Some more.... Finer Moments... to go along with the Roxy Material. The curiosity of the many roads that lead to Inca are all over this one. I can only wonder how many roads were traveled from the time of this recording in May of 1971 to when Frank metaphorically opened said Old Curiosity Shoppe when he mastered the Finer Moments tapes in June of 1972. Ponty would soon join FZs band, Inca would develop. I would expect there are far more items in the shop than what we first hear in an early recording of Inca Roads that appears on The Lost Episodes. While a number of fans do at times point to a number of early development motifs to Inca Roads I find it a bit puzzling that The Old Curiosity Shoppe has not gotten it's deserved attention.

The barking tone of FZs guitar, Ian Underwood' Solo and the drumming of Aynsley Dunbar. This has me thinking that this would be a wonderful exploration for ZPZ. The more I listen to Finer Moments, I am hearing some arrangements that are quite suitable for the current touring lineup. Unfortunately I never got a chance to hear FZ perform live in that early 70s period. If Dweezil and the band could so please to open The Old Curiosity Shoppe, that would be one amazing journey down an early road to Inca. Seemingly FZs concept was not for this composition to become an antique kinda place. He was chissleling away. One popular item of the times was Chariots Of The Gods. It's was seemingly about imamgination of how to get there and not just an old tape collecting dust. It took quite a number of decades for the Officfial release, but it was in the can so to speak. It's another look into the many roads to Inca.

I think he's got two girls just like Dweezil. I betcha' he planned it that way too!

Are you saying Trendmonger's girls are man-ish, or do you mean Dweezil is girly-girly?

Titoney's loin droppings all have beards and great legs! How would I know? They all wear short shorts just like dad does! So the beards just sorta' pop out at times! Oopsy! DZ's kids are nice lookin' Estrada bait!

I think the kids should be off limits. Nobody can help who their daddy is.

So who draws the lines? The Mommy's? I never wanted kids, though I've thought about adoption as there's so many kids with no guidance or love as it is. Why do people think kids are off limits? I didn't bring 'em here, so why can't I joke about the mistakes of others? This will hit some of you hard but did you ever think we don't need more people pooting out more kids period? No, of course not, you have to sow your seed to prove you were here. Leave a legacy, whether you want them or not. No other reason other than self promotion and glorification in this day and age. I feel sorry for the kids with "responsible" parents, for they too will feel the need to have more kids, just like they're "responsible" parents did. Dogs, cats and kids. WTF is it with people? Scared of dying alone? Your alone in the end anyway, so why go forth and multiply like rabbits? Because some book told you too, or she'll leave you if you don't want your very own kids?Next, you'll want us never to use condoms and we can forget about abortions too! I'm not talkin' any sicko Estrada shit either. Name a kid who hasn't used their folks to some degree either. I'm for a two kid maximum for everyone. No more octomoms fer chrissy's sake!I like kids, I just don't think there "special". Deal with it, I do. I clean up after all the other's figgin' kids all the time. The kids around here all like me too. Why I haven't a clue. Maybe it's because I don't lie to them and take the time to explain things. In other words I treat them as I would like to be treated. Is that so bad?

EDIT: Last I checked, I know of no kids that read Zappa.com forums anyway...except Titoney. If you want fair play with kids, beg forgiveness and go to DZW! FZ has kids and everyone here sez something about each one of them and a lot of times it ain't nice. So when does a kid become an adult? Never if you're the dummy who had them! imho. I'm talkin' about people with more than two kids.

My need to be popular and generate laughter is not so great that I have to badmouth other people's children. You, of course, are free to make your own decision.

Fair enough from your high horse, eh "Pope"? Don't get me wrong, the kids are alright, I'm more against people having them for the wrong reasons and way too many, when so many need love right now. I wouldn't go too far out of my way to insult someone's kid, that's just rude. But I do see humour < Gary spelling just for you> in everything, so I don't put myself so high up in standards that I can't laugh at a good sick joke at the right moment and place about any subject, my cybor ZappaFreak forum friend. (formerly of DZW)BTW, I'm not that popular* and don't really need to be, to do what I like. I like me, don't you like you? Everyone wants to be liked you'd think? Some subjects seem to punch your buttons where others punch mine. That's cool that we're not all the same isn't it? That and because we're both ZappaFreaks, we've already something on the ball ahead of the rest... imo, isn't that a good thing Jimmy?

You did tell Frank Zappa's "kid" that his old man was a "bitter little man". When does child abuse stop?

My problem has never been with Trendy's kids. If anything, I feel sorry for them for having to grow up under that shithead. But except for force-feeding them Zappa from the moments of their births, he's probably not a bad father. At least he's there every day, and involved, unlike Dweezil. And who cares if I give Dweezil a little shit, huh? He's a grown man, not a grade-schooler. He should be able to take it. Besides, I called Frank "a mean little man," not bitter, and I said it to Trendy, not Dweezil. Frank was a mean little man in the same sense that you and I are mean little men. When I said it, I was trying to take Trendy's hero down a peg, not insult Dweezil. But apparently Dweezil sees Frank as God, too, and that backfired on me. So fuck it. I didn't want to be in his club, anyhow. It smells a whole lot like Scientology over there.

You are being deliberately obtuse, Kapt. You know damn well I'm talking about picking on little girls. I don't do that. If you do, you're a meaner little man than I ever dreamed of being.

Zappa was a mean little man. That's what attracted a lot of us to him in the first place. I thought he was a druggie, too. I remember sitting around with my college buddies, smoking dope and cracking up over "Dummy Up." I just knew they were smoking better dope than we were. Imagine my surprise when I found out otherwise. But tell me about the redeeming qualities of "Jewish Princess" or "The Illinois Enema Bandit" or "Crew Slut." Are there any? Uh-uh. Pure meanness...and funny as hell, too...as long as you're not the unlucky co-ed getting pumped full of Illinois bandit juice. So my statement to Trendsniffer wasn't a lie. It just wasn't stated as diplomatically as it could have been. Dweezil was looking for an excuse to throw me under the bus, and there it was. Squish!

I agree with a number of your ideas about children. Number one, we should be making a lot less of them. Women should be allowed one child each and then sterilized until the human population drops down to less than two billion. There are too many people and not enough of everything else. But that'll never happen. We will eventually drown in our own shit and kill off too many other species before we're done. I did my part. I stopped at one kid. So did my ex-wife (mainly because she couldn't find another man needy enough to put up with her). So what does our daughter do? She has three kids! Fucked up my whole master plan. Most people are dumb animals. They don't take the long view. They don't give a damn. "I got mine, so fuck you."

I could go on and on, but I won't. Too much more and someone might start calling me Trendpoper. God help us. We don't want that.

We're cool Jim, just a little clarifying was all that was needed. I think were both on the same page basically about kids. If you watched jpd's link, that's what I'm talkin' about! "Somebodies gotsta pay for all my kids up in here". She sez it like it's owed to her just for being an idjut and having so many rug rats. Shit she must have been pregnant for over 10 years to poot forth that platoon of diaper fillers! Anyway, you have no fear of becoming the new Trendyzoid here. I do think this sight is cool because we can talk about anything and not get banned for our opinions or harassed by Titoney for our pagan beliefs.(alumni) I wish the best for his kids...there gonna need all the help they can get. It's an uphill battle for them. The best revenge for them (and us) will be when they're teens and in love with a Justin Beiber type of pop flavor of the moment for that generation. It'll kill him! He might even disown them by then.Anyway, salud & peace be with you Mr. Wilson.

I love you man! AND, I'm glad your here and not on DZW where you'd be censored! Life's too short for that shit.

Spew for me, Trendbooger. Poot forth with your ineffable N'Lightenment and wisdom. In these troubled times, we can't get enough of it. Four days is a long time to make your faithful wait, O Chosen One. Please don't make a habit of it.

The only comparison are things that grow in the springtime that use fertilizer. The burdon of storing fertilizers properly is the responsability of the business. Any perception of comparison is more-so what can happen when things that can explode are not taken care of. As far as I am concerned the stuff Kapt.Kirk has been growing and promoting is a fertilizer problem.

I also have no problem stating Rutgers University had a fertilizer problem. In regards to College Education. Soils & Fertilizers can be symbolic for the growing of a mind. Unfortunately there are some big troubles there. Hopefully that institution is on the mend but their reputation is severly tarnished. Is Rutgers repuation tarsnished as much as Ike Willis & Nappy Brock? Hmmmm.

The only analogy is what can happen when you do not plant things or store fertilizers in safe ways. It fits the situation of some of what you have been so called joking about, supporting and promoting perfectly. It's a garden sycho path just waiting for the explosion to take place.

As far as the ZPZ Fall Tour. Wow, we have something to be thrilled about. Even Gail has been droping hints of late. Dweezil has never let us down. He is the man who has kept it going since 2006. I support him as much then as I do now. It's unfortunate that it took so many several tours and ZPZ breaking the one hundred arrangements mark to feel confident. Yet some still yearn for Alumni. No matter what Dweezil has ever done I have always enjoyed on a very high level. I look forward not only to the Fall but so much of what he has planned. The common element is Zappa more-so than any alumni is for Frank in 2013. As far as I am concerned far too many alumni are either dead or have little to nothing to offer. I just can not groove to some of those cats anymore. That's just me.

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