You sound like the founder of planned parenthood. Except she wanted to kill off all blacks.

Oh well. Evolution is very demanding.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spracks21

The women is the one who's body undergoes pregnancy, you do know this right? So in matters relating to her pregnancy, she should be the decider. The fetus is still merely a partial extension of herself, sharing nutrients, hormones, body space, etc. Up until a certain point, once alpha brain patterns emerge for example, it is of no other person's concern what the mother chooses to do with her body.

And if you are going to make ridiculous "According to you.." statements and shout out irrelevant and substance-less Rhetoric, then I'll just ignore you.

Except that a fetus has its own human DNA, it's own heartbeat, and it's own brainwaves. Thus, according to medicine, it is its own, separate life.

__________________In your haste to save the world, take care you don't destroy it.

Except that a fetus has its own human DNA, it's own heartbeat, and it's own brainwaves. Thus, according to medicine, it is its own, separate life.

You're that scientifically inept?

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"Originally posted by visualx: hey everyone, look at me. i call people poor though i make absolutely nothing; brag about my job as an intern or some ****; hate on people for not being fat like me; and absolutely never have any idea what i'm talking about, though i always have a ****ing righteous indignation with everything i say! aren't i ****ing amazing?! do you all like me yet?! oh, you know that hate is just a guise! good thing i have a ****ing amazing life! now let me go **** my fat girlfriend and cry myself to sleep"

We aren't talking science anymore. We're talking morality. Science has very little to do with this. Its become the morality of choice. Otherwise, there would be no standing cause to sue a doctor for malpractice if only the fetus was lost. A woman lost a replaceable part of her body. Would you sue over having your toenails clipped or your hair cut?

It is or it is not a human being. Once that is decided, only then can you make laws about it.

__________________In your haste to save the world, take care you don't destroy it.

The game he's playing is waging a war between NYC & downstate versus upstate. The guy really wants to run for the presidency but can't see how much of a failure he is outside of his NYC and downstate constituents.

Agree with this statement. I would also add that he's a dolt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volucris

Okay. Morally, we can all agree that murder is wrong except in the case of self-defense. Murder is viewed as the killing of another human being. So we must define a human being. Do we classify based upon morphology? If it looks like a baby human being, it's a baby human being?

Indeed. But when women are aborting after 6 months, even 8 months in, you're definitely talking about an infant at that point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treghc

Is a decision like this really immoral? Would you honestly prefer the child live a life of pain and agony, unable to do anything a normal child would enjoy to partake in? How was this mother's decision not a responsible one?

We aren't talking science anymore. We're talking morality. Science has very little to do with this. Its become the morality of choice. Otherwise, there would be no standing cause to sue a doctor for malpractice if only the fetus was lost. A woman lost a replaceable part of her body. Would you sue over having your toenails clipped or your hair cut?

It is or it is not a human being. Once that is decided, only then can you make laws about it.

So then you're trolling.

__________________
"Originally posted by visualx: hey everyone, look at me. i call people poor though i make absolutely nothing; brag about my job as an intern or some ****; hate on people for not being fat like me; and absolutely never have any idea what i'm talking about, though i always have a ****ing righteous indignation with everything i say! aren't i ****ing amazing?! do you all like me yet?! oh, you know that hate is just a guise! good thing i have a ****ing amazing life! now let me go **** my fat girlfriend and cry myself to sleep"

I have very complicated views on the subject. I can' spill them out correctly in a few sentences, but for the most part, I have little to no objection. Call me immoral all you want (you won't be able to stand on any higher ground with that route), but I find no use in anyone unless they contribute something to others. Just as I plan to never be a burden on anyone else when I grow too old to contribute to others (I'd rather just end myself), I feel little to no difference for developing fetuses. I'd rather society utilize their greatest potential output than to have to be forced with the burden of caring for a child they probably can't.

If the family doesn't want the child, they shouldn't be forced to have it. It's like women get abortions for the hell of it. Ask anyone who has had one and they'll tell you it's a very traumatizing experience. I still prefer life over the killing of a developing child, but I have no say over someone else's decision because I'm not in their shoes. First, second, third trimester... doesn't really matter to me. It matters to ones involved with the decision and I don't believe there is anywhere near a majority that takes the decision lightly.

__________________“But men, they say a lot of foolish things. In the end, the only words I can find to believe in are mine." - Joe

I have very complicated views on the subject. I can' spill them out correctly in a few sentences, but for the most part, I have little to no objection. Call me immoral all you want (you won't be able to stand on any higher ground with that route), but I find no use in anyone unless they contribute something to others. Just as I plan to never be a burden on anyone else when I grow too old to contribute to others (I'd rather just end myself), I feel little to no difference for developing fetuses. I'd rather society utilize their greatest potential output than to have to be forced with the burden of caring for a child they probably can't.

Ok then. In holding these complex views, then you essentially publicly state that you hold less regard for human life than your average person, right? While I could care less if you do choose to believe that (my own opinion isn't relevant in regards to this here) you would agree that tighter gun control regulation in order to save lives would seem to contradict your views on abortion and life in general? Not the exact same thing, but the similarities are there. If a parent decides that they can't afford to take care of their 3 year old child, then killing it is an option. Your own logic would indicate to me, that it would be an acceptable course of action? Feel free to clarify.

Have you made a single relevant post to this discussion? No, you haven't.

Relevant? They're all relevant.

Martian, we just left the sick ones to die.

__________________
"Originally posted by visualx: hey everyone, look at me. i call people poor though i make absolutely nothing; brag about my job as an intern or some ****; hate on people for not being fat like me; and absolutely never have any idea what i'm talking about, though i always have a ****ing righteous indignation with everything i say! aren't i ****ing amazing?! do you all like me yet?! oh, you know that hate is just a guise! good thing i have a ****ing amazing life! now let me go **** my fat girlfriend and cry myself to sleep"

No, it's not. Perfection in evolution is survival. You eliminate those who are least likely to survive. That would be the poor, the mentally retarded, and the physically disabled. Why bother bringing them into existence if all they're going to do is be a drag on society?

You know who else shared this viewpoint? Nazis....
They didn't just kill Jews, you know.

And who are you to judge whether a fetus deserves life? Are you the mother? I think it's kind of a stupid argument were having because none of us are women (that I can tell).

Also, there are other options than abortion if you don't want the child. There are plenty of couples that want children and can't have them. Unless the mother's life is threatened, I feel like abortion is a cop out. There are options out there without killing the fetus. Just my 2 cents. And don't bring up rape/incest, that is a tiny percentage of pregnancies.

How is being poor genetic? "Poor" is an economic measurement of success. There is no gene for "poor" in DNA. There maybe be genes for laziness, stupidity and poor work ethic but definitely not for "poor".

Medical definition of death is when the heart stops beating and brainwaves cease. Thus, the opposite is true. A person is alive if they have a heartbeat and/or brainwaves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by benji25

How is being poor genetic? "Poor" is an economic measurement of success. There is no gene for "poor" in DNA. There maybe be genes for laziness, stupidity and poor work ethic but definitely not for "poor".

And yet not having financial means is a reason to have an abortion.

The double standards are running high on both sides.

__________________In your haste to save the world, take care you don't destroy it.

Oh I am not saying that I support abortion. I do not, especially in cases where people were careless and didn't think about the consequences. If you want the rewards of having sex you must live with the results IMO.

Ok then. In holding these complex views, then you essentially publicly state that you hold less regard for human life than your average person, right?

Sure. You could say that. I don't hold life up in a magical pedestal because I see no purpose in it. I enjoy the experiences it brings and the ability to perceive this incredible universe, but I lack any belief in a purpose for it.

Quote:

While I could care less if you do choose to believe that (my own opinion isn't relevant in regards to this here) you would agree that tighter gun control regulation in order to save lives would seem to contradict your views on abortion and life in general?

Not in the slightest. The differentiation is the killing of a productive member of society, or the killing of someone who is being developed to be a productive member of society. I'm alright with abortion if the fetus is aborted due to physical/mental deficiencies or if the to-be child would be more of a hinder to the already productive family than helpful.

BTW, I'm all for guns. I simply enjoy discussing things, whether I believe in them or not. Playing devil's advocate has taught me a lot about many, many things. There's a number of people that know me for doing such things.

Quote:

Not the exact same thing, but the similarities are there. If a parent decides that they can't afford to take care of their 3 year old child, then killing it is an option. Your own logic would indicate to me, that it would be an acceptable course of action? Feel free to clarify.

That issue would be entirely too complex to divulge at the moment. The best option would be to give it to a family in need. Unfortunately, the adoption process has gone full retard and such things are not easily handled.

As I said before, I would prefer the child to be developed to a functioning part of society, contributing something good to those around them.

__________________“But men, they say a lot of foolish things. In the end, the only words I can find to believe in are mine." - Joe

Oh I am not saying that I support abortion. I do not, especially in cases where people were careless and didn't think about the consequences. If you want the rewards of having sex you must live with the results IMO.

it seems like noone can handle any responsibility. it's not hard to prevent pregnancy. it's the stupid people who this would allow to be even stupider. "oh boy i went and slept with 12 dudes and forgot to take my pill and didnt make any of them wear a condom..maybe i should get a morning after pill...naw i'll wait a while...oops now i need an abortion..might as well put it off for a half a year." soon we will be euthanizing 3 year olds.."this kid is just too much trouble; I wasn't ready for parenthood LOL"

but oh its ok...he isn't contributing anything beneficial to society he is just a stupid 3 year old taking up welfare money.

people need to stop being non thinking complacant losers expecting the world to wipe their nose and tell them it's ok they are stupid.