On Friday, Playboy’s double issue for July and August hits stands and in it there’s an interview with actor Gary Oldman, who stars in Dawn of the Planet of the Apes, which opens nationwide on July 11. You’ve probably already seen plenty of ads and clips for Dawn, but I’ve got a pretty good feeling that people are going to be talking about it a lot more now that the Oldman interview is already available on Playboy’s website (NSFW, naturally). In fact, people have been jumping all over some specific comments that Oldman made regarding the major missteps of actors like Mel Gibson and Alec Baldwin, who aren’t exactly the most popular guys at Hollywood parties these days.

The reason that people have been freaking out about this interview today is because Oldman apparently not only thinks we should forgive and forget with guys like Gibson and Baldwin, but we’re simply becoming way too politically correct for our own good. It wasn’t the main focus of the interview, but when you start dropping N- and F-bombs, people tend to take notice. The whole interview is bizarre and sprinkled with batshittery, but that’s what we’ve come to expect from a 56-year old who has been married four times and evidently cares way too much what his peers think about his work.

Oldman spent the first chunk of the interview dumping all over his own career, as he said that he “doesn’t like” himself in Sid & Nancy and his reaction to being asked about Fifth Element made me really sad. I can’t even imagine how many pieces my heart would shatter into if he said he hated True Romance. Fortunately, he eventually addressed it and said, “It’s a nice little turn.” I’ll take it! He basically called Chris Nolan’s Batman franchise a paycheck, but he’s at least pretending like Dawn of the Planet of the Apes isn’t. But after everything he said in the opening of this interview, I’ll assume that he’s being nice for the sake of a contract.

The real fun began when Oldman was asked his thoughts on the future of the world – he thinks we’re doomed – and he starting pointing fingers at where we’ve gone wrong.

OLDMAN: It’s like the old saying about mediocrity: The mediocre are always at their best. They never let you down. Reality TV to me is the museum of social decay. And what passes for music—it’s all on that plateau. Who’s the hero for young people today? Some idiot who can’t f*cking sing or write or who’s shaking her ass and twerking in front of 11-year-olds.

My only complaint is that there’s no video of him saying twerking. Eventually the interview got into Hollywood politics and politics in general, and that’s when Oldman was asked what he would do if he had “f*ck you money.” He talked about how he’d just move into a gated property and lock the gates, because just getting a film financed has become so difficult. He added, “I can understand why someone like Mel, for instance, would finance his own movies now, because it has all become so crazy.” And then the gates get blown off their hinges.

PLAYBOY: Mel Gibson?

OLDMAN: Yeah.

PLAYBOY: What do you think about what he’s gone through these past few years?

OLDMAN: [Fidgets in his seat] I just think political correctness is crap. That’s what I think about it. I think it’s like, take a f*cking joke. Get over it. I heard about a science teacher who was teaching that God made the earth and God made everything and that if you believe anything else you’re stupid. A Buddhist kid in the class got very upset about this, so the parents went in and are suing the school! The school is changing its curriculum! I thought, All right, go to the school and complain about it and then that’s the end of it. But they’re going to sue! No one can take a joke anymore.

I don’t know about Mel. He got drunk and said a few things, but we’ve all said those things. We’re all f*cking hypocrites. That’s what I think about it. The policeman who arrested him has never used the word n*gger or that f*cking Jew? I’m being brutally honest here. It’s the hypocrisy of it that drives me crazy. Or maybe I should strike that and say “the N word” and “the F word,” though there are two F words now.

PLAYBOY: The three-letter one?

OLDMAN: Alec calling someone an F-A-G in the street while he’s pissed off coming out of his building because they won’t leave him alone. I don’t blame him. So they persecute. Mel Gibson is in a town that’s run by Jews and he said the wrong thing because he’s actually bitten the hand that I guess has fed him—and doesn’t need to feed him anymore because he’s got enough dough. He’s like an outcast, a leper, you know? But some Jewish guy in his office somewhere hasn’t turned and said, “That f*cking kraut” or “F*ck those Germans,” whatever it is? We all hide and try to be so politically correct. That’s what gets me. It’s just the sheer hypocrisy of everyone, that we all stand on this thing going, “Isn’t that shocking?” [smiles wryly] All right. Shall I stop talking now? What else can we discuss?

PLAYBOY: What do you think of the pope?

OLDMAN: Oh, f*ck the pope! [laughs and puts head in hands] So this interview has gone very badly. You have to edit and cut half of what I’ve said, because it’s going to make me sound like a bigot.

From there, Oldman offered his thoughts on politics, and they were surprisingly tamer than his opinions on the way people judge specific terms of hate. Either way, it’s bound to have people talking about and judging Oldman, and his PR reps’ phones are already ringing.

So it’s ok to be hateful, bigoted, and politically incorrect towards Germans if you’re Jewish in 2014, , because someone in your lineage might have endured pain and suffering several generations removed from your pampered 21st century American life. So even political correctness has it’s exceptions. You just have to be born into the right race/family/religion. Nice.

What the F are you guys talking about. The Jew card? “someone in your lineage?” You realize there are people alive in this world today who survived concentration camps, right?

Saying “f*cking Germans” is not the same as Mel “Beaver Hand” Gibson blaming a secret Jewish cabal for war and controlling the world. And yes, obviously bigotry in all its forms is bad, and I don’t think anyone should say “f*cking [PEOPLE] about anyone.

My point is that Jewish people STILL suffer awful prejudices and bigotry every day. Germans typically don’t. Given the context of widespread anti-semitism it’s more harmful when nazi rhetoric gets passed off as a joke, than when German people get their feelings hurt because someone is sore that their parents committed genocide. It’s the same reason we can say “cracker” but not the other word.

@GoodListener69 – actually the reason World War II even happened in the first place is the hate that Germany faced after World War I. Their economy was completely destroyed by the “winning nations”, France in particular with the rules set out in the Treaty of Versailles to the point that people like Hitler were allowed to take over with the idea of nationalist pride. Further, most Germans were vilified (rightfully so) during & after the war.

The point is, everyone is racist or bigoted in some way. We’re humans, we classify things, people, etc. into groups to better understand them. It’s literally human nature. That being said, when you start censoring words, you set a scary precedent that can lead to a world in which arbitrary things can be banned; things you’d never had deemed “bad” or “immoral”, etc. AND, it seems there are rules as to who is allowed to be offended, and generally white, christian people are NOT one of them. Which is unfair, because there are plenty of stereotypical attacks made on these people and they are not even allowed to defend themselves. And let’s not get into an argument about pasts; if the point is for everyone to live equally in this world, then there’s no point to punishing groups for their ancestor’s behavior. We’re supposed to be rising above all that.

@Ray Peterson Are you trying to imply the harshness of the Treaty of Versailles was due to the Jews? I earnestly cannot tell.

Your second paragraph is basically stammering. No one has banned those words, just it can be in poor taste and hurtful to use them. It’s not about you.

It never was about you. That’s the point. It’s about not being a dick to someone who might have it shitty because of historical context or whatever reason. It’s about not reminding them of what they probably already have to deal with. But above all, it’s not about you. No one sane is trying to ban these words, and if they are, they’ve missed the fucking point, they’re trying to be politically correct because they heard they shouldn’t be without thinking why. The point is not to be a dick. And if you are being a dick, at the very least, be entertaining. Humor/satire can be an exception, but that’s tempered with how good the joke is and how self aware you are.

@JJ Jr. I am responding since you deserve the answer, but long ago I’ve found that its pointless to argue with someone who sees the holocaust not only as the defining feature of ww2 but also as the single worst thing to ever have happened to any group of people on this planet.

@GoodListener69 do you know the national shame that faces Germany due to what 2 generations ago did? Obviously shame and the genocide of 6 million people are not equal in a way, nevertheless to say that your suffering can be used as some sort of top trump in this game of life and that in allows you to say oh you stupid nazi or worse. Just because you are jewish it does not entitle you to immunity, in the sense that you can say what ever the fuck you want because your relatives were killed.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not advocating anti-semitism, I am saying that You are full of shit and seemingly a turd of a human being who claims to never have heard of the jew card, regardless. Be more sympathetic to other people who aren’t jewish.

@VladimirA First off, I’m not Jewish. None of my relatives were killed by Nazis, and I am not a victim of anti-semitism. So stop projecting, Himmler.

In fact, I was born and raised in Germany, so I know very well the “national shame” you speak of. In fact, I would argue that the Germans do a much better job of addressing and combating its history of anti-semitism than many other countries.

All I did was bring up the fact that anti-semitism is pretty fucked up, and it’s everywhere, so let’s not try and make it ok by saying its a “joke” or by saying that people can have bigoted opinions toward other ethnic groups because “everybody does it”. It’s not the same and you know it.

So now it sounds like what you’re saying is that because Gemans feel “national shame” (aka white tears) the Jews should just get over it, take a joke and “be more sympathetic” because they have the “top trump” in a game of sympathy blackjack. After all ( paraphrasing your words) the holocaust was “terrible,” but still not the “single worst thing to ever have happened to any group of people on this planet.” So it’s about time those damn heebs stopped being so verklemt about it, amirite?

If you’re German, I’m sorry I hurt your feelings by bringing up your “national shame.” I guess playing the Jew card means “mentioning the fact that anti-semitism exists and it’s a bad thing.”

Just kidding I’m not sorry you filthy nazi pig. Fuck off back to Stormfront where you belong.

@GoodListener69
From what I’ve observed of him, I think Vlad is of Russian descent (though he lives in England), so what he means about the Holocaust not being the defining part of WWII is probably that the 23 million Russians who died in the war never seem to count for anything against the 6 million Jews, gypsies, gays, etc. who died in the camps. Which is kind of fucked up. A couple of his ancestors were probably killed or harshly affected by the nazis as well. Not that that’s especially relevant to what you initially said… though it does make you look like an asshole for making that “you filthy nazi pig” remark. But there was way too much negativity in this conversation almost from the beginning for it to have ever been productive.

@VladimirA
I don’t think saying things like “the Jew card” (or any other such card) is likely to ever steer any conversation in a constructive direction.

@JJ Jr. “what I’ve observed of him” LOL. interesting way of putting it. Yes I am of Russian descent, but mainly armenian. I wasn’t just talking about the Russian’s who laid down their lives or the polish killed by the russians, or the german women raped by the red army, or the mentally disabled being wiped from germany families. (thats world war two alone) I mean in every other instance of genocide (Armenia, Sudan, Rwanda) or human tragedy, for some reason plays second fiddle. But in a more extreme way, as if those tragedies are not as serious (the Armenian Genocide, is still not a genocide. Even though the word genocide allegedly came into existence to describe what happened in 1915 at the hands of the Turkish empire). Just look at the vitriol that just came from his mouth and the horse shit argument he just constructed in his latest post.

My family wasn’t particularly affected by ww2, but all my ancestors were killed (apart from my great grandpa). I’m not mentioning this for sympathy or for some sort of moral highground. I’m just putting it into context. So when @GoodListener69 comes in here doing exactly what I thought he would do, then even attempts to say that he is german and not jewish, is pathetic, racist and ignorant.

In regards to the jew card. I’m not sure its entirely offence, I’ve heard that the word Jew is considered offence by Americans, but I can’t believe I am about to say this, but in England its not and I am friends with a lot of Jews. Haha. I think it also encapsulates what I mean with “jew card” so I don’t have to write it every time. Probably best not to say it in such a way though.

@VladimirA Well what can I say, you’re an interesting subject. Being a monosyllabic word, it sounds particularly nasty when said maliciously, and that sort of taints the word in general for some people (myself included).

You shouldn’t assume you know GL’s ethnicity any more than he should’ve assumed he knew yours.

Oh word. In my day, you could make a movie about how Jesusy you were and nobody would have a problem when you told your adulterous bastardmaker that she deserved to get raped by an ensemble of African Americans. But nowadays, everybody gets all mad and stuff.

we’ve either got a website full of hypocrites, or the only group of 100 people in the history of America that have never used stereotyping or any of the magic bad words that apparently act as mind bullets killing the innocence of the universe.

YOu’ve probably come close Buttockus, but we both know that’s not the point. Points are often made with extreme examples – that makes them effective. Moreover, in a stream of consciousness, you might actually lump in a really bad example. Maybe he should have said Alec Baldwin and Jonah Hill, and left Mel out of it.

His point remains valid, and he said nothing wrong… although may not have been as perfectly clear or eloquent as prepared words might have been.

I also feel like this post was cherry picking a little too much….too much emphasis on the PC part. The rest of it didnt read as the ravings of a crazy man. Hell, hes an actor. I guess theyre all a little unhinged in some fashion.

The problem with the political correctness movement is that it assumes that making sure people don’t say certain words will end racism and sexism. That’s like thinking mopping up spilled water will fix a leaky pipe.

The problem with this particular exchange is that it’s taking place on the internet, in text format, so all nuance of the English language, and the intended point is lost and it just sounds like two 3 year olds having a limp-wristed water balloon fight.

being called out for it is one thing. having your life ruined, sued out of existence, charges brought against you, etc. simply because you used the wrong word and the wrong time in a moment of weakness or anger is what is wrong wiht the Political Correctness movement, and this was Gary’s point. Not that he wants to be able to say bad things. But hat people shouldn’t be allowed to ruin your life because you insulted them once with words.

He has a point: the vocal minority always gets the soapbox. As Ricky Gervais said “just because you’re offended, doesn’t mean you’re right”. Celebrities have a big microscope on them and when they screw up everyone lines up to tell them what scum they are. But, and not to get religious, let the person with no sin cats the first stone. Unlikely that we as people have never said anything politically incorrect when we’re drunk or angry. Or even worse Drunk AND angry

@MK–I call somebody a fool and then Jesus says I’m in hell fire danger? Way to escalate. But hey, that was Jesus. One minute it’s bless the peacemakers, the next minute it’s throwing down with the moneychangers. Typical Jew.

I respect him a bit more. Sure it comes across as someone with some jet lag, but he’s it a point.
The world is so concerned with why we say and how we say it. The media looks to twist words around for controversy. Or movie are having to be called out for doing something they don’t like.

You’re a Gibson fan. I love him too. I looooove Gibson! He was Australian you know? But for this kind of work, he’s a little bit light. So I tend to go for the heavier guys. Check out Baldwin. He’s good too.

The only time I’ve ever used the word nigger was when I was watching something for adults and one of my kids walked in the room. I don’t even remember what it was we were watching, maybe Django or something. I gathered all the kids and I explained a little history and why they should never say the word nigger.

I’ve said “fucking jew” about a jew that was being an asshole. I’ve said “fucking faggot” about a gay man that was being an asshole. I think I said “fucking beaner” about a Mexican business owner who I was doing contract work for, and was being a complete asshole. I don’t think I’ve ever said kike or slant-eye or wop or … I can’t think of any others, because that was never part of my lexicon.

I graduated from high school in 1990. I haven’t said “fag”, “gay” or “retard” since before I got married 15 years ago. Those words were indeed part of my lexicon.

My point is, people who say “we all say that shit” should probably think a little more about what comes out of their mouths.

Mind you, I agree re: political correctness being more than a little overdone, but I don’t feel like the two points are mutually exclusive.

Gibson mouthed off about the Jews TO A JEWISH COP. He should be glad he lives in the age of PC because in days of yore, you smarted off to the police you got your cranium cracked. He didn’t even lose his license. And he said sugartits too.

@Buttockus Finch, Esq. Which is why I stated that I think political correctness may be a bit overdone, but is a separate issue from offensive stuff that comes out of the mouth of old people who are drunk and/or angry.

Mechakisc – while I won’t call you out, because I don’t know you. What I will say is this – even the 1 time in your whole life you’ve said any of the “really bad words” – if that one time was taped, and circulated the world over – replayed millions of times, day after day – people would probably think you were a shitty person. Maybe you are and maybe you aren’t, but I know that everyone has said A LOT of shit they probably regret or wouldn’t want broadcast to the world.

I think that was Gary’s point. Now, stop being such a fag about all this. It’s gay and retarded. Like religions.

ps. Fuck Mel Gibson though, because fuck him – he didn’t just say a bad word, he said what he thinks in full semi-coherent rants.

@Mech–I think you expressed your views really well and I agree with what you’re saying. I’m just emphasizing that people are talking about how Gibson has been victimized by the things he’s said, when in fact he’s avoided the consequences normal folk have to suffer.

I don’t think we’ve really “all said those things.” Anyway, I respect him for speaking his mind like this, but frankly, I don’t think we white males really get to tell anyone to “learn to take a joke.” Most of we crackers haven’t walked very far in the shoes of those who can’t “take a joke.”

Which isn’t to say I fully disagree with him about political correctness, but generally I think the concept has merit, even if it’s frequently overbearing. And the part where he says respect is really important to him seems at odds with the idea that it should be okay to call people fags and niggers and whatnot.

Whilst I hate all this “PC correctness gone mad” argument, its in the same vain as ‘merica and they took our guns and vote UKIP. The only people i’ve really seen argue it are either retarded or full of shit.

JJ Jr. obviously I cannot speak on your behalf, but I’ve have used most of those words, admittedly, never in a derogatory way, but still i don’t think that it’s particularly relevant. Ari Gold or what ever that guys name is blacklisted Mel for his anti-semitism yet got away with both homophobic and sexist remarks. I guess that’s one fucking arrogant kyke for you.

In a town run by jews you probably should pick your words with more care.

Or maybe you should read the whole article, instead of just the quoted line to see if you get a better understanding… or maybe realize that he was probably just having a stream of conciousness mouth-vomit during his 19th straight hour of interviews and he shared the beginning of an idea that wasn’t completely flushed out yet.

I don’t know, maybe we just shouldn’t flip out any time someone suggests we think about things instead of just angrily reacting like a mob with pitchforks and torches. maybe…

@AB: Assuming you’re talking to me… did you really read my comment as “flipping out” or imagine me wielding a pitchfork and torch? I was quite calm when I typed that. I barely cared enough to even comment. You may be the one who’s flipping out here, in defense of Mr. Oldman. And I did read the whole interview. That’s why I mentioned the part where he talked about respect, which isn’t mentioned in this post.

@VladimirA: I definitely have said and written my share of racial slurs, but I think it’s always been while quoting/paraphrasing someone, discussing the words themselves, or writing dialogue. But I don’t think we’ve said the things that Mel Gibson said, as in, the full, furious sentences, or the general sentiments he expressed towards other people. Ari Gold, haha, the guy from Entourage? I didn’t know he had that kind of power.

Based on a real guy, Yeah obviously what Mel did was a lot worse, but I know that we might joke (and even that is subjective, judging by the amount of butt hurt people in this world waiting to jump on the latest outrage) but the way he was taken apart by the powers that be in hollywood, yet we have molesters (that jew director who’s name slips my mind now. Allen something, wife beaters (Sean Penn) and a plethora of many more shameless pieces of shit getting work. Is what I think Oldman was trying to say in his half cooked ramble, much like this one.

Alleged molesters, in Woody Allen’s case. Roman Polanski would be a better example. Good point about Penn. Maybe Robin Wright’s repeated forgiveness was what kept him from acquiring a stigma. Then again, I don’t think Charlie Sheen’s exes really forgave him for his shitty behavior and he still does pretty well for himself. And then there’s Chris Brown. I guess Hollywood is a pretty forgiving place. Which does make Racist-ass Mellie Gibsons’s case seem peculiar.

I can’t think of anyone else who’s been “taken apart” to the degree that Gibson apparently was (there probably are some examples, but I can’t think of ’em). Alec Baldwin’s said and done some pretty shitty, non-PC stuff, but he still gets tons of work. So was it solely the antisemitism that got Gibson in trouble? Surely he can’t be the only person who’s said those kinds of things. Oldman posits that, in fact, everyone has, in which case it seems like more than one should’ve been caught on tape by now. So maybe Gibson’s ostracism, while initially spurred by the antisemitic stuff, was perhaps exacerbated by him, say, simply being a plain ol’ asshole about it, or not trying hard enough to get past it?

I’ll tell you one thing, regardless of what people like to say, Hollywood is run by the semites, I’m not saying that as a bad thing. Good hustle is good hustle, I just wish it could have been the Armenians or someone like that, but It was all good and well when he was calling his wife and threatening to kill her. (in the sense that it didn’t push him out the inner circle) but as soon as he made the jew comments, The agent Ari Gold is based on comes out and says if any of my clients work with Mel Gibson i will drop them and they will never find work in this town again.

This is a guy who is worse than the character that portrays him on TV, like sexist and homophobic worse.

Whilst it may seem like I’m defending gibson, I’m not. The guy was a massive piece of shit and I think what happened to him is his own doing. However I am commenting on the fact that certain things will get you in trouble, but the one thing that is cracked down upon is anti-semitism. Take from that what you will.

Sir Phobos – I hate to ever side with Underbra (who I hope dies in a fire) in any regard, but you sir are a liar. I’ve heard you say those evil words that make jesus cry. You’ve said them. You’ve lauged at them. You’ve enjoyed using them.

@Underball: I’ve thought about PC quite a bit over the last 20 years. As I went to college, the “diversity” movement was being foisted upon the liberal arts scene and my college campus, a small Pennsylvania college, was being hit hard by all the professors who swung far left of the middle, and some even far left of the left. My prevailing thought which I shared freely was that diversity means a whole hell of a lot more than skin color or gender. Yet, because I was a “white male” we were all clumped in as a singular voice and told in essence that our thoughts weren’t as profound and our experiences didn’t matter. Anytime I would spout any conservative beliefs, I was shouted down. I was called every “ist” and told I had every “ism” in the book. And quite frankly, my favorite quote to all of this was Martin Luther King’s “judge a man by the content of his character not the color of his skin.” To me, no one really wanted diversity, they just wanted to put as many races in the same liberal tent at one time as possible and fight against whomever they thought at the time was the “man.”

I went to DC on a study-exchange program and within one week, I was told by an African American that she doesn’t self-identify with “black” but with being “African American.” I was fine by that. Call yourself what you want, and I will respect you enough to do the same. Then I was told by another African American that she doesn’t self-identify with being “African American” but with being “Nubian American.” Again, whatever floats your boat, but certainly I was trying to figure racial identity/racial politics and was coming up blank.

Then it hit me. It’s not about PC but it’s about power. Consider amorphous “power” being a pie chart and we are all a piece of this pie. There is an actual pie chart (which no one really knows about – as Kip said to Napoleon in Napoleon Dynamite “like anyone could ever possibly know that”) and the perceived pie chart. We are all fighting for a piece of that pie and we self-identify with all manners of groups in order to get as much as that pie as possible. If it benefits me to identify with female agnostic African Americans who are pro-life, I am going to do it. We all do it, consciously or subconsciously.

Where does PC come in? It’s a tool to reduce the power of a class or classes you do not identify with. If I want to grab power from a group, I marginalize it or its membership. I use the “ists” and “isms” to pull at their perception of self-identity. For the last decade, conservatives have been attacked mercilessly by popular culture. Every form of satire has been used to marginalize. And conservatives have sure helped produce the satire. But those Republicans that we make fun of, call stupid, bait into making ridiculous statements and then feign shock when they actually do, are really no better or worse than the Democrats in power. It’s a great game really. Let’s divide the masses into two groups and it will make it easier for the ruling class to manage them. Let them attack one another and meanwhile all 435 members of congress leave office as millionaires somehow. They’ll never notice because some 19 year old girl will hump a bear on MTV, and maybe this year sport team X will win a title which will provide some cover for us.

The more we make language forbidden, the more it causes the divide. The “f” word, the “n” word, the “r” word, the “g” word. So I can’t use the word “retarded” any more to identify with something or someone that I perceive as stupid. Ok, well the word means more than “mentally disabled.” So, I am going to continue to use the word whether it offends you or not. When a homosexual male decides to dress in a Miley Cyrus outfit and march in a parade down the middle of the street saying and making all sorts of sexually-explicit words and gestures, how can that person demand that I accept that lifestyle? You can’t tell me that the person isn’t looking to offend and at the same time is looking to be offended. It’s the victim mentality that is the effect of PC. And if you can’t beat them into submission, then you sue them. And if you can’t sue them, you elect politicians to write laws to make them illegal. It’s all about the accumulation of power and once you understand what it is, it is fairly easy to disregard those voices in the wilderness and move on with your life and the lives of your family and friends.

Finally, everyone has the right to be an asshole. The more that we try to keep these assholes from being assholes and saying asshole things, the more time it will take to discover that these assholes are real assholes. And I am completely against anything that makes me have to deal with assholes any longer than I actually have to.

Yeah, Darthbile, we’re not on the same page here. I’m all for easing up on the political correctness in favor of honesty and personal merit – but racism definitely still exists and is still a major societal woe in this country. and it comes directly from the White Establishment. Maybe not you, or your family/friends, but it’s still quite pervasive. It’s as if the powers taht be have decided that since blacks can drink at the water fountain, and ride at the front of the bus, everything is now hunky-dory, and “they” should all just be content with service industry jobs and menial lives. The opportunities for minorities are still very limited in professional work environments.

Furthermore, Republicans are the dumbest people on the planet because they push a mindless creationist/anti-abortion/anti-education/anti-science/”pull yourselves up by your bootstraps” agenda that is both insultingly ignorant and pathetic.

I never said it doesn’t exist, Underball, but if you look at the roots of racism I think it’s less “I hate people of x origin” and more “I don’t want x origin having more than me.” It takes on different forms, to be sure.

I will respectfully disagree with you about Republicans being the dumbest people. Don’t lump all Republicans with the Westboro Baptist crowd.

@DarthBile – what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

seriously though, you sound like a pretty rigidly programmed, condescending, GOP think tanker, that makes up the most obviously fake stories I’ve read outside of the bible. Have fun thinking you’re right , while deep down knowing how mentally fucking unhinged you are deep down. That break is going to be severe when it happens, I just hope I’m not around to see, and that you don’t own guns.

And I could throw out a dozen wingnut Democrats too…and we can point fingers at one another and call each other names…what purpose does it serve? They are all protecting their little fiefdoms and making millions in the process. If you think that Nancy Pelosi is any better a human being than John Boehner, or Harry Reid than Rand Paul, then we can figuratively shake hands and agree to disagree.

@AB I WISH I was that good at making up stories or I’d be in Hollywood. And I DO own guns! DUN DUN DUN! Just one, safely in a gun locker thank you very much.

You went on a Multi-paragraph screed about how hypocritical the “libs” and “Dems” are already, two posts ago. You can’t have your hyper-emotional rhetoric-fueled cake and eat it too. If you really don’t want to argue about politics, don’t make overlong, meandering, pointless posts laying out your politics.

Btw everyone arguing against Darthbile have literally made his point. While he presented a coherent, well-thought out, and in no way insulting argument, everyone who has disagreed with him has done so in a condescending, insulting manner. Rule #1 of debate guys – when you start attacking the person’s character, beliefs, etc. you’ve completely lost the argument as it is the weakest stance to take. PLUS, aren’t all of you for the freedom of expression? Aren’t you all for the open-mindedness of accepting people as they are and not ostracizing them based on their beliefs or proclivities? Your comments in response to Darthbile reveal hypocrisy on that front.

This in infuriating to read. The whole point of what Darthbile said was that the government PURPOSELY pins us against each other so we don’t become privy to the REAL issues in this country: i.e. the fact that it isn’t Republicans vs. Democrats, its POLITICIANS VS. CIVILIANS. Do you really think that your Democratic representative gives a crap about you and your interests? And on the same token, Republican representatives for their Republican constituents? NO. Why would they? They literally have lives COMPLETELY SEPARATE from our own. They don’t pay taxes, they receive the BEST medical care in the world, and they have no term limits on their positions.

And what makes those who blindly follow Republicans different from those who blindly follow Democrats? Darthbile provided facts, and you just told him he was wrong and made some reference to abstract information. Do you not see that that screams the same blind reference that you accuse Republicans of? What a lot of people fail to understand in this country is that just because someone speaks out against Democrats does not make them a Republican follower and vice versa. Stop ARGUING with each other and work towards something better. My friend, who by all accounts seems to have completely different political views from me, and I recently realized that we WANT THE SAME THINGS and have the SAME GRIPES with our government. But we’re all too busy fighting over who has the better political allegiance that we lose sight of this fact. We all want an America where people can have the opportunity (if they so choose) to have a better life. We don’t want poverty, shitty jobs, or people unable to take care of themselves. Why can’t we all get on that agenda?

Democrats don’t want to force anyone who is an otherwise upstanding, productive member of society to immediately return to their birth country, just because they didn’t hit the birth/skin color lottery.

Democrats don’t want to reward businesses who sell their manufacturing jobs and customer service positions to the lowest foreign bidder.

No, Ray. We DO NOT want the same things. The things you want benefit you, and you alone. The things democrats want, benefit everyone.

@Ray Peterson – Darthbile’s rant was verbose, ludicrous, untrue, and trite. None of those things happened, and none of those people exist. I know this because I’m not a retarded 5 year old who buys in to the email forwards sent by the tea party. Now put on your tinfoil hat and go back to talking about how 9/11 was a conspiracy by the govt.

What consipiracy crazies don’t get is how hard it is to actually conspire and not have someone break ranks. It’s literally impossible in a long enough timeline.

I do kind if love how supportive of the movie “Dear White People” this site is, as it blatently promotes stereotypes and uses them as a punch line, but Gary Oldman does the same thing and he’s apparently Mabus. (Yes, that is a Nostradamus reference for those if you who were still able to read past the first line)

Not sure I get the reference, but if your perception is that we’re reacting negatively to this, you’re being way oversensitive. Most of these comments are expressing approval of what Gary said, being neutral (as the article is), or at worst, mildly disagreeing (as I am).

Is it really the same thing? Actual jokes (haven’t seen the movie) vs. telling people that Mel Gibson calling a Jewish cop a “fucking jew” (or whatever he said, I really didn’t pay that much attention) is a joke?

I thought Burnsy had mostly refrained from commenting on Oldman’s rant, aside from that it was a “de-hinger of gates,” but I had missed that sentence where he called it batshittery. So I retract that initial reply.

Wikipedia told me that much about Mabus, but I still wasn’t sure if that was supposed to be synonymous with “the devil” or “the worst person ever,” or if you meant something more complex, having made such a specific allusion.

@Mechakisc – I think everyone in here, including Burnsy in his original article, is completely misreading the whole “take a fucking joke” angle of his comments. It’s as if you all read that he thought all of these people were just “joking” when they said regrettable things. I took what he said as “there are too many people who can’t take a joke anymore” re: political correctness, PERIOD, – but that really was an entirely separate comment from what he said about Alec and Mel, where he was pointing out that both of them said admittedly terrible things in anger, and everyone does that, so we’re all hypocrites.

Two independent thoughts.

But yeah – it much easier to lump it all into one conglomerated statement because it all happened in the same conversation, so it makes it easier to dismiss him because you want to ignore the nuance of what he said.

I always find it quite funny how people who run round commenting on the internet, patting themselves on the back for being so un-bigoted and politically correct, tend to also be some of the most near-sighted, judgmental people on the planet. You’re not bigoted for thinking less of Gary Oldman (i.e. thinking he’s stupid, or stupider than you), because you think you’re smarter for bragging about being less bigoted than he, because you don’t use naughty words.

Also saying that teaching creationism is a joke. C’mon guys, raising our kids to be the biggest morons ever is the funniest of gags, but twerking and having pop singers (because we are the first generation to ever do so) is a sign of moral decay.

I hate it when I lose respect for people I liked and also when someone tries to argue a position I agree with by using the most retarded logic ever. He should have just left it at Hypocrite, but he had to keep going.

Goddamit, you guys are doing it again. DO NOT. i repeat. DO NOT. be so simpleminded as to set yourselves up to look worse than Wunderbra and maybe him seem like he has a cogent point. I fucking hate that.

ps. Inanimate – how did he “probably display some underlying bigotry” and maybe ease up on the judging… it doesn’t suit you since your kinda stupid.

I’m not sure about them being two independent thoughts. He made the “no one can take a joke anymore” remark in response to a question specifically asking him what he thought about Mel Gibson. He was talking about Mel in his two previous answers, then said this thing about teaching creationism, and then talked about Mel some more. I don’t think it’s reasonable to take the “joke” statement as completely independent from the subject matter surrounding it on both sides. And since he’s referring to the teaching of creationism as “a joke,” I don’t think it’s crazy or foolish to believe he’d refer to a racist tirade as “a joke” as well. Not saying that he definitely was, but it isn’t dumb or unreasonable to read it that way.

As for the were all hypocrites bit, he’s dead on. Everyone, whether as a frequent character flaw, or in a scant moment of weakness, has uttered terrible, insulting things out of anger. Anyone who claims they haven’t is a liar. And for the potential miniscule amount of people who never have – they haven’t lived much of a life if they keep all that bottled up inside.

Everyone fucks up. Everyone has flaws. It’s not their existence that defines you. It’s knowing you have them and consciously trying to be a better person that makes you a better person. Not lying about it or trying to mask it with self righteous bullshit.

The Mighty Feklahr isn’t normally ‘conspiracy prone’ (except for the robot apocalypse), but he does feel that people that like to chase down and faux-crucify individuals for saying forshak like nigger, kike, Rommie, fag, cunt, stupid bitch, spoon head, wop, wetback, spic, or ANY of the other wonderful words that society (not Him) has created over the years are walking on THIN FUCKING ICE in regards to free speech. The Mighty Feklahr isn’t too dang inclined having PC Harpies flapping over His head waiting for Him to commit a fucking “thought crime”.

In short, if I call a black guy a “nigger” it neither means it’s true nor that he is a less of a person for MY 6 letter word. People can fire the term ‘fatass’ at me until they are blue in the face, and all it does is waste THEIR time. IF A SINGLE WORD HURTS YOU IT IS NOT SOCIETY’S PROBLEM, IT’S *YOURS*.

So racism and bigotry are cool if it is just a spoken word? And it is on the person that these words are spoken too, no matter the history of the words or the way in which they were used if they are offended, belittled, or otherwise feel the sting of persecution? Makes sense along with the equivalency of ‘fatass’ with the terms of slavery or genocide. So “free speech” applies to those using those terms, but not to those that call them out for it? Cool.

racism and bigorty aren’t “cool”. They are human. everyday, all day long, people use their internal discriminations to determine how to act, speak. Who to talk to. Who to avoid. What to eat, where to eat it, or not. etc. racism is definitely not cool. neither is murder, rape, robbery, etc. but people today make a bigger deal out of someone geting angry and saying a verboten word, but don’t bat an eyelash when some pampered rich kid steals his daddy’s gun and go blow away 15 people at their school.

“but people today make a bigger deal out of someone geting angry and saying a verboten word, but don’t bat an eyelash when some pampered rich kid steals his daddy’s gun and go blow away 15 people at their school.”

“people today make a bigger deal out of someone geting angry and saying a verboten word, but don’t bat an eyelash when some pampered rich kid steals his daddy’s gun and go blow away 15 people at their school.”

School shootings last 5 minutes on the front page of the news because they’ve become commonplace, but if Kim Whoredasian wears a tight dress to the Golden Globes, it’s the lead in story for 3 straight days.

Moose – I will try to contain my anger – but “free speech” does not fucking mean what you think it means. So, let’s just put that fucking baby to bed once and for all. This is not a free speech issue. People who “call people out” for shit are generally shitty people. Here for instance, you appear to be a genuinely shitty kind of asshole, for purposelessly ignoring the counterpoint, which I’m sure you get, in order to hop up on the holier than thou bandwagon.

Have fun on that ride, and just hold on tight for as long as you can, because everyone eventually gets tossed from that ride.

Moose-Even though I don’t know you in real life, we’ve seen each other around enough that I respect you. I will try to address your points honestly:

So racism and bigotry are cool if it is just a spoken word? And it is on the person that these words are spoken too, no matter the history of the words or the way in which they were used if they are offended, belittled, or otherwise feel the sting of persecution? Makes sense along with the equivalency of ‘fatass’ with the terms of slavery or genocide. So “free speech” applies to those using those terms, but not to those that call them out for it? Cool.

So racism and bigotry are cool if it is just a spoken word? – No, racism and bigotry is never “cool”. Boiling down the word ‘nigger’ to ‘n-word’ is fucking ridiculous and intellectually irresponsible, though. As a society, if we can’t fix or mend the hurt the word ‘nigger’ causes some people and end up making it taboo and giving it a cute nickname, it is a grand stage failure across the board. No one wins.

And it is on the person that these words are spoken too, no matter the history of the words or the way in which they were used if they are offended, belittled, or otherwise feel the sting of persecution? – You are damn right. In free speech there begets free open discourse. The listener has the same responsibilities and powers as the speaker. A speaker standing alone in a town square can scream epithets at the top of his or her lungs all day long, but they bear no true weight until someone in the audience chucks an egg at him/her and says, “Fuck you!” If an individual is truly frightened enough of the words that speaker is using, they have have an array of countermeasures to use that pull the plug on the “imaginary weight” the epithets spewed have. From asking them to stop to asking the police what the noise ordinance in that part of the city is. Hell, if they have the time, they can spend four hours doing point/counterpoint until one of them has to leave to pee.

So “free speech” applies to those using those terms, but not to those that call them out for it? – I hope my explanations have demonstrated that I do not think that is true.

I am going to end this with a personal story. Up until a few years ago (due to hospitalization and disability), I proudly worked for a minority owned business here in Iowa City. Not as common as many might hope. Not only were we a minority owned business, our employees (roughly 60 at the time) filled the range from male to female, minorities, immigrants, gay/lesbian, and transgendered individuals.

Every year we had a BIG summer picnic where everyone, their kids, and basically all of their family that felt like showing up would attend. It was almost an overload of well giving and bliss. No matter who was there, everyone felt like a cousin, an uncle, a sister. I watched three year olds in Spiderman boots grow up to start padding up and play pee wee football (and is now on the junior high team). Pretty neat, huh?

However, during the same time, the apartment housing my mother lived at started taking section 8 housing due to the massive overflow of individuals streaming in from Chicago where the waiting list to get Section 8 housing was at some ridiculous amount like 2 fucking years. Iowa City had enough empty spots (and creating more by the day) that were Section 8 compliant and the waiting time was…ZERO.

As time and fate hammered out, a large African American population arose and formed over 4-5 years around my mom who had been living there 20 years. There are now at least 4 shooting incidents where there had been none before. When I visited my mom, I would see the same black dudes sitting on the same place on the fucking stairs almost every time. They wore ‘large urban themed styles of clothes’ and had a large vernacular of ‘city slang’. I thought they were niggers. Why? Because I was afraid for my mom. Fear. Even though those men had done my mother no harm (luckily she hadn’t caught a stray bullet), I was afraid for her and when I saw those guys I thought they were niggers. I hated what their style represented, and I was afraid of what guys “like them” might do to my mom.

How the hell do I bridge the gap between summer picnic and Section 8 housing? I have no fucking idea.

Mega-short version: I am similar to the hypocrites Oldman refers to, and if there are people that have never felt the way I have at the old apartment complex I think we should start handing out Presidential Medals of Honour.

@AB; you are quite the debater; a whirlwind of astounding rhetoric. You must reread your posts because they are mesmerizing.

@Fek; I don’t necessarily disagree with most of your points, but I was playing the devil’s advocate, for that type of speech does have power when used by an oppressor, persecutor, or majority. An extreme example would be a southern sheriff using the term ‘nigger’ when hassling black people with the implied threats that go with it; it is a psychological tool that wears down those on the wrong end. In this example you can’t really do anything about it. Current bigotry is residual from those times of a more pronounced racism in hard practice (in the US anyway) and with that are still open wounds. Most of these people on either side commenting here are white males, including myself, and several are claiming victim-hood from the ever oppressive and powerful PC police, which is ridiculous. I don’t condone the public shaming of people, but the other side of the ‘free speech’ coin is that people are free to call them assholes for having that opinion (as you reiterated).

As to your personal experience; when your are face to face with that resentment and anger it is difficult to look at the root causes and historical context; we are visceral creatures. My similar experience was with the sons of Mexican immigrants in a more rural setting as a kid; not nearly as intense as yours, but when you get ganged up on it seems pretty real.

Oldman’s strong points about the hypocrisy of everyone, but in particular the self-centered, rich, attention whores that pervade politics and the entertainment industry suffered because he was a bit inarticulate in voicing them are getting lost.

All I’m advocating is tone down being an asshole to your fellow planet dwellers, which I never meant to imply you were. I appreciate your considered reply.

In closing, I felt that Oldman’s real honest point is that, as fallible humans, sometimes we have moments of weakness (or anger, or any spiked out pertinent emotion) and we might say or do things in the course of a 1 minute of dialog that we would never do with years of our life. I also feel that we need to be more honest about the fear-rooted causes of hate, and I feel Oldman was trying to describe the weakness and fear that maybe he has felt before and believes others have felt as well.

Yeah. I can’t hammer the guy too hard since he at least showed a hint of self-awareness and might have realized he’d just picked about every stupid anti-PC argument and example he could think of and used them all poorly.

I can think of good ways to criticize outrage culture, but this was just terrible.

This quote should have been the article: “I remember being at a dinner many years ago in New York with Arthur Miller. I was sitting next to him. After we loosened up with a few glasses of vino, I turned to him and said, “Do you ever walk down the street and just stop and go, ‘Fuck, I was married to Marilyn Monroe’?” He went, “Yeah.”

As a minority I can honestly we have all used language like this in some form or fashion. He has a point that we are hypocrites. I can understand him defending Alec Baldwin.

Mel on the other hand I don’t understand. He was hammered. For me the highlight of the Mel conversation was ” I deserved to be blown” not the pack of n word remark. Don’t we all feel that we deserved to be blown at some point in our lives ?

Everybody claiming that Mel’s words were treated like they were a crime forget that the actual criminal shit he did–driving 85 in a 45 zone with an open bottle of tequila, blowing a .12, resisting arrest AND threatening the cop–went unpunished. Shit was EXPUNGED. Legally, never happened.

I believe it was this site where I say the comment:
Mel: The Jews run Hollywood!
Everyone: Well good luck getting a job in this town, you racist, cause all the studios are owned by Jews!

But seriously, context is everything. So while most of us have used language as a joke (and certainly most have used “fag” as an insult), it’s hard to argue “pack of niggers” is said in jest. My personal beliefs hold that language isn’t as harmful as people believe. But there’s still a vehemence behind some usage that suggests things about people.

The tragedy is that the Jews don’t run everything–anymore. News Corp, Sony and Comcast have fucked everything up. Even Warner Bros. has a Japanese CEO. It’s cruel to make us pine for the good old days.

Hoping someone can help me out here. What’s the starting wage for someone looking to become professionally outraged? Is it a position where I can climb the ladder and I get more boring and less capable of understanding nuance or are there other goals I need to reach in order win that set of steak knives? Asking for a friend.

There is a dependent position that is very convenient; being outraged at the outraged. It can be part time or a career; work from home. No education required. Computer skills a plus. Don’t forget the persecution complex.

After reading the headline and seeing the number of comments i expected something a little more insane. But at worst this was mildly disagreeable and worded poorly. Although it is pretty awesome to see both sides dig in their trenches, jam in their earplugs and try to convince the other point of view by shouting.

I hate to say it but I miss being ignorant of people’s proclivities. I miss not knowing that Tom Selleck is a right-wing lunatic or that Tom Cruise believes in alien volcano Jesus or that Alec Baldwin is generally a prick at random.

You tell us to harden the fuck up but then get all bitchy when we murder people. Conundrum!

But we are the simply worst religious group. You know who doesn’t get offended by jokes and comments? Muslims. Seriously, I bet you would make a lot of friends in Kabul if you were cool enough to just speak your mind.