Rick Warren is an Alien From Outer Space

This morning, President-Elect Barack Obama defended his decision to have Rick Warren deliver the invocation at the inauguration (video here):

It is important for America to come together even though we may have disagreements on certain social issues.

And I would note that a couple of years ago I was invited to Rick Warren’s church to speak, despite his awareness that I held views entirely contrary to his when it came to gay and lesbian rights, when it came to issues like abortion.

Nevertheless, I had an opportunity to speak, and that dialogue, I think, is a part of what my campaign’s been all about, that we’re not going to agree on every single issue. What we have to do is create an atmosphere where we can disagree without being disagreeable, and then focus on those things that we hold in common as Americans. So Rick Warren has been invited to speak, Dr. Joseph Lowery—who has deeply contrasting views to Rick Warren about a whole host of issues—is also speaking.

During the course of the entire inaugural festivities there are gonna be a wide range of view points that are presented and that’s how it should be because that’s what America is about. Part of the magic of this country is that we are diverse and noisy and opinionated and so that’s the spirit in which we have put together what I think will be a terrific inauguration.

Here’s what bugs me about O’s “logic”: He cites an admirable political goal—diversity—as the reason to prioritize someone who totally rejects that goal.

Including Warren isn’t tantamount to holding a world peace conference that includes adversaries like America and Iran (that’d be cool), it’s the equivalent of inviting the aliens from Independence Day , who are committed to destroying earth, to the same conference. They don’t believe in the overarching goal at hand, just like Warren doesn’t believe in the overarching goal of diversity.

Obama’s allowed to tap Warren to kowtow politically, but saying he’s doing it to support diversity doesn’t make much sense.

Meanwhile, Obama’s comparison between Warren inviting Obama to speak at Warren’s private Saddleback Church in California to Obama inviting Warren to speak at the inauguration of the next American President is insane.

If John McCain had been elected, and all of the pastors that he invited to participate in his inauguration happened to be opposed to same sex marriage (which probably would have been the case), I seriously doubt that people would be making this kind of ridiculous uproar over the situation.

Josh– No wonder you are unemployed. Did you read what one of our resident gay posters just posted on the other thread?

12. Blue John spews:

Maybe he’s not all bad.

Here’s the relevant passage from a just-released interview with Beliefnet and the Wall Street Journal:

Beliefnet: Do you support civil unions or domestic partnerships? Warren: I don’t know if I’d use the term there but I support full equal rights for everybody in America. I don’t believe we should have unequal rights depending on particular lifestyles so I fully support equal rights.

He chided religious conservatives for spending so much more time on gay marriage than divorce. Asked which was a bigger threat to the Ameerican family, divorce or gay marriage, he laughed and declared, “That’s a no brainer. Divorce. There’s no doubt about it.” The reason gay marriage gets more attention, he said, is, “we always love to talk about other sins more than ours.”

Josh you are a reckless pinhead. You read the DailyKos without doing your own research. You KLOWNS are Obama’s biggest headache. He duped you with all the CHANGE YOU CAN BELIEVE IN stuff you took to mean supporting 100% your Atheist Progressive agenda. WRONGO! Obama told you REPEATEDLY he is a Christian. Apparently you didn’t believe him. TEAM HORSESASS is Obama’s enemy…don’t you get it? He used you.

There isn’t going to be a mass undertaking to take money from the wealthy. There isn’t going to be a move away from Christian values. You KLOWNS will still be idiots under the Obama Administration…with no place in the mix. WHY?? Because you are a huge minority in your thinking and beliefs. You all congregate at a place like HA and stroke each other to FEEL good.

All I care about is sound CONSERVATIVE polices. It appears Obama is closer to me than most of you!! Kind of pisses you off, right? One of the many deficiencies you KLOWNS possess is the overwhelming desire to be PISSED OFF. You were PISSED OFF about Bush and now your PISSED OFF about Obama. I guess PISSED OFF goes hand-in-hand with that Atheist Belief system, huh?

Suddenly Obama is a Christian (not a Muslim or someone with a middle name of Hussein like you kept saying?).

Suddenly Obama is a moderate (not a socialist like you kept calling him?).

What a frickin’ hypocrite you are! Do you even remember all the crap you wrote about him?

Here is what I like about Obama’s picks:

EPA (Lisa Jackson) – Real environmental stewardship and stop the illegal influence and kowtowing to corporations. (Compare this to Stephen Johnson who lied to congress and reversed scientific decisions and was overuled on policy by the White House).

Energy (Steven Chu) – A REAL scientist (nobel prize winner) who can intelligently direct our energy policy and the national labs. Compare this to Bodman (basically a Treasury guy (albeit with an engineering degree) who has not done a darn thing).

Suddenly Obama is a Christian (not a Muslim or someone with a middle name of Hussein like you kept saying?).

I never questioned Obama’s Christianity…never. And BTW, Hussein IS his middle-name. He’s so proud of it, he is using it for his inauguration.

Why the over-sensitivity cnr?? Starting to come to grips with the likelihood Obama is not going to support the far-left Atheist Progressive Agenda?? It appears you were duped…although time will tell.

I’ve never been worried that Obama is going to hurt me or my family financially. We have excellent tax-planners who know how to prepare for the worst and hope for the best. I am concerned about the moves Obama makes in ferretting his way out of this recession. He could make it worse cnr.

Time will tell what Obama actually DOES. That’s all that really matters…policies and laws and their impact. The rest is YAAAWN to me.

Regarding his Cabinet Picks…again, I will reserve judgment until I see the ACTIONS. You KLOWNS sure put a lot of credence in bullshit talk.

The only pick thus far that I think will end up biting Obama in the ass is Eric Holder. He looks to much like Oprah’s boyfriend Steadman….however with a sleaze factor.

Face it, Obama has had a free ride from the MSM thus far. That is about to end courtesy of Blago.

this is just a precursor when Obama legalizes gay marriage. he’ll say “look, i gave your gay hating bigot preacher a chance to speak at my inaguaration, so now i am politically entitled to legalize gay marriage”

Former President Bill Clinton’s foundation has raised at least $46 million from Saudi Arabia and other foreign governments that his wife Hillary Rodham Clinton may end up negotiating with as the next secretary of state.

The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia gave $10 million to $25 million to the William J. Clinton Foundation, a nonprofit created by the former president to finance his library in Little Rock, Ark., and charitable efforts to reduce poverty and treat AIDS. Other foreign government givers include Norway, Kuwait, Qatar, Brunei, Oman, Italy and Jamaica. The Dutch national lottery gave $5 million to $10 million.

The Blackwater Training Center donated $10,001 to $25,000. The State Department — to be led by Hillary Clinton if she is confirmed — will have to decide next year whether to renew Blackwater Worldwide’s contract to protect U.S. diplomats in Iraq. Five Blackwater guards have been indicted by a U.S. grand jury on manslaughter and weapons charges stemming from a September 2007 firefight in Baghdad’s Nisoor Square in which 17 Iraqis died.

Finally, after a decade of prodding, Bill Clinton shows those Oil folks love him more than Bush!!!! Clinton had to release this with Hillary becoming SOS. How do you treat someone who gives you $25 MILLION for your “Foundation”??

Smart to release it a week before Christmas when folks are distracted.

I am not sure why President-elect Obama would see the need to throw a bone to the crazy cowards on the religious right. They’re about as important as tits on a boar. They’re irrelevant. The religious right is ineffective and wasn’t able to get any real traction during the election. We fucked almost all their candidates right in the ass. We beat them like a drum. They don’t matter. What they think or want doesn’t matter. There’s no need to try to mend fences with them. They lost. Fuck em. They can sit down and shut the fuck up. Half of them are gay themselves so who cares?

Oh yeah – one more thing. Why even have some religious idiot at the ceremony. Fuck religion and the idiots who need it. They’re all lying hypocrites who use religion to justify their sick twisted (rejected) ideas. Fuck em in the ass!

I am not sure why President-elect Obama would see the need to throw a bone to the crazy cowards on the religious right. They’re about as important as tits on a boar. They’re irrelevant. The religious right is ineffective and wasn’t able to get any real traction during the election. We fucked almost all their candidates right in the ass. We beat them like a drum. They don’t matter. What they think or want doesn’t matter. There’s no need to try to mend fences with them. They lost. Fuck em. They can sit down and shut the fuck up. Half of them are gay themselves so who cares?

12/18/2008 at 1:13 pm

32. WeBentOverTheGOP spews:

Oh yeah – one more thing. Why even have some religious idiot at the ceremony. Fuck religion and the idiots who need it. They’re all lying hypocrites who use religion to justify their sick twisted (rejected) ideas. Fuck em in the ass!

Thank you soooooo much for providing clarity for folks who wonder what the Fringe Lunatic Atheist Left is all about. Your anger & bitterness emit a stench that causes to be friendless, spouseless and USELESS!

If you want to see close ties to Saudi take a look at our current president and his poppa.

Our current VP had close business ties to just about every repressive regime out there before taking office.

You made the allegation, YOU back it up. Show me your proof? And proof ain’t some moonbat spewing at the Daily Kos. What I posted is PROOF of Clinton’s relationships with the Oil Elite. All you come back with is spewing words. Where’s the meat!

SPRINGFIELD, Ill. – A lawyer for Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich told state lawmakers Thursday that the federal wiretaps at the heart of the pay-to-play allegations against his client were illegally obtained, and therefore should be kept out of any impeachment proceedings. The wiretaps are crucial to the federal charges filed against Blagojevich last week. Prosecutors say they caught the Democratic governor discussing efforts to auction off Barack Obama’s U.S. Senate seat and pressure a hospital executive for campaign donations.

Genson told the impeachment committee that it shouldn’t consider any material from the wiretaps, saying the evidence was “illegally obtained.”

Earlier on MSNBC, Genson said the governor maintains his innocence: “He’s telling me that he’s not guilty, he’s telling me that he wants to fight.”

If Blago fights, this is gonna make the OJ Trial #1 look like Judge Judy’s Show. I’ll bet plenty of Chicago insiders are sweatin’ bullets. Bla-sonofabitch (D-Il.) is obviously on a self-destruct course…often people like this take others down with them.

Below is a list of contributors with Africa or Middle East interests who have donated significant amounts of funds to the William J. Clinton Foundation. Clinton’s wife, New York Sen. Hillary Clinton, will play a critical role in representing U.S. interests in the respective regions as President-elect Barack Obama’s nominee for secretary of state. Former President Clinton agreed to publicly release the donor lists prior to her confirmation to assuage concerns of conflicts of interest. (For a full WSJ list of major donors, click HERE.)

Donors who have contributed between $10 million–$25 million:

Kingdom of Saudi Arabia: The royal family wants to remain a loyal U.S. ally, and keep their image clean. The Saudis give to every former president’s library or foundation, so this is a regular part of doing business for them.

Two years ago Rick Warren took intense heat from his own religious right for inviting Barack Obama to speak at the AIDS conference his chuch sponsors. (Because Obama is pro-choice).

Rick Warren is pro-life, but invited Obama anyway because of their common interest in the fight against AIDS. Here is what Warren said at the time:

“Sometimes that means working with people you disagree with. With AIDS killing 8,000 people a day, saving lives is more important to us than political alignment.”

“Our goal has been to put people together who normally won’t even speak to each other. We do not expect all participants in the Summit discussion to agree with all of our Evangelical beliefs. However, the HIV/AIDS pandemic cannot be fought by Evangelicals alone. It will take the cooperation of all – government, business, NGOs and the church.”

Obama said he is going to reach across the political boundaries. This is what he was talking about.

“For me, I couldn’t ever keep quiet. I came from a situation where for a very long time people were discriminated against, made to suffer for something about which they could do nothing–their ethnicity. We were made to suffer because we were not white. Then, for a very long time in our church, we didn’t ordain women, and we were penalizing a huge section of humanity for something about which they could do nothing–their gender. And I’m glad that now the church has changed all that. I’m glad that apartheid has ended. I could not for any part of me be able to keep quiet, because people were being penalized, ostracized, treated as if they were less than human, because of something they could do nothing to change–their sexual orientation. For me, I can’t imagine the Lord that I worship, this Jesus Christ, actually concurring with the persecution of a minority that is already being persecuted. The Jesus who I worship is a Jesus who was forever on the side of those who were being clobbered, and he got into trouble precisely because of that. Our church, the Anglican Church, is experiencing a very, very serious crisis. It is all to do with human sexuality. I think God is weeping. He is weeping that we should be spending so much energy, time, resources on this subject at a time when the world is aching.” Desmond Tutu in July Issue of Vanity Fair…

He mentioned the inclusion in the church. Show me the URL Rudy so I won’t call BULLSHITTIUM on your post above…

You have to go all the way to South Africa to get a member of the reverend clergy to offer the invocation for P-E Obama’s inaguration?

Having the damn thing catered out of Sri Lanka as well?

You have lost the point…this is the inaguration of an AMERICAN president – those who participate or officiate should be AMERICANS. Rick Warren is an AMERICAN, and Obama likes him. Tutu is a foreigner, hence not qualified.

It’s Obama’s inaguration, not yours. He doesn’t owe you a bucket of warm sweat let alone a veto over the choice of the clergyman to participate.

Not a single piece of legislation will be voted on or signed during the inauguration… it is a ceremony, it’s “just words”… this is more a consequence of Rev. Wright than anything else, as on this front, giving this duty to Warren can repair a lot of damage he received in the fallout of his pastor issue.

slingshot– I don’t stroke KLOWNS like you…yuck! Seems like the Atheist Progressive movement has hit a wall here. ALL the energy spent building & defending Obama…and it turns out he’s a Christian (which many of you despise for that reason alone).

I can feel your pain & consternation. You will always be 14%ers. Sitting on the sideline…bitching about something. Envious of successful people. Wanting something for nothing. Pitiful.

I wish I knew someone who agreed with me on every issue. It would be nice to know that at least one other person on the planet was totally correct about everything. On the other hand, I doubt I would spend much time with that person. Boredom, I presume, would become a concern rather quickly. I think this issue about Rev. Warren has become overheated, overplayed, and overdone.

Do you remember the 1974 Senate race in New Hampshire? Republican Louis Wyman beat Democrat John Durkin by 355 votes. So what happened? Durkin demanded a recount. Fine. New Hampshire’s Ballot Law Commission concluded that Wyman had indeed won by (at least) two votes. Look up what the Donkey led senate did next.

Do you remember the 1984 Eighth District voting fiasco in Indiana? Puddy remembers this too…

Donkey incumbent Frank McCloskey had the initial victory by 72 votes. But one county made a vote correction. Now the Republican opponent, Richard McIntyre, led. So the Donkey called for a recount. This time McIntyre won by over 400 votes. What did the Donkey led Congress Tip O’Neill and Leon Panetta do? Gave it to McCloskey.

Michelle Duggar gave birth to her 18th child today, according to news reports. Her husband, Jim Bob, is a former GOP legislator in Arkansas who makes his living as a real estate agent and commercial property owner. (Gee, does that remind you of any other former GOP legislators?) Jim Bob is 43 years old and the Duggars have been married 24 years.

According to my Roger Rabbit Calculator, if each of their descendents produces 18 kids, the Duggars someday will have 11 billion great-great-grandchildren.

K – How was it stolen when AlGore tried to suppress the military vote in Florida? What about Seminole and Martin Counties? What about AlGore admitting his mistake by only asking for four counties recount? What about the Dec 12th date mandated by law?

Hey Puddy– Good catch on Holder. Doubt Goldy is going to question Holder’s “oversight”………. From the Chicago Sun-Times:

BY CHRIS FUSCO Staff Reporter/cfusco@suntimes.com

Before Eric Holder was President-elect Barack Obama’s choice to be attorney general, he was Gov. Blagojevich’s pick to sort out a mess involving Illinois’ long-dormant casino license.

Blagojevich and Holder appeared together at a March 24, 2004, news conference to announce Holder’s role as “special investigator to the Illinois Gaming Board” — a post that was to pay Holder and his Washington, D.C. law firm up to $300,000.

Holder, however, omitted that event from his 47-page response to a Senate Judiciary Committee questionnaire made public this week

I am one happy Fucking Klown that McCain-Palin is not being sworn in come January. And I’d like to to see all Presidents publicly disclose contributions to their foundations, like Clinton did, hell did Palin ever even disclose her medical records, she probably had a penis instead of a vagina.

Looks good to me…except she is counting on Obama giving her $1 BILLION. Nice shell-game. Anyway, I don’t see any cuts in Gregoire’s Governor’s Office Budget. She has something like 41 employees over $100k in SALARY (TOTAL COMPENSATION over $140K0. Gary Locke only had 7.

Think folks should take a hard look at her Governor’s Office Budget. Appears Gregoire would steal food from the mouths of poor, hate our kids etc. before cutting some in-crowd Bureaucrats.

Want do you want? A President who governs or one who postures? Did you enjoy Bush? Would an ineffective lefty be any better?

In their dialogue before, Warren and Obama talked about achievable common goals … reducing teen pregnancies, redistributing wealth in a more fair way, aggressive efforts to deal with AIDS, … what is all this, Spam?

As for the outrage over Warren’s stand, give the man an ear. He has supported full. legal rights for ALL committed couples. Errr ahhh, is that a bad thing?

Personally, I think the gay marriage activists are not very different than the extreme opponents. Why the big deal by the gay community? Do gay people really think there is no difference between the genders? Does it make sense not to recognize heterosexual pairing? If we were to change the definition, we would still need a term that recognizes male:female pairing.

Frankly, I find the gay marriage advocates hypocritical when they diss polygamy. In my culture, Sephardic Judaism, polygamy is allowed .. though rare for thge last two millenia. Do you have some preh=judice against Muslims and Jews who want plural marriages?

Maybe a clue to the real motivations of the gay activists comes from Warren’s comparison of homosexual marriage to marriage between a parent and a child. Obviously Warren meant to be offensive and judgmental. Frankly, I see no reason .. assuming there is no procreation .. to ban ANY form of pairing as long as it does not involve abuse. It should suffice for Warren to show respect for heterosexuals, nuns, polygamists, etc. Does he condone nunneries?

It seems to me that the simplest answer is to adopt a national commitment law that sets whatever criteria the people want that allows folks to be married, paired, of live in a nunnery.

It’s really quite fun listening to the idiot republicans complain about our Democratic Governor. If she’s so bad, how come your boy Rossi got beat like a drum assholes? We bent him over and we fucked him in the ass. Too bad nobody cares what you idiots think. You’ve been cancelled. You’ve been ruled irrelevant. You’ve been declared losers, fools, cowards, crooks, cooks and assholes. Democrats rule. You get to sit down and suck dick when told to do so.

well, the love you leftys are showing wagner, is kind of like the sadness i feel for all those jews in palm beach who lost millions with madoff and now have to pawn off their goods. oh im so sorry.

I saw that story on CNBC last night…one hour special. Seems like everyone they interviewed as being ripped off were Jewish. They said over 1/3 of W. Palm Beach Country Club (almost exclusively Jewish) lost money with Madoff.

Folks were so greedy and enthralled with Madoff’s returns, they never questioned HOW when the Stock Market was plummeting Madoff still got them 1%/month.

They deserve what they got…a good screwing. Especially KLOWNS like Spielberg!

I’m not exactly Pastor Warren’s biggest fan, but I’m not following your argument.

You’re complaining that what Pastor Warren said is not honest. That’s the part that I don’t follow.

Had he claimed to be in favor of gay marriage, then supported Prop 8, that would be dishonest.

If he were found to be one of the (many) right wing preachers that preached “family values” while cheating on his wife, that would be dishonest.

What folks are upset about are his honestly held and expressed views on abortion and homosexuality. That’s a reasonable objection. I find some of his views objectionable, and understand the problems that many have with some of his positions on issues such as gay marriage.

I must say that I’m glad that you were lying when you said that you wouldn’t be back here. Your brand of bigotry needs to be seen on a regular basis, just so that we don’t get the idea that folks like you no longer exist.

We tend to point to any right winger that annoys us and call him or her a “Nazi”. Most of the time that really is an unfair label. Conservatives may have a different world view, and a different perspective on issues from us, but many of them are reasonable folks that we can work with on many issues.

We need folks like you to remind us that there are still real Nazis still out there. Thank you for that service.

I see a couple of the trolls are thrilled that victims were “almost exclusively Jewish” and they say that these Jews “deserve what they got”. Nice thoughts, trolls, thinking that someone is deserving misfortune simply because they’re Jewish. Of course, whether his friends spew racism or bigotry, the cowardly Pudz says nothing.

Hey Steve, give it a rest. I’ve said when blacks follow Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton and nothing happens, they get what they voted for. When I said blacks vote for Donk and the inner cities continue to crumble they get what they voted for. When I said the HA faithful voted for Greg I Ain’t Got 2 Nickels or Ron Max Tax Sims I said they get what they voted for. In this case they voted Madoff returns with their pocketbook. It’s the truth.

BTW you KLOWN, where was Mary Schapiro (FINRA Head) when this was happening?

Madoff screwed his own. He screwed big money Donkey. And just think, those lost funds won’t finance Donkey candidacies.

Many of the victims are Jewish. But not all That’s a fact. A Jew victimizing Jews is noteworthy. It was devastating. However, people who blindly invested for much higher than market returns did deserve what they got..no matter there faith or non-faith.

Steve, you really love to twist stuff. Helps you look more & more like the moron you are. Are you Jewish steve?? Why sooooooo offended??

Being Perpetually Offended as you are has a half-life…like the little boy who cried wolf.

As I was saying on the other thread, Pudz, I hope none of you Republican friends mistakenly took a shot at you while you were down at Katrina telling everybody how much HA sucks. They were so thrilled that they “finally” able to “hunt” people like you. So what’s your excuse for them. Or are you just going to continue with this denial bullshit. That one guy is sure proud of the bloody shirt he took from one of his black victims as a trophy. How’s that make you feel, Pudz?

A full fledged reaction to your inbred stupidity. You’ve proven time and again you can’t think on this blog without the Daily visit to Kos, Morons, etc.. And… you told the world your wife is a proud card carrying SEIU member. We know who wears the pants in this relationship. So go back and hold onto your wife’s bathrobe.

Men are in discussion and you and Steve are little boys playing in your “perverted” sandbox looking at your favorite URLs.

Ever notice only you and Steve bring up those strange web sites? If it was so wonderful why hasn’t Goldy created a thread?

Well I can see it now. To make your day Goldy will create one. Well mark my words if he does.

Jesus says in Matthew 10:32,33: “Whosoever therefore shall confess Me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.”

Speaking of Matthew, why do you ignore Matthew 7:1? Is that one just a little too inconvenient for a hate-spewing, judgemental, wing-nut religious freak such as yourself? I’ll tell you what’s going on. You cherry-pick the Bible, searching for passages that justify your hate. You ignore the rest.

Pudz considers a website that documents the strange perversions of Republicans to be, um, “strange”. You’re really something, Pudz. Maybe you should read your Bible some more. It would seem that you’ve skipped a few parts that pertain directly to you.

114 – SEIU had nothing to do with what we were arguing. I’m not even a member of SEIU. “Corner”? WTF is that? And that was the least of it. You were making up shit left and right, putting words into my mouth.

You’ve done that before when you’re cornered, when you have no argument, when you’ve gone off half-cocked into name-calling land.

You can quote the Bible chapter and verse all you want, Puds. Don’t care much here. All I want is an outtake video on YouTube of Rick Warren saying “Heeeeere’s your sign.”

I disavowed Christianity after my family & I got kicked out of a Nazarene church in Port Angeles for the crime of being (I shit you not) ‘agents of Satan’ because I knew the pastor from the Outside World (I was his son’s u10 soccer coach and he’d invited me to join one day at practice – and I did). And after he announced that he wouldn’t be in his office at the church 24/7 sitting by the phone to tend to the flock because he was opening a Mail Boxes Etc. (as wonderful a calling as it is, preachin’ don’t pay the bills very well – unless you have a megachurch), the church’s elders fired him that day and accused my wife and I of ‘seducing and leading their poor pastor astray’. That may sound silly to you, but it’s the dead-serious truth. I’ve never looked back, and my wife is now a neopagan and I check the ‘none of the above’ box, and we’re happier for it.

I’ll never disrespect anyone for their faith, unless they believe that it gives them the right to abuse, attack, or kill others due to their beliefs, and the differences therein. I choose not to believe in any faith because the lust for power, fame, and wealth can cause anyone to corrupt faith to serve their own ends.

I think I can sum my feelings up best with a little bumper-sticker wisdom:

I think Pastor Warren is wrong when he says that pastors speaking out against homosexuality could be prosecuted for hate speech.

But I also know that there are calls for just such prosecution, and not just from the outermost fringes of the left, even under current laws.

While Pastor Warren has said things that are, in my opinion, divisive and harmful, he has also taken heat from Conservatives for his support of domestic partnership laws, AIDS awareness, and his position that, while he still sees homosexuality as a sin, there are others that are at least as important.

He actually equates it with divorce.

Many folks are attacking the label “Christian Conservative” and the sound bites that end up on the evening news. Yes, I think that his views on homosexuality are wrong, and again, some of his statements have been (at best) poorly thought out.

Newsies and bloggers never want to talk to him about anything other than homosexuality and abortion, because in those areas, his views tend to enflame and polarize folks, and that sells papers and draws viewers.

In this kind of situation, his supporters will say “read and listen to what he actually said”. Not just the sound bites, but the entire opinion.

I did just that, and while I still disagree with him on many issues, I find that he is not nearly as far to the right as many on the left would paint him.

While he has not, to my knowledge, specifically said so, I get the distinct impression that he sees the gay marriage issue much as I do. Government should just get out of the marriage business and leave that to churches. Let government issue “domestic union” contracts that follow a set of acceptable guidelines to any adult couple that wants one.

After all, once folks are adults, I’m not sure where it is the government’s business what they do in the privacy of their homes.

there’s a difference between being a bigot and just seeing with your own eyes. in the first place, since those of you on the left either do not believe in god, or believe religion has no place in the public square, you really dont have any platform to denounce bigotry. its a sin against who? if you dont believe in god then there is only one law, might is right. if there is no god, what is wrong with slavery? because you should respect others? why? if there is no god we are just descendants of ameobas, going back to atoms when our time is through. if there is no god we are just a smarter version of animals, killing for our food. however, apparently you think its bigotry to suggest that madoff got away with what he did because he had jewish friends in places of power that chose to look the other way. but when sarah palins church was burned down you had about 2 min of it on the msms, no mention of bigotry of her religion. see, thats why you need to own the media.

Jesus says in Matthew 10:32,33: “Whosoever therefore shall confess Me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.”

Sorry Puddy, but “his” own words are incriminating … If these are the words of Jesus, then he is exhibiting sin:

Isn’t this EXACTLY what St Augustihne calls the sin of vainglory?

For that matter, this is also a clear statement of polytheism .. ana anathema to Jews of his time and a legal basis for stoning to death, if he really said such a thing.

you really dont have any platform to denounce bigotry. its a sin against who?

bigotry is a sin against your fellow humans.

if you dont believe in god then there is only one law, might is right.

Hunh? I assume you mean your god? Or did the Romans,the Sammish, the Buddhists, the Hindus only have “might is right as law?” And exactly what law has governed the Vatican, England, etc for their millennia?

if there is no god, what is wrong with slavery? because you should respect others? why?

Boobelah, slavery was overturned by Deists, not be believers. No revelation preaches against slavery.

if there is no god we are just a smarter version of animals, killing for our food.

Not all animals kill. In fact our species one of the few that wars on its own. Is that your god’s idea?

however, apparently you think its bigotry to suggest that madoff got away with what he did because he had jewish friends in places of power that chose to look the other way.

At least I do not think this id bigotry any more than I think Ollie North and Scooter Libby committed treason because of their religions. On the other hand, GWB’s simplistic faith is a major issue.

but when sarah palins church was burned down you had about 2 min of it on the msms, no mention of bigotry of her religion. see, thats why you need to own the media.

You are really dumb enough to think we Jews own the media? Faux? NBC? The Seattle Times? KIRO?

While I agree that the person(s) who burned down this church are vermin, to me they belong imore in the class of people who tore down political signs and trashed headquarters than to the community of bigots. When a church’s beliefs hurt others, then tolerance must have a limit. The KKK, Shas, Muslim Brotherhood, Aryan Brotherhood, Hama, Inquisition, Pastor Hague, … all of these claim the right, by belief, to oppress others.

Is it bigotry when I, a Jew, reject your right to denigrate the Pharisees or take offence at your blasphemous misuse of an epthet as the anme of God?

How are Jesus’ words incriminating? Only to a non-believer. You see I believe in vain if there is no Jesus and He isn’t the Son of God. I will someday die, ashes to ashes, dust to dust and return to clay. But, if there was a prophet named Jesus and He is the Son of God, the non-believers will cry out for the rocks to bury them upon His glorious return. I choose to believe in Jesus Christ my risen Saviour. This what I, Cynical, John Barelli, Proud Leftist, and rhp6033 all believe. Well, I know John Barelli believes it. I may be mistaken on Proud and rhp6033.

Exactly the point. Unless Jesus is a God, his behavior was sinful. Even if he was a God, his behavior violated Roman and Jewish laws.

Since you are a Christian, you do not question your gods. BUT, for the rest of us, he is a lousy example of how humans should behave.

Worse, centuries of persecution and, BTW slavery, have followed based on the idea that those who did not accept Jeus as a God had less than full human rights.

Finally, while I know you are a very good person, personally it bothers me to see good people putting faith in a Deity capable of malevolence attributed to Jesus. he may be a God, but he is not a good God. Your own words show this:

But, if there was a the non-believers will cry out for the rocks to bury them upon His glorious return. prophet named Jesus and He is the Son of God,

Does that include me? Does it include Gandhi? the Buddha? the 6 million Jews? The three million gypsies? the children in Ruwanda?

Can’t you see why such a belief is distressing to someone like myself? If I am trying to lead a good life, how could I turn to such a God?

We already had that Pharisee discussion, remember? I know where you stand on that word. Why did you bring it up?

Look at the context here and in this season. As a historian I know who the pharisees really were. As a Jew I am very proud of their non-violent resistance to the Romans. As a human I ma proud of the legacy they left to all men .. the sermon on the mount.

Yet, because Christians accept a Roman State Authorized Version … the “new testament,” I live in a culture where the school led by Hillel, my son’s namesake, is an epithet!

How is the term “pharisee,” as used by your bible any better than the word “nigger” or the word “honky?” To me it is even worse because it makes something we should all be proud of a profanity! As a non blacki, I avoid the term “nigger” and even “schwartze” because I have no desire to offend. Yet, you offend my people every time you read your bible. Something is wrong here.

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