Certainly not the worst decision by a president in history but it's not a good decision. First the cost is ridiculous and then upkeep will have to be maintained. It's going to involve stealing some citizens private land. About 40% of illegals come legally on a Visa and then just overstay. Of those that do cross the border, there are many that actively turn themselves in as the first thing they do to get bond and remain in the country while they wait for a trial, a wall changes nothing for these people. The battle against illegal immigration needs to be fought in Congress via extensive legal reforms that should have been started decades ago.

Think about it this way, if various Individuals are trespassing through ones property by climbing over you metal fence, or wooden fence, and illegally set up a residence on your own property?

If some aren't ok with people illegally trespassing on your land, your yard, or through the middle of your home, then why should the United States overall, be treated differently?

How does a private citizens property, get to matter to a home and property owner, but some lack the same sensibility when it comes to the United States overall, when it comes to the safety of the country?

Simply stated, are some maybe placing the illegal immigrants over the rest of the citizens in this country?

Are some of the 11-22 million illegal immigrants in the United States, maybe viewed as a probable voter pool?

Don't build a wall, but maybe create more sanctuary cities, for some of the illegal immigrants to get sanctuary from?

If the border wall is being frowned upon, then the reasons need to be worthy, of putting the United States in the harm's way of giving the illegal immigrants the various benefits of doubt?

Some of the illegal immigrants have killed US citizens, but apparently that reason alone, isn't maybe to some, reason enough to build a wall?

"so you can't think of any way to fight illegal immigration besides a wall?"

The truth is this, the illegal immigration issue shouldn't have been allowed to have become the massive elephant in the room conversation that's it grossly grown into.

How about fixing the issue with some accountability?

President Trump used the phrases border wall, and border security?

While some of the liberals on the other hand, seemed to be OK with border security, minus the border wall?

So what might equate to being a better idea when it comes to the accountability question?

I believe that a border wall, and border security, sounds like good accountability to me?

And going back to history, when former President Reagan, granted the original 2.7 million illegal immigrants with amnesty back in 1986?

Maybe another reason why some of the 11-22 million immigrants have been coming to the United States illegally, for the past 30 plus years, maybe they're hoping that another President, might grant them amnesty as well?

Or maybe there is a double standard in play when, it comes to those who come into the United States illegally?

Basically meaning, that as long as someone isn't trespassing unto someone's own property, maybe some of those same property owners don't mind some of the immigrants coming into the United States illegally via the border, just as long as those trespassers refrain from illegally trespasses unto one's own property that isn't a part of the southern border?

I vote no. because Trump had a lot of worse than this decision like protecting Saudi Arabia
that is a brutally activity in Yemen and in its country. And seperation
of mother from their children in Mexico. or exiting from JCPOA or Paris
agreement. US last presidents had a lot of decision worse than it too. From attacking with nuclear bomb to Hiroshima or attacking to Vietnam and Iraq and Afghanistan.

The Border Wall will be the worst decision by a U.S President in history

worse than starting meaningless wars that have gotten so many people killed? that seems a worst decision, so that indicates to me this is someone you can't have an honest discussion with, and extremist who won't hear a different position, logic or statistics. the title is a statement and not a question for opinions. reminiscence of, I know you are but what am I argument strategy.

I would say it would be pretty bad, but far from the worst. Sure, it is worse than, say, Obamacare, and probably compared to the Patriot Act. But it does not compare to many of Wilson's "reforms". It does not compare to the second Roosevelt's assault on the free market. It does not compare to the concentration camps for Japanese after World War 2. It does not compare to Lincoln's destruction of state rights. It does not compare to Jackson's genocide against the natives.

Trump's wall would definitely enter historical books as a very shameful stain on the American history. Where Reagan demolished a wall, Trump is looking to build one. But let us be fair here: American history, as is any other history, is not without dark parts, and Trump with his ridiculous proposals is not very unique in this regard.

When anyone becomes a political representative in the United States, that that politician addresses the issues that might be harassing the constituent's that the politician is responsible for.

Like a balanced budget, employment, health care, health insurance, infrastructure, the various crimes that affect the politician's constituent's and so on.

And the border, it's been hemorrhaging with issues since the late 1980's.

It should have been getting addressed each year, and each year after that, without question, instead of kicking the can in regards to illegal immigration and the border, from one election year cycle to the next election year cycle.

It's sad that the current POTUS gets grief for it, when it could have been addressed 30 plus years ago.

And at the same time letting the issues that are a part of the border wall problem, fester along with the border, year after year.

I vote no. because Trump had a lot of worse than this decision like protecting Saudi Arabia
that is a brutally activity in Yemen and in its country. And seperation
of mother from their children in Mexico. or exiting from JCPOA or Paris
agreement. US last presidents had a lot of decision worse than it too. From attacking with nuclear bomb to Hiroshima or attacking to Vietnam and Iraq and Afghanistan.

The issue with your argument is the atomic bomb was the only real way to defeat Japan.

The Japanese knew where the U.S and allies would land on the Japanese mainland, and as such deaths would rise to the MILLIONS! And the Japanese deaths would be even higher because the Japanese military would've thrown every. single. person! The A-Bomb saved millions of lives (Sure, it was brutal, but I'd much rather drop two bombs than sends millions to die, and nearly wipe an entire group of people because of their emperor following a code where surrendering is worse than dying)

No, actually it's a very good idea. It's an important part of a border security strategy.

So, building a wall, which can be easily defeated by a ladder is a good idea?

About 40% of all illegals enter via visa and overstay. so really the wall only stops 60%, but that 60% of immigrants would just either fly, dig underground, swim around, sail around or simply use a ladder. Something a wall CAN"T STOP unless Trump is willing to pay a lot of people to man and maintain it, which would be even more money spent when there are better ways to solve the issue at hand

If the wall is placed it would be the biggest waste of money in recent history

So, building a wall, which can be easily defeated by a ladder is a good idea?

About 40% of all illegals enter via visa and overstay. so really the wall only stops 60%, but that 60% of immigrants would just either fly, dig underground, swim around, sail around or simply use a ladder. Something a wall CAN"T STOP unless Trump is willing to pay a lot of people to man and maintain it, which would be even more money spent when there are better ways to solve the issue at hand

If the wall is placed it would be the biggest waste of money in recent history

"Only" 60% is a great start. How many women in their 3rd trimester are going to be climbing that ladder? Building that wall limits the areas that can be accessed, making it much easier for Border Patrol to catch illegals by concentrating their forces in those areas.

watch the video of the press conference with Chuck and Nancy, Trump tossed out some stats of 90+% effective where the walls have been already built, and they still haven't challenged those numbers, that's a pretty powerful testament if they won't or can't challenge his figures. Given they challenge every thing from Trump regardless of importance.

Can you explain to me what you find to be irrelevant about the below points of view?

There should be a law passed that expresses this:

When anyone becomes a political representative in the United States, that that politician addresses the issues that might be harassing the constituent's that the politician is responsible for.

Like a balanced budget, employment, health care, health insurance, infrastructure, the various crimes that affect the politician's constituent's and so on.

And the border, it's been hemorrhaging with issues since the late 1980's.

It should have been getting addressed each year, and each year after that, without question, instead of kicking the can in regards to illegal immigration and the border, from one election year cycle to the next election year cycle.

It's sad that the current POTUS gets grief for it, when it could have been addressed 30 plus years ago.

And at the same time letting the issues that are a part of the border wall problem, fester along with the border, year after year.

"The Border Wall will be the worst decision by a U.S President in history"

I disagree with you, I think that the worst decision in the history of the southern border, have been those decisions made by the immigrants, in them deciding to come into the United States illegally for all these years.

"The Border Wall will be the worst decision by a U.S President in history"

I disagree with you, I think that the worst decision in the history of the southern border, have been those decisions made by the immigrants, in them deciding to come into the United States illegally for all these years.

@TTKDB Pretty ironic you are asking someone else here to answer the posted question. Care to re-read your own post where you quoted the question? When I said the president that is a band of migrants at the southern border I was being sarcastic to highlight that your answer to the question of the worst decision a president has made was the decisions make by migrants at the border, none of which are or were presidents so your answer is irrelevant to the conversation in the thread.

So, building a wall, which can be easily defeated by a ladder is a good idea?

About 40% of all illegals enter via visa and overstay. so really the wall only stops 60%, but that 60% of immigrants would just either fly, dig underground, swim around, sail around or simply use a ladder. Something a wall CAN"T STOP unless Trump is willing to pay a lot of people to man and maintain it, which would be even more money spent when there are better ways to solve the issue at hand

If the wall is placed it would be the biggest waste of money in recent history

"Only" 60% is a great start. How many women in their 3rd trimester are going to be climbing that ladder? Building that wall limits the areas that can be accessed, making it much easier for Border Patrol to catch illegals by concentrating their forces in those areas.

Building the wall would quickly more than pay for itself.

...

But then more people will just use a visa to bypass the wall and just overstay.

It's a bloody miracale only 40% of illegals use a visa to get in.

And how would Border Patrol be able to handle illegals using boats, ladders, underground tunnels and planes without being overwhelmed

Then how else should we solve the crisis? There really is no border "fence", there are many gaps, and it does not stretch across the entire border. Trafficking of drugs and many other things are done by or on the border, not on planes or boats. The coast guard are good at their jobs, and the success rate of "drug" mules are not high. The wall could work, we need an actual boundary between Mexico and us because the sorry excuse for a border "fence" is not doing us well.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

Then how else should we solve the crisis? There really is no border "fence", there are many gaps, and it does not stretch across the entire border. Trafficking of drugs and many other things are done by or on the border, not on planes or boats. The coast guard are good at their jobs, and the success rate of "drug" mules are not high. The wall could work, we need an actual boundary between Mexico and us because the sorry excuse for a border "fence" is not doing us well.

Oh Yeah, because taxpayers are willing to waste money away for something like this:

But then more people will just use a visa to bypass the wall and just overstay.

It's a bloody miracale only 40% of illegals use a visa to get in.

And how would Border Patrol be able to handle illegals using boats, ladders, underground tunnels and planes without being overwhelmed

Um, no, the number of VIsas doesn't change. In fact, Visas can be scrutinized more thoroughly because there would be more applicants due to fewer people being able to walk across the border.

Border Patrol probably wouldn't handle boats, that would be the Coast Guard. Illegals don't fly in, they can't get passed airport security. That leaves Border Patrol to deal only with people trying to use ladders and tunnels, which is a WHOLE Lot easier than tying to secure thousands of miles of open borders. Also, there's something you seem to be forgetting in your photo; you may be able to get to the top of the wall in the photo, but how do you get down?

But then more people will just use a visa to bypass the wall and just overstay.

It's a bloody miracale only 40% of illegals use a visa to get in.

And how would Border Patrol be able to handle illegals using boats, ladders, underground tunnels and planes without being overwhelmed

Um, no, the number of VIsas doesn't change. In fact, Visas can be scrutinized more thoroughly because there would be more applicants due to fewer people being able to walk across the border.

Border Patrol probably wouldn't handle boats, that would be the Coast Guard. Illegals don't fly in, they can't get passed airport security. That leaves Border Patrol to deal only with people trying to use ladders and tunnels, which is a WHOLE Lot easier than tying to secure thousands of miles of open borders. Also, there's something you seem to be forgetting in your photo; you may be able to get to the top of the wall in the photo, but how do you get down?

When I mean to go around by flying, I don't mean on a public airplane.

I on something like this.

You don't need to go through airport security when you have outside help or just find one sitting around

A border wall is not the basic issue we are calling people
who are not citizen of the United States a Criminal for simply being on United States
soil is part of much bigger problem and it’s this cost that is the highest. Becoming
more complicated as all the value is not in money alone. This makes a commitment
meaning that it must be proven and the wall is the illegal constitutional trap
we create ourselves.

The wall by basic principle is not to keep anyone out it
marks a placement for a much larger project like a canal.

That's why I said OUTSIDE HELP. A.K.A someone who has the money and can fly

If you're lucky, you can make it over the border. If you're really really lucky, you can make it over the border undetected. What then? You still need an airport to land at unless you plan to bail out.

People can and have been digging tunnels under the border for years. I fail to see how a wall above ground would somehow put an end to that. Your communist agenda of trying to convince hard working people that we need to pay for your wall is UnAmerican. You should be ashamed. I thought Mexico was supposed to pay for it, but your guy in the white house is now calling for it to funded in the American budget. I'm starting to question whether you're a real person, or a troll bot that's been programmed in Moscow.

That's why I said OUTSIDE HELP. A.K.A someone who has the money and can fly

If you're lucky, you can make it over the border. If you're really really lucky, you can make it over the border undetected. What then? You still need an airport to land at unless you plan to bail out.

Or land in a flat field... In which you can then escape without detection...

Once again, any "wall" that Trump claims has worked well is/was fully manned 24/7. Prison walls? There are gunners placed every 200 feet. Berlin Wall? 500,000 personnel was involved in watching that wall, tiny in comparison to the planned US border wall. 38 parallel wall? I do not think I need to go into the details on that one, not to mention that the wall itself is only a minor part of all the fortifications. Chinese wall? It never worked at not letting anyone in, it only helped fight the invaders on the advantageous terms. Iron Curtain? The parts involving walls were manned 24/7 by an incredible amount of personnel, and people still snicked in through the unmanned parts with ease - the problem was finding those parts, which was difficult in the conditions of total informational isolation, but easy in the age of Internet.

Unless you are going to attract millions guards to the wall and pay for their employment and for wall maintenance hundreds billions a year, your wall will never work. And if you do partake in that incredible spending plan, then every time you say "Obamacare", people will laugh hysterically and point at how tame that spending was compared to yours.

Trump is a very good snake oil salesman, and his followers will take any of his ideas as Gospel, even if he made his idea up as a figure of speech during one of his rallies. The guy knows his craft, and I am pretty envious of him.

@MayCaesar plus at the point of the cost of building + paying people to man the wall + upkeep of the wall, it's just cheaper and faster to pay more people to man the border for many many years. Added bonus of adding jobs.

People can and have been digging tunnels under the border for years. I fail to see how a wall above ground would somehow put an end to that. Your communist agenda of trying to convince hard working people that we need to pay for your wall is UnAmerican. You should be ashamed. I thought Mexico was supposed to pay for it, but your guy in the white house is now calling for it to funded in the American budget. I'm starting to question whether you're a real person, or a troll bot that's been programmed in Moscow.

Well, one thing is certain, you're nothing more than a left-wing demagogue. What's easier for Border Patrol to stop, 100 people crossing 1000 miles of open border, or 100 people all coming out of the same tunnel exit? I know there are a lot of anti-American idiots out there like you who want to throw the borders wide open and welcome anyone in that wants to come in for any reason they can come up with, or even no reason at all, but we need some controls. And BTW, Trump said Mexico would pay for the wall, he never said they would pay for the wall up front. USMCA is a first step.

Once again, any "wall" that Trump claims has worked well is/was fully manned 24/7. Prison walls? There are gunners placed every 200 feet. Berlin Wall? 500,000 personnel was involved in watching that wall, tiny in comparison to the planned US border wall. 38 parallel wall? I do not think I need to go into the details on that one, not to mention that the wall itself is only a minor part of all the fortifications. Chinese wall? It never worked at not letting anyone in, it only helped fight the invaders on the advantageous terms. Iron Curtain? The parts involving walls were manned 24/7 by an incredible amount of personnel, and people still snicked in through the unmanned parts with ease - the problem was finding those parts, which was difficult in the conditions of total informational isolation, but easy in the age of Internet.

Unless you are going to attract millions guards to the wall and pay for their employment and for wall maintenance hundreds billions a year, your wall will never work. And if you do partake in that incredible spending plan, then every time you say "Obamacare", people will laugh hysterically and point at how tame that spending was compared to yours.

Trump is a very good snake oil salesman, and his followers will take any of his ideas as Gospel, even if he made his idea up as a figure of speech during one of his rallies. The guy knows his craft, and I am pretty envious of him.

That explains why there are no gated communities in the US. Oh, wait, ALL of the highest end properties in the US are in gates communities. No one is talking about putting up the wall and getting rid of all the people in Border Patrol, but you cannot be so dense as to believe the wall would not help Border Patrol significantly. OTOH, for some reason you seem to think that a wall that would cost a small fraction of $100B to erect would costs "hundreds billions a year" to maintain, so you clearly aren't thinking rationally.

@TTKDB ok so now we know you go off of pictures to help understand words. A ladder on a wall is directly related to a conversation on whether a wall is a bad decision or not. Stating a hypothetical about a potentially bad decision has nothing to do with this decision. One could say hypothetically Trump could nuke every country that illegal immigrants come from and that would be a bad decision, and that would be as relevant as your comment.

Or land in a flat field... In which you can then escape without detection...

Negative, you're not going to land that plane in any old field. That plane needs a landing strip.

Well all you need is a privately owned airstrip to land on and it's legal. If there is a group wealthy enough to afford a plane and run a business of smuggling illegals, they can probably afford to buy land out in the desert somewhere.