A guy said, "Sure," and he went in the back. A couple minutes later he came out and said, "I don't have a 10, but I got a 9."

"Great. Because while you were in the back, my toes were severed off. Normally it would be retarded for you to say a number different than what we agreed on, but given my very recent accident, you're right on. Congratulations, you're re-hired."

Demetri Martin -- 1776
(Probably wasn't 1742, but I once thought about that year, and it's a pivotal one. It was actually probably more like 2006.)

Yeah, Bill was calling those people at the Town hall meetings Nazis. Man, he is out of touch, ohh wait. Wasn't that Nancy Pelosi? Talking about the people she represents. The people she works for and the people who pay for her Salary.

Yeah, and my was at a hack of a Representative.... It saddens me every time I think of her leading the House. She did the equivalent of O'Reilly calling Fox a bunch of Nazis. The ironic thing is.... she'll probably keep her job, I doubt Bill would be so lucky.

"""
The Jackson Citizen Patriot is reporting Jackson County Commissioner Phil Duckham attended the rally carrying "a sign with a swastika on it, and compared Obama to Hitler". They also have a photo of him doing so.

"This is how Hitler started out," Duckham said. "First, Obama took over the auto industry, then the banking industry. We don't need him to take over the health care industry."
"""

So now your comparing a Jackson County Commissioner to the Speaker of the House in their usage of the term Nazi?

Seems Jackon County is quite the political center of the universe.

And while he was using that verbage to classify Obama, Pelosi was using as the statement on the American people who disagreed with her self-righteousness. How dear you disagree with me, the Speaker of the House. Your all Nazis!

"So now your comparing a Jackson County Commissioner to the Speaker of the House in their usage of the term Nazi?"

No, I was pointing at many, many of the town hall protesters, of which the Jackson County Commissioner, a political official, is one example of many.

Though if you would kindly provide a link to an article that claims Pelosi called those she represents - the voters of California in her district and NOT loony right wingers in other states - Nazis, I'd be happy to read it.

Ohh so, it's ok to call people in other states bad names, so if Claire McCaskill called the voters of California Nazis it would be fine. McCaskill is the representative from my state and I would find it offending, and no doubt, vote against her. This isn't even as bad as the above example because while Claire is a representative she isn't the Speaker of the House, who represents the nation, and is right behind Biden in the line of succession

"It is well known, at least in the circles I frequent, when a Liberal is losing a discussion they start on the "your racist, your sexist, etc.." tract."

It is unfortunate that the liberal counterpart to the conservatives' "you hate America! Socialist! Watch me yell louder than you!" vocal idiot does resemble what you describe. So you're correct on that point, but your side still doesn't maintain the high road.

"Failing that, they resort to using Nazi verbage as Pelosi so eloquently did."

See also: the town hall protesters Ive described. Your side has no room to point fingers here.

"Voting against Sotomayer was "racist" .."

No, many of the things said and used against her during the confirmation were. A simple vote wasn't necessarily.

"However people fail to see Colin Powell in the position he had. But no, he was an "Uncle Tom". Or fail to see Bob Martinez as Bush's pick for a top post as the antithesis of this."

Here's a little funny video. A cute little girl asks a question of Mr. Obama at a town hall meeting. Later we find out that the girls mother, Kathleen Manning Hall, help during the Obama campaign and was a large donor. Plant or not? I'll let you decide. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOZuvQ-3uvY

Oh how little you know about me. I dislike both parties. I think they both look out for number one, the only reason I would lean more Republican is because they are generally more Conservative. That, however, was hardly true during the Bush presidency. I'm quite upset with both of them, if a third party candidate actually had a decent backing I would throw him or her my full support. I hate party politics. The reason I hate the Democrats so much right now is because they are the ones in power screwing things up, not the Republicans.

Ok, LB, I'm not prideful enough to say what she said was factually correct to an extent. But, I am kindof disappointed in how she grouped all the people into one group. Calling the whole backing "astro-turf." It's been a common tactic on both sides in the media, pull out the crazy on both sides. Maybe it's because she's the Speaker of the House that I hold her to a higher standard.

so, just to clarify. they asked about if she thought there was a real grassroots movement, to which she replied, they're astroturf. i took that to mean that she doesn't think it is a real grassroots movement but an artificial one. is that how others are reading that?

LB, it really doesn't matter what the right does, the bill is going to pass if Obama wants it to pass. 60 Senators, and 256 Representatives are plenty enough to pass it. The reason for these town hall meetings is for him to gain support as his approval rating plummets. He realizes that if he simply just pushes this through, Democrats stand a good chance of losing a lot of elections in 2010, something that was inconceivable six months ago.

"LB, it really doesn't matter what the right does, the bill is going to pass if Obama wants it to pass. 60 Senators,"

The bill as Obama, myself, and other Liberals wanted it never had the support of all 60 Democrats in the Senate. Ever hear of the Blue Dogs? In order to pass - which you're right, it will - it has been watered down so grotesquely that we're getting pretty much NOTHING that we wanted out of it in the first place. What we'll end up with is another useless protection bill for the insurance industry, and the sad part is that much of that is Obama's own fault.

You know that all bills are still draft bills right? Most blue dog democrats are against the main H.R. 3200. There are many other draft bills and what I mean was that Obama would push through some sort of health care bill, and if he forces it through too hard, it will cause him some problems..

Yes, of course it's not final yet. My point was that our hope of real reform is gone, thanks to those politicians on both sides who decided to vote for who pays most to their campaign funds and not for their constituents. It will pass, but it will be crap, unless a miracle happens.

The Dems are doing these town halls hoping for a miracle, not to inflate approval ratings.

Well, what kindof of poll do you want? 53% now completely oppose Congressional reform. I'm sure a lot more would oppose a single payer plan. I mean, I'm not crazy enough to think that reform isn't needed, I'm one of the 47% liberal ones.

I just spent 40 minutes looking for the article on the issue that I read a few days ago, but it's gone.

It raised a good point about those people who claim to be satisfied with their insurance: have they ever had an emergency where they needed it? Insurance is something you can't tell you're satisfied with or not until you're in a position where you need prompt medical attention. If someone who is satisfied today is denied my their insurer tomorrow when they learn they have cancer, are they still satisfied with the coverage?

Either way, I'm not satisfied with no coverage. Thats why I voted for the guy who wants a public option.

So you want me to pay for you to have medical coverage? Where in the constitution is it stated medical care is a right?

There are many places you can get medical care and there is something called EMTALA. Ever hear of it? It states that you can go to ANY ER and get the same treatment as anyone with the best insurance. The ER cannot send you away until they have diagnosed the problem and treated it.

If you hate the current system so much, I hear Canada is very nice in the summer. And they are accepting applications for citizenship.

But what about tort reform? Nobody has touched that. And for me, going through a malpractice case where I did nothing wrong, it is a subject that has to be dealt with if reform of any kind occurs.

I would prefer a single payer system where the underclass isn't left out. That means we all pay for each other's health care, not you pay for mine.

"Where in the constitution is it stated medical care is a right?"

Where in the constitution is it stated you have a right to low taxes?

"If you hate the current system so much, I hear Canada is very nice in the summer."

Ah yes, the old "if you don't like America then you can geeet ouuuuut!!" defense. It absolutely HAS to be said with a deep southern yokel accent or you just don't get the full effect. It's the battle cry of uneducated conservatives that think "the American way" equates to THEIR way, and everyone with a differing opinion has no right to call this nation home.

Well to answer your question: I'd rather stay here and vote against people like you.

But why not take your own advice? I hear Saudi Arabia is rather conservative. You might consider moving out that way if our side gets another four years.

"That means we all pay for each other's health care, not you pay for mine. "

But if you're already not paying for your own, how can you all be paying for each other's...?

Let's face it, the word we're looking for here is handout. It's a painful word for some and a much-wanted word for others, but that's what it is - if you're not paying for your healthcare and the gov't gives it to you, it was handed out, and what Ranger is concerned about is that it gets handed out on the funds from his and others' wallets.

Medicare and social security are already in the hole 100T. And we want to entrust MORE powers to the Federal government? Once it shows that it can run a restaurant without running up massive debts (heh, reminds me of that one scene in Goodfellas, where they get a restaurant, run up large debts, then burn it down), I might be slightly more open to the idea.

That is yet another reason not to trust the government to run something so large as healthcare.

However we have a large proportion of the United States that feels some sort of entitlement. And refuse to make sacrifices in order to be successful.

I personally lived in a rathole of an apartment for 8 years during college and med school. Then a slightly better rathole during residency. Never wanted anything from the government other than to be safe.

Seems people would like to press the Easy button and not have to work for things.

My good ol' Mac, Little White, just died. Dead PSU (twice), hard drive failure, logic board capacitor collapse, and tons of upgrades to the OS over the years. Tonight, it would not start. I think it is the logic board again, and that will cost hundreds to fix (because I don't think I can do that myself, like I did the second PSU change). And anyway, it will just eventually cook itself again. Never saw five years.

I am very glad Apple switched to Intel chips, that newer iMac runs like a champ, cool as a cucumber. Never disregard heat production. Heat kills.

Godspeed, iMac G5 with the last of the PowerPC architecture for Apple machines! GODSPEED!

OH MY GOD! This cat has nine loves. So I go in there, it was lying flat, back open, the whole thing is HOT!!!! Won't boot up, yet apparently is running all the juice possible through the logic board. I unplug it, certain I have put the last nail into Rasputin.

I fiddle with the fan cords, one seems _slightly_ loose. Plug it in again, fire it up, BAM. All LEDs on, and the good ole Apple "bong" through the speakers. Led 4, the dreaded overheat LED momentarily lights red as blood, but then goes out.

This is the off-topic forum. For debates, please see here, where, conveniently enough, you will surely notice a thread with a very similar discussion to the one that has taken over this thread going on. ;)

Good. I'll take that as a free "get the last word" card and explain the post and why your response to it, Ranger, was unfortunate.

I posted the original post in parody. Parody. Not even of _you_ but of the Adrian Rogers quote. On the 5-word thread, you didn't support your quote, you didn't say why you liked it or thought it was the best ever, and you didn't address the fact that the quote was incorrectly dated (mis-attributed). That's important. On the internet, all we have is bunch of references flying around, and when a grown man, a physician, no less, can't even properly dispense facts, well, that's disappointing. Do you think facts are unimportant? That it is only the rhetoric that matters?

Furthermore, Adrian Rogers is not someone, as far as I can tell, that you would ever really respect or admire. He sounds like an ultra-ultra-conservative, and has made unfortunate remarks about slavery. In other words (again, because you won't discuss it), I can only assume you picked out the quote completely on its own merits, no knowledge of the source, and without any context whatsoever.

If I went and picked out some liberal viewpoint, something I totally agreed with, but that was attributed to a left-wing extremist, you would have commented. I believe that. Lord Bob has already pointed out your hypocrisy in the way you tell others to discuss topics when you yourself regularly use straw-man arguments, false dichotomies, and bluster to plow your way through other's differing opinions. You don't care about common ground, and you don't care about learning.

So, I went with humor. Quote responding to quote. Believe it or not, it _wasn't_ _about_ _you_. I quoted a joke, from a comic I greatly respect, and admire, and added my own humor in regards to chronological attribution (but at least got it in the ballpark). Again, nothing to do with you. I was jabbing fun at Adrian Rogers, if anything. Poor taste, I suppose, considering he's expired, but oh well. No one has ever accused me of being overly tasteful.

I'm summary, I apologize if your feelings were hurt by me making my post. But in the same breath, I will have to admit I am not apologizing for the act itself, because that had nothing to do with you, and was humorous, to boot (as the first several posts on the thread bear out as we discussed some comics we like).