The pandas aren't as bad or intrusive as I thought they would be, not by a long margin. The whole thing just had a real 'souless sellout, jump the shark' vibe to it. And how the fuck can you hate on Tauren? They rock.

A poster signed by Richard Garriot, Brad McQuaid, Marc Jacobs and SmerricK Dart. Of course it would arrive a couple years late, missing letters and a picture but it would be epic none the less. -Tmon

I'm to the point where I log in and play for 15-20 minutes and then get bored and quit. Mostly because doing alts... well I've done the content SO MANY times I just flat out don't have any interest in doing it again. And the MoP stuff was neat the first time, all right the second, and now I'm tired of it on the 3rd run through. I slogged through the Cata content like 5-6 times before bailing on it. Now I think I might just quit for good... I don't really get anything out of the game anymore. No rage or anger, no "Blizzard sucks" posts, just... fade away and sputter out with a whimper. Which is a shame since I've been playing since 2004.

Not to mention in my advancing age I just can't sit at a computer and play for hours on end anymore, my joints hurt all over if I do that without getting up. I'm too old?

I'm to the point where I log in and play for 15-20 minutes and then get bored and quit. Mostly because doing alts... well I've done the content SO MANY times I just flat out don't have any interest in doing it again. And the MoP stuff was neat the first time, all right the second, and now I'm tired of it on the 3rd run through. I slogged through the Cata content like 5-6 times before bailing on it. Now I think I might just quit for good... I don't really get anything out of the game anymore. No rage or anger, no "Blizzard sucks" posts, just... fade away and sputter out with a whimper. Which is a shame since I've been playing since 2004.

Not to mention in my advancing age I just can't sit at a computer and play for hours on end anymore, my joints hurt all over if I do that without getting up. I'm too old?

This is pretty much me too. I've been playing since launch but I can't bring myself to log in. I really enjoyed the MoP content the first time through. Started gearing up, but after a while I thought to myself, why am I doing this? I'm never going to be a hardcore raider so no need to gear up. My character basically stops at 90 because there is no point to gear progression. The leveling is so slow now that 85-90 is really tough. After going through the content the first time I'd rather just level through dungeons. Can't do that as DPS since queues are 20+ minutes. Scenarios would be cool but can't do that until 90.

Ultimately I think the problem is that I just can't sit down and play all weekend long like I used to since having a kid. Is it possible that WoW isn't casual enough for me?

I know. It is literally amazing how many people freak out about Pandas when Taruen have been around since day one, and while Playable Worgen are relatively new, the creature has been around since day one as well.

Especially given that wolf-furries have been around for a couple of years - not to mention the cow people.

Worgen are werewolves and Tauren are minotaur, both are awesome, pre-existing anthropomorphic legends. Pandas are just cute and silly animals. One of these three is not like the others.

That said I don't really care anymore. At least their models aren't as ugly as male Draenei. If I could get rid of any playable race it would be male Draenei, even before male blood elf.

Anyways, on the WoW complaints. I'm still playing, it remains the only non-shit mmo out there. I think most people just have WoW fatigue which is perfectly understandable but completely impossible for the devs to overcome. In all honesty the dungeons, scenarious and raids are better and more accesilbe than ever before. There are a ton of dailies if you just like questing. Even though no one is going to like every decision the dev team makes they certainly notice when things go wrong and at least try to fix them but more importantly they do things better next time.

In all honesty the dungeons, scenarious and raids are better and more accesilbe than ever before. There are a ton of dailies if you just like questing.

I agree the dungeons, scenarios, and raids are very good. My problem is the slog to get there. Starting a character over at level 1? That does not sound like fun to me. I just really wish I could do scenarios or dungeon queues from 85-90 were shorter.

They are cutting the amount of xp needed to get from 85-90 by one third in the next patch. There are also special npc vendors at 85 where you can buy a complete set of level appropriate gear. So if you're 85 and coming into the expansion the first thing you do is go to this guy (alliance) or (horde) for great, cheap 372 gear. They even have another npc at 88 where you can buy 408 gear if you haven't found enough by then. By complete set I mean every single slot of armor, weapon and trinkets.

Once at 90 you have an overwhelming amount of stuff you can do and if you try to do it all you will probably burn out and quit so just pick a few things you enjoy and do those. The farm stuff is nice, anglers quests are easy, shieldwall is enjoyable, the current quest hub isle of thunder is good but might be a touch difficult at low gear levels. I did not like the shadopan and august celestial stuff, also found golden lotus too long and crowded. Gear wise you would start running dungeons and scenarios. They haven't, and aren't, adding any new five man dungeons so most people are overpowered and just annihilate them. Honor gear is very cheap, they still have last tier's valor gear available to buy but at half the cost which can help get your ilvl up fast. There is also a lot on the AH now. PvP gear is perfectly viable for PvE this expansion because you don't have resilience wasting a stat slot so if you know (or are) a crafter you can make yourself a nice set of starter gear.

Once you can get into lfr raids you just run them until you're all set, they upped the drop rates on t14 bosses so it shouldn't be too much longer before you're up to speed running the latest raid. Then you can complain about how there's nothing to do and get very angry about the tiniest little details until you rage quit like the rest of us. I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY HAVEN'T RELEASED MY NEW ENGINEERING MOUNT AND PETS YET rawrwrwwwrrrrrr!

I remember when they said the pandaria storyline was done with the retail purchase and every patch would be about horde/alliance.

In seriousness though I think it would have helped if they had gone a different direction like the one above but they didn't. Even this months/year later stuff like reducing rep requirements and exp etc etc, it's all "standard wow procedure" when they really should have tried new stuff.

Ultimately I think the problem is that I just can't sit down and play all weekend long like I used to since having a kid. Is it possible that WoW isn't casual enough for me?

This version of WoW hasn't been casual friendly at all in my opinion, compared to Wrath or the back end of Cata.

"But.. but.. but.. look at all the casual stuff we've added! You can farm and run pointless scenarios and it's so easy to get in to raids as long as you do them in our mandatory order! Never mind that the gear grind is brutal, you shouldn't care about gear in our gear-grind game! Hardcores need grind or they'll leave us for something else. They said so!"

I can't get past the panties - AlluvianI really like the cocks. - LantyssaPeople rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - LantyssaI love the swinging dongs - Signe

The thing that would revitalize this game for me, and keep me subbed for the next couple of years is simple. Sliding scale content.

No more 3 mans, 5 mans, or 10/25 mans. Just implement a slider and percentages/amount variables for drops. Release dungeons that have all those capabilities from 3-25 people, and you set how many people are in the run based on what you have. At certain thresholds the bosses get more abilities, and the drop percentages go up. No more waiting if you have 4 players and need one more, or if you have 7 guys and need 3 more. No more fixed numbers. The dungeons simply adjust to your number.

Also, I'd remove LFR in favor of this system, and go back to a matching system like dungeon finder. Looking for 2 more? Put out that in the finder.

Ultimately I think the problem is that I just can't sit down and play all weekend long like I used to since having a kid. Is it possible that WoW isn't casual enough for me?

This version of WoW hasn't been casual friendly at all in my opinion, compared to Wrath or the back end of Cata.

"But.. but.. but.. look at all the casual stuff we've added! You can farm and run pointless scenarios and it's so easy to get in to raids as long as you do them in our mandatory order! Never mind that the gear grind is brutal, you shouldn't care about gear in our gear-grind game! Hardcores need grind or they'll leave us for something else. They said so!"

"gear grind is brutal"

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."

I ran moshugun a dozen plus times for my hunter. If I decide I want to switch over to the rogue my options are.. run moshugun vaults a dozen plus times to see new content.

If I decide it'd be cool to have an epic weapon on another character.. it's another lame ass grind fest.

Everything in the game is designed around the obsessive one-character player with more time than sense or responsibility. Fuck that I'm done with that entire paradigm. There is no sensible reason to force players who want to play more than one character in to a weeks-long grind to try new content on that character.

I can't get past the panties - AlluvianI really like the cocks. - LantyssaPeople rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - LantyssaI love the swinging dongs - Signe

"Gear needed to start LFR" is a funny way of saying "Here's what you need to start the content that you will repeat ad naseum"

Getting into the bottom of any ladder in wow has never been the issue, it's the climb which has become increasingly dull and pointless.

"I don't like having to raid for gear so I can raid for gear". So...don't raid, then? Like I said, the crafted PvP gear is perfectly fine for everything else in the entire expansion - heroics, battlegrounds, scenarios, the various daily hubs, rare-hunting...even the world raid bosses.

I ran moshugun a dozen plus times for my hunter. If I decide I want to switch over to the rogue my options are.. run moshugun vaults a dozen plus times to see new content.

If I decide it'd be cool to have an epic weapon on another character.. it's another lame ass grind fest.

Everything in the game is designed around the obsessive one-character player with more time than sense or responsibility. Fuck that I'm done with that entire paradigm. There is no sensible reason to force players who want to play more than one character in to a weeks-long grind to try new content on that character.

See, now this is a much more valid complaint. MoP has fucked over alts pretty badly and knowing Blizzard the fix won't roll in until the next expansion (I'm guessing: account-wide rep at the very least, possibly account-pooled currency (including the various types of points) and so on). But on the other hand, good luck finding an MMO that doesn't do this.

« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 06:04:17 PM by Simond »

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."

1) There's a reason I didn't play other MMOs for 7 years. 2) They HAD a workable solution but got all offended people would only run the latest 5-mans on old characters, so they took that out. 3) They also had a much more reasonable point/ token progression in prior expansions and fucked that all to hell in MoP.4) They didn't attach ALL prior endgame tasks to a pointless rep grind in older expansions.

To expand on #4 Every new patch has introduced a new rep in MoP. Fuck. That. Noise. It was shitty enough when BC and WOTLK did it with the Isle and Tourney but at least there was a grind-this-the-fuck-out option in raids and 5-mans. (And Cata tabards) Removing it and forcing it to be dailies in MoP made a nuisance mechanic that you could bust out in a week into a dire one dragged out for months if you play more than one toon. .

And good fucking luck if you come-back a year from now and want a goofy-ass Shadow Pan hat or want to work on achievements. Your option is: grind relevant dailies or grind Shadow Pan dailies because time is a commodity, too.

So not only is the system hostile to current players with more than one toon, it's hostile to the notion of a returning player. A failure all around! But don't correct it because that would mean saying, "Oh, we fucked up!"

I can't get past the panties - AlluvianI really like the cocks. - LantyssaPeople rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - LantyssaI love the swinging dongs - Signe

I'll fully admit I'll play again if they returned to the Wrath philosophy and dumped LFR. I think LFR was a good idea on paper, but it's unintended consequences and gating have completely turned the endgame into faceless morons failing encounters in a mass setting. That's the new baseline instead of 5 mans.

I actually like LFR. After Everquest's experience of being in raid guilds, with a committment to be on at X time on Y nights for Z hours, it's not something I want to return to or do again. I also hate the PUG raid scene with a passion, so pressing a button and getting into an EZmode version that I can check out for lesser rewards with less stress works fine for me. The problem is that the largely-mandatory (if you want to upgrade) Valor grind is utterly boring and tedious, and an absolute killer for alts. The massive endless stream of daily rep grinds is a killer as well. I have 0/4 level 90s who have actually capped the various factions. 3/4 have done tillers, 4/4 have done the clod serpent guys, 3/4 have just finished the Kirin Tor, and 1 just finished the.. Golden Lotus? The guys who live in the Vale, whichever ones they are. And that was only because I had them chosen for the farming orders and daily heroics (and it still took forever).

I've been capping my valor for the last 4? 5? 6? weeks (on 4 characters), but now.. I'm just over it. I can't be bothered. It literally takes several days of nothing but shitty grinding to do, and it leaves me with no time of my own. Yeah, my own stupidity, but maybe I just needed to grind the catassing out of my system to burn out for a break again.

The raids give a shitty amount of Valor for the time and effort required, and are as tedious as all fuck. 10-minute boss fights are just boring.

I don't like LFR because it has become a baseline, and it's not really that fun to me, nor does it encourage retention the way they want. Groups of friends keep you subbed, and forming small groups of 10 or less can keep people involved on a weekly basis rather than just jumping into faceless groups. I also liked that you could do 10 or 25 mans in Wrath and not just have to choose one or the other. I liked that heroics were fun and easy without having a ton of pugs unless you wanted them. I liked that you had 25 dailies if you wanted them, and the game wasn't designed entirely around reputation as advancement.

I don't like LFR because it has become a baseline, and it's not really that fun to me, nor does it encourage retention the way they want. Groups of friends keep you subbed, and forming small groups of 10 or less can keep people involved on a weekly basis rather than just jumping into faceless groups. I also liked that you could do 10 or 25 mans in Wrath and not just have to choose one or the other. I liked that heroics were fun and easy without having a ton of pugs unless you wanted them. I liked that you had 25 dailies if you wanted them, and the game wasn't designed entirely around reputation as advancement.

This is exactly it, LFR has become what heroics were in wrath. It's even worse if you're in a progression guild because you still need to do LFR before the actual raid so you get burned out on the content twice as fast or worse, you get used to doing the fights the easy way.

If by progression guild you mean people able to clear normals and then work on heroics they don't need to run lfr at all. The heroic gear they are wearing from last tier is still much better ilvl than what lfr drops.

I don't like LFR because it has become a baseline, and it's not really that fun to me, nor does it encourage retention the way they want. Groups of friends keep you subbed, and forming small groups of 10 or less can keep people involved on a weekly basis rather than just jumping into faceless groups. I also liked that you could do 10 or 25 mans in Wrath and not just have to choose one or the other. I liked that heroics were fun and easy without having a ton of pugs unless you wanted them. I liked that you had 25 dailies if you wanted them, and the game wasn't designed entirely around reputation as advancement.

I'm not sure what you mean by baseline. As for retention only blizzard really knows what lfr's effect has been. People who were never able to raid before lfr might stick around longer now that they have this new source of content. Are there fewer ten man raid groups now because of lfr or did exposing all these other people to raiding actually make more people interested in it? We don't know.

Heroics have been fun and easy ever since mid cata when they realized people despised the new harder dungeons. The difference between those fucking troll dungeons and the final set were night and day, they did a complete 180.

Are there fewer ten man raid groups now because of lfr or did exposing all these other people to raiding actually make more people interested in it? We don't know.

We can estimate that a bit through wowprogression. In Tier 14, over 44,800 groups have cleared at least one boss in 10 man content. In Tier 11, the first tier of Cata, we had 74,000 groups of 10 mans doing content. In Wrath we had 85,000 groups of 10 doing the Icecrown raid.

I guess, although the tier 10 and 11 numbers each have a year of data whereas t14 has eight months. Extrapolating would still be a decline though. It also goes by entire guild instead of groups so there would be knock on effects from the guild perk system cata brought in. I imagine there were just more guilds in wrath because there was no consequence to leaving your current one and forming another. Nowadays people think twice before losing all those helpful perks like +gold, +rep, +xp, mass rezz and so on. Perk system also favours larger guilds that have multiple raid groups running which wowprogress would only count once. In wrath you could do both 25 and 10 so most of the 25 man raids would probably have run and been counted in the 10 stats, which wouldn't be the case come cata.

Oh and going back to a previous post that mentioned having to do 1-90 - if you already had a wow account you could get a scroll of resurrection which instantly boosts a character to level 80. At least I think that scroll is still available, you should check if you're eligible first. I don't think you can boost monks but they get some sort of huge xp buff via a daily iirc anyways.