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I would actually go with Lewis here. Seau was more flash than substance. Lewis did it all in his prime. Made every tackle. No one ever escaped that guy. He closed the gaps as good as anyone. He hit like a truck. He made plays on the ball. He got to the quarterback. And he LEAD his team. He put people in the right spots. He motivated them. Made them accountable. Made them better. Guy is a living legend

And with ALL that said; as much as I admire the guy and sing his praises.......he wasn't even the best player on his own team. You ask me who's the best defensive player I've seen the last 10-15 years?

Ed Reed

Ed, motherfucking Reed is the most impactful defensive player I can remember since Lawrence Taylor. The fact that the Ravens have had him AND Lewis together all these years, as well as guys like Siragusa, Adams, Suggs, Woodson, McAslister, Ngata etc, is retarded and just plain unfair

Snyder and Jones are very similar in their approaches. Spend, Spend, Spend. Do whatever it takes to try and put a winner on the field. In recent years, the difference is that Snyder finally realized he doesn't know a damn thing about football. Instead of putting Yes man in leadership roles and making the decisions, he hired Shanahan and Bruce Allen and gave them full control. Shanahan told Snyder it was a 5 year project and he needed to completely strip the entire team in order to start building a winner and don't even think about hiring him if you were going to get involved or attempt to fire him after a few seasons. Snyder has had no say in anything that goes on and no longer speaks to the media unless it's a special occasion. The first 2 years were brutal but now it's finally paying off. I know Jones has been doing this for a very long time but I think it's time he takes a step back as well. It's just very strange that he has weekly radio spots and speaks to the media at every opportunity.

Jerry Jones is pretty clear that he will always be involved and its his team. On the Jimmy Johnson "Football Life" episode those clips of Jones say all that needs to be said - he's a billionaire and this is his toy. He doesn't care who likes it and he loves football. I can see his point as if I was a billionaire football owner, I would want to be involved and enjoy my team. I think the major problem is Jason Garrett and Jones being so loyal to him. Garrett is NOT a good head coach and the Cowboys are suffering through his period. Reminds me of the Chargers mismanaging an extremely talented team and fans watching as the window closes.

Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. ~Elvis

I would actually go with Lewis here. Seau was more flash than substance. Lewis did it all in his prime. Made every tackle. No one ever escaped that guy. He closed the gaps as good as anyone. He hit like a truck. He made plays on the ball. He got to the quarterback. And he LEAD his team. He put people in the right spots. He motivated them. Made them accountable. Made them better. Guy is a living legend

And with ALL that said; as much as I admire the guy and sing his praises.......he wasn't even the best player on his own team. You ask me who's the best defensive player I've seen the last 10-15 years?

Ed Reed

Ed, motherfucking Reed is the most impactful defensive player I can remember since Lawrence Taylor. The fact that the Ravens have had him AND Lewis together all these years, as well as guys like Siragusa, Adams, Suggs, Woodson, McAslister, Ngata etc, is retarded and just plain unfair

Seau was more flash than substance? I have no idea what that means but its wrong. He was a DOMINANT player on some fairly weak defenses and could play both inside and outside. He was less effective by the time he got to New England but he was also in his 17th season.

Seau and Lewis are very similar - big, fast, great tacklers, leaders of their teams and awesome in the post season. Everything you say about Ray Lewis above is EXACTLY what anyone would say about Junior Seau. Opinions differ but I have never heard anyone question the sheer awesomeness of Junior Seau.

I think they are both great and two of the best to ever play linebacker.

Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. ~Elvis

Ray Lewis has been my favorite non-Chiefs football player for years and as bummed as i am in hearing he's retiring i am 100000x more pissed to hear he is signing a deal with ESPN and won't be immediately becoming the greatest Defensive Coordinator in NFL history.

the Chiefs are about to sign Andy Reid. with Reid i believe Vick will follow. i am 100% down for that and REALLY hope it happens.

Seau was more flash than substance? I have no idea what that means but its wrong. He was a DOMINANT player on some fairly weak defenses and could play both inside and outside. He was less effective by the time he got to New England but he was also in his 17th season.

Seau and Lewis are very similar - big, fast, great tacklers, leaders of their teams and awesome in the post season. Everything you say about Ray Lewis above is EXACTLY what anyone would say about Junior Seau. Opinions differ but I have never heard anyone question the sheer awesomeness of Junior Seau.

I think they are both great and two of the best to ever play linebacker.

Stats (both played 13 years, these stats are 4 regular season/reference is profootballreference.com):

So based on those numbers Seau was better going up the field to get the QB (although he needed more games to do it) while Ray was the greater sideline to sideline player who also caused more disruption in terms of INT and FF/FR.

Numbers are in Lewis's favor and I don't think anyone ever questioned Ray's leadership while Seau was shipped out. Bottom line is the argument is between two all time greats but the numbers bear out that Ray was the better overall player.

So based on those numbers Seau was better going up the field to get the QB (although he needed more games to do it) while Ray was the greater sideline to sideline player who also caused more disruption in terms of INT and FF/FR.

Numbers are in Lewis's favor and I don't think anyone ever questioned Ray's leadership while Seau was shipped out. Bottom line is the argument is between two all time greats but the numbers bear out that Ray was the better overall player.

My point was in response to Patsox comment about Seau. I had season tickets to the Chargers for Seau's entire career and watched the guy play, so I think a correction was noted. Believing Ray Lewis is better is fine with me since Ray is awesome. The stats show they were both incredible. Seau took a mediocore defense to the playoffs multiple times while Lewis was an anchor on a defense that has been awesome for his entire career, and won a Superbowl. BTW - Seau played 19 years and I think Lewis 17.

As for Seau being "shipped out"? He had already played 13 years, was 36 and coming off surgery. He didn't want to restructure his contract at a time when the Chargers were struggling and he asked to be released or traded. John Butler, the Chargers GM, had just passed away days before Seau was traded and AJ Smith was running the show w/ Marty as head coach. Neither Marty or AJ Smith wanted Seau and they also cut Rodney Harrison during the off season. That was extremely poor management by the Chargers front office but I don't see anything that happened as a detraction from Seau's leadership or hall of fame career.

Outside of Patsox and now you, these are the first two times I have ever heard people questioning Seau. No player that ever played in the NFL would agree with either of you so I'll leave it at that

Last edited by ocmmafan; 01-03-2013 at 08:49 PM.

Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. ~Elvis

My point was in response to Patsox comment about Seau. I had season tickets to the Chargers for Seau's entire career and watched the guy play, so I think a correction was noted. Believing Ray Lewis is better is fine with me since Ray is awesome. The stats show they were both incredible. Seau took a mediocore defense to the playoffs multiple times while Lewis was an anchor on a defense that has been awesome for his entire career, and won a Superbowl. BTW - Seau played 19 years and I think Lewis 17.

As for Seau being "shipped out"? He had already played 13 years, was 36 and coming off surgery. He didn't want to restructure his contract at a time when the Chargers were struggling and he asked to be released or traded. John Butler, the Chargers GM, had just passed away days before Seau was traded and AJ Smith was running the show w/ Marty as head coach. Neither Marty or AJ Smith wanted Seau and they also cut Rodney Harrison during the off season. That was extremely poor management by the Chargers front office but I don't see anything that happened as a detraction from Seau's leadership or hall of fame career.

Outside of Patsox and now you, these are the first two times I have ever heard people questioning Seau. No player that ever played in the NFL would agree with either of you so I'll leave it at that

Ok you want truth? Seau to me was the master of the half tackle. Guy was awesome but I have never seen another player who would jump in on tackles as much as Seau did to make sure he got a high tackle number in a game. And for some reason the league rewarded it. Its like the guy who jumps in on the QB after someone else was in the process of bringing him down and getting credit for half a sack. Seau (and I watched his whole career too) was a master at it...and that doesn't mean all bad, because it means he was on the spot to do so but I think his charging up the field as much as he did hurt his defense as much as it helped it. There is a reason why the Chargers let him go...and it wasn't all because of the injury.

To put it in perspective for you could you even imagine the Ravens trading away Ray Lewis or just letting him go? Hell no. Know why? Because that guy was as important in his leadership role as he was dominating on the field. If you put Junior and Ray on the same team Seau would get dominated by Ray's leadership/will. All there is to it...

Ok you want truth? Seau to me was the master of the half tackle. Guy was awesome but I have never seen another player who would jump in on tackles as much as Seau did to make sure he got a high tackle number in a game. And for some reason the league rewarded it. Its like the guy who jumps in on the QB after someone else was in the process of bringing him down and getting credit for half a sack. Seau (and I watched his whole career too) was a master at it...and that doesn't mean all bad, because it means he was on the spot to do so but I think his charging up the field as much as he did hurt his defense as much as it helped it. There is a reason why the Chargers let him go...and it wasn't all because of the injury.

To put it in perspective for you could you even imagine the Ravens trading away Ray Lewis or just letting him go? Hell no. Know why? Because that guy was as important in his leadership role as he was dominating on the field. If you put Junior and Ray on the same team Seau would get dominated by Ray's leadership/will. All there is to it...

Oh god, stfu. Find some Charger players or any NFL players that ever said ANYTHING negative about Seau - you can't. Why? Because he was a beloved leader by everyone. Why were coaches and players always voting the guy into the pro bowl?

Your opinions are always so fcking stupid. Junior Seau being questioned as a leader? One of your dumber posts in a legendary career of really fcking stupid posts. Congrats on continuing to cement your title as forum jackass.

Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. ~Elvis

Oh god, stfu. Find some Charger players or any NFL players that ever said ANYTHING negative about Seau - you can't. Why? Because he was a beloved leader by everyone. Why were coaches and players always voting the guy into the pro bowl?

Your opinions are always so fcking stupid. Junior Seau being questioned as a leader? One of your dumber posts in a legendary career of really fcking stupid posts. Congrats on continuing to cement your title as forum jackass.

Classic. Offer up a differing opinion and get butthurt and start hurling insults. Grats I guess - sorry if someone said something to tarnish your view of your God Seau. Great player, but not Ray Lewis. Sorry if that gets your buttcheeks all clenched up.