I'm proud to present to you the Team Liquid Greatest of All Time contest, a contest with a simple goal:Determining who's the Greatest StarCraft 2 player of all time

The discussion has animated the StarCraft community for years and years, and it's time to resolve the question once and for all by submitting it to the the most intelligent, objective and rational group of persons on earth: the Team Liquid community.

How does it work

The contest is a "tournament" with the 128 best and brightest SC2 players, where every match is a poll open to everyone on Team Liquid.

There will be two voting period a week, from Saturday night to Wednesday night and from Wednesday night to Saturday night. During those period you can vote on who you think is the greatest players between the options at hand. The players with more votes advance and the others are eliminated.

The players are chosen almost only base on their Premier Tournament performance, every players that reach the final of a Premier Tournament are included and seeded in consequence to their results. Since there are only 120 players that reach the finals of a Premier Tournament there are also 8 wild card players.

The contest should run until around mid-July, so hang on we are gonna be there for a while. (unless no one care )

The full list of players, rules and schedule can be found in the liquipedia page.

Before we start tomorrow night (With a triple TL team kill ) a few precisions.

First the group stage rules: Voters chooses 2 players they want to advance of the group, the two players with the most votes goes to the round of 64. The votes are counted individually, it is not the most popular option that goes through but the players with the most votes.

In the situation: AB=4 AC=2 AD=5 BC=2 BD=1 CD=0

Player A (11 votes) and B (7 votes) goes through and D (6 votes) is eliminated.

In case of a 2, 3 or 4 way tie the winner(s) is chosen by a random draw. In case of a draw between the first and second place finishers the initial seeding prevail if applicable, if not a random draw separate them.

If someone want to make a case to swap one of theses player with another SC2 great that hasn't reach the final of a premier make your case and I will see if it hold up.And finally if you have any questions or see any problems feel free to ask.

Edit: Please note that the wild card players list has been modified after a random draw with more players

It’s a well know Starcraft truthism that it’s a game for the young, a lot of reason are brought up; better reaction time, healthier wrists, less distractions from the game, a faster brain to comprehend the game… As the two oldest players left in the competition, theses next two competitor defy this. It wasn’t only their age that made them stand out in a crowd of teenagers, it was their disregard for all the tenants of SC2. The thousand of young overexcited dreamers could have their fun pretending to know the perfect way to play, the perfect strategy, the perfect practice regiment, Bomber and NesTea have been there long enough to know full well that when push come to shove all that matter is those few short moments in the boot.

Long time Startale player Bomber entered the top echelon of SC2 competition with a bang, running through a gauntlet of TVT to win his first ever code A over already two times GSL champ Mvp. He would quickly follow this initial success with solid run in code S, a Dreamhack semi-final and his first major win at MLG Raleigh over CoCa. Bomber never was the cleanest of player, but his ability to out macro pretty much all his opponent made him more then able to become one of the best in Korea. He would pretty much follow the meta for most of WOL but with less and less success as time went on as everyone else caught up to his mechanics and exploited his predictability, and it seemed like he would be phase out of the scene like most of the older generation of progammers as new young blood came in.

The new man Bomber got to the top of the world, he won WCS season 2 against the best Korea had to offer, and finish in the top 4 of Blizzcon. He then went to a quick one-year trip in North America dominating the region as he went to reach 4 tournament final, winning 3 of them only falling to Pigbaby on a mission.

In all his career Bomber ever got eliminated of a tournament three time by player older than him, Sen when he won the Taiwan open, WC3 legend Moon who has barely a month over him older and finally none other then the allfather of SC2, the creator of the universe NesTea (more widely known as NESSSTEAAAAA). At 25 he was already considered an old man when he played his first SC2 game. In Brood war he was a solid 2v2 player, which isn’t quite as sad as it sounds in SC2 but still was a far cry from a success story. SC2 was his ticket to greatness, while the first ever GSL escaped him giving us the chance the hear Artosis advancing the idea of FruitDealer being the first SC2 Bonjwa (spoiler he wasn’t). He went 13-0 in the second ever GSL before triumphing over young star MKP 4-3 in the final and became the first truly great Starcraft player. He would also be one of the founding fathers of IM along side notable players Losira and Mvp and would lead them to the first GSTL win playing only a single map in the entire tournament as the last player to come out in a 3-3 lock grand final. Nestea would go on to win 2 more GSL, including the only perfect run in the history of the tournament, be the first to qualify for 10 consecutive code S, and reach the final of a Blizzcon.

Maybe it was his time as back bencher and KT coach in BW that helped NesTea be able to figure this new game faster and better then anyone else. He understood how zerg was meant to play right of the bat and use the new macro mechanics and easier commands of SC2 to pioneer zerg reactive macro play. While FruitDealer success was build on alternating between all ins and full on greed, NesTea understood that map control and a fine balanced between drones and units was what would make and break his race in this new Starcraft and happily exploited everyone else lack of understanding of the game to rule as the best Zerg in the world for almost 2 years until guys like DRG and Leenock caught up to him.

Polt was an odd choice to somehow become nickname “Captain America”. Coming from WC3 he spends his first years in the GOMTvT where is first contact with the western scene would be a defeat in the hand of Jinro in GSL 3. His triomph in the Super Tournament crowned by a crushing victory against MMA in the final included an elimination of fan favorite HuK. The first time he went to America for MLG he eliminated 5 straight foreigners in the championship bracket only to fall to the first Korean he faced, he then went on to win Asus Rog versus foreign hope Stephano. When he went on to face ThorZaIN the final of Dreamhack Stockolm he was very much the Korean enemy for the hometown hero to defeat and the only flag we could have fathom him wave was that (sick) Prime flag.

When Polt decided to migrate to America, he was considered a very solid code S player with a Korean championship under his belt, but was somewhat hidden by the shear masses of top Terrans in the region. Yet again he seemed like the perfect representation of Koreans who flew away from competition only to make a living bulling foreigner. Polt would be on the forefront of the Koreans dreamcrushing army; he straight up tilted the best US player IdrA into retirement in WCS season 1, something he would do again to the best foreign toss NaNiwa not even a year latter.

Polt dominated his first year in America, winning 3 straight tournaments (MLG, WCS NA 2-3) eliminating NaNiwa at MLG and destroying fan favorite JD in the final of WCS season 2. It’s pretty much at this point that the US fan made their choice, if you can beat him, join him. Polt knowledge of the english language, his decision of living in America and his confident, borderline cocky, attitude were deemed enough for him to become the US champion in a tournament scene full with Koreans.

He would go on to reach six more WCS semi-finals with two more trophy and become the most dominant WCS circuit in HOTS and early LOTV. Still with the exception of his IEM Cologne run, Polt had little success outside of WCS, contrary to fellow expatriate like HyuN, MMA or TaeJa, he was never able to really make a strong impression in global or Korean events.

In a world where US starcraft had to adopt Koreans to lure themselves into thinking they had success in this game Neeb came as a saving grace. The fire truck amateur passed his first years as a young terran up and comer of the NA scene, which in non bullshit term meant someone who occasionally got pass the first group stage of a WCS only to lose when he had to face half decent Koreans.

Like Classic before him, his switch to protoss as well as a new expansion help him get his career going. He would reach 4 top 4 in the new WCS circuit composed of only a couple of Korean two of them, Polt and Hydra, would stop him late in tournament. Neeb seemed to have beneficiate just as much of the WCS changes as Polt before him, and while he was the first real good US player in forever it was hard not to link it to the expulsion of Koreans.

Then, just as Polt retired, came Kespa Cup. In the Korean capital is where Neeb would truly become the new Captain America, his masterful control over the pvp match up with the yet unknown stalker disruptor meta carried him to what was a rather easy victory. For the first time ever in the game a non-Korean had won a Korean tournament, and an American on top of that. From the laughing stock to the top of the world, Neeb proved there was more to NA Starcraft then meme builds, rage and perennial “up and comer”. (Although let’s be honest he never loss his good old NA mass adepts)

Neeb would go on to have a (very shortly) historic dominance of the WCS circuit winning 3 out of 4 events, but he would be unable to make deep run in global tournament in 2018, a trend strangely similar to Polt before him. A fast look at the standing board would lead someone to believe Serral overtook Neeb in 2018, but Neeb in fact never faced Serral in WCS, instead losing to other top foreigners. Despite this disappointing year in WCS Neeb would find success elsewhere, getting one map away from a GSL final and winning the Hangzhou Carnival against Koreans as well as having solid run in IEM and WESG.

For most of us Starcraft is a struggle, an impossible mountain to climb happy to throw rocks at you whenever you start to get higher, TaeJa is the exception. He’s the prince of Starcraft, someone for whom being good at Starcraft didn’t seems like a struggle or even an accomplishment, he was the one at the top of the mountain watching others climb not in anguish but with calm assurance that at the end of the day he would always have his place at the top.

Winning everything was the way of the word, and boy did he win, in any meta, against anyone. He stayed at the top of the mountain pushing people over, sometime with absurd ease. As royalty, he never seemed to feel the need to stoop to entertainment; he spent half a decade in the West never saying a word of English, never learning to open a bottle of champagne or give a half decent interview, he didn’t need those to win the heart of the crowds; just a wave, a smile and an otherworldly ability to win at Starcraft. He did lose once a while, but it never felt like a crushing or embarrassing defeat, just a top tiers series not going his way, deserving of nothing more than his little head-shake as he immediately went back to winning.

It would be clearly wrong to say that DongRaeGu wasn’t also a rare Starcraft talent, but it never felt quite as easy for DRG, you could see the struggle. Like TaeJa his first win came outside of Korea, but contrary to the Liquid Prince he wasn’t happy ruling these far away land. He wanted to keep climbing and so he went back home to rule not as a prince but as the King. It’s something TaeJa never did, even the most die-hard GSL elitists couldn’t deny that TaeJa had the skills to win a GSL, but at the apex of his career, he chose to turn his back to Korea and to a potential GSL crown and droped his chances at Blizzcon to finally be address as the clear world best.

DongRaeGu made that choice, he went back to his beloved neighbourhood and was immediately rewarded by one of the hardest lost anyone ever had. Against MMA at the Blizzard cup final he mounted perhaps the best comeback in all SC2 in only to see victory slip through his fingers in the last seconds of the final game. He wouldn’t stop climbing, and after his GSL win and subsequent domination, he did become the undisputed best zerg in the word, embracing his role as the game front most star. It wasn’t only his unparalleled ability at long macro game that put him at the top, but also his capacity to rotate between his builds and unbreakable spirit. But his wasn’t the calm domination of TaeJa, the struggle never seemed to stop for DRG, and multiple final defeats piled on, as is the Korean zerg destiny, and as HOTS came around, he had lost his throne.The last few years undoubtedly have been hard for the Dongraegu native, but even military service couldn’t keep him from trying to reach once again that oh so sweet place at the top of the highest mountain.

You all remember it, maybe you had a little time of before starting your day, maybe you decided to watch a last few games at the end of a late evening, maybe it was a slow day at work, you opened TL and saw that there’s an OlimoLeague, a Leifeng Cup, an OSC Master cup or whatever Korean online cup going on. You may not care about the actual tournament, but as you tune in you know you are in for a great series as before you is a duel between the two gods of online Korean Starcraft: GuMiho vs Solar.

With a little over 200 maps between each other, these two have one of the most prolific rivalry in Korean Starcraft 2. GuMiho 29 weekly finals and 13 monthly finals make him the most successful Olimoleague players, only missing a single weekly wins to be at the top of all the statistical standing (something Solar himself was all to happy to denied just last week), Solar himself has win his fare share of Olimoleague in his ever growing list of now almost 200 online tournament wins.Outside of their online rivalry Solar and GuMiho are two of the most likeable players in the scene. Defined by extreme consistency, they both have been in code S every time for at least 4 years, Solar being in every code S since he first qualified back in 2014 season 1. They also both had good times making soO life miserable at some point.

The comparisons stops there. It’s easy to forget but Solar is the 3rd most decorated Zerg players, winning more tournament than NesTea, DRG, Dark or Stephano. The Happy Roach has been perhaps un-rightly forgotten by history, as his lack of success in GSL or major global tournament sometime overshadow runs just as impressive in others less well recognize tournaments. The first LOTV champ and arguably the SSL greatest, he’s the only zerg to win a Korean league in LOTV and only the 3rd since HOTS launch in 2013.

GuMiho has been mainly known for his dedication to play Starcraft his own way, innovating the terran meta multiple times and finding solutions instead of whining, but he never was quite shower with the same praise as other top terran players. Yet he has one of the most long-lasting careers of the scene. In 2012 as one of the best GSTL players he carried FXO to back-to-back championship with an 8-0 record in the finals including one of the best TvT ever played vs MMA and an upset of soon-to-be GSL champ Sniper. As an outsider in 2015 he scored a perfect 15-0 in Tours before dropping the last 3 maps of the final vs PartinG, and just a few weeks ago he defied all balance whine to reach the finals of a Super Tournament stack with protoss. But it’s his GSL championship that remain the sole jewel of his career, as his dedication to playing the game his own way finally put him ahead of the pack as his mech play rolled over soO mid 2017.

7 years ago, a storm started to brew in the far land of what is barely still Europe, as Serral was poised to make his entry into the Starcraft world. First came the rounds of 64 at his first four Dreamhack, then the rounds of 32, 5 in a row in 2014, then 3 rounds of 16 as the next year come to pass. By the time Serral hit his first premier round of 8 in Leipzig and started to show results in others smaller tournament in 2016 rumours of the storm started to go around. 2017 confirmed those rumors, his 4 rounds of 8 in premiers confirmed his slow but inexorable rise in results, but it was when he pushed Neeb to the brink of defeat in the grand final of WCS Jönköping that the world at large finally took notice of the ever-closing storm.

The foreign world was at first glad at the perspective of another talent joining their fray in their fight for recognition against Koreans, fool enough to think that simply blowing in the sense of the wind made them part of the storm. When it finally hit their shore in the start of 2018, they finally saw it for what it was, a hurricane that was gonna engorge them all. At first it seemed like the Koreans tranches would hold on, as he was hold by Classic and Maru, but after soO put on the last defence at Nation Wars, they too were swept away by the storm.

What follow is history, from WCS Austin Challenger in mid-may 2018 to IEM Katowice in February 2019 Serral would win every single offline tournament he signed up, win all his offline series, have a 98,75% win rate in overall series (damn Neeb), become the second foreigner to win a triple crown, complete the WCS grand slam, and most of all cleave through the Blizzcon bracket to become world champion. As he stood triumphant in Anaheim, it seems like Serral was finally ready to rest, the teary-eyed man overlooking his trophy contrasted with the unrelenting storm that had rework the SC2 landscape. The start of 2019 was pointed as many as the start of a new dawn, the last man to deny Serral a championship in soO would do it again in Katowice followed up by defeat in the final of WESG and WCS Winter. When there was nowhere up to go, it seemed like Serral has become mortal once again, but the winds have start howling again and the coming months may prove us that we are just in the eye of the storm.

Classic was very much off the radar at the start of the Kespa switch, the STX Terran had some traction in his last BW years, but his SC2 start while not straight up abysmal was still pretty bad; he didn’t qualify for anything and ended up being bench by his team in Proleague after he became the first Korean in almost a decade to lose to a foreigner. He looked destined to fade away in the switch like hyvaa or Flying.

His decision to switch to protoss completely revitalize his play, he became a solid player in STX roaster, but stayed in the shadow of INnoVation and Dear and even when he conquered GSL code S on his second try (lien) the focus was pretty much evenly split between the soO tragedy and balance complain about a 2014 full of protoss champions. His subsequent elimination in the round of 32 made fans think he would follow in the path of Seed, a stigma that even a semi-final at Blizzcon couldn’t erased. It took an SSL and IEM victory and a slew of strong proleague appearances for us to finally accept that he was truly part of the world elite.

Strangely it’s when he finally got recognition that he entered somewhat of a drought. He would spend the next 3 years without winning a single championship. He was far from being outclass, playing in 8 semi-finals of premier tournaments and never making anyone doubt he had what it takes to win every single one of them, but something what missing. It wasn’t his play, always rightly balanced between cheesy and macro back by a calm but decisive execution and a very good ability read the game, but he just never seemed able to take that final step anymore, to come down with a series when he needed it the most. As Classic first announced his incoming retirement due to his military services, it seemed he would retire as “one of” the great protoss of his time. Fast forward a few months he has been in the final of 3 of his last 4 tournament, winning 2 super tournaments. With his Blizzcon ticket all but punch and all the momentum in the world going into this GSL, Classic run against the clock to fulfil all his career dreams before the military come for him, seems to have push him to even bigger heights.

The next few months are gonna be decisive for Serral and Classic legacy, as both seems ready to dominate the rest of the years, but even without that they already have made a great case for Starcraft greatness.

Folk tales are full of monsters, great beast with claws the size of a minibus, creatures made from combination of others animals can could only have been thought by a mad god, sprites and fairies happy to lure you into the dark. Since the oldest days of Starcraft one of those monsters roamed around, don’t let his chubby smile and his silly dances fools you, as soon as you set foot in the murky Starcraft waters you’ll see him stretch his tentacles all around you and before you know what is happening the ]Leenoctopus will have eaten you whole.

Leenock was great since the very start of the game but his rise to Starcraft fame came as he denied Mvphis 3rd straight GSL final, only to fall to jjakji. Leenock may have failed to win one of the most one-sided final on paper, but he wouldn’t miss his chance to hunt SC2 heroes as his lower bracket run at MLG Providence was an “who’s who” of Starcraft superstars beating BoxeR-MMA-IdrA-Mvp-HuK-DRG and NaNiwa. Leenock would go on to win 3 other premier tournaments as well as reach another final of a stack MLG, but it is still his first win in Providence that is the most remembered and in some way is the best incarnation of his career. Shortly after his MLG win he would be overshadowed by fellow zerg DongRaeGu, and his second string of victory at the end of 2012 is remembered more as the time a young idiot name Life came to his own.

Leenock was in his element in the background, but as he little by little was forgotten by all except some ancient story teller he never went anywhere. Leenock was in code S every single year except 2015, when he was top 8 at SSL, and all this time the Leenoctopus would be all to happy to lure in foolhardy travellers too prone to dismiss the ancient tales. (1-2-3)

Just as the Leenoctopus went back to lurking in the shadow a new kind of monsters appear, not one made of flesh and claws of but a modern monster, a machine coming out of the corporatist factory of Kespa, someone who isn’t phase by the flowers of victory but is all to happy to laugh as he’s crushing a man lifelong dream. INnoVation didn’t get to hide, he was always in the blinding neon lights of the Starcraft biggest stages, from the second he stepped in the scene to this day no one could ignore him. Everyone knew the game has entered a new era, gone was the amateurish fun of the MLG, the 200 tl pages of silly drama, the exuberant celebrations, the time for games was over.Less than 4 months after his SC2 debut, he reached his first Code S final and although Soulkey, with his back against the wall, managed to found the flaw in INnoVation practice, he would just comeback stronger and faster winning the season finals just after. The new Korean machine would quickly conquer the Starcraft world.

Against most INnoVation macro was enough to crush his opponent, they could do whatever trick they wanted, there was nothing stopping someone who was not merely stronger, cleverer or quicker, but just “more”.The world elite would catch on quickly to INnoVation and he had plenty of epic duel at the top of Starcraft (and quite a few embarrassing one if we are honest), but it’s all the other one; the aspiring amateurs, the hopeful foreigners and the hard-working veterans that would be forever left in the dust.

In the next years INnoVation would go on to win 4 Koreans leagues, 2 IEM, a GSL vs The World and a lot more, as well as be one of the most dominant team league players ever. And while the world championship tittle still eludes him, he’s on everyone lips when we start to talk about the greatest to ever touch a keyboard.

When Leenock came up to the scene, there was still that dream that if you work at it hard enough you too could go on a rampage in a lower bracket of an MLG and beat the world greatest stars. It was a silly idea, but it was still there. In this new world of Innovation all of that is gone, it’s painfully obvious that we’ll never be able to do what those new monsters do, he took Starcraft and dragged it away from us. Nevertheless, Leenock is still there, lurking around and taking down those who think they are above this ancient monster of the game, and when the GSL light closes down for good he might very will still be there waiting for his moment to snatch one more victim.

I came to SC2 quite late in his life, and the first ever live offline tournament I watched was IEM Cologne. Looking back a part of me is quite disappointed that I didn’t have the knowledge to fully appreciate what turn out to be a timeless classic; Patience and jjakji teaming up to take down what was left of Dear reputation, Polt running circle like a madman around Rain and Classic to beat two of the best in the world at what was then considered an impossible match up, but most of all Liquid HerO overcoming a gauntlet of the world best to conquer the last IEM trophy of the season. His path to victory included a dismantlement of INnoVation and an answer to Polt magic, but the highlight of it was his mesmerizing comeback in game 5 of the semi-final after going down bellow 60 supply against Jaedong he pulled everything, even his probes, and manage to snatch it under the nose of the Tyran.

After such a clutch win with thousand of euro on the line, one would expect to see someone pop off, jump of his chair or wink at the camera, but what we got was a man head in his hand, who for lack of better word: seemed so f*cking done with this shit.

HerO was a peculiar but inspirational character in the Starcraft 2 world, nerves problems have plagued many a player, but perhaps no one showed it more than HerO. The Liquid player regularly looked like he was about to explode on stage, but as soon as it switches to the game screen nothing of that showed. Time and again HerO was one of the much clutch players of all time, someone who could juggle an immortal for days way before Blizz decided they had to do it for us because it was too hard, execute a cheese with perfection in high pressure situation, and pull of great defence with his life on the line. The level of nerves HerO felt when he was on stage would have broken a lot of players, but HerO refusal to gave in when he probably wanted to be anywhere else but in front of all theses cameras made him one of the most successful SC2 player. While he never manage to win that all to sweet Korean tournament, he was a force to be reckon with in foreign tournament being the only player to win 2 Dreamhack Winter and on top of his big trophy collection being a solid team player on TL along side his friend and second half of the worst rivalry of all time TaeJa.

Many, many, many words have been written about soO story, lots more insightful then these one, yet as all the others I can’t but remiss on his harsh but ultimately fulfilling journey. When he was first victorious at the MLG vs Proleague invitational beating TY-Flash-Soulkey and Oz, the world knew that the young man who would go on to eliminate Mvp from code A a few weeks later was someone to keep an eye on in the coming years. A quick entry into code S in HOTS and a GSL final run in late 2013 confirmed that we were right to have high hope for soO, but he wasn’t a fan favourite or anything, mostly brushed aside as another top faceless Korean that couldn’t stop the future Bonjwa that was Dear, his play while very good wasn’t particularly peculiar or exciting. As the coming months started to pass tho two things became extremely clear, soO was a winner unlike anyone we ever saw in the game able to pull out a win in any situation by what seemed like pure resolve, and secondly soO was completely unable to win a final.

In his 4 GSL final run, his complete collapse against Solar in Stockolm days before his semi-final saw him fly all the way back to Korea and fight with the energy of desperation 3 maps down against Zest to win by the skin of his teeth, but as everything was said and done we could all remember Tastless words “SoO has lost Again”.

soO 4th GSL lost in row seemed more then enough to broke anyone spirit, and many thought he would never be the same, both in his winning and losing side. His Kespa Cup victory and IEM final defeat a year later seemed like both a small reward and a small pain compared to what had come before, as it seemed like he would remain a very good but not amazing zerg player. As 2017 rolled around soO showed us that he himself had never given up and he mounted once again a back to back GSL final run including comeback against both TYand Rogue, but as each final came less and less people were ready to give him a chance, soO was trapped in a cycle of eternal defeat.

But soO pull himself together and went on one last desperate and enraged attempt at Blizzcon, he would finally overcome GuMiho mech play in a razor edge quarter and was put once again at harm length of victory. It would have been the fairy tale, after all he had go through what better ending than soO finally winning on the biggest stage of them all, but there was no fairy tale yet for soO as he fell one more step into despair. With his Blizzcon defeat everyone accepted soO faith, his first GSL of 2018, where he seemed to be all to happy to let Stats steal the semi-final series if it mean avoiding another final, was followed by a disappointing year the world came to the conclusion that soO was finally done, it took an incredible time but the silver surfer was broken in the end.

No one was thinking about soO at the start of IEM Katowice, and him limping out of the group stage with a negative game score predicted another early exit. It was forgetting who soO was, as he overcame the world champion in his best match up, we were suddenly remember of that was, someone whom will power alone could carry him to victory against the worst of odds and hope started to return. Nevertheless, when Stats smacked him on Cyber Forest giving himself the 2-0 lead, we cursed soO for making us lived through this one more time, but something snap. This time wouldn’t be the same, when he was down and out, he was finally able to pull out his winning magic in the final, and it’s fair to say that in all the years of Starcraft no victory was ever as sweet as this one.

HerO and soO stories both go to show that it takes a lot more then simple clicks and button press to make a great Starcraft player, and while their career took way different path they both manage to overcome their demons on the way to greatness.

Now I told you a moment ago that my first ever live SC2 tournament was IEM Cologne, so can you guess what my second live tournament was? Well actually it was the group stage of WCS NA but we don’t talk about this kind of thing here, but my 3rd tournament! It was none other than the infamous IEM Katowice 2014, contrary to his little brother in Cologne this one was experience best at a time I was barely understanding what was going on but was enthrall by a huge crowd of rabid fans. When I saw NaNiwa pack his thing up after game one I could enjoy plenty that raging man and all the drama without the knowledge that I was watching one of the West best walk away under the boo of the crowd, when Revival flew 30 muta into a pack of mine I could marvel at the unpredictability and unforgiveness of this game, I could still buy that giving all the 100k prize pool to the winner was a good idea, but even me, who had yet to play a single SC2 game, couldn’t watch stalkers dancing in the main of what was once a smiling, cartwheeling, man and not realize I had just watch one of the most vicious beat down to ever took place in this game.

There is much to bet that if herOdidn’t fall for sOs tricks his whole career would be remember a lot differently, it’s strange that one of the most successful players ever is mostly thought on as the victim of the type of defeat he handed to so many across the years.

herOcame to the forefront of the scene with a dominance in the IEM circuit in 2013-14, his impressive pvt as well as the many battles and eventual dismantlement of the infamous Snute swarmhost style using an agressive double warp prison response build his reputation as one of the most dangerous protoss around as he reach 4 IEM finals in a row, winning 3. He was foiled for a while in Korea losing in the final of a KC and the semi of GSL but would then win back to back trophy with another KC and an SSL late 2015. During all that time he was the ace of CJ in Proleague, it’s a job that can be a nightmare task (just ask Solar and Creator) but being the face and soul of CJ Entus was a role herO cherish as he was all to happy to be the one that made, almost by his lonesome, his team an actual contender for the playoff, playing day in day out from the first to the last day of ProLeague, being both the most use and the player with the most win in the league history.

As Lotv came around it seemed like the game was perfect for him, he won the first GSL Preseason and look poised to continue on his success but while the last few years have been pretty good including 3 top 4 at ST with a trophy and a couple of good GSL results he has yet to get that big GSL or international trophy that escaped him all these years ago in Poland.

Like herO, Dark was always one to thrive in front of the crowd, he famously announces to the world that he would go on to win 10 premier championships back in 2016. The claim seemed outrageous at first for someone who had just arrived at the top of the scene but as we were starting to realise Dark isn’t afraid to talk big and his word have frequently bite him in the backside. In a world of polite and humble Starcraft players Dark stand out has one who would be all to happy to vote for himself in this tournament.

Nevertheless, his 10 tournaments claim really wasn’t one of his grandiloquent declaration, in the last 4 years Dark as reach 18 top 4 in premier tournaments, he’s by far the most consistent LOTV playe if not all of Starcraft and a constant hurdle in everyone path. Dark was perfectly right on his potential when he said he would become the most decorated player in history, like he was tight every time he felt confident trash talking an opponent.

We have seen Dark destroy the best in the world since 2015 (some of the most memorable: zvz master Life, best tvz in the world 2015 Dream,great foreign hope Neeb- Runner up of IEM Katowice Classic and we have watch him beat every foreigner for 5 years straight, but so many time the coin fall on the wrong side for Dark. He has lost 10 final or semi-final by a single map, and been mostly used to give the champion an incredible series at the end of his road. No one could give ByuN, Stats or Maru such a hard run for there money and even if he got the short end of the stick almost every time, Dark role as guard captain of the trophy room, while not the one he wanted, is one he accomplished with every bit much of skills as those who inevitably broke in the vault.

TaeJa: 3 Dreamhack, 3 HSC, 2 AsusRog and about half a dozens more win as well as a Blizzcon semifinal, TeamLiquid Ace player aka the Summer Prince.Nerchio: 2 Dreamhack, 1 HSC, king of the polish and perennial top European player as well as master shit poster.

Soulkey: 1 GSL, 1 WCG, a great proleague player for Woongjin Stars and one of the very few people to reverse sweep a final, did a successful return to BW. GuMiho: 1 GSL, the Towel Terran was the ace for both FXO GSTL wins scoring the three last kills vs MVP and an All kill vs Slayers, a player with an amazing consistency across SC2 history, known for his very original and off beat build and composition.

Match 5 : Serral vs SanSerral: 4 WCS, 1 GSLvsTW, 1 Blizzcon, 1 HSC, Reigning world champion, first foreigner to be widely consider the best player in the world and holder of the longest streak of series victory.San: 1 AsusRog and 3 premier second place including WCS EU, one of the innovator of the protoss race, known for his elite pvz and his infamous "sangate" build that earn him a 72% pvz win rate in HOTS.

Match 6: Classic vs FlashClassic: 1GSL, 1IEM, 1SSL, 1 ST(maybe two when you read this?) as well as two back to back Blizzcon Semi-final, an IEM Katowice finals and a very solid proleague career, a protoss players comfortable with almost every style of play who demonstrate remarkable consistency.Flash: 1IEM, the greatest BW has ever seen, had amazing success in proleague, balanced by shaky individual performance, one of the best mech player in Korea for a long time.

Match 7:INnoVation vs DearINnoVation: 3GSL, 2 IEM, 1SSL, 1GSLvsTW, 1 WESG and a lot more major tournament wins, the only player with a premier tournament win in 5 consecutive years, winner of 5 separate teamleague (and 9 time teamleague champion) known for his excellent macro and deadly timing push. Dear: 1 GSL, 1 WCS season, the only player with the same Teamliquid articles for 5 consecutive years (he was really good in 2013 guys), he also had multiple GSL semi-final and won one of the best game ever vs Maru in 2013.

Match 8:Leenock vs jjakjiLeenock: 2 MLG, 1 IGN Proleague, 1 Dreamhack, lost a GSL vs none other than jjakji, one of the best korean zerg at foreign event, great macro player that is still able to keep up with the world elite to this day.jjakji:1 GSL, one of the pillar of the Artosis curse, came out of nowhere to win a GSL in only his second code S appearances but failed to replicate that kind of momentum despite all around solid results in the next years.

Match 9 :Liquid HerO vs FruitDealerHerO: 2 Dreamhack winter, 1 NASL, 1 WCS AM, 1 IEM the second half of TeamLiquid Korean duo, a ace protoss player that shined with his excellent micro, although battling with some nerve problem throughout his career he had elite results from 2011 up to 2014.FruitDealer: 1 GSL, champion of the very first GSL tournament back in 2010 that he won with handily with a 15-2 overall map score, figuring out the game faster than anyone, he failed to stay on top but stayed a good code S player until the second half of 2011.

Match 10:soO vs ThorZaINsoO: 1 Kespa cup, 1 IEM Katowice, second place: all of them, not a kong anymore (savour that one), 6 time GSL finalist including 4 times in a row, one of the most resourceful and decisive zerg around and as well as an amazing zvz player. He also was one the fastest Kespa player to transition winning the MLG vs Proleague invitational in 2012.ThorZaIN: 1 TSL, 1 Dreamhack, came out of nowhere to win TSL 3 over fellow countrymen Naniwa, nickname the Spoon Terran for his very methodical and slow macro play, he his the only Swede to win a Dreamhack in SC2 wich he did in front of his crowd in Stockholm.

Match 11:Former CJ herO vs ScarlettherO: 3 IEM, 1 Kespa Cup, 1 GSL, 1 ST, the smiling assassin came to the forefront of the scene with stellar IEM performance, master of all in and timing as well as macro play with heavy harass and multitask, ace of the CJ Entus proleague time for almost all their seasons, the only shadow on his resume is his lack of results in GSL, well that and the shadow in the corner of his main where 2 gateway are. Scarlett: 1 IEM, Northcon and HSC finalist, and 2 time ATC winner, the women with more fans than perhaps anyone in the scene as her games almost never disappoint to be entertaining, she has stayed one of the best foreign player for almost half a decade.

Match 12:Dark vs StarDustDark: 1 SSL, 1 WCS Cross Final, one time Blizzcon and 2 time Kespa cup finalist and a few more, he also have 10 semi-final finish in premier tournaments. Second in line in the great zerg Kong dynasty, he always bring the trash talk in interview as well as in the game as he has been a top 3 zerg in Korea since the start of LOTV.StarDust: 1 WCS EU, 1 Dreamhack, 1 fragbite Master, the face of MYinsanity, his easy-going approach to Starcraft earn him a lot of results, as well as probably a few words on ladder.

Match 13 :Bomber vs GeniusBomber: 1 WCS season, 1 WCS America, 2 Redbull battle ground, 1 MLG, 1 code A, one of the great macro Terran of Korea, after solid results in Korea he decided to go play in America and was one of the terror of the foreign scene. He took part in a series of legendary battles vs Scarlett.

Genius Blizzcon 2010 champion, 1 GSL final, he was one of the first Korean to establish their dominance in SC2 with his Blizzcon win then stayed a very solid Code S player for all WOL, playing in 9 of the 10 first code S, during his GSL final run he lost only a single map to anyone not name DRG (whom he face 3 time during the same GSL), including 3-0 over MC and aLive in the playoff.

Match 14:NesTea vs SymbolNesTea: 3 GSL, 1 Blizzcon final, builder of a lot of baneling, he's the only player to ever make a perfect GSL run and was the most dominant GSL player in his first year winning 3 of the first 7 GSL season, and the first Korean SC2 true star. As one of the oldest SC2 player to find success, he was known for his very smart and innovative plays. He stuck around years after his dominance, continuing to make run in WCS America until 2014.

Symbol: 1 GSL final, 1 MLG final, 1HSC final and 1 Iron Squid final, perhaps the grand-dad of korean zerg kong in SC2, while a true master of Broodlord-Infestor, he stayed a strong player in HOTS, but failed to make the same impact as in 2012. He's also the first person to perform a reverse all-kill in GSTL.

Match 15:Polt vs RevivalPolt: 4 WCS championship, 1GSL ST, 1 MLG and more, the only player to win premier player in 6 consecutive years, a player at his best in frantic and scrappy game very happy to open the game with bio harassment creating generally great game, nickname Captain America after his move to the US. He was frequently over performing expectation in global event against other Koreans.

Revival: 1 IEM, 1 WCS America final, despite never making it into code S in Korea he had good success in the WCS system, once saw a piano fall on ByuL head.

Match 16Neeb vs NaNiwaNeeb: 3 WCS, 1 Kespa Cup, 1 WCS winter, 1 GSL semi-final, the first non-korean to win a Starcraft event in Korea since 2000 on the back of the best PvP in the world, won 3 out of the 4 WCS stop in 2017, got screw of all his record by Serral, the best NA players almost none stop since LOTV.

NaNiwa: 2 MLG, 1TSL final, 1Dreamhack final and 1 MLG final, a "controversial" (gently put) figure in the scene, his very strong play can't be forgotten. He was one of the only foreigner able to keep up with korean before LOTV and he's the only non-korean to make it into blizzcon on even ground with Koreans.

Match 17 :MMA vs SpeCial (aka Major, Windy, Princess, Kitty…)MMA: 1 GSL, 1 Blizzard Cup, 2 WCS EU, the man of eternal class, he was a top player for years never to be outdone for long even after his move to the WCS circuit. He is also one of the only players to retire on top after his victory in an epic 7 map joust against Parting at HSC.

SpeCial: 1 Blizzcon semi final, 4 WCS semi final and about 20 Copa America wins, once an aspiring BW player he was one of the first SC2 players to create strong ties with the Korean scene, even getting to play for Team 8 (now JinAir) in Proleague. Despite being one, if not the best terran in the foreign scene, he failed to grab any worthy trophy losing time and again in semi final, but his great build crafting skills and top tiers micro make him a threat for anyone he faces.

Match 18:TY vs SnuteTY: 1 WESG, 1 IEM Katowice, 2 GSL finals, 1 GSLvsTW final, the youngest player to ever get recruited by a Kespa team at just 12, he was held as the future great of BW, but it finally took a decade for TY to finally taste victory. Consider one of the smartest Terran player around he is known for his very intricate build order and timing attack.

Snute: 1 HSC, 1 Copa Intercontinental, 3 WCS final, 1 Gold Series final, the one to lead foreigners during the great Korean invasion of HOTS, he scored multiples victory over top Koreans player during his career. A master at drawn out game, he was the inventor of the swarmhost turtle style. Despite being held as one of the great foreigners he never was able to win a WCS after the region lock, finishing second 3 time.

Match 19:Maru vs PuMaMaru: 4 GSL, 1 SSL, 1 WESG, 1 OSL, 1 IEM final. Both one of the youngest and one of the most experience SC2 player, at just 21 years old he as played since the first ever GSL tournament. Contrary to fellow youngling TY, he took just a few years getting to the top, winning OSL after a stunning 4-0 upset INnoVation in the semi final. He would then linger as a top 3 Terran players for years, consistently delivering in proleague and always impressing fans with stunning micro particularly in tvp, but it’s in 2018 that he would establish his dominance over GSL, winning 4 seasons in row, shattering all the GSL marks. Despite unprecedented domination in GSL, some remark upon his lack of consistent wins in weekender still remained.He’s also half the reason I started this thing.

PuMa: 2 NASL, 1 IEM. Despite somehow never making it into code S or code A, PuMa became one of EG stars, having great success abroad with his innovative 1-1-1 build especially vs Protoss. His career ended perhaps too soon retiring at the end of 2012, only about a year and a half after his first televise match.

Match 20HyuN vs DreamHyuN: 1 Dreamhack, 1 WCS AM, 1 GSL final, 1 MLG final and multiple top 4, a master of the roach style (sometime even to his downfall) HuyN first half of his career was spend in Korea where he almost stop the triumph of evil, his exile in the foreign circuit did bring him a lot of success, he was in the late stage of pretty much every tournament he entered, although contrary to other Korean great who went abroad like Polt, Taeja or MMA he was never quite able to be a consistent threat against the homebased Korean elite. Also, he can rock a pajama.

Dream: 2 SSL final, 1 IEM final, one of the greatest bio-mine players in tvz, his multiple amazing battle vs Life will forever stay as a mirage (or a….Dream) of what 2015 tvz could have been if Terran wouldn’t have gone on the Avilo path. It’s hard to not feel as he never reach his full potential but he still came very close as to win a Korean league.

A quick update first, I'm gonna do 3 uptade this week, one of Monday night, on on Thursday, and one on next Saturday to close the round of 64. Almost all the round of 64 match-up have been ludicrously on sided, so I'm gonna speed run it, since there's only a couple of interesting polls.

Match 21Rain vs CreatorRain: 1 GSL, 1 Kespa Cup, 1 HSC, 1 Starleague, 1 Blizzard cup, 1 OSL final, most ever Ace wins in proleague, with 14 (with an insane 82% winrate as ace). A player bursting into the scene with the Kespa transition, his slow and defensive play revolutionized the way protoss was played and he became one of the most respected and feared Protoss player, achieving stable success in Korea.

Creator: 1 TSL, 1 WCS Korea, 1 World championship final (the one in China), the youngest Starcraft 2 player to ever win a championship, he was held as the next Protoss super star, expectation he never was able to fulfill, breaking the top8 of a tournament after 2012, but his average to downright mediocre results in the last half decade shouldn't overshadow his great highs at the start of his career.

Match 22:Stats vs MarineKingStats: 1 Cross final, 1 GSL, 1 ST, 1 SSL, 2IEM Katowice final, 1 Blizzcon final, 1 SSL and GSL final and a couple other premier finals as well as a good number of top 4. One of the most successful protoss players of all time, the shield of Aiur is in many way the hair of Rain, a master of defensive macro play. Although sometime called a Kong for his high number of second place, it's also a matter of having reach a very high number of finals period, winning or not.

MarineKing: 2MLG, 2 GSL finals, 1 Kespa cup final, 1 GSL WC final, Prime ace player, perhaps the most high profile player to failed to win his group in the round of 128, one of the best Terrans of the start of WOL, he became kind of a Kong in GSL. He innovated micro for Terrans being known for his great marine split and control. He was also very loved in the foreign scene and had a very big fan base.

Match 23:MC vs TrapMC: 2 GSL, 1 HSC, 1 IEM WC, 1 WCS EU, 2 WCS EU finals, 1 GSL final, the Boss Toss was one of the deadliest player of WOL, with 3 GSL finals appearances on the back of decisive timing. Even after his moved to EU never lost his edge, knowing to seize the moment when he saw it. Considered the greatest Protoss by pretty much everyone before the Kespa switch, MC also did maybe more than anyone else behind the scene, building the Korean scene in Europe, helping new players come in and getting their name out there. He also push other Koreans players to show their personality and embrace the "showbiz" aspect of esport (something he himself has always been a master at).

Trap: 1 MLG, 1 Kespa cup final, 1 IEM WC final, 1 GSL semi-final, forever on the bring of greatness he's been the next big thing for pretty much all his career, winning the rookie award in the 2012-13 Proleague. He had some day in the sun, but his Kespa status meant he had less opportunity to play oversea.

Match 24:Rogue vs FirstRogue: 1 Blizzcon, 1IEM Katowice, 1 ST, 1 IEM, 2 Blizzcon semi-final, the JinAir already deadly 3rd man, caught fire at the end of 2017, winning 4 premiers tournaments between July 2017 and March 2018 becoming the second player to joined the IEM and WCS crown and being the first player to truly be considered for the tittle of Bonwja. Rogue is an anomaly in the mist of Koreans zerg, being perfectly comfortable in the late and very late game.

First: 1 IEM, 1 IEM WC final, 1 MLG final, a very good Protoss at the end of WOL, he moved to the WCS circuit but altought placing high never had major victory. He also was part of one of the strangely entertaining end game of all time vs Life (very very very stupid tho) Fun fact: You had forgot he existed

Match 25: PartinG vs ShoWTimEPartinG : 1 World championship, 1 WESG, 1 Dreamhack, 1 HSC, 3 GSL related finals, only player to have the well named Parting award for 10 consecutive round of 16 in GSL code S. One of our only player truly able to bring the trash-talk and back it up, he as always been at his best in front of the camera. A master of soul trains and all ins, he maintained stable results and success in his career, but failed to ever win a tournament in Korea as of yet.

ShoWTimE: 1 WCS, 2 WCS finals, Die Mauer the greatest German protoss came on the forefront on the European scene at the end of HOTS, but it was truly in LOTV that he became widely known as one of the best of the continent, reaching 2 finals in the first year of the expansion including a nail-biting 4-3 win over Nerchio at home in Germany. He was in the end unable to follow foreign super stars Neeb and Serral but still stayed the master of macro Protoss in Europe, and his moment may yet come.

Match 26:ByuN vs LosiraByuN: 1 Blizzcon, 1 GSL, 1 WCA, the man of two life, his first life between 2010 and the end of 2013 saw him reach 2 GSL semi final, but his was his second life after a sudden disappearance that will make him reminded in history. When the first rumor of a ByuN return emerge of China it was mostly meet with meme, then followed an inexorable rise to the top, from the dept of Olimoleague to lifting the trophy in front of the Blizzcon crowd. Known for his exceptional micro, he also had an amazing build knowledge, being a master of a million builds. (999 998 give or take)

Losira: 1 GSL final, 1 MLG final, 1 code A, 20 code S participation. A constant face in the Korean scene, after his top results in 2011, his relatively low chance to play oversea forced him to go over and over into the GSL meat-grinder for years but still manage to find a place for himself.

Match 27:Zest vs ForGGZest: 2 GSL, 1 GSL Global championship, 1 Kespa Cup, 2 HSC, 1 IEM. The Best is as well known for his poster boy good look as for his expert protoss play. One of the most successful Protoss on Korean ground with 4 championship including a GSL royal road, Zest has played both defensive and aggressive masterfully in his career. Not particularly known for his impeccable micro or macro it’s his knack for finding hole in the other players play and jumping on the opportunity that made him an elite player.

ForGG: 1 Dreamhack, 1 Dreamhack final, 3 WCS semi-final, hailed as the first elephant to make the switch to SC2 almost a year before Kespa, he turned out to rather be a mouse in his beginning in Korea. He would have more success after his expatriation to France, and despite winning a single championship his 2 consecutive wins over then-world-champion Life shocked the Starcraft world. He also manages to kill himself with mines in the most wonderful way until Revival came along.

Match 28:HuK vs HarstemHuK: 2 MLG, 1 Dreamhack, the NA Protoss champion carried the flag against the Korean alongside his nemesis IdrA both in America and in GSL, winning 2 premier over Koreans. He also was at the center of the EG-TL rivalry playing on both sides and getting the praises and shitstorm of 2011 Starcraft explosion in popularity.

Harstem: 1 HSC, 1 Gold series, we have been living in his jubilee for half a decade, the captain of the foreign scene Harstem has a took his opportunity winning tournament on his only 2 trips to a semi-final of a premier tournament. One of the most openly emotional players, he became one of the most recognizable and charismatic face in the scene. Also he is officially a greater player than MaNa, Sniper, RorO and BuyL, so good for him.

Alright one last time before we get into the thick of it, maybe some upsets so spice things up?

Match 29: sOs vs TRUEsOs: 2 Blizzcon, 1 IEM WC, 1 Kespa Cup, 1 MSI, 1 PL MVP, most ever Proleague wins, the 100 000 dollars man, a true Starcraft genius able to bring out a different build every maps, he was one of the most clutch player in HOTS including a three world champion crown. At his best was perhaps the most complete Protoss ever playing the cheese as well as the macro game. His LOTV times has been harder including a couples of hard finals lost, but he's still able to bring back his madman magic and bring out the well-crafted snipe build.

TRUE: 1 WCS, 1GSL semi-final, 3 WCS semi-final, 1 Dreamhack final, the masters of lings was a fan favourites for years in Korea playing a very aggressive and fast Zergling-baneling style leading to many great games including an epic vs Fantasy. He stormed the WCS circuit after months in visa limbo, tearing through the Montreal bracket, but it wasn't the usher of a new era of domination as he was unable to reach another WCS finals but still stayed a contender and always stay "true" to his style.

Match 30: Jaedong vs aLiveJaedong: 1 Asus Rog, 1 WESC, 1 Blizzcon final, 4 other premier finals and 8 semi-finals, the first ever player to win an event in both BW and SC2. The Tyrant was under all the spotlight when he came into SC2 and decided to sign with EG carrying his masses of fans. Despite all of his great games and multiples deep runs marked by his muta switch kill move, is sc2 career was put under a cloud of disappointment, ultimately remember more for his falls than his climb, he still was one of the great of early HOTS and one of the only great BW and SC2 player.

aLive: 1 IGN proleague, 1 ST final, 1 GSL semi-final, 1 IEM Katowice semi-final, the invisible man has been around since the 2010 days, making the world remember he exist a few times along the way especially ruining everyone story lines at IGN Las Vegas. Never quite bad, but never quite the best since IGN, his ability to stick around has to be noted.Also he once beat IdrA in a bo7 in about 25 minutes.

Match 31:Mvp vs IdrAMvp: 3 GSL, 1 GSL WC, 1 Blizzcon, 1 MLG, 1 WCG, 1 WCS EU, The King of Wings, crown the GOAT by some other subpar ranking. The terror of GSL, he was always able to clinch victory from the claws of defeat, he seemed unbeatable in 2011 and even a broken back couldn't stop him has he switch his play to mech to continue to gain success despite injury. Even as a shadow of his former self in HOTS he managed to build another winning run in Europe before walking away. It's now time to see if he can defend his title more then 5 years after his departure from the game.

IdrA: 1 MLG, 1 IGN, 1 IEM, the American champion at the start of SC2 and the star of EG, came to sc2 off the back of being one of the most successful foreign BW players. Saying he was controversial would be an understatement while being a top player he never hided his lack of loved for the game and a lot of the time for some of his opponents. His rage and "no fuck given" attitude brought his as much fans as haters, but cemented his placed in the Starcraft mythos.Also I made the most wonderful find: a 2010 MLG Washington first round winner bracket match between....IdrA and avilo Sadly it seems lost to time.

Match 32:Stephano vs PatienceStephano: 1 IGN, 1ESCW, 1 NASL, 1WCS EU, 1 WCS EU final, the cool kid of Europe came to the forefront of the foreign scene in the back half of WOL, he would be the last foreigner in a long time to be able to tango with the best in the world in part with his infamous mass roaches attack. He isn't quite at the top of Europe since a few years but is still able to take games of everyone. He's also clearly the greatest retired player ever.

Patience: 1 HSC, 1WCA final, 1 SSL semi-final, 1 Dreamhack winter 3rd. The worst named player in all of Starcraft, an enigma of Starcraft, he ruined more liquibet than anyone, and at his best his surprisingly effective. If Classic is the incarnation of Protoss, Patience is the incarnation of that stupid no skills Protoss on the ladder who beat you despite being a total scrub and definitely deserved those 4 paragraphs of complains you wrote him after the game.

New groups!We go for 4 at the time from now on.The new WESG in INno take on a group mostly compose of early starcraft great as Curious and Losira try to make a case for being the greatest forgotten Korean zerg in group 4 and 5.And group 20 and 21 are headline with soO and Leenock as the battle between Heart and Showtime in group 21 may prove interesting.

On March 17 2019 11:03 AzAlexZ wrote:I guess Life being a 'criminal' automatically takes him out of discussion right?

Condemned match fixers are excluded yes.

Hmm, I do not agree with this; yours is not even an official prize, it shouldn't have didactic purposes.Life was a legend before being a matchfixer, he won his tournaments out of his skill and matchfixed less relevant games out of his poor judgement; he was rightfully banned as punishment for what he did, assuming he did not even exist takes out a significant part of Sc2 history.

By the way, I like your idea and I'll be voting. Thanks for the initiative!

Why isn't Patience on the list? He's a Premier tournament winner. Also not sure about those wildcards. Surely there are many players better than Hurricane. A Chinese player like MacSed, TooDming or iA maybe? Or Heromarine?

On March 17 2019 13:05 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Why isn't Patience on the list? He's a Premier tournament winner. Also not sure about those wildcards. Surely there are many players better than Hurricane. A Chinese player like MacSed, TooDming or iA maybe? Or Heromarine?

Ah yes I forgot Patience!I notice I was a player short when I did my final list on tlpd, must have been why. I'm gonna had him latter, so Hurricane is out, I wasn't sure about him either, Bunny and Lucifron are discutable too I'm gonna think about it.

I think Life should be included if you want to maintain objectivity, since the basis for excluding him is a personal opinion and has nothing to do with this ability to play the game. People probably won't vote for him as much anyways, because of it.

On March 19 2019 01:28 travis wrote:I think Life should be included if you want to maintain objectivity, since the basis for excluding him is a personal opinion and has nothing to do with this ability to play the game. People probably won't vote for him as much anyways, because of it.

It's fair enough to not have him. If he's banned by Blizzard then it's fine to keep it that way for these types of tournaments too. Instead of calling it a personal decision, let's just call it a Blizzard decision so that the OP doesn't get flamed by people who disagree with him. Also, like you said, his vote count is going to take a hit anyway so it's impossible for us to get an accurate estimate of how good he really was in comparison to the pack.

Honestly outside of personal believe, it's mostly just that I knew I was gonna have to deal with the match fixing stuff (literally the second post lol) and figure out it would still be less of a backlash not to include him than to do so, especially since no match fixer was gonna win this anyway.

I won't be changing my position on Life (and Yoda), but if you want to discuss it between yourself I guess it's your decision.

On another note, this is a way bigger turnout that I had anticipated!Nice to see that people are interested.

On March 19 2019 02:31 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:How would this find the GoaT? Wouldn't it just find the Greatest of 2019 (if even that)?

If you're trying to find the GoaT, you wouldn't run a tournament... you'd look at data and the history of the SC2 players.

On March 19 2019 02:33 Nakajin wrote:Honestly outside of personal believe, it's mostly just that I knew I was gonna have to deal with the match fixing stuff (literally the second post lol) and figure out it would still be less of a backlash not to include him than to do so, especially since no match fixer was gonna win this anyway.

I won't be changing my position on Life (and Yoda), but if you want to discuss it between yourself I guess it's your decision.

On another note, this is a way bigger turnout that I had anticipated!Nice to see that people are interested.

On March 19 2019 02:33 Nakajin wrote:Honestly outside of personal believe, it's mostly just that I knew I was gonna have to deal with the match fixing stuff (literally the second post lol) and figure out it would still be less of a backlash not to include him than to do so, especially since no match fixer was gonna win this anyway.

I won't be changing my position on Life (and Yoda), but if you want to discuss it between yourself I guess it's your decision.

On another note, this is a way bigger turnout that I had anticipated!Nice to see that people are interested.

On March 19 2019 02:31 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:How would this find the GoaT? Wouldn't it just find the Greatest of 2019 (if even that)?

If you're trying to find the GoaT, you wouldn't run a tournament... you'd look at data and the history of the SC2 players.

Read it again, it's not an actual tournament

Good catch, thanks; didn't realize this was just a popularity contest.

It's only a popularity contest if you make it a popularity contest. For instance I'm not a fan of Puma but I voted him over the other guys in the group.

On March 19 2019 02:33 Nakajin wrote:Honestly outside of personal believe, it's mostly just that I knew I was gonna have to deal with the match fixing stuff (literally the second post lol) and figure out it would still be less of a backlash not to include him than to do so, especially since no match fixer was gonna win this anyway.

I won't be changing my position on Life (and Yoda), but if you want to discuss it between yourself I guess it's your decision.

On another note, this is a way bigger turnout that I had anticipated!Nice to see that people are interested.

On March 19 2019 02:31 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:How would this find the GoaT? Wouldn't it just find the Greatest of 2019 (if even that)?

If you're trying to find the GoaT, you wouldn't run a tournament... you'd look at data and the history of the SC2 players.

Read it again, it's not an actual tournament

Good catch, thanks; didn't realize this was just a popularity contest.

It's only a popularity contest if you make it a popularity contest. For instance I'm not a fan of Puma but I voted him over the other guys in the group.

It also doesn't specify what metrics we're using for 'greatest'.

So expect some 100% earnest votes for Has in the future.

I bear this sig to commemorate the loss of the team icon that commemorated Oversky's 2008-2009 Proleague Round 1 performance.

On March 19 2019 02:33 Nakajin wrote:Honestly outside of personal believe, it's mostly just that I knew I was gonna have to deal with the match fixing stuff (literally the second post lol) and figure out it would still be less of a backlash not to include him than to do so, especially since no match fixer was gonna win this anyway.

I won't be changing my position on Life (and Yoda), but if you want to discuss it between yourself I guess it's your decision.

On another note, this is a way bigger turnout that I had anticipated!Nice to see that people are interested.

On March 19 2019 02:31 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:How would this find the GoaT? Wouldn't it just find the Greatest of 2019 (if even that)?

If you're trying to find the GoaT, you wouldn't run a tournament... you'd look at data and the history of the SC2 players.

Read it again, it's not an actual tournament

Good catch, thanks; didn't realize this was just a popularity contest.

It's only a popularity contest if you make it a popularity contest. For instance I'm not a fan of Puma but I voted him over the other guys in the group.

It also doesn't specify what metrics we're using for 'greatest'.

So expect some 100% earnest votes for Has in the future.

From the wiki rule set:"Criteria on what makes a player great and the basis for their choice are entirely up to the voters."