How can we trust something to be inspired fom the Holy Spirit and of divine origin if it has "false" and "contradictorial" claims ?

I assume that as an Orthodox Christian you are Chrismated and thereby have the Grace of the Holy Spirit upon you, and you are also of divine origin, made in the image of God, Himself.....and yet you most likely aren't perfect, but, filled with contradictions. How is that so?

Do we not have the Grace of the Holy Spirit? ...and even so...we sin.

You are struggling with your beliefs....and looking for "proof" to base your faith on.

There will never be enough proof to convince everyone. If you look for issues, you will always find them.

I suggest you stop looking at all the controversy, all the inconsistencies, the degree of "Jewishness" of Christ...and instead focus on His message, His teachings, His example.

If someone is filling your head with doubts, I suggest you distance yourself from them, and instead find someone to help you grow closer to the Faith....perhaps a priest, your godparents, etc.

Logged

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.—St. Isaac of Syria

How can we trust something to be inspired fom the Holy Spirit and of divine origin if it has "false" and "contradictorial" claims ?

I assume that as an Orthodox Christian you are Chrismated and thereby have the Grace of the Holy Spirit upon you, and you are also of divine origin, made in the image of God, Himself.....and yet you most likely aren't perfect, but, filled with contradictions. How is that so?

Do we not have the Grace of the Holy Spirit? ...and even so...we sin.

You are struggling with your beliefs....and looking for "proof" to base your faith on.

There will never be enough proof to convince everyone. If you look for issues, you will always find them.

I suggest you stop looking at all the controversy, all the inconsistencies, the degree of "Jewishness" of Christ...and instead focus on His message, His teachings, His example.

If someone is filling your head with doubts, I suggest you distance yourself from them, and instead find someone to help you grow closer to the Faith....perhaps a priest, your godparents, etc.

We believe it contains the Word of God. E.g. the Gospels. All of it is certainly not "the Word of God" literally like Muslims claim the Qu'ran is, but all of it is inspired by God (theopneustos). What we call 'divine inspiration' is on a totally different level than logic consistency or historical objectivity: a parable can be divinely inspired even if it is mere fiction; so can stories or (intentionally/unintentionally) pseudo-historical accounts. It's not like some evil genius contrived to cheat you into believing what you read and then you'll be a sucker if you fall for it.

Take every book for what it is, if you care to study how it originated. But do not reduce it to the bare literal meaning in its own historical context, if you wish to understand its spiritual relevance as Divine Scripture for the Fathers, the Saints and members of the Church from all ages and all parts of the world.

You can begin to see how it's divinely inspired only if you allow the text to absorb all your world, if you begin to live by the "stories". Only then can you see it both as alive and larger than life:

Quote

Indeed, the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing until it divides soul from spirit, joints from marrow; it is able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. And before him no creature is hidden, but all are naked and laid bare to the eyes of the one to whom we must render an account.

Hebrews 4:12-13

Is this self-suggestion, psychological brain-washing, mystification, wishful thinking? Try and see. Otherwise you'll just count the inconsistencies and dismiss it as "OT dubiousness", forever pestering well-meaning forumists with flippant questions and prickly witticisms. There's a fundamental lack of bona fides in your attitude so far.

Of course. Only one is infallible, God. If the Bible is not read in the light of Jesus Christ, the Truth, then the Bible is just a book of myths and fables that could be interpreted to mean anything. Case in point, all these Bible-only faiths that believe in anything and everything.

We not only follow the writings in the Bible, but, those of the Church Fathers, etc.

Tradition (capital T) is a major part of Orthodoxy.

Logged

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.—St. Isaac of Syria

Of course. Only one is infallible, God. If the Bible is not read in the light of Jesus Christ, the Truth, then the Bible is just a book of myths and fables that could be interpreted to mean anything. Case in point, all these Bible-only faiths that believe in anything and everything.

Take every book for what it is, if you care to study how it originated. But do not reduce it to the bare literal meaning in its own historical context, if you wish to understand its spiritual relevance as Divine Scripture for the Fathers, the Saints and members of the Church from all ages and all parts of the world.

You can begin to see how it's divinely inspired only if you allow the text to absorb all your world, if you begin to live by the "stories". Only then can you see it both as alive and larger than life...

This is great. I enjoy much of your writing.

Logged

"The kingdom of heaven is virtuous life, just as the torment of hell is passionate habits." - St. Gregory of Sinai

"Our idea of God tells us more about ourselves than about Him." - Thomas Merton

This is taken from 101 Contradictions in the Bible, by Shabir Ally.Yes I know there is a refutation to this circulating online, but I must say it is not very convincing to me.. Can you refute them?

Contradiction #1Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel? (a) God did (2 Samuel 24:1) (b) Satan did (1 Chronicles 21:1).

Contradiction #2 In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel? (a) Eight hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9). (b) One million, one hundred thousand (1 Chronicles 21:5).

Contradiction #3How many fighting men were found in Judah? (a) Five hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9). (b) Four hundred and seventy thousand (1 Chronicles 21:5).

Contradiction #4God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine? (a) Seven (2 Samuel 24:13). (b) Three (1 Chronicles 21:12).

Contradiction #5How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem? (a) Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26). (b) Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2).

Contradiction #6How old was Jehoiachin when he became king of Jerusalem? (a) Eighteen (2 Kings 24:. (b) Eight (2 Chronicles 36:9).

Contradiction #7How long did he rule over Jerusalem? (a) Three months (2 Kings 24:. (b) Three months and ten days (2 Chronicles 36:9).

Contradiction #8The chief of the mighty men of David lifted up his spear and killed how many men at one time? (a) Eight hundred (2 Samuel 23:. (b) Three hundred (1 Chronicles 11:11).

Contradiction #9When did David bring the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem? Before defeating the Philistines or after? (a) After (2 Samuel 5 and 6). (b) Before (1 Chronicles 13 and 14).

Contradiction #10How many pairs of clean animals did God tell Noah to take into the Ark? (a) Two (Genesis 6:19, 20). (b) Seven (Genesis 7:2). But despite this last instruction only two pairs went into the ark (Genesis 7:8, 9).

Contradiction #11When David defeated the King of Zobah, how many horsemen did he capture? (a) One thousand and seven hundred (2 Samuel 8:4). (b) Seven thousand (1 Chronicles 18:4).

Contradiction #13In what year of King Asa's reign did Baasha, King of Israel die? (a) Twenty-sixth year (1 Kings 15:33 - 16:. (b) Still alive in the thirty-sixth year (2 Chronicles 16:1).

Contradiction #14How many overseers did Solomon appoint for the work of building the temple? (a) Three thousand six hundred (2 Chronicles 2:2) (b) Three thousand three hundred (1 Kings 5:16).

Contradiction #15Solomon built a facility containing how many baths? (a) Two thousand (1 Kings 7:26). (b) Over three thousand (2 Chronicles 4:5).

Contradiction #16Of the Israelites who were freed from the Babylonian captivity, how many were the children of Pahrath-Moab? (a) Two thousand eight hundred and twelve (Ezra 2:6). (b) Two thousand eight hundred and eighteen (Nehemiah 7:11).

Contradiction #17How many were the children of Zattu? (a) Nine hundred and forty-five (Ezra 2: (b) Eight hundred and forty-five (Nehemiah 7:13).

Contradiction #18How many were the children of Azgad? (a) One thousand two hundred and twenty-two (Ezra 2:12). (b) Two thousand three hundred and twenty-two (Nehemiah 7:17). Contradiction #19How many were the children of Adin? (a) Four hundred and fifty-four (Ezra 2:15). (b) Six hundred and fifty-five (Nehemiah 7:20).

Contradiction #20How many were the children of Hashum? (a) Two hundred and twenty-three (Ezra 2:19). (b) Three hundred and twenty-eight (Nehemiah 7:22).

Contradiction #21How many were the children of Bethel and Ai? (a) Two hundred and twenty-three (Ezra 2:28). (b) One hundred and twenty-three (Nehemiah 7:32).

Contradiction #22Ezra 2:64 and Nehemiah 7:66 agree that the total number of the whole assembly was 42,360. Yet the numbers do not add up to anything close. The totals obtained from each book is as follows: (a) 29,818 (Ezra). (b) 31, 089 (Nehemiah).

Contradiction #24What was the name of King Abijah's mother? (a) Michaiah, daughter of Uriel of Gibeah (2 Chronicles 13:2). (b) Maachah, daughter of Absalom (2 Chronicles 11:20). But Absalom had only one daughter whose name was Tamar (2 Samuel 14:27).

Contradiction #32How many generations were there from the Babylonian exile until Christ? (a) Matthew says fourteen (Matthew 1:17). (b) But a careful count of the generations reveals only thirteen (see Matthew 1:12-16).

Contradiction #34Was John the Baptist Elijah who was to come? (a) Yes (Matthew 11:14, 17:10-13). (b) No (John 1:19-21).

Contradiction #35Would Jesus inherit David's throne? (a) Yes. So said the angel (Luke 1:32). (b) No, since he is a descendant of Jehoiakim (see Matthew 1:11, 1 Chronicles 3:16). And Jehoiakim was cursed by God so that none of his descendants can sit upon David's throne (Jeremiah 36:30).

Contradiction #36Jesus rode into Jerusalem on how many animals? (a) One - a colt (Mark 11:7; cf. Luke 19:35). And they brought the colt to Jesus and threw their garments on it; and he sat upon it." (b) Two - a colt and an ass (Matthew 21:7). They brought the ass and the colt and put their garments on them and he sat thereon."

Contradiction #37How did Simon Peter find out that Jesus was the Christ? (a) By a revelation from heaven (Matthew16:17). (b) His brother Andrew told him (John 1:41).

Contradiction #38Where did Jesus first meet Simon Peter and Andrew? (a) By the sea of Galilee (Matthew 4:18-22). (b) On the banks of river Jordan (John 1:42). After that, Jesus decided to go to Galilee (John 1:43).

Contradiction #39When Jesus met Jairus was Jairus' daughter already dead? (a) Yes. Matthew 9:18 quotes him as saying, "My daughter has just died." (b) No. Mark 5:23 quotes him as saying, "My little daughter is at the point of death."

Contradiction #44According to the Gospel of John, what did Jesus say about bearing his own witness? (a) "If I bear witness to myself, my testimony is not true"(John 5:31). (b) "Even if I do bear witness to myself, my testimony is true" (John 8:14).

Contradiction #45When Jesus entered Jerusalem did he cleanse the temple that same day? (a) Yes (Matthew 21:12). (b) No. He went into the temple and looked around, but since it was very late he did nothing. Instead, he went to Bethany to spend the night and returned the next morning to cleanse the temple (Mark 11:1-17).

Contradiction #48What did Jesus say about Peter's denial? (a) "The cock will not crow till you have denied me three times" (John 13:38). (b) "Before the cock crows twice you will deny me three times" (Mark 14:30). When the cock crowed once, the three denials were not yet complete (see Mark 14:72). Therefore prediction (a) failed.

Contradiction #50Did Jesus die before the curtain of the temple was torn? (a) Yes (Matthew 27:50-51; Mark 15:37-38). (b) No. After the curtain was torn, then Jesus crying with a loud voice, said, "Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit!" And having said this he breathed his last (Luke 23:45-46).

Contradiction #51Did Jesus say anything secretly? (a) No. "I have said nothing secretly" (John 18:20). (b) Yes. "He did not speak to them without a parable, but privately to his own disciples he explained everything" (Mark 4:34). The disciples asked him "Why do you speak to them in parables?" He said, "To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given" (Matthew 13:10-11).

Contradiction #52Where was Jesus at the sixth hour on the day of the crucifixion? (a) On the cross (Mark 15:23). (b) In Pilate's court (John 19:14).

Contradiction #53The gospels say that two thieves were crucified along with Jesus. Did both thieves mock Jesus? (a) Yes (Mark 15:32). (b) No. One of them mocked Jesus, the other defended Jesus (Luke 23:43).

Contradiction #54Did Jesus ascend to Paradise the same day of the crucifixion? (a) Yes. He said to the thief who defended him, "Today you will be with me in Paradise" (Luke 23:43). (b) No. He said to Mary Magdelene two days later, "I have not yet ascended to the Father" (John 20:17).

Contradiction #55When Paul was on the road to Damascus he saw a light and heard a voice. Did those who were with him hear the voice? (a) Yes (Acts 9:7). (b) No (Acts 22:9).

Contradiction #56When Paul saw the light he fell to the ground. Did his traveling companions also fall to the ground? (a) Yes (Acts 26:14). (b) No (Acts 9:7).

Contradiction #57Did the voice spell out on the spot what Paul's duties were to be? (a) Yes (Acts 26:16-18). (b) No. The voice commanded Paul to go into the city of Damascus and there he will be told what he must do. (Acts 9:7; 22:10).

Contradiction #58When the Israelites dwelt in Shittin they committed adultery with the daughters of Moab. God struck them with a plague. How many people died in that plague? (a) Twenty-four thousand (Numbers 25:1 and 9). (b) Twenty-three thousand (1 Corinthians 10:.

Contradiction #59How many members of the house of Jacob came to Egypt? (a) Seventy souls (Genesis 46:27). (b) Seventy-five souls (Acts 7:14).

Contradiction #60What did Judas do with the blood money he received for betraying Jesus? (a) He bought a field (Acts 1:18). (b) He threw all of it into the temple and went away. The priests could not put the blood money into the temple treasury, so they used it to buy a field to bury strangers (Matthew 27:5).

Contradiction #61How did Judas die? (a) After he threw the money into the temple he went away and hanged himself (Matthew 27:5). (b) After he bought the field with the price of his evil deed he fell headlong and burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out (Acts 1:18).

Contradiction #62Why is the field called "Field of Blood"? (a) Because the priests bought it with the blood money (Matthew 27:. (b) Because of the bloody death of Judas therein (Acts 1:19).

Contradiction #63Who is a ransom for whom? (a) "The Son of Man came . . . to give his life as a ransom for many" (Mark 10:45). " . . . Christ Jesus who gave himself as a ransom for all . . . " (1 Timothy 2:5-6). (b) "The wicked is a ransom for the righteous, and the faithless for the upright" (Proverbs 21:18).

Contradiction #65What was the exact wording on the cross? (a) "This is Jesus the King of the Jews" (Matthew 27:37). (b) "The King of the Jews" (Mark 15:26) (c) "This is the King of the Jews" (Luke 23:38). (d) "Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews" (John 19:19).

Contradiction #66Did Herod want to kill John the Baptist? (a) Yes (Matthew 14:5). (b) No. It was Herodias, the wife of Herod who wanted to kill him. But Herod knew that he was a righteous man and kept him safe (Mark 6:20).

Contradiction #67Who was the tenth disciple of Jesus in the list of twelve? (a) Thaddaeus (Matthew 10:1-4; Mark 3:13-19). (b) Judas son of James is the corresponding name in Luke's gospel (Luke 6:12-16).

Contradiction #68Jesus saw a man sitting at the tax collector's office and called him to be his disciple. What was his name? (a) Matthew (Matthew 9:9). (b) Levi (Mark 2:14; Luke 5:27).

Contradiction #69Was Jesus crucified on the daytime before the Passover meal or the daytime after? (a) After (Mark 14:12-17). (b) Before. Before the feast of the Passover (John 13:1) Judas went out at night (John 13:30). The other disciples thought he was going out to buy supplies to prepare for the Passover meal (John 13:29). When Jesus was arrested, the Jews did not enter Pilate's judgement hall because they wanted to stay clean to eat the Passover (John 18:28). When the judgement was pronounced against Jesus, it was about the sixth hour on the day of Preparation for the Passover (John 19:14).

Contradiction #71In the gospels which say that Jesus prayed to avoid the cross, how many times did he move away from his disciples to pray? (a) Three (Matthew 26:36-46 and Mark 14:32-42). (b) One. No opening is left for another two times. (Luke 22:39-46).

Contradiction #72Matthew and Mark agree that Jesus went away and prayed three times. What were the words of the second prayer? (a) Mark does not give the words but he says that the words were the same as the first prayer (Mark 14:39). (b) Matthew gives us the words, and we can see that they are not the same as in the first (Matthew 26:42).

Contradiction #73What did the centurion say when Jesus dies? (a) "Certainly this man was innocent" (Luke 23:47). (b) "Truly this man was the Son of God" (Mark 15:39).

Contradiction #75According to the gospels, what were the last words of Jesus before he died? (a) "Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit!" (Luke 23:46). (b) "It is finished" (John 19:30).

Contradiction #76When Jesus entered Capernaum he healed the slave of a centurion. Did the centurion come personally to request Jesus for this? (a) Yes (Matthew 8:5). (b) No. He sent some elders of the Jews and his friends (Luke 7:3, 6).

Contradiction #77(a) Adam was told that if and when he eats the forbidden fruit he would die the same day (Genesis 2:17). (b) Adam ate the fruit and went on to live to a ripe old age of 930 years (Genesis 5:5).

Contradiction #78(a) God decided that the life-span of humans will be limited to 120 years (Genesis 6:3). (b) Many people born after that lived longer than 120. Arpachshad lived 438 years. His son Shelah lived 433 years. His son Eber lived 464 years, etc. (Genesis 11:12-16).

Contradiction #79Apart from Jesus did anyone else ascend to heaven? (a) No (John 3:13). (b) Yes. "And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven" (2 Kings 2:11).

Contradiction #80Who was high priest when David went into the house of God and ate the consecrated bread? (a) Abiathar (Mark 2:26). (b) Ahimelech, the father of Abiathar (1 Samuel 21:1; 22:20).

Contradiction #81Was Jesus' body wrapped in spices before burial in accordance with Jewish burial customs? (a) Yes and his female disciples witnessed his burial (John 19:39-40). (b) No. Jesus was simply wrapped in a linen shroud. Then the women bought and prepared spices "so that they may go and anoint him [Jesus]" (Mark 16:1).

Contradiction #82When did the women buy the spices? (a) After "the sabbath was past" (Mark 16:1). (b) Before the sabbath. The women "prepared spices and ointments." Then, "on the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment" (Luke 23:55 to 24:1).

Contradiction #83At what time of day did the women visit the tomb? (a) "Toward the dawn" (Matthew 28:1). (b) "When the sun had risen" (Mark 16:2).

Contradiction #84What was the purpose for which the women went to the tomb? (a) To anoint Jesus' body with spices (Mark 16:1;Luke 23:55 to 24:1). (b) To see the tomb. Nothing about spices here (Matthew 28:1). For no specified reason. In this gospel the wrapping with spices had been done before the sabbath (John 20:1).

Contradiction #85A large stone was placed at the entrance of the tomb. Where was the stone when the women arrived? (a) They saw that the stone was "Rolled back" (Mark 16:4). They found the stone "rolled away from the tomb" (Luke 24:2). They saw that "the stone had been taken away from the tomb" (John 20:1) (b) As the women approached, an angel descended from heaven, rolled away the stone, and conversed with the women. Matthew made the women witness the spectacular rolling away of the stone (Matthew 28:1-6).

Contradiction #86Did anyone tell the women what happened to Jesus' body? (a) Yes. "A young man in a white robe" (Mark 16:5). "Two men . . . in dazzling apparel" later described as angels (Luke 24:4 and 24:23). An angel - the one who rolled back the stone (Matthew 16:2). In each case the women were told that Jesus had risen from the dead (Matthew 28:7; Mark 16:6; Luke 24:5 footnote). (b) No. Mary met no one and returned saying, "They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him" (John 20:2).

Contradiction #87When did Mary Magdelene first meet the resurrected Jesus? And how did she react? (a) Mary and the other women met Jesus on their way back from their first and only visit to the tomb. They took hold of his feet and worshiped him (Matthew 28:9). (b) On her second visit to the tomb Mary met Jesus just outside the tomb. When she saw Jesus she did not recognize him. She mistook him for the gardener. She still thinks that Jesus' body is laid to rest somewhere and she demands to know where. But when Jesus said her name she at once recognized him and called him "Teacher." Jesus said to her, "Do not hold me . . . " (John 20:11 to 17).

Contradiction #88What was Jesus' instruction for his disciples? (a) "Tell my brethren to go to Galilee, and there they will see me" (Matthew 28:10). (b) "Go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God" (John 20:17).

Contradiction #89When did the disciples return to Galilee? (a) Immediately, because when they saw Jesus in Galilee "some doubted" (Matthew 28:17). This period of uncertainty should not persist. (b) After at least 40 days. That evening the disciples were still in Jerusalem (Luke 24:33). Jesus appeared to them there and told them, "stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high" (Luke 24:49). He was appearing to them "during forty days" (Acts 1:3), and "charged them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise . . . "(Acts 1:4).

Contradiction #91Who brought Joseph to Egypt? (a) The Ishmaelites bought Joseph and then "took Joseph to Egypt" (Genesis 37:28). (b) "The Midianites had sold him in Egypt" (Genesis 37:36). Joseph said to his brothers "I am your brother, Joseph, whom you sold into Egypt" (Genesis 45:4).

Contradiction #92Does God change his mind? (a) Yes. The word of the Lord came to Samuel: "I repent that I have made Saul King . . ." (1 Samuel 15:10 to 11). (b) No. God "will not lie or repent; for he is not a man, that he should repent" (1 Samuel 15:29). (c) Yes. "And the Lord repented that he had made Saul King over Israel" (1 Samuel 15:35). Notice that the above three quotes are all from the same chapter of the same book! In addition, the Bible shows that God repented on several other occasions: I. The Lord was sorry that he made man" (Genesis 6:6). " I am sorry that I have made them" (Genesis 6:7) ii."And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do to his people" (Exodus 32:14) iii.(Lots of other such references).

Contradiction #93The Bible says that for each miracle Moses and Aaron demonstrated the same by their secret arts. Then comes the following feat: (a) Moses and Aaron converted all the available water into blood (Exodus 7:20-21). (b) The magicians did the same (Exodus 7:22). This is impossible, since there would have been no water left to convert into blood.

Contradiction #96Does every man sin? (a) Yes. "There is no man who does not sin" (1 Kings 8:46; see also 2 Chronicles 6:36; Proverbs 20:9; Ecclesiastes 7:20; and 1 John 1:8-10). (b) No. True Christians cannot possibly sin, because they are the children of God.

Every one who believes that Jesus is the Christ is a child of God . . (1 John 5:1). "We should be called children of God; and so we are" (1 John 3:1). "He who loves is born of God" (1 John 4:7). "No one born of God commits sin; for God's nature abides in him, and he cannot sin because he is born of God" (1 John 3:9). But, then again, Yes! "If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us" (1 John 1:.

Contradiction #97Who will bear whose burden? (a) "Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ" (Galatians 6:2). (b) "Each man will have to bear his own load" (Galatians 6:5).

Contradiction #99Where was Jesus three days after his baptism? (a) After his baptism, "the spirit immediately drove him out into the wilderness. And he was in the wilderness forty days . . . (Mark 1:12-13). (b) Next day after the baptism, Jesus selected two disciples. Second day: Jesus went to Galilee — two more disciples. Third day: Jesus was at a wedding feast in Cana in Galilee (see John 1:35; 1:43; 2:1-11).

Contradiction #100Was baby Jesus's life threatened in Jerusalem? (a) Yes, so Joseph fled with him to Egypt and stayed there until Herod died (Matthew 2:13 - 23). (b) No. The family fled nowhere. They calmly presented the child at the Jerusalem temple according to the Jewish customs and returned to Galilee (Luke 2:21-40).

Contradiction #101When Jesus walked on water how did the disciples respond? (a) They worshiped him, saying, "Truly you are the Son of God" (Matthew 14:33). (b) "They were utterly astounded, for they did not understand about the loaves, but their hearts were hardened" (Mark 6:51-52).

There are others. For example, Jesus said: "I and the Father are one." John 10: 30. But in another place He said that the Father is greater than I? John 14:28

Take every book for what it is, if you care to study how it originated. But do not reduce it to the bare literal meaning in its own historical context, if you wish to understand its spiritual relevance as Divine Scripture for the Fathers, the Saints and members of the Church from all ages and all parts of the world.

You can begin to see how it's divinely inspired only if you allow the text to absorb all your world, if you begin to live by the "stories". Only then can you see it both as alive and larger than life...

If you will, you can become all flame.Extra caritatem nulla salus.In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness". सर्वभूतहितἌνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas GandhiY dduw bo'r diolch.

Take every book for what it is, if you care to study how it originated. But do not reduce it to the bare literal meaning in its own historical context, if you wish to understand its spiritual relevance as Divine Scripture for the Fathers, the Saints and members of the Church from all ages and all parts of the world.

You can begin to see how it's divinely inspired only if you allow the text to absorb all your world, if you begin to live by the "stories". Only then can you see it both as alive and larger than life...

Take every book for what it is, if you care to study how it originated. But do not reduce it to the bare literal meaning in its own historical context, if you wish to understand its spiritual relevance as Divine Scripture for the Fathers, the Saints and members of the Church from all ages and all parts of the world.

You can begin to see how it's divinely inspired only if you allow the text to absorb all your world, if you begin to live by the "stories". Only then can you see it both as alive and larger than life...

This is great. I enjoy much of your writing.

Woe to me, for I might be a false prophet!

Sometimes I wish I could live up to what I happen to write.

That's pathetic, isn't it?

If u don't than u r a false prophet . I only write what I live or from what I live.

If you will, you can become all flame.Extra caritatem nulla salus.In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness". सर्वभूतहितἌνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas GandhiY dduw bo'r diolch.

Both. The genealogy in Matthew belongs to Joseph whereas the one given by Luke belongs to Mary.

I was explained that Matthews and Lukes genealogy is both of Josephs?.

That is not likely. Joseph cannot have had two different genealogies! Everything about these two genealogies is different. It is as if the Evangelists wanted to exclaim that these did not belong to the same person.

Both. The genealogy in Matthew belongs to Joseph whereas the one given by Luke belongs to Mary.

I was explained that Matthews and Lukes genealogy is both of Josephs?.

One theory is that one is regular lineage of Joseph and the other is Levirate lineage of Joseph. This is possible. However, another is that Matthew gives Joseph's lineage and Luke gives Theotokos', as St Joachim also bore the name Eli (Heli), just as Thomas was also named Didymus, and numerous other examples. There is also a third strand of understanding, that both give Theotokos' lineage--St. Luke gives through lineage of St. Joachim-Eli (Heli) and St. Matthew gives lineage through St. Anna (the brother of Jacob). The middle and latter scenarios provide that the "cursed" line of Soloman and the uncursed line of Nathan are healed and united in the Christ. The second and third scenarios are just as reasonable as the first, as the lineage given on a mother's side would still have the son-in-law (St. Joseph) listed as son, and this is true whether he is son-in-law by betrothal or by marriage.

Most of these are a morph from the old "James Buckner's Tough Questions for the Christian Church".

It was funny it was even linked by the church of satan's web site.

Of course, they never linked the countless answers given to them. These are apologetics 101.

Flickflack,use google. Google each question if you really want the answer.

Otherwise you are just trolling wanting a soap box. Apologetics to these have been around for a long... LONG time. They give people trying to make a point against Christianity quick "ah ha's".

Google the IF you really want the answers. type in each question or a derivative of each question, and put "apologetics" after the question.

You'll find your own answers. Lots and LOTS of apologetics online. I use to do some apologetics. Time and time again have I seen people cut/paste large sets of questions like yours. They never wanted answers, but just wanted to try to "prove" how wrong people were.

Seek and you will find these answers. I'm not dodging your questions either, nor am I baited to answer or proving points for you by not answering.

It's an old game, and I'm far too old and busy to buy into trollish ah'ha's.

It seems to me that when people pose questions like this, they have already decided ahead of time that the religion they refer to is wrong. These are not genuine enquiries from an interested person but as has already been said, attempts to "catch out" the faithful. I am not half as learned as the majority of people on this forum so I can only speak from my own personal experience, which is that there are other kinds of knowing beyond logic. Beyond logic, there is spirit and undeniably, even to the athiest, there is for example, physical knowing (ask any woman that has been allowed to give birth naturally, and how her body knows beyond her mind what is to be done). Arguments about facts and perceived inconsistencies are appropriate; it's certainly better than holding onto doubts, but thinking that is somehow the crux of Christianity is missing the much larger point and giving it too much importance.

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I can no longer cope with the misogynism, bigotry, homophobia and racism here and I have given up this forum. Lord have mercy.

It seems to me that when people pose questions like this, they have already decided ahead of time that the religion they refer to is wrong. These are not genuine enquiries from an interested person but as has already been said, attempts to "catch out" the faithful. I am not half as learned as the majority of people on this forum so I can only speak from my own personal experience, which is that there are other kinds of knowing beyond logic. Beyond logic, there is spirit and undeniably, even to the athiest, there is for example, physical knowing (ask any woman that has been allowed to give birth naturally, and how her body knows beyond her mind what is to be done). Arguments about facts and perceived inconsistencies are appropriate; it's certainly better than holding onto doubts, but thinking that is somehow the crux of Christianity is missing the much larger point and giving it too much importance.

Very perceptive of you. Some people are as you describe. However, others are working out their beliefs. Unfortunately, their "prove me I am wrong to question or disbelief xyz" type of aggressive approach rubs folks the wrong way and they consequently do not get the help that they seek.

What are some opinions on the contradictions in scripture being on purpose, so we might search deeper?

Which contradiction did you have in mind?

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If you will, you can become all flame.Extra caritatem nulla salus.In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness". सर्वभूतहितἌνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas GandhiY dduw bo'r diolch.

What are some opinions on the contradictions in scripture being on purpose, so we might search deeper?

Which contradiction did you have in mind?

I don't know specifically, I just read on another blog that some biblical exegetes like Origin put for the idea that contradictions in scpripture were deliberate and I was wondering if this idea had any weight to it.

I think it is possible that there are apparent contradictions, implied or outright stated, though the meaning becomes more clear when you delve into them (or are shown the answer by a wiser person). For instance, Jesus says "He that is not with me is against me" (Matt. 12:30) and also "for he that is not against us is for us." (Luke 9:50; Mark 9:40) Both are true, I guess, properly understood (and applied in varying contexts)...

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"Christian America is finally waking up to what fraternities and biker gangs have known for years: hazing works!"

I think it is possible that there are apparent contradictions, implied or outright stated, though the meaning becomes more clear when you delve into them (or are shown the answer by a wiser person). For instance, Jesus says "He that is not with me is against me" (Matt. 12:30) and also "for he that is not against us is for us." (Luke 9:50; Mark 9:40) Both are true, I guess, properly understood (and applied in varying contexts)...

And the Old Testament contradictions are due (according to much modern scholarship) to how the Old Testament was the result of a gradual, centuries-long integration of different Israelite narratives. Thus, the two creation narratives, one of which has animals created before man; the other, animals after man.

So, clearly, the person or persons who finally integrated all these different Israelite narratives (under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit) did not view these "contradictions" as something to try to minimize, or hide, or eliminate. For him/them, the "contradictions" may have simply been a result of how different humans can view God's presence, action, and love, in the same event (e.g., the event of creation), even if different humans have different ideas of how exactly the event took place.

I also think that the allegorical, etc., approach of Origen, can offer a more contemplative, meditative, approach to these "contradictions" too.

« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 07:33:49 AM by Jetavan »

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If you will, you can become all flame.Extra caritatem nulla salus.In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness". सर्वभूतहितἌνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas GandhiY dduw bo'r diolch.