A stage IV colorectal cancer patient died earlier this month. He was keeping a blog called http://mikeyversuscancer.com. I don't know whether he was a member of this forum or not. His blog documents his decision at one point in his journey, to forgo evidence based medicine and instead go with naturopathic treatment. While it is anyone's right to make their own decisions about treatment, and there is no certainty that he would have lived any longer or with better quality of life by using evidence based medicine, he probably would have.

What makes his case so tragic is that he leaves behind a wife and two children who are now hurting financially, based on his treatment decision. The quack treatments were not covered by insurance because they are not proven effective. Now his widow is encouraging people to donate to a gofundme site to help fund the daughters' college education, which perhaps they would not have needed to do if the money hadn't been wasted. I realize that even treatment for evidence based medicine can take its financial toll, but they apparently had good insurance so this would have been manageable.

You can see her posts on facebook.

The cautionary tale here, is that when patients pursue unproven or quack medicine that require payment out of pocket, they may not only be hurting themselves, but also their families. There are many naturopaths and other quacks out there that are trying to separate patients from their family's money with little to nothing in return and preying on the vulnerability of cancer patients. You can even see some of them linked to Mike's blog. These sites only show the survivors. Here is one that didn't make it, and anyone considering this should know.

risto,Thank you for your post.Very Sad to hear what happened to him & his family!

...forgo evidence based medicine and instead go with naturopathic treatment.

I do wish though that more hospitals could have a naturopath included in the team. It does feel like oncologist say No to all ‘things’ because they lack sufficient knowledge about ‘other things’ outside their profession. This might make patients not tell.. experiment on their own... and that is also wrong. Not everone has the knowledge like for example member rp1954. To be able to compliment conventional medicine with naturopathic medicine is what I feel would be good and I personally would love it if they had a naturopath (that we could talk to) at the cancer center where my husband is treated. They don’t But risto you say: “naturopaths and other quacks” so does that mean you are against anything added to conventional treatments?

risto wrote:..... lived any longer or with better quality of life by using evidence based medicine, he probably would have.

What makes his case so tragic is that he leaves behind a wife and two children who are now hurting financially, based on his treatment decision. .......

I am sorry to hear that.I think that you hit on the key. Evidence based medicine means the good results, the poor results and everything in between are monitored over time and wisely (and if I may add truthfully) shared within a medical community that also has the wisdom of critical interaction. I do not know enough of these alternatives and I have the impressive input from my lovely wife who prefers natural remedies to health issues, where possible researching things well.

INTERESTING- Is there a place for medication that also offers a 'placebo effect' to cancer patients? A healthy mind I am sure is also a key issue in fighting cancer. There are many ways to generate a healthy mind.

Aged 56 - I feel really young...Colo-Rectal Cancer T2 N1 M0March 2018 - DiagnosisApril-May 2018 Radiation+Chemo then a TIA (Minor Stroke). - Stopped Chemo.August 27th-November 2018 - Surgery and long, long recovery *Decided to live to 100 as I will get a telegram from Her Majesty the Queen when 100yrs old. I so, so want one.Am a Salvation Army chap so I complete 'knee drill' (prayer) to the Commander in Chief often. For myself personally this helps me through.

I am very frustrated at seeing the holistic doctors conning people into thinking that they can cure your cancer. It leads so many astray and it makes decision making so difficult when it comes to us folks who are battling cancer.

They have no proven history of success, like the medical profession. If they really want to help everything they do should be free, since none of it is proven.

What could be taken into account, is that before this man received a diagnosis ofcancer, he had a history of making poor decisions and wasn't so good at the biggerpicture/future scenario. There are many people like that.

When I was dx four years ago a work colleague that I had dealings with was also dx with the exact same cancer. We saw each other weekly during the summers since he was in the marine business. I had my surgeries and was doing well but he refused surgery due to the fact his doctor told him he most likely would need a permanent colostomy. I was dumbfounded as to why he was so against the bag after all he was in his late fifties and how much crawling under and fixing boats did he really want to do going forward. "You could hire someone to do the work" I told him over and over. Finally I just told him flat out "It is either the bag or a box if you don't have surgery" He was a smart man but made stupid decisions and he still refused surgery. After a while a spot appeared on his lung and he was confident that doctors would just zap it away also the fact he had given up his 4 cans a day Pepsi habit would also chase the cancer away since he believed that cancer thrived on the sugar from his sodas. He was also buying overpriced natural potions that were going to stabilize then destroy his cancer cells. Unbelievable what lies are on the internet. Anyways the marina was all boarded up last summer, I just thought maybe he retired and I kind of forgot about him till the other day when I found his son on facebook to inquire about how he was doing. He had been housebound all summer and passed away last Halloween after a couple weeks with extreme pain in the hospital. For him his refusal to listen to doctors cost him dearly. I was dx on Halloween and I took the bag he took the box and passed on Halloween. Moral of the story...Listen to your doctors and do what they say. You can live with a bag and have a normal life. Most important stay away from internet quacks that will sell you overpriced potions to cure cancer.

I had several people telling me that they would never let the surgeon cut them or they would never take chemo , but rather go for the natural approach. What they don’t see is that anything at the end is chemical, there is no dichotomy between «natural» and «chemical».

Some natural remedies are used in official medicine in other countries like for example Ganoderma lucidum and a lot of natural extracts are being studied because they can kill cancer cells in vitro, such as resveratrol or curcumin. But I would only trust a certified doctor to prescribe them as support to chemo or after chemo is finished.

I believe that suppplements, meditation and other non “science based” alternatives are very useful and have helped enhance, ameliorate and yes helped people stay healthy and most probably cured some. Some of these are things that have been used for millennia. Yes, they need to be used as complimentary tactics to the standard method of care which is the most effective way to deal with the disease. Personally I’m certain that these alternatives have helped me remain cancer free and pretty healthy for a 55 year old. No I wouldn’t have made it without the surgeries and chemo, mostly the surgeries though. However had I been diagnosed stage 4 with little chance of survival with “science based” medicine you bet I’d be full on trying alternatives, because you never know.

I'm not at all saying that "natural" methods cannot help, but one should be aware of internet sites / purveyors who have highly detailed explanations of what needs to be done, and then it turns out that their special supplements will do the job - entire books even. (If it smells like snake oil...……….) I never sought the help of a naturopath - wasn't necessary for me. But as I understand it they can be a big help, often in conjunction with conventional treatment. A good naturopath is not selling their recommended supplements and they are educated - they recommend things and work with the patient. It's called complementary medicine for a reason - in my opinion good "natural" medicine works in concert with "conventional medicine" - at least some of the time.

Whether planning on conventional medical treatment or alternatives or both, when surgery is possible, that should always be the first approach. All treatments have a much better chance if a visible / primary tumor is removed.

Gosh, from the angry verbiage and denunciations, I thought this guy was going to be a real refusenik.

Nope, he did 9 rounds of folfox-Avastin, got hammered; did Erbitux, got hammered; did Vectibix and had some success; did some rounds of surgery including Hipec, and then eventually, Stivarga. I do think he over read the negative aspect of the (now old wrt Avastin?) "2.1 month median improvement in survival" blurb; see Stephen J Gould's essay about "the median isn't the message".

One could even speculate to what degree he was a victim of oxaliplaten and over eager or inattentive oncology, that spooked him away from most chemo for a while. Certainly I wish someone could have said to him, "Well, we have a nice chemo," along with the CAM chemistry. Certainly not in the USA with the FDA. Because of our pharmas' total market domination in education and medicine as well oncologists' long standing hostility to oral chemo from the 80's, there is very little familiarity with UFT and its intelligent use. Ditto celecoxib, and I didn't see his mention of aspirin either.

You can see her posts on facebook.

Nope, not anymore. Wouldn't be surprised if someone informed her about this very thread and she took it down lest some unbalanced person bother her. PS. If anyone has notes or a copy, I'd be interested to know more.

The cautionary tale here...

...is to please be respectful to those who have shared their story and perhaps avoid injecting derogatory side issues like the CAM side links in the same thread. We need all the insights we can get, even if some that know so much better, don't.

CTCA did try to guide him back to some chemo, even pressured him, along with the naturopathic treatments. I for one think he did get benefits from his CAM treatments but didn't have enough information and (legal) options to optimize back to a better result, perhaps including oral immunochemo options. Again, "many thanks" to the FDA on UFT type of generics /sarc.

watchful, active researcher and caregiver for stage IVb/c CC since early 2010. surgeries 4/10 & 5/11; 8 yrs immuno-Chemo for mCRC, now no chemomost of 2010 Life Extension recommendations and possibilities + more, some (much) higher

Hi rp1954,I have to say your own input is quite incredible with your wife and I frequently find myself in quite admiration . I am not sure what your own background was or was it a massive learning curve when you entered a “ needs must situation” . However at the same time I would never be able or confident enough to do any of that . I was even thrown when my mum’s oncologist cautioned the amount of folic acid from green veg during chemo due to interactions . You have or acquired a lot of knowledge and I genuinely do believe it has helped your wife . It’s very impressive .For me once a product is advertised and marketed it has a responsibility to do what it claims. It would be great to see if there is room for more complimentary medicine but in a responsible fashion . Stu

rp1954 wrote:Gosh, from the angry verbiage and denunciations, I thought this guy was going to be a real refusenik.

Nope, he did 9 rounds of folfox-Avastin, got hammered; did Erbitux, got hammered; did Vectibix and had some success; did some rounds of surgery including Hipec, and then eventually, Stivarga. I do think he over read the negative aspect of the (now old wrt Avastin?) "2.1 month median improvement in survival" blurb; see Stephen J Gould's essay about "the median isn't the message".

One could even speculate to what degree he was a victim of oxaliplaten and over eager or inattentive oncology, that spooked him away from most chemo for a while. Certainly I wish someone could have said to him, "Well, we have a nice chemo," along with the CAM chemistry. Certainly not in the USA with the FDA. Because of our pharmas' total market domination in education and medicine as well oncologists' long standing hostility to oral chemo from the 80's, there is very little familiarity with UFT and its intelligent use. Ditto celecoxib, and I didn't see his mention of aspirin either.

You can see her posts on facebook.

Nope, not anymore. Wouldn't be surprised if someone informed her about this very thread and she took it down lest some unbalanced person bother her. PS. If anyone has notes or a copy, I'd be interested to know more.

The cautionary tale here...

...is to please be respectful to those who have shared their story and perhaps avoid injecting derogatory side issues like the CAM side links in the same thread. We need all the insights we can get, even if some that know so much better, don't.

CTCA did try to guide him back to some chemo, even pressured him, along with the naturopathic treatments. I for one think he did get benefits from his CAM treatments but didn't have enough information and (legal) options to optimize back to a better result, perhaps including oral immunochemo options. Again, "many thanks" to the FDA on UFT type of generics /sarc.

Thank you rp1954 for saying what I wanted to say. I debated posting my thoughts last night, which were similar to yours, but thought that maybe as a newbie here they might be taken as argumentative.I read Mike's blog yesterday from start to finish. It was obvious he had done a fair amount of research into alternative therapies.One other point that may not have been mentioned, from what I understood from the blog some of those therapies would have been covered by insurance if he had taken them in conjunction with standard chemo treatment.

boxhill wrote:I'm sorry, what is UFT? Can't find it in the terminology thread.

I missed this earlier. Maybe O Stoma Mia can add UFT and UFUR, branded names for the 5FU prodrug, tegafur-uracil, to her updated abbreviations and acronyms list. UFT was the original branded drug from Japan, fashioned from the pharma abbreviations for tegafur, FT, and U for uracil.

watchful, active researcher and caregiver for stage IVb/c CC since early 2010. surgeries 4/10 & 5/11; 8 yrs immuno-Chemo for mCRC, now no chemomost of 2010 Life Extension recommendations and possibilities + more, some (much) higher