Indmar just revealed that they're using the ford 6.2, and its a "game changer". fail to see how this is a game changer when the chevy and ford 6.2 produce nearly the same hp and tq?

drschemel

11-05-2013, 05:35 PM

probably using the Ford EcoBoost technology for better fuel economy.

Aric'sX15

11-05-2013, 05:39 PM

they aren't. announced its the 6.2

clrussell

11-05-2013, 05:40 PM

I saw this at the sema show today. Had a new supra and a raptor sitting next to each other.

Dylan

11-05-2013, 05:56 PM

Alliance Wake just posted the pic on their instagram

Edit: http://instagram.com/p/gWUDDpkm3a/

FourFourty

11-05-2013, 06:16 PM

No supercharger, no care.... The ford 6.2 is nothing special without Roush goodies.

willyt

11-05-2013, 06:39 PM

WOW THIS IS GAME CHANGING!!! ANOTHER ENGINE THAT BURNS GASOLINE AND IS 6.2L!!!

impressed = not.

willyt

11-05-2013, 06:51 PM

haha, its like the tige ASR release. now that was game changing

bjames

11-05-2013, 07:00 PM

Sounds like the same engine in my 2012 F250 gasser. Its not very efficient.

CantRepeat

11-05-2013, 07:24 PM

Yup, I'm switching brands now.

4sale 06 X30 pls PM best offers.

FourFourty

11-05-2013, 07:49 PM

Yup, I'm switching brands now.

4sale 06 X30 pls PM best offers.

If it doesn't have a Ford 6.2l, I wont buy it. The game has changed, my friend. The game has changed.

scott023

11-05-2013, 07:58 PM

If it doesn't have a Ford 6.2l, I wont buy it. The game has changed, my friend. The game has changed.

:uglyhamme

I'd take a GM 6.2 over fords any day.

dlamont

11-05-2013, 08:21 PM

Why would they switch to Ford? Is this just for the 6.2? Or are all Indmar engines going to Ford blocks?
Please spare the Ford vs. Chevy argument. This has to be a money thing right?

FourFourty

11-05-2013, 08:33 PM

Why would they switch to Ford? Is this just for the 6.2? Or are all Indmar engines going to Ford blocks?
Please spare the Ford vs. Chevy argument. This has to be a money thing right?

I wouldn't think so..... Ford engines have always cost more than GM.... Which is the same reason that GMs are far more popular in small scale car racing.

1redTA

11-05-2013, 08:46 PM

I wouldn't think so..... Ford engines have always cost more than GM.... Which is the same reason that GMs are far more popular in small scale car racing.

It's hard to beat pushrod technology, cost wise

Aric'sX15

11-06-2013, 01:15 AM

haha, its like the tige ASR release. now that was game changing

same thing came to my mind too... haha. Nothing like a tige ASR with a ford 6.2 in it. what a game changer!!!!

Stefan

11-06-2013, 02:31 AM

That just sold me to the dark side, especially with the missing Bodensee certification...

edit: seeing that picture, @mastercraft: do I get a ZFT4 for my F-Series now???

bturner2

11-06-2013, 07:57 AM

I'm just surprised that they didn't go with the 5.0 Coyote or do something really cutting edge like the V6 Eco Boost. I think that would have gotten everyone's attention and could have been a game changer.

Marine applications always seem to lag (except in racing) but I do believe we could all benefit from some newer technology like direct injection (at a minimum), variable cam timing or turbo boosting if it's possible.

As far as bringing Ford back into the marine market...... It never hurts to have multiple players vying for your dollars. Maybe just maybe someone will actually bring a game changer to market if there's some competition. I for one certainly haven't seen anything spectacular or game changing out of the Ilmor shop when it comes to marine power. Indmar still makes a solid power plant and to be truthful they still look better (at least cosmetically) than the Ilmor offerings. Their exhaust manifolds look like headers, their mult port plenums are well finished and they still use aluminum pulleys for their accessory drive. A lot of people will say it doesn't matter what an engine looks like as long as it runs well but it does to me when I'm paying for it and I do care about the engineering and attention to detail when it comes to all aspects of my toys.

While I'm sure Imor engineering is solid and there are several features that have been added that make a difference in serviceability, would it really hurt them to make a product that's going into arguably one of the most expensive tow boats in the market look the part. If you look at what they're producing for other customers they certainly have that capability. I just kind of get the feeling that because they have a lock on the MasterCraft business they provide the minimum to get the job done. Where as Indmar actually has to earn it's customers business.

FourFourty

11-06-2013, 09:01 AM

^ Not to point out the obvious..... But, the 7.4l is a pretty good example of how Ilmore is going above and beyond. It is a fully hand built, custom engine, with forged internals. It has easy to access filters, looks like a pumpkin, and is the most aggressive sounding Marine engine I have ever heard.

I would say that is a step above what PCM and Indmar are doing...... Heck, they don't even design their own intake and exhaust manifolds.....

JimN

11-06-2013, 09:55 AM

I'm just surprised that they didn't go with the 5.0 Coyote or do something really cutting edge like the V6 Eco Boost. I think that would have gotten everyone's attention and could have been a game changer.

Marine applications always seem to lag (except in racing) but I do believe we could all benefit from some newer technology like direct injection (at a minimum), variable cam timing or turbo boosting if it's possible.

As far as bringing Ford back into the marine market...... It never hurts to have multiple players vying for your dollars. Maybe just maybe someone will actually bring a game changer to market if there's some competition. I for one certainly haven't seen anything spectacular or game changing out of the Ilmor shop when it comes to marine power. Indmar still makes a solid power plant and to be truthful they still look better (at least cosmetically) than the Ilmor offerings. Their exhaust manifolds look like headers, their mult port plenums are well finished and they still use aluminum pulleys for their accessory drive. A lot of people will say it doesn't matter what an engine looks like as long as it runs well but it does to me when I'm paying for it and I do care about the engineering and attention to detail when it comes to all aspects of my toys.

Marine application NEVER leads car/truck because it's a much smaller market segment and the EPA doesn't require the same emission levels. Plus, the capital investment would raise the cost to the consumer to levels that would kill the market- the price of cars/trucks is affected less because of economy of scale.

You want variable valve timing and more advanced technology in boats, yet the consensus here seems to be that dealers can't repair what's offered now? How much do you think that will cost to rectify? MC has tried to train the techs and dealers don't want to pay for qualified people, so we see nightmare scenarios, like the engine that wasn't repaired after 3 month in the middle of Summer, the ECM that was replaced and didn't fix the problem and several others I don't remember at the moment. Plus, buying all of the specialty tools and diagnostic equipment is a major cash expense, which is hard to eat when the business is seasonal in most of the World and isn't needed for all repairs. That said, and in light of the fact that people jump head first into fixing things they don't understand, how long before someone destroys their engine and comes here (or to another forum) to biatch that MC or the engine marinizer wouldn't cover it under the warranty that was voided by the boat owner? People complain that they can't work on their cars, yet they leap into their boats, some of which cost twice as much as their car (or more). Access to the engine seems to be part of the reason, but they do it without any training or service documentation, test equipment or the correct diagnostic procedures.

Does this seem odd to anyone, other than me?

JPK

11-06-2013, 11:13 AM

Anyone else think that motor looks wide and heavy? Probably be good for a big wake. As far as adding technology I agree with JimN. Also I don't see the point of adding an Ecoboost motor, turbos are loud so are superchargers when the current crop of motors are simple work well and cost efficient. OE manufacturers spend a fortune to keep engine noise quiet in the vehicle. It would be more difficult (not impossible but costly) in a inboard boat with a power added.

Also I wonder if the same guys complaining about fuel economy use ballast. Right now the OE automakers are looking at taking every bit of weight out of a vehicle to meet the difficult 2020 cafe standards for fuel economy. Pushing a heavy boat through the water uses more fuel.

soacj

11-06-2013, 11:28 AM

Anyone else think that motor looks wide and heavy?

The 6.2L Ford is wider than the pushrod Chevy V-8's due to its OHC design.

Couldn't agree more with JimN on this--do we really want greater complexity? I feel like we're at a pretty good balance of efficiency vs. cost in the current offerings.

mikeg205

11-06-2013, 11:34 AM

Marine application NEVER leads car/truck because it's a much smaller market segment and the EPA doesn't require the same emission levels. Plus, the capital investment would raise the cost to the consumer to levels that would kill the market- the price of cars/trucks is affected less because of economy of scale.

You want variable valve timing and more advanced technology in boats, yet the consensus here seems to be that dealers can't repair what's offered now? How much do you think that will cost to rectify? MC has tried to train the techs and dealers don't want to pay for qualified people, so we see nightmare scenarios, like the engine that wasn't repaired after 3 month in the middle of Summer, the ECM that was replaced and didn't fix the problem and several others I don't remember at the moment. Plus, buying all of the specialty tools and diagnostic equipment is a major cash expense, which is hard to eat when the business is seasonal in most of the World and isn't needed for all repairs. That said, and in light of the fact that people jump head first into fixing things they don't understand, how long before someone destroys their engine and comes here (or to another forum) to biatch that MC or the engine marinizer wouldn't cover it under the warranty that was voided by the boat owner? People complain that they can't work on their cars, yet they leap into their boats, some of which cost twice as much as their car (or more). Access to the engine seems to be part of the reason, but they do it without any training or service documentation, test equipment or the correct diagnostic procedures.

Does this seem odd to anyone, other than me?

Well said JimN - We'll have to scour the other sites to see what happens with the new power plant... a "I just want my Raptor engine to run well" thread.

Traxx822

11-06-2013, 11:42 AM

SNIP ...People complain that they can't work on their cars, yet they leap into their boats, some of which cost twice as much as their car (or more). Access to the engine seems to be part of the reason, but they do it without any training or service documentation, test equipment or the correct diagnostic procedures.

Does this seem odd to anyone, other than me?

Precisely why I won't touch my boat as far as repairs goes. Pay an expert, get fast quality results with a warranty, or do it myself and it cost me more. Its a pretty easy answer for me.

93Prostar190

11-06-2013, 11:53 AM

Ok, I'll chime in ... this is maybe related to Obama-care (just kidding) or the pickle fork on the new Prostar.

or ...

Somewhere at Ford, they have teams of people that sell fleet engines for marinization and teams of people in the part sales of their engine development. Those folks have gotten into Indmar and I am guessing other Marine power plant companies and started selling their stuff .... they won at Indmar.

Chevy for some reason did not .... cost? complacency? .... heck this could be driven by the opportunity to sell more parts, different parts, different services, different connectors for diagnostic equipment and more .... someone will get to report it as revenue or cost savings.

By the time this news gets to us ... we worry about torque, HP, and brand name .... but I doubt very much that Indmar signed with Ford to make us feel better about HP .... it may allow them to reduce cost vs. PCM vs. Mercruiser vs. Ilmor ... and allow them to enter other markets.

I personally have always liked Indmar, and my Chevy based MCX ... but I also liked my 5.8 GT 351 in my 93 Prostar ....(Ford based)

Why did they do this ? because they felt it made business sense ... I agree with others on this board ... it probably will result in more part's confusion for owners, dealers will need another set of diagnostic gear, and dealer expertise "may" get diluted a bit .....

I guess my little Rinda Technologies Computer for MEFI-5 just became a dinosaur like my DD based 214 ..... I say blame Obama-care.

I'm sure you're correct, but let's not forget another factor that has not been mentioned yet:

Ford V8's sound better than Chebbies!:popcorn:

JPK

11-06-2013, 12:26 PM

Ford V8's sound better than Chebbies!:popcorn:

It must be subjective....

soacj

11-06-2013, 12:29 PM

It must be subjective....

No, it's unequivocal:D

scott023

11-06-2013, 12:29 PM

I'm sure you're correct, but let's not forget another factor that has not been mentioned yet:

Ford V8's sound better than Chebbies!:popcorn:

Only if you like your 8 to sound like a lawn mower...

soacj

11-06-2013, 12:35 PM

Only if you like your 8 to sound like a lawn mower...

Perhaps a seriously BAD@SS lawn mower!

soacj

11-06-2013, 12:57 PM

Here's video proof:

http://tinyurl.com/fordv8vschevyv8

Kyle

11-06-2013, 01:21 PM

It may be that it makes business sense or it may be some kind of back door deal between someone at indmar and someone at ford. Maybe someone from ford went to indmar and got an in. Maybe someone is screwing the higher up to get the contract. Maybe it's a scam. Maybe the rep from GM left and called up ford saying if you hire me, then I can get the indmar account bc my wife is the sales rep at indmar. Who knows. All I know is that people are going to make a nice chunk of cash with a contract deal. It won't matter what engine is in the boat. Eventually I'm sure I'll have to fix one.

On with the music vids :)

willyt

11-06-2013, 01:56 PM

I guess my little Rinda Technologies Computer for MEFI-5 just became a dinosaur like my DD based 214 ..... I say blame Obama-care.

hey, i love that little rinda technologies computer, and you can surf your 214, and i don't know many dinosaurs that can surf.

The only true reasons to do this for the consumer would be cost savings, engine parts and supplier simplification, better technology, or better economy, and they haven't justified moving suppliers for any of the above reasons. In fact, if you look at the above categories, their decision goes completely against all of them.

JimN

11-06-2013, 02:09 PM

It must be subjective....

No, they did a study. They also had a focus group to look into it and when it was inconclusive, they reached out to other people who were trusted by several area cheerleading squads.:rolleyes:

scott023

11-06-2013, 02:23 PM

Here's video proof:

http://tinyurl.com/fordv8vschevyv8

Rick Astey, Never going to give you up?

Kyle

11-06-2013, 02:26 PM

All I can say is I'm for it. I have no real answer why they are making the switch, but Ford never took government money to stay in business. I used to bleed GM too.

zsqure

11-06-2013, 02:34 PM

I'm sure you're correct, but let's not forget another factor that has not been mentioned yet:

Ford V8's sound better than Chebbies!:popcorn:
Yessir!!! There's no better sound than the 351 rumble of an inboard. And I was a bow tie guy for years.

thatsmrmastercraft

11-06-2013, 02:34 PM

I see it as an opportunity to offer both Chevy and Ford engine options. Seems to me that would broaden the sales market to the really brand loyal guys...........not that we have anyone in that category here. :rolleyes:

1redTA

11-06-2013, 02:41 PM

While there is nothing stock that sounds sweeter than a 5.0 mustang ( it's all firing order)

I'm going to bring Back "Groovy" in 2014.... All the Wake Boaters are gonna be using it again...watch!
:)

RadarDad

11-07-2013, 09:53 AM

Back in 1982 I had a Pleasurecraft Ford 351. I asked them why not GM? They told me that 15% of there motors where GM and they accounted for 90% of there problems. Next I got a 1988 ProStar 190 with a MasterCraft Ford 351. The only problems with either motor was carbs. Now I have a 2010 197TT with a Indmar GM 350. So far so good. In 2011 MasterCraft went to Ilmor and I hear good and bad. I do not think the engine block is the only thing you need to look at. The conversion and the hardware is the key. I am happy with my MCX motor and don't wish to change it just because a new model came out. I would say that money is the main reason they went back to Ford.

Well I agree a 6.2 isn't really a game changer, if you guys look at some of the crazy upgrades you can do to them, maybe you'd change your mind.. The aftermarket is pretty decent for the Ford 6.2 liter, from tuning to stroker motors.. Granted modding a boat engine isn't what it's all about, but just a thought.

duckguy

11-07-2013, 12:20 PM

Is it cheaper making the initial purchase? Id bet my left nut it is the opposite
Does it pull me up or give a steadier pull? Nope
Does it go faster? My current boat with an LY6 does 53 so that is quite unimportant if it did.
Does it consume way less fuel? Nope
and frankly the "raptor" branding does the same thing having a cadillac badge on the engine did out on the water-NADA