With empire doing the sniper and now the autococker plus lapco bringing out twisters again,what are the chances of AGD and a new mag?i love mechanicals especially automags and would love to see AGD cranking out some new stuff too.:)

03-14-2013, 09:00 AM

OPBN

Chances are quite low.

What sort of changes are you wanting?

03-14-2013, 09:18 AM

RT Lover

twister?

03-14-2013, 09:29 AM

El Zilcho

Do they even have a design department?

03-14-2013, 09:32 AM

skipdogg

0.00% chance

03-14-2013, 10:31 AM

KurtPB

Quote:

Originally Posted by OPBN

Chances are quite low.

What sort of changes are you wanting?

These days if someone ordered from the factory a foregrip on the rail, clamping feedneck and if not an on/off asa than a decent standard one. Also, this is 2013, the days of sight rails and whatnot are gone, have factory hole-less rails and get rid of the extra.

These days if someone ordered from the factory a foregrip on the rail, clamping feedneck and if not an on/off asa than a decent standard one. Also, this is 2013, the days of sight rails and whatnot are gone, have factory hole-less rails and get rid of the extra.

Foregrips do come directly on the rails these days. They do not utilize clamping feednecks because they realize this is a personal preference thing that a lot of people swap out regardless. It just raises the price. Same with on/off ASAs. Current models also do not come with site rails and the rails are in fact holeless excepting for the one for the sear axle.

So I guess they already produce your dream Mag other than wanting feedneck and ASA options?

* I have heard that they no longer offer the bike style grip, but instead use a foam grip. And I think the grips are different possibly as well.

03-14-2013, 10:57 AM

KurtPB

Quote:

Originally Posted by OPBN

Foregrips do come directly on the rails these days. They do not utilize clamping feednecks because they realize this is a personal preference thing that a lot of people swap out regardless. It just raises the price. Same with on/off ASAs. Current models also do not come with site rails and the rails are in fact holeless excepting for the one for the sear axle.

So I guess they already produce your dream Mag other than wanting feedneck and ASA options?

* I have heard that they no longer offer the bike style grip, but instead use a foam grip. And I think the grips are different possibly as well.

Guess I haven't looked at AGD's website in years for anything I want but not my dream mag by any means, no. Just stating what people expect from a marker in that price range these days.

03-14-2013, 11:06 AM

dodge3500

Bring out different milled rails and body's with updated feed necks and detents.bring back y frames and matching annoed x-valves,they don't have to create a totally new marker but rather update a few things.there is a large crowd of younger folks that don't even know what a automag is.(make what is old new again)I guess I'm just being too hopeful. :-) :-)

03-14-2013, 11:19 AM

Bunny

There is really no reason for AGD to make anymore mags. I think it actually has helped the marketplace for used mags to be completely stable compared to other manufacturers out there.

Btw, we have a few really talented people working on new parts for Automags to this day. Sure its not AGD, but some of the parts are just as good.

:D

03-14-2013, 11:23 AM

OPBN

Quote:

Originally Posted by dodge3500

Bring out different milled rails and body's with updated feed necks and detents.bring back y frames and matching annoed x-valves,they don't have to create a totally new marker but rather update a few things.there is a large crowd of younger folks that don't even know what a automag is.(make what is old new again)I guess I'm just being too hopeful. :-) :-)

IIRC, it took them YEARS to finally get rid of the Y frames because they sold so poorly. There are several companies offering bodies, rails and frames already which is something that is usually handled by the aftermarket. Do Dye or Kee offer body kits or custom frames for their markers?

One area that I would strongly agree that updates could be done is in regards to colors. But then you get into what colors sell, which don't? And if you start anodizing the valves, you have to have matching bodies and what happens if people start ordering clown markers with red valves, purple bodies and green frames? So I get that aspect of it because if you make everything black, it all matches. And lets be honest, Mag are probably used more so in woodsball games than tourney, so black is probably a better choice for most.

My .02

03-14-2013, 11:28 AM

KurtPB

CCM seem to do a pretty good job with their special colors. :) This is a topic that has been beat to death, revived, and then beat to death again and again. All I have to say is that those updates are what newer buyers expect a gun at that price to have these days. I don't even expect AGD to ever get back to where they were when they had their name on the airball bunkers and whatnot, that ship has sailed. I'd just like to see them operate at a level like CCM where they do some updating along the way, offer the options(colors and parts, even if they have to be ordered and paid for before-hand) and reach out to the community.

Not to mention, true CCM markers have great resale.

03-14-2013, 11:49 AM

OPBN

I totally agree that I would love to see some custom anodizing combos available, but I can also understand the flip side of the coin from a practical business standpoint as well. With most of the colored valves probably starting to show their age, I would love to see a run of Red, Blue, Purple and maybe some Green done as well. Ooo maybe Orange. I think offering these colors and maybe making it public knowledge of who can match the ano colors or giving the dye color number(not sure if this is how it works) so that people could do their own color matching would be awesome. Don't see it happening, but it would be pretty sweet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KurtPB

Not to mention, true CCM markers have great resale.

So do Mags....

03-14-2013, 11:55 AM

KurtPB

I don't know too much about anodizing but I always thought matching a batch of parts had partly to do with who was actually anodizing the work?

And yeah, I know 'mags hold their value. Not sure if you understood what I was getting at. That they're still able to be relevant on the market, produce new products and yet their older stuff still holds a premium price.

03-14-2013, 01:06 PM

cockerpunk

1/infinity

03-14-2013, 03:03 PM

Spider-TW

Quote:

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

1/infinity

So there's quantifiable hope? :p

03-14-2013, 04:41 PM

blackdeath1k

Idk bout all new guns. But back in 95 I said I would replace my gun when I felt I was out matched. In 2000 I got a automagrt to take the place of my original mag as my main gun. Its now 2013 and I'm still using said rt. And my wife loved the minimag I got her. So I will stick with agd till I can no longer get parts for it. That being said. If my wife plays a decent amount I may have to order her one like that picture above. That all black is sexy. And light.

03-14-2013, 05:20 PM

Mobius V

/\ My thoughts exactly, I have a pair of emags and a RT Pro that pretty much take care of business and have been since 2000 :headbang:

03-14-2013, 06:52 PM

blackdeath1k

So I think agd made one giant business mistake back in the late 80s. They designed something that needs minimal upkeep. And very little in the way of improvement. Hard to make a continued major profit when something you created 20 years ago still holds its own.......quite possibly with pretty much all factory Orings.

And the twist lock barrel is still one of my favorite features. The loss of that is one reason I don't want an al body for my rt.

03-14-2013, 07:54 PM

Nobody

let see...

made a gun that was the fastest, till electros came about.

made something reliable that all you have to do is throw some oil at it once a year.

made something that doesn't chop, and doesn't need eyes.

made something even faster than anything else.

was the basis for a pneumatic mod, so that you can have a walkable mech.

the question isn't does the world need anything new from AGD, its what could possibly be an improvement on what we already have?

03-14-2013, 08:31 PM

dodge3500

Are we so old or set in our ways that we don't want a younger generation packing shiny new automags instead of some 1200 electro? I think AGD could change a few curves add a little color,keep the rock solid drive train and interchangeable parts and sell some mags to the older/younger folks np.I think it would be wonderful to see a new mag on the shelves.I totally understand we have some great folks still making great stuff for our current mags and we wanna keep our values on our mags up.I think AGD could do something in a way that its a win/win for everybody.:-) lol but I'm a day dreamer and a optimistic hopeful.:clap:

03-15-2013, 12:51 AM

GoatBoy

I feel like I've made this statement to deaf ears probably at least three times now, but the mag is a bit overengineered in some areas, and the price reflects it.

I think there are ways to make a reduced cost mag which is still perfectly functional and compatible. Forget all the stupid failed aesthetic stuff that just adds cost. Just make it a little more affordable.

Perhaps the best thing for the automag now is to just leave AGD's hands.

03-15-2013, 01:30 AM

Nobody

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoatBoy

I feel like I've made this statement to deaf ears probably at least three times now, but the mag is a bit overengineered in some areas, and the price reflects it.

I think there are ways to make a reduced cost mag which is still perfectly functional and compatible. Forget all the stupid failed aesthetic stuff that just adds cost. Just make it a little more affordable.

Perhaps the best thing for the automag now is to just leave AGD's hands.

it has. the Mini and Axe are cousins and use the same principles(Simon Stevens directly talked to Tom Kaye about using the system/principle for Empire) and Tippmann with the TiPX and X7 Phenom are direct extensions of the mag(as Tippmann talked directly with TK about using/borrowing the system).

so its not that mags are antiquated or need to be removed from AGD's hands, its just that there is no money for advertising or sponsoring a team(s) to show that the Mag is still viable as a mech or a fast gun. but when you compare it to cheap electros, where you don't have to put on pneumatics on it to make it faster, or electronics to keep in reigned in for PSP or NPPL RoF limits.

the SP lawsuit killed the Emag and there isn't a need to pursue it again. the Mag is at an interesting point where it isn't cheap, but it isn't expensive. there isn't enough want or need for a rebirth of the electronics(on AGD's end) no matter if people need to replace old broken boards. the higher levels aren't wanting the Mag, regardless the capability to keep up with the most modern guns.

so, the mag is a great idea and a fine gun, but it has peaked at a point that its not totally dead, but will take a huge effort(one that won't be made by TK) to put it back on top like it was during the mid 90's.

03-15-2013, 03:17 AM

GoatBoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nobody

it has. the Mini and Axe are cousins and use the same principles(Simon Stevens directly talked to Tom Kaye about using the system/principle for Empire) and Tippmann with the TiPX and X7 Phenom are direct extensions of the mag(as Tippmann talked directly with TK about using/borrowing the system).

so its not that mags are antiquated or need to be removed from AGD's hands, its just that there is no money for advertising or sponsoring a team(s) to show that the Mag is still viable as a mech or a fast gun. but when you compare it to cheap electros, where you don't have to put on pneumatics on it to make it faster, or electronics to keep in reigned in for PSP or NPPL RoF limits.

the SP lawsuit killed the Emag and there isn't a need to pursue it again. the Mag is at an interesting point where it isn't cheap, but it isn't expensive. there isn't enough want or need for a rebirth of the electronics(on AGD's end) no matter if people need to replace old broken boards. the higher levels aren't wanting the Mag, regardless the capability to keep up with the most modern guns.

so, the mag is a great idea and a fine gun, but it has peaked at a point that its not totally dead, but will take a huge effort(one that won't be made by TK) to put it back on top like it was during the mid 90's.

I think your entire line of thought comes straight from the 90's. It's the "the entire industry kowtows to the tournament scene" line of thought.

The Mini and Axe are both simultaneously good and bad examples. (TiPX is maybe a decent example.)

They're a good example of what happens when you try.

They're a bad example for what I'm talking about.

You're right -- "higher levels" aren't wanting the mag. By "higher levels" you're referring to tournament ball. (And what does a TiPX have to do with electros and tournaments anyways?)

But it's recball that pays the bills for this industry.

And it doesn't care about what sponsored teams are toting or whatever. Every weekend I play with people who don't give two Tippmanns about any of that. The majority of them. They do wonder about this strange gun I keep eliminating them with though.

And I think the nature of the world is such that no single entity needs to take on such a project alone now. And that include the specious "advertising" task.

03-15-2013, 07:21 AM

OPBN

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoatBoy

I think there are ways to make a reduced cost mag which is still perfectly functional and compatible. Forget all the stupid failed aesthetic stuff that just adds cost. Just make it a little more affordable.

What failed aesthetic stuff? Besides the milling on the rail, which I like, the Mag is pretty Plain Jane if you ask me. How would you make it more affordable besides farming out the machining to China so they can come back huge leaking pieces of crap? This sounds like the typical Wally World mentality that cheaper is always better.

03-15-2013, 09:46 AM

Nobody

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoatBoy

I think your entire line of thought comes straight from the 90's. It's the "the entire industry kowtows to the tournament scene" line of thought.

The Mini and Axe are both simultaneously good and bad examples. (TiPX is maybe a decent example.)

They're a good example of what happens when you try.

They're a bad example for what I'm talking about.

You're right -- "higher levels" aren't wanting the mag. By "higher levels" you're referring to tournament ball. (And what does a TiPX have to do with electros and tournaments anyways?)

But it's recball that pays the bills for this industry.

And it doesn't care about what sponsored teams are toting or whatever. Every weekend I play with people who don't give two Tippmanns about any of that. The majority of them. They do wonder about this strange gun I keep eliminating them with though.

And I think the nature of the world is such that no single entity needs to take on such a project alone now. And that include the specious "advertising" task.

well, i started playing in 97, on the scene till 2005ish and back again 3 years ago. so my views might be dated, but their are mine.

Tippmann pistol, it might not be great in your eyes, but its that or the Tiberious for a mag-fed semi pistol. not a bad place, kinda like the 90's where you had the Mags vs. the cockers.

well, there are some sponsored woodsball teams, but they don't get what little press is about for anything that they did. yet, you do hear when XSV are shooting Axes, or Impact are going to be shooting Vanquishes or Impulses for the new season. i didn't say that its the top tier but even you who aren't considering it, still call it that. but its those teams that you hear about on what they are shooting. you don't hear about any other team. which goes in to what i said about...

sponsorships: AGD doesn't advertise anymore. they don't sponsor any teams(that i know about, could be wrong) so there is no word anywhere about how great the guns are in the woods. so if recball/woodsball pays the bills where is the word on that? where are the people shooting them for the season? again, it goes to lack of money towards the advertising aspect, and no advertising anywhere.

even by your own words, they wonder about your gun, but they haven't done anything about it. we all have people come up to us wondering if our mags are ions or something else. why is that? cause people her about those other guns, and not mags.

you can have the best product in the world, but if no one knows about it, it doesn't matter how much you want to wish things to change. they won't.

03-15-2013, 10:01 AM

OPBN

Just had a really odd thought, but has anyone ever thought about getting AO "business cards" printed up? They are dirt cheap these days and you could carry a handful around with you when playing. If someone comes up and asks you about your marker, you could talk to them briefly and hand them a snazzy card with the AO address on it. People have bad memories sometimes and simply telling them the info can be really overwhelming. Handing them a card with some pics of nice Mags and the AO web address might get them to stop by and get hooked.

Just a thought. Stupid one maybe, but a thought.

03-15-2013, 10:24 AM

skipdogg

Quote:

Originally Posted by OPBN

Just had a really odd thought, but has anyone ever thought about getting AO "business cards" printed up? They are dirt cheap these days and you could carry a handful around with you when playing. If someone comes up and asks you about your marker, you could talk to them briefly and hand them a snazzy card with the AO address on it. People have bad memories sometimes and simply telling them the info can be really overwhelming. Handing them a card with some pics of nice Mags and the AO web address might get them to stop by and get hooked.

Just a thought. Stupid one maybe, but a thought.

Is a good idea

03-15-2013, 10:44 AM

Arstron

Quote:

Originally Posted by OPBN

Just had a really odd thought, but has anyone ever thought about getting AO "business cards" printed up? They are dirt cheap these days and you could carry a handful around with you when playing. If someone comes up and asks you about your marker, you could talk to them briefly and hand them a snazzy card with the AO address on it. People have bad memories sometimes and simply telling them the info can be really overwhelming. Handing them a card with some pics of nice Mags and the AO web address might get them to stop by and get hooked.

Just a thought. Stupid one maybe, but a thought.

I would go one step further and add a few agd dealers/custom shops address on there as well. Perhaps with some MOTM winners on the back.