Wish I had a suggestion... I do know what it feels like because my H and I were in that place the last few years. I could go through all the events that led to the change and still not be able to really put my finger on why it changed. Maybe it happens in small, imperceptible steps that finally lead up to an Aha moment. I know I am very lucky and feel deep Gratitude for being in the place I am now with my H. He took a leap. I had backed off and then when I could be silent no more, I lovingly but categorically drew my line in the sand. Moving forward without therapy was not an option. And when he did take that step, everything for us began to change. I think he also got lucky to find a therapist that he connects with.

My best to you Running... Hard decisions, but sometimes, when our life looks the bleakest, all of a sudden it turns around. I hope that sometime happens for you this time.

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I am not your rolling wheels, I am the highwayI am not your carpet ride, I am the sky- Audioslave

Running: Honestly, some days, I'm not sure. I had made the decision to leave but was waiting for my husband to return from an extended business trip. He had a particularly bad night, called, and we navigated that dark and awful night together instead of apart.

I think in part, my H hit rock bottom. I think for myself, I pulled myself out of his situation and was able to just listen and not react. To hear him out instead of trying to fix everything for him. I think we both realized we were dangerously close to losing each other and pulled together instead.

I'm not going to lie and say it was all us because in some ways, it just feels like simple luck. There were so many ways that fateful night could've gone wrong.

But my H has little by little grown into a place where he can contribute to working on us instead of always spinning in his head over his own problems. I think I have lowered if not eliminated my expectations of a normal marriage. Nothing about this situation is normal, so I can no longer expect normal fixes to our extreme problems. I was clinging to some idea, fantasy, and once I let it go, I was better able to take care of me, and consequently, us.

I wish there was something more concrete I could tell you. But it's as simple as this: there was an opportunity for it all to fall apart for good, and we some how managed to not fuck it up. It was a small victory that we now build upon. Everyday.

Wow. That's really tough to hear, Running. I know many ways which my partner and I have not been there for each other. I am always acutely aware of how it relates to our abuse (easier for me to see in her than her in me and vice versa). Hard to think of things getting to that point, as they often do in the world.

I would say this, though, to you, and in response to Valkyrie. I'm a big fan of giving up on mass-culture, but don't fool yourself that most of the world is "normal." You might be unique (much less so than I think you think) an you are special, but my humble opinion remains egocentric.

It is the rest of the world that is crazy.

I think it must take a crazy culture to rape a quarter of our children and not discuss it. (I could go on, environment, genocide... but that would be "political"). Maybe this gives you comfort. If you're not "normal", at least you're "in the real" of a tough time. I hope that he is strong enough to come out. Sounds like y'all are not there, yet. How have things been going lately?

Running: You've gone as far as I would be willing to go under those circumstances. While I have been through the normal run of the mill with my H, I cannot say that my physical safety is at risk. My emotional safety was, for quite some time, but I regained control and my H somehow really did recognize what he was doing and has been working to change that. We have severe trust issues, but I think we can rebuild with time. It sounds as though you have given it all and faced ever diminishing returns. You ARE NOT WRONG to take the action you have. Be strong. Best of luck.

RoE. Stick to your guns. Pufferfishes analogy resonted with me as well. A couple weeks ago my therapists said that H and me were like two boxers who had finally quit throughing punches but weren't ready to take our gloves off. It sounds like in your case you a finally putting down your sword. I think this takes a lot a strength but wisdom as well. Keep posting

Keep yourself and your kids safe and don't let him convince you that you are the villain. The villain in this piece is the monster(s) that turned him into a man that is so broken that he cannot treat you better...

I'll be praying for all of you.

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I guess what I'm trying to sayIs whose life is it anyway because livin'Living is the best revengeYou can play-- Def Leppard

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