For Third Party voters on ATS

Ok, I might as well do this now... *grabs a microphone* This goes out to all the people who are going to vote third party in November!

I know this is a old argument that no one's going to listen too, but a vote for a third party IS a vote wasted. We don't have a parlimentary system
like Canada where a vote for a third (or fourth) party equals seats in the legislature. In our INFERIOR system, a vote for a third party just goes
into the void. The only way things would change is if a massive amount of voters (60-70 percent) selected a third party candidate and elected him or
her President.

But lets be realistic, despite all the false hopes and the "maybe this year" syndrome people seem to have, that's never going to happen. They'll
get 7 percent at the most. And where do those votes go? What do those votes do? They go into the electoral void and they serve to help one of the
two-party candidates.

So to repeat the old line: a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush. On the other hand a vote for the Facsio-Theocratic...I mean Consitution party is a
vote for Kerry. As for the Libertarians....I suppose the it depends on whether the voter is a more liberal Libertarian or a more conservative
Libertarian.

In 2000 if thousands hadn't voted for Nader, Gore would have won the election handily. Now I'm guessing Nader voters are quite liberal and if given
the choice between a dem and repub would have certainly picked the dems. But they voted for Nader and Nader still didn't win, there were no Green
seats created in congress, no increase of their voice in government. Their vote went into the void and in the end meant nothing.

Now can you really tell me that a vote for Nader wasn't a vote for Bush?

I'd like to note that all of what I've said applies to Presidential elections. It's a bit different when you get to the state and congressional
level. I'd like to see more third parties in the legislature.

But this is a very important election, probably the most important in our lifetimes. It's not a time for a dammed "protest vote". There is a real
difference between the candidates despite what you hear, and they will take the country in different directions. Pick one. We can do the whole thrid
party thing another time, maybe in four years. NOW IS NOT THE TIME.

Notice the Nader spokesman blames the problems on political dirty tricks by Democrats. Nader seems to blame all his problems on Democrats, and he
claims not to know much about help he is receiving from Republicans.

It depends upon how you want to look at it. To me a vote for Kerry is pretty much a vote for Bush so I look at it as throwing my vote away. If the
Democrats would have bothered to nominate someone who was actually anything other then a "Republican Lite" then they would have gotten my vote.

As for your idea that Nader was responsible for Gore defeat in 2000, I highly doubt that was the case. During the Clinton years the Democratic party
lost 12% of their registered voters. Furthermore Clinton presided over the largest loss of seats in Congress, the governorships, and state
legislatures of any Democratic White House incumbency since Grover Cleveland. I think that may be a sign that the candidates the Democrats are
nominating and their platform (or lack thereof) is turning off potential voters.

Some more statistics about Nader and the 2000 election: 20% of all Democratic voters, 12% of all self- identified liberal voters, 39% of all women
voters, 44% of all seniors, one-third of all voters earning under $20,000 per year, 42% of those earning $20-30,000 annually, and 31% of all voting
union members cast their ballots for Bush. Sixty-two percent of Nader's voters were Republicans, independents, third-party voters and nonvoters

Right now, Nader is only on the ballot in six states, and likely to be on the ballot in six more. It is looking increasingly likely that Nader will
be a non-factor. But if the election is close, he could still throw a key state like Florida to Bush, thus once again frustrating the will of the
American people.

Take a look at your state. Are you in a battleground?
Interactive Electoral Race Map (It's not really as good as it makes it look for Kerry IMO.)

If not, vote your conscience with a clean conscience!

If you are, consider your vote carefully please.

I think that what RANT said right here is definitely something to think about. Personally, no matter how I vote my state is obviously going to go to
Kerry (Ma) so why waste a vote when I could vote for what I think is the best. I like neither Kerry nor Bush, but I like the libertarian party and
what they stand for, so I'll be voting for their man. If I had to choose between Bush or Kerry I'd choose Bush, but voting for him in Massachusetts
is pretty pointless anyway. So why not vote for what I really believe in?

Originally posted by Flinx
I know this is a old argument that no one's going to listen too, but a vote for a third party IS a vote wasted. We don't have a parlimentary system
like Canada where a vote for a third (or fourth) party equals seats in the legislature. In our INFERIOR system, a vote for a third party just goes
into the void. The only way things would change is if a massive amount of voters (60-70 percent) selected a third party candidate and elected him or
her President.

So to repeat the old line: a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush. On the other hand a vote for the Facsio-Theocratic...I mean Consitution party is a
vote for Kerry. As for the Libertarians....I suppose the it depends on whether the voter is a more liberal Libertarian or a more conservative
Libertarian.

Now can you really tell me that a vote for Nader wasn't a vote for Bush?

But this is a very important election, probably the most important in our lifetimes. It's not a time for a dammed "protest vote". There is a real
difference between the candidates despite what you hear, and they will take the country in different directions. Pick one. We can do the whole thrid
party thing another time, maybe in four years. NOW IS NOT THE TIME.

Edit: Oh, forgot to add....IMHO.

[edit on 8/1/2004 by Flinx]

Your right.....Im not going to listen to you. Simply because you are wrong! This is a year for a "protest vote", and being an American I will vote
for whom I think can do the job the best. I will not vote for either party just because we "know" that one will win. This and all other elections
are a time to wake up US voters to the fact that we will no longer be controlled by a two party system.

So, I say to you.....maybe your vote is wasted if you vote Kerry or Bush. I'd be a lot more proud to vote my conscious than to vote for one of those
two clueless idiots!

I think telling people voting a third party is a protest vote is just going to piss em off and make em do it even more.

The more time goes by the more people will start looking at third parties because they will realise how full of # libs and cons are and much they sell
the country out for monetary gain... and when I say country I mean to everyday folks that live here.... Last time I checked people could take care of
themselves but neither party thinks thats true, nor do they want people to take care of themselves, so why the hell should I vote for them if they see
me with some mental handicap... That's just retarded...

One thing I DONT tolerate is some lefty pinko trying to tell me how to vote.

First off, I will vote third party, as i always do, and will always do. Why? Because i refuse to play any part in putting either of the two parties in
power. My vote may go in the void, but better it go into the void than support the twisted machinations of the Conservative Republicans or Liberal
Democrats.

I will not play a part in re electing the fascist traitor Bush. Nor will I vote for Kerry, the weak flip flop of a spineless anti American Liberal.

What you seem to fail to realize, Flinx, is that it doesnt matter who you vote for. You said it: Only the two parties will nget electoral votes. Since
I hate both parties with a passion what does it matter who I "waste" my vote on? The will of Americans will be twarted no matter who wins. So who
cares? Until the system changes, it will always be.

And for my fellow third party folks, keep voting third party. Dont listen to this nonsense. Because we alone know its a pointless race anyway, you
lose whether Bush or kerry, twin evils and traitors to America. The only way the third party system has any hope is for us to keep voting our way,
keep pushing them as an option, and eventually, when this syetm crumbles, we shall have our day in the sun.

Well Said Skadi !! I will forever vote 3rd party! Always... My heart belongs there, bush nor kerry get to bite my balls for dinner... And nobody is
going to tell me my vote is useless, especially when I believe in it. I'm not just going to bend over and vote left or right because of some sham of
a bs lie i've been spoonfed... Not buyin it, nope, not ever, ever.. So ya'll can bend over and take it up the ass by bush and kerry, both sides love
#in ya.

Unfortunately its true, at this point in time and in the political arena of USA, a third party vote is wasted. Either choose the lesser of two evils,
or dont bother voting at all, keep the lines shorter for us. I wish a libertarian president would be elected, but that will not happen anytime in the
forseeable future, even if we all voted for a third party, the special interests that run this country would see to it our votes meant nothing. I have
seen this happen here in AZ, the majority voted for medical marijuana, and the Feds stepped in and said, sorry not in our country. Our votes were
ignored. There has to be some BIG changes in this country before anything other than a DEM or REP sets foot in the White House. Its sickening, but we
have to deal with things as they are right now, and right now I think we need to focus on getting Bush out of there, then we can start to collectively
press for change but it will be a long, slow process. First, we will have the monumental task of unifying this multi-level divided population of ours
behind a common cause, then we will have to let the government hear our unified voice and hope it doesnt have to lead to a revolution if they choose
to ignore us. But none of this will occur before November, so please please dont throw your vote away in protest, it doesnt hurt the government at
all...in this years case, it will only help Bush.

For those of you who say a 3rd party vote is wasted, I have to ask you something. What good would it do me to vote for a person who I really don't
want to see in office? Honestly. Shouldn't I, as an American citizen, vote for the person I wan't to see be elected. That is my right, is it
not?

Not voting is apathy and it gets you nowhere. Voting for a third party may be wasted in this election, but it makes a statement. People talk about
"oh well nothing is going to change anytime soon so why vote for a third party," but if you don't vote for a third party and try to change things
now that change will never happen. That same mindset will continue forever, if you don't try to make a change.

A vote is NEVER wasted when it is made in wisdom, knowldge, and conviction that it is the right thing to do.

You people arent getting it. Bush or Kerry will win. Niether is gonna help our country, only doom it further. Some of us dont want any part in it. I
am no better off if Kerry or Bush win. So voting for either is truly wasting the vote. As long as you continue to follow the sheep and stick your
heads in mainstream politics, well be doomed with this system.

I do not embrace mainstream culture. I donot embrace mainstream society. I donot membrace mainstream religion. Nor will I embrace, and in my opinion,
waste my vote on mainstream politicians.

The only vote wasted is the forced vote. Voting for the lesser of evils, in my opinion, is a vote wasted.

I shall not sacrifice my integrity in this election anymore than i would the last few elections. My vote is not wasted. it is one of the few things I
haver left that havent been phased out of the constitution, and Im going to use mine in the only moral and honorable way I know how:

I shall vote for whomever I believe in. That wouldnt be Nader, Kerry, or Bush.

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