Hi, I'm a journalist from http://www.crikey.com.au/index-member.html I've just written a story about journalists abusing online forums, and at the risk of doing so myself, just wanted to ask if you got many trolls on chockstone or if you guys heard of journos trolling for accident info before? Feel free to email me eleri.harris@crikey.com.au.

A journo did that for Nick's unfortunate death in the bluies. I can't remember any other recent journo trolls, but bomber pro, westie or a more regular user would advise. Say hello to Jane N. from Ado.

Looking at his user details we found that this was in fact Paul Bibby from SMH, who apparently did something similar on a paragliding forum (I think). He made no attempt to identify himself in any way. Anyway, I hope this was helpful.

I look after the ACA website, we also had Paul Bibby post a rather disrespectful and dishonest post regarding the recent incident (which is a clear breach of ethics laid out by his employer)... I sent a complaint to Paul, his employer and also Mediawatch. Judging by the response i got from Mediawatch, i think many others who also moderate forums on other climbing sites did as well. I am yet to hear back from the SMH or Paul, hopefully his employer gave him a quiet word or two and sent him for re-ned-ucation.

An apology would be nice, however i don't think we'll see one...

Personally i don't mind reporters utilizing online forums to expand their stories, so long as they identify themselves and their intentions, instead of trying to bait people for information in a dishonest way.

I read the crikey article (free registration worked). Article was more about journalists posting and quoting themselves or selectivley quoting posts to back their angle on a story. No reference to journalists hiding their identity and trying to elicit posts about deaths, specifically the identities of the deceased. Media Watch may do a better Job of this issue but crikey's article was pìss weak.

I didn't read it till after i posted, but yes, i agree, wtf has this got to do with anything, lame article at best. Stupid registration and paid subscriptions gates, their website could have a lot more traffic without them...

Remove the registration gates and monetize all the extra traffic it brings. Most visitors will simply click back if a news site wants them to register, even if it is free... Many american newspapers discovered that the hard way.

I wrote this article last week and as a result of that article I recieved a tip from someone at Chockstone saying you guys had more serious issues with forum trolling than I had written about intially -- so I am following up now. I hope that makes sense. Media Watch are not on air at the moment but they often use stuff that Crikey has published anyway, so regardless at least the issue will become more public. Thanks for your help, I appreciate it.

Journalists love online forums – they provide publicly accessible colour with which to illustrate a story; lack the need to identify or substantiate the claims of the author; can profess to represent the collective thought of an entire group, (without the journalist having to actually contact that group) and if a journalist is feeling so inclined there’s nothing stopping them from writing their own online forum post and quoting themselves.

In November the Adelaide Advertiser used one lonely online forum quote, "Aliens I tell ya, aliens man. They have found them and don't want us to know about it. Just like Roswell. I tell ya man, it's a conspiracy" to suggest the interwebs were “running hot with conspiracy theories of a Government cover-up” about aliens in the Simpson desert.

And in December it seems The Australian followed suit with their reference to the Lonely Planet’s online forum Thorn Tree in the story “Down like Alice the meltdown of a tourist mecca”. In a post on the Inside Lonely Planet Digital blog, author Vanessa Paech wrote:

“…our members noticed some suspicious conversation on the Australian branch of Thorn Tree. A new user asks a question about traveller safety in Alice Springs… and the same user helpfully responds with a confirmation of their general concerns? Internet baiting gone awry?”

A week after the dodgy double post, Paech noted, The Oz used it to suggest travelers were concerned about safety issues in Alice Springs:
“On the Lonely Planet's Thorn Tree travel forum, a woman called Alexa issues safety advice to a fellow traveller thinking of visiting Alice Springs. "NEVER walk alone at night. It's an alcohol-fuelled town that has the highest murder rate per capita of any non-conflict region," she says. "NEVER get drunk at night and decide to walk back to your accommodation - you're a target. Catch a cab always."
Though Alexa's fears are overstated, tourists' concerns over crime rates are not without cause.”
This is despite the number of posts directly following that debunked the original posts and called the author “Alexa” a “forum troll”.

In a similar vein, the UK the Sun newspaper was held to scrutiny by the The Sun –Tabloid Lies blog last week for misrepresenting posts on an online forum. A front page story headlined “Hate hit list” reported that an online Islamic community was an “Extremist threat to UK Jews”, all off the back of one a commenter who suggested a letter writing campaign to support Palestine. Septicisle, the blogger who pulled the Sun up, said:

“To me it just looks like the Sun doing what it always does: twisting the truth as far as it can to create a "story" while not telling outright lies. That it will further inflame hatred against Muslims who were only proposing a letter writing campaign, and also scare Jewish individuals already concerned at the potential for attacks on them because of Israel's actions in Gaza is just an unfortunate by-product of the Sun's constant need to keep shifting copies and making money. Nothing else apart from that matters, and if other people get hurt, so be it.”

But journalists aren’t the only professionals who like to abuse online forums. Last October Greens candidate Tim Lyons was forced to pull out of a city council race after posting a comment in an online local politics forum on the Maribyrnong Leader website under a pseudonym and then lying about it. The Leader said,

“The comment supported Western Metropolitan Greens MP Colleen Hartland’s position on the Whitten Oval redevelopment and discussed the value of having a mix of political views on council, including those of the Greens, ALP and independents.”

When questioned by The Leader Mr Lyons initially denied posting the comment, despite the fact that the email and IP addresses used to post the comment both linked to him.

Forums are in part easy to abuse because they’re notoriously difficult to moderate. Social network strategist Laurel Papworth says while it is critical to manage forums, “The best thing for moderators to do is to create safe forums, where communities can grow and develop and then moderate themselves.”

This is what happened with the Thorn Tree forum, the community immediately recognized there was something amiss with Alexa, debunked her claims and followed up on the Australian story with further links discrediting it. However The Australian’s online version of the Thorn Tree story has no space for comments – which means no way for digital communities to point out the issues surrounding the use of such a quote and no way to hold the journalist accountable.

On 20/01/2009 Eleri wrote:>I wrote this article last week and as a result of that article I recieved>a tip from someone at Chockstone saying you guys had more serious issues>with forum trolling than I had written about intially -- so I am following>up now. I hope that makes sense. Media Watch are not on air at the moment>but they often use stuff that Crikey has published anyway, so regardless>at least the issue will become more public. Thanks for your help, I appreciate>it.
I wondered if this was the case. From memory I think there was another reporter indicent following the tragic accident in Blue Lake, although i can't recall the details.

I just had a good talk to Paul Bibby from SMH this morning about the 'problems' with journos on this forum. He assured me (and i believed him) that he wasn't trying to hide his indentiy (his profile clearly listed his email address as being from the SMH). What he wasn't aware of was just how insular our forum is - that we all know each other quite well and that an 'outsider' is very easily identified. It's a brave new world for these journos - they are expected to get articles online very quickly and a forum is certainly the quickest way of getting this information from the source so to speak. We agreed that in the future he needs to formally identify himself as a journo when posting on these forums.

On 20/01/2009 nmonteith wrote:>I just had a good talk to Paul Bibby from SMH this morning about the 'problems'>with journos on this forum. He assured me (and i believed him) that he>wasn't trying to hide his indentiy (his profile clearly listed his email>address as being from the SMH). What he wasn't aware of was just how insular>our forum is - that we all know each other quite well and that an 'outsider'>is very easily identified. It's a brave new world for these journos - they>are expected to get articles online very quickly and a forum is certainly>the quickest way of getting this information from the source so to speak.>We agreed that in the future he needs to formally identify himself as a>journo when posting on these forums.

Bah! Why did you go and actually talk to him! By talking to him you realise that he is an actual person and not a blob of purple slime. How are we suppose to get the Chockstone Lynch Mob™ together now!? Its so much easier to forum lynch somebody if they are a faceless character and not a real falible human.

On 20/01/2009 nmonteith wrote:>I just had a good talk to Paul Bibby from SMH this morning about the 'problems'>with journos on this forum. He assured me (and i believed him) that he>wasn't trying to hide his indentiy (his profile clearly listed his email>address as being from the SMH).
You may believe him but having an email address that is in your profile IS NOT identifing yourself as a journalist. I would say this was a clear breach of the code of conduct and there is no excuse.
Thanks Eleri for posting that here.

Paul will be posting his explanation on this forum in the near future. I think it was just a mistake made from rushing into the forum and trying to get the news as quickly as possible with the minimal of keystrokes!

Personally I think that accepting that explanation relies on at least one person being an idiot, either Paul Bibby is trying to argue the case that he's so incompetent that he failed to meet a very basic tenet of good reporting practice or alternatively he expects that we're all stupid enough to believe that he just made a simple oversight.

My money is on the latter, he was trawling for comment and knew that identifying himself as a reporter would reduce the chance of getting something he could put to ink, until I see something compelling to the contrary I maintain that he's an unethical scumbag.