I only have a couple "good" pictures of me at gigs, and here they are:

That's my old kit, a refinished Ludwig Accent. I now have a Masters Studio BSX, but I don't have cases, so it's not going to be use for gigs yet. But rest assured, I will have pictures when they're unveiled to the public.

Have you played any gigs recently or was most of your work back in the 80s?

Toto and the Cars (actually the "NEW" Cars) were both last year.

July and Sept respectively.

We did a show with Uncle Kracker last Nov to a totally packed house of close to 2000 maniacs which was pretty cool.

We Played with Night Ranger and The Tubes (in late July THIS YEAR) at a large festival, and with Extreme and King's X (at the same theater as the Uncle Kracker show).

We played with Randy Bachman/Burton Comings (BTO-Guess Who) last month at the same "shed" as the (New) Cars show....large Pavilion area and a giant "hill".
I forgot my camera that day, but I was on a really cool riser that they rolled in and out.

We've been asked to open for some cool acts and have been really well received (with some very nice words from Simon Phillips (Toto) & Johnathan Mover (Tubes) too!).

We've done shows here and there at smaller clubs (between 200-500 capacity rooms) ourselves (and get to play way longer!).

This year it's just been the large places--I'm not complaining at all, but a longer set time would be great, and a smaller place can be just as fun.

I've done lots of shows since the mid 80's (like a lot of people here!), but I don't have those pics in the computer to upload, but some are kinda funny.

That's cool. I was just poking fun. It's really impressive that you get to play with these big names.

I'm just infinitely confused by these bands who just don't know when to quit...but I guess as long as people are buying tickets...

My only thought on "when they should quit" is if they start to suck as musicians.
Good songs are good songs, so if they can be played well, the group still has the passion to perform, and people will come see it....then do it.

There's a lot of bands out there that are older, but still have chops and can keep up with any band out there.

A perfect example is Cheap Trick.

Not as popular or have the album sales as 20 years ago, but they can still pack a good size venue, and they are constantly on tour with acts that can pack the arenas.
They never put on a bad performance.

They are all great musicians, still write stuff that is good, and Robin Zander is STILL one of the greatest rock singers ever.
he can still hit the high notes and do it all from angy growl to the soft gooey stuff.

This guy can really sing, and I've seen him with the flu and he still sings great--and you could never tell...til after the show.

Bachman/Comings were great. The songs were great, the band they had was top notch, and even though one or two vocal notes weren't as powerful or as high as they were 30 years ago they were still great.

They were nice people, and the guy's in the band were all cool.

The place was sold out, and it's at least a 15,000 capacity venue.
So for a group that's been around 30+ years to pull in 15,000 is pretty good in my book.

...I could post some of he 80's pics...then you could really poke fun haha!...might look funny now, but the chicks really liked that stuff if you catch my drift ;-)

My only thought on "when they should quit" is if they start to suck as musicians.
Good songs are good songs, so if they can be played well, the group still has the passion to perform, and people will come see it....then do it.

Good point. But chops or not, when they quit moving forward creatively, then they become glorified cover bands.

I can respect the business sense in that but don't see much musical integrity in it. I don't know...maybe it's the audience who is to blame for not expecting more?

I can respect the business sense in that but don't see much musical integrity in it. I

Think about it dude, would YOU rather have 'musical integrity' and actually work for a living or play some big songs your band put out x numbers of years ago that people love to hear and make a decent pile of money doing it.

Think about it dude, would YOU rather have 'musical integrity' and actually work for a living or play some big songs your band put out x numbers of years ago that people love to hear and make a decent pile of money doing it.

I have thought about it, for many years. I can't speak to music because I've never wanted to do it for a living. But in my profession I've always chosen integrity rather than fame and money.

Good point. But chops or not, when they quit moving forward creatively, then they become glorified cover bands.

I can respect the business sense in that but don't see much musical integrity in it. I don't know...maybe it's the audience who is to blame for not expecting more?

...hmmm.....something like KISS?...oh wait, you said musical integrity...sorry...hahaha!

When I was a kid I really got into KISS, and I still like a lot of the songs and they are fun to play (cool songs, not R&R All Nite...) and people really dig some of the good obscure stuff when we do a cover.

But the last studio effort (Psyco Circus...uggh jeeze....) was pretty lame (being generous) IMO, there's some decent bits, but .....it's a bad record.

The "Band" is a tribute now to what it was IMO...but people still go and pay to see it.

Eric Singer and Tommy Thayer are great players, but they're in a high paid cover band situation IMO...which wouldn't suck...I'd like to be doing it (maybe--you never know what it's really like!).

I get what you are saying, and it's that way when it's ONE guy and maybe not even the main member going out and calling it "X" like it's "the band".

Thin Lizzy was like that a few years ago. There's one guy from the band, and he was a lesser known guy (and he might not have even been an original member) who hired big name players and went out as "Thin Lizzy".

Kinda lame, on the other hand, it's a great way to see Tommy Aldridge up really close really playing in a gig situation and not in a clinic.

Groups like Bachman/Comings are playing "the hits", but they have people that still want to hear them, and they get hired to do some pretty HIGH DOLLAR events, which say's there's a lot of opportunity out there for a GOOD group other than "touring" and selling records.

If you are a musician, you play.

I was surprised at all the stuff they do--some pretty cool sh*t from what the band was saying.

Cheap Trick.....not just playing the hits and living off the past.
They have a prtety big and loyal fan base too.
Go on their site and look the tour itinerary....lots of dates.

They go to Austrailia in the next month for a bunch of shows, and I think they're pretty solidly booked the rest of the year!
They also put out albums that are good--even though they get no air-play--and they do more than play the hits (which people forget that they have several hits).

The stuff "radio" plays now is full of a lot of the same sounding crap, and with the net, people can discover cool a$$ music like the old days when it was more word of mouth and bands grew a loyal following and not just become the flavor of the month and then fade away.

The Cars...they weren't the original BAND, but with Eliot Easton and Greg Hawkes, they really had the original SOUND, and they played GREAT.
Todd Rundgren can sing in the range covering Ben Orr and Ric Okasek(sp?), and did a fine job....but I can see the "cover band" in that situation, but people loved it, and they sounded great, so the "musical" part was absolutely there.

In my line of work I have picked integrity (and working with good honest people over big money and BS dealing with shallow back stabbing a-holes--I'm in graphic design/advertising) over money as well.
Not that I don't do pretty dang good, but my snare drum collection isn't as cool as some here....I won't mention any names....but there's a custom gold plated engraved snare with their name on it on this forum somewhere.... :-)haha all in good fun!

...hmmm.....something like KISS?...oh wait, you said musical integrity...sorry...hahaha!

When I was a kid I really got into KISS, and I still like a lot of the songs and they are fun to play (cool songs, not R&R All Nite...) and people really dig some of the good obscure stuff when we do a cover.

But the last studio effort (Psyco Circus...uggh jeeze....) was pretty lame (being generous) IMO, there's some decent bits, but .....it's a bad record.

The "Band" is a tribute now to what it was IMO...but people still go and pay to see it.

Eric Singer and Tommy Thayer are great players, but they're in a high paid cover band situation IMO...which wouldn't suck...I'd like to be doing it (maybe--you never know what it's really like!).

I get what you are saying, and it's that way when it's ONE guy and maybe not even the main member going out and calling it "X" like it's "the band".

Thin Lizzy was like that a few years ago. There's one guy from the band, and he was a lesser known guy (and he might not have even been an original member) who hired big name players and went out as "Thin Lizzy".

Kinda lame, on the other hand, it's a great way to see Tommy Aldridge up really close really playing in a gig situation and not in a clinic.

Groups like Bachman/Comings are playing "the hits", but they have people that still want to hear them, and they get hired to do some pretty HIGH DOLLAR events, which say's there's a lot of opportunity out there for a GOOD group other than "touring" and selling records.

If you are a musician, you play.

I was surprised at all the stuff they do--some pretty cool sh*t from what the band was saying.

Cheap Trick.....not just playing the hits and living off the past.
They have a prtety big and loyal fan base too.
Go on their site and look the tour itinerary....lots of dates.

They go to Austrailia in the next month for a bunch of shows, and I think they're pretty solidly booked the rest of the year!
They also put out albums that are good--even though they get no air-play--and they do more than play the hits (which people forget that they have several hits).

The stuff "radio" plays now is full of a lot of the same sounding crap, and with the net, people can discover cool a$$ music like the old days when it was more word of mouth and bands grew a loyal following and not just become the flavor of the month and then fade away.

The Cars...they weren't the original BAND, but with Eliot Easton and Greg Hawkes, they really had the original SOUND, and they played GREAT.
Todd Rundgren can sing in the range covering Ben Orr and Ric Okasek(sp?), and did a fine job....but I can see the "cover band" in that situation, but people loved it, and they sounded great, so the "musical" part was absolutely there.

In my line of work I have picked integrity (and working with good honest people over big money and BS dealing with shallow back stabbing a-holes--I'm in graphic design/advertising) over money as well.
Not that I don't do pretty dang good, but my snare drum collection isn't as cool as some here....I won't mention any names....but there's a custom gold plated engraved snare with their name on it on this forum somewhere.... :-)haha all in good fun!

Kiss WAS cool, they never sold out, they were exactly like they were from the start and never said they were any better musicians than they were. They put together a complete SHOW, lots of bands have done it, they were just more successful at it that's all. I'd say there's PLENTY of integrity there as it hasn't changed since the begining. And what's bad about Rock and Roll all night?? :O The Peter Criss version is a fun song to play to. Let's face it, it's now a classic!! Kiss also gives young drummers something that they can handle at the beginning of the learning curve. And again, it's just fun stuff.

Bands going out as a lesser version sometimes are so bad it's embarrassing, (remember The Sweet?? There were TWO versions BOTH of which were just not up to the task.) however like you said, if they do an UPGRADE, it can be a GREAT thing for the future of a classic band. Let's face it Todd Rundgren is an upgrade, it's kind of like when Joe Walsh joined the Eagles, it was an UPGRADE 'cause everyone KNEW how great HE was!!

Bachman/Cummings aren't the lesser known end of their careers, they are the meat and potatoes and they've both still "got it" so it's all good.

Cheap Trick I believe is the entire original band and again, they still got what it takes to be as good as they were back in the day, maybe better. Bun-E is one of my favorite players.

My day gig? I work for money there, but music? I'll take a fun gig over a money one..
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.. In my line of work I have picked integrity (and working with good honest people over big money and BS dealing with shallow back stabbing a-holes--I'm in graphic design/advertising) over money as well.
Not that I don't do pretty dang good, but my snare drum collection isn't as cool as some here....I won't mention any names....but there's a custom gold plated engraved snare with their name on it on this forum somewhere.... :-)haha all in good fun!

That's totally cool! I'm sure in advertising it very easy to lose yourself for dollar signs and petty politics. I know it can be cut-throat.

Whatever our disagreement on these bands, you seem like a very cool guy, who has the opportunity to play some prestigious gigs. I can dig that a lot.

I have thought about it, for many years. I can't speak to music because I've never wanted to do it for a living. But in my profession I've always chosen integrity rather than fame and money.

That's very cool on paper, but I do want fame AND money, and drumming's not my only profession.
And if you have never wanted to make a living playing music, you may just be on the wrong website, on the wrong forums, posting wrong things ;).

Good point. But chops or not, when they quit moving forward creatively, then they become glorified cover bands.

I can respect the business sense in that but don't see much musical integrity in it. I don't know...maybe it's the audience who is to blame for not expecting more?

...As a member of the audience, all I want from an artist is an honest effort.

I want to get a sense that they are enjoying themselves as much as I am. If I go to see a "nostalgia" act, I want to hear the music and songs that are encoded in my DNA. Most of the concerts that I have been to lately are as much trips back into my past as they are musical experiences.

My wife and I went to see Elton John a couple of weeks ago. He went through his greatest hits, and each song was a memory of a time in my life, both good and bad. Crocidile Rock for example reminded me of junior high, and trying to steal a shirt feel off of Carla Slater. Someone Saved My Life Tonight brought me back to when I worked at Ye Olde Pizza, and how the knob that owned the place ripped me off and bounced a few of my paychecks. Sad Songs took me to the early days of when my wife and I first met, then moved to Northern BC. Every song he played had a place in my past. If he would have played a bunch of new stuff, I would have bood him.

As Karl says, great songs are great songs. As a hobby musician, a lot of these great songs inspire me to play music I enjoy with people that I like being with. I play music, for the same reason that I play hockey. I will never play in the NHL, or a sold out arena tour, so all that is left is fun.

Musical integrity is a term you hear from people who are either really rich and successfull, or poor and unheard of. The real reason that most people want to make a living with music is for money, chicks, and an excuse to sleep untill two oclock in the afternoon.

...Karl.

Randy Bachman and Burton Cummings are often reffered to as the Canadin version of Lennon and McCartney. They were the back bone of the Guess Who, and BTO, and their hits list is a whole other higway through my DNA. I saw them in concert a few years ago, and was floored by their show. I truly envy you for having had the opportunity to share the same stage as them.

Barry

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...if you can't keep it civil, at least make it funny.

That's very cool on paper, but I do want fame AND money, and drumming's not my only profession.
And if you have never wanted to make a living playing music, you may just be on the wrong website, on the wrong forums, posting wrong things ;).

I appreciate your opinion. I understood this was forum for everyone interested in drumming.

Quote:

Originally Posted by baz

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Musical integrity is a term you hear from people who are either really rich and successfull, or poor and unheard of.

Which do you think I am? Though, I don't think you are right that character is only a marker of privilege or rationalization for failure.