I agree with Alucard. Pre-flop was the time to get all of the money in the middle. Often you're up against a smaller pair (especially QQ, JJ, TT) or AK/AQ, all of which you basically crush w/ KK. BB gave you the chance pre-flop. If he's playing a smaller pair then an Ace or a King or worse both on the flop is likely to shut him down completely. Since he's in the big blind, he could also be defending with a much weaker hand, in which case he'll shut down pre-flop or post flop to a big re-raise UNLESS he hits a lucky flop and beats you. You don't want your premium KK hand to be beat by Ace-trash (that you could have bet out of the hand pre-flop) on an Ace-hi flop.

As played, the c-bet likely means that villain hasn't improved to a set, but may now have a flush draw. If he did hit a low set (fives, twos or eights), you're in the kind of trouble that you could have avoided by betting him out of the hand pre-flop. But, he's likely not going to c-bet pot out of position, if he has a set. If he was only playing AK or AQ (not clubs) then there's a good chance he'll now shut down to any raises from you. The c-bet may be his last stab at the pot.

The point is - why open the hand up to indecision, when it was so easy to finalize all of the decision-making pre-flop?

#5

December 18th, 2017, 7:16 PM

Jacki Burkhart

Poker at: ACR

Game: NLHE, Razz

Posts: 2,808

I would raise pre to 0.06 or 0.07 (and live to 5x)I would also 4bet GII pre. Sometimes flatting with KK in position can be ok to mix it up but not in a pot that threatens to go multiway.

As played the flop is beautiful for us to GII. It’s highly likely BB raised JJ+ and will stack off here. Just jam it in. The standard line with pocket pairs 22-99 or TT would be to flat and set mine as the BB here.

#6

December 19th, 2017, 2:45 PM

mikeisthebestever

Online Poker at: ACR

Posts: 121

I agree with above, raise sizing too small pre, and mandatory 4b for value AND to get the pot heads up.

#7

December 19th, 2017, 3:00 PM

c9h13no3

Posts: 8,791

4-bet depends on players. If BB is a nit, and the others are huge fish, then calling is fine.

Unfortunately I forgot to use the "visualization" option to check this hand again, I only have the text history, but I remember very well I've noted this player as fish and his flop bet was turbo-insta.

Well, my thought:

I open from UTG+1, get two callers and villain fires a 5.5x.....3-bet from the BB vs three players who have position on him (and one of them (me) opened from UTG+1). I insta put him on AA, KK.

On the flop he insta fires the c-bet. This is the thing that forced me to take my decision to pitch the KK's. The third player called.

I didn't proceed to the next hand, in order to see the action in this hand. The turn brings a 3 of spades, it goes bet-allin from villain and call from the other player. The river brings a Q of spades. Villain shows pocket Aces and wins the pot, the other player shows A5 of hearts.