable.