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So the original list that you posted was organized by the website by only attempts, which put Sanchez ahead of Roethlisberger, which you thought was embarrassing, but you actually meant to organize it by TDs per attempt (rather than TD/INT ratio or overall completion percentage) which puts Ponder, Cassel, Fitzpatrick, Freeman and Dalton ahead of Roethlisberger while also placing them ahead of Romo, Stafford, Rivers, Cutler, Flacco, Eli Manning and Bradford. But all the rankings "can be investigated on their merits," which includes reasons irrelevant to the quarterback himself?

So once again, what exactly did the first list or second list prove or explain or support? You already explained what the first list you posted showed: nothing. Posting that list was a fluke.

So again, what does the second list show?

Just so you know, which I'm sure you already do, you've made a complete fool out of yourself in this thread with your nonsensical statements and laughable doublespeak. Please continue.

there is no first and second list... there is one list of data, I had to post it a 2nd time because you arent capable of working with the data on your own.

The data shows that Ben Roethlisberger is not particular efficient in the red zone
Your explanation is that it's everyone else fault (wr talent, oline protection, playcalling)
My explanation is that the particulars of the red zone are not conducive to the skills that make him great

i know... i made a fool out of myself... to you, and Quest, and Real Dumb Stupid. That's the group you belong to. To most everyone else, Im just giving another nuanced opinion.

there is no first and second list... there is one list of data, I had to post it a 2nd time because you arent capable of working with the data on your own.

LOL sure. A list organized by attempts that specifically had Roethlisberger and Sanchez highlighted because they were next to each other by attempts, but you were actually trying to show TDs per attempt, which put all the QBs in a completely different order. Sorry for not reading your mind on how that list was supposed to be organized, because based on TD/INT ratio and completion percentage, Roethlisberger would be at a completely different rank on the list along with every other QB. But everyone else knew the list that was ranked by attempts was actually intended to be ordered by TDs per attempt despite no indication to that fact. My mistake.

Originally Posted by NeilPatrickBanana

The data shows that Ben Roethlisberger is not particular efficient in the red zone

And what is this based on again? Because according to that list, Ponder is better than a whole lot of people, but that's because of Ponder's team. So Ponder being at a certain spot on the list can be explained by Ponder's team, but Roethlisberger's spot on the list can be explained by Roethlisberger's skills.

LOL sure. A list organized by attempts that specifically had Roethlisberger and Sanchez highlighted because they were next to each other by attempts, but you were actually trying to show TDs per attempt, which put all the QBs in a completely different order. Sorry for not reading your mind on how that list was supposed to be organized, because based on TD/INT ratio and completion percentage, Roethlisberger would be at a completely different rank on the list along with every other QB. But everyone else knew the list that was ranked by attempts was actually intended to be ordered by TDs per attempt despite no indication to that fact. My mistake.

correct. it was your mistake. the LIST was not a RANKING. rankings have numbers... it was simply a data set with a criteria (1oo attempts). jesus christ youre a dingleberry

And what is this based on again? Because according to that list, Ponder is better than a whole lot of people, but that's because of Ponder's team. So Ponder being at a certain spot on the list can be explained by Ponder's team, but Roethlisberger's spot on the list can be explained by Roethlisberger's skills.

Why does it seem that everyone has to suck Ben off or everyone else gets there panties in a bunch. I dont get it, he is a great QB but he is not flawless by any means.

1. Poster 1 gives straight stats

2. Poster 2 calls troll

3. Stats

4 Calling a guy a pussy

What a ****ing forum anymore. Should have a ruler on here anymore to measure E-Penises.

Straight stats? As in stats that had nothing to do with anything and were just arbitrarily chosen to show Roethlisberger and Sanchez next to each other? Do you actually read or just comment moronically without aim or purpose?

Plenty of people on this forum say Roethlisberger is flawed because like any player he is. But only a few on here think he's the underlying problem with the team.

He's a troll and a coward because he doesn't have the guts to say what he actually thinks. Instead he starts a thread about how Brown is a #1 receiver that makes Roethlisberger better, then when people argue otherwise, he posts an ordered list of redzone pass attempts to show that Roethlisberger and Sanchez share a particular stat.

correct. it was your mistake. the LIST was not a RANKING. rankings have numbers... it was simply a data set with a criteria (1oo attempts). jesus christ youre a dingleberry

And you're a pathetic liar who is embarrassed by your original meaningless list and now are attempting to make the ridiculous claim that it was just data. Data in the form of a list. A list that had Roethlisberger and Sanchez highlighted because they were next to each other on the list. A list that wasn't a list but was meant to demonstrate TDs per attempt without any such indication.

Straight stats? As in stats that had nothing to do with anything and were just arbitrarily chosen to show Roethlisberger and Sanchez next to each other? Do you actually read or just comment moronically without aim or purpose?

the discussion turned to TDs, and then to red zone execution... i posted QB red zone stats (3 years worth). You see that as having nothing to do with anything... because your dense

Plenty of people on this forum say Roethlisberger is flawed because like any player he is. But only a few on here think he's the underlying problem with the team.

i dont think he's the underlying problem with the team. I think the QB is the most important factor in winning/losing... and thus deserves microscope like analysis

He's a troll and a coward because he doesn't have the guts to say what he actually thinks.

That's not what a troll is.... in your bizzaro conspiracy theory world, i either need to be a troll OR a coward... i cant be both right? i mean, if im a troll, im doing all this on purpose to make you all crazy.... that's what trolling is. so, if im doing it on purpose i cant also be a coward.... but if im a coward, and im simply not being honest, and im hiding my true feelings because i am afraid of what the internet will think if i am truthful... then im not trolling.

make up your mind on which conspiracy theory youll adher to going forward... thanks

Regardless, I say exactly what I think. It just upsets you and turns you into a raging loon of conspiracy theories... i bet your into conspiracy theories. am i right?

Instead he starts a thread about how Brown is a #1 receiver that makes Roethlisberger better, then when people argue otherwise, he posts an ordered list of redzone pass attempts to show that Roethlisberger and Sanchez share a particular stat.

Brown IS a #1 WR who makes Roethlisberger better.
When people made specific arguments about Brown's TD totals, I gave insight into why I believe those totals to be low. And then I supported it with 3 years of the QBs red zone statistics.

Sad that there's no one left on this forum to call this guy out.

Team Lunatic is small... there's only a few of you left. Overreacting to any perceived attacks on your boyfriend, as if I am concealing some secret agenda.

I was here all offseason talking draft while bandwagoners like yourself disappeared.

Its nice that there are very few left... the board is getting better... your time is ticking...

And you're a pathetic liar who is embarrassed by your original meaningless list and now are attempting to make the ridiculous claim that it was just data. Data in the form of a list. A list that had Roethlisberger and Sanchez highlighted because they were next to each other on the list. A list that wasn't a list but was meant to demonstrate TDs per attempt without any such indication.

because you're flat out dumb... maybe it's because anything that paints Ben in a negative light gets you into an emotional tizzy affecting your ability to operate at non-mentally impaired levels

A list and a Ranking are 2 different things - I presented a list
OF COURSE... it was meant to demonstrat TDs per Attempt in the Red Zone - The discussion was about TDs in the Red Zone.

It;s funny to watch you make an argument that clearly highlights how dumb you are... kind of like the signature you have right now.

So AB gets them to the redzone without a running game and he's supposed to be superman and score each touchdown? If we had a running game, could AB be more effective? You're putting a lot on a guy who has little support from other aspects of the offense, ie running game!! Why doesn't the TE position have more TD's? It pisses me off when everything is evaluated on stats, the Steeler organization has never been about STATS, it's about winning as a team, unfortunately the nfl isn't about that it's about money!

I dont care who socres the TDs, and last year it was heath miller scoring all the TDs which i am completely fine with, heath was a beast last season. My point isnt that brown should do everything, my point is brown is seriously lacking in the TD department to be called a "true #1"

a lot of praise for Holmes and his back to back 5 TD seasons... and im not sure what listing all the guys with more TDs is supposed to mean without more context specific to each one of them... do you think all the QBs who threw more TDs than Ben last year, are better?

Again, if you want to call brown a true #1 you have to do more than blame ben for RZ efficiency, TDs can be scored all over the field. He doesnt put points on the board but that doesnt matter to you because you want to use PFF stats that pour praise on brown but really theres more to the story.

I have no problem calling brown a good player, a good WR, and a great team player...but a "true #1" like you want to call him is off base under the definition of what i consider a true #1, hence the reason i want them to get a true #1 so brown can explode again