Sadly there is trouble with Dell hardware/software even in their 'big business' server sales. We recently bought $60,000 worth of hardware from them - first time our group
bought from Dell, and got machines with closed source, YOU CAN'T RELOAD THE OS WITHOUT
OUR PROPRIETARY BINARIES software. After talking to some very responsive people in
tech support (and politely explaining that we wouldn't buy Dells again without a test
machine) they told us that the problem was the LSI SCSI controller software. Different
customer service people (all of whom were polite and seemed to listen) kept asking us
about the customer satisfaction rating we gave (2 out of 10), but were unable to
dig up a 32-bit version of the OS we wanted to run on our Xeon 1950's. Hadn't been
certified. They don't quite get it.

Sadly there is trouble with Dell hardware/software even in their 'big business' server sales.... our group bought from Dell, and got machines with closed source, YOU CAN'T RELOAD THE OS WITHOUT OUR PROPRIETARY BINARIES software.

Ugh, $60,000 worth of disposable equipment.

Wouldn't it be nice if they had just picked some scsi cards that have free software drivers? How nice it would be if Dell used it's market might to ask for specifications or free drivers instead of how non free companies usually do it - asking the maker to keep things secret.

Not to sound like a broken record around here, but why would Dell go out of their way to find components that work on an OS that is in direct competition with the one that ships with (currently) 100% of their hardware?

Not to sound like a broken record around here, but why would Dell go out of their way to find components that work on an OS that is in direct competition with the one that ships with (currently) 100% of their hardware?

For three simple reasons:

Their users want it.

Their users want it.

Their users want it.

You sell what your users want or you go out of business. What they sell now, contrary to their claim, does not really work with any of their hardware. Indeed, M$ is the source of all bogus compatibility problems, the people who gave you Winmodems and destroyed Alpha (remember 64 bit computing ten years ago?), who trashed Netscape and gave you rampant botnets, who crapped out OpenGL and gave you DirectX version 1 through 10 in far fewer years. I could go on and on, but you get the point. Hardware and software makers like simple and stable interfaces, M$ has done everything in their power to thwart real standardization. Their users know this and want something else.

Something about not biting hands that feed you?

Yes, it's strange but it's really customers that feed Dell, not M$. The only reason Dell does not give their customers what they want is because they are afraid of M$ biting them in the ass, which is already sore from their mistaken loyalty to Intel. As Vista tanks and other vendors start doing well, you will see how backward your thinking was. The fact they are even mentioning gnu/linux means Dell knows where their friends really are.

That IS why HP did better than Dell with AMD and Linux. The number of incompetent "I just have an IT degree" admins are starting to decline. So are Dell's sales. Coincidence?Any IT Dept. with a brain steers clear of Dell. That's why I said "Dell is selling what THEIR users want." HP's customer base is wholly different than Dell's! Why are you arguing with me when we are saying the exact same thing?!?!??

Dell isn't dumb, but their customers are those who (at the moment) want Intel, Server 2003, and a su

Of course it deserves to tank, but we'll have to see how it shakes out. I've been wondering if there isn't an effort going on at Microsoft to rewrite the OS without the (intentional) problems. It couldn't be done as a Service Pack, because it would mean they'd have to admit failure. I'm guessing a completely different nameplate.

Hey, the guy said he bought it with closed source, or did they buy them initially with windows? If they did with windows and decided to switch Os's mid stream. Is its fault.1. IT guy could have asked dell before hand. Could have researched on the web. Found out which companies had support if not open source drivers for the dell.

Dell is also notorious for tweaking hardware or just plain having inconsistent builds. They're like a network company that likes to switch out wifi and wired nic chipsets on you while not bothering to change the model name on the box.

No... this time the 'Bald Avenger®' used a hand made Italian throwing chair (an excellent chocie) designed to fracture but not fatally shatter the skull of the target (aka. Mr. Dell) thus teaching him a lesson without causing permanent injury. Next time of course the gloves will come off... the Bald Avenger will hit Mr. Dell with the 'smirk of repentance' which will burn his soul out and send it to the deepest pit of Recycle-Bin-Hell where Clippy, the angel of darkness, will punish Mr. Dell for his disloyalty by driving him insane with a never ending flood of useless suggestions...

Disclaimer: The above message is intended to make absolutely no sense at all, if it failed in this the author would like to apologize in advance.

Michael Dell announced a low-key program to certify Linux distributions for corporate clients who wanted a custom factory install. It's only the Geek off on his own power trip who could spin this into a victory for OEM Linux in the consumer market.

Dell is continuing to talk with the makers of other Linux distributions about certifying the hardware for those Linux distributions, he said. "When you talk about an operating system, if Dell is going to install it and test it, it takes a lot of work" before getting it ready for the marketplace, including having training and support in place.

It's as much work as you want to make it.

The simple solution is to ship a hardware testing CD with the box and let whatever distribution provide the "support" for anyon

If you can validate the hardware the "professional support" will come from the distribution.

This is Linux, not Windows. There's no need to stay with Microsoft's support methods. Either the hardware is flawed or there is something in the software that isn't right. And the people best able to address that would be the support staff at the distribution you're running.

Not necessarily, I voted for it and I can honestly say that as long as they sell a reasonably complete "works with linux" package I'd be happy. I would prefer that I can select an option to have it preloaded with Ubuntu and all the proprietary drivers but I definitely don't need "professional grade support". I plan on buying a new system this summer and I'm hoping that I can get it pre-built (cost of individual components relative to a pre-built system is getting kinda ridiculous). When I looked for systems that meet my needs on Dell's website I ran into the following problems:

1) No high-end AMD systems (their instruction set is better supported on Linux)
2) High-end systems do not provide an option for high-end nVidia cards (their drivers work better on linux)
3) All high-end systems require purchase of MS Windows

These problems are unacceptable and force me to look for alternative manufacturers. If you know of someone that will actually build a good linux system (desktop system, thank you very much) then let me know, otherwise I'm going to end up doing it myself again - and honestly, that's getting irritating.

Not necessarily, I voted for it and I can honestly say that as long as they sell a reasonably complete "works with linux" package I'd be happy. I would prefer that I can select an option to have it preloaded with Ubuntu and all the proprietary drivers but I definitely don't need "professional grade support"

Fine for you.

But Dell has to provide meaningful technical support to make a go of OEM Linux in the consumer market.

You don't tell retail customers to Google for answers, you don't sent them to the IRC chat rooms. You provide the level of support that is appropriate for users new to Linux or you will drown in a flood of red ink.

Well, one of the ways Distros make money is selling support. Do you see how this might work? Dell sells the hardware, along with a Distro preloaded, that comes with a support package from that Distro. Sounds pretty straightforward to me.

What stops you from buying the parts and building any box you like? And if somehow a trip to Fry's (or your local equivalent) is too scary, I'm sure you can find a few/.ters who will help you for a moderate fee, certainly for less than you'd have to pay to Dell.

Yes, he says something about that - but that's incorrect. Dell, last time I checked, does not sell high end computers for less than you can put one together. I compared about 2 months ago, and parts cost about $750, whereas the prebuilt box is at least $1200 - and that is assuming that I like each and every part that is in it (which is !likely.)

My $750 includes T6600 and 2 GB of RAM - fact, because I type this on such a box, and I just checked. My video card ($80, included in the price) is NVidia GeForce

So outsource the support! Let Dell make a deal with Novell (or better yet, RedHat or Canonical) for that company to support Linux on Dells, with the support contract included in the purchase of the computer.

Before we do this, you love me don't you???? Couldn't resist. I'm so getting flamed for this one...

Dell needs to continue listening to its customers, and give me Linux on my Dell (dude). The first step for this should be a Linux hardware forum where they discuss possible chipsets and identify possible incompatibilities before they occur. An open forum by such a large manufacturer may also put some pressure on chip and card manufacturers to open source their drivers.

As much as we've liked bashed up on Novell lately, they happen to be the best people to do this kind of hardware certification as they have explicitly stated that they are against binary drivers; hopefully they will recommend Dell ship Intel 3d hardware and this will make NVIDIA and ATI sit up and notice. Oh, and I don't think that winmodem will be acceptable either.

If they make it only slightly easier than brain surgery with a butter knife to install a fucking accelerated driver even, that would be super. I spent three days trying to go from "nv" to "nvidia" on Ubuntu and holy shit, that's not going to fly out there with Joe Windows. Most people don't care about "freedom" or "binary blobs", they want their computers to be responsive.

I don't know what version of KDE ships with Edgy, but it's pretty much unusable without an accelerated driver. GNOME is not so bad, but

Ignore the other poster, some people like to make things harder. Just get EasyUbuntu [freecontrib.org] (just download it and double click to install) and when you run it it will have a number of checkboxes (for Flash, Skype, stuff like that). Check the one that says nvidia drivers. Click apply. You might have to enter your password somewhere in there, but it's pretty straightforward.

How is that much worse then Windows? Let us recall briefly that default installs of Windows still require you to install real nvidia or ATI drivers. Now, to run this in parallel...

Open Synapic, select Settings -> Repositories, tick the box that says "Proprietary drivers for devices (restricted)", Close. Select Sections (it's the default), scroll down to the bottom and select "restricted". Click on the box next to linux-restricted-modules-2.6.10.5-1. Click apply. Watch Synapic do it's thing, restart X.

Open IE (or Firefox or Opera), click on the Address Bar, type http://www.nvidia.com/ [nvidia.com] or http://www.ati.com/ [ati.com]. Navigate through the website to the Drivers section. Find the set of drivers most appropriate for your system. Download your drivers. Double-click the downloaded drivers to load the new versions. Click through the s

An open forum by such a large manufacturer may also put some pressure on chip and card manufacturers to open source their drivers.

Dell does not need to wait to chose hardware that already has free drivers. This would be a great service to their customers who will get hardware that's certified to work with free software. Right now Dell is a crap shoot for free software users, with more losers than winners and users have to do all the homework for themselves. If you go through all that trouble, you migh

Pre-installed Linux from a reputable vendor of computer systems would require a support plan, warranty, additional software, plus allowances for upgrades later down the line that will be compatible with the Linux OS. It's not the fact that it's better, it's the fact that we can get support from our vendor if the fit hits the shan.

What are the programs on YOUR Dell/Compaq/HP/Whatever that you use daily? Were these installed by the factory, guaranteed to work with your hardware and equipped with a 1-800 n

I'm not a Linux user (yet). I just started looking into a distro to install, and I'm swimming in some unknown waters here. I can kinda sympathize. Not that I'm a huge Dell fan. I bought 2 5 years ago and was never really happy with their customer support, but as a well known, well established PC vendor, they have to have people on hand that can support a Linux environment. They've spent years as an M$ only vendor, so it's not like they have a bunch of Linux guys who can just show up and say "sure, I'll do customer support". They need to know that their support people can handle the calls. Bash Dell all you want (I won't disagree) but they still have to maintain what they sell, and so they need some level of confidence in the people who are supporting their computers. It's not like Windows where you can count on most of the users being no smarter than a tech-support person with a script to read, if they're going to be serious about sending out a box with Linux, they need to be able to support it.
It's much more than "is our hardware supported". They need to be ready for when someone who's never even seen linux calls in and needs some help. Personally I know where to go, but I can just imagine some of the people I know thinking "Linux is the next big thing, I need one of those" and then scratching their head and wondering what they got themselves into. From what I've gathered from my Linux using friends, tech support is going to be a lot more than just "restart".

I'm not a Linux user (yet). I just started looking into a distro to install,

You can run knoppix off the CD without installing anything. If you have used nothing but MS Windows it is a very different way of doing things - so I suggest giving it a try before installing anything.

The other thing to remember is unlike MS Windows there is documentation for just about everything (except for very new stuff and gnome for some reason) - so the RTFM responses to questions on mailing list are not just people being an

Actually, Kubuntu (Ubuntu with KDE) is even better for a Windows native. I just started dual-booting it on a second spare HD, and am very pleased.Tips: a package isn't a file to download, it's something you install with the Adept Package Manager.If something in command-line wants root privileges, type sudo in front of the command.

The only big issue for me (I use Ethernet, not Wi-Fi) was installing NVIDIA drivers. You need to download the binary blob from the main site (easy), then go to http://www.nvnews.ne [nvnews.net]

I'd say don't actually install it until you have played with it for a while - and yes Ubuntu can install from the CD. Like MS Windows many of the problems you may hit are on install so you need to have some good reason to want to go ahead before doing it. If you know enough about MS Windows to use the recovery console and FIXMBR fair enough - but otherwise it's worth using a live CD enough to know that you can roll back to your previous system if the BIOS can't handle a partition past 8GB on the disk or o

It's not like Windows where you can count on most of the users being no smarter than a tech-support person with a script to read....

I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I found Microsoft's support much better than Dell's. Although, maybe that's because I got their customer support for corporate users.... Even still, that's comparing it to Dell's customer support for corporate users as well....

just a guy he knew. I'm not sure he disagrees with your assessment;) It's a real problem, though; there are alot of stupid people out there, or at least people who have long since lost the ability to really think (the world tends to train it out of them).

Most of the previous posters are saying that certification is a waste of time or simple. It is not... the process of certification is not that simple.

Essentially certification means that the hardware will operate as expected/designed. Sure the kernel will support the network card... but will it support it when someone wants to make some off the wall settings that are supposed to work?

Not to mention, with the level of integration and customization done by Dell and their OEM suppliers, using a supported Broadcom NIC, for example, does not mean that it will operate correctly in Linux.

Besides... it gives linux credibility. I know I have purchased hardware thats on the linux HCL and run into compatibility issues or hardware that is supported but has limited functionality. Things have come a long way, but they are far from perfect.

Most of the previous posters are saying that certification is a waste of time or simple. It is not... the process of certification is not that simple.

Yeah, look at all the quality work that's gone into Vista drivers. HAAAaaaaaaaaa!

Michael Dell could ship hardware that has free software support today if he wanted to. It might even cost more than cheap junk Windoze machines, but it should not cost more than the same hardware with Windoze. Anything less is just FUD.

"Michael Dell could ship hardware that has free software support today if he wanted to. It might even cost more than cheap junk Windoze machines, but it should not cost more than the same hardware with Windoze. Anything less is just FUD."The hardware would cost no more... however the bundled cost to the consumer would. Dell can afford to make less than no money on the hardware by getting kickbacks for bundling 3rd party software. At the moment, there is no market for 3rd party bundles on Linux as the aver

Maybe they are just waiting for some poll that isn't flooded by people who really love linux but have no plans on buying a Dell.

Yes, its good they are considering Linux on their machines. But how many people will actually buy it? How big is the market for Dell to bother with selling it? Most people using Linux in the workplace already have their preferred Linux hardware vendor. Most people that are Dell shops are MS exclusively. That leaves the companies that have mixed vendors and home and personal use.

Verifying hardware and drivers and support staff will take time and money. They can't switch overnight, not Dell. They are too big to do it quickly. If they don't do it right the first time, they will alienate everybody that may have been interested in the past as well as losing the money they spent on failing. If they take their time and do it right, they can start eating in to HP and other hardware vendors that ship with Linux certified.

'Most people using Linux in the workplace already have their preferred Linux hardware vendor. Most people that are Dell shops are MS exclusively.'

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that Dell wouldn't be interested in investing the time and effort in stable linux support on their hardware in order to sell to their existing customers. They are doing this in hopes of gaining a piece of the millions of computers running linux.

'Verifying hardware and drivers and support staff will take time and money. They can't switch overnight, not Dell. They are too big to do it quickly. If they don't do it right the first time, they will alienate everybody that may have been interested in the past as well as losing the money they spent on failing. If they take their time and do it right, they can start eating in to HP and other hardware vendors that ship with Linux certified.'

On that point I couldn't agree more. When this is done and it is successful it will be a huge milestone for Linux. First Linux was considered a joke for actual use. It wasn't polished like windows and wasn't considered stable and secure like traditional unix. Then it creeped into the server and now it is a proven and even common server solution. Now Linux is generally considered the ideal choice for the backroom unless vendor lockin ties your business to a windows only feature. In recognition of this Dell offers server systems with Linux pre-installed. This will be the next step that means that means the time of Linux on the business desktop is here. It will take awhile to fill this segment. Just like it took awhile for Linux to move from internet related servers only to being accepted for every server room function. Eventually the secretary will be running Linux and it will be informally trickling into the home user desktop.

Every year they claim it is the year of the linux desktop. What people seem to forget is that Linux will never go out of business. The linux on the desktop cause has no need for this year to be the year. Five, ten, or twenty years from now is just as good as this year. Every year the linux desktops outpace the proprietary systems in development and close compatability gaps. Every year the desktops become more polished and suitable for new classes of users. Every year the battles in the real desktop war, that of mindshare, continue to be won and the current desktop monopoly retreats a bit more.

Most people using Linux in the workplace already have their preferred Linux hardware vendor.

I run linux at work on several machines, and have a preferred hardware vendor, Dell. I have installed linux on dell laptops, desktops, and rackmount servers. I just get them shipped with no OS. No big deal. I have never had a single hardware problem. If it came with linux pre-installed, sure why not, but it won't sway my actions one way or the other.

Dell used to get linux support through Linuxcare http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LinuxCare [wikipedia.org] and, if I recall they also had a contract
with Redhat. If these left a bad taste, they may want to try to do it in house. In that case, it would take some time to build a team.

If that is the problem, start suggesting a group that could just step and handle the workload.

No, Dell won't do Linux in house. It would be a waste of money. The idea is to pay someone to design a computer system, pay someone to identify and create the default OS and OS configuration, pay someone to identify what software should be part of this endeavor, pay someone to put in all the nifty dell graphics and popups, and then pay someone to create a default install image (with some minor changes per drive to allow licensing, unique identifying, parchesi, etc).

Big companies do jack on their own these days, its (almost) all hired out consultants, and for good reason. Consultants are competitive, when you put an order out for bid a consultant will shave every dollar they can off the price to make sure they get the contract. This is why the open source model is so fantastic, the money in providing Open Source Services instead of Open Source Products is incredible, and it even allows for innovation (though if it's gonna be distributed, it has to come with the source). Constant, competitive, powerful innovation drives Open Source to be the BEST OF BREED, and that's who companies should hire.

they may want to try to do it in house. In that case, it would take some time to build a team.

It would be nice if Dell started doing support. With calls spanning two weeks and three continents (I talked to people in the USA, Singapore, India and Australia) and being faxed all the details of another client just in an attempt to purchase a spare battery I have little confidence in their abilities in this way.

This really does worry me - if the linux Dell's do come out and are cheaper with SUSE or whatever distro they go with, I'm sure your everyday Joe will buy it. I worry that everyday Joe will then get stuck if he can't get something working with a GUI. I'm not trolling. I've seen people download windows programs and expect them to run in Linux when they double click setup.exe Its worse if they call the "Windows guru" whose never touched linux and cannot help. If Joe gets really frustrated he "upgrades" to Windows and vows never to try Linux again.

Let Dell take their time because if this is going to work its going to have to be seamless and familiar. I'd actually be thrilled once Dell picks out a distro because thats a big impetus to standardize a lot of things to it, GUI, installer and package manager especially. If you can get a standard cross distro installer and package format, unfortunately like InstallShield, that correctly adds entries for menus, and just works then Linux is really ready for the desktop.

SUSE doesn't have any real community momentum these days and - at least from what I hear - is still plagued by spiralling dependency problems. Have they or are they going to sort this stuff out?

The documentation and community around Ubuntu is so strong that they'd surely get far less phone-calls if they chose this distribution, while 're-selling' Ubuntu's commercial support option if the customer desired it. In other words, ship with Ubuntu soon/now and just outsource the support to either the community or the paid pros? I'm sure if Dell was to start shipping with Ubuntu pre-installed Mark would consider edging something like 'Feisty' into LTS status.

I would be surprised if the only reason they wouldn't do something like this is to meet MS half way, as their SUSE vendor. It's obvious the most noise regarding Linux on Dell points toward Ubuntu.

Disclaimer: I'm not a daily Ubuntu user, I've just seen users that try it stick to it for a sustained period, whether coming from SUSE, Windows, Fedora or OS X.

One, they are partnered with Microsoft, so they won't lose the deals they get from MS for their Windows-based systems, which will undoubtedly outsell their Linux-based systems, at the very least for a long time.

Two, SUSE is one of the few distros that has paid support. Unfortunately, as hard as it may seem to believe, people actually tend to PREFER paid support. Mostly because it means end-users can have people kissing their ass as they try to find the any key. Also, I'm sure it's easier for Dell to figure out who's full of it when they get applicants for Linux support because "experience in Ubuntu" doesn't mean quite as much as "worked at Novell".

Disclaimer: I'm both a Windows (2000 and XP) and Kubuntu user, but most certainly not a Dell user.

As I said above, I think it's only because of this partnering with Microsoft. Canonical already offers the option of paid support [ubuntu.com] and now, certification. How long can a rationale of partnering with Novell or RH on that basis really hold anymore? Other vendors like this one [system76.com] are actually proving that going with the most popular distribution makes economic sense. Who's choosing SUSE for their
Perhaps the real motivation for going with SUSE is that they don't actually want Linux on Dell to work, at least too w

I tried Ubuntu, briefly, on CD. Purty, but the sound of my drive in terminal thrash mode didn't inspire confidence. (Older hardware with limited ram, but it runs Slackware on HD or Knoppix on CD just dandy, thanks.)

Dell will only provide free software pre-installed when they start to loose marketshare to companies that provide installation and support of GNU/Linux on desktops and laptops. Why not buy your next computer from system76 [system76.com]?

Aren't there plenty of Dell models that cost more than what it would cost to build an equivalent system? When you buy a computer from an OEM, you are paying for testing (the hardware and software is known to work with each other, so you shouldn't need to spend hours hunting around for drivers and configuring devices) and support (warranties, trouble shooting, and additional help). If you don't need those things, feel free to build your own system. If you do, compare the support you get with dell to the s

to write the support scripts. Not until they can blame 99% of the problems on the customer will they be prepared to offer support for it. All they excuses they've collected for Windows will be of little use for them, they'll have to start from scratch.

You know, up to this point I wouldn't even slightly consider Dell either (IMO, the only decent laptops are MacBooks and Thinkpads), but if Dell follows through it might be enough to make me change my mind. Who says the OP isn't allowed to change his mind, too?

Told you so [slashdot.org]. Microsoft won't let Dell do it. Microsoft controls the terms of Dell's OEM discount on Windows. Microsoft imposes many requirements for that discount. Why do you think you see "Dell Recommends Windows Vista" all over the site?

What does your rant have to do with Dell needing time to shore up support venues for Linux? Dell hasn't said that "Sorry, Microsoft won't let us do it." They said it's just going to take time to build a solid chain of support.

All they are doing is defining the minimum time frame for me to give them money. If it takes them a year to build and support Linux systems, it'll be a minimum of 1 year before they get money from me. If it takes them 20 years, it'll be a minimum of 20 years before they get money from me. I'm sure they'll let me know when it is they would like some money.

3% of a market with 800 million customers is still a nice chunk of change. Even if they only make $50 profit from each it's still about $1.25 billion. If Dell only captured a quarter of the available Linux market, that's still over $300 million. Again, that's assuming only $50 profit per customer.

It can also be considered that Linux desktop usage only currently has 3%-4% market penetration, but Dell introducing a serious product into the market is likely to increase that figure. Maybe reselling Macs wo

"not an announcement that the computers would be loaded and sold with the operating system in the near future"Retailers hate to announce new features more than just a little bit into the future for fear of someone who was ready to buy today putting off their purchase for any considerable length of time. They don't mind if there is a hard date for consumers to look forward to and start saving up, like if they announced this would start in April. But with no definite time frame some purchasers might

Before OEMs can even think about pre-installing an OS they need to create an infrastructure that is going to work. The software needs to have a functional software installer/distribution method, and patches and updates need to work without too much user interaction.

Today for instance I was attempting to install my nVidia drivers onto my OpenSuSE 10.2 install, and it is giving me a very difficult time. Without the drivers, I can run the desktop at 1024x768 on my LCD. Once I install them, it doesn't recognize my monitor, and refuses to give me any other resolution but 800x600 at 50Hz.

Things like that simply HAVE to work from the get go. People are used to popping in a CD, or clicking a few buttons, and their products work. They will not take the time to jump onto IRC and talk to some really angry geeks who think they are gods of computers and try out any terminal commands.

I think Dell is on the right track at least because this puts some pressure on the other OEMs to tap into the market. Basically whichever OEM finishes the infrastructure first (my money is on Dell by way of India and China) gets the prize.

Had the enter key pop off on my laptop. They sent a new one within 2 days. The instructions were missing so the guy talked me through replacing the keyboard while I was on the phone. (It turns out to be pretty simple, but I didn't know that at the time).So between broken keyboard and fixed 2 days.

Support staff seemed very friendly and knowledgable.

Of course this was a hardware problem so software may be a different story. But I think preloading linux with a major distro shouldn't be a problem. Send out a s

"The company said today that the note was just about certifying the hardware for being ready to work with Novell SUSE Linux, not an announcement that the computers would be loaded and sold with the operating system in the near future..."

Not necessarily a stupid move, since distributing that operating system quite possibly violates (or will violate) the GPL. If copyright infringement lawsuits result from the Novell-Microsoft deal, Dell would likely want to hold Novell at arm's length.

Ok, so I can understand they need some time to get Linux properly tested on their laptops, I don't mind that. How about their number 5 popular idea at ideastorm then: "No OS Preloaded".

Surely it doesn't take a lot of time to manage to deliver a laptop or computer just with a plain-old *empty* hard-disc ? I don't see what testing or certifying or whatever should be needed to do that. It's also what most nerds would want anyway, because you can bet whatever linux-variant Dell opts for ain't going to be precisely the one you want anyway.

A "naked" variant for all their computers would be a good first step, and should be easy.

Will Dell PCs with linux be cheaper than the SAME model with windows or will everyone still be eligible for the Microsoft tax? If there is no price decrease on models bearing linux this is all a hoax, then you're paying for something you're not getting (windows) and still lining the pockets of Microsoft.

Most likely the price will be the same, because a PC without Windows promotes piracy!!!11 Right.

Why is this a reason not to buy a Dell? If I want to be confident that I will be able to run Linux on my machine with no driver issues, I buy Dell. The servers are all Linux-friendly, because you can buy them with Linux loaded. Also I've never heard of any issues with laptops or desktops. You can even ask their sales people about Linux support, while other manufacturers won't talk to you about it. As a Linux user, I would go straight to Dell.

"Also I've never heard of any issues with laptops or desktops"
Then you've never looked very hard.
I own a Dell laptop and can say that the overall experience under Linux isn't the same as Windows because of Dell. Dell has custom tweaks in the ATI driver that provides better performance (aside from that fact that Linux ATI drivers suck) as well as adjustments for the LCD that I can't change in Linux. Don't even get me started on my Dell wifi card which is based on a broadcom chipset. Since 2.6.17, I have had native kernel support, but there are still some APs that I can't connect to, for example APs that use shared WEP keys.

I'm typing this on a Dell laptop running Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4 WS - but then I chose to order one with an Intel wireless card and a Nvidia GPU, so it works. The reason your laptop is more annoying to use under Linux than under Windows is that you chose to buy one with a Broadcom wireless chip and an ATi GPU - which would be the same if it was a Lenovo or Sony or HP with those parts installed, and so absolutely not "because of Dell". Any suckiness is down to ATi, Broadcom and your own choices.

I'm going to run out of town with a mob carrying torches and pitch forks just for saying this, but THIS is why Linux--despite anyones claims--is simply not ready for the desktop.

When a guy that has enough knowledge and comfort to actually install and run linux STILL didn't know all the esoteric reasons why you need a specific GPU or WiFi card, etc, how could you ever hope for a regular joe-user to know?

I'm certain that the average user doesn't know a GPU from an IOU and they don't want to know.

Whether or not this is a GOOD thing (i think it is, personally), users are accustom to something that Microsoft does that/. gives them no credit for: Ensuring hardware compatibility--usually "plug & play" style--for nearly anything that you can buy at Best Buy or Dell or CompUSA.

When linux can say the same, then you're on to something. Until then, stop evangelizing so much and spend more time writing decent drivers.

The server market--esp. web server--Linux is awesome. But desktops are a different beast. You can argue that the desktop shells for Linux are excellent now--and that was an important piece of the puzzle--but now that users have a desktop they might actually want to USE IT for something, and to do that, they'll need support for networking, optical, and video hardware.

While I respect that, I also see the reason... Servers typically mean a larger client, which typically means more money. Money = good = Dell happy. I imagine if my 2 dell systems cost more than the $5k (U.S.) I spent on them (combined), I'd be getting a bit more customer support too. If they put Linux on their machines, they need to deal with the thousands (or, more likely, millions) of customers who bought one system and demand customer support. Financially it's a nightmare. Putting Linux on their bo

'If your program doesnt install correctly on your Dell, you call MS, not Dell.'bzzzt wrong. Dell and every other major vendor ships an OEM copy of windows with their machine. Support for windows and all the other oem software shipped with the machine is provided by Dell. If you call MS they will want per incident fees.

'I dont understand why tech support would be the thing holding Dell back. Maybe this is a cop-out?'

It isn't like Dell is saying that Linux isn't coming. They just have a certification process

Just get a Mac! Seriously! I'm not trying to troll or start a flamefest here, but the Mac user experience on a laptop (bold for all you would-be flamers out there) is light years ahead of Linux or Windows. Let's face it, Linux laptop support has never been a top priority. And even using OEM equipment from Dell, HP, IBM, etc., I've never had a laptop that was perfectly stable, power management worked 100% of the time, and always came out of hibernate and suspend, all the buttons worked, the screen never went

Thousands of Linux developers haven't gotten this right in a decade, yet

I think thousands of newbies to the platform come in wanting to do a GUI only thing, discover something as simple and useful as grep and then realise that the command line has a place. Years back my atari which orginally only had a GUI was rendered far more useful with a command line.

I would happily pay extra for a system that I knew would work with Free Software drivers. Looking around for compatible hardware and jiggering the system so that it works with binary-only drivers takes my time, and my time is worth something.