Yea Im open to relocating to AZ, also TX or So FL, BUT I need a job to make the move. My business degree and YEARS of legit work experience all dismissed for some unknown reason Ive yet to have explained to me by hr managers, recruiters or headhunters if I ever get a chance to speak with one. In the past I did have 3 say to me, in a puzzled manner, after long discussions "why arent you running a company somewhere?"!

NO thats not how it works. As it was explained to me the state can make more regs over an existing federal reg, they just cant lesson a federal reg. So thats how CA scumbags in Sacramento(&other states)get away with it. Under federal ATF regs private citizens DO NOT have to serialize let alone register home build

As a (potentially realistic) example: what if they decided having a fireplace in your house was no longer permissible because of the air pollution they cause, in addition to banning the building of new ones?

This is outrageous.

Did you not follow the stink the EPA made, when they were threatening to fine people in ALASKA for burning wood for heat in the winter last year? Because it was polluting (the very cold makes the particles settle and collect, kind of like smog)? These people theoretically were going to have to come up with a way to get gas piped to their house, at their own expense. Thankfully the EPA backed off, but they tried...

Did you not follow the stink the EPA made, when they were threatening to fine people in ALASKA for burning wood for heat in the winter last year? Because it was polluting (the very cold makes the particles settle and collect, kind of like smog)? These people theoretically were going to have to come up with a way to get gas piped to their house, at their own expense. Thankfully the EPA backed off, but they tried...

The 857 stuff is worse though, because to be in violation of the "clean air" laws you have to acquire and ignite the wood, not just own the stove. If 857 worked that way, it would be a matter of not having to register if you won't be shooting a homebuild, so you could just elect to keep it in the safe. Instead, it's like you've got to register the wood burning stove regardless, or face a misdemeanor.

So if I'm reading all this correct (and its entirely possible I'm not), these rules pertain to finished and assembled 80% firearms. Don't prior rules state that unassembled receivers will not be registered, as the thinking is those are considered "just parts"? What about 100% receivers that have already been DROS'ed and are already in the system? Are they requiring "subjects" to basically re-register and submit photos of them assembled into functioning firearms, even though they are already technially in the system, most often as long rifles? And if built in a non-aw format, why would they need to be 're-registered, other than a cash grab for fees?

So if I'm reading all this correct (and its entirely possible I'm not), these rules pertain to finished and assembled 80% firearms. Don't prior rules state that unassembled receivers will not be registered, as the thinking is those are considered "just parts"? What about 100% receivers that have already been DROS'ed and are already in the system? Are they requiring "subjects" to basically re-register and submit photos of them assembled into functioning firearms, even though they are already technially in the system, most often as long rifles? And if built in a non-aw format, why would they need to be 're-registered, other than a cash grab for fees?

If you have a homebuilt firearm after July 1st 2018, it is required to be registered with a DOJ serial number. Doesn't matter when it was built going back to 1968.

If you registered (volreg'd) it in the past, you are exempt. You do have to convert to featureless or fixed mag, non-aw config in order to keep it as a non-AW.

You can also take your non-registered or volreg'd home built rifle and submit to a DOJ assigned serial and then apply with that serial to become RAW.

Nothing is grandfathered in, if you have a home built rifle after July 1st 2018 that was not volreg'd or not made RAW, then you have to submit to the AB 857 serialization process.

That's why I say to most people that its a good choice to volreg your non-aw (featureless or fixed mag) home build before July 1st 2018 because it EXEMPTS you from having to mark it with their serial number.

If you never marked your home build at all then going through their RAW serialization process and registering it as an AW is also an option, although we have heard of no one yet who applied for the serial actually get one yet.

I went featureless and volreg'd all my home builds and feel confident that I am exempt from 857's marking requirements. I spent alot of time and money marking my guns with my own information and want to keep them like that.

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by doggie

Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG

Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.

"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

I should've elaborated more, and please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this. What I'm questioning is in regards to 100% stripped lowers that were purchased as such and therefore are already in the state's system, registered, most likely as a long rifle, when they were purchased. Not 80's. Even though they were bought as stripped lowers. Would those be required, under these rules, to be re-registered in their completed form, with photos of the complete firearm. Technically, they are already registered, right? If not, and it ever came to confiscation, could one then just hand in the lower, since that is all that it was when it was registered? Or do they want pics of the complete firearm, since it would qualify as a "home built" firearm?
What I'm getting at, in theory, if a person were to strip their 80's, leave them in the safe, since the state won't register stripped 80% lowers, even if milled and finished(if I'm understanding correct), and only use 100%, DROS'ed lowers for rifles. If it ever came to confiscation, the state would only get the lower, as the only part that was registered when purchased, the rest of it and the 80's stay safe at home, off the radar. Yeah, could be a costly proposition for some, but as far as the state knows, you never built a complete rifle with them.
Now this would only work for non-aw type rifles (as that's a whole different bag of cats). And let's face it, if it came down to confiscation, we'd have bigger problems to be worrying about.

I should've elaborated more, and please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this. What I'm questioning is in regards to 100% stripped lowers that were purchased as such and therefore are already in the state's system, registered, most likely as a long rifle, when they were purchased. Not 80's. Even though they were bought as stripped lowers. Would those be required, under these rules, to be re-registered in their completed form, with photos of the complete firearm. Technically, they are already registered, right? If not, and it ever came to confiscation, could one then just hand in the lower, since that is all that it was when it was registered? Or do they want pics of the complete firearm, since it would qualify as a "home built" firearm?
What I'm getting at, in theory, if a person were to strip their 80's, leave them in the safe, since the state won't register stripped 80% lowers, even if milled and finished(if I'm understanding correct), and only use 100%, DROS'ed lowers for rifles. If it ever came to confiscation, the state would only get the lower, as the only part that was registered when purchased, the rest of it and the 80's stay safe at home, off the radar. Yeah, could be a costly proposition for some, but as far as the state knows, you never built a complete rifle with them.
Now this would only work for non-aw type rifles (as that's a whole different bag of cats). And let's face it, if it came down to confiscation, we'd have bigger problems to be worrying about.

You can have a 100% lower forever and as long as it was legally purchased and DROS'd its all good forever. Home build means 80% or from scratch, not an actual lower manufactured by a licensed manufacturer. 857 has nothing to do with any manufactured lower from a licensed company as a firearm.

After Jan 1st 2017, you can only assemble a lower into a non-AW configuration, i.e. featureless, fixed mag, or manual action.

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by doggie

Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG

Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.

"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

Discogodfather, I appreciate the answer. I still don't think I'm making my point. When I finally make it, I'm sure I'll get flamed by many here, you know, " giving them ideas" and all. Let me restart with some questions.
1. Will CA voluntarily register a finished stripped 80% lower, serialized or not? Or does it have to be a finished firearm? I don't mean for AW registration, just for volreg.
2. Are stripped 100% lowers "registered" when purchased? I have never bought one, but my understanding is that they are registered as long rifles at time of purchase, despite being stripped.
3. What is the end result everyone is worried about regarding registration, serialization, etc, etc? Confiscation, right?

Discogodfather, I appreciate the answer. I still don't think I'm making my point. When I finally make it, I'm sure I'll get flamed by many here, you know, " giving them ideas" and all. Let me restart with some questions.
1. Will CA voluntarily register a finished stripped 80% lower, serialized or not? Or does it have to be a finished firearm? I don't mean for AW registration, just for volreg.
2. Are stripped 100% lowers "registered" when purchased? I have never bought one, but my understanding is that they are registered as long rifles at time of purchase, despite being stripped.
3. What is the end result everyone is worried about regarding registration, serialization, etc, etc? Confiscation, right?

1) Up until July 1st 2018 the answer is yes for volreg. Afterwards you need to apply for their assigned serial number.

2) Yes, it's a firearm. That's federal law. Fed's don't see anything assembled or not, the receiver IS the firearm.

3) It depends on who you talk to, some are worried about confiscation but I am not. Registration, for me anyway, seems more like a way to get grandfathered in. The whole mess is unconstitutional and violates the 2nd amendment, so my view is take all legal options and one might end up being the best one. We might also end up loosing all of our rights. I've had RAW for 20 years and didn't have any problems. Volreg is redundant because since 2014 all firearms purchases in CA are essentially registered.

They just could not stand that we make our own firearms for personal use and arbitrarily decided to "limit" our freedom because it makes them fearful.

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by doggie

Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG

Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.

"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

Has it been discussed on what can be changed once the weapon is registered?

I'm thinking of using 1 complete upper on 3 different lower for the pictures. As long as I keep the gun Non-AW compliant (fixed mag / feature-less). Do I need to resubmit pictures if I change features, rails, optics, etc?

The reasoning is that I don't have enough cashflow to complete all the uppers prior to the volreg date (July 2018) but have the lowers completed, and ATF engraved already.

So I could volreg a milled and drilled receiver only? No upper, no barrel, no parts kit, buffer, stock, etc? It wouldn't be a complete firearm, and the state would register it under a volreg? Sorry, pardon my incompetence on this, but I've never heard this. Citation? Granted, I always found it odd that a receiver bought from an FFL was registered at purchase, with no other parts to make it a firearm. I also know that the regs for assault weapons states they will not register a bare receiver. I assumed it was the same for a volreg.

Has it been discussed on what can be changed once the weapon is registered?

I'm thinking of using 1 complete upper on 3 different lower for the pictures. As long as I keep the gun Non-AW compliant (fixed mag / feature-less). Do I need to resubmit pictures if I change features, rails, optics, etc?

The reasoning is that I don't have enough cashflow to complete all the uppers prior to the volreg date (July 2018) but have the lowers completed, and ATF engraved already.

I don't see a problem with that. The regs state you need a functioning firearm to register, but they say nothing about disassembling the firearm afterwards. If we can take it apart after reg, then we can use the same upper on different rifles for the purpose of registration. The only problem is if the same person is looking at the applications and notices it's all the same upper- would they find some excuse to kick it back?

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by doggie

Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG

Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.

"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

So I could volreg a milled and drilled receiver only? No upper, no barrel, no parts kit, buffer, stock, etc? It wouldn't be a complete firearm, and the state would register it under a volreg? Sorry, pardon my incompetence on this, but I've never heard this. Citation? Granted, I always found it odd that a receiver bought from an FFL was registered at purchase, with no other parts to make it a firearm. I also know that the regs for assault weapons states they will not register a bare receiver. I assumed it was the same for a volreg.

Yeah, you can volreg any firearm as defined by Federal law. It can be a bare receiver. But it must be declared as a pistol, rifle, rifle / shotgun combo, or shotgun. Those are the only choices, so you have to decide when you volreg. Going from a pistol to a rifle is less sketchy, going from a rifle to a pistol would be a felony.

Remember all this about a functioning firearm was dreamt up in the BBAW regulations. The Feds have no concept of anything needing to be a functioning firearm, and neither did the State of CA until the BBAW regs came out. In fact, it's not even remotely implied in the law at all, it's all just regulations.

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by doggie

Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG

Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.

"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

§ 5521. The Procedure to Submit Digital Images of the Self-Manufactured or Self-Assembled Firearm.
(a)(2) One digital image shall depict the entire firearm. This image shall be photographed horizontally and taken directly from above in a way that it captures the entire firearm. The
image shall encompass either of the following:
(A) If it is a long gun the image shall capture everything from the end of the barrel
to the end of the stock; or
(B) If it is a pistol the image shall capture the pistol from the point furthest from the
end of the barrel to the opposite end of the pistol; or (C) If it is a receiver or frame only, the entire firearm shall be depicted.

For me the thing that is shocking was the SB880 regs ONLY allowing for completed functioning firearms. In the previous RAW periods for SB23, Roberti-Roos, 50bmg, they did NOT have this requirement. You could register a lower as RAW in the past, but DOJ dreamt up some complete BS in SB880 that it had to be a functioning firearm. This was almost totally designed to limit registration which was their plan all along.

So asking for a firearm to be a completed functioning firearm is the exception, not the rule. It's completely limited to the SB880 regulations and appear no where in state or Fed law anywhere. Cooper is no different, a firearm is the receiver as it has always been.

Now magically a RAW is a completed functioning firearm, but only for the purpose of registration, which is also a laugh. After you reg you can disassemble it, doesn't make it any less of a RAW. Absurd!

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by doggie

Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG

Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.

"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

I figured they would make this the same as SB 880 regs, just to make things difficult.

I think the 10 period to engrave might be a little bit unrealistic, it's not like there are places capable of that work all over the place. Especially if one travels at all for work, there's times in on the road for 3 weeks at a time, and sometimes that occurs with only a day or two of notice.

Here's a thought... What if your engraving is done by a FFL, could that some how qualify for the exemption under PC 29181 (a)? Or because the licensee didn't actually assign it, it wouldn't qualify?

I figured they would make this the same as SB 880 regs, just to make things difficult.

I think the 10 period to engrave might be a little bit unrealistic, it's not like there are places capable of that work all over the place. Especially if one travels at all for work, there's times in on the road for 3 weeks at a time, and sometimes that occurs with only a day or two of notice.

Here's a thought... What if your engraving is done by a FFL, could that some how qualify for the exemption under PC 29181 (a)? Or because the licensee didn't actually assign it, it wouldn't qualify?

That's interesting, it would have to be an FFL07. Honestly I don't know the rules for those guys but I could ask Mark at Spartan, he has a 07. I'd imagine any professional doing the work would be a little wary of some aspects of liability, since most 07's do work to factory made stuff, even with customs. But that is a great question.

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by doggie

Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG

Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.

"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

Wow. Thanks for the info. I have to admit, feel kinda like an idiot after that. I searched online, and maybe I was using the wrong terms, but found nothing on that. Shoots my idea all to hell. This state really wants to f&%k us. No wonder some don't want to comply. I wouldn't want to be the legal test though, and in my career, you'd be amazed what I could lose my license for. I think I'll just volreg and avoid the headache. My 80%'s are self serialized (stamped), but I'll have to put my full name on them, as they currently just have my first initial and last name with all the other requirements. Guess I should hurry and finish a few more lowers and register them as well as bare lowers, to avoid groveling to the state for a number.

Wow. Thanks for the info. I have to admit, feel kinda like an idiot after that. I searched online, and maybe I was using the wrong terms, but found nothing on that. Shoots my idea all to hell. This state really wants to f&%k us. No wonder some don't want to comply. I wouldn't want to be the legal test though, and in my career, you'd be amazed what I could lose my license for. I think I'll just volreg and avoid the headache. My 80%'s are self serialized (stamped), but I'll have to put my full name on them, as they currently just have my first initial and last name with all the other requirements. Guess I should hurry and finish a few more lowers and register them as well as bare lowers, to avoid groveling to the state for a number.

Remember, there is no requirement in volreg to have your name or place of manufacture or anything like that. They just want a serial number- which can be anything. I marked mine without my name, I just put my initials, and even then I incorporated them into the serial number. I did put the place of manufacture and some other info on there, also not to Fed specs.

Fed ATF specs apply to manufactures, and if you didn't manufacture to sell (I never sold any of my home builds and don't plan to) then its debatable if you need to mark anything on a home build. It just is a courtesy to LEO and you do need a serial number marked to volreg, but there are no other requirements that would apply to a home builder that is simply making guns for their own personal use.

There is also no marking standard, meaning a roll punch is fine or anything else for that matter. I remember years ago we had a huge debate on CG about using a sharpie to write the serial on! I said no that was crazy but without an actual standard who knows. I'd say permanent is the minimum.

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by doggie

Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG

Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.

"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

That's interesting, it would have to be an FFL07. Honestly I don't know the rules for those guys but I could ask Mark at Spartan, he has a 07. I'd imagine any professional doing the work would be a little wary of some aspects of liability, since most 07's do work to factory made stuff, even with customs. But that is a great question.

Well if you bought a engraved 80% receiver, from 80% Arms for example, they have an FFL, (not sure what kind though) it would seem to me that they would not be allowed to engraving to any other standards, than the regulations issued pursuant to 18 USC Chapter 44. It's the assigned to it part that's probably the problem.

ETA: the below post is what got me thinking about this, I'm sure this isn't what thorium meant by "professionally" serialized though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thorium

If you have a store bought lower or rifle that came with a serial number, that serial number was applied by the FFL manufacturer.

It does not matter when it was bought. Before or after CA starting keeping Long gun records in their database (AFS) in 2014, it doesn’t matter.

Anything that was “professionally” serialized is exempt from all this stuff, you don’t need to volreg or do anything else.

Now if you self serialized an 80% “to ATF specs” these regulations make clear that exemption only applies to FFL manufacturers... so you either need to volreg your self made up serial number now before July 2018 or the only legal option left will be to apply for a CA DOJ issued serial number and follow the process outlined in these regulations.

Yeah, you can volreg any firearm as defined by Federal law. It can be a bare receiver. But it must be declared as a pistol, rifle, rifle / shotgun combo, or shotgun. Those are the only choices, so you have to decide when you volreg. Going from a pistol to a rifle is less sketchy, going from a rifle to a pistol would be a felony.

Remember all this about a functioning firearm was dreamt up in the BBAW regulations. The Feds have no concept of anything needing to be a functioning firearm, and neither did the State of CA until the BBAW regs came out. In fact, it's not even remotely implied in the law at all, it's all just regulations.

But since this is California, how do we register a bare receiver as a pistol? Wouldn't that constitute an unsafe handgun subject to pc32000???

This is what puzzles me, too.
If someone has a finished 80 that is serialized, but not built, is it registerable?
Is it required to be registered?
What about unmachined, but serialized 80s?
Do center fire, rim fire, shotgun & handguns fall into the same category as far as registration goes?
And are there requirements as far the actual number is concerned?
I mean, how many numer 1s, 2s, 3s, etc. are going to end up in the doj database?

Well if you bought a engraved 80% receiver, from 80% Arms for example, they have an FFL, (not sure what kind though) it would seem to me that they would not be allowed to engrave to any other standards, than the regulations issued pursuant to 18 USC Chapter 44. It's the assigned to it part that's probably the problem.

ETA: the below post is what got me thinking about this, I'm sure this isn't what thorium meant by "professionally" serialized though.

An 80% is just a hunk of metal, or polymer. They are under no obligation to engrave it in any way. If your paying for engraving then I would assume they would make it do the depth and side as required by the ATF. I strongly doubt they are policing it to make sure you include any particular information.

An 80% is just a hunk of metal, or polymer. They are under no obligation to engrave it in any way. If your paying for engraving then I would assume they would make it do the depth and side as required by the ATF. I strongly doubt they are policing it to make sure you include any particular information.

Ok, strike "allowed to engrave" and replace with "engraving" then... Like I said though, just a thought, and probably a stretch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajb78

Well if you bought a engraved 80% receiver, from 80% Arms for example, they have an FFL, (not sure what kind though) it would seem to me that they would not be allowed to engrave engraving to any other standards, than the regulations issued pursuant to 18 USC Chapter 44. It's the assigned to it part that's probably the problem.[snip]

But since this is California, how do we register a bare receiver as a pistol? Wouldn't that constitute an unsafe handgun subject to pc32000???

That's the limit of my knowledge, never built a pistol, I'm a rifle man. It might very well be so, I gave up trying to figure out the pistol stuff years ago. I do remember someone who is an expert telling me earlier this year that if you want to build a pistol now and going forawrd it has to be a manual action single shot. No thank you sir!

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by doggie

Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG

Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.

"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

Remember, there is no requirement in volreg to have your name or place of manufacture or anything like that. They just want a serial number- which can be anything. I marked mine without my name, I just put my initials, and even then I incorporated them into the serial number. I did put the place of manufacture and some other info on there, also not to Fed specs.

Fed ATF specs apply to manufactures, and if you didn't manufacture to sell (I never sold any of my home builds and don't plan to) then its debatable if you need to mark anything on a home build. It just is a courtesy to LEO and you do need a serial number marked to volreg, but there are no other requirements that would apply to a home builder that is simply making guns for their own personal use.

There is also no marking standard, meaning a roll punch is fine or anything else for that matter. I remember years ago we had a huge debate on CG about using a sharpie to write the serial on! I said no that was crazy but without an actual standard who knows. I'd say permanent is the minimum.

Have you had success Volreg your homemade firearms with just a serial number?

I was going to do the whole ATF spec, but if I can get away with just a serial number I may go that route.

Have you had success Volreg your homemade firearms with just a serial number?

I was going to do the whole ATF spec, but if I can get away with just a serial number I may go that route.

I too am curious.
Could someone buy this handheld engraver:https://www.mcmaster.com/#1670t5/=1big0ps
and then etch in a SN of their choosing, and successfully volreg a milled and drilled lower?
During the volreg, is there option to specify "featureless", or "fixed magazine", in some kind of drop-down list?

The electric engravers suck avoid them at all costs. Get a set of marking punches, they work and are cheap.

Then follow a technique like in this video. You don't have to use all the fancy tools he made, you can just clamp a straight piece of wood or such and make sure things are lined up. The slower and more accurate you go the better the result.

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by doggie

Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG

Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.

"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

The electric engravers suck avoid them at all costs. Get a set of marking punches, they work and are cheap.

Then follow a technique like in this video. You don't have to use all the fancy tools he made, you can just clamp a straight piece of wood or such and make sure things are lined up. The slower and more accurate you go the better the result.

Thanks, Disco. Video seems not to be working or there's a problem with how it's embedded.
I quoted the pricier engraver model because it claims "less vibration for smoother writing". Of course a certain percentage of that statement is pure marketing hogwash.

Hmmm, probably cleaner than engraver.
Is there much fear of bending the mag well with a heavy-handed hammering?

With thin steel sheet metal that can't be backed up with something, yes. It bends. But with AR lowers no problem- just support it well. HK receivers when bent are pretty bad, and AK stuff too. I tend to mark them when it's unbent, getting a metal block behind the stamping area.

Remember, as long as it's not a firearm, meaning 80%, you can take it anywhere and anyone can legally engrave it. It's NOT a firearm. It's as if you were carrying around an aluminum block.

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by doggie

Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG

Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.

"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

Remember, as long as it's not a firearm, meaning 80%, you can take it anywhere and anyone can legally engrave it. It's NOT a firearm. It's as if you were carrying around an aluminum block.

I'm more along the lines of:
3 milled & drilled lowers with parts kits (mostly) installed, but NO uppers.

The long-term plan is: 1x featureless, 1x fixed mag, 1x 22LR

Possible course of action: stamp them with my own SNs (and other info???) and volreg without any uppers.
I'm in no hurry to get uppers (plan to build my own as time and $$$ permit), but want to set myself up to be compliant with minimal hassle.

volreg form doesn't ask how it isn't an AW. There are really only two possibilities, it's an AW or it isn't. And you can't volreg an AW, so it is implied. If it really was an AW, and you got caught later, you'd probably get popped for perjury on the form as well as the AW charge.

They allow a volreg of a stripped receiver (from an 80%). But it would have to be a "rifle", same as if you DROS a stripped 100% receiver.

The electric engravers suck avoid them at all costs. Get a set of marking punches, they work and are cheap.

Then follow a technique like in this video. You don't have to use all the fancy tools he made, you can just clamp a straight piece of wood or such and make sure things are lined up. The slower and more accurate you go the better the result.

I used a piece of aluminum bar clamped to my lowers. Kept the punches relatively straight, not perfect. I don't care, my rifles aren't safe queens. I'm cheap and it worked. I also supported my lowers in the vise by running another piece of aluminum through the magwell, used that for support. Minimize the risk of bending it.

volreg form doesn't ask how it isn't an AW. There are really only two possibilities, it's an AW or it isn't. And you can't volreg an AW, so it is implied. If it really was an AW, and you got caught later, you'd probably get popped for perjury on the form as well as the AW charge.

They allow a volreg of a stripped receiver (from an 80%). But it would have to be a "rifle", same as if you DROS a stripped 100% receiver.

I have had some trophy shops reluctant/refuse to engrave unmachined lowers. I chalk it up to ignorance of the laws, but they were under the impression serial numbers had to be issued by the state. And this was over a year ago.

I have had some trophy shops reluctant/refuse to engrave unmachined lowers. I chalk it up to ignorance of the laws, but they were under the impression serial numbers had to be issued by the state. And this was over a year ago.

I was looking at like $40 per lower. I'll be able to to buy some stamps and keep it all in house and Nick cheaper.