The way I got it from the news, I’d say it was an act of defense. They responded to multiple attacks from that area and the fact that they killed a Hamas leader seems to suggest that the strike was pretty accurate.

But I don’t think that they will invade. That would lead to an international outcry that Israel probably doesn’t want. So I assume it’s back to the usual: Hamas will attack, Israel will retaliate, how to create a vicious cycle of violence in only a few easy steps…

The way I got it from the news, I’d say it was an act of defense. They responded to

But I don’t think that they will invade. That would lead to an international outcry that Israel probably doesn’t want. So I assume it’s back to the usual: Hamas will attack, Israel will retaliate, how to create a vicious cycle of violence in only a few easy steps…

They’ve never let public opinion stop them from taking drastic steps. If the US criticizes them then they might stop at what they’ve done, but their opinion of obama is worse than rep domestic opinion of him.

I love how the OP is so biased, that he/she ignores everything Hamas and Palestine has done to instigate this. Is this like the time in 1941, that that evil US Navy base in Pearl Harbor fired live weapons at Japanese aircraft, aggressively killing some of their soldiers? Perhaps it’s like the time that those really really mean women violently squirted their blood all over Ted Bundy?

Hamas, the terrorist organization that wants to wipe out Israel, has been firing hundreds of rockets into Israel, indiscriminately for weeks now. Well, intensely for weeks, but on and off for years. Israel targets specific Hamas military targets, and then suddenly Israel is the bad guy?

You know, what I can’t figure out is why the western world, specifically US liberals, hate Israel. I mean, I know they have done some bad stuff in the past, just like every nation. But, overall, they abide by international law, Geneva convention laws, they are one of Palestine’s biggest aid suppliers, they attend peace talks even when Hamas doesn’t, they agreed to the formation of a Palestinian State, at least twice, etc. Not to mention they are our allies, and the only ones in the region, and our enemies in the region are backward living rapist terrorist jihadist religious despot extremists who want to wipe out entire countries, including civilian populations, for not having the same religious beliefs. All I can think of, is that liberals really HATE capitalism and freedom so much, that they constantly root for those that want to undo the US, and chide against the US and their allies (see Noam Chomsky). But why? I’m not sure. I can’t figure it out. Perhaps it’s trendy? Maybe it’s vogue? Edgy? I don’t have any idea. This is the first time, in all recorded history, where such a large piece of the population of a country, was so self loathing. It can’t end well.

Well. Isreal is based on land that was stolen from a sovereign country, and thousands of people were deplaced in order to create it… In this case, Hamas are the ‘good guys’, fighting to reclaim land that was stolen from them, and fight an oppressive theocracy. As far as Israel being our allies, that means nothing. They’re our allies because they can be used as a military and economic foothold in the middle-east; a region that the US has actively tried to manipulate, resulting in a mass-hatred for it.

Realistically, a full-out war in the middle-east would probably help to stabilize the entire region.

Choose two:
Religion.
Peace in the middle east.
Israel in the middle east.

I love how the OP is so biased, that he/she ignores everything Hamas and Palestine has done to instigate this.

I love the way you see bias everywhere – but never your own.

I know they have done some bad stuff in the past, just like every nation. But, overall, they abide by international law, Geneva convention laws, they are one of Palestine’s biggest aid suppliers, they attend peace talks even when Hamas doesn’t, they agreed to the formation of a Palestinian State, at least twice, etc. Not to mention they are our allies, and the only ones in the region

I also love the way you take pains to excuse Israel “sure they’ve made mistakes, but they’re just like every other country” from any wrongdoing…

and our enemies in the region are backward living rapist terrorist jihadist religious despot extremists who want to wipe out entire countries, including civilian populations, for not having the same religious beliefs.

…while at the same time demonizing Israel’s opponents, and even better, pretending Hamas is attacking Israel BECAUSEISLAM…

All I can think of, is that liberals really HATE capitalism and freedom so much, that they constantly root for those that want to undo the US, and chide against the US and their allies (see Noam Chomsky). But why? I’m not sure. I can’t figure it out. Perhaps it’s trendy? Maybe it’s vogue? Edgy?

And finally, denigrating and dismissing the point of view of anyone who criticizes israel, anyone who thinks the issue might even be worth debating.

I don’t have any idea.

No, you clearly don’t. Because otherwise you wouldn’t have said

This is the first time, in all recorded history, where such a large piece of the population of a country, was so self loathing.

…and applied it to the US, instead of Israel.

The most amusing thing about you christian zionists is how far you bend over backwards praising israel, when Israelis (and regular jews, for that matter) themselves are generally the most critical of themselves. Nearly every one of the harshest Israel critics I can think of is either Israeli or American Jew (including Chomsky). Weird, huh!

Here’s a blog post from a woman living near the gaza border, reprinted by Ha’aretz, the other major newspaper in Israel. It’s the first comment on the page, (it’s legitimate, you just can’t access the story unless you’ve registered with ha’aretz)

This is a country that routinely criticizes its leaders on every decision they make (yes, including the case for attacking Iran), a country where an increasing chunk of the population refuse to serve in the IDF on religious grounds (specifically, they believe israel shouldn’t exist), and another segment, just as religious, who become illegal settlers in the disputed palestinian territories. It is, in other words, a country with a very complex political landscape, and you do it a disservice (yes, you do!) by making stupid reductionist arguments about good guys and bad guys.

I love how the OP is so biased, that he/she ignores everything Hamas and Palestine has done to instigate this. Is this like the time in 1941, that that evil US Navy base in Pearl Harbor fired live weapons at Japanese aircraft, aggressively killing some of their soldiers? Perhaps it’s like the time that those really really mean women violently squirted their blood all over Ted Bundy?

Hamas, the terrorist organization that wants to wipe out Israel, has been firing hundreds of rockets into Israel, indiscriminately for weeks now. Well, intensely for weeks, but on and off for years. Israel targets specific Hamas military targets, and then suddenly Israel is the bad guy?

You know, what I can’t figure out is why the western world, specifically US liberals, hate Israel. I mean, I know they have done some bad stuff in the past, just like every nation. But, overall, they abide by international law, Geneva convention laws, they are one of Palestine’s biggest aid suppliers, they attend peace talks even when Hamas doesn’t, they agreed to the formation of a Palestinian State, at least twice, etc. Not to mention they are our allies, and the only ones in the region, and our enemies in the region are backward living rapist terrorist jihadist religious despot extremists who want to wipe out entire countries, including civilian populations, for not having the same religious beliefs. All I can think of, is that liberals really HATE capitalism and freedom so much, that they constantly root for those that want to undo the US, and chide against the US and their allies (see Noam Chomsky). But why? I’m not sure. I can’t figure it out. Perhaps it’s trendy? Maybe it’s vogue? Edgy? I don’t have any idea. This is the first time, in all recorded history, where such a large piece of the population of a country, was so self loathing. It can’t end well.

I was going to reply to you telling you a few simple truths about how Palestine didn’t instigate this, about how war was brought to them when a country was started in their country and their lands were taken.

Then I read the rest of your post and realised how much of a waste of my time writing a rational and fact based post would be as you clearly are not interested in fact, and instead favour of generalisations and your own opinion

I love how the OP is so biased, that he/she ignores everything Hamas and Palestine has done to instigate this.

I love the way you see bias everywhere – but never your own.

I’m admittedly biased against people who want to kill me and my family.

Originally posted by dd790:I was going to reply to you telling you a few simple truths about how Palestine didn’t instigate this, about how war was brought to them when a country was started in their country and their lands were taken.

Then I read the rest of your post and realised how much of a waste of my time writing a rational and fact based post would be as you clearly are not interested in fact, and instead favour of generalisations and your own opinion

I’m interested in facts. I know, I know, Israel is set up on a foreign territory, which displaced people who lived there. Like I said:

I mean, I know they have done some bad stuff in the past, just like every nation.

I realize they are not pure and perfect, but their opponents use children as suicide bombers. I’m kind of in favor of the people who KILLCHILDRENINTENTIONALLY not having a country of their own. I’m against a Palestinian state, because of the cost of it to humanity.

Here’s the short version. Israel (ie. a restored Judea) has a rather integral role in revelations. In order for the second coming to occur, Israel has to make a pact with six (?) traditional enemies, who predictably end up screwing them over. This brings about the anti-christ, who persecutes the fuck out of jews and christians UNTIL jesus returns and saves them, literally and theologically (as in they all convert to Christianity). So christians who take a literal approach to the bible, buy into this shit, and assume modern-day israel is the same israel as in the bible (which is amusing, because the founding of israel was based on the secularist logic that jews have waited long enough for God to restore Judea), so they do everything they can to back israel.

Got that? Israel has to be around long enough for the apocalypse to occur, after which point the Jews will all suffer hideously until Jesus arrives to convert them. Because it’s in the bible. I’ve often wondered how the hardline israelis can get along so well with such ‘allies’, but really, it’s great for them, because they’re not required to believe in revelations, so until this fairy tale occurs, they get unwavering support from people who would probably be anti-semites otherwise.

Religion and religion. Never give up fighting for what you believe in.

you would fight to the end only for religion, and nothing else. i’ve never seen the evil of religion illustrated so plainly.

Evil? Evil that I don’t want people to stop believing in what they want to believe in? Evil that I value freedom of Religion? Besides, remove religion, and violent power hungry people will think up something else to fight over.

Originally posted by Jantonaitis:Here’s the thing about christian zionism (and as mytie hasn’t yet admitted to this, I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt)

You were right to give me the benefit of the doubt. As you say “zionist Christianity” is based on the idea that the temple has to be rebuilt for the second coming to happen. It ignores the fact that Jesus said He would rebuild His temple, when He was talking about Himself. The Book of Revelation is the most figurative book in the Bible.

As I said, the reason I side with Israel is, first and foremost, it doesn’t want to kill me. Secondly, Palestine is a brutal “nation” that supports a regime that terrorizes and kills its own people, women and children. It attacks Israel indiscriminately, firing rockets blindly into civilian populations. Its stated purpose is to wipe out Israel. Regardless of “who owns the land”, I cannot support a brutal and hateful religious despot bent on the murder of anyone who doesn’t have the same religion as them. My support of Israel is one of common sense, not religious conviction.

Well. Isreal is based on land that was stolen from a sovereign country, and thousands of people were deplaced in order to create it… In this case, Hamas are the ‘good guys’, fighting to reclaim land that was stolen from them, and fight an oppressive theocracy. As far as Israel being our allies, that means nothing. They’re our allies because they can be used as a military and economic foothold in the middle-east; a region that the US has actively tried to manipulate, resulting in a mass-hatred for it.

Realistically, a full-out war in the middle-east would probably help to stabilize the entire region.

Choose two:
Religion.
Peace in the middle east.
Israel in the middle east.

Well, it’s really a land war and not a religious war, although religion is used as an excuse for some of the actions. To see who actually deserves the land, you would ideally see who had it first. But this gets kind of messy because you can go back to the Jewish Diaspora, before that, to the Israelites winning the land from other tribes wars thousands of years ago, etc. Basically, the who had it first argument is worthless. So, they’re going to either have to learn to share, or fight it out.

The OP isn’t being one-sided. He’s not being any-sided. He’s just stating what’s been happening. He hasn’t praised one side or another, or demonized one side or the other. You have.

Hamas doesn’t attack israel because islam. They use islam to gain populist support for stuff like suicide bombings (which, you have to admit, are a lot tricky to pull off when you can’t convince the guy he’s a martyr). They attack israel because israel stole their ancestor’s property from them, then ran them out of all the best parts of the country. That’s not bias, that’s objective fact. Hell, even Ben-Gurion admitted in ‘48 that the arabs had every right to be pissed at them – he just didn’t give a shit because even back then Israel had a hugely superior military force over the other arab countries.

Your support of israel may not be Christian Zionist (btw i love how you think the bible is the literal word of god, but revelations has a more ‘figurative’ meaning), but you sure dump a lot of religious shit into a conflict that really has nothing at all to do with religion. It just serves to paint a clear-cut picture of the conflict, which isn’t actually the case at all. Again, even the israelis are aware of that.

Originally posted by Jantonaitis:The OP isn’t being one-sided. He’s not being any-sided. He’s just stating what’s been happening. He hasn’t praised one side or another, or demonized one side or the other. You have.

Where did OP mention the rocket attacks that prompted the Israeli actions? Quote please.

And I don’t need to demonize Hamas and Palestine. I just list the actions they have taken. They demonize themselves.

Originally posted by Jantonaitis:The OP isn’t being one-sided. He’s not being any-sided. He’s just stating what’s been happening. He hasn’t praised one side or another, or demonized one side or the other. You have.

Where did OP mention the rocket attacks that prompted the Israeli actions? Quote please.

And I don’t need to demonize Hamas and Palestine. I just list the actions they have taken. They demonize themselves.

so what? He didn’t try to explain the motives of either side. He just said, in as few words as possible, what’s happened, and left the rest to the links, neither of which are overly biased.

No, you demonize them. You call them names, falsely suggest that the attacks on civilians are disproportionate compared to attacks by the israelis, or that they’re jihadists like AQ (they aren’t), and act like everybody who takes a different position on the issue hates freedom. Good job, Cheney.

Originally posted by Jantonaitis:so what? He didn’t try to explain the motives of either side. He just said, in as few words as possible, what’s happened, and left the rest to the links, neither of which are overly biased.

I’m not saying anything about motives. I’m saying that he said, as you said he said “what’s happened”, only, he didn’t. He didn’t explain “what’s happened”. He only listed the attacks from Israel toward Palestine. That isn’t “what happened”. That’s one part of it, but it’s ignoring the rest of “what’s happened”. It’s one sided. It’s, be friggin definition, biased. He said “Israel did this”, without any mention of hundreds of rocket attacks.

Originally posted by Jantonaitis:No, you demonize them. You call them names, falsely suggest that the attacks on civilians are disproportionate compared to attacks by the israelis, or that they’re jihadists like AQ (they aren’t), and act like everybody who takes a different position on the issue hates freedom. Good job, Cheney.

Oh man. You do NOT have the fact here. I’m not even going to try to state what my view of them is. Let me just drop some reading on you:

I’m not saying anything about motives. I’m saying that he said, as you said he said “what’s happened”, only, he didn’t. He didn’t explain “what’s happened”. He only listed the attacks from Israel toward Palestine. That isn’t “what happened”. That’s one part of it, but it’s ignoring the rest of “what’s happened”. It’s one sided. It’s, be friggin definition, biased. He said “Israel did this”, without any mention of hundreds of rocket attacks.

Yes, how dare he talk about just one attack and not say anything else.

Originally posted by tenco1:Yes, how dare he talk about just one attack and not say anything else.

He actually mentioned that the military chief of Hamas had been killed. He mentioned that targets in the strip had been bombed. He mentioned that Israel is gathering troops on the border. He questions if Israel is going to invade. He paints Israel as this aggressor, by leaving off THEENTIREOTHERSIDE of the events. That’s biased. That’s all I’m saying. I’m saying that the OP, is biased, which it is. Why all the hullabaloo about me calling something that represents ONESIDE of an issue, biased? Why is this such a nerve with you guys? Why pick this to fight with me about? You aren’t going to win on this one.

If the shoe fits, then talk about it. Here, you’re just randomly mashing that concept in between some propaganda. You overreact on every word and immediately draw extreme conclusions out of it. It’s really not necessary.

I’m not saying anything about motives. I’m saying that he said, as you said he said “what’s happened”, only, he didn’t. He didn’t explain “what’s happened”. He only listed the attacks from Israel toward Palestine. That isn’t “what happened”. That’s one part of it, but it’s ignoring the rest of “what’s happened”. It’s one sided. It’s, be friggin definition, biased. He said “Israel did this”, without any mention of hundreds of rocket attacks.

That’s like claiming I’m biased against America’s shoe shops by showing China’s new, miraculous type of footwear. The OP didn’t lie or convinced us of certain viewpoints. If you want a complete history between the two parties (since that’s the only way to be completely unbiased), the whole topic would be filled with links towards history books before any proper discussion can take place. You’re seriously overreacting.

Hey, do you like games? So do we — that’s what makes Kongregate the best source of free games online. We have thousands upon thousands of free online games, from both one-man indies and large studios, rated and filtered so you can play the best of the best. Read more »