I had a much harder time buying Jericho over Van Dam. I maintain that if kayfabe if your game, Jericho had NO CHANCE. In non-kayfabe terms, Jericho is a guy whose main event runs tanked time after time. RVD, on the other hand, was a potential successor to Austin and Rock who was held down by political interests. I would even argue RVD at the peak of his popularity was far more over than Jericho at the peak of his.

Anyhow, I thought Tasty said WM6. In response to the question he actually posed, it's another match that's hard to judge as I didn't live through it. Warrior's "calling to the heavens" act might have worked then, but when I watch it today, I cringe.

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I would argue in the past decade no one with maybe the exception of Hardy has been more over than RVD. It didn't matter to much of the posters than RVD has beaten Jericho clean more times than vice versa. It was all about how Jericho is a better wrestler than RVD. The large discrepancy in the voting gave Jericho supporters a reason on why he should have beaten Hart.

Even the greatest in the business were on top or over for a short period of time. Austin was on top from 1997-2001 and Rock from 1998-2002. Unless you're Hogan or maybe Flair, you're not going to have a prolonged run at the top.

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...Did you really just say that the Rock and Austin were only over for 3-4 years? This Jerry. This is why we don't take you seriously. I guess my ears were imagining the massive pops that Austin continues to get to this day, or his Hall of Fame induction. Guess my ears were playing tricks on me when the crowd popped like crazy just for a pre-taped vignette of the Rock on an episode of Smackdown last year. Austin and Rock could both return to wrestling today and would get bigger pops than 99.9% of the roster.

Warrior came back...and nothing. No one cared, not even a little bit. He squashed HHH at Wrestlemania, had one of the most embarrassingly awful feuds of all time with Goldust (their match at IYH: Good Friends, Better Enemies is quite possibly the worst match I've ever seen in my life, if you could even call it a wrestling match, which it simply wasn't.) They hyped his return for weeks and weeks and when he came, no one cared. He dropped down to the midcard and was gone within a few months again because he couldn't get over again.

When that money is made entirely because of his wrestling career, yes.

How is this a bad argument that Foley was a draw? JBL didn't make his money from telling stories about his wrestling career, now did he? If you're making the WWE a shit-ton of money with your merchandise, you're drawing. It's not all about attendance, it includes everything from TV ratings to merch sales, all of this "draws" money.

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That's an absolutely bollocks argument. Buying merchandise may qualify, because that is dependant on how over someone is. A well written book is independant of wrestling ability though. If your giving Foley credit for bringing in WWE money, then you better be prepared to argue that Jakks Pacific is also a better wrestler than a world champion.

People didn't run out to buy Foley's book in mass because they wanted to read about his childhood or something, they bought it because Foley was a huge star during the most popular period in wrestling history and he drew them in on that alone. This is pretty much the definition of drawing money, doesn't have to be live attendance.

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They bought it for the novelty of reading a well written genuine autobiography from within the wrestling world. If Al Snow had written the same book, it would have done as well in the mainstream market. It's drawing money, but not by being a wrestler. The guy who makes the video packages that Shawn Michaels praised last week is probably more responsible for PPV buys in the last 5 years than anyone but John Cena, but it doesn't make him a draw.

Wrestlemania 6 was just as much about Hogan as it was Warrior, so I'm not sure why you're giving Warrior all the credit for that PPV buyrate.

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Because Hogan headlined WrestleManias VII and VIII and garnered less of an audience. I'm not giving Warrior all the credit, I'm saying he was better than most of Hogan's contemporaries.

Never said he was a bad draw, just an entirely overrated one. Remember his 1996 return to the WWF and how massively that flopped? Nobody gave a fuck about him anymore and that was only six years removed from main eventing Wrestelmania and pinning Hulk Hogan clean.

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So a guy who hadn't wrestled for four years had lost relevance. SHIT THE BED. Tell me, did the ratings of TNA change in the slightest when Foley, who had been wrestling semi regularly and had just had 6 months in the WWE showed up? No, they didn't.

A) Allegedly difficult backstage? I don't think they fire people (more than once) for "allegedly" being difficult backstage.

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Vince McMahon fires people for a lot of different reasons. In all likelihood he was a cock, but then, so were a lot of wrestlers. It doesn't count against the Archbishop of Cunterbury Shawn Michaels, but it does tarnish Warrior's image for some reason.

B) Really not seeing how he's a bigger draw than Foley. Because of Wrestlemania 6? That was a different era, who had the highest rated segment in the history of professional wrestling on television? Mick Foley doing one of his classic promo segments with The Rock.

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Firstly, you berate me for forgetting Hogan, and then use an angle that focussed on The Rock to justify Foley being a bigger draw. Secondly, that was the highest ever rated segment of Raw. The SNME when Warrior teamed with Hulk Hogan drew 10.0. The ones that featured him as champion scored a minimum of 8.7, which is still more than the highest rated Rock with his sidekick Mick segment of all time. He's a bigger draw because more people paid to see him in arenas and on PPV and more people tuned in to watch him on TV. It's pretty fucking simple how he was the bigger draw.

C) A better Foley non-gimmick match than Warrior's match at Wrestlemania VII? Pretty easy, Mankind vs. HBK at Mind Games in 1996. I'd also rank his back-to-back matches on PPV in 1998 with Austin as Dude Love above the Wrestlemania VII match. Foley was/is certainly a better worker than Warrior. He's a far better wrestler all-around as well, be it his promo skills his selling or his technical ability, Foley is superior to Warrior in every one of those categories.

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Ok, I'll grant you that Foley has had good matches. I don't think I've actually seen the Mind Games one, but I think the Dude Love ones weren't as good. Whatever, this is opinion, and I was pointing out that Warrior isn't the shit worker people make out.

Warrior kind of sucked. Massively. I can literally count on one hand the amount of good matches he had in his entire career. I wouldn't even be able to get through Foley's WCW run without having to start growing new hands to count how many classic matches the man has had.

...Did you really just say that the Rock and Austin were only over for 3-4 years? This Jerry. This is why we don't take you seriously. I guess my ears were imagining the massive pops that Austin continues to get to this day, or his Hall of Fame induction. Guess my ears were playing tricks on me when the crowd popped like crazy just for a pre-taped vignette of the Rock on an episode of Smackdown last year. Austin and Rock could both return to wrestling today and would get bigger pops than 99.9% of the roster.

Warrior came back...and nothing. No one cared, not even a little bit. He squashed HHH at Wrestlemania, had one of the most embarrassingly awful feuds of all time with Goldust (their match at IYH: Good Friends, Better Enemies is quite possibly the worst match I've ever seen in my life, if you could even call it a wrestling match, which it simply wasn't.) They hyped his return for weeks and weeks and when he came, no one cared. He dropped down to the midcard and was gone within a few months again because he couldn't get over again.

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I'm talking about when they were active wrestlers. The main reason Rock was insanely over is because Austin was out injured. When Austin came back, you saw the Rock moved back down to #2 or #3 depending on how you viewed HHH. If Austin would have had that surgery when he was supposed to, the Rock would never been as big as he was.

Warrior is just another case of a wrestler who should have retired on top or close to it. The main reason Flair is glorified by WWE because he came back and wrestled from 2002-2008. That same reason is why he was despised and felt he should have retired years ago. You think Flair wouldn't have been better remembered if he retired fifteen years as opposed to two years ago.

It's hard to get over again. Michaels proved that you can do it but you can't find too may others that can.

Yeah. I'll be voting kayfabe if I want to, or outside of kayfabe if I want to. Mostly kayfabe though. Probably. I don't know just yet. But the beauty of the thing is that I can post however I want to as long as it's not spam. And I'm pretty good at the whole my posts not being spam bit.

FromtheBack will have a set of wrestlers we are backing, which will be announced at a later date. Expect Batista and John Cena amongst those. However, if Evan Bourne somehow made it through the "no jobbers" rule then I riot. And FromtheBack will bring our full force down upon his lowly head.

I did that whole Four to Vote For thing last year. Picked wrestlers I thought would be "interesting" to back. What a fucking dope I was. Why back someone interesting when I can back the apex predator in wrestling? Vintage Sam.

Campaign Headquarters are on sale right now. Get 'em while they're hot. Someone back Cena - I wouldn't want to have to create two campaign HQs.

I'm talking about when they were active wrestlers. The main reason Rock was insanely over is because Austin was out injured. When Austin came back, you saw the Rock moved back down to #2 or #3 depending on how you viewed HHH. If Austin would have had that surgery when he was supposed to, the Rock would never been as big as he was.

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Really because I thought The Rock was cheered for because of his character. I never knew that the fans said to themselves "Well our favorite Austin is gone, lets back somebody we wouldn't insanely cheer for if he were still around." I must've missed that. No doubt that The Rock and Trips benefited the most from Austin's absence, but to say that their success was mostly due to him being gone is a blind statement. If Austin never had the surgery, The Rock would still be as big and get as big of a reaction as he did with Stone Cold gone. He may have lost a few main event opportunities, but you best believe that they would have built The Rock up as a huge face which would have resulted in a rematch between the two down the road. Sooner than WM17 obviously. The Rock was himself and the fans loved it, not because the other face of the company wasn't around.

Warrior is just another case of a wrestler who should have retired on top or close to it. The main reason Flair is glorified by WWE because he came back and wrestled from 2002-2008. That same reason is why he was despised and felt he should have retired years ago. You think Flair wouldn't have been better remembered if he retired fifteen years as opposed to two years ago.

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Better remembered for what? His work declined over the years, that isn't much of a secret in the same way that Hunter being a McMahon isn't a secret. I don't see how he could be better remembered if he had retired before wrestling hit it's second peak as opposed to retiring in 2008. I've never believed that a wrestler could tarnish their legacy by staying around too long. Maybe for fans with short term memories, but for those who remember a legends golden age know who they were and how good they were. None of that changes. The fans of today may have seen him as an old man with saggy boobs, but the fact that his retirement was such a big deal told the new generation that this man is a legend in the business and potentialy inspired a new generation to learn who Flair was. Retiring fifteen years ago wouldn't have achieved this.

It's hard to get over again. Michaels proved that you can do it but you can't find too may others that can.

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Except any time Austin returns to promote whatever he's doing or anytime Hogan made an appearance. If you were good enough and made people genuinly care about what you did, then it will stay with them.

CHRIS JERICHO. I'm going to vote for him of course. If anyone needs any persuading, FREE Jerichol! Like Alchol but with added wrestling. And is anyone (maybe Phoenix) fixing us a sig to use for the campaign?

I'm going to be pulling for one wrestler per bracket. Out of Chicago, I'm going to be supporting Kenta Kobashi. Doubt he's going to win but I'll be pulling hard for him. Brock Lesnar has a legit shot at winning this, and he's my pick out of Toronto. I've got Benoit out of Tokyo. The guy was one tough SoB and has experience in Japan. Finally, after being convinced by Lariat, Stan Hansen out of Mexico City.

I'm amazed. I'll be flatout honest, Toronto is going to be the single toughest Region for anyone to get out of alive. And I swear, if anyone of them wins this entire thing.. either they deserve it more than the rest. Or a ton of people never factored in the rules of how only selective amounts of days by-pass per round.. because clearly, the Toronto Region winner is going to be dead ass tired by the end of it all.

As for my personal favorite, Edge. I'll admit when shit looks bleak. Edge is very heavily favored to suddenly drop out of the Tournament after hitting the Finals last year, in the mere First Round. However, if this happens - just like last year - I won't be disappointed, because Bret Hart has been the one guy I've long since said would be worthy to go over him. Mind you, I'll still fight for Edge until the final vote is tallied.

Looks like guys such as The Undertaker, Shawn Michaels and Hulk Hogan are all practically getting a bye in the First Round.

As God is my witness, I will find some random amount of pure crap to say, that makes Moolah look like a winner in her match. (perhaps the age-old: Hulk would never hit a Woman, and thus he'd lay down tactic?)

And Don't sleep on Jeff Jarrett against HBK, or C.M. Punk. Thats all I'm gonna say.

Having seen the Draw, the outcome of this tournament relies on one subregion, and one region alone, Vancouver. If anyone but The Undertaker comes out of there, then this is Shawn Michaels' tournament. If Taker does come out, then it will be Taker and Jericho in the final.

Having seen the Draw, the outcome of this tournament relies on one subregion, and one region alone, Vancouver. If anyone but The Undertaker comes out of there, then this is Shawn Michaels' tournament. If Taker does come out, then it will be Taker and Jericho in the final.

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As much as I'm a fan of Edge, I'm an enemy of the Undertaker, Hogan and Austin. Those three are on my list to try and eliminate as quickly, as possible. Including if I have to back Brock Lesnar. (which, to be honest, Shocky and 48.7 are making me just as sick of hearing about him - as I made everyone toward Edge, a year ago.)

My top favorites are as follows.

1. Edge (naturally, but not likely to go anywhere)2. Bret Hart (repeat/first one to win two tournaments, let alone back-to-back)3. Underdog (Jericho, Japanese Wrestler, someone else)4. Moolah (why she's in it, is beyond my understanding - but if the Staff want to mock this tournament and show it to be shit, then I'll do the best I can to make sure they get their wish)

4. Moolah (why she's in it, is beyond my understanding - but if the Staff want to mock this tournament and show it to be shit, then I'll do the best I can to make sure they get their wish)

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I have literally no clue how you can say that, when over 100 'shit' wrestlers have actually been taken out this year. Moolah was a staff pick for fun, I assume. None of us think our picks will win, or they'd have been in the list of top wrestlers. Therefore a few of us have just chosen fun people, or people we enjoyed. Moolah wasn't my pick, but meh. I'm voting her too, Moolah FTW.

I've joked with selective friends over the tournament being rigged. Moolah is in the thing, for crying out loud. However, someone (Staff member, mind you) mentioned something to me in one of my rigged convos in which they said something along the lines of - "If this were to happen, (being rigged) it would show how immature, and completely unrespecting the Staff would be - not just to you, but to everyone, to rig whats considered the biggest tournament this site has seen, all for a specific guy."

Its an internet tournament. One in which I've proven I could get a guy, from near as I can tell, over half the regulars on this forum believe doesn't deserve anywhere near the Elite 8.. to the Finals. That, to me, is impressive.

If, for whatever reason, KB or anyone for that matter - rigged this tournament, specifically for Edge, or anyone else - then its sad and pathetic. (KB even said something along the lines of this, when accusing me of something similar.)

I have literally no clue how you can say that, when over 100 'shit' wrestlers have actually been taken out this year. Moolah was a staff pick for fun, I assume.

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I'd rather see a guy like The Great Khali, who has had serious victories over The Undertaker. In. Instead of a joke pick, that likely will be voted out 98-7, against someone that is considered one of THE BEST, if not "the best" in Professional Wrestling today.

None of us think our picks will win, or they'd have been in the list of top wrestlers. Therefore a few of us have just chosen fun people, or people we enjoyed. Moolah wasn't my pick, but meh. I'm voting her too, Moolah FTW.

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Agreed. And to be honest, I hope everyone who votes in this tournament takes the same approach to it. Since she's in, joke or not, I'm gonna vote for her. I can only hope enough others do as well. (Afterall, Hogan is one of 3 I want OUT.)

Well, I was completing my bracket and realized that this year, there are going to be some EPIC encounters very early in the tournament. There's going to be shit storms of debate this year and just seeing the match-ups makes my mouth water waiting for this tournament to start. Because of the way that the match-ups worked out I have Bret Hart winning again, but I can honestly say that ANYTHING can, and probably will, happen. What a great idea having random drawings for the first round. If you guys wanted an exciting and unpredictable tournament this year, congratulations you just accomplished that. I hope everyone is ready!

I'd rather see a guy like The Great Khali, who has had serious victories over The Undertaker. In. Instead of a joke pick, that likely will be voted out 98-7, against someone that is considered one of THE BEST, if not "the best" in Professional Wrestling today.

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You should've stayed on staff and picked him . As I said, none of our picks are going to win, I just chose 2 wrestlers I enjoy.

The way everyone talked about this tournament I knew it had to be awesome but I was not sure why (its my first one) until I read through this thread and a little bit of last years. This is going to be quite entertaining. I am not sure who I am going to be backing, but I know that I am not rooting for a repeat champ and will expend most of my energy keeping Jericho from making it further than he deserves to. Although he is already sounding like this years edge which may prove to be annoying.

It is a little surprising that none of Hogan, Flair and Austin have ever won. So I may have changed my mind from my original idea of backing underdog types and maybe it is time one of the generally accepted answers to the greatest ever question takes this thing although the first two have a stigma this year that will likely hurt them. I was a big Austin mark when I first got hooked on wrestling and no matter how smarky I may have become I cannot get it out of my blood. So hopefully the ring isn't put together well in round one and he rolls from there.

How is Jericho this years Edge? Jericho is a great wrestler. Edge is a good wrestler. Jericho is a multiple time wrestler of the year. Edge, not so much. Jericho deserves to win but, I unfortunately see his faltering to Austin.