From the AP, via USA Today: “A 15-year-old girl has been arrested for taking nude photographs of her self and posting them on the Internet, police said. … She has been charged with sexual abuse of children, possession of child pornography and dissemination of child pornography.”

What’s next, arresting a 14 year old boy caught masturbating for child molestation?

This entry was posted by hossman on Tuesday, March 30th, 2004 at 1:56 pm and is filed under the_law.
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They were NAKED pictures of a minor, meaning it _IS_ child pornography. Though I’m not too sure that her parents should be let off the hook, even if they didn’t know.

True, the child took and spread the pictures. However the complete lack of parenting ability which allowed this to happen is simply criminal.

This is quite a bit different from “arresting a 14 year old boy caught masterbating for Child Molestation”. The key thing here is that it isn’t spread on the internet for gratification purposes of others.

Remember, sex with children is wrong. Achieving sexual gratification using pictures of minors is wrong. Dissemination of such materials is wrong. What this girl did is wrong.

Hopefully her perdicament sets an example for other children who are doing this, without causing her too much trauma.

“possession of child pornography” … uh, okay … well, I guess *technically* you can arrest her for this, … but it seems a little weird considering the pictures were of herself; I mean, If i have comprimising photos of myself, can i be arrested for “intent to commit extortion” against myself?

“sexual abuse of children” … now this one is total bullshit. How exactly does a person sexually abuse themself? If she had run away from home, would they have arrested her for kidnapping herself?

Well, being somewhat familiar with the legal system, perhaps I can educate you. What the police do is toss on as many charges as they can cook up. The defense then deals with the prosecution to get charges dropped and whatnot.

Most likely she’ll end up with a misdemeanor charge of dissemination of child porn and some stiiff fines. Had the other charges not been there, she’d get the charges and only a light/no fine.

Sadly, the legal system is like a car dealership. Each side gives and takes when it comes to a plea bargain. Obviously, the more the prosecution starts with, the more they’ll end up with.

As far as you “extortion intent” comparison, no. The prosecution would have to have proof you were trying to extort yourself. May sound nuts, but there have been cases of schizo’s doing this. Obviously you can’t disseminate child porn without having it. The possession charge is just logical.

The “sexual abuse of children” probably stems from something else. Remember, she was giving these away in chat rooms. Depending on how she was chatting with other minors, she could have been sexually abusing them (or instructing them to sexually abuse themselves).

Keep in mind that these news organizations are only getting the bare bones facts themselves. There’s far too little known at this point for those of us not involved to hail this as “the fall of society as we know it.”

This is absurd. I completely disagree with a_stupid_box’s assertions that this is somehow wrong. Since when has it been “wrong” to take pictures of yourself and give them to others? Who CARES who received the pictures? It was her choice. Tough. You live with your damn choices; normally the morality police don’t arrest you for it however.

This girl may end up with a sex offender’s record for the rest of her life. Regardless of what you moral puritans say, that is SICK and DISGUSTING treatment of a juvenile. Not only is it draconian, it’s the State-authorized abuse of minors for their own self righteous moralistic purposes.

I also disagree that sex with “children” is wrong. It is NOT wrong to have sex with someone you love regardless of their age. 15 year olds are perfectly capable of consent when it suits them. I consented to sex when I was 13.

The statements “sex with children is wrong” and “achieving sexual gratification using pictures of minors is wrong” seem _very_ different.

How do the acts someone undertakes in the absence of this minor affect the minor? And if they’re without effect, what makes them wrong?

Would you also find it wrong for someone to achieve sexual gratification from pictures which were not actually of minors, but purported to be? What about from drawings of minors which were created by an adult?

Those of you who say there’s nothing wrong with sex with a minor are sick. There is a REASON that the term “age of consent” exists. To the guy who “consented” when he was 13 — no, you didn’t.

Children do stupid crap. I’m sure that everyone did stuff as children they wouldn’t do now. Be that eating dirt, believing in Santa Claus, picking on other kids, or something else. Children make BAD decisions, as the guy above who had sex at 13 years of age proves.

If you’re no more emotionally mature as an adult than you are as a 13 year old, then you’re a waped person. Enough ADULTS can’t handle the emotional implications of sex, how can a child?

And for Mr. “Tell me, what sort of proof did they have for claiming “sexual abuse of children”? ” you need to read what I write:

“The “sexual abuse of children” probably stems from something else. Remember, she was giving these away in chat rooms. Depending on how she was chatting with other minors, she could have been sexually abusing them (or instructing them to sexually abuse themselves).

Keep in mind that these news organizations are only getting the bare bones facts themselves. There’s far too little known at this point for those of us not involved to hail this as “the fall of society as we know it.”

I can pretty much guarantee that the authorities have more evidence than the news organizations have and are presenting. Sheesh, you’d expect people here to be a little bit more intelligent than to take everything the read or watch on TV at face value.

“How do the acts someone undertakes in the absence of this minor affect the minor? And if they’re without effect, what makes them wrong?”

onan — easy. Someone had to have taken the pictures, which is at the expense of a child. Why do you think merely the possession of child pornography is wrong? By your argument, it isn’t.

“Would you also find it wrong for someone to achieve sexual gratification from pictures which were not actually of minors, but purported to be? What about from drawings of minors which were created by an adult?”

1) That’s why there are juries. No, I personally don’t think it’s wrong if the pictures aren’t _actually_ of those below the age of consent.

2) Drawings are a lot different than photographs as no child has to be involved.

The box forgets that adults make just as many, if not more, bad decisions than do children. Throughout history, you don’t see children being responsible for the Spanish Inquisition, the Holocaust, subway vigilante justice, the Cold War, or any other number of inhumane acts upon society. He speaks as if children are inherently stupid when they are not. Children are amazingly smart.

In addition, different experiences and circumstances will allow different people to mature at different rates. It works like a bell curve, not like a line graph. You have some people who are going to be capable of making adult decisions at ages 12 and 13 and others who will not be able to made such decisions until they are well into their 30s. Some people will never mature.

We preach abstinence to our children in hopes that they will make “mature sexual decisions,” but we never educate them about sex. So many children are never given “the talk” by mom or dad. They find out about sex from their peers at school, some of whom will be mature about it and others who will have learned about sex from the Playboy site. We treat sex as if it is this horrible taboo subject. It is not. Sex is a beautiful thing that should be shared by two people who love each other. Schools often times skip over sexual education, and even when they do not, it mainly boils down to teaching where the reproductive organs are, what their functions are, and the gender-specifics of puberty. The legal system would not have to be so overly-concerned about placing stipulations on “consensual age” if parents and schools would do their jobs and educate our students.

Welcome to intent. Before the system hauls off and accuses this girl of the charges against her, they really should find out why she was sharing the pictures and what those who received the pictures intended to do with them.

Instead of looking for a location to place blame, look for a way to solve the problem.

I’m not here to judge whether or not what she child did is wrong, I think it’s it’s a stupid thing to do and she shouldn’t have done it BUT arresting and charging her for it is ridiculous! Do you think kids in high school don’t get something like that shoved in their faces at least once during high school? Also, the article specifictly said that she was giving the photos away to the people she met in CHATROOMS, do you think that the people who talked to her was doing anything that they didn’t really want to do? Even if she put it up on a website, do you think that the people who visited the website are not finding what they were looking for in the first place?

Yes, I do think that forcing or coercing a minor into giving his/her naked photographs away is wrong, but what happened here was her personal choice. She decided to give those images away, it’s a stupid thing to do, but it can’t be much more than that. No one was harmed or hurt. It’s as criminal as a simple “flash”. Charging her for it as a criminal matter is ridiculous, I repeat, RIDICULOUS!

This whole entire topic is quite stupid. Why does being 18 automatically entitle you to do whatever you want? how can we say after a certain amount of days after birth can determined what and what you are not allowed to do. I think a person can do whatever they want as long as its not physically hurting someone. Sex is fine too, I was almost arrested because my girlfriend was 17 and 10 months or something around there and I was 18. We got caught prior to any fully sexual activities by the local police *I really hate them, all I’ve gotten were a bunch of tickets, that which i just described, and lots of harrasment* fuck the system

Im a teen and if you dont think that we havent see naked pictures..whoa your in for some news!…High school is rough, we see almost everything, hear almost everything. If this girl wanted to show everyone naked pictures of herself, well then let her show em’, its her body and its her choice. What about playboy?!? Adults can do it but this girl cant? Whats that all about?!?! This world is screwd up in itselft,and to the_stupid_box…THAT NAME FITS YOU PRETTY WELL…adults make more bad decisions that any child could ever make, people have the right to make there own dicisions and thats a fact, what ever happend to freedom in this world?!?! You know that song, WHERE IS THE LOVE?!?!?! Yea well what happened to it, this world has gone bizurk lately and do you think the children have anything to do with it?? nope, we cant vote yet, thats all up the adults…they dont let us teenagers vote!!

It is ridiculous that they want to arrest and charge her. Mistakes happen, kids CAN be stupid SOMETIMES, not all the time, but just sometimes. And i think its crude to arrest and charge her, they should be arresting and charging her parents. Thats what needs to happen. Thats what they have parental control for, im going to be 16 and i cant get into any chatrooms or get any pictures from anyone. And i cant send pictures of myself either to anyone or anything..thats what parental controls do. HHHHEEEELLLLLLOOOOOOO PEOPLE…get a freakin clue. people can be so itiotic sometimes.

But however…she shouldnt get charged, wherever her parents are, they should be.

I think arresting the 14 year girl for taking photos of herself and posting them on the net is obsurd. However it is not the police’s job to step in, obviously she consented to the phots being taken and putting them around the world as she did it herself. And it is not like she had taken the photos of other children and possesed them, they were photos of herself, what are the police going to do in the future, lock up parents for taking photos of their children in the bath. Its outragous and wrong, the girl is obviously old enough to know what she is doing so, leave the poor girl to herself. You should be arresting those who downloaded her photos.

Well running accross this topic is probably one of the most incredible coencidences I have ever seen. The legal system as well as moral governments seem to exist to make money. This is obviously a publicity stunt. Fines and tials and all that will follow for this girl are only there to scare her. Who ever back there said fuck the system has it pretty well right!! The law is wrong. A minor who decides to take pictures of her self and post them all over the internet is simply making a choice her parents are legaly responcible for that choice.
The system piles charges on her to scare her into accepting the plea bargan and condeming her perminent record to hell. The law doesn’t care about the children or the people it is ther to protect. It’s sole purpose is to make money. That girl will be far more tramatized by the system than she would have been if a real pedifile had actualy started requesting pictures from her. Her whole life will be put on display for everyone to examin and make judgements about. The social distruction that she will suffer will haunt her for most of her life and she will always be a joke in her community.
Stupid_box, is this the law that is on your side? When a child makes a stupid desision and her parents either let her or don’t know about it, do they deserve to have their world crumble around them? I know of several abuse and sex related cases involving minors. In ever single one of them the familys of all parties involved suffer major trauma at the hands of the system.

How hard do you think it is for a 12 year old girl to have concentual sex with her brother? how common do you think it is? I don’t have an answer to this but I can tell you that if it isn’t rape and it isn’t violent then chances are the whole experiance is a lot less traumatic than you might think. Then the system steps in and all of a sudden a good feeling and a warm cuddle with her brother turns into a very ugly nasty evil violation of her rights. The thoughts and feelings that follow are devistating. Rape kits are collected and she is violated further.
People have learned to put monsters faces on people who commit sexualy related crimes with minors. Unfortunaly they also paint a sad wounded face on the victum. The players in the systems grand game are not even human anymore. They have been turned into a monster who molested a helpless little victum. The next time you hear about a molestation case take a closer look. Try to immagin the situation how it could have happened. Then realize that the monster is a person who made a mistake, and in most cases the victum is a person who loved and still loves that “monster.” Think about how she feels about what happened and how she feels about her molester.
If you have kids you know that they fight. Even older ones and younger ones seperated by many years will still fight. So when the older one knocks the younger one down and he cuts his keen, he gets angery at the older one. The younger sibling may even say angery things and throw around accusations. Do you really think that this type of hurt is any different than a molestation case befror society blows the incident out of context? Sure its wrong, sure it was a bad thing. Does the family want to send one of their children to prison for 8 years over it though? does that abused sister never want to see her brother again ? Well I have never been part of a family that had abuse problems, but I have know several. All I can say is that if society were to allow the monster and the victome to just be a little girl/boy and a man/woman/boy/girl with a human face the outcome would be very different.

Look at this issue from a human standpoint. The 14 year old girl was doing this for attension of some kind. This was a problem that should have been noticed by her parents. The attension she was getting from the chatrooms was just filling in a void that should have had some other type of attension there. If she was getting some kind of gratification from helping other kids get their rocks off I hardly believe this to be child molestation especialy over the internet. Kids can go to any pron site and read about a thousand ways to pleaseure themselves and the porn sites are all still in business so obviously that isn’t child molestation. I even know of a few sites that speak directly to teens about sexual and masturbation techniques. Minors having sex with minors of similar age regardless of that age is not a crime if it is done consentualy. taking naked pictures of your self is not a crime. If anything an adult who recieved the naked pictures and didn’t dispose of them immediatly would be guilty of posession of child porn. The adult is responcible in all cases. If the girl were to send her own naked pictures to other minors who agreed to accept it and even wanted it and even recieved some sexual gratification from it I fail to see how that would be any different than thoes two actual minors phisicaly engaging in sexual relations. Therefor all of the legal aligations against the girl are either illfounded or missplaced. She was not legaly responcible for her actions and her actions were not outside of the law.

Quoting
“The box forgets that adults make just as many, if not more, bad decisions than do children. Throughout history, you donâ€™t see children being responsible for the Spanish Inquisition, the Holocaust, subway vigilante justice, the Cold War, or any other number of inhumane acts upon society. He speaks as if children are inherently stupid when they are not. Children are amazingly smart.”

Just because children didnt cause holocaust, the spanish inquisition and the cold war does not mean they are responsible nor that they should be able to post nude pictures of themselves on the internet. They didn’t create those tragic events b/c they are children and don’t have enough power or resources to do anything thing like that. That is just flawed logic.
I do agree though that children mature at different rates. My great grandma for instance, was married at age 14 I believe. Times are different now and thing like that are looked down upon now. But that still is no excuse for this 15 year, who may be very mature, for posting nude pictures of herself on the internet. It is illegal and for a reason. Child pornography is illegal because essentially it is a expressed desire by the looker to have sex with the person pictured. If the person pictured is a child then it would be saying that you want to rape the person if you are 18 years or older. Child porn is illegal because the government does not want 30 year old men wishing they were raping 15 year old girls, that is just a bad thing. Now if they looker was a 15 year old boy i do not think that would be near as a big of deal.
Now why she was arrested is b/c she is the one putting these pictures out. She is posting nude pictures of herself a child on the internet which is illegal no matter who you are so she was arrested, simple as that. The police were just doing their job. I dont know about the other charges but im sure she will just get a fine and a warning from the judge. If they sent her to jail it would be very wrong and i would be very angry b/c it is not really that big of a deal.
Basically i dont think its really that big of a deal no matter how you look at it.

This is all just moronic. If a minor so wishes to post sexually suggestive and/or nude photographs of herself on the internet, nobody can tell her otherwise. The really isn’t a way to stop unless you lock her up for the rest of her life, but that too would be very idiotic. Society has become more close-minded than need be. Of course, most of society fails to realize while on our little dirt ball called earth, where children being sexually active or suggestive is outlawed and shunned upon, there is another universe similar to ours where laws, socially acceptable actions, and even skin color are different. Quite possibly in that universe these actions would be considered normal behavior and embraced, but sadly that doesn’t matter being as all life will eventually cease to exist and morals will be a forgotten relic on this planet. This minor was trying to enjoy what little time she has on this mud ball, and if it is so wrong of an act, may your God strike her down. Maybe adults should learn to enjoy their life like children.

The words moronic, close-minded, flawed logic, etc. could easily describe the majority of the view points on this page. Jexdragon, wake up before noon, start thinking and learn something. Your oppinion is twisted, examples obtuse, and concepts flawed. Liberal mush!
Laws are made to protect not just the individual, but the community. If no charges were pressed then the authorities can’t seize and use the information on her computer. They’re less interested in her than they are the people searching for her. This misguided youth will hopefully get the message. As a minor here record can/will be expunged at the age of 17/18 depending on the state law. As to the people that try to access these fragile kids-I say seek and destroy them. Go visit the post office and view the number of missing children if you need to understand why it was important to make the move the local authorities made. I wish the best for the child involved and help run a shelter for kids that come from homes like this…those that need council or a place to be safe.

Well heres the thing, there is a fine line here…you cant really confuse illegal with immoral…i mean u can, but what is illegal is pretty set in stone, what is immoral is a matter of personal opinion. I mean most of the rest of the world think we are absolutly backwards nuts rediculous or all of the above…what is illegal in this country is not illegal or of any consequence in most other countries…so you cannot say that it is immoral when other countries would not even waste 3 seconds or 3 dollars on! so illegal does not equal immoral. Now murder is immoral AND Illegal everywhere on the planet, backed up by what most people consider the source of all judgments on crimes and such which is the bible…no where have i ever seen anything in the bible about age restrictions on sex or sexuality…why??? Uhhh gee let me see, because its a biological function of the body that actually happens around puberty which around the age we are speaking of here and is mostly uncontolable…not to mention is there anything really in any bible or religion or any of these moral sources that even mention the existance of AGE at all??? I mean if you think about it, it is really meaningless and entirley man made, its a way men have devised to mark the passage of time, but like our monetary system, it really has no backing or value. laws that attempt to govern biological functions are overstepping boundries of humanism. Age cannot govern our biological reactions, some may not have the same reactions as others just as some people do not develop an addiction to chemical substances, and ive known plenty of minors with chemical dependancy. I understand laws that try to protect but most sex offender laws are designed to shame and degrade. Seeking and destroying people who have biological desires that are not the norm and they probably dont understand just makes it more likely that there will be violence added to the crime as secrecy is desired. Just as the junkie has to do his thing in the closet because it is not socially acceptable or legal but yet still desired…its so easy for people to search and destroy but no one will take the time or effort to help, we are just all our little Hitlers exterminating to make the perfect race…