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I don't like the discussion point about in frame flying being a skill. Given the number of other variables involved, it is just a silly discussion. Camera field of view, camera position, space available, and amount of time available to film footage all factors into this greatly. Don't insult people with a different camera and flying spot that flying in frame is a universally equal skill.

I like to see everyone fly. I like to see everyone improve.

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Gee thanks Obi, when you say "I enjoy seeing everyone else fly", what you're really saying is... I like seeing everyone get better but I don't want them to put any effort into improving their standards/skills.... Wow, that's an interesting view on things, very ummm.... Emo of you....

When I say that most folks I know enter a video that meets the criteria, I mean exactly that. It has nothing to do with improving their skills or not, it has to do with what videos are sent to VF. Talk about reading comprehension. Sheez.

They don't have time to film or screen hours of video for their 'best' minute. They go out, they film a clip or two, edit it and send it. Most often, it's not the particularly great flying so much as the starting from the ground and staying in frame parts that determine what is sent.

A REAL competition puts everyone on the spot on the same day, in the same wind, at the same place...in so far as this is possible. VF meets none of these requirements whether you like it or not.

That's why I think smack talk is really counter to what VF is all about.

You meant it all in good fun. Fine. You win. Talk all the smack you want.

obi

Logged

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." L daVinci

They don't have time to film or screen hours of video for their 'best' minute. They go out, they film a clip or two, edit it and send it. Most often, it's not the particularly great flying so much as the starting from the ground and staying in frame parts that determine what is sent.

Very true point. I did have some better footage for last round but was out of frame a bit too much to think it would be allowed and a few others I know didn't even enter for this reason. This round however I think Yan has a good take on the rule and will be fair.

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A REAL competition puts everyone on the spot on the same day, in the same wind, at the same place...in so far as this is possible. VF meets none of these requirements whether you like it or not.

Also true and real comp judges score based on skill level, conditions flown in and how well you did in those conditions as well as kite choice. If winds are so light that all you can do is side slide, a few flic-flacs and maybe an axel because your flying a STD, then your judged on that and we can all admit that VF is not judged this way by everyone. There is not a set judging criteria for VF and everyone has their own benchmarks. This is the very reason I can't agree with prizes for wining and prefer the random draw. It's still a fun "showcase" style competition and I plan on entering every round I can. It gives guys like me something to shoot for even if its only bragging rights and an off chance at a prize instead of solo flying all the time as well as another reason to strive to improve and on that level its a good thing. Not to mention the fellow fliers I have got to meet from all over the world through this.

This round however I think Yan has a good take on the rule and will be fair.

Meaning what exactly ? That it hasn't been fair before ?

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Also true and real comp judges score based.... kite choice.

They really shouldn't you know. I judged a bit at "real" comps., right up to the World Sport Kites Championship, and this Does Not Happen. In VF all scores are whatever you feel like, for whatever reason.

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This is the very reason I can't agree with prizes for winning and prefer the random draw.

As has been suggested elsewhere by a double winner.... a prize for winning, main prize randomly. It's usually been thus.

Everyone should feel free to take VF as seriously or as lightly as they see fit. If you want to construct and practice a routine (and it's been done) then go ahead. If you want to prop a 'phone up against your man-bag and grab a last minute entry of erratic flailiing, with the "wrong" kite in the "wrong" winds flying embarrassingly poorly by your standards - entries go to the same address.

[at this point I implore all to look at the length of my post, you have been warned, and now informed.... Any bleeding from the brain that may occur is now your responsibility ]

One more time.... And it's only cos I'm on holidays and the wind weather is not conducive for flying.

Obi, sometimes it's helpful to clear up discussions that are becoming 'circular' by having a look at some of the words we are using and then make sure that all parties are comfortable with their 'defined' meanings...

skill (skl)n.1. Proficiency, facility, or dexterity that is acquired or developed through training or experience. See Synonyms at ability.2.a. An art, trade, or technique, particularly one requiring use of the hands or body.b. A developed talent or ability: writing skills.3. Obsolete A reason; a cause.

competition [ˌkɒmpɪˈtɪʃən]n1. the act of competing; rivalry2. a contest in which a winner is selected from among two or more entrants3. a series of games, sports events, etc.4. the opposition offered by a competitor or competitors5. a competitor or competitors offering opposition6. (Life Sciences & Allied Applications / Environmental Science) Ecology the struggle between individuals of the same or different species for food, space, light, etc., when these are inadequate to supply the needs of all

hemisphere [ˈhɛmɪˌsfɪə]n1. (Mathematics) one half of a sphere2. (Earth Sciences / Physical Geography)a. half of the terrestrial globe, divided into northern and southern hemispheres by the equator or into eastern and western hemispheres by some meridians, usually 0° and 180°

feel free to inform me if either are unacceptable, BUT, I will ask you to provide another for consideration.

I don't like the discussion point about in frame flying being a skill.

See definition [skill].

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Given the number of other variables involved, it is just a silly discussion.

but you won't leave it alone....

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Camera field of view, camera position, space available, and amount of time available to film footage all factors into this greatly.

Correct but still doesn't change the fact it's a skill, in fact it proves my point given the supplied definition.

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Don't insult people with a different camera and flying spot that flying in frame is a universally equal skill.

It would appear you're the only one insulted. Why you have taken personal offence is truly beyond my comprehension... And yet here your are now saying that these things are a 'skill' at last you put it in a sentence, and in it's correct place

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I like to see everyone fly. I like to see everyone improve.

I really do believe you, but you have such a strange way of encouraging improvement, but enough of that dead horse.... he's had enough I suspect.

This was my bit

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Gee thanks Obi, when you say "I enjoy seeing everyone else fly", what you're really saying is... I like seeing everyone get better but I don't want them to put any effort into improving their standards/skills.... Wow, that's an interesting view on things, very ummm.... Emo of you....

Obi again...

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When I say that most folks I know enter a video that meets the criteria, I mean exactly that.

Yep that'd be how you make a valid entry.

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It has nothing to do with improving their skills or not, it has to do with what videos are sent to VF.

"Their skills", are therefore good enough to turn out an entry that 'fulfills the entry requirement'. Isn't that just assuming that all entrants have at least your mates skill level, a bit presumptive of you, don't you think?

As has been oft said by others, in the beginning of learning to control a kite we all struggle with the ability to put the kite where we want to put it in the sky. For the example of a VF entry...'keeping it in the frame', is, in essence, the same thing... again read the definition on 'skill'....

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Talk about reading comprehension. Sheez.

:'(

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They don't have time to film or screen hours of video for their 'best' minute. They go out, they film a clip or two, edit it and send it.

Hmmm where to go with this...

a/ We could talk about how seasons work and why we have a word like hemisphere... ah wait a sec, time for a new definition... OK it's up. This might even help you with your apparent resentment for me being in a summer season or do you just not like the shape of the island (true Slartibartfast didn't get any awards for 'The Great Ocean Road' but someone should have ) Cos what I'm reading in these comments is that you don't think that long cold winters are conducive to a quality VF entry because the weather and amount of light is just plain &%#*house to work with... Mate what I'll say to this is SEASONS CHANGE!! DON'T WORRY THE SUN WILL COME BACK, but for now we have it

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b/My mates and I just do it to have an entry in so that they may win a kite, they don't try too hard because the chance of winning the good prize is the same...

Ooooo I'd so hope this wasn't a common attitude, believe it or not but it cost's me (and others I guessing) quite a bit for web bandwidth, and downloading the entries is not a minor cost to me. I'd hate to think this was 'just some lark' for too many people, maybe your mates can speak up and confirm or deny this?

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Most often, it's not the particularly great flying so much as the starting from the ground and staying in frame parts that determine what is sent.

Ummmm yep, it's called putting together a valid (do I need to get another definition for you??) entry. I don't know of anyone who has said "I just did my best flying ever in this VF entry"... So ummm welcome to being human....

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A REAL competition puts everyone on the spot on the same day, in the same wind, at the same place...in so far as this is possible. VF meets none of these requirements whether you like it or not.

And yet Obi, it's the only compatition available to us in the southern hemisphere. You might find yourself a little spoilt for choice as to which one you'll enter, but mate down here this one is pretty much the only gauge we have to where we're at. Do we bitch and moan about it? All I've ever asked is that people make an effort to put in their best effort, jeez mate, I'm not ordering you to... I'm just asking...

But if you're not one who likes to overextend ones self (and by my reading of it this is the post you have chosen to belligerently tie your banner to ) then mate, there's SFA I can do about it.

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That's why I think smack talk is really counter to what VF is all about.

That's fine, your opinion 'unless'...

You say something like, um, well this..

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You meant it all in good fun.

In which case, if you KNEW it was ALL IN GOOD FUN.... why the **** did you keep going on and on about it??

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Fine. You win. Talk all the smack you want.

Ummmm it was 3 lines of text some 2 pages ago Obi, it's now a little more than that, check back, you made it about all the other stuff.... Why, I will never know.... Clarity isn't your strong suit obviously.

This round however I think Yan has a good take on the rule and will be fair.

Meaning what exactly ? That it hasn't been fair before ?

VF17 was my first round so before that I really can't say except that all past entries I have seen there were pretty much NO oof's. THe only thing I can say is due to the longevity up to now you had to have done a fair job of running it or people wouldn't have kept entering. My judgement here was based on Yan's comments after last round and I like his take on the rule.

They really shouldn't you know. I judged a bit at "real" comps., right up to the World Sport Kites Championship, and this Does Not Happen. In VF all scores are whatever you feel like, for whatever reason.

I heard differently talking to a few judges at a couple comps I went to this year but I'll concede this point.

Everyone should feel free to take VF as seriously or as lightly as they see fit. If you want to construct and practice a routine (and it's been done) then go ahead. If you want to prop a 'phone up against your man-bag and grab a last minute entry of erratic flailiing, with the "wrong" kite in the "wrong" winds flying embarrassingly poorly by your standards - entries go to the same address.

The clue's in the subtitle....

Mike.

Hence the "FLY YOUR WAY". Its all in fun for me and all I expect is for my flying to improve along the way. If I win something then great if not I still had a good time.

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