Actually, to me it isn't nearly as much as it is made out to be. I don't think it is any more so than KOTOR and TSL were.

No, TOR is deliberately styled to look just like the Clone Wars for marketing purposes. K1 (and TSL) had some basic aesthetics that made it recognisable as Star Wars - lightsabers, droids, spaceships and FTL travel, aliens like Wookiees, Twi'leks, etc - but the art style was deliberately different to distinguish it from the movies. There were nods, but it was distinct enough to make it believable that it could be thousands of years before the movies. Of course K1 stepped over these bounds in one instance with the Yoda clone Vandar, and TSL did so by introducing a knock-off Star Destroyer that Nihilus took as his flagship, but those are pretty much the only examples that I can think of.

TOR, on the other hand, is nothing but a string of constant movie and cartoon knockoffs. I'm not sure who's decision that was, but I'm pretty sure LucasArts had a big say in the matter. The Republic troopers are dead ringers for prequel/Clone Wars cartoon Clone Troopers, the Agent pretty much has one of Padme's ships from TPM/AOTC, the Sith Empire uses the OT-era's Empire symbology and text/language (retconning that Palpatine ripped it off I gather), the Empire's capital ships are all OT-era Star Destroyer designs, the military on both sides use all manner of Prequel-esque equipment like the walkers the Clones use and the various droid designs of the Separatists, etc., etc.

The artistic styles are chalk and cheese. If you showed TOR and K1/TSL footage to someone who only knew the movies, I think it's very likely they'd peg TOR as something set in the movie timeline (likely a Clone Wars game) and K1/TSL as Star Wars, but not something they were familiar with.

People make it sound like that they just copied and pasted the movies into TOR. Yes, they're using a lot of the elements from the movie, it's a smart move in terms of an MMO that's trying to attract a very wide variety of Star Wars fans who are among the hardcore like us and who are just the casual ones who recognise things from the movies they watch occasionally but aren't crazy into it like we are.

That said, I still feel like a lot of the designs with all of the assets stand on their own as well. I've spent hundreds of hours on the game so I can see which styles are influenced by the OT and PT/Clone Wars and which aren't and you start to see a nice mix happening as you go through the game.

Added to that, 1.2 is adding a hell of a lot of new designs to the mix and I've gotten to see a lot of them while playing through the Public Test Server, the designs are moving away from the OT/PT/CW designs people keep bitching about and we're about to get some pretty interesting gear coming our way.

From the looks of it, they're trying to draw in the masses with the OT/PT/CW style but are slowly moving into more unique territory as the game progresses its ongoing development.

As I said, I suspect LA played a heavy role in the stylistic direction and there is no doubt it was done for marketing purposes. Maybe now that the launch is out of the way, the devs will have a little more freedom in some areas. I think it unlikely there will be a radical shift though. Troopers will continue to look like Clones, Bounty Hunters will continue to look like Boba/Jango Fett, etc.

Yea, they need to strike a line down the middle, they had very Clone Wars heavy stuff pre-launch, now the new stuff for 1.2 is like something you'd see in 5,000 bby (Which I love of course being a TOTJ fan) But its too archaic for the setting and design style.

TOR, on the other hand, is nothing but a string of constant movie and cartoon knockoffs. I'm not sure who's decision that was, but I'm pretty sure LucasArts had a big say in the matter. The Republic troopers are dead ringers for prequel/Clone Wars cartoon Clone Troopers, the Agent pretty much has one of Padme's ships from TPM/AOTC, the Sith Empire uses the OT-era's Empire symbology and text/language (retconning that Palpatine ripped it off I gather), the Empire's capital ships are all OT-era Star Destroyer designs, the military on both sides use all manner of Prequel-esque equipment like the walkers the Clones use and the various droid designs of the Separatists, etc., etc.

As others have pointed out, it isn't as if everything is a carbon copy. Actually playing TOR doesn't in any way feel like I'm playing Clone Wars 2.0. For every ship or droid design that is somewhat similar, there are even more that are unique. KOTOR/TSL had this too. Playing myself I am struck by how little similarities there are to the PT, considering all the bitching that went on when the game was in development.

I was in the "we must have KotOR III!" camp... now I don't give a rats about KotOR III cause I just don't care anymore because I have no more faith in LucasArts or any Star Wars products in general anymore.

To clarify, I don't hate LucasArts and they haven't ruined my life. They haven't made anything I've been interested in in years though, and when the biggest things they have coming out are an MMO and a Kinect game, it doesn't look like that'll be changing for a while.

So far rumours have been floating around of the possibilities of new Star Wars games, but we're not hearing anything concrete.

As for the two games we have now, it seems that the gaming community has pretty much universally shunned Kinect Star Wars, however for the people who have actually played The Old Republic (rather than just sitting back, never playing it and complaining profusely about it because it has some relation to KotOR (pic below)) have said that they love it. So at the moment we at least have a 50% success rate for Star Wars games that have been released recently.

Also, playing the introduction of a game doesn't really count... after all, you can't really grasp the terribleness of Metroid: Other M (never letting it go) in the introduction, you have to get deeper into the game and experience all of the many layers of terribleness to see just how bad it is. In the end, I played the game 100% back to front just to know for sure how terrible it is and to know for sure that it is the one and only game that I actually HATE.

I don't go after the people who say they don't want to pay fees to play the game, that is completely understandable and I support their position on it. HOWEVER, I do go after the folks who start spouting off specific things in a game they've never actually played.

It is a big commitment and folks who don't find enough value in the game who quit do so understandably... again, fees suck, can't find worth in paying them then why would you?

Going along with that, the story in TOR also take a big commitment considering it's spread over 8 different classes... which again, is why I understand why folks choose to quit after they've played through one class. For them, that's the game and that's it...

The two biggest complaints people have about TOR is that it has fees and that it isn't the way KotOR should be. The next step down seems to be that it's too much of a commitment. All of these are understandable points to make. Fees suck, no it isn't like KotOR, if it were we'd have KotOR III and then people would complain about that not being the way they wanted it to be instead, and finally it does take a big commitment to actually go through all of this content.

I don't think fees are really the issue for people that quit. People complaining about fees are the ones that have never played an MMO. The people that quit probably have a range of issues with the game, but a fairly common one is TOR's lack of innovation. Once you get past some of the window dressing, it's the same old tired MMO mechanics we've had for years.

Can't argue with that considering my lack of experience with other MMO's, though from the little I've played of other MMO's... I certainly like the story being weaved in TOR throughout the different classes and the fact that it's fully voice acted (though I do get tired of the alien speak here and there... BAH! @ reading). It is a story driven MMO after all and is the biggest selling point BioWare has been pushing for the game since day 1.

Aside from that I never really expected it to be any different from any other MMO from what people have told me about them... Aside from the fact that you can use lightsabers and blasters and stuff, which you could call window dressing, but the different between a blaster and a bow is pretty big for me.

To be perfectly honest, if it weren't for the story element of TOR and the fact that I can finally play a heroic Trooper... I would never have gotten into it... and then the whole Marauder storyline I go to experience was an awesome bonus... and now I'm discovering the hilarity of the smuggler storyline...

Story is basically the only thing TOR has. Sure, it suckered in a few non-MMO players by virtue of that fact, but the vast bulk of their target audience, the people that are going to be playing it long term, probably care about story as much as your average COD or Battlefield player does. WoW (which TOR is trying to emulate - far too closely in my opinion) didn't get a playerbase of 10 million+ because it had a gripping story.

I love how you put that, suckered in... yes, video games are a waste of time and we shouldn't be suckered in by any of it, let's all talk about more important issues... TO KAVAR'S EVERYONE!! *leads the way*

lol, I kid.

You're right, for the long term folks want to enjoy endgame pve, roleplaying, and also the pvp aspect of the game and these elements of the games which are being updated and refined with each update... however there are quite a lot of people who can't wait for the story updates as well. We've already gotten confirmation that there's going to be a major story update coming to the game later this year which will feature new class quests and such.

The story of TOR alone won't be what gets people in, but it adds another layer for people to enjoy about the game. Some players ignore story altogether and focus on pvp, I like the story and endgame pve content, others are hardcore roleplayers... having that story element isn't the be all and end all feature of TOR, but it adds to it and there are plenty of people who play TOR for different reasons.

I'll admit I was surprised at how woven in to the story you are... I came to tOR with the goal of walking through the story but my main goal was the massive galaxy and the Star Wars setting, and I could create my own story be immersed in that universe. I stay around because I hope they will eventually build a world worth living in over the next year or so.

I'm a massive kotOR/SPRPG fan, but I came here for an MMO, and this isn't quite an MMO yet IMO.

I wish they'd put in SWG JTL-esque space combat. That would be worth the price of admission alone.

Rumour has it they've got a team working on expanding space combat beyond the on-rails variant we have currently.

And yeah, I too want a more free-form variant of space combat... I am, after all, originally a member of Rogue Squadron.net ...and Lynk Former is the name of an X-Wing pilot persona I created for myself in Primary School back in 1996... XD

Story is the reason I am playing it. Without the story, I would not have bothered with picking up the game. It will also be the continued story and the different stories that will keep me playing for the long term. What the story has done is introduce to other elements of MMO game play that either I found I enjoy or at least have me curious.

I like playing at my own pace, never thought I would want to play a game with someone else. However, I’m having a blast playing with Lynk. It is made even more enjoyable because he is playing a smuggler (my main toon is a smuggler) and playing with Lynk allows me to see the differences between a lightside and darkside smuggler. I struggle at times keeping up with Lynk as he runs around in all directions, but I’m still having fun. Hoping this is preparing me better for the pacing of HMFP.

Seeing Mav PVPing every night has me curious about at least trying that (just not with my sawbones fragile smuggler).

The story may not keep me involved forever, but it has allowed me to find other reason to play. We are we coming up on four months in and I only have one toon at level 50, so story alone will keep me involved for a long time, especially if they start adding to it.

@ Hassat Hunter: I've just read through your posts on the page you linked... Wow... you complain about the game just as much as the people who love to play the game do... the difference is that the people who love the game complain in the official forums where their complaints are actually addressed by representatives of BioWare, whether they are customer service folks, community managers or the actual developers themselves.

These complaints aren't falling on deaf ears, as best they can, the developers are trying to address as many of the complaints they can and for the most part, they'd doing a pretty good job. Some of the complaints you've had about the game is in fact being fixed in update 1.2, a lot of features regarding pvp is also being refined so that you don't end up facing an army of lv50 pvp geared folks while playing as a lv17 with pve gear.

As for some of your other complaints, some are understandable, some sound a little silly. Well yeah, if the quest giver says that they're having trouble with monsters in a particular area, it seems only natural that the game would get you to kill the monsters in that particular area that the npc told you was being overrun... it just makes sense. Also, some of the complaints you had seemed really odd since I've never actually experienced them myself.

But yeah, there are small things about TOR which annoy me too, I complain about the game quite often as well, though my complaints are mostly posted around other TOR players who have actually gone through the same things I've gone through and understand what I'm talking about through experience. Of course, saying that, I know that a lot of the complaints I have on the game are being addressed because I'm also keeping up with news of the game.

As for the gameplay itself... it does take some getting used to, I was prepared because I bought a logitech g700 gaming mouse and also a g13 gameboard which allows me to have maximum control over my character and their many abilities and customise everything just the way I want it to be with all of the available keys/buttons.

I also had the benefit of playing TOR through beta as well. At first I found the gameplay to be clunky and I had my complaints about it which other more experience MMO players couldn't understand. However through experience I figured out how things worked, set my hotkeys, made all my customisations and now the gameplay is buttery smooth and my toons do exactly what I want them to do and I have control over the camera at all times with great ease.

Trying to get that from a demo isn't going to happen so yeah, it does sound like a pretty horrible experience... maybe BioWare should rethink it's demo strategy to make it friendlier on people trying it out.