Thinkman: It surprises me so little that you know about The Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-Day Saints finances. If you did you wouldn't make such
snide remarks as you just did. The audit that is done twice a year is from an
independent audit system. Yes, it is true that an auditor is called in each
Stake to perform both the Stake and associated units of the Stake. What you
fail to understand is that more individuals are excommunicated for using those
funds donated incorrectly. In fact, it is always under two person control from
the time it enters the Clerks office until it leaves. Every year as you are
aware tithing settlement is done so that individuals can see what they have
donated. They are then provided copies for tax purposes if they so wish to have
them filed.

Secondly, there is a difference between what is donated
and what the Church has. I bet you didn't know that the LDS Church
doesn't buy something unless the money is available. Yet, you honestly
think you know more than anyone where the money goes. Fact is once it leaves
your hand it is God's.

Thinkman Provo, UT"Yes, the LDS church is very rich thanks to the
faithful who pay their tithing so they can attend the temple and be in good
standing with their leaders."

The LDS faithful don't pay
tithing so they can attend the temple or please their leaders. They do it
because they love the Lord and show it by obeying Him. Why should it bother a
nonmember if the LDS Church has enough money to buy some property.

2. Their costs for a profitable venture in the last few years cost 1.5
billion (seems low from other sources I've read, more likely 3-5
billion)

3. You claimed the LDS church built the mall. My
understanding is their 'for-profit(prophet)' wings built the mall. If
the LDS church did then the government would surely stop their tax exemption
(which it should anyways until we get an audit).

4. We'll see
if this farm lands becomes malls, shopping centers, or some sort of other
profitable venture some day. The problem is the PROFITS are supposed to go to
help PEOPLE not build more profits. That's purely business, not divinely
inspired.

I can understand how the LDS would be happy. However, I find little joy in
this. My father managed the 6000 acres of farm land for over 30 years. It was
purchased in trust to assist those gathering to Independence. It was sold,
sadly, because it appears it was only an asset that needed to be converted.

@LValfre : The problem with your problem is that it is bogus--a straw man.

1)The $1.5 billion reported by the LDS church are separate funds
specifically designated for large scale disaster relief and humanitarian
projects and makes for an intellectually dishonest comparison to the cost of the
CCC. You fail to consider the enormous sums of money spent over the same time
period on the LDS Church's vast welfare system which assists untold numbers
of individuals and families.

2)Most credible sources put the cost of
CCC at $1.5 to $2 billion. $3 billion for that scale of a project is a stretch
and $5 billion approaches the realm of the absurd.

3) Most reasonable
people with a cursory knowledge of the structure of the LDS church understand
that saying the LDS church built CCC refers to the commercial, tax-paying
subsidiary that built it.

4) Stay open to the possibility that the
6000 acres of farm land will be used, gasp, as farm land, and will be
incorporated into the LDS church's welfare system for, you know, helping
people.

1-
No answer as to whether or not the church should also sell 1-2 acres that
surround the cairn and graves at the MMM site to the victim's ancestors.

2- The Fancher-Baker families have said they won't put up a mall,
a center, a hamburger joint, or commercial "carrots". They only want
the graves protected from sinking ground and erosion factors.

3- The
friends of the family association, are the ones who lobbied for/offered to
contribute to a simple Andy Gump or two. Years and lotsa letters later, there
was a 1-use AG that was completed on Sept. 9, 2007. Just in time for the 350+
visitors, media and church leaders who attended the 150th anniversary program on
Sept. 11.

4- Had this anniversary not shared the same date as
2001's tragedy, there would have been hundreds more trying to utilize one
toilet and a small asphalt lot at the end of a mile-long bumpy dirt road.

LDS's vast welfare system is primarily for mormons.
It's not the same as helping people when you pick and choose who gets the
help. There's no beating around the bush on this one ... there's been
so much more money spent on real estate, business, marketing, PR, etc. than
humanitarian aid it's sickening. The church is about growing far more than
it's about helping.

And if it's 1.5 billion for the CC
project and 1.5 billion for humanitarian aid ... lets look at the numbers. 1.5
billion for profit in 2-3 years vs 1.5 billion to help in 27 years.

Now you tell me where the priority lies when it comes to the money? Be honest
with yourself and have courage answering this one. You already know the answer.

@A voice of Reason: In my experience, the overwhelming majority of anti-mormon
criticism--whether willfully or out of simple ignorance--is based upon and/or is
centered around straw-man fallacies (along with, of course, all manner of other
types of faulty reasoning, intentional distortion and/or ad hominem attacks
thrown in for good measure).

So many critics form fixed-beliefs
which color the lens through which they see the world--reality, logic and
intellectual honesty notwithstanding.

Lately, I have grown weary of
seeing many critics repeatedly bray about the cost of CCC and selectively and
deceptively compare that cost to the reported humanitarian spending by the LDS
church since 1985, falsely implying that the LDS Church spent as much on one
commercial venture as it did on helping the poor over 25 years--ignoring, of
course, the much bigger picture of LDS Welfare spending and services over the
same time period.

GmaxD, if that's your overwhelming experience with anti-Mormon criticism,
you need to get in different circles. There is a brotherly way to share
constructive criticism. If someone is too thin-skinned or whiney, don't
deal with them. If they are sincere and factual the Bible says to share
"with gentleness and respect". (1Pet. 3:15)

I run into those
same criticisms from the anti-anti's. No facts, pure emotion, hurtful
comments. I move on.

Re the topic here, Jamshid Askar has reported a
kindness in the CoC selling your church this property. Shazandra has asked why
your church has not shown the same kindness to their victims' ancestors
from the MMM. Yet there is another 10 comments and no one replies: Ignorance
or apathy?

This is what gives any group a black eye. Refusing to
care, unless it's their baby who's crying.

To Filo Doughboy. Just visited the MMM locations last week-end and was
impressed by the monuments and stories told. All very nice. As for the LDS
Church not giving the property over to the relatives, I am just assuming but I
don't believe the Church needs the money and the location is also part of
Mormon history.

It seems the Comm of Christ (CoC) only view things in dollars and cents and
not much of the why's, how's, and purposes of things. It seems to me
that, for them, this land had no purpose other than to convert it to cash.

I remember visiting these sites several years ago. I didn't realize that
they were owned by the RLDS Church, but I'm not surprised. That church has
long shown a commitment to preserving the early history of the Restoration, and
the sites were wonderfully maintained. The LDS Church shares that commitment,
and I'm so glad the RLDS Church thought of us first when they needed to
sell these properties. Hopefully, if similar needs arise in the future, they
will continue to call us first, so these magnificent and historically
significant properties can continue to be enjoyed by future generations.

Shh, no one tell troboy1 that the LDS Church already owns one of the the nations
largest cattle ranches (290,000 acres) in Florida since 1950 to raise over
40,000 head of beef (food) for welfare and humanitarian service and they
recently purchased over another 380,000 acres of Timber land in the pan handle
in Fla. Hmmmm - Trees build things, (homes, churches etc.) That acquisition
made the LDS church the largest private land holder in Fla, roughly owning about
5% of the state of Fla. Bottom line....6,000 acres in MO is a drop in the
bucket compared to their existing land holdings.