posted at 1:20 pm on February 13, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

The Obama White House tried defusing the controversy over its HHS mandate last Friday by revving up their PR machine to claim that shifting the communication responsibility from religious-organization employers to the insurance companies for the mandated no-cost contraception and abortifacient coverage would address the concerns of those whose religions forbid the use of such products and services. Some of the usual suspects claimed to have been satisfied with the “accommodation,” such as E. J. Dionne, but for the most part, those arguments fell on deaf ears. The Wall Street Journal reports that 48 hours after the White House announcement — made without any consultation with those objecting to the HHS mandate — Roman Catholic churches across the nation echoed with blasts from the pulpit over the arrogance of Obama’s action:

At masses across the country Sunday, Roman Catholic priests blasted the Obama administration’s compromise on contraceptive insurance coverage, a sign the White House’s backtrack late last week did little to defuse the controversy. …

At St. Brendan Church in San Francisco, the Rev. Michael Quinn compared the church’s opposition to the contraceptive rules to the civil-rights fight waged by 1950s activist Rosa Parks, who refused to give her seat up to a white man on a bus. “I believe this is our Rosa Parks moment,” Father Quinn told more than 200 parishioners on Sunday. “This is our moment to say this is wrong.”

Archbishop Thomas Wenski of Miami said that while he appreciated Mr. Obama’s attempt to strike a compromise, it doesn’t go far enough.

“A legislative remedy to this overreaching and unprecedented incursion of state power into the domain of religious freedom and the rights of conscience is still necessary,” he said in a statement.

“By what authority does the President of the United States seek to impose this immoral policy?” Bishop Thomas J. Tobin of Providence, R.I., asked in a statement. “This is the United States, not North Korea.”

Three years ago, Notre Dame University provided Obama a platform to speak to Catholics and awarded him an honorary degree. Yesterday, the faculty at the Catholic university — which would be subject to the mandate — gave him the third degree instead, excoriating Obama for a “grave violation of religious freedom”:

Twenty-five Notre Dame faculty members–led by the university’s top ethics expert, and including some of the school’s most eminent scholars–have signed a statement declaring that President Barack Obama’s latest version of his administration’s mandate that all health insurance plans in the United States must cover sterilizations and all FDA-approved contraceptives, including those that cause abortions, is “a grave violation of religious freedom and cannot stand.”

The statement—put out on the letterhead of the University of Notre Dame Law School–is also signed by leading scholars from other major American colleges and universities, including Princeton, Harvard, Stanford, Georgetown, Brigham Young, Yeshiva and Wheaton College.

Prof. Carter Snead, a professor of law at Notre Dame, was one of the lead organizers of the statement, which was published on his official law school letterhead. Notre Dame’s top ethics expert, Snead serves as director of the university’s Center for Ethics and Culture, a position to which he was appointed by Father John Jenkins, the president of Notre Dame.

In 2009, Father Jenkins awarded President Barack Obama an honorary Notre Dame law degree. …

“This so-called ‘accommodation’ changes nothing of moral substance and fails to remove the assault on religious liberty and the rights of conscience which gave rise to the controversy,” they said. “It is certainly no compromise. The reason for the original bipartisan uproar was the administration’s insistence that religious employers, be they institutions or individuals, provide insurance that covered services they regard as gravely immoral and unjust. Under the new rule, the government still coerces religious institutions and individuals to purchase insurance policies that include the very same services.”

I’d hate to tell Notre Dame I told you so, but in fact a number of Catholics, myself included, did warn Notre Dame in 2009 about inviting Obama to deliver that commencement speech. My objection was specific to the honorary law degree Notre Dame awarded Obama for that appearance, a jarring decision given Obama’s previous attacks on the Catholic Church’s positions on life, especially in the Illinois Senate. Now the same law school that awarded Obama a law school degree is shocked, shocked to find that Obama thinks he can arrogate to himself the power to dictate to religious organizations that they have to facilitate actions which are forbidden by their core doctrinal values.

New Hampshire’s House Republicans plan to take on the Obama administration’s Department of Health and Human Services Monday by passing a non-binding resolution condemning the department’s new rule mandating religious institutions provide health coverage that includes free birth control.

NH Journal has learned House Speaker William O’Brien, who identifies himself as a constitutionalist, is incensed at the Obama rule because he believes it violates the First Amendment to the Constitution.

House Resolution 29 “calls upon the United States Department of Health and Human Services to cease its unconstitutional course of action, and to rescind this rule immediately; and the House further calls upon the members of New Hampshire’s congressional delegation to undertake whatever actions are necessary to ensure that this goal is promptly achieved.”

If the White House thought they had defused the situation on Friday, they were very much mistaken. The same political problem exists today, only with the extra dollop of arrogance from an administration that calculated an “accommodation” without bothering to consult their erstwhile allies in the Catholic Church and its organizations.

Comments

Not every Catholic believes that taking birth control pills amounts to a sin against humanity. Perhaps that was true 2000 years ago when the world population was insignificant, but not so today.

bayam on February 13, 2012 at 2:12 PM

Bayam,

1) What is Right and Wrong is not based one what a majority or minority believe.

2) Why is it that Liberals love to quote polls, most of them being push polls, showing a majority of people agreeing with them. But when voters vote against Liberal ideology, Prop 8 in California, you Liberals hate the majority?

So, do we take you seriously when you quote your numbers of how a majority of so called Catholics (these being nominal/cafetaria catholics who barely step inside a Catholic Church) agree with you or do we take you Liberals seriously when you tell us that what the majority believes and votes for does not matter like in Prop 8?

So, do we take you seriously when you quote your numbers of how a majority of so called Catholics (these being nominal/cafetaria catholics who barely step inside a Catholic Church) agree with you or do we take you Liberals seriously when you tell us that what the majority believes and votes for does not matter like in Prop 8?

Cpt. Kirk on February 13, 2012 at 4:06 PM

Look man – he’s telling you that a majority of Catholics at large either support, or personally practice birth control.

This is a fact. Every poll shows this to be true. Go to the churches – I’ve been to Catholic Churches and I’ve been to Mormon Churches. When I’ve been in the Catholic Churches – I don’t see very many large families.

In the Mormon Churches I’ve been too – SMALL FAMILIES are unusual.

This is because – Mormon church members are serious about what their anti-birth control principle while Catholics are not.

You can be offended by that – but I’m not questioning your dedication just the dedication of MOST Catholics on this issue. Maybe if your religious leaders would quit spending time trying to support big government money grabs for wealth distribution – they might have more time to “hone” the birth control message for their troopies sitting in the pews.

Name ONE that spoke out against the final version of the bill. The only time the church voiced disapproval for the abomination that is ObamaCare is when there was a provision to federally fund abortions. Once that was removed … or once it was “removed” to their satisfaction – they voiced no opposition whatsoever and even some came right out and endorsed it – saying, effectively … “that universal healthcare is a charitable act by the government”.

Now – I feel sorry for you Catholics who supported your leaders – who sold you down this path of losing your religious freedoms. However, you aren’t totally blameless – since the majority of you DID vote for Obama in 2008. Not that voting for McCain would have made that much difference though either.

If Catholics are serious – let them put ONE MILLION CATHOLICS into Washington, DC to protest this because …

The TEA PARTY did exactly that a couple of years ago – and fought tooth and nail to protect the Catholic Church’s right to religious freedom by OPPOSING OBAMACARE.

The Church – SUPPORTED OBAMACARE – and now that it’s been FORCED on us (with their help, mind you) – they want to complain because it’s taking away their religious liberty?

Pfft! The legislation THEY SUPPORTED took away basically ALL OF MY LIBERTY.

Patient – heal thyself!

HondaV65 on February 13, 2012 at 4:06 PM

Wow…a lot of Catholic hate there buddy.

1) The Bishops are spiritual leaders, not political leaders. I follow the Theology of the Roman Catholic Church, but as it was the case with Obamacare, which is NOT Theology, any and all Bishops who supported this terrible policy were wrong.

2) Stop with your ridiculous propaganda. The majority of “Catholics” who voted for Obama are hardly Catholics and they could careless about what the Bishops say or do not say on any subject religious, policy, politics, etc.

The media has been pushing a poll of Nominal/Cafeteria Catholics (nominal/cafeteria meaning that they are not catholic) If you look at a poll of who practicing Catholics voted for, those of us who go to Mass at least once a week on Sunday, we overwhelmingly voted for John McCain and Sarah Palin!!

Now you want to blame practicing Catholics for the stupidity of non-Catholics who YOU and the media call Catholic because they were born to Catholic parents. Give me a break. Stop with your silliness.

3) Reading your post, this has more to do with a deep seated hatred you have for the Church, Obamacare being just one more excuse for to hater Her, than anything else.

Sorry buddy, the majority of practicing Catholics dislike Obamacare and the majority of pracitcing Catholics did not vote for Obama.

Personally – I’m more concerned about Brian Terry losing his life to the guns of Fast and Furious. Brian Terry wasn’t complicent in that program like the Catholic Church was with ObamaCare.

Both this diktat and the Fast and Furious fiasco were assaults on American liberty and our rights under the Constitution. It’s not Brian Terry’s loss of life or the bishops’ foolishness regarding the passing of Obamacare that should be our focus. We should be looking at the larger implications of Obama’s attack on both the first and second amendments. In both instances he’s attacking our freedom. But with Fast and Furious he was covertly aggressive, with Obamacare he is overtly aggressive.

Look man – he’s telling you that a majority of Catholics at large either support, or personally practice birth control.

This is a fact. Every poll shows this to be true. Go to the churches – I’ve been to Catholic Churches and I’ve been to Mormon Churches. When I’ve been in the Catholic Churches – I don’t see very many large families.

In the Mormon Churches I’ve been too – SMALL FAMILIES are unusual.

This is because – Mormon church members are serious about what their anti-birth control principle while Catholics are not.

You can be offended by that – but I’m not questioning your dedication just the dedication of MOST Catholics on this issue. Maybe if your religious leaders would quit spending time trying to support big government money grabs for wealth distribution – they might have more time to “hone” the birth control message for their troopies sitting in the pews.

Just a thought.

HondaV65 on February 13, 2012 at 4:13 PM

Honda,

1) I have to question your honesty of going into any Catholic Church during a Sunday Mass. If you had, you would see large families as I do.

2) You can’t lump together so call Catholics who go inside a Catholic Church on Easter and Christams with TRUE AND REAL practicing Catholics who go to Mass at least every Sunday, Holy DAy of obligation and many every single day of their lives!!

3) What YOU and the media are calling MOST Catholics is NOT Catholic individuals. Get it yet?

I hate the Catholic Church as much as I hate Obama – which is … I don’t hate either.

The only talking point you have is to attack me – but buddy, that’s not gonna get you out of the current mess you find yourself in.

You see – YOUR LEADERS endorsed, either vocally – or through their own silence – OBAMACARE. And in that legislation – which the Catholic Church approved of because … “hey universal healthcare for the poor is great ya know” … in that legislation was the poison pill they now complain of.

There were PLENTY of people warning your church that ObamaCare was poison – yet your leaders refused to hear.

Nope, you will be calling us when no one is left. We will be gone thanks to our current government. There will be no one left to protect your freedom because you allowed you hate for the Church and us Catholics to shadow your moral obligation to protect the Freedom and Right of everyone, whether you agree with them or not.

You are clueless, clueless as to how many of us are involved, physically and spiritually, in stopping Obama’s grab for power.

Did you go to the March for Life on the anniversary of Roe v. Wade? did you? over 300,000 individuals went and countless of them were Roman Catholic marching in Washington for the Right of the unborn.

Don’t presume to know, in order to justify your petty hate for the Church, what we practicing Catholics do or not do, believe or do not believe.

1) I have to question your honesty of going into any Catholic Church during a Sunday Mass. If you had, you would see large families as I do.

Hey doofus – I didn’t say I didn’t see large families – I said that large families are RARE – they aren’t the exception – but they are the RULE in the Mormon church because the Mormon church is serious about it’s anti-birth control stance while yours is not.

2) You can’t lump together so call Catholics who go inside a Catholic Church on Easter and Christams with TRUE AND REAL practicing Catholics who go to Mass at least every Sunday, Holy DAy of obligation and many every single day of their lives!!

And you can’t separate them. You really don’t know how many Catholics there are – or how many of them are really committed to the church do you? So why are you complaining to me about me not knowing a fact that you don’t know either?

3) What YOU and the media are calling MOST Catholics is NOT Catholic individuals. Get it yet?

So what does that mean? They go to hell? They were Baptised in the church, confirmed in the church, married in the church … they may not show up every mass but hey … they’re still Catholics right? Doesn’t the church STILL COUNT THEM whenever they brag about being the largest Christian Church in the world? Can’t have it both ways bro.

I hate the Catholic Church as much as I hate Obama – which is … I don’t hate either.

The only talking point you have is to attack me – but buddy, that’s not gonna get you out of the current mess you find yourself in.

You see – YOUR LEADERS endorsed, either vocally – or through their own silence – OBAMACARE. And in that legislation – which the Catholic Church approved of because … “hey universal healthcare for the poor is great ya know” … in that legislation was the poison pill they now complain of.

There were PLENTY of people warning your church that ObamaCare was poison – yet your leaders refused to hear.

OWN IT.

HondaV65 on February 13, 2012 at 4:23 PM

“OWN IT”? Are you serious? you are the one who has no argument, no logical stance.

Why would I own something I did not support? care to explain?

And you can’t be honest. Of course you hate and you hate with deep passion. Your posts ooze with hate, but either your are very dishonest to not admit it or you are blind to your own hate. I hope is the latter.

What you don’t realize is that YOU ARE IN THE SAME MESS AS ME!!! you think this only affects the Roman Catholic Church and PRACTICING Catholics. THIS LAW AFFECTS ALL OF US!!!

We either unite and stop this administration or we fall and hang together, it doesn’t matter whether you are Catholic or not.

But you much rather focus on the failure of SOME leaders in the American Roman Catholic Church than uniting with those of us who agree with you that Obamacare is a disaster. You much rather spit and punch the Church than uniting with us practicing Catholics who agree with you that Obamacare is evil.

You, me, our family, our friends, the business owners in our community, EVERYONE is in this mess. So, will you unite with us Catholics who know Obamacare is evil, or do you feel more comfortable throwing petty insults, throwing Liberal propaganda around that make you comfortable in your hate for the Church.

you want a million man March into Washington, c’mon, let us you and I put it together. Easy to insult and throw silly insults, strawman arguments, memes, etc, why don’t you unite with me and let us call the Catholic leaders that agree with us and we march in Washington. What do you say?

“OWN IT”? Are you serious? you are the one who has no argument, no logical stance.

Cpt. Kirk on February 13, 2012 at 4:34 PM

My logical stance is that the Catholic Church EARNED this pain by supporting ObamaCare. You want me to list all the Catholics who supported it.

Can you list a single one (religious leader that is) that opposed the FINAL ObamaCare bill?

You can’t escape this fact bro – and that’s why this is YOUR problem and you should OWN IT.

I wish you good luck – because you ARE getting $crewed here – however, it was totally predictable from the beginning and the Tea Party was SCREAMING at everyone that ObamaCare would do things like this.

So, will you unite with us Catholics who know Obamacare is evil, or do you feel more comfortable throwing petty insults, throwing Liberal propaganda around that make you comfortable in your hate for the Church.

Cpt. Kirk on February 13, 2012 at 4:34 PM

No, I won’t unite with Catholics to protect their rights. I was in Washington, DC to protest ObamaCare. I did everything I could do as an individual to keep it from passing. When Michelle Bachmann called for people to descend on the Capitol – I was there. I was there when we put a million Tea Party folk into Washington DC in 2009.

WHERE WERE YOUR LEADERS?

Oh – that’s right, they were working with Obama to craft an acceptable version of ObamaCare.

This is all part of a larger struggle–between moral principles and the sexual revolution. Some of you don’t realize how old this fight is and dismiss the idea that the ancients had the same problem. But the Church has been in this fight for at least two thousand years. And before Christian theologians came on the scene Roman Stoic Philosophers had already been railing against the use of contraceptive devices and abortifacients such as silphium, arguing they violated the natural law and thereby broke down society by promoting sexual license. Eventually Rome evolved from a society that grew strong by practicing family-friendly virtues, to a society that grew weak through sexual dissolution. This is not about family planning. It’s about sleeping around.

Hey doofus – I didn’t say I didn’t see large families – I said that large families are RARE – they aren’t the exception – but they are the RULE in the Mormon church because the Mormon church is serious about it’s anti-birth control stance while yours is not.

HondaV65 on February 13, 2012 at 4:32 PM

You haven’t been right about any other screed you posted about Catholics, so Irish Catholic you are not.

Hey doofus – I didn’t say I didn’t see large families – I said that large families are RARE – they aren’t the exception – but they are the RULE in the Mormon church because the Mormon church is serious about it’s anti-birth control stance while yours is not.

Oh, here it comes, the personal insults come out. “doofus”. Please, again, I question your honesty since I know quite a few Roman Catholic Churches in the USA which are filled with families that are very large. You are lying. Typical of Catholic haters.

And you can’t separate them. You really don’t know how many Catholics there are – or how many of them are really committed to the church do you? So why are you complaining to me about me not knowing a fact that you don’t know either?
How about this brother …

Of course you can seperate them as you did just below! You are very dishonest! So, is your poll number correct about practicing Catholics supporting Democrats correct or we do not know how many practicing Catholics there are? Can’t have it both ways.

However, Catholics who attend Mass weekly are still more likely to be Democrats, with 37 percent self-identifying with the party and another 18 percent saying they lean Democrat.
Hmm – seems your pews are contaminated with Obama supporters …So what does that mean? They go to hell? They were Baptised in the church, confirmed in the church, married in the church … they may not show up every mass but hey … they’re still Catholics right? Doesn’t the church STILL COUNT THEM whenever they brag about being the largest Christian Church in the world? Can’t have it both ways bro.

You know next to nothing about Catholic Theology. You can be baptized, married, etc in a Catholic Church, it is MEANINGLESS unless you practice Her teachings, dogmas, etc.

Again, I have personally never heard the Church brag about Her number of members. This is a number which I hear thrown out by individuals like you, the media, etc.

(YAWN) … smite me then!

Yes, no respect for anyone’s family, friends, etc. I won’t smite you. I pray for easily led tools who are beyond lost like you. But you will always have the chance to salvation as long as you are alive.

You are what is known as a keyboard warrior.

Name a single Catholic leader that opposed the final version of ObamaCare? You can’t.

As far as I know the Bishops of Illinois, Missouri, etc did not agree with Obamacare. Just because YOU say otherwise it doesn’t make it so.

Just because you chose to listen to the media and believe that all Catholic leaders in the USA supported Obamacare, it doesn’t make it so!

Start with Bill Donahue!

oh wait, you are such a simpleton that you believe only a few Bishops are the Catholic leaders. Never mind.

Heh, yeah – her name was “Melna” … a little Filipa gal I met about 30 years ago in P.I. who said she was tested and clean. LOL – turned out to be a trip to the doctor! Lesson learned for me.

That’s usually what happens when people make mistakes – THEY PAY FOR THEM.

Let the Catholic Church pay for it’s support of ObamaCare.

Yeap, you make it obvious now. You want the Church and Her members to be hurt. This sound more like you have a crazy personal vendetta against the Church and less and less that you care about freedom or anyonne else, but yourself.

Again, you assume, thanks to your blinding hate for the Church, that this only affects the Church and Her members. You need to make this only about the Church since it focuses your intense hate for Her.

I’d hate to tell Notre Dame I told you so, but in fact a number of Catholics, myself included, did warn Notre Dame in 2009 about inviting Obama to deliver that commencement speech. My objection was specific to the honorary law degree Notre Dame awarded Obama for that appearance, a jarring decision given Obama’s previous attacks on the Catholic Church’s positions on life, especially in the Illinois Senate. Now the same law school that awarded Obama a law school degree is shocked, shocked to find that Obama thinks he can arrogate to himself the power to dictate to religious organizations that they have to facilitate actions which are forbidden by their core doctrinal values.

Instead of pecking out tirades aimed at me, when all I’m doing is holding a mirror up to you …

Why not go to your church tonight – find your priest, and tell him that you want an audience with the arch-bishop of your diocese – and let’s see a VIDEO posted on YouTube of you telling – no DEMANDING that he lead a movement within the church to oppose Obama?

If you’re serious about “your church”.

But as usual – you’re not anyone remotely serious – you’re just a guy pecking words out on a keyboard anonymously and safely.

Let’s see you take a stand. I’ve been in combat – in Afghanistan and Iraq – I guarantee you your church leaders are’t as dangerous as the guys I had to face.

So put your money where your mouth is and start mobilizing the people in your pews.

When you’ve done that – then come back and ask the rest of us to get off our asses and help.

Not sure if it’s been mentioned before, but the school isn’t called “Notre Dame University,” the name is “University of Notre Dame” (or “University of Notre Dame du Lac” in full). NDU is an entirely unrelated institution somewhere in the East, if I recall.

Also, Honda, the Church doesn’t necessarily oppose a program like ObamaCare in theory – nor would most religious institutions, I imagine – but that doesn’t mean they’re therefore bound to accept the outcomes of the program when something goes horribly wrong.

Are there too many “Catholic” politicians out there? Sure; Pelosi is the worst of ’em – I hope! – and there’re plenty who backed her. That doesn’t change what the faith itself stands for, nor does it give the Church’s stamp of approval.

I take it you’re pretty miffed about the whole health care fiasco, as we all are… so while you might not care to support Catholics on this one perhaps you could just stick to your guns, so to speak, and remain opposed to ObamaCare – the result should be the same either way; one more voice against this travesty. God knows we’ll need all the help we can get!

No, I won’t unite with Catholics to protect their rights. I was in Washington, DC to protest ObamaCare. I did everything I could do as an individual to keep it from passing. When Michelle Bachmann called for people to descend on the Capitol – I was there. I was there when we put a million Tea Party folk into Washington DC in 2009.

WHERE WERE YOUR LEADERS?

Oh – that’s right, they were working with Obama to craft an acceptable version of ObamaCare.

Well they got it … so why are they complaining now?

HondaV65 on February 13, 2012 at 4:41 PM

Honda,

Oh do shut-up. Thanks for proving what I already knew and you confirmed it. I put the bait out and like a good mindless fish, you took it.

This has NOTHING to do with freedom of anything for you. You are a sad little keyboard warrior troll whose hate for the Church blinds you.

You are clueless since countless of us Catholics also support the Tea Party. But again, this is not about freedom of anything for you.

You and I both know that this Obamacare law affects many more individuals than Catholics, but you simple, petty, ridiculous, chidlish, moronic hate for the Church will not allow you to protect the Rights of your fellow Tea Partiers who happen to be Catholic.

By not uniting with Catholics, Souther Baptists, and countless others, who many are not even religious, you are in essence saying that you do not care about this law. You much rather that this law destroys everyone’s life, catholic or not, than to stand up side by side with Catholics and countless others to protect every single American’s Rights and Freedom.

You have zero credibility, keyboard warrior. Keep on spewing hate, that is all you have left.

Instead of pecking out tirades aimed at me, when all I’m doing is holding a mirror up to you …

Why not go to your church tonight – find your priest, and tell him that you want an audience with the arch-bishop of your diocese – and let’s see a VIDEO posted on YouTube of you telling – no DEMANDING that he lead a movement within the church to oppose Obama?

If you’re serious about “your church”.

But as usual – you’re not anyone remotely serious – you’re just a guy pecking words out on a keyboard anonymously and safely.

Let’s see you take a stand. I’ve been in combat – in Afghanistan and Iraq – I guarantee you your church leaders are’t as dangerous as the guys I had to face.

So put your money where your mouth is and start mobilizing the people in your pews.

When you’ve done that – then come back and ask the rest of us to get off our asses and help.

Until then … live with what your leaders have bought you.

HondaV65 on February 13, 2012 at 4:53 PM

Honda,

using your lack of logic on you, well then, why don’t you live with what your leaders in the United States government have bought you? Stupid and illogical, right? So, stop saying stupid and illogical things. Thanks

Again, you are clueless as to who I am and what I do, keyboard warrior. LOL

And to show you know NEXT to nothing about the Church, I don’t need to go to any priest to ask for an audience with my Bishop, clueless keyboard warrior. Who says I haven’t done this? who says I didn’t oppose, publicly, Obamacare? you?

You NEED to believe what you believe against the Church and Catholics in order to justify your hate for Her.

Yeah, yeah, I have heard it a million times from Left wing keyboard warriors, “I fought in this war and that war…” prove it?

You hate the Church, you’ve also proven that you hate Catholics and now run away when your behind has been handed to you, keyboard warrior.

Facts and logic are things that individuals like you NEED to run away from.

When you prove that you care more about the Freedom and Rights of all Americans, despite their religion or lack thereof, I will take you seriously, until then, my keyboard warrior, it was very nice to expose a charlatan like you.

Heh, yeah – her name was “Melna” … a little Filipa gal I met about 30 years ago in P.I. who said she was tested and clean. LOL – turned out to be a trip to the doctor! Lesson learned for me.

That’s usually what happens when people make mistakes – THEY PAY FOR THEM.

Let the Catholic Church pay for it’s support of ObamaCare.

Heh. A man who is oh so serious about the rules, but violates one — with a probable Catholic no less.

VD score — Catholics 1, Honda 1.

Oh, and Honda — I didn’t play around until marriage, and I’m a Catholic.

Score — Catholics 0, Honda 1 — and this is a game you don’t want to win.

As for paying for “it’s [sic] support of ObamaCare”, I’m even more incensed than you that the Conference chose to lay down with the dogs, but I’m still gonna do my best to kill every flea I find.

The best thing — in fact the only really religion-neutral thing — that can come out of this is not a special exemption for Catholics [because that one, should Obama offer it, is a Trojan Horse] — but a conscience exemption for everyone which is NOT based upon forgoing Social Security or Medicare in the future.

In other words, you file a form saying that your conscience forbids you from paying for “reproductive rights” or whatever and you are then allowed either to have no insurance plan or an insurance plan which doesn’t have the offending coverages. It’s not enough to say that you won’t avail yourself of the coverages, because your money will go into a pool and be used for someone else’s “reproductive rights”, thus violating your conscience.

You can see where this is going. Freedom of conscience is the crowbar which will dismantle Obamacare, if it is used properly — and we Catholics aren’t the only ones who should be able to use it.

Heh, yeah – her name was “Melna” … a little Filipa gal I met about 30 years ago in P.I. who said she was tested and clean. LOL – turned out to be a trip to the doctor! Lesson learned for me.

That’s usually what happens when people make mistakes – THEY PAY FOR THEM.

Let the Catholic Church pay for it’s support of ObamaCare.

Heh. A man who is oh so serious about the rules, but violates one — with a probable Catholic no less.

VD score — Catholics 1, Honda 1.

Oh, and Honda — I didn’t play around,even after marriage, and I’m a Catholic.

Score — Catholics 0, Honda 1 — and this is a game you don’t want to win.

As for paying for “it’s [sic] support of ObamaCare”, I’m even more incensed than you that the Conference chose to lay down with the dogs, but I’m still gonna do my best to kill every flea I find.

The best thing — in fact the only really religion-neutral thing — that can come out of this is not a special exemption for Catholics [because that one, should Obama offer it, is a Trojan Horse] — but a conscience exemption for everyone which is NOT based upon forgoing Social Security or Medicare in the future.

In other words, you file a form saying that your conscience forbids you from paying for “reproductive rights” or whatever and you are then allowed either to have no insurance plan or an insurance plan which doesn’t have the offending coverages. It’s not enough to say that you won’t avail yourself of the coverages, because your money will go into a pool and be used for someone else’s “reproductive rights”, thus violating your conscience.

You can see where this is going. Freedom of conscience is the crowbar which will dismantle Obamacare, if it is used properly — and we Catholics aren’t the only ones who should be able to use it.

Funny how most non-Catholics who are expert at what Catholics do never heard of Natural Family Planning.

Look it up. You might learn something about what real Catholics do instead of loooking like an ignorant liberal.

Roy Rogers on February 13, 2012 at 4:24 PM

I am not a RC, and I know what you are talking about.

Just last night I was talking to someone and mocking that laughable ‘98% of RCs have used birth control at some point!’ figure the dopey Dems have been spouting everywhere the last few days. I told her for that figure to possibly be true, they must be including NFP, which really shouldn’t be included because it’s not artificial BC and therefore its usage is not a violation of the RCC’s tenets (the heart of the matter at hand, not BC per se.) Of course, the dopey Dems either don’t know that, or don’t care about it because in their eyes mentioning that fact would lessen their argument.

Second, in the moment in which we vote to tax someone else proportionately more than we tax ourselves, we commit theft from that person. The sin is compounded to covetousness when we claim that the reason we are charging that person more is because they are rich.

Similarly, if I am rich and I pay less proportionally than others, I have stolen from them.

It doesn’t matter how noble or minor the purpose of the tax, theft has occurred.

This is a Christian position. Jesus didn’t say that we should ease the rich person’s path to heaven by confiscating the work of his hands — for that merely is theft on our part and works no good on the rich man’s soul. When Jesus told us the Parable of the Good Samaritan, you’ll note that the Good Samaritan did not assume that the innkeeper (another rich person, one must assume) would pay for the care of the now-penniless Levite — no, the Samaritan assumed nothing — he took the cost upon himself, even though he was in a foreign land.

He charges the rich to use their money for good, but he does not force them to.

This position is certainly in keeping with Catholic teaching — the Church does not require any set amount in contribution from any member — there is no tithing requirement. What the church does require of us as individuals is almsgiving — that we feed the hungry and take care of the sick. I’m sure the local priest cares if I fail to put a coin or two into the collection, but the Church as a whole doesn’t — as long as I do what the Lord said I should do.

So the Church gives its members great latitude in terms of how they fulfill a call to action. For the Bishops in Conference to put on blinders and abrogate to Caesar that individual call — a Caesar who is often at variance with the teachings of the Church — is breathtaking in its stupidity and rejection of the Lord’s own acts.

I would expect Protestant churches, with their even stronger doctrine of individual relationships to the Lord, to be equally against this usurption of individual initiative via theft by the State.

So, if the Church doesn’t oppose a program like Obamacare in theory — well, maybe it should. When Jesus said “Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s, and unto God what is God’s”, he was, in one sentence, saying something to the Scribes — that you may be required to give to Caesar what he wants, but never let that stop you from giving to God what He requires of you. And here we are, at that fork in the road.

the church- and certainly notre dame- largely salivated all over obama and obamacare-basically they lovingly held out their necks and obama chopped off their heads.

as many of us- who are not even christians let alone catholics- thought that he would.

i’m a pagan. i object to the whole of obamacare (and romenycare for that matter) as a violation of not only my religious beliefs but a violation of my rights under the constitution. it’s ceding control of your body and conscience to the state. even atheists and freethinkers should be concerned .

somehow i don’t have a lot of sympathy- you were asking for it, whoring about to other masters ; he obliged. why are you so special now, so much more deserving of exemptions than individuals and other institutions? just because you assumed that if you supported barry at the expense of some of your beliefs, he’d cut you a shady deal and the hell with the rest of us with perhaps non-religious based objections to obamacare ?

the whole of the unconstitutional monstrosity needs to go- not just the bits catholics object to. that should be the focus. not witch slapping one another over religious beliefs and contradictions in the catholic church and among the laity . obamacare will poison everything it touches. there’s no compromise with the malignant narcissists who passed and now administrate obamacare which was apparent from its sordid beginnings and devious passage. it’s the christmas gift from nancy you are prevented by law from refusing to accept.

free will doesn’t come from a mystical god being, bestowed upon everyone- it comes from the congress and POTUS. because all that inalienable right crap from the constitution is just outdated and racist or something. jefferson had slaves- it must invalidate the entire bill of rights.

i could care less personally about the catholic church but i recognize that the state has no right to impose upon their rights to over see and protect their devotees’s religious freedom . obama just found out he’s not jesus even though you aided and abetted him in the act of subverting you and your authority. you rendered to Caesar something that wasn’t his;i am curious what exactly you expected?

Henry didn’t want to separate himself from the Catholics, he wanted to be head of the Church so he could divorce and marry whom he wished. He viewed this as essential — for he thought he needed a son, and all he had were daughters. So, in his unknowledge (we know now that Henry himself was the provider of what would determine the sex of his child), Henry tried to destroy the Church’s links to Rome.

In the end, he was unsuccessful — to the point where Oxford is, in essence, a Catholic university, and the hymn “Faith of Our Fathers” describes fidelity to our Catholic faith in the eye of horrible tortures. What’s interesting is how many Episcopal parishes, faced with deviation of the Church of England from orthodoxy, are choosing to rejoin the Church, or even to separate from the Anglican Communion and form, in concert with like-minded Episcopalians their own “Anglican Catholic Church”

Ethically, I’m in agreement with you, even as I disagree with your battering of my religion.

i did nothing but describe the church leadership’s actions vis a vis obamacare. that’s not a battering but an observation and opinion on a course of action that can be factually documented . it is a critique of the leaders of the church and obamacare not of your religion.

IMO, as a former Catholic who now attends Mass when I can at a church that maintained the dogmatic standards as originally designed, I hope the bishops’ refusal holds – far too much is at stake.

As for Notre Dame, THANK YOU, Ed, you hit the nail on the head. Geez – when they gave Obama that bully pulpit, I called and voiced my frustration at their hypocrisy. Now O is calling in his chits. Catholic institutions cannot have it both ways. It would have been nice if they’d taken a stand, oh, 70 years ago and held it. O has reason to believe he can get away with this – too many higher-up Catholic “leaders” sold out on their belief in the strength of the individual. They opted to ask the government for more money. The former archbishop of Mpls./St. Paul actually encouraged Catholics to go to the governor to ask for more money for the poor. Socialism never resulted in an increase in any church membership – that request was foolish at best. The current archbishop seems to be doing better.

As for “real” Catholics and “attendee” catholics – a lot of debate here. Overall, it’s healthy, I hope. The Catholic Church has gone through crises in the past – they eventually got through them. This one – well, the bishops will have to stay firm, regardless whether the church attendees agree with them or not. Why? We either get rid of O and his socialist tendencies or I’m afraid, we may lose everything our ancestors created. It won’t be pretty.

Feb. 12, 2012: The DAY Obama LOST the ELECTION.Yesterday after masses across the country, Bishops’ letters condemning Obama’s “accommodation. Our Bishop’s letter (posted in the link) was so strongly worded, I suspect excommunication, exorcism, or a combination of both will be the next step. And several of the parishioners didn’t think the letter went far enough!!!

The Catholic church has not only been tolerating and even SUPPORTING all kinds of Demoncrat actions that are directly against the Christian faith for decades…and now they’re all panicking when its’ THEIR turn at the chopping block.

Own it, you SoCon wolves in sheep’s clothing. I just hope we aren’t too late to stop this travesty by peaceful means.

16 years of Catholic education here – I have zero sympathy for the Catholic Church on this one. Constitutionally they are correct, but for decades the Catholic bishops, clergy and sisters have been supporting one lefty doctrine after another – ultimately providing support for Obamacare. If the Pope and bishops announced strong support for capitalism, private property and renounced the use of government force to effect income redistribution and other lefty goals, I might reconsider. But as it is, the lefty Catholic Church brought this on themselves – let’em squeal. Render unto Caesar indeed…

I do not comprehend how some people can sit at their computers and condone this desecration of the First Amendment because the Catholic Church “deserves” this.

Regardless of whatever other positions a group or individual takes, when any of their freedoms are under attack, we must do everything in our power to stop every advance this administration makes against our gods-given rights.

I’m not sitting here saying everyone should suddenly convert to Catholicism and toe the Church’s line. The Church, as an organization, is indeed on the wrong side of many issues. Oppose them where they are wrong, but do not abandon them when they are right!

This is the great tactic of the Socialists: Divide and Conquer. When you can target one group and strip them of one of their rights, while the rest of the populace jeers and cheers, you have succeeded in reducing that right to nothing, for everyone.

Not every Catholic believes that taking birth control pills amounts to a sin against humanity. Perhaps that was true 2000 years ago when the world population was insignificant, but not so today.

bayam on February 13, 2012 at 2:12 PM

Meaningless.

It’s not what “percentage” of Catholics believe in this or that. It’s what the Magisterium teaches. It’s all in the Catechism.
The Church does not base its teachings on public opinion. That’s shallow and stupid. Sort of like liberals.

Look man – he’s telling you that a majority of Catholics at large either support, or personally practice birth control.

And your point is–what? If even a single Catholic organization objects, why must it follow the dictates of Obama rather than those of its Church? How would this not violate religious freedom?

It’s not a matter of how many Catholics practice birth control. It’s a matter of my Church, right or wrong. The government doesn’t get to tell our bishops what’s moral and what isn’t. In other words, Don’t Tread on Me.

Not every Catholic believes that taking birth control pills amounts to a sin against humanity. Perhaps that was true 2000 years ago when the world population was insignificant, but not so today.

bayam on February 13, 2012 at 2:12 PM

The concerns are identical as in the ancient world. Roman Stoic Philosophers were not worried about population control, they were worried about a loosening of morality. The same worries permeate the Church today.

I have to agree the Church has been leaning leftward for decades. But this doesn’t mitigate Obama’s outrageous assault on our liberties. An attack on the Church is an attack on all of us. He is acting far beyond his legitimate authority.

As for the need to control the population, the opposite is true in the Western world. Europe is already suffering because it lacks a sufficient population to support its entitlements. Western culture is directly threatened by the Muslim influx imported to offset a declining birth rate.

As for us, more and more young people choose to remain single or else to marry but not have children. How does this help us deal with government ponzi schemes that depend on continuous population growth?

If the Catholic Church doesn’t stand up to Obama on this, it won’t be very long before Obama decrees that the church must recognize and even perform homosexual marriages.

Doug Piranha on February 13, 2012 at 10:11 PM

The Catholic haters on this site will call you crazy while secretly hoping that’s exactly what happens. Whatever it takes to destroy the church. Of course, the church cannot be destroyed but you can damage people’s faith. That is a seriously, eternally-punishable offense.