So... mark my words: we'll live to see another GenCon without any part of reward from this KS campaign and retailers will get it before backers in same terms of Rail Raiders Infinite. No matter for me receive before or after retailers, but what the point to keep support to a company where even the price deal do not justify stick with them? Is easy to find promotional prices lower than SPM store or KS prices and take only a month to receive instead of years..

Maybe for you it is easy. Here in Finland it is harder to get hold on SPM stuff and the price WON'T be cheaper than the KS price... For me, kickstarter is easy and (slightly) cheaper way to get this stuff.

Maybe we get it before the stores or maybe we won't... All I care is that I will eventually get what I paid for.

_________________This is supposed to be a happy occasion, so let's not bicker and argue about who killed who.

Maybe for you it is easy. Here in Finland it is harder to get hold on SPM stuff and the price WON'T be cheaper than the KS price... For me, kickstarter is easy and (slightly) cheaper way to get this stuff.

Maybe we get it before the stores or maybe we won't... All I care is that I will eventually get what I paid for.

As a fellow Scandinavian I certainly understand you point of view, but really... the fact that SDE is basically unavailable in Europe is another problem in itself.Also I think Nephastus' point of view is very valid. If his speculation comes true it really does undermine the whole concept of supporting a KS.

This is the same situation* on Latin America, at least into Brazil for sure. Every piece I acquired of Super Dungeon by retail market or kickstarter costed me in custom taxes 60% over the product value + shipment costs and the fees of post office. Far away to be easy or cheap for me.

In rare times I received some packages without taxes, but at very lucky days.

(*) Just because not looks a potential profitable product and more restrict to a small niche audience other companies don't show interest to represent it on their countries. May not seem like it, but a critique of game reviewers matters a lot in other companies' decision-making. Good reputation matters for a company to survive the market.

I first learned about Super Dungeon Explore playing it on Tabletop Simulator and loved it, very much wanted to add the physical version of it to my collection. Alas...it looks like one of those situations where you're kinda hosed as you'll never catch up to the content if you weren't around for it since day 1. >< (so yeah, my only criticism of this game is it feels very inaccessible to newcomers)

Anyway, two questions.Will Super Dungeon Legends be a good starting point for getting into the game or are you still kneecapped if you haven't been already collecting the game for years?Is there any projected release date for it? (Sorry if this is a dumb question but I really tried to find one)

This is the same situation* on Latin America, at least into Brazil for sure. Every piece I acquired of Super Dungeon by retail market or kickstarter costed me in custom taxes 60% over the product value + shipment costs and the fees of post office. Far away to be easy or cheap for me.

In rare times I received some packages without taxes, but at very lucky days.

(*) Just because not looks a potential profitable product and more restrict to a small niche audience other companies don't show interest to represent it on their countries. May not seem like it, but a critique of game reviewers matters a lot in other companies' decision-making. Good reputation matters for a company to survive the market.

That actually explains a lot... I've been wondering why you're still on board, since you seem to recognize a lot of the legitimate concerns more than most. With it being so difficult to acquire in your region, it makes a lot of sense. Here stateside, I've been on the fence for quite some time, but I'm really trying to ride this one out in good faith that they'll really produce the thing at some point.

January 12th, 2018, 9:18 pm

ManicMan

Denizen

Joined: November 3rd, 2016, 9:02 amPosts: 363Location: South East England

I first learned about Super Dungeon Explore playing it on Tabletop Simulator and loved it, very much wanted to add the physical version of it to my collection. Alas...it looks like one of those situations where you're kinda hosed as you'll never catch up to the content if you weren't around for it since day 1. >< (so yeah, my only criticism of this game is it feels very inaccessible to newcomers)

Anyway, two questions.Will Super Dungeon Legends be a good starting point for getting into the game or are you still kneecapped if you haven't been already collecting the game for years?Is there any projected release date for it? (Sorry if this is a dumb question but I really tried to find one)

delete your first post if you can, should be able to..

anyway.. welcome.. I don't know any game where you HAVE to get all the upgrades and updates. that are optional extras. Buy a base set, as you enjoy and get money, you can buy the upgrades like new warbands etc. I personally can't see how this makes any game inaccessible so maybe i need a pm with you or something to help me understand that point of view (there are still a bunch of SDE updates i don't have, including the early-early metal releases.. but i'm not an idiot to want to pay SOO much just for the sake that some of my painted figures are metal and not plastic.

anyway.. Legends.. I wouldn't put it as a good startring point. a good starting point is the Core boxset. V2 of which is currently Estimated for later this year, a rough guess for retail if things go to SP & ND's plans would be end of year. You can find and get a copy of Forgotten King Core set, and download the Working Protos for the latest rule book and be pretty happy there if you are one of theses that need to play only the latest versions of a game. Forgotten King is already out. It is also possible to track down the Original Base set, but you will then need the Card upgrade pack if you wish to play V2Temp or V2-Final,

I first learned about Super Dungeon Explore playing it on Tabletop Simulator and loved it, very much wanted to add the physical version of it to my collection. Alas...it looks like one of those situations where you're kinda hosed as you'll never catch up to the content if you weren't around for it since day 1. >< (so yeah, my only criticism of this game is it feels very inaccessible to newcomers)

Anyway, two questions.Will Super Dungeon Legends be a good starting point for getting into the game or are you still kneecapped if you haven't been already collecting the game for years?Is there any projected release date for it? (Sorry if this is a dumb question but I really tried to find one)

I wouldn't call legends a good or ad place to start, necessarily. It's a different place to start. Legends is a light tabletop RPG, with it's own ruleset based around the same components other rulesets incorporate. It is probably easiest to use other minis for things in legends, since heroes are customizable and not necessarily tied to a specific mini. Monster could be treated similarly. Legends is much easier to "proxy" minis into without it feeling off. But, it' also not the same thing as a SDE versus or cooperative tactical experience. It's a different game. So it's hard to call it a starting point.

On the other hand, the other game modes (currently known as classic and arcade, the 1 Vs. many and cooperative version respectively) don't require someone to be involved from "day one". All that would really do for you is mean you've been around for the release of various sets and expansions along the way. However, it's far from necessary to have every set to have an enjoyable game set up. Also, sets have been getting re-releases since major rule changes. So certain old sets have become more accessible (or will become accessible again, when they release again). If you're a completionist, this will help. If you're a cray completionist, and need every version of every release of every model...you're going to have a much harder time at this point! XD

When the 2.0 version core set releases, that is all you will need to play the versus version of the game. The midnight tower base set will be the set for the cooperative version (and the two are fully cross compatible, adding content and variety to each other). At least that is the plan I most recently remember hearing. Don't let it's history of expansions intimidate you though. There's no past expansion or side release that is necessary to play the game.

I first learned about Super Dungeon Explore playing it on Tabletop Simulator and loved it, very much wanted to add the physical version of it to my collection. Alas...it looks like one of those situations where you're kinda hosed as you'll never catch up to the content if you weren't around for it since day 1. >< (so yeah, my only criticism of this game is it feels very inaccessible to newcomers)

Anyway, two questions.Will Super Dungeon Legends be a good starting point for getting into the game or are you still kneecapped if you haven't been already collecting the game for years?Is there any projected release date for it? (Sorry if this is a dumb question but I really tried to find one)

So, rather than being a "good" or "bad" start, Legends is really just a"different" start. Whereas Forgotten King was a new core set with revised improved rules (adding Arcade mode for full co-op play), Legends is a product that is geared specifically toward campaign play -almost in the same way as one of the many popular RPG-IN-A-BOX games that have come out in the last five years. It initially sounded like a much deeper RPG experience when I chose to support the product, but honestly, having a campaign at all sounds like a nice addition to the to existing modes, and it's hard to say no to THAT MANY MINIATURES in one purchase.

As someone who missed the boat on kick-starting the original game and the Forgotten King, there are a few miniatures that I will probably never be able to add to my collection... I'm a bit of a completionist at times, so it bugs me a little bit, but honestly not that much. The core games already come with about twice as many characters as you can get into a healthy length game at once, and it takes a lot of games to cycle players through all of those characters. That's a LOT of Fame time before you've run out of characters. Add to that that every level pack and every warband pack also come with new heroes, and you'll find that you have more of them than you know what to do with. Seriously, it's borderline on being a point of contention now. If you grab both the original and FK sets. You'll be in that boat from step 1. If you just buy one core game the area you'll find things a little lacking is variety of enemies and especially bosses; fortunately, the additional boss packs aren't expensive, and the warbands come with regular baddies AND a miniboss -you won't have to scour the web to find everything they've made in order to have a good time with this.

Since starting, I've gone back and hunted down a copy of the original set, as well as the upgrade pack to make it Arcade (co-op) compatible... Yes, you really can still find both online without insane markups, you just have to look really well. I've also slowly acquired a lot of the warbands, a level pack or two, and some tile sets. At this point, my collection is FULL of variety in enemies, which is a huge step toward making the game stay fresh. I can cobble together an appropriate enemy group and boss for whatever I'm in the mood to play against: whether it be dragons, evil vegetation, ninjas, or a big toothy parody of Totoro. That REALLY extends the life of this game on my table, and it's something you can easily do at your own pace. Yes, some retail products have been discontinued, but most of them were only discontinued so that an updated version could replace them (caverns of roxorz for example). Much of the good content can still be obtained through retail channels for a fair (or discounted) price. I won't say there isn't a lot of it, but it's not like you're jumping into "X-Wing" where they've put out thirteen WAVES of content that you'd have to catch up to, and it certainly isn't like Warhammer, where you'll drop $500 easily for a basic setup. Hell, I've got more of this product than most people (aside from the Kickstarter folks from the first two releases) and I don't think I've yet reached a cumulative TOTAL of $300 doing so over the last few years. Of course, backing this project, and paying extra for some add-on packs I really wanted with it has definitely pushed me over that edge, but I'll count it in when the product finally ships... And for the volume being included there, it's hard to complain.

As for release dates, were currently looking at a new "2.0 core" coming as Wave I, to be in our hands as of this April... I'll be honest, if you check the Kickstarter updates and comments, the most current info you'll find indicates that they haven't started manufacturing yet, and they don't appear to have a confirmed timeslots with a factory either -with Chinese New Year basically upon us, no manufacturing date even on the books, and the fact that it will take at least a month just to reach our shores from China, it would take Doctor Who rewriting history to make that happen. When asked, they're sticking to their guns about April, even though it's clearly slipped away from them. I get the feeling that they won't publish a new timeline until either they have those dates locked down, or we get into the month of May and it becomes rather impossible to suggest that we'll receive our packages in the past... Much as that sounds like a pointed joke, well, take a look at the updates and comments on it's page from that timeframe, they'll tell quite a story for you. Wave II and III... Which will each focus on one specific game mode, will be... Some time after Wave I? They've said a date for them in the Kickstarter, but I think we've all just mentally blocked that until we see the first round of product arrive. That happens when you've backed a product that is later split into multiple waves and still hasn't delivered anything physical more than a year after it's original stated delivery date. A lot of folks seem to have asked for a refund, while others are still trying to hold onto some level of faith in the company to ship what they've promised us. I'm personally in the "hoping" camp.

January 13th, 2018, 2:17 pm

ManicMan

Denizen

Joined: November 3rd, 2016, 9:02 amPosts: 363Location: South East England

Okay, I was under the impression that V.2 had been out for a long time and I had just completely missed the boat on getting it, hence my frustration at not finding it for sale.

I played both versions on Tabletop Sim and did find the newer rules to be better. So just wait till later this year and V.2 core set is for sale? Okay, that I can do. Thank you.

okay, SD got a bit confusing on this matter.. Forgotten King rules were mostly referered to as 'Version 2' rules.. but the new upgrade is fully called 'Version 2' so.. it's all confusing ^_^also, just to correct, April is the Estimate for Backers. No clue sign as yet for mass retail but most likely later in the year.

Hawkeye, the only thing I have to add to the excellent responses so far is that nearly anything Super Dungeon can be acquired right now. You can get most of the classic stuff right now - the Ninja Division shop has a package deal for almost everything. They've reprinted and updated a bunch of stuff, though Von Drakk might be hard to pick up. Roxor is available now. Forgotten King isn't hard to find at all.

If you've got the dollars to put down, you can pick up 95% of everything released so far.

"Hawkeye, the only thing I have to add to the excellent responses so far is that nearly anything Super Dungeon can be acquired right now. You can get most of the classic stuff right now - the Ninja Division shop has a package deal for almost everything. They've reprinted and updated a bunch of stuff, though Von Drakk might be hard to pick up. Roxor is available now. Forgotten King isn't hard to find at all.

If you've got the dollars to put down, you can pick up 95% of everything released so far."

That's not what I'm seeing on their site. All the old stuff is out of stock as well as anything that could work as a base game.

This is what's proving frustrating for me. I want to get into this but it seems it's all expansions and no base to start from available.

I managed to grab one from Archonia recently. It must have been the last box in their stock, because site states it's out but will be backordered... so, it might be worth to keep an eye on Archonia for anyone in Europe interested in VD. It might show up again.

"Hawkeye, the only thing I have to add to the excellent responses so far is that nearly anything Super Dungeon can be acquired right now. You can get most of the classic stuff right now - the Ninja Division shop has a package deal for almost everything. They've reprinted and updated a bunch of stuff, though Von Drakk might be hard to pick up. Roxor is available now. Forgotten King isn't hard to find at all.

If you've got the dollars to put down, you can pick up 95% of everything released so far."

That's not what I'm seeing on their site. All the old stuff is out of stock as well as anything that could work as a base game.

This is what's proving frustrating for me. I want to get into this but it seems it's all expansions and no base to start from available.

The way to remedy this is to pick up a copy of Arena.

Between a set of dungeon tiles, a level box, and arena, you can play SDE without a starter box.

PVP Arena stuff will make you busy until the new Explore/Arcade/Legends core boxes hit retail.About last KS Legends update, the sudden bonus of pet models from Forgotten King inside the Pet Parade and hero cards for NPC indicates enough resources (aka. money) to keep the company's machine working until backers receive their pledges.

I would like an upgrade kit of Boss Fight / Timeout with cards in standard size of Forgotten King, Goro, Von Drakk and Beatrix, maybe with a couple of generic Relic Cards but, not a must, maybe the updated Dungeon Boss cards with the equipment slots, also not so necessary. The fact of rid off mini-american cards from Explore/Arcade decks is enough.

At least a PDF with this I guess not so hard to company put available to us. I gladly print it myself and use some sleeves filled it in the middle with outdated or repeated cards.

The last few updates have gotten me more hyped for the game than I have been in months. I think now we've seen all the printed materials we will receive, sans Legends materials. The only thing I can't find are the alternate cards for the Forgotten King monsters. Have those surfaced somewhere?