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Dear Graham,
I do aikido despite my body being out of commission and my mind like a bag of spanners.Cheers, joe

Ha, ha, enlightenment!

There's one thing I can say about you Joe and that is that you definitely do Aikido. With all those spanners I bet you've been into a great array of nuts and bolts of Aikido in your time. With a few extra spanners for those stubborn nuts.

There's one thing I can say about you Joe and that is that you definitely do Aikido. With all those spanners I bet you've been into a great array of nuts and bolts of Aikido in your time. With a few extra spanners for those stubborn nuts.

Peace. G.

Wow! Can aikido be done without a mobilizable body?
I love it. New thread perhaps?

My Yanagi teacher used the strategy of his art both in the courtroom and in all human negotiations. A Real llive Yoda, he is.

And we taught work tasks using the body mechanics skills from the internal martial arts to government agencies, universities, and corporations. And as our bodies become limited, using what we have efficiently to accomplish the same result was a great creative project in Aiki. All of this, to me, was
doing Aiki.

Do you limit Aikido just to a body art? I affirm the body art. I affirm all you say about it. I affirm Dan and his skills. I honor my teacher.

But what are you, as a teacher, offering Stephen who just had a stroke? He is in a wheel chair? So is Joe Arriola. How about a paraplegic. Can they study aikido? Is someone allowed to ask such a question under this thread or on this site?

Is your definition of Aikido reductionistic? I am asking this in sincerity.

Gary,
But what are you, as a teacher, offering Stephen who just had a stroke? He is in a wheel chair? So is Joe Arriola. How about a paraplegic. Can they study aikido? Is someone allowed to ask such a question under this thread or on this site?

Is your definition of Aikido reductionistic? I am asking this in sincerity.

Chris

Chris
Your questions above are like asking me why I don't like motherhood, apple pie and the American flag....how am I suppose to answer them....

My part in this thread was directed at Graham in response to his laying out of his version of Aikido. My questions to him about his nikkyo were ask for me to get a better understanding of how he did these mechanically.... I got my answers and when I shared my approach it was clear to my we were not on the same page or that any effort at an understanding of what I was doing was taking place. I am fine with that......

Somehow folks seem to think that the body is the third wheel in the set and you only have to make sure it works at a cooperative level with others. Like your Yanagi teacher I am doing my best to figure out how to work around the body parts that don't function like they did when I was 55 or younger. The parts still function, but they seem to wake up at different times or decide on their own to take a break from time to time.

My talking body was NEVER to say that one needed to have a perfect body to do any of this or that people couldn't work their approach to this art from where ever they are coming from.

Spirit is not first with me....it is just one of a set.....leave one out, short one in practice...the whole is less than the sum of the parts. And cooperative practice is not the key here.

Good points. Training is adaptive. You can choose to do that or not. As I get older, my training certainly is changing. That said, how I currently train...not a place for kids or wheelchair bound individuals.

My son is 12 and he is studying Aikido. Albeit with a different teacher that teaches kids.

Much like Gary, I've said before. I am good with Graham doing whatever Graham wants to do. Based on our conversations, we don't have much common ground hence why I don't engage too much with him here. Not a big deal.

Why would you say you are disappointed in me after I suggest having a new thread for Aikido taught as strategy (one of John Clodig's teachings) or as efficiency in daily work tasks (another of John's teachings)?
I suspect we were having two separate conversations with Graham.
I have doubted you two will find common ground using words and have said so on the other thread.
And under a thread that talks about Spiritual Aikido, I do not think what I said was inappropriate.

We can talk off line if you prefer.

Kevin, thanks for your input. I love to train hard. What has been just as hard and fulfilling for me as an adult warrior has been to find ways to give space to the ADD child and others who might benefit from training. But that is my path. Other's have their own path.

Much like Gary, I've said before. I am good with Graham doing whatever Graham wants to do. Based on our conversations, we don't have much common ground hence why I don't engage too much with him here. Not a big deal.

Kevin, I was on the road earlier and answered rather hurriedly. I think I side tracked a bit in adding my approach to teaching kids. That is another discussion I would love to have some day.

I, too, am good with Graham being responsible for his own path. I have two presuppositions in coming to this forum after a 3 year hiatus. I mentioned them in other threads but not in a systematic way. So here they are:

1. Things that have substance, need no defense.
2. I choose to focus upon irenics ( what we have in common) rather than polemics (what we
appear to or actually disagree upon). Engaging in hot topic polemics in an Internet forum seems
to generate more heat than light. Belly to belly, folks sort such stuff out much better and often
laugh and share a brewsky afterwards. Those who choose not to go face to face, well, they
choose their own forms of isolation.
I am very grateful for our discussions in 2008-9. I am grateful for Robert Johns and Dan Harden's
communications back then. They caused me to test my current skills against all comers at the
Arnold Challenge. The photo I am using as an Avatar is from that time.
The guy who got uprooted and pushed out if the ring is Timothy Hwang. This photo was taken the
day before the event. I was fortunate a photographer was present. Tim is a pretty solid player in
extreme push hands.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InDLB...e_gdata_player
Perhaps I needed to know for myself if I still had what it takes to play against national class guys
in a Freeform competitive venue. My illusion completed, I now enjoy just training until.....

Three pages in I find nothing of substance either in classical reference, or in a practical new age reference as to how anyone's spirit informed their aikido....it all seems to be an etherial romp of vagueness without meaning.
I think, therefore I am....aikido...
I thought...and then I failed in applying aiki...in front of someone who actually understands Ueshiba's "I am the universe."

There is a very real and practical method which joins the classical model with the hippy wanna-be's who just don't get how it all applies.
Aiki...is not...and never was...about joining. Solo training and spiritual reference had substance and meaning. The real work was done BEFORE ever touching hands.
Dan

Three pages in I find nothing of substance either in classical reference, or in a practical new age reference as to how anyone's spirit informed their aikido....it all seems to be an etherial romp of vagueness without meaning.
I think, therefore I am....aikido...

Hi Bud
It can be difficult to train here and there and then be on film statingOkomoto does this
Yanagi ryu does that
Kodokai does this

There is a well known guy in the Northeast who did just that and made a fool out of himself selling videos and then going up against some men who actually understood the work this guy was only mimicing.
All is not as it appears either by rank, copying others material, or by affilliation...huh?
See you soon, bud.
Dan

Wow! Can aikido be done without a mobilizable body?
I love it. New thread perhaps?

My Yanagi teacher used the strategy of his art both in the courtroom and in all human negotiations. A Real llive Yoda, he is.

And we taught work tasks using the body mechanics skills from the internal martial arts to government agencies, universities, and corporations. And as our bodies become limited, using what we have efficiently to accomplish the same result was a great creative project in Aiki. All of this, to me, was
doing Aiki.

: )

Chris

Don't do it.......ha, ha. Chris, I did say I like Aikido because all three are taken responsibility for. Aikido is with the body motions of course. Kokyu can be effective without touching though but still there is motion. Effects being caused by not doing so are of course possible but yes that would be another thread and the question then would be is that Aikido?

I would say it's surprising how often Aikido is done in such a way personally but that's another story.

Three pages in I find nothing of substance either in classical reference, or in a practical new age reference as to how anyone's spirit informed their aikido....it all seems to be an etherial romp of vagueness without meaning.
I think, therefore I am....aikido...
I thought...and then I failed in applying aiki...in front of someone who actually understands Ueshiba's "I am the universe."

There is a very real and practical method which joins the classical model with the hippy wanna-be's who just don't get how it all applies.
Aiki...is not...and never was...about joining. Solo training and spiritual reference had substance and meaning. The real work was done BEFORE ever touching hands.
Dan

I must be in a sad state of affairs as I have earned a
BA in Biblical Literature
MA in Church History
Graduated from Princeton Seminary
And am doing a PhD at Wisdom University global Wisdom Traditions.
Not to mention my MA in Security Management.

Again, I have been grateful for your input. This weekend, if you accept me, I will enroll at the Orange County Seminar.

Gary, why do you see it as such? I am more interested in your pluses ie: how and what you do internally, what solo exercises you do that benefit you.

It's not a competition you know and if I do things from a view you don't get it doesn't equal anything except me being open as to how I do things.

Peace.G.

Yet you've never made a single comprehensible post about what you are trying to do, nor a video successfully demonstrating you doing what you tell us you can do. Nor meeting people who can test it either. Hence the doubts.

No..it isn't about a competition...it's about accountability and actual ability to do what we say we can do.
Dan

Do you limit Aikido just to a body art? I affirm the body art. I affirm all you say about it. I affirm Dan and his skills. I honor my teacher.

But what are you, as a teacher, offering Stephen who just had a stroke? He is in a wheel chair? So is Joe Arriola. How about a paraplegic. Can they study aikido? Is someone allowed to ask such a question under this thread or on this site?

Is your definition of Aikido reductionistic? I am asking this in sincerity.

For you Chris. Of course Aikido can be done from a wheelchair. In this day and age of paraolympics it shows all kinds of disabilities can be overcome.

I posted a video of a guy with one arm doing Aikido too a few months ago.

In fact the body itself can be a hindrance at times so are we not disabled too?

Recently my friend was invited to teach our Aikido at a center and was giving solo exercises to practice during the week to the students. They were all of mental 'disabilities' including schizophrenia etc. They all loved it and all gained and looked forward to the next class. Excellent.

Yet you've never made a single comprehensible post about what you are trying to do, nor a video successfully demonstrating you doing what you tell us you can do. Nor meeting people who can test it either. Hence the doubts.

No..it isn't about a competition...it's about accountability and actual ability to do what we say we can do.
Dan

When it comes to video Dan I think you are talking about yourself.

Lot's of comprehensible posts about what I do too. Maybe 'some' can't comprehend as well as they thought they could.

Chris
Your questions above are like asking me why I don't like motherhood, apple pie and the American flag....how am I suppose to answer?

My talking body was NEVER to say that one needed to have a perfect body to do any of this or that people couldn't work their approach to this art from where ever they are coming from.

Spirit is not first with me....it is just one of a set.....leave one out, short one in practice...the whole is less than the sum of the parts. And cooperative practice is not the key here.

see ya

Gary

Eloquently put. I agree whole heartedly. Inner alchemy is key to efficient body work.
I got the impression I had disappointed you by asking the questions I asked. The phone call filled in our disconnect. I am glad we talked. Many of us assumed this happened with just doing Kata. Others of us searched out Chinese teachers. Many followed Mantak Chia's program. Some found better sources than others. We should be grateful to them if the take the time to share it publically.

I do wonder whether Ueshiba also was trained in and practiced a form of shamanism from his experience in Oomoto? If so, how would that correlate to the aikido practice?

Indeed, how much import is given to the connection with Omoto religion? Not enough in my view. The connection with Omoto and Deguchi was all important I would say. Inoue was quite open about this.

Peace.G.

Most likely everyone is familiar with it, but I would like to recommend Frederick Franck's book " an encounter with Oomoto, the great origin, a faith rooted in the ancient mysticism and the traditional arts of Japan (1975).
Franck witnessed a demonstration of Inoue's Shinwa Taido and describes it as " a particular esthetic form of Aikido".
He explains how the "sensuous life-affirmation of animistic Shinto fused with Buddhist acetisme and eschatology and Confucian precepts as filial piety and human-heartedness" was inherited by the Oomoto kyo. "In this spiritual and moral climate the Sacred is not verbalized or systematized, but experienced in manner one might characterize as esthetic". The Oomoto kyo see according to Franck, the esthetic experience in the traditional Japanese arts as poetry, painting, calligraphy, silence, humor, dance, theater, Aikido, as a way to experience the Sacred and to transmit religious moods and values.
The Oomoto kyo see Aikido as a spiritual practice / experience. Not as a fighting method.

Frederick Franck makes an interesting comparison with the French philosopher Teilhard de Chardin and the words of Nao Deguchi and Onisaburo Deguchi. Reading the spiritual ideas of the founders of Oomoto kyo everyone can see where many of O Sensei spiritual thoughts must have had its origin.

It is a small book, but it is filled with nice details and interesting facts.

Frederick Franck (Dutch - American) is known for books like "The Zen of seeing", his art work, and the work he did with Albert Schweitzer. He is the designer/sculptor of the chapel of peace at his home in Warwick, N.Y.