Friday, August 18, 2006

Moooo [choke]

Once again, I'm reminded of the bass-ackwards way in which Notre Dame funds its athletics programs via an email fowarded to me today.

ND had $11.2 million in cash (after expenses) from the Fiesta Bowl bid that the football team earned last season. Here's how the money was spent:

$1.5m for retrospective purchases for the Library and other Library needs

$1m to endow job placement services for spousal hires

$2.7m for Jordan Hall equipment

$2m to endow undergraduate need-based financial aid

$2m to endow graduate student financial aid

$1m to endow ten new undergraduate summer research stipends

$500k towards architecture graduate student financial aid

$500k towards MBA student financial aid

Setting aside for a moment (a) the ridiculous expenditure on "job placement services for spousal hires", (b) the spending of the same amount of money on graduate student financial aid endowment as undergrad endowment even though there are four times as many undergrads, not to mention the curious lack of the word "need-based" in any financial aid line items other than undergrad, (c) the expenditure on Jordan Hall equipment, a project that was supposed to be donations-driven, and (d) the departure of these windfalls thanks to the recent BCS negotiations (all of which could be blog entries in and of themselves), I can't help but notice not one dime of this surplus earned by an athletic team was reinvested into athletic endevors, while some sports are going hat-in-hand to University benefactors looking for the basic tools they need to succeed.

To be fair, the $11.2m was after what was deducted for bowl expenses and what was called "other athletic department allocations". Based on that math, out of $14.5m paid for the bowl appearance, $3.3m was spent on those bowl and AD expenses. Given that schools have either turned down or severely cut back on expenses when travelling to bowls that pay less than $2m, it's a logical assumption that's what was spent by ND to take the team/band/etc. to Tempe. That means $1.3m out of $12.5 -- ten percent of the total -- of athletics-earned money was actually reinvested into athletics.

Any businessman will tell you if you only reinvest ten percent of your money into your business, your business will most likely fail.

I'm not advocating 100 percent reinvestment and the creation of some kind of athletic fiefdom. I think it's excellent and appropriate that the money earned in athletics is invested to help the school -- after all, the purpose of a school is to educate. I just think it's equally wrong for a such a low percentage of reinvestment, especially when Notre Dame isn't exactly known to spend its windfalls wisely (see: Center, Performing Arts).

Let's say Notre Dame implemented a 25 percent reinvestiment policy for moneys earned by the sports teams after expenses. That still leaves three dollars for every four for the University at large. 25 percent of $12.5m is $3,125,000, which would be a nice contribution to the facilities upgrade funding. Granted, professor's spouses would have to find their own jobs (which I'm sure is a bewildering prospect in a job market the size of South Bend's) and there'd be 10 fewer "endowed undergraduate summer research stipends", but I think an improvement to the second-most used building on campus would justify that.

Besides, those strike me as the kinds of things donations should cover. Or so I've been told.

I've read estimates that ND clears up to $48m per year from football. Assuming that's true, 25 percent of that for one season would pay for just about every athletics capital improvement plan outside of the Joyce Center redo. And that's just one season.

In his email detailing the Fiesta Bowl expenditures, Fr. Jenkins said Notre Dame was "extremely fortunate to have at Notre Dame a spirit of cooperation and mutual support between our athletics department and the academy." Sorry, but I don't think that looks mutual at all. Athletics is funding a lot of things that look pretty specious, while they beg for infrastructure and salary improvements that would help them bring in even more money.

Businesses that are successful aren't used as cash cows. They're nurtured so they can continue to provide for the community. Feeding our cow cheap oats is not the way to go here.

50 Comments:

Anonymous said...

Now you really do sound like The Rock.

The University was built largely on what Rockne (at least according to Sperber) thought was exploitation of the football team. Virtually all of the money (much greater than 75%) made by Rock's teams went back into the University. It's why the University is a good as it is today. It's also one of the big reasons why Rock's relationship with the administration was, well, rocky.

The Fiesta Bowl expenditures you describe are consistent with how it's always been, and it has served us well most of the time. I'm just not convinced this is a big deal.

I agree with the writer of the article, that it is absolutely outrageous that the money is spent in this way. But, what do you expect when socialists and academic types,(oops, thats the same thing), get thier way.

the same "socialist and academic" type who made the final decision on the fiesta bowl money also made the final descision on the 40 million dollar contract for charlie. If any of our sports teams are ever truly in a financial pinch the university will help out.

I'm not sure how much you guys know about maintaining--let alone improving--academic programs, but spousal placement is becoming a real thorn in the side of administrators. Just about any senior hire nowadays will have a spouse who, about 7 out of ten times, is also in academia. Departments get really irritated when they are all but forced to take on a new faculty member as part of a joint deal, particularly when the spouse is in another department.

I don't disagree with the larger point being made--and I certainly am all in favor of improving the basketball facilities as a priority--but one million for this doesn't strike me as excessive. Especially if we don't know whether this was a supplement to an already-granted amount or replaced that amount or was a completely new appropriation.

Not sure I can understand the point. Is the athletic program short of cash to begin with, and the University draining it of its precious liquidity? or is the Football program so flush with cash that it can be generous enough to help support the programs mentioned? In walking around campus it seems like the athletics programs are well funded, as they should be.

Not sure I can understand the point. Is the athletic program short of cash to begin with, and the University draining it of its precious liquidity? or is the Football program so flush with cash that it can be generous enough to help support the programs mentioned? In walking around campus it seems like the athletics programs are well funded, as they should be.

The university's mission is to educate students. Taking a windfall of money and dedicating that to education? I think ND alums should be very happy with the university's priorities.

As far as the amounts allocated? It's impossible to judge those in a vacuum. One would need to see the overall university budget to make informed decisions. I can imagine that supporting spousal employment helps recruit faculty (I know it does, actually), and providing extra funding for graduate student tuition certainly helps bring in top-tier graduate students. Both of those expenditures help improve the univerisity's academic mission, which is it's main mission.

I'm not advocating starving the athletic department, but they aren't starving.

Notre Dame is an academic instituion WITH a football team, not the other way around. Therefore, funding resources are allocated to various academic initiatives, THEN the leftovers are given to the Athletic Dept. Don't get me wrong, I am a huge Irish football fan and I'd rather see ND churning out 1st Round draft picks instead of eventual lawyers and CPA's...but that's not reality. As much as we want to win a national championship and lift/run in a brand new, state-of-the-art facility...Gen. Chem. 101 comes first. There's only 1 Top Tier university who can top ND in terms of Athletics AND Academics (Stanford). I don't know about you, but when I finally acquire the means to donate to ND...I'd like my money going towards deserving students or research grants instead of new bench press machines. I don't think our football team is complaining about Fiesta Bowl funds...I think Weis and Co. are focusing on R. Ball/C. Johnson & J.D. Booty/D. Jarrett instead.

* I will also agree to the $1M job placement allocation being ridiculous.com

I'm not sure why spousal placement would be difficult. It's not like the South Bend job market is immense with a lot of intricate niches. How hard would it be to keep a list of contacts in the industries represented in the area and putting those contacts in touch with the spouses when necessary? That's two ten-minute phone calls.

Regarding academia, what's the alternative? At the University level, if there isn't a spot for them at SMC or IUSB or Bethel, they're SOL. If you mean the million is to make it more palatable for departments to take on professors they don't need and/or want because their spouse is in demand, I think that's even more of a waste of money.

Uh, folks...money for spousal hires is a HUGE thing for hiring the best professors out there...especially if they have to work in South Bend.

Also, giving some more money to graduate students at Notre Dame is not a bad idea. Compared to other schools, Notre Dame really skimps on stipends...another important thing if you want the best graduate students to come there instead of, say, Berkeley for 10,000 more dollars per year.

Notre Dame, like any highly scrutinized entity, is obligated to disseminate information in a manner that places itself in the best possible light.

With football success comes the inevitable media drumbeat that “Notre Dame is selling its soul for football glory.” I would hope that Fr. Jenkens and co. are aware of this recurring theme. It would therefore be eminently wise to be able to show how “football glory” is in fact feeding academic (not athletic) progress.

So, does this mean that the BCS windfall had little or no benefit to the football team and the rest of the athletic department? The following analogy combines two passions: football and politics.

Many of us are incensed that Planned Parenthood receives money (our money) from the federal government. We view it as a government subsidy of abortion. Planned Parenthood counters that the federal money goes exclusively toward their other programs. Yet subsidizing these other programs enables Planned Parenthood to spend their non-government revenues elsewhere. Where does that money eventually go?

I shudder to equate abortions to football, but is it unreasonable to assume that the same logic applies to Notre Dame? I honestly don’t know. How formidable are the barriers between the academic and athletic revenue streams?

A lot of specious reasoning in this article. Just becuase this particular lot of money was split 50-50 graduate- vs undergraduate is not that important. Its $1M bucks - a drop in the bucket. Whats the total split across the Uni

To clarify on the job placement - Its $1M to create an endowment for this purpose, they arent "spending" $1M on this. Assume 5-15% annual return on their money, this is 50-150K per year added this function.

If you have an issue with the entire notion of assistnace for spousal faculty - then I can only say - do you want the best faculty or not?

I agree with you on a lot of issues, but you are completely off base on this one. ND athletics exist to serve the university. ND got back into bowl games in the late 1960's primarily to service minority scholarships. (The payout after that first Cotton Bowl was a few hundred thousand dollars.) This has evolved over time, as the bowl payouts have grown, to other university-wide needs. I dont understand the particulars of the list funded by the most recent Fiesta Bowl, so I wont question it. I will say that when the band went to game in Tempe the year before, they were only there for about 48 hours to limit expenses. I suspect the band spent a lot more time in Tempe this time around. The entire athletic dept fully understands the budget process at ND and serve accordingly. This is the ND way.

I can see where appropriating bowl moneys in that way is great PR/air cover down the road. "Look what ND did with their bowl funds compared this or that football factory."

I don't think it means a thing about admin priorities. It's a shell game. There's a huge pot of money and how we publicly say we spend a certain $11 million of it is fairly irrelevant. Spending $x million of bowl funds on spousal relocations means we don't have to spend $x million of (pick another bucket) on that item.

I'm all for a significant reinvestment in basketball, but I think this particular piece of evidence is weak.

It's like my lovely (Boston) diocese telling us not a dime of our contributions will go toward sexual abuse settlements. Well, if my donation is going towards keeping the lights on because all of the electricity funds went towards the sexual abuse cases....it's marketing.

Sorry, but I strongly disagree with the author on this point. Your business reinvestment analogy is far too simplistic and doesn't hold up. A closer analogy would be to imagine the government, whose primary income is taxes. But they don't use tax money to reinvest in tax collection, instead they use it to enhance and expand the services that are required that don't bring in money themselves (or at least ideally they do this). Or imagine Apple, who uses the incredible amount of money it makes from iPods to invest in other areas of development, such as its operating system and desktop computers, that make up a far lower percentage of its money-making power.

All of that aside, the University's mission is to educate and, as shown by the breakdown of these numbers, that involves a lot of varying types of expenses. While 14 million dollars seems like a lot of money, it's a small splash in the University's total pool. Whether the athletic programs are properly funded is an entirely different question than how the particular funds coming from a BCS bowl are spent. If anything, this BONUS is the first sign in a long while that the enormous amount of money the school invests in the football program are indeed worthwhile. We pay Weis and his assistants more than we've spent in the past because the university knew it would reap rewards (ticket sales this year, bowl money, merchandise sales, etc). Now those rewards are coming in, and it is the University's money to spend as they feel it best meets its overall mission.

I have plenty of problems with how the University spends its money (we need more merit-based scholarships and other forms of financial aid for one), this is definitely not a case of mismanagement in my mind.

Although I don't necessarily see a problem with those expenditures (from my socialist accademic point of view they are all considered important one way or another) - I think what ElK is annoyed about is how things like the JACC renovations keep on getting knocked to the bottom of the list. When athletic money does finally come in (BCS payout) where you would expect a significant portion to go to athletic expenditures (ie the JACC), they cover accademic expenses.

going down the list: job placement office for spouses isn't ridiculous, all the schools we compete against for faculty have them already, and this is (hopefully) a one-time expenditure

Although there are 4 times more undergrads than grads, there are WAY more donors boosting the undergrad financial aid than grads, so the money has to come from somewhere. "need based" pretty much only applies to undergrads, there rarely is "need based" financial aid in grad school anywhere. ND also relies on good foreign grad students, so domestic fellowships are not available for them and they need the university's endowment to support them.

you're right about the jordan hall equipment - sounds like someone skipped out on their pledge or something and they needed cash

and you're completely right about (d), this is the last one we're getting in a while, and we have been putting off projects alot - it just shows that those expenditures are on the bottom of the list

Scott, I see and agree with what you're saying. However, I'd amend it slightly.

It bothers me to hear all the time that things like the JC redo should be covered by donations. Then I look at that list and see things like library updates and Jordan Center equipment and things like that, and I think, "Wait a minute, aren't those things that should be covered by donations too?"

My first question with this analysis is that the bowl revenue is not the same as total revenue from the football program. Another comment might be that all money at ND is green. There is no athletic money or tuition money. The earmaking of the bowl revenues allows them to use other sources of income to fund AD items. They smartly apply the highly visible earnings to academic pursuits to allow the AD to be funded by less visible income. I have no idea how much money was earmarked for the athletic department for the year. It doesn't bother me one bit that very little has been distributed from the bowl revenues. This is a separate argument from why certain sports facilities aren't being funded. One is a choice in direction the other is a choice in sourcing.

The University has a billion dollar endowment. Scott Malpass is the Charlie Weis of University investing.

1. You have no idea what the entire balance sheet looks like do you? For instance, what does the Athletic Department budget look like? And what is the allocation for capital investments over the next year, 2 years, 3 years, 5 years and 10 years look like?

I think its a bad idea to pass judgement when there's such a lack of information.

I really don't worry about ND's financial planning. The school has come a long way in the 35 years I've been associated with it. Its made tremendous improvements in almost all facets of its existence.

$11.2 million just seems negligible when compared to the total picture.

I've been waiting over six years for these alleged facilities upgrades ND basketball is supposed to get. They haven't happened, so I'm guessing I don't need to see the balance sheet to know they're not there.

I'm tired of lip service from an administration who say they care, and trot out alums like John Paxson and Tommy Hawkins -- good and true ND men both -- and talk about how proud they are of them while bleeding dry the program that produced them.

I've stayed quiet on this front too long and nothing has happened. Time to get loud.

The purpose of Notre Dame is to be an outstanding academic institution. Everything the University does should have the ultimate goal of making it better able to serve that purpose. Having a football team that makes money to help the rest of the school is a great asset, as is (of course) the great school pride inspired by the football team.

I think giving more money to the basketball team is merited if it can help the University serve its students better, whether by increasing school pride or by bringing in money to fund scholarships. If putting $14m into the bball program would make the team more competitive and help it bring in more revenue, then we should certainly do it, as it will ultimately be a good investment for the school. However, I'm not sure whether that will happen and I don't think the basketball team should be given priority over academic programs.

As for the spousal hire issue, my brother is the dean of a small, rural Indiana college. His constant "complaint" is that they lose excellent faculty recruits all the time because they have nothing in the entire area that will serve as spousal work options. Yet the government requires a certain "percentage" of female hiring. Women who are quite qualified and want to come are often stopped because their equally competent husbands both in and out of academia would not be able to find employment. It puts the college between a rock and a hard place.

2) I realize the $1m is an endowment. ND is still tying up $1m in working capital that could be used for something else. So as far as I'm concerned, the $1m is gone.

3) I guess I'm confused as to what this $60k a year is going to do for spouse job placement. Are they hiring someone who will help spouses find a job? If so, my "list of contacts" response stands. That person can't create jobs that aren't there, and won't be as helpful as a contact person actually in the industry. So how is this money well spend/endowed?

When Notre Dame returned to bowl game participation in 1970, I recall that we were told that the funds would be plowed back into the educational side of our institution, not athletics. This was the basis upon which we were sold the notion that we too could play bowl games. The payout (About $350,000 I recall)seemed like a lot of money at the time. As players, we had to sacrifice our Christmas break--back in the days when exams were after Christmas. Effectively, we were given three days off for Christmas, but had to be back in Dallas the day after to continue practice. But we agreed that it was the right thing to do.

I think that continuing this balance of athletics and academics is sound, and is based on the tradition that put us in the bowl hunt to begin with.

As a former department chair, I can honestly say that the ability to hire or place spouses gives an institution a tremendous leg up in hiring its top choice faculty candidates. The $1m could be to fund a placement service or to establish temporary jobs before permanent ones become available; in either case, it will help hire the best available faculty.

Those of us who are arts and humanities graduates of ND have always bemoaned the administration's slowness in funding a performance arts center that would house the theater/film/music/media departments and provide the ND and SB community with state of the art performance facilities. This has been finally accomplished after priority fundings to the law school, the business school, and the sciences. For many of us, this was money spent wisely; my only gripe is that the performance center is far from the center of campus, when it should be the heart and soul of the campus in a physical as well a spiritual sense, much like the library and Sacred Heart cathedral.

Thanks to Dave for the reminder that ND's bowl commitment in the 1970s came with a commitment to use those funds for academic or University purposes, a wise and ultimately terrific public relations decision. We are in the pursuit of education first, and our athletes benefit tremendously from this priority.

Athletic funding has not been remiss; it comes from other sources. I would think that the basketball facilities are very much on the minds of the administration and will soon be upgraded.

As you see, I don't agree with the Rock's opinion on the bowl funding, but thanks for raising the issue.

Department Chair, I appreciate the comments. However, the PAC project had cost overruns in the tens of millions of dollars, most of which could have been avoided by not making changes to the design mid-project.

I recognize the need for a facility for the theater/film/media folks, but don't believe we should have spent over $70m to build it. The money from the cost overruns could have funded a lot of projects on campus, including the JC upgrades.

Just a point that I haven't seen anyone else make... In the past, ND did not actively solicit funds for the athletic dept. Now they do (see back inside cover of 06 media guide). I agree with the basketball needs, but this distribution is very PC, and I suspect and hope that upgrades are coming for hoops...

This is a painfully uneducated view of university financing. Aside from what has already said, “need based” graduate financial aid is a misnomer. I did my undergraduate work at ND, but currently work in a comparable school’s Financial Aid Office. There is no such thing as institutional need based graduate financial aid. Graduate students are generally only eligible for departmental funding and federal aid, neither of which would be classified as “need based” for the university’s purposes. But I suppose it’s easier just to rant about things we don’t understand and other ill-informed hot button topics, than to actually do research and validate our own opinions…

On the remark about there being no mention of need being a basis for the graduate financial aid, I can tell you've not spent much time around a graduate school.. except in the professional schools (law, medicine, business), if you can't make the grade to earn a fellowship (i.e. some of that graduate student financial aid you're griping about), in most cases, you don't join the program.

I was the beneficiary of some of that money and must say I'm quite grateful to the success of the ND football program for enabling me to earn a masters in my field. For the university as a whole, I'd say that that is as valid and honorable a use of that money as any LCD flat-panel-laden practice facility could be.

I have to disagree with you completely. How many times have you written about all that is right with ND in regards to the academic and athletics balance compared to other institutions? You are always critical of the Tennessees, Oklahomas,etc. regarding their lack of commitment to academics and exploitation of talented athletes. This article sounds as if it was penned by a disgruntled benefactor of one of those institutions. I hope this was a temporary lapse in judgement and not your true belief. You run a great board but this article is way off target.

Anybody that thinks our athletic programs are in dire need of money hasn't been paying much attention.

In order for you to conclude we're wasting money on "unimportant" things like academics, you're going to have to disclose the whole spreadsheet on our athletic program revenue and expenses, including the ungodly sums we earn on ND wear.....I think we're probably OK.

I agree with you most of the time El...but not this time. I'm proud we have an athletic program that generates revenue for academics....it's the other way around just about everywhere else!

In order for you to conclude we're wasting money on "unimportant" things like academics...

I "concluded" no such thing.

And if "we're probably OK", why does the Joyce Center remain in its dilapidated state six years after renovations were first discussed? Meanwhile, every other sport on campus is fully funded with scholarships and most enjoy quality facilities.

As a recent 2006 graduate who is very supportive of ND athletics (especially football), I still disagree with the author. First, football is a cash-cow for the university but that does not mean all revenue from football should be devoted towards the athletics department. Rather, donations increase exponentially when an ND football team performs well. Unlike schools such as Dartmoth, ND allows large contributors to specify the programs to which their money will support. For instance, Mr. Mendoza originally specified that his money go towards the business school (hence the Mendoza School of Business), Regis Philbin specified his money go towards the new theatre in the new performing arts facility, etc. Many large contributors will help ND athletics when they are in need...just look at the Gug. Do you really think funding for the Gug was that hard to find? I'm just saying that ND has more to look out for than its athletics teams...those (especially football and basketball) will always generate much support and funding.

For instance, this past year I took a physiology lab in the basement of Galvin Hall. My instructor, who happened to be a grad student, constantly reminded us of how underfunded the bio department was and that the new Jordan Hall of Science was not as well-funded as orginally expected. His exact wording was, "I've heard that they are cutting serious corners". Further, in order to equip the new Jordan Hall of Science better, funding for many undergrad labs in Galvin were cut this past year. In essence, our lab of 15 students shared things such as one decent scalpal. As it turned out, I talked to my lab instructor in the spring and he remarked on how much better the Galvin labs were equipped. Then he claimed that the Jordan Hall of Science would not have to cut corners because the money the university received from the Fiesta Bowl would exponentially help.

After reading this article, I assume that you think all university debts are paid. In fact they are not. The university was borrowing funding from undergrad labs in Galvin Hall to improve (but still shabbily) the building and equipping of Jordan Hall. Once the Fiesta Bowl money came in, the university must have decided that this "unexpected" money could help improve the university as a whole. Further, they probably determined that many supportive donors would help a needy football or basketball team whereas they would be less generous in equipping a science hall.

As a whole, I understand your complaint. However, neither you nor I completely understand the university funding. The university has very competent people in place to best utilize and capitalize on its money. In no way have I ever been dissatisfied with the state of ND athletics facitlites. Sure ND has a poor basketball arena, but ND is a football school. Look at Duke's football stadium, etc. Furthermore, if ND really deemed a state-of-the-art basketball facility necessary for the university to function, fund itself, and provide a top-quality education, many donors would be willing to support that cause. As it stands, ND football is king, ND football has a great stadium, ND football has tremendous practice facilities, ND students in need are financially supported, and ND is continuing to better its academic reputation.

You can complain about the manner in which the money was distributed, but those involved with spending ND's money have shown compentence and skill in my opinion over time.

The argument that the money should go to under graduate studies over graduate studies is illogical. It is the graduate students who give their time to teaching assisting. The money that comes to the univeristy through research grants given to the graduate program helps to fund and support the undergraduate program.

In addition, if the job placement for spousal hires brings in one top faculty member, it is more likely that in one year this faculty member will bring more grant money to the university than was ever spent on finding a job for his/her spouse.

All I see here are good investments for Notre Dame. That being said there are some needs in the athletic department that need to addressed like the JACC renovations. I personally would have liked to see a little more money diverted to other sports.

The Football program has a budget. It is consistently funded. The real fear should be if the University relied on bowl revenue to support the program. the idea that in 2005 the program had a windfall and turns it back to the university is absolutely consistent with what businesses do.

Total nonsense post. You never mention the football revenue generated by the NBC contract..aprx 7 mil per year, away game TV revenue... aprx another 5 mil per year, home game ticket sales..aprx 33 mil per year, donations by alumni to qualify for the ticket lottery, increased donations to ND generated by the success and buzz of the football program, bookstore sales, stadium concessions....

In short the football program is directly or indirectly responsible for 90-100 million per year to the University.....plus local economic impact.

Fact is the football program is the finacial engine that drives and funds ALL of ND sports programs. The bowl game is a BONUS and treated as such by the University as a discretionary windfall.

ND is notoriously slow in upgrading athletic facilities football included however when they do it it is done state of the art, world class, ACC/Joyce as an example when opened in the late 60's

The basketball program's improvements are on the horizon and hopefully when they are done then they hoopsters will generate something besides dissapointment and red ink. Why does no one complain about the joke known as the Hockey facilities, most high schools have better venues than ND.

Tip, full picture, full disclosure are crucial if your blogs are to be taken seriously! Taking one line item and overreacting does not speak well of your ability to put forth a coherent argument.

I swear, I should just take this entry down, because the vast majority of you are either not reading it or not understanding what I'm saying.

Total nonsense post. You never mention the football revenue generated by the NBC contract..aprx 7 mil per year, away game TV revenue... aprx another 5 mil per year, home game ticket sales..aprx 33 mil per year, donations by alumni to qualify for the ticket lottery, increased donations to ND generated by the success and buzz of the football program, bookstore sales, stadium concessions....

In short the football program is directly or indirectly responsible for 90-100 million per year to the University.....plus local economic impact.

None of which is relevant to my point. I wasn't about to list everything athletics brings in because I wasn't talking about particular line items. I cited some inflows as examples of how an overall philosophy could be applied.

I want to see more of the dollars earned by athletics (not all, more, for those who have already missed that point) used for athletics. I don't see the point is redirecting millions of athletics-earned dollars back into the school at large when a project like the Joyce Center remains unfunded years after assurances it was "about to start". The AD should be able to fund its own (critical) needs before turning money over to other ND programs, not have to beg for money while giving virtually everything it earns to academics.

Fact is the football program is the finacial engine that drives and funds ALL of ND sports programs. The bowl game is a BONUS and treated as such by the University as a discretionary windfall.

All the more reason to consider a "discretionary" project like the JC upgrades.

ND is notoriously slow in upgrading athletic facilities football included however when they do it it is done state of the art, world class, ACC/Joyce as an example when opened in the late 60's

And that's a good thing? That should be allowed to continue?

Their "state of the art" hoops plan, reportedly, doesn't include a practice facility, which is a million times more important than replacing the seat covers in the JC. So forgive me if I don't have a lot of confidence in this plan.

The basketball program's improvements are on the horizon and hopefully when they are done then they hoopsters will generate something besides dissapointment and red ink.

The basketball team operates at a surplus and has for quite a while now. As you said, full picture full disclosure.

Why does no one complain about the joke known as the Hockey facilities, most high schools have better venues than ND.

Check NDN once in a while ... a lot of people there do. My topic was limited to basketball.

To disagree with the distribution of the Fiesta Bowl proceeds is to disagree with the basic philosophy of the University of Notre Dame. First and foremost, it is a upper echelon university that is focused on providing the very best education possible to the very best students available. To do this, you need the very best staff. To compete for the very best staff in this day when both spouses are employed, it is imperative to provide employment assistance for the spouse. Lest we forget, athletics are part of the University...they are not the University.

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