Just saw breaking news on CNN that the pipeline is going to be rerouted. Thank you to the water protectors for standing up for what is best. Sad so much sacrifice was required to accomplish this. Heartfelt thanks to those that stood up.

Just saw breaking news on CNN that the pipeline is going to be rerouted. Thank you to the water protectors for standing up for what is best. Sad so much sacrifice was required to accomplish this. Heartfelt thanks to those that stood up.

I'm afraid when Trump gets into office, but meanwhile dapl has gone to court to be able to keep the same route, so many of the brave protectors are still at the Sacred Stone Camp braving blizzard like conditions. Keep sending your thoughts to them and thanks for keeping yourselves informed!

I'm afraid when Trump gets into office, but meanwhile dapl has gone to court to be able to keep the same route, so many of the brave protectors are still at the Sacred Stone Camp braving blizzard like conditions. Keep sending your thoughts to them and thanks for keeping yourselves informed!

Probably not a frivolous suit considering that, according to published reports, the assistant secretary overruled the recommendation of the Corps of Engineers. There's never been that I've seen an explanation of in what respects the Corps's findings were wrong.

There are legal standards for these decisions. If the administrative record supports one decision you can't just disregard the record and rule the opposite for political reasons.

I'd like to read the full decision by the ass't secretary of the Army. Please post a link if you happen to come across it.

As I understand the latest, the federal Court of Appeals on Saturday denied a request for an emergency order to block oil from flowing through the pipeline while an appeal of a District Court decision allowing the completion of the pipeline is resolved.

Police authorities in both South Dakota and Iowa have confirmed incidents of vandalism against the pipeline including someone cutting a hole in the pipeline with a blowtorch.

The highway through the former protest area is supposed to reopen today.

And reportedly oil has begun or will begin flowing through the pipeline sometime this week.

They did, and now the way has been paved for a Presidential permit. It really sucks. what a history this country has, not even one treaty honored. They are just white conservative old rich men running this country.

They did, and now the way has been paved for a Presidential permit. It really sucks. what a history this country has, not even one treaty honored. They are just white conservative old rich men running this country.

Am so sorry this is still happening. The history of this land since the arrival of whites makes me literally ill.

They did, and now the way has been paved for a Presidential permit. It really sucks. what a history this country has, not even one treaty honored. They are just white conservative old rich men running this country.

Am so sorry this is still happening. The history of this land since the arrival of whites makes me literally ill.

And what do you think of the history of this land prior to the arrival of the whites?

They did, and now the way has been paved for a Presidential permit. It really sucks. what a history this country has, not even one treaty honored. They are just white conservative old rich men running this country.

Am so sorry this is still happening. The history of this land since the arrival of whites makes me literally ill.

And what do you think of the history of this land prior to the arrival of the whites?

Based on my readings and my personal experiences with present-day Native-Americans, I believe what the white man referred to as savages were living in a vastly superior culture to the Europeans that arrived here and "discovered" this land.

While I prefer native authors, I believe the most objective book that I've read on the history you inquired about is In The Hands of the Great Spirit: The 20,000 year history of American Indians by Jake Page.

I base my perspective on the honesty and the awareness of the oneness with the rest of nature among native cultures. Then contrast that with the dishonesty and manipulative minds of the whites which led to a nearly unfathomable genocide. I strongly recommend reading Vine Deloria's God is Red if this is a subject that interests you.

Sure, there was warfare between tribes and tortures similar to European history. It is my understanding, however, that the Europeans taught the natives that they manipulated how to scalp.

The Iroquios Confederacy which was an inspiration for the Constitution of the United States indicates to me that they were evolving faster than the Europeans.

I often try to imagine what this land would be like if the white man had never arrived here. Maybe not paradise, but it would be a damn site better than this country I live in now. Our constitution, if you haven't noticed, is nothing more than a meaningless symbol today.

I often try to imagine what this land would be like if the white man had never arrived here. Maybe not paradise, but it would be a damn site better than this country I live in now. Our constitution, if you haven't noticed, is nothing more than a meaningless symbol today.

Maybe. The dearth of domesticable animals would have made advanced civilization of the kind we're accustomed to nearly impossible.

_________________Why can't we sit in the park like other boys and girls?
Why do we have to walk in the subway tunnel?

I often try to imagine what this land would be like if the white man had never arrived here. Maybe not paradise, but it would be a damn site better than this country I live in now. Our constitution, if you haven't noticed, is nothing more than a meaningless symbol today.

Maybe. The dearth of domesticable animals would have made advanced civilization of the kind we're accustomed to nearly impossible.

The slaughter of 60 million buffalo by whites is the first thing that popped into my mind. Dearth? I like having horses here, but not sure cattle for the purposes that we use them for would be missed.

I did a bit of research some time ago on what plants and animals originated here, so I can't spew facts off the top of my head, but I'm certain I've read it estimated that at least 100,000 buffalo once roamed the plains.
I trust you already know they were slaughtered as a means of logistically defeating the Lakota, Cheyenne and Arapahoe, since the U.S. military got it's ass (deservingly) kicked in the plains.

Given the knowledge of preservation of wildlife these tribes had/have, how exactly did you reach your conclusion? Also, what advancements are you thinking would be missing?

I often try to imagine what this land would be like if the white man had never arrived here. Maybe not paradise, but it would be a damn site better than this country I live in now. Our constitution, if you haven't noticed, is nothing more than a meaningless symbol today.

Maybe. The dearth of domesticable animals would have made advanced civilization of the kind we're accustomed to nearly impossible.

You say that as if the "advanced civilization" we have is better than.....WHAT?

"Advances" throughout the millennia are typically measured in things such as strength of military forces and weapons, utilization of technology to expedite food production, and development of peaceful, stable governments. Then there's a strong and growing infrastructure, and cultural advances, too. By these standards, we could say North America is more "advanced" now than it was in 1400.

But even now, we have residents of this land that don't have full benefit of such 'blessings', whose lives haven't been equally impacted by these "advances". Natives are only one (large!) demographic that see this inequity. I personally see True Advancement as a striving for Utopia. Capitalism is less concerned with that. Is THAT "advancement"?

This pipeline project is a prime example: it is for the advancement of the UBER capitalistic petroleum industry. It disregards the higher concerns of a whole population's spiritual quandary, and doesn't care how it all shits on their culture, never mind their drinking water. Where is the "advanced" part of that progress? Somehow, I don't see how domesticated animals (or any other part of the equation) have made us more advanced.

I often try to imagine what this land would be like if the white man had never arrived here. Maybe not paradise, but it would be a damn site better than this country I live in now. Our constitution, if you haven't noticed, is nothing more than a meaningless symbol today.

Maybe. The dearth of domesticable animals would have made advanced civilization of the kind we're accustomed to nearly impossible.

The slaughter of 60 million buffalo by whites is the first thing that popped into my mind. Dearth? I like having horses here, but not sure cattle for the purposes that we use them for would be missed.

Bison aren't domesticable.

Native Americans were pretty far behind the Europeans in agriculture and mining because of the lack of big pack animals native to the new world. The largest domesticated animal of the Americas is the llama, which maxes out at about 1/3 the size of a small horse.

_________________Why can't we sit in the park like other boys and girls?
Why do we have to walk in the subway tunnel?

I often try to imagine what this land would be like if the white man had never arrived here. Maybe not paradise, but it would be a damn site better than this country I live in now. Our constitution, if you haven't noticed, is nothing more than a meaningless symbol today.

Maybe. The dearth of domesticable animals would have made advanced civilization of the kind we're accustomed to nearly impossible.

The slaughter of 60 million buffalo by whites is the first thing that popped into my mind. Dearth? I like having horses here, but not sure cattle for the purposes that we use them for would be missed.

Bison aren't domesticable.

Native Americans were pretty far behind the Europeans in agriculture and mining because of the lack of big pack animals native to the new world. The largest domesticated animal of the Americas is the llama, which maxes out at about 1/3 the size of a small horse.

Native Americans made far better use of this free animal than Europeans did with the cattle. Every single part of the buffalo was used and with reverence and respect for the animal.

It's a myth that the Plains Indians didn't have farms. To be primarily meat eaters requires refrigeration ... They also had a superior understanding of real medicines.

I've thought about my response here all morning. The best answer I can put forth is that we clearly have a different view of what is good.

Well, no, it can be dried and salt cured. It will keep a long time that way. Ch'arki, the Incas called it.

There's also the matter of wheat and barley being better cereals than maize, easier to cultivate and having much higher nutritional value.

I'm trusting what I've learned from Russell Means here. You could not kill a buffalo - a ton of meat - out in the Plains and transport it back to your home.

As you know, I've tremendous respect for your intellect. My years of studying American Indian history and values were, um, interrupted within days of googling The American Indian Movement. I've already attempted to explain this in two previous posts fully aware it was like trying to explain a rainbow to someone that cannot see colors. In this case, be very happy that you don't.

That said, this land rightfully belongs to the American Indians. If ever elected dictator, I pledge to give it back.

I'd like to see this thread move back towards solutions. Too much effort went into stopping that black snake and it needs to die.

This thread is almost becoming humorous, in the way some of you are not getting The Bigger Point.

Euro domination of American lands and cultures isn't about bison or cows. It's all about transportation and weaponry: Euros could get from point A to point B faster and more efficiently with horses and ships, and with metal weapons and gunpowder they could subjugate more thoroughly.

As far as a moral high ground, that's nebulous, too: was the subjugation of natives by Euros any more or less palatable than the action of one native tribe that would eradicate or enslave another tribe? Natives enslaved each other frequently, and human sacrifices were even ritualized. While the Incas were, arguably, possessed of more scientific insight (in certain fields, at least) than Columbus himself, they (and the Aztecs) created empires by way of subjugating others, too.

Biggest, Baddest Dog wins. And while the treatment of Native Americans was abominable, it's no more or less so than what has been ever-present wherever different cultures clashed. Ask the Romans how they treated the Vandals and the Visogoths, and just how that all came back to bite 'em in the ass.

Euro domination of American lands and cultures isn't about bison or cows. It's all about transportation and weaponry: Euros could get from point A to point B faster and more efficiently with horses and ships, and with metal weapons and gunpowder they could subjugate more thoroughly.

It still ties together. Iron mining in the pre-industrial age was difficult to do without large domesticated pack animals, which the Native Americans didn't have. Thus, the Europeans had plenty of iron weapons while the Native Americans had only the occasional small iron knife to supplement their bronze weapons.

As for cows, the Europeans' long contact with a wide variety of domesticated farm and pack animals was a big part of what made their immune systems more robust than those of the Natives. That's why the European diseases devastated the Natives while the Native diseases did little to the Europeans.

_________________Why can't we sit in the park like other boys and girls?
Why do we have to walk in the subway tunnel?

As for cows, the Europeans' long contact with a wide variety of domesticated farm and pack animals was a big part of what made their immune systems more robust than those of the Natives. That's why the European diseases devastated the Natives while the Native diseases did little to the Europeans.

Hmm. Interesting theory. I'd think a superior Euro immunity might actually be more a function of their much higher/more prolonged exposure to various populations over the centuries.
Silk Road exposure, ships from Asia, Mediterranean trade, and Viking expansion made for scenarios like The Plagues, which decimated populations whose survivors grew more disease resistant over the centuries. I still can't see exposure to domesticated animals as that big a factor, given the minimal level of zoonotic diseases that exist, especially in food animals.

As for cows, the Europeans' long contact with a wide variety of domesticated farm and pack animals was a big part of what made their immune systems more robust than those of the Natives. That's why the European diseases devastated the Natives while the Native diseases did little to the Europeans.

Hmm. Interesting theory. I'd think a superior Euro immunity might actually be more a function of their much higher/more prolonged exposure to various populations over the centuries.
Silk Road exposure, ships from Asia, Mediterranean trade, and Viking expansion made for scenarios like The Plagues, which decimated populations whose survivors grew more disease resistant over the centuries. I still can't see exposure to domesticated animals as that big a factor, given the minimal level of zoonotic diseases that exist, especially in food animals.

It all ties together. Though it is not the zoonotic factor, so much as the conditions that come from domesticated animals. The domestication of animals actually helped give rise to the city. No longer did human beings need to move with the migrations of game, while beasts of burden allowed for more efficient agriculture. This allowed humans to settle in one heavily populated location, and to do so in great numbers (without being dependent upon slave labor). The cities themselves were not bastions of sanitation, which led to stronger immune systems in those that didn't die of plague, cholera, typhoid, or the like. You factor in the long range trade and the such that cities helped facilitate, and the immune systems were strengthened even more. The other factor cities played was that less time and labor was necessary to feed the population, which freed up people to focus on other trades. This gave rise to the guild system which was a huge boon to technological advancement. Without cities there would be no guilds and without domesticated animals there would not be the cities.

As for cows, the Europeans' long contact with a wide variety of domesticated farm and pack animals was a big part of what made their immune systems more robust than those of the Natives. That's why the European diseases devastated the Natives while the Native diseases did little to the Europeans.

Hmm. Interesting theory. I'd think a superior Euro immunity might actually be more a function of their much higher/more prolonged exposure to various populations over the centuries.
Silk Road exposure, ships from Asia, Mediterranean trade, and Viking expansion made for scenarios like The Plagues, which decimated populations whose survivors grew more disease resistant over the centuries. I still can't see exposure to domesticated animals as that big a factor, given the minimal level of zoonotic diseases that exist, especially in food animals.

I'm sure that contributed as well. Also the greater population density borne from having superior food sources.

There may not be many zoonotic diseases, but some of them are especially deadly. Smallpox, influenza, tuberculosis, and the like were worse than most of the other infectious diseases.

_________________Why can't we sit in the park like other boys and girls?
Why do we have to walk in the subway tunnel?

As for cows, the Europeans' long contact with a wide variety of domesticated farm and pack animals was a big part of what made their immune systems more robust than those of the Natives. That's why the European diseases devastated the Natives while the Native diseases did little to the Europeans.

Hmm. Interesting theory. I'd think a superior Euro immunity might actually be more a function of their much higher/more prolonged exposure to various populations over the centuries.
Silk Road exposure, ships from Asia, Mediterranean trade, and Viking expansion made for scenarios like The Plagues, which decimated populations whose survivors grew more disease resistant over the centuries. I still can't see exposure to domesticated animals as that big a factor, given the minimal level of zoonotic diseases that exist, especially in food animals.

About 60 percent of all human diseases and 75 percent of all emerging infectious diseases are zoonotic, according to the researchers. Most human infections with zoonoses come from livestock, including pigs, chickens, cattle, goats, sheep and camels.