The War on Traditional Values

TheChampion

TheChampion

Total Posts: 3036

Joined 25-04-2005

Sr. Member

Total Posts: 3036

Joined 25-04-2005

Posted: 26 May 2008 08:47

There is a war on traditional values. For example, take the Hollywood crowd. No crowd has influenced American culture more than the Hollywood crowd, nobody. They influence everything from how politics is played to how families work. Nobody in Hollywood can be successful making traditional moral judgements. They get offended at traditional values. Now, the entire industry is a cesspool of sexual filth, preaching a theology of hedonism in almost every program, I mean almost every single tv show, every single movie, has a non-biblical worldview. Ever watch the Bravo Channel, HBO, and so forth. Outlets such as these are at war with traditional values.

Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Matt 11:28-29

“Traditional values” - I know what you mean by that (1940’s-50’s, or some similar period), but let’s get really traditional here. Going back to the beginning of our American culture/nation, you would have 1) enslavement of blacks; 2) Thomas Jefferson & others having children by slave women; 3) prosecution of people falsely accused of being witches; 4) women not voting; 5) native Americans being dispossessed of their ancestral homeland; 6) people in certain areas being forced to adopt a particular religion; 7) dress codes that even make the polygamists in Eldorado, TX look progressive; and other similar “values.” I believe in Jesus just like you do, Champ, but I don’t want to go back to that. “Traditional values” is just a phrase that people use to say “I don’t like what’s going on.”

The legitimate purpose of tradition is to keep us tied to our past sufficiently to prevent tumultuous change. I think of it as a balloon tied to a weight heavy enough to keep the balloon from going too high, but light enough to allow the balloon (driven by the winds of change) to drag it along. We keep anchored to our past, but not to the too-distant past. So, in this analogy, the earth would be a timeless truth, the weight would be the tradition that keeps the balloon from escaping the timeless truth, the balloon would be culture, and the wind would be change. If we did not allow the balloon to skirt the face of the earth and change “traditional values,” we would still be cracking the whip against the backs of our African-American brothers.

Well, Champ’s right about Hollywood destroying traditional values. When I was a kid, I could go to a Saturday matinee for fifty cents, AND watch the same movie over and over. They were good movies, too.

Well, Champ’s right about Hollywood destroying traditional values. When I was a kid, I could go to a Saturday matinee for fifty cents, AND watch the same movie over and over. They were good movies, too.

Thank you Mclapine for your support on this topic. Bruce, ugh, ok, so America is the bad guy again? You know, I get so tired of Americans who reap the benefits of being an American while trashing American for sins. So much heavy handed concentration on the bad things which are supremely outweighed by the many good and wonderful things America has brought human civilization.

Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Matt 11:28-29

Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Matt 11:28-29

Champion deserves a little credit for not using anti-Semitic dog whistles to bash Hollywood, like Laura Ingraham’s “anti-Christian entertainment elite.”

But the use of the phrase “traditional values” is questionable at best. It has its own dog-whistle history, as code for husbands being in charge of marriage and gays being in the closet. And I suspect that in past decades, it also stood for certain racist myths, similar to “decent, hard-working, law-abiding.” Champion’s meaning may be more benign, but the phrase is simply too vague to have any credibility.

[quote author=“TheChampion”] Bruce, ugh, ok, so America is the bad guy again? You know, I get so tired of Americans who reap the benefits of being an American while trashing American for sins. So much heavy handed concentration on the bad things which are supremely outweighed by the many good and wonderful things America has brought human civilization.

Champ, I fully agree that America is great, and I love my country with all my heart. But you need to define “traditional values” if you are going to argue that we should return to them. What are those values?

Funny, growing up in the Eastern Bloc meant for me to think that the “American Values” are represented by rock&roll;and the Simpsons.
I still think there is something to that belief: Human Freedom and “pursuit of happiness” includes the right to enjoy ones life, to sing and dance for example. “Hedonism” is not immoral if it does not happen on the cost of others and done moderatly (vgl. Epicurus). Of course in it’s extreme form like drug abuse, it is rather distasteful, but nobody tells you that you are supposed to emulate that (subconcious messages? moron).

Further: smarter Hollywood series like the Simpsons often reflect serious dilemmata of (modern) human life and usually answer those in a very moral way, often ironic, hinting humanism.
Most disgusting and immoral are rather those products of Hollywood that try the most to appeal to a “traditional” audience: Mel Gibsons idiotic, brutal and bellicose movies are one example.

Somebody once told me: “television makes dumb people dumber and smart people smarter” (because the smart person choses intelligent programmes and knows when to stop). I think that is true for “Hollywood” entertainment industry as such and could be also rendered “moral people not less moral”. “The champion” seems to think that the citizens of the US are like stupid children not mature enough to make their own decisions and thus easily debauched by some moving pictures.

“We may be confused about the distinction between tolerance and the refusal of evaluation, thinking that tolerance of others requires us not to evaluate what they do.”
Martha Nussbaum
—Cultivating Humanity

Do you agree that, if Christians are the salt of the earth and the light of the world, then their actions have more effect on values than Hollywood or Washington, D.C.?

Do you agree that it is unreasonable to expect non-Christians to act in the same way Christians are supposed to act?

Do you agree that judgment begins at the house of God?

Again, what “traditional values” are you claiming are being destroyed or undermined by Hollywood or modern culture? Whatever values you cite, I can guarantee you that Christians have done more damage to them than “the world.” This is not a “blame America” argument. It’s a “blame the church” argument. If the meat is rotting, the salt hasn’t done its job.

The champ says: Now, the entire industry is a cesspool of sexual filth, preaching a theology of hedonism in almost every program, I mean almost every single tv show, every single movie, has a non-biblical worldview. Ever watch the Bravo Channel, HBO, and so forth. Outlets such as these are at war with traditional values.

Turn it off, stop watching it, don’t buy into these “world views.”

The problem with poor quality tv is not “hedonism” and “non-biblical worldviews” but the dumbing down and anti-intellectual attitudes and mindsets of those producing, watching and sponsoring the programs.

Do you agree that, if Christians are the salt of the earth and the light of the world, then their actions have more effect on values than Hollywood or Washington, D.C.?

Do you agree that it is unreasonable to expect non-Christians to act in the same way Christians are supposed to act?

Do you agree that judgment begins at the house of God?

Again, what “traditional values” are you claiming are being destroyed or undermined by Hollywood or modern culture? Whatever values you cite, I can guarantee you that Christians have done more damage to them than “the world.” This is not a “blame America” argument. It’s a “blame the church” argument. If the meat is rotting, the salt hasn’t done its job.

Sigh......ugh…..buoy…...oh buoy…. Bruce, your logic incites pity from those Christians who have heard this faulty logic being spread around before. If I got an army and one of those soldiers does something wrong, do I negate the results of the entire army? For example, in San Diego last week there was a murdered soldier found in San Clemente and the culprit turned out to be another soldier from Camp Penelton near San Diego. Using your logic, people would be criticizing the army. But sound reasoning and critical thinking skills were applied by the media and others and the soldier in question was demonized while the armies reputation remained intact.

Conversly speaking, here you go on spouting off (and you are a believer??? I might need to recaculate my thoughts on you) about a 1 percent issue in the church at large. For every one pastor who scandalously brings reproach on the church, there are 1200 pastors out there preaching the gospel, praying for the sick, overseeing proverty outreaches and so on and so on. Bruce, you ought to be ashamed of yourself using fautly numeric logic to advance a useless point regarding the church. Judgement does begin at the house of God and it probably begins with he who raises his hand against God’s annointed. I would be praying for forgiveness if I were you, my friend,

But to expound further, and hitting the core issue from your message, you want me to describe the “traditional values.” Folks, ladies and germs, err, gentlemen, it is a sad day in American when one has to describe those universal values which has served this country so well for so long. It makes one apprehensive for the future, knowing that traditional values are based on the 10 commandments and people who do not follow the 10 commandments will find themselves on the wrong side of the ball when it comes to the Lord.

If I have to spell out traditional values to Americans, then I might as well pack it up, buy a cabin out in Montana somewhere, and wait for the apocalypse. Shame on you all for being ignorant on subjects you should have been instructed on from the beginning. It is shame on you, or shame on your parents for not teaching you. Shame on your grade schools for not teaching you. Shame on your high schools for being complicit in generating alternative values in young people. Shame on our colleges for cementing the vast moral wasteland that is within our young people today. Harvard and Yale began as proud institutions that instructed young people in the ways of the Lord. Now they are factories that manufacture children who believe THEY are God and can achieve aims on their own, they are the God of their own life.

Humble thyselves before the Lord and seek his face before the day of the Lord arrives, that terrible day when God’s wrath will be revealed. It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Seek forgiveness while you are able. Do not allow yourself to have that moment that some will have today, that moment where life passes from their physical body and they suddenly discover the truths they had rejected their whole lifetimes, and the regret is great and the sorrow is of a significance that cannot be described, as they begin to digest that eternity has been decided for them, by themselves, and it ain’t pretty.

On the other hand, some will pass their last breath today with a hope and a peace that passes all understanding, knowing that ‘apart from the body, present with the Lord’ is the promise they have been banking on all their lives. And God knows how to deliever on a promise.

The ultimate question, which one of the above will be you?

Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Matt 11:28-29