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cant stand this disc....but not a boss fan either. seems one dimensional. fast...drop out of the sky like a left hooking rock.im not getting the understable thing. recovers from a anhyzer in a quick and runs left. dunno...

Have you tried lighter ones? If you have and still get the results you described, I would suggest more practice. They are both great discs in my opinion. I've had 3 aces with my first Boss and hit a 350' basket with the Groove on 4th toss. Both around 173-175G.

I have been throwing the Groove since it came out and I found that when it was brand new it was very overstable for me. Now that I have thrown it for a few weeks and hit several trees along the way this thing will flip up nicely and fly a long way. If it seems too overstable right now give it time to get seasoned a little. It worked for me and now I'm loving it. I'm throwing a 166 and a 167 first run champion.

The groove just isn't for people who can't crank a disc at a 13 speed, unless you have a good headwind, which makes the disc feel like it is moving faster. I found that it can be a good disc off of a hill. That way it has plenty of time to come out of its turn, flatten and come back.
If you don't have a hill shot you have to throw it hard, fast, and high, anticipating it to lose altitude in the -2 turn phase. Good luck.

I've gotta say that the ratings for Innova are all messed up. There is no way this thing flies like a Valk and yet has the same rating. It takes more power to control than a valk. So I think the rating is deceptive. It may be a tad more accessible than the boss, BUT I still wouldn't recommend the disc to anyone that can't throw their current "slower" discs over 350 ft. For them a sidewinder or valk would be a much better choice for that hyzer flip shot with probably longer, but certainly more consistent results.

I just got one, and though I haven't really found the feel of the disc yet, every time I throw it it looks like a disc does at the end of it's flight. I just don't think I quite have the arm or the snap for it yet.

I have a first run that is normally a stable pig, i don't have a big arm and I only use it in the wind or for big hyzer. Still not sure if it will stay in the bag. I also have a star groove which I like much better, not as stable.

After a few weeks of hating it, its almost all I throw now. The heavier weights are more overstable than the lighter weights. When I throw a 165 fast, I throw it just like a Wraith and it goes dead straight with a slight fade at the end. I can flip it if I try, but with a heavier weight (+171) I have a tougher time turning it over. At slower speeds, if you turn it over, it really swoops in wide S.

Funny, but my 167 Groove (peach/clear colored) is MORE overstable than my 174g (blue) by quite a bit. I know the weight plays into it, but really it's hard to make the weight comparison because all these new mega wide rimmed drivers are REALLY inconsistent from run to run. It's really frustrating. I think anything beyond my teerex-x and surge is more of a novelty driver for me. Yes they go far, but I want my tools to be the same. I don't want to have to relearn a disc if I loose one.

I thought the ratings were unreliable too, but then I learned that the key to the ratings is throwing at the speed that the disc indicates. The Glide, turn, and fade ratings are only accurate if the disc is thrown at the right speed. When the disc is thrown faster than the ratings recommend it turns more (is less stable) and if you don't throw it as fast as it recommends then it fades more (is more overstable).
So... when the groove is thrown really fast or into a headwind it actually does what the ratings say, but like you said; it won't fly like a valk if you don't throw it fast enough.

This sheds some good light John...did you find that info on the innova site? Either way, thanks for posting. NOW they need to have a way of making the speeds more concrete and tangible. They should have the speeds relate to an actual distance with that disc, but I guess that's hard too, because of different angles giving different results. Okay, maybe I'll have some grace for the manufacturers because this is all very tricky!