THERE are "very worrying trends developing" in the academic performance of children in their final years at primary school in the Bradford district, a committee will be told next week.

A breakdown of last year's Key Stage Two results show that gaps between Bradford and the national average are rising in the basic skills of maths and reading, and Bradford now lies in the bottom five of 152 local authorities for both subjects.

The warning follows a detailed annual analysis of school exam results which will be discussed by the Council's children's services scrutiny committee next week.

The report looks into how the district's schools performed last year, major issues schools are facing and what is being done to improve standards in the district.

Councillor Ralph Berry, the Council's portfolio holder for children's services, said there was a raft of measures in place to help improve the achievement of Bradford's young people, and there was a major push to prepare them for education even before they start school.

And politicians in the main three groups agree that parents need to play a much bigger part in their children's education before results significantly improve.

Although there are promising signs in some areas, the report describes the 2013 results for children sitting their final exams before they move on to secondary school as being "particularly disappointing".

Gaps between Bradford and the national average narrow in foundation stage when children first start school, but widen in tests for Key Stage One, taken by children aged six and seven, and Key Stage Two, taken by children aged eight to 11.

There is also "particular concern" about the pupils' performance at opposite ends of the scale of academic ability which range from children with special educational needs and those described as being the most able.

The district's primary schools are also seeing mixed results in Ofsted inspections. In July 2012, 65 per cent of Bradford's primary school pupils were taught in schools ranked as "good" or "outstanding" by Government inspectors, and while that figure rose to 82 per cent by the end of the last school year, it had fallen to 74 per cent by last month.

In most age groups throughout primary and secondary school, the best performing ethnic group are Indians, with Pakistani heritage children performing below the Bradford average.

Discussing Key Stage Two results, the report says: "In writing, Bradford's results have kept pace with national improvements but in reading and maths the gaps between Bradford's performance and the national figures has widened, leading to a decline in Bradford's rankings against other Local Authorities.

"This places Bradford in the bottom five local authorities in reading and maths."

Twenty four schools are now below the minimum Government standard for primary schools. The Department for Education has previously said that if these schools did not improve they could be forced to become academies.

Cllr Berry said the issues highlighted in the report were ones that the Council and schools had already recognised and were tackling head-on.

He took part in an open Education Forum, where parents could raise issues about education at City Hall yesterday, and one of the main topics for discussion was maths.

Cllr Berry said it was important that the best performing schools were recognised, and their practices were shared with other schools.

He added: "We have to make sure each school is working with its children, parents and community, and that schools have the extra support to do that. We have provided additional money for school improvements.

"There is no point in trying to shy away from some of these problems. By the time you get to Key Stage Four a lot of these issues have ironed out.

"We have to deal with a lot of issues early on, that is why we have supported projects like the National Literacy Hub and the Canterbury Imagination Library.

" A lot of the issues are to do with what the Born in Bradford Project has already highlighted, like the amount of time young people spend exercising and how much interaction they have with parents, things that will eventually help them in school.

"Something needs to be given by everyone to prepare children for schools. Schools and parents have to give them consistency, encouragement and support if we want children to do better.

"We have to get our young people ready for school, as well as improving the schools they go to.

"We are absolutely clear what our schools have to do. Ultimately it is about the quality of teaching."

He pointed out that in some schools in the city there was a large transient population, and at schools like Whetley Academy many pupils stayed for only a few years before moving on to other areas.

David Ward, Liberal Democrat MP for Bradford East, said: "English and maths are crucial to get a firm foundation.

"I'm sure in Bradford we have excellent examples of schools that are teaching these subjects to a high standard, and what we've got to do is share these techniques. Collaboration is far more important than competition."

Debbie Davies, the Council's Conservative group education spokesman, also felt that what pupils did out of school was just as important to improve standards.

She said: "Whatever they do at school needs to be supported at home. Maybe parents need more help with finding ways to do that.

"Parents should be encouraged to take their children to the library. There is only so much teachers can do in schools a most children learn a lot from home life. Their early years are absolutely vital and they need to love learning."

Kris Hopkins, Keighley Conservative MP, said: “Increasingly educational attainment levels was the absolute priority for me when I was Council leader and it must remain the priority for the district if it is to achieve its potential.

" We fought very hard at that time to win back the right for the Council to educate our children, and we cannot let them down.

"The current leadership of Bradford Council must use all resources at its disposal to respond to the educational challenges faced and responsibility also lies with parents.

"It is not just about sending our children off to schools. It is also about becoming personally involved in their educational development by assisting with reading and other forms of study at home to ensure they do their very best when in school.”

Councillor Malcolm Sykes, chairman of the scrutiny committee that will discuss the report, has already produced a 16-point plan to improve the performance of the district's schools, and he said he will continue pushing these points, even when schools do improve.

"These results just make these points more important and they are going to be followed through on," he said.

Cllr Sykes said one of the recommendations is that the Council looks at more than just league tables and exam results to see how schools are performing.

"I want us to be able to flesh out the things that schools do well that are sometimes ignored in reports like this," Cllr Sykes said.

"Just because Bradford isn't performing well in all areas doesn't mean that people aren't trying their hardest. The figures aren't the best, but we are hoping for a better result this year, we have to keep battling on."

While Councillor Sykes states "just because Bradford isn't performing well in all areas doesn't mean that the people are not trying their hardest" is to say the least, just an excuse. There has been more money given to some schools in Bradford than probably anywhere else in the country, which I do not think has made any difference over the years. I suggest that the people in charge now use some radical thinking to solve the problem. i.e. it would be good if the children started school speaking English, knowing how to eat properly and already toilet trained as to be honest this is the parents responsibility, not the teachers, then maybe the teachers can do what they are trained to do and spend more of their time teaching not "nurse maiding".

While Councillor Sykes states "just because Bradford isn't performing well in all areas doesn't mean that the people are not trying their hardest" is to say the least, just an excuse. There has been more money given to some schools in Bradford than probably anywhere else in the country, which I do not think has made any difference over the years. I suggest that the people in charge now use some radical thinking to solve the problem. i.e. it would be good if the children started school speaking English, knowing how to eat properly and already toilet trained as to be honest this is the parents responsibility, not the teachers, then maybe the teachers can do what they are trained to do and spend more of their time teaching not "nurse maiding".Yorkshire Lass

Well, well, what a strange choice of a classroom photograph for a supposed Bradford school. The pupils dont look like Bradford pupils do they? Perhaps the tan function on photoshop should have been applied to make it more realistic.

Well, well, what a strange choice of a classroom photograph for a supposed Bradford school. The pupils dont look like Bradford pupils do they? Perhaps the tan function on photoshop should have been applied to make it more realistic.LeftLongAgo

allannicho wrote:
We all know why this is without lengthy theories don't we?

yep, very strange, a pic of a school with asian writing on the sign !!, and which schools are the classroom pics from, hehe.
Every single person knows the reason for this report outcome, just not a single reporter dare say it :)

[quote][p][bold]allannicho[/bold] wrote:
We all know why this is without lengthy theories don't we?[/p][/quote]yep, very strange, a pic of a school with asian writing on the sign !!, and which schools are the classroom pics from, hehe.
Every single person knows the reason for this report outcome, just not a single reporter dare say it :)Bikerbeardy

Bradford bottom of the class, again. And as part of the usual ritual on these occasions the Council puts out a complacent holding statement "Just because Bradford isn't performing well in all areas doesn't mean that people aren't trying their hardest". It's the Council that needs to try harder. Unless the basics are attended to, Bradford will never regenerate.

Bradford bottom of the class, again. And as part of the usual ritual on these occasions the Council puts out a complacent holding statement "Just because Bradford isn't performing well in all areas doesn't mean that people aren't trying their hardest". It's the Council that needs to try harder. Unless the basics are attended to, Bradford will never regenerate.sorrow&anger

For how much longer are we going to have to go on reading stories like this before City Hall wakes up and does something. I see they are now blaming the parents. Fair enough, but where is the Council's program to educate to parents? They can't just sit around discussing 16 point plans for ever.

For how much longer are we going to have to go on reading stories like this before City Hall wakes up and does something. I see they are now blaming the parents. Fair enough, but where is the Council's program to educate to parents? They can't just sit around discussing 16 point plans for ever.FinlandStation

FinlandStation wrote:
For how much longer are we going to have to go on reading stories like this before City Hall wakes up and does something. I see they are now blaming the parents. Fair enough, but where is the Council's program to educate to parents? They can't just sit around discussing 16 point plans for ever.

They can and they will. This is Bradford. All talk and no action.

[quote][p][bold]FinlandStation[/bold] wrote:
For how much longer are we going to have to go on reading stories like this before City Hall wakes up and does something. I see they are now blaming the parents. Fair enough, but where is the Council's program to educate to parents? They can't just sit around discussing 16 point plans for ever.[/p][/quote]They can and they will. This is Bradford. All talk and no action.gouldengirl

I have just read a report that stated that both Indian & Chinese pupils are doing very well in schools, but of course we don't have many of these children in Brat'fud schools do we ! Maybe if Brat'fud pupils were taught ENGLISH basics before entering places of education , standards might improve despite what our learned Councillors preach us & continually CON into saying things are OK !

I have just read a report that stated that both Indian & Chinese pupils are doing very well in schools, but of course we don't have many of these children in Brat'fud schools do we ! Maybe if Brat'fud pupils were taught ENGLISH basics before entering places of education , standards might improve despite what our learned Councillors preach us & continually CON into saying things are OK !pww of idle

Until the honest facts can be spoken and wrote about all this a waste of time.
A large part of the blame must go to the parents, some of whom don't even speak English.
All the money going to the few again, I for one are sick and tired of it.

Until the honest facts can be spoken and wrote about all this a waste of time.
A large part of the blame must go to the parents, some of whom don't even speak English.
All the money going to the few again, I for one are sick and tired of it.alive and awake

Albion. wrote:
I think a return to separating the wheat from the chaff is the only solution.

Except that all studies have shown that grammar schools (which I presume you're referring to) have shown to have no impact on social mobility, improving the lives of poorer kids or making societies (local and national) more equal. Also, a more recent study has shown that poor kids from comps out perform peers from grammar and independent schools, are more likely to overachieve and more likely to complete their courses.

[quote][p][bold]Albion.[/bold] wrote:
I think a return to separating the wheat from the chaff is the only solution.[/p][/quote]Except that all studies have shown that grammar schools (which I presume you're referring to) have shown to have no impact on social mobility, improving the lives of poorer kids or making societies (local and national) more equal. Also, a more recent study has shown that poor kids from comps out perform peers from grammar and independent schools, are more likely to overachieve and more likely to complete their courses.JAtkinson

The children who achieve good reading skills at an early age are those who have ready access to books in the home, and whose parents read to the child. Ten minutes a day listening to your child read is ten minutes very well spent.

The children who achieve good reading skills at an early age are those who have ready access to books in the home, and whose parents read to the child. Ten minutes a day listening to your child read is ten minutes very well spent.buffetlegs

pww of idle wrote:
I have just read a report that stated that both Indian &amp; Chinese pupils are doing very well in schools, but of course we don't have many of these children in Brat'fud schools do we ! Maybe if Brat'fud pupils were taught ENGLISH basics before entering places of education , standards might improve despite what our learned Councillors preach us &amp; continually CON into saying things are OK !

Until the Muslims have the same aspirations for their children as the Chinese and Indians Bradford will never improve. We are being dragged down by third world habits and village politics.

[quote][p][bold]pww of idle[/bold] wrote:
I have just read a report that stated that both Indian & Chinese pupils are doing very well in schools, but of course we don't have many of these children in Brat'fud schools do we ! Maybe if Brat'fud pupils were taught ENGLISH basics before entering places of education , standards might improve despite what our learned Councillors preach us & continually CON into saying things are OK ![/p][/quote]Until the Muslims have the same aspirations for their children as the Chinese and Indians Bradford will never improve. We are being dragged down by third world habits and village politics.baildongreen

This is just another nail in Bradford’s coffin. It’s well known that one of the first things any company does before relocating is look at the educational league tables. We stand no chance. This is why the Cllr. Green’s efforts to set up an R&D science park at Buck Lane have failed and the site is filling up with metal bashers.

This is just another nail in Bradford’s coffin. It’s well known that one of the first things any company does before relocating is look at the educational league tables. We stand no chance. This is why the Cllr. Green’s efforts to set up an R&D science park at Buck Lane have failed and the site is filling up with metal bashers.bachtothefuture

Bradford's education system is again being bashed and, whilst their are plans in place to tackle this head on and no stone being left unturned etc, it's just words, words, words.

It used to be that Bradford was in the bottom half and but not near the bottom. The reason: London's schools filled the bottom places. Tony Blair then said it was a national "emergency" that London's schools were failing their students and poured resources, money and expertise, and now London's schools are amongst the best in how much value they add to their children's education and progress.

Now, though, it's generally poor northern kids whose education is not as good as it could be. Where's our emergency? Where's our national focus? Where's our money and expertise and resources to help our kids?

Nowhere.

Instead, we have to try and do the same thing as London did with a big budget and the government behind it, with no extra money, no support and no real desire from the national government.

Want to play the blame game? Blame the government for looking after kids on its doorstep but ignoring the problems of Bradford, Hull, North East, etc. not the kids who are being failed that government.

Bradford's education system is again being bashed and, whilst their are plans in place to tackle this head on and no stone being left unturned etc, it's just words, words, words.
It used to be that Bradford was in the bottom half and but not near the bottom. The reason: London's schools filled the bottom places. Tony Blair then said it was a national "emergency" that London's schools were failing their students and poured resources, money and expertise, and now London's schools are amongst the best in how much value they add to their children's education and progress.
Now, though, it's generally poor northern kids whose education is not as good as it could be. Where's our emergency? Where's our national focus? Where's our money and expertise and resources to help our kids?
Nowhere.
Instead, we have to try and do the same thing as London did with a big budget and the government behind it, with no extra money, no support and no real desire from the national government.
Want to play the blame game? Blame the government for looking after kids on its doorstep but ignoring the problems of Bradford, Hull, North East, etc. not the kids who are being failed that government.JAtkinson

Following years of stories like this it should be clear that the Council is out of its depth. They need to swallow their pride and call in outside help. The city cannot go on like this. Without a decent education system, regeneration is an illusion.

Following years of stories like this it should be clear that the Council is out of its depth. They need to swallow their pride and call in outside help. The city cannot go on like this. Without a decent education system, regeneration is an illusion.bluebluerobin

It has to be cultural.
Asians of Indian and Chinese heritage came to this country without outside help and worked hard to better their lives.
Lets say it, elephant in room, Mirpuris were brought here as part of a government deal for dams, and took the lowest grade unskilled jobs, and, with a continuing subcontinent village mentality along with restrictive judgement of elders who fear their loss of power, don't want an educated younger generation who will question their authority.
This sort of attitude takes more than 2 or 3 generations to change.

It has to be cultural.
Asians of Indian and Chinese heritage came to this country without outside help and worked hard to better their lives.
Lets say it, elephant in room, Mirpuris were brought here as part of a government deal for dams, and took the lowest grade unskilled jobs, and, with a continuing subcontinent village mentality along with restrictive judgement of elders who fear their loss of power, don't want an educated younger generation who will question their authority.
This sort of attitude takes more than 2 or 3 generations to change.Cooperlane2

After the next election when schools will be run by profit making companies stories like this will be a thing of the past. In a free market if a school has bad results the parents will move their child elsewhere. The problem with Bradford's schools is socialist interference.

After the next election when schools will be run by profit making companies stories like this will be a thing of the past. In a free market if a school has bad results the parents will move their child elsewhere. The problem with Bradford's schools is socialist interference.pcmanners

pww of idle wrote:
I have just read a report that stated that both Indian &amp; Chinese pupils are doing very well in schools, but of course we don't have many of these children in Brat'fud schools do we ! Maybe if Brat'fud pupils were taught ENGLISH basics before entering places of education , standards might improve despite what our learned Councillors preach us &amp; continually CON into saying things are OK !

Until the Muslims have the same aspirations for their children as the Chinese and Indians Bradford will never improve. We are being dragged down by third world habits and village politics.

Studies show that it is poor white kids, particularly boys, who perform least well in comparison to other ethic groups. Perhaps Das Kommentors should be arguing for a pogrom of Buttershaw, Ravenscliffe and other areas.

Again, many of London's boroughs' school are more diverse, have more non-white, non-British children who speak a greater range of languages, are less likely to speak speak English at home and be more transient with fewer years of formal education, yet they do much better than our kids. Why? The government doesn't give a **** about your kid failing, or your neighbour's kid (white, brown, Christian or Muslim) failing because we are not on their radar. London got the moeny to improve; London improve; the money flow was stopped because London's schools are done so job done.

[quote][p][bold]baildongreen[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]pww of idle[/bold] wrote:
I have just read a report that stated that both Indian & Chinese pupils are doing very well in schools, but of course we don't have many of these children in Brat'fud schools do we ! Maybe if Brat'fud pupils were taught ENGLISH basics before entering places of education , standards might improve despite what our learned Councillors preach us & continually CON into saying things are OK ![/p][/quote]Until the Muslims have the same aspirations for their children as the Chinese and Indians Bradford will never improve. We are being dragged down by third world habits and village politics.[/p][/quote]It's not immigrants we're against, it's the wrong type of immigrant? Bloomin' heck - UKIP meets British Rail.
Studies show that it is poor white kids, particularly boys, who perform least well in comparison to other ethic groups. Perhaps Das Kommentors should be arguing for a pogrom of Buttershaw, Ravenscliffe and other areas.
Again, many of London's boroughs' school are more diverse, have more non-white, non-British children who speak a greater range of languages, are less likely to speak speak English at home and be more transient with fewer years of formal education, yet they do much better than our kids. Why? The government doesn't give a **** about your kid failing, or your neighbour's kid (white, brown, Christian or Muslim) failing because we are not on their radar. London got the moeny to improve; London improve; the money flow was stopped because London's schools are done so job done.JAtkinson

allannicho wrote:
We all know why this is without lengthy theories don't we?

Yes! One has to learn and understand ENGLISH before one can READ and UNDERSTAND a maths text book. Whilst numbers are the same in any language without an understanding of the wrtten word (and therefore a number) it's a no hoper.
AND to blame teachers is outrageous, why is it some pupils can excel and others not?

[quote][p][bold]allannicho[/bold] wrote:
We all know why this is without lengthy theories don't we?[/p][/quote]Yes! One has to learn and understand ENGLISH before one can READ and UNDERSTAND a maths text book. Whilst numbers are the same in any language without an understanding of the wrtten word (and therefore a number) it's a no hoper.
AND to blame teachers is outrageous, why is it some pupils can excel and others not?yezboss

City Hall has allowed Bradford's schools to get into such a mess that only allocating massive resources is gong to help. The Council hasn't got that kind of money and the Tories certainly won't give it to them because they only want to help rich people. Our only hope is a Labour Government.

City Hall has allowed Bradford's schools to get into such a mess that only allocating massive resources is gong to help. The Council hasn't got that kind of money and the Tories certainly won't give it to them because they only want to help rich people. Our only hope is a Labour Government.Grumpygirl

Poor education leads to high unemployment which leads to social unrest which when mixed with religious extremism results in riots. The Council can have no higher priority job than fixing their educational failures. They need to find the money from somewhere. It would have been better if the Lottery cash had gone into education rather than Trident’s pockets.

Poor education leads to high unemployment which leads to social unrest which when mixed with religious extremism results in riots. The Council can have no higher priority job than fixing their educational failures. They need to find the money from somewhere. It would have been better if the Lottery cash had gone into education rather than Trident’s pockets.izzystillbreathing

allannicho wrote:
We all know why this is without lengthy theories don't we?

Yes! One has to learn and understand ENGLISH before one can READ and UNDERSTAND a maths text book. Whilst numbers are the same in any language without an understanding of the wrtten word (and therefore a number) it's a no hoper.
AND to blame teachers is outrageous, why is it some pupils can excel and others not?

Absolutely right !, not the teachers fault, my Mrs was asked last year by the local mini market owner if she could give private lessons to his 8 year old son whose was lagging behind in his math and literacy at school, said his english skills were not very good, this is a 8 YEAR OLD, just 1 example I know, but proves the point, it IS the parents fault, and to add to that, I was once told by a Asian woman who had lived in the UK for 30 years that english is the language of dogs !!, that is a true story, so if this is what they think of our language behind closed doors, the problem will never go away.

[quote][p][bold]yezboss[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]allannicho[/bold] wrote:
We all know why this is without lengthy theories don't we?[/p][/quote]Yes! One has to learn and understand ENGLISH before one can READ and UNDERSTAND a maths text book. Whilst numbers are the same in any language without an understanding of the wrtten word (and therefore a number) it's a no hoper.
AND to blame teachers is outrageous, why is it some pupils can excel and others not?[/p][/quote]Absolutely right !, not the teachers fault, my Mrs was asked last year by the local mini market owner if she could give private lessons to his 8 year old son whose was lagging behind in his math and literacy at school, said his english skills were not very good, this is a 8 YEAR OLD, just 1 example I know, but proves the point, it IS the parents fault, and to add to that, I was once told by a Asian woman who had lived in the UK for 30 years that english is the language of dogs !!, that is a true story, so if this is what they think of our language behind closed doors, the problem will never go away.Bikerbeardy

I always refer back to this post from the T&A in 2001 (before September) as the most common-sense piece of commentary (from an Indian Community leader) I have ever read on the oh-so-hard-done-by Muslim "community"
http://www.telegraph
.co.uk/news/uknews/1
333287/Muslim-parent
s-and-mosques-are-to
-blame-says-Hindu-le
ader.html
This was in the days when the T&A reported a bit more freely than they do in 2014. Quote:
"Comparing the behaviour of Hindu Indian children with their Muslim Pakistani counterparts, Mr Shah said: "They talk of economic deprivation, complain of the police and discrimination, but these are excuses. When Indians came to Britain, they suffered from the same conditions.
"They had a level playing field. Because of our hard work, perseverance and keeping our youth under control, Indian children are leading in the field of education today. The responsibility for taking control of Pakistani youths lies with their parents and community leaders.""

I always refer back to this post from the T&A in 2001 (before September) as the most common-sense piece of commentary (from an Indian Community leader) I have ever read on the oh-so-hard-done-by Muslim "community"
http://www.telegraph
.co.uk/news/uknews/1
333287/Muslim-parent
s-and-mosques-are-to
-blame-says-Hindu-le
ader.html
This was in the days when the T&A reported a bit more freely than they do in 2014. Quote:
"Comparing the behaviour of Hindu Indian children with their Muslim Pakistani counterparts, Mr Shah said: "They talk of economic deprivation, complain of the police and discrimination, but these are excuses. When Indians came to Britain, they suffered from the same conditions.
"They had a level playing field. Because of our hard work, perseverance and keeping our youth under control, Indian children are leading in the field of education today. The responsibility for taking control of Pakistani youths lies with their parents and community leaders.""Andy Mac

Albion. wrote:
I think a return to separating the wheat from the chaff is the only solution.

Except that all studies have shown that grammar schools (which I presume you're referring to) have shown to have no impact on social mobility, improving the lives of poorer kids or making societies (local and national) more equal. Also, a more recent study has shown that poor kids from comps out perform peers from grammar and independent schools, are more likely to overachieve and more likely to complete their courses.

You shouldn't assume things. Irrespective of parental wealth or status, some kids who just want to learn and get on are being held back by those who don't, and a lack of discipline to effectively control those who don't. We need good learners to fulfil the future needs of industry and technology, trying to teach all at the same level and syllabus doesn't work, especially when it's obvious that some are never going to amount to anything anyway. It's as stupid as filling our colleges with kids who are specialising in subjects that aren't going to be of much use in the workplace.

[quote][p][bold]JAtkinson[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Albion.[/bold] wrote:
I think a return to separating the wheat from the chaff is the only solution.[/p][/quote]Except that all studies have shown that grammar schools (which I presume you're referring to) have shown to have no impact on social mobility, improving the lives of poorer kids or making societies (local and national) more equal. Also, a more recent study has shown that poor kids from comps out perform peers from grammar and independent schools, are more likely to overachieve and more likely to complete their courses.[/p][/quote]You shouldn't assume things. Irrespective of parental wealth or status, some kids who just want to learn and get on are being held back by those who don't, and a lack of discipline to effectively control those who don't. We need good learners to fulfil the future needs of industry and technology, trying to teach all at the same level and syllabus doesn't work, especially when it's obvious that some are never going to amount to anything anyway. It's as stupid as filling our colleges with kids who are specialising in subjects that aren't going to be of much use in the workplace.Albion.

Andy Mac wrote:
I always refer back to this post from the T&amp;A in 2001 (before September) as the most common-sense piece of commentary (from an Indian Community leader) I have ever read on the oh-so-hard-done-by Muslim &quot;community" http://www.telegraph .co.uk/news/uknews/1 333287/Muslim-parent s-and-mosques-are-to -blame-says-Hindu-le ader.html This was in the days when the T&amp;A reported a bit more freely than they do in 2014. Quote: "Comparing the behaviour of Hindu Indian children with their Muslim Pakistani counterparts, Mr Shah said: "They talk of economic deprivation, complain of the police and discrimination, but these are excuses. When Indians came to Britain, they suffered from the same conditions. "They had a level playing field. Because of our hard work, perseverance and keeping our youth under control, Indian children are leading in the field of education today. The responsibility for taking control of Pakistani youths lies with their parents and community leaders.""

They don't have the balls to publish stories like that any more I'm afraid. They are just a weak, gutless organisation that pays lip service to an truly inept council.
The T&A could play apart in improving the Council by putting pressure on them, asking difficult questions, doing investigative journalism and actually bringing them to task. Instead they just rehash old stories and distribute Council propaganda. They don't represent the views or interests of most of the readership.
I hope someone at the T&A is reading this!

[quote][p][bold]Andy Mac[/bold] wrote:
I always refer back to this post from the T&A in 2001 (before September) as the most common-sense piece of commentary (from an Indian Community leader) I have ever read on the oh-so-hard-done-by Muslim "community" http://www.telegraph .co.uk/news/uknews/1 333287/Muslim-parent s-and-mosques-are-to -blame-says-Hindu-le ader.html This was in the days when the T&A reported a bit more freely than they do in 2014. Quote: "Comparing the behaviour of Hindu Indian children with their Muslim Pakistani counterparts, Mr Shah said: "They talk of economic deprivation, complain of the police and discrimination, but these are excuses. When Indians came to Britain, they suffered from the same conditions. "They had a level playing field. Because of our hard work, perseverance and keeping our youth under control, Indian children are leading in the field of education today. The responsibility for taking control of Pakistani youths lies with their parents and community leaders.""[/p][/quote]They don't have the balls to publish stories like that any more I'm afraid. They are just a weak, gutless organisation that pays lip service to an truly inept council.
The T&A could play apart in improving the Council by putting pressure on them, asking difficult questions, doing investigative journalism and actually bringing them to task. Instead they just rehash old stories and distribute Council propaganda. They don't represent the views or interests of most of the readership.
I hope someone at the T&A is reading this!Farsley Bantam

Albion. wrote:
I think a return to separating the wheat from the chaff is the only solution.

Except that all studies have shown that grammar schools (which I presume you're referring to) have shown to have no impact on social mobility, improving the lives of poorer kids or making societies (local and national) more equal. Also, a more recent study has shown that poor kids from comps out perform peers from grammar and independent schools, are more likely to overachieve and more likely to complete their courses.

An older Gentleman I know complains that they no longer have grammar schools. He came from a very poor background, typical Bradfordian, but was bright enough to pass his 11+ and go to grammar school. He went on to run his own business, employing local people, and contributing to society by paying taxes. His point is that the 11+ gave working class kids like him the opportunity to better themselves and create a brighter future.

[quote][p][bold]JAtkinson[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Albion.[/bold] wrote:
I think a return to separating the wheat from the chaff is the only solution.[/p][/quote]Except that all studies have shown that grammar schools (which I presume you're referring to) have shown to have no impact on social mobility, improving the lives of poorer kids or making societies (local and national) more equal. Also, a more recent study has shown that poor kids from comps out perform peers from grammar and independent schools, are more likely to overachieve and more likely to complete their courses.[/p][/quote]An older Gentleman I know complains that they no longer have grammar schools. He came from a very poor background, typical Bradfordian, but was bright enough to pass his 11+ and go to grammar school. He went on to run his own business, employing local people, and contributing to society by paying taxes. His point is that the 11+ gave working class kids like him the opportunity to better themselves and create a brighter future.BD16

Albion. wrote:
I think a return to separating the wheat from the chaff is the only solution.

Except that all studies have shown that grammar schools (which I presume you're referring to) have shown to have no impact on social mobility, improving the lives of poorer kids or making societies (local and national) more equal. Also, a more recent study has shown that poor kids from comps out perform peers from grammar and independent schools, are more likely to overachieve and more likely to complete their courses.

An older Gentleman I know complains that they no longer have grammar schools. He came from a very poor background, typical Bradfordian, but was bright enough to pass his 11+ and go to grammar school. He went on to run his own business, employing local people, and contributing to society by paying taxes. His point is that the 11+ gave working class kids like him the opportunity to better themselves and create a brighter future.

Grammar schools are common sense and seem obvious... until you look at the facts and studies. (Apologies for bringing facts and studies in as it seems they get voted down quite a lot - but hey-ho.)

The various meta-studies (ie studies that study thousands of other studies) have categorically shown that streaming, setting and dividing children according to a test does not work for the whole, and has little impact on the few. It has been proved that teaching children how to learn (metalearning or learning-to-learn), giving them the vocabulary of learning and having them discuss & reflect upon learning is best for learning and achievement. Also rating highly is the child-teacher relationship, especially having the children respect the teachers as teachers, which stems from another highly rated area: giving teachers the time to train and improve their practice. (Mr Gove and others could learn a little here, I think.) This again leads on to high quality feedback and time to improve and work on feedback (which again seems odd as we are moving to a winner-takes-all, one chance only exam system which bears no resemblance to the real world and how it works).

Amongst the lowest is setting and streaming, as I've said, but also another thing we think of as common sense and abvious: class sizes. There is very little difference in achievement (relative to starting point) for smaller, setted classes than larger, mixed ability classes. It sounds wrong but the evidence is there.

I know that there is anecdotal evidence fro grammar schools but, equally, you can look at multi-millionaires Duncan Ballantyne and Richard Branson who both left school without any qualifications and say that education is of no value if that can be achieved without it.

What is obvious from this article is that someone at central government needs to sit up, take notice and say that this is going to end. Academies is a uniquely foolish answer - what we need is a London Challenge style response which supports schools, teachers and students to be better, set firmly within the context of our unique (and neither insignificant nor insurmountable) challenges in Bradford. What is your MP doing to get the Dept. for Education doing something for us?

[quote][p][bold]BD16[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]JAtkinson[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Albion.[/bold] wrote:
I think a return to separating the wheat from the chaff is the only solution.[/p][/quote]Except that all studies have shown that grammar schools (which I presume you're referring to) have shown to have no impact on social mobility, improving the lives of poorer kids or making societies (local and national) more equal. Also, a more recent study has shown that poor kids from comps out perform peers from grammar and independent schools, are more likely to overachieve and more likely to complete their courses.[/p][/quote]An older Gentleman I know complains that they no longer have grammar schools. He came from a very poor background, typical Bradfordian, but was bright enough to pass his 11+ and go to grammar school. He went on to run his own business, employing local people, and contributing to society by paying taxes. His point is that the 11+ gave working class kids like him the opportunity to better themselves and create a brighter future.[/p][/quote]Grammar schools are common sense and seem obvious... until you look at the facts and studies. (Apologies for bringing facts and studies in as it seems they get voted down quite a lot - but hey-ho.)
The various meta-studies (ie studies that study thousands of other studies) have categorically shown that streaming, setting and dividing children according to a test does not work for the whole, and has little impact on the few. It has been proved that teaching children how to learn (metalearning or learning-to-learn), giving them the vocabulary of learning and having them discuss & reflect upon learning is best for learning and achievement. Also rating highly is the child-teacher relationship, especially having the children respect the teachers as teachers, which stems from another highly rated area: giving teachers the time to train and improve their practice. (Mr Gove and others could learn a little here, I think.) This again leads on to high quality feedback and time to improve and work on feedback (which again seems odd as we are moving to a winner-takes-all, one chance only exam system which bears no resemblance to the real world and how it works).
Amongst the lowest is setting and streaming, as I've said, but also another thing we think of as common sense and abvious: class sizes. There is very little difference in achievement (relative to starting point) for smaller, setted classes than larger, mixed ability classes. It sounds wrong but the evidence is there.
I know that there is anecdotal evidence fro grammar schools but, equally, you can look at multi-millionaires Duncan Ballantyne and Richard Branson who both left school without any qualifications and say that education is of no value if that can be achieved without it.
What is obvious from this article is that someone at central government needs to sit up, take notice and say that this is going to end. Academies is a uniquely foolish answer - what we need is a London Challenge style response which supports schools, teachers and students to be better, set firmly within the context of our unique (and neither insignificant nor insurmountable) challenges in Bradford. What is your MP doing to get the Dept. for Education doing something for us?JAtkinson

Albion. wrote:
I think a return to separating the wheat from the chaff is the only solution.

Except that all studies have shown that grammar schools (which I presume you're referring to) have shown to have no impact on social mobility, improving the lives of poorer kids or making societies (local and national) more equal. Also, a more recent study has shown that poor kids from comps out perform peers from grammar and independent schools, are more likely to overachieve and more likely to complete their courses.

An older Gentleman I know complains that they no longer have grammar schools. He came from a very poor background, typical Bradfordian, but was bright enough to pass his 11+ and go to grammar school. He went on to run his own business, employing local people, and contributing to society by paying taxes. His point is that the 11+ gave working class kids like him the opportunity to better themselves and create a brighter future.

By separating the bright pupils, one of the most disappointing things about the grammar schools was that they by default labelled everyone who didn't pass the 11+ "not bright" AT AGED 11. Now that cannot be right and proper.
It cannot be beyond our wit to devise a system that allows movement of pupils, that stretches them and ensures that ALL kids achieve their potential.
Unfortunately there lacks the political will to do so.

[quote][p][bold]BD16[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]JAtkinson[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Albion.[/bold] wrote:
I think a return to separating the wheat from the chaff is the only solution.[/p][/quote]Except that all studies have shown that grammar schools (which I presume you're referring to) have shown to have no impact on social mobility, improving the lives of poorer kids or making societies (local and national) more equal. Also, a more recent study has shown that poor kids from comps out perform peers from grammar and independent schools, are more likely to overachieve and more likely to complete their courses.[/p][/quote]An older Gentleman I know complains that they no longer have grammar schools. He came from a very poor background, typical Bradfordian, but was bright enough to pass his 11+ and go to grammar school. He went on to run his own business, employing local people, and contributing to society by paying taxes. His point is that the 11+ gave working class kids like him the opportunity to better themselves and create a brighter future.[/p][/quote]By separating the bright pupils, one of the most disappointing things about the grammar schools was that they by default labelled everyone who didn't pass the 11+ "not bright" AT AGED 11. Now that cannot be right and proper.
It cannot be beyond our wit to devise a system that allows movement of pupils, that stretches them and ensures that ALL kids achieve their potential.
Unfortunately there lacks the political will to do so.allinittogether

Cooperlane2 wrote:
It has to be cultural.
Asians of Indian and Chinese heritage came to this country without outside help and worked hard to better their lives.
Lets say it, elephant in room, Mirpuris were brought here as part of a government deal for dams, and took the lowest grade unskilled jobs, and, with a continuing subcontinent village mentality along with restrictive judgement of elders who fear their loss of power, don't want an educated younger generation who will question their authority.
This sort of attitude takes more than 2 or 3 generations to change.

Call me cynical but it will take more generations than that.

The Muslim culture in not being diluted but reinforced by faith schools. And what a culture! Fathers who prefer their sons to be able to recite the Koran rather than get good A levels and who don’t want their daughters educated at all. The parents’ religion is much more the problem than their inability with English.

[quote][p][bold]Cooperlane2[/bold] wrote:
It has to be cultural.
Asians of Indian and Chinese heritage came to this country without outside help and worked hard to better their lives.
Lets say it, elephant in room, Mirpuris were brought here as part of a government deal for dams, and took the lowest grade unskilled jobs, and, with a continuing subcontinent village mentality along with restrictive judgement of elders who fear their loss of power, don't want an educated younger generation who will question their authority.
This sort of attitude takes more than 2 or 3 generations to change.[/p][/quote]Call me cynical but it will take more generations than that.
The Muslim culture in not being diluted but reinforced by faith schools. And what a culture! Fathers who prefer their sons to be able to recite the Koran rather than get good A levels and who don’t want their daughters educated at all. The parents’ religion is much more the problem than their inability with English.SurprisedByJoyce

Andy Mac wrote:
I always refer back to this post from the T&amp;A in 2001 (before September) as the most common-sense piece of commentary (from an Indian Community leader) I have ever read on the oh-so-hard-done-by Muslim &quot;community"
http://www.telegraph

.co.uk/news/uknews/1

333287/Muslim-parent

s-and-mosques-are-to

-blame-says-Hindu-le

ader.html
This was in the days when the T&amp;A reported a bit more freely than they do in 2014. Quote:
"Comparing the behaviour of Hindu Indian children with their Muslim Pakistani counterparts, Mr Shah said: "They talk of economic deprivation, complain of the police and discrimination, but these are excuses. When Indians came to Britain, they suffered from the same conditions.
"They had a level playing field. Because of our hard work, perseverance and keeping our youth under control, Indian children are leading in the field of education today. The responsibility for taking control of Pakistani youths lies with their parents and community leaders.""

Thank you. I remember that article very well, I've just not been able to find it recently. Mr. Shah spoke more sense about Bradford's troubles than anybody has done since. Everything depends on the culture.

I hope the T&A takes note and does find some of its old courage and starts batting for Bradford.

[quote][p][bold]Andy Mac[/bold] wrote:
I always refer back to this post from the T&A in 2001 (before September) as the most common-sense piece of commentary (from an Indian Community leader) I have ever read on the oh-so-hard-done-by Muslim "community"
http://www.telegraph
.co.uk/news/uknews/1
333287/Muslim-parent
s-and-mosques-are-to
-blame-says-Hindu-le
ader.html
This was in the days when the T&A reported a bit more freely than they do in 2014. Quote:
"Comparing the behaviour of Hindu Indian children with their Muslim Pakistani counterparts, Mr Shah said: "They talk of economic deprivation, complain of the police and discrimination, but these are excuses. When Indians came to Britain, they suffered from the same conditions.
"They had a level playing field. Because of our hard work, perseverance and keeping our youth under control, Indian children are leading in the field of education today. The responsibility for taking control of Pakistani youths lies with their parents and community leaders.""[/p][/quote]Thank you. I remember that article very well, I've just not been able to find it recently. Mr. Shah spoke more sense about Bradford's troubles than anybody has done since. Everything depends on the culture.
I hope the T&A takes note and does find some of its old courage and starts batting for Bradford.izzystillbreathing

Cooperlane2 wrote:
It has to be cultural.
Asians of Indian and Chinese heritage came to this country without outside help and worked hard to better their lives.
Lets say it, elephant in room, Mirpuris were brought here as part of a government deal for dams, and took the lowest grade unskilled jobs, and, with a continuing subcontinent village mentality along with restrictive judgement of elders who fear their loss of power, don't want an educated younger generation who will question their authority.
This sort of attitude takes more than 2 or 3 generations to change.

Call me cynical but it will take more generations than that.

The Muslim culture in not being diluted but reinforced by faith schools. And what a culture! Fathers who prefer their sons to be able to recite the Koran rather than get good A levels and who don’t want their daughters educated at all. The parents’ religion is much more the problem than their inability with English.

Spot on, everyone knows this is true !

[quote][p][bold]SurprisedByJoyce[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Cooperlane2[/bold] wrote:
It has to be cultural.
Asians of Indian and Chinese heritage came to this country without outside help and worked hard to better their lives.
Lets say it, elephant in room, Mirpuris were brought here as part of a government deal for dams, and took the lowest grade unskilled jobs, and, with a continuing subcontinent village mentality along with restrictive judgement of elders who fear their loss of power, don't want an educated younger generation who will question their authority.
This sort of attitude takes more than 2 or 3 generations to change.[/p][/quote]Call me cynical but it will take more generations than that.
The Muslim culture in not being diluted but reinforced by faith schools. And what a culture! Fathers who prefer their sons to be able to recite the Koran rather than get good A levels and who don’t want their daughters educated at all. The parents’ religion is much more the problem than their inability with English.[/p][/quote]Spot on, everyone knows this is true !Bikerbeardy

Albion. wrote:
I think a return to separating the wheat from the chaff is the only solution.

Except that all studies have shown that grammar schools (which I presume you're referring to) have shown to have no impact on social mobility, improving the lives of poorer kids or making societies (local and national) more equal. Also, a more recent study has shown that poor kids from comps out perform peers from grammar and independent schools, are more likely to overachieve and more likely to complete their courses.

An older Gentleman I know complains that they no longer have grammar schools. He came from a very poor background, typical Bradfordian, but was bright enough to pass his 11+ and go to grammar school. He went on to run his own business, employing local people, and contributing to society by paying taxes. His point is that the 11+ gave working class kids like him the opportunity to better themselves and create a brighter future.

Grammar schools are common sense and seem obvious... until you look at the facts and studies. (Apologies for bringing facts and studies in as it seems they get voted down quite a lot - but hey-ho.)

The various meta-studies (ie studies that study thousands of other studies) have categorically shown that streaming, setting and dividing children according to a test does not work for the whole, and has little impact on the few. It has been proved that teaching children how to learn (metalearning or learning-to-learn), giving them the vocabulary of learning and having them discuss &amp; reflect upon learning is best for learning and achievement. Also rating highly is the child-teacher relationship, especially having the children respect the teachers as teachers, which stems from another highly rated area: giving teachers the time to train and improve their practice. (Mr Gove and others could learn a little here, I think.) This again leads on to high quality feedback and time to improve and work on feedback (which again seems odd as we are moving to a winner-takes-all, one chance only exam system which bears no resemblance to the real world and how it works).

Amongst the lowest is setting and streaming, as I've said, but also another thing we think of as common sense and abvious: class sizes. There is very little difference in achievement (relative to starting point) for smaller, setted classes than larger, mixed ability classes. It sounds wrong but the evidence is there.

I know that there is anecdotal evidence fro grammar schools but, equally, you can look at multi-millionaires Duncan Ballantyne and Richard Branson who both left school without any qualifications and say that education is of no value if that can be achieved without it.

What is obvious from this article is that someone at central government needs to sit up, take notice and say that this is going to end. Academies is a uniquely foolish answer - what we need is a London Challenge style response which supports schools, teachers and students to be better, set firmly within the context of our unique (and neither insignificant nor insurmountable) challenges in Bradford. What is your MP doing to get the Dept. for Education doing something for us?

For every Branson or Ballantyne there'll be 1000's of kids who will be left in the quagmire of benfits and long term unemployment.

What they prove is that education isn't the be all and end all, it is attitude. Unfortunately, lots of kids are not instilled with any sort of positive attitude from their parent(s) and are doomed unless, by some fluke, they find their own way.

The only way to change atitudes if through the parents. Whether it's reading to/with them, teaching them English, encouraging them to study, teching them respect and right from wrong etc... you can only teach kids, in school, who want to be taught, and their attitude to education is entirely down to the parents!

[quote][p][bold]JAtkinson[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]BD16[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]JAtkinson[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Albion.[/bold] wrote:
I think a return to separating the wheat from the chaff is the only solution.[/p][/quote]Except that all studies have shown that grammar schools (which I presume you're referring to) have shown to have no impact on social mobility, improving the lives of poorer kids or making societies (local and national) more equal. Also, a more recent study has shown that poor kids from comps out perform peers from grammar and independent schools, are more likely to overachieve and more likely to complete their courses.[/p][/quote]An older Gentleman I know complains that they no longer have grammar schools. He came from a very poor background, typical Bradfordian, but was bright enough to pass his 11+ and go to grammar school. He went on to run his own business, employing local people, and contributing to society by paying taxes. His point is that the 11+ gave working class kids like him the opportunity to better themselves and create a brighter future.[/p][/quote]Grammar schools are common sense and seem obvious... until you look at the facts and studies. (Apologies for bringing facts and studies in as it seems they get voted down quite a lot - but hey-ho.)
The various meta-studies (ie studies that study thousands of other studies) have categorically shown that streaming, setting and dividing children according to a test does not work for the whole, and has little impact on the few. It has been proved that teaching children how to learn (metalearning or learning-to-learn), giving them the vocabulary of learning and having them discuss & reflect upon learning is best for learning and achievement. Also rating highly is the child-teacher relationship, especially having the children respect the teachers as teachers, which stems from another highly rated area: giving teachers the time to train and improve their practice. (Mr Gove and others could learn a little here, I think.) This again leads on to high quality feedback and time to improve and work on feedback (which again seems odd as we are moving to a winner-takes-all, one chance only exam system which bears no resemblance to the real world and how it works).
Amongst the lowest is setting and streaming, as I've said, but also another thing we think of as common sense and abvious: class sizes. There is very little difference in achievement (relative to starting point) for smaller, setted classes than larger, mixed ability classes. It sounds wrong but the evidence is there.
I know that there is anecdotal evidence fro grammar schools but, equally, you can look at multi-millionaires Duncan Ballantyne and Richard Branson who both left school without any qualifications and say that education is of no value if that can be achieved without it.
What is obvious from this article is that someone at central government needs to sit up, take notice and say that this is going to end. Academies is a uniquely foolish answer - what we need is a London Challenge style response which supports schools, teachers and students to be better, set firmly within the context of our unique (and neither insignificant nor insurmountable) challenges in Bradford. What is your MP doing to get the Dept. for Education doing something for us?[/p][/quote]For every Branson or Ballantyne there'll be 1000's of kids who will be left in the quagmire of benfits and long term unemployment.
What they prove is that education isn't the be all and end all, it is attitude. Unfortunately, lots of kids are not instilled with any sort of positive attitude from their parent(s) and are doomed unless, by some fluke, they find their own way.
The only way to change atitudes if through the parents. Whether it's reading to/with them, teaching them English, encouraging them to study, teching them respect and right from wrong etc... you can only teach kids, in school, who want to be taught, and their attitude to education is entirely down to the parents!Bone_idle18

Apollo wrote:
How much time are these children spending in madrassas being brain washed instead of reading, writing and doing other school work - in English?

It's not only Pakistani heritage kids that are struggling. Look what successive generations of white, non working class, kids are doing as well. We need to raise standards across the board and not target one specific group.

[quote][p][bold]Apollo[/bold] wrote:
How much time are these children spending in madrassas being brain washed instead of reading, writing and doing other school work - in English?[/p][/quote]It's not only Pakistani heritage kids that are struggling. Look what successive generations of white, non working class, kids are doing as well. We need to raise standards across the board and not target one specific group.BD16

Yesterday they were saying working white kids need help, citing that the help given to ethnic kids has helped them improve.

Today they are saying the entire district is just plain bad.

So which is it? Are ethnic kids doing badly, working white kids, or everyone?! Or could it actually be the education system itself.....

Yesterday they were saying working white kids need help, citing that the help given to ethnic kids has helped them improve.
Today they are saying the entire district is just plain bad.
So which is it? Are ethnic kids doing badly, working white kids, or everyone?! Or could it actually be the education system itself.....justjustice

'We don't need no education': a popular refrain in the early eighties. We've been failing kids for years. School's not cool. Being clever gets you bullied. No matter what colour we are, until we start seeing knowledge as freedom, power and strength, we will continue to fail. And that means that parents need to set an example and expectations.

It's unfair to target Muslim kids - there are plenty of white kids with no hope. Why would you work hard to go to university, knowing that you'll leave with £40k of debt and no guarantee of a job. There has to be something to look forward to, there has to be a reward in sight for doing it right, and cleverness has to be seen as a superpower, not just a reason to kick someone's head in because you feel inadequate next to them.

The biggest barrier to success is the lack of desire to succeed.
'We don't need no education': a popular refrain in the early eighties. We've been failing kids for years. School's not cool. Being clever gets you bullied. No matter what colour we are, until we start seeing knowledge as freedom, power and strength, we will continue to fail. And that means that parents need to set an example and expectations.
It's unfair to target Muslim kids - there are plenty of white kids with no hope. Why would you work hard to go to university, knowing that you'll leave with £40k of debt and no guarantee of a job. There has to be something to look forward to, there has to be a reward in sight for doing it right, and cleverness has to be seen as a superpower, not just a reason to kick someone's head in because you feel inadequate next to them.mrs walker

Yorkshire Lass wrote:
While Councillor Sykes states &quot;just because Bradford isn't performing well in all areas doesn't mean that the people are not trying their hardest" is to say the least, just an excuse. There has been more money given to some schools in Bradford than probably anywhere else in the country, which I do not think has made any difference over the years. I suggest that the people in charge now use some radical thinking to solve the problem. i.e. it would be good if the children started school speaking English, knowing how to eat properly and already toilet trained as to be honest this is the parents responsibility, not the teachers, then maybe the teachers can do what they are trained to do and spend more of their time teaching not "nurse maiding".

We were advised by a teacher at Wellington school to transfer our grandson to another school as soon has possible.The reason been that she was spending more time trying to nappy train non engish speaking rather than educating others.Thankfully we managed to do this.

[quote][p][bold]Yorkshire Lass[/bold] wrote:
While Councillor Sykes states "just because Bradford isn't performing well in all areas doesn't mean that the people are not trying their hardest" is to say the least, just an excuse. There has been more money given to some schools in Bradford than probably anywhere else in the country, which I do not think has made any difference over the years. I suggest that the people in charge now use some radical thinking to solve the problem. i.e. it would be good if the children started school speaking English, knowing how to eat properly and already toilet trained as to be honest this is the parents responsibility, not the teachers, then maybe the teachers can do what they are trained to do and spend more of their time teaching not "nurse maiding".[/p][/quote]We were advised by a teacher at Wellington school to transfer our grandson to another school as soon has possible.The reason been that she was spending more time trying to nappy train non engish speaking rather than educating others.Thankfully we managed to do this.football1

pww of idle wrote:
I have just read a report that stated that both Indian &amp; Chinese pupils are doing very well in schools, but of course we don't have many of these children in Brat'fud schools do we ! Maybe if Brat'fud pupils were taught ENGLISH basics before entering places of education , standards might improve despite what our learned Councillors preach us &amp; continually CON into saying things are OK !

Until the Muslims have the same aspirations for their children as the Chinese and Indians Bradford will never improve. We are being dragged down by third world habits and village politics.

Studies show that it is poor white kids, particularly boys, who perform least well in comparison to other ethic groups. Perhaps Das Kommentors should be arguing for a pogrom of Buttershaw, Ravenscliffe and other areas.

Again, many of London's boroughs' school are more diverse, have more non-white, non-British children who speak a greater range of languages, are less likely to speak speak English at home and be more transient with fewer years of formal education, yet they do much better than our kids. Why? The government doesn't give a **** about your kid failing, or your neighbour's kid (white, brown, Christian or Muslim) failing because we are not on their radar. London got the moeny to improve; London improve; the money flow was stopped because London's schools are done so job done.

what about your english?
when spelling goes wrong!
ha ha!

[quote][p][bold]JAtkinson[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]baildongreen[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]pww of idle[/bold] wrote:
I have just read a report that stated that both Indian & Chinese pupils are doing very well in schools, but of course we don't have many of these children in Brat'fud schools do we ! Maybe if Brat'fud pupils were taught ENGLISH basics before entering places of education , standards might improve despite what our learned Councillors preach us & continually CON into saying things are OK ![/p][/quote]Until the Muslims have the same aspirations for their children as the Chinese and Indians Bradford will never improve. We are being dragged down by third world habits and village politics.[/p][/quote]It's not immigrants we're against, it's the wrong type of immigrant? Bloomin' heck - UKIP meets British Rail.
Studies show that it is poor white kids, particularly boys, who perform least well in comparison to other ethic groups. Perhaps Das Kommentors should be arguing for a pogrom of Buttershaw, Ravenscliffe and other areas.
Again, many of London's boroughs' school are more diverse, have more non-white, non-British children who speak a greater range of languages, are less likely to speak speak English at home and be more transient with fewer years of formal education, yet they do much better than our kids. Why? The government doesn't give a **** about your kid failing, or your neighbour's kid (white, brown, Christian or Muslim) failing because we are not on their radar. London got the moeny to improve; London improve; the money flow was stopped because London's schools are done so job done.[/p][/quote]what about your english?
when spelling goes wrong!
ha ha!tinytoonster

Grumpygirl wrote:
City Hall has allowed Bradford's schools to get into such a mess that only allocating massive resources is gong to help. The Council hasn't got that kind of money and the Tories certainly won't give it to them because they only want to help rich people. Our only hope is a Labour Government.

codswallop!

[quote][p][bold]Grumpygirl[/bold] wrote:
City Hall has allowed Bradford's schools to get into such a mess that only allocating massive resources is gong to help. The Council hasn't got that kind of money and the Tories certainly won't give it to them because they only want to help rich people. Our only hope is a Labour Government.[/p][/quote]codswallop!tinytoonster

justjustice wrote:
Yesterday they were saying working white kids need help, citing that the help given to ethnic kids has helped them improve.

Today they are saying the entire district is just plain bad.

So which is it? Are ethnic kids doing badly, working white kids, or everyone?! Or could it actually be the education system itself.....

i noticed using the phrase white was not complained about as being racist but if they had said black all hell would have broken out!!

[quote][p][bold]justjustice[/bold] wrote:
Yesterday they were saying working white kids need help, citing that the help given to ethnic kids has helped them improve.
Today they are saying the entire district is just plain bad.
So which is it? Are ethnic kids doing badly, working white kids, or everyone?! Or could it actually be the education system itself.....[/p][/quote]i noticed using the phrase white was not complained about as being racist but if they had said black all hell would have broken out!!tinytoonster

Grumpygirl wrote:
City Hall has allowed Bradford's schools to get into such a mess that only allocating massive resources is gong to help. The Council hasn't got that kind of money and the Tories certainly won't give it to them because they only want to help rich people. Our only hope is a Labour Government.

codswallop!

Hi Tiny, which bit is codswallop:_
a) City Hall has allowed Bradford's schools to get into a mess
b) it will take a lot of resources to sort the problem
c) the Council hasn't got a lot of money to spare
d) Government handouts are unlikely because of Bradford’s socio-political profile
e) Labour is more likely to help Bradford than the Tories?

[quote][p][bold]tinytoonster[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Grumpygirl[/bold] wrote:
City Hall has allowed Bradford's schools to get into such a mess that only allocating massive resources is gong to help. The Council hasn't got that kind of money and the Tories certainly won't give it to them because they only want to help rich people. Our only hope is a Labour Government.[/p][/quote]codswallop![/p][/quote]Hi Tiny, which bit is codswallop:_
a) City Hall has allowed Bradford's schools to get into a mess
b) it will take a lot of resources to sort the problem
c) the Council hasn't got a lot of money to spare
d) Government handouts are unlikely because of Bradford’s socio-political profile
e) Labour is more likely to help Bradford than the Tories?FinlandStation

Yorkshire Lass wrote:
While Councillor Sykes states &quot;just because Bradford isn't performing well in all areas doesn't mean that the people are not trying their hardest" is to say the least, just an excuse. There has been more money given to some schools in Bradford than probably anywhere else in the country, which I do not think has made any difference over the years. I suggest that the people in charge now use some radical thinking to solve the problem. i.e. it would be good if the children started school speaking English, knowing how to eat properly and already toilet trained as to be honest this is the parents responsibility, not the teachers, then maybe the teachers can do what they are trained to do and spend more of their time teaching not "nurse maiding".

Well if even the school name has to signposted in 3 languages

[quote][p][bold]Yorkshire Lass[/bold] wrote:
While Councillor Sykes states "just because Bradford isn't performing well in all areas doesn't mean that the people are not trying their hardest" is to say the least, just an excuse. There has been more money given to some schools in Bradford than probably anywhere else in the country, which I do not think has made any difference over the years. I suggest that the people in charge now use some radical thinking to solve the problem. i.e. it would be good if the children started school speaking English, knowing how to eat properly and already toilet trained as to be honest this is the parents responsibility, not the teachers, then maybe the teachers can do what they are trained to do and spend more of their time teaching not "nurse maiding".[/p][/quote]Well if even the school name has to signposted in 3 languagesColin Allcars

It depends on the races perhaps. My class had kids with parents from Poland, Italy, Ukraine, Ireland, Estonia, Jamaica and even ...England. There was no need for classroom assistants and interpretors, because their parents wanted their children to be successful.
But if you want your son to get a job as a very part-time late-night pizza/kebab/curry/bu
rger/icecream delivery driver or an unskilled cook in a labour intensive but low customer volume take-away then Bradford's the place, there's thousands doing that

[quote][p][bold]AHS[/bold] wrote:
Looks like Ray Honeyford was right. You can't teach multi racial classes.[/p][/quote]It depends on the races perhaps. My class had kids with parents from Poland, Italy, Ukraine, Ireland, Estonia, Jamaica and even ...England. There was no need for classroom assistants and interpretors, because their parents wanted their children to be successful.
But if you want your son to get a job as a very part-time late-night pizza/kebab/curry/bu
rger/icecream delivery driver or an unskilled cook in a labour intensive but low customer volume take-away then Bradford's the place, there's thousands doing thatColin Allcars

Andy Mac wrote:
I always refer back to this post from the T&amp;A in 2001 (before September) as the most common-sense piece of commentary (from an Indian Community leader) I have ever read on the oh-so-hard-done-by Muslim &quot;community"
http://www.telegraph

.co.uk/news/uknews/1

333287/Muslim-parent

s-and-mosques-are-to

-blame-says-Hindu-le

ader.html
This was in the days when the T&amp;A reported a bit more freely than they do in 2014. Quote:
"Comparing the behaviour of Hindu Indian children with their Muslim Pakistani counterparts, Mr Shah said: "They talk of economic deprivation, complain of the police and discrimination, but these are excuses. When Indians came to Britain, they suffered from the same conditions.
"They had a level playing field. Because of our hard work, perseverance and keeping our youth under control, Indian children are leading in the field of education today. The responsibility for taking control of Pakistani youths lies with their parents and community leaders.""

Didn't a T&A reporter suggest that the self ghettoing mentality of Pakistanis was a factor in the Bradford racist riots?

[quote][p][bold]Andy Mac[/bold] wrote:
I always refer back to this post from the T&A in 2001 (before September) as the most common-sense piece of commentary (from an Indian Community leader) I have ever read on the oh-so-hard-done-by Muslim "community"
http://www.telegraph
.co.uk/news/uknews/1
333287/Muslim-parent
s-and-mosques-are-to
-blame-says-Hindu-le
ader.html
This was in the days when the T&A reported a bit more freely than they do in 2014. Quote:
"Comparing the behaviour of Hindu Indian children with their Muslim Pakistani counterparts, Mr Shah said: "They talk of economic deprivation, complain of the police and discrimination, but these are excuses. When Indians came to Britain, they suffered from the same conditions.
"They had a level playing field. Because of our hard work, perseverance and keeping our youth under control, Indian children are leading in the field of education today. The responsibility for taking control of Pakistani youths lies with their parents and community leaders.""[/p][/quote]Didn't a T&A reporter suggest that the self ghettoing mentality of Pakistanis was a factor in the Bradford racist riots?Colin Allcars

Grumpygirl wrote:
City Hall has allowed Bradford's schools to get into such a mess that only allocating massive resources is gong to help. The Council hasn't got that kind of money and the Tories certainly won't give it to them because they only want to help rich people. Our only hope is a Labour Government.

codswallop!

Hi Tiny, which bit is codswallop:_
a) City Hall has allowed Bradford's schools to get into a mess
b) it will take a lot of resources to sort the problem
c) the Council hasn't got a lot of money to spare
d) Government handouts are unlikely because of Bradford’s socio-political profile
e) Labour is more likely to help Bradford than the Tories?

c and e obviously.
tories have been in power four years, bradford been the same for over ten years!
got enough money to pay union subsidies and build puddles!

[quote][p][bold]FinlandStation[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]tinytoonster[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Grumpygirl[/bold] wrote:
City Hall has allowed Bradford's schools to get into such a mess that only allocating massive resources is gong to help. The Council hasn't got that kind of money and the Tories certainly won't give it to them because they only want to help rich people. Our only hope is a Labour Government.[/p][/quote]codswallop![/p][/quote]Hi Tiny, which bit is codswallop:_
a) City Hall has allowed Bradford's schools to get into a mess
b) it will take a lot of resources to sort the problem
c) the Council hasn't got a lot of money to spare
d) Government handouts are unlikely because of Bradford’s socio-political profile
e) Labour is more likely to help Bradford than the Tories?[/p][/quote]c and e obviously.
tories have been in power four years, bradford been the same for over ten years!
got enough money to pay union subsidies and build puddles!tinytoonster

you mean like t&a showing only white schoolkids which are obviously not from manningham school!
talk about painting a blatant false picture.

[quote][p][bold]Robin of Loxley[/bold] wrote:
Vile Islamophobes out in full force I see...[/p][/quote]you mean like t&a showing only white schoolkids which are obviously not from manningham school!
talk about painting a blatant false picture.tinytoonster

[quote][p][bold]FinlandStation[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Robin of Loxley[/bold] wrote:
Vile Islamophobes out in full force I see...[/p][/quote]Hi Hoffster, nice to have you back.[/p][/quote]Thanks buddy.Robin of Loxley

[quote][p][bold]tinytoonster[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Robin of Loxley[/bold] wrote:
Vile Islamophobes out in full force I see...[/p][/quote]you mean like t&a showing only white schoolkids which are obviously not from manningham school!
talk about painting a blatant false picture.[/p][/quote]Here; read this :
"Poor white children are ‘bottom of the class’ compared to other ethnic backgrounds"
http://www.express.c
o.uk/news/uk/483145/
Poor-white-children-
are-bottom-of-the-cl
****
-------------
That more or less sums up Bradford.Robin of Loxley

Aren't you going to tell us how you manage to vote for yourself so many times? Please.

Any sign of bcfc today?

[quote][p][bold]Robin of Loxley[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]FinlandStation[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Robin of Loxley[/bold] wrote:
Vile Islamophobes out in full force I see...[/p][/quote]Hi Hoffster, nice to have you back.[/p][/quote]Thanks buddy.[/p][/quote]I'm a married lady.
Aren't you going to tell us how you manage to vote for yourself so many times? Please.
Any sign of bcfc today?FinlandStation

Aren't you going to tell us how you manage to vote for yourself so many times? Please.

Any sign of bcfc today?

He/She/It is probably over on the Sty Lane thread saying what a great job the Council did approving all those houses.

[quote][p][bold]FinlandStation[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Robin of Loxley[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]FinlandStation[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Robin of Loxley[/bold] wrote:
Vile Islamophobes out in full force I see...[/p][/quote]Hi Hoffster, nice to have you back.[/p][/quote]Thanks buddy.[/p][/quote]I'm a married lady.
Aren't you going to tell us how you manage to vote for yourself so many times? Please.
Any sign of bcfc today?[/p][/quote]He/She/It is probably over on the Sty Lane thread saying what a great job the Council did approving all those houses.BaildonGuy

Andy Mac wrote:
I always refer back to this post from the T&amp;A in 2001 (before September) as the most common-sense piece of commentary (from an Indian Community leader) I have ever read on the oh-so-hard-done-by Muslim &quot;community"
http://www.telegraph

.co.uk/news/uknews/1

333287/Muslim-parent

s-and-mosques-are-to

-blame-says-Hindu-le

ader.html
This was in the days when the T&amp;A reported a bit more freely than they do in 2014. Quote:
"Comparing the behaviour of Hindu Indian children with their Muslim Pakistani counterparts, Mr Shah said: "They talk of economic deprivation, complain of the police and discrimination, but these are excuses. When Indians came to Britain, they suffered from the same conditions.
"They had a level playing field. Because of our hard work, perseverance and keeping our youth under control, Indian children are leading in the field of education today. The responsibility for taking control of Pakistani youths lies with their parents and community leaders.""

Didn't a T&amp;A reporter suggest that the self ghettoing mentality of Pakistanis was a factor in the Bradford racist riots?

Yes. He did. And it's true. The Mirpuri Muslims have always turned inwards. I think they're afraid western values will corrupt them. In which case they should never have come over here in the first place.

[quote][p][bold]Colin Allcars[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Andy Mac[/bold] wrote:
I always refer back to this post from the T&A in 2001 (before September) as the most common-sense piece of commentary (from an Indian Community leader) I have ever read on the oh-so-hard-done-by Muslim "community"
http://www.telegraph
.co.uk/news/uknews/1
333287/Muslim-parent
s-and-mosques-are-to
-blame-says-Hindu-le
ader.html
This was in the days when the T&A reported a bit more freely than they do in 2014. Quote:
"Comparing the behaviour of Hindu Indian children with their Muslim Pakistani counterparts, Mr Shah said: "They talk of economic deprivation, complain of the police and discrimination, but these are excuses. When Indians came to Britain, they suffered from the same conditions.
"They had a level playing field. Because of our hard work, perseverance and keeping our youth under control, Indian children are leading in the field of education today. The responsibility for taking control of Pakistani youths lies with their parents and community leaders.""[/p][/quote]Didn't a T&A reporter suggest that the self ghettoing mentality of Pakistanis was a factor in the Bradford racist riots?[/p][/quote]Yes. He did. And it's true. The Mirpuri Muslims have always turned inwards. I think they're afraid western values will corrupt them. In which case they should never have come over here in the first place.izzystillbreathing

Aren't you going to tell us how you manage to vote for yourself so many times? Please.

Any sign of bcfc today?

Hi Ms Station.

As mentioned previously, all you need is about 100 of your supporters on here and they shouldn't have a problem in voting for you :)

BTW, what did you think of that link I gave earlier ?

[quote][p][bold]FinlandStation[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Robin of Loxley[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]FinlandStation[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Robin of Loxley[/bold] wrote:
Vile Islamophobes out in full force I see...[/p][/quote]Hi Hoffster, nice to have you back.[/p][/quote]Thanks buddy.[/p][/quote]I'm a married lady.
Aren't you going to tell us how you manage to vote for yourself so many times? Please.
Any sign of bcfc today?[/p][/quote]Hi Ms Station.
As mentioned previously, all you need is about 100 of your supporters on here and they shouldn't have a problem in voting for you :)
BTW, what did you think of that link I gave earlier ?Robin of Loxley

the shortening of school days, used to be 08.50 to 16,00, mean less hours in a day to teach, quite a considerable loss of teaching hours over a year. Snow day closures, teacher training days & strike days all have an adverse effect on education. If a child isn`t toilet trained, able to eat with cutlery or speak English then then the parents should have to attend parenting skills. This would be cheaper to operate and less disruptive than being the `problem` to be resolved by the `education system`

the shortening of school days, used to be 08.50 to 16,00, mean less hours in a day to teach, quite a considerable loss of teaching hours over a year. Snow day closures, teacher training days & strike days all have an adverse effect on education. If a child isn`t toilet trained, able to eat with cutlery or speak English then then the parents should have to attend parenting skills. This would be cheaper to operate and less disruptive than being the `problem` to be resolved by the `education system`micela22

The Indian community were mainly middle class and upper working class from East Africa. They became successful irrelevant of their religion (the Muslims from East Africa were as successful as the Hindus). The Pakistani mainly peasant heritage . Nothing is simple, how background and events affect people is enormously complicated.

As a side note and to highlight the complexity of communities, in London there are many Hindu gangs.

We should of course always be wary of those who try to divide people on grounds of race etc. i

The Indian community were mainly middle class and upper working class from East Africa. They became successful irrelevant of their religion (the Muslims from East Africa were as successful as the Hindus). The Pakistani mainly peasant heritage . Nothing is simple, how background and events affect people is enormously complicated.
As a side note and to highlight the complexity of communities, in London there are many Hindu gangs.
We should of course always be wary of those who try to divide people on grounds of race etc. igreenside

Aren't you going to tell us how you manage to vote for yourself so many times? Please.

Any sign of bcfc today?

Hi Ms Station.

As mentioned previously, all you need is about 100 of your supporters on here and they shouldn't have a problem in voting for you :)

BTW, what did you think of that link I gave earlier ?

I like the Ms. It takes years off me. Your writing looks pretty, although, knowing you it's probably something rude and bit racist.

Yes, thank you for the link. There are obviously poorly performing white kids too and the causes will be much the same, poor parental academic support. I made the point in my post this morning. If we're to fix the problems then City Hall needs to get to work on the parents.

The thread took the tone it did because the T&A decided to lead the charge and mention heritage Pakistanis.

My own view is that this is an issue to do with class. The African Asians that came over and prospered were all middle class with middle class expectations for their kids. Lumpen working class and peasants need to have their conciousness raised by becoming socially aware of the way the capitalist economy exploits them. Then they need to take back control of capital and the means of production. This sounds like an ideal project for Cllr. Green

[quote][p][bold]Robin of Loxley[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]FinlandStation[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Robin of Loxley[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]FinlandStation[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Robin of Loxley[/bold] wrote:
Vile Islamophobes out in full force I see...[/p][/quote]Hi Hoffster, nice to have you back.[/p][/quote]Thanks buddy.[/p][/quote]I'm a married lady.
Aren't you going to tell us how you manage to vote for yourself so many times? Please.
Any sign of bcfc today?[/p][/quote]Hi Ms Station.
As mentioned previously, all you need is about 100 of your supporters on here and they shouldn't have a problem in voting for you :)
BTW, what did you think of that link I gave earlier ?[/p][/quote]I like the Ms. It takes years off me. Your writing looks pretty, although, knowing you it's probably something rude and bit racist.
Yes, thank you for the link. There are obviously poorly performing white kids too and the causes will be much the same, poor parental academic support. I made the point in my post this morning. If we're to fix the problems then City Hall needs to get to work on the parents.
The thread took the tone it did because the T&A decided to lead the charge and mention heritage Pakistanis.
My own view is that this is an issue to do with class. The African Asians that came over and prospered were all middle class with middle class expectations for their kids. Lumpen working class and peasants need to have their conciousness raised by becoming socially aware of the way the capitalist economy exploits them. Then they need to take back control of capital and the means of production. This sounds like an ideal project for Cllr. GreenFinlandStation

izzystillbreathing wrote:
Poor education leads to high unemployment which leads to social unrest which when mixed with religious extremism results in riots. The Council can have no higher priority job than fixing their educational failures. They need to find the money from somewhere. It would have been better if the Lottery cash had gone into education rather than Trident’s pockets.

rubbish

[quote][p][bold]izzystillbreathing[/bold] wrote:
Poor education leads to high unemployment which leads to social unrest which when mixed with religious extremism results in riots. The Council can have no higher priority job than fixing their educational failures. They need to find the money from somewhere. It would have been better if the Lottery cash had gone into education rather than Trident’s pockets.[/p][/quote]rubbishalive and awake

pww of idle wrote:
I have just read a report that stated that both Indian &amp; Chinese pupils are doing very well in schools, but of course we don't have many of these children in Brat'fud schools do we ! Maybe if Brat'fud pupils were taught ENGLISH basics before entering places of education , standards might improve despite what our learned Councillors preach us &amp; continually CON into saying things are OK !

Until the Muslims have the same aspirations for their children as the Chinese and Indians Bradford will never improve. We are being dragged down by third world habits and village politics.

the muslims are performing unlike the natives

[quote][p][bold]baildongreen[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]pww of idle[/bold] wrote:
I have just read a report that stated that both Indian & Chinese pupils are doing very well in schools, but of course we don't have many of these children in Brat'fud schools do we ! Maybe if Brat'fud pupils were taught ENGLISH basics before entering places of education , standards might improve despite what our learned Councillors preach us & continually CON into saying things are OK ![/p][/quote]Until the Muslims have the same aspirations for their children as the Chinese and Indians Bradford will never improve. We are being dragged down by third world habits and village politics.[/p][/quote]the muslims are performing unlike the nativeslazybeat

lazybeat wrote:
look at the UK figures and not just sh&quot;itty. The lower class whites came out with the worst results

Fair enough, but with phrases like "with Pakistani heritage children performing below the Bradford average" in the report it further underlines the problems with Pakistani kids in Bradford.

What's wrong with these kids and what do we do to put it right? They should have a big part to play in Bradford's future but at this moment It looks like they will be a brake on economic growth.

[quote][p][bold]lazybeat[/bold] wrote:
look at the UK figures and not just sh"itty. The lower class whites came out with the worst results[/p][/quote]Fair enough, but with phrases like "with Pakistani heritage children performing below the Bradford average" in the report it further underlines the problems with Pakistani kids in Bradford.
What's wrong with these kids and what do we do to put it right? They should have a big part to play in Bradford's future but at this moment It looks like they will be a brake on economic growth.BD16

JAtkinson wrote:
Bradford's education system is again being bashed and, whilst their are plans in place to tackle this head on and no stone being left unturned etc, it's just words, words, words. It used to be that Bradford was in the bottom half and but not near the bottom. The reason: London's schools filled the bottom places. Tony Blair then said it was a national &quot;emergency" that London's schools were failing their students and poured resources, money and expertise, and now London's schools are amongst the best in how much value they add to their children's education and progress. Now, though, it's generally poor northern kids whose education is not as good as it could be. Where's our emergency? Where's our national focus? Where's our money and expertise and resources to help our kids? Nowhere. Instead, we have to try and do the same thing as London did with a big budget and the government behind it, with no extra money, no support and no real desire from the national government. Want to play the blame game? Blame the government for looking after kids on its doorstep but ignoring the problems of Bradford, Hull, North East, etc. not the kids who are being failed that government.

Correct, no amount of words will change the fact that my daughter when in the Bradford Primary School education system was often left being taught by dinner ladies and helpers when her teacher was off long term sick.
This is true, I dealt with the situation by moving out of Bradford and believe you me, the stats are correct, you really do suffer a second class education system in Inner City Bradford.
We're doing our best doesn't cut it, let's take some actions.
Until we bring standards up to the required national averages, no entry to mainstream schooling permitted for reception aged children who do not meet certain national standards in English communication and basic life skills.
Special centres could be established to bring these children up to national standards and sanctions taken against parents who are claiming child benefits but not maintaining their responsibilities towards their children.
No class sizes over 30 permitted.
Funding increased to prevent unqualified staff taking lessons in the absence of teaching staff.
These are concrete measures not just time buying rhetoric.
Your in this together in Bradford and you need to fight this apathy of the self serving politicians who should be taking in lead in doing the right thing to tackle this grave situation.

[quote][p][bold]JAtkinson[/bold] wrote:
Bradford's education system is again being bashed and, whilst their are plans in place to tackle this head on and no stone being left unturned etc, it's just words, words, words. It used to be that Bradford was in the bottom half and but not near the bottom. The reason: London's schools filled the bottom places. Tony Blair then said it was a national "emergency" that London's schools were failing their students and poured resources, money and expertise, and now London's schools are amongst the best in how much value they add to their children's education and progress. Now, though, it's generally poor northern kids whose education is not as good as it could be. Where's our emergency? Where's our national focus? Where's our money and expertise and resources to help our kids? Nowhere. Instead, we have to try and do the same thing as London did with a big budget and the government behind it, with no extra money, no support and no real desire from the national government. Want to play the blame game? Blame the government for looking after kids on its doorstep but ignoring the problems of Bradford, Hull, North East, etc. not the kids who are being failed that government.[/p][/quote]Correct, no amount of words will change the fact that my daughter when in the Bradford Primary School education system was often left being taught by dinner ladies and helpers when her teacher was off long term sick.
This is true, I dealt with the situation by moving out of Bradford and believe you me, the stats are correct, you really do suffer a second class education system in Inner City Bradford.
We're doing our best doesn't cut it, let's take some actions.
Until we bring standards up to the required national averages, no entry to mainstream schooling permitted for reception aged children who do not meet certain national standards in English communication and basic life skills.
Special centres could be established to bring these children up to national standards and sanctions taken against parents who are claiming child benefits but not maintaining their responsibilities towards their children.
No class sizes over 30 permitted.
Funding increased to prevent unqualified staff taking lessons in the absence of teaching staff.
These are concrete measures not just time buying rhetoric.
Your in this together in Bradford and you need to fight this apathy of the self serving politicians who should be taking in lead in doing the right thing to tackle this grave situation.Wanna Have

Yorkshire Lass wrote:
While Councillor Sykes states &quot;just because Bradford isn't performing well in all areas doesn't mean that the people are not trying their hardest" is to say the least, just an excuse. There has been more money given to some schools in Bradford than probably anywhere else in the country, which I do not think has made any difference over the years. I suggest that the people in charge now use some radical thinking to solve the problem. i.e. it would be good if the children started school speaking English, knowing how to eat properly and already toilet trained as to be honest this is the parents responsibility, not the teachers, then maybe the teachers can do what they are trained to do and spend more of their time teaching not "nurse maiding".

If this is correct and you are placed to say this without prejudice ie you work as a teacher, teaching assistant etc, it begs the question why do these politicians not ask you and take advice from people like you on the ground.
Rectifying what you alleged would go right to the heart of the matter.
It reminds me of the radiographers who carry out the pregnancy scans at the BRI and they have told for years of the serious problems caused by in breeding, but up until recently politicians were in political denial and they would prefer to spend millions in tax payer money funding the Born In Bradford campaign when they could just talk to experts on the ground.

[quote][p][bold]Yorkshire Lass[/bold] wrote:
While Councillor Sykes states "just because Bradford isn't performing well in all areas doesn't mean that the people are not trying their hardest" is to say the least, just an excuse. There has been more money given to some schools in Bradford than probably anywhere else in the country, which I do not think has made any difference over the years. I suggest that the people in charge now use some radical thinking to solve the problem. i.e. it would be good if the children started school speaking English, knowing how to eat properly and already toilet trained as to be honest this is the parents responsibility, not the teachers, then maybe the teachers can do what they are trained to do and spend more of their time teaching not "nurse maiding".[/p][/quote]If this is correct and you are placed to say this without prejudice ie you work as a teacher, teaching assistant etc, it begs the question why do these politicians not ask you and take advice from people like you on the ground.
Rectifying what you alleged would go right to the heart of the matter.
It reminds me of the radiographers who carry out the pregnancy scans at the BRI and they have told for years of the serious problems caused by in breeding, but up until recently politicians were in political denial and they would prefer to spend millions in tax payer money funding the Born In Bradford campaign when they could just talk to experts on the ground.Wanna Have

lazybeat wrote:
look at the UK figures and not just sh&quot;itty. The lower class whites came out with the worst results

Fair enough, but with phrases like "with Pakistani heritage children performing below the Bradford average" in the report it further underlines the problems with Pakistani kids in Bradford.

What's wrong with these kids and what do we do to put it right? They should have a big part to play in Bradford's future but at this moment It looks like they will be a brake on economic growth.

Same could be said for White kids under-performing.

Why are you concentrating on one and ignoring the other ?

[quote][p][bold]BD16[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]lazybeat[/bold] wrote:
look at the UK figures and not just sh"itty. The lower class whites came out with the worst results[/p][/quote]Fair enough, but with phrases like "with Pakistani heritage children performing below the Bradford average" in the report it further underlines the problems with Pakistani kids in Bradford.
What's wrong with these kids and what do we do to put it right? They should have a big part to play in Bradford's future but at this moment It looks like they will be a brake on economic growth.[/p][/quote]Same could be said for White kids under-performing.
Why are you concentrating on one and ignoring the other ?Robin of Loxley

lazybeat wrote:
look at the UK figures and not just sh&quot;itty. The lower class whites came out with the worst results

Fair enough, but with phrases like "with Pakistani heritage children performing below the Bradford average" in the report it further underlines the problems with Pakistani kids in Bradford.

What's wrong with these kids and what do we do to put it right? They should have a big part to play in Bradford's future but at this moment It looks like they will be a brake on economic growth.

Same could be said for White kids under-performing.

Why are you concentrating on one and ignoring the other ?

Maybe if the money thrown at some communities was also spent on poor white communities, things would improve (at least in the poor white areas).

[quote][p][bold]Robin of Loxley[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]BD16[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]lazybeat[/bold] wrote:
look at the UK figures and not just sh"itty. The lower class whites came out with the worst results[/p][/quote]Fair enough, but with phrases like "with Pakistani heritage children performing below the Bradford average" in the report it further underlines the problems with Pakistani kids in Bradford.
What's wrong with these kids and what do we do to put it right? They should have a big part to play in Bradford's future but at this moment It looks like they will be a brake on economic growth.[/p][/quote]Same could be said for White kids under-performing.
Why are you concentrating on one and ignoring the other ?[/p][/quote]Maybe if the money thrown at some communities was also spent on poor white communities, things would improve (at least in the poor white areas).Bone_idle18

lazybeat wrote:
look at the UK figures and not just sh&quot;itty. The lower class whites came out with the worst results

Fair enough, but with phrases like "with Pakistani heritage children performing below the Bradford average" in the report it further underlines the problems with Pakistani kids in Bradford.

What's wrong with these kids and what do we do to put it right? They should have a big part to play in Bradford's future but at this moment It looks like they will be a brake on economic growth.

Same could be said for White kids under-performing.

Why are you concentrating on one and ignoring the other ?

1) I was responding to an inaccurate comment made by another poster. The article clearly contradicts what he/she claimed.

2) Please take that chip off your shoulder and read my comment of 4:43pm yesterday afternoon.

[quote][p][bold]Robin of Loxley[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]BD16[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]lazybeat[/bold] wrote:
look at the UK figures and not just sh"itty. The lower class whites came out with the worst results[/p][/quote]Fair enough, but with phrases like "with Pakistani heritage children performing below the Bradford average" in the report it further underlines the problems with Pakistani kids in Bradford.
What's wrong with these kids and what do we do to put it right? They should have a big part to play in Bradford's future but at this moment It looks like they will be a brake on economic growth.[/p][/quote]Same could be said for White kids under-performing.
Why are you concentrating on one and ignoring the other ?[/p][/quote]1) I was responding to an inaccurate comment made by another poster. The article clearly contradicts what he/she claimed.
2) Please take that chip off your shoulder and read my comment of 4:43pm yesterday afternoon.BD16

Kids and speaking English isnt just a Bradford problem.
I was served in a corner shop in Grantham last week (obviously it was Asian-owned, as per the law), the woman, in her late 20's spoke English as well as myself, and patently born here. She had two toddlers by her side, again id say born here. But, she addressed them in their ethnic tongue. Those kids are part of Granthams future problems.

Kids and speaking English isnt just a Bradford problem.
I was served in a corner shop in Grantham last week (obviously it was Asian-owned, as per the law), the woman, in her late 20's spoke English as well as myself, and patently born here. She had two toddlers by her side, again id say born here. But, she addressed them in their ethnic tongue. Those kids are part of Granthams future problems.Mixter

Grumpygirl wrote:
City Hall has allowed Bradford's schools to get into such a mess that only allocating massive resources is gong to help. The Council hasn't got that kind of money and the Tories certainly won't give it to them because they only want to help rich people. Our only hope is a Labour Government.

If our only hope for anything is a Labour Government. We are truly finished.

[quote][p][bold]Grumpygirl[/bold] wrote:
City Hall has allowed Bradford's schools to get into such a mess that only allocating massive resources is gong to help. The Council hasn't got that kind of money and the Tories certainly won't give it to them because they only want to help rich people. Our only hope is a Labour Government.[/p][/quote]If our only hope for anything is a Labour Government. We are truly finished.sinking fast

khalidmalikbadass wrote:
But the schools not catering properly for muslim so what they expecting they are not see the bigger picture here

Schools do not cater for religions, they cater for education and it is that mentality that is holding Pakistani heritage children back. This country and the schools do everything for you. they give you a first class education, first class healthcare and first class welfare. The only small contribution you are asked to make is to make sure your children commit to their studies and are well mannered. Not only will this improve society but it will also improve the quality of your children's lives and ultimately improve the quality of YOUR life. For some bizarre reason, this is too much to ask of most Pakistani parents.

For those that think that speaking English is a problem, I would argue that it is not. Most Pakistani parents that I know, including those born in Pakistan, actually speak to their children in English. There is also free nursery education for 3 year olds, so by school age most children will be speaking English. the problem is that most Pakistani parents will are too busy playing family politics or worried about fashion, gossip etc and pay not attention to their children. They will dress them half decently and leave the rest to nature. These children run feral in the streets and alleyways until all times of the day and night and when the children misbehave they will refuse to chastise them. If these parents should be offered parenting classes and if they still cannot control their children then they should be forced to accompany them to school and sit next to them for the entire school day to ensure that they behave and participate in classes. If the children still fail in class then at least the parent might gain some passing knowledge! Although I think you would soon find a marked improvement in behaviour.

[quote][p][bold]khalidmalikbadass[/bold] wrote:
But the schools not catering properly for muslim so what they expecting they are not see the bigger picture here[/p][/quote]Schools do not cater for religions, they cater for education and it is that mentality that is holding Pakistani heritage children back. This country and the schools do everything for you. they give you a first class education, first class healthcare and first class welfare. The only small contribution you are asked to make is to make sure your children commit to their studies and are well mannered. Not only will this improve society but it will also improve the quality of your children's lives and ultimately improve the quality of YOUR life. For some bizarre reason, this is too much to ask of most Pakistani parents.
For those that think that speaking English is a problem, I would argue that it is not. Most Pakistani parents that I know, including those born in Pakistan, actually speak to their children in English. There is also free nursery education for 3 year olds, so by school age most children will be speaking English. the problem is that most Pakistani parents will are too busy playing family politics or worried about fashion, gossip etc and pay not attention to their children. They will dress them half decently and leave the rest to nature. These children run feral in the streets and alleyways until all times of the day and night and when the children misbehave they will refuse to chastise them. If these parents should be offered parenting classes and if they still cannot control their children then they should be forced to accompany them to school and sit next to them for the entire school day to ensure that they behave and participate in classes. If the children still fail in class then at least the parent might gain some passing knowledge! Although I think you would soon find a marked improvement in behaviour.notfromBradford

khalidmalikbadass wrote:
But the schools not catering properly for muslim so what they expecting they are not see the bigger picture here

Schools do not cater for religions, they cater for education and it is that mentality that is holding Pakistani heritage children back. This country and the schools do everything for you. they give you a first class education, first class healthcare and first class welfare. The only small contribution you are asked to make is to make sure your children commit to their studies and are well mannered. Not only will this improve society but it will also improve the quality of your children's lives and ultimately improve the quality of YOUR life. For some bizarre reason, this is too much to ask of most Pakistani parents.

For those that think that speaking English is a problem, I would argue that it is not. Most Pakistani parents that I know, including those born in Pakistan, actually speak to their children in English. There is also free nursery education for 3 year olds, so by school age most children will be speaking English. the problem is that most Pakistani parents will are too busy playing family politics or worried about fashion, gossip etc and pay not attention to their children. They will dress them half decently and leave the rest to nature. These children run feral in the streets and alleyways until all times of the day and night and when the children misbehave they will refuse to chastise them. If these parents should be offered parenting classes and if they still cannot control their children then they should be forced to accompany them to school and sit next to them for the entire school day to ensure that they behave and participate in classes. If the children still fail in class then at least the parent might gain some passing knowledge! Although I think you would soon find a marked improvement in behaviour.

Apologies for the very bad typos. Inexcusable, I know. Should have checked my comments before posting!

[quote][p][bold]notfromBradford[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]khalidmalikbadass[/bold] wrote:
But the schools not catering properly for muslim so what they expecting they are not see the bigger picture here[/p][/quote]Schools do not cater for religions, they cater for education and it is that mentality that is holding Pakistani heritage children back. This country and the schools do everything for you. they give you a first class education, first class healthcare and first class welfare. The only small contribution you are asked to make is to make sure your children commit to their studies and are well mannered. Not only will this improve society but it will also improve the quality of your children's lives and ultimately improve the quality of YOUR life. For some bizarre reason, this is too much to ask of most Pakistani parents.
For those that think that speaking English is a problem, I would argue that it is not. Most Pakistani parents that I know, including those born in Pakistan, actually speak to their children in English. There is also free nursery education for 3 year olds, so by school age most children will be speaking English. the problem is that most Pakistani parents will are too busy playing family politics or worried about fashion, gossip etc and pay not attention to their children. They will dress them half decently and leave the rest to nature. These children run feral in the streets and alleyways until all times of the day and night and when the children misbehave they will refuse to chastise them. If these parents should be offered parenting classes and if they still cannot control their children then they should be forced to accompany them to school and sit next to them for the entire school day to ensure that they behave and participate in classes. If the children still fail in class then at least the parent might gain some passing knowledge! Although I think you would soon find a marked improvement in behaviour.[/p][/quote]Apologies for the very bad typos. Inexcusable, I know. Should have checked my comments before posting!notfromBradford