Well, I have, and those 3 Android devices, I'm sorry to say, blow the iP4 out of the water. Yes, the iP4 is GORGEOUS and the UI is simply beautiful, etc. But you get more out of the other devices by far--more power, more customization, more options, more more more.

You don't get it.

With the iPhone you buy the case you like, download the apps you like, arrange them on the screen in the way you like and you add the wallpaper you like. After that Apple handles the rest.

That's the iPhone. For better or for worse that's the whole point of the iPhone - like a BMW, you trust that BMW does its part well. You sacrifice total customizability for build, simplicity and the whole it-just-works thing.

But you and others are claiming that Apple is losing some imagined race because they aren’t allowing their OS to run on any and all HW. The solution, if this really was something Apple cares about, is to allow iOS to run on any and all HW. The fact they aren’t means you are absolutely and 100% wrong about your assertion that marketshare is the primary goal over profit.

I didnt mention anything about other hardware - you did. The question that is pertinent now is that they claw back market share from Android by going muti-carrier.

Quote:

It’s silly to talk about some war that is between Apple (a company) or the iPhone (a full HW product) and Android (an OS foundation).

So what we are talking about instead is an OS war between iOs and Android, which is important to me a s developer. I want to develop for iOS ( only) but I can justify that if Android is the largest market.

Quote:

The chances of Apple getting 40% of the market is irrelevant to Apple getting more profit YoY in a market. Exhibit A: Apple was losing marketshare when Atom CPUs made cheap netbooks possible yet Apple didn’t release a netbook, instead they continued to dominate and increase their profits in the ‘PC’ market and eventually released a tablet that isn’t even counted with ‘PC’ sales.

I dont care about their profit. I care about my profit and employability as an iOS developer.

Quote:

Again, so much for your theory that marketshare, not profit, is the primary focus for companies.

Jobs talks about market share all the time. He talks up activations all the time. and dismisses ( or questions) Android's activations. He seems to care.

Quote:

1) Who mentioned China? I didn’t mention China.

2) China will be a very important market.

I mentioned China. Its not so important to devs as Chinese app downloaders tend not to purchase. So Android being big there is less of a concern to me: the US is a concern.

Quote:

it’s about trying to make the most profit possible. That is what smart devs are looking for.

Smart devs are not concerned about Apple's profit but their own. If it becomes more profitable to develop for Android then devs will do that, even if Apple is making Big Profits on a declining market share, something which they did in the 1990's on their way to obscurity until Jobs came back.

You did! I even pointed it out several times. You keep comparing a company (Apple) or a handset (iPhone) to an OS (Android). You are the one who is choosing not to compare like things. You wont compare similar OS business models to each other. You are the one that keeps saying that marketshare is more important than profit.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

You did! I even pointed it out several times. You keep comparing a company (Apple) or a handset (iPhone) to an OS (Android). You are the one who is choosing not to compare like things. You won’t compare similar OS business models to each other. You are the one that keeps saying that marketshare is more important than profit.

No what I am comparing is OS vs OS. I keep saying that. I dont care about Apple's profit. I have no shares. I care about my job as an iOS developer. I say that and you come back with the same boilerplate: You are the one that keeps saying that marketshare is more important than profit. Yes, it is. For everybody else, that is what matters.

For the record Apple was the largest single manufacturer of PCs in the world as it's OS market share declined. What matters is OS share. Thats what this report is about, what we are talking about. Only you want to compare a handset with an OS.

The only argument in your favour is that iOS on the iPod and iPhone should both be included in this metric, but comparing OS metrics is valid. Same with Symbian which is, like iOS, a proprietary OS. Same with the BlackBerry OS.

This is an OS race; some OSes are open, some are licensed, some are proprietary.

The competition is still on the OS. Thats what matters to me, and all developers, and it is what most of the internet will judge Apple on.

This game is between Android and Apple, for the mind of developers. Apple needs to be larger, or as large as Android. They can do it. They need to move quickly now.

Counting out Microsoft isn't particularly wise. They have their epic failures but look at what they did to Sony. I think that WP7 looks like a great platform to develop for and if I can convince management I'm switching from Android to WP7. Thus far Android has been an annoyance to develop on. Not eyeball gouging bad like Java ME or Blackberry but iOS is, as far as I can tell, much nicer.

So that's about 7 versions over, what, 2 decades? How many Android versions do we have in the space of a few years?

I don't think it is too much relevant. Most people I know don't upgrade their smartphone OS (unless there is major bug they can't live with); they just use it for 2 years and replace it with new model.

I think people make mistake by thinking average smart phone user is as passionate about mobile technology as people in this forum are. To my knowledge, they are not. As long as they can check on their Facebook account, read emails, do quick web browsing and keep calendar and contact tidy, majority do not care about new version of phone OS out there.

I haven't done proper count, but out of my head - 20 - 30% of smartphone users I know basically do not sync them with their computers at all, save for initial music files transfers etc. Some of them are not even aware there are OS updates for their phones. Heck, some of them don't know there is OS in their phone.

I dont care about Apple's profit. I have no shares. I care about my job as an iOS developer. I say that and you come back with the same boilerplate: You are the one that keeps saying that marketshare is more important than profit. Yes, it is. For everybody else, that is what matters.

Apple’s profit is of Apple’s concern. Acme App Developer’s profit is of Acme App developer’s concern. YET AGAIN, anyone with half a brain will create a product that can yield them the most money, not for the one that has the largest marketshare.

If Company A has 99% of a market would you produce for that market? You would say yes, of course, but the smart person would ask questions like: How big the market? What are the projected growth rate of that market? What is the likelihood of selling my product in that market? What costs and timeframes are associated with bringing my product to market?

Quote:

For the record Apple was the largest single manufacturer of PCs in the world as it's OS market share declined. What matters is OS share. Thats what this report is about, what we are talking about. Only you want to compare a handset with an OS.

No it doesn’t. I’m trying to get you to see that anyone with a smidgen of business sense will look at the capability to make money, not just one floating metric that needs a dozen qualifiers before it starts to become relevant.

No I’m not. I’m trying to get you to compare like things. Apple ≠ iOS. Apple ≠ iPhone. Apple ≠ everything ever created since the beginning of time sans Android OS.

Quote:

The only argument in your favour is that iOS on the iPod and iPhone should both be included in this metric, but comparing OS metrics is valid. Same with Symbian which is, like iOS, a proprietary OS. Same with the BlackBerry OS.

You’re a mobile developer and you don’t know that Symbian is open source? sigh… It looks like I feel for some major troll bait today. And hear I thought you were just an idiot.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

Counting out Microsoft isn't particularly wise. They have their epic failures but look at what they did to Sony. I think that WP7 looks like a great platform to develop for and if I can convince management I'm switching from Android to WP7. Thus far Android has been an annoyance to develop on. Not eyeball gouging bad like Java ME or Blackberry but iOS is, as far as I can tell, much nicer.

And I know C# as well as Java so I'm quite ready to jump ship...

Sorry, true. And I would be much happier using C# than Java and Android.

Has anyone on here actually sat down and compared devices, such as:
Droid X to iP4
Incredible to iP4
Epic 4G to iP4

Well, I have, and those 3 Android devices, I'm sorry to say, blow the iP4 out of the water. Yes, the iP4 is GORGEOUS and the UI is simply beautiful, etc. But you get more out of the other devices by far--more power, more customization, more options, more more more.

Wait for the next iPhone to come out next year--it will set the bar for the next round of Android devices to jump over.

Even if those other phones offer "more power" or customization, I don't care. My iPhone 4 does what I want, when I want it to. It's integration with my Macs and iPads ensures that I won't look at alternatives, unless there is some killer feature that the iPhone doesn't have. So far, that hasn't happened.

When I was younger, I liked messing around customizing computers and cars. Now I prefer to enjoy using those devices instead of working on them.

If someone likes customizing their phone, and feels limited by the iPhone, then Androids are a good fit. Others prefer the iPhones ease of use, and that's best for them.

If Company A has 99% of a market would you produce for that market? You would say yes, of course, but the smart person would ask questions like: How big the market? What are the projected growth rate of that market? What is the likelihood of selling my product in that market? What costs and timeframes are associated with bringing my product to market?

Indeed and the costs for iOs are larger - costs $90 a year. If Android is the bigger market I would develop for it. Or the people who employ me would. Or I would do something else, since I have never used Java commercially.

Quote:

No it doesn’t. I’m trying to get you to see that anyone with a smidgen of business sense will look at the capability to make money, not just one floating metric that needs a dozen qualifiers before it starts to become relevant.

Anyone with a smidgen of business sense develops for the larger platform first, which is why I am not playing Civ 5 until Christmas. And, then, people who like getting software early buy the machines they can get software early on. ( In many ways I cant really believe I am having a debate about this)

Quote:

No I’m not. I’m trying to get you to compare like things. Apple ≠ iOS. Apple ≠ iPhone. Apple ≠ everything ever created since the beginning of time sans Android OS.

What I am comparing is OS vs OS which is a totally valid comparison. It is also WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT. You are muddying the issue by wanting to compare Apple ( a company) with Android ( an OS) and then accuse everybody else of doing exactly that. You are doing it, not us.

Quote:

You’re a mobile developer and you don’t know that Symbian is open source? sigh… It looks like I feel for some major troll bait today. And hear I thought you were just an idiot.

I am an iOS developer, I dont develop for Symbian and never will.I used to develop for the Mac commercially ( out of college where I did objective C) but had to give that up for C# ( which is ok) as there was not enough work. See the problem?

( Not that this is relevant to my major point anyway).

The only troller here is you, because you are arguing a loser's position, the very same argument that Apple fans made in 1993 as their market share collapsed but APple was making vast profits. Later the profit collapsed because developers fled, and because the developers fled, the consumers fled some more. And even Steve Jobs has criticised that, in retropspect.

So to put is simply - and I wont be aswering posts by you again - MARKET SHARE MATTERS A LOT.

Originally Posted by anotherperson
I believe that people who buy Android phones instead of iPhones overwhelmingly do so for only two reasons:
1. In the USA, they want to use Verizon instead of AT&T
2. They can't afford an iPhone and, generally speaking, have a very small amount of disposable income.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsianBob

Well that's a very stupid generalization you made. All the high-end Android devices sell for the same contract price as the iPhone 4 and with more or less the exact same plan prices too.

Actually AsianBob your statement is the stupid one. When you consider there are many price points on Android phones, including at the bottom which is free, they are not the same price point. Then we have a huge number of them being given away for free even at the top end in the ridiculous by one get one free promotions. So before you start calling others stupid - trying getting an education on the subject at hand.

The competition is still on the OS. Thats what matters to me, and all developers, and it is what most of the internet will judge Apple on.

Not the smart developers.

Smart developers ask "which OS can I make the most money on?" or (if they're large enough) "can I make enough money on BOTH platforms to justify the extra development cost?"

Specifically, they have to look at the number of versions and how much work is involved in updating the app, as well. Do the multiple versions of Android take more work to support than the multiple versions of iOS? I don't know the answer, but a smart developer would make sure to learn before jumping in.

What you seem to be ignoring (repeatedly) is that developers don't make money based on the number of handsets. They make money based on how many people buy their app, how much they pay for it, and what it costs to develop and support the app.

I think it's funny that the Android fans whine about iOS accounting for 94% of online mobile phone software sales when they're trying to get Apple targeted as a monopoly, but when it comes to defending AndroidOS, they claim that Android OS is where developers should be looking - because of the greater number of handsets.

Can you say 'hypocrite'?

"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"Gatorguy 5/31/13

I"m truly amazed at the comments in these forums whenever an article like this comes out. The Jobs loyalists just can't seem to realize that this is good news for everyone. Jobs is feeling the pressure to build better devices. He can't just sit back on his laurels. The competition is too fierce.

Just accept the fact that Android is outselling the iPhone and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future BUT that this will relegate the iPhone not to "lesser" status but to a superior alternative.

Has anyone on here actually sat down and compared devices, such as:
Droid X to iP4
Incredible to iP4
Epic 4G to iP4

Well, I have, and those 3 Android devices, I'm sorry to say, blow the iP4 out of the water. Yes, the iP4 is GORGEOUS and the UI is simply beautiful, etc. But you get more out of the other devices by far--more power, more customization, more options, more more more.

Wait for the next iPhone to come out next year--it will set the bar for the next round of Android devices to jump over.

I went from a iPhone 3G to the Droid X.
Soon as the Holidays are over and I recover from the spending spree, I will pay the ETF and go back to the 3G.

Buggy UI , Crashing Apps, Forced Updates .... Tried it but going back to iOS as fast as possible

These market share numbers are only relevant to developers. If you aren't a developer then all you're doing shouting "This wins over that due to xxx" is being stupid.

As a developer here's my pro's and con's to develop in either ecosystem:

iOS Pros
- Market share due to iPod Touches. Almost everyone I know has an iPod touch and telling them to download my app is great.
- More potential app sales

Android Pros
- Java based
- Reach a great world wide market place
- More potential ad revenue for me for a free-ad supported app

iOS Cons
- Objective-C. Having to learn a new language.
- Dev's account. $99 isn't that much, but it's still something to look at when you're not 100% guaranteed to be able to put your app on the market
- Have to stick with Mac OS X (ok, this isnt a big one)
- Xcode

Android Cons
- App gets lost easily in the market
- Potential fragmentation of a small market share not being able to run my app

Differences aren't that big and right not it's coming down to personal preference. As for other developers, my guess is that anyone who is a developer either develops in linux (more towards here) or Mac.

Cutting into Apple's profits when iPhone sales grew 91% year-over-year while the profits grew 70% year-over-year to $4.3 billion last quarter? Please name one phone vendor that is even close to how Apple is doing. Apple still can't keep up with the demand and they've only now just released the iPhone 4 in China and many other countries around the world while they tried to keep up with the demand in the US. And the Verizon iPhone will come eventually. Jobs isn't worried. He's just having fun trash-talking the competition that trash-talks Apple.

I'd say all the Android trolls (and I'm not saying you're one of them) are the desperate worried ones to come over to Apple-related sites (many others besides this one) and spend their "valuable" time and effort trashing Apple and the iPhone.

You're right, I"m not one of those trolls. I state the facts and I don't bash the iPhone.

And, yes, regardless of how many billions Apple has made, it would have made even MORE if Android didn't exist. Just imagine a world with only iPhone, Blackberry, Windows, and Symbian. You know where I'm going with this. Apple would have BILLIONS MORE in revenue. Android has slowed that momentum considerably, no matter what you think of the platform. Jobs realizes that and he's on the defensive with his recent statements at a quarterly earnings report.

I say, GOOD! Let him get freaked out and go back to the drawing board and create an even better iPhone....Android will follow suit and the fun will begin all over again.

Even if those other phones offer "more power" or customization, I don't care. My iPhone 4 does what I want, when I want it to. It's integration with my Macs and iPads ensures that I won't look at alternatives, unless there is some killer feature that the iPhone doesn't have. So far, that hasn't happened.

When I was younger, I liked messing around customizing computers and cars. Now I prefer to enjoy using those devices instead of working on them.

If someone likes customizing their phone, and feels limited by the iPhone, then Androids are a good fit. Others prefer the iPhones ease of use, and that's best for them.

I agree with your reasoning. But I find, for example, the Droid Incredible an amazing device that does everything I want and more. Plus, one killer feature that it has (among many) that iPhone doesn't is wireless hotspot. I can hook up my Macbook pro, Mac Pro tower, Windows laptop and anything else to it wirelessly to get to the internet. Up to 8 devices at a time, in fact. Many people are getting Android phones with wireless hotspots along with their Wifi iPads. How ironic!

I went from a iPhone 3G to the Droid X.
Soon as the Holidays are over and I recover from the spending spree, I will pay the ETF and go back to the 3G.

Buggy UI , Crashing Apps, Forced Updates .... Tried it but going back to iOS as fast as possible

Strange. LIke with anything, there are exceptions. I know of at least 20 people in my company who have the X and love them. They've tried the iP4 and said, "nah, it's got nothing on the X."

Personally, I don't like the X. I prefer the Incredible. That's the beauty of Android--choice, options, etc. Crappy phones, mid-range phones, high-end great phones, different carriers, different companies, etc.

7Actually AsianBob your statement is the stupid one. When you consider there are many price points on Android phones, including at the bottom which is free, they are not the same price point. Then we have a huge number of them being given away for free even at the top end in the ridiculous by one get one free promotions. So before you start calling others stupid - trying getting an education on the subject at hand.

Actually, I am well aware of the BOGO promotions. This is something the carriers do at their own expense. Just because the consumer takes advantage of a deal for an Android phone, doesn't mean they are any more or less off than someone who bought a single iPhone. Lets say Apple decided to do a limited BOGO offer (I know they never would, not the point). Would you pass up that offer and demand to pay for your second iPhone? Of course you wouldn't. Would it mean that you're "poorer" for taking advantage of that offer? Not at all.

But the thing you assume is that the person actually decides to go with the BOGO offer, which is aimed more towards families. If an individual goes and purchases a high-end Android phone, why would he decide to go with that deal which forces him to get a second line which he won't use? So he purchases the Android phone for the same price as you would for an iPhone 4.

These market share numbers are only relevant to developers. If you aren't a developer then all you're doing shouting "This wins over that due to xxx" is being stupid.

As a developer here's my pro's and con's to develop in either ecosystem:

iOS Pros
- Market share due to iPod Touches. Almost everyone I know has an iPod touch and telling them to download my app is great.
- More potential app sales

Android Pros
- Java based
- Reach a great world wide market place
- More potential ad revenue for me for a free-ad supported app

iOS Cons
- Objective-C. Having to learn a new language.
- Dev's account. $99 isn't that much, but it's still something to look at when you're not 100% guaranteed to be able to put your app on the market
- Have to stick with Mac OS X (ok, this isnt a big one)
- Xcode

Android Cons
- App gets lost easily in the market
- Potential fragmentation of a small market share not being able to run my app

Differences aren't that big and right not it's coming down to personal preference. As for other developers, my guess is that anyone who is a developer either develops in linux (more towards here) or Mac.

First, it's worth noting that if you're concerned about $99, you're not much of a developer.

More importantly, NONE of the things you've listed are the important thing. For a developer hoping to make money, the only question that matters is: "which platform will allow me to make the most money?" The answer is, overwhelmingly at this point, iOS.

"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"Gatorguy 5/31/13

I went from a iPhone 3G to the Droid X.
Soon as the Holidays are over and I recover from the spending spree, I will pay the ETF and go back to the 3G.

Buggy UI , Crashing Apps, Forced Updates .... Tried it but going back to iOS as fast as possible

I played with the default UI for a bit and didn't find it all that bad. But if you look up LauncherPro or ADW.Launcher and use one of them, I bet that a lot of the "buggy UI" problems will go away. I personally use LauncherPro+ (paid version).

As for the "forced updates", I have no idea what you're talking about. My roommate bought his DX a week before the 2.2 update went live and he went weeks without updating it. He never knew one was available until I told him. Android devices will generally notify you when a system update is available (or when you ping the server manually), but I have never heard of it forcing you to update. I have gone through many of these updates on the Droid (2.0 -> 2.0.1 -> 2.1 -> 2.2) and the 2.1 -> 2.2 on the DX and I was never forced to update.

Actually, I am well aware of the BOGO promotions. This is something the carriers do at their own expense.

Typically, that isn't how it works. The "retailer" or the vendor can contact each other if an effort to find ways to benefit each other.

If the retailer can't move the product then they will return product or refuse future product (if the product was pre-paid with no consignment for return). Similarly the vendor can intact retailers with plans to benefit each other by suggesting such deals. RiM has great management and increased their YoY profit per quarter by increasing their unit sales, but they've mostly done this at the expense of their per unit profit.

This is a great short term tactic, however it's not sustainable for the long term. The explosion of the smartphone market with the iPhone and RiM lead in the market at the time when shift to smartphones took off in the consumer segment has allowed them to maintain this stopgap for a lot longer than is typically possible, but they will ultimately need to have proper engineering in HW, SW and ecosystem or they will crumble like so many before them. There is no new ground here. This has all happened before and this will happen again.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

Typically, that isn't how it works. The "retailer" or the vendor can contact each other if an effort to find ways to benefit each other.

If the retailer can't move the product then they will return product or refuse future product (if the product was pre-paid with no consignment for return). Similarly the vendor can intact retailers with plans to benefit each other by suggesting such deals. RiM has great management and increased their YoY profit per quarter by increasing their unit sales, but they've mostly done this at the expense of their per unit profit.

This is a great short term tactic, however it's not sustainable for the long term. The explosion of the smartphone market with the iPhone and RiM lead in the market at the time when shift to smartphones took off in the consumer segment has allowed them to maintain this stopgap for a lot longer than is typically possible, but they will ultimately need to have proper engineering in HW, SW and ecosystem or they will crumble like so many before them. There is no new ground here. This has all happened before and this will happen again.

Thanks for the explanation. I personally don't believe that the BOGO is the only reason Android is doing so well (it's more of a booster). Like I said, it helps on the family side, but for the individuals, this offer makes no difference to them.

I find it a little insulting when people who prefer an iPhone come up with these degrading reasons for why people purchase phones other than an iPhone (like the "has less income" or "are basement dwellers" that have been posted here). Why can't it be possible for someone to buy an Android phone (or any other OS smartphone) for the simple reason that it works the best for them?

Jobs talks about iOS DEVICES, which fans of Android conveniently overlook in discussions of Android marketshare tending to focus, as they do, only on iPhones.

It will be interesting to see if the same split is applied when devices such as the Galaxy Tab and Dell streak start building Android marketshare.

They actually aren't overlooked at all. The vast majority of Android devices currently available are smartphones. Hence the comparison to the iPhone only. You have to be a bit logical about this too. If numbers came out for Android devices that included its use in household appliances, cars, airplane entertainment systems, etc, wouldn't you cry foul too?

But I agree that once the Android-powered tablets start becoming more mainstream, I'd like to see how the total numbers compare.

U're absolutely right! The 2 are not comparable, for one, Android is used by several phone manufacturers while iOS is exclusive for iPhone. Apple is not competing in the OS segment, they're offering a package hardware and software.

These analysts call themselves professionals but they cannot distinguish which is comparable from not. The more comparable thing is to compare HTC's sales to that of iPhone.

It's a hardware thing not software since consumers are buying the hardwares not the OS of smartphones unlike in the PC world wherein consumers have the option to buy or download Windows or Mac OS and Linux.

Thanks for the explanation. I personally don't believe that the BOGO is the only reason Android is doing so well (it's more of a booster). Like I said, it helps on the family side, but for the individuals, this offer makes no difference to them.

I find it a little insulting when people who prefer an iPhone come up with these degrading reasons for why people purchase phones other than an iPhone (like the "has less income" or "are basement dwellers" that have been posted here). Why can't it be possible for someone to buy an Android phone (or any other OS smartphone) for the simple reason that it works the best for them?

But its all connected. These BOGO deals from RiM appear to have come about because RiM and Verizon (for example) were able to compete directly with a 1:1 sale. This speaks directly toward the desirability of a device that used to be sold for considerably more money, which in turn will affect the companys ability to compete if they continue down this path. As I previously stated, RiM is very well managed and the iPhone serendipitously opened up a path for many smartphone vendors in the consumer sector.

PS: The longterm problem is what plagues the majority of the PC industry now, that is most systems being sold with little to no profit except for the measly scrapes they can make from selling crapware space. These companies are still innovating but they are innovating new ways to cut corners, which isnt exactly a benefit to the user or the user experience. RiM is better off than any of the Android-based devs because they make their own OS, but they need to push their OS into the 21st century, which is something that they dont seem to be doing with their Playbook running Adobe AIR as the UI.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

It gives away its open-sourced Android -- no money there -- but that approach has put Google's software at the heart of the technology that is poised to dominate the next decade.

Google is now one of the world's biggest players in smartphones. Android will command 17.7% of the global mobile device market by year's end,
If we going to measure revenue by support systems, then Google can claim pretty much every modern OS out there since they are the default search engine on most (if not all) of them. Its like Apple saying they make billions or a year from WebKit because it was the truly great part of the original iPhone that no one could compete with.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

If we going to measure revenue by support systems, then Google can claim pretty much every modern OS out there since they are the default search engine on most (if not all) of them. Its like Apple saying they make billions or a year from WebKit because it was the truly great part of the original iPhone that no one could compete with.

True, but you can't say that Android is generating zero revenue at all for Google.

Quote:

But Google isn't giving away a vital smartphone component out of the goodness of its heart. Its plan is to make money by driving mobile users to enter searches, both on its mobile site and through pre-installed apps that route traffic to Google. It also gets a 30% cut of Android Marketplace app purchases, and sells in-app ads for outside developers through its AdMob network.

By 2013, Android will be a $4 billion-a-year business for the company...

If you took out every single other smartphone device Google's on besides Android, Google would still be making money off of it.