...
Now, one of my fellow classmate's entire premise was based solely on the fact that she was put up for adoption and that it was successful. The teacher actually laughed at what I said:

"Woopty fucking doo. Out of the 5 million other orphaned children still waiting for a new parent, struggling to make do in some shitty foster home somewhere in a rundown neighborhood, you were adopted? Great job sitting around letting a ratio randomly select you."

Anyway, I digress. Her, and many like her, seem to think that a pro-choice advocate is a pro-death advocate. They seem to think that we believe that it is the solution to any undesired birth when, in reality, I simply want it as an available, legal option.

Exactly. It is important for us to use the factually correct term for the anti-choice crowd. They are not pro-life. Quite the contrary, they are anti-choice and ultimately anti-life because the statistics re what actually happens when abortion is NOT a legal choice, clearly show that such jurisdictions have more unwanted pregnancies, more violent death and injury from all causes, and more pregnancy related deaths of women and their fetuses. The most peaceful societies with the least number of abortions per 100,000 citizens, and the least violence of all kinds are those which respect human rights and explicitly do not foist religion-based laws on their people.

"Heresy makes for progress" - Hypatia Bradlaugh Bonner
[1 Corinthians 13:11] When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. - The Bible King James Version. See? Even the Bible says "Put me down!"

Yeah, it does piss me off when people don't understand that pro-choice means pro-CHOICE, as in, keep it or don't. They think people want all babies aborted or some shit, when it means the decision is up to the mother. I know lots of parents who are prochoice, and lots of people who say they wouldn't have an abortion, but that other women should have that choice. so yes, I think it's appropriate to call the other side "anti-choice."

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but it might be fun to ask an administrator when the pro-choice speaker would be at the school. They aren't supposed to be promoting a specific political/religious agenda right?

I know nothing may come of it, but it might make them think. Maybe you can get your confidence back debating that with the administrator?

(21-04-2013 01:39 AM)Atothetheist Wrote: Ever had one of those days where you feel like a fucking piece of shit? Where you feel like you are a monster for thinking what you think and doing what you do, even if they are based on good, logical arguments?

No? Well you are lucky, because I did.

On Friday, the school hosted a person who was speaking out against abortion. She is a lawyer, and is in favor of the "no compromise, no exceptions" side of Pro-life. If you aren't familiar with the slogan, or just can't see the obvious, it means that abortion should be COMPLETELY outlawed. No rape victims getting it, nor people who would die if they didn't get it.

Now, her talk was basically her sharing her life story, and how it ties into abortion and how her mother was raped, and she was born. She then started to make appeals to emotions, and then she tried to guilt trip me (but it wasn't directly me, more or less pro-choicers) into buying the argument that if I was pro-choice, then I think she SHOULD have died.

Basically, I was picking out the logical flaws in her arguments left and right, and coming up with rebuttals and counter arguments. However, every time I dismantled her claims, assertions and illogical appeals to emotions, I felt this odd feeling in myself.

I felt as if what I was doing was devaluing her life.

Basically, I felt that I was the monster in the room. The one who said that her life worthless.

I was doing, and feeling this way during the whole time, and when the Q/A session came up, I was ready to being the first volley of my comments and questions, which included the mention of "What about if the birth of the Baby compromises the mother's, and its own safety? Is the death of two, according to you,humans worth NOT getting an abortion? What about if the baby is certain to get an illness that will be worse than death, or will kill it in a way that the pain is indescribable? Would an abortion be the better option, or would the needless suffering of the kid, and consequently the mother be the better option?"

But, I couldn't do it. I couldn't oppose her. I felt ashamed that I would oppose her, even though I believe sincerely that abortions should be legalized, not only for the right to a woman's body, but to save the future needless deaths that will arise from Back-ally abortions.

I mean, Christ. When did they get so good at putting people like me to shame?

And what does this mean for the people who already are pro-life? This will surely only bolster that whole "Holier than thou" mentality they already have.

Anybody else experience it?

Will your school also invite a person to talk about the other side of the debate?
Perhaps a worker at planned parenthood who deals with women
in desparate situations.

(21-04-2013 07:53 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote: Anyone who has forced or unprotected sex can go to the drug store, no matter what age now, and take a Plan B pill. It will PREVENT a pregnancy from even starting.
The "abortion debate" is a thing of the past. It's a non issue, in 2013.

Well, not entirely. Firstly, there is always the girl who doesn't know about plan B being available to her. Education matters here.

Secondly, there is always the damaged fetus that didn't abort spontaneously. This may be a planned pregnancy, but the parents don't wish such a life on their kid, and the defect does not become visible until later into the pregnancy.

There will always be abortions is my guess...

Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man