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Telecom immunity stalemate halts FISA debate

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It seems highly unlikely Reid would have the 60 votes necessary to even bring the House bill up for debate in the Senate.
John Shinkle

After months of debate on a controversial electronic surveillance law, Congress heads into a two-week spring break deadlocked with the White House on the issue, raising the possibility that resolution could be delayed until after the November election.

On Friday, the House passed an update of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act which did not include retroactive immunity for telecom companies that aided the government after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks — the key sticking point in the ongoing standoff.

President Bush has been pushing the House to take up the Senate-passed version of the FISA bill that includes retroactive immunity, arguing that it received the support of more than two-thirds of the chamber and would help ensure the cooperation of telecom companies. The communications companies are facing nearly 40 lawsuits over their cooperation in the program.

House Democratic leaders stiff-armed Bush, however, arguing that existing laws can adequately protect the country while they deliberate the FISA overhaul. And now, having stared down the president on a key national security issue and enjoyed a week of largely positive headlines, congressional aides and outside experts say there is less of a sense of urgency surrounding the issue.

Bush has promised to veto the House bill if it ever reaches his desk.

“I think this could drag out through the election,” said Caroline Fredrickson, legislative director for the American Civil Liberties Union, which opposes immunity. “For a lot of Democrats, they would much rather see the next president — even if it is John McCain — sign whatever they pass into law.”

While Fredrickson has an ally in Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), who voted against the bill offering immunity last month, it seems highly unlikely Reid would have the 60 votes necessary to even bring the House bill up for debate in the Senate.

Aides to Reid said Monday that lawmakers would “soon” begin negotiations over the recess with the hope of working toward a conference on the House and Senate bills.

However, it appears to be a long road, with the immunity issue dividing the Democratic caucus and deep divisions remaining between the two parties.

After allowing a temporary electronic surveillance law to expire on Feb. 15, there are no hard deadlines to meet until August, when the surveillance orders authorizing the government to spy on potential terrorists expire.

“I don’t know if there is a dire need to get it done tomorrow,” said one Senate Democratic aide. “Obviously we would like to see a resolution on this, but that is really hard to do when the House is voting on legislation that won’t pass the Senate and Republicans won’t even come to the table.”

Republicans have refused to attend most meetings on the House bill, instead urging Democrats to hold an up-or-down vote on the Senate bill, which passed with 68 votes last month.

On Friday, Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman John D. Rockefeller IV (D-W.Va.) said that “considerable work remains” in order to reconcile the two bills.

The issue also may get pushed aside in the coming months.

With the economy teetering on the brink of recession, Democratic leaders have planned an aggressive push for April and May, with renewed emphasis on a housing bill. And with Army Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, set to return to Capitol Hill on April 7 and a potential Defense Authorization Bill pending, debate over the Iraq war will resurface.

In fact, advocates such as the ACLU’s Fredrickson are already looking past the Senate, focusing on House Democrats.

“We are really continuing to focus on the House,” said Fredrickson. “It is critical that they stand strong and defend their position.”

Republicans are hardly waiting around for Democrats to announce their plans and have gone on the attack, eager to portray Democrats as ignoring a key national security issue.

“Doing nothing has become the hallmark of this Democrat-led Congress,” said Ken Spain, a spokesman for the National Republican Congressional Committee. “It is unconscionable for House Democrats to continue to ignore our national security needs and then take vacation after vacation.”

Spain said Republicans will be taking to the airwaves in targeted districts, hoping to sway constituents to support immunity.

Democrats, however, have dug in for a long fight. “We are not going to blink when the Bush administration engages in fear mongering,” said Rep. Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.), the chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee.

Gridlock could be the result. “I don’t see this impasse being resolved anytime soon,” said Thomas Mann, a scholar at the Brookings Institution and an expert on congressional gridlock. “The [Democrats] are going to let this reverberate for months.”

With the economy teetering on the brink of recession, Democratic leaders have planned an aggressive push for April and May, with renewed emphasis on a housing bill. And with Army Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, set to return to Capitol Hill on April 7 and a potential Defense Authorization Bill pending, debate over the Iraq war will resurface.

BushCo has destroyed the viability of America's military and now the economy is collapsing.

Heckuva job, Bushie.

There isn't any need to rush FISA through. The intelligence community has plenty of tools left to monitor terrorists.

Meantime let's prosecute anyone who gave up American's information illegal and also those who used the illegally-gained information.

If American Citizens are allowed to sue the telecoms for illegally spying on them, then the next step would be to sue George Bush and his cronies for pushing the telecoms into the illegal spying and providing the equipment and manpower to the telecoms to do the spying. So Bush is just protecting his own personal interests by vetoing this bill.

TeamPolitico: Mar. 18, 2008 - 4:58 AM EST

“Doing nothing has become the hallmark of this Democrat-led Congress,” said Ken Spain, a spokesman for the National Republican Congressional Committee.

More partisan rhetoric. The Republicans and Democrats should both take a deep breath and do the Nations work instead of playing these childish games.

TeamPolitico: Mar. 18, 2008 - 4:58 AM EST

Republicans have refused to attend most meetings on the House bill

How are they ever going to work anything out if they won't even talk?

TeamPolitico: Mar. 18, 2008 - 4:58 AM EST

Aides to Reid said Monday that lawmakers would “soon” begin negotiations over the recess with the hope of working toward a conference on the House and Senate bills.

So just who are they going to negotiate with, if the Republicans won't even talk to them?

TeamPolitico: Mar. 18, 2008 - 4:58 AM EST

Democrats, however, have dug in for a long fight. “We are not going to blink when the Bush administration engages in fear mongering,” said Rep. Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.), the chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee.

Again more partisan rhetoric... When are these people in congress going to put aside their personal feelings and do what they were elected to do?

****

I have to wonder if the Bush Republicans, really believe their argument holds water.

They don't want the telecoms to be liable for breaking the law this time, so other companies will not be afraid to break the law next time some other fascist leader wants them too.

I can't believe Bush and his followers are really trying to push this off as being "good" for America.

If American Citizens are allowed to sue the telecoms for illegally spying on them, then the next step would be to sue George Bush and his cronies for pushing the telecoms into the illegal spying and providing the equipment and manpower to the telecoms do the spying. So Bush is just protecting his own personal interests by vetoing this bill.

Bush will issue blanket pardons before he leaves office to clean up the mess o' folk who would otherwise testify against him.

I guess immunity for telecoms is more important than the SAFETY OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE !! I guess Bush is NOT a man of his word. Bush and his pathetic party are the dullards who keep crying like babies about how we are at risk without this bill signed into law. WELL, IT'S ON HIS DESK !!!! SIGN IT IF YOU REALLY CARE ABOUT OUR SAFETY!! but we all know that you are and always have been LYING just to get your corporate donors off the hook for breaking the laws of this country that YOU are sworn to uphold !!!

The issue has already been addressed by two constitutional amendments and the original FISA bill. Immunity is irrelevant unless laws have been broken, and morally indefensible if they have. We have already allowed our fear of terrorists to change far too much that is good about our Nation, giving them another win by passing restrictions on our liberties will make their little hearts sing. I don't think that's what we're after!

There's nothing to "work out." It's a circus trumped up for political theater. If this were a serious issue it would have already been worked out. This is simply a failure of Congressional leadership. Would never have happened with Tip O'Neil at the helm but these weak sister second stringers are incapable of leading the country because their focus is just on hating the president and "going after" him in retribution for Clinton disgracing the office and the country as many lefties here freely admit. The crucial business of the country is meaningless to them.

No, if the government trys to "compel" a company or person to disclose private information, or to "comply" with their demands, that company or person has the right to demand a warrant or object, on the basis of "IT'S AGAINST THE LAW," then the government bears the burden of proving the 4th amendment doen't apply. This involves courts, judges, lawyers, you know, the kind of people who know about this stuff. The one company that REFUSED, because the government HAD NO WARRANT, was QWEST. Oh yeah, then the CEO was investigated by the Bush administration's (not the people's), Justice Department and...ta da!! Now he's defending himself against criminal charges. We all know if you drink the kool aid you get a pass from the Justice Department, if not, you get investigated. These companies are not the average "private citizen," as Bush likes to call them, they have highly trained and paid attorneys to tell them what the law is, and they chose to break the law. Now, Bush is more concerned with saving the butts of his crooked, criminal friends than he is with an actual bill.

Can you imagine a Republican having the stones to call the Democratic Congress do-nothing? Hell,the Democrats have five years left to catch up to the do-nothing 109th! They remind me of a little kid that can't get their own way,and,as usual,they are looking out for corporate America. Guess they haven't figured out this Patriot Act,War on Terror,etc. shams have caught up with them. GOP......go quietly into the abyss and pocket what little,if any,credebility you have left.

Darn that nasty old GOP for wanting to keep Americans from losing their jobs. Why can't they understand that dozens of nuisance lawsuits against the telecomms by trial lawyers forcing the telecomms into bankrupcy and laying off tens of thousands is a good thing for America?

Guess they haven't figured out this Patriot Act,War on Terror,etc. shams have caught up with them.

Yeah! Don't they realize that NOT being attacked again since 9/11 is outrageous and that we demand to be left unprotected like we were on 9/10 because giving up a little extra freedom just to protect American lives is unAmerican and we demand the freedom to be killed!

The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are taking a huge toll on the American military. Who says so? The nation’s military officers, who are in as good a position as anyone to know.

Two Washington-based think tanks, the Center for a New American Security and the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, through its Foreign Policy magazine, have done the nation a huge service by surveying more than 3,400 current and former military officers, one of the few comprehensive polls of this segment of the population in the last 50 years.

Here are some results from the survey, which is being released today:

60 percent of the officers surveyed say the military is weaker today than five years ago, largely because of Iraq, Afghanistan and the punishing rate of troop deployments. More than half say the military is weaker than it was 10 or 15 years ago. Some 88 percent say the demands of the Iraq war have stretched the military “dangerously thin.” The officers rate their confidence in Mr. Bush — who was hugely popular with the military in the 2000 election — at a mere 5.5 on a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the best.

There’s more:

More than 80 percent of the officers say it would be “unreasonable” to ask the military to wage another major war today. When asked how prepared the United States is to execute a military mission against Iran or North Korea, both of whose nuclear programs are a cause of great concern in Washington, officers put both below 5 on a 1 to 10 scale. When asked to judge the readiness of the military services to fight, the Army, which has shouldered the bulk of the Iraq war, rated the worst score — 4.7 on a scale of 1 to 10.

Not all of the news was bad. Sixty-four percent of the officers felt that despite the strain of war, military morale was high. Only 2 percent believe America needs a new generation of nuclear weapons.

As Mr. Bush prepares to wrap up eight years in office, he leaves behind a legacy of failed adventurism in his war of choice – Iraq; a potential loss in the war he needed to fight and win — Afghanistan; and a proud nation — America — that has usually been a force for good in the world, but increasingly is not seen that way around the world.

Mr. Bush seems to believe that history will judge him well because of his work in protecting the nation. The survey of officers’ thinking suggest that when the story of his presidency is written, national defense will be chalked up as yet another Bush administration failure.

I guess used up equipment, used up troops, lowering of recruitment qualifications, gigantic signing bonuses, and stop loss means great things for YOUR military??

Thes eare still the finest men and women in uniform on the planet and the best fighting force anywhere. You bet they're chewing through equipment fast in one of the world's harshest environments and it's going to be expensive to replace but it's worth it and they're worth it no matter how much you spit on them, denigrate them, and call them losers.

Even your mommy does not believe the economy is going even slightly well.

Your doom & gloom view of the economy is from a political perspective. You are incapable of an objective view therefore your opinion is worthless.

As Mr. Bush prepares to wrap up eight years in office, he leaves behind a legacy of failed adventurism in his war of choice – Iraq; a potential loss in the war he needed to fight and win — Afghanistan; and a proud nation — America — that has usually been a force for good in the world, but increasingly is not seen that way around the world.

The is typical yellow journalism from the Treason Times and explains why its circulation is tanking. These idiotic comments are not supported by the survey results. Any military person understands the reasons behind those answers but idiot liberals are drawing irrelevant and unrelated conclusions based on a lack of real facts.

The is typical yellow journalism from the Treason Times and explains why its circulation is tanking. These idiotic comments are not supported by the survey results. Any military person understands the reasons behind those answers but idiot liberals are drawing irrelevant and unrelated conclusions based on a lack of real facts.

So you can't discuss the article on a point by point basis and instead use juvenile rhetoric to try and discredit the source?

Two Washington-based think tanks, the Center for a New American Security and the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, through its Foreign Policy magazine, have done the nation a huge service by surveying more than 3,400 current and former military officers, one of the few comprehensive polls of this segment of the population in the last 50 years.

Here are some results from the survey, which is being released today:

60 percent of the officers surveyed say the military is weaker today than five years ago, largely because of Iraq, Afghanistan and the punishing rate of troop deployments.

More than half say the military is weaker than it was 10 or 15 years ago.

Some 88 percent say the demands of the Iraq war have stretched the military “dangerously thin.”

The officers rate their confidence in Mr. Bush — who was hugely popular with the military in the 2000 election — at a mere 5.5 on a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the best.

There’s more:

More than 80 percent of the officers say it would be “unreasonable” to ask the military to wage another major war today.

When asked how prepared the United States is to execute a military mission against Iran or North Korea, both of whose nuclear programs are a cause of great concern in Washington, officers put both below 5 on a 1 to 10 scale.

When asked to judge the readiness of the military services to fight, the Army, which has shouldered the bulk of the Iraq war, rated the worst score — 4.7 on a scale of 1 to 10.