I'm incredibly curious about how to properly do a shreding solo over that wierd ass black metal evil dissonant kind of riff
i.e E5 and then Bb5
or like:
------3s4-3s4------------------3s2-3s4
2222-1s2-1s2-2222-4s5-3-2222-1s4-1s2-2222-----8(p)
0000--------- 0000-2s3-1-0000--------- 0000-6s7

or something. that kind of metal. I want to know how to write a solo over it without compromising note choice. something evil but still melodic in its own way.

Rhythm Guitar plays:
E5 | Bb5 | A5 | F5 | (sounds pretty Satanic and is written in a Satanic scale)
Then you can play an open E minor, Bb major, G minor, F major, or you can play some melody that starts with a note in the chord played by the Rhythm Guitar. Just give it a try.
In the example, you can play something like:E.GBE^.G | Bb~~..AG | A..Bb.A.G | F...E.D. |
........ | ........ | ......... | ........ |
The dots have no meaning (they are just spaces) the ~ is vibrato and ^ is bent.
(it is difficult to get a beautiful sound when you use a diminished fifth in the scale, like E-Bb)

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2006-11-15, 14:10

k13m

Post-whore

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: vlissingen, the Netherlands

Posts: 2,680

Quote:

Originally Posted by USS

You can take a look at the chords being played there. For example:

Rhythm Guitar plays:
E5 | Bb5 | A5 | F5 | (sounds pretty Satanic and is written in a Satanic scale)
Then you can play an open E minor, Bb major, G minor, F major, or you can play some melody that starts with a note in the chord played by the Rhythm Guitar. Just give it a try.
In the example, you can play something like:E.GBE^.G | Bb~~..AG | A..Bb.A.G | F...E.D. |
........ | ........ | ......... | ........ |
The dots have no meaning (they are just spaces) the ~ is vibrato and ^ is bent.
(it is difficult to get a beautiful sound when you use a diminished fifth in the scale, like E-Bb)

All you have to do is figure what the chords are and find a scale that contains these notes. Those scales will give you a solid harmonic choice of notes. It's the adding of passing tones and tones outside the scale that will really add color. If the progression was E5 then Bb5. I would use every minor scale in the world and when the Bb5 (b5th in relation to E) chord came around, I would alter the notes I was hitting to reflect a Bb7 diminished arpeggio or play Bb Locrain mode or even continue to play E minor but put emphasis on the flattened 5th. Learn to follow the chord.

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I know how to follow chords when the chord changes are kinda slow(1-2 beats+ each), but I'm asking about how to follow those really fast death metal riffs that dont follow any scale(full of chromatics and b5s and all that wierd shit. like that example I tabbed earlier, but In a high tempo)

2006-11-15, 18:42

k13m

Post-whore

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: vlissingen, the Netherlands

Posts: 2,680

Quote:

Originally Posted by imelijah

I'm incredibly curious about how to properly do a shreding solo over that wierd ass black metal evil dissonant kind of riff
i.e E5 and then Bb5
or like:
------3s4-3s4------------------3s2-3s4
2222-1s2-1s2-2222-4s5-3-2222-1s4-1s2-2222-----8(p)
0000--------- 0000-2s3-1-0000--------- 0000-6s7

or something. that kind of metal. I want to know how to write a solo over it without compromising note choice. something evil but still melodic in its own way.

notes from riff.............|scale that could be used
-------------------- ------------------2-4-5----
---------1-(2)-4-8-- --------1-(2)-4-5----------
0-1-2-3------------- -0-2-3--------------------

this is harmonic minor scale, starting from the (2) fret

though the 1 and the 8(p) notes dont match the scale, you probaly could still play the whoel scale, and if it doesnt sound right, just play a noets in that spot that does sound right, but i think if that riff is fast that it wont be realy noticable.

i know bands that solo over riffs like this with only 1 scale in 1 key, an they make it work, so you should be able to aswell i guess.

765-654-543-432-765-654-543-432--

dno if this all makes any sence to ya, im a bad explainer, but i know this should work cuz ive seen many others do it like this.

I know how to follow chords when the chord changes are kinda slow(1-2 beats+ each), but I'm asking about how to follow those really fast death metal riffs that dont follow any scale(full of chromatics and b5s and all that wierd shit. like that example I tabbed earlier, but In a high tempo)

The same applies... just practice.

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________________________________________________________________________R.I.P. DimebagMy Music

The satanic scale is (from b to b in non-German theory):
b c d e f g a b
The distance b/f is a diminished fifth, which was the satanic interval in the Middle Ages because it was such a bad dischord. So this is the satanic scale.

But playing an E5, then an A#5 and then a B5 (yes, it is this way and not with a Bb5 and a B, because that would be too far out of the scale) has this shape on the E minor scale:
e f# g a# b c d(#) e
with the a# as an ornament of the b and with the d# as a possible leading note (leading to the e), both to make the melody abit sharper. All this is in the intro of Metal Heart (Accept and cover from Dimmu Borgir):
b...a#.g.f#.e.....f#.g..b.b.a#.a#/b\a#.g.f#.e.......
f#.a.g.f#.e.d#.e.f#.g.e..b.b.b.a#.g.e.f#.......

The satanic scale is (from b to b in non-German theory):
b c d e f g a b
The distance b/f is a diminished fifth, which was the satanic interval in the Middle Ages because it was such a bad dischord. So this is the satanic scale.

I guess that is the official name for it. But the dim-5 remayns the satanic interval.

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2006-11-20, 11:52

JonR

Metalhead

Join Date: Sep 2006

Posts: 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by imelijah

thanks you guys. do any of you know any really good none modal solos that I should analyze?

The vast majority of solos in rock are non-modal. (To apply the term correctly )
Analysing solos should always be done with regard to the key of the tune first, and the individual chords second - because sometimes the chords require the key scale to be changed. Usually this is a matter of adding chromatic notes (outside the scale), or changing to another key scale, not of applying modes.
You can sometimes use modal terminology to describe what happens as a scale interacts with a chord. But that doesn't mean the soloist thought that way, or that it helps you to think that way.
(Modal language is not always a waste of time, but is less useful or instructive than many people imagine.)

It's easier to specify some solos that ARE modal (and worth listening to/analysing for that reason):
Dorian mode: solos in "Light My Fire" and "Purple Haze"; also a lot of Santana Stuff ("Oye Como Va" being the archetypal dorian groove).

(IMO, Hendrix was inspired to try Dorian after listening to Light My Fire. It's not his finest moment, as his usual flawless ear deserts him... An object lesson in the dangers of applying a borrowed theoretical concept instead of trusting your ear, maybe...?)

(IMO, Hendrix was inspired to try Dorian after listening to Light My Fire. It's not his finest moment, as his usual flawless ear deserts him... An object lesson in the dangers of applying a borrowed theoretical concept instead of trusting your ear, maybe...?)

It's a strange solo in many ways but I quite like the jarring, dissonant quality to it - very distinctive.