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white women’s tears

White women’s tears is one of the main ways White American women have of derailing any talk of racism, particularly their own racism. It is part of a more general pattern of white people making their feelings matter more than the truth – something you see too in the tone argument, for example.

White women’s tears can come about in different ways, but here is the classic scene:

A white woman says something racist.

A black woman points it out. (It could be any person of colour but it works best against black women for reasons given below.)

The white woman says she is not racist and starts crying.

For added effect the white woman can run out of the room.

Other whites, particularly white men, come to the aid and comfort not of the wronged black woman but of the racist white woman!

The black woman, the wronged party, is made to seem like the mean one in the eyes of whites.

The white woman continues to believe she is not racist.

Tables turned! It works so well that it is hard not to see the tears as a cheap trick.

This is more than just a woman using tears to get her way. It is built on a set of White American ideas about race, listed here in no particular order:

It works best when these two stereotypes can be applied:

The Sapphire stereotype – black women as mean, angry and disagreeable

The Pure White Womanstereotype – white women as these special, delicate creatures who need to be protected at all costs. It is what drives the Missing White Woman Syndrome – and, in the old days, lynchings.

The r-word: to be called a “racist”, however gently and indirectly, is a terrible, upsetting thing for white people – far worse than, you know, being a racist.

White people and their feelings are the centre of the known universe.

Hearts of stone: meanwhile whites seem to have a very, very hard time putting themselves in the shoes of people of colour.

Moral blindness: white people think they are Basically Good, therefore if someone points out something bad about them it must be out of hatred.

White solidarity: whites are afraid to stand up against racism, particularly when they are with other whites. Also, they do not like it when you call other whites racists – they seem to take it personally for some reason.

All these things work together to help create the scene laid out above. It is why it works best for young, good-looking white women and why black women’s tears have nowhere the same effect in a white setting.

In my own experience White American women are by far the hardest to talk to about racism. Even if you get past all their defences and they believe what you are saying, they act like they are going to cry. So you either stop or you push on and are made to look mean and heartless.

White women, the delicate creatures that they are, attend a lynching in Indiana, 1930.

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As I’ve written before, Abagond, the cornerstone of white supremacy IS the white female. White women’s tears are effectively a ‘call to arms’ to noble white men to put some ‘uppity Negro’ in his place, or to comfort them from the masculine wrath of the angry Black female.

I think part of the issue is possibly related to how teh world is constructed.

Its a man’s world as James Brown sung.

So when you read the history books you are in essence reading White countries, societies, men, but not White women per se in the role of racism/White Supremacy etc.

Some of the more Black radical scholars and also People of Colour feminists too would suggest that even without doubt that the White female is oppressed. Her fight is in essence to gain equality with her ‘White male counterpart’ in the system of ‘White Supremacy’, rather than to tear that system, with the White males therein, to allow iin males who have been designated as ‘Non-White’, and also other females who are designated as Non-White

So it is in this respect the White women has not been blamed specifically for any of the atrocities of the 500 years, and I am sure that some do not see themselves as part of that since history is a male construct.

So in some senses it is ‘natural’ some White females may have certain ‘defence mechanism’ when dealing with this issue.

Great post!! They are far from these delicate creatures they’re made out to be. White women’s tears are a more cunning way of garnering support that has nothing whatsoever to do with being hurt, or being the wronged party. It’s attention seeking and self centred and panders to a gullible world that laps it up. Frankly I’m sick of it, worth mentioning that this is a phenomenon that isn’t limited to racism.
I’ve seen the water works come out over something as small as jumping a queue. Best to let the poor lass get served first than listen to her sniffling at the back because you see, being told to do the right thing is mean and hurts her feelings!
Pathetic.
SMDH

You know what? I always thought white men are the most racist as a group, but now I am not so sure. White women might be worse, simply because of the fact they see themselves as oppressed* and it’s harder for them to realize they have privilege.

*I’m not saying women (or all colours) aren’t oppressed. Sexism is still going strong in the world, but that doesn’t excuse anyone’s racism.

As for tears, I do believe many women learned to get what they want using sympathy (and, more than anything, males feeling uncomfortable) by crying. On the other hand, crying is healthy and I don’t think people should try not to cry.

But. If you are doing bad things, princess, expect others to criticize you and point where you did wrong, or even *gasp* get angry with you. That is ok. We all know you’re taught to always smile and be polite and nice, but princess, politeness is not a priority- being a decent human being is! I know it’s more lovely to be polite than rude- but politeness is just a shell, it hides your true feelings, which can be really ugly and rotten and well, basically wrong.

It is your fault- not others’, princess- if they don’t play by these “rules”, if they don’t cover their true feelings under the shell of smiling and politeness. And yes, I know you believe we should all get along, and I know you believe you’d listen what they have to say… Only if they say it more nicely. But guess what, girl? You’re not making these rules, and other people don’t exist just so you can have your precious feelings intact and in short, you are not the center of the world, or a race discussion. It’s not about you girl and whether you felt hurt and insulted by someone pointing at your mistakes.

PS-All being said, I must admit I did cry a few times when it comes to racism. Some images on Jim Crow museum and some posts here did make me cry.

the photo of the lynching is so surreal to me. it’s so hard for me to accept that it’s a photograph of an actual moment that REALLY happened. the people all look so chill, so relaxed. they have utterly no concern that they are being photographed!

The picture of the people especially the two women with their slight smiles watching the displayed bodies of those murdered young men is sickening.

PS-All being said, I must admit I did cry a few times when it comes to racism. Some images on Jim Crow museum and some posts here did make me cry.

I was a young child when the movie Roots came out. My parents were immigrants and while they knew basic English, they actually learned English by watching tv. So many scenes stood out in my mind which made me cry: the brutal whipping of the main character, the forced separation of the main character from his daughter, the rape of his daughter, and the horrible mistreatment of the slaves. My young self didn’t know what was going on, but I knew what happened in that movie was wrong.

I posted my story on here about this young girl (she happened to be white) who called my full lips the N-word in the Women with the most beautiful lips post.

I have full lips and I’ve been told it was my best feature. I was one of the few visible minorities in my school and I was teased because of my lips and mostly my eyes.

In hs, I had one particularly nasty girl, a classmate, insult my lips when I applied lipstick in front of a mirror. She used the N-word when referring to my lips.

I was so offended that I spit into her face. And as a result, I had detention for a whole week. It was so worth it! lol!

Did the white girl get detention? How was she dealt with?

Abagond:

The white girl also received detention, but for only three days while I had a whole week. Apparently, spitting in someone’s face was considered more grievous than making a racial remark about one’s lips.

One thing, though, during my detention with that girl, I asked for permission to use the girls’ washroom. As I slowly made my way past her desk, I dropped a note. She read it and we exchanged looks and there was this understanding. I wrote that the next time she made a comment about me, I’d do more than simply spitting. From that moment on, she stayed away from me.

I forgot to add that this girl cried when the teachers/principal confronted her about her racial remark regarding my lips. She cried so much so that I’m certain her detention was downgraded from a week to three days because of it.

ugh! Leigh! What a goddamn rotten to the core thing you had to endure with that creep girl and the dumb high school administrators. The nerve of this girl, behaving as though she is shell-shocked??!?

She cried the entire time she was being questioned. At the end of it, one teacher handed her a tissue to wipe her tears and even gave her a light pat on the back to console her! I couldn’t believe it! The faces of the teachers and principal involved said it all.

But, you really shined through the whole thing and put this cretin girl in her place. Simply awesome! 🙂

Thanks. 🙂 I’m not a violent person, but this girl made me see red and I nearly hit her on the spot.

This is more than just a woman using tears to get her way. It is built on a set of White American ideas about race,

Shouldn’t the word “sex” also be attached to this? Although a black woman’s tears do not have the same effect when a white woman is the opposition (of course I’ve never seen this scenario), I can personally attest to my tears having an effect on men (both black and white). Additionally if the white woman were a white man who cried, not as many people would come to the rescue. My less than five foot sister actually made a big six foot, three hundred pound white guy cry, while she was at work. Apparently he wanted to go off on someone about something that happened to his car and he choose her. He couldn’t, however, intimidate her, and burst into tears. The other men on the premises, the majority of which were white, chewed him out for crying.

I can say that when I get into arguments I sometimes start to cry out of anger and or frustration. It is the equivalent of a guy raising his voice. My voice, which is pretty low naturally, gets quieter and quieter when I am pissed, likely because I try to harness my anger instead of blowing up. I can honestly say, however, I have never cried during a conversation when I was in the wrong, but I am more willing to take responsibility for my actions than most. It might take me a minute to own up, but I do eventually.

I hope my intentions aren’t misunderstood when I ask what was the root for your offense when the class mate used the N word to describe your lips. Was it the actual slur, or the slur in reference to your physical features?

abagond,
Thanks for posting this very important, insightful topic. My sister and I have been discussing the NEGATIVE role that White female privilege has played in our relationship lives.

It’s been interesting to note how BW in American are/have been HISTORICALLY mistreated as a result of, not just slavery, but White female privilege/White women’s tears.

In American society the WW has ALWAYS been placed at the top of the beauty hierarchy while the BW has ALWAYS been placed at the bottom. This is the MAIN reason that White women’s tears are/continue to be such an effective TOOL of MANIPULATION against BW, in particular.
From the very beginning, BW in America have been made to feel like EVERYTHING about us is WRONG (our nose, lips, bodies, hair, etc.) because they don’t conform to White female features.

Today when many WW try to mimic (via lip, butt, breast implants) physical features that are naturally associated with BW, and they are PRAISED/ADMIRED for them even though BW have ALWAYS been PUT DOWN for these same features.

The most obvious NEGATIVE consequence of White female privilege/White women’s tears relates to how BW are/have been treated in the relationship realm.
In my life I have seen BW suffer the TRASHING of their HUMANITY/DIGNITY/FEMININITY by men of ALL RACES, while WW are treated as if they’re the UNIVERSAL prize for men of ALL RACES.
American WM/NON-BM have been taught that loving/dating/marrying BW is akin to a CRIME, while loving/dating/marrying WW is perceived as being ACCEPTABLE/COMMENDABLE. This is an important, OVERLOOKED CONTRIBUTOR to the UNACCEPTABLY high singleness rate among BW (in comparison to WW and other NON-BW).

I think it’s especially OFFENSIVE to see MANY BM helping to reinforce the WARPED/SICK thinking behind White female supremacy/White women’s tears by ATTACKING the HUMANITY/DIGNITY/FEMININITY (and NOT DEFENDING the HONOR) of the women that most resemble their MOTHERS/GRANDMOTHERS/SISTERS.

Given the prevalence of White female supremacy/White women’s tears, it’s not surprising that WW in America believe they are “better” than BW SOLELY because they are White.

Oh my goodness, how many temp jobs have I been let go from because of a ‘white’ womans tears!

1st ex.: young white female asks, “do you really like your hair like that? (braids;early 90’s)
I reply yes; she wrinkles up face and states that braids are disgusting, me, (stupidly and innocently), write her a note that my hair is not her business, stop asking me about my hair etc.
The next morning, she is sitting in her car with her husband/boyfriend ‘crying’; I go into office, am told my services are no longer needed, because “we do’nt do that here’. Am told that I frightened her and to leave the premises immediately.

2nd ex.: young college coed asks to meet with me to discuss her grade; I say sure, when do you want to meet, she snaps at me, ” tomorrow”. I say ok, puzzled at her attitude. I get call from Dean, that said student, wants to meet with both the Dean and I because, students is ‘afraid’ to meet with me alone! This after being in my class for 21/2 months with no ‘visible’ problem. The hell….. She comes to meeting, ‘teary-eyed’. huh? I tell her that her current behavior is disengenuous, troubling and dishonest. The Dean looks like, are YOU crazy! lol!

3rd ex: during the final days of the Bush administration, (‘W’), I make comments how I look forward to another administration, as this one was troubling. Female student, begins to cry, out loud in class, that I should’nt say things about the president. I probably should not have as politics in the classroom can be troublesome. However, this was a speech course, and a student had just given their speech on something related (I forget what). Anyway, this white female cried her eyes out. The whole class was like ‘yikes’!. A young black female student, asked her what in the world was her problem; I asked to crying girl to leave the class room and compose herself. She gathers her things, and flees. ah, yes, the tears of the white female.

Oyan,
Thanks for your excellent examples of how WW’s tears lead/have led to RACIST, ANTI-BW treatment in the work and academic worlds.

I hope that as more people are made aware of this phenomenon, WW who engage in this DISGUSTING, MANIPULATIVE behavior will be called on it.

I’m happy to see that the Italians didn’t allow Amy Knox to use the White women’s tears MANIPULATION to get away with murder.
She will have to use LEGITIMATE means to PROVE her innocence (and MAYBE shorten/eliminate her sentence) rather than this overused American trick.

I recently read a book called “Trojan Horse: Death of a Dark Nation” and one of the chapters was about the “Dead White Women’s Club”, which spoke about how the attractive white woman/girl gets so much attention from the press, while the disappearances/murders of non-white women and children are barely spoken of.

I hope my intentions aren’t misunderstood when I ask what was the root for your offense when the class mate used the N word to describe your lips.

Hey, it’s all good. 😀

Was it the actual slur, or the slur in reference to your physical features?

It was the actual slur that set me off. What she said was very wrong. When I was a couple of years younger, I had white children making fun of my eyes. They called me every Asian ethnic slur they could think of while pulling their damn eyes. I didn’t know what to do back then especially defend myself. Now that I was older, I wasn’t going to let these folks get away with their sh!t. That girl knew full well what she had intended.

abagond- Great analysis of white women’s tears. Have you written post about missing white women syndrome?
lynn+oyan- It’s sickening that you had to experience that. Maybe this why I have always “rolled my eyes” whenever I read or discussed the so-called oppression of ww.
laramona- great points as usual
jujube- that sounds like a great book

I love your blog..but it has highlighted something very important and worrisome to me…I am a 30 year old married African woman with a beautiful son and two degrees working on a third. I have lived in the UK now for 7 years…I have no white friends. None. I work with them…but are not friends with them…to make matters worse, for a long time, while I was single, I never saw white men…I literally could not tell you if a white guy who just walked past me is cute or not because I simply did not see him. I even schooled with them and yet. Yes. I am now very worried that I might be the worst kind of racist and not even realise it.

See, now I can understand crying tears of frustration or sadness when you witness an injustice. I have shed tears myself after reading stories about racist incidents that happen (all too often) in this country. But, I do not understand the concept of crying when you ARE CLEARLY IN THE WRONG!!!

And as for Elizabeth, she seems to be trying to act as if the word (used by Black people) upsets her so much it brings her to tears, but what she really seems to be crying about it the fact that SHE is not allowed to use that word!

Dalaran- I had to check out the video you mentioned. Here it is …. notice how Vanessa William’s concerns are TOTALLY brushed off, as if she has NO IDEA what she is talking about, and how one of the women HAS TO make the point that the kid in the movie was being treated poorly by OTHER BLACK KIDS, NOT WHITE KIDS! THAT IS WHAT THE MOVIE CHOOSES TO SHOW!!! That movie was MADE so white people can sit around and pat themselves on the back for being so generous to Black people!

Thanks for this post if I had £1 for everytime this has happend to me or my friends I would be one rich girl.

I was 7 at the time and a white girl cut me and my friend’s hair off mine was a a little bit but you could see the uneveness but my friend was missing half a big twist and of course the girl who cut her hair started crying after we were yelling at her and we had made a half assed apology and we had to apologise for yelling at her WTF!!!

If anyone should be crying it should be me you said something racist yet you are crying that I called you out on you crap saying “I didn’t mean it like that.”

i’ve seen this happen before myself. I don;t know why some white women think they are exempt from racist thinking and I get tired of some white women acting like they’re on par with bp when it comes to oppression and discrimination. Some of them think just because they are women that they can identify w/ the plight of blacks (usually black men only) and somehow that makes them exempt from racist thoughts…it doesn’t. White women get the benfits of white privilege too and on top of that, I can quote a story about a lynching when I find it, basically the ww turned on her black lover to save face and the guy gets lynched after seeing eachother for a prolonged, consensual relationship.

in terms of the view debate on the N-word…sighs. I get really tired of some wp crying over not being able to use the n-word or having an issue w/ bp using it amongst eachother. I personally do not use the word, but would i be more offended if it came from a wp than a bp…hell yes.

I don’t understand what are some wp losing by not being able to use the n-word, while its more accepted amongst blacks…what would these type of wp be losing? That is why i get irritated w/ the “if i can’t say it, you can’t say it either,” mentality. Personally, i wasn’t raised to use the word and I can’t even recall when i have refered to other blacks as n*ggas, but if a bp says its, i get it and can tolerate it moreso than a wp because history has not been equal. the history of the word being used from other blacks vs. whites is not equal. that’s all there is to it.

Also, i get so sick of hearing “crash,” used as a reference everytime someone talks about racism. that movie sucked. People think just cause they watched a damn movie “crash,” they have some special insight into racism…whatever.

another thing that offends me as bp. I was not raised to use the word, i generally do not refer to other blacks that way…as a matter of fact, its a rare occurence for me to use it at all. So I am offended by the fact that SOME wp think because its used in hiphop then somehow all bp must use it in that context and that is not true for me and most of the other black women and men i associate with. Its rare i have NEVER NEVER heard my father call another bp a nigga…i have never heard him greet another bm and say “wassup my nigga.” never. so i take offense to that assumption being made. i don’t even really hear my contemporaries (my brothers/cousins) use it as often as some WP would make it seem we use it…so i don’t like that.

White women get the benfits of white privilege too and on top of that, I can quote a story about a lynching when I find it, basically the ww turned on her black lover to save face and the guy gets lynched after seeing eachother for a prolonged, consensual relationship.

What a coldhearted, cowardly, evil b*tch. How horrible for that poor man.

i also get irritated with the entitlement complex that some white women have. I remember when I was at college, we have to take the bus to get to the nearest market and its in a predominately black area. I went there to get my grocercies and our bus that comes from school was a little late. There were alot of bw,bm and black children around. These two white girls from the school were waiting too and they kept talking about how bad an area this way. one of them said if I had my car…this would be the type of area where I need to club-lock it. They were huddled together, holding on to eachother for dear life. They were acting as if people were shooting eachother up or something. Mind you, there was no nonsense going on. Just some everyday average people shopping around christmas time with their kids. But because they were black and it was a lower-income area, I guess in these particular girls minds that made the area dangerous…

Besides the fact that they were stereotyping and acting racist (in my opinion) i was irritated by the fact that when our bus finally came…they run over to it shouting “OUR BUS IS HERE,” as if the calvary was swooping in to rescue them from some hell or someone was coming on a white horse to come rescue the poor,defenseless, white women from the rough, hard, world of the black. Got on my damn nerves…some people are so used to being on pedestal and having walls and walls of protection it just gets annoying and ridiculous.

A ww…goes missing you can rest assured there will be a nationwide search to rescue her. The ww’s black husband cheats on her, she can rest assured society will turn against the bm and come to resuce her from that ‘black brute.’ A bw goes missing, we’re damn lucky to get a minute or so of press attention, no matter how upstanding and innocent-acting she was. A bw gets cheated on by her husband people blame her and her ‘attitude’ for him cheating on her…ha! it kills me!

i also would add to the post abagond, how bm are defensless from the tears of ww as well. if a wm says or does something racist, atleast a bm has the option of calling him out, when it was ww you can’t really do that. I remember my brother was away at college and these two drunken white girls (the gf and her friend of his roomate) came into the apartment and one called my brother a nigger in her drunken state. My brother couldn’t do anything because he was in an area where if he had stepped out of line even just a little bit, she could have called the cops and I’m sure charges would be pressed and it made into some big thing. It’s just ridiculous, and she basically got away with saying that and no one will ever be able to call her on her racism…because she’s a white woman

The tears of white women reminded me of the case of a woman named Susan Smith. In 1994, she murdered her two little boys by leaving them strapped in their carseats and letting the car roll into a lake. Before the authorities found her children’s bodies, she cried (crocodile tears, mind you) on tv that a BM had carjacked her while her children were sleeping in the back. I studied her face and I knew she was lying from the getgo. How would it be possible for a BM to drive around with two white kids in the back of the car without being noticed? Oh, I remember how the white public ate it up. They believed her because of her fake, tearful pleas. The police were searching for a BM suspect when they had the murderer right under their nose all along.

the photo of the lynching is so surreal to me. it’s so hard for me to accept that it’s a photograph of an actual moment that REALLY happened.

even worst, they frequently took these pictures and made them into actual postcards that got mailed around the US like some kind of sick jokes. Yes…a picture of a lynched human being was made into a damn postcard…

great example leigh.
I have another example: I hate to bring this b.s. up again but, Taylor Swift. Damn, I got irritated everybody was up in arms acting like Kanye West jumped up on the stage, exposed himself and then attacked Taylor or something. Was it that serious that it warranted commentary from the president of the united states??? Are you serious?? Who the f*ck cares? Kanye is always an azz with everyone, but because of the pure white woman stereotype I have to hear about that bull sh*t non-stop for weeks… and she got sent flowers from Janet Jackson and some nonsense.

There are hundreds of bw being raped and mutilated daily in the DRC and the media spends more time talking about taylor swift and the president comments on it??? Pssh…i bet if you took a survey more people would know more about the Taylor Swift incident than the war in DRC…pathetic

i hate to bring yet another personal example up. But, a time when I had to deal w/ the tears of a ww was on a school trip. My friends and I had an argument and my two girlfriends who happen to be white ganged up on me (for some stupid reason) and stopped talking to me. I’m walking around by myself after dinner, tears dripping down. People just stare, no one gives a damn. Two days later my friend decides to try and grab my attention because she finally wants to talk to me. I told her to let go of my arm and I walked away. She goes off and starts crying. Later, someone comes up to me and tells me she’s crying, I should talk to her blah blah blah. I ended up going over and talking and she DID apologize after that. But I can’t help but notice the different response and sympathy her tears received and mine didn’t. Now she’s my friend, but I did get irritated by the fact that she doesn’t even realize her privilege and I’m sure she doesn’t realize the response she received versus mine. I’m not personally blaming her, but its’ true our tears do NOT have the same value and i’m sure she’ll never understand that unfortunately.

You know what? I always thought white men are the most racist as a group, but now I am not so sure. White women might be worse, simply because of the fact they see themselves as oppressed* and it’s harder for them to realize they have privilege.

I thought so to but this isnt the case. What you have said is spot on. There are racist white men, of course, but the fact that they(as a group) are in the spotlight and the “poster children” for who is racist people often assume this, when they should be looking behind white men, looking at his women. Like Menelik Charles said one of the primary driving forces of white supremacy and the violence that comes of it is protection of white women from non-white men, particularly black men.

Things are changing now. I dont see as many young white men “white knighting” to protect the “sanctity” of the white womanhood.

Whats sad is desptie all of this I hear black men say white women are less racist than white men, on average. Which is curious to me because racist parents dont teach prejudice to their sons and allow their daughters to be “colorblind”. Not only that but numerous studies have shown us that women tend to have stronger racial preferences than men when it comes to relationships AND white women are the most endogamous group in the United States.

@ Will

One name comes to mind: Elisabeth Hasslebeck.

Absolutely. Whoopi was only speaking truth when that clown started boo-hooing about “Why cant my child say the N word, we are all the same. Whoopi you’re wrong. We all live in the same country!”
I just about threw up.

According to eyewitness accounts of the aftermath of some of the lynchings, spectators (including those delicate flowers of white womanhood in attendance) were virtually knocking each other down to get a body parts from the murdered Black man as grisly keepsakes….

Slightly off topic but I also recall reading that when some of the (white) people involved in the Donner party fiasco became stranded with no food in the Sierra Nevada that, though they ate the whites among them who had died natural deaths, they outright murdered their two Native American guides so they could chow down on them.

The are other similar incidents that also come to mind.

In the tiny minds of these kinds of whites, their victims are not human — not realllly human, anyway, so it’s easy for them to commit such acts of depravity and still sleep well at night.

I normally don’t reply much to posts and use them to interrogate my own privilege, but I did want to say that at least among many women I know, black and white, women who are white whose response to being called out for being less than civilized is to weep and say, “look at you meanie you made me cry” are considered to be underhanded manipulators, which makes them untrustworthy in all spheres of their lives.

I remember during the 2008 campaign, when then Senator Hillary Clinton ‘wept’, and almost changed the outcome of her bid for president. This is not necessarily the same as the white female use of tears after an un-politically correct racial comment, but I distinctly remember the reports surrounding her crying on the campaign trail. Not that her tears were not genuine, but I remember feeling like this was manipulation.

Yeah I heard of Susan Smith South Park did an episode on the whole blame the POC thing but they said it was “some puerto rican guy” LOL

There was a recent one of a white woman Bonnie Sweeten who said she and her daughter were trapped in the trunk of a car and were kidnapped by some black guys who had a cadilac when she really just went to Disneyland

I knew that story was a lie as soon as I heard the word cadillac what next they had big afros and called her a jive turkey?

Wow…I remember this one white girl I hung out with in college. And whenever she partied too much and flunked a class or overdrew on her checking account and had to call her dad, she would start the tears FIRST, cry her way THROUGH the phone call, hang up, and then suddenly the waterworks would magically end.

I’m not sure whether men or women are more racist, but something I have noticed is that there are some gender differences in the form that racism takes. Racism among men tends to revolve around such issues as labor market competition, crime, and immigration. Women may also manifest racist tendencies with respect to these issues. However, many women seem to practice a type of racism that men generally don’t. For evolutionary and/or cultural reasons, a large fraction of females are concerned with being considered more physically attractive than other females. This competition can take place on an interpersonal, intraracial level, such as two white girls in the same sorority vying for the affections of an ultra-popular fraternity dude. However, competition in many cases is percieved to take place on a group (“racial”) level as well. Thus some white women want white females in general to be considered more attractive than women of other races. Most of my experiences have been with white women, but I don’t think sense of racial competition over beauty perception is limited to them though. In any case, this competitive frame of mind will lead some females to disparage the physical features of women of other races in order to bolster the claim of their group to being the most attractive.

What I would like to know is why they take such umbrage, enough to turn the water works on, when called out for racist behaviour. A woman at work told me she was called a racist. She asked me if I thought she was one. I responded by telling her, that I didn’t know her well enough to make that call, I was trying to be diplomatic that is. All the while she was looking at me with her eyes tearing up. What I really wanted to say to her was; “why the h@ll are you asking me”? I also noticed that she didn’t approach any white folk with her concern. If she was looking to me to validate her lack of racist feeling, she came to the wrong person. It was not the first time she has been accused of racism, probably won’t be the last. I find such behaviour irritating to say the least.

Another anti-white post by affirmative action baby Abagond. The extremists and black racists who frequent this blog are hypocrites, and have nothing better to do but belittle white women but then get upset if any bw are disrespected. Black women are so insanely jealous of white women. I find it sad. White women don’t even give black women a second thought, yet you people are obsessed with us.

Nicole… if I am truthful with you and say your comment is extremely racist, are you going to run off and cry and expect everyone to comfort and embrace you??? LOL

And by the way, Nicole, if white women don’t give Black women as second thought, why are you, and almost every other white woman I know, always SWEARING up and down that Black women are jealous??

And, Nicole, I am a white woman and I do not feel the slightest bit belittled by this post. The only reason to even THINK that this post is belittling is if you see yourself in the description and do not want to admit it.

Susan Smith, Bonnie Sweeten and other cases of phantom black men show that whether they’re true or not this society runs quick to help the privileged white person and slow to help the POC who deserve help. I call this one case of white immoral morality.

White women don’t even give black women a second thought, yet you people are obsessed with us.

Yes, so much so, that a ‘white woman’ like you, comes to this blog to remind all us ‘hypocrites’ and ‘black racists’ of this fact. If it’s any consolation to you, Nicole/Andrew, I don’t give white women a second thought unless they start with the water works as a form of manipulation in order to garner sympathy. It puts me in mind of that song;’ Cry Me a River’. I much rather listen to that song than some white woman caterwauling in order to get out of a situation in which she is the offending party.

Does this lack of race consciousness contribute to the tears?

No, it means that some dumb schmuck will come to their rescue, especially if a black person is the offended party.

I don’t know why some white women think they are exempt from racist thinking and I get tired of some white women acting like they’re on par with bp when it comes to oppression and discrimination. Some of them think just because they are women that they can identify w/ the plight of blacks (usually black men only) and somehow that makes them exempt from racist thoughts…it doesn’t.

Amen. A quick visit to feminist blogs will show several comments comparing sexism to racism. One commenter went on a black female’s blog and said “No matter how bad racism is, it will never be as bad as sexism.”… O RLY?

Y,

Like Menelik Charles said one of the primary driving forces of white supremacy and the violence that comes of it is protection of white women from non-white men, particularly black men.

Things are changing now. I dont see as many young white men “white knighting” to protect the “sanctity” of the white womanhood.

Whats sad is despite all of this I hear black men say white women are less racist than white men, on average.

I’m glad you said it. One thing that makes me wonder is when black men go on and on about white racism (i.e. white male’s racism), then turn around and defend white women. So white men are racist, but white women are not?? They grew up in the same households, in the same country, under the same influences; get real.

I’ve seen “white women’s tears” work effectively but a few times and in two out of three of those instances it was black men who ran to their defense (in the other it was fellow white women).

Hmmmm… I think the difference often goes because, well, black men are men, and white women are women. So if you are attracted to a woman (even subconsciously- you are a straight guy and of course you’ll prefer women to men), it can make you give her a pass where you wouldn’t for a white man.

Also, it is more likely for men to discuss certain issues, and women to discuss other. I’m not saying male-female friendship or conversations are non-existent, but I do believe it’s more likely for a guy to discuss certain issues with a guy and learn about his racist views.

(I’m not saying this is a general rule: after all, the author of this blog is a straight man who claims white wo0men are the most difficult to talk with about racism).

“Hmmmm… I think the difference often goes because, well, black men are men, and white women are women. So if you are attracted to a woman (even subconsciously- you are a straight guy and of course you’ll prefer women to men), it can make you give her a pass where you wouldn’t for a white man.”

You mean, why don’t white men get a pass from black women? I don’t know: do they?

When I said “get a pass”, I didn’t mean that black men really think white women are not racist. But if many of them do think white men are more racist than white women, it could be because of attraction or the fact black men don’t know/don’t talk often with white women, or they talk about different, “neutral” things.

“You mean, why don’t white men get a pass from black women? I don’t know: do they?”

No, you said that attraction to the opposite sex is what causes black men to be blind/ignore/excuse the racism of white women. So I wonder why white men don’t give black women a pass (i.e. they don’t ignore any wrongdoings of black women, don’t defend them, etc).

But to answer your question, no, I don’t think white men get a pass from black women, on average.

“When I said “get a pass”, I didn’t mean that black men really think white women are not racist. But if many of them do think white men are more racist than white women, it could be because of attraction or the fact black men don’t know/don’t talk often with white women, or they talk about different, “neutral” things.”

I don’t think the latter case is true — black men do interact with white women. I’ve noticed that many black men have white female friends; I first recognized this in college and it’s continued to be true since then. Actually, white friends in general. My SO noticed it too. He’s said that, if a white person (especially a female) interacts with and is familiar with black people at all, it is more likely that these people are males.

I thought we were talking about black people here, what they think who’s more racist: white men, or white women. Now, in theory, we should discuss what people of any race think who’s more racist, but the sad fact is that whites don’t think they are racist at all, so it’s hard to make them “measure” racism of their own group.

All in all, it was just a “theory” that seemed logical to me. It looks like it’s not the case in reality, so I really don’t know.

And it’s interesting about white women and black men. I always assumed most of the people have more friends of the same gender. Of course, it’s not a rule, but (white) females often complain about not having male friends, and discuss whether male-female friendship is even possible, blah blah blah. So I don’t know. I guess I just assumed most of the interracial friendships are same gender ones (I guess I was wrong here too).

“I thought we were talking about black people here, what they think who’s more racist: white men, or white women.”

Well, you introduced gender as a possible reason why black men defend white women. So I wondered if gender/attraction is really the determining factor in the way one views another (in regards to racism or otherwise), then why doesn’t the same apply when the races are switched?

I agree with Natasha W if attraction to the opposite sex is the reason black men will fall for the “white woman’s tears” and let racism form white women slide, while being offended and angered by white male racism why doesnt it work in the reverse.

If this is a matter of gender white men would be “white knighting” for black women and other non-white women, but this isnt the case. White men dont give passes to black women the way black men give pass to white women.

^To add more to the above: Anyone thinking (some) white women are not as racist as (some) white men, needs to spend more time around white women. Simply because their racism takes a different form than that of white males doesn’t make them any less so.

White men arent more racist. Its the same but manifests itself in different ways. How can to groups that have the same experience in this country come out differently. The same conditioning and racist “training” that racist whites give thier sons is also given to their daughters.

A white male will be told to not associate, date or hire non-whites, and make no apologies about it. Whereas a white female will be told all of the above but traditional femininity allows her to hide it better. Being female means she cant be seen as angry, overtly aggressive ect. Because of this she can be racist but still has to smile and act cordial. Anyone who has been to or lived in the South knows what I am talking about. The same thoughts are behind the racism ts just more acceptable for a man to be visible racist/aggressive than a woman.

Y- I think women are also given an out, in that, being a woman, they are seen as being “under the influence” of the men in their lives…. so instead of their racism being seen as their racism, it is seen as a reflection of the men in their lives. So, patriarchy benefits white women, in that it gives them an excuse to be racist.

Ah, but leavumthinking, do not confuse women not committing as many acts of violence in the name of racism as not “acting on it” Women, in general, tend to participate less in violence then men in general BUT that does not mean they are not sitting on the sidelines, cheering it on, encouraging it, and manipulating it. Personally, I find the more “subtle” activities of racists to be far more detrimental than the overt actions of a few. When a Black man is attacked because a white woman CLAIMS that he violated her in some way, she is just as guilty if he is harmed because of her lies, even if her male counterparts are the ones to actually carry out the attack.

“The difference between black men and white men is that black men see all women regardless of race as women. So when a white women cries a black man will come to her “rescue” as they would for any woman of any race.”

No, this is just not true, IME.

There are very few instances I’ve seen where black men run to the rescue when black women are being castigated, and these instances are etched in my brain. I used to think I was just imagining things, but I’ve seen it over and over. The two most common responses by black men are (a) silence/doing nothing and (b) agreeing with the person/s doing the castigating, especially if it is another black male. Case in point, the “Toure” post on this blog.

“Everyone knows that white women are racist also but white men take it one step futher by acting on it. example dragging blacks from the back of pick up trucks, burning down black churches, the hangings, etc. Many people are racist towards blacks but nobody has acted out on it the way white men has past and present.”

And the white women who [falsely] accused black men and women of wrongdoings which were the direct cause of them being lynched, and watched these lynches with enjoyment were what?… Not acting out their racism?

You’d be surprised what white women say/do once they feel they are in “safe territory.”

In any case, I’d rather someone be open about their racism (making it easier to confront) rather than pull strings behind the scenes.

“Ah, but leavumthinking, do not confuse women not committing as many acts of violence in the name of racism as not “acting on it” Women, in general, tend to participate less in violence then men in general BUT that does not mean they are not sitting on the sidelines, cheering it on, encouraging it, and manipulating it. Personally, I find the more “subtle” activities of racists to be far more detrimental than the overt actions of a few. When a Black man is attacked because a white woman CLAIMS that he violated her in some way, she is just as guilty if he is harmed because of her lies, even if her male counterparts are the ones to actually carry out the attack.”

leaveumthinking… are you a man or a woman??? because if you are a man, it would make sense that you have had more altercations with white men… women tend to lash out at other women (or just talk about you behind your back)… men tend to lash out at other men

I agree with Natasha wrt black men, they don’t “see all women as women” any more than anyone else. Black men not standing by black women is one of the saddest realities of our times. Black men rush to the aid of white women because of racism, and because without doing the hard anti-racist work to destroy racist beliefs, they believe white women are somehow “better”.

There are very few instances I’ve seen where black men run to the rescue when black women are being castigated, and these instances are etched in my brain. I used to think I was just imagining things, but I’ve seen it over and over. The two most common responses by black men are (a) silence/doing nothing and (b) agreeing with the person/s doing the castigating, especially if it is another black male. Case in point, the “Toure” post on this blog.

laromana says,
leaveumthinking , thanks for stating this very important FACT about how MOST BM mistreat/contribute to the mistreatment of BW.

Because MOST BM REFUSE to DEFEND HONOR/DIGNITY of BW, they CONTINUE to be the UNIVERSAL PUNCHING BAG of the world.

And anyone who thinks white women aren’t just as complicit as white men in racism needs to read “At the hands of persons unknown”, the definitive work on the lynchings of Black Americans. The lynching culture was driven by the “need” to protect white women from “black beasts”. Not only were the white women the catalysts behind many lynchings, they were also right there egging the mobs on and serving up watermelon and ice cream.

“The two most common responses by black men are (a) silence/doing nothing and (b) agreeing with the person/s doing the castigating, especially if it is another black male. Case in point, the “Toure” post on this blog.

Personally, I think you are on the wrong blog, if you are seeking this type of response. This is not the kind of blog to bring forward that level of consciousness.

Rather, what one sees here is Black male diatribe, black female diatribe etc which really is rooted in self-hate, but very few would be brave to admit it.

There are very few instances I’ve seen where black men run to the rescue when black women are being castigated, and these instances are etched in my brain. I used to think I was just imagining things, but I’ve seen it over and over. The two most common responses by black men are (a) silence/doing nothing and (b) agreeing with the person/s doing the castigating, especially if it is another black male. Case in point, the “Toure” post on this blog.

laromana says,
Natasha , thanks for stating this very important FACT about how MOST BM mistreat/contribute to the mistreatment of BW.

Because MOST BM REFUSE to DEFEND the HONOR/DIGNITY of BW, they CONTINUE to be the UNIVERSAL PUNCHING BAG of the world.

“Because MOST BM REFUSE to DEFEND the HONOR/DIGNITY of BW, they CONTINUE to be the UNIVERSAL PUNCHING BAG of the world”.

Personally, I know its difficult but ideally the best situation would be if Black women could make a stand for themselves and not even necessarily seeking or needing protection by men

The problem here is that most Black men, and I presume we are referring to the US, etc do NOT have the wherewithal to even stand up for their own honour, and/or their community, let alone Black women.

This is why some radicals – not all though – believe that if you target the males in how the world is presently
(con-)structured, you will destroy a ‘race’ ultimately. And these radicals believe this is what talking place.

If this is the case, then it will have to be the women not
the men who will ultimately save the ‘race’.

When you study African history you will often see women literally fighting on the battlefield.

J,
EVERYONE can see the MANY ACHIEVEMENTS of BW and the FACT that MOST BM have had NO PART in MOST BW’s success.

The MAIN thing BW need is for ANTI-BW RACIST/HATER BM to LEARN to SHUT their MOUTHS and STOP ATTACKING/GOING ALONG WITH ATTACKS on the HUMANITY/DIGNTIY/FEMININITY of BW.

Today I was reminded of the challenge that BW are facing/continue to face when it comes to ANTI-BW BM when I heard that yet another LOWLIFE BM (“Slim Thug) is spreading ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE in the American media world.

BM ONLY EXIST because a BW CHOSE to BIRTH them period!
BM have NO BUSINESS being ANTI-BW RACIST/HATERS.
I don’t know of ANY NON-BM who make it their JOB to go around TRASHING the women who MOST resemble their MOTHERS/GRANDMOTHERS/SISTERS because they know this is the same as TRASHING themselves.
MANY BM are such SELF HATING/COWARDS that they don’t understand this BASIC concept.

BW DESERVE to have their HUMANITY/DIGNITY RESPECTED by EVERYONE and there should be a HEAVY PRICE to PAY for ANYONE who chooses to ATTACK them.

I read that on a blog somewhere, lol, you have to laugh at these clowns. I’m not sure where all this vitriol heaped on black women comes from. To be mules, not only carry our problems on our shoulders but theirs too.
In real life it’s as bad.
I’m reminded of an incident just yesterday, on my lunchbreak. Got a quick sandwich and coffee. There’s a white woman in front of me, a black man at the counter taking orders. After exchanging some cheerful banter with this lady, my turn comes up and it’s all he could do to give me friendly service and damn near threw my money at me.
There was that resentment I’m increasingly feeling with young black males.
White female professional is only natural, service with a smile,but he’ll be damned if he’ll give a black female counterpart the same courtesy.

“Today I was reminded of the challenge that BW are facing/continue to face when it comes to ANTI-BW BM when I heard that yet another LOWLIFE BM (“Slim Thug) is spreading ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE in the American media world.”

I saw that too. And I think it’s relevant to this post as it is a perfect example of how many black men have fallen into the trap of uplifting white women while disparaging the only people who’ve ever given a damn about them, black women:

What you have said does not minimise the point that I have said – in fact I am not sure you addressed the political theory that posits to destroy a ‘race’ in today’s world, you would have to target the ‘male’.

And here’s another question to think about,

What if racism is too strong to overcome, and many do become its victims, be they Black males and/or lower class Blacks (males and females).

Where are you going to apportion the blame??

Because for a surety these same individuals who become its victims will also come back to ‘haunt’ you in one way or another.

Short of taking to the streets with placards that assert the ‘we’re in charge of our lives’ spiel, I’m not sure how bigger a stand black women can take that they haven’t already all these years. Unless taking a stand has taken on a different form lately then I’d concur.

There are different type of ‘stands’ ie like raising a family etc and there are those that are more ‘overt’ and I am not referring to marching.

My point – I still think is valid – if the men are failing then the women will have to take a ‘stand’, whether that be how they start to raise their male children to be non-sexist or fighting for better schooling, to even more overt political action.

“Personally, I know its difficult but ideally the best situation would be if Black women could make a stand for themselves and not even necessarily seeking or needing protection by men

The problem here is that most Black men, and I presume we are referring to the US, etc do NOT have the wherewithal to even stand up for their own honour, and/or their community, let alone Black women.

This is why some radicals – not all though – believe that if you target the males in how the world is presently
(con-)structured, you will destroy a ‘race’ ultimately. And these radicals believe this is what talking place.

If this is the case, then it will have to be the women not
the men who will ultimately save the ‘race’.

When you study African history you will often see women literally fighting on the battlefield.”

A single gender cannot save a race. In order for a social group to prosper, the men and the women who belong to it must have amicable relations so that they can cooperate, build stable households, and rear children properly. That’s why the many angry statements about the percieved failures of “BM” left on this blog are an indication of deep trouble within the US black community.

“A single gender cannot save a race. In order for a social group to prosper, the men and the women who belong to it must have amicable relations so that they can cooperate, build stable households, and rear children properly. That’s why the many angry statements about the percieved failures of “BM” left on this blog are an indication of deep trouble within the US black community”

Wow!! Is this from the same person who I said defended all things White??

Be that as it may.

With regard to:

‘A single gender cannot save a race’ who knows but what we do know is that they can lead by example and inspire those who had lost hope, whether it be male or female.

And this is the essence of my point – women coming to the fore to take up the challenge where men have apparently not been succesful, on their own merits.

However, and surprisingly this view has been contested – which does not make any real sense in my humble opinion

J, I honestly thought that question was directed towards FG. I’ll maybe answer your question, as ridiculous as it is, tomorrow, since I have to go.

But skimming it, I have to say is that “resources” have nothing to do with standing up for others. One only needs a mouth (or fingers, as it may be) to do that. Thus your comparison is, as usual, completely off-base.

Read by Beaula Richardson at the Women’s Workshop at the American People’s Peace Congress held in Chicago on June 29, 30 and July 1, 1951 bringing a standing ovation from all 500 women attending.

It is right that I a woman
black,
should speak of white womanhood.
my fathers
my brothers
my husbands
my sons
die for it: because of it.
and their blood
chilled in electric chairs,
stopped by hangman’s noose,
cooked by lynch mobs’ fire,
spilled by white supremacist mad desire to kill
give me that right

I would that I could speak of white womanhood
as it will and should be
when it stands tall in full equality.
but then, womanhood will be womanhood.
Void of color and of class,
And all necessity for my speaking thus will be past.
Gladly past.

But now, since ‘tis deemed a thing apart
Supreme,
I must in searching honesty report
How it seems to me.
White womanhood stands in bloodied skirt
and willing slavery
reaching out adulterous hand
killing mine and crushing me.
What then is the superior thing
That in order to be sustained must needs feed upon my flesh?
Let’s look to history.

They said, the white supremacist said
that you were better than me,
that your fair brow would never know the sweat of slavery.
They lied
White womanhood to is enslaved,
The difference is degree.

They brought me here in chains.
They brought you here willing slaves to man.
You, shiploads of women each filled with hope
That she might win with ruby lip and saucy curl
And bright and flashing eyes
Him to wife who had the largest tender.
Remember?
And they sold you here even as they sold me.

My sisters, there is no room for mockery.
If they counted my teeth
They did appraise your thigh
And sold you to the highest bidder
The same as I.

And you did not fight for your right to choose
Whom you would wed
But for whatever bartered price
That was the legal tender
You were sold to a stranger’s bed
In a stranger land
Remember?
And you did not fight.
Mind you, I speak not mockingly
But I fought for freedom,
I’m fighting now for our unity.
We are women all.
And what wrongs you murders me
And eventually marks your grave
So we share a mutual death at the hand of tyranny.

They trapped me with the chain and gun.
They trapped you with lying tongue.
For, ‘less you see that fault—
That male villainy
That robbed you of name, voice and authority,
That murderous greed that wasted you and me,
He, the white supremacist, fixed your minds with poisonous thought:
“white skin is supreme.”
And there with bought that monstrous change
exiling you to things.
Changed all that nature had in you wrought of gentle usefulness, abolishing your spring.
Tore out your heart,
set your good apart from all that you could say,
think,
feel,
know to be right.
And you did not fight,
but set your minds fast on my slavery
the better to endure your own.

‘Tis true
my pearls were beads of sweat
wrung from weary bodies’ pain,
instead of rings upon my hands
I wore swollen, bursting veins.
My ornaments were the wipe-lash’s scar
my diamond, perhaps, a tear.
Instead of paint and powder on my face
I wore a solid mask of fear to see my blood so spilled.
And you, women seeing
spoke no protest
but cuddled down in your pink slavery
and thought somehow my wasted blood
confirmed your superiority.

Because your necklace was of gold
you did not notice that it throttled speech.
Because diamond rings bedecked your hands
you did not regret their dictated idleness.
Nor could you see that the platinum bracelets which graced your wrists were chains
binding you fast to economic slavery
And though you claimed your husband’s name
still could not command his fidelity.

You bore him sons.
I bore him sons.
No, not willingly.
He purchase you.
He raped me,
I fought!
But you fought neither for yourselves nor me.
Sat trapped in your superiority
and spoke no reproach.
Consoled your outrage with an added diamond brooch.
Oh, God, how great is a woman’s fear
who for a stone, a cold, cold stone
would not defend honor, love or dignity!

Your bore the damning mockery of your marriage
and heaped your hate on me,
a woman too,
a slave more so.
And when your husband disowned his seed
that was my son
and sold him apart from me
you felt avenged.
Understand:
I was not your enemy in this,
I was not the source of your distress.
I was your friend, I fought.
But you would not help me fight
thinking you helped only me.
Your deceived eyes seeing only my slavery
aided your own decay.
Yes, they condemned me to death
and they condemned you to decay.
Your heart whisked away,
consumed in hate,
used up in idleness
playing yet the lady’s part
estranged to vanity.
It is justice to you to say your fear equaled your tyranny.

You were afraid to nurse your young
lest fallen breast offend your master’s sight
and he should flee to firmer loveliness.
And so you passed them, your children, on to me.
Flesh that was your flesh and blood that was your blood
drank the sustenance of life from me.
And as I gave suckle I knew I nursed my own child’s enemy.
I could have lied,
told you your child was fed till it was dead of hunger.
But I could not find the heart to kill orphaned innocence.
For as it fed, it smiled and burped and gurgled with content
and as for color knew no difference.
Yes, in that first while
I kept your sons and daughters alive.

But when they grew strong in blood and bone
that was of my milk
you
taught them to hate me.
PUt your decay in their hearts and upon their lips
so that strength that was of myself
turned and spat upon me,
despoiled my daughters, and killed my sons.
You know I speak true.
Though this is not true for all of you

When I bestirred myself for freedom
and brave Harriet led the way
some of you found heart and played a part
in aiding my escape.
And when I made my big push for freedom
your sons fought at my sons’ side.
Your husbands and brothers too fell in that battle
when Crispus Attucks died.
It’s unfortunate that you acted not in the way of justice
but to preserve the Union
and for dear sweet pity’s sake;
Else how came it to be with me as it is today?
You abhorred slavery
yet loathed equality.

I would that the poor among you could have seen
through the scheme
and joined hands with me.
Then, we being the majority, could long ago have recued
our wasted lives.
But no.
The rich, becoming richer, could be content
while yet the poor had only the pretense of superiority
and sought through murderous brutality
to convince themselves that what was false was true.

So with KKK and fiery cross
and bloodied appetites
set about to prove that “white is right”
forgetting their poverty.
Thus the white supremacist used your skins
to perpetuate slavery.
And woe to me.
Woe to Willie McGee.
Woe to the seven men of Martinsville.
And woe to you.
It was no mistake that your naked body on an Esquire calendar
announced the date, May Eighth.
This is your fate if you do not wake to fight.
They will use your naked bodies to sell their wares
though it be hate, Coca Cola or rape.

When a white mother disdained to teach her children
this doctrine of hate,
but taught them instead of peace
and respect for all men’s dignity
the courts of law did legislate
that they be taken from her
and sent to another state.
To make a Troy Hawkins of the little girl
and a killer of the little boy!

No, it was not for the womanhood of this mother
that Willie McBee died
but for the depraved, enslaved, adulterous woman
whose lustful demands denied,
lied and killed what she could not possess.
Only three months before another such woman lied
and seven black men shuddered and gave up their lives.
These women were upheld in these bloody deeds
by the president of this nation,
thus putting the official seal on the fate
of white womanhood with in these United States.
This is what they plan for you.
This is the depravity they would reduce you to.
Death for me
and worse than death for you.

What will you do?
Will you fight with me?
White supremacy is your enemy and mine.
So be careful when you talk with me.
Remind me not of my slavery, I know it will
but rather tell me of your own.
Remember, you have never known me.
You’ve been busy seeing me
as white supremacist would have me be,
and I will be myself.
Free!
My aim is full equality.
I would usurp their plan!
Justice
peace
and plenty
for every man, woman and child
who walks the earth.
This is my fight!

If you will fight with me then take my hand
and the hand of Rosa Ingram, and Rosalee McGee,
and as we set about our plan
let our Wholehearted fight be:
PEACE IN A WORLD WHERE THERE IS EQUALITY.
_______________________________________
Please read this poem. Thanks.

J says,
My point – I still think is valid – if the men are failing then the women will have to take a ‘stand’, whether that be how they start to raise their male children to be non-sexist or fighting for better schooling, to even more overt political action.

Personally I cannot see why this point should even become an issue??

laromana says,
J, your REFUSAL to see/accept the TRUTH about MOST BM and their OBVIOUS IRRESPONSIBILITY as it relates to PROTECTING/DEFENDING the HONOR/DIGNITY of the women of their race, is APPALLING/DISGUSTING.

How dare you suggest that BW need to do MORE than they already do to MAKE UP for the MANY BM who aren’t fulfilling their PROPER ROLES/RESPONSIBILITIES towards BW/the BC.

Also, why don’t you stop MAKING EXCUSES for the WRONG actions/attitudes of MANY BM who DISRESPECT/DISHONOR BW (eg. your question to Merrimay-To what extent was the treatment you received based on ‘race’ as opposed to ‘sex’ ie Black female?? or your claim- “most Black men, and I presume we are referring to the US, etc do NOT have the wherewithal to even stand up for their own honour, and/or their community, let alone Black women.”).
There is NO EXCUSE for those BM who CHOOSE to be IRRESPONSIBLE towards BW/the BC.

BW have/continue to receive MORE DISCRIMINATORY treatment (RACISM/SEXISM)
than BM do/have but manage to achieve MAJOR success in many arenas, despite the MANY ANTI-BW RACIST/HATERS (including MANY BM) who have come/continue to come against them.

Yes to that poem. White women continue to trap themselves with their tears. If you need to be “rescued” every time you do wrong then you will always be seen as inferior. White supremacy is ultimately white male supremacy.

”Not wishing to demean your experience but you see this type of treatment in UK quite regularly.

To what extent was the treatment you received based on ‘race’ as opposed to ‘sex’ ie Black female??

And how would you ‘know’ that if there was a ‘Black male’ behind you, he would not receive the same treatment from the employee??”

_______________________________________________

On one hand there is an admission on your part that this sort of thing happens, might I assume that it’s something you have observed to be written off as happening ‘regularly’ then?!
Then again you’re illustrating someone’s point earlier, of a black male’s readiness to defend the white female, and heap blame on the black woman. Notice how you dismissed the black male treatment of the white female, stellar as it was. My experience can’t be valid unless it happened to and backed up by the phantom black man behind me?
How can I make a stand when you think to do so there needs to be that ‘black man behind me’??
And here you are J wanting black women to take a stand. I said before if we can’t even get people to believe that it’s happenng to us, we’re met with skepticism, disbelief, it’s downright demeaning J, you doing exactly what you sought not to do, or so you said! Since I’m the lone black female in that company then I’ll pose the same question:

”To what extent was the treatment she received based on ‘race’ as opposed to ‘sex’ ie white female??

And how would you ‘know’ that if there was a ‘white male’ behind her, he would not receive the same treatment from the employee??”

I’ll let you off on receiving good service because she’s of the fairer sex( fair I am not, lol) ie female, by that token I should receive the same, no? but naivete comes into play here when you presume my color had nothing to do with it. I must have imagined it, because there wasn’t a black man behind me to disprove it, but right here in front of me, as he was, dishing it out. SMDH

Yours is a sweeping statement, you’d have to clarify who exactly has self hate issues. Again I see you’ve exhibited a so-called trait particular to black females that you exempt black males from. Classic! Come on, you have to do better than those types of double standards!
I’d like you to outline those self hate issues that you’ve concluded I have.
The topic at hand ‘White Women’s tears’ led us to how even (black) males can be complicit in this type of manipulation by white females. I gave my own example, you concurred that it happens, but contradict yourself that only if there’s someone to back it up, afterall my word alone isn’t enough.
You want black females to take a stand, I’ve put it to you how to start when we’re met with, accusations to the contrary.
I’ve made clear my feelings on white supremacy, to be accused of being complicit with the perpetrators( white females in this instance) boggles my mind. How pray tell have you come to that conclusion??

However, the truth of what I suggested may also have some merits. I receive all sorts of treatment as a Black male in shops from the different
races, nationalities etc in the UK.”

That’s true, in this instance a lone black female in an all white English environment, give or take a smattering of European nationalities and an Asian. All things being equal, we’re all subject to the same treatment/service no?. I didn’t bring it up to castigate black males, lest you think I’m self hating, that’s absurd! More to back up a rather puzzling phenomenon of the types of treatment we’re subject to as black females, whether the ‘perpetrator’ is black or white. White females get a pass that we as black females aren’t privy to.

I am trying to find out whether this is a ‘stereotype’ that you have and so in a scenario where you see a Black male behaving accordingly then it supports your world-view, without you having the necessary ‘facts’ to the ‘objective situation

If you do not have all the necessary facts, like a knowledge of the Black male employee politics, does he serve this White woman everyday? Have I noticed that he has also treated other Black females in a similar way, and hence it cannot be personal

Then this is would ultimately lead to a self-fulfilling prophesy.

From the account you gve, unless I mis-read it, seems to note only a few limited variables

1. The behaviour of the Black male
2. His reaction to the White woman
3. His reaction to you as a Black female (but NOT as an individual/person)

=

Another instance of a Black male dis-respecting a Black woman in favour of a White woman

“Then can you kindly answer this question you have avoided for the longest time”

Again, I don’t avoid questions. Never have, never will. It’s pretty disingenuous of you to say this.

“Sorry but I am afraid you still have failed to give an answer to whether you hold African countries for the state they are in.

At least in the US Black males do not control resources, economics etc.”

I just want to say I commend you for bringing up the topic of Africa! For sure, this topic has never been broached by blacks in the diaspora wishing to find excuses for themselves! This is when I’m supposed to say you are right, because *gasp* you brought up Africa…/sarcasm

Cheap tactic even from you, J.

Here is my position on both of these issues:

(1) Colonialism has left much of Africa in a state of disarray. However, colonialism and white supremacy are not the only culprits. Corruption by goverment officials and others that are supposed to be working in the interest of the people, have held back progress even further. I’ve seen with my own eyes, the severe corruption. So, my answer to the first question is yes and no.

(2) Racism has left much of black America in a state of disarray. I don’t think I’ve ever said otherwise; obviously I wouldn’t visit this blog if I disagreed with that. However, I do believe that blacks much work to do outside of racism in order to move forward (There is no need to list the plethora of work that needs to be done). Racism is a stumbling block, but it can be overcome.

So you see J, unlike you, I don’t play favorites. Everyone has a responsibility to themselves.

J, you are nickling and dimeing MerriMay. I have seen this on numerous occasions, but with both genders. I will give you one such anecdotal occasion. My family and I were at an art show. We went to purchase some lunch. The two servers were black females. There was also some white people waiting in line. We were first in line. Who do you think they served first? The white folk! My brother in law, said politely that we had been in line first. The woman ignored him and proceeded to serve the white people first. All the while with an obsequious demeanor, enough to tun one’s stomach. When our turn came to be served, her whole demeanor changed. She became cold and efficient. I refused to buy food from this vendor, but my brother in law and sister were ‘starving’ so bit the bullet and bought a sandwich and drink. My brother in law asked her why she served the others before us. She was unable to give any plausible response. It was obvious to me that she had, has a disdain for her fellow blacks. I do-not have to sit and observe her treatment of other blacks to come to this conclusion. As my brother in law said later, “she has a slave mentality”. He said other things that can’t be reiterated here, however, not within her earshot. This happens frequently enough for me to notice this type of behaviour. The reason this stood out in my mind was because it was so blatant. As for the clown grinning up in the white woman’s face, in MerriMay’s situation, there was nothing to interpret or dissect, that man was a white behind kissing fool. MerriMay, I hope you didn’t tip him!

^True, black males (American and non-American) can be very chauvinistic and downright misogynistic at times. But to say they are moreso than white males is just false, and only a person with a warped perspective would buy into that idea. Ever heard of Pick-Up Artist (PUA)? Who do you think founded and perpetuates this incredible bastion of misogny and sexism? You got it — white males.

Oh, don’t get him started on that. I am not in the mood for “Teutonic,” “Mediterranean” crap being thrown around right now.

Sorry!

What is interesting here is that the descendants of peoples who the most civilized Europeans (Romans and Greeks) saw as barbarians- who more or less adapted their cultures in order to be civilized- are today seen as the most pure, intelligent, civilized, etc among Europeans- and NOT descendants of Greeks and Romans.

Where is the evidence for this and how do we know it is not Black female hating the Black male stereotype, out of self-hatred for self??

The evidence was blatant in that the woman served the white people first, and took a cold dismissive attitude towards my brother in law, who was with his wife, daughter, and sister in law(me). It was quite obvious to me that this woman had disdain, at least in this instance, towards her fellow blacks. As for stereotypes, we were at an art show! Perhaps she thought we shouldn’t have been there? As for this woman’s self-hatred, I can only go by her behaviour which was blatant. As for MerriMay, what did she do to elicit this behaviour from this man? Did she say; “”Give me a fcking cup of coffee and a sandwich and be quick about it”? I don’t think so. This is the only reason that I could see this man treating her the way he did whilst shucking and jiving for the white woman. Perhaps it was he who has a negative stereotype of black women, hence his behaviour towards MerriMay.

“The anthropologists in the universities around the world would disagree”

…with the idea of race as a biological entity. I attended and still attend plenty of universities, not one anthropologist would ever make the assertions you are making here.

Tell the doctors and the pharmaceutical companies developing genetics drugs for the various races that.”

Actually, they are developing these drugs based on geographical origin and susceptilities thereof. So, for example, an African-American is not the same as a West African which is not the same as a South African.

you don’t see white males making music video referring to “bitches & hos”

They don’t have to, they live and breath it in there every day life. That’s why they are the biggest consumers of rap. They can sit back and let someone else take the blame for saying these things. They can continue to carry on the pretense of being civilized while enjoying the vicarious thrills of this sort of name calling.

It is a constant theme on TV. There are freqwnt real live

I watch Bugs Bunny/Road Runner. I suppose I should believe that when an anvil falls on Wiley E Coyote, from a cliff, or if Wiley gets blown up by an Acme bomb, that he really can get up and walk away unscathed and intact.

tacitus stated the barbarians were more civilzed than his own romans.

Tacitus was having a bad day when he wrote that. Too bad he wasn’t on television!

i can’t speak for Spanish males or Italians, but Anglo males are pretty well behaved culturally. Please no individual examples, it means nothing

Am really puzzled here, how you, without all the facts, can go on about stereotypes on my part. I’m scratching my head over here. I hate black males? self hate? projection perhaps??
What other black female stereotypes are you going to throw my way next? dare I ask. * smh*
You contradict yourself, for someone vying for my stance on stereotyping black males(I’m not, but conveniently supports your point), the irony here seems lost on you, the fact is, you sir, are accusing me of something you seem to be engaging in.
Goodness, any critiquing(sp?) of any black male(god forbid) which happens to validly support the topic at hand is instantly dismissed as ‘hating’ black men or self hate.

Both genders do engage in that type of behavior, but when you single out a member of your race(the only one in the room) for shoddy service, sorry, that speaks volumes!

“Am really puzzled here, how you, without all the facts, can go on about stereotypes on my part. I’m scratching my head over here. I hate black males? self hate?”

That’s what J does!

“You contradict yourself, for someone vying for my stance on stereotyping black males(I’m not, but conveniently supports your point), the irony here seems lost on you, the fact is, you sir, are accusing me of something you seem to be engaging in.”

Right. If I were to compile all of J’s comments on this topic and related topics, I could make a right good case of him stereotyping and hating black women.

“Goodness, any critiquing(sp?) of any black male(god forbid) which happens to validly support the topic at hand is instantly dismissed as ‘hating’ black men or self hate.”

Basically. Amongst blacks, criticism of black men is automatically dismissed and the person chastised. Similarly to how whites dismiss racism and blame blacks.

J says,
Personally what I see here is individuals – specifically females, who have a self-hate for being Black and that manifests itself in a hatred toward Black males.

This is how the nature of oppression works, blame everything and everyone else but not the ‘perpertrators’.

It is easier to direct that ‘self-hate’ toward Black males because it is easier to be complicit with a White racism, and/or it is in fact harder to blame the racist society/White global supremacy.

This may explain the reluctance of the women who a reluctant to take a stand against racism etc.

Perhaps its because such a ‘stand’ would in fact mean these individuals fighting against the things which they love.

laromana says,
J, Try to PAY ATTENTION to what I and other BW on this post have ACTUALLY written instead of DENYING and drawing IRRELEVANT, ABSURD conclusions about the FACTS in our discussion.

My comments regarding the MISTREATMENT of BW by BM has NOTHING to do with BW’s “self hate” and neither I/any other BW NEEDS a BM’s “APPROVAL” to validate the ANTI-BW/RACIST experiences we’ve encountered from people of ALL RACES in our lives.

It would be refreshing if you would exercise some INTELLECTUAL HONESTY about the topic at hand-WW’s tears/how WW’s tears promote White supremacy/White privilege.

“Like the way the majority of this board makes hasty generalizations about all whites, be they men or women?”

I knew that would be your comeback! We’re going to be friends if you stick around. 😉

–The adjective SOME is almost always said or at least implied. I don’t do think ALL whites are racist, but I do think SOME are (abagond’s views are not always the views of his commenters). However, I feel it is unnecessary to keep saying SOME (see how annoying it is?).

It could well be that his behaviour toward Merrimay was motivated by his hatred of Black women, and his love for all things White.

I am asking for the evidence that confirm that his behaviour was deliberately designed to put down a Black woman and in essence – ALL Black womEn in favour of a White woman – and hence all White womEn.

From the words which were typed on this screen before us. You cannot reach that conclusion.

Personally I think there is a diametric correlation between ‘racial consciousness’ and understanding when and where to provide ‘constructive criticism’, in this instance regarding Black males – and by the way NOT all Black males either.

And conversely, also the same with regard to women’s role vis-a-vis feminism, as illustrated by Natasha W on the other thread.

Also there is a difference between understanding how all the factors of race, class and sex, unfolds in a White supremacy system and ‘blaming the victim syndrome’.

” I’m reminded of an incident just yesterday, on my lunchbreak. Got a quick sandwich and coffee. There’s a white woman in front of me, a black man at the counter taking orders. After exchanging some cheerful banter with this lady, my turn comes up and it’s all he could do to give me friendly service and damn near threw my money at me.

THERE WAS THAT RESENTMENT I’M INCREASINGLY FEELING WITH YOUNG BLACK MALES

White female professional is only natural, service with a smile, but he’ll be damned if he’ll give a black female counterpart the same courtesy”.

And again how do we ‘know’ whether this same attitude would not have been applied to Black males and an elderly one also (since we are told its a young male employee)??

I think you hit the nail on the head with your analysis. I would simply like to add that we are all guilty of some form of prejudice. One bad experience here, one bad person there, one – two – three – etc……

Its what is called “False Cause Fallacy”. Ex: Everytime I have a flat tire, its raining; therefore, I shouldn’t drive my car if it is going to rain because inevitably I’ll get a flat tire.” This may be an oversimplification, but it can be applied to almost any situation. Do you sense the hypocrisy here or is it me? Don’t judge me on the color of my skin, but by the content of my character. But, in this case…… if you’re a black male, then the content of your character must have a correlation to the color of your skin; therfore………. False Cause Fallacy………

I think you hit the nail on the head with your analysis. I would simply like to add that we are all guilty of some form of prejudice. One bad experience here, one bad person there, one – two – three – etc……

Its what is called “False Cause Fallacy”. Ex: Everytime I have a flat tire, its raining; therefore, I shouldn’t drive my car if it is going to rain because inevitably I’ll get a flat tire.” This may be an oversimplification, but it can be applied to almost any situation. Do you sense the hypocrisy here or is it me? Don’t judge me on the color of my skin, but by the content of my character. But, in this case…… if you’re a black male, then the content of your character must have a correlation to the color of your skin; therfore………. False Cause Fallacy………

laromana says,
Color O’ Luv, if the experiences of MISTREATMENT/DISRESPECT from BM that I/other BW have shared were ISOLATED incidences that had NOTHING to do with the OPENLY ANTI-BW RACIST/HATE that MANY BW direct at BW, I could agree with your “content of character vs. color of skin” analysis, but this is DEFINITELY NOT the case.

Don’t let J DECEIVE you about the TRUE nature of the ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE that is INCREASINGLY behind the attitudes/attitudes of MANY BM towards BW.

I can’t speak for J, but from my personal perspective, I’d say there are a lot of judgements made by ALL individuals regardless of gender, race, ethnicity, etc… I find the same flaw on all fronts – stereotyping groups or individuals based on any given ‘categorization’. As human beings, we are all guilty of this behavior as it is ‘human nature’. It is unfortunate that the hypocrisy often times is not recognized when one is looking in the mirror. (analogy: I can’t see the forest. Why? There’s too many trees in the way.) lol………

I think you and J have a lot more in common than not. In particular on this subject. You want respect, he wants respect. You feel victimized as a BW by BM. He feels victimized as a BM by BW. I’ll leave it there. Forgive me if I’m overstepping my boundaries, but I simply wanted to say something about the “irony” in the earlier statement. That is all. If I have misunderstood, my apologies.

Color O’ Luv,
You feel victimized as a BW by BM. He feels victimized as a BM by BW. I’ll leave it there. Forgive me if I’m overstepping my boundaries, but I simply wanted to say something about the “irony” in the earlier statement. That is all. If I have misunderstood, my apologies.

As J says, “CHEERS”!!!

laromana says,
Color O’ Luv, I appreciate your attempt at trying to understand the BW/BM dynamic and the cultural problems that exist.

The comments I’ve made regarding the DISRESPECT/MISTREATMENT of BW by BM are not intended to show BW as “victims” but to demonstrate the UNIQUE FACTS regarding the position of BW when it comes to dealing with ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE from persons of ALL RACES from the outside culture (American media/society) and from the so called “BC” where MOST BM CHOOSE NOT to DEFEND the HONOR/DIGNITY of BW against ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE.
I also wanted to point out the FACT that MOST BM are the ONLY group of men who CHOOSES to ATTACK the women that most resemble their MOTHERS/GRANDMOTHERS/SISTERS.
I don’t know of ANY NON-BM who do this.

Again, stating FACTS about the circumstances of ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE to which BW are subjected isn’t the same as looking for “victim” status or making baseless “judegement/stereotyping groups or individuals”.

I am asking for the evidence that confirm that his behaviour was deliberately designed to put down a Black woman and in essence – ALL Black womEn in favour of a White woman – and hence all White womEn.

If you want evidence, call Perry Mason. Two customers come in to get something to eat. One is treated as if her s**t don’t stink. One is treated as a piece of s(*t. One is black the other white. The white one is given the ol shuck and jive routine. The black one is treated like trash. What would one infers from this? 1) That in the very least, the man was an ignorant sob. 2) He has a problem with his fellow blacks or in particular black women as his behaviour illustrates. From what I gather, MerriMay went in there to simply get lunch and was given the ‘kerchief’ head treatment. He wouldn’t have dared done that to a white women to start, else he would be out pounding the pavement. I have experienced similar situations when I was given similar treatment so I can relate to and understand MerriMay’s situation. As I said before, this is a common occurrence, not one off situations. Taken in their totality, there is some credence. Self hatred at it’s best, and it wasn’t on MerriMays part. MerriMay just went in for a sandwich.

I am sorry Herneith I can only conclude you are agreeing with Merrimay on the basis of camaraderie rather than the ‘factual evidence before us’ – excuse the Perry Mason pun –

…Something which you are more than entitled to do, but if this in essence is what you are doing, then it serves no purpose having a dialogue because we are merely speaking about how we wish things to be in your mind vis-a-vis the ‘objective’ world.

1. that ww get better treatment in the global village, because they are white/euro
2. that blk women get less decent treatment in the global
village, because they are black
3. that society, ‘signs off’ on this/complicit, even black men
4. nothing can be/or is going to change
5. acknowledging it, does what?

I do’nt think anyone can deny that the treatment (generally) white females receive in the US/worlwide represents white privilege/supremacy, and that wwt is a ‘mechanism’ to ensure that everyone understands their role in this dynamic

I hope you do not mind but as I read your comments the following thoughts came to my mind especially with regard to revolutionary/political thought.

Its already agreed the ‘double oppression’ of Black women with regard to sex and race. And some Black women have a triple burden of belonging to a lower social class (sex/race/class)…

There will be some Black women – as well as Black men who will benefit from the ‘patriarchial system’.

There will even be some women from all races (including Black females) who will uphold and support the system either complicitly or inadvertently by not doing anything to challenge the system (point 4).

…”There will even be some women from all races (including Black females) who will uphold and support the system either complicitly or inadvertently by not doing anything to challenge the system (point 4).

…By the way what is wwt??…”

@ ‘J’, wwt= white woman tears. When I have been confronted with this ‘phenomenon’, it sends the message that I am violating the ‘code’ of white supremacy, with regards this caucasian or even for that matter, ‘lighter skinned’ woman; I’ve had white skinned latin females, cry on me too, yikes! If white males feel that the ‘social’ order is being disturbed, they can be directly confrontational, or violent in the case of police, etc., with white females, depending on their status in a given environment and the situation, different strategies are employed, ie. crying, hand wringing, snarky comments, reporting ‘you’ to proper authorities, someone who can arrest you/fire you, challenge you or change the rules in their favor etc.

In response to Mira’s comment:
“It is your fault- not others’, princess- if they don’t play by these “rules”, if they don’t cover their true feelings under the shell of smiling and politeness.”

From your profile i gather that you’re a white woman, i’m also a white woman and what i wanna say is that your self-hatred towards white women is unnecessary – compassion, anti-racism and understantding others is not about self-hate. I dont kno what things are like where u live, but where i live white women are a easily targetted minority and no f*cker misses an opportunity to remind me (& any other white girl) about it – mf’s like that are weak racist woman-beaters and need to be caught, shamed & punished because no other form of racism is acceptable or forgivable so why should discrimination of white girls be any different?

U dont need to hate yourself to spread love, just remember that next time u wanna criticise urself – white women shouldnt be hatin anybody or themselves to keep other people happy – equal rights apply to us too and we should use them when the need arises – especially when self-righteous pricks start trying to guilt-trip us into doin sh*t, cus government f*ck-ups of centuries gone by wont be solved by creating racial stereotypes that try to control women, its not like these people will pop out a baby, cut the cord and ask it how to solve the current warfare state problems – make the misguided people see straight, maybe the world would be a lilbit better place if they point their arrows the right way. PEACE, LOVE and sunshine x

Yes, I am a white woman, and no, I don’t hate myself or white women. In case you didn’t notice, I was not talking about all white women- just the ones who fit the profile of “crying when offended” and “princesses” who are taught that being polite and nice is the most important thing, not the truth, true feelings and honesty. Obviously, there are many white women who don’t fit that profile- just like there are many who do. I don’t know if you recognized yourself in it (hope not), but frankly, I don’t have much of a “group loyalty” to defend a white woman just because I am also a white woman.

I am one of those people who try their best to stay away from the collective identities (which is not always possible). Still, I must say I do see women as “my own group”- but all women, regardless of their race. I am aware of the fact that black women, or Asian women might see things differently, which is ok- identities are always subjective anyway- but to me, a white woman is not any more or less a member of “my” group than a black or another non-white woman. So until I start talking trash about women in general it’s not really possible to say I’m in a self-hate mood.

PS- I live in an whole white country, so race is not really an issue here.

The wrongness of lynching goes way beyond the lack of due process and the killing of innocents: It was used as a weapon of terror to keep blacks in their place.
——————————————————-

I remember reading where these white males, probably law enforcement, would drive through black neighborhoods with a ‘make-shift’ electric chair in the back of a pick-up to intimidate and terrorize the people. Can you imagine? They would, stop random black people, mainly males and ask them questions, while smiling at the ‘chair’ in the truck bed.

Herneith, Natasha and Laromana I completely agree, there is too much guarding self interests here to have any more debate on it.
A pity the unfounded self -hate accusation never had any meaningful explanation. I didn’t get that particular memo!lol

Ah! That is the trouble with us white espeically Anglos. We don’t have the group loyalty as others have. Cultural glue is a way to describe it.

Menelik replies:

the group loyalty you claim whites lack is all-too present on a global scale. I don’t expect that you’d recognise it not least the harm it causes to developing nations, but it comes in the form of the World Bank, the IMF, the UN and countless NGOs, supporting corrupt governments, undermining national sovereignty, and compelling ‘3rd world’ nations to pay astonishing interest rates rather than investing in social infrastructures.

This is but one aspect of the white supremacy others allude to, and which is the very ‘glue’ maintaining white standards of living in their ‘home’ nations, and white privilege throughout the world.

Again, I don’t expect you to acknowledge this line of thinking since whites at a deep level are self-perceived victims insofar as they are born white…privileged, yes, but white all the same. Herein lies the problem, folks!

I appreciate your opinions on racism. You strike me as an intelligent person who is concerned with the truth. You also strike me as someone who is concerned with other people’s perspective on life, not just your own. It is a pity more people aren’t like that! Don’t worry about the “self hatred” comments. Most of us on this website know where you are coming from!

truth- they were ACCUSED of rape and murder… that does not make it true! Ever hear of innocent until proven guilty?? And, since we all know that white people CONSTANTLY murdered and raped Black men and women for hundreds of years, why were 99% of THEM not held responsible in any way, shape or form?? Could you imagine the outrage if a Black crowd lynched two white men for ANY crime??? EVEN if it was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the white men were innocent???

You would probably have to figure in the wars waged for colonization and then the uneven battles used to quell the various uprisings, but I suppose that’s probably accurate. Of course, it wasn’t JUST Black people.

[…] and so people are rightly offended if the charge is false. A part of me feels the same way. I can dissolve into tears, as much as anyone else, on those occasions that someone has suggested I’ve done something […]

The problem here is that most Black men, and I presume we are referring to the US, etc do NOT have the wherewithal to even stand up for their own honour, and/or their community, let alone Black women.

As if black women are not equal members of black community… Or is there a specifically black male community that I don’t know about (but black women should fight to protect it even if they are not allowed to be its members).

Personally, I am not in the least surprised you ‘disliked’ the comments.

Since you did not appear to understand what I am saying – not for the first time either –

Therefore I will clarify my position, once again.

I am not for one where men stand up to protect women per se. This is merely a continuation of women are ‘weaker’ and hence ‘inferior’ vis-a-vis men.

And it gives men the ‘chance’ to ‘oppress’ women, if they are dependent upon their men for ‘protection’.

If men have to stand up to ‘protect’ women it is because the society has been constructed that way, to keep females ‘dependent’.

As I said to another female poster, ‘the society’ need not be constructed this way and it can be constructed in a different way.

Notwithstanding, I remember speaking to what might be called a miltant Black women earlier this week, who took the time to remind me that in African cultures you will see a tradition where the women have also been ‘warriors’ and fought on the battlefield beside their men.

Her implication even though she never outrightly said it, the woman can look after themselves to a large degree.

Then said community has to explain why members of another community (black women) should fight for it. Why, if they are not allowed to be members, if they are not seen as people who belong there? Or should they just support them and fight for them, but are not truly and equally accepted into it?

Unfortunately, my comment regarding this was deleted in another thread. So I’ll try to repeat it.

Women are not weak, delicate beings that can’t take care of themselves. We don’t really need male protection. However, if a man is ready to protect a white woman, he should be equally ready to do the same for a woman of another race. Simple as that.

Also, it’s not really about protection. It’s about respect. Respect as a human being and a support. We (women) all like and appreciate this. If a man is not ready to do it, he’s not worth our time. And if a man is ready to do that for a white woman, but not for a black woman (or a woman of another race) then it’s racist.

I understand that it’s sometimes difficult for a modern (or a post-modern :P) man to understand this. Women whine all the time, don’t they? They want attention, they want you to be there, but they don’t want you to help them or treat them as weaker than you. Oh, what a mess!

That’s why I said RESPECT and SUPPORT rather than a protection. I think it’s clear what I’m trying to say. (Is it?)

I think you’re confusing personal level with collective identity. Many people do that.

As a member of one group, it’s expectable for you (general you) to work for its interests and to help it. But that should not be confused with a personal level.

So if you’re black it’s expectable for you to support black causes. But it has nothing to do with your personal level: who you chose to date or marry, for example. So why is such a shocking thing for you to understand a black woman who is in a relationship with a white man (personal level) can still respect black community and support it?

Similarly, a white supremacist is, unfortunately, not any less racist if he falls in love and start a relationship with a black woman.

Do you seriously belive that if ‘respect’ and ‘protection’ were afforded to women, or whatever terms you want to use. Then women will NOT be oppressed??

These things are not mutually exclusive. The oppression of women has many faces and it’s not easy to define it with a few terms. Still, I do believe it would be much better if men learn to treat women as fully human. Are respect and support so difficult to give? Are they easier to give to white women than to black women? To men than to women?

And you still didn’t explain what is so confusing about my view on race.

Please do not tell me that I am confusing matters when you do not even understand many race issues yourself.

I asked you to tell me what you find confusing about my views.

You live in a White country and you now want to tell me about racism

I live in a Balkan country that is in no shape or form similar to what a western country is. That is something YOU fail to recognize, just like you are quick to point at my privilege but are completely blind and refuse to talk about YOUR privilege.

That being said, why can’t I talk about racism? Because I’m white? What, whites are not allowed to talk about it?

Mira says,
Women are not weak, delicate beings that can’t take care of themselves. We don’t really need male protection. However, if a man is ready to protect a white woman, he should be equally ready to do the same for a woman of another race. Simple as that.

Also, it’s not really about protection. It’s about respect. Respect as a human being and a support. We (women) all like and appreciate this. If a man is not ready to do it, he’s not worth our time. And if a man is ready to do that for a white woman, but not for a black woman (or a woman of another race) then it’s racist.

laromana says,
Mira, your above comments are EXCELLENT, especially as they relate to the current situation BW are facing as the MOST ATTACKED/LEAST RESPECTED/SUPPORTED WOMEN on the planet.

Since you were on this blog before me. I have tried not to ‘rock the boat’, and have held back on my opinions regarding you, by your words on this blog.

Oh, I’m a big girl. I’m sure I can handle it.

Personally I see you as one of those Whites, who think they can come around Black people and then start ‘dictating’ and ‘telling Blacks what is right from wrong.

I tend to “lecture” people here only on two things, things I know a lot about: former Yugoslavia and Archaeology. If somebody, for example, you, says something that shows complete lack of knowledge in one of those subjects of course I’ll correct you. Just like Natasha, for example, corrected me on various things concerning biology.

But I never lectured anybody here on race, racism, race relations. I am here to learn.

In a kind of paradoxical way, I am not sure why this has not been levelled against you previously. Perhaps it is something to do with the post of ‘White Women Tears’.

Are you saying that’s because I’m a white female so everybody here give me a pass? But wait… That would include you too, J. You didn’t say anything till now. Is that because I’m a white female?

Mira: As white women, it is NOT our place to comment on relations between Black men and women. Attempt to fight racism, yes, because that is an issue for ALL of society. But what goes on between Black men and Black women, we honestly do not need to comment on. It is unproductive and patronizing.

And do you realize what an offensive stereotype “angry black women who hate white women” is??? I have noticed time and time again white women who CLAIM to be anti-racist throw the “angry Black woman” epithet around as soon as someone disagrees with them. That whole idea of the “angry Black woman attacking white woman based on jealousy” shit is PLAYED OUT. Instead of getting defensive when someone disagrees with you, look inside yourself and see what you could have done better.

Personally as a White person there is a lot that you do not know or understand about racism – even your own racism

Oh, I agree, J. But there’s a lot that you don’t know about racism as well, even your own racism.

And this is where you and me are different. I know that I’m basically ignorant: you seem to think that your life gives you all the tools you need to adequately understand the world. I mistruct my prejudices: you wallow in yours. In short, you think color and identity give one a free ride to knowledge when they quite provably don’t.

Because of this, you’ll accept theories simply because they jibe with your prejudices or make you feel good. You think your intuition trumps rationality. And this tendency makes you go haring off into la-la land where you end up (repeatedly) doing things like claiming Aryanists are afro-centric, or citing unabashed white supremacists as authorities on race and biology.

However, you have the same ‘racist attitudes” as those born and raised within a racist society.

Disagreeing with J is ipso fato evidence of belief in white supremacy, Mira, so watch it. You’ll be put on his list of those who need to be sent to The Wall when the revolution comes for “the people’s” benefit.

“Mira: As white women, it is NOT our place to comment on relations between Black men and women. Attempt to fight racism, yes, because that is an issue for ALL of society. But what goes on between Black men and Black women, we honestly do not need to comment on. It is unproductive and patronizing.

And do you realize what an offensive stereotype “angry black women who hate white women” is??? I have noticed time and time again white women who CLAIM to be anti-racist throw the “angry Black woman” epithet around as soon as someone disagrees with them. That whole idea of the “angry Black woman attacking white woman based on jealousy” shit is PLAYED OUT. Instead of getting defensive when someone disagrees with you, look inside yourself and see what you could have done better.
“

I think you are jumping to conclusions. Mira only brought up that stereotype because J, using ad hominem, accused me of being jealous of white women.

And I don’t there is anything wrong with a white person, man or woman, commenting on racism.

My apologies then… I did not see the origin of the comment…. but the rest of what I said still stands, IMHO.
J- as I said, commenting on racism is one thing, but commenting on relations within the Black community is totally different.

JuJuBe, Mira has never made any comments about the relations between black men and black women. She inquires and asks questions, and points out inconsistencies, yes, but that is different from saying what is wrong/right or telling others what to do. She has never done that. That was another attempt by J to mischaracterize a person and their postions.

Also, Mira is an invaluable commenter here. I personally find many of her comments more insightful than some of the “black” commenters here. So I hope she doesn’t feel discouraged from commenting. She has every right to.

Natasha – I was referring to Mira’s comments about the perceptions that “Black men give white women a pass” while not doing the same for Black women, which IMO is commenting on relations between Black men and women, but hey, I could be wrong.

I remember the comment. And she wasn’t making that observation herself or saying that was the case, she was giving possible reasons as to why it might be the case, after it had already been mentioned (by black commenters).

Any Black person who challenges your White heritage is a ‘racist’, or a fascist, or an Aryan’, and the list goes on forever.

Quite to the contrary, J. The only black person IU’ve consistently accused of being a fascist here is YOU, old bean. And my reasons for labling you as such are quite clear:

1) you believe in the existence of biological races.
2) You believe that races have a “natural” and homogenous political position.
3) You believe, in short, that blood = politics.
4) Furthermore, you are an authoritarian. You believe that people who have “incorrect” political positions should ideally not be seen nor heard.
5) You believe that a vanguard elite should determine the “correct” political position for the masses.

Now correct me if I’m wrong here, J, but this pretty much sums up where you stand, doesn’t it?

That’s pretty much fascism, J.

As for racism, hey, you praise the works of people who make no bones about the fact that they are racist. You yourself believe in the existence of biologically determined human races. Furthermore, you believe that these races can be categorized along a heirarchy from “superior” to “inferior”. As far as I can see, the only point where you and the average member of Stormfront would split on is WHAT categorization needs to be made – i.e. which races are inferior and which are superior.

You’re not a white supremacist, J, I’ll give you that, but anyone who believes that humanity is divvied up into biologically determined races that can be ranked as better or worse is quite properly a RACIST.

So again, J, if you think I’m misreading your position here, I’d be happy to hear from you as to what you think.

Thaddeus, while I do not believe that race determines all of an individuals characteristics, there IS a biological basis for “race” There are skeletal and genetic markers that differ between people of different races. Does this biology determine morality, intellect, values?? No. But to say there is no biological basis for race is a fallacy.

The problem lies not with recognizing biological differences between races, it is with extrapolating those biological differences into a hierarchy.

It is not racist to simply acknowledge certain biological markers that indicate race. Racism is prejudice + power. Racism is using those biological differences to assign a status based on them and having the collective power to enforce that hierarchy.

Thanks for the suggestions J. I have been really stepping up my reading…. I have gone from Cornel West and Randall Robinson to Neely Fuller Jr., Del Jones and Dr. Frances Cress-Welsing in the past few months. Definitely some eye opening material.

First of all, Ju, no, there are no skeletal markers for different races – at least in the way you probably think about races (“black”, “white” and etc.).

Secondly, like most people who make these sort of comments, you seem to think that “no races” means “all humans are biologically the same”. That’s emphatically not the case.

The fact of the matter, Ju, is that there are patterns to human biology, but these patterns cannot in any way be broken down into homogenous, stable, genetically congruent, subspecies – which is, of course, what “race” originally meant.

What it comes down to is this: races don’t exist among humans not because we are all alike; they don’t exist among humans because we are too different.

The world’s foremost human genetics specialist, Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza, estimates that if we were to divide humanity up according to naturally occuring genetically consistent breeding pools, we’d have anywhere from 1,000,000 to 10,000,000 “races” on the planet. There are now some cynical folks out there trying to re-brand “race” as precisely this sort of human bio-patterning, but this is pouring new wine into old bottles. The race concept as historically defined quite clearly presumed that humanity can be divvied up into a few, stable and homogenous sub-species. That theory has been completely trashed by modern genetics and we have nothing at all to gain by using its name as a lable for the small, shifting, non-homogenous kind of genetic groupings which do indeed exist among humans.

It is not racist to simply acknowledge certain biological markers that indicate race.

True. Believing in the existence of human biological races alone is not racism: is is properly termed racialism. It becomes “racism” when that belief is coupled to a belief that said races can be organized heirarchically (as J and RR believe). It becomes classic “white supremacy” when you place the white race at the top of that heirarchy (RR) and “Aryanism” when you place the Aryan race at the top of that heirarchy.

And yes, you can have white supremacism without racism, in spite of what you might think.

Many of the hardcore Stormfront/KKK people have now become culturalists, in fact. They’ll tell you straight out that blacks aren’t inferior PHYSICALLY to whites, but are inferior CULTURALLY. The “left-liberal” wing of these nutters (if we can classify folks who are essentially fascist as ‘left-liberal” in any way, shape, or form) will even go so far as to say that this supposed cultural inferiority was created by slavery and not by anything primordial in African cultures themselves.

Racism is prejudice + power. Racism is using those biological differences to assign a status based on them and having the collective power to enforce that hierarchy.

Yeah, I learned that in my freshman African-American Studies courses 25 years ago, too, Ju. That is, of course, the U.S. social sciences dogma regarding racism (Mira, take note: this is what kids get taught in Soc: 101 classes in the States). As far as it goes, I think it’s OK for a layman’s understanding of race.

But.

There’re two major problems with that definition, which we can no longer avoid. First of all, it uses an increasingly obsolete and ultimately Marxist reification of “power”.

I mean, what is “collective power”, exactly? I think minimally we need to take Foucault seriously when we think about power: one does not “have” power. Collectivities certainly do not “have” power as collectivities themselves are not actors and it is reifying to believe that they are.

Secondly, where do we draw the boundary lines around the collectivities that supposedly “have” this power? Are they families? Neighborhoods? Tribes? Nation-states? Entire races (and how do we define those races)?

Let’s take the situation in Rwanda for an example of where this “just-so story” definition of race falls down.

The Tutsis and Hutus do indeed qualify each other as biologically seperate peoples (and were qualified as such by European colonials) and do indeed arrange those qualifications hierarchically. For years, the Tutsi (who had been favored by the colonial Belgians) held power and used it to disenfranchise the Hutu. In 1994, the Hutu paid them back big time through a stunning display of what we can both probably agree was “collective power”.

So was that racism?

The problem is that we’re thinking of racism generally using tools that were developed following Marxist beliefs that the world can be divided into more-or-less cohesive entities that are eternally and irredeemably in conflict with one another and which have homogenous interests. Marx and Engels called these entities “classes”. Many if not most black activists take the same sort of analysis but swap in “race” for class. This is basically what Angela Davis did make in the day, under the mentorship of Herbert Marcuse.

I think it’s high time we started breaking out of this essentially 19th century philosophical mold when it comes to thinking about racism, though obviously we don’t want to go tossing the baby out with the bathwater here.

@JAs a Black guy I cannot be a ‘White Supremacist’, because I am not ‘White’.

What part of “You are a racist but hardly a white supremacist” are you having trouble understanding, J? 😀

As for racism and White supremacy. As I said previously they are more or less the same thing…

Sorry, no they aren’t.

…with the latter operating on a global level, as defined by African centred scholars.

African-centered scholars like your pal Bradley (Aryanist and anti-semite) or afrocentric like the jolly gentlemen over at Metapedia, an aryanist site that you’ve repeatedly linked us to as a decent resource on race ?

Or is this your fall back afrocentrism we’re talking about here? The one that goes “Any author J likes is afrocentric, no matter how obviously 19th century European his beliefs”? 😀

What I cannot understand is why you as a racist feel the need to ‘convert’ any Black person who has a radical persuasion different to your own.

First of all, J, unlike you, I don’t subscribe to tired European political theories from the 19th century. I don’t see all discussion as an attempt to “convert” people. I mostly simply write to articulate what I think is true. Take it or leave it.

As for “radical persuaion”, I don’t see anyone posting here with one of those, J. You’re laughably reactionary – so much co that you don’t even realize, most of the time, that you’re parroting Victorian European concepts. Me? I’m hardly radical. Pretty much everyone posting here is comfortably middle-class and well-educated by global standards and I hardly doubt that their going to go out, firebrand in hand, to overturn the established order.

About the only RADICAL here – in the sense of doing something new and unheard of – is Abagond, who manages this raucous zoo with a pretty fair hand.

1. You read the Bell Curve when RR showed you had not
2. You read and quoted the Meltzer book from a Brazilian musuem – but somehow you cannot find your way there or the book
3. You were reading from a miniscule pc

and now

4. You troll aryanist sites – but also at the same time you are not trying to convert anyone.

Then what are you doing on those Aryan sites…Allow me to guess defending similar racist ideas like your comrades on these sites

Thad— NO OTHER culture PRIOR to “Westernization” aka Europeanization (did I just make up a word??) EVER participated in violence and oppression on such a widespread scale as white people have. There is NO denying that, it is a FACT. Instead of trying to defend yourself and PROVE that other races as “just as racist” as whites, ACCEPT the truth and DO SOMETHING to change it for the future of humanity.

JuJuBe, PLENTY of other peoples have acted like first-class douchebags before so-called “westernization”. The beliefe that humanity was all sweetness and light before the big, bad white guys came along is properly termed “romanticism” and it is, in and if itself, a European philosophy – and not a very savory one at that.

As for “widespread”, I’ll give you that… But wait: are you saying that, say, the Slavs and the Irish (who are certainly white) are somehow equally responsible for the conquest of Africa as, say, the Portuguese, Dutch, French and English?

As for other races being “just as racist” as the whites… Hell, I don’t have a “racismometer” so I couldn’t tell you how groups quantify in that respect. Frankly, I believe that the mayhem caused by, sya, the English and Belgians was much worse than that causde by the Hutus.

But all the rhetoric in the world, Ju, won’t change one single solitary fact: racism, as you yourself has said, is the belief that humanity can be divided up into heirarchically organized supspecies.

THAT belief is quite well diffused across humanity by now, Ju. One doesn’t have to be white to believe that sort of crap, unfortunately.

Sorry that doesn’t jibe with your dogmas, friend, but there it is. Ignoring it isn’t going to make the world a better place for the future of humanity.

Ok, let’s take things slowly. This IS going to be a long comment (sorry, J). I was offline last night and there are so many new comments.

JuJuBe

I don’t know if you read comments before mind. I am sorry if my comment made it seem I believe black women are angry or hate white women or whatever. I don’t believe that. Like others pointed out, my angry comment was directed at J and things he implied. That’s why I put his words in ” – that is not something I believe in.

Furthermore, I never commented on the state in the black community in a way that I was telling people what to do, believe or how to act. I was merely asking questions. I don’t really know much about black community or white community so I ask. If you think that I am forbidden to be interested in these matters, fair enough, but the owner of his site newer asked me to leave or not participate in

I know what is like when members of a dominant culture wants to tell people of your culture what to do, what kind of people you are, when they want to “help”, when they treat you like a mindless, inferior crap. I’d never do that to anybody else.

In any case, my reply was directed at J and his complete logic fail, in which he implied I got a pass for being a white woman and that black women hate on white women- while he was the only one attacking me here and I never had any conflict with any black woman here (even if we disagree on what we write) or a hate vibe. So his logic fails. That is all I wanted to say- that what he wrote didn’t make any sense.

What I find interesting is that you live in aWhite country with no Blacks by your own admission.

So therefore you should not be ‘familiar’ with those racist attitudes that one finds in a ‘racist society’.

It’s not that simple. There are two factors you must take into account: a different type of racism and globalization.

Because no blacks live in my country, the type of racism we have is different than the racism people have in multiracial countries. It’s so called “pre-contact” racism. Most of us never met a black person so we don’t have much of an opinion what a black person is like. Blacks are no threat to us, our mothers don’t tell us “don’t bring home a black guy”. There’s also no white guilt: my people were never slave owner, we were the slaves! So we have a history of being the oppressed ones and not the oppressors. So any racism in my culture is very, very different than those in the west. You can’t even imagine (and you obviously are not interested in learning about it).

On the other hand, globalization makes western attitudes about racism known even in my country. Whenever I watch an American film, for example, I am being fed the stereotypes about races. Racism is built in the Americna culture so by globalization it becomes part of my own culture too. But it’s not the same as in America or the west.

It’s not the same because we don’t know what is really like in the west- all we get is a skewed image that we can’t interpret the way a westerner can because we don’t share the same culture as westerners. So American movies and TV series send us a view of America that might not be true at all (not about racism, about everything). So whenever somebody actually go to America, he or she is often disappointed and always surprised- because true America is different than the one shown in the movies.

The same goes for portrayal of blacks. Movies feed me with stereotypes, but I can’t interpret them the same way a westerner can. For example, a westerner watch a movie in which a main character (white woman) has a loyal, safely black best friend. Black audience cringes. White audience interprets this as the way blacks should be, even though they know (from personal experience) many blacks are not like that (if nothing else, they know blacks often stick together and have best friends in their own group). Audience in my country knows nothing about this. What we see we think it’s true. The way we interpret it is that it’s usual for a black person in America to make white friends more than black ones.

Maybe it’s a stupid example, but hopefully it makes sense.

However, you have the same ‘racist attitudes” as those born and raised within a racist society.

Examples, please.

I know you are keen to deny White people are ‘evil’, being White’ yourself.

Not really. I never said whites weren’t evil (or were) evil- I just said that your comment in the form of “you’re white and therefore evil” doesn’t answer my question, and the question was: what aspects of my views on race you find confusing.

Irrespective of whether Whites are evil or not?? What cannot be denied is how pervasive White racist/Supremacy attitude is prevalent – and you are a prime example in this instance.

Examples, J.

You can’t say anything similar to “it’s obvious you don’t know what your talking about” without providing an example on WHAT I said that you find questionable.

There IS NO biological basis for race. Like Thad already explained, it’s not because we are “all the same” but because humans are genetically way too different to be put in races, that is, distinctive and absolute subspecies. There are no absolute genetic markers that would make race definition easy in a way of: “white person is somebody who has X, Y and Z markers, and not A,B, and C ones”. It would mean that these markers are something that each and every one white people have, but none of the people of other races. It doesn’t work that way.

What we see as races is a cultural construct made in specific time and place in history, and with specific needs. There’s no biological reason for it. Oh sure, Dolph Lundgren and Yaphet Kotto have different physical features- anybody can see that- but there are physical differences between Dolph Lundgren and Robert Downey Jr. So why are they Dolph and Yaphet considered to be of different races, but not Dolph and Robert? There is NO biological reason for it to be so. Basing a race difference on skin colour is no more logical than basing it on eye colour (in which case many whites would be considered the same race as most of the blacks, and everybody would see that as “logical” and “natural”.

I no longer have the energy to respond.
Even if I did the answer I give would not be a sincere response on my part.

The thing when you talk to White people about racism, especially those of the ‘liberal persuasion’ is that Black people can find themselves talking till they are ‘blue’ in the face – and even then the point is not understood.

Its a regular feature off life and also on this board too.

As I have said on this blog previously. Those Whites who will be sufficiently removed from racism that it can be significant effective,will prove to be the ‘exception’ rather than the norm.

Even if I did the answer I give would not be a sincere response on my part.

Why? Why would you lie to me?

The thing when you talk to White people about racism, especially those of the ‘liberal persuasion’ is that Black people can find themselves talking till they are ‘blue’ in the face – and even then the point is not understood.

The problem is, J, you already decided who am I and what are my beliefs based solely on the fact I’m white.

EVEN WHEN I AGREE WITH YOU (and it happens more often that you’d like to admit) you tell me I’m a white supremacist. I say whites treat blacks as crap and you call me a white supremacist. It did happen here and we all know it. Just search the old replies.

On the other hand, you constantly fail to answer any question I might ask, and you constantly hide behind your own privilege.

PS-You have an energy to respond to fight with Thad in long posts full of links but now you suddenly don’t want to give me the time of the day and reply to my comments.

Like any other commentator here , I have ‘judged’ you according to your OWN words, on a computer screen.

What words? Those where I agree with you? 😉

The thing is, J, you are not here to have a discussion. Whenever somebody says something about anything that you don’t agree with, you label them as a white supremacist (if white) or a race traitor (if black). Yes, it’s simple as that.

Note that the disagreement doesn’t have to be about race at all; it can be about anything not even related to race, and you’ll still do it.

“The thing is, J, you are not here to have a discussion. Whenever somebody says something about anything that you don’t agree with, you label them as a white supremacist (if white) or a race traitor (if black). Yes, it’s simple as that.”

Its not ad hominems if one can demonstrate through reasoning that one endorses White centred values, or in your case lacks race consciousness and hates Black African-American males in favour of White males.

If what I say is not correct, you should be able to defend your position accordingly, and show me where this is not the case.

I stand by what I said and you are very fortunate that Abagond incorrectly chose to remove my comments. Since he cannot demonstrate that my words were ad hominems.

The problem that you face is that I am essentially using the words you wrote about yourself.

It may have been ‘okay’ to use those words to condemn your own Black American male counterpart.

However, you should not take ‘umbrage’ when a mirror is then shown the contradictory nature of your position

The thing when you talk to White people about racism, especially those of the ‘liberal persuasion’ is that Black people can find themselves talking till they are ‘blue’ in the face – and even then the point is not understood.

Ever notice how J always wusses out when someone asks him to put his money where his mouth is?

I mean, here’s J, tossing out ad hominems left and right about how Mira and I are racist (apparently simply for being white) and how I’m an evil liberal (or is that a fascist?)

When asked to show us EXACTLY what he means by this, J hems and haws and basically says “Well, you’re white and don’t agree with me, so you must be these things.”

Then Mira asks him to show us some examples of where and how she’s “defending whites” or being a white supremacist.

All of a sudden, J gets tired and worn out and starts complaining that it’s impossible to get whites to listen to or really understand him.

You’re wrong J: both Mira and I have been very carefully listening to you and I think we understand you pretty well.

For myself, I’ll say that I think your one of the most talented bullsh&&&ers that I’ve ever met online. I mean, you got to have brass balls the size of the London Bridge to claim – as you have repeatedly done – that aryanist anti-semites are in fact “afro-centric thinkers”.

My personal problem with you J is that you’re a shallow thinker with a long line of bulls&& and the ability to use Google. Your only response to any critique made of your thoughts is to trot out the good old race card. Hell, even when it comes to dealing with black feminists, it ultimately comes back to the fact that you believe that they are race traitors (probably because no right-thinking black woman would ever give you more than the time of day).

Hell, I bet you have a race-based explanation for absolutely everything in this world, including for what football team you root for. I bet that if I were to contradict your belief that vindaloo is the greatest take-out in the human history, you’d ascribe that to white racist eurocentrism as well.

You’re a one trick pony, J and it’s really a shame because it’s obvious that you have a good head on your shoulders. But until you get beyond this infantile, neo-Marxian belief that being a member of an oppressed class means that your sh&& doesn’t stink, you’re not going to do much more on life than colonize the internet while whining about racist oppression.

One of the reason because academically, you do not know any critique of say Diop’s two cradle theory and/or Cress theory to explain the phenomena of White racism.

Even I’m aware of the ‘critique’ of these theories.

What Thad and yourself then proceed to do is to give reasons why YOU think it is false, but there is nothing academic which is brought forth to the table.

Actually, both Mira and I have pointed out the problems with “cradle of civilization” theory in general on a couple of occasions.

Diop believes that sub-saharan Africa was just as important as the mediterranean basin in developing what we now call civilization. There’s no deep afrocentric or unusual thing there, J.

I’d say that recent archeological research supports him, as far as that goes.

The problem with hsi theory is the persistent belief – rooted in 19th century Victorian thought, I might add – that “civilization” spreads from well-defined and discrete cradles.

Now what kind of “academics” do you want brought to the table on this point, J? The many (many, many) modern archeologists who see Egyptian civilization as developing in the middle of “golden crescent” of human economic and cultural activity that stretches from Mesopotamia down to the Sudan?

OR the academics who now believe that nothing as complicated as “civilization” springs up over night in a limited area, that anything as complicated as this needs must be the result of widespread, complex interactions, one of which is necessarily long-distance trade (a belief which means that “cradle” might not only stretch south into Africa, but all the way over into what’s now China, too)?

In short, J, there are plenty of authors out there who no longer believe that “civilization”, however we describe it, can be understood as a relatively localized phenomena.

Personally I have observed something in your comments, where if you are speaking ‘ill’ of groups its the Black American males and White women generally. There is no ‘kind words’

However, when you are speaking of other groups. You always speak in high regard viz. of ‘White males’ and then there is ‘a reasonable tone’ akin to Mira and Thad, which you constantly keep repeating ‘White race’ are not ‘evil’.

Perhaps because I do not speak out with the same ‘ferocity’ as you regarding White females. You then suggest I like them – even though I am not in an IRR.

Or perhaps, it is a knee-jerk mechanism to deflect attention away from yourself?? (ie a smokescreen).

Personally, I would go for the latter

Be that as it may for now.

It is from these comments which I call ‘facts’ that I tried to find an underlying reason to the processes of whyt you like certain groups. Abagond suggested following your lead incorrectly surmises they were ad homineims.

Personally I think it is fair and reasonable for a commentator to question why would a fellow poster only like White males, speak reasonably well about the White race group, but never about their females.

This notwithstanding your position regarding Africans on the continent, from which you are descended.

And this is what I did, and those comments were deleted, even though I was prepared for them to be deleted as a good-will gesture but NOT because they were ad hominems.

J- I wanted to let you know that I ordered the book you suggested by Marimba Ani. I actually have a friend I have been speaking to since January who has helped expose me to a lot of authors and books written from an African perspective, which has been really eye opening for me. I asked him about the book you suggested and he informed me that Marimba Ani is looked at as a “revered elder”, and requested that when I finish the book I pass it on to him. I will, but if it is as good as I suspect it will be, I may have to purchase a second copy to refer back to. Do you blog anywhere I can check out??

J- Since I am relatively new to the world of blogging, I have not really delved that deeply into anything other than personal blogs with a bit of commentary added in. Every thing is pretty “main stream”. If you check out my blog (which is a mix of personal and only mildly political) it has a blog roll of some of what I read.

In case you didn’t notice, I did try to discuss here with you. I asked you question that you decided to ignore and use

Anything I have said I can back up historically, with research. I do not quite see it with Thad and yourself.

Quite contrary, you rarely back up what you say. You do post links, and I give you credit there: you are good at finding interesting articles and links. But the links you post often fail to illustrate what you’re talking about. Still, it is a discussion and it’s a good thing. I’m referring to your posts that don’t help discussion in any form. By saying “you’re wrong because I say so”- but not providing any explanation, even if asked to do that- you are not making any discussion possible. (Regardless if you’re, in fact, right or wrong).

Furthermore, I did post you links, and I did back up historically, archaeologically and anthropologically everything I wrote. You simply chose to ignore it. You say something like: “Whites never question whether Ancient Greece was a white civilization! White supremacists!!!!” and I reply, stating that it’s simply not true- today’s authors talk about this a lot, and all you have to say to that is: “well, that’s just your opinion, because you’re white supremacist”.

That simply doesn’t make discussion possible. Which is a shame, because it IS possible to discuss with you when you forget about the whole “you’re wrong because I say so” trope.

It is clear the race traitor is linked specifically to one commentator here.

Actually, no. You called more than one person “race traitor”. I was under the impression that is the term you use often and that you don’t hide it, just like you don’t hide you call many people white supremacists.

What is interesting is when the commentator chose to castigate American Black males, to the point of distancing herself from them – ie her own race. Your silence was deafening.

This is not true. First of all, I don’t know much about what’s going on among blacks and therefore I can’t speak about it (even though JuJuBe accused me of doing it). I did speak about black womens’ rights, but I fail to see how that makes trashing black men.

In fact, I was spammed several times for defending black men here (for the simple fact I said I find them attractive), I’ve been called race traitor and a self hater. But I guess you weren’t paying attention.

And one more thing concerning this matter (namely, Natasha’s comments). You wrote to her:

Personally I have observed something in your comments, where if you are speaking ‘ill’ of groups its the Black American males and White women generally. There is no ‘kind words’.However, when you are speaking of other groups. You always speak in high regard viz. of ‘White males’ and then there is ‘a reasonable tone’ akin to Mira and Thad.

And Mira is suddenly not a white woman? Member of a group Natasha allegedly hates?

This is between you and Natasha, I understand. But I just had to point out, because it’s a good example of a “logic fail” in your writing.

1.Who have I called a ‘race traitor’, its not a word i use in my vocabulary, let alone day to day.

2. With regard to links:

“But the links you post often fail to illustrate what you’re talking about.”

Would it not be safe to say from that your educational background the links go against eurocentricism, and you do not accept the afrocentric position. Something you are not generally supportive of.

One spring to mind

a. When I produced a link by Apum to show that the Table of Nations has been manipulated by Whites scholars. You still insisted that Egyptians and Nubians were NOT denoted the same. Even though that site revealed a lot more information about the Table than known generally

I think you should be able to see this on ‘How Black Were The Ancient Egyptian thread’

As for any other examples, since this is a regular feature of sommething that I do. It should be pretty easy for you to bring forth some concrete examples. So we can test the validity of what you say is true, or whether it is vain imaginations, as it pertains to 2??

1.Who have I called a ‘race traitor’, its not a word i use in my vocabulary, let alone day to day.

I remember you called Natasha race traitor and also Thad’s wife. Also, your comments made me believe that is the term you use frequently, that it’s something you use to label people just like you use “white supremacist”. If I’m wrong and if this is ad hominem, I am sorry, but then you should explain your reasons for calling somebody a race traitor (or a white supremacist) better.

2. With regard to links:

“But the links you post often fail to illustrate what you’re talking about.”

Would it not be safe to say from that your educational background the links go against eurocentricism, and you do not accept the afrocentric position. Something you are not generally supportive of.

No, I’m not talking about interpretations. Let’s face it, J: whatever your profession is, it’s not anything related to social science or humanities. You simply don’t know much about it, even if you are interested in reading about afrocentrism. It’s your right; nobody says you must be an anthropologist to state your opinion. However, since you are not an social scientist, you sometimes fail to understand what a certain text is about. It did happen more than once that you provided a link that didn’t illustrate your point or a link in which an author, for example, had an eurocentric position that you thought was afrocentric.

It did happen more than once that you recommended work by a white supremacist (and called those who didn’t share views expressed there white supremacist).

a. When I produced a link by Apum to show that the Table of Nations has been manipulated by Whites scholars. You still insisted that Egyptians and Nubians were NOT denoted the same. Even though that site revealed a lot more information about the Table than known generally

I remember that. As I remember, I didn’t deny the possibility of a white conspiracy (if wouldn’t be the first time they did something like that)- all I tried to point out was that, Table of Nations or not, Egyptians made clear in many other sources that they DID NOT see Nubians as “one of their own”.

Also, whether Nubians were physically similar to Egyptians (in skin colour for example) is irrelevant because, as we discussed here for more than one time, races as we know it today didn’t exist back then.

1. This is an outright lie on your part and bespeaks of the conversation I was having with King, where individuals will use language to draw ‘inferences’ that are not there.

And in your case use language maliciously to serve your own ends

What I said of both parties is that they lack race-consciousness/BSWM.

And if you want a reason, I can back it up accordingly. So its not just me hurling out abuse at the parties concerned, but rather it is based on ‘critical analysis’

2. I am glad you remember the Apum conversation because you did not offer any valid reason apart from suggesting that it could not be so. I would surmise because you are against such Afrocentric scholarship generally, and because it goes against what you have learnt.

I think I will leave it there for now since I am going to see if I can find the conversation.

So we can be very clear and precise with regard to language – as King & I (isn’t that a film??) was discussing on another thread.

I’m beginning to wonder if you ever in fact read books, J. As opposed, you know, to blurbs on Amazon.com.

You always speak in high regard viz. of ‘White males’ and then there is ‘a reasonable tone’ akin to Mira and Thad, which you constantly keep repeating ‘White race’ are not ‘evil’.

Ahn. I see now. Claiming that white people are not necessarily evil is racist. Because any true scientist knows that any group of a billion or so human beings obviously has the same exact political and cultural beliefs and that these beliefs can be perceived simply through looking at the quantity of melanin in their skin.

Gee, J, how scientific. You’re right: it’s amazing that anyone would have the racist gall to claim that your “white people are evil” hypothesis could be racist in even the slightest degree.

Wait a second, Thad– you come on here acting like you are this supreme intellectual and you really believe that in order for a a theory to be tied to white supremacy the person whose theory it is has to EXPLICITLY mention white supremacy??? Come on now, I have not read the theory mentioned but ANY individual with an inkling of intelligence should be able to make ties between theories and practices without having to have it spelled out for them. I am reading a book about American history right now. It does not explicitly mention the words “white supremacy” but it is not too difficult to see it in action!

@JI think the word ‘ties’ acts as a conjunction between Diop and White Supremacy. Have a re-read of the sentence.

Yeah, I know, J: YOU feel that Diop is explaining something that he never talked about and thus I somehow don’t understand Diop because I’m not telepathic and thus can’t figure out whatever wierd little scenario you’re running in your brain regarding the man’s works.

@Ju
Oh, heavens! I’m acting as if I know something regarding a topic I’ve actually studied for years, in and out of the university. Holy crap! How arrogant can a guy get?

Regarding your comments, yeah, I think that if Diop believed that his “two cradle theory” somehow explained white supremacy, he’d have said that. Intellectuals are notorious for that sort of thing, you know.

But hell, go ahead and fantasize whatever you want about the man. As long as we’re presuming things that Diop DIDN’T say, why don’t you just rare back and tell us about how he really believed that white people were invaders from the 9th dimension? I mean, nothing in his writings says anything about this, but as long as we’re going to be making stuff up and whining that others don’t understand the man’s works because they want to restrict themselves to what he actually SAID…

[Roll eyes]

Come on now, I have not read the theory…

Well there’s yet another thing that you and J have in common then.

But heck, JuJu, don’t let the fact that you haven’t actually read an author stop you from berating me over my supposed misinterpretation of what he says. I mean who needs to read books when you can just make up anything you want about them, right? 😛

Ummm Thad if you actually READ my comment, you will see that I do not claim to KNOW what Diop meant by his work, since I have not read it. I simply said that something does not have to be EXPLICITLY stated in someone’s work for it to be SUPPORTED and IN EVIDENCE. That is a general commentary. If you CANNOT read between the lines and relate theory to the real world in ANY article, book, paper, etc, then you are missing out on half of the message.

And Thad, read J’s message again too because obviously you were clueless the first time around. Saying that a theories ties into white supremacy IS NOT saying the author is a white supremacist, it is saying that there is a correlation between the information in the theory and the fact of white supremacy.

“Personally I have observed something in your comments, where if you are speaking ‘ill’ of groups its the Black American males and White women generally. There is no ‘kind words’”

I haven’t said anything about white women that I haven’t said about white men. Which is that the majority of both are racist.

I have many “positive” comments about black males outside of this thread. But you choose to focus on the negative and conjure up conspiracies… well, that’s not really my issue.

“However, when you are speaking of other groups. You always speak in high regard viz. of ‘White males’ and then there is ‘a reasonable tone’ akin to Mira and Thad, which you constantly keep repeating ‘White race’ are not ‘evil’.”

Yes, because saying most white males are racist is speaking in high regard of them… Do you read before you comment?

I don’t think whites are evil and rotten to the core, nope. Sorry. That includes the males and females, in case you try to make it seem as if I am coddling one gender.

“Perhaps because I do not speak out with the same ‘ferocity’ as you regarding White females. You then suggest I like them – even though I am not in an IRR.”

Sure you’re not.

In case you forgot how “ferociously” you defended white women, you might want to check this post again:

While the woman in question is Jewish so maybe does not count as a white woman in the eyes of some, she is very decidedly in the priviledged and powerful class within her culture. And while i dont approve of people who would misrepresent themselves to those they want to get with… Come on, this this story beggars belief. Men tell lies to get in womens pants. not all men but some. we women know this. The fact that she slept with him so few minutes after meeting him, makes any claim of innocence on her part moot. A date or two would have exposed his lying.

Also the Elizabeth Hassellbeck examples are great examples of this. And the delusional girl around election time who scratched BO into her cheeks while looking into a mirror and pretended mean black thugs had done it, even though mean black thugs would not have scratched it backwards, mirror style. I dont know how come it is so easy for us to side with our oppressors, when white women are oppressed too, albeit at an entirely different level. Perhaps the behavior that led to those ‘kind and gentle examples of womanhood’ to be able to stand by and WATCH lynchings with no concern, save excitement at the merriment of the ocassion is some sort of variation on the stockholm syndrome. Or maybe we are in some sort of denial of our oppression? This is something that I wonder about poor white MEN as well. How can working class men look at blacks and mexicans as threats when the actual threat is the rich white man who does not give a damn if you live or die, as long as you work for him cheap?

I would like to think that that a great many of us white women consider elizabeth hassellbeck and her ilk scum.

Just curious – why did the posters – the ones originally sticking to the issue – allow themselves to be derailed by those who want to make it all about BM (we’re the bigger victims!) and white supremacists? Skip those comments and stick to the issue. If you ignore them they’ll be talking to themselves pretty soon.

Hmm, what to say. I stumbled across this photo as I searched the net for healthy women…not sure why this picture popped up.
However, when it did I squinted and thought, no that can’t be what I’m seeing. Of course, I clicked on the photo and then felt sick. So I closed out the photo and found this blog underneath.
Here’s my white woman opinion of the blog (I did not read all of the comments). Seeing that picture doesn’t make me want to cry, I have never been a crier despite my color. Seeing that photo pisses me off, almost as much as it saddens me. To think that a human being could do that to another human being just sickens me. Those men have families, loved ones, they had a life and it was their’s to live. Why anyone would ever think it was OK to hurt another human mystifies me. This is way beyond hurt though, isn’t it? Every single one of those people standing in that crowd should have been hung along side those men. Two wrongs don’t make a right but IMO those people cannot be salvaged. To stand by, possibly even participate, and smile even!!
I noticed that hanging wasn’t fun enough for these white @$#%@(I will respect the comment rules and not swear), no they had to torture and beat these men first. May they rest in peace.
I really wish I hadn’t come across that photo, I just want to throw up. However, it is our history, what was done to your people by our people. It can’t be ignored, erased or fixed. I would never ever stand by as something like that happened. I guess that’s why God put me here in the 70’s..I probably would have murdered for thinking it should be ok to just be human. Period.

On the usage of the N word I have heard white people and they were white males and I called them out on it. They apologized for it. But the people I have the most problem with using the N word are Asians. Usually whites seem to try to be more politically correct and say African American and stuff. Actually, I’ve never been called N***er except by a Korean guy. White girls I have come into contact with just act bitchy. I haven’t seen them cry. Well once I made a white girl cry in High School (nothing on race) but she apologized and we made up. But, yea, I don’t think I have ever experience the white girls tears.

As far as Elizabeth Hasselb*tch…yea, she is just crying because she can’t use the word.

[…] people generally see black women as “mannish”, so a white, male White Knight typically rushes to aid a white woman, but not a black woman, even when the white woman is the aggressor towards the black woman. Racial stereotypes can […]

My experience with the Classic Scene: The first time a particularly obnoxious white female co-worker saw my hair in an Afro, she ran up squealing, completely eliminated my personal space, used both hands to grab either side of my hair and pull and screeched, “Ooooh, look at you! I’m gonna go get my makeup and use your head to put it on.”
*record scratches to a halt*
I’ve had comments before (since we come from outer space and all), but never this kind of flagrant foul. Though she was clearly in violation, if I protest along comes the “hypersensitive angry black woman” label. I told her in no uncertain terms that she had just committed a MAJOR violation, that I was not the resident of a petting zoo and that under no circumstances should she repeat her behavior EVER again. She burst into tears, screaming “But I’m not one of THOSE PEOPLE!” and ran dramatically from the room. Then everyone turns and looks at me like I’m some sort of monster for making her cry. No one could believe what I had just done to HER. Long story short, my rep is now Angry Black Woman who made poor ___ cry. Meanwhile, the catalytic event might as well never have happened.
*sighs & understands*

Its a shame this conversation isn’t based in a discussion on how terrible human beings treat each other. To pinpoint white women as the cause for racist oppression, or to blame one group as being more racist than another is the reason we have these prejudices in the first place. Its two sides of the same coin.

A conversation that gets to the heart of the issue is a discussion in how people try to use power over another and why as humans we feel we need to do that. Why is the use of power so attractive? Why are we as humans afraid of those different than us? All humans around the world separate themselves in fear and abuse out of false ideas of power.

All humans stereotype in order to make their worldview make sense even if their stereotypes only perpetuate and create the problems we face. Just like this blog.

I can’t stand how a white woman’s racism is swept under the rug by society.
I notice that a lot of threads on topics saying vile things about black women are started by white women. To make matters worse black men join the white women in their slandering of black women.

laromana says,
Pamela,
Your comment is totally on point. The fact is that along with those WW who play the EWB (entitled White B–h) card, ANTI-BW BM are to blame for condoning/promoting ANTI-BW HATE/HATERS, instead of defending the humanity, dignity, and femininity of their SAME RACE women.

Pamela says,
I can’t stand how a white woman’s racism is swept under the rug by society.
I notice that a lot of threads on topics saying vile things about black women are started by white women. To make matters worse black men join the white women in their slandering of black women.

Interesting blog posts United states anglo-european constants…all of which are done to maintain the status quo. For more information read:
-White like me
-The isis papers
-the falsification of afrikan consciousness
-Sundown Towns (Dr. James Loewen)
-The new jim crow
-Dirty little secrets about black history

I have tried to stand up to racism in the past when I have been around white people and I have either A. been ignored or B. been lectured that ‘said comment or action wasn’t racist’, it really is more trouble than it’s worth mentioning prejudice or racism around ‘most’ but not all white people.

Absolutely not — in my opinion. The proof is just days before her (unethical) release, the “system” executed (murdered) a black man who all evidence pointed to his innocence.

The white supremacy system is dedicated to demonstrating its contempt for non-white life and one of the ways is allowing whites to break the law and get away with it. I don’t know if most folks are aware that Knox actually tried to pin the murder on a black man but fortunately, he was able to provide a solid alibi,

Now, if she wasn’t guilty, why would she attempt to frame someone else? that’s not logical.

In the book, Trojan Horse: Death of a Dark Nation, there are some chapters on the white female phenomenon, called the “Dead White Women’s Club” and how the white supremacy system uses the white female “damsel in distress” to promote racism and false “white victimization.” You should check it out

You know, as much as I have been disagreeing with you in other posts, I think you’re dead on here, having experienced this myself on two occasions, on one of which the white girl made several racist comparisons on the negative “similarities” of Mexicans and aboriginal people, of which I am both. Just like here, when I called her out she started to cry, and I became the bad guy quicker than Barack Obama on the Bill O’Reilly show after his election, and bombarded with accusations ranging from overreaction, to ME being a racist for picking on her ” just because she was white.”

This blog is great. It has helped me to realize that it’s correct to hate black people. They ask for it. Now I know exactly why I have always distrusted them. Give them the Internet and they quickly expose themselves.

I know you’ve been ID’d as a sockpuppet, but I must respond. I feel so sorry for you, but on the other hand I am grateful for your comments. Your words confirm many things that are posted on this blog.

White woman’s tears- yeah, I know this one too. During a high school reunion, surrounded by white people sharing their high school experiences, the topic was about a popular girls clothing store in town, and how fun it was to work there.

I interjected a separate and well known reality of the young black girls of the same community, that was the white owner (who was also a part of this circle of reminiscing) didn’t hire non-white girls to work at the store. The white woman standing closest to me(wife and now co-owner), burst into tears (as if on cue) and ran to the bathroom.
Back in the day, when I was more confused, I followed her into the bathroom to see if she was alright. She told me: ” I didn’t think anybody knew!”

The reaction by the circle was swift and threatening. A person would have thought I punched her in the nose. I was asked to leave the dinner when I came from being in the bathroom.

“and Lara, how can you avoid a group that you have to interact with on a daily basis because they’re one of the largest ethnic groups in the country?”

Minne belongs to a mostly white church and attended a mostly white high school reunion. These are two places there is no reason to go to unless one wants to. I don’t go out of my way to avoid black people, because I don’t find it difficult to get along with them and I don’t take offense to every little thing they say. Minne seems to be much more emotionally fragile than I am and she should therefore try to minimize her actions with whites. We seem to really rub her the wrong way.
I know a black woman who has worked at a pharmacy for many years, one that I was fired from because I wasn’t the best worker, so I don’t want to hear about how pharmacies won’t hire black people.

That damn Lara cracks me up so much. I swear she,he, it is a freaking comic.
But for the life of me why don’t people just ignore the TROLLS!?!
To answer my own question I guess as proudchocolategirl points out, their sheer numbers DEMAND that we MUST interact with them. No matter where we find ourselves real world or virtual world:( so sad

Not really. I haven’t really seen any good examples of it yet. I do sympathize with black people who are having trouble finding work. Honestly, I’d be reluctant to hire a black person if I thought any time there was a disagreement between us it would be turned into a racial issue. Unfortunately blacks have a reputation of being problem employees and this is a shame for the ones who really are good workers.

abagond,
I have no idea, I don’t know other people’s thoughts and white people don’t discuss race with each other much. I’m not even sure I know how to define racist. I can only comment on specific situations and tell you if I think someone’s behavior is right or wrong. It isn’t black or white, it is mostly shades of grey. I’ll say one thing, though, after reading on here I realize black and white people often see things very differently.

MinnieB gave you two excellent examples of racism, the pharmacy one on this thread and the Boy Scout one on another thread. In one case a pharmacy admits it does not hire blacks and in the other a church has Boy Scout troops segregated by race. Those are clear cases of racism, no mind reading required. Nothing is being “imagined”. How are they NOT cases of racism?

Not really. I haven’t really seen any good examples of it yet. I do sympathize with black people who are having trouble finding work. Honestly, I’d be reluctant to hire a black person if I thought any time there was a disagreement between us it would be turned into a racial issue. Unfortunately blacks have a reputation of being problem employees and this is a shame for the ones who really are good workers.”

Not hiring blacks because of x is racist. Not only is it discrimination, it judges people according to their race. and not case by case.

I didn’t get the impression anyone at the pharmacy admitted they didn’t hire blacks, I think Minne came to that conclusion on her own because they didn’t hire her.
As far as the boys scout troops go, it didn’t involve black people so I don’t understand why a black woman would even care. For all we know it was the Hmong boys that wanted separate troops. If the Hmong boys were the ones who wanted to be in a separate troop would you guys consider it racism?

I think there is a lot to be learned from Lara, if black people would simply accept that she represents the typical (regardless of income or education) white person in a white supremacy system.

Lara is the RULE, not the exception, and she will NEVER snitch on other white people even when she knows the truth: that white people practice racism against blacks and other non-whites on a DAILY basis, and that white people know they benefit from the mistreatment of non-whites and that is why they pretend to be falsely innocence and “clueless.”

No, Lara is not “clueless” or ignorant. She is well aware of what it means to be white, and what it means to NOT be white — which is why she is quick to throw around black stereotypes and insults. This is something she learned at an early age because white people often negatively discuss black people (when no black people are in the room).

This is WHO SHE IS.

The day that black people accept what should be by now a proven FACT that white people collectively are INHERENTLY racist, and that racism is as much a genetic and psychological problem (illness) for whites — as it is a social and political and economic reality/tragedy for blacks, that’s the day we MIGHT get the guts and the wisdom to really do something about it — and them.

I find too many black people (and I’m not addressing anyone in particular) are so eager (and desperate) to believe that Lara is not typical of white people — that we ignore the undeniable evidence that white people GLOBALLY have no intention of stopping the brutal and barbaric practice of subjugating and slaughtering people who are not white aka practicing white supremacy.

Katrina should have been a wake-up call for all the black doubters as to the kind of “racial progress” blacks have made here in America. Oscar Grant’s murder at the hands of a toy cop who walks out of prison after serving less than two years should be a wake-up call for blacks in america. Wesley Snipes sitting in federal prison for a misdemeanor tax conviction should be a wake-up call for blacks in america.

The fact that CNN reported that it was easier for a white man with a criminal record to get a job than a black man with a college degree should be a wake-up call for blacks in america.

The gentrification of countless American cities as increasingly (and deliberately) impoverished and some formerly working class and middle class blacks are being pushed out should be a wake-up for blacks in america.

Black farmers who are still waiting for justice, while wealthy white farmers were just given millions of taxpayer dollars for being white and wealthy should be a wakeup call for blacks in America,

That fact that a black man (Troy Davis) was just executed in Georgia for a crime it was obvious he did not commit while the long arm of American (in)justice reached across the ocean and freed a white female (Amanda Knox) who appeared from the evidence to be guilty of a murder in Italy should be a wake-up call for blacks in America.

and the list is too long for this blog….

Lara’s posts shouldn’t raise any eyebrows or blood pressure. It’s what we should come to expect from racist man and racist woman since we have been dealing with them for over 500 years. It should be obvious by now (for G’s sake) that they are not going to change who they are.

It’s time for us to accept hard, cold reality that black people will have to do the changing, that we have to change how we think, act, and speak when it comes to white people — and that means what ever it means.

At least in America, you can be pretty sure that any white person who is prejudiced against Jews, Latinos, Asians or Native Americans is going to be racist against blacks too, probably even more so. So, yes, there is good reason for a black woman to be concerned about the anti-Asian racism of her church.

AND even if she were white she should STILL be concerned for the simple reason that racism is wrong.

“I interjected a separate and well known reality of the young black girls of the same community, that was the white owner (who was also a part of this circle of reminiscing) didn’t hire non-white girls to work at the store. The white woman standing closest to me(wife and now co-owner), burst into tears (as if on cue) and ran to the bathroom.
Back in the day, when I was more confused, I followed her into the bathroom to see if she was alright. She told me: ” I didn’t think anybody knew!”

The owner’s wife, right there, is admitting to the pharmacy’s racist hiring.

For the sake of clarification (and of course, anyone is free to agree or disagree), I’d like to post my definition of racism:

For one group to practice racism that group must have MORE POWER than another group.Since whites control ALL the major areas of human activity in America —
housing, education, health, entertainment, economics, politics, law, and religion — it is accurate to define all “racism” as “white supremacy.”

White people are the only group in America with the POWER to discriminate (deprive or punish other ethnic groups), and the systems and institutions to maintain the imbalance of power.

For example, rich people are more powerful than poor people. Rich people have the POWER to discriminate against poor people by depriving them of income, promotions, jobs, housing, land, justice, and any other rights – if they choose to do so. Racism is not empty rhetoric (words) or mindless emotion. Racism is social, economic, and political POWER.

In America, whites have the POWER to discriminate against blacks (and other non-whites) by depriving them of income, promotions, jobs, housing, land, justice, and any other rights – if they choose to do so. It doesn’t matter that some whites are poorer than some blacks.

In all things and in all places in America, whites are collectively more powerful than blacks are collectively. This imbalance of (white) power creates the opportunity and the ability to practice racism against non-whites.

Even when a black person mistreats a white person, that is not “racism” or “black supremacy” because black supremacy does not exist. If black people were
collectively more powerful than whites collectively, blacks would have the
power to practice racism. Logically speaking, that would mean the end of
white supremacy because only one thing or person can be “supreme” (the highest ranking) at a time.

If blacks and whites had equal power and resources, there could be no
black supremacy OR white supremacy. Our ability (power) to discriminate
against (mistreat) each other would be canceled out, leaving only two
options: coexist peacefully or destroy each other.

Black people can mistreat white people but that is limited to ONLY what that one black person can physically do to that individual white person. Black people do not have the institutional, or police, or social, or economic, or political, or media engines to collectively affect the lives of white people collectively — which is why we cannot practice racism OR be “racist.”

For those who disagree with this definition or feel that black people can be racist, I always ask this question:

Name one thing that black people – as a group — have stopped white people – as a group — from doing that they had a RIGHT to do? For example, denying them the right to work, own a home, live in a certain area, get a fair trial, an education, or use any public facility.

“I can only comment on specific situations and tell you if I think someone’s behavior is right or wrong. It isn’t black or white, it is mostly shades of grey. I’ll say one thing, though, after reading on here I realize black and white people often see things very differently.”

Baldwin certainly knew what he was talking about!
White author, Lillian Smith’s book, Strange Fruit, describes in great detail how and why white people “see things very differently.” The word is that she does it so painfully well, whites themselves can’t/won’t go near that book, much less offer a comment on it.

“My guess it was the Hmong that wanted it that way, but this decent white man was willing to take the heat.”

Whiteness is demonic!
It is a religion “..like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men’s bones and everything unclean.

Actually, Lara is par for the course in my experience, albeit in varying degrees. I have yet to met any white anti-racist(self-proclaimed) in real life. Who knows? Perhaps ‘Lara’ is throwing out these trite answers on purpose to illustrate this white mindset. To quote my Granny; “No-one is that stupid”! ‘Lara’!, the anti-racist crusader! Perhaps she is this obtuse!

re: “anti-racists” — here’s an excerpt from the book, Trojan Horse: Death of a Dark Nation’

Q: Do non-racist whites benefit from White Supremacy?
A: ALL whites benefit from white privilege in a white supremacy system, even if they are not practicing racism at that moment. It does not matter if they are rich or poor; or whether they admit there is such a thing as white privilege.

Anyone who is classified as “white” in a white supremacy system will always have advantages over someone who is not. Just as a black person in a black supremacy system (if one existed) would have advantages over someone who is not black.

Q: Aren’t some white people opposed to racism?
A: Only if they are saying and doing something to oppose it. For example, John Brown, a white male, encouraged armed insurrection by slaves as a means to end slavery, and as a result, was charged with treason and hanged. However, that does not mean John Brown did not practice racism at an earlier time OR would not have practiced it at a later time had he lived.

Q: Aren’t white anti-racists opposed to racism?
The self-anointed, white anti-racist activist offers little more than lip service. They sacrifice nothing, take no risks, and reap more financial rewards than the black activists fighting in the (real) trenches.

The white anti-racist actually creates more confusion by creating the false illusion that the devastated black masses can be liberated from racism by sitting in a church, auditorium, or conference room listening to a white person — who is still enjoying his or her white privileges — making anti-racism speeches.

It is unlikely that the same white anti-racist activists who profit from writing books and giving speeches about racism — have any real desire (or intent) to destroy the same white supremacy system that allows them to oppose it without losing a single ‘white privilege.’

There may be whites who are sincere about replacing the system of white supremacy with a system of justice, but that number is so statistically small, it is insignificant.

(i hope this post is constructive in this dialog about racism and white people)

My apologies. To me, a troll is a thing. In the dictionary, that classifies as ‘it’ – but, since you wish to coddle them, I will refer to them all as ‘he’ from now on – hopefully that’s the ‘proper’ option.

which seem to be designed to keep black posters on this blog going around and around in a circle chasing their own tails and trying to convince her of what she already knows is true

that white people run it
that white people own it
and that white people’s biggest Wizard of Oz trick
is to convince blacks and non-whites that they are not being mistreated by white people

I call this the “Don’t Snitch On Other White People” syndrome where white people will deliberately deny that racism is going on even when they know and/or are participating in the practice of it

for all we know, Lara’s on someone’s payroll and is being paid to do just that

disrupt the logical flow of black exchange over how to understand and solve the problem of (white) racism.

keep in mind, the internet is a strange, mysterious place….full of spies and saboteurs where people are paid to disrupt any honest or serious dialogue about racism by blacks who are trying to fight our way out of it

No, Lara is not “clueless” or ignorant. She is well aware of what it means to be white, and what it means to NOT be white — which is why she is quick to throw around black stereotypes and insults.

Correct. I have challenged ‘her’ so called white POV on one of the other blogs and have posed questions asking what she understands about racism and examples therein which have been met with silence.

Comments such as:-

Abagond“We know the Hmongs did not want to be separated because whites are so defensive about it”

LaraMy guess it was the Hmong that wanted it that way, but this decent white man was willing to take the heat.

And this…

proudchocolategirl“I see you’re avoiding racism”

LaraNot really. I haven’t really seen any good examples of it yet. I do sympathize with black people who are having trouble finding work. Honestly, I’d be reluctant to hire a black person if I thought any time there was a disagreement between us it would be turned into a racial issue. Unfortunately blacks have a reputation of being problem employees and this is a shame for the ones who really are good workers.

…demonstrate that Lara sees the White POV as the only point of view when presented with a Black POV.

Despite continually calling for more examples of situations and saying that she hasnt seen any ‘good’ examples, of racism, she is still able to find enough credence in the given examples to support and align herself – in these instances, with the White POV and thus effectively trying to undermine the comments and the commenters therein.

Yet she brushes over requests to define her understanding of racism and the context of her understanding therein. Often, as in the example above, she purports to have some comprehension of the situation, even going so far as to ’empathise’ whilst ending her comment, as usual with her own narrow rationale.

Meanwhile affirmative action is ‘uncalled’ for in her world when a black person is trying to be proactive about a situation when they have been discriminated against. But when Lara continually makes barbed and and bigoted comments in response its ok. This is ok of course because Lara is a so called ‘white’ woman and they are not agressive like black people or women in particular. Go figure!

I used to spend hours dialoguing (battling) with whites over racism and I was amazed at how they refused to see what I know they had to see

That’s when it dawned on me that they (white people) don’t see the benefits of “seeing” or “telling” the truth about racism — and that the vast majority are dedicated to maintaining this system of white privilege/white supremacy.

That meant (to me) that I had to stop wasting my time trying to convince white people of anything and spend more time understanding this system and trying to reach other black people about that understanding.

It is time (in my opinion) that black people stop hoping and praying and working so hard to change the hearts of white people and face the fact that they have a huge hole in their hearts and spirits when it comes to anyone who is not white.

there is too much evidence out here for any of us to believe otherwise

African countries “favoring” their own is NOT black supremacy. If the French “favor” other French people is that “French supremacy?”

In addition, African countries are under attack by the European white supremacy system as I write this and have been for hundreds of years, so whatever is happening in Africa is largely a result of WHITE imperialism, WHITE colonialism, and genocide conducted by WHITE people. Witness the recent murder of the Libyan leader by the white West (not the so-called “rebels”)

Let’s be logical here. You read the definition of white supremacy and black supremacy. So let me poise this question directly to you and see if you are capable of a clean, straight forward answer:

If black supremacy exists (in the U.S.)

Name one thing that black people – as a group — have stopped white people – as a group — from doing that they had a RIGHT to do? For example, denying them the right to work, own a home, live in a certain area, get a fair trial, an education, or use any public facility.

“For example, denying them the right to work, own a home, live in a certain area, get a fair trial, an education, or use any public facility.”

For the most part blacks haven’t been denied these things either. Blacks were restricted at one time from living in white neighborhoods, but there were plenty of black neighborhoods so it wasn’t as big a deal as it is sometimes made out to be.

which seem to be designed to keep black posters on this blog going around and around in a circle chasing their own tails and trying to convince her of what she already knows is true.”

and then this –

crammasters

@ Lara
…

“Name one thing that black people – as a group — have stopped white people – as a group — from doing that they had a RIGHT to do? For example, denying them the right to work, own a home, live in a certain area, get a fair trial, an education, or use any public facility.

I agree pretty much with what you’ve stated on this thread!
But I must ask, why are YOU trying to reason/contend with Lara after you called out her deliberate phoniness? No one ever beats the devil (metaphorically speaking) at his/her own game where all the rules and conventions are stacked in his/her favor.

treating a person or particular group of people differently, especially in a worse way from the way in which you treat other people, because of their skin colour, religion, sex, etc.

racial/sex/age discrimination

Lara

I’d like to hear the other side of the story. If the store absolutely refuses to hire qualified black people then yes that is discrimination.

If as you say, discrimination has taken place here, what kind of discrimination has taken place? I am intrigued to know how you will answer
considering that you have already stated that you didn think it was racist!

Ok, so if you are an employer and you are a self confessed ‘racist’ and your racism manifests itself by vetting all applicants and disregarding those from applicants who are or appear to be POC or refusing to employ POC if they slip through the net and manage to get an interview regardless of whether they are equally or even more qualified than say the other white candidates – is this not an example of ‘imposing on the rights’ of the said POC?

I think it’s called employment discrimination. I’m not exactly sure how one would go about proving it however.

What is employment discrimination? Come on Lara, you’re clutching at straws now.

see I know what you are doing you are trying to separate John the nice guy down the street who happens to be white, who is obviously not demonic, and whiteness as an ideology which you percieve to be evil.

the problem with that is whie alot of (not all) black people see your hypethetical neighbor “John” they will lump him in to your whiteness is demonic definition(especially kids) and other non enlightened blacks and call “John” himself demonic.

And lets face it it you destory whiteness you need to in turn destory blackness as well

“the problem with that is whie alot of (not all) black people see your hypethetical neighbor “John” they will lump him in to your whiteness is demonic”

A lot of black people (non enlightened????) are NOT going to see John, the nice white guy down the street, as demonic because I (or whomever) state that white supremacy aka “whiteness” is demonic. Let’s get this straight. If someone or something displays OBVIOUS demonic tendencies, then any astute and bold observer that isn’t hampered by perceived religiously/politically incorrect speech is going to call/say it as it is. Perhaps you need to explain precisely what you mean by non-enlightened black people so I’m sure we’re on the same wavelength. I’m not sure but I think I’m seeing some exaggerated FEAR on your part – which isn’t surprising given how overwhelmingly RACIST the racist/fear based atmosphere in America is. Are you as a white person afraid of a black backlash to the never-ending oppression?

“And lets face it it you destory whiteness you need to in turn destory blackness as well”

Whiteness CREATED the falsehood that you refer to as blackness. I have no problem or issue with BOTH of these false man-made BS constructs going away.

To be more serious, I had never heard of this phenomenon. Of course some women use tears as means of manipulation. I used to work in a greeting card company, and heard that the two female bosses of marketing and design (where I worked) pretty much fought in meetings by trying to out cry each other.

But using it in a racist manner is nasty, just nasty. So low. Stand on your own two feet, don’t beg for pity.

No offense, but sometimes I’m just so happy that I’m not american. Your society is seriously ffckd up. But I do find all this very fascinating and educating.

Ok wow, to the guy who said racism is an inherent genetic and psychological illness in whites, you disgust me. I’m not white, nor have any special love for them, but saying that someone is destined to be a certain way because of their genes is RACIST. You didn’t imply it, you plainly stated it. White racism as we know it today did not begin until the 19th century with race based science and eugenics. And despite whatever bitter craziness you hold in your head, whites are racist because THEY HAVE THE POWER TO BE. Theoretically, all events roughly the same, we’re it Africa that gave rise to the mighty colonial powers of the 15th-20th centuries, than white Europe would be plagued with post colonial civil wars, corruption and other lingering effects of racist invaders. And America would be a black nation built on the back of white slavery. The white culture is like a leader with too much power, lack of opposition to his control breeds arrogance, callousness, and the sociopathic behaviors that result from that. In short, it is power that gives rise to abuse of power. This in no way excuses racism and oppression, as no matter HOW it came about, IT STILL HAPPENED. Just like you(crammasters etc.) have more of a reason to see whites in this way than skinheads do to feel this way towards you, it doesn’t change the fact that you are engaging in genetic determinism, aka racism. I’m not defending white peoples actions at all, they are dispicable, and trying to justify them is the station of white racists in denial and “rented negroes” as you call them, but to subscribe to a belief that says a newborn child, white or otherwise, is inescapably going to be, or even more prone to being racist or anything else sinply because of his DNA makes me nauseous, and anyone with that belief about should be ashamed. Whites have done, and are still doing just as much to my race as they are to yours, don’t try to feed me some trite “you don’t understand” bullshit, I’ve heard every justification for this ludicrous theory about whites from my father, IT’S STILL RACISM.

Lara and those like her have no interest/use for the system of government we all know and love as democracy in light of the probability that POC might potentially benefit from such an arrangement. They and their ilk, for all their screaming and shouting against “the big bad federal government” are more interested in installing white autocracies which not only take into account the current racial hierarchy that is white supremacy but also re-introduces the most vile and brutal aspects of it’s machinations in order to keep “the niggers (anybody who isn’t white) in their place.”

What I find laughable about this POV (if it can be called that) is the pretentious underpinnings upon which it rests. Essentially, it consists of the idea that whites are the only people who’ve shown initiative/interest in earning their way through the world via their own merits. Whilst the rest of us, inherently dysfunctional coloureds, have not only shown a great disregard for doing so, but indeed have always harbored deep seated ambitions to be taken care of by them/somebody/ anybody other than ourselves.

Outside of it’s historical inaccuracy and present day white karfaffull regarding their own economic plight world wide, the astounding intellectual dishonesty it must take in order to ignore the quandary they invariably find themselves in when trying to argue a point of view which inherently requires that white people be capable of achieving all manner of success despite any and all objective odds stacked up against them (which at this juncture, in regards to race, seems to be a system geared, if not successfully, to upholding democratic ideals of civil rights) whilst simultaneously caterwauling about this that and the other parts of government not aiding and abetting them in bringing their titular merit based societies into being is mind boggling to say the least if not outright bloody hysterical.

In other words dear fascists, you can’t on one hand contemptuously sneer and spittle that people should be able to pull themselves up by their bootstraps irrespective of any and all circumstances they face and were it not for meddlesome government they could, and then in the same breath wail and gnash teeth about that very same government not intervening on your behalf in order for you to be able to manage to succeed. ?????????

To some degree American whites do feel an obligation to the descendants of slaves. When you guys go and join up with every other person who isn’t completely white and cry racism, there’s just too many of you to please. We can’t do it.

and to get back on subject, womens tears can work on most people whether she is black , white, asian, native, or mixed, or other.

I think more depends on how good looking she is on how much the tears will work.

Now that isn’t always true either, because if you saw a 75 year old lady crying you would have alot of sympathy, but how many women at that age are faking, almost none.

but let me give you a reverse example, which I know you guys never want to hear.

Lets say a black girl and a white girl don’t like each other, nothing to do with race, they just don’t like each others personality, and lets say it gets real personal and they both work for the same company and the black girl is smoking hot. like 10 times better looking than the white girl. the boss is white.The black girl goes in his office with fake tears giving a false tale of how hateful the white girl is and even fibs on some fake racial slurs that were said.

“I would go further to say that MOST white people may get offended and not here what you are saying,”

Most (if not all) white people ARE racist to some degree. Why would I care if the members of the oppressor race are offended by me, the one who’s being mistreated?

WHITENESS IS DEMONIC!!!! And I will keep saying this until whiteness is no longer demonic (highly doubtful!), or until whiteness ceases to exist!

My concern is not about whether “everyone” who reads this will understand. Some will get it, some won’t. There’s always someone that’ll confuse the issue or WON’T understand something or another. (Is it not like this in the bubble you exist in??)

I’m not here to serve white people’s interests, or to protect their privileges/feelings! If the truth hurts/offends them, then they should stop doing the actions that causes the embarrassment/pain/offense..
Do not confuse truth telling with hate.

ok matiri, most of the white people who visit here aren’t the type you are mad at. the people at the top don’t care about this sort of thing, they are too busy adding up thier money and don’t care about blogs such as this. so the white people who are here are people man.

do you know that most white people in the south that arent recent immigrants can claim up to 20% african anscestory.

I can’t becuase my peoples came through ellis island. but you never know.

I used to spend hours dialoguing (battling) with whites over racism and I was amazed at how they refused to see what I know they had to see

That was your first mistake. It’s a waste of oxygen and time. I learned this at a very young age. You are preaching to the converted. Like I said, I have never met a ‘white anti-racist(openly proclaimed to all and sundry, in real life). I have read many of their tomes and reams of stuff online. Funny, they are good at pontificating online but do-not seemingly put their money where their mouth is. If they are doing something it isn’t that apparent for whatever excuse they wish to offer as to why it isn’t more disseminated in society at large.

“Funny, they are good at pontificating online but do-not seemingly put their money where their mouth is.”

The more prominent white anti-racists “are good at pontificating online” and off – while RECEIVING a good amount of MONEY for books and appearances where they mouth pretty much the same things black people have been saying for hundreds of years – but for profit.

I find it peculiar/odd that racism not only BENEFITS whites at large, but also some of those anti-racists that are “seemingly” against it.

I think it’s obscene that these so-called anti-racist you refer to profit from books and lectures,whilst as you stated, the message has already been put out there by blacks for generations in some form or other. I bought a Tim wise book, on the advice of others here and noticed this. Then I thought, this has been iterated before! I saw a video of this guy Wise giving a speech to a black audience. It was as if they needed this white man to validate what they should have known, or perhaps already did. Anywho, that was the first and last foray into spending money on ‘white ant-racist’ literature’. I would rather spend my money elsewhere such as a handbag, I’d get more practical use out of the handbag than any rehashed advice they give. Besides, you need a receptive ‘white’ audience, which many of these anti-racist don’ havet. Preaching to the converted doesn’t count.

Hispanics seem “similiar” in culture to Africans to me, by that I mean people of hispanic decent or african descent who live in the US.

Not the same but similarities do exist. Though you could probably say the same thing about white people as compared to those two groups as well.

And it seems unlikely you’ll meet very many afro-latino’s, despite that being on some level actually the majority of their population if you go by the “1 Drop Rule”.

Beyond potential self-hate there or issues of self-identification, I would suspect they don’t want to let it be known they have part black in them because they don’t want to deal with having to go from the racism hispanics deal with to the racism black people deal with.

That and with their population boom going on; in a few decades they’ll be the majority and aligning with a minority they will probably want to opress pretty soon isn’t going to work for any long term plans. As much as any one cultural/racial group has plans in that sense of the word.

“Then I thought, this has been iterated before! I saw a video of this guy Wise giving a speech to a black audience. It was as if they needed this white man to validate what they should have known, or perhaps already did.”

A white US supreme court justice before our time ruled/stated something like, “Negroes have no rights which the white man is bound to respect.”

Apparently, this dismissive – and now de facto – attitude extends to our words as well. If it’s not in the white collective’s (or individual’s) interest, the utterances of black people are summarily ignored… or replayed/deciphered inaccurately on purpose so as to askew the meaning, This is a very convenient/useful method (of many) for maintaining white supremacy. Have we not seen this tactic deployed countless times on this blog, and even this thread?? This brings to mind Law Prof Derrick Bell’s second rule of “the rules of racial standing” which states:

“Not only are blacks’ complaints discounted, but black victims of racism are less effective witnesses than are whites, who are members of the oppressor class. This phenomenon reflects a widespread assumption that blacks, unlike whites, cannot be objective on racial issues and will favor their own no matter what. This deep seated belief fuels a continuing effort – despite all manner of Supreme Court decisions intended to curb the practice – to keep black people off juries in cases involving race. Black judges hearing racial cases are eyed suspiciously and sometimes asked to recuse themselves in favor of a white judge – without those making the request even being aware of the paradox in their motions.”

Justice Taney in “Dred Scott v Sanford” (1857) said that the Framers of the Constitution believed that blacks:

“had no rights which the white man was bound to respect; and that the negro might justly and lawfully be reduced to slavery for his benefit. He was bought and sold and treated as an ordinary article of merchandise and traffic, whenever profit could be made by it.”

“No, we’re not all English majors here. We simply don’t have the luxury/privilege that many whites enjoy, writing just any ole way and still be taken seriously.. like some here”

I like how the only people who try to write in Ebonics on this blog are white trolls. And, yes, despite all the government testing to the contrary, it is mostly the whites on this blog who have the worst spelling and, especially, the worst reading skills.

In general, I agree that most white people have racist tendencies, especially those who have no experience of dealing with people of other ethnic origins. We hopefully grow and learn. The people I hate are the ones who don’t want to learn.

I agree that it’s a waste of oxygen and time dialoguing with Lara (and others like her) — but sometimes I get sucked in 🙂

It is almost a religious quest, so many black folks desoerately seeking out and uplifting “good white people” and “white liberals” like former prez Bill Clintion who black folks love and used to call the “first black prez) — despite the FACT that there was a ton of punitive legislation enacted against blacks during the Clinton Administration)

The best scam in town is the (show) business of white anti-racism. It’s like speaking against crack cocaine while enjoying legal immunity as you puff on your crack pipe.

I believe the “system” tolerates and encourages and rewards white “anti-racists” like Tim Wise, for example, because they confuse the victimized black masses into thinking there are “good white people.”

white folks like Tim Wise gets book deals and makes public appearances on TV but real anti-racists like Neely Fuller, Jr. and Dr. Welsing can’t get a drop of attention from the white media.

There is no way a system set up to benefit one group is going to be opposed OR voluntarily destroyed by that same group.

Once we realize that, we will stop looking for “good white people” and good deeds by white people and instead, become better, wiser, more self-respecting, and more determined to defeat racism BLACK PEOPLE.

“That makes sense. Hispanics don’t have the history African Americans have. They don’t seem to have much in common either.”

Perhaps not in North America, but on a colonial level the most assuredly have. If anything, the degree to which internalized racism effects the Hispanic community could be said to rival that of the African American. Evidenced by the majority’s efforts to constantly distance themselves from their indigenous and/or black roots, one needn’t wonder the levels of savagery their ancestors endured under the imperial boot. Including Mexican Americans.

Maybe abagond can do a post on it sometime.

You know, a comparative study on the effects of posttraumatic stress and Stockholm syndrome on colonized peoples of the world. LOL, it’s probably gona have to be a series.

GoldFire,
Our recent hispanic immigrants are by far favored by employers over black men (and white men) in many lines of work. Since you guys basically all have the same the same experience being oppressed by evil whites then I’m guessing it won’t cause any hard feelings.

I would strongly suggest folks check out the Tim Wise interviews on C.O.W.S. on the Talkshoe shoe website — you’ll have to google it since I don’t have permission to post links on this blog.

He has admitted on previous occasions that he is a white racist and Wise once called the research of Dr. Frances Cress Welsing, a medically trained psychiatrist and geneticist — “pseudo-scientific BS (he didn’t abbreviate the word BS) aka “negro science.”

I believe Mr. Wise is a phony and is pimping racism and black people to make a very good living — and have based my opinion on the evidence and the interviews I have listened to

scratch a white anti-racist and you will find a white person practicing a very refined form of racism/white supremacy

@BrothaWolf,
“Yes you (white people) can. You just don’t want to out of fear of losing your comfort zones.”

And what are you going to do in return for us? What reason is there for white people to keep giving blacks so much? It’s obvious you can’t stand us.

Lara, are you serious?!?!? Good grief! You’ve just proven where your level of morality is!

In the first place blacks have done EVERYTHING for whites since day-one not by choice, but by force. Yet, you still want more from us! White people have giving blacks only a half, of a tenth, of a quarter of less than a very microscopic little to even begin to make up for their past sins, and it was only because we spoke out, marched, and protested. I can’t speak for every black person, but I will ask you this, even if that last statement is true, what damn good reason is there to stand you white folks?

“Our recent hispanic immigrants are by far favored by employers over black men (and white men) in many lines of work.”

Keywords being “favored by employers” I gather? See also NAFTA.

“Since you guys basically all have the same the same experience being oppressed by evil whites then I’m guessing it won’t cause any hard feelings.”

Lara, are you seriously trying to pretend to care about black people? Lol.
Get back to the African American community, when your ilk can manage not to retreat to the tried and true “well if you don’t like it here go back to Africa” mantra whenever you feel your entitled position at the top of the food chain is being threatened by your fellow citizens,; a group of Americans that have been here for 500 years (give or take) longer than most of you no less. Shhh..

of course white females get more empathy and sympathy from the white media and white people collectively. That’s obvious from the coverage of white female victims VS black female victims. The proof:

ask the average person to name three white female crime victims who have become household names:

“That’s easy — Natalie Holloway, Jon Benet Ramsey, Lacey Peterson”

Now, ask them to name ONE black female crime victim

“…….SILENCE…”

Black females are the most victimized females in American history, from 400 years of being the victims of ruthless white rapists and sadistic white female slave-owners to present day black females who are the most likely group in America to be raped but the LEAST likely to be believed or have their crimes investigated or the offenders prosecuted.

Of course, black female’s tears do not have the same effect as white female’s tears.

Dave, if you are a white man, you already knew the answer to your question…

I think so called “anti-racist” business in America is just like all the other “I’m a good person” things mainly whites have in USA. It is there to make them feel good about themselves and to make some money for themselves. This reminds me of the Band Aid and Live Aid back in the 80’s.

All those pop stars singing for free! Get it? They did not take any money from those cheesy recordings, wow! They gave their effort for free! They did their best at the studio and later on shows. Oh how they toiled and worked! And their combine income that year alone could have saved the hungry millions many times over, not to mention that they could have built schools, payd for the salaries of thousands of doctors and teatchers for years to come etc.

Nice that they sang and brought the hunger to our attention, but they could have just used their own frigging money right at once on the job. But that would have meant that they should have been serious about it.

There have been very few white guys who have been serious about their anti-racist stance. Very few celebrities have been. Marlon Brando was one back in the days. Usually so called anti-racists are in it just because they want the blacks/others tell them how great they are and how much they are liked. They want to have a moral high ground among the whites: See, I am anti-racist and loved by those opressed ones!

And it is very revealing that they lecture to the blacks how the blacks are opressed and how racism effects on them. Like, for real, man. 😀

“President Barack Obama says he backs immigration reform, announcing last month an initiative to ease deportation policies, but he has sent home more than 1 million illegal immigrants in 2 1/2 years — on pace to deport more in one term than George W. Bush did in two.”

@ AJ — who said: “Ok wow, to the guy who said racism is an inherent genetic and psychological illness in whites, you disgust me. I’m not white, nor have any special love for them, but saying that someone is destined to be a certain way because of their genes is RACIST. You didn’t imply it, you plainly stated it.”

—

#1 — something about the way you said “I’m not white…” makes me suspect you might be a white person (but that’s just my intuition talking, i could be wrong)

#2 — I stated what I believe is true. Let me clarify my statement

when it comes to racism and non-white people — whites appear to have an INHERENT, GENETIC tendency to lie, mistreat, rape and murder ANY and EVERYONE who is not white. The history of white people over the last 500+ years bears that out.

I agree with Dr. Frances Cress Welsing who said:

“…because of their “numerical inadequacy” and “color inferiority,” white people may have defensively developed “an uncontrollable sense of hostility and aggression” towards people of color, which has led to “confrontations” between the races throughout history. Repressing their own feelings of inadequacy, whites “set about evolving a social, political, and economic structure to give blacks and other ‘non-whites’ the appearance of being inferior.”

#3 — from what I have seen, when it comes to non-white people, it is one lie after another, it’s lying about “discovering America,” lying about Native Americans being savages while whites were murdering, raping, stealing and committing genocide against Native Americans. The same is true about non-white people from Africans (the Transatlantic slave trade, American slavery, white imperialism, white colonialism, Elvis Presley imitating black people, to Creole (black slave) cooking transformed into (white) Cajun cooking, to American music pretending it didn’t come from black R&B, jazz and the blues, to calling collagen enhanced white female lips the “Paris lip” instead of admitting they want lips, breasts, and buttocks like our black women have,

to today, where Europeans are attacking, murdering and stealing from Africa, to killing the leader of Libya and pretending his own people did it,

to Australia’s aboriginals who were raped, murdered, and robbed of their country and their children (google the “Stolen Generation)

from the atom bomb that was dropped on Japan, the napalming of Vietnam, Katrina in the US where black people stranded on roofs for 4 days then robbed of their right to reclaim their land to the police murders of countless unarmed black men, women AND CHILDREN,

to people like Lara and the countless white trolls who refuse to admit what they know is true: that white people individually AND collectively, mistreat and benefit from mistreating people who are not white. White people KNOW this is true and white people KNOW what other white people say and do when there are no black people in the room. They KNOW their relatives, friends, coworkers and bed partners talk negatively about black people.

They KNOW that the black people on their jobs are treated unfairly and don’t get the kind of credit or promotions that white people get. They know this because it’s the average, ordinary white person who decides whether a black person gets that job, that loan, that promotion, that traffic ticket (or a pass), or a guilty verdict in the courtroom as a defendant or whether a white cop gets an innocent verdict after shooting an unarmed black man 41 times.

It’s the average, ordinary white person that keeps the hell going for millions of non-white people on the planet because without that support the system of white supremacy would self-destruct.

#3 — Again, and again and again (to the point of exhaustion), black people cannot be racist, and cannot practice racism because racism is NOT expressing an opinion as a powerless (black) person, racism is action, words , thoughts and deeds based on having institutions and SYSTEMS in place that will back up those thoughts, words, and deeds.

you can all me a lot of things, but as a black person, the one thing i will never answer to is “racist”

I make no apologies for telling the truth about the documented actions of white people on this planet — and I could care less who is offended by that — no disrespect intended.

“of course white females get more empathy and sympathy from the white media and white people collectively.”

Yes they do, and they also receive the lion’s share (they are the primary beneficiaries) of Affirmative Action benefits in the U.S., a fact conveniently lost on the white mass mind, even to the extent that white people collectively (and now routinely) vote against it.

If white women benefit (THE MOST), then by default won’t their WHITE husbands, sons, fathers, brothers, boyfriends .. derive some trickle down perks and benefits too? White folks – in their demonic delusions – are willing to hurt themselves as long as their perception is that they are hurting “others” even more.

I agree and the sad, pitiful part is white females pretending they haven’t benefited from affirmative action by claiming AA is “reverse racism”

this is the kind of DISHONESTY and (inborn lying tendencies) that I spoke of earlier. When it comes to racism against non-white people, they just don’t seem to be able to help themselves or stop themselves from lying about it.

I think its a psychological/spiritual malady that enters into them after they’re born. Even white so-called “Christians” put whiteness (white supremacy, the greatest religion in the world) ahead of “righteousness” since even they cannot resist the pull of racism, so strong are its effects/enchantments/lures.

I agree. I don’t believe people are born with a blank slate, I think our origins and “racial memories” (the memories/actions) of our ancestors are imprinted on our DNA.

Also, the origins of Europeans and their fixation on “apes” (Planet of the Apes, calling African people “gorillas,” and common phrases among the white collective like, “I’ll be a monkey’s uncle” or “he went ape” or “you’re a Neanderthal”) points to some repressed admission/memory of their very different origins than the African man and woman.

Even their own white media admit there is a difference in the origins of black and white people

National Geographic ran a documentary special about three years ago where they theorized that the “…European is a hybrid between Neanderthal and man….”

who is “man?”

the African man

“they” know who “we” (blacks) — which is why Europeans are dead on their jobs 24-7, 365 days a year — keeping their feet on our black necks

“Also, the origins of Europeans and their fixation on “apes” (Planet of the Apes, calling African people “gorillas,” and common phrases among the white collective like, “I’ll be a monkey’s uncle” or “he went ape” or “you’re a Neanderthal”) points to some repressed admission/memory of their very different origins than the African man and woman.”

You nailed it, Crammaster! But you forgot to include King-Kong and Tarzan … the APE-man! LOL

@matari: I was waiting who comes out with Tarzan, a white man who rules the jungle by virtue of being born and bred a noble man, lord Greystoke, despite being raised by a buch of apes without any human contact :D.

King Kong is also pretty good one but Tarzan is better. Just think about the first Tarzan movie featurin Johnny Weissmueller in the lead. One guy once said that is the presentation of the nightmare of the whites: dark african jungle, black dwarfs, giant man eating gorillas, and on top of it: the only white hope is a tree jumping white guy who is intellectually on the level of monkeys.

Agree with your earlier comments about white anti-racists, and frankly, I’m sickened by the public display (circus) over how much they love those poor, pitiful starving and displaced Africans (courtesy of white imperialism, thank you)

and you’re right when you say “why not just give them money if you’re so committed — instead of raising your public profile by begging POOR and working folk to fund your “charitable” efforts?

It reeks of self-promotion and phoniness, especially when the black people right under their noses can’t get the time of day from these white stars

what really wipes me is when famous folks want something named after them, like the XYZ scholarship fund yet claim they giving ‘from the heart’

bet money if they had to give whatever they gave anonymously, meaning no media coverage, no picture on the NY Times society pages, no charitable balls or parties or champagne or finger sandwiches or buildings or scholarships or awards named after them, most of the wealthy wouldn’t dole out pocket change.

“It is almost a religious quest, so many black folks desperately seeking out and uplifting “good white people” and “white liberals” like former prez Bill Clintion who black folks love and used to call the “first black prez) — despite the FACT that there was a ton of punitive legislation enacted against blacks during the Clinton Administration)

The best scam in town is the (show) business of white anti-racism. It’s like speaking against crack cocaine while enjoying legal immunity as you puff on your crack pipe.

I believe the “system” tolerates and encourages and rewards white “anti-racists” like Tim Wise, for example, because they confuse the victimized black masses into thinking there are “good white people.”
________________________________________

Slick Willie should have been impeached. The mainstream media investigative journalists in the US was complicit in covering up his escapades, the alternative internet media, not so much.The fact that he wasn’t thrown out for his corruption was my personal wake up call that the US govt was compromised, fully corrupt and beyond recovery/redemption. As brother Malcolm has stated, we’ve been “had, hoodwinked and bamboozled!”

You’re dealing with deeply ingrained insecurities that need to be dealt with directly as oppose to peripherally, tangentially and/or indirectly. Everything subjective is influenced by objective data and assimilated into the psyche in order for us to make sense of the world, so it’s no wonder people of color view themselves in the light they’ve been inculcated to see themselves in. Add to that the very human search for significance and Viola!!! you’ve got a winning formula for internalized racism displayed in one form or another in POC worldwide, specifically if not especially, within the AA community. In other words, there’s been a void. A rather a tangible void having to do with the mechanics of self worth that up till now has been the purview of those who retain a connection to their supposed (because who but a tribesman in the furthest regions of the globe can make that claim) indigenous roots, i.e. what they consider their civilization. My contention is that in lieu of the traditions/songs/clothing languages that make up these cultures, the meticulous hunting, gathering and recording of a library of knowledge/information both historical and present day regarding black peoples accomplishments at large within Africa and in the western hemisphere, placed in one location (with copies of-course) and the dissemination there of throughout the black diaspora via a home-schooling apparatus as a potential answer in combating the insidious effects of internalized racism. The rest is simply a matter of a hardcore push in the maths and sciences which can also be addressed via the same apparatus. To my mind the real issue is who’s at fault for allowing that vacuum to linger/ remain un-addressed for so long or without redress in a systematic and unrelenting way, rather than who’s at fault for filling that vacuum via their own injudicious/harsh self interested lens. In essence, where’s black academia and black leadership?

True enough, and begrudgingly to Lara’s point, the African American community as the forefathers of civil rights in the western world have a reason to be angry when they keep seeing other marginalized POC coming to this country, taking advantage of the opportunities this nations has to offer, distancing themselves from the AA community at best and reviling them in accordance to the racial meme at worst. All the while coveting/fighting/hiding from the issues in order to firmly plant themselves under the “model minority” umbrella. If the squeaky wheel gets the grease, indeed African Americans groaned, moaned and gargled through blood filled mouths and sweat laden brows under centuries of whips, chains, billy-clubs, nooses, vicious dogs, not to mention both psychological and economic warfare in order that through their struggles others might have the luxury to enjoy these hard won freedoms. Ironically, only to be faced with the reality, from these very same beneficiaries, an unwillingness to ingratiate themselves in the same manner to their community as to those from whom these freedoms had to be wrestled.

However, it seems to me, unlike these beneficiaries, African Americans albeit only 50 years from civil rights, have spent more time memorializing and rehashing these horrific past events, their discontent with the paternal quality of white supremacy, and the malediction that is white racism, rather than, or along with an unremitting focus on the education of the next generation of black children. Further, some, in an aggressive attempt to reestablish a sense of self worth in the face of an ugly history of forced deference, in combination with high degrees of internalized racism and anger over economic disenfranchisement have sadly turned to impolitic and self destructive behaviors in order to assert their personal worth; to deadly social ramifications within and without their own group. Black people must address these realities for the sake of our own restoration.

“It’s time for us to accept hard, cold reality that black people will have to do the changing, that we have to change how we think, act, and speak when it comes to white people — and that means what ever it means.”

Just incase you’re wondering what in God’s name I’m responding to in my earlier post to you. 🙂

@matari: Well, lets study the biblical figure of satan here for a while. The name comes from the hebrew word stn, yes, with a small letters. Now, what that means? It means the opponent of gods will. Why this “stn” opposed god? Well, according the bible, stn was not willing to wipe out the whole humanity in the great flood. He actually tried to defend humans and wanted to save them from destruction. God had other ideas and wiped out most of the humanbeings and according to the bible, that was nice deed.

It was only much later that this stn became the devil guy we all know. There is no knowing was the original stn even the same dude who was Lucifer, who by the way was the brightest of the angles, bringer of the Light, and was cast down from heavens by the same angry god who wanted the humans suffer for real in order to make them love Him.

“Well, according the bible, stn was not willing to wipe out the whole humanity in the great flood. He actually tried to defend humans and wanted to save them from destruction. God had other ideas and wiped out most of the humanbeings and according to the bible, that was nice deed.”

I don’t recall reading that in the scriptures. Noah, his wife, his three sons and their wives and a male and female of each animal species were directed by God onto the Ark Noah built according to God’s instructions – is what I recall reading.

My understanding of Satan is that he’s God’s avowed enemy, hates humankind and would like to see us all perish.

Do you have a biblical reference, chapter(s) and verse(s) for your biblical account?

“There is no knowing was the original stn even the same dude who was Lucifer, who by the way was the brightest of the angles, bringer of the Light, and was cast down from heavens by the same angry god who wanted the humans suffer for real in order to make them love Him.”

I think amongst Lucifer’s first sins was that he looked upon his BEAUTIFUL self as being on PAR with God. He also led a rebellion in Heaven and convinced a portion of the angelic hosts (now known as demons) to side with him against God. They were kicked out of Heaven for their failed insurrection against God.

@matari: Originally there was no devil or satan, it was malak yahweh, the angry god, the warrior god who brought the devastation and destruction on earth and there were none like him (Isaiah 45:7, Moses 31:1, 31:18-19, Jos 7:24-25, 1 Sam 5: 9-10, Gensis 6: 5-6, Gen19, Genesis 32: 23-32, Exodus 4: 24-26 etc.). It was because the need to portray god in a more pleasant light, they (israelites) adapted some dualistic consepts from neighbouring peoples.

In Lv 16: 8-10 strange god Azazel appears suddenly. In the first book of Samuel king Saul is terrfied before a battle spirit of yahweh leaves him and “evil spirit from yahweh” takes its place. In 2 Sam 24.16 angry god sends one of his angels destroy the harvest of the people, with whom he was angry, so that 70 000 died. Gods own people, that is.

Sometime between 3rd and 2nd century BC heavenly host starts to appear in scriptures. Bene ha-elohim, gods own court starts appear, pretty much like in the mythology of the greeks with Zeus on the throne and others hanging around. But even at this stage there still was no satan, but gods messengers who might destory humans if god wanted so.

It is in the book of Job where satan makes his grand entrance. In King James bible the word stn, satan, is translated “enemy” when god raises an enemy to Solomon (1 kings 11:14). In book fo Job satan is one of the angels who starts to argue with god, claiming that the people are good only because they have received a reward. Satan says to yahweh that Job is just a man, that without reward he would not be so dedicated to yahweh. So yahweh proofs Jobs loyalty by inflicting all kinds of torments but Job stays loyal. Satan then asks can he test this guy and yahweh says go ahead.

So there we have the satan who teases humans and tests their loyalty to the boss. But he is presented as yahwehs guy, not his enemy at this point.In Book of Zecheria satan is the prosecutor, to whom another angel of yahweh gets mad, because he goes too far. In this it is that angel who roamed the earth checking out people, not the satan who did just that in the Book of Job.

In new testament satan comes the enemy of god.

Originally the religion in which the christianity was based on, was totally absolutely monotheistic. There were no others. Just one god. But surrounding cultures opened a chance to portray that god in more positive light, IF there was somebody else doing the bad deeds. But even then that guy was just doing gods bidding and jobs he was told to do by the almighty god. He was the gods assassin, in a way a hit man. Trough the hellenistic influences, oriental influences, the concept started to widen untill there were all kinds of gods messengers, angels and spirits, among which there was this dude called stn.

Trough the developement of the religion, hellenistic influences changed the canon, and finally the romans transformed the thing into what we know now. St.Augustine was the main guy in the prosess, it was him who got the idea of satan as the Big Bad Guy with the helpers called demons, who flew around kidnapping people. Demon came ofcourse from the greek word daemon, which was hellenistic version of soul which did not suit for these “fathers” of christianity.

It was also Augustine who invented the idea that angels in general can fly around in spilt seconds etc. This was result of dumbing the religion from ots roots and origins. The christianity of Augustine became sort of roman version with its showmanship and flash and bling bling from a hard edged religion of the desert nomands, the isralites. They were millions of miles apart.

Constant re writing of the scriptures transformed the whole story into hodgepodge of religious influences which had nothing to do with the origins. Finally in Nicea they just decided that these stories are in and rest are to be wiped out. Lucky for us they were not, so we have some idea what the christianity was originally about. Same goes with judaism, religion whose one sect the original christianity was.

Hellenistic jew Paul invented his own version and marketed it trough the hellenistic world and once Jerusalem was destroyed, along with the original church lead by the brother of Jesus himself, James the Just, his version took hold in romanized world. But that had nothing to do with the one Jesus, or Yeshua, was talking about. It was Pauls own invention, his religion, which hijacked Yeshua and gave him a status as a dying and resurrecting god man, just like all the rest from Mithra to Attis. Originally Yeshua had been a rabbi, preacher, inventor and renovator of judaism, a profet and a messiah, a jewish man who would lead the jewish people to freedom. Not a demi god who flyes in the skies and does all kinds of stunts.

Satans story goes the same way. Satan we know today did not excist originally. It was and it is an convinient invention.

Oh yes, I have experienced this in full effect…..FAKE crocodile tears and lies heaped on more lies with people conspiring together.

If you don’t get your way by jumping up and down and screaming like Hitler, then make up some lies and say that the black woman threatened you or screamed at you….This has only ever happened to me once in my life in the workplace, but that situation is one that I will NEVER forget…..EVER.

Besides, the types of white women who do this type of thing with the fake crocodile tears and devious conniving, telling lies and two faced behaviours are usually the ones who are FAT with low self esteem and jealous of the black women in question……The white women who have high self-esteem don’t feel threatened by black women or black men because they are secure within self and confident of their own abilities and therefore see others of a different race as equal and therefore not a threat.

Seeing as you were the police officer who had to investigate this very case where my ex-Manager told a heap of lies and nobody bothered to involve me and ask me any questions involving the investigation….The scenario you describe is close to what happened to me and my boss at London South Bank University, except that the woman is a liar, a tyrant, a bully and the reincarnation of Adolf Hitler (female version).

Of course, you know all about the case since you were there in person and witnessed the whole thing.

You have stated on this very blog that you are racist, so how would a person like you be impartial to the situation…..Well, you wouldn’t.

The racial slurs in question were people in the office who happen to be white making jokes about black people, something that would not be tolerated if it was the other way around.

How about the part where they tried to say that I was a drug user and you and your police friends tried to plant drugs at my house, where it now appears that you are now living, you conned your way in there with the estate agents under false pretences.

You really are a snake.

I don’t know how MI5, MI6 or the Metropolitan police force in general, cope with people like you on their force…..You are a criminal and you and I both know that to be factual.

This is SO racist, when will it end – I am a ‘white’ woman and love all people that treat me well no matter what. Perhaps when YOU (not black people because I know so many who see us all as one, but everyone here who is segregating themselves and SAYING they are different to ‘white’ people) stop seeing skin colour everyone else will too. Until YOU stop seeing white people as DIFFERENT though how can this ever end!?! When YOU say I am WHITE is the only time I notice you are BLACK. When you accept we are all just one people on a tiny planet and stop pointing out our differences then that is exactly how we’ll be! And women who use tears as a weapon are disgusting – no matter what colour they are!! Blessed be EVERYONE, no matter your skin/shape/county/religion!

@ Bouncy
“When YOU say I am WHITE is the only time I notice you are BLACK.”

I think it’s safe to assume you are being disingenuous.
Do you notice someones height/weight only when they mention your body type? 😀
Either consciously or subconsciously you are aware of a person’s race.

I’ve never seen the scene described above played out in front of me, though I don’t doubt in the least it’s truthfulness.

As a white woman who doesn’t cry (unless someone I love dies, or naturally at the end of romantic comedies while drunk), I’ve often experienced women crying in various settings: the workplace, church, politics, etc. to acheive their end goal or to deflect from a challenge or argument. It was so bad in university my co-chair and I tried to instill a “no crying” rule into an end of year conference meeting.

Of course there is never any ownership of how manipulative this behaviour is. It’s just genuine emotions, and you know us women can’t manage our emotions, we just have to express them whether it’s appropriate or not. (blech)

I had always thought of this as something many women do (not all, just many) – but now that I think back on it I can only recall other white women crying in these settings. So perhaps this is something only white women do.

That is to say that while there is a lot of truth to your narrative above, what is not true is that it is entirely about race. Had you challenged that same woman about something that has nothing to do with race, or disagreed with them in a board meeting they would have been just as likely to cry to achieve their goal. In your scenario their goal is to not deal with a conversation about race, or to avoid being uncomfortable or challenged. And it works.

I have seen this happen too. And I understand the frustration about this counter-productive response. However, I don’t think it’s a manipulative trick that white women use. I think it’s rooted in an ignorance about race and racism. Frankly, most white women (and men) spend there lives not thinking too much about race (a benefit of white privilege). But on the other hand white people generally don’t want to be racist… So when they do, or say, something offensive (out of ignorance) they get confused, scared and upset. The tears are genuine. Whether the white person is willing to continue to engage after the tears dry-up is the test of whether he or she is committed to anti-racism.

I am a Black woman familiar with the WWT phenomenon since I grew up in a mostly-white area of the Midwest. I didn’t have the frame of reference to understand how WWT made my life difficult until I grew older. I noticed in high school, in college, and now on-the-job. WWT, on-the-job, remains a constant headache. Bad behavior, bad language, bad performance on projects by White women gets an automatic pass when the tears arrive. I’ve seen straight-out aggression, passive-aggression, manipulation, harassment, you name it. Right now, WWT in the workplace comes from my boss, the owner of the business. She uses WWT to persuade me to work late, work weekends, cover for the mistakes she makes, and make sacrifices for her need to self-medicate her strange personality. Even her pet dog prefers me and won’t come to her when she calls it. I suspect that she may be mentally-ill and so I try not to engage her manipulative game-playing. I’m sending out applications and I hope I find a position elsewhere soon.

I live in a small Southern town and see this crap all the time. I could care less for WWT but you have to realize that women of other races excluding Black woman are just as conniving and use their tears, social status etc to get their way.

We have the right to call it like we see it, and there is much truth to the distasteful and manipulative display called “white women’s tears.” Turn on the TV and within 24 hours, you will have seen white women crying on talk shows, court shows, TV shows, and movies, even Valerie Bertinelli crying on a Jennie Craig commercial about losing weight.

The white female has been used as a tool to promote empathy and sympathy for white people collectively yet the irony is no one has it harder than black and non-white females who pain and suffering is largely ignored. You don’t see missing, raped, or murdered black or brown and red or yellow females being profiled on the nightly news. You don’t see laws named in honor of a black or non-white child. You don’t see helicopters and entire police departments searching for a missing black or non-white female or child.

Yes, white women collectively are quick to pull out the old onion sack and cry crocodile tears whenever they are in a situation they want to get out of it. Just yesterday I saw a Judge Judy show where Judge Judy (a white female) actually warned a white female not to put on those “white eyes” with her. In other words, don’t pull that ‘poor little white female me’ trick on her.

White people know the tricks that other white people pull on non-white people — and on other white people. It is black and non-white people, especially black and non-white males who are more likely to fall for these tricks because the movies and media have programmed them by constantly portraying Denzel and Morgan and other black males ‘saving’ or ‘assisting’ white females.

The point is not if other races are “allowed to cry”, it’s that their tears don’t matter to white society. If white females were burying their children at the same rate as black women are, the entire broadcast system’s computers would be drowned in WW’s tears — and somebody (white) would be doing something about it.

That’s why BW aren’t as prone to “CRY” at the drop of a safety pin. Because we know NO ONE CARES — especially white people.

I did not “lump” you into any category

FYI — non-whites do not have the POWER to classify ourselves. White people created the ‘black, brown, red, and yellow” people aka people of color, so your beef is with the wrong person (me). so let’s not waste time debating non-points.

If white people say you are “brown”, you are brown and as long as this white supremacy system dominates non-white people (including YOU), you will be whatever white people in power say you are.

If white people say you are “brown”, you are brown and as long as this white supremacy system dominates non-white people (including YOU), you will be whatever white people in power say you are.

I have to agree here. If you can bring looks, profound academic ability or some other ‘assett’ or ‘talent/ability’ to the race then there are many WP who will happily become colourblind and embrace you into the fold.

If you are of indeterminate race and are not fortunate enough to be ‘gifted’ then generally, you can be on the receiving end of all kinds of generalisations about who you are and how you ‘should’ be perceived….

No, my skin color is definitely brown. I take pride in this, especially during tanning season, and just because white people say it too I don’t see why I have to give it up. I have no problem being offended if people assume I’m Latina–which so far has only occurred in the form of people coming up to me and speaking rapid Spanish.

I have honestly never seen a white woman cry, but if I do I’ll let her know the only reason I’m asking her what’s wrong is because I pander to her attention whoring.

I’m incredibly confused as to why it’s appropriate to just say all white women cry for stupid, attention-getting reasons but not to stereotype any other “color”.

I hear what you’re saying but in my humble opinion, regardless of talent or ‘assets’ at best a non-white person is TOLERATED until they forget who and what they are. There are so many examples, it would take a year to list but here’s a few:

OJ Simpson, the “Juice,” one of the most talented football players in history was embraced by “colorblind” white fans as he ran laughing through the nation’s airports UNTIL

he used those assets to get the kind of legal representation normally reserved for white people and beat a rap for the murder of TWO white people.

Harvard Professor Henry Gates was embraced by colorblind whites until he dared object to being arrested and handcuffed in his own home by an ordinary white male civil servant cop. To keep his Harvard job and continue to be “tolerated” by white people, Gates had to sit down and have a beer with that white cop, who, to my knowledge never apologized for his racist behavior.

When President Obama called that white cop “stupid” for arresting Professor Gates, even being president didn’t shield Obama from a barrage of condemnation and Obama had to basically apologize by inviting that civil servant white cop to the White House for a beer.

Now, try to imagine President Bush calling a cop stupid and being forced to apologize…now we know that would never happen. H, Cheney shot a man in a hunting accident that the man he shot apologized to Cheney!

(( shaking head and chuckling ))

This is my point, that there is NOTHING a non-white person can do to be equal to a white person in the eyes of white people collectively, yet we still believe that more education, better table manners, more money, more degrees, more white-identification, more white spouses, and more “assets” will erase our color in a white supremacy system. The evidence that this is true is UNDENIABLE.

I encourage — no, implore — non-white people to take the blinders off. There is NOTHING new about an educated black or brown or red or yellow person. It is our vanity and wishful thinking that makes the educated or asset-heavy non-white think otherwise.

This is my point, that there is NOTHING a non-white person can do to be equal to a white person in the eyes of white people collectively, yet we still believe that more education, better table manners, more money, more degrees, more white-identification, more white spouses, and more “assets” will erase our color in a white supremacy system. The evidence that this is NOT true is UNDENIABLE.

I encourage — no, implore — non-white people to take the blinders off. There is NOTHING new about an educated black or brown or red or yellow person. It is our vanity, CONFUSION, and wishful thinking that makes the educated or asset-heavy non-white think otherwise.

How willing are you to rely on the gratitude and support of a “white” (which I’m assuming here means Western European descent more than anything else)? I like being independent. Even if I could get the same attention a crying white lady gets–which could be perfectly possible–I’m not going that route.

Just to be clear, when i say “white” I mean those people who are classified as “white” by the most powerful white supremacists on the planet. There are many black people who are as light-skinned as a white person but who are still classified as a black person.

Skin color is only part of what makes a person “white.” Whiteness is not an ethnicity, it’s a political identity that exists only within a white supremacy system.

WIthout whiteness there would be no white supremacy. Without white supremacy, there would be no such thing as “white people.”

That being said, I would love to live in a world where I was not dependent on white people. Unfortunately, since white people control everything that non-whites need in the United States, from food, housing, money, jobs, medical care, education, and entertainment, I have no choice but to rely on them.

Again, I want to encourage non-white people to NOT be real about our situation and our manufactured dependency and inferiority. We can’t fix a problem by pretending that problem does not exist.

No, I would not want to go through life crying to get my way, but it would be nice to know that I could get some attention and assistance in times of need. Absolutely.

What about the “white” people who are socioeconomically disadvantaged, living in the slums and so on? Likewise, what about the “non-white” people who live in the richest areas and give tons of money to conservative campaigns? Yes, it’s not as common–at least in America–for a “non-white” to be ultra rich. But it happens.

Both these groups exist. Deciding to draw your battle lines based on color, while traditional, conveniently ignores a whole host of other inequalities. Including the fact that the ‘bystander effect’ was first characterized due to the suffering of a white woman. Or maybe Kitty Genovese isn’t white enough for the supremacists? They’re not the majority–I don’t use their definition.

RE poor whites, in every war, there are casualties. The trick is to make white supremacy look more like class warfare rather than racism warfare.

There are three reasons:

1. If there were no poor whites or so-called ‘rich black or non-whites”, it would be too obvious to non-whites that they were being screwed. The reality is skin color alwayw outranks class. Skin color determines CASTE, meaning you are BORN into your true status and that can never change, regardless of how much education and money your acquire.

Just ask Oprah Winfrey, Michael Jackson, OJ Simpson, President Obama, Harvard Professor Gates, etc. all of who have more “money” than a paper god, but are (and were) still treated like n**gers in a white supremacy system.

2. There is nothing more dangerous than a large number of disenfranchised and frustrated people who have nothing to lose. They have to make it appear that there is such a thing as “black/non-white progress” to keep non-whites — the MAJORITY on the planet — in line, hopeful, cooperative, and submissive to white supremacy aka

“If I do all my homework, dress nice, drive a luxury car, live in the right (white) neighborhood, and eat all my spinach, maybe, I can get the same respect whites get.”

Strangely but predictably enough, when blacks/non-whites see poor whites or white people begging on street corners, non-whites feel better about being mistreated. “Hey, white people are suffering, too!”

3. Capitalism requires slavery, including white slavery. It is unrealistic to think that all white people will be equally privileged just because it’s a white supremacy system. That’s not realistic. The ultimate goal is complete control of the majority of people on the planet with the people classified as white dominating those who are not. That is it in a nutshell — in my opinion.

So, I would strongly advise non-white people NOT to spend precious time defending white women or white people and spend more time worrying about ourselves and how we will survive this system.

I would like to briefly add that skin color is the most common way of identifying whites from non-whites but caste is not limited to skin color alone. For example a light-skinned black or brown person might look like they could pass for white but what are they seen as by those in power?

We are black, brown, red, and yellow people aka ‘people of color’ and this is based on how the most powerful white people classify us. it is this classification that determines our CASTE.

Oh hell no. I refuse to be a “person of color”. I refuse to be anything I’m not. I have brown skin and my parents are from elsewhere. What I am is not inclined to blame people who didn’t deserve it by insulting me, or to lie down and take it from anybody. Any kind of blanket generalization is a stereotype, and I’m not supporting it from either side.

Every group wants to be in control. The Western Hemisphere was more successful there, and yeah that’s sucked for a lot of cultures. Letting any of this define today–when China is definitely the economic power–is futile.

I encourage — no, implore — non-white people to take the blinders off. There is NOTHING new about an educated black or brown or red or yellow person. It is our vanity, CONFUSION, and wishful thinking that makes the educated or asset-heavy non-white think otherwise.

You give some really good examples here. I appreciate what you say totally. It seems that there can and often will be a heavy price to pay when you assimilate (or are seen as being able to). Somewhere someone cannot, will not let you forget what you ‘really’ are and where you came from.

Good luck to those who have managed to find the balance and are not encumbered by the issues mentioned here.

Here’s my experience with white women’s tears, okay, maybe white young women’s tears. When I was a 15 years old, I went to the girl’s washroom to apply lipstick in front of a mirror. A white girl, whom I didn’t know very well, but I had seen her around school, stands next to me to fix her hair. She watches me apply my lipstick and proceeds to turn around to face me and says, “You have n-word lips for an Asian.” I was so mad she made a racial slur that I spit in her face. She was shocked, of course. And so was I. I had never done anything like that before nor had I been in any trouble.

Well, this white girl goes the office and tells the principal I spat in her face for making a comment about her lips. I was in one of my classes, and I get hauled out to the principal’s office with the white girl there. She had been crying. The principal asked me if I spit in the girl’s face. Well, the white girl started crying again and whining, “I can’t believe she spit in my face.” The principal was handing her tissues and even gave her a quick pat on the shoulder to get her to calm down. I replied, “Yes, I did…AFTER she called my lips the n-word!”

Then the white girl cried even louder. The principal grimaces and proceeds to tell me that I have detention for one whole week for spitting while the white girl receives only three days. I objected, “That’s unfair! Why is she only getting three? I was minding my business when she made that comment! She should be getting the whole week, not me!” The principal said, “That’s enough, young lady. One whole week of detention. That’s it. No questions. Got it?” I was angry at what just happened. Then I shot the side eye to the white girl and left.

If I knew I would be getting a week for spitting, I would’ve popped her in the mouth. Anyway, the girl and I had detention in the same classroom, and I dropped a note on her desk. I wrote if she called me any racial slur, I would be more than happy to fight her after school. She kept her distance from me following my note.

….I wrote if she called me any racial slur, I would be more than happy to fight her after school. She kept her distance from me following my note.

Woah Leigh. I wouldnt have liked to get on the wrong side of you at school! 😉

Amazing isnt it. I witnessed this woman tell my friend that she looked like some other female, a woman that wasnt known to take care of themselves in any way shape or form. My friend responded and rejected the comment though pointed out to the white female who she thought she looked like. Equally the resemblance was not flattering but unfortuntately for the white female had much more truth in it than her comment to my friend. What happened?
Half an hour or so later whilst we had been sat in another part of the venue minding our own business, friends of the white girl came up to us saying how upset she was at my friends unecessary comment and that she was ‘crying’ cos she felt insulted and they didnt know why my friend was being so mean.

So, the moral is, its OK for certain people to think they can tell you something about yourself but, it is NEVER ok for others to respond to this, particularly in the case of some WW…

Woah Leigh. I wouldnt have liked to get on the wrong side of you at school!

lol! People always tell me that I can be a spitfire (no pun intended) when I want to be. 😉 Usually, I’m somewhat shy, but I’m pretty friendly and generous to those who know me.

Amazing isnt it. I witnessed this woman tell my friend that she looked like some other female, a woman that wasnt known to take care of themselves in any way shape or form. My friend responded and rejected the comment though pointed out to the white female who she thought she looked like. Equally the resemblance was not flattering but unfortuntately for the white female had much more truth in it than her comment to my friend. What happened?
Half an hour or so later whilst we had been sat in another part of the venue minding our own business, friends of the white girl came up to us saying how upset she was at my friends unecessary comment and that she was ‘crying’ cos she felt insulted and they didnt know why my friend was being so mean.

Isn’t it interesting that the white girl’s friends came up to your friend and you and not the white girl herself.

So, the moral is, its OK for certain people to think they can tell you something about yourself but, it is NEVER ok for others to respond to this, particularly in the case of some WW…

Omg, I wish I had known how to stand up for myself like that when I was young. Instead I just shriveled away and ran the risk of forever being misunderstood by all and sundry through lack of confidence/fighting skills.

How did you learn to fight back like that?
I ask because I never knew. I suppose I always got mixed messages about fight back: if you fight you are a bad person, if you fight back you are just as bad as the person who attacked you AND conforming to a reputation that everyone expects of you, and, if you fight you’re going to get more hurt anyway….

Believe me when I say I’m one of the shyest, quietest people you’ll ever meet. I’m not aggressive in the least. To be honest, I really don’t know what came over me. I had this sick feeling in the pit of my stomach, and the more I thought about the unfairness of the situation, I became very angry. And it just boiled over, I suppose.

I’m not sure that much, if anything has. Another incident springs to mind – some 15 or so years ago, I was out in a pub that I used to frequent as it was my cousins local.

This couple used to come in there who were always rowing with each other. She, a bleach blonde permed headed girl, him a guy with short dreds. Their demeanour always the same – him seemingly laughing it off and her always looking pinched in the face. She used to talk to me at first but, one day I was in the pub, minding my own business and she and him were having quite a heated row. He came over and randomly cupped my breast!!! I was horrified and recoiled and asked what the hell he thought he was doing. He didnt reply, merely walked back to her where she proceeded to cry and storm out.

Her friends looked at me daggers – it was my fault of course even though I was visibly upset (though not crying) about the incident!!! The female herself used to give me bad eye whenever she saw me. (She stayed with the guy and I even saw them together recently the same scenario, her looking pinched, him smirking). You know what, I never did find out what the argument was about either.

Unfortunately, this is a white supremacy system, which is based on giving white people more privileges and “rights” than non-white people. That being said, the only way to dismantle this system of gross injustice is to tell the truth about this system instead of pretending that we are not impacted by it.

After reading some of the personal testimonies on this thread, it is clear that white people — especially white females — know they benefit more than non-whites. The real challenge is to get non-white people to understand and admit it.

The sense of entitlement that some men think they have over women’s bodies never fails to floor me.

Yes. I felt violated and less ‘human’ following this. Like, it didnt matter, he could touch me any way he wanted to to prove something to this female – I never saw them even so much as exchange a kiss in public yet he could do that to me and not bat an eyelid.

But we notice, too, how the game is acted out: white woman in starring role – romantic lead – of course. Emoting, and the only “real” woman on the stage…and the emotional reality of the not-white woman? Marginalized.

Of course. Funny, I recall telling a friend about that incident and when I described the female she said ‘oh thats such and such such and such, we were at school together. She always maintained she hated BP and would certainly never go out with a BM…’

@TrojanPam

After reading some of the personal testimonies on this thread, it is clear that white people — especially white females — know they benefit more than non-whites.

I remember having a discussion with a white female colleague a few years ago that links in directly to this topic. I was saying that I wouldnt mind having more children but my husband was not keen. Her response ‘just cry and keep on crying, thats what I do until I get my own way!’

Naively she obviously thought this approach would work across the board but, in my experience this hasnt been the case at all….

The best way to learn about the ways of white people is from other white people. In the words of the very wise Mr. Neely Fuller, Jr.: “If you don’t understand white supremacy, what it is and how it works, everything else you understand will only confuse you.”

The greater understanding non-whites have of this system, the more we weaken the greatest system of deception in the history of mankind. Bottom line, our very survival rests upon having that understanding.

One thing i have learned–white people stick together. Even when they don’t want to, they will for the greater good of white supremacy.

Black people don’t do this–to a large degree. When black women cry–mainly by the black community–it is seen as emotional. You know us black girls live for drama. You know other stuff too; we can’t reason and are illogical if our feelings get hurt. What if a black woman is crying and she has very good reason too? It is like black people, both men and women are not allowed to be you know–just people.

I don’t even think Asian women are allowed to cry even when they need to. Especially if there are white men around because white women (the racist and insecure ones) believe that Asian women’s tears are their way at tempting white men to fall for them.

IME, white women can be very threatened by Asian women. I think this may apply to non white women in various ways.

White women have been threatened by us since slavery when the master would leave his white wife alone in her beautifully dressed nightgown and carefully curled locks to fornicate with his slaves.

The racial aminus is ever present with white women. This can be seen with Michelle Obama when she is being attacked by white male Republicans.
I’m writing a post about why they keep quiet with her but defend Ms. Fluke.

Amen, I can second that. When I’m out and about it’s WW that check me out from head to toe and give me the evil eye. Not bragging because I don’t consider it a compliment to have WW practice racism on me.

If you’re a nice-looking BW with a nice figure, you have had that experience

Just google the ‘Hollywood Reporter Women in Entertainment Power List’ and you’ll see how WW have very powerful positions in the entertainment and media industries.

Which explains why brown and dark-skinned BW are usually portrayed as obese and undesirable and why it is RARE to see a beautiful, sexually attractive dark skinned BW in TV or in the movies OR to see a BM actor loving or romancing and having sex with a BW.

WW are so competitive and envious of BW that they are taking black babies (adoption AKA theft), and are rushing to have brown babies with BM. Why they’re paying thousands of dollars to plastic surgeons and the beauty industry to have

bigger lips
bigger butts
bigger breasts
darker skin
curlier hair

You should check out this book ‘The Interracial Con Game’ which lays out the whole sexual competition from WW toward BW.

Have you noticed how many WM make catty and vicious comments about BW’s looks? For example, Don Imus, Rush Limbaugh and Republican congressman Sensebrenner (an overweight WM) who said Michelle Obama’s had a big butt?

I have seen this kind of strange male hostility and jealousy in down-low males who have yet to come out of the closet. I would hazard a guess that behind a lot of this white males bashing black women is due to some hidden hostility based on the sexual threat that BW present to the down-low white male. AND their not so hidden desire to HOMOSEXUALIZE the black male.

The book I mentioned in my last post also details this UNDENIABLE WM behavior.

WW are so competitive and envious of BW that they are taking black babies (adoption AKA theft), and are rushing to have brown babies with BM.

Actually Welsing has a theory about this. She says more and more white women will want to mate with black men so that before they die,they will have contributed “color” to this world. She says that for white women, having a child of color grow in their wombs and birthing them is empowering.

But, my thing is, there are enough black men in this world to go around so no need to feel all competitive.

I think the American media likes to perpetuate the myth of the almost extinct decent black man.

Have you noticed how many WM make catty and vicious comments about BW’s looks? For example, Don Imus, Rush Limbaugh and Republican congressman Sensebrenner (an overweight WM) who said Michelle Obama’s had a big butt?

I beg to differ. I don’t think its so much as the white men being catty–i think it is more or less feelings of inadequacy they have when it comes to black men that gets projected on to black women. This is because racist white men want to believe that they are the most desired males and they know that historically they have turned many black women off and that ultimately she (black woman) will prefer black men above him.

@ phoebeprunelle who said, “But, my thing is, there are enough black men in this world to go around so no need to feel all competitive.”

Following that logic, there are enough resources in this world to go around but that doesn’t make white people feel secure enough to stop practicing racism/white supremacy.

WW are not competitive just for their individual emotional needs, they are dedicated to maintaining a system of white domination and that includes dominating AND taking any and everything that belongs to BW. It has nothing to do with supply and demand and everything to do with white supremacy and white domination.

I caution us not to underestimate or be too cavalier about the damage that this “competition” can wreak in our lives. There is too much evidence that proves how dangerous they can be.

You make a good point about the “cattiness” of white males toward black females and I also would add that there is a TON of hidden homosexuality among the WM population and I believe this accounts for the UN-NATURALNESS of any man who spends any time ‘dissing’ women’s body parts.

A normal man — in my opinion — either likes the way a woman looks or he doesn’t and if he doesn’t he doesn’t spend a lot of time thinking about it. He just ignores it — and her.

It just strikes me that a man who talks about women the way a woman would talk about a woman has got a whole lot of “woman” in him and maybe a pair of pantyhose underneath those slacks to boot.

(And I’m not referring to homosexual males who are openly homosexual).

Following that logic, there are enough resources in this world to go around but that doesn’t make white people feel secure enough to stop practicing racism/white supremacy.

Exactly–hence i said i don’t see the need for competition. Makes no real logical sense.

A normal man — in my opinion — either likes the way a woman looks or he doesn’t and if he doesn’t he doesn’t spend a lot of time thinking about it. He just ignores it — and her.

No, not white men, IME. Even straight white men will “diss” a woman’s body parts that he doesn’t particularly find attractive. Keep in mind that white men evolved slightly different when it comes to sexual attraction than other groups of men. Their experience in the last ice age is the culprit.

It just strikes me that a man who talks about women the way a woman would talk about a woman has got a whole lot of “woman” in him and maybe a pair of pantyhose underneath those slacks to boot.

Isn’t it pretty small minded to paint the largest group of women in the united states with the same brush? I see comments stating all white women are manipulative and others implying that all white women and white people are racist and full of hate. The things that the people here and the article imply and state are the same things you hope never happen to you again. Get mad about injustices and hatemongers but don’t fight racism and hate with more racism and hate. I have seen more racism on this page alone than the entire time I have lived in the south.

I would have to agree about the statement of white women being emotionally manipulative.

In its own way; its interesting to see women interact with one another, whereas men have more static or solid hierarchies women’s seems to be more based on water.

Its always fluid and moving and so they are always saying back handed compliments, gossiping about one another behind their backs, manipulating others to do what they want…..

Life for women is one constant, never ending power play or series of domination games.

At least it is for white women in the south, mileage may vary elsewhere.

Its honestly why I suspect marriages between white men and black women last and marriages between black men and white women tend to be more likely to fail.

Stereotypically speaking black women may get angrier and be more aggressive but its honest and to the point, black women are shooting from the hip so to speak.

So whatever problems exist get brought up and dealt with.

With white women its lies, manipulation, deceit, back stabbing, emotional falsities, creating drama and then pretending to be innocent the whole time….

White women don’t just use their tears to get out of racist scenarios they literally use it on some level for almost every facet of their life.

And that can be “damn” hard to deal with.

By comparison the angry black women is probably a relieve to deal with, they may be angry but at least they are honest about whatever the issue is.

White women on the other hand will pretend to be innocent, alter the presentation of the issue or even start a fight simply to manipulate you into doing something while not having any real complaints or care about what the “fight” itself was about.

Or even compare angry black women to angry white women, black women usually have a reason for getting mad, whether or not its a justified level of response there is still a reason.

Whereas angry white women just seem to use it as a way of dealing with every social situation and life itself.

They don’t do it because something specific pissed them off, they do it because thats just how they are.

Hell; most women who complain about their emotions not being treated as “legitimate” etc…..its like women can have good reasons for their emotions but men can’t have good reasons for downplaying their emotions or any argument based on them?

Get mad about injustices and hatemongers but don’t fight racism and hate with more racism and hate. I have seen more racism on this page alone than the entire time I have lived in the south.

This is where i think you missed the mark. The posters here are to a large extent mad and fighting racism, but they are not fighting fire with fire as you seem to imply. They are fighting it with truth. At the end of the day, truth has no color, nor does it show favoritism. Truth seeks to restore balance and order to this world, but unless ALL people deal with the uncomfortable truths we are back to square one of dealing chaos and injustice.

When black people discuss and try to make sense of their experience in North America with white racism–it simply cannot be labeled reverse racism! You are discounting a whole group’s authentic experience. For instance, when the Eastern European Jews produce films, short stories, memoirs and autobiographies, do people jump and chastize them and tell them that their experience was not what it was? Hell no.

Black people are not against whites–they are against hegemony, imperialism, and injustice.

I agree with everything you said. I am tired of seeing post after post of people getting angry at experiences that others have and trying to take away from them. It sickens me to see so many self righteous people thinking that a person’s life experiences don’t matter. This blog site really does show the ignorance in some people. All they are doing is showing proof that racism is a real problem.

Abagond.. The same exact thing happened to me when I was studying abroad in England with my college group. I’m Somali and I was talking to the most popular white boy in our group. Because we were living in Harry Potter castle and the guy resembled Ron.. smh. Basically he had red hair and that made him hot to all the white unattractive girls. The few pretty white girls could care less. Anyways, he had a problem of finding a place to live near campus when we would return to the U.S. (We all attended St. Cloud State University). I suggested a neighborhood near campus that was affordable. But he said it was unsafe, had neighborhood teenagers that preyed on college students and stole they’re things. He was correct I’ve heard of such incidences. Out of nowhere one of is major admirers scoffed out “yeah it’s Somali central”. I was so surprised and caught of guard by her racism because that sort of thing is always said around white circles. So I politely said to her that what she said was amazingly offensive because I’m Somali (I don’t look Somali, but I am 100%, I look mixed race). She was shocked that she let her racism show in front of her target victim and she apologized. I knew if I didn’t take her apology I’d be reinforcing the stereotype that black people (girls in particular) are mean. So I sweetly took her apology. She began to silently cry, guess what, her love interest did not come to her rescue. No one did. An interesting thing happens when white women don’t have anyone come to their aid, their true anger rears it’s ugly head. She became angry and from then on hated me. I think her dream boyfriend didn’t come to her rescue because of his red hair. I know red headed white people suffer a lot of teasing and so build good characters for empathy. He also has come to my rescue a month after that incident in England when we both were absent from a party with teachers and classmates where the teacher announced that our final exam was moved to a much later time. My teacher and classmates forgot to remind me of the changed schedule but numerous individuals practically fell all over each other to get to him and let him (Mr. Ron Weasley) know of the news. I found out class was moved to 6pm at 6:30pm. I stormed the castle (pun intended) and let my fury be known that I was pissed. Nobody even noticed I was missing. The only freaking black person. Ron, real name Collin, later gave me all the answers to the test. None of the students were sorry they forgot to tell me. We spent months together, shared meals and lodgings. The teacher was extremely sorry and gave me my choice and time of when I could take the exam.

“…lies, manipulation, deceit, back stabbing, emotional falsities, creating drama and then pretending to be innocent the whole time….” EXACTLY!!! And when they trip that light fantastic, I just stare at all that sniffling and whining not saying a word until they finish. Then I turn my back and walk away. Let them run that shady game on someone new.

sometimes i feel like i’m living on a 2d boardgame where everyone is a pawn and has moves and repeats these moves and then complains about the moves that other people make against them and/or congratulate themselves on the moves that they make.

Ironically, this is quite a racist post, too! I don’t really think writing blanket statements about a race and even honing in on a gender is going to win people over. It’s alienating. Furthermore, if you have to be “mean” to stand up for your cause, then by all means, be mean! Cut into a person’s soul! But for fuck’s sake, be sane and fair about it. If the objective is to change the way a person feels about something or point something out, your speaking tactics ought to reflect that. I recommend using the Socratic method.

“I don’t really think writing blanket statements about a race and even honing in on a gender is going to win people over.”

– – –

Point taken.

I for one have never viewed the many blanket statements coming from whites (and others) about Blacks — Black women in particular — as attempts at winning over Black people…yet, they make those statements anyway.

Maybe it wasn’t the notion of ‘winning Blacks over’ that they had in mind after all….

“Ironically, this is quite a racist post, too! I don’t really think writing blanket statements about a race and even honing in on a gender is going to win people over. It’s alienating. Furthermore, if you have to be “mean” to stand up for your cause, then by all means, be mean! Cut into a person’s soul! But for fuck’s sake, be sane and fair about it. If the objective is to change the way a person feels about something or point something out, your speaking tactics ought to reflect that. I recommend using the Socratic method.”

Let’s point out the usual replies that make everything wrong with this reply:

“Ironically, this is quite a racist post, too! I don’t really think writing blanket statements about a race and even honing in on a gender is going to win people over. It’s alienating.”

*************

Don’t think that the purpose of this blog is to WIN whites over. It isn’t. Mere, or even exceptional words, have never been able to stop racism/white supremacy.

This site exists to inform, confirm, vindicate and give voice to *OUR* experiences, feelings, understanding, observations, frustrations, realizations about what, how, who and why these things happen to *us* in a racist white supremacist, over-privileged global network.

We are not here to woo you. White “feelings” are not center stage here.

“Ironically, this is quite a racist post, too! I don’t really think writing blanket statements about a race and even honing in on a gender is going to win people over. It’s alienating. Furthermore, if you have to be “mean” to stand up for your cause, then by all means, be mean! Cut into a person’s soul! But for fuck’s sake, be sane and fair about it. If the objective is to change the way a person feels about something or point something out, your speaking tactics ought to reflect that. I recommend using the Socratic method.”

So like if I wrote a post condemning the Holocaust would you recommend using the Socratic method so that I do not alienate Germans and cut into their souls?

Although this was not a case of white women crying–it may as well have been–

I am one of only two black girls in my program–everyone else is white. My licensure partner is one of the white girls–by most standards she is average in attractiveness. She confided in me one day that she has never had a serious relationship with a man and that she was concerned about this. She asked me had i ever had any problems in dating–i told her that i was already married and she beamed. She then asked me to help her find someone. I could only suspect that she meant a black guy. When i told her that black guys were the men i knew personally she said she was open and that she really didn’t know what she liked and that as long as he was Christian, athletic and tall was all that mattered.

I agreed to help her–looking back i should have realized this was an experiment on her part. The hard part and strange part about all of this is that when i would tell potential brothers that she was white–they would get shakey. Some even said “I don’t know about all that…let me think about it” or “Weeeeelllll” followed by a long excuse. I finally asked a married brother i worked with who said he “may” know someone who would be interested but to produce a picture so they could exchange.

When i told my white classmate she agreed–but then by the weekend she sent me an e-mail saying “thanks but no thanks”..

Since then, in class she has the intention of letting me know that her mentor has helped her find a decent white man. This is the part i think is hilarious–she also has stopped inviting me to their drinking outings on Friday after class–not that i cared that much anyway–remember i have a husband to go home and hang out with!

My husband was baffled by all this–his theory is that she did not expect that black people–especially black women–had wholesome values when it comes to choosing a mate and that she was only expecting a booty-call and when she saw that that is not how black people operate–her “whiteness” kicked in.

Funny because most of the sisters i have shared this with have chastised me about it by saying “i shouldn’t have agreed to help her in the first place”.

@phoebeprunelle
You should have just told her that helping her find a hookup is not part of your skill set nor is doing her laundry or washing her dishes. You are not her mammy. Caring white women’s water is bad on the lower back.

So if you really had to give a talk to a White woman about her racism (and it’s impossible to stop seeing them because they’re connected to you through family)… what could you do if they start crying and acting all sorry for themselves the moment you try to explain why you’re upset with their behaviour and politely ask them to stop?

I think she is trying to get closer to me by talking about race, but she’s so ignorant and privileged (and old, so comes from a time when more racist things were acceptable), everything that comes out of her mouth is outrageously offensive. I have been thinking of telling her that she either does more research into the topic of race and racism in society, or stops trying to talk to me about race because everything she says is offensive and she doesn’t even seem to realise (or maybe she does, but that’s another story).

The last time she said something I narrowed my eyes and raised an eyebrow and she got wide-eyed and shaky. So I’m concerned she will simply burst out crying when I say that, even if it is a reasonable request that doesn’t really accuse her of anything.

Iris you’re up the creek on that one. I’ve had to cut off “friends” but in that case I had a choice. My pool of patience ran out even faster when I realized I was being resented for resenting ignorant bs.

Feminine racism…. Interesting topic. I’ve seen traits like this in Japanese women too. I’m sure sub-Saharan women never do this. 😉

I think to get rid of any bad-habit, if I can classify racism as a bad-habit, you need to see the benefits of it. For example, gossip gives a temporary bond, even if in the long term, you lose the trust of your partner in crime, as they’ll never know when you’re going to gossip about them. Large quantities of fat and sugar give short term physical comfort, with long term health risks. Racism meets a basic need to feel superior, without having to differentiate oneself with legitimate effort. “I’m better than you because someone from my tribe invented the telephone, performed the first heart-transplant, won the most olympic gold medals or nobel prizes (as the case may be).” The long term result is, isolating friends (like Iris’s elderly friend), creating enemies and generally stunting one’s own personal growth and opportunities.

However hating haters is not the answer. So many people jump on the “burn the racist” bandwagon, to overcompensate for their suppressed racism. If you don’t recognize the racism within, then you can never help anyone else with their racism problem.

@Abagond, Thanks for a provocative post, which is still getting new ideas two years later.

[“As I’ve written before, Abagond, the cornerstone of white supremacy IS the white female. White women’s tears are effectively a ‘call to arms’ to noble white men to put some ‘uppity Negro’ in his place, or to comfort them from the masculine wrath of the angry Black female.

Jesus, has your country got some issues to work through or what????

Menelik Charles
London England”]

You need to take a good long look at your own country. Because you’re not any better.

Honestly I believe the reason some asians races are so generally well received and integrated into any system is that regardless of what socioeconomic background we come from, rich or dirt poor, we tend to keep our heads down, mind our own business, and work our asses off instead of complain or pass blame. I think people generally perceive those as good qualities. Time is the most precious commodity and generally there’s NO time for thinking deeply about forbears that were in camps or murdered or even things that have happened to me, as I detailed in my previous post. We keep our focus. We know if we don’t achieve, our parents will literally kick our asses into the ground as we’d have, in the worst way, dishonored them and the sacrifices of their parents and so on.

One time, I tried to reason with my dad that I didn’t get a commitment done because the teacher assigning work was a vacuous and vague moron and because my parents had asked me to babysit my brothers the same night I was supposed to complete the project. My brothers didn’t get their work done either, and my parents held me responsible for my lack of leadership and their mistakes. Guess who got a severe beating for having a sub intelligent instructor and undisciplined brothers? I did. Because there are no excuses and as an older sister, I set the example. My little brothers’ transgressions are mine and mine are my older sister’s.

There were six asians in my high school class (two Japanese, one Chinese, three Taiwanese, and three were scholarship kids) and every one of them has matured to really make something of their lives. A few of them are doing extraordinary things and are in the news. I also have a black friend from graduate school who was orphaned, came from a very impoverished background but has a life outlook very similar to mine. She is in her early thirties and has done well for herself, making multiple millions a year in salary. She has never been passed up for a promotion because she’s black; in fact, I think being African American, female, and ridiculously savvy has been a big boon, if one were to analyze her situation. She is dedicated, gets along with everyone, and the white employers in her mostly white company have proudly put her front and center of their projects. In her search for the right guy, she has dated men of every race and is now engaged to an equally successful black entrepreneur.

I firmly believe if you waste time thinking about the limitations other people may or may not see in you, it’s no good. Who cares anyway? Forget about race and rely on your present strengths and just work hard. Like I said, I have never seen racial delineations until the the very brutal experience I had when I was a teenager. As bad as it gets I have never allowed that and my being asian to define how I see myself. In fact, the only time I get depressed about that period these days is when I have nightmares or too much time to sit around and and start knocking around what happened in my head, which is a rare thing.

I suffered a terrible hate crime and have worked hard to get over it. I rarely talk about my experience, ever. Its way too loaded for me. Also if I were stuck in the past always examining what other terrible things happened in my family historically (a lot of political persecution and executions), I would never make any progress and I would not be where I am today. Plus thats not the stuff I want to pass to my children. Maybe its time for the people to stop arguing about racial semantics, let go of who did what to our grandparents, great grandparents, etc. Instead we can try minding our own business and work to make our own dreams come true. It works for asian americans.

Actually please don’t post my first comment that is in moderation. It’s still a very raw experience for me after all these years and I decided I would rather not have it in public. My pt is that racism doesn’t just exist in a white on black vacuum. Black people can also be very racist towards asians and other races.

Finally, in reference to your post, I have never seen any of my white female friends cry, except twice, when one lost her wedding ring and another got married. Heck, I haven’t cried since I was fifteen, but then, I’m not white, but I did grow up among white friends.

As ridiculous as this may be to you folks, its true. My friends, both male and female, are a mostly white, with some racial mix. We are tough, high achieving group by any standards, and we’re generally emotionally stoic. By your theory, the many white females I know would be outliers in their lack of racist comments. My friends tend to judge others more by their achievements and contributions. None of my friends even talk about race, and I have experienced violent black on asian hate crime, so I would have something really valid to complain about, if that were my aim. To me, that’s just self indulgence. My husband and I are in the middle of our first vacation in a year and I just somehow stumbled into this crazy page earlier. It’s so out there and misguided that I had to say something.

I have never seen a white woman cry to exact sympathy for a racist comment. I have seen all KINDS of people on here making racist comments and wasting time better spent improving themselves and getting things done than complaining about others.

A lot of this is not about racism but maturity if you think about it. Stop spreading further division and hate.

How long did it take you to write your essay of a response to this blog? I bet not long, so what makes you believe that it takes time away from people’s daily activities or “improving themselves” as you put it? You played into one of the biggest stereotypes out there and was not smart enough to realize it.

Secondly I don’t think the blog is just refering to crying in the literal sense, but rather when the individual plays victim to avoid said wrong. Sad part is I didn’t read the blog thoroughly and got that much.

@Nina
Dear, you seem to have missed the entire point of the post. Abagond is not talking about literal tears, and if you’d read it you probably would have understood what he was actually saying. Please try again after you’ve actually bothered to learn anything about what you’re trying to guilt trip everyone on. 🙂

That first comment made by Menelik Charles:
‘As I’ve written before, Abagond, the cornerstone of white supremacy IS the white female. White women’s tears are effectively a ‘call to arms’ to noble white men to put some ‘uppity Negro’ in his place, or to comfort them from the masculine wrath of the angry Black female.

Jesus, has your country got some issues to work through or what????

Menelik Charles
London England’

I agreed with you until you said…..’Your country’ !!!!???!! lol Black British women go through the exact identical effed up process with white women and racism in the Uk. Remember England invented America, so we live in the eye of the beast!
Only difference is that Black British men are with White women so much so that you end up staring at black couples because they seem like such a strange occurance. Unless they are christian or foreign, young Black British couples are RARE and yet Black British women are expected to be cool with it all?
If you are a Black woman in the western hemisphere and racism happens to inevitably cross your path understand that you are on your own….noone will come to your defense. Its almost as if alot of Black men dont see how Black women are effected by racism, it as if many Black men think that BM are the only ones that racism effects and that white men are there only enemy?

Sexism and Racism combined aint that a bitch.

If a white woman feels aggrieved you the Black woman are expected to pay. You cannot work with or be friends with or have a relationship with people who think that they are superior to you, it doesnt work if you have self respect.
Its all about being self employed and moving to a majority black country someday.

Once the game is 80% complete you will need to work on the sound.
Then came the ultra-popular Arkham games,
that place you, like never before, into Batman’s shoes as he skulks around and knocks hoodlums heads together (literaly). People are now looking to be able to connect to things like their vehicles through their smart phones, and now Buick has announced the release of their new e – Assist Fuel Effeciency smartphone games.

Interesting piece. I’ve not seen that behaviour personally, but that *kind* of behaviour seems very familiar from TV debates and Internet discussions. I get the extra potency it may have when exhibited by a woman, but plenty of men try the wounded “Racist? Moi?”mantle on for size.

There is plenty of racism in both directions. It seems to me that black-against-white racism is simply a reaction to history and to persistent prejudice that remains all too common today. White-against-black racism was the original template. It is fuelled by the inexplicable, arrogant superiority complex of affluent white Europeans and their former colonial descendants. This is made all the more shameful by the fact that much of the wealth that bolsters that smug superiority was acquired at the expense or indigenous peoples whom we ripped off.

Sorry, I’m rambling without focus here.

A last note: I was surprised to see so many replies wasted on the “Alan B’Stard M P” troll earlier. From the username and from the URL linked from his sig, it was evident that the person dropped by simply to piss everyone off.

I have to laugh when anyone writes that white women are “oppressed” and lays white supremacy/oppression at the feet of white men. Many fellow black women AND Black men have had to fight for their jobs or lost their jobs not because of white men, but because of white WOMEN!

When I was younger in a 90% or more white environment and think back now, while there were many nice white women, the most miserable, meanest people I can remember were white adult women who said things to me or treated me differently.

White women are no nicer or black friendly than white men! The only reason is that republicans tend to want to put programs in place that appear anti-feminist or anti-woman rights, that’s why white women vote Democrat, but not because they disagree with white supremacy.

It’s just like with many Hispanics, they are no less racist but only because of what Republicans want to do do they vote democrat.

I watched my mother come home, sit around, depressed after work on two different occasions because she was being harassed by a white woman at work. Both occasions, the white women were able to harass her ( for being black) and get her fired.

I have dealt with it on the job as well. The white men there were hating but so were the white women. Very hateful and anti-black.

Alot of whites hate blacks merely because we look different from them and will try to deny you an opportunity or get you fired merely because we/they are black.

We are not making this up. It’s easy for you to tell us not to talk about race but that’s not a reality we have ever been able to see. Where “race” didn’t matter! It’s not us blacks but whites who have the race problem.

We will be able to stop discussing race and racism/race-hate/racial oppression/unequality when whites STOP THE RACISM the vast majority practice.

good post. I too believe many White men want to homosexualize Black men along with marginalize Black women. This is a phenomenon I have experienced since being around whites and find white women participate. It’s a sick thing that goes along with their racism.

Yes, white men often act more aggressive to black women in a way that feels un-natural because in the company of black men AND Black women, white men often turn to harass the black woman, which to me is odd. They also always want to make black women feel “unwanted”. I have noticed this since I first went to a heavily white college. It was as if white men did not want black men to find black women attractive, heck, they didn’t want anyone to find black women attractive, not even themselves.
——————————–
Re:

One more thing while I’m on the topic

Have you noticed how many WM make catty and vicious comments about BW’s looks? For example, Don Imus, Rush Limbaugh and Republican congressman Sensebrenner (an overweight WM) who said Michelle Obama’s had a big butt?

I have seen this kind of strange male hostility and jealousy in down-low males who have yet to come out of the closet. I would hazard a guess that behind a lot of this white males bashing black women is due to some hidden hostility based on the sexual threat that BW present to the down-low white male. AND their not so hidden desire to HOMOSEXUALIZE the black male.

The book I mentioned in my last post also details this UNDENIABLE WM behavior.

I go to school and many White women there are always aggressive to me in one way or another. It was horrible my freshmen year of high school with the bullying. Most White women, I have come across in my town, think that they are better than me and look down on me. They treat the bigger Black women with more respect than me and I don’t understand why. Many of them look at me as if I am a threat to me because of my existence.

@Gina
Hello, there, White women aren’t more Black friendly than White men. White women is actually used as a tool to promote White supremacy and actually a lot like their White men.

It was like that growing up in my high school. Many white women there were stuck-up not only to black girls but blacks period. A lot of them look at me as some typical dumb wanna-be thug. I could tell they were afraid of me. Though there were some that were cool.

I have to be really deep cover for this, but the ignorant “I’ve never seen it!” comment on the FB page made me do it.

Yeah, I’ve seen it . I’ve seen it in a boardroom full of white people. I’ve seen a fellow white female director when confronted with a serious and systemic defect in her workflow processes break down crying and accuse others of attacking her personally as a ploy to garner sympathy from the male CEO and deflect the issue, which was the issue, not her personally. It worked. That process is still flawed and customers still suffer for it.

Now before anyone should hew and cry that this nothing to do with race, imagine that female director a black woman. That outburst would have been considered crazy, weak, a show of mental illness or incompetence instead of the manipulation and disgusting strategy of deflection it was.

If you want a definition of white female privilege, there you have it. You’ve seen it, but if you’re white you probably thought it was good old fashioned chivalry.

Where is the literature about people of color fulfilling the stereotype and discriminating back?

I am someone who sees no color and surely I do not understand discrimination by any means but I feel as though the ability to claim one is being racially discriminated against is abused. There are certainly minority groups discriminated against as a result of literature that speaks to white, middle-class males, however there are other means of unfair treatment beyond skin color.

I am fairly young so I wasn’t raised when explicit racism was on at an all time high however I sit in classes and listen to certain minority groups play he victim card all the time. Should I apologize for being white?

Just discovered you through a FB group I’m on. Your post clearly spells the issues of racism out. I’m reading Devil in the Grove which highlights a case in Groveland, FL in the 1940’s where a white woman falsely cried rape and blacks were killed because of it. We as white people, need to educate ourselves more instead of protect ourselves from being accused of being racist. Read some real history (remember, history is written by the victors, and in schools in the US, it’s all written from the white, male perspective).

Instead of running off and crying like a tween, apologize and learn how to be a better person. Knowledge is power. And, white privilege can be used for good or evil. It all comes down to choices and whether you want to live a life filled with love, or fear and hate.

This whole blog points out the hypocrisy and racism of White America and how it affects Blacks and minorities. This blog also dignifies and respects the beauty of Black women while NOT disrespecting White women’s beauty. Yes, racism is an issue in America but many people, Black and White aren’t honest enough to accept the fact that racism is still a problem in AmeriKKKlan.

White women are considered the epitome of beauty in AmeriKKKlan. Back in the Jim Crow era and earlier, White men in power felt that they should protect White women from the ”savage beast” that is Black men. So if a White woman complained of a Black male flirting with her or raping her, all hell broke loose and they would go in the Black Community and lynch and kill Blacks.

Even to this day when a White woman is down, she is comforted and uplifted thus the effect of ”White woman’s tears”.

If we were playing a card game WWT would be the ultimate trump card. The get out of jail card of life. If you are a black man around this you had better find your Briar Rabbit. I am not sure a Black Woman can escape it. I have seen few black women bodies laid out for the altar of shame because they have confronted it. Just ask the Greeks, Helen of Troy your tears made a red river flow. If anything confronting it you would end up like Cassandra. Those tears more precious than rare stones it seems. That is why the media is often inundated with them. White girls kidnapped, Jessica Lynch vs Shosana Johnson, Jon Bonnet Ramsey, Adam’s mother(son of the host of American’s Most Wanted). Lindsey Lohan who always seems to escape long prison times. The shortest vs in the Bible “Jesus Wept” and I can say, So do I. However, I still believe they can just Cry me a River, because I don’t give a hoot over them. Dangerous as those tears are.
I do not think all white women are this way but the ones who are shadows are long and encompassing.

there were some white women crying over Blackpeoplemeet.com. They deemed the site unfair to them in their online dating searches for Black men.

Although the site never discriminated based on skin color, i think they were griping because many of the Black men that joined up were looking for Black single women in their areas–therefore, the white women were not a commodity in this venue…

I don’t think white women in this case were all that interested in meeting Black men–they–like white men–couldn’t stand the “thought” of being excluded so it drove them nuts.

White women will even get upset over Black women at work who have healthy, functional and close friendships with each other.

It is really a sick and pathological pattern that any one who is willing to look at gendered racism can see.

That picture is sobering because white women’s tears have gotten black men lynched, but yet black men still run behind a white women, not realizing that even in 2013, those tears can still get him killed.

Wow. You are stereotyping all white women into one category. Most white women I know first would not be accused of racism. Secondly if they were they would not be reduced to tears. The lynching photo from the 1930’s is horrific. Isn’t that what you want to happen to Zimmerman. Justice by the people? Whether or not he is innocent or guilty? Justice taken into your own hands because of your hate? Zimmerman is not white, he is a minority himself. You are stepping into the shoes of the whites in the photo you posted, being the people filled with fear and hate. You have this website to list your hate for white people and how unfair our country is, yet we have a President who is African American and leaders in Congress and the Senate and businesses across the country who are African American. We have all come a long way since 1930, since 1960, since 1990. Do you believe you are not racist?

Michelle what fantasy world are you speaking off? If you check the FBI’s Uniform Crime Statistics you will find that more than 10,000 White women are raped annually by blak men vs. 0-1 blak women raped by White men a year. Seriously you need to stop perpetuating such blatantly false and laughable accusations. A blak women couldn’t get a White guy to rape them if they payed them.

That’s not to mention white men raping white women. But I guess Rick Miller doesn’t see that a problem, and as such, chooses to stay quiet about it.

Anyway, tears are very effective when you want people to feel sorry for you no matter what sin you’ve committed or when you just want your way. White women have gotten it down packed. And since, they’re already stereotyped as pure and innocent, they can just about practically get away with murder if they could.

“Racism needs to be called out. Letting it go unchallenged, giving it a pass, is MORE racist.”

Abagond, this is so much BS from you. Many of your regulars here, and you even, are extremely racist. However, you hide behind the idea that “racism is a term that can only be used toward those in power, therefore minorities cannot be racist…blah….blah”. Call it a different name, the words on this site exemplify it. Then the other excuse is “there are plenty of other sites calling blacks out and I want to provide a space to call whites out”. No, you provide an unbalanced space for the hysterical.

I suppose you could hide behind some post-modernist clap trap of “well everyone is racist…blah…blah”. So much crap. You’re a computer scientist with these chops? Ask me how far I was into programming before I had to sort a list and re-invented bubble sort in 1 hour over a pack of playing cards and some coffee?

Typical white racist male comment, when in reality most white females rape victims are raped by white males, INCLUDING their fathers, brothers, and other relatives and neighbors. (If anyone doubts this, try asking some WW)

Also, white males are the most PROLIFIC rapists in world history, including the rapes of African females for over 400 years and the rape of non-white females all over the world. And let’s not forget the thousands of white males who travel to Vietnam and Thailand to rape CHILDREN

Oh yeah, the Penn State scandal and many other undisclosed “rape rings” where mainly white males rape black and non-white boys

and the one thing I’m convinced of is the LOUDER white people talk about the “crimes” of blacks and non-whites, the MORE they are trying to HIDE THEIR OWN CRIMES and largely degenerate nature.

History certainly confirms this FACT.

@ all

check out the book, “The Dark at the End of the Street” which has DOCUMENTED the epidemic of rapes of black females AFTER slavery so-called ended by white males which was so common that white males in some towns had designated blacks where they committed these gang rapes, usually several white males would rape a sole black female they caught walking home from school or from church or work

It was also suspected that Strom Thurmond, another white male supremacst, who would probably agree with “Rick” was believed to have RAPED that 15 year old black girl working in his household who wound up having his child that was not acknowledged publicly until that pure white male was dead

the reason black females can’;t get justice when raped by white males is they are always portrayed as the villlains and what do we expect in a criminal justice system run by white males AND a system that let Trayvon Martin’s killer go free?

I usually post here as ‘Rick Marauderdad Buddhuu Cadger’. To avoid confusion with the other Rick, I’ll use my nickname ‘Buddhuu’ from now on.

Some people, like Rick, come here with no rational point to make, with no intention of engaging in genuine discussion. What is the point of responding to them? At least that other guy, Riverside Sideshow Bob or whatever the hell his name is, puts some creative effort into his bigotry…

The troll said: “A blak women couldn’t get a White guy to rape them if they payed them.”

If one forces oneself to work past the peculiar spelling and capitalisation, and to ignore the absurd concept of rape still being rape when the “victim” had paid the perpetrator, then the implication seems to be that Rick thinks it impossible for a white man to find a black woman attractive. One only has to