Written and translated by different men over thousands of years

The King James Bible 1611 ed. ends the Epistle to the Hebrews with “Written to the Hebrewes, from Italy, by Timothie” (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

Today there are still people in english speaking countries who claim the King James Bible to be the only true Bible. They do seem to forget that God did not require everybody to be able to speak and read English fluently. They also seem to forget that the original language God had chosen was Hebrew and that His only begotten son spoke Aramaic, whilst Jeshua‘s pupils (Jesus’ apostles) wrote their texts in the business language of that time, Greek.

Several people do attack the other translations, without ever having them compared with the original Hebrew and Greek texts. When you know the knowledge about original texts and about the original language of the Bible was much more restricted in the time of the translation of the King James Bible, from 1604 until 1611, people should come to understand that the limitations of that time had their effect on the credibility and similarity of the Bible writings from the 17th century with those of the time before Jesus was born.

Many contestants claim that the newer versions versions corrupt the purity of God’s Word or even say that those newer translation want to obscure or even take away the deity of Jesus. But that they forget that nowhere in the Bible is written that Jesus is God, though everywhere can be found clearly that he is the sent one and son of God. And when they are afraid people could become more confused about the Trinity, when they come to see that at places it is God Who is speaking and not Jesus or the other way round, they should better question if their human doctrine of the Trinity is of biblical value.

It is true that certain modern bible translations do reprint the Name of God where it was written in the original versions of the manuscripts. But also do know that in the original King James print of 1611 and later versions until the second World War in many places the Name of God could still be found (Iowwah/Yehowah/Jehovah/YHWH/Yahweh), whilst in later editions that name was changed to GOD and later to God (not showing any more the difference between GOD or God and god) and to Lord (not showing the position of that lord, being a lord, the lord Jesus, or being the LORD, Lord of lords or Host of hosts, the Elohim Hashem Jehovah).

Too many people overlook that there is one consistent theme of the Bible which would be most clear when the text would use the names of the original Hebrew and Greek writings. That way people would be able to see how from Genesis to Revelation, the Bible consistently refers and prophesies about a solution Jehovah God was going to give to mankind and how His sent one, Jeshua, was this man, Who God declared to be His only begotten son. This son of man and son of God is the thread of God’s Word that shows why this Jeshua or Jesus Christ ultimately is mankind’s ‘Lord & Saviour’.

When Jesus read and quoted from the Old Testament he did not do so in English. Lots of English speaking people are even convinced the son of God had this English name “Jesus” though they forget that the corruption or change of his name took only place in the 4th century when the church had to comply to this name of “Issou” or “Hail Zeus” in accordance of the Roman ruler Constantineto coincide with the three deities of the Roman Greek culture.

His words were written down by his disciples who got the message to continue to spread the Good News. Their words were also notated and scribes continues to meticulously copy the previous sacred writings. Crossing the borders the preachers got further and further, coming across much opposition, but getting others also to know Jesus and his God.

When the German craftsman Johann Gensfleisch zur Laden zum Gutenberg got mold, with punch-stamped matrices (metal prisms used to mold the face of the type) with which type could be cast precisely and in large quantities; a type-metal alloy; a new press, derived from those used in wine making, papermaking, and bookbinding; and an oil-based printingink.

When the German craftsman Johann Gensfleisch zur Laden zum Gutenberg got a mold, with punch-stamped matrices with which type could be cast precisely and in large quantities; a type-metal alloy together with a new press, derived from those used in wine making, papermaking, and bookbinding; and an oil-based printingink, he could duplicate quite easily writings, which opened the way to make more copies of God’s Word available for more people.

The texts from 722 bce after the kingdoms of Israel and Judah had fallen and later, could be handed over to go under the presses in different languages. The Greek translation of the Old Testament had made it accessible in the Hellenistic period (c. 300 bce–c. 300 ce) and provided a language for the New Testament and for the Christian liturgy and theology of the first three centuries. but in the 15th and 16th century with an easier method of copying and more people wanting to get to know the Word of God better, more scholars took the time and patience to matriculate translate the text they could hold hands on. For years the Bible had been copied down by hand in Latin and had shaped the thought and life of Western people for a thousand years.

Martin Luther’s 1534 bible

After his religious crisis which would take him from the study of law forever, Martin Luther became aware of a world in which the supernatural was perilously close to everyday life and at the new university of Wittenberg he found time to create “a vehicle of proletarian education” as well as a monument in the spiritual history of Europe. Being placed under the ban of the empire, which designated him an “outlaw” whom anyone could kill without legally committing murder, he was brought to the the castle of Wartburg by the soldiers of his protector Frederick III of Saxony. There he spent a year writing pamphlets, preparing sermons on the Epistles and the Gospels, and translating the New Testament from Greek into German, which became first published in 1522. Twelve years later the Old and New Testaments and Apocrypha, completed the full Luther bible in 1534. Johannes Bugenhagen, Justus Jonas, Caspar Creuziger, Philipp Melanchthon, Matthäus Aurogallus, and Georg Rörer had co-operated to this vast six-part edition. Luther worked on refining the translation up to his death in 1546: he had worked on the edition that was printed that year. Hans Lufft, the Bible printer in Wittenberg, printed over one hundred thousand copies between 1534 and 1574, which went on to be read by millions.

Luther’s New Testament was so much multiplied and spread by printers that even tailors and shoemakers, yea, even women and ignorant persons who had accepted this new Lutheran gospel, and could read a little German, studied it with the greatest avidity as the fountain of all truth. Some committed it to memory, and carried it about in their bosom. In a few months such people deemed themselves so learned that they were not ashamed to dispute about faith and the gospel not only with Catholic laymen, but even with priests and monks and doctors of divinity.” { Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church (New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1910), 6}

Luther’s vernacular Bible acted as a force towards the liberation of the German people and would become a starting point for many others to follow his direction, as well as playing a role in the slow emancipation of western European society from a long phase of clerical domination. The then recently invented printing press took care that the work could reach many people, and contributed significantly to the development of today’s modern High German language as as braking the domination and unity of the Roman Catholic Church in Western Europe.

By his teaching on the “priesthood of all believers,” which grew directly from the proclamation that all Christians lived by the same grace through faith in the same Christ without distinctions between them, and by making the Word of God available in the common language, he opened the way for lay people to study the Word of God. From than onwards more people studying the Word of God, found it also interesting to bring it in the language spoken in the region they were living and preaching.

Any baptized Christian, when able to read the bible, was eligible to be called by the believers to preach, to baptize, and to administer the sacrament of the Lord’s Supper on either a short- or long-term basis. With one stroke, Luther at least theoretically destroyed the very social class that helped constitute the social and political — as well as religious — reality of late medieval Christendom. {Europe, 1450 to 1789: Encyclopedia of the Early Modern World | 2004 | Kittelson, James M.}

From above and from translations in other languages we can see that several people often worked together to create a first Bible translation in the language of their nation. We also can see that afterwards many corrections and revisions were made. Luther was not the first to attempt at a German bible, but was able to present a superior version to all its predecessors. Previous translations had contained poor German, and had been from the Vulgate Latin translation, i.e. translations of a translation rather than a direct translation into German from the originals. In the same way we may find first Bible translations from translations in other languages and not being based on the original manuscripts.

People to day, should know that modern translations take different approaches to bring a contemporary translation. On one site there are those scholars and Bible-students who try to bring a literal translation which is still readable in the vernacular. they sincerely try to bring a formal equivalence translation (sometimes literal translation or formal correspondence) in which the greatest effort is made to preserve the meaning of individual words and phrases in the original ancient writings, with relatively less regard for its understandability by modern readers, or by trying to make the chosen words and order of them acceptable fluently for a contemporary reader.

For some people it is advisable to have the fluidity and understandability as a priority, which makes the translators look for a dynamic equivalence, sometimes called Paraphrastic translation. The main goal is more to create what the original writers supposed to bring over to the listeners. In such translations the translator focusses on rendering the sense and intent of the original. Examples of these versions include Tree of Life Bible, The Living Bible (‘renovated’ years later to become the NLT) and The Message.

For those who want to bring a Bible translation in the vernacular it is not always simple to bring over the meaning of the original script in acceptable easy to read language. Too many people do forget that those involved in such vast work are sincerely devoted to bring the best translation they can. Often they think or discuss a long time about the right word to use. Often they also look at previous translations and notes of those translations, plus take into account many criticisms which are being made in the past about certain translations.

Not all translations are a work of one singular person or of a team, nor are they always from people from the same denomination. Several bible translations where made by a team of people for Judaism, trinitarian and non-trinitarian Christians from different denominations. They also do not always start from the same singular or several sources.

While most translations attempt to synthesize the various texts in the original languages, some translations also translate one specific textual source, generally for scholarly reasons. A single volume example for the Old Testament is The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible (ISBN 0-06-060064-0) by Martin Abegg, Peter Flint and Eugene Ulrich.

The Comprehensive New Testament (ISBN 978-0-9778737-1-5) by T. E. Clontz and J. Clontz presents a scholarly view of the New Testament text by conforming to the Nestle-Aland 27th edition and extensively annotating the translation to fully explain different textual sources and possible alternative translations. { See the New International Version, the Revised Standard Version, The New King James Version and the New American Standard Version of the Bible. + Genesis 1 AMP – In the beginning God (prepared, formed”. Bible Gateway. Retrieved 2012-10-31.}

A Comparative Psalter (ISBN 0-19-529760-1) edited by John Kohlenberger presents a comparative diglot translation of the Psalms of the Masoretic Text and the Septuagint, using the Revised Standard Version and the New English Translation of the Septuagint.

Natural where the translators came from originally and which language they use daily, at home and in their worship places, shall influence a lot the use of words for the particular translation.

While modern biblical scholarship is similar for both Christians and Jews, in Christendom there are those who want to hold on to tradition trinitarian teaching and as such prefer to use Christological interpretations and religious terms. Those trinitarian Christians are often not so keen to place God’s Name everywhere the tetragammaton is written in the original language. The use of that Holy Name of God they like to avoid for “not fearing their readers” (dixit some publishers) with God’s Name Jehovah and for not letting them think or come to see that on several levels the Jehovah’s witnesses give a right explanation to the literal translation of the bible text.

Non-trinitarian Christians and Jews in the Bible translation committees often have to give into the publishers wish to leave out that tetragrammaton or God’s Name, for being able to have a sellable product.

The Messianic Jews and some non-trinitarian Christians prefer to produce their own Bible translations. The Jewish academic scholars often prefer adherence to the Masoretic Text (at least in the main body of the text, as in the new Jewish Publication Society (JPS) translation) and greater use of classical Jewish exegesis as well as common Jewish, anglicised indigenous Hebrew and Judeo-Aramaic or Yiddish words.

For the names it is in many languages also a problem which one to choose. Some translations prefer names transliterated from the Hebrew or Judeo-Aramaic, though the majority of Jewish translations use the Anglicized forms of biblical names.

By the Messianic Jews as well by the so called “Messianic Chrisitans” we often find either the Yiddish form or older English form, like using the older I or Y where we now do use the J, giving names like Iovah or Yehovah and Yeshua instead of Jeshua.

Some complain that after the King James version more heretics and occultists came to work on the translation committees of some of the “new” translations. those who say that should wonder if they prefer to be a translation to give what is really written in the original texts or do they prefer that the translations confirms with all the denominational teachings. It is true that on contemporary translation committees there are also atheists present, real linguists, who try to do their translation work professionally according to the linguistic rules and not according biblical nor human doctrinal rules.

Those objecting such mixed translation committee should wonder if a scholar’s personal or theological bias necessarily taint his or her work, or can he or she do good scholarship despite his own beliefs or lifestyle.

Why is this just as important a question for KJV Only proponents as it is for anyone else?

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For those who find there is a good reason to have a conflict over the different Bible translations we would like to recommend also to have a look at the three articles the graduate of the University of Illinois—Chicago, Master of Arts in Church History and Philosophy of Christian Thought and Master of Divinity (with honors) from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, and a Doctor of Ministry degree from Luther Rice Seminary, founder and president of The John Ankerberg Show, Dr. John Ankerberg.

90 thoughts on “Written and translated by different men over thousands of years”

The version I use is the Authorized KJV by Holman Publishers 1996. It was by no happy accident that I have is the KJV. It was given to me by God to read and to share with others. What version did God give you? You seem devoted to theology and translation, but are you devoted to God. Would you prefer the work of 1,000 new men or do you trust in your own abilities more? Solomon said in Ecclesiastes 12:12 KJV And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh. – so which men of history do you put your trust in? What documents do you hold sacred, if any? I choose not to put my faith in Sunday morning translators but the learned men chosen by God that have already done the work. For very good reason. 2 Timothy 4:3-4 KJV
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; [4] And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Do you sincerely think all those Bible scholars and translators all over the world and all those scribes which tried to take care to bring God’s word in many languages all over the world did not receive God’s blessing or could not have been inspired by God?

What about all those who worked on translation committees and prayed many times concerning their work, asking God to guide and help them. Are you convinced God did not want to hear them and did not want to protect His Own Word?

Revelation 20:14 KJV
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Revelation 20:15 KJV
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. – Are these missing from your accepted version? As for your last comment, all liars will have their part in the lake of fire. Even those that lie to themselves.Revelation 21:8 KJV
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The lake of fire is speak for the place out of the cities where the dead where burned so that no deceases would come into the city. It is the final place on earth where dead bodies became to ash, like it is also written in the Bible that we shall return to ash.

As, the character, Jesus of Nazareth is portrayed as a Jew, the Christian concept of Hell would have been completely alien to him. So too, the concept of Original Sin, another piece of vile made-up Christian doctrine that has poisoned humanity since its introduction.
Bearing in mind the Pentateuch is nothing but Historical Fiction, I am surprised Christians haven’t woken up and dismissed this heinous doctrine for the nonsense it is.

Did you not learn how for thousands of years God favored Israel? Since then God has favored English speakers with the KJV and greatly blesses the USA with it and because of it. I do not speak 100 languages and I suspect you do not either. My hope is other language speakers have enough to find salvation. I suspect they would also do well to learn English and buy a KJV.

this is the incredible matter of God’s Word. No matter how many ages after those Bible Books were written we still can find what was really written in them, by finding translations in more than 2500 languages.

We have a copy of the original 1611 version plus other versions at our disposal, our main organisation even publishing some King James versions. At our base in Belgium we also favour our 1947 King James version with very poetic language.

Look very close at your 1996 edition by Holman and you shall be able to notice that on many places God’s Name is changed in Lord,providing confusion between the Most High Lord and Host of hosts, the Elohim Hashem Jehovah and the lord Jesus Christ.

It is still a very good edition but you should come to read the words in it like they are printed in it and not taking them from your human doctrines. Only that way you shall be able to come to see the truth. Please when there is written son of God do think son of God and do not think god-son, the same whenit talks about the eternal God do not take it there being spoken about the man who had a birth and who really died, was called son of man and son of God, Jesus Christ.

It is good that you may have found peace. We also hope you shall have found the real Jesus, the sent one from God in whom we should have faith and look forward to his judgement, making sure that we shall be able to enter the small gate to the Kingdom of God.

Matthew 7:13-14 KJV
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: [14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. This refers to eternity, Heaven or Hell, damnation in the lake of fire or salvation in Heaven.

You are mistaken Belgium. No one spends eternity in either place. The only hell there is now is the Grave where all the dead humans are. We will only be in heaven 7 years, not for eternity. The meek inherit the earth, remember?

We also believe sheol/hades is the grave, the place where all dead lands. We never said we would be in heaven for eternity, but we believe Jesus is now in heaven, though he will soon return to judge the living and the dead.

Sunday morning translators are guilty of many offenses. One is when they say, “a better translation would be…” The more honest statement would be in my opinion a better translation would be…. They are merely substituting their opinion or their understanding of another translators work. Why not trust in the work already done. Instead they criticize God’s chosen and come up with errant concepts such as the modern and popular agape love. God’s love is indeed great, but he does not love foolishly or without expectations. Instead these nuevo translators would tell us God loves unconditionally. Read John 3:16 it comes with the condition we believe. Christianity is fraught with conditions. If we sin and do not repent, God may love us, but we are bound for Hell, where he will love us from afar. It sounds as if you are better educated than the average Sunday morning translator. I advise you to make sure your foundation, build faith – don’t waste your days attacking people’s faith in the KJV – rather accept it and in choosing the KJV you will find peace. You might glance at one of my more recent posts, Does Modern Really Equal Better.

What would be the bad thing for being bound for hell, which is the place where animals, plants and human beings end up, in the grave, where there is no feeling, no pain or sorrow any more? Perhaps you believe the false human doctrine of certain churches who frighten their people with a burning place, but God is clear that when man dies he has paid for his sins. God does not demand a second or third retribution or does not give one or two more penalties. wit death we have paid for our sins.

But yes if we repent for what we have done wrong we may have the hope in something better than that eternal end to our life, looking forward to an non ending life in God’s paradise, the Kingdom of God.

We do not attack the KJV but want to point the finger to those KJV-only believers who prefer to see their own church doctrines not to be endangered by a more accurate contemporary translation.

Revelation 20:14 KJV
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Revelation 20:15 KJV
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. – Are these missing from your accepted version? As for your last comment, all liars will have their part in the lake of fire. Even those that lie to themselves.Revelation 21:8 KJV
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The second death is that what shall happen to those after Jesus has returned and would not be found good enough to enter the Kingdom of God … they shall receive their second death, which is the last and final death … becoming dust and nothing any more.

Dear Mr. Wolfe, there is no intention at all to withhold any comment given here on this site. All non-spam messages, even those we do not agree with, are published. So you should be able to find all your messages you posted to us on our site. In case this would not be so, please do let us know.

Though we ask our readers not to accept straight ahead answers to their letters. We are not every day on the net, and not every day active on this platform. As such it always can take some days before a new article is published as well before reactions to published articles are notified and allowed to appear. Once a first reaction by a reader is allowed to be published, his or her following reactions become automatically published when that person reacts (except when there are more than one link included, because than we do have to approve it first). In this way readers often will be able to see and read it even before we do. (For that reason we apologise to our readers in case not appropriate postings would be placed by people from outside our association.)

Our apologies for people who react for the first time and perhaps have to wait a few days before their reaction appears on this platform.

Mr. Wolfe we are very grateful that you want to take time to reply to the messages on this site and hope we shall find more such interesting contributions by you.

With your remark of “Sundaymorning translators” do you mean that we are bad writers who do not know about what they are talking or do you just mean we are (bad) amateurs? Though you also write: “It sounds as if you are better educated than the average Sunday morning translator.” so that may give us some positive hope.But strangely enough you seem to think we attacked people who read the KJV, which we did not.

You wrote: “don’t waste your days attacking people’s faith in the KJV – rather accept it and in choosing the KJV you will find peace.”
We read several KJV and notice also the many differences in it which lots of KJV-only readers do not see or do not know.We still find many who say the KJV is the only true Bible and do think they read the original KJV which they do not, but seem to used a re-translated or revised version. We only want to point this out and give an indication of the flaws or weaker elements of the KJV which was made when not yet so much knowledge was available.

Sunday morning translators are the many preachers who have taken one 3 hour course in Greek or Latin or perhaps two or three semesters and feel they can offer a better translation than the 70 or so learned men chosen by God which translated the KJV. I do not bunch you in that group you yourself will have to decide where you fit. You seem to care more about Bible research than sound doctrine. You do not even believe nor understand Hell. Fear not man, but he who can destroy body and soul in Hell. It is everlasting. It is not nonexistence, but everlasting torment. The biggest sin is probably hubris. You cannot find peace in the completed work of the KJV, but have found false doctrine and comfort in other teachers or translations. I am not aware of any translation that says Hell is where trees and animals go as you stated. You deny that you attack the KJV, but singled out my KJV only post and tried to post about five items contrary to the faith of myself and my 20 or so followers. I do not believe that there is a BETTER translation available. You have given me food for thought, but most of your points I was already aware of. Please read A Better Translation Would Be @ saltwaterheart.com

Rev. 20:10 says that only the Beast, the False Prophet and the Devil will be tormented day and night forever, not unbelieving humans.
Ezek 28:18 gives the impression that even the Devil will be brought to ashes.
and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
KJV

Your mistake here is reading into it that those not written in the book of life refers to mortals. In another place fear God who can destroy both body and soul in Hell. Non-existance is a daydream for those of us stuck in our sins, but it is simply not scripturally based.

Those who shall die the first and second death are also registered in the book of life and death. All people, animals and plans are mortal. Even those who believe in Christ are mortals, notwhitstanding they having a nice prospect of having the possibility to enter the small gate of the Kingdom of God in case they lived according to God’s Law an din case they went against it, repent for what they did wrong. If people do not repent they will face the same death as the non-believers.

8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
KJV

Rev 20:14-15
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
KJV

Everyone who is cast into the Lake of Fire dies, for a 2nd time. As in the 1st death: Eccl 9:10
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might; for there is no activity or planning or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol where you are going.
NASU
The dead are dead and they don’t even know it.

We believe in hell being the grave, as is written in the original scriptures, the place where we all go to, plants, animals and human beings to become dust again. This you also can find in the KJV.

In the KJV the sheol/hades is the Grave

Ecclesiastes 9:5-10 KJV-1611 (5) For the liuing know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither haue they any more a reward, for the memorie of them is forgotten. (6) Also their loue, and their hatred, and their enuy is now perished; neither haue they any more a portion for euer in any thing that is done vnder the Sunne. (7) Goe thy way, eate thy bread with ioy, and drinke thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy workes. (8) Let thy garments bee alwayes white; and let thy head lacke no oyntment. (9) Liue ioyfully with the wife, whom thou louest, all the dayes of the life of thy vanitie, which he hath giuen thee vnder the Sunne, all the dayes of thy vanitie: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest vnder the Sunne. (10) Whatsoeuer thy hand findeth to doe, doe it with thy might: for there is no worke, nor deuice, nor knowledge, nor wisedome in the graue, whither thou goest.

Psalms 146:4 KJV-1611 His breath goeth foorth, he returneth to his earth: in that very day his thoughts perish.

Psalms 31:17 KJV-1611 Let mee not be ashamed, O Lord, for I haue called vpon thee: let the wicked be ashamed, and let them be silent in the graue.

You most certainly do not understand it, and I strongly suggest you set about doing some serious research.

Start with the term Gehenna.
For what it’s worth, the character Jesus of Nazareth is portrayed as a Jew and Jews have no notion of the make believe Christian Hell you seem to believe is right doctrine.

Jesus was a Jew who had the same understanding of “Hell”like all Christians should have, the place where all the dead go to, i..e the grave. In the Bible is also written that Jesus spend three days in hell, meaning that he was three days in the grave or tomb.

Probably you have an idea of certain Christians view of a place of torture. Jehovah God is not such a cruel God that he demands another penalty for our sins than ‘death’.

Jesus was a Jew who had the same understanding of “Hell”like all Christians should have,

The Christian Hell (eternal torture etc) would have been anathema to any Jew, especially a character such as Jesus of Nazareth.
The Christian Hell is simply a church construct simile to what Dante conceived.
It is a complete work of fiction.

The Christian Hell you think of (eternal torture etc) is not at all what according real Christians and according the Bible hell is. You seem to be stuck with your surroundings their idea about hell being a place of hellfire where ghosts or souls of people go to after death. You even believe in some of their idea of purgatory, being some of the antechambers of that hell. But that is all not scriptural. So we keep saying what we wrote above what Christians should believe like their master teacher believed.

The vast majority of ( official ) Christians have been brought up to believe in Hell being a place of eternal damnation and torture.
If one does not accept the character Jesus of Nazareth as one’s savior then Hell is where one will go – to be tortured for eternity with no chance of reprieve.

This vision is complete anathema to Jewish religious thought.
The character, Jesus of Nazareth as portrayed in the bible was a Jew and therefore would never have taught this later and entirely church-constructed version of Hell as most Christians understand it.

Yes Jesus never taught this idea which came from Greek-Roman philosophy. As you know being a Christian should comprehend following Jesus his teachings and as such you should come to recognise who are the real Christians = those who follow the teachings of rabbi Jeshua and not those who follow human doctrines and worship an other god than Jesus did.

Extremely well done and accurate. You should find a way to break up these teachings into 500 words. Most will quit reading after 5 minutes or so. Happy to see someone else highlight the fact that nowhere does it say Jesus is God, but does call him in Greek the monogenetic Son of God.

One person commented on the lake of fire. What you made reference to was Gehenna, or the city dump outside of town that was continually burning. The first to be cast into this lake will be the false prophet and the beast, or antichrist; then all unbelievers or goats. A thousand years later the devil will get his turn along with those in the resurrection of the unjust. And everyone will be turned to ash.

Okay I broke down and read part of your article. Jesus is God. Do you not know in the Bible where Thomas called Jesus, my lord and my God? Jesus did not deny it. The Godhead is composed of Jehovah the Heavenly Father, Jesus the Christ, the Son of God, and the Holy Ghost. My advice to your group is stop worrying about translation and learn sound doctrine. As I stated in my post KJV Only people may indeed find salvation in other translations, they may also find difficulty because of changes in doctrine. Study the KJV authorized version and let the Holy Ghost guide you to the TRUTH.

No Dean that’s not what Thomas said, (someone we never heard from again); there is no reason to not believe he said My Lord and my god. Theos does not just mean capital “G” God. See Acts 7:43; 12:22; 28:6 and 2Co.4:4.
YHWH made Moses a god to Pharaoh in Ex. 7:1
Lower case god is used 53 times in the Hebrew Scriptures. Anyone who would base what they believed about Jesus Christ on doubting Thomas is a little foolish, don’t you think?

If you do not know who composes the Godhead you need more help than I can provide. Yes I believe Thomas, Jesus is my Lord and my God. You should show more respect for an Apostle. Nonetheless faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

god in this verse is a title, like Ex 7:1
And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
KJV
Again, Thomas saying something does not make it so. After all, what Peter said in Acts 2:16 wasn’t true either.
Jesus is the Son of God, not God the Son, end of story.

Should not angels be considered part of the Godhead since they were the (us) only other ones present in Ge.1:26?

Then there is the fact of the gift of holy spirit, which is not The Holy Spirit, but the gift that He gives to all who believe. Adding that would make 5 entities in the Godhead.

Jn. 16:13 has not yet come to pass, along with Joel’s prophecy of the Day of the LORD. There is no holy spirit guiding today. Today we have have to study to shew ourselves approved unto God but we can look to each other also in whom the spirit of God dwells to guide us.

Thank you very much Freds Wolfe for having given such a good answer concerning the main issue of our faith that there is only One True God and that Jesus is His son and not an incarnation or something like God having come to the earth. The Bible tells clearly that Jesus is the sent one from God about Whom god Himself declared him (Jesus’ to be His only begotten beloved son.

Too many also forget that Jesus did not fulfil his own will (which he would have done if he is God) and that he is the Way to God and not to himself.

For the most part, you are correct, as far as him being the Christian’s god; but not my God. YHWH is my God, the most high. Jesus is His only begotten Son. Does Jesus know when he is coming back? No, he doesn’t; only his Father knows.

In most bibles you may find a timeline of the writers. But in the run of 2017 we shall bring an article on the different books, setting them in the light of historic writings. so, you are welcome to find those articles then.

First of all “Canaanite deities” are not make believe. Dagon is not a make believe god; neither is Ashtoreth, Chemosh, or Milcom.
1 Kings 11:33
Because that they have forsaken me, and have worshipped Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, Chemosh the god of the Moabites, and Milcom the god of the children of Ammon, and have not walked in my ways, to do that which is right in mine eyes, and to keep my statutes and my judgments, as did David his father.
KJV

Second, there is no way to prove who “took” or “gave” what from whom in terms of the trappings (accessories, accouterments, trimmings, frills, extras) in the religion. I personally believe that both “traditions” (Israelite and Canaanite) came from the same base (meaning God set rules and regs way back when…before He called Abraham) and that the Hebrew (or Israelite…if you prefer that term) prophets “got it right” and the rest are just pikers.

My belief is that the core system of a “God and His people” went in a number of directions and the Israelite/ Hebraic system is the best.

Personally I find it very irrational of you to think that other “gods” are made up or as you say make-believe. Why would YHWH tell the children of Israel in Ex 22:20
He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed? KJV
or
Ex 34:14
For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God?
KJV

By the same standard I can, therefore presume you also accept that Quetzalcoatl is a real deity?
This presents a rather difficult problem as most people would consider the Aztec god to be man-made, or make-believe. Thus, on what on what basis do you judge which gods are not make believe or man-made?

Second, there is no way to prove who “took” or “gave” what from whom in terms of the trappings (accessories, accouterments, trimmings, frills, extras) in the religion.

If you have read the texts from the Ugaratic Tablets you will know that there is adequate evidence to discern that the deities El, Yahweh and Ashtoreth originated from with the Canaanite culture and were all part of the Canaanite Pantheon.
If you have not conducted research in this area of archaeology I can understand why you are confused.

I personally believe that both “traditions” (Israelite and Canaanite) came from the same base (meaning God set rules and regs way back when…before He called Abraham) and that the Hebrew (or Israelite…if you prefer that term) prophets “got it right” and the rest are just pikers.

You mention Abraham, and I will remind you that the Pentateuch is now regarded as Historical Fiction by the majority of scholars across the board, it being nothing more than Jewish foundational myth. Surely you are aware of this, Fred?
So, in light of this, I am still wondering how you square away your Christian faith when its core basis – the Pentateuch, including such tales as Adam and Eve, Noah and Moses and the Exodus are nothing but Historical Fiction?

Most of what you are saying is Greek to me. The god you mentioned appears to be a real god. We both know that there is only one true God. Since there it’s only one true, there are many untrue or false god’s.

As far as my Christian faith goes, that is based upon my faith in Jesus Christ as God’s only begotten Son. According to Matthew 1 Jesus was born, Greek genesis, came into existence, through the virgin Mary. Jesus was tempted in all ways like we are yet did not sin. The Bible calls him the man Christ Jesus, not the god, though many have made him so, which does not make it so.

People get born again by making Jesus Lord
and believing God raised him from the dead. Lord, kurios, is master, not God. When I got born again I spoke in tongues (and continue to do so) proving the receipt of the gift of holy spirit. This was the norm in the first century but unfortunately not since then.

This is where I stand. You can see more of what I believe at Fredswolfe.com.
I have referred your other comments to a friend who is nubby more knowledgeable than I. He may or may not respond. If he does, I willforwardhis comments on to you.
God Bless.

Most of what you are saying is Greek to me. The god you mentioned appears to be a real god. We both know that there is only one true God. Since there it’s only one true, there are many untrue or false gods.

The average Hindu would vehemently disagree with you.
Your god, Yahweh, was originally a Canaanite deity found in the Ugaratic Texts. (and of course the Pentateurch.
He is a man-made invention. I am somewhat surprised you are aware the Pentateurch is regarded as Historical Fiction.

As far as my Christian faith goes, that is based upon my faith in Jesus Christ as God’s only begotten Son. According to Matthew 1 Jesus was born, Greek genesis, came into existence, through the virgin Mary. Jesus was tempted in all ways like we are yet did not sin. The Bible calls him the man Christ Jesus, not the god, though many have made him so, which does not make it so.

I fully accept that your belief is based on faith. Verifiable evidence generally has no part in such belief.
As you seem unaware of the Ugaratic Texts and the fact the Pentateurch is regarded as Historical Fiction I can understand why you find most of my comment ‘’Greek’’.
If you research you will discover that there is no truth to such rales as Adam and Eve, Noah, and Moses.
I welcome comments from your Friend.
Regards.
Ark.

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HISTORY IT HAS BEEN SAID, IS PHILOSOPHY TEACHING BY EXAMPLE; History is not simply a record of man's accomplishments. Even more, History is the story / record of God's interaction with man. It is indeed His Story ~ CJD