I'm glad they're starting to pin these guys down... but this is far from limited to the Guelph electoral campaign. There's a culture of unethical behaviour and underhanded tricks in the Conservative Party. It wasn't just the last election. It's visible also the In and Out scandal, where they literally attempted to defraud Elections Canada. It's incredibly apparent in the Nixon-style slandering of Irwin Cotler of all people as being anti-Israel to the Jewish constituents of Mount Royal. The Conservative Party doesn't respect this country's democratic institutions.

This is a conversation you'd never hear between a local campaign and the war room in the Liberal Party or the NDP (or if it did happen, someone would get their ass booted out of the campaign.)McBain was working in the party's central war room for the campaign and says Sona contacted him to suggest a campaign of disinformation. Crawford, who worked on the Burke campaign in Guelph, said he overheard a conversation between Sona and another campaign worker about "how the Americans do politics," but didn't think Sona was serious.

He CALLED them with his great dirty trick ideas! This guy probably read All The President's Men and considered Donald Segretti an inspiration. I am entirely unsurprised by revelations that the Conservative Party hires people who think running voter disinformation and suppression campaigns is a laudable practice.

Unethical behaviour is not a new discouraging thing. The chief thing that discourages me is that voter distrust is a common precursor for lack of public participation in politics, in general. And Canadian political participation is already at a grimly low level. How low can we go? There's a bigger concern about what this scandal could do to how people perceive politics and how they engage with it.

bobbette:I'm glad they're starting to pin these guys down... but this is far from limited to the Guelph electoral campaign. There's a culture of unethical behaviour and underhanded tricks in the Conservative Party. It wasn't just the last election. It's visible also the In and Out scandal, where they literally attempted to defraud Elections Canada. It's incredibly apparent in the Nixon-style slandering of Irwin Cotler of all people as being anti-Israel to the Jewish constituents of Mount Royal. The Conservative Party doesn't respect this country's democratic institutions.

This is a conversation you'd never hear between a local campaign and the war room in the Liberal Party or the NDP (or if it did happen, someone would get their ass booted out of the campaign.)McBain was working in the party's central war room for the campaign and says Sona contacted him to suggest a campaign of disinformation. Crawford, who worked on the Burke campaign in Guelph, said he overheard a conversation between Sona and another campaign worker about "how the Americans do politics," but didn't think Sona was serious.

He CALLED them with his great dirty trick ideas! This guy probably read All The President's Men and considered Donald Segretti an inspiration. I am entirely unsurprised by revelations that the Conservative Party hires people who think running voter disinformation and suppression campaigns is a laudable practice.

Unethical behaviour is not a new discouraging thing. The chief thing that discourages me is that voter distrust is a common precursor for lack of public participation in politics, in general. And Canadian political participation is already at a grimly low level. How low can we go? There's a bigger concern about what this scandal could do to how people perceive politics and how they engage with it.

I don't believe Sona said any of that since the higher ups were trying to pin it all on Sona from the start.. he's being framed

bobbette:This is a conversation you'd never hear between a local campaign and the war room in the Liberal Party or the NDP (or if it did happen, someone would get their ass booted out of the campaign.)McBain was working in the party's central war room for the campaign and says Sona contacted him to suggest a campaign of disinformation. Crawford, who worked on the Burke campaign in Guelph, said he overheard a conversation between Sona and another campaign worker about "how the Americans do politics," but didn't think Sona was serious.

Given the historic amounts of fraud, cronyism, bribery, and other such bullshiat that comes from the Liberal provincial and federal parties, I would absolutely expect to hear it in one of their strategy conversations.

Over the years, I've learned that although I ultimately want the centrist party to lead the government, they're all dirty thieves and liars.

starsrift:bobbette: This is a conversation you'd never hear between a local campaign and the war room in the Liberal Party or the NDP (or if it did happen, someone would get their ass booted out of the campaign.)McBain was working in the party's central war room for the campaign and says Sona contacted him to suggest a campaign of disinformation. Crawford, who worked on the Burke campaign in Guelph, said he overheard a conversation between Sona and another campaign worker about "how the Americans do politics," but didn't think Sona was serious.

Given the historic amounts of fraud, cronyism, bribery, and other such bullshiat that comes from the Liberal provincial and federal parties, I would absolutely expect to hear it in one of their strategy conversations.

Over the years, I've learned that although I ultimately want the centrist party to lead the government, they're all dirty thieves and liars.

i think its time to give the ndp their chance to fark up as the government

ontariolightning:starsrift: bobbette: This is a conversation you'd never hear between a local campaign and the war room in the Liberal Party or the NDP (or if it did happen, someone would get their ass booted out of the campaign.)McBain was working in the party's central war room for the campaign and says Sona contacted him to suggest a campaign of disinformation. Crawford, who worked on the Burke campaign in Guelph, said he overheard a conversation between Sona and another campaign worker about "how the Americans do politics," but didn't think Sona was serious.

Given the historic amounts of fraud, cronyism, bribery, and other such bullshiat that comes from the Liberal provincial and federal parties, I would absolutely expect to hear it in one of their strategy conversations.

Over the years, I've learned that although I ultimately want the centrist party to lead the government, they're all dirty thieves and liars.

i think its time to give the ndp their chance to fark up as the government

A few provinces mistakenly have voted in NDP as their ruling party. Ask them how it went....

SumoJeb:ontariolightning: starsrift: bobbette: This is a conversation you'd never hear between a local campaign and the war room in the Liberal Party or the NDP (or if it did happen, someone would get their ass booted out of the campaign.)McBain was working in the party's central war room for the campaign and says Sona contacted him to suggest a campaign of disinformation. Crawford, who worked on the Burke campaign in Guelph, said he overheard a conversation between Sona and another campaign worker about "how the Americans do politics," but didn't think Sona was serious.

Given the historic amounts of fraud, cronyism, bribery, and other such bullshiat that comes from the Liberal provincial and federal parties, I would absolutely expect to hear it in one of their strategy conversations.

Over the years, I've learned that although I ultimately want the centrist party to lead the government, they're all dirty thieves and liars.

i think its time to give the ndp their chance to fark up as the government

A few provinces mistakenly have voted in NDP as their ruling party. Ask them how it went....

hold on, every major party had made a mess of provincesNDP, PC, LPC.. so whats your point?

ontariolightning:hold on, every major party had made a mess of provincesNDP, PC, LPC.. so whats your point?

It really is a question of what flavour of shiat sandwich we want to eat.

I actually care more about the cabinet appointments than the legislative body, to be honest, myself. But we can't vote on that. Mostly because I generally trust the legislative body itself to be self-correcting and largely moderate. Current federal scandals and ridiculousness aside, things will change back just as back as Harper's government changed them, I'm fairly certain.

starsrift:ontariolightning: hold on, every major party had made a mess of provincesNDP, PC, LPC.. so whats your point?

It really is a question of what flavour of shiat sandwich we want to eat.

I actually care more about the cabinet appointments than the legislative body, to be honest, myself. But we can't vote on that. Mostly because I generally trust the legislative body itself to be self-correcting and largely moderate. Current federal scandals and ridiculousness aside, things will change back just as back as Harper's government changed them, I'm fairly certain.

I only trust the courts now. They make the right rulings most of the times and on issues that politicians won't touch. They'll also give Harper a rough time with a few of his dumb on crime policies

I'm still surprised that so many Canadians still think voting for the Liberals or the Conservatives at the federal level is still a reasonable decision. Heck, I don't understand why everybody doesn't all just vote green so we can get this over with and see if EVERY party is corrupt. Then, once we know for sure that we're doomed, let's all go back to playing video games.

Harper is a failure.. he acknowledged the war on drugs is not workingbut he just passed mandatory sentences for people caught with 6 marijuana plantsAs the leader of a country what kind of message does that send?Incompetence! its not being a leader thats for sure

Macphearsome:I'm still surprised that so many Canadians still think voting for the Liberals or the Conservatives at the federal level is still a reasonable decision. Heck, I don't understand why everybody doesn't all just vote green so we can get this over with and see if EVERY party is corrupt. Then, once we know for sure that we're doomed, let's all go back to playing video games.

The leader of the Green Party is American & icky lookingcan't they find someone more appealing?

Macphearsome:I'm still surprised that so many Canadians still think voting for the Liberals or the Conservatives at the federal level is still a reasonable decision. Heck, I don't understand why everybody doesn't all just vote green so we can get this over with and see if EVERY party is corrupt. Then, once we know for sure that we're doomed, let's all go back to playing video games.

The Greens are loons. I mean some of them have some good points, sure, but mixed in are the crystal healing types, magic energies, and other California import woo nuttery. As a whole, there's no way I could believe they could run a halfway functional government. It's like Harper's Conservatives have some embarassing racists and provincial, backwards asshats, but there's enough rationality throughout the party to mitigate those wackjobs. The Greens don't have the numbers of rationalists to mitigate their wackjobs.

starsrift:The Greens are loons. I mean some of them have some good points, sure, but mixed in are the crystal healing types, magic energies, and other California import woo nuttery. As a whole, there's no way I could believe they could run a halfway functional government. It's like Harper's Conservatives have some embarassing racists and provincial, backwards asshats, but there's enough rationality throughout the party to mitigate those wackjobs. The Greens don't have the numbers of rationalists to mitigate their wackjobs.

No, business as usual is the loony bin. Keep voting for the status quo and see how that helps us.

starsrift:Given the historic amounts of fraud, cronyism, bribery, and other such bullshiat that comes from the Liberal provincial and federal parties, I would absolutely expect to hear it in one of their strategy conversations.

The provincial and federal liberals are separate parties. ie the BC Liberals? Not federal Liberals. Parti Libéral du Québec? Closer to Tories. Ontario Liberals? Similar to the Liberal Party of Canada but still a separate political party. Totally different party structures and memberships.

In any case, I was involved in Liberal politics for a while and no. You'd be surprised at how idealistic most Liberals are, particularly around elections and campaigns. They don't think they need to steal elections because they're the natural governing party, and once Canadians realize how brilliant and forward-looking their policies and ideas are, they will barely even need to campaign, the votes and adulation will just pour on in. They save the dirty tricks for infighting within the party and destroying themselves from the inside. They're adorable that way. There's a second element - the Liberals are desperate to get rid of the taint of corruption that existed in the Québec wing of the party. Which is, to be fair to the Liberals, something that is endemic in Québec politics across the ideological spectrum. Just take a look at the Mulroney era, the current Conservative era, and Jean Charest's desperate (failed) attempt to not go ahead with an inquiry into widespread corruption in the construction industry in the province...

Of course, the NDP actually stole charity money to fund a campaign. Bingogate brought down BC Premier Mike Harcourt, although he wasn't involved, but he's an honourable guy and resigned. Not sure about any other direct election fraud-related activities at the provincial level for various NDPs. I'm sure BC has the most scandalous NDP though, along with the most scandalous politics generally outside of a Mulroney cabinet.

According to a friend of mine that still lives in Guelph: this Sona kid used to write for the university student paper, and apparently the articles he wrote espousing his conservative viewpoint frequently aggravated the abundant left-wing feminist hippie-types that populate the campus (not that it's particularly difficult to rile these groups up).

I find it quite hilarious (and am not at all surprised) that the party whose cock he has been slobbering on for years tossed him under the bus without a second thought.

ontariolightning:starsrift: bobbette: This is a conversation you'd never hear between a local campaign and the war room in the Liberal Party or the NDP (or if it did happen, someone would get their ass booted out of the campaign.)McBain was working in the party's central war room for the campaign and says Sona contacted him to suggest a campaign of disinformation. Crawford, who worked on the Burke campaign in Guelph, said he overheard a conversation between Sona and another campaign worker about "how the Americans do politics," but didn't think Sona was serious.

Given the historic amounts of fraud, cronyism, bribery, and other such bullshiat that comes from the Liberal provincial and federal parties, I would absolutely expect to hear it in one of their strategy conversations.

Over the years, I've learned that although I ultimately want the centrist party to lead the government, they're all dirty thieves and liars.

i think its time to give the ndp their chance to fark up as the government

Oh fark no. I dread the day that BC gives the NDP another chance to screw us over.

Macphearsome:I'm still surprised that so many Canadians still think voting for the Liberals or the Conservatives at the federal level is still a reasonable decision. Heck, I don't understand why everybody doesn't all just vote green so we can get this over with and see if EVERY party is corrupt. Then, once we know for sure that we're doomed, let's all go back to playing video games.

Yeah, I'm sure I'm going to vote for the lady who tried to get wifi signals classified as a carcinogen, that seems like a sane choice.

change1211:Oh fark no. I dread the day that BC gives the NDP another chance to screw us over.

Christy Clark has been terrible and she's farked because all the crazy SocredReformers are fleeing the camp. Adrian Dix will be a better Premier, I hope. I can't bring myself to vote BC Liberal, so NDP it is.

bobbette:starsrift: Given the historic amounts of fraud, cronyism, bribery, and other such bullshiat that comes from the Liberal provincial and federal parties, I would absolutely expect to hear it in one of their strategy conversations.

The provincial and federal liberals are separate parties...

Well, that's why I mentioned "provincial and federal". The amount of corruption at both levels of the Liberal parties seems to be systemic, or what they call in the private sector, "endemic to the corporate culture". Most notably for the Feds, the BC'ers, and the Quebecois liberal parties. But when looking at the other flavors of the aforementioned shiat sandwich... It's not that huge of a minus.I'd like to think the NDP can do well, federally speaking, though some of their members need some age and experience.

In any case, I was involved in Liberal politics for a while and no. You'd be surprised at how idealistic most Liberals are, particularly around elections and campaigns. They don't think they need to steal elections because they're the natural governing party, and once Canadians realize how brilliant and forward-looking their policies and ideas are, they will barely even need to campaign, the votes and adulation will just pour on in. They save the dirty tricks for infighting within the party and destroying themselves from the inside. They're adorable that way.