You've got to be shitting me PVT Pyle. He called Herbie a "fake Buckeye"? Christ, I hate that I have to try to like this kid. He's old enough to know that it's Herbie's job to try to remain objective about shit and that's why the guy has the best gig in college football to begin with. If he can't realize that, then I have no other option than to assume he's a complete fucking moron.

I particularly like this quote pulled from Livingston's article today:

I told them to look in my eyes. I might not be the best quarterback, and I might not have the best stats, but they know I can definitely lead them.

Yeah, that completely jives with the most recent tweet. What an asshole. Fake modestly blows donkey dick and people can see right through it.

One more year until he can join tWoA's bowling team and we don't have to defend his stupid ass anymore. I absolutely hate that he makes me feel like such a hypocrite for hoping like hell that he can deliver a NC before that.

I blame the BCS. As soon as tOSU lost to Wisconsin the season was basically rendered meaningless. No way they were making the title game, which is always the goal at tOSU. And since the BCS has broken the Rose Bowl, playing for that didn't mean much, either.

So we knew all they were doing is playing out the string with a bunch of non-glamorous Big Ten opponents, then playing another ho-hum bowl game that no one really cares about. Without any superstar players on the team, i.e., without Pryor developing into a superstar and giving us a reason to tune in every week, most of this season has been forgettable.

The team is missing playmakers. End of story. Who is the defensive playmaker? Who is the offensive playmaker? Where is Santonio Holmes, Tedd Ginn, Beanie Wells (when not injured) on offense? Where is the Thad Gibson, Gholston, Jenkins, Hawk, etc. on defense? Homan, Rolle? I would say right now the closest thing is Hines on D.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

TP totally misses the beauty of what Kirk does, and Kirk does it so well it almost reaches the point of annoying (talking about being objective when it comes to OSU football).

As far as TP himself, he lacks most of the special intangibles that often separate the good from the great. He is almost always good (with a lil bit of wha? mixed in) but he is rarely great (at least for a whole 60 minutes). But Furls is right this team lacks other pieces too.

Unfortunately the rest of the program has to deal with TP becoming more and more like LBJ, and frankly we as a society have created those circumstances for those monsters. We anointed him a Heisman winner, GOAT at OSU and a winner before he played in 3 total games.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

and you run into similar issues on the defense, comparing Jenkins to Chekwa and so on.I think we all over estimated the skill on this team. I thought Posey would build on last year, I thought that one of the three freshman WR's would emerge, I thought that TP would progress more as a passer, I thought Williams would emerge as an elite weak side pass rusher, I thought the safety play would be better than it has been (injury induced).

In short, this team, that I thought could be an NCG contender is actually just the second best team in the Big Ten and to be honest with you this team reminds me a lot of the 2004 Buckeyes, which also lacked pop and an identity. The big difference between that "bad" team and this team is that there is more offensive continuity and the "non-skill" players are MUCH better. This team is just ordinary, for an OSU team.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

The most significant difference between the two is HOW they are used and HOW they are used in specific spots on the field. Pryor wants to be used more like a pocket passer and JT is using him that way, despite it not always being the best way to use TP. TP is a more accomplished passer, not a perfected one by any means. The one big thing about VY is his legacy b/c he did win a title, but the memory most have of him being a passer is subjective and down right cloudy, the kid was pretty bad at times, decent at others, he had many a pass land in the 915.

Young earned the right to be remembered as superior, no doubt (despite getting crushed in the Heisman like no other second place voter ever did) but it is just not intellectuality honest to say they are so different in terms of production.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

And dude, every single thread in the history of this website is truly a "Who really gives a shit" thread.

Herbstriet is a hack that can't say what he really thinks because it might offend the gods at ESECPNYCBOSTON. Him being "objective" is an act.

And it wasn't a shot at you. (although I must admit to being used to your gold medal standard of posting and the "Jock X says some dumb shit on twatter" shit isn't up to your grade) IMHO that is.

Plus i'm a homer honk that thinks anyone who talks smack about my Bucks should be beaten sock full of padlocks.

Not taking it as a personal shot at my posting standards because I clearly shit excellence in that thread starting regard.

I'm sticking with your last paragraph as truth.

Look- Here's the thing I'd like TP to do: STFU and show up to the biggest game of the year. I know it's unfair when he eats the shitty end of the gun for one loss, but that's how you're measured. He sounds like a bitch using twitter to cry about Herbstreit and the haters.

I'll tell you what these issues with Pryor from his mouth to his attitude to ahis play has buckeye fans all riled up everywhere.

This is an extremely divisive topic right now in general.

Furls, I agree that this team doesn't have as much juice at the skill positions, but that is, IMO, a moot point when I watch TP refusing to go through reads and not see wide open receivers - A LOT OF THEM - including on critical 3rd downs. When I watch him throwing ground balls to WR's and making Dane play above his head to make what should be very easy catches, when I watch TP throw stupifying picks and then bitch and moan like a 2 year old like it was someone elses fault -

I can't help but think you must be watching some other team if you think the skill positions are making a big difference. I think Pryor's play took a serious nose dive when he hurt his quad against Illinois.

Globally speaking, has he passed well against a good defense yet? Closest I'd say was PSU last season, it was a very minimal performance but good against that defense in that spot. Other than that, take a look at his game logs. There is a hell of a dip whenever we play D with a pulse.

IMO this team is good enough that it would have befitted more from a steadier hand than freak athleticism at that position, at least this season, which hasn't been the case the last 2 seasons.

I think he's regressed significantly since the Ill game this season, and he will probably benefit GREATLY from the bowl practices and break to get his head on straight. I expect to see a much improved (more like the beginning of the season) pryor in the bowl game this season.

Coz a quick question for you, how are you so certain that TP is bitching an moaning AT his team mates when he makes a bad throw? From what I have seen from the kid he is pretty hard on himself and often times it looks like he is yelling out loud in disappointment of himself more than in blame of others?

Also kind of a bad week to choose the "TP has regressed in passing POV" when he hit three big passes to WIDE OPEN WR and they totally muffed the catch(es).

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

FUDU wrote:Coz a quick question for you, how are you so certain that TP is bitching an moaning AT his team mates when he makes a bad throw? From what I have seen from the kid he is pretty hard on himself and often times it looks like he is yelling out loud in disappointment of himself more than in blame of others?

Also kind of a bad week to choose the "TP has regressed in passing POV" when he hit three big passes to WIDE OPEN WR and they totally muffed the catch(es).

Pft. No it isn't, did you watch the whole game? Three passes dropped doesn't make up for two BONEHEADED, awful picks.

This goes back at least five games. I don't jump on players normally FUDU, he's just been playing poorly for several weeks.

Forgive me when I don't hail Pryor as a hero when he had a heavy hand in putting us in that scenario in the first place.

First 6 games he has 3 picks, last 5 he has 7. His decision making has gone in the shitter for the most part. He needs a break, go back to some fundamentals for a few weeks, he will probably look reborn in the bowl game.

To say he hasn't been terribly inconsistent and made poor decisions the last 5 games in particular is disingenuous IMO.

I don't disagree he still makes way too many poor decisions, but to say he has regressed is absurd IMO, hasn't continued to progress is more like it. Again though on his being a bad team mate, not sure when a fan not on the sideline can come up with that conclusion.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

FUDU wrote:I don't disagree he still makes way too many poor decisions, but to say he has regressed is absurd IMO, hasn't continued to progress is more like it. Again though on his being a bad team mate, not sure when a fan not on the sideline can come up with that conclusion.

Take a look at his numbers the last 5 games.

Beyond that I see a clear regression. I see worse decisions and a poorer job progressing through reads than I saw in the first 6 games.

You can make you own judgments or whatever on the hissy fits. He throws them fairly consistently. he's a Junior with more starting experience than most QB's ever get in college.

I did not say he was a bad teammate. Certainly not a great leader yet though.

FUDU wrote:I don't disagree he still makes way too many poor decisions, but to say he has regressed is absurd IMO, hasn't continued to progress is more like it. Again though on his being a bad team mate, not sure when a fan not on the sideline can come up with that conclusion.

Take a look at his numbers the last 5 games.

Beyond that I see a clear regression. I see worse decisions and a poorer job progressing through reads than I saw in the first 6 games.

You can make you own judgments or whatever on the hissy fits. He throws them fairly consistently. he's a Junior with more starting experience than most QB's ever get in college.

I did not say he was a bad teammate. Certainly not a great leader yet though.

Haven't they played a lot better teams in the last 5 games than they did in the first 6?

FUDU wrote:I don't disagree he still makes way too many poor decisions, but to say he has regressed is absurd IMO, hasn't continued to progress is more like it. Again though on his being a bad team mate, not sure when a fan not on the sideline can come up with that conclusion.

Take a look at his numbers the last 5 games.

Beyond that I see a clear regression. I see worse decisions and a poorer job progressing through reads than I saw in the first 6 games.

You can make you own judgments or whatever on the hissy fits. He throws them fairly consistently. he's a Junior with more starting experience than most QB's ever get in college.

I did not say he was a bad teammate. Certainly not a great leader yet though.

Haven't they played a lot better teams in the last 5 games than they did in the first 6?

Yes they have and really, it isn't about the stats for me, and I can't make my point with just stats

Stats say the PSU game was one of his best of the year and I feel like it was one of the worst. Conversely people like to point at stats against PSU and Iowa last season and say he blew, and I think those were both good games for him.

I think earlier in the year he was making allot of good decisions and that was what I sited as a major improvement. Well, he's not making great decisions anymore, or maybe the teams he is playing are capitalizing more, I'd have to go back and look.

Meh, immature kid. We all say stupid shit. I still do. He hasn't learned how to develop a censor yet because everyone's blown him his entire life and he's got a superiority complex, like there are zero repercussions for what he says/does. This isn't Rick Pitino, a grown man, comparing Louisville basketball and his personal situation to 9/11.

It really doesn't matter to me what he says, as long as he wins between the white lines.

I'm a Herbstreit backer, far from CDT's take on him. He has to do what he has to do. At least he's not blatantly anti-Ohio State like Mark May. Herbstreit is an excellent analyst, a very good Gameday member, and gives credit where credit is due regardless of what two teams are playing.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

skatingtripods wrote:Meh, immature kid. We all say stupid shit. I still do. He hasn't learned how to develop a censor yet because everyone's blown him his entire life and he's got a superiority complex, like there are zero repercussions for what he says/does. This isn't Rick Pitino, a grown man, comparing Louisville basketball and his personal situation to 9/11.

It really doesn't matter to me what he says, as long as he wins between the white lines.

I'm a Herbstreit backer, far from CDT's take on him. He has to do what he has to do. At least he's not blatantly anti-Ohio State like Mark May. Herbstreit is an excellent analyst, a very good Gameday member, and gives credit where credit is due regardless of what two teams are playing.

Exactly. Raise your hand if you didn't say some serious stupid shit when you were 21. Lucky we didn't have Twitter to immortalize all of it in the freakin' Library of Congress.

I like Herbie too, and he's all Buckeye, but he does have a fine line to walk, and OSU people never seem to be satisfied that he won't openly flack for OSU on national TV.

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

danwismar wrote:I like Herbie too, and he's all Buckeye, but he does have a fine line to walk, and OSU people never seem to be satisfied that he won't openly flack for OSU on national TV.

I still remember when Herbie was the only one on the face of the earth to pick the Buckeyes to beat Miami in the NC Fiesta Bowl. I also remember seeing him going nuts on the sideline during that game. Dude is a Buckeye.

The first time I remember him picking against the Bucks was the next season when we went to Camp Randle at night. I remember callers calling 1460 (I think) in CBus to complain about him going against the Buckeyes, completely ignoring the fact that he was right.

I think Herbie walks the line about as well as it's possible to walk it. And, I like the fact that if he is praising the Buckeyes and picking them to win, it isn't a homer pick.

skatingtripods wrote:Meh, immature kid. We all say stupid shit. I still do. He hasn't learned how to develop a censor yet because everyone's blown him his entire life and he's got a superiority complex, like there are zero repercussions for what he says/does. This isn't Rick Pitino, a grown man, comparing Louisville basketball and his personal situation to 9/11.

It really doesn't matter to me what he says, as long as he wins between the white lines.

I'm a Herbstreit backer, far from CDT's take on him. He has to do what he has to do. At least he's not blatantly anti-Ohio State like Mark May. Herbstreit is an excellent analyst, a very good Gameday member, and gives credit where credit is due regardless of what two teams are playing.

Exactly. Raise your hand if you didn't say some serious stupid shit when you were 21. Lucky we didn't have Twitter to immortalize all of it in the freakin' Library of Congress.

I like Herbie too, and he's all Buckeye, but he does have a fine line to walk, and OSU people never seem to be satisfied that he won't openly flack for OSU on national TV.

My 10, 12 and 16 yr old daughters understand what should be expressed on Facebook and what should not if issues are to be avoided and they are to maintain their ability to interact online.

We'll take it on faith that he's a leader of teammates and capable of digesting a playbook and progressions but he's not bright enough to understand the ramifications of taking a direct and pissy shot at a commentator who happens to live in Columbus?

Okay. I'm not around him so I'll leave it at that. But I believe he knew exactly what he was doing and saying.

I'm not out to bury the kid over it because, like you guys say, we've all regretted something we've said or written. But to whom much is given much is expected and TP needs to be accountable for it too.

JacksonDysonJackson wrote:But this Buckeyes team is just...missing something. Hard to put a finger on it exactly.

How bout a good QB? Pryor has to be the most overrated Buckeye of all time.

Either that, or he's the difference between 10-1 vs 6-5 this year. He is the ONLY real playmaker they have compared to teams of the past. His athleticism is so much higher than the opposition. He's a very good college QB with the potential to be great.

That in no way means it will translate to the NFL, but I could care less about how he plays once he leaves tOSU. College and Pro QBs are apples and oranges. Like him or not, he's what is keeping this team afloat. And if the Buckeyes go to and win another BCS bowl this year he will be THE reason.

peeker643 wrote:My 10, 12 and 16 yr old daughters understand what should be expressed on Facebook and what should not if issues are to be avoided and they are to maintain their ability to interact online.

Raised differently and under a different environment. Like I said, Pryor's entire life has been blessed by his athletic talents. Nothing he says can take that away from him so, in his mind, what he does/says is invincible and without repercussion, especially hiding behind electronic media.

We'll take it on faith that he's a leader of teammates and capable of digesting a playbook and progressions but he's not bright enough to understand the ramifications of taking a direct and pissy shot at a commentator who happens to live in Columbus?

Quite honestly, probably not. Why are most of these football players dumbasses? All they can do is read X's and O's instead of a book.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

JacksonDysonJackson wrote:But this Buckeyes team is just...missing something. Hard to put a finger on it exactly.

How bout a good QB? Pryor has to be the most overrated Buckeye of all time.

Either that, or he's the difference between 10-1 vs 6-5 this year. He is the ONLY real playmaker they have compared to teams of the past. His athleticism is so much higher than the opposition. He's a very good college QB with the potential to be great.

That in no way means it will translate to the NFL, but I could care less about how he plays once he leaves tOSU. College and Pro QBs are apples and oranges. Like him or not, he's what is keeping this team afloat. And if the Buckeyes go to and win another BCS bowl this year he will be THE reason.

And, if that happens, I don't know how you call him overrated.

The numbers up thread back it up, he is a good college QB. The problem is again what we've anointed him prior to him reaching that actualization, a great college QB. He's been labeled as having the potential to be great and something special for 3.5 years now, and most fans have just assumed he is and will be and now that he is not (up to this point) people want to label him in such a way (mostly as disappointing) to suggest he isn't even "good". That is absurd, but that is how it works, if a hyped up player doesn't reach their potential they get viewed as a bust or an under achiever when in fact they most often can and do perform at a high than average level.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

I was being a bit tongue in cheek about him not being good, but I did get a good laugh when it was headline news that he was coming back for his senior season. The words "No Shit" come to mind.

Either that, or he's the difference between 10-1 vs 6-5 this year. He is the ONLY real playmaker they have compared to teams of the past. His athleticism is so much higher than the opposition. He's a very good college QB with the potential to be great.

I disagree with the ability to be great. But I guess we'll know the answer next year.

I see a lot of sizzle, but no steak. I see an above average scrambler, but below average passing accuracy. Too many scud missles into the turf for a 3-yr starter.

JacksonDysonJackson wrote:I was being a bit tongue in cheek about him not being good, but I did get a good laugh when it was headline news that he was coming back for his senior season. The words "No Shit" come to mind.

Either that, or he's the difference between 10-1 vs 6-5 this year. He is the ONLY real playmaker they have compared to teams of the past. His athleticism is so much higher than the opposition. He's a very good college QB with the potential to be great.

I disagree with the ability to be great. But I guess we'll know the answer next year.

I see a lot of sizzle, but no steak. I see an above average scrambler, but below average passing accuracy. Too many scud missles into the turf for a 3-yr starter.

Personally, I'd take Troy Smith and Craig Krenzel over him any day.

I'll take Troy Smith over anyone.

And, please don't interpret this as a slam against Krenzel, but do you really think that this team is 10-1 with him behind center instead of TP? I sure as hell don't.

JacksonDysonJackson wrote:I was being a bit tongue in cheek about him not being good, but I did get a good laugh when it was headline news that he was coming back for his senior season. The words "No Shit" come to mind.

Either that, or he's the difference between 10-1 vs 6-5 this year. He is the ONLY real playmaker they have compared to teams of the past. His athleticism is so much higher than the opposition. He's a very good college QB with the potential to be great.

I disagree with the ability to be great. But I guess we'll know the answer next year.

I see a lot of sizzle, but no steak. I see an above average scrambler, but below average passing accuracy. Too many scud missles into the turf for a 3-yr starter.

Personally, I'd take Troy Smith and Craig Krenzel over him any day.

I'll take Troy Smith over anyone.

And, please don't interpret this as a slam against Krenzel, but do you really think that this team is 10-1 with him behind center instead of TP? I sure as hell don't.

But do the Buckeyes run the table in 02' with TP?

Probably impossible to live up to the hype. Disappointed in his development as a passer. Can still be considered a good college QB and overrated. He was a Heisman favorite at one time for example - this would be the definition of overrated.

Like LeBron, the whole worlds been kissing Pryors ass since he's been 13. In a lot of ways, he's an idiot. Most telling statement for me was after the Wisconsin loss when he said that the Buckeyes would beat them 9 out of 10 times and how they didn't take the Badgers seriously enough.

At Wisconsin. Not taking em seriously enough. What games you gonna take seriously TP?

Don't get me wrong, I am a Buckeye fan first. I live and die with Pryor's every snap on Saturdays. I bought my kid a #2 jersey.

But he's got a long way to go before he's anywhere near Troy Smith on my love list of Buckeye football players.

Bottom line, with his physical ability, he's been a slight disappointment to this point. Not a big disappointment. A slight one. It is what it is.

"It's like dating a woman who hates you so much she will never break up with you, even if you burn down the house every single autumn." ~ Chuck Klosterman on Browns fans relationship with the Browns

Don't disagree with a word of Swerb's take...including the disappointment in Pryor.

As for those criticizing him for "not showing up" against Wisconsin, I'll just say that he definitely didn't show up on the kickoff coverage team to start the game, nor did he show up on the defensive unit that got shredded for two long TD drives in the first half.

At worst, Terrelle Pryor shares the blame for losing the Wisconsin game with lots of other players and coaches. Defense and special teams put the Buckeyes behind 21-3 more than TP's performance.

OSU is not a come from behind team. I'm not 100% sure of the accuracy of this, but I read the other day that Ohio State had not won a single game in the Jim Tressel decade in which they trailed by 10 points or more, until Penn State two weeks ago. If anyone can remember an exception to this, please let me know below.

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

danwismar wrote:Don't disagree with a word of Swerb's take...including the disappointment in Pryor.

As for those criticizing him for "not showing up" against Wisconsin, I'll just say that he definitely didn't show up on the kickoff coverage team to start the game, nor did he show up on the defensive unit that got shredded for two long TD drives in the first half.

At worst, Terrelle Pryor shares the blame for losing the Wisconsin game with lots of other players and coaches. Defense and special teams put the Buckeyes behind 21-3 more than TP's performance.

OSU is not a come from behind team. I'm not 100% sure of the accuracy of this, but I read the other day that Ohio State had not won a single game in the Jim Tressel decade in which they trailed by 10 points or more, until Penn State two weeks ago. If anyone can remember an exception to this, please let me know below.

2003 Fiesta Bowl, IIRC they were down 40-0 before kick off.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"