I don't see anything controversial about his remarks. He's correct that with an increasingly globalized economy there is always going to be someone out there who had it worse than you growing up, and who overcame it. The message to stop making excuses and start making progress is a good one, and it also fits well with his urging to give back to your own communities to help raise them up.

TuteTibiImperes:Here's a better article with actual coverage instead of just a video link: Obama Morehouse Speech

I don't see anything controversial about his remarks. He's correct that with an increasingly globalized economy there is always going to be someone out there who had it worse than you growing up, and who overcame it. The message to stop making excuses and start making progress is a good one, and it also fits well with his urging to give back to your own communities to help raise them up.

I don't see anything controversial about his remarks. He's correct that with an increasingly globalized economy there is always going to be someone out there who had it worse than you growing up, and who overcame it. The message to stop making excuses and start making progress is a good one, and it also fits well with his urging to give back to your own communities to help raise them up.

Cosby got a smackdown for it.

...and the 'Cos didn't miss a beat. His message has always remained the same regardless of a few distractors.

gilgigamesh:I think its obvious that today, the black community in America is its own worst enemy. Its a self-perpetuating cycle of broken, fatherless families, poverty, and lack of education.

At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.

My husband and I have spent years taking in foster children, the large majority of them were African-Americans. I cannot tell you how many times they told me they couldn't maintain their credibility among their peers if they "acted white." In every case, "acting white" was interpreted as wearing clothes that fit, passing their classes in school, and expecting them home for dinner and family time. It was so depressing and so continuous that when I moved to Las Vegas, I didn't sign up for the foster care program, despite my fifteen years experience and the great need in Las Vegas for stable foster parents.

On the other hand, several of my former "foster" kids have gone on to graduate college and/or enter the workforce, and start families. They all still call me mom and their kids consider me their grandmother. I count these kids among my successes, but I'm still frustrated by some kids who I wasn't able to raise as productive citizens. Two boys are in jail, and a few others have continued with drug and gang problems. In every case, the boys who are non successful have blamed everyone but themselves.

I guess the TL;DR point is that Obama (and Cosby before him) are absolutely correct. They are perpetuating a cycle amongst themselves and only they can end it.

At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.

Okay, I give up. How did that cycle start?

The years of slavery followed by legal segregation and discrimination didn't help. Institutionalized discrimination and segregation has done a lot to create black populations in many areas that have a history of poverty, and with the poverty has come a de-emphasis on education, and a de-stigmatization of criminal activity within those communities. Repeat that process over a few generations while marginalizing the population and you have a culture that has developed which celebrates behaviors that are harmful to society (drug use, gang membership, lack of parental responsibility, violence, etc). As Kimothy mentions above it's become almost a badge of honor amongst those who grow up in that culture to perpetuate it - if someone tries to get out of it, they're ridiculed and targeted, the mob doesn't want to admit they could pull themselves up so they do anything they can to pull anyone who tries to escape back down.

Now, I have no clue how to actually fix it, and at the end of the day those who perpetuate it really just need to step back and change their views, but obviously speaking from outside that culture, it's a lot easier for me to say it than for those living in it to do it.

gilgigamesh:At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.

That begins and ends with the current generation. You don't see me blaming people for one ancestor being an indentured servant and another, centuries ago, being a slave do you? No, because it has jack all to do with today. People need to grow up and take responsibility for themselves.

That begins and ends with the current generation. You don't see me blaming people for one ancestor being an indentured servant and another, centuries ago, being a slave do you? No, because it has jack all to do with today. People need to grow up and take responsibility for themselves.

Right! All obstacles completely disappeared after the slaves were freed!!

I don't see anything controversial about his remarks. He's correct that with an increasingly globalized economy there is always going to be someone out there who had it worse than you growing up, and who overcame it. The message to stop making excuses and start making progress is a good one, and it also fits well with his urging to give back to your own communities to help raise them up.

That begins and ends with the current generation. You don't see me blaming people for one ancestor being an indentured servant and another, centuries ago, being a slave do you? No, because it has jack all to do with today. People need to grow up and take responsibility for themselves.

So, showing a line of cultural development that was originated in the 1700s plantation slave culture of the Deep South and Tidewater, along with continuous impact of development from the immediate antebellum impact upon said developed culture, and the additional 100 years or so of institutionalized discrimination against members of said culture (as well as those trying to break out of said culture by being called Uppity), leading up to the present day...

Means absolutely nothing. Culture and historical background means nothing, there is no such thing as context, and Mitt Romney wasn't born with a golden spoon in his mouth on third base.

Summercat:Princess Ryans Knickers: gilgigamesh: At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.

That begins and ends with the current generation. You don't see me blaming people for one ancestor being an indentured servant and another, centuries ago, being a slave do you? No, because it has jack all to do with today. People need to grow up and take responsibility for themselves.

So, showing a line of cultural development that was originated in the 1700s plantation slave culture of the Deep South and Tidewater, along with continuous impact of development from the immediate antebellum impact upon said developed culture, and the additional 100 years or so of institutionalized discrimination against members of said culture (as well as those trying to break out of said culture by being called Uppity), leading up to the present day...

Means absolutely nothing. Culture and historical background means nothing, there is no such thing as context, and Mitt Romney wasn't born with a golden spoon in his mouth on third base.

Got it.

/You sir, are a fsking moron.

Some people refuse to acknowledge the institutionalized racism that even still exists, albeit quieter and less obvious than it was in 1960.

This isn't the year 2250. There are still many people living who were victims of legally enforced segregation and many more who were and continue to be the victims of economic segregation. Though I'm white, I did attend a 99% black elementary school in Alabama right after the end of legal segregation. It wasn't legal to segregation by rule but they could by creative zoning. When we moved to another town in the same school district that was mostly white, the difference between school quality was night and day. The kids who didn't get to move to the better school (and remember, these were all in the same county where there was only one school district) suffered a far inferior education. Since it was one district, you can't say it was a case of a black city refusing to invest in education. It was a majority white county keeping most of the blacks zoned to schools that received less funding and had much older physical plants. Even if everything was magically made equal ten years ago, you'd still have a couple of generations who were intentionally given inferior educational resources, and the consequences of having them as parents unable to pass along knowledge and resources that the kids in other areas receive from their parents.

The cycle continues. Overall it's not as strong as it once was but only because many have worked hard to inch things toward equality of opportunity. No doubt that black students of today have a better chance of making it up the social economic ladder than they use to but let's not play make believe and pretend that the odds are the same. They're still far from it.

That begins and ends with the current generation. You don't see me blaming people for one ancestor being an indentured servant and another, centuries ago, being a slave do you? No, because it has jack all to do with today. People need to grow up and take responsibility for themselves.

There are still MANY things going on today that keep the cycle going. Blacks are much, much more likely to be arrested and charged for drugs than whites (or asians), despite whites actually doing more drugs. Other things are small but have lasting effects far beyond what we would think - yo mamma doesn't read to you (maybe because she doesn't think it's important, maybe because she's working, maybe both), and you grow up that much further behind everyone else. You don't have books at home, so you never read books, so you end up never learning to "read good", so you never read to your kids. Heck, just talking to your kids when they are really little (as toddlers and such) has a lasting, large effect.

You can't blame kids for having their intellectual development stunted because their parents don't have a goddamn clue becaue THEIR parents didn't have a goddamn clue, or because nobody every had any money or time so the kids never got stupid simple things like books and storytime.

These things take a LOT of concentrated effort to fix, the type of effort America has never, ever invested in poor blacks (or poor anyone, for that matter). Affirmative action doesn't deal with the roots of the problem. Nor does school, because the problems start long before the kids go to school.

Infernalist:Some people refuse to acknowledge the institutionalized racism that even still exists, albeit quieter and less obvious than it was in 1960.

"Look, the United States engaged in a system of de jure and de facto apartheid for 400 years, but as of today, we're all equal, regardless of the overwhelming economic and societal barriers to your success as a group. WHAT MORE DO YOU PEOPLE WANT????"

to those saying some blacks they have know were held back by their peeps, yeah i too have seen this. the guy who told me about it was so frustrated and mad and sad and -- but he went on striving and getting ahead. he did it for himself and his wife and family.

that was in new orlans in the late 80s. as much as katrina hurt the city it did give it a chance to start over with out some of the blight and the projects. we shall see. so far it's slow going but there is promise.

Summercat:discrimination against members of said culture (as well as those trying to break out of said culture by being called Uppity), leading up to the present day...

Anyone trying to improve their lot in life has been called uppity by others that don;t try, especially in the South. "Acting white" should not be a label placed on successful black people by other black people.

smitty04:Summercat: discrimination against members of said culture (as well as those trying to break out of said culture by being called Uppity), leading up to the present day...

Anyone trying to improve their lot in life has been called uppity by others that don;t try, especially in the South. "Acting white" should not be a label placed on successful black people by other black people.

You're right. The urban culture that disdains education and legitimate work and playing things straight...that's a horrible thing that can only be undone by having leaders of that community meet it head on with a reprimand and a demand for them to take responsibility for their lives.

That begins and ends with the current generation. You don't see me blaming people for one ancestor being an indentured servant and another, centuries ago, being a slave do you? No, because it has jack all to do with today. People need to grow up and take responsibility for themselves.

You really are that stupid, aren't you. So why is there a disparity between the percentage of blacks in the population and in prison? Is it because they fail to take responsibility for themselves? What's the easy answer you pull out of your ass for this one? You know the one that doesn't involve actual thought, or any work.

Gulper Eel:And a 'hero' tag for making the same point Daniel Patrick Moynihan made 48 years ago?

4/10 because even now the needlessly messianic angle will get plenty of nibbles.

I think Obama resonates a bit more with the target audience. And furthermore, should we stop talking about freedom, and democracy, and the rights as well as the responsibilities of the members of our society because someone spoke of it 50 years ago? You'll be out of material quite fast if you are going with "Simpsons Did It!" as the standard.

"It's just that in today's hyperconnected, hypercompetitive world, with a billion young people from China and India and Brazil entering the global workforce alongside you, nobody is going to give you anything you haven't earned."

oh thank goodness we're ending affirmative action... hold on... oh jheesh, a phone call from the IRS. i'm being audited. i can't believe they called on a Sunday!

Infernalist:Summercat: Princess Ryans Knickers: gilgigamesh: At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.

That begins and ends with the current generation. You don't see me blaming people for one ancestor being an indentured servant and another, centuries ago, being a slave do you? No, because it has jack all to do with today. People need to grow up and take responsibility for themselves.

So, showing a line of cultural development that was originated in the 1700s plantation slave culture of the Deep South and Tidewater, along with continuous impact of development from the immediate antebellum impact upon said developed culture, and the additional 100 years or so of institutionalized discrimination against members of said culture (as well as those trying to break out of said culture by being called Uppity), leading up to the present day...

Means absolutely nothing. Culture and historical background means nothing, there is no such thing as context, and Mitt Romney wasn't born with a golden spoon in his mouth on third base.

Got it.

/You sir, are a fsking moron.

Some people refuse to acknowledge the institutionalized racism that even still exists, albeit quieter and less obvious than it was in 1960.

Got into an argument on a messageboard (my first mistake, I know) with someone who literally said that racism in modern America no longer existed and therefore no longer needed to be accounted for.