I am sick to death of hearing about Ginn's potential to become a #1 WR.

You have been hearing this? I have never heard this.

Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:27 pm

FrustratedFinFan

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Re: Dan Marino: Speed makes Ted Ginn Jr. a valuable commodity

For several year, I thought Ginn was gonna' turn the corner and become the elite receiver we need. I was willing to put a lot of the blame on Pennington's short arm as well. But now we have Henne and his rocket arm and Ginn is still invisible. He is great on reverses or on some returns....where he gets an open field to use his speed. He is horrible catching the football....way too inconsistent....lack of heart and desire to fight for the ball, lay out for the ball, or to take a hit for the extra yards. He is not the answer as our #1 wide receiver....or even as our #2 wide receiver. He is a good player in the roles I described above....and is a major first round draft disappointment.

We have our #2 and #3 receivers in Hartline and Bess/Camarillo. Let's get a #1 guy now. Keep Ginn for the occasional pass play, but mostly to run reverses and return kicks....but if there is a sucker, er.....trade partner, out there, then let's test the market.

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Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:46 pm

Phin

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Re: Dan Marino: Speed makes Ted Ginn Jr. a valuable commodity

bobby0112 wrote:

The stats bring documented proof to the notion that Ginn doesn't catch as many passes sent his way compared to the other receivers. Instead of giving my opinion after having watched 3 years of this, I provided the stats. The stats say a lot. They say that the other two receivers have been more successful taking adavantage of the opportunities they had when targeted. The stats show that it isn't one bad year for Ginn but a trend of inconsistency over 3 years.

I'm going to go back to what I already posted. Ginn gets passes thrown to him further down the field than the other receivers do. Many of these passes sail far over his head or are off target; that will tank your completion % as a receiver. Yeah Ginn hasn't shown that he is a #1 receiver because he isn't, he is ideally a #2. I'm not in disagreement with that argument. I just don't think the stats in this case tell the whole story. We can arrive at the same conclusion regarding the player, but that doesn't mean that we both used a logical path to get there.

bobby0112 wrote:

I also believe the stats show a lack of confidence in Ginn from Henning and Henne in the the times that Ginn is targeted.

That's an enormous assumption. You may be right about the trust issue, but its not because the 'stats' told you.

Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:29 pm

dolphinjim

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Re: Dan Marino: Speed makes Ted Ginn Jr. a valuable commodity

Iowa is Ginn hater pure and simple. He is mad about what Ginn did to his Hawkeyes I'm sure.

I will trust Dan on this, sorry Iowa.

Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:49 pm

Iowafin

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Re: Dan Marino: Speed makes Ted Ginn Jr. a valuable commodity

dolphinjim wrote:

Iowa is Ginn hater pure and simple. He is mad about what Ginn did to his Hawkeyes I'm sure.

I will trust Dan on this, sorry Iowa.

Well, you'd be wrong. I've already posted elsewhere what Ginn "did" to Iowa, which was virtually nothing...so I could really give a rip about him in his college days. I'm a Ginn "hater" because of his inability to make more good plays than bad ones.

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Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:33 pm

FrustratedFinFan

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Re: Dan Marino: Speed makes Ted Ginn Jr. a valuable commodity

I no longer care much for Ginn for much the same reason that Iowa doesn't......not enough good plays for a guy drafted in the 1st round and who possesses elite speed. He is a classic underachiever. He still has some potential as a return man....but even there he makes too many bad plays. I have loved watching him run reverses.....but is that all you want out of your 1st round draft pick and "#1" receiver? This team sure missed on quite a string of top draft picks.

The guy probably sticks with the team, but you can't be very happy with what he has become. I was excited when he was drafted and can't believe that he has not been able to achieve more with his God given talents. He has been a shocking disappointment....We should have just kept Chambers....oh well.

_________________Philbin's countenance exudes confidence!1984 was so long ago...Will there ever be another rainbow?

Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:02 pm

MTFan

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Re: Dan Marino: Speed makes Ted Ginn Jr. a valuable commodity

FrustratedFinFan wrote:

He still has some potential as a return man....but even there he makes too many bad plays.

I understand people hear or read stuff so often they believe it. So just so I don't take this statement as truth could you let me in on his bad plays. I'd appreciate it.

Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:30 pm

Iowafin

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Re: Dan Marino: Speed makes Ted Ginn Jr. a valuable commodity

MTFan wrote:

FrustratedFinFan wrote:

He still has some potential as a return man....but even there he makes too many bad plays.

I understand people hear or read stuff so often they believe it. So just so I don't take this statement as truth could you let me in on his bad plays. I'd appreciate it.

Um...we've shown you videos, I've shown you stats....we compared good and bad plays. What more do you want?

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Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:06 pm

MTFan

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Re: Dan Marino: Speed makes Ted Ginn Jr. a valuable commodity

Iowafin wrote:

MTFan wrote:

FrustratedFinFan wrote:

He still has some potential as a return man....but even there he makes too many bad plays.

I understand people hear or read stuff so often they believe it. So, just so I don't take this statement as truth could you let me in on his bad plays. I'd appreciate it.

Um...we've shown you videos, I've shown you stats....we compared good and bad plays. What more do you want?

calm down statman. We have narrowed this particular conversation to "bad return plays"

Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:40 pm

Iowafin

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Re: Dan Marino: Speed makes Ted Ginn Jr. a valuable commodity

MTFan wrote:

calm down statman. We have narrowed this particular conversation to "bad return plays"

I realize that. That snoop video shows 3 returns where Ginn is bumbling around with the ball and his body. I can list at least 5 other times where he screwed around at the 5 and ended up getting no further than the 12 and/or fumbling the football.

I know Ginn had that huge return game vs. the Jets & I know he has had some returns called back because of penalties that may or may not have sprung him on those returns. But he did develop tendencies to run backward on returns this past season as well. It became very frustrating. I am not sure if he will ever be anything more here than he is now. I think a change of location will do him good. While I see MT makes some points in his favor , killing drives whether its by giving poor field position or 3rd down drops is just to much for this team to overcome & put up with. His salary is basically cheap so people have been saying , so I guess he sticks around but to expect some breakout year from him , or to live up to the 1st round hype at this point might be a pipe dream. Iowa has backed up hid points pretty well on this one.

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Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:21 am

FrustratedFinFan

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Re: Dan Marino: Speed makes Ted Ginn Jr. a valuable commodity

I watch every Dolphin game...even all of the losses in the 1-15 season. I might not have a lowlight reel of Ginn returns to show you, but I know for a fact that the guy has a tendency to run backwards and sideways when there isn't anything there. He costs us field position every time he does that. He is not very elusive in the open field and doesn't break tackles, so if there isn't enough open field for him to use his speed advantage....he needs to put his head down and run ahead and get the best yardage he can. He also has gone through several phases where he drops or mishandles the ball in a return....and that either leads to a turnover or lost field position again.

I will say.....he has improved as a return man.....but you would have hoped for more from one of the fastest men in the NFL who was drafted #9 in the first round.

_________________Philbin's countenance exudes confidence!1984 was so long ago...Will there ever be another rainbow?

Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:32 pm

Iowafin

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Re: Dan Marino: Speed makes Ted Ginn Jr. a valuable commodity

FrustratedFinFan wrote:

I watch every Dolphin game...even all of the losses in the 1-15 season. I might not have a lowlight reel of Ginn returns to show you, but I know for a fact that the guy has a tendency to run backwards and sideways when there isn't anything there. He costs us field position every time he does that. He is not very elusive in the open field and doesn't break tackles, so if there isn't enough open field for him to use his speed advantage....he needs to put his head down and run ahead and get the best yardage he can. He also has gone through several phases where he drops or mishandles the ball in a return....and that either leads to a turnover or lost field position again.

I will say.....he has improved as a return man.....but you would have hoped for more from one of the fastest men in the NFL who was drafted #9 in the first round.

The only thing I'd disagree with is he is very elusive in the open field. Give him a lane and he'll outrun the rest to the endzone in a kickoff. However, he can't make his own lanes or even find smaller creases. His second return against the Jets was a good one after dodging a couple of guys, but for whatever reason, the Jets had terrible kickoff coverage

so if there isn't enough open field for him to use his speed advantage....he needs to put his head down and run ahead and get the best yardage he can.

like Pat White did?

FrustratedFinFan wrote:

He also has gone through several phases where he drops or mishandles the ball in a return....and that either leads to a turnover or lost field position again.

I also can't remember the last time I missed a game, even during our wonderful 1-15 campaign, but for the life of me I can't remember this scenario happening several times, and I'm not taking snoops word for it.