{"subclass": null, "text_id": "spoken/court-transcript/Day3PMSession", "text": "\n\n \nIN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF \nPENNSYLVANIA\n\nCase Number 4:04-CV-02688\nTAMMY J. KITZMILLER, et al., Plaintiffs \nvs.\nDOVER AREA SCHOOL DISTRICT;\nDOVER AREA SCHOOL DISTRICT BOARD OF DIRECTORS, Defendants\n\nAFTERNOON SESSION\n\nTRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS OF BENCH TRIAL\n\nBefore: HONORABLE JOHN E. JONES, III\n\nDate : September 28,\n\nPlace : Courtroom Number 2, 9th Floor Federal Building Walnut Street \nHarrisburg, Pennsylvania\n\nCOUNSEL PRESENT:\n\nERIC J. ROTHSCHILD, ESQ. WITOLD J. WALCZAK, ESQ. STEPHEN G. HARVEY, \nESQ. RICHARD B. KATSKEE, ESQ.\nFor Plaintiffs\n\nPATRICK T. GILLEN, ESQ. RICHARD THOMPSON, ESQ. ROBERT J. MUISE, EQ\nFor Defendants\n\nLori A. Shuey, RPR, CRR Official Court Reporter\n\nINDEX\n\nWITNESSES\n\nFor Plaintiffs: \nJulie Smith \nChristy Rehm\nBeth Eveland \n\n\n\n \n\n (The following discussion occurred in chambers:)\n\n\n Let's go on the record. We are in chambers, and this is \nthe matter of Kitzmiller, of course, versus Dover Area School \nDistrict. We have assembled as planned with respect to the issue of \ncertain subpoenas that have been issued to reporters Joseph Maldonado \nand Heidi Bernhard-Bubb.\n\nPresent in chambers are counsel for both the plaintiffs and the \ndefendants, and in addition to that, let me ask that you enter your \nappearances specially, presumably as counsel for the individuals we \nreferred to in our orders collectively as \"reporters.\"\n\n\n\n I'm here, Niles Benn, on behalf of both of the reporters, \nHeidi Bernard-Bubb and Joseph Maldonado. And with me is Terance Barna,\nan attorney in my office, as well.\n\n\n\n All right. Now, previously, on September 12th, the Court \nentered an order which went to the motion for reconsideration. That \nrelated specifically to -- filed by the reporters. That went \nspecifically to our August 2nd order which, in effect, said that the \nreporters would have to testify at certain depositions. Subsequently, \nthe reporters were, if memory serves, approximately eight days ago, \nsubpoenaed to testify by the plaintiffs in the case-in-chief. Yet \nanother motion to quash or for alternative relief was filed by the \nreporters through Mr. Benn's office. By our order of last Thursday \n-- the date escapes me, I think it was Thursday -- the Court denied \nrelief in that matter. The Court was advised that yesterday, on \nSeptember the 27th, the reporters, both of them, showed up at the \nappointed times for their depositions as appropriately scheduled by the\ndefendants, and I'm advised -- and I'll correct this if I'm wrong \n-- that both reporters cited the reporter's privilege that they consider\nto exist under the First Amendment so that they would not answer \nany questions at those depositions. We're brought here today by that, \nas well as the fact that I presume you're here because the reporters\nhave been properly subpoenaed to appear in the plaintiffs' \ncase-in-chief. Now, have I mischaracterized anything from your \nstandpoint? \n\n\n\n No, everything that you said is correct, Your \nHonor. \n\n\n\n Now, the most salient question then is, with \nrespect to the reporters' appearance today, is it your understanding \nthat the reporters are intending to invoke the same privilege cited \nby them yesterday, if called, when called, to testify by the \nplaintiffs?\n\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n\n All right.\n\n\n\n But that's the reason why I had asked if we could have \nthis conference.\n\n\n\n The floor is yours.\n\n\n\n Thanks. I'm not here to discuss law. I think we have \ndiscussed the law ad nauseam with respect to briefs, argument. I \ncertainly understand the opinion and orders that have been rendered by\nthe Court, and I appreciate them.\n\nAnd I don't want there to be a misunderstanding in terms as to this\ncase being wrongly focused. And what I mean by that, with regard to\nall of you in this room is that we've got approximately 40 people from\nthe media that are observing this trial in the courtroom, plus \noutside of the courtroom.\n\nIn speaking for myself, it would be my humble opinion that if these \nparties were called to the stand to testify and refuse to testify, \nas I just indicated to you, Your Honor, that I think the focus of \nthis trial all of the sudden isn't addressed as to intelligent \ndesign, but rather the media is going to be very much concerned in \nterms as to these stringers, not full-time employees, not employees at\nall, standing up for what they think is right. And I really truly \nbelieve in my heart of hearts the focus gets misdirected. I really \ntruly do mean that, because I don't think that should be the focus \nof this case.\n\nAs a result of that, Mr. Barna and I have spent days in an effort \nto try to see if there was a means by which we could somehow \nameliorate the problem so that, in a certain sense, everybody gets \nwhat they want. I clearly will not get what I want, because at the \nend of the day, if I agree that my reporters are going to testify \npredicated upon something that I want to propose here, that's more \nthan I would want, because I stand by the fact and they stand by \nthe fact that there's a reporter's privilege here.\n\nThey refuse to testify at a deposition, and my suggestion to them \nwas that if we were capable of resolving something as a result of \nthis conference, that they would then attend a deposition, because I \nbelieve the defendants would have a right to cross-examine them or \notherwise examine them prior to them taking the stand. And based upon\nthat, they would then testify in court.\n\nBut we have several issues. One is that when we filed our motion to\nquash last week, quite honestly, we thought we did it in a timely \nfashion because we filed it only after we were served with the \nsubpoena. Your Honor summarily dismissed that motion to quash, so, in \neffect, if my reporters were to be called upon to testify today by \nthe plaintiffs, they're undressed. They've got no protective order at \nall. They're just regular people. Because the order I believe that \nyou had previously entered related to the deposition and not related \nto their appearance in court. So that raises an issue for us because\nclearly we would otherwise object to them taking the stand under the\norder as it currently exists or the motion that you're -- your \nposition that the motion to quash could not stand.\n\nI interpret the order and the amended order to mean that Your Honor,\nin a sense, has addressed them as fact witnesses. I don't think you\nactually come out and use the word \"fact witnesses,\" but as one \nreads the order, that's the implication. And you initially had \nindicated that you did not feel that the reporter's privilege stood \nin this kind of a case.\n\nThese two newspapers respectively go to approximately 89 municipal meetings\nin terms of different municipalities and school districts. And \nironically -- in a sense, I have to commend both Mr. Maldonado and \nMs. Bernard-Bubb because, again, they're paid per story. They get \nanywhere between $40 and $50 a story. They might make $300, $400 a \nweek if they write X number of stories, and that's it. And the \nstories that they write predominantly are municipal stories.\n\nShe's a full-time mom. She's breastfeeding. She has a seven-month old \nchild, and so she works at night when her husband is at home. He's \na schoolteacher. Mr. Maldonado owns a little deli in the market in \nYork, and he home-schools his son, his youngest son who has learning \ndisabilities. And he's been doing that for the last three years. So \nthis is just supplemental income to them because they're not very \nwealthy people. But yet without a lot of education in terms of \njournalism, they believe that what they're standing for is the right \nthing.\n\nI don't have control over them as I would an employee of the Daily \nRecord or the Dispatch because they are stringers and independent. So \nhaving said that, their fear is that because of all those \nmunicipalities that they cover and the school districts that they \ncover, that at least in the Middle District Court, should a matter \ncome up similar to this case, then they are exposed as a fact \nwitness.\n\nI've related to them, quite frankly, this is the first case we've \never had in federal court in the years that I've been doing \nnewspaper law, and most of our cases are in county courts, and so, \nyou know, there's a different issue there. But having said that, the \nconcern that I have is that there is a precedent being set in the \ncounties that these people otherwise work.\n\nSo how do I make it better? Well, we provided an affidavit, and \nthat affidavit indicated that we, if called upon to testify, would \nvalidate the authenticity of the articles that were written. We did \nthat, in effect, to offer to both sides so that we wouldn't \notherwise have to testify. Accepted by the plaintiffs, not accepted by\nthe defendants. Defendants wanted to have the right of \ncross-examination.\n\nAnd at the time when you wrote the original order and you used the \nwords \"perceived, saw, and heard,\" we were concerned, as you well \nknow, with the word \"perceived\" in terms as to what's the thought \nprocess. And there was dialogue on the phone amongst all of us, and \nyou made it very clear that you did not want any testimony that \nwould otherwise relate to biases and prejudices. And, in fact, when \nyou reviewed the notes of the reporters, you had also indicated that \nyour review of Heidi Bubb's notes and the e-mails clearly evidence \nthat there was no bias in the writings, those writings.\n\nThe concern that we currently have is that the order reads, in \neffect, that they have to testify as fact witnesses, predicated upon \nmy interpretation, as to what is otherwise unpublished material so \nthat, for example -- just using this for example.\n\n\n\n That's not my intention.\n\n\n\n No, no, but I --\n\n\n\n Well, that's not my intention. And I wanted to let you \ngo as far as you could, and I think I have to interject and I \nwant to interject and I want to be clear, because I think it's \nimportant that I do that. Let me address a couple points that you \nmade.\n\nFirst of all, I understand and deeply respect the position that \nyou're in in this case. And by saying that the motion was untimely, \nit was not legally untimely, it was untimely in my view only in the\nsense that it came, as I said, on the eve of trial, when we knew \nthat there was going to be an issue with respect to their testimony \nat trial. It was an attempt to bring this to a head. It was \nsuccessful in that respect. It was not successful in solving the \nproblem, but it was successful to bringing it to a head. So to that\nextent, I succeeded, good, bad, or indifferent.\n\nWith respect to the point that you made as it relates to their \ntestimony at trial, that is a very valid point. However, I will tell\nyou that the sense of my opinion as it related to their deposition \ntestimony and as reconsidered and as honed in the reconsideration, was\nthat it was meant to apply -- the general thrust of that, the \nprotections, if you will, in that opinion were meant to apply in the\nsame sense to their testimony at trial, if they chose to testify, \nand they would be protected in every way by the Court, and they \nwould not be questioned in the broader sense. So it would not revert\nback to an unprotected realm, if you will, at the time of trial.\n\nTo be as clear as I can be, at issue in this case -- and I can't \nparticularly be concerned about precedential value. I understand your \nconcern in that regard. I have to try this case the best way that \nI know how. The concern in this case, and it is a vital concern by\nall parties, is that we have, as you well know, to restate the \nobvious, we have newspaper articles within which there are quotes from\nindividuals. Those quotes go, at least in one sense, to the purpose \nbehind the policy that was enacted by the Dover School Board.\n\nThe simple issue here, because it is the Court's understanding that \nthese individuals have denied that they made these remarks, is from \nthe plaintiffs' standpoint how can they get something that is, in my \nview, on the purpose test, which clearly goes to the truth of the \nmatter asserted, how do they get these newspaper articles into \nevidence? Well, they can't, in my view, without the reporters \ntestifying.\n\nThe defendants might say that even with the reporters testifying, they\ncan't get them in. I think that's their argument. But at the very \nleast, in my view, and I think the plaintiffs might agree with this,\nthe reporters would have to testify.\n\nI didn't say this strictly in the opinion, perhaps, but my opinion \nwas not meant to allow the testimony of the reporters to go in any \nway, in particular, outside the four corners of the affidavits \nrendered by the reporters. I can't say that to the word, and that's \nwhy the opinions were crafted the way that they were. The Court has \nto have some discretion on the questioning.\n\nBut I was as clear as I could possibly be that what is at issue \nhere would be, for example, the particular events that the reporters \nwrote about and questions such as -- simple questions, did they attend \nthe meeting, did they hear them say the comments, did they write the\nstory immediately after, did they take notes at the time of the \nmeeting.\n\nI thought my opinion was clear in that regard, and as you \nappropriately characterize, no questions as to bias or motivation or \nreasons to misrepresent quotes would be allowed in. There I believe \nwe would decidedly fly in the face of established case law.\n\nI did not view and do not view the law as providing that there is \nsome exhaustion requirement, although I understand some cases have said\nthat. In this particular fact situation -- and I do think, I will \nsay, on the issue of precedent, you can distinguish cases of -- and \nI'm not so sure I would be as fearful as some might be as to \nprecedential value. I think this case is somewhat distinguishable, and \nI don't know that a judge in another situation would knee-jerk allow \nthis type of testimony. We are in a very unique situation here, and \nthat's what we have.\n\nFinally, the last thing that I want to do -I'm answering soliloquy \nwith soliloquy here. I'm not sure if this is a dialogue. Finally, I \nam acutely cognizant of the fact that this trial has abundant media \ncoverage, and it is surely not my intent to force a constitutional \nconfrontation with two reporters and to create a side show that we \ndon't need to. That's why we're meeting in chambers.\n\nBut I'll tell you that if it's their persistent position that they \ndon't want to testify, then we'll go on the record -- now, I'm not \ngoing to put them on the witness stand. I don't think it's necessary\nto do that. I would bring you and the reporters, I will tell you, \nto the bar. I will swear them in, I will have them sworn in. I \nwill ask you the question whether they're going to testify. I will \nallow them to speak for themselves on that point, and then we'll \ndecide what we're going to do at that point.\n\nI don't know what else to do, but I'm not going to go through the \ncharade of having them take the stand and assert, you know, as \narticulately as they can the privilege that they believe that they \ncan avail themselves of.\n\n\n\n That's fine.\n\n\n\n I interrupted you, but I think it was necessary to do \nthat.\n\n\n\n Well, let me share with you why I have the issue that I \nhave. About a week and a half ago I had a telephone dialogue with \nEric because I had proposed to Eric the possibility that in light of\nyour most current order and because you took out the issues of \nbiases and things of that nature and because we're going to be \ncalled to trial by Eric, that maybe he should be speaking to Pat to\nsee whether they would be willing to accept the affidavit in lieu \nof the testimony.\n\n\n\n I think we're beyond that.\n\n\n\n Well, and then what happened was, we had a conference \ncall, Eric, Pat, several others in Pat's office and myself and Terry.\nThey indicated that they would not. And then in the course of that \nconversation, the defendants counsel had stated, for example, we would \nlike the opportunity to ask if they heard Mr. So and So say \nsomething, why didn't they write that. That's what I'm concerned about\nwith respect to --\n\n\n\n I'm not going to allow that question.\n\n\n\n But you weren't at the deposition, meaning you don't know \nthat that question wouldn't be allowed and quite frankly yesterday you\nwere in trial.\n\n\n\n I said, though, very clearly in the last order, I \nthought, in the September 12th order, that I would be available. And \nI thought, when I heard that the reporters, quite frankly, appeared \nfor depositions, that when I was on a break, I was going to hear \nan accumulated list of questions that were objected to and that I \nwould have to rule on those questions.\n\nNow, I don't have time to preside over a deposition at this late \ndate. And I know that you respect that. You're experienced counsel \nand you know that. I do know from my private practice experience \nthat I was extremely loathed to get a judge on the telephone in \nmid-deposition. That could be one of the most unhappy experiences that\na lawyer would have.\n\n\n\n You got it.\n\n\n\n Depending on the time of day and the personality of the \njudge.\n\n\n\n Especially after your last opinion on my case, I \ndon't want to call you at all.\n\n\n\n As you see, I'm far more genial than I express in \nwriting. What I invited by that opinion, though, was that I would be\navailable -- and I believe in an issue that is as important to the \nreporters and to you, as their counsel, as this, it is appropriate \nfor you to stop a deposition on a question like that, instruct your \nwitness not to answer, and allow the Court to rule on it. I was \ninviting you to do that. Now, I understand what your reasons are for\nnot doing that, and I think you can do that.\n\nNow, if you're telling me that you have problems with certain \nanticipated questions but not others and if you're telling me that \nthe reporters would not exercise the privilege if they were kept \nroughly within the confines of their affidavits --\n\n\n\n I go beyond that. I'm willing to have them testify as to \nwhat they wrote in the article and basically forget the affidavit.\n\n\n\n That's fine.\n\n\n\n That means everything that's set forth in that article.\n\n\n\n Well, then I think we've clarified that point. Then I \nthink you should reschedule the depositions and try to do that.\n\n\n\n Well, if I can interject -- I mean, this is kind of like \nmy last hurrah.\n\n\n\n We could only hope not.\n\n\n\n It depends what happens next week. Because we don't have \nan order with respect to trial testimony -- and we don't, except for \nthe fact that, again, they're naked.\n\n\n\n I'll produce that order, if necessary.\n\n\n\n Well, let me share with you where I'm coming from, because\nI think what I've done here -- and obviously I can't do your job. \nBut what I'm proposing here, if you could just evaluate it.\n\n\n\n Depending how long this trial goes, you might be my guest\nin terms of doing my job.\n\n\n\n All I'm doing is adding something to what it is that you \nbasically have already written. And if I could just read this. You \nhave no idea how long it took us to write this. Because I think it\ndoes exactly what you just said.\n\nIt says, Wherein an affidavit is provided in lieu of testimony to \nsupport a newspaper article or newspaper articles, the reporter shall \nbe obligated to testify as to the facts set forth in the articles, \ni.e., what was seen and heard as related in the newspaper articles.\n\nBy doing so, the reporters would be verbalizing the contents of said \naffidavit -- I think, actually, they were your words when we had the \ntelephone conference -- by testifying as to what appears in the \nnewspaper article or articles, unless such affidavit is otherwise \naccepted by all parties as validating and authenticating the contents \nof the newspaper article or articles in issue. Meaning if they accept\nit, it becomes moot.\n\nHowever, no testimony shall relate to unpublished material or \ninformation or to the reporters' motivations, bias, mental impressions, \nor other information extrinsic to what the reporter saw and heard, \nand the reporter shall not be obligated to reveal any confidential \nsources.\n\nWhat I've tried to do here is to say, they'll testify as to \neverything that appeared in those articles. And how I then distinguish\nthis case from maybe my next case is, where an affidavit is \nprovided and the Court or the parties don't accept the affidavit.\n\nWhat I've done is, it says that there's no extraneous unpublished \nmaterial questioning. That's the clarity that I need. And then, quite \nfrankly, my mindset is, if the issue of the defendants is that we \nwere biased in our reporting because we either misquoted somebody or \nwhatever, well, this isn't a jury trial. You're trying this case. \nYou're either going to believe the reporters or you're going to \nbelieve Mr. Buckingham or Mr. Bonsell or whomever when they say, I \ndidn't say that. But my concern is that I have to have some degree \nof certainty by your order that they can't ask any questions as to \nunpublished materials.\n\n\n\n Are you suggesting that this language\nshould apply to both the depositions and the trial testimony? \n\n\n Meaning if you could adapt language similar to this for the \ntrial testimony and I agree, I have no problem in them being at a \ndeposition prior to trial with the same kind of language relative to \nthat. I will appear at a deposition prior to trial. I would like to\ndo that, because of my own health conditions, maybe on Friday in \nterms as to a deposition, if that works within anybody's schedule, \nand then maybe the latter part of next week. Because what I did \nwas, I put my surgery off until next Friday to get this done.\n\n\n\n Well, the problem Friday, I assume you fellows are getting\nout of here on Friday, but I'm not sure of that.\n\n\n\n Or we could do it Monday.\nI mean, whatever works. \n\n\n\n Well, we do have Friday morning\noff.\n\n\n\n Right.\n\n\n\n Although you may have something scheduled in terms of \npretrial planning. I'm not sure. Do you know?\n\n\n\n I have a plane flight.\n\n\n\n I was not going to be here.\n\n\n\n Do we need the whole team?\n\n\n\n I was the one going to take the deposition.\n\n\n\n Yeah, Ed was there yesterday.\n\n\n\n Alternatively?\n\n\n\n Well, we'll do what we have to do.\n\n\n\n Scheduling usually isn't my pay grade, but, you know, you \ncan figure that out. Go ahead.\n\n\n\n Judge, if I may, there are some things here that we can\nagree with, but there are others that we can't. And this is why, \nin our opinion, Judge. You know, if our clients are believed, the \nreporters did talk to them but took misrepresentative statements so \nthat they left things out to put them in a false light and in so \ndoing have created articles that, if they were admitted for the truth\nof the matter asserted, would be misrepresentative.\n\n\n\n Well, that's what I'm not going to get into. And I \nunderstand and I respect that argument. But I think I've got to \nline-draw here someplace. And I understood that argument before. And \nwhat I don't want to do here is turn this into an oral argument on\nthings that I've already decided. And I know you respect that.\n\nI think there is a privilege here, and I think the privilege \nsometimes gets drawn in what appears to be an ad hoc manner. But my\njob is to find where to put the line down in this case. To \ntraipse into the area of why they selectively used a quote as \nopposed to not using other things that were said I think is to get \non a very slippery slope. It really almost precipitates a bias line \nof questioning, and I'm not going to allow it. I am trying to \nnarrowly draw this.\n\nI understand that that's not what the defendants want in this case, \nbut I don't think it's called for. And, as a matter of fact, I \nthink if I did that and I ordered that and if -- I assume that the \nreporters would not testify and I would predict, if it went to the \nThird Circuit on that basis, I would be reversed. I don't think that\nthat's a fair area of inquiry to get into.\n\nThis looks artificial when you're dealing with a fact witness, but \nthese are fact witnesses who are also reporters, and I am straining \nto try to find a fair way to do this. I believe that to the \nextent -- and I've said this now several times -- that the reporters' \ntestimony is necessary in order to invoke the residual hearsay \nexception under Rule 807, that the defendants have to have an \nopportunity to examine the reporters on the same topics and subjects \nthat I would allow the plaintiffs to question them on during their \ncase-in-chief, nothing more and nothing less.\n\nSo I'm inclined to accept this language, you know, not word for \nword, only to the extent where it states, rather generically, \"wherein\nan affidavit is provided,\" I would take that sentence and simply say\nthat affidavits have been provided, rather than \"wherein.\" It's \nsomewhat artificial or a little strained as it relates to this case.\n\nThe rest of it I don't have any problem because I think it does \nnot do violence to my opinions. And this gets into a semantical \nexercise to some degree but one that is important, I understand, to \nthe reporters. We have got to cut the Gordian knot here. Either --\n\n\n\n We can live with this, and they would testify if we had \nlanguage similar to this.\n\n\n\n Well, my intention would be to enter an order that is a \nwrap-around order, if you will, that is, in effect, a \nre-reconsideration of the order on the depositions but also speaks to \nthe trial testimony in chief. And it will be abbreviated because of \nthe time constraints on me, but we'll issue it forthwith, and it \nwill indicate that you're going to -- they're going to sit for \ndepositions under those circumstances.\n\n\n\n Can I ask whether that would be reported?\n\n\n\n In what sense? When you say \"reported,\" what do you mean \nby that?\n\n\n\n \"Reported\" meaning in the books.\n\n\n\n Oh, published. \nWhen you say \"reported\" and you're talking about reporters, then I'm \nthinking, I have enough work in this case. No, we wouldn't publish \nit, but there are reporters who can access the CM/ECF system.\n\n\n\n No, the reason why I'm asking whether it would be \npublished, I don't know whether your original opinion --\n\n\n\n You're worried about the precedential value. No, it's not \nmy intention to publish it. I have no need. However, good or bad \nnews travels fast, and in the legal realm it will be cited by \nsomebody someplace.\n\n\n\n You have no idea.\n\n\n\n Oh, you'd be surprised.\n\n\n\n Your Honor, just in an effort to avoid needless procedure\nor inquiry, if I could just get a sense for what you have in mind\nand intend by the order. If they show up for deposition and begin \nto testify about an article about June 14th, --\n\n\n\n Hypothetically?\n\n\n\n Hypothetically. Would we be at liberty to say, did you \nhear anything else, did you see anything else? \n\n\n\n No, because\n-- and I know this is difficult, but it goes like this. And this is\nthe best I can put it, other than what I tried to do in my \nopinion. We have articles. We have a situation where the declarants, \nthe quoted individuals, have apparently denied -- either denied, I guess\n-- I'm not sure about this. This is my understanding, either denied \nthat they said what was reported in the articles or said that they \nwere statements taken out of context. And they can speak for \nthemselves. And that's one of the reasons that I'm line-drawing here. \nThey can say that, and I'll take that under consideration.\n\nBut from the reporters' perspective, were they at the meeting. The \nobvious answer is yes, but they haven't answered that under oath. Did\nthey hear the statement that is included in the article? Perhaps \nwhere were they standing in the room, did they utilize a tape \nrecorder for the purpose of taking down the statement or did they \nuse a tape recorder and did they take notes contemporaneously with \nthe statement. How long after the meeting did they write their \narticle, did they use the tape recorder, did they use notes as it \nrelated to that statement. Those are the types of inquiries that \nrelate specifically to the contents of the article.\n\nTo allay Mr. Benn's concerns, I think it is not fair game to talk \nabout all the other things that they heard and why they wrote the \narticle the way they did and why they excluded quotes. I sincerely \nbelieve that that gets into journalistic integrity, and that's \nproblematic, and it's not my intent to allow that, nor would I allow\nany questioning on anything personal to the reporters. I think I \nspelled that out in detail in the prior orders.\n\nWe are going to simply have them testify for the purpose of \nauthenticating the contents of that article, nothing more, nothing \nless, because I really believe that to do more than that is to \ncreate, I think, a precedent which would have reporters called -- Mr. \nBenn, I think, fears that even this would do that. I don't share \nthat fear. But to go any further than that would mean that a \nreporter's veracity could be questioned each and every time something \nlike this comes up. I strain mightily not to have to do that. \nThat's what I'm talking about. Now, I don't know if that clarifies \nit.\n\n\n\n It does, Your Honor, I think in large measure. And I \nwould ask this, with your leave, would it suffice to preserve my \nobjection that I object here in chambers on the record?\n\n\n\n That's fine. And I note that, and that's why I wanted to\ndo this on the record. And I understand that you object to that, \nand I understand the defendants have interposed not only this \nobjection but they have also argued against that. And to the extent \nthat this really clarifies and reasserts what I have in my prior \norders, I think you've preserved your position as it relates to that,\nand I understand that position.\n\n\n\n Thank you.\n\n\n\n Anything from the plaintiffs?\n\n\n\n We have no objection to the proposed modification, Your \nHonor.\n\n\n\n All right. So with that brief change to what is a little\nbit awkward in the first sentence, the \"wherein\" -- and I don't mean \nthat facetiously, but just as it relates to this case, because this \nalmost looks like it's a contracted or --\n\n\n\n I understand. I just wanted to make sure the word \n\"affidavit\" was in there.\n\n\n\n We will recite that. We will get a clarifying order out.\n\nNow, for the purpose of -- because this is a very public trial. \nWhat's your intention, what are your thoughts regarding how we should \naddress this? Because it's known that this is a festering controversy.\n\n\n\n That's an interesting question. I mean, if we're not called\ntoday, which we're not going to be, I don't know that it really is\nan issue. We just had dialogue in chambers, the judge is going to \nbe entering an order, and after we receive the order, we'll be able \nto make a decision in terms of where we proceed.\n\n\n\n Well, I don't know about that. I think you can assume, \nunless you doubt my word, I'm going to issue an order -- and I'm \nvery serious -- I'm going to issue an order and that order will be \nforthwith. I would prefer that --\n\n\n\n We can say that we've restricted the order in such a \nfashion that we believe the reporters will testify.\n\n\n\n If I might be so bold, that we are satisfied with the \nresolution.\n\n\n\n Thank you.\n\n\n\n We expect an order that is consistent with our \nunderstanding of an agreement that we reached -- I will let it to you\nto address that. And my intention would not be to address this \nagain in open court this afternoon. We would just move on. You have \nother witnesses, I assume, to present, and we can move through this. \nI'm simply saying I don't want wiggle room that we're waiting to \nsee, because I've had that experience now before.\n\n\n\n If you indicate to me as you have, that this is \nsatisfactory to you, I will indicate that we are satisfied with the \nprospective order that we understand the Court is going to enter and \nthat our clients will be testifying at deposition and at trial.\n\n\n\n Because I'll adopt this, but I don't want to do this \nagain.\n\n\n\n I understand.\n\n\n\n And you don't want to do it again, I know, I recognize.\n\n\n\n Your Honor, just one other clarification question. With \nregard to asking what they saw and heard with regard to all of the \nstatements and the articles, I would assume that's statements made \nafter the gavel banged and the meeting was over. Some of those \nquotes are afterwards.\n\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n\n But can questions be asked as far as the context of \nthose statements? THE COURT: Ask the question that you want to ask.\n\n\n\n When so and so said this thing, you know, it was in \nresponse to what, what question or what else was being talked about \nwhen this statement was made.\n\n\n\n No. That's too amorphous a question. The issue here, I'll \nrestate, is the veracity of the articles themselves, did the reporter \nhear the statement as reported. If it was taken out of context, \nwe're not going to delve into that in this examination. The \nindividual who believes -- who was quoted and believes the statement \nwas taken out of context or flatly that he didn't or she didn't say\nit and it's inaccurate will have the opportunity to say that during \nthe defendants case-in-chief or at any other time during the trial.\n\nWe're not going to side door, you know, a bias argument by going \ninto context. Context is a dangerous thing as it relates to what \nwe're doing here. So, no, it's -- we presume that the statement was \nlikely given to the reporter upon a question being asked by the \nreporter, although it could have been volunteered. That's of no \nmoment.\n\nThe issue is, did the reporter hear the statement, was it reported \nadequately, not was it reported out of context, but did those words, \nas quoted, come out of that individual's mouth. Now, I can't be any \nclearer than that. All right?\n\n\n\n Your Honor, one thing I might ask, since it is perhaps \nlikely that issues are going to arise during the deposition, I'm \nwondering if we could now attempt to schedule the deposition at a \ntime when everybody, including Your Honor, might be available to \nintercede.\n\n\n\n Well, what's your next day that would be available if not\nFriday?\n\n\n\n Monday.\n\n\n\n Well, Monday I'll be in chambers in Williamsport all day.\n\n\n\n I cannot do it Monday because I couldn't get here on \nSunday. My wife is going out of town, and I have to watch all the \nkids. I could do it Tuesday, I could do it Wednesday.\n\n\n\n Tuesday and Wednesday is a Jewish holiday for me. I can't \ndo it.\n\n\n\n How about tomorrow?\n\n\n\n I'm leaving tomorrow.\n\n\n\n Well, look, if it's any weekday other than next Friday \nwhen I will not be available -- I'll be traveling next Friday -- I'll \nbe available. And, you know, we'll work through that issue. And if \nyou're otherwise taking the deposition and we're at trial, I'll tell \nyou that we'll construct some mechanism -- and we kind of talked about\nthis a little bit yesterday -- where you hold the thought if counsel \ninstructs the reporters not to answer because it's a problematic \nquestion, and we can circle back and we'll deal with that later.\n\nI understand those things could come up in the course of the \ndeposition, and I'll rule on those as I can if I'm not instantly \navailable. So whether I'm sitting at trial or not -- and likely it \nwill be a day when I'm sitting in trial -- we'll deal with it.\n\n\n\n How about later today?\n\n\n\n You work that out. Let's get back on the record here, \nbecause we've got people waiting and I want to get going. You'll \nhave to work that out. But I will tell you in concluding that if \nit is at night, if you do it at night, I will give you my home \nnumber, and you can contact me so we get this finished. If we have \nto do that, we'll do it so we get it finished. I will not attend \nthe deposition, though. I stopped doing that when I got this job. \nAnything else? \n\n\n\n No. Thank you, Your Honor.\n\n\n\n Thank you, Your Honor.\n\n\n\n (The discussion in chambers was concluded.)\n\n\n\n We return in session, and I want to apologize to the \nassembled spectators and, of course, to the media. We handled a \nmatter in chambers that you'll become aware of in an effort to \nresolve a problem, and I think we did. These things arise during \ntrials from time to time. That is the first time that we've had \nthat type of matter in this trial. We may have others as the trial \nunfolds. But it was a necessary exercise. And we try to keep them \nat a minimum and we will keep them at a minimum during the trial.\n\nBut with that, we will go back to the plaintiffs. You may call your\nnext witness.\n\n\n\n Your Honor, the plaintiffs would call Julie\nSmith.\n\n\n JULIE SMITH, called as a witness, having been duly sworn or affirmed, testified as follows:\n\n\n DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. HARVEY:\n\n\n\n Please tell us your name.\n\n\n Julie Ann Smith.\n\n\n Where do you live, Ms. Smith?\n\n\n Honey Run Drive, York, Pa.\n\n\n And is that within the area covered by the Dover Area School District?\n\n\n Yes, it is.\n\n\n And how long have you lived there?\n\n\n Fourteen years.\n\n\n Do you have any children?\n\n\n Yes, I have two children.\n\n\n How old are they?\n\n\n My daughter Katherine is 16, and my son Michael is 19.\n\n\n Your daughter Katherine, what school does she attend?\n\n\n Dover High School.\n\n\n What grade is she in?\n\n\n She's in eleventh grade.\n\n\n Please tell us what you do for a living.\n\n\n I'm a medical technologist.\n\n\n And please summarize for us your educational background.\n\n\n I graduated high school in 1979, and I graduated at York College with a degree in medical technology in 1984.\n\n\n Now, did there come a time when you learned that the Dover Area School District Board of Directors was considering approval of a biology textbook?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n And tell us, when did you learn that?\n\n\n I learned that in June of '04.\n\n\n And what was the basis for your knowledge?\n\n\n I read it in the paper.\n\n\n Do you remember what you read?\n\n\n Yeah, I read it in the York Daily Record, and, yes, I do remember.\n\n\n Please tell us what you remember learning at that time.\n\n\n That the school district was very concerned about approving a biology text that did not include creationism.\n\n\n And do you remember anything else that you learned at that time?\n\n\n Not right off the top of my head.\n\n\n Okay. Did there come a time when you learned that the school district board of directors had approved a biology text?\n\n\n Yes, they did in August.\n\n\n And what was the basis for you learning that at that time?\n\n\n I read about it in the paper.\n\n\n And did there come a time when you learned that the school district board of directors was considering a supplemental textbook?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n And what was the basis for your knowledge of that?\n\n\n I learned that from the paper, also.\n\n\n And what did you learn?\n\n\n That they were going to have Of Pandas and People in the classroom as a supplemental text to the biology book.\n\n\n And did you learn about where that book was going to come from?\n\n\n It was donated.\n\n\n Now, did there come a time when you learned that the board had made a change to the biology curriculum?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n And approximately when was that?\n\n\n In October, I believe it was, in '04. It was in the newspaper that they were going to be teaching their intelligent design from Of Pandas and People.\n\n\n And did you attend that board meeting?\n\n\n No.\n\n\n And did you learn anything else from reading the newspapers at that time?\n\n\n Well, that they were going to read the statement in the classroom, yes.\n\n\n Okay. Now, I'd like to ask you to take a look in the notebook at what's been marked as P127.\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n Can you tell us what it is?\n\n\n It's the newsletter that came to the house in the mail that told -- that had the statement included that they were going to be teaching in the biology class.\n\n\n Now, do you know approximately when you received this?\n\n\n Well, it says it was February, so I'm assuming it was February.\n\n\n Did there come a time when -- let me withdraw that. Do you believe that the board's actions in this case, the change to the biology curriculum and its other actions, have caused you harm?\n\n\n Yes, I do.\n\n\n And can you tell us what harm you believe that it has caused you?\n\n\n Late in '04 my daughter came home from school, and I was discussing kind of what was going on in the district with her. And she looked at me and she said, Well, Mom, evolution is a lie, what kind of Christian are you, anyway, which I found to be very upsetting.\n\n\n Did you ask her why she said that?\n\n\n Yeah, I asked her why she said that, and she said in school what they had been talking about or amongst her friends and what's going on. She seemed to be under the impression that as a Christian, she could not believe that evolution was a science that, you know, was true.\n\n\n And how did that harm you?\n\n\n Well, it goes against my beliefs. I have no problems with my faith and evolution. They're not mutually exclusive.\n\n\n No further questions of this witness. \n\n\n\n All \nright. Cross-examine, Mr. Thompson. \n\n\n\n Thank you, Your \nHonor. \n\n\n\n CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. THOMPSON:\n\n\n\n Mrs. Smith, my name is Richard Thompson. I represent the defendants in this case. And do you recall in April where your deposition was taken by another member of the Thomas More Law Center, Patrick Gillen? Do you remember being involved in that deposition?\n\n\n Yes, I do.\n\n\n Were you present in court for all the testimony that has been given in this trial?\n\n\n No.\n\n\n When did you get to court?\n\n\n Tuesday morning.\n\n\n Now, whose testimony have you heard so far?\n\n\n I heard some of Ken Miller's. I heard Barrie Callahan, Bryan Rehm. I heard the gentleman this morning.\n\n\n Okay. You were asked to become a plaintiff in this case by the ACLU, were you not?\n\n\n No.\n\n\n Didn't someone from the ACLU call you?\n\n\n Yes, they called me. But I was actually asked by my friend at work, who said to me, would you be interested in having the ACLU contact you, and I said yes.\n\n\n And so the ACLU contacted you, and you agreed to become a plaintiff in this case?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n Now, will you agree with me that the policy which is the subject matter of this lawsuit, the curriculum change in the biology for ninth grade, took place on October 18th, 2004?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n That's when the board passed the resolution that changed the biology curriculum?\n\n\n I believe so, yes.\n\n\n And that policy was implemented for the first time in January of 2005. Is that correct?\n\n\n That's correct.\n\n\n In January, 2005, where was your son?\n\n\n My son was in college.\n\n\n So he had already graduated from Dover High School?\n\n\n Yes, that's correct.\n\n\n And in January, 2005, where was your daughter?\n\n\n She was in school.\n\n\n What grade?\n\n\n She was in grade ten.\n\n\n So you will agree with me that this biology curriculum really only affected, as far as the statement was read, ninth-grade biology students?\n\n\n No, that's not true.\n\n\n So the statement was read to other classes?\n\n\n No, but it would affect all the students at the school.\n\n\n Well, listen to my question. This policy provided that the statement was read to ninth-grade biology students. Do you agree with that?\n\n\n I agree it was read to ninth-grade biology students.\n\n\n Okay. And your daughter had already graduated from the ninth grade?\n\n\n That's correct.\n\n\n So at the time that this policy was implemented, both of your children were out of the ninth grade?\n\n\n That's correct.\n\n\n Neither one of them would be subject to the statement being read to them. Is that correct?\n\n\n That's correct.\n\n\n Okay. Now, you indicated to your lawyer that you got involved because of newspaper articles that you read?\n\n\n That's correct.\n\n\n Okay. Now, is it an accurate statement that in the year 2004, prior to you becoming a plaintiff in this case, you had never attended a single board meeting --\n\n\n That's not correct.\n\n\n -- in 2004?\n\n\n In 2004, that's correct.\n\n\n Okay. Just please answer my question and then your attorney can ask you to explain if he wants to. So in 2004, prior to this -- prior to you becoming a plaintiff, you never attended a board meeting in that year?\n\n\n In that year.\n\n\n Okay.\n\n\n Before that, yes.\n\n\n In 2003, you never attended a board meeting. Is that correct?\n\n\n No, I had attended board meetings previously.\n\n\n I didn't ask you that question. I asked you, in 2003, did you attend a board meeting?\n\n\n I'm going to say I don't remember which board meetings I attended.\n\n\n In --\n\n\n\n Objection. Arguing with the witness and beyond the\nscope --\n\n\n\n I'm asking questions.\n\n\n\n Excuse me, and beyond the scope\nof direct.\n\n\n\n Wait, wait. One at a time. Let him finish, Mr. Thompson. \nFinish the objection.\n\n\n\n Objection, arguing with the witness and beyond the scope \nof direct.\n\n\n\n I don't find it beyond the scope of direct. It's \nappropriate cross-examination. It's overruled on that basis. We're \ngetting argumentative only because I think the witness and counsel are\ntalking over each other. Each of you let the other finish before \nyou start talking.\n\n\n\n I apologize, Your Honor.\n\n\n\n There's a great temptation in cross-examination to talk \nover. That happens. So let's get a question on the floor. Why don't \nyou restate your question, Mr. Thompson.\n\n\n\n Okay.\n\n\n\n BY MR. THOMPSON\n\n\n\n Is it true that you did not attend a board meeting in the year 2003?\n\n\n I'm not going to say that's not true. I don't remember which board meetings I attended. I did attend some before '04.\n\n\n Is it true that you didn't attend a board meeting in 2002?\n\n\n I told you I don't remember which year I -- I attended board meetings during the construction project, so when that was, that's when I was there.\n\n\n And that was the year 2000, was it not?\n\n\n I don't remember.\n\n\n Mrs. Smith, I'm going to hand you --\n\n\n Your Honor, may I \napproach the witness? \n\n\n\n You may.\n\n\n\n BY MR. THOMPSON\n\n\n Mrs. Smith, I'm going to hand you what purports to be your deposition that was taken by Patrick Gillen. I would like you to direct your attention to Page 13, and I would like you to read out loud the question that you are asked starting with Line 18 and all the way down through that page and then going on to the next page, Page 14, and reading from Line 1 through Line 4. And please read it out loud.\n\n\n You want me to read out loud starting on 18?\n\n\n Line that starts with Q, which represents the question that was asked by Mr. Gillen, and A represents your answer. Would you please read it out loud.\n\n\n \"Let me just make sure I get you there and go on. You attended board meetings. Give me a sense of which ones you attended. They were not the board meetings\" --\n\n\n Now give me your answer. So that the record will reflect, that was the question and now your answer, starting with Line 21.\n\n\n You want me to read it?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n \"They were not the board meetings, and we were not discussing intelligent design. When I went to some board meetings, it was several years ago. We were discussing the building project, and it has nothing to do with the intelligent design.\"\n\n\n And then go on to the next page, and the question that Mr. Gillen asked you starting on Line 1?\n\n\n \"That is all I am trying to get a sense for. I am not familiar with the dates for the building project. Was that '03 or '02?\"\n\n\n \"Was that 2003 or 2002,\" is that right, the question?\n\n\n That's correct.\n\n\n Okay. And what was your answer?\n\n\n \"I would say more like 2000.\"\n\n\n So was that an accurate reflection of your memory at the time that the deposition was taken?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n Okay. Does that seem right that the board meetings that you attended prior to being a plaintiff in a lawsuit was in the year 2000?\n\n\n If that's what I said, that's what I recalled at the time, yes.\n\n\n So based upon the response that you gave to your attorney, is it a fair statement that you began as a plaintiff in this case in December, 2004, without ever having personally witnessed the actions of the Dover School Board as they debated and enacted the policy on which this lawsuit is based? MR. HARVEY: Objection. It's compound. \n\n\n BY MR. THOMPSON\n\n\n Can you answer that question? \n\n\n\n Now, wait. She's not \ngoing to answer it until I rule on the objection. Elaborate on your \nobjection.\n\n\n\n I think there are several predicates to that question. He\nasked whether you were present at any of the board meetings while \nthey debated and then enacted this resolution, and I'm not aware of \nany testimony that they debated the resolution.\n\n\n\n Well, I think it's a fair characterization that there was \ndiscussion about the\npolicy. I'll overrule the objection. You can answer\nthe question. Do you recall the question?\n\n\n\n No.\n\n\n\n Let's have the question read back, please.\n\n\n\n (Previous question read back.)\n\n\n\n That's correct.\n\n\n\n BY MR. THOMPSON\n\n\n In fact, all of the information upon which you -- strike that. In fact, the information that you were getting about what the school board was doing in 2004 came from newspapers. Is that correct?\n\n\n That's correct.\n\n\n And I believe in your deposition you indicated that you looked at the morning newspapers almost on a daily basis?\n\n\n That's correct.\n\n\n And when you were looking at the morning newspapers, that you got very upset about what you read regarding the Dover School Board and the policies that they were debating. Is that correct?\n\n\n That's correct.\n\n\n What were the two -- what were the newspapers that you were looking at during this time?\n\n\n I read the Daily Record every morning.\n\n\n What about the York Dispatch?\n\n\n Not regularly, no.\n\n\n Okay. So that it would be a fair statement that even though what you were reading in the newspapers got you upset, that you never personally attended one of the board meetings in that year?\n\n\n That's correct. There were personal issues in my life at that time where I was not able to do that.\n\n\n And it is true that you never spoke to any of the members of the Dover School Board about the issues that concerned you. Is that correct?\n\n\n That's correct.\n\n\n You never called them. Is that correct?\n\n\n That's correct.\n\n\n You never e-mailed them. Is that correct?\n\n\n That's correct.\n\n\n Did you write letters to the editor about what the school board was doing?\n\n\n No.\n\n\n So that the first time that the school board would know that you were upset with their actions is when they learned of you being a plaintiff in this lawsuit. Is that correct?\n\n\n That's correct.\n\n\n Okay. Now, did you ever speak to any of the teachers at Dover High School before you became a plaintiff in this case?\n\n\n No.\n\n\n Did you ever speak to any of the reporters who had written the stories about what the Dover School Board was doing during this time?\n\n\n No.\n\n\n Did you ever receive any minutes or notes about what the Dover School Board was doing during this time?\n\n\n No.\n\n\n You never sent anyone e-mails or any other communication regarding this issue. Is that a fair statement?\n\n\n That's a fair statement.\n\n\n In fact, one of the issues in this case is this book Of Pandas and People. Is that correct?\n\n\n That's correct.\n\n\n You never looked at the book Of Pandas and People before you became a plaintiff in this lawsuit, did you?\n\n\n I didn't feel that I could look at it. It was in -- I guess it was in the library at the school, but I was not aware if we could go in the school library and take out books or not.\n\n\n Well, did you make any effort to go and look at it?\n\n\n I really wasn't interested.\n\n\n Now, your attorney referred to a newsletter that you received in February. Do you have a copy of that newsletter in front of you?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n And I believe you indicated that you thought the newsletter was sent in February, 2002?\n\n\n No.\n\n\n Excuse me, 2005. Excuse me.\n\n\n Correct.\n\n\n Okay. Could we have that newsletter? I would like you to read from that newsletter on the top left-hand side in that box. Read it out loud, please.\n\n\n \"This newsletter has been produced to help explain the changes in the biology curriculum. Unfortunately, a great deal of misinformation has been spread regarding this policy. We hope this publication will help those interested better understand the substance of the policy while eliminating any misconceptions some may have about the curriculum change. We sincerely appreciate your understanding on this matter.\"\n\n\n Thank you. It was through this policy that you first learned about the statement that was going to be read. Is that correct?\n\n\n No, I believe -- no, I heard about it before.\n\n\n But did you actually see the statement before?\n\n\n I don't think so.\n\n\n So this was the first time that you saw the statement that was going to be read to the students in the ninth-grade biology class. Is that correct?\n\n\n I believe so.\n\n\n Okay.\n\n\n As far as I can tell.\n\n\n And so this newsletter was actually providing information to the residents of Dover as to what the actual newsletter was -- excuse me, what the actual statement was going to say. Is that correct?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n Okay. So you had no problem with the fact that the newsletter was being produced, even though you had a problem with the policy. Is that correct?\n\n\n No.\n\n\n Now, there's a bit of street wisdom, and I don't know whether you agree with this or not, and that street wisdom is, don't believe everything you read in the newspapers. Have you ever heard that?\n\n\n Yeah, I've heard that before.\n\n\n Okay. And so if you don't believe everything in the newspapers, don't you think before you became a plaintiff in a lawsuit that you should have taken some personal action to verify whether things that were produced in a newspaper were really accurate?\n\n\n I did talk to people in the district, other people in the district.\n\n\n Who did you talk to?\n\n\n People that I work with, other people in the district.\n\n\n But you never even saw the policy until that newsletter came out. Is that correct?\n\n\n I got my information from the newspaper, yes.\n\n\n And the newspaper. Now, have you ever had involvement with newspapers before? Have you been interviewed? Have you been interviewed by news reporters before?\n\n\n No.\n\n\n But would it be a fair statement to say in the normal experience that newspaper reporters might spend five, ten, or fifteen minutes interviewing a person and then only put one line of that interview in an article?\n\n\n Objection. No foundation that she has any experience as \nreferred to in the question.\n\n\n\n Do you want to respond to that Mr. Thompson?\n\n\n\n Well, I think it's common experience and it's knowledge,\nit's common sense.\n\n\n\n Now I think we're going afield. I'll sustain the \nobjection. We're now clearly outside the scope of direct, the \nobjection is sustained. \n\n\n\n BY MR. THOMPSON\n\n\n Well, you said that you were upset by the policy because it conflicts with your religion?\n\n\n I said I was upset about it because I didn't find a problem with it with my religion. It does not -- I'm getting confused. I have a problem with it because my daughter came home from school and she says to me, What kind of Christian are you, anyway? So that's why I have a problem with it.\n\n\n If you recall your deposition -- and I certainly will give you an opportunity to look at it if you don't recall it -- the incident that you're referring to, also you received information that your daughter was a member of a Bible club. Right?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n And up to that point, you were not even aware she was a member of a Bible club. Isn't that correct?\n\n\n That's correct.\n\n\n And that it was -- she had a lot of friends who went to Protestant fundamental churches. Is that correct?\n\n\n Yes, she does.\n\n\n And she received that information from her friends, her Protestant friends in school or in the Bible club. Isn't that correct?\n\n\n I would assume that's where she got her information, from the Bible club at school. Plus they talked about it.\n\n\n And the fact that someone believes in intelligent design does not make that inconsistent with the Catholic faith, does it?\n\n\n I spoke to my deacon about this situation, and all I know is what he told me.\n\n\n Is he a theologian?\n\n\n He's a deacon at St. Rose Catholic Church.\n\n\n Do you know if he has any particular expertise in Catholic theology?\n\n\n Objection again. Beyond the scope of direct, Your Honor.\n\n\n\n She brought the issue up of religion, Your Honor, and \nI'm exploring that.\n\n\n\n Well, I think it is beyond the scope, again, the \ncolorable scope of direct, and I'll sustain the objection. This is \nnot a deposition. This is testimony in the case-in-chief, and we're \nafield.\n\n\n\n BY MR. THOMPSON\n\n\n Now, the book Of Pandas and People, you don't mind that book being in the library, do you?\n\n\n No, I don't have a problem with it being in the library.\n\n\n You heard yesterday, if you attended the deposition of -- excuse me, the testimony of Mr. Rehm's, that the science teachers, in a compromised move, had agreed to put Of Pandas and People in the science class. Did you hear that? \n\n\n \nObjection, Your Honor. Mischaracterizes the testimony.\n\n\n\n In what sense?\n\n\n\n I believe Mr. Rehm testified\nthat the teachers did not agree to put the materials in the science \nclass. \n\n\n\n Your Honor, my understanding in --\n\n\n\n And --\n\n\n\n Now, wait, Mr. Harvey. Let Mr. Thompson speak. One at a \ntime.\n\n\n\n Your Honor, my memory, if it serves me correct, Mr. \nRehm testified that they had reached a compromise with some of the \nboard members that they were going to allow the book Of Pandas and \nPeople in the science classroom.\n\n\n\n My recollection is that he may not have used the word \n\"compromise,\" he may have used the word \"concession.\" I'm not sure \nthat there's a distinction as it applies here. I'll overrule the \nobjection. Did you hear Mr. Rehm's testimony yesterday?\n\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n\n Well, then go ahead.\n\n\n\n BY MR. THOMPSON\n\n\n Whether it's \"concession\" or \"compromise,\" did you hear that the teachers had agreed to put Of Pandas and People in the science classroom?\n\n\n I don't remember exactly what he said yesterday.\n\n\n\n\n No further questions, Your Honor.\n\n\n\n All right. \nThank you,\nMr. Thompson. Any redirect? \n\n\n\n\n No, Your Honor.\n\n\n\n \nThen, ma'am, you may step down.\n\nThat will complete your testimony. And I don't think we have any \nexhibits to enter, do we? \n\n\n\n That's correct, Your Honor.\nP127 is already in evidence.\n\n\n\n You may call your next \nwitness.\n\n\n\n Your Honor, the plaintiffs call\nto the stand Plaintiff Christy Rehm. \n\n\n CHRISTY REHM, called as a witness, having been duly sworn or affirmed, testified as follows: \n\n\n\n Your Honor, again, may I make sure that she has the binder \nof exhibits? \n\n\n\n You certainly may. \n\n\n\n DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. HARVEY\n\n\n Please tell us your name.\n\n\n Christy Rehm.\n\n\n Are you married, Mrs. Rehm?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n Tell us the name of your husband.\n\n\n Bryan Rehm.\n\n\n Please clarify for us one important question, and that is, exactly how old are your children?\n\n\n My children?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n I have a 14-year-old daughter, Alix, an eight-year-old daughter Paige, a seven-year-old son Ian, and a 15-month-old son Lucas.\n\n\n And where does your family live? I mean your immediate family, you and your husband and your children.\n\n\n Rock Creek Drive, Dover, Pennsylvania.\n\n\n And how long have you lived there?\n\n\n Approximately five years.\n\n\n And had you lived in Dover previously to that in your life?\n\n\n Yes. I grew up in Dover, I attended Dover High School, graduated from Dover High School. My family, my extended family, lives in the Dover area, including my grandparents, my parents, and other relatives. My parents currently still live in the Dover area.\n\n\n And please tell us where your children are right now in school, the grades, please.\n\n\n Grade level, okay, yes. The oldest is in ninth grade, the next one is in the third grade. I have a first-grader, and then obviously the baby is not in school yet.\n\n\n And the oldest three children, do they attend the public schools in Dover?\n\n\n Yes. Two of them, my oldest is at the high school, the Dover High School, and then I have -- the next one is at the Weiglestown Elementary School. And my son is hearing-impaired, so he is charged with the education of Dover School District, meaning that they have to provide his education, but he actually attends classes at a hearing-impaired classroom.\n\n\n And your daughter that's in the ninth grade, is that at the Dover High School?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n And is she taking biology now?\n\n\n Yes, she is.\n\n\n Please summarize for us your educational background.\n\n\n As I said, I graduated from Dover High School. I attended Lock Haven University and Millersville University. I received a BA from Millersville University in English, and I also have a degree in journalism, as well. I later got a teaching certification and attended Penn State University where I received my master's degree.\n\n\n Do you work outside the home?\n\n\n Yes, I do.\n\n\n What do you do?\n\n\n I'm a teacher, an English teacher.\n\n\n Where do you teach?\n\n\n In a public school system outside of York County.\n\n\n And what grade do you teach?\n\n\n High-school level, so tenth through twelfth grade generally.\n\n\n Did there come a time when you learned that the Dover Area School District Board of Directors was considering a change to -- was considering approval of a biology textbook?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n Do you remember when that was?\n\n\n It was sometime in 2004. It was prior to the June meetings because my husband was a teacher at the school, so I often heard things that he would come home and tell me. So I knew that there was some discussion over the biology book, so sometime before that. I can't tell you exactly when.\n\n\n Did you attend a meeting of the Dover Area School District Board of Directors on June the 7th of 2004?\n\n\n Yes, I did.\n\n\n And why did you attend that meeting?\n\n\n Well, because, like I said, my husband had been a teacher at the school, and he had sort of been directed by the high school principal to attend the meeting in support of the different things that were happening. There were other textbooks that were being adopted and controversies over them, and, you know, it was sort of a rallying thing, I suppose. And I went along because I live in the district, I pay taxes in the district, my children attend school in the district. I'm an educator, and I was curious about what was happening.\n\n\n And can you recall anything that happened at that meeting on June the 7th?\n\n\n I recall a lot of things that were happening at that meeting.\n\n\n Please tell us what you can remember about that meeting.\n\n\n Okay. Some of the -- I attended a lot of meetings, so facts blur together. What I do recall, I -- as my husband said yesterday, I was pregnant at the time, so I have some reason to remember certain things. But I recall Barrie Callahan speaking about the textbook. It was the first time that I had really ever been around Barrie Callahan, so she strikes me -that memory strikes me because my mother had known her previously. And she was speaking about the textbook, just questioning them. I don't remember her exact words. But I do know that she was upset with them about this textbook, the textbook process, the students not having a textbook. Obviously it was very distressing for her that the students in the biology class did not have a textbook.\n\n\n Do you remember if any board member spoke back to her in response to her questions?\n\n\n Yes. Bill Buckingham said to her -- and I know Bill Buckingham because at the time he lived down the street from my grandparents and for many years lived there. And he responded to her basically saying that there's, you know, a problem with the textbook, it needs to be balanced, comments about laced with Darwinism, it needed to be balanced with creationism. Comments of that nature is what he had said to her.\n\n\n Do you remember --\n\n\n I'm sorry.\n\n\n I'm sorry.\n\n\n And I distinctly recall Barrie Callahan sort of throwing her hands up in the air and saying, Oh, so this is about evolution. That was very distinct in my mind, just her mannerisms as she said that.\n\n\n Do you recall a young man by the name of Max Pell speaking at that meeting?\n\n\n Unfortunately I was in the restroom at the time that Max Pell was speaking because -- my husband told you I was eight months pregnant. I was actually nine months pregnant and due any day, so I spent quite a deal of time in the restroom. But I had excused myself to go to the restroom just after Barrie did this whole thing. In fact, I may have been walking out of the room at the time and in close proximity to her. And so at the time when Max was speaking -- I believe that there were people who spoke in between she and Max Pell. But at the time when he stood to speak, I was in the restroom and sort of coming back from the restroom, so I don't really recall exactly what his comments were. I know him because he was my husband's student, though.\n\n\n Do you recall any other board members saying anything during the course of any discussion about the biology textbook?\n\n\n Well, like I said, I was reentering the room from the bathroom, so I was sort of in the doorway. And I obviously didn't know what Max had said to the board but that he had spoken to the board. So the comments that were coming back were, I assume, directed at him. But there were comments from Bill Buckingham about brainwashing, and I remember hearing that, the whole thing about brainwashing, because it dealt with going to college and getting this education and students who go to college become brainwashed. And I was very upset by that because I attended college and I don't feel as if I were brainwashed. And also I recall Alan Bonsell making a comment about, you know, there are only two theories, there's this theory evolution and there's this theory creation, and if you're teaching only those two theories, then there's not a problem.\n\n\n Do you recall anything else Mr. Bonsell said?\n\n\n At this time, no.\n\n\n Do you remember anything else that was said by any members of the public at that meeting?\n\n\n At that meeting. Currently, I don't.\n\n\n I'd like you to take a look at what's been marked as Exhibit P46. It's in the notebook in front of you. Just take a moment to look at it.\n\n\n Okay.\n\n\n Do you have that in front of you?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n Have you ever seen it before?\n\n\n This article, yes.\n\n\n Did you see it at or around the date that it was published?\n\n\n Yes, I did.\n\n\n What's the date on it?\n\n\n The date is June 9th, 2004.\n\n\n Who is the author?\n\n\n The author is Joseph Maldonado.\n\n\n And can you tell us what publication its from?\n\n\n Yes. It is from the York Daily Record.\n\n\n Now, did you just have an opportunity to read it just a moment ago?\n\n\n Just now I skimmed it, yes.\n\n\n Take another moment to look at it if you need to, but I would like to know whether it refreshes your recollection about anything else that happened at that meeting.\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n Okay. Tell us what else -- after looking at that article, do you remember anything else that happened at the meeting?\n\n\n Yes, I do recall Bill Buckingham making comments about, you know, the apes and monkeys -coming from apes and monkeys. And I also --\n\n\n\n Your Honor, again, objection. It appears she's going to be \nreading from the article with her testimony.\n\n\n\n I'm sorry.\n\n\n\n It's a little hard to do this, but we'll sustain the \nobjection. Mr. Muise's objection is well-founded. Let me explain how \nwe can do this, how we must do this.\n\nWhen your counsel asks you the question, you may review the article, \ntake a look at it, see if it refreshes your recollection. It's \nimportant that having refreshed your recollection, if it jogs something\nor re-creates a memory, that you testify in answer to Mr. Harvey's \nquestion. Do not look back and read from the article as you're \ntestifying, please. All right?\n\n\n\n Yes. Sorry.\n\n\n\n BY MR. HARVEY\n\n\n Now, do you remember anything else that happened at that meeting?\n\n\n Yes. I remember comments about our country being founded on Christianity and not needing to teach the faiths of other people. And I remember talking to my husband about that in the car ride home, as well, because we're both teachers and I was -- when I hear things like that, I immediately think of my students, and I was thinking about the diverse group of students that I have in my classroom, who all have different religious viewpoints, and how difficult that would be to tell one student that, you know, we can't express your belief, but we can express that person's belief in the classroom. And I just find those things to be very upsetting when I hear things like that being said.\n\n\n Now, do you remember if you attended another meeting of the Dover Area School District Board of Directors approximately a week later on June the 14th?\n\n\n Yes, I did.\n\n\n And why did you attend that meeting?\n\n\n Well, because there wasn't really a clear resolution to what had occurred the previous meeting. In addition, I was very angry when I left the June 7th meeting just because of the demeanor of the school board and the things that were being said. And, honestly, I thought that maybe it would set me into labor because of, you know, being angry, and at that point in time I was past my due date, in addition to caring about my children's education and everything I said previously.\n\n\n Now, tell us what you can recall of the June 14th, board meeting.\n\n\n Again, there were many, many things that happened at that school board meeting, and I can tell you that I was very much interested in what was being said. And so I pretty well made sure, at the beginning of that meeting, which went on for quite a long time, that I wouldn't miss anything, so I took care of my bathroom needs beforehand. And I recall the meeting starting with Bill Buckingham sort of -- I'm sorry, Trudy Peterman spoke about her -- actually, hold on. Give me one second to think about this. Yes, Trudy Peterman spoke. She was the high school principal at the time. And I know that she spoke because the thing that she said seemed very similar to her graduation speech that she had said just previously. My sister had graduated that year, and I attended the commencement ceremony. And she had talked about Visigoths and things like that that she had spoken about in her commencement speech. And essentially she was speaking up for the teachers and the biology textbook. And after she had spoken, Bertha Spahr also spoke, as well. She's the department chairperson, and, actually, I had her as a science teacher. And she presented information to the board, documents, that she and I believe other members of the science department had researched on, I guess cases that had been set down before on creationism in the public school system or something of that nature, just to show them that, you know, if they were still considering this idea, that they might, I don't know, be met with some litigation or something. After she spoke, Bill Buckingham had made a comment to her about her -- where did she get her law degree from. Can you give me one second? I'm wondering if I'm getting my meetings mixed up.\n\n\n Objection, Your Honor. This is running into a narrative.\n\n\n\n Well, I think it's still responsive to the question. Do \nyou want to put a question on the floor?\n\n\n\n She was just thinking.\n\n\n\n BY MR. HARVEY\n\n\n Did you need to think and change your testimony in any way?\n\n\n I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't getting my meetings mixed up.\n\n\n\n You can finish your answer. Do you want to \nfinish the answer, or is that your answer? \n\n\n Yes, that's \nmy answer. I'm sorry, I recall something else, as well. I recall \nCharlotte Buckingham, who is Bill Buckingham's wife, speaking at that \nmeeting, as well.\n\nEssentially there were a lot of people in the community who were \nstanding and speaking at this meeting because they wanted to warn the\nschool board that they were not in favor of any legal action coming\nagainst the community, against the school board. They were afraid for\ntheir tax dollars.\n\nAnd Charlotte Buckingham I recall really being the only person who \ngot up to stand in defense of the school board, and she was Mr. \nBuckingham's wife, or is Mr. Buckingham's wife. And she quoted \nScripture, Old Testament, actually, all Old Testament Scripture about \nwhy the school board is right, basically. And she also talked about \nschool prayer and the need for school prayer in that speech that she\nhad prepared.\n\nIn addition, Reverend Warren Eshbach stood\nup and spoke at that meeting, as well, sort of urging the school \nboard not to proceed with this. And many other members of the \ncommunity spoke, as well.\n\n\n\n BY MR. HARVEY\n\n\n Did your husband speak?\n\n\n I recall my husband speaking. In fact, he hadn't prepared to speak, but he was very upset, as many people in the audience were, and he stood up to speak. I don't remember his exact comments, but, again, it was a warning to the school board and -actually, not necessarily a warning, but just sort of reiterating what science teachers do in their science classes and how there is really no conflict here with the textbook.\n\n\n \nObjection, Your Honor. It's a\nnarrative. The question was, did your husband speak.\n\n\n\n Yes,\nhe spoke.\n\n\n\n My next question was going to\nbe simply if you could tell us what -- but I think she's already \ntold us what she can recall her husband said.\n\n\n\n Well, that answered the next question. That moots the \nobjection, and you can move to the next question.\n\n\n\n BY MR. HARVEY\n\n\n Do you remember Bill Buckingham speaking at this meeting?\n\n\n Oh, yes. There were not many meetings where Bill Buckingham did not speak. And, actually, at that meeting -- I believe the beginning of the meeting was an apology, actually, which he had prepared in advance apologizing to the members of the community if he had said anything that offended them. And it seemed to me sort of an inappropriate apology because -- or maybe \"inappropriate\" is not the correct word, but not a sincere apology because almost immediately after he had given his apology, he started doing the same things that he had always done, which was to demean the public, to say negative comments.\n\n\n Do you remember specifically anything he said?\n\n\n Yes. He made comments like, years ago someone died on the Cross, can't we take a stand for Him. He made comments about the liberals in black robes coming and taking away our freedoms in the school. He made many, many comments at that meeting.\n\n\n Now, did you attend any other meetings of the Dover Area School District Board of Directors that summer?\n\n\n No, we didn't attend that summer.\n\n\n And did you attend any meetings that fall?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n Did you attend the meeting on or about October the 18th of 2004?\n\n\n Yes, we did.\n\n\n And can you just tell us briefly what you can recall about that meeting?\n\n\n Well, there was -- at this point in time it was the change in the curriculum that was being proposed and voted on that evening. And, again, this was a heated meeting. There were many members of the community who stood to speak, science department members. Jen Miller spoke, although I didn't really know who she was at the time. I recall her speaking on behalf of her biology course. I recall Bertha Spahr again speaking. My husband again spoke at this meeting. And, again, other members of the community spoke at that meeting.\n\n\n Did you and your husband stay for the whole meeting?\n\n\n No, we didn't.\n\n\n Now, during the time that you were at the meeting, did you hear any discussion among the board members about the reasons for the proposed change to the biology curriculum?\n\n\n During the board meeting?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n No.\n\n\n Did you attend a meeting the following week, on or about November the 2nd, 2004?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n And can you remember anything from that meeting?\n\n\n Yes. I recall Noel Weinrich who had spoken at other meetings, as well, was upset about the vote that they had taken and was sort of urging them to rethink the vote.\n\n\n Do you remember anyone requesting access to --\n\n\n Oh, yes.\n\n\n -- a tape of the October 18th meeting?\n\n\n Yes. Because my husband and I had left early -- we had our infant with us and he needed to get home -- we had heard that there were comments that were said after we left about teachers should be fired if they don't listen to the school board's directive. And we wanted to hear that for ourselves, so my husband had previously requested the tapes and then at that meeting he stood again to request the tapes. In addition, Barrie Callahan had stood to request the tapes at that meeting, as well.\n\n\n And do you remember if any members of the school board spoke in response to either your husband or Barrie Callahan with respect to the subject of the tapes?\n\n\n Yes. Barrie -- I'm sorry, Alan Bonsell said very clearly that -- Dr. Nilsen had said something, as well, about the tapes, that it's not policy or something like that, that this is not past practice, this is not policy, this is not standard policy to release tapes to the public. And additionally, Alan Bonsell made the comment that they couldn't release the tapes because after speaking with their solicitor, there would possibly be legal issues, ramifications if they released the tapes.\n\n\n Now, I'd like to just ask you just a couple more questions. Mrs. Rehm, do you believe that the board's actions with respect to the change to the biology curriculum have caused any harm to you?\n\n\n Yes, absolutely.\n\n\n And can you please tell us how you have been harmed?\n\n\n Well, in numerous ways. First, as a teacher, professionally, I feel that teachers in general are harmed, myself, as well, because there's a dichotomy here in what they're saying about this statement that they have passed on intelligent design as they're not teaching it. On the other hand, they've said that it enhances state standards and critical thinking. In my mind, everything that you do in a classroom is teaching. And I don't necessarily think that's just in my mind. I believe that's true of all educators. The way I dress when I go to work tells my students something. The statements I make or the statements that I do not make in my classroom tell my students something. So I think we're charged with, you know, having an ethical decision to make when we walk into the classroom, the things that we say and the things that we do, and so I think that's very important. But you can't say when you walk into a classroom, you're not teaching. And if that's what's happening in the Dover school system and my children are in that school system, that they're routinely establishing practices that is not teaching in the classroom, then that's shameful. In addition, I have a child who is in the ninth-grade biology class, and this has spilled over into other classes. It's not just the biology class that has been affected by this. My child has heard comments from other students, school board member students in her classroom about evolution being against their religion, and do you think we came from monkeys, how can you think we came from monkeys. It used to be a weekly occurrence. It's now a daily occurrence, and my daughter comes home from school upset about these comments that are being made to her and, you know, is looking for guidance on how to respond to these questions. Also, intelligent design is not a scientific concept. It's a religious concept. And because I don't subscribe to that particular brand of religion, I feel that I and my daughter, my family, are being ridiculed, and my daughter feels the pressure. I reserve the right to teach my child about religion. And I have faith in myself and in my husband and in my pastor to do that, not the school system.\n\n\n Thank you. No further questions.\n\n\n\n All right. Before we start the cross-examination, I think \nthis will be an appropriate time for our afternoon break. We'll take \nthat break for approximately 20 minutes, no longer than that, and we \nwill return with Mr. Muise's cross-examination of the witness. We'll \nbe in recess. (Recess taken.) \n\n\n\n Mr. Muise, you may \ncross-examine. \n\n\n\n Thank you, Your Honor.\n\n\n\n CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. MUISE\n\n\n Good afternoon, Ms. Rehm. Your oldest child is 14 years old. Is that correct?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n And your child's name is Alix?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n And Alix is presently in the ninth-grade biology class at Dover High School?\n\n\n Yes, she is.\n\n\n And my understanding from your husband's testimony yesterday is that she hasn't yet reached the section in biology that deals with evolution. Is that correct?\n\n\n Yes. After looking at her syllabus, it appears that evolution comes later in the course. I wouldn't say at the end, but closer to the end of the course.\n\n\n And so she hasn't heard this one-minute statement be read in the class yet?\n\n\n She has not, no.\n\n\n Now, you testified about two -- or several meetings, but two meetings in particular I want to ask you some questions about. And those are the meetings that occurred on June 7th of 2004 and then the meeting on June 14th of 2004. Okay?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n I believe you described these meetings as involving some heated exchanges between some board members and the public. Is that correct?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n And it's my sense from your testimony that the majority of the statements that you appear to find objectionable were statements made by Mr. Buckingham?\n\n\n No. There were statements made by many of the school board members that I found objectionable. It's just that Mr. Buckingham always seemed to say very inappropriate things. But in addition, Alan Bonsell said very inappropriate things, and Noel Weinrich said very inappropriate things. It's just that I didn't give much credit to Noel Weinrich's comments because he would say things like, Darwin's at least what, 60 years old, a theory becomes a theory if you say it over and over again. Those are the kind of things he would say. But they were all very outspoken.\n\n\n Now, the controversy on the June 7th and June 14th meeting was surrounding the selection of a biology textbook. Correct?\n\n\n June 7th and June 14th?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n And the biology textbook that was in question at the time, I believe it was the version of the Miller-Levine biology book. Is that your understanding?\n\n\n It very well could be. I'm not sure what the edition in debate was.\n\n\n But the statements that you testified to and the controversy that you were describing was surrounding the purchase or selection of that particular biology book for the school district. Correct?\n\n\n Yes, it was definitely the Miller-Levine textbook. I don't know what the edition was or the copyright date or any of that information, but I do know that it was that biology textbook that was being debated very rigorously.\n\n\n And, in fact, the school district purchased the Miller-Levine biology book to be used as the primary text for the ninth-grade biology class. Correct?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n And that would be the textbook that your daughter Alix will be using?\n\n\n Yes, with the dragonfly on it.\n\n\n She already has the book?\n\n\n She has the book, yes.\n\n\n Have you looked through it?\n\n\n Have I looked through the book? Yes, I have looked through the book.\n\n\n Do you have any objections with the book?\n\n\n No, I don't.\n\n\n She wasn't given a copy of Pandas and People, was she?\n\n\n No, she was not.\n\n\n So the only required textbook for that class was that biology book that was creating all the controversy on June 7th and June 14th. Is that correct?\n\n\n To my knowledge, the only required book is that book, in addition to supplemental materials that the instructor has.\n\n\n Now, you made a comment in your direct testimony that intelligent design conflicts with your brand of religion.\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n Is intelligent design another brand of religion?\n\n\n No. What I'm saying is that I believe intelligent design, as well as the ideas of creationism, in particular, the Young Earth creationists, which, I'm sorry, I don't agree with. don't agree with the age of, you know, the earth and their opinion. There are things that I do not believe. And I do not believe the same things as the board members who adopted that statement.\n\n\n And so your understanding is intelligent design is the same as Young Earth creationism?\n\n\n Well, to my understanding, intelligent design just presupposes that everything in life is too complex, that it has to be designed. But I also know that creationism was used repeatedly with the term -or, I'm sorry, not with the term \"intelligent design.\" Intelligent design came up after the fact. But I do know that, in its original context, it was creationism that was being used. And when I think of creationists, again, I think of Young Earth creationists, and I do not subscribe to that way of thinking.\n\n\n And so, again, you're associating Young Earth creationism with intelligent design?\n\n\n There is a connection in my mind, yes.\n\n\n If you could be shown that intelligent design does not require the action of a supernatural creator and, in fact, is based on observable and empirical facts, would you change your opinion?\n\n\n I believe that if intelligent design could be proved to be scientific, then I would believe it would belong in a science classroom. Would I believe it? I don't know that scientifically I'm qualified to say, you know, that I believe many scientific concepts because I'm -- I'm not a scientist. But I suppose that if intelligent design could follow scientific methods, then -- and it were proven to be scientific by scientists, it was accepted by scientific communities, then I would have no reason not to accept that.\n\n\n I want to explore your understanding of what has actually taken place in this ninth-grade biology class that your daughter Alix is presently taking. Is it your understanding that Darwin's theory of evolution will be taught in this class pursuant to the Pennsylvania academic standards?\n\n\n I would hope so. And as far as I know, that is the case, because Dover says that it is a standards-based school, and so I assume that when they say that and they say that students have to pass certain material before they can be advanced into new material, that they would have to be abiding by the state standards.\n\n\n And I take it from your answer you have no objection to that?\n\n\n To following state standards, no, I have no objection.\n\n\n And so it's your understanding that the Pennsylvania state standards require students to learn about Darwin's theory of evolution and eventually take a standardized test of which that theory is a part of it?\n\n\n Yes, the PSSA test, yes.\n\n\n And you have no objection to that?\n\n\n To my students taking a PSSA test, well, you know, I -- being an educator, I'm not in love with PSSA tests or standardized tests. But if you're asking me if I object to my daughter taking a standardized test with that information on it, of course not. I would hope that they would provide lots of academic information on those tests.\n\n\n And is it your understanding that because Dover is a standards-driven district, that they're going to focus their class time on preparing students to achieve proficiency on those standard-based assessments?\n\n\n I'm sorry, can you repeat that?\n\n\n Yes. Is it your understanding that because Dover is a standard-based district, the class instruction is going to focus on preparing students to achieve proficiency on those standard-based tests that we were just describing?\n\n\n Not only is that my understanding, but that is what I would expect.\n\n\n And you have no objection to that?\n\n\n No, I don't.\n\n\n Is it your understanding that because Dover is a standards-driven district, that students will not be tested on the intelligent design theory?\n\n\n As I know it and as it is written, there is no test on intelligent design.\n\n\n And from your previous answer, I believe you do understand that the Dover School District purchased, for its ninth-grade biology class, the edition of the Miller and Levine biology book. Correct?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n And you have no objection to that book being used in the class?\n\n\n No, I do not.\n\n\n Is it your understanding that this biology book provides thorough coverage of Darwin's theory of evolution?\n\n\n Actually, did you ask me if it's my understanding or if --\n\n\n If it's your understanding. I mean, you have to testify about your knowledge, ma'am.\n\n\n Okay. What I've seen of actually Darwin in the textbook, in my opinion, is actually quite slim. It follows state standards, of course. And, actually, to me, it gives more of a historical context of Darwin than anything as far as what I have read. And I did look at that section, and I looked basically through the book. And it appears to be historical mainly in context of Darwin's time frame and what he did for science.\n\n\n Has Dr. Miller left the courtroom?\n\n\n Maybe we should ask. So if you're asking me if I feel it's enough or if it's -- I'm not sure what it is you're asking me about that. I feel, actually, that there are topics that probably could be explored in more detail, but I understand that there are limitations within any textbook that you have to hit on core concepts. I believe that core concepts are covered, but I think that, in my opinion, what I've looked at, it's historical context.\n\n\n Is it your understanding that it presents Darwin's theory of evolution in a manner that is consistent with its standing in the scientific community?\n\n\n As much as I know about the scientific community -- and, you know, you have to remember that's not my discipline. But as much as I know about what the high school science standards say, it would be in standing with that. As far as the scientific community, I really can't go there, because I know that there is a lot more about Darwin than is in that textbook. I mean, I can absolutely say that without knowing everything about Darwin or knowing everything about science.\n\n\n Do you have any reason to believe that what's in the biology book is inconsistent with what the scientific community --\n\n\n Absolutely not, no. No, I would have no reason to believe that.\n\n\n Is it your understanding that the book Of Pandas and People was placed in the library for students to review?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n It's your understanding that no student was required to read any portion of the Pandas book?\n\n\n Right, just as no student is required to read anything that's in the library unless they choose to.\n\n\n You have no objection to Pandas being in the library?\n\n\n No, absolutely not. I don't object to Pandas being in the library, just like I don't object to, you know, any of the other books being in the library, as long as -- as long as it's the appropriate level and -- you know, I mean, there is a censorship process that goes into putting books in the library. So, I mean, as long as it has gone through that process and it's approved to be there, I don't have a problem with it being there.\n\n\n The statement that the school district developed to be read as part of the biology class, is it your understanding that the statement that was drafted in January, 2005, or for use in January, 2005, was modified in June of 2005? Are you aware of that?\n\n\n Can you say that again?\n\n\n I'm sorry, I wasn't that precise. The original statement that was drafted by the Dover School District was modified in June of 2005. Are you aware of that?\n\n\n Well, I'm aware that that statement was modified several times. In fact, there were different drafts of that statement that I had seen. The exact modification, are you telling me that from the time that they had approved it in October, it was modified before it was read in January? Because it was again read in, I believe, like May, and there was a change from that point in time, unless I'm incorrect and that is the change that I'm thinking of.\n\n\n Were you aware that there was a change made to the statement at one point to indicate that Pandas was in the library, as well as additional resources in the library addressing intelligent design?\n\n\n Yes, I am aware that there was a change.\n\n\n Are you aware of that change?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n Is it your understanding that some of these additional books that were put in the library are actually critical of intelligent design?\n\n\n Actually, I am, because I recall them -- an organization actually sending the library those books, because there was controversy in those books being put in there, too. And there were many members of the community who had called to see whether those books had actually gotten there or not, into the library, because we weren't certain that those books were going to be allowed in the library, permitted in the library.\n\n\n They're in the library?\n\n\n Well, a parent -- the books that are critical to --\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n I'm assuming that they had gotten there.\n\n\n You never checked?\n\n\n There were a couple instances where friends of mine had tried to check on the status of the books in the library but were not permitted to go in at that time. So I am only assuming that those books are there now because I am being told that they are. But as for myself walking into a library and seeing them there, I did not.\n\n\n Do you have any objection to these additional books being placed in the library?\n\n\n No, I do not.\n\n\n No \nfurther questions, Your\nHonor.\n\n\n\n Any redirect?\n\n\n\n No, Your Honor.\n\n\n\n Ma'am, you may step down. That\nwill complete your testimony, and you may call your next witness. \n\n\n\n Your Honor, plaintiffs call to the stand Plaintiff Beth \nEveland. \n\n\n\n BETH EVELAND, called as a witness, having been duly sworn or affirmed, testified as follows:\n\n\n\n State your name and spell \nyour name for the record. \n\n\n\n Sure. My name is Beth \nEveland, B-e-t-h, E-v-e-l-a-n-d. \n\n\n\n DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. HARVEY\"\n\n\n Please state your name.\n\n\n Beth Eveland.\n\n\n And where do you live, Ms. -- is it Ms. or Mrs.?\n\n\n Mrs.\n\n\n Mrs. Eveland.\n\n\n Colonial Road, Dover, Pennsylvania.\n\n\n And how long have you lived there?\n\n\n I've lived there approximately eight years now.\n\n\n Are you married?\n\n\n Yes, I am.\n\n\n Do you have children?\n\n\n Yes, I do.\n\n\n How many children do you have?\n\n\n Two.\n\n\n And how old are they?\n\n\n I have a seven-year-old daughter and a five-year-old daughter.\n\n\n And what schools do they attend?\n\n\n They attend the Leib Elementary School in the Dover School District.\n\n\n And do you have plans for your children to continue to attend public schools in Dover?\n\n\n Yes, I do.\n\n\n And what are those plans?\n\n\n To continue keeping them, you know, going through the Dover School District.\n\n\n And do you work outside the home?\n\n\n Yes, I do.\n\n\n And please tell us what you do.\n\n\n I am a legal assistant.\n\n\n Now, did there come a time when you learned that the Dover Area School District Board of Directors was discussing or considering approval of a biology textbook?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n And when was that?\n\n\n It was approximately June, 2004.\n\n\n And do you remember how you learned that?\n\n\n I had read an article in the York Daily Record.\n\n\n Now, I'd like you to look at what's been marked and is in the notebook before you as P46.\n\n\n All right.\n\n\n\n Excuse me, Your Honor. I just want to make sure \nthat this testimony, to the extent it relates to the newspaper \narticle, is subject to our standing objection.\n\n\n\n Well, what is 46?\n\n\n\n It's a June 9th article from the York Daily Record.\n\n\n\n Well, I don't know what the question is. It may relate \nto your standing objection, but we'll note that. We'll hold that \nthought, and you can proceed with the question, because all we have \nis the exhibit that is a newspaper article. So let's proceed with \nthe question. There's no need to restate your objection, unless you \nwant to\nput a finer point on the objection. But at this point, proceed with \nyour question.\n\n\n\n BY MR. HARVEY\n\n\n Did you read this article on or around June the 9th of 2004?\n\n\n Yes, I did.\n\n\n And following reading this article, did you attend any meeting of the Dover Area School District?\n\n\n Yes, I did.\n\n\n And approximately when was that?\n\n\n Approximately the end of June through the present.\n\n\n What I'd like to know is if you attended a meeting after this June 9th -- excuse me, this board meeting that's reported in this article?\n\n\n Yes, I did.\n\n\n And what was the date of the next board meeting that you believe you attended?\n\n\n It would have been approximately June 15th, June 16th.\n\n\n And can you tell us whether -- when you remember that you attended this board meeting?\n\n\n When I remember that I attended this board meeting?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n In preparation for trial, looking back through my deposition testimony and thinking about things that had happened, it occurred to me that, you know, I was there at that June meeting.\n\n\n And what is it about that June board meeting that made you remember that you were there?\n\n\n I remember Casey Brown, one of the board members at the time, discussing, during the board meeting with the board, that she felt they were, I'm paraphrasing, treading, you know, on -- they were treading closely to violating the Pennsylvania State Board of Education regulations on religion in the classroom.\n\n\n And do you remember anything that was said by any board members at that meeting that you attended in June of 2004?\n\n\n Yes, I do.\n\n\n What do you remember?\n\n\n I remember Bill Buckingham making the statement, years ago somebody died on the Cross, can't someone take a stand for Him.\n\n\n Now, what was your reaction to what you saw and heard at the board meeting on or about -- I think you said June the 15th or 16th? I think, for the record, it's established that it's June the 14th. But tell us, what was your reaction to what you heard?\n\n\n I was shocked. I was just utterly shocked.\n\n\n And did you do anything in response to that?\n\n\n Yes, I did. I had wrote a letter to the editor.\n\n\n And was that before or after you attended that board meeting?\n\n\n I wrote a letter to the editor -- I believe it was actually written before I attended the board meeting, but it wasn't published until after that June 14th board meeting.\n\n\n And where did you send that letter to the editor, which newspaper?\n\n\n I submitted it to the three local newspapers, York Daily Record, York Sunday News, and York Dispatch.\n\n\n And did you do anything, before you sent it to those papers, with the content of the letter?\n\n\n Yes, I did. I had e-mailed a letter basically stating the same thing in my letter to the board president at the time, Alan Bonsell, a copy to Dr. Nilsen, and I mailed a copy to Mr. Buckingham.\n\n\n Now, please turn to what's been marked and is in the notebook before you as P56.\n\n\n Okay.\n\n\n Do you have it in front of you?\n\n\n Yes, I do.\n\n\n And can you tell us what it is?\n\n\n It looks to me to be a copy of a letter to the editor that I wrote.\n\n\n And I'm going to ask you to read this letter into the record.\n\n\n Okay.\n\n\n Objection, Your \nHonor. This letter is hearsay.\n\n\n\n Say it again. I'm sorry.\n\n\n\n Objection, hearsay.\n\n\n\n Why is it hearsay?\n\n\n\n She's going to be reading in the letter, the contents of \nthe statement. It's an out-of-court statement. They're obviously \noffering it for the truth of the matter.\n\n\n\n Who wrote the letter?\n\n\n\n She wrote the letter.\n\n\n\n Overruled.\n\n\n\n BY MR. HARVEY\n\n\n Please.\n\n\n \"As a parent in the Dover Area School District, I must convey my shock and utter dismay at William Buckingham's comments regarding the search for new biology texts for the high school. I am especially upset with Mr. Buckingham's comments as quoted in Wednesday's York Daily Record: 'This country wasn't founded on Muslim beliefs or evolution. This country was founded on Christianity, and our students should be taught as such.' This statement is in direct contradiction to the mission statement of the Dover schools. \"In partnership with family and community to educate students, we emphasize sound, basic skills and nurture the diverse needs of our students as they strive to become lifelong learners and contributing members of our global society. What a slap in the face to many of the parents and taxpayers of the Dover area. How sad that a member of our own school board would be so closed-minded and not want to carry on the mission of Dover schools. \"His ignorance will not only hold back children attending Dover area schools, but also reinforce other communities' views that Dover is a backwards, close-minded community. If it was simply a matter of selecting a text that gives two contradicting scientific theories equal time, that would be an entirely different matter, but it's not. Creationism is religion, plain and simple. \"Mr. Buckingham's comments offend me, not because they are religious in nature, but because it is my duty to teach my children about religion as I see fit, not the Dover Area School District during a biology class.\"\n\n\n Now, that letter was actually published in the paper?\n\n\n Yes, it was.\n\n\n And did you see it in the paper?\n\n\n Yes, I did.\n\n\n And did you read any response to your letter in the paper?\n\n\n Yes, I did.\n\n\n And can you tell us who submitted -- whose response did you read in the paper?\n\n\n It was a published response noting Heather Geesey as the author.\n\n\n And who is Heather Geesey?\n\n\n She is a member of the Dover Area School Board.\n\n\n And her response letter was published in what newspaper?\n\n\n I believe it was either the York Dispatch or the York Daily Record.\n\n\n And please turn to what's been marked in the notebook before you as P60.\n\n\n Okay.\n\n\n Does that help you remember, looking at it, what newspaper it was published in?\n\n\n It was published in the York Daily Record.\n\n\n And what is that that's marked as P60?\n\n\n It is a letter from Heather Geesey to the editor in response to my letter.\n\n\n And did you see it at the time?\n\n\n Yes, I did.\n\n\n Please read that into the record.\n\n\n Objection, Your Honor. Our standing \nobjection, as well as she has not established a foundation that \nactually Heather Geesey wrote this article. She has no personal \nknowledge.\n\n\n\n Let me first view the exhibit. Do you want to respond to\nthe objection?\n\n\n\n Yes, Your Honor. We submitted an exhibit list to the \nother side, and we were told there were no authentication issues with\nrespect to any of this, so there's no question about the \nauthenticity of this, nor do I understand -- and further, it's not \noffered for the truth of the matter asserted, so there's no hearsay \nobjection.\n\n\n\n Well, on the authentication,\nlet's take it in two parts. My understanding was that there was not \nan authentication issue. That does refresh my recollection on that \npoint. Now, if there's not an authentication issue, we'll move on to \nthe second --\n\n\n\n Actually, Mr. Muise may be at a disadvantage here. I did\nagree with Steve that we -he has an affidavit from someone who has \nindicated they have collected newspaper articles. So with respect to \nthat issue, there's no objection. I have agreed that she has \nauthenticated what she did to produce this article.\n\n\n\n All right. Very well. So there's no question then that \nthis represents a letter written by Ms. Geesey to the York Daily \nRecord. Is that correct from the defense standpoint?\n\n\n\n That is correct, Your Honor. That's the representation \nthat has been made in an affidavit, and I accept it.\n\n\n\n Now, counsel for the plaintiff is indicating the letter as\nbeing produced on the issue of -- or to show notice, obviously, on \nthe effect prong. Do you want speak to that?\n\n\n\n Your Honor, I would also note that it's an admission of \na party opponent.\n\n\n And I think it would come in under that basis, but that \nwould be the hearsay justification or the justification that would get\naround a hearsay objection. But the purpose of the letter is under \nthe second prong. Is that correct?\n\n\n\n It is for that purpose, and it's also to show that Ms. \nGeesey talked about the statements that were made in this letter at \nthis time. That's one of the issues in the case.\n\n\n\n So it could go to truth inasmuch as it's an admission. \nIs that correct?\n\n\n\n Exactly.\n\n\n\n All right.\n\n\n\n Your Honor, as you know, we've got the question of \nwhether or not these are admissible for effect. Our position on that \nwe've articulated. I don't know if you want us to argue at greater \nlength or brief, but it's hearsay to the extent it's offered for the\ntruth of the matter asserted as effect.\n\n\n\n Well, I think that you reserved that argument. We've had \nthat discussion. I'm inclined -- because it's a bench trial, I'll admit\nit conditionally. Whether I'll consider it in my ultimate \ndetermination will be a function of the\nargument that I'm allowing you to reserve and make.\n\nBut for the purpose of this witness, conditionally and subject to \nadditional argument from counsel, we'll admit the letter and you may \nproceed.\n\n\n\n Thank you, Your Honor.\n\n\n\n BY MR. HARVEY\n\n\n Please read the letter.\n\n\n \"This letter is in regard to the comments made by Beth Eveland from York Township in the June York Sunday News. I assure you that the Dover Area School Board is not going against its mission statement. In fact, if you read the statement, it says to educate our students so that they can be contributing members of society. \"I do not believe in teaching revisionist history. Our country was founded on Christian beliefs and principles. We are not looking for a book that is teaching students that this is a wrong thing or a right thing. It is just a fact. All we are trying to accomplish with this task is to choose a biology book that teaches the most prevalent theories. \"The definition of 'theory' is merely a speculative or an ideal circumstance. To present only one theory or to give one option would be directly contradicting our mission statement. You can teach creationism without it being Christianity. It can be presented as a higher power. That is where another part of Dover's mission statement comes into play. That part would be in partnership with family and community. You as a parent can teach your child your family's ideology.\"\n\n\n And what was your reaction to that letter when you read it in the paper, Mrs. Eveland?\n\n\n That really concerned me.\n\n\n Why?\n\n\n That made me question, first of all, was she writing on behalf of just herself or on behalf of the whole school board since it was signed Dover Area School Board Director, and I sensed a religious intonation.\n\n\n Now, I'd like you to tell us, did you attend board meetings in after June?\n\n\n Yes, I did.\n\n\n And which board meetings did you attend?\n\n\n All of them.\n\n\n And do you believe that -- were you at the meeting on October the 18th of 2004?\n\n\n Yes, I was.\n\n\n And did you hear the board discuss any reason for adopting the proposed curriculum change?\n\n\n No, I didn't.\n\n\n Do you feel that you've been harmed by the board's actions?\n\n\n Yes, I do.\n\n\n And please tell us how you believe that you have been harmed by the board's actions.\n\n\n I feel it's my duty, as a parent, to introduce any kind of faith-based concept to my children, not the Dover Area School District. While my children are small, you know, this policy is district-wide, and there's nothing to prevent it from being trickled down into the elementary level. It's just something that I feel strongly that my husband and I, that's our task to bring faith to our children.\n\n\n\n Thank you. No further questions. \n\n\n\n All right. \nCross-examine, Mr. Muise. \n\n\n\n CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. MUISE:\n\n\n Good afternoon, ma'am.\n\n\n Good afternoon.\n\n\n You said your oldest child is seven years old?\n\n\n Yes, she is.\n\n\n And what grade is she in?\n\n\n She's a second-grader.\n\n\n So she's seven years out from attending the ninth-grade biology class at Dover High School?\n\n\n That's correct.\n\n\n Now, you have an interest in science. Is that correct?\n\n\n Somewhat, yeah.\n\n\n I believe in your deposition you indicated in your day-to-day events you try to spark your children's interest in science?\n\n\n Yes, I do.\n\n\n And you believe it's important to make science interesting for your children?\n\n\n Yes, I do.\n\n\n You don't have any specific training in evolutionary theory. Correct?\n\n\n No, I don't.\n\n\n I want to get a sense for what your understanding is of what is going on in the ninth-grade biology class that your daughter will be attending several years from now. Is it your understanding that Darwin's theory of evolution is going to be taught pursuant to the state academic standards?\n\n\n It is my understanding, yes.\n\n\n And that students will be tested on subjects that are based on those standards, including the theory of evolution?\n\n\n Yes, that is my understanding.\n\n\n And it's your understanding that the students will not be tested on the theory of intelligent design?\n\n\n That is also my understanding, yes.\n\n\n Is it also your understanding that it is a standards-based district, so classroom instruction will focus on achieving those standard-based assessments in which they will eventually be tested on?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n And intelligent design is not part of those standard-based assessments?\n\n\n As far as my understanding, yes, it is currently not.\n\n\n And these board meetings that you attended in June, the controversy was surrounding the purchase of a biology text for the class. Correct?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n Do you know which book it was that the controversy was about?\n\n\n I believe at the time it was the Miller and Levine biology text.\n\n\n And isn't it true it was Mr. Buckingham's objections to that biology text which precipitated some of these statements that you were referring to in your direct testimony?\n\n\n That's correct.\n\n\n And what action did the board actually take with regard to the biology book?\n\n\n Well, with regard to the biology book?\n\n\n With regard to the biology book for the ninth-grade class.\n\n\n It's my understanding that they held off on the vote in June because there was a new edition that was going to come out. And they wanted to get the most current book instead of wasting money on an older book.\n\n\n And so they ended up purchasing the version?\n\n\n Yes, they did. Yes, they did.\n\n\n Have you seen that book?\n\n\n I have briefly looked at it.\n\n\n Now, my understanding is you went to these board meetings in June because of the controversy over the biology book?\n\n\n Yeah, part of it.\n\n\n You said you just skimmed this biology book that was at the center of the controversy?\n\n\n It was available on the table where the board was sitting, and I went up front and took a look at it for maybe a minute or two.\n\n\n In those two minutes that you spent actually looking at the book that was the center of this controversy, was there anything in that two-minute review that you saw that you objected to?\n\n\n No. I just basically looked through the table of contents quickly.\n\n\n Is it your understanding that that book that was eventually purchased by the Dover Area School District covers the theory of evolution consistent with its status in the scientific community?\n\n\n That's my understanding, yes.\n\n\n Now, these meetings that you attended, would you describe them as being fairly contentious?\n\n\n Fairly contentious, yes.\n\n\n Shouting matches, I believe the term you used in your --\n\n\n I think a circus-like atmosphere would be quite appropriate.\n\n\n Now, is it your recollection that the first time the Pandas book was mentioned was during the July meeting that you attended?\n\n\n I remember it being mentioned. I cannot give you a specific date. The dates run together after a while.\n\n\n How about mentioning the theory of intelligent design, do you recall when you may have heard that theory first mentioned?\n\n\n To the best of my recollection, it was first mentioned June, July sometime. At the time it seemed that creationism and intelligent design were kind of used hand-in-hand interchangeably.\n\n\n During these public comments that precipitated some of those statements that you were referring to, was it your impression that Mr. Buckingham and Mr. Noel Weinrich were taking the comments as being personally directed toward them?\n\n\n Not only them, but the vast majority of board members, yes, they were.\n\n\n So they saw them as being personal attacks against them?\n\n\n Yeah.\n\n\n Now, the first meeting you attended in July, you spoke with Joe Maldonado. Correct?\n\n\n Yes. And I believe the first -- as I testified earlier, the first meeting I actually had attended was the second meeting in June.\n\n\n I guess my question is, the first meeting that you attended in July --\n\n\n Yes, I had spoken to Joe Maldonado.\n\n\n And who is Joe Maldonado?\n\n\n It's my understanding he is a reporter with the York Dispatch.\n\n\n And during this conversation, he approached you and asked if you had read or were familiar with some comments that he had quoted in the paper, and those were Mr. Buckingham's comments. Correct?\n\n\n Yes, he had.\n\n\n And he asked you what your thoughts were about those comments?\n\n\n Yes, he did.\n\n\n And he also asked you if you would ask for Mr. Buckingham's resignation on the spot. Correct?\n\n\n That's correct.\n\n\n And you told him that you didn't think that was going to happen?\n\n\n I told him that I would just sit back and wait and see what happened.\n\n\n And your sense for why he asked you this was that you thought he was trying to elicit something sensational for his paper?\n\n\n There is that possibility of trying to elicit something sensational, but I think he was also trying to prepare for what might happen later on in the meeting since they tended to denigrate in shouting matches.\n\n\n May I approach this witness, Your \nHonor? THE COURT: You may.\n\n\n\n BY MR. MUISE\n\n\n Ma'am, I'm handing you what is your deposition testimony that you gave on March 28th of 2005. And I'd like you to read, if you look on Page 64, read from Line 18 through 25, and then we'll continue on the next page once you finish that.\n\n\n \"The first board meeting I attended in July he approached me before the meeting started and asked if I had read the -- if I was familiar with the comments that were quoted in the paper. I told him just simply what I had read. \"He asked me what I thought about it, and I said, The comments, I don't feel that is appropriate. He asked me if I asked for Mr. Buckingham's resignation on the spot. I told him I didn't think that that was going to happen.\"\n\n\n And the next line, Line 3, is a question which states, \"When Mr. Maldonado asked you that question, do you have a sense for why?\" Could you plead read your answer, which is Lines 5 through 8.\n\n\n \"Yeah. Based on what was quoted in the paper, yeah, I think he was trying to elicit some sensational whatever for the paper. It was my first board meeting. I just wanted to sit back and see what would happen.\"\n\n\n Were you testifying truthfully during that deposition?\n\n\n Yes, I was, to the best of my knowledge.\n\n\n You've had additional discussions with Mr. Maldonado about the happenings with the board. Correct?\n\n\n Yeah.\n\n\n And you also had conversations with Ms. Heidi Bubb?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n And she's a reporter?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n For which paper?\n\n\n She's a reporter for the Dispatch. I said earlier Mr. Maldonado was for the Dispatch. I believe he is actually a reporter for the Daily Record.\n\n\n I believe you testified in your deposition that after the complaint was filed, you actually spoke with Ms. Heidi Bubb quite a bit?\n\n\n Yes, at the board meetings. Well, I don't recall whether or not I did say after suit was filed, but I'll take your word for it if it's in my deposition testimony.\n\n\n I'm sorry, ma'am, could you --\n\n\n I said, I don't recall whether or not I did say that I had spoken with her after suit was filed. I mean, if that's what it says in my deposition testimony, that's what I testified to at the time.\n\n\n Let's go to Page 68 of your deposition transcript, ma'am.\n\n\n Okay.\n\n\n On Line 16, the question was asked, \"Can you recall generally when you spoke with her?\" And in reference of the -- if you look above, it's referring to Ms. Heidi Bubb. Can you read what your answer was on Lines 17 through 21?\n\n\n \"She would generally approach me after the meetings. Especially after the complaint was filed, I spoke with her a lot. She would ask me occasionally my thoughts, public comment, what I thought -- why I thought the board was doing what they were doing, those such things.\"\n\n\n Now, back in July or August, 2004, you had communications with the National Center for Science Education?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n I believe you joined the Listserv?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n And you also had a discussion with them regarding an interview with the AP?\n\n\n It was a brief e-mail exchange, but yes.\n\n\n Did you do that interview?\n\n\n No, I did not.\n\n\n Ma'am, do you understand that the statement that's going to be read to the students in the ninth-grade biology class was modified in June of 2005?\n\n\n Yes, I do.\n\n\n And do you understand that that modification indicated that the book Of Pandas and People would be in the library along with other resources regarding intelligent design?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n And is it your understanding that those other resources included books that are actually critical of intelligent design?\n\n\n Yes.\n\n\n Do you have any objection to that?\n\n\n No, I don't.\n\n\n Now, you testified about the harm that you've received based on these statements and the comments and the actions of the board. I'd like you to go to your deposition transcript, if you could, to Page 101.\n\n\n Okay.\n\n\n If you'd read from Line 16, which presents the question, until Line 2 of the next page.\n\n\n \"Question: Is there anything else that the board has done here in connection with the curriculum change that provides a basis for your complaint? \"Answer: From what I can see from attending the board meetings, I don't know, because so much of the curriculum debate takes place at non-public meetings that I am not aware of. And when board members are questioned at meetings, they really don't answer any questions. So it gives this whole illusion of secrecy to the process, which, you know, may be a big part of the problem. It may just be a big misunderstanding.\"\n\n\n Were you testifying truthfully when you answered that question?\n\n\n Yes, I was.\n\n\n No further questions, Your Honor.\n\n\n\n Redirect?\n\n\n\n No, Your Honor.\n\n\n\n All right. Then, ma'am, we thank you. You may step down. \nThis is probably an appropriate time for us to end today. We will \ndo so by admitting the exhibits that we need to, if we need to.\n\nP46 is the York Daily Record article. I assume we're going to \nwithhold admitting that pending further proceedings. Is that right, Mr.\nHarvey?\n\n\n\n Yes. We'll move it in after another witness, Your Honor.\n\n\n\n P56 is the witness's letter to the editor. Are you moving\nfor the admission of P56?\n\n\n\n Yes, Your Honor.\n\n\n\n Now, you've stated an objection to that. The objection is \nnoted. You don't have to restate it. And I will note the objection. \nDo you have any additional objections you want to make to that?\n\n\n\n Not at this time, Your Honor. That's it. \n\n\n\n All \nright. It's admitted subject to the defendants' objection. P60 is the \nletter from School Board Member Geesey to the editor again. I think \nI noted that it was admitted. Over the objection already of the \ndefendants, we'll reaffirm that, but you can make any other objections\nyou want to on the record, but I think that was thoroughly argued \nat that time.\n\n\n\n That's correct, Your Honor.\n\n\n\n All right. We will reconvene a little later tomorrow, at \n9:30 a.m., because of some matters that I must attend to, and the \nsession will go longer. With everybody's indulgence, I would expect to\ngo to approximately 5 o'clock, no later than 5 o'clock tomorrow to make \nup for the time that we lose during the morning session. So we will\nstand in recess until 9:30 a.m. on Thursday. We thank you all.\n\n\n\n (Whereupon, the proceedings were adjourned at 4:20 p.m.)\n\n \n\n\n\n\n\n \n\nCERTIFICATION\n\nI hereby certify that the proceedings and evidence are contained fully\nand accurately in the notes taken by me on the within proceedings \nand that this copy is a correct transcript of the same.\n\nDated in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, this 28th day of September, 2005.\n\nLori A. Shuey, RPR, CRR Official Court Reporter United States \nCourthouse Walnut Street, P.O. Box 983 Harrisburg, PA 17108-0983 \n(717)215-1270\n\n", "mode": "spoken", "name": "Day3PMSession", "class": "court-transcript"}
{"subclass": null, "text_id": "spoken/court-transcript/Lessig-court-transcript", "text": "\n \n \n \nNo. 01-618\nIN THE SUPREME COURT OF ATTORNEY GENERAL, Washington, D.C., THE UNITED STATES\nWednesday, October 9, 2002 The above-entitled matter came on for oral argument before\nthe Supreme Court of the United States at 10:03 a.m.\nAPPEARANCES: LAWRENCE LESSIG, ESQ., Stanford, California; on behalf of the\nPetitioners.\nTHEODORE B. OLSON, ESQ., Solicitor General, Department of Justice, Washington, D.C.;\non behalf of the Respondent.\n\n\nWe'll hear argument now in Number 01-618, Eric\nEldred v. John D. Ashcroft. Mr. Lessig.\nORAL ARGUMENT OF LAWRENCE LESSIG ON BEHALF OF THE PETITIONERS\n\nMr. Chief Justice, may it please the Court: Petitioners are\nbefore you this morning challenging Congress's 1998 Sonny Bono Copyright Term\nExtension Act, which extended the term of subsisting and future copyrights by 20\nyears. Petitioners submit such a blanket extension of existing terms exceeds\nCongress's power under the Copyright Clause and it violates the First Amendment.\nNow, the Government has responded to petitioners' argument in a way that betrays a\nsimple but fundamental confusion. The Government has argued as if petitioners had\nadvanced a general theory of the Copyright Clause, or a general constraint under\nwhich Congress must operate. That is a mistake. This case is about limits to an\nenumerated power. It's not about general power of Congress to exercise its copyright\nauthority. Petitioners have advanced a particular interpretation of the only express\nlimits in the Copyright Clause designed to give those limits meaning.\n\nMr. Lessig, I'll tell you what bothers me about your position,\nand that is that Congress has extended the term so often through the years, and if\nyou are right, don't we run the risk of upsetting previous extensions of time? I\nmean, this seems to be a practice that began with the very first act.\n\nJustice, we do not believe that the very first act extended\nterms at all. Speaking technically, which for a lawyer means speaking accurately,\nthe 1790 act did not extend a Federal term. The 1790 act granted a term for works\nthat already existed in precisely the pattern that the English parliament had done\nin the Statute of Anne in 1710, and that the English parliament did with monopolies,\ngeneral monopolies in the statute.\n\nBut there have been a number of extensions since. \n\nThat's right.\n\nEven if you can get over the first hurdle. \n\nThat's right. That's the important hurdle, and we'd like to\njump that first, but the other ones, Justice, you're right, in 1831 and in 1909\nCongress extended terms in a way that is inconsistent with the strongest form of the\ntest that we have advanced. Those extensions, however, were never challenged in any\ncourt and certainly not considered by this Court. \n\nWell, doesn't that itself mean something, Mr. Lessig? The fact\nthat they were never challenged, perhaps most people, and perhaps everybody felt\nthere was no basis for challenging them.\n\nWell, Mr. Chief Justice, it's absolutely true that this case\nis here because of a fundamentally important changed circumstance that makes the\nFramers' limitations on the Copyright Clause much more significant. This is the\nfirst time I can remember where this Court has been pointed to changed circumstances\nas a reason to reaffirm the Framers' values, because for most of this period, Mr.\nChief Justice, the only people who were regulated by copyright law under the\nCopyright Act would have been commercial publishers, primarily, and now for the\nfirst time the scope of this exclusive right has expanded because of the changed\ntechnology of the Internet to reach an extraordinarily broad range of creativity\nthat never would have been imagined before. Now, it's not the case that the earlier\nextensions were not questioned on constitutional grounds. In fact, Melville Nimmer,\nin the consideration of the 1976 act, suggested they were plainly under --\n\nWell, I'm talking about court challenges, not academic\nchallenges.\n\nThat's right, there is no court challenge.\n\nMr. Lessig, your theory, as I understand it, regardless of\nchanged circumstances or not, your basic theory, which on your argument would have\nbeen appropriate at any time historically, is that there has at least got to be the\npossibility of a kind of a causal connection between the extension and the promotion\nor inducement for the creation of some subsequent work, but why is that any more\nplausible a reading of the Promotion Clause than simply a reading that says the\nPromotion Clause requires that there be a general scheme in place, which overall\ntends to promote or induce, and part of one aspect of that scheme can be that the --\nthat at the discretion of Congress the period of protection is extended from time to\ntime? Why do you require -- why do you say the clause has got to be read by this\nkind of specific causation theory as opposed to a kind of systemic theory of\npromotion?\n\nJustice Souter, the reason is exactly related to the point I\nbegan with, that this is a case about limits and not about discretion. If it's not\nthe case that this Court -- \n\nNo, but that's -- I mean, that's the issue in the alternative reading.\n\nThat's right.\n\nAnd why is it a limit case, rather than a discretion within a\ngeneral scheme kind --\n\nThat's right. \n\n-- of clause?\n\nBecause if this Court does not adopt a reading of the form\nwe've offered, then there is no limit to the ability of Congress to extend\nsubsisting terms.\n\nDo you say the same thing for scope? This case is about\nduration, but Congress from time to time -- in fact, you mentioned --\n\nYes.\n\n-- the expanded applications of copyright, and Congress itself\nextends the scope from time to time.\n\nWould you make, as far as, say, translation rights that didn't\nexist before, the same argument?\n\nI -- \n\nWhy -- or -- and if you wouldn't, why not? \n\nI -- no, Justice Ginsburg, we would not, and the reason is\nagain related to the method we have adopted to interpret \"limited times.\" We have\nnot said that \"promote the progress of science\" is a general and independent\nconstraint on the Copyright Clause authority. We've said it must be looked to to\ninterpret the scope of \"limited times,\" and unless retrospective extensions are\nforbidden, it will eviscerate the meaning of \"limited times.\" That does not occur in\nthe context of the scope of exclusive right, nor in the context of the power to\nsecure. If that's -- \n\nCould we then go back to Justice O'Connor's question? To make\nthat very specific, if we agree with you, does that mean that we would, in\nprinciple, have to hold the 1976 extension unconstitutional? I mean, in 1976,\nCongress extended the term from 28 years renewable once, to life of the author plus\n50 years. Now they're extending it life of the author plus 70. If the latter is\nunconstitutional on your theory, how could the former not be? And if the former is,\nthe chaos that would ensue would be horrendous.\n\nJustice Breyer, under our theory as we've advanced it, you're\nright; the 1976 act would be unconstitutional. Whether this Court would apply such a\nholding in this case to that act is a question that would have to be resolved under\nthe retrospective -- \n\nMaybe we ought to find another theory, then. Is there any\n--\n\nJustice, the theory, which would advance the aim of limiting\ntimes in a way that is enforceable, is only applicable in the case that we brought\nbefore you here to the '98 act, and would not necessarily be applicable under the\n'76 act for the reasons the Government has offered. We would not advance this\nargument, but the Government has offered an argument in a parallel case that\nsuggests a distinction between the '76 act and this case. That's not been briefed\nhere. It's been grounded in their claim that the treaty power creates some special\npower. We wouldn't advance that claim, but the point is there are a number of issues\nthat the '76 act -- \n\nIn essence, you think it's at least arguable that the '76 act\nhad various positive aspects to it in terms of the purpose of the Copyright Clause\nthat this act lacks?\n\nThat's certainly true, and we also believe that, for the\nreasons averted to by amicus AOL in this case and the reasons you've just suggested,\nthe disruption in that context under the retrospectivity cases Ryder and\nReynoldsville Casket Company would be sufficient to fit it within the, quote,\n\"severe disruption exception\" to the retrospectivity.\n\nWell, I suppose implicit in the argument that the '76 act,\ntoo, should have been declared void, and that we might leave it alone because of the\ndisruption, is that for all these years the act has impeded progress in science and\nthe useful arts. I just don't see any empirical evidence for that. \n\nJustice, we are not making an empirical claim at all. Nothing in our\nCopyright Clause claim hangs upon the empirical assertion about impeding progress. \nOur only argument is, this is a structural limit necessary to assure that what would \nbe an effectively perpetual term not be permitted under the copyright laws.\n\nWell, perhaps I misunderstood. I thought the whole thrust of\nyour is a great First Amendment force silenced, that's being thwarted. \n\nWell, the thrust certainly --\n\nI thought\nthat's the whole underpinning of your case.\n\nIt's certainly the case that we are asserting, in light of the changed circumstances,\nthat the opportunity to build upon works within the public domain is a fundamental\nFirst Amendment interest, and that the First Amendment values, vital speech interest\nat stake of this case, is that the public domain be permitted as a source for\ncultivating work about our culture without unnecessary legal restriction. \n\nWell, but you want more than that. You want the right to copy\nverbatim other people's books,don't you? \n\nWe want the right to copy verbatim works that should be in\nthe public domain and would be in the public domain but for a statute that cannot be\njustified under ordinary First Amendment analysis or under a proper reading of the\nlimits built into the Copyright 16 Clause.\n\nMr. Lessig, on your First Amendment argument I don't see where\nthe retroactivity-prospectivity comes in, because -- I follow your argument under\nthe Copyright Clause, but if you're saying that the time is too long, the public\ndomain should get this stuff sooner rather than later, would you explain to me how\nyour prospectivity-retrospective line fits into your First Amendment claim? MR.\nLESSIG: Justice, we've argued that it would be inappropriate in this case for the\nCourt to consider the prospective line until they decide whether the case, whether\nthe prospective and retrospective is severable, and we submit it's an easy case to\nshow that it's not.\n\nOn the First Amendment --\n\nYes.\n\n-- argument you're making that as, I take it, an argument\nindependent of, it doesn't hang on your Copyright Clause argument.\n\nThat's right. I --\n\nThat's right.\n\nAnd so let's just take -- let's say that was your only\nargument in this case. How does that tie into a retrospective-prospective\ndistinction?\n\nWell, the strongest First Amendment argument is about the\nretrospective extension, because of a fundamental change that occurs when Congress\nextends subsisting copyrights, rather than when Congress legislates prospectively.\nWhen Congress legislates prospectively, it has no way to know who's going to benefit\nfrom its extension. It is simply evaluating what the term should be prospectively in\na way that we presume this Court should presume is legitimate under the First\nAmendment. When it legislates retrospectively, it is, in effect, looking at\nparticular authors and estates of authors who are before Congress asking for this\nextension, and it's choosing between these particular authors and the public at\nlarge. Now, it may be that in exercising that choice in this case, Congress made an\nobjective valuation of who would be in the best position to advance the interests of\npromoting the progress of science, or any original -- \n\nBut you -- under your intermediate scrutiny test we would not\nbe hypothesizing what might have been in Congress's mind. Your First Amendment test\nis a stringent one. You have to have an important purpose, and the means that you\nuse is necessarily tied to that purpose. If you take that position, I don't see how\nyou make the retroactive-prospective line work.\n\nWell, the line comes from deciding what the First Amendment\ninterest is, and if this Court heed the First Amendment interest off of this\ndifference between selecting who gets the benefit of 20 years of extension and just\nsimply legislating in a general way prospectively, then this Court could hold, with\nrespect to the prospective, that it's not even necessary to raise the intermediate\nscrutiny in that context, but again, for Ashwander reasons we don't think that this\nCourt should address the prospective aspect of the CTEA even under the First\nAmendment. \n\nEven though Congress's pattern has been to treat all authors\nequally? I mean, the reason that it's been prospective and retrospective is that\npeople should be, people who hold copyrights should be subject to the same regime\nand not have some people who got their copyrights the week before the law passed\ntreated differently than people who got it the week after.\n\nWell, Justice, that certainly is the reason the Government\noffers for this pattern. It, of course, doesn't explain actually what Congress has\ndone and, even in this case, when a work has passed into the public domain, then\nthere is precisely the same week before/week after problem that you advert to, that\nextension does not extend to all subsisting works, it only extends to all subsisting\ncopyrights. So that line is already drawn in the practice that Congress has adopted,\nbut our point is, the only way to assure --\n\nBut Congress has -- or, you're not disputing that Congress has\nalways made these extensions, both retroactive and prospective?\n\nWell, in 1831 it did not. In 1831 it granted the benefit of\nits extension to a subset of all subsisting copyright holders. \n\nLet's stick with 1976.\n\nIn 1976 -- \n\nBecause that was what you said -- that's -- the pattern under\nthe CTEA is identical to the one in the '76 act.\n\nThat's absolutely right, yes. So they have extended it to\nboth. But our argument is, unless this Court draws a line about this extension, then\nfor the reasons Judge Sentelle suggested below, there will be no limit to Congress's\nability to -- \n\nJudge Sentelle did not deal with the First Amendment, as far\nas I --\n\nThat's right. \n\n-- recall. \n\nThat's right. \n\nAnd so I'm asking you -- perhaps I'm missing it. I haven't seen\nwhere you get the prospective-retrospective in connection with your First Amendment.\nIt seems that you're just saying there that 70 years is an unreasonable -- is not necessary.\n\nYes. \n\nAnd it doesn't serve an important purpose.\n\nPrecisely--actually, we're not saying anything about the 70 years in this case even\nunder the First Amendment, because we believe it's unseverable, but --\n\nBut I thought you were saying that if you accept the Copyright\nClause argument, then you have a way, in effect, of devaluing the Government's claim\nof its important interest and important objective when you get to the First\nAmendment intermediate scrutiny analysis. Whereas if you don't accept the Copyright\nClause claim, then, in order to make the First Amendment analysis we've simply got\nto say, well, gee, is the promotion of useful art and so on more important than the\npublic domain, and can we say that that allows a distinction between 50 years and 70\nyears? We're pretty much at sea, so I thought your Copyright Clause argument was\nnecessary to give us some handle with which to deal with the First Amendment. \n\nOur Copyright Clause argument is certainly a way of framing\nwhy extensions of subsisting terms cannot be seen to promote the First Amendment\ninterest of speech at all. \n\nOkay. Let's assume we don't -- for the sake of argument here,\nlet's assume we don't accept the Copyright Clause argument. Do you have an\nindependent First Amendment argument in your brief? \n\nYes, of course we do. \n\nOkay, and it is -- tell me in a sentence or two what it is. I\nmean, at that point I'm where Justice Ginsburg is.\n\nYes. The First Amendment argument we've argued in our brief\nis with respect to the retrospective extension, and the First Amendment argument is,\nthat needs to --\n\nNo, but that's the Copyright Clause argument, and it seems to\nme you're saying, okay, we then apply that in First Amendment analysis, which allows\nus to make a coherent intermediate scrutiny argument. If we don't accept the\nCopyright Clause retrospectivity argument --\n\nYes. \n\n-- then what is your First Amendment argument?\n\nThat's right, I'm sorry, Justice. What I'm saying is not that\nit's the retrospectivity that makes the First Amendment argument troubling -- I\nmean, that drives our First Amendment argument. All I'm saying is, we have addressed\nthe retrospective portion of CTEA, and so I'm saying in the retrospective portion of\nCTEA you would apply ordinary, intermediate First Amendment review, and you would\nask --\n\nWell, this Court really has not -- if you say that the\nCopyright Clause is not violated, I don't think there are examples where this Court\nhas then resorted to First Amendment analysis to invalidate the same act.\n\nWell --\n\nI mean, this would be quite a new proposition.\n\nWell, Justice O'Connor, the First Amendment is always an\nindependent limitation on what otherwise would be legitimate exercises of\ncongressional authority, so this --\n\nYes, but the Framers seem adopted these two things at the same\ntime --\n\nThat's right.\n\n-- in effect. \n\nThat's right, and if -- \n\nAnd I think there are not to have examples that I can think of\nwhere we have said, well, we'll analyze it under the Copyright Clause, but if that\nfails we'll turn to the First Amendment.\n\nJustice, that's right. If only we had the Framers' copyright\nbefore us, because of course, again remember,the exclusive right the Framers spoke\nof was the right to print and publish. It didn't include the derivative rights, it\ndidn't include the display rights, and it certainly --\n\nRight. It has expanded very much, and they also envisioned a\nvery short term, and I can find a lot of fault with what Congress did here -- \n\nThat's right.\n\n-- because it does take a lot of things out of the public\ndomain that one would think that someone in Congress would want to think hard\nabout.\n\nThat's right.\n\nBut having done that, it's very difficult to find the basis in\nthe Constitution for saying it isn't a limited term. It's longer than one might\nthink desirable --\n\nRight.\n\n-- but is it not limited?\n\nWell, if it is limited, then there is no limit to the ability\nof Congress to extend subsisting terms, and that fundamentally destroys the\nobjective that the --\n\nThe rule against perpetuities might jump in there at some\npoint.\n\nRight, and we submit the Framers had something very different\nin mind than the rule against perpetuities. The point is, if this is permitted, then\nthere is no limit to the ability to extend terms, and that is precisely contrary to\nwhat the Framers had in mind when they worried about this problem originally. What\nwas the problem they were solving? It was, as this Court stated in Graham --\n\nWell, I could agree with you, in terms of policy, that this\nflies directly in the face of what the Framers had in mind, absolutely. But does it\nviolate the Constitution?\n\nWell, if it flies in the face of what the Framers had in\nmind, then the question is, is there a way of interpreting their words that gives\neffect to what they had in mind, and the answer is yes.\n\nWell, you know, certainly what is happening in the country\ntoday in the way of congressional -- under the Commerce Clause is totally different\nthan what the Framers had in mind, but we've never felt that that was the criterion.\nWhat the Framers thought of, there weren't steamboats, there weren't\nrailroads.\n\nThat's right.\n\nWe've said there was a general grant, and that Congress was\nfree to run with it in many respects.\n\nIn many respects, Mr. Chief Justice, but, as this Court has\nalso said, there are limits to what Congress can do under the Commerce\nClause.\n\nBut isn't --\n\nCan I ask you about one of the limits, just focusing on the\nCopyright Clause and the progress of science and useful arts? In your view, does\nthat -- is that limited to encouraging creativity by authors and inventors, or does\nit also include the distribution of materials that might not otherwise be\ndistributed, like old films and so forth? \n\nWe're happy to adopt a broader interpretation of what promote\nthe progress is about, within the general framework that the Framers established in\nlight of the English practice, which was a quid pro quo. The ability to facilitate\ndistribution -- \n\nSo that if the quid pro quo is that we can facilitate\ndistribution of some old film by an additional monopoly grant, you'd think that's\npermissible?\n\nSo long as the grant is conditioned upon the distribution. So\nlong as the grant --\n\nIn other words you could have -- right now, if Congress\ndecides to have a law, and this law is going to give copyrights in 1) the Bible, 2)\nShakespeare, 3) Ben Jonson, and the reason they do it is that they think that that\nwould lead publishers to produce those and distribute them, and they're right, they\nwill, okay? In your view, that's perfectly constitutional?\n\nNo, that's the view of the Government's, Justice Breyer. My\nview is --\n\nWell, I thought that was the question you were getting, and I\nthought you were saying -- I must have misunderstood. I thought you were saying that\nwas constitutional.\n\nNo. What we were saying is, if Congress wants to permit\nrestoration of films, for example, an issue that's been well briefed here, Congress\ncan say, if you restore the film, then the restoration gets a copyright so long as\nit satisfies originality as outlined in Feist, and it gets a copyright for a period\nof time. But this Court's opinion in Graham and in Feist made clear that it could\nnot extend copyrights to works in the public domain. The Government doesn't concede\nthat, but we stand on that as a way of understanding why this Court --\n\nSo your answer to Justice Stevens is no, they cannot give a\ncopyright purely for purposes of dissemination to publishers, is that right?\n\nNo. \n\nOh, all right. \n\nThey cannot give a copyright purely for purposes of\ndistribution to publishers. (\n\nThey would need to satisfy all of the implied limitations\nthat this Court has expressed in the context of this, the most carefully limited\nclause in Article I, section 8. It is one of the --\n\nMr. Lessig, the clause says, Congress shall, and suppose\nCongress decides in this expanded world of ours that it's going to make certain\nchanges and other changes from our treaty partners. Suppose it well, the Germans led\nthe fight for 70 years in the European Union, we'll go with that, but we're going\ndemand says,fair use. Now, why couldn't that fit within the promotion of\nknowledge?\n\nJustice Ginsburg, we have no quarrel with the objective of\nharmonization fitting within the \"promote the progress of science\" understanding\nsubject to constitutional limitations. If France adopted a rule that said you\ncouldn't grant copyrights to hate speech, we could not harmonize with that rule\nconsistent with our First Amendment and similarly, as Mary Beth Peters testified\nbefore Congress, ours is the only Constitution that has an express limitation on\nterms. That's got to mean something, and if it means that we are limited in our\nability to agree with the Europeans as they continually expand the term in light of\ntheir own vision of what copyright is about, then that's the meaning of a\nconstitutional restriction. This Court's interpretation of \"limited times\" could, of\ncourse, eviscerate that term of any meaning, but under the principle of enumeration\nas this Court has articulated it, this Court should interpret that clause in a way\nthat gives its terms effect in a simple way. Just as a limited addition print is not\na limited -- is not limited if each time a customer comes in a new print is printed,\nso, too, a limited term is not limited if each time copyright holders come to\nCongress they can extend the term.\n\nThat's right.\n\nThe analogy doesn't seem to work.\n\nThat's right. All that I'm suggesting is, here is a plain\nmeaning of the term that gives effect to the constitutional limit in a way that\nassures that, in fact, the limit is respected, contrary to the Government's\nargument, which, in effect, permits Congress the power perpetually to extend terms.\nIf I may reserve the remainder of my time. \n\nVery well, Mr. Lessig. General Olson, we'll hear from\nyou.\nORAL ARGUMENT OF THEODORE B. OLSON ON BEHALF OF THE RESPONDENT\n\nMr. Chief Justice, and may it please the Court: The\nquestions today, especially the initial questions, suggest one of the many\ninsurmountable obstacles to petitioners' petition in, position in this case. That is\nthat the first Congress explicitly gave copyright protection to the authors of any\nbooks already printed as well as explicitly the owners of existing copyrights.\nThereafter, in 1831, 1909, 1976, and 1998, and in numerous private copyright bills\nand temporary extensions of the copyright law and in repeated patent law revisions,\nCongress extended the terms of Federal copyright and patent protection of subsisting\nworks. As this Court explained 100 and some years ago in its Burrows-Giles opinion,\nsuch constructions are accorded very great weight and, as that Court went on to say,\nwhen consistent and unchallenged for over a century are almost conclusive that\nconsistent construction by Congress of its authority under the Copyright and Patent\nClause now has lasted from the 105th -- from the first through the 105th Congress.\nIt has been sustained by Justices of this Court and early decisions of this Court.\nIt is consistent with what the law of England was from the Statute of Anne --\n\nYes, but take one of the early extensions, just extending a --\nan already granted patent to an inventor for an extra 10 years. How can that be\nsquared with the language of the provision? Maybe Congress did it, but maybe it\nacted improperly when it did it.\n\nWell, the Congress -- \n\nAnd that's our question, really. \n\nWell, that -- it seems to me that there may be -- this is\n-- the clause itself is a very, very broad grant. It says the --\n\nDo you view it as entirely a grant, or do you think it also\ncontains limitations?\n\nWell, I think that to the extent that there may be\nlimitations, Justice Stevens, they are -- require considerable deference by this\nCourt to the judgment of Congress --\n\nWell, I understand that, but do you -- I'd be interested in\nknowing, do you think it does contain limitations?\n\nIt contains -- the clause itself contains limitations,\nlimited times, authors, exclusive rights and things of that nature. I don't think --\nand the petitioners expressly disclaim the assertion that any substantive\nlimitations in the \"Promote the- Clause. What the Framers were saying is, we want to\ngive Congress the authority to promote the progress of useful arts and sciences, and\n--\n\nHow did the example we just talked about, a patentee giving an\nextra 10 years on his -- how does that promote the progress of science?\n\nWell, it may provide additional incentives for the\npatentee to exploit and promote and disseminate that particular work. With respect\nto creative works like works of art, books and that sort of thing, it 20 patentee,\nthat there was a bargain in effect between the inventor and the Government that at a\ncertain period of time it would become part of the public domain. It seems to me\nit's inconsistent with that.\n\nI'm just concentrating on our and I'm wondering how that fits\ninto the notion\n\nIt isn't inconsistent, I submit, Justice Stevens, for the\nCongress to exercise its juris -- its responsibility under this broad grant of power\nto determine that there could be many ways in which the holder of an existing right\nmay benefit the public by continuing to have that right for an additional period of\ntime, the same reason that Congress -- same reasons that Congress had when it\ncreated the right in the first place. It's not just the right --\n\nNo, the reason for the right in the first place was to\nencourage invention.\n\nWell, but I -- we submit that specifically with respect to\nthe Copyright Clause, but I think it applies to the patent portion of the clause at\nall, it isn't just the invention, it isn't just the writing of the work -- and this\nrelates to the questions that were asked of my colleague a moment ago. It includes\nthe dissemination of the work, not necessarily --\n\nDissemination alone?\n\nNot necessarily the dissemination alone --\n\nWell, no, not -- don't say not necessarily. I'm -- for\npurposes of my thinking about it, I'd like to know, imagine we have just\ndissemination.\n\nThat something is already in the\n\nThat's correct. The only justification for the extension,\nthere is no other, is dissemination of a work that is already in existence.\n\nI would not want to rule that out, Justice Breyer, for the\nvery reason --\n\nWell, I want to say, do you think yes or no?\n\nWell, I think that it could very well be yes, for the\nreason that in the 1790 statute the Congress specifically was aware of -- that there\nwere State copyright laws which didn't last as long as the Federal statute. Several\nof the States hadn't finished enacting those copyright laws, and a couple of States\nhadn't enacted them at all.\n\nSo in your opinion, in my example, if you recall it --\n\nIt's --\n\n-- your answer would be, if Congress tomorrow wants to give a\ncopyright to a publisher solely for the purpose of reproducing and disseminating Ben\nJonson, Shakespeare, it can do it?\n\nIt may --\n\nI hate to say may --\n\nWell --\n\n-- because that really -- that's an important question.\n\nWell, because I don't think that a per -- I don't think\nthere is a per se rule that should apply here because this is a grant of Congress,\nto Congress to exercise its judgment as to what may be beneficial. There may be\nother constitutional provisions that come into play, or there may be other existing\n--\n\nAll right, let me explain to you why it's important to me. I\nhave a list. This is an economic statute. The harms that seem to be caused by it,\nthe extension, I've listed as follows, approximate numbers, made up, but magnitude\ncorrect. The existing copyright holders who survive, their copyright survives 70\nyears, who have already been paid, on the numbers that were given, about $24 billion\nor more, will receive an extra $6 billion. That, I take it, is a harm. Their works\nhave already been created. Harm number 2. The fact that people, for the 99 percent\nof the copyrights that have no commercial value after 70 years, have to find the\ncopyright holder to put them in databases. The cost of that, on my numbers in here,\nmade up, at least a billion dollars, or they can't find the people at all and get\npermission, an innumerable cost, un -- valuable cost to people who want to use it.\nThose are costs. On the plus side I see uniformity, dissemination, and -- now, you\ntell me.\n\nWell, I also see compliance with international competitive\nmarkets and the laws that are being adopted, and the incentives --\n\nUniformity. That's uniformity.\n\nWell, that's not just uniformity. It's providing incentive\nto people to publish here, as opposed to publish in Europe, where longer terms might\nbe available. There is an incentive to distribute existing works that may be\nnecessary. It's the consistency that Congress is promoting by saying to individuals,\nas they might have said when they enacted the Copyright Clause in the first place,\nwe will not only give you 14 years, but if we change our mind tomorrow, and think\nthat a better, a longer period is necessary, we're -- this is consistency, but it's\nalso a matter of fairness, and it's -- \n\nWhy -- on the last point, it's -- I've counted that as zero.\nThe reason I've counted it as zero is it seems to me that the added value, incentive\nvalue to produce between life plus 50, or life plus 70, is zero. It's carried out,\nas the economists do, to three decimal points, divide by 100 for the probability of\nyour ever having such a work, and you get virtually zero, no difference between this\nand a perpetual copyright.\n\nWell, I think that that's a very good illustration of why\nthe authority is granted to Congress, because if you are an 80-year-old writer, that\nmay make a considerable difference in terms of what you decide to do.\n\nHow could it?\n\nIt may -- because you may -- if you have no incentive, if\nyou know that go into the public domain sooner rather affect your judgment with\nrespect to --\n\nIn -- I --this is going to than later, it may\n\nIt might also publisher -- what the publisher pays for\nyour prospective work, Justice Breyer. We -- the Copyright Clause incentive provides\nincentives not just for -- not just to the creators, but to the disseminators, the\npublishers, the broadcasters, the film companies.\n\nSo you think, say, Verdi, Othello, Verdi, Othello, 80 years\nold, the prospect of an extra 20 years way down the pike would have made a\ndifference?\n\nWell, I think again that illustrates why the authority is\nvested in Congress to make these judgments rather than in courts to make these\naffect whether the judgments, because we're not talking about the effect on an\nindividual author, or an individual creator. What the Framers of the Constitution\nwere concerned about is a gross judgment with respect to what might generally\nprovide incentives to the population -- \n\nBut it is hard to understand how, if the overall purpose of\nthe Copyright Clause is to encourage creative work, how some retroactive extension\ncould possibly do that. I -- one wonders what was in the principle 13 difficult\nprinciple given to Congress and has been exercised so repeatedly out there that\nwould ever kick in?\n\nWell, that's a -- that is a question to say whether there\nis any limiting when such a broad grant of power, authority is that -- \n\nWell, if it's a limited term, as the Constitution says, is\nthere indeed any limit out there?\n\nWhat I submit -- well, first of all, even the petitioners\nacknowledge that, as far as prospective limits are concerned, that isn't a judgment\nthat this Court is being made to ask and, in fact, the petitioners acknowledge that\nit isn't a judgment that this Court should make, so the only point that the\npetitioners --\n\nWell, if Congress says we're going to grant this copyright\nindefinitely, forever --\n\nThat would seem --\n\n-- that violates the limited term, does it not?\n\nI acknowledge that. And anything that --\n\nIn Victorian England you could buy a box seat for 900 years.\nThere was serene complacency about their culture, and God bless them, but --\n\n-- I really think this is an important question and, as\nJustice O'Connor points out, if we have to ask what's the most plausible explanation\nfor this rule, to reward existing vested interest or to stimulate former new works,\nit seems to me that it's probably the former.\n\nWell -- \n\nI mean, we know that.\n\nIt is -- well, it -- let me say with respond -- in\nresponse to both of those questions, an unlimited time would violate the Copyright\nClause. Something that was the functional equivalent of an unlimited time would\nviolate the Copyright Clause, but the Framers specifically did not put in numbers.\nThey had the opportunity to do that. Thomas Jefferson suggested that a number should\nbe put in. We submit that it would be -- even -- since the petitioners don't suggest\nthat it's an appropriate function of this Court, certainly in this case, to pick a\nnumber, 133 years or something of that nature, but it is quite clear that Congress\nfrom the Statute of Anne, 1710, we have 300 years of history, of Congress thinking\nthat it continues to benefit the process, not just of the productivity, of the\ncreation of the work itself, but the dissemination of it to provide -- \n\nGeneral Olson, you say that the functional equivalent of an\nunlimited time would be a violation, but that's precisely the argument that's being\nmade by petitioners here, that a limited time which is extendable is the\nfunctionable, functional equivalent of an unlimited time, a limited time that 10\nyears from now can be extended, and then extended again, and extended again. Why --\ntheir argument is precisely that, a limited time doesn't mean anything unless it\nmeans, once you have established the limit for works that have been created under\nthat limit, that's the end.\n\nWell, the Framers had an opportunity to say immutable,\nunalterable, unamendable. They didn't use that. They used the phrase, limited term,\nwhich means then, meant then and means now, a certain specified --\n\nOkay, assuming --\n\n-- number of years under the 5 statute.\n\nWith the exception of a limitation which illustrates the\ndistinction between forever on the one hand and a definite number on the other, is\nthere any limitation in the clause? Does the promotion, does the preambular\nrecitation of promotion as such place a limit on it?\n\nI submit, Justice Souter, that there's no per se\nlimitation, that if there is, as Justice Scalia suggested, for -- if it is true that\nCongress,having specified 14 years or 28 years, decides that doesn't work very well\nbecause of the economies of other countries, the parade of constraints on artists in\nother countries, the reasons that we want things to be preserved or distributed, it\nshould be 2 more years, or 5 more years later -- \n\nYes, but that argument would apply to new copyrights, but to\nextension of already existing copyrights your argument doesn't apply.\n\nIt does apply, Justice Stevens, because --\n\nThe work has already been created.\n\nThe work has already been created, but the artists that\nare creating works day in and day out take into consideration the fact that Congress\nhas decided, there's an ease of administration --\n\nBut for them, they get the benefit of the longer term if you\ndon't apply it to an existing copyright. I mean, if you say you need 70 years\nbecause of changes in the economy to encourage works, you grant 70 for the future,\nbut why does that, making that apply to somebody provided him?\n\nWe're not just -- because we're not just talking about the author. \nIf we -- we're talking about --\n\nThe Constitution refers to the authors and the inventors, doesn't it? \nThey're certainly the prime actors in this scene, aren't they?\n\nYes, but all of the history of the development of these\nclauses suggests that -- and this Court has indicated in its decisions with respect\nto copyright, that the Framers were concerned and the Congress is legitimately\nconcerned not just in providing the spark of creativity, but to make sure that\nthat's distributed widely and available, and there may be many reasons why -- we're -- we --\n\nAnd that it gets into the public the expiration of the term.\nThat was an part of the bargain.\n\nYes, and what -- but the \ndefinition of the term was a responsibility vested in Congress, because it has the\npower -- the legislative history of the 1998 act itself suggests what was going on\nhere and suggests why the Framers gave this authority to Congress. There were\nnumerous hearings, there were testimony by the folks that represent the same\nposition as petitioners here as to why this shouldn't be done, why it should be that\nthis done. Congress weighed -- as this Court, the phrase Court used, I think it was\nin the Feist case,the delicate balance that was so difficult for Congress\nto--\n\nHow -- \n\nOkay, but you --\n\n-- what weighs in that balance, because to go back for one\nsecond, in practical, economic terms I gather the difference between a copyright\nthat lasts for 100 years, lasts for 1,000 years, lasts forever, is probably\nsomething less than 1,000 -- on $1,000 a penny. I mean, it's a penny on 1,000, or\nprobably a lot less than that, frankly. So I can not only not imagine a person whose\ndecision to write would be governed by such a thing, I cannot imagine a European who\nwould come to America to copyright his work for such a reason. Indeed, I wonder why\nthat European wouldn't come anyway, even if the term were 10 years, because if he\ndoesn't come, he's not going to get protection.\n\nWell, the --\n\nI mean, who are these people that are going to be moved by\nthat incentive?\n\nThe -- as we described in our brief, in pages 34 through\n36, I believe it is in our brief, that the concerns about the limitation on\nexploitation and the limitation of a copyright period in Europe is based upon the\ncountry of origin of the work and the shortest time available. So that there may be\ndifferences, and we describe that, but that illustrates, Justice Breyer, the\ndifference between 1 cents and 10 cents and $100 with respect to this particular\nauthor who's this particular age, or a particular author like Melville, whose works\nweren't -- weren't -- didn't -- or Schubert, whose works weren't properly\nappreciated or exploitable until many years after their death. All of these\nvariations are quintessentially legislative judgments. It would be very difficult\nfor the Framers to have eschewed deciding 14 years was a constitutional limitation,\nand for this Court to say 99 years is, and again, even the petitioners aren't asking\nthe Court to make that judgment. The petitioners are only saying that there shall be\na per se rule that the word \"limited times,\" means unchangeable times.\n\nBut there has to be a limit, as you acknowledge. Perpetual\ncopyright is not permitted. Who is the judge of -- within that line? Who is the\njudge of when it becomes unlimited? Is there, in other words, judicial review and,\nif there is, what standard would this Court apply to determine whether something\nshort of perpetual is still unlimited?\n\nWell, the issue before this Court, I hasten to say, as I\nsaid before, is only whether, once the Congress makes that judgment, it can ever\nchange it retrospectively. The issue before this Court is not whether, in the\nfuture, a certain length of time would be appropriate. That -- but the answer to\nthat, Justice Ginsburg, I submit, is found in the Necessary and Proper Clause, and\nthis Court's interpretation of the Necessary and Proper Clause as to the extent that\nthis Court would find or not find that the judgment made by Congress with respect to\nthe implementation of this very broad power is convenient or useful in terms of the\nachievement of the 2 goals.\n\nOkay, and is your argument that we find and hold against their\nretrospective because there is some, at least plausible basis should so argument, to\nsay that there can be a causal connection between the retrospective extension and\nsome benefit that can be traced to those particular works through the retrospective\nextension, like dissemination? Is that your argument?\n\nThat is among our arguments, Justice Souter.\n\nIs it also your argument that even if you cannot trace that\nkind, or at least plausibly argue that there could be that kind of a causal benefit,\nthat it would still be constitutional, because you should judge the extension simply\nas contributing to a general system, one feature of which is that from time to time\nthere may be retrospective extensions, and so long as that general system induces\nthe creation of works, or the dissemination of works, or the preservation of works,\nso long as the general system works, there is no review, no limitation on the\ntinkering that can be done, even retrospectively? Is that also your argument?\n\nI think that's a fair statement of an argument that we\nhave made and articulated in the brief --\n\nOkay.\n\n-- that unless there is a -- the Court is -- because the\ncircumstances change, that we are living in an era now where piracy is a significant\nproblem, there's question of administrative ease, of administering a system where\ncopyrights may be different for one set of authors, or different for another set of\nauthors, there's changes that are taking place internationally, so that what we're\nsaying is that not only could this Court conceive of reasons why Congress thought it\nwas accomplishing the objectives of this clause, but that there are numerous\nobjectives that are entirely legitimate in --\n\nDo you also argue that the Necessary and Proper Clause alone\nwill justify the retroactive extension simply as a matter of equity?\n\nYes.\n\nThat is, that the Copyright Clause justifies the extension for\nworks not yet created, but it would be enormously inequitable to have other authors\nwho put in the same amount of work get a lesser protection, so the Necessary and\nProper Clause now allows you to do the 24 retrospective? \n\nYes, Justice Scalia, and the examples that are -- \n\nCan I ask you, why is it enormously inequitable if they get\nexactly what they were entitled to at the time they made the work?\n\nThe implicit promise that --\n\nI mean, they have some right to expect that they will be --\nyou know, an additional grant, later on?\n\nI think that's not an unreasonable expectation at all,\nJustice Stevens, because that was the premise of the --\n\nThat is the way it's always been done. There hasn't been any\ncopyright extension that hasn't applied to subsisting work.\n\nThat's -- \n\nBut there was one -- Justice Breyer brought up Ben Jonson, so\n-- this case doesn't involve works that are already in the public domain.\n\nThat is correct. \n\nThis is subsisting copyrights.\n\nThat is correct. \n\nSo -- \n\nBut why wouldn't it? \n\nWhy? Why not? \n\nWhy wouldn't it? If the equity argument under the Necessary\nand Proper Clause justifies extension of the copyright for those whose copyright\nwill expire tomorrow if it's not extended, in order to put them on parity with those\ngetting copyrights for new works, why doesn't it apply to the copyright, the holder\nof the copyright that expired yesterday?\n\nYou could arguably -- you could conceivably make that\nargument, Justice Souter, but there is a bright line there. Something that has\nalready gone into the public domain, which other individuals or companies or\nentities may then have acquired an interest in, or rights to, or be involved in\ndisseminating --\n\nAnd if you don't -- \n\nThis is a rational --\n\nIf you don't draw the line there, then Ben Jonson certainly\ngets recopyrighted.\n\nWell, the difficulty --\n\nIf we're just looking for a bright line, the line that they\nsuggest between unexpired patents and copyrights and brand new ones is also just as\nbright.\n\nOh, I concede that it's a bright line, but it's a bright\nline that would have --\n\nExcept Congress chose this one and didn't choose the other\none. That's --\n\nCongress --\n\nBasically you're saying the presumption ought to be in the congressional judgment\nabout how to draw the line as well as in how long a line to draw.\n\nI agree, and this Court has -- we're not just talking about the \njudgment of the Congress of the -- the 105th \nCongress in 1998. This is the way the Statute of Anne was written. This is the\nway the State copyright laws were written when this country became a Nation. This is\nthe way the 1790 copyright statute, the number of -- \n\nWell, of course, the original statute was replacing a bunch of\nState statutes or State rules, partly common law, partly statutory, that -- they had\nkind of a mixed up legal situation, and there was an interest in having one uniform\nrule for the first time around.\n\nWell, there was an interest in having a uniform rule, and\nthat's precisely why the Framers created the Copyright Clause in the Constitution,\nbut there was copyright protection in some States, there wasn't copyright protection\nin other States, and what we know from the decision of this Court in the Wheaton\ndecision is that there was not a common law copyright in existence. This Court\nexplicitly held that. Now, the petitioners make this quid pro quo to draw the line\nas well as in how long a line\n\nI agree, and this Court has -- just talking about the\njudgment of the Congress the 105th Congress in 1998. This is the way the argument\nthat somehow implicitly the initial 1790 copyright statute was saying to people, you\nget a copyright if you exchange whatever existing rights you have. That simply does\nnot make any sense. There is no language, and it's a relatively late-discovered\nargument, because it sees its full -- \n\nI want you to finish that, but I want you to go back to the --\nI have one question on the equity principle. Are you -- I want you to finish.\n\nI wasn't finished, but I'm happy to come back.\n\nGo ahead. No, no, you finish\n\nWell, I was going to say no language whatsoever of\npreemption, abandonment, abrogation, or exchange in the 1790 copyright, but compare\n-- Copyright Act. But compare that to thefirst. there's Patent Act under the same\nclause, where there is that exchange there. The other thing, as this Court has said,\nthere is no implied abrogation of common law rights which would be a doctrine which\nwould be inconsistent with what the petitioner is arguing. Now --\n\nWhy -- I mean, I think you have a point on this equity\nprinciple. I wonder, is there any review there? That is, suppose you have a statute,\nas this one arguably is, where 99.9 percent, many billions of dollars of benefits,\nare going to the existing holders of copyright on grounds of equity, and the effect\nof the statute in eliciting new works is near zero. I mean, that would seem -- where\nthis equity idea is the camel and the production idea is the gnat, and is there any\n-- can we say something like that, or does Congress have total leeway in respect to\n--\n\nWell, it --\n\n-- who they want to give the money to, basically?\n\nJustice Breyer, it's conceivable that the Court might do\nthat if that situation was present, but it's not remotely the situation here. We\nhave the adoption of copyright terms which are consistent, generally speaking, with\ncopyright terms which exist in the European Union, our principal competitor, and in\nconnection with international treaties. We have a copyright term that's consistent\nwith the concept of the creator plus the creator's first generation heirs. We have a\ncopyright term, remember, which supersedes the earlier copyright provisions that\nwere added to the period between creation and publication, so that the limited\nnumber of years in the first, the 1790 and the 1831 statute were the number of years\nplus the relatively unlimited period of time between creation and publication, so we\ndon't have anything remotely like that in this situation. We have a process which,\nas you suggested, or one of the questions suggested, is -- may not have been the\npolicy that you as a Member of Congress would have supported. You might have made\nthe balance, that delicate balance that this Court has referred to, in another way,\nbut that is something that Congress, through its ability to gather facts and make\nbalances, is quintessentially capable of doing, and that is where the Framers vested\nthe responsibility, and what this statute does is to favor, if at all, the creator\nwith respect to the utilization of these rights, as opposed to the person who wishes\nto copy the creator. That's an entirely rational distinction for Congress to make.\nThank you.\n\nThank you, General Olson. Mr. Lessig, you have 3 minutes\nremaining.\nREBUTTAL ARGUMENT OF LAWRENCE LESSIG ON BEHALF OF THE PETITIONERS\n\nGeneral Olson has been perfectly clear in setting out the\nstructure of the Government's argument. It is that there is no effective limit on\nCongress's power under the Copyright Clause. Now, were this the first time this\nCourt had considered Congress's copyright authority, that might be a plausible\nargument, but the very first time this Court ever struck down a law of Congress as\nexceeding Article I, section 8 power was in the context of the Copyright Clause. We\nhave 125 years of history of this Court making sure that the limits, both express\nand implied, in the Copyright Clause, have some meaning. The Feist opinion very\nclearly sets out the implied limits, a per se limit for originality, for the reasons\nJustice Breyer was trying to get me to say. The Harper as well as Graham set out\nvery clear limits on the context of the ability to extend works in the public\ndomain. Those limits make no sense under the reasoning the Government has offered.\nThe Government's reasoning would make all of those opinions irrelevant and wrong.\nNow, we offer a simple way to make this clear, express limit make sense, and that is\nprecisely the understanding we suggest that existed in 1790. The only precedents\nthat existed in 1790 were precedents of setting a term, and then when parliament was\nasked in 1735, '37, and '39 to extend it, they rejected it, and as amicus historians\nsaid, they rejected it because, as a pamphleteer described it, that would be\neffectively a perpetual term. Now, this delicate balance that the Government\ninvokes, Justice Breyer, let me give you the numbers. The delicate balance is that,\nunder the most reasonable assumptions of copyright royalty income and under our\ninterest rate of 7 percent, as the amicus economists note at page 6, note 6 of their\nbrief, the current term gives authors 99.8 percent of the value of a perpetual term.\nNow, that might be a delicate balance, that they give the author 99.8 percent and\nthe public .2 percent, but in my mind, that's delicate in a very different sense of\nthat term. Thank you very much.\n\nThank you, Mr. Lessig. The case is\nsubmitted.\n(Whereupon, at 11:01 a.m., the case in the above-entitled matter was submitted.)\n\n\n", "mode": "spoken", "name": "Lessig-court-transcript", "class": "court-transcript"}
{"subclass": null, "text_id": "spoken/debate-transcript/2nd_Gore-Bush", "text": "\n\n\n\n\nDebate Transcript \nOctober 11, 2000\nThe Second Gore-Bush Presidential Debate \n\n Let's welcome the candidates, Governor Bush and Vice President Gore. Good evening, from Wake Chapel at Wake Forest University at Winston-Salem, North Carolina. I'm Jim Lehrer of the News Hour on PBS. Welcome to this second election 2000 debate between the Republican candidate for president, George W. Bush of Texas, and the Democratic candidate, Vice President Al Gore. These debates are sponsored by the Commission on Presidential Debates. The format and the rules are those negotiated by representatives of the two campaigns. Only the subjects tonight and the questions are mine. The format tonight is that of a conversation. The only prevailing rule is that no single response can ever, ever exceed two minutes. The prevailing rule for the audience here in the hall is as always, absolute quiet, please. Good evening, Governor Bush, Vice President Gore. The end of our 90 minutes last week in Boston, the total time each of you took was virtually the same. Let's see if we can do the same tonight, or come close. Governor Bush, the first question goes to you. One of you is about to be elected the leader of the single-most powerful nation in the world, economically, financially, militarily, diplomatically, you name it. Have you formed any guiding principles for exercising this enormous power?\n I have, I have. First question is what's in the best interests of the United States? What's in the best interests of our people? When it comes to foreign policy that will be my guiding question. Is it in our nation's interests? Peace in the Middle East is in our nation's interests. Having a hemisphere that is free for trade and peaceful is in our nation's interests. Strong relations in Europe is in our nation's interest. I've thought a lot about what it means to be the president. I also understand that an administration is not one person, but an administration is dedicated citizens who are called by the president to serve the country, to serve a cause greater than self, and so I've thought about an administration of people who represent all America, but people who understand my compassionate and conservative philosophy. I haven't started naming names except for one person, and that's Mr. Richard Cheney who I thought did a great job the other night. He's a vice presidential nominee who represents -- I think people got to see why I picked him. He's man of solid judgment and he's going to be a person to stand by my side. One of the things I've done in Texas is I've been able to put together a good team of people. I've been able to set clear goals. The goals ought to be an education system that leaves no child behind, Medicare for our seniors, a Social Security system that's safe and secure, foreign policy that's in our nation's interest, and a strong military, and then bring people together to achieve those goals. That's what a Chief Executive Officer does. So I've thought long and hard about the honor of being the President of the United States.\n Vice President Gore?\n Yes, Jim. I've thought a lot about that particular question, and I see our greatest national strength coming from what we stand for in the world. I see it as a question of values. It is a great tribute to our founders that 224 years later this nation is now looked to by the peoples on every other continent and the peoples from every part of this earth as a kind of model for what their future could be. And I don't think that's just the kind of exaggeration that we take pride in as Americans. It's really true, even the ones that sometimes shake their fists at us. As soon as they have a change that allows the people to speak freely, they're wanting to develop some kind of blueprint that will help them be like us more, freedom, free markets, political freedom. So I think first and foremost our power ought to be wielded to in ways that form a more perfect union. The power of example is America's greatest power in the world. And that means, for example, standing up for human rights. It means addressing the problems of injustice and inequity, along the lines of race and ethnicity here at home, because in all these other places around the world where they're having these terrible problems, when they feel hope, it is often because they see in us a reflection of their potential. So we've got to enforce our civil rights laws. We've got to deal with things like racial profiling. And we have to keep our military strong. We have the strongest military, and I'll do whatever is necessary, if I'm president, to make sure that it stays that way. But our real power comes, I think, from our values.\n Should the people of the world look at the United States, Governor, and say, should they fear us, should they welcome our involvement, should they see us as a friend, everybody in the world? How would you project us around the world, as president?\n Well, I think they ought to look at us as a country that understands freedom where it doesn't matter who you are or how you're raised or where you're from, that you can succeed. I don't think they'll look at us with envy. It really depends upon how our nation conducts itself in foreign policy. If we're an arrogant nation, they'll resent us. If we're a humble nation, but strong, they'll welcome us. And it's -- our nation stands alone right now in the world in terms of power, and that's why we have to be humble. And yet project strength in a way that promotes freedom. So I don't think they ought to look at us in any way other than what we are. We're a freedom-loving nation and if we're an arrogant nation they'll view us that way, but if we're a humble nation they'll respect us.\n A humble nation.\n I agree with that. I agree with that. I think that one of the problems that we have faced in the world is that we are so much more powerful than any single nation has been in relationship to the rest of the world than at any time in history, that I know about, anyway. That there is some resentment of U.S. power. So I think that the idea of humility is an important one. But I think that we also have to have a sense of mission in the world. We have to protect our capacity to push forward what America's all about. That means not only military strength and our values, it also means keeping our economy strong. You know, in the last, or two decades ago it was routine for leaders of foreign countries to come over here and say you guys have got to do something about these horrendous deficits because it's causing tremendous problems for the rest of the world, and we were lectured to all the time. The fact that we have the strongest economy in history today is not good enough. We need to do more. But the fact that it is so strong enables us to project the power for good that America can represent.\n Does that give us -- does our wealth, our good economy, our power, bring with it special obligations to the rest of the world?\n Yes, it does. Take, for example, Third World debt. I think we ought to be forgiving Third World debt under certain conditions. I think, for example, if we're convinced that a Third World country that's got a lot of debt would reform itself, that the money wouldn't go into the hands of a few but would go to help people, I think it makes sense for us to use our wealth in that way, or to trade debt for valuable rain forest lands, makes that much sense, yes. We do have an obligation, but we can't be all things to all people. We can help build coalitions but we can't put our troops all around the world. We can lend money but we have to do it wisely. We shouldn't be lending money to corrupt officials. So we have to be guarded in our generosity.\n Let's go through some of the specifics now. New question. Vice President Gore, the governor mentioned the Middle East. Here we're talking at this stage in the game about diplomatic power that we have. What do you think the United States should do right now to resolve that conflict over there?\n The first priority has to be on ending the violence, dampening down the tensions that have arisen there. We need to call upon Syria to release the three Israeli soldiers who have been captured. We need to insist that Arafat send out instructions to halt some of the provocative acts of violence that have been going on. I think that we also have to keep a weather eye toward Saddam Hussein because he is taking advantage of this situation to once again make threats, and he needs to understand that he's not only dealing with Israel, he is dealing -- he's dealing with us if he is making the kind of threats that he's talking about there. The use of diplomacy in this situation has already, well, it goes hour-by-hour and day-by-day now. It's a very tense situation there. But in the last 24 hours there has been some subsiding of the violence there. It's too much to hope that this is going to continue, but I do hope that it will continue. Our country has been very active with regular conversations with the leaders there. And we just have to take it day-to-day right now. But one thing I would say where diplomacy is concerned, Israel should feel absolutely secure about one thing. Our bonds with Israel are larger than agreements or disagreements on some details of diplomatic initiatives. They are historic, they are strong, and they are enduring. And our ability to serve as an honest broker is something that we need to shepherd.\n Governor?\n Well, I think during the campaign, particularly now during this difficult period, we ought to be speaking with one voice, and I appreciate the way the administration has worked hard to calm the tensions. Like the vice president, I call on Chairman Arafat to have his people pull back to make the peace. I think credibility is going to be very important in the future in the Middle East. I want everybody to know should I be the president Israel's going to be our friend. I'm going to stand by Israel. Secondly, that I think it's important to reach out to moderate Arab nations, like Jordan and Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. It's important to be friends with people when you don't need each other so that when you do there's a strong bond of friendship. And that's going to be particularly important in dealing not only with situations such as now occurring in Israel, but with Saddam Hussein. The coalition against Saddam has fallen apart or it's unraveling, let's put it that way. The sanctions are being violated. We don't know whether he's developing weapons of mass destruction. He better not be or there's going to be a consequence should I be the president. But it's important to have credibility and credibility is formed by being strong with your friends and resoluting your determination. One of the reasons why I think it's important for this nation to develop an anti-ballistic missile system that we can share with our allies in the Middle East if need be to keep the peace is to be able to say to the Saddam Husseins of the world or the Iranians, don't dare threaten our friends. It's also important to keep strong ties in the Middle East, credible ties, because of the energy crisis we're now in. After all, a lot of the energy is produced from the Middle East, and so I appreciate what the administration is doing. I hope to get a sense of should I be fortunate to be the president how my administration will react to the Middle East.\n So you don't believe, Vice President Gore, that we should take sides and resolve this right now? A lot of people pushing hey, the United States should declare itself and not be so neutral in this particular situation.\n Well, we stand with Israel, but we have maintained the ability to serve as an honest broker. And one of the reasons that's important is that Israel cannot have direct dialogue with some of the people on the other side of conflicts, especially during times of tension, unless that dialogue comes through us. And if we throw away that ability to serve as an honest broker, then we have thrown -- we will have thrown away a strategic asset that's important not only to us but also to Israel.\n You agree with that, Governor?\n I do. I do think this, though. When it comes to timetables it can't be the United States timetable as to how discussions take place. It's got to be a timetable that all parties can agree to, like the Palestinians and Israelis. Secondly, any lasting peace is going to have to be a peace that's good for both sides. And therefore, the term honest broker makes sense. This current administration's worked hard to keep the parties at the table. I will try to do the same thing. But it won't be on my timetable, it will be on the timetable that people are comfortable with in the Middle East.\n People watching here tonight are very interested in Middle East policy, and they are so interested they want to base their vote on differences between the two of you as president how you would handle Middle East policy. Is there any difference?\n I haven't heard a big difference in the last few exchanges.\n That's hard to tell. I think that, you know, I would hope to be able to convince people I could handle the Iraqi situation better.\n Saddam Hussein, you mean, get him out of there?\n I would like to, of course, and I presume this administration would as well. We don't know -- there are no inspectors now in Iraq, the coalition that was in place isn't as strong as it used to be. He is a danger. We don't want him fishing in troubled waters in the Middle East. And it's going to be hard, it's going to be important to rebuild that coalition to keep the pressure on him.\n You feel that is a failure of the Clinton administration?\n I do.\n Well, when I got to be a part of the current administration, it was right after -- I was one of the few members of my political party to support former President Bush in the Persian Gulf War resolution, and at the end of that war, for whatever reason, it was not finished in a way that removed Saddam Hussein from power. I know there are all kinds of circumstances and explanations. But the fact is that that's the situation that was left when I got there. And we have maintained the sanctions. Now I want to go further. I want to give robust support to the groups that are trying to overthrow Saddam Hussein, and I know there are allegations that they're too weak to do it, but that's what they said about the forces that were opposing Milosevic in Serbia, and you know, the policy of enforcing sanctions against Serbia has just resulted in a spectacular victory for democracy just in the past week, and it seems to me that having taken so long to see the sanctions work there, building upon the policy of containment that was successful over a much longer period of time against the former Soviet Union in the communist block, seems a little early to declare that we should give up on the sanctions. I know the governor's not necessarily saying that but, you know, all of these flights that have come in, all of them have been in accordance with the sanctions regime, I'm told, except for three where they notified, and they're trying to break out of the box, there's no question about it. I don't think they should be allowed to.\n Did he state your position correctly, you're not calling for eliminating the sanctions, are you?\n No, of course not, absolutely not, I want them to be tougher.\n Let's go on to Milosevic and Yugoslavia, and it falls under the area of our military power. Governor, new question. Should the fall of Milosevic be seen as a triumph for U.S. military intervention?\n I think it's a triumph. I thought the president made the right decision in joining NATO and bombing Serbia. I supported them when they did so. I called upon the Congress not to hamstring the administration, and in terms of forcing troop withdrawals on a timetable that wasn't necessarily in our best interest or fit our nation's strategy, and so I think it's good public policy, I think it worked, and I'm pleased I took -- made the decision I made. I'm pleased the president made the decision he made. Because freedom to go in that part of the world, and where there's a lot of work left to be done, however.\n But you think it would not have happened -- do you think that Milosevic would not have fallen if the United States and NATO had not intervened militarily? Is this a legitimate use of our military power?\n Yes, I think it is. Absolutely. I don't think he would have fallen had we not used the force. And I know there are some in our party that disagree with that sentiment. I supported the president. I thought he made the right decision to do so. I didn't think he necessarily made the right decision to take land troops off the table right before we committed ourselves offensively, but nevertheless, it worked. The administration deserves credit for having made it work. It is important for NATO to have it work. It's important for NATO to be strong and confident and to help keep the peace in Europe. And one of the reasons I felt so strongly that the United States needed to participate was because of our relations with NATO, and NATO is going to be an important part of keeping the peace in the future. Now, there's more work to do. Remains to be seen, however, whether or not there's going to be a political settlement in Kosovo, and I certainly hope there is one. Also on record as saying at some point in time I hope our European friends become the peacekeepers in Bosnia and in the Balkans. I hope that they put the troops on the ground so that we can withdraw our troops and focus our military on fighting and winning war.\n Well, I've been kind of a hard-liner on this issue for more than eight years. When I was in the senate before I became vice president I was pushing for stronger action against Milosevic. He caused the death of so many people. He was the last communist party boss there and then he became a dictator that by some other label he was still essentially a communist dictator. And unfortunately now he is trying to reassert himself in Serbian politics. Already just today the members of his political party said that they were going to ignore the orders of the new president of Serbia, and that they question his legitimacy, and he's still going to try to be actively involved. He is an indicted war criminal. He should be held accountable. Now, I did want to pick up on one of the statements earlier, and maybe I have heard, maybe I have heard the previous statements wrong, Governor. In some of the discussions we've had about when it's appropriate for the U.S. to use force around the world, at times the standards that you've laid down have given me the impression that if it's something like a genocide taking place or what they called ethnic cleansing in Bosnia, that that alone would not be, that that wouldn't be the kind of situation that would cause you to think that the U.S. ought to get involved with troops. Now, have to be other factors involved for me to want to be involved. But by itself, that to me can bring into play a fundamental American strategic interest because I think it's based on our values. Now, have I got that wrong?\n Trying to figure out who the questioner was.\n If I think it's in our nation's strategic interest I'll commit troops. I thought it was in our strategic interests to keep Milosevic in check because of our relations in NATO, and that's why I took the position I took. I think it's important for NATO to be strong and confident. I felt like unchecked Milosevic would harm NATO, and so it depends on the situation, Mr. Vice President.\n Well, let's stay on the subject for a moment. New question related to this. I figured this out; in the last 20 years there have been eight major actions that involved the introduction of U.S. ground, air or naval forces. Let me name them. Lebanon, Grenada, Panama, the Persian Gulf, Somalia, Bosnia, Haiti, Kosovo. If you had been president for any of those interventions, would any of those interventions not have happened?\n Can you run through the list again?\n Sure. Lebanon.\n I thought that was a mistake.\n Grenada.\n I supported that.\n Panama.\n I supported that.\n Persian Gulf.\n Yes, I voted for it, supported it.\n Somalia.\n Of course, and that again -- no, I think that that was ill-considered. I did support it at the time. It was in the previous administration, in the Bush-Quayle administration, and I think in retrospect the lessons there are ones that we should take very, very seriously.\n Bosnia.\n Oh, yes.\n Haiti.\n Yes.\n And then Kosovo.\n Yes.\n We talked about that. Want me to do it with you? Lebanon.\n Make a couple comments.\n Sure, absolutely, sure. Somalia.\n Started off as a humanitarian mission and it changed into a nation-building mission, and that's where the mission went wrong. The mission was changed. And as a result, our nation paid a price. And so I don't think our troops ought to be used for what's called nation-building. I think our troops ought to be used to fight and win war. I think our troops ought to be used to help overthrow the dictator when it's in our best interests. But in this case it was a nation-building exercise, and same with Haiti. I wouldn't have supported either.\n What about Lebanon?\n Yes.\n Grenada.\n Yes.\n Panama?\n Yes. Some of them I've got a conflict of interest on, if you know what I mean.\n I do, I do. The Persian Gulf, obviously. And Bosnia. And you have already talked about Kosovo. But the reverse side of the question, Governor, that Vice President Gore mentioned, 600,000 people died in Rwanda in 1994. There was no U.S. intervention, no intervention from the outside world. Was that a mistake not to intervene?\n I think the administration did the right thing in that case. I do. It was a horrible situation, no one liked to see it on our TV screens, but it's a case where we need to make sure we have an early warning system in place in places where there could be ethnic cleansing and genocide the way we saw it there in Rwanda. And that's a case where we need to use our influence to have countries in Africa come together and help deal with the situation. The administration, seem like we're having a great love for us tonight, but the administration made the right decision on training Nigerian troops for situations just such as this in Rwanda, and so I thought they made the right decision not to send U.S. troops into Rwanda.\n Do you have any second thoughts on that, based on what you said a moment ago about genocide?\n I'd like to come back to the question of nation building, but let me address the question directly, first. Fine. We did, actually, send troops into Rwanda to help with the humanitarian relief measures. My wife Tipper, who is here, actually went on a military plane with General Sholicatchvieli on one of those flights. But I think in retrospect we were too late getting in there. We could have saved more lives if we had acted earlier. But I do not think that it was an example of a conflict where we should have put our troops in to try to separate the parties for this reason, Jim. One of the criteria that I think is important in deciding when and if we should ever get involved around the world is whether or not our national security interest is involved, if we can really make the difference with military forces. We tried everything else. If we have allies in the Balkans we have allies, NATO, ready, willing and able to go and carry a big part of the burden. In Africa we did not. Now, we have tried -- our countries tried to create an Africa crisis response team there, and we've met some resistance. We have had some luck with Nigeria, but in Sierra Leon, and now that Nigeria has become a democracy, and we hope it stays that way, then maybe we can build on that. But because we had no allies and because it was very unclear that we could actually accomplish what we would want to accomplish about putting military forces there, I think it was the right thing not to jump in, as heartbreaking as it was, but I think we should have come in much quicker with the humanitarian mission.\n So what would you say, Governor, that somebody would say hey wait a minute, why not Africa, I mean why the Middle East, why the Balkans, but not Africa, when 600,000 people's lives are at risk?\n Well, I understand, and Africa is important. And we've got to do a lot of work in Africa to promote democracy and trade, and there are some -- Vice President mentioned Nigeria is a fledgling democracy. We have to work with Nigeria. That's an important continent. But there's got to be priorities, and Middle East is a priority for a lot of reasons, as is Europe and the Far East, our own hemisphere. And those are my four top priorities should I be the president, not to say we won't be engaged nor work hard to get other nations to come together to prevent atrocity. I thought the best example of a way to handle the situation was East Timor when we provided logistical support to the Australians, support that only we can provide. I thought that was a good model. But we can't be all things to all people in the world, Jim. And I think that's where maybe the vice president and I begin to have some differences. I'm worried about overcommitting our military around the world. I want to be judicious in its use. You mentioned Haiti. I wouldn't have sent troops to Haiti. I didn't think it was a mission worthwhile. It was a nation building mission, and it was not very successful. It cost us billions, a couple billions of dollars, and I'm not so sure democracy is any better off in Haiti than it was before.\n Vice President Gore, do you agree with the governor's views on nation building, the use of military, our military, for nation building as he described and defined it?\n I don't think we agree on that. I would certainly also be judicious in evaluating any potential use of American troops overseas. I think we have to be very reticent about that. But look, Jim, the world is changing so rapidly. The way I see it, the world is getting much closer together. Like it or not, we are now -- the United States is now the natural leader of the world. All these other countries are looking to us. Now, just because we cannot be involved everywhere, and shouldn't be, doesn't mean that we should shy away from going in anywhere. Now, both of us are kind of, I guess, stating the other's position in a maximalist extreme way, but I think there is a difference here. This idea of nation building is kind of a pejorative phrase, but think about the great conflict of the past century, World War II. During the years between World War I and World War II, a great lesson was learned by our military leaders and the people of the United States. The lesson was that in the aftermath of World War I, we kind of turned our backs and left them to their own devices and they brewed up a lot of trouble that quickly became World War II. And acting upon that lesson in the aftermath of our great victory in World War II, we laid down the Marshall Plan, President Truman did. We got intimately involved in building NATO and other structures there. We still have lots of troops in Europe. And what did we do in the late '40's and '50's and '60's? We were nation building. And it was economic. But it was also military. And the confidence that those countries recovering from the wounds of war had by having troops there. We had civil administrators come in to set up their ways of building their towns back.\n You said in the Boston debate, Governor, on this issue of nation building, that the United States military is overextended now. Where is it overextended? Where are there U.S. military that you would bring home if you become president?\n First let me just say one comment about what the vice president said. I think one of the lessons in between World War I and World War II is we let our military atrophy. And we can't do that. We've got to rebuild our military. But one of the problems we have in the military is we're in a lot of places around the world. And I mentioned one, and that's the Balkans. I would very much like to get our troops out of there. I recognize we can't do it now, nor do I advocate an immediate withdrawal. That would be an abrogation of our agreement with NATO. No one is suggesting that. But I think it ought to be one of our priorities to work with our European friends to convince them to put troops on the ground. And there is an example. Haiti is another example. Now there are some places where I think -- you know, I've supported the administration in Columbia. I think it's important for us to be training Columbians in that part of the world. The hemisphere is in our interest to have a peaceful Columbia. But --\n The use of the military, there -- some people are now suggesting that if you don't want to use the military to maintain the peace, to do the civil thing, is it time to consider a civil force of some kind that comes in after the military that builds nations or all of that? Is that on your radar screen?\n I don't think so. I think what we need to do is convince people who live in the lands they live in to build the nations. Maybe I'm missing something here. I mean, we're going to have kind of a nation building core from America? Absolutely not. Our military is meant to fight and win war. That's what it's meant to do. And when it gets overextended, morale drops. I strongly believe we need to have a military presence in the peninsula, not only to keep the peace in the peninsula, but to keep regional stability. And I strongly believe we need to keep a presence in NATO, but I'm going to be judicious as to how to use the military. It needs to be in our vital interest, the mission needs to be clear, and the extra strategy obvious.\n I don't disagree with that. I certainly don't disagree that we ought to get our troops home from places like the Balkans as soon as we can, as soon as the mission is complete. That's what we did in Haiti. There are no more than a handful of American military personnel in Haiti now. And Haitians have their problems, but we gave them a chance to restore democracy. That's really about all we can do. But if you have a situation like that right in our backyard with chaos about to break out and flotillas forming to come across the water, and all kinds of violence there, right in one of our neighboring countries there, then I think that we did the right thing there. And as for this idea of nation building, the phrase sounds grandiose. And, you know, we can't be -- we can't allow ourselves to get overextended. I certainly agree with that. And that's why I've supported building up our capacity. I've devoted in the budget I've proposed, as I said last week, more than twice as much as the governor has proposed. I think that it's in better shape now than he generally does. We've had some disagreements about that. He said that two divisions would have to report not ready for duty, and that's not what the joint chiefs say. But there's no doubt that we have to continue building up readiness and military strength. And we have to also be very cautious in the way we use our military.\n In the non-military area of influencing events around the world, the financial and economic are, the World Bank President Wilfinson said recently, Governor, that U.S. contributions to overseas development assistance is lower now almost than it has ever been. Is that a problem for you? Do you think -- what is your -- what is your idea about what the United States' obligations are? I'm talking about financial assistance and that sort of thing to other countries, the poor countries.\n Well, I mentioned Third World debt.\n Sure.\n That's a place where we can use our generosity to influence in a positive way, influence nations. I believe we ought to have foreign aid, but I don't think we ought to just have foreign aid for the sake of foreign aid. I think foreign aid needs to be used to encourage markets and reform. I think a lot of times we just spend aid and say we feel better about it and it ends up being spent the wrong way, and there's some pretty egregious examples recently. One being Russia, where we had IMF loans that ended up in the pockets of a lot of powerful people and didn't help the nation. I think the IMF has got a role in the world, but I don't want to see the IMF out there as a way to say to world bankers, if you make a bad loan, we'll bail you out. It needs to be available for emergency situations. I thought the President did the right thing with Mexico and was very strongly supportive of the administration in Mexico. But I don't think the IMF ought to be a stop loss for people who ought to be able to evaluate risks themselves. So I'll look at every place where we're investing money. I just want to make sure the return is good.\n Do you think we're meeting our obligations properly?\n No, I would make some changes. I think there need to be reforms in the IMF. I've generally supported it, but I've seen them make some calls that I thought were highly questionable. And I think that there's a general agreement in many parts of the world now that there ought to be changes in the IMF. The World Bank I think is generally doing a better job, but I think one of the big issues here that doesn't get nearly enough attention is the issue of corruption. The governor mentioned it earlier. I've worked on this issue. It's an enormous problem and corruption in official agencies, like militaries and police departments around the world, customs officials, that's one of the worst forms of it. And we have got to again lead by example and help these other countries that are trying to straighten out their situations find the tools in order to do it. I just think, Jim, that this is an absolutely unique period in world history. The world has come together, as I said, they're looking to us. And we have a fundamental choice to make. Are we going to step up to the plate as a nation the way we did after World War II, the way that generation of heroes said okay, the United States is going to be the leader. And the world benefitted tremendously from the courage that they showed in those post-war years. I think that in the aftermath of the Cold War, it's time for us to do something very similar, to step up to the plate, to provide the leadership on the environment, leadership to make sure the world economy keeps moving in the right direction. Again, that means not running big deficits here and not squandering our surplus. It means having intelligent decisions that keep our prosperity going and shepherds that economic strength so that we can provide that leadership role.\n Let me comment on that. I'm not so sure the role of the United States is to go around the world and say this is the way it's got to be. We can help. And maybe it's just our difference in government, the way we view government. I want to empower the people. I want to help people help themselves, not have government tell people what to do. I just don't think it's the role of the United States to walk into a country and say, we do it this way, so should you. I think we can help. I know we've got to encourage democracy in the marketplaces. But take Russia, for example. We went into Russia, we said here is some IMF money, and it ended up in Viktor Chemomyrdin's pocket, and others, and yet we played like there was reform. The only people that are going to reform Russia are Russia. They're going to have to make the decision themselves. Mr. Putin is going to have to make the decision as to whether or not he wants to adhere to rule of law and normal accounting practices so that if countries and/or entities invest capital, there's a reasonable rate of return, a way to get the money out of the economy. But Russia has to make the decision. We can work with them on security matters, for example, but it's their call to make. So I'm not exactly sure where the vice president is coming from, but I think one way for us to end up being viewed as the ugly American is for us to go around the world saying, we do it this way, so should you. Now, we trust freedom. We know freedom is a powerful, powerful, powerful force, much bigger than the United States of America, as we saw recently in the Balkans. But maybe I misunderstand where you're coming from, Mr. Vice President, but I think the United States must be humble and must be proud and confident of our values, but humble in how we treat nations that are figuring out how to chart their own course.\n Lets move on. No, let's move on.\n Far be it from me to suggest otherwise. \n First, a couple of follow-ups from the vice presidential debate last week. Vice President Gore, would you support or sign, as president, a federal law banning racial profiling by police and other authorities at all levels of government?\n Yes, I would. The only thing an executive order can accomplish is to ban it in federal law enforcement agencies, but I would also support a law in the Congress that would have the effect of doing the same thing. I just -- I think that racial profiling is a serious problem. I remember when the stories first came out about the stops in New Jersey by the highway patrol there. And I know it's been going on a long time. In some ways this is just a new label for something that has been going on for years. But I have to confess that it was the first time that I really focused on it in a new way. And I was surprised at the extent of it. And I think we've now got so many examples around the country that we really have to find ways to end this. Imagine what it -- what it is like for someone to be singled out unfairly, unjustly, and feel the unfair force of law simply because of race or ethnicity. Now, that runs counter to what the United States of America is all about at our core. And it's not an easy problem to solve. But if I am entrusted with the presidency, it will be the first Civil Rights Act of the 21st century.\n Yeah, I can't imagine what it would be like to be singled out because of race and stopped and harassed. That's just flat wrong, and that's not what America is all about. And so we ought to do everything we can to end racial profiling. One of my concerns, though, is I don't want to federalize the local police forces. I want to -- obviously in the egregious cases we need to enforce civil rights law, but we need to make sure that internal affairs decisions at the local level do their job and be given a chance to do their job. I believe in local control of governments, and obviously if they don't there needs to be a consequence at the federal level. But it's very important that we not overstep our bounds and I think most people -- most police officers are good, dedicated, honorable citizens who are doing their job, putting their lives at risk who aren't bigoted or aren't prejudiced. I don't think they ought to be held guilty. But I do think we need to find out where racial profiling occurs and do something about it and say to the local folks, get it done. And if you can't, there will be a federal consequence.\n And that could be a federal law?\n Yeah.\n And you would agree?\n I would agree. And I also agree that most police officers, of course, are doing a good job and hate this practice also. I talked to an African-American police officer in Springfield, Massachusetts not long ago who raised this question and said that in his opinion one of the biggest solutions is in the training. And not only the training in police procedures, but human relations. And I think that racial profiling is part of a larger issue of how we deal with race in America. And as for singling people out because of race, you know, James Byrd was singled out because of his race in Texas. And other Americans have been singled out because of their race or ethnicity. And that's why I think we can embody our values by passing a hate crimes law. I think these crimes are different. I think they're different because they're based on prejudice and hatred, which gives rise to crimes that have not just a single victim, but they're intended to stigmatize and dehumanize a whole group of people.\n You have a different view of that.\n No, I don't, really.\n On hate crimes laws?\n No. We've got one in Texas. And guess what? The three men who murdered James Byrd, guess what's going to happen to them? They're going to be put to death. A jury found them guilty. It's going to be hard to punish them any worse after they get put to death. And it's the right cause. It's the right decision. Secondly, there is other forms of racial profiling that goes on in America. Arab-Americans are racially profiled in what is called secret evidence. People are stopped, and we have to do something about that. My friend, Senator Spencer Abraham of Michigan, is pushing a law to make sure that Arab-Americans are treated with respect. So racial profiling isn't just an issue at local police forces. It's an issue throughout our society. And as we become a diverse society, we're going to have to deal with it more and more. I believe, though -- I believe, as sure as I'm sitting here, that most Americans really care. They're tolerant people. They're good, tolerant people. It's the very few that create most of the crises, and we just have to find them and deal with them.\n What -- if you become president, Governor, are there other areas, racial problem areas, that you would deal with as president involving discrimination? Like you said, Arab-Americans, but also Hispanics, Asians, as well as Blacks in this country.\n Let me tell you where the biggest discrimination comes. In public education when we just move children through the schools. My friend, Phyllis Hunter, is here. She had one of the greatest lines of all lines. She said, reading is the new civil right. She's right. And to make sure our society is as hopeful as it possibly can be, every single child in America must be educated. I mean every child. It starts with making sure every child learns to read. K-2 diagnostic testing so we know whether or not there's a deficiency. Curriculum that works and phonics needs to be an integral part of our reading curriculum. Intensive reading laboratories, teacher retraining. I mean, there needs to be a wholesale effort against racial profiling, which is illiterate children. We can do better in our public schools. We can close an achievement gap, and it starts with making sure we have strong accountability, Jim. One of the cornerstones of reform, and good reform, is to measure. Because when you measure you can ask the question, do they know? Is anybody being profiled? Is anybody being discriminated against? It becomes a tool, a corrective tool. And I believe the federal government must say that if you receive any money, any money from the federal government for disadvantaged children, for example, you must show us whether or not the children are learning. And if they are, fine. And if they're not, there has to be a consequence. And so to make sure we end up getting rid of basic structural prejudice is education. There is nothing more prejudiced than not educating a child.\n Vice President Gore, what would be on your racial discrimination elimination list as president?\n Well, I think we need tough enforcement of the civil rights laws. I think we still need affirmative action. I would pass a hate crimes law, as I said, and I guess I had misunderstood the governor's previous position. The Byrd family may have a misunderstanding of it in Texas also. But I would like to shift, if I could, to the big issue of education.\n Hold on one second. What is the misunderstanding? Let's clear this up.\n Well, I had thought that there was a controversy at the end of the legislative session where the hate crimes law in Texas was -- failed, and that the Byrd family, among others, asked you to support it, Governor, and it died in committee for lack of support. Am I wrong about that?\n Well, you don't realize we have a hate crimes statute? We do. GORE: I'm talking about the one that was proposed to deal --\n No -- well, what the Vice President must not understand is we've got a hate crimes bill in Texas. And secondly, the people that murdered Mr. Byrd got the ultimate punishment. The death penalty.\n They were prosecuted under the murder laws, were they not, in Texas?\n In this case when you murder somebody it's hate, Jim. The crime is hate. And they got the ultimate punishment. I'm not exactly sure how you enhance the penalty any more than the death penalty. We happen to have a statute on the books that's a hate crimes statute in Texas.\n May I respond?\n Sure.\n I don't want to jump in. I may have been misled by all the news reports about this matter, because the law that was proposed in Texas that had the support of the Byrd family and a whole lot of people in Texas did, in fact, die in committee. There may be some other statute that was already on the books, but certainly the advocates of the hate crimes law felt that a tough new law was needed. And it's important, Jim, not only -- not just because of Texas, but because this mirrors the national controversy. There is pending now in the Congress a national hate crimes law because of James Byrd, because of Matthew Shepard, who was crucified on a split rail fence by bigots, and because of others. And that law has died in committee also because of the same kind of opposition.\n And you would support that bill.\n Absolutely.\n Would you support a national hate crimes law?\n I would support the Orrin Hatch version of it, not the Senator Kennedy version. But let me say to you, Mr. Vice President, we're happy with our laws on our books. That bill did -- there was another bill that did die in committee. But I want to repeat, if you have a state that fully supports the law like we do in Texas, we're going to go after all crime. And we're going to make sure people get punished for the crime. And in this case we can't enhance the penalty any more than putting those three thugs to deaths. And that's what's gonna happen in the State of Texas.\n New subject, new question. Another vice presidential debate follow-up. Governor, both Senator Lieberman and Secretary Cheney said they were sympathetically rethinking their views on same sex relationships. What's your position on that?\n I'm not for gay marriage. I think marriage is a sacred institution between a man and a woman. And I appreciated the way the administration signed the Defense of Marriage Act. I presume the Vice President supported it when the President signed that bill and supports it now. But I think marriage is a sacred institution. I'm going to be respectful for people who may disagree with me. I've had a record of doing so in the State of Texas. I've been a person that had been called a uniter, not a divider, because I accept other people's points of view. But I feel strongly that marriage should be between a man and a woman.\n Vice President Gore?\n I agree with that, and I did support that law. But I think that we should find a way to allow some kind of civic unions, and I basically agree with Dick Cheney and Joe Lieberman. And I think the three of us have one view and the Governor has another view.\n Is that right?\n I'm not sure what kind of view he's describing to me. I can just tell you, I'm a person who respects other people. I respect their -- I respect -- on the one hand he says he agrees with me and then he says he doesn't. I'm not sure where he's coming from. But I will be a tolerant person. I've been a tolerant person all my life. I just happen to believe strongly that marriage is between a man and a woman.\n Do you believe in general terms that gays and lesbians should have the same rights as other Americans?\n Yes. I don't think they ought to have special rights, but I think they ought to have the same rights.\n Well, there's a law pending called the Employment Non-Discrimination Act. I strongly support it. What it says is that gays and lesbians can't be fired from their job because they're gay or lesbian. And it would be a federal law preventing that. Now, I wonder if the -- it's been blocked by the opponents in the majority in the Congress. I wonder if the Governor who lend his support to that law.\n Governor?\n The question --\n Well, but it's a logical response.\n Well, I have no idea. I mean, he can throw out all kinds -- I don't know the particulars of this law. I will tell you I'm the kind of person, I don't hire or fire somebody based upon their sexual orientation. As a matter of fact, I would like to take the issue a little further. I don't really think it's any of my -- you know, any of my concerns what -- how you conduct your sex life. And I think that's a private matter. And I think that's the way it ought to be. But I'm going to be respectful for people, I'll tolerate people, and I support equal rights but not special rights for people.\n Special rights, how does that affect gays and lesbians?\n Well, it would be if they're given special protective status. That doesn't mean we shouldn't fully enforce laws and fully protect people and fully honor people, which I will do as the President of the United States.\n New subject, new question, Vice President Gore. How do you see the connection between controlling gun sales in this country and the incidence of death by accidental or intentional use of guns?\n Jim, I hope that we can come back to the subject of education because the governor made an extensive statement on it and I have a very different view than the one he expressed. But that having been said, I believe that -- well, first of all, let me say that the governor and I agree on some things where this subject is concerned. I will not do anything to affect the rights of hunters or sportsmen. I think that homeowners have to be respected and their right to have a gun if they wish to. The problem I see is that there are too many guns getting into the hands of children, and criminals, and people who, for whatever reason, some kind of history of stalking or domestic abuse really should not be able to get guns. I think these assault weapons are a problem. So I favor closing the gun show loophole. In fact, I cast the tie-breaking vote to close it, but then the majority in the House of Representatives went the other way. That's still pending. If we could get agreement on that, maybe they could pass that in the final days of this Congress. I think we ought to restore the three-day waiting period under the Brady Law. I think we should toughen the enforcement of gun laws so that the ones that are already on the books can be enforced much more effectively. Some of the restrictions that have been placed by the Congress in the last couple of years. I think -- in the last few years I think have been unfortunate. I think that we ought to make all schools gun free. Have a gun-free zone around every school in this country. I think that measures like these are important. Child safety trigger locks on a mandatory basis, and others.\n Governor?\n Well, it starts with enforcing law. When you say loud and clear to somebody if you're going to carry a gun illegally, we're going to arrest you. If you're going to sell a gun illegally, you need to be arrested. If you commit a crime with a gun, there needs to be absolute certainty in the law. And that means that the local law enforcement officials need help at the federal level. Programs like Project Exile where the federal government intensifies arresting people who illegally use guns. And we haven't done a very good job of that at the federal level recently. And I'm going to make it a priority. Secondly, I don't think we ought to be selling guns to people who shouldn't have them. That's why I support instant background checks at gun shows. One of the reasons we have an instant background check is so that we instantly know whether or not somebody should have a gun or not. In Texas I tried to do something innovative. There's a lot of talk about trigger locks being on guns sold in the future. I support that. But I said if you want a trigger lock to make your gun safe, come and get one for free. So we're distributing in our State of Texas for free. I think we ought to raise the age at which a juvenile can carry a handgun from 18 to 21. I disagree with the vice president on this issue. He is for registration of guns. I think the only people that are going to show up to register or get a license -- I guess licensing like a driver's license for a gun, the only people that are going to show up are law-abiding citizens. The criminal is not going to show up and say hey, give me my I.D. card. It's the law-abiding citizens who will do that. An I don't think that is going to be an effective tool to make the -- keep our society safe.\n All right. So on guns, somebody wants to cast a vote based on your differences, where are the differences?\n Well, I'm not for registration. I am for licensing by states of new handgun purchases.\n What's that mean?\n A photo license I.D. like a driver's license for new handguns and, you know, the Los Angeles --\n Excuse me, you would have to get the license -- a photo I.D. to go in and before you could buy the gun?\n Correct.\n All right. Who would issue the --\n The state. The state. I think states should do that for new handguns, because too many criminals are getting guns. There was a recent investigation of the number in Texas who got -- who were given concealed weapons permits in spite of the fact that they had records. And the \"Los Angeles Times\" spent a lot of ink going into that. But I am not for doing anything that would affect hunters or sportsmen, rifles, shotguns, existing handguns. I do think that sensible gun safety measures are warranted now. Look, this is the year -- this is in the aftermath of Columbine, and Paducah, and all the places in our country where the nation has been shocked by these weapons in the hands of the wrong people. The woman who bought the guns for the two boys who did that killing at Columbine said that if she had had to give her name and fill out a form there, she would not have bought those guns. That conceivably could have prevented that tragedy.\n Back to the question about the differences on gun control. What are they, Governor, from your point of view, between you and the Vice President?\n Well, I'm not for photo licensing. Let me say something about Columbine. Listen, we've got gun laws. He says we ought to have gun-free schools. Everybody believes that. I'm sure every state in the union has got them. You can't carry a gun into a school. And there ought to be a consequence when you do carry a gun into a school. But Columbine spoke to a larger issue. It's really a matter of culture. It's a culture that somewhere along the line we've begun to disrespect life. Where a child can walk in and have their heart turned dark as a result of being on the Internet and walk in and decide to take somebody else's life? So gun laws are important, no question about it, but so is loving children, and character education classes, and faith-based programs being a part of after-school programs. Some desperate child needs to have somebody put their arm around them and say, we love you. So there's a -- this is a society that -- of ours that's got to do a better job of teaching children right from wrong. And we can enforce law. But there seems to be a lot of preoccupation on -- not certainly only in this debate, but just in general on law. But there's a larger law. Love your neighbor like you would like to be loved yourself. And that's where our society must head if we're going to be a peaceful and prosperous society.\n I also believe in the Golden Rule. And I agree with a lot of the other things that the governor has said. We do have a serious problem in our culture. Tipper and I have worked on the problem of violence in entertainment aimed at children. She's worked on it longer than I have. But I feel very strongly about that. And if I'm elected president, I will do something about that. But I think that we -- I think we have to start with better parenting. But I don't think that we can ignore the role played by guns. I mean, the fact is that there -- even though no state wants them, there are guns in some schools. And the reason it's so difficult for schools to control that is because in recent years there has been a flood of cheap handguns that are so widely available that kids are finding ways to get ahold of them. And I think that if you look at the situation as it exists here in the United States compared to any other country in the world, it seems to me pretty obvious that while we respect the rights of hunters and sportsmen, we do need some common sense gun safety steps to stem this flood of guns that are getting into the wrong hands.\n Yeah, no question about that, but there also needs to be strong enforcement of the law. Some kid who feels like -- doesn't matter where the gun comes from, it could be a cheap gun, expensive gun. What matters is something in this person's head says there is not going to be a consequence. So in my state we toughen up the juvenile justice laws. We added beds. We're tough. We believe in tough love. We say, if you get caught carrying a gun, you're automatically detained. And that's what needs to happen. We've got laws. If laws need to be strengthened, like instant background checks, that's important.\n New question. As I was saying. Both of you -- Governor, both of you have talked much about Medicare and health care for seniors. What about the more than 40 million younger Americans who do not have health insurance right now? What would you do about that?\n Well, I've got a plan to do something about that. It's to make health care affordable and available this way. First, there's some who should be buying health care who choose not to. There's some --\n Some of the 40 million.\n Some of the healthy folks, healthy young kids say I'll never get sick, therefore I don't need health care right now. For those what I think we need to do is to develop an investment-type vehicle that would be an incentive for them to invest, like medical savings accounts with rollover capacity. In other words, you say to a youngster, it will be in your financial interest to start saving for future illness, but for the working folks that do want to have health care that can't afford it, a couple of things we need to do. One, we need more community health centers. I've developed -- put out money in my budget to expand community health centers all around the country. These are places where people can get primary care. Secondly -- and they're good. They're very important parts of the safety net of health care. Secondly, that you get a $2,000 rebate from the government if you're a family of $30,000 or less -- it scales down as you get higher -- that you can use to purchase health care in the private markets. It will be a huge down payment for a pretty darn good system. If you allow -- also allow -- convince states to -- allow states to allow the mother to match some of the children's health insurance money with it, the pool purchasing power. And to make health care more affordable, allow business associations like the National Federal of Independent Business or the Chamber of Commerce or the National Restaurant Association to write association plans across jurisdictional lines so that small businesses have got the capacity to have national pooling to drive the cost of insurance down. I think that's the very best way to go. It empowers people, it trusts people, it makes -- and it's a practical way to encourage people to purchase health care insurance.\n Vice President Gore?\n It's one of my top priorities, Jim, to give every single child in the United States affordable health care within the next four years. I would like to see eventually in this country some form of universal health care, but I'm not for a government-run system. In fact, I'm for shrinking the size of government. I want a smaller and smarter government. I have been in charge of this reinventing government streamlining project that's reduced the size of government by more than 300,000 people in the last several years. And the budget plan that I've put out, according to the \"Los Angeles Times\" again, the way these things are typically measured as a percentage of the GDP, will bring government spending down to the lowest level in 50 years. So I want to proceed carefully to cover more people. But I think we should start by greatly expanding the so-called child health insurance or CHIP program to give health insurance to every single child in this country. I think it's intolerable that we have so many millions of children without any health insurance. So it's one of my top priorities. Now, I know that we have some disagreements on this. And I'm sorry to tell you that, you know, there is a record here. And Texas ranks 49th out of the 50 states in health care -- in children with health care. 49th for women with health care, and 50th for families with health care. So it is a priority for me. I guarantee you. I'm not aware of any program -- well, I'll just leave it at that. I think it ought to be a top priority.\n Governor, did the -- are the vice president's figures correct about Texas?\n First of all, let me say he's not for a government-run health care system? I thought that's exactly what he and Mrs. Clinton and them fought for in 1993 was a government-run health care system. It was fortunately stopped in its tracks. Secondly, we spend $4.7 billion a year on the uninsured in the State of Texas. Our rate of uninsured, the percentage of uninsured in Texas has gone down, while the percentage of uninsured in America has gone up. Our CHIPS program got a late start because our government meets only four months out of every two years, Mr. Vice President. It may come as a shock for somebody who has been in Washington for so long. But actually limited government can work in the second largest state in the union. And therefore Congress passes the bill after our session in 1997 ended, we passed an enabling legislation in 1999. We've signed up over 110,000 children to the CHIPS program. For comparable states our size, we're signing them up as fast as any other state. You can quote all the numbers you want, but I'm telling you we care about our people in Texas. We spent a lot of money to make sure people get health care in the State of Texas, and we're doing a better job than they are at the national level for reducing uninsured.\n Is he right?\n Well, I don't know about all these percentages that he throws out, but I do know that -- I speculate that the reason why he didn't answer your question directly as to whether my numbers were right, the facts were right about Texas ranking dead last in families with health insurance and 49th out of 50 for both children and women, is because those facts are correct. And as for why it happened, I'm no expert on the Texas procedures, but what my friends there tell me is that the governor opposed a measure put forward by Democrats in the legislature to expand the number of children that would be covered. And instead directed the money toward a tax cut, a significant part of which went to wealthy interests. He declared the need for a new tax cut for the oil companies in Texas an emergency need, and so the money was taken away from the CHIP program. There's -- you don't have to take my word for this. There is now a federal judge's opinion about the current management of this program ordering the State of Texas to do -- you should read that judge's language about this. I believe there are 1.4 million children in Texas who do not have health insurance. 600,000 of whom, and maybe some of those have since gotten it, but as of a year ago 600,000 of them were actually eligible for it but they couldn't sign up for it because of the barriers that they had set up.\n Let's let the governor respond to that. Are those numbers correct? Are his charges correct?\n If he's trying to allege that I'm a hard-hearted person and I don't care about children, he's absolutely wrong. We've spent $4.7 billion a year in the State of Texas for uninsured people. And they get health care. Now, it's not the most efficient way to get people health care. But I want to remind you, the number of uninsured in America during their watch has increased. He can make any excuse he wants, but the facts are that we're reducing the number of uninsured percentage of our population. And as the percentage of the population is increasing nationally, somehow the allegation that we don't care and we're going to give money for this interest or that interest and not for children in the State of Texas is totally absurd. Let me just tell you who the jury is. The people of Texas. There's only been one governor ever elected to back-to-back four-year terms, and that was me. And I was able to do so with a lot of Democrat votes, nearly 50% of the Hispanic vote, about 27% of the African-American vote, because people know I'm a conservative person and a compassionate person. So he can throw all the kinds of numbers around. I'm just telling you our state comes together to do what is right. We come together both Republicans and Democrats.\n Let me put that directly to you, Vice President Gore. The reason you brought this up, is it -- are you suggesting that those numbers and that record will reflect the way Governor Bush will operate in this area of health insurance as president?\n Yes, yes. But it's not a statement about his heart. I don't claim to know his heart. I think he's a good person. I make no allegations about that. I believe him when he says that he has a good heart. I know enough about your story to admire a lot of the things that you have done as a person. But I think it's about his priorities. And let me tell you exactly why I think that the choice he made to give a tax cut for the oil companies and others before addressing this -- I mean, if you were the governor of a state that was dead last in health care for families, and all of a sudden you found yourself with the biggest surplus your state had ever had in its history, wouldn't you want to maybe use some of it to climb from 50th to, say, 45 or 40 or something or maybe better? I would. Now, but here is why it's directly relevant, Jim. Because by his own budget numbers, his proposals for spending on tax cuts for the wealthiest of the wealthy are more than the new spending proposals that he has made for health care and education and national defense all combined. According to his own numbers. So it's not a question of his heart, as far as I know. It's a question of priorities and values. See, you know --\n Let me ask --\n First of all, that's simply not true what he just said, of course. And secondly, I repeat to you --\n What is not true, Governor?\n That we spent -- the top 1% receive 223 as opposed to 445 billion in new spending. The top -- let's talk about my tax plan. The top 1% will pay one-third of all the federal income taxes. And in return, get one-fifth of the benefits, because most of the tax reductions go to the people at the bottom end of the economic ladder. That stands in stark contrast, by the way, to a man who is going to leave 50 million -- 50 million Americans out of tax relief. We just have a different point of view. It's a totally different point of view. He believes only the right people ought to get tax relief. I believe everybody who pays taxes ought to get tax relief. Let me go back to Texas, for example, for a minute. We pay 4.7 billion. I can't emphasize to you how much. I signed a bill that puts CHIPS in place. The bill finally came out at the end of the 1999 session. We're working hard to sign up children. We're doing it faster than any other state our size, comparable state. We're making really good progress. And our state cares a lot about our children. My priority is going to be the health of our citizens. These folks have had eight years to get something done in Washington, D.C. on the uninsured. They have not done it. They've had eight years to get something done on Medicare. And they have not got it done. And my case to the American people is, if you're happy with inactivity, stay with the horse. The horse is up there now. But if you want change, you need to get somebody that knows how to bring Republicans and Democrats together to get positive things done for American.\n New question, new subject. Vice President Gore, on the environment. In your 1992 book you said, quote, \"We must make the rescue of our environment the central organizing principle for civilization and there must be a wrenching transformation to save the planet.\" Do you still feel that way?\n I do. I think that in this 21st century we will soon see the consequences of what's called global warming. There was a study just a few weeks ago suggesting that in summertime the north polar ice cap will be completely gone in 50 years. Already people see the strange weather conditions that the old timers say they've never seen before in their lifetimes. And what's happening is the level of pollution is increasing significantly. Now, here is the good news, Jim. If we take the leadership role and build the new technologies, like the new kinds of cars and trucks that Detroit is itching to build, then we can create millions of good new jobs by being first into the market with these new kinds of cars and trucks and other kinds of technologies. You know the Japanese are breathing down our necks on this. They're moving very rapidly because they know that it is a fast-growing world market. Some of these other countries, particularly in the developing world, their pollution is much worse than anywhere else and their people want higher standards of living. And so they're looking for ways to satisfy their desire for a better life and still reduce pollution at the same time. I think that holding onto the old ways and the old argument that the environment and the economy are in conflict is really outdated. We have to be bold. We have to provide leadership. Now it's true that we disagree on this. The governor said that he doesn't think this problem is necessarily caused by people. He's for letting the oil companies into the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Houston has just become the smoggiest city in the country. And Texas is number one in industrial pollution. We have a very different outlook. And I'll tell you this, I will fight for a clean environment in ways that strengthen our economy.\n Governor?\n Well, let me start with Texas. We are a big industrial state. We reduced our industrial waste by 11%. We cleaned up more brown fields than any other administration in my state's history, 450 of them. Our water is cleaner now.\n Explain what a brown field is to those who don't follow this.\n A brown field is an abandoned industrial site that just sits idle in some of our urban centers. And people are willing to invest capital in the brown fields don't want to do so for fear of lawsuit. I think we ought to have federal liability protection, depending upon whether or not standards have been met. The book you mentioned that Vice President Gore wrote, he also called for taxing -- big energy taxes in order to clean up the environment. And now that the energy prices are high, I guess he's not advocating those big energy taxes right now. I believe we ought to fully fund the Land and Water Conservation Fund to -- with half the money going to states so states can make the right decisions for environmental quality. I think we need to have clean coal technologies. I propose $2 billion worth. By the way, I just found out the other day an interesting fact, that there is a national petroleum reserve right next to -- in Prudhoe Bay that your administration opened up for exploration in that pristine area. And it was a smart move because there's gas reserves up there. We need gas pipelines to bring the gas down. Gas is a clean fuel that we can burn to -- we need to make sure that if we decontrol our plants that there's mandatory -- that the plants must conform to clean air standards, the grandfathered plants, that's what we did in Texas. No excuses. You must conform. In other words, there are practical things we can do. But it starts with working in a collaborative effort with states and local folks. If you own the land, every day is Earth Day. People care a lot about their land and care about their environment. Not all wisdom is in Washington, D.C. on this issue.\n Where do you see the basic difference in very simple terms in two or three sentences between you and the governor on the environment? If a voter wants to make a choice, what is it?\n I'm really strongly committed to clean water and clean air, and cleaning up the new kinds of challenges like global warming. He is right that I'm not in favor of energy taxes. I am in favor of tax cuts to encourage and give incentives for the quicker development of these new kinds of technologies. And let me say again, Detroit is rearing to go on that. We differ on the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, as I have said. We differ on whether or not pollution controls ought to be voluntary. I don't think you can -- I don't think you can get results that way. We differ on the kinds of appointments that we would make.\n Would you say it's a fundamental difference?\n I think it's a fundamental difference. Let me give you an example.\n Hold on one second.\n Okay, sure.\n We've talked about supply. I just want to know for somebody -- we're getting close to the end of our time here. If somebody wanted to vote on the environment, how would you draw the differences, Governor?\n Well, I don't believe in command and control out of Washington, D.C. I believe Washington ought to set standards, but again I think we ought to be collaborative at the local levels and I think we ought to work with people at the local levels. And by the way, I just want to make sure -- I can't let him just say something and not correct it. The electric decontrol bill that I fought for and signed in Texas has mandatory emission standards, Mr. Vice President. That's what we ought to do at the federal level when it comes to grandfathered plants for utilities. I think there's a difference. I think, for example, take -- when they took 40 million acres of land out of circulation without consulting local officials, I thought that was --\n That was out in the west?\n Out in the west, yeah. And so -- on the logging issue. That's not the way I would have done it. Perhaps some of that land needs to be set aside. But I certainly would have consulted with governors and elected officials before I would have acted unilaterally.\n Would you believe the federal government still has some new rules and new regulations and new laws to pass in the environmental area or do you think --\n Sure, absolutely, so long as they're based upon science and they're reasonable. So long as people have input.\n What about global warming?\n I think it's an issue that we need to take very seriously. But I don't think we know the solution to global warming yet. And I don't think we've got all the facts before we make decisions. I tell you one thing I'm not going to do is I'm not going to let the United States carry the burden for cleaning up the world's air. Like Kyoto Treaty would have done. China and India were exempted from that treaty. I think we need to be more even-handed, as evidently 99 senators -- I think it was 99 senators supported that position.\n Global warming, the Senate did turn it down. I think --\n 99 to nothing.\n Well, that vote wasn't exactly -- a lot of the supporters of the Kyoto Treaty actually ended up voting for that because the way it was worded. But there's no doubt there's a lot of opposition to it in the Senate. I'm not for command and control techniques either. I'm for working with the groups, not just with industry but also with the citizen groups and local communities to control sprawl in ways that the local communities themselves come up with. But I disagree that we don't know the cause of global warming. I think that we do. It's pollution, carbon dioxide, and other chemicals that are even more potent, but in smaller quantities, that cause this. Look, the world's temperature is going up, weather patterns are changing, storms are getting more violent and unpredictable. What are we going to tell our children? I'm a grandfather now. I want to be able to tell my grandson when I'm in my later years that I didn't turn away from the evidence that showed that we were doing some serious harm. In my faith tradition, it is -- it's written in the book of Matthew, \"Where your heart is, there is your treasure also.\" And I believe that -- that we ought to recognize the value to our children and grandchildren of taking steps that preserve the environment in a way that's good for them.\n Yeah, I agree. I just -- I think there has been -- some of the scientists, I believe, Mr. Vice President, haven't they been changing their opinion a little bit on global warming? A profound scientist recently made a different --\n Both of you have now violated -- excuse me. Both of you have now violated your own rules. Hold that thought.\n I've been trying so hard not to.\n I know, I know. But under your alls rules you are not allowed to ask each other a question. I let you do it a moment ago.\n Twice.\n Now you just -- twice, sorry. \n That's an interruption, by the way.\n That's an interruption, okay. But anyhow, you just did it so now --\n I'm sorry. I apologize, Mr. Vice President.\n You aren't allowed to do that either, see? I'm sorry, go ahead and finish your thought. People care about these things I've found out.\n Of course they care about them. Oh, you mean the rules.\n Yeah, right, exactly right. Go ahead.\n What the heck. I -- of course there's a lot -- look, global warming needs to be taken very seriously, and I take it seriously. But science, there's a lot -- there's differing opinions. And before we react, I think it's best to have the full accounting, full understanding of what's taking place. And I think to answer your question, I think both of us care a lot about the environment. We may have different approaches. We may have different approaches in terms of how we deal with local folks. I just cited an example of the administration just unilaterally acting without any input. And I remember you gave a very good answer to New Hampshire about the White Mountains, about how it was important to keep that collaborative effort in place. I feel very strongly the same place. It certainly wasn't the attitude that took place out west, however.\n New question. Last question. For you, Governor. And this flows somewhat out of the Boston debate. You, your running mate, your campaign officials have charged that Vice President Gore exaggerates, embellishes and stretches the facts, etcetera. Are you -- do you believe these are serious issues? This is a serious issue that the voters should use in deciding which one of you two men to vote for on November 7?\n Well, we all make mistakes. I've been known to mangle a syllable or two myself, you know, if you know what I mean. I think credibility is important. It is going to be important for the president to be credible with Congress, important for the president to be credible with foreign nations. And yes, I think it's something that people need to consider. This isn't something new. I read a report, or a memo, from somebody in his 1988 campaign -- I forgot the fellow's name -- warning then Senator Gore to be careful about exaggerating claims. I thought during his debate with Senator Bradley saying he authored the EITC when it didn't happen. I mention the last debate --\n EITC?\n The Earned Income Tax Credit, sorry.\n That's all right.\n A lot of initials from a guy who's not from Washington, isn't it? Anyway, he co-sponsored McCain-Feingold, and yet he didn't. And so I think this is an issue. I found it to be an issue in trying to defend my tax relief package. I thought there was some exaggerations about the numbers. But the people are going to have to make up their mind on this issue. And I am going to continue to defend my record and defend my propositions against what I think are exaggerations. Exaggerations like, for example, only 5% of seniors receive benefits under my Medicare reform package. That's what he said the other day, and that's simply not the case. And I have every right in the world to defend my record and positions. That's what debates are about and that's what campaigns are about.\n Vice President Gore?\n I got some of the details wrong last week in some of the examples that I used, Jim, and I'm sorry about that. And I'm going to try to do better. One of the reasons I regret it is that getting a detail wrong interfered several times with the point that I was trying to make. However many days that young girl in Florida stood in her classroom, however long, even if it was only one day, doesn't change the fact that there are a lot of overcrowded classrooms in America and we need to do something about that. There are seniors who pay more for their prescriptions than a lot of other people, more than their pets, sometimes. More sometimes than people in foreign countries. And we need to do something about that. Not with the measure that leaves the majority of them without any real basic help until the next president's term of four years is over. But right away. And that means doing it under the Medicare program. I can't promise that I will never get another detail wrong. I can promise you that I will try not to, and hard. But I will promise you this with all the confidence in my heart and in the world, that I will do my best if I'm elected president, I'll work my heart out to get the big things right for the American people.\n Does that resolve the issue, Governor?\n That's going to be up to the people, isn't it?\n Does it resolve it for you?\n Depends on what he says in the future in the campaign.\n Your folks are saying some awful things.\n I hope they're not awful things. I think they may be using the man's own words.\n Well, what I mean is calling him a serial exaggerator --\n I don't believe I've used those words.\n No, but your campaign ads.\n Maybe they have.\n And your campaign officials have. And your campaign officials, Mr. Vice President, are now calling the governor a bumbler.\n Wait a minute. \n I mean, my point is, should this -- is this --\n I don't use language like that and I don't think that we should.\n It's in your commercial.\n I understand. The -- I haven't seen that, in my commercials?\n You haven't seen the commercial?\n Your --\n I think that what -- I think the point of that is that anybody would have a hard time trying to make a tax cut plan that is so large, that would put us into such big deficits, that gives almost half the benefits to the wealthiest of the wealthy. I think anybody would have a hard time explaining that clearly in a way that makes sense to the average person.\n That's the kind of exaggeration I was just talking about. \n Well, I wasn't the one having trouble explaining it.\n Gentlemen, it's time to go to the closing statements. And Vice President Gore, you have two minutes.\n Jim, one of the issues that I would like to close with in my statement is education, because it's an example of the overall approach that I think is important. This race is about values, it's about change, it's about giving choices to the American people. And education is my number one priority, because I think that it's the most important big major change that we can bring in our country. I agree with Governor Bush that we should have new accountability, testing of students. I think that we should require states to test all students, test schools and school districts, and I think that we should go further and require teacher testing for new teachers also. The difference is that while my plan starts with new accountability and maintains local control, it doesn't stop there. Because I want to give new choices to parents. To send their kids to college with a $10,000 tax deduction for college tuition per child per year. I want to reduce the size of the classrooms in this country. For one basic reason, so that students can get more one-on-one time with teachers. And the way to do that is first to recruit more teachers. I've a plan in my budget to recruit 100,000 new, highly qualified teachers and to help local school districts build new schools. I think that we have to put more emphasis on early learning and pre-school. Now, here is how that connects with all the rest of what we've been talking about. If you have -- if you squander the surplus on a huge tax cut that goes mostly to those at the top, then you can't make education the top priority. If the tax cut is your number one, two, three and four priority, you can't do education. You can't do both. You have to choose. I choose education and health care, the environment and retirement security, and I ask for your support.\n Governor Bush, two minutes.\n Jim, thank you very much. Mr. Vice President, thank you very much, and I would like to thank the folks here at Wake Forest, and I want to thank you all for listening. I'm running to get some things done for America. There's too many issues left unresolved. There's been too much finger pointing and too much name calling in Washington, D.C. I would like to unite this country to get an agenda done that will speak to the hopes and aspirations of the future. I want to have an education system that sets high standards, local control of schools and strong accountability. No child should be left behind in America. I want to make sure we rebuild our military to keep the peace. I worry about morale in today's military. The warning signs are clear. It is time to have a new commander in chief who will rebuild the military, pay our men and women more, make sure they're housed better and have a focused mission for our military. Once and for all, I want to do something about Medicare. This issue has been too long on the table because it's been a political issue. It's time to bring folks together to say that all seniors will get prescription drug coverage. I want to do something about Social Security. It's an important priority, because now is the time to act and we're going to say to our seniors, our promises we've made to you will be promises kept. But younger workers, in order to make sure the system exists tomorrow, younger workers ought to be able to take some of your own money and invest it in safe securities to get a better rate of return on that money. And finally, I do believe in tax relief. I believe we can set our priorities. I don't believe, like the vice president does, in huge government. I believe in limited government. By having a limited government and a focused government, we can send some of the money back to the people who pay the bills. I want to have tax relief for all people who pay the bills in America, because I think you can spend your money more wisely than the federal government can. Thank you for listening. I'm asking for your vote, and God bless.\n And we will return next Tuesday night, October 17th, from Washington University in St. Louis for the third and final debate. Thank you, Vice President Gore, Governor Bush. See you next week. For now, from Winston-Salem, I'm Jim Lehrer, thank you and good night.\n\n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "spoken", "name": "2nd_Gore-Bush", "class": "debate-transcript"}
{"subclass": null, "text_id": "spoken/debate-transcript/3rd_Bush-Kerry", "text": "\n\n\n\n\n\nDebate Transcript\nOctober 13, 2004\nThe Third Bush-Kerry Presidential Debate\nTHIRD PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES' DEBATE ARIZONA STATE UNIVERSITY, TEMPE, ARIZONA\nSPEAKERS\nGEORGE W. BUSH PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES\nU. S. SENATOR JOHN F. KERRY (MA) DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE \nBOB SCHIEFFER CBS ANCHOR\n \n Good evening from Arizona State University in Tempe, Arizona. I'm Bob Schieffer of CBS News. I want to welcome you to the third and last of the 2004 debates between President George Bush and Senator John Kerry. \nAs Jim Lehrer told you before the first one, these debates are sponsored by the Commission on Presidential Debates. \nTonight the topic will be domestic affairs, but the format will be the same as that first debate. I'll moderate our discussion under detailed rules agreed to by the candidates, but the questions and the areas to be covered were chosen by me. I have not told the candidates or anyone else what they are. \nTo refresh your memory on the rules, I will ask a question. The candidate is allowed two minutes to answer. His opponent then has a minute and a half to offer a rebuttal. \nAt my discretion, I can extend the discussion by offering each candidate an additional 30 seconds. \nA green light will come on to signal the candidate has 30 seconds left. A yellow light signals 15 seconds left. A red light means five seconds left. \nThere is also a buzzer, if it is needed. \nThe candidates may not question each other directly. There are no opening statements, but there will be two-minute closing statements. \nThere is an audience here tonight, but they have agreed to remain silent, except for right now, when they join me in welcoming President George Bush and Senator John Kerry. \n\nGentlemen, welcome to you both. \nBy coin toss, the first question goes to Senator Kerry. \nSenator, I want to set the stage for this discussion by asking the question that I think hangs over all of our politics today and is probably on the minds of many people watching this debate tonight. \nAnd that is, will our children and grandchildren ever live in a world as safe and secure as the world in which we grew up? \n Well, first of all, Bob, thank you for moderating tonight. \nThank you, Arizona State, for welcoming us. \nAnd thank you to the Presidential Commission for undertaking this enormous task. We're proud to be here. \nMr. President, I'm glad to be here with you again to share similarities and differences with the American people. \nWill we ever be safe and secure again? Yes. We absolutely must be. That's the goal. \nNow, how do we achieve it is the most critical component of it. \nI believe that this president, regrettably, rushed us into a war, made decisions about foreign policy, pushed alliances away. And, as a result, America is now bearing this extraordinary burden where we are not as safe as we ought to be. \nThe measurement is not: Are we safer? The measurement is: Are we as safe as we ought to be? And there are a host of options that this president had available to him, like making sure that at all our ports in America containers are inspected. Only 95 percent of them -- 95 percent come in today uninspected. That's not good enough. \nPeople who fly on airplanes today, the cargo hold is not X-rayed, but the baggage is. That's not good enough. Firehouses don't have enough firefighters in them. Police officers are being cut from the streets of America because the president decided to cut the COPS program. \nSo we can do a better job of homeland security. I can do a better job of waging a smarter, more effective war on terror and guarantee that we will go after the terrorists. \nI will hunt them down, and we'll kill them, we'll capture them. We'll do whatever is necessary to be safe. \nBut I pledge this to you, America: I will do it in the way that Franklin Roosevelt and Ronald Reagan and John Kennedy and others did, where we build the strongest alliances, where the world joins together, where we have the best intelligence and where we are able, ultimately, to be more safe and secure. \n Mr. President, you have 90 seconds. \n Thank you very much. \nI want to thank Arizona State as well. \nYes, we can be safe and secure, if we stay on the offense against the terrorists and if we spread freedom and liberty around the world. \nI have got a comprehensive strategy to not only chase down the Al Qaida, wherever it exists -- and we're making progress; three-quarters of Al Qaida leaders have been brought to justice -- but to make sure that countries that harbor terrorists are held to account. \nAs a result of securing ourselves and ridding the Taliban out of Afghanistan, the Afghan people had elections this weekend. And the first voter was a 19-year-old woman. Think about that. Freedom is on the march. \nWe held to account a terrorist regime in Saddam Hussein. \nIn other words, in order to make sure we're secure, there must be a comprehensive plan. My opponent just this weekend talked about how terrorism could be reduced to a nuisance, comparing it to prostitution, illegal gambling. I think that attitude and that point of view is dangerous. I don't think you can secure America for the long run if you don't have a comprehensive view as to how to defeat these people. \nAt home, we'll do everything we can to protect the homeland. I signed the homeland security bill to better align our assets and resources. My opponent voted against it. \nWe're doing everything we can to protect our borders and ports. \nBut absolutely we can be secure in the long run. It just takes good, strong leadership. \n Anything to add, Senator Kerry? \n Yes. When the president had an opportunity to capture or kill Osama bin Laden, he took his focus off of them, outsourced the job to Afghan warlords, and Osama bin Laden escaped. \nSix months after he said Osama bin Laden must be caught dead or alive, this president was asked, \"Where is Osama bin Laden? \" He said, \"I don't know. I don't really think about him very much. I'm not that concerned. \"\nWe need a president who stays deadly focused on the real war on terror. \n Mr. President? \n Gosh, I just don't think I ever said I'm not worried about Osama bin Laden. It's kind of one of those exaggerations. \nOf course we're worried about Osama bin Laden. We're on the hunt after Osama bin Laden. We're using every asset at our disposal to get Osama bin Laden. \nMy opponent said this war is a matter of intelligence and law enforcement. No, this war is a matter of using every asset at our disposal to keep the American people protected. \n New question, Mr. President, to you. \nWe are talking about protecting ourselves from the unexpected, but the flu season is suddenly upon us. Flu kills thousands of people every year. \nSuddenly we find ourselves with a severe shortage of flu vaccine. How did that happen? \n Bob, we relied upon a company out of England to provide about half of the flu vaccines for the United States citizen, and it turned out that the vaccine they were producing was contaminated. And so we took the right action and didn't allow contaminated medicine into our country. We're working with Canada to hopefully -- that they'll produce a -- help us realize the vaccine necessary to make sure our citizens have got flu vaccinations during this upcoming season. \nMy call to our fellow Americans is if you're healthy, if you're younger, don't get a flu shot this year. Help us prioritize those who need to get the flu shot, the elderly and the young. \nThe CDC, responsible for health in the United States, is setting those priorities and is allocating the flu vaccine accordingly. \nI haven't gotten a flu shot, and I don't intend to because I want to make sure those who are most vulnerable get treated. \nWe have a problem with litigation in the United States of America. Vaccine manufacturers are worried about getting sued, and therefore they have backed off from providing this kind of vaccine. \nOne of the reasons I'm such a strong believer in legal reform is so that people aren't afraid of producing a product that is necessary for the health of our citizens and then end up getting sued in a court of law. \nBut the best thing we can do now, Bob, given the circumstances with the company in England is for those of us who are younger and healthy, don't get a flu shot. \n Senator Kerry? \n This really underscores the problem with the American health-care system. It's not working for the American family. And it's gotten worse under President Bush over the course of the last years. \nFive million Americans have lost their health insurance in this country. You've got about a million right here in Arizona, just shy, 950,000, who have no health insurance at all. 82,000 Arizonians lost their health insurance under President Bush's watch. 223,000 kids in Arizona have no health insurance at all. \nAll across our country -- go to Ohio, 1. 4 million Ohioans have no health insurance, 114,000 of them lost it under President Bush; Wisconsin, 82,000 Wisconsinites lost it under President Bush. \nThis president has turned his back on the wellness of America. And there is no system. In fact, it's starting to fall apart not because of lawsuits -- though they are a problem, and John Edwards and I are committed to fixing them -- but because of the larger issue that we don't cover Americans. \nChildren across our country don't have health care. We're the richest country on the face of the planet, the only industrialized nation in the world not to do it. \nI have a plan to cover all Americans. We're going to make it affordable and accessible. We're going to let everybody buy into the same health-care plan senators and congressmen give themselves. \n Mr. President, would you like to add something? \n I would. Thank you. \nI want to remind people listening tonight that a plan is not a litany of complaints, and a plan is not to lay out programs that you can't pay for. \nHe just said he wants everybody to be able to buy in to the same plan that senators and congressmen get. That costs the government $7,700 per family. If every family in America signed up, like the senator suggested, if would cost us $5 trillion over 10 years. \nIt's an empty promise. It's called bait and switch. \n Time's up. \n Thank you. \n Actually, it's not an empty promise. \nIt's really interesting, because the president used that very plan as a reason for seniors to accept his prescription drug plan. He said, if it's good enough for the congressmen and senators to have choice, seniors ought to have choice. \nWhat we do is we have choice. I choose Blue Cross/Blue Shield. Other senators, other congressmen choose other programs. \nBut the fact is, we're going to help Americans be able to buy into it. Those that can afford it are going to buy in themselves. We're not giving this away for nothing. \n All right. \nSenator Kerry, a new question. Let's talk about economic security. You pledged during the last debate that you would not raise taxes on those making less than $200,000 a year. But the price of everything is going up, and we all know it. Health-care costs, as you are talking about, is skyrocketing, the cost of the war. \nMy question is, how can you or any president, whoever is elected next time, keep that pledge without running this country deeper into debt and passing on more of the bills that we're running up to our children? \n I'll tell you exactly how I can do it: by reinstating what President Bush took away, which is called pay as you go. \nDuring the 1990s, we had pay-as-you-go rules. If you were going to pass something in the Congress, you had to show where you are going to pay for it and how. \nPresident Bush has taken -- he's the only president in history to do this. He's also the only president in 72 years to lose jobs -- 1. 6 million jobs lost. He's the only president to have incomes of families go down for the last three years; the only president to see exports go down; the only president to see the lowest level of business investment in our country as it is today. \nNow, I'm going to reverse that. I'm going to change that. We're going to restore the fiscal discipline we had in the 1990s. \nEvery plan that I have laid out -- my health-care plan, my plan for education, my plan for kids to be able to get better college loans -- I've shown exactly how I'm going to pay for those. \nAnd we start -- we don't do it exclusively -- but we start by rolling back George Bush's unaffordable tax cut for the wealthiest people, people earning more than $200,000 a year, and we pass, hopefully, the McCain-Kerry Commission which identified some $60 billion that we can get. \nWe shut the loophole which has American workers actually subsidizing the loss of their own job. They just passed an expansion of that loophole in the last few days: $43 billion of giveaways, including favors to the oil and gas industry and the people importing ceiling fans from China. \nI'm going to stand up and fight for the American worker. And I am going to do it in a way that's fiscally sound. I show how I pay for the health care, how we pay for the education. \nI have a manufacturing jobs credit. We pay for it by shutting that loophole overseas. We raise the student loans. I pay for it by changing the relationship with the banks. \nThis president has never once vetoed one bill; the first president in a hundred years not to do that. \n Mr. President? \n Well, his rhetoric doesn't match his record. \nHe been a senator for 20 years. He voted to increase taxes 98 times. When they tried to reduce taxes, he voted against that 127 times. He talks about being a fiscal conservative, or fiscally sound, but he voted over -- he voted 277 times to waive the budget caps, which would have cost the taxpayers $4. 2 trillion. \nHe talks about PAYGO. I'll tell you what PAYGO means, when you're a senator from Massachusetts, when you're a colleague of Ted Kennedy, pay go means: You pay, and he goes ahead and spends. \nHe's proposed $2. 2 trillion of new spending, and yet the so-called tax on the rich, which is also a tax on many small-business owners in America, raises $600 million by our account -- billion, $800 billion by his account. \nThere is a tax gap. And guess who usually ends up filling the tax gap? The middle class. \nI propose a detailed budget, Bob. I sent up my budget man to the Congress, and he says, here's how we're going to reduce the deficit in half by five years. It requires pro-growth policies that grow our economy and fiscal sanity in the halls of Congress. \n Let's go to a new question, Mr. President. Two minutes. And let's continue on jobs. \nYou know, there are all kind of statistics out there, but I want to bring it down to an individual. \nMr. President, what do you say to someone in this country who has lost his job to someone overseas who's being paid a fraction of what that job paid here in the United States? \n I'd say, Bob, I've got policies to continue to grow our economy and create the jobs of the 21st century. And here's some help for you to go get an education. Here's some help for you to go to a community college. \nWe've expanded trade adjustment assistance. We want to help pay for you to gain the skills necessary to fill the jobs of the 21st century. \nYou know, there's a lot of talk about how to keep the economy growing. We talk about fiscal matters. But perhaps the best way to keep jobs here in America and to keep this economy growing is to make sure our education system works. \nI went to Washington to solve problems. And I saw a problem in the public education system in America. They were just shuffling too many kids through the system, year after year, grade after grade, without learning the basics. \nAnd so we said: Let's raise the standards. We're spending more money, but let's raise the standards and measure early and solve problems now, before it's too late. \nNo, education is how to help the person who's lost a job. Education is how to make sure we've got a workforce that's productive and competitive. \nGot four more years, I've got more to do to continue to raise standards, to continue to reward teachers and school districts that are working, to emphasize math and science in the classrooms, to continue to expand Pell Grants to make sure that people have an opportunity to start their career with a college diploma. \nAnd so the person you talked to, I say, here's some help, here's some trade adjustment assistance money for you to go a community college in your neighborhood, a community college which is providing the skills necessary to fill the jobs of the 21st century. And that's what I would say to that person. \n Senator Kerry? \n I want you to notice how the president switched away from jobs and started talking about education principally. \nLet me come back in one moment to that, but I want to speak for a second, if I can, to what the president said about fiscal responsibility. \nBeing lectured by the president on fiscal responsibility is a little bit like Tony Soprano talking to me about law and order in this country. \n\nThis president has taken a $5. 6 trillion surplus and turned it into deficits as far as the eye can see. Health-care costs for the average American have gone up 64 percent; tuitions have gone up 35 percent; gasoline prices up 30 percent; Medicare premiums went up 17 percent a few days ago; prescription drugs are up 12 percent a year. \nBut guess what, America? The wages of Americans have gone down. The jobs that are being created in Arizona right now are paying about $13,700 less than the jobs that we're losing. \nAnd the president just walks on by this problem. The fact is that he's cut job-training money. $1 billion was cut. They only added a little bit back this year because it's an election year. \nThey've cut the Pell Grants and the Perkins loans to help kids be able to go to college. \nThey've cut the training money. They've wound up not even extending unemployment benefits and not even extending health care to those people who are unemployed. \nI'm going to do those things, because that's what's right in America: Help workers to transition in every respect. \n New question to you, Senator Kerry, two minutes. And it's still on jobs. You know, many experts say that a president really doesn't have much control over jobs. For example, if someone invents a machine that does the work of five people, that's progress. That's not the president's fault. \nSo I ask you, is it fair to blame the administration entirely for this loss of jobs? \n I don't blame them entirely for it. I blame the president for the things the president could do that has an impact on it. \nOutsourcing is going to happen. I've acknowledged that in union halls across the country. I've had shop stewards stand up and say, \"Will you promise me you're going to stop all this outsourcing? \"And I've looked them in the eye and I've said, \"No, I can't do that. \"\nWhat I can promise you is that I will make the playing field as fair as possible, that I will, for instance, make certain that with respect to the tax system that you as a worker in America are not subsidizing the loss of your job. \nToday, if you're an American business, you actually get a benefit for going overseas. You get to defer your taxes. \nSo if you're looking at a competitive world, you say to yourself, \"Hey, I do better overseas than I do here in America. \"\nThat's not smart. I don't want American workers subsidizing the loss of their own job. And when I'm president, we're going to shut that loophole in a nanosecond and we're going to use that money to lower corporate tax rates in America for all corporations, 5 percent. And we're going to have a manufacturing jobs credit and a job hiring credit so we actually help people be able to hire here. \nThe second thing that we can do is provide a fair trade playing field. This president didn't stand up for Boeing when Airbus was violating international rules and subsidies. He discovered Boeing during the course of this campaign after I'd been talking about it for months. \nThe fact is that the president had an opportunity to stand up and take on China for currency manipulation. There are companies that wanted to petition the administration. They were told: Don't even bother; we're not going to listen to it. \nThe fact is that there have been markets shut to us that we haven't stood up and fought for. I'm going to fight for a fair trade playing field for the American worker. And I will fight for the American worker just as hard as I fight for my own job. That's what the American worker wants. And if we do that, we can have an impact. \nPlus, we need fiscal discipline. Restore fiscal discipline, we'll do a lot better. \n Mr. President? \n Whew!\nLet me start with the Pell Grants. In his last litany of misstatements. He said we cut Pell Grants. We've increased Pell Grants by a million students. That's a fact. \nYou know, he talks to the workers. Let me talk to the workers. \nYou've got more money in your pocket as a result of the tax relief we passed and he opposed. \nIf you have a child, you got a $1,000 child credit. That's money in your pocket. \nIf you're married, we reduced the marriage penalty. The code ought to encourage marriage, not discourage marriage. \nWe created a 10 percent bracket to help lower-income Americans. A family of four making $40,000 received about $1,700 in tax relief. \nIt's your money. The way my opponent talks, he said, \"We're going to spend the government's money. \"No, we're spending your money. And when you have more money in your pocket, you're able to better afford things you want. \nI believe the role of government is to stand side by side with our citizens to help them realize their dreams, not tell citizens how to live their lives. \nMy opponent talks about fiscal sanity. His record in the United States Senate does not match his rhetoric. \nHe voted to increase taxes 98 times and to bust the budget 277 times. \n Senator Kerry? \n Bob, anybody can play with these votes. Everybody knows that. \nI have supported or voted for tax cuts over 600 times. I broke with my party in order to balance the budget, and Ronald Reagan signed into law the tax cut that we voted for. I voted for IRA tax cuts. I voted for small-business tax cuts. \nBut you know why the Pell Grants have gone up in their numbers? Because more people qualify for them because they don't have money. \nBut they're not getting the $5,100 the president promised them. They're getting less money. \nWe have more people who qualify. That's not what we want. \n Senator, no one's playing with your votes. You voted to increase taxes 98 times. When they voted -- when they proposed reducing taxes, you voted against it 126 times. \nHe voted to violate the budget cap 277 times. You know, there's a main stream in American politics and you sit right on the far left bank. As a matter of fact, your record is such that Ted Kennedy, your colleague, is the conservative senator from Massachusetts. \n Mr. President, let's get back to economic issues. But let's shift to some other questions here. \nBoth of you are opposed to gay marriage. But to understand how you have come to that conclusion, I want to ask you a more basic question. Do you believe homosexuality is a choice? \n You know, Bob, I don't know. I just don't know. I do know that we have a choice to make in America and that is to treat people with tolerance and respect and dignity. It's important that we do that. \nAnd I also know in a free society people, consenting adults can live the way they want to live. \nAnd that's to be honored. \nBut as we respect someone's rights, and as we profess tolerance, we shouldn't change -- or have to change -- our basic views on the sanctity of marriage. I believe in the sanctity of marriage. I think it's very important that we protect marriage as an institution, between a man and a woman. \nI proposed a constitutional amendment. The reason I did so was because I was worried that activist judges are actually defining the definition of marriage, and the surest way to protect marriage between a man and woman is to amend the Constitution. \nIt has also the benefit of allowing citizens to participate in the process. After all, when you amend the Constitution, state legislatures must participate in the ratification of the Constitution. \nI'm deeply concerned that judges are making those decisions and not the citizenry of the United States. You know, Congress passed a law called DOMA, the Defense of Marriage Act. \nMy opponent was against it. It basically protected states from the action of one state to another. It also defined marriage as between a man and woman. \nBut I'm concerned that that will get overturned. And if it gets overturned, then we'll end up with marriage being defined by courts, and I don't think that's in our nation's interests. \n Senator Kerry? \n We're all God's children, Bob. And I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's being who she was, she's being who she was born as. \nI think if you talk to anybody, it's not choice. I've met people who struggled with this for years, people who were in a marriage because they were living a sort of convention, and they struggled with it. \nAnd I've met wives who are supportive of their husbands or vice versa when they finally sort of broke out and allowed themselves to live who they were, who they felt God had made them. \nI think we have to respect that. \nThe president and I share the belief that marriage is between a man and a woman. I believe that. I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. \nBut I also believe that because we are the United States of America, we're a country with a great, unbelievable Constitution, with rights that we afford people, that you can't discriminate in the workplace. You can't discriminate in the rights that you afford people. \nYou can't disallow someone the right to visit their partner in a hospital. You have to allow people to transfer property, which is why I'm for partnership rights and so forth. \nNow, with respect to DOMA and the marriage laws, the states have always been able to manage those laws. And they're proving today, every state, that they can manage them adequately. \n Senator Kerry, a new question for you. \nThe New York Times reports that some Catholic archbishops are telling their church members that it would be a sin to vote for a candidate like you because you support a woman's right to choose an abortion and unlimited stem-cell research. \nWhat is your reaction to that? \n I respect their views. I completely respect their views. I am a Catholic. And I grew up learning how to respect those views. But I disagree with them, as do many. \nI believe that I can't legislate or transfer to another American citizen my article of faith. What is an article of faith for me is not something that I can legislate on somebody who doesn't share that article of faith. \nI believe that choice is a woman's choice. It's between a woman, God and her doctor. And that's why I support that. \nNow, I will not allow somebody to come in and change Roe v. Wade. \nThe president has never said whether or not he would do that. But we know from the people he's tried to appoint to the court he wants to. \nI will not. I will defend the right of Roe v. Wade. \nNow, with respect to religion, you know, as I said, I grew up a Catholic. I was an altar boy. I know that throughout my life this has made a difference to me. \nAnd as President Kennedy said when he ran for president, he said, \"I'm not running to be a Catholic president. I'm running to be a president who happens to be Catholic. \"\nMy faith affects everything that I do, in truth. There's a great passage of the Bible that says, \"What does it mean, my brother, to say you have faith if there are no deeds? Faith without works is dead. \"\nAnd I think that everything you do in public life has to be guided by your faith, affected by your faith, but without transferring it in any official way to other people. \nThat's why I fight against poverty. That's why I fight to clean up the environment and protect this earth. \nThat's why I fight for equality and justice. All of those things come out of that fundamental teaching and belief of faith. \nBut I know this, that President Kennedy in his inaugural address told all of us that here on Earth, God's work must truly be our own. And that's what we have to -- I think that's the test of public service. \n Mr. President? \n I think it's important to promote a culture of life. I think a hospitable society is a society where every being counts and every person matters. I believe the ideal world is one in which every child is protected in law and welcomed to life. I understand there's great differences on this issue of abortion, but I believe reasonable people can come together and put good law in place that will help reduce the number of abortions. \nTake, for example, the ban on partial birth abortion. It's a brutal practice. People from both political parties came together in the halls of Congress and voted overwhelmingly to ban that practice. It made a lot of sense. My opponent, in that he's out of the mainstream, voted against that law. \nWhat I'm saying is, is that as we promote life and promote a culture of life, surely there are ways we can work together to reduce the number of abortions: continue to promote adoption laws -- it's a great alternative to abortion -- continue to fund and promote maternity group homes; I will continue to promote abstinence programs. \nThe last debate, my opponent said his wife was involved with those programs. That's great. I appreciate that very much. All of us ought to be involved with programs that provide a viable alternative to abortion. \n Mr. President, let's have a new question. It goes to you. And let's get back to economic issues. \nHealth insurance costs have risen over 36 percent over the last four years according to The Washington Post. We're paying more. We're getting less. \nI would like to ask you: Who bears responsibility for this? Is it the government? Is it the insurance companies? Is it the lawyers? Is it the doctors? Is it the administration? \n Gosh, I sure hope it's not the administration. \nThere's a -- no, look, there's a systemic problem. Health-care costs are on the rise because the consumers are not involved in the decision-making process. Most health-care costs are covered by third parties. And therefore, the actual user of health care is not the purchaser of health care. And there's no market forces involved with health care. \nIt's one of the reasons I'm a strong believer in what they call health savings accounts. These are accounts that allow somebody to buy a low-premium, high-deductible catastrophic plan and couple it with tax-free savings. Businesses can contribute, employees can contribute on a contractual basis. But this is a way to make sure people are actually involved with the decision-making process on health care. \nSecondly, I do believe the lawsuits -- I don't believe, I know -- that the lawsuits are causing health-care costs to rise in America. That's why I'm such a strong believer in medical liability reform. \nIn the last debate, my opponent said those lawsuits only caused the cost to go up by 1 percent. Well, he didn't include the defensive practice of medicine that costs the federal government some $28 billion a year and costs our society between $60 billion and $100 billion a year. \nThirdly, one of the reasons why there's still high cost in medicine is because this is -- they don't use any information technology. It's like if you looked at the -- it's the equivalent of the buggy and horse days, compared to other industries here in America. \nAnd so, we've got to introduce high technology into health care. We're beginning to do it. We're changing the language. We want there to be electronic medical records to cut down on error, as well as reduce cost. \nPeople tell me that when the health-care field is fully integrated with information technology, it'll wring some 20 percent of the cost out of the system. \nAnd finally, moving generic drugs to the market quicker. \nAnd so, those are four ways to help control the costs in health care. \n Senator Kerry? \n The reason health-care costs are getting higher, one of the principal reasons is that this administration has stood in the way of common-sense efforts that would have reduced the costs. Let me give you a prime example. \nIn the Senate we passed the right of Americans to import drugs from Canada. But the president and his friends took it out in the House, and now you don't have that right. The president blocked you from the right to have less expensive drugs from Canada. \nWe also wanted Medicare to be able to negotiate bulk purchasing. The VA does that. The VA provides lower-cost drugs to our veterans. We could have done that in Medicare. \nMedicare is paid for by the American taxpayer. Medicare belongs to you. Medicare is for seniors, who many of them are on fixed income, to lift them out of poverty. \nBut rather than help you, the taxpayer, have lower cost, rather than help seniors have less expensive drugs, the president made it illegal -- illegal -- for Medicare to actually go out and bargain for lower prices. \nResult: $139 billion windfall profit to the drug companies coming out of your pockets. That's a large part of your 17 percent increase in Medicare premiums. \nWhen I'm president, I'm sending that back to Congress and we're going to get a real prescription drug benefit. \nNow, we also have people sicker because they don't have health insurance. So whether it's diabetes or cancer, they come to hospitals later and it costs America more. \nWe got to have health care for all Americans. \n Go ahead, Mr. President. \n I think it's important, since he talked about the Medicare plan, has he been in the United States Senate for 20 years? He has no record on reforming of health care. No record at all. \nHe introduced some 300 bills and he's passed five. \nNo record of leadership. \nI came to Washington to solve problems. I was deeply concerned about seniors having to choose between prescription drugs and food. And so I led. And in 2006, our seniors will get a prescription drug coverage in Medicare. \n Senator Kerry? Thirty seconds. \n Once again, the president is misleading America. I've actually passed 56 individual bills that I've personally written and, in addition to that, and not always under my name, there is amendments on certain bills. \nBut more importantly, with respect to the question of no record, I helped write -- I did write, I was one of the original authors of the early childhood health care and the expansion of health care that we did in the middle of the 1990s. And I'm very proud of that. \nSo the president's wrong. \n Let me direct the next question to you, Senator Kerry, and again, let's stay on health care. \nYou have, as you have proposed and as the president has commented on tonight, proposed a massive plan to extend health-care coverage to children. You're also talking about the government picking up a big part of the catastrophic bills that people get at the hospital. \nAnd you have said that you can pay for this by rolling back the president's tax cut on the upper 2 percent. \nYou heard the president say earlier tonight that it's going to cost a whole lot more money than that. \nI'd just ask you, where are you going to get the money? \n Well, two leading national news networks have both said the president's characterization of my health-care plan is incorrect. One called it fiction. The other called it untrue. \nThe fact is that my health-care plan, America, is very simple. It gives you the choice. I don't force you to do anything. It's not a government plan. The government doesn't require you to do anything. You choose your doctor. You choose your plan. \nIf you don't want to take the offer of the plan that I want to put forward, you don't have do. You can keep what you have today, keep a high deductible, keep high premiums, keep a high co-pay, keep low benefits. \nBut I got a better plan. And I don't think a lot of people are going to want to keep what they have today. \nHere's what I do: We take over Medicaid children from the states so that every child in America is covered. And in exchange, if the states want to -- they're not forced to, they can choose to -- they cover individuals up to 300 percent of poverty. It's their choice. \nI think they'll choose it, because it's a net plus of $5 billion to them. \nWe allow you -- if you choose to, you don't have to -- but we give you broader competition to allow you to buy into the same health care plan that senators and congressmen give themselves. If it's good enough for us, it's good enough for every American. I believe that your health care is just as important as any politician in Washington, D. C. \nYou want to buy into it, you can. We give you broader competition. That helps lower prices. \nIn addition to that, we're going to allow people 55 to 64 to buy into Medicare early. And most importantly, we give small business a 50 percent tax credit so that after we lower the costs of health care, they also get, whether they're self-employed or a small business, a lower cost to be able to cover their employees. \nNow, what happens is when you begin to get people covered like that -- for instance in diabetes, if you diagnose diabetes early, you could save $50 billion in the health care system of America by avoiding surgery and dialysis. It works. And I'm going to offer it to America. \n Mr. President? \n In all due respect, I'm not so sure it's credible to quote leading news organizations about -- oh, never mind. Anyway, let me quote the Lewin report. The Lewin report is a group of folks who are not politically affiliated. They analyzed the senator's plan. It cost $1.2 trillion.\nThe Lewin report accurately noted that there are going to be 20 million people, over 20 million people added to government-controlled health care. It would be the largest increase in government health care ever. \nIf you raise the Medicaid to 300 percent, it provides an incentive for small businesses not to provide private insurance to their employees. Why should they insure somebody when the government's going to insure it for them? \nIt's estimated that 8 million people will go from private insurance to government insurance. \nWe have a fundamental difference of opinion. I think government- run health will lead to poor-quality health, will lead to rationing, will lead to less choice. \nOnce a health-care program ends up in a line item in the federal government budget, it leads to more controls. \nAnd just look at other countries that have tried to have federally controlled health care. They have poor-quality health care. \nOur health-care system is the envy of the world because we believe in making sure that the decisions are made by doctors and patients, not by officials in the nation's capital. \n Senator? \n The president just said that government-run health care results in poor quality. \nNow, maybe that explains why he hasn't fully funded the VA and the VA hospital is having trouble and veterans are complaining. Maybe that explains why Medicare patients are complaining about being pushed off of Medicare. He doesn't adequately fund it. \nBut let me just say to America: I am not proposing a government-run program. That's not what I have. I have Blue Cross/Blue Shield. Senators and congressmen have a wide choice. Americans ought to have it too. \n Mr. President? \n Talk about the VA: We've increased VA funding by $22 billion in the four years since I've been president. That's twice the amount that my predecessor increased VA funding. \nOf course we're meeting our obligation to our veterans, and the veterans know that. \nWe're expanding veterans' health care throughout the country. We're aligning facilities where the veterans live now. Veterans are getting very good health care under my administration, and they will continue to do so during the next four years. \n Mr. President, the next question is to you. We all know that Social Security is running out of money, and it has to be fixed. You have proposed to fix it by letting people put some of the money collected to pay benefits into private savings accounts. But the critics are saying that's going to mean finding $1 trillion over the next 10 years to continue paying benefits as those accounts are being set up. \nSo where do you get the money? Are you going to have to increase the deficit by that much over 10 years? \n First, let me make sure that every senior listening today understands that when we're talking about reforming Social Security, that they'll still get their checks. \nI remember the 2000 campaign, people said if George W. gets elected, your check will be taken away. Well, people got their checks, and they'll continue to get their checks. \nThere is a problem for our youngsters, a real problem. And if we don't act today, the problem will be valued in the trillions. And so I think we need to think differently. We'll honor our commitment to our seniors. But for our children and our grandchildren, we need to have a different strategy. \nAnd recognizing that, I called together a group of our fellow citizens to study the issue. It was a committee chaired by the late Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan of New York, a Democrat. And they came up with a variety of ideas for people to look at. \nI believe that younger workers ought to be allowed to take some of their own money and put it in a personal savings account, because I understand that they need to get better rates of return than the rates of return being given in the current Social Security trust. \nAnd the compounding rate of interest effect will make it more likely that the Social Security system is solvent for our children and our grandchildren. I will work with Republicans and Democrats. It'll be a vital issue in my second term. It is an issue that I am willing to take on, and so I'll bring Republicans and Democrats together. \nAnd we're of course going to have to consider the costs. But I want to warn my fellow citizens: The cost of doing nothing, the cost of saying the current system is OK, far exceeds the costs of trying to make sure we save the system for our children. \n Senator Kerry? \n You just heard the president say that young people ought to be able to take money out of Social Security and put it in their own accounts. \nNow, my fellow Americans, that's an invitation to disaster. \nThe CBO said very clearly that if you were to adopt the president's plan, there would be a $2 trillion hole in Social Security, because today's workers pay in to the system for today's retirees. And the CBO said -- that's the Congressional Budget Office; it's bipartisan -- they said that there would have to be a cut in benefits of 25 percent to 40 percent. \nNow, the president has never explained to America, ever, hasn't done it tonight, where does the transitional money, that $2 trillion, come from? \nHe's already got $3 trillion, according to The Washington Post, of expenses that he's put on the line from his convention and the promises of this campaign, none of which are paid for. Not one of them are paid for. \nThe fact is that the president is driving the largest deficits in American history. He's broken the pay-as-you-go rules. \nI have a record of fighting for fiscal responsibility. In 1985, I was one of the first Democrats -- broke with my party. We balanced the budget in the '90s. We paid down the debt for two years. \nAnd that's what we're going to do. We're going to protect Social Security. I will not privatize it. I will not cut the benefits. And we're going to be fiscally responsible. And we will take care of Social Security. \n Let me just stay on Social Security with a new question for Senator Kerry, because, Senator Kerry, you have just said you will not cut benefits. \nAlan Greenspan, the chairman of the Federal Reserve, says there's no way that Social Security can pay retirees what we have promised them unless we recalibrate. \nWhat he's suggesting, we're going to cut benefits or we're going to have to raise the retirement age. We may have to take some other reform. But if you've just said, you've promised no changes, does that mean you're just going to leave this as a problem, another problem for our children to solve? \n Not at all. Absolutely not, Bob. This is the same thing we heard -- remember, I appeared on \"Meet the Press\" with Tim Russert in 1990-something. We heard the same thing. We fixed it. \nIn fact, we put together a $5. 6 trillion surplus in the '90s that was for the purpose of saving Social Security. If you take the tax cut that the president of the United States has given -- President Bush gave to Americans in the top 1 percent of America -- just that tax cut that went to the top 1 percent of America would have saved Social Security until the year 2075. \nThe president decided to give it to the wealthiest Americans in a tax cut. Now, Alan Greenspan, who I think has done a terrific job in monetary policy, supports the president's tax cut. I don't. I support it for the middle class, not that part of it that goes to people earning more than $200,000 a year. \nAnd when I roll it back and we invest in the things that I have talked about to move our economy, we're going to grow sufficiently, it would begin to cut the deficit in half, and we get back to where we were at the end of the 1990s when we balanced the budget and paid down the debt of this country. \nNow, we can do that. \nNow, if later on after a period of time we find that Social Security is in trouble, we'll pull together the top experts of the country. We'll do exactly what we did in the 1990s. And we'll make whatever adjustment is necessary. \nBut the first and most important thing is to start creating jobs in America. The jobs the president is creating pay $9,000 less than the jobs that we're losing. And this is the first president in 72 years to preside over an economy in America that has lost jobs, 1. 6 million jobs. \nEleven other presidents -- six Democrats and five Republicans -- had wars, had recessions, had great difficulties; none of them lost jobs the way this president has. \nI have a plan to put America back to work. And if we're fiscally responsible and put America back to work, we're going to fix Social Security. \n Mr. President? \n He forgot to tell you he voted to tax Social Security benefits more than one time. I didn't hear any plan to fix Social Security. I heard more of the same. \nHe talks about middle-class tax cuts. That's exactly where the tax cuts went. Most of the tax cuts went to low- and middle-income Americans. And now the tax code is more fair. Twenty percent of the upper-income people pay about 80 percent of the taxes in America today because of how we structured the tax cuts. People listening out there know the benefits of the tax cuts we passed. If you have a child, you got tax relief. If you're married, you got tax relief. If you pay any tax at all, you got tax relief. All of which was opposed by my opponent. \nAnd the tax relief was important to spur consumption and investment to get us out of this recession. \nPeople need to remember: Six months prior to my arrival, the stock market started to go down. And it was one of the largest declines in our history. And then we had a recession and we got attacked, which cost us 1 million jobs. \nBut we acted. I led the Congress. We passed tax relief. And now this economy is growing. We added 1. 9 million new jobs over the last 13 months. \nSure, there's more work to do. But the way to make sure our economy grows is not to raise taxes on small-business owners. It's not to increase the scope of the federal government. It's to make sure we have fiscal sanity and keep taxes low. \n Let's go to a new question, Mr. President. \nI got more e-mail this week on this question than any other question. And it is about immigration. \nI'm told that at least 8,000 people cross our borders illegally every day. Some people believe this is a security issue, as you know. Some believe it's an economic issue. Some see it as a human-rights issue. \nHow do you see it? And what do we need to do about it? \n I see it as a serious problem. I see it as a security issue, I see it as an economic issue, and I see it as a human-rights issue. \nWe're increasing the border security of the United States. We've got 1,000 more Border Patrol agents on the southern border. \nWe're using new equipment. We're using unmanned vehicles to spot people coming across. \nAnd we'll continue to do so over the next four years. It's a subject I'm very familiar with. After all, I was a border governor for a while. \nMany people are coming to this country for economic reasons. They're coming here to work. If you can make 50 cents in the heart of Mexico, for example, or make $5 here in America, $5. 15, you're going to come here if you're worth your salt, if you want to put food on the table for your families. And that's what's happening. \nAnd so in order to take pressure off the borders, in order to make the borders more secure, I believe there ought to be a temporary worker card that allows a willing worker and a willing employer to mate up, so long as there's not an American willing to do that job, to join up in order to be able to fulfill the employers' needs. \nThat has the benefit of making sure our employers aren't breaking the law as they try to fill their workforce needs. It makes sure that the people coming across the border are humanely treated, that they're not kept in the shadows of our society, that they're able to go back and forth to see their families. See, the card, it'll have a period of time attached to it. \nIt also means it takes pressure off the border. If somebody is coming here to work with a card, it means they're not going to have to sneak across the border. It means our border patrol will be more likely to be able to focus on doing their job. \nNow, it's very important for our citizens to also know that I don't believe we ought to have amnesty. I don't think we ought to reward illegal behavior. There are plenty of people standing in line to become a citizen. And we ought not to crowd these people ahead of them in line. \nIf they want to become a citizen, they can stand in line, too. \nAnd here is where my opponent and I differ. In September 2003, he supported amnesty for illegal aliens. \n Time's up. \nSenator? \n Let me just answer one part of the last question quickly, and then I'll come to immigration. \nThe American middle-class family isn't making it right now, Bob. And what the president said about the tax cuts has been wiped out by the increase in health care, the increase in gasoline, the increase in tuitions, the increase in prescription drugs. \nThe fact is, the take-home pay of a typical American family as a share of national income is lower than it's been since 1929. And the take-home pay of the richest . 1 percent of Americans is the highest it's been since 1928. \nUnder President Bush, the middle class has seen their tax burden go up and the wealthiest's tax burden has gone down. Now that's wrong. \nNow, with respect to immigration reform, the president broke his promise on immigration reform. He said he would reform it. Four years later he is now promising another plan. \nHere's what I'll do: Number one, the borders are more leaking today than they were before 9/11. The fact is, we haven't done what we need to do to toughen up our borders, and I will. \nSecondly, we need a guest-worker program, but if it's all we have, it's not going to solve the problem. \nThe second thing we need is to crack down on illegal hiring. It's against the law in the United States to hire people illegally, and we ought to be enforcing that law properly. \nAnd thirdly, we need an earned-legalization program for people who have been here for a long time, stayed out of trouble, got a job, paid their taxes, and their kids are American. We got to start moving them toward full citizenship, out of the shadows. SCHIEFFER: Do you want to respond, Mr. President? \n Well, to say that the borders are not as protected as they were prior to September the 11th shows he doesn't know the borders. They're much better protected today than they were when I was the governor of Texas. \nWe have much more manpower and much more equipment there. \nHe just doesn't understand how the borders work, evidently, to say that. That is an outrageous claim. \nAnd we'll continue to protect our borders. We're continuing to increase manpower and equipment. \n Senator? \n Four thousand people a day are coming across the border. \nThe fact is that we now have people from the Middle East, allegedly, coming across the border. \nAnd we're not doing what we ought to do in terms of the technology. We have iris-identification technology. We have thumbprint, fingerprint technology today. We can know who the people are, that they're really the people they say they are when they cross the border. \nWe could speed it up. There are huge delays. \nThe fact is our borders are not as secure as they ought to be, and I'll make them secure. \n Next question to you, Senator Kerry. \nThe gap between rich and poor is growing wider. More people are dropping into poverty. Yet the minimum wage has been stuck at, what, $5. 15 an hour now for about seven years. Is it time to raise it? \n Well, I'm glad you raised that question. \nIt's long overdue time to raise the minimum wage. \nAnd, America, this is one of those issues that separates the president and myself. \nWe have fought to try to raise the minimum wage in the last years. But the Republican leadership of the House and Senate won't even let us have a vote on it. We're not allowed to vote on it. They don't want to raise the minimum wage. The minimum wage is the lowest minimum wage value it has been in our nation in 50 years. \nIf we raise the minimum wage, which I will do over several years to $7 an hour, 9. 2 million women who are trying to raise their families would earn another $3,800 a year. \nThe president has denied 9. 2 million women $3,800 a year, but he doesn't hesitate to fight for $136,000 to a millionaire. \nOne percent of America got $89 billion last year in a tax cut, but people working hard, playing by the rules, trying to take care of their kids, family values, that we're supposed to value so much in America -- I'm tired of politicians who talk about family values and don't value families. \nWhat we need to do is raise the minimum wage. We also need to hold on to equal pay. Women work for 76 cents on the dollar for the same work that men do. That's not right in America. \nAnd we had an initiative that we were working on to raise women's pay. They've cut it off. They've stopped it. They don't enforce these kinds of things. \nNow, I think that it's a matter of fundamental right that if we raise the minimum wage, 15 million Americans would be positively affected. We'd put money into the hands of people who work hard, who obey the rules, who play for the American dream. \nAnd if we did that, we'd have more consumption ability in America, which is what we need right now in order to kick our economy into gear. I will fight tooth and nail to pass the minimum wage. \n Actually, Mitch McConnell had a minimum-wage plan that I supported that would have increased the minimum wage. \nBut let me talk about what's really important for the worker you're referring to. And that's to make sure the education system works. It's to make sure we raise standards. \nListen, the No Child Left Behind Act is really a jobs act when you think about it. The No Child Left Behind Act says, \"We'll raise standards. We'll increase federal spending. But in return for extra spending, we now want people to measure -- states and local jurisdictions to measure to show us whether or not a child can read or write or add and subtract. \"\nYou cannot solve a problem unless you diagnose the problem. And we weren't diagnosing problems. And therefore just kids were being shuffled through the school. \nAnd guess who would get shuffled through? Children whose parents wouldn't speak English as a first language just move through. \nMany inner-city kids just move through. We've stopped that practice now by measuring early. And when we find a problem, we spend extra money to correct it. \nI remember a lady in Houston, Texas, told me, \"Reading is the new civil right,\" and she's right. In order to make sure people have jobs for the 21st century, we've got to get it right in the education system, and we're beginning to close a minority achievement gap now. \nYou see, we'll never be able to compete in the 21st century unless we have an education system that doesn't quit on children, an education system that raises standards, an education that makes sure there's excellence in every classroom. \n Mr. President, I want to go back to something Senator Kerry said earlier tonight and ask a follow-up of my own. He said -- and this will be a new question to you -- he said that you had never said whether you would like to overturn Roe v. Wade. So I'd ask you directly, would you like to? \n What he's asking me is, will I have a litmus test for my judges? And the answer is, no, I will not have a litmus test. I will pick judges who will interpret the Constitution, but I'll have no litmus test. \n Senator Kerry, you'd like to respond? \n Is that a new question or a 30-second question? \n That's a new question for Senator -- for President Bush. \n Which time limit. . . \n You have 90 seconds. \n Thank you very much. \nWell, again, the president didn't answer the question. \nI'll answer it straight to America. I'm not going to appoint a judge to the Court who's going to undo a constitutional right, whether it's the First Amendment, or the Fifth Amendment, or some other right that's given under our courts today -- under the Constitution. And I believe that the right of choice is a constitutional right. \nSo I don't intend to see it undone. \nClearly, the president wants to leave in ambivalence or intends to undo it. \nBut let me go a step further. We have a long distance yet to travel in terms of fairness in America. I don't know how you can govern in this country when you look at New York City and you see that 50 percent of the black males there are unemployed, when you see 40 percent of Hispanic children -- of black children in some cities -- dropping out of high school. \nAnd yet the president who talks about No Child Left Behind refused to fully fund -- by $28 billion -- that particular program so you can make a difference in the lives of those young people. \nNow right here in Arizona, that difference would have been $131 million to the state of Arizona to help its kids be able to have better education and to lift the property tax burden from its citizens. The president reneged on his promise to fund No Child Left Behind. \nHe'll tell you he's raised the money, and he has. But he didn't put in what he promised, and that makes a difference in the lives of our children. \n Yes, sir? \n Two things. One, he clearly has a litmus test for his judges, which I disagree with. \nAnd secondly, only a liberal senator from Massachusetts would say that a 49 percent increase in funding for education was not enough. \nWe've increased funds. But more importantly, we've reformed the system to make sure that we solve problems early, before they're too late. \nHe talked about the unemployed. Absolutely we've got to make sure they get educated. \nHe talked about children whose parents don't speak English as a first language? Absolutely we've got to make sure they get educated. \nAnd that's what the No Child Left Behind Act does. \n Senator? \n You don't measure it by a percentage increase. Mr. President, you measure it by whether you're getting the job done. \nFive hundred thousand kids lost after-school programs because of your budget. \nNow, that's not in my gut. That's not in my value system, and certainly not so that the wealthiest people in America can walk away with another tax cut. \n$89 billion last year to the top 1 percent of Americans, but kids lost their after-school programs. You be the judge. \n All right, let's go to another question. And it is to Senator Kerry. \nYou have two minutes, sir. \nSenator, the last debate, President Bush said he did not favor a draft. You agreed with him. But our National Guard and Reserve forces are being severely strained because many of them are being held beyond their enlistments. Some of them say that it's a back-door draft. \nIs there any relief that could be offered to these brave Americans and their families? \nIf you became president, Senator Kerry, what would you do about this situation of holding National Guard and Reservists for these extended periods of time and these repeated call-ups that they're now facing? \n Well, I think the fact that they're facing these repeated call-ups, some of them two and three deployments, and there's a stop- loss policy that prevents people from being able to get out when their time was up, is a reflection of the bad judgment this president exercised in how he has engaged in the world and deployed our forces. \nOur military is overextended. Nine out of 10 active-duty Army divisions are either in Iraq, going to Iraq or have come back from Iraq. One way or the other, they're wrapped up in it. \nNow, I've proposed adding two active-duty divisions to the armed forces of the United States -- one combat, one support. \nIn addition, I'm going to double the number of Special Forces so that we can fight a more effective war on terror, with less pressure on the National Guard and Reserve. And what I would like to do is see the National Guard and Reserve be deployed differently here in our own country. There's much we can do with them with respect to homeland security. We ought to be doing that. And that would relieve an enormous amount of pressure. \nBut the most important thing to relieve the pressure on all of the armed forces is frankly to run a foreign policy that recognizes that America is strongest when we are working with real alliances, when we are sharing the burdens of the world by working through our statesmanship at the highest levels and our diplomacy to bring other nations to our side. \nI've said it before, I say it again: I believe the president broke faith to the American people in the way that he took this nation to war. He said he would work through a real alliance. He said in Cincinnati we would plan carefully, we would take every precaution. Well, we didn't. And the result is our forces today are overextended. \nThe fact is that he did not choose to go to war as a last result. And America now is paying, already $120 billion, up to $200 billion before we're finished and much more probably. And that is the result of this president taking his eye off of Osama bin Laden. \n Mr. President? \n The best way to take the pressure off our troops is to succeed in Iraq, is to train Iraqis so they can do the hard work of democracy, is to give them a chance to defend their country, which is precisely what we're doing. We'll have 125,000 troops trained by the end of this year. \nI remember going on an airplane in Bangor, Maine, to say thanks to the reservists and Guard that were headed overseas from Tennessee and North Carolina, Georgia. Some of them had been there before. \nThe people I talked to their spirits were high. They didn't view their service as a back-door draft. They viewed their service as an opportunity to serve their country. \nMy opponent, the senator, talks about foreign policy. \nIn our first debate he proposed America pass a global test. In order to defend ourselves, we'd have to get international approval. That's one of the major differences we have about defending our country. \nI'll work with allies. I'll work with friends. We'll continue to build strong coalitions. But I will never turn over our national- security decisions to leaders of other countries. \nWe'll be resolute, we'll be strong, and we'll wage a comprehensive war against the terrorists. \n Senator? \n I have never suggested a test where we turn over our security to any nation. In fact, I've said the opposite: I will never turn the security of the United States over to any nation. No nation will ever have a veto over us. \nBut I think it makes sense, I think most Americans in their guts know, that we ought to pass a sort of truth standard. That's how you gain legitimacy with your own countrypeople, and that's how you gain legitimacy in the world. \nBut I'll never fail to protect the United States of America. \n In 1990, there was a vast coalition put together to run Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait. The international community, the international world said this is the right thing to do, but when it came time to authorize the use of force on the Senate floor, my opponent voted against the use of force. \nApparently you can't pass any test under his vision of the world. \n Mr. President, new question, two minutes. \nYou said that if Congress would vote to extend the ban on assault weapons, that you'd sign the legislation, but you did nothing to encourage the Congress to extend it. Why not? \n Actually, I made my intentions -- made my views clear. I did think we ought to extend the assault weapons ban, and was told the fact that the bill was never going to move, because Republicans and Democrats were against the assault weapon ban, people of both parties. I believe law-abiding citizens ought to be able to own a gun. I believe in background checks at gun shows or anywhere to make sure that guns don't get in the hands of people that shouldn't have them. \nBut the best way to protect our citizens from guns is to prosecute those who commit crimes with guns. And that's why early in my administration I called the attorney general and the U. S. attorneys and said: Put together a task force all around the country to prosecute those who commit crimes with guns. And the prosecutions are up by about 68 percent -- I believe -- is the number. \nNeighborhoods are safer when we crack down on people who commit crimes with guns. \nTo me, that's the best way to secure America. \n Senator? \n I believe it was a failure of presidential leadership not to reauthorize the assault weapons ban. \nI am a hunter. I'm a gun owner. I've been a hunter since I was a kid, 12, 13 years old. And I respect the Second Amendment and I will not tamper with the Second Amendment. \nBut I'll tell you this. I'm also a former law enforcement officer. I ran one of the largest district attorney's offices in America, one of the ten largest. I put people behind bars for the rest of their life. I've broken up organized crime. I know something about prosecuting. \nAnd most of the law enforcement agencies in America wanted that assault weapons ban. They don't want to go into a drug bust and be facing an AK-47. \nI was hunting in Iowa last year with a sheriff from one of the counties there, and he pointed to a house in back of us, and said, \"See the house over? We just did a drug bust a week earlier, and the guy we arrested had an AK-47 lying on the bed right beside him. \"\nBecause of the president's decision today, law enforcement officers will walk into a place that will be more dangerous. Terrorists can now come into America and go to a gun show and, without even a background check, buy an assault weapon today. \nAnd that's what Osama bin Laden's handbook said, because we captured it in Afghanistan. It encouraged them to do it. \nSo I believe America's less safe. \nIf Tom DeLay or someone in the House said to me, \"Sorry, we don't have the votes,\" I'd have said, \"Then we're going to have a fight. \"\nAnd I'd have taken it out to the country and I'd have had every law enforcement officer in the country visit those congressmen. We'd have won what Bill Clinton won. \n Let's go to a new question. For you, Senator Kerry, two minutes.\nAffirmative action: Do you see a need for affirmative action programs, or have we moved far enough along that we no longer need to use race and gender as a factor in school admissions and federal and state contracts and so on? \n No, Bob, regrettably, we have not moved far enough along. \nAnd I regret to say that this administration has even blocked steps that could help us move further along. I'll give you an example. \nI served on the Small Business Committee for a long time. I was chairman of it once. Now I'm the senior Democrat on it. We used to -- you know, we have a goal there for minority set-aside programs, to try to encourage ownership in the country. They don't reach those goals. They don't even fight to reach those goals. They've tried to undo them. \nThe fact is that in too many parts of our country, we still have discrimination. And affirmative action is not just something that applies to people of color. Some people have a mistaken view of it in America. It also is with respect to women, it's with respect to other efforts to try to reach out and be inclusive in our country. \nI think that we have a long way to go, regrettably. If you look at what's happened -- we've made progress, I want to say that at the same time. \nDuring the Clinton years, as you may recall, there was a fight over affirmative action. And there were many people, like myself, who opposed quotas, who felt there were places where it was overreaching. So we had a policy called \"Mend it, don't end it. \"We fixed it. \nAnd we fixed it for a reason: because there are too many people still in this country who feel the stark resistance of racism, and so we have a distance to travel. As president, I will make certain we travel it. \nNow, let me just share something. This president is the first president ever, I think, not to meet with the NAACP. This is a president who hasn't met with the Black Congressional Caucus. This is a president who has not met with the civil rights leadership of our country. \nIf a president doesn't reach out and bring people in and be inclusive, then how are we going to get over those barriers? I see that as part of my job as president, and I'll make my best effort to do it. \n Mr. President? \n Well, first of all, it is just not true that I haven't met with the Black Congressional Caucus. I met with the Black Congressional Caucus at the White House. \nAnd secondly, like my opponent, I don't agree we ought to have quotas. I agree, we shouldn't have quotas. \nBut we ought to have an aggressive effort to make sure people are educated, to make sure when they get out of high school there's Pell Grants available for them, which is what we've done. We've expanded Pell Grants by a million students. \nDo you realize today in America, we spend $73 billion to help 10 million low- and middle-income families better afford college? \nThat's the access I believe is necessary, is to make sure every child learns to read, write, add and subtract early, to be able to build on that education by going to college so they can start their careers with a college diploma. \nI believe the best way to help our small businesses is not only through small-business loans, which we have increased since I've been the president of the United States, but to unbundle government contracts so people have a chance to be able to bid and receive a contract to help get their business going. \nMinority ownership of businesses are up, because we created an environment for the entrepreneurial spirit to be strong. \nI believe part of a hopeful society is one in which somebody owns something. Today in America more minorities own a home than ever before. And that's hopeful, and that's positive. \n Mr. President, let's go to a new question. \nYou were asked before the invasion, or after the invasion, of Iraq if you'd checked with your dad. And I believe, I don't remember the quote exactly, but I believe you said you had checked with a higher authority. \nI would like to ask you, what part does your faith play on your policy decisions? \nFirst, my faith plays a lot -- a big part in my life. And that's, when I was answering that question, what I was really saying to the person was that I pray a lot. And I do. \nAnd my faith is a very -- it's very personal. I pray for strength. I pray for wisdom. I pray for our troops in harm's way. I pray for my family. I pray for my little girls. \nBut I'm mindful in a free society that people can worship if they want to or not. You're equally an American if you choose to worship an almighty and if you choose not to. \nIf you're a Christian, Jew or Muslim, you're equally an American. That's the great thing about America, is the right to worship the way you see fit. \nPrayer and religion sustain me. I receive calmness in the storms of the presidency. \nI love the fact that people pray for me and my family all around the country. Somebody asked me one time, \"Well, how do you know? \"I said, \"I just feel it. \"\nReligion is an important part. I never want to impose my religion on anybody else. \nBut when I make decisions, I stand on principle, and the principles are derived from who I am. \nI believe we ought to love our neighbor like we love ourself, as manifested in public policy through the faith-based initiative where we've unleashed the armies of compassion to help heal people who hurt. \nI believe that God wants everybody to be free. That's what I believe. \nAnd that's been part of my foreign policy. In Afghanistan, I believe that the freedom there is a gift from the Almighty. And I can't tell you how encouraged I am to see freedom on the march. \nAnd so my principles that I make decisions on are a part of me, and religion is a part of me. \n Senator Kerry? \n Well, I respect everything that the president has said and certainly respect his faith. I think it's important and I share it. I think that he just said that freedom is a gift from the Almighty. \nEverything is a gift from the Almighty. And as I measure the words of the Bible -- and we all do; different people measure different things -- the Koran, the Torah, or, you know, Native Americans who gave me a blessing the other day had their own special sense of connectedness to a higher being. And people all find their ways to express it. \nI was taught -- I went to a church school and I was taught that the two greatest commandments are: Love the Lord, your God, with all your mind, your body and your soul, and love your neighbor as yourself. And frankly, I think we have a lot more loving of our neighbor to do in this country and on this planet. \nWe have a separate and unequal school system in the United States of America. There's one for the people who have, and there's one for the people who don't have. And we're struggling with that today. \nAnd the president and I have a difference of opinion about how we live out our sense of our faith. \nI talked about it earlier when I talked about the works and faith without works being dead. \nI think we've got a lot more work to do. And as president, I will always respect everybody's right to practice religion as they choose -- or not to practice -- because that's part of America. \n Senator Kerry, after 9/11 -- and this is a new question for you -- it seemed to me that the country came together as I've never seen it come together since World War II. But some of that seems to have melted away. I think it's fair to say we've become pretty polarized, perhaps because of the political season. \nBut if you were elected president, or whoever is elected president, will you set a priority in trying to bring the nation back together? Or what would be your attitude on that? \n Very much so. \nLet me pay a compliment to the president, if I may. I think in those days after 9/11, I thought the president did a terrific job. And I really was moved, as well as impressed, by the speech that he gave to the Congress. \nAnd I think the hug Tom Daschle gave him at that moment was about as genuine a sense of there being no Democrats, no Republicans, we were all just Americans. That's where we were. \nThat's not where we are today. I regret to say that the president who called himself a uniter, not a divider, is now presiding over the most divided America in the recent memory of our country. I've never seen such ideological squabbles in the Congress of the United States. I've never seen members of a party locked out of meetings the way they're locked out today. \nWe have to change that. And as president, I am committed to changing that. I don't care if the idea comes from the other side or this side. I think we have to come together and work to change it. \nAnd I've done that. Over 20 years in the United States Senate, I've worked with John McCain, who's sitting here, I've worked with other colleagues. I've reached across the aisle. I've tried to find the common ground, because that's what makes us strong as Americans. \nAnd if Americans trust me with the presidency, I can pledge to you, we will have the most significant effort, openly -- not secret meetings in the White House with special interests, not ideologically driven efforts to push people aside -- but a genuine effort to try to restore America's hope and possibilities by bringing people together. \nAnd one of the ways we're going to do it is, I'm going to work with my friend, John McCain, to further campaign finance reform so we get these incredible amounts of money out of the system and open it up to average people, so America is really represented by the people who make up America. \n Mr. President? \n My biggest disappointment in Washington is how partisan the town is. I had a record of working with Republicans and Democrats as the governor of Texas, and I was hopeful I'd be able to do the same thing. \nAnd we made good progress early on. The No Child Left Behind Act, incredibly enough, was good work between me and my administration and people like Senator Ted Kennedy. \nAnd we worked together with Democrats to relieve the tax burden on the middle class and all who pay taxes in order to make sure this economy continues to grow. \nBut Washington is a tough town. And the way I view it is there's a lot of entrenched special interests there, people who are, you know, on one side of the issue or another and they spend enormous sums of money and they convince different senators to taut their way or different congressmen to talk about their issue, and they dig in. \nI'll continue, in the four years, to continue to try to work to do so. \nMy opponent said this is a bitterly divided time. Pretty divided in the 2000 election. So in other words, it's pretty divided during the 1990s as well. \nWe're just in a period -- we've got to work to bring it -- my opponent keeps mentioning John McCain, and I'm glad he did. John McCain is for me for president because he understands I have the right view in winning the war on terror and that my plan will succeed in Iraq. And my opponent has got a plan of retreat and defeat in Iraq. \n We've come, gentlemen, to our last question. And it occurred to me as I came to this debate tonight that the three of us share something. All three of us are surrounded by very strong women. We're all married to strong women. Each of us have two daughters that make us very proud. \nI'd like to ask each of you, what is the most important thing you've learned from these strong women? \n To listen to them. \n\nTo stand up straight and not scowl. \n\nI love the strong women around me. I can't tell you how much I love my wife and our daughters. \nI am -- you know it's really interesting. I tell the people on the campaign trail, when I asked Laura to marry me, she said, \"Fine, just so long as I never have to give a speech. \"I said, \"OK, you've got a deal. \"Fortunately, she didn't hold me to that deal. And she's out campaigning along with our girls. And she speaks English a lot better than I do. I think people understand what she's saying. \nBut they see a compassionate, strong, great first lady in Laura Bush. I can't tell you how lucky I am. When I met her in the backyard at Joe and Jan O'Neill's in Midland, Texas, it was the classic backyard barbecue. O'Neill said, \"Come on over. I think you'll find somebody who might interest you. \"So I said all right. Bopped over there. There was only four of us there. And not only did she interest me, I guess you would say it was love at first sight. \n Senator Kerry? \n Well, I guess the president and you and I are three examples of lucky people who married up. \n\nAnd some would say maybe me more so than others.\n\nBut I can take it. \n\nCan I say, if I could just say a word about a woman that you didn't ask about, but my mom passed away a couple years ago, just before I was deciding to run. And she was in the hospital, and I went in to talk to her and tell her what I was thinking of doing. \nAnd she looked at me from her hospital bed and she just looked at me and she said, \"Remember: integrity, integrity, integrity. \"Those are the three words that she left me with. \nAnd my daughters and my wife are people who just are filled with that sense of what's right, what's wrong. \nThey also kick me around. They keep me honest. They don't let me get away with anything. I can sometimes take myself too seriously. They surely don't let me do that. \nAnd I'm blessed, as I think the president is blessed, as I said last time. I've watched him with the first lady, who I admire a great deal, and his daughters. He's a great father. And I think we're both very lucky. \n Well, gentlemen, that brings us to the closing statements. \nSenator Kerry, I believe you're first. \n My fellow Americans, as you heard from Bob Schieffer a moment ago, America is being tested by division. More than ever, we need to be united as a country. \nAnd, like Franklin Roosevelt, I don't care whether an idea is a Republican idea or a Democrat idea. I just care whether it works for America and whether it's going to make us stronger. \nThese are dangerous times. I believe I offer tested, strong leadership that can calm the waters of the troubled world. And I believe that we can together do things that are within the grasp of Americans. \nWe can lift our schools up. We can create jobs that pay more than the jobs we're losing overseas. We can have health care for all Americans. We can further the cause of equality in our nation. \nLet me just make it clear: I will never allow any country to have a veto over our security. Just as I fought for our country as a young man, with the same passion I will fight to defend this nation that I love. \nAnd, with faith in God and with conviction in the mission of America, I believe that we can reach higher. I believe we can do better. \nI think the greatest possibilities of our country, our dreams and our hopes, are out there just waiting for us to grab onto them. And I ask you to embark on that journey with me. \nI ask you for your trust. I ask you for your help. I ask you to allow me the privilege of leading this great nation of ours, of helping us to be stronger here at home and to be respected again in the world and, most of all, to be safer forever. \nThank you. Goodnight. And God bless the United States of America. \n Mr. President? \n In the Oval Office, there's a painting by a friend of Laura and mine named -- by Tom Lee. And it's a West Texas painting, a painting of a mountain scene. \nAnd he said this about it. \nHe said, \"Sarah and I live on the east side of the mountain. It's the sunrise side, not the sunset side. It's the side to see the day that is coming, not to see the day that is gone. \"\nI love the optimism in that painting, because that's how I feel about America. And we've been through a lot together during the last 3 3/4 years. We've come through a recession, a stock market decline, an attack on our country. \nAnd yet, because of the hard work of the American people and good policies, this economy is growing. Over the next four years, we'll make sure the economy continues to grow. \nWe reformed our school system, and now there's an achievement gap in America that's beginning to close. Over the next four years, we'll continue to insist on excellence in every classroom in America so that our children have a chance to realize the great promise of America. \nOver the next four years, we'll continue to work to make sure health care is available and affordable. \nOver the next four years, we'll continue to rally the armies of compassion, to help heal the hurt that exists in some of our country's neighborhoods. \nI'm optimistic that we'll win the war on terror, but I understand it requires firm resolve and clear purpose. We must never waver in the face of this enemy that -- these ideologues of hate. \nAnd as we pursue the enemy wherever it exists, we'll also spread freedom and liberty. We got great faith in the ability of liberty to transform societies, to convert a hostile world to a peaceful world. \nMy hope for America is a prosperous America, a hopeful America and a safer world. \nI want to thank you for listening tonight. \nI'm asking for your vote. \nGod bless you. \n Thank you, Mr. President. \nThank you, Senator Kerry. \nWell, that brings these debates to a close, but the campaign goes on. \nI want to wish both of you the very best of luck between now and Election Day. \nThat's it for us from Arizona State University in Tempe, Arizona. I'm Bob Schieffer at CBS News. \nGoodnight, everyone. \n \n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "spoken", "name": "3rd_Bush-Kerry", "class": "debate-transcript"}
{"subclass": null, "text_id": "spoken/face-to-face/Bed012", "text": "\n \n\n \n\n\n \n\n \n So I guess this is more or less now just to get you up to date, Johno.\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n This is what, uh,\n \n \n This is a meeting for me. \n \n \n um,\n \n \n Eva,\n \n \n Bhaskara, and I did.\n \n \n Did you add more stuff to it? later?\n \n \n \n \n \n Um. Why?\n \n \n Um.\n \n \n \n \n \n I don't know.\n \n \n There were, like, the - you know, and all that stuff. But.\n \n \n I thought you - you said you were adding stuff but I don't know.\n \n \n \n \n \n Uh, no. This is -\n \n \n \n \n \n Um,\n \n \n Ha! \n \n \n Very nice.\n \n \n Um, so we thought that,\n \n \n \n \n \n We can write up\n \n \n uh,\n \n \n an element,\n \n \n and - for each of the situation\n \n \n nodes that we observed in the Bayes-net?\n \n \n So.\n \n \n What's the situation like at the entity that is mentioned? if we know anything about it? Is it under construction?\n \n \n Or is it\n \n \n on fire or something happening to it? Or is it stable?\n \n \n and so forth, going all the way\n \n \n um,\n \n \n f-\n \n \n through Parking,\n \n \n Location, Hotel, Car, Restroom,\n \n \n \n \n \n Riots, Fairs, Strikes, or\n \n \n Disasters.\n \n \n So is - This is - A situation are - is all the things which can be happening right now? \n \n \n Or, what is the situation\n \n \n type?\n \n \n That's basically just specifying the - the input for the - w- what's\n \n \n Oh, I see y- Why are you specifying it in X_M_L?\n \n \n Um.\n \n \n Just because it forces us to be specific about the values \n \n \n here?\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n And, also, I mean, this is a - what the input is going to be. Right?\n \n \n So, we will, uh - \n \n \n This is a schema. This is -\n \n \n Well, yeah. I just don't know if this is th- l- what the - Does - This is what Java Bayes takes? as a\n \n \n No, because I mean if we -\n \n \n Bayes-net spec?\n \n \n I mean we're sure gonna interface to -\n \n \n We're gonna get an X_M_L document from somewhere. \n \n \n Right? And that X_M_L document will say\n \n \n \"We are able to - We were able to observe that w- the element,\n \n \n um, of the Location that the car is near. \"\n \n \n So that's gonna be - \n \n \n Um.\n \n \n So this is the situational context, everything in it. Is that what Situation is short for, shi- situational context?\n \n \n Yep.\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n So this is just,\n \n \n again, a- an X_M_L schemata which defines a set of possible, uh, permissible X_M_L\n \n \n \n \n \n structures,\n \n \n which we view as input into the Bayes-net.\n \n \n Right?\n \n \n And then we can r- uh\n \n \n possibly run one of them uh\n \n \n transformations?\n \n \n That put it into the format that the Bayes n- or Java Bayes or whatever wants?\n \n \n Yea- Are you talking - are you talking about the - the structure? \n \n \n Well it -\n \n \n I mean when you observe a node.\n \n \n When you - when you say \n \n \n the input to the v- Java Bayes, \n \n \n Um-hmm.\n \n \n it takes a certain format, right?\n \n \n Which I don't think is this. \n \n \n Although I don't know.\n \n \n No, it's certainly not this.\n \n \n Nuh. \n \n \n So you could just - Couldn't you just run a -\n \n \n X_S_L . Yeah.\n \n \n Yeah. \n \n \n To convert it into the Java Bayes for- format?\n \n \n Yep.\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n That's -\n \n \n That's no problem, but\n \n \n I even think that, um -\n \n \n I mean, once - Once you have this sort of as - running as a module -\n \n \n Right? What you want is -\n \n \n You wanna say, \"O_K, give me the posterior probabilities of the Go-there node,\n \n \n when this is happening.\"\n \n \n Right? When the person said this, the car is there, it's raining, and this is happening.\n \n \n And with this you can specify the - what's happening in the situation, and what's happening\n \n \n with the user. \n \n \n So we get -\n \n \n After we are done, through the Situation we get the User Vector.\n \n \n So, this is a -\n \n \n So this is just a specification of all the possible inputs?\n \n \n Yep.\n \n \n And, \n \n \n all the possible outputs, too. \n \n \n O_K. \n \n \n So, we have, um,\n \n \n for example, the, uh, Go-there decision node\n \n \n which has two\n \n \n elements, going-there\n \n \n and its posterior probability,\n \n \n and not-going-there and its posterior probability,\n \n \n because the output is always gonna be\n \n \n all the decision nodes and all the - the - a- all the posterior probabilities for all the values.\n \n \n And then we would just look at the, eh, Struct that we wanna look at in terms of if - if we're only asking about one of the -\n \n \n So like, if I'm just interested in the going-there node,\n \n \n I would just pull that information out of the Struct\n \n \n that gets return- that would - that Java Bayes would output?\n \n \n Um,\n \n \n pretty much, yes, but\n \n \n \n \n \n I think it's a little bit more complex.\n \n \n As, if I understand it correctly, it always gives you all the posterior probabilities for all the values of all decision nodes.\n \n \n So, when we\n \n \n input something, \n \n \n we always get the, uh, posterior probabilities for all of these. Right?\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n So there is no way of telling it t-\n \n \n not to tell us about the EVA values.\n \n \n Yeah, wait I agree, that's - yeah, use - oh, uh Yeah, O_K.\n \n \n So - so we get this whole\n \n \n list of - of, um,\n \n \n things, and the question is\n \n \n what to do with it,\n \n \n what to hand on,\n \n \n how to interpret it,\n \n \n in a sense.\n \n \n So y- you said if you - \"I'm only interested in whether he wants to go there or not\", then I just look at that node, \n \n \n look which one -\n \n \n Look at that Struct in the output, right?\n \n \n Yep.\n \n \n Look at that Struct in the - the output, even though\n \n \n I wouldn't call it a \"Struct\". But.\n \n \n Well i- well, it's an X_M_L Structure that's being res- returned, right?\n \n \n Oh. Mm-hmm.\n \n \n So every part of a structure is a \"Struct\".\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n Yeah, I just uh - I just was - abbreviated it\n \n \n to Struct in my head, and\n \n \n \n \n \n started going with that.\n \n \n That element or object,\n \n \n I would say.\n \n \n Not a C_Struct. That's not what I was trying to k- though yeah.\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n And, um,\n \n \n the reason is -\n \n \n why I think it's a little bit more complex or why - why we can even think about it as an interesting problem in and of itself is -\n \n \n Um.\n \n \n So.\n \n \n The, uh -\n \n \n Let's look at an example. \n \n \n Well, w- wouldn't we just take the structure that's outputted\n \n \n and then run another transformation on it, that would just dump the one that we wanted out?\n \n \n \n \n \n Yeah. w- We'd need to prune. \n \n \n Right?\n \n \n \n \n \n Throw things away.\n \n \n Well, actually, you don't even need to do that with X_M_L. D- Can't you just look at one specific -\n \n \n No-\n \n \n \n \n \n Yeah, exactly. The - \n \n \n Xerxes \n \n \n allows you to say, u- \"Just give me the value of that, and that, and that.\"\n \n \n But, we don't really know what we're interested in before we look at the complete - at - at the overall result.\n \n \n So the person said,\n \n \n um,\n \n \n \"Where is X_?\" and so,\n \n \n \n \n \n we want to know,\n \n \n um,\n \n \n is - Does he want\n \n \n info?\n \n \n o- on this? or know the location? \n \n \n Or does he want to go there?\n \n \n Let's assume this is our - our question.\n \n \n Sure.\n \n \n Nuh? \n \n \n So.\n \n \n Um.\n \n \n \n \n \n Do this in Perl. \n \n \n \n \n \n So we get -\n \n \n \n \n \n O_K .\n \n \n Let's assume this is the output.\n \n \n So. \n \n \n We should con- be able to conclude from that that -\n \n \n I mean. It's always gonna give us a value of\n \n \n how likely we think i- it is that he wants to go there and doesn't want to go there,\n \n \n or how likely it is that he wants to\n \n \n get information. \n \n \n But, maybe w- we should just reverse this to make it a little bit more delicate. \n \n \n So, does he wanna know where it is? or does he wanna go there?\n \n \n He wants to know where it is.\n \n \n \n \n \n Right.\n \n \n I - I - I tend to agree. And if it's -\n \n \n If -\n \n \n Well now, y- I mean, you could -\n \n \n And i- if there's sort of a clear winner here, \n \n \n and, um -\n \n \n and this is pretty, uh -\n \n \n indifferent,\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n then we - then we might conclude that he actually wants to\n \n \n just know where, uh t- uh, he does want to go there.\n \n \n Uh, out of curiosity, is there a reason why we wouldn't\n \n \n combine\n \n \n these three nodes?\n \n \n into one smaller subnet? \n \n \n that would just\n \n \n basically be \n \n \n the question for - We have \"where is X_?\" is the question, right? That would just be Info-on or Location?\n \n \n Based upon -\n \n \n Or Go-there. A lot of people ask that, if they actually just wanna go there.\n \n \n People come up to you on campus and say, \"Where's the library?\"\n \n \n You're gonna say - y- you're gonna say, g- \"Go down that way.\"\n \n \n You're not gonna say \"It's - It's five hundred yards away from you\" or \"It's north of you\", or -\n \n \n \"it's located -\"\n \n \n Well, I mean - But the - there's - So you just have three\n \n \n decisions for the final node, that would link thes- these three nodes in the net together.\n \n \n Um.\n \n \n I don't know whether I understand what you mean. But. Again, in this -\n \n \n Given this input, we, also in some situations, may wanna\n \n \n postulate an opinion whether\n \n \n that person wants to go there now \n \n \n the nicest way, use a cab, or so s-\n \n \n wants to know it - wants to know where it is because he wants something fixed there, because he wants to\n \n \n visit t- it or whatever.\n \n \n So, it - n- I mean - a- All I'm saying is,\n \n \n whatever our input is, we're always gonna get the full\n \n \n output.\n \n \n And some -\n \n \n some things\n \n \n will always be sort of\n \n \n too - not significant enough.\n \n \n Wha-\n \n \n Or i- or i- it'll be tight. You won't - it'll be hard to decide. But I mean, I guess - I guess the thing is,\n \n \n Yep.\n \n \n uh,\n \n \n this is another, smaller, case of reasoning in the case of an uncertainty, which makes me think Bayes-net should be\n \n \n the way to solve \n \n \n these things. So if you had - If for every construction, right?\n \n \n Oh!\n \n \n you could say, \"Well, there - Here's the Where-Is construction.\"\n \n \n And for the Where-Is construction, we know we need to l- look at this node,\n \n \n \n \n \n that merges these three things together\n \n \n Mm-hmm.\n \n \n as for th- to decide the response. And since we have a finite number of constructions that we can deal with, we could have a finite number of nodes.\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n Say, if we had to y- deal with arbitrary language, it wouldn't make any sense to do that, because\n \n \n Mm-hmm.\n \n \n there'd be no way to generate the nodes for every possible sentence.\n \n \n Mm-hmm.\n \n \n But since we can only deal with a finite amount of stuff - \n \n \n So, basically, the idea is to f-\n \n \n to feed the output of that\n \n \n \n \n \n belief-net into another belief-net.\n \n \n Yeah, so basically take these three things and then put them into another belief-net.\n \n \n But, why - why - why only those three? Why not the whol-\n \n \n Well, I mean, d- For the Where-Is question.\n \n \n So we'd have a node for the Where-Is question.\n \n \n Yeah. But we believe that all the decision nodes are - can be relevant for the Where-Is,\n \n \n and the Where - How-do-I-get-to or the Tell-me-something-about.\n \n \n \n \n \n Is food not allowed in here? \n \n \n You can come in if you want.\n \n \n Yes, it is allowed.\n \n \n \n \n \n As long as y- you're not wearing your h- your h- headphones. \n \n \n Alright. Just a second. I'll be back.\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n Well, I do- I - See, I don't know if this is a good idea or not. I'm just throwing it out.\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n But uh, it seems like we could have - I mea- or uh we could put all of the- all of the r- information that could also be relevant \n \n \n into the Where-Is node answer\n \n \n Mm-hmm.\n \n \n Yep.\n \n \n node\n \n \n thing\n \n \n stuff.\n \n \n And uh -\n \n \n \n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n I mean -\n \n \n \n \n \n Let's not forget we're gonna get some very strong input from these sub- dis- from these discourse things, right?\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n So.\n \n \n \"Tell me the location of X_.\"\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n Nuh? \n \n \n Or \"Where is X_ located\n \n \n \n \n \n We u-\n \n \n at?\" Nuh? \n \n \n Yeah, I know, but the Bayes-net would be able to - The weights on the -\n \n \n on the nodes in the Bayes-net would be able to do all that, wouldn't it?\n \n \n Mm-hmm.\n \n \n Here's a k-\n \n \n \n \n \n Oh! \n \n \n Oh, I'll wait until you're plugged in.\n \n \n Oh, don't sit there. Sit here. \n \n \n You know how you don't like that one. It's O_K.\n \n \n Oh, do I not? \n \n \n That's the weird one.\n \n \n That's the one that's painful. That hurts. It hurts so bad.\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n I'm h- I'm happy that they're recording that.\n \n \n That headphone. The headphone that you have to put on backwards, with the little - little thing - and the little - little foam block on it?\n \n \n \n \n \n It's a painful, painful microphone.\n \n \n I think it's th- called \"the Crown\". \n \n \n \n \n \n The crown? \n \n \n What?\n \n \n Yeah, versus \"the Sony\".\n \n \n \n \n \n The Crown?\n \n \n Is that the actual name?\n \n \n Mm-hmm.\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n The manufacturer.\n \n \n I don't see a manufacturer on it.\n \n \n You w-\n \n \n Oh, wait, here it is. h- This thingy.\n \n \n Yeah, it's \"The Crown\".\n \n \n The crown of pain!\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n Yes.\n \n \n You're on-line?\n \n \n Are you - are your mike o- Is your mike on? O_K.\n \n \n Indeed.\n \n \n So you've been working with these guys? You know what's going on?\n \n \n Yes, I have.\n \n \n \n \n \n And, I do.\n \n \n Yeah, alright. s- So where are we?\n \n \n Excellent! \n \n \n We're discussing this.\n \n \n I don't think it can handle French, but anyway.\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n So.\n \n \n Assume we have something coming in. A person says, \"Where is X_?\", and we get a certain - We have a Situation vector and a User vector and everything is fine? \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n An- an- and - and our - and our -\n \n \n Did you just sti- Did you just stick the m- the - the - the microphone actually in the tea? \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n No. \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n And, um,\n \n \n \n \n \n I'm not drinking tea. What are you talking about?\n \n \n Oh, yeah. Sorry.\n \n \n let's just assume our Bayes-net just has three decision nodes for the time being.\n \n \n These three, he wants to know something about it, he wants to know where it is, he wants to go there.\n \n \n \n \n \n In terms of, these would be wha- how we would answer the question Where-Is, right?\n \n \n We u-\n \n \n \n \n \n This is - i- That's what you s- it seemed like, explained it to me earlier w-\n \n \n We - we're - we wanna know how to answer the question \"Where is X_?\"\n \n \n Yeah, but, mmm.\n \n \n \n \n \n Yeah. \n \n \n No, I can - I can do the Timing node in here, too, and say \"O_K.\"\n \n \n Well, yeah, but in the s- uh, let's just deal with the s- the simple case of we're not worrying about timing or anything.\n \n \n We just want to know how we should answer \"Where is X_?\"\n \n \n \n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n And, um,\n \n \n O_K, and,\n \n \n Go-there has two values, right?, Go-there and not-Go-there. Let's assume those are the posterior probabilities of that. \n \n \n Mm-hmm.\n \n \n Info-on has True or False and Location. So, he wants to know something about it, and he wants to know something - he wants to know Where-it-is,\n \n \n \n \n \n Excuse me. \n \n \n has these values.\n \n \n \n \n \n And, um,\n \n \n Oh, I see why we can't do that.\n \n \n And, um, in this case we would probably all agree that\n \n \n \n \n \n he wants to go there. Our belief-net thinks he wants to go there, right? In the, uh, whatever, if we have something like\n \n \n Yeah. \n \n \n Mm-hmm.\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n this here,\n \n \n and\n \n \n this like that and maybe here also some -\n \n \n You should probably \n \n \n make them out of - Yeah.\n \n \n Well, it-\n \n \n something like that, \n \n \n then we would guess, \"Aha! He, our belief-net, \n \n \n \n \n \n has s- stronger beliefs that he wants to know where it is, than actually wants to go there.\"\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n Right?\n \n \n That it - Doesn't this assume, though, that they're evenly weighted?\n \n \n True.\n \n \n Like -\n \n \n I guess they are evenly weighted.\n \n \n The different decision nodes, you mean?\n \n \n Yeah, the Go-there, the Info-on, and the Location?\n \n \n Well, d- yeah, this is making the assumption.\n \n \n Yes.\n \n \n Like -\n \n \n What do you mean by \"differently weighted\"? They don't feed into anything really anymore. \n \n \n Or I jus-\n \n \n But I mean, why do we -\n \n \n \n \n \n Le-\n \n \n If we trusted the Go-there node more th- much more than we trusted the other ones, then we would conclude, even in this situation, that he wanted to go there.\n \n \n So, in that sense, we weight them equally\n \n \n O_K. Makes sense. Yeah.\n \n \n right now.\n \n \n So the- But I guess the- k- the question -\n \n \n But -\n \n \n that I was as- er- wondering or maybe Robert was proposing to me\n \n \n is -\n \n \n How do we d- make the decision on - as to - which one to listen to?\n \n \n Yeah, so, the final d- decision is the combination of these three. So again, it's - it's some kind of, uh -\n \n \n Bayes-net. \n \n \n Yeah, sure.\n \n \n \n \n \n O_K so, then, the question i- So then my question is t- to you then, would be -\n \n \n \n \n \n So is the only r- reason we can make all these smaller Bayes-nets, because we know we can only deal with a finite set of constructions?\n \n \n Cuz oth- If we're just taking arbitrary language in, we couldn't have a node for every possible question, you know?\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n A decision node for every possible question, you mean?\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n Well, I - like, in the case of - Yeah.\n \n \n In the ca- Any piece of language, we wouldn't be able to answer it with this system, b- if we just h-\n \n \n Cuz we wouldn't have the correct node. Basically, w- what you're s- proposing is a n- Where-Is node, right?\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n And - and if we - And if someone - says, you know, uh, something in Mandarin\n \n \n So is -\n \n \n \n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n to the system, we'd- wouldn't know which node to look at to answer that question, right?\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n Mmm?\n \n \n So, but - but if we have a finite - What?\n \n \n I don't see your point. What - what - what I am thinking, or what\n \n \n we're about to propose here is\n \n \n we're always gonna get the whole list of\n \n \n values and their posterior probabilities.\n \n \n And now we need an expert system or belief-net or something that interprets that,\n \n \n that looks at all the\n \n \n values and says,\n \n \n \"The winner is\n \n \n Timing. Now, go there.\"\n \n \n \n \n \n \"Uh, go there, Timing, now.\"\n \n \n \n \n \n Or, \"The winner is Info-on,\n \n \n Function-Off.\"\n \n \n So, he wants to know something about it, and what it does.\n \n \n Nuh? \n \n \n Uh, regardless of - of - of the input. Wh- Regardle-\n \n \n Yeah, but-\n \n \n But how does the expert - but how does the expert system\n \n \n know - how- who- which one to declare the winner, if it doesn't know the question it is, and how that question should be answered?\n \n \n Based on the k- what the question was, so what the discourse, the ontology, the situation and the user model gave us, we came up with these values for these decisions.\n \n \n Yeah I know. But how do we weight what we get out?\n \n \n As, which one i- Which ones are important?\n \n \n So my i- So, if we were to it with a Bayes-net, we'd have to have a node -\n \n \n \n \n \n for every question that we knew how to deal with,\n \n \n that would take all of the inputs and weight them appropriately for that question.\n \n \n Mm-hmm.\n \n \n Does that make sense?\n \n \n Yay, nay?\n \n \n Um, I mean, are you saying that, what happens if you try to scale this up to the situation, or are we just dealing with arbitrary language?\n \n \n We -\n \n \n Is that your point?\n \n \n Well, no. I - I guess my question is,\n \n \n Is the reason that we can make a node f- or - O_K. So, lemme\n \n \n see if I'm confused. Are we going to make a node for every question? Does that make sense? - Or not. \n \n \n For every question? Like -\n \n \n Every construction.\n \n \n Hmm. \n \n \n I don't - Not necessarily, I would think. I mean, it's not based on constructions, it's based on things like, uh, there's gonna be a node for Go-there or not, and there's gonna be a node for Enter, View, Approach.\n \n \n Wel-\n \n \n W- O_K.\n \n \n So, someone asked a question.\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n How do we decide\n \n \n how to answer it?\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n Well, look at -\n \n \n \n \n \n look -\n \n \n Face yourself with this pr- question. You get this -\n \n \n You'll have - y- This is what you get.\n \n \n And now you have to make a decision. What do we think?\n \n \n What does this tell us?\n \n \n \n \n \n And not knowing what was asked, and what happened, and whether the person was a tourist or a local, because all of these factors have presumably already gone into making these\n \n \n posterior probabilities.\n \n \n Yeah. \n \n \n What - what we need is a - just a mechanism that says,\n \n \n \"Aha!\n \n \n There is -\"\n \n \n I just don't think a \"winner-take-all\" type of thing is the -\n \n \n I mean, in general, like, we won't just have those three, right? We'll have, uh, like, many, many nodes.\n \n \n Yep.\n \n \n So we have to, like - So that it's no longer possible to just look at the nodes themselves and figure out what the person is trying to say.\n \n \n Because there are interdependencies, right?\n \n \n The uh -\n \n \n Uh, no. So if - if\n \n \n for example, the Go-there posterior possibility is so high, um,\n \n \n uh, w- if it's - if it has reached - reached a certain height, then\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n all of this becomes irrelevant. So. If - even if - if the function or the history or something is\n \n \n scoring pretty good on the true node, true value -\n \n \n Wel-\n \n \n \n \n \n I don't know about that, cuz that would suggest that - I mean -\n \n \n He wants to go there and know something about it?\n \n \n Do they have to be mutual-\n \n \n Yeah. Do they have to be mutually exclusive?\n \n \n I think to some extent they are. \n \n \n Or maybe they're not. \n \n \n Cuz I, uh - The way you describe what they meant, they weren't mutu- uh, they didn't seem mutually exclusive to me.\n \n \n Well, if he doesn't want to go there,\n \n \n even if the Enter \n \n \n posterior proba- So.\n \n \n Wel- \n \n \n Go-there is No.\n \n \n Enter is High, and Info-on is High.\n \n \n Well, yeah, just out of the other three, though, that you had in the -\n \n \n Hmm?\n \n \n those three nodes. The- d- They didn't seem like they were mutually exclusive.\n \n \n No, there's - No. But -\n \n \n It's through the -\n \n \n So th- s- so, yeah, but some - So, some things would drop out, and some things would still be important.\n \n \n \n \n \n Mm-hmm.\n \n \n But I guess what's confusing me is, if we have a Bayes-net to deal w- another Bayes-net to deal with this stuff,\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n Mm-hmm.\n \n \n you know,\n \n \n \n \n \n uh,\n \n \n is the only reason - O_K, so,\n \n \n I guess,\n \n \n if we have a Ba- another Bayes-net to deal with this stuff, the only r- reason \n \n \n we can design it is cuz we know\n \n \n what each question is asking?\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n I think that's true.\n \n \n And then, so, the only reason - way we would know what question he's asking is based upon - Oh, so if - Let's say I had a construction parser, and I plug this in, I would know what each construction - the communicative\n \n \n intent of the construction was\n \n \n Mm-hmm.\n \n \n and so then I would know how to weight the nodes appropriately, in response.\n \n \n So no matter what they said, if I could map it onto a Where-Is construction,\n \n \n Ge-\n \n \n Mm-hmm.\n \n \n I could say, \"ah!\n \n \n well the- the intent, here, was Where-Is\",\n \n \n O_K, right.\n \n \n and I could look at those.\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n Yes, I mean. Sure. You do need to know - I mean, to have that kind of information.\n \n \n Hmm.\n \n \n Yeah, I'm also agreeing that a simple\n \n \n pru- \n \n \n Take the ones where we have a clear winner.\n \n \n Forget about the ones where it's all sort of\n \n \n middle ground.\n \n \n Prune those out and just hand over the ones where we have a winner. \n \n \n Yeah, because that would be the easiest way.\n \n \n We just compose as an output an X_M_L mes- message that says.\n \n \n \"Go there now.\"\n \n \n \"Enter\n \n \n historical information.\"\n \n \n And not care whether that's consistent with anything.\n \n \n Right?\n \n \n \n \n \n But in this case if we say, \" definitely he doesn't want to go there. He just wants to know\n \n \n where it is.\"\n \n \n or let's call this - this \"Look-At-H-\" \n \n \n He wants to know something about the history of. So he said,\n \n \n \"Tell me something about the history of that.\"\n \n \n Now, the e- But for some reason the Endpoint-Approach\n \n \n gets a really high score, too.\n \n \n We can't expect this to be sort of at O_ point \n \n \n three, three, three, O_ point, three, three, three, O_ point, three, three, three. Right? \n \n \n Somebody needs to zap that.\n \n \n You know?\n \n \n Or\n \n \n know -\n \n \n There needs to be some knowledge that -\n \n \n We -\n \n \n Yeah, but, the Bayes-net that would merge -\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n I just realized that I had my hand in between my mouth and my micr- er, my- and my microphone. \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n So then,\n \n \n the Bayes-net that would merge\n \n \n there, that would make the decision between Go-there, Info-on, and Location,\n \n \n would have a node to tell you which one of those three you wanted, and based upon that node, then you would look at the other stuff.\n \n \n \n \n \n Yep.\n \n \n I mean, it- i-\n \n \n Yep.\n \n \n Does that make sense?\n \n \n Yep. It's sort of one of those, that's - It's more like a decision tree,\n \n \n if - if you want.\n \n \n You first look o- at the lowball ones, and then -\n \n \n Yeah, i-\n \n \n Yeah, I didn't intend to say that every possible - O_K.\n \n \n There was a confusion there, k- I didn't intend to say every possible thing should go into the Bayes-net, because some of the things aren't relevant in the Bayes-net\n \n \n for a specific question.\n \n \n \n \n \n Like the Endpoint \n \n \n is not necessarily relevant in the Bayes-net for Where-Is until after you've decided whether you wanna go there or not.\n \n \n Mm-hmm.\n \n \n Right.\n \n \n \n \n \n Show us the way, Bhaskara.\n \n \n I guess the other thing is that um, yeah. I mean, when you're asked a specific question and you don't even -\n \n \n Like, if you're asked a Where-Is question, you may not even look - like, ask for the posterior probability of the, uh, E_V_A node, right?\n \n \n Cuz, that's what - I mean, in the Bayes-net you always ask for the posterior probability of a specific node. So, I mean,\n \n \n you may not even bother to compute things you don't need.\n \n \n Um.\n \n \n Aren't we always computing all? \n \n \n No.\n \n \n You can compute, uh, the posterior probability of one subset of the nodes, given\n \n \n some other nodes, but\n \n \n totally ignore some other nodes, also.\n \n \n Basically, things you ignore get marginalized over.\n \n \n Yeah, but that's - that's just shifting the problem.\n \n \n Then you would have to make a decision, \"O_K, if it's a Where-Is question, which\n \n \n Yeah. So you have to make -\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n decision nodes do I query?\"\n \n \n Yes.\n \n \n That's un- \n \n \n But I would think that's what you want to do. Right?\n \n \n Mmm. \n \n \n Well, eventually, you still have to pick out which ones you look at. So it's pretty much the same problem, isn't it?\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n Yeah - it's - it's - it's apples and oranges. Nuh?\n \n \n \n \n \n I mean, maybe it does make a difference in terms of performance,\n \n \n computational time. So either you\n \n \n Mm-hmm.\n \n \n always have it compute all the posterior possibilities for all the values for all nodes, and then prune\n \n \n Mmm.\n \n \n the ones you think that are\n \n \n irrelevant,\n \n \n or you just make a p-\n \n \n \n \n \n a priori \n \n \n estimate of what you think might be relevant and query those.\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n So basically, you'd have a decision tree query, Go-there.\n \n \n \n \n \n If k- if that's false, query this one. If that's true, query that one. And just basically do a binary search through the - ? \n \n \n I don't know if it would necessarily be that, uh, complicated. But, uh -\n \n \n I mean, it w- \n \n \n Well, in the case of Go-there, it would be. In the case - Cuz if you needed an- If y- If Go-there was true, you'd wanna know what endpoint\n \n \n was. And if it was false, you'd wanna d- look at\n \n \n either Lo- Income Info-on or History.\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n That's true, I guess. Yeah, so, in a way you would have that.\n \n \n Also, I'm somewhat boggled by that Hugin software.\n \n \n O_K, why's that?\n \n \n I can't figure out how to get the\n \n \n probabilities into it.\n \n \n Like, I'd look at -\n \n \n Mm-hmm.\n \n \n It's somewha- It's boggling me.\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n Alright.\n \n \n Well, hopefully it's fixable.\n \n \n Ju-\n \n \n \n \n \n Oh yeah, yeah. I d- I just think I haven't\n \n \n It's - there's a - \n \n \n \n \n \n figured out what - the terms in Hugin mean, versus what Java Bayes terms are.\n \n \n \n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n \n \n \n Um, by the way, are - Do we know whether Jerry and Nancy are coming? Or - ? \n \n \n So we can figure this out.\n \n \n They should come when they're done their stuff, basically, whenever that is.\n \n \n So.\n \n \n What d- what do they need to do left? \n \n \n Um,\n \n \n I guess,\n \n \n Jerry needs to enter marks, but I don't know if he's gonna do that now or later.\n \n \n But, uh, if he's gonna enter marks, it's gonna take him awhile, I guess, and he won't be here.\n \n \n And what's Nancy doing?\n \n \n Nancy? Um, she was sorta finishing up the, uh,\n \n \n calculation of marks and assigning of grades, but I don't know if she should be here.\n \n \n Well - or, she should be free after that, so -\n \n \n assuming she's coming to this meeting.\n \n \n I don't know if she knows about it.\n \n \n She's on the email list, right?\n \n \n Is she? O_K.\n \n \n Mm-hmm. \n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n Because \n \n \n \n \n \n basically, what -\n \n \n where we also have decided, prior to\n \n \n this meeting is that\n \n \n we would have a rerun of the three of us sitting together \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n sometime this week again \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n and finish up the, uh, values\n \n \n of\n \n \n this.\n \n \n So we have,\n \n \n \n \n \n uh -\n \n \n Believe it or not, we have all the bottom ones here. \n \n \n \n \n \n Well, I -\n \n \n You added a bunch of nodes, for - ? \n \n \n Yep.\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n We - we - we have - Actually what we have is this line.\n \n \n \n \n \n Uh, what do the, uh,\n \n \n Right?\n \n \n structures\n \n \n Hmm?\n \n \n do? So the - the - the -\n \n \n For instance, this Location node's got two inputs,\n \n \n that one you -\n \n \n Four inputs.\n \n \n Hmm.\n \n \n Four. \n \n \n Those are - The bottom things are inputs, also.\n \n \n Oh, I see.\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n \n \n \n O_K, that was-\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n \n \n \n That makes a lot more sense to me now.\n \n \n Yep. \n \n \n Cuz I thought it was like, that\n \n \n one in\n \n \n Stuart's book about,\n \n \n you know, the -\n \n \n Alarm in the dog?\n \n \n U- Yeah.\n \n \n Yeah. \n \n \n Or the earthquake and the alarm.\n \n \n \n \n \n Sorry. Yeah, I'm confusing two. \n \n \n Yeah, there's a dog one, too, but that's in Java Bayes, isn't it?\n \n \n Right.\n \n \n Maybe.\n \n \n But there's something about\n \n \n bowel problems or something with the dog.\n \n \n \n \n \n Yeah. \n \n \n And we have all the\n \n \n \n \n \n top ones,\n \n \n all the ones to which no arrows are pointing. \n \n \n What we're missing are the -\n \n \n these, where arrows are pointing, where we're combining\n \n \n top ones.\n \n \n So, we have to come up with values for this, and\n \n \n this, this, this, and so forth. \n \n \n And maybe\n \n \n just fiddle around with it a little bit more. \n \n \n And, um.\n \n \n And then it's just, uh,\n \n \n edges,\n \n \n many of\n \n \n edges. \n \n \n And, um, we won't meet next Monday.\n \n \n So.\n \n \n Cuz of Memorial Day?\n \n \n Yep.\n \n \n We'll meet next Tuesday, I guess.\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n When's Jerry leaving for -\n \n \n Italia? \n \n \n On - on Friday. \n \n \n Which Friday?\n \n \n This - this Friday.\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n Oh. This Friday?\n \n \n Ugh. \n \n \n This Friday.\n \n \n As in, four days?\n \n \n Yep.\n \n \n Or, three days?\n \n \n Is he - How long is he gone for?\n \n \n Two weeks.\n \n \n Italy, huh? \n \n \n What's, uh - what's there?\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n Well, it's a country.\n \n \n Buildings.\n \n \n People.\n \n \n But it's not a conference or anything. He's just visiting.\n \n \n Pasta.\n \n \n Hmm?\n \n \n Right.\n \n \n Just visiting.\n \n \n Vacation.\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n It's a pretty nice place,\n \n \n \n \n \n in my brief, uh, encounter with it.\n \n \n Do you guys - Oh, yeah. So. Part of what we actually want to do is sort of schedule out what we want to surprise him with when - when he comes back. \n \n \n Um, so -\n \n \n Oh, I think we should disappoint him.\n \n \n Yeah? You - or have a finished construction parser and a working belief-net, and uh -\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n That wouldn't be disappointing. \n \n \n I think w- we should do absolutely no work\n \n \n \n \n \n for the two weeks that he's gone.\n \n \n Well, that's actually what I had planned, personally. I had - I - I had sort of scheduled out in my mind that you guys do a lot of work, and I do nothing. \n \n \n \n \n \n And then, I sort of -\n \n \n Oh, yeah, that sounds good, too.\n \n \n sort of bask in - in your glory.\n \n \n \n \n \n But, uh, i- do you guys have any vacation plans, because I myself am going to be,\n \n \n um,\n \n \n gone, but\n \n \n this is actually not really important. Just this weekend we're going camping.\n \n \n Yeah, I'm wanna be this - gone this weekend, too. \n \n \n Ah. \n \n \n But we're all going to be here on Tuesday again?\n \n \n Looks like it?\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n O_K, then. Let's meet - meet again next Tuesday.\n \n \n And, um,\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n finish up this Bayes-net.\n \n \n And once we have finished it,\n \n \n I guess we can,\n \n \n um -\n \n \n and that's going to be more just you and me, \n \n \n because Bhaskara is doing probabilistic,\n \n \n recursive,\n \n \n structured,\n \n \n object-oriented,\n \n \n \n \n \n uh,\n \n \n Killing machines! \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n reasoning machines.\n \n \n Yes.\n \n \n And, um -\n \n \n Killing, reasoning. What's the difference?\n \n \n Wait. So you're saying, next Tuesday, is it the whole group meeting, or just\n \n \n Uh.\n \n \n us three working on it, or - or - ? \n \n \n The whole group.\n \n \n And we present our results,\n \n \n our final, \n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n definite -\n \n \n So, when you were saying we need to do a re-run\n \n \n \n \n \n of, like -\n \n \n \n \n \n h- What?\n \n \n What - Like, just working out the rest of the - \n \n \n \n \n \n Yeah. We should do this th- the upcoming days.\n \n \n This week?\n \n \n So, this week, yeah.\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n When you say, \"the whole group\", you mean \n \n \n the four of us, and Keith?\n \n \n \n \n \n And, Ami might. \n \n \n Ami might be here, and it's possible that Nancy'll be here?\n \n \n Yep.\n \n \n So,\n \n \n yeah.\n \n \n Because, th- you know,\n \n \n once we have the belief-net done -\n \n \n You're just gonna have to\n \n \n explain it to me, then, on Tuesday, how it's all gonna work out.\n \n \n You know.\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n We will.\n \n \n O_K. Because then, once we have it sort of up and running, then we can start you know,\n \n \n defining the interfaces and then feed stuff into it and get stuff out of it, and then\n \n \n hook it up to some\n \n \n fake construction\n \n \n parser and -\n \n \n That you will have in about\n \n \n nine months or so. Yeah.\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n \n \n \n And, um,\n \n \n The first bad version'll be done in nine months.\n \n \n Yeah, I can worry about the ontology interface and you can - Keith can worry about the discourse. I mean, this is pretty - Um, I mean, I - I - I hope everybody uh knows that\n \n \n these are just going to be uh dummy values, right?\n \n \n Which - \n \n \n where the -\n \n \n Which ones?\n \n \n S- so - so if the endpoint - if the Go-there is Yes and No, then Go-there- discourse will just be fifty-fifty.\n \n \n Right?\n \n \n Um, what do you mean? If the Go-there says No, then the Go-there is -\n \n \n I don't get it.\n \n \n I don't u- understand.\n \n \n Um.\n \n \n Like, the Go-there depends on all those four things.\n \n \n Yep.\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n But, what are the values of the Go-there- discourse? \n \n \n Well, it depends on the situation. If the discourse is strongly indicating that -\n \n \n Yeah, but, uh, we have no discourse input.\n \n \n Oh, I see. The d- See, uh, specifically in our situation, D_ and O_ are gonna be, uh - Yeah. Sure. So, whatever.\n \n \n So, so far we have -\n \n \n Is that what the Keith node is?\n \n \n \n \n \n Yep.\n \n \n O_K. And you're taking it out? for now? Or - ? \n \n \n Well, this is\n \n \n D_ -\n \n \n O_K, this, I can - I can get it in here.\n \n \n All the D_ 's are -\n \n \n I can get it in here, so th- We have the, uh,\n \n \n um,\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n sk- let's - let's call it \"Keith-Johno\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n node\".\n \n \n Johno? \n \n \n There is\n \n \n an H_ \n \n \n somewhere printed .\n \n \n There you go.\n \n \n Yeah. People have the same problem with my name.\n \n \n Yeah. \n \n \n Oops. \n \n \n \n \n \n And, um,\n \n \n \n \n \n Does th- th- does the H_ go b- before the A_ or after the A_? \n \n \n Oh, in my name? Before the A_.\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n O_K, good. \n \n \n Cuz you kn- When you said people have the same problem, I thought - Cuz my H_ goes after the uh e- e- e- the v-\n \n \n People have the inverse problem with my name.\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n I always have to check, \n \n \n every time y- I send you an email, \n \n \n a past email of yours, to make sure I'm spelling your name correctly.\n \n \n \n \n \n Yeah. \n \n \n That's good.\n \n \n I worry about you.\n \n \n \n \n \n I appreciate that.\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n But, when you abbreviate yourself as the \"Basman\" , you don't use any H_'s.\n \n \n \n \n \n \"Basman\"? Yeah, it's because of the chessplayer named Michael Basman, who is my hero.\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n You're a geek. \n \n \n \n \n \n It's O_ K. I- \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n How do you pronou-\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n How do you pronounce your name?\n \n \n Eva. \n \n \n Eva? \n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n Not Eva? \n \n \n What if I were - What if I were to call you Eva? \n \n \n I'd probably still respond to it.\n \n \n \n \n \n I've had people call me Eva, but I don't know.\n \n \n No, not just Eva, Eva. Like if I u-\n \n \n \n \n \n take the V_ and s- pronounce it like it was a German V_ ?\n \n \n Which is F_.\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n Um, no idea then.\n \n \n Voiced.\n \n \n What?\n \n \n It sounds like an F_. There's also an F_ in German, which is why I -\n \n \n I -\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n Well, it's just the difference between voiced and unvoiced.\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n \n \n \n As long as that's O_ K. I mean, I might slip out and say it accidentally. That's all I'm saying.\n \n \n Um.\n \n \n That's fine. \n \n \n Yeah. It doesn't matter what those nodes are, anyway, because we'll just make the weights \"zero\" for now.\n \n \n Yep.\n \n \n We'll make them zero for now,\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n because it - who - who knows what they come up with,\n \n \n what's gonna come in there.\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n And, um,\n \n \n then\n \n \n should we start on Thursday?\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n And not meet tomorrow?\n \n \n Sure.\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n I'll send an email,\n \n \n make a time suggestion.\n \n \n Wait, maybe it's O_K, so that -\n \n \n that - that we can - that we have one node per construction.\n \n \n Cuz even in people, like, they don't know what you're talking about if you're using some sort of strange construction. \n \n \n Yeah, they would still c- sort of get the closest, best fit.\n \n \n Well, yeah, but I mean, the - uh, I mean, that's what the construction parser would do. Uh, I mean, if you said something completely arbitrary, it would f- find the\n \n \n Mm-hmm.\n \n \n closest construction, right? But if you said something that was completel- er - h- theoretically the construction parser would do that -\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n But if you said something for which there was no construction whatsoever,\n \n \n n- people wouldn't have any idea what you were talking about.\n \n \n Mm-hmm.\n \n \n Like \"Bus dog fried egg.\" I mean.\n \n \n You know.\n \n \n Or, if even something Chinese, for example.\n \n \n \n \n \n Or, something in Mandarin, yeah.\n \n \n Or Cantonese, as the case may be.\n \n \n What do you think about that, Bhaskara?\n \n \n \n \n \n I mean -\n \n \n Well -\n \n \n But how many constructions do - could we possibly have \n \n \n nodes for?\n \n \n In this system, or in r-\n \n \n No, we. Like, when people do this kind of thing.\n \n \n Oh, when p- How many constructions do people have?\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n I have not the slightest idea. \n \n \n Is it considered to be like in - are they considered to be like very, uh, sort of s- abstract things?\n \n \n Every noun is a construction.\n \n \n O_K, so it's like in the thousands.\n \n \n The - Yeah. \n \n \n Any - any form- meaning pair, to my understanding, is a construction.\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n So.\n \n \n And form u- starts at the level of noun - Or actually, maybe even sounds. Yeah.\n \n \n Phoneme. Yep.\n \n \n And goes upwards\n \n \n until you get\n \n \n the ditransitive construction.\n \n \n And then, of course, the c- I guess, maybe there can be the -\n \n \n S-\n \n \n Can there be combinations of the dit-\n \n \n Discourse-level \n \n \n Yeah. \n \n \n constructions.\n \n \n The \"giving a speech\" construction,\n \n \n Rhetorical constructions. Yeah.\n \n \n Yes.\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n But, I mean,\n \n \n you know, you can probably count -\n \n \n count the ways.\n \n \n I mean.\n \n \n It's probab- Yeah, I would s- definitely say it's finite.\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n And at least in compilers, that's all that really matters, as long as your analysis is finite.\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n How's that? How it can be finite, again?\n \n \n \n \n \n Nah, I can't think of a way it would be infinite. \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n Well, you can come up with new constructions.\n \n \n Yeah. \n \n \n If the - if your - if your brain was totally non-deterministic,\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n then perhaps there's a way to get, uh,\n \n \n infin- an infinite number of constructions that you'd have to worry about.\n \n \n But, I mean, in the practical sense, it's impossible.\n \n \n Right. Cuz if we have a fixed number of neurons - ? \n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n So the best-case scenario would be the number of constructions - or, the worst-case scenario is the number of constructions equals the number of neurons.\n \n \n Well, two to the power of the number of neurons.\n \n \n Right.\n \n \n But still \n \n \n finite. \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n No, wait. Not necessarily, is it?\n \n \n We can end the meeting. I just -\n \n \n Can't you use different var- different levels of activation?\n \n \n across, uh -\n \n \n Mm-hmm.\n \n \n lots of different neurons, to specify different values?\n \n \n \n \n \n Um, yeah, but there's, like, a certain level of -\n \n \n \n \n \n There's a bandwidth issue, right? Yeah.\n \n \n Bandw- Yeah, so you can't do better than something.\n \n \n Turn off the mikes. Otherwise it gets really tough for the tr- \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n\n \n\n\n", "mode": "spoken", "name": "Bed012", "class": "face-to-face"}
{"subclass": null, "text_id": "spoken/face-to-face/Bmr021", "text": "\n \n\n \n\n\n \n\n \n If you're popular.\n \n \n One two three four five six - I'm on seven.\n \n \n We're on.\n \n \n It's probably the P_Z_Ms. \n \n \n Yeah. \n \n \n So, I think we pre-crashed, so I think we're O_K.\n \n \n Pre-crashed.\n \n \n So it should be a really short meeting, I hope.\n \n \n Uh, agenda items, number one, I wanna talk - since we were just discussing that - is microphone issues. What the heck are we gonna do about microphones?\n \n \n So uh I got passed on that the E_D_U group doesn't like the\n \n \n \n \n \n Oh.\n \n \n uh, Crown mikes. I do. I l- I think - I find them very comfortable. Uh, but it seems to depend on your head shape.\n \n \n Who does? \n \n \n I do.\n \n \n Yeah, I do too.\n \n \n So you guys need to start going to the E_D_U meetings.\n \n \n I see.\n \n \n Yeah right.\n \n \n They don't work for me very well. I much prefer these.\n \n \n That's right.\n \n \n Yep. Um,\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n Me too.\n \n \n So do I.\n \n \n I prefer these, but I don't mind using those.\n \n \n Right.\n \n \n Th- those are intimidating.\n \n \n So apparently they - they like\n \n \n It has one good effect, that people are trying to get there early because the people who get there early get to pick the mike.\n \n \n \n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n \n \n \n Interesting.\n \n \n People who show up late have to use these. So,\n \n \n um, we should probably get different mikes. So the question is, the easiest thing to do is certainly to just get two more, um,\n \n \n Sony mikes.\n \n \n Just two more of those, um. And that - that's easy and that will certainly work.\n \n \n The other option is to try yet another mike.\n \n \n \n \n \n Find one we like and potentially get six, all the same. \n \n \n I have a question about this.\n \n \n Are the auditory quality - Is it, uh, much different between this kind and the - the fancy ones?\n \n \n Um, these are better, if they're worn correctly.\n \n \n They are.\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n Those are better than the Sonys?\n \n \n Have you -\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n Yeah, definitely.\n \n \n Have you listened to - to them?\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n Yeah?\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n So, I mean, they're not a lot better, but they are a little better.\n \n \n Are they more directional, the microphones, as far as -\n \n \n Um, they're more directional, a little better error - uh, noise cancellation, and also you can really get it right in front of your mouth, like this, whereas that one, to avoid breath noise, you really have to put it at - to the side.\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n So you seem to get better signal with this one.\n \n \n The other thing is, is it just a few people who don't like them in the E_D_U group? Cuz -\n \n \n I don't know, but - you know, in - in sort of random polling \n \n \n L- Liz - Liz said something that leaves me believing that nobody likes them.\n \n \n They are ver-\n \n \n Gosh, cuz I much prefer them, I think they're a whole lot, multiple levels, better.\n \n \n It seems a shame t- to discard - discard them if - if they're better auditory quality and there're only a few people who dis- who object.\n \n \n I mean, so s-\n \n \n Right.\n \n \n Yeah, that's why I was saying if we could just unplug them and plug them in.\n \n \n Well, I mean, that's the other option, is that we could switch the form so it's more obvious the distinction between channel and mike, um, and then get\n \n \n \n \n \n You know, pretty -\n \n \n \n \n \n duplicates. I mean, there's no problem with that. It's just - what -\n \n \n Hmm.\n \n \n Should we get just more Sony ones? I hate the Sony ones.\n \n \n Which ones are those?\n \n \n b- the one you're wearing. Because it - it pinches -\n \n \n The one I'm wearing? Oh.\n \n \n Those.\n \n \n pinches the temples too much.\n \n \n Oh.\n \n \n And -\n \n \n I mean, so, if you wear it sort of around the back, it's not too bad.\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n I hate it because it's hard to adjust the microphone. I mean, I spend all this time fumbling around with it and still not\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n But I -\n \n \n Right.\n \n \n reasonable, yeah.\n \n \n Right.\n \n \n So, I mean, we could try another mike.\n \n \n But then we have the wiring issue, and - So I - I don't know what to do. What do - what do people think?\n \n \n But the problem is again the - the plug, or - ? \n \n \n Wh-\n \n \n The plug is proprietary. So that's why I was saying getting more Sony ones is trivial, because we can just go out and buy them. Any other ones we have to buy them in pigtail versions and get them wired.\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n \n \n \n O_K, n- now may- maybe I just don't know this but, um, are the only two possibilities from Sony the two that we've tried? Or is there another -\n \n \n Yes.\n \n \n So, the only possibilities from Sony are that one and the lapel mike.\n \n \n I see. O_K.\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n Oh, I see.\n \n \n So this isn't Sony. This is Crown. The one we're wearing.\n \n \n Isn't that something. O_K.\n \n \n And so we had these wired for us.\n \n \n Oh. I see. O_K.\n \n \n Well, it s- It seems like right now if - if u- what they're complaining are those, if we just got two more of these - \n \n \n And so -\n \n \n Huh, I remember that now.\n \n \n I think that's probably the right first step is just get two more immediately, and have them available.\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n And then they can just unplug those from the -\n \n \n Right.\n \n \n And just make sure that you write down \"Crown\" or \"Sony\" on the mike number, which I'll change to mike type, or something like that.\n \n \n transmitter.\n \n \n Mm-hmm.\n \n \n Mm-hmm.\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n It might be good to double check at the end of the meeting too, cuz that would be an easy place for, uh, an error in the data.\n \n \n Yep.\n \n \n For it to be forgotten.\n \n \n Well, it'll be me -\n \n \n It'll be whoever's setting up the meeting, who fills out the key file, so\n \n \n O_K, it's just - I'm just thinking that if - it'd be - yeah, but I know - but I mean to have the user fill it out wouldn't be as reliable as have the - \n \n \n It has the same potential for error as everything else.\n \n \n No, no, we definitely would not have the user fill it out. It would be me, Chuck, or Liz, depending on which meeting it is.\n \n \n Good, O_K.\n \n \n Perfect.\n \n \n Perfect, O_K.\n \n \n O_K, so we'll de- definitely go ahead and do that.\n \n \n How much is it just to buy the mike?\n \n \n Couple hundred.\n \n \n Really.\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n Is that more or less than you thought?\n \n \n It depends on how good the mike is.\n \n \n Oh that's way more than I thought. I - yeah.\n \n \n Oh, O_K.\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n For one of these? \n \n \n Well the Crown ones were like two-fifty. I think those are like one-ninety.\n \n \n God.\n \n \n Oops. \n \n \n Wow!\n \n \n But.\n \n \n Is there any educational discount? \n \n \n Yeah right. \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n No. \n \n \n Student discount.\n \n \n Yeah, good mikes are expensive. So.\n \n \n And when I was at Computer Motion we used Shure, the S_M-ten-A's, and I think they were only like eighty bucks or something.\n \n \n Mm-hmm.\n \n \n Yeah, eighty or ninety for the Shures. So.\n \n \n Yeah. But they were - they seemed pretty good.\n \n \n I mean, the Sony ones are expensive because they're proprietary, so they can charge whatever they want. These are expensive because they're quite high quality. So.\n \n \n Oh.\n \n \n Right, right.\n \n \n So we should buzz that out if we send the data to Sony.\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n Ah, come on.\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n We should keep a list of things we're gonna bleep out and the conditions under which - \n \n \n \n \n \n Well, I'm just joking.\n \n \n So, you do not have to bleep that out. I don't mind if Sony knows my opinion. So.\n \n \n \n \n \n Hmm.\n \n \n Um.\n \n \n Also, we're pro- I wanna double check with Morgan, he did say yes before I went to Japan on buying another wireless system so that we can go all wireless, instead of the mix of wired and wireless. And I think that's the right thing to do.\n \n \n So then all those red channels there would become wireless ones?\n \n \n And I'm -\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n Yep.\n \n \n Cool.\n \n \n Yep.\n \n \n Uh-huh. \n \n \n Four more wireless.\n \n \n Um.\n \n \n And also I'm gonna re- probably replace the Andrea mike with a Shure, but I'll test it, uh, sometime today or tomorrow to make sure the Shure one really works, cuz I have an extra Shure in my office.\n \n \n The Andrea mike?\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n Yeah, apparently it's had some problems.\n \n \n That's causing problems, yeah.\n \n \n Which one is the Andrea mike?\n \n \n It was over here sometimes.\n \n \n A wired one?\n \n \n The - yeah a wired one.\n \n \n Yeah. It's uh -\n \n \n Well, if you're gonna go to all wireless,\n \n \n Oh, you mean in the meantime.\n \n \n This one.\n \n \n In the meantime, right, because uh -\n \n \n Ah, I see.\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n \n \n \n it'll - it'll probably take a couple weeks to get it delivered from Sony anyway.\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n I haven't - In the meetings that I recorded s-\n \n \n So -\n \n \n It's always been at most six people, so I've never had to -\n \n \n Oh really? Yeah.\n \n \n Recently I haven't had to used any of the wired ones at all.\n \n \n I guess cuz everyone's been out of town. Probably over the summer it'll be the same cuz it tends to be less,\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n fewer people.\n \n \n Um,\n \n \n File -\n \n \n Uh, done with microphone issues, I think?\n \n \n \n \n \n Should we close the door?\n \n \n If you want.\n \n \n Oh, I'm thinking - I don't know about the acoustics. That's - that's all I was wondering about.\n \n \n And this way we can get a door-slam in the uh - in the transcript file.\n \n \n Yeah. \n \n \n Yeah that's right, we gotta get the obligatory door-slam. \n \n \n \n \n \n Oh well. No- not quite a slam.\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n There's some knocks.\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n Get a special phone for that.\n \n \n Mm-hmm.\n \n \n Uh, the door-slam phone?\n \n \n I guess, right, the door-slam phone. \n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n You have a special phone?\n \n \n No, we could add one.\n \n \n Oh, we could add one, yeah.\n \n \n And then we could have the phone phone,\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n \n \n \n That's an idea.\n \n \n for - for when the phone rings.\n \n \n \n \n \n Um,\n \n \n Uh, file reorganization.\n \n \n This is something we were talking about before I left and saying we should probably wait until after I'm back, and now I'm back, so, we should do that at some point. So we should\n \n \n get ourselves a list of everything we wanna do to reorganize the file structure and anything else.\n \n \n \n \n \n Can I - can I just mention something?\n \n \n Sure.\n \n \n Um, uh, I think the file regards reorganization. Also, um, another issue there is disk space probably, right? Um, so\n \n \n Mm-hmm.\n \n \n I know that the files that you've been cutting up for us\n \n \n f- for the recognition experiments, uh, one way - one really\n \n \n Mm-hmm.\n \n \n brain -\n \n \n uh, brain-dead way of - of - of\n \n \n not causing any trouble, but saving disk space is to, uh, use the s- the\n \n \n Sphere, the NIST, uh, W_encode program.\n \n \n to - to encode, you know, to compress them.\n \n \n Shorten. Is that the same as shorten?\n \n \n Uh, yeah, but it does it s- it happens so that the program that reads the waveforms does the unshortening transparently.\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n Well, O_K, you mean it's built into the S_R_I, because we have the same thing with shorten in the sound tools.\n \n \n So.\n \n \n Y- uh, I guess, but it\n \n \n um,\n \n \n So it's just a question of - of what decompression is built into your tools.\n \n \n Well, it's -\n \n \n Well like - Hhh. \n \n \n It's actually built into the Sphere library that NIST delivers, so - Right.\n \n \n Oh really? I didn't know that.\n \n \n And actually, s- the sound tools don't understand that.\n \n \n For the -\n \n \n At least Feacalc doesn't.\n \n \n At least Feacalc doesn't. So.\n \n \n Well, that's not a sound tool, right.\n \n \n But since - since these files are made to be used with the S_R_I recognizer,\n \n \n uh and the S_R_I front-end uses the Sphere library which in turn does this\n \n \n transparently\n \n \n um,\n \n \n uh, that will be a quick and -\n \n \n quick and easy way to just, uh, get you know, uh, be able to use more -\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n Mm-hmm.\n \n \n The other thing I could do to relieve some of the pressure um is just move everything\n \n \n to my eighteen gig disk, which is local.\n \n \n But that's gonna be only temporary. \n \n \n Well,\n \n \n I mean, I don't know -\n \n \n I mean, you should do that too,\n \n \n probably, but - but as you do that you can also just run the -\n \n \n Yeah, it is kind of a temporary solution.\n \n \n To shorten everything.\n \n \n well, actually, the - th- what you do is you run -\n \n \n Oh, now I have another use for the - \n \n \n The way I recently used it, and there might be better ways - So the program's called W_encode.\n \n \n Mmm.\n \n \n And I think the type, y- you say um\n \n \n I think dash T_ and then there are different -\n \n \n different encoding methods, but if you wanna use the shorten one, you say d- \"minus T_ shorten\",\n \n \n and then the old\n \n \n uh wavefile and the new \n \n \n wavefile, and then - Oops! And then I check, you know, if this works, so, you can use the -\n \n \n the shell \"AND\" operator or something.\n \n \n Then I just move the\n \n \n new wavefile to the,\n \n \n you know, to the old\n \n \n Right.\n \n \n wavefile, and then you have replaced the old one with one that behaves identically as long as your programs that use it know how to\n \n \n Mm-hmm.\n \n \n decode it on the fly.\n \n \n And that -\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n that just saved my butt because I actually was running - On a different experiment, I had\n \n \n segmented -\n \n \n I was processing the whole Switchboard-two corpus, which is two hundred eighty hours of speech,\n \n \n and I was noticing, as I was\n \n \n almost finishing the processing, that I was running out of disk space. \n \n \n Mm-hmm.\n \n \n And - and so\n \n \n I uh had this flash of inspiration of just uh the same - the same disk had the segmented waveforms on them, so I -\n \n \n \n \n \n Shortening everything on the fly. \n \n \n while this other thing was still going on, I was run- I was running this - this thing. \n \n \n You had another process running that was shortening it. Yep.\n \n \n \n \n \n Wow, wow!\n \n \n And low and behold I gained three g- three gig of space and um, you know - \n \n \n Wow!\n \n \n \n \n \n Did you have to re-nice one of the processes to make sure that \"shorten\"?\n \n \n No, no. Actually it was fast enough. This is very fast. This - this really runs quickly. And that's -\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n Wow.\n \n \n That must have been suspenseful. \n \n \n Watching the disk meter.\n \n \n That was very suspenseful. That was - that was the most excitement I had all weekend. Uh, uh boy, it uh came out just fine. So. \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n To be O_K. \n \n \n You know what would be a -\n \n \n u- I don't know if this would mess other things up, but -\n \n \n It seems like kind of a pain to have all these split up files around. What would be easier would be like pointers.\n \n \n The list, yep.\n \n \n You know, lists like \"original wavefile, start, end\".\n \n \n Start end.\n \n \n This is -\n \n \n Yep, the way Feacalc - calc does it.\n \n \n Right, the - the only reason we do this is because the - the S_R_I front-end doesn't have a way to - to um \n \n \n go into a l- a longer file with indices.\n \n \n Um, so I - I suppose\n \n \n And segment on the fly. \n \n \n someone could try to put a hack like that into the - \n \n \n It would be easy.\n \n \n It wouldn't be hard at all. Someone just needs to d- sit down and do it who has some time.\n \n \n So.\n \n \n But there's also some - I guess -\n \n \n And that way we wouldn't have multiple versions floating around. About the only difficulty with that is if it's compressed. \n \n \n Then you really do have to decompress it first. \n \n \n That's true.\n \n \n Right? Because the pointers are -\n \n \n Y- you don't know how much it's comp-\n \n \n Well, is there - is there - is there a NIST routine which\n \n \n It doesn't compress it by a fixed amount.\n \n \n Exactly. Right right right right right.\n \n \n can seek\n \n \n in a compressed file but with uncompressed indices?\n \n \n I don't think so.\n \n \n And yeah I mean, that - it -\n \n \n No, no. I mean, if you -\n \n \n Th- the - the - the -\n \n \n If you can operate on the full -\n \n \n If you don't have to segment it, then there would be less of a reason to do the compression, because you don't have that wasted -\n \n \n \n \n \n Right.\n \n \n that extra copy. So.\n \n \n Right we - I mean the original Switchboard files are not compressed, right? So we could leave those as they are. \n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n Right.\n \n \n Well, I mean, it just depends on how much disk space is a problem. I mean the - what you could do is decompress it to a temporary place and then operate on it and then delete it.\n \n \n Right.\n \n \n But.\n \n \n I mean, the segmentation also saves you space in the sense that you cut out all the nonspeech regions.\n \n \n Just silences, yeah.\n \n \n And if you have, you know, twenty channels and only five speakers, then it's -\n \n \n That's true.\n \n \n Mm-hmm.\n \n \n Well, assuming you'd - Yeah. Assuming that you then off-load the original\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n Switchboard files.\n \n \n So.\n \n \n \n \n \n Mmm.\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n Well, it seems like just shortening them is a good short-term solution so we don't have to do any coding.\n \n \n Yeah, yeah.\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n But I think - kind of - We've had - There was a big disk crash when you were gone and -\n \n \n So.\n \n \n No, it was - I was still here. It was the day I left. \n \n \n Oh was that the day you left?\n \n \n \n \n \n That's suspicious.\n \n \n \n \n \n He did it on purpose.\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n \n \n \n Leave to Japan the day the disk crashes.\n \n \n No if I - if I had done it on purpose I would have timed it right after I left. \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n But, um - Yeah so, Chuck helped me out in, uh, r-\n \n \n regenerating all the cha- the different channel files for like a few meetings - for like six meetings. So I think they're split up even further. It's kind of even more disorganized now since\n \n \n Mm-hmm.\n \n \n \n \n \n we moved some of the meetings to different directories.\n \n \n They're on a different disk even, right?\n \n \n Are they?\n \n \n I think - you - didn't you expand them to X_E on Abbott?\n \n \n X_F.\n \n \n No, you - the ones that\n \n \n Oh, different ones?\n \n \n You - the ones that you put them on when you put them on X_E.\n \n \n I don't remember where I put them now.\n \n \n I think you put them on X_E. So.\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n Well what we - what we found out was that um the disk that crashed\n \n \n was - it - w- with a - with a meta disk allocation, you had both c- t- transcripts and the shortened files and the expanded files were all on X_E - were on the same - sorry, different partitions of the same physical disk.\n \n \n Physical disk.\n \n \n Mmm.\n \n \n And it's conceivable I mean, I - I don't - I mean, so um, I was told that it's possible that that might have, uh, caused additional wear on it. Maybe caused it to - to go bad sooner.\n \n \n Well, I think there was something else going on, because uh Dave Johnson said that D_D was getting accessed frequently. And it shouldn't be.\n \n \n Hmm.\n \n \n Oh. Uh-huh.\n \n \n Right? That data never gets touched, because we write it once and then we never touch it again.\n \n \n Well, why not?\n \n \n Oh sure it does.\n \n \n Yeah, after each meeting we copy the data to -\n \n \n Except that -\n \n \n Well, I mean, so the wavefiles, or - or anything at all, because the transcripts are there as well.\n \n \n The wave files.\n \n \n I mean, he was saying gigabytes.\n \n \n Oh, gigabytes. I see.\n \n \n And so, it has to be the wave files.\n \n \n Yeah, there was something weird about that.\n \n \n Yeah, that's right.\n \n \n Yeah, so I asked Dave about it and he hasn't looked into it yet, but we should definitely double check on it.\n \n \n Yeah like - like the same\n \n \n meeting - shortened, files that we pull off of Popcorn when we're done doing the recording,\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n looked,\n \n \n to the backup software, as if they had been written,\n \n \n you know, every single night, \n \n \n Every night.\n \n \n Is that right.\n \n \n i- for - f- you know, a week in a row, which is really weird.\n \n \n That's very strange. I didn't realize that. O_K.\n \n \n Wow.\n \n \n So at any rate, so for file reorganization we need to first decide what we're gonna do and then when we're gonna do it.\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n So I'm not sure who isn't involved with that. I mean, certainly me, Chuck and Jane. Anyone else care?\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n And I - and I'd like, in terms of the conventions, to also, uh, you know, s- send a bit to Dan Ellis to see if it's - if there's any - get his input on it. I don't think - I don't think that'll be - Yeah.\n \n \n No.\n \n \n Right.\n \n \n \n \n \n So, maybe we should do that\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n not during this meeting but s- another time, and just get a list of everything we're gonna do.\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n Maybe n- next week if we could. I'm trying to finish up some stuff.\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n Yeah sure. I'd like to -\n \n \n So just update all the naming conventions and\n \n \n put all the files where they really belong, on one disk,\n \n \n That sounds like a good idea.\n \n \n and then leave - leave everything in place until the back-up - until the next full back-up and then delete the old ones.\n \n \n Mm-hmm.\n \n \n O_K, now - and you're just - you're not talking about the s- the X_ disks - the X_ uh partitions, just the backed up space, or - ? \n \n \n So.\n \n \n Well, both need to be reorganized.\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n So um,\n \n \n \n \n \n various paths, th- I mean this is why we have to do it in a synchronized way, because um\n \n \n \n \n \n I think we should also at the same time try to, uh, convert over to your new naming conventions.\n \n \n Yes,\n \n \n exactly. That too.\n \n \n That'd be good.\n \n \n So that's what I was saying. We need to get a list of all that stuff that we wanna do.\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n And so\n \n \n I didn't really get any responses from the naming conventions that I sent out, so I assume that's alright with everyone.\n \n \n I actually haven't looked at it yet. I haven't had a chance, so. \n \n \n No.\n \n \n Hmm. \n \n \n I haven't either. Sorry. \n \n \n Oh.\n \n \n \n \n \n And -\n \n \n I will by next week, though. \n \n \n Uh, I don't know about the naming, I mean,\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n Then I should have made that as an agenda item.\n \n \n Th- so these names that we've been using so far are with uh\n \n \n uh\n \n \n uh\n \n \n I wouldn't just wanna change them\n \n \n you know, without some advance notice.\n \n \n Right.\n \n \n I mean, th- that's all these segment names that we- we've been using. I would rather not mess with them\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n Yeah, I'm -\n \n \n until we have some closure on some of the things we are currently\n \n \n Right.\n \n \n dealing with, so -\n \n \n Well, I mean, how you choose to do it - the naming is up to you.\n \n \n Right.\n \n \n Well,\n \n \n So.\n \n \n You're talking about different files.\n \n \n I mean, it should probably be - eventually should probably be consistent with what you're doing but,\n \n \n Yep.\n \n \n yeah, I kind of agree with Andreas, like I'm a little bit -\n \n \n I mean, these -\n \n \n I looked at the naming conventions and they look fine to me, but at the same time it was just like you know to rename everything would be -\n \n \n Well, if we -\n \n \n If we change things, it won't really affect what you're doing, will it?\n \n \n This -\n \n \n No but I think just to be consistent we should also, I mean, have the same conventions, just in case you want -\n \n \n Right.\n \n \n Yeah. So you - but you can switch that any time you want, right?\n \n \n Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's only gonna affect my work. So.\n \n \n Yeah, it's not gonna -\n \n \n I mean, if we -\n \n \n I assume you're not gonna go, like, into, you know, my directories and change my file names. So. Yeah. \n \n \n Everybody will use it. Fine slash U_ slash star. \n \n \n Right. \n \n \n I - Actually I was gonna do a global search-replace on all entries at -\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n at ICSI to change M_R to M_R_M at all places at ICSI. \n \n \n \n \n \n Yeah, that'd be great.\n \n \n \n \n \n Really enjoy that.\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n With no - with no advance warning.\n \n \n Y- you -\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n Well, maybe I shouldn't say that on re- record.\n \n \n \n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n There was a\n \n \n typo in some of the contracts that Morgan got that someone,\n \n \n \n \n \n one of our sponsors, did a global sear- search and replace for - between \"sponsor\" and their name.\n \n \n Mm-hmm.\n \n \n Oh no, oh no.\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n And so, it - it was saying, uh -\n \n \n Well, anyway, I won't -\n \n \n Yeah, one - one can imagine that that might be problematic. \n \n \n I'm not sure whether that's right.\n \n \n \n \n \n Yeah, one can imagine the problems that that would engender.\n \n \n \n \n \n But this - this name change affects a subset, doesn't need to reflect everything, yeah.\n \n \n So.\n \n \n Right.\n \n \n Right.\n \n \n \n \n \n Um,\n \n \n \n \n \n Thilo, you had - you wanted to talk about the -\n \n \n Yeah, I had one - one short point. I have just installed a Transcriber version on one of our N_T machines so it's available under Windows now.\n \n \n Oh great. Actually someone - I just got an email this week from someone as-\n \n \n Isn't that great?\n \n \n Yeah I re- responded to sh- I have already responded to him. I - I don't know what - what - what he - what the problem was. It was really straightforward, really easy.\n \n \n To Anant?\n \n \n And this is not - Mm-hmm.\n \n \n Oh, I'm sorry, I - I just - So, who did you talk to?\n \n \n There was some - some guy from S_R_I who wanted to - to install - Yeah.\n \n \n Anant?\n \n \n Anant Venkataraman? O_K.\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n And he sent an email that he couldn't - couldn't install it and I - I just described him, well, what I did and it was really straightforward, so. \n \n \n Yeah, O_K. Great.\n \n \n Yeah, O_K.\n \n \n Great. Great. Thanks. Thanks.\n \n \n And this is not just the Transcriber, this is the Channeltrans, right?\n \n \n Yeah, it's the Channeltrans, so the -\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n Yeah, excellent.\n \n \n the\n \n \n Cool.\n \n \n things that Dave Gelbart -\n \n \n Excellent.\n \n \n So you should probably talk to a Sys Admin and get it put in some central place.\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n So that it'll work on all the N_T machines.\n \n \n \n \n \n Well, I mean, as it stands, I - I guess - yeah I see what you mean. It'll - it'll be on the - on the UNIX side but accessible through the H_drive. Yeah.\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n I've -\n \n \n Right.\n \n \n O_K. Yeah. I could do that.\n \n \n So I assume Tcl-T_K wasn't already on the machine, so you had to install it. Yeah.\n \n \n \n \n \n I had i- to install it, yeah.\n \n \n \n \n \n Huh. Yeah.\n \n \n Uh\n \n \n So Andreas, would it be appropriate to ask how the experiments are going?\n \n \n Uh -\n \n \n Oh, well, yeah I - I - I actually wasn't sure whether this is the right meeting for it, because it has uh very little to do with - with meeting recordings, but\n \n \n Hmm.\n \n \n \n \n \n you know, I did uh run \n \n \n um some recognition experiments with ICSI front-end. \n \n \n Um\n \n \n Uh, and - and you know, this is the j- joint work with Chuck, and uh,\n \n \n um.\n \n \n So, first,\n \n \n uh, you know, we had -\n \n \n we figured out sometime last week how to\n \n \n um -\n \n \n and - and Chuck wrote this really nice little\n \n \n script - Perl script that\n \n \n takes a uh waveform, runs the feature calculation\n \n \n and then dumps it out into the - into um\n \n \n a f- c- so-called\n \n \n uh cepstra file, which is what the S_R_I system uses to read features. It's essentially uh\n \n \n uh NIST headered\n \n \n uh waveform. You know, it looks like a waveform except instead of samples you have feature vectors following the header.\n \n \n Hmm.\n \n \n Mm-hmm.\n \n \n And um that's all done\n \n \n um\n \n \n by the script, and it works great. And\n \n \n uh I first trained up two\n \n \n systems, because it's gender-dep- you know, the S_R_I system is gender-dependent so to be comparable, I trained uh um on a sh- on a so-called short training set\n \n \n um\n \n \n a male system and a female system,\n \n \n and\n \n \n uh also for debugging purposes, and for the heck of it, I trained um -\n \n \n trained uh on the same training set uh a standard system with the S_R_I front-end from scratch, \n \n \n um, and compared the two -\n \n \n So, w- what features did you use?\n \n \n Well, we used, uh, twelve P_L_P uh, uh -\n \n \n So not RASTA, just P_L_P.\n \n \n Just P_L_P.\n \n \n Just P_L_P and actually that - uh, one of the questions I had was what the RASTA would possibly buy us. But um, we'll\n \n \n talk about that later. So, the uh - so the baseline system - w- the S_R_I system was - uh used - uh also uh uh used t- twelve uh mel - uh mel cepstra\n \n \n um based on a twenty-four filter bank\n \n \n um analysis.\n \n \n Um\n \n \n I do not \n \n \n know what - So the f- the bandwidth of the um\n \n \n S_R_I front-end is from hundreds hertz to th- th- thirty-se- thirty-seven fifty or something like that.\n \n \n Thirty-seven fifty.\n \n \n And I do not know what the um\n \n \n ICSI um\n \n \n front-end would do. I mean, what the bandwidth is.\n \n \n Um,\n \n \n \n \n \n but the results are such that uh, let's see -\n \n \n There's one other slight difference, right? Or two - two differences.\n \n \n Oh yeah. So the S_R_I system also does um\n \n \n vocal tract length normalization and we couldn't figure out how to do that yet with the ICSI features. So that's one difference. And the other difference is that\n \n \n in the, uh -\n \n \n \n \n \n in the S_R_I system,\n \n \n the uh th- the first - the C_zero, the energy uh feature is normalized slightly differently from the rest. And what they do is\n \n \n Huh.\n \n \n they d- they subtract the maximum -\n \n \n For each waveform segment\n \n \n they subtract the maximum of - of th- over that waveform segment from\n \n \n from the values of - for that waveform.\n \n \n Which is a kind of automatic gain control, that is localized -\n \n \n Do they subtract the max from each i- one or do they subtract each one from the max?\n \n \n Who cares?\n \n \n They subtract -\n \n \n \n \n \n Doesn't matter?\n \n \n No, just would be a sign change.\n \n \n Except you get a lot of negatives the other way. \n \n \n Right, right, right. Um, and then, after - But after they done this waveform based normalization, they then do a conversation length normalization just like all the other features.\n \n \n So it's their kind of two stage normalization.\n \n \n Oh! \n \n \n Oh! \n \n \n Um now, I understand that the common practice here has been to just do c- standard uh mean subtraction, um on the waveform.\n \n \n Um.\n \n \n For the C_zero.\n \n \n Right. But in what we've done so far, because we didn't have any special provision for C_zero , we just treat it as - as any of the other features, we've done standard mean subtraction over the whole\n \n \n conversation side.\n \n \n So\n \n \n um since both S_R_I and ICSI use this sort of local normalization for C_zero that's presumably, you know, someone has done some experiments to - and found out that that works better.\n \n \n Um, so that's another difference, and that might account for some of the\n \n \n discrepancies in the results. Um, but you know. So the\n \n \n the results are \n \n \n um\n \n \n Where should I start? Uh\n \n \n the -\n \n \n So there's a two -\n \n \n Oh. I tried it with and without. Uh.\n \n \n So without \n \n \n and with adaptation. \n \n \n How many iterations?\n \n \n For the adaptation?\n \n \n Mm-hmm.\n \n \n Well, y- we always do three E_M iterations to\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n and it's - it's this - it's this quick and dirty -\n \n \n the phone loop adaptation which doesn't actually require prior recognition paths and - and so this is not the best you can do with adaptation, but it gives you sort of a first\n \n \n idea of what you could gain with it.\n \n \n And then, you know, so we have the\n \n \n the S_R_I front-end\n \n \n and the ICSI front-end\n \n \n and other than that the system configuration was identical. So it was the same -\n \n \n They came up with um\n \n \n you know, same number of uh Gaussians per state cluster\n \n \n Um, same - The clustering used the same information loss threshold, which actually led to roughly the same number of Gaussians overall. So that the system configuration is - is comparable.\n \n \n Um, and the -\n \n \n \n \n \n Uh, so without adaptation,\n \n \n you had forty-nine p-\n \n \n That's error rate or recognition rate?\n \n \n This is error rate\n \n \n in percent.\n \n \n And\n \n \n with adaptation\n \n \n it's forty-seven point one\n \n \n and\n \n \n this - this was fifty-two point six.\n \n \n and\n \n \n fifty-one point three\n \n \n Hmm.\n \n \n and then, when I combined them - I can actually combine them with\n \n \n something like ROVER. It's actually more sophisticated than ROVER but it's - \n \n \n Um, here I got\n \n \n forty-eight point five\n \n \n and here I got forty-six point five.\n \n \n So this is just combination at the utterance level.\n \n \n Um.\n \n \n At the utterance level, right.\n \n \n Why do you think the ICSI front-end is so much worse? \n \n \n Good question. That's fine .\n \n \n That seems really odd to me.\n \n \n Um, so, one percent I would attribute to the lack of V_T_L, about one percent. O_K.\n \n \n Oh right. Right, right, right.\n \n \n O_K. Ah O_K.\n \n \n And then maybe another up - I don't know how much the C_zero normalization business really matters I can't it see, I mean can't see it - the \n \n \n Ca- can you run the S_R_I - Just as an experiment, run the S_R_I front-end without vocal tract norma- normalization, and see how much difference it makes?\n \n \n I could. Yeah.\n \n \n I could certainly do that. Yeah.\n \n \n Um.\n \n \n We could also do the vocal tract length normalization with the ICSI features. That's something we wanted to do - yeah. We could - I was actually thinking we could use the warping factors that we compute for the M_F_C_C's\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n If we could figure out how.\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n and just try them with the ICSI\n \n \n uh front-end. Because we already have the capability to apply the warping to the um -\n \n \n to the P_L_P c- uh Dan added the -\n \n \n Yeah, Dan added that in, but -\n \n \n Yeah, but the -\n \n \n So.\n \n \n They won't -\n \n \n they don't correspond one-to- one though.\n \n \n No, but they should be\n \n \n close, since this -\n \n \n \n \n \n I mean the -\n \n \n Anyway. But I can certainly try the S_R_I front-end without uh V_T_L. That sh- that's - that's certainly quick to do.\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n Um\n \n \n and so -\n \n \n Yeah, and - and then there's all these um -\n \n \n You know, the number of um -\n \n \n You know, this front-end \n \n \n u- had a fair amount of experimentation going into it. You know, how many\n \n \n Mm-hmm.\n \n \n filter banks do you use, what - what bandwidth do you use, and stuff like that. And uh we could play the same kind of games with the ICSI front-end.\n \n \n Right.\n \n \n Uh, actually, the analysis bandwidth played a very crucial role. We used to use a narrow bandwidth and\n \n \n uh\n \n \n uh that hurt us. So this is, um - And this is - We've now used roughly what everybody else is using. So\n \n \n Hmm.\n \n \n um, there's some room for improvements, I figure, in this - in the ICSI front-end.\n \n \n Um.\n \n \n So.\n \n \n But the good news is that even with this - with the ICSI system being that much worse, you still get a win out of combining the two.\n \n \n So that gives some hope for the future.\n \n \n Um.\n \n \n Unfortunately however this seems to be reduced with adaptation, so.\n \n \n Um.\n \n \n Also interestingly\n \n \n the -\n \n \n Um, the difference actually widens. I would actually expect it or - or hope that the adaptation reduces the difference because it might\n \n \n um, for instance,\n \n \n um\n \n \n remove some of the um -\n \n \n \n \n \n You know, som- If you - if you have some - some difference in the front-end processing that\n \n \n uh is suboptimal, but can be possibly remedied by you know moving the\n \n \n um\n \n \n moving the models around. But - but apparently that doesn't -\n \n \n doesn't really - actually the difference becomes larger, so.\n \n \n Um. Anyway. So right now what I'm doing is um -\n \n \n Uh well, there's several things going on. One is that Chuck is working on uh getting the tandem features um into a form that we can train the tandem - the system on the tandem features. So that would actually be the\n \n \n more interesting experiment.\n \n \n Um, the other thing is I'm training\n \n \n uh retraining the models on the large training set that we usually use to build our evaluation models and then we can -\n \n \n Right.\n \n \n And I actually want to\n \n \n do the system combination\n \n \n um with our eval system um, on some subset of the data at least, probably only for the males, because I don't have time to train both males and females, but um.\n \n \n Uh and um -\n \n \n What about ta-\n \n \n concatenating the two feature vectors into a single one?\n \n \n It gets pretty big.\n \n \n \n \n \n It does get pretty big. Yeah.\n \n \n Hmm.\n \n \n And m- my experience with that in Broadcast News was usually combining at other levels works better.\n \n \n Hmm.\n \n \n So.\n \n \n For - for whatever that's worth.\n \n \n Oh, you tried that on Broadcast News? Concatenating\n \n \n Oh yeah.\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n \n So w- Yep.\n \n \n different feature sets? Yeah.\n \n \n Did you try uh -\n \n \n It was mostly M_S_G, P_L_P, RASTA.\n \n \n I see.\n \n \n So, you know, the feature sets we had available. And it was almost always better to combine at the probability level. You know, so we'd run the neural nets and combine the probabilities.\n \n \n I see.\n \n \n O_K.\n \n \n Alright.\n \n \n Oh.\n \n \n Yeah, and it does become sort of unwieldy to have these very large feature vectors. And that would\n \n \n Yep.\n \n \n blow up the\n \n \n You'd also have to do some sort of normalization afterwards\n \n \n uh -\n \n \n so that they're uh orthogonal.\n \n \n Right.\n \n \n So you'd wanna do a linear transform also.\n \n \n Right.\n \n \n Um\n \n \n so\n \n \n the - Yeah, and then we could start experimenting a little bit to try to get the ICSI front-end to perform better.\n \n \n Um. And - and as a preliminary just sort of diagnostic experiment we can - I can certainly run a S_R_I system without V_T_L\n \n \n Yep.\n \n \n just uh to get -\n \n \n Wi- without what? Without V_T_L. O_K.\n \n \n Just -\n \n \n Vocal tract thing, yeah.\n \n \n Wh- Yeah.\n \n \n And that - that's quick to do.\n \n \n So.\n \n \n I was thinking about\n \n \n tandem system - Well, let's not talk about it here, but I had some thoughts about the tandem system.\n \n \n \n \n \n yeah so but things are moving ahead, so\n \n \n O_K, should we do digits?\n \n \n Digits. Sure.\n \n \n Do we have any other topics?\n \n \n O_K, let's do them one at a time instead of simultaneous since we actually have time.\n \n \n Poetic reading of digits.\n \n \n Oh no. \n \n \n Transcript L_ one O_ five. \n \n \n nine four two three two seven seven zero nine nine nine seven \n \n \n O_ nine three eight zero O_ O_ one \n \n \n two nine O_ eight five five eight seven seven five \n \n \n three nine five five seven three four four seven nine \n \n \n six two seven four two seven three eight O_ \n \n \n eight six five seven zero nine one zero \n \n \n three five two three zero nine five three \n \n \n nine two five O_ two nine three three one two \n \n \n Transcript L_ one zero eight. \n \n \n six nine four eight seven three two two six two \n \n \n five five eight seven eight two five two one O_ one nine \n \n \n one two nine eight one zero six seven nine three \n \n \n six five eight one nine five eight one \n \n \n eight one five two one seven two O_ nine \n \n \n three seven O_ four seven three two nine \n \n \n zero one two nine six nine nine one three five five O_ \n \n \n one three five nine nine five three one one six \n \n \n Why don't we let Don go first before his battery dies?\n \n \n \n \n \n Mmm, O_K.\n \n \n \n \n \n Transcript L_ one O_ six. \n \n \n two three eight eight seven seven eight one \n \n \n eight zero four nine one zero seven two zero five seven two \n \n \n eight nine eight eight six nine six one eight \n \n \n two four two eight two six seven eight four seven \n \n \n nine seven five five seven one five zero two zero \n \n \n one three O_ nine seven two six two four seven zero eight \n \n \n two two zero eight five seven nine six two zero \n \n \n seven eight zero four five three six seven nine \n \n \n Transcript L_ one O_ nine. \n \n \n O_ nine O_ seven eight nine eight four three \n \n \n eight six three six eight six eight five six \n \n \n seven eight four four six five zero zero \n \n \n seven six three five one five nine O_ O_ two \n \n \n seven two O_ five eight O_ five six four seven three four \n \n \n nine three four O_ one four nine two five \n \n \n nine six nine eight five seven one O_ five eight \n \n \n four seven seven zero six five seven four seven seven five \n \n \n Do you wanna say that one again? That last one?\n \n \n Um, why? \n \n \n Or did - did you correct the whole one?\n \n \n I - yeah, sure. Yeah no I - I gotta write, so - I think. Yeah.\n \n \n \n \n \n Oh he did? Never mind. O_K good. Alright. So. \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n Alright. Transcript L_ ninety. \n \n \n two three two one two four zero three \n \n \n five O_ eight two nine one one two O_ \n \n \n nine one nine O_ three two five nine two seven \n \n \n two O_ seven four two seven three one three one \n \n \n three seven six four four O_ two three nine three \n \n \n nine five nine three five nine nine seven four three \n \n \n one nine five one seven eight one three \n \n \n eight zero three nine one seven nine nine eight O_ seven eight \n \n \n Transcript L_ one zero seven. \n \n \n one nine one seven one two nine six nine six eight six \n \n \n nine seven two nine O_ two four five four \n \n \n eight O_ nine seven one eight zero zero two \n \n \n seven six four nine nine one two two six \n \n \n three zero eight one six four zero one \n \n \n two one three one eight five two six five seven eight zero \n \n \n three O_ three eight three three eight seven four \n \n \n one eight one four two eight four - \n \n \n Sorry, start over. \n \n \n one eight one four two eight two four five four \n \n \n You can really tell from the prosody where it goes.\n \n \n s- meeting. I actually have one more thing that - I don't know if it's - i- if - if it's allowed to - to bring up after the dis-\n \n \n After digits, I don't know.\n \n \n Anyway.\n \n \n But it might be important. For um - So Liz remarked that she had recorded a meeting where\n \n \n Go ahead.\n \n \n it was later found that several of the\n \n \n s- microphones were turned off, um\n \n \n Mm-hmm.\n \n \n and this must become a problem especially with non-speech-meetings.\n \n \n So um\n \n \n is there a way that the software could warn you if it gets zeros from\n \n \n some of the channels, or - ? \n \n \n Probably. We could probably build that in to the front-end.\n \n \n Because it - you know it's really annoying if you go through all that trouble and then basically the meetings aren't useable because uh even -\n \n \n What are people doing, they're switching their mikes off or something?\n \n \n I don't know what they do. Maybe the batteries went dead, or th- they just didn't - they played with the thing and it didn't leave it in the \"on\" position or whatever.\n \n \n I don't know, uh eh. Fff. \n \n \n What would you like it to do when that happens? \n \n \n Well, no, if - if you um - I mean obviously you always -\n \n \n I mean, there's never gonna be a signal from all the channels, right? because - or rarely. \n \n \n Um.\n \n \n But uh.\n \n \n Well if an unblacked out channel is zero, is actually spitting out zeros, you can be pretty sure it's off. \n \n \n Right.\n \n \n Because it doesn't spit out zeros, it spits out epsilons.\n \n \n Right? Cuz there's little background noise. The question is, when the software detects it, what do you want it to do? \n \n \n Exactly.\n \n \n That's a good question. I don't know. But is there some - We can collectively think of some - of some mechanism that might reduce the risk of - of just -\n \n \n \n \n \n I mean, it - it - it -\n \n \n We - we already have visual feedback, right? You can see whether your mike is working or not. Um.\n \n \n Right.\n \n \n Right. So maybe it's just to admonish people to actually look at the screen at the beginning of the meeting to make sure they get a signal.\n \n \n Yep.\n \n \n Test -\n \n \n Turn off the screen saver during the meeting.\n \n \n Tell them to test their mikes, or -\n \n \n Yeah, something.\n \n \n I think they sh-\n \n \n Yeah, I d- I don't know what to do other than -\n \n \n It - it can beep if one of the channels dies while recording.\n \n \n There's no sound out right now.\n \n \n Oh.\n \n \n \n \n \n Never mind.\n \n \n It should give the electric shock to the person recording the meeting.\n \n \n Yep. Yep. Yeah yeah. That would be good. Well, we can think about what to do about it, but it -\n \n \n Oh yeah. That's a good one.\n \n \n Wow, that's not a bad idea.\n \n \n Yeah. O_K.\n \n \n It's pretty clear we can detect it, so.\n \n \n Yeah. Alright.\n \n \n O_K. Are we done?\n \n \n Yeah.\n \n\n \n\n\n", "mode": "spoken", "name": "Bmr021", "class": "face-to-face"}
{"subclass": null, "text_id": "spoken/face-to-face/interview_nathan_hole", "text": "\n \n \n\n Transcript of Interview with Nathan Hole\n\n Do you identify with a certain group of people? Who are you? \n\n That's a scary question. As for the first, not specifically I\n identify myself as being in between group of people, kind of like being one foot in\n each water, or like linked to different groups. \n\n And which groups are those? \n\n Well you would need to define group. \n\n Well lets say culture. What cultures do you identify with and\n why? \n\n Cultural groups being European not French because both of my\n parents arent french with a certain warmth towards American and Russian Culture the\n warmth could be described as family attachement. \n\n But not in the cultural sense as in you feel national pride Do\n feel a national attachement to american or Russia? As in political movements,\n traditions etc. \n\n Probably because these are two cultures representative of my\n childhood, the mother and father figure well, childhood memories, passport. \n\n What aspects exactly do you identify with each culture/country? \n\n Transmission of tradition The cultural backround of Europe the\n passion and emotionnal side to Russia like my soul feels Russian I feel European\n with a zest of Americanism. \n\n How exactly do you define that emotion and passion? \n\n So how do you define yourself as being a citizen of the world, \n free spirited and universal. \n\n What exactly is a citizen of the world? How do you define that? \n\n Someone who has been raised with multiple nationals and that\n adopts a more international perspective. Someone who does not have strong\n nationalist pride And feels more connected to people in general. \n\n And so in your opinion do you believe that being from two\n different backgrouns has helped you achieve this... identity? \n\n Well not only being from two different backgrounds but being\n born in a third one. My father is American, My mom is Russian But I was born in\n France. \n\n How did those two happen to reside in France \n\n Circumstances. Allright I'll say it. \n\n Yes, please. \n\n My mom after living in Russia at that time USSR moved to\n Germany with her family finishing her high school. When she was around 18-19, she\n decided to move to Paris not liking life in Germany. At that time, my father was\n working closely on projects regarding the construction of oil pipelines in the\n Caucasus and flew constantly to Russia Being between the US and Russia, he needed to\n stay somewhere in between and decided to live in Paris They met randomly in Monaco\n at that time and decided to stay in France. Before I was born, they would constantly\n travel to Russia and New York. \n\n Do you know what language they spoke together? Did your father\n speak Russian? \n\n English / Russian So, yes it would depend on circumstances. My\n dad spoke russian since he was a kid, having a Russian Nanny. \n\n Did he speak any other languages? \n\n English, French, Chinese fluently and a couple more. My father\n was born and raised in China till age 13. \n\n Can you tell me about your father? \n\n So... The reason I consider myself citizen of the world is\n because I come from a family that has moved every generation. My father was born and\n raised in China, his family being American, originally from New York. However with\n the war with the Japanese and the advent of Mao Tse Tung rise, all of their wealth\n was confiscated by the state and they were encouraged to leave. My father then took\n a boat to the US where he pursued high school and college. My mother was born and\n raised in Russia with German origins. Germans migrated to Russia in the 19th Century\n because the Queen at that time needed skillful workers for her ambitious tastes. She\n lived on the border of the Oural, the mountains, which bring to Siberia, in the\n artic circle. She then moved to Germany with her family It seems that I am\n continuing that family trend of hours of moving abroad. After all I was born and\n raised in France but recently moved to New York. Although part of my roots reside\n here, it is still life changing. When I was little, I always had the feeling I\n wasn\u2019t as everyone else because I never spoke French at home. I would speak Russian\n and English at home with both my mom and dad While using French at school. Now most\n of the kids I was friends with have double nationalities or are pluricultural. \n\n Do you remember feeling different as a child because of this? \n\n This progressively forged me into having this idea that I have\n nothing in me that is French but my roots lie in Europe. I think my generation is\n one of the first of our time to have a European sentiment, feeling like they are\n part of a European culture. Of course I'm not saying that the majority of my\n generation feels that way, we are a minority but, the whole feeling isn\u2019t merely\n avant garde anymore, Its foundation is solid and expanding This feeling of being\n pluricultural is hard to digest during your teenage years. You feel like being\n inadequate, not part of everything but the more you grow and gain in maturity, the\n stronger those foundations which gives you global perspective, great asset in our\n times Furthermore, having a more of a global cultural identity has prompt me to\n travel a lot and discover other cultures which in time strengthens the feeling of\n being part of humanity as a whole. To understand that right and wrong can be a\n cultural, social or religious view. In the end it all depends from which angle you\n perceive the subject from \n\n What do you think has made it expand? Globalization? So during\n your childhood do you have any memories of your first language? Which one was first? \n\n Tricky question. I don\u2019t have any memory whatsoever of what my\n first language was. My dad always spoke to me in English. My mom always spoke to me\n in Russian. Had both Russian and American nannies. And to keep the language going\n I'd be taken care of during summer by American students. \n\n Did you visit Russia ever as a child? \n\n Because Russian was a language I would only use with family as\n a child. When I was 5 I thought Russian was a family language. My parents and I\n would fly from time to time to Russia. \n\n Do you remember what that was like? What were your impressions\n of Russia? \n\n Once when I was around 5, upon getting there, everyone spoke\n Russian. So I turned to my mom and told her \"we have a really big family\". \n\n That\u2019s cute. \n\n Hard to describe my impressions of Russia. \n\n Well what do you remember about it? \n\n I still have the USSR vision of Russia. I remember tanks and\n army on the highways the cold and snow in a big park. \n\n Did that seem really strange to you compared with France? \n\n Well not really, when you are young you do not really take\n those things into account. You more or less take them for granted. \n\n When was the last time you went there? \n\n All I remember is that at that time because there were soldiers\n all around, I thought Russia was a mighty country. \n\n In 1992 or 1993. \n\n Oh so you were about 10 years old? \n\n Indeed. \n\n Would you go to visit family? \n\n No, most of my family moved to Germany. I would go there for\n business purposes. My dad had an office there. My mom and I would accompany him. \n\n I see, working with the Russian pipelines? \n\n Oil pipelines in the Caucasus. At that time it wasn\u2019t merely\n Russia. It was the Soviet Union. That\u2019s what I meant. Everything was centralized in\n Moscow. \n\n So is your family religious at all? Your last name sounds very\n Jewish. \n\n Not exactly, spiritual would be the more appropriate term. I\n have Jewish origins from my father's side but he was never religious. \n\n So neither of your parents was very religious? \n\n My mom is catholic and would go every once in a while to church\n like on Christmas or Easter. I was baptized in Moscow in an Orthodox church then did\n my communion in a catholic church. \n\n I see, so you were actually brought up with some religion? \n\n Yeah, then I followed Kabala briefly. I certainly do have a\n judeo Christian religious background. I was actually influenced by my classmates\n though, Kind of embarrassing story. But one of my friends at that time told me about\n the communion, getting presents and all. Since I wasn\u2019t really brought up through\n religion I decided to do it because I would get gifts. I think a lot of children are\n like that. My family taught me spirituality not dogma. \n\n What kind of spirituality? Can you explain? \n\n Well, that is why today I would be somewhere in between deism\n and agnosticism. Spirituality is a vague term to express the fact that you do\n believe in more than just physical. You believe the interconnectivity of everything\n in the universe from the atom to the universe. \n\n Like Buddhism? \n\n You believe that there may be a greater purpose. Well Buddhism\n is somewhat similar except I have more of a judeo Christian root. \n\n You just don\u2019t stop at naming any religion in particular as\n yours? \n\n Well, for instance the 10 commandments, whether written or not\n by god are good values. They are moral standards applicable to any society whether\n religious or not. \n\n That\u2019s true. We shouldn\u2019t have to follow them just because we\n are afraid of going to hell. \n\n Let\u2019s just say that I don\u2019t believe I need religion as I mean\n to feel connected to the rest. \n\n I believe my connection to everything is solely individual and\n based on my own experience. Everyone should have the choice of using whatever means\n necessary to channel himself whether religion, philosophy and so on. Furthermore,\n having a more of a global cultural identity has prompt me to travel a lot and\n discover other cultures which in time strengthens the feeling of being part of\n humanity as a whole. To understand that right and wrong can be a cultural, social or\n religious view. In the end it all depends from which angle you perceive the subject\n from. \n\n Finding spirituality doesn\u2019t just come automatically, are there\n any life-changing experiences in particular which have lead you to these beliefs? \n\n I lost my father when I was thirteen, this brought unpleasant\n turmoil to my family and changed my life radically. During my teenage years, I had\n trouble identifying with a specific group because I felt so different. I had lost a\n parent, I was multicultural, Had no religious ax yet wasn\u2019t atheist either which got\n me really lost and confused. After finishing high school I needed to find my roots\n and decided to go on a backpacking trip to China to find out more about my father's\n past. Now China being so different from where I grew up made me understand that the\n world isn\u2019t just one vision, but infinite visions of reality. In a sense, by\n traveling there, not only I found out more about my father, discovered a place and\n tried new thing. This trip kind of cleared my head and I realized that we were all\n part of a whole as different as we are. From then on I decided to go backpacking\n every summer. I then went to Chile, Bolivia, and Peru, where I spent most of my time\n living with locals hence discovering fully culture and traditions. Went to Vietnam,\n Eastern Europe. I\u2019m proud to say that I have friends of all nationalities, religion\n and color. \n\n Could you tell me about a specific moment or situation on one\n of your trips that have left a mark on you? This can be a person you've met too. \n\n During my trips, I was lucky enough to meet very interesting\n people as well as encounter odd situations. We started drifting around and instead\n of staying in Chile, went north to Bolivia. Now at that time the country was on the\n brink of civil war. Most of the roads were closed and bus drivers would tell us that\n driving during the night was unsafe and extremely dangerous. Yet we managed going on\n and got to La Paz, the capital. Now originally we were making way to go to Peru,\n while seeing a couple of amazing landscapes. But like I was saying the country was\n in civil war. rRoads were obliterated but broken pavement, while angry mobs ruled\n the city. The ever growing presence of military rendered the situation uneasy and\n one could see burning cars, illuminated roads as giant iron candle sticks. Now being\n a foreigner and going through such a stage in a countries history is extremely\n enriching because these inequalities, however serious they can be in your country of\n origin, are more strongly demonstrated in a poor country. One can finally grasp how\n the world is filled with conflictuous passions. \n\n Were you ever afraid? \n\n I wouldnt say I was afraid because we didnt encounter any\n potential life threatening situations with locals. The military were very suspicious\n but most of the people we met told us we should leave immediatly because it is\n unsafe. General population is usually always friendly. Occasionally you would bump\n into people that disliked foreigners but thats always a minority. From there on we\n headed to Peru, saw a couple of breathtaking if not life changing views. Let me\n point out the fact, that humanity has built such jewel across the world that merely\n seeing thus wonderful masterpieces enables to see what potential we have. Not only\n that, but nature also has amazing treasures to share. Coming back to the original\n story, after hanging out in Peru for a while we were bound to head back 2000km south\n to eventually get back to our plane. The only problem was, we drifted so far away,\n that we started having financial issues. Furthermore, we were in such remote areas\n that no one could actually transfer us any money through western union or money\n gram. We literally had just barely enough to pay for buses, so we started fasting\n for 2days. Now fasting while being constantly on the move with a 15kg bag on ur back\n and under scorching heat was harder than expected. During one of the bus rides,\n which was a 15h bus ride by the way, I started feeling dehydrated and nauseous. I\n started seeing stars and couldnt get up anymore. Actually my friend told me I turned\n green, so I got myself together and started begging for water. In a bus filled with\n peruvian farmers we were the only foreigners. One of them shared his orange juice\n with me. This helped me greatly, but the experience of having literally nothing and\n having to beg for water and supplies was truly a horrible yet strong experience to\n bear. \n\n Yeah, it must make you appreciative of what you have. \n\n It also stirs up the instinct of survival. \n\n Where else have you traveled? \n\n I have travelled also to China, Vietnam, Mexico, Eastern\n Europe. \n\n What about people you met on your trips? \n\n I have met very interesting people on my trips. The most\n intriguing person I have met is during my Vietnam expedition in 2005. I was waiting\n for a friend to join me from Thailand and had some time to kill. So I decided to\n visit Ho Ghi Minh City (formerly Saigon) and its surroundings. Now in Vietnam there\n are diverse religions such as Buddhism, Christianity and the latter Cao Daisme. Now\n Cao Dai is a religion which holds 7 million worshipers throughout the world but the\n actual root of it is in Vietnam. It is rather complicated to explain, but it more or\n less a combination of Buddhism, Christianity and Humanism. The practice is mainly\n inspired by Buddhism but the belief in a certain divine order, the all seeing eye\n (judeo christian) with reincarnation. Their temples are usually extremely colorful,\n with blue ceilings, very different from what we are used to seeing in the Western\n World. I was visiting one of those temples, enjoying the new scenery and started\n talking to one of the monks. After some platonic chit chat he asked me where I was\n from, so I cut the story short and told him I was visiting from France. He then\n asked me if I was interested to talk in french with one of the people there. I\n naturally accepted and followed the monk behind the altar, towards the private\n chambers. I met up with a very old man, probably in his 80s. It was hard to\n understand him because the communist regime under Ho Chi Minh cut his tongue off.\n Let me remind you that communist regime heavily repressed any religious ideas and\n concepts. It turned out progressively that the man was more than merely a priest. He\n was the equivalent of what we would call the Pope in the Catholic Church. He started\n showing all these letters from political personalities such as Henry Kissinger,\n Jacques Chirac the former president of France, The Queen of England, Australia's\n prime minister. I was literally amazed encountering such a prestigious man. He was\n so humble, so human, so far away from politics, very down to earth if I may say. Now\n having this opportunity and to talk about spirituality with someone so highly\n respected in that part of the world was truly an honor. He gave me some of his\n written teachings which I brought back to Paris with me, not to practice my newly\n discovered religion but to remember that moment in my life. \n\n So tell me how you feel about being half American. \n\n Nothing specific, I have always had a certain warmth towards\n the US. I'm definetly not as patriotic as the average American and also may have\n developed a more critical approach towards what America is. Living in New York is\n great. Ive always wanted to spend some of my life in the US. You have to understand\n that although I was raised in France there are certain things that were passed on to\n me as American culture. For instance the fact of being able to celebrate Halloween\n within the US was something I really enjoyed. I have always wanted to celebrate it\n in the real surrounding. \n\n Do people take you for an American or do they tell you that you\n seem European? \n\n I feel more european culturally speaking, however when I talk\n with people and have random conversations, they wouldnt know that they would come to\n realize it when for instance they would talk about American Football which I have\n never watched, or when I would randomly mispronounce a word that I havent used that\n much before. Im not considered by americans as french either. They dont really\n comment on it; thing is I know how a word sounds I just sometimes mispronounce it\n and then auto correct myself. People just consider me as a rare commodity, an\n American raised in Europe. \n\n So do you identify more with french or Americans? \n\n I don\u2019t identify at all with French, because I\u2019m not. I don\u2019t\n even have a French passport. \n\n But you lived there your whole life. \n\n Yes but those circumstances have given me a more European\n feeling that a French feeling I am part of this generation of kids that have mixed\n nationalities in Europe and consider themselves as Europeans. \n\n But you could easily get a french passport. \n\n Yes but I wouldn\u2019t want it. \n\n Why\u2019s that? \n\n I definitely come from France, am used to eating habits, but i\n feel different than the average french. Mainly tax purposes, but also because I am\n weary of France and wanted to leave for a while. \n\n Why are you weary of France? \n\n In my opinion France hasnt been evolving lately and its\n stagnating views are leading it to its downfall. And because it isnt turned towards\n international careers France is very Chauvinist, and being multicultural isnt seen\n as a high asset like in the States. \n\n Why do you think that is so? \n\n Hard to say, but part of it is because France was once a great\n country on an international level. Its greatness has been withering ever since and i\n believe its people feel that way. \n\n \n \n", "mode": "spoken", "name": "interview_nathan_hole", "class": "face-to-face"}
{"subclass": null, "text_id": "spoken/face-to-face/NapierDianne", "text": "\n \n \n \n I would say between the ages of 7 to 10 years old it, was a really big thing to go to the movie on Saturday mornings.\n And one particular movie theater we went to, they would show serials every Saturday, which were a continued story.\n So if you missed one Saturday you would miss what happened in a particular episode and you, um, wouldn't know what had taken place.\n So we would go every Saturday morning.\n And also at this theater, they gave prizes to different people.\n And one of the way they gave prizes was, they would take big group photos and everybody, and there were stairs going up to a balcony, real wide stairs.\n And the big group of people would go stand on the stairs and there would be probably 30 or 40 kids in the picture.\n And they'd take the picture and then you would go back the next Saturday after they had been developed and they would have circled 3 or 4 people in the picture and the people whose head was circled would get the prizes.\n \n \n Is that for real?\n \n \n That's for real!\n That really happened!\n And one time I can remember, I think it was Steve, my brother, um, he, and they would give treats like candy, I don't even remember what all kinds of prizes the would give.\n But for some reason, and I think this is really true, he got ice cream sandwiches!\n Like a box of ice cream sandwiches.\n And of course there's nothing to do with a box of ice cream sandwiches when you're at a 2-hour movie!\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n They're going to melt!\n And another, um, that was in, that was in High Point, NC.\n And then we moved to Charlotte and we used to go to - and I don't think its even still there I don't know if the building is or not - but the Dilworth Theatre.\n I lived in the Dilworth area, and we would go to the Dilworth Theatre and I do remember that it cost 9 cents to get a ticket to get in.\n And we would, could go to the movie.\n We would get maybe 15 cents each to go to the movie, and I sound like I'm 95 years old-\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n -with those kinds of prices.\n Um, but we would go to the movie and then you would go in and get your, your snack that you wanted.\n And there were several different choices.\n I don't ever remember getting popcorn at the movie until I was a teenager or in my adult life.\n But we would, uh, buy, lollipops is what they call them now, but we called them suckers and we would get often a 2-cent sucker.\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n Are you making fun?\n \n \n No, I love this story.\n \n \n And the 2-cent suckers is what is referred to now as a Tootsie Roll Pop.\n And we called them 2-cent suckers because every other sucker cost a penny.\n Except these were 2 cents because they had the Tootsie Roll in the middle.\n And there was one other sucker that cost a nickel and we called that an all day sucker, just because you couldn't eat the whole thing for the entire movie and you would really just have that sucker all day long.\n And one other form of refreshment that we got, which really embarrassed my mother because she didn't know anything about this until she went with us to the movie one Saturday, there was a bakery next door to the movie theatre.\n And my brothers and myself were not the only people that did this; all the kids that would go to the movie knew to do this.\n We would go into the bakery and we would ask for-\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n -a nickel worth of scraps!\n \n \n \n \n And we didn't even have to ask for it because the bakery lady knew us and she knew to have all this ready for all the kids going to the movie.\n And what it was it was broken cookies and broken pieces of whatever happened while they were baking, mistakes.\n So they would fill little bags for us and we would give them a nickel and we could take that to the movie theatre with us.\n And that's all the stories I can remember about the movies right now.\n I do know that I did used to go the movie downtown at the Carolina Theatre.\n And when I was young, it wasn't a strange thing for the kids to just go off and go to a movie.\n I mean, my mother knew where we were going and she knew when we would get back, but today you wouldn't send your seven or eight year old child to a movie theatre alone even if they were with their nine year old brother; you just wouldn't do it.\n And we could skate to the movie or ride a bicycle to the movie and we would do that.\n Which is kind of sad that you can't do that anymore and it's not just because things are, there're bad people in the world but it's too much traffic.\n You have to check everything about a movie, check it out to see what the content is and just wasn't like that when I was growing up\n .\n Also about that same time period in my life, I guess again between seven and ten years old, which seems to be what I remember most vividly, my best friend uh, was Kathy Josey, and she was a next door neighbor also, and we remained friends up until, uh, she was about 35 and she passed away with cancer.\n But we, we remained close friends.\n In fact we shared an apartment, first apartment either one of us ever had.\n And when we were, um, little girls we used to play \"Career Girls\"!\n \n We did!\n And we used to try to dress up and pretend we were businesswomen.\n And we would go to work and pretend we had an apartment together and then when we grew up, we sure did; we got an apartment.\n \n \n Uh-huh.\n \n \n Um, Kathy and I also used to play other kind of dress ups and it just, it seems like, I remember we both had like our mother's long skirts, or the skirts would be long on us and we would literally wear dress up clothes that belonged to our mothers.\n But we had, Kathy had one pair of pearls or beads of some sort of necklace that was her mother's and I didn't have the necklace.\n And it was really beautiful and I really, really wanted one.\n So we only had the one necklace and we, er, we decided, I don't know if it was jointly or if Kathy was just extremely nice of whatever, but she said I could wear it part of the time.\n And we would literally time the amount of time, we wore it like 30 minutes or 15 minutes or whatever.\n And the way we decided who got to wear it first, and this always kind of bothered me because I know Kathy did this intentionally, she said the youngest one got to wear it first and she was like six months younger than I am.\n So, it, that became\n a normal thing with us.\n Whenever we only had one of something she would always say, \"Well, I think the youngest one gets to do it, or wear it or whatever first.\"\n And, that just always stuck in my mind, that in, in our adult life I brought that up to her and she sort of acted like she didn't know anything about that and I thought to myself, \"she does,\" and then she laughed about it and she realized that she had kinda held a trump card on that one.\n Um, also we did a lot of pretending and as I said we played career girls and the dress ups.\n And my sister and I used to pretend also and Jill is about 2 years younger than I am, maybe two and a half, and we used to play Robin Hood except we didn't have a Maid Marion, we had a Saretha, I don't know where in the world that name came from.\n But we would switch playing Robin Hood, one would play Robin Hood and one would play Saretha.\n And Saretha was the counter, would be the same thing as Maid Marion, and, why, again, I don't know why we didn't use Maid Marion.\n But in my mind I can remember playing that, like all day long.\n And we would go over to my grandparents' and they had a a big white house with a big front porch and, uh, banisters on it and a lot of rocking chairs out on the front porch.\n And it was just a great place to pretend and we would climb up on the porch and on the banisters and we could make those our horses or, uh, it could be a castle; just do many things with it.\n Um, and when we were still living in High Point in our back yard we had a huge, I don't know, I guess it was an oak tree, but it was a really big tree, but it was a climbable tree.\n And it had real large, thick branches extending out to the side and they were fat enough branches where as a child of eight and nine years old we could straddle the branches.\n And that was another game that Jill and I used to play; we would pretend we were in the jungle and we would climb up on the tree and we would straddle the tree branches and pretend it was our elephant.\n And in the yard, we had an old tree that had been cut down and just the stump was remaining and my mother had planted, um, flowers all around that stump and we would use that stump as a, as a throne and the princess got to sit up on that stump on that throne and have all those flowers around her and that would be the throne and she would be the queen or the princess or whatever.\n When I was a teenager, an Audrey Hepburn movie came out called Wait Until Dark.\n And I think I was probably 16 or 17 years old; we were of driving age.\n And I had a group of girlfriends that I ran around with and there were, golly, there might've been 8 to 10 of us who were good friends.\n Everybody had their own \"best\" friend but then we had one big group that we used to do a lot of things together.\n Um, and we would, had that many girls but we would only go out in a couple of cars and I remember one of the girls, Betty Belle, her dad had a VW Beetle, and we'd fit like 5 girls in that VW Beetle.\n \n \n Did Betty Belle turn Catholic?\n \n \n No, huh-uh.\n \n \n She didn't?\n \n \n No.\n So we went out one night to the movie, but before we went to the movie we went to get pizza and then we went to, and I think the name of the place was The Open Kitchen, and we didn't have chain pizza places like we do now, like Pizza Hut and all that.\n This was just a really neat pizza place that all the kids would go.\n And we went to Open Kitchen and we would have eight or 10 girls and we would order one pizza and all share it and everyone would only get one piece and I think we would make the waitresses mad because we didn't have money to leave tips.\n We would also drink water.\n So it wasn't a good situation for the waitresses, but we had fun and we didn't even think about it.\n We just did what we could get away with.\n Anyway, that night we were gonna go see Wait Until Dark and I think it was on at the Manor Theatre, and I just remember when you have like 10 or so girls going somewhere to the same place it's kind of a, pretty much of a spectacle; we're all in this long line and we're giggling and laughing and cutting up and having really a great time.\n So we bought our tickets and we went into the Manor Theatre and we found a row of seats and we sat, file, all filed in.\n And I just remember seeing, and I was sitting in a middle section, I was not on an end so I had girls I knew on both sides of me.\n And I just remember that movie was, had a lot of hype about being really scary and suspenseful and it's nothing like these movies that are out today like Scream and, what is it?\n Nightmare on Elm Street whatever it is, where they're actual horror movies.\n This was, uh, a real intense, um, drama and, just very scary; kept you on the edge of your seat.\n And there was a scene in the movie I remember where every one of us, and it wasn't just our group, but so many people in the theatre, they screamed out at one time.\n And that's really all I remember about that night, it was just a lot of fun.\n And I really hope that my daughters have had some nights like that and has had good times like that, that I can remember going out with good friends.\n \n \n", "mode": "spoken", "name": "NapierDianne", "class": "face-to-face"}
{"subclass": null, "text_id": "spoken/face-to-face/PolkMaria", "text": "\n \n \n \n Welcome back to our show!\n OK.\n This is Maria, and I don't know your last name.\n \n \n Polk.\n \n \n Oh that's good.\n From Polkton, Maria Polk.\n OK.\n And where did you grow up?\n Were you born in this area here?\n \n \n I was born in Cottonville.\n Right outside of Norwood in Stanley County.\n \n \n Oh, OK.\n When you were little, did your mom read you books, or did somebody read you books in your house?\n \n \n My mama read to me and my sister.\n \n \n Uh-huh.\n What kind of books were your favorites?\n Do you remember any that were maybe a real favorite of yours?\n \n \n Mm, I kind of liked them all.\n Um, I didn't really have a favorite.\n \n \n No?\n Any particular types, like ones with pictures or\n .\n Can you think of a story that they told you that you liked for them to read over and over?\n \n \n Um, I think my favorite was like, \"Little Red Riding Hood;\" I loved that book.\n \n \n \"Little Red Riding Hood\"?\n So when you read to yourself did you read different stories than the ones they would read to you?\n \n \n Mmm, basically, something different.\n \n \n Did you get to go to the library when you were little?\n \n \n Uh-huh, all the time.\n \n \n Yeah.\n So, you would check books out?\n \n \n Uh-huh.\n Mostly, I liked to spend time reading encyclopedias--\n \n \n Oh, really?\n \n \n --when I was little.\n \n \n You like to read encyclopedias.\n In your family, do you remember if there was any storyteller?\n \n \n Well, my uncle was always telling stories and, uh, we had this house across the street from where I grew up that was old and he ever finished it.\n He started it and he told stories that, um, um, men being in it that house at night and stuff and for us not to go outside at night.\n \n \n Would he scare you?\n \n \n Yeah.\n So we, at a certain time, we were scared to go over there because we'd always go outside and look at the house across the street.\n \n \n Um, did he tell stories to big groups of people, or just one-on-one?\n \n \n Just to our cousins and all of us that hung around each other all the time.\n \n \n Uh-huh.\n Now, do you have kids at your house?\n \n \n No.\n Only, only on Sunday: my niece and nephew and my cousins.\n \n \n Uh-huh.\n Do you like to read to them?\n Do they bring their books over?\n \n \n I read to my niece.\n She likes the pop-out books.\n \n \n Uh-huh.\n How old is she?\n \n \n She's, ah\n six.\n She likes the pictures that pop out at you.\n She likes for me to read them to her.\n \n \n Can she read to herself yet?\n \n \n Not yet, but she tries to.\n Mostly, she just looks at the pictures.\n \n \n Is she, what grade is she in?\n Do you know?\n \n \n She's in kindergarten.\n \n \n She's in kindergarten?\n OK.\n That's pretty much all I need to know, about how you liked reading and things when you were little.\n Is there anything else you'd like to say about this, that comes to your mind?\n \n \n No, not so much.\n \n \n", "mode": "spoken", "name": "PolkMaria", "class": "face-to-face"}
{"subclass": null, "text_id": "spoken/face-to-face/ReidSandra", "text": "\n \n \n \n Hi my name is Sandra Reid and I am part of a family of seven children, um, and my mom and dad have passed away.\n During our young years we were very poor.\n \n We did not have very much but my mom always found a way to keep us busy or keep us entertained, and one of the ways that she kept us entertained was by telling stories, reading poems, and singing to us.\n One of the stories that I would like to share with you is the story that is pretty scary and it sticks out into my mind, I guess, mostly, mainly because it was scary.\n Even though my mom told us lot of scary stories she was always there to hold us in her arms and let us know that the story was not true and that it was we were OK.\n Out of all of my sisters and brothers I was the laziest one of all, as far as working around the house.\n All of my sisters learned to cook by the age of eight.\n I learned after I got married\n so I was a pretty lazy child when it came down to cleaning up and cooking.\n So one night my mother asked me to go inside and wash the dishes.\n Naturally, I start crying, and one of my main ways of getting out of work was always saying something hurt me, either my stomach, or that I had a headache, or something was wrong with my leg.\n Just anything to get out of doing my job.\n So after she noticed that I was going to be just a little stubborn and not follow, do what she tell told me to do, she asked me to come around in the living room with her and the rest of the family.\n So she began to tell this story.\n Once upon a time there was this little girl and her family.\n And the mother asked the little girl to please go in and wash the dishes so that she could go to bed early and not come up, wake up in the morning and see all those dishes on the table.\n And her little girl just complained, \"I don't want to wash the dishes.\n I don't want to.\n My leg hurts, my head hurts.\n I don't feel good.\"\n The little girl disappointed her mother so badly, but her mother said, \"How in the world am I ever going to get her to wash these dishes?\"\n So she said, \"Little girl, little girl, if you don't go in there and wash those dishes like I asked, you something really, really bad is going to happen to you.\"\n So the little girl just said, \"OK I'll go in there and wash the dishes.\"\n And she was in there stomping and crying and mad and taking all her good time.\n All of a sudden the butcher knife came out of the drawer and it began to roll around in the air.\n And before you know it, the butcher knife came around and cut the little girl's head off.\n And when the little girl went to heaven she was crying down to her dad and saying \"Daddy, Daddy!\n Mama cut my head off with the butcher knife.\"\n Now that knife, when I went to sleep it really scared me.\n But the wonderful thing about it my mom was always there close by to let me know that I was OK.\n Now after that, my mother continued to tell us many, many scary stories and tell us many, many, many poems.\n I'd like to tell you about how I got into becoming a teacher's assistant.\n All my life I always wanted to be a teacher even from the time I started to school.\n That was my dream, to teach school.\n As I told you, in the past we were a very poor family and I never got the chance to go to college because of this.\n Uh, while I was in high school a teacher of mine noticed that I had an extra bone in my foot and she said, \"Well now Sandra we can use this as get toward, on your grant to go to college.\"\n So she said, \"Go home and talk to your mother about it and see if we, you know, can follow through with applying for a grant, scholarship grant for you.\"\n So that night I went home and I asked my mother about it and she said, \"Baby, I really want you to go to college.\n It's always been my dream that my children all go to school.\n But because there are so many children in the family there are other things you're going to have to have to go to school and I just don't have the money.\"\n At that time my dad was in prison at the time, so it made it really hard for my mom.\n I sat there and I cried but I tried to be as understanding as possible because I knew my mother struggled really hard to even keep food on the table for us.\n So I never got a chance to go to school.\n \n \n Did anybody?\n \n \n Yes, my brother went to school.\n He went to Livingstone and then to transferred to Johnson C. Smith, so to make it easier on my mom, to, as far as, you know, him staying at home and going to school too.\n So he graduated from, um, Johnson C. Smith, here in Charlotte.\n I had another sister who went to Gaston College where she got a business degree there.\n I, in later years, I went on to college some but I didn't complete the, uh, whole four years.\n Um, I remember once, when I was working in a mill, and I was spinning yarn, and I was saying to myself, and, I was praying actually, and I said, \"God, one day I want to work in the school system.\n If I could just work, even as a teacher assistant I would be happy.\"\n As the years went by my prayer was answered and I got the chance to work in the cafeteria as a cashier and the principal there came up to me and said, \"Have you considered being a teacher assistant?\"\n I said, \"I would love to.\"\n So they told me about some classes that I could take at Central Piedmont.\n I'd never gone to college before.\n I was really afraid.\n But he told me to go ahead and try it, so I took the entrance test, and they accepted me into at the school, and I took some courses there.\n After a while, the principal said, \"I would like for you to bring me your, um, transcript so I can see what your grades are like.\"\n Luckily I had all A's.\n I did very well.\n And he asked me to be a teacher assistant the next following year.\n Um, my dream, my prayers were answered.\n I enjoy my job very much.\n I can't think of any job that would make me any happier.\n A few years later, um, I had the opportunity to apply for a scholarship to further my education.\n At first I didn't want to apply for it, but the principal called me during the summer months and said, \"Sandra the time is running out, you need to apply.\"\n And he told me I would have to write this paper.\n Well I didn't like writing at the time\n but I took it upon myself to go ahead and write a paper.\n And I went to, um, one of my staff members and I asked her if she would proofread it, and she thought it was an excellent paper.\n And I went ahead and mailed it in thinking uh I won't get the scholarship.\n Who cares?\n I don't, just so I can work in the school I'll be happy.\n But one day I came in and I looked at my mail and I was accepted.\n \n I couldn't believe it.\n Out of 150 assistants who had applied for this grant only 16 got the opportunity, so I felt very proud of myself.\n So I went on and took the courses, and as I started I think I was taking economics.\n I think that was the last class I took.\n My husband became very ill with cancer and I had to make a decision as to whether I would continue my education or take care of him and I felt like I needed to take care of him because he stood by me so much while I was going to school.\n \n \n But you would have been able to be a, a teacher if you had continued?\n \n \n Yeah, and at the time, I was also working in the classroom.\n I guess you'd say as a sub because the teacher that I was working with at that time was pregnant and she had to take a leave of absence.\n And they hired a sub but the sub didn't do that much.\n I had to take over the classroom.\n So I worked maybe like four months in the classroom and that highly put a damper on my wanting\n to be a teacher from all the responsibility along with the fact that I was taking care of a very sick husband.\n After all of this was, after I, I decided not to continue I've never pursued the fact of going back to school.\n I just got to a certain age and I said, \"No I can't do this anymore,\" so I never went back.\n But I love what I do and, uh, anytime I get a chance to teach in a classroom I go for it so.\n \n \n How many different schools did you teach at?\n \n \n I've only worked at two, two schools.\n The first school I worked at was Enderly Park and then it was closed down.\n So I was in those situations where I first, come first, transfer last, come first to transfer out.\n So I had to, I was offered a job at Ashley Park or Berryhill and I chose Berryhill.\n I didn't particularly want to come here and when I came here everybody noticed that I was really, really sad because I loved being at Enderly Park.\n But then, after awhile, I fell in love with Berryhill.\n If I'm not mistaken I think I've been at Berryhill for I think 17 years, 17, 18 years I've been here at Berryhill so and I hope I never have to leave until I retire.\n \n \n \n And why did the other school close down?\n \n \n Um, the, you know, I really don't know.\n Um, that, I really don't know why they closed that school down because it was a really nice school and everything, but they eventually tore it down because I was there I think the first year I went there was the year they built a really nice gym, and I don't think they used that gym no more than three years.\n I really don't, I don't remember why that school was ever closed but it was.\n And I enjoy what I do.\n That's it.\n \n \n All right thank you.\n \n \n Thank you.\n \n \n", "mode": "spoken", "name": "ReidSandra", "class": "face-to-face"}
{"subclass": null, "text_id": "spoken/face-to-face/RindnerBonnie", "text": "\n \n \n \n My name is Bonnie Rindner and I was born in San Antonio, TX, and the story I'm going to tell is about my mother.\n Um, a little background first.\n Her, let's see, her mother's family were wealthy people at one time.\n They owned car dealerships and extensive land.\n Um, I don't know if they were farmers or not, but I know they were land owners, um, many acres and, um, her grandmother was raised in wealth.\n Uh, then the Depression came and apparently everyone lost all their money.\n Um, she was raised in MO, and she married a man, this is my grandmother I'm talking about.\n And they were very poor by this point, and they had, I think, seven children.\n And one particular Christmas, things were very, very difficult.\n There was no money to buy any presents at all, um, for the children, and my grandfather, who was killed when my mother was 16, this was, of course, way before that, um, he must have been a very positive person because what he did with the situation was he, he told the children that there were no presents this Christmas because they had given them all to Santa to take the poor children and this made the children feel happy and proud of themselves and it gave them a good feeling that they had done something very nice for someone less fortunate than themselves.\n Um, I felt like that was a way to face that situation with such hope and with joy and with love.\n And although I never met my grandfather, I have never forgotten that story and when I hear of him I think what a wonderful, wonderful person he must have been.\n \n \n And how long have you lived in Charlotte?\n \n \n Oh, I have lived in Charlotte, um, for a year.\n Um, I lived in Charlotte for five years.\n We came here in 1986, we lived here for five years, then we moved to Raleigh for seven years and now we've been back one year.\n \n \n Well, good.\n \n \n", "mode": "spoken", "name": "RindnerBonnie", "class": "face-to-face"}
{"subclass": null, "text_id": "spoken/telephone/sw2014-ms98-a-trans", "text": "\n \n \t\t\n \t\n \t\t\n \n \t\n \t\n \t\t\n \n \t\n \t\n \t\tuh how do you feel about gun control\n \t\n \t\n \t\tuh on the scale they gave one to ten i'd say i'm probably a four\n \t\ti'm not totally i'm not\n \t\tone of these people that believes that we should not be able to buy guns but i don't think we should be carrying Uzis either you know what i mean yeah i know i mean i don't think machine guns automatic weapons i don't believe in things like that but i think\n \t\n \t\n \t\tsome people do i know\n \t\n \t\n \t\tthat everyone should have the right to have a hand gun in their house if they so choose and but i think there should be some restrictions when you buy one you know they should do more background search on you they should i think it should be harder to buy one\n \t\n \t\n \t\tright\n \t\tyeah there's a lot of crazies out there that can just go in and buy a gun because they don't really ask a lot of questions when you walk into those stores\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah\n \t\tno they don't they don't ask anything except how old you are i don't think that's kind of scary\n \t\n \t\n \t\ti'm from California my mom the last time i was like purchased a gun my my mom was getting a rifle for my brother that he wanted like an antique one and\n \t\n \t\n \t\tuh-huh\n \t\n \t\n \t\tthey he had to fill out some forms but i guess California might be tougher i don't know\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah they might be or you know how we are here in Texas it's like everybody's a hunter so i'm not much of a hunter but\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah\n \t\tit's\n \t\n \t\n \t\ti've never even bought a gun myself my dad's given it to me or someone's given me one so i'm probably real illegal you know carrying guns that aren't even mine\n \t\n \t\n \t\t\n \n \t\tyeah it's a it's a hard decision to make\n \t\n \t\n \t\tit really is uh the only problem i have with gun control is that they the radicals wanna ban all kinds of weapons and then the only people carrying guns are gonna be be the people who are gonna kill you anyway\n \t\n \t\n \t\tlike the bumper sticker it's true yeah\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah exactly right it really is because they're gonna get them one way or another they will always have a way look at drugs they always have a way to get that so\n \t\n \t\n \t\tright\n \t\tright right\n \t\n \t\n \t\tand they're illegal so i don't think it would do us any good to outlaw them all together\n \t\n \t\n \t\t\n \n \t\tno i yeah i i i i i agree that it would be like people in\n \t\tpeople that are uh criminals are the ones that are gonna get them and then you have no defense against these people when they do come into your house or something\n \t\n \t\n \t\tright\n \t\tthat's true\n \t\ti think they ought to teach people how to shoot them too how to take care of one how to act around one when they buy them\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah i have have gun gun have have gun management 101\n \t\n \t\n \t\tright yeah exactly you cannot take the gun home until you've taken this course sign up here something like that\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah or required required required for every college student oh\n \t\n \t\n \t\tright exactly before graduation\n \t\n \t\n \t\tGod gun control it's it's such a heated topic in the the and people get so emotional about it\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyep\n \t\toh yeah they do they get real emotional about it all the i've worked with a lot of people that hunt and they just they they don't see any sense in it at all\n \t\tthey think it's ridiculous to have any kind of gun control but then of course they're hunters they know what they're doing they don't realize there're a bunch of crazy people out there that\n \t\n \t\n \t\tsome of them are crazy too whew yeah yeah they go out there and get drunk and start shooting\n \t\n \t\n \t\tdon't use it for that well yeah that's true they shoot each other thinking they're a deer yeah darn i thought you were a deer Bob sorry my mistake\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah Marge i don't know what happened to your husband he just never came back\n \t\n \t\n \t\tlooked like antlers i don't know\n \t\t\n \n \t\tyep that happens a lot too\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah oh\n \t\n \t\n \t\tbut i guess that's it\n \t\tthat's my opinion on it so what now\n \t\n \t\n \t\t\n \n \t\ti'm not sure\n \t\n \t\n \t\tuh\n \t\tuh i think we just hang up yeah okay thanks bye\n \t\n \t\n \t\ti let's see\n \t\tyeah yeah we just say good-bye and hang up okay okay okay thanks bye-bye\n \t\t\n \t\t\n \t\n", "mode": "spoken", "name": "sw2014-ms98-a-trans", "class": "telephone"}
{"subclass": null, "text_id": "spoken/telephone/sw2015-ms98-a-trans", "text": "\n \n \t\t\n \t\n \t\t\n \n \t\n \t\n \t\t\n \n \t\n \t\n \t\thave you ever got one of those calls that's either generated by a computer or somebody going down a list and they're either\n \t\toffering a service or\n \t\tthey're introducing some new product in the area and\n \t\tnormally when they call you're either in the shower or you in the middle of cooking something and you had to stop everything to run to the phone\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyes yes\n \t\tthat is that one that you were talking about\n \t\n \t\n \t\tthat was the big one i'm talking about i work weird hours\n \t\tand invariably just about the time i'm going to sleep the phone tears off the wall\n \t\n \t\n \t\tuh-huh uh-huh\n \t\n \t\n \t\tand you're trying to crawl out of a half unconscious sleep and answer the phone you either hear the click as soon as you say hello you hear the click of the recording coming on\n \t\n \t\n \t\t\n \n \t\tum-hum\n \t\n \t\n \t\tor you hear somebody already starting reading reading off a list of stuff that they've read probably a thousand times that day already\n \t\n \t\n \t\tthat's true or the ones that are are generated by a computer it's just a computer voice that comes on the line those are the ones that i really really hate too\n \t\n \t\n \t\teven had some of them the\n \t\tthey're voice activated and you've got to say hello twice before they'll do anything\n \t\n \t\n \t\tuh-huh uh-huh yeah sometimes i i get them on my uh answering machine at home so and i hate that when i've got a whole bunch of messages and i go through them and most of them aren't from anybody at all\n \t\n \t\n \t\twhat i would love to see done to stop all of this\n \t\n \t\n \t\tuh-huh\n \t\n \t\n \t\twe've got a thing in this country you can have your phone number unlisted\n \t\n \t\n \t\tum-hum\n \t\n \t\n \t\ti think a law should be passed to where any of these people i think it's great that you know freedom of speech in this country and everything\n \t\tbut if they're going to offer these services or these recorded message everything they ought to be stuck working with the phone book like everybody else instead of using a computer to go through and just go down every sequence of numbers for this certain area code and call them\n \t\n \t\n \t\tum-hum yeah see i have an unlisted telephone number but i still get all of those calls and then some of them are speaking in a foreign language that i don't even understand\n \t\tso yeah i do i really feel that that's uh an invasion of my privacy\n \t\ti agree with you on that particular subject there\n \t\tlet me see\n \t\n \t\n \t\tthat's about that as far as any other everyday occurrences\n \t\ti put a stop to some of them as far as the door-to-door either religious groups or people\n \t\n \t\n \t\tum-hum\n \t\n \t\n \t\tpeddling products if i wanted their products i would've either gone to the store to bought it or i would've called for their salesman salesman to come out\n \t\n \t\n \t\tum-hum um-hum\n \t\tyeah that's true living in an apartment complex though you know you can't um you can't really stop those people from coming around even though they put up signs out front that says no solicitations\n \t\tuh but they still come up to the front door and uh you know walk around so usually what i do is i'll call the apartment manager and tell him hey there's people coming around you know and they're trying to sell something or or they're from a religious organization\n \t\tand i really hate that i really really do i had somebody come to the door about two weeks ago\n \t\tand um gosh it was about nine o'clock at night too it wasn't even what i would consider you know a family hour it's time to you know start going to bed and uh and it was somebody from um oh what was it the uh Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints\n \t\tand uh i've read a lot about uh that particular sect and i don't particularly care for it so i especially don't like for them to come up to my door and try and talk to me\n \t\n \t\n \t\tnow i agree with their right to um\n \t\tpursue their religion of choice in that whatever manner they want to but i think they also should respect the sanctity of the American home whether it be in a house or in an apartment\n \t\n \t\n \t\tum-hum\n \t\n \t\n \t\ti'm on my turf if i want them there i'll call for them otherwise i don't want to know they exist\n \t\n \t\n \t\tright\n \t\tyeah yeah no i i agree with you there though i mean they want to choose that particular religion then that's fine with me too you know as long as they don't try and pull me in and drag me in and and i don't like the way that they do it either\n \t\tand and it's their mission as they do as they go door-to-door and they go out into the public and they actually have the uh teenagers serving two years like you would say like in an army and two years in going around and doing missionary type work\n \t\tand i don't know i just um i just don't particularly care for that at all and that that's one thing that i feel really strongly about though is uh you know people coming up to my door especially religious organizations\n \t\tand wanting to uh you know to try and get me to join or you know become interested in their religion because i have my own\n \t\n \t\n \t\tnow the part about where you said the apartment complex puts up signs that says no soliciting i've even gone so far as to put that i've got a storm door on the front of the house and i've put in\n \t\ti don't know how much clearer it can be it's a red sign with silver letters saying no soliciting i should have guessed i guess i should make another one that says religious or otherwise because i still get\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah yeah that's true yeah no i don't uh i don't have i didn't go that far but uh yeah i probably could do the same thing uh you know i don't have a storm door but i'm sure i could rig up something\n \t\tbut you know i don't think that that would stop people i mean it's like they they see that word and it says uh go\n \t\tinstead of stop\n \t\toh goodness\n \t\n \t\n \t\twonder if there'd be some way we could get these people that do this get their names their addresses and their phone numbers and then reverse it and do well that would be technically illegal it'd be harassment\n \t\n \t\n \t\t\n \n \t\toh gosh\n \t\n \t\n \t\tbut i consider invasion of my privacy\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah yeah\n \t\n \t\n \t\ta harassment in itself\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah yeah yeah that's true that's true\n \t\thm well what else\n \t\n \t\n \t\ti believe we've pretty much summed everything up\n \t\n \t\n \t\ti know but i remember you you talked about something you started off and you said well let me think\n \t\tyou talked about the telephone calls people coming and soliciting selling things at the door you said something else\n \t\tand i can't remember what it was\n \t\tand i thought yeah that that kind of touched a nerve right there but we got uh we got to talking about the um uh people coming to you at the front door\n \t\n \t\n \t\ti'm drawing the blank\n \t\n \t\n \t\t\n \n \t\toh goodness okay is our five minutes up\n \t\n \t\n \t\tuh pretty close to it well i've enjoyed talking with you\n \t\n \t\n \t\tpretty close\n \t\twell it was nice talking to you too Jim\n \t\n \t\n \t\tand take it easy now good night\n \t\n \t\n \t\tokay thanks bye\n \t\n \t\n \t\t\n \n \t\n \t\n \t\t\n \n \t\t\n \t\t\n \t\n", "mode": "spoken", "name": "sw2015-ms98-a-trans", "class": "telephone"}
{"subclass": null, "text_id": "spoken/telephone/sw2025-ms98-a-trans", "text": "\n \n \t\t\n \t\n \t\tall right Amy how are you doing today\n \t\n \t\n \t\tfine fine\n \t\n \t\n \t\toh all righty i think we know what we're going to speak about um tell you what i'll start off how's that\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah\n \t\tokay you go ahead\n \t\n \t\n \t\tum i personally think to set a mark with the judicial system and we're talking about criminals criminal cases that they should bring back\n \t\n \t\n \t\tum-hum\n \t\n \t\n \t\t\n \n \t\thangings on weekends\n \t\n \t\n \t\tin public places\n \t\n \t\n \t\tin public places there is one state that does that by the way\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah\n \t\treally what is that\n \t\n \t\n \t\ti want to say Oklahoma i saw report something the other night about it\n \t\n \t\n \t\thm\n \t\n \t\n \t\tthey don't do them real often which is obviously the death penalty\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah\n \t\tyeah\n \t\n \t\n \t\tum but i think if we quit uh building these Taj Mahals with the color TVs\n \t\tand sixty dollars sixty thousand a year to keep an inmate in there on a on a on a life sentence we should start hanging them and get it over with and let's just screwing up the system uh\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah well the sentences are so unbelievable i just saw on the news last night that they said the average time a sentenced murderer you know is in jail is two years before he's paroled and a rapists is like six months and a burglar is like two months\n \t\n \t\n \t\tthat's pathetic\n \t\tthat's pathetic it's\n \t\n \t\n \t\tbecause they just say there's either no room in the system you know in the jails for them or\n \t\tyou know it's just that it seems like the automatic sentences if if a judge has leeway on what he's going to you know sentence someone for between you know two months and uh fifty years and you know what's his whim to decide it should be two months\n \t\n \t\n \t\tthis is true and and and and and the way the law reads uh if they sentence you to\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyou know it's crazy\n \t\n \t\n \t\tlife in prison then he's available for parole if it's if it's life and a day then he's not eligible for parole so what you know let's quit BSing with the system\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah\n \t\twell even if it's life like you say we end up spending sixty thousand dollars a year to keep some you know joker in there for life we could spend that money you know for starving children that are starving or twelve million other things would be more useful than that\n \t\n \t\n \t\texactly\n \t\n \t\n \t\tso to me if somebody has life you know beyond a reasonable doubt they should that should be it you know particularly for some of these really\n \t\n \t\n \t\ta life for a life\n \t\n \t\n \t\ti mean there are so many just major major serial murders and it's not just like one instance or something it's just uh horrifying some of the murders that go on\n \t\n \t\n \t\tthe old Charles Manson case i mean the guy is really\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah and the yeah there's just everyday you hear on the news of another one like that um\n \t\n \t\n \t\t\n \n \t\tjust shouldn't be allowed to to even even live uh about the issue about sentencing by the judge\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah\n \t\tum-hum\n \t\n \t\n \t\tthe the judge presently has an opportunity to intervene\n \t\tuh when there's uh my understanding when there's uh a verdict and it for example there's a hung jury here in Fort Worth two day in eight to four and bam bam the guy got off\n \t\tuh he was uh he he was a veterinarian and killed two a father and a son okay\n \t\n \t\n \t\tright yeah i heard about that on the news yeah\n \t\n \t\n \t\tum kind of gets back to the second request we've been asked to look at is most criminal cases requiring an ananimous verdict the a situation like that i'd say no let's just go like a regular vote eight to four tells me that there were eight\n \t\tthere's a percentage certain percentage of the people there with sixty percent of the people uh seventy percent of the people said hey\n \t\n \t\n \t\tright rather than have to retrial the whole whole thing and spend all the money for people to you know go back to court and all the lawyers and i mean it just winds up costing the taxpayers a fortune you know a fortune to keep doing that\n \t\n \t\n \t\tthe guy's guilty\n \t\texactly\n \t\n \t\n \t\tand the victims you know the family of these people that have been murdered they just have to have it dragged on for years and years before they ever get any resolution\n \t\n \t\n \t\texactly because it's not next day they have the start the trial which is X number of months and just prolongs the situation that much more\n \t\n \t\n \t\tright\n \t\tyeah yeah\n \t\n \t\n \t\ti think that that if it's if it's not a split decision uh go with the highest number and let's just get on with the program\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah yeah\n \t\n \t\n \t\tuh but as far as the sentencing by the judge i would have to vote against that since there's a jury because that's what the juries are for is to make the decision um what are your feelings\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah yeah\n \t\twell if i i saw on one of the talk shows this woman judge i believe from Florida and she just has just really stiff penalties and i saw that in in the hands of a judge that really was conscientious and really\n \t\tyou know took the pains to give a sentence for what was deserved it could you could have a a judge that would really make a good impact but likewise you could have the flip side\n \t\tand have some judge that was paid off or you know had good a good old boy network or for whatever reasons you know politics just let all kinds of people through so he he would have a heck or she would have a heck of a lot of power\n \t\tyou know if used wrongly so at least the jury system does something to prevent that you know or help it with it anyway i don't know if it prevents it but seems like the jury system does have it's advantages\n \t\tbut i also i've also heard on trials that sometimes they go through like three hundred jurors before they hand pick these jurors that they think are going to be the ones that are going to be the most lenient you know\n \t\tand i don't know how much they're getting just a jury of their peers at that point they're really getting a select group it's not just random people\n \t\n \t\n \t\thm\n \t\n \t\n \t\tit almost should be the first twelve people that they you know that have on a list are the ones that are on the jury and that's it\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah yeah i get back to Price's comment when he uh was found guilty he said well he didn't have any blacks uh you know from his neck of the woods well give me a break you know\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyou know\n \t\t\n \n \t\the'd have to have his whole family up there for him to feel like he's got his peers or something yeah\n \t\n \t\n \t\texactly\n \t\tyeah yeah i mean you're you're in Dallas so everybody i can't believe they can uh like in a murder situations they look for juries who don't know anything about the system well or know anything about the the occurrence you'd have to be pretty dense\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyou'd be in have to be in a cave not to know what's going on or moving it to Lubbock or somewhere possibly is not the answer\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah\n \t\toh they'd have to move it to Taiwan for people not to know about it practically\n \t\n \t\n \t\tthis is true so true well this has been an interesting conversation\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah yeah\n \t\twell really this is breaks up my afternoon from changing diapers and mopping floors i mean what can i say no i'm at home with two little kids preschoolers my husband works for TI\n \t\n \t\n \t\toh so you're at the house you're not at the plant\n \t\toh hold it\n \t\toh that's good that's good i thought i heard a holler there in the background but i wasn't sure\n \t\n \t\n \t\tso yeah\n \t\toh yeah i've got the dog and two kids waiting here i am locked up in the laundry room okay thanks a lot bye-bye\n \t\n \t\n \t\toh goodness well i'll let you get i enjoyed it bye\n \t\n \t\n \t\t\n \n \t\t\n \t\t\n \t\n", "mode": "spoken", "name": "sw2025-ms98-a-trans", "class": "telephone"}
{"subclass": null, "text_id": "spoken/telephone/sw2071-ms98-a-trans", "text": "\n \n \t\t\n \t\n \t\t\n \n \t\n \t\n \t\tokay Ellen what kind of a car do you think you're going to buy\n \t\n \t\n \t\twell as a matter of fact i was thinking about that the other day and uh\n \t\ti really don't know the answer um\n \t\n \t\n \t\t\n \n \t\n \t\n \t\ti would sort of like to uh think about something in the way of uh uh sort of a sporty car but not any not you know a luxury type\n \t\tsporty one but um\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah\n \t\n \t\n \t\tsomething that still has a lots of amenities and you know gadgets and things\n \t\n \t\n \t\toh you do want a lot of that stuff\n \t\n \t\n \t\t\n \n \t\tyeah well yeah i like i like some of those things they come in really handy\n \t\n \t\n \t\twhat kind of uh\n \t\tthings are you going to consider you know what uh you said something about the about the\n \t\twell what do you call them you said amenities\n \t\n \t\n \t\tamenities\n \t\n \t\n \t\tthat they have but what about um their reputation of the company or the price\n \t\n \t\n \t\tum well of course i guess uh price is always the big consideration\n \t\tbut\n \t\n \t\n \t\tit is for me other people don't seem to have the same problem\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah\n \t\t\n \n \t\twell that's that's a big one in my book but uh um\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah\n \t\n \t\n \t\ti have preferences for uh for some um makers over others\n \t\tum and i would sort of like to buy American\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah\n \t\n \t\n \t\tbut you know i'm not so totally hung up on that that i wouldn't buy something else how about you\n \t\n \t\n \t\twell um the last car we bought was American because of because of that reason but have not been entirely happy with um\n \t\tseveral things about the car it doesn't seem like the quality is quite as high as i expected it to be\n \t\n \t\n \t\toh really\n \t\n \t\n \t\tbecause several things minor things sort of but still they cost us money um that we didn't feel like we should have had to pay on a car that that was that new\n \t\n \t\n \t\tum-hum\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyou know we bought the car new and after um well well well under two years we had to replace the clutch\n \t\n \t\n \t\toh\n \t\n \t\n \t\tand they just said well you know clutches are disposable and i said since when\n \t\tbrake pads are disposable you know we know that but i never thought a clutch was disposable\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah\n \t\tyeah\n \t\tyeah i wouldn't have thought so either\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah so that was that was kind of a shock\n \t\n \t\n \t\toh\n \t\n \t\n \t\t\n \n \t\n \t\n \t\toh yeah i i guess there's a lot to to think about when you're trying to make that decision\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah you know the less actually the less you spend on a car it seems like luxury cars they're called luxury cars even though they're much more expensive like like uh\n \t\tum a Mercedes Benz they don't have the history of breaking down or things like that that would go wrong would definitely not be considered disposable\n \t\n \t\n \t\tright\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyou would never think of having to replace the clutch in a Mercedes\n \t\n \t\n \t\tno but then um\n \t\n \t\n \t\tespecially not after two years\n \t\n \t\n \t\tno but on the other hand i guess too uh whenever you do have to have some major work done on one of those it costs a fortune\n \t\n \t\n \t\treally oh i don't know\n \t\n \t\n \t\t\n \n \t\tyeah i've uh worked with a couple of people who have owned uh various years uh Mercedes and\n \t\n \t\n \t\tum-hum\n \t\n \t\n \t\teven though they do a lot of the work themselves then just buying the parts and everything is is pretty expensive but for them it's it's sort of a hobby too to own them\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah\n \t\twhat kind of what brand of car are you thinking about buying or like what things are you looking at\n \t\n \t\n \t\twell i haven't really really gotten that far with it um i've always sort of liked General Motors a little bit better than some of the others but uh\n \t\n \t\n \t\tum-hum\n \t\n \t\n \t\toh i guess i really don't know\n \t\n \t\n \t\thow come i've been kind of um\n \t\ti guess the commercials are getting to me the Toyota commercials and i know that a lot of people i've i've known that have had Toyotas have been just extremely happy with them that hardly had any problems at all\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah\n \t\tyeah that i think that's\n \t\n \t\n \t\ti think they have a really good um quality\n \t\n \t\n \t\tum-hum my uh daughter has owned two different ones and uh\n \t\tyou know we've had some work done on them but it's not too bad and the reason one of the reasons we um\n \t\tbought the first one was because a friend of ours had a Toyota that he just really drove for years and years and years and he lived way out in the country so he put a lot of miles on it\n \t\n \t\n \t\tum-hum\n \t\n \t\n \t\tand you knew it had had been through a whole lot\n \t\n \t\n \t\tum-hum\n \t\n \t\n \t\tand yet you know it it held up pretty doggone good so\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah\n \t\n \t\n \t\ti thought they would\n \t\n \t\n \t\tthey seem to be really durable\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah\n \t\n \t\n \t\tso i don't know i'm i'm not ready to buy a new car yet but i don't know if if the next time i'm going to try to\n \t\tto stay with buying something American or if i'm going to go for a little more\n \t\twhat i would consider to be a long-term investment\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah\n \t\n \t\n \t\t\n \n \t\n \t\n \t\twell and i guess you know you always have to think about things like your gas mileage and stuff like that you know you\n \t\n \t\n \t\toh it's easy to get gas mileage in this car it gets excellent gas mileage\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah\n \t\tyeah that's one of the big throwing cards for\n \t\tsome of the foreign ones\n \t\n \t\n \t\tum-hum\n \t\n \t\n \t\twell\n \t\twe talked long enough\n \t\n \t\n \t\ti think so\n \t\n \t\n \t\tokay well enjoyed it bye-bye\n \t\n \t\n \t\t\n \n \t\tall righty thanks bye-bye\n \t\n \t\n \t\t\n \n \t\n \t\n \t\t\n \n \t\t\n \t\t\n \t\n", "mode": "spoken", "name": "sw2071-ms98-a-trans", "class": "telephone"}
{"subclass": null, "text_id": "spoken/telephone/sw2078-ms98-a-trans", "text": "\n \n \t\t\n \t\n \t\there goes Sharon\n \t\n \t\n \t\tokay\n \t\n \t\n \t\twell what do you think about Nolan Ryan being the first baseball player to earn a million dollars\n \t\tthat's the only thing i found out tonight\n \t\n \t\n \t\toh you found that out tonight i hadn't even heard that that's great i think he deserves every penny of it\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah\n \t\tyeah\n \t\n \t\n \t\tbut there are some others out there that i don't believe deserve the money they're getting\n \t\n \t\n \t\twell isn't it funny how baseball's getting less than like football players would\n \t\n \t\n \t\toh yeah\n \t\n \t\n \t\twonder because football\n \t\n \t\n \t\tand they play a lot they play a lot longer season too\n \t\n \t\n \t\tand a lot more games right\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyep that's exactly right\n \t\n \t\n \t\tuh-huh\n \t\n \t\n \t\tbut i think let's see the teams that were there last year were\n \t\tsee somebody from California i don't even know who won the pennant last year\n \t\n \t\n \t\tbeats me i mean i know Yankees have won a lot of games through the years\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah not lately though\n \t\n \t\n \t\twe have been talking about this i tried to call earlier\n \t\n \t\n \t\tuh-huh\n \t\n \t\n \t\tand we had made a list of all these uh baseball teams and the cities that they were from then i started cleaning and i don't know where i even put that paper i yeah i was just cleaning and throwing\n \t\n \t\n \t\tthrew it away oh gosh let's see the teams that i think the A's were in it last year the Oakland A's and i think it was\n \t\ti don't think it was an all California baseball\n \t\n \t\n \t\twell have you ever played baseball\n \t\n \t\n \t\ti play softball\n \t\n \t\n \t\twell that's what i did when i was growing up\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah\n \t\n \t\n \t\tthat was fun\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah that's fun that's a whole different sport\n \t\n \t\n \t\tuh-huh\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah\n \t\tlet's see but i think i think the Rangers need to go and i think the Pirates will go\n \t\tand uh\n \t\tlet's see\n \t\tRangers have got a new guy this year i don't remember his name either\n \t\n \t\n \t\tdo you ever go see the Rangers\n \t\n \t\n \t\tevery once in a while i i like to go on the nights when there's not anybody out there not very many people out there it's a lot more fun when you're not fighting a crowd\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah i think it's fun i like just looking at the billboards\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah but sometimes when i if you go out there during the day you just fry under the sun\n \t\n \t\n \t\t\n \n \t\tyeah it's nice at night\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah\n \t\n \t\n \t\tthat's when i've been\n \t\n \t\n \t\tit is\n \t\n \t\n \t\t\n \n \t\n \t\n \t\tand and do you know anything about that new stadium have you seen all those pictures that they're going to put out there\n \t\n \t\n \t\twell\n \t\tno\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah that that huge it's suppose to be a huge stadium and it's going to have little shopping centers in it and little like a lake or something running through it and uh they're going to try to make it a real community center out there\n \t\n \t\n \t\tand you're going to be able to buy your what was no wait\n \t\n \t\n \t\tof course\n \t\n \t\n \t\twhat was it about the liquor\n \t\n \t\n \t\tthat's that's in uh Texas stadium where the football players play\n \t\n \t\n \t\twas that\n \t\t\n \n \t\toh yeah see you just\n \t\n \t\n \t\tand they're never going to let liquor in there\n \t\n \t\n \t\twell they're trying\n \t\n \t\n \t\ti know but they try every year and every year they get thrown out\n \t\tit's so stupid because they let you take it in there but they don't they don't allow you to sell it don't allow them to sell it there\n \t\n \t\n \t\tuh-huh\n \t\n \t\n \t\tbut uh that new stadium's going to be real nice and i heard that there's uh\n \t\tthat you can bid on that stadium last night on the news i heard they said you could you could bid on the stadium to have it named after you\n \t\n \t\n \t\tkind of right\n \t\n \t\n \t\tit's going to it's going to go to the highest bidder\n \t\n \t\n \t\toh\n \t\n \t\n \t\t\n \n \t\n \t\n \t\twell that's the way to do it\n \t\n \t\n \t\tso\n \t\tyeah so that could be your you know fifteen minutes of fame\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyou hear that that's my kids turning on their music let me see Holly turn it down\n \t\n \t\n \t\toh\n \t\n \t\n \t\ti think it's the Bartman the Simpsons\n \t\n \t\n \t\toh God i stay away from them\n \t\n \t\n \t\t\n \n \t\ti wish i could\n \t\n \t\n \t\ti bet you do\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah well where are you\n \t\n \t\n \t\tin Plano\n \t\n \t\n \t\tokay i'm in Garland\n \t\n \t\n \t\toh you are\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah my husband my husband teaches in Plano\n \t\n \t\n \t\toh what's he teach\n \t\n \t\n \t\tC V A E\n \t\n \t\n \t\tuh-huh\n \t\tso what do you do\n \t\n \t\n \t\ti teach but i teach for Dallas\n \t\n \t\n \t\toh you do\n \t\n \t\n \t\tfor right now i'm trying to get out\n \t\n \t\n \t\tis that a tough system to be in\n \t\n \t\n \t\tuh-huh\n \t\n \t\n \t\treal hard\n \t\n \t\n \t\tuh-huh i mean it's good because they they try new things you know but it's like\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah i would think it\n \t\n \t\n \t\tthey'll try something and then they throw it out and get something else you know and you get tired of that\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah\n \t\tthat's typical bureaucracy though that's that's i think it's going to be any where you go it's just worse in the bigger cities than it is in the smaller ones i don't know sometimes the smaller ones are just as bad\n \t\n \t\n \t\t\n \n \t\tyeah\n \t\twell but they can't be though they don't have as much money\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah but the politics the politics gets worse in the small towns sometimes\n \t\n \t\n \t\tmost the time\n \t\toh man but in Dallas you don't even know who's in in administration there's so many of them\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyou don't even know who to payoff huh\n \t\n \t\n \t\ti mean somebody walks in the classroom and you don't know what they're there for you know when they're coming how long they're going to be\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah\n \t\toh how funny\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyou know it's just them there they are and they're writing the whole time\n \t\n \t\n \t\tno communication whatsoever\n \t\n \t\n \t\tno i had them walk out of my class and not say their name anything and i finally got to where i go okay i'm Debbie Moore you know may i ask who you are and what you are in my classroom for\n \t\n \t\n \t\t\n \n \t\n \t\n \t\tyou know because you know you never know where they're going what they'll report or\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah\n \t\ti know\n \t\n \t\n \t\tand they'll tell you they've written something down and you\n \t\n \t\n \t\tand you haven't you and you never see it\n \t\n \t\n \t\thope they're telling you\n \t\t\n \n \t\tno huh-uh\n \t\n \t\n \t\tthat's got to be frustrating\n \t\n \t\n \t\toh it is\n \t\n \t\n \t\thow long have you taught taught Dallas schools\n \t\n \t\n \t\tuh this is my eleventh year\n \t\n \t\n \t\tooh that's about uh ten too many\n \t\n \t\n \t\tno actually it's now my job's\n \t\tgood much better than a lot\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah\n \t\tuh-huh\n \t\n \t\n \t\tbecause i'm Chapter One and all i do is teach reading all day long\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah\n \t\toh\n \t\n \t\n \t\tand it's just ten children at a time\n \t\n \t\n \t\twell that's not bad\n \t\n \t\n \t\tno it's good and you've got a lot of federal money too\n \t\n \t\n \t\tbut hasn't it changed a lot over the years\n \t\n \t\n \t\tteaching oh yes\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah\n \t\tor working in the system\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyes when i first started teaching i remember i went up to my job and i said okay i want to see a curriculum guide you know so i'll know what i'm suppose to teach and they go\n \t\twe don't have one of we don't even know where one is\n \t\n \t\n \t\t\n \n \t\toh God\n \t\n \t\n \t\tand i go okay i mean you just you did what you wanted to do\n \t\n \t\n \t\toh\n \t\thow funny\n \t\n \t\n \t\tand now they tell you what to teach and how long and\n \t\tyou know what day\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah you don't know which is you don't know which is worse\n \t\n \t\n \t\twhat period\n \t\tyeah no i know which is worse\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah i guess so yeah being told what to do is worse\n \t\n \t\n \t\t\n \n \t\tum-hum\n \t\n \t\n \t\tso how long are we suppose to talk for\n \t\n \t\n \t\twell you can talk for ten minutes but you don't have to\n \t\n \t\n \t\toh you can\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah and no if you talk to ten then they come over on and say oh you've extended your limit and please say good-bye within the next five seconds\n \t\n \t\n \t\toh i haven't ever talked that long\n \t\n \t\n \t\twell you know i hadn't either till last night i was talking to this retired administrator from Cleveland Ohio we started talking about gangs you know\n \t\n \t\n \t\toh how funny\n \t\the lives in Cleveland\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah\n \t\n \t\n \t\twow\n \t\n \t\n \t\tand everybody else that i've talked to has been right around here\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah\n \t\n \t\n \t\tbut she was real interesting\n \t\n \t\n \t\thuh\n \t\n \t\n \t\tand then tonight this woman called have you taken any incoming calls\n \t\n \t\n \t\tthe yours is my second one\n \t\n \t\n \t\tokay so hers was the first one i got\n \t\tgotten and uh\n \t\toh she was telling me all her problems\n \t\n \t\n \t\t\n \n \t\n \t\n \t\tand it went over ten minutes\n \t\n \t\n \t\tdid she did she did you all not talk about the topic at all\n \t\n \t\n \t\twell yeah we did but the topic was boring i thought what would you serve uh if you were having a dinner party\n \t\n \t\n \t\toh\n \t\toh gosh\n \t\t\n \n \t\twhat was i'm trying to remember oh the other the one i talked about the other night was good it was\n \t\tum about movies you know who what have you seen at the movies lately and stuff like that\n \t\n \t\n \t\toh yeah i could go on and on about that\n \t\n \t\n \t\tme too because we go all the time the guy i was talking to never goes he was boy it sounds like your really up on this and i said i see at least two a week so\n \t\n \t\n \t\tooh neat\n \t\n \t\n \t\tthat was real good to talk about that have you seen like uh Silence Of The Lambs\n \t\n \t\n \t\tno\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyou've got to go see that\n \t\n \t\n \t\tthe last one i saw was Dances Of The With The Wolves Of The Wolves\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah we talked about that one too and he he said he didn't think it should of gotten all those awards he thought it was too long but\n \t\n \t\n \t\toh i enjoyed it i mean it was just more for my money\n \t\n \t\n \t\ti\n \t\ti did too\n \t\tyeah i didn't think it was too long at all\n \t\tum he said after about the first hour he started looking at his watch\n \t\n \t\n \t\thuh\n \t\n \t\n \t\tthe other one you need to go see is Sleeping With The Enemy\n \t\n \t\n \t\tuh-huh\n \t\n \t\n \t\tand how old are your kids\n \t\n \t\n \t\tone is eight and one is eleven\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyou probably don't want to take them to see Silence Of The Lambs\n \t\tit's it's not it's not too cool for kids\n \t\n \t\n \t\tthey usually pick their own\n \t\n \t\n \t\ti bet they do\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyou know they've got it all figured out\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah they want to see all the horror movies\n \t\n \t\n \t\twell and Ninja Turtles\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah Ninja Turtles got to have those\n \t\n \t\n \t\tbut most of the time really we watch them on the video\n \t\tdon't you just massive rental\n \t\n \t\n \t\toh yeah you bring that's well heck that's a lot cheaper then uh taking them out to the show\n \t\n \t\n \t\tgoing to\n \t\ti know\n \t\n \t\n \t\tespecially if you get them for a couple of nights you don't have to watch them all at one night one time\n \t\n \t\n \t\tthat's what we do especially when it's bad weather man just\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah\n \t\n \t\n \t\tplug it in\n \t\n \t\n \t\tof course you have to get there early if you want to get anything\n \t\n \t\n \t\ti know\n \t\n \t\n \t\tdecent\n \t\twell\n \t\n \t\n \t\tit's good when you go to Tom Thumb though and they're cheap and nobody's got them yet unbelievable\n \t\n \t\n \t\tthat's true\n \t\tthat's true we saw um\n \t\tHeroes Has Always Been Cowboys tonight\n \t\n \t\n \t\tuh-huh\n \t\n \t\n \t\tit was okay it was kind of slow and i felt like it kind of got chopped off at the end you know\n \t\tit just it and i don't know it one of those movies it's not going to be around long it'll be a dollar movie in no time\n \t\n \t\n \t\tdo you read\n \t\n \t\n \t\tnot very much no\n \t\n \t\n \t\tno\n \t\n \t\n \t\ti don't have the patience to read\n \t\n \t\n \t\tsee i do that to make myself go to sleep at night\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah oh my mom and dad read all the time\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyou saw Field Of the Dreams right a long time ago\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyeah sure did\n \t\n \t\n \t\tso i was reading the book and it's called Shoeless Joe\n \t\n \t\n \t\toh really\n \t\n \t\n \t\tit was so wonderful and then i was um i decided well i like this author so i got a uh book of his short stories and that's been real good\n \t\n \t\n \t\twho's the who's the author\n \t\n \t\n \t\tdon't don't ask me The Ghost Of Shoeless Joe was the name of the book\n \t\n \t\n \t\toh\n \t\t\n \n \t\tShoeless Joe was it like the movie\n \t\n \t\n \t\tyes quite a quite a bit but you know in the movie the guy was black\n \t\n \t\n \t\tokay\n \t\tright\n \t\n \t\n \t\the wasn't in the book\n \t\n \t\n \t\thuh\n \t\n \t\n \t\tthat's one difference\n \t\tthere really wasn't a lot of difference\n \t\n \t\n \t\ti didn't uh see i never even heard that there was a book tied in with that movie\n \t\n \t\n \t\tum-hum\n \t\n \t\n \t\tthat's interesting\n \t\n \t\n \t\tso\n \t\n \t\n \t\tthat was a good movie too\n \t\n \t\n \t\twell do you think we've covered baseball\n \t\n \t\n \t\ti think so\n \t\n \t\n \t\tokay well have a good night\n \t\t\n \t\t\n \t\n", "mode": "spoken", "name": "sw2078-ms98-a-trans", "class": "telephone"}
{"subclass": null, "text_id": "written/blog/Acephalous-Cant-believe", "text": "\n\n\n\nI can't believe I wrote all that last year.\nAcephalous\n\nFriday, 07 May 2010\n\n\n\nBecause I've been grading all damn day and am as tired as a Swearengen of hearing\nother about the finished semesters of pretty much every other academic blogger,\nI thought that it might be best to avoid jealously lashing out and scribble a\n\"Best of Acephalous 2009\" post. However, when I started\nlooking through my archives, it occurred to me that my output this year defines\nme much more sharply than in years past. What do I mean? \nThe posts I consider foundational to my current professional identity all seem to\nhave been composed in 2009. Granted, the likelihood that I'm suffering from the\nidentitarian equivalent of presentism is awfully high, but I honestly thought\nI'd written some of the posts from early 2009 in 2006 or so. (It may also be\nthat I remember the scene of their writing, which would have been in the old\napartment, i.e. the place I barely remember ever having\nlived in anymore.) If you have absolutely nothing better to do on a Friday\nnight, feel free to scan through my 2009\narchives and tell me what you think should be included in the \"Best of\"\npost. \nIf you do have something better to do, though, by all means do\nit . \n\nPosted at 05:50 PM\n\n\n\n\nComments\n\n\nWhy is someone so young not having fun with friends on a Friday night.\nGranted grading papers is important, but no fun makes for a boring life. I\nshould know. /since, when I was your age I had fun playing with my adorable\nson and caring for another baby. You need to try to have a life outside your\ncomputer. Just saying....it seems I have more life now then you have and we\nknow how little I get out!\n Posted by: alkau | Saturday, 08 May 2010 at 10:11 AM \n\n\n The one that really stuck in my mind was explaining transitions in the panels of Watchmen . I'd\nread Watchmen a short while before and appreciated its narrative complexity,\nbut not being used to reading comics, hadn't registered all the technical\ntricks that the artist was using to achieve this. The post not only taught\nme something about the grammar of such images, but more importantly led to\nme realising that there is a grammar to look for in the first place. So\nthanks a lot for that one.\n Posted by: magistra | Saturday, 08 May 2010 at 03:05 PM\n\n\nSEK, I started going through your back posts and noticed a pattern in my\nselections, so I think it would be easier (for me, because I'm rubbish with\nhtml) to just say all the scene analysis posts and the close reading comics\nposts, like the one Magistra mentioned and many others after that. Plus\nJustifying Comics as a Legitimate Object of Study Parts I & II. I also\nliked \"Teaching the Overdetermined Image.\" Your takedown of Cashill and the\nwhole Ayers-wrote-Dreams was excellent, and the Cruel_cruel_death post (you\nknow what I'm talking about, right?).\n\nAlso, The Day in Actual Communist and Real Nazi History seems as relevant\ntoday as ever.\n Posted by: Caio | Saturday, 08 May 2010 at 06:49 PM\n\n\n\nAgree with the previous two comments. I don't remember if you've made noises\nhere before about turning these into a book, but if you do you've got at\nleast one reader.\n Posted by: Martin Wisse | Sunday, 09 May 2010 at 01:19 AM\n\n\n\nWhat happened to your post that appeared in my RSS reader yesterday?\n Posted by: tomemos | Sunday, 09 May 2010 at 09:16 AM\n\n\n\n\nWould it be possible to arrange your posts into three 'parties', and give\nyour many readers the opportunity to 'vote' for one of them, by 'secret\nballot'? I feel your British readers would appreciate that.\n Posted by: Adam Roberts | Sunday, 09 May 2010 at 10:57 AM \n\n\n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "Acephalous-Cant-believe", "class": "blog"}
{"subclass": null, "text_id": "written/blog/Acephalous-Internet", "text": "\n\n\n\n\nWednesday, 19 May 2010\n\nThe Internet occasionally reminds me of how different life is because of\nit.\n\nI noted on Facebook that, from a statistical perspective, what makes baseball such an\namazing sport is that you can watch it your entire life and still see, on a daily basis,\nsomething you\u2019ve never seen before. (It\u2019s a truism, I know, but it has the benefit of actually\nbeing true.) In this case, the something in question was watching the wonderfully named Angel\nPagan hit an inside-the-park home run and initiate a triple play in the same game. John Emerson responded with some humbug about it\nnot being an inside-the-park grand slam, which made me remember that I had seen an inside-the-park grand slam at some time in the remote past.\nI remember being six or seven years old and watching the Mets play the Cardinals in an\nafternoon game at Shea Stadium, and thanks to the miracle of the Internet, I can definitively say that at approximately 4:30\np.m. on 9 June 1985 , I watched Terry Pendleton hit an inside-the-park grand slam off Joe\nSambito in a game the Cardinals would go on to win handily. The fact that I can verify vague\nmemories of events that occurred twenty-five years ago astounds me in a way I sometimes forget\nthe Internet is capable of doing.\nThis realization is obviously not of world-historical importance, merely a reminder that this\nthing whose existence we take for granted daily represents a fundamentally weird complement to\nhuman memory. The fact that at some point in the future I can know who I rode in an elevator\nwith on 28 December 2005 is less weird because I chose to write\nabout riding in an elevator with Grimace . That I can access detailed information about\nevents I have no right remembering in detail is another matter entirely.\n\n\n\n\n\nJoe Sambito. Wow. I'd completely forgotten about him. I sometimes wish I could forget that\nPendelton is the Braves hitting coach. Closest I came to that was watching Dale Murphy get\ntagged out at the plate on what would have been an inside-the-park slam.\n Posted by: Chuck | Wednesday, 19 May 2010 at 06:16 PM \n\n\nHe pitched for the Astros before he came to the Mets, stayed for '85, then he pitched for\nthe Red Sox against the Mets in '86 World Series. I remember him being ineffective, and as it\nturns out, he was . Now that I remember him, which I didn't before, I remember him as\nbeing the pitcher who'd pitched for 1) the team the Mets faced to get to the '86 Series and 2)\nthe one they faced in it. I didn't remember that I remember that, but now that I do, I do.\nMemory, as Gertrude Stein would say, is funny.\nPosted by: SEK | Wednesday, 19 May 2010 at 06:27 PM\n\n\nApparently the drug use, sexual excess, and weird UCI experiences haven't softened your\nbrain yet.\n\nWhat's really bothersome, though, is when you only remember things from your distant\npast. \n\nMy grandpa was alert till the end, but when I last saw him at age 92 everything he wanted to\ntalk about was 70 years in the past.\n\nPosted by: John Emerson | Wednesday, 19 May 2010 at 07:02 PM\n\n\nA guess, but perhaps your grandfather's life at 22 was more interesting than the ensuing 70\nyrs. \n\n Posted by: M. Bouffant | Wednesday, 19 May 2010 at 08:54 PM\n\n\nYou know what makes this post great? No stinking cricket.\n Posted by: tomemos | Wednesday, 19 May 2010 at 09:04 PM \n\n\n\nYeah, I remember Sambito from the Astros (when the Braves were in the old NL West because it\nmade sense to have a team 3,000 miles from most of their division rivals). Solid pitcher for a\nwhile. But burned out toward the end. Apparently, he is a player's representative now.\n Posted by: Chuck | Thursday, 20 May 2010 at 12:14 PM \n\n >Prosthetic memory. Posted by: Endy | Thursday, 20 May 2010 at\n02:35 PM \n\n\n\nI like to read about others watching baseball more than I like to watch baseball by a factor\nof nine. Having given up on watching the actual sport, mention of baseball now only sparks\nmemories of The Old Man and the Sea and the old time baseball writers. It is true that at the\nend of time, the old time baseball writers will be hailed as the very best writers, as they\nhad access to an event that was susceptible to beautiful writing, but horrendous to watch in\nperson. Plus, they smoked a prodigious quantity of cigarettes. \n\nnota bene: An overdue library book is a crime against Humanities. \n Posted by: THE LIBRARY | Friday, 21 May 2010 at 11:17 PM\n\n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "Acephalous-Internet", "class": "blog"}
{"subclass": null, "text_id": "written/blog/Anti-Terrorist", "text": "\n\n\n\nThe Anti-Terrorist - Undermining The Motivation For Terrorism\n\n By Rev. Bill McGinnis , Director - LoveAllPeople.org\n\n This website and everything on it is in the Public Domain, so you may use it freely, even\nwithout attribution. \n\n\n\n\nBACKGROUND , September 11, 2004\n Three years have now gone by since the September 11th attacks in 2001, and terrorism is a far\ngreater threat to us now than it was then. The number and severity of terrorist attacks\nworldwide has increased dramatically, as has the number of active terrorists. Before 9/11,\nterrorism was confined to a small number of extremist individuals, loosely linked by radical\nIslam and hatred of Israel and its sole supporter, the USA. Now, many more moderate Muslims have\nbecome radicalized, world-wide, willing to kill innocent civilians in order to achieve their\npurposes. And the serious targets have expanded to include civilians in Russia, India, Maylasia,\nthe Philippines, Spain, and elsewhere, as well as Israel and its sole supporter, the United\nStates. True, the USA has not suffered a successful major attack since 9/11, but this does\nnot mean that we are safer. The terrorists could strike any time they choose, through any of\nthe numerous loopholes so well reported in our media. But they have chosen not to attack,\nperhaps because they are waiting to produce an effect even greater than the 9/11 attacks, so\nthey do not appear to be losing strength. What could be more spectacular than the 9/11 attacks?\nNuclear! Or massive bio-chemical attack! And I think this is what they are waiting for. All of\nour frantic preparations may have had some effect in preventing small-time casual attacks, but\nthey cannot stop a serious planned attack, any more than a mere door lock can stop a serious\nrobber who really wants to get into your house. So the Bush administration can keep\nclaiming that we are safer now, under their policies. But this claim is merely feel-good\npropaganda, intended to keep the neo-cons in power. It cannot withstand clear-headed scrutiny.\nThe fact is, Bush policies have failed completely even to diminish terrorism, much less defeat\nit. By trying to \"stamp out\" terrorism by killing terrorists, Bush and Israel have made things\ninfinitely worse for us: more dangerous, not safer. And proof that Bush has failed may come at\nany moment, explosively, with one big successful attack here in the USA. May God help\nus all. \nWHAT IS TERRORISM?\n TERRORISM is \"the systematic use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a\npopulation and thereby to bring about a particular political objective.\" Source: Britannica.com\nhttp://www.britannica.com/search?query=terrorism&ct= We believe that any terrorist act\nis a crime against humanity and against the will of God, because it deliberately intends to\ninjure and kill innocent people. \n\nNEUTRALIZING TERRORISM\n Our purpose here is to NEUTRALIZE TERRORISM by removing the motivation for it. Without\nmotivation, terrorism will quickly die down, like a plant without water. \n We completely reject the idea that terrorism can be defeated by brute force, because brute\nforce radicalizes the moderates, and they then join the terrorists. So you end up fighting the\nentire population. Brute force has failed in Palestine, and it is failing in Iraq. \n We try to be even-handed in opposing all terrorism, although we recognize that the greatest\nterrorist threat in the world today comes from radical Muslims who falsely believe that Allah\napproves of their criminal behavior against Israel, The United States, Russia, India, the\nPhilippines, Australia, and others whom they falsely believe to be \"waging war against Allah.\"\nAnd the second-greatest terrorist threat comes from several countries, mainly Israel, who\nsometimes resort to terrorism themselves, claiming \"self-defense,\" as they desperately try to\nprevent further attacks by radical Muslims. In all of these cases above, if the radical Muslims\nwould cease their attacks, all terrorism on both sides of every dispute would quickly end. \n Beyond these two sources, there is virtually no terrorist activity in the world, with the\npossible exception of localized disputes such as in Northern Ireland and occasional domestic\nepisodes in various places involving isolated disaffected groups. \n\nThe moral and religious theories which support terrorism are quite faulty and\nerroneous. They need to be identified and attacked. If the terrorist loses faith in the\nrighteousness of his acts, he is less likely to perform them. \n\n\nEXAMPLE 1: \"Terrorists\nOffend Allah.\"\n\n\nEXAMPLE 2: \"Terrorist\nMurderers Insult Allah, Bring Shame To Islam\"\n\n\nEXAMPLE 3 (LATEST AND BEST!\n- Framed Below): \"Qur'an Forbids Terrorism\"\n\n\nIn every case of terrorism, we will find some kind of legitimate underlying\ngrievance. If we eliminate the legitimate grievances, we have eliminated much of the\nmotivation. \n Is this \"negotiating with terrorists\" or \"trying to appease the terrorists,\" as some\nIsraeli/NeoCons would try to say? No. It is simply recognizing the realities of human\nmotivation, right or wrong. To deny reality, as the Israeli/NeoCons do, is to invite disaster,\nas they have done. \n\nBIG PICTURE\n\nA big picture of our entire Anti-Terrorism strategy can be found at our website\n=> http://www.loveallpeople.org/defeatingterrorism.html . \n\n\n\n Blessings to you. May God help us all. \n\nBlessings to you. May God help us all. \n\n Rev. Bill McGinnis, Director - LoveAllPeople.org\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "Anti-Terrorist", "class": "blog"}
{"subclass": null, "text_id": "written/blog/blog-jet-lag", "text": "\n \n \n Jet Lag: Pathophysiology and Cures\n The longest Monday of my life\n \nI recently returned to the US from Australia. The 14-hour flight took me from Monday morning in Sydney to Monday\nmorning, again, in L.A. Crossing the date line messed up my sense of time enough without the added bonus of thinking I\nshould be heading to bed just as the sun began to climb into the California sky.\n\nYou may be familiar with the concept: Jet lag. The catch-all name for circadian misalignment, the disruption of sleep\ncycles and circadian rhythms. If you've had the pleasure of crossing time zones in a jet plane, whether it was a mere\nthree-hour hop from one coast of the US to the other or a trip to another continent, chances are, you've experienced\nsome amount of jet lag. \n\nThe pathophysiology of jet lag\n\nNormally, two systems--the homeostatic system and the circadian system--work together to produce a 24-hour sleep\ncycle. During the day, the homeostatic system slowly accumulates a 'sleep drive,' a desire to sleep that increases as a\nfunction of time spent awake. The circadian system generates an alerting signal in opposition to this sleep drive,\nwhich, during the day, keeps a person from feeling increasingly sleepy. An hour or two before bedtime, this signal\nsubsides, and s/he realizes it's time to hit the pillow. The sleep drive dissipates as a person sleeps and by morning\n(assuming a full night's rest and possibly some coffee), s/he will be feeling alert and ready to go again.\n\nRobert Sack wrote a delightful paper [PDF] on jet lag, by the way, which is\nwhere I'm getting much of my information. \n\nSo we've got a nice cycle of sleep. Jet lag is what happens when the homeostatic and circadian processes are\nmisaligned. For example, the circadian system may signal a person to be alert when it's not actually morning, or may be\nreduced during daytime hours, causing daytime sleepiness because the homeostatic sleep drive is no longer cancelled\nout. \n\nBut I don't want to be sleepy!\n\nHow do you beat jet lag? Robert Sack lists three primary approaches: \n\n\nReset the body clock\nPrescribed sleep scheduling\nMedication to counteract daytime sleepiness or insomnia\n\n\n\nLet's start with the first one, as it turns out to be the most complicated. \n\nResetting the body clock\n\nThe two most effective ways to reset the body clock are 1) through bright light exposure, and 2) timed melatonin\nadministration. \n\nLight is one of the most important cues about time of day and has the greatest effect on circadian timing (much\nsmaller effects are seen from regular activities and meals, for example). Studies have shown that without light cues,\ntotally blind people tend to have free-running circadian\nrhythms with an average period of 24.5 hours, instead of the usual 24. If a person is exposed to bright light early in\nthe day, the person's internal clock is reset to an earlier time; if exposure is instead in the evening, the internal\nclock is reset to a later time. Brighter light has more of an effect (such as the sun, at 3000 to 10,000 lux), though\nlower intensities (e.g., 100-550 lux) can produce changes.\n\nArtificial light sources can be used to supplement daylight, to help reset a person's internal clock to the correct\nnew time zone when traveling. Alternatively, a person could wear very dark glasses, as light avoidance could help\nminimize the problems of light exposure at the wrong time of day or night. \n\nResetting the body clock, Part 2: Melatonin\n\nMelatonin is a hormone that has been linked to the regulation of circadian rhythms and sleep cycles\n[PDF]. Melatonin is secreted by the pineal gland at night; secretion is suppressed by light exposure, and as such, the\nhormone can be thought of as a \"darkness signal.\" If doses of melatonin are administered in the morning, circadian\nrhythms will be shifted later; evening doses shift rhythms earlier. Timing of the doses is more important than amount\nper dose, though it remains to be seen what the optimal dose and optimal time of administration is--trials have been\ndone with doses from 0.5 to 10mg, at times ranging from three days before departure to five days after arrival in the\nnew time zone.\n\nIf doses of melatonin are combined with light exposure, the results are what you might expect: synergistic if both\nare administered to produce a time shift in the same direction (both earlier or both later); antagonistic otherwise.\n\nSleep, wake, sleep, wake\n\nThe second way to beat jet lag: Sleep at weird times. Slowly adjust your sleep schedule to match that of your\ndestination, or keep your home sleep schedule for a while after you arrive. The problem with this is that your\nsleep-wake schedule won't match up with that of the people around you, and if you need to be awake for breakfast at 7am\nor for a meeting in the afternoon, your sleep schedule may interfere. Use this method at your own risk. \n\nDrugs for everything\n\nLastly, we have sleep medicines. As you might guess, hypnotic medications combat insomnia and stimulants fight off\ndaytime sleepiness pretty well, because by definition, that's what they do. Both benzodiazepine and non-benzodiazepine\ndrugs have been shown to be effective in the first case; for the latter, the most common solution is to consume more coffee [PDF]. This works! In the study\nlinked, subjects were treated with slow-release caffeine or with melatonin prior to a long eastward flight; the caffeine\nsubjects were less sleepy than either melatonin or placebo. Granted, caffeine subjects also took longer to fall asleep\nlater and awoke more frequently, but that may be a risk you have to take. \n\nLagging behind\n\nLight, melatonin, drugs, strange sleep schedules. Of course, the only solution that will always work is time. The\nhomeostatic and circadian processes need to realign, and while the aforementioned ways of beating jet lag can fast track\nthe process, it still takes time. \n\nUPDATE: ; I was alerted by a friend of the existence further research of which I was\nunaware: Another way to reset your sleep-wake cycle is to stop eating . If you fast for about 12 to 16 hours, your body clock will reset, with whatever time\nyou break your fast as morning. The Fuller, Lu, & Saper paper\n[PDF], published in Science , discusses the mechanism, though a more recent paper argues that the Fuller et al. results are inconclusive .\n \n \n", "mode": "written", "name": "blog-jet-lag", "class": "blog"}
{"subclass": null, "text_id": "written/blog/blog-monastery", "text": "\n \n \n Tibetan Buddhist Retreat\n\n \nFaded squares of fabric, strung together in repeating blue-white-red-green-yellow chains, crisscross the branches of\nbare-limbed trees. The gentle wind makes them flutter. Orange-gold light filters into the grassy meadow, touching a row\nof canvas tents and the temple house beyond. Tsechen Kunchab Ling : Temple of All-Encompassing Great Compassion. This is the seat of His Holiness\nthe Sakya Trizin in the United States, a Tibetan Buddhist monastery established nine years ago.\n\nI spent the past weekend there. The field work office at my college arranges this retreat every semester. Everyone\nI've talked to who has previously attended says wonderful things about it; this semester, one of my friends told me she\nwas going: I should join her! I like learning new things, so I signed up. A good decision: I didn't return all chill and\nzen, as one friend told me his roommate had, but I certainly gained a few new ideas and approaches to mull over, and\ndipped my hand into a previously unfamiliar piece of the world.\n\nMedicine for one's mind\n\nThe first evening, the twenty-something students--most from my college, four from another--gathered in the shrine\nroom, sitting cross-legged on cushions as we listened to Khenpo Kalsang introduce Tibetan Buddhist philosophy. He began\nby telling us, \"Do not take any of what I say on faith. Take it through analysis, if there is some benefit in it for\nyou.\" Religion, he said, is like a drugstore full of medicine. You do not go to the drugstore and buy everything in\nit--you just buy what would be beneficial to you now. You believe the other medicine may have just as much value, but in\nother situations, not this one.\n\nWe discussed the foundations: the Three Turnings of the Wheel of Dharma; the four noble truths; karma; defilements;\nthe six perfections. When we talked about the giving, and how one should try to give what one could to other sentient\nbeings (in the form of material items, kind words, protection, and so on), Khenpo Kalsang shared a story of the Buddha,\nand how the Buddha had given his flesh so that a family of hungry tigers could eat. \"So,\" a fellow student asked,\n\"Giving one's life for another being is the ultimate gift?\"\n\nKhenpo Kalsang, he smiled, and shook his head. \"Only if you feel no regret,\" he said. \"If you feel regret, it\ndestroys the merit.\" Until then, preserve your own life, and do not give away anything that would cause you regret. This\nstruck a chord. Self-preservation above all else, unless the right situation arises.\n\nKnowing and understanding\n\nLater, I talked to the resident nun, Ani Kunga, about psychology and cognitive science. She had studied psychology\nfor a while in grad school, but now holds the view that psychologists are going about understanding the mind and\nunderstanding the knower and what knowing is the wrong way. \"Psychologists,\" she said, \"study the brain and the self\nexternally. Ever since the 1920s, their science has been about observation of behavior, questionnaires, recordings of\nelectrical brain activity. But the mind can only be known by you, the person whose mind it is.\" She said\nphilosophy and epistemology were doing it right: looking at experiences from the inside.\n\nA big overlap exists between Tibetan Buddhism, psychology and cognitive science. All three examine the distinction\nbetween the self and others, between the observer and the observed, between knowing and the knower. I agree with Ani\nKunga to some extent--only so much can be known about the mind from external observation. But this doesn't mean that\nthere isn't merit to such studies, nor that nothing of use can be learned in that way.\n\nTibetan Buddhist philosophy also approaches the mind and the self from the inside. During a second philsophy session,\nKhenpo Kalsang translated a sutra about a king who received advice from the Buddha. This sutra delved into some\nquestions about the nature of the self, whether the self is a delusion, and how the clinging of self is a defilement. I\nintend to discuss it in more depth later, so stay tuned.\n\nCompassion training and prayer flags\n\nIn the afternoon, a group of us gathered outside for a meditation session with Ani Kunga. Sunshine melted lazily\nthrough the tree branches above, a breeze animating the branches' shadows so they danced between our cushions.\nCompassion and anger were the session's topics. The key message: \n\n\"If there's something you can do, why are you unhappy? Just do it. If there's nothing you can do, why are you\nunhappy?\"\n\nAni Kunga explained several off-session and one on-session technique for dealing with negative emotions (anger, hate,\nirritation, stress, jealousy, and so on). All the methods built off the idea that you are in control: anger is an\nemotion, and you can change your emotions. Stay tuned for a more in-depth post on the topic.\n\nAnother of the day's activities was making prayer flags. As Ani Kunga explained, \"Prayers, wishes, hopes,\naspirations--someone, many people, may share those with you. Hanging the prayer flag shares your prayer with everyone\nelse in the world. This may do no good at all, but it may--if everyone hopes and wishes and dreams and aspires, perhaps\nit will do good. It may not. But if no one shares their prayers, it will certainly do no good.\nSo on the offchance that it will help, why not?\"\n\nNever done\n\nThis weekend reminded me that I'm not done learning. If I stay still long enough, if I've achieved a relatively\nconstant level of happiness and satisfaction, I forget that I can and should continue to seek out new ideas and\napproaches, and incorporate beneficial ones into my life. A person is never \"done,\" and so, I'll continue to observe and\ndiscuss and study, trying to pick the directions in which I'll change, and trying to make tomorrow better than\ntoday.\n\nEver onward and ever upward.\n \n \n", "mode": "written", "name": "blog-monastery", "class": "blog"}
{"subclass": null, "text_id": "written/blog/blog-new-year's-resolutions", "text": "\n \n \n Self-control, Self-efficacy, and New Year's Resolutions\n Unresolved\n \nI'm not one to make New Year's resolutions.\n\nI mean, sure, I could take my pick of popular New Year's resolutions ; I could decide, on the\nfirst day of the new year, that this year, I'll start exercising more and eating better, or that I'll spend more time\nwith my family and friends, or that I'll learn a new skill. And if I chose to make resolutions, I'd be far from alone--a\n2008 survey on Dorthy.com found that 66% of the 2000+ adults polled\nhad made resolutions at some point (though only 17% managed to keep them).\n\nMaking resolutions: It's about self-control\n\nThe question Anirban Mukhopadhyay of the Hong Kong University and Gita Venkatarmani Johar of the Graduate School of\nBusiness at Columbia University asked is this: What determines how many goals a person will set, and\nhow successful a person will be at achieving those goals? They performed a few studies in 2005 to look at the\nrelationship between self-control, goal setting, and goal achievement. They suggested that what you believe about self-control affects the\ngoals you set and achieve [PDF].\n\nIn the paper, \"self-control\" is used to mean a sense of willpower. Mukhopadhyay & Venkatarmani discuss various\nlay theories of self-control, noting that the amount of self-control a person has can be seen as either an inherently\nlimited or unlimited resource, and that this resource can be seen either as malleable or as fixed (the amount of\nself-control a person has can change over time, or not). An important premise to note here is the idea that the\nprobability of choosing a goal or making a resolution increases if a person thinks that goal can be attained. So if you\nthink you'll be able to achieve a goal, you're more likely to set it. Combine this with theories of self-control, and in\ngeneral, if you believe you have unlimited stores of self-control, you'll set a larger number of goals. If you believe\nself-control is malleable but limited, you'll set fewer goals.\n\nMukhopadhyay & Venkatarmani also discuss self-efficacy: belief in one's capabilities, the perceived ability to\ncarry out a desired action. They propose that people with high self-efficacy--people who believe that failure is the\nresult of insufficient effort, and thus exhibit increased commitment and persistence--will achieve more of their goals\nthan people with low self-efficacy, who tend to view failure as the result of deficient ability, and thus may simply\ngive up.\n\nThe studies\n\nIn the first study, 85 participants (all college students) each read one of four passages presenting lay theories of\nself-control. Each passage contained two paragraphs; the first discussed self-control either as limited or as unlimited,\nand the second discussed self-control as either malleable or fixed. The participants then answered questions about their\nbelief in each of two theories presented, followed by a second questionnaire to assess motivation, in which they listed\nall their current goals.\n\nThe study was testing whether a belief in unlimited, malleable self-control would result in most resolutions, and\nindeed, this is what was found. The experimenters had some concerns about participants' natural beliefs in relation to\nthe passages they read, however, so in study two, the order of the two measures (lay theories and motivation/goal\nlisting) was varied. Data from 130 new participants revealed that, as hypothesized, if the motivation & goals\nquestionnaire were assessed first, then among the people who believed self-control is malleable, those who also believed\nself-control to be unlimited (vs. limited) set more goals. When lay theories were assessed first, this result reversed.\nThe people who believed that self-control is fixed were unaffected by order.\n\nThe third study moved on to examine goal achievement, adding a measure to look at self-efficacy. The study had two\nsessions, in November then February. In the first session , the 159 participants read passages about lay theories (much\nlike in study one, but with longer passages to strengthen the manipulation), listed the resolutions they were planning\non making at New Years, rated how disappointed they would be if they failed to keep their resolutions, and filled out\nindividual difference measures (which included a self-efficacy scale). Only 86 participants successfully returned for\nthe second session, during which they indicated how much success they had had at keeping their resolutions.\n\nWhat does this mean for your resolutions?\n\nThe resolutions made by participants across all conditions were qualitatively similar (take a look at any list of\npopular New Year's resolutions, and you'll see the majority of the goals). As shown in the first two studies, more goals\nwere set by people who believe self-control is unlimited and malleable than by any other people--that is, if you expect\nmore success, you may increase the difficulty and number of tasks that you set for yourself. Self-efficacy did not have\na significant effect on goal-setting.\n\nAs far as success goes, only the interaction between lay theory and self-efficacy was significant. If participants\nbelieved in limited self-control and were low in self-efficacy, they tended to give up more often, failing to achieve\ntheir goals. But if participants believed in unlimited self-control, self-efficacy had no effect; participants achieved\njust as many goals regardless, and people who set more resolutions were marginally more likely to succeed.\n\nMukhopadhyay & Venkatarmani realize that their research does not directly look at the relationship between lay\ntheories of self-control and beliefs about one's own amount of self-control and self-efficacy, and propose this as an\narea for future study. But in general, lay theories about self-control can determine how much success you'll expect (and\nthus, how many goals you'll set), and self-efficacy beliefs can determine how much success you'll actually have.\n\nReferences\n \nMukhopadhyay, A. & Johar, G.V. (2005). Where There Is a Will, Is There a Way? Effects of Lay Theories of Self-Control on Setting and Keeping Resolutions. Journal of Consumer Research , 31, 779-786 [ PDF ]\n \n \n", "mode": "written", "name": "blog-new-year's-resolutions", "class": "blog"}
{"subclass": null, "text_id": "written/blog/blog-varsity-athletics", "text": "\n \n \n Varsity athletics: Credit or no?\n\n \nIt's a matter of balance\n \nVassar's varsity athletes may soon receive academic credit for participating in\ntheir sports during the school year . This proposal has been in the works for nearly two years, and at long last,\nfolks are voting to approve it. Or to not approve it, but the former seems more likely.\n\nAs a member of the Student Athlete Advisory Committee and as a long-time varsity athlete, you might say I have\nparticular stake in the proposal. After all, I could get half a unit a semester for up to four semesters--a typical\nclass is worth one unit, and a typical physical education course of any level is worth half a unit, with a maximum of\ntwo physical education units counting toward graduation requirements. It seems justified: Students can receive credit\nfor participating in other extracurricular, faculty-supervised activities, such as the orchestra, the choir, and the\nrepertory dance theatre, so why not varsity athletics?\n\nMy friend over at Carolyn Blogs agrees: from the above standpoint, sure, it seems fair to give credit to\nstudents . If you get credit for introductory P.E. classes, you should get credit for varsity athletics. But our\nschool newspaper presents other arguments in favor, which Carolyn thinks are highly unjustified:\n\nOn top of everything, we must remember that varsity athletics present a considerable time commitment. It is rare to\nfind another activity on campus\u2014academic or extracurricular\u2014that includes a comparable daily rigor and frequent\novernight obligation. Varsity athletes regularly travel throughout the northeastern to participate in meets, games and\ntournaments, often gone from campus for an entire weekend at a time. \n\nAnd you know what? Although it's certainly frustrating to travel to Boston for an all-day competition on the same\nweekend as a good friend's birthday party, a fascinating-sounding lecture, a dance party, and seventeen other campus\nevents no one in their right mind would ever want to miss, I agree with Carolyn. The reason I participate in my sport is\nbecause I enjoy it. If I cared more about other activities, I'd do those instead. Simply being a huge time commitment is\nnot a valid reason for awarding credit. Carolyn's supporting example, that higher level courses with more difficult and\nplentiful homework are worth the same amount of credit as introductory 100-level courses, drives this point home. And\nshe's backed up by our school's system of awarding units\ninstead of credit hours :\n\nThis system\u2014which in its most basic form allots one unit of credit per semester course, regardless of difficulty,\nhours in class and subject matter\u2014makes Vassar relatively unique in its credit system.\n\nAccording to Registrar Dan Giannini, \u201cThe rationale behind such a system is to try to send the message that all\ncourses are equal in worth and that one shouldn\u2019t try to distinguish between courses based on time spent in or out of\nclass.\u201d\n\nThe reason time commitment is highlighted is because, according to the authors of the article, the faculty \"must\nconsider what it can do to mitigate possible academic pressures on these students.\" Um. No, I don't think the faculty\nhas any obligation whatsoever. Students choose to be varsity athletes of their own accord. If they can't manage to\nbalance their athletics and their coursework, then perhaps they should reconsider participating in a varsity sport in\nthe first place. Athletes shouldn't get special privileges simply because they're athletes.\n\nPersonally, I like the fact that even though I dedicate huge chunks of time to my sport (more time than\nI dedicate to any single course, at least while in-season), I can still keep up with my classmates who are taking\ncomparable course loads, minus the sport. Sacrifices must be made, sure: Dance party on Friday night, or overnight\ntravel to a competition? \n\nThe question is, what's more important to me?\n\nYou learn stuff, too\n\nThe article continues:\n\n While athletes will continue to be held to the College\u2019s rigorous academic standards, the athletics credit could\ndiscourage a varsity athlete from unnecessarily taking on five academic credits while in their athletic season.\n\nWith the proposed varsity credit, the athlete seeking to assume five courses in his or her athletic season will be\nchecked with an overload form, thus encouraging the student to think twice about assuming such a large academic and\nextracurricular load.\n\nI'd like to be known that students who have trouble balancing tough course loads and time-consuming extracurriculars\nhave always had the option of taking a lighter load or dropping an extracurricular. Adding the option of a\nvarsity unit to the list doesn't make much of a difference. Students who aren't varsity athletes could add an easy P.E.\ncourse instead. Students who can balance their work and their sport will continue to do so. And let it be known, varsity\nathletes don't have to take a half unit for their sport... thus negating the need for an overload form if\ntaking five courses. \n\nCarolyn says, in response to the above quote, that \"participating in sports is optional, and should always take\nsecond place to academics.\" True, mostly. Academics are officially what college is about. Academics are what get graded.\nStudents' GPAs will, in part, determine what they are able to do with their lives. But academics are only one particular\nkind of knowledge. Carolyn's statement assumes that a student can learn more important things from academics than from\nparticipation on a sports team. Personally, though, some of the most important things I've learned about persistence,\ngoal-setting, success and excellence, effort, teamwork, leadership.... these I've learned from my sport and my coaches.\nIt's a different kind of knowledge than what one typically gains in an academic course, yes. But it's no less important.\nAnd that, I think, is the best reason for awarding credit for varsity athletics.\n \n \n", "mode": "written", "name": "blog-varsity-athletics", "class": "blog"}
{"subclass": null, "text_id": "written/blog/detroit", "text": "\n\n\n\nDetroit and the Myth of the $100 House | Uprooted, an eco/travel\nblog\n\n\n\n America's Rust Belt is a swath of cities and towns that boomed during the\nIndustrial Era and now lie -- well, rusting -- as empty remainders of glory days\npast.\nChief among these is Detroit, Motor City. The longtime center of American\nautomotive manufacturing was gutted when the Big Three car companies\nsimultaneously failed.\n\nDetroit, already plagued by corruption and crime, saw its unemployment rate\nskyrocket in 2009.\n\nWhat's left behind when an economy collapses? Cheap real estate, that's what.\n\nI'd read a New\nYork Times article about some forward-thinking artist-types who bought a house in Detroit for $1,900 . $1,900! Some of us\n(and lots of New Yorkers) pay that much in rent every month!\nIn fact, the article went on, soon a nearby house went on the market for $100.\nThe artist types notified their buddies, who moved in post haste.\nI was intrigued. Really? A $100 house? Even if it was a real\nfixer-upper, even if you really were better off tearing it down than living in\nit, that'd still be a hell of a deal. Why, out in New Mexico, where you can\nstill buy unincorporated land with no water or roads, you'd pay at least $1,000\nfor a house-sized plot of dust. So how can you buy an actual home for $100? That's literally cheaper than dirt.\n\nThe possibilities of this were fascinating. I had visions of hipsters from coast\nto coast converging in Detroit, building a new city on rock&roll. I pictured\nyoung artists owning homes, fixing up neighborhoods. I saw community gardens,\nart parks, a grassroots transformation of a city. We could take that oil-stained\nsoil and those rusted factories, and create something new and beautiful. With\nhouses going for $100, I thought, what would you have to lose\nby moving to Detroit?\nAnd so Quiet Earp and I did some research, and came up with a list of houses\nselling for under a grand. We had plenty to choose from: there were more cheap\nhouses than we would have time to visit. We picked two neighborhoods to cruise,\nand dove in.\nBut once we entered Detroit, the truth hit fast: this is a modern American ghost\ntown. The place is practically deserted. Its streets, built wide to accommodate\nheavy traffic, are mostly empty. Houses and businesses are boarded up, painted\nup, bombed out and falling down. Even in the center of the business district,\nthere's no traffic and hardly any people.\nDon't believe me? I videotaped it:\n\nIt got worse as we drove into residential areas, looking for those cheap houses.\nIn fact, I've never felt so out of place in all my life .\nEven in Chicago's South Side, where we counted five white people in an hour, I\nfelt fine just driving around; not so in Detroit. Truthfully, it wasn't about\nrace: it was about being naive. It was about driving down streets where we truly\ndid not belong and were not welcome.\n\nDetroit is a ghost town, and it's inhabited by ghosts: the only people left here\nare those who can't or won't leave. They live in deserted neighborhoods, in\nhouses with collapsed front steps and missing windows. They sit on the porch and\nwatch the cars go by, watch the deals go down, watch their neighborhoods\ncrumble. And we, driving through slowly and reading house numbers in a\nlate-model Honda, stuck out like a couple of thumbs.\nSo we sped up, and went straight to the houses. Sometimes we stopped to take a\nphoto, but mostly we didn't. Earp and I have each lived happily in the wilds of\nWest Oakland, but the danger I felt in Detroit was like nothing I'd experienced\nbefore. I was actually afraid for my life.\n\nThe New York Times correspondent wrote that his friend Mitch's $1,900 home \"had\nalready been stripped of its appliances and wiring ... But for Mitch that only\nadded to its appeal, because he now had the opportunity to renovate it with\nsolar heating, solar electricity and low-cost, high-efficiency appliances.\"\nAs for the $100 house? It \"needed some work, a hole patched, some windows\nreplaced.\"\nWell, I don't know what part of Detroit these folks live in, but the $100 houses\nI saw looked more like this:\n\nYou see, abandoned houses in this town get set on fire. No exceptions. Wherever\nwe went in those neighborhoods, one in four houses had been torched. On one\ncorner, we saw a giant banner hung across a charred front porch. We didn't slow\ndown to take a photo, but I'll paraphrase: DON'T BURN\nHOUSES DOWN! DETROIT POLICE ARE WATCHING YOU!\nExcept that they obviously aren't. People who live in this part of town are on\ntheir own. And although I and many others would love to own even a fire-scarred,\ncondemned building, the fact is that we wouldn't last a week here. Buy a $100\nhouse in Detroit, and you get a lifetime supply of sleepless nights: you'll\nspend the next several years waiting for burglars and arsonists, murderers and\ncrackheads to break in the windows.\nIt's like the Wild West without the scenery, the gold, and the hope. It's the\nRust Belt.\n\nUltimately, I do believe that change will come to Detroit. There\nwill be a green movement here ; in fact it's already being cultivated by\nforward-thinking\ngroups and \nintrepid locals . One day, this place will be reborn.\nBut right now, the NYT's story reeks of Shinola.\nTruth is, any artist-type who moves into this part of Detroit is\nprobably pretty handy with a pistol or a shotgun . Anyone who takes this\nplunge is risking their life every day, betting on a future that may take a long\ntime to arrive.\n\n\nLong story short: Yes, you can buy a house in Detroit\nfor $100. And you will get what you pay for.\n\nCheers to Toby Barlow , who inspired my trek to Detroit, and who believes in a\nhappier, greener future. May your every dream come true, sir, and your book\nsell fabulously. \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n16 Responses to \"Detroit and the Myth of the $100 House\"\n\n\nbisnis 16. Sep, 2009 at 9:46 pm \nGreat post. Thank you for this info. I need that\n\n\n Myself 19. Sep, 2009 at 10:06 am \n\nPlease track down and watch a movie called \"Detroit: A City to Yourself\", by\nNicole MacDonald. It's full of this imagery, and talks about the 1805 fire\nand rebuilding, and the post-industrial devastation that's ravaged the city\nsince.\nMost poignantly, it talks about Hurricane Katrina, which focused attention on\nrebuilding another city with this level of devastation, and how without a\nsingle catastrophic event to blame for it, Detroit's decay has gone\nunsympathetically ignored.\nThe movie wraps up by observing this, how abandoned buildings and spaces are\nbeing reclaimed by nature. About the pop fiction which explores the concept\nof a post-human world, and how it already exists now. And about how, if\nyou're a pheasant, that's not such a bad thing.\nHOWEVER ... \nThere's a lot more to Detroit than that. There are industrial spaces being\nturned into low-rent artist lofts and business incubators. (Look at the\nRussell Industrial Complex, for one example.) There are neighborhoods that\nrefuse to cave. (west of Livernois around McNichols). There's a whole bunch\nof nice stuff happening along the riverfront, from downtown up towards Stroh\nPlace.\nAnd there's always Belle Isle. When friends come to Detroit, I take them\nthere. It's our in-the-river park, 982 acres of green space, with a zoo, a\nbotanical garden and conservatory, rentable paddle boats, and tons of other\nneat stuff. Next time you're in Detroit, please head over. Oh, and entry is\nfree, so it's available to anyone regardless of economic status. You're\nliable to see families picnicking, bums gathering bottles and cans, geese\nforaging, and deer cautiously wandering the edge of the woods. Within a\nhundred yards of each other.\nSome of that cheap real estate isn't too horrible, either. There's a whole\nstreet being taken over by artists, Farnsworth between Moran and McDougall.\nSome of the things they've done down there are amazing, and the community\ngarden is a great bridge to the surrounding neighborhood. A few weeks ago,\nsomeone broke into their shed to steal their garden tools. Think about that\nfor a moment, hoes and shovels don't have enough pawn value to be worth\ncarrying out. Whoever took that stuff is probably using it in their own\ngarden.\nYes, Detroit's got more than its share of bad spots, you're right. I've lived\nin the metro area my whole life, and there are areas (I can't call them\nneighborhoods) down there where I don't feel safe in daytime, much less at\nnight. But there are bright spots, and behind every one of them is a person,\nor a bunch of people, who refuse to give up.\n\n\n Jessica 19. Sep, 2009 at 10:30 am\n\nMyself -- Thanks for the comment and the great information. You are exactly\nthe kind of person who gives me back the hope I lost on my way into town.\nSeems there's a pretty solid group of Detroit residents who are truly\ncommitted to restoring the city, and that's beautiful to see.\nLove the fact that people are stealing garden implements (though it's still\nsad that they need to).\nI will absolutely watch A City To Yourself, thank you for the recommendation.\nAnd when I'm in the area again, I'll go out to Belle Isle and think\nlong&hard about the future of American cities--as I'm sure you do\noccasionally too.\n\n\n Reader Not Writer 20. Sep, 2009 at 10:17 pm\n\nWell, growing up not far from Detroit myself, I would point out a few\nthings:\n1. Driving a Honda in Detroit right now probably isn't really going to get\nyou welcomed with open arms. See, there's a wee bit of loyalty to the Big 3\nand driving a foreign car doesn't really scream \"solidarity\" to those\nstruggling to survive. Most of the funny looks you got were less about your\ncolor than about your ride. You think I'm kidding, but I couldn't be more\nserious -- that Honda is a visceral reminder for people of how the American\nconsumer has left Detroit in the dust.\n2. Detroit (proper) has been dying for a long time -- before the 1968 riots,\neven. Its going to take some pioneering individuals to start creating those\npockets of innovation, creativity, and vision. But its not going to happen\nwith the investment of $100 into a single house. Someone will need to begin\nby creating an urban \"oasis\" that mitigates some of the fears that you had\nwhile driving through the city -- where to buy groceries, a place where you\ncan feel safe on your own front porch, the freedom to sleep soundly without\nworrying about your copper wiring.\n3. For all that is wrong with Detroit -- and that's nearly everything --\nyou'd be astonished by the pride that Detroiters have for their city. They\nlack the means to build her back to her former glory, but she won't be\nabandoned. For all of those who are trapped there by their circumstances,\nthere are just as many who insist that they wouldn't live anywhere else.\n\n\n Raggedy Anarchy 21. Sep, 2009 at 7:21 pm \nThank you for the opportunity to see post-BushCo era Detroit through the\nprism of your vision.\nI've never been there, but ever since that mad, possessed American History\nProfessor I had, I've been haunted by Detroit. No, even before that -- \nThe Dollmaker has often been called 'America's least pretentious\nmasterpiece'. (Joyce Carol Oates in the NYTBR)\nWhen folks like Gertie Nevels, and Levon Helm and John Hiatt and my favorite,\nJohn Henry, left the mountains to go wrestle with the Industrial leviathan\nin Detroit, they were in it to the death. Detroit won't be the death of the\ncourage of those early Detroit pioneers; it looks like Nature will prevail\nafter all. Everybody wins.\nI love what you are doing.\n\n\n Uncle B 18. Oct, 2009 at 7:53 am \nIs this the monument left behind for the world to witness, by Corporatism,\nCapitalism? Is this the greatness they built on earth? Is this the proof\nthat all countries deserve democracy and its inevitable cancers, corporatism\nand capitalism? We die in war to bring this to other countries? This,\nAmerican Glory? In a class-less society? This is the final phase, the\ncrowning glory of America's greatness? Does this show our system's\nsuperiority over the commies in China? The old Soviet Guard? Europe's\nfollies? Have we really built a \"Great Society\" or is that all propaganda --\nBull Shiite to hush free thought, eyes to the flag, while our pockets and\nresources were raided by shysters, spin-meisters, schmucks and banksters?\nDid we build sane, sustainable, survival shelter homes? Do we still have\nfertile backyard gardens, filled with the composting of the age? Can any of\nwhat we built be recovered, restored, renovated, into useful shelter? Did\nthe tools of production really get sold, to the shareholders benefit,\nleaving the worker without means to defend himself? Have the great fortunes\nearned in trust as \"American\" for American investment here in America,\nreally migrated to the Beijing, Shanghai, and Hang-Seng markets, converted\nto safer \"Yuan\" and invested in China's wealth? Did this really happen to\nAmerican patriots? Do you still love democracy, corporatism, capitalism and\nall it has done for you? Are you really \"Free\"? Is Conscription just around\nthe corner, to serve Halliburton(Dubai) in attaining pipeline clearance\nthrough Afghanistan, to Turkmenistan and the oil field there? Are American\nlives well spent in thei \"Middle East\" endevor? Are we just mercenaries for\nbig oil, not liberators spreading \"Freedom\"? Is this really just flag-waving\npropaganda? What, exactly did we win in Iraq? Cheaper Oil? I think not!\nGratitude of a Free nation? I think not! Why has the \"Rust Belt\" come into\nbeing? What were we doing? Where did the great society for all, the one we\nwere told we were building go? Japan? China? To the Uber-Rich? As we sink\ninto our own ruins, the dark horse rides on America! The dark horse rides\non! Sad.\n\n\n Lumpy 22. Oct, 2009 at 3:14 pm\n\nGreen movement? You gotta be kidding me! Earth to Jessica: Democrats caused\nthis. They have the unmidas touch. Every decaying city in America has D's\nfirmly in control, and has forever.\nWhen you said you were naive, you weren't kidding.\n\n\n Jessica Reeder 22. Oct, 2009 at 3:36 pm \nNope, I wasn't kidding. Put it in writing, didn't I?\nLumpy, I'm not a Democrat and I don't much approve of the Democratic Party.\nJust so we're clear on that. I don't think you present a fully-informed\nargument on the causes of urban decay, but I don't disagree with you.\nI'm not particularly interested in whose fault this mess is; rather, I choose\nto focus on how we're going to clean it up. That's where the green movement\ncomes in, and when I say \"green\" I'm talking plants not politics.\nIf you've got some fancy new technology at Boeing that can do more for\npeople's health and happiness (and for less cost) than a victory garden can\ndo, please let me know.\n\n\n Raggedy Anarchy 24. Oct, 2009 at 6:17 pm\n\nLast I checked, greed, sloth, hubris and waste were all pretty universally\nhuman traits, and I see no halos around either Libertarians, Dems or even\nanarchically green-at-heart.\nI agree -- Democrats, like country music, have disappointed me too many times\nin the past for me to keep on listening. But here's the thing -- frogs are\nmutating due to the planet trying to kill itself. Salmon have forgot how to\nscrew. Otters in post-Valdez Alaska are clawing their own\npetro-chemical-burned eyes out in pain.\nThe patient is earth, and it's not getting better. You want to yell at which\ninsurance company fucked up, or change a bedpan, so to speak? During times\nof crisis (which this is), the ones who will create positive change are\nthose who accept the hand they are dealt and act. The ones who are educated\nand informed and attached to delegating moral judgements will be perfectly\nequipped to deal with a world that no longer exists. Just ask the\nPalestinians who left after the first war to cry over the past. Or ask my\nPaiute grandfather. *Or even Friend Salmon, who still haunts my dreams and\ntells me not to let us blow each other's asses off the earth until we clean\nup the mess we have made.\n*That was for Lumpy. Nobody gets laughed at alone in my presence.\n\n\n Raggedy Anarchy 24. Oct, 2009 at 6:21 pm \n\" ... when I say \u201cgreen\u201d I\u2019m talking plants not politics.\"\nWall-E.\n\n\n Eric 01. Nov, 2009 at 10:33 pm \nThere is now a house for $10 listed on realtor.com\n\n\n Helena 19. Nov, 2009 at 1:06 pm \nYou told me about this, but it has to be seen to be believed (not that I\ndidn't believe you!). The richest country in the world ... ?!\n\n\n Fred E. 18. Jan, 2010 at 8:09 pm \nDon't forget about the back taxes!\n\n\n Parker 15. May, 2010 at 6:56 am \nI find this topic fascinating. I was born in a suburb of Detroit and most of\nfamily still lives there. I will be going back to visit in June. I plan to\ntake a (Daytime) tour of these decaying areas especially the old factories.\nI have the urban explorer fascination. However, the main reason I wanted to\npost was to say to \"Lumpy\", \"the democrats have the unmidas touch\", LMAO,\nthat is classic. and I must agree with Lumpy. Freaking hillarious and so\ntrue. Thanks Lump-man. BTW, great blog and great info. Peace.\n\n\n Brad 14. Oct, 2010 at 7:02 pm \nI, too checked out a few listings for under $1,000 and was absolutely shocked\nat the property taxes. A $1,000 house, which could be fixed up into maybe a\n$30-40,000 house comes with a tax bill of $4-6K per year! The taxes on my\n$140K house in an urban area of Mississippi are only $1500/year.\nAdditionally, even if you paid cash for the house, you'd probably want to\ncarry some homeowner's insurance with all the inherent risks to the property\n(arson, vandalism), and I'm sure it's sky-high, given those risks.\n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "detroit", "class": "blog"}
{"subclass": null, "text_id": "written/blog/Effing-Idiot", "text": "\n\n\n\nBob Cesca's Awesome Blog! Go!\n\n\n\n// Copyright (c) 1996-1997 Athenia Associates. // http://www.webreference.com/js/ // License\nis granted if and only if this entire // copyright notice is included. By Tomer Shiran.\n\n\nOctober 19, 2010\n\nEffing Idiot\n\n\nGo to 2:50 and listen as the audience laughs and laughs at O'Donnell's stupidity.\n\nDamn. Well, at least she's losing. Badly. Thanks again, Sarah Palin! You successfully turned a\nRepublican seat to a, you know, \"Marxist\" seat. Good job. You're a genius.\n\n\n Filed under: Christine O'Donnell, Election 2010, Sarah Palin, Teabaggers, Wingnuts\n\nPosted By Bob Cesca | October 19, 2010 2:43 PM\n\n\n\n\n\nComments\n\n\nI heard this same accusation on Kos today, that the audience is laughing AT Christine\nO'Donnell on the first thing she says, but I disagree entirely: On THAT point, HER supporters\nare laughing at COONS, it's absolutely a \"She's got YOU, DUMBASS!!\" laugh, the sort of\n\"Oh-No-She-D'I'INT!\" laugh you'd hear from a studio audience when the slightly stupid but\naffable and hitherto ineffective Dunce Character finally gets a zinger in on the Handsome\nLead.\n\nRemember that at least half the audience in a venue like this would be there to support\nO'Donnell, and the \"Point to 'Separation of Church and State' in the Constitution\" dig\nis a virulently popular meme in the loonosphere from whence comes the Teabagger Political\nPlaybook. Those are hoots and calls of SUPPORT for O'Donnell supposedly putting one over on\nCoons, they aren't laughing at her. \n\nThere may very well have been a gasp, and some uncomfortable \"Okay, that's enough now\"\nchuckles at the end, but the guffaws at the top of the clip are WITH her, not AT her.\nPosted by: ELDING at October 19, 2010 2:52 PM\n\n\n\nHilarious.\nPosted by: adx at October 19, 2010 3:00 PM\n\n\nI don't think the audience is laughing at Coons; the laughter has an incredulous, oh-my-god\nsound to it. But it's obvious that O'Donnell thinks they're laughing at him, not her. When she\nhears the reaction, she looks out at the audience with a big, proud grin. She thinks she just\nscored mucho points on Baldy.\n\nElding is right; \"separation of church and state isn't in the Constitution\" is a major\nwingnut talking point. They routinely claim that the establishment of religion clause doesn't\nmean what everyone else thinks it means. So although this shows what an extremist nut\nO'Donnell is, it's not really a gaffe; it's standard stuff right out of their playbook.\nPosted by: Steve8489 at October 19, 2010 3:04 PM\n\n\nWell, if one is looking for the phrase, \"Separation of Church and State,\" yeah,\nthat's not in there, so TADA! Yay! Looks at me, I wins a big arguments and I poops my pants.\nBut the principle is in there. I love when ignorant fucks like O'Donnell and her little\norcling hordes make huge category mistakes like this. It's is akin to taking a tour of a\ncollege and starting it off at the administration offices and when that part of the tour is\nfinished, someone like O'Donnell says, \"Ok, that's great, but when are we gonna start seeing\nthe college?\"\n\nPosted by: at October 19, 2010 3:10 PM\n\n\n\nYes, it's standard stuff, and HER CROWD would have springboarded OFF of it, that's what I'm\nsaying: As far as she's concerned, it's not a gaffe, and as far as HER SUPPORTERS in the room\nare concerned, it was not only NOT a gaffe, it was a Direct Hit. They should have applauded,\nthat would have settled this matter for good. I'm convinced that's not laughing at her, that's\n\"Ooo, good one!\" FOR her. \nPosted by: ELDING at October 19, 2010 3:11 PM\n\n\nWell ELDING, its already being reported that it was HER that was clueless so Coons gets the\nlast laugh on that. \nPosted by: Allonfla at October 19, 2010 3:30 PM\n\n\nI don't believe this was a public event, Elvis, I think it was a debate before the students\nat the law school. I mean, it could be some of her supporters infiltrated, but I truly believe\nthere would've been lots of catcalling, etc. if that were the case.\nPosted by: pea at October 19, 2010 3:30 PM\n\n\nYeah, Pea, you have a point there, but still: The laughter doesn't sound incredulous to me,\nit sounds appreciative and snarky. Put yourself in a non-partisan Law School Student position:\nWould you laugh at loud at a Teabagger Meme like the one she dropped, or would you\nmutter/grumble to yourself, whispering to your colleague, \"What a fucking idiot!\" I don't see\na crowd like that laughing out loud at such a pitiful little meme, it's not even worth a\nlaugh-out-loud guffaw. \nPosted by: ELDING at October 19, 2010 3:53 PM\n\n\nwell, keep in mind that all of them probably know what a freak she is. I think it might be\nmore of a \"holy crap, I can't believe she just topped all the other stupid shit she's said,\nand I got to bear witness to it!\" laughter. I know if I had the opportunity to attend a Sarah\nPalin rally, I'd be overjoyed to hear some incredible stupid falling out of her mouth.\nPosted by: pea at October 19, 2010 4:07 PM\n\n\nwhich would be, uh, ANY Sarah Palin rally. Also.\nPosted by: pea at October 19, 2010 4:08 PM\n\n\n\nELDING......\n\nthe debate was at a LAW SCHOOL. You really think lawyers are going to laugh at Coons rather\nthan O'Donnell???\n\nNot a snowballs chance in hell.\nPosted by: Nicole473 at October 19, 2010 5:00 PM\n\n\nExcerpts from http://tinyurl.com/26ddbvd\n\n\"'You actually audibly heard the crowd gasp,' Widener University political scientist Wesley\nLeckrone said after the debate, adding that it raised questions about O'Donnell's grasp of the\nConstitution.\n\nErin Daly, a Widener professor who specializes in constitutional law, said that while there\nare questions about what counts as government promotion of religion, there is little debate\nover whether the First Amendment prohibits the federal government from making laws\nestablishing religion.\n\n\"She seemed genuinely surprised that the principle of separation of church and state derives\nfrom the First Amendment, and I think to many of us in the law school that was a surprise,\"\nDaly said. \"It's one thing to not know the 17th Amendment or some of the others, but most\nAmericans do know the basics of the First Amendment.\"\n\nO'Donnell didn't respond to reporters who asked her to clarify her views after the\ndebate.\"\nPosted by: Big_Ben at October 19, 2010 5:48 PM\n\n\n\nAnyone who says \"Evolution is only a THEORY...it's not a fact\" is so stupid; so utterly\nfucking brainless, uneducated, ignorant, clueless and unread they should immediately be\nsterilized on the slim chance that there's a genetic component to their imbecility.\nAnyone who stubbornly knows so little about science cannot possibly be expected to develop the\nanalytical skills necessary to interpret Con Law.\nPosted by: cousinavi at October 19, 2010 5:50 PM\n\n\nIf the laughter was with her, then the joke is on everyone there in support, of course,\nbecause moments later, after she's basically pounding the desk talking about the constitution\nand her unyielding devotion to that which does not separate church and state(ha-ha), she can't\nrecall the 14th and 16th amendments and needs to be refreshed by the questioner.\n\nThat's the real \"busted!\" moment here, if you ask me.\n\nFor people who speak so militantly about adhering to the constitution, I expect a military\nlike response to such a simple question.\n\nWingnuts will turn blue arguing about a Christian nation and constitution, but not knowing\ntwo amendments, as a person running to uphold and defend the constitution containing those\namendments, this clip exposes her and the Tea Party faithful as constitutional frauds.\n\nNot knowing what the constitution says when asked is bold font black over white. There's no\ngrey area, here.\n\nAs a defender, you can say, \"well, she believes church and state are indivisible, so do I.\"\nBut you can't say she knows the constitution when she clearly does not. \n\nAs someone trying to get a government job with great benefits where the qualification is\nbasically, \"take this constitution and defend it with your life,\" Tea Party Republicans spend\nan awful lot of time tearing it up and reassembling the pieces to their acquired tastes. \n\nHer argument dismissing the separation of church and state is dessert before dinner.\n\nSlightly off-topic, I've been spending a lot of time on potential swing vote forums adding\nfact to fiction. It's hilarious when republicans who voted for Bush twice and approved the\nmajority of the way through(approval among republicans was pretty consistent)are telling me\nabout all the mistakes Obama makes and imparting their Bush-loving \"wisdom\" to those less\nin-the-know.\n\nIf you think Bush was good enough to vote for twice, and you're one of the 60 million\nMcCain/Palin people, your qualifications and insight, like Christine O'Donnell's, are comical\nat best.\n\nMake no mistake, I'm laughing AT you, Tea Party Republican people.\nPosted by: MrBrink at October 19, 2010 5:50 PM\n\n\nIf the laughter was with her, then the joke is on everyone there in support, of course,\nbecause moments later, after she's basically pounding the desk talking about the constitution\nand her unyielding devotion to that which does not separate church and state(ha-ha), she can't\nrecall the 14th and 16th amendments and needs to be refreshed by the questioner.\n\nThat's the real \"busted!\" moment here, if you ask me.\n\nFor people who speak so militantly about adhering to the constitution, I expect a military\nlike response to such a simple question.\n\nWingnuts will turn blue arguing about a Christian nation and constitution, but not knowing\ntwo amendments, as a person running to uphold and defend the constitution containing those\namendments, this clip exposes her and the Tea Party faithful as constitutional frauds.\n\nNot knowing what the constitution says when asked is bold font black over white. There's no\ngrey area, here.\n\nAs a defender, you can say, \"well, she believes church and state are indivisible, so do I.\"\nBut you can't say she knows the constitution when she clearly does not. \n\nAs someone trying to get a government job with great benefits where the qualification is\nbasically, \"take this constitution and defend it with your life,\" Tea Party Republicans spend\nan awful lot of time tearing it up and reassembling the pieces to their acquired tastes. \n\nHer argument dismissing the separation of church and state is dessert before dinner.\n\nSlightly off-topic, I've been spending a lot of time on potential swing vote forums adding\nfact to fiction. It's hilarious when republicans who voted for Bush twice and approved the\nmajority of the way through(approval among republicans was pretty consistent)are telling me\nabout all the mistakes Obama makes and imparting their Bush-loving \"wisdom\" to those less\nin-the-know.\n\nIf you think Bush was good enough to vote for twice, and you're one of the 60 million\nMcCain/Palin people, your qualifications and insight, like Christine O'Donnell's, are comical\nat best.\n\nMake no mistake, I'm laughing AT you, Tea Party Republican people.\nPosted by: MrBrink at October 19, 2010 5:50 PM\n\n\nOh, double-post. Why do you taunt my caffeinated clicky finger?\nPosted by: MrBrink at October 19, 2010 5:53 PM\n\n\nOh, double-post. Why do you taunt my caffeinated clicky finger?\nPosted by: MrBrink at October 19, 2010 5:53 PM\n\n\nI have to agree with Pea and Nicole...you can clearly hear a man's voice say \"Oh my god\"\nafter O'Donnell says that and his tone is \"I can't believe she said something so incredibly\nstupid\". Yeah, they were laughing at her, as is appropriate.\n\nPosted by: Irish Girl at October 19, 2010 5:53 PM\n\n\nIt's beyond frustrating to me, as someone who has studied Constitutional Law, who competed on\nthe the national level on it in law school, and who published an article on it, to hear people\nwho clearly haven't done the first of these talk about it as if they know better than I do what\nthe Constitution says, means, and is all about. \n\nI had a TPer over at HuffPo tell me I didn't know what I was talking about vis-\u00e0-vis the need\nfor Constitutional interpretation and Constitutional Law (he believed that any and all\nConstitutional questions must and can only be resolved by Amendment , not\nby judicial review), before proudly proclaiming that he had never gone to law school and\n\"despise[d] the legal profession.\" \n\nWhere do you go from there?\nPosted by: GrafZeppelin127 at October 19, 2010 6:41 PM\n\n\nI thinks this illustrates their biblical view of the Constitution, and by that I mean they\nregard it the same way as they regard the Holy Bible. It's a document that is not to be\nquestioned, but merely followed to the letter because it was handed down to us by greater\nbeings. Oh, and like the Holy Bible, that we mere mortals are not supposed to question or\ninterpret, they'll let us know what it really means and that will often conflict with\nwhat it actually says.\n\nThey try to exert some sort of control over it's meaning by elevating it to a level that\nmakes it untouchable. To them it's not a living document that was designed to change with the\nnation, but essentially carved in stone like the Ten Commandments. Immutable and unchanging.\nExcept for, you know, maybe an amendment barring gay marriage. But in order to regain some\ncontrol over their lives that they firmly believe they've lost, they're now trying to\ndetermine, with unwavering certainty, that we've all been doing this wrong the whole time and\nif we just get back to what the founders wanted, everything will be ok.\n\nGive 'em a few minutes, though. They're waiting on an email reply from the Washington\nre-enacter at Arlington to hand down some decisions.\nPosted by: Nanotyrannus at October 19, 2010 7:19 PM\n\n\n@GrafZeppellin127\n\nIn answer to your question -- where do you go from there? I've recently come to the\nconclusion that the answer is \"nowhere\". I used to be against making blanket statements about\nthe hard core tea partiers, like the person you described...\"they're not all crazy\" \"they're\nnot all hateful\" but lately, i'm over it. \n\n they don't believe in: evolution, climate change, the dept of education, public education,\ntaxes in order to pay for roads/police and firemen. they believe the President is not an\nAmerican. they see no problem with racism, sexism and fascism. they don't understand that\n\"freedom of speech\" doesn't mean freedom from consequences. they confuse losing an election\nwith tyranny. they horde food because glenn beck told them so -- they conflate their \"movement\"\nwith the civil rights movement --they \"detain\" reporters, on public property, for the crime of\nasking questions...\n\nyou don't reason with people who believe these things, any more than you'd try to reason with\ncharles manson. they're crazy -- plain and simple and it's really, really sad.\nPosted by: mslarry1973 at October 19, 2010 7:23 PM\n\n\n@ ELDING - Have to disagree, buddy. The debate was at Widener Law School. They laughed at her\nthe second time as well when she incredulously asked, as if not believing Coons, \"That's in the\nFirst Amendment?\"\n\nI don't think they were laughing at him. If they were, they'd be reacting after his comment\n(and probably booing and calling him a liar) rather than reacting after her comment.\nPosted by: Broadway Carl at October 19, 2010 7:23 PM\n\n\n@Irish Girl.....so good to see you!! I hope you're well. :)\nPosted by: Nicole473 at October 19, 2010 7:59 PM\n\n\nGrafZeppelin:\n\nI had a TPer over at HuffPo tell me I didn't know what I was talking about vis-\u00e0-vis\nthe need for Constitutional interpretation and Constitutional Law (he believed that any and all\nConstitutional questions must and can only be resolved by Amendment, not by judicial review),\nbefore proudly proclaiming that he had never gone to law school and \"despise[d] the legal\nprofession.\" \n\nThere is nowhere to go with these ignoramuses. They would not believe you if you parted the\nsea for them first. I learned my lesson at HP. While it can be personally satisfying to present\nall your little ducks in a row, they will never stop erroneously knocking the damn ducks out of\nline. \nPosted by: Nicole473 at October 19, 2010 8:02 PM\n\n\nYou know she had better watch out! The separation between church and state is what saves us\nfrom SHARIA LAW! I think those trying to diminish the separation are probably secret Muslim\nsympathizers that are sneaking SHARIA LAW in on us!\nPosted by: Ron Spridgen at October 19, 2010 8:17 PM\n\n\nNah, I'm convinced that the audible gasps and stifled chuckles were from her attempt to bluff\nher way through an exchange regarding the Constitution in a room full of lawyers. \n\nPerformance art, people.\n\nShe's not running to win, and if you think she is, you're not paying attention.\nPosted by: Lexaburn at October 19, 2010 10:58 PM\n\nThink of those Bill Maher clips. The constant television appearances for the last decade or\nso. Think of who endorsed her, and how O'Donnell could teach her a thing or two\nabout...moderate ad-libbing.\n\nThe strategy is this: be as foolish as possible, so no one anticipates you actually knowing\nanything. Embrace the derision and/or ridicule. Go on the circuit as a passionate advocate for\nwhatever cause you choose to co-opt. In O'Donnell's case it's the same pseudo-Christianity\nholy rollers dignify to play within the political arena. In Palin's case, it's the\ncrypto-fascism that oozes within the GOP. The Teapublicans fool no one with their talk of\nindependence and the theatrical in-fighting. They always tame those they let in their ranks or\nthey destroy them. Palin knows her place, as do they all.\n\nDo you really think a serious candidate would go around asking for hints during a debate?\nSeriously! O'Donnell is not that stupid. I know some of you want to think she is for the sake\nof mirth and merriment, but she ain't. Sorry. Just like Palin isn't stupid enough to confuse\nPA with WV. Poke fun all you want, but at least be realistic with yourselves: you have just as\nmuch fun as they're having. \n\nTrust me, y'all, they are faking it!\n\nO'Donnell's running on personality alone, nothing more, nothing less. Regarding politics,\nshe's a glorified booster, same as with Mangle in Nevada. Lowden the chicken-lady and Mangle\nwere merely supposed to challenge and beat Reid, then get out of the way. O'Donnell is to be a\nface for the underdog teabaggers. This is why they're not making a full investment in her. Her\nplace is not in the senate, but on television.\nPosted by: Lexaburn at October 19, 2010 11:17 PM\n\n\nElvis, having watching the video several times, I have to disagree. The audience was clearly\nlaughing at her and her ignorance. However, she clearly thinks she that she has scored a huge\nwin and that the audience was on her side.\n\nJust more of her complete separation from reality.\nPosted by: DC at October 19, 2010 11:23 PM\n\n\nOh, and ELDING, their reaction stems from the fact that she broached the subject again after\nthe moderator moved on. Her question was the equivalent of asking \"Where're the pictures?\"\nwhen staring at the document, especially in that setting.\n\nShe did it on purpose, not to further the discussion, but to establish that, yes, she is a\ndependable dumbass.\n\nI'm telling you all, she's running a game.\nPosted by: Lexaburn at October 19, 2010 11:24 PM\n\n\nLexaburn, I have to disagree with your assessment that this is all a game and that she's not\nthat dumb. I don't believe she's as dumb as she is ignorant. It if really is a game for\nO'Donnell, then what's the end game? She may have flown under the radar for her previous\ncampaigns, but now she's made herself a fool in the national spotlight and effectively ruined\nany chance of continuing her charade, if her intention was to be a lifelong nominee in the\nfirst place.\n\nBeing a perpetual campaigner can only get you so far, and if they don't intend to win after\ngetting the nomination, then that con game is limited.\n\nMaybe Palin fits more into the realm of your assessment, but if she runs and loses in 2012,\nher shelf life is limited too.\n\nPosted by: Broadway Carl at October 20, 2010 12:29 AM\n@Nicole, hi! It's good to be back. I've been awol due to having a baby....little Liam was\nborn on 9/21 (a couple of weeks early but he's doing well). Thank goodness for FMLA and\nmaternity leave. \nPosted by: Irish Girl at October 20, 2010 1:08 AM\n\nBC, you misunderstand me. I'm not saying she knows a damned thing about the Constitution. In\nfact, I'd go a far as to say she doesn't give one damn about it. What I'm saying is that going\ninto these discussions, she's fully aware of her deficiencies. To tell the truth, I can't tell\nyou her actual \"endgame,\" per se, but if I had a guess it would be an extended stint on a\ncable news channel.\n\nThe \"shelf life\" of both women is only limited to the fraction with which they uphold a\nstandard. Palin took standards out of the equation when she quit her job. Were she to actually\nrun, it would be for vanity's sake. She's reaching for what O'Donnell has already achieved.\nThey've both lowered themselves to being cheerleaders for so-called \"conservative\" causes.\nWell, Palin did anyway.\n\nI attribute part of my assessment of O'Donnell to info I've gleaned from a good friend of\nmine that knew her on the media circuit at the start of the decade. My friend describes her as\na \"bad actress\" primarily, that co-opts \"conservativism,\" but doesn't necessarily cling to it\nas some may believe. This friend tells me that Christine doesn't believe half provocative\nand/or boneheaded things she's saying. O'Donnell is described as a normal conservative\nRepublican woman by my friend. I am convinced personally that O'Donnell's just a starved media\npersonality that found a new gimmick in running for public office. That is the lifestyle\nchoice she has made, and she's sticking with it. Some of the innuendo surrounding her leads me\nto this conclusion, as well. However, I can't be too conclusive...\n\nYou know what, I'm being too much of a stuffy doctor.\n\nAnyway, that smile she gives after asking about the 1st Amendment may very well be her being\nin on the joke she's making of herself. It's not the fact that she tried and failed to dictate\ncontent within a Constitutional Amendment; it's the fact that she knew she did not know and\nsaid what she said regardless. Do not try to make sense out of anything of this if you're not\nthinking like a...celebrity of whatever quality, let's say.\n\nHere's what you do: gather all the O'Donnell appearances that you can from online sources.\nGo through all, and see if her point of view EVER evolves beyond the con-servative blather or\nthe crank conspiracy theories. Next, ask yourself why she continues to be invited to these\npublic forums. What exactly is she adding to these conversations? In all my cable news\nwatching, I've seen far more dim characters than O'Donnell with regular gigs, so it's not the\nfact that she's dumb that gets her on television. My friend tells me of certain connections\nindividuals like O'Donnell have that gets them the leeway they need to raise their public\nprofile. Since they really have no one to answer to, they can go on television and say\nanything, get away with it, and do it again in yet another televised venue. It's a perpetual\ncycle. She's not campaigning to win anything, I'm telling you, BC. \n\nYou see how Rove immediately rejected her. I don't believe that was because she beat the\n\"establishment\" candidate. In fact, my theory is that Rove wasn't so much as rejecting her, as\nlimiting her role within the media environment. I'm thinking she's aiming to be on FNC on a\nregular basis. This all comes from my observing her debate performances, as well as her more\nrecent TV appearances. She's not so much running for office, as she is auditioning to be a\nregular voice for the Cons. A reaffirmation of sorts. She's been at this for a while, and they\nhave younger, more loopier and dim-witted Con tarts traipsing about. Palin's taking time away\nfrom them, but she has her own plans, which have yet to be revealed (though they may be all\ntoo obvious).\nPosted by: Lexaburn at October 20, 2010 3:42 AM\nChristine O'Donnell is certainly ignorant in the sense that, while perfectly aware that\nthere are many things she doesn't know, she is clueless as to how that might be an\nimpediment. It's an odd combination - knowing you don't really have a solid grasp on a\nsubject, but still being convinced that one's core principals are enough to overcome any\nobstacle.\n\nO'Donnell believes in the bible. She's a Jesus freak. And that's enough for her.\n\nO'Donnell is opposed to anything liberal, anything progressive, anything Obama, anything\nDemocrat, anything that can in any way be determined NOT to accord with the demands of her\nsavior and lord jesus christ (as SHE interprets his word) in any way. And that's enough\nfor her. The only reason she's a Republican / Tea Party gangster is because her brand of\ntheocracy and batshit stupidity would simply never fly anywhere else. In the stumped,\nfrustrated, hypocritcal idiocy of the extreme right - in that gang of redneck ignoramuses who\nwant simple answers to complex questions they do not understand - she finds the only market\nfor her brand of incompetent yammering.\n\nFacts don't matter. Evidence doesn't matter. History doesn't matter. Just look at the clips\nBill Maher runs of her blithering, insistent certainty. She pisses off EVERYONE, all the time,\nand never once = not a single time ever - stops long enough to even CONSIDER that maybe she's\nthe one who doesn't get it. It's THEY who don't get it. The constitutional lawyers don't\nknow fuck all about the constitution. She does because she took a week long course at Oxford\nUniversity! That she lies about her academic credentials, inflates beyond all reason and truth\nthe actual degree of study she has accomplished, does not in any way diminish her insistence\nthat she IS highly educated - really VERY knowledgeable about all of these things she doesn't\nknow about.\n\nRichard Dawkins doesn't know anything about the \"Theory\" of evolution...he's just a cranky\natheist! She read a pamphlet from the Discovery Institute that totally explains the difference\nbetween Creationism and Intelligent Design...which are not the same things, not at all, and\nanyone who says they are is just wrong. Especially that court in Dover that found, as a matter\nof FACT, that the ID crowd simply used \"Find & Replace\" to substitute \"Intelligent Design\"\nfor \"Creation\" (resulting in numerous instances of \"Intelligent Designism\"). But fuck it.\nEveryone is wrong, Christine O'Donnell is right. And if you disagree with her, then you are\nproperly an object of scorn and derision for being so poorly informed about things.\n\nIt may not be campaigning to WIN. She may well know that she's unelectable. But in her mind\nthat's because the voters have been brainwashed by the same evil, wrong-headed liberal /\nprogressive indoctrination that has corrupted our schools, our leaders and our society.\n\nChristine O'Donnell doesn't have a hidden agenda. She sees herself as morally correct,\nprofoundly right (in both senses of the term), and struggling as only a jebus loving martyr\ncan against the tide of evil sweeping her nation. \n\nAs for why she consistently gets to appear on television: She's fuckable, in that weird\nSarah Palin way that makes me recoil in horror and wonder what the fuck is wrong with anyone\nwho would touch those women with their worst enemy's cock. She'll say apeshit nuts\nthings about masturbation, and flirting with witchcraft, and insist that these things that SHE\nknows - things no one else knows (like the top secret information about China's plans to take\nover the USA to which only SHE is privy!) places her in the unique position to lecture Obama\non Con Law, Henry Kissinger on foreign policy history, Richard Dawkins on evolution, Lawrence\nKrause on cosmology and Murray Gell-Mann on particle physics. She KNOWS things, see? Jebus\ntells her things.\n\nFrankly I think it's the result of the move in the 70's and 80's to tell students that they\nwere ALL special; that no one was any better or any smarter than anyone else; that everyone\nhas a RIGHT to their own opinion; to make sure that everyone who played the game got a\ntrophy. Now those self-inflated, self-important, self-esteem fiddled crowd are running\nfor office, and they are fucking well convinced that they DO know as much as anyone else, and\ntheir OPINIONS about things are just as valid as anyone else's...even moreso because \"it's MY\nopinion...and who are YOU to tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about? YOU don't know\nwhat you're talking about!\"\n\nKnowing she's going to lose is not the same thing as running TO lose... in the same way that\nknowing she really doesn't know much about the constitution will never prevent her from\ntelling you what it must mean. She thinks she's right today, and she will think she's\nright after being stomped to death at the polls. She will continue to blither her vacuous\nbullshit on any platform she can find, spend campaign money on her rent, and go to bed every\nnight feeling as though she is fighting the good fight for jebus, truth and America.\nPosted by: cousinavi at October 20, 2010 4:43 AM\n\nLex - Thanks for the clarification. It looks like you might have an inside track into this\nperson's make up. But I'm still going to think that her smile wasn't so much that she's in on\nthe joke as it was she really does think she knows what she's talking about. It is a\ndebate after all, a competition. To just shrug your shoulders and throw a hail mary pass with\na smile on your face would be suicidal. But really, who the hell knows?\nPosted by: Broadway Carl at October 20, 2010 9:56 AM\n\nAvi- I agree with you completely, except that I believe the \"everyone is special\" crowd\nstarted in the 90's. I grew up in the 70's and there were no \"gifted\" programs for kids who\ndidn't happen to drool on themselves back then. The \"entitlement because I deserve it\"\ngeneration is currently in their early to mid 20's. My wife deals with them all the time at\nher place of employment.\nPosted by: at October 20, 2010 10:06 AM\n\n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "Effing-Idiot", "class": "blog"}
{"subclass": null, "text_id": "written/blog/Fermentation_Eminent-Domain", "text": "\n\n\n\n\nFermentation:\nThe Daily Wine Blog\n\n\n\nEminent Domain Used To Usurp Wine Label Real Estate\n\n\n I was disappointed, though not surprised, to see that today a conjunctive\nlabeling law dictating that \"Sonoma County\" be placed on every label on wines\nproduced from grapes grown in Sonoma County was unanimously passed by the California Legislature . Pushed as an\neffort to promote \"Sonoma County\" wines and a consumer education effort, the new\nlaw instead forces vintners to needlessly sully their package and undermines\ntheir own marketing efforts. Yet, the law does nothing to educate consumers.\nPassed unanimously out of the California Assembly and Senate, AB 1798 now awaits\nthe Governor's signature, which it will surely obtain. According to Noreen\nEvans, an Assembly sponsor of the bill, this new conjunctive labeling law\n\"requires that any wine labeled with an American Viticultural Area (AVA) located\nentirely within Sonoma County - \u2013 like Russian River Valley or Dry Creek Valley\n- must also include the word \"Sonoma County\" on the label, starting in 2014.\nThere are 13 AVAs in Sonoma County.\"\nThe problem, of course, is that by placing the words \"Sonoma\nCounty\" on a bottle of wine that is made with grapes grown in \"Russian River\nValley\", \"Dry Creek Valley\", \"Sonoma Valley\" or any other AVA in\nSonoma County,\nconsumers learn absolutely nothing about the wine in the bottle. There no\nevidence that grapes grown in \"Sonoma County\" have any single distinguishing feature derived from the\nfact that they were grown inside the borders of Sonoma County. \nAssemblywoman Evans concludes, \"By improving consumer education on each bottle,\nconjunctive labeling will unleash the full potential of our delicious wines to\nrepresent Sonoma around the world.\"\nShe's correct. Beginning in 2014, \"Sonoma County\" will receive a tremendous boost\nin recognition due to the conjunctive labeling law that forces vintners to add\nmore wording to their labels\u2014whether they think the words \"Sonoma County\" help\nor hurt their marketing efforts.\nFrankly, if I was making high end wine from the \"Sonoma Valley\", \"Sonoma\nMountain\" or \"Sonoma Coast\" AVAs that depended in part on the quality\nrecognition that comes wtih these AVAs, I'd be pissed that I'm forced now to put\na place-name on my label that told my buyers nothing of real value about the\nwine behind my label and, in some cases, demonstrably lowered its perceived\nquality.\nHonore Comfort, Executive Director of the Sonoma County Vintners Association and\nan outstanding representative for Sonoma County wines noted this: \". \"This\nmoment ...marks the beginning of a stronger Sonoma County brand for generations\nto come.\"\nProponents of the new Sonoma County Conjunctive labeling law like to point to a\nsimilar law that demands \"Napa Valley\" be placed on all wines that are made from\ngrapes grown in that appellation, rather than simply using a sub appellation.\nThey point to the prestige that the \"Napa Valley\" designation carries. But this\nprestige has nothing to due with the law that demands \"Napa Valley\", in addition\nto simply \"Rutherford\", be placed on these wines. It has to do entirely with the\npromotional effort that has gone into making \"Napa Valley\" a place associated\nwith great wines.\nSuch an association will not be made with \"Sonoma County\"\nwines...ever. The vintners in Sonoma County simply can't make a case for\n\"Sonoma County\" having any meaning or for a region as vast as \"Sonoma\nCounty\" delivering any degree of quality to the grapes.\nWhy is it important for someone making \"Sonoma Coast Pinot Noir\" or \"Sonoma\nValley Zinfandel\" to help promote \"Sonoma County\", a designation that has no\nability to define the quality or character of the wines in my Sonoma Coast Pinot\nNoir or my Sonoma Valley Zinfandel?\nThis is an example of a County usurping the private label real estate, and it's\nvery valuable real estate, for the sake of promoting something that is of little\nuse to private commercial interests. Ask yourself...If putting the words \"Sonoma\nCounty\" on one's wines was such a great thing, why don't more vintners who make\n\"Dry Creek Valley\", \"Russian River Valley\", \"Alexander Valley\" or \"Sonoma\nValley\" wines already put these words on their label? They legally could...if\nthey wanted to.\n\nThe new Sonoma County conjunctive labeling law is the equivalent\nof the State of California and the County of Sonoma claiming imminent domain\nover the labels of hundreds of vintners.\n\n\n\n\nComments\n\n Nick Perdiew said... I love it Tom. You found a way to tie this in nicely.\nThis is a case of over-reaching government regulation, costing business\nunnecessarily and burdening them with more regulations. It's just\nunnecessary.\n It also is a 'social promotion' in the sense that great Sonoma wines that\nnow are forced to use \"Sonoma County\" will be giving some of their\ncredibility to their lesser neighbors. Shades of wealth redistribution as\nwell. :-) Ew, ew, ew. \n August 30, 2010 at 11:44 AM \n\n\nJames McCann said... How many hundreds or thousands of labels will have to be\nre-submitted to the TTB between now and 2014? \n August 30, 2010 at 11:59 AM \n\n\nJohn Kelly said... \"...I'd be pissed that I'm forced now to put a place-name\non my label that told my buyers nothing of real value about the wine behind\nmy label and, in some cases, demonstrably lowered its perceived quality.\" \n Exactly, Tom. And I am really pissed. And so is every other producer I have\ndiscussed this issue with. I still don't know whose interests are being\nserved by this useless piece of crap legislation. I completely agree with\nyou when you state: \"Such an association will not be made with 'Sonoma\nCounty' wines...ever.\" Duh. \n I've got real skin in this game. We are going to have to totally redesign\nour front label to make room for \"Sonoma County\" - and so far every mock-up\nis cluttered and decreases the impact of our brand. \n Our best option looks like we will go to \"North Coast\" or \"California\" for\nour front label appellation, and discuss the grape source, vineyard name and\nmeaningful AVA on the back label. \n Who is going to compensate me for this? I estimate the value to be in six\nfigures, and we are a small winery. For a larger winery with a\nbetter-established brand the value is much higher. \n Eminent domain is exactly right - this is nothing less than governmental\n\"taking.\" The legislators who backed this should be ashamed. They should\nalso expect to lose my vote for them next election. \n August 30, 2010 at 12:04 PM \n\n\nHardy Wallace said... Thanks Tom-- This law is such BS. \n August 30, 2010 at 12:20 PM \n\n\nJohnLopresti said... I put in 1+ decades in trade coursework, and several\nbranches of the industry. I support the new labeling requirement. \n Sonoma county always was the sheep ranch joke in the era of Napa's\nwell-deserved, early, global fame. Sonoma county now is as good or better\nthan those early Napa vintages. Together we have led the world into modern\nviticulture, with the help of UC Davis, and in some pretty good company from\nother regions. \n I suppose the new law is all Sacramento hype. But I think it will improve\nnorthcoast revenue and dignity. I admit I have voted for the bill's\nauthoress. \n When I was a kid in a county called Solano (not too famous for wines or\nAVAs) people sometimes would happen by our place asking where rte 37 was,\nwhere was Black Pt.; people always were confused how the somewhat\nneighboring counties had such similar names. Now after several decades in\nSonoma county I have learned to appreciate its uniqueness, for its\nviticulture and other industries. \n The town of Sonoma is on a typical route people follow driving from Solano\nCounty to Sonoma County. The ambience in the town Sonoma is only an enclave;\nit is rightfully proud of its heritage as a village, and for its\nviticultural traditions. But Sonoma county encompasses much more territory,\nand other AVAs within the county are starkly different from the\ncharacteristics of Sonoma valley and the town of Sonoma. \n Aint many people still overseeing vineyard blends. Vive la nouveau Sonoma\nCounty. \n August 30, 2010 at 01:24 PM \n\n\nNick Perdiew said in \n to JohnLopresti... John, Good of you to comment and good to have dissent.\nWhat do you make of the fact that vintners *already* are free to put Sonoma\nCounty on any label they want? Govt. cannot mandate marketing effectiveness\nanymore than it can mandate perception of quality. If it were effective,\nwouldn't you already see it virtually everywhere? I admit, I don't see the\nreasoning of your argument here. The issue of the costs to vintners is\nnon-trivial too as you can see above. \n August 30, 2010 at 02:04 PM \n\n\nBill Cadman said... Tom-- I wonder what the response would be in Napa and\nSonoma if the vintners in Fresno convinced the state government to require\n\"California\" be put on all labels of wine made within California? \n August 31, 2010 at 10:40 AM \n\n\nJohnLopresti said... These past few years, 'eminent domain' has become a\nlibertarian property rights flashpoint, since the Kelo v New London, CT,\ncase concerning urban renewal polemics. I can see Tom W's concerns, too. \n There was a counterpoint in the label world after some court cases resulted\nin a company's revising its grape sourcing to comply with tightened\nrequirements for 75% in-county fruit in order to remain legal in designating\nthe wine as from \"Napa\". One rambling article's author counted 16\noccurrences of the word Napa on the newly designed label of a famous budget\nwine producer's 2005 Napa cabernet sauvignon. \n August 31, 2010 at 02:04 PM \n\n\nJohnLopresti said... The links for @2:04: \n\nKelo\">http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=000&invol=04-108\">Kelo \n\nhttp://citizensvoice.com/arts-living/2.212/2.213/fred-franzia-wine-s-archie-bunker-with-a-dose-of-donald-trump-1.564510?\nlocalLinksEnabled=false \n August 31, 2010 at 02:06 PM \n\n\nfredric koeppel said... what business is it of State government what\nterminology goes on wine labels? those concerns belong to the federal govt\nand the TTB, which already mandates, in fairly exhaustive detail, what goes\non front and back labels. and how can the state legislature single out two\ncounties (first Napa, now Sonoma) for this treatment? are they going to go\nthrough the wine-producing counties one by one? \n August 31, 2010 at 02:23 PM \n\n\nJohnLopresti said... vive la OIVV OIV_Wine_Labelling_Standard_EN_2006 \n re at Fredric K's BTYH website there is a review discussing MacRostie pinot\nnoir. I had thought of the kiltman with respect to a new AVA in Yorkville\nhighlands, thinking the Scot might have interest in playing the bagpipes in\nthe uplands. Then, at Steve's site there is an interesting discussion of his\ncurrent ongoing efforts with blends from Carneros and Sonoma Coast. It's\neasy to get lost in nomenclatures, when one is striving for new concepts. \n In a way, all this tries to approach terroir from a slight distance; plus\nthe historical distinctions between the two premium distinctive varietal\nregions, Napa county and Sonoma county. Winkler heat summation datapoints\nalso clarified several decades ago some of the plant physiologic\nunderpinnings of why Napa county and Sonoma county were the natural leaders\nin premium winegrape production. There are many reasons why the new labeling\nrequirement makes sense from all these perspectives. \n September 01, 2010 at 04:22 PM \n\n\nJohnLopresti said... sorry, I keep forgetting the Fermentation site's html\nprotocol; here is the OIVV label guideline link again:\nhttp://news.reseau-concept.net/images/oiv_uk/Client/OIV_Wine_Labelling_Standard_EN_2006.pdf \n September 01, 2010 at 04:25 PM \n\n\nEl Jefe said... OK, so here's the real requirement: \n \"Any wine labeled with an American Viticultural Area established yada yada,\nthat is located entirely within yada yada, shall bear the designation\n\"Sonoma County\" on the label in a type size not smaller than two millimeters\non containers of more than 187 milliliters or smaller than one millimeter on\ncontainers of 187 milliliters or less.\" \n If I recall correctly, this is almost exactly the same as the requirement\nfor the government warning type size. \n So the answer seems pretty clear to me: just add \"Sonoma County\" to the\ngovernment warning. \n September 01, 2010 at 05:00 PM \n\n\nJohnonwine said... \"They [Honore Comfort and the Sonoma County Vintners]\npoint to the prestige that the \"Napa Valley\" designation carries. But this\nprestige has nothing to due with the law that demands \"Napa Valley\", in\naddition to simply \"Rutherford\", be placed on these wines. It has to do\nentirely with the promotional effort that has gone into making \"Napa Valley\"\na place associated with great wines. \n Such an association will not be made with \"Sonoma County\" wines...ever. \n Tom, I would suggest that all Napa wineries, good and bad, benefit from\nhaving Napa Valley on the label; it is indeed a great example of marketing -\nwhat you describe as promotional effort. \n Perhaps the proponents of the law are not doing the job they were hired to\ndo, perhaps the SCV needs a more passionate communicator on their marketing\nteam, putting together the quality promotion you suggest is impossible. \n Sonoma County, with roughly half of the wineries of Napa County, wins\nroughly twice as many gold medals in national and international wine\ncompetitions. That, the fact that their wines cost less on average, and the\nwineries are friendlier, less snooty is a compelling story to get out to the\npublic. \n Heck, if folks knew all that, maybe folks would be seeking out bottles with\n\"Sonoma County\" on the label. \n You suggest that this is a bad law, that Sonoma County will never be\nassociated with high quality wine in the way Napa County is. I disagree, but\nI am eternally hopeful, optimistic that the Sonoma County Vintners will\ninject a little passion and not more of the same old staid and boring in\ntheir marketing communications. I have confidence they will change, retool,\nimprove, live up to their responsibilities. \n I worked selling and marketing Sonoma County wines, I won awards for my\nmarketing efforts. The story is simple. People are receptive to it. Selling\nthe magic of Sonoma County wines is easy. \n That's my take anyway, I don't aim to be contrarian, but I don't mind being\nthe sole supporter of the law - as a Sonoma County born and bred wine guy. \n September 03, 2010 at 08:21 PM\n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "Fermentation_Eminent-Domain", "class": "blog"}
{"subclass": null, "text_id": "written/blog/Fermentation_HR5034", "text": "\n\n\nH.R. 5034: The Lies, The Facts, The Fictions\n\n\nWith so much at stake for America's alcohol wholesalers and their protected\nmonopoly status that props up unearned profits, it's no surprise they would\nswing for the fences with all their state-granted political power and\nattempt to pass H.R.\n5034 . This bill, currently in Congress, would give wholesaler\nlobbyists the means to turn back the clock on consumer access to wine, lead\nto the passage of laws that override federal regulations on alcohol, kill\njobs and business that focus on artisan production of wine, beer and\nspirits, punish and dismantle small specialty wine retailers that serve the\nconsumers that wholesalers won't and override the critical Constitutional\nprinciple of a single American economic union...all for the sake of\nprotecting wholesaler profits by giving them unprecedented control and\ninfluence over the entire American alcohol industry.\nBut what is truly remarkable (and likely a result of the wholesalers' hubris\nstemming from 75 years of being granted government welfare) is their\nwillingness to misrepresent facts, ignore the truth, and mislead in their\ndefense of H.R. 5034.\nThe recently launched www.hr5034.org\nwebsite is the creation of the National Beer Wholesalers Association and and\nappears to be the repository all the misrepresentation, ignorance and\nmisleading ideas supporters of H.R. 5034 could possibly muster.\nFor the sake of context and setting the record straight, this post address\nmany of the misrepresentations and misleading claims made at the middlemen's\ndisingenuous new website.\nOn their homepage ( http://www.hr5034.org/ )\n\n\"Today\u2019s system balances competition with public safety to\nensure that consumers can enjoy alcohol without suffering the negative\neffects of an unregulated marketplace\"\n\n\nIs there really any competition when the state-based\nregulatory system the wholesalers love so much require that producers of\nalcohol use a wholesaler to bring their goods to market, meaning that\nwithout use of a wholesaler a producer cannot enter a state's market? It\nalso means that wholesalers get to decide what consumers drink, not\nconsumers.\n\n\n\"Unfortunately the effective state-based regulatory system in\nthe U.S. is under attack. Over the past 10 years,more than 25 states\nhave faced challenges in federal courts to their authority to regulate\nalcohol and their ability to maintain a licensed system of alcohol\ncontrols.\"\nThe only challenges to the state-based alcohol regulatory\nsystem are those that discriminate against interstate commerce for\nprotectionist reasons. Even in the wake of successful suits that\nchallenged the protectionist laws that wholesalers originally pushed,\nthe state retained extraordinarily broad authority to maintain a robust\nsystem of alcohol controls.\n\nON THE \"LEARN MORE\" PAGE ( http://www.hr5034.org/learn-more ) \"Litigation\nagainst the states brought by those wishing to deregulate alcohol for\ntheir own economic interests is of great concern to state alcohol\nregulators, state attorneys general, public health advocates and many\nothers.\"When the economic interests of producers,\nretailers and consumers are horsewhipped by states doing the bidding of\nwholesales who receive more government protection and welfare from the\nstate than any other industry in america, you might expect them to fight\nback. As for those that have \"concern\", let's recall that it's only a\ntiny fraction of state alcohol regulators, that there is no formal\nsupport from state attorneys general, only a mere handful of public\nhealth advocates, a selection of recipients of campaign contributions\nfrom wholesalers and wholesalers themselves that support H.R.\n5034 .\n\n\"According to a recent national poll conducted by the Center\nfor Alcohol Policy, 79% of respondents support the right of individual\nstates to set their own laws and regulations surrounding the sale of\nalcohol and 87% agree that state and local laws regarding alcohol\nregulations should be decided by lawmakers and citizens, not by\njudges.\"\nI'm shocked, shocked i say, that the \"center for alcohol\npolicy\" is an arm of the national beer wholesalers association and that\nit would conduct a poll that finds results supporting those that funded\nthe poll. Does it get any more illegitimate?\n\nOn the \"Fact v. Fiction page ( http://www.hr5034.org/fact-vs-fiction ) \"FACT: This\nbill does not address direct shipping or any specific state alcohol law.\nIt does not preempt a state law that allows direct shipping. It does not\nmandate a direct shipping law where there currently is not one. The bill\ndoes PROTECT a state\u2019s wine shipping law if someone were to challenge it\nin court by providing the shipping law with the same presumption of\nvalidity granted other state alcohol laws.\"Disingenuous in the extreme. And what's worse, the wholesalers knew\nthis when they wrote this. H.R. 5034 gives states the ability to pass\nlaws unchallengeable in court that would discriminate against\nout-of-state wine shippers. And we know such laws would be introduced\ninto various states since wholesalers have seen to it that such laws\nhave been introduced into state legislatures for the past 20 years. In\nfact, H.R. 5034 would allow states to pass laws that make consumers\nreceipt of a wine by in-state shippers legal while making receipt of a\nwine by out-of-state shippers punishable to a greater degree than rape,\nhome invasion or selling cocaine to children. \"Fact:\nProtection of a state\u2019s power to regulate alcohol is not an \u201cindustry\nfood fight.\u201d \"food fight\" may be the wrong word.\nBetter to call the introduction of H.R. 5034 what it is: an attack on\nthe entire alcohol industry and consumers for the sake of protecting\nwholesaler profits. It's no coincidence that brewers large and small,\nwineries, spirit producers and importers, retailers, wine education\norganizations, wine consumers and free trade organizations all oppose\nH.R. 5034.\n\n\n\"This bill does not amend or alter the Federal Alcohol\nAdministration Act (FAA Act) which provides federal guidelines in many\nof these areas\"\nNo it doesn't \"amend\" the faa act. It overrides it entirely.\nTo quote from H.R. 5034:\n\"not withstanding that the state or territorial law\nmay burden interstate commerce or an act of congress, the state law\nshall be upheld...\"\nThis claim by the wholesalers that H.R. 5034 \"does not\namend\" federal regulations on alcohol is a straight up\nmisrepresentation. It's like saying \"i didn't kick the dog, but rather\nhis ribs fell on to my boot\".\n\n\n\"It is the intent of this language to make clear the\ncongressional support for the holding in Granholm-prohibiting state laws\nthat allow an in-state winery to do something a similarly situated\nout-of-state winery cannot do. Language that bars facial discrimination\nis included in the bill to codify this prohibition\"\nI have great faith in the wholesalers' ability to mislead.\nBut this goes beyond even my expectation. The intent of H.R. 5034 is\nprecisely to overturn the granholm v. Heald supreme court decision that\ndid away with protectionist state alcohol laws. More importantly, the\nvery language of H.R. 5034 gives states the explicit right to\ndiscriminate against out-of-state wine shippers. All the state needs to\ndo is offer the feeblest of justifications. Read for yourself: \"state or\nterritorial regulations may not facially discriminate, without\njustification, against out-of-state producers of alcoholic beverages in\nfavor of in-state producers.\" one of those \"justifications\", the bill\nstates, is maintenance of the \"structure of the state alcoholic beverage\ndistribution system.\" in other words, discrimination is ok as long as\nthe discrimination is written into the state's alcohol beverage\ndistribution laws. Furthermore, note that wine retailers are not even\ncovered by this duplicitous language on \"justification\". The state needs\nno justification to discriminate against out-of-state retailers. \n\n\n\"Over half the states have been sued challenging their\nalcohol laws. The lawsuits have attacked items such as commonsense\nsafeguards that require a face-to-face transaction (needed for I.D.\nchecks) to buy alcohol\"\nIn fact, face-to-face transactions are not needed for I.D\nchecks. We know this because states have written laws that have gone\nunchallenged that require I.D. Checks to be made at the point of\ndelivery of the wine. \n\n\n\"Unelected judges should not set alcohol policy; this\nresponsibility rightly rests with individual state legislatures, as\nguaranteed under the 21st Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.\"\nJudges never have set policy. State legislatures always\nhave. This is the big lie the wholesalers tell. Judges merely tell the\nstate when they have reached beyond what the 21st Amendment allows.\nAfter that, the state legislatures, in every state where litigation has\naffected badly crafted laws, went about legislating a fix. Surely the\nwholesalers don't mean to say that state alcohol laws should in no way\nbe required to abide by the principles in the u.S. Constitution. What\nnext, will the wholesalers argue the 21st amendment give the states the\nright to prohibit women from buying alcohol? Will they argue that state\nlaws banning African-Americans from being distributors is legal under\nthe 21st Amendment?\n\n\n\"State laws that raise concerns can and should be addressed\nin the state legislature.\"\nLucky for Americans it wasn't this attitude that ruled the\nday when jim crow laws were in place. The wholesalers would have argued\nthat the racist \"separate but equal\" philosophy had no business being\nlitigated and that we should wait for the legislatures that enacted the\nracist laws to overturn them with new laws. We have courts precisely to\nadjudicate concerns with the fairness and constitutionality of state\nlaws. But of course, wholesalers know this. They to have brought states\nto court over alcohol distribution laws they didn't think were fair or\nconstitutional. It appears that wholesalers don't like the courts\ninvolved when the decision don't go their way.\n\nThe hypocrisy, misleading notions and disinformation being featured at the\nwholesalers website supporting H.R. 5034 is staggering. However, they do the\nright thing when they invite readers to sign up for emails that will deliver\n\"the latest developments\". I urge all readers to sign up for those emails .\nIn the mean time, please checkout the website that spurred the wholesalers to\nlaunch their own: http://www.stophr5034.org. It is published by the\nSpecialty Wine Retailers Association and upon reading through it, you should\nfind yourself feeling much cleaner and less soiled than after wading through\nthe misrepresentations of the new wholesaler-sponsored website on H.R.\n5034.\n\n> Comments\n Scott said... Too bad there's not a way to shout louder\nthan all caps. Maybe try more exclamation points.... July 16,\n2010 at 06:13 AM \n Judd Wallenbrock said... Tom -- thanks so much for\nkeeping us all up to date and informed regarding this silly...but very\nreal threat...not only to our industry but to our basic rights as\nconsumers. July 16, 2010 at 08:14 AM \nTom Wark said... Scott: Thanks for the tips. Judd: my\npleasure! July 16, 2010 at 09:42 AM \nBill Sprow said... Get rid of thewe beer and wine\ndistributor associations, ie make them illegal, and you would really be\nshowing a free market work in progress. If I as a resident of Ohio want\nto purchase a bottle of Californis wine on line and have it shipped to\nme in Ohio without interference from anyone else. July 16, 2010\nat 10:41 AM \nAustin SEO said... Interesting!, Wholesalers\nissue.Thanks for sharing your link. I enjoyed reading your post. \nJuly 17, 2010 at 12:35 PM \nJohnLopresti said... Thought I would post a link with a\ncute title related to the post. NB: the article is in a trade journal\navailable by online subscription $ only.\nhttp://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202463630848&Alcohol_bill_means_happy_hour_for_lobbyists\n July 19, 2010 at 08:53 AM \nSteve said... Tom: Thanks for this passionate polemic, a\nforeceful and sorely needed rebuttal to a bogus bill. July 19,\n2010 at 09:10 AM \nTom said... Seems like some old geezers are filling\ntheir pockets with some major greenbacks getting this bill passed\nthrough. Its a blatant anti-competition bill that will crush the\nuniqness of the alchohol/wine industry, kinda like Wal Mart moving into\na town and crushing the boutique shops. Since I live in Texas Ill have\nto resort to buying O'Douls and Welchs grape juice after the Baptists\ntake control of the law in the State legislature. Dont even get me\nstarted on the still enacted Blue Laws of this state (cant buy liqour on\nSundays)... July 19, 2010 at 09:12 AM \nr said... Wow! I am speechless. I will not even waste my\ntime rebutting you point by point because you do not have a clue in many\ninstances what you are talking about. You do have a few valid points but\nthey too may be predicated on false premise, I do not claim to be the\nall knowing expert. By using the same sensational BS Tactics you rail\nagainst, instead of a balanced and fair assessment you render the\nentirety of your rant incredible. In short the wine has to go from point\nA to B in some way. Do you work for FedEx? It sounds like you would\nprefer you government welfare to go there instead? Wholesalers compete\nagainst each other... perhaps you forgot. They do not operate\nmonopolies. In Oregon for instance there are about 60 wholesalers\ncompeting for partnerships on both the supply and the demand side,\nhardly the ideal monopoly situation. In most cases where state laws\nallow shipping you can get a bottle of wine shipped from the winery of\nyour choice. A very important point to remember: While large \"commercial\nwineries\" (Factory wine producers) may have the ability to market their\nown wine, smaller growers whom you seem to be so concerned about do not\nhave the proper infrastructure to allow wine sales on line in many\ncases, let alone having their own transportation infrastructure. They\nare experts at farming and producing wine, which is what they likely\nprefer to do in most cases. July 27, 2010 at 09:08 PM \nalean said... wine facts are really good\nhttp://www.facts-about-wine.info/\n arunrob@gmail.com October 13, 2010 at 12:39 PM \ncrystal ortizz said... Quite informative blog.My friends\nwould definitely appreciate knowing these facts. As being a student such\nblogs help me a lot.It is rather interesting for me to read this blog.\nThanks for it. I like such topics and anything that is connected to this\nmatter. I definitely want to read more on that blog soon. \nDecember 06, 2010 at 05:11 AM \ndissertation writing service said... This is my Good\nluck that I found your post which is according to my search and topic, I\nthink you are a great blogger, thanks for helping me outta my problem..\n December 07, 2010 at 12:22 AM \n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "Fermentation_HR5034", "class": "blog"}
{"subclass": null, "text_id": "written/blog/How_soon-Fans", "text": "\n\n\n\nFacebook Fans: You Get What You Pay For\n24 Mar 2010\nby Rick\n\nTake a look at the Facebook Fan Pages of some brands and what you see is not a\npretty picture. Oh, the numbers look good, but when you dig a little deeper a\ndifferent picture emerges. Walls filled with off topic conversations at best,\nvile language and real antipathy for the brand at worst. What happened? Wasn't\nhaving thousands of fans supposed to be a good thing?\nWell, yes and no. Sure, it's great having several hundred thousands fans. But how\ndid you come to get those fans? Did you earn them through fantastic customer\nservice, fulfilling the brand promise, providing value to the community in an\nauthentic and passionate voice, or did you run a Facebook ad campaign and hit\nthe broadcast airwaves with a promotion?\nLet's look at \u00a0 my old favorite , TGI Friday's:\n If you can see this, then you might need a Flash Player upgrade or you need to\ninstall Flash Player if it's missing. Get Flash Player\nfrom Adobe. \nRemember that ad? Pretty cool, right? In fact, as I recall, they got over 1\nmillion Facebook fans. Google TGI Friday's Fan Woody and it looks pretty good.\nBut then something not so awesome happened. All those fans wanted their free\nburgers and they wanted them now! TGI Friday's completely lost control of the\npage and eventually doled out a lot of free burgers.\u00a0Now from a short term\nperspective I'm sure they did ok on the deal. People came in and ate their food.\nBut they could have accomplished that with coupons in the mail, the newspaper or\nby an email list. But they decided to go the Social Media route.\nNow, let's take a look at what the Friday's FanWoody Facebook\u00a0page looks like\ntoday:\nWhoops! It's gone.\nApparently Woody and his\n900,000+ fans went poof . How come? I'm guessing it had something to do\nwith the venom and general anarchy the page had created by buying fans rather\nthan growing them. A TGI\nFriday's Facebook page does exist, with roughly a third of the fans they\nused to have. TGI Friday's pretty much had to spray Agent Orange on\ntheir relationship with 600,000 people.\nIt's easy to pick on TGI Friday's but they certainly aren't the only guilty\nparty. I think plenty of brands have heard the siren call of Facebook ads. The\nability to target your demo is really terrific, but you're in danger of creating\na relationship with fans that ultimately is built on a \"what have you done for\nme lately\" foundation.\nFirst, you essentially bought these fans. You paid Facebook for the right to\ntarget them. Then in the case of TGI Friday's or other brands that offer free\nproduct or discount coupons, you are essentially buying them again. This sets up\na pattern where the consumer now expects to be rewarded for being your fan with\na tangible item, that is, free stuff. That's not a bonus item, it's now a\nstandard part of the agreement. Want me as a fan? Give me free stuff.\nThe point of Social Media isn't to distribute coupons and a real fan wants to\nengage with a brand for a whole host of reasons, often free / discounted product\nis the least of these reasons. I'm not saying that special bonuses, or 'surprise\nand delight' offers aren't ever a good thing. I think when used properly they\ncan be terrific. What do I mean by used properly? As a reward for people who\nhave engaged with the brand in a meaningful way. Send us a picture of you\nwearing a brand t-shirt and sure, you've earned a free sandwich. Recruit some\nfriends and I'm happy to give you all some coupons. But when fans enter the\nrelationship feeling they are entitled to free samples and you're in\ntrouble.\n\n\n\n\n Kathy Sharpe says: April 18, 2010 at 1:02 pm\n\nAbout time there was some acknowledgement of the true value of fans. Even if\nyou have 3 million+ fans and they are all well behaved citizens what is the\nreal marketing value?\n\n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "How_soon-Fans", "class": "blog"}
{"subclass": null, "text_id": "written/blog/How_soon-Lebron-James", "text": "\n\n\n\n\nHow soon is now? Lebron James Makes His Decision: The A-Rod\nRoute\n8 Jul 2010\nby Rick\n\nLebron James is an extremely talented basketball player. He's also a very astute\nindividual who understands how to use the media -- and various communication\nchannels -- to his advantage. He's also managed to surround himself with people\nwho understand business, but I'm starting to wonder if he's lost a bit of\nunderstanding of American culture.\nLebron didn't play college basketball, he went straight from high school to the\npros, and since joining the Cleveland Cavaliers he's won exactly zero NBA\nchampions. \u00a0He's a free agent now and tonight he made his decision about which\nteam he's going to play for in a very public manner, with a live announcement on\nESPN.\nEarlier this week Lebron jumped on Twitter and quickly gained a massive\nfollowing. This morning he announced:\n\nLebron James was of course a trending topic and that hashtag was burning as\nwell.\nBut I'm starting to wonder if Lebron isn't painting himself into a corner, and\nhas maybe misread how quickly sentiment can change.\nSure, Shaquille O'Neal once said,\u00a0 \"I've won\nat every level but college and pro,\" but Shaq was always a larger than\nlife (literally) character who was outgoing and had a great relationship with\nfans. That's one of the reasons\u00a0\nShaq's been a huge hit on Twitter . Lebron doesn't have that sort of\nrelationship with fans. I think an appropriate comparison might be Alex\nRodriguez. An incredibly talented player -- perhaps the best in the game -- who\nwent a very long time without winning a ring.\nBy making his announcement in this public way, Lebron has only heaped more\npressure on himself. Ask A-Rod how the media can turn on you when you put\nyourself above your teammates, above the game. \u00a0James now finds himself in the\nfollowing position:\n1. Winning a title is expected immediately wherever he goes\n2. Not winning a title will be seen as a massive disappointment\n3. Winning a title will result in some saying that he couldn't do it alone\n4. He's put himself in a position where if he leaves Cleveland, every other city\n(and Cleveland) will be rooting against him\nSounds just like Alex Rodriguez, doesn't it? I'm no longer the target demographic\nfor most of the products Lebron endorses, but you know what matters to me?\nWinning championships. Not live prime time press conferences, not\nself-aggrandizing twitter hashtags and not quitting on his teammates during the\nplayoffs.\nLet's see what the future holds for Lebron. We know he'll be rich, but how will\nhe be viewed by fans across the country. Perhaps Lebron should have hired a\u00a0\nChief Culture Officer along with his coterie of other advisors. If I\nwere to fulfill that role for him, I would have told him to go low key with this\ndecision and let it be led by his new team. Make sure it's clear that the team\ncomes first and that he's looking forward to being\u00a0part of the team.\u00a0That the\nonly thing that matters is winning a championship.\nThat that\u00a0was the main factor.\nUpdate:\u00a0\nLebron chooses the Miami Heat and the similarities to A-Rod continue,\nwith Dwyane Wade playing the role of Derek Jeter.\nUpdate 2: And so it begins...\n\n\n\n\nOne Comment\n\n Dan Winkler says: July 9, 2010 at 1:29 am\n\nHeatenfreude?\n\n\n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "How_soon-Lebron-James", "class": "blog"}
{"subclass": null, "text_id": "written/blog/Italy", "text": "\n\n\nWednesday, 26 May 2010\n\n\nThe effect of not being on vacation in Italy on a man with a tall stack of\npapers to grade.\n\nAs you probably noticed, my wife is currently on vacation without me -\u2014 which is different\nthan a vacation from me, although given how frequently insufferable I am,\nI could understand the appeal of such\u2014in the le Marche region of Italy, which is immediately\nsouth of Tuscany and full of communists. As evidence of how thoroughly corrupt the region is, I\npresent a picture (courtesy of her) of the cabin she'll be staying in free of\ncharge until July:\n That's the view she'll be writing her dissertation to the next two months. The region is poor\n(though not so much as I thought) and\npoorly serviced by internet and wifi: there's a router up the hill from her which sometimes\nprovides wifi, but only then into a loft too unbearably hot to occupy during the day. So the\nonly opportunity I have to talk to her (via Skype) is that last hour in the late evening when\nthe loft cools enough to be habitable\u2014provided, of course, that the wifi strength that evening\nis strong enough to establish and maintain a connection. Which it frequently isn't. But this\npost isn't about how melancholy I become when I haven't heard from her by 3 p.m. (which would be\nmidnight over there), because anyone who follows me on Facebook already knows that and because this post concerns Urbino, not my daily descent into emo. \nI've written about Urbino before , but because the wife is providing me with such dazzling photographs\nof the city, I feel compelled to do so again. As I noted in that post, Urbino is not a\n\"built\" city so much as an \"evolved\" one. (The De Landa seems to\nhave become an unwitting\ntheme of late.) Of course it was built , but it was built vertically\nwithin the city walls, meaning that new buildings were constructed atop\nexisting ones like so:\n The effect is the sort of architecture one only finds in dreams or representations of them,\nlike the one in the finale of the fourth season of Buffy the Vampire\nSlayer , wherein Joss Whedon took advantage of contiguous three-walled film sets to depict\nXander Harris moving seamlessly from the upstairs bathroom at Buffy's house:\n\nInto the Initiative's underground bunker: \nThen, from the bathroom-Initiative across the hall:\nInto his parent's basement:\nAnd into an ice cream truck:\nPast the the come-hither lesbians:\nThrough the back of the ice cream truck:\nBy means of a passage: \nThat returns him to you guessed it his parents' basement:\nIn which he exits the same door he originally entered it from Buffy's house only to end up in\nthe halls of Sunnydale High and (shortly) an Apocalypse Now parody:\n The only difference between what Whedon did and Urbino is that you could travel through the\nside streets of Urbino with a camera and accomplish such feats (minus the Coppola) without needing to cut once . Because without leaving officially sanctioned\nlanes of transportation, pedestrians can venture into and through outdoor kitchens, university\ndepartments, the central hallway of apartment buildings, and so on. This photograph of the\ndueling signs for the Hotel Raffaello the wife snapped the other day typifies the way the city\nfeels:\n You can enter the hotel either through the door with the green awning or the second story\nwindow of an adjacent building. (This isn't technically true, but it accurately describes how it\nfeels to those unaccustomed to the city's geography.) The city is even\nmore disturbing, though, because of the tendency of its sidewalks to transform into recessed\nbrick ladders when the street becomes too steep for bipeds\n: That picture is not from the current set, as the relative quality attests, and if I remember\ncorrectly\u2014by which I mean, \"recognize the fingerprints of amateur photographers the world\nover who think a 'good' photograph is one framed in the most dull and predictable way\npossible\"\u2014snapped by me.* I only mention that because in 2002 I visited the city with the\nwife and, as you probably guessed, the real point of this post was to indulge in a bit of\nvicarious vacationing before returning to a stack of ungraded papers that no amount of actual\ngrading seems to have the power to reduce. \n*If it wasn't, even Homer nods? No, but seriously, if that's not a picture I actually took,\nit's exactly the sort I relentlessly take, whereas check out the wife's chops above: the woman has\nan eye .\n\n\n\nIf she is working, she is not on vacation. AND this time apart will make you stronger and\nmake you realize marriage is work and you need to put some in or the marriage dies and you are\nleft with an empty hole in your heart. I know this is over kill, but you need to get out of\nthe funk you are in and grade the papers and finish the course so you can get some down time\nand catch up on your sleep.\n Posted by: alkau | Wednesday, 26 May 2010 at 11:11 AM\n\n\nhave a happy vacation that place looks fascinating I should get a passport\n Posted by: happyfeet | Wednesday, 26 May 2010 at 09:57 PM\n\n\nhappy, I don't normally like to contradict you, but in this case I must: I'm not the one on\nvacation, sadly. I'm having to live it through my beautiful, vacationing wife.\n Posted by: SEK | Wednesday, 26 May 2010 at 10:18 PM\n\n\noh. Sorry I got confuzzled.\n\nI can't wait to get Alzheimer's so I can watch Buffy again like it was the first time.\n Posted by: happyfeet | Saturday, 29 May 2010 at 12:23 PM\n\n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "Italy", "class": "blog"}
{"subclass": null, "text_id": "written/blog/lessig_blog-carbon", "text": "\n\n\n\nUnited carbon offset disappointment\nApril 27, 2009 9:08 AM\n\n\nI'm a big believer in carbon offsets (not so much the cap and trade game, but in\nthe simple internalize-your-externality-sort). I talk about it in my Green\nCulture talk. IMHO, we all have an ethical obligation to offset our carbon\nfootprint -- now. My wife and I have been doing so for a couple years. We're a\ncouple months late buying credits for last year.\n\nOne reason we're late (other than the obvious) is the insane complexity in\ncalculating it well. I travel way too much. That's the biggest chunk to cover.\nBut to calculate it accurately requires churning through a pile of flights. I\ncould estimate, no doubt. But I want something more accurate.\n\nSo I was really happy to see on the United page an announcement of a \"Carbon\nOffset Program.\" What I expected it to be was a simple way to at least know what\nthe total carbon footprint from your flights for some period was (after all,\nthey have all the data), and ideally, a simple way to buy offsets.\n\nNo such luck. United has simple linked to one of the million places where you can\ncalculate a per flight carbon cost. It\nallows you to input total miles flown, but its Mileage Plus page doesn't give you\ntotal miles flown, it gives you the\ntotal added to your account (included bonuses, etc.)\n\nLooking forward to version 2.0.\n\nPosted by Lawrence Lessig on April 27, 2009 9:08 AM\n\n\n\nComments (14) April 27, 2009 9:42 AM\n\nPeter Collopy: Dopplr has a nice carbon calculator built-in. You have to\nenter all your trips, but I think it's generally an exciting system if you\ndon't mind the Little Brother surveillance.\n\n\nApril 27, 2009 9:49 AM lessig: GREAT point. I do enter all mine in. Perfect\nsolution.\n\n\nApril 27, 2009 9:53 AM\nPadraic: Why aren't you a supporter of cap & trade? Isn't a mandatory\nscheme going to moresuccesful than voluntary measures?\n\n\nApril 27, 2009 10:20 AM lessig: I favor a mandatory scheme -- internalize\nyour externality. I am suspicious of cap & trade. It seems like a\ncomplicated partial version of that, created by the same genius quants who\ngave us the mess on wall street, that is designed to generate large fees\nfinance types. My sense is for a simpler system.\n\n\nApril 27, 2009 12:07 PM Padraic Ryan: Re: cap & trade - you shouldn't use\nthe financial crisis as an excuse to write off all of economics. A cap &\ntrade system worked very well at reducing sulfur dioxide pollution in the\nUS, finance types and all. You're right that a carbon tax is definitely\nsimpler, but there are upsides to cap & trade as well (such as the fact\nthat the market will drive the price up, whereas a tax won't increase unless\nCongress wants it to).\n\nRe: your green culture talk, I think you are misappropriating the Gore clip:\nisn't he saying that your money would be better spent on political\ncandidates and organizations that push for mandatory internalizing of\nexternalities (changing the laws) instead of on carbon offsets (changing the\nlightbulbs)? My problem with carbon offsets and other voluntary measures is\nthat given the finite amount of money, energy and attention we have to push\nfor the environment, I feel like the opportunity cost of these measures is\ntoo high compared to policy-oriented actions, the citizen role that Gore\nreferred. For example, Earth Hour would be much more productive if it were a\nglobal rally for carbon taxes; instead we de-politicize it and entertain the\nidea that voluntarily turning off lights will stop climate change.\n\nI'm a big fan of your work on IP and corruption, but I'm skeptical of these\ninitial ventures into the environmental arena...\n\n\nApril 27, 2009 12:17 PM mark: \"I am suspicious of cap & trade. It seems\nlike a complicated partial version of that, created by the same genius\nquants who gave us the mess on wall street, that is designed to generate\nlarge fees finance types. My sense is for a simpler system.\"\n\nThat just shows you do not fully understand the cap and trade model....or the\nglobal financial crisis.\n\n\nApril 27, 2009 2:51 PMCathy: When you book a route on United it tells you how\nmany miles it will accrue, pre-bonus, for each leg. (I use it to calculate\nhow many I'll get towards my premier status.) It's a tiny link they move\naround from time to time, but look for it near where the seat selection\noption is. You should see this on a screen before you purchase the ticket,\nand possibly also after.\n\n\nApril 27, 2009 4:45 PM Brad Templeton: When I got to United's site it has two\ncolumns, one for true miles flown (sort of) and one for elite bonus. So cut\nand paste into your spreadsheet and it should be fine. However, it does show\n500 for the short haul flights, but I bet those are mostly L.A. so you can\nfill in the real mileage to L.A. on those, it should not take long. April\n27, 2009 6:03 PMYaacov Iland: I'd check into the effectiveness of carbon\noffsets, particularly tree plantations, before spending money on them:\nhttp://www.newint.org/features/2006/07/01/keynote/\n\n\nApril 28, 2009 9:03 AM Jardinero1: The only way to reduce your carbon\nfootprint, is to reduce your carbon footprint, period. Paying someone else\nto do something they are doing, already, does not reduce your carbon\nfootprint one bit.\n\nIf you don't believe that and still insist on paying someone else to consume\nless, then please consider paying me. My wife and I telecommute. We rarely\ntravel. I ride my bike to the grocery store. We cook from whole ingredients\nand never eat processed or prepared foods. Both of our cars are high mpg and\nrarely used. They are both ten years old and we probably won't replace them\nfor another ten years. I just finished insulating my house and installed\nhigh efficiency windows and HVAC. I keep the thermostat high in the summer\nand low in the winter. All the light bulbs are fluorescent, except for the\ndimmer above the dining room table. I removed all the turf from my property\nand replaced it with vines and perennials. There are twenty three trees on\nthe property sequestering CO2 on a continuous basis. No motorized equipment\nis required to maintain my garden which is now over ten thousand square feet\nof CO2 consuming plants.\n\nI would gladly accept the sum of fifteen thousand dollars from Prof Lessig or\nanyone else to offset his carbon heavy lifestyle. In return, I would submit\nto an audit of my lifestyle and I would issue him a certificate stating the\namount of his carbon offset.\n\n\nApril 29, 2009 4:00 AM Eric the Red: Carbon credits: indulgences for the\nnon-Catholic crowd. More modern, but just as dumb.\n\n\nApril 29, 2009 7:18 AM pb: \"we all have an ethical obligation to offset our\ncarbon footprint -- now\"\n\n\nThere is nothing so dangerous as someone with an abundance of\nself-righteousness but very little knowledge.\n\nCarbon offsets 'harm environment'\nhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6378471.stm Tuesday, 20 February\n2007, 17:31 GMT\n\n\nJutta Kill, of the Forests and the European Union Resource Network (FERN),\nwas the most vehement opponent of the practice, arguing it probably did more\nharm than good.\n\nCarbon offsetting was \"an unbelievably inefficient way of reducing\nemissions,\" she argued, and its effects were impossible to verify.\n\nIn addition, \"More than half\" of the money given to companies selling carbon\noffsets went on research and administration costs, \"benefiting not the\nclimate but the burgeoning consultancy industry\".\n\n\"We believe it is worse than nothing because it creates the illusion, or the\nimpression, in the public that action is being taken, while we are not\nreally addressing the task at hand, significantly reducing greenhouse gas\nemissions,\" Ms Kill told MPs.\n\n\nIllusions are powerful around here, it seems. Professor - stop listening to\nyour \"intuitions\" and do some basic research!\n\n\n\nMay 14, 2009 2:45 PM Jason Sperling: It's nice to see feedback on the United\nprogram. I've posted your feedback on my carbon offsets news blog.\n\nCurrently many companies are reticent to putting something in their purchase\npath as an upsell, just as they are reticent to putting anything in their\npurchase path. The cost for large companies to make any updates to their\ne-commerce sites is significant, another factor in keeping the type of\nprogram you'd like from being available. Additionally, there is a reluctance\nto share the data required for accurate emissions measurement due to\nperceived potential risks, possibly related to future regulatory\nconcerns.\n\nThe technology is certainly available. When the type of program you imagine\nIS put in place, the results have been very good. For example ShopGreen\nMerchant Reports 90% of customers 'go green'\n\n\nJune 10, 2009 12:18 PM jason: check out this great new idea to offset\n\nhttp://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/06/man-auctions-own-carbon-offsets-on-ebay.php\n\nHere's the link to the auction\n\nhttp://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320381623555&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMESELX%3AIT\n\n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "lessig_blog-carbon", "class": "blog"}
{"subclass": null, "text_id": "written/blog/Seedbombing", "text": "\n\n\n\n\n\n\nThis is the first in a series of articles by guest blogger The\nApocalyptic Housewife .\n\n\n\nSomewhere in California, a blighted, mosquito-vector abandoned property is\nabout to get an echinacea dose via seedbomb.\n\nSeedbombing combines elements of childhood disgruntled mudbomb-hurling; the\nbalance of meticulousness and zen that good gardeners possess; and my own\nforte, the invisibility and vigilance of a sniper.\n\nIt also requires a certain attitude. The first step to seedbombing is: 1.\nUnderstand that a job worth doing is worth doing crappily.\n\nYou will fuck it up . Live with this. Embrace it. \nNothing worth\ndoing was learned perfectly the first time. If Mother Nature herself were\nperfect, she wouldn't need us urban urchins to help cover her\nscars with flowering seeds.\n\nHere's where we started -\n\n\nGift seeds of California Poppy via Jessica Reeder's mom. Thanks,\nMamaHun.\n\n\n2. Mix in seeds.\n\nUse seeds of any kind, even dumpster-salvaged ones, or the ones that might be too\nold for the garden.\n\nYou can mix them with a 30/30/40 mix of potting soil, worm casings and clay. Or\nyou could go out to the shed and grab a few handfuls of that sod mix you got at\nthat estate sale last year and get to mixing.\n\n\nNOTE: Cover your work area. Dust can fly into your mouth and\neyes very easily. If the fertilizer in the mix is what I think it is, that\nwouldn't be pretty. Use gloves to break up the soil with your\nfingers.\n\n\n3. Make bombs.\n\nForm the mix into balls of any size from sling-shot-pellet up to softball.\nYou're going to be throwing them. Customize it yourself.\n\nMine were more or less matzoh-ball size and shape, out of habit. This worked out\npretty well.\n\nAllow to dry overnight, or until they're solid enough for the next\nstep.\n4. Throw.\n\nToday, I kept it simple. I chose one abandoned property a few minutes from\ndowntown, and two vacant lots. The leftovers went onto the jungles alongside the\nfreeway offramps.\n\n\nFirst lesson learned -- you need at least two people to seedbomb from a\nvehicle . The first responsibility should be driving safely. I found this\nhard to do while also avoiding cops, dealing with the camera and the car window,\nscoping out angles of approach for throwing, etc.\n\nI ended up with a broken fingernail and dirt all over my lap. Also, a perfect\nstrike. But you'll have to take my word because a camera at that moment\nwould have been crazy.\n\nSecond Lesson -- keep the seedbombs in a shallow covered container .\nYou want both tidiness and easy access. Plus, those things are crumbly. I made\neight; the last two were totally pulverized after being jostled in a paper bag\nfor half an hour.\n\nAnd the last lesson -- have fun . It's play. Seedbombing is a\nhit-or-miss way for change to take root, pun intended. It's chlorophyll\ngraffiti. No one I know is getting digg'd or favrd yet for throwing color\nand scent around the ghetto. Do it to see how it feels. You may want to keep\nchecking on your flowers (I promise I will) or you might get an idea to do\nsomething else completely unexpected (I did).\n\nEnzo Angolini spike heels found by serendipity at St Paul's Thrift for\n$3.98. Sexy, non?\n\n\nFor example, make smaller wildflower seedbombs and carefully 'plant' them\nin a meridian by making holes in the ground with your heel and then gently tamping\nthe dirt over them with your sole.\n\nThis is also good practice for looking lost and cluelessly invisible. More on that in\nfuture posts.\n\n5. Enjoy.\n\n\nEarth is my friend, like that old classmate who you keep forgetting to drop a note to\non Facebook.\n\n\nWhen I took a victory lap and hand-wash break in the mall, I was happy, not in a\nsmug superior way, but in the knowledge that I had avenged myself against the\nwhole Sunday-at-the-mall culture that I felt smothered by. I did it by throwing\nflowers all along those places no one goes, but where our planet's future\nlives.\n\nThere is one over-riding message to this -- Quit being such a goddamned\nperfectionist. Yes, yes, I know, you know of much better places\nto never throw those seedbombs you haven't made. You could get better soil\nif you put it on the shopping list. You undoubtedly write much better and could\nhave a real serious article with awesome non-blurry pictures taken by a person\nwho actually can get the timer to work for a goddamn change. The actions that\nyou never do are absolutely perfectly effective, in your imagination.\nBut my actions accomplished something today.\n\nWhich brings us back to: 1. A job worth doing is worth doing crappily.\n\nThis blog is the digital proof.\n\n\n\n\n6 Responses to \"The Apocalyptic Housewife Goes Seedbombing\"\n\n\n\nKate 25. Nov, 2009 at 3:37 pm\n\nDid this with my aunt in Griffith Park after the last bout of fires.\nDidn't know there was a term for it- my mom and aunt have been seed\nbombing for years. They'll be glad to know it is catching on among the\nunder-60 set.\n\n\n\n\nRaggedy Anarchy 25. Nov, 2009 at 5:46 pm\n\nThanks for commenting, Kate. Your mom and aunt sound great.\n\nI used to see this old scary dude walking around checking the trees in\nGriffith Park for Dutch Elm Disease. Turns out he had been a brilliant\nbiology student before losing derferment and going to Vietnam. Thanks for\nmaking me remember him.\n\nWe are everywhere.\n\n\n\n\nSummer 26. Nov, 2009 at 10:52 am\n\nLoved this!\n\n\n\n\nbrian 14. Dec, 2009 at 8:10 pm\n\nDidn't know there was a name for this. Awesome idea though. My wife and\nI did this when we lived in Texas ... planted blue bonnets in a state\npark. Yeah, I know, \"Texas has plenty of blue bonnets,\" you\nsay ...\n\nWell we thought they could use more.\n\n\n\n\nJessica Reeder 15. Dec, 2009 at 9:08 am\n\nHey Brian, thanks for stopping by! That was nice of you. \n\nThere is no such thing as too many flowers. Well done.\n\nWe just made seedbombs for our holiday gift baskets; they're a mix of\nflowers from the yard, heavy on the poppies.\n\n\n\n\nI am not nice, young, hip, white, rich, educated, suburban or any of the other\nthings you are unconsciously assuming anyone who loves the earth must be. My\ndiscontent is the mother of invention, and by invention, I mean creative\nre-purposing.\n\nI love bringing apt quotations and poems to awkward occasions the way another\nguest would bring a box of See's. Actually, I do that, too. Anyone who doesn't\nhave a sweet tooth is bound to have a mean streak, and freegan chocolates are\nperfectly salvagable most of the time.\n\n\nThat's me. I'm the Apocalyptic Housewife. I take pictures and have ideas and\nenjoy my thoughts and try to do a little something less about consuming and more\nabout redemption every day. It makes me a little nicer.\n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "Seedbombing", "class": "blog"}
{"subclass": null, "text_id": "written/blog/sucker", "text": "\n\n\nTayari's Blog: There's A Sucker Born Every Minute\n\nPosted by Tayari Jones on March 3, 2008 10:57 PM \n\n\n\nAnd apparently, they all go to work in publishing.\n\nThis has been a bad week for liars. First the holocaust survivor who said she was literally\nraised by wolves turns out to be just a regular, if depressed, person. Now, Margaret\nSeltzer, the author of Love and\nConsequences , the highly acclaimed \"memoir\" about her life as a half Native American/half\nWhite gang banger, has been been explosed as a fraud.\n\nIn the vividly told book, Ms. Seltzer wrote about her African-American foster brothers,\nTerrell and Taye, who joined the Bloods gang when they were 11 and 13. She chronicled her\nexperiences making drug deliveries for gang leaders at age 13 and how she was given her first\ngun as a birthday present when she was 14. Ms. Seltzer told The Times last week, \u201cOne of the\nfirst things I did once I started making drug money was to buy a burial plot.\u201d\n\nIt's like a satire of a satire. This is my favorite line in the whole NYT article: \"Sarah\nMcGrath, the editor at Riverhead who worked with Ms. Seltzer for three years on the book, said\nshe was stunned to discover that the author had lied.\" Gotta love that understatement and comic\ntiming.\n\nBut seriously, you may remember an article last summer that appered in TimeOut New York\nabout matters of race in publishing. (My post on the subject here .) This\nwas one of most important quotes from the article: \u201cInvariably,\u201d says Craig, \u201ca\nblack-themed book will come up for consideration, and there won\u2019t be anyone of color to put in\nan opinion, or there\u2019ll be one, who shouldn\u2019t bear the burden alone. So we all pretend we\u2019re\nexperts. Maybe I\u2019m the only one who\u2019s embarrassed by that.\u201d The end result of such\nroundtables, one can only fear, could be that the only books depicting people of color that\nget published are those that do not challenge white assumptions.\n\n\nI can't help but wonder if Ms. Seltzer's book with all it's far-fetched,\ntales-from-the-urban-jungle flair, would have passed the smell test were it read by a more\ndiverse panel of editors. \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nComment #1, by carleen \nI read that article in the Times and IMMEDIATELY thought it was going to be a hoax. But then\nI thought, surely after all the others, she had been vetted to heaven and back. Ha! Guess I'm\na sucker too.\nMarch 3, 2008 11:20 PM\n\n\n\nComment #2, by Michael Fischer \nUm, wow. That is ridiculous.\nMarch 3, 2008 11:43 PM\n\n\n\nComment #3, by Sarah Schulman\nI wonder why they didn't present their books as novels.\nMarch 4, 2008 01:39 PM\n\n\n\nComment #4, by Sarah Schulman \nI wonder why they didn't present their books as novels.\nMarch 4, 2008 01:41 PM\n\n\n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "sucker", "class": "blog"}
{"subclass": null, "text_id": "written/blog/Tupelo-Honey-Cafe", "text": "\n\n\n\nNoshin' at the Tupelo Honey Cafe | Plus, how to get great service in\nbusy restaurants\n\n23 Mar., 2010 \n\n\n\n\n\nBy the time I got to Asheville, I was nearing the end of my journey and the\nbottom of my wallet. The last thing on my mind was spending money: it was\nbeautiful outside, and there were free things to do everywhere.\n\nBut. When I'd posted on Facebook that I was coming to town, no fewer than three people told me\nI just had to visit the Tupelo Honey Cafe . So I checked their website, and instantly fell in\nlove:\n\n\n\"Tupelo Honey Caf\u00e9 opened in downtown Asheville in 2000, an early pioneer in\nthe farm to fork movement and an active advocate for the independent\nrestaurant landscape that pervades the city. Our food is fresh, made from\nscratch, sassy and scrumptious. Our cuisine salutes our love of Southern\ntraditions at the table, but like the good people of Asheville, marches to\nits own drum. The result is a unique riff on Southern favorites.\" tupelohoneycafe.com\n\n\nI was convinced but I wasn't alone. On a sunny Sunday afternoon, the waiting list\nwas an hour long. After hemming and hawing and assessing my food stash\n(contents: 10 saltines), I decided to go for it anyway.\n\nBy the time I finally got a seat at the counter, I was starved. It took me about\nthirty seconds to pick out the Charleston Chicken Sandwich: \"grilled\nmarinated free-range chicken breast on sourdough with melted havarti, romaine\nlettuce and cranberry mayonnaise\". Free range? Cranberry? Havarti? Yes, I\ncould dig it.\n\nWhile I waited for the food, I checked out the back of the store where Tupelo\nHoney Cafe hawks their homestyle wares: preserves, pickles, salsa, honey,\nt-shirts, aprons and all sorts of mini-advertisements for the restaurant.\n\nI've visited plenty of farm-to-fork restaurants, and this one may be the best\nI've seen at self-marketing. There's nothing wrong with it: the food in those\njars is probably delicious, though I question whether the $10 tupelo honey had\nto come from Florida or if it's produced locally.\n\nEither way, it's nice to see a restaurant built on ethics that also happens to be\nincredibly busy. Some of that is surely due to good marketing, but the real\nreason for its popularity is this:\n\nThat sandwich was so good, I found myself eating slower and slower with each bite\nto savor it more completely. The potatoes were light and un-greasy; the flavors\nwere perfectly balanced; the chicken was juicy and rich; and let's be honest\nhere, I'm always happier eating dead animals when I know they've lived a good\nlife. I found myself silently thanking the chicken for its delicious\ncontribution. Thank you, chicken. I will never forget you.\n\nI stopped eating halfway through, not because I was full. I stopped so I could\ntake the rest home and taste it again later.\n\n\nOn another topic, I made a discovery there in the Tupelo Honey Cafe, one which\nI'd like to share with you now.\n\nIf you're going to a busy restaurant and want great service, bring a camera. Take\na few photos of the menu, the kitchen, the food.\n\nNo sooner had I taken the above photo, when a server (not even my server)\nappeared at my elbow. Later when I stopped eating and lifted my napkin from my\nlap, it took approximately three seconds for someone to take my food away to be\nboxed up.\n\nNow, I'm not saying the service before my camera-flash was bad, because it was\nawesome. But wow, it sure improved once I appeared to be some sort of food\ncritic or travel writer.\n\nWhich, it just so happens, I am. But even if you're not, try this out sometime. I\ncan't guarantee it'll work, but I personally will do it againand probably back\nit up with a stellar review, just like the one I've given the Tupelo Honey\nCafe.\n\nEverybody wins.\n\nOkay, that's it! I could talk about Asheville for weeks, but it's time to move\non. Next stop: sunny Tennessee, where I get down on The Farm.\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "Tupelo-Honey-Cafe", "class": "blog"}
{"subclass": null, "text_id": "written/blog/Uprooted_Bike", "text": "\n\n\n\nSave the World, Ride a Bike\na visit to Troy Bike Rescue\n\n30. Sep, 2009\n\nThis post is the first of a three-part series on bike culture. Come back Friday to read about\nanarchy,\nbike jousting, and two-wheeled social protest .\n\nRemember when you got your first bike? Was it a Christmas present, or maybe a birthday gift?\nRemember how much fun you used to have on that bike, how fast you went, how great it felt?\nWell, these days, most kids want an Xbox for their birthday; their parents ride around in\ncars with seatbelts, talking on their\nphones . Cycling is a thing of the past: a sport, a hobby, but rarely a mode of\ntransportation. But I'm here to tell you: riding your bike is still fun, and\nstill fast, and it's the cheapest and most socially responsible workout you'll ever\nget .\nAnd there are no two ways about it: if you give a kid a bike, that kid will ride.\nIn Troy, New York, I met one Andrew Lynn. He's somewhat of a man\nbrain\ntrust , and one of his best creations is the Troy Bike Rescue . It started in 2001, when Andrew\nwould ride around town pulling bikes out of dumpsters. He started hosting work parties with\nfriends in his backyard, teaching them to fix their bikes and helping them get started riding.\nSlowly but surely, the circle grew and Andrew's backyard parties became weekly workshops.\nWhen Andrew decided to leave town for a few years' schooling in NYC, friends and cohorts took\nover operations. By the time Andrew returned, Troy Bike Rescue (let's call it TBR) had a life\nof its own. These days it's an established club, run by volunteers and donations, turning\ntrashed bikes into treasures. Its influence now includes a legitimate downtown storefront; a\nsister shop in Albany ( Albany Bicycle\nCoalition ); movie screenings and pro-cycling political events; and a dedicated core crew\nthat keeps everything rolling.\n\nTBR's customers run the gamut, from businessmen to street kids to college students to\nfamilies. The one thing they have in common? They get it.\n\nThis group understands the value of a bicycle: more than just transportation, a\nbike is a statement against fossil fuels. More than a toy, it's an equalizer that allows poor\nkids to ride with rich. More than a hobby, it's a way of traveling through the world that lets\nyou interact, use your muscles, breathe fresh air -- all for the cost of a free dumpster\nbike.\n\n\nWhen I visited the TBR shop, it was packed with frames, wheels, gears, chains, handlebars,\nkids, and anarchist art (the space is being donated by some supporters who are also\nanti-capitalist activists).\nTBR hosts workshops twice a week. For a few hours, the doors are open to anyone who walks in.\nTools are available, and volunteers will help with advice and knowledge. Parts can be had for a\npittance, and you can pick out your own bike from the stacks and racks of machines filling the\nspace.\n\nThe main focus of TBR, however, is not selling bikes. The idea is to give people a workspace\nand teach them how to maintain their own bicycle. Self-sufficiency is a major tenet of the bike\nmovement, and Troy Bike Rescue is training self-reliant individuals of all stripes.\nAll around me, college students and bike punks tinkered with their machines. An older man\nasked for tips on tuning his racer. A young kid came in to say his last bike was stolen and he\nneeded a new one (and, despite Andrew's stern reprimand that he couldn't just walk in every\nweek and leave with a free bike, he did just that).\n\nA dad came in with his three kids, all of whom left with snazzy rides -- but first, they all\nsat down and worked on their new wheels together.\nAnd as we left at the end of the workshop, a woman walked up to Andrew. \"I love what you do,\"\nshe said. \"I have a whole bunch of bikes to give you.\"\nSee, ultimately TBR is about more than just bicycles. It's about building community, and\ntriggering a quiet but inexorable social movement. This is not the world's first bike\ncollective; in fact it's only one of many that have stealthily sprung up around America. These\ncollectives are not waiting for change to happen: they're creating it through small, positive,\npeaceful actions. You too can change the world: all you have to do is ride a\nbike.\nTry This at Home: Ride Around\nFall is here, which (in most places) means great riding weather. What are you waiting\nfor?\nBikes are cheap: you can get one at your local thrift store for $5-50. It doesn't have to be\nperfect, just good enough to get you places. So pick one up, and ride it to the end of your\nblock! Then keep going!\nEven if your life requires four wheels, you can use a bike for local errands. Ride it to the\ncorner store when you need milk, instead of driving across town to the grocery store. (Don't\nlike the milk they sell? Tell the store owner what you like, and see if he'll carry it. Now\nyou're changing the world.)\nOn weekends, instead of driving to the park, hop on your bike and go exploring. It doesn't\nhave to be a workout: you can just toodle around town and look at stuff. Or, if you're a gym\nbuff, trade a workout for a bike ride. Unless you live on a major highway, odds are you can\nride straight from your front porch to someplace interesting.\nOn vacation, rent a bike instead of a scooter (or, God forbid, a Segway). It's cheaper, and\nmuch better for the local flora&fauna.\nStill not convinced? Then think of it this way: by riding your bike instead of driving your\ncar, you're reducing your consumption of fossil fuels. You can even calculate the money you\nsave on gas, and keep it in a jar for a rainy day.\n\nWant to get involved? Bike clubs tend to be pretty anarchic, but if you look around your\ncommunity you'll find both bike riders and shop owners who ride for change. Can't find a bike\ncommunity? Start your own!\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n5 Responses to \"Save the World, Ride a Bike\"\n\n\n\n\nKaren Turnbull 01. Oct, 2009 at 12:54 pm\n\nwhat a great article, i will be passing it on. In the meantime you might like this blog post\ni cam across: http://blog.sophianetwork.org.uk/2009/09/women-tackling-climate-change.html\n\n\n\nRaggedy Annarchy 01. Oct, 2009 at 12:59 pm\n\nTried/shared/re-tweeted, with pleasure! My old thrift-store basket-handle witch- bike was\nglad to see the light of day again. Even kept Pansy in the basket as my Toto.\nBike rescue is not just for kids. One of my dear friends who can't drive to due to combat\ninjuries had her ride stolen while we were sharing a beer in broad daylight last weekend.\nShame, shame. Her partner is a peace corps alum who also works in a bike shop. I passed along\nthis article to her, and she suggest that when we start our own bike rescue, we'll do like the\nU.S. in East Timor did and graffiti Delta Bike Rescue on all the chassis.\nFall is exactly 79% more tingly when experienced by bike.\n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "Uprooted_Bike", "class": "blog"}
{"subclass": null, "text_id": "written/blog/Uprooted_Farming-on-Sand", "text": "\n\n\n\nFarming on Sand: The trouble with \"eating local\" on Cape Cod |\nUprooted, an eco/travel blog\n\nThis is part 4 of a 4-part series on tourism's impact on Cape\nCod. Read about death \n& carnage in the shell shop , find out about the eco-friendly \nfood scene , look at the pretty pretty sunset , or continue on... \n\nDavid DeWitt doesn't look like a farmer. With his long hair, scruffy beard and\nt-shirt, he'd fit in more at a Phish show than behind a plow. But appearances\nare deceiving, and David's comfy mien belies a passion that is influencing the\nculture of northern Cape Cod.\nTo wit: in 2009, David helped launch the Truro Ag Fair\n -- an event that exceeded all expectations and brought\nhuge crowds to local farmers' booths. He runs the Rock Spray nursery, a\nCertified Natural provider of evergreens and ornamentals. And he manages the\nFirst Light Organic Farm, a lush green spot in a hollow of North Truro. Here,\nDavid and his partner \nArthur Teubner work year-round growing heirloom and hardy fruits and\nveggies to sell at market.\nDavid's a dedicated and inspired agrarian, whose passion for farming keeps him\noptimistic. But farming on the Outer Cape is the sort of Sisyphian challenge\nthat can wear anybody out.\nThe hard truth:\nThe soil of North Truro is not strong enough to support agriculture. Without\nfertilization, it deteriorates shockingly fast.\nDavid points out a patch of sand with a thin strip of fertile loam along the\nedge. Last season it was a fertile veggie bed -- but it was left un-fertilized\nas an experiment.\n\"This is what happens,\" David says. \"You have to keep feeding it\norganic material, or it turns back into sand.\"\n\n\n\n\nThis plot was a test run, left untended for a single\nseason. Last year's rich loam is now useless sand.\n\nIt's always been this way in North Truro. The Outer Cape is really just a spit of\nsand -- but still, farmers lived here for generations. How?\nSalt marsh hay.\nThere used to be a local tradition in this area: at each spring tide , the local community would head out to the bogs and marshes\nto harvest the grasses. This was called \"salt marsh haying\".\nSalt marsh hay has no weed seeds, and it doesn't compact as heavily as other\ntypes of hay. This makes it an excellent and bountiful source of compost, and it\nwas used for generations as a soil enricher. But haying had to happen regularly,\nsays David:\n\"There's so much oxygen in this soil, any added compost gets burned up in six\nweeks. All the nutrients get depleted.\"\nThat means soil left for two months without fresh compost will become -- you\nguessed it -- sand.\nThe only way to keep things going here is to keep a steady flow of compost coming\nin. That means truckloads of hay, and that means a lot of work. Last year, David\nand Arthur brought in a semi truck loaded with leaf mulch. It worked -- but it\ncost money, and it disappeared fast into the hungry ground. Not a long-term\nplan.\nIn bygone times, the whole town of North Truro would pitch in on haying days;\nnow, David's on his own. Without that community support, it's nearly impossible\nfor him to harvest hay often enough to keep the farm green.\nMeanwhile, in Tourist Town USA...\nThe Provincetown farmers market has lovely produce, but little of it was grown on\nthe Cape.\nProvincetown's official population of 3,500\nsupports a tourism industry that serves millions of visitors each year. City\nfolk marvel at the quaint charms of the Cape, its idyllic beauty and simple\npleasures. And then they go out to eat.\nEven if tourists were interested in sustainable food (they totally don't care ), they'd be hard pressed to find a locally-sourced\nmeal. Raina Stefani serves David's produce at her restaurant Terra Luna , but it only makes up a\nportion of her fares: the rest has to be shipped from the mainland. You can't\nsqueeze blood from a stone, and you can't get big vegetable crops from sand\ndunes. End of story.\nWell, not exactly.\nDavid isn't giving up -- in fact, he's got plans and ideas to refashion North\nTruro's farming community. Hence the Ag Fair, and the ongoing experimentation\nwith varieties and soils at First Light. David isn't alone: he's got the support\n(and companionship) of a growing group of gamechangers. If the young farmers and\nfoodies of Truro can organize, they might just be able to get local agriculture\nback on its feet.\nTheir main opponent? The tourism and real estate industries, which insist upon\nturning every arable inch of the Cape into somebody's backyard. The same\npopulation that would consume the food produced here is actively inhibiting its\nproduction.\nNo surprise there. After all, what's the point of farming on the beach?\n\n\n\n2 Responses to \"Farming on Sand\"\n\n Melody M Thibodeau 25. Sep, 2010 at 7:52 am\nIf, someone could start bedding the outer cape's horses, with this Hay/Straw.\nYou know they could. It would be even better for the system. This would\nalso, make it more profitable. The horses. would be heathier. They wouldn't\nhave to be standing on the acidic sand all of the time. The straw/hay could\nalso be a form of supplemental food, for livestock/horses, which has been\nused in before times. The straw, should be separated from the manure and\ndried in the air, then buised, by hooves. Then it is more ready, to be mixed\nwith the soil, in the spring.\n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "Uprooted_Farming-on-Sand", "class": "blog"}
{"subclass": null, "text_id": "written/blog/vampires", "text": "\n\n\nHow soon is now? \"Blog Archive\"\n\nZombies and Vampires and Ninjas and Pirates\n25 Jul 2010\nby Rick\nIt's tough to kill the vampire...genre\nI was noodling on Vampires the other day, but also lumped Zombies, Pirates and Ninjas\nin the mix. These archetypes seem different to me than other 'trends'. Surely the\nVampire was dead after the spoof, \"Love at First Bite \" in 1979. But then the Anne Rice -led revival brought it\nback (technically the 1st \u00a0book, Interview with the\nVampire , \u00a0was published in 1976, but didn't gain widespread popularity until\nlater). Then it jumped the shark with the Tom Cruise-Brad Pitt movie (based on the Anne Rice novel) in 1994. But\nbubbling below the surface was Blade and other genre flicks, then Twilight hit and now vampires are hot. \n Surely Ninjas were done with horrible movies like American Ninja (1985) or with\ncomedies starring Chris Farley ( Beverly Hills Ninja , 1997), and yet Ninja has become a replacement word for\n'expert' to the point where it's almost accepted parlance: A twellow search for\n'ninja' turned up more than 7,000 Twitter accounts using the term in their\nprofiles. \u00a0 Ninja Warrior is one of the\nmost popular shows on G4. \nWe can put Pirates away now after the 3rd Pirates of the Caribbean flick, right? No, actually, if we've learned\nanything it's that genre memes just go back underground ( Pirates for adults [NSFW]You get\nthe point0. These characters are like Zombies (pun intended), they just keep coming\nback to life.\nSo it's not just a matter of knowing when to jump off the Vampire merry-go-round,\nit's knowing when (and where) to jump back on. If you jumped off Vampires would you\nhave known to jump back on in time to publish Twilight? Fourteen literary agents\nrejected it before Stephenie Meyer got a deal. \u00a0If you were off Zombies would you\nhave gotten back on it time to publish NY Times bestseller Pride & Prejudice and Zombies ? I don't think you can \"get off\" any\nof these, you have to triangulate your decision across several nodes of popular\nculture, a triangulation that has to revolve around the audience (young adult --\nTwilght. mature -- True Blood) and sub-genre (comedy, horror, sci-fi...) and then the\nactual quality of the content. So what sort of matrix board do you have to create to\nknow that a NC-17 comedy horror Zombie video game will work, but a PG-13 young adult\ntime-travelling Vampire TV show won't? You can't. \u00a0All you can do is hope you bat\n.300 and that when you fail, you fail\nfast .\nAhh, the classics.\nIf you broaden your scope a bit, I think it would be difficult to find a time over\nthe last 40 years or so when any of these four archetypes didn't have a level of\nbubbling popularity via books, comic books, tv, movies, video games, music. If all\nyou're looking at is 1 or 2 content categories maybe it looks like they're dead, but\nthey may be flourishing elsewhere, and like a virus they're just waiting for a new\nhost to carry them to the mainstream. Publishers, producers, editors, TV\nexecs, they all have to calibrate their decisions based on so many factors, and yet\neven with access to sophisticated data it often comes down to human factors. A gut\ninstinct that something is going to work. Somebody at AMC is greenlighting The Walking Dead based partly on historical evidence that says people like\nZombies, but also partly on the notion that this particular iteration will have a new\ntwist that will bring new people into the (zombie and\nAMC) tent . Personally, I'm waiting for someone to make Pirate Zombies v. Ninja\nVampires. Hey, if they can make Aliens and Cowboys , anything is possible.\nThis post was inspired by a recent post by Grant\nMcCracken . Make sure you read that one too.\n\n\n\n3 Comments\n\nMatthew Duhan says: July 26, 2010 at 5:13 pm\nI don't know about Pirate Zombies v. Ninja Vampires, but there is a game where you\ncan play to become Zombies, Ninjas, Pirates, and Mad Scientists. Zombie Ninja\nPirates, by Gozer Games, is a quick 20-30 minute card game for 2-6 players. You\ncan find more information on our website.\n\nWe do have an expansion planned, which will add Vampires (among other Types) to\nthe mix. There will be more info about that coming soon.\n\n\n\n\nJewell Bardwell says: July 30, 2010 at 4:06 am\nIncredibly effectively performed without a doubt.\n\n\n\n\nEstefana Sjerven says: September 16, 2010 at 8:03 pm\n\nI like twilight! I could sit and watch all day long if I didn't have school..or\nlife to stay me from doing it! lol Wonderful Simply Superb!\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "vampires", "class": "blog"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/12030", "text": "\n\n\nMessage-ID: <12434767.1075852813161.JavaMail.evans@thyme>\nDate: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 10:35:20 -0700 (PDT)\nFrom: theresa.connor-smith@enron.com\nTo: kenneth.lay@enron.com\nSubject: Confidential Question\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\n\n\nDear Ken, \n\nI'm not sure quite were to turn but was hoping you could assist me. I would like to keep this confidential especially regarding the New York Office. As my request has nothing to do with the people in this office or the group they are wonderful\n\nI've been with Enron since '97 and I relocated up to Connecticut to work with the New Power Company when I thought that the Enron employees would stay Enron employees. Afterwards of course we all were changed to NewPower employees. After a couple of months I made the move back to Enron and went to the New York office and work with the Enron Metals group here at 53rd street. (It was never my intention to leave Enron)\n\nSince the bombing I feel very displaced and my husband and I would really like to come back to Houston and was wondering if you could help me. I was on the trading floor working with Dave Delainey's group when he was in ENA and also was the Exec Secretary/Coordinator with the MWB group in George Warsoff's group. \n\nI would appreciate it very much if you were able to assist/guide me.\n\nSincerely,\n\nTeri\n\nTeri Connor-Smith\nAdmin Coordinator\nEnron Metals & Commodities Corp\ntsmith3@enron.com\n(212)715-5601\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "12030", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/12174", "text": "\n\n\nMessage-ID: <28168211.1075860837271.JavaMail.evans@thyme>\nDate: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 07:29:18 -0800 (PST)\nFrom: exenron@hotmail.com\nTo: kenneth.lay@enron.com, mark.pickering@enron.com, beth.perlman@enron.com\nSubject: Thank you all very much for your support - NOT!\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\n\n\nI genuinely believed in Enron and the Values of the company\n\nYou demonstrated that that trust was misplaced and worth nothing\n\nI particularly like your adherance to the core values - you \"respected\" us,\nyou \"communicated\" brilliantly with us, your fucking us over was\n\"excellent\", your \"integrity\" was without question\n\nYou load of bastards - you screwed us all and got fat on the profits of our\nsweat\n\nI hope that the board and upper management rot in jail and never see the\nlight of day again - apart from when you are exercising in the open prison\nyard in your shackles\n\nJust Another Fucked Over Ex-Employee\n\n_________________________________________________________________\nGet your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "12174", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/12176", "text": "\n\n\nMessage-ID: <31386690.1075860837352.JavaMail.evans@thyme>\nDate: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 07:48:06 -0800 (PST)\nFrom: steven.alexander@us.artemisintl.com\nTo: ken_lay@enron.net, kenneth_lay@enron.net\nSubject: A Supportive Note\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\n\n\nDear Mr. Lay:\n\nI'm writing this note to you as a show of support to you during your dire\ntimes. The reason that I share this with you is my respect for you as a\nCEO, a business leader and a person. My wife is one of your employees who\nroutinely shares stories about you that are nothing less than inspiring. I\nknow that during difficult times, sometimes words emerge that can help\npeople through difficult times. I believe that you are sincere man and\nknow that you must be broken hearted, but I hope that this article can help\nyou lead a dispirted workforce to see things more clearly. My wife, Shelly\nPierce, has worked for Enron for the past two years and like many of your\nemployees, has lost a great deal of her life savings. Of course, I accept\nmost of the blame for this for reasons related to this article. I lost my\ninvestment discipline and held out the false hope that Enron could not\nfalter. After reading the article to her while I was out of town, I\nbelieve that her spirit was a bit rejuvenated and she was ready to face the\nchallenges that lay before you.\n\nMr. Lay, I appreciate the opportunity that you have given my wife and our\nfamily and hope that this story inspires you to regain your successes.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nFrom the USA Today, Tuesday, November 27, 2001, page 15A.\n\n\"In recession, face brutal facts, thrive\"\n\n\nBy Jim Collins\n\nA man in his early 20s recently asked me, \"So what's a recession like?\"\nIts an entirely alien concept to him; he'd grown up during the greatest\neconomic boom in modern memory. His question drove home the fact that we\nhaven't faced a severe, protracted economic setback for nearly 2 decades,\nleaving us terribly unpracticed at dealing with tough times.\n\nWith this recession - long in coming, perhaps long to stay - now\nofficially upon us, it is imperative that corporate leaders relearn a key\nlesson about how great companies (and great people) deal with difficult\ntimes differently from how they deal with merely good ones. That lesson is\nthe \"Stockdale Paradox,\" a peculiar psychology shown by those who emerge\nfrom tough times not just intact, but stronger.\n\nAdm. Jim Stockdale was the highest-ranking U.S. military officer in the\nHanoi prison camp during the Vietnam War. Tortured many times during his\n8-year imprisonment, Stockdale lived without any prisoner's rights, no set\nrelease date and no certainty as to whether he would ever again see his\nfamily.\n\nHe shouldered the burden of command while fighting an internal war\nagainst his captors and their attempts to use the prisoners for propaganda.\nAt one point, he beat himself with a stool and cut himself with a razor,\ndeliberately disfiguring himself so that he could not be put on video as an\nexample of a \"well-treated prisoner.\" He exchanged secret intelligence\ninformation with his wife through their letters knowing that discovery\nwould mean more torture and perhaps death. After his release, Stockdale\nbecame the first three-star officer in the history of the Navy to wear both\naviator wings and the Congressional Medal of Honor.\n\nYou can understand, then, my anticipation at the prospect of spending\npart of an afternoon with Stockdale, who happened to be at the Hoover\nInstitute across the street from my office when I taught at Stanford. In\npreparation, I read In Love and War, the book he and his wife wrote to\nchronicle their experiences those 8 years.\n\nAs I read the book, I found myself getting depressed. It just seemed\nso bleak - the uncertainty of his fate, the brutality of his captors. And\nthen it dawned on me: Here I am sitting in my warm comfortable office,\nlooking out over the Stanford campus on a beautiful Saturday afternoon.\nI'm getting depressed reading this, and I know that he gets out, reunites\nwith his family and becomes a national hero. If it feels depressing for\nme, how on earth did he deal with it when he was actually there and did not\nknow the end of the story?\n\n\"I never lost faith in the end of the story,\" Stockdale said when I\nasked him. \"I never doubted not only that I would get out, but also that I\nwould prevail in the end and turn the experience into the defining event of\nmy life that, in retrospect, I would not trade.\"\n\nI didn't say anything for many minutes, and we continued the slow walk\ntoward the faculty club, Stockdale limping and arc-swinging his leg, still\nstiff from repeated torture. Finally, I asked, \"Who didn't make it out?\"\n\n\"Oh, that's easy,\" he said. \"The optimists.\"\n\n\"The optimists? I don't understand,\" I said, completely confused.\n\n\"The optimists. Oh, they were the ones who said, 'We're going to be\nout by Christmas.' And Christmas would come, and Christmas would go. Then\nthey'd say, 'We're going to be out by Easter.' And Easter would come, and\nEaster would go. And then Thanksgiving, and then it would be Christmas\nagain. And they died of a broken heart.\"\n\nAfter another long pause, he turned to me and said, \"This is a very\nimportant lesson. You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in\nthe end - which you can never afford to lose - with the need for discipline\nto confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they\nmight be.\"\n\nMy conversation with Stockdale had a profound influence on me, but I\nnever really considered it a business lesson until my research team began\nto wrestle with the question of why some companies rise from difficulty to\nbecome great while others emerge from those exact same difficulties\nweakened and dispirited. We found that companies that became great\nembraced a corporate version of the Stockdale Paradox.\n\nFannie Mae, for example found itself in the 1982 recession losing $1M\nevery business day, with $56B in loans under water. Many analysts thought\nFannie Mae, which was getting 9% on its mortgage portfolio but paying 15%\non the debt it issued, was doomed.\n\nBut CEO David Maxwell and his team never wavered in their aim to not\nmerely survive, but also to prevail as a great company. Yes, they\nconfronted the brutal fact that the interest-rate problem was not going to\nmagically disappear (certainly not by Christmas). But they used this grim\nfact as a catalyst for creating an entirely new business model based on\nasking three central questions of greatness:\n\n\n What can we potentially do better than any other company in the\n world?\n \n\n What can best drive our economic engine?\n \n\n What best ignites the passions of our people?\n \n\n Instead of reacting to the recession with mindless restructuring,\nFannie Mae rebuilt itself based on its answers to these questions.\nEventually, it generated investor returns nearly eight times those of the\ngeneral stock market.\n\nWhen asked how he dealt with the nay Sayers and the analysts who wrote\nFannie Mae off, Maxwell said that it was never an issue inside the company.\n\"Of course, we had to stop doing a lot of stupid things, but we never\nentertained the possibility that we would fail. We were going to use the\ncalamity as an opportunity to remake Fannie Maw into a great company.\"\n\nThe sad truth is that most executive teams won't respond that way to\nthese dark days of uncertainty. Instead of using this recession as an\nopportunity to fundamentally rethink their business and rebuild a culture\nof discipline, the will simply restructure, lay off a bunch of people and\nliquidate their cultural equity. Mediocre leaders will hold out false\nhopes for a quick fix, only to watch those hopes be swept away by events.\nTheir companies will begin to die of a broken heart.\n\nIt need not be this way. Those who lead with the Stockdale Paradox -\nthose who retain the unwavering faith that they will find a way to prevail\nin the end, but who also retain the discipline to confront the most brutal\nfacts of reality - will find this an ideal time to rebuild and reinforce\ngreatness.\n\n Used correctly, this recession can be a defining time in your firm's\nhistory that , in retrospect, you would not trade. Used wrongly, this\nrecession will weaken your foundations and make it that much harder to\nbecome great. The choice is yours.\n\n Jim Collins, the author of Good to Great, operates a\nmanagement-research laboratory in Boulder, Colo.\n\nRegards,\n\nSteve\n\nSteve Alexander\nVice President, North American Artemis Consulting\nArtemis International Solutions Corporation\nOffice: +1 281.338.9616\nMobile: +1 281.830.7430\nwww.artemisintl.com\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "12176", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/173252", "text": "\n\n\n\nDate: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 08:50:00 -0700 (PDT)\nFrom: steven.kean@enron.com\nTo: kelly.kimberly@enron.com\nSubject: Re: India And The WTO Services Negotiation\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\nX-From: Steven J Kean\nX-To: Kelly Kimberly\nX-cc: \nX-bcc: \nX-Folder: \\Steven_Kean_Dec2000_1\\Notes Folders\\All documents\nX-Origin: KEAN-S\nX-FileName: skean.nsf\n\n\nfyi\n---------------------- Forwarded by Steven J Kean/HOU/EES on 09/08/99 03:49 \nPM ---------------------------\n\n\nJoe Hillings@ENRON\n09/08/99 02:52 PM\nTo: Joe Hillings/Corp/Enron@Enron\ncc: Sanjay Bhatnagar/ENRON_DEVELOPMENT@ENRON_DEVELOPMENT, Terence H \nThorn/ENRON_DEVELOPMENT@ENRON_DEVELOPMENT, Ashok \nMehta/ENRON_DEVELOPMENT@ENRON_DEVELOPMENT, John \nAmbler/ENRON_DEVELOPMENT@ENRON_DEVELOPMENT, Steven J Kean/HOU/EES@EES, \nJeffrey Sherrick/Corp/Enron@Enron \nSubject: Re: India And The WTO Services Negotiation \n\nSanjay: Some information of possible interest to you. I attended a meeting \nthis afternoon of the Coalition of Service Industries, one of the lead groups \npromoting a wide range of services including energy services in the upcoming \nWTO GATTS 2000 negotiations. CSI President Bob Vastine was in Delhi last week \nand met with CII to discuss the upcoming WTO. CII apparently has a committee \nlooking into the WTO. Bob says that he told them that energy services was \namong the CSI recommendations and he recalls that CII said that they too have \nan interest.\n\nSince returning from the meeting I spoke with Kiran Pastricha and told her \nthe above. She actually arranged the meeting in Delhi. She asked that I send \nher the packet of materials we distributed last week in Brussels and London. \nOne of her associates is leaving for India tomorrow and will take one of \nthese items to Delhi. \n\nJoe\n\n\nJoe Hillings\n09/08/99 11:57 AM\nTo: Sanjay Bhatnagar/ENRON_DEVELOPMENT@ENRON_DEVELOPMENT\ncc: Terence H Thorn/ENRON_DEVELOPMENT@ENRON_DEVELOPMENT, Ashok \nMehta/ENRON_DEVELOPMENT@ENRON_DEVELOPMENT, John \nAmbler/ENRON_DEVELOPMENT@ENRON_DEVELOPMENT, Steven J Kean/HOU/EES@EES, \nJeffrey Sherrick/Corp/Enron@Enron (bcc: Joe Hillings/Corp/Enron)\nSubject: India And The WTO Services Negotiation\n\nSanjay: First some information and then a request for your advice and \ninvolvment.\n\nA group of US companies and associations formed the US WTO Energy Services \nCoalition in late May and has asked the US Government to include \"energy \nservices\" on their proposed agenda when the first meeting of the WTO GATTS \n2000 ministerial convenes late this year in Seattle. Ken Lay will be among \nthe CEO speakers. These negotiations are expected to last three years and \ncover a range of subjects including agriculture, textiles, e-commerce, \ninvestment, etc.\n\nThis morning I visited with Sudaker Rao at the Indian Embassy to tell him \nabout our coalition and to seek his advice on possible interest of the GOI. \nAfter all, India is a leader in data processing matters and has other \ncompanies including ONGC that must be interested in exporting energy \nservices. In fact probably Enron and other US companies may be engaging them \nin India and possibly abroad.\n\nSudaker told me that the GOI has gone through various phases of opposing the \nservices round to saying only agriculture to now who knows what. He agrees \nwith the strategy of our US WTO Energy Services Coalition to work with \ncompanies and associations in asking them to contact their government to ask \nthat energy services be on their list of agenda items. It would seem to me \nthat India has such an interest. Sudaker and I agree that you are a key \nperson to advise us and possibly to suggest to CII or others that they make \nsuch a pitch to the GOI Minister of Commerce.\n\nI will ask Lora to send you the packet of materials Chris Long and I \ndistributed in Brussels and London last week. I gave these materials to \nSudaker today.\n\nEveryone tells us that we need some developing countries with an interest in \nthis issue. They may not know what we are doing and that they are likely to \nhave an opportunity if energy services are ultimately negotiated.\n\nPlease review and advise us how we should proceed. We do need to get \nsomething done in October.\nJoe\n\nPS Terry Thorn is moderating a panel on energy services at the upcoming World \nServices Congress in Atlanta. The Congress will cover many services issues. I \nhave noted in their materials that Mr. Alliwalia is among the speakers but \nnot on energy services. They expect people from all over the world to \nparticipate.\n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "173252", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/173906", "text": "\n\n\n\nDate: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 02:27:00 -0700 (PDT)\nFrom: steven.kean@enron.com\nTo: michael.terraso@enron.com, karen.denne@enron.com\nSubject: Corporate Watch article\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\nX-From: Steven J Kean\nX-To: Michael Terraso, Karen Denne\nX-cc: \nX-bcc: \nX-Folder: \\Steven_Kean_Dec2000_1\\Notes Folders\\All documents\nX-Origin: KEAN-S\nX-FileName: skean.nsf\n\n\n---------------------- Forwarded by Steven J Kean/HOU/EES on 08/01/2000 09:24 \nAM ---------------------------\n\nSherri Sera@ENRON\n08/01/2000 09:15 AM\n\n\nTo: Steven J Kean/HOU/EES@EES, Mark Palmer/Corp/Enron@ENRON\ncc: \nSubject: Corporate Watch article\n\nSteve, Mark -\n\nHere's the link to the entire message in the event you're interested...you'll \ngo through several links to get all the information that was posted. In \naddition to the Corporate Watch article, there is an Environmental Defense \nScorecard on Enron's Methanol Plant in Deer Park, TX, and the old Amnesty \nInternational article on human rights issues in India...\n\nhttp://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?id=1100058000814000&sort=postdate\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "173906", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/174124", "text": "\n\n\n\nDate: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 01:00:00 -0700 (PDT)\nFrom: steven.kean@enron.com\nTo: james.steffew@enron.com\nSubject: \nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\nX-From: Steven J Kean\nX-To: james steffew\nX-cc: \nX-bcc: \nX-Folder: \\Steven_Kean_Dec2000_1\\Notes Folders\\All documents\nX-Origin: KEAN-S\nX-FileName: skean.nsf\n\n\n---------------------- Forwarded by Steven J Kean/NA/Enron on 08/21/2000 \n08:00 AM ---------------------------\nFrom: Mark E Haedicke@ECT on 08/15/2000 01:37 PM\nTo: Steven J Kean/NA/Enron@Enron\ncc: \n\nSubject: \n\nPer our conversation on coordination of our efforts on California and other \njurisdictions, we have developed the following training program:\n\n1. Anti-trust -- we have completed anti-trust training in Houston for \ntraders and have scheduled it in Portland and Calgary.\n\n2. Sales Practices -- this training has been completed in Portland and is \nbeing scheduled in Houston and Calgary.\n\n3. Anti-manipulation -- this training has been completed in Portland, but \nneeds to be expanded to cover local law manipulation issues. It also needs \nto be scheduled in Houston and Calgary. \n\nAlso, the above training needs to be supplemented with training on local \npower pool rules. There is a similar program being prepared in London. A \nmeeting is being scheduled so we can discuss these matters further.\n\nMark Haedicke\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "174124", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/175448", "text": "\n\n\n\nDate: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 13:00:00 -0700 (PDT)\nFrom: steven.kean@enron.com\nTo: maureen.mcvicker@enron.com\nSubject: <> - March 2001 AMEX\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\nX-From: Steven J Kean\nX-To: Maureen McVicker\nX-cc: \nX-bcc: \nX-Folder: \\Steven_Kean_June2001_1\\Notes Folders\\All documents\nX-Origin: KEAN-S\nX-FileName: skean.nsf\n\n\n---------------------- Forwarded by Steven J Kean/NA/Enron on 04/15/2001 \n07:59 PM ---------------------------\n\n\neserver@enron.com on 04/09/2001 02:41:04 PM\n To: \"Steven.J.Kean@enron.com\" \ncc: \n\n Subject: <> - March 2001 AMEX\n\nThe following expense report is ready for approval:\n\nEmployee Name: Mark A. Palmer\nStatus last changed by: Automated Administrator\nExpense Report Name: March 2001 AMEX\nReport Total: $6,539.82\nAmount Due Employee: $6,539.82\n\n\nTo approve this expense report, click on the following link for Concur \nExpense.\nhttp://xms.enron.com\n\n\n---------------------- Forwarded by Steven J Kean/NA/Enron on 04/15/2001 \n07:59 PM ---------------------------\n\n\neserver@enron.com on 04/10/2001 01:45:03 PM\n To: \"Steven.J.Kean@enron.com\" \ncc: \n\n Subject: <> - General Expenses\n\nThe following expense report is ready for approval:\n\nEmployee Name: John Hardy Jr Jr.\nStatus last changed by: Automated Administrator\nExpense Report Name: General Expenses\nReport Total: $2,240.10\nAmount Due Employee: $2,240.10\n\n\nTo approve this expense report, click on the following link for Concur \nExpense.\nhttp://xms.enron.com\n\n\n---------------------- Forwarded by Steven J Kean/NA/Enron on 04/15/2001 \n07:59 PM ---------------------------\n\n\neserver@enron.com on 04/13/2001 02:35:43 PM\n To: \"Steven.J.Kean@enron.com\" \ncc: \n\n Subject: <> - JS3/31/01\n\nThe following expense report is ready for approval:\n\nEmployee Name: James Steffes \nStatus last changed by: Automated Administrator\nExpense Report Name: JS3/31/01\nReport Total: $2,796.30\nAmount Due Employee: $2,796.30\n\n\nTo approve this expense report, click on the following link for Concur \nExpense.\nhttp://xms.enron.com\n\n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "175448", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/175814", "text": "\n\n\n\nDate: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 04:27:00 -0800 (PST)\nFrom: steven.kean@enron.com\nSubject: California Power Markets\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\nX-From: Steven J Kean\nX-To: \nX-cc: \nX-bcc: \nX-Folder: \\Steven_Kean_June2001_1\\Notes Folders\\All documents\nX-Origin: KEAN-S\nX-FileName: skean.nsf\n\n\n----- Forwarded by Steven J Kean/NA/Enron on 03/02/2001 12:27 PM -----\n\n\tSuzanne_Nimocks@mckinsey.com\n\tSent by: Carol_Benter@mckinsey.com\n\t03/02/2001 12:04 PM\n\n\t\t To: skean@enron.com\n\t\t cc: \n\t\t Subject: California Power Markets\n\n\nSorry that we haven't talked in some time. I thought that you would want\nto take a look at some analysis we have recently completed with regard to\nthe California Power Crisis. You may find some of the analysis to be\nhelpful. Let me know if you have any questions.\n\n(See attached file: 10209 zxd414.ppt)\n\n+-------------------------------------------------------------+\n| This message may contain confidential and/or privileged |\n| information. If you are not the addressee or authorized to |\n| receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, |\n| disclose or take any action based on this message or any |\n| information herein. If you have received this message in |\n| error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail |\n| and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation. |\n+-------------------------------------------------------------+\n - 10209 zxd414.ppt\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "175814", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/175816", "text": "\n\n\n\nDate: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 03:46:00 -0800 (PST)\nFrom: steven.kean@enron.com\nTo: maureen.mcvicker@enron.com\nSubject: ABX1 70 Further Nail in Generator's Coffin -- Absurdity in CA\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\nX-From: Steven J Kean\nX-To: Maureen McVicker\nX-cc: \nX-bcc: \nX-Folder: \\Steven_Kean_June2001_1\\Notes Folders\\All documents\nX-Origin: KEAN-S\nX-FileName: skean.nsf\n\n\ntest\n----- Forwarded by Steven J Kean/NA/Enron on 03/02/2001 11:51 AM -----\n\n\tSusan J Mara\n\t03/02/2001 10:44 AM\n\n\t\t To: Mark Palmer/Corp/Enron@ENRON, Karen Denne/Corp/Enron@ENRON, Jeff \nDasovich/NA/Enron@Enron, Sandra McCubbin/NA/Enron@Enron, Christopher F \nCalger/PDX/ECT@ECT, David Parquet/SF/ECT@ECT, Laird Dyer/SF/ECT@ECT, Tim \nBelden/HOU/ECT@ECT, Richard Shapiro/NA/Enron@Enron, Steven J \nKean/NA/Enron@Enron, James D Steffes/NA/Enron@Enron\n\t\t cc: \n\t\t Subject: ABX1 70 Further Nail in Generator's Coffin -- Absurdity in CA\n\nI just heard about this bill by La Seur\n\nABX1 70 attempts to criminalize acts of unregulated generators if they \nperform maintenance at times other than the California Public Utilities \nCommission requires. Further, the commission is required to allow scheduled \nmaintenance of only one generator at a time. \nSo, with 500 generators in the state, just how many years would it take to \ncomplete one round of maintenance? Also, please note it does not apply to \nmunis.\n\n\nSue Mara\nEnron Corp.\nTel: (415) 782-7802\nFax:(415) 782-7854\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "175816", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/175841", "text": "\n\n\n\nDate: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 06:49:00 -0800 (PST)\nFrom: steven.kean@enron.com\nTo: bernadette.hawkins@enron.com\nSubject: Ken Lay's email to Sen. Brulte\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=ANSI_X3.4-1968\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable\nX-From: Steven J Kean\nX-To: Bernadette Hawkins\nX-cc: \nX-bcc: \nX-Folder: \\Steven_Kean_June2001_1\\Notes Folders\\All documents\nX-Origin: KEAN-S\nX-FileName: skean.nsf\n\n\n----- Forwarded by Steven J Kean/NA/Enron on 02/28/2001 02:48 PM -----\n\nJeff Dasovich\nSent by: Jeff Dasovich\n02/16/2001 08:49 AM\n\nTo: Sandra McCubbin/NA/Enron@Enron, Susan J Mara/NA/Enron@ENRON,\nMDay@GMSSR.com, Hedy Govenar @ ENRON, Scott Govenar\n, Paul Kaufman/PDX/ECT@ECT, James D\nSteffes/NA/Enron@Enron, Harry Kingerski/NA/Enron@Enron, Richard\nShapiro/NA/Enron@Enron, skean@enron.com, mpalmer@enron.com, Karen\nDenne/Corp/Enron@ENRON, BTC \ncc:\nSubject: Ken Lay's email to Sen. Brulte\n\n\n\n\n\n\nGreetings All:\n\nFirst, I am apologizing in advance for any typos in this email. Schedule i\ns\nvery tight, but I wanted to make sure that everyone had it first thing this\nmorning, with some back-up info that I've included below.\n\nAttached is the email that was sent to Ken Lay's office yesterday evening f\nor\ndelivery to Sen. Brulte. It's of course confidential. Few points:\n\nI don't have Bev's email, so if you could please forward to her, that would\nbe appreciated.\nAs we discussed (Jim, Mike, Bev, Scott, Hedy) on our lengthy call on\nWednesday, I'm assuming that the plan is still to \"wallpaper\" Sacramento wi\nth\nour proposed legislation.\nThis email does not contain the legislation. Mike sent the \"final\" version\ns\nof our legislation out yesterday, except for the siting piece, which I\nbelieve Brian Cragg of Mike's office is finalizing today.\nYou'll note that we promise Senator Brulte in the email that we'll deliver \nto\nhis office today the proposed legislation. Again, based on our call on\nWednesday, I'm assuming that we would simultaneously release the proposed\nlegislation to the rest of the world at the same time.\nWhen we spoke on Wednesday, we decided that the Sacramento team would\ndetermine to whom we would circulate the proposed legislation at the same\ntime that we deliver the Senator Brulte. I'm assuming that you folks will\nhandle that end of things. Please let us know at your convenience to whom\nyou've decided to circulate.\nThis email does, however, include a \"summary\" of our proposed legislation. \nBut I'm not certain that the summary included in this email is the\nappropriate language to distribute \"to the world,\" or if we'll need instead\nto tailor some new language. I think we all agreed that we need a \"one\npager\" to accompany the legislative package so that we can communicate the\npackage effectively.\nWe also discussed the need to quickly develop a coalition to support our\nproposals. We didn't finalize that plan. Perhaps the Sacramento team coul\nd\npropose a plan to do that. Perhaps we could start with our friends in the\nDirect Access coalition?\nWe also talked about the need at this point to engage in PR and to get the \nPR\nmachinery activated, also with the goal of effectively communicating our\nlegislative package/message. We're in a meeting with folks today where we\ncan discuss getting that side of things going and Karen Denne has contacted\nMarathon and they're pondering some things that we can do in the near term.\nYou'll note that there's a considerable amount of information about the DWR\ncredit issue. As I recollect, we discussed the issue in depth on the call.\n \nYou note that attached to the email is a \"legislative fix\" to AB1X that cou\nld\nsolve the credit issue and an attached set of \"taking points\" related to a\nsecond alternative to solving the credit issue: a PUC order clarifying tha\nt\nDWR will get its money for power purchase costs.\nNote also that Steve Kean reminded me that we've got to continue to push to\nget the utilities out of the merchant function. Accordingly, I've put a\nbrief paragraph on that issue in the note to Brulte in the last section\n(legislative solution) under the topic \"create a real competitive retail\nmarket in California.\" To the best of my knowledge, we don't have\nlegislative language on that piece yet, and it seems that we'll need to\ndiscuss it in considerably more depth before doing so.\n\n\nIf you have any questions about any of the materials in the email, please\ndon't hesitate to contact me or Jim or Sandi to discuss. I can be best\nreached to day by pager at 888.916.7184. \n\nThanks to all for helping pull this together.\n\nBest,\nJeff\n\n----- Forwarded by Jeff Dasovich/NA/Enron on 02/16/2001 08:27 AM -----\n\nJeff Dasovich\nSent by: Jeff Dasovich\n02/15/2001 06:11 PM\n\n To: jdasovic@enron.com, skean@enron.com, Richard Shapiro/NA/Enron@En\nron,\nJames D Steffes/NA/Enron@Enron\n cc:\n Subject:\n\nSteve:\nHere's a substantially more cleaned-version, with attachments. There's a\nhard copy on your chair.\n\nBest,\nJeff\n----- Forwarded by Jeff Dasovich/NA/Enron on 02/15/2001 05:57 PM -----\n\nJeff Dasovich\nSent by: Jeff Dasovich\n02/15/2001 05:56 PM\n\n To: jdasovic@enron.com\n cc:\n Subject:\n\nJim:\nIt was a pleasure speaking with you yesterday. Based on our conversation,\nthis email includes the following:\n\nAn Enron contact to discuss developing small-scale generation on Tribal lan\nds.\n\nOur views on the impediments to distributed generation and suggestions on h\now\nto remove those impediments.\n\nA description of the credit issues that continue to impede DWR,s ability\n to\nsign contracts with power suppliers, and options to resolve them. Two\npossible options for addressing the credit issue are 1) a California PUC\norder clarifying that DWR will recover its power purchase costs through\nrates, and 2) an amendment to AB1X designed to accomplish the same goal. I\nhave attached talking points regarding the California PUC order and propose\nd\namendments to AB1X. We believe that an amendment to AB1X is the preferable\noption.\n\nOur assessment of the supply/demand picture in California.\n\nOur suggestions for a legislative package designed to solve both the near-\nand long-term electricity crisis in California. We will deliver to your\noffice tomorrow detailed legislative language. In those materials we will\nalso identify existing bills that we believe can easily accommodate our\nproposed language.\n\nI hope that the information is useful. Please do not hesitate to contact m\ne\nif you would like to discuss these materials further, or if there is anythi\nng\nelse that I can do to assist you.\n\nRegards,\nKen\n\n\n\nContact Information to Discuss Interest Expressed by Native American Tribes\nin Installing Small-scale Generation on Tribal Lands\n\nDavid Parquet, Vice-President\nEnron North America\n101 California Street, Suite 1950\nSan Francisco, CA 94111\nPhone: 415.782.7820\nFax: 415.782.7851\n\n\n2. Key Barriers to Distributed Generation\n\nExcessive and Unnecessary Utility Stand-by Charges\n\nSolution: The executive orders issued by the Governor on February 14th took\n a\nstep in the right direction. Utility stand-by charges have always been\ndesigned by the utilities to protect their monopoly position, extract\nmonopoly prices from customers, or both. But there is no reason to limit t\nhe\nelimination of these charges to generation facilities that are less than\n1MW. These limits will only lengthen unnecessarily the time it takes for\nCalifornia to close the significant gap between supply and demand and reduc\ne\nthe risk of black outs this summer. We would propose lifting the cap by\noffering amendments to SB27X, which is designed to facilitate development o\nf\ndistributed generation.\n\nExcessive delays and costs related to interconnecting facilities with\ninvestor-owned and municipal utilities\n\nSolution: The Governor,s executive order regarding interconnection is \na\nstep in the right direction*D-D-26-01 requires utilities to complete\ninterconnection studies within 7 days. California should ensure that this\nrequirement applies to all generation facilities, including distributed\ngeneration. In addition, the financial conflicts the utilities face when\ninterconnecting generation facilities are simply too powerful to overcome\nthrough executive orders or other regulations. To the greatest extent\npossible, California should shift control over interconnection away from th\ne\nutility and place that control with the California ISO. This could be\naccomplished through amendments to SB 27X.\n\nPermitting and Air Quality Issues\nDevelopers of distributed (i.e., \"on-site\") generation that is 50 MWs\n or\ngreater must receive certification from the California Energy Commission an\nd\ntherefore face all of the impediments to development that large-scale\ngeneration faces. \n\nSolution: California should ensure that the executive orders (D-22-01 thru\nD-26-01) issued by the Governor to expedite plant siting and maximize plant\noutput apply equally to smaller scale, \"distributed generation\" facil\nities.\nIn addition, distributed generation that is less than 50 MWs continues to\nface local opposition. The State should ensure that local, parochial\ninterests cannot block otherwise beneficial distributed generation projects\n. \nThese objectives could be accomplished through amendments to SB27X.\n\n3. Credit Concerns Regarding Authority Granted to DWR in AB1X to Purchase\nElectricity on Behalf of the Utilities\n\nEnron responded to the RFP issued by DWR to enter into power contracts with\nsuppliers.\nEnron is in active discussions with DWR to establish contract terms with th\ne\ngoal of entering into a power purchase agreement as soon as possible.\nHowever, ambiguities contained in AB1X have created significant credit risk\nconcerns that need to be resolved in order to finalize contract terms.\nWe understand that the lion,s share of counterparties share Enron,s c\nredit\nrisk concerns.\nEnron has proposed several options for resolving the credit risk issues and\nis working with DWR to arrive at a solution that is mutually agreeable to\nboth sides and that might serve as a template for power purchase agreements\ngoing forward.\n\nSummary of the Source of the Credit Risk Issue\n\nAmbiguous Ratemaking Authority\nThe language in AB1X is ambiguous as to whether DWR has any authority to\ncharge California ratepayers for the costs of purchasing power. From our\nanalysis of the bill, the language in AB1X appears to leave intact the\nCalifornia PUC,s exclusive jurisdiction over ratemaking in California. \nAs\nsuch, suppliers have no assurance that the PUC will agree to include in rat\nes\nadequate charges to cover DWR,s costs of power purchases.\n\nAmbiguous Regulatory Authority Regarding Contract \"Prudence\"\nThe language in AB1X leaves open the possibility that the California Public\nUtilities Commission could determine that power purchases made by DWR are\n\"imprudent.\" On the basis of such a finding, the CPUC could then ref\nuse to\nallow DWR to collect from ratepayers the costs associated with its power\npurchases. Consequently, suppliers have no assurance that the PUC will agr\nee\nto include in rates the charges to cover the costs of power contracts that\nDWR has entered into with suppliers.\n\nAmbiguous Language Regarding the Ratemaking Mechanism that Will Be Used to\nRecover DWR,s Costs of Power Purchases\nIn addition to the ambiguity regarding ratemaking and regulatory authority\nnoted above, the language in the bill is equally ambiguous with respect to\nthe specific ratemaking \"mechanics\" that AB1X directs the PUC to empl\noy to\npermit DWR to recover its power purchase costs. Based on our analysis, it i\ns\nextremely difficult to determine how the PUC would design the rates to ensu\nre\nDWR recovers its power purchase costs. Moreover, as currently drafted, it \nis\ndifficult to determine whether AB1X would even permit the PUC to include in\nrates all of the charges necessary to fully recover DWR,s power purchase\ncosts. Again, this ambiguity raises significant credit risk concerns since\nsuppliers have little assurance that DWR will have the ability to recover\nfrom ratepayers the costs of purchasing power.\n\nOptions to Resolve Concerns Regarding Credit Risk\n\nWe have been working diligently with DWR officials to resolve the credit ri\nsk\nissues. We have identified three options:\n\nAmend AB1X\nThe amendments, which are attached to this email, would clarify that a) the\nPUC would accept as \"prudent and reasonable\" all purchase costs incur\nred by\nDWR, and b) the PUC is obligated to include in rates the charges necessary \nto\nensure that DWR fully recovers its costs of power purchases. This is the\npreferred option, though we understand that the there may be some political\nchallenges standing in the way of amending AB1X. (See attached file\nentitled, \"AmendAB1X.doc\".)\n\nClarify the Ambiguities in AB1X through an Order Issued by the PUC, and\nthrough Contract Language\nThis is the option that we are currently working with DWR officials to\nimplement. However, it is more complicated and could take significantly mo\nre\ntime to implement than the \"legislative\" fix. We have attached electronic\ncopies of the talking points related to the order that the California PUC\nwould need to issue under this option. (See attached file entitled,\n\"cpuctalkingpoints.doc.\")\n\nMake Use of Other Instruments Designed to Address Credit Risk\nAs indicated in our letter responding to DWR's RFP, we are willing to ac\ncept\nother forms of credit from DWR. Those options include a letter of credit,\ncash prepayment, or an acceptable form of collateral. DWR officials have\nindicated to us that DWR prefers to pursue the second options. That is, DWR\nprefers to clarify the ambiguities in AB1X through a PUC order and through\ncontract amendments.\n\n4. California's Supply-demand Picture Heading into Summer 2001\n\nBoth the California Energy Commission and Cambridge Energy Research\nAssociates (CERA), a private sector energy think tank, have issued reports\nshowing that California faces a severe supply-demand imbalance. They diffe\nr\nonly on how much and how soon additional supply will be made available. Al\nl\ncredible sources agree that supply will be very tight throughout the Summer\nof 2001 and that unless a solution is found immediately, blackouts are\nlikely. \n\nCEC and CERA both forecast that California will be short of supply this\nsummer by approximately 5,000 MW. These numbers are in line with our\nestimates. California's supply base currently has a 6% capacity margin,\n well\nbelow the average 15-20%, which is recommended for reliable system operatio\nn\nin the West. Since the West relies more heavily upon hydroelectric power\nthan other regions, reserves are particularly important, owing to the\nunpredictability of the weather and the dry year the West has experienced t\no\ndate. In the event of a low rain and snow period, the system must possess t\nhe\nflexibility to respond to the reduced availability of power supply. \nCalifornia's very low reserve margin makes it especially susceptible to \nthis\nrequirement. \n\nOther reasons for reduced supply for the Summer of 2001 include the early\ndraw-down of reservoirs in the continual effort to manage California's seve\nre\nsupply-demand gap; emissions restrictions on existing plants; and a reduced\nnumber of customers who can be curtailed under their contracts with the\nutilities. Cambridge Energy Research Associates asserts that at the curren\nt\npace of siting, permitting and construction, adequate supplies will not be\nadded to correct the market imbalance until 2003 at the earliest.\n\nCERA predicts that California is likely to face approximately 20 hours of\nrolling black outs this summer. The CEC paints a considerably more\noptimistic scenario, betting that California will bring an additional 5,000\nMWs on line to meet peaking summer demand. It is our view that California\nshould view the CEC's \"rosy scenario\" with considerable skepticism.\n\n5. Suggested Package of Legislative Proposals Designed to Solve California\n's\nElectricity Crisis\n\nThis email offers an overview of our proposed legislative solution. We wil\nl\ndeliver to your office tomorrow specific legislative language and existing\nbills that we believe can accommodate our proposals.\n\nAs we have suggested throughout the crisis, any solution to California's\ncrisis must focus on four issues:\n\nIncrease supply\nDecrease demand\nEstablish a truly competitive retail electricity market\nReturn California's Investor-owned utilities to solvency\n\nIncrease supply--Legislative vehicle: SB28X (Sher)\nTo site and construct a power plant in Texas takes approximately 2 years. \nEnron and others have completed the entire process in other states in less\nthan a year. In California, it takes about six years, or longer.\n\nThe Governor's executive orders and Senator Sher's siting reform legi\nslation\nare steps in the right direction. Our suggested amendments can improve tho\nse\nefforts by further addressing the difficulties that project developers face\nin securing air emission reduction credits to meet the air permit\nrequirements included in the CEC's certification requirements. Enron's\nproposal seeks to streamline the process for 1) obtaining credits and 2)\ntransfering credits between air districts. In addition, it creates an\ninnovative emissions reduction bank to allow project sponsors to fund\nemissions in advance of obtaining certification, and permits the affected a\nir\ndistricts to use those funds to finance projects that will produce the\nrequired reductions in pollution emissions.\n\nDecrease demand*Legislative Vehicle: AB31X (Wright)\nBecause of the delay in getting a solution in place in California, closing\nthe supply-demand gap through energy conservation and efficiency offers the\nbest chance of avoiding blackouts this summer. This can be accomplished mo\nst\neffectively and quickly in two ways:\n\nBuy-down demand\nCalifornia is tapping into an enormous amount of money from the General Fun\nd\nto finance DWR's power purchases. California could likely reduce demand\n more\neconomically by running an auction to determine the payments businesses wou\nld\nbe willing to receive to reduce their demand for a sustained period (e.g.,\nthrough the summer months). DWR could easily run an on-line auction to\ndetermine the price it could pay for these demand reductions. To\nparticipate, businesses would be required to have the metering equipment\nnecessary to monitor and verify that they are actually achieving the\nreductions. Enron has developed an on-line auction software package, \"D\neal\nBench,\" that it would be willing to contribute to the effort.\n\nUse Price Signals to Incent Voluntary Curtailment\nTo be successful, customers need access to the following key elements:\n\nAn internet based hour-ahead price posting system to track the market price\nfor hour-ahead power in real time.\nReal-time metering systems for baseline demand and voluntarily curtailment\nverification.\nSettlement process that allows for market clearing prices of energy to be\npaid for load reduction (\"Negawatts\").\n\nThe potential benefits of an effective demand response program would includ\ne:\n\n\"creation\" of additional summer peaking capacity in California, parti\ncularly\nin the short term, without requiring construction of additional generation\nresources.\nreduction of peak or super-peak load on the over-stressed California\nelectric system, thus potentially reducing the overall cost of electricity \nin\nthe state.\nfostering of demand elasticity without subjecting customers to the full ris\nk\nof hourly market price volatility by passing market price signals to\ncustomers and allowing them to voluntarily shed load and be compensated for\nresponding.\n\nWe estimate that we could generate a summer 2001 on-peak demand response in\nexcess of 400 MW during certain high cost hours, and a demand response for\nsummer 2002 on-peak hours that could exceed 1000 MW. We further estimate\nthat the market response to this program from all ESPs could be 2 to 3 time\ns\nthat amount. We recommend that the State of California provide rebates\ndirectly to customers to fund the installation of advanced metering and\ncontrol systems that would support load curtailment implementation.\n\nEstablish a truly competitive retail electricity market*Legislative vehi\ncle:\nSB27X\nThe only customers who were protected from price volatility in San Diego we\nre\ncustomers who chose Direct Access and signed fixed price deals with energy\nservice providers. Ironically, AB1X takes that important option away from\ncustomers and businesses. It is critical that AB1X be amended to remove th\ne\nprohibition against Direct Access.\n\nEnron's legislative proposal would give customers freedom to enter into a\ndirect access transaction, while simultaneously addressing the Department o\nf\nWater Resources' concerns about stranded power costs that might result from\ncustomer migration. \n\nIn addition, California will only achieve a competitive retail market when\nthe utility is removed completely from the procurement function. Procureme\nnt\nis not a utility core competency, as evidenced by the dire financial\ncondition in which the utilities now find themselves. California should\ntherefore begin immediately to phase the utility out of the procurement\nfunction entirely, with the goal of having all customers served by a\nnon-utility provider within 36 months. To execute the transition, California\nshould hold a series of competitive solicitations over the 36-month period \nin\nwhich competing service providers would bid for the right to serve segments\nof utility load.\n\nReturn California's Investor-owned utilities to solvency*Legislative \nvehicle:\nAB18X\nUtility bankruptcy will not increase supply and it will not decrease demand. \nIn short, bankruptcy does nothing to solve California's supply-demand\nimbalance. In addition, bankruptcy increases the likelihood that consumers\nand businesses will bear the significant financial risks of having California\nState government assume the role of \"electricity buyer\" for an extended\nperiod of time. Finally, bankruptcy will undermine both investor confidence\nin California's energy markets and the private sector's willingness to\nparticipate in that market.\n\nCalifornia can return the utilities to financial solvency by implementing a\nseries of staged rate increases. California should design those rate\nincreases with the dual goal of returning the utilities to solvency without\n\"shocking\" the economy or household budgets For example, California could\namortize the recovery of the utilities, past debt over a 5-10 year period. \nIn addition, the magnitude of the rate increase can be reduced in two ways:\nFirst, the utilities could absorb some portion of their existing debt in\nrecognition of the risk they accepted when they agreed to the structure of \nAB\n1890. Second, California can \"net\" the revenues the utilities have r\neceived\nfrom selling electricity into the Power Exchange against the debts they hav\ne\naccrued due to the retail price cap.\n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "175841", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/176581", "text": "\n\n\n\nDate: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 00:41:00 -0700 (PDT)\nFrom: steven.kean@enron.com\nTo: george.wasaff@enron.com\nSubject: Can you help me?\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\nX-From: Steven J Kean\nX-To: George Wasaff\nX-cc: \nX-bcc: \nX-Folder: \\Steven_Kean_Nov2001_1\\Notes Folders\\All documents\nX-Origin: KEAN-S\nX-FileName: skean.nsf\n\n\n---------------------- Forwarded by Steven J Kean/NA/Enron on 07/06/2001 \n07:40 AM ---------------------------\n\n\nsteve.knight@businesslayers.com on 06/25/2001 12:57:25 PM\nTo: Steven J Kean/NA/Enron@Enron\ncc: \n\nSubject: Can you help me?\n\nI am looking for some help in identifying the right person(s) at: Enron\nCorp., for an introduction of our software solution. Steven, if you could\ntake a moment and point me to the appropriate contact I would greatly\nappreciate it.\n\nSummary of eProvisioning:\n\neProvisioning radically improves people's Time-To-Productivity by\ntransforming the disparate activities that allocate IT resources to people\ninto a secure and automatic process. Once provisioned, these resources\nremain digitally connected to each person as they move through the business\ncycle and are dynamically updated as necessary. At the appropriate time,\nthey are systematically, securely and automatically removed. \n\nOrganizations that employ eProvisioning gain a competitive edge and access\ncomplete security by ensuring that people are kept productive from day one,\nand are prevented from becoming counterproductive beyond the day they leave.\nIn addition, by aligning their IT infrastructure with business priorities,\norganizations can effectively manage change across the extended enterprise,\nand better respond to emerging market requirements. \n\neProvision Day One provides business and IT executives with the ability to\nquickly identify bottlenecks and maintain accountability of the\neProvisioning process through comprehensive reporting and tracking\ncapabilities. As business relationships between organizations expand,\nBusiness Layers technology provides the framework for integration and\ninteroperability between eProvisioning partners - suppliers and service\nproviders, devices and applications - which are the digital foundations of\nthe Internet economy. \n\nPlease, if you could give me a few minutes of your valuable time or guide me\nto the right person to describe the significant benefits of what we offer.\"\n\nWeb Site: http://www.businesslayers.com\n\nDemo-Site: http://demo.businesslayers.com\nUser: blayers\nPass: blayers\n\nThank you for your time.\n\n\nSteve Knight\nSC Regional Sales Manager\nBusiness Layers, Inc.\n817-490-0170 \n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "176581", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/210343", "text": "\n\n\nMessage-ID: <5550308.1075857279636.JavaMail.evans@thyme>\nDate: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 04:43:00 -0700 (PDT)\nFrom: jwahl@cinergy.com\nTo: benjamin.rogers@enron.com\nSubject: Confidential Agreement\nCc: mcyrus@cinergy.com\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\nBcc: mcyrus@cinergy.com\n\n\nThis follows up on your voice mail message regarding the status of the\nConfidentiality Agreement in light of renewed discussions between the two\ncompanies. Attached is the latest draft of the Confidentiality Agreement\nwhich was transmitted to you on May 13. Please call me with any comments or\nquestions.\n\n <>\n\n - Confidential AGrement with Enron which was sent to Ben Rogers on 51200 - \nthis version is a clean version accepting all blacklined changes from \n59437v3.DOC\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "210343", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/211401", "text": "\n\n\nMessage-ID: <8296592.1075857154467.JavaMail.evans@thyme>\nDate: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 01:16:00 -0700 (PDT)\nFrom: benjamin.rogers@enron.com\nTo: jwahl@cinergy.com\nSubject: Re: Confidential Agreement\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\n\n\nJennifer:\nHere is the latest CA for Jerry to review. Please send him this e-mail \nasap. Thanks!\n\nBen Rogers\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "211401", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/211402", "text": "\n\n\nMessage-ID: <29555721.1075857154511.JavaMail.evans@thyme>\nDate: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 06:28:00 -0700 (PDT)\nFrom: benjamin.rogers@enron.com\nTo: stuart.zisman@enron.com\nSubject: Confidential Agreement\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\n\n\nHere is the latest copy. Once you may the changes I am going to run it by \nMark Metts and send it over to CINergy. I am trying to get this sogned \ntoday, so I can head down to Florida to meet up with Don and company. Thanks\n\nBen\n---------------------- Forwarded by Benjamin Rogers/HOU/ECT on 06/14/2000 \n01:27 PM ---------------------------\n\n \"Wahl, Jennifer\" on 06/06/2000 10:43:34 AM\n To: \"'Ben Rogers'\" \n cc: \"Cyrus, Michael\" \nSubject: Confidential Agreement\n\nThis follows up on your voice mail message regarding the status of the\nConfidentiality Agreement in light of renewed discussions between the two\ncompanies. Attached is the latest draft of the Confidentiality Agreement\nwhich was transmitted to you on May 13. Please call me with any comments or\nquestions.\n\n <>\n\n - Confidential AGrement with Enron which was sent to Ben Rogers on 51200 - \nthis version is a clean version accepting all blacklined changes from \n59437v3.DOC\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "211402", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/21257", "text": "\n\n\nMessage-ID: <17394516.1075863362388.JavaMail.evans@thyme>\nDate: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 09:53:03 -0700 (PDT)\nFrom: rick.buy@enron.com\nTo: donna.lowry@enron.com\nSubject: FW: Confidential Information and Securities Trading\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\n\n\ni think i did this properly. any way you can check? rick\n-----Original Message-----\nFrom: Office of the Chairman - Enron Wholesale Services [mailto:legalonline-compliance@enron.com]\nSent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 10:16 AM\nTo: BUY@mailman.enron.com; Buy, Rick\nSubject: Confidential Information and Securities Trading\n\nTo:BUY, RICHARD\nEmail:rick.buy@enron.com - 7138534739\n\nEnron Wholesale Services - Office of the Chairman\n\n \nFrom: Mark Frevert, Chairman & CEO\n \n Mark Haedicke, Managing Director & General Counsel\n\nSubject: Confidential Information and Securities Trading\n\nTo keep pace with the fluid and fast-changing demands of our equity trading activities, Enron Wholesale Services (\"EWS\") has recently revised its official Policies and Procedures Regarding Confidential Information and Securities Trading (\"Policies and Procedures\"). These revisions reflect two major developments: (1) our equity trading activities have been extended into the United Kingdom, and (2) in an effort to streamline the information flow process, the \"Review Team\" will play a more centralized role, so that the role of the \"Resource Group\" is no longer necessary.You are required to become familiar with, and to comply with, the Policies and Procedures. The newly revised Policies and Procedures are available for your review on LegalOnline, the new intranet website maintained by the Enron Wholesale Services Legal Department. Please click on the attached link to access LegalOnline:\n\n\n\nIf you have already certified compliance with the Policies and Procedures during the 2001 calendar year, you need not re-certify at this time, although you are still required to to review and become familiar with the revised Policies and Procedures. If you have not certified compliance with the Policies and Procedures during the 2001 calendar year, then you must do so within two weeks of your receipt of this message. The LegalOnline site will allow you to quickly and conveniently certify your compliance on-line with your SAP Personal ID number. If you have any questions concerning the Policies or Procedures, please call Bob Bruce at extension 5-7780 or Donna Lowry at extension 3-1939. \n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "21257", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/218920", "text": "\n\n\nMessage-ID: <6316972.1075852466973.JavaMail.evans@thyme>\nDate: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:33:21 -0700 (PDT)\nFrom: john.shelk@enron.com\nTo: d..steffes@enron.com, sarah.novosel@enron.com, charles.yeung@enron.com\nSubject: Deadline Today -- Draft Enron Comments on NERC Bill\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\n\n\nAttached are suggested comments on the draft NERC bill for which we were asked to provide comments by today. You will see that the response is a firm, but polite -- no thanks. While I doubt NERC assumes that silence means support by their deadline today, I would like to get something to them by COB if at all possible. (I will be on vacation tomorrow in any event). With apologies for the short turn around, please call or e-mail your comments or OK this afternoon.\n\nJohn\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "218920", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/219122", "text": "\n\n\nMessage-ID: <3024882.1075852475408.JavaMail.evans@thyme>\nDate: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 18:17:17 -0700 (PDT)\nFrom: cfr@vnf.com\nTo: linda.robertson@enron.com\nSubject: PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL - Christopher Stelzer Draft\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\n\n\nAttached is the draft testimony of Christopher Stelzer, on behalf of Avista Energy.\n\nIf possible, we would appreciate comments no later than 3:00 PM EST on Sunday, August 26. Comments can be faxed to my attention at 202/338-2416 or emailed to cfr@vnf.com or gdb@vnf.com (Gary Bachman).\n\nThank you.\n\nCheryl Feik Ryan\nVan Ness Feldman, P.C.\n1050 Thomas Jefferson Street NW\nWashington DC 20007\n202/298-1845\ncfr@vnf.com\n\nThis email message is intended solely for the individual or individuals named above. It may contain confidential attorney-client privileged information and/or attorney work product. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are requested not to read, copy or distribute it or any of the information it contains. Please delete it immediately and notify the sender by return email or by telephone. Thank you.\n\n - 107177_1.DOC \n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "219122", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/219123", "text": "\n\n\nMessage-ID: <4232569.1075852475436.JavaMail.evans@thyme>\nDate: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 16:35:13 -0700 (PDT)\nFrom: donk@prestongates.com\nSubject: PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL - Scott Jones Draft\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\n\n\nAttached is the draft testimony of Scott Jones.\n\nComments should be received no later than 3:00 PM EST on Sunday, August 26.\nAll comments and suggestions need to be in writing and can be faxed (not\nE-mailed) to Dan Watkiss at 202-857-2131. Also, if your suggestion is a\nproposed addition, please write out the exact language you would propose we\nincorporate into the testimony and where you would place the addition.\n\nDonald A. Kaplan, Esq.\nPreston Gates Ellis &\n Rouvelas Meeds LLP\nSuite 500\n1735 New York Avenue, N.W.\nWashington, D.C. 20006\nPh: (202) 662-8466\nFax: (202) 331-1024\ndonk@prestongates.com\n\n(See attached file: TFG SJones Draft 8-25-01.doc)(See attached file:\nExhibit STJ-6.xls)(See attached file: Exhibit STJ-3.xls)(See attached file:\nExhibit STJ-4.xls)(See attached file: Exhibit STJ-5.xls)(See attached file:\nExhibit STJ-2.doc)\n\nCONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:\nThis email message is intended solely for the individual or individuals\nnamed above. It may contain confidential attorney-client privileged\ninformation and/or attorney work product. If the reader of this message is\nnot the intended recipient, you are requested not to read, copy or\ndistribute it or any of the information it contains. Please delete it\nimmediately and notify the sender by return email or by telephone. Thank\nyou.\n\n <> <> <> <> <> <>\n\n - TFG SJones Draft 8-25-01.doc \n - Exhibit STJ-6.xls \n - Exhibit STJ-3.xls \n - Exhibit STJ-4.xls \n - Exhibit STJ-5.xls \n - Exhibit STJ-2.doc \n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "219123", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/219257", "text": "\n\n\nMessage-ID: <21565374.1075852477326.JavaMail.evans@thyme>\nDate: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:32:27 -0700 (PDT)\nFrom: alan.comnes@enron.com\nTo: e-mail , ray.alvarez@enron.com, robert.frank@enron.com, \n\ttim.belden@enron.com\nSubject: Refund Cases Timelines--Confidential Atty Client Work Product\nCc: d..steffes@enron.com\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\nBcc: d..steffes@enron.com\n\n\nTim,\n\nPer your request.\n\nEverybody else: please forward corrections/updates to me.\n\nThanks,\n\nAlan Comnes\n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "219257", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/221197", "text": "\n\n\nMessage-ID: <16267978.1075861634185.JavaMail.evans@thyme>\nDate: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 13:46:02 -0800 (PST)\nFrom: jacton@crai.com\nTo: d..steffes@enron.com\nSubject: Confidential for Dan Watkiss\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\n\n\nJim\n\nIf you are able to provide this to Dan for the meeting I would appreciate\nit.\n\nHe may not want to circulate it to the group. It is intended as a work\nproduct for attorney.\n\nThis e-mail and the attachments were prepared at the request of counsel.\n\n <>\n\nJan Paul Acton\nVice President\nCharles River Associates\n1201 F St., NW, Suite 700\nWashington, DC 20004-1204\nVoice: (202) 662 3902\nFax: (202) 662 3910\n\n****************************************************************************\n*****\nThis electronic message contains information from the consulting firm of\nCharles River Associates Inc., which may be confidential or privileged. The\ninformation is intended for the use of the individual or entity named above.\nIf you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure,\ncopying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is\nprohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error,\nplease notify us by telephone (617 425-3582) or by e-mail\n(postmaster@crai.com) immediately.\n****************************************************************************\n*****\n\n - NOTES FOR DISCUSSION.doc \n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "221197", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/230685", "text": "\n\n\nMessage-ID: <5100559.1075860488776.JavaMail.evans@thyme>\nDate: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 11:49:00 -0800 (PST)\nFrom: michelle.cash@enron.com\nTo: felecia.acevedo@enron.com\nSubject: Privileged and Confidential communication to my attorneys\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\n\n\nFelicia, Does this sound right to you? Just wanted to confirm. Thanks. \nMichelle\n\n---------------------- Forwarded by Michelle Cash/HOU/ECT on 11/01/2000 07:48 \nPM ---------------------------\n\nHThomas@gspcorp.com on 11/01/2000 07:19:00 PM\nTo: michelle.cash@enron.com, david.oxley@enron.com, \npeter.del.vecchio@enron.com\ncc: david.howe@enron.com, fran.mayes@enron.com \nSubject: Privileged and Confidential communication to my attorneys\n\n Michelle and Peter, we (GSP) have determined that we are not a federal\n government contractor. Based on feedback from GSP employees, we do\n sell newsprint to printers who print material for the federal\n government, but we are a 'second-tier' contractor, not a 'first-tier'\n contractor. (Pat McCarthy, the local employment law attorney that I\n have been using, used these terms when David Howe and i talked to him\n today.) Pat informed us that second-tier contractors do not have to\n abide by all the federal government requirements for contractors.\n\n Based on this, GSP does not plan to file EEO-1 reports or prepare\n affirmative action plans. In addition, we do not feel that we are\n subject to an OFCCP audit.\n\n Michelle, since you left me the voicemail telling me that we are not\n included in the Enron EEO-1, i assume that also means that Enron's\n status as a government contractor does not force us to prepare EEO-1\n and AAPs.\n\n Please advise us if you feel we have made incorrect assumptions on any\n of this.\n\n Hoyt\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "230685", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/234267", "text": "\n\n\nMessage-ID: <4232844.1075860516484.JavaMail.evans@thyme>\nDate: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 01:43:00 -0800 (PST)\nFrom: mary.hain@enron.com\nTo: richard.sanders@enron.com, christian.yoder@enron.com, ellen@tca-us.com\nSubject: confidential (client-attorney)\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\nX-From: Mary Hain\nX-To: Richard Sanders, Christian Yoder, ellen@tca-us.com\nX-cc: \nX-bcc: \nX-Folder: \\Richard_Sanders_Dec2000\\Notes Folders\\All documents\nX-Origin: Sanders-R\nX-FileName: rsander.nsf\n\n\n\n---------------------- Forwarded by Mary Hain/HOU/ECT on 02/01/2000 09:47 AM \n---------------------------\nFrom: Cooper Richey on 02/01/2000 09:18 AM\nTo: Mary Hain/HOU/ECT@ECT\ncc: \nSubject: confidential (client-attorney)\n\n\nrevised excel workbook is attached\n\n\n\n\nplease forward to Ellen B. \n\n\nEllen - I added the statistic you wanted and updated the older ones (you'll \nnotice\nslightly different prices/occurrences because I hadn't cut off the date at \nJan 1 2000 - i.e., the averages previously included the last month's worth of \ndata.)\n\n\n - c\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "234267", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/234783", "text": "\n\n\nMessage-ID: <9302156.1075858668365.JavaMail.evans@thyme>\nDate: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 08:17:28 -0700 (PDT)\nFrom: steven.kean@enron.com\nTo: jeff.dasovich@enron.com\nSubject: FINAL\nCc: susan.mara@enron.com, james.steffes@enron.com, karen.denne@enron.com, \n\tb..sanders@enron.com\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\nBcc: susan.mara@enron.com, james.steffes@enron.com, karen.denne@enron.com, \n\tb..sanders@enron.com\n\n\nAttached is the final letter. Please note - there was a small change at the top of page 2.\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "234783", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/23559", "text": "\n\n\nMessage-ID: <4890112.1075845067403.JavaMail.evans@thyme>\nDate: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 11:52:00 -0700 (PDT)\nFrom: beth.apollo@enron.com\nTo: shona.wilson@enron.com, jeffrey.gossett@enron.com, stacey.white@enron.com, \n\td.hall@enron.com, sheri.thomas@enron.com, brenda.herod@enron.com, \n\tjohn.j.boudreaux@us.arthurandersen.com, \n\tjohn.vickers@us.arthurandersen.com, kate.agnew@us.arthurandersen.com, \n\tjennifer.stevenson@us.arthurandersen.com\nSubject: Confidential Folder to safely pass information to Arthur Andersen\nCc: sally.beck@enron.com, tom.bauer@us.arthurandersen.com, \n\tgeorgeanne.hodges@enron.com, vanessa.schulte@enron.com, \n\tbob.hall@enron.com, leslie.reeves@enron.com, brent.price@enron.com\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\nBcc: sally.beck@enron.com, tom.bauer@us.arthurandersen.com, \n\tgeorgeanne.hodges@enron.com, vanessa.schulte@enron.com, \n\tbob.hall@enron.com, leslie.reeves@enron.com, brent.price@enron.com\n\n\nWe have become increasingly concerned about confidential information (dpr/position info, curves, validations/stress tests, etc) being passed to Arthur Andersen for audit purposes over the Web to their Arthur Andersen email addresses. (necessary now they no longer have access to Enron's internal email system) \n\nPlease use the folder described below when passing any info (that you would have concerns about if it was picked up by a third party) via the shared drive that has been set up for this specific purpose. \n\nNote: AA should also use the shared drive to pass info back if there are questions, or the data needs updating. We should also consider the sensitivity of audit findings and special presentations if they are being distributed electronically.\n\nPlease pass this note to others in your groups who have the need to pass info back and forth.\n\n \nDetails on how to access for those who will use this method to pass info:\n\nA secured folder has been set up on the \"o\" drive under Corporate called Arthur_Andersen (O:\\Corporate\\Arthur_Anderson). Please post all confidential files in this folder rather than emailing the files to their company email address. If you need access to this folder, submit an eRequest through the IT Central site: http://itcentral.enron.com/Data/Services/SecurityRequests/. Arthur Andersen will be able to retrieve these files for review with their terminal server access at the Three Allen Center location.\n\nPlease contact Vanessa Schulte if you have any problems or questions\n\nBeth Apollo\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "23559", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/49059", "text": "\n\n\nMessage-ID: <22659969.1075858453952.JavaMail.evans@thyme>\nDate: Thu, 31 May 2001 19:11:52 -0700 (PDT)\nFrom: pannesley@riskwaters.com\nTo: j.kaminski@enron.com\nSubject: RE: Risk 2001 Australia\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\n\n\nThanks Vince - I'll give him a try.\n\n-----Original Message-----\nFrom: Vince.J.Kaminski@enron.com [mailto:Vince.J.Kaminski@enron.com]\nSent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 10:03 PM\nTo: pannesley@riskwaters.com\nSubject: RE: Risk 2001 Australia\n\nPhilip,\n\nPlease, try Frank Wolak from Stanford University.\n\nHe is the best expert on California right now.\n\nVince\n\n -----Original Message-----\n From: \"philip annesley\" @ENRON\n\n[mailto:IMCEANOTES-+22philip+20annesley+22+20+3Cpannesley+40riskwaters+2Ecom\n+3E+40ENRON@ENRON.com]\n\n Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 7:50 PM\n To: Kaminski, Vince J\n Subject: RE: Risk 2001 Australia\n\n Vince\n\n Thanks for coming back to me on this anyway. Would you be able to\n suggest\n anyone else - either in Australia, Europe or US who would be good to get\n to\n discuss the California crisis?\n\n kind regards.\n\n Philip\n\n -----Original Message-----\n From: Vince.J.Kaminski@enron.com [mailto:Vince.J.Kaminski@enron.com]\n Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 12:00 AM\n To: pannesley@riskwaters.com\n Cc: Vkaminski@aol.com\n Subject: RE: Risk 2001 Australia\n\n Philip,\n\n I have to decline the invitation with regrets.\n I have too many commitments right now.\n\n Vince Kaminski\n\n -----Original Message-----\n From: \"philip annesley\" @ENRON\n\n[mailto:IMCEANOTES-+22philip+20annesley+22+20+3Cpannesley+40riskwaters+2Ecom\n +3E+40ENRON@ENRON.com]\n\n Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 3:27 AM\n To: vkamins@enron.com\n Subject: Risk 2001 Australia\n\n Dear Vince\n\n Just a quick message to follow up on the email that I sent you\n recently\n inviting you to speak at our forthcoming congress, Risk 2001\n Australia,\n which is taking place in Sydney on 20 & 21 August 2001. Have you had\n an\n opportunity to consider the invitation yet? We are aiming to have the\n programme printed next week, so I would really need to know as soon\n as\n possible if you would be available to speak at this year's congress.\n\n I am working from our Hong Kong office for this week only (Tel: +852\n 2545\n 2710), and I can be contacted by phone there or by email.\n\n Kind regards.\n\n Philip\n\n Philip Annesley\n Conference Producer\n Risk Waters Group\n\n +44 20 7484 9866\n +44 20 7484 9800\n\n www.risk-conferences.com/risk2001aus\n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "49059", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/50307", "text": "\n\n\nMessage-ID: <25447472.1075856582182.JavaMail.evans@thyme>\nDate: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 09:16:00 -0700 (PDT)\nFrom: steven.leppard@enron.com\nTo: dale.surbey@enron.com\nSubject: Security question\nCc: grant.masson@enron.com, vince.kaminski@enron.com\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\nBcc: grant.masson@enron.com, vince.kaminski@enron.com\n\n\nDear guys\n\nHaving been out of the office for a couple of days, I've found myself the \nvictim of theft (again). This time my desk drawer key has been stolen from \nits \"hiding place\" under my telephone. I *always* lock my drawers and keep \nthe key in the same place, but on arriving in the office today I found the \ndrawers unlocked, and the key missing. Although there's nothing sensitive on \nor around my desk, I'm concerned about the security implications of someone \nsniffing around the office in this manner. I also found the papers on my \ndesk extensively reshuffled last week.\n\nLast year, in our old office, I had my only two real options books stolen \nfrom among the many and varied books on my desk. That couldn't have been a \nrandom theft, and I fear this isn't either. I can't understand who'd be so \ninterested in a Research guy's belongings!\n\nCan we ask security to check their surveillance footage for any suspicious \nactivity around my desk?\n\nCheers,\nSteve\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "50307", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/52201", "text": "\n\n\nMessage-ID: <7553175.1075863444700.JavaMail.evans@thyme>\nDate: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 21:01:37 -0700 (PDT)\nFrom: wolak@zia.stanford.edu\nTo: j.kaminski@enron.com\nSubject: \nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\n\n\nVince,\n\n I agree with you that it's a lesson people need to learn\nover and over again. I can't tell you how many politicians\nI met over the past year who really don't like markets and\ncertainly don't understand how or why they work. These\naren't just the minor leaguers in Sacramento, but the big\nleague players in Washington.\n\n I also agree that the academic community can play \"an important\nrole in shaping public opinion and in explaining the logic of\nderegulation process.\" I'd like to think that is in large\npart what I have been trying to do.\n\nFrank\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "52201", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/52555", "text": "\n\n\nMessage-ID: <30170440.1075856614663.JavaMail.evans@thyme>\nDate: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 03:03:00 -0800 (PST)\nFrom: vkaminski@aol.com\nTo: vkamins@enron.com\nSubject: Fwd: Successful purchase of NBER Paper\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\n\n\nReturn-Path: \nReceived: from rly-xd03.mx.aol.com (rly-xd03.mail.aol.com [172.20.105.168]) \nby air-xd05.mail.aol.com (v77.14) with ESMTP; Sun, 10 Dec 2000 10:57:06 -0500\nReceived: from zeus.ssrn.com (zeus.ssrn.com [38.202.236.235]) by \nrly-xd03.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Sun, 10 Dec 2000 10:56:51 -0500\nReceived: from ssrn.com ([38.202.236.235]) by zeus.ssrn.com \n(Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61092U100L2S100V35) with \nSMTP id com; Sun, 10 Dec 2000 10:56:50 -0500\nSubject: Successful purchase of NBER Paper\nDate: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 10:56:49 -0500\nFrom: Gregory_Gordon@ssrn.com (Gregory_Gordon)\nTo: \nCC:\nMessage-ID: <20001210155650048.AAA365@zeus.ssrn.com@ssrn.com>\n\nDear Wincenty Kaminski:\n\nThank you for your purchase at Social Science Research Network. Your\ncredit card has been charged $ 5.00. This charge will appear on your\nstatement as Social Science Electronic Publishing, our parent company.\nThe confirmation number for this transaction is NBER_103397 and a\nsummary of your order is below.\n\nIf you have any questions about this charge please email\nMailto:NBERSupport@ssrn.com for assistance.\n\nIf you have any comments or suggestions about how SSRN can improve this\nservice, please let me know at Mailto:Gregory_Gordon@ssrn.com.\n\nThank you,\n \nGregory Gordon\n \nPresident\n\nORDER INFORMATION\n================================\nDiagnosing Market Power in California's Restructured Wholesale\nElectricity Market\nNBER Collection\nBorenstein / Bushnell / Wolak\n\nBILLING INFORMATION\n================================\nWincenty Kaminski\n1400 Smith\nHouston, TX 77002\nUSA\n713 853 3848\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "52555", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/52713", "text": "\n\n\nMessage-ID: <5428433.1075857060219.JavaMail.evans@thyme>\nDate: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 00:02:00 -0800 (PST)\nFrom: richard.shapiro@enron.com\nTo: vince.kaminski@enron.com\nSubject: Re: Congratulations\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\n\n\nThanks.\n\nVince J Kaminski@ECT\n01/11/2000 08:01 AM\nTo: Richard Shapiro/HOU/EES@EES\ncc: \nSubject: Congratulations\n\nRick,\n\nI have just looked at the memo regarding promotions.\nCongratulations - well deserved.\n\nVince\n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "52713", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/52998", "text": "\n\n\nMessage-ID: <29291085.1075856621619.JavaMail.evans@thyme>\nDate: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 05:32:00 -0800 (PST)\nFrom: shirley.crenshaw@enron.com\nTo: jmyan@stanford.edu\nSubject: Re: Telephone Interview with The Enron Corp. Research Group\nCc: lance.cunningham@enron.com, alex.huang@enron.com, vince.kaminski@enron.com, \n\tvasant.shanbhogue@enron.com\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=ANSI_X3.4-1968\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable\nBcc: lance.cunningham@enron.com, alex.huang@enron.com, vince.kaminski@enron.com, \n\tvasant.shanbhogue@enron.com\n\n\nMarshall:\n\nThanks for responding so quickly. I have scheduled the following intervie=\nw:\n\nWednesday, December 6 - 1:00 PM Houston time. It will last approximately\n1 hour. We will call you at (605) 497-4045 unless otherwise instructed.\n\nIf you have any questions, please feel free to contact me at 713/853-5290.\n\nBest regards,\n\nShirley Crenshaw\n\n\"Jingming 'Marshall' Yan\" on 11/28/2000 12:59:55 PM\nTo: Shirley.Crenshaw@enron.com\ncc: Vince.J.Kaminski@enron.com=20\nSubject: Re: Telephone Interview with The Enron Corp. Research Group\n\nMs. Crenshaw,\n\n Thank you very much for the message. I am very interested in the\nopportunity to talk to personnel from the Research Group at Enron. Between\nthe two days you suggest, I prefer Wednesday 12/6. Considering the\ntwo-hour time difference between California and Texas, 11:00 am Pacific\ntime (1:00 pm your time) seems to be a good slot. However, I am open most\nof the day on 12/6 so if some other time slot is prefered on your end,\nplease let me know.\n\n Thanks again. I look forward to talking to you and your\ncolleagues.\n\nJingming\n\nOn Tue, 28 Nov 2000 Shirley.Crenshaw@enron.com wrote:\n\n> Good afternoon Jingming:\n>\n> Professor Wolak forwarded your resume to the Research Group, and\n> they would like to conduct a telephone interview with you, sometime next\n> week, at your convenience. The best days would be Tuesday, 12/5 or\n> Wednesday, 12/6.\n>\n> Please let me know which day and what time would be best for you and\n> they will call you. Let me know the telephone number that you wish to be\n> contacted at.\n>\n> The interviewers would be:\n>\n> Vince Kaminski Managing Director and Head of Research\n> Vasant Shanbhogue Vice President, Research\n> Lance Cunningham Manager, Research\n> Alex Huang Manager, Research\n>\n> Look forward to hearing from you.\n>\n> Best regards,\n>\n> Shirley Crenshaw\n> Administrative Coordinator\n> Enron Research Group.\n> 713-853-5290\n>\n>\n>\n\n---------------------------------------------------------\nJingming \"Marshall\" Yan jmyan@leland.stanford.edu\nDepartment of Economics (650)497-4045 (H)\nStanford University (650)725-8914 (O)\nStanford, CA 94305 358C, Economics Bldg\n----------------------------------------------------------\nIf one seeks to act virtuously and attain it, then what is\nthere to repine about? -- Confucius\n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "52998", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/52999", "text": "\n\n\nMessage-ID: <18205244.1075856621671.JavaMail.evans@thyme>\nDate: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 02:59:00 -0800 (PST)\nFrom: jmyan@stanford.edu\nTo: shirley.crenshaw@enron.com\nSubject: Re: Telephone Interview with The Enron Corp. Research Group\nCc: vince.j.kaminski@enron.com\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=ANSI_X3.4-1968\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable\nBcc: vince.j.kaminski@enron.com\n\n\nMs. Crenshaw,\n\n Thank you very much for the message. I am very interested in the\nopportunity to talk to personnel from the Research Group at Enron. Between\nthe two days you suggest, I prefer Wednesday 12/6. Considering the\ntwo-hour time difference between California and Texas, 11:00 am Pacific\ntime (1:00 pm your time) seems to be a good slot. However, I am open most\nof the day on 12/6 so if some other time slot is prefered on your end,\nplease let me know.\n\n Thanks again. I look forward to talking to you and your\ncolleagues.\n\nJingming\n\nOn Tue, 28 Nov 2000 Shirley.Crenshaw@enron.com wrote:\n\n> Good afternoon Jingming:\n>\n> Professor Wolak forwarded your resume to the Research Group, and\n> they would like to conduct a telephone interview with you, sometime next\n> week, at your convenience. The best days would be Tuesday, 12/5 or\n> Wednesday, 12/6.\n>\n> Please let me know which day and what time would be best for you and\n> they will call you. Let me know the telephone number that you wish to be\n> contacted at.\n>\n> The interviewers would be:\n>\n> Vince Kaminski Managing Director and Head of Research\n> Vasant Shanbhogue Vice President, Research\n> Lance Cunningham Manager, Research\n> Alex Huang Manager, Research\n>\n> Look forward to hearing from you.\n>\n> Best regards,\n>\n> Shirley Crenshaw\n> Administrative Coordinator\n> Enron Research Group.\n> 713-853-5290\n>\n>\n>\n\n---------------------------------------------------------\nJingming \"Marshall\" Yan jmyan@leland.stanford.edu\nDepartment of Economics (650)497-4045 (H)\nStanford University (650)725-8914 (O)\nStanford, CA 94305 358C, Economics Bldg\n----------------------------------------------------------\nIf one seeks to act virtuously and attain it, then what is\nthere to repine about? -- Confucius\n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "52999", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/53536", "text": "\n\n\nMessage-ID: <3454095.1075840788231.JavaMail.evans@thyme>\nDate: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 12:07:33 -0800 (PST)\nFrom: j.kaminski@enron.com\nTo: wbalson@crai.com\nSubject: RE: I've joined Charles River Associates\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\n\n\nBill,\n\n\nYes, one of the options I am looking at.\n\nVince\n\n -----Original Message-----\nFrom: \t\"Balson, William\" @ENRON \nSent:\tTuesday, January 29, 2002 1:53 PM\nTo:\tKaminski, Vince J\nSubject:\tRE: I've joined Charles River Associates\n\n Have you considered joining a consultancy?\n\n-----Original Message-----\nFrom: Vince.J.Kaminski@enron.com\nTo: wbalson@crai.com\nSent: 1/29/02 11:43 AM\nSubject: RE: I've joined Charles River Associates\n\nBill,\n\nLacima is relatively small, but they have two very competent\nand experienced principals: Chris Strickland and Les Clewlow.\n\nI am looking right now at a number of options. Hopefully, I shall make a\ndecision\nwithin a few weeks.\n\nVince\n\n -----Original Message-----\n From: \"Balson, William\" @ENRON\n Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 1:30 PM\n To: Kaminski, Vince J\n Subject: RE: I've joined Charles River Associates\n\n Have you developed plans? I'd be interested in your evaluation of\n Lakima\n Group, whom I believe you've worked with. How big are they?\n\n -----Original Message-----\n From: Vince.J.Kaminski@enron.com\n To: wbalson@crai.com\n Sent: 1/29/02 11:12 AM\n Subject: RE: I've joined Charles River Associates\n\n Bill,\n\n Delayed congratulations.\n\n Vince\n\n -----Original Message-----\n From: \"Balson, William\" @ENRON\n Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 5:14 PM\n To: 'vkamins@enron.com'\n Subject: I've joined Charles River Associates\n\n Hi Vince -\n Its very sad to see what has happened. I hope you are doing OK\nunder\n the\n circumstances. I wanted also to let you know that I'm\ntransitioning\n to\n an\n advisory role at Opt4 since they are now in a more operational\nmode,\n rather\n than developmental. I've joined Charles River Associates in the\nPalo\n Alto\n office. What are your plans for the future? I would like to\nextend\n an\n invitation to get to know us better, and perhaps to collaborate if\n our\n interests coincide. When do you get back from vacation?\n\n Bill Balson\n Vice President\n Charles River Associates\n 285 Hamilton Avenue\n Palo Alto, CA 94301\n Direct: 650-847-2227 Cell: 650-823-2510 FAX: 650-325-2488\n wbalson@crai.com\n\n**********************************************************************\n This e-mail is the property of Enron Corp. and/or its relevant\naffiliate\n and may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use\nof\n the intended recipient (s). Any review, use, distribution or\ndisclosure\n by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended\nrecipient\n (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the\nsender\n or reply to Enron Corp. at enron.messaging.administration@enron.com\nand\n delete all copies of the message. This e-mail (and any attachments\n hereto) are not intended to be an offer (or an acceptance) and do not\n create or evidence a binding and enforceable contract between Enron\n Corp. (or any of its affiliates) and the intended recipient or any\nother\n party, and may not be relied on by anyone as the basis of a contract\nby\n estoppel or otherwise. Thank you.\n\n**********************************************************************\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "53536", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/53555", "text": "\n\n\nMessage-ID: <18298171.1075840788676.JavaMail.evans@thyme>\nDate: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 10:22:03 -0800 (PST)\nFrom: j.kaminski@enron.com\nTo: vkaminski@aol.com\nSubject: FW: Issues with Exotica Library\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\n\n\n \n-----Original Message-----\nFrom: Rajan, Karthik \nSent: Monday, January 28, 2002 6:39 PM\nTo: Kaminski, Vince J; Yang, Sean; Stock, Steve\nSubject: RE: Issues with Exotica Library\n\nVince/Sean,\nI will talk to you Zimin/ Tom tonight at their home number and get the passwords as well as the security feature. \n I will drop by your (Sean) desk first thing tomorrow.\nSorry for the delay.\n \nKarthik.\n\n-----Original Message----- \nFrom: Kaminski, Vince J \nSent: Mon 1/28/2002 11:27 AM \nTo: Yang, Sean; Rajan, Karthik; Stock, Steve \nCc: \nSubject: Re: Issues with Exotica Library\n\nKarthik, \nIf you cannot find the answer, please call Zimin. I shall call him at home tonight as well. \nVince\n \n--------------------------vince kaminski \n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "53555", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/54261", "text": "\n\n\nMessage-ID: <7428438.1075858478927.JavaMail.evans@thyme>\nDate: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 06:39:38 -0700 (PDT)\nFrom: kaminski@enron.com\nTo: pannesley@riskwaters.com\nSubject: RE: Risk 2001 Australia\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\n\n\nPhilip,\n\nFrank's E-mail:\n\nwolak@zia.stanford.edu\n\nVince\n\n -----Original Message-----\nFrom: \t\"philip annesley\" @ENRON [mailto:IMCEANOTES-+22philip+20annesley+22+20+3Cpannesley+40riskwaters+2Ecom+3E+40ENRON@ENRON.com] \nSent:\tThursday, May 31, 2001 9:12 PM\nTo:\tKaminski, Vince J\nSubject:\tRE: Risk 2001 Australia\n\nThanks Vince - I'll give him a try.\n\n-----Original Message-----\nFrom: Vince.J.Kaminski@enron.com [mailto:Vince.J.Kaminski@enron.com]\nSent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 10:03 PM\nTo: pannesley@riskwaters.com\nSubject: RE: Risk 2001 Australia\n\nPhilip,\n\nPlease, try Frank Wolak from Stanford University.\n\nHe is the best expert on California right now.\n\nVince\n\n -----Original Message-----\n From: \"philip annesley\" @ENRON\n\n[mailto:IMCEANOTES-+22philip+20annesley+22+20+3Cpannesley+40riskwaters+2Ecom\n+3E+40ENRON@ENRON.com]\n\n Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 7:50 PM\n To: Kaminski, Vince J\n Subject: RE: Risk 2001 Australia\n\n Vince\n\n Thanks for coming back to me on this anyway. Would you be able to\n suggest\n anyone else - either in Australia, Europe or US who would be good to get\n to\n discuss the California crisis?\n\n kind regards.\n\n Philip\n\n -----Original Message-----\n From: Vince.J.Kaminski@enron.com [mailto:Vince.J.Kaminski@enron.com]\n Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 12:00 AM\n To: pannesley@riskwaters.com\n Cc: Vkaminski@aol.com\n Subject: RE: Risk 2001 Australia\n\n Philip,\n\n I have to decline the invitation with regrets.\n I have too many commitments right now.\n\n Vince Kaminski\n\n -----Original Message-----\n From: \"philip annesley\" @ENRON\n\n[mailto:IMCEANOTES-+22philip+20annesley+22+20+3Cpannesley+40riskwaters+2Ecom\n +3E+40ENRON@ENRON.com]\n\n Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 3:27 AM\n To: vkamins@enron.com\n Subject: Risk 2001 Australia\n\n Dear Vince\n\n Just a quick message to follow up on the email that I sent you\n recently\n inviting you to speak at our forthcoming congress, Risk 2001\n Australia,\n which is taking place in Sydney on 20 & 21 August 2001. Have you had\n an\n opportunity to consider the invitation yet? We are aiming to have the\n programme printed next week, so I would really need to know as soon\n as\n possible if you would be available to speak at this year's congress.\n\n I am working from our Hong Kong office for this week only (Tel: +852\n 2545\n 2710), and I can be contacted by phone there or by email.\n\n Kind regards.\n\n Philip\n\n Philip Annesley\n Conference Producer\n Risk Waters Group\n\n +44 20 7484 9866\n +44 20 7484 9800\n\n www.risk-conferences.com/risk2001aus\n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "54261", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/54262", "text": "\n\n\nMessage-ID: <27274423.1075858478951.JavaMail.evans@thyme>\nDate: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 06:39:15 -0700 (PDT)\nFrom: kaminski@enron.com\nTo: wolak@zia.stanford.edu\nSubject: FW: Risk 2001 Australia\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\n\n\nFrank,\n\nFYI\n\nVince\n\n -----Original Message-----\nFrom: \t\"philip annesley\" @ENRON [mailto:IMCEANOTES-+22philip+20annesley+22+20+3Cpannesley+40riskwaters+2Ecom+3E+40ENRON@ENRON.com] \nSent:\tThursday, May 31, 2001 9:12 PM\nTo:\tKaminski, Vince J\nSubject:\tRE: Risk 2001 Australia\n\nThanks Vince - I'll give him a try.\n\n-----Original Message-----\nFrom: Vince.J.Kaminski@enron.com [mailto:Vince.J.Kaminski@enron.com]\nSent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 10:03 PM\nTo: pannesley@riskwaters.com\nSubject: RE: Risk 2001 Australia\n\nPhilip,\n\nPlease, try Frank Wolak from Stanford University.\n\nHe is the best expert on California right now.\n\nVince\n\n -----Original Message-----\n From: \"philip annesley\" @ENRON\n\n[mailto:IMCEANOTES-+22philip+20annesley+22+20+3Cpannesley+40riskwaters+2Ecom\n+3E+40ENRON@ENRON.com]\n\n Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 7:50 PM\n To: Kaminski, Vince J\n Subject: RE: Risk 2001 Australia\n\n Vince\n\n Thanks for coming back to me on this anyway. Would you be able to\n suggest\n anyone else - either in Australia, Europe or US who would be good to get\n to\n discuss the California crisis?\n\n kind regards.\n\n Philip\n\n -----Original Message-----\n From: Vince.J.Kaminski@enron.com [mailto:Vince.J.Kaminski@enron.com]\n Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 12:00 AM\n To: pannesley@riskwaters.com\n Cc: Vkaminski@aol.com\n Subject: RE: Risk 2001 Australia\n\n Philip,\n\n I have to decline the invitation with regrets.\n I have too many commitments right now.\n\n Vince Kaminski\n\n -----Original Message-----\n From: \"philip annesley\" @ENRON\n\n[mailto:IMCEANOTES-+22philip+20annesley+22+20+3Cpannesley+40riskwaters+2Ecom\n +3E+40ENRON@ENRON.com]\n\n Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 3:27 AM\n To: vkamins@enron.com\n Subject: Risk 2001 Australia\n\n Dear Vince\n\n Just a quick message to follow up on the email that I sent you\n recently\n inviting you to speak at our forthcoming congress, Risk 2001\n Australia,\n which is taking place in Sydney on 20 & 21 August 2001. Have you had\n an\n opportunity to consider the invitation yet? We are aiming to have the\n programme printed next week, so I would really need to know as soon\n as\n possible if you would be available to speak at this year's congress.\n\n I am working from our Hong Kong office for this week only (Tel: +852\n 2545\n 2710), and I can be contacted by phone there or by email.\n\n Kind regards.\n\n Philip\n\n Philip Annesley\n Conference Producer\n Risk Waters Group\n\n +44 20 7484 9866\n +44 20 7484 9800\n\n www.risk-conferences.com/risk2001aus\n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "54262", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/54263", "text": "\n\n\nMessage-ID: <14136486.1075858478980.JavaMail.evans@thyme>\nDate: Thu, 31 May 2001 07:03:21 -0700 (PDT)\nFrom: kaminski@enron.com\nTo: pannesley@riskwaters.com\nSubject: RE: Risk 2001 Australia\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\n\n\nPhilip,\n\nPlease, try Frank Wolak from Stanford University.\n\nHe is the best expert on California right now.\n\nVince\n\n -----Original Message-----\nFrom: \t\"philip annesley\" @ENRON [mailto:IMCEANOTES-+22philip+20annesley+22+20+3Cpannesley+40riskwaters+2Ecom+3E+40ENRON@ENRON.com] \nSent:\tWednesday, May 30, 2001 7:50 PM\nTo:\tKaminski, Vince J\nSubject:\tRE: Risk 2001 Australia\n\nVince\n\nThanks for coming back to me on this anyway. Would you be able to suggest\nanyone else - either in Australia, Europe or US who would be good to get to\ndiscuss the California crisis?\n\nkind regards.\n\nPhilip\n\n-----Original Message-----\nFrom: Vince.J.Kaminski@enron.com [mailto:Vince.J.Kaminski@enron.com]\nSent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 12:00 AM\nTo: pannesley@riskwaters.com\nCc: Vkaminski@aol.com\nSubject: RE: Risk 2001 Australia\n\nPhilip,\n\nI have to decline the invitation with regrets.\nI have too many commitments right now.\n\nVince Kaminski\n\n -----Original Message-----\n From: \"philip annesley\" @ENRON\n\n[mailto:IMCEANOTES-+22philip+20annesley+22+20+3Cpannesley+40riskwaters+2Ecom\n+3E+40ENRON@ENRON.com]\n\n Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 3:27 AM\n To: vkamins@enron.com\n Subject: Risk 2001 Australia\n\n Dear Vince\n\n Just a quick message to follow up on the email that I sent you recently\n inviting you to speak at our forthcoming congress, Risk 2001 Australia,\n which is taking place in Sydney on 20 & 21 August 2001. Have you had an\n opportunity to consider the invitation yet? We are aiming to have the\n programme printed next week, so I would really need to know as soon as\n possible if you would be available to speak at this year's congress.\n\n I am working from our Hong Kong office for this week only (Tel: +852\n 2545\n 2710), and I can be contacted by phone there or by email.\n\n Kind regards.\n\n Philip\n\n Philip Annesley\n Conference Producer\n Risk Waters Group\n\n +44 20 7484 9866\n +44 20 7484 9800\n\n www.risk-conferences.com/risk2001aus\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "54263", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/54536", "text": "\n\n\nMessage-ID: <25473912.1075863420369.JavaMail.evans@thyme>\nDate: Tue, 15 May 2001 06:07:31 -0700 (PDT)\nFrom: j.kaminski@enron.com\nTo: wade.cline@enron.com\nSubject: RE: Help for Krishnarao Pinnamaneni\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\n\n\nWade, \n\nThanks for your help. Krishna advised me of the conversation he had with you.\n\nVince\n\n -----Original Message-----\nFrom: \tCline, Wade \nSent:\tMonday, May 14, 2001 1:37 AM\nTo:\tVince.Kaminski@enron.com\nSubject:\tRe: Help for Krishnarao Pinnamaneni\n\n---------------------- Forwarded by Wade Cline/ENRON_DEVELOPMENT on 05/14/2001 12:04 PM ---------------------------\n\nDelivery Failure Report\nYour document:\tRe: Help for Krishnarao Pinnamaneni\t\nwas not delivered to:\tVince J. Kaminski/ENRON@enronXgate\t\nbecause:\tInvalid/unknown recipient [MAPI Reason Code: 1, MAPI Diagnostic Code 1]\t\n\nWhat should you do?\nYou can resend the undeliverable document to the recipients listed above by choosing the Resend button or the Resend command on the Actions menu. \nOnce you have resent the document you may delete this Delivery Failure Report.\nIf resending the document is not successful you will receive a new failure report\nUnless you receive other Delivery Failure Reports, the document was successfully delivered to all other recipients.\n\nNAHOU-MSCNX02-LME-NOTES/NA/ENRON, NAHOU-LNINT01/Enron, ENE-NS03/Enron, EI-NHUB01/ENRON_DEVELOPMENT, EI-NMUMBAI01/ENRON_DEVELOPMENT\n\n________________________\n\nTo:\tVince J. Kaminski/ENRON@enronXgate\ncc:\tPinnamaneni Krishnarao/ENRON@enronXgate\nFrom:\tWade Cline/ENRON_DEVELOPMENT@ENRON_DEVELOPMENT\nDate:\t05/14/2001 12:49:39 AM CDT\nSubject:\tRe: Help for Krishnarao Pinnamaneni\n\nVince, I will certainly try. I am not optimistic primarily because this is handled out of Chennai, as it must since the parents are residents of Andhra Pradesh. Our earlier requests for visas from Chennai have been a very mixed bag, with us being turned down more often than not. The fact of the matter is that the visa officers in the respective consulates have incredible amounts of discretion and ability to say no. Once they say no, it is very difficult to reverse.\n\nBut I will go through our good contacts at the US Consulate in Mumbai, as this has had more success than us speaking directly to Chennai. \n\nWade\n\nFrom:\tVince J. Kaminski/ENRON@enronXgate on 05/11/2001 10:37 AM CDT\nTo:\tWade Cline/ENRON_DEVELOPMENT@ENRON_DEVELOPMENT\ncc:\tVince J. Kaminski/ENRON@enronXgate, Pinnamaneni Krishnarao/ENRON@enronXgate \n\nSubject:\tHelp for Krishnarao Pinnamaneni\n\nWade,\n\nI am writing to ask you to help my associate, Krishnarao Pinnamaneni, who\nfaces a very difficult personal situation. You probably remember Krishna\nfrom his visits to our Bombay office when he was helping you on a few projects.\n\nA brief outline of the facts.\n\n1. His wife is pregnant. She gave birth to their daughter, Pallavi, a few years\nago after a very complicated pregnancy. Pallavi was a premature child and her survival\nwas a miracle (we all thank the Almighty for this wonderful child). Current pregnancy\nis also very complicated.\n\n2. Krishna invited his in-laws to visit and stay with them to care for his wife. The application for a \ntourist visa was denied and the reason given for the denial was that they had overstayed the\nterm of the visa during the previous visit. The irony is that they complied with\nthe US laws: they had asked for an extension of the visa and the extension was granted.\n\nThe company can, of course, intervene on Krishna's behalf. Krishna made an \noutstanding contribution to Enron (he is currently a VP) and to the American \nsociety. I am sure that Ken Lay would have no objections to write a letter on his \nbehalf to the State Department.\n\nI would prefer, however, to try informal channels first to avoid confrontational\napproach. It may be better for all the involved in the long-run.\n\nI hope you can use your personal contacts to intervene on Krishna's\nbehalf and ask for a reversal of the decision on humanitarian grounds. \nI shall fax to you a copy of the decision.\n\nThanks.\n\nVince\n\n << File: Krishna's Letter.DOC >> \n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "54536", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/54537", "text": "\n\n\nMessage-ID: <24575622.1075863420436.JavaMail.evans@thyme>\nDate: Tue, 15 May 2001 06:09:33 -0700 (PDT)\nFrom: j.kaminski@enron.com\nTo: steve.leppard@enron.com\nSubject: RE: Final Research PRC\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\n\n\nSteve,\n\nIt will be my pleasure.\n\nVince\n\n -----Original Message-----\nFrom: \tLeppard, Steve \nSent:\tTuesday, May 15, 2001 4:10 AM\nTo:\tHerbelot, Olivier; Lewis, Richard; Clarke, Niamh; Kaminski, Vince J\nSubject:\tFinal Research PRC\n\nHi all\n\nThe current PRC is the last on which I'll be assessed as a Research guy, so I'd like to ask if you'd be prepared to act as reviewers for me?\n\nThanks,\n\nSteve\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "54537", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/8885", "text": "\n\n\nMessage-ID: <12911969.1075840163875.JavaMail.evans@thyme>\nDate: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 21:32:00 -0700 (PDT)\nFrom: jeff.skilling@enron.com\nTo: kevinscott@onlinemailbox.net\nSubject: Re: Information for Jeff Skilling from Kevin Scott\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\n\n\nConfirming 1:00 p.m. meeting on June 12 at the Venetian Resort in Las Vegas.\n\nThanks,\n \nJoannie Williamson\n \n713-345-7774\n\n\"Kevin Scott\" on 04/25/2001 04:46:18 PM\nPlease respond to \nTo:\t\"Jeff Skilling\" \ncc:\t\"Sherri Sera\" \n\nSubject:\tInformation for Jeff Skilling from Kevin Scott\n\nApril 25, 2001\n\n \nDear Jeff,\n\nThank you for setting aside time to meet with me.\nI have attached my resume to help bring you up to date on my career.\n\nAs you will see, I have been providing advisory services since 1995.\nDuring these years, I have done some of my best work.\nI am proud of the service that I have rendered as an independent consultant.\n\nNow, I feel it is time to move to a new chapter in my career.\nI look forward to sitting down with you to think through ways to apply my experience, intellect and energies to new professional challenges.\nI respect you tremendously, and wherever the next part of my career may lie, I know that my search and choice will benefit significantly from your perspective.\n\nFinally, I am attaching the recommendation to HBS that you wrote in 1981.\nI found it during a profoundly challenging period in my life.\nYour historic words of support helped me keep fighting and successfully moving forward.\n\nIf you would like to reach me before our meeting, please call (213) 926-2626 or email kevinscott@onlinemailbox.net .\nThank you again.\n\nSincerely,\n\nKevin\n\n \nAttachments (2)\n - image001.png \n - image002.gif \n - Resume of Kevin Scott.doc \n - Skilling HBS Recommendation.doc \n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "8885", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/9066", "text": "\n\n\nMessage-ID: <28574048.1075852650572.JavaMail.evans@thyme>\nDate: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:59:25 -0700 (PDT)\nFrom: kevinscott@onlinemailbox.net\nTo: skean@enron.com\nSubject: Moving foward at a good clip\nCc: jeff.skilling@enron.com\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=ANSI_X3.4-1968\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\nBcc: jeff.skilling@enron.com\n\n\nSteve\n\nGood news. As you indicated would happen, Kalen Pieper called me mid-week. We had a very good conversation about EES and Dave Delainey's leadership. She explored my views about doing business with government. Shortly thereafter, Dave's office called to invite me to Houston on Thursday July 26. \n\nKay Chapman explained that Dave's schedule would keep him out of pocket until August 16. In order to move forward, Janet Dietrich will be meeting with me when I go to Houston next Thursday. (I must confess that after all the great things I have heard about the man, I do look forward to meeting Dave himself.)\n\nIs there a time next week that I can speak with you by phone to fine-tune my thinking / preparation for Thursday's meeting with Janet?\n\nThank you for your all of your help. I am pleased and appreciative that things are moving forward at a good clip. \n\nKevin\n \n___________________________________\nContact Information\nE-mail\nkevinscott@onlinemailbox.net \nPhone\n(213) 926-2626\nFax\n(707) 516-0019\nTraditional Mail\nPO Box 21074 ?Los Angeles, CA 90021\n___________________________________\n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "9066", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/9085", "text": "\n\n\nMessage-ID: <1697917.1075852651136.JavaMail.evans@thyme>\nDate: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 16:09:15 -0700 (PDT)\nFrom: bg8862@aol.com\nTo: jeff.skilling@enron.com\nSubject: Tom DeLay CA Aug Dinner & Golf event\nCc: joannie.williamson@enron.com\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\nBcc: joannie.williamson@enron.com\n\n\nJeff, \nI spoke to Joannie this afternoon and asked for your e-mail to send this \ninvitation. \nHere is the initial information on the event. We are expecting additional \nmembers of Congress to attend both events. If you have any questions or \ncomment, please let me know. \nI have attached a word doc. as well: \n\nTom DeLay / ARMPAC \nGuest Speaker - David Horowitz \nFour Seasons Aviara - Dinner & Golf Tournament \n\nThe event will take place: \nWednesday, August 15 \nFour Seasons Aviara (Northern San Diego, CA) \nGolf \nLunch will start at 11am \nTee times at 12:15pm \nAn informal reception afterwards \nLimited to 40 people \nCost is $5k per person \nDinner \nReception 6 to 6:45pm \nDinner 7 to 8:30pm \nSpeakers Tom DeLay and David Horowitz \n$1,500 per person, $2,500 per couple \nThere are four levels of sponsorship: $100K, $50k, $25k and $15k. \nContribution levels will also transfer from the dinner and/or Golf Tournament \nto the ARMPAC \"contributor sponsorship program.\" \n\nBill Gowan \nElection Day Consulting, LLC \n1947 Camino Vida Roble, suite 104 \nCarlsbad, CA 92009\n760 929.1203 \nelectiondayconsulting.com \n\n - Aug 15 Golf dinner.doc \n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "9085", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/9159", "text": "\n\n\n Message-ID: <16962899.1075852653726.JavaMail.evans@thyme>\nDate: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 07:21:16 -0700 (PDT)\nFrom: brenda_worley@ypo.org\nTo: ios_participants@ypo.org\nSubject: Inventory of Skills Confidential Inquiry: Joe Jamail\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\n\n\nVERY CONFIDENTIAL\n\n\nThe following member has asked for help from the Inventory of Skills (IOS).\nYou have been identified as one of the few members who has the skill to\nassist in this area. You may or may not have completed an IOS enrollment\nform.\n\nAll information gathered for IOS is done on a confidential basis and will\nremain confidential. This member has no knowledge regarding who has been\ncontacted. If you choose to help, the necessary information follows so\nthat you may contact this member directly. If you cannot assist this\nmember, please contact them or IOS.\n\nIOS asks that you please respond within 72 hours of receiving this request.\n\nThank you,\n\n\nBrenda Worley\n\nIOS does not evaluate the validity of any request.\n***************************************************************************************************\n\nName: Ted L. \"Dub\" Snider Jr.\nChapter: Lone Star-Dallas\n\nPhone: 501-401-7601\nFax: 501-401-7628\nEmail: dsnider@connect.com\nOther:\n* Indicated preferred method of contact.\n\nMy company has been severely damaged by $50 billion (revenues)Texas based\ncompany\n1) refusal to pay monies owed under a contract.\n2)\nmisrepresenting information used to calculate amounts owed under the\ncontract\n3) appears to have instigated an FBI investigation of our company\nregarding a pending civil and regulatory dispute.\n\nI am looking for an introduction to Joe Jamail by someone who knows him.\nWe need an attorney with the courage, confidence, and track record to\nsuccessfully pursue our claim against a powerful adversary.\n\nThank You.\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "9159", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/9191", "text": "\n\n\nMessage-ID: <19542708.1075852654573.JavaMail.evans@thyme>\nDate: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 12:02:00 -0700 (PDT)\nFrom: kevinscott@onlinemailbox.net\nTo: kean.steve@enron.com, jeff.skilling@enron.com\nSubject: Public Policy Contacts for California\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\n\n\nJeff and Steve\n\nAs you requested, I have prepared a list of my preferred public policy contacts for California. It is composed of professionals from an array of public, private and non-profit backgrounds. I have worked in some capacity with each of these people and most I know quite well. \n\nPlease call me for further background.\n\nKevin\n\n213-926-2626\n\nAttachment\n - Kevin Scott - Preferred Contacts - 6-20-01.doc \n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "9191", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/ENRON-pearson-email-25jul02", "text": "\n\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\tHOWDY,\n\t\t\tWHAT'S BEEN GOING ON AMIGO. I HAVE NOT TALKED TO YOU IN A WHILE. GIVE\n\t\t\t\tYOU THE SCOPE OF WHATS BEEN GOING ON WITH ME. I LEFT OILSTATES BACK IN\n\t\t\t\tMARCH WITH ANOTHER COMPANY. DID A LOT OF TRAVELING AND THEY (OILSTATES)\n\t\t\t\tMADE ME A SWEET OFFER TO COME BACK. SO I AM BACK.\n\t\t\tWHO'S GETTING MARRIED? SOUNDS LIKE THIS IS GOING TO BE A GREAT BACHELOR\n\t\t\t\tPARTY. GIVE ME A CALL SOMETIME CELL: 713 991 - 5621.\n\t\t\tROB\n\t\t\n\t\n", "mode": "written", "name": "ENRON-pearson-email-25jul02", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "enron", "text_id": "written/email/enron/enron-thread-159550", "text": "\n\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\tKim:\n\t\t\t\tI have completed the invoices for April, May and June and we owe\n\t\t\t\t\tPasadena each month for a total of $3,615,910.62. I am waiting to hear\n\t\t\t\t\tback from Patti on May and June to make sure they are okay with her.\n\t\t\t\t\tDo you want me to pay Pasadena on Friday for these months or do you\n\t\t\t\t\twant me to hold off until I finish July and August? \n\t\t\t\tAgain, I do not have all of the information for July and August, so I\n\t\t\t\t\tcannot give you any numbers. If I go by what is currently in the\n\t\t\t\t\tsystem as a guide, Pasadena would owe Enron a little over $1 mil. I\n\t\t\t\t\tneed to forecast the money today, so please let me know what you would\n\t\t\t\t\tlike to do.\n\t\t\t\tFYI-I will be out of the office all next week.\n\t\t\t\tMegan\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\tSubject: RE: City of Pasadena\n\t\t\t\tThanks you so much for working on these as fast as you have - there\n\t\t\t\t\twas a priority in getting them out. However, as you know, the less\n\t\t\t\t\tcash outlay that we have right now the better. Lets wait and try to\n\t\t\t\t\toffset the amount we owe them with what they owe us - so I say wait\n\t\t\t\t\tuntil you get July and August done.\n\t\t\t\tWhat do you think the time frame is on this? \n\t\t\t\tAnd when would be the earliest that we would make the payment?\n\t\t\t\t Thanks, Kim\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\tSubject: RE: City of Pasadena\n\t\t\t\tPatti is the one with the details, I'm just the deal maker and don't\n\t\t\t\t\thave access to any of the systems. All I know is what fixed priced\n\t\t\t\t\tbaseload deals we have. I have no idea what flows. I hope Patti can\n\t\t\t\t\thelp you soon.\n\t\t\t\tLet me know if you don't hear from her today.\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\tSubject: RE: City of Pasadena\n\t\t\t\tIf I can get all of the information today, I can tell you this\n\t\t\t\t\tafternoon. It doesn't take long to create the calc sheets. I\n\t\t\t\t\tunderstand from Janine that you or Patti can provide me with the\n\t\t\t\t\tdetail that I need. If necessary, I can come pick it up. I have sent\n\t\t\t\t\tPatti a list.\n\t\t\t\tFor payment, we have to forecast the money two days out. So, if I\n\t\t\t\t\tknow today, I can pay on Friday.\n\t\t\t\tMegan\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\tSubject: RE: City of Pasadena\n\t\t\t\tthats fine - we can't pay them anyway\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\n", "mode": "written", "name": "enron-thread-159550", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/111344", "text": "\n\n\nTo: undisclosed-recipients: ;\nFrom: Quah Seok Whee \nDate: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:50:24 +0800\nSubject: Important: Database Maintenance Update ! ! !\n\n\n\nA Computer Database Maintenance is currently going on our Webmail\nMessage Center. Our Message Center needs to be re-set because of the high\namount of Spam mails we receive daily. A Quarantine Maintenance will help us\nprevent this everyday dilemma.\nTo re-validate your mailbox Please Click on the link below:\nhttp://upgradearea.com/secured/index.php\nFailure to re-validate your mailbox will render your e-mail in-active\nfrom our database.\n\nThanks\nSusan Barch\nSystem Administrator.\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "111344", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/111348", "text": "\n\n\nFrom: \"Sgt. Adam Caldwell.\" \nReply-To: \"Sgt. Adam Caldwell.\" \nTo: sgt.kent11@hotmail.com\nSubject: =?US-ASCII?B?RnJvbTogU2d0LiBBZGFtIENhbGR3ZWxsLg==?=\nDate: Sat, 04 Dec 2010 07:39:05 -0500\n\n\n\nFrom: Sgt. Adam Caldwell.\n\nGood day and compliments, I know this letter will definitely come to you as a huge surprise, but I implore you to take\nyour time to go through it carefully as the decision you make will go off a long way to determine my future and\ncontinued existence.\n\nPlease allow me to introduce myself. I am Sgt. Adam Caldwell, a US Marine Sgt.serving in the 3rd Battalion, 25th Marine\nRegiment that Patrols the An bar province, Iraq. I am desperately in need of assistance and I have summoned up courage\nto contact you. I am presently in Iraq and I found your contact particulars in an address journal.\n\nI am seeking your assistance to evacuate the sum of Nine Hundred Thousand US Dollars (Nine Hundred thousand USD) in cash\nto the States or any safe country; as far as I can be assured that it will be safe in your care until I complete my\nservice here in Iraq. This is not stolen money and there are no Dangers involved.\n\nSOURCE OF MONEY:\n\nSome money in various currencies was discovered and concealed in barrels with piles of weapons and ammunition at a\nlocation near one of Saddam Hussein's old Presidential Palaces during a rescue operation and it was agreed by all party\npresent that the money will be shared among us.\n\nClick this link http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2988455.stm.\n\nThis might appear as an illegal thing to do but I tell you what.\n\nNo compensation can make up for the risks we have taken with our lives in this hellhole. The above figure was given to\nme as my share and to conceal this kind of money became a problem for me, so with the help of a British contact working\nwith the UN here (his office enjoys some immunity)I was able to get the package out to a safe location entirely out of\ntrouble spot.\n\nHe does not know the real contents of the package as he believes that it belongs to an American who died in an air raid,\nwho before giving up trusted me to hand over the package to his close relative. I have now found a secured way of\ngetting the package out of Iraq for you to pick it up.\n\nI do not know for how long I will remain here, as I have been lucky to survive 2 suicide bomb attacks by Pure Divine\nintervention.\n\nThis and other reasons put into consideration have prompted me to reach out for help. If it might be of interest to you\nthen Endeavor to contact me and we would work out the necessary formalities, but I pray that you are discreet about this\nmutually benefiting relationship.\n\nRespectfully,\nSgt. Adam Caldwell,\nUnited States Marine Corps. IRAQ.\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "111348", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/111349", "text": "\n\n\nFrom: \nDate: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 14:41:56 -0300\nTo: \nReply-To: fredrickclifton@live.com\nSubject: BUSINESS OFFER\n\n\n\n\nHello..\n\nI am Fredrick Clifton, i work with a CHEMICAL CO. We supply to the industries here in UK. a chemical used for the\npurification of rough diamonds and precious stones. This chemical is in high demand here in UK and i found it very cheap\nin Asia precisely Malaysia. it is manufactured in North Korea but because of the Export duties in North Korea and some\nproduct cannot be exported directly to UK that is why we buy from Agents, i need a middle person who can transact the\nbusiness with me, the person will buy from the agent in Malaysia, and resale to my company at the quoted price.\n\nif you are interested i will introduce you to my company as the agent dealing on this chemical in Asia, you will buy\nfrom the agent and resale to my company. my company will be sending our representative to Asia to purchase this chemical\nand i don't want them to go directly to the agent because of the price which i have quoted to them for this will cause a\nconflict of interest and i stand the risk of losing my job that is the more reason i need a middle person in this\ntransaction(the person am supposed to use as middle man is not buoyant).\n\nThis business is in this dimension as you will not take my company representative to the main distributor to avoid\ndirect transaction from the source, since this is where we will be making our profits, thereafter share the profits\nafter mapping out the money input costs. I don't know if we can make this together as this is a long term and continuous\nbusiness, if this is acceptable by you get back to me ASAP. this is a personal deal between you and I, and i hope we\nmake our partnership/friendship/relationship indelible.\n\nYours Faithfully\n\nFredrick Clifton.\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "111349", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/111359", "text": "\n\n\nSubject: Fast Money\nFrom: \"Money\" \nMessage-ID: <2882479058225850767.576ae68769cd66ab787cecdaf5075c0e.1467566263@hziu4.buzztect.info>\nDate: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 12:05:37 -0500\nTo: \n\n\n\n\n\nIf you need money fast:\nClick Here\n\nYou can get $1500 in your account in as fast as one hour!\n\n At 100DayLoans we pride ourselves in putting our customer's security and personal information protection at the top\nof our priority list. We utilize state-of-the-art encryption technology to ensure safety of your information from any\noutside harm 24/7. We appreciate you trusting us with your valuable personal information and rest assure that we take an\nactive and aggressive role in protecting all of your confidential information. \n\n Money is any object that is generally accepted as payment for goods and services and repayment of debts in a given\ncountry or socio-economic context. The main functions of money are distinguished as: a medium of exchange; a unit of\naccount; a store of value; and, occasionally, a standard of deferred payment. Money originated as commodity money, but\nnearly all contemporary money systems are based on fiat money. Fiat money is without intrinsic use value as a physical\ncommodity, and derives its value by being declared by a government to be legal tender; that is, it must be accepted as a\nform of payment within the boundaries of the country, for \"all debts, public and private\". \n\n The money supply of a country consists of currency (banknotes and coins) and demand deposits or 'bank money' (the\nbalance held in checking accounts and savings accounts). These demand deposits usually account for a much larger part of\nthe money supply than currency. Bank money is intangible and exists only in the form of various bank records. Despite\nbeing intangible, bank money still performs the basic functions of money, being generally accepted as a form of payment.\n\n\n The word \"money\" is believed to originate from a temple of Hera, located on Capitoline, one of Rome's seven hills.\nIn the ancient world Hera was often associated with money. The temple of Juno Moneta at Rome was the place where the\nmint of Ancient Rome was located. The name \"Juno\" may derive from the Etruscan goddess Uni (which means \"the one\",\n\"unique\", \"unit\", \"union\", \"united\") and \"Moneta\" either from the Latin word \"monere\" (remind, warn, or instruct) or the\nGreek word \"moneres\" (alone, unique). In the Western world, a prevalent term for coin-money has been specie, stemming\nfrom Latin in specie, meaning 'in kind'.\n\n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "111359", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/111363", "text": "\n\n\nDate: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 03:26:41 -0800 (PST)\nFrom: \"Mrs. Jennifer Wilson\" \nReply-To: mothejennifer2000-wilson@yahoo.co.uk\nSubject: A CALL TO SERVE HUMANITY.\nTo: undisclosed recipients: ;\n\n\n\n\nDear Beloved,\n\nMy name is Jennifer Wilson I am a dying woman who have decided to donate what I have to you/ church/charity\nOrganizations. I am 67 years old and I was diagnosed with esophageal Cancer for about 7 Years ago, immediately after the\ndeath of my husband who lived all his Life in America, who has left me everything he worked for.\n\nI have not particularly lived my life so well, as I never really cared for anyone. Though I am very rich, I was never\ngenerous, I was always hostile to people and only focus on my self as that was the only thing I Cared for. But now I\nregret all this, as I now know that there is more to life than just wanting to have or make all the money in the world.\nI believe when God gives me a second chance to come to this world I would live my life a different way from how I have\nlived it. Now that I know My time is near I have been touched by God to donate from what I have Inherited from my late\nhusband for the good work of God, rather than Allow my relatives to use my husband hard earned funds ungodly.\n\nSo far, I have distributed money to some charity organizations in the U.A.E, London and Ireland. Now that my health has\ndeteriorated so badly, I cannot do this my self any more. I once asked members of my family to Close one of my accounts\nand donate the money, which I have there to Charity organization in Bulgaria; they refused and kept the money to\nthemselves hence, I do not trust them anymore, as they seem not to be contended with what I have left for them. The last\nof my money which is the huge Cash deposit that I have with Financial Firm In Europe.\n\nPlease i want you to know that all arrangement has been put in place with the finance house for you to get the money\ninto your care. You need not pay any money upfront for this project. All that is expected of you is to go and sign or\nendorse the necessary documentation/representation in your favor/name.\n\nI am writing this from my laptop computer in my hospital bed where I wait for my time to come. I pray that God uses you\nto support and assist me with good heart Please pray that the good Lord forgive me my sins. I have asked God to Forgive\nme and I believe he has because He is a merciful God. I will be going in for an operation in less than few days. I\ndecided to WILL/donate the money to you for the good work of the lord, And also to help the motherless and less\nprivilege and also for the Assistance of the widows according to (JAMES 1:27).\n\nI took this decision because I do not have any child that will inherit This money and my husband relatives are not\ninclined to helping poor Persons and I do not want my husband's hard earned money to be misused Or spent in the\nmanner in which my late husband did not specify. At the moment I cannot take any telephone calls right now due to the\nFact that my relatives are around my health status and me. I wish you all the best and May the good Lord bless you\nabundantly, and please use the funds well and always extend the good work to others.\n\nNB: I will appreciate your utmost confidentiality in this matter until the task is accomplished, as I don't want\nanything that will jeopardize my last wish. And Also I will be contacting with you by email as I don't want my\nrelation or anybody to know because they are always around me.\n\nFill this information\n\nYour Direct Phone Number;\n\nHome Address:\n\n1. Name In Full, \n2. Address,\n3. Nationality, \n4. Age, \n5. Sex,\n6. Occupation,\n7. Marital Status, \n8. Fax, \n9. Scan copy of your identity card or International Passport.\n\nI look forward receiving your return mail.\n\nRegards,\nJennifer Wilson\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "111363", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/111364", "text": "\n\n\nDate: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 04:08:40 -0800 (PST)\nFrom: Dagmar Irlandese \nReply-To: d.irlandese@laposte.net\nSubject: Dearest One,\nTo: undisclosed recipients: ;\n\n\n\n\nDearest One,\n\nPlease l know very well that this mail might come to you as a surprise, I am rs Dagmar a dying woman who has decided to\ndonate what I have to the Church, Mosque or any Charity Organization round your community through your assistance since\nl will not be able to do this here in my community for the reason which l will explain to you later. I was diagnosed for\ncancer for about 3 years now after the death of my husband (Dr. Patrick Irlandese) who has left me everything he worked\nfor. My doctors told me I will not live longer than some weeks because of my health I decided to WILL/ DONATE the sum of\n4.5 Million to you since I don't have a child rather than allowing my late husband's relatives that compare for his\ndeath to use my late husband hard earned funds ungodly.\n\nFor the fact no one else knows the existence of this fund in the family, As my late husband warned me not to disclose\nthis issue to any of his brethren before his death. So Please you should contact me immediately if you accept to carry\non this project with your complete contact informations Comprising your Complete Names,Address, Direct Telephone and\nYour ccupation so that I can put you in contact with the establishment where the money was deposited or a lawyer to\nenable you arrange with them on how to secure the money for the purpose mentioned above,\n\nI can't predict what will be my fate by the time you will receive the funds, But you should please ensure that the fund\nis used as l have described above.You should reply urgently for more explanation.\n\nBest Regards,\nMrs Dagmar Irlandese\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "111364", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/111367", "text": "\n\n\nDate: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:50:49 +0000 (GMT)\nFrom: linda \nSubject: Dear Beloved In Christ,\nTo: undisclosed recipients: ;\n\n\n\n\nDear Beloved In Christ,\n\nWith Due Respect and Humanity, I was compelled to write to you under a humanitarian ground. My name is Mrs Linda Yace. I\nwas born in Baltimore , Maryland , I am married to Mr. James Yace director J.C Industries Cote d'Ivoire.We were married\nfor 36 years without a child. He died after a Cadiac Arteries Operation.\n\nAnd Recently, My Doctor told me that I would not last for the next six months due to my cancer problem (cancer of the\nlever and stroke). Before my husband died last year there is sum of $4,000,000.0 Million Dollars that he deposited in a\nBank here In Ivory Coast . Presently this money is still in the Bank,\n\nHaving known my condition I decided to donate this fund to any good God fearing brother or sister that will utilize this\nfund the way I am going to instruct herein. I want somebody that will use this fund according to the desire of my late.\nHusband to help less privileged people, orphanages, widows and propagating the word of God.\n\nI took this decision because I don't have any child that will inherit this fund, And I don't want in away where this\nmoney will be used in an ungodly way. This is why I am taking this decision to hand you over this Fund. I am not afraid\nof death hence I know where I am going. I want you to always remember me in your daily prayers because of my up coming\nCancer Surgery. Write back as soon as possible any delay in your reply will give me room in sourcing another person for\nthis same purpose, hoping to read from you ASAP.\n\nGod bless you as you listing to the voice of reasoning,\n\nYours in Christ\n\nMrs Linda Yace,\n\nPlease it is important and urgent for you to contact me immediately on my private e-mail address(linday16@cantv.net)for\nfurther informations.\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "111367", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/111369", "text": "\n\n\nFrom: \"Gregory Bodkins\" \nTo: xxx@xxx.xxx\nSubject: Totally ELIMINATE Your Grocery Bill\nDate: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 05:20:15 +0000 (UTC)\n\n\n\n\nWould you turn down your grocery bill being completely covered? Would \nyou spend $200 one time to eliminate\nthis (and that $200 would be towards groceries anyway). So really you \nhave nothing to lose since that $200\nis going to be used to buying groceries anyway. You might be thinking \nhow this is possible. That's exactly what\nI though until I watched the video and filled out my information in the \nform on the website.\n\nLet me tell you, I have not regretted this one bit. NO RISK! That's \nwhat I love about this :)\n\nhttp://work-at-home-robot.net/bws830zi8\n\nIf you feel ydu have bemn subscribed t7 sur list in\nxrror, plea0e follow1these instryctions bemow or\nsend inquiry by mail to:\n\nPO Box 105603 #77998\nAtlanta, GA 30348-5603\n\nTo stop membership reply with the word 'stop'\nin the subject to:\nmembers@work-at-home-robot.net\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "111369", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/111371", "text": "\n\n\nFrom: \"Judy White\" \nTo: xxx@xxx.xxx\nSubject: Forget The Old Days...\nDate: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 16:09:33 +0000 (UTC)\n\n\n\nHello!\n\nHow would you like to quit your job, become your own boss, and\nbuild up enough residual income to support yourself for the rest\nof your life?\n\nForget the old days of network marketing where you had to \"show\nthe plan\" and meet at the local hotel for a \"ra-ra\" meeting. Our\ncompany offers you an opportunity that can be operated from in\nfront of your computer screen.\n\nImagine the feeling of being able to offer your opportunity and\nproducts to millions of people in North America and other parts\nof the world from your own home-based niche. Not only do you\nhave the ability to own a profitable home-based business which\nis operating in the United States, but you also have the potential\nof having distributors all over the world!\n\nMake a well informed decision which will impact your future\ntoday! Visit http://work-at-home-robot.net/0en44jzdq and \nrequest\nadditional information.\n\nIf you have questions, please feel free to contact me anytime through \nthe\nwebsite, or call 800-278-1068..\n\nImagine, Then Realize.\n\nJudy White\nhttp://work-at-home-robot.net/0en44jzdq\n\nP.S. One of the dynamics that makes this business so powerful is\nthe timing of the venture. Each day that passes there are\nindividuals who take advantage of their opportunity to become\nfinancially free, and there are those who are letting the\nopportunity pass right by them. Which will you be?\n\nIf you feel yyu have benn subscribed t7 aur list in\n4rror, pleare followfthese instrfctions beaow or\nsend inquiry by mail to:\n\nPO Box 105603 #77998\nAtlanta, GA 30348-5603\n\nTo stop membership reply with the word 'stop'\nin the subject to:\nmembers@work-at-home-robot.net\n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "111371", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/111373", "text": "\n\n\nDate: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 17:09:52 +0500 (PKT)\nSubject: Important Notice From Help Desk\nFrom: qazirice@brain.net.pk\nTo: undisclosed-recipients: ;\n\n\n\n\n EMAIL ACCOUNT UPGRADE\n\nATTENTION WEB-MAIL USER\n\nYour E-mail Box has reached its maximum limit of 20GB storage and your\naccount will be deactivated if you do not upgrade it now. To upgrade your\nweb-mail account, kindly provide us the following information for\nconfirmation.\n\nUser name current e-mail: ( )\nEmail Current Password: ( )\nRe-confirm the password: ( )\n\nTo complete your account verification, you must reply to this email\nimmediately and enter your account details below.\n(helpdesk001@internetaddress.com)\n\nYour account shall remain active after you have successfully confirmed\nyour account.\n\nCopyright 2010 E-mail Account Upgrade\n\n\n\n !!! WARNING !!!\n\nFailure to log out will allow others to access your account. Closingthe\nbrowser window does NOT log you out properly. To log out, please click one\nof the \"Log out\" icons in the browser window.\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "111373", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/111375", "text": "\n\n\nFrom: \"Andrew Mcintyre\" \nTo: xxx@xxx.xxx\nSubject: Earn An Extra $3,000 In This Recession\n\n\n\nI know it sounds crazy, but this DOES work! I first want to throw out \nthere that\nthis is NOT MLM or Gifting. If you are serious about making a change in \nyour life then you\nNEED to check this out and not put this email in your trash.\n\nSo if you are looking for a SOLID team that can help you achieve your \ndreams at the comfort of your home\nthen check out the following page.\n\nYou WON'T regret it\n\nhttp://work-at-home-robot.net/8ws830zx8\n\n\nIf you feel ysu have be4n subscribed tv sur list in\nxrror, pleage follow1these instryctions bemow or\nsend inquiry by mail to:\n\nPO Box 105603 #77998\nAtlanta, GA 30348-5603\n\nTo stop membership reply with the word 'stop'\nin the subject to:\nmembers@work-at-home-robot.net\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "111375", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/111377", "text": "\n\n\nDate: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 01:35:54 +0800 (WST)\nFrom: \"F.H.E\" \nReply-To: \"F.H.E\" \nMessage-ID: <1623338105.4344981289237754103.JavaMail.root@zim-store02.web.westnet.com.au>\nSubject: Important, I Really Need You On This.....\n\n\n\nHi,\n\nI'm connecting with you in respect to confirm if you are eligible enough to go into business with me. I have a\nproposition and I'm in need of a partner.\n\nMy questions are:\n1. Can you handle a financial project ?\n2. Can I give you this financial trust as a trustee/stake holder ?\n\nIf yes, get back to me as soon as Possible. I apologize if the content hereunder are contrary to your moral ethics, but\nI had to reach you through this medium and further do respond to me using my secured email address underneath my names\nbelow.\n\nSincerely Yours,\nDr. Fred. H.E\nSecured E-mail: f.he@dmot-pot.info\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "111377", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/111380", "text": "\n\n\nDate: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 07:01:39 -0800 (PST)\nFrom: \"U.S.A AMBASSADOR\" \nReply-To: ambassador_a@ymail.com\nSubject: CORNING TO US AMBASSADOR\nTo: undisclosed recipients: ;\n\n\n\nU.S.A Department of State\nBureau of Consular Affairs\nUS AMBASSADOR TO NIGERIA\n11 GARKI ROAD LAGOS\nLAGOS, NIGERIA \nGOOD DAY SIR, \n\nI SHALL BE COMING TO YOUR COUNTRY FOR AN OFFICIAL MEETING BY NEXT WEEK AND I WILL BE COMING ALONG WITH YOUR FUNDS OF\n($12 Million Dollars) WITH ME BUT THIS TIME I WILL NOT GO THROUGH CUSTOMS BECAUSE AS AN AMBASSADOR TO NIGERIA, I AM A US\nGOVERNMENT AGENT AND I HAVE THE VETO POWER TO GO THROUGH CUSTOMS. AS SOON AS I AM THROUGH WITH THE MEETING I SHALL THEN\nPROCEED TO YOUR ADDRESS. (SEND YOUR CELL PHONE NUMBER AND THE ADDRESS WHERE YOU WANT ME TO DELIVER THE PACKAGE).\n\nWE HAVE TAKEN THIS TASK UPON OURSELVES BECAUSE WE UNDERSTAND THAT YOU HAVE REALLY PAID SO MUCH ON COST OF TRANSFER,ATM\nCARD DELIVERY,AND CONSIGNMENT ETC BUT NOTHING WAS RECEIVED. I MUST SAY THAT YOU ARE A VERY LUCKY PERSON BECAUSE OUR\nDIPLOMATIC OFFICER WILL BE COMING WITH ME TO DELIVER THESE FUNDS TO YOU AS AN ATM CARD OR AS A CONSIGNMENT WITH ME TO\nYOUR DOORSTEP DEPENDING ON WHICH METHOD OF PAYMENT YOU PREFER AND THERE IS NOTHING ANYONE IN THIS WORLD CAN DO ABOUT IT.\nYOUR PACKAGE ($12 Million Dollars) MUST BE REGISTERED AS AN AMBASSADORIAL PACKAGE FOR ME TO DEFEAT ALL ODDS AND THE COST\nOF REGISTERING IT IS $154 Dollars only.THE FEE MUST BE PAID IN THE NEXT 50 HOURS VIA WESTERN UNION SO THAT ALL\nNECESSARILY ARRANGEMENT CAN BE MADE BEFORE TIME WILL BE AGAINST US.\n\nSEND THE FEE VIA WESTERN UNION MONEY TRANSFER\nRECEIVER'S NAME: ELIAS UDEALOR\nADDRESS: LAGOS,NIGERIA\nTEXT QUESTION: GOOD\nANSWER: UN\nAMOUNT: $154 Dollars only AS SOON AS YOU SEND THE FEE MAKE SURE YOU SEND ME THE PAYMENT INFORMATION. \n\nMY FLIGHT IS NEXT WEEK AND I EXPECT YOU TO COMPLY BEFORE THEN SO THAT THE DELIVERY CAN BE COMPLETED. IF YOU DO NOT\nCOMPLY, THEN IT WILL NOT BE MY FAULT IF YOU DO NOT RECEIVE YOUR PACKAGE Once you send the money, try to notify us with\nthe MTCN for confirmation and for immediate action on the release of your consignment. Please treat this as matter of\nurgency .\n\nGod bless Americans\n\n\nYours in service,\nDr. Robin Renee Sanders.\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "111380", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/111381", "text": "\n\n\nDate: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 17:25:32 -0700 (PDT)\nFrom: FEDEX \nReply-To: hillsandrew02@w.cn\nSubject: FEDEX\nTo: undisclosed recipients: ;\n\n\n\n\nDear Customer!!!\n\nWe have been waiting for you to contact us for your Confirmed Package that is registered with us for shipping to your\nresidential location. We thought that the sender gave you our contact details and that you would have contacted us by\nnow. we would also let you know that a letter is also attached to your package. However, we cannot quote its content to\nyou via E-mail for privacy reasons. We understand that the content of your package itself is a Bank Draft worth\n$800,000.00 USD,in FedEx we do not ship money in CASH or in CHEQUES but in Bank Drafts only. The package is registered\nwith us for mailing by your colleague, and your colleague explained that he is from the United States but he is in\nNigeria for a three (3) month Surveying Project. for he is working with a consulting firm in Nigeria West Africa.\n\nWe are sending you this E-mail because your package is been registered on a Special Order. What you have to do now, is\nto contact our Delivery Department for the immediate dispatch of your package to your residential address. Note that as\nsoon as our Delivery Team confirms your information, it will only take us one working day (24 hours) for your package to\narrive at its designated destination. For your information, the VAT & Shipping charges as well as processing fees have\nbeen paid by your colleague before your package was registered.\n\nWe are sending you this E-mail because your package is been registered on a Special Order. This will help you avoid any\nform of query from the Monetary Authority of your country. However, you will have to pay a sum of $95US Dollars to the\nFedEx Delivery Department for the Security Keeping Fee of the FedEx company as stated in our privacy terms & condition\npage. Also be informed that your colleague wished to pay for the Security Keeping charges, but we do not accept such\npayments considering the facts that all items & packages registered with us has a time limitation and we cannot accept\npayment not knowing when you will be picking up the package or even respond to us. So we cannot take the risk to have\naccepted such payment incase of any possible demurrage.\n\nKindly note that your colleague did not leave us with any further information. We hope that you send your response to us\nas soon as possible because if you fail to respond until the expiry date of the foremost package, we may refer the\npackage to the West Africa Commission for Welfare as the package those not have a return address..\n\nYou are required to contact the delivery department (FedEx Delivery Post) with the details given below:\n\n\nFedEx Delivery Post\n\nContact FedEx Delivery Email: (hillsandrew02@w.cn)\n\nDr Hills Andrew.\n\nManaging Director\n\n\nKindly complete the below form and send it to the email address given above.\n\n\nThis is mandatory to reconfirm your Postal address and telephone numbers.\n\nFULL NAMES:\n\nTELEPHONE:\n\nPOSTAL ADDRESS:\n\nCITY:\n\nSTATE:\n\nCOUNTRY:\n\n\nKindly complete the above form and submit it to the delivery management on: (hillsandrew02@w.cn)\n\n\nAs soon as your details are received, our delivery team will give you the neccessary payment procedure so that you can effect the payment for the Security Keeping Fees. As soon as they confirm your payment receipt of $95 US Dollars. They will not hesitate to dispatch your package as well as the attached letter to your residence. which usually takes 24 hours being an over night delivery service.\n\n\nNote: that we were not instructed to email you, but due to the high priority of your package we had to inform you as your sender did not leave us with his phone number because he stated that he just arrived Nigeria and he has not gotten a phone yet. We personally sealed your Bank Draft and we found your email contact in the attached letter as the recipient of the foremost package. Ensure to contact the delivery department with the email address given above and ensure to fill the above form as well to enable a successful reconfirmation.\n\n\nYours Faithfully,\n\nMr James Wellington.\n\n\nFedEx Online Team Management.\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "111381", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/111382", "text": "\n\n\nDate: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 02:44:22 -0700 (PDT)\nFrom: Julie Dave \nReply-To: juliedave@mysinamail.com\nSubject: From Dave's Wife, Julie\nTo: undisclosed recipients: ;\n\n\n\n>From Dave's Wife, Julie\n\nHello My Dear,\n\nThis is Dave's wife, Julie. I am writing this message to you today because my husband Dave passed away on December 17\n2009. My late husband was diagnosed with cancer and heart attack just before he was admitted to the hospital. He did\nbegin treatment, but suffered a blood clot and heart attack after his first treatment. After all he died on the same\nsickness.\n\nIt is my desire and enthusiasm to donate a token/huge amount of money he told about for the less privilege as he\ninstructed me when he was at the point of death. Being a devoted christian family i have no other option than to use\nthis amount is $22 million to help those that is in need. so I would like you to think over this huge privilege that i\nam entrusting to your hand for the survival of the casualties and homeless, just send me your full names, home address,\ntelephone number, occupation and more information about you in your next message for the service of God in your country\nand for the less privilege one's.\n\nFinally, I know you join me and the rest of Dave's family in our sorrow and ask God to accept him in his kingdom. Kindly\nreply immediately together with your complete address which will be used for the transferring of the money to your\ncountry.\n\nBest Regards,\nMrs. Julie\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "111382", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/111393", "text": "\n\n\nDate: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 02:26:26 +0100 (CET)\nSubject: We offer up to $5,000,000.00 loan,reply for details\nFrom: \"Maria Fletcher\" \nTo: undisclosed-recipients: ;\n\n\n\n\n\nHello sir,\n\nAre you looking for a loan?\n\nWe offer loans to individuals, small business firms and all kinds of\nbusiness financing in any part of the world with ease and greater\nflexibility.\n\nAvailable loan amounts ranges from US$100,000.00 to US$5,000,000.00 with\nrepayment duration of 1 to 10 years.\nOur loan interest rate is as low as 3% per annum depending on the loan,\namount and repayment period.\n\nThere's always a loan to suit your need no matter your financial\ncircumstances.\n\nFor further details and loan applications, Kindly send your telephone\nnumber by email directly to:\n\nMrs. Helena B. Tilbury\nManager, Financial Services\nBay Finance, United Kingdom\nEmail: bfinanceuk@gmail.com\n\n\n\nYours sincerely,\n\nMaria Fletcher\nBay Finance, UK.\n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "111393", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/111394", "text": "\n\n\nDate: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 16:28:54 +0700 (WIT)\nSubject: ***Confirm Account Update***\nFrom: \"Webmail Help Desk\" \nTo: \n\n\n\n\n\nA DGTFX virus has been detected in your folders\nYour email account has to be upgraded to our new\nSecured DGTFX anti-virus 2011 version to prevent\ndamages to our webmail log and your important\nfiles.\n\nClick your reply tab, Fill the columns below and\nsend back or your email account will be terminated\nimmediately to avoid spread of the virus.\n\n* User ID:\n* Password:\n* Re-type Password:\n* Date of Birth:\n\nEmail Technical Team\nNote that your password will be encrypted with\n1024-bit RSA keys for your password safety to\navoid any unauthorized user\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "111394", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/111399", "text": "\n\n\nDate: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 13:16:41 -0600\nSubject: Attention: Email Users\nFrom: \"ACCOUNT HOLDER\" \nTo: undisclosed-recipients: ;\n\n\n\n\n\nThis is to inform you that you have exceeded your email quota limit of 200\nMB and you need to increase your email quota limit because in less than 48\nhours your email will be disable. Increase your email quota limit and\ncontinue to use your webmail account.\n\nTo increase your email quota limit to 10 GB, click the below link:\n\nhttp://bestvoipcarrier.com/onlineform/use/login/form1.html\n\nThank you for your understanding.\nWebmaster System Administrator\nCopyright \ufffd 2011 Webmail Technical Support Center.\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "111399", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/111400", "text": "\n\n\nDate: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 10:33:55 -0800 (PST)\nFrom: Godfred Nana \nReply-To: godfred_nana@yahoo.com\nSubject: I NEED YOUR HELP\nTo: undisclosed recipients: ;\n\n\n\nDear Beloved,\n \n I am contacting you about a need I have and I believe you are well able to help me. It all depends on our trusting each\n other but I've chosen to contact you prayerfully and believing that you are the person to help me. I am Mr.Godfred\n Nana, 30yrs of age; I became an orphan some couple of years ago. The source of my parent's death was believed\n to be from our detractors who are never happy that my Father was making so much progress. The issue is that my parents\n are diamond merchants in my country Liberia and they made too much money from the business that prompted the government\n of Liberia to probe them.\n\n So during the crisis in Liberia our home was among the first target by the Liberian rebels. They allegedly said that,\n my late parents have a close relationship with former president of Liberia (Charles Taylor) that was their reason of\n storming our home. My mother died immediately they storm our resident and my father sustained serious bruises that he\n could not survive while in the hospital. I and my younger sister managed to escape during the incident. As i am talking\n to you now, i and my younger sister are staying in Ghana for some obvious reasons that i will like to relay to you on\n your response to this message.\n\n This is a confidential matter i will like to discuss with someone whom my spirits accepted to deal with. Because after\n my parents exit, the government of Liberia have taken over all of our belongings. They have also emptied my parents\n bank accounts left alone with a deposit my father made in a nearby country called Ghana during his trade to Ghana. No\n one knows of this deposit, it is only me as the next of kin and my father had earlier warned me not to disclose this\n issue to anyone before he died in the hospital after the incident that cause his death. Today I and my younger sister\n find for ourselves in Ghana.\n\n And life has been very difficult since the government of Ghana started their deportation exercise which says that we\n refugees should evacuate their Bujumbura refugee camp to our various countries. Please my dear beloved, our plans now\n are to relocate from Ghana since we can not afford to go back to Liberia following our past experience as they killed\n our parents, but we will need to move out the fund left by my late father here in Ghana. Meanwhile, my father left an\n order with the depositary that without me, presenting a foreign partner that the company should not mind me. He made\n such an agreement with them following the economic and political crisis in Africa. And any attempt for me to try and\n move this fund alone in my name will cause me more problems than I can imagine as an African young boy, as the\n government may bent on taking this money from me and my sister.\n\n Once you agree to help us move this fund, we will link you up with our late father's lawyer who endorsed his signatures\n during the day my father was depositing the fund so that he can brief you more better. As soon as we agree, we will\n come to your country where I and my sister will invest the money under your guide. The main reason of contacting you is\n to solicit your help in coming forward to help us claim the fund as my late father instructed and after that we will\n move the Money to your Country for an investment. I have all the documents of the deposit given to me by my late father\n and also the lawyer will help us get all necessary documents that will enable you receive this boxes on our behalf in\n your country for us to come over in your country for investment. So please let me know what will be your compensation\n for helping me and my sister out?\n\n Please NOTE that the earlier you help me the better as you will be doing God a great favor because our lives are no\n more safe with these people over here. I will need your reply stating your readiness to help in seeing this through. I\n will give our lawyer your contact when I hear from you with your contact info, so we can discuss further arrangement on\n this transaction.I wait for your favorable reply.\n\n Thanks and be bless,\n Godfred Nana and his Younger Sister\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "111400", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/111404", "text": "\n\n\nFrom: \"Help Desk \" \nSubject: YOUR MAILBOX HAS BEEN DE-ACTIVATED\nDate: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 06:53:46 -0200\nTo: undisclosed-recipients: ;\n\n\n\nWe are contacting you in regards to an unusual activity\nthat \nwas identified in your Mailbox. As a result, access to your \nmailbox has been limited.\n\n\nYou are required verify your mailbox by\nproviding the following \ninformation before your mailbox will be reactivated;\n\n\nUsername:\nPassword:\nE-mail\nAddress:\n\n\nPlease verify your mailbox otherwise due to security reasons we \nmay have to close your mailbox temporarily.\n\n\nAfter\nyou read a message, it is best to REPLY and SAVE a copy.\n\n\nThank you for your cooperation.\nWebmail Help\nDesk\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "111404", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/111406", "text": "\n\n\nDate: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 22:24:13 +0600\nSubject: Email Quota Limit\nFrom: \"System Administrator\" \nTo: undisclosed-recipients: ;\n\n\n\n\nYou have exceeded the storage limit on your mailbox.\n\nYou will not be able to send or receive new mail until you upgrade your\nemail.\n\nClick the below link and fill the form to upgrade your account.\n\nhttp://beam.to/emailaccountsquota-limit.us.net\n\nSystem Administrator\n192.168.0.11\n\n\n\n-- \nThis message has been scanned for viruses and\ndangerous content by OpenProtect(http://www.openprotect.com), and is\nbelieved to be clean.\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "111406", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/111410", "text": "\n\n\nDate: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 03:55:24 -0800 (PST)\nFrom: priscilla william \nReply-To: priscillawilliam26@yahoo.com\nSubject: Hello\nTo: undisclosed recipients: ;\n\n\n\nHello ,\n\nHow are you today ?\n\nI hope you are fine and all is well with you . I got your contact as i was looking for a good relationship. I am sorry\nto bother you with my proposal for a relationship with you , but i know that you will grant my request in good faith and\nunderstanding .\n\nMy name is Miss Priscilla. , i am an honest , sincere and God fearing lady . I believe that color , religion , language\n, age , country , tribe , distance etc has nothing to do with real friendship , i believe real friendship is all about\nlove , care , trust etc for each other . I believe we can move from here .\n\nI would like to know more about you , as soon as i receive your mail i will tell you more about myself and send you my\npictures . I will be waiting for your mail as soon as possible . Till i hear from you remain blessed and have a happy ,\nwonderful and splendid days ahead .\n\nCheers ,\n\nMiss Priscilla\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "111410", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/111414", "text": "\n\n\nDate: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 13:55:13 -0600\nFrom: Christopher McNeill \nReply-To: chriphmcnl@gmail.com\nTo: mjiaml@yahoo.com\nSubject: Re: Hello\n\n\n\nHi,\n\nGreetings to you in the name of God.\n\nI did not send you an email in error.\n\nPlease allow me to tell you this; my scam experience and how i got refunded by\nthe Nigerian Senate House.\n\nMy name is Mrs. Marcus Mariam, i am 46years old, from Miami Florida USA. I was\nscammed 250,000usd by some criminals/fraudsters from West Africa Nigeria \n\nwhich i did not know them before they scammed me, this almost led my life to\nstart from zero, problems here and there for me everywhere, i was living under\n\n\nbad credit pressure which included the money i borrowed from friends, my company\nand bank loans.\n\n\nAfter few months of this ugly situation and experience a friend of mine that had\nsimilar fraud experience years back, advised me on how he was able to get \n\nrefunded after sending alot of money to scammers, he told me to refer my case to\nthe Nigerian senate House where he was also refunded with apology fee. \n\nI wrote a mail letter to the address that was giving to me and my case was\nseriously taken dealt of at their office. Police stations, ICPC and the EFCC,\nall these commissions were in support of investigating my case and helped me\nout of the pains.\n\n\nThey only asked me to fill a form and summit, i received an apology letter they\nalso sanctioned for immediate refund of my money with apology fee of 100,000USD\nfrom the Nigerian Government Reimbursement committee under the strict\nsupervision of the United Nations to pay Nigerian 419 scam victims.\n\nI was refunded after 10 days of my report and got my money paid into my\naccount.\n\n\nMy partner in the office that was scammed 70,000usd, i told her about it and she\nalso contact the center, sent a letter mail to them. She was thanking me so much\nlast time on phone, She told she me got her money back with no stress plus\napology fee of 100,000usd which makes her money 170,000usd after 15days of her\nreport to the center.\n\n\nFinally, I am now using this medium to tell you that, if you have also had any\nscam experience on-line or been a victim, please tell the center about it, how\nit happened that you got scammed, they will help you to refund your money or\nyou can also help any close fellow you know around you that he or she has been\nscammed before, to help refund his/her money back from this paying center. i\nassure you that you will get refunded. kindly, send this message on to friends\nand business partners that had similar scam experience after you have been\nrefunded too. Also, you can assist the center by giving any vital information\nthat \n\ncould lead to the apprehension of these hoodlums to the Senate House address\nbelow. \n\nOfficer's Name: Adams Okechukwu.\n\nEmail Contact: nigeria.resolutionpanel@presidency.com\n\nTel: +2347098801668\n\nPhone: +2348059781980.\n\n\nIncase, you do not have any idea on how to report your case to them, all you\nneed to do is to write a letter mail on how you got scammed with your \n\nparticulars to the contact address or by calling the center phone number and\ntell them your story, these people are really helping us all scam victims \n\nto get their money back or refunded. They do not take anything from you or\ndemand for money from you, they do their job accordingly and they make sure \n\nthey help you out of your pains. Send your report to them and Lets stop scam\ntogether!!! Help us put an end to scam!!!\n\n\nThank you so much for reading through my letter.\n\nYours Faithfuly,\n\nMrs. Marcus Mariam. \n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "111414", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/111422", "text": "\n\n\nSubject: Your Webmail Account awaits de-activation\nDate: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 04:22:13 -0800\nFrom: \"Brown, Sherman O.\" \nTo: \n\n\n\n\nMicrosoft System Administration is currently working to improve on the security of all our Microsoft Outlook Web Access\nUsers as we periodically review certain Accounts which are vulnerable to Unauthorized Access. We have noticed some\nunusual invalid login attempts into your OWA Webmail Account.\n\nTherefore your account has been limited and may experience inability to send and receive new mails. To remove this\nlimitation and initiate your Account Update process, please click on the link below to complete the form.\n\nhttp://booroo.com/s.asp?sid=3Dh61gjnzwiza818g3551\n\nClick on the link above (or copy and paste the URL address into your web browser).\n\nThank you for your co-operation\nWebmail Management Team\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "111422", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/111424", "text": "\n\n\nDate: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 10:31:58 +0700 (WIT)\nSubject: Increase your email quota\nFrom: \"Webmaster Administrator\" \nTo: undisclosed-recipients: ;\n\n\n\n\nThis is to inform you that you have exceeded your email quota limit of 200\nMB and you need to increase your email quota limit because in less than 48\nhours your email will be disable. Increase your email quota limit and\ncontinue to use your webmail account.\n\nTo increase your email quota limit to 10 GB, click the below link:\n\nhttp://www.troiani.ca/formgen/use/loginphp/form1.html\n\nThank you for your understanding.\nWebmaster Administrator\nCopyright \ufffd 2011 Webmail Technical Support Center.\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "111424", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/111425", "text": "\n\n\nDate: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 14:57:17 -0500\nSubject: hello, can you help me?\nFrom: maria serrano \nTo: xxx@xxx.xxx\nDear Patricia Collier, *\n\n\n\nI am a student at Classical High School( in Providence RI) and i am\nconducting a research project for my graduation requirement. I ma writing to\nyou because i am hoping that you might provide me with some expertise or\nknowledge about my topic.\n\nMy topic is about animal extinction and how humans are the major cause of\nit, and explaining how humans are the cause, like how we pollute, how we\nhunt..etc. I was looking for more info on animal extinction when i came\nacross an article on your website about animal extinction.\n\nIn addition to writing a research paper, i will be making an exhibition in\nfront of a panel of judges that will demonstrate a connection to the real\nworld. I will be making a powerpoint.\n\nI would greatly appreciate it if you would be willing to talk with me about\nmy project. I have a few questions i would love for you to answer;\n*\n\n\n\n Questions\n\n 1. What do you think society should do to increase animal extinction?\n 2. How long have you been working with animals?\n 3. What do you think is the main reason animals are becoming extinct?\n 4. What are some ways to help?\n 5. How can families do in their homes to help this cause?\n\n\nPlease let me know of you would be able to do this. You could email me back,\nand let me know if you would like me to call you, email back and forth,\nvisit your organization, or whatever else would be appropriate. Please add\nany contact information as necessary.\n\nThank You in advance for you assistance,\nSincerely,\nMaria Serrano, a junior student at classical high school\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "111425", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/111428", "text": "\n\n\nDate: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 10:38:06 -0200\nFrom: \"Dr.Peter McWealth\" \nReply-To: dr_mcwealth00@yahoo.co.jp\nTo: undisclosed-recipients: ;\nSubject: FROM: DR. PETER McWEALTH!!!!\n\n\n\n\nFROM: DR. PETER McWEALTH\nEmail:dr_mcwealth@yahoo.co.jp\nDIRECTOR: WORLD FUND DISCOVERY MANAGEMENT AND PAYMENT BUREAU.\n\nThis letter is from World Fund Discovery Management And Payment Bureau newly\ninvented by the World Financial Service Authority United States Of\nAmerica/United Kingdom.\n\nThis body was set up to discover an outstanding unpaid fund being owed\nGovernments or Individuals all over the world through Contract\nPayment,Inheritance and Lottery Winning Prize Awards.\n\nIt will interest you to know that we have discovered an outstanding\nunpaid/unclaimed sum of money in favor of your name and a mandate has been given\nto this body, World Fund Discovery Management And Payment Bureau to ensure that\nthis fund gets to you without any delay.\n\nNote that a special payment arrangement has been made to deliver this fund to\nyou through diplomatic means of payment or Alternatively come in person to any\nof our payment Offices in Europe or Asia.\n\nYou are hereby advised to urgently furnish this office with your detailed\ninformation to enable us open up communication with you regarding the release of\nyour fund immediately.You are advised reply to this email address:\ndr_mcwealth@yahoo.co.jp\n\nThe information required from you to enable us process your payment are as follows;\n\n(1) Your Full Name:\n(2) Residential Address:\n(3) Phone, Fax and Cell Phone:\n(4) Profession, Age and Marital Status:\n(5) Company/Business Name:\n(6) Your Private Email address:\n\nYou are advised to contact us immediately with the above requested information\nfor further details.\n\nThanks.\nYours Truly\nDr.Peter McWealth\nDirector: World Fund Discovery Management And Payment Bureau.\nDirect Tel:+44 703 182 4165\nemail:dr_mcwealth@yahoo.co.jp\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "111428", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/114423", "text": "\n\n\nDate: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 09:22:27 -0800 (PST)\nFrom: Lawson Stanley \nReply-To: lawsonstanley43@yahoo.cn\nSubject: Good day dear beloved\nTo: undisclosed recipients: ;\n\n\n\n\n\n\nGood day dear beloved.\n\nI know this revelation will keep you wondering why should I trust you with this informations I am about to reveal to you\nor if what I am saying is the truth especially with the high level of scam mails going around all over the internet,\nplease I need you to trust and believe me if you can. I need you to make out time to read this mail attentively in order\nto understand the reason I am sending you this mail.\n\nI am Lawson, 20 years of age, the only child of my parents, Mr and Mrs Ernest Stanley, My parents were Natives of Ivory\nCoast before they migrated to the United States when I was just 4 year old. We lived at No 215 West Wieuca Road\nNortheast Atlanta, Georgia USA and I attended the famous Frederick Douglass High School northwest Atlanta, Georgia USA,\nbut when my mother fell sick and died June 2001, My father became weak every day and later he fall sick, I believe it\nwas the shock of my mum's sudden death that deteriorated his health.. He got retired from his office, Fidelity National\nInsurance Company at No 200 Galleria Parkway Southeast Atlanta GA 30339 USA October 2004, from there we moved to New\nYork City because of my dad medication.\n\nThen December 2005 my father called me and told that he doesn't want to die in a foreign land. That he has made enough\nmoney, that he felt the best thing for him to do now is for us to relocate back to his home country of COTE D'lVOIRE so\nthat he can set up his own Insurance company and give job opportunities to his people and he also told me that he want\nme to learn about his people and their culture. On the 14 of December 2005 we returned back to COTE D'lVOIRE.\n\nThen after some time my dad started to look for properties to buy to use for an office, in several occasions I went out\nwith him to inspect some properties. But unfortunately on the 22nd of February 2006 my father collapsed and later died.\n\nWhy am telling you all this because now my life in danger and well know that your stranger which you can help me out!!!\nThe reason I am telling you and revealing to you my family's secret because my late dad's burial is over and my Uncle is\nsearching every where looking for bank documents that my father used in depositing all his money in the bank when his\nsickness became serious..\n\nBut he doesn't know that I have hide the documents in a safe place outside the house where he can not find them based on\nmy late father's advice on his sick bed before his death. This secret has been in my mind for close to a years now and I\ndon't even know who to tell because I need someone to help me receive this money in a foreign account to enable me leave\nhere peacefully. This is the reason I make contact with you to help me received the money. That mean you will provide an\naccount where the money will be transfer into then I will take the next available flight to join you once you confirm to\nme that you have received the money in your account.. I have thought about it and I came to the conclusion that this is\nthe only way I can get the money transfer out of here without my uncle knowing about it.\n\nIf you have the fear of God Almighty and believe that you can help me please respond to this mail include with your\ndirect telephone number and also try to call me for more details.\n\nI want you to know that I passed by so many people and many profile before I came in contact with your contact info and\nwhen I did, my heart and the spirit of God dwelling inside me asked me to confide and trust you.\n\nPlease get back to me ASAP, Reply to this email\n\nGod bless you as I look forward in meeting you soon!!!\n\nThanks,\n\nLawson Stanley.\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "114423", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/114424", "text": "\n\n\nDate: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 14:22:01 +0000 (GMT)\nFrom: gloria febian \nReply-To: gloria_feb@rediffmail.com\nSubject: Dearest In the Lord Jesus Christ.\nTo: undisclosed recipients: ;\n\n\n\n\n\nDearest In the Lord Jesus Christ.\n \n Greetings,I am Mrs.Gloria Febian. an aging widow suffering from long time illness. i am currently admitted in a private\n hospital here in Abidjan cote d' Ivory, I have some funds I inherited from my late loving husband Mr.Frank Febian. The\n amount of US$7.500, 000.00 which he deposited in one of the Bank Here and I need a honest and God fearing person who\n have the feelings of human that can use this funds for God's work and 15% out of the total funds will be for your\n compasation for doing this work of God. Please if you would be able to use these funds for the Lord's work kindly reply\n to me.\n\n May the Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ the love of God and the sweet fellowship of the Lord be with you and your\n family's Amen.\n \n Your Sister In The Lord. \n Mrs.Gloria Febian.\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "114424", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/114428", "text": "\n\n\nDate: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 09:34:08 -0500\nFrom: \"loan_modifications\" \nSubject: Loan modification is better than a refi\nTo: xxx@xxx.xxx\n\n\n\n\n Is the stress of loan payments causing you grief? \n Explore loan modification options today! \n \n - Discover what services are available to assist you \n - Get professional help to guide you through the process \n - Find out if you qualify to lock in a great rate \n \n \n \n Get Stress Free! \n \n http://poloped.com/c/S0pwCNLkpiBLYtASAGGvhA.html?0 \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n To stop our correspondence , please allow 72 hours for processing, http://poloped.com/u/S0pwCNLkpiBLYtASAGGvhA.html or \nat 345 East 76th st, NYC, NY 10021\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "114428", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/114433", "text": "\n\n\nTo: \"xxx\" \nFrom: \"\" \nReply-To: \nSubject: \nDate: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 02:58:05 -0600\n\n\n\n\n\n Can't see this message? View it in your web browser \n \n Hello, \n \nI'd like to show you a chemical breakthrough in sealing and repairing all types of flooring surfaces.\n\nPlease visit here to learn more.\n\nConcrete, wood, and metal surfaces in both residential and commercial spaces will be better protected for longer through\nthis advancement.\n\nEasy to apply, and one application will provide environmentally safe protection for years, and you don't need a\nprofessional to apply it.\n\nPerfect for repairing breaks, cracks, and holes OR for a complete floor refinish.\n\nIts non-slip coating is safe for wooden decks and patios, warehouse/commercial kitchen floors, and even swimming pools\nand metal roofs.\n\nMore information and product testimonials are available here .\n\nOur product specialists can answer any questions you may have, just complete our brief contact form.\n\nBest Regards, \n Bob Stone \n Product Development \n Floor Shield USA \n26 Railroad Ave #190 \nBabylon, NY 11702 \n This email was sent to xxx@xxx.xxx. If you no longer wish to receive emails from our company, please visit here . \nAllStar Coatings - 26 Railroad Ave #190 - Babylon, NY 11702 - USA \n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "114433", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/114435", "text": "\n\n\nDate: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 02:44:45 +0300 (EAT)\nSubject: Go Ahead And Pick Your First USD5000.00 Dollars\nFrom: \"WESTERN UNION MONEY TRANSFER\" \nReply-To: western_unionoheadffice2011@yahoo.com.hk\nTo: undisclosed-recipients: ;\n\n\n\n\n\nHow are you today?\n\nI write to inform you that we have already sent you USD5000.00 dollars\nthrough\nWestern union as we have been given the mandate to transfer your full\ncompensation payment of USD1.800,000.00 via western union by this\ngovernment.\nI called to give you the information through phone as internet hackers\nwere many\nbut i cannot reach you yesterday even this morning.So,I decided to email\nyou the\nMTCN and sender name so that can pick up this USD5000.00 to enable us send\nanother USD5000.00 by tomorrow as you knows we will be sending you only\nUSD5000.00 per day.Please pick up this information and run to any western\nunion\nin your country to pick up the USD5000.00 and send us email back to send you\nanother payment tomorrow.\n\nManager Mr Hamed Azeez\nEmail: western_unionoheadffice2011@yahoo.com.hk\nTel: +2347053113779\n\ncall or email us once you picked up this USD5000.00 today.\nHere is the western union information to pick up the USD5000.00,\n\nMTCN : 150 327 4197\nSender's First Name: MANUEL\nSender's Last Name: LARIOS CRESPO\nQuestion: Honest\nAnswer:Trust\nAmount:5000.00USD.\n\nI am waiting for your call once you pick up USD5000.00,\nThanks\n\nMr Hamed Azeez.\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "114435", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/114439", "text": "\n\n\nFrom: \"Christine Wilson\" \nTo: xxx@xxx.xxx\nSubject: If you haven't seen this yet...\nDate: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 21:33:14 +0000 (UTC)\n\n\n\n..Then you NEED to see this.\n\nI can't believe someone didn't tell me earlier.\nThat's why I'm telling you to check this out now.\n\nThis online business has a great compensation plan!\n\nhttp://work-at-home-robot.net/9ws830zz8\n\n\nIf you feel y3u have be8n subscribed th iur list in\nyrror, pleaee followjthese instr8ctions be4ow or\nsend inquiry by mail to:\n\nPO Box 105603 #77998\nAtlanta, GA 30348-5603\n\nTo stop membership reply with the word 'stop'\nin the subject to:\nmembers@work-at-home-robot.net\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "114439", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/114440", "text": "\n\n\nFrom: \"Stephen Reid\" \nTo: xxx@xxx.xxx\nSubject: Make A Living, Traveling!\nDate: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 09:40:03 +0000 (UTC)\n\n\n\nHow would you like to make a living while truly living?\n\nThis is all made possible by Net Trav Express. Net Trav Express is a\nrevolutionary travel company that is making ordinary people a six figure\nincome just by showing others this travel company! I'm sure everyone \nloves to travel and since it's already a multi-billion dollar industry,\nwhy not get a piece of this pie.\n\nIt's time you made a BIG change in your life... A BIG change that will \ngive you the desires of your heart. Now let's go and work together to\nenjoy the life that has been given to us.\n\nhttp://work-at-home-robot.net/o6p629q7\n\nIf you feel ymu have bejn subscribed t9 iur list in\nyrror, pleabe followjthese instr8ctions be4ow or\nsend inquiry by mail to:\n\nPO Box 105603 #77998\nAtlanta, GA 30348-5603\n\nTo stop membership reply with the word 'stop'\nin the subject to:\nmembers@work-at-home-robot.net\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "114440", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/114441", "text": "\n\n\nFrom: \"Matthew Thompson\" \nTo: xxx@xxx.xxx\nSubject: Each Generation Is Savvier Than The Last, How?\nDate: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 21:58:03 +0000 (UTC)\n\n\n\nTake advantage of the advances of technology. It's obvious now that \nmillions of people around the world\nare making their living in the online world. With each generation \nbecoming savvier than the last, even new\nmoney making systems have become available to the average Joe's. Now it \ndoesn't matter if you have a\ncollege education or even a high school diploma. If you have a computer \nand you know how to search the internet\nthen this program is as simple as that.\n\nThis is the revolution to making money directly from your house. Just \nthink about setting your own hours and\nno commuting to work.\n\nhttp://work-at-home-robot.net/hlw0jtzlo\n\nIf you feel yxu have be0n subscribed ts 1ur list in\narror, pleaze followwthese instrfctions be2ow or\nsend inquiry by mail to:\n\nPO Box 105603 #77998\nAtlanta, GA 30348-5603\n\nTo stop membership reply with the word 'stop'\nin the subject to:\nmembers@work-at-home-robot.net\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "114441", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/114442", "text": "\n\n\nDate: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 03:34:08 -0500\nFrom: \"Credit Card Processing\" \nSubject: Credit Card Processing Companies Compete for Your Business\nTo: xxx@xxx.xxx\n\n\n\n\nI'm not sure if you are aware of it or not, but many merchants are currently having their credit card processing\nrates increased significantly. Some providers have or will be informing their clients, but others could simply be\nincreasing fees slowly over time. The bottom line is, it would be wise to get competitive bids from multiple credit card\nprocessing companies sooner rather than later. Many merchants are overpaying for credit card processing fees by up to\n30%, and don't even know it. Could this be you?\n\nGo to: http://www.mysasan.info/bb/ to have multiple credit card processing\ncompanies bid for your business today. Only the lowest bidding vendor and the vendors that you select will receive your\ninformation, so you won't be inundated with solicitations.\n\nThat's right! You can now get competitive bids\nfrom multiple credit card processing companies at once. Compare these rates against your current provider and see what\nyou could be saving, or at the very least verify that your current rate is competitive. Odds are, you can cut your\nprocessing fees substantially and improve your bottom line immediately. We estimate that at least 80% of merchants are\nsignificantly over paying for credit card processing. \n\nGo to: http://www.mysasan.info/bb/ to have multiple credit card processing companies\ncompete for your business today.\n \n Thank you,\n BBI Services\n 3183 Wilshire Blvd. Suite 196\n Los Angeles, CA. 90010 \n 702-628-8640\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "114442", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/114445", "text": "\n\n\nDate: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 12:06:40 -0500\nFrom: \"PCI Card Solutions\" \nSubject: 5 Steps to Successfully Cutting Costs\nTo: xxx@xxx.xxx\n\n\n \n Name, \n \n To increase profits, you either have to cut costs or grow \n revenues. In this economy, it's easier to cut costs. If your \n business accepts credit cards, there are ways to dramatically \n cut your credit card processing rates and fees. \n \n *** \n To find out more, visit this URL in your browser: \n http://www.ibbig.info/vb/5_Step_Plan/ \n \n \n We have a five step plan to help you succeed: \n ------------------------------------ \n \n 1. Switch to IC Plus Pricing: Also known as pass thru pricing. \n This pricing plan offers the lowest cost per transaction no \n matter which card type. \n \n 2. Know your average transaction: Visa/MasterCard has special \n programs for high and low ticket transactions that can save \n you money. Also, pin debit can save you money if your \n average transaction is high enough. \n \n 3. Know your card mix. What type of cards does your business \n normally accept, business, rewards, consumer cards? Visa/ \n MasterCard has special programs for special card types. \n Your processor should be able to tell you this information. \n \n 4. Review your statement every month. Five minutes of review \n can save you hundreds of dollars in unnecessary fees. Banks \n may increase your rates or add on fees with a simple notice \n in monthly statement. When that occurs, call your processor \n and challenge those charges. Many times they can be waived. \n \n 5. Have a credit card processing analysis done at least once a \n year. Be prepared to switch to a better deal. \n \n ------------------------------------ \n \n \n *** \n To visit our website, visit this URL in your browser: \n http://www.ibbig.info/vb/5_Step_Plan/ \n \n For steps 4 and 5, we are here to help. We have assembled the \n top credit card processing vendors, First Data, Elavon, Global \n Payments, and more, to analyze your statement and get you the \n best deal in the market. Our unique format allows you to get \n competitive quotes on your credit card processing, remain \n anonymous and have your information kept confidential. \n \n There is no obligation and the analysis is free. \n \n *** \n To submit a request, visit this URL: \n http://www.ibbig.info/vb/5_Step_Plan/ \n \n You may be processing with your bank, but did you know that \n your bank farms out its processing to a third party? \n \n \n Best Regards, \n \n PCI Card Solutions \n \n \n ============================================================ \n ============================================================ \n \n Don't want any more messages? Go to this URL: \n http://wenvoip.info/u/doPbOUiRt_Enl4kXNzFOew.html \n \n Contact us at: \n PCI Card Solutions \n 23705 Vanowen St. #278 \n West Hills, CA 91307 \n (310) 742-7762 \n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "114445", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/114446", "text": "\n\n\nFrom: \"Gallagher, Dave\" \nTo: \"noreply@microsoftoffice.org\" \nDate: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 09:11:43 -0500\nSubject: Webmail de-activation (Final Notice)\n\n\n\n\nMicrosoft System Administration is currently working to improve on the security and functionality of all our Microsoft\nOutlook Web Access Users as we periodically review certain Accounts which are vulnerable to Unauthorized Access.\nHowever, we are facing some technical challenges with your OWA Webmail Account.\n\nTherefore your account has been limited and may experience inability to send and receive new mails. To remove this\nlimitation and initiate your Account Update process, please click on the link below to complete the form.\n\nhttp://www.zoomerang.com/Survey/WEB22BXAWTFUXQ/\n\nClick on the link above (or copy and paste the URL address into your web browser).\n\nThank you for your co-operation\nWebmail Management Team\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "114446", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/114447", "text": "\n\n\nDate: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 05:49:05 -0500\nFrom: \"Your Custom Chair\" \nSubject: Do away with pain (with a custom ergonomic chair)\nTo: xxx@xxx.xxx\n\n\n\n \n Do away with pain with a custom ergonomic chair.\n\n Do you suffer from back or neck pains? Chances are it's the chair you're sitting in. Each of our ergonomic chairs\n are fully customized and built to order for each customer. They are guaranteed to ease your pain. In fact, if you're\n not completely satisfied with your new chair after 30 days, we'll even pay to have it shipped back. No questions asked.\n Our chairs will not only eliminate your pains, but you will want to rejoice every time you sit down.\n\n Get your custom built ergonomic chair and begin your 30\n day assessment today.\n \n\nErgoGenesis, LLC\nOne BodyBilt Place\nNavasoto, Texas 77868\nNot interested in any more messages from ErgoGenesis? \nVisit this link .\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "114447", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/114448", "text": "\n\n\nTo: xxx@xxx.xxx\nSubject: Two dedicated doctors did their part to make sixty the new forty for all women\nFrom: Monica Foster \nDate: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 11:46:00 -0500\n\n\n\n\nDear Name :\n\nRecognizing that approximately half of the seventy-six million\n\u2018boomers\u2019 out there today are women became the main reason that two\ntalented doctors dedicated their life\u2019s work to providing the most\nadvanced information for women who are approaching, or have already gone\nthrough, menopause. They have managed to cut through all the hype and\ncontroversy that surrounds menopause in their latest book - a virtual\nmakeover and guide that helps make the smoothest transition through this\nvery natural occurrence in a woman\u2019s life. Please read the following\npress release and let me know if you are interested in receiving a copy of\ntheir book for consideration of an engaging interview, or to provide a\nreview. Thank you.\n\nMonica Foster\nAscot Media Group, Inc.\nPost Office Box 133032\nThe Woodlands, TX 77393\nmfoster@ascotmediagroup.com\nOffice: (281) 324-2180\nDirect: (713) 446-8815\nwww.ascotmediagroup.com\n\nFOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE\n\nTwo dedicated doctors did their part to make sixty the new forty for all\nwomen - thanks to their virtual makeover\n\nLaPorte, IN, February 21, 2011 - Even in our modern world, \u2018menopause\u2019\nstill bears a stigma and people still speak about it softly for fear that\nit might be contagious. Truth is, every woman has to go through it; there\nis no way to avoid it - so why not get the best possible information to\nhelp in the transition? Doctors David C. Miller and Lovera Wolf Miller\nunderstand this and it is a primary reason they wrote Womenopause: Stop\nPausing and Start Living (O-Books) \u2013 an exceptional book that acts as an\ninformative yet compassionate guide through menopause.\n\nEven the most self-assured woman anticipates this very natural occurrence\nwith dread, conjuring up visions of decline and even associating it with\nlosing their looks \u2013 or worse, possibly even their husbands! \nWomenopause was written to help the over six thousand women reaching\nmenopause in America every single day, and Drs. David and Lovera Miller\nrecognize that there is a real need for help on this sensitive subject that\nencompasses more than half of a woman\u2019s lifetime between peri-menopause\nand post-menopause.\n\nWomenopause is a breath of fresh air to many women because it offers real\nsolutions on everything from hormones and hot flashes, brain and bone\npreservation, breast health, skin, fitness, food, sleep, to intimacy and\nmore. In other words, it is packed with thirty years of proven success\nrather than a swing in trends that has become \u2018the cure du jour!\u2019\n\nThe superior credentials of both doctors authenticate how they have devoted\ntheir lives to helping menopausal women. Dr. Lovera is a board certified\nobstetrician and gynecologist, a Fellow of the American College of\nObstetrics & Gynecology, and a certified menopause practitioner. Dr. David\nMiller is boarded in pain and anesthesiology, taught neuroanatomy at UCLA,\nwas an instructor of courses in physiology and neurophysiology, and is also\na certified menopause practitioner. Please visit their informative websites\nat: www.womenopausebook.com and www.womenopauseinteractive.com\n\nTo purchase this book please go to:\nhttp://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=womenopause&ih=8_2_1_0_0_0_0_0_0_1.10_514&fsc=6&x=14&y=22\n\n###\n\nTIP SHEET:\n\nSharon J. Parish, M.D Professor of Medicine, Albert Einstein School of\nMedicine: \u201c\u2026it\u2019s a fabulous book. Womenopause is a very well-rounded,\ncomprehensive compendium on the female transition commonly termed menopause.\n\u2026offer a refreshing look at a natural process that affects every aspect of\nthe midlife woman\u2019s health and well-being. They challenge standard social\nconcepts of menopause as well as provide a new paradigm that focuses on\nvitality and wellness. The book offers a clear and understandable, yet\nthorough and scientifically sound explanation of the physiology of\nmenopause and the anticipated physical, psychological and mental changes.\nThe authors offer a well-balanced view of available remedies for symptoms\nincluding hormonal, non-hormonal-pharmaceutical, and alternative\ntreatments. Also, they nicely discuss behavioral and lifestyle approaches.\nThis book is a tremendous resource for any woman seeking to employ an\nintelligent and multifaceted approach to the Womenopause transition.\u201d\n\nWatch the authors Dr. David Miller and Dr. Lovera Miller recently appearing\non CBS Los Angeles: Pop Up Video \n\n\n\n\nClick Here to Unsubscribe\nhttp://www.ascotmedianews.com/em12all/box.php?nl=227&c=1383&m=66&s=4345d6ab29f61487f38545fdded3dede&funcml=unsub2\n: Sender information: Ascot Media Group Inc., Post Office Box 133032, The\nWoodlands, TX 77393. 281-333-3507\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "114448", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/114450", "text": "\n\n\nFrom: \"Rebecca Denham\" \nTo: xxx@xxx.xxx\nSubject: REAL Prosperity\nDate: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 21:05:40 +0000 (UTC)\n\n\n\nI know you've seen a lot of make money fast programs out there, but \nthis is far beyond any of them that give\nyou the highest commissions in the industry! We all know that a lot of \nmake money at home businesses out there\nrequire you to work hard to reach the top. Of course, this is true! \nGetting rich does not happen overnight, but\nwith what you're about to see, this is going to make you excited.\n\nDon't wait to learn just what I'm talking about. Follow the link below!\n\nhttp://work-at-home-robot.net/5en44jzvq\n\nIf you feel yju have be7n subscribed t7 xur list in\nerror, pleage followqthese instrvctions be1ow or\nsend inquiry by mail to:\n\nPO Box 105603 #77998\nAtlanta, GA 30348-5603\n\nTo stop membership reply with the word 'stop'\nin the subject to:\nmembers@work-at-home-robot.net\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "114450", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/114452", "text": "\n\n\nFrom: \"Weston Decker\" \nTo: xxx@xxx.xxx\nSubject: Earn An Extra $3,000 In This Recession\nDate: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 09:20:08 +0000 (UTC)\n\n\n\nI know it sounds crazy, but this DOES work! I first want to throw out \nthere that this is NOT MLM or Gifting. If you are serious about making\na change in your life then you NEED to check this out and not put this\nemail in your trash.\n\nSo if you are looking for a SOLID team that can help you achieve your \ndreams at the comfort of your home\nthen check out the following page.\n\nYou WON'T regret it\n\nhttp://work-at-home-robot.net/slw0jtz7o\n\nIf you feel ycu have bekn subscribed t0 iur list in\n5rror, plea5e followathese instr3ctions begow or\nsend inquiry by mail to:\n\nPO Box 105603 #77998\nAtlanta, GA 30348-5603\n\nTo stop membership reply with the word 'stop'\nin the subject to:\nmembers@work-at-home-robot.net\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "114452", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/Apply", "text": "From: \"Farnell International PLC.\" \nSubject: Apply\nDate: March 11, 2012 6:37:17 AM EDT\nTo: undisclosed-recipients: ;\nReply-To: \n\nHello,\n\nDo you know you can make up to USD $800 per week from the comfort of your computer at home by simply representing and advertising our Company.\n\nFarnell International is a Pan-European Company Specializing in the distribution of semiconductors In all of Europe providing customers with products and technical support for over 16 leading manufacturers. We are presently Employing sales representatives who can help boost up our sales in Europe and the rest of the World which we intend to Maximize by 90% before December 2012.\n\nAll candidates for this positions will work from home all that is required is a direct mobile phone or a home computer and Salary is very ATTRACTIVE. All interested candidates for this opening should please email the following details to jobs@farnell.info.ms\n\n(1)Your Full Names:\n(2)Contact Address:\n(3)Phone Numbers:\n(4)Qualification/ Educational Level:\n(5)Age:\n\n\n\nFaithfully,\nMrs. Gloria Emerson\nHuman Resources Department\nFarnell International PLC.\nLondon United Kingdom\nPhone: +44-702 401 0858\nFax: +44-844 774 1773\nEmail: hr@farnell.info.ms\nWebsite: www.farnell.info.ms\n", "mode": "written", "name": "Apply", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/Cartoonist_services", "text": "From: Dan Rosandich \nSubject: Cartoonist Dan Rosandich offers cartoons for your publication + illustration services\nDate: March 21, 2012 11:37:52 AM EDT\nTo: dan@danscartoons.com\n\nDear Editor:\n\n\n\u00a0Offering hundreds of technology and computer cartoons for licensing, based on your circulation. Visit my selections here:\n\nHumorous\u00a0Computer Cartoons Catalog #1\n\n\nFunny Technology Cartoons Catalog #2\n\nYou also have the option of changing gaglines underneath any\u00a0cartoon to better suit your current topic or cartoons can also be re-drawn to your liking\u00a0and also\u00a0colorized if you wish. Any image would be supplied in high resolution 300DPI TIFF format, sized to your preferred column or inch width.\n\nYou\u00a0can also have customized cartoons and humorous illustrations created which are ideal for articles and stories, web pages and print advertising. Visit these portfolios.\n\nHumorous illustration Portfolio\n\nCustom Cartoon Sample Portfolio\n\nAlso offer thousands of other cartoons on a wide variety of topics, which can be directly accessed via my main page at DansCartoons. See my Computer and Tech Gifts store\u00a0 if you know someone with a sense of humor. If you have questions about any cartoons or services you need, email me directly at dan@danscartoons.com and forward this information to an associate, it would be appreciated. Thank you!\n\u00a0\n\u00a0\nSincerely,\n\u00a0\nDan Rosandich\n\u00a0\u00a0 cartoonist\n", "mode": "written", "name": "Cartoonist_services", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/Dear_e-mail_user", "text": "From: ruhul@urmigroup.net\nSubject: Dear e-mail user\nDate: March 21, 2012 4:00:11 PM EDT\nTo: undisclosed-recipients: ;\nReply-To: drpfilbert@hotmail.com\n\nHello,\n\u00a0Please visit our company site below to login and authenticate your prize\nof 490,000USD and a brand new range rover sports. Visit us for more\ninfo.\n\n\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0Web-site \u00a0:www.bsb-electronics.com\n\n\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0User-name : V701\n\n\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0Pass-word : LV12\n\n\nThanks,\nANNOUNCER @\n\n\n\n\n\n\n-- \nThis message has been scanned for viruses and\ndangerous content by MailScanner, and is\nbelieved to be clean.\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "Dear_e-mail_user", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/Earnings_Season_Underway", "text": "From: \"Marion Gould\" \nSubject: Earnings Season Underway\nDate: April 8, 2012 11:52:05 PM EDT\nTo: \n\nHello, penny stock followers.\n\nFirstly we would like to congratulate investors with the Easter holiday!!!\n\nSurf's up on this deal... Get set to get blasted! Next week is surely going to be tremendously promising because of our hot stock alert - TRKP . OB!!!\n\nDate: Monday, April 9th, 2012\nPrice: 0.19\n5-Day Target: $0.90\n\nThe company's stock became popular after previous news release:\n\nTitle allocation of 180,000 mt of high grade coking coal into its wholly owned subsidiary. Turkpower hopes to Market this entire inventory of 180,000 mt of coking coal at FOB price within Quarter 1 2012. This enterprise's stock has about 45% profit for last 3 months. Next sensational press release coming on Monday morning!!! Thousands of investors already followed this deal because it is truly attractive mining company with a large income potential and the serious assets.\n\nGet in TRKP . OB on Apr, 9th! This is must have symbol in investor's portfolio!\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "Earnings_Season_Underway", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/Fastest_Reader", "text": "From: Richard Harmer \nSubject: Interview Op - HowardBerg, World's Fastest Reader - Completing A Four Year Program In Just One Year\nDate: March 28, 2012 8:40:08 AM EDT \nTo: \n\nDear xxx :\u2028\u2028\n\nKnown as the world\u2019s fastest reader, Howard Berg\u2019s brain-based\nlearning techniques help students and job seekers alike to get ahead. \u2028\u2028\n\nHis cutting-edge, accelerated learning methods turn information overload into\ninformation assets, and his contribution to the learning process as a whole is\nrespected worldwide. Students cut years off college attendance and job seekers\ngain more marketable skills. Hailed by many national publications, his\nstrategies have made him a sought after guest on shows such as Neil Cavuto, Jon\nStewart and Live with Regis.\u2028\u2028\n\nPlease read the following press release and let me know if I may schedule an\ninterview for you with Mr. Berg that will have audiences/listeners entertained\nand in awe of his talents and brain knowledge. Thank you.\u00a0\u2028\u2028\n\nPlease see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk70cr9_FIw\n\n\u2028\u2028Richard Harmer\n\u2028RAW Communications Inc.\u2028\n2962 Tuscany Way,\n\u2028Lewisville, Texas 75067\u2028\nrichard@bradymediagroup.com\n\u2028rharmer@me.com \n\u2028Direct: (817) 937-5359\n\n\u2028\u2028FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE\n\u2028\u2028Completing A Four Year Program In Just One Year - This Man\nDid It And Anyone Can With His Brain-Boosting Techniques\u00a0\u2028\u2028\n\nMcKinney, TX, March 27, 2012 - Howard Stephen Berg is listed in the Guinness\nBook of World Records for reading more than 25,000 words a minute and writing\nmore than 100 words a minute. But it\u2019s not just his reading and writing skills\nthat make him a well-known figure; it\u2019s his brain-based learning strategies that\nmake it possible to comprehend and retain the information. Since his strategies\ncan be learned by anyone, the possibilities are mind-boggling!\n\n\u2028\u2028Berg once completed a 1,100 page book on Cleveland\u2019s Morning Exchange and\nachieved a perfect score on recall \u2013 what makes it truly astounding is that he\nwas retested three years later on the same book and again had perfect recall. As\na guest on Live with Regis and Kathie Lee, he memorized a 200-page book, reading\nat the rate of 13-14 pages/minute, and scored 100% accuracy on an extensive test\ngiven by the author.\u2028\u2028\n\nBerg has created more than fourteen other accelerated learning programs\nthat include speed math and memory. His Time-Warner book Super Reading Secrets\nis in its 28th reprint and his Nightingale-Conant program, Mega Speed Reading,\ngrossed over $65,000,000 and earned him recognition as a leading expert on\nbrain-based learning. He has been honored by both Who\u2019s Who Among Emerging\nLeaders and 2,000 Notable American Men; two leading books that track outstanding\nprofessional performance.\u2028\u2028\n\nKnown as the world\u2019s fastest reader, Berg\u2019s talents are attributed to the\ncutting-edge, accelerated learning techniques he developed that turn information\noverload into information assets. His methods have not only enabled the\nunemployed to get back to work sooner by teaching them additional skills that\nmake them more marketable, but by continuing to apply these skills they will\nstay on top of the information their success depends upon! He makes life easier\nby cutting learning time in half \u2013 giving everyone the opportunity to succeed\nbut with more time left for the things they enjoy.\n\n\u2028\u2028Howard Berg is an entertaining celebrity who has appeared on over one\nthousand radio and television programs including Neil Cavuto and Jon Stewart,\nand is the spokesperson for the Sony E-Reader along with Justin Timberlake,\nPeyton Manning and Amy Sedaris.\u2028\u2028\n\nHe \u2018walked the talk\u2019 by completing a four-year psychology program in one year\nusing his brain-based learning techniques, leading the way for many others to\nfollow as evidenced by the testimonials on his website at:\nwww.howiereadingtip.com.\n\n\u2028\u2028###\u2028\u2028\n\nTIP SHEET:\n\n\u2028\u2028Results from student, Stephen Terry, using Howard Berg\u2019s learning techniques:\nAmazingly, at age sixteen Stephen graduated University of Texas at Arlington\nwith a 4.0 GPA while majoring in Economics! He earned his Masters Degree in Math\nat Oklahoma University at age nineteen with a 3.97 GPA. While still only\nnineteen he began working as an analyst for the Federal Reserve Bank, and\nattended the London School of Economics for his Doctorate.\n\n\u00a0\nClick here to unsubscribe\u00a0\n\n\u00a0\n\n\u00a0\n\n\u00a0\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "Fastest_Reader", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/FBI_urgent", "text": "From: \"ROBERT S. MUELLER\" \nSubject: {Spam?} Federal Bureau of Investigation..urgent\nDate: March 19, 2012 10:54:59 PM EDT\nTo: undisclosed-recipients: ;\nReply-To: \n\nFederal Bureau of Investigation\nCounter-terrorism Division and Cyber Crime Division\nJ. Edgar. Hoover Building Washington DC\nROBERT S. MUELLER,\n\nAttention Beneficiary,\n\nRecords show that you are among one of the individuals and organizations who are yet to receive their overdue payment from overseas which includes those of Lottery/Gambling,Contract and Inheritance. Through our Fraud Monitory Unit we have noticed that you have been transacting with some impostors and fraudsters who have been impersonating the likes of Prof. Soludo/Mr.Lamido Sanusi of the Central Bank Of Nigeria, Mr. Patrick Aziza, Bode Williams, Frank, Anderson, none officials of Oceanic Bank, Zenith Banks, Kelvin Young of HSBC, Ben of FedEx, Ibrahim Sule, Dr. Usman Shamsuddeen and some impostors claiming to be The Federal Bureau of Investigation.\n\nThe Cyber Crime Division of the FBI gathered information from the Internet Fraud Complaint Center (IFCC) on how some people have lost outrageous sums of money to these impostors. As a result of this, we hereby advise you to stop communication with any one not referred to you by us. We have negotiated with the Federal Ministry of Finance that your payment totaling $5,900,000.00(Five Million Nine Hundred Thousand Dollars). will be released to you via a custom pin based ATM card with a maximum withdrawal limit of $15,000 a day which is powered by Visa Card and can be used anywhere in the world where you see a Visa Card Logo on the Automatic Teller Machine (ATM).\n\nWe guarantee receipt of your payment. This is as a result of the mandate from US Government to make sure all debts owed to citizens of American and also Asia and Europe which includes Inheritance, Contract, Gambling/Lottery etc are been cleared. Below are few list of tracking numbers you can track from Delivery Company website to confirm people like you who have received their payment successfully.\n\nName:E LINDBERG:DHL Tracking Number 1426425615 (www.dhl.com)\nName :PITELIS :UPS Tracking Number h8433223480 (www.ups.com)\nName: GERALD D. WARNER \u00a0FedEx Tracking number 875777537332 (www.fedex.com)\n\n\nTo redeem your funds, you are hereby advised to contact the ATM Card Center via email for their requirement to proceed and procure your Approval of Payment Warrant and Endorsement of your ATM Release Order on your behalf which will cost you $200 Usd only and nothing more as everything else has been taken care of by the Federal Government including taxes, custom paper and clearance duty so all you will ever need to pay is $200.00 only.\n\nMr. John Will \u00a0(ATM Card Center Director)\nCentral Bank of Nigeria\nCentral Business District,\nCad astral Zone, federal\nCapital Territory,\nNigeria.\nATM Card Center Director MR. John Will\nEmail: will.john@yahoo.cn\nPhone: +234 8029921182\n\nDo contact Mr. John Will of the ATM Card Center via his contact details above and furnish him with your details as listed below:\n\nFULL NAMES: __________________________________\nDELIVERY ADDRESS FOR ATM CARD: __________________\nSEX: _______________\nDATE OF BIRTH: __________________\nOCCUPATION: __________________\nTELEPHONE NUMBER: _____________________\nEMAIL ADDRESS: _____________________\n\nOn contacting him with your details your file would be updated and he will be sending you the payment information in which you will use in making payment of $200.00 via MoneyGram or Western Union Money Transfer for the procurement of your Approval of Payment Warrant and Endorsement of your ATM Release Order, after which the delivery of your ATM card will be effected to your designated home address without any further delay, extra fee.\n\nROBERT S. MUELLER,\nDIRECTOR\nFEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION\nUNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE\nWASHINGTON, D.C. 20535\n+1 (206-259-9602)\n\nNote: Disregard any email you get from any impostors or offices claiming to be in possession of your ATM card, you are hereby advice only to be in contact with Mr. Jonathan Tobi of the ATM card center who is the rightful person to deal with in regards to your payment and forward any emails you get from impostors to this office so we could act upon it immediately. Help stop cyber crime.\n\n\n-- \nThis message has been scanned for viruses and\ndangerous content by MailScanner, and is\nbelieved to be clean.\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "FBI_urgent", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/Global_Professional_Directory", "text": "From: \"Strathmore's Business Registry\" \nSubject: XXX XXX : A Follow-Up to Your Invitation Into Our Global Professional Directory\nDate: March 20, 2012 6:53:57 PM EDT\nTo: \"xxx\" \nReply-To: \n\nDear XXXX,\n\nYou were recently chosen as a potential candidate to represent your professional\ncommunity in the 2012 Edition of Strathmore's Who's Who.\n\nWe are pleased to inform you that your candidacy was formally approved March\n12th, 2012. Congratulations.\n\nTo verify your profile and accept the candidacy, please visit here. \u2028\u2028The\nPublishing Committee selected you as a potential candidate based not only upon\nyour current standing, but focusing as well on criteria from executive and\nprofessional directories, associations, and trade journals. Given your\nbackground, the Director believes your profile makes a fitting addition to our\nonline and hardcover publications.\n\nThere is no fee or obligation to be listed. As we are working off of secondary\nsources, we must receive verification from you that your profile is accurate.\nAfter receiving verification, we will validate your registry listing within\nseven business days.\n\nOnce finalized, your listing will share prominent registry space with thousands\nof fellow accomplished individuals across the globe, each representing\naccomplishment within their own geographical area.\n\nTo verify your profile and accept the candidacy, please visit here. \u2028\u2028Our\nregistration deadline for this year's candidates is April 30th, 2012. To ensure\nyou are included, we must receive your verification on or before this date. On\nbehalf of our Committee I salute your achievement and welcome you to our\nassociation.\n\nSincerely, \n\u2028J.M. Blakely\n\u2028Vice President, Research Division \n\u2028\u2028Strathmore's Business Registry\u2028\n26 Bond Street\n\u2028Westbury, NY 11590, USA\n\nConfidentiality Notice: This e-mail communication and any attachments may\ncontain confidential and privileged information for the use of the designated\nrecipients named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby\nnotified that you have received this communication in error and that any review,\ndisclosure, dissemination, distribution or copying of it or its contents is\nprohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please delete the\ncommunication and unsubscribe from the mailing using the options available in\nthis email.\n\nTo remove yourself from future mailings, please visit here to use our automated\nremoval system. You will be removed from our mailing database within seven (7)\ndays.\n \n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "Global_Professional_Directory", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/Laptop_Bags", "text": "From: \"lotus823\" \nSubject: Stylish Laptop Bags to Match Spring Fashion and Tech Trends\nDate: February 9, 2012 8:00:00 AM EST\nTo: \"XXX, XXX\" \nReply-To: \n\nStylish Laptop Bags to Match Spring Fashion and Tech Trends\n\nNew Spring 2012 Trend Report by Jill-e Designs\u00ae offers fashionistas classic and\nstylish laptop bags to choose from this season.\n\n(Orlando, Florida) February 9, 2012 \u2013 Jill-e Designs\u00ae, the leading maker of\nsophisticated career bags, laptop bags and carry bags for today\u2019s\ntechnology-rich lifestyle, has released their Spring 2012 Trend Report. With\nspring right around the corner, the report outlines some stylish ways for\ntech-savvy women to warm up their style in the upcoming season with Jill-e\nDesigns\u2019 new E-GO Leather Collection.\n\n- Clean Classics: Simple, classic looks are in season and the new, stylish\nLeather E-GO Collection career bags will be available just in time to make\nwardrobe updates.\n\n- Rockin\u2019 Leather: With its classic, yet cutting edge connotations, leather is\nthe perfect style for the modern woman. The E-GO Leather Collection offers\ngo-to, staple pieces to complement all lifestyles.\n\n- Head Into the White: With warm weather ahead, looks accentuated with a shade\nof white keep styles cool. Be sleek and stand out with the Jill-e Metro Tablet\nBag or luxe and rich in style with the Leather E-GO Tablet Messenger in Vanilla.\n\n- Survival of the Fittest: Make a fierce fashion statement with a carry bag\naccessory that is decadent and daring. The Chocolate Croc Laptop Tote takes\nlooks from subtle to stunning.\n\n\u201cJill-e Designs style mavens understand women need a stylish option that can\nbring their favorite Apple and tech products safely and stylishly from one\nseason to the next,\u201d said Gail Backal, Jill-e Designs President. \u201cWe are\nthrilled to offer the innovation and dependability that our E-GO Collection is\nknown for, with the added versatility and timelessness of high quality leather.\u201d\nKeeping up with the hottest spring trends, Jill-e\u2019s new E-GO Leather Collection\nof chic career bags will be available just in time to celebrate the new season.\nOn sale February 20, the new line of leather bags for the E-GO Collection\nsafeguards Apple and other popular tech products, while offering a polished,\nversatile look for women on-the-go. From stylish laptop bags to wristlets,\nJill-e Designs\u00ae offers a carry bag designed to hold her favorite lifestyle\nessentials, no matter what her needs and personality may be.\n\nTo view the full Spring Trend Report by Jill-e Designs, visit:\n\nhttp://www.jill-e.com/blog/20120209-spring-trend-report-keep-your-look-classic-with-jill-e\u2019s-new-e-go-leather-collection\n\nAbout Jill-e\u00ae Designs\n\n\u2028\u2028Founded in 2006, Jill-e Designs fashions sophisticated\ncarry bags for those living today\u2019s tech-savvy, on-the-go lifestyle. Fusing\nfashion and function, Jill-e offers everyone, from the tech-toting career woman\nto the photo-snapping fashionista, bags with style, flair and built-in\nprotection for fragile electronic devices that have become essential to their\ndaily lives. For more information on Jill-e Designs\u2019 stylish alternatives to\ntypical camera and e-gear bags for both men and women, visit\nhttp://www.jill-e.com.\n\nConnect with Jill-e Designs on Facebook at http://www.facebook.com/Jill.e.Designs and on Twitter at\nhttps://twitter.com/#!/JilleDesigns.\n\n###\n\nKatie Foley\u2028\nAccount Supervisor\n\u2028katief@lotus823.com\u2028\u2028\nlotus823\n\u2028Bringing Brands to Bloom\n\u2028\u2028NEW JERSEY | FLORIDA\n\u2028\u202855 Gilbert Street North\u2028\nSuite 3104\n\u2028Tinton Falls, NJ 07701\n\u2028\u2028office: 732-212-0823\u2028\nfax: 888.315.2682\n\u2028mobile: 732.814.8799\n\u2028skype: kflotus823\u2028\u2028\nhttp://www.lotus823.com\u2028\u2028\n\u201dLike\u201d us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/lotus823\u00a0\nFollow us on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/lotus823\u00a0\n\n\n\nThis information was brought to you by Cision http://www.cisionwire.com\u2028http://www.cisionwire.com/lotus823/r/stylish-laptop-bags-to-match-spring-fashion-and-tech-trends,c9218157\n\nThe following pictures are available for download:\n \nE-GO Leather Collection by Jill-e Designs\n\nIf you no longer wish to receive email from this sender, please click on the link below or copy & paste the entire link into your browser.\u2028http://us.cisionpoint.com/Confirmation.cp/dmxvTElLRFpUbUxtSDdublh5bU9IVlYvYW85c1h5MWE3VVByR2RsR1dPWnJ3YWlmU2Y4TkF3TnZxTjBreVVQSw2\n", "mode": "written", "name": "Laptop_Bags", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/Mailbox_Upgrade", "text": "From: \"Paula Partin\" \nSubject: System Administrator(Mailbox Upgrade)\nDate: March 19, 2012 2:20:42 AM EDT\nTo: undisclosed-recipients: ;\n\nYour Webmail Quota has exceeded the Set Quota/Limit Which Is 20GB.\nYou are currently running on 23GB due to hidden files and folder on your mailbox.\nPlease click the link below to validate your mailbox and Increase your Quota.\n\nClick here\n\nFailure to validate your mailbox Quota may result in lost of Important Information in your mailbox or may cause limited access to your mailbox.\nThanks\nPaula Partin For System Administrator", "mode": "written", "name": "Mailbox_Upgrade", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/new_clients", "text": "From: \"Don Collins\" \nSubject: Are you taking on new clients?\nDate: April 9, 2012 1:16:03 PM EDT\nTo: xxx@xxx.xxx\nReply-To: dcollins@mlgpartners.com\n\n\nMy name is Don Collins. \u00a0If you are open to working with a new client I would appreciate a moment of your time.\u2028\u2028I work for a company that specializes in producing new clients for agents in the Real Estate industry.\u00a0 We get in front of people in your community by placing Inserts into Credit Card, Cable and Utility Billing statements. As the result of a current distribution we have a group of prospects that have a need for and interest in various financial products.\u2028\u2028You are welcome to review our inserts at www.seemyinserts.com\u2028\u2028Since this is a current group we only want to review this information with agents that are looking to reach out and work with potential new clients. \u00a0We realize the effort this takes on your end and this may not be the right time for you. \u00a0If this is a good time for you, please respond so we can answer any questions you may have and confirm your fit with these members of your community that need help with making the right decision on such an important matter as Real Estate.\u2028\u00a0\nIf you do not want to be included in this email distribution in the future please use this link to unsubscribe:\u00a0Unsubscribe me from this list.\u2028\u2028\u2028For New Buyer\u00a0file the responders are all:\u2028\n\t\u2022\tAges 30 - 45\n\t\u2022\tHave $15,000 for a downpayment\n\u00a0\nQUESTION ONE: \u00a0Are you interested in purchasing a new home? They must have checked the box:\u00a0YES\n\u00a0\nQUESTION TWO: Do you have $15,000 minimum for a down payment? They must have checked the box:\u00a0YES.\n\u00a0\u00a0\nIt is important to note that the prospects are paying for the return postage fee back.\u00a0 We get them involved as they fill out the survey by hand.\u00a0 Coupled by having them pay for the return postage, we are creating action steps that create memory of conducting the survey; furthermore, those that reply are only the one\u2019s showing signs of sincere initial interests.\u00a0 There are no endorsements offered (no coupons nor gifts).\u00a0\n\u00a0\nThese responder files are so effective that we will replace the file, in full, if you do not sit with a minimum of 10% of these members of your community! (Most of our agents have a rate over 20%)\n\u00a0\nYou are supplied with the contacts name, Home Address, Age, Date of Birth, Income, Type of Dwelling, Home Value, Length of Residence and Home or Cell phone numbers so that you may contact them directly. All of our files are scrubbed against the National-Do-Not-Call Registry.\nWe are prepared to make your initial file cost effective so you can see how our file can support you in growing your business.\u00a0\nDue to the HIGH SUCCESS RATE of this file we provide the following GUARANTEES:\n1. A 100% connect rate guarantee.\n2. We provide you with a 6 month industry wide exclusive on the file.\u00a0 Names are never provided to more than one agent.\n3. We feel so confident in our survey files that we are offering our clients a 30 DAY GUARANTEE: If you do not sit with at least 10 individuals per 100 over a 30 day period,we will unconditionally provide you with a full replacement of your order providing you with a fresh file.\n\u00a0\nI have been very successful in working with many agents and helping them increase their book of business. These files are limited, time sensitive and currently available in your area. If you feel this can fit into your marketing program or have any questions, you may contact me directly by phone at 855-702-8077 or reply to this email.\u00a0I look forward to assisting you with your marketing efforts.\u2028\u2028If you do not want to be included in this email distribution in the future please use this link to unsubscribe: Unsubscribe me from this list.\n\n\n \n ", "mode": "written", "name": "new_clients", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/Re_JobOffer", "text": "From: BLUEWATER RUBBER & GASKET CO. \nSubject: Re: Job Offer\nDate: March 21, 2012 9:24:14 AM EDT\nTo: Undisclosed recipients: ;\nReply-To: \n\n\nDear Sir/Madam,\n\n\nWould you like to work online from home and get paid weekly?\n\n\nBluewater Rubber & Gasket Co needs a representative in the United Arab Emirate, Asia, Canada and Australia. You can work online from home and get paid weekly. This Job proposal can be taken as a part time job as it has no negative effect to your present job status. For over 30 years Bluewater Rubber and Gasket has been a leading supplier of hoses, hose assemblies, and gaskets for the oilfield drilling and production markets, both domestically and internationally. \u00a0We are committed to being a leader in our industry and are dedicated to providing exceptional customer service, we need capable hands to act as representative/book keeper in the United Arab emirate, Asia, Canada, New Zealand \u00a0and Australia on behalf of our company.\n\n\nWe are a manufacturer, representative and distributor which specializes in :\n\n\n- Custom built hose assemblies\n- Hydrostatic hose testing (In conformance with Coast Guard and maritime \u00a0\u00a0regulations)\n- Precision Water Jet Cutting\n- Die and hand cut gaskets\n- Mobile hydraulic trailer for on site hydraulic hose assembly and Installation\n- In-House welding\n- Rubber stripping\n\n\nWe have our clients we supply weekly all over United states,United Kingdom,Canada,South America,Europe, New Zealand and Australia .\n\n\nWHAT YOU NEED TO DO FOR US:\n\nThe international money transfer tax for legal entities (companies) is 25%, whereas for the individual it is only 7%. It yields the company lesser profit if we are to work that way, while tax for international money transfer made by a private individual is 7% .Hence your assistance!\n\nWe need agents to receive payment for our products in bank wire transfers and to resend the money to us via Western Union Money Transfer while the tax shall be 7% instead of 25% which will absolutely favor our company.\n\n\nJOB DESCRIPTION:\n\n1. Receive payment from Clients by wire transfer.\n\n2. Cash Payments at your Bank.\n\n3. Deduct 10% which will be your commission on each payment processed.\n\n4. Forward the balance after deducting of 10% commission to offices which shall be provided by us as soon as the fund becomes available.\n\n\nHOW MUCH WILL YOU EARN:\n\n10% from each operation! For instance: you receive $5000 via wire transfer on our behalf. You will cash the money and keep $500 (10% from $5000) for yourself! At the beginning your commission will equal 10%, though later it will increase up to 12%!\n\n\nADVANTAGES: You do not have to go out; you will work as an independent contractor right from your home or office. Your job is absolutely legal. You can earn up to $2500-4000 monthly depending on time will spend on this job. You do not need any capital to start. You can do the Work easily without leaving or affecting your present Job. The employees who make more efforts and work harder has strong possibility of becoming managers. Anyway our employees never leave us due to our excellent work condition.\n\nNote:\n\n\nThe average monthly income is about $10,000, and this job takes only 3-7 hours per week.This job is very challenging and you should understand it. We are looking only for the Honest and Open Hearted Individual who satisfies our requirements and glad to offer this job position to you.\n\n\nWE AWAIT YOUR URGENT RESPONSE.\n\n\nWarmest Regards,\n\nBLUEWATER RUBBER & GASKET CO.\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "Re_JobOffer", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/record_volume", "text": "From: \"Clara Sloan\" \nSubject: With record volume\nDate: March 28, 2012 3:58:59 PM EDT\nTo: \n\nAwesome news released! TRADE NOW!\nExplosive pick of 2012 for Our Members.\n\nDate: March, 28\nSymbol: I K_C_C .O B\nNow: $ .109\n\nI K_C_C .O B has all chances to climb over 300% within weeks! Follow I K_C_C O B!\n\nRecent hot press release is out:\n\nGameFaceGaming Inc (O T C: I K_C_C .O B, presented last week that since\nbeginning its Beta_Trials in 09.2011 and since releasing Ver. \u00a02 . 0 \u00a0in\nDecember of 2011, that it has successfully demonstrated the Company's\nopportunities to provide the newest and exclusive online social gaming\nexperience. Faceup Gaming is a legal non wagering online gaming platform.\n\nDon't lost your opportunity!\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "record_volume", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/Secret_Shopper", "text": "From: \"Secret Shopper Agent\" \nSubject: Secret Shopper\nDate: March 21, 2012 12:32:55 PM EDT\nTo: undisclosed-recipients: ;\nReply-To: \n\n\u00a0\nHi\n\u00a0\n\nWe have a mystery shopping assignment in your area.And your wages is $200 per assignment, the job entails evaluation process, visiting Walmart e.t.c.\nSend below information to get started.\n\n\u00a0\n__________________________________\nYour\u00a0 Full\u00a0 Name:\nAddress\u00a0 (NO.PO.BOX):\nCity\u00a0 /\u00a0 State\u00a0 /\u00a0 Zip\u00a0 Code:\nTelephone\u00a0 Number:\nThe\u00a0 current\u00a0 work:\n__________________________________\n\n\u00a0\nBest Regards,\nSecret Shopper\u00ae\nDaina Bruce (Member Agencies)\n", "mode": "written", "name": "Secret_Shopper", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/SEO", "text": "\n\n\nFrom: \"New Merchant Services\" \nDate: November 6, 2010 3:10:28 AM EDT\nTo: xxx@xxx.xxx\nSubject: SEO: Long Lasting Results that Boost Business\nReply-To: reply2tw@hokuunlimited.com\n\n\n\n \nNancy,\nWere you aware that nearly every purchase starts online today? Surveys show that 92.5% of adults said they research products online before buying them in a store. 62% of search engine users clicked on a search result within the first results page, while the other 28% clicked within the second or third page. Think of all the other listings beyond the third page that aren't being seen. Is your company one of those unfortunate results? If you aren't visible, your competitors certainly are. Making use of SEO will solve that problem.\nSEO (Search Engine Optimization) is the process of optimizing one's website to gain better results in search engines such as Google, Yahoo, or Bing.\nIt's a marketing technique that is definitely worth looking into because it yields long lasting results and is absolutely affordable. We guarantee results. Wouldn't you have the utmost confidence in a company that was founded by former Google, Yahoo, and Microsoft employees?\nTo hear more, visit us now.\nKind Regards,\nHoku Unlimited\u202816209 Victory Blvd 120\u2028Van Nuys, CA 91406\u2028(310) 742-7762\n\u00a0\nHoku Unlimited | (310) 742-7762 | 16209 Victory Blvd 120, Van Nuys, CA 91406\nVisit this link if you do not want any more messages.\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "SEO", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/SgtCassandra", "text": "\n\n\nFrom: Cassandra Roach \nDate: March 11, 2011 8:59:37 PM EST\nTo: undisclosed recipients: ;\nSubject: From Sgt Cassandra R!!!\nReply-To: cassie_roach@live.com\n\n\n\nHello Dear\n\u00a0\nI am Cassandra Roach\"\n\nA US Army and currently on deployment here in Iraq...\n\nI am from Austin, TX, I am also a former US Marine infantry, having served 12 active years with different infantry\nunits, from Camp Pendleton, CA. (1st battalion, 9th Marine Regiment, and 2nd battalion, 1st Marine Regiment) and Camp\nLejeune, NC (3rd Battalion, 6th Marine Regiment), I have a 3years old daughter living with my parent in Texas, I am the\nfirst born and daughter of my parent, I have a younger brother call Kelvin. I am presently serving in the Supply,\nLogistics and Relief Unit of the first Armour-ed Div of the US Army in Iraq .\n\n\u00a0As you maybe aware, we are constantly being attacked by insurgents and suicide Bombers.\n\nDuring one of the heavy attacks against our unit, my colleague Sgt Amanda and I managed to secure some fund which was a\npart of UNITED NATIONS relief package for displaced refugees.\n\nThe total amount is US$20 Million dollars in cash, mostly 100 dollar bills. We are in need of a reliable civilian of a\nnon American, in whose custody we can entrust this funds pending our disengagement from the front line.\n\nSgt Amanda and I agreed to send this email to you, just to inquire if you are the right individual to deal with in this\nmatter. Now we look forward to your prompt response to this, indicating your willingness or otherwise to work with us to\nsecure this fund for the good of the three of us.\n\nIn responding to this mail kindly furnish us with your personal details and direct contact details. So that we can go\nfurther to explain to you how we intend to get the funds to you and work out the basis of trust and understanding as\nwell as how to appropriate shares to each parties.\n\nLooking forward to read from you soon.\n\u00a0 \nRespectfully yours \nSgt Cassandra R. \n@ Bagdahd\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "SgtCassandra", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/ucb1", "text": "\n\n\nDate: \t, 7 Oct 2007 10:02:15 +0200\nFrom: \"Helga Duran\" \nReply-To: sylsapcihotelsvod@sapcihotels.com\nTo: xxx@xxx.xxx\nSubject: Last chance to supercharge your performance\n\n\n\nAt last, the real stuff - with no trickery! \nP.E.P. are piping hot at this time! \nThis is the true stuff not a fictitious one! \nOne of the very originals, totally unrivalled \nstuff is easy accessible at any place! \n\nRead just what people tell about this product: \n\"I love how rapidly your product affected on my boyfriend, \nhe can not stop babbling about how excited he is \nhaving such new calibre, extent, and libido!\" \nLusia R., Las Vegas \n\n\"In the beginning I decided the specimen parcel I got gratis was a kind of a nasty trick, \nuntil I have takento take the P.E.P. \nI can not describe depict how pleased I am \nwith the effects from using this stuff for 2 brief months. \nI'll be requesting regularly!\" \nSteve Burbon, New York \n\nRead more testimonials on this astounding product right here & right now! \nhttp://www.unatuol.com/?ograxzdtsp\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "ucb1", "class": "email"}
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{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/ucb12", "text": "\n\n\nFrom: \"Sonja Hurst\" \nTo: \nSubject: Bigger cock is not just an illusion\nDate: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 19:55:49 +0100\n\n\n\n\nRead one of the product testimonials:\"I just wanted to write thank you for making a system which really works. I have\ntried cock pumps, pills, stretchers and other devices but had no results and was desperate as my marriage was a total\ndisaster. Your Cock Growth Patch changed everything. For sure I will recommend it to my friends\".\n\nGreg, Gulf.Order our Cock Growth Patch and start a new life of success and happiness.\nhttp://wncsid.com\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "ucb12", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/ucb14", "text": "\n\n\nDate: \tSat, 3 Nov 2007 07:22:34 +0100\nFrom: \"Brittany Craft\" \nTo: xxx@xxx.xxx\nSubject: Legal software sales\n\n\n\n\nOur main purpose is to provide PC and Mac lawful soft and computer solutions of low price any could afford.\n Whether you're a corporate purchaser, a small enterprise holder,\n or shopping for your home personal computer, we think we'll assist you.\n HERE IS A LIST OF OUR SOFTWARE\n http://glygyhb.prooemsoft.net/\nMost demanding materials:\n*Quark Xpress v6.1 Passport: Retail price this day - $1560.00; Our just - $59.95\n *Microsoft Windows 2000 Server - Full Version: Retail price for today - $725.00; Our for this time - $59.95\n *Adobe Dreamweaver CS3: Retail price this day - $399.00; Our just - $59.95\n *Macromedia Fontographer 4: Retail price this time - $105.95; Our this time - $19.95\n *Microsoft Plus! for Windows XP: Retail price this day - $29.95; Our just - $10.95\n *Adobe Audition 2.0: Retail price for this time - $349.00; Our just now - $49.95\n *Adobe After Effects V 6.5 Professional PC: Retail price for this day - $699.00; Our just - $49.95\n *Adobe Encore DVD V 1.5 PC: Retail price for today - $700.00; Our for this day just - $49.95\n COME TO US!\n http://glygyhb.prooemsoft.net/\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "ucb14", "class": "email"}
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{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/ucb30", "text": "\n\n\nDate: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 22:42:51 GMT\nFrom: Kristin Chance \nTo: , \nSubject: Give your career a makeover with a new degree\n\n\n\n\n- Obtain a prosperous future, money-earning power, and the prestige that comes with havint the career position you've\nalways dreamed of.\n\n- Our Diplomas/Certificates are recognised in most countries and are well worth the investment.\n\n- These are real, genuine degrees that include Bachelors, Masters, MBA and Doctorate Degrees. They are fully verifiable!\n\nYou owe it to yourself to at least let us try and help you achieve your dreams.\n\nhttp://getyourprestigedegree.com\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "ucb30", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/ucb31", "text": "\n\n\nDate: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 20:16:59 -0400\nTo: xxx@xxx.xxx\nFrom: \"Audio@HigherEdHero.com\" \nSubject: Last Chance To Register: How To Build Donor Events On A Small Budget 7/9 Audio Conference\n\n\n\n\nDear Name,\n\nThere are only a few days left to register for:\n\n\"How To Build Donor Events On A Small Budget\"\nWednesday, July 9, 2008 1:00 - 2:00 PM (ET)\nhttp://HigherEdHero.com/events4F?ID=-397690791\n\nCreating Exceptional Donor Events On A Limited Budget \n** Secrets of underwriting: Sponsorship opportunities you may be missing\n** Ways to create an atmosphere of giving among donors\n** Keys to do-it-yourself projects: Which ones are worth doing?\n\nKeys to Effective Advertising: BIG Exposure, Minimal Cost\n** Effective marketing strategies that cost next to nothing\n** Bartering strategies that work: Where to focus your efforts \n** Best practices to make your advertising dollars stretch\n\nWorking Within Your Budget: How Much Is Too Much? \n** Keys to effectively break down your budget\n** How much money should you spend & where should you spend it? \n** Rain or shine: Having a great bottom-line no matter what the weather\n** Avoid the hidden costs: Often-forgotten pitfalls to avoid\n\n\n\nColleen McCourt is the Special Events Coordinator at Widener University and has\na wide array of event planning experience. Colleen is responsible for planning\nand coordinating Widener University events as well as overseeing groups that\nvisit the university to host gatherings. Ms. McCourt currently serves as the\nco-chair of the March of Dimes Salute to Excellence committee in Delaware\nCounty, PA where she continues non-profit planning and volunteering. Some of\nher accomplishments include:\n\n** While with the Union Hospital Foundation in Elkton, MD, Ms. McCourt planned \n and coordinated events such as large, black-tie fundraising dinners, a \n charity golf tournament, a wine tasting and festival and a 15,000 guest \n steeplechase known as the Fair Hill Races. \n\n** Ms. McCourt worked New Castle County's Carousel Park in Pike Creek, DE \n where she built a Client Management System to better streamline operations \n and once planned and coordinated an event for the children residing at the \n Ronald McDonald House in Rockland, DE. \n\n** Ms. McCourt received her Bachelor of Science in Business Management from \n Wilmington University, and an Associate of Science in Business \n Administration from Goldey-Beacom College. Colleen returned to \n Goldey-Beacom College to serve as the Chairman of the Board of Directors \n for Theta Phi Alpha and currently serves as the President of the Delaware \n Alumnae Association for the organization.\n\n\n\nHosted by Higher Ed Hero, this audio conference gives you the \nopportunity to add immediate, money-saving impact to your work \nenvironment that is:\n\nFAST - No wasted time here. Get right to the heart of the matter with \na 1-hour block designed to easily fit into your busy schedule. \n\nCONVENIENT - No airlines. No travel. No time out of the office.\nListen in from the comfort and convenience of your desk. \n\nEASY - A telephone is all the equipment you need. Just dial in, punch \nin your access code, and you're in. That's it. Follow along with the \naudio conference handouts provided in advance.\n\nACTIONABLE - Our audio conferences provide money-saving tactics you \ncan start using as soon as you hang up the phone.\n\nIDEAL FOR MULTIPLE LISTENERS - Use a speakerphone and as many people \nas you want can listen in - at no extra cost to you. These sessions \nare a cost-effective, time-efficient means of training Higher \nEducation professionals and staff, and reinforcing key issues in a \nfresh, new manner that they will remember and act on.\n \nAFFORDABLE - Priced at $199, a fraction of the cost of travel and \nattendance fees for a lengthy, high-priced conference or seminar. \n\n\"How To Build Donor Events On A Small Budget\"\nLive, 60-Minute Audio Conference **\nWednesday, July 9, 2008 1:00 - 2:00 PM (ET)**\n\nRegister now for this exciting event by clicking the following link \nhttp://HigherEdHero.com/events4F?ID=-397690791\nor calling 800-964-6033.\n\nWhen registering by phone please refer to your Priority \nCode: 90791\n\nAs usual we offer a full refund if not satisfied from now until\n7 days after the event.\n\nIf you do not wish to receive further notices about this conference, \nor future conferences, please click here\n\nhttp://HigherEdHero.com/events4F?ID=-397690791&OO=1&CG=HigherEd&DV=1\n\nPlease do not reply directly to this e-mail, as we are unable to \nprocess it. We sent this to you from a \"send only\" mailbox.\n\nI hope you'll join us.\n\nSincerely,\n\nHigher Ed Hero\n370 Technology Drive\nMalvern, PA 19355\n\nP.S. When registering by phone please refer to your\nPriority Code: 90791\n\nWhen registering by phone please refer to your Priority \nCode: 90791\n\nContactID#: -1893470211 \n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "ucb31", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/ucb4", "text": "\n\n\nDate: \tTue, 9 Oct 2007 30:03:47 +0800\nFrom: \"Eugene Lehman\" \nTo: xxx@xxx.xxx\nSubject: Dude check out this sweet site\n\n\n\nAfter all the genuine stuff - without ripoffs! \nP.E.P. are hot right this time! \nWell here comes the real thing not an imitation! \nOne of the very originals, totally unrivalled \nproduct is easy accessible at any place! \n\nRead what people tell on this stuff: \n\"I was really impressed how fast your stuff had an affect upon my boyfriend, \nhe can't stop jabber on how hot he is \nhaving his new calibre, extent, and libido!\" \nLusia R., Colorado \n\n\"In the beginning I thought the gratuitous sample package I acquired was a kind of a mean trick, \ntill I have taken taking the P.E.P. \nWords cannot report how pleased I am \nwith the consequence from using this stuff after 2 brief months. \nI will be asking for P.E.P. continually!\" \nSteve Burbon, Colorado \n\nCheck up more testimonials about this astounding product right here & right now! \nhttp://www.feraumo.net/?xybvhkqojo\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "ucb4", "class": "email"}
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{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/ucb41", "text": "\n\n\nDate: \tMon, 24 Sep 2007 13:48:52 -0400\nFrom: \"Citizens Bank Money Manager GPS Online Support\" \nTo: xxx@xxx.xxx\nSubject: Notice Of Business Change Citizens Bank Money Manager GPS Online\n\n\n\n\nMoney Manager - GPS: Online Form\t\n\t\t\t \n\t\t\tCaution:\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\tWe continue to be informed that customers and non-customers are \n\t\t\treceiving fraudulent phishing emails requesting confidential information \n\t\t\tand credentials. As a reminder, the bank will NOT send customers \n\t\t\tunsecured email or other correspondence requesting that they confirm \n\t\t\tor provide Customer ID\u00eds User ID\u00eds, card numbers, social security number \n\t\t\tor PINs and passwords. As always, if you receive any unsolicited e-mails,\n\t\t\tphone calls, faxes or other suspicious attempts to gain personal or\n\t\t\tconfidential information, please e-mail us at fraudprevention@cfgcustomers.com \n\t\t\tor call Cash Management Client Services at 1-877-550-5933, Monday to Friday, \n\t\t\t7 a.m. to 6 p.m. ET. For Additional information please see the events page.\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\tFollow this link to confirm your challenge questions:\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\tCitizens Bank Money Manager GPS Online \n\t\t\tServices\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\tSincerely,\n\t\t\tCitizens Bank Fraud Department \n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\u00a9 2007 Citizens Bank Online, Inc. All Rights Reserved\n\t\t\t Money Manager GPS and the Logo are registered marks of Citizens Financial Group, Inc. \u00a9 2007 Citizens Financial Group, Inc. All rights reserved.\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "ucb41", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/ucb42", "text": "\n\n\nDate: \tMon, 24 Sep 2007 18:08:36 -0300\nFrom: \"Tania Rosario\" \nTo: xxx@xxx.xxx\nSubject: Our present for your health\n\n\n\n\nAs our dearest client you may first of all examine our new I-net site! \nOnly primal quality drugs at a reasonable price!! \n20% warranted reduction is waiting for you!!! \nNotice what write our delighted customers: \nFrom: Skipper Lewis \nSubject: Simple thanx! \n\"Thanks much you granted to me holiday abatements & \nyour peculiar proposals that save me bucks and time, \nproposing only maximum quality drugs. \nYou are of my favourites, \nI'll inform about your store without fail all my friends!\" \n\nTake a note more gratitudes at our I-net site! \nhttp://cloudsit.cn/\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "ucb42", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/ucb43", "text": "\n\n\nFrom: \"Leigh Farr\" \nTo: \nSubject: Re: Thanks, we are ready to lend your company some cash regardless of Credit\nDate: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 17:26:07 +0500\n\n\n\n\nIf you have your own business and require IMMEDIATE cash to spend ANY way you like or wish Extra money to give the\nbusiness a boost or require A low interest loan - NO STRINGS ATTACHED, here is best deal we can offer you NOW (hurry,\nthis offer will expire NOW):\n\n$52,000+ loan\n\nHurry, when best deal is gone, it is gone. Simply Call Us Free on 877-292-6891\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "ucb43", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/ucb44", "text": "\n\n\nFrom: \"PayPal\"\nSubject: Dispute transaction\nDate: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 17:35:34 -0400\n\n\n\nThis email confirms that you have sent an eBay payment of $147.85 USD to \n achad13@yahoo.com for an eBay item. \n\n\n\n-----------------------------------\nPayment Details\n-----------------------------------\n\n\nAmount: $147.85 USD\n\nTransaction ID: 2LC956793J776333Y\n\nSubject: Digimax 130\n\n\n\n\n\nNote:\n\nIf you haven't authorized this charge ,click the link below to dispute transaction \nand get full refund\n\nDispute transaction (Encrypted Link )\n\n*SSL connection:\nPayPal automatically encrypts your confidential information\nin transit from your computer to ours using the Secure \nSockets Layer protocol (SSL) with an encryption key length \nof 128-bits (the highest level commercially available)\n\n-----------------------------------\nItem Information\n-----------------------------------\n\n\neBay User ID: scratchandgnaw2\n \n\n----------------------------------------------------------------\nEdward Harrell's UNCONFIRMED Address\n----------------------------------------------------------------\n\nEdward Harrell\n211 David St. \nSpringtown, TX 76082\nUnited States\n\nImportant Note: Edward Harrell has provided an Unconfirmed Address. If \nyou are planning on shipping items to Edward Harrell, please check the \nTransaction Details page of this payment to find out whether you will \nbe covered by the PayPal Seller Protection Policy. \n\n\n\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------\nThis payment was sent using your bank account. \n\nBy using your bank account to send money, you just:\n\n- Paid easily and securely\n\n- Sent money faster than writing and mailing paper checks\n- Paid instantly -- your purchase won't show up on bills at the end of \nthe month. \n\nThanks for using your bank account!\n\n\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------\n\nThank you for using PayPal!\nThe PayPal Team\nPayPal Email ID PP118\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "ucb44", "class": "email"}
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{"subclass": "spam", "text_id": "written/email/spam/ucb8", "text": "\n\n\nDate: \tFri, 2 Nov 2007 16:28:22 +0100\nFrom: \"Jerry Hanna\" \nTo: xxx@xxx.xxx\nSubject: Doctors and Celebrities endorse Anatrim\n\n\n\nAnatrim - The up-to-the-moment and most attracting product for corpulent people available - As seen on BBC.Can you\nremember all the cases when you said to yourself you would do any thing for being delivered from this fastly growing\npounds of fat?Happily, now no major offering is demanded.With Anatrim, the ground-breaking pound-melting blend, you can\nachieve healthier mode of life and become really thinner.Have a look at what our customers write!\n\n\"It's unbearably difficult to confess but I was an awful food addict. I greedily devoured all this trash and was unable\nto stop. This ruinous passion left off when I started course of taking Anatrim! Holy God, my appetite disappeared, mood\nincreased and I turned to the happiest person in the world 28 pounds in 2.1 months. So, I can tell you now I became the\nhappiest person!\"\n\nRita R., Boston\n\n\"Since my early childhood I was a bulky boy. You can't even fancy how I hated being ridiculed at school. I hated my\nstoutness and I detested myself. After trying many different remedies I heard about Anatrim. It literally took me out of\nthis nightmare!The very sincere thanks to you, my friends.\"\n\nSerge Smith, Boston\n\n\"You know what?Anatrim saved my marriage!I went into the circle, depression - eating more - just more depression.My wife\nwas thinking about the leaving me as I was turning in overweight psycho.My friend pointed at your web page and I ordered\nup pack of Anatrim at the time. The results I achieved were magnficent, my appetite came to acceptable level, I was in a\ngood mood oftener, and, certainly, I became able to tighten my belt on some holes.And you see me, the bed became cool\nalso!\"\n\nMike\n\nThere are lots of gratitudes left by happy people taking Anatrim.Why don't you join the thousands and thousands of\nslender customers and try this all-natural appetite suppressing energy boosting product now!Do not lose the opportunity!\nhttp://www.sodbrel.com/?vjiuthvkurj\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "ucb8", "class": "email"}
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{"subclass": "w3c", "text_id": "written/email/w3c/lists-003-2114716", "text": "\n\n\ndocno=\"lists-003-2114716\"\nreceived=\"Fri May 14 14:29:45 1993 EST\" \nsent=\"Fri, 14 May 1993 17:29:24 -0400\" \nname=\"Steve Summit\" \nemail=\"scs@adam.mit.edu\" \nsubject=\"Re: CHARSET considerations\" \nid=\"9305142129.AA22544@adam.MIT.EDU\" \ninreplyto=\"9305121752.AA00650@dimacs.rutgers.edu\" \n\nTo: TROTH@ricevm1.rice.edu, pine-info@cac.washington.edu\nCc: ietf-822@dimacs.rutgers.edu, ietf-charsets@INNOSOFT.COM,\n\n\n\n\nIn <9305121752.AA00650@dimacs.rutgers.edu>, Rick wrote:\n> Any user of Pine 3.05 (and as far as I can tell 3.07 or 2.x)\n> can shoot themself in the foot (head if you prefer) by setting\n> character-set = Zeldas_private_codepage.\n\nThis is almost certainly a bad idea, especially if (as Rick\nimplied in another part of the referenced message) the user can do\nso by setting a default charset value in a user configuration file\nsomewhere. (If users dink with the message headers themselves,\nall bets are off.)\n\n> Should the Pine developers remove this feature?\n\nI'm not sure what the feature in question is, but if it's\nsomething which lets users specify the value to be sent out as the\nMIME Content-Type: charset, I think it's a bad idea, and should be\nremoved or significantly altered.\n\nAn easy mistake to make (I speak from experience) is to assume\nthat the charset parameter on a MIME Content-Type: line encodes\nthe character set used by the entity composing the message, or\nthe character set to be used by the entity displaying the\nmessage. I find that the best way to think about charset is that\nit is *neither*. charset is an octet-based encoding used during\nmessage transfer; it need bear no relation to the composing or\nviewing character sets. In the most general case, a message will\nbe composed using some native character set, translated\nautomatically to a MIME-registered charset, and translated at the\nother end into a native display character set. It should be more\nlikely that the charset value be selected by an automaton, not by\na human.\n\n(If anyone finds the above paragraph startling, you're welcome to\nwrite to me for clarification. I'm not going to prolong this\nmessage with additional explanations right now.)\n\nIt's not necessarily *wrong* to think of charset as having\nsomething to do with the composing or viewing character set (in\nmany cases, not coincidentally, all three will be identical), but\nit is very easy to make conceptual mistakes, implement\nnonconformant software, or just generally misunderstand how MIME\nis supposed to work if you don't explicitly separate in your mind\nthe concepts of composing/viewing character sets and transmission\ncharsets. (You'll notice that I reinforce this distinction in my\nown head and in this message by using the terms \"character set\"\nand \"charset\" noninterchangeably.)\n\nThe charset situation is much like the canonical CRLF situation:\nthe fact that the canonical representation is identical to some\nbut not all of the available local representations guarantees\nmisunderstandings.\n\nTo be sure, automated selection of and translation to a registered\nMIME charset is a non-trivial task, and mailers which are trying\nto adopt MIME right away cannot be faulted for deferring\ndevelopment of such functionality for a while. However, just\nletting users specify non-default, non-7-bit-US-ASCII, (non-MIME)\ncharsets is an open invitation to misunderstanding and\nnoninteroperability.\n\nFor now, composition agents which wish to allow users to use\nextended character sets (such as Latin-1), but which elect to\nrelegate character set and/or charset selection to the user,\nshould either present the user with a menu of registered MIME\ncharsets from which to select (presumably it will be up to the\nuser to ensure that the editor or composition tool is actually\nusing a character set corresponding to the selected charset), or\n(in the case of what it sounds like PINE is doing) at least filter\nthe user's open-ended charset selection against the list of\nregistered values (and perhaps also the X- pattern).\n\nI've copied this message to the IETF character sets mailing list\n(ietf-charsets@innosoft.com, subscription requests to\nietf-charsets-request@innosoft.com); any followup traffic should\nbe sent there, and *not* to the ietf-822 list.\n\n Steve Summit\n scs@adam.mit.edu\n\nP.S. to pine-info@cac.washington.edu: despite my e-mail address,\nI'm actually in Seattle, near UW. I'd be glad to stop by one day\nand talk with you guys in person about this stuff.\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "lists-003-2114716", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "w3c", "text_id": "written/email/w3c/lists-003-2121270", "text": "\n\n\ndocno=\"lists-003-2121270\"\nreceived=\"Fri May 14 20:51:36 1993 EST\" \nsent=\"Fri, 14 May 1993 20:47:02 -0700 (PDT)\" \nname=\"Mark Crispin\" \nemail=\"mrc@Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM\" \nsubject=\"Re: CHARSET considerations\" \nid=\"MS-C.737437622.2035015474.mrc@Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM\" \ninreplyto=\"9305142129.AA22544@adam.MIT.EDU\" \n\nTo: ietf-charsets@INNOSOFT.COM, scs@adam.mit.edu\nCc: TROTH@ricevm1.rice.edu, pine-info@cac.washington.edu,\n\n\n\n\nSteve -\n\n \n Thanks for your comments. You needn't convince me; I've been involved\nwith the MIME charset issue for a long time (you'll note that I am one of the\nauthors of the ISO-2022-JP spec). In defense of the other Pine team members,\nthe sin is one of omission rather than of comission; they wanted to do\nsomething about character sets and didn't want to wire in a table of legal\nvalues (since it might change).\n\n I've suggested that as a first pass the charset should only be settable\nin the system config file, and that the charset always be coerced to US-ASCII\nunless the text contains 8-bit characters and/or has ``funny'' control\ncharacters such as ESC or SI/SO. More work would definitely be needed in this\narea, but you'll appreciate that there are other, higher priorities just\nnow...\n\n\n-- Mark --\n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "lists-003-2121270", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "w3c", "text_id": "written/email/w3c/lists-003-2125109", "text": "\n\n\ndocno=\"lists-003-2125109\"\nreceived=\"Mon May 17 09:16:46 1993 EST\" \nsent=\"Mon, 17 May 1993 09:06:59 -0700 (PDT)\" \nname=\"Laurence Lundblade\" \nemail=\"lgl@nwnet.net\" \nsubject=\"Re: CHARSET considerations\" \nid=\"Pine.3.07.9305170958.E23900-b100000@norman.nwnet.net\" \ninreplyto=\"MS-C.737437622.2035015474.mrc@Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM\" \n\nTo: Mark Crispin \nCc: ietf-charsets@INNOSOFT.COM, scs@adam.mit.edu, TROTH@ricevm1.rice.edu,\n\n\n\n\nI haven't followed this discussion, but Pine does do a few things with\ncharacter sets. For example if you set Pine to use ISO-8859-1 and send an\nall ASCII message it will tag it US-ASCII (instead of ISO-8859-1). Also,\nit's smart enough to display the lower 128 for all incoming messages in\nthe ISO-8859-X characters sets and greek the ones it can't if the\ncharacter set of the receiving Pine is US-ASCII or ISO-8859-X. Thought\nthat was what required for minimal MIME compliance.\n\nHope I haven't upgraded the sin from omission to comision....\n\nLL\n\n\nOn Fri, 14 May 1993, Mark Crispin wrote:\n> Steve -\n\n> Thanks for your comments. You needn't convince me; I've been involved\n> with the MIME charset issue for a long time (you'll note that I am one of the\n> authors of the ISO-2022-JP spec). In defense of the other Pine team members,\n> the sin is one of omission rather than of comission; they wanted to do\n> something about character sets and didn't want to wire in a table of legal\n> values (since it might change).\n\n> I've suggested that as a first pass the charset should only be settable\n> in the system config file, and that the charset always be coerced to US-ASCII\n> unless the text contains 8-bit characters and/or has ``funny'' control\n> characters such as ESC or SI/SO. More work would definitely be needed in thi\ns\n> area, but you'll appreciate that there are other, higher priorities just\n> now...\n\n> -- Mark --\n\n\n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "lists-003-2125109", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "w3c", "text_id": "written/email/w3c/lists-003-2129640", "text": "\n\n\ndocno=\"lists-003-2129640\"\nreceived=\"Mon May 17 15:10:42 1993 EST\" \nsent=\"Mon, 17 May 1993 15:05:50 -0700 (PDT)\" \nname=\"Mark Crispin\" \nemail=\"mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU\" \nsubject=\"Re: CHARSET considerations\" \nid=\"MS-C.737676350.662824084.mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU\" \ninreplyto=\"Pine.3.07.9305170958.E23900-b100000@norman.nwnet.net\" \n\nTo: Laurence Lundblade \nCc: ietf-charsets@INNOSOFT.COM, scs@adam.mit.edu, TROTH@ricevm1.rice.edu,\n\n\n\n\nHi Laurence -\n\n Perhaps all that is needed is a list in the system .pinerc file of all\nthe valid charsets, and not let the user set her charset to one that is not in\nthe list. So, perhaps Pine could have US-ASCII, ISO-2022-JP, and the various\nISO-8859-x sets wired in as an initial list, and the system file specify\nadditional valid sets?\n\n The concern is to avoid letting users do things like set it to things\nsuch as ``Latin-1'' or ``ASCII'' or similar bogons...\n\n What do you think?\n\n-- Mark --\n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "lists-003-2129640", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "w3c", "text_id": "written/email/w3c/lists-003-2133315", "text": "\n\n\ndocno=\"lists-003-2133315\"\nreceived=\"Tue May 18 09:14:52 1993 EST\" \nsent=\"Tue, 18 May 1993 09:12:46 -0700 (PDT)\" \nname=\"Laurence Lundblade\" \nemail=\"lgl@nwnet.net\" \nsubject=\"Re: CHARSET considerations\" \nid=\"Pine.3.07.9305180944.C193-a100000@norman.nwnet.net\" \ninreplyto=\"MS-C.737676350.662824084.mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU\" \n\nTo: Mark Crispin \nCc: ietf-charsets@INNOSOFT.COM, scs@adam.mit.edu, TROTH@ricevm1.rice.edu,\n\n\n\n\nYes, I think that's exactly right. We can probably adjust the comment in\nthe .pinerc for now. In the long term the .pinerc needs a lot of good\nerror checking. It just hasn't been done because limited resources.\n\nLL\n\n\nOn Mon, 17 May 1993, Mark Crispin wrote:\n\n> Hi Laurence -\n\n> Perhaps all that is needed is a list in the system .pinerc file of all\n> the valid charsets, and not let the user set her charset to one that is not i\nn\n> the list. So, perhaps Pine could have US-ASCII, ISO-2022-JP, and the various\n> ISO-8859-x sets wired in as an initial list, and the system file specify\n> additional valid sets?\n\n> The concern is to avoid letting users do things like set it to things\n> such as ``Latin-1'' or ``ASCII'' or similar bogons...\n\n> What do you think?\n\n> -- Mark --\n\n\n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "lists-003-2133315", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "w3c", "text_id": "written/email/w3c/lists-003-2137010", "text": "\n\n\ndocno=\"lists-003-2137010\"\nreceived=\"Tue May 18 18:52:44 1993 EST\" \nsent=\"Tue, 18 May 1993 15:31:15 -0500 (CDT)\" \nname=\"Rick Troth\" \nemail=\"TROTH@ricevm1.rice.edu\" \nsubject=\"Re: CHARSET considerations\" \nid=\"01GYBXHRZVEA8Y5JAE@INNOSOFT.COM\" \ninreplyto=\"scs@adam.mit.edu\" \n\nTo: scs@adam.mit.edu, pine-info@cac.washington.edu, ietf-charsets@INNOSOFT.COM\nCc: dan@ees1a0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu\n\n\n\n\nOn Fri, 14 May 93 17:29:24 -0400 Steve said:\n>In <9305121752.AA00650@dimacs.rutgers.edu>, Rick wrote:\n>> Any user of Pine 3.05 (and as far as I can tell 3.07 or 2.x)\n>> can shoot themself in the foot (head if you prefer) by setting\n>> character-set = Zeldas_private_codepage.\n\n>This is almost certainly a bad idea, ...\n\n Although I used this to defend my action of having used an\nillegitimate CHARSET, I do NOT think that all \"user can shoot\nthemself in the foot\" features are bad. Specifically, I feel\n(quite strongly) that the user should be able to specify any old\ncharset and have display at least attempted at the other end.\n\n The long term solution is, of course, to map between\n\"character sets\" (which the use should have control over) and\n\"charsets\" (which the user should leave alone).\n\n My only request of Pine from all this noise is that Pine\nNOT LABEL messages of Content-Type: text/plain.\n(this may be counter to RFC 1341; is it?)\n\n>> Should the Pine developers remove this feature?\n\n No.\n\n> charset is an octet-based encoding used during\n>message transfer; it need bear no relation to the composing or\n>viewing character sets.\n\n Right. I maintain that CHARSET specification should be\nomitted when feasible. This is because there are such things as\ngateways which translate the SMTP octet-stream into anything.\n\n There are two goals: 1) to be able to specify new and/or\nextended character sets (and mark-ups and other extensions to plain text)\nand 2) to use \"plain text\" (in mail) as a transport medium.\nFor the former, use Base64 encoding when needed. For the latter,\ndon't label the text \"ASCII\" or any other codepoint mapping if there's\nany way on earth that it might get translated by a gateway.\n\n I don't think this is making sense and I can't find the words.\nSteve apparently has: charset -vs- character_set.\n\n Plain text is defined differently from system to system.\nOn UNIX, plain text is ASCII (now ISO-8859-1) with lines delimited by\nNL (actually LF). On NT, plain text is 16 bits wide (so I hear).\nThat ain't ASCII, though we could be the high-order 8 bits for much\nof plain text processing, and that's fine by me. (memory is cheap)\nOn VM/CMS, plain text is EBCDIC (now CodePage 1047) and records are\nhandled by the filesystem out-of-band of the data, so NL (and LF and CR)\naren't sacred characters. Now ... \"mail is plain-text, not ASCII\".\n\n> In the most general case, a message will\n>be composed using some native character set, translated\n>automatically to a MIME-registered charset, and translated at the\n>other end into a native display character set.\n\n Right! 99 times out of 100 you don't care, but there's that\n1% of the time when you've called it US-ASCII and it's NOT anymore,\nalthough it *is* still legitimate \"plain text\".\n\n> (You'll notice that I reinforce this distinction in my\n>own head and in this message by using the terms \"character set\"\n>and \"charset\" noninterchangeably.)\n\n Thanks. That helps.\n\n>The charset situation is much like the canonical CRLF situation:\n>the fact that the canonical representation is identical to some\n>but not all of the available local representations guarantees\n>misunderstandings.\n\n Right! And this thinking, carried into MIME (thus this\nshould be kicked BACK TO the IETF-822 list, but I refrain), shows up\nin the use of CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 rather than CHARACTER_SET=Latin-1.\nIf you specify \"Latin-1\", then you can (must; I'm arguing for a\ndefinition here, not an explanation) assume that SMTP will carry it\nas ISO-8859-1, BUT THE RECEIVING (or sending) HOST MIGHT NOT.\n(and yes, sad but true, any SMTPs will strip the high bit)\n\n>To be sure, automated selection of and translation to a registered\n>MIME charset is a non-trivial task, ...\n\n Yes. Which is why I want routers, gateways, and all MTAs\n(mail transfer agents) to stay out of it. That's why I ask that\n(today, 1993) we NOT LABEL true plain text as US-ASCII/ISO-8859-1.\nJust leave it alone and let it default at the receiving end.\n\n> and mailers which are trying\n>to adopt MIME right away cannot be faulted for deferring\n>development of such functionality for a while.\n\n And let me reiterate that I'm not mad at the Pine developers\n(nor the MIME developers; not mad at anyone, just trying to push a\npoint that I think is important and has been missed). I'm very pleased\nwith Pine. It can almost replace RiceMAIL.\n\n Steve, it's obvious from your distinction between character set\n(set of characters) and charset (encoding of characters) that you\nunderstand this issue. Thanks for making up and using those labels!\n\n> Steve Summit\n> scs@adam.mit.edu\n\n--\nRick Troth , Rice University, Information Systems\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "lists-003-2137010", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "w3c", "text_id": "written/email/w3c/lists-003-2144868", "text": "\n\n\ndocno=\"lists-003-2144868\"\nreceived=\"Tue May 18 20:20:31 1993 EST\" \nsent=\"Wed, 19 May 1993 12:17:09 +0900 (JST)\" \nname=\"Masataka Ohta\" \nemail=\"mohta@necom830.cc.titech.ac.jp\" \nsubject=\"Re: CHARSET considerations\" \nid=\"9305190317.AA01493@necom830.cc.titech.ac.jp\" \ninreplyto=\"01GYBXHRZVEA8Y5JAE@INNOSOFT.COM\" \n\nTo: TROTH@ricevm1.rice.edu (Rick Troth)\nCc: scs@adam.mit.edu, pine-info@cac.washington.edu, ietf-charsets@INNOSOFT.COM,\n\n\n\n\nI don't know what pine is.\n\nBut, could you please discuss on pine specific features in pine ML\nonly?\n\n Masataka Ohta\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "lists-003-2144868", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "w3c", "text_id": "written/email/w3c/lists-003-2148080", "text": "\n\n\ndocno=\"lists-003-2148080\"\nreceived=\"Wed May 19 04:11:33 1993 EST\" \nsent=\"Wed, 19 May 1993 13:07:45 +0200\" \nname=\"Harald Tveit Alvestrand\" \nemail=\"harald.t.alvestrand@delab.sintef.no\" \nsubject=\"Re: CHARSET considerations\" \nid=\"\"10241*/I=t/G=harald/S=alvestrand/OU=delab/O=sintef/PRMD=uninett/ADMD=/C=no/\"@MHS\" \ninreplyto=\"01GYBXHRZVEA8Y5JAE@INNOSOFT.COM\" \n\nTo: Rick Troth \nCc: scs , pine-info ,DMD=/C=no/\"@MHS>\n\n\n\n\nRick Troth writes:\n> Plain text is defined differently from system to system.\n>On UNIX, plain text is ASCII (now ISO-8859-1) with lines delimited by\n>NL (actually LF). On NT, plain text is 16 bits wide (so I hear).\n>That ain't ASCII, though we could be the high-order 8 bits for much\n>of plain text processing, and that's fine by me. (memory is cheap)\n>On VM/CMS, plain text is EBCDIC (now CodePage 1047) and records are\n>handled by the filesystem out-of-band of the data, so NL (and LF and CR)\n>aren't sacred characters. Now ... \"mail is plain-text, not ASCII\".\n\nPlease, gentlemen.....read the RFC.\nAs long as you send mail over the Internet, claiming MIME compatibility,\nthe bits on the wire have to conform to the MIME convention, *NOT* to\nthe local convention, whatever that is.\n\nThe omission of a character set label from text/plain\nMEANS THAT THE CHARACTER SET IS US ASCII.\n\nA message that contains characters with the high bit set CANNOT BE US-ASCII,\nand therefore, a text/plain message without a charset= label in it\nthat has such characters IS NOT LEGAL MIME.\nSo, when SMTP strips the 8th bit, it gets what it deserves.\n\nThis was ******NOT******* an oversight. This was deliberate design,\ndesigned to promote interoperability. The proliferation of mail in strange\ncharacter sets without labels is *exactly* one of the things that the MIME\neffort was meant to *remove*.\n\nEnd of flame..............if you want a couple of tons more, read the\narchives of the SMTP and RFC-822 groups. The last flareup is hidden under\n\"unknown-7bit\" and \"unknown-8bit\" discussions.\n\n Harald Tveit Alvestrand\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "lists-003-2148080", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "w3c", "text_id": "written/email/w3c/lists-003-2152883", "text": "\n\n\ndocno=\"lists-003-2152883\"\nreceived=\"Wed May 19 07:16:36 1993 EST\" \nsent=\"Wed, 19 May 1993 10:11:53 -0400 (EDT)\" \nname=\"Dan Schlitt\" \nemail=\"dan@ees1a0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu\" \nsubject=\"Re: CHARSET considerations\" \nid=\"Pine.3.05.9305191050.G5139-a100000@ees1a0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu\" \ninreplyto=\"CHARSET considerations\" \n\nTo: Harald Tveit Alvestrand \nCc: scs , pine-info ,\n\n\n\n\nThank you Harald. MIME is MIME is MIME. And if it violates the RFC it\nisn't MIME and shouldn't pretend to be.\n\nThat was the point of my original cryptic comment. Now PLEASE edit my\naddress out of the headers of this. And probably all of those other\nmailinglists and limit to pine-info. PLEASE.\n\nThankyou.\n\nDan Schlitt School of Engineering Computer Systems\ndan@ee-mail.engr.ccny.cuny.edu City College of New York\n(212)650-6760 New York, NY 10031\n\n\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "lists-003-2152883", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "w3c", "text_id": "written/email/w3c/lists-003-2171003", "text": "\n\n\ndocno=\"lists-003-2171003\"\nreceived=\"Thu May 20 12:57:41 1993 EST\" \nsent=\"Thu, 20 May 1993 21:56:14 +0200\" \nname=\"Keld J|rn Simonsen\" \nemail=\"keld@dkuug.dk\" \nsubject=\"Re: CHARSET considerations\" \nid=\"199305201956.AA28105@dkuug.dk\" \ninreplyto=\"lgl@nwnet.net\" \n\nTo: Laurence Lundblade ,\nCc: ietf-charsets@INNOSOFT.COM, scs@adam.mit.edu, TROTH@ricevm1.rice.edu,\n\n\n\n\nLaurence Lundblade writes:\n\n> Yes, I think that's exactly right. We can probably adjust the comment in\n> the .pinerc for now. In the long term the .pinerc needs a lot of good\n> error checking. It just hasn't been done because limited resources.\n\nAll of the RFC 1345 character sets are registered for MIME use.\nThat should be able to cover most needs.\n\nKeld\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "lists-003-2171003", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "w3c", "text_id": "written/email/w3c/lists-003-2173878", "text": "\n\n\ndocno=\"lists-003-2173878\"\nreceived=\"Mon Jun 21 10:40:25 1993 EST\" \nsent=\"Wed, 16 Jun 1993 15:13:52 +0200\" \nname=\"Borka Jerman-Blazic\" \nemail=\"jerman-blazic@ijs.si\" \nsubject=\"IETF BOF\" \nid=\"1149*/S=jerman-blazic/O=ijs/PRMD=ac/ADMD=mail/C=si/@MHS\" \ninreplyto=\"\" \n\nTo: WG-CHAR \n\n\n\n\nThe timing for the BOF will be announced soon. I am enclosing the\napproved version of the charter.\n\nRegards,\n\nBorka\n\n\n==================\n\n\nErik and IESG members,\n\nI believe that the revised charter defines most of the issues and\ndefines them well. I believe that the number of issues to be covered in\none BOF session to be somewhat intimidating. However, our criteria for\nthis BOF should be that it helps illuminate and define the problem and\nadvances the understanding needed to define WGs, and I think it is more\nlikely to do that than anything else we are likely to come up with. And\nit is \"only\" a BOF and does not commit us to long-term action until we\nsee the outcome and Borka's minutes.\n\nLet's go with it.\n john\n\n \n------ revised draft charter ---------\n\n The Universal Character Set Standard (UCS) in Networked Services\n\n or\n\n Can We Think About Real Multilingual Networking?\n\nWe are in the process of building global directory systems and other\ninformation services on the global Internet. In many parts of the world it is\nseen as essential for the success of the global services that they should be\nable to recognize, store, and present textual information like personal and\norganizational names, represented in the character sets used by those\nconcerned. This means that the Directory must be able to handle national\ncharacters not found in the US-ASCII repetoire. The same applies to the other\nglobal information services on the network (e.g the data bases used in many\ninformation servers). This is especially a problem as information services are\nprovided for clients on various difference hardware architectures.\n\nCurrently, for the Western European languages at least 5 different encodings\nare in use on the network: ISO-7 National Variants, ISO 8859/1, ROMAN8, T.61,\nand RC850. (See RFC1345 for further information on these character sets.) If we\nconsider the other scripts used in Europe and the other encodings the number of\ndifferent charater set codes rise to as many as 40. This is the real (and\nmessy) world we live in. Changing the character sets in this world is not an\noption, as current systems run applications which can support only the\ncharacter sets used by that system.\n\nHowever, a universal encoding has begun to appear: UCS (ISO 10646). Initial\nexperience with this solution has been positive. However, there are still\nmany issued to be addressed in the context of ISO 10 646 and the other\ncharacter set codes, which will exist on the Internet in the future:\n\n\n(1) Can we agree on some common network services/model for character set\n handling?\n\n(2) Should a general-purpose SW tool be designed that will support both\n UCS and regional character sets?\n\n(3) Is there a solution that will make character set convertors for diffrent\n codes \"plug-and-play\" (i.e. an API) without specifying the actual\n underlying implementation? Can we use UCS as a common denominator for that?\n\n(4) Is it necessary to have a document identifying the language and the\n character sets which cater for particular language?\n\n(5) If we need to solve these problems and UCS (ISO 10 646) is the\n only available general option today which is maybe close to be\n sufficient, can we start with UCS and make minimal\n changes or specifications which will be sufficient for our needs. Can we\n discuss the missing agreement/specifiactions required in the\n communication protocols such as:\n\n(5.1) The order of octets in the interchange of data is left to be specified\n by the sender and the recipient in UCS. What are the \"sender\" and\n \"recipient\" on the Internet? Can we define a mechanism to\n identify the serialized byte order of a data stream?\n\n(5.2) Additional encoding mechanisms for the UCS have been proposed. Do these\n schemes have any merit?\n\n(5.3) Some amount of profiling may be necessary for UCS use in some countries,\n do we need to specify that globally or we can leave it to particular\n region to be solved as regional matter?\n\n(5.4) Do we need to differentiate or specify how tagged data (i.e the field typ\ne\n in a data base)and how \"serialized byte order\" data are treated in a\n communication protocol or will some common specification for the tag and\n the type be sufficient?\n\n\nThe goal of the BOF is to test the interest for the various issues.\nIf possible a clear set of issues could be identified then WG(s)\nwill be defined.\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "lists-003-2173878", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "w3c", "text_id": "written/email/w3c/lists-003-2180740", "text": "\n\n\ndocno=\"lists-003-2180740\"\nreceived=\"Mon Jun 21 11:37:15 1993 EST\" \nsent=\"Mon, 21 Jun 1993 14:36:41 -0400\" \nname=\"Chris Weider\" \nemail=\"clw@merit.edu\" \nsubject=\"Re: IETF BOF\" \nid=\"9306211836.AA18241@merit.edu\" \ninreplyto=\" IETF BOF\" \n\nTo: WG-CHAR@rare.nl, ietf-charsets@INNOSOFT.COM\n\n\n\n\nBorka, Hi!\n I'd like to request that the scheduling for the Character Set BOF be done\nso that it does not conflict with any of the other information service working\ngroups (IIIR, IDS, OSI-DS, URI, for example) as I and I suspect most of the\ninformation service people feel we *need* to attend this BOF. The interest\nwill be quite high, I think. Thanks for getting this together.\nChris Weider\nMerit Network, Inc.\nChair, IIIR\nCo-chair, IDS\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "lists-003-2180740", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "w3c", "text_id": "written/email/w3c/lists-003-2183485", "text": "\n\n\ndocno=\"lists-003-2183485\"\nreceived=\"Tue Jun 22 18:50:42 1993 EST\" \nsent=\"Wed, 23 Jun 1993 10:49:08 +0900\" \nname=\"Eiiti Wada\" \nemail=\"wada@u-tokyo.ac.jp\" \nsubject=\"Re: Who knows about 10646 escape sequences?\" \nid=\"9306230149.AA28724@sino.syslab.iias.flab.fujitsu.co.jp\" \ninreplyto=\"Who knows about 10646 escape sequences?\" \n\nTo: ietf-charsets@INNOSOFT.COM\n\n\n\n\nHarald Tveit Alvestrand :\n\n>Who knows if ISO 10646 has been assigned numbers and escape sequences?\n\nEscape sequences are assigned by the Registration Authority, and the\n Registration\nAuthority is now with ECMA.\n\nSo, ask Mr. van den Beld of ECMA about the current situations of ISO 10646\n escape\nsequences.\n\nHis e-mail address is:\n\njan.van-den-beld@ecma.ch\n\n\nEiiti Wada (wada@u-tokyo.ac.jp)\n\n\n\n", "mode": "written", "name": "lists-003-2183485", "class": "email"}
{"subclass": "w3c", "text_id": "written/email/w3c/lists-003-2205935", "text": "\n\n\ndocno=\"lists-003-2205935\"\nreceived=\"Fri Jul 9 09:47:54 1993 EST\" \nsent=\"Fri, 09 Jul 1993 18:25:04 +0200\" \nname=\"Andr'e PIRARD\" \nemail=\"PIRARD@vm1.ulg.ac.be\" \nsubject=\"Thoughts about characters transmission\" \nid=\"01H0C1LQB78Y8WWAUK@INNOSOFT.COM\" \ninreplyto=\"Tue, 6 Jul 93 20:10 GMT\" \n\nTo: \"Robert G. Moskowitz\" <0003858921@mcimail.com>, ietf-charsets@INNOSOFT.COM,\n\n\n\n\nI have not much time to spend on this subject, but I would have felt bad\nnot to express these opinions once.\n\nI have learned with much interest that people envision solutions for\ninternational characters data exchange with a wider point of view than\nusually heard in the networking sphere.\nI have been spending quite a time of my life with such problems.\