i managed to pick this thing up last night (yay!) was just curious im planning to reforge so my dodge/parry is balanced with it up since as long as im hitting stuff (which i do pretty much any time stuff is hitting me)has anyone got any arguments against doing this? or has this discussion already been had elsewhere and i just didnt see it!

Last edited by Jaitee on Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

just spent forever getting my gear set up to have an equal dodge/parry when the trinket is fully stacked and i now have 18.33 dodge and 18.3 parry while still maintaining a 102.4% ctc this is in pretty crappy gear 385 ilvl (i had horrible luck all firelands with drops)

also found a bug with it the buff doesnt stack from crusader strike though hammer of the righteous (the physical portion only) stacks is as does AS hitting 3 targets with it leads to 3 stacks none of our other abilities appear to stack it

The problem with this trinket is that you will want to be CTC capped without it, so it effectively throws away 300 mastery to give you that 900 dodge. I can see it being useful if you can depend on it for CTC, but I don't think it's worth the risk assuming it takes a bit to stack up fully.

Jaitee wrote:just spent forever getting my gear set up to have an equal dodge/parry when the trinket is fully stacked and i now have 18.33 dodge and 18.3 parry while still maintaining a 102.4% ctc this is in pretty crappy gear 385 ilvl (i had horrible luck all firelands with drops)

Jaitee wrote:also found a bug with it the buff doesnt stack from crusader strike though hammer of the righteous (the physical portion only) stacks is as does AS hitting 3 targets with it leads to 3 stacks none of our other abilities appear to stack it

Does it stack from auto-attacks?

I mean, Awful Trinket is awful, but if it's not stacking from anything but HotR and AS then Awful Trinket is really awful.

Jaitee wrote:also found a bug with it the buff doesnt stack from crusader strike though hammer of the righteous (the physical portion only) stacks is as does AS hitting 3 targets with it leads to 3 stacks none of our other abilities appear to stack it

Does it stack from auto-attacks?

I mean, Awful Trinket is awful, but if it's not stacking from anything but HotR and AS then Awful Trinket is really awful.

yeah auto attack stacks it and it still stacks pretty quick especially if i switch to HotR for the first few hits of a boss fight

Jaitee wrote:just spent forever getting my gear set up to have an equal dodge/parry when the trinket is fully stacked and i now have 18.33 dodge and 18.3 parry while still maintaining a 102.4% ctc this is in pretty crappy gear 385 ilvl (i had horrible luck all firelands with drops)

My view on stacking trinkets is that they're bad, just like random proc ones. I like to control my trinkets and have them feel useful. I don't really want to be spending a whole fight worrying about having to be hitting something to keep the dodge up in the event I have to move or stop attacking and then need that avoidance when I have to tank again.

I'm still going to have it in my repertoire as my number 4 trinket, but I highly doubt I'm going to use it often for any progression fight.

Just my 0.02$ on the issue, I'm rather liking this trinket mainly because of how the values work out. I have more than enough EH for the fights im working on, so for physical damage focused fights I'm using this thing. But where it really shines is in the fact that for magic-heavy fights like yor'sahj I can swap it out for a stam trinket and use a mastery elixir+prismatic elixir for increased health and magic resistance without sacrificing full CTC. By trading the stam trinket+mastery elixir for the avoidance trinket+stam flask, I'm essentially trading 117 stam and 265 mastery for 880 dodge, a trade I'm more than willing to make for a fight like Morchok or Warmaster Blackhorn that is largely physical damage.

Paoanii wrote:I'm essentially trading 117 stam and 265 mastery for 880 dodge, a trade I'm more than willing to make for a fight like Morchok or Warmaster Blackhorn that is largely physical damage.

I'm not sure those are the best examples. Morchok's Stomp, which can't be dodged, hits harder than his melees on heroic mode. And about half of Blackhorn's damage is Disrupting Roar, which isn't a melee attack.

Paoanii wrote:I'm essentially trading 117 stam and 265 mastery for 880 dodge, a trade I'm more than willing to make for a fight like Morchok or Warmaster Blackhorn that is largely physical damage.

I'm not sure those are the best examples. Morchok's Stomp, which can't be dodged, hits harder than his melees on heroic mode. And about half of Blackhorn's damage is Disrupting Roar, which isn't a melee attack.

My point though is that most of the damage on the tank is concentrated into things that CAN be avoided, like Morchok's melees or Blackhorn's Devastates and Melees as opposed to a fight like Yor'sahj where almost 80% of the tank damage is Void Bolt, or Zon'ozz where about 40% is magic damage from different sources.

Paoanii wrote:I'm essentially trading 117 stam and 265 mastery for 880 dodge, a trade I'm more than willing to make for a fight like Morchok or Warmaster Blackhorn that is largely physical damage.

I'm not sure those are the best examples. Morchok's Stomp, which can't be dodged, hits harder than his melees on heroic mode. And about half of Blackhorn's damage is Disrupting Roar, which isn't a melee attack.

My point though is that most of the damage on the tank is concentrated into things that CAN be avoided, like Morchok's melees or Blackhorn's Devastates and Melees as opposed to a fight like Yor'sahj where almost 80% of the tank damage is Void Bolt, or Zon'ozz where about 40% is magic damage from different sources.

I understand your point, but I'm saying that in neither of those cases is the damage concentrated in avoidable melee attacks. In 25H Morchok's case, around 30% of your overall damage taken is Stomp. However, it can be closer to 50% of the damage in a death scenario (~130k plus one or two 75-80k blocked melee attacks). In 25N Blackhorn's case, around 60% of the damage you're taking is from Disrupting Roar. Again, your death scenario is going to be Roar + melee + melee. So it's not much different than Zon'ozz's damage breakdown, which you're using as an example of a fight where the trinket isn't that good.

theckhd wrote:I'm not sure those are the best examples. Morchok's Stomp, which can't be dodged, hits harder than his melees on heroic mode. And about half of Blackhorn's damage is Disrupting Roar, which isn't a melee attack.

My point though is that most of the damage on the tank is concentrated into things that CAN be avoided, like Morchok's melees or Blackhorn's Devastates and Melees as opposed to a fight like Yor'sahj where almost 80% of the tank damage is Void Bolt, or Zon'ozz where about 40% is magic damage from different sources.

I understand your point, but I'm saying that in neither of those cases is the damage concentrated in avoidable melee attacks. In 25H Morchok's case, around 30% of your overall damage taken is Stomp. However, it can be closer to 50% of the damage in a death scenario (~130k plus one or two 75-80k blocked melee attacks). In 25N Blackhorn's case, around 60% of the damage you're taking is from Disrupting Roar. Again, your death scenario is going to be Roar + melee + melee. So it's not much different than Zon'ozz's damage breakdown, which you're using as an example of a fight where the trinket isn't that good.

It seems like our arguments just boil down to a difference between 10s and 25s in that case. I'm speaking from a 10 man perspective, where Blackhorn's Melees and Devastates are over 85% of his damage done. I'll concede that you're right in that case, if 40%+ of the damage is completely unavoidable (in terms of dodge/parry that is) I would definitely stick with the stam trinket, that just doesn't seem to be the case very often on 10 man.

Devastates are also very reliable on a timer, that means reliable to CD once his vengeance stacks high enough.But his devastate standing for 85% dmg doesnt seem right.Im sure it does more dmg than roar (on the tank) problem is the healing during the roar, and like i said, Devastates are easy to CD (so is the roar fyi)

Treck wrote:Devastates are also very reliable on a timer, that means reliable to CD once his vengeance stacks high enough.But his devastate standing for 85% dmg doesnt seem right.Im sure it does more dmg than roar (on the tank) problem is the healing during the roar, and like i said, Devastates are easy to CD (so is the roar fyi)

Just a word on the stacking, I got this trinket quite early on, think it's the lfr one actually, and it stacks up to 10 stacks pretty quickly on a target dummy and feels like AGES before it drops off, though I think it's just 10seconds but still more than enough time to be attacking something to refresh it. Possibly might drop off on Morchok's blood.

I haven't actually used it anywhere yet as although I suppose it should be a EH gain over the 383 mastery, it's definitely not a CTC gain and I was testing very close to the cap. Could experiment now that I've freed up a trinket slot but it won't be optimal any time soon.

I've been using this trinket for lack of a better one (I was still using the moonwell phial until I got it), and rather than stacking two mastery trinkets.It stacks incredibly fast, pretty much any attack you throw including auto attacks grant a stack, capping out at 10 in around 5 seconds or so. The only time I've had it fall off is during heroic dungeons where I'm running around all the time, though I'm sure theres some raid fights that its fallen off and I just havent paid enough attention to it.That being said, I agree its pretty underwhelming especially compared to the other roles version of the trinkets from spine, I think they need to go the healer trinket route and tag on a static stamina counterpart to the trinket to make it more appealing.I'll likely replace it either way with the stam trinket that gives the absorb shield (name escapes me and I'm at work atm) but we havent so much as seen it drop yet.