I've been reading a lot about this topic and I think that Obama will regret escalating our presence in Afghanistan. I know this is supposed to be the good war, but I see no positive outcomes there. If we had a Pakistani government that was willing to engage the tribal factions from the backside, the situation would be different, but the extremists are going to have free reign, post Musharref. I really believe we should cut and cut clean. Can someone tell me why I'm wrong?

saden1

01-27-2009 11:12 PM

Re: We Should Leave Afghanistan

You want a Jack Bauer scenario? That entire country of Pakistan is a Jack Bauer scenario. No question, Obama is getting himself deeper into a pile of shit covered quicksand. The only long term solution I see to any of our middle east problems is through having the Palestinian situation sorted out or leaving that entire region alone.

[quote=saden1;523524]You want a Jack Bauer scenario? That entire country of Pakistan is a Jack Bauer scenario. No question, Obama is getting himself deeper into a pile of shit covered quicksand. The only long term solution I see to any of our middle east problems is through having the Palestinian situation sorted out or leaving that entire region alone.

I think that if every Palestinian on Earth lived like Colonel Sanders, we would still be ****ed. I don't think the Jihadists give a flying **** about the Palestinians. Bin Laden didn't leave the comfy confines of Arabia to fight the Jews. He went to fight the Russians. Even though the infidel. Satanic Jews are much closer to his beloved holy sites than the Russians have ever been. Why?

1. He doesn't care about the Palestinians, and

2. He knows the Israelis would have blasted him into Paradise about two weeks after he crossed their radar. He's always been quite careful to steer clear of the Mossads wrath. If Jews are the problem, why is he blowing up trains in Spain? Because he knows the Israelis would cut his ****ing throat.

Trample the Elderly

01-28-2009 12:34 AM

Re: We Should Leave Afghanistan

Genghis Khan never had problems with terrorist?

Pakistan will never give up her proxies which it uses against China, India, and Russia. The Taliban is a Pakistani creation not a home grown Afghan one.

Saddam Hussein knew how to deal with terrorist, so did Generals Patton and Sherman. Saddam Hussein nerve gassed the Kurds, who aren't exactly a peace loving people themselves. Generals Patton and Bradley hunted up the SS and die hards, tied them to telephone poles, shot them, and left them to rot for their country men to see. General Sherman burned, looted, and shelled his way to the sea.

I know how to deal with terrorist. You kidnap the relatives of the terrorist and start sending them fingers and eyeballs until they cut out the BS. That's what the KGB did and they stopped having problems with them. Don't think we're capable of that? Read up on the Marine campaigns in the Phillipines.

No, we're not going to win this BS, police action, nation building war. You're not going to spread Democracy or change any hearts or minds. We might as well pull out if we don't plan on winning.

These people are playing hard ball and for keeps. They're in it for the long haul. We're trying to take the high road. It doesn't matter who's the President or which party controls Congress. They'll wait us out. The American public isn't hardened enough for a real war and can't stomach real loss. I thought we could after 9/11. I was wrong.

I know how to win. Use tactical nukes on all of the major cities of a terrorist state, nerve gas and fire bomb the lessor cities, and follow that up with flame-throwing tanks and the infantry. No quarter to the enemies. Men, women, children, F em. Better their women than mine. That's if you want to win.

Funny, that's how we beat another fanatical dedicated enemy, the Japanese. They had a modern industrial grid too. The terrorist have nothing.

As for the Arab gutter. They're Dictators would've kept them in check once they saw we were for real. Did anyone take notice after Iraq fell that Libya gave up its N.B.C programs? Besides, we can always play them against each other like we did the Indians. No one would give a damn about them if they didn't have all of that oil. There will be no peace as long as there is an Israel and even then. . . .

If we had nuked that country (Afghanistan) to begin with this would've been the shortest war we had ever fought. Seeing how we've already paid for all of our nuclear weapons, the cheapest too.

I don't know about y'all but I'm not dying for anyone's freedom but my own. Better to live on your feet than to die on your knees.

dmek25

01-28-2009 12:42 AM

Re: We Should Leave Afghanistan

[quote=saden1;523524]You want a Jack Bauer scenario? That entire country of Pakistan is a Jack Bauer scenario. No question, Obama is getting himself deeper into a pile of shit covered quicksand. The only long term solution I see to any of our middle east problems is through having the Palestinian situation sorted out or [B]leaving that entire region alone.[/B]

You can't win against terrorists via [URL="http://www.rand.org/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1738/"]military action[/URL].[/quote]
this gets my vote. these people are trained killers. its what they do. its what they want to do. period.

saden1

01-28-2009 01:02 AM

Re: We Should Leave Afghanistan

[quote=70Chip;523528]I think that if every Palestinian on Earth lived like Colonel Sanders, we would still be ****ed. I don't think the Jihadists give a flying **** about the Palestinians. Bin Laden didn't leave the comfy confines of Arabia to fight the Jews. He went to fight the Russians. Even though the infidel. Satanic Jews are much closer to his beloved holy sites than the Russians have ever been. Why?

1. He doesn't care about the Palestinians, and

2. He knows the Israelis would have blasted him into Paradise about two weeks after he crossed their radar. He's always been quite careful to steer clear of the Mossads wrath. If Jews are the problem, why is he blowing up trains in Spain? Because he knows the Israelis would cut his ****ing throat.[/quote]

He doesn't [URL="http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/international/fatwa_1996.html"]care about Palestinian[/URL]? You must not listen to what him and his lieutenant say in those videos. Also, I very much doubt when they're recruiting new jihadists they start off with "americans...we hate their way of life...we should kill them." I suspect the pitch goes something like "they kill our people, they rape our land, they impose their way of life...join us in our fight for freedom."

I very much doubt he is afraid of the Israelis. The problem with attacking inside Israel is that Israel is a fortress. Sure, he could attack Israeli embassies and such but why bother when your primary target is America and what you believe to be the root of evil and responsible for propping Israel and The Sauds? Going after Israel is small time shit and simply not worth his time and effort compared to America.

You give Mossad too much credit. If Mossad is so good why haven't we asked them to help us find him and take him out? I mean, we gag on Israel's ball 24/7 the least they could do give us hand now and then. Don't get it twisted homie, no one is better trained and better equipped than the CIA. You're talking about Israel, he's thinking Super Powers. The only edge the Mossad have on the CIA is that with Obama we will now follow international law.

As for the attack on Spain you will note that Spain was originally part of the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq"]coalition of the willing[/URL] and that Al Qaeda declared war on every nation part of the coalition. You will also noted that the Spanish government that signed on with the Iraq war was defeated in the next election.

FRPLG

01-28-2009 11:08 AM

Re: We Should Leave Afghanistan

[quote=saden1;523524]You want a Jack Bauer scenario? That entire country of Pakistan is a Jack Bauer scenario. No question, Obama is getting himself deeper into a pile of shit covered quicksand. The only long term solution I see to any of our middle east problems is through having the Palestinian situation sorted out or leaving that entire region alone.

I think long term you're right. It's why we have to figure out how not to care about that region of the world. We don't have terrorist Africans coming after our ass because we don't pay attention to them. They could really care less about us. But there are many similarities between the environments. F...oil and our need for it. It is kicking our ass.

redskinjim

01-28-2009 11:50 AM

Re: We Should Leave Afghanistan

lets get the hell out before its to late. the afghan war wrecked the soviets economy and before long we will be next just sit back and watch as the economies of the world collapse (see iceland) get out while you can barack

Trample the Elderly

01-28-2009 12:22 PM

Re: We Should Leave Afghanistan

[quote=dmek25;523536]this gets my vote. these people are trained killers. its what they do. its what they want to do. period.[/quote]

What you're implying is that Americans are not.

I suggest you read:

"The greatest soldier of the war: Story of Sergeant Alvin York, the Christian soldier who went through the great war winning the highest honors ever given a private, his testimony and life sketch" By George W Ridout. By all accounts York was a mild and meek Christian fellow, until it was kill or be killed. Then he turned into a brutal killing machine who took over a hundred Germans prisoner by himself.

"His Time in Hell: A Texas Marine in France" By Warren Jackson. Americans are no strangers to nerve gas, carnage, and down and dirty trench fighting.

"To Hell and Back" By Audie Murphy. Murphy was another meek and mild man who was turned down by the Marines and the Navy. The Army gave him a shot at killing Germans and he excelled at it and became the highest decorated soldier of WWII.

"With the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa " By Eugene Sledge. There is no such thing as a Geneva Convention in a real war.

"Their War for Korea: American, Asian, and European Combatants and Civilians, 1945-1953" By Allan R. Millett. Don't think American's have a stomach for real combat. The Chinese thought the same thing. That was until Captain Millet led a bayonet charge and overran a numerically superior Red Army unit.

"Marine Sniper: 93 Confirmed Kills" By Charles Henderson. An excellent account of Carlos Hathcock, one of the best professional killers of the Vietnam war.

"Lone Survivor: The Eyewitness Account of Operation Redwing and the Lost Heroes of SEAL Team 10" By Marcus Luttrell and Patrick Robinson. America is still producing the most hardened professional killers the world has ever known.

I've been thinking it's about time we Americans start protesting the Afghans and buring their flag and making comments to harm the Taliban.

Here's my whole problem with their anger:

What is the proper way to dispose of a bible? There is no consensus. Some say bury it. Some say simply throw it in the trash. Some say what I always thought and thats to burn it because it's a sacred item. So although we threw them in the trash it was burned. Why the anger?

Someone else pointed out another issue and that is:

1- they burn the American flag and no apology.
2- they will arrest anyone who teaches Christianity.
3- they kidnap Americans when they get a chance.
4- they behead Americans when they get a chance.
5- and given the chance I'm sure they would burn or destroy a bible.

Yet we have to apologize to them for disposing of a sacred article the way we believe it's supposed to be disposed? Maybe if everytime we saw them burn and American flag on TV we ran into the streets burning Quran's they would get the hint. or everytime we hear of an American taken hostage we ran into the streets burning Quran's they would get the hint. or everytime they made a threat we ran into the streets calling for their heads they would get the hint. Not that their heads aren't already on the list (Taliban) but if nothing else we should be mocking it. Call for Americans heads we call for Taliban's heads. Burn our flag we'll burn your Quran. We can lower ourselves to their standards until they get the picture.

mooby

02-23-2012 11:12 AM

Re: We Should Leave Afghanistan

This should be moved to the politics forum.

Also s/n: TTE is a crazy dude.

But I do agree with the original point. What do we have to gain from staying in Afghanistan? Nothing imo. 2014 (if my understanding is correct of the deadline to pull out from there) can't come fast enough imo.

SBXVII

02-23-2012 11:36 AM

Re: We Should Leave Afghanistan

Here's my other major issue with us being in the Middle East. Well maybe I got more then one more. lol. But ... if you talk to the military you will see that our gov. nor the military are passing on any information to the public over there. Are we not allowed to use their airways? not allowed to produce news papers? not allowed to drop leaflets? the general public does not know why we are there, has no clue as to what we are doing, and does not want to have anything to do with us.

Then a few Taliban officials get upset over anything they simply use the public by spreading rumors and gossip to get the public to react.

My next issue is .... at some point does it not dawn on the citizens and lower level Taliban that the leaders fail to endanger their lives or livelyhood? How about some leadership by example. Are the general public and lower level Taliban not worth anything and that it's ok for them to die but the top Taliban are too important. Too good. I think not.

Alvin Walton

02-23-2012 11:49 AM

Re: We Should Leave Afghanistan

Afghanistan majorly blows for a lot of reasons.
Either way I think our mission there is done, we got Bin laden and killed a boatload of his lieutenants plus another boatload of other radical arsewipes.
Need to put that behind us and keep the focus on Iran now.

los panda

02-23-2012 11:55 AM

Re: We Should Leave Afghanistan

leave our invisible jedi soldiers and drones for the cia to eliminate specific targets with. let all those other poor bastards come home.

SBXVII

02-23-2012 12:06 PM

Re: We Should Leave Afghanistan

[quote=Alvin Walton;888088]Afghanistan majorly blows for a lot of reasons.
Either way I think our mission there is done, we got Bin laden and killed a boatload of his lieutenants plus another boatload of other radical arsewipes.
Need to put that behind us and keep the focus on Iran now.[/quote]

Yes bring them home. Let the CIA stay if they want and play with the drones all day but bring the troops home.

Stop waisting money to keep them over there, stop giving billions of dollars to the middle east countries who don't have the same ideas in mind, stop being the only country to give millions and billions to countries as disaster relief and start taking care of our own country. Maybe then the gov. would have money instead of talking about taking from Social Security or Medicare/Medicade essentially hurting our elderly.