This board has been strangely quiet on the subject. I'm sure plenty of you haven't been as reserved about the election as you have on here, and I know it's not polite to talk politics amongst friends but.. c'mon already!

Of course it's a no brainer.. tho it's weird to actually be using that term in a literal sense.

From the outside looking in I'd say it's an increasingly poor advertisement for US democracy but also, that people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Hillary has slithered her way thru her career. If she actually had the bravery she should wear that as a badge of honour, a triumph of individualism & survival: her greed, lies and ambition are good virtues..??

To be honest tho, I think you should elect Tronald.
For the laughs.
Look at it this way: when in your lifetimes & history will you get a chance to vote such a buffoon, such a bozo, into power? There'll always be another career politician but will there ever be another Trump? Well, I never should say never & be careful what I wish for I suppose...
It just seems a perfect opportunity to unleash some unpredictable stupid laughs. Kinda like this dumbass clown craze actually..

So yea. Bemoan what has become of your politics & despair of the criminal, abusive, unsavoury behaviour of what is meant to be a grown man. But vote for him all the same. Finish the job. & hey, if he & the rest of us make it, it's only 4 years..
If you're not going to vote for him, then lock him up. Better yet, do both!

jack white wrote:
To be honest tho, I think you should elect Tronald.
For the laughs.
Look at it this way: when in your lifetimes & history will you get a chance to vote such a buffoon, such a bozo, into power? There'll always be another career politician but will there ever be another Trump? Well, I never should say never & be careful what I wish for I suppose...
It just seems a perfect opportunity to unleash some unpredictable stupid laughs. Kinda like this dumbass clown craze actually..

So yea. Bemoan what has become of your politics & despair of the criminal, abusive, unsavoury behaviour of what is meant to be a grown man. But vote for him all the same. Finish the job. & hey, if he & the rest of us make it, it's only 4 years..
If you're not going to vote for him, then lock him up. Better yet, do both!

brexit

“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

The chances of Trump winning are estimated at roughly 12% to 15%, so it's not happening. Trump is going to tear the GOP apart. He has enough followers to wreck the GOP’s voter base when they defect to whatever lunatic fringe he establishes when he starts his “conservative” television channel. Hopefully, this will all result in a more progressive government that doesn’t shut down whenever one side can’t get their way.

Also, I have to mention ... Rudy Guliani is clearly losing his mind and it’s hard to look away.

TheWarmth wrote: He has enough followers to wreck the GOP’s voter base when they defect to whatever lunatic fringe he establishes when he starts his “conservative” television channel.

Also, I have to mention ... Rudy Guliani is clearly losing his mind and it’s hard to look away.

From some disgusting asshole that was a Democrat not that long ago. He just legitimized the lunatic fringe in the US. That in itself is scary enough. Not to mention all the other atrocities that have come out of his mouth.
Also from someone who invited the Clintons to his 3rd wedding.
The list could go on and on and I would take Donald's advice. Go and vote for him on November 28th!

It is most disgusting. BOTH "candidates" are LOSERS; no one wins this one, save for sycophants and political parasites as usual. Those of 30 years and more have been trotted out. A Greed most Horrible has bought a great sorrow - but still, I hope before it is too late, there will be a slap across the collective faces of my country to awaken them from a Stupor and a great stupidity. This is a new low in lows.

Choices?
A Psychopathic Liar OR a Psychopathic Egomaniac. Oh gee, what a choice we have. Both Political Parties could have said NO very early on, the lies and weaknesses were transparent as glass. But, people are genuinely and I believe rightfully angered by an obvious corruption. The Stench of it has stuck to so many, even been released for the World to read and all to see. But who reads? Journalism and its apparent Death, has left a different Stench. An Absence of any sense. Meanwhile, it is a Tweetarama of the absurd; and I am terribly disappointed by all of this. So many will be hurt.

That, Jack White, is why so little was said. Embarrassment. Two Losers who can easily be argued so. A third loser in this, as usual, is the people in general. Manipulated by madness and the same old game plan - but THIS one is unusually putrid and so self-serving by BOTH of the main LOSERS.

"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"
Paracelsus

semisynthetic wrote:It is most disgusting. BOTH "candidates" are LOSERS; no one wins this one, save for sycophants and political parasites as usual. Those of 30 years and more have been trotted out. A Greed most Horrible has bought a great sorrow - but still, I hope before it is too late, there will be a slap across the collective faces of my country to awaken them from a Stupor and a great stupidity. This is a new low in lows.

Choices?
A Psychopathic Liar OR a Psychopathic Egomaniac. Oh gee, what a choice we have. Both Political Parties could have said NO very early on, the lies and weaknesses were transparent as glass. But, people are genuinely and I believe rightfully angered by an obvious corruption. The Stench of it has stuck to so many, even been released for the World to read and all to see. But who reads? Journalism and its apparent Death, has left a different Stench. An Absence of any sense. Meanwhile, it is a Tweetarama of the absurd; and I am terribly disappointed by all of this. So many will be hurt.

That, Jack White, is why so little was said. Embarrassment. Two Losers who can easily be argued so. A third loser in this, as usual, is the people in general. Manipulated by madness and the same old game plan - but THIS one is unusually putrid and so self-serving by BOTH of the main LOSERS.

people get the government they deserve..

Your post is exactly the kind of vitriol & energy I was hoping for. Anger & disappointment are completely justified. So many have already been hurt.

I had hoped for a candidate who would attempt to minimize the great divisiveness of these last few years; someone who could and would confront the problems and issues that "We the People" had wanted confronted. Not a sad set of what we have. What you "wanted" was very obvious, and I cannot understand wishing to see what I wrote; but it is what I think.

When I watch these "people on the street Interviews", where a pitifully large percentage don't even seem to know where they are, who is in office at present, or fail to recognize Photos of people in power, It is easy to see how we have such stellar candidates. If it is true we deserve it - the apathy and ignorance is certainly an important part of the equation. But, the USA is a large and diverse country; it can surely survive a few years of either loser and survive. I think it was Eisenhower who warned of two important points: firstly, avoid the Military Industrial Complex, and AVOID anyone who "dreams too long" of becoming President. I think people USUALLY get the government they deserve; maybe this strange exercise will be a sort of wakeup scream for the future. Who knows.

"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"
Paracelsus

My Greatest disappointment, I must admit is with the culture of corruption in this current government. If you read vault.fbi.gov "Hillary 4 of 4" (I think), you will read, on page 26 of how a controller of funds uses the term "quid pro quo" in his attempt to have some already subpoenaed document changed in the "secret" to "unclassified" to "bury it in the basement". At least someone in the FBI has a conscience and sense of duty, or it would not BE there for all to read. Have a read of how a sycophant tries to bribe the FBI with new and plush or other sites to go to. The FBI declined.

It is ALL embarrassing. The Ghost of Nixon walks the Halls still.

"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"
Paracelsus

I thought the EU referendum was a shitstorm but the US election is making that seem like a picnic. I get why people dislike Hillary Clinton but Trump is one of the most repellent and disgusting people I've seen in politics for some time. He reminds me of Biff from Back To The Future...

There is a high degree of probability you won't see Trump in politics for long. That is what the pundits say, anyway. Since they have been wrong on almost everything, I suppose November 8th will tell the tale.

"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"
Paracelsus

That single line above involving the FBI was not intended to be flippant. I remember well what Watergate took from this country. I recall a humorous, but quick witted son of the South, Sam Ervin as the Watergate Committee Chairman, and the months of hearings about not simply a breaking of DNC Headquarters in the Watergate Hotel, but a country brought to a halt by investigations for the reassertion that NO ONE is above the law; that this nation was not some "banana republic" with 2 sets of rules.

The effect of that focus to reassure the US Citizenry, took a terrible toll on the country. I dare say that I am not alone in my disgust of yet another round of Clinton scandals that make Watergate look like childsplay - but that scandal brought the country to a virtual standstill. We have so many problems that we cannot waste the time and energy it would require to tie up Congress with a seriously crippled Clinton. I don't really care if Trump is not polished in his presentations; at least he has experience in actually doing some things that benefit; and perhaps it is more important at this stage to get important things done, to be pragmatic, than to allow the USA to suffer more years of Clinton scandals that would be divisive to an already divided country, and instead hope a candidate, crude and rough as he appears, to come from outside of the regular slick politician with all of their group-tested phrases and decades of decadence and actually do things that may help the country.

I watched a little bit of "All the President's Men" a couple of nights ago; and so much from that era came once again to the forefront of my memories, and to FORCE a government to deal with all of this shit, this corrupted, greedy $100's of millions gained by a person who, by her choices and actions clearly put the nation SECOND to her own scams and use of governmental position to gain enormous amounts of money. This time the Country must come FIRST; and I have seen what the Clinton's and their sycophants have done over the years, and it is simply too much.
I was willing to accept either, they are both "imperfect"; and whoever DOES win, I won't be rioting in the streets; but after the latest news and what details have leaked out, I hope Clinton will not win. It was embarrassing enough to have a candidate under FBI investigation for such an extended period.
Every day there have been substantive REASONS the FBI was looking and being stonewalled because the Democrat Party had their "chosen one"; who clearly from Podesta's and others emails, and not just Wikileaks(!) had clearly sabotaged Bernie Sanders candidacy. As disgusting as some things Trump said, to now, once again have Huma Abedin's estranged and perverted husband, Anthony Weiner, along with texting sexual images AGAIN, this time with a 15 year old girl reminds me too much of the worst of the past.
There is too much at stake, and too many people are genuinely worried, in a bad way, and pissed off at these so-called elites.

I know this sharing of my thoughts will not be popular, but this is so beyond some ideology, that a long and sober look is required.

It was made clear, I think, how I felt about the dynamic duo; but when I think of the questions and problems that are already being raised because of the choices Clinton made that perpetuated this mess, when she so self righteously "demands" this and that of the FBI, she has only herself to blame. I HOPE that she will get her wish, and have whatever reactivated this case against her made public, but it is reasonable to assume there is something there for the FBI Director to take this incredible step into very dark and uncharted waters. I can barely wait for This election to be over, one way or another; either way, these shenanigans will be a drag on the country. I am more disgusted than ever.

November 8th cannot come quickly enough for me, for I've had it.

Last edited by semisynthetic on Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"
Paracelsus

"How could FBI Director James Comey inform Congress that newly discovered emails were potentially “pertinent” to the investigation into Hillary Clinton’s private email server, when Comey’s agents had not yet reviewed any of the emails? They couldn’t review them because the FBI hadn’t yet gotten a search warrant to read them. And as of last night the FBI still doesn't have a warrant. It's in talks with the Justice Department about obtaining one.

Donald Trump’s campaign and congressional Republicans claim the FBI director wouldn’t have informed Congress unless he was aware of the significance of what was in the emails. Baloney. That’s obviously not the case if Comey hadn’t read them."

Robert Reich was not quite fully informed enough at the time apparently.

Firstly, no warrant was needed. Weiner turned the laptop over to the FBI voluntarily. Secondly, more than 600,000 Emails, with many of these shown to be metadata-linked to Hillary Clinton's "private server" - WAS MORE THAN ENOUGH. The computer should have been turned over much earlier by either Abedin (or Weiner), and should NOT have had the metadata signature that was found, likely without even reading a single communication. How ANY of Hillary Clinton's Emails made it onto the laptop is not yet known, or if it is, it has not yet been revealed. These preliminary findings showing Clinton's Emails on yet another unauthorized device were first reported Sunday, October 30th, by the Washington Post.

That is "scandalous" enough to remove Reich's quotes I believe. But that is just my opinion. It is simply too much; too many layers to bleach-bit it away from serious public and legal discourse and action. It will not simply go away, and only 1 person is ultimately responsible.

Not Ideology. Simply disgust at actions that cannot be defended; ANY politician supposedly working for the American People putting their bank account ahead of the American People and this Country should be aware of Consequences. Accountability must be made important to Public Servants again - even more so than their pensions and perks are now. As for any outright criminal activity, I would expect a clear thinking person to want a criminally active government official dealt with without delay regardless of party affiliation or their level within the government.

"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"
Paracelsus

In any case, we've been over this issue so many times now, I don't see the revelation of new emails as news at this point. Yeah, it was a dumb, careless thing to do, but if Trump gets elected as a result of this, I'm going to be extremely disappointed. There's also the Harry Reid's FBI double standard argument. It's hard to say if that holds any water, but I have to wonder about the FBI's motives. This is the division of the government that just recently decided that weed is still as dangerous as heroin when not only has it been legalized in multiple states, the majority of the country is pushing for its legalization.

They did indeed need a warrant and got one last night.
Lets see what happens. If you think the Clinton's are the only politicians more concerned with their own bank account and caught lying on occasion I have some beach front property in Iowa for sale. They are the most investigated couple in US political history.
If this pushed Trumpf over the top Lord help us all.
Can you say 4th Reich?

Once the Laptop was voluntarily handed over, which would have otherwise required a Warrant in itself, that hurdle was eliminated. Once the Laptop was tested to see if metadata from Clinton's server were present, and it was, THAT Warrant was pro forma, it was a Warrant to LOOK INSIDE once the Device was obtained. I could have written that better, but the point is, once that Laptop showed it contained something it should NOT, very few Judges would have not given the Warrant to open the thing up and view what is inside.

"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"
Paracelsus

Fair enough. I still maintain that the email issue has been scrutinized to death already and I can't see this new laptop revealing anything we don't already know. My gut feeling is that if the email issue was going to sink Clinton's chances, she wouldn't be winning right now. At least I hope that's the case.

spzretent wrote:They did indeed need a warrant and got one last night.
Lets see what happens. If you think the Clinton's are the only politicians more concerned with their own bank account and caught lying on occasion I have some beach front property in Iowa for sale. They are the most investigated couple in US political history.
If this pushed Trumpf over the top Lord help us all.
Can you say 4th Reich?

The big "argument" I heard, (actually, I could not hear, I had to read the CC); and it was seemingly endless about HOW to get the laptop. Since I am still made to lay flat while they pump in the nasty chemo, and I have 3 TVs in here, I heard (read) a lot of the same thing about the "mechanics of the Warrant to get the laptop". When it was handed over, as I wrote above, the pro forma opening of the Device/laptop was essentially guaranteed because it contained metadata it should not.
I again will admit that the way I wrote that was poorly done.

I know Politicians Lie. Some more than others. Some lie much better than others. Some just seem to "default" to lying. Rarely have I heard one lie about how they were named! Or discuss dodging sniper fire when the whole visit was on so many video cameras; the sniper was a little girl giving Clinton flowers. Perhaps being the "most investigated" makes one an even better liar. Then again, one must consider WHY they are the "most investigated". I wonder why?

As for the 4th Reich, not only can I say it, I say it is something that must be avoided. Look at the 3rd Reich. Blind obedience to a Cult of Personality. When this happy little group of criminals and misfits gained power, what did they do? They carved out Fortunes for themselves. Adolf sold that lousy book in record numbers, partly because it was politically correct to have Mein Kampf in ones book case, or better yet, where it could be easily seen. Himmler made a fortune investing his energy into the SS; EVERYONE of this "political elite" got a piece of the action. All the way down to selling the gold from teeth they took from those who were undesirables in their eyes. Germany went from a pre-WWI land of laws to one of lawlessness of men, something we should never do here in the USA or anywhere; but frankly I am concerned for now with (this) country.

Show me another Political Couple who went from complaining about being "broke" to selling access WELL in excess of $100,000,000.00 in just a few years, and "Clinton Inc.", where an investment manager had Bill Clinton in the way, already scheduled to make $66,000,000.00 more in the next 10 years; their making tens of millions for speeches they would not share, (and with good reason); and of course there is the "Foundation" of over $1 BILLION, some very kind despots who give out of the goodness of their hearts to the poor and needy, and of course the Russians are in for 20% of the Uranium of the USA. Oh yes - and just a little face time with an expresident impeached for lying, and a one time Secretary of State that could swing a deal of a lifetime. I still remember when Hillary Clinton, in less than a week, made $100,000.00 in "cattle futures" - that was the early, good old days of little swindles and scams.

Show me another Politician (or couple), and I'll trade you some PRIME real estate on the moon of Io for that beach front property you mentioned. Io has a great view, though admittedly, a bit chilly.

Seriously, this election is FUBAR. But it is not an excuse to aid what is a criminal enterprise that hurts the country and sets precedence for "untouchables". I expect anyone in power to be held to a higher standard; what they do affects the Nation and the People. To NOT go after those in government at every level encourages yet more corruption, and we can't take much more. This country is in trouble.

"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"
Paracelsus

It seems to me that this election has become an unpopularity contest which knows no bounds when it comes to unpleasant rhetoric and moronic behaviour. From this distance, the candidates and their policies appear unpopular and the voters appear at best disinterested. In the case whether the voters are angry rather than disinterested we may get very odd outcomes that could be a source of some lengthy regret for us all.

It is really depressing that Clinton and Trump are the best that the Democrats and Republicans can come up with. Clinton is 69, Trump is 70. Is there really nobody younger with new ideas available to either side?

Well, Marco Rubio is considerably younger at 45, but he blew it big time during the debates (note that "Robo-Rubio" episode). I am in no way a fan of Rubio, but he probably could have beaten Clinton if the Republicans hadn't decided to instead go with a misogynist, bigot, con artist, national embarrassment.

Last edited by TheWarmth on Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TheWarmth wrote:Fair enough. I still maintain that the email issue has been scrutinized to death already and I can't see this new laptop revealing anything we don't already know. My gut feeling is that if the email issue was going to sink Clinton's chances, she wouldn't be winning right now. At least I hope that's the case.

If what you believe is true, that this email business on an illegal server where all that should have been secret obviously was NOT; and the repercussions could hurt Hillary Clinton's chances for the Presidency of the United States, who is to blame? Only 1 person, and that is Hillary Clinton. She knew she should not set up that unsecured server; and I believe it was done to hide activities of the "Foundation". But whatever the real reason, she first told you and I and everyone else it was for "convenience", to carry a single device. She had at least 13, and they are, uh, lost. Hammered away. To condone criminal activity on this scale, does hurt the country. We either have Laws we follow, especially those who know better, or we descend into chaos, and man we are teetering on the edge. Hillary Clinton could have simply followed the rules, used a government email account, one where everything she asked EVERYONE ELSE at the State Department to do, there was even a little "commercial" she made explaining to the employees at State.gov that it was essential that THEY (not her), take cybersecurity very seriously and essentially do everything she did not. At each step, she slowed the process and destroyed emails and had that server etched clean so not even the FBI Forensics could recover the "yoga and wedding emails" and such. Do you honestly believe that? She lied all along the way, and it was SHE who created the timeline and conditions for an avoidable problem that she believed could be hidden, to be used now to point out really good reasons why many people just don't want her having power, and surely that is understandable, even within het own inner circle, and of course her own Party. A person who would lie and say ANYTHING to gain and keep the awesome power that the Office of the President holds probably should not be allowed to gain that power, most certainly when we have seen over these months what she has done with just the influence peddling at the State Department. The "Russian Reset", how ISIS was (not) dealt with; how what uniforms were changed and changed again 3-4 times in the Benghazi mess where good people died; a LIST of very real and concrete reasons I hope she does not win. I wrote before what I thought of this election; and I just cannot see giving a person who has the 30+ year record of ...what exactly? Obfuscation and paranoia? A seeming disgust for "the little guy"? If you hold a different view, you must be wrong? The other choice is also problematic. But as far as why Hillary might lose because of the email and related things - blame Hillary Clinton.

"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"
Paracelsus

I want to know more of your thoughts on Trump, because he's the other option. You used the word "problematic" in your last post, which, in my opinion, is an understatement on a grand scale. At this point, we have to decide and I'm sure as hell not voting for DT.

TheWarmth wrote:I want to know more of your thoughts on Trump, because he's the other option. You used the word "problematic" in your last post, which, in my opinion, is an understatement on a grand scale. At this point, we have to decide and I'm sure as hell not voting for DT.

DT looks like "delerium tremens".

I know "problematic" is admittedly thin. But I think whatever I write, it would be sort of pointless. We each seem to be voting for who we believe to be the "lesser of two evils". One is said to be capable; if that is Hillary, it terrifies me as to just what she might be capable of.

I know we can agree to disagree. I started writing to at least share a different point of view, but I didn't see what is the last line on my phone earlier. But I am sick of this election. I'll be so glad to go home. We'll all vote, and we'll see who we're stuck with. That is a terrible way to put it, but I believe that is pretty much how the country as a whole (divided) views this mess. So it is ANOTHER 8 days? Oh yuck.

"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"
Paracelsus

Not that we didn't know this already, but today the NY Times reported that "Trump avoided reporting hundreds of millions in taxable income with a tactic so legally dubious that his lawyers said an I.R.S. audit would most likely find it improper. Tax experts who reviewed documents for The Times said Mr. Trump trampled a core tax policy tenet by receiving tax benefits for losing vast amounts of other people’s money."

So, yeah, it wasn't a legal loophole that that Hillary was somehow responsible for. Claiming a loss when you actually received a gift (of forgiven debt) isn't a loophole. The fact that he had the balls to claim that this kind of activity makes him a "smart man" makes me want to vomit.

Less than 7 Days now to choose who to lose with. Time seems to have slowed.

Personally, and maybe I'm old fashioned; but someone involved in Criminal Matters of State and using the citizens of the Country (and the Country's assets and wealth) as pawns for "Pay to Play" Schemes is much worse than trying to pay less in taxes.
My accountant's firm had a "committee meeting" about how much I may keep of my own money; each one an expert and hardly a one agreeing with another about much at times. My final % was not very "fair" in my opinion, and I am relatively poor. I counted the tiles in that ceiling, and saw a Bound Tax Law 33 feet long, not including new additions.

If I were President, God forbid, I would insist those thousands of people at the IRS pay THEIR long overdue tax bills as they left at the end of the week from government service. Many have owed a fortune for years. Surely that too deserves a puke bag?
The more I learn about who did what without any accountability deserves the "Big Box" of puke bags.

Less than 7 Days now and counting.....

"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"
Paracelsus

Trump is guilty of flat out racism, xenophobia, misogyny (has anyone ever been more anti-women?), Trump University scam, incessant stiffing of contractors, failure to pay taxes, climate change denial (it's a Chinese hoax!) ... the list goes on and on an on. Dude is going on trial soon for a child rape charge. Over ten adult women have accused him of sexual assault. He is simply not fit for presidency.

Also, this news dropped today: "The Ku Klux Klan’s official newspaper, the Crusader, has written a gushing front-page article about the importance of Donald Trump’s campaign slogan, 'Make America Great Again.'" Here's a quick synopsis: "The article features a photo of Trump, uses his campaign slogan as a headline, and makes an impassioned case for why his campaign slogan — 'Make America Great Again' — should resonate with white supremacists." But it's ok, I guess, because his team issued a statement that denounces "hate in any form." Yet, somehow it's still ok to mock a crippled reporter, refer to Mexicans as "rapists" and suggest banning on all Muslims from entering the country. Sounds like hatred to me.

I really didn't want to get all political on this forum, but the election is too close at this point for me to sit here and not speak my mind.

He is the most repulsive piece of shit ever to run for office. He has allowed all these alt.right nutbags to come out from the gutter they live in and never denounced any of them. In fact he retweeted them using the Star of David in a derogatory way, that green frog racist hero his sons, Uday & Qusay, retweeted. Accepting David Dukes endorsement. The fact he tells a lie every 3.5 minutes.
Some of the things these people say in ads running up to the election like the homophobe in Utah claiming Evan McMullin is a mommas boy and probably gay. With nothing to back it up. These homophobes are usually the ones caught standing in a brown paper bag in airport restrooms and rest area bathrooms. Biggest hypocrites on earth. To paraphrase Shakespeare "They doth protest too much methinks".
This has been the most disgusting election I can remember. By a long shot.

semisynthetic wrote:Personally, and maybe I'm old fashioned; but someone involved in Criminal Matters of State and using the citizens of the Country (and the Country's assets and wealth) as pawns for "Pay to Play" Schemes is much worse than trying to pay less in taxes.

So Trump is going to get your vote? It appears other US citizens here are happy to admit they won't vote for him and Hillary will get it instead. Of course it is a private matter, but if people come out and heavily criticise one candidate over another - as a few have done here - it isn't a big leap to declare support for one candidate over another. A close friend of my family is so consumed with hatred for the Clintons she is backing Trump because she says he 'absolutely has to vote'. We are all a little horrified as I know Republicans who absolutely won't vote for that guy. In my book a spoiled paper is pretty important, and I am sure there will be many of those this time round. But no matter how I felt about Hillary there would be no possible way I could endorse a creature as genuinely all out revolting as Trump.

I wrote early on about my disdain for the "Two Losers". I may not vote at all, for President; I will vote down ticket for local and State, Congress and so on. I live in a Very "Red" State anyway. I simply offered a counterpoint to a view that is poured all over on this Thread like cold honey - "no matter what, Hillary is the Salvation of All Mankind". That is as much shit as saying the same for Trump. They are both terribly flawed.

While I have had a little go at playing the devil's advocate, others are batshit rabid Foaming over the very IDEA that there are some people who will, no doubt, vote for Trump. My goodness I am glad it is nearing less than 6 days. The Country has gone nuts over rationalizing which loser will do. Look at the influence of them already! Either one will cause problems by their mere existence OR by winning! ERGO, LOSE - LOSE. Hillary will spend time wasting the Countries Time in preparation for responses to surrogates and minions in front of the obligatory Congressional Hearings, and I am certain Trump will be involved in suing or being sued.

Now, really; the "racist, misogynist" et cetera stuff are THICK in Hillary's emails about Bernie Sanders. The nutty stuff that even the candidates of the SAME Parties use is amazingly painful to see. Many who did vote for Bernie Sanders are very pissed off. Who can blame them?

And as for the "Trump" women who appeared out of the dust of History most were quickly debunked. But to go madly politically correct at very bad language, that simply tells me you have never been around a bunch of athletes of EITHER sex, or know women who have had jobs where they dealt with a bunch of stupid, bored men, or are possibly - even pretending. I have heard much worse, and heard OF much worse being said in the real world. I didn't like what Trump said, but to have a national wave of "oh my, I have never heard of such language" was sadly amusing to me and a a short list of people I know or knew from long ago who called me up to give their "insight" and amazement. A few athletes of both sexes and a couple of (laughing) women who worked "working insurance claims" once upon a time who heard such stuff so often, they simply ignored it like I expect the more mature of the crowd to do, not grab the remains of a comfort blanket and wail long after voicing disgust.

The USA has 2 Very Unpopular and understandably Unlikable Candidates. It has been suggested that which ever one wins may not even stay President a full term. MORE unhappy/ happy news. But no one can convince me that either one will hurt the USA any worse than the other.

I hope to go home SOON. But until then, I am watching the Classic Movie Channel. Since I have been immobile, and been watching the News far too much, I feel a little like the Alex character in a Clockwork Orange; a victim of, and then friend to, a corrupt Government. Cue "The 9th, Movement #4". Ode to Joy, countdown on. Nov. 8th is almost here!

By the way, which ever Candidate is elected, I will acknowledge as the rightfully elected President of the United States. This country has survived and often thrived DESPITE what politicians have done; not because of what politicians did. There is a very good axiom from Will Rogers that I simply cannot recall that says something similar, but was said so much better (by Will Rogers).

I hope that something approaching a majority will take a puff/ sedative/ alcoholic drink/ have fantastic sex/ do yoga/ meditate/ medicate, or whatever allows them to calm themselves and likewise support the future President Elect. It will probably not be the end of All Things. Probably.

"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"
Paracelsus

One last comment on Democrats & Republicans who are adamant or switching their vote. I have seen lifelong Republicans say "no way" to Trump, and more than just a few Clinton (former) advisers and other long term supporters say "I cannot vote for Hillary". I knew of Trump; I knew he was a NYC builder with TV shows I never watched; but it was interesting to watch how he cut the legs off under 16 Republican Politicians, just as 75 year old Bernie Sanders gave Hillary a run for someone else's money; and how the Clinton campaign dealt with Sanders.
Both Trump and Sanders were a response to the entrenched and empowered on Both Sides of the Aisle. I understand it and I understand why. Rather than wishing to simply accept lies and corruption, I wanted badly for the "right" person to come along to begin to deal with it. To expose who did what, and caste them out of their office or seat of power. I know that won't happen with Clinton. I would therefore have only 1 choice if I did vote who might at least try. Frankly, Clinton cannot win in my state if HALF the people did not vote. She is terribly unpopular. But I don't like either one of them for a variety of reasons. Still, I do see positive points in each; these are diametrically opposed points, but no one running is all bad. I am not an absolute Idealogue.

I wonder however, just WHAT could Hillary do to LOSE some of YOUR VOTES? Those who voted for Sanders, and you've since learned the methodology of her campaign; will you be voting down ballot only? Or does your Ideology trump any sort of Reasoning?

That is of course a rhetorical question; for the vote is a private thing within ones own conscience, for those who have one. In Politics, in THIS election more than any I have seen, conscience is sometimes sadly overridden by something else.

"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"
Paracelsus

I did not know the KKK had a newspaper. Are these transferred Illinois Klansmen or not-so-good 'ol-boys from the South? Just curious..

I looked it up. They are all over the place, it seems. 40 years ago, I went trout fishing. I started to lock the car door, and was told - "don't do that, it is rude". My grandparents, a couple of days drive away, still didn't lock their cars or their house; and so I went along. I had a lot of fishing equipment in the back. Where we had stopped was a sort of fair, you know, rides and so on. Cotton Candy. But strategically placed I did see some terribly serious characters looking "the strangers" over, and since my hair has always been very long, I asked the host if I was some sort of "outcast". No, he said; and you don't have to worry about your fishing equipment in the back of the truck". It was only later I learned the watchdogs were Klan members. Weird. I was very surprised by the "Newspaper", because the devolved individuals I saw so long ago looked as though they would likely make an "X" when signing their names. Truly they made the crowd in "To Kill a Mockingbird" look absolutely peaceful and literate. But, I went back to University and hadn't thought about that trip much. I did not go back there, and not just because the fishing was poor. Some people harbor such hate in there hearts. (I was told they "were all talk"). Who knows what such hatred can yield?

Last edited by semisynthetic on Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"
Paracelsus

No matter what else has been written, I agree with Spzretent and anyone I may have missed who writes that this IS THE MOST REPULSIVE ELECTION IN MY LIFETIME, or something like that. I don't like the cast of players, I certainly do not like the use of collusion within the USA governmental agencies with one particular candidate; interference from the DOJ with what the FBI is doing; the $$$$$$$$$$$ buying what it should not, BOTH the DNC & RNC acting badly; and especially the overall "optics" of how it seems the so called "Leadership" in Congress has worked directly or indirectly with the Political "elite", (I don't like that term), to collude in order to "Pick" a candidate. I wonder, if the one candidate wins, might she be the 1st woman President Impeached for pay-to-play schemes? It stinks on ice. And the storylines of who did what are so weird and bizarre, so unbelievable, if someone wrote this as a script, it would HAVE to be a parody and comedic. No one can believe this stuff. Truth truly is stranger than fiction, especially when the cast itself is so very strange and unworldly, in a bad way.

Other than that, it is just peachy.

"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"
Paracelsus

To go madly politically correct at very bad language, that simply tells me you have never been around a bunch of athletes of EITHER sex, or know women who have had jobs where they dealt with a bunch of stupid, bored men, or are possibly - even pretending. I have heard much worse, and heard OF much worse being said in the real world.

I have to disagree with you on a few points here. First, I'd like to see examples of the racist stuff (I'm assuming you mean anti-Semetic re: Bernie) that was found in Hillary's emails and I'd like to see evidence that it was Hillary and not another member of her campaign that said such things. Second, the "locker room talk" excuse doesn't hold water. Yes, we've all heard this kind of talk, but not from an individual that is running for president. It's not just the pussy-grabbing comment, either. That wasn't a one-off anomaly. He constantly spews sexist, demeaning rhetoric. There are countless examples. I don't have any friends that talk like that, even in private while drunk, trying to impress other male friends. I simply disagree that the general public should ignore it or be ok with it simply because there are other people in our country who use that kind of language. It may be a small talking point in the grand scheme of the election, but it's part of what defines Trump as a disgusting human being and it's not a quality I want in the elected leader of the United States.

semisynthetic wrote:
And as for the "Trump" women who appeared out of the dust of History most were quickly debunked. But to go madly politically correct at very bad language, that simply tells me you have never been around a bunch of athletes of EITHER sex, or know women who have had jobs where they dealt with a bunch of stupid, bored men, or are possibly - even pretending. I have heard much worse, and heard OF much worse being said in the real world.

.

I am 100% in lock step with Paul here.
When were these women "debunked"? Only by Trump's mouthpieces that spew lies all over political television shows. No credible source has debunked them.
Not sure where you hang out but I have never heard anything "much" worse that what he was caught on camera saying.
I have been in many locker rooms, bars, stag parties and boys weekends away and I know no one who talks like Trump. Not even close. If had seen or heard something that I would be alarmed at the uncouthness of it all but I most likely wouldn't pick a fight over it. But this guy is running for President. That makes it a little different. It isn't political correctness at all. This guy is a fucking pig. A racist, misogynistic, con artist, tax evading piece, lawsuit happy, small business stiffing piece of shit.
I must admit that felt good. Getting that off my chest.

I understand your point. As for hearing what would-be presidents say, they have been, by in large, a group of polished politicians who are careful to sound like someone's favorite uncle in public. The pool of these people is rather small. Truman swore often in office however, just read his once private letters. Maybe because it was wartime and Truman had always sworn, and in a very different era, it isn't mentioned much. It is however, true. Biden has been caught saying some naughty words on a hot mic that he was always given a pass on. Billy boy did much worse than use bad language, he ruined a perfectly good blue dress amongst other items and perhaps, he hurt women. Bill Clinton was the original Presidential Poster Boy for misogyny, and he may be in the East part of the Whitehouse if he is not out with his latest/ current NYC mistress. I am glad that I did not have to explain THAT to kids either.

In the overall scheme of things, what that small universe of people running for President have or have not said is miniscule compared to an elaborate Pay to Play Scheme in the Dept of State and a Foundation that will come to light sooner than most expected and many wanted it to.

Yes, it is true the Clinton emails were antisemitic more than once; and also had phrases like "needy latino" and other phraseology that may be written by minions, but these were almost always written by the "top" people; and I don't like the oft used type of wording whether it is simply written rather than spoken thought. I have read a LOT of those emails; sometimes it was interest and sometimes boredom, but tomorrow I go home from this Hospital torture chamber. Yea! But scattered here and there are unpleasant words and ways of thinking from the Clinton camp. You can judge something about a person's character by whom they surround themselves with. Now, we'll see who is willing to go to jail for the Clinton apparatus.

Last night, I was watching only old Film Shorts from the 1930's for hours, and most of it was interesting History. No Politics. But the nurse, bringing cake, (they seem to want to fatten me up a little), anyway, she wrote on the whiteboard about the LATEST thing I thought was likely out there further in the timeline, and that was the Clinton Foundation, and the 99% probability that 5 "other countries" hacked her private server, among other nasty things. The nurse knew I HAD been watching Politics, but I have seen enough. That is why I watched Movies, but she was seemed so happy to tell me about "breaking news" that I just said thank you. And ate a small piece of very good homemade cake.

The International Dimensions of what I always thought would be the bigger scandal, was that lousy Foundation. If someone is using their influence to line their own pockets at American expense, I frankly do not care if they speak like an Angel! The 31MILLION dollars +, with payments for "speeches" in the $millions is criminal. To sell Russia any % of the USA's uranium so the Clinton's can live like Royalty while Hillary was in the government is much worse than bad language. No matter WHAT she sold out the USA for, with collusion within high ranking "Friends of Billy", makes what anyone simply SAYS a minor infraction.
I can't say I recommend it, but the more you actual read and remember of what those around Hillary Clinton say - even about HER, I am certain would give a broader perspective than the Bernie Sander comments alone bad as they are. To be a leader of a country with such power AND problems takes someone that is more than just a good public speaker with all the right words and nodding of head. It does seem, with the Middle East on fire, problems with both China and Russia doing as they please because they do not respect or fear Clinton, that a plain spoken approach is not such a terrible method to try and correct the perceptions of weakness.

As for "where and whom I hang out with", I heard much worse when I volunteered to Tutor Athletes both ages ago and again 5 years ago at a local University. Incredibly creative disgusting language. So I admit not since then have I heard such nasty language. The worst I have heard lately was "busting bumblebees" when an accident occurred. Pretty rough, huh? But the indignation of language VERSUS corruption does strike me as at least "skewed".

What both camps said was wrong. What Clinton did was criminal so many times over, I think a flow chart is useful.

Last edited by semisynthetic on Fri Nov 04, 2016 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"
Paracelsus

Bill Clinton has been a piece of shit in the past and it sucks that he behaved the way he did while he was President. I am aware of the accusations leveled against him, some of them similar to those that have been brought against Trump. HOWEVER ... and it's a pretty big "however," ... Bill isn't running for President. I wish that Hillary wasn't married to him (I very much don't like the idea of dynasties), but she is and there isn't anything we can do about that. I'm voting for her. I think that Trump is far worse and a far more dangerous proposition for the country. He clearly doesn't know what in the hell he's talking about 99% of the time. I'm going to leave it at that, because we could be here right up until November 8th arguing about this. We'll see how it shakes out next week.

It may be the 9th of November before we know if the various intricacies of certain states come into play, and the vote is very close. Makes one sick to think it possible one more long day - even a few long extra hours is too much at this point.

Nevertheless, I will accept the winner of the election as President of the United States.

"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"
Paracelsus

Where I live is sparsely populated, and in almost every election I have been the 15th-22nd person voting on a paper ballot, which seems to be the preferred method.
This Presidential Election, I was 115th! There are not as many signs out, except for sheriff, but I did see both Trump and Hillary signs. MOST of the Hillary signs were displayed in cages of assorted sizes, which is something I have never seen before.

.

...A Great Song from the Rolling Stones, 1969

"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"
Paracelsus

Crickey !!! It is 7:30pm Best Coast Time and the Donald is leading 140 electoral votes to Hillary 109. Still early, but still some of the states were surprising. California, Texas and Florida will decide the election - they have the most electoral votes. Much tighter than I or anyone anticipated. I don't know, but President Trump doesn't roll of the tongue too easily.

The American Citizenry has voted. Criminality, Globalism, and the Idea of a "Dynasty" was judged unacceptable. I am glad. Considering the very low, caustic words of a undoubtedly disappointed Podesta, (who HAD to tell those supporting Clinton they MUST leave, for perhaps unknown to supporters, the Center that Clinton rented was "up" at 2:00 a.m.). His words were poor indeed versus a far more magnanimous, and at least a seemingly genuine attempt to begin to heal the wounds of this long and draining election. The words delivered by Trump was a good start for a President-Elect.

I wrote repeatedly that regardless of the winner, I would support them as President. That said, I am so glad this Election is over. I hope that for the good of the USA, that this "elitist" mentality is tossed out, along with those who do not put this Nation back in the position I have known it to be. Prosperous, Positive, and able to accomplish great things again.

The USA is more important to me than any one Party or politician. It would be intellectually dishonest to fail to at least give this President-Elect a chance before berating him. I would have given either candidate this chance; it is a terrible thing to remain divisive and KEEP at divisiveness purposefully. This nation needs to work on so very many problems both within and without to remain at a failing, constant state of pettiness. Who knows, just maybe Trump may be able to accomplish more than any of us ever imagined. I hope so. Truly. Time will tell. With the Senate and House also Republican, hopefully it will not be a stalemate from one desired result to another, and that with so many Democrats up NEXT election, the new Minority Leader, Schumer, will WANT to work with the Majority instead of continued stagnation and both Parties remaining guilty of not producing what the electorate demand. The system of government we have must be allowed to work at more than simply getting those in power re-elected. These things were on my mind upon hearing the words of Podesta followed by Trump. I hope for the best.

Last edited by semisynthetic on Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"
Paracelsus

I really hope the American voters know what they are doing Semi, for the rest of the world is doing a massive WTF? this morning.

Although I expected Trump to win once the democrats pushed Sanders out of the race. It allowed Trump to be the 'change' candidate against the Hilary as the continuity candidate. I think Sanders would have wiped the floor with Trump.

trump said there are parts of london that the police are scared to go to due to radical islamist, now there are huge chunks of america that people are scared to go to for the very real threat of trump...

though i have to say it is heartwarming how a billionaire who got rich from his daddy can declare bankrupcy at least 4 times on casinos and still becoming one of the most poweerful figures in the world. nice to see him doing it for the little guy on his knees and moving away from the elitest model by which i mean dynesties and big money! ...

seen the markets today? they are having to create a new bottom after brexit...

“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

I believe the Stones are livid that he kept using that tune. I know I would have been. I wouldn't want to appear to endorse a campaign where the potential Vice-President denies evolution and believes the earth is only about 6000 years old!

I have never been so embarrassed to call myself an American as I am today, and that's saying something. I take a small amount of solace in the fact that I live in a blue state floating in a sea of red that feeds off of hatred and fear. FUCK THIS SHIT. Let's set Trump aside for a minute and look at who is going to occupy his cabinet: Guliani (literally has dementia), Dr. Ben Carson (batshit crazy anit-science creationist ... and somehow an actual doctor); Christie (sycophant, dipshit, 100% responsible for Bridgegate, which he let his aides take the fall for), Gingrich (racist prick). I'm sure Palin will rear her disgusting head here soon, too. The list goes on an on.

The entire government is now run by Republicans. Soon the Supreme Court, too, thanks to somehow unchecked GOP obstructionism. We can say goodbye to most women's rights, Planned Parenthood, any kind of reasonable gun laws, gay marriage ... what am I forgetting? Oh right, Obamacare! Great. God forbid you have a preexisting condition. I feel terrible for all of the people who rely on the ACA for healthcare, because it's going away and the uninsured rate is going to skyrocket. Christ.

This morning I had to explain to my daughter than a literal orange monster just became President of our country. She's 7 and she has a grasp on at least a portion of the severity of the situation. It breaks my heart.

I believe the Stones are livid that he kept using that tune. I know I would have been. I wouldn't want to appear to endorse a campaign where the potential Vice-President denies evolution and believes the earth is only about 6000 years old!

The Stones are one of my favorite bands. I would be very disappointed if Fees or some other arrangement had not been made that allowed the use of a great and Ironic piece, while still allowing The Stones to publicly disagree with its use. As for the future VP, I doubt if his religious beliefs or the age of the Earth will interfere with more pressing problems on this plane in the here and now.

"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"
Paracelsus