December 28, 2006

At the risk of this sounding like sour grapes, I would have to say that I agree with Taylor. Merriman's quote from the article says "If I wasn't having the season I'm having, this wouldn't even be a discussion." My response to that is, the steroids might be a major contributor to the season he's having.

Jason Taylor's statements are so ridiculously self-serving that they don't merit having a legitimate discussion about this. I agree with Merriman. He is having a superb year and Taylor wants to win defensive MVP, so he has made this comments. Even after Merriman has come back (clean) from his suspension, he is playing fantastic.

I agree with Taylor. Merriman got to where he is by using PED's. If you stop taking them, you don't shrivel up. A decent gym routine will keep you where the PED's got you. A pro athlete should have no trouble maintaining. But all that is secondary to the guy basically getting caught cheating, and now he's being rewarded for it. The four game suspension is supposed to be a deterrent, not a payment. Leads me to think the NFL's punishment isn't strong enough. I've thought Merriman has gotten off easy in the ol' court of public opinion, so if it takes a self serving statement to bring on the criticism, so be it. (on edit: Maybe I played judge and jury a bit too much, but I think you get my point.)

Shawn Merriman: 16 sacks - 2 FF - 1 INT Jason Taylor: 13 1/2 sacks - 10 FF - 2 INT (Both returned for TD's) The only difference is that "Light Out" violated the league's steriod policy and served a 4 game suspension. Example: If Barry Bonds was caught violating MLB's steriod policy and was suspended for 50 games and upon his return he continued to bash home run after home run, should he be rewarded for it? Same notion, Shawn Merriman violated the rules. Yes, he served his suspension but doesn't getting caught mean anything anymore? He might be having a hell of a season but who's to say that it wasn't because of the performing-enhancing whatever it was? Jason Taylor is correct and deserves to be named the Defensive Player of the Year.

Were I in the NFL front office, I would consider it to be a big problem if Merriman won the award. I would probably try to prevent that from happening for the good of the league. Of course, if he does win - the hypocrisy would be magnificent.

This kind of reminds me of the stupid honor code at my stupid college. People took the honor code seriously...so some nitwit decided that it would be a good thing to make anything they didn't want people to do an honor code violation. You can probably guess what the result was. The offense merited a four-game suspension. Them's the rules. Now, after it's all said and done, you want to tack on some other sanction? Get away from me.

How is the winner determined, or who gets to vote? I loosely agree with you lbb that he has served his sentence. On the other hand, if I had a vote it I would have to consider the circumstances and would not vote for him. I'm not saying he should not be eligible, but it would definitely cloud my decision.

Well, under the rules, he should definitely be considered. Outstanding performance on a shortened schedule. I'm in favor of changing the penalties so you can't be rewarded in a season you were in violation, but he shouldn't be punished again for what the NFL has already punished him.

This kind of reminds me of the stupid honor code at my stupid college. People took the honor code seriously...so some nitwit decided that it would be a good thing to make anything they didn't want people to do an honor code violation. I have absolutely no idea what point you're making here. Merriman was suspending for taking a substance that clearly would enhance his performance, and there's little to no doubt he benefitted from the effects of the substance both before and after his suspension. What does that have to do with an honour code?

Perhaps all of the games/stats he played in this season (prior to his suspension) should be deleted. If he plays well enough from that point on to merit winning some type of award, he should get it. I have to agree with almost everyone above on the fact that he used a PERFORMANCE ENHANCING substance and got busted and that he shouldn't be rewarded for his play while under the influence. This seems to be the first time this type of thing has happened and the NFL doesn't have a clear-cut policy on it, however I would hope that the people who vote for these type of awards have enough integrity to keep this type of guy from winning. I am not saying that Merriman is an a-hole or anything like that, but he did cheat and he shouldn't be awarded for that.

frazer, think of the honor code as the NFL's rules. Merriman broke the rules, and paid the price. If he then comes back and wins an award, the problem is not with Merriman, it's with the rules themselves. Make them stricter for next time if it's such a big deal. Obviously, to the League and the Player's Association, even in the light of all that has happened in the last decade, it stands as it is. Changing the rules retroactively, especially because of the complaining of someone who stands to benefit from same, is kind of dubious. Morality and what's "right" or "wrong," whatever that means, doesn't enter into this discussion. Taylor can question the morality of Merriman taking steroids all he wants. But this is news because he's asking for the rules to be changed mid-year, for Taylor's own personal benefit. Nice try, big fella.

Merriman was suspending for taking a substance that clearly would enhance his performance, and there's little to no doubt he benefitted from the effects of the substance both before and after his suspension. There is doubt that he benefitted, especially since we have no idea what amount he had in his system. The LA Times article from the FPP earlier this month revealed that the threshold for testing positive (at least for WADA) is a much smaller amount than could possibly have a performance-enhancing effect, but could come from contaminated supplements. And, since he has always been a star, winning rookie of the year last year, I don't think you can infer based on his performance that his performance was enhanced.

Okay, I do have to agree with bperk. We don't know what or how much he used and maybe he did flunk by accident. LBB's point about adding additional sanctions after the fact is also valid. But I don't know that I think this should be a sanction, more like common sense. You get caught cheating on an exam, you don't make dean's list. You use PED's you shouldn't win awards. But I do see LBB's and bperk's arguments. They're just not nearly as much fun as my get-out-the-rope-and-pitchfork mentality. Damn.

OK, chico, I think I get lbb's angle now, but I also agree with SummersEve -- I think it's pretty straightforward to assume if you fail a steroid test, you won't receive a postseason award for your performance.

I think it's pretty straightforward to assume if you fail a steroid test, you won't receive a postseason award for your performance. That's probably true. Merriman probably wasn't going to get it anyway. Jason Taylor has been pretty much the front runner anyway, but his self-serving righteous indignation is a bit much.

I think it's pretty straightforward to assume if you fail a steroid test, you won't receive a postseason award for your performance. Probably not, if there's any discretion in the voting (that is, if the award isn't purely calculated on the numbers). So let the chips fall where they may, at least for this season. If the idea is that a steroid violator shouldn't even be eligible for the ballot, that's something for the future -- to do it this year seems a bit too ex post facto for my liking.

I was about to say that there is no way Merriman gets voted as the MVP, but I said the same thing about Ray Lewis during Super Bowl XXXV when he was coming off murder charges. Needless to say, at second thought, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Merriman was on the ballot.

Here's the other side of all this: Shawn Merriman may not care so much, seeing as he's on a team that's got home field advantage through the playoffs. The Dolphins were varying shades of crap all year long. All Taylor has going for him this year (aside from being rich, young and pretty on South Beach) is this award. That was the first thing I thought of when I saw this story. Merriman's on probably the NFL's best team at the moment, while Taylor's only got a tan to worry about after next week. Idle minds find things to kvetch about.

his self-serving righteous indignation is a bit much. bperk, I'd like to introduce myself; I'm a (near) lifelong Miami Dolphins fan, and I'm a huge fan of Jason Taylor. He's a spectacular athlete who will go down in my mind with Phins legends like Buoniconti, Dick Anderson, the Blackwood Brothers, A.J. Duhe, John Offerdahl, and Taylor's own soon-to-be-ex-brother-in-law Zach Thomas. Ergo, this is not a personal attack at all, but a Homer Attack. Just wanna get that straight going in. I have no idea what you do for a living, or whether there's a drug one can take to be better at your job, but if there was, and it was illegal, you wouldn't do it, would you? Hell no, you wouldn't, because you're a righteous employee who doesn't fuck about. But ol' Bob down the hall there, he's loaded. Morning, noon, night, he's goofy on the juice. So, end of the year rolls around, and you and Pillhead Bob are up for Employee of the Year, or Junior Partner, or some such other important, impressive plateau/title/pay structure, and it's really looking like this asshole might beat you out, despite all the hard (and, one might add, honest and chemically-unaltered) work you've put in. What happens now? Do you say something? Do you quietly go to Human Resources, or your boss, and ask, "You know Bob over there's hopped up on Bang Bang Office-Fu Pills, right? He's completely out of his head, man." Or do you let Bob the Pillhead screw you over because you don't want to come off as self-righteous, indignant, or whiny? And, just to add in a little bit, what if, outside this promotion/raise you had been having a shitty year? What if you were going through a public divorce, had been attacked and cut by some trailer trash racist a few months before because you're married to a white woman, and your particular corporate entity wasn't doing all that well? What if this was, maybe, your own chance at some sort of professional satisfaction, your lone bright spot, what do you do? Sorry for the novella. Happy New Year!

The novella? Is this a Choose Your Own Adventure? If so, what page do I turn to if I decided I wanted to get some of those Bang Bang Office-Fu pills? Or is this like "Basic Instinct" and that's the end and we'll never what happened? 'Cause I hate cliffhangers.

I think Jason Taylor impugns the integrity of the league with his statements. He said that people like Merriman, who fail a drug test, shouldn't even be in the league. Translation: the leagues drug policy is a failure or inadequate. I can guarantee that I would not make any end of year statements saying that my company's corporate culture allows losers like my colleague to succeed. Further, Jason Taylor has been in this league long enough to not need to toot his own horn by putting another player down.

Well, Homer, I'lliad one more question which you odyssey: What if the penalty for taking them Bang Bang Office-Fu pills, as sanctioned by your employer, was an unpaid four-day weekend, and that was it? Even if Pharma Phil got caught, it meant he had time to relax, bleed some unwatched episodes of What Not To Wear off the TiVo, hit the spa, scrub the tub, and show up for work the following Tuesday refreshed, fully rehabilitated, and ready to take on that world all over again. Penalty paid in full, here's your receipt, thank you, drive through. Then does it matter who's more deserving of the Corner Office? Maybe. But maybe not. If you go to the CEO and say something to that effect, then perhaps his choice becomes the cheater versus the whiner. What then, Abstainer Stan? You might want to think about how you want to paint the floor before you open your piehole next time, skippy.

What happens now? Do you say something? Do you quietly go to Human Resources, or your boss, and ask, "You know Bob over there's hopped up on Bang Bang Office-Fu Pills, right? He's completely out of his head, man." TBH, dude...everybody knows. There is no need whatsoever to go quietly (or loudly) to HR or the boss; they already know. So what's the point of bellowing, "He did it! He did it! Yes, he did!"?

JT should go to MLB and he wouldn't need to say shit because everyone else would be screaming already at the top of their lungs, bang bang office-fu pills don't fly anymore at that company. It's just that this NFL company is so demanding that everyone expects the employees to be on bang bang office-fu pills so it's not a big deal, it's almost expected.

Shawne should get the "This is how you get to the big leagues" award. He can stand proudly with Mark McGwire, Barry Bonds, Ken Caminiti and all the other big heads that took shortcuts and won awards. I could care less about whether he is Defensive MVP or not- he is a cheater and he and all the other cheaters are sending the wrong message. If you want to be even better- just juice. What a load of crap. I can see high school kids all over saying "It made these guys champions and make it to the pro's, I am good, but with the right edge I can get there too". (Yes- that does happen, I have seen it and discussed it with athletes I have coached). Great role models!

regarding the idea of Jason Taylor going around complaining about Merriman... Wednesday I read a slightly longer article that mentions that his statements were made during a conference call with reporters in Indianapolis. To make it seem like Taylor's stomping his feet and crying about the fact that Merriman has a chance of winning isn't really fair. If he was asked if he thinks that it would be fair if Merriman won, what would you expect him to say? He clearly thinks that such a suspension should disqualify Merriman from certain accolades, many others agree-all JT did was offer his opinion.

Both are excellent players. I could agree with either of them winning the award for their excellence. But I have to go along with "86" and say I am not surprised that a cheater can win. With Ray Lewis' "obstructing" and two people murdered by . . . apparently no one, and our all-time favorite party animal, LT, in the HOF, what do you really excpect from the NFL and its members? Best to watch the games enjoy the incredible talents and athleticism and root for your 'TEAM" than to get caught up in individual awards or honors. It's fun bar fodder to debate who is best, but honestly, teams endure. Players are merely individuals.

Well said Captaincavegirl. People, consider the context of a statement before jumping to conclusions. The media loves to take a response to a question in a series of a long interview and make it seem as though the interviewee called a press conference just to make the statement. I think Jason Taylor's response was perfectly reasonable. Do you any of you honestly disagree with the following statement: "It's against the rules and, ultimately, I think it's sending the wrong message to the youth in America and the people who look at this game not only as entertainment but also to learn lessons from it for the young kids who play football." Anyway, I do agree that Merriman should not be punished twice for the same crime. I also think that inelligibility for postseason honors should be part of the punishment for the crime of getting caught for PEDs. If someone interviewed me and asked what I thought about Merriman getting pro-bowl honors I would have said something very similar to what Taylor said.

Actually LT never got popped for steroids. The drugs he did were a detriment to his career and not performance enhancing. Nonetheless, I can see and somewhat support your argument in the grand scheme of things. If Shawne Merriman were on weed, alcohol, no sleep and crack (like LT) then I doubt he would be in the running for MVP. Not that that makes a role model either. But we are talking apples and coconuts.

The bottom line is that Jason taylor has meant more to his team than merriman, Merriman is a great talent and will dominate for years to come but the chargers didnt lose much when he was out with the suspension. I agree with Taylor in that it sets a bad president to reward Merriman when he hasnt earned it off the feild as well as on. Jason Taylor has never been a whiner and with as much as he has meant to that team this year he should be the front runner regardless.

Chico- did I miss something? I looked over the whole thread and never saw a quote that said "Won't someone think of the children?" If you are referring to what I wrote you are uneduacated and assuming things that weren't said. There are in fact kids in HS that think PED's will help them get to the next level. Promoting players that are admitted users of those substances sets a bad example, like it or not. And WTF is "reaching for your revolver" supposed to mean. Are you construing threats big man or contemplating suicide? Be clear about your intentions. In my line of work it could mean the difference between your life or death.

You might want to think about how you want to paint the floor before you open your piehole next time, skippy. Oh yeah? Well, I happen to like this corner of the room, Slappy. In this corner of the room, you don't pop steroids and win the MVP. That's what I meant to say, that's what I said, and I maintain that position. The effects of steroids do not just magically disappear becuase you were given a four-game suspension. The NFL has made great strides since the bad old days of Steve Courson and Lyle Alzado; to give any award to a player who has been caught and suspended for taking performance enhancing substances torpedoes any legitimacy said award had in the first place. I also submit that nowhere in the current CBA does it assert that a suspension will be the only punishment, sanction, or penalty for PED abuse.

And WTF is "reaching for your revolver" supposed to mean. Are you construing threats big man or contemplating suicide? Be clear about your intentions. In my line of work it could mean the difference between your life or death. Wait a second... wouldn't it mean death either way?

If you are referring to what I wrote you are uneduacated Priceless. I'm inclined to agree with DudeDykstra. I sincerely doubt that Jason Taylor got up on a soapbox after practice and started yelling about the injustice of it all. More likely the Miami writers have taken a look around and realized that Merriman is Taylor's main competition, then asked him, "Do you think Merriman should be eligible?" While the smartest move might have been to simply give no comment, I don't think Taylor's statements are out of line or unreasonable. However, I also believe that if a player can miss a quarter of the regular season and return to put up the kind of numbers Merriman has logged, that is a pretty impressive accomplishment. It's not as if he is the only NFL player to use enhancers. I don't think the fact that he failed a drug test utterly voids his stats this season. The man did the crime, served his punishment, and that should be the end of that. Let's face it -- nobody gets more worked up about steroid use than sportswriters, and this award is given out by the press. I just don't see them giving it to Merriman. He'll have other opportunities to win it, because the man is obviously one hell of a football player. Stay off the banned substances, buddy!

If Shawne Merriman were on weed, alcohol, no sleep and crack (like LT) then I doubt he would be in the running for MVP. Actually, that would probably help him get into the Hall of Fame like it did Lawrence Taylor though. Just my guess. If you are referring to what I wrote you are uneduacated... Sorry Johnny, but if your going to bash someone for being, in your opinion, uneducated, you should really learn how to spell it correctly. Or the very least, proofread it first. No one needs to be insulted, it's not needed. Bang Bang Office-Fu Pills Now that's funny!

I also doubt that Jason Taylor would have made the remarks unless he was questioned about it. I do agree with him. As a lifelong Giant fan, I have to give my two cents about the LT issue. I find it appalling that LT is in the Hall, while Phil Simms is not. Simms made the offense go, while LT made the defense tick. LT did make MVP and put up huge numbers, but his overall contribution was not as great as Simms. LT had more help defensively than Simms had offensively. Simms also was SB MVP. The latest drama- last night Merriman said that he sent Taylor a "Lights Out" video, a "Lights Out" hat and a bag of popcorn so he could enjoy the playoff games at home. What a class act.

The latest drama- last night Merriman said that he sent Taylor a "Lights Out" video, a "Lights Out" hat and a bag of popcorn so he could enjoy the playoff games at home. Okay, that was kinda funny. I don't think Jason Taylor needed to make the point at all since everyone was already making it for him. Undoubtedly the media asked him a question, but he could have said it more diplomatically. Some thing along the lines of what Champ Bailey saying that it would be better for him or the league next season after this whole PED things blows over. As an aside, Jason Taylor's teammate, Ricky Williams, is suspended for testing positive for a PED, do you think JT will welcome him back?

What's performance-enhancing about marijuana? Nothing. That's what he tested positive for the first three times. The last was something different that he allegedly got from a nutritional supplement (which is what Merriman's argument is as well).

Johnnylaw, spelling issues aside, I find it funny that you call me uneducated for deriding "think of the children" as an effective argument, and then reusing that exact red herring in your very next sentence. Unless there are children directly involved in the subject at hand, "the kids" don't deserve special mention in an argument about some award that only really matters to people who have a bonus for winning same written into their contracts. (Although it is true that both Merriman and Taylor are now acting like children; if that was your point, I concede my argument.) The children are not the NFL's (or any other professional sport's) concern. They're in the entertainment business first and foremost, not the babysitting business. Sometimes they overlap; children have parents with credit cards; but never (as we keep getting reminded, every day) are they identical goals. Keep in mind that trinkets like Defensive Player Of The Year are decided by a vote. What Jason Taylor is doing is campaigning for the one prize he still has a chance at. Whether this "attack ad" of his will have the desired effect is what we're debating here.

As an aside, Jason Taylor's teammate, Ricky Williams, is suspended for testing positive for a PED, do you think JT will welcome him back? Maybe but not if Ricky wins the Comeback Player of the Year award or is up against JT for some sort of award. (that was a joke guys) I think that JT's statements were taken out of context as well but he was on point anyways. There are no rules & regulations regarding a player being suspended for a few game whether it be for drugs or for conduct detrimental to the team and then recieving an award. The point is, Shawn Merriman was suspended for testing positive for steriods which enchances ones' performance and "Light's Out" was basically playing like a man possessed out there collecting an average of almost 2 sacks per game. So the question is, should Shawn Merriman win the award? I believe that he should be a candidate for it but I personally think that JT is having a better year. This is an individual award so even though the Dolphins are not having a great year like the Chargers are, JT is playing better overall.

My problem with Merriman is that he didn't play all year. He was absent for 1/4 of the season while serving his suspension. He let his team down during a tough stretch of games. While his stats are incredible, I don't find it appropriate for him to be Player of the Year. As far as Taylor is concerned, he was asked his opinion and he gave it. I really don't see his responses to be an attack ad. Taylor acknowledges that he's in the entertainment business but he also knows that football is a tool for building character in young people. One of the main things football has to teach is personal responsibility for the good of the team. Getting suspended for four games wasn't responsible and it could have hurt the team. Shawne Merriman, Defensive Player of the Year, in my opinion, just doesn't sound right.

I just think that rightly or wrongly, fairly or unfairly, Merriman winning the award would be construed as being an endorsement of steriod use in the NFL and, indirectly, at large. I don't think the NFL can afford to be that cavalier about it's steriod policy (which is fundamentally a joke, anyway). I think the specific fact that it was steriods has more bearing than the fact that he was suspended. We're in the steriod era. It matters. That and the award is not necessarily based solely on statistics. Taylor should win it based on his good year, and his not being suspended for steriod use. I fail to see any rational arguement to the contrary. Judging by Merriman's career so far, he has the potential to collect a few of these later on. You know, when he doesn't get suspended for steriods.

Merriman winning the award would be construed as being an endorsement of steriod use in the NFL and, indirectly, at large. I don't think the NFL can afford to be that cavalier about it's steriod policy (which is fundamentally a joke, anyway). The AP gives the award, not the NFL.

Champ Bailey weighs in on Taylor's side of the debate: "After testing positive, I don't think he should be given anything this year," Bailey said. "I hope he didn't do it. I hope he took it unknowingly. I don't want to throw him under the bus any more than he already has been. I think he's a great player and I love talking to him. But I don't think guys who tested positive should win anything the year they test positive."

Yeah, well, if enough people think that way, then he won't. But suggesting that the rules be rewritten in mid-season, especially at the request of one of the other nominees, just comes off as a little... whiny. If people really believe that the price for failing a steroids test should be amended to be a four-game suspension plus exclusion from any postseason awards, have them write it into the CBA for next year. But for this year, it's too late. It's in the hands of the sportswriters now, for good or ill. (There's a conclusion in here somewhere about Floridians messing with voting procedures in midstream that I am too much of a gentleman to track down.)

Chico, there aren't any rules that can be rewritten, it's a reward...given by an entity that has absolutely nothing to do with the CBA. What, is Taylor a registered Republican or something? He gave his opinion, that's all. (There's a conclusion in here somewhere about Floridians messing with voting procedures in midstream that I am too much of a gentleman to track down.) Gentleman? Dude, I'm honestly surprised that you'd lay crap like that out here.

Dude, I'm honestly surprised that you'd lay crap like that out here. No doubt, no doubt. Man talks like that's looking to get his ass kicked over the Internet. Down with open discussion! Death to sarcasm! Death to irony!Checked off that last one as done

apoch, I can't find the "rules," that people keep referring to here. I don't think it's a punishment to not be rewarded. It's simply not being rewarded. If you can find the "rules" that apply to AP awards, I'd love to see them. No doubt, no doubt. Man talks like that's looking to get his ass kicked over the Internet. Down with open discussion! Death to sarcasm! Death to irony! Yeah, ass kickin' that's what I was talking about. Nooo... irony is that political snarks are a-okay, on this sports site, as long as they're anti-republican. "Open" discussion is really cool as long it doesn't offend you, Yerfatma. Sarcasm, is a great friend of mine, I wish it well, always. Geez. TBH, glad you think I needed a primer. What's on your nose? Oh yeah? Well, I happen to like this corner of the room, Slappy. In this corner of the room, you don't pop steroids and win the MVP. That's what I meant to say, that's what I said, and I maintain that position. The effects of steroids do not just magically disappear becuase you were given a four-game suspension. I was in your corner, at least as far as the Defensive Player of the Year was concerned, not sure about the MVP. I guess political inclusion is more important to you than how we feel about sports issues. That's why politics shouldn't be here.

Did you not see where the "primer" comment linked to? Did you even look before you decided to get your panties in a bunch? Because it didn't have a damned thing to do with you. Nor did my reply to chico's earlier comment. You want to start a slap fight where there's not one, you go right ahead, I'm more than happy to watch. As far as my nose, political inclusion, and whatever bias you're trying to dump in here, I have no clue what you're babbling about.

Dude, I did look first. All I saw was Dick Pound, WADA, WADA, WADA,Dick Pound and butting heads. I had no idea what that had to do with me. I also have no idea what writing a quick primer means. No slap fights for me, I'll just be un-ruffling my panties somewhere and no, you can't watch. Apologies.

Jason Taylor is just a "cry baby" and he knows that Merriman has had a better season and would probably get the award over Jason. I think Taylor's next profession should be politics. He's already started.