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Senator Barbara Boxer’s comments to Condi

In an earlier post today, I mentioned briefly the dustup over low blow comments Senator Barbara Boxer made to Sec. of State Condi Rice in a heated exchange about the Iraq war during a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing. Here’s the exchange:

Rice: “I can never do anything to replace any of the lost men and women in uniform, or the diplomats, some of whom . . . ”

An interrupting Boxer: “Madame Secretary, please, I know you feel terrible about it; that’s not the point. I was making the point about who pays the price for your decisions. Now the issue is who pays the price? Who pays the price? I’m not going to pay a personal price. My kids are too old, and my grandchild is too young. You’re not going to pay a particular price, as I understand, with an immediate family.”

It was, of course, a cheap shot at the fact that Condi had no children, a shot that no woman should ever take at another (Condi wasn’t happy about the cheap shot, either). Gee, I wonder if the man-hating anti-family NOW gang will rush to Condi’s defense?

But the bigger issue here, I think, is that her comments towards Rice represented a version of the old chickenhawk argument, and that is that if you haven’t served combat duty and/or don’t have family members who do/have, then you don’t have much credibilty on matters of war and that you can’t really ‘feel’ for those who are serving and their family members because of it, which is kind of ironic, considering that Boxer herself admitted that her children were too old to serve and her grandchidren were too young to serve. So who the hell is she to lecture someone else about what military families feel and go through if she doesn’t have any ‘immediate’ family in harm’s way herself? Isn’t that how the “chickenhawk” argument works, Babs?

Has Senator Boxer visited with and met with more troops and their families than the Sec. of State, and therefore have some ‘inside knowledge’ about how military men and their families feel? No? Then why don’t you sit back and let those who have served or have family members grill Ms. Rice, Senator, because according to your own rules, you don’t have any credibility on matters of war and you can’t really feel’ for those who are serving either since no one in your ‘immediate’ family is serving.

33 thoughts on “Senator Barbara Boxer’s comments to Condi”

Boxer is revolting like her previous namesake:Boxer Rebellion was an unsuccessful rebellion in China in 1900, the aim of which was to drive out all foreigners, remove all foreign influence, and compel Christian Chinese people to give up that religion.
Shows like Dems of today.

When lefties can’t argue facts or the merits of their case (which is nearly always) they claim superior empathy and general all round “feeliness.”

What in Boxer’s history gives her any business expressing concern about servicemembers in combat? Have any of her (now too old) children served? Is there a snowball’s chance in hell the too young one will? As ST points out, the chickenhawk argument, always the sign of a scoundrel, cuts against her as much as it does against Rice. What makes Boxer so dumb?

Sis, these are exerpts from a letter my great uncle wrote to my grandfather; “Somewhere in France Feb.5 1918…We are now having two days rest, before we have a change, you know what I mean, and I may not ever have a chance to write again…and don’t you think of joining the army or navy yourself as you are married and are doing much more than any of us here toward ending this war by making the powder for us to burn up over here, and keep it coming as fast as you all can make it.” My great uncle was a machine-gunner and did survive, my grandfather was a chemical engineer(MIT class of ’12). Every time I hear the derisive term “chicken-hawk!” I think of him, and how all of us can support the war effort wherever we are. In this terrorist war we are all on the front lines!

Yet it’s perfectly ok by them if we have a draft dodging Commander in Chief who bailed out when he got his induction notice. Can you say Bill Clinton??? How soon they forget that only 7 short years ago we had a man in charge of our troops, who did send them in harms way, yet not only did he dodge the draft but organized protests against this country. I don’t recall them screaming for Chelsea to join the military when he sent troops to Bosnia or Haiti or launched useless cruise missle attacks on Afghanistan or Iraq.

God Bless your GrandFather and Great Uncle Tom. Your Great Uncle had a better understanding than many of our Congressional Professionals. It is truly inspiring and hopeful the understanding that he had. – Lorica

I figgured the Democrats would control Congress until the 2010 election. A Democratic President is likely to be elected in 2008 and that would prove to be the straw that broke the public’s back.

But now I wonder if the Democrats’ stay in power might be – to misuse Hobbe’s famous statement – “nasty, brutish, and short”. Congress is currently chock full of Democratic brutes with nasty attitudes (ideas outside of impeachment are in short supply). And the MSM and their Democratic pets have misread the 2006 election, believing that when it comes to power they were given a blank check to cash any way they please. Pride always goes before a fall, and haughty Democrats may be setting themselves up for a big one in 2008.

However, in order to lose an election you have to have someone to lose to. The GOP, with rampaging RINOs like Hagel, Snowe, Collins, Graham and now RINOs-in-training like Brownback and Hatch, is not called the Stupid Party for nothing. Their roll-over-and-play-dead campaign in 2006 was rather short on both style and substance.

I am the mother of a US Army soldier currently serving in Ramadi. I support Senator Boxer 100% in her exchange with Secretary Rice. Senator Boxer inluded herself in the exchange, stating that neither one of them can truly understand what military families go through. She didn’t say that Rice couldn’t have an opinion or was not qualified for her position, she said that neither of them were going to pay the ulimate price in this war because they do not have close family members serving. That is a correct statement. Secretary Rice says that she feels “terrible” when she hears that a service person has been killed. I’m sorry, but she truly has no clue. When I hear that a soldier has been killed in Iraq I immediatly go to the internet and try and find out where. If it is Baghdad I relax, if it is Anbar Province by stomach tightens up. I then try and find out what the unit is. So far, I have been relieved to find out that my son escaped, but he will be there until August, will probably have his tour extended, and the “surge” means that he will return for his second tour 2 months earlier than expected. Neither Boxer or Rice will pay a price for this disasterous war, but my 22 year old daughter-in-law, my daugher, and my husband and I might.

Well Steve Since Kosovo was a province of Yugoslavia, now it is a province of Albania, basically. We are still haven’t found all the mass graves. But the interesting stuff is how the Albanian Islamic people of Kosovo have kicked out the majority of all other people. Even other Islamic folk have been kicked out of Kosovo. Now the KLA is working it’s magic in Macedonia, and working to overthrow the Government of that country. I doubt anything good will ever come from Clinton’s war in Kosovo.

Carol H, Thank God for your Son’s sacrifice. I am certain that many Iraqi’s appreciate what he has done. As far as the rest….Sadly I must disagree with you. The fact that you are operating in the fear of your Son’s death colors your opinion. Since less then 1 percent of the soldiers that were in Iraq have paid the ultimate sacrifice for the Iraqi people, your Son has excellent chances. I will also disagree of your opinion that Condi has no “clue”. Again here we are discussing the death of your Son which has not happened, so if he has not died how can you have any more of a clue than Condi?? Condi does go on visits along with our President to visit the family’s of the lost. She goes to the hospital with our President to visit the wounded that come back from this war. She is there alot more often than we can know, and she sees the suffering of these families. She understands better than either you or I or Boxer could imagine. As far as this war being diasterous, I will disagree with you there too. We have achieved more than our Democratic friends could possibly imagine. Rare has there been aid from our Dem Congressional people, and amazing is the fact that so much has been achieved without their help. Schools, and hositals, and utilities have all been open and there is more electrical power in Iraq than that country has ever seen. There are alot of amazing things going on there, and much of the thanks goes to Sons and Daughters of good people such as yourself. – Lorica

Lorica, that would be nice, but my son tells me that the Iraqi in Ramadi want the Americans gone. He tells me that the city smells the sewage that runs down the gutters and the dead animals in the ruins. He tell us that when he got in the August the people were divided between supporting the Iraqi government/Americans and supporting the insurgents but that now they have chosen…they now support the insurgents. He used to go on missions in Humvees but now they only go out in Bradleys. You say that Rice visits injured soldiers and knows more than Boxer, how do you know that Boxer does not do the same? You say that less than 1% of soldiers who have served in Iraq have been killed, but you forger the over 20,000 who have been injured, some with devastating injuries. Our son called one night because a man from his barrack had been in a Humvee that ran over an IED. That man lost both his arms and both his legs. My son asked how would that man live his life without arms and legs but I know he was also worried about himself. Boxer’s point was that neither she nor Rice would have to talk to a son experiencing those feelings. In addition, not all personel in Iraq are in equally dangerous jobs. Some are on bases and never leave so are as safe as can be expected in that dangerous country. A few weeks ago my son and a buddy were standing on an IED but did not realize it. A fellow soldier saw the wire in a pile of rocks and told them to run. Fortunately it was a dud and did not explode so please do not tell me not to worry. Unless you love someone who is in this kind of danger on a daily basis you do not understand.

Well, the ostensible reason to go into Kosovo was good (and it also applied to Rwanda and Sierra Leone, where we did not intervene). We acted to stop genocide.

However, we stopped genocide against a group only too happy to practice it themselves. And then, naturally, it gave us great stature in the Muslim world as the defenders of oppressed Muslims worldwide, as in Kuwait and Somalia.

Carol, 1st off how can I forget about the injured if I mention them in my post? I understand what our soldiers are up against. I read information from all sorts of different places. Yes you have some 1st hand information, that I might not have, but the point is that if personal sacrifice is what it takes to make hard decisions then no one will make them. I am not saying that mistakes weren’t made over there. Personally Rummy should of surged more troops in there last year. We might have had more success. But I refuse to believe that a terrorist organization that boasts 60,000 members across the world and only 8,000 to 10,000 members in Iraq can best our soldiers, who are in the finest military in the world. Also, I know things are bad in both Ramadi and Baghdad. These are concentrated areas of resistance. Lastly I never said that she knows better than Boxer. I believe you can have understanding without having a personal stake in a situation. A person might not have a complete understanding, but you can have an understanding as long as you have compassion for others. The only reason I even replied to your post is due to your “no clue” comment. If you have had a person die in our life, you have a clue of loss, and how devastating it can be. – Lorica

Lorica, actually, you did say that Rice knows better than Boxes: “She understands better than either you or I or Boxer could imagine.” Of course our military will win and battle against a weaker force, but we cannot win unless we have the support of the people of Iraq and we do not. Most of the fighting and dying is going on in Anbar and Baghdad but the overwhelming majority of the people want us to leave. Yesterday. I also have had people very close to me die. However, they did not die in a war of choice sold to the American people by lies. Death is also sad, but unneeded death of young people is tragic. It is not only members of the US military who have died in this war, it is also tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis. It is the pointless waste of all these lives that is so tragic.

I apparecite what you are saying, however, I think you may be missing the point of this post. Did Boxer really want to drag Condi in front of a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing so she could ask her who pays the price? Everybody knows who pays the price in time of war, the military members and their families. This is not some new phenomenon that just occurred under the Bush administration. It has been going on since this country was founded. Boxer is doing nothing more than posturing and scoring political points. She is grandstanding for the anti-war crowd.

Personally I dont have a problem with Iraqis wanting us out of their country. In a similar situation, I would probably feel the same. There’s a difference between not wanting troops in your country and trying to blow them up. I spent 14 months in Iraq and I met many Iraqis who appreciated what America did for them, but still wanted us gone. There is nothing wrong with that. Not to mention if run around Iraq singing the praises of the American army you are likely to come home and find your family executed, it happened more than once while I was there.

If you don’t understand what America has done for Iraq I encourage you to visit:

Regardless of what the Shia or Sunnis do with their freedom, rest assured, your son and all of his friends have guaranteed that the Kurds will no longer face extermination at the hands of Saddam. That’s 5 million people who no longer have to worry about their loved ones ending up in a mass grave. Not to mention they are busy building roads, schools, hospitals, and museums with little to no U.S. help. Judging all Iraqis by the actions of one city would be like judging all Americans by the actions of gang lands in Los Angeles.

Carol you lay down a trump card (you think) by saying, “However, they did not die in a war of choice sold to the American people by lies.

But that statement which can be quibbled with shows a living in the past mentality I submit to you respectfully.

We are there now and it would be irresponsible if after removing a government we leave causing a humanitarian crisis. If they don’t want us there as you keep repeating then they should lay down their arms for a year to give us an indication that our job is DONE and then we can go home and then they can pick right back up governing themselves completely. Unfortunately for your argument, it is not based in logic (again I submit to you respectfully) because it is not just because they want us to leave because they could get us to leave faster by doing what I said. What they do not want is an Iraq that is democratic. Iran nor Syria want a country bordering them that is prosperous and where the people learn better and receive better health care, etc. They want to keep Iraq in worse condition then them. That Carol is what they want.

We spent 7 and 10 years rebuilding Japan and Germany because we are a responsible nation and we are doing the same with Iraq.

As for this threads topic:
You write repeatedly with emotion concerning the lives of our men and I applaud you for caring. But it isn’t to be used as a trump card by you when debating ideas. I lost my love of my life on July 8th (half a year ago) and I do not use her passing as a trump card in any argument giving me moral authority on ANY issue. It is imperative that we remain caring people but it is also imperative that we don’t think that others aren’t allowed to make decisions or SPEAK because they don’t have loved ones that could be impacted. Leaders of all types make decisions for the good of ALL (unless they are leaders who are not thinking of everyone). You may question Bush’s integrity but he has a perspective and has given you his point of view repeatedly that this is a global war on terror which is being waged not just militarily and if we fail in Iraq the fascists are not just staying there in Iraq. They have repeatedly said that they plan on creating a Middle East Islamic Caliphate. Becoming dominant in Europe and America using the resources (oil) that they would control and while I don’t have a new love, I don’t want you Carol to have to wear a burka.

I will not submit to Islam. I only submit to women.

I hope that you can one day hear the perspective. It’s one of the hardest thing for partner’s in a relationship to do when they have an argument is to hear the other’s perspective. It is just as important in this debate as a married relationship because otherwise you continue to treat Bush as somebody who is making arguments with no integrity and it only makes you madder because you discredit and discount his point of view. You would think of him and Rice as uncaring and it does nothing for the discourse. It gives us a repeated discourse that does nothing and goes in circles.

First of all, I think I can speak for everyone here in saying we honor your son’s service to America, and pray for him and the rest of the troops to return home safe, whole, and victorious.

That said, war is an ugly business, and people are going to be maimed or die in wars. You understand that, so does everyone who’s posted here, and I daresay Dr. Rice does as well. And that’s precisely what makes Boxer’s comment so contemptible.

Would you be so foolish as to say, for example, that no one has a stake in the economy unless you have a banker in the family? Of course not. You understand how we’re all affected by a good or bad economy. That exact same principle holds for the WOT. For Boxer to claim that Dr. Rice is not affected by the course of events in the Middle East in nothing more than mean-spirited nonsense, and you really ought to reconsider your “100%” support.

ST is spot on in pointing out the similarity to the old, discredited chickenhawk theme. I really doubt you’d be comfortable with following Boxer’s views to their logical conclusion, since that would mean the professional military people – and ONLY the professional military people – could air their views on any such matter. Among others, you’d see the likes of Boxer, Kennedy, Pelosi, and Clinton gagged. As appealing as that might sound, it isn’t the right way to go.

Think further about the implications of what Boxer says. Do you really support, 100%, the idea that:

* no unmarried working woman (or man, for that matter) has a right to an opinion on the WOT?
* no lesbian has the right to an opinion on the WOT?
* Boxer herself, or any senior citizen, has no right to an opinion on the WOT?

Finally, Boxer and you are both completely wrong if you think that not everyone has a clear stake in the battle against islamofascism. Al Qaeda understands that Iraq is central to the battle. That’s why they continue to confront us there. If we run home, as Boxer and you would have us do, they’ll be close behind. And when there suicide bombers are operating HERE again, you and your whole family will be a hell of a lot more likely to pay a price than you do now.

Boxer defended her comments by saying she was “speaking truth to power,” which is a common phrase among liberals. She had apparently never stopped to think that she herself *is* a powerful person, probably one of the most powerful 1/100 of 1% in American society. Her level of power is roughly comparable to Rice’s: while Boxer has only one senatorial vote, Rice has a role which is purely advisory.

When “progressives” achieve positions of power, they rarely seem to spend any time reflecting on their increased responsibilities. Instead, they either posture as powerless victims (Boxer) or exalt their own strengh and “holiness.” (Pelosi)

Lorica, actually, you did say that Rice knows better than Boxes: “She understands better than either you or I or Boxer could imagine.”

Understanding is not knowing, I cannot or do not judge what a person understands as I don’t know that person’s heart. What I was trying to say is, it is not Boxers place or mine or yours to judge what in in Rice’s heart, or the compassion that she has for our troops and their families.

However, they did not die in a war of choice sold to the American people by lies.
I don’t know what lies you are talking about Carol. Unless you are discussing Joe Wilson, but as far as I know the 3 things President Bush told us in the run up to this war were all the truth.

Read the article, do you believe for a moment that Sadamn just wanted to make nice with the people of Niger?? If so, please remember this is the man who fed people into industrial shredders, because he thought they were beneath him.

As for the rest, Sadamn got due justice for his crimes. He was hung for the genocide that he caused against the peoples of Iraq. I can show you the photographs of the mass graves, bodies still in them, they are not a pretty sight. This is what some of the enemy wants to return to. This is what your Son fights against. Again don’t believe me, do a web search for Falujah and the torture rooms that we destroyed there.

As some people suggest in other posts is that if we pull out it would cause some very serious tragic circumstances. If we pulled out and let this disolve into a real civil war, how many hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis are going to die?? What good will would there be to let Sunni and Shite fight until one of the other is victor?? We would lose face not just to the Iraqis, but to the world. We have no choice we must win this war, because the War on Terror is now in Iraq. You don’t have to believe me, do your own research. Here are some Google searches for you.

These are the people who had power or who want power in Iraq. I pray they never get it for the sake of the people of Iraq. Again I say, God Bless you and your Son’s sacrifice, and I pray for his safe return home, to a Mother who obviously loves him. – Lorica

LOL Ok Steve. Go out and find some evidence of that “stature” and maybe you can convince me. But for you just to say it means little to nothing. We might of gotten some from Albanian Muslims, but not from another single sect, as far as I can see. But then I have been “completely” wrong in the past. – Lorica

Senator’s Boxer’s kids, Doug and Nicole, according to internet articles are under 41. They are not “too old” as she claims and are well within the age requirements to join the Army. The Army’s current age for enlistees is 41.