IGN: The Big Debate

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The editors from each of IGN's dedicated console sites, Saturnworld, PSXPower and N64.com, take each other on in a flame war of the words

By IGN Staff

Here's what happens when you let the editors get together in one room! Here is the transcript of the first IGN debate, between Doug Perry (N64.com), Jeff Chen (SaturnWorld) and Chris Charla (subbing for Adam Douglas on PSXPower). The question is: Can the market support the current three systems, why or why not? Things get a little heated toward the end, but it was all done in the spirit of fun. Let us know what you think.

OK, Doug, start us off. Can the market support three systems?

Doug, N64.com: Yes, for a while, anyway, the market will support three (PlayStation, Saturn and N64) systems. But I believe at the end of 1997, gamers will be far more interested in buying N64 games and hardware than they are now (and the current games are almost all near sellouts). These people are likely to be Sega people who aren't feeling like they're going to get support, i.e, any valuable games for their system, in the future. Add in the arrival of Matsushita's M2, supposedly arriving this fall, and you've got four systems battling it out. These people are also likely to be people who couldn' get a N64 in the past, too.

Sony's support is very strong and Nintendo's support is strong and growing rapidly, with more than 50 games coming out by the end of the year, and none of those titles are crappy, they're all either excellent or at least good games. Sure, a few lousy titles will slip through, but certainly not to the rate of the terrible titles arriving on both PlayStation and Saturn.

Still, since the costs of the machines could possibly even decrease below $199, for possibly PS-X and Sega, anyway, people will continue to buy them.

.Jeff, SaturnWorld: I agree, but only because Nintendo's willing to back the N64 to the hilt. Sony's PSX stands at the top because it has decent hardware with a massive game library. Sony has enough money to buy support if it wants to, and has. There's no way it can disappear in the near future.

Sega also stands to do very well in 1997, with more growth potential than Nintendo's system. I can't take Doug's assertion that Sega won't be giving "support" to Saturn users seriously, because we'll be getting high-profile exclusives, like Virtua Fighter 3, Gunblade NY, X-Men vs. Street Fighter, and Grandia. The Saturn will also get big ticket cross-platform games, like Resident Evil, Resident Evil 2, Warcraft II, and others, which are notably absent from Nintendo 64. With a significant installed base of around 2 million, a system with a library that has just about everything the PlayStation does, plus these exclusives, users will find little reason to cross to the PSX.

Then there's the N64. Take away Mario 64, WaveRace 64, and Mario Kart 64, and what do you have? Seven fair to poor games that cost $60+. If it hadn't been for the fact that Shigeru Miyamoto and Nintendo's top designers had worked frantically on their core games, this system would have pulled a Virtual Boy a long time ago. Of those 50 games coming out over the next year, how many will make it here in the States in 1997? With weeks, possibly months between each new game, how soon will it be before the serious gamer wants another system, be it Saturn or PSX? Nintendo wants to be in the next-generation game, and it'll do many things to stay in the public eye, like dropping the Japanese price to $137 or announcing another add-on peripheral. That, rather than actual game content, is what will sustain it in 1997.

Chris, PSXPower: Doug, you and Jeff both made good points, and I agree to a certain extent, but I have to take issue with why. First, the PlayStation now is the undisputed leader in America, Japan, and the world. Is it going away? No way. OK, OK, some of the software for PSX may not be that great, but there is enough of it that we can afford to have a couple of bombs and still have more excellent titles than the Saturn or Nintendo 64. So the PlayStation won't be replaced, it'll only grow in popularity.

Neither is the N64, if for no other reason than that Nintendo is willing to do anything to keep it afloat. Will N64 be around for the forseeable future? Sure, but with only 1 or 2 releases a month, it's sort of like the system is moving in slow motion. Even if it were destined to fail, it would take months and months to notice!

Finally, Saturn. I think Sega will keep in the home hardware game with Saturn, if only because they don't know what else to do right now, but I am afraid that I see a gradual decline in 3rd party software releases.

Still, I think all platforms are viable through the end of '97. Then, it becomes less clear. If Sega's VF3 add-on really is as good as it should be, it could vault the Saturn into second place. If it disappoints, or worse, fails to materialize at all, well, remember the TurboGrafx?

If every system has a steady flow of quality games, there will be people ready to buy them. But if the software doesn't come, consumers will flock to the platform that has it, which, of course, is the PlayStation

Doug, N64.com: Wow, what a bunch of horse radish! Undisputed leader, what a bloated, brain-washed PSX clone! Undisputed leader in what, the most bad games ever unloaded on the public at once? Sony is the leader in software sales and hardware sales, but it also has a year lead on Nintendo, which is catching up very fast, and is more than likely going to surpass Sony within a year. To buy the claim that Sony is the undisputed leader is to believe Sony's manipulative, erroneous PR spin in mid-January. Despite what Sony claimed (that it was the market leader, and that it finally is the king of the hill, blah blah blah), NDP's TRSTS reports, the closest thing to pure sales data shows that Nintendo was the undisputed leader in software sales in the most critical month of the year for the videogame industry. The top six games were all Nintendo games, and in fact, two of those games were Super NES games! HA, eat that! On an individual basis, Donkey Kong Country 2 and Donkey Kong Country 3 each outsold Sony's only third party entree into the top 10, Electronic Arts NBA Live '97. And to top it off, the add icing to the cake, the worst game of Nintendo's eight game line-up, Cruis'n USA still sold more than NBA Live 97. ouch, that's gotta hurt.

Second, it must be said that Nintendo 64 isn't actually receiving games that slowly. People forget too quickly. When Saturn and PlayStation arrived neither had many more than 10 games on arrival, and the wait was just as slow, except that because there were too systems gamers seemed to have a bigger choice. If Nintendo 64 arrived at the same time as these systems did, people wouldn't even be complaining about the slow release cycle because it was would be exactly on par with the other systems! Additionally, when the games did start to arrive a bunch of really mediocre games started to flow out on a regular basis, let's not forget. Shin Shinobi Den? Street Fighter: The Movie, Cosmic Race? C'mon, those games made my Mom puke.

Regarding Saturn's big-ticket games, the system does have its great arcade ports, but who cares about its second hand (even third-hand PC) ports like War Craft? That came out a year ago and it's old hat. If Sega didn't have its AM2 and AM3 teams, it would be in deep %$^#*!. Third-party support is growing for Nintendo 64, not shrinking, like it is for Saturn. If I were to bet on a system winning, I'd bet my money on Nintendo 64.

Jeff, SaturnWorld: Second hand, year-old games? Hmmm. Let's talk Lode Runner for the N64. That's been around, what, since the '80s? How about Mortal Kombat Trilogy or Cruis'n USA? Talk about winners.

Seriously, though, there's a burgeoning market in PC ports to consoles. With successful conversions like Command & Conquer or Crusader: No Remorse, publishers only need to reap minimal revenue to become successful. Thus, every system's going to get PC ports, even N64. It's lowest common denominator thinking. And developers are getting better at ports, and Saturn owners can get versions superior to the PC side's. No talking about second hand/third hand ports, Mr. N64, as you've got Hexen and Unreal coming up in 1997.

What's this about sales? Sure Nintendo sold more software than anybody else in 1996, but think about it. You've got 1.8 million N64s. Everybody buys Mario. By Christmas, there're only four other games in the entire library. Each one's going to sell about 1.8 million, naturally. In essence, Nintendo is selling to the world's largest captive audience. In the meantime, Sega and PSX owners split their multiple purchases over their wider range of choices, so no one title sells that much. Now, barring Nintendo's masturbatory sales tactics, NPD numbers indicate that Sega was the 3rd largest software seller in 1996. Electronic Arts and Acclaim (of all companies) were second and forth. Both these companies make titles for both the Saturn and PSX.

Where is Sony in all this? It's like an ocean liner falling off a waterfall. Sony has all the glitz, the glamor, the pageantry of a Kathy Lee musical on the Trump yacht. Sony has all the software because it bought the third party developers. However, it doesn't have any idea where it's going. Where is Sony's Miyamoto? It's Yu Suzuki or Yuji Naka? Their first party support is nonexistent, and without it, Sony faces a lack of identity that should define the PSX to the consumers. It's not enough to just say, "The PSX is cool. The Saturn sucks!" So what? Their developers have no real allegiance to Sony. Somebody offers them a better deal, like Matsushita and the M2, and all Sony will be up shit creek without a paddle. Sega has in-house development and branding, as does Nintendo, and that's a strength they'll have that Sony can't match.

.Chris, PSXPower: I didn't say "PSX rules, Saturn sucks," but if you want to get down to name calling, Ok, fine. The PSX rules, and the Saturn sucks. I notice that as soon as I stated the neutral fact that the PSX is the leader in the videogame market right now, you guys got all emotional. A little close to the bone, huh?

Anyway, Doug, The PSX had more than double the number of titles N64 has out now by it's first Christmas. That's right, in four months, it had more than twice the titles available on the N64 has in 6. OK sure, the PlayStation has some terrible software available. But the Nintendo 64 has, arguably, only four good games -- Mario, Gretzky, Mario Kart and Wave Race. Want a quick list of PSX titles that are as good or better than those? GameDay, Tomb Raider, WipeOut XL, Carnage Heart (look for a review Monday), NHL 97, Tobal, Tekken 2, Final Fantasy VII, In the Zone 2, Soul Edge. Need I go on?

And things are only going to get better. Whine all you want about how Sony doesn't have a Miyamoto or a Yu Suzuki. Great. I'd rather not have the fate of my system rest in one man's hands. Instead, Sony has every third party in existence clamboring to release software for it. We hear that there are more than 700 proposed PSX games for next year, of which Sony will probably only approve the 150 best titles. Will there EVER be 150 titles for N64? Will there be another 150 titles for Saturn? Honestly?

Look, the bottom line is this. Is there room in the market for three systems? Yeah, sure, but we only need one, and as far as I'm concerned, it's the PlayStation.

Doug, N64.com: Your mom, buddy. PSX sucks, N64 rules.

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