New Nikon teaser hints at 'Noct-Nikkor' lens for mirrorless

Nikon's series of video teasers continues with a look at some classic Nikkor glass and an unmarked lens at the end of the video. Astute readers may notice that the first lens shown is a Noct-Nikkor 58mm F1.2 - one of Nikon's most famous manual focus lenses, made in limited numbers for about 20 years from the 1970s before being discontinued in the late 90s.

Beloved by fans of low-light photography (and, inevitably, collectors), the rare Noct-Nikkor is hard to find, and good copies sell for very high prices on the used market (see earlier point about collectors). Nikon has already hinted that its new mirrorless lens mount is something special - could it support high-performance F1.2 or even faster lenses? We'll find out on August 23rd.

Comments

I wonder how the new Nikon 58mm Noct f0.95 will perform wide open ? Back in the day of film I hired a couple of Canon EOS 50 f1.0 lenses and the spherical aberration was so high as to be unusable. The current Canon f1.2 is superior.The better lens though is the current Leica-M noctilux f0.95. The images have a wonderful 3 dimensional look. I borrowed one with a M10 body from a photojournalist friend. Clearly better than my current Nikon lenses as it should be given the massive price differential.

Adapter for what? Adapter for Sony and Zeiss Loxia and Batis lenses? That would make the new Nikon more exciting for me.

Thinking about it: why does Nikon need yet another new mount? Wouldn't it be much better, if Nikon had adapted the E-mount as standard FF mount? (Sort of like Olympus and Panasonic share same M43 mounts). That might prevent some Nikon users to switch to Sony, and it might even be possible to win back some Nikon users.

He is asking about the one to adapt Nikkor F mount lenses that Nikon announced when they made the initial press release. As a Nikon shooter he probably has a bunch of Nikon lenses and is interested in their adaptability to the new camera. He obviously does not have E-mount lenses.

The advantages of a new mount are many and have been discussed at length. Larger mount makes possible faster lenses, expansion of sensor size if wanted in the future, allows for adaptation of lenses for other mounts, allows for smaller wide angle/normal lenses, modern electronics, etc.

Nikon needed a new start; this is it. I applaud them for their courage and I believe it will payoff in a huge way. But for those who want to use F mount, do not despair. They will have an adapter and it will work very well.

Thus the best of both worlds. A fresh start to something new and bold and better, but backwards compatible with legacy lenses.

We don't know these things. Sony tried same with A-mount to E-mount adapter, didn't work out so well. For several years I adapted Canon and Zeiss Contax lenses to my Sony. Eventually I sold them all. Native simply is better.

Nikonians may very well make similiar experience. Yes, it's a fresh start and a new mount, with maybe two or three lenses. You remember how much Sony was ridiculed for having such limited lens selection? Same may happen here. We jsut don't know at this point.

"Nikon needed a new start; this is it. I applaud them for their courage and I believe it will payoff in a huge way."

Courage? There really wasn't much choice. It was inevitable. *Every* other manufacturer (except Pentax and Sigma) has already introduced a new mirrorless mount and mirrorless system. Every other manufacturer (except Pentax and Sigma) has gone with a "new start" for mirrorless. Pentax and Sigma are obviously oddball manufacturers. Sigma chose to stick to their legacy SA mount for their Quattro mirrorless body, but at least they already have a bunch of mirrorless lenses. Sigma has 13 E-mount lenses (9 FF, 4 APS-C). They just need to make a Sigma Quattro mirrorless body with an E-mount!

Adapters are a temporary solution only. Sony had adapters from day one, yet was ridiculed for lack of lens choices. Same will happen with Nikon. They will have to develop lots of new lenses for Z-mount and get third parties like Sigma and Tamron excited to develop lenses for Z-mount. All that will take years.

Since Nikon is already using Sony sensors, they could as well have used Sony E-mount, making that the de facto standard for FF mirrorless.

Seriously - with better ergonomics, Nikon may win some Sony users back, who could continue to use their Zeiss glass.

Unless the F to Z adapter works spectacularly well, Nikon will either have to produce many new lenses quickly and convince Sigma, Tamron, Zeiss to also create Z-mount lenses, or else the new mirrorless could become a big failure and last attempt by Nikon to get into the MILC game.

Would love to see Nikon and Canon have competitive solutions against Sony. Tony and Chelsea Northup discuss the Mirrorless wars and have a link to another person speaking of this. I like what Tony was saying here. Usually I don't but I think he hit it on this time. We all need Canon and Nikon to step up. Mirrorless needs a boost. MFT is not it. APS-C is nice. But FF is it. Fujifilm has no FF mirrorless either. I would look closely at that one too. Pentax is still born waiting to be killed off at Ricoh.

APS-C is certainly good enough for the overwhelming majority of photographers these days. It is the sweet spot of size, quality, performance, and price. I used to use a Canon 5D, but it was at a time when sensor technology still wasn't very good, so APS-C sensor IQ wasn't nearly as good as it is these days. But these days, APS-C sensors are superb, Yes, FF is definitely better, but it is at a level of "better" that exceeds the *realistic* needs of most photographers who aren't shooting professionally. These days I mainly use APS-C mirrorless (Fuji and Sony), but I plan on eventually getting Sony FF mirrorless. However, it's not so much for the quality but rather for the DOF rendering. I just like the look of a fast 50mm on FF. It gives a perspective and shallow DOF that I like. But aside from that, I'd still be fine with APS-C.

I also use Oly m4/3, and for pictures that I'm not anally pixel-peeping I think it looks great. Format diversity is good.

@Thoughts R Us - I'd love to see Nikon try to survive exclusively on FF cameras (or those with even larger formats). Not everyone is in the market for a $2000-3000 FF mirrorless camera body. Try this thought experiment: just imagine if Nikon stopped selling all of their APS-C DSLRs. What do you think that would do to Nikon's sales, revenue, and market share? Do you think they'd be making more money, or less money? And where do you think all of those APS-C buyers are going to go? They'd all flock to the camera companies that were still selling APS-C DSLRs: Canon, Pentax, and Sony.

Sorry, folks, but APS-C isn't going away. There are still huge numbers of people who want to buy an ILC, but don't want to spend thousands on FF. That's where APS-C comes in.

Here's a glimpse of what mirrorless cameras are selling well on Amazon:

Most photographers have a very limited budget and thus pricing is the mein driving force. Nothing wrong with that at all. Give them a much higher photo gear budget (as a present) and most would buy totally different tools ;-)

Never forget the power of prices - for every tool there is a price resistance at a certain level where people start to buy less and less.

The Nikon MILC s will be most presumably pricy and the rumored ultra fast lenses even more so - my expectation is that they are preparing for a significantly shrinking market compensating the lower number of cameras and lenses with higher average prices.

To large extent yes, but the FF hopefully trickles down to APS-C with better processors and sensors. Nikon especially has to prove quite a bit since Sony for the most part is not helping with Sensors as much as before. Nikon has stepped up.

Canon by year end should show us something. No doubt with declining sales does it show declining margins as well. You may make fewer but if you are selling less, your notion of profit declines as well unless you carefully bundle other items along the way and help the perceived value.

Manufacturers and stores alike are pretty poor with that. More cool theme promotion programs that help promote the system approach. Even supplying the adapters to allow use with their DSLR lenses, though depending on what they have it may not be optimal depending on the focus engine the mirrorless employs, but still you can get creative. It can't be just selling cameras anymore.

NOCT, not “noctilux” And they were showing the original NOCT, not a new version native to the new mount. Nikon will probably launch with two or three native lenses with more to come. Rumored to be 24-70/4 and 50/1.8. They won’t come out of the gate with ten pro lenses on day 1. I’m guessing the two lenses above and an adapter.

Yes, when you look at the size of the M mount, you can ask yourself why the F mount or the E mount should be to small for a 50mm O.95 lense, Oh, there is already the 50mm 0.95 Nocturnus for E-mount, I don't see any review saying it doesn't work ....

Just wondering if anyone had considered whether the Zmount is big enough to adapt Sony E lenses, (or Canon EF even) ? Would be a nice undercut if people who had moved to Sony because they needed mirrorless could keep all their (lets face it, quite juicy) Zeiss etc mirrorless spec lenses and just change back to Nikon bodies, before investing in the new Z mount ones...

Not likely. You can adapt DSLR lenses to mirrorless bodies because of the big difference in flange distance (for example Canon EF has 44mm flange distance, Sony E-mount has 18mm flange distance). That gives you room for the electronics, electronic contacts, etc that are required in smart adapters. Z-mount supposedly has flange distance of 15 or 16mm. That's just not enough room to make a smart adapter with electronics, electronic contacts, etc. I believe the distance between the front of the lens mount and the base of the electronic pins is already at least 3mm for E-mount. So the idea of cramming that into a Nikon mirrorless body that has its own electronic contacts located a certain distance back from the mount is likely impossible. There's just not enough room. It might work if it were just a machined plate, which means no electronic functionality, but that's all you'd be able to do in that limited space.

@FF Pro - Yes, you're missing something. A shorter flange distance is required for lens adapters. That's why you can use Nikon F lenses on Canon EOS bodies. Nikon F has a flange distance of 46.5mm, Canon EOS has a flange distance of 44mm (shorter than Nikon F). That means you can use an adapter/spacer that allows Nikon F lenses to fit on Canon EOS bodies and be positioned exactly at the proper 46.5mm lens register distance. But these adapters are just spacers. You don't get AF capabilities. Today's modern smart adapters allow you to mount DSLR lenses on the much *shorter* flange distances of mirrorless bodies because there's plenty of room for the electronics that a smart adapter requires.

I don't think I missed anything. You restated what I said. If the flange distance on the Nikon is shorter than the Sony E flange distance, a Nikon lens cannot be used on a Sony for that reason alone. It doesn't matter about electronics or anything else.

The OP asked about putting Sony E-mount lenses on a Nikon Z-mount body. Since the Z-mount body (supposedly) has a shorter flange distance, you could technically make an adapter to mount E-mount lenses, but not a smart adapter that would allow electronic communication.

In your first response you stated "If Nikon has a shorter flange distance, that rules out SONY lenses on NIKON" which is not correct. A Sony lens can be used a Z-mount body if you made a very slim adapter-- just not with electronic capabilities. In your second reply, you switched your reply to refer to a NIKON lens on a SONY body.

I have used adapters that fits an Olympus OM lens to a Canon EF camera. That adapter is 2mm thick. No problem with strength. And they are available with a cpu that allows the focusing aid to function. A 2mm thick adapter with electronic connections is possible because the Sony connections are at the bottom of the mount and the Nikon is at the top of the mount. Sony allows access to their info about the communication between camera and lens to other lens manufactures. If Nikon does the same I see no reason why an electronically functional adapter can't be made.

I have not seen anyone say Nikon is going to have a higher market cap than Sony. If we are talking cameras, it would be the other way around, Sony would need to steam roll Nikon. Nikon is ahead. How is the popcorn?

@Geyzer J. Salgado - Is Nikon ahead in mirrorless? No, far from it. Their previous attempt at mirrorless, the Nikon 1 system, crashed and burned. It is now discontinued. Everyone else except for Pentax has established mirrorless systems with established usership. Nikon doesn't even have APS-C mirrorless. They are re-entering the mirrorless market only with FF. Not everyone is in the market for a $2K-3K FF mirrorless body. That automatically limits their appeal, their sales, their impact on the market. Sub-FF is a massive chunk of the market. That's where most of the sales are! APS-C is the most popular format. And even m4/3 is quite popular (Olympus has the highest mirrorless marketshare in Japan). Part of this obviously has to do with cost and consumer budgets. Not everyone can afford to spend $2K-3K on a FF mirrorless camera. I would be very surprised if Nikon's FF mirrorless camera was any cheaper than $2k.

@DarnGoodPhotos - Sure, "next." But when? Sony introduced their APS-C mirrorless in 2010, and released their FF mirrorless in 2013. Canon released their APS-C mirrorless in 2012, and will probably release their FF mirrorless this year (2018). In both cases, going "dual format" took years to do. It was a 3 year gap for Sony, and a 6 year gap for Canon. I think it will at least be a couple years before Nikon gets around to APS-C mirrorless. Maybe even longer since Nikon is a much smaller company than either Sony or Canon. It's a bad situation either way for Nikon. If they don't pour all their resources into FF mirrorless, they risk being killed by Sony and Canon FF mirrorless. But then they miss out on a ton of APS-C mirrorless sales. But if they put resources into APS-C mirrorless, they won't be able to move as quickly at building out their FF mirrorless system. Companies always have limited resources, possibly more so for Nikon than other companies.

It’s probably faster to go FF -> APSC than the other way around because it’s mroe challenging with the larger sensor. Nikon knows the value of having DX in addition to FX so they are probably developing both mirrorless formats in parallel while Sony and Canon developed their FF long after their APSC.

The high price of the manual NOCT is primarily due to its scarcity. It does not mean the new NOCT will sell well. It really comes down to price. I get the feeling that it won't be cheap. Nikon charged $900 for their 32/1.2 that they made for their now-dead Nikon 1 system. https://www.amazon.com/Nikon-NIKKOR-32mm-1-2-Black/dp/B00CRNZL98

I doubt that it will sell too well. Photographers relying on F1.2 lenses had this choice with Canon since many years. Even the mirrorless crowd could use the Canon lenses on Sony FF - with a good adapter these combos are working very well. So mainly a group of loyal Nikon shooters or Sony/Canon haters will be left. If the lens would be faster than F1.2 I expect that its price will become a limiting factor.

@camerosity - How many people really need f/1.2? It's not as if we're still shooting ISO 100-200 film. Today's image sensors delivery an amazing level of quality even at high very high ISO. Are people really going to choose an f/1.2 lens over an f/1.4 lens that costs a lot less? Not many will do that.

@kodachromeguy - We don't "know absolutely" how many photographers need it. But we do know that Canon has had f/1.2 lenses for quite some time now for their EOS system, and it's not as if these lenses are in everyone's camera bag. The Canon EF 50/1.4 is far more widely used than the EF 50/1.2L. Price is obviously a huge factor because the f/1.2 lens is several times more expensive than the f/1.4 lens. So you are paying a *lot* more for a little gain. Therefore, given what we know from past evidence, I think it's a safe guess that "not many will do that."

Price definitely pays a huge factor. I don't think this new f/1.2 FF mirrorless lens will be cheap. Nikon charges $900 for the 32mm f/1.2 lens they made for the Nikon 1 system.

A new mount, and lens, with no specifications, and therefore no actual solid information. Glad you can totally predict the future. Maybe people didn't buy the Canon F1.2 because it was miserable at F1.2, and F1.4 lenses were better and cheaper? The new mount COULD let the lens be much better at F1.2. I mean, F1.4 lenses sell like crazy because they're very good at or near max aperture, and no one is really making F1.2 lenses. If this mount allows for F1.2 lenses, and better optical designs (all the ones you're referencing are extremely old designs) we could see F1.2 lenses that perform well.

Again, no one knows anything about the camera, so we can't say what will happen, who will buy it, or what people want. You can only speak for yourself.

Performs well, sure. But as I said, price is a big factor as to how many will actually buy it. The Canon 50/1.2L is $1300. But as we all know, it's been around for a long time (since in 2001). Canon's 85/1.2L II (introduced in 2006) is $1849. Nikon's 35/1.4G (introduced in 2010) is $1700, but it's only an f/1.4. I'm guessing this new Nikon 58/1.2 will fall somewhere between $1800-2200.

Sure, but again, those prices aren't unheard of for well performing, professional gear. Sigma's 50mm F1.4 is a grand, no one seems to complain about it because it performs great. If the 50/58/85/whatever lenses come out for this mount perform well, but also cost a lot, why would it be worse than what the competition is doing? Being Nikon, you know the pro grade gear is going to be bomb proof, which can't be said for other 3rd party manufactures.

If you can't afford it, that's your problem. If people want it, they'll buy it, and no one ever said this was a cheap hobby. If you really want to complain about price, look at Leica instead.

@SheepStar - I'm all for expensive, niche lenses. I'm just saying that, to start off a system, it might be more practical to start with more accessible, affordable lenses that will get more people into the system more quickly, rather than starting off with esoteric lenses that cost $2K. Nikon can release those lenses, like the $2000 Nikkor 28mm F1.4E ED they released last year. But that lens is entering into a fully mature F-mount system with a huge user base that already has a lot of other more affordable lens options to choose from.

I remember when Canon introduced their EOS M, the prime lens they introduced it with was the EF-M 22mm f/2: a very affordable, very compact, sharp, very accessible lens. It remains a big favorite amongst EOS M users. It's practically a must-have lens for the system, and it's inexpensive enough that anyone can buy it. I have that lens for my EOS M, and it's a great lens. It got a lot of people into the system quickly.

This isn't an entry level camera, this will be a flagship, professional body. People don't buy a D850, A7R3, 5DR etc and put 18-55s on it. You don't know how much the lenses will cost, you don't know what focal length or aperture they will have. If they release pro-grade components, they will cost pro grade money. The adapter is what will let people hit the ground running, so why make a bunch of mediocre lenses for a flagship body, when people can easily adapt them on from what they already own. Anyone forking out the $ for this body, has no problem forking out the $ for the glass. If they didn't want to do both, they would have bought another system already that is on the market. Again, they really don't need to replace their affordable lenses as they already have a good selection of adaptable f mount models. They need to focus on top glass for the top body so the pros can use the full system without the adapter.

@SheepStar - My point is that I wonder if they are casting too narrow a net. Sony is already very established in FF mirrorless, and Canon FF mirrorless is on the way. So I just wonder if they are focused on too small of a niche of users, and what kind of consequences that might have. They ran into that problem with their no-defunct Nikon 1 mirrorless system. And look how that turned out.

And Sony rode Canon's glass coat tails to get into the market, using adapted lenses to offer more choices as it built up it's lens catalogue. Nikon adapting it's own glass will do the same thing, but actually keep all the business in house, as it will be only their glass being adapted right out of the gate (other companies will make adapters, but Nikon AF systems never fully play nice with 3rd party lenses anyway).

The Nikon one system was let down by it's sensors performance, and the massive crop factor for adapted lenses. It wasn't due to the adapter itself, it was the consequences when using it. Those consequences are not at play here.

Canon hasn't released ANY info on a mirrorless body or mount/lenses, so I'm struggling to see how they're legging up over Nikon in regards to a Full Frame Mirrorless camera. Their M line is APS-C, so not compatible with a FF sensor.

@SheepStar - I think you FAR overestimate how many people actually adapted Canon lenses to Sony bodies. It's definitely a minority of people.

Both Sony and Canon have already been through the whole "adapt our DSLR lenses" thing. They both offer adapters for their existing DSLR lenses to be used on their mirrorless bodies. It's certain a nice option to have, but most people don't really go that route. It's really a minority of mirrorless users who do that. Most mirrorless users *definitely* want to use native mirrorless lenses. Like I said, Sony and Canon mirrorless users have already been through this. I use both Sony and Canon mirrorless, so I've been through it myself. For Sony's FF mirrorless system, even though they had an adapter to use all of their existing DSLR lenses, the market still *demanded* that there be native mirrorless lenses-- which is why you constantly heard people complaining about the Sony FF mirrorless system: "Where are the lenses?! The system has no lenses!"

The downside to this is that the adapter ends up being quite bulky. And you get some light loss due to the pellicle mirror. I don't know if this is going to be particularly attractive to Nikon users. It hasn't been for Sony users.

So just like Sony experienced, I suspect that Nikon users will be very vocal about demanding dedicated mirrorless lenses, and not wanting to adapt their F-mount lenses. Most likely you'll have a lot of Nikon users just holding off on buying Nikon's mirrorless body until their are more lenses. Adapting lenses is an option, but many people just don't like adapting lenses and refuse to.

@SheepStar - "Their [Canon's] M line is APS-C, so not compatible with a FF sensor."

It is compatible with FF. The EOS M throat diameter is 47mm. Sony's E-mount throat diameter is 46.1mm. Obviously, Sony's E-mount works perfectly fine with FF, even with IBIS! So Canon's certainly will too. You can bet that when Canon and Sony engineers designed their mirrorless mounts, they made them FF compatible as a contingency for the future possibility of using FF.

Uh huh, and Nikon is going to release 4 lenses with the new body at the same time, according to Nikon rumours. Not 100% fact, but I am willing to bet that is in fact the case when this releases. Being able to shoot without any lenses though is covered, so it's no worse than other manufactures when they released their bodies. I am still not seeing how Nikon is any worse than Canon or Sony in that regard.

"It is compatible with FF. The EOS M throat diameter is 47mm. Sony's E-mount throat diameter is 46.1mm. Obviously, Sony's E-mount works perfectly fine with FF, even with IBIS! So Canon's certainly will too. You can bet that when Canon and Sony engineers designed their mirrorless mounts, they made them FF compatible as a contingency for the future possibility of using FF."

Maybe the mount is, but the glass isn't. That's your whole point, there isn't any glass, so all the EF-M glass, won't work on the mount without cropping it.

"Maybe the mount is, but the glass isn't. That's your whole point, there isn't any glass, so all the EF-M glass, won't work on the mount without cropping it."

Yes, Canon will certainly have to produce new FF mirrorless lenses. But they have the advantage of already having an installed mirrorless users base, existing mirrorless bodies, and existing mirrorless lenses (albeit APS-C lenses). And yes, you'll probably be able to use their existing APS-C EF-M lenses on their FF mirrorless bodies, in crop mode. Sony mirrorless bodies allow you to do that: use E-mount APS-C lenses on FF E-mount bodies, with or without in-camera crop mode. Regardless, those APS-C lenses certainly give users more options. For example, some people use Sony's 10-18mm APS-C lens on Sony's FF bodies, and crop manually in post. It gives you a wide angle image, even without a FF wide angle lens:

@SheepStar - Well, you don't have to worry about that, because Nikon don't have crop mirrorless glass anyways. So it's not even an option for you. But it's certainly a nice option to have for Sony mirrorless user, and possibly for Canon mirrorless users too.

People are obviously not going to buy crop glass specifically to use on a FF body. But it's certainly a valuable option to have if you already have that crop glass. Many of Sony's and Canon's APS-C mirrorless users of today are Sony and Canon FF mirrorless users of tomorrow, just like in the DSLR world. APS-C is oftentimes a feeder pathway to future FF usage. Very few people *start* with FF.

Nikon also has a bunch of crop glass that it can use too... I don't see your point, yet again. You keep forgetting about all of the F mount lenses (which there is more than Eos m and Sony E mount combined).

@SheepStar - You're talking about adapting DSLR glass. Not everyone likes to do that. Not everyone likes to use an adapter. Most mirrorless users want to use native mirrorless glass-- no adapter. You'll see, Nikon users will start complaining about the lack of native mirrorless glass for Nikon. Sony and Canon have already been through this. People want native mirrorless glass. They don't want to have to use an adapter.

My point is that since Sony/Canon already have native mirrorless glass for APS-C that can be used on FF mirrorless bodies (I assume that will be true for Canon), that already gives them more lens options. But more importantly, crop mirrorless allows for a lower point of entry for many users. And once they are in a system, they'll typically stay in that system. Today's entry-level Sony A6000 buyer can be tomorrow's Sony A7 III buyer, etc. I use Sony APS-C mirrorless lenses. And I'd definitely use them on a Sony FF mirrorless body when I get one. Why not? They work.

@J A C SI currently own and shoot with six lenses that are f/2 or faster - and have owned, shot with, and then sold the Canon 24mm f1.4 L, 35mm f/1.4 L, 50mm f1.2 L, 50mm f/1.4, 85mm f/1.2 L. - How about you?

@StevieFIt's funny and sad to watch - having realized 5 years ago that mirror based systems were dead, and that mirrorless would replace them, I sold $30k of EOS system gear while it still had value, and moved to mirrorless. Fuji has been an upgrade across the board, and I now shoot MF Fuji for all of my pro work. It's great to see others catching on - I know it will be a nice upgrade for many.

Chris Dodkin - fair enough, although I'm not entirely sure why it should be funny and sad to watch - but no worries. Not everyone can afford to dump $$$ of gear and switch systems.

I'm one of those 'Nikon DSLR' shooters who has done very well over the years, and still does, but I waited until Nikon entered at least the FF mirrorless market, mainly because of the above reason. I am an approved photographer for a National charity and carry out wildlife work for them - silent operation is very useful, hence my interest.

I've just been very disappointed with the 'tone' of some of the comments by retards in the Nikon teaser threads - sure, we all have our favourites, but I would have thought that when photography is 'threatened' by the rise of the smartphone, everyone would have been genuinely interested when a major player enters a market - everyone benefits? Some muppets can't see that.

@StevieFIt's funny to see people making 'Never' comments on the Nikon forum, with their heads firmly buried in the sand - unable to look up and see that change is inevitable, and has the opportunity to improve their equipment and photography. At the same time it's sad that these people can't see past what they have, and embrace the future. Nikon have - they are talking about this being the standard for the next 100 years of Nikon.

It has "cult-like status" mainly due to its scarcity. People tend to mythologize things that are rare and scarce. But that scarcity just pertains to Nikon F. Canon introduced their first EF 50/1.2L in 2001 and it is readily available, easy to acquire new since it is still in production. Canon is supposedly even going to release an updated 50/1.2L II, just like they updated their 85/1.2 lens with the 85/1.2L II.

It has a hand figured aspheric front element, something more easily manufactured these days. These days lenses have molded plastic or glass elements but when the NOCT was built it was just laborious hand figuring and polishing.

I think A LOT of Sony owners are about to secretly dump their gear for pennies on the dollar to try and save up for this camera and lens. Just check the most common used gear website and it is littered with Sony gear.

All this hate from the fanboys but they will be some of the first adopters. They probably wont like it though because their photographs will still look terrible.

Nikon has only ever had this kind of lens in manual focus, and that lens is ancient. But Canon has had the 50/1.0L since 1989, the 50/1.2L since 2001. Both can be used on Sony bodies. The 50/1.0L is slow with AF (it always has been a slow-focusing lens), but the 50/1.2L works great. No need to switch to Nikon mirrorless for this lens one Nikon lens. Totally absurd. Especially when you consider that there are barely any other lenses for this new system! Sony currently has 25 FE (full frame E-mount) lenses of their own, as well as 9 FE lenses from Sigma, one from Tamron, one from Tokina, a few from Samyang/Rokinon, etc, not to mention numerous manual focus E-mount lenses. So why would anyone go from a system that offers ~40 native E-mount FF lenses to Nikon's that has only ~3?

Why? We can put f/0.95 lenses on our cameras. 58/1.2? I fail to see what is so special about this lens other than Nikon has been without fast glass for so long the current generation of Nikon owners just want their 50/1.2 and ice-cream. Nothing wrong with that but Sony users are not going to be dumping their gear for pennies on the dollar.

@sgt gatr -You said "A LOT OF Sony owners..." For what? A first-generation body and a niche lens? Come on, you know that statement was naïve. If Sony users want a 50/1.2, or an 85/1.2 AF lens, we have other options. But the reality is that f/1.2 lenses are fairly niche products. These are not lenses used by a LOT of users. In fact, a 50/1.2 lens is such a niche lens that is NOT used by many users that Nikon has never even bothered to make an AF one until now. The current Nikkor 50/1.2 AI-S was introduced in 1979!

If this new Nikon has D850ish or D7500ish ergonomics, my 7RM2 is gone gone GONE!

My excitement about this Nikon is SOLELY that it could mean that my prayers for an end to Sony ergonomics and haptics in my MILC life have finally been answered. I don't care about its sensor, i don't care about frame rate, i don't really care about the Z-Mount. I do kinda care about IBIS. But, since these Nikon teasers don't show anything, I'll still have to wait until the 23rd to see if there really is a loving God. :D

I think a change in ergonomics is the easiest thing to change. Next body, Sony just redesigns their ergos. It's a lot harder to build out a lens system. The irony would be if you switched, and right after that Sony updates their ergos based on whatever they see with Nikon's cameras, LOL, Murphy's Law in action!

Haha, actually, I don't care about MILC lens selection. I exclusively put adapted manual focus lenses on my 7RM2. And then only for a magnifying viewfinder and, to a much lesser degree, IBIS.

MILC AF has been SOOO inferior to DSLR AF that I'm not considering MILC as a replacement to DSLRs until that gap is very narrow. I know, I know. I've heard and read about the a9 and 7M3. A great step in the right direction, but the hype is really overblown and really truly isn't nearly as good in everyday (and night) shooting situations. Best-case bright daylight situations for the a9 and 7M3 are impressive and, again, promising. But that's a rare shooting situation for me and my real-life would have my Nikon DSLRs constantly delivering whereas all MILCs will be leaving me frustrated and missing lots of immediate-response-necessary shots.

I'm optimistic this new Nikon MILC will match or beat the a9/7M3 for AF performance, but also still don't expect it to match a D500's. Or even a D7200's for that matter. The full-frame AF points in MILC are nice though, and that's one of the reasons I eagerly anticipate a true DSLR-equivalent MILC.

@ivan1973 not sure who you were directing that too, but we have no idea what that feels like. I doubt anyone here cares what Sony is doing, (this is a Nikon forum for people interested in the new camera), otherwise they would be over at the Sony "Be Alpha" forum. How did you end up here?

Nikon is releasing 58mm F0.95 lens for the new system is competitive advantage. Sony is yet to release any native lens faster than F1.4. Some argue it is physically impossible for Sony to do so due to physical size of the mount. I think Nikon is going to concentrate on glass advantage rather than camera specs alone.

Good points. However, is it really “physically impossible” for Sony to release E-Mount lenses faster than F1.4? The Zhong Yi Mitakon 50mm F0.95 for Sony’s E-Mount seems to refute that. Even if it is not really a F0.95, it is definitely faster than F1.4 …

Glass is the only area where they can have a real edge on competitors like Sony.That and stability of the lineup: it's really annoying that trend of "model year" where one feel that the day after we bought it is already obsolete, that comes from the consumer electronics nature of some brands.

In the digital era neither Canon, Nikon nor Sony has released a lens faster than f1.4. All of the Canon 1.2 lenses use optical formulas from the film era with updated electronics. There's a good reason for that - f1.2 lenses are hard to make sharp, difficult to focus, prone to flare, expensive and have little practical use - especially arounf the 50mm FL. They are halo products from a different era where cameras were fully mechanical and 1/2 stop of light was important.

Nikon bringing one out (if they do) suggests to me that camera itself might technically underwhelming.

There is also the reviving of the Noct-Nikkor name, which helps suggest a continuum in the minds of users between the F mount and the Z mount.

Yes, the Nikon Z mount will allow for many things, like very fast lenses, and if Nikon wants to, expansion of sensor size in future. Sony is constrained for the future; they've already kludged a mount meant for APS-C to fit FF.

So as the camera market gets more any more upscale as smartphones keep encroaching from the bottom with better and better tech, Nikon can adjust, Sony will have to create an entirely new lens mount if they even are producing cameras at that point.

Also, with the Z mount they guarantee they will be the universal mount; other lenses will work with adapters, but not the other way around.

Plus who knows what else Nikon has planned with the Z mount and what other secrets there are? Nikon clearly has thought through this mount and is future proofing their cameras.

"Glass is the only area where they can have a real edge on competitors like Sony."

Explain. Nikon would have to launch their cameras with 48 lenses to equal e-mount. And that's just Sony, not third party.

"That and stability of the lineup: it's really annoying that trend of "model year" where one feel that the day after we bought it is already obsolete, that comes from the consumer electronics nature of some brands."

The release cycle of Sony cameras is not much different to Nikon. The A7r was announced in October 2013, the A7rII in June 2015 and the A7rIII in October 2017. That's 18 months, and 28 months. Compare with the D800/10/50 of 29 months and 36 months.

The most recent camera, the A7III was announced 3 years and 3 months after the A7II. The As7II has still not been replaced and will be 3 years old next month.

You 'consumer electronics' joke is on yourself, because Nikon has just replaced its 59 year old mount to compete with a 'consumer electronics' camera.

@RubberDials: hahaha...that's the first time I've seen anyone say that a camera company that makes a great leading edge lens means that the camera itself is lacking. I gotta give you credit for creative criticism. The next time Sony releases a good lens I'll just say that means their cameras aren't so good.

The camera will not be lacking. The NOCT is a statement lens, a halo effect product. It is a sign of Nikon's strength in all areas of the business, and meant to draw attention to the new Z cameras.

What I mean: The E mount was designed for APS-C, and then Sony adopted it to FF. Nothing wrong with that, but it means the size of the lens mount constrains them in the future.

As smartphones get better, dedicated camera companies will have to keep moving upscale. What if in 10 years, say, high end camera customers demand MF rather than FF? What if MF becomes the new FF? What if something like square sensors becomes the rage? Nikon will be able to easily adapt; Sony will be stuck.

@thoughts r us: not gonna happen. ff has been the accepted standard for a very long time... especially now the sony released a fantastic ff body (a7m2) at a fantastic price range. next most widely accept standard is apsc. medium format, even if it gets popular, will be far too expensive to 99% of consumers. pricing will be the biggest constraint. the increased weight and bulk will also be an issue.

When I say that Nikon has an edge on glass I mean that they can do it better than Sony (that buys from Zeiss at least the higher-end models), not the number of lenses. We don't know if there will be some adapter to enable f-mount FX lenses to be used on this new mount. If so it will easy outnumber Sony's.There's nothing wrong to be a consumer electronics company. Nikon is listed at Nikkei as precision equipment manufacturer. It's not better, is different. Regarding new models frequency, you are looking only to d800/810/850 model but Nikon (and Canon) have a much larger range.

@Rubberdials "Glass is the only area where they can have a real edge on competitors like Sony."Explain. Nikon would have to launch their cameras with 48 lenses to equal e-mount. And that's just Sony, not third party.

Nikon does not need to make 48 lenses. They will release just one fantastic nativ weather sealed AF 1.2 lens ;)

Thankfully, I don’t carry much glass these days - currently holidaying with a Sigma 24-35mm F/2 and Samyoung 135mm F/2 - so hopefully i’ll Only need to buy three lenses (and only once there is more selection). Still, I reckon I’ll need at least £5k, possibly quite a bit more.

Why would this be? If a company makes a great lens that does not mean the camera is lacking. Far from it; it means the company is running on all cylinders, and wants to draw attention to the camera. It means the camera can produce with the most demanding of lenses.

Geesh...lenses are huge part of any system. Usually when companies make great lenses they make great cameras. When Nikon came out with their recent 180-400 masterpiece, did anyone say that's because the D5 or D850 are not great cameras? No, we considered excellence in one area as a sign for excellence in the other.

It's called the halo effect because excellence in one product is meant to showcase excellence in another related product.

"Why would this be? If a company makes a great lens that does not mean the camera is lacking."

It's not them making a lens it's them promoting their lens technology in a teaser about a new technological venture.

If a guitarist told you he'd been taking singing lessons and then came on stage and played the guitar for ten minutes and didn't sing you'd be understandably wondering if the singing lessons had gone well.

Why do you not want that? What do you prefer it to be? I personally think it should be the new mount, more exciting than the camera, the camera will probably just have most of what a Sony camera has with improvements.

We aren't thinking the whole optics need to be reengineered, the new mount allows for faster primes. The smaller f-mount was just ever so slightly too small for some of the faster primes Canon had if I am not mistaken. They are remedying that issue with a larger mount on the z-series.

Also, with the reduction in flange distance, lenses do need to change accordingly. It's not a major change, and won't affect IQ, but it is a change nonetheless.

Just consider UWL of 15,21,25mm. In a SLR the film/sensor is located well beyond the front focal lengt of the lens: which implies an asymmetric construction to extent the focal length on the rear end. You need extra junk of glas.

Just compare the lens designs of the Zeiss ZM 2.8/21mm range finder lens with the Zeiss Milvus 2.8/21mm SLR lens. 300g with 9lens elements in 7 groups in the ZF, filter M46 vs 851g with 16/13 lens elements and a filter of M82! Both target the same sensor of 35mm, one for a mirrorless Leica M the other for a Canon/Nikon DSLR! Zeiss does not contruct the ZF.2 or Milvus lens so complicated just out of fun!

The gain in compactness of the lens design is huge for WA and UWA lenses on mirrorless, not so much for tele lenses, since the distance mount-sensor is usually smaller than the focal length.

@xiao - Yeah, just the mirror. Oh wait.. if you remove the mirror, then you can remove the entire internal mirror mechanism and motor to move that mirror.

Ah... hold on... no mirror, then I guess we won't need the optical prism for the viewfinder. Darn.. that's removing quite a bit of engineering out of the camera. Sure.. not a big deal if you say it isn't right?

Darn... with all the internals removed, guess it's of no use to have all that empty space that was once occupied by mirror and all the other stuff in that cavity. That means we can make the camera slimmer, putting the lens closer to the sensor.

Oh wait... pushing the lens closer to the sensor? That means a new lens system to compensate for the closer range to the sensor.

Adding an EVF, changing out sensor for one with PDAF, new lens designs for shorter flange distance, completely new ergonomics, different buttons/layout, uprated battery to cope with extra draw etc. etc.

"The gain in compactness of the lens design is huge for WA and UWA lenses on mirrorless"

Unfortunately negated by the different protocols of designing for a digital sensor over film (not a continuously flat surface, glass stack etc.), which is why Sony's wideangles are still reverse telephoto designs and Nikon's will be as well.

So, yes, there are advantages to shorter flange distance. It allows lens engineers to make lenses smaller, or give them more complex lens formulas that do more optical corrections resulting in higher optical performance.

Another factor is that shorter focal-length lenses no longer need to be reverse-telephoto to overcome the long back-focus distance of SLRs.

Nikon is building up a prestigious image for their future mirrorless line-up. I hope it won't turn in to a hype. All we need is choice of FF mirrorless cameras from at least 4-5 different brands to stop big corporations charging the consumer over the odds. Fanboyism and one brand domination costs you a lot. So far Sony have been enjoying the very high profits in this segment. Don't let love blind you ;-)

No, actually the pathetic things around here are Nikon's so-called "teasers," and Nikon and Sony fanboys incapable of discussing photography. Rather instead just insulting other posters they know absolutely nothing about. Now that's pathetic.

Royal Hater: I don't like the teasers either. Particularly the one showing an old but beautifully designed rangefinder and then changing to an ordinary black plastic body.But knowing Nikon, I am 100% sure they will realease a killer camera and wonderful lenses. Your attitude here bashing Nikon post after post is really inmature. No objectivity. You are just a troll.

brycesteiner: Sorry, but Nikon is not paying DPR for running the video; smart move on Nikon to get the word out to a lot of people for the price of making the videos. DPR has had paid advertisements in the past in their news feed, but they note that it is a paid post.

Nikon would make quite a buzz if they launched a Noct-NIKKOR-like 43mm, and/or changed the advertised focal length of the Noct-NIKKOR in the teaser to 59mm (while making it 60.2mm in paper) because it's 1.4x times the normal focal length and would produce a nicer field-of-view among the short-teles (although 58 isn't that far off).

A lens made for a longer flange distance can be adapted to a shorter flange distance because that distance difference offers width to work with. What you're talking about is optically very complex and wouldn't be small. It would effectively move the focal plane from where the lens wants and project it further back. This is certainly possible, it's just not logical to do.

We were cool! We were awesome! We are legend! We've lost too much because of our sluggishness. That's why you should wait our mirrorless FF camera for eternity and keep yourself from buying Sony's one every day. Such a cheap behavior gets annoying.

For every person criticizing this marketing campaign, the very fact that you are posting on this forum and talking about it is validation that the Nikon marketing campaign works, and is in fact sheer genius.

"For every person criticizing this marketing campaign, the very fact that you are posting on this forum and talking about it is validation that the Nikon marketing campaign works, and is in fact sheer genius."

Not sure how you work that out. A new Nikon mount is a big story. Similarly Nikon's first FF mirrorless. There would even more comments here if they actually revealed the specs.

@RubberDials: first off, Nikon will reveal the specs at the official announcement. That's why it's called the announcement. Wouldn't make sense to reveal all beforehand.

So they have a choice: stay silent until the announcement, like most companies with most products, and get very little attention...or do this teaser campaign. There is no doubt without this teaser campaign that interest and discussion in the Z would not be nearly as great.

You only need to wait a few more days to see what it is all about, not eternity. Secondly they are not keeping anyone from buying anything, you have free will, and free choice.

I do not understand why you feel the need to mock them, and insult them? Does this really bother you that much?

Also, what makes you think anyone here cares about Sony? They probably use Nikon DSLR, and now Nikon is making a new product so they are excited about it. It makes more sense to bash Nikon on the Sony forum, bashing them here makes you look like your jealous or something...are you?

People are posting on DPR, not the Nikon teaser page. If DPR put up an article about the Nikon mirrorless with no mention of the teaser it would generate as many comments.

People are understandably interested in the camera and the replacing of F mount after nearly sixty years - why would they not be? It's two very big stories.

The campaign is not 'genius' in any way. It seems to be irritating people with it's pretentiousness, and I'm talking Nikon users, not Sony. I didn't even watch the last teaser. The rumour sites post the best image above their text.

It won’t be cheap behaviour if/when the camera takes off - which it will IF Nikon get the launch right - that’s the unknown of course. Slice it any way you like but everyone who has been around these teasers (including those who are, of course, impervious to marketing) WILL look at launch - and that’s all they were ever designed for.

According to the marketing genius’ around here Nikon’ should have said nothing whatsoever before the 23rd and then slipped out a press release that said ‘ Hi, we know we’re late to this market, but bear with us and please have a look at this camera when you finally read this and then get a chance. Thanks ever so much, have a nice day, love Nikon’.

Nikon's ad campaign has Sony fans so angry, it can only be jealousy. If you like your Sony camera and do not care for this release why are they all in here posting so much. We could care less what you think or what camera is better, we like this one! Must be the "Be Alpha" brain washing.

2all:Only Nikon mostly always tell: "blah-blah, I AM AMAZING, blah-blah we've made a new masterpiece" and gets their cameras to shops when everybody already forgot about 'em. Now they've realized there's no even need to make a camera first for that.

2NOWHITELENS:I still have D7100 as a backup camera and/or mule for old lenses I love (screw-af ones), so you can call someone another a Sony boy, but not me. If any brand but Sony would have their own FF mirrorless right now I'd not even mention alpha.

2Thoughts R Us:You can burn your head to get famous on youtube or make something good to settle there for long. An interesting product can attract more people than such tricks. Bright announcement can do it better too – Apple is the best example.

@Suave - and has been to the NBA finals ever since, garnered the respect as one of the greatest players of all time, is in the top 10 of highest paid athletes on the planet. Yea trying to put Nikon down by comparing him to LeBron makes so much sense, please tell us more.

@NOWHITELENS:That was said about that:"Be Alpha brains are easily washed. THEY ARE TINY !" Of course I can agree with you that non everyone is waiting for mirrorless – most people are happy with DSLRs.

@sunil. Why on Earth do I need f/0.95? To have 20 micron DOF? Or to compensate for all that light I am not getting at 10,000 ISO? Although I gotta admit it will match well with my 5'6" 220lb frame and my racing stripes Camaro.

Yup, but Sony's mirrored adapters run back into the same old issues that DSLRs had: AF fine tune and a small cluster of AF points towards the center. AF fine tune being the biggest drawback possible. Nikon's adapter should also be an SLT, to minimize complexity, so you'll be losing 1/3-1/2 stop of light using the adapter, as well.

Canon M series bodies have no problem driving old EF lenses through its adapter, which is just a plastic extension tube with electrical pass-through contacts. Considering that the Z mount is being developed from scratch, there is no good reason why Nikon cannot accommodate a similar adapter, except with a motor in the adapter to work with screw-drive lenses.

As for LA-EA4, either Sony's on-sensor AF was not up to the task at the time (it clearly shouldn't be a problem today), or it was deliberately designed like a Rube Goldberg machine in order to discredit the entire adapter concept, encouraging users to buy E mount lenses instead of keeping their A mount lenses.

I don't think any light will be lost using the adapter. F-mount lenses will have same flange focal on the Z-Mount adapter as they would on native F-mount bodies. No need for any glass in the adapter as all that is needed is more distance to focal plane than the native Z-mount offers.

I understand that the A7r did not have phaze detect on the sensor so the adaptor required a mirror and seperate AF module to provide this for adapted lenses, this won't be the case for the Nikon. If the A9 has good phaze detect then the technology is currently good enough, and will improve with time for all manufacturers. Sony users claim metabones adaptors are as good with adapted Canon lenses on Sony bodies as they are on native Canon bodies and these adaptors don't have a mirror.

They aren't using a mirrored adaptor. And I am quite certain Sony and Canon are both watching this release with great interest. Sony had their free run, Nikon and Canon are both coming loaded for bear. Sony back to third.

Sony is still third and always has been. Never surpassed Nikon or Canon except in their own homespun press release propaganda.

And no matter what Sony announces, it will not matter because it will not kill the buzz around this Nikon announcement. Nikon has spent weeks getting the world ready and the anticipation is there. Nikon has a far larger user base. And it's not often that Nikon announces an entirely new breed of camera and mount.

And what can Sony realistically announce? The a7s iii? That's a niche product that appeals most to video people. Nothing wrong with that but hardly the type of product to compete against this Nikon Z monster.

Remember shortly after the D850 Sony announced the a7riii? How'd that work out for Sony? The D850 went on to sell extremely well and the a7riii seemed to fizzle.

58/0.95 doesn't sound like Nikon and Noct does neither. Lets see if that Nocticlone is any cheaper than the original. Would also be a very interesting challenge to properly focus it without the rangefinder. Yes, Nikon used one for the old lens.

There never was a linked rangefinder for any F mount. You are thinking of the two fisheyes that required mirror lock up and a hot shoe finder. Yes focus was interesting with split prism and the Noct, the boss had one.Focus assist will make the Z Noct much easier.It was a fabulous lens. http://www.noct-nikkor.com/

All the hype, all the teasers, and all the speculation will not amount to a hill of beans until the camera(s) and all the lenses are introduced and the products have had sufficient, 6 months, use and reviews. Although I hope for the best, given the problems NIKON has experienced in the past since the D600 fiasco I will wait until fall 2019.

What does Sony have? An a7s iii? A niche product more aimed at videographers?

Sony's took their best shot with the a7iii to try to lock down market share. Now their free ride is up. They have had literally no competition in FF mirrorless but that's coming to an end. Their market share is guaranteed to drop.

Here's what happens: Nikon crushes it with their Z. Sony offers up some weak tea by comparison and few notice or care outside of loyal Sony users. Then Canon eventually announces, and then people forget about Sony entirely.

I'm rooting for all of the camera companies to do well as i own a large sony rig an equal amount of nikon and a much bigger canon package. ill buy the A7sIII likely when it comes out (for video to add to my A7sII). there are so many amazing options these days. i like the competition as it will force innovation and helps to drive prices down a bit. could be a very interesting sept!!

IF it was reality (and oh boy won't it be interesting to see if it's anything but blowing smoke) that Nikon would start off with a series of specialty lenses Sony couldn't match to get them established as a force to reckon with, it would be perfect for them. Do I think this is what they really have up their sleeve? Nope. But if Nikon's marketing geniuses had their act together they'd do just that.

Yes, sounds like a recipe for success - release only lenses that have been discontinued due to low demand and low practical use. And that was even before digital sensors with usable ISO in the ten thousands became available.

It doesn't matter if it's AF or MF. The market for such lenses is very small compared to more common lenses like 24-70 or 70-200 zooms. It would be a big mistake for Nikon to start off with such a lens if that means that people have to wait longer for the more common lenses.

Actually it has a precedent in other industries. Chevy sells lots of Camaro and other lower priced cars to people who can't afford a Corvette. Same for Ford GT and Mustangs. They call them halo cars. They make the lesser models look better and build brand loyalty.Even though they won't sell many of these new lenses, it makes the whole line look better.

It's a $900 lens for a 1" mirrorless system that is now dead! Did the Nikkor 32mm f/1.2 elevate the Nikon 1 system? No, not really. I wonder how many of these lenses Nikon ever sold. Probably not many, at its $900 asking price. That's why I think these fast Z-mount lenses are probably going to be very pricey. And they probably won't sell many of these "specialty lenses" either. Nikon sure knows how to spend their R&D money, don't they!

Interest is intense for this new Z system and for the rumored new Noct. Nikon will have no problem selling every copy they make, even though the price will be high. Look at Leica; they sell out of their sky high fast specialty lenses.

Nikon will always be a 'blue collar' lens maker. Works well, sometimes great but hardly 'prestigious'/'elitist'.Friend told me to get myslef a Leica. I said to him I need a working camera. [something that doesn't break the bank every time I need to upgrade]

Not sure where you are getting info, but they are starting out pretty boring with a 24-70/4 and 50/1.8. No one would say not to bring common zoom ranges, but it isn’t going to differentiate you as a system. Everyone has those.

So, I’m going to take a nap while you get through the obligatory F4 and F2.8 zooms. Wake me up when the noct arrives and maybe I’ll switch mounts (unless that f-mount adapter is crazy good)

@Collie Camp"Thank god Sony never developed some system and then failed miserably..."

>Beta Max?

Betamax was introduced in 1975. It lost the format war to VHS, but Sony didn't stop Betamax recorder production until 2002, and they didn't stop Betamax tape production until March of 2016, nearly 40 years after it was introduced.

Sony introduced MiniDisc in 1992. Sony ended production of the MiniDisc Walkman line in 2011 (19 years after it was introduced). As of 2011 they were still make MiniDisc recorders for the Japanese market.

@@Collie Camp - The point of all this is that even with very small demand Sony will keep a system going well past its prime, especially if it is a proprietary product like MiniDisc or Betamax. That obviously wasn't the case with Vaio computers and laptops because computers are mostly just commodities.

Sony can do this kind of stuff (ie, keep products going, even with very limited demand) because they are a very large company with a lot of money. Nikon is a much smaller company and they don't have the resources or money that Sony has. Sony is worth $54B, Nikon is worth $7B.

Right, but I don't expect Nikon to simply release the old designs of these commonly used lenses, just with a built-in spacer to adapt to the smaller flange distance. They'd be throwing away the advantages they could achieve by designing for the new mount, or as Nikon calls it: "will enable a new dimension in optical performance with the adoption of a new mount".

Whether they also do that for the 58/1.2 - often a collectors' item - is a different question.

think there is a good reason why canon dropped the 50mm 1.0 L years ago. the real challenge is to develop lenses which are able to focus extrem fast with this new systems, optical quality is for nikon no problem I'm sure. they probaply focus on lens speed because their new system will be ok but nothing more than mediocre compared to the others.

What? My A7r ii picks up the difference between my 58 1,4 and 50 1,2. The Mitakon 50 0,95 has a pretty unrivalled look. A 58 (not "dull, ordinary 50mm") superfast as a halo product for the high end ff mirrorless- where the money is obviously - makes pretty good sense to me. But sure, they should obviously have released a plastic USD200 "nifty fifty" 1,4. Preferrably with a noisy AF motor.

Well if you find those images or others made with that lens horrible, and think that a soft filter will produce the same effect, then you are beyond help. A soft filter will render the entire image slightly vintage, it won't keep a vanishingly thin sliver relatively sharp and then throw the rest into wonderful oblivion.

People love the 50 0,95 for a reason and I think a well-built 58/0,95 sounds awesome for a new full frame mirrorless mount.

"Well if you find those images or others made with that lens horrible, and think that a soft filter will produce the same effect, then you are beyond help. "

Did you view the gallery? If you think those pictures are anything other than tragic - I'll return the compliment - then you are beyond help.

In the first picture only the net is in focus. In the second only the ball - both boys faces are out of focus. In the third only the boy's eyes and the part of his shirt on the same plane. In the fourth only his eyes. The rest of his face, his body, legs, arms and hands are all out of focus. As pictures they simply don't work. They are visually incoherent. The depth of focus is too shallow.

An f1.4 would give a much better result. Even better would be the Sony 100 STF, which has enough depth of focus to render the whole face in focus but completely smooth out the background with the apodization filter.

With the ISO performance of today's cameras, such fast lenses are not needed. And DOF will likely be TOO thin in many cases. On top of all that, 50mm is one of the most boring focal lengths. People must be nuts to spend that kind of money on such a lens.

For telephoto/super tele just use the adaptor with F mount versions. No real size/weight advantage to super tele's for mirrorless.

As for the value of this lens...well, some will love it, some won't feel they need it. But a super fast lens does have a look of its own, just look at the Leica lenses. For everyone who berates the idea of this new Noct, just look at how well Leica has done with lenses like this.

The question is, whether it makes sense from a business point of view. An exotic lens, which is probably expensive, in a shrinking market, how many Sony users would buy one? The 55/1.8 is great, the FE50/1.4 even better, a fabulous lens and more versatile for me personally than a 58mm. Furthermore, it needs to be really sharp at f0.95 to make sense.

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