Okay, I know the Denner pitch that if you don't buy it, we will say mean things about you on the internet, and I also know that it's an evolution upon a cross between a scenario from the Tome of Necromancy and Arkham Horror rules, but I have some specific questions to determine if it's a game I might actually play or just the sort of thing that might look nice on my shelf:

Number of players ?

Average playing time (average setup time) ?

Amount of table space required ?

How do your rules address the issue of a player "quarterbacking" for all the other players?

Can I carry it in my messenger bag ? What are the physical dimensions and approxaimate weight of the game box ? How well do the minis stand up to the sort of shaking around that happens when stuffed sideways into an overloaded messenger bag?

After much deliberation and reviewing your feedback, we have decided to cancel the current campaign for Darkest Night: Second Edition and relaunch it again sometime next week. With all of the adjustments you desire for this campaign, it just makes more sense to start fresh -- and we will do so soon.

During this interlude, we will study our campaign statistics and your thoughtful analysis to come up with an improved Kickstarter campaign that should better meet your standards. This new campaign will address the “minis vs. standees” issue, the shipping costs for overseas backers, and what we can do regarding your cost options.

We have read over the comments here and the BGG forums. If you wish to comment to us privately, please do so via email here: info[at]victorypointgames[dot]com; if you want to continue this discussion publicly, please also make a post about it on BGG here: this thread here. We very much want your feedback about this campaign’s potential reorganization and restructuring, and these next few days are your window of opportunity.

There will be an update announcement on here when the project relaunches, obviously, but should you wish to be notified directly the moment the revised campaign goes live, you can sign up here to receive an email.

This has been a bumpy ride; we want to thank you very sincerely for your support. With it, we will come back stronger with a Darkest Night second edition campaign that you will love.

Yeah, sorry for the irregularity. The Kickstarter should be back next week.

Josh_Kablack wrote:

Number of players ?

Average playing time (average setup time) ?

Amount of table space required ?

How do your rules address the issue of a player "quarterbacking" for all the other players?

Can I carry it in my messenger bag ? What are the physical dimensions and approxaimate weight of the game box ? How well do the minis stand up to the sort of shaking around that happens when stuffed sideways into an overloaded messenger bag?

Number of players: 1-4 normally, up to 6 with some of the variant rules

Playing Time: About 2-3 hours. Setup is pretty straightforward, though you do have to shuffle about 10 decks.

Table Space: The game board itself is 22"x17", and each player will need space for a character sheet and a tableau of ability cards. You might find this easier to visualize if you watch some of the preview videos, such as this and this.

Quarterbacking: This is not addressed explicitly; however, several players I've spoken with think that Darkest Night does pretty well on this issue because of a couple of factors:

1) Unlike many co-ops, Darkest Night does not keep you constantly on the defensive, so there are opportunities for players to pursue their own personal agendas without immediately jeopardizing the group's survival (which reduces the feeling of there being "one right move", especially near the start of the game)

2) Because of the wide variety of abilities in the game (of which each player will have several at any given time), it is difficult for one player to keep track of everyone else's abilities in sufficient detail to tell them how to use them all (your ability cards are directly sitting in front of you, not the other players)

Ultimately, I feel that "quarterbacking" results mostly from differences in skill between the players, and that's a hard problem to solve (competitive games generally break even worse than co-ops when faced with this problem). It certainly can happen in Darkest Night. But I think you'll find Darkest Night fares better than many co-ops in this regard.

Dimensions: I don't have precise stats off-hand, but the box is something like 22"x17"x3" (big enough to hold all expansion content, and for the board to only have to fold once) and with everything in it weighs around 3 kg.

I am no expert on minis, but I believe they're...typical gray plastic minis. 28mm scale.

I do not know much about how payment works for Kickstarters, but I asked the team and was told this:

"During the Kickstarter campaign, we only accept funding through Kickstarter itself to avoid logistics and communications issues. After the Kickstarter is over, there will be a pledge manager that you can use but the game will not be available for the Kickstarter price."

It would be pretty tough to price out a Kickstarter campaign and MSRP for the game if we didn't even have a manufacturer yet; we shopped around for printers months ago (though I was not directly involved).

From what I understand, The Game Crafter is a print-on-demand service targeting small-scale creators, so their prices and quality are not competitive for large print runs, which is the whole point of this campaign (Victory Point Games already does their own in-house print-on-demand, which is what we used for the first edition). That said, I haven't looked at them in detail in several years.

It is also possible to buy ONLY the miniatures without the board game, if you just want some fantasy hero minis.

Bump for great justice. Four days left to pledge to the kickstarter, they've unlocked all game content, and if you're allergic to Kickstarter the website you can write to VPG and they might either enter you into their pledge manager manually or take your card data over the phone (worked for me).

Co-op dungeoncrawler thing, with minis for use in D&D games. CMON did Boobie Knights and Wrath of Kings (I have my minis and rulebooks and all that from both of these Kickstarters), as well as a few other "run about a dungeon" games in chibi-form (a friend received his and had a lot of fun with it), so they're reliable for completion and delivery. Also if it gets to 1.1mil in funding, there's another freebie added, so I totally want it to reach that._________________

Count Arioch the 28th wrote:

There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.

Saw this in Essen: Dwarf War.
A 3d Board game. They had some Prototypes there, sadly it does'nt look like they will get their goal._________________

Red_Rob wrote:

I mean, I'm pretty sure the Mayans had a prophecy about what would happen if Frank and PL ever agreed on something. PL will argue with Frank that the sky is blue or grass is green, so when they both separately piss on your idea that is definitely something to think about.