Talk:Church of Scientology collected Operating Thetan documents

From WikiLeaks

Link to summary:http://www.spaink.net/cos/essays/robinson_summary.html
Bittorrent is recent, since 2006. Since the documents were stolen in 1983 they have been available on 'secret' websites and widely distributed on CD. The mass media likes to claim they are still 'secret' so it can repeatedly write exclusive revelations about them!
The Church of Scientology has no consistent policy on the documents. It claims copyright on them whilst simultaneously saying they are faked or altered.
--Hartley Patterson 02:22, 26 March 2008 (GMT)

I believe in Wikileaks as much as anyone, but if this document, "written by L.Ron HUBBARD" as yu say, is copyrighted, then
wikileaks is, perhaps, vulnerable to a suit over it.

As wikipedia says, no copyright material on wikipedia is allowed.

this isn't wikipedia.

this is the internet

noone can hear you scream

tonight we dine in clearwater

For A group that claims to have such important information about our past and our souls sure wants it all hush hush... Most groups that have information like this want it to be known either for our sake or theres. Either way, if this information is real and they want to keep it from us unless we pay or it isn't real and it's all about money, how can they expect me to care about their copyright rights at all. Information is knowledge, and I have the knowledge to stay away from these people and care not for them.

Scientology's OT documents

Readers of Scientology's OT documents should realize that while LRH would have written the original version(s) in his day--the OT materials have been edited and revised numerous times over the years by CofS officials, specifically through the Senior C/S Int's office, RTRC (Ron's Technical Research Compilations). For example, specifically OT V--many of the materials were written by Ray Mithoff, Dan Koon, Sue Koon, and revised by David Miscavige. Parts of OT VIII have also been changed--compare the original materials and mentions of Jesus Christ to the latest version(s).

One of the many reasons CofS tried so hard to keep all the docs confidential under threat of expulsion and sp declare is so that people wouldn't talk about content and compare differences and similarities betwen the versions. Church members, who choose to remain trusting of their leaders and therefore remain oblivious of the truth about the lack of "standard source" materials, would never know this because they maintain their pledge to confidentiality, and therefore, their naivity and oblivion.

It's only people outside of that bondage who realize that there is no such thing as "pure source materials." Were the members to actually catch onto this, the Scientology empire would crash. Why do you think church officials encourage members to put a filter on their computer to "weed out" the "lies" about Scientology being told on the Internet? Just another example of how Scientology promises total spiritual freedom but actually gives total spirital bondage.

OT 8?

Previous revealed text for OT 8 (e.g. Fishman) have been generally accepted as either fraudulent, or as an early version no longer in use. No OT 8s that have left the Church have provided or confirmed any OT 8 source text as yet. If this text can be confirmed, it's a major advance in Scientology scholarship - David Gerard 10:45, 29 March 2008 (GMT)
I beg to differ. several OT8s have left and talked about their OT8 readings.One such member said that he had been told the "old"version of OT8 and was unfamiliar with the "new" version. It was still in use when he left in 2007-8

An Ex OT8 on the Wikileaks hosted OT PDF specifically

I can only comment on the levels I did and they all look authentic except for "The New OT8" which I have never seen before. L10 looks correct. L11 and L12 I don't know.
The Superpower process is out of date as Blowforgood carefully explained to us last week. He would be good for some authentifications too.

Michael Pattinson OT8

(Everything below is quoted from a post on enturbulation.org)

For Enturbulation.org and Wikileaks:

I have been asked to add to public understanding of the Scientology level of OTVIII which I did in 1990. I believe this should be done to avoid widespread misunderstood words (OTVIII, for example) which, according to Hubbard would breed hostility if not clarified fully.

The end result of OTVIII (as released in a public document-video deposition in the case Pattinson vs Miscavige et al.) is "Now I know who I am not and am interested in finding out who I am".

That is the top, the summit, the pinnacle and ultimate enlightened reality of the Bridge to Total Freedom advertised and sold by Scientology. There is NO higher level of attainment in Scientology even 18 years after I did the level. Promises of OT9 and 10, which have been paid for (around $10,000.00 per person) by hundreds of Scientologists have never been delivered.

The only version of the entire OTVIII procedure I have seen is by Ariane Jackson and she was very courageous to have posted it in a time of extreme fair game. Her account describes also what I did on that level, and it is small but missed nothing of relevance. I have not wanted to post the same description so that Ariane's courage will get its due recognition.

The Hubbard letter referring to various highly controversial statements such as the Christian Jesus being a pedophile, etc was not on the OTVIII level that I did, nor on the one Ariane did.

When I did the OTVIII level it was subject to EXTREME high security, with loyalty, ethics checks, contribution factors, background checks ad nauseam. The actual materials were stored in a library-courseroom with alarms and guards on the doors with swipe-card entry after personal invitation only. When we went to get our study packs they had a cord with a plug on them and we had to get to our table and plug it in within 30 seconds or alarms would go off.

In high contrast to this security overkill, the materials were utterly bland and virtually content-proof. There were a few pages (6 or 7?) in the whole pack for the actual OTVIII process. One of them was a 1 line page with a definition which was already in the non-confidential "Hubbard Technical Dictionary", i.e. "red herring". This (as can be verified more precisely by another contributor?) simply said that mental image pictures (note; these are the entire focus of all of "Dianetics") were just a red herring and should be ignored as of no importance. I know that this info will not thrill all those folks who paid for Dianetics over the decades but Hubbard said it, not me.

It seemed to me (though I would not even have thought of complaining after all the trouble I had to get onto OTVIII) that something big was missing from the course and level. In the "Bridge" from "raw meat" (Hubbard's term for new recruits) to OTVIII I had heard of a lot of outlandish science-fiction style claims by Hubbard and claims of super human powers being attained by OTs. So, as OTVIII is the first actual OT level (I-VII are Pre-OT levels) I was honestly expecting some meat and potatoes. Instead of an OT data banquet there was only the remnants of some formerly whole pretzels and cold coffee. I felt I had missed the buffet.

I can only speculate as to what was taken out of OTVIII to make it such a lame scam. Jesse Prince has affirmed that the "Fishman doc?" was a valid Hubbard writing, so that would fit the bill of "hot content" that may have originally been part of the real OTVIII. In any case David Miscavige told us that OTVIII was so sensitive (it's title was "Truth Revealed") that it COULD ONLY BE DELIVERED ON A SHIP. So Scientologists were coerced to pay for a $35,000,000.00 ship back in 1985-86 for this super sensitive stuff. The OTVIII I got could have been delivered in a local coffee shop, folks.

Go figure...

The publication
__________________
"All those billions of dollars and no OTs to show for it. Epic Fail."
Yes, I did OT8. Long story; www.lermanet.com/michaelpattinson

Thank you, WikiLeaks for posting the O.T. Levels!

Red Volume XIV

I thought Red Volume (ie. The Technical Bulletins of Dianetics and Scientology) #14 was for HCOBs from the years 1981 - 1982, not the OT levels?

The Scientology lawyer who sent the letter to Wikileaks asking for it
to be removed is called "Ava Paquette"?

Really?

Is that some kind of joke, or a fortuitous satirical critique on the
nature of the CoS?1.0.22.53 10:35, 14 April 2008 (GMT)

yes, seems to be correct. a google search for the lady clearly shows she has been involved in quite some scientology based lawsuits (http://www.scientology-lies.com/people/ava-paquette.html). Moxon & Kobrin in general is Scientology-focused and from what I know all partners are also staff members of the church. Kendrick Moxon actually is a former OSA member when it was still called "Guardians Office", working with Mary Sue Hubbard. He was also the one providing false papers to the FBI in Operation Snow White. Leaves one wondering what kind of scamming criminals are allowed to practice law in the US - Wikileaks through Olle. Olle 18:21, 15 April 2008 (GMT)

Does it not seem weird that this legal demand email to the Wikileaks website to remove the Scientology documents is from ampaquette@aol.com ? Surely the lawyers would have a @*company*.com domain or whatever? Ive got enough spam emails from rediculous things like tonyblair@hotmail.com etc!!!Ah she is lieieng then herself. If she says that it is a perjury and her company ar looking into it yet the e-mail adress is what you say, she is not acting on of her company's behalf, and therefore she is lieing and namefagging a law firm, not representing it.

Nope, that's how it is. "Lurk Moar," as they say in Chanology. --1.0.22.53 06:22, 15 November 2008 (GMT)

The PDF files: scientology-ot-levels.pdf has been hacked

It appears that after the word got out about the cult papers, someone has hacked the PDF files so no one else may view them. Both the primary and alternates sites have damaged files.

Are you sure about that? I can view them fine. It's a heavy PDF, weighing in at 613 pages, so maybe it just hasn't finished downloading on your end.

How to download The Scientology "secret" Bible

After not being able to use the links listed on the page, I spent about an hour on the Internet trying to find this document. As it turns out there is a secondary "https" site that mirrors the ones listed. It took a few minutes but I was able to download the entire file at https://secure.wikileaks.info/leak/scientology-ot-levels.pdf (please copy and paste into a different Internet Explorer window)

All links presented on secure.wikileaks.org are working, have always been and will always be. All claims of corrupted documents or similar are local browser and/or connection issues by users. In case of larger files we suggest to download and save them (right click on link, save target as) locally if in-browser viewing is giving troubles. The domain above works also, yet might produce a security warning/error as it forwards to secure.wikileaks.org and the certificate is not valid for the .info domain. Wikileaks

It takes awhile to download the file, but I can vouch that it's still there and downloadable from all links listed on the top of the page. SCORPION 21:10, 12 November 2008 (GMT)

SPAM from an AOL e-mail address

Very funny that the 'legal letter' was an e-mail received from an AOL e-mail address.
Does this mean that neither scientology nor the law firm representing them have their own domain name?

Scientology has thousands of domain names, as you can see right here on Wikileaks. And yes, Ava Paquette is one of their top lawyers. She uses AOL. --1.0.22.53 06:25, 15 November 2008 (GMT)

jibberish

I tried to read it but it's all jibberish. what a load of crap.
what the hell is this guy talking about. I thought I was reading an old work manual written
by a schizo....
I say if they want it it taken off due to copyright let them have it... ITS CRAP

- It's written using scientology's own terms and internal language. Essentially this serves to make it sound authoritative to those within the church and also to exclude those outside. It may be gibberish, but it's gibberish that people mistakenly pay thousands and thousands for and that scientology bases it's entire existence on. Scientology uses these to justify it's actions and abuses. It's incredibly important that these are available for all to see.

Doing These Levels

The purpose of these levels is to increase one's spiritual abilities and nothing else.

These abilities can theoretically be many.

Including the possiblity of "flying out the window to Paris" while remaining a student on the level.

Hopefully, somebody got it.

Having just finished reading these leaked documents and performing the actions demanded by them, I can safely say that they actually work and I can now fly into the air at will. I am forever indebted to Wikileaks for making this mystic document freely available. 1.0.22.53 11:17, 29 March 2009 (GMT)

typical scientology bullshyte

You shouldn't expect anything else. Be careful guys. Scientology will screw you into the ground if you let them. If they sue you, don't waste time hiring a lawyer. Just claim harrassment and superfluous lawsuit. Maybe in California you might need a real lawyer, because there even the judges(never mind New York)) are a bit potty), but most of the rest of the world is wise to what they are up to.

Providing an alternative legal service for copyrighted material

If somehow WikiLeaks were connived into removing this document -or say, any other material due to copyright claims- it would be valuable if it continued to provide a page that had meta-information about the document and especially its MD5 hash. Don't forget that it's still legal to talk about copyrighted material, and it would also be legal -even if you weren't distributing material- to confirm or deny that if someone else had a copy through another channel, that that copy is a copy of the legitimate document as you know it. (MD5 Hashes)

Even with the document being served it would be great if the MD5 signatures were shown, it would safeguard the document in the future and rectify any claims of "hacking".

The SHA256 hash, which is superior, is shown. Wikileaks content isn't going anywhere and never has. Wikileaks 04:25, 9 September 2008 (GMT)

Copyright status on the OT documents?

So, can anyone actually confirm the copyright status on these documents? I'm wondering if manual distribution via CD is legal or not. If it's not, does anyone have viable alternatives? After doing some research, I'm not sure what these documents would be classified as under copyright law. According to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/102.html it seems that one can't copyright ideas and concepts. So, assuming these documents ARE copyrighted, would it be possible to convey all of the ideas expressed via rewriting the documents? I'm looking for a legal distribution route. This might not be the right place for it; but, any help is appreciated.

Under American law, pretty much anything that can be written down in form, as long as it is clearly a piece of work, as opposed to a statement of ideas, is automatically copyrighted as the creator's and is subject to laws of distribution and the like, but does not automatically gain recognition outside of court. However, the copyright codes listed do present valid documentation - I found the copyrights for OT II, OT III, and various NED for OT(S) documents, with the latest dating to 1987.

Importantly, it is known that there have been extensive alterations made to the material, which essentially renders the copyright voided, as it does not likely apply to the current documentation, and also is an infringement upon the original copyright. Strictly speaking, unless the Church Of Scientology had clear permission to own, distribute, and alter these documents, then their claims are unlikely to be valid. Of note, is also the fact that the documents are considered unpublished - I'm not sure how this affects such a status on alterations and distribution.

Personally speaking, I don't really think it matters as long as you keep to a small scale (ie. personal friends only) and refrain from sending it to anyone who would be concerned about such legal issues. That's not a recommendation, though. Of course, personal possession of the document I see as no legal infringement, and due to freedom of speech, reading it out aloud is another option. Another thing that I have to say, is that to place a copyright on church doctrine is like trying to place a copyright on the Bible. It's simply ridiculous.

I am not so anonymous

I have had enough of your attacking my religion, fouling it up with untruths, inconsistencies and just plain hate.

If you dont like Scientology just go mind your own business. If you are trying to foment an incident of some sort sobeit.

I am prepared to fight for what is right and what is mine. Stop your maddness now before it gets worse.

The Attacks on Scientology are paid for and only advocated by those with an axe to grind or who want to hide the truth.

And what is the Truth? That Dianetics works and works well, as does Scientology technology.

Only neanderthals would continue to fight this new step in evolution.

All this wiki is doing is putting the truth that you claim we want to hide out there--L. Ron Hubbard's methodology, the nature of the various OT levels, etc. If you don't like it, feel free to ignore it, but you should probably ask yourself why your religion, charged with upholding the truth and saving our planet, is so adamant about refusing to let people know exactly what it is.

It is my guess, from the style of writing and terms used that the initial "I am not so anonymous" statement is not written by a Scientologist or is written by a pre-Clear or Clear.