We've had this discussion before. Lash had his 10 team model thread and 16 team model. But the discussion seemed to be starting up again on the ACC thread.

With another fb season behind us since the last thread there might be some different thoughts.

Some comments:
UMass decided it couldn't move right now.
ECU continued to lose, but continued to draw fairly well and has an AD with ACC connections.
Memphis made a bowl. And drew well.
UCF hired O'Leary-and finished winless in the MAC.
Marshall missed the MAC championship game for the 2nd year in a row.
USM remained solid.
UAB made a bowl for the 1st time.

USF showed their promise remained only promise, not present.
Cincinnati was typical Cincinnati.
Louisville had a great year.
SU shared the title, made a bowl and fired their coach.
WVU didn't live up to the hype.
Pitt lost a lot of people, but didn't slip. Of course, they managed to chase off their coach.
UConn did go 7-4 and make a bowl, but they were about the only member of the BE not to share the title.
Rutgers won a conference game.
Temple fell below Rutgers and finished last.

There is speculation that Temple, any time now, may get an invite to the MAC as a football only member. If this happens, not a whole lot has changed for Temple.
The school will still not be an "all sports" member of any conference. The competition, as a whole, will be more withstanding in football. However, that is off-set by having no real close-by traditional rivalries, and visiting conference teams will not be prone to improve Temple's attendance problems.
Temple may help the MAC if the MAC loses another team in the near future.
Temple will probably stuggle, as shown last season, against some of the MAC--that BGSU score. Temple is not at the level of Miami-Ohio, BGSU, NIU, or Toledo. Maybe Temple will become competitive in the MAC and it proves to be a good decision. Their options have been few. Though Temple wants to maintain Atlantic 10 bb, if they are going MAC, it should be all-the-way, and cultivate inter-sport conference rivalries.

I agree with you, DNC. If they're going MAC, it should be all the way.

It's disappointing to me that they have not made the commitment to football at any time in the past 15 years. with traditional Eastern powers dropping down in class or in emphasis & with the emergence of Big East Football, Temple had a real chance to do something without a lot of competition in the region.A rivalry with Rutgers - another disappointing program, I should add - would have been a natural & UConn isn't too far away either. There could have been intra-state rivalries with Penn State & Pitt as well as an OOC rivalry with relatively nearby Maryland. They had some good teams in the late '80s, but since then, it's been one disappointing season after another. :(

One possibility ND and Villanova have joint membership .3 games for ND(starting in 2011) and 5 games for Villanova.it is also possible that ND will move when and if a a split happens with the football schools under the same terms they have now(bowl matchups and 3 BE football games)No where is it being said ND will play a full BE football schedule.

This split schedule business (ND, Army, Navy, Villanova, whoever) is nonsense. A football conference consists of teams all playing the same number of games, preferably in a round robin (BE, MWC, WAC, SB, Pac 10 in 2006) or at least within a division (ACC, Big 12, SEC, CUSA, MAC). Only the Big 10 hasn't figured it out.

This is the BE anything ND may want will happen.ND has a sort of football membership that is based on 3 games per year.The latest rumors on the rivals boards has the 8 football schools with ND and Villanova and Georgetown forming a new league.If Villanova can draw 30000 plus to a game with Temple at the new Philly stadium it is possible that Villanova could join the BE football as the 9th member by 2011.It is possible that Villanova could do this as 5 game bE football season or as an 8 game season.A reduction of 5 schools in BE bb would relieve pressures of not making the BE bb tournament and getting to the NCAA.Also more money would be shared by fewer teams.

This all involves asking Villanova to either expand their stadium or start paying rent to the Eagles.

It's easier for a public school to goad the state into releasing public funds for such a venture than it is for a private to raise football funds. Is the promise of a Notre Dame payday at a neutral site enough to justify that expense? Would Notre Dame even do that? I have serious doubts.

Actually, I wonder who was the last private to jump from 1-AA to 1-A. I've got to think it's happened, but I can't think of a school that has- successfully.

Last edited by pounder on Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

Villanova will not expand its stadium.They will certainly pay the Eagles to play at the Lincoln.Practice facilities would need to be expanded.A few more coaches hired and 20 more scholarships given out.Is this for sure ,certainly not.But rumors of this originated on the Villanovarivals board and spread throughout many boards in the BE.Certainly ,the expenditure of twice as much on operating expenses per year would be required,but the expense of construction is minimal as compared to most 1AA to 1A moves ,because no new staium would be required.

Tigersharktwo, many on this board disputed your theory of Notre Dame playing 3 Big East games per year. This is now being discussed openly by Notre Dame Athletic Director. Just curious on where you got your information prior to the AD coming out with this plan.

Since Notre Dame is now going to play 3 Big East games per year in the future, some of your other suggestions may have more merits than were previously thought could be possible.

Since the Big East basically won the law suite with the ACC and will get four ACC teams play home games and Miami as a fifth game over the next few years, the TV contract should be OK until Notre Dame games start around 2012 season.

Villanova makes very good sense for the Big East football as a future member. The school this year will bring 3 NCAA basketball merits from this year tournament which translates into lots of dollars for the football schools to share as well.

Once the Big East 8 member football league establishes its BCS membership over the next few years, Villanova SOS should not hurt the Big East in maintaining its BCS auto bid. Since the BCS will review each BCS school top to bottom for performance, its probably best to have Villanova step up to play full time in about four or five years. All of this kind of goes in step when Notre Dame will begin to play a limited Big East football schedule.

The Gator Bowl will remain with the Big East and Notre Dame to avoid moving from the New Year Day slot. I cant see the Gator Bowl dropping to a second tier non New Years day game just to get an SEC team.

Tigersharktwo, you have always predicted the Big East would split and take some basketball schoolls such as Georgetown. This same rumor is floating aroung on several of the Big East rival boards.

I am not sure why the Big East football schools and Note Dame would take any other school except for Villanova if a split were to occur. Villanova makes sense as a future football all sports member.

Again a split can not occur for five years due to the rumored agreement with the 16 Big East schools that each will remain together for five years probably to benefit basketball merits and payouts.

A lot of interesting rumors are floating around and may have a more to do with fans being bored until football season starts.

Another interesting point today, Old Dominion a member of the CAA in all other sport sexcept footballis appearantly bringing back its 1AA football program.Could it be they know that Villanova will exit A10/CAA football and leave 1 opening in the 12 member football league?

a) Agreed the Gator Bowl played it's hand way too early. Better still for the ACC to shop their #2 around than for the Bowl to try to hitch another conference.

b) For all the logic behind a "Nova to BE football" scenario, some aspects of the ideas discussed here and elsewhere don't sit with me.
- It assumes much of the Catholic members, Nova and beyond. Recall this is the same group that's repeatedly denied moving up and taking action to otherwise stymie the growth of the football conference. I've yet to see any hard indication that they're interested in moving their primary affiliation away from each other and to the 1-A faction of mostly larger, state schools.

- Wouldn't this have worked out better before/without adding Marquette and DePaul? Or better yet a split might not even then be needed. Seriously, with BC still in discussions at the table and fewer mouths to feed this would've been much more palatable and plausible, IMO. 9 members for football (with Nova), only 14 mouths to feed for basketball and none of the odd travel for accommodating USF.

- If Georgetown is brought along than surely there'd be someway to bring SJU as well. If the 1-A crowd is going to those lengths the connections with those two schools is more important, IMO, than the ones with ND.

c) That ND may want to play in Philly doesn't equal a need to sponsor Nova. Games with Navy and others can be easily arranged, and with the changes to bowl eligibility requirements re: AA match-ups they could play Nova without needing to give them any special support.

I'd prefer the BE try to fold Nova into the football crowd rather than go elsewhere for #9, but I also don't see it as the clear realistic option.

Street and Smith's 2005 College Football yearbook summed it up quite nicely: "Wake up the echoes. A two-year study convinced Notre Dame to begin playing seven home games instead of six, beginning in 2009. Now that a permanent 12-game season is a reality, Notre Dame is considering playing neutral-site games once a year in cities like New Orleans, Dallas, and Chicago, just like the Irish did back in the days of Knute Rockne. Notre Dame also plans to play Navy in Dublin, Ireland, for the second time since 1996."

The above appears consistent with other press releases and prime college sports publications. If Notre Dame plays three BE fb games, that would not be unusual for an independent. It would not be unusual even if Notre Dame was not a member of BE basketball.

What is clear is Notre Dame has affirmed its football independence, and has not publically announced any intention for joining any conference in the near future for football.

I really question Villanova will be pursing 1-A football, given their history, and their current lack of means to compete with the eight BE fb members. The eastern services academies, particularly Navy, are committed to fb independence. Army's recent ill adventure with C-USA should hold them at being fb independent for awhile.

Conference membership, among other important things (marketing, bowl agreements, championships, revenue sharing, etc.) is essentially scheduling. And scheduling, has to be equitable or near equitable in terms of the number of conference games each member plays. A bowl can enter into agreements with multiple conferences and/or independents. Such, does not mean mutual membership.

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