by mookalovesgloop on Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:20 pm ([msg=68988]see can of worms, i'd like to introduce you to can opener...[/msg])

peaceso it seems like you guys are mostly reasonable people, hopefully somebody will be able to feel where i'm coming from

well one of those programs about LGBT issues was on today and caught my attention for a few minutes, specifically a segment where they tried to compare the issues that the--how do you genteely say it--"alternative" population face to the civil rights movement/era of the past...

now i'll be the first to say that i have no issues with the way any responsible adult man or woman decides to live their life, i don't think that gays are "condemned" or "repulsive" or any garbage like that, but as a black woman, it bugs the shit out of me that society could possibly consider that the struggles and injustice the two groups have been subjected to are in any way the same thing...

to take it down to brass tacks, a homosexual person has the option to discontinue their way of living or even just hide it from general knowledge and their problems are solved. i can't think of a single instance during the jim crow era when one of my coal-black forbears ever had the option to simply stop being a second class citizen by reason of his melanin levels...by the same token, i've never heard of an afro sporting brown or black skinned person simply "hiding" their blackness from the public eye and being regarded as anything other than a you-know-what back then...

it seems to me that they're trying to make light of history by blurring the lines and adding irrelevant issues to the FACTS...but maybe it's just me...thoughts?

I see where you're coming from and I can tell you honestly, you're being a little judgemental. Now before I start, I want you to note that I am not racist or hateful of any group or ethnicity. I base my opinions of people based on how I perceive them acting, and not by what history tells me.

Now first off, there are reasons that different people became hateful of one another, but those reasons are now very much old. For example, just because Napolean invaded Russia long long ago, its not a reason for Russians to hate the French today. Ages have past, people get over it, it's a new world.

mookalovesgloop wrote:it seems to me that they're trying to make light of history by blurring the lines and adding irrelevant issues to the FACTS...but maybe it's just me...thoughts?

The thing is, that in today's society, so many black people use the times of slavery as an excuse to be hateful and racist towards white people. By 'blurring the lines' and forgetting the past, you essentially level the playing field for everyone. If no one remembers the times of slavery, how are blacks supposed to get angry over it? Sure it's history and all, but it was painful back then, and I argue that it's no less painful today. We should really just get over it now.

mookalovesgloop wrote:a homosexual person has the option to discontinue their way of living or even just hide it from general knowledge and their problems are solved

That is not entirely true. If that person ever told his friends or family of it, then he is branded gay by them for his life. Sometimes these people might even post such facts on the internet, where it remains for eternity. Also, it is fairly common for gay people to distribute STD's (I forget the statistics, but a very LARGE percentage of HIV carriers are homosexual), which can harm them for ages.

mookalovesgloop wrote:i can't think of a single instance during the jim crow era when one of my coal-black forbears ever had the option to simply stop being a second class citizen by reason of his melanin levels...

Fredrick Douglas. but not because of melanin levels, but because of knowledge and wisdom.

mookalovesgloop wrote:by the same token, i've never heard of an afro sporting brown or black skinned person simply "hiding" their blackness from the public eye and being regarded as anything other than a you-know-what back then...

I can understand the jim crow era, but come on. Not everyone is hateful of everyone else in this era. I personally never hate anyone until I have gotten to know them well enough to hate them. Although there are white people that curse at black people for being black, always remember that there are also black people that curse at white people for being white.

I know that this is a very difficult part of ethics and has been so for centuries for ages, but it's not wise to poor salt into old wounds.

by anarchy420x on Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:10 am ([msg=69008]see Re: can of worms, i'd like to introduce you to can opener...[/msg])

I lean toward agreement with wallshadow. Slavery is 149 years past and should be left in the history books along with all the other atrocities mankind has inflicted upon itself. I could understand a little soreness about the civil rights movement taking as long as it did, but the simple fact that we neither have segregation or slavery (in it's direct form) should indicate how the general populous feels about the subject. There are a few individuals that find themselves in a situation where they let stereotypes misguide them into idiocy, but that does not account for everyone.

Meaning no disrespect, I believe that historical atrocities have been taken to such polar opposites that it is harmful to society. Is it not prejudice in its self to hold a vendetta toward those who have created no atrocities, but hold only an ancestral lineage as an anchor to said atrocities?

I do agree that there is no comparison from civil rights, women's rights, abolishment of slavery, or any other movement toward freedom, but that doesn't mean they can't be used as an anchor to help them obtain their own freedoms. Why suppress them over self pride?

A broken clock is right twice a day, however, I am neither up that early nor up that late...

I see where you're coming from and I can tell you honestly, you're being a little judgemental. Now before I start, I want you to note that I am not racist or hateful of any group or ethnicity. I base my opinions of people based on how I perceive them acting, and not by what history tells me.

Now first off, there are reasons that different people became hateful of one another, but those reasons are now very much old. For example, just because Napolean invaded Russia long long ago, its not a reason for Russians to hate the French today. Ages have past, people get over it, it's a new world.

mookalovesgloop wrote:it seems to me that they're trying to make light of history by blurring the lines and adding irrelevant issues to the FACTS...but maybe it's just me...thoughts?

The thing is, that in today's society, so many black people use the times of slavery as an excuse to be hateful and racist towards white people. By 'blurring the lines' and forgetting the past, you essentially level the playing field for everyone. If no one remembers the times of slavery, how are blacks supposed to get angry over it? Sure it's history and all, but it was painful back then, and I argue that it's no less painful today. We should really just get over it now.

mookalovesgloop wrote:a homosexual person has the option to discontinue their way of living or even just hide it from general knowledge and their problems are solved

That is not entirely true. If that person ever told his friends or family of it, then he is branded gay by them for his life. Sometimes these people might even post such facts on the internet, where it remains for eternity. Also, it is fairly common for gay people to distribute STD's (I forget the statistics, but a very LARGE percentage of HIV carriers are homosexual), which can harm them for ages.

mookalovesgloop wrote:i can't think of a single instance during the jim crow era when one of my coal-black forbears ever had the option to simply stop being a second class citizen by reason of his melanin levels...

Fredrick Douglas. but not because of melanin levels, but because of knowledge and wisdom.

mookalovesgloop wrote:by the same token, i've never heard of an afro sporting brown or black skinned person simply "hiding" their blackness from the public eye and being regarded as anything other than a you-know-what back then...

I can understand the jim crow era, but come on. Not everyone is hateful of everyone else in this era. I personally never hate anyone until I have gotten to know them well enough to hate them. Although there are white people that curse at black people for being black, always remember that there are also black people that curse at white people for being white.

I know that this is a very difficult part of ethics and has been so for centuries for ages, but it's not wise to poor salt into old wounds.

-WallShadow <3 <3 <3

so you're suggesting that i leave the past in the past and let bygones be....

i would agree with you if the so-called "level playing field" that you mentioned was actually the case...unfortunately just because the attitudes and overt discrimination that dominated the not-so-distant past are no longer fashionable doesn't mean that they no longer exist. i.e:

and i'm sure we both agree that these are only two of a MYRIAD of examples i could cite (don't get me started on the websites!), even in this day and age after we as a "nation" have made so much "progress" with regard to race relations...

of course the media outlets pretend that it's a shock and an outrage when these things are brought to the surface but the truth is that by and large the opinions of the western majority towards non-whites <<----note, non-white, not just blacks-- never changed!

i could make a long digression to further illustrate the illusion of equality and demonstrably prove that the current global structure is designed specifically to guarantee not only the separation of the various races, but also to keep the western elite minority in power but that isn't the point i was looking to discuss...

my point is that it's unfair to the people who risked brutalization, imprisonment, and humiliation for no reason other than the complexion they were born with to compare what they suffered and strove for to a group of people whose woes are the direct result of a lifestyle that they choose to live and frankly, is becoming more mainstream with each passing day (i mean have you SEEN so-called gangster-rappers lately??). during the time of [overt] segregation black people were scorned simply because we are the descendants of slaves. our crime was that of demanding to be treated like human beings...i've never heard of a single instance of a homosexual being thrown in jail for eating at a particular restaurant, sitting in the front of the bus, or seen them fire hosed and have dogs released on them at a pride rally...

i can't stand when the truth is used to perpetuate lies!peace and blessingsmooka

by weekend hacker on Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:41 am ([msg=69283]see Re: can of worms, i'd like to introduce you to can opener...[/msg])

I like WallShadow and anarchy420x comments. But people should never forget, but holding a grudge is just as bad.

of course the media outlets pretend that it's a shock and an outrage when these things are brought to the surface but the truth is that by and large the opinions of the western majority towards non-whites <<----note, non-white, not just blacks-- never changed!

I am not an american, and the country will always seem racist to me but even I don't think that is true.I even doubt that the crazies who are complaining about dem 'exicans taking their jawbz that you see on tv all the time are any kind of majority no mather the state. They look more like the loud minority.But I can be totally wrong about this.. its a far away place.

my point is that it's unfair to the people who risked brutalization, imprisonment, and humiliation for no reason other than the complexion they were born with to compare what they suffered and strove for to a group of people whose woes are the direct result of a lifestyle that they choose to live and frankly, is becoming more mainstream with each passing day

I suspect the problem lies with your interpretation that they choose to be gay that makes it so different. and that they could potentially hide it from strangers.Depending on their location they face some of the same problems, but are in luck its not a physical thing thats easy to detect. I don't think that is "unfair" or diminishes the fight for equal rights for black people in the US. If anything people involved in that struggle should be proud how they started equal rights for ALL instead of complaining that only they should be getting those equal rights or it is somehow unfair that gay people don't have to fight as hard.Is racism and homophobia the same? I think its a different flavor of the same kind of crazy.Thank god racism is now out of style and generally frowned upon, but yes you'll always have those kind of people, lets just make sure its a very small amount.Its my hope that racists will eventually breed themselves out of existence. (darwin tends to take care of special kinds of stupid) But violence on homosexuals is on the rise instead of going down like all this uneducated intolerance should be.

our crime was that of demanding to be treated like human beings...i've never heard of a single instance of a homosexual being thrown in jail for eating at a particular restaurant, sitting in the front of the bus, or seen them fire hosed and have dogs released on them at a pride rally...

The fact is that homosexuals do not have the same rights as heterosexual people. The most obvious example being the right to marry. While you might say that seems like a very small issue, the same was thought about the right to vote or prettymuch any right that was denied to select groups of people in the past.The right to get a job you're qualified for seems like another, you cannot be a gay teacher in a lot of places in the US. And the right to exist is another, there are politicians who want to ban all mention of homosexuality in classrooms up to a certain age(as high as they can get away with).

In a world wide sense there are plenty of countries where the execution or lynching of homosexuals is common. (this includes NEW laws made to make homosexuality punishable by death)While a country that'll discriminate a subsection of its people will generally face sanctions or potentially invasion by the international community, the same is not true if that group of people are gay.The behavior I find most appalling would be "corrective rape". People have always gone crazy and attacked and killed people they thought ware different(although totally wrong, you could atleast get into the mind of such crazy people), but the belief that lesbians just need some good ol raping to "correct" them is something I can not imagine.

And even pretend modern countries like Russia still have a lot of gay rights issues, even making their protests illegal with new laws forbidding the "promoting sodomy, lesbianism, bisexualism and transsexualism to minors" or just charging them with hooliganism(pussy riot)While neo-nazi rallies are totally okay.

So yeah.. gay rights rallies have been hosed, pepersprayed, and dogs released on them. They risk getting insulted, cast aside, their property destroyed and even beaten or killed for being gay.Luckily in the US its no longer an entire police force that sets out to beat homosexuals, but theres still plenty of lone cops who like to beat up gays.

So is their fight the same? Yes they fight for the same things(basic rights). The difference is that their fight will hopefully be easier and not result in a lot of deaths. But is that because its a different kind of hate or simply because times have changed and we know how to deal with discrimination?

Eather way, no mater what your race, sexual or political orientation. Everyone should have the same rights, all of them.

Now in a fail attempt to keep this HTS related, could you imagine what happened if Alan Turing didn't get convicted of "gross indecency" with another man, and wasn't forced to undergo chemical castration? Maybe he wouldn't have killed himself at age 41 and I can honestly say I think the computer world would have been better for it.

TL;DR; Same shit, different day. All rights for ALL the people, not just your special flavor.And being the first to demand those rights doesn't make them different.

PS:this is a can of worms I just love to keep open.

<Yoda> if someone says something i don't like, i ban him, ban whoever defends him, and then ban the witnesses...

by mookalovesgloop on Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:13 pm ([msg=69299]see Re: can of worms, i'd like to introduce you to can opener...[/msg])

peacefirst i'd like to say that i appreciate your well thought out and respectful response...i'm going to think about your points and respond in kind soon mooka

-- Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:55 pm --

okay, at long last....

while i can't honestly say that i agree with all of your points, i can't necessarily say that in my heart of hearts i feel that you're wrong about your perspective, especially considering your vantage point is "out of the box" in other words, you have the opportunity to witness firsthand what a homosexual person's experience is like outside of babylon (the usa). however there ARE two points which i directly find fault with...specifically

I suspect the problem lies with your interpretation that they choose to be gay that makes it so different. and that they could potentially hide it from strangers

let me say first and foremost that i know that my ideas are contrary to the mainstream, and that i won't make any friends by openly stating them, but frankly my 'fuck-it' level is off the charts...i don't care about popularity or coddling anybody's feelings, my concern is with pure, unadulterated truth....that being said...

simply, plainly--there is *NO* biological basis for homosexuality...there is no way for a gay couple to facilitate the continuity of the human race through normal biological means. and i'm sure it's no surprise to anyone that gay sex, especially between males is...well...hard on the body. there a host of diseases associated with homosexual sexual relations that just aren't found (with any notable recurrence) within the heterosexual community...i'm not talking about AIDS here, a google search using the term "diseases associated with homosexuality" will shed more light on what i'm talking about...

so considering that the main purpose of life (continuity of species, passing on understanding of proper gender-based role--believe it or not, we need these--through the family unit) cannot be accomplished via a homosexual union, which brings me to my (your?) next point.

The fact is that homosexuals do not have the same rights as heterosexual people. The most obvious example being the right to marry. While you might say that seems like a very small issue, the same was thought about the right to vote or prettymuch any right that was denied to select groups of people in the past.

while i absolutely agree that people have the right to live the way that they choose without having to be worried about violence, persecution, or even PROSECUTION, i don't agree that society should have to pretend that everyone's aberrant practices are indeed normal. there is a HUGE difference between say blacks being treated as second-class citizens during the jim crow era because of our melanin-levels and making marriage between gays unlawful especially in light of the point i enumerated before regarding there being no biological basis for homosexual sex...

consider the child born into a black family in rural mississippi in 1947 versus a child adopted by a gay family...indeed both children will be harassed, subject to ridicule and all sorts of problems throughout their lives, but the WHY is the determining factor...there can never be an argument posed as to whether blacks are doing something outside of the natural order of life or IMMORAL by being born black or being enslaved/colonized by an oppressor...a group of people who choose to live aberrant lifestyles, well, how upset can you be when you get what you sign up for....

unless of course, you mean to suggest that homosexuals DON'T have a say in whether they will be gay or not...as though it is some kind of disorder (though there is evidence which suggests this may indeed be the case, consider those who have overcome their homosexual desires through self-solicited psychological counseling)peace and blessingsmooka

by weekend hacker on Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:50 pm ([msg=69765]see Re: can of worms, i'd like to introduce you to can opener...[/msg])

mookalovesgloop wrote:simply, plainly--there is *NO* biological basis for homosexuality...there is no way for a gay couple to facilitate the continuity of the human race through normal biological means. and i'm sure it's no surprise to anyone that gay sex, especially between males is...well...hard on the body. there a host of diseases associated with homosexual sexual relations that just aren't found (with any notable recurrence) within the heterosexual community...i'm not talking about AIDS here, a google search using the term "diseases associated with homosexuality" will shed more light on what i'm talking about...

I'm gonna start with the diseases part, I found it hard to find unbiased results with that term on google.I seem to get a lot of propaganda websites, and if I wanted those I'd look for the flying spaghetti monster kind not the you are going to hell kind.(all hail our pasta overlord!)So lets try to use our head here instead of overly relying on references.

There are a lot of STDs in the world(not to mention the different strains of the same stuff).A lot of people use condoms not out of fear of an STD(she said she's a virgin, she can't have an std! <- lol) but to make sure you don't get anyone pregnant. Bacterial STD's can be cured, a virus or worse a baby is something you're stuck with for life.So assuming we're talking male on male sex here, and combining the unsanitary parts of sticking it in someone's ass(where we have so many germs) along with the lack of motivation to wear a condom then statistically we should be seeing more STD's in the gay community. Which is something that seems to correlate with reality. Same with 2 females.. somehow a lot of lesbians are under the assumption they can't get an STD, they're wrong. Now besides there being more STD's, most of these spread through contact.. to the place where you had contact... So yeah.. there are going to be some gay specific diseases, although the specific part would probably more be the location and symptoms not the actual bacteria or virus that caused it.So kids, be smart, always use a condom. And maybe also... be gentle.Also helps to not be a (man)slut tbh :\

Now on to the biology part, if you mean in the way of the age old question, what is the point of life?Then yes, I'd answer simply; The point of life is to create more life.Which is something that can't be achieved directly with human homosexuality.Unlike the lucky Whiptail lizard (and a lot more species, but that lizard does it A LOT and males are quite rare in the species) where the females can reproduce through parthenogenesis. Which is a fancy way of saying, they give birth after having lesbian sex.Homosexuality is very common in nature, although until some decades ago it was almost never documented. It seems a lot of scientists ware scared of "being ridiculed by their colleagues."There is a fine article about homosexuality in the animal world on wikipedia right here.

wikipedia wrote:No species has been found in which homosexual behaviour has not been shown to exist, with the exception of species that never have sex at all, such as sea urchins and aphis. Moreover, a part of the animal kingdom is hermaphroditic, truly bisexual. For them, homosexuality is not an issue.(20)

Back to humans..Although homosexual human couples can't make their own babies, they CAN adopt or use a surrogate mother or sperm donor. When looking at the purpose of life, this might lead some people to go into a nature/nurture debate.If you raise a kid is he going to be more like you then if you simply provided the genetic material?And isn't that kind of the point of creating life, to have it somehow be like you.. only better? Would you not love your stepchild the same as your other kids?I for one hope to one day create sentient life, and even if I succeed biologically I'll still also try to make the first lifeform that is totally artificial. (yes, my robots will one day be your overlords, or your children's overlord, or their children....)

I like to think that as humans we've evolved enough to the point that a lot of who we are is based on education/experiences/etc, not so much genetics(although its not to be ignored eather). We don't differ all that much from the first humans, but have had the good fortune of living in a time where we get to understand so much more of the world.So will homosexuals or creators of alternative life forms really have created life?I'd like to say yes. But I'm sure people will argue about this as it makes their creation of life(or lack there of) seem less special.But we can definitely say that gay couples with kids are doing their part to "facilitate the continuity of the human race"

Lets also not forget some other very important thing, love. It does crazy things to our head, totally messes up our brain chemistry and can make us feel awesomely good, or horribly bad.If you're in love, does any of the above really matter?

mookalovesgloop wrote:consider the child born into a black family in rural mississippi in 1947 versus a child adopted by a gay family...indeed both children will be harassed, subject to ridicule and all sorts of problems throughout their lives, but the WHY is the determining factor...there can never be an argument posed as to whether blacks are doing something outside of the natural order of life or IMMORAL by being born black or being enslaved/colonized by an oppressor...a group of people who choose to live aberrant lifestyles, well, how upset can you be when you get what you sign up for....

unless of course, you mean to suggest that homosexuals DON'T have a say in whether they will be gay or not...as though it is some kind of disorder (though there is evidence which suggests this may indeed be the case, consider those who have overcome their homosexual desires through self-solicited psychological counseling)

I wouldn't go seeing it as some kind of disorder. A disorder would imply there is something wrong with it, its an unnatural state or has some kind of cause. And as mentioned above, it happens in nature a lot.It all depends on what you are attracted to, not just what you want to be doing, so I would not say that homosexuality is a choice. Just as I wouldn't say that black kid in 1947 had a choice in where he was born.Although obviously there are exceptions with people acting gay to fit in with other gay people or wanting to be different, just as a gay guy could pretend to be straight to fit in with straight people.I'm sure everyone has met "that girl" that is "liek totaly lesbian" that is when she isn't fucking random guys. Pretend gay doesn't tend to last though, there's no point in lying to yourself, just as there's no point in pretending you're straight when you're not.As for those so called psychological counselling, they are usually organised by some sort of religious institute, its no more then an attempt at brainwashing. Almost all of the mainstream mental health organisations in the states have renounced this. I believe it is now(or in the procces of being) banned in California, at least for teens. These things seem almost as bad as some of those american prison camps for troubled youths. "Having trouble with your kid? Even though he has committed no crime? You can send your kid to prison today!" parents sending their kids to prison without laws being broken.. really nasty places with rapes and beatings.. :\ that shit is pretty bad but is for a totally different discussion.So as far as choice goes, the only choice is if you lie to yourself and to the world, or tell the truth.And in my opinion you should never have to lie to make some other people happy.

As for another biological connection to homosexuality I'll give only this last quote from wikipedia

Wikipedia wrote:Male Drosophila melanogaster flies bearing two copies of a mutant allele in the fruitless gene court and attempt to mate exclusively with other males.(18) The genetic basis of animal homosexuality has been studied in the fly Drosophila melanogaster.(84) Here, multiple genes have been identified that can cause homosexual courtship and mating.(85) These genes are thought to control behavior through pheromones as well as altering the structure of the animal's brains.(86)(87) These studies have also investigated the influence of environment on the likelihood of flies displaying homosexual behavior.(88)(89)

mookalovesgloop wrote:you have the opportunity to witness firsthand what a homosexual person's experience is like outside of babylon (the usa)

Did you just call an admin a faggot and get away with it? Well played.

A picture of lesbian bitches to end this:

<Yoda> if someone says something i don't like, i ban him, ban whoever defends him, and then ban the witnesses...

by mookalovesgloop on Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:40 pm ([msg=69779]see Re: can of worms, i'd like to introduce you to can opener...[/msg])

lmfao @ this!! oh, and no disrespect, btw

okay so, i think i may not have been clear when i said that there's no biological basis for homosexual sex...

of course i'm aware that there are instances in nature where the circumstances demand that accommodations be made so that life can go on. however i'm sure that we can both agree that humans, as a norm do NOT reproduce via parthenogenesis or any of the other methods that you enumerated...so i think that's comparing apples and oranges. furthermore sexual action and attraction between human partners is accompanied with emotional and social complexities that make a comparison of the two even more far-fetched.

even in countries like say india or china where the male to female ratio is grossly disproportionate, we don't see women sprouting penises and compensating for the inequality...considering that there ARE species even lower than ours in the scale of evolution that can do just that, i can't believe that's by accident or because of any deficiency in our species!

And isn't that...the point of creating life, to have it somehow be like you.. only better?

no! the idea that our children are "ours" is an egoistic one and an illusion...each person has their own purpose and destiny, their parents are simply the vehicles through which they are manifested in their physical form and our job is to care for and nurture our offspring so that they will successfully function to give back to the whole when they are adults...

So will homosexuals or creators of alternative life forms really have created life?

i can't lie...you lost me a little with the robots, but as to the first part of your question, emphatically NO! and that's exactly the point, the only way for a gay couple to do what humans are intended to do is to mimic the process using external/artificial means..in my opinion god doesn't have to come down and explain this one...if the only way that you can do what you're MADE to do is to use a test tube/third party...you juussssttt might wanna adjust your game plan...

a virus or worse a baby is something you're stuck with for life

wow, really? i swear i mean no offense, but this remark makes me question how your values are lined up....

Did you just call an admin a faggot and get away with it? Well played.

by nigelpurc on Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:29 am ([msg=69782]see Re: can of worms, i'd like to introduce you to can opener...[/msg])

I'd just like to point out that there are some biological bases for homosexuality. Homosexuality has been linked to at least one gene and it tends to run in families. Homosexual males have been shown to have lower testosterone levels than heterosexual males, I am assuming estrogen levels are lower in homosexual females. There are hormone treatments and corrections, but that isn't natural, that isn't being who you were born to be. I'm sure there are a plethora of other hormonal and physical imbalances that will be/are linked to being gay.

Also there are many psychological reasons for being gay, like rape victims may turn the other way and can you blame them?

But as far as continuing the circle of life thing, yeah that is the ultimate point to many people's lives. But in the end its who you are attracted to and what you want out of life and it's more natural for some to go the other way for various reasons.

Also I totally agree with you it is far more easy to hide being gay than black for obvious reasons. I am not going to get into who has or has had it worse in the past, because I just don't think it should be done. The two groups have been discriminated against in the past and are continuing to be discriminated against today and to quote Martin Luther King Jr "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."