Maverick is in an interesting position. Its arch nemesis is Miracles, which continues to be "the deck" of big events. If you face a room full of delver.dec and SFM.dec, Maverick is very capable of taking them on. However, Miracles is just a nightmare. Fast combo like Storm and Omni-Tell are winnable but difficult without dedicated SB materials. The rest of the meta is a toss-up (including reanimator, regular show-tell, DnT, burn, elves, etc). To be competitive in the metagame, Maverick needs 3 colors. I think the pure GW lists are impossible to win events nowadays.

3 players from my neck of the woods in the top 8. Glad to see Bryant and Jeremy doing so well. Never saw a deck tech spend so much time ogling over the literal cards on the table. Then again, if you know Bryant, you understand his 75 is a work of art.

I like that he enables your 5+ drops to also attack immediately, so I definitely think he's worth testing. For now, I'm going to try replacing Vengevine, but I still think Vengevine is the better card.

I guess I differ from the Hivehind a bit. I think this card is 'meh' and doesn't compare to the 4 listed in the quote. He's got upside against every Baloth and Blastoderm but IHMO the ability doesn't hit the same power level as the above 4.

Tossing my hat into the ring on this one.
The general consensus from WotC (namely MaRo) is that counterspell isn't where the game should travel back towards. It represents a playstyle and philosophy that, for one reason or another, the company doesn't want to visit. They have enough marketing metrics that probably show players preferring permanents (creatures and walkers) over spells/counterspells.

Personally, I would grow more interested in Modern if it included the original Counterspell. The card is incredibly tame. If UU for "counter target spell" is deemed 'too good' while some of the bestcreatureseverprintedareallowed, there's simply a bias favoring permanents over spells. For those fearing decks running 12-16x counters, that's been a core philosophy of MTG since its inception (blue-based control). I don't see that being "bad" for the format. Counterspell just gives you another playable card in a not-so-traveled corner of deck design.

The best compromises in design space would be arcane denial and memory lapse (stated by others) or daze. With Daze, you have a tempo force-spike. Despite my legacy bias, I am not suggesting Force of Will follow. I think Daze by itself could be interesting to introduce as an alternative.

I really dig everything about this Liliana. I love the concept of creature --> PWer. I love the DFC/flipping. I love the art. I think her costs to powerlevel is great. LOVE IT. Let's hope she is an indicator for the rest of the product.

She does seem well balanced and the flavor for her flip trigger is pretty awesome. She'll play great with zombie Sidisi and any other good Exploit cards that get printed in DTK, too.

Yea, she oozes with flavor and synergizes in-set. Again, I hope she is telling of how good the entire product line will be. Do we have confirmation of Origins pushing mono color? Could she team up with BW or BR or will she be mono-B?

I really dig everything about this Liliana. I love the concept of creature --> PWer. I love the DFC/flipping. I love the art. I think her costs to powerlevel is great. LOVE IT. Let's hope she is an indicator for the rest of the product.

The most appealing aspect of this card is how lackluster the deeper options for white 4cc creatures is. There's Hero of Bladehold, Restoration Angel and Exalted Angel (if you classify it as a 4-drop). Then there's some okay utility creatures like Kor Sanctifiers and maybe Academy Rector, depending on your needs. But the true tier-2 guys like Jazal Goldmane, Sublime Archangel and Ranger of Eos were never super impressive to me, so I could see this guy seeing more testing than he would if there was a grip of better options.

This is kinda where I was going. I'd rather have a 2/3/5 drop --- where "second tier" cards of those costs are more appealing than this 4-drop

This is no Sigarda or Armada Wurm, IMO. Looks like a multicolor 6-drop that just dies to every relevant piece of removal. If WG control is a big thing for your group (which would be rare) and you want an additional control-specific finisher to accompany Sigarda, this would be a fine choice. But it's a reasonable way for non-blue control decks to get an edge against blue control.

Word. Sigarda's Hexproof and more aggressive cc = GG for many opponents. This just is just a big fat dragon. Dies to tons of removal and IMHO has no relevant/significant effects a backbreaking 6 drop needs. Even the Titans do something considerable if they bite the bullet immediately. Sigarda is the premier GW beater. wtwlf123 has great points on why you'd want to include this dragon thing in addition to Sigarda, but it doesn't dethrone her.

I probably am underselling the instant speed graveyard recursion and lifegain options, and it might take some testing to be sure, but do you think Ojutai's Command ranks above any of the following five Azorius cards?

Whether my multi-color non-lands are top 3, top 4, or top 5....they all rank ahead of this new O-Command. I still think Verdict is the best card for either color. #2 / 3 / 4 are preference with what you want that color to do. Geist is the never-bad beater. Sphere and Venser are great accents to what U and/or W want. Revelation caters to the UW control playstyle. All of these cards do a much better job for [Blue splashing White], [White splashing blue], and [Blue and White.dec] in most cubes than O-Command IMHO.

It's a toss-up. Both can give RG the ability to race. If anything, this card opens up routes for Naya (GWR) -- something I've been looking to do. I could see Naya aggro being a thing with this card + 2 [non-4 drop Gruul cards].

The larger issue is whether you want RG to be represented by mid-rangey shenanigans like Bloodbraid, Domri, Huntmaster, etc or "kill things with an aggressive curve". Red 1 and 2 drops are, by default, aggro. Green 1 and 2 drops are mana dorks or aggressive 2/x things, scooze, and goyf.

Auto-include. My section for R 1-drops is getting crowded. I will need to consult the "This or That" thread once Zurgo comes out. I feel we have a critical mass....and I'm only running Modern Face cards.

I'm all over the blue Stratus morph dude. This guy not so much. He needs testing because I can't eyeball whether he is relevant in games or not. On paper we can argue either way. I would need to see how he plays out. The interesting thing is that his morph ability is relevant for a large % of cube creatures (especially with more cube staples being powerful bears). I am not going to slam or reject this guy. He needs testing and anecdotal evidence IMHO

I really like the ability, but the name is truly terrible. It is clear that they wanted to keep "morph" as a part of its name, just like they kept "cycling" for its variants (like Mountaincycling or Basic landcycling). That is actually a good idea, since it makes the ability instantly easier to understand. However, couldn't they come up with a better word than "mega"?

I agree with you. Guess R&D felt "awesome morph", "super morph", and "mighty morphin' morph" weren't as appealing as "mega morph".
The question I ask myself is for smaller cubes what gets cut. It may indeed warrant a small "package" of blue to come in. Willbender, Voidmage, and this thing round out a solid "creatures who can counter spells" posse. Alternatively, you could just increase the presence of morphers in the cube in general (not just blue). If you play simply good stuff in cubes, I think this card is still viable -- even if everyone knows what lies beneath the 2/2 colorless shell. As others are mentioning, it can fend off sweepers/removal/bomb spells while you stay the aggressor. That's a really big deal. Plus it's 2/1 flying for 2cc...good stats for a color that's generally weak with low mana.

Had to rush to this part of MTGS to confirm I wasn't the only person thinking this is big. I love it for all the reasons you say. It also works for blue control as just another versatile critter + counterspell. At worst, this thing is a decent flyer for 1U.

...Just wanted to get your guys input on this list. There is also 1 more slot available ,but I couldn't think of anything to put in maybe the 4th Thalia? Not sure.

Any suggestions and criticisms are greatly appreciated.

1) What are you facing? Lists on their own do very little.
2) No dryad arbor makes me sad
3) 22 lands, no dryad, only 4 mana dorks is pushing your lands down quite low. Thalia on top of non-creature spells exacerbates the problem.

Trample is very valuable with the equipment. So is double-strike. I'm debating if I wanna go back to Mirran Crusaders -- especially if BUG comes back into the mix. The other option is Siege Rhino, who is a goddamn tank of a 4/5.

I am currently trying to figure out a reason why you'd run Tasigur over Tombstalker in pretty much any deck including and outside of Maverick.

The reason is because he:
-Doesn't cost BB (which is good for BUx that play TNN or Ux cards)
-Comes out T3 easily compared to T3 ideally
-can generate easy card advantage at instant speed

The karakas problem may be enough to keep him out, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he showed up competitively. People hardcast FoW all the time, getting free cards while being immune to 2/3rds of the removal is good. The fact that it is runnable in UBx and BGx is attractive. You also can use him to dodge cascades, use him next to Pernicious Deed, and get around counterbalance; which all make him nice in a Goyf slot.

Looks like a big win-more. My opinions:
- Delve cost will usually come at the expense of KotR being a threat
- STP/PTE/Stifle in the meta may negate the usefulness of this guy
- Not an immediate threat/doesn't do anything to suddenly impact the game (the only exception to this rule is Progenitus due to NO-->Pro being an option if you wanted spice)
- Not green (can't zenith or NO)

The biggest question I pose is the tried and true "what do you cut for him?" with the follow-up "does his inclusion > card you cut = makes the deck better?"

I'll be playing for the first time since the GP this upcoming weekend (been a lull in the region in terms of events and my own availability). I really hope UR delver wanes in popularity but also see the deck as being strong. It's not like TC made the entire deck...it just pushed a style of UR delver to the top. More traditional tempo UR will certainly remain.

What fills the void? I'm fearing combo and tempo after a larger representation of midrange/fair stuff.

There's been a lot of banter on Facebook recently about the upcoming B/R and its associated speculation. The top players in my meta are of the opinion 1) cards will be unbanned and 2) Survival makes a comeback because of how many "answers" exist since its departure. It's really time WotC bring back some cards. Land Tax came back and didn't warp the format. I think some of the "lesser disputed" cards like 'Vise and 'Twist should come back into the format.

If I were WotC, I would make some kind of statement about cards that are on the proverbial fence (both legal and illegal for the format when the announcement is made). There has been a plethora of bitching and moaning about cards that toe the line. I would say "we are looking very closely at X, Y, and Z because of their continual rise in power level with each new set". My 'watch list' includes Show and Tell, Delver, "aggressive filters/draw" (bstorm, ponder, g.probe, top, TC). At the same time, some cards like Survival and Mind's Desire may come down in power due to quality answers being printed. Both these cards are too close to make an unbanning IMHO and I'd make an announcement saying they may come back but now isn't the time"

I would bring back Survival only if we simultaneously banned the annoying crap like Vengevine and/or Necrotic Ooze that abuses it. Friends made great counterpoints on Facebook about how strong legacy staple cards are nowadays at combating SotF. Although there's more hate/answers, I'm not 100% sure. I certainly wouldn't want the meta to warp around VV-Survival as it did several years ago. Again, my conservative call would be to just announce Survival as a "we're watching the card closely and may indeed bring it back".

I agree with basically everything Lormordor says. Nobody is respecting the grave, leading to Knights being easily double digit later on. My issue is evasion: stopping delver and/or flying over a clogged board.

I don't mind the skewing toward more FRF because it's new and shiny, but I just it wasn't so ridiculously skewed. Why couldn't it have been 3 FRF, 2 KTK, and the Seeded one consisting of mostly/entirely FRF?

I totally agree with your logic here. 4 Boosters and a Seeded forces me to play to the "set" rather than the "block". It's annoying when the balance of a pre-release is incredibly skewed...just as you point out.

@Nostra:
You can remove Thalia but what you replace her with greatly impacts future outcomes. The reason Maverick is played is because it puts up a fair fight across nearly all decks (fast combo being the only crushing archetype we inherently can't beat). Punishing has show some success since Khans because the format is basically delver/pyromancer, miracles, and grindy stuff.dec. Dark Maverick is also strong because it beats those very decks, albeit in a slightly different fashion (sweepers, decays, etc).

I agree with Tescrin that once you cut Thalia, you start the progression towards Junk. I think Junk is at a tremendous disadvantage right now. Discard only fuels treasure cruise (since Junk doesn't win fast). Goyf isn't as feared due to the top creatures being run right now (delver, pyromancer + tokens to chump for days, swiftspear, mother of runes, Stoneforge, etc). Other Junk threats such as Confidant and Liliana get killed by burn spells and decay. Burn's rise is the primary reason I shifted away from Maverick + Confidant builds.

Honestly, I believe Mom, Thalia, KotR, and Wasteland are the core of the deck. I start with that core 16 and build out from there. If I didn't want Thalia, I'd play another deck. You may also want to look into Aggro Loam or some Aggro Loam Maverick hybrids that have been floating around.

@anerica: Not a fan of building the deck in that manner. You put no words/directions alongside it either. If I'm going with Dark Maverick, I build the deck quite differently. For a wide variety of lists, I even disagree with the shell presented.

This set has a disturbing number of these low CMC, high utility dudes at mythic. Kind of the opposite wizard's statements that they'd attempt to keep a lid on 4-of constructed staples at that rarity.

I share this exact sentiment. This card is going to do well in limited because it's one of those "answer me or die" threats. The card scales well throughout the game. As for constructed, I see it having a home in newer formats (standard, modern). Overall, I'm baffled at the cost-to-power ratio of this set. Mythics are just dominating this set.

The aforementioned cards work best as a package deal. There will probably be a bias against Mardu if you're evaluating it in isolation. I think you need to pick what you want black as a cube-color to do first. Mardu either plays to that role or it slips to a tier 1.5/2. If you're looking for just "black goodstuff at 3cc" I am not sure he makes the cut. It's a damn good card though.

This is not a new trend, but you're seeing select cards interact with the "removed from game" zone. We've had it since Arabian Nights' Ring of Ma'rûf -- so let's put that into perspective. The Judgment "wish" cycle changed how powerful/consistent "removed from game" zone can be. Recently, we've had the blue flyer who combos with Food Chain. That dude is particularly annoying and so is this new card (assuming it's real) because their recursion is infinite. I disapprove of this particular "even if it's removed from the game it can just come back" design space...but let's not look at "cards can come from RFG zone" as "new".

In cube organization, I slot everything in "as plays". So Spectral Procession and Call of the Herd are both in my creatures section. X spells (and other spells with variable costs like Tombstalker) should probably all be voted together. The same for color aligned lands.

I agree with the spirit of what you describe. Procession and Call are "creatures" just like Sarcomancy. However, how do you classify phyrexian metamorph or Porcelain Legionnaire? I am assuming you say the phyrexian mana = the -2 life option? Does this make them all colorless? What about Exalted Angel (one of my favorite cards of all time)? Is she 3cc, 4cc for her morph, or 6cc? These questions are important for the project IMHO.

I think there are too many sacrifice and RFG effects in cube, which push the effects of this card down. If you ran a lower power-level cube, this starts gaining steam IMHO. Had this come out a few years ago, we may have had a different argument. I really like the flexibility of [removal] or [protection]...but cubes pack cards "just better" than this.

How are you classifying Noble Hierarch and those "could be a hybrid/gold" cards? This would heavily play into my T10 for green. I understand the loam lion/kird ape thing. Same for @willdice mentioning Sarcomancy as a "creature" (since we can all agree it functionally is)

I have pondered about Chord in Maverick but there are 2 big obstacles in the way:
1. Does Chord > card you cut make Maverick better? I usually stop here.
2. How well does Chord interact with Maverick's actual board-states?
Anecdotal evidence has me thinking I land 3 creatures table by turn 4. On rare occasion, said creatures are 2x knights + another strong beater. Sometimes it's 3x dorks. It's more common to have a mix of dorks and beaters. Turn 4 is when Maverick really "turns on" and either turns the table or delivers the killing blow. It's also a realistic turn for Chord to come online for anything substantial. I wouldn't want to sacrifice turns of beating down on the opponent to convoke-cast Chord. Additionally, I win half my games thanks to [Thalia + Wasteland]. That winning duo works against Chord because I'm inflating casting costs.

I've seen one of chord do wonders in elves. But elves doesn't really have any "hidden" tricks so it might just be how surprising it is to have something happen from the opponent's hand instead of cards in play.

I think you're missing the points I'm emphasizing. Elves is a different animal...not to mention it doesn't rely on the Thalia + Wasteland combo. Elves.dec is all about churning out a handful of dorks and convert that to a game-winning bomb creature. For elves, a single Chord makes sense, as their team taps for mana anyways (plus they can also untap each other).

I have pondered about Chord in Maverick but there are 2 big obstacles in the way:
1. Does Chord > card you cut make Maverick better? I usually stop here.
2. How well does Chord interact with Maverick's actual board-states?
Anecdotal evidence has me thinking I land 3 creatures table by turn 4. On rare occasion, said creatures are 2x knights + another strong beater. Sometimes it's 3x dorks. It's more common to have a mix of dorks and beaters. Turn 4 is when Maverick really "turns on" and either turns the table or delivers the killing blow. It's also a realistic turn for Chord to come online for anything substantial. I wouldn't want to sacrifice turns of beating down on the opponent to convoke-cast Chord. Additionally, I win half my games thanks to [Thalia + Wasteland]. That winning duo works against Chord because I'm inflating casting costs.

So, how is everyone faring against these UWR Blade decks? I have been having a little bit of trouble with the matchup.

Short Answer: I very rarely lose to Jeskai Delver.
Longer Answer: I'd need to know both your deck list and your play style.

For example, I run only six basics, 4 fetches, and Noble Hierarchs. This gives me very strong resiliency to Stifles, Wastelands, and Daze effects. When realize that this is his game plan I favor using Green Sun's to search for Heirarchs and relying on topdecks for fatties. But if he's more aggressive in his plan A and relies on Delvers and True-Names, then I become a very equipment focused deck relying heavily on evasion + equipment. I also run the Dark Depths combo allowing me to, with minor preparation, win games I out to have lost.

But a large part of it is to read your opponent's playstyle, and then emphasize your deck's options to break their crux. I rely on having 4 Stoneforge + 4 Green Sun to adapt my playstyle with DD combo as my plan B in case I fall behind.

Again, it depends upon the UWR build. Fighting against stifles, swords, and wastelands = not a good DD situation. Nevertheless, the card can singlehandedly win as it flies over TNN & co. If they have delver, you have some extra pre-requisites.

Depends upon their build. If they are slow/grindy, I pull Thalia's out (shocker) for Armageddon + sweepers/removal. They all need mana to function. If they are banking on TNN you can profit from ZP and Toxic. If they are banking on SFM, you know QPM alongside kgrips/decays works well. If they are fast like patriot delver with SFM a thrown in, you need to stabilize more than anything. Mom + QPM + large KotR/Scooze tend to race them. Spot removal can handle anything they throw at you except TNN. Ethersworn Canonist is also a strong card (better than Thalia) as their deck durdles a lot. Oh, and remember to run out Sylvan Library as fast as possible.

Herzog's shell is the real deal. I've done well with it at SCG Syracuse and GPNJ (check out my grinder winner). I don't agree with everything he says but his sentiments of Maverick holding its own in the meta is certainly true

I am really disappointed in what SCG is doing -- especially after attending GPNJ. 4000+ sat down to play a 2-day legacy event. That's such an accomplishment in the history of Magic, let alone Legacy. To turn around and heavily reduce exposure of Legacy moving forward bothers me. I also like watching the legacy stream from time to time.
As a player who really plays only competitive legacy, I'm very upset. I enjoy the format immensely. I don't like where the game is going (as a whole). I also despise 2-day events. I do not want to see 15-rounders being the "new normal". I hope the bigger shops around me fill in the void for 5 to 9 round legacy events. Mini GPs for a SCG just isn't worth it. If this situation doesn't change, I'd cash out for good.

The larger issue comes back to how all these cards interact together/how the format plays. Thank you for pointing this out to others who think Brainstorm is the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back.

Updates: They are dealing with issues around drops (of 4,000+ players, this is a big deal).
As of 11:20am they are readying round 1. They basically made a round 0 to sift through hundreds of "sign ups and drop" situations. Features on camera and "in coverage" will start round 1. Features should be good to go. They have like 4 feature tables.

There's more combo here than anticipated. If grinders and last chance qualifiers signal anything, it's that dredge and enchantress type "lower tier combo" will be out in droves. This is my immediate observation through most of today

I don't think Humility is fast enough in Maverick and I am a turn faster than DnT in the mana department to muscle one out. I too am curious about EE because the UR delver + miracles matchups have been horrendous for me.

@redtwister:
Honestly, if you like the SB for the serious final list you posted I'd run out a CJ and call it a day. Personally, I think you can do better than Harm's way. Both Sunlance and PTE act as better spot removal. If EE is strong (awaiting a response from someone on this, see above), I could see you pulling bomb + harm for 2 EE and running a CJ or WLL as the final spot. I think WLL in the 75 is a must. It stops lots of sweepers

That's an interesting SB strategy. I usually keep Fire/Ice, as Pro-red is very important (usually being the way I push through them). Strapping Fire/Ice on Thalia or Canonist is basically GG right there. Additionally, I am unsure if pulling Sylvans are the correct call. I usually enjoy having a free Sensei's top filter for relevant cards. I've been able to find answers against burn when needed. Usually, I'm able to nab a key piece of removal or that needed QPM. As for 'Geddon, there's a high degree of risk there. I am not sure I agree there

For Burn, I basically take out anything that's too slow. Fire/Ice can be really slow, strapping it on Thalia or Canonist and you're already turn 4 (SFM) or 5 range...or rather, dead. Sylvans are the same, they basically filter one or two draws before I'm dead, meanwhile turn 2 they're beating with Goblin Guide again and dropping Eidolon.

What do you take out?

Depends what I pack. If I run with Leylines and Canonists (feeling this will be a good call for the GP to make it through day 1 and budget burn decks)

-1 Teeg (only stops fireblast)
-1 or 2 Sylvan
-1 equipment (usually consider keeping Fire/Ice but if I'm running batterskull or light/shadow, the lifegain is be more important)
-1 KotR (shave down to 3)
-1 wasteland or DD (I typically shave a waste because of all their basics. I've assembled the combo a handful of times quickly enough to insta-kill them prior to them dealing lethal. If I won G1, I consider dropping the DD instead and working to win behind a wall of protection)

Again, this is if I run Leyline. I lived the dream a month ago where I turn 0 leyline --> t1 mom (burned) --> t2 thalia (burned) --> t3 KotR + stage --> DD/Stage combo-ing. I'm also not afraid to swords my own guys if it mathematically buys me extra time. Luck is a HUGE factor in the burn matchup and I try to appease the topdeck Gods as much as I can.

The Firewalker is good until they get a Vortex down, and then I need to burn Qasali on it - if I haven't burned it on an Eidolon yet. This plus a miracles heavy meta makes me lean towards Decays mainboard.

I think Firewalker will be better over CoP:Red for the droves of UR Delver because it can block Swiftspear all day long and it takes the edge off of their burn. CoP:Red can do that as well but Delver is already taxing our mana with Daze and being much faster in general, while they can just flood out with Pyro tokens or smash with Delver.

The COP Red + ETutor is nice, but not better than 2x Firewalker since it's still one of two cards you need to find. Obviously you can still run more beats like Chains and Canonist (and Courser!) for other matches but the board looks pretty tight to me. It's also good if Elves runs Progentius, but I think if they fire off a Natural Order without Priest then we've already lost.

--

I like the concept of Courser. Defensive, bolt resistant, nice life gain, and it smooth your draws. You can also use it with Knight to get some extra life points.

That's an interesting SB strategy. I usually keep Fire/Ice, as Pro-red is very important (usually being the way I push through them). Strapping Fire/Ice on Thalia or Canonist is basically GG right there. Additionally, I am unsure if pulling Sylvans are the correct call. I usually enjoy having a free Sensei's top filter for relevant cards. I've been able to find answers against burn when needed. Usually, I'm able to nab a key piece of removal or that needed QPM. As for 'Geddon, there's a high degree of risk there. I am not sure I agree there

Hypothetically--is there anything wrong with only running 1-3 Leylines in the side? Assuming you did run them, do they *have* to be a 4 of?

They have to be 3-4x. I would run 3 in place of 3 discard, as "anti-spell/combo" is what I categorize both under. 1-2 is silly because you need the leyline turn 0 in your hand. It's too inconsistent at 2x or less. Likewise, against burn, you may die before you naturally land it for 2WW.

If you're lucky, you can keep some combination of Canonist/Ooze/Thalia/DRS (lifegain) on the table to get out of lethal range quickly. THey lose to lifegain and disruption of spells. If you live the dream with this package, you can turn 0 leyline on top of hate-bear them out. Hard part is pulling irrelevant pieces, as I try to keep all live cards.

@s3raphix: Derp. Shows you how ready for Legacy I am right now lol. Idk why I was thinking Helm and Grindstone read something like "your opponent" rather than "target player". Hmm...I'll let the inner debate rage on with Leyline.

s3raphix:
Honestly, I am debating the need for Leyline of Sanctity. I feel that card may help me push past droves of burn and combo. The card hoses burn, as they have no clock outside of creatures to kill you (plus at some point you stabilize as they can't nuke all your men AND lethal you fast enough). The downside is that Leyline cuts into my thoughtseize/IoK/duress/Teeg/Canonist slots + don't disrupt Sneak/Show, Reanimator, Enchantress, Painter, etc that need [insert card]. That's where a dedicated discard trumps. If I really feared combo I suppose I could go with both leyline and discard, but it would be sacrificing my odds against swarm (Zp, Deluge, spot removal, priest) and control (armageddon, O-ring) due to less SB space. I really hate COP Red as I feel it's a waste of space.

@Claymore: What have you tested Kor against? Burn or UR Delver? 2x is not enough? That sucks. If you go 3x, you might as well go Leylines for true protection or discard to be proactive.

Herzog is on the record for the first time at TheSource. He's saying Courser of Kruphix is the key card to pickup right now. Some of my friends have actually informed me about this for the past 2 weeks and I didn't believe them. Courser is aggressively costed and provides CA if you can live the dream with Sylvan Library and/or getting topdeck lands.

Deluge is the best sweeper right now for us. It DOES create collateral damage for for something like UR Delver, you X = 2 and their entire board dies. Same for Elves. DnT and the mirror need x = 2+, depending upon what's on the board.

@GreenSun4Zero:
Council's has a tough WWx cost. It's not impossible, but is certainly harder to hit in 3 color Mav lists. I also think Witness's recursion > more guys. There are times like Miracles I want another [thing] on the table/in hand. Sometimes that item is equipment. Other times I want to have a body + grab a creature so STP/Jace won't be enough. For other matchups, I would benefit from recycling old removal a la swords/plow/zp/deluge. Witness grabbing anything is a really big deal.

I played a list that tested a lot of ideas and sub-ideas this past weekend. Was a horrible 1-4-0 in 5 rounds. I playtested on the side and talked with nearly everyone about GPNJ.

Key findings:
Maverick can contend, but a lot rides on the luck of 1) your pairings and 2) your ability to pull decent opening hands. I had neither going for me Saturday. Opened the event mulling to 4 (no lands on 7, 6, or 5) --- and stalling on 1 land thereafter. Bottomline, these kind of "you've got to be kidding me" horror situations will derail any of us playing at an event. I will fine-tune my list to be more "basic" and aligned with what maverick wants. I stupidly tried 3x Thalia and never saw her outside of a last-few-turns scenario against UWR control.

Eternal Witness is really needed. I lost games to everybody because I couldn't create card advantage beyond Sylvan Library. I had moments where GSZ on 3 for Witness would have gave me back the game and/or protected positive board-state. She may be the bullet I've been looking for. She can also fit into the QPM/Scooze "flex slots"

If expecting UR Delver, 2:2 with QPM/Scooze. Expecting more Miracles, go 3:1 in favor of QPM.

I ran this SB
2 Armageddon -- was ok
3 Thoughtseize -- never used it, but did bring it in against elves
1 Decay -- was alright. This should be a PTE
2 ZP -- crushing. I think I need a 3rd again
2 Toxic Deluge -- crushing
2 Krosan Grip -- never saw them against miracles
1 Gaddock Teeg -- Papa never lets me down. Totally the right call given the meta.
2 Containment Priest -- Irrelevant with what I faced. Never relevant/saw it in time against Elves

I could only pick up 2x Containment Priests (was told I could grab a playset but then the store had only 2 remaining). These did nothing against matchups I faced: Elves (was irrelevant whole match), Jund Combo Loam, Miracles, UWR Control (very similar to Miracles), UR Delver. I will need to hear about other players' experiences with the card. If I face the mirror, DnT, Reanimator, Sneak/Show they will be great.

I played 1x Abrupt Decay in the Main. Although it was relevant all day, it felt like a waste of space. QPM #3 in the main would have done more. I also ran 4 equipment (again, trying out things)...Sword of Fire/Ice and Light/Shadow were the most relevant. Color protection trumps all, even Batterskull.

2x Slyvan makes a huge difference. Having the ability to pay life for more cards = seals games. Fixing your draw is also very important.

Moving forward, I am very nervous about Miracles. I had awful draws, some misplays (see: rust), and lots of irrelevancy. I think some form of card advantage and/or recursion is necessary to have any chance. UW players were both running Karanos (UR god) as a finisher. I have no way to deal with this thing. This is making me want to run Oblivion Ring as some kind of answer instead of Containment Priest. O-Ring is less valuable but still strong against Sneak-Show and Renaimator....but can bail me out of "holy crap there's a permanent I can't deal with" situations. Elves also "just crushes me randomly" if I cannot stop them in time. The elves matchup is frustrating.

I'm about 100% on the maindeck, as I much prefer the consistency to the situational nature of 1-ofs. I am however, not sure on the SB. I took out Wilt-leaf Liege simply because there aren't many Jund or BG decks running hymns and Lilis. I'm not sure on the Pithing needle, since I think it should possibly be an E Tutor, though I feel as though most of what I'm bringing E Tutor in for is to get a cage or RIP effect, which in most situations, Containment priest addresses. I am tempted to add 2 Kor Firewalker to the board, but I'm not sure on what to trim.

I really like this list. The only things I question are in the SB, but I'm with you on "I expect less Jund and BG stuff".
I would consider dropping a containment priest unless you're really on that train (I'm yet to play with her at all). I would cut a GY card (redundancy through Priest) for another Canonist or a lone WLL. Whether you drop cage or a RIP or a Priest is up to you.

I'm torn on how to improve my manabase. A friend said not playing 8-10 fetches nowadays in "doing it wrong". I'm not exactly sure if he's correct or not. I just don't want to ruin a good thing in a manabase that's more or less been there for me + I have nightmares running off 2 black sources (ie; cutting bayou #2 or scrubs #1) will be more detrimental to the gameplan. Ideally, I somehow keep DD/Stage, 8 fetches, 3 black duals. No idea what to cut. Mana hasn't really changed since the summer.

Concerning Containment Priest...
Agree with DudeItsCorey that it isn't as good against elves as it might seem. It's just a Gaddock Teeg you can't GSZ for (stops all the same cards). Containment Priest is probably fine against Dredge, Reanimator, Show & Tell, etc. IF you get to turn two before they have their fatty in play. If they don't have Griselbrand, Elesh Norn or Emrakul already out, then our previous hate (Karakas, DRS/Ooze, etc.) is probably good enough regardless. I don't know that for Maverick she'll be worth a couple spots in the 75. This argument would change if we were discussing Death & Taxes, though.

I am all over this card. I think it's a 2-3x in the 75 as the meta shifts with Comm-14. The card fights dredge, reanimator, and vial while also being a generally solid 2/2 flash creature. I agree it's not doing anything we don't already do against Elves, but I've always been a fan of "this card is applicable in several matchups". I have a lot of stuff in my lists I generally remove from Elves. I would love to be over-prepared when facing them (as the matchup is unfavorable for Maverick in general). Priest is problematic for the mirror + DnT and you can't discredit that.

Concerning Armageddon...
I am in concurrence with most in this forum that Armageddon is a great spell vs Miracles, Lands, 12 post, and other slow decks, but it costs 4 mana... or 5 with Thalia... or uncastable with a Teeg out (which is Gameplan #1 against Miracles anyways). I've always run 3 Chokes in the sideboard and have been very please with their application against Miracles, and more importantly, the large majority of the field. A great card if resolved against Delver decks. Not saying Choke is strictly better, but just providing a counter opinion...

It's been my observations and experiences that led me away from Choke. It just doesn't do enough. Once upon a time, landing Choke was GG. Now, we face decks with DRS + severalways to remove the enchantment. Even when choke is good, you risk being timewalked. We also face decks that burn through the final points of damage and/or play around choke. Even against UR delver, you better be hitting them with the card early. They generate too much value throughout the game to be truly impacted. We also have to contend with a UWx control deck that needs whitemana more than it needs blue. I've had choke not be enough in the past year or so to move away from it. I embrace Armageddon as a legitimate threat to long grindy decks. You mention it yourself -- Lands, Miracles, Post -- but also Nic Fit, grindy SFM decks...they all need oodles of mana to operate. I also die miserably against long grindy decks

Body and Mind, although capable of fueling TC, needs a bigger discussion. I'd be willing to run it over batter skull if the room had enough U/G in it. You friggin mill them for 10 and make a wolf. A decent chunk of that mill will be business spells, threats, and mana. For the time being, I am sticking to batter skull or light/shadow. Don't bash body and mind though. It can do a world of damage. The deck would probably need Murray crusaders to take advantage of equipment with blowout triggers

If you want Fauna Shaman, you're 2 cards away from the Elesh Norn Package. Personally, I think Shaman is too high of a risk with so much burn running around. You can't afford to durdle too long.

Conceptually, I am not sure if Mastodon's lack of SFM is genius or foolish. You are so fragile to -1/-1 sweepers and general offense outside of a KotR. At least equipment presents a threat when tied to a weenie.

@s3raphix:
That's a really interesting idea. I have been contemplating some of the things you experimented with. Scryb as a whole has been lackluster since we moved into 2014. I was hesitant to shave it out but as you mention, it does very little.

I've caught some slack recently from friends about playing 7 fetches instead of 8. How did 24 lands (feat. 8 fetch) work for you? Similarly, How were 2 black duals? Did opponents ever hold you off of black for SB cards? By Maverick's standards, 21 creatures (not counting dryad) is low. Did you find yourself durdling or scrambling to find threats?

*I'm not sure how I feel about Maverick for the GP. I may switch over to Rock, which has a larger "catch all" against a large field. I expect "oops I win" combo decks to run rampant --- decks I hate playing against with Mav.

What do you think about Titania, Protector of Argoth in place of Sigarda?
Titania, Protector of Argoth 3GG
Mythic
Legendary Creature - Elemental
When Titania, Protector of Argoth enters the battlefield, return target land card from your graveyard to the battlefield.
Whenever a land you control is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, put a 5/3 green Elemental creature token onto the battlefield.
5/3

In place of a tutorable Sigarda with an easier casting cost, you can instantly revive a wasteland and destroy another of your own land to get three 5/3.
It is WAY more synergistic than Sigarda since you can interact with Sylvan Safekeeper, Fetchs, Wastelands, KOTR, DD, Crop rotation

This has been my logic with the card as well. KotR tricks also yield 5/3s on command. My hesitation is when you're against a stalled board. Sigarda shines because she flies over for 5+ dmg. I would need to "race" with 5/3s, which brick against the Pyromancer right now. The upside is having a strong army out of nowhere. The downside is chump blocking against your team and/or Terminus still wipes you clean. I am willing to try her out at the GP I think her upside is that high.

Don't run Thalia in the main with pfires. It gets in the way. You would benefit from thoughtseize > thalia in the maindeck OR run with zero disruption but more threats OR run with alternative disruption a la Mindcensor. pfires concedes to combo in exchange of "punishing" creatures. You have to leverage pfires against thalia, as both on the table create a no-bo. pfires is clunky but grinds the crap out of opponents. You do not want to be paying an additional [1] mana per casting.

I know its wrong, but I always feel better when I'm not the only one who has a bad time versus Miracles.

Honestly it's next to impossible to win. I did it at 'Cuse and I haven't gotten lucky since. Game 1 he mulls to 4 and I still lost the attrition war. One of those days I guess. The pilot is a friend who is very very good at MTG, so I'm not complaining about luck. He just outright outplayed me. G2 I managed to pull a game 1. Game 3 we went to time where he undoubtedly would win if we had another 5 minutes (thank god we didn't)

The difference between the ranked 5 teams and the pro teams is strategy. Champion picks normally do not differ from solo queue unless it directly clashes with a strategy or meta. For instance, the worlds championship in South Korea saw the resurgence of Janna, a pure support. Vayne and Tristana were both pure ADCs played by all regions.

@Raver: This makes a lot of sense.

Are you asking if the game is mid/top oriented or if the champs chosen are mid/top champs?

Forgive me for asking a noob question, but why do competitive/pro LoL team comps different from those in random 5s or low ranked? Specifically, the absence of a pure-ADC or Support. I am aware Jinx (ADC) is sometimes used right now + Nami/Thresh/Janna (Supp). I've always wondered why professional teams gyrate towards more top or mid-lane style champs. I'm assuming this is due to the raw power level -- how some characters are "strictly better" than others?

I've asked questions before about which champions to play, and I appreciate earlier feedback. Just wondering about this above question. Hope I don't get flamed or start a flame-war lol.

Earthcraft is a relic and has been for years. If they had unbanned it at the time they unbanned dream halls no one would have given a **** about it. Unban it right now? I still don't care. It loses to spell pierce and what does it go in? If it makes enchantress tier 1 I would be impressed. Enchantress really doesn't need help winning the game, which is what earthcraft does for them as the only synergy outside the combo is making mana with some argothian enchantress's that you don't necessarily have in play/it's just a slight boost and nothing more. Earthcraft is definitely no better than show and tell in fact it's way, way worse. Lion's eye diamond is way better as well. I would argue dark ritual is as well. So many things are more powerful than a crappy 2 mana green enchantment it isn't even funny. To top it off it dies to phyrexian revoker. Squirrelcraft would not happen in legacy ever as well. The card is a joke. WotC just doesn't do anything with legacy at all anymore despite the rumors that GP New Jersey will have upwards of 6,000 in attendance or at least SCG is preparing for 6,000. I thought nothing could top GP Las Vegas since that was modern masters limited/a vastly underprinted set that many attended. I knew lots of people who were going to GP Las Vegas who don't normally travel by air. It just shattered the records and I thought it would be on top for quite some time. If legacy dethrones it as the most attended grand prix....wow. Madrid back in the day was legacy and was most attended but that GP was just 2,227 people, a seemingly tame number in comparison to recent GPs but at the time caused issues logistically as they didn't have enough chairs to seat all the players/some people were playing standing up.

Agreed with all of this. Earthcraft would just be "annoying" but certaintly not broken due to the many cards in print that destroy it. And SCG is talking 6,000 players. My mind cannot comprehend this.

I am still not on the 'ban brainstorm' bandwagon, but the larger argument I've been talking about for a while (see: blue's core of efficient cards + fetchlands = growing too powerful) now pisses me off. Fetches + bstorm/ponder/probe/top is my limit for how much total dig/efficiency/filter Legacy should allow. If a deck wants to be tempo or control alongside these cards, that's one thing. Adding Treasure Cruise to an already strong cluster of filtering cards surpassed my arbitrary line of fun. I want WotC to step in and do something.

Making matters worse, I can't isolate the problem. I fully admit TC by itself (key thing to point out) isn't busted. It's a very fair card. However, the combination of fetches and cantrips makes decks centered around that strategy ridiculous. If GPNJ is dominated by Treasure Cruise, I think it's safe to assume we have another Mental Misstep. This is a tough call because the larger narrative is how TC is busted because of the other synergistic cards that fuel it. This puts us in a different situation than Survival or Mystical.

The question I openly ask 2 questions:
Has TC pushed blue's filtering over the proverbial power-level line?
Would the format be better with blue's (amazing) filter cards sans TC or do we keep TC and ban something else (commonly argued as brainstorm)?

Continuing the second question, perhaps it's time we pull the plug on probe and TC? This would leave us with fetches, brainstorm, and ponder. Alternatively, we could ban bstorm but allow sorcery-speed filtering moving forward.

As of right now, TC could slip into almost every deck, like when Tarmogoyf hit the mainstream. The format is a breeding ground for combining grave-fillers and filtering; both negating TC's "natural downside" of 8 mana. Because it has delve and because this is Legacy, the card is easily cast for very little mana. I've seen the card cast anywhere between fact or fiction and ancestral recall. The UR and BUG delver lists are unfair because they perfectly exploit the card into a chain reaction of bstorm, fetches, ponder, probes, removal ---> TC ---> hitting many of those cards and doing it again. It doesn't help that a powerful strategy has emerged that abuses cards that benefit from this durdling behavior.

Yea Miracles is horrendous. I think I need to bring in Geddons and Kgrips and Walkers just to break parity. Even then, a well-timed entreat is GG. I also suffer from "wherearemyhatecard"-itis against the deck. I'm thinking about dropping Light and Shadow from my staple build because that card isn't saving creatures. Batterskull has been a better all-around card, despite its cost. I am tempted to forgo 'Bskull as well for Elspeth or Heliod, God of the Sun. Heliod is something I can play for 4 mana under Teeg and Thalia because the god is a creature. Heliod's "everyone has vigilance" allows for KotR attacks + activations, which is nifty. It also lets you drop a small army of tokens if needed. Elspeth can end games but doesn't play well with Teeg/Thalia...and it's Teeg/Thalia who are keeping me in games lately.

Actually I'm picking up Maverick again because of the Cruise greedy decks, but I'm definitely going to be packing RIP in the sideboard whenever I play it. DRS and Ooze go a long way Game 1, but post board you sometimes just need to lock out the 'yard entirely.

I sort of disagree with Elves an Miracles being the reason it dropped off, Elves was around in more or less the same form when Maverick was at its peak, and while it can be tough to beat, it wasn't the biggest concern since Elves lost badly to a lot of other decks at the time. In reality it was Sneak and Show and Miracles that did Maverick in. Miracles was and is still rough, but not unbeatable; Sneak and Show however is nearly impossible, they go over the Maverick gameplan faster than Maverick can stop it. Since there are fewer Sneak and Show decks around, Maverick can probably ease in a comeback, but I don't think it will ever really dominate the format again.

I don't think RIP does much against 'cruise decks. I had this discussion with a bunch of good players and MTG friends. Outside of TC, the deck doesn't need the grave. UR has trouble with efficient spot removal a la STP/PTE/Decay. I'll let them draw for days. They need business to hit me with when all is said and done.

Elves is just annoying. I lost over the weekend to a guy who luckily hardcasted hoof for lethal both games on like turn 4 both games despite me correctly dropping Teeg to disable his NO on turn 3. Utterly frustrating to lose to "well I just win anyway" lines of play. Miracles is disastrous. I've beaten it at SCG but lost to it waaaay too much recently. I am convinced I need LD like 'Geddon and some kind of dedicated CA engine that pumps out creatures (Elspeth 1.0 for example).

Sneak/Show is terrible if you don't plan on seeing it. Maverick actually has a decent matchup against it G1 due to KotR/Karakas. If you expect it to be in the meta, planning accordingly can help significantly improve your odds. But, like Elves, it's possible they just go "ummm I win through your hate. GG"