Originally posted by MrXYZ
evolution has been proven over an over again.

No it hasn't and you admit that whether you know it or not. Nothing that is "proven" needs to be proven again much less "over and over again.

The fact is, evolution really has not been proven the same way science is supposed to prove anything. out of all the best material you got for debates
on this subject, and I assume you have been in many, give me your best example of this alleged proof and will just see how it stands up to your own
"scientific method" . I am certain you'll look as foolish for believing in things that you imagine existed or more often than not these days, give
me something that is already proven a fraud or rife with just so story.

Don't worry, I am no scientist and I suck at debates so this should be easy for you

The guys who say evolution is wrong are still using "Christian science websites" to "debunk" evolution...that's why we get such gems as "if we
came from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?", or "we have lost all our body hair and would freeze and go extinct...but we didn't, so there's a
god".

Don't poison the well chap, and don't mis-represent me again or ill just put you on the ignore list. I never said "so there's a god" I was
using Darwinism's own criteria for extinction level events so your argument isn't with me, it's with evolutionary science. As for the monkeys. I
don't know where you can blame anyone for using the idea we came from monkeys as a religious persons common mistake when during the 60's that is how
it was taught by science. Until the conundrum of the 46 Chromosomes they came up with the usually un-named - un substantiated "common ancestor"
alibi

I'm sick and tired of having to educate the ignorant.

Is THAT what you think you're doing? Do you think it is wise to use such harsh criticism of an entire group of people then think you are going to
persuade anyone after you pretty much sized them up as retards for asking questions or making what YOU claim are false.

Evolution doesn't contradict their religion at all. It contradicts common sense and conventional wisdom not to mention the impossible idea that life
could have happened at all. Now I know that evolution doesn't go there talking about abiogenesis but that won't stop me from going there.

That misconception page has been through the ringer too, c'mon man just count the "probably' and "might have " "it is believed " etcs in those
pages

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
There are MANY who are Spiritual Atheists, lacking a belief in a deity, but believing in a spiritual realm
of some sort.

I love that post BH! A belief in a anthropomorphic creator of the universe does not insure anyone of leading what the rest of us would describe as a
"good" and "moral" life. I think it takes greater fortitude to live morally thinking there is no one in the invisible realm keeping score. Just my
(formerly practicing Roman Catholic/Christian but still leading much the same life without the guilt) opinion.

IF thou would’st hear the Nameless, and wilt dive
Into the Temple-cave of thine own self,
There, brooding by the central altar, thou
May’st haply learn the Nameless hath a voice,
By which thou wilt abide, if thou be wise,
As if thou knewest, tho’ thou canst not know;
For Knowledge is the swallow on the lake
That sees and stirs the surface-shadow there
But never yet hath dipt into the abysm,
The Abysm of all Abysms, beneath, within
The blue of sky and sea, the green of earth,
And in the million-millionth of a grain
Which cleft and cleft again for evermore,
And ever vanishing, never vanishes,
To me, my son, more mystic than myself,
Or even than the Nameless is to me.
And when thou sendest thy free soul thro’ heaven,
Nor understandest bound nor boundlessness,
Thou seest the Nameless of the hundred names.
And if the Nameless should withdraw from all
Thy frailty counts most real, all thy world
Might vanish like thy shadow in the dark.

‘And since—from when this earth began—
The Nameless never came
Among us, never spake with man,
And never named the Name’—

Thou canst not prove the Nameless, O my son,
Nor canst thou prove the world thou movest in,
Thou canst not prove that thou art body alone,
Nor canst thou prove that thou art spirit alone,
Nor canst thou prove that thou art both in one:
Thou canst not prove thou art immortal, no
Nor yet that thou art mortal—nay my son,
Thou canst not prove that I, who speak with thee,
Am not thyself in converse with thyself,
For nothing worthy proving can be proven,
Nor yet disproven: wherefore thou be wise,
Cleave ever to the sunnier side of doubt,
And cling to Faith beyond the forms of Faith
She reels not in the storm of warring words,
She brightens at the clash of ‘Yes’ and ‘No’,
She sees the Best that glimmers thro’ the Worst,
She feels the Sun is hid but for a night,
She spies the summer thro’ the winter bud,
She tastes the fruit before the blossom falls,
She hears the lark within the songless egg,
She finds the fountain where they wail’d ‘Mirage’!

Originally posted by randomname
he was depressed and sick because the devil was giving him deluded ideas about the creation of humanity to discredit God and mislead the masses. the
theory of evolution makes absolutely no sense and it has more holes in it than swiss cheese. his observation on the camouflage of certain moths to the
bark of trees actually prove the opposite, since the odds of a moth naturally evolving wings and a body that match a tree perfectly are about the same
odds as a soldier in iraq growing rocks and sand on his skin to blend in the desert.

And yet dark skinned people who have lived in sunny and warm areas of Earth for thousands of generations have evolved so much that they are dark
skinned from the birth, while the white people who live in colder and less sunny areas are still white.
All life on planet Earth adapts to it's surroundings and evolves through that.

Originally posted by Deuteronomy 23:13
I don't believe in evolution for the following reason. Evolution implies that a chicken can lay an egg and a duck will be born from it.

THIS is exactly why it's soooooooo tiring to argue with creationists. They are criticizing evolution but they don't even understand it

I mean, a chicken laying an egg and a duck pops out...ARE YOU FRIGGIN' SERIOUS??? If that's what you consider evolution, you obviously never made it
past highschool...and even there you probably had really really horrible grades

Well lets put it more to the point then shall we, because if evolution is true, you need a new mechanism to carry it today. I mean when it comes
down to it, you expect me to think we came from a rock. We have trilobites for petes sake that haven't changed an iota, every type of insect from
roaches to dragon flies millions and millions of years old , I'm talking every bug you see today we have seen in amber from that long ago and none
have changed a bit and none look like they are in any transition of becoming anything else.

Originally posted by randomname
he was depressed and sick because the devil was giving him deluded ideas about the creation of humanity to discredit God and mislead the masses. the
theory of evolution makes absolutely no sense and it has more holes in it than swiss cheese. his observation on the camouflage of certain moths to the
bark of trees actually prove the opposite, since the odds of a moth naturally evolving wings and a body that match a tree perfectly are about the same
odds as a soldier in iraq growing rocks and sand on his skin to blend in the desert.

And yet dark skinned people who have lived in sunny and warm areas of Earth for thousands of generations have evolved so much that they are dark
skinned from the birth, while the white people who live in colder and less sunny areas are still white.
All life on planet Earth adapts to it's surroundings and evolves through that.

This must be the reason Inuits have evolved fur or must explain why blacks can't handle being in the hot sun in states like Arizona any better than
whites do. In fact whites get a tan that is more beneficial than the African Americans

Originally posted by randomname
he was depressed and sick because the devil was giving him deluded ideas about the creation of humanity to discredit God and mislead the masses. the
theory of evolution makes absolutely no sense and it has more holes in it than swiss cheese. his observation on the camouflage of certain moths to the
bark of trees actually prove the opposite, since the odds of a moth naturally evolving wings and a body that match a tree perfectly are about the same
odds as a soldier in iraq growing rocks and sand on his skin to blend in the desert.

And yet dark skinned people who have lived in sunny and warm areas of Earth for thousands of generations have evolved so much that they are dark
skinned from the birth, while the white people who live in colder and less sunny areas are still white.
All life on planet Earth adapts to it's surroundings and evolves through that.

This must be the reason Inuits have evolved fur or must explain why blacks can't handle being in the hot sun in states like Arizona any better than
whites do. In fact whites get a tan that is more beneficial than the African Americans

Ever notice how African's are tall and skinny? That is so they have a longer body, so that they don't heat up as fast from body temperatures, it
also allows more area for wind hit to cool them down, due to them being from a hot zone.

The Eskimos are the opposite, they are usually short and larger than most people, so they can be closer to the ground, and so they can have a higher
body temperature.

Some things in evolution have no use, such as skin color. If there is something with no use, it stays, if there is something that is harmful, it
usually kills the carrier, so that they do not reproduce. Good things spread, because it gives an advantage.

I'd still much rather believe a sick man of science than a delusional man of religion.

There are religious scientist, you know?

There's no difference, there is absolutely no difference whatsoever.
The world is a place full of magic and wonder, even the greatest of scientist will attest to that,

Wernher Von Braun [1912-1977]; first Director of NASA, pioneer of space exploration
"Scientific concepts exist only in the minds of men.
Behind these concepts lies the reality which is being revealed to us, but only by the grace of God."

I always believed things were revealed in a timely matter, and knowledge was dispensed, and that the dispensation of knowledge is limited,

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
There are MANY who are Spiritual Atheists, lacking a belief in a deity, but believing in a spiritual realm
of some sort.

Wait, gonna slightly derail the thread right here. So a spiritual atheist is someone who doesn't believe in a literal God, but he/she does believe in
some form of God, right? In contrast with traditional atheists who reject the idea of God altogether.

And regarding this thread itself, I'm just gonna say this. For what it's worth what Darwin had been doing throughout his years of suffering, of
illness, his accomplishment and all, it is his own spiritual journey, his own path.

A lot of people especially in the west always think spirituality equals religion, and God always have to be an omnipotent and omniscient creator, but
that is not necessarily has to be the case.

edit: whops a typo, I meant a spiritual atheist not a spiritual theist.

He had the misfortune of seeing the death of three of his children , two in infancy and the third ,Annie at the age of 10 . Whatever ones beliefs in
life , the loss of your children would be an understandable source of anguish and depression.

I find this thread of yours rather perplexing , it does not seem in keeping with your usual high standards.
You usually construct solid, well sourced threads ....... this is flimsy verging on the petty and vindictive .

You do realize Charles Darwin was planning on becoming a clergy man dont you. Darwin was a non-conformist but attended a Church of England school.
With the aim of becoming a clergyman he went to the University of Cambridge for the required BA degree, which included studies of Anglican theology.
He took great interest in natural history and become filled with zeal for science as defined by John Herschel, based on the natural theology of
William Paley which presented the argument from divine design in nature to explain adaptation as God acting through laws of nature So i guess you
could argue he was insane but i dont think that helps your case much.

1. Mentally ill people come to outlandish and untrue conclusions.
2. Darwin was mentally ill, therefore his scientific conclusions were outlandish and untrue.
3. Therefore there IS a God and atheism and materialism are factually incorrect.

The problems with these deductions are:

1. Mentally ill people also come to true conclusions.
2. Modern science supports Darwin's conclusions.
3. Mentally healthy people also come to outlandish and untrue conclusions.

The deduction (that there is a God and that atheism is factually incorrect) has nothing to do with the premise of the argument (that Darwin was
supposedly mentally ill).

Originally posted by Jazzyguy
Wait, gonna slightly derail the thread right here. So a spiritual theist is someone who doesn't believe in a literal God, but he/she does believe in
some form of God, right?

Not necessarily.

I don't believe in ANY God or conscious single creator (outside of nature) but I do believe that we human beings have a spiritual
aspect that exists before and after we die. In fact, I believe that we ARE spirits, in possession of a temporary body and mind. I also believe in the
possibility that a collective of these "spirits" is responsible for our being here on this Earth.

People make the assumption that believing in an after life or a spiritual aspect is automatically connected to a belief in a supreme creator (deity).
Atheist means lacking a belief in a deity. Period. It doesn't imply anything more, but people like to put labels on others and therefore like
to think of atheists as lacking spiritualism, morality and values.

Ever notice how African's are tall and skinny? That is so they have a longer body, so that they don't heat up as fast from body temperatures, it
also allows more area for wind hit to cool them down, due to them being from a hot zone.

Is this the Johansen study? or your own contrivance?

How does being closer to the ground conserve body temperature when the ground is usually ice and snow.

Ever notice how African's are tall and skinny? That is so they have a longer body, so that they don't heat up as fast from body temperatures,

Must be hell for the children being so short and all huh

Some things in evolution have no use, such as skin color. If there is something with no use, it stays, if there is something that is harmful,
it usually kills the carrier, so that they do not reproduce. Good things spread, because it gives an advantage.

Yes I understand that but it it has limits that have been tested and those limits have been re-tested and observed. If anything would have proven a
transition in the making, the domestic dog would have, but what we see in the most varied animal breeding is Big Dogs small dogs tuff dogs skinny dogs
even dogs with polka dots but all of em have all the distinct characteristics of dogs and we seem to have hit a limit to what they can produce. When
science can come up with a plausible explanation for how male and female reproduction evolved without using any speculations, I would love to hear
another try.

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