BW: Dark Explorers Discussion

So the new set comes out May 9th and Prereleases are happening everywhere. The list is out and it looks like it'll change the TCG metagame up a bit with the new releases. This thread is mostly just to share your opinions on what you think of the new set and how you think it will affect the current metagame, so without further ado, the set list!

Some of the cards with potential(Move your mouse to reveal the content)Some of the cards with potential (open)Some of the cards with potential (close)

Heatmor – Fire – HP90
Basic Pokémon

[C] Hot Lick: 10+ damage. If the Defending Pokémon is Durant, this attack does 50 more damage.
[R][C][C] Firebreathing: 50+ damage. Flip a coin. If heads, this attack does 20 more damage.

Weakness: Water(x2)
Resistance: None
Retreat: 1

Empoleon - Water - HP140
Stage 2 - Evolves from Prinplup

Ability: Diving Draw
Once during your turn (before your attack), you may discard a card from your hand. If you do, draw 2 cards.

[W] Attack Command: 10x damage. Does 10 damage times the number of Pokémon in play (both yours and your opponent's).

Weakness: Electric(x2)
Resistance: None
Retreat: 2

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Raikou-EX - Electric - HP170
Basic Pokémon

[E][C] Thunder Fang: 30 damage.Flip a coin. If heads the Defending Pokémon is now Paralyzed.
[E][E][C] Volt Bolt:Discard all Electric Energy attached to this Pokémon. This attack does 100 damage to 1 of your opponent's benched Pokémon. (Don't apply Weakness and Resistance for Benched Pokémon.)

Weakness: Fighting(x2)
Resistance: None
Retreat: 1

Groudon-EX - Fighting - HP180
Basic Pokémon

[F][C] Tromp: 20 damage.Does 10 damage to each of your opponent's Benched Pokémon. (Don't apply Weakness and Resistance for Benched Pokémon.)[F][F][C] Giant Claw: 80+ damage.If the Defending Pokémon already has 2 or more damage counters on it, this attack does 40 more damage.

Weakness: Water(x2)
Resistance: Electric(-20)
Retreat: 4

Darkrai-EX - Dark - HP180
Basic Pokémon

Ability: Dark CloakEach of your Pokémon that has any Dark Energy attached to it has no Retreat Cost.

[C][C] Brutal Bash: 20x damage. Does 20 damage times the number of Dark Pokémon you have in play.
[D][D] Dark Rush: 20x damage. Does 20 damage times the number of damage counters on this Pokémon.

Weakness: Fighting(x2)
Resistance: Psychic(-20)
Retreat: 2

Tornadus-EX - Colorless - HP170
Basic Pokémon

[C][C] Blow Through: 30+ damage.If there is any Stadium card in play this attack does 30 more damage.
[C][C][C] Power Blast: 100 damage.Flip a coin. If tails, discard an Energy attached to this Pokémon.

Weakness: Electric(x2)
Resistance: Fighting(-20)
Retreat: 1

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Darkness Claw - Tool

Pokémon Tool: To use a Pokémon Tool, attach it to one of your Pokémon. Each Pokémon can only have 1 card attached, and the card remains attached.

The attacks of the Darkness-type Pokémon that this card is attached to do an additional 20 damage to any Active Pokémon.

You can use any number of Trainer cards during your turn.
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Dark Patch - Trainer

Choose 1 Basic Darkness Energy card from your discard pile and attach it to one of your Benched Darkness-type Pokémon.

You can use any number of Trainer cards during your turn.
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Random Receiver - Trainer

Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal a Supporter card. Put it into your hand. Shuffle the other cards back into your deck.

You can use any number of Trainer cards during your turn.

Ultra Ball – Trainer

This card can’t be used unless you discard 2 cards from your hand.

Choose 1 Pokémon card from your deck, show it to your opponent, and put it in your hand. Shuffle your deck afterward.

yeah, pretty bad set, only ~10 good cards i'd say, and let's say half Exes are nice. This format is pretty hard for Empoleon, will have to wait and see if next is a bit better. Zoroark/Sableye/Krookodile can be used in dark decks.
And super mega awesome rare gold Catcher, let's spend 250$ to have 4 in deck.

Other than EXes (all of which I can see getting play before they rotate except Kyogre) and the trainers, there are a few interesting things at least...

Empoleon has potential, although the typing hurts... water doesn't take out any major meta contenders (unless you still believe in TyRam) and lightning weakness hurts against zeels. In the weird things to try department, if you have a Mew Prime deck that already runs water energy, you could toss this in instead of Jumpluff. (I guess you could also just put it in MeesieMew instead of Pluff if you don't have a Pluff for some reason.) Will it be useful with Mew EX in the future? It's still a stage 2, and there may be better stage 2 options, but it's at least something to consider.

I want Accelgor to be good, but other than Professor Cup I don't see it happening. On the other hand, Lilligant top cut regionals, so who knows! If it were a basic, it would be pretty easy to make work, but as it is I think it would need Vileplume and that makes searching to get it back a lot harder. Celebi/Accelgor/Sunflora/Vileplume with Skyarrow Bridge? Even then, you have the same problem VVV does of losing a prize whenever you get a knockout. But I guess that's where I'd start.

Heatmor may see use in decks that are otherwise awful against Durant --- I'm trying one of it in Lugia Legend now, for example. Other than that it doesn't seem worth the space. I'd be tempted in CMT but I want to add a Tornadus EX anyway and 100 for 3 colorless should be good enough for Durant.

Eelektross is an interesting one-of, and may improve Eels/Vileplume, although I'm not convinced that deck is super viable. At Regionals I played someone who had proxied up Eels/Vileplume with Elektross and Raikou and it was actually pretty solid. Interestingly, it can one-shot Zapdos, which isn't a guaranteed card in zeels but shows up a lot as a fighting counter. If the energy cost were a little lower, I would include it for sure. As it is, I don't know if I will bother. Raikou lets me hit the bench already and isn't as clunky.

Aerodactyl plus Twist Mountain is probably too much space in most decks, but it's a free plus power that can OHKO eels with colorless energy, there might be a way to fit it into something surprising. If it's legal for professor cup it will be awfully tempting there, though probably too finicky.

If the format slows down in a year, or stage 2s get more support, then I could see Venusaur being useful, though I'm not holding my breath.

...seeker/Carnivine? I guess maybe? That's a huge reach though. If you can search for a basic and put three energy on it just seeker/knockout. Lure Poison is better if you would have played Bellsprout anyway but have grass or rainbow/prism energy, but that's a very narrow niche. I can mostly see it against vileplume/reuniclus, much like Luring Lighting Reuniclus was a strong play in Chandelure in HGSS-NV.

As far as the dark stuff goes: Testing with Mekkah has convinced me that Sableye is good, or at least something to be afraid of. Ascension Zorua and new Zoroark are good too, of course, particularly with all of the new toys dark gets. Krookodile? Meh. If it didn't have a fighting weakness it would be more interesting. You can play the old basics and get a different weakness and that's a plus, but you're still gonna be in a bad way. Sure, in the endgame it can OHKO _anything_, but that energy cost is hideous and it's a stage 2. I don't expect it to see play but will be happy for anyone who can make it work.

Personally I think Tornadus EX is the winning card of the set. Fighting resistance, splashable in everything, 100 damage on turn 1 in CMT, 60 on turn 1 in anything? Yes please.

Darkrai EX opens up a new and exciting metagame deck, and also probably raised the value of Terrakion significantly just by being printed. Thanks, Darkrai. It's not an autoloss to Terrakion or anything, but fighting decks will get played, and Darkrai will need an answer. Conveniently Tornadus is right there.

Raikou EX is a really nice addition to Zekeels. More power cards with fighting weakness! But it can take out Eels, it can take out injured things moved to the bench, it can take out Zoroark/Sableye, and its first attack isn't terrible either. I think it will end up a one-of, competing for space with Zekrom EX and Zapdos and maybe Zekrom BLW, although I've seen people testing multiples.

Groudon EX may be much better than some people are giving it credit for if Darkrai and Zeels are the top decks in format. The first attack is likely too slow, although I might prefer it to a 30 damage Retaliate on turn 2, but the second attack can OHKO Zekrom EX, Regigigas EX, Raikou EX, and Darkrai EX with a pluspower, and 180 is stronger than Terrakion's 130 in terms of surviving to do it again a second turn. Is it giving up two prizes stronger? I am not sure. I'd also try it in a Vileplume/Reuniclus engine.

Entei EX doesn't seem very good right now, but I expect it to be useful at some point in the future, maybe with Reshiram or Ninetales BW5. Once Typhlosion is gone, it will be the best from-discard acceleration for fire. It may never hit tier 1 but I will be surprised if it doesn't see play.

Kyogre EX is just terrible. I guess maybe if everyone starts playing 50 HP basics to set up a stage 1s deck with Ninetales, Amoongus, and Roserade or something, you'll be able to pick off easy prizes with it? I guess? I'm reaching here. It's just a bad card.

@rax
True enough, Kyogre Ex is a big dissapointment. I mean C'mon, sure it's great to be able to snipe the bench and have an attack that ignores it's massive retreat cost but still 50 damage isn't KO'ing anything that isn't named tynamo or solosis in the current meta >_>
If only that damage was pumped to 70 per hit then we'd have the ultimate basic killer (at least it would be able to KO reshiram if it's the other active pokemon)

Alright, added in pictures of stuff that could be useful from this set, if you think something else should be added let me know.

Anyway, I like the changes that Darkrai will be bringing to the table, seeing as Mewtwo EX was one of the things I really didn't want to use. Absol Prime should be fun until it's eventually rotated out. I'm curious to see how well Raikou will play in Zekeel decks, and I was happy to see that Rare Candies got reprinted. I'm looking forward to trying out Darkrai EX and Groudon EX the most; they're the whole reason why I think this set is decent.

Artwork wise, I like the reprints of the BW Supporters, but some of the EXes didn't reach my expectations especially Kyogre EX and Tornadus EX. Their Full Arts were much better in my opinion. I'd say all the other EXes turned out really nice. I honestly don't like the Shiny Catcher because of it's artwork, but hey it's shiny so everyone wants it.

I think raikou plays pretty much like Zebstrika, it needs to run an alternative kind of energy to be effective (even colorless but anything aside from pure lightning). That way it'll be discarding only 2 energies at once making it easy to recharge it it goes to the bench. I can see it working with skyarrow Bridge.

No love for Random Reciver?
But i'm looking forward to using Tornadus, and i'm sure that Darkrai + dark patch will see play, but i'm not sure on how good it will actually be.
I think that zeels will still stay strong, but Mewtwo may be a bit shakey.
but I am really looking forward to using Tornadus.
EDIT: also, GOLDEN CATCHER.

Aerodactyl won't be banned in the Professor Cup because it is only Basic Pokemon that are banned. Aerodactyl is a Restored Pokemon. I'm not sure if I'm going to playing the Professor Cup or if I'm going to give up my spot and judge side events.

I definitely think Raikou is the best card in the set. It will work so well with Zekeels to get powered up. It wouldn't be hard to fit in one Darkrai in the deck so it could easily get free retreat.

I still wish Darkrai wasn't an ex though, as it'll be a prime target the moment it sets foot on the field, and with a lot of fighting types running around to counter Eelzek it's an easy target for a charged terrakion + catcher >_<

Okay, it does help your opponent, but you can still play it during Trainer Lock since Gothitelle specifies items and Vileplume was errated to say Items. My issue with teching in Darkrai for free retreat is then you have to run either Prism or Darkness energy that can't be recycled with Eels, while if you're just going to roll with Skyarrow, you only need to spend at most 1 or 2 cards in your deck. And I'm not keen on loading up my bench with EX'es with all the Terrakion flying around.

I really hope I can find a good use for Empoleon, though. I love everything about it. Maybe run it alongside Donphan or Terrakion to help against the Lightening weak?

Aerodactyl won't be banned in the Professor Cup because it is only Basic Pokemon that are banned. Aerodactyl is a Restored Pokemon. I'm not sure if I'm going to playing the Professor Cup or if I'm going to give up my spot and judge side events.

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I'm planning on playing, maybe I'll see you there --- I would assume it wouldn't be banned, although I'd want to confirm it before I put it in my deck. ;)

I definitely think Raikou is the best card in the set. It will work so well with Zekeels to get powered up. It wouldn't be hard to fit in one Darkrai in the deck so it could easily get free retreat.

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I'd rather put in skyarrow or just run switch --- darkrai in zeels is a(nother) benchsitter that terrakion can take out for two prizes, and running a bunch of dark or even prism energy reduces consistency. (And prism gets discarded by Raikou anyway.) I've seen people run Rescue energy also, though I'm not really convinced by the value in that. I may fear Terrakion more than is healthy, though, from playing a bunch of West Coast events with lots of quad-Terrakion decks.

Krookodile also can have some potential. Its second attack deals 40x the number of prize cards you have taken for DDCC which can be useful in turning a lead into an even greater lead. Works like a Reverse Shaymon-EX but can also benefit from Dark Claw/Dark Patch. Entei EX may also have the slightest bit of potential in Fire type decks as his second attack allows you to attach a fire energy from your discard pile to a benched Pokemon.

By far my favorite card in this deck is Raikou EX but I feel that he may be a bit overhyped. I feel that Dark Claw is also a bit underrated, the +20 damage is just great.

Just wondering because I haven't seen any ruling on this but with venusaur's ability do you think it could touch a legend half? Because personally I'm seeing 2 venusaur's sitting on the bench bringing in a legend in 1 turn lol. And an emboar and or feraligatr stacking it and its hitting instantly..I'm sorry if i gave anyone good idea lol but its mainly a question.

As well as I've not seen any ruling on heavy balls touching legend halves other than very mad professors ive battled saying its illegal.

Just wondering because I haven't seen any ruling on this but with venusaur's ability do you think it could touch a legend half? Because personally I'm seeing 2 venusaur's sitting on the bench bringing in a legend in 1 turn lol. And an emboar and or feraligatr stacking it and its hitting instantly..I'm sorry if i gave anyone good idea lol but its mainly a question.

As well as I've not seen any ruling on heavy balls touching legend halves other than very mad professors ive battled saying its illegal.

If anyone could reply it wold be great.

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Legend halves don't have a Retreat Cost, HP, etc when they're not combined on the bench. At least, that's the official explanation I've heard. So they can't be searched with Level Ball or Heavy Ball, but you can get them with cards that only specify a Pokémon, like Ultra Ball or Communication.

The way Venusaur is written, you could search your deck for half of the Legend Card each turn, since each card is a seperate 'Pokémon' (Even if we're talking Lugia or Ho-Oh).

Legend halves don't have a Retreat Cost, HP, etc when they're not combined on the bench. At least, that's the official explanation I've heard. So they can't be searched with Level Ball or Heavy Ball, but you can get them with cards that only specify a Pokémon, like Ultra Ball or Communication.

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That's correct. Each card alone only has the attributes that are on both cards, like typing and card name. (So if a card let you search for any water pokemon --- Mantine, for example --- you could get a Lugia legend half.) There are one or two edge cases where this doesn't make perfect sense; it's really just retconned logic onto the Japanese ruling.

The way Venusaur is written, you could search your deck for half of the Legend Card each turn, since each card is a seperate 'Pokémon' (Even if we're talking Lugia or Ho-Oh).

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And you could, as suggested, play two Venusaur and get an entire legend that way. If you can get two Venusaur set up on your bench and not get disrupted. If you want to get both halves of a legend into your hand faster than that, there's Bronzong TM, but it's probably still too slow, and N-vulnerable. I've had good luck with Legend Box, but it's possible I am just absurdly lucky...

Fair enough. I'd say heavy ball deserves at least the bottom half with the 3 retreat cost but i suppose it would be skeptical. But now with venusaur its a legal way! So happy! Also another way to get them which I've done is pokemon communication.