But let's assume, for the sake of argument, that the birth certificate is a forgery. Forget about the fact that this would have to a conspiracy involving hundreds, if not thousands of people, and would require intimidating thousands more to keep the lid on it. Forget all the actual facts. Just assume the bullshit is true.

What have the Government done to make you earn their trust? Have they not run up massive unpayable amounts of debt? Have they not refused to secure the borders with Mexico? Have they not lied about the WMD in Iraq? Did they not lie about the Gulf of Tonkin incident?

And why do you think thousands of people need to be involved in the Obama Scam? Were 1000 people there when you were born? How many hospital staff were in the hospital when you were born? I would be surprised if it was 100 and of those only about 5 would even know about your birth. And if that happened 50 years ago there is a good chance they are not even alive anymore. Don't make it seem like thousands of people are in on it. But maybe there were. When Rome fell hundreds of thousands of citizens were corrupt.

As the USA collapses millions of people will become corrupt and criminally involved in some scheme or another. Eventually so many people are criminal that it cannot be contained anymore.

Yes, you very clearly know "quite a bit about computers." I mean, shit, look at you, you're posting on the interwebs using some sort of electric typewriter on an acoustically-coupled modem! Those actual experts who say this isn't an issue? They don't know jackshit. You're super-knowledgeable on this stuff. Image processing is your bread and butter. Why, you don't even bother actually rendering images. You look at the raw bytes and visualize them in your head.

I have forgotten things about computers that you yet have to learn. I have extensive experience with graphics and have yet to see an original scanned document with doctored layers and a fake pristine background.

If they are trying to convince me the document is real then why not take the original document or film record, place it on a flatbed and scan it like normal people do with a fucking scanner? The result should be a flat image with the original paper background and seal.

You'd imagine that the State of Hawaii would legally pursue the release of a false document purporting to be from the State in violation of State laws...

Only if politicians were not whores. How do you know they are not corrupt and compromised? Where is your proof? My proof is I have not seen the original scanned document yet. What they gave us was a manipulated graphic document.

Perhaps it does, perhaps it doesn't. If the OCR scan is successful and the content is stored inline with the document, then yes, to some extent it does become searchable; not like a Word document, but similar to some extent. But of course nothing prevents the OCR data from being stripped. Now the facts are that the layering observed is very typical of such automatic post-processing actually. It can even be trivially duplicated by scanning old, typewritten documents, especially ones that contain thatched backgrounds, like the birth certificate in question.

Did you know that you can take the fake obama certificate document that the government gave us, run OCR processing on it and it becomes searchable? So it is already possible for OCR to work with that document. The fact that text is not searchable in the government document means OCR processing was not done on it. So now we want to know why are there layers in this document? Why was it not flat like the documents you scan at work or your home?

And why do you think thousands of people need to be involved in the Obama Scam?

Simple math really: count the number people who have access to the original records on file in Hawaii, then add the number of people in charge of microfiche newspaper records from 1961, then add the number of people who have access to Department of State records that contain copies of original documents submitted by Obama to be issued a passport, then add the number of people at the Social Security administration who have copies of the documents submitted when either Obama (or someone on his behalf) applied for an SSN, then add the number of people who have access to the copies of the documents submitted at the DMV in States where Obama was issued a driver's license from.

I'd say that, conservatively that adds up to least a few hundred people.

Were 1000 people there when you were born? How many hospital staff were in the hospital when you were born? I would be surprised if it was 100 and of those only about 5 would even know about your birth. And if that happened 50 years ago there is a good chance they are not even alive anymore.

In the entire hospital? Probably. But 1000 didn't see me get born. But that's irrelevant and not the point I was making. See above.

But there would have to be thousands of people. Of all ages, races, political viewpoints and religious beliefs. And they would all have to be in on it - either by directly participating or by remaining silence - since just ONE of them could blow this thing sky high with ONE shred of credible evidence. But let's say that it all adds up to only a couple of hundred people. None of those people will talk? Why? What possible motivation could they have to all remain silent?

Logic people. An 18 year old student, with no money, who lives with her parents, does not have the means nor inclination to leave an isolated island in the middle of nowhere to have her baby.

End of story.

She was liberal by nature and thought nothing of fucking an African American and having his baby at a time when this was still very much taboo for a white skinned woman to do. I could see her go anywhere in the world if she decided to. She moved from the mainland to Hawaii with her parents and then lived in Indonesia. Seems to me she was inclined to do a lot of things normal women wouldn't.

Who knows why they are not releasing a real birth certificate. I do find it rather interesting that Obama looks more like Communist Frank Marshall Davis than the supposed Kenyan dad.

Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence. I don't necessarily trust the Government.

Sure they have. What does that have to do with Obama's birth certificate? Do you think it might actually be a T-bill instead of a birth certificate?

Perhaps, although I don't believe that a border as massive can be secured to your satisfaction. But what does have to do with Obama's birth certificate? Do you think it was the Mexicans?

They almost certainly lied. But look at what happened with Bush's infamous "yellowcake uranium" claims in his State of the Union address, starting from Joe Wilson's op-ed in the New York Times.

Sure. And how long did that stay under wraps?

Simple math really: count the number people who have access to the original records on file in Hawaii, then add the number of people in charge of microfiche newspaper records from 1961, then add the number of people who have access to Department of State records that contain copies of original documents submitted by Obama to be issued a passport, then add the number of people at the Social Security administration who have copies of the documents submitted when either Obama (or someone on his behalf) applied for an SSN, then add the number of people who have access to the copies of the documents submitted at the DMV in States where Obama was issued a driver's license from.

I'd say that, conservatively that adds up to least a few hundred people.

In the entire hospital? Probably. But 1000 didn't see me get born. But that's irrelevant and not the point I was making. See above.

But there would have to be thousands of people. Of all ages, races, political viewpoints and religious beliefs. And they would all have to be in on it - either by directly participating or by remaining silence - since just ONE of them could blow this thing sky high with ONE shred of credible evidence. But let's say that it all adds up to only a couple of hundred people. None of those people will talk? Why? What possible motivation could they have to all remain silent?

And this, if true, proves, what, exactly?

Let's wait and see, instead of just taking your word for it. It's not that I don't believe you. I just think you're fucking delusional.

Many of the points I made was to illustrate that we are dealing with an untrustworthy leaderships system in the USA. I see Bush and Clinton just as corrupt as Obama. All these whores are being handled by their masters.

Bottom line is this system is so full of lies that I ask myself why would anyone trust one thing coming out of their pie-holes?!

That's a reasonable question. But then, why trust those who claim the birth certificate is a forgery? Are their pie-holes producing better-tasting pies?

They did not produce a fake certificate though. The ball is in the cord of the ones that lied. It is a fake document which the layers prove and their ocr bullshit argument exposed them when it became clear they never ran any OCR software on it. But don't believe me go look for yourself. I am not asking you to trust me, go find out for yourself!

They did not produce a fake certificate though. The ball is in the cord of the ones that lied. It is a fake document which the layers prove and their ocr bullshit argument exposed them when it became clear they never ran any OCR software on it. But don't believe me go look for yourself. I am not asking you to trust me, go find out for yourself!

But the layers don't prove that. You assert they prove that. But the reality is that not only do a great number of actual experts assert otherwise, but it's TRIVIAL to verify that scanning a similar document (especially one with a thatched background, that has small printed fonts, and typewritten information added during production) while performing OCR will actually result in the creation of similar layers in the resulting document.

She was liberal by nature and thought nothing of fucking an African American and having his baby at a time when this was still very much taboo for a white skinned woman to do. I could see her go anywhere in the world if she decided to. She moved from the mainland to Hawaii with her parents and then lived in Indonesia. Seems to me she was inclined to do a lot of things normal women wouldn't.

*facepalm* OF COURSE! HOW COULD I HAVE MISSED IT BEFORE!!! It's obvious now. It was his extra gene - colloquially referred to as the Lenin-gene - which is responsible for communist thoughts.

facepalms will not help you. You need years of deprogramming. In fact, you need to go back to before you were born and find new parents because your lineage made it impossible for you to question your superiors. Genetically you are not capable of this important step.

But the layers don't prove that. You assert they prove that. But the reality is that not only do a great number of actual experts assert otherwise, but it's TRIVIAL to verify that scanning a similar document (especially one with a thatched background, that has small printed fonts, and typewritten information added during production) while performing OCR will actually result in the creation of similar layers in the resulting document.

But don't let little things like FACTS get in your way

See my post above yours showing a real certificate. All your bs responses cannot explain what the fuck is going on with that fake certificate when compared to the real deal. It is really that simple. We were expecting the real deal and they gave us fake crap. Now why would they want to do that??!

She was liberal by nature and thought nothing of fucking an African American and having his baby at a time when this was still very much taboo for a white skinned woman to do. I could see her go anywhere in the world if she decided to. She moved from the mainland to Hawaii with her parents and then lived in Indonesia. Seems to me she was inclined to do a lot of things normal women wouldn't.

Who knows why they are not releasing a real birth certificate. I do find it rather interesting that Obama looks more like Communist Frank Marshall Davis than the supposed Kenyan dad.

You ever been to Hawaii? Most people are mixes of 3,4 and even more races.

Besides skin color Obama looks a lot like his mom. He looks nothing like that other black guy. Can't tell much from one pic of his dad with glasses on but I do remember Obama's half brother Mark(same dad, Jewish mom) looks a lot like Obama.

Btw, there are plenty of people in Hawaii still alive who went to university with his mom who saw the baby from pretty much the day he was born until he went to Seattle soon after.

Fake why? Because it's not a document actually issued in 1961, but an official reproduction of the document that was originally issued in 1961? I was born in the late 70's, and I don't have an original birth certificate from that time, I just had a short-form issued later. When I needed a long-form one, the Department of Health issued me one which reproduced the original information (which is almost certainly now stored in microfiche) on new paper, signed and sealed.

This is a copy of a birth certificate that was originally issued in 1961.

Fake why? Because it's not a document actually issued in 1961, but an official reproduction of the document that was originally issued in 1961? I was born in the late 70's, and I don't have an original birth certificate from that time, I just had a short-form issued later. When I needed a long-form one, the Department of Health issued me one which reproduced the original information (which is almost certainly now stored in microfiche) on new paper, signed and sealed.

Perhaps he doesn't have one from that time? Many people don't. I didn't, and when I ordered one, I got back something that looks very much like what Obama showed.

I have my original and I was born before you. So does my wife. Even a copy receives a seal I believe. Yet this does not. Hawaii offered Obama's certificate as proof so they obviously archived certificates. Let's see comparable ones from babies born on the same day. Oh wait, we have. this one!

How is Hawaii archiving their certificates? On Microfiche? Perhaps someone from Hawaii should have a copy scanned of their own certificate so we can all see the results.

I have my original and I was born before you. So does my wife. Even a copy receives a seal I believe. Yet this does not. Hawaii offered Obama's certificate as proof so they obviously archived certificates. Let's see comparable ones from babies born on the same day. Oh wait, we have. this one!

How is Hawaii archiving their certificates? On Microfiche? Perhaps someone from Hawaii should have a copy scanned of their own certificate so we can all see the results.

Let's see comparable ones from babies born on the same day. Oh wait, we have. this one!

Yes, let's... HEY! WAIT A MINUTE! That is an original document that was issued 1961. You can't really compare that to Obama's document, which is a reproduction of the original data which the State of Hawaii has on file.

How is Hawaii archiving their certificates? On Microfiche? Perhaps someone from Hawaii should have a copy scanned of their own certificate so we can all see the results.

Hawaii discarded the actual paper records in 2001. I am unsure of how they store records, but I'd imagine that a large part of the older records (including ones from the '60s) are on microfiche, which was the standard storage method for such data. The document that Obama presented is the reproduction of the microfiched information and as close as you can possibly get to the original document that was submitted to the Department.

Do you know what you're looking at here? You're looking at a photostat of the microfiched data. The "seals" you see are not actual raised seals. They're only the lighting artifacts of the original raised seals, during the conversion of the original document to a negative on microfilm. Such indentations are much more clearly visible when viewing the negative of an image.

Again, I will ask you - how do you explain the existence of newspapers from 1961 documenting Obama's birth?