CONVERSATION #2

topic: Thug conversation

A.J. said in an email exchange dated February 28 that he wanted to discuss the use of the word 'thug.'

Kerra

Why is it important for you to use thug?

A.J.

Good word. Useful word.

Kerra

When do you use thug?

A.J.

To describe someone who is brutal, menacing and insensitive. It's much more dangerous than bully, and implies a lack of thought.

Kerra

Ok, but in what context? As a writer? To your family? Among colleagues? At the Bojangles? I have a formal response to your thug email, but I don't want to willfully misunderstand you.

A.J.

Anywhere. Any time. There is no racial component in how I use it. I see it's now become a term I wouldn't apply to a black man for fear of being misunderstood (which I kinda resent) but to not use it at all because other people have decided what they think it means? That’s bs. And part of what pisses me off about it is that they've already won and I won't be able to use the word at all

Kerra

Really? I think as descendants of people who were sold into slavery and stripped of our language and essentially forced to use this one ,we get to decide what's appropriate in these instances. Because 'thug' is a code word. It's a code word that has immediate, real and serious consequences

A.J.

Who decided it was a code word? When?

Kerra

Trump gets to use thugs as a justification for walling off Chicago and federalize the National Guard and creating militarized police zones. No one had a meeting about it and passed a resolution. You know how language works

A.J.

I do. And I get that

Kerra

But okay, use thugs because it makes you seethe that someone said a word was off limits.

A.J.

Is it offensive if I use it to refer to a white man?

Kerra

You think you are slick... 😉I was just about to fall into the 'motivation' trap.

A.J.

Ha. But if the object is clearly a white person then it's not just about motivation.

Kerra

If you use it toward a white person it doesn't have the same connotation. And some white people would love for you to call them a thug.

A.J.

What connotation? People have invented this in the last decade or so. I'd never even heard it being used with a racial component until recently.

Kerra

Tell me an instance in which you would call a white person a thug.

A.J.

If a white meat head tried to push me around in a bar or something. Is there a real history of thug being used to refer to black men before black men appropriated it?

Kerra

By real, you mean before the last decade? No, there is no real history. But the appropriation is key.

A.J.

Part of what I find baffling is the equation of thug with the “n word” which was always and continually racist.

Kerra

Like the article said it's a form of subversion

A.J.

But if you claim a word for your own group how can you then be offended when other people use that word of your group?

Kerra

Why do you find it baffling? Because of who got to define it? That's the argument white people use to justify saying “nigger.”

A.J.

Because the word (thug) itself isn't racist, as my applying it to white people makes clear [In fact, it is etymologically since it refers to a subset of Indian people who became a watchword for deceiving and attacking people, though that sense of the term hasn’t been current for a century or so. A.J. argues that he grew up using the word in England with no sense of any racial association] No, it's not “N word” was always racist. It's a color word. 'thug' is a behavior word.

Kerra

Yes, it is. How many white people say “why do you get to use the word nigger and I don't?”

A.J.

Not me. Never.

Kerra

Thug has become a culture word and now race and culture are intertwined.

A.J.

Yes, that's why I say the battle is probably lost and not worth fighting over. But I think it's bollocks.

Kerra

Ha. I think it's important if you really look deeper

A.J.

And--and this is more serious--it's the kind of thing which allows Trump supporters to claim PC culture is cancerous.

Kerra

Think about who is making the determination and why.

A.J.

I know. I get that.

Kerra

You do and you don't. You get it on a philosophical level, but maybe not emotionally.

A.J.

Yes

Kerra

I would rather piss off Trump supporters than allow Trump to use this to justify his thuggery.

A.J.

Ok, see how you used it there to me was race neutral and perfectly appropriate to what Trump does. He's a thug.

Kerra

I understand your point. I was just messing with you. Or how about sometimes a thug needs a hug?

A.J.

Ha. Yeah. Man, all this would be easier over beer

Kerra

Yup. Seriously though, to be truthful, you are right.

A.J.

And so, annoyingly, are you.

Kerra

This all seems to be made up and manufactured and there are real issues to be worried about.

A.J.

I just like the word. It sounds like what it is. Yes, I agree with that. The small stuff gets in the way of the big fights.

Kerra

Exactly and we need to keep our focus.

A.J.

Yes. Focus.

Kerra

But I am willing to let thug slide because words are the only thing people have. Think about that Andrew, words are the only thing people have.

We are not experts

Neither Kerra nor A.J. have advanced degrees in race studies. Their qualifications are simply a willingness to share their views and, perhaps more importantly, to listen to each other. They hope to both teach and learn from the conversation, drawing not on complex theory or specialist insight but on everyday experience and the conviction that we NEED to talk about this stuff.