No Screaming Babies ALLOWED!!!

In the latest burst of anti-kids-in-public news, a North Carolina restaurant is making headlines with signage that does not quibble. “Screaming Children Will NOT Be Tolerated!” read signs at the the Olde Salty restaurant in Carolina Beach, N.C. And while some parents have expressed concern that they are singling out disabled kids, most patrons have responded well.

Brenda Armes, the restaurant's owner, told the local NBC affiliate, WECT, the clearly stated message has been good for business. "It has brought in more customers than it has ever kept away," she said.

It's one more line in the sand(box) by adults who believe tolerance of cranky, crying, noisy (or quiet-breastfeeding) kids has a definite limit when they are around on a plane, in a restaurant, in a bar.

In Brooklyn, N.Y., the bar Union Hall took a lot of heat from parents/customers when it attempted to ban strollers. But the Double Windsor bar near Park Slope still followed up with a decision to ban babies after 5 p.m. As New York Magazine's Daily Intel reported, they did so with humor in signs that read, in part, that though the establishment is quite sure their customers' babies were "really mature for their age," they are just not old enough to legally drink alcohol. One "BAN KIDS FROM RESTAURANTS!" Facebook group has sprung up with 162 members. Even attendees of the Coconut Grove Arts Festival, it seems, had negative opinions about all of the strollers with kids in them at the Miami event.

Up in the skies, a recent poll by Skyscanner, a fare-comparison website, found that almost 60 percent of travelers would love it if airlines demarcated a families-with-children section on airplanes, meaning they would love to sit in child-free zones. And, nearly 20 percent of travelers said they would rather fly on completely child-free flights, period.

All of which begs the questions: Are people becoming more intolerant of kids, noisy or not, in public places? Or are more parents who bring their kids with them everywhere tuned out to how their sometimes noisy offspring may be affecting those around them?

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Just when I think I've heard it all?? Good god. Keep your teething brat at home. Why do you think your fevered slobbering child wants to be on display anyway?

People aren't intolerant. People/parents are becoming more ignorant. Self entitled assholes determined to inflict their kid on everyone.

Trust me, your angel is no angel. You chose to have a child, the people in restaurant may have kids, but either their kids are better behaved or were left at home and they do not need to hear your kid.

I am so sick of this bullshit. Everyone expects a child to cry but its the parents who think the crying doesn't bother anyone else and lets it go on and on and on and on.

I give every parent a couple of minutes to try and quiet or soothe their kid but when that doesn't happen GET RID OF IT. yeah you heard me. Evidently you suck as a parent a decent citizen so get rid of the kid and get a dog.

I think this thread ties into the Going Childless one. Even on this thread, we've seen mothers post about their right to go out.

Yes it is your right to go out with your children.

It is also everyone else's right in society to not be subjected to your child while out. A fussy child most will ignore < that is not the issue. If your child is pitching a fit then yes you should be the courteous one and leave. It doesn't matter if it's a restaurant, a grocery store, a theater, etc. Anywhere in public where your child is ruining the ambiance for everyone else YOU should be the one required to leave.

I do not understand why this is a hard concept to grasp. It is not rude for everyone else to expect to have a good time while they are out. If YOUR child is ruining it, that is YOUR problem, not everyone else's. Be kind and leave. I have done this on many occasions over the years with all of my children.

I honestly don't know what's wrong with people that they can't understand this. I agree with Lindsay; it seems people were absent the day common sense was passed out. Sheesh.

How did you guess Jessica? LOL Mother of the year - I get that award all the time.

I'm sick to death of people thinking "hey I paid for my movie ticket too, my kid is allowed to scream during the movie."

I'm sick to death of "hey my stroller fit through the door, so infants must be welcome in this restaurant."

Frankly they're not.

If there was a grown man sitting next to you as a restaurant sobbing and shitting himself, would you think "AWW!!! He just needed to get out too!"

I got out PLENTY with my babies. We went to better rated restaurants. But if the babies showed a sign of being fussy - I LEFT THE RESTAURANT until the child settled down. If the baby showed no sign of settling down, we just went home.

I NEVER took my child to an adult movie. Why? My kids were uber laid back, never pestered me during movies at home. But then - at home - I didn't see it as pestering.

Jessica - I'm guessing you're one of those parents who thinks they're entitled to ruin everyone elses night because you shoved a human being out your vagina. Well, I'm here to tell you that YOU'RE WRONG. Frankly I like your kids a helluva lot less than I like you. Which isn't much at the moment. I love my own kids, I love my friends kids, but "other peoples kids" always turn out to be snot face wailing brats who barely qualify as human. Now I see why. They've got THOSE parents standing behind them cooing "oh darling!! You just learned to scream!! Atta girl!!! Keep it up!!!" No matter where they are.

I'm so glad I have discerning taste and the restaurants I frequent take care of their customers.

OH and to the person who whined about loud belligerent adults.... those people are asked to leave my favorite dining facilities too. Ya' wanna be rowdy and drink it up? Theres' a honky tonk just down the road.

All people are asking is for parents to be considerate of other diners and there are those freaks out there claiming its their right to inflict their squalling brat on everyone else.

No screaming kids? Perfect!!!! I hate screaming kids. If my son screams we remove him from ______ where ever until he is done having his fit (thankfully he's fairly well behaved...most times lol) There is also a difference between LOUD children and SCREAMING children.A family section on planes? Hell yes. (maybe with cheaper prices? lol ^_^ )I don't think the general public is becoming more intolerant; I think more stupid parents are letting their bratty children walk all over them, and everyone else. Honestly tho, those horrible children are few and far between, but it still gives our children a bad rap. I think parents feel too entitled; "so what if I have kids? I'm still going to take them to this 5 star restaurant while they're teething. I'm allowed to."Some people just don't use common sense anymore.I took Brooklynn to the theatre this year (she was 3 months-ish) and holy did I get a bunch of nervous glances! She was fine thru the first act, but started getting antsy at the beginning of the second. So I left the theatre. Yeah I didn't get to see the rest of the play, but who cares? If I was there without kids I wouldn't want to listen to a screaming baby either. Yes we moms don't have to live in a cave for 18 years, but we still have to be considerate.

Its kind of ironic, ban the noisy children when its the parents that are the problem ! We took our 1 year old on a cruise recently, and their is no where to escape to when your child has a tantrum at the dinner table. We handled her like a well oiled machine. We ate dinner at an appropriate time for her, kept her busy with food and when all else failed we held her or left the restaurant. I can hand on my heart say she never once interrupted the enjoyment of any other passenger. I just didn't allow it !

The parents are the issue, not being responsible for their kids and often not even timing the outing correctly !

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There are several fine restaurants in my town that will ask you to take your child outside if your child is crying, or to leave if your child is being too unruly--leaving his seat, spilling food, yelling, etc.--and have signs displayed to that effect. That is just common courtesy and they should not have to post a sign, but many people these days are just so rude and inconsiderate, that the signs are a necessity.

I am very glad that we have several places that do post the signs. (I make sure I choose one if I make plans for a childless evening). I do not feel like they are asking us to say home until our child is old enough to know how to act, they are simply insuring that one loud guest does not ruin the evening for the rest of their patrons.

We have TONS of great, family friendly restaurants here. If you want to take your child to eat AND are not willing to leave if they become loud, then choose one of those. The restaurants mentioned above do not BAN kids, they ban loud, ANNOYING kids.

EW! Some people are so anti social when it comes to their kids, like they think other people deserve their shit. But yeah anywhere we've been for tea there hasn't been any disturbances except we took Tamara's kid out to the tavern for lunch and she is 3 and some random 6 year old punched her in the face in the playground area.

It hasn't happened often but it has happened. The woman who changes the shitty diaper AT THE TABLE. - at applebees. Screaming kid crawling under tables because they don't want to feel better, what ever that means @ applebees

I was at work and I had to leave an aisle because the kid smelled so damn bad I was nearly puking. I raised 3 kids and never had an issue with shitty diapers, but this kid... omfg.... I went up to my boss and said "i'm not going back there until you fumigate the aisle." I've already ranted several times about the numerous squalling kids. I am beyond shocked at the number of people who think its ok to just let their kid scream and scream and scream.

I heard our security guy found a dirty wadded up diaper hidden behind some artwork.

We have trashcans, we have changing tables, we have bathrooms... someone still shit in the changing room - I'm not kidding. They didn't tell anyone their kid had accident - our sales people who found it think it was either a very large child or an adult. All I know is that I do not get paid enough to clean up stuff like that. The store manager & assistant manager had to do it.

My point is - people are nasty. These nasty people have kids. They are raising their kids to be just as nasty as they are.

I had to delete this long bit about one of our regular customers. One of these days that bitch will do something legally actionable.

Anyway - suffice it to say people are crazy with what they expect other people to put up with.

MOST people do try to handle their kids appropriately. MOST people try to be considerate of those around them. But there are so many people who don't care.

The woman who took her 2 to 3 yr old child to see the "The blind side" at the movie theater. I haven't been to a movie theater in years because we always had a small kid in tow. I hadn't seen a movie for myself since Wild Wild West with Will Smith. Yeah look that one up. The FIRST TIME I go to see a movie for an adult with adults and these assholes bring a toddler who whines, kicks our seats and talks throughout the movie. I wanted my money back. They ruined my entire experience. I hope that bitch and her fatass momma get hit by semis.

lol...don't get your panties in a wad Crissy, no one is suggesting that kids not be allowed on planes or in restaurants. Read the friggin' OP for crap sakes. I think that the common opinion in this thread is that kids have their fussy moments and sometimes annoy the crap out of others when they are in public. The solution is either to take them away from the public for a short time to cool down, or leave altogether and try another day. In your feeble attempt to give a quick tongue lashing for the opposing viewpoint, you haven't even considered the fact that if a child is experiencing a fussy moment or an all-out tantrum in public, then perhaps it is in their best interest to remove them to a private place where they feel comfortable. Children are small and vulnerable and although they are human, they don't always have the ability to reason and rationalize their behaviour if they are tired, scared or upset.

There are lots of public places geared toward families, but that doesn't mean your kids can behave like neanderthals and run rampant all over the place, screaming and carrying on. And just because we are parents doesn't mean we have to be on the side that opposes certain restrictions on children in public. When parents get an evening away from their children, they don't want to be bombarded by a barrage of screaming, crying children at the table across from them. I've been in a restaurant, late at night where children were running around like crazed animals--NOT COOL. And I've also been in a restaurant, where children sat quietly and talked at a normal decibel and enjoyed family time. These businesses are simply asking for some courtesy on the part of patrons with children, and I don't think it's asking too much. I think it's mighty ballsy of any parent to insist their child be allowed to interrupt an entire restaurant full of customers for the sake of their right to be in public.

As a mom of two, who are now 20 and 17, I think that there are places where children are welcomed and there are some places where children should not be. Even when my kids were young, there were some restarants I would NEVER have taken my children because quite frankly, they didn't belong there. When I go out for a nice dinner, I truly do not want to hear a child screaming and/or crying...plain and simple. And I felt this very same way when my kids were young. I see nothing wrong with it at all!!!!!

I was so mad when i heard this. children are human just the same as adults, they may throw a fit once in a while but come on so do all us adults, we have just learned there is a place and time for everything. if you can not take a child out to a restaurant, or on an air plane how do you expect to teach them the right way to behave? to all the people who feel they need to eat or fly free of children need a good whopping,sounds to me there the ones throwing a fit in public.

I think there is just an unspoken code of which restaurants to take your kids to. Really expensive restaurants are somewhere people go when the kids are being babysat. Sizzler and McDonalds are places where kids love and go for birthdays and stuff. They shouldn't have to make signs or rules about it.

Seriously who's kids scream that much when they go out anyway? I've been going out for dinner most weeks since Logan was born and the kids there just sit in their high chairs and eat and then colour in their colouring books while their parents talk. There hasn't even been a time when other people's kids annoyed me.

My poor baby had an ulcer on her tongue last week. We taught her how to chew on one side of her mouth, but sometimes it just wasn't enough to keep the food off her ulcer. Normally in that situation we wouldn't have taken her out to eat. But my husband and I were out running errands together (and of course baby was with us) and it was lunchtime and we weren't done yet. So we chose a family restaurant to eat at. Eliza got down a few nuggets, but that dern ulcer got the best of her and she started crying. I calmed her after the first time. But the second time it happened, we wrapped up the food and finished eating in the car.

Yes, as a mother I understand babies and toddlers cry. But nobody should be subjected to it if it is not their child. I can't stand hearing other kids cry and pitch fits while I'm in public. Why would I expect others to tolerate my crying child?

I took my middle daughter to the movies until she was around 6 months old. Until then, she would usually sleep through it, but if she woke up and got fussy I would stand off to the side (by the door, but where I could still see the movie) and rock her. She was fine and if she had continued making noises I would have left the theatre completely. Then she got to 6 months old and wouldn't quit talking aobut everything! lol. Now we take our kids to the drive-in and they can talk all the want without bugging others :)

i will say that the running around in the restaurant thing is annoying....i have given the death stare for that one...having your child run around and play hide-and -go seek behind my chair..yes happened, was annoying..the second time he ran to my chair, i said hey guy, moms over there and pointed him in her direction...and when i looked up she looked at me as if i am supposed to want her child latching onto my and my family's chairs and bumping into us while he runs around eating his french fries..so i gave her the are you retarded, yeah i did it and what stare?..that is just too much to handle..i can sympathesize with some crying..but that i can't do...

I don't think these restaurants are asking too much. I think they are being blunt about the fact that they don't want screaming children in their establishment. I won't take my son to a fancy, adult restaurant right now because he has found his "I'm gonna scream and I don't give a damn" voice, and I'm not about to try and sit through a meal with his inappropriate pitch and lack of volume control. There are plenty of places to take children for meals and there are plenty of public places where kids can run around and scream to their heart's content. I don't believe one of those places is a pub or a restaurant that is not set up for family outings.

And people that bring their kids to an adult movie ....GAH! NOT COOL--EVER! I have been in a movie theatre where someone brought a small child. Luckily the baby slept through the movie, but if the baby had begun screaming or crying I would have definitely walked out and demanded a refund of my movie and probably never gone back to that theatre again. There are just some places that kids should not go.

I think parent's allow their kids to scream and yell when, in years past, they didn't. A baby will cry. There is not a lot you can do about that, but a toddler, a young child, a teen (yah, I have seen teens pitching HUGE fits in stores to get what they want)If you are on a plane with a parent of small children, you can add to the problem, or add to the solution - help her/him! Entertain the kid .... distract the kid .... One in my family had to fly with her three (all under the age of five) and two people on the plane (grandparents) helped her the whole flight. They held the baby, played with the toddler .... it was an easy flight and could have been a nightmare.

We have 3 kids and 2 of them are under 3 years old. We go out quite a lot and I have only had to leave because of tantrums twice. If my kids are screaming, I take them outside. If they do not calm down in a reasonable amount of time, I tell my hubby and go to the car with the kids while he gets to go boxes and the check. Like I said, we've only had to go to that extreme twice (I've had to take them outside more than that, but they most usually calm down and we can go back in and finish our meals - I've actually had both waitstaff and patrons thank me for stepping out).

I wish some parents were like that, but unfortunately a lot aren't. I think it is fully within the restaraunt's rights to ask parents of screaming kids to leave (and to post signage saying they will do that). Like others have said, I don't want to listen to other kids screaming while I am out. It doesn't matter if I am out with just my hubby or with our whole family, I shouldn't have to be subjected to another person's child having a tantrum or running around while I am trying to enjoy a meal. I don't allow my kids to run around our house while we eat dinner, so why would I let them do it in a restaurant?

Meghan - I do not mind happy screaming. It's the obviosly-pitching-a-fit-to-get-attention screaming that annoys me. I LOVE when babies are that happy. Saying that, my youngest screams so loud it can hurt eardrums when she's extremely happy (my mom was on the phone with me once and my youngest did a happy scream and my mom thought it was microphone feedback in the background - to give you guys an idea...) and if she starts to do that in a restaurant I will take her out until she can calm her happy-level down :D

Of course if my kid is pitching a fit I will take him outside to calm down or leave all together...it's not enjoyable to ANYONE. But luckily I have never had that happen. J is the kid he screams and makes noise in pure excitement...is that annoying to everyone else? (Not a cheeky question, it's an honest one) Is it as annoying if it's a happy scream and not excessive?

ok, so when i read about this yesterday it was on my aol homepage, and it was an opinion piece about this. i didn't actually read this article, my bad. i was going off of the opinion piece thinking it was the same as the link provided, it was not. basically in the other piece (that i can't find now of course) it said that people with kids shouldn't be allowed in restaurants and ALL the comments below basically agreed with that. that's where my confusion came from. whoops!! THAT is what i think is fucking ridiculous, not saying to control your child. of course people need to control their child, that's just simple courtesy.

Seriously Jessica? LOL you're a hormonal bitch (your words) and therefore allowed to inflict your uncontrollable self on the rest of us!? BAWAHAHAHA now I see where you get your mindset that everyone else in this world must tolerate your uncontrolled kids.

Jessica, I think you misinterpreted the intentions of these restaurants...the specific one in question didn't ban children...just SCREAMING children. I actually saw an interview with the owners...the media (as usual) was sensationalizing this a bit...the sign they posted was meant as a lighthearted warning to parents to not ignore an out-of-control child that was being disruptive to ALL of their customers. It was laying down the expectation that parents will (temporarily) remove their child from the dining area until the child is done carrying on, and if the child cannot/does not calm down, then do what any reasonable, repsonsible parent would do, and leave. They are not banning small children outright - they are spelling out the expectation that parents be considerate of ALL of their patrons and behave in a socially responsible manner. It's just unfortunate that some parents need to be told that it is NOT okay to remain at the table, eating your meal, while your child throws a fit.

As for the bars in New York...as I said earlier, I'm appalled that any parent needs to be told that children do not belong there. After all, in the US, the legal drinking age is 21, and "patrons" under that age are not not allowed in/at a bar...even if they are not trying to be served. No, it really isn't "cute" to be sittins on a bar stool, sipping a martini, while bouncing your baby on your knee. It's a sad state of affairs that today's parents have become so ego-centric that they need to be told that it is inappropriate to bring their kids to certain establishments...or that they cannot ignore a prolonged outburst by their child to the detriment of those around them.

This whole issue is about making parents aware of how their child's behavior is affecting those around them, and what society's REASONABLE expectation is in how they respond. It is not about banning children outright from all public places. The sad truth is that some parents really do think it is acceptable to let their child's obnoxious, disruptive, and unruly behavior continue, just so that they can finish their meal. It is not about the mother with baby, who suddenly becomes fussy, and she tries to soothe the baby, and then leaves the dining area until the crying has ceased.

We are all entitled to certain freedoms, ladies - you have the right to take your child out in public with you and, if a screaming child is annoying you, you have the right to leave that establishment. There are definitely lazy parents out there who completely ignore their children's screaming, or worse, who coddle them during periods of bad behaviour. This is just how it is. It would be lovely if the parents of the annoying child packed them up and saved everyone else the headache, but these parents don't have to - its not wrong for them to do so, but it is really inconsiderate. A bar or restaurant posting these signs is hoping that these kinds of parents will clue in, and I have no problem with that. If I knew of any local places that supported this stance, I would definitely go there on my rare nights out without my son.

I completely agree with Lindsay, too many parents were absent the day common sense was doled out.

Family section on a plane? I fully support that. But I bet a lot of people would view this as some form of discrimination and get shitty about it.

I have a rule of thumb when it comes to restaurants, if there's a kids menu (a special menu full of activities and crayons given) than its probably a place I want to go as a family. And in those situations if my child wants to enjoy himself and gets a little loud out of fun thats fine (within reason..) But if my child is not having a good day or decides at this moment that he or she is going to try and test me, we pack up and leave enjoying our meal in the car or at home.But if a restaurant does not provide me with a child's menu or a dress code at the door, its usually an indication my child is not going to enjoy him or herself there, and will make sure I don't either. I love my children more than anything but if I'm going to put out some cash for a meal I want to do it in peace, which seems to be the consensus here.As a whole (not everyone but majority), it seems like we parents have common sense and a respect for others around us. I try not to judge parents because I know I hate it when people judge me. I try to just give the benefit of the doubt that this is someone's off day but I don't think we should go around throwing insults at other parents because they don't do things how we would like to. But thats just how I feel...

"Jessica - I'm guessing you're one of those parents who thinks they're entitled to ruin everyone elses night because you shoved a human being out your vagina. Well, I'm here to tell you that YOU'RE WRONG. Frankly I like your kids a helluva lot less than I like you. Which isn't much at the moment. "

Haha. I'm just amused (and last night, I was in a bad mood and therefore pissed) at the amount of venom you spew in your posts against children. One would wonder why you ever became a mother! I think its funny you think you can judge me that quickly. Quite frankly, I could give a rat's ass how much you like me or my child/ren. You're just someone who posts on the internet to me. I agree with some of your posts (on other subjects), and I disagree with some- but overall, you're just a screen name. So save yourself the judging and trying to tell me you don't like me.

And again. I perhaps didn't make myself clear enough on this in my other 2 posts because I was busy being a hormonal bitch. I actually do think that parents should have control and responsibility over their children in public. The few times my son has started really crying and fussing when out somewhere, I do leave pretty quickly. I don't want to deal with it and I'm sure others don't. I absolutely intend to do the same in the future- tantrums or acting up in public, and we leave. I actually don't intend to raise my children to be wild brats, thank you very much.

I know there are shitty parents who really do let their children run screaming around restaurants and let them do whatever they please. I'm sorry they exist and ruin other's experiences. But I don't think public places should be banning kids in general just because of those few.

Cathy, I hear you! While down the beach this summer, we were at a family restaurant. So far, Molly has always been reasonably behaved when we've eaten out, but this was the one night I thought there might be an issue.

The place was NOT all that busy, especially for a summer night in OC, but the service was painfully slow. When they did finally bring our food out, they brought everyone's meal except hers (A slice of pizza, no less!). The waitress was not particularly apologetic about it either...she sort of shrugged, and said "Oh, they forgot her pizza...it'll be up in about 10 minutes." Unfortuantely, the rest of us had gotten sandwiches that would hold no appeal for her, and girlfriend was hungry! I was annoyed, but refrained from comment, since it would not help my cause. Any waitress worth her salt should have known that this could be a recipe for disaster, but this girl seemed clueless. (Molly kept saying "pizza...where pizza?")

Rather than torment the other families around us, I took her outside to run around, and returned to the table when her meal arrived. It meant I ate a cold sandwich, but it prevented an unpleasant outburst from her. Needles to say, it was not one of my more generous tips, and we won't go back there next year.

OH wow. Having worked in restaurants for years I really get where they are coming from.

No one minds you bringing your child out! What we do have a problem with is when you kids starts freaking out like they just became demon possessed and you sit there.

We took our 7 month old out tonight and he was great. I feed him at the table and he didn't cry. If he would have started I would have taken him outside. I know that other people don't want to hear him cry. I have seen children running around getting in everyones way. I have seen them literally climbing the walls and hanging off or hand rails. The parent do nothing. I get so mad when a parent lets a child just get up and roam all over the place. It is very stupid. People are carrying hot food and coffee.

I can remember all the times while working that people have let babies cry so loud and so long that the staff is hiding in the kitchen. No one wants to here that. You know when you are at home and your kid is losing it you don't think wow this is great. No you just want that ear piercing sound to stop.

I do have a big problem with babies being in bars. WTF? Really you need to have that 3 month old still in his infant car seat in a smokey bar at 1 am. Great parenting. I once saw a couple bring a no more than a month old baby to a metal show at a bar. The bar was smoking and so loud. They did bring ear plugs which they dropped on the dirty wet bar floor and then put back in the babies ears. My friend was about to call child protective services when they left. We stood there for 15 mins watching them to see if they were really going to stay. Its a fucking bar no you don't need to take a baby. If you really want to go to a show one of you go one week and the other the next. Fuck sake people.

As for strollers. I hate them. Do not bring them into a restaurant unless it is a very small stroller or you know that the place has a lot of room. I hated having people with SUV sized strollers coming and expect me to jam other tables closer together so they could park a stroller. As a parent I leave mine in the car.

Also I hate it when people flip high chairs over to put car seats in them. It is so un-safe. Do you know how easy they are to tip.

Put you baby or high chair on the back side of the table so no one has to pass hot food over them. This also means they don't try to grab my apron.

One last thing if you are out to eat and your child makes a mess please tip extra.

The only thing I can think of is being a single mom (who does pretty much take her child everywhere,) why shouldn't I be able to have a family dinner (let's say for my birthday or mother's day) at a nice restaurant. I mean my son doesn't generally scream and cry in public but like one of the other mom's said, kids do push buttons sometimes. My son is a part of my family, and it is nice to sometimes take him out for a nice meal that I don't have to cook. With all that being said I really do understand the point of it all. I too get annoyed the few times I have gone out without my son and have to listen to another child pitch a fit. HOWEVER, its a part of being a member of society. Should they ban kids in grocery stores and malls past a certain time too?

I am very much of the mindset that it's my responsibility to take care of situations where my kids may annoy other people. No one else should have to siffer for my children's bad behavior be it at a restaurant, the grocery, or even McDonalds. And no, I have not been locked away in my house for the past 5 1/2 years. The kids have come with us nearly everywhere and while they are good kids that are well behaved, they do have the off days or meltdowns. When that happens, it's my responsibility as their parent to remove them form the situation as quickly as possible. If we are dining at a restaurant, I will take the kids to the car while Josh pays the bills and gets the food boxed up to go and apologizing. If it's in the grocery, I will quickly try to calm them down but I have left before without my groceries only to return later without them. It's not anyone else's place to listen to my kids fuss, and maybe it's the way I was raised but it's unacceptable to me to continue on with your business while letting the child you are responsible for act like that.

I do think it's a little sad that restaurants have to put these signs up. The reason for that is because it should be common sense to the parents but unfortunately it seems that many people were absent the day they passed out common sense.

"I can't believe people would go as far as banning kids from restaurants. And I also can't believe the amount of people here that support it."

Actually, I think it is "screaming kids" we support banning from restaurants....not banning all kids outright. If you are prepared to pack your kids up and leave if they are going to annoy other diners, then I have no objection at all. But there are some restaurants that you really have no right to expect to put up with your child throwing a tantrum. I think that's where a lot of people are coming from.

now i don't think that anyone would okay with an adult crapping themselves and crying unless they were dining at one of my jobs...but i'm pretty sure a baby can't help that...but i dont and never have taken my children to movies when they were small because i do think of other people, but thelast few times i was there i have had to share the movie with a fussy baby...now i do understand what it is like to have children and want to go out, and i also know what it's like to not want to hear it from anybody's child for at least 2 hours...thats why i say it's a little of both and everyone needs to be a little more understanding.

"I give every parent a couple of minutes to try and quiet or soothe their kid but when that doesn't happen GET RID OF IT. yeah you heard me. Evidently you suck as a parent a decent citizen so get rid of the kid and get a dog."

Are you fucking kidding me? You seriously need to get over yourself. Anyone who has a kid that cries sucks as a parent. Wow. I guess you must be mother of the fucking year since your kids have clearly never cried in public.

I can't believe people would go as far as banning kids from restaurants. And I also can't believe the amount of people here that support it. So... I can't take my baby and go out to eat? Because... oh no, he might make a peep and offend someone?! Get over it!

You can do a lot of things to avoid it. You can plan around your baby's schedule to avoid it missing a nap or something that would obviously make him cry. If your kids are old enough to know better, that is another thing. My parents took us out to eat ALL the time when we were little. And yes, we ate at "fancy" places too. If we started acting up- no threats or anything, my parents packed us up and left. It didn't take long before we cut it out and I still remember getting compliments from other people about how well behaved we were. I think the parent should be decent enough that if a kid is really acting up or their baby is crying non stop, they should leave. My son is only 15 months but I never stayed anywhere long if he started fussing a lot.

But sometimes its going to be unavoidable, I'm sorry. Babies cry- its what they do. Does that mean we should never take them anywhere in fear of them making a peep? That's ridiculous.

I'm sorry that I don't want to be one of those parents who never does anything with their children. I intent to include them in most things we do. I don't need to leave them with a baby sitter while we go have fun- that's why I wanted a family!

Well, I thinl it's sad that parents need to be told that certain venues are inappropriate to bring a small child to. It's ludicrous to me that a bar in New York had to enact a stroller ban to keep small children out. Seriously, someone needs to TELL you not to bring your kid to a bar at happy hour? Pathetic parenting, IMO.

Now, the restaurant deal...again, some people really do need to be told that there are restaurants where it simply is not appropriate to bring your small child to. I don't understand why they need to be told this, but I am reminded on a daily basis that the world is full of idiots, and sadly, many of them are parents.

Even if you are at a "family" restaurant, no on should need to tell you that when your kid is wailing like a banshee, or throwing fries into the next booth, you need to address that behavior, or remove your child so as not to ruin everyone else's meal. No, when I am out to dinner, even with my toddler, I do not need nor want to listen to your 3 year old scream or cry his head off. I realize that even the best of children act out at times, and I'm sure that my day with Molly is coming. Difference is, when that time comes, I am a bit more courteous than to subject a room full of strangers to her meltdown...I will tkae her out to the car while my husband pays our bill and gets boxes for our food.

It's funny reading some of these replies, because I can tell how old some of these kids are just from what the parents say. I thought my daughter was PERFECT, we could take her ANYWHERE and she was amazingly well-behaved (except for the month when she enjoyed screaming to hear her voice, which was the month we stayed home)... until she hit 2 1/2. She'll be 3 next week, and if we want to go out, we either get our MIL to watch her, or we go to Denny's (and even then during non-normal hours so as to bug as little people as possible). She's not always bad, but at this age they are very unpredictable. One day she had a meltdown simply because she didn't want to sit in the chair at the food court in the mall. So we strapped her into the high chair so we could scarf down our food (normally we'd leave, but being 30 weeks pregnant at the time and feeling faint, I had to eat something), then got her out of the chair where she through an even bigger tantrum because she decided she didn't want out of the chair. Or the day she said she wanted spaghetti, only to scream AWAY!!!!!! at the waiter because the sauce was chunkier than she was used to. Screaming kids are hard to handle, especially when they're old enough to have the do-it-myself kind of indiviual attitude forming. But we can't just stay at home and keep them locked up. But as parents I think we need to use common sense and discipline, as well as be courteous to others. The world may be becoming less tolerant of children, but at times I think parents are just becoming less courteous.

i think it's stupid as hell to tell people to leave their kids at home!! what about the loud obnoxious asshole, laughing and slobbering over everything? can we tell him he isn't welcome either, especially since he CAN control his behavior waaay more than a child can? people are crazy IMO to tell people to stay at home if they have kids, well i say to them eff off!! i'll take my kids with me whenever, whereever. if they misbehave, i will take care of the situation. the sign needs to read, if your kid starts to scream do something about it, or we'll kick you out, or refuse service or something to that effect, but to tell them they aren't welcome at all is ridiculous IMO.

Quite honestly, when my kids were little and much less predictable with their behaviour, I chose to go to family restaurants any way. It was just so much easier.

However, my kids have always been really well behaved when we go out to dinner, because it is such a treat for them. I can pretty much take them anywhere, so these days, now that they are older, we do. We have gone to some incredibly classy restaurants with them, places you wouldn't normally see kids. But they don't scream, they know that if they misbehave I will leave them with a babysitter next time, LOL. I've often had people come up to me and tell me what well behaved children I have, like they were surprised when I walked into that restaurant with children....but were surprised when it turned out to still be a pleasant meal even WITH kids around.

So basically, I don't think it is fair to take your kids to a restaurant that couldn't be classed as a family restaurant if there is the possibility they will misbehave and annoy other diners. Each individual knows their children best, and should judge on that basis. Yes, it is selfish to go to dinner in an adult restaurant with screaming kids.

i think it is a little of both...people are less tolerant of children and children are less disciplined than before. Everyone on here has children or it wouldn't be COM right?...so who hasn't goten to restaurant and then the child wants to lose their mind...they dont want to sit in the booster or high chair..they love chocolate milk everyday but at this moment it's the worse drink ever...if you say you have never been through this then i would say you are full of it...but we as parents also need to remember that just because you have mastered the art of playing deaf when your child cries, not everyone is in on that game. We do have to be considerate. I will also take a crying or fussy baby out of the restaurant, but it is nice when other parents who may have been able to get a babysitter and haven't been shut in the house all month like they suffer from leprosy give you a understanding glance or smile and not a get that baby the heck outta here glance as if they have never been there before.

Now..have i been irritated before because a set of parents had a future opera singer sitting right behind us and she cried for 30 minutes and screamed and threw things and not once did either of the parents get up and walk her out..umm yea..i would be lying if i said no..i was understanding for a while but the amount of time that they allowed to let go by was inconsiderate to everyone else....so we parents...and non..need to be more understanding and parents need to do the same...

I like that people are finally taking a stand against lazy parenting. I can't stand screaming kids and if mine dare to act out in public I'll haul their butts out of there so quick their heads will spin. I do not tolerate attitudes and tantrums in public and WILL take them out to the truck until it subsides. Just because I'm paying for a meal doesn't buy me the right to annoy everyone else in the place.

My dream is to open a family style "pub" where the whole family can go and eat, hear live music and dance. I would certainly put this policy in place and feel guilt free booting people out who let their little ones take over.

I agree with you Christina. I think the majority of people (parents and non) are nice and considerate to others. I think that the very ignorant parents and the very ignorant non parents are probably equal on both sides.

Jocelyn, I never said parents SHOULDN'T be considerate of others, but some people- generally people who've never had kids or haven't had them around in a while- tend to think they have priority over a full family. Everyone needs to eat. Yes, parents need to be considerate- definitely, but others could be a little more tolerant than they are- and I've seen some that are just downright rude towards parents, even if their children are fairly well-behaved.

Oh good grief, Sharon.. Really? First of all, babies can start teething at just a couple months, so why should a new mom HAVE to stay at home? Second of all, if your baby is teething and you ran out of teething gel or tylenol, it's going to be pretty hard to stop your baby from crying. THIRD of all, not every parent- not even the BEST parents- can KEEP their child FROM crying.

It's not that parents are becoming 'self entitled assholes', although that may be a starting trend, it's more that people don't want babies in public anymore.

You're being beyond dramatic here. Get rid of it? Seriously, Sharon? Just b/c their baby is fussy is not a reason to tell someone to 'get rid of it'.

And the whole thing about the plane..

First of all, I've flown First Class with my son before. Once when he had just turned 1, the second time he had just turned 2. Nobody seemed to care either time we flew F/C. There were other people with children not too much older than Liam, but most of them were business men and women. Nobody complained or anything, nobody gave us dirty looks. There were a few times my son got cranky and I took him out of his seat and he laid on my lap and slept most of the way. Mind you, these were almost 18-hour flights, and my son slept MOST of the way. I really don't think it's absolutely necessary to have a special section set apart from everyone for families. I think that's a little discriminatory. If the parents can pay for F/C and are WILLING to pay that much, they should be able to sit in F/C. If they are paying for Economy, they should be able to SIT in Economy.

I think the point in this article is that the restaurant was a classy, expensive place. People are more tolerant of children in the cheap and cheerful restaurants, so why not go to them. I don't buy it that parents are expected to hide away just because they can't take their baby to one of the most expensive restaurants in town. There are so many family friendly places these days and it seems like people are kicking up a fuss for the sake of it.

I also support the idea of a families section on a plane. I don't see why parents would have a problem with that unless they're so easily offended that they should stay in their home 24/7.

What do I think?? I'm starting to think that everyone who thinks little kids, even the most angelic kids, can't have a tantrum should all be put on an island by themselves and cut off from the rest of the world. That's what I think.

You know, it really bugs me that people say things like that. Every kid, I don't care how good they are at home, tests their parents when out in public at one point in time or another. It's really rude that someone would put a sign up like that.

Where was that restaurant again?? Maybe I'll have another baby and go there right when the baby is teething. Then I can sue them for something so outrageous. That's just one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. You can't always control how your kids are going to act. They get tired and frustrated, they get hungry and cranky when they don't get something right away (talking about young ones who don't understand what the term 'be patient' means) and it's sometimes just damn near impossible to know whether they are going to be fussy or not.

And to answer your question about people being intolerant.. Yes, it does seem that people are becoming more intolerant of kids, younger than teenagers, in public.

What do the hell they suppose us moms do?? Live in a cave for 18+ years until ALL of our children are over the age of 13??? I don't think so!

Look, if people want to go to a quiet restaurant, save up some cash and go to a restaurant that is specifically for older people (not older like elderly, but like a high class restaurant). Don't make the people with children suffer, for crying out loud. We're the ones that need to get out of the house the most!!!

I personally don't know why parents insist on bringing their kids EVERYWHERE with them all the time. I've seen kids in fancy restaurants, and I think that should be relatively off limits.

I think it's not that people are less tolerant of kids, kids are less disciplined than before. When I was a kid and we were going out, it was behave or feel the back of my hand (and while i don't really believe in spanking - it worked for the most part). I'm not saying we shoudl spank our kids, but there should be more discipline by the parents, and if you know your kid can't sit still for longer than 20 minutes, don't go to a sit down restaurant and ruin everyone elses meals, or take your kids to a family friendly restaurant where they have small play areas or a movie area for kids when they are finished eating so the adults can talk adn the kids stay occupied and relatively quiet (that and if you go to a family restaurant - you expect kids, and if you don't - you're pretty stupid..)

I know I've gotten stares when walking into a restaurant with our kids. You can see some people sigh or roll their eyes. It doesn't bother me, I know my kids will behave and if not, we leave.

I've also witnessed mothers (one of my own friends included) who completely tune out their children thinking it will teach them something. Fine, that works at home, it works well for me at home too. Not out in public though, where you are subjecting someone else to your children.

I do not mean a fussy child who's waiting for food, a baby who needs to be BF or changed, etc. I mean the children who go into a full on meltdown and the mother sits there ignoring them until they calm down. =/

... People are lacking in common sense! Good god they've paid for a nice dinner out. Why should they listen to what they've paid to escape?

Its sad that we need to make rules & pass laws to force people to follow what should be common sense.

Children section on planes - YAY!!!! I flew with my babies several times. Its nerve wracking. I didn't want my kids to upset other people. Airline tickets are so expensive. People are nervy and the airports are crazy and a screaming baby just sets everyone on edge. Its only gotten worse since sept. 11.

I'm all for a families section. A section where everyone will understand what you're going through? Hallelujah!!!