Alert readers will have noted that last night we took down our story about Scotland In Union‘s spreadsheet of all the various super-wealthy Dukes, Duchesses, Viscounts, Earls, Marquesses, Countesses, Sirs, Lords, Ladies, Colonels and Brigadiers who fund their “grassroots” anti-independence operation. (AGM pictured below.)

We believe we’re entitled under the law to run the article, and hope to have it back up soon, but frankly we don’t even want to think about the cost of calling a top media lawyer on a Sunday that’s also Hogmanay, so that might have to wait a day or two.

And anyway, it’s not even nearly the most interesting aspect of the affair.

When we were sent the document, we quizzed our source at length to check both the veracity and the legality of the document. We sought, and received, a categorical and unequivocal assurance that it had not been obtained through any unlawful actions, saying that we wouldn’t run the story if it had. And we pressed our source – who was and remains anonymous, and contacted us through a “burner” email account – for precise details of how it had come to be in their hands.

We did this because under the Data Protection Act (DPA) it can be an offence to receive confidential/sensitive information, unless doing so is in the public interest. We sought legal advice before we ran the article to confirm that was the case with this particular data, and were told by more than one lawyer that it was.

There are at least six obvious grounds for that belief:

(1) It’s in the general public interest that people know who is trying to influence politics in the UK while seeking to conceal their identity, eg by making donations £1 below the Electoral Commission’s declaration limit of £7,500. This was the case for numerous donors to SiU, who all handed over £7,499.

(2) It’s in the public interest for Yes supporters to know if politics in Scotland is being influenced by large injections of money from outside Scotland, particularly those with a vested financial interest in the status quo.

(3) It’s in the public interest for people considering donating to an organisation like Scotland In Union to know whether their data will be handled securely.

(5) It’s in the public interest to know whether Electoral Commission rules have been broken with regard to declaring large donations.

(6) It’s in the public interest to know whether an organisation declaring itself to be “grassroots” is nothing of the sort, and is in fact representing the interests of a small wealthy elite.

However, ultimately what every single lawyer in the world will tell you in pretty much any given situation is “This is what I think, but of course it’s all a matter of interpretation and there are no guarantees. That’ll be £5,000 please”.

We’ll get back to that in a minute. But what our interrogation of our source eventually revealed was that they were – or at least were claiming to be – a disgruntled senior Scotland In Union insider, either current or former, who was deeply unhappy with various aspects of the organisation’s management and direction.

(The most recent date we could find referred to on the document was 23 July 2017, so it could have come into our source’s hands any time in the last five months.)

And at this point we’d invite readers to imagine just how disgruntled someone from SiU would have to be to leak to Wings Over Scotland, of all things.

So we took steps to confirm the veracity of the document, as we detailed in yesterday’s article, until we were satisfied that (a) it was real, and (b) only someone in SiU could have known the location of the shared, unpassworded Google Drive it was stored on. And then we ran the story, having first meticulously redacted any information that could have been used to identify the donors.

Within a couple of hours, a furious response arrived from SiU’s lawyers – a specialist media-law firm we’d last encountered acting for the Scotsman when we sued it for defamation in 2014 and secured thousands of pounds in an out-of-court settlement.

The letter made all manner of dire threats, some serious and some farcical, but the key thing was that it removed any doubt about the veracity of the spreadsheet – confirming that it was real and only accessible to a handful of senior SiU employees.

And unless SiU’s lawyers were lying (which we’re sure they wouldn’t) then clearly that would make it all but certain that our source was indeed who they’d claimed to be – something we’d had no way of verifying up until that point.

By this stage we saw little benefit in spending thousands of pounds of precious Wings funds dragging a rival specialist lawyer off the ski-slopes and onto the phone late on a Saturday afternoon the day before Hogmanay in order to defend an article that had already been online for hours, when all their advice would amount to was what we already knew from the previous day – namely “there’s a clear public-interest defence, but it’s all a matter of interpretation so, meh, it’s pretty much your call. That’ll be £10,000 please, because it’s the holidays”.

So we pulled the article temporarily, pending some further advice in normal business hours. But that still leaves us with one big question: what is it about Scotland In Union that’s making its own members so incredibly unhappy that they’d resort in desperation to leaking to the officially vilest separatist site of them all?

And our source had quite a few things to say about that, although of course we can’t currently say whether any of it’s true.

– They said that ordinary supporters were angry that ex-Labour politicians like Pearson and Pamela Nash were being used to front a group bankrolled almost entirely by rich Tory landowners.

– And they claimed these reasons, rather than disagreements over Brexit, were behind the splitting off of the “Unity UK” splinter group, as well as suggesting that Unity UK may have been offering leaks about SiU to Scottish newspapers.

Yesterday we were also sent more SiU documents, entirely unsolicited and without any prior contact, from a different email account using the name “Data Dump”.

It appears that these documents – including the details of more fundraising events attended by Lords and Ladies and prominent Unionist politicians – have also been sent to other pro-independence sites including Bella Caledonia, who have speculated, apparently independently, that Unity UK’s David Clews (known mockingly in the indy community as “David Spokesperson”) might be behind it.

Scotland In Union appears to be breaking into unhappy fragments. It’s already seen an “intellectual” faction splinter off in the form of These Islands – who were swiftly caught up in a racism row over academic Nigel Biggar‘s views on the British Empire – and now they’ve got a somewhat, um, earthier offshoot in the form of UUK, ranting on Twitter about World War 2 and “the toff-elite” and offering Yes supporters out.

(“Data Dump”, whoever they may be, claimed to us that the Scottish Conservatives also hate Scotland In Union for “stealing their donations and their thunder”, and that Ruth Davidson “despises” SiU director Alistair Cameron. It’s certainly notable that they seem to have closer links to more Labour and Lib Dem politicians than Tory ones, with Adam Tomkins the only elected Tory we know of to have been seen in public with Cameron or SiU, compared to the Lib/Lab likes of Willie Rennie, Alistair Darling, Anas Sarwar, Robert Brown, Jackie Baillie, Pearson and Nash.)

So it may be that we’re seeing the last angry thrashings of this particular organisation. The media has increasingly distanced itself from the group in recent months, and its next accounts (which were due to be filed last month) should be fascinating. We’ll be keeping – within the limits of the law, of course – a close eye on them.

The usual shower of psycho of bastards who would do and say anything to line their own pockets with public money. Kill and maim anyone to line their pockets. Break the Law with impunity. Disgusting beyond belief. Pearson is just a crook. Demoted in the Police for criminal behaviour supported by criminal unionist politicians. Most of them should be in jail. Instead of troughing on the public purse. Wasting £Billions of taxpayers money. Enough is never enough for them.

Honest to goodness well done Rev Stu. The unionist using Wings to settle their disputes. The irony. It is just absolutely hilarious. These lot are a small insignificant bunch. No doubt the floodgates are bound to open to single opposition to their appalling behaviour. Expect more ‘leaks’in the future. Dig away moles.

The criminal Young voted out, comes back as deputy Lord Lieutenant. Crookett. Two of the biggest crooks in the City. They get vote out and still come back to haunt. Wasted £Billions of public money on grotesque projects of no value. No one wants and cut funding for essential services. Causing traffic chaos and ruining the local economy. Along with their unionists mates. A disgrace to democracy and the City. Pycho bastards. Not fit for public service. On a illegally changed electoral system no one wanted. To give unfair advantage. Public disgrace.

“The letter made all manner of dire threats, some serious and some farcical, but the key thing was that it removed any doubt about the veracity of the spreadsheet – confirming that it was real and only accessible to a handful of senior SiU employees. And unless SiU’s lawyers were lying (which we’re sure they wouldn’t) then clearly that would make it all but certain that our source was indeed who they’d claimed to be – something we’d had no way of verifying up until that point.”

Rev Stu on a roll again. Go on get the bastards. If ever there was sweet revenge for their duplicity. Bigots and racists. A cabel of crooks. Killing innocent people. Murdering bastards. Don’t get involved in the cross fire or greedy lawyers. Leave them to it.. Wasted space. This is what they are wasting £Billions of taxpayers money on.

Peace and love. They would not know the meaning of the words. Pycho bastards.

This is turning into the best Hogmanay show ever- almost better than Rikki Fulton.

Icing on the cake to know that (t)Ruthless is frustrated by them too –How could they give the Union such a bad name and cause all these rich donors to keep their hands in their pockets – Damn!!!

The trouble with a group of people like SiU is that they are fighting against Scotland because of their selfishness, their negativity and their bitterness and it looks like it is destroying them – Hell mend them.

Looks like it’s gonna be a Guid New Year and as they say in ‘The Broons’ :

“A very Happy New Year to all our Readers!” and especially to you Stu, thank you for all that you do for Scotland.

You gotta ask why the leak came to WOS and not one of the MSM puppets or even the national?
Could it be a double bluff, somebody trying to settle scores within SIU and trying to get WOS dragged into a costly legal battle? Interesting to see how it pans out, certainly seems to me that it is in the public interest to have that data in the public domain, however SIU have/had some wealthly backers who might want a punt on taking WOS to the cleaners. We are probably going to see what a true grassroutes organisation is capable off.

Money is their God eh? A yoons number one goal in life. Thought that during campaigning as that’s all I heard from dissenters at yes stalls. They are even taking ridiculous sums from their own kind! Greedy gits.

“ordinary supporters were angry that ex-Labour politicians like Pearson and Pamela Nash were being used to front a group bankrolled almost entirely by rich Tory landowners.”

I do feel a bit sorry for ordinary people in Scotland who, for whatever reason, still support the union. In the run up to the 2014 referendum, I was angry about the fact Better Together never debated. They took a haughty attitude that they were the UK government and establishment, they had the media on their side and anyone pro indy was lower than vermin, to be called names like Cybernat, Natz etc and not engaged with. As a result, there were yes events – genuine grassroots, church halls etc – and there were no events – glitzy, invited audiences, media covered. But scant few yes/no debates ordinary people could get involved in.

Last time around, that hurt the yes cause as well as, more critically, harming the democratic debate that should have been happening in Scotland and handing large swathes of it to the London-based media to simply denigrate or ignore one side of it.

This time around, I suspect it’ll be those on the no side in Scotland who suffer most, if the media driven astroturfing campaign so far is anything to go by. These Lords, Ladies and wealthy press barons are the people speaking for the ordinary no voter on the streets of Scotland, and denying them their own voice, as well as denying Scotland a proper debate.

In-fighting, fragmenting, groups each claiming the purest ideology … I thought that was the preserve of the far left. I also thought it was the behaviour of those who knew they couldn’t win and were getting their kicks squabbling among themselves.

And now we see right wing Unionists appearing to act the same way!

I don’t think SiU were ever going to be our main opposition in IndyRef2, there was always an element of hamfistery about them. Perhaps what we are seeing is a ‘night of the long knives’ where the Right is getting its house in order by destroying their own weak elements. That’s more like right wing behaviour!

Ah, so the plot thickens, or should that be the plotters are so thick. Absolutely hilarious. Fair cheered me up yesterday and today. I think that maybe the yoons are in a fair auld pickle. Good enough for them. Who the Sam Hill gave these clowns from outside OUR country, the right to decide what will happen to us, or our independence. Money talks a’ doon the centuries richt enough.It’s time we stood up and decided for oorsels.

Well thank you Rev Stu, what a great job that you carry out on our behalf. You are worth your weight in gold sir, and you should take your place in history when the script is eventually written, and we are an independent country standing proud in the world.

Oh well, I’d better go and get on with cooking the meat for tomorrows steak pie. This article will keep me entertained for the rest of the day. Nae wunner the wean that is 2018 is trying to crawl away. “Somebody” said last Ne’erday that 2017 was going to be a quiet year didn’t they. Well if this was quiet, 2018 is going to be one hell of a ride. Buckle up everybody.

In case I don’t make it back later, a guid new year tae a’ the wingers, and especially the Rev. Lang may yer lum reek son, and watch yer back.

Stew, why don’t you contact “The Colonel ” direct?, she can’t help it, she just can’t not stop talking, and as a result, will spill the beans without even realising it.
She must be in the know, regarding SiU, how far back do they go?, far enough to be the source of “The Colonel’s ” pre knowledge of the postal votes ?.

Time to…sort of…throw in the towel guys…looks like you didn’t look after the pennies so the pounds are off in search of astroturf pastures new.
Alternatively, perhaps it’s not too late to see if those Nigerian generals’ wives might help out with a gold bar or two?

I guess the establishment will go for an Injunction to prevent further publication.

I think their argument will be that legally their donations under £7500 allow for anonymity within the electoral commissions statutory requirements. Therefore that anonymity should be protected. (Hate to admit this, but they may have a point).

Likewise, as subjects of the UK (which Scotland voted to remain within) their English domestic residence, will be brushed aside as irelevant.

Someone made a very good suggestion yesterday, of putting up a map with all the postcode hits of approximate locations of donors. This would be very hard hitting visually, and get round the above very nicely. Likewise number of Lords, Sirs, etc, without naming names.

The wheels of SiU may well be falling off, but that will not last, the real work and decisions are likely being made elsewhere… like getting the Beeb to donate reporters to all the local rags, you can bet this will ‘trickle’ down to local newsletters also.

It is nice to have conformation of something long suspected. But I’m not sure it moves the no voters over to yes in any great numbers.

It could prove to be a hornets nets poked, and a very time consuming management exercise thereafter.

Having said that, last time I researched, Injunctions appeared to cost something in the region of £200,000 a pop, and only last 1 or 2 years before having to be re-applied for. Hmmm, can’t see the Lairds and Lardies liking coughing up for that in order to sort out this level of incompetence.

I still think it brilliant though, and love the fact you’ve put it out there.

I hear there are several productions of “Macbeth” planned in 2018. The Royal Shakespeare Co, The National (of England) Theatre, the Royal Opera Co. and another more arty co. whose name I forget.

It’s a tale of rampant ambition and greed leading to implosion and self destruction. Sums up UK 2017.
Farewell to all that. Chris Cairns’ toddler on the run has the right idea.
Congratulations Stu for a riveting commentary through 2017. Good to end it on a high note.

Good to see my Slovene girlfriend right in the SiU thick of it, taking a very big Data Dump.

Letters for the UKOK reign in Scotland, all the way from Ljubljana, Slovenia/Glesga uni senior common room. Its almost guaranteed to get you UKOK knighthood too, or whatever they call the knighthood they give girls, a Princesshood?

Lenny Hartley says:
31 December, 2017 at 10:59 amYou gotta ask why the leak came to WOS and not one of the MSM puppets or even the national?

I think the reason this pile of SiU info went to Stu was primarily down to the fact that the MSM have been kissing the SiU’s earse ever since they started Lenny and the “sender” probably thought, rightly in my view, the MSM would do nothing with it.

As for the info being sent to the National only time will tell but my guess is that the “sender” decided just to ignore the MSM completely even those very few papers that support independence.

There is of course the other more likely reason, again only my view, which is that Wings is widely known to be pro independence and hated throughout the unionist camp and that by sending the info to Wings the “sender” was giving the unionist camp in general and SiU in particular a damned good kicking over how they operate.

So SiU is dying, either by incompetence driven melt down, or by a typical right wing putsch.

Perhaps we should consider what might replace it? IMO we are much more likely to see the big money social media manipulations which allegedly won for Trump and Leave. Or dark money, DUP style, being ‘spirited from nowhere’ into targeted advertising,

At least SiU appeared to be squandering the toff’s money. If used by a more secretive and sophisticated entity, it might be more of a threat to the democratic process.

Indeed they are nasty people. One of their board members was the commander of ALL forces in N Ireland and would have been privy to the information re the plan to assassinate Charles Haughey.

He has links therefore with Loyalist murder gangs, and that is a concern. The Glennane Gang and what happened to the likes of the Miami Showband should be a clear warning to us all that the British State mechanisms have no restrictions on what they will do should they consider the need arises. They work hand in glove with State sponsored murderers and terrorists.

Nice one Stu, you’ve got them rattled.
Could it be that the “elite!?” land owners have privy to “the control” of Scotland’s last natural resources, i.e wind and water.
Who knows what the Empire have in mind for the natural wilderness of our beautiful country. Could it be the controlling “elite!?” will have financial gain regarding “this water runs through my land” etc.
The wind energy empire seems to have ground to a halt ( again greedy land owners maybe waiting to see if the Indy Ref threat finally dies?) you could also include the natural water course.
There has to be another reason for the select few to hold control over the mass wilderness of Scotland it cannot be just shooting and fishing, can it? (although they get subsides from the EU for acreage in farming) not sure about wilderness.

Their biggest fear is “wee Jimmy and wee Maggie” having a say in running the future of Scotland because in the Elites eyes the little person squanders, has no morals and doesn’t know how to manage finances.
Us in the “real world” know who the real squanderers are the “Tristrans and Tabithas” who happily pay £1000s on a bottle of bubbly and get a pat on the back for simply being ar*eholes.
I hate to use the “elite” description because the ruling masses are worse than the rest of us.
Just had 3 days away supposedly skiing “nae snaw” but walked miles across what has to be one of the most beautiful places on earth,
“Scotland in winter. STUNNING”

David Clews was my instant reaction to the leak, but doesn’t quite fit the profile, so there’s an existing leak – and probably more than one. So they’re riddled with holes, and like a riddle, don’t hold much water.

Grattan a Labour supporter has been letter writing for years and years. Behaviour which could be looked in a obsessive. A flawed personality. For those unfortunate enough to waste their money on lying newspapers. Repeating the same,boring monalogue,which does not hold up to any thought of rationality. Making claims which are obviously absurd. Usually ignored by many people. ‘That nutter is off again.’ Just an annoyance. The white noise.

There used to be a person letter writing in the Scotsman. Before they keeled over? Malthus theory of feckless women headed single families with children. The cause of all misdeanmeanors. On and on relentless. Must have been frustrated. Obviously, oblivious to the fact and never heard of the invention of the Pill and free contraception. Totally irrational facts. So out of kilter with reality. Or the demographics of falling population all over Europe and most advanced capitalist societies. Embarrassing to the readership of the paper.

There are just as many rich and prominent people support the SNP and Independence and donate. Increasing? Along with a marvellous swell of dedicated people and activists. Including a majority? of the elderly or retired. Who have the time to campaign. Many busy people have less time for activism. Just trying to make ends meet.

Could this be a dirty tricks attempt to close down WOS….by tying you up in legal crap and eventually causing you to close down due to the cost of said legal crap?? Call me paranoid, but I wouldn’t put anything past them.
For the record, I’d be happy to crowd-fund any legal fees in the name of “freedom of speech” after all…the msm cry “freedom of the press” at the least wee suggestion of impropriety.

Dangerous times indeed – consider how many documents have recently been announced as having gone AWOL.

The Zinoviev letter, documents about the Troubles and Scottish matters are all hugely relevant and important pieces of recent historical Archive material- there is a massive threat to democracy as we know it ( see Catalonia) and the media is virtually silent, yet it will come to bite them on the bum quite soon if they don’t start some sort of resistance PDQ. We have now an effective gagging of true news in the UK.
We have a government which gives gongs to it’s own cringing Politicians and ignores the ‘heroes’ of Grenfell and the Manchester/London bombings;
rewards ineptness and despises truth;
punishes the weak and infirm and rewards the rich;
creates division, bigotry and xenophobia and is destroying the NHS.

We have to make sure this news gets out to as many people as possible, so tok to your friends, family and enemies and tell them about this website.
One look and they’ll be hooked!

Taking things at face value: many of the business community backed NO because they feared indy would mean Scotland being out of the Single Market, so damaging their profits.

They are also almost to a man / woman Tories or Red Tories.

Within the Tories and NO supporters there is the money is everything priority camp v British nationalism priority competing factions. That’s creating huge tensions.

The money first people are largely for British nationalism, but not if it’s going to cause serious damage to their bank balances.

So, what’s more damaging to the bank balances:

indy Scotland in the EU Single Market v the UK outside the EU Single Market?

That’s a hard one to answer, as it’s estimates, predictions. Indy Scotland could be the best option.

That’s tensions that could be exploited to implode the ( money first) business people bankrolling of any No campaign.

Leaving the xenophobes / BritNats / Racists / etc to back NO. Of course, that’s still a lot of people and money.

The SNP’s strategy of trying to keep the UK in the Single Market may cheese off the extremists, but if successful would remove the tensions from the largest proportion of funders who put business first ahead of their ideologies and prejudices.

Basically, it would encourage the more sensible of the business community ( which seems to be the largest proportion) to continue to fully support the Union, as it would GUARANTEE uninterrupted and continuing access to the Single Market compared to indy Scotland that doesn’t yet exist.

The Unionist extremist Brexiteers have messed it up for those who backed NO to remain in the Single Market and they are beginning to fight amongst themselves like rats in a sack.

I cannot accept it is sensible for the SNP to seek to remove that tension and make the Union the status quo option again and thus the safer option.

Unless, the SNP are now serving the Unionist business community – and the Union’s interests -first and foremost and hope to get more funding to support the devolutionist SNP as the reward.

Comment from the article
“whoever they may be, claimed to us that the Scottish Conservatives also hate Scotland In Union for “stealing their donations and their thunder”, and that Ruth Davidson “despises” SiU director Alistair Cameron.”

Hmmm, as we have seen with Ruthie she keeps some rabid company and that was well exposed, so a negative for her for others to see her true self.
So, would it be beyond imagination that the comment may have or could have had the thumbs up from Ruthie in order to cover her support for these kind of Yoon groups?

Perhaps in her mind it may be a good move, in order for to hide just how extreme she is, judging from her known “friends” anyway.
Am I wrong in my thinking?

I seem to have vague recollections that SiU wanted to be the positive, friendly face of Unionism. Cuddle that lot and you will never play the guitar again (credit to Basil Fawlty).

Nice to see that they appear to be reverting back to their more deranged U KOK default setting (1950s street parties with Union Flags, pictures of the Queen and a rather disturbing fetish for Commando comics.)

However, the article quotes Sillars’ reply extensively. Sillars thinks it is a honey trap to woo back Yes voting ex-Labour supporters.

That would be a mistakes as Corbyn will not win in England and another Tory gov. would be a disaster for Scotland; so basically the only safe path is vote SNP/indie, although he can’t quite bring itself to say that.

Take care Stu, thoughts with you at this time of year.
I have said it often that British Empire has many times thrown all at a cause in last days of holding on to a country it conqoured.
We may yet rid Scotland of the rot.
A guid nu year tae one an au here.

Well done.
Just shows- even a Unionist doesn’t trust Unionist papers to run a news worthy story.

How about the BBC, stv, ITV, Channel 4, Sky?

Looks like in the next week or two we will have to tune into foreign channels.

Still I commented yesterday that since spanner was responding to stu he may NOT have been aware at that stage that it was his own kind fighting amongst themselves that allowed the public interest story into the public domain.

Couldn’t Ruth Davidson just control her troops? Problems with sitting in a tank it makes you feel snug and secure while pointing in 1 direction. Evan a spanner canny help.

Have a great Hogmanay WoS (no New Years Eve in my family) and a guid Nereday.

Well done Wings, what a scoop, we have all known about the tactics Scotland in union used, but had no proof to pursue. Now surly these band of merry lords and ladies must dissociate from this group and withdraw any future funding. Or reap the wrath of some very disappointed and disgusted yessers.

The MSM has also got to answer, why haven’t vetted certain literature sent for publication many times over.

I’m old enough to remember when news and investigative journalism like this used to be carried out by newspapers and occasionally TV. You know, the ‘professionals’ who now write about Celebrity Big Brother.

The House of Lords should have be abolished years ago. An unelected cabel with absolutely no power except of delay. The usual waste of £Billions of taxpayers money. On the usual cabel of useless incompetents already well heeled trioughing on public money. A public disgrace of corruption and privilege. The ‘honours’ system in dishonourable. Many of them are tax evaders living abroad. Non resdents.. A mockery. The usual action of an unelected privilege and elite. Unfair, unequal and unnecessary.

The ‘Cyberleakers’ are fighting like rats in a sack, with the potential for it all to escalate into a full scale leak war!

All of it fought on ‘Battlefield Bath’

Why Wings?
well it just goes to show that even those at the top of the Unionist tree know full well, that the Rev is the only journalist in Scottish Politics with the integrity and courage to print this kind of stuff.

And more importantly…Much More importantly, it hints to us all that they know that it is far more likely to be paid attention to by the people who read Wings, no matter their political outlook (We see you peeking in Duncan 🙂

The people who read ‘The Daily Red Coat’ or ‘The Royal Heraldry’ will often skip over the political stories (except for the headline) and go straight to the latest gang murder, the ‘perfect tweet response’ by some washed up celebrity, or some 12 year old ‘wonder kid’ who Rangers are alleged to be thinking of signing as a youth player!

The people who read Wings are far more likely to be politically aware, so if you want your leak to have impact in Scotland, then it makes sense to leak it to the Rev.

To put it another way, Think about the recent Labour Leadership Contest. It was striking that within hours of the contenders being announced, the leaks against Anas Sarwar began.

Within days their was a full-scale smear campaign being waged against him, that got so bad that his dad even had to fly into Scotland fro Pakistan, in an attempt to protect his boy.

So what was Anas doing all this time? You can bet he was trying to ‘counter leak’ (it’s the Labour way) but how many damaging leaks do you remember against Richard Leonard?

That’s right..None!

As Anas discovered, when it comes to the MSM in Scotland, you will get any old lie or smear against the SNP printed if you’re a Labour MP/MSP, but if you try to smear a ‘favoured’ Labour MSP?

Forget It, it aint happening!

If Anas had wanted to fight back, he should’ve gone to Wings with his leaks, maybe a step too far for a Labour leadership candidate at this time, but I wouldn’t be to surprised if this leaks has opened the eyes of a lot of politicians/activists or potential whistle-blowers, that if you want a story, or scandal to ‘get out there’ and don’t want it filtered through some weak editors preferred political stance (or rather, that of their papers wealthy owners)

The only people of any intregrity and ultraism of fairness and equality are the ones who never get a mention. They refused a dishonourable ‘honour’. A farce of privilege and ill gained totally discredited political system.

I love a good story with a twist. Lets hope the twist turns out to be open publication of the data and a lot of in-fighting in the Yoon ranks at worst with criminal charges at best. Happy new Year to all xxx

More
The BBC is to spend £8 million a year on 144 ‘Local Democracy Reporters’. 90% of them will be employees of three large corporations. These three reported profits in 2016 of £198.8 million. They are not local. They are not democracies. #mediareform

2:15 pm – 30 Dec 2017

Good rt on WoS twitter.

Pacific quay yoon culture’s as tight as a ducks arse. Imagine what the gimps in the giant mausoleum of yoon would do with this leaking:D

Glad to hear that wings over scotland consults several solicitors for their interpretation and advice on legal matters because make no mistake about it Englands Westminster has support in all areas of the world and it will use dirty tricks to keep control of Scotland just make sure you check and double check everything and don’t trust anyone completely ,it is often those you trust that betray you especially where money and power are at stake.There are Scots who will betray Scotland it’s amazing how many of them like to be active but only if anonymous or done remotely , you never see them debate or knock on doors ,they sneak about during the day and pop leaflets through your letterbox when you are not in or they write letters to newspapers many also pretend to be socialists but are in fact outright Tories.
Do not ever believe you are being paranoid because you are not the dirty tricks lies and sneaky British nationalist behaviour knows no bounds and will do anything and I do mean anything to keep control of Scotland .
Never give up ,stand firm , stand together, face them off , be strong we will have to be strong,we will win , Scottish independence is coming.

What isn’t funny, and infinitely more dangerous is the constancy and mendacity of the media which gives it all constant support, a credible platform, and oxygen of publicity.

The Unionists are still seeking their Holy Trinity:

1. Favourable and wholly uncritical media monopoly, check!

2. Political mandate. Well, Davidson couldn’t win, but seems serviceable enough to provide the “Scottish” tagline for UK propaganda, so that’s a check!…kinda. No to a second Referendum!!

But where Unionism comes really unstuck is 3. Grassroots infrastructure that cannot be faked. What they’ve got is a grassroots infrastructure which cannot fill a venue, and appeals to nobody except the controversial fruit loops, sectarians and BritNat knuckledraggers of the Orange Order, and the really dodgy ones who aren’t ashamed of being Tories.

“One of their board members was the commander of ALL forces in N Ireland and would have been privy to the information re the plan to assassinate Charles Haughey. He has links therefore with Loyalist murder gangs”

They would be doorstepping said former commander of UK Forces NI with a camera crew and asking him if he knew and was he complicit in these state sponsored assassinations.

Just imagine for a minute this was Russia’s KGB/FSB not the UKs MI5 24hr rolling news for days, front page headlines.

The fact they don’t and that there is radio/TV silence on this story once again shows we have no news media worthy of the name only State Supporting Propaganda.

Sorry, had to watch the other fireworks down under on a bridge I have also climbed, although, I have not reached the top of this one yet.
Stu, this is one of many articles I have read all through, I usually get the gist of what you are getting at quick.
Glad other wingers have got drops for their eyes, we have to keep them in good health.

Apologies for going O/T but JWT, at 1.25pm, mentioning Commando comics, and the headline of this article – “Tool of the Union” reminded me of George Galloway on RT last night. Interviewing Mark Millar of comics fame. Galloway expressed his displeasure at “Catholics” daring to vote for the SNP. Bad form George! Decent folk like us here and unlike Labour in Scotland, try to keep religion out of politics and your claims to be a “socialist” are not matched by your allegiances, actions or rhetoric and can you tell me when there will ever be a Socialist government in the UK? Pity a man who is equipped with the brain that dismantled the US Senate can’t see beyond his own ego and welfare and join the growing ranks of people who want decent government in an Independent Scotland!

SiU might be a bunch of clowns but British nationalism is no joke. It is the articulation of blood-and-soil nationalism, born largely out of late-Victorian degeneration theory.

THE ANATOMY OF FASCISM

….New forms of anxiety appeared with the twentieth century, to which fascism soon promised remedies. Looking for fears, indeed, may be a more fruitful research strategy than a literal-minded quest for thinkers who “created” fascism. One such fear was the collapse of community under the corrosive influences of free individualism. Rousseau had already worried about this before the French Revolution.35 In the mid-nineteenth century and after, the fear of social disintegration was mostly a conservative concern. After the turbulent 1840s in England, the Victorian polemicist Thomas Carlyle worried about what force would discipline “the masses, full of beer and nonsense,” as more and more of them received the right to vote.36 Carlyle’s remedy was a militarized welfare dictatorship, administered not by the existing ruling class but by a new elite composed of selfless captains of industry and other natural heroes of the order of Oliver Cromwell and Frederick the Great. The Nazis later claimed Carlyle as a forerunner.37

Fear of the collapse of community solidarity intensified in Europe toward the end of the nineteenth century, under the impact of urban sprawl, industrial conflict, and immigration. Diagnosing the ills of community was a central project in the creation of the new discipline of sociology. Émile Durkheim (1858–1917), the first French holder of a chair in sociology, diagnosed modern society as afflicted with “anomie”—the purposeless drift of people without social ties—and reflected on the replacement of “organic” solidarity, the ties formed within natural communities of villages, families, and churches, with “mechanical” solidarity, the ties formed by modern propaganda and media such as fascists (and advertisers) would later perfect. The German sociologist Ferdinand Tönnies regretted the supplanting of traditional, natural societies (Gemeinschaften) by more differentiated and impersonal modern societies (Gesellschaften) in Gemeinschaft und Gesellschaft (1887), and the Nazis borrowed his term for the “people’s community” (Volksgemeinschaft) they wanted to form. The early-twentieth-century sociologists Vilfredo Pareto, Gaetano Mosca, and Roberto Michels contributed more directly to fascist ideas.38

….But the intellectual and cultural changes that helped make fascism conceivable and therefore possible were both broader and narrower, simultaneously, than the fascist phenomenon itself. On the one hand, many people shared in those currents without ever becoming fascist supporters. The British novelist D. H. Lawrence sounded like an early fascist in a letter to a friend, twenty months before the outbreak of World War I: “My great religion is a belief in the blood, the flesh, as being wiser than the intellect. We can go wrong in our minds, but what our blood feels and believes and says is always true.”58 But when the war began, Lawrence, married to a German woman, was horrified by the killing and declared himself a conscientious objector.

On the other hand, fascism became fully developed only after its practitioners had quietly closed their eyes to some of their early principles, in the effort to enter the coalitions necessary for power. Once in power, as we will see, fascists played down, marginalized, or even discarded some of the intellectual currents that had helped open the way.

To focus only on the educated carriers of intellect and culture in the search for fascist roots, furthermore, is to miss the most important register: subterranean passions and emotions. A nebula of attitudes was taking shape, and no one thinker ever put together a total philosophical system to support fascism. Even scholars who specialize in the quest for fascism’s intellectual and cultural origins, such as George Mosse, declare that the establishment of a “mood” is more important than “the search for some individual precursors.”59 In that sense too, fascism is more plausibly linked to a set of “mobilizing passions” that shape fascist action than to a consistent and fully articulated philosophy. At bottom is a passionate nationalism. Allied to it is a conspiratorial and Manichean view of history as a battle between the good and evil camps, between the pure and the corrupt, in which one’s own community or nation has been the victim. In this Darwinian narrative, the chosen people have been weakened by political parties, social classes, unassimilable minorities, spoiled rentiers, and rationalist thinkers who lack the necessary sense of community. These “mobilizing passions,” mostly taken for granted and not always overtly argued as intellectual propositions, form the emotional lava that set fascism’s foundations:

• a sense of overwhelming crisis beyond the reach of any traditional solutions;

• the primacy of the group, toward which one has duties superior to every right, whether individual or universal, and the subordination of the individual to it;

• the belief that one’s group is a victim, a sentiment that justifies any action, without legal or moral limits, against its enemies, both internal and external;60

• dread of the group’s decline under the corrosive effects of individualistic liberalism, class conflict, and alien influences;

• the need for closer integration of a purer community, by consent if possible, or by exclusionary violence if necessary;

• the need for authority by natural leaders (always male), culminating in a national chief who alone is capable of incarnating the group’s destiny;

• the superiority of the leader’s instincts over abstract and universal reason;

• the beauty of violence and the efficacy of will, when they are devoted to the group’s success;

• the right of the chosen people to dominate others without restraint from any kind of human or divine law, right being decided by the sole criterion of the group’s prowess within a Darwinian struggle.

The “mobilizing passions” of fascism are hard to treat historically, for many of them are as old as Cain. It seems incontestable, however, that the fevers of increased nationalism before World War I and the passions aroused by that war sharpened them. Fascism was an affair of the gut more than of the brain, and a study of the roots of fascism that treats only the thinkers and the writers misses the most powerful impulses of all….

However, what was of great note Stuart, was your mentioning of ‘Scotland In Union appears to be breaking into unhappy fragments’. This seems to be following the pattern of independence groups, where some of them don’t quite see eye-to-eye with others over policy or agenda. It was probably inevitable that it would happen to other other side also! I can only assume that there are some seriously radical unionist groups out there that are alarming the more ‘moderate’ set. One can only guess what some of them are advocating (shutting down Holyrood; jailing people for perceived treasonous statements such as folk wanting to end the Union; wanting to raise anti-immigrant behaviour to new levels; endorsing hardcore Protestant beliefs as perceived in Western Belfast).

I suppose one perceived avenue to follow with this news is finding out what MP’s and MSP’s are advocating the smaller cells once they do breakaway from SiU …especially if they advocate serious anti-democracy policies. We know Ruthie was caught with Bertie Armstrong as mentioned on this site (https://wingsoverscotland.com/ruths-fishy-friends/), but as the main group splinters into smaller factions …just who will our politicians follow and endorse?

Easy does it, Rev. You got this material because you’re trusted, straight, honest and sagacious.

There are big, big questions hanging in the air since last election, not least of which:

1. Why did up to 15 police forces in England choose not to pursue convictions of the Tory party for serious electoral finance fraud the time before last.

2. For our summer 2017 election, how on earth did the unionist parties have so much money to spend on so many leaflets that seemed to be sent in a co-ordinated way to directly cut into the snp. It almost looked like a one party of everybody else against the snp. Coordinated.

3. What can £300,000 do to our electoral process, if well spent. And how can we guard against the loss of integrity in the process when the electoral commission is at least toothless, and may be complicit in its degradation.

I see Michael White isn’t impressed, he seems to dislike all independence supporters (almost 50% of people in Scotland according to latest poll), He refers the Rev to Jane Austen of the Heather, I presume that makes White the McGonagall of the press.

Just for a wee bit of light relief here peeps but according to Bloomberg there are about five Tory ministers sitting on seats with extremely shoogly legs. They got this information from the Sunday Times apparently. The ministers who are sitting on the shoogly seats apparently are:

Absolutely disgraceful that the so called media are blanking such incredibly important news, but then what happened with the ‘paradise papers’. Nothing, that was swept swiftly under the carpet.

This episode just goes to show that the rich want to keep that gravy train running from Scotland into their dirty greedy pockets. Well that is not what Scotland needs and the people know it, which is why the yoons are terrified their gravy train is in fact already derailing.

Some ridiculous hypocritical LibDem chancers. Obviously think people in Scotland can’t read reg plates. Some with irrelevant letters after their names.The annoyance white noise in the background. Police get great value from one? specialist vehicle.

Thought the Rev might like reading this short historical story not much has changed 🙂

ONE morning in December 1824, the Duke of Wellington received an unpleasant letter. ‘My Lord Duke,’ it began, ‘in Harriette Wilson’s Memoirs, which I am about to publish, are various anecdotes of Your Grace which it would be most desirable to withhold, at least such is my opinion. I have stopped the Press for the moment, but as the publication will take place next week, little delay can necessarily take place.’

The letter, signed by one Joseph Stockdale, a pornographer and scandal-monger, was a naked attempt at blackmail. The Duke was a field marshal, cabinet minister, national hero, husband and father, while Harriette Wilson was a famous London courtesan past her prime, then living in exile in Paris. Wellington was being asked to pay money to be left out of her memoirs.

His response is famous: ‘Publish and be damned’ And they did. Through 1825 the memoirs appeared by instalments, each with a dramatis personae listing the notables named in order of rank – ‘Dukes: Argyll, Beaufort, de Guiche, Leinster . . .’ and so on through earls and viscounts down to humble esquires.

Can you imagine none of them trusting each other? Not knowing which way to turn. The leaks. Accusing each other. The dams break. The wall comes tumbling down. On even more illegal unionist behaviour. Even more down, more gone. Even more hits the dust. Most of pycho bastards should just pay their taxes. It would be quicker, easier and cheaper. The SNP Scottish Gov is and will sort it out. To the majority satisfaction.

Caution. An old trick of the secret squirrels. Give the enemy something true and verifiable, sacrifice a few of the expendable.
Distract from what is going on elsewhere.
Don’t take the eye of the ball for a moment.

Yoongate, Poshgate, we need a name, everything else gets one,
the folk who think they’re deserving of being the ruling classes must be really really miffed by all this stuff, butlers will be suffering raised voices and tweeny maids will be getting rough treatment up at the big hooses dont you know

Dr Jim says:
31 December, 2017 at 2:58 pmYoongate, Poshgate, we need a name, everything else gets one,
the folk who think they’re deserving of being the ruling classes must be really really miffed by all this stuff, butlers will be suffering raised voices and tweeny maids will be getting rough treatment up at the big hooses dont you know

Well what can we say other than ha, ha, ha? Another clear sign that Stuart Campbell is considered to be the number ONE investigative journalist in the UK. The only journalist with the intelligence, integrity and backbone to follow this through and with a following of hundreds of thousands of people here and abroad the ideal person to disseminate such information.

I’m not religious, more spiritually inclined, but I’d say that we have God (all of the Gods, lol) on our side, as the totally corrupt Unionist networks with their ‘might is right’ attitude are now imploding.

It’s Hogmanay. Let’s all focus on the positives. Post some enlightening articles, music, facts about the independence movement / the SNP and give a mention to great Scots, past and present. Give food for thought to newcomers on here. Remind them of how wonderful Scotland is in it’s own right, not as part of this disfunctional Union.

I’ll start by thanking people like Stu, Chris and Nana for the fantastic work that they do and wish you ALL great health, wealth, inner contentment and happiness in 2018. And for anyone facing major challenges and feeling down don’t forget that with Independence your situation will surely improve. At the very least we’ll get the DWP off of your back. Like most people on here I pray for peace on earth followed by Independence for Scotland in the very near future. We may not achieve the former, but will surely achieve the latter.

Music: With around 49% support for Independence right now just watch it rising! Vote for Independence and if you can’t do so, because you don’t live in Scotland, please support us by posting on here and / or donating to Wings and the SNP. Every penny will help combat the Unionists (mis) use of ‘dark’ money. Thank you.

Has anyone suggest that the leaks might have been made because someone has crossed the floor to embrace independence has the best way forward? That someone may have become disillusioned when they see the unscrupulous nature and make-up of the NO side?

This volume offers a unique contribution to both postcolonial studies and Austen scholarship by *examining the texts to illumine nineteenth century attitudes to colonialism and the expanding Empire *revealing a new range of interpretations of Austen’s work, each shaped by the critic’s particular context *exploring the ways in which the study of Austen’s novels raises fresh issues for post-colonial criticism. Bringing together work by highly-respected critics from four continents and a range of disciplines, this newly paperbacked volume allows sometimes surprising and always fascinating new insights into some of the most frequently studied – and best loved – novels in the English language.

Excerpt

This collection of essays on Jane Austen grows out of and exemplifies recent developments specifically in Austen criticism, but also in the institution of English literary studies as such, and more generally in contemporary cultural studies. The focus of the collection is on Austen viewed in light of postcolonial theory, as well as, reciprocally, upon postcolonial theory viewed in light of a certain ‘Austen’. But first a preliminary note here about this project – about its conditions of possibility, and about its participants, intended to clarify ‘why us?’, in relation to Austen – equally, a question of ‘why Austen?’

We, the editors of this volume, have worked so far largely in that growing and amorphous territory of contemporary ‘cultural studies’ that includes gender, postcolonial and regional (or ‘area’) studies. Yet our early training, up to and including graduate and doctoral studies, and even some first publications, were in British literary studies conventionally defined. Jane Austen, placed at the juncture of our different backgrounds in the eighteenth- and nineteenth-century literatures of Britain, was of interest to us both as a woman writer appearing in a key period of European political and imperial history, 1790 to 1820, and as the subject of several significant and remarkably interesting feminist, Marxist and postcolonial critical texts in recent times. The resurgence of popular interest in her work, as testified by a number of films in the 1990s based on her novels, was also an intriguing development in the phenomenon of ‘Austen’.

If the entry of an Indian and a Korean woman into English literary studies is a function of our historical situation (a history explored at greater length in some of the essays in this volume), then our drift away into other fields of work was also enabled by the recent hospitality of disciplinary ‘English’ to these cognate academic areas. Admittedly the volume began as something of a lark, as a response to the challenge of breaking into a field that is suspicious of both the credentials and the politics of non-native, non-English-speaking critics. The establishment of English literary studies offers us legitimacy more grudgingly than do the area studies, gender, or postcolonial studies where we know our place, so to speak. But more seriously, our decision to ‘return’ to English literary studies was impelled by the desire to make sense of our intellectual histories and our association.

Our trajectories of travel brought us as graduate students to the United States. Within this broad familiar narrative, there are, inevitably, significant differences

In the episode of “Big Bang Theory”, broadcast on 30th November 2017, Sheldon Cooper, listing famous scientists, mentioned Einstein, Tesla and James Bowman Lindsay. He demonstrated electric light 40 years before Edison.

TheItalianJob
All the best to yourself and all those who’s ambition is uplifting, so that obviously excludes the “green ink gang”. Unsurprisingly, I don’t feel particularly challenged in not defending social inclusion, where this bunch of over-privileged a-holes are concerned.

The cross-party group has a reputation for lavish events and elite backers, raising around £350,000 from a £250-a-plate dinner at Edinburgh’s Prestonfield House Hotel in 2016.
With guide prices up to £12,500, auction lots on the night included stays at private safari lodges in Kenya and Botswana, French and Swiss skiing chalets, a polo festival in India, and a plethora of deer stalking, fishing and grouse shooting events in the Highlands.
There was also a £100-a-ticket raffle to win a Mini Cooper convertible, a VIP tour of the Rangers FC training facility and seats in a director’s box courtesy of Paul Murray, and a signed copy of the JK Rowling novel A Casual Vacancy.

As Stu says…they didn’t even contact him for a quote in that Herald story. And GA Ponsonby also notes…this is not the ‘real’ story, they’ve chosen ‘security breach’ rather than report the facts of the actual leaking. Fucking sham journalism in Scotland at its best…who ever wrote that pile of shit should…och…y’know fuck off.

Well, I’ve looked at some of the blogs and twitter feeds and I think there’s a few suspects. Some are clearly ready to turn to Indy given the right circumstances, and some are just too extreme to be genuine. I think they’re riddled with plants and are already soiling themselves.

….The British extreme Right also mobilized resentment against colonial immigration, starting in the 1950s with the White Defence League. Veterans of interwar fascism played leading roles in this and the National Socialist Movement, dissolved for paramilitary activity in the 1960s. They were supplanted in 1967 by the National Front, a blatantly racialist anti-immigrant formation. The British radical Right was much more openly extreme than most continental parties, and consequently had almost no electoral success. But it forced the traditional parties to take the immigrant issue seriously, and restrict entry into Britain for the populations of the former colonies.19

It could be expected that legacy neofascisms would diminish as Hitler’s and Mussolini’s generation, mostly born in the 1880s, and the generation formed by them, mostly born in the 1900s, died off. Unexpectedly, however, radical Right movements and parties entered a new period of growth in the 1980s and 1990s. While some children carried on their parents’ cause,20 new recruits voicing new grievances gave the European radical Right a renewed impetus. Something akin to fascism was far from dead in Europe as the twenty-first century opened….

‘It’ didn’t lead you onto anything you fuckwitted dumbnut, you ‘chose’ to click on a link that you have now interpreted again as somehow backing up your relentless pish about how the SNP are really against independence and are in fact undercover British state operatives who sole aim is to save the fucking union.

You are a moronic, creepy little shit bag with no redeeming features. Fuck off and gies peace.

‘Scotland in Union said it had reported the matter to the police and information watchdogs.
The names, addresses, emails, home and mobile phone numbers of hundreds of confirmed and potential donors were leaked at the weekend to pro-independence websites.’

Where did Scotland in Union get the names, addresses, emails home & mobile phone numbers of potential donors?

“You gotta ask why the leak came to WOS and not one of the MSM puppets or even the national?”

The very good reason, (to the best of anyone’s knowledge), it wasn’t leaked to the mainstream media and/or Westminster controlled broadcasters is because they obviously would have not only tipped of SiU and not published the story but would have collectively buried the story so deep underground that it would have needed a deep sea drilling rig platform to get it back out.

The SMSM and the Westminster controlled broadcasters just do not put such, prejudicial to the Establishment, information into the public domain. The mole, or rather, the disgruntled SiU member, was astute enough to jalouse, (deduce), that fact correctly.

Think how few Scots know how William Paterson and Daniel Defoe were employees of Sir Robert Harley the English government’s spymaster or that Paterson, besides setting up the Bank of England, also set-up the disastrous, (for Scotland’s landowners/parliamentarians), to then bribe them with English gold to sell our Scottish birth right into Westminster’s hands.

The Treaty of Union was actually not only an illegal confidence trick but was also backed up by English military might. Yet Westminster propaganda has successfully hidden the provable facts from the majority of Scots since 1706/7.

The evidence is all there and can be dug out by any interested person.

William Paterson was a London Scot who proposed a subscription scheme to raise cash to bail out the English Government that had massive national debts after fighting wars around Europe over the English Navigation Acts and these acts also had much to do with the American War Of Independence and were applied by Westminster against the pre-union Kingdom of Scotland and whose independent England’s monarch was also monarch of the independent Kingdom of Scotland.

His scheme was successful and led to the Bank of England’s set-up. Yet shortly later Paterson was in Edinburgh setting up the disastrous Darien Expedition but Paterson was friends with the English spy, Denial Defoe and both Defoe & Paterson were employed by Sir Robert Harley, the English Spymaster.

Defoe’s letters back to Harley in London are still there as evidence the Treaty of Union was engineered by Westminster.

So London Scot William Paterson worked for Westminster and set-up the subscription scheme for rich English Merchant/Marines to bail out the English Government and the government granted the private company, “The Guvnor and Company of the Bank of England”, that resulted from that bail-out scheme a Royal Charter but the Government of England has never owned the Bank of England.

The name did not mean that England owned the bank – just that it banked with the Bank of England which was not, “Nationalised”, until 1946 and there hasn’t been an elected Government of England since the last day of April 1707.

“The Bank of England”, is thus owned by all the people of the United Kingdom and that includes the Kingdom of Scotland, as Wales and Northern Ireland were/are parts of the Kingdom of England. Thus the Bank of England will be one of the United Kingdom’s assets to be shared after independence and the shares will obviously be negotiable. No doubt that Westminster will attempt to claim the BofE but haven’t got a legal leg to stand on.

Then Westminster will attempt to do as they do with oil and gas revenues – claim the share-out to be dependent upon population proportions – that too is not at all the proper share-out as it has been Westminster’s political policies that dictated what Scotland’s present population is.

I expect a newly independent Scottish Government to claim the share, if based upon population ratios should use the ratios extant on 1st May 1707.

Not only that but the Treaty of Union states that Scottish Banks can legally print their own banknotes but must lodge a special large denomination bank note in the Bank of England to the value of the notes they want to introduce into the Scottish money supply.

These special large denomination banknotes do not belong to the now new independent parliament of the Kingdom of England. They belong to the Scottish Banks and must be returned in full along with the Scottish Kingdom’s negotiated share of the assets of the Bank of England.

Unless, of course, agreement is reached that the, so called, Bank of England be a shared central bank but I believe a Scottish government would be foolish to agree to such a set-up.

These are only my own opinions but are based upon real evidence and facts. However, they may give Wingers some avenues of thought as to why I have harped so long about how important it is to differentiate between what the United Kingdom legally is and what Westminster has brainwashed us to wrongly believe it is and then again what it factually functions as.

The United Kingdom is legally a two partner United Kingdom with only two, equally sovereign, kingdom partners.

It is not a unified country but does contain four countries of which three comprise the Kingdom of England.

What it operates as is the Westminster de facto, unelected as such, parliament of the country of England that runs only England as the United Kingdom and devolves the claimed sovereign powers of the country of England to the three other countries – treating Scotland not as a equal partner kingdom but as just another annexed country that England won in war under the old English rule of law that was The Divine Right of Kings, a rule of law that Scotland abandoned in 1320.

Never mind, though, Rock will be along soon to tell you, as usual without quoting any evidence, that Scotland isn’t a sovereign kingdom and Westminster holds sovereignty over Scotland.

Great article in the Herald by Tom Gordon. With all the publicity SiU had no option but to report to the police and of course the ICO, and that gives the Herald a story it can safely publish, without even having to deep consult with their legal team.

What a brilliant New Year gift from Stu and now we also have Bella C. on board.

It will be interesting to see just how long our wonderful broadcast and print media can ignore this matter.

Unfortunately the chance of them using any material emanating from Stu or Bella C is minimal.

However, there is one fearless journalist with an excellent track record of poking a stick at The UK Establishment over the years.

What would be the chances of getting John Pilger on board to have a go at this. As an Aussie he obviously has no great liking for the POM Establishment and has a history of getting his material into the more left wing press and also broadcast.

Another good one is Michael Moore but unfortunately he will be preoccupied for some time with pulling the rug from under the Orange Hitler.

It would appear. One of the documents is a copy of the Scottish rich list. An openly available published document. These are not the donors. These are the people intended to be approach for donations. It in no way states that they responded or even were involved. The donor list has been redacted. It will no doubt be leaked soon. That is not openly available yet. They have been raising on average £100K per year. Rev Stu raises more than that. A small contribution considering the wealth of those mentioned. Miserable meany, super rich. Or just totally uninterested wealthy people being approached.

Many wealthy people support SNP/Independence and make donations. In major higher amount than this ‘organisation’ raises. Unless there are more documents available that have not been disclosed, Their actions are more of conmen on the take getting mugs to do their dirty work for them. Any criminality no doubt will be swept under the carpet as usual. Hopefully the reformed Police organisation will take a stand and start upholding the Law as they should have been doing. Before the clear out of duplicious individuals. Unionist appointed individuals.

The Herald Report as usual is nonsense. Amateur reporting. That people have come to expect. Poor hacking. Interestingly. McKenna nonsense report blames the SNP administration for contracts and remuneration taken out in the main by unionists administration. Nothing to do with the SNP. The usual poor contribution. Can’t count or read a balance sheet. Or google a few facts. Pathetic. Yet they claim to be ‘journalists’. A meaningless, ignorant rant.Nil points.

@K1
The twister has also somehow used that article to try to support this totally incorrect assertion: “What happened was that the SNP did offer indy-lite: by economic union with England and economic and political union with the EU.”

Whereas they did nothing of the kind. Firstly in Indy Ref 1, no economic union was offered, just a currency union, secondly it’s the rest of the UK not England, and thirdly the article was written way back in 2011 on the 6th July, long before the negotiations for the S30 and Edinburgh agreement even started, and long before the Indy Ref campaign proper got on its way.

Yet again a twisted attempt to use other people’s writing to push a clearly derisory and dishonest agenda.

@K1 If you are referring to me: I never said the SNP are undercover British operatives.

There was nothing undercover or underhand. The SNP made it clear what they were offering in 2014: indy-lite.

It was the UK Govt that decided the referendum question would say: Should Scotland be an independent country?

The SNP are openly trying to prevent hard Brexit, when hard Brexit is predicted to be a nightmare for the UK.

So, it’s not underhand, it’s brazen and open.

But, aye, I believe the SNP are working for the best interests of the UK, not for independence:

1. Because they prefer devolution.

2. When indy-lite couldn’t even win in 2014 with then much higher oil prices, the SNP have since decided to entrench their position as Scotland’s ( devolution) Govt, as they don’t believe YES would win any future referendum.

So, the SNP’s priority since is working for the interests of those who might vote SNP, but won’t vote indy, such as those North-East voters who voted SNP for years but voted NO to indy in 2014.

The SNP are hanging on by their teeth as the MINORITY Scottish Govt. Those cushy jobs at Holyrood are number one priority.

It’s simply not in the SNP’s interests to get indy, when they could have guaranteed jobs for life, if they string along the independists and deliver reasonably competent devolution while blaming WM for all the bad things.

I’m not saying all SNP, but an influential core, are now like a Tartan version of the career politicians of Scottish Labour.

Bella Caledonia has blotted it’s copy book too many times to be taken seriously. It started well and then went into oblivion. Cutting off it’s nose to spite it’s face. With constant irrational attacks on the SNP. irrelevant. Some YES supporting publication. Totally suspect.

@sassenach
Well, the article did also say “Scotland in Union now faces a possible investigation and sanction by the UK Information Commissioner’s Office” which it doesn’t need to, nor does it need to mention the prizes, nor Pearson’s part in it.

It’s possible it’s trying to appeal to the unconverted by being a little critical of our side, and if that works, good luck to it. I do the same myself, maybe they’re copying my style 🙂

If the list is a squirrel, all I can say is what a squirrel,
We will just have to comeback regularly to this site, to find out to find out if the squirrel has returned.
As you wont find it in our so called news media.

“It was the UK Govt that decided the referendum question would say: Should Scotland be an independent country?”

I;m getting totally sick of lies like this, the date and calling and conduct of the referendum and the referendum question and even the inclusion of the Electoral Commission were totally in the power of the Scottish Government within the Section 30 which required a single question and gave until the 31st December 2014 for the Referendum to be held.

Saying anything else is just a total outright lie, and that can be proven from both government websites, if I could be bothered my arse doing it for a subversive liar.

@Bob Mack 11.37 a.m.
Have to point out BM that your paragraph on the SiU Advisory Board member isn’t quite right. I don’t want to give SiU even the smallest of openings in their squalid campaign.
Yer mon was General Officer Commanding Northern Ireland for only 2 years between 2000 and 2003. His other major post in NI was 1992-1994 when he commanded 39th Infantry Brigade. The Military Reconaissance Force was attached to the 39th at the start of the Troubles. The MRF was notorious for active involvement in killings and in its later incarnation it was known as the Forces Research Unit. The FRU Wikipedia page says this “From 1992 to 1994, loyalists were responsible for more deaths than republicans for the first time since the 1960s”. ‘Interesting’ dates but then correlation is not causation unless in reality causation underlies correlation.
As a fun little example of what’s around online ‘yer mon’ quite happily accepted 47,646.85 euros of EU farm subsidies between 1999 and 2009.
go to farmsubsidy.org for details and countless hours of aristo-trough-snuffling fun.

I agree with Sarah’s point above. What these leaks very amusingly show is just confirming what most Yes voters already knew, how many no voters it would turn is debatable.I do think we need more mainstream media onside as I can’t see the No campaign being as poor as last time. I think we should all do our bit and everything we can to support those who are trying to give another side to the debate. Anyhow best wishes for the New Year and hopefully one year closer to independence.

You see your average No voter in Scotland I truly believe that they have no idea of who or what it is they are supporting. Sure they are many that have an emotional attachment to the concept of a United Kingdom but the great majority must be unaware that they are supporting the Establishment.

The very thing that has held them and their families back for literally centuries. It’s the Establishment who are funding SiU it’s the Establishment that won both the referendum in 2014 and the EU exit in 2016.

Would like to think the Scotsman might be taken over by a pro Independence management, but I would doubt it would be allowed. Still lets hope new referendum is called for in 2018 with vote taking place in early 2019.

“The very thing that has held them and their families back for literally centuries. It’s the Establishment who are funding SiU it’s the Establishment that won both the referendum in 2014 and the EU exit in 2016.”

Spot on Thepnr. You make many great contributions here and to the Independence cause. Guid New Year to you and your family.

OT from Rev.’s twitter. Re. nurses with beards. Critical realism can add a neccessary ‘ontological stratification’ to critical feminist theory, and help to shed light on challenging moral issues and nasty creepy-crawlies in dark places.

SEX AND GENDER: A CRITICAL REALIST APPROACH

Sex and gender

Emerging out of both human physiological and social structures, is human psychology. Our selfhood emerges from the possibilities implicit in our central nervous systems, realised in our practical engagement, as embodied beings, with the physical and social world (Archer, 2000). As beings with certain capacities and needs, we respond to what we find in our lives, by conceptualising (as well as by feeling and acting). We draw on the various resources around us to make sense of gender (among other things) when it is offered to us as an explanatory category. Our responses, and others’ responses to our responses, create new situations requiring further responses. In this iterative process we gradually conceptualise and experience ourselves as gendered: gender becomes part of what Archer calls our ‘inner conversation’ (ibid). How this happens in our personal biographies influences our desire, or lack of it, for change in the gender order.

Feminists, like all activists, want change. And some changes are possible (while others are not) at each of the levels I have discussed, including the relatively enduring one of biological sexual difference. For activists, two crucial questions are: ‘What is possible?’ And ‘What do we want?’ Whatever changes are wanted, to bring them about requires strategy and tactics, since political activity is itself stratified. To have a chance of formulating effective strategy, we need to know as much as possible about the relevant causal mechanisms at work at all levels, and the relationships between them. Causal claims are, indeed, bids for power: the power to make possible and wanted changes, which comes from an adequate understanding of real causal relationships. Since they are fallible, such claims are inevitably risky, but if we refuse to make them we give up a key dimension of agency. To restrict feminist activism to one level of social reality, or to rely on actualist ideas of causation, is rather like trying to impose the rules of ludo on your game of chess.

@Thepnr
The other thing about the average NO voter is that the choice between Independence and staying in the Union is probably only 5th or even 10th on their list of priorities. The advantage of that for us is that their view can change without them even thinking about it.

Great find. Given what we’ve learned about them recently, I think the last paragraph is hilarious.

“Conclusion

Conscious of tactics used by the Scottish National Party and their supporters, it is worth noting that there might well be a degree of orchestrated responses to this consultation with followers taking their lead from the Scottish National Party leadership.”

Just in case I “forget” later on I’ll wish everyone a happy hogmanay stay safe and look forward with every increasing vigour for what appears to be a VERY interesting year ahead … at least for those of us fighting, each in our own way, for Scottish independence!

The Electoral Commission made the Scottish Govt change the question. Whilst the Electoral Commission is supposed to be an impartial and independent body, anybody that believes the Electoral Commission to be independent and impartial of UK Govt only needs to study their decisions into the Tory MP expenses abuses.

Just like the Edinburgh Agreement also said: “Ensuring impartiality of broadcasters

21. The governments agree that it will be important to ensure that broadcast coverage of the Referendum is impartial. Broadcasters, Ofcom and the Electoral Commission will discussthe best way to achieve this.”

Voters will be asked the yes/no question: “Should Scotland be an independent country?”

The Scottish government’s original version of the question, “Do you agree that Scotland should be an independent country?”, was dropped after the Electoral Commission raised concerns it could lead people into voting “yes”.

Past incarnations of the referendum question have proved far more wordy.
The SNP previously said people could be asked to vote “Yes I agree” or “No I disagree” to the statement:

“The Scottish Parliament should negotiate a new settlement with the British government, based on the proposals set out in the white paper, so that Scotland becomes a sovereign and independent state.”

Well, I’ve looked at some of the blogs and twitter feeds and I think there’s a few suspects

Its him. Dr No is already infiltrating SLabour quite deeply too.

Code name Dr No, his mission, should he choose to accept it, infiltrate deep in to hard core zoomer yoon culture in their Scotland region, email out all the most private stuff imaginable to everyone and their cat.

Dr Scott Think also likes to complain very publicly about how terrible Scots education is but considering he spends his every waking moment getting up to all kinds of cunning stunts to bring down Scottish democracy, my actual query really is, how easy is it to get a job as a Heriot Watt lecturer?

Asking for several other slackers, looking for cushty Heriot Watt doss.

NO, they did not. The Electoral Commission have no mandate to do anything, apart from advise. The decision and format of the question were totally up to the Scottish Government. They could have kept to the original, or changed to something totally different.

Clearly, you aren’t independent if in a currency union with a much larger partner and a tiddler in the EU.

Scotland is one of the EU biggest member states, in waiting, a lot bigger than say Benelux. Its just that Scotland’s run by its neighbour England, who have spat feathers since, lets say the dawn of the Snatcher Thatcher era, at just the thought of Scotland developing as an economic industrial powerhouse, which ofcourse Scotland is more than capable of, if even the fable BetterTogether devo max promise ever materialised.

But, that would never do would it Colin A.

Its England England all the way, in their teamGB zone. For how much longer, I do not know.

Biggest creep out in this end of yoon era Colin A? the fact that there people like you desperately trying to block Scotland’s development, free from our neighbour’s control.

Before Scotland goes nuts at ‘The Bells’ may I just wish each and every Winger a happy and prosperous New Year.
I look forward to 2018 with renewed faith in a soon to be independent Scotland and, has the Rev not just given us a great end to 2017?
The Unionist facade is cracking, they have run out of lies to tell.
Best wishes to all.

yesindyref2 says:
31 December, 2017 at 7:34 pm
@Heed “how easy is it to get a job as a Heriot Watt lecturer?”

I really wouldn’t like to comment, I knew someone who lectured there

There’s not such a thing as professional integrity now, call it the Carmichael Doctrine, where you can lie through your teeth all the time, with your politic stuff, like Councilor Dr Scott Thinks does, yet its not a crime and ofcourse you get to keep your public sector job.

But like my Slovene girlfriend at Glesga uni, Dr Scott Thinks is clearly given all the time he needs to get stuck in to his vote NO, SNP bad politics.

All that is fine, its up to their uni employers to decide whether or not either my Slovene girlfriend and Dr Scott Thinks are actually doing what they are paid to do.

But they dont get to tear strips off of Scots education, when they’re both Scots educators, part time, full time, who knows.

A wee add on to my previous post.
Branson runs a train set, does he own the land or shares where his train set runs? if so probably gets shit loads of pennies for said train set.
Rowling! a wee train set up north to Hogworts? you get the drift. A wee message to the Yoon Trolls.
Try and take Stu down? there’s 100s of thousands of us ready to carry on the message.
Can you take down 100s of thousands? NAW.
Yoons get back in your box. You f*ck wi wan, ye f*ck wi us all. ( ye better git mair baddies) ( you will NEVER have enough)
Yer teas oot.

Oh Aye, Happy New Year. Roll on 2018.
The futures bright, the futures Indy Scotland.
Parasites shut the gate at the border.

Sheesh, it can’t even understand what it wrote itself, and I quote: “What happened was that the SNP did offer indy-lite: by economic union with England and economic and political union with the EU.” (my bold)

and the second part is wrong as well, as is the new stupid assertion. There are 18 EU-28 countries who are part of the eurozone, and still totally independent.

I think most of us had our fill of this sort of incorrect argument used by Unionists in Indy Ref 1, some of them still seem to be going on about Indy Ref 1.

Nevermind, it’ll soon be out with the old, and in with the new. Can’t wait.

Gary45%….
You just made me realise that as I’m from Falkirk, part of our motto it Touch ane, Touch a’
I think it also applies to the true wingers on this site.
Stu, have a great New Year, there are thousands of us watching your back.

Valerie says:
31 December, 2017 at 7:44 pm
Isn’t it interesting that the resident troll chooses tonight and this thread to start his FUCKING nonsense?

But he is a unionist campaigner and they are all just another weird part of Scottish life. There’s no actual reason why btl WoS should be a kind of sanitised safe zone from them.

Its when they dont come a creeping about online like Colin A, either Scotland’s voted YES or we have actually all been jailed, Catalan style:D

Happy New Year Wings over Scotland. Thanks very much for another amazing year of great writing and hope, over ALL the red and blue tory world of UKOK hackdom in Scotland and their endlessly bizarro bullshit.

Have a great one everyone WoS btl, hope you’re all off to get totally shitfaced for Scotland, like me.

See you all in 2018, probably the penultimate year, of UKOK rule in Scotland, no, not probably, WILL be!

To Stu and all the Wingers have great new year. To all the unionists have great new year as well, hopefully you’ll see the light in 2018, and come to realise independence is the best way forward for Scotland.

Some excellent articles in the Sunday Herald today. The front page alone should make people sit up and take stock or will they just sit back and let this happen? What of the SiU punters (support privatisation – money no problem), Ruth Davidson’s Tories and Leonard’s Labourites? Still hellbent on doing their London masters / mistresses bid by dragging Scotland out of the EU?

The article goes on to highlight ‘Brexit poses biggest threat to Scotland’s NHS.’

‘Scotland’s NHS is facing ruin because of Brexit. The stark warning comes from the Scottish Government’s Health Secretary Shona Robinson, as well as the head of the British Medical Association (BMA) in Scotland and the Scottish leader of the Royal College of Nursing (RCN).’

Is it really true that the Scotland In Union Green ink brigade get £50 for every letter printed.

I don’t think so; there was one publication where a “star letter” got £50, but that was in the form of a voucher for Barrhead Travel, who were described as “sponsoring” the prize.

Since it may well be that BT doesn’t sell anything that costs less than £50, the lucky winner would be obliged to pay out in order to get a discount.

That’s how I interpreted it, anyway. Certainly I’ve never received a single penny for a reasonable number of letters published in lots of different papers over several decades. Maybe they didn’t have sufficient “star quality”.

What a cracking read this place has been this past few days, even more so than usual and, as always, BTL too. Thanks folks.

On the box the place to be tonight will be the Alba Ceilidh, always brilliant, and there’s some cracking music on the same channel beforehand. So almost time to moisten the vocal chords for the singalong bits and get the dancing pumps on.

But whit’ll it be, whit’ll it be, whit’ll it be? There’s Scottish craft beers in the fridge, a range of artisan gins, and some fine drams. Decisions, decisions.

While I ponder that, and I may drop by later with the odd tasting note, have a great time one and all; onwards into the monumental year that 2018 promises to be be, now that we can put that dead quite 2017 behind us…

It’s interesting, and a riddy for SIU, but they were already splintering and in-fighting. It’s not a game-changer in my opinion. Good entertainment though and a good read. Whether more information comes out that could be a game changer remains to be seen. Especially, when it seems it came about via backstabbing.

I always try to respect the rules that say, no off topic should be put until a dozen or so posts have been made. (yesindyref2, don’t bother picking fault if that’s not an exact quote).

At the end of the day, we HOPEFULLY want the same goal and that’s indy.

Right, I’ll give the benefit of the doubt about the SNP regarding their Brexit intervention for Soft Brexit. I’ll leave to one side that they have no mandate or any other authority to do that:

I’m told that Soft Brexit would make things easier for Scotland to transition to either a) indy EFTA /EEA or b) EU membership. So it’s good for indy.

That does make sense, so far. If Scotland was already meeting all conditions, clearly little or no changes would be needed to meet the criteria of membership of EEA or EU. IF people voted for indy.

But here’s my problem:

Why would anyone vote for a (hopefully) smoother transition to indy Scotland Single Market access when the UK would already offer Single Market access?

I think we already have all the patriot and heart over wallet votes.

The ones that need to come to YES are the financial argument votes.

If UK remained in the Single Market, which is the SNP desire, where is the economic case for independence, regarding Brexit being a game changer?

It would be Project Fear 2014 over again.

Scotland would be out the Single Market if the rUK retains the membership. UK guarantees EU Single Market access. Scotland would be out of their two largest markets, economic suicide.

(That’s not my view, but the No argument from 2014).

On purely financial terms it’s a bird in the hand v a bird in the bush. A dead cert v an uncertainty. Business always goes for stability and certainty and that’s where the propaganda would favour. That would be the UK.

So, even though, aye Scotland as part of the UK remaining in the Single Market would make transition to EEA /EU theoretically much easier, it’s less likely we’d get the chance, cos people would still vote NO: as the UK’s Single Market access would already be a fact, not a policy or aim or hope for an indy Scotland.

Towards the end of 2014 I was in the Hamilton Central Library to use a computer. I tried to log on to Wings, but received a massage that the site was blocked. I logged on to Scotland in Union without any problems.
I made an official complaint about the blockage of Wings, while SiU was available. After some time I received notification from the Library that my complaint was being looked into. I didn’t hear any more from the Library. I returned to Canada and did not pursue the matter any further except to alert Wings to that happening.

I wonder if anyone else has tried to log on to Wings on a Public Library computer, and what the result was?

I’ve decided on Havana rum this year, in recognition of the “Cubist revolution” (Count Arthur Strong).
So wishing all WoS contributors, and especially the Cybernat Controller, a very happy and prosperous New Year.
Hope 2018 will be as boring and tedious as 2017 turned out to be.

An article in Scottish Left Review by Craig Lundie (secretary of SNP Trade Union Group ).

The criticisms of Labour are good, then the old argument put forward (it’s all WM’s fault the SNP can’t make progressive changes). The silly bit is when he gets to the “progressive alliance” at WM suggestion. How did that go each time that’s been suggested?

Bookmark it, as a future issue has Sillars and Leonard in it, according to the Herald.

Habib Steele 9.17. Thanks im sure Wingers will follow up on your info , no doubt its a labour/con council censorship in south lanarkshire I will certainly be checking nth Lanarkshire in Airdrie this week .

I think perhaps Stuart Campbell should change his name by deed poll to Controversial Blogger Stuart Campbell, then the journos would have to write “Controversial blogger Controversial Blogger Stuart Campbell …”. That would fry their brains out.

There was a tradition where I was brought up that started in school and it was that anyone who was a nuisance for no reason or a wee clipe or as you grew up became the first one to ruin somebodys Mammys carpet at Hogmanay by Ralphin on it got “Threw ootside” even if it wiz puir freezin

There was always that wee brat round your street girl or boy we’ve all had dealings with them they’d needle a fight between two people if it took them a nicht

Now we all know what happened to those people they became Yoon clipes and wee brats who keep trying to anger people on Wings over Scotland, probably online is the only place ye cannae throw the wee shites oot yer hoose even when they know they’re no waantit

If there are any bampots that think I’m in any way preventing indy by making comments on here, you deceive yourselves by the flattery of your egos.

Aye, some politicians might read Stu’s articles, but if you think politicians are influenced by ANY of us in below the line btl comments, Think again.

No offence to Stu, but the SNP wouldn’t touch him with a barge pole, and he’s the top man, so if you imagine your btl chatter is playing a crucial role in achieving indy, then you are kidding yourself.

I don’t mean that as a discouragement. But a reality check. That’s also an invitation for more people to write their contributions. You are entitled to put your comments too, don’t worry about the self-righteous bully brigade on here; the know it alls. There are many others who are not like that.

Accept btl for what it is, a mixture of comments, banter, argument, discussion and sharing of opinions etc. So don’t be afraid to comment.

The more the merrier, so it’s not me and the same faces again and again. So, Wings btl can be energised and invigorated with fresh blood.

‘Star letter’ The paper chooses the ‘best’ letter. (Joke). The firm who sponsors cough up the £50 payout. Unlikely to be vouchers. Cheque? Or transfer. To try and increase communications from readers. Best deal is to boycott the lot of them. £50 to ruin your place of residence. They lose more than £50 with a boycott. Less revenues from adverts and internet traffic.

Herald is full of internet adverts commissioned on the basis of internet traffic. Popping up all over the place really annoying. Unreadable. That is where they get their revenues stream. Less traffic less revenues.They use the number of internet hits as the basis to increase advert customers – revenues. PR. Marketing department. A boycott decreases their revenues. Already struggling. Firms will not cough up based on lower internet traffic/hits on the site. Not profitable to shell out for fewer hits or traffic. Not worth it. Also less readership less opportunity for customers to place ads. Their revenues stream lowers.

Feck sake Rev Stu. A New Year wish. Get rid of the boring annoying troll cluttering up the website. Know you are extremely busy but block the incessant,obsessive troll. Increasingly posting nonsense. Put an end to it, Trying to damage the website. Put it to rest.

Oh fur fuck’s sake you tiny arrogant jumped up wanksocket…no one, no one, gives a shite about whatever fantasy pish you think you are contributing on here…no one is scared to post, no one is thinking ‘Oh that dumbnut fur a brain coco the prickster has just spoken fur me’.

You are beyond deluded if you believe for a second that this forum has no influence on our movement, has no influence of the progression of our aims, has no affect on the ordinary people of Scotland who view and share this site daily. And by proxy of course influences this polity in terms of who they fucking vote for.

You are a proven lying obfuscating twisted shyster with an unconscionable sneaky shit divisive agenda with no care for anyone but yourself. Your number was called months ago, it just took a few people a bit longer to realise what a slithering little worm you are…more credit to them for having that kind of compassion…and a testament to your ugly little self serving con that they didn’t see it right away.

Now once and for all…go take a flying fuck tae yersel’ ya patronising little fuckwit.

“As for being independent whilst in the EU or especially the Eurozone. Nonsense. Did you miss the whole EU-ref debate?
Semi-independent at best. Ultimately sovereign, aye. But independent, no.”

You do comment some utter pish Colin.

Quite obviously you have little idea how the EU works.

Not only is the EU parliament democratic but it works by consensus. That means that not only are all, and every, EU parliamentary decision passed by a majority but each and every member state has a veto. Thus, even if a majority of MEPs pass a particular motion, a member state cannot accept the decision they simply veto it and it fails.

This, of course, rarely happens because any member state can, and they quite often do just ignore the EU decision. For example a particular EU directive states that all member states must, when they qualify, adopt the Euro.

Yet nine of the 28 countries (Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Hungary, Poland, Romania, Sweden, and the United Kingdom) are EU members but do not use the euro.

Before joining the eurozone, a state must spend two years in the European Exchange Rate Mechanism but Sweden is a founder member state and does not use the Euro.

Furthermore, Andorra, Monaco, San Marino, and Vatican City have formal agreements with the EU to use the euro as their official currency and issue their own coins. Kosovo and Montenegro have adopted the euro unilaterally, but these countries do not officially form part of the eurozone and do not have representation in the European Central Bank (ECB) or in the Eurogroup.

BTW: There are NO EU rules, laws or legal mechanisms that enable the EU to throw any member state out of the EU. Thus all that is required for the country, or the Kingdom of Scotland, to remain in the EU even if they cannot break out of the Treaty of Union that only has two member Kingdoms is for the EU parliament to rule that the UK is a bipartite Kingdom and one part of it has voted not to leave.

In such a case it highlights the fact that the Treaty of Union that begat the United Kingdom has only two partner kingdoms and thus the case of Wales and N.I. are in no way like that of Scotland for Wales has been an integral part of the Kingdom of England since The Statute or Rhuddlan and all Ireland has been part of the Kingdom of England since the Irish, “Crown of Ireland Act”, was passed.

Scotland has never been part of the Kingdom of England and Westminster is not the legally elected parliament of England. It became the new parliament of the two partner United Kingdom on the first day of May 1707 and there has been no legally elected parliament of England ever since.

You are thus, Colin, a propagator of Westminster pure pish & propaganda.

From the heart of the “evil” EU where the new year 2018 is up and running a very happy new year to the man the yoonionists hate most – Rev. Stu and his merry band of Wossers – all the very best wishes from me. 🙂

The image I saw of a letters page with a prize “sponsored by Barrhead Travel” explicitly stated lower down the page that the prize was a £50 voucher.

It was one of a series of tweets of images of letters from the Green Ink brigade. I don’t have a twitter account and cannot remember who tweeted it. So I won’t be able to find it to show you, probably.

“No offence to Stu, but the SNP wouldn’t touch him with a barge pole, and he’s the top man, so if you imagine your btl chatter is playing a crucial role in achieving indy, then you are kidding yourself.”

You do talk a right load of pish, Colin, for a start if the commenter here on Wings is also a member of the SNP then they have exactly the same number of votes upon and SNP policy as does Nicola Sturgeon.

Matter of fact Nicola Sturgeon cannot make SNP party policy because that can only be done by a vote at national conference. You may not be aware of it but most of the views stated here on Wings by SNP members are party policy. I’m not sure about every commenting SNP member but if I state my own opinion a say as much. If it is party policy I state it as party policy.

So whether you like it or not the views expressed on such as Wings are indeed noted by the party – as are the views of the electorate – had you not noticed that Nicola always calls for a mandate on important issues before taking any actions.

Even if the elected to government SNP members wanted to change party policies they would have to do so by moving a motion at their local branch and getting it seconded. It would thus be subject to both opposing motions and amendments just to clear the branch and go on to the Constituency Association. The way it would clear the branch is by being debated and voted upon and the decision being a majority on the members present.

Relatives in Sydney. Some were born there. Even had a history of the Sydney Harbour Bridge. Designed in Scotland. Base built by stonemasons from Italy and Aberdeen. Fascinating. The Rubislaw Quarry (Granite) is being developed as a tourist attraction. One of the deepest quarries in Europe? An exhibition centre will include a mention of the Sydney Harbour Bridge and the stonemason some of whom worked there, who emigrated to work on the Bridge. Great stories. Hard job especially in those days. Less machinery, power tools etc.

Family been in touch tonight. Visited Scotland/UK in August. Visited Sydney some time ago, Wonderful City absolutely spectacular. The City and the proximity of the ocean.
They have been coming back and forwards for years, Seriously about six times. They just can’t decided where to settle. The power of the internet is brilliant. Especially at this time of year. Helps to keep contact. Hope to make another visit. If it is possible.

In that case the voucher is not worth the price printed on it. Just a worthless publicity stunt. Another con. A useless voucher. Sure SIU and other mugs will be delighted with a useless piece of paper. They can be spotted miles away. Letters pages. Yet want secrecy. Half daft or what. They have there details plaster all over the Press. In fact in certain cases they really appear to need some professional help for obsessive behaviour.

Don’t read the paper. Never bother. On other ‘star’ letter awards. The ‘award’ joke can be cash or goods (whisky) in some cases.

Happy New Year all, but here’s the news, SiU have hired 2.5 million drones to first-foot every household in Scotland, with an image of a smiling Gordon Brown so as to take on the character of Project Fear.

I’ve managed to hack the code and they’re all on their way to Colin as we speak, but I can only hold them on Warp 10 for a few minutes Capn, the code’s about to blow. So all YESsers quick and first-foot everyone around you and give them a YES character to break the thrall.

Re. Only an Excuse. Didn’t watch it but can imagine. The BBC are Charter bound to sustain social cohesion throughout the UK. They must undermine any perceived threat to the current constitutional set-up. They do very well out of the arrangement, thanks.

Discursive psychology and the production of identity in language practices

Abstract

This chapter explores the shared agenda for discursive psychology and applied linguistics in the study of identity and outlines the distinctive and ethically sound contribution discursive psychology can make. Discursive psychology enables the applied linguist to examine the way psychological concepts are made relevant and consequential in talk, in a way that holds up to scrutiny, without requiring the applied linguist to become enmeshed in favouring one theory of psychological subjectivity and interiority over another.

The chapter locates the development of discursive psychology within the broader discipline of psychology, outlining the historical trajectory, theoretical stance and analytic principles. It outlines some of the problematic assumptions that can occur when applying psychological concepts such as attitudes, beliefs, motivation and agency across disciplinary boundaries and the ‘psychologisation’ this entails, and explains how discursive psychology offers a practical solution to this interdisciplinary challenge. It rebuts the commonly misapplied criticism that discursive psychology assumes an ‘empty vessel’ model of the person, lacking in continuities and personal order, pointing instead to the epistemological strengths of discursive psychology alongside a cautious approach to ontological claims.

May I wish Stu an extremely guid new year, together with all the amazing Wings clan who support the cause of Independence for Scotland on this site.

It would be nice to think that 2018 was going to be a happy new year, but our Colonial Masters have no intention of allowing Scotland’s sense of well-being to be elevated to the realm of happiness. Quite the opposite.

It remains likely that events have not yet unfolded to the point of providing probability over Scottish independence, but at least there is the distinct chance that our Imperial Masters will destabilise further in the next twelve months.

Scotland does not need any increase in the sales of Crystal balls to enable us to know that in 2018 we must get ready to take our chance when it comes, and I for one am happy with that for the moment.

Well it seems to be about an online system that will be used for voting if we are denied a referendum!
He has given a deadline of this September for one to be in place.
And an online information hub with fundraising that’s been tidied up.
Also a postal service with a buy and sell capacity.

My first question would be….
What about the people who aren’t online?
Although as a 21st century solution to people power that doesn’t have to resort to violence it is, I think worth exploring!
If we were talking about South Africa in the 90s and the sheer amount of the population that were not allowed a vote by their government this would have been the answer.
Not sure that Scotland is or will be at that point,so as to embrace the plan ….espically in the time frame he is working from.
Not forgetting that Westminster is not stupid enough to behave like the South African government did.
They are more likely to repeat the Northern Irish model ….or try to,and they have a significant amount of Scots to work with.

To have any authenticity there’d have to be a valid registration and verification system, which wouldn’t be cheap. And unhackability 100% secure. But it could present a fallback, and having a fallback gives extra incentive for the likes of Westminster to provide an S30, and the Scotgov to force one in the first place. Otherwise Westminster looks like Spain, and the Scotgov unwilling. A bit of People power, the People are Sovereign.

Yesindyref2 @ 4.32
I was thinking that…
We would probably have to have the support of the local councils to get voter’s registration.
That’s what I mean when I say that the time frame is problematic.
We would need an environment where most were champing at the bit to vote and at the very least another Council Election.
Unless this group already have a solution to this!
But it’s still good to know we could work towards an alternative if we had to!

@Liz g
Couldn’t sleep. Just thinking about that, and along the lines that the people are sovereign, it wouldn’t need councils or parliament. Some means of verification of a fair and secure vote would be needed, and of course servers capable of taking a thrashing within 16 hours including much higher peaks than for traditional voting, the problem is that for the sake of argument, if the referendum produced 2.1 million YES and 1.5 million NO, but everyone ignores the result – what then?

“From the 3,970,712 papers posted, 31.8% valid votes were returned with all votes counted by May 2000. The results showed that 86.8% of the returned ballots were in favour of keeping Section 28, and 13.2% in favour of repeal.”

The best way to stop the elite spending their offshore money on such groups is proper land reform regulation and taxation, this is what they fear most.

If they really are “Proud to be Scottish” then they should be proud to contribute money to the Scottish NHS and Education system via taxation, instead of money waster groups who appear to achieve very little.

yesindyref2 says:
1 January, 2018 at 6:41 am
@Liz g
Couldn’t sleep. Just thinking about that, and along the lines that the people are sovereign, ……. but everyone ignores the result – what then?

That’s what I’ve been saying for months. We are chugging along our route to Independence, or think we are, but yet we still have no clearly defined, and commonly recognised appreciation of what Scotland’s constitutional sovereignty actually means in practice and application.

IF we did, (and of course we assume that clarity confirmed Scotland’s people were sovereign), then Michel Barnier and the EU itself would not have the option of recognising Scotland as a sovereign interlocutor, because they would have no other choice in the matter. Neither would Westminster for that matter. They would have to negotiate with us on the basis of our constitutional sovereignty.

Right now however, nobody, including Holyrood, is recognising Scottish Sovereignty, and until that changes, then a referendum, a majority, a mandate, and even a hi tech electronic voting system all share the common problem of everybody’s bogey man UDI – having it Internationally recognised.

It is crazy to go careering down the road towards a snap Independence referendum without first establishing beyond all measure of doubt and ambiguity that the result will be recognised and accepted for it’s constitutional competence.

Until and unless we do that, then we will be putting ourselves in the EXACT same position as Catalonia. Westminster, respected as sovereign, will be pulling our strings just as Madrid pulls the strings in Catalonia.

Yes, Scotland is different, Scotland is Sovereign, Scotland is a Nation, Scotland has its own laws… Yes, yes, yes, … but it doesn’t mean a damned thing without Constitutional clarity and international recognition of our sovereignty.

Until we do this, then we are trying to score a goal when we don’t have any goal posts.

Sovereignty means nothing without recognition, but then we have the chicken and egg type scenario where your vote can’t be respected as sovereign unless you are sovereign in the first place, but if you are sovereign in the first place, why do you need a ballot to become sovereign? Before we need a referendum majority, we need absolute definitive clarity on our current constitutional status. Scotland, Westminster, the EU and the UN must all be on the same Constitutional page, ant the moment, we are not.

Scotland’s assertion of legal sovereignty, whether it’s legitimate or not, is NOT the version of events that is currently Internationally recognised. That crossroads in my humble opinion is where the issue of Scotland’s constitutional future stands, – not in an arbitrary referendum. That comes later. Let us first make sure that the result will count.

Whatiffery and speculation is interesting but totally irrelevant. All people have to do is vote for it. Simple. Vote SNP/SNP Vote for Independence. It really simple. Quick and easy. If people do that everything else will follow. Without that speculation etc is just irrelevant. and basically not helpful. Going round the houses time and time and making irrelevant comparison. In situations that are quite different. E.g. Scotland and Catalonia. To different to compare without qualifications is not helpful. . Different. History, different lifestyle, different Laws, different relationship, different economies, different political system, different monetary system etc etc.

One campaign at a time. Despite people’s obvious impatience. The psycho bastards can be challenged and defeated. It has happened extremely successfully, in recent times. Beaten at their own game. It is so simple just put a cross or number on a piece of paper.

Until then be thankful for good SNP governance. Standing up for Scotland. Imagine the alternative. Everything on going well and everything to play. The disaster of Brexit etc. Some folk like to drive themselves up the wall. Or on a course to fall over a cliff. Usually in ignorance,

Ken, your second paragraph above/below including your own unique punctuation style, should be seen by many as a new year resolution.

‘One campaign at a time. Despite people’s obvious impatience. The psycho bastards can be challenged and defeated. It has happened extremely successfully, in recent times. Beaten at their own game. It is so simple just put a cross or number on a piece of paper.’

2018 has to be the year of the open door. It has to be made plain that we welcome all – no matter previous commitments,no matter previous arguments, no matter previous animosities – and that is the big one.

That means we have to be big enough. The obligation is firmly on us. A walk across the floor is the most difficult walk in politics and I suspect there are not a few hesitating still but contemplating it.

So on 2018 we do not attack people for their long held political views. We hold out a hand and say you are entitled to those views and you will be able to hold them and argue them in an independent Scotland. An independent democratic Scotland and a much better place than the one we are in now.

No excuse BBC, that was a Bad Bad move.
Anyway thanks for the free publicity to watch ( The Alex Salmond show on RT ). Google it people or watch it on RT and make your own mind up, what is best.
One last thing, you have made a lot of people make a resolution to stop paying the TV licence fee. Thanks for that some people can now switch on the heater more.

Batten down the hatches it’s going to be a bumpy and unhappy ride for Ukania in 2018. Hope we are well prepared. Hope there’s a referendum in the offing Nicola?
Didn’t all that ‘celebratory’ noise sound very much like shelling and gun fire? The sounds of Syria. Ironic….

Well, happy New Year to Stu and family and to all the great Wings contributors. I hope Stu predicts another quiet year if the last prediction is anything to go by!

We do need to have our sovereignty established to go forward with our aims and dreams of Independence, knowing that for sure would be a very big boost. When we truly understand we need to tip our hat to no one. We will then be who we want to be. So we need legal conformation as other posters have pointed out.

So lets buckle down to the task this year and take out footsteps back into the world again and throw the shackles of the totally corrupt “Union” into the trash bin.

2018, onwards and upwards.

Just a question to add, just why would Westminster spend so much money and man power on controlling Scotland, if they seriously think we cannot just walk away if the people want to do so?

The punction style if unique. Is deliberate. To keep it brief. Easy to read and less effort to express. Simple. Once given some advise which comes in handy for less effort. Precise. Small sentences. Brief direct point. Less effort, Not writing a rambling book. Just giving a few pointers. Of where to look etc.

That is one reason why twitter can be called a success. Although many can’t be bothered with it. Utimately it can take up too much time on it. Although it can be very extremely informative. Quick and relatively easy. Long posts can just not Be read. People can’t be bothered, Humans can have short attention spans, Especially with the never ending flood of information. So much to do. So little time. Pre text, spelling, punctuation is still a major consideration. Unfortunately.

Not jut the Royals suppressing the true nature. The church in whichever form itv was played a huge part also.

In fact such a huge part that one King felt the need to set up their own church so he could marry another wife, some felt the need for the “Glorious revolution” and replaced the king with their own figured in the king’s place.

And all the time the ruling class (now as then) quietly beavered away in the shadows coercing and pulling unseen strings. As true even today as then – as proven by Stu this we.

Anyway, all the best to wingers near and far. 2 hrs more and finished work. Steak pie for one waiting at home, and maybe a wee glass of Sid – since he wife has decided to spend Christmas back in a cold and windy Lanarkshire.

Megan will have to keep her views without political interference. That is what she is supposed to be buying into. That could become a long running saga. She should not be so ignorant. She is intending marrying a Tory Royal who maims and kills without conscience. To fund his gross extravagant publically funded wealth. She should not be so deluded. Or how long will it last? The Royals are supposed to be impartial, and not interfere or intervene in any political matters. Or use false influence secret or otherwise. As a impartial, neutral head of State. That is what their position is supposed to be based upon. Over rated in any case. Or how long will they last? If they do not rein it in.

Dear sweet Megan could destroy the Monarchy. The irony. She is an actress capable of betraying a false identity. Necessary for that role. Maybe that is why she is the chosen one.

I have nothing personal against Royals or unionist politicians, it’s just their lies, their deceit, their privilege, their well-disguised warmongering and their self-imposed-righteousness that troubles me.

These days it is far more limited: “The Lisbon Treaty, which came into force in 2009, saw the most recent phase of integration, and saw the introduction of qualified majority voting in over 30 policy areas, effectively removing members veto powers in the majority of policy areas.

Where can we use a veto?

There are now only a few areas of EU policy where changes require a unanimous vote. In these few areas member states still effectively have a veto on EU decisions. They are:

Common Foreign and Security Policy (with the exception of certain clearly defined cases which require qualified majority, e.g. Appointment of a special representative)
Citizenship – the granting of new rights to EU citizens
New EU membership
Harmonisation of national legislation on indirect taxation
EU finances (own resources, the multiannual financial framework)
Certain provisions in the field of justice and home affairs (the European prosecutor, family law, operational police cooperation, etc.)
Harmonisation of national legislation in the field of social security and social protection.

“FM does not act without a mandate, what’s the Scot Govt / FM mandate for attempting to negotiate UK soft Brexit?

They do have a mandate for Scotland remaining in the Single Market: ” But if the SNP wins this election, we will demand that keeping Scotland in the
Single Market is made a part of the UK’s Brexit negotiations”.

So the ONLY mandate they had was to demand ABOUT SCOTLAND. NOT THE UK.

With all these SICo’s being so easily exposed for who and what they are, then there are surely a few sqeaky bums cutting about in other camps this last few days. It probably won’t hit the headlines but this kind of exposure must be a sare kick in the baws for the yoons. I’m looking forward to all the shit 2018 brings, the can of worms has only just come of the shelf but in the the meantime – The Donkey’s safe & the Trout are on the run 🙂 Happy New Year…

All we see on TV is Royals, get out of their car,
open their jacket button,
close the button,
put hand in pocket,
take back out again,
open jacket button,
put hand in pocket,
edge towards some mad-yins with umbrella hats,
shake hands,
state the bleeding obvious about some veterans or land-mine charity they could bankroll from the interest from their offshore wealth alone,

I was hoping you could tell me what it’s about.
Why don’t you download the YouTube video?

I’ve just quickly scanned through it but my understanding is that they have designed a program to offer a full proof referendum and unless the UK/Scottish Gov offer a referendum they will do it.

They have also designed lots of online programmes to help YES groups things like a Ebay style site where YES groups can sell their goods, crowd funding, sites where groups can publish articles and eventually videos.

They do have a mandate for Scotland remaining in the Single Market: ” But if the SNP wins this election, we will demand that keeping Scotland in the
Single Market is made a part of the UK’s Brexit negotiations”.

Despite the usual not trying to throw up New Years day stuff Colin A, all your waffle goes pop, when we look over the sea about 50 miles to the east of Scotland, at European Union member nation state Republic of Ireland.

Do we really need to go into specifics, Colin A, you wet yoon fart, at even just the last month and how our imperial master baiters discovered the hard way, that the European Union member state Republic of Ireland, was infinitely more powerful than them.

TeamGB. We are going to have the UK/NI border that we want.

NI. No.

TeamGB. Ok, sorry.

Scotland. can we maybe stay a little bit in the EU, imperial master baiters?

I have only had one listen…but I think in his introduction he was getting at securing the vote while still under the protection of the ECJ,and with international observer’s of some discription!

I took that to mean that an ignored vote would be taken to court with the supporting documents that establish our Soverign right to hold one.
Also our claim that we have voted to remain members of the EU.
Which would establish our Sovereignty Internationally, force the EU into taking a position (while they’re negotiating with Westminster) and examine the vote to validate it!
That, I think, is the ” Threat ” if you like.
But also what is squeezing the time frame from the other end.

As you say Breeks establishing our Sovereignty in a public court is long overdue and I have never denied that.
Or that it’s one route to breaking the Treaty…. I have only ever said that is not the path we are on…..

This guy is more or less sayin the same thing…..IE should a vote be denied….. we’re gonnay dae it anyway without government permission or oversight…..and then we are going to take every step to get it recognised, because we’re Soverign and unlike Catilonia the Legal documents support that position.

As I have said to (mibbi you Breeks) somebody, before….
You don’t take your neighbour to court to stop them building a fence if they are not actually trying to build one,but your right not to have one built is still there.
This proposal is apparently ready to go,in the event our neighbors start building.

Having said that our Neighbors have always been very careful to leave us with the “impression” that we have always been able to leave anytime we want to and of course we in theory and in fact are…..till it actually looks like we are going to.
Sometimes I think that’s why a lot of Scots are so relaxed about it.
Westminster always makes out the will of the people is being carried out….. Northern Ireland, Falklands, Gibraltar ect..
As in….you recently had a referendum….true
Now is not the time…. mibbi later on
Once in a generation…. well there’s always another generation.
They never actually say No !

The point that most people do not get or refused to accept repeatedly is that the majority in Catalonia voted NO. Despite how much some outsiders would want and perceive it to be different. It is/was different. It is democratic to support that decision. 47% voted YES. Not enough to get over the line. Or to declare illegal UDI.

Ken 500 @ 11.57
Oh we get the point….but currently everyone is left with only the choice to recognise one of the two results…..

( For the purpose of this discussion around the proposal released last night
It’s the fact that there is a legal impediment to the vote and to any part of Spain leaving that’s the issue.)

And since we’re not Catilonian its a matter for them to work through,the only position that outsiders can (and as far as I can tell do ) take is in support of Democracy.
Settle the issue through the ballot box there is clearly a issue so get an answer….. simple…..the mess is only because the question is not being properly asked.
And shame on the Spanish government for that!

But we have no such issues…..the comparisons are around a vote being denied…..which would mean inventing reasons to do so,and our response to that!

I have only had one listen…but I think in his introduction he was getting at securing the vote while still under the protection of the ECJ,and with international observer’s of some description…

Yes, and I think that’s vital. We cannot wait until Brexit.

But my point is, why wait to appeal to judicial sources after the referendum that we know is likely going to be contested on constitutional grounds? Why not get the legal distinction in the bag, and squared away, before the ballot ever happens? That way we all know, Scotland, Westminster and the EU, what is at stake, and where the finish line is. Once upon a time, it was a commonly held belief that a simple SNP majority was the finishing line…

It troubles me that we satisfy ourselves that Constitutional justice is on our side, we have a history of Nation status, etc.etc.etc… Not because I think we are wrong, I do not, but because if you had asked a Catalonian Independentists before their referendum, I rather suspect they’d have said the same things we are currently saying, and they put all of their faith in democracy to swing international opinion. They took the gamble, and it didn’t work.

In the likely event Westminster will not agree to another Section 30 to recognise the referendum result, we require the same type of “probationary recognition” of our sovereign emancipation to come from somewhere else, – either the EU or the UN. When we go to the polls, even if we still don’t know whether Westminster will respect the result, we can afford to take that chance IF we have it in writing that the EU and UN automatically will recognise the result.

If we expect the EUCJ to intervene on our behalf after the event, then why not get that judgement taken to the bank before the event? Give me one good reason.

Because here’s the thing… For every increment we secure along the path towards Independence, there is an equal and opposite reaction. The more Sovereign we are recognised to be, the less Sovereign Westminster becomes.

And here’s the thing within a thing, as I’ve repeated a hundred times before, Sovereignty is an absolute binary condition. Yes/No, no maybe. Black/white, no grey. We are sovereign, or we are not.

So even though we are discussing Sovereignty as a provisional or transitional condition, I personally don’t think the EU Court of Justice will suffer consideration of any such interim condition. – If Scotland’s Sovereignty is proven, legal, legitimate and constitutionally robust, then it will be recognised as absolute condition with no ambiguity or obscurity. IF the EUCJ is satisfied Scotland’s claim to be sovereign is judged to be competent, then the EUCJ will effectively recognise Scotland as being a Sovereign Nation, and a Sovereign Nation by legal definition, with or without the democratic ratification of a referendum.

We could win Scotland’s Independence through Constitutional Law, and downgrade the IndyRef2 ballot to a ratification plebiscite. If we vote Yes, we vote Yes as a Sovereign Nation. If we vote No, we vote No as a Sovereign Nation. But if we do vote No, we do not forfeit our Sovereignty, but merely place ourselves into the abstract absurdity of a constitutional no-man-land. A very similar constitutional absurdity to where we have already been for the last 300 years.

Furthermore, IF the EUCJ made such a determination in our favour, then the Brexit process is dead in an instant because Michel Barnier suddenly does not have one sovereign interlocutor to negotiate with, but two.

If the EUCJ examined the case for Scottish Sovereign legitimacy before any referendum, it would put the Articles of the 1707 Union under the microscope.

If however the EUCJ was asked to make a ruling on Sovereignty after a referendum, and a YES result of course, then rather than deconstructing the 1707 Union, the Court would have the expedient alternative option of simply declaring the referendum result marked the Union being materially at an end.

@Ken500
Democracy is simply fairy dust states apply to themselves. One must look beneath the surface.
Neither the British or Spanish states are as functionally democratic as they pretend. We ought to be rightly sceptical when the demos words are flaunted by states with ‘form’. Their game is survival, Their integrity under threat the conventions of popular governance are easily discarded.

But Breeks the one thing that you don’t seem to have taken into account is that the 2014 referendum validated the 1707 Treaty agreement.

We The Sovereign Scots confirmed that we did indeed want to be bound by the terms and conditions of that Treaty.
Now I know that the debate was never framed that way,but in reality that’s what we did.

The only argument now is how long the.. Now.. legitimate Treaty will last.
And any court will look at what a reasonable “man” can infer.
So therefore how often could or should the issue reasonably be revisited ?

Our Soverign right to do so is not in dispute…..the precedent was set in 2014 and quite properly set by us.
We voted the people into Holyrood who said they would arrange a vote,and a vote happened.

So in theory our Sovereignty from a legal point of view is a non issue for the Courts,it was in place and working a few years back.

It’s only unless and until “that Sovereignty” is stymied by the politicians….and demonstrated to be constrained…that I could see a Court even trying to make a judgement on it.
Currently they would have the get out of declaring it a political issue,and,IMHO, they would use it.
Probably resulting in a media shit storm about how we “Lost” which most would believe.

Regarding the upholding of Scottish sovereignty. Personally, I would assert and act as if sovereign – as we are.

The UK Govt did not go to court to seek permission to exercise sovereignty within the EU when holding an EU Ref, they just did it. It was then up to the EU to legally challenge it, which they didn’t.

For the UK the legal issues were not the sovereignty, but the legal means of exercising it: Royal prerogative v WM parliament.

For Scotland, it’s a similar situation. S30 or no S30?

I would argue, MSPs are not the representatives of Scotland’s sovereignty. For Scotland, if the upholding of sovereignty is done via the FM and Scottish Govt, then this is choosing to act under devolution, The Scotland Act, which empowered MSPs to act as WM’s lackeys and nothing more. By this route legally, a S30 would be required for a legally binding indyref.

I would suggest Scotland’s MPs would be empowered to vote to decide if Scotland should remain in the EU or EEA.

However, they should have a democratic mandate for this from the sovereign people of Scotland. Fortunately, The SNP ones already have a mandate to:”Protect Scotland’s place in the single market and demand for the Scottish government a place at the table in Brexit negotiations.”

Clearly, that has not happened. I would suggest, Scotland’s MPs meet to discuss and vote on, if Scotland’s sovereignty has been upheld and respected, as a first step. If they vote that it appears Scotland’s sovereignty has not been upheld and respected.

The SNP ones also have a democratic mandate for an indyref: “Hold a second independence referendum “at the end of the Brexit process”

Scotland’s SNP MPs already have the power and the democratic mandate to demand to keep Scotland in the Single Market and instruct for an indyref to be held.

If anyone or any organisation, seeks to challenge that view, let them take the legal action to try and have the actions of the Scottish MPs declared as unlawful.

As I see it, the road is wide open to fighting to retain SCOTLAND’s Single Market membership and hold an indyref. But the SNP won’t take it. They are not using the power invested in Scottish MPs as the democratically elected representatives of Scottish sovereignty.

But Breeks the one thing that you don’t seem to have taken into account is that the 2014 referendum validated the 1707 Treaty agreement…

I don’t believe it did Liz. In 2014 the referendum options were for constitutional change, or no constitutional change – the status quo. The majority elected for the status quo.

The status quo however was, and remains, a constitutional dogs breakfast. A YES vote would ensured a revised constitutional arrangement, but the NO option was a constitutionally illiterate ratification of a 300 year old dogs breakfast.

In my opinion, Scotland needs to deconstruct this constitutional mess, strip away all ambiguity and unsubstantial adopted conventions, and determine what is legitimate and lawfully competent, and once the essential principles are thoroughly understood, rebuild Scotland’s sovereign constitution from first principles.

@Breeks / @Liz g
In theory there are two schools. One is to trust Sturgeon and the SNP to be totally aware of the situation and playing it carefully and correctly. The other is to be very wary and wonder why a Ref hasn’t been give a date already. With shades in-between, as to be blunt, blind trust is a fool’s game.

So at a tangent, this initiative by Forward as One who, from a posting by Ronnie Anderson I think it was, have had the help of 20 people worldwide to put together their plans, can be a bit of a half-way house we could all support.

To put together an online platform that is robust, can take huge demand, and has verificable integrity and security is a mammoth undertaking. But it would also have to be stress tested a few times before being actually ready for a referendum, and open for neutral inspection, and that’s where it could be used perhaps for online polling. Not the usual opinion poll of 1,026 or even 2,000 respondents, but tens and hundreds of thousands.

The results couldn’t be statistically valid as respondents would be self-selecting and the chances are unionists would avoid it, but the results could be used to get data – and publicity, and perhaps an advance acceptabilty, as long as it reports its results with all the neccessary caveats about the self-selection, where Indy supporters would be much more likely to use it.

Breeks @ 4.14
A constitutional dog breakfast it may be (and in that I totally agree ) but we voted for it.
And in law ignorance is no excuse.
Devo Max on the ballot may have “stripped away all the ambiguity” ect,in order to define it.
But they wouldn’t allow that to get on the ballot paper during the horse trading over the Edinburgh agreement.

They did say it during the 2014 campaign ….”why break up a 300 year old Union “…..so it was indeed a vote for the 1707 Treaty to remain in place.
The Nobles may have signed us up to it….but we have now agreed that it’s exactly what we want….and sadly some still do!
In fact what right has a Court to overrule that?
Only we …The Scot’s… can…but in attempting to do that, we can’t be stopped,the mandate is safe away at Holyrood.

Yesindyref2 @ 4.58
Well as Alex Salmon’s himself said after Indy ref 1 ” there are many roads to independence “so I don’t see anything wrong with exploring other options.
And its good to have a fall back plan but truly I don’t think we will need one

As you say yesindy2 the problem lies with trust , Nicola ( I hope ) must feel as frustrated as the rest of us , she must know and be aware that the establishment are twisted barstewards who will do ANYTHING to hogtie their rich neighbour for their own benefit.

I don’t envy her in this game of poker , her problem lays in the indy1 results , which we all know were nobbled . If she goes too early it gives the feckers a chance to get organised ( maybe even stopping brexshit ) seriously, which would probably scupper another indy vote which WE would all hate .

I like everybody else is desperately chomping at the bit , but I don’t want us to lose again by allowing the maybot wriggle room which she will have if we go too early

Nicola has to wait until the britnats have set out their stall in tablets of stone where it can’t be retreated from , that way people will know that the statis quo is no longer available and their ONLY choice is indy or staying with the STINKING SINKING SHIP.

In the meantime as you said yesindy2 the SG can be looking and trialing the proposals put forward by forwardasone

We are ALL aware that certain sections of our society will fight ( literally ) against independence no matter the outcome , so Nicola is taking that into consideration by attempting to assuage the concerns of the many by governing competently and hopefully negating the extremists

I personally wish it were not so , but when we win SCOTLAND will be a better place for peace and tranquillity and the extremists will be shamed and ostracised

@twathater
Pretty much, though the good thing is that less media attention on IR2 at the moment is probably a good thing, as people can move to YES almost subconciously – the way people were NO in the first place.

@Liz g says (about Forward As One): “Well it seems to be about an online system that will be used for voting if we are denied a referendum!
He has given a deadline of this September for one to be in place.
And an online information hub with fundraising that’s been tidied up.
Also a postal service with a buy and sell capacity.”

Thanks for that synopsis Liz G, Ronnie posted a youtube link on a later thread that worked for me of the 52 minute 40 second video, and I gave up after a minute and a half of New Year good wishes from someone I don’t know and an apology about the length. Needs an elevator pitch, 2 minutes tops. “We plan to …, next step is …, more information will be …” kerching, listener hooked.

Yesindyref2 @ 6.36
You’re welcome, I thought he went on a bit at the startas well!
But then I realised that was trying to speak as if there were “first” time listener’s.
Much like we try to do sometimes, Robert Peffers being the best example,he uses every opportunity to reiterate the how,when and why of the Union.
Which as you know needs a bit of space for the telling.
Anyhoo if you …just want ” the facts ” FBI style, LOL….
Start from 21min’s in.

The story of the list of donors to SiU reminds me so much of the list of who were paid to sign the treaty of Union in 1707.. I wonder if any are their ancestors – that would be interesting to find out 🙂

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