Call me a fanboy if you wish but my Echo performs quite well. Matter of fact I'm watching it right now. I see the bugs as fixable and there is still 26 calendar days to do that. The current f/w is very stable for me. I may be nieve but I think Jeremy and the ceton team have some tricks up their sleeves coming up.

I think ceton is using it. Maybe the PCB was done in the same plant as the processesors rolled off one end the PCB was assembled at the other end and then put in the Echo case, boxed and shipped. I did not explicitly state this but it is what I had in mind. This is both probable and possible, no?

Really? Pulled back to point of 720p only and PCM 2.0? I like your outlook, but thats alot of ground to cover in a short amount of time. Not to mention there is no talk on thier site of any of this, at all. Seems like a mistake of sorts, or this beta is really not what we think it is.

Just read a post in the Echo beta forum and it would appear that Newegg published the wrong specs for the Echo. The correct specs can be found on the Ceton website. However, the folks at Ceton said that they will still be adding more features to the Echo after product launch. So, if you don't see the feature you want today, stick around as it may be coming in the near future. 1080p and DTS pass-through are two features that are expected to be included in the production model.

Call me a fanboy if you wish but my Echo performs quite well. Matter of fact I'm watching it right now. I see the bugs as fixable and there is still 26 calendar days to do that. The current f/w is very stable for me. I may be nieve but I think Jeremy and the ceton team have some tricks up their sleeves coming up.

Nah, a little kiss can go a long way. We all have different expectations from from the Echo.

I have readjusted my whole thinkong on how I will ultimately move from SageTv to WMC. I think I am going to setup a fanless server of sorts and leave that in my HT on all of the time and use xboxes/Echos for the remote viewing, i.e. kitchen and bedroom. After experimenting with 7MC, it will handel allof the direct rips just fine, so why am I messing around with extenders which can not do the job. Maybe in a year or so things will be differant, just not happening now that's all.

Just read a post in the Echo beta forum and it would appear that Newegg published the wrong specs for the Echo. The correct specs can be found on the Ceton website. However, the folks at Ceton said that they will still be adding more features to the Echo after product launch. So, if you don't see the feature you want today, stick around as it may be coming in the near future. 1080p and DTS pass-through are two features that are expected to be included in the production model.

Actually they said they were not adding additional features only what is posted on there site. Wow, how did you miss there blog post. DTS is NOT going to be part of there release and may not show up for a while.

Just read a post in the Echo beta forum and it would appear that Newegg published the wrong specs for the Echo. The correct specs can be found on the Ceton website. However, the folks at Ceton said that they will still be adding more features to the Echo after product launch. So, if you don't see the feature you want today, stick around as it may be coming in the near future. 1080p and DTS pass-through are two features that are expected to be included in the production model.

Actually they said they were not adding additional features only what is posted on there site. Wow, how did you miss there blog post. DTS is NOT going to be part of there release and may not show up for a while.

I swear it said hopefully soon for DTS passthrough, "In fact I HOPE to have it this week".. Are we all reading the same forum?

Hello Everyone,
Our Chief Marketing Officer, Ed Graczyk, wanted to post this message himself, but is having some issues with his forum account.
Furthermore, I would like to add that as a design engineer at Ceton who is familiar with the project and our objectives, it is premature to make assumptions about the final feature set and performance of the Echo at this juncture. We are committed to meeting the planned specifications listed on the Ceton Echo product page at launch. Our most excellent beta testers are providing valuable feedback to help identify issues at this early stage so that we can provide a positive experience out of the box when we ship the first non-beta unit. We realize some of you are looking for more features than we've listed on our Ceton Echo product page. We do too, but we don't want to promise things until we can deliver them. The Ceton Echo will be an evolving product so if it doesn't meet your requirements for purchase today, please check back with us in the future and we just might have added the features you were looking for.
Best,
Aaron @ Ceton

Quote:

•That said, anyone who has worked with our Support Dept in the past knows that Ceton runs one of the best support operations in the industry, full stop. Most companies will tell you they can't support you if they find that your issue isn't related to their product, as is often the case with PC-related hardware and software. We go above and beyond. With InfiniTV we troubleshoot issues ranging from faulty PC hardware and network controllers, to corrupt third party software and drivers, incorrectly configured routers and network configurations, and mistakes made by the cable company when pairing a CableCARD … just to name a few. We spend HOURS in many cases helping a single customer fix issues that have nothing to do with InfiniTV in the end. We’ll do our best to help Echo customers in the same way but there’s simply no way we can guarantee support for capabilities that either weren’t built into Echo or over which we have little or no control.

This is right on the money. I have had very precious few companies support me like Ceton has (the only other one I can think of is Arcsoft with its TMT). It really does matter.

I think this thread is a great demonstration of why private betas with NDA's are so common. I decided to decline participating because of the current audio and video output limitations (720p and 2 channel PCM), but my understanding was that they asked people to avoid discussing problems with the beta FW in public so Ceton could have a chance to fix things before the product goes to general release. It's going to be tough for them to overcome all the negativity that's being posted here, much of which really isn't fair given that the product is in beta status at the moment (though many of the comments do make me wonder if such a large public beta was premature at this time).

I think this thread is a great demonstration of why private betas with NDA's are so common. I decided to decline participating because of the current audio and video output limitations (720p and 2 channel PCM), but my understanding was that they asked people to avoid discussing problems with the beta FW in public so Ceton could have a chance to fix things before the product goes to general release. It's going to be tough for them to overcome all the negativity that's being posted here, much of which really isn't fair given that the product is in beta status at the moment (though many of the comments do make me wonder if such a large public beta was premature at this time).

To be clear there are/never were any official rules nor request around what could or couldn't be said outside of the official Beta forum (iirc). Myself, I directly asked Ceton and was provided information (somewhat like what you posted) via Email. I also recall another member asking in the private forum but don't recall the exact response.

Did you decide to pull out of the beta because of the leaked info you speak of or because of the published specifications? The latter does not give the necessary details for you to make the decision you did.

I think Ceton's reputation will be ok. They have (IMO) more than enough banked goodwill to come out of this thing otay. Plus, many of the posts I have seen over the last few days, seem to indicate that many people are still anxious and willing to give the product a fair shot.

While DTS decoding it is a ways off (it's probably not technically that difficult- it is probably more a licensing issue), DTS pass-through shouldn't be that difficult. The Newegg specs give us some hope for that.

I got my beta invoice today, and after some deliberation I decided to accept the invite. I'm not real happy with the Echo's current capabilities (still limited to 720P and 2-channel PCM, really?), nor am I pleased with Ceton's level of communication over the past 9 months, but there really isn't anything else out there. Particularly with the rumors of the TiVo Mini delay, what other options for an expandable, whole-home DVR system do I have? So, I'm going to try to make the best of it by doing what I can to test the Echo and send in feature requests. Motz said a few months ago that if the Echo doesn't meet our needs, we have 30 days to return it after it is publicly available. If they can't get 1080i/p output, DD/DTS passthrough, and decent high-bitrate H.264 and VC-1 support working by then I'm going to send it back.

... I'm not real happy with the Echo's current capabilities (still limited to 720P and 2-channel PCM, really?), nor am I pleased with Ceton's level of communication over the past 9 months, but there really isn't anything else out there. ...

That is why we are all here, and you accepted the beta innvite. Hopefully together we can make a differance.

My distention here is soley do to lack on involvement on Cetons part and nothing more. That coupled with there blog release pretty much spells out thier intention. I don't see how or why everyone is still trying to see anything differant then what is stated, it's mind boggeling for me to thnk otherwise... unless your thinking way down the road.

Actually they said they were not adding additional features only what is posted on there site. Wow, how did you miss there blog post. DTS is NOT going to be part of there release and may not show up for a while.

From the Echo beta forum posted earlier today:

Quote:

Hi everyone,

I wanted to let you all know that the tech spec's on the newegg page were posted by them incorrectly. We were not given a chance to review them before it went live and we're working on getting them to change it.

As for DTS, I am certainly hoping to have DTS passthrough at launch (in fact I HOPE to have it this week) but we have to be conservative on what we post spec's at. We can always have more but if we post spec's and fall short we get eaten alive.

We are ABSOLUTELY going to be updating and adding features after launch.

We're working like crazy to get everything ready. November is going to be a very long month for us.

Thanks,
-Jeremy

Apparently you're not in the loop. The blog posting is already outdated.

That was an old blog post (well, a few weeks old). I think skybolt probably saw the message you posted, but didn't want to talk about it because you really shouldn't be reposting stuff from the closed Ceton boards.

As a side note, I do think one part of the blog post is a little disingenuous. To respond to questions about Netflix and Hulu support, they said:

Quote:

Most of the major streaming media sites are moving to HTML5. As those services become available in HTML5 you’ll be able to use them with an Echo. At launch we do not expect you’ll be able to use the Echo with Netflix, which a lot of people have asked about specifically.

To me, it sounds like they're implying HTML5 support could bring Netflix/Hulu support in the future. That seems extremely unlikely. As I think was discussed earlier in this thread, Netflix and Hulu are going to need some sort of DRM. Even if Netflix and Hulu do start using HTML5 for video streaming in the future (Netflix I believe already uses it for the UI), it will almost certainly require DRM features that won't be included on the Echo.

From the Echo beta forum posted earlier today:
Apparently you're not in the loop. The blog posting is already outdated.

Not quite sure you are allowed to do that, but ok. Your right Sammy posted out side the main working forum and I did not follow that post. I posted a similar question in our working thread. With no response. My bad. Not sure it changes much though.

Actually I think Ceton has big plans for the future, but has had more then a few set backs. I think time frames are getting mixed, release verse a few months out.This is obviouly going to be an evolveing product unlike most we are use to. Not to many devices like this plan on doing a face lift after release. But again, are we talking release or future?

To be clear there are/never were any official rules nor request around what could or couldn't be said outside of the official Beta forum (iirc). Myself, I directly asked Ceton and was provided information (somewhat like what you posted) via Email. I also recall another member asking in the private forum but don't recall the exact response.

The "Ceton Echo Beta Starts!" email I (and I would assume all other people who were selected for the beta) received on October 11 contained the following:

Quote:

What are the Ground Rules?

We know you’ll want to talk about the Echo and share your experience. Please be kind :-) The purpose of the beta is to identify and resolve issues. As with all betas, there will be problems you come across; otherwise we wouldn’t need beta programs!

If you’re a blogger or journalist, we would really appreciate if you would hold off any reviews until the end of the beta program when the Echo is ready for release.

For anyone discussing the beta outside of the beta forums, the information on the Echo website is public information. Anything else you might come across during the beta is either Ceton confidential information at the moment or potentially inaccurate rumor and speculation.

(bold emphasis is mine)

At the very least, the implication was not to discuss problems with the beta software outside the beta forums so that Ceton would be given the opportunity to fix problems before the product is officially released. People weren't required to sign NDA's, so Ceton obviously can't force people to do much, but common sense says that much of what's been discussed here really should stay on the Ceton beta forum.

Quote:

Did you decide to pull out of the beta because of the leaked info you speak of or because of the published specifications? The latter does not give the necessary details for you to make the decision you did.

I pulled out of the beta because the information they provided in the same email I mentioned above was very clear that video output would be limited to 720p during the beta and 1080p support would come along at some point prior to launch. The 2 channel audio info did not come from that email, but was leaked here. Either of those limitations on their own would have led to me not spending any time testing the Echo as they're both showstoppers for watching much of the TV that I watch, so I opted out of the beta and sent them an email indicating that I was dropping out and why (and promptly received a "thanks" from them for letting them know).

To be clear there are/never were any official rules nor request around what could or couldn't be said outside of the official Beta forum (iirc). Myself, I directly asked Ceton and was provided information (somewhat like what you posted) via Email. I also recall another member asking in the private forum but don't recall the exact response.

The "Ceton Echo Beta Starts!" email I (and I would assume all other people who were selected for the beta) received on October 11 contained the following:

Quote:

What are the Ground Rules?

We know you’ll want to talk about the Echo and share your experience. Please be kind :-) The purpose of the beta is to identify and resolve issues. As with all betas, there will be problems you come across; otherwise we wouldn’t need beta programs!

If you’re a blogger or journalist, we would really appreciate if you would hold off any reviews until the end of the beta program when the Echo is ready for release.

For anyone discussing the beta outside of the beta forums, the information on the Echo website is public information. Anything else you might come across during the beta is either Ceton confidential information at the moment or potentially inaccurate rumor and speculation.

(bold emphasis is mine)

At the very least, the implication was not to discuss problems with the beta software outside the beta forums so that Ceton would be given the opportunity to fix problems before the product is officially released. People weren't required to sign NDA's, so Ceton obviously can't force people to do much, but common sense says that much of what's been discussed here really should stay on the Ceton beta forum.

Quote:

Did you decide to pull out of the beta because of the leaked info you speak of or because of the published specifications? The latter does not give the necessary details for you to make the decision you did.

I pulled out of the beta because the information they provided in the same email I mentioned above was very clear that video output would be limited to 720p during the beta and 1080p support would come along at some point prior to launch. The 2 channel audio info did not come from that email, but was leaked here. Either of those limitations on their own would have led to me not spending any time testing the Echo as they're both showstoppers for watching much of the TV that I watch, so I opted out of the beta and sent them an email indicating that I was dropping out and why (and promptly received a "thanks" from them for letting them know).

So sounds like they formally asked and should have expected the same. For me I received my echo on the 12 iirc. I was not sure of exact rules so I stayed clear of posting anything which wasn't already in the wild. If anything I have postd is seen negative or contrary to the Ceton policy, I own that one. To be fair most of the negative information is due to lack of or slow communication. Let s be honst the newegg fauxpauz Is theirs to own,.

Actually I think Ceton has big plans for the future, but has had more then a few set backs. I think time frames are getting mixed, release verse a few months out.This is obviouly going to be an evolveing product unlike most we are use to. Not to many devices like this plan on doing a face lift after release. But again, are we talking release or future?

I'm sure they had big plans and the Q was the center of that until MS screwed them over by abandoning WMC. The interesting question is how long it took Ceton to figure this out and what they're going to do about it. Without the Q, IMO, they have a limited upside with the Echo.

First off, I'd rather ceton was putting resources into coding than into responding to forum posts. They have people reading the posts and passing the information to the coders. As far as the Q goes it is the question about WMC in Win8CE that is up in the air. To my knowledge M$ has not stated it won't be in there but I could be wrong. I really don't see any difference in what the Echo can do whether the Q exists or not. The h/w won't change and the f/w can be changed to do the maximum that the h/w can support. As far as the Q goes, extender specific applications can be made to run on anyone's HTPC without the Q being there at all.

True and after 10 months that's the issue. Even if one gets past (the fact) that it brings very little to the table such as its biggest marketing bullet point is... uses less power... you still don't have something that's shipping. It's beyond silly to suggest that future enhancements might make it viable since its current features aren't even working. At some point one has to separate concept from reality. As far as sells go (crystal ball in hand) I can see some initial units via the built-up demand of those who bought into the concept. After that who knows... a large price drop ($99) might claim a few more. I just see little ongoing demand and as such little interest in firmware enhancements down the road.

First off, I'd rather ceton was putting resources into coding than into responding to forum posts. They have people reading the posts and passing the information to the coders. ...

It's not that Ceton needs to respond to this or any other public forums, it's their own forum which is like a ghost town as to what is next or when. And in some cases not acknowledging any of the reported errors and the like. Actually they should stay away from public forums look what has happened before the beta was out.

I think they could just produce an add-on for standard 7MC and achieve the same thing as was intended with the Q. I would think that is completely do-able.

One of the reason's we don't post a ton on here is because we are spending our time working on the project. We try to be somewhat active and we have people who are reading your posts and gathering information.

Have you not read this?

The thing is, is they responded earlier in the week after releasing the last f/w. There's no reason to respond again and again confirming that an issue persists when they can spend that time fixing it, which I believe they will. I don't need to have ceton placate me on my every post; I am not that narcissistic.