About Schools,...as I did both and I live in a high traffic border city- and I placated my children's non Veg dad

What does being vegetarian or not have to do with believing that vaccines are not harmful? There are plenty of carnists among the vaccine denialists. There are many vegans who use vaccines for their children and who fully accept medical science.

the topic was raising vegan babies and vaccines-I was stating my ex was a non vegan or vegetarian in addition to being a meat eating piece of poop asshole. Thats all.

On that note, vaccines are certainly non-vegan, and probably non-vegetarian by any reasonable definition, but in my opinion, sometimes you just need to go with the greater good. It's a responsibility as a member of general society. Please please please at least give consideration to a full schedule of vaccines.

and I wouldnt have it your way. My son STILL got a full case of whooping cough...and he was vaccinated.

Not every vaccine is 100% effective. Again, that's where herd immunity is important. It also helps protect people for whom the vaccine was not sufficient. It's about preventing a few isolated cases of pertussis from becoming outbreaks. And again, anecdotal evidence tells us nothing.

divamom wrote:

just be careful when insulting someone's intelligence...cause you only insult your own.

I'm really not worried about that. This isn't about your intelligence. Frankly, it's about your knowledge. If I thought you were unintelligent I wouldn't be trying to convince you of anything. Instead, I'm urging you to do the research. Ignore anecdotes and look at actual evidence. Go read the studies. Familiarize yourself with the science. These are the same research methods and standards of proof that are behind things like asthma medications and antibiotics. If we made decisions based on isolated cases and anecdotes, we would still be stuck at trepanning and bloodletting.

Taught in a hospital Childbirth Education for over 8 years, and three years at my local Community College in Continuing Ed. I don't do anything half assed or half cocked when it comes to my children/ family and their health. I have read. And I do know. A pharmacist's daughter, and I used to read the PDR for fun in college. I am quite informed of my decisions- and read nursing manuals and pediatric journals. Oh and used to do a quarterly seminar with a prominent La Jolla physician when I was still working at the hospital. Again...you are coming from a bias...I am coming from neutral. Go back and reread my original reply...I have melded allopathic and homeopathic for years---I mentioned polio was eradicated due to vaccines...I am neutral. I chose NOT to do anymore vaccines in middle school, they kept changing and adding more. Upon further research, I made my decisions to stop. I don't have a newborn. My youngest is 16...the other are in their twenties, and two of the vaccines they were SUPPoSED to have, ...well, those have already been removed and replaced with something else. Its constantly evolving and sometimes...NOT for the greater good. Oh,...and I kept my kids home from school during chicken pox as I DID not do varicella, and I kept my son out when he had whooping cough. Your broad assumptions are just that...broad.On the flip side, I am sure you are a nice guy...just extremely opinionated and not necessarily in the right...just opinionated.

The original question posed was the issue of schools; I shared..you can sign a waiver if you choose not to immunize. Thats knowledge based. The choice to immunize or not is personal..all I did was answer a question..with fact and personal experience. Kudos that you did for your son..how old is he? I guaranfuckingtee that the immunization schedule is radically different than the ones my kids got...life is too short to quibble over this...now if you really want an argument and studies thrown back at you on WHY NOT TO...go read Jenny McCarthy's book,

Do people who are anti-vaccine think that widespread vaccination is actually unrelated to the decline (near elimination of) dangerous diseases? Or do they acknowledge that vaccination programs have basically eliminated those diseases, but just think that there are negative side effects that mean that we're all better off not vaccinating--i.e., those diseases would probably come back if vaccination ended, but the deaths that would results aren't as bad as the negative side effects they believe exist? Do they think no one should be vaccinated? Or do they just not want their own kids to be vaccinated (relying on the majority of other parents to continue vaccinating their children at a high enough rate to prevent the return of the diseases)?

I just don't quite understand the end goal. I mean, I can kind of understand being concerned about side effects (most medical treatments have some (it's clear autism is not one of them, though)), but I don't understand thinking those are bad enough that they are worse than the return of epidemic levels of childhood diseases that can kill or cause long term disability.

Taught in a hospital Childbirth Education for over 8 years, and three years at my local Community College in Continuing Ed. I don't do anything half assed or half cocked when it comes to my children/ family and their health. I have read. And I do know. A pharmacist's daughter, and I used to read the PDR for fun in college. I am quite informed of my decisions- and read nursing manuals and pediatric journals.

Which journals? Are they respected and peer-reviewed? Have they published research on vaccines and homeopathy?

divamom wrote:

Oh and used to do a quarterly seminar with a prominent La Jolla physician when I was still working at the hospital. Again...you are coming from a bias...I am coming from neutral.

I posted evidence for everything that I claimed. You haven't done anything of the sort, instead appealing to anecdote. Any bias I have is based entirely on science. You don't need to be "neutral" about issues where one side is clearly unsupported by fact. For example, I'm not "neutral" about evolution or gravity or thermodynamics.

divamom wrote:

Go back and reread my original reply...I have melded allopathic and homeopathic for years

And that's what I'm talking about. Homeopathy is quackery of the most obvious kind. There is no evidence for its efficacy or even for the fundamental mechanisms by which it claims to work. There's no research showing that it works, and plenty demonstrating that it's only as effective as a placebo at best. I posted links to back up my claims. Anyone who believes in the scientific method should find homeopathic medicine untenable. If, however, you choose to trust anecdotal evidence over actual science and research ... well, I guess there's nothing i can do to convince you.

divamom wrote:

On the flip side, I am sure you are a nice guy...just extremely opinionated and not necessarily in the right...just opinionated.

Believe me, I feel the same way. Nothing against you at all, and I'll readily admit that antivax and homeopathy get under my skin. The willingness to argue with you is a sign of respect. If I didn't care what you think, I'd have just moved on by now.

divamom wrote:

The original question posed was the issue of schools; I shared..you can sign a waiver if you choose not to immunize. Thats knowledge based. The choice to immunize or not is personal..all I did was answer a question..with fact and personal experience. Kudos that you did for your son..how old is he? I guaranfuckingtee that the immunization schedule is radically different than the ones my kids got...life is too short to quibble over this...now if you really want an argument and studies thrown back at you on WHY NOT TO...go read Jenny McCarthy's book,

OK, now Jenny, I don't care what she thinks. Jenny McCarthy is well-meaning but horribly confused, and her books are full of utterly incorrect science.

My kids are older... and if you read (instead of reposting shit you found online)--you would see, I did vaccinate, to a point, i am all about informed decision making.

Bruce, you're kind of being an asshole about all this...I read JAMA and ACOG materials current and relevant 8 years ago when my son was 12 and the school wanted his hib titer redone. (do you need to know what JAMA and ACOG are????) I dont save shit like that..it was 8 years ago..and nice as you may be..you're being an ass right now. Go back to original posters thoughts..she asked WHAT about schools..I provided an answer. If you feel its your mission to educate on immunizations...Go public. Put it on Fbook...Call Jenny...but you are just looking for an argument here..and really..if you want to reply..Go for it..but I know an asshole looking for an argument...I was married to one, once.

Oh, and I read 1/2 of one of Jenny's book...put it down..she is an idiot.

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