New 9mm search advice.

I'm starting research into a new 9mm handgun. It will technically be my Wife's, but it will be used by both of us and carried primarily by me as she doesn't feel ready to carry yet. Now before everyone unloads on the "let her pick it" train, I plan to. I just need an idea of where to start and what to handle at the LGS. My wife doesn't have the attention span to just start pointing at and picking up half the guns in the case.

Desired specifications: preferably 9mm but not going to rule out other options. My wife is 5' 9", strong, and has had no trouble dealing with recoil thus far but has only shot 'up to' a 9mm so far. She doesn't like 'small guns' and requires a 'full size' grip that will accommodate all three supporting fingers. She MIGHT consider something along the lines of a sub compact with an extended grip but doubtfull. The absolute MUST HAVE in her book is a manual safety. High capacity 15+ rounds preferable but not required. Lastly price: we are trying to stay under $600, the lower the better within reasonable quality limitations.

So far I plan to look into a Taurus 24/7 and a Beretta PX4 storm, any input on these would be appreciated.

I want a Springfield XD9, she liked the feel of them and how they shoot but the lack of a manual safety is holding her back.

CZ 75C, S&W M&P9 w/manual safety, are just a couple I would own. Actually owned a CZ 75D PCR, but you want a manual safety. Go rent some at a local range, se what you/she likes.

carbonyl

January 10, 2013, 05:08 AM

ruger sr9 or sr9c

What he said. :D

Fire_Moose

January 10, 2013, 05:24 AM

Kahr cw9 or the steel one

useless signiture

Centurian22

January 10, 2013, 05:55 AM

Unfortunately there are no ranges / shops that rent anywhere in my area, potentially none anywhere in my state (Maine). Though one LGS is in the process of building an on site range, just doesn't help me anytime soon.

Thanks for the recommendations so far I'll be looking into them.

Pilot

January 10, 2013, 05:57 AM

CZ-75 Compact, all steel, manual safety, DA/SA

http://cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-75-compact/

Used Browning Hi Power, all steel, manual safety, single action

Beretta 92C (compact version of 92FS)

meanmrmustard

January 10, 2013, 07:09 AM

CZ-75 Compact, all steel, manual safety, DA/SA
You had me at CZ.:)

Hunter991

January 10, 2013, 07:32 AM

You said you want to eventually carry. You are aware a full size gun doesn't conceal we'll right? If you plan to conceal I would go smaller and lighter.

Kahr cw9 - more of a full size grip but thin enuf to conceal
M&P shield
Bersa 9 for cc

All of these are great options.

bannockburn

January 10, 2013, 07:36 AM

1) Ruger SR9c
2) CZ 75 Compact
3) Beretta PX4 Compact

You could also look at the CZ P-01 which is a DA/SA design with a decocker instead of a frame mounted safety. It's the same size as the CZ 75 Compact. The Beretta might be the softest shooting of the three in that it uses a rotating barrel system which by the way it operates reduces recoil somewhat. The CZ might also feel like it has less recoil because it has a steel frame and weighs a bit more than the other two. The Ruger is the lightest gun, weighing in at 23.4 ounces. The Beretta is next at 27.3 ounces and the CZ is 32 ounces.

snooperman

January 10, 2013, 07:53 AM

Ruger SR9c

Teachu2

January 10, 2013, 11:18 AM

Sig P2022 in 9mm.

MedWheeler

January 10, 2013, 11:36 AM

Yet another nod to the SR9 by Ruger.

This site is a few years old, and some newcomers have arrived in the field since, but there's some good reading on it:

www.best9mm.com

Houser52

January 10, 2013, 11:42 AM

Kahr P9

DAO, compact, lightweight, smooth trigger, reliable and the slide is not to hard to pull back.

David E

January 10, 2013, 11:45 AM

Forget anything with a DA/SA trigger system. This includes the Beretta, Sig, CZ and others.

The M&P and XD are both available with a thumb safety. The M&P has 3 sizes of grip inserts she should try at the store.

climbnjump

January 10, 2013, 11:53 AM

The M&P and XD are both available with a thumb safety. The M&P has 3 sizes of grip inserts she should try at the store.

The M&P compact 9 has 12 rnd mags and the mags w/ the pinky extension will allow all fingers to be supported. It would be somewhat easier to conceal than the M&P full size if that is a concern.

David E

January 10, 2013, 11:59 AM

The M&P compact 9 has 12 rnd mags and the mags w/ the pinky extension will allow all fingers to be supported. It would be somewhat easier to conceal than the M&P full size if that is a concern.

Not really. The 12 rd mag makes the butt is nearly as long as the standard size. It's not difficult to conceal the full size M&P

climbnjump

January 10, 2013, 12:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by climbnjump

The M&P compact 9 has 12 rnd mags and the mags w/ the pinky extension will allow all fingers to be supported. It would be somewhat easier to conceal than the M&P full size if that is a concern.

Not really. The 12 rd mag makes the butt is nearly as long as the standard size. It's not difficult to conceal the full size M&P
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Um, notice I mentioned "somewhat easier" to conceal. The barrel/slide of the compact version is still smaller than the FS model. I have and do carry both the compact and FS versions, so I do know the difference and for me, the compact is "somewhat easier" to conceal.

Your (not you're - see how I worked that in there?) mileage may vary. :)

Centurian22

January 10, 2013, 12:17 PM

DavidE: why the dislike of DA/SA?

newglockguy

January 10, 2013, 12:23 PM

Check out Sig Sauer they make some goods models in the 9mm

Zeke/PA

January 10, 2013, 12:37 PM

A resent addition to my arsenal is a Ruger P95.
I love it!
Nuff Said!

marb4

January 10, 2013, 12:43 PM

I have a Ruger SR9 and Beretta PX4 (full size). Both are excellent guns. The Beretta is one of the smoothest and softest recoiling 9mms I've ever shot. My wife is 5'3" and has no trouble handling the Ruger either. Can't go wrong with either.

psyopspec

January 10, 2013, 12:46 PM

You are aware a full size gun doesn't conceal we'll right?

I've never found this issue insurmountable.

TarDevil

January 10, 2013, 01:03 PM

Ruger SR9c
^This

Furncliff

January 10, 2013, 01:09 PM

CZ 75b, it meets all your criteria and the women in my family like it. Bonus is the availability of the Kadet conversion kit . I use my Kadet upper a lot, being able to practice with cheap ammo in your full size, full weight, same controls, same trigger weapon is a real plus. Time to switch uppers ... ~15 sec..

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8472/8120577651_9df7098544.jpg

Dryft

January 10, 2013, 01:26 PM

Centurian - Good luck with your search up here in Maine! The only thing you can really do up here is go to as many stores as you can and handle them.

In my search for the same sort of thing, I narrowed it down to two - a commander size 1911 in 9mm, and the CZ75 compact or a variant thereof. (The Canik C100 is getting wicked reviews.)

Good luck!

And remember to check Uncle Henry's.

ExTank

January 10, 2013, 06:12 PM

Definitely give the CZ's a fair chance, but I'd recommend the Walther P99AS. (http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/handguns/germany/hg14/1287735191.jpg) Can easily be had for less than $600 with a bit of shopping.

Outstanding ergos, changeable backstraps on the grip for different hand sizes, and an excellent trigger out-of-box.

David E

January 10, 2013, 10:45 PM

DavidE: why the dislike of DA/SA?

Since you state the gun is ALSO for your wife who doesn't "feel ready to carry yet," I surmise that she's not really into guns.

The problem with DA/SA systems is that it requires the shooter to do something (decock) to render the gun safe after shots are fired, but there's still ammo in the gun. THEN, on many designs, the shooter is required to do another thing (un-decock) to allow the shooter to fire again, should it become necessary. The Sigs remove the second required act, but not the first.

Likewise, SA guns that require cocked and locked carry are poor choices for folks not really into guns. They require the safety to be taken off prior to the shot (but not too soon!) and require the safety to be reengaged to make it safe.

Taking off safeties at speed, decocking, un-decocking, etc, are not instinctive acts.

Now, both of these action types can be mastered, but it takes a bit of dedication to do so.

If your wife IS into guns and/or excited about learning how to shoot, then disregard the above.

But if she's not, a DAO or typical striker fired gun (since I presume a revolver is out) would be better choices.

Pilot

January 10, 2013, 11:01 PM

You had me at CZ.

Yeah, but you're easy. :D

Preacher.

January 11, 2013, 02:59 AM

I have a Ruger sr9 full size and absolutely love it. Super accurate, very thin, easy to carry, and great reliability. I also have the beretta Px4 storm in full size, but it is 40 cal, however, I love the storm as well. If I had to vote for one, it would be the Ruger. You wouldn't regret that purchase. iMHO.

tigeroldlone

January 11, 2013, 03:39 AM

My vote is for any of the Hi Power clones ie FEG PJK or the Arcus 94. Anyway, I believe the Arcus 94 is a single action.

Update:
Kahr CW9 is out, only 7rds of 9mm... No. Really liking the CZ 75b so far, excuse the noob question but what keeps it from being a 1911? It appears similar in most ways to me. Ruger sr9 seems good as well. My brother in law has a M&P9, I like it ok, not overly exited about it but couldn't say why, just a feel thing. The Walther P99 seems to be a possibility but appears to run more expensive than many of the other options with no clean benefit in return for the higher price. M&P shield is out for capacity reasons as well. I guess I should have clarified definitely NO less than 10+1 really prefer to stay over 15.

As for concealing, I'm 6'1" 210lbs, thus far not a fan of IWB, generally carry OWB but would consider shoulder holster. Maine allows open carry, not that I plan to, however this grants me the luxury of not be slapped with "felony brandishing" or any such nonsense if I do print or my jacket flies open. The full grip requirement, and wife's preference for a 'big gun' in her words, are more important. When she conceal carries its likely to be in a purse or potentially jacket pocket if the gun would allow. When we put hands on some guns we'll see if she likes any of the compact models with a full grip.

The wife enjoys shooting but I wouldn't say she is "into guns" certainly not the way 98% of us on here are. But she understands and is willing to train and perform the practice needed to be confident with her gun of choice. She will carry with one in the chamber, hammer down safety on. This is her personal choice / blend of quick enough and still safe. This leads me to prefer something DA/SA or striker fired as, in my opinion, all I want to (or want her to) have to accomplish is draw and turn the safety off. I'm sure we will refine and narrow this down as we handle and learn together.

Tigeroldlone: I'll check those out, however as I've never heard of them I'm cautious.

Dryft, I frequently scour Uncle Henry's but the wife really wants new. She is cautious of 'buying someone else's problems'.

The CZ 75 and Ruger SR9 seem to have the popular vote lead at the moment. We have a .22 that we use but the option of a .22 conversion is appealing for cheap practice on the exact same platform.

Thanks to all for the input and information, keep it coming.

Dryft

January 11, 2013, 08:52 AM

There's a gun show in Augusta on the nineteenth and twentieth - I believe at the Civic Center.

I know I will be there!

Definitely something worth attending, if possible.

Centurian22

January 11, 2013, 10:34 AM

Wish I could. I miss it by 3 days. Not getting home till Jan 23rd (work out of state).

mgmorden

January 11, 2013, 10:59 AM

Ruger SR9 is a good choice if you can find one. The simplicity of most striker fired guns is great. The trigger pull is consistent from shot to shot, isn't so light that you need a safety to carry it, but its not so heavy that your accuracy goes to heck.

Though I won't be getting rid of my DA/SA guns, after having owned a few striker fired ones I seriously doubt I'll ever look at another DA/SA again. The "partially cocked" hammer fired guns though like the Beretta PX4 Storm C-model or the upcoming Walther PPX look fine. Same trigger behavior as a striker fired gun but with a bobbed hammer.

Fire_Moose

January 11, 2013, 08:59 PM

If she wants to carry one in the pipe, hammer down, safety on, the cz is out. Safety only engages on a cocked hammer.

Also I don't think there is a decocker with a safety.

I'd reccimend a decocker model gun so she isn't manually lowering the hammer.

But in my humble opinion, safeties get people killed.

useless signiture

Pilot

January 11, 2013, 09:18 PM

If she wants to carry one in the pipe, hammer down, safety on, the cz is out. Safety only engages on a cocked hammer.

Maybe I missed it, but why would she or anyone feel the need to carry a double action first shot pistol with the safety on? It is just like a revolver DA, and needs a long, first DA pull before going SA. As you note it has the flexibility to be carried cocked and locked, but many if not most carry at the half cock postion where it is designed, which gives a DA first trigger pull.

The decocker CZ's, decock to the half cock notch and also have no safety as they are also carried in DA first shot mode.

meanmrmustard

January 11, 2013, 09:26 PM

Maybe I missed it, but why would she or anyone feel the need to carry a double action first shot pistol with the safety on? It is just like a revolver DA, and needs a long, first DA pull before going SA. As you note it has the flexibility to be carried cocked and locked, but many if not most carry at the half cock postion where it is designed, which gives a DA first trigger pull.

The decocker CZ's, decock to the half cock notch and also have no safety as they are also carried in DA first shot mode.
This.

But, lets say she wants a heavier 9mm, manual safety, double stack, compact, hammer fired that allows for a loaded chamber, on safe, with the hammer down...all for under $600?

Canik 55 Stingray C. Problem solved.

Tcruse

January 11, 2013, 10:08 PM

The manual safety is really something that you and your wife need to think about. In the case of an emergency that requires a gun, it is one more thing to remember in that typical 2 seconds that you have before you are lost. Also, safetys have a bad habit of getting caught on clothing and hosters, meaning that they are in the wrong position when you need them. I have guns with a manual safety/decocker and Glocks. I really like shooting some of the guns with external hammer, external safety, and nice soft/light single action trigger. However, I would never depend on them enough to carry. Glock is my choice and the choice of many others. I highly recommend the Glock Gen4 9mm guns (26/19/17). There are lots for really good guns to choose from that have internal safeties,

Centurian22

January 11, 2013, 10:54 PM

As always I appreciate the input and I COMPLETELY agree with all above statements about the safety thing. I have tried and tried and ..... TRIED to get all of these points across to her but she just isn't budging on this one.

Fire_Moose: thanks for the heads up on the CZ! That is unfortunate as I have taken a liking to it. I'm hoping I might be able to use that fact (with one in my hand at a gun store) as a potential teaching tool. "See hunny, you can't even put the safety on unless its cocked. That's how safe it is all on its own in 'double action mode'" I can tell y'all right now that has a 98% failure expectation but who knows. If I can show her enough guns like this proving just how uncommon (and in most responsible gun owners mind completely unnecessary and bordering on unsafe for defensive purposes) the type she wants is, maybe she'll give a little.

Tcruse: in her words "I wouldn't own a Glock if it was the last *(colorful adjective)* gun on earth." I'm not quite that passionate about my distaste for them but I am not a fan on many levels. I tried to explain the internal safeties thing to her but her hang up is "But if you pull the trigger it goes bang" to which I reply "THAT'S the *(colorful adjective)* POINT!". Her reasoning is the "What if you tripped and fell and your finger slipped into the trigger guard and pulled the trigger" and she's worried about "what if we left it out by accident and one of our kids friends finds it (because our kids will be trained properly to leave it alone and come tell us)". Basically she's going to grasp onto that .0001% chance of what if and hold on for dear life. She takes pride in being the most stubborn person either of us knows.

She is also using the "I've been very supportive of your shooting hobby (which he absolutely has), this is the one thing that I'm asking for, please respect it." I wish there was a way that I could convince and explain to her the dangers of her 'requirement' and the completely safe alternatives.

Meanmrmustard: I'll check that one out but I'm again cautious where its not a name I recognize. If all else fails she will probably settle on / accept the M&P9. I'm going to fight my hardest to sway her just over the line to an XD9 instead but we'll see.

Fire_Moose

January 11, 2013, 11:01 PM

LOL. Women.

useless signiture

meanmrmustard

January 12, 2013, 06:38 AM

Canik makes Turkish CZ clones. They're top notch in all areas, and have some parts compatability with CZs. Check them out.

Dryft

January 12, 2013, 06:39 AM

I know this a topic that has been rehashed ad infinitum on this board, but it seems like we're getting back to the same thing that always happens - this is a gun for HER, not anyone else. All of us who carry have very specific wants and needs in a carry pistol, why shouldn't she?

If she wants a safety, let her get a safety. If she wants it chambered in a caliber that is only available from one store on the third Thursday of the month, let her shoot that caliber. If she wants a pink frame and a iridescent purple slide, why not?

Point being, it's her gun. And if it doesn't work for her after a while do the same thing everyone else does: sell it and try again.

I would highly recommend she check out the website corneredcat.com - it's a very good site written by women for women who carry and want to protect themselves.

Good luck, and I hope she finds something she enjoys! And make sure she joins THR - I'd certainly enjoy hearing her opinions on her search.

Centurian22

January 12, 2013, 07:16 AM

Meanmrmustard: looks like a good fit to the desired specs. Now if only I can find one anywhere local to put hands on.

Dryft: thanks for steering this in a good direction. The wife and I are hoping to find a gun we both like (partially for financial reasons, and mostly because she doesn't want to have 'lots' of guns). I will see if she'll check out corneredcat, I had heard of it before but hadn't thought to point her towards it. I'll also pass on that her voice would like to be heard on here, though I don't know if she'll join, it's worth asking.

Kiln

January 12, 2013, 07:29 AM

Meanmrmustard: looks like a good fit to the desired specs. Now if only I can find one anywhere local to put hands on.

Dryft: thanks for steering this in a good direction. The wife and I are hoping to find a gun we both like (partially for financial reasons, and mostly because she doesn't want to have 'lots' of guns). I will see if she'll check out corneredcat, I had heard of it before but hadn't thought to point her towards it. I'll also pass on that her voice would like to be heard on here, though I don't know if she'll join, it's worth asking.
Academy has the Canik pistols for sale for around $350 so if you've got one of their stores nearby that might be the way to go. I bought the C100 and it is definitely a quality piece in my opinion and well worth the price.

Lighter than a solid steel gun (aluminum frame), small enough to carry but large enough to get a good grip on, good trigger, and it has great ergonomics just like the CZ75B.

I have both the CZ75B and the Canik C100. Both have been amazingly reliable and are both very comfortable at the range. If the warranty makes a difference to you, the CZ has a 5 year and the Canik has a 1 year.

The Canik is a very high quality pistol with good fit and finish. The aluminum frame feels as light as polymer and surprisingly the recoil isn't bad compared to the steel framed CZ75B. One thing that you might like is that with the Canik, the safety can be engaged when the hammer is down, although there's no reason to because of the design being completely safe with the hammer down on a round, it is still an option.

Pilot

January 12, 2013, 08:12 AM

The HK USP series enables DA carry at the half cock notch, or hammer fully down, WITH the safety engaged if she wants that. The HK USP or USPc (compact) are very nice pistols, but you'll be spending a bit more.

Centurian22

January 12, 2013, 08:37 AM

Kiln: thanks for the review and comparison. Unfortunately no Academy's in Maine. I wish they would buy out and take over Dick's SG as I will never walk through their door again.

Pilot: I do like HK's but from a quick glance online showing $750 and up for the USP (translating to $850 or $900 local I would guess) puts it above our budget. Definitely worth looking into if finances greatly improve but doubtful the wife would want to spend that much.

allin

January 13, 2013, 10:00 AM

Hi

I have a XDm 9mm, a PT92 9mm (waay too big fo CCW) and a High Point 9mm. I do not have a Taurus 9mm, but do have a Taurus 24/7 Pro 45 ACP. The Taurus 45 is actually a good size for CCW and I have found it to be incredibly reliable for the past 6 years. The XDm 3.8 9mm comes in a compact with a grip extension which gives you the best of both, range gun and CCW. I own around 11 various handguns and tend to buy what I like to shoot and carry. Beware of gun snobs. Try as many as possible and get what is right for you and your wife. My wife shoots also and is very proficient, she tends to prefer 2, 3, and 4" revolvers, and does very well with them. So, all of that to say (again) get what works for you and your wife.

David E

January 13, 2013, 11:18 AM

She likes to self-sabotage. ("But what if this, this, that or that or this or this happened??? THEN what?")

Is she really on board with this idea?

The Ruger SR9 or 9c would be good choices. But I'm getting the sense that she needs HER gun whilst you get your own.

Infidel4life11

January 13, 2013, 11:34 AM

S&W M&P 9mm, Glock 19 that would be my picks my wife has both.

alan

January 13, 2013, 11:55 AM

Centurian22:

As has likely been mentioned, you might well consider the original CZ-75. They are a full size 9mm pistol, classic double action, that is double action for first shot, single action thereafter. They have a "thumb safety" ala the 1911 design and can be carried either hammer down on a loaded chamber, chamber empty, or "cocked and locked". They are also all steel and weigh about 32 Oz. The standard magazine holds 16 rounds + 1 chambered if desired. CZ makes first class firearms.

Phil W

January 13, 2013, 12:51 PM

Bersa Thunder 9 UC. Always fires, use saved $ for ammo.

Buck13

January 13, 2013, 01:25 PM

A mostly uninformed vote for the SIG 2022. Feels great in my hands and decent trigger dry-firing. Bargain price, and lots of people on-line like theirs. No place near me rents one, unfortunately. A few months ago, I heard a guy a few bays down at the range going on and on about his. When I was done with my lane, I went over to talk to him about it. He offered to let me shoot it but claimed to be out of ammo. After that, I bought a couple of boxes of cheap 115 gr FMJ and keep one in my range bag, just in case this happens again!

Centurian22

January 13, 2013, 02:29 PM

David E: She is on board with it but I completely understand how it comes across... trust me. She just has it wedged in that stubborn mind of hers that it has to have a manual safety and it has to be used, and anything less is unacceptable. You may very well be right that we have to each go our 'separate ways' on the gun choice. I certainly have no problem with that option (more guns the better) but she wants to keep the gun count (and cost) down as much as possible.

Buckeyeguy525

January 13, 2013, 07:31 PM

As many have said the Ruger SR9c is a great option. However the manual safety on it is very small ans difficult to quickly click on/off. The M&P has a thumb safety option that is much more pronounced like a 1911 and would be much easier to sweep off during the draw stroke. That would be my vote

meanmrmustard

January 13, 2013, 07:36 PM

Manual safeties on DAO pistols are like teets on a boar hog.

Centurian22

January 13, 2013, 07:46 PM

My biggest hang up about the M&P9 is the hinged trigger. I much prefer the bladed design. Though being a minor discrepancy the M&P9 is in the running and is the only gun on our list that we have access to actually fire.

M&P 9c for compact. Add a full size mag and Xgrip sleeve for full capacity. That way you have a good concealed gun if you want.

You'll get used to the trigger.

TarDevil

January 13, 2013, 11:17 PM

As many have said the Ruger SR9c is a great option. However the manual safety on it is very small ans difficult to quickly click on/off.

I do not find this to be the case. The safety functions well, easy to use, big enough to find yet small enough not to get in the way. I've never had the slightest problem getting if off running drills.

As mentioned before she doesn't like two tone, I tried other 1911's with black sights or black grips and all 'clashed'. But this one she really likes. Now I get to do some research on 1911's.

Oddly enough, I've been able to field strip one since I was 7 (thanks to my Vietnam era Marine Corp father), but do not know some basic details. Are most if not all 1911's single action only? On most if not all does the hammer have to be cocked for the safety to be on (irrelevant if they are SAO). I want to be able to accurately explain the controls and features in detail to my wife. If SAO, then there is no need or the Safety to be on as "when you pull the trigger it won't go bang". I did explain SAO to her and she doesn't like the idea of having to cock the hammer on the first shot.

I am now taking recommendations for 'entry level' 1911's under the $800 mark. The wife would like to stick to 9mm as she doesn't want to develop or worry about flinch from higher recoil or the additional cost of ammo. IF possible DA/SA, potentially decocker. I will be doing lots of research into all of this myself but always love the experienced input from all of you.

Thanks once again.

Edited to add: Are the sights usually replaceable on 1911's? I plan to have to purchase the pearl grips separately and potentially replace black sights with bright steel or nickel.

David E

January 16, 2013, 09:58 AM

The proper way to carry that for defense is cocked and locked. IE; chamber loaded, full mag, hammer cocked, safety on.

otasan56

January 16, 2013, 10:00 AM

Glock 17 or 19

Dryft

January 16, 2013, 10:20 AM

Chrome finish Canik C-100.

Everything she wants.

Centurian22

January 16, 2013, 10:50 AM

David E: I'm aware that is the 'common' way to carry a 1911. However, the 'proper' way to carry any gun is the method in witch the carrier feels most confident. Your statement also didn't address any of my questions above.

Otasan56: see above statement from wife: "I wouldn't own a Glock if it was the last *(colorful adjective)* gun on the planet." I'm not a fan either. They don't feel right (to us), and I have a huge problem paying a primium price for a handgun that has design flaws including a hole in the grip that allows dirt, lint or other foreign matter directly into the trigger group, and using .40 cal springs in their 9mm guns leading to FTE stovepipes if the round isn't hot/heavy enough and grip isn't perfectly solid. I'm glad they work so well for so many but they aren't for us.

Dryft: looking into it now, thanks for the sugestion. If only we could put hands on one. Unfortunately I won't be able to attend the Augusta show, hope you enjoy it and find what you're looking for.

David E

January 16, 2013, 11:05 AM

No, the proper way to carry a 1911 for defense (keywords: proper, carry, defense) IS cocked and locked. There are other ways, but they are improper. (substitute the word "proper" for "smart" if you wish)

No, the safety won't engage with the hammer down.

No, there isn't a factory made DA version of the 1911, tho several custom smiths have come up with DA mechanisms fitted to a 1911. Most notably, Seecamp. Don't know if they still offer it.

She won't like cocked and locked and carrying it any other way for defense just isn't smart.

P-Dog

January 17, 2013, 10:27 PM

Have and carry the XD9 for several years. Love it! The safety is solid. A manual safety, in my opinion, is easier to unintentionally switch. XD with the palm & the trigger safety requires 2 points of contact to operate. With a disciplined trigger finger, it's all good. If in a "situation" the safety is quickly turned off by the natural movement of unholstering and engagement of the trigger.

otasan56

January 18, 2013, 10:03 AM

David E: I'm aware that is the 'common' way to carry a 1911. However, the 'proper' way to carry any gun is the method in witch the carrier feels most confident. Your statement also didn't address any of my questions above.

Otasan56: see above statement from wife: "I wouldn't own a Glock if it was the last *(colorful adjective)* gun on the planet." I'm not a fan either. They don't feel right (to us), and I have a huge problem paying a primium price for a handgun that has design flaws including a hole in the grip that allows dirt, lint or other foreign matter directly into the trigger group, and using .40 cal springs in their 9mm guns leading to FTE stovepipes if the round isn't hot/heavy enough and grip isn't perfectly solid. I'm glad they work so well for so many but they aren't for us.

Dryft: looking into it now, thanks for the sugestion. If only we could put hands on one. Unfortunately I won't be able to attend the Augusta show, hope you enjoy it and find what you're looking for.
I just thought to suggest . . . .

mike@gunshopps.com

January 18, 2013, 10:10 AM

I have had The CZ-B and D. Very nice and will not break the bank.
the warehouse is in Kansas City KS. They also own Dan Wesson
and the point man series is quality at it's best. More expensive than the
CZ D which like all CZ'z has a double stack mag.

mbruce

January 18, 2013, 02:12 PM

Otasan56: see above statement from wife: "I wouldn't own a Glock if it was the last *(colorful adjective)* gun on the planet." I'm not a fan either. They don't feel right (to us), and I have a huge problem paying a primium price for a handgun that has design flaws including a hole in the grip that allows dirt, lint or other foreign matter directly into the trigger group, and using .40 cal springs in their 9mm guns leading to FTE stovepipes if the round isn't hot/heavy enough and grip isn't perfectly solid. I'm glad they work so well for so many but they aren't for us....

I'm just going to throw this out there...

1) Glock may not feel right because of your improper grip. Watch Robert Vogel hold a Glock -- that's how you hold a Glock.

2) If you are concerned about debris and lint entering into the "hole in the grip" then you might as well pass on that Miami Vice 1911 Pearl Grips b\c that purrty little thing won't even like dust mites floating in the air...and shooting it outdoors will blind you or others at the range shooting near you.

4) I always smile when i pull lint from my pockets. I'd probably get a bigger smile pulling lint out of my glock

if you want credibility to your posts you don't bash one of the most popular handgun makers of all time...and especially don't bash glock then go post up a pic of a Miami Vice 1911.

Centurian22

January 18, 2013, 02:40 PM

Well after pairing sugestions from this thread with as much research as I can do from a smart phone, We have our list to take around to the gun stores to handle. It doesn't seem like a 1911 will be a great match. The top runners are, in no particular order: CZ-75B, Beretta92 or M9, Ruger SR9, and Taurus 24/7. I'll be looking at stainless models where available. I liked the Canik's but don't expect to be able to find them in local stores, and even online availability (especially of the c-100) seemed pretty scarce and I'm not talking about 'in stock' either, just had alot of trouble finding them even listed anywhere.

Thanks again to everyone for their input and I'll report back (or possibly in a new thread) after some hands on research occurs.

Dryft

January 18, 2013, 03:02 PM

Good luck Centurian!

Centurian22

January 18, 2013, 03:22 PM

Mbruce:
1) This may be true, I was unaware that glocks required a special and different grip. This only furthers my personal dislike for them but out of curiosity I will follow up on this as I have a friend with two glocks that I can try this with. I do not object to training of any form, however I would rather purchase something that naturally 'feels right' and comfortable to my wife and I as opposed to having to learn to like it.

2) Having almost no personal experience with 1911's I appreciate this info but could you cite a source (even if its personal exp) for this. I was under the understanding that 1911's have been one of the most reliable handguns in existence, hence their popularity.

3) The gun in question is my father-in-law's 25th anniversary Glock 17. I / he never chose to use .40 cal springs. Upon having problems he contacted Glock and learned that THEY used .40 cal springs in their 9mm gun! My apologies for not being more clear about this. I also never said anything about FTF, it was an FTE. They would provide the proper 9mm springs if asked but my complaint is if I spend over $600-700 (because it was the 25th anniv) or even $400-500 for a 9mm handgun I should not have to contact the manufaturer and get them to send me the right parts that I then have to install myself. I don't reload for 9mm (yet), I was refering completely to factory ammo as that's all that was used in this gun. I prefer light to medium loads for anything I shoot but here in lies the problem: 115gr 9mm FACTORY ammo was not 'powerful' (or heavy) enough to reliably cycle the action. Yes it worked 90% but again buying brand new and paying a primium I demand better than 90% performance ESPECIALLY from a carry gun.

4) I'm not suggesting that pocket lint would be likely to cause any problems (I would be worried about dirt, twigs, or other debris encountered in the woods of Maine) as I know glocks are proven in their overall reliability and longevity. I'm suggesting that it seems utterly ridiculous to me to have this flaw especially after 4 generations of the gun! Why should I have to spend more money on an aftermarket part (slug plug) to fix a design flaw that should have been fixed by the manufacturer?

Lastly I was never "Bashing" anything. I merely quoted my wife's statement and because they had been listed multiple times, despite never fitting my original post of requirements in the first place, respectfully (unlike certain replies) stated why I do not care for them. I posted the pictures of the 1911 because it is something my wife indicated interest in as this is a dynamic and changing search where she has never purchased a centerfire handgun before. Her (and my) preferences were the major purpose of this thread in the first place. I respect the choices of others to carry what works for them and for many people that is a Glock, good for them, it's not for us. I ask only that others extend me the same respect (though that appears it may be too much to ask for).

Stop trolling and in the future please refrain from clutteing my threads unless you have something to positively contribute to my questions. Thank you.

Centurian22

January 18, 2013, 03:24 PM

Otasan56: I appreciate your input and I'm glad that the Glock works for you. Apologies if I came across as abrasive.

Dryft: Thanks! Enjoy the Augusta show, let me know what you find. Good luck turning up a Canik.

mbruce

January 18, 2013, 03:57 PM

Stop trolling and in the future please refrain from clutteing my threads unless you have something to positively contribute to my questions. Thank you.

Not about the questions per say but I'd get your FTE checked out because that shouldn't be happening.

meanmrmustard

January 19, 2013, 07:31 AM

Good luck Centurian!
Did the Augusta show happen yet?

Centurian22

January 19, 2013, 09:50 AM

Augusta civic center Jan 19-20 Sat 9-5 Sun 9-2 $8

ExTank

January 19, 2013, 11:01 AM

2) Having almost no personal experience with 1911's I appreciate this info but could you cite a source (even if its personal exp) for this. I was under the understanding that 1911's have been one of the most reliable handguns in existence, hence their popularity.

The 1911, as originally designed, was meant to be a "loose" service weapon capable of getting dirty, taking a beating, and keep on working. It had reasonable accuracy for a military service gun, and with a very little tuning, could be a fairly to very accurate shooter.

The problem (as I understand it, mostly from reading here on THR) with some makes and models of the various 1911s on the market are tolerances being too tight in an attempt to obtain near "custom-level" of accuracy on a standard production gun.

And WRT your comment on the price of the P99 a few pages back, I just picked up yet another P99 AS, NIB, for $530 all in. With the fairly heavy trigger pull of the DA mode (non-cocked striker), it should satify the missus' safety concerns. The ergonomics are superior to most guns, and you don't have to worry about whether you have the proper "Glock Grip" on your Walther.

If you've been doing on-line research for any Walther P99, I don't doubt that the price seems a touch high. Every Walther I've bought has been from the LGS, and hasn't run much more that $560 for my PPQ a few months back.

TarDevil

January 19, 2013, 06:59 PM

I do not object to training of any form, however I would rather purchase something that naturally 'feels right' and comfortable to my wife and I as opposed to having to learn to like it.
My son came to my back yard range last weekend to shoot his G26, acquired after selling his XD45c (don't ask me why). He was all over the target with his first magazine. Before he reloaded, I handed him my SR9c and he shot a nice tight group, commenting "That sure feels a lot better." He added, "I'm sure I'll get better with the Glock when I get used to it."

Not bashing Glocks, but if they don't feel and shoot naturally from the start, why not start with something that does?

Glocks ARE great guns...for those who like he ergos. For the rest... buy something else

Esoxchaser

January 19, 2013, 07:55 PM

When one mentions a 9mm pistol that will be used at the range but may well become a carry piece in the future, I think of the Springfield EMP.

Dryft

January 20, 2013, 08:47 PM

Mustard & Centurian - Just so you guys know, the Augusta show was a loss. No ammunition, and limited handgun inventory with less than impressive pricing.

Certainly no Caniks!

Centurian22

January 20, 2013, 10:20 PM

Sorry to hear it was a bust. Glad I wasn't home to waste money on the gas to be let down. Lets all hope for a return to normalcy soon.

meanmrmustard

January 21, 2013, 07:06 AM

Mustard & Centurian - Just so you guys know, the Augusta show was a loss. No ammunition, and limited handgun inventory with less than impressive pricing.

Certainly no Caniks!
Bummer dude. I'm sorry to hear that.

Find a model, review the crap out of it, find videos, look at weight, parts availability (CZ mags are impossible to find now) and maybe just order one that suits you. I'm not a fan of impulse buying, but that's what I did. I got to shoot the P07 and K100, wasn't a huge fan, and ordered the Stingray shortly thereafter. It's been great.

What you experienced at that show is seemingly the norm.

otasan56

January 21, 2013, 09:34 AM

No problem C22!

otasan56

January 21, 2013, 09:35 AM

Otasan56: I appreciate your input and I'm glad that the Glock works for you. Apologies if I came across as abrasive.

Dryft: Thanks! Enjoy the Augusta show, let me know what you find. Good luck turning up a Canik.
No problem C22!