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Greta Thunberg

They gave her the 10 past 8 slot on Radio 4's Today programme this morning; I suppose that's recognition that climate change makes trivia like Brexit seem insignificant. She's naive, yes, like the mythical boy who pointed out that the emperor had no clothes (and who was also right); but I am so reassured to find that there are young people who are willing to put themselves out to do what is right.

In his lifetime he suffered from unreality, as do so many Englishmen.Jorge Luis Borges

They gave her the 10 past 8 slot on Radio 4's Today programme this morning; I suppose that's recognition that climate change makes trivia like Brexit seem insignificant. She's naive, yes, like the mythical boy who pointed out that the emperor had no clothes (and who was also right); but I am so reassured to find that there are young people who are willing to put themselves out to do what is right.

It's great that the issue is finally getting some proper media and political attention but I do worry slightly on two counts;

i)the deification of Greta Thunberg - we don't need icons in this situation, we need mass mobilisation on a scale not seen before. As we well know, the media and those in power like nothing better than to build someone up and then knock them way down again and I don't want them to have that opportunity to trash the whole movement in this way.

ii) I worry that the message being put across is that if we act within the next 12 years, then we'll be ok. We won't. Certainly if the majority of climate science is correct, that's the case. And I think people may pick up on the message that if we just do something now, we can go on living the lifestyles we currently have and all will be fine. If you believe the climate science, if you look at our depleting natural resources and if you look at our current lifestyles, then huge changes will need to be made to the way in which we live our lives - maybe not in our generation or even our children's but down the line. The sooner we start, the better and yet, in many areas, we're heading in completely the wrong direction.

In terms of the way that the media portray all of us, I also offer up as evidence the fact that, of all the reports I saw, every one of them showed and/or talked to Greta Thunberg and yet not one showed the representatives from the home countries, who were also present.

In the case of Holly, from Fort William, she's stood outside the school in town every Friday morning through all the weather that a Highland winter can throw at you. Initially there were just one or two but over the months, quite a few of us have gathered and additional side events have been organised and it is this grass roots mobilisation that will facilitate the change required, not the creating of environmental celebrities.

I have little doubt Ms Thunberg is a product of her generation, that is:
-The generation that is more likely to holiday abroad than ever. We didn't.
-The generation in which students in the US are recorded as 50 percent owning cars. We didn't..
-The generation that buys processed food and or food out instead of cooking from raw with no packaging. Most youngsters have no clue how to do it.
- The generation that trashes rather than renovates. That must have the latest, trashing the old.
How dare the profligate generation protest?

But most of all the generation in which:
-Everything is easy for them that do not have to do it. Its the politicians fault, not theirs.
-There are unlimited quantities of other peoples money to fix all problems, but never their own.
-The generation that pretends there are no hard choices, just saying "no to gas or oil" solves it all. Will they like candles?
Just like our parliament says no to the deal and no to no deal. Nobody does hard choices. Our parliament does what Ms Thunberg and our grandchildren do saying "don't like it". "don't want it"

Meanwhile....they are happy to destroy the economy which pays for the lot.
These youngsters need to realise, that any idiot can think of 100 more good causes to spend other peoples money on, it takes neither compassion nor skill: Corbyn is living proof of that. The hard bit is earning it. In short a generation which lives off entitlement not responsibility which is the message of Corbyn.

Meanwhile we cook from raw, no packaging, we generate most of our energy, we recycle and renovate all we can. I run an old car, despite being able to afford a dozen new ones because 60 tonnes of CO2 went into making it. And it is pretty much as efficient as newer.. We never do long haul lights except on business, and only then if a conference call wont fix it. Yet they protest against us.
We are Spartacus.

The answer to it all is nuclear fusion, including unlimited cheap food. Give it time. If the young generation haven't trashed the economy that might pay to develop it that is.

Originally Posted by Mr1470

It's great that the issue is finally getting some proper media and political attention but I do worry slightly on two counts;

i)the deification of Greta Thunberg - we don't need icons in this situation, we need mass mobilisation on a scale not seen before. As we well know, the media and those in power like nothing better than to build someone up and then knock them way down again and I don't want them to have that opportunity to trash the whole movement in this way.

ii) I worry that the message being put across is that if we act within the next 12 years, then we'll be ok. We won't. Certainly if the majority of climate science is correct, that's the case. And I think people may pick up on the message that if we just do something now, we can go on living the lifestyles we currently have and all will be fine. If you believe the climate science, if you look at our depleting natural resources and if you look at our current lifestyles, then huge changes will need to be made to the way in which we live our lives - maybe not in our generation or even our children's but down the line. The sooner we start, the better and yet, in many areas, we're heading in completely the wrong direction.

In terms of the way that the media portray all of us, I also offer up as evidence the fact that, of all the reports I saw, every one of them showed and/or talked to Greta Thunberg and yet not one showed the representatives from the home countries, who were also present.

In the case of Holly, from Fort William, she's stood outside the school in town every Friday morning through all the weather that a Highland winter can throw at you. Initially there were just one or two but over the months, quite a few of us have gathered and additional side events have been organised and it is this grass roots mobilisation that will facilitate the change required, not the creating of environmental celebrities.

The answer to it all is nuclear fusion, including unlimited cheap food. Give it time. If the young generation haven't trashed the economy that might pay to develop it that is.

Just Googled "will nuclear fusion ever be viable". The numbers varied a bit but unfortunately, it sounds like it is a few decades away yet.

Don't know about the "unlimited cheap food", but the type of food we eat will probably have to change, Inexpensive fruit and veg from half way around the world, and even the amount of meat is an issue.

It may be decades away. But I look at the near exponential improvement of magnetic materials and superconductors and state is only a matter of time before we can crush plasma to make it fuse. Carrying energy away is a problem which is why I think it will be many small local energy plants, not mega centralized. There is a limit to how much energy density such as molten liquid metals can carry away to exchangers, unless someone thinks of a better way.

We have to bridge a few decades. Protesters cannot turn off all we presently have.

Like new antibiotics it needs the political will backed by cash, and without the oversize committees pulling in 27 different directions, which is why I think it will be done by private enterprise. And that will create problems for IPR like the genome project once did. I think it will suddenly turn up, rather than be the product of a long development cycle. Once superconductors have sufficient in hand to create the necessary fields, it will happen quickly in my view

With unlimited cheap energy can come unlimited cheap food production. All you need is unlimited light, heat and water, biology does the rest. And since you are no longer reliant on local climate, covered nurseries and farms can be tropical even in scotland! food production can be where you are.

Originally Posted by DrPatrickBarry

Just Googled "will nuclear fusion ever be viable". The numbers varied a bit but unfortunately, it sounds like it is a few decades away yet.

Don't know about the "unlimited cheap food", but the type of food we eat will probably have to change, Inexpensive fruit and veg from half way around the world, and even the amount of meat is an issue.

I am amazed that more young people - and not necessarily as young as Greta - do not get involved in climate change issues as 1/ surely they do not feel that Theresa May's generation represents them and 2/ it will affect them in a bigger way and for far longer than it effects us oldies.
Whilst individuals can - or won't - do some of the right things, governments can achieve far more, given the will/incentive.
We all know things we do out of choice that ideally we wouldn't - that car driven to the fell race with empty seats is a simple example.
One of my favourite phrases that Greta uses is "beyond absurd" - applies perfectly to Brexit, which will/would be a climate change disaster.

The biggest factor in climate change is our Sun and we are quite a way from having a thermostatic control of it.

I would prefer more focus on environmental responsibility than on fear mongering. If you tell half the population of Blackburn that in 20 years the local climate will be similar to Carcassonne now, they will just shrug and say "happy days" or more likely "where the hell is Carcassonne?"

I have coached several environmentally savvy juniors but they tend to be in the minority. Living close to a few schools and a big high school, the attitude to littering for example is poor. I've asked kids to pick up wrappers dropped only yards from a bin, only to have abuse and/or laughter in return.

We used to wrap a chippy tea in old newspaper, now it's served in polystyrene trays, which find their way in to hedges, rivers, canal...

As Oracle touches on, when I used to do the Saturday shop my food was packed in paper, either bags or wrapped. Now they are in tape-sealed polybags, or shrink wrapped in to plastic trays.

We need a better approach, but Greta's isn't the right one in my opinion.

Richard Taylor
"William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
Sid Waddell