Egypt, what a happening.

I know we're not supposed to talk about things like this here but I can't help feeling proud of those people trying to take their country back. What brave folks, I hope too many don't have to die for things to change and I do hope they change.

It's interesting, these days, when the whole world watches on these things. Kind of changes things- yeah internet

What I find most interesting is that it isn't religious extremists and this in countries that are predominantly Muslim!
These are regular people just like us who have had all they can stomach of their governments...they want change and know that voting isn't going to make it happen.

Wonder how long it will take Canada or the US folks to realise they will continue to be screwed by the government and the power people who run it; if they don't make it extremely clear they want change? Probably never happen since most of us have accepted the good life and supersizing

QuoteArcheo-peteriX
I've seen a lot of things too and will chip in my $0.02

What I find most interesting is that it isn't religious extremists and this in countries that are predominantly Muslim!
These are regular people just like us who have had all they can stomach of their governments...they want change and know that voting isn't going to make it happen.

Wonder how long it will take Canada or the US folks to realise they will continue to be screwed by the government and the power people who run it; if they don't make it extremely clear they want change? Probably never happen since most of us have accepted the good life and supersizing

Yup, it's the real deal, people just fed up with how things have been handled for many many years and they're going to do something about it. The tricky thing is the sitting government isn't going to let the revolt go on much longer and the people don't look like they're going to give up either!

Now we have a classic struggle and it's going to get shitty! There will be major blood in the streets but that's usually how things change, although the army and police could present a strange twist to this goings on.

Too bad we, as a civilization, haven't learned much in the last 100 years.

Compared to these people, it looks like we have it pretty good... just sayin

The thing is that you don't want it to degenerate into a situation like Iraq where people start strapping bombs onto their children and sending them on their way. The extememists seem to always be waiting in the wings for this type of event and swoop in when the vacuum is created. Remember, in Iraq, the good people were supposed to be dancing in the streets much like France after we liberated them in WWII but it certainly didn't work out that way did it?

QuoteArcheo-peteriX
What I find most interesting is that it isn't religious extremists and this in countries that are predominantly Muslim!
These are regular people just like us who have had all they can stomach of their governments...they want change and know that voting isn't going to make it happen.

Could you email this to Mr Bush?

QuoteArcheo-peteriX
Wonder how long it will take Canada or the US folks to realise they will continue to be screwed by the government and the power people who run it

At least you have a government. We've had elections last June (and I know very well as I had to be the chairman of our local election office) and still we don't have a new government, they're still arguing on who gets what.

Disappointing, isn't it? We think we are so good, but we aren't. Just by reading some old engineering stuff, I'm convinced certain people 100-150 year ago did more innovating inventions than they do now. And that's just in engineering.

QuoteArcheo-peteriX
What I find most interesting is that it isn't religious extremists and this in countries that are predominantly Muslim!
These are regular people just like us who have had all they can stomach of their governments...they want change and know that voting isn't going to make it happen.

Could you email this to Mr Bush?

Bush doesn't care...he's currently busy with criminal charges surrounding illegal treatment of war criminals and torture!

QuoteArcheo-peteriX
What I find most interesting is that it isn't religious extremists and this in countries that are predominantly Muslim!
These are regular people just like us who have had all they can stomach of their governments...they want change and know that voting isn't going to make it happen.

Could you email this to Mr Bush?

Bush doesn't care...he's currently busy with criminal charges surrounding illegal treatment of war criminals and torture!

Is that right, I thought Bama gave those criminals a pass... I wonder how the recent strikes are going to effect things in Egypt.

It will be a miracle if this is not co-opted by the bad guys and it turns out just like Iran. Normal people are just not organized well enough to make it work without tons of money and guns. Their former government made sure of that. The brotherhood will be given or steal enough to take over and run things if the people do not pay attention.

The more of this I see, the more it looks like large scale gang warfare played like a game of Risk by some very rich few gangsters.

QuoteBob in Everett
It will be a miracle if this is not co-opted by the bad guys and it turns out just like Iran. Normal people are just not organized well enough to make it work without tons of money and guns. Their former government made sure of that. The brotherhood will be given or steal enough to take over and run things if the people do not pay attention.

The more of this I see, the more it looks like large scale gang warfare played like a game of Risk by some very rich few gangsters.

It certainly doesn't look good for the folks but don't sell the people short, These people want a change in the worst way. Like Peter sez, you've gotta fight for it in the end, the rest is just bullshit.

In any event it should be something for the history books, I just hope the cost in lives are small. ish

Wait, the final chapter has yet to emerge. Many times, middle eastern countries can implode in the absence of a strong leader. Lots of warring factions at play here. Shites, Sunnis, Coptic Christians, it could get ugly. Remember, even though Mubarak was a dictator, he never caused any trouble for the U.S., in fact, was a stabilizing force in the Mideast. Let's not forget the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas are still around and aren't real nice people.

I realize I am looking at this from a standpoint of what will benefit the U.S. the most but the alternatives don't seem to benefit us or the Egyptian people unless a true democracy emerges from the ashes..

I read an interesting analysis a while back that said Iran is really run by the Red Guard (military). The mullahs and Achmadinijad are merely window dressing. But Iran has oil it can convert to dollars. Egypt really doesn't have much to convert to dollars so they have been dependent on us for aid (which regrettably probably went to Mubarak's private offshore acct.) If the U.S. pulls out and stops the aid, it will be game on and anything can happen.

Personally, I would be surprised if a real democracy emerged as we have yet to see that in the Middle East (except Israel). My guess is the military will grab the power. Where they go with it is anybody's guess.

What I do know is Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood will NOT be stabilizing forces in this discussion. They are both pretty extreme.

QuoteArcheo-peteriX
The people want democracy not a police state. That's what happens when the military takes over

From the frying pan into the fire >:<(

There are some examples in the middle east of the military doing the right thing. Turkey comes to mind. Their military tossed out the civil government a couple of times when it got too corrupt and ran new elections.

One nice thing about the indigenous military, they do not like to kill their own countrymen. It is made up of fathers and sons of the citizens so not likely to have a blood bath. When some other country sends in a military is when the blood really runs. Like Iraq and Afghanistan.

There are a couple of good ways to run a country. Divine right of kings has been used most often in history. Democracy never has worked because when the people figure out how to vote the public treasury into their own pocket, they will always do it. Dictatorship is a lot like gang warfare it appears to me. A lot of so called democracy has evolved into dictatorship.

The Republican form of government has only been tried a couple of places and the people have let it slip away both times. Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom.

There are some examples in the middle east of the military doing the right thing. Turkey comes to mind. Their military tossed out the civil government a couple of times when it got too corrupt and ran new elections.

One nice thing about the indigenous military, they do not like to kill their own countrymen. It is made up of fathers and sons of the citizens so not likely to have a blood bath. When some other country sends in a military is when the blood really runs.

Amen to that! Those countries deserve better government, and find their own way...
It seems Algeria is next in the queue....

There are some examples in the middle east of the military doing the right thing. Turkey comes to mind. Their military tossed out the civil government a couple of times when it got too corrupt and ran new elections.

One nice thing about the indigenous military, they do not like to kill their own countrymen. It is made up of fathers and sons of the citizens so not likely to have a blood bath. When some other country sends in a military is when the blood really runs.

Amen to that! Those countries deserve better government, and find their own way...
It seems Algeria is next in the queue....

Unfortunately, the people in Bahrain have had a bad time of it; not all Rulers will go quietly so blood will run in the streets... The world's changing but there will be a price, there usually is.

I think about it happening here in the States, a lot of people are getting tired of the usual crap.... Now, more than ever we need some wisdom from the wheelhouse and all I see is people posturing for their own interests.

We finally get a president that's trying to help and all the people around him seem to make things harder. I don't get it and never have how people can be so ........ unhelpful.

Well, a couple of points here Rick. First, here in the states we are definitely seeing similar action in Wi. But the difference here is that as a nation, we are allowed to demonstrate without fear of government forces shooting into the crowds. We have a fairly long history of civil demonstration . Plus, our elections, for the most part aren't rigged, it just that the choices leave something to be desired from time to time.

Not at all. Nor have I forgotten the Democratic Conventionn riots in 1968 or the many riots that occured in the south during the same period. I would like to think that what came out of those horrible events was a better non-lethal strategy of dealing with those situations without the loss of human life. Tear gas, water cannons, bean bag rounds etc. etc. etc.

The difference here is that I believe our government mourned those deaths and looked for a better way to handle those situations unlike Libya.

Quotealanrw
Well, a couple of points here Rick. First, here in the states we are definitely seeing similar action in Wi. But the difference here is that as a nation, we are allowed to demonstrate without fear of government forces shooting into the crowds. We have a fairly long history of civil demonstration . Plus, our elections, for the most part aren't rigged, it just that the choices leave something to be desired from time to time.

Wi.=Wisconsin. I guess the governor and Republican legislators are trying to make collective bargaining illegal for state employees. The the argument is that the state is broke ($25 billion in the hole) and can't afford 100% medical for state employees any longer. They want employees to participate in medical insurance and pension costs without the threat of a prolonged strike. Unfortunately, we may be seeing more of this across our nation as states realize they are broke and just can't afford this level of employee benefits anymore.

Quotealanrw
Wi.=Wisconsin. I guess the governor and Republican legislators are trying to make collective bargaining illegal for state employees. The the argument is that the state is broke ($25 billion in the hole) and can't afford 100% medical for state employees any longer. They want employees to participate in medical insurance and pension costs without the threat of a prolonged strike. Unfortunately, we may be seeing more of this across our nation as states realize they are broke and just can't afford this level of employee benefits anymore.

alan

O right, thanks.

Medical benefits, it doesn't seem to be a priority these days. I'm amazed at what crappy care we have in this supposed wonderful country of ours, it's shameful and symbolic! In the winter here, I watch (mostly hear) the snow plows go on all night even if there's no snow on the roads, which is often the case. Then the roads are full of holes so the road crew can get busy. Can anybody get their head out of their ass and give a crap!

Quotealanrw
Wi.=Wisconsin. I guess the governor and Republican legislators are trying to make collective bargaining illegal for state employees. The the argument is that the state is broke ($25 billion in the hole) and can't afford 100% medical for state employees any longer. They want employees to participate in medical insurance and pension costs without the threat of a prolonged strike. Unfortunately, we may be seeing more of this across our nation as states realize they are broke and just can't afford this level of employee benefits anymore.

alan

I was just listening to Rachel and I was surprised to find out that Wisconsin were the ones who started unemployment insurance and the 8 hour day, the 40 hour week and collective bargaining. Now the republicans want to bust the unions and have no collective bargaining- how does that happen?

Who puts these creeps in office and whose bidding are they doing? I just don't get it; I think we need to start over!