From a hitting prospective, this organization does not know how help hitters make adjustments.

Travis Hafner even when healthy, is completely a pull hitter.

Grady sizemore- never made adjustments. He kept swinging as hard as he can- just like duncun. Sizemore clearly had more talent, but talent will only get you so far.

How long has this organization had trouble with soft tossing lefties? it goes back further than this year. The only guy that made adjustments was victor martinez= he was just a pure hitter.

We don't have enough talent and we don't make adjustments. The top of our lineup is good but the fact that carlos santana is well into this 2nd season of sub. 250 hitting is concerning. He is clearly not living up to expectations and without him, no trade is going to help this lineup.

We have nothing to offer to make a trade. Chisenhall- done for the season. We have nothing in akron and columbus to trade.

The only trade assets we have are francisco lindor and ???????? Unless we are going to sign asdrubal to another extension, we don't have another viable option at SS. and with the indians' track record of keeping players healthy, we are going to need lindor.

OUr only way to fix the lineup is for carlos santana to start hitting. Right now, we are getting piss poor play at catcher, 1B, 3B, LF, and DH. That is too many holes. If santana keeps hitting this poor, we will be a .500 team this year. Nothing is going to change that.

I have read comparisons of cord phelps being another jeff kent and jack hannahan being a core player/viable option at 3B for a few years. Those who believe that are setting themselves up for big disappointments.

Jason Kipnis has really brought energy and production to this lineup, but it isn't enough. Our top 3 hitters- choo, asdrubal, and kipnis are good in their spots, but you can't ask them to carry the team. They aren't that type of hitter.

People like geronimo critcize other posters, (rather rudely) , but there are no viable options.

This team looks like a team that can compete for a while but what helped this team compete for the playoffs in 2005 and 2007 was the long winning streak in late august and september that propelled this team to first place contention. What helped detroit last year was the long winning streak they went on.

Does anybody think this team can go on a long winning streak with carlos santana hitting .220? hitters 4-9 in the lineup are enormous holes and no team can win consistently. For this team to win, we are going to need alot of luck. We are going to need santana, hafner and grady all to come back and hit. What are the chances of that happening?

Pork Chop Pough wrote:With Carlos Lee being traded to the Marlins, if the Indians do have any interest in buying low on Gabby Sanchez, now would be the time to do so.

Don't get me wrong. I would be intrigued with getting Sanchez on this team. We have to remember, the Marlins might not be looking to move Gaby this year. They could be waiting to see what happens not only this year, but what they need after this year. At the same time they could be looking to rebuild Gaby's value. The question becomes how much would we need to give up to get Miami to part with Gaby's this month.

Considering what the Marlins gave up, they might be looking for items the Tribe either doesn't have or can't afford to give up.

Bearcatbob wrote:IMO - Marson is becoming the catcher. Santana has to become something else.

Bob

I don't forsee a position change. I do see the DH spot in the lineup potentially being open a lot more next season however. Manny Acta has said in the past he doesn't like being limited by having a non fielder being the exclusive DH (obviously not those words exactly) so Santana could easily see a lot of time there next year when he's not on the field.

I see Gabby Sanchez is being blocked in Miami, at least for the rest of this year. You'd think Miami would at least listen on him...but then again, Carlos Lee is only there for the rest of this season.

Wonder if Ty Wiggington is a fit. If the Indians really has interest in Kevin Youkilis (which I think was overblown, just a hunch though) then Wiggington then sort of makes sense. Of course the Phillies would have to go into seller mode first.

Don't look now, but I think Marson may have won the starting catching job. At the halfway point in the season he's leading the Indians in batting average (.295) and OBP (.394). Who could have predicted that?

He's also a better defensive catcher than Santana, who is really having an awful season. Last year he hit 27 HR's; at the halfway point he has exactly five. He's hitting .218. His OPS is .670, over 120 points lower than Marson's .792.

The Indians offense is much better without Santana and his .218 BA in the middle of the lineup. He's been a rally killer this year. Since he's been out the scoring has really picked up.

I don't know what Santana's problem is. The Indians have been trying to fix him but so far no luck. The biggest falloff is his right-handed hitting. Last year he hit .315 right-handed; this year he's at .197. IOW, from Victor Martinez to below the Mendoza line in one season. His average from the left side is a little better than last year, but the power is gone.

I'd say Santana has been without a doubt the most disappointing player on the team based on his production versus what was expected. Damon and Kotchman have also disappointed, but I didn't expect much from them.

I don't know what to do with Santana except to platoon him at first with Kotchman or at DH with Hafner, but even then he only plays against lefties, which is every five games or so. And then he's hitting right-handed.

But it's ridiculous to bench Marson after he hit .383 in June and is continuing his hot hitting right into July. I wonder if Marson is lucky or if he figured something out. He's hitting an astonishing .314 against right-handed pitching. From 2009-2011 he hit .187 against righties. How can he have improved so much? Or is it just a fluke?

Was it a fluke that Santana hit .315 against right-handers last year?

If I were Manny I'd keep Marson at catcher and work Santana into the lineup wherever I can for now. When he's not playing he can get in extra work in the batting cages. His swing, timing, and balance are all messed up. He's not even close to getting hits.

After falling behind 0-1 in the count, he's hitting .181. Get strike one on him and he's pretty much done.

After falling behind 0-2 he's hitting .125 (5-for-40). He has no ability to work his way back into the count and get a hit.

After falling behind 1-2 he's hitting .206.

Even when he gets ahead 2-0 he's only hitting .184 (7-for38). You'd think he would have an advantage when up 2-0, but he's just as bad as when he's down in the count.

If he plays at all he should be in Kotchman's spot since there's no way you sit Marson or Hafner. I say put him at first base after the AS break and give him a chance to work his way out of it without having to worry about calling a game or handling the pitchers.

Prosecutor wrote:Don't look now, but I think Marson may have won the starting catching job. At the halfway point in the season he's leading the Indians in batting average (.295) and OBP (.394). Who could have predicted that?

He's also a better defensive catcher than Santana, who is really having an awful season. Last year he hit 27 HR's; at the halfway point he has exactly five. He's hitting .218. His OPS is .670, over 120 points lower than Marson's .792.

The Indians offense is much better without Santana and his .218 BA in the middle of the lineup. He's been a rally killer this year. Since he's been out the scoring has really picked up.

I don't know what Santana's problem is. The Indians have been trying to fix him but so far no luck. The biggest falloff is his right-handed hitting. Last year he hit .315 right-handed; this year he's at .197. IOW, from Victor Martinez to below the Mendoza line in one season. His average from the left side is a little better than last year, but the power is gone.

I'd say Santana has been without a doubt the most disappointing player on the team based on his production versus what was expected. Damon and Kotchman have also disappointed, but I didn't expect much from them.

I don't know what to do with Santana except to platoon him at first with Kotchman or at DH with Hafner, but even then he only plays against lefties, which is every five games or so. And then he's hitting right-handed.

But it's ridiculous to bench Marson after he hit .383 in June and is continuing his hot hitting right into July. I wonder if Marson is lucky or if he figured something out. He's hitting an astonishing .314 against right-handed pitching. From 2009-2011 he hit .187 against righties. How can he have improved so much? Or is it just a fluke?

Was it a fluke that Santana hit .315 against right-handers last year?

If I were Manny I'd keep Marson at catcher and work Santana into the lineup wherever I can for now. When he's not playing he can get in extra work in the batting cages. His swing, timing, and balance are all messed up. He's not even close to getting hits.

Now watch him go 3-for-4 tomorrow.

Whatever you've been drinking, I want some of it. The catching job is still Santana's and will continue to be. Will we see Lou in there a bit more? Sure.. but you're crazy if you think it's Lou's job. And considering Santana has the best caught stealing percentage in the AL amongst catchers, 2nd in the majors behind Molina... think you're being a bit overdramatic. Yeah, he's been awful at the plate, don't get me wrong. But calm yourself.

I'm very calm. That's why I'm looking at the numbers and making a logical argument rather than just ranting.

Sure, Santana has improved his throwing. That's great. Now he's right up there with Marson. But the difference in the Tribe's ability to score runs with Marson in the lineup versus Santana has been dramatic.

I tend to agree the Indians won't bench Santana just because Marson had one fantastic month and has been a much better offensive player the first half of the season. But I don't know how you take Marson out of the lineup now. His ability to get on base via a walk or base hit has kept a lot of rallies going.

Yesterday Marson came up with the bases loaded and nobody out. He fell behind in the count 0-2, but fouled off a pitch, took a couple of balls, and then drilled a single into right field on a pitch on the outside corner at the knees. Just an outstanding piece of hitting. When Santana is down 0-2 he's toast.

Even if they keep Santana as the starting catcher, they can't bat him 4th, not when he's hitting .180 in that spot. Now that Hafner is back they don't have that problem. When he does play he should bat 7th, at least until he figures out his problem. He looks terrible at the plate. He's jumping all over the place, his swing is way too long, and he's off balance. When he does hit the ball it's usually a ground ball into the shift. He pulls everything. Keep him on the bench until he gets his act together.

Last I looked Marson's K to BB ratio was very good 19/14. Prosecutor very good observation on your part. Marson is progressing, Santana regressing. Then again the Indians marketing machine has put tremendous pressure on him.

Always remember Charlie Manuel saying Marson has the ability to hit 20 HRS per season. Gotta like how the guy has battled to improve.

ironmike wrote:Last I looked Marson's K to BB ratio was very good 19/14. Prosecutor very good observation on your part. Marson is progressing, Santana regressing. Then again the Indians marketing machine has put tremendous pressure on him.

Always remember Charlie Manuel saying Marson has the ability to hit 20 HRS per season. Gotta like how the guy has battled to improve.

My memory is that Marson had a record of being a good hitter and that his trip into the desert was an aberration - but a long one.

A healthy Marson and recovered Carasco would make the Lee trade look a lot better. Now - if Donald would find himself - well - let's say simply we are desperate for a quality backup SS.

ironmike wrote:Last I looked Marson's K to BB ratio was very good 19/14. Prosecutor very good observation on your part. Marson is progressing, Santana regressing. Then again the Indians marketing machine has put tremendous pressure on him.

Always remember Charlie Manuel saying Marson has the ability to hit 20 HRS per season. Gotta like how the guy has battled to improve.

I like Marson, and I hope he continues to improve. That being said, let's not get too crazy over 100 plate appearances. Earlier this season Marson was batting below .100 and there were some people arguing that he should be replaced by Matt Pagnozzi. His first 51 plate appearances yielded 8 hits and 7 walks. Just as it would be silly to get worked up over the first 50 PAs, it's silly to get worked up about the next 50 PAs. That being said, I wouldn't mind if we tried to ride out this hot streak by getting Santana some time at 1B or DH a handful of times per week.

that being said, i think the only way for the lineup to be fixed is for carlos santana to start hitting and play more at 1B. We need marson to be an above average starter and carlos santana to be at least a +.800-.850 OPS guy.

indians1 wrote:Getting the cliff lee trade to look good is impossible.

Jason Knapp is done, carrasco was not much even before his injury.

that being said, i think the only way for the lineup to be fixed is for carlos santana to start hitting and play more at 1B. We need marson to be an above average starter and carlos santana to be at least a +.800-.850 OPS guy.

The Cliff Lee trade netted two pitchers, one who's out of baseball, probably forever, the other will be back..and is already throwing. Carlos Carrasco may be the saving grace of the trade... losing Jason Knapp is a gamble the Indians lost. Lou Marson and Jason Donald are both going to be ML players, however, neither will be 'impact' players. The Indians will only make this trade more even.. right now, they're clearly on the losing end of the deal..

The fixing of the lineup was seen in the clean up spot tonight.. Wow! Pronk with a moon shot tonight.. He can be more impactful than anyone the Indians will get in a trade if he can stay on the field.. Getting Carlos Santana going is a given.. He's 'tinkering' with all the movement in his approach at the plate right now, so, we'll see how that works out..

Santana with a single and two fly balls to the warning track in left-center while hitting left-handed. It's only one game but he looked better at the plate. It looked like he was trying to use the middle of the field. Let's see what he does the rest of the weekend.

Marson is on a ridiculous hot streak, hitting .394 in his last twenty games. He's nowhere near that good a hitter, but he's not an .074 guy either. Like Shelley Duncan, the key is to play him when he's hot and sit him when he's not. The thing about Marson is he plays good defense, draws walks, and puts the ball in play even when he's not hitting well. The only thing Duncan gives you is his bat.

I'm pretty sure the longest you can be on the paternity list is 3 days, so they'll have to make a move before the break.

I think they'd love to keep Donald up here to give them more of a chance to spell Cabby and Kip going forward, so maybe they finally cut Damon loose and commit to Duncan in LF until they can trade for a replacement?!

I think Damon should be the guy to go since Cunningham is needed to give Brantley a break in center field from time to time and he's useful as a defensive replacement and for giving opponent's relief pitchers a false sense of confidence.

But the Indians have said that Damon was signed for the season and the only way he won't finish the season is if HE decides to hang 'em up. Which I don't see him doing. He seems to be having a lot of fun out there.

Prosecutor wrote:I think Damon should be the guy to go since Cunningham is needed to give Brantley a break in center field from time to time and he's useful as a defensive replacement and for giving opponent's relief pitchers a false sense of confidence.

But the Indians have said that Damon was signed for the season and the only way he won't finish the season is if HE decides to hang 'em up. Which I don't see him doing. He seems to be having a lot of fun out there.

Prosecutor wrote:I think Damon should be the guy to go since Cunningham is needed to give Brantley a break in center field from time to time and he's useful as a defensive replacement and for giving opponent's relief pitchers a false sense of confidence.

But the Indians have said that Damon was signed for the season and the only way he won't finish the season is if HE decides to hang 'em up. Which I don't see him doing. He seems to be having a lot of fun out there.

Legit "LOL" moment there. Hats off to you good sir!

That false set of confidence in our opponents relief pitchers was buoyed by that lightening bolt from Johnny's arm to second base... the one before Cunningham's...lol..

We've been led to believe that Jason Donald can play in CF..he should have the talent to play both LF and CF.. Wouldn't a show of his ability to play the OF be nice to see..Although I wouldn't want to see Brantley take a day off with his bat being as hot as it is.. why not LF?. If Donald can handle the job as a fourth/fifth OF'er/Util IF'er, then that makes cunningham vulnerable.. Johnny Damon, doesn't look like he's going anywhere right now & his ABs are getting better..having a playoff hardened veteran on the team can be more valuable than his stats...

Hopefully the All Star break brings change. Lopez needs to play until he shows he can't. Hagedon needs to go to Columbus to pitch a lot to get his control back. Any move at all cannot help but fix LF. I hear over and over how bad LaPorta is and how the Indians have given up on him. Something is plain and simple ridiculous in this hate LaPorta mantra. His "lousy" stats would look great this year - I said great compared to what we are getting. Besides that - there was a stretch last year he was doing well until he sprained his ankle I think in June.

How any fool can keep what we are getting from LF in place and say LaPorta is no good - is the ranting of a fool.

Justin Upton is supposedly available from the Diamondbacks. He's having a slightly down year, but is only 24 and not a FA till 2016. He gets paid under $10 million next year, and then bumps up to over 14 for the last 2 years of the contract (roughly Hafner money).Statistically he's sort of like Choo, and also a RF.But the point is, he's 24, and controllable till 2016. Choo is definitely gone by 2014.

I'm not sure what the D'backs would want. (They would like a 3B, but Chis is out). But I would be fine with including Choo to make the deal. If for nothing else than to provide some stability to the lineup through 2015.

Why is Chis "out" in a deal for Upton? I would happily carry Chis on my back to Arizona if he was the centerpiece to bring in Upton...I'd throw Chis, Wolters, L.Rodriguez and 1 of Gomez/Mcallister their way for Upton and would consider it a major steal

Another name for a slight OF depth upgrade: Denorfia...yeah I know...exciting ...but he'd be an upgrade and come at a minimal cost

Does anybody know if the Tribe was on Justin Upton's no trade list?I believe the Tribe was last yr, but the teams have changed.I'd love to see the Tribe make such a bold move, if the Tribe were to strike for Upton it would be painful in terms of prospects but would hopefully spark the fan base. I'd have to believe that Choo would have to be part of any pkg. to make that kind of move.

Tondo wrote:Why is Chis "out" in a deal for Upton? I would happily carry Chis on my back to Arizona if he was the centerpiece to bring in Upton...I'd throw Chis, Wolters, L.Rodriguez and 1 of Gomez/Mcallister their way for Upton and would consider it a major steal

I think to be traded, you have to pass a physical. Right now, he couldn't.

A.Zajac wrote:Chase Headley is the hot name of late... we'll see where that goes.

I really don't understand why Headly is so attractive. Yes, he's a switch hitter and has a good OBP. But would he be that much more valuable than just giving the job to Jose Lopez? I mean, worth giving up specs?

Lopez is playing second base tonight, we'll see how that works out.. that's where donald would have started to give Kip a night off, but we know he's in Columbus again... If you HAD to use Lopey defensively, he's really an okay 3B'man, his reactions are good and his arm is pretty solid.. if you had to select his best place on the diamond defensively, that is.. Offensively.. hitting .275 or so since June 1st.. is promising..

.. I hear over and over how bad LaPorta is and how the Indians have given up on him. Something is plain and simple ridiculous in this hate LaPorta mantra. His "lousy" stats would look great this year - I said great compared to what we are getting. Besides that - there was a stretch last year he was doing well until he sprained his ankle I think in June.

How any fool can keep what we are getting from LF in place and say LaPorta is no good - is the ranting of a fool....

The only reasonable explanation to matt laporta being exiled in columbus while hanging tremendous numbers.. is a possible decision on the part of the Indians front office.. that Laporta spends the entire season in Columbus.. until september, at least.. Perhaps the Indians FO is merely going to try his patience.. perhaps this exile is to test his desire to be a ML'er... Matt Laporta, for his part.. continues to do his job.. If he's given an opportunity soon, due to health.. performance.. He should be more than ready to meet the challenge.. or he may only get another opportunity.. in another system..

"..that Laporta spends the entire season in Columbus.. until september, at least.. Perhaps the Indians FO is merely going to try his patience.. perhaps this exile is to test his desire to be a ML'er... Matt Laporta, for his part.. continues to do his job."

Is this season about winning or teaching LaPorta some kind of lesson? This is getting absolutely ludicrous.