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Is anybody playing at the top level in Europe and using players who are slow with any great success?

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I know say for instance if you play a slow center back, then you ideally want you defensive line to be atleast deep and that you tell them not to go closing down all over the pitch, because if they miss a tackle they'll be skinned for pace and unlikely to recover.

But it doesn't matter where you play slow players and while certain tactics might help slightly a player with limited pace, the bottom line is that a player who is slow will nearly always be second to the ball if he's up against a nippy forward.

In FM07 I had used slow players with decent success, but with FM08 it is alot more differcult to accommodate these guys?

As some of you are aware, I have something of a penchant for "big fat slow blokes" . It wasn't too much of an issue in FM07, as with the right combination of tactics and other abilities a player could flourish, (even at the top level), without decent pace or acceleration.

In FM08 however I have found the pace is absolutely key for attacking players. With defenders it is less important because no matter how quck they are, they are still going to wander aimlessly around while a through ball completely passes them by.

It does make a hell of a difference and i've started taking more notice of it.

When I took over Bayern, Valerien Ismael was 30 I think and had 16 for pace, he was brilliant first season. Next season it dropped to 14 and he wasn't as good, next season 12 and he was noticeably worse and by 33 he was don to 8 and getting caught out all over the place.

33 isn't dangerously old for a central defender and all his other stats had improved or remained the same but as soon as he lost the pace he was a liability.

There does seem to be too much emphasis on pace though, as I bought Leonardo as left winger 20 for pace and acceleration and he has been amazing whilst my other left winger was obviously better than Leonardo but wasn't doing as well. Same happened with Barnetta and Giles Barnes, Barnes was way more gifted and better attributes but Barnetta got the nod because his pace would destroy teams.

well seems you all go for pace...
I like fast football with pacey wingers too, but...
recently i got job at napoli and when i rewieved the team i realized i'm stuck with midfield full of slowish players (fastest midfielder had 13 for pace) and two fairly poor wingers.

I decided to get rid of wingers and form my tactic around slow midfielders as they were actually really good and with a lot of potential.
so i decided to put dm and three cm's infront and, to pack the midfield, push the fullbacks to full attacking mentality and forward runs.

as you know, napoli doesn't have top of the squads in italy, and with season progressed to march i found my beloved clu to be in the second spot 7 points behind inter and still looking good to stay second.

so, it is possible to get something out of your slow side, just create a tactic that can support it.
on the other side, i didn't participate in euro cups so i can't tell that side, but i guess all you need is good cover for 1st team and a quality player or two to up the standards.
cheers

i've found that you can only get away with having slow goalies and central midfielders - in any other position slow players are a complete liability

for wingers it renders the dribbling stat somewhat pointless as an average winger with good pace will constantly speed past a good yet slower full back without the full back even getting close enough to make a tackle

quick centre backs are also extremely important - with defensive ai currently rather poor, leading to strikers getting a lot of clear cut chances, the most important defensive attribute is pace as it allows a defender to cover back and atone for his inevitable mistakes

Basically, what Kill Rock Stars said. I signed Martin Laursen for my Championship Gillingham side. It was 3rd season in so I think he would have been about 33 years old. His attributes were good, high strength, high heading, high jumping, etc, but his pace was really low (sub 7 or 8 I think). I didn't pay too much attention to this, because I thought he'd be a great signing, but he's been terrible (not as terrible as Danny Murphy, mind). As others have said, he kept getting caught out and skinned by opposing strikers. I've remedied that with a new DC with pace and things have improved already.

In summary, I agree that pace is vital in some areas of the pitch, especially in defence.

Forward, winger and attacking players need to be fast; otherwise, they'd fail to make major impacts. Even with high dribble, they can't pass any faster defenders since they can only knock the ball through but can't rush to get it.
I'd only keep players to age of 33 since after that they'll decline quickly in their speed and stamina.

Originally posted by Macyst:
Forward, winger and attacking players need to be fast; otherwise, they'd fail to make major impacts. Even with high dribble, they can't pass any faster defenders since they can only knock the ball through but can't rush to get it.
I'd only keep players to age of 33 since after that they'll decline quickly in their speed and stamina.

The trouble is that, while this is true in the game, it's not that realistic. There are plenty of real life players who lack pace but play very well, particularly in the lower leagues.

i think slow central midfielders are ok. personally if they are slow i prefer them to be operating in amc or dmc position, as they tend to find space to receive the ball and pass it on.

fm07 was probably a bit more forgiving in this regard. i had rafael van der vaart up until he was about 34/35 and his pace and acceleration had dropped to 8. he average ratings for the season kept on improving, up to about 8.7! it helped that he took penalties,corners freekicks etc. his general technical skills remained excellent.

i have an excellent creative dmc for hibs at the moment, he is good on all stats but is 7 for acceleration. he is performing great in the spl. Unfortunately i cant remember his name! it could be ian black.

Originally posted by chopper99:
The trouble is that, while this is true in the game, it's not that realistic. There are plenty of real life players who lack pace but play very well, particularly in the lower leagues.

In the game these players are generally useless.

Absolutely.

In my second season with Burscough, after being promoted to the BSP, I signed Arjan Da Zeeuw at 38. He has outstanding positioning, anticipation, marking, tackling, etc, basically all the key defensive areas, but only a 4 for pace/acc.

Now we're talking about a guy who only a couple of years ago had an outstanding year in the Premier League with Wigan. He wasn't quick then, but was superb at reading the play and getting in the right positions. Even now he would likely dominate a level like the Conference just through an ability to read the play and position himself.

Instead I've found him to be a lability, simply because every single long ball or defensive clearance puts a striker through on goal. He doesn't position himself to cut such balls out, or anticipate where such balls will go (two of his high ratings) instead he often just seems to wander aimlessly or stand still while players pass him by.

Originally posted by chopper99:
There are plenty of real life players who lack pace but play very well, particularly in the lower leagues.

In the game these players are generally useless.

I mostly agree that speed is disproportionately important in the game, but then in the RL world of football it is becoming more and more vital.

Having said that, in my squad I have a glut of nippy, dribbly strikers who never win a header, and one slow lumbering guy who is 19/20 in the nut stakes. He's great at set-pieces and makes a crucial contribution to the squad.

Generally speaking I think pace in the game is over-rated but especially with defenders. Someone mentioned Martin Laursen who in real life has been one of Villa's best defenders yet in the game due to a poor pace stat he struggles to make my first team squad.

I think the balance they had in FM07 was really consistent regarding pace. In FM08 pace (and related attributes) seem to be slightly over done. You just can't get away with playing really slow players at all in the top divisions and Europe imo.

On a side note; SI seem to have got Heading and jumping to a near perfect balance in this years game. No more target men being over effective, again though this could be in some way related to the pace issue?

Originally posted by Gundo:
I think the balance they had in FM07 was really consistent regarding pace. In FM08 pace (and related attributes) seem to be slightly over done. You just can't get away with playing really slow players at all in the top divisions and Europe imo.

On a side note; SI seem to have got Heading and jumping to a near perfect balance in this years game. No more target men being over effective, again though this could be in some way related to the pace issue?

I'm never buying any defender with pace less than 14 again.
I had a commanding centre half last season with great influence good marking heading and tackling and popular with fans but cost me the title with his 8 pace.

Originally posted by Jibsa:
I'm never buying any defender with pace less than 14 again.
I had a commanding centre half last season with great influence good marking heading and tackling and popular with fans but cost me the title with his 8 pace.

even with very deep D line they're still no good. it's a shame though...

Originally posted by Jibsa:
I'm never buying any defender with pace less than 14 again.
I had a commanding centre half last season with great influence good marking heading and tackling and popular with fans but cost me the title with his 8 pace.

even with very deep D line they're still no good. it's a shame though...

Agreed, they'll more than likely still be second to the ball even if playing deep and defensive.