The pond is about 5-6 acres surface. Seems like good water quality not alot of moss or weeds.

The problem is the fish, well not a problem i just think they could be betterThe lake has a relatively good stock of Bluegill from what ive gathered. Lots of big bluegill. I always fish to keep so im always keeping all the small to medium bluegill and throwing the monsters back. Should i be doing this how can i make the medium and small bluegill bigger and the big ones even bigger.

Next the bass.Bass on the other hand is not as good. I can fish all day and catch maybe 20 and none of them are big some are decent but not big. None of them however are small oddly enough smallest being around 12" and relatively healthy not skin and bones. The big ones dont have that huge belly like you want or see on tv but there also not skinny.

As for Channel CatfishThe guy who owns the lake says hes caught some nice 15 or so pounders years ago. Ive fished for hours on end trying to catch catfish and have never even got a bite. Although i have seen a big channel cat feeding up in the shallows one evening. I believe there is very few if not just one

Heres what i would like to doI would like to have more Medium to Big Bluegill preferably not have to worry about taking home the big boys. So if i do take home a big i know another will grow its size next year.

Alot more Medium to big Bass

Alot more Channel Catfish

And maybe some kind of Hybrid bluegill or RedearAlso some Albino catfish just cause it would be neat to see every once in a while.

Next year i will be adding a aerator on the deep end of the pond and a fountain 0n the shallow end, also a dock with buglight.

Any info you guys can give me to make this pond an awesome fishing pond i would greatly appreciate. Also this pond is for catching a keeping not releasing unless its huge.

Edited by Bluegillerkiller (09/08/0905:59 PM)

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I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease..

Generally, in this situation, you begin the process of culling LMB of certain sizes. In your case, you might want to take out everything under 14".

Some of the LMB culling can also be done considering what size of Bluegill you want to maximize.

Bluegill (BG) are the backbone of the LMB forage base, so you don't want to thin them out too much, if at all, but it depends on your overall goals.

As far as the catfish, they sometimes get too wise to catch.

You can restock them in certain sizes and take them out when you want.

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Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:""She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

The textbook overpopulation of LMB usually has high catch rates of stunted bass.

What could be some other reasons? Hook-Shy bass?

Are you live bait fishing or lure fishing?

Are there a few huge catfish who have been chomping on the stunted LMB population?

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Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:""She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

Pond is old over 20 years atleast. Ive only caught the bass on artificials and lures. Some are nice size but not big. I would rather have big bluegill than big bass.. I suppose the catfish could be eating the stunted bass but i can never catch catfish and ive only seen 1. So what do you guys think about the rest of my questions.

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I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease..

also the bass are not skinny but not fat. The bigger ones maybe 15 18" at the most are healthy but not fat. Thier is a good population of big bluegill, i catch more big bluegill than little but id like to catch more. And can you guys give me more info on stocking CC or Albing CC. Or Hybrid bluegill or Redear i like panfish if you cant tell.and thanks againg for all your help guys.Nick

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I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease..

Please try and bear with our endless questions while we try to vicariously figure out your situation.

Regarding the stocking of CC (or albino CC), you could put a hundred per acre in if that's what you wanted, but it would limit your options and pen you into a management plan.

Do you feed any pellet fish food?

If not, then the existing and soon-to-be-existing fish need to have a forage base to eat on. We need to determine that.

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Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:""She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

Hi bluegillkiller. Bluegill are my specialty. All the advice you've already received is right-on. It's important to keep in mind that both big bass and big bluegill in one pond are very difficult to achieve; it can be done, but it's not common, and probably not a realistic goal.

From what you've described, I would tend to agree with Sunil that your bass are overcrowded; all the symptoms point to this: big bluegill, thin bass mostly smaller in size. Something very important to understand: if bluegill are top priority, don't remove any bass from the pond. One of the first steps in managing any pond for trophy bluegill is to let the bass overcrowd, because when they're overcrowded they keep the bluegill well-thinned such that the bluegill that survive the LMB gauntlet have all they want to eat and grow very large, several times what they will in a pond or lake in which the bluegill are overpopulated. So if bluegill are the main species of focus, don't keep any bass. Not one.

You're right to release the bigger bluegill; they can't get to 10" if they're yanked out of the lake when they're 8". Culling can also help; I discovered this by accident on the best bluegill lake I ever managed. It was four acres, and the first two years I worked with it I kept close to the recommended poundage of bluegill per acre for a fertilized pond in TN, according to TWRA, before I knew that was far too many big bluegill to keep per acre; I fished down the pond to where you had to work to catch fifteen or twenty bluegill in half a day, but those fifteen or twenty averaged fourteen ounces or better every time for several years, and I caught at least one pounder every trip, and many far over a pound.

Other things you can do to increase the average size of the bluegill include stocking grass shrimp (P. kadiakensis) as an extra forage source for them, and feeding high-protein pellet food as Sunil mentioned, preferably via an automatic feeder which can be programmed to feed multiple times a day and which thus is more consistent than any human. The pellet food will make a bigger difference than anything else you do other than not keeping bass; if you do nothing else new other than install three to six or eight automatic feeders and begin feeding two or three times a day (less or none in the cold months, depending on the fish response), you could double the average size of the bluegill in two years. Make sure to get a high-quality food, as all foods are not created equal and this makes a big difference; most of us on here use Purina Aquamax 500 for bluegill, though you could mix it with 600 since you have some bigger bluegill already.

If you want more big BG, leave the bass in the pond. They're what is keeping your pond growing all those nice BG. On a pond your size, hybrid BG(HBG) are not a good choice IMO. HBG IMO are better used in smaller ponds, but do some research on here and decide what you like. You are far enough south that RES should survive well in your pond. I would stock 25-50(depending on budget) or more larger sized, say 5" plus per acre. So for a pond your size, that'd be 125-150 or so RES.

Also consider a feeding program. It makes the growing of more, bigger BG a lot easier.

If you're highly interested in CC. Stock between 25-100 per acre. But keep in mind, they are eating machines and will eat a lot of fish food meant for your BG. They also get very hook shy, so you'll need to keep those you catch or expect to have a lot of very large but almost impossible to catch CC.

As far as albino CC go, you'll need advanced size albinos, say 12" or more to expect a reasonable survival rate. I usually grow 5 or so a year to about 12" before I stock them. I agree they are neat to see swimming around. Seeing a 30" pink tank go by is pretty cool!

Sounds like you have the makings of a great fishing hole! Best of luck...

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Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths.

One other thought: a method which was recommended recently in a Pond Boss magazine article for thinning overcrowded bass while maintaining high quality bluegill fishing, is to stock a small number of northern pike or tiger muskie, two to four per acre. In your area, tiger muskie would probably be better since they're sterile and can't spawn. They'll thin out the small bass so the bass that survive have more to eat and grow larger, but they'll also take up the slack with the bluegill those bass would have eaten and keep said bluegill from overpopulating. I stocked northern pike once in a two-acre pond for the purpose of thinning overpopulated green sunfish, and ended up with huge bass and bluegill both.

Whichever route you take, keeping lots of predators in the pond is key for growing big bluegill.

Thanks for the info guys im gonna try and answer each question to each post.

1st. I dont feed pellet food as of now, i thought about it but i also thought that might make the fish hook shy.

2nd. I wouldnt say i have thin bass just not fat. and i definately dont catch alot of small one just not alot at all mostly medium size.Can someone explain what culling exactly is and an effective method for my pond. Or what is the correct poundage of bluegill i should be removing and how often?3,6 or 8 automatic feeders? Damn that seems like alot how bout one, 3X's a day.

Also i really like to catfish mainly at night. I would like to do some kind of catfish management with my bluegill any suggestions.

Im guessing RES is red eared sunfish? Can i get some more info on these guys. I like my panfish.

Ive heard stay away from crappie and if you have them in your pond its already to late i dont have any but whats your guys thoughts.

I might be open to the tiger muskie anymore thoughts on this.

Im gonna get me an exact measurement of the pond as soon as i can and take a bunch of depth readings when i get a boat and figure my exact size and depth. What is some more information im gonna wanna know to make this pond great. And how do i find out my surface acres, take a perimeter reading?

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I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease..

Welcome to PB! I agree with what's been posted so far. I have a question for you. What do you consider to be a "big bluegill"? i.e. size and weight.

HBG won't get as large as pure strain BG, although they will grow faster in the first couple of years.

CC, once caught are damn'near impossible to catch again. (at least, that's been my experience in my pond.) Even if you stock 10" long CC, and catch one 11" long a week later, I think you will have a hard time catching it again. I KNOW that I stocked 150 10" or so CC in my pond in the past few years, and I'm pretty sure that I know how many have been taken out, unless some have been poached out. By my count, there still should be close to 100 CC in the pond (1 to 1 3/4 ac, depending on the time of year) and I'm having a hard time catching one.

Towards the top of the first page, you will see an archives thread. Look in there for a Relative weight chart for LMB and BG. If you catch some LMB and BG, see if you can measure/weigh them. That will tell you (and us if you share the info) how well the fish are eating.

If you're near St. Louie, and can get free for a day or so:It's not too late! Let's get you to Big Cedar and the Pond Boss III Conference and Expo.

I don't think so much that people here are against CC. Just CC are not in many people here's managment goals. But that is the beauty of the ponds being privately owned. You get to decide what species are most important to you, then once you have come up with a clear idea of what you want in your pond and for what reason, ie. do you want CC to eat once a week, or do you want to grow a few whoppers for trophy value, then everyone will be able to pitch in and assist in getting you what you want.

No one here is so closed minded to poo poo on your ideas for your pond, just everyone tries to share their best knowledge and experiences to make ponding as enjoyable as it can be.

So Bluegillerkiller, really try to think about exactly you want from your target species and then everyone can try to help come up with a plan that is great for you.

So maybe try listing your species in order of desirability and what you want out of them - lots to eat, or trophys

O.K., say 10"-11" BG then. I don't think CC are bad, I just have to remember that if one gets caught, it doesn't go back in. I fin clipped the ones that I stocked this year, and tagged & released the 28" 14.5# one that hit a floating Rapala earlier this year. I did that so I can start knowing when they were put in, and if I have any natural reproduction. I've taken 12 CC out of the pond this year, and will be trying for more!

Even if you put one feeder on the pond, it will be better than none. Check the water, and the visibility. Get a secchi disc and learn how to use it. Fertilizing might help them grow quicker as well. If you can't make the conference this year, look at the Pond Boss Website and look in their library. They have a few good pond management books that might help as well.

Feeding the fish won't make them hook shy, although if they haven't seen fish pellets before it might take them some time to figure out what they are. There's a LOT of information here, reading and asking questions will get you on track quick. Things might start slowing down around here because of the conference in a week, but your questions WILL get answered!

MikeyBoy, IMHO I think what you wrote is exactly what this forum is about... Great post!

Personally I like CC. I am not a big freshwater fish eater though, so I stock on the low end. I also like more natural food chains which also leads to lower stocking rates. About 10 per acre per year is what I shoot for. I like to throw a few albinos in for entertainment value as well.

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Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths.

Bluegillkiller, the big problem with CC is what's already been mentioned: they become extremely hook-shy extremely quickly, and you end up with a bunch of fish that, once they get to five or ten pounds, will knock the bluegill out of the way with their tails to keep the latter away from the pellet food while themselves eating said pellet food like Jenny Craig escapees at a salad bar. I enjoy catching a big catfish myself; I don't enjoy having fish in a pond I'm trying to manage for trophy bluegill that keep most of the pellet food away from the bluegill so I can't feed effectively in that pond, which is the situation right now in a pond I'm working with that one of the owners stocked with CC. If it weren't for the CC, I could have the bluegill averaging a pound right now; as it is they average around nine ounces, but that's a big difference, and the CC have caused it because I can't effectively utilize pellet food in that pond. You can stock them, and every now and then you'll catch one; but they'll wreck your bluegill management.

Crappie - just say no.

You could go with as few as one feeder, but for a lake that size, try to get at least two or three on there and you'll be glad you did. With only one, only a portion of the bluegill in the lake will benefit; if you get three on there, most of the bluegill in the BOW will benefit, which means more bluegill that get very large. They won't at all become hook-shy due to feeding; they'll become easier to catch, because they'll concentrate around the feeders and they'll be more in feeding mode more of the time.

RES would be good - they get very big in the proper conditions. HBG you don't really need, especially if you're going to feed, since common-strain bluegill get as big or bigger on pellet food, and don't degenerate genetically after the first (stocker) generation like HBG do.

There are some very affordable feeders on the market now that a lot of us use. Native Outdoors sells a feeder by Moultrie for $67, $30 extra for the solar-panel battery charger; I use it and haven't had any problems yet other than you need to make sure you mount it out over the water because some of the food goes straight down. Or you could spend a little more and get a Sweeney or Texas Hunter that will sling that food well out. If you get three feeders running on that lake, a year from now you're going to be a very happy bluegill fisherman.

Thanks for the info so far guys.Heres what i think im gonna do, Im gonna go with 3 feeders and a buglight on the dock. Also im gonna run an aerator to the deep and a fountain on the shallow end. I was also thinking of adding some cover since there is pretty well none in the lake any thoughts on that? As far as the bass im still not convinced there over populated because everyone says i should be catching alot of small skinny ones, im not im catching alot of medium size a few small and a few large none however are skinny there just not fat but they look healthy. Anymore thoughts on that. Also im wanting to add maybe just a few albino CC not alot just for the occasional entertainment value. My next question what do you think about adding the Red eared sunfish, Im wanting to add another panfish to the mix besides BG i would like to add something more exotic maybe coppernose or something gimme some suggestions,that get real big say 2lbs or more consistently any suggestions, but not something thats going to ruin my BG habitat. Also whats a good feeder (relatively cheap) for bank mounting that really throws the food out there, i'll probably go with a 2x's daily feeding regimine for a few minutes, after all i dont have alot of money, anyone got any good suggestions for money saving techniques or alternatives, im gonna go with the purina fish chow what should i get. Please keep all the good info coming guys im sucking this in like a sponge, im wanting to get the feeders maybe this weekend just to get them going before the winter. I appreciate all the help im open to any and all suggestions im just getting into this and wanna do it right.Also if you could suggest a good feeder from cabelas or bass pro that would be nice sinse i work within 20 mins of each.

This is awesome thank you very much. Im just a shade under 4 acres on my pond 3.88

But if i look at it under the DOQ setting its about 4.25 what does the doq mean. And i can tell in the satelite pic that was after a couple years of drought the water is way down the owner told me about that year water dried up 20-30 of the shallow end.

Edited by Bluegillerkiller (09/09/0908:15 PM)

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I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease..

Redear are an excellent sunfish; they get larger than bluegill. I do know there's an upper limit to their range, but since Bruce Condello has done well with them in Nebraska, I would think you'd be fine.

I firmly believe in a pond owner managing his pond the way he sees fit; but if there's any way you can let go of the catfish idea, you'll thank me the first time you ever fish the pond of someone who has been feeding bluegill any length of time and has catfish. Two or three years from now they're going to make it very difficult for the bluegill to get any food; and, they'll eat the food as fast and as much as you throw in; their stomachs will hold a lot and they grow fast with a good food supply, so they can easily eat you out of house and home. If you have to have them, I would suggest stocking as few as you can possibly live with; maybe they'll concentrate at one feeder and the bluegill at the other two feeders will still get some food.

Feeder-wise, I checked online and Cabela's and BPS carry the same feeders, Moultrie, Aquapro, and a brand I had never heard of until thirty seconds ago, OnTime. I am using three Moultries at present; they don't throw well, dumping some of the food right at the base of the feeder. I'm using two Aquapro, and one dumps some food at the base of the feeder and the cheaper model just doesn't throw the food properly; I have to set it to a 20-second cycle to throw the same amount one of the Moultries throws in 6.

The two brands that consistently get stellar marks on this forum are Texas Hunter and Sweeney. Texas Hunter has a model for hanging from a dock that sells for around $500; they have a kit to make a feeder that includes the timer and basically everything except the battery and a hopper, for $89, but I'm not sure if that's just a deer feeder that doesn't throw directionally, meaning it throws in all directions and thus wouldn't work for a pond; might be worth looking into though.

Coppernose bluegill are great but they don't do well as far north as you are; the generally-agreed cut-off is I-40 or the TN-KY line, depending on who you ask, but well south of you.

HBG routinely grow to two pounds with supplemental feeding, but so do common, northern-strain bluegill; the big disadvantage to HBG is that only the stocker generation is desirable, as their offspring degenerate genetically such that they don't get large at all; common-strain bluegill don't have this problem. One thing you can do to maximize the size potential of your bluegill is to buy some bluegill from someone who has bred northern-strain selectively for a few or several years such that their bluegill have far more potential than just the average northern-strain. Bruce does this, and more than one of his bluegill has topped two pounds; if he has any fish at present and you can get them from NE to your pond, they could make a difference. There's also a hatchery in Iowa that claims to specialize in large (northern-strain) bluegill. I don't know anything about them but you could try them if Bruce doesn't have any fish:

Food-wise Purina Aquamax is what most of us bluegill fiends on here use. It's 41% protein, and it's mostly fish-based whereas some cheaper brands are made from suspect ingredients; I read about one brand that's made from chicken feathers, and which evidently is not very utilizable by bluegill. Aquamax is more expensive than regular catfish chow, but catfish chow is plant-based, which is good for catfish but not so much for bluegill. You'll get faster and better growth from the Aquamax so it will take less food to achieve the same growth.

Feed only as much as the fish will clean up in ten minutes or so.

It does sound like your bass may actually be not too overcrowded, depending on what your definition of small, medium-sized, and large is. You may have at present what is referred to as a "balanced" pond, which used to be commonly recommended as a goal by various state DNRs but which in reality is only slightly more common than a flourescent green unicorn. You may presently have the only one in North America (kidding, only slightly though).

BGK, if your really low on funds for your feeders you could mount them on a tripod, or mount them on shore and use a deer feeder and block 180 degrees of the feeding arc with a piece of plastic. I had to put my feeder on the tripod cause of bear problems.Here's one on a tripod.