500 words a day on whatever I want

Don Lemon

Don Lemon (1966- ) is an openly gay, Black American television news presenter and reporter. He lives on Frederick Douglass Boulevard in Harlem and wants to take the term “Uncle Tom” back. In 2013, after showing “tough love” to black people after the Zimmerman verdict and then coming out in favour of stop-and-frisk policing, CNN gave him his own show weeknights at 11.00pm ET, to start in December.

Growing up in Louisiana, Lemon wanted to be Max Robinson. Robinson (pictured) was the first black news presenter to regularly appear on American television from coast to coast (on ABC, 1978 to 1984).

Lemon’s parents never married. At age six he was sexually abused. At age 45 he came out as gay, just ahead of his book, “Transparent” (2011).

From 2003 to 2006 Lemon was on NBC Channel 5 in Chicago, Robinson’s old stepping stone.

Since 2006 he has been on CNN.

In 2013, after the Zimmerman verdict let a Hispanic man get away with killing a black teenage boy, Bill O’Reilly on Fox News scolded blacks (not Hispanics) for bad parenting. Lemon agreed and said O’Reilly did not go far enough: if black people “really want to fix the problem”, there are five things that they should think about doing:

Just because you can have a baby, it doesn’t mean you should. Especially without planning for one or getting married first.

Finish school.

Respect where you live. Start small by not dropping trash, littering in your own communities. (He says whites rarely litter.)

Do not use the N-word.

Pull up your pants.

Lemon called it “tough love”.

It is not an act of love: He lives in Harlem. He has to know that city services, like schooling and street cleaning, are terrible there and in other black parts of the city – and that they suddenly get better when white people start moving in. So to turn that stuff on black people is not helpful.

Nor is it an act of love to say it right after the Zimmerman verdict. It is what it is: a cheap Fox News deflection.

Nor is it an act of love to say it in front of a mostly white audience, strengthening their racist views rather than challenging them.

As far as I know, Lemon has not yet told white people what five things they should do. Tough love is only for black people, apparently, as if they are wayward children.

Then just a few weeks ago he had another Uncle Ruckus moment when he came out in support of stop and frisk. He has been racially profiled himself and knows what the police are like. Yet he frames it as a choice between being politically correct or being safe and alive. Constitutional rights, apparently, are only for white people.

What this reminds me of is Michelle Malkin and Barack Obama. Both paid their white club dues by throwing their own race under the bus.

The overall American theme of responsibility is to always blame it on the black people, and white people are never, ever to be blamed for anything, especially not racism. This is not to say that black people are blameless. We aren’t, but neither are white people or anyone for that matter. Yet, it’s telling when you blame certain whites for something they’ve done and they go all to pieces.

I always admit that I used to think like Don Lemon. I wrote a letter to the newspaper blaming blacks for our problems. I wish I hadn’t. Though, I learned a lot since then, and one of things I’ve learned is that we are not a “problem people”.

Stop looking at the strawman’s, there are thousands of black people out here willing to sell their people out for a Buck & pat from white daddy.

It is a good short-term move, but when the Don Lemon’s like George Zimmerman offends the wrong white person, their moment in the sun will go as fast as it came.

And whites in this country are hella protected to the point where when it is time for most whites to deal with adversity, they are ready to shoot themselves because no one ever told the truth about their strengths & weaknesses.

The question remains would he have gotten where he is at CNN if his views were otherwise? Rarely today do you see on the “mainstream” media folks with the attitude of a “Putney Swope,” who didn’t just want to rock the boat, but sink it, change the institution for the better. Years ago there was a PBS show called “Black Perspective on the News,” which gave “black” reporters for various news outlets a platform to comment on events from their perspective. We could use such a show today. But even the so-called “black networks” don’t have their own news divisions.

People…let’s not forget that this guys is light skinned also. He’s the right shade that makes those white people comfortable. His blackness is acceptable. Just like Beyonce and Colin Powell. Hell…I don’t even know if Beyoncé is black anymore.

and once again, please stop saying Zimmerman is a “white Hispanic” — he is mestizo, not white — just because the white racists are using him as a poster boy, doesn’t erase his recent Native and African ancestry

it’s important to make that statement because Zimmerman and Don Lemon both have something in common as “people of colour” — they bought and drank the Kool-aide that white American society has sold them when it comes to the stereotypes and image of black people.

Don with his eyes wide open (because he knows better) to make himself seem “unbiased”; and like some immigrants and Hispanics, Zimmerman wants to fit in, so he follows and parrots the white American mindset (he must have learned that being 1/2 white in America buys you No brownie points)

and now Zimmerman is about to learn what happens when white people have no more use for you, now that he pulled a gun on his blond, white girlfriend.

“George Zimmerman was charged Monday with felony aggravated assault after allegedly pointing a shotgun at his girlfriend”

As for Don, like I said before, he did say some “home truths” but was CNN the right forum to express it.

I know in the beginning I was defending him but as someone stated, he only reinforced the negative image in the minds of white America

and after the recent experience on this board concerning black man/ black women and the whole “nbw” and name calling of black women, I realized I don’t like the look or feel of having “house” business put out for the world to see, view, laugh, and judge.

and God bless Don Lemon for trying but it fell flat because of his delivery and platform.

So, I guess the question is: how can people of colour communicate across the Internet or within the media in a positive way that discusses these issues– ones that do indeed hurt or impact the black community– (sagging pants, calling each other the N-word, disrespect and belittling of black women) –these things NEED to be discussed but to me

it needs to be discussed without making black people look like fools — these are “in-house” issues that need to be addressed because they are important

Man I can’t believe that dude is a neighbor of mine. I live on 8th Ave (what we native NYCers call Frederick Douglass Blvd) and Abagond is absolutely right about the services issues. They didn’t improve until white people started moving in and, in fact, the real estate folks tried to rename this section of Harlem by calling it Soha (South Harlem). I guess it was an attempt to catch some of the real estate mojo of Soho but the neighborhood didn’t go for it and it failed.

Insofar as Lemon, he knows better but that’s what professional Uncle Ruckuses do. He’s trying to avoid what happened to Soledad O’Brien who apparently has way integrity than he does. There’s another particularly loudmouth, annoying and hypocritical Uncle Ruckus in sports media by the name of Jason Whitlock. I’m rarely surprised when people sellout but what always surprises me is how cheaply they sellout. When all is said and done and the usefulness of Lenon and Whitlock is over, those types usually wind up forgotten or running back to the community they dissed.

Unlike true lions like Gil Noble (RIP) where their principled greatness will live on. For those of you who don’t know Gil Noble, he was a groundbreaking reporter for the local ABC affiliate. But, what really enshrined him as a media legend was his long running community affairs show “Like It Is” which he hosted until his death.

Okay, I’m going to engage in some hyperbole now (though it’s merited) but that show should be required viewing in every mostly black school in the country. It’s an amazing historical documentation of events from a black perspective from the Civil Rights era until a few years ago. The stock footage alone is a treasure. It’s hard to understate how great and important that show was as it’s what any black journalistic enterprise should aspire to. That he did it for decades while constantly having to fight white management and on a shoe string budget really puts the shame to outlets like Ebony, Jet, Essence, Black Enterprise, BET, Skip Gates, et al.

“But even the so-called “black networks” don’t have their own news divisions.”

They sure don’t bet did have tj holmes fine ass on there but they took him off because he is above that raggedy network and was speaking truth and sense to people. Unlike everything else on that network I do wish tv one would have a black news or something because that network seems to be more classy and about empowering black people than bet(buffoonery entertainment network).

@abagond i don’t agree with your take on the ‘non-‘ hispanic race, sure i’m not the only one, or is that just mixed
but also team tommy (sotomayor) etc. also harp about the ‘emasculation’ of the black man, this dude is not going to be taken seriously, it is a left-ist media token

why does don lemon and that other reporter kinda look alike except the other reporter has a nice fro. And oh its amazing how he’s now getting a show after all this stuff he’s said smh. the more u throw other black people under the bus the more airtime u get. They can have him, I also notice he is pretty much the only black person on cnn, he’s just a token negro. ok don since u want to give black America 5 things we should do here’s my five for ppl like u:

1. I know u have a job to do but u don’t have to volunteer to throw black people under the bus I mean dang u could at least wait until they come to u. white elite:” ok we need a segment about black people- , Don;”ooh ooh pick me” white elite: ” uh u didn’t let me finish” Don: ” that’s ok I already know what to do talk at them not to them, and talk condescendingly to them oh and for added measure agree with some tea party racist just to piss em off” White elite: “well good job u keep this up don and u will have ur own show mawhahahahwhah”
Don” oh thank u sir I won’t let u down amawhahw *cough* mawha” white elite: “now get back to work I don’t pay u for nothing now get out there and be the black face for our racist ideas that way we won’t have to deal with the whiners saying we are racist like fox”

2. look around do u see white ppl having a white reporter saying these are the five things white America should do 1. don’t be racist 2. don’t let ur kids shoot up a school 3. have more babies so we don’t become the minority 4. don’t allow ur kids to dress as emo or goth 5. don’t get defensive when someone points out racism. No don u don’t see them talking to whites about their issues if they do it’s not in a condescending way or after the murder of a child and the killer getting away with the murder

3. go to fox news that way we know without a doubt what side u on.

4. remember that u are replaceable they can always get another person that is willing to clown for less money

I’m with you in spirit but it’s all about the execution. Those “surface issues” should be talked about but we have to be careful not to play into the black cultural pathology nonsense which implies that the main problem with blacks are things like the sagging pants, n-word, etc., as opposed to white racism, and if those things are resolved then all will be well. Of course we can do better on certain personal issues but even if every black family were a Cosby Family clone that wouldn’t solve the racism issue.

Also we have to approach the issue with honestly and without hypocrisy. None of the things you mentioned are new – the use of the n-word, the um…questionable (lol)…fashion choices and the emotional name calling from both sides predate all of us. I mean I grew up watching grown men dress in loud pimp fashion and walk down the street stiff legged while literally holding their junk and they generally treated women horribly and dropped the n-word with aplomb and the grown women weren’t much better behaved. Now to see those guys throw on a dashiki and play “village elders” as they turn into hectoring finger wagging scolds is quite interesting to put it mildly.

What makes me think Obama has thrown black people under the bus? Mainly the Rev Wright affair. At the time I wrote it off as something he had to do to get elected, a necessary evil. I should have known better. Now I see it in a different light given all the things he has done since – like:

– throwing Shirley Sherrod under the bus,
– his Touching Concern for the Lives of White Children,
– his inaction on racial profiling and other issues that affects blacks,
– his near silence on race,
– his doing little of substance in the face of the the gutting of the Voting Rights Act, Zimmerman verdict and the 50th anniversary of the March on Washington.

And probably half a dozen other things that are not coming to mind at the moment. Just his whole pattern of behaviour. Obama shows as little concern for black people as Richard Nixon.

You raise some very good points. Black people have a in house issues that need to be addressed and on a serious level. I can’t answer this question ” how can people of colour communicate across the Internet or within the media in a positive way that discusses these issues– ones that do indeed hurt or impact the black community,” But I will ponder on it and hope to give a better response later down the line.

@ Ks

I know we are not on good terms, but frankly have to give you credit for this statement “the black cultural pathology nonsense which implies that the main problem with blacks are things like the sagging pants, n-word, etc.” I agree 100% enough said.

“ks @ Those “surface issues” should be talked about but we have to be careful not to play into the black cultural pathology nonsense which implies that the main problem with blacks are things like the sagging pants, n-word, etc., as opposed to white racism

Also we have to approach the issue with honestly and without hypocrisy. None of the things you mentioned are new – the use of the n-word, the um…questionable (lol)…fashion choices and the emotional name calling from both sides predate all of us”

Linda,

but on the flip side, I come from and go home once a year, to a majority black/brown Caribbean country where racism from “white” people are not our problem in our society

but yet, we have internal “surface” issues with our younger generation who are following the same “fashionable” choices as black American young people and the disrespect of black women — we see these things as a poverty or “class” issue but it still remains a problem because it’s affecting society on the whole.

… it’s not OK to continue to do and uphold negativity just because your parents and past generations “used” to do it too– 2 wrongs don’t make a right. Those who “know better” should strive to “do better” — where does the tree get it’s strength from– it’s branches or it’s roots?

the problem with African descendants of the diaspora is that we’ve been cut off from our roots, and our ancestors were like “saplings” who were replanted in sand.

Each new generation are the new branches that belong to and affect the overall growth of the tree.

Can the tree grow tall, prosper, and withstand the strong winds if it’s branches are “weak” and keep breaking off? –no, it doesn’t — it suffers from “natural” pruning because it’s growth becomes stagnant.

I hear you but, much like African countries, while direct racism from whites is not present, the structure is still in place. They’ve just replaced their physical presence with organizations the IMF, World Bank, the alphabet soup of NGOs and dubious trade agreements. In Africa though unlike the Caribbean they’ve added the direct military element like Africom.

Some of my Jamaican friends make the same point that you do and say what they call “yardy(sp?) culture/style” has taken over much to their dismay. To me, it’s not surprising that they mirror the US hip hop “fashion” style and whatnot as dancehall and raggamuffin which drove that culture is closely related to hip hop. Of course none of this excuses the bad behavior nor the godawful fashion choices.

Also, I’m not saying that poor behavior is okay because it was done in the past. I’m only saying that in order to address it now we need to realize that nobody comes to the table with clean hands.

I think saying: “Here’s what we did and it was wrong and I want you to learn from it…” is a more fruitful approach than lecturing at folks from a false Mt.Olympus like perfection. It’s a way of saying “I’m on your side and with you so let’s figure this out together. In my experience the youth know when they are being bsed and they just tune out. Now they may not know the exact details but they “just know” and it’s not like the hectoring or finger wagging has worked so why not try something else?

“ks@ I hear you but, much like African countries, while direct racism from whites is not present, the structure is still in place.”

Linda says,

true but it’s not the same…in the Caribbean and Africa, we still control our own destiny as people of colour — white people are not in control of our countries, they are not in our faces on a day to day basis, nor are they calling the political, educational, business, or societal shots — they don’t control employment or college admissions decisions.

… they don’t make decisions for us, control our media, our judicial system or shape our society… they do in America and black people have to live with white America’s decisions… in black/brown countries, we make those decisions –that’s the difference

The international organizations and tourism affect our microeconomics based on decisions that our black and brown leaders make in regards to fiscal policies — that sort of “white supremacy” is not the same racism that affects black people on a day to day level in America

Black Americans have a different fight as “citizens” of a country that is trying to treat them like foreigners — that’s why there is a fight and a question as to “what is the best way for black Americans to be fully integrated members of American society”

I wish young people would listen but unfortunately, (as we older people and parents know), young people tend to think they “know it all” already and don’t want to listen …that’s why they have to feel the lick :-)

As you stated, Don Lemons “advise” only touched on surface issue but the question still remains, what is the issues that are holding black Americans back and how do they get addressed?

Why is his homosexuality relevant? It is incidental to the subject matter of this post. Pointing it out as a defining characteristic for no particular reason comes off as homophobic, as if his sexual orientation matters in this situation.

Fair points about the differences between the US and Caribbean and Africa. Overall though I think it may be different facets of the same overall struggle.

In terms of feeling the lick : ) well unfortunately parents here face a reasonable chance of being put in jail or caught up in the system if they try and administer old school discipline.

About real solutions, I think it’s a fine line between the Dubois camp and Booker T. Washington camp. People tend to come down on one side or the other but often miss the point that context and timing is everything and both approaches are important.

Given our physical reality here of being a minority we need to have our legal rights established and protected and we need economic development in our own communities. I’d lean more toward the latter now as our communities are in economic freefall though it’s tricky as we need the “space” to do so by eliminating things like Stop and Frisk/Prison Industrial Complex and so on but I can’t escape the nagging feeling, given the legal/social gains of the Civil Rights era, that if we can hold fast on that and build a sustainable economic base, we’d be much better off going forward.

I noticed. I think abagond is homophobic. He says he isn’t and that he is only “saddened” by homosexuality but his excuse sounds so similar to that of homophobes I’ve encountered. They put up a facade of “Oh, I’m not homophobic, I merely ‘disapprove’ of it.” It comes across as dishonest. Of all the “-isms” that abagond has covered, I’d say he comes out weakest on homophobia. He does fine on sexism, or at least better than me. And of course, he is excellent on racism. I am hoping/assuming that abagond was not trying to imply in any way that Don Lemon’s homosexuality is a moral fault, though it seems he did. (LOL Homophobia is an “ism”)

“So, I guess the question is: how can people of colour communicate across the Internet or within the media in a positive way that discusses these issues– ones that do indeed hurt or impact the black community– (sagging pants, calling each other the N-word, disrespect and belittling of black women) –these things NEED to be discussed but to me

it needs to be discussed without making black people look like fools — these are “in-house” issues that need to be addressed because they are important”

I don’t think discussing these things make black people look like fools. I think if a person feels that way it’s just their own racism manifesting itself. I don’t mean that as an accusation either. We all have racists beliefs.

Also I don’t see how sagging pants could be anymore of an issue than showing cleavage.

When I woke up today, the 700 club was on, on the TV in my bedroom. Pat Robertson was introducting a story on some new craze of gang members pushing random people to the floor for kicks. While introducing the story with his WW co host, who’s name escapes me at this time, (who is actually the adoptive mother of multiple Black children, and who has mysteriously abruptly replaced the former BW co host who had been there for years), he said “a gang member did this, and did it to the wrong one who was armed, not too long ago. But, now, we’ve learned we can’t defend ourselves, I’ve learned my lesson on that,” with his WW co host nodding along in agreement. (The adoptive mother of multiple African American boys???) I will never support or watch the 700 club again; I was infuriated.
1. Trayvon was not a gang member as far as I know.
2. He did not initiate the confrontation, that is precisely why “Stand your ground” was not applicable, and therefore, no utilised in the case.

I knew Robinson could be a narrow minded Republican, but being so dismissive and insensitive to a Black kids death, and demonizing him when he is already dead and gone, all the while professing God and Christianity, man, I did not expect that. That was appalling.
It is absolutely disgusting how Trayvon’s death has brought to light the true lack of inhumanity towards, the hatred, the bigotry, and the animosity that so many people harbour towards the Black community. I’d heard this Don Lemon’s name come up a lot recently, but was not aware of the reason behind it. But I’m not suprised.
The fall-out from this case has been a sharp rude awakening.

Many people say Trayvon was put on trial and not Zimmerman, but the horrific truth goes beyond that, this has presented the opportunity to put the entire Black community on trial.

“Why was Trayvon k!lled?”

“Because Black people litter, and you know it. You deserve it, it’s your own fault, you should expect it, it’s bound to happen. Get it together or don’t complain in future.”

I don’t think anything has anything to do with Black men “sagging their pants.” A new law was introduced in neighbourhoods near the Jersey Shore, so you can be arrested for “sagging,” and we all know who they’re intending to target. But I guess the endless stream of White girls in string bikinis isn’t as offensive, nor is the crowds of shirtless sunbathing White guys on their way to the beach, as offensive as the suggestion of exposed boxers when pants are worn in a sagging fashion, which was the said reason for the law being introduced. No one seems to complain about young White rocker guy and piercings, mohawks, tattoos, skinny jeans and scary Black leather. No, for them, it’s their culture, for us, it’s the vindication of institutionalized racism and Black oppression. Stick that in your Black pathologies pipe and smoke it. . . smoke it deep.

I see what you all are saying but I don’t think it was a diss by Abagond. I think the openly gay thing has to do with how Lemon publicly came out. IIRC, he was on CNN for years before he came out and I think he announced it on air via his promotion for his book which I think was called “Transparent” or something like that.

as much as I disagree with don lemon on some things there are improvements people can make. I just don’t agree with the timing and putting it out there on national tv. Now if he wants to host a camp or something and educate black youth and the people he thinks needs to change then fine. But to go on tv right after the murder of a child and wag ur finger in black ppl’s faces is just rude. Timing and deliver are everything, let people grieve, the black community is upset trayvon’s killer got off so when u start saying u need to do xyz then of course u will be attacked because the anger is still fresh. Nobody lectured white folks when the theater or sandy hook shooting occurred so why use the murder of a teen to do that to the black community?
I don’t like seeing ppl sagging their pants or dressing with their arse and br3st out but there is a way to go about it. Some don’t have parents that are on them so they do as they wish and they may need someone to point it out to them. Then it’s also peer pressure but again parents come in to regulate that and tell them if u want to live here u will obey my rules. If some have to be kicked out so be it, now tough love is telling someone what they did wrong and giving them consequences for their continued bad behavior not putting them on blast to everybody. I believe in telling someone privately and then if they continue then cutting ties with them but it doesn’t have to be done publicly.
And because of white supremacy it is best not to publicly say this stuff because it only serves as confirmation bias.

There is a difference between I have a genuine concern for the black community and want to help and I just want a pat on the head from white people. I see Don as wanting that pat on the head from white people. My question is if this is such a major problem in his eyes then what has he been doing prior? Where was the concern before the Martin trial? Like others have said just poor execution on his part.

“There is a difference between I have a genuine concern for the black community and want to help and I just want a pat on the head from white people. I see Don as wanting that pat on the head from white people. My question is if this is such a major problem in his eyes then what has he been doing prior? Where was the concern before the Martin trial? Like others have said just poor execution on his part”

Bingo, he reminds me of the whites that bring up black on black crime ,they don’t care they just bring it up to suit their agenda, but have not done or suggested anything to counter it. Don does the same. People need mentors not lecturers. If don is so concerned then open a camp and be a mentor to black youth like steve Harvey has done. He complains about litter well how about hosting a neighborhood clean up and get the kids involved. Also I notice that in certain areas there is no homeowner association. In a lot of black neighborhoods there is no regulation of how ur yard or neighborhood is supposed to be.Then theres all those abandoned buildings not being used for anything that need to be torn down. If people are held to a higher standard then they may do better.
As for the n word, educate the youth about the history and the context it is still used in, the word’s meaning has not changed since slavery it is still used to describe a black person that is shiftless, bad, lazy,etc as we don’t hear it used as a term of endearment like that n is doing great things, but we hear it used as that n owe me some money. Slavery: n get back to work, its the same thing.

as for staying in school yes that’s important but if he isn’t going to visit black schools or tutoring black youth then he can’t really talk. I have some issue with oprah but at least she did open a school even if she did throw black americans under the bus.

the sagging pants they act like only black ppl do that, I’ve seen whites and females wear their pants that way. I guess everybody just wants to lecture black folks about it because omg those blacks have influenced the innocent white youth to start sagging their pants.

And not having a baby unless u are ready is great too. I don’t think ppl should have kids unless they are ready, but don’t worry don isn’t that why planned parenthood is around and in mostly minority neighborhoods to stop the negroes from having too many kids. not to worry don that is why our population stays almost the same because yes ppl are having kids. smh

I see now. abagond was writing about Don Lemon’s gayness in biographical terms, not as a moral judgement. So he was not faulting Lemon’s homosexuality. Regardless, I still believe abagond is homophobic. He seems much more honest about his sexism, so that’s how I can tell. However, I still think he is sexist. It’s amusing, actually, to see how blind he is towards “isms” in which he is privileged but how sharp he is on racism, where he is clearly not privileged. It’s like he’s an unwitting textbook example of how privilege blinds.

“I see now. abagond was writing about Don Lemon’s gayness in biographical terms, not as a moral judgement. So he was not faulting Lemon’s homosexuality.”

This is not purely biographical so I don’t interpret it that way. It comes off as homophobic. It might have been unintentional consequence of the structure of this post. Or the structure might just be a sneaky homophobic tactic. A dog whistle kinda thing.

@ Vajackster
Don Lemon came out in a very public way. It is part of his story. There are not many openly gay people in his position, so pointing it out I do not think was gratuitous.

But indeed it is QUITE gratuitous (except for some need to insert some homophobic based character flaw). I have to chime in with your other commenters that you come across as decidedly homophobic in your depiction of Don Lemon (and as an extension, homophobic in general). For me, there are 3 main reasons why this impressed me as so:

A. It is not clear how this attribute that you assigned to him has anything to do with your evaluation of him. For example, if you described Obama as an openly gay-friendly straight president (which he has been very public about), how would that be a key relevant factor why he renounced his relationship with his pastor or why he sends drones to bomb Pakistan or why he is very silent about race (stuff you denounce him for)? The only reason why one would surmise that you need to stress that attribute of his is to introduce an inherent character flaw as Bulanik suggested, which is based on your homophobic bias.
(Point: how is the attribute relevant?)

B. We could pick any set of key matters that are public and part of one’s story to describe a person. Why pick the “openly gay” attribute?
To illustrate, we could pick any of several attributes of Obama that are a key part of his story, eg,

– Born in Hawaii
– Biracial child raised primarily by white grandparents
– Indonesian stepfather
– Graduate of prestigious Punahou High School
– Pot smoker in high school and college
– First non-white president of Havard Law Review
– Community Organizer in Chicago’s south side
Etc. etc. etc.

Now, supposed we picked one of his key life story attributes and then denounce him for some reason.
Examples:
1. Obama, who had an Indonesian stepfather and received his childhood education in Indonesia, denounced the pastor he had for 20 years, the one who presided over his marriage, after the Reverend made some public inflammatory remarks which were interpreted as racist and un-American.
–> seems irrelevant.
2. Obama, who had an Indonesian stepfather and received his childhood education in Indonesia, just sent another series of drones to bomb Pakistan and killed 400 muslim children, mostly girls.
–> Seems like you are making some relevant statement – as if somehow his upbringing and family relationships in Indonesia (a majority Muslim country) had some impact on his attitudes about bombing Pakistan (another majority Muslim country) with drones.
3. Obama, a biracial child raised primarily by white grandparents, denounced the pastor he had for 20 years, the one who presided over his marriage, after the Reverend made some public inflammatory remarks which were interpreted as racist and un-American.
–> Now, it seems like you are trying to link a key life story attribute to a behavior later in life that you are denouncing him for.
4. Obama, a biracial child raised primarily by white grandparents, just sent another series of drones to bomb Pakistan and killed 400 muslim children, mostly girls.
–> Seems irrelevant, but perhaps might be interpreted as a factor why he seems so heartless about killing brown people.
5. Obama, who denounced the pastor he had for 20 years, the one who presided over his marriage, just sent another series of drones to bomb Pakistan and killed 400 muslim children, mostly girls.
–> Seems irrelevant, but perhaps might be interpreted as depicting him as some 2-faced liar, ie, a character flaw.
(Point: seems homophobic)

C. The comment that he came out as openly gay (as well as his illegitimate birth and childhood sexual abuse) was made just before the 5 behaviors that you are deriding him for. It seemed as if you doubted that he has any standing to make comments about black men, black families or black communities.
(The attribute is interpreted as a character flaw, or as something contributing to a character flaw, not just a piece of biographical information.)

You are an admitted racist. That is why you often insert “white” and “black” in front of personal labels even if they are really irrelevant to your point. If you insert words like “openly gay” in front of personal labels that are irrelevant to your point, why don’t you just admit that you are decidedly homophobic? Is it a matter of being blind to it, or are you just concerned about offending your readership (even though it comes out loud and clear in posts such as these.)?

“This is not purely biographical so I don’t interpret it that way. It comes off as homophobic. It might have been unintentional consequence of the structure of this post. Or the structure might just be a sneaky homophobic tactic. A dog whistle kinda thing.”

I think you’re missing the point. It was more biographical in this instance, as opposed to say Anderson Cooper, because of the public way Lemon came out. He announced his sexuality on air as par of his book promotion so of course it was a biographical event and it’s even mentioned on his wiki page. A good comparison would be how Ellen came out on her TV show (her comedy show not her talk show).

“Solesearch@ I don’t think discussing these things make black people look like fools. I think if a person feels that way it’s just their own racism manifesting itself. I don’t mean that as an accusation either. We all have racists beliefs.”

Linda says,

I was not saying that merely “discussing” internal issues makes black people look like fools — I mean “how” it is discussed in a public and open forum should be taken into consideration, as I pointed out in my earlier comment:

“and after the recent experience on this board concerning black man/ black women and the whole “nbw” and name calling of black women, I realized I don’t like the look or feel of having “house” business put out for the world to see, view, laugh, and judge.”

when the discussion gets turned into a debasing, heated slagging match (like the one that occurred on this blog) between some of the black men and women concerning “interracial dating” — that discussion was ugly and brought everyone down — the discussion was not meant to entertain and but it did– that minstrel show only confirmed white and other people’s biases against black people.

That is what I mean when I say these discussions need to be done in a way that doesn’t make black people don’t look like “fools” because after witnessing those conversations –to me, it was not a good look and it did not help anyone

having a sense a “shame” and not “losing face” is not a personal racist belief – that’s a standard that most Ethnic groups/cultures have, that seems to be a lost “value” in American society.

that’s why I mentioned that to me, (after listening to him again) Don Lemon only reinforced the negative images of black people that are already in the minds of white America– as mstoogood4yall pointed out, he did not help by sharing his 2 cents in such a public way and at the wrong time too

and I agree, black girls and women need to stop showing their “tatas” and dressing like heauxs — only white girls get to dress like heauxs and still get Respect —

that’s the whole point and problem with these “surface” issues in America– 2 sets of rules in 1 country for 2 sets of people — and only 1 group gets persecuted and shamed for doing what “other” people do.

I meant this post isn’t purely biographical. The primary purpose was to denounce Lemon’s racist talking points. The biographical info was just telling us why we should care about what he says. I don’t see what his being gay has to do with his racism. The structure of this post makes it seem like Abagond wants the readers to connect his homosexuality with his racism.

“ks,
Given our physical reality here of being a minority we need to have our legal rights established and protected and we need economic development in our own communities. I’d lean more toward the latter now as our communities are in economic freefall though it’s tricky as we need the “space” to do so by eliminating things like Stop and Frisk/Prison Industrial Complex and so on but I can’t escape the nagging feeling, given the legal/social gains of the Civil Rights era, that if we can hold fast on that and build a sustainable economic base, we’d be much better off going forward.”

Linda says,

yes, you are right about the economic development — there are community programs out there that try to help, like “micro loans” but they don’t offer the type of support that is necessary — they offer really small amounts of money (like $500-$1000) which can help if the business is a home-based business.

and of course, as we all know, a regular bank loan is for the lucky few.
For immigrant groups, we typically have to pool our resources together in order to help family members and friends set up shop — that’s how it used to be in the black American community as well.

Is it possible for black America to get back to that “community” first mindset — or is being and expressing “individuality” and trying to “get mine” more important?

in short, is it possible for black Americans to say “sometimes I have to do what’s best for the community and not what is best for myself?”

I recently heard that a black owned company called “Carol’s Daughter” may be going on the market to be bought by the top (white-owned) cosmetic firms- L’Oreal, Proctor and Gamble, Estee Lauder, etc. –

the owner, Lisa Price, already sold the company to a private equity firm Pegasus Capital Advisors (I’m not sure what role she is playing)

I’m personally not happy to hear this but does anyone have to the right to expect Carol’s Daughter to not “sell out” — after all, this company is a private company

so the question is, do black-owned companies have any responsibility to the black community?

how can the black community overall get financially stronger, if black-owned companies are willing to sell themselves to white-owned companies — companies that do support their own initiatives and agendas and don’t give back to black American communities?

hypothetical questions but also seems like issues that need to be addressed.

“when the discussion gets turned into a debasing, heated slagging match (like the one that occurred on this blog) between some of the black men and women concerning “interracial dating” — that discussion was ugly and brought everyone down”—Awww the infamous “interracial relationship” thread were some of us (hangs head in shame for contribution) showed our azz.

It is really taking me some time to ponder on how we as black people can discuss certain issues in a manner that allows it to be productive and show a unified front rather than a display of disarray. It is not an easy feat, but I wonder if this is only the type of display that occurs when we discuss ir or is this something that occurs on all manner of discussions?

Don Lemon is really out of touch. He can have his opinions, but does it have to be at Black folks expense. So sad…Black Twitter was having a field day regarding #DonLemonon, #DonLemonShowTitles. He reminds me of D.L Hughley, DL got some type of news show after he berated Black women publicly on some random show. Then DL got a show. Now where is he? maybe Lemon will follow in his footsteps. :-D

^ oh rofl dl hughley I did not know what he said about black women then him getting a show. I just remember I think it was after his show was over that he said some dumb ish about black women and that the only black women he could’ve married was his wife, he was basically saying his wife was the exception and all other black women are screwed up smh.

After Obama threw Rev, Wright under the bus I should have known better. I have no rational defence for my actions. It was pretty much hyped-up wishful thinking. When I hear what H. Rap Brown says, for example, I feel like a fool.

The fact that I brought up Lemon’s sexual orientation twice in a 500-word post is arguably from subconscious bias.

It was certainly not some sneaky trick. If I had thought about it at such a conscious level, I would have left it out completely – since in my experience ANY mention of homosexuality in a post will derail it.

I did see it as important piece of biographical data since he wrote a book, “Transparent”, in which he came out as a gay man and wrote about his sexual abuse as a child.

I said he was “openly gay” in the first sentence because, given the big to-do over Anderson Cooper coming out, I thought it was noteworthy. In ten years it probably won’t be, but in 2013 I figured it still is.

If Lemon is sincere then he is way out of touch – to a degree not believable in a black journalist living in Harlem. For example, he says to “Finish school”, and quotes mile-high statistics that are mainly about white people. He says nothing about all the black public schools that are glorified daycares that he asking many to “finish”. It is “Let them eat cake” stuff. The people it mainly “helps” are the white people who make up most of his audience (= ratings).

I don’t know Mr. Lemon’s political leanings but a black republican is not a sell-out…PERIOD! A Black republican is a true American who has broken away the chains of his white liberal slave master unlike the other 94% of AA.
The 94% have been duped by the democratic party and as a result…….well look at the state of the black community.

Ebonymonroe said
“No one seems to complain about young White rocker guy and piercings, mohawks, tattoos, skinny jeans and scary Black leather. No, for them, it’s their culture, for us, it’s the vindication of institutionalized racism and Black oppression. Stick that in your Black pathologies pipe and smoke it. . . smoke it deep.”

Love the comment – it’s a True statement Ebony, but those losers aren’t getting hired either, they’re just not complaining – they know why “the man” is holding them down – their choice to look like that, they pay the consequences.
.

“when the discussion gets turned into a debasing, heated slagging match (like the one that occurred on this blog) between some of the black men and women concerning “interracial dating” — that discussion was ugly and brought everyone down — the discussion was not meant to entertain and but it did– that minstrel show only confirmed white and other people’s biases against black people.”
…………………………………………………………………………………………
I wholly disagree. Yes, the topic did lead to some very disturbing commentary, however, the vast majority was not like that. Many members of the Black community, who are in interracial marriages, took the time to shine a light on the fact that their marriages developed out of innocent reasoning and happenstance, rather than self hatred, which is often the accusatory position projected by the views of “others.”
There was also mature discussion between members of varying communities about stereotypes, internalized racism, disparities, and fetishization, in the Asian community, as well as the Black community, I actually learned of dynamics in other communities that I was previously unaware of. There was also some interesting discussion on the general state of marriage rates in the Western world at large, as well as the experiences of mixed race individuals who are the product of interracial partnerships. Sadly, other communities are allowed to discuss these things, but oftentimes, when members of the Black community do, and in a dignified manner, it seems to be automatically labeled as that of a “minstrel show.” There was some heated debates about hatred towards members of one’s own group, which eventually led to a dialogue of dispelling a lot of stereotypes that have been floating around for a long time, one of which, inspired Abagond’s post on ” the Black community illegitimacy rate fallacy.”

For the most part, White people are fully aware of the self hatred minstrel show you speak of, it is all over y0utub3, and, you can catch glimpses of it throughout mainstream entertainment. So I disagree that discussing it must be excluded from a blog like “Abagond,” where the topic if often about race and racism, and where internalized racism has actually been covered in entire post topics. Respectfully, I disagree that the “interracial dating thread” was anything like that of the “Tommy Sotomayor thread.”
………………………………………

River said Rob said

“Ebonymonroe said
“No one seems to complain about young White rocker guy and piercings, mohawks, tattoos, skinny jeans and scary Black leather. No, for them, it’s their culture, for us, it’s the vindication of institutionalized racism and Black oppression. Stick that in your Black pathologies pipe and smoke it. . . smoke it deep.”

“Love the comment – it’s a True statement Ebony, but those losers aren’t getting hired either, they’re just not complaining – they know why “the man” is holding them down – their choice to look like that, they pay the consequences.”
………………………………………………………….
Sharina said

@Riverside_Rob

“Actually they are getting hired. Maybe not big wig corps but yea. Also she is not talking about jobs. She is talking about people complaining about them. As per her comment you quoted.”
………………………………………………………………..

Thanks for the compliment. Sadly, the truth is, those “White rocker guys” are getting hired, and they’re certainly not being killed over their attire. People are able to engage in critical thinking when it comes to these expressions of White culture, and form the understanding that those “White rocker guys” are dressed like that after work and on the weekends. Or, they’re dressed like that in their youth, during their college years.

First of all, most of the Black men I know who dress exhibiting their culture/the Hip hop generation, etc, are not going along to job interviews wearing sagging pants. My brother in law owns and runs his own business, for which he wears a formal suit to work. But, after work, you’ll probably catch him in Timberland boots and loose fitted jeans. He runs his own business, he pastors and mentors at his church, and he’s a great, devoted husband and father. But critical thinking seems to be missing in action when it comes to the Black community. It is like Abagond’s thread on “The White racist guide to Black pathologies;” when it comes to “White rocker guys,” it’s, “awww, they’re just young, they’re just expressing their culture, you know I used to be a greaser in leather, when I was young; leave them be.” But with Black men in “urban attire,” it’s, “this is the reason why you’re killed, dehumanized and systematically suffocated. Fix it, or don’t complain. You deserve it and you know it. You’re responsible for your own problems.”

Right. White youth subcultures are just White youth subcultures. Black youth subcultures are “associated with criminality”. They are proof of moral decline. They are the true representation of Authentic Blackness. They are one of the main things holding Black people back.

Wow. Let’s judge White people based on their teenagers. Let’s shine a light on the adolescence of every White person in the media, on the Supreme Court, in Congress, in top business circles. And their children. And their poor. Because that is how you judge people. And let it be done without using the phrases “boys will be boys”, “youthful indiscretion” or “too young to know better.” Instead let’s use the phrases “bad parenting”, “social pathologies”, “moral decline” and “lack of educational objectives”.

After all, it is well-known that White people achieve emotional, moral, cultural and intellectual maturity at age 13. And that the commercialized versions of their youth subcultures, like in music videos, are Authentic Whiteness.

Right, Miley Cyrus is not a representative of every White woman, nor is Britney when she was flashing her vag!na, nor was Christina Aguilera during her “Dirrty days,” nor was Madonna, before, during, after, and at present, a representation of the entire White female population. Eminem, Clown Posse, Marilyn Manson, Gun$ & Roses, Ted Bundy. . . nope, not an actual representation of the entire White male population. Isn’t that strange?

“Ebonymonroe,
So I disagree that discussing it must be excluded from a blog like “Abagond,” where the topic if often about race and racism, and where internalized racism has actually been covered in entire post topics.”

Linda says,

I’m glad you got something out of that thread but you missed my point entirely.

I never said that heated discussions should be “excluded” from Abagond’s blog, nor was I trying to say that discussing “Interracial relationships” should be excluded.

My position is that We all need to discuss issues that hurt black/brown communities amongst ourselves, without slinging and getting down into the mud because we disagree — don’t know about you but I prefer not to be called a “N bedw’nch” because I gave my opinion on any given topic —

and the IR thread was not the first time that this ugliness appeared –it reared it’s ugly head whenever the topic of wm/bw gets brought — like in the BWE thread (which I stopped reading because it got so ratchet)–

This BS that I referred to in my comment was based on the ugliness that began on other threads that had nothing to do with IR relationships but it somehow got brought up and reached it’s conclusion more or less on the IR thread.

I believe that’s why Abagond probably created the IR thread, so that everyone could discuss it in a more appropriate forum and get it out of their systems versus derailing other threads that had nothing to do with IR in the first place.

but like I said, my whole point was that on this blog and elsewhere online, black/brown people should be able to open with each other about issues that affect the community without people being in denial, trying to “poo-poo” things under the carpet, or calling each other “sellouts” and getting ugly about it to the point that it starts to become degrading… that’s my opinion.

Linda, we share the same views. I suppose I’ve become somewhat numb to it. If there is even 25% of legitimate discussion, I now consider that a success. Although, that’s not necessarily a good thing, lol.

I will never watch Don again. He just wants to sell his precious book. Selling out his own people is wrong and making us look worse to white people. They already think we are not good as the worse animal. In 2013, he should move to good old Alabama and see how he is treated even with all his money and his partner.

Yes.
SOME Black people litter and SOME Black people commit crimes and SOME Blacks make dumb choices… society (White Supremacy) loves to hold up these Black people as representative of the WHOLE BODY of Black people – as if ALL Black people are these “some.”

I have to admit my surprise that this is coming from you, a supposedly “codified” black man who claims to understand most things re racism/white supremacy, CONFUSION, logic and victim-hood.

I agree, we need to take responsibility for our behaviors in all things..
But watch out for internalized racism. You more than most should know that we’ve been suffering from & swallowing that standard “blue pill” for hundreds of years, the effects of which don’t magically or instantly disappear – for all involved – overnight.

I hear you JM; but I have high standards for black people; possibly higher than I have for white people. Im a one man NWUC and you better hope I get to you before white people do because once this entire system is fully ‘computerized” (and its well on its way”),

It will be impossible to connect white people to a system of mistreatment based on color.

They’re gonna pull a “Pontious Pilate” on us;

then what are you gonna do?

Im not going to sacrifice myself for black people, and especially not for black women because nature always bats last; and she’s batting 1000 at teaching the lessons people claim can’t be taught.

What am I willing to do FOR black people?

Tell em the truth.

WHY?

Because thats the one constructive behavior I can engage in without depending on the white supremacists support and approval.

Can they still kill me when they want to?

Sure, but then they will be revealing truth about the system of racism white supremacy; which is what I was trying to do all along.

Can they get some non white people to kill me?

Hmmm…?

I say, not if Im effective revealing truth about the system of racism white supremacy.

To sum up, Im not placing all my “chips” on white or black cause that would be gambling;

Im going all in on myself because Im the only person I can really change.