AirForceVet:Lsherm: I'm not sure the results would be any different if you allowed parents from any school district in the country to make the same choice.

I'm sorry, but where were you in the South during the 1960s? Gleam in your daddy's eye, perhaps?

Doesn't matter. The south is still racist, but so is the north. Pretending otherwise is just delusional.

Whites in the north began moving out of cities once forced integration via busing took hold. They self-segregated. So my point stands: I don't think the results would be any different if you allowed parents in any school district in the country to make the same choice.

So in a school with a 62% black population, the black parents chose black teachers for their kids and the white parents chose white teachers for their kids so the classrooms were ultimately divided by the race of the teacher? How is the school culpable (other than it's a stupid idea)? Unless the school fudged the numbers, how is that forced segregation?

impaler:ThisIsntMe: Amazing if it were true. Just doesn't explain all the republican Presidents and the other two Dems before Obama being Southern does it.

Seriously, this is such a retarded non-sequitur, only a Republican could come up with it. It's literally predicated on the fact that the northerners and southerners. And if the proposition that people will be inclined to vote for someone from their region, it benefits the Democrats to run a southern Democrat to fool the moronic southern Republicans.

Fuking Republicans. Ignorant as shat.

Keep insulting others' intelligence as much as you like, but I feel compelled to point out that the bolded parts above don't meet the basic requirements to qualify as English sentences.

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. "

Keep the dream alive.

I guess you fail to realize that the NAACP was founded by Whites, huh? BET is actually Black Entertainment Television which is owned by Viacom and a sister station of MTV now. Almost every other organization you list came to fruition because the general associations would not allow minority members to join their groups. So, using the "free-market" ideals that are espoused and adored by American conservatives, Blacks and others simply started their own organizations to fulfill a demand that was not being met by White groups.

If you want to see those types of organizations disappear, then all you have to do is meet the demand before a "Black" group forms to meet it for you.

Lsherm:TuteTibiImperes: Lsherm: TuteTibiImperes: Now, in the rare cases where there's a legitimately bad teacher or they feel their kid is being underserved, sure, bring that up to the administration.

Riiiiiight.

Exactly right. Most teachers are hard working, dedicated, well-trained professionals. There are some bad apples as in any profession, but they aren't in any way shape or form the rule.

Given the low salaries that most teachers earn (and save your stories about the ridiculous outliers that the anti-union crowd likes to dredge up, they're just that, ridiculous outliers not in any way representative of the whole) and the very large amount of work it takes to get that salary, there are much easier professions for slackers to earn their livings in.

Unionized public school teachers have a lower firing rate than any other profession.

It's not that there aren't good teachers, it's that it's impossible to fire bad ones, so they stick around.

Being able to enjoy a now all-to-uncommon level of job security does not mean that that there is a higher level of bad teachers. In most districts it takes several years before you can earn tenure, so the bad ones are eliminated fairly early on. It's not a profession that tends to draw those unwilling to work. It requires a degree, continuing education, and a lot of work for not a lot of money.

Again, sure, there are some bad apples, but that's true of any job. Those don't in any way represent the profession as a whole.

Disallowing choice and turning charter schools into general enrollment schools fed from the district feeder patterns would help redistribute the talent and the socioeconomic backgrounds of the students throughout the district. The end result would be the currently failing schools getting more attention and help.Haha, the "choice" folks WANT those schools to go in the dumpster. Eventually they can wipe out the entire public school system and turn everything private so rich people can make more money.

trappedspirit:Wow, the Troy School District of Alabama is now representing all Southern parents? Congratulations on demonstrating how much of a bigot you are while pointing out bigots. Deserves the irony tag for submitter.

actually as someone who lived in Selma, Alabama, the segration for the last decade, is totally african american.

TuteTibiImperes:Lsherm: TuteTibiImperes: Now, in the rare cases where there's a legitimately bad teacher or they feel their kid is being underserved, sure, bring that up to the administration.

Riiiiiight.

Exactly right. Most teachers are hard working, dedicated, well-trained professionals. There are some bad apples as in any profession, but they aren't in any way shape or form the rule.

Given the low salaries that most teachers earn (and save your stories about the ridiculous outliers that the anti-union crowd likes to dredge up, they're just that, ridiculous outliers not in any way representative of the whole) and the very large amount of work it takes to get that salary, there are much easier professions for slackers to earn their livings in.

Pacfanweb:Funny how people are piling on white folks, but fail to see that the all-black classes were that way because THEIR parents wanted it that way.

Probably because they, or someone in their family (civil rights "movement" wasn't that long ago) was directly affected by the inbred, backwards, morans who get drunk or high on "religion", gang up with their buddies and do shiat they wouldn't do in front of their mother.

Remember the "experiment" one of the networks did not too long after 9/11 by sending someone dressed in tradition Arab garb to one of the NASCAR races at Talladega? Absolutely nothing happened. Treated the same as everyone else at a crowded event. Not even a holler from "someone in the crowd".

Dudes, it's Alabama. A LA BA MA. It is not a paragon of racial tolerance. What did you expect? It is the most redneck state in the nation. Alabama and Georgia have knockdown drag-out fights over who is the most redneck and racist. This is not at all surprising.

While walking through a large hospital, two visiting doctors were speaking Spanish to each other (I was about 20 feet behind them). A very very fat woman huffing down the hall towards us heard them and started screaming that they should speak English if they "wanted to stay here."

Another incident. I was going to deliver something to an elderly lady in a rough part of Birmingham. She asked me point blank if I was white. When I told her I was she said I should find someone black to deliver it because she wouldn't want me to get hurt in her neighborhood.

slayer199:So in a school with a 62% black population, the black parents chose black teachers for their kids and the white parents chose white teachers for their kids so the classrooms were ultimately divided by the race of the teacher? How is the school culpable (other than it's a stupid idea)? Unless the school fudged the numbers, how is that forced segregation?

FTA:The complaint further alleges that the school acted deliberately in segregating the races, even denying requests; "In a few instances the Troy City School District disregarded requests by Caucasian parents to place their child with African-American teachers."

Lsherm:Doesn't matter. The south is still racist, but so is the north. Pretending otherwise is just delusional.

Whites in the north began moving out of cities once forced integration via busing took hold. They self-segregated. So my point stands: I don't think the results would be any different if you allowed parents in any school district in the country to make the same choice.

I don't care if people in the North are racist. I hold my fellow white Southerns to a much higher bar to achieve. And, pointing out that the North has racists too or African-American organizations have "black" in their titles are all whining little kids' excuses, i.e. "Johnny does it so why can't I? Waaaa." Grow the fark up!

My fellow white Southerns have a great history of keeping Africans enslaved, that even includes starting a bloody civil war to preserve and extend their slavery heritage across our growing Union. When, Thank God Almighty, they lost that war, did they admit they were mistaken, become better Americans in how they treated their former slaves? Of course not. It took over 100 years for the federal government to intervene and end racial segregation "officially." But many pockets still exist in Old Dixie, especially with how the South goes solid Republican, having evolved into the white man party instead of the Party of Lincoln.

So quit making piss poor excuses for white Southerns being racist asshats. They should be setting the example for America in race relations, especially if they insist they are Christians. White Southerns just haven't dug themselves out of their own hatred enough yet, IMHO.

Mock26:If I remember correctly UCLA allows for segregated graduation ceremonies, so this is just prepping the kids for life at a major university.

I was just going to snark , but since my wife is a Bruin I decided to spend a full 30 seconds googling this. Turns out this was a talking point in the echo chamber in 2007, but is untrue - surprise! Everybody has the same commencement. Then you get your actual physical degree at your department. There are also various Student association celebrations, which aren't graduation ceremonies.http://www.commencement.ucla.edu/schedule.cfm

demaL-demaL-yeH:In 2004, when everyfarkingbody knew just how incredibly stupid, incompetent, corrupt, and farcical his administration was./America has a deep and wide masochistic streak when people are afraid.

Home of the brave.

Some people like to say "freedom isn't free." And yet they're perfectly content to believe exceptionalism is.

Debeo Summa Credo:Lsherm: AirForceVet: Lsherm: I'm not sure the results would be any different if you allowed parents from any school district in the country to make the same choice.

I'm sorry, but where were you in the South during the 1960s? Gleam in your daddy's eye, perhaps?

Doesn't matter. The south is still racist, but so is the north. Pretending otherwise is just delusional.

Whites in the north began moving out of cities once forced integration via busing took hold. They self-segregated. So my point stands: I don't think the results would be any different if you allowed parents in any school district in the country to make the same choice.

This. Everyone does this, north or south, red or blue.

Um..so lemme get this straight: the black parents also wanted black teachers, but only the white people were racist.

Pacfanweb:Funny how people are piling on white folks, but fail to see that the all-black classes were that way because THEIR parents wanted it that way.

That. In my freshman English class a few years back, one of our coursebooks was a handy little guide on multicultural education. It had some great ideas, and it was honestly fun, brainstorming ideas on how to help younger kids in the classroom. Right up until we hit an essay going on about how colored children would benefit most from teachers who "look like them" because they're the only ones who can "understand their culture."

Note: "Southern", as used in this section, refers to members of Congress from the eleven states that made up the Confederate States of America in the American Civil War. "Northern" refers to members from the other 39 states, regardless of the geographic location of those states.

Debeo Summa Credo:Lsherm: AirForceVet: Lsherm: I'm not sure the results would be any different if you allowed parents from any school district in the country to make the same choice.

I'm sorry, but where were you in the South during the 1960s? Gleam in your daddy's eye, perhaps?

Doesn't matter. The south is still racist, but so is the north. Pretending otherwise is just delusional.

Whites in the north began moving out of cities once forced integration via busing took hold. They self-segregated. So my point stands: I don't think the results would be any different if you allowed parents in any school district in the country to make the same choice.

DNRTFA. Kinda wish I could choose my kids classmates eliminating the ones with criminal records and those who can't pass a drug test (there's bunch of them). Years ago I was told "Pre-K will help your child with social skills". But what if your child is surrounded by former crack babies and stupid kids.

jaytkay:Is this the thread where white people gripe about the racial prejudice and indignity they have suffered over many decades?

/ Yes// Yes it is

Is it?

Point to an example of that. Instead it seems like another thread where people point fingers at the South and claim it's racist while all the time ignoring the fact that it's not nearly as racist as where they're from.

Actually, if you research it for the last 20 years many african americans are moving back to the south from the north because of better schools, neighborhoods, and the ability to live in a more "black" place.

Hell, sixty minutes did a special on it almost ten years back.

I am multicultural. Black, Colombian, Italian and jewish ancestry. And the only time anyone ever asked me about the ethnic background was up north on the west coast.

1. West Coast"you sure are light skinned for a mexican." I learned that if you are latino in Cali, you are a beaner by default.2. Philadelphia " yo i heard you kicking that spanish bro, i like those boricuas."

Let me see here:Separate is still not equal.Fourteenth Amendment is still the standard for equal treatment of persons.Civil Rights Act is still the law of the land.Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka, Brownbeckistan is settled law.

12349876:Pacfanweb: Funny how people are piling on white folks, but fail to see that the all-black classes were that way because THEIR parents wanted it that way.

Which is exactly what the people who created this policy wanted to happen.

So they created the policy because they knew the black parents would segregate themselves and they wanted them to do that?

That's...racist? I'm honestly not sure, but I'm white so I feel guilty anyway.

I guess it's racist they wanted the classes to end up segregated, if that is true....but apparently so did the black parents since that's what they chose for their kids. Should I be offended here or not?

Lsherm:TuteTibiImperes: Now, in the rare cases where there's a legitimately bad teacher or they feel their kid is being underserved, sure, bring that up to the administration.

Riiiiiight.

Exactly right. Most teachers are hard working, dedicated, well-trained professionals. There are some bad apples as in any profession, but they aren't in any way shape or form the rule.

Given the low salaries that most teachers earn (and save your stories about the ridiculous outliers that the anti-union crowd likes to dredge up, they're just that, ridiculous outliers not in any way representative of the whole) and the very large amount of work it takes to get that salary, there are much easier professions for slackers to earn their livings in.

I can't see this being a good idea. Parents should be involved in their kids' schooling, but that involvement should be helping with homework, communicating with the teachers about student progress, following up with discipline from school, and attending parent/teacher conferences to get an idea about how their kids are progressing and any issues that they should be aware of. Basically, parents need to trust the teachers' and school's judgment and reinforce that at home, and take a cooperative role, not a meddlesome one.

Now, in the rare cases where there's a legitimately bad teacher or they feel their kid is being underserved, sure, bring that up to the administration. However, far too often parents go into snowflake mode instead of trust the judgment of the professionals at the school.

RexTalionis:slayer199: So in a school with a 62% black population, the black parents chose black teachers for their kids and the white parents chose white teachers for their kids so the classrooms were ultimately divided by the race of the teacher? How is the school culpable (other than it's a stupid idea)? Unless the school fudged the numbers, how is that forced segregation?

FTA:The complaint further alleges that the school acted deliberately in segregating the races, even denying requests; "In a few instances the Troy City School District disregarded requests by Caucasian parents to place their child with African-American teachers."

" The school allows parents to choose their child's teachers and classmates. "

This seems like a total sham "plan" anyway...... how does this even work? Do they all write down their preferences, and then they picked a random lottery to see who got first choice? Because, ok, lets say the 3rd grade classes, there is one teacher out of the five at the school lets say that is much better than the others... I'm sure all the parents wanted their kids in her class (regardless of color). So, some parents are going to have to go with their 2nd, 3rd, etc choice.

As far as picking classmates... were the black parents primarily picking black classmates as well? Or was it somehow the school board trying to "lead" the issue and push to same race classrooms, despite who people picked?

The damning statement though is: "In a few instances the Troy City School District disregarded requests by Caucasian parents to place their child with African-American teachers." Now, as I stated, the whole system seems odd to me anyway, since there is no way everyone's requests can be met like that. It has to be a bit more overt than "I didn't get the teacher we wanted"... that has to have happened a lot. But, if basically all cross-race matches were "denied", then, you have a pretty damning case.