SURVIVOR OR STORYTELLER?

I was sent an article last night, written by a journalist, and which no doubt, will send certain members of the Twitterati into meltdown and cause the #paedobritain stalwarts to develop noticeable facial tics – such will be their indignation that anyone had dared to question the #ibelievenick manta that has been somewhat prominent on social media accounts and various blogs.

It asks pertinent questions of not only a prominent CSA ‘Survivor’, but also of his mentors, the shadowy Fleet Street media outfit known as Exaro News.

I am not entirely sure if it has been published elsewhere, but I am certain that nobody in the ‘Alternative Media’ or the Truth Movement will dare to publish it, as it may force them to reassess their views and maybe even deviate from the herd mentality that supports them and exists throughout the AM at the current time – and thus offer an alternative to the usual ‘Troofer’ narrative, and also run the risk of losing many of their followers in the process.

I have no such reservations, however, as after almost three years of publishing the Outlaw, I rest assured that the majority of those who visit and read the articles on this site, are open-minded and intelligent, and will examine everything with a critical eye, nor are they easily swayed by the baying mainstream mobs and the many evangelical tub thumpers that exist online.

I do not agree with everything in the article, but in the interests of balance I have published it here, as it does raise some important questions of certain people, and examines in depth, the possibility, that things may not be as they appear in the media and elsewhere online, and may even be of interest to those who are not obsessively following every twist and turn of this ongoing saga.

Survivor or Storyteller? – Nick vs. British History

Bernie Najarian

I heard a story once, about a teenager who had registered on a legal pedophile board website and made friends among the members.

The people who befriended him weren’t fools; they knew that such purported teens were, as often as not, fake. Over time, though, online friendships grew. The speed of their growth was probably accelerated because the teen had issues – he had panics, dramas, depressions, urgent questions. He needed help. The kindest boylover who ever was (TKBLWEW) got involved counselling him against his depressions and fears. Then the teen stopped posting. A message appeared from one of his friends saying that he’d committed suicide. TKBLWEW was heartsick. So much love and energy poured into that infinitely valuable developing youth – and now this.

You can imagine how he felt a year later, then, when the same poster reappeared on the board, apologized for faking his suicide, and admitted he was many years older than he’d stated, though still a callow youth.

In doing this, this young man in his mid-20s joined the populous ranks of society’s Munchausens, people who display false afflictions and sufferings for public sympathy or for the sympathy of authority figures (doctors, officials, etc.). Although the term Munchausen Syndrome was first coined to describe people who fake dramatic medical conditions, the same dynamic is clearly at work in people who proclaim other sorts of false sufferings.

The fake suicide boy joined such luminaries as the fictional abused 14-year-old boy author Anthony Godby Johnson, who actually was the 40-something Joanne Vicki Fraginals, and the dozens of people who claimed to having seen or suffered Satanic ritual sexual abuse, before these claims were painstakingly shown to be completely fictitious, sometimes after innocent day care owners and others had been wrongly imprisoned for years.

Child sexual abuse is a common theme in Munchausen stories. For example, in the listverse.com list of ‘Ten bizarre hoaxes involving nonexistent people’, the top-ranking hoax is the story of former transgendered 12-year-old prostitute J.T. LeRoy, who turned out to be the fictional creation of a 35-year-old woman called Laura Albert. Albert, despite having no experiences parallel to those of her creation, justified the fraud, after being caught, by saying “For me it was created the way an oyster creates a pearl: out of irritation and suffering. It was an attempt to try to heal something. And it actually worked.”

One thing online people learn, sooner or later, is that you have to watch out for the storytellers.

Oh, yes. Do watch out for those storytellers.

You could say that they’re seeking attention, but as a professional reporter, I can tell you that I am also seeking attention, in a way. I love it when you read my story. They are doing something much deeper than that – something that I and my fact-exposing ilk are not attempting to do. They are trying to produce a catharsis. They role-play, confronting death and the evils of the world on the level of a heartfelt fantasy, while many others, their audience, sympathetically hold on to their hands.

Here’s how I think this deception works: We all die sometime; we all sometimes live in pain. So does anyone we love and identify with. These realities, forming the backdrop for the ordinary pains of our lives, make us angry; they make us bereft; they say that love is temporary and often false. However lovely love may feel, it is disposable, and so, therefore, is respect. We don’t owe the truth to any of those who sympathize with our stories, even when we cling to their sympathy. The story of our pain, even when it is expressed in completely imaginary scenarios, is more real than their reality.

The incredible power of storytelling is at its most visible today in Great Britain. The 20th century history of the country is perhaps about to be fundamentally changed by a tale.

The conventional view is that Britain has been ruled by people who are mostly sober and occasionally efficient. Whether populist left or hard-nosed right, they have been true public servants. Of course, as such, they have been prone to the standard range of scandals about love affairs and expense claims, but a few bad apples don’t spoil the whole barrel – and should they seem to, you can elect a new, fresh barrel of clean apples.

The alternative view that has now presented itself is that the British governments in the late 20th century, right and left, were all one seething barrel of rot. They consisted of a conspiratorial cabal of child murderers and rapists, or accessories to those crimes. These evil men and women used secret service spies, police and border officials to abet their lives of constant sadistic self-indulgence. The rule of law was a hoax. No child was safe. In a historic period where we thought Margaret Thatcher acted as a prissy Augustus Caesar, throwing back unions and Argentines and communists from the borders of democratic capitalism, we had instead a British Nero, ruling an empire whose limitless, bloody debaucheries would have been forever covered up – if not for one man

The name of this man is ‘Nick.’ This is the man who hopes to rewrite the history of the United Kingdom with his stories.

‘Nick’ came forward in late 2014 to an up-and-coming journalistic endeavor by the name of Exaro News. Exaro, slogan ‘Holding Power to Account,’ was a 2011 startup, owned by wealthy London banker Jerome Booth and managed in-house by investigative reporter Mark Watts. It was best known in its early years for exposing multi-billionaire Rupert Murdoch’s involvement in bribery of public officials by news tabloids in the UK. It had also, however, sponsored a prominent series of investigations about alleged sexual abuse of young people at a hotel called the Elm Guest House in the late 1970s and early 80s.

After the Elm Guest House stories came out, Nick came forward to Exaro News and began to tell his own story, which he stated he’d suppressed for 30 years out of fear. His unique trust in Exaro was such that he insisted on having an Exaro staffer with him when he first reported his complaints to the police.

These complaints can be found online in two forms, an official press form and a personal form. The latter is found in Nick’s alternatively-pseudonymed Twitter account (@carl_survivor) and wordpress blog. Although the blog was recently restricted to friends only, it was long open and formed a prominent part of the ongoing ‘abuse survivors’ social movement in the UK. Nick was extensively tied in to the network of people responding as victims to the Jimmy Savile allegations, Operation Yewtree, and so on – the movement that some online skeptics have referred to as ‘Operation Compensation’ because of the large amounts of money some complainants have collected.

There are, however, many complainants who are not eligible for any monetary reward for their exposure.

As an accuser of sexual abuse, Nick is entitled, under British law, to anonymity, but he may also waive this protection. As blogger Richard Bartholomew pointed out on Aug. 7 of this year, Nick has openly cross-linked himself to his alternative pseudonym, ‘Carl Survivor,’ under which extensive first-person accounts of his allegations have been published. The unique facts linking Nick’s allegations, made via Exaro and other news outlets, and the oeuvre of Carl Survivor, are as follows: the person claims to be a witness to three murders of young boys by a cabal of sexual abusers including many high officials; and, he was abused from ages 7-16, 30 yrs ago. Although Carl, when challenged by barrister Barbara Hewson on Twitter, did not openly admit to being Nick, his prominent featuring of correlated data breaks all the rules of internet anonymity – and he otherwise seems to be good at anonymity. Ergo, one infers that the Nick – Carl link is not intended to be a secret, but rather is merely a relatively discreet, acknowledged link.

Here’s a press version of Nick’s allegations against former Conservative Member of Parliament Harvey Proctor. This is from news.com.au, Aug. 27.

“Former Conservative MP Harvey Proctor vehemently denied horrific allegations of rape, torture, sexual abuse and murder made against him by a man known only as “Nick” that are said to have taken place between 1978 and 1984.

“I am completely innocent of all these allegations. I am a homosexual, I am not a murderer. I am not a paedophile,” he told reporters in a luxury London hotel.”

The extraordinary offensive is the first time details of the alleged abuse have been made public. Mr Proctor warned “anyone of a delicate or nervous disposition should leave the room” before listing the nine allegations made against him.

They include tying a young boy to a table and stabbing him with a knife before raping and strangling him in front of Nick. He was accused of sexually abusing Nick on multiple occasions and threatening to cut off his genitalia with a pen knife. Nick also claims to have witnessed a friend being run down and killed by a car and said Mr Proctor was in the group responsible.

“They amount to just about the worst allegations anyone can make against another person including as they do, multiple murder of children, their torture, grievous bodily harm, rape and sexual child abuse,” Mr Proctor said.
“I denied all and each of the allegations in turn and in detail and categorised that as false and untrue.”

I’ll add in one more detail from the Daily Mail.

“One grim accusation is that Proctor threatened to cut off Nick’s testicles with a penknife, only to be stopped from doing so by (former British Prime Minister) Edward Heath. Nick has since produced what he says is the offending penknife and handed it to detectives.”

Now, here are parts of the stories as told, without direct accusation against individuals, on the Carl Survivor blog. Ordinarily, I would simply link to the original text, but with this long-open blog having recently been set to private, I feel obliged to quote selected portions so that members of public are able to know the nature of the actual stories that have had such a strong influence on public affairs today:

“I need to go back over 30 years. I spent 9 years at the hands of a paedophile ring that had absolutely no fear of being caught. But how do I know that they had no fear? Well, their actions pretty much spoke for themselves. Some of the men openly told me their names, some their professions, I was taken openly to various locations to be abused, no attempt was made to muffle our cries or screams. I was even taken abroad through a major airport with no questions or passport. Then there were the threats, the threat that me and others could simply disappear and not only would no one question it but they would not care either. On top of all this I and others experienced first-hand what these men were capable of. I would be punished in the most brutal way imaginable, my friends were killed and all done without hesitation or remorse. From what I have learnt about human nature since becoming an adult, you just don’t do these things unless you’re sure of the people you are with and the protection that you have.”

“So I think that it is OK that I don’t understand their actions and I wonder if they understand what they did themselves, although they must have done. It takes a considerable amount of thought and action (for someone) to hold my head underwater so I can’t breathe, or to burn me or even to rape me. So how did they rationalize it to themselves? How does a grown man think that raping me, boys, children was OK? How can a man inflict unimaginable pain on me and others and live with our screams in their head? How can a man kill my friend and look at themselves in the mirror as though it was the most normal thing in the world? How can a man do those things to another human being let alone a child?”

“This is the continuation from my blog ‘How it all started’. I was 7 years old and had already suffered physically and sexually at the hands of my father. Now however, I was going to be introduced to the group, something I think that was always his intention. I never saw him as happy as when they seemed to like and accept me into the group. I was in, which meant he was too. I don’t remember anything unusual about the day, except I suppose for the fact he was being nice to me. I should have suspected something was wrong. I had to wear my school uniform even though I was not going to be going to school that day. Instead I was going to my father’s work. I remember as though it was yesterday him telling me to do exactly as I was told and to not say a word. I don’t remember feeling scared or anything, but I was confused that he was being nice.

I was taken into this office and there was another man there waiting, he seemed to know my father. I remember they talked for a bit, but this other man never stopped looking at me, and I think it made me nervous. The man came over and said hello and even shook my hand and he told my father to leave. It was just me and him and I had to stand before him. He started touching my hair and face and then all over my body. He kept saying how beautiful I was and that I was a good boy. I do remember it was quite nice to hear that I was a good boy. He started to undress me and then do some of the things my father did. Despite all that I had been through already with my father, I don’t think I expected it to come from a stranger, I just assumed it’s what fathers did.

This man only kissed and touched me and didn’t hurt me like my father but I was still glad when it was over. When my father came back, they talked again which is when I saw how happy he was. On the way back home, he even told me I had done really well. I don’t think this really registered, although it did add to the confusion that small boy felt. How could he be so nasty one minute and nice the next, why did it make him happy when another man liked me like that, was this all normal? It didn’t feel normal, or it might have been I didn’t want it to feel normal, but it was happening nevertheless.

It wasn’t long after that first meeting that I was taken to this house, I was ushered into the back room, and that man was there again together with two others. He was pleased to see me and again my father left me there. I was told to undress and do various things in front of them. One of them was taking pictures. I didn’t feel right to be standing there naked in front of these three men, but they seemed pleased, which I didn’t quite know why. The man the office, told everyone to leave. He started kissing and touching me again, but this time made me do things to him as well. At the end he held me down on the carpet and raped me. He was the same as my father but unlike him he was saying all these nice things to me as he was hurting me. I still didn’t understand what was happening to me, except it was hurting and I didn’t like it. My face was wet with tears as I was pushed into the carpet.”

“For the last four months, it has been such a non-stop roller coaster of emotions, and to be honest I am really not sure what I am feeling at the moment. It feels like I am living my two lives again. My functioning life, working, looking after the family, looking after the house. I have to do all of these, no one is going to do it for me. But in my quiet moments and at night I am pretty much a mess. I am empty, the wounds that I have carried since I was a child have split wide open and I am sure getting bigger by the day.

The abuse I can cope with well now, my counselling has helped me come to terms with that. But dealing with the deaths of my friends is a whole different issue and one that I am struggling with. I have written before about the blame and guilt I have over their deaths, and I read all the lovely comments from people about it not being my fault, but I just can’t accept it. Over the past four months I have relived their deaths over and over again. Every single night they return to show how I let them down, how I didn’t do everything I could to save them. During the day, when I have a quiet period, my thoughts turn to those times replaying them over and over again wondering what I could have done differently with different outcomes for them. I think it makes it worse that at the moment I can’t talk about their deaths with my counsellor, I have to be careful what I say about it here, and I have no one to talk to each and every day, the thoughts, the demons are my own to keep…”

Carl has written extensive amounts of poetry, something he says his therapist advised him to do. I’ve edited the text for typos.

I’ve just found out the identity of one of my friendsSo many years of wondering could be at an endBut dealing with it has taken its tollA big deal for me, I’m no longer wholeI miss him so very muchHaving his warmth, feeling his touchHe was a lot braver than I will ever beHis courage was there for me to seeI hear he has got family aliveWill they hate me that I survivedThe guilt overwhelming, eating awayPart of me died that terrible dayI want to shout, honour his nameBut how can I when I was to blame.I think about you every single dayYou’re always in my heart, forever to stay”

Some earlier text partly explains this poem:

‘XX (the friend in the poem – BN) died because of me. I was warned by the group and I took no notice. People tell me that at that age I would have had no idea what the consequences would be then, and that is probably true. However, I knew what they were capable of, I experienced what they were capable of and at the end of the day, I did not do as I was told and because of that my friend died. I knew the rules, you had to do as you were told, without question. So why didn’t I do it then? If I had, he would be alive today, but because I was selfish they took him from me. With the other two it was different but I was still to blame. I cannot publish the details here, but I was not strong enough to help my second friend, I tried so hard but I failed. My third friend died because I kept quiet when I should have spoken up. I had an opportunity to put myself forward, but I was too scared and because of my silence, he died.’

A police document read out by Harvey Proctor at an Aug. 25 press conference fills in the missing details:

‘1980 – at a residential house in central London. “Nick” was driven by car to an address in the Pimlico/Belgravia area where a second boy (the victim) was also collected in the same vehicle. Both boys, aged approximately 12-years-old, were driven to another similar central London address. Mr. Proctor was present with another male. Both boys were led to the back of the house. Mr. Proctor then stripped the victim, and tied him to a table. He then produced a large kitchen knife and stabbed the child through the arm and other parts of the body over a period of 40 minutes. A short time later Mr. Proctor untied the victim and anally raped him on the table. The other male stripped “Nick” and anally raped him over the table. Mr. Proctor then strangled the victim with his hands until the boy’s body went limp. Both males then left the room. Later, Mr. Proctor returned and led “Nick” out of the house and into a waiting car.’

‘1981-82 – at a residential address in central London. “Nick” was collected from Kingston train station and taken to a “party” at a residential address. The witness was among four young boys. Several men were present including Mr. Proctor. One of the men told the boys one of them would die that night and they had to choose who. When the boys wouldn’t decide, the men selected one of the boys (the victim). Each of the four boys including “Nick” were taken to separate rooms for “private time”. When they all returned to the same room, Nick was anally raped by Mr. Proctor and another male as “punishment”. The other males also anally raped the remaining boys. Mr. Proctor and two other males then began beating the chosen victim by punching and kicking. The attack continued until the boy collapsed on the floor and stopped moving. All of the men left the room. The remaining boys attempted to revive the victim but he was not breathing. They were left for some time before being taken out of the house and returned to their homes.’

‘Between May and July 1979 – in a street in Coombe Hill, Kingston. Nick was walking in this area with another boy (the victim) when he heard the sound of a car engine revving. A dark-coloured car drove into the victim knocking him down. “Nick” could see the boy covered in blood and his leg bent backwards. A car pulled up and “Nick” was grabbed and placed in the car. He felt a sharp pain in his arm and next remembered being dropped off at home. He was warned not to have friends in future. “Nick” never saw the other boy again. “Nick” does not identify Mr. Proctor as being directly involved in this allegation. However, he states Mr. Proctor was part of the group responsible for the systematic sexual abuse he suffered. Furthermore, he believes the group were responsible for the homicide.’

‘There have been months of stories in the U.K. press about organized abuse in the ’70s and ’80s at the Elm Guest House and also at apartments in an area called Dolphin Square, where many prominent political types had their London addresses. Connections have been made not just to politicians and entertainers, but also to the British secret service, especially since a long-dead MI6 secret service agent named Peter Hayman was shown to have been a part of the Paedophile Information Exchange political/social group. A former Head of the MI6, the late Maurice Oldfield, is alleged by Nick to be part of the gang that abused him. The involvement of secret service agents is important to the story, since it seems to make every illegal action possible.

From Proctor’s Aug. 25 press release:’

The “gang” is also alleged to have included Lord Janner(a former Labour M.P.),Lord Bramall(Former Chief of the General Staff), the late Maurice Oldfield(Former Head of Secret Intelligence Service – MI6), the late Sir Michael Hanley (Director General of the Internal Security Service – MI5), General Sir Hugh Beach(Master-General of the Ordnance) and a bloke named Ray Beech.

Members of Parliament, starting with the notoriously homophobic, evangelical maverick Geoffrey Dickens in the 1990s and continuing with Tom Watson, Simon Danczuk, Sarah Champion and others to the present day, have actively sought and collected evidence of pedosexual improprieties by members of the governing elite. While some establishment members have been successfully convicted or posthumously implicated, a prominent cluster of allegations is almost entirely dependent on Nick’s say-so.

Nick’s evidence is far more dramatic even than that given against posthumously alleged boy-spanker and physical assaulter Member of Parliament Cyril Smith, because of the murders Nick claims to have witnessed. The allegation that a notoriously shy, seemingly asexual Prime Minister, Edward Heath, was secretly involved in a child sex-murder gang, is one of the most drastically counterintuitive historical revisions ever proposed. The mainstream Daily Mirror newstabloid, independently of Nick, has also gone so far as to state that “we can reveal that Heath was present at more than half a dozen Westminster meetings of the notorious Paedophile Information Exchange.” No evidence has been presented, so far, for this astonishing idea – astonishing to anyone who knows the sort of people who dared to sneak discreetly to gay meetings during the period the P.I.E. was in existence, 1974-84. The idea of a top Conservative politico showing up at a gathering of the most controversial deviants in existence – effectively committing political suicide if even one person talked about it to anyone they knew – is completely preposterous.

So far, the only objective evidence that has been revealed to back up Nick’s claims is the penknife that Nick has given to police, with the claim that it was the one used when Harvey Proctor threatened him with castration.

Nick has nonetheless been rated by police as ‘credible and true.’ As Proctor and many other people have pointed out, this statement is unprofessionally prejudicial, but one can readily see its raison d’être. Carl, in his blog, often serves as a peacemaker amongst the warring factions of the political abuse victim movement, and even quotes Mahatma Gandhi.

This quote seems appropriate for this blog. From Mahatma Gandhi:
‘Keep your thoughts positive, because your thoughts become your word

Keep your words positive, because your words become your behaviour
Keep your behaviour positive, because your behaviour becomes your habits
Keep your habits positive, because your habits become your values
Keep your values positive, because your values become your destiny
So let’s each of us see if we can use unity over division, tolerance over intolerance, understanding over aggression and support over distress.’

He appears to be a member of the professional class who says things like

“I know some people will not accept that everything is not in the public domain, but having led independent reviews in my own line of work, I understand that somethings have to remain confidential, but it is right and proper that they put as much as they can in the public domain.”

“I would like to thank you for inviting me to speak at your conference. I have presented at other conferences as part of my job, but this is the first time that I have spoken to publically about something so personal.”

Nick/Carl also serves as a poster boy for the need for abused children to tell their stories, and is constantly referenced by Susan G. Crocombe (@shinybluedress) and other prominent campaigners who stress this theme.

Police, looking for corroboration of stories of abuse by VIPs, were under strong political pressure to state that, unlike in the bad old days, they would not disbelieve and dismiss those coming forward. To call Nick ‘credible and true’ was a bright, flashy fishing lure that also pleased the political victim movement. If police had been punctiliously accurate about the presumption of innocence, they could better have said Nick was ‘credible and verisimilitudinous’ – my guess at their actual meaning – but neither they nor most of their intended audience would have the vocabulary for such a statement.

The ‘credible and true’ prejudgement enraged Proctor, and has fuelled such a powerful backlash that even prominent media VIP abuse witchfinders like ex-cop-turned investigative journalist Mark Williams-Thomas have expressed disbelief about Nick and his stories.

Everything hangs on whether or not Nick/Carl is the J.T. LeRoy of VIP abuse. If his accounts are true, he has been subjected to terrible crimes, and has witnessed many more. Insofar as it is possible, given the 30-year time lag, everyone involved in inflicting these horrific tortures and murders should be prosecuted with the same vigor and persistence employed to track down war criminals from the World War II death camps. This is all the more imperative if they were public officials who were protected by corrupted political powers.

If Nick’s stories are false, then he is perhaps the most daring Munchausen ever to have twisted the public’s emotions with his storytelling. Now that he has become active, Nick is by no means a shadow-figure. He’s a prominent go-getter, a major leader in the victim movement. His Carl alter-ego is busy organizing a national display of mementos collected by people who claim to be ‘victims and survivors’ of sexual abuse.

It had three showings booked, starting in January 2016, as of the time Carl’s blog went into private status.

You can send your submissions to me via facebook, email or twitter.http://www.facebook.com/ravscaravsca@hush.com@carl_survivor

What can I send in to represent me in the exhibition?

Anything. So far people have sent in a variety of photographs (of animals, favourite places, things that mean something to the individual, pictures of them as an adult, pictures of them as a child), poems, drawings we have even had a song submitted. Most people choose to send in a photograph of some sort. However, even if you can’t think of anything and still want to take part, let me know and we can always get a picture for you.

How can I help?

If you want to physically help, I ask you to get in touch with Mike Pierce at the Southmead Project so that we can co-ordinate offers of help. However, you can also help by donating money to the project, and the biggest help is spreading the word about the exhibition so as many survivors have the opportunity to take part as possible.

The range of phenomena people can swear they have personally witnessed is amazing.

The Valais Witch Trials that occurred in what is now western Switzerland between 1428 and 1447 included personal eyewitness testimonies and confessions to the following events:

Flying: to have anointed chairs, then gone flying through the air and engaged in plundering wine cellars.Lycanthropy: to have killed cattle in the shapes of werewolves.Invisibility: to have made themselves invisible with herbs.Healing: To have cured sickness and paralysis caused by sorcery by giving it to someone else.Cannibalism: to have abducted and eaten children.Curses.Satanism: To have met and learned magic from Satan.Conspiracy: to have planned depriving Christianity of its power over humanity.’

Note that the abduction and murder of children is prominent in the list. Whether we look at the early 20th-century Protocols of the Elders of Zion or at modern Satanic abuse fictions, like those concocted about the community of Hampstead by angry divorcée Ella Draper, the murder of children by evil forces is a lynchpin of malicious public Munchausenhood. When you add together a small catalyst of Munchausens with a large group of supportive Moralists, then you have the necessary ingredients of a witch-hunt.

Storytellers + Moralists = Witch-hunt.

The entire future of Britain, including its ability to tell its own story truthfully, hangs on whether Nick is Carl Survivor or Carl Storyteller. This question in turn hangs upon whether British judges and police can correctly discern which of these possible Carl’s is the real one. They are in one hell of a situation – actual evidence or even corroborative detail from such long-ago cases, especially those involving transient factors like sexual acts and unreported injuries, is almost impossible to find. Most of the alleged participants they could interview are dead; a few more are considered to be senile.

Police have a single item of evidence – a penknife which they can contemplate, and not much else.

Along with whatever else they collect, they should study ‘credible and true’-seeming stories like those of Anthony Godby Johnson and J.T. LeRoy carefully before they make any decisions.

81 Comments

jenniejenSeptember 4, 2015

How deep does this rabbit hole go?

I didn’t know all of that.

Though, it does puzzle me how no genuine charity or campaign has not spoken to Shinybluedress or Carl about their triggering posts. Carl post bondage pics of kids to go with his poems. It’s not right. Even if it is from a survivor himself. It’s wank fodder, is what it is. It upsets me.

The same thing with Shiny and her post, like, Remember what you did with your dolls.

No love, actually I do my best not to remember, until you trigger me. Go get some training if you really want to help.

This is going to sound so fanspeak, please overlook it for the quality of the writing! This one really touched a nerve and got me rethinking some rather uncomfortable internet experiences! Just helped me look at it more like a jigsaw puzzle than chess game. Sorry, rambling thanks for hanging in there through all the b.s. It’s nice in this messy world to have your voice!

BETTER READ THIS VERY CAREFULLY, ESPECIALLY – AT THE MOMENT – AMERICANS.

“Advertised as a national vaccination effort, the program involved the lacing of anti-tetanus toxoids with a sterilizing chemical known as HCG. Thousands of Filipino women between the ages of 15 and 45 were inoculated by the tainted vaccines. Only through the efforts of Catholic church organizations was the tainted vaccine brought to public attention”:-

“Even if it is from a survivor himself. It’s wank fodder, is what it is”

That’s my opinion too Jenniejen. That’s why I never watch the videos or read too much of the text in these matters. Even the above was rather stomach turning as I skimmed. There are though, evil human beings. I was listening to Jeremy Vine this week and he had Max Mosley on. Max was contemplating that all humans have a fairly evil side. I don’t know too much about Max but he came over the radio as being sincere and what he said made sense. Having said that, one never really knows till one looks them in the eye and, even then, it is easy to make mistakes.

Watching and reading about this sort of stuff will surely, if continously over time, have an effect on the watcher. It is common sense. Look at, for example, Bill Bryson. He wrote a book about following the Manchester United mob; at the beginning from a journalistic overview, but at the conclusion he realised he was beginning to enjoy the fighting and violence. I have seen the same with other “journalists”.

I was not aware that Spivey was ‘out of the ring,’ according to his supporters he is bigger and better than ever, although as I tend to avoid venturing over there unless absolutely necessary I now rely on what others tell me.

What ‘Punches’ am I making that are you referring to? Pray tell.

By the way, suspicion is healthy, it’s wilful blindness and a refusal to acknowledge what everybody else is acutely aware of, is what you should be concerned about.

Exaro only started up a short while before the Jimmy Savile exposure with Mark Williams Thomas. And like the Needle blog to use one example, suddenly switched from posting boring European centric politics and financial crap to exclusively concentrating on child sexual abuse. I wonder what will happen to Esther Baker and ‘Darren’ now that naughty ‘Nick’ may have been spinning a bit of a yarn after all the fuss he has caused? Their tales backed him up didn’t they? Esther has also testified that she too was taken to Dolphin Square where she was also allegedly abused along with Nick and Darren. What if no evidence is found to corroborate their stories either? Where does that leave Exaro? Will Harvey Proctor sue them as well as the accusers for defamation and loss of income? Will Edward Heath’s and Leon Brittans estates launch a joint legal action to exonerate them and bring their accusers to heel? I know I would if it was my dad or my late husband who was being falsely accused. I think lots of people are worrying about their roles in perpetuating these stories too, like @Discovery77 and @Sweetcheeks and @Reeves4714 and others. I see that Gojam is now doing a massive u-turn and deleting posts from the Needle too. He must think that people will have forgotten about him spreading the Elm Guest House list around the Internet and giving a platform to fantasists and liars like Christopher Fay and Tim Tate and some others. What a tangled web. I see many of them are doing what other bilge rats do whenever the ship they infest begins to sink. They skuttle off as fast as their bony legs will carry them.

Its going to be an impossible task to separate those who are true victims, people with False Memory Syndrome ( who believe they are telling the truth) and those who are making up stories for monetary and fame reasons.

Nick and this case will be the one where any accused be they famous or not will be able to point and use it as a reference point of false allegations ( if they are )

There was a point last year when it felt like the Government abuse was going to be investigated properly………

And it is my belief, and of many others I am sure, that these ‘False Accusers’ were only given the platform they were, to not only discourage the genuine survivors speaking out – but also to promote the idea among the populace that those who do speak out, are liars and fantasists.

Never mind this kiddy-fiddler stuff. Did you not know that Spiveyland has posted a new investigation on that Glasgow bin-lorry thing? In which he calls one of the guys that was sitting behind the passed-out driver a “f*cking liar”.

I really do hope he gets done for libel on this.

Can anyone here pass on this info to the man so libelled? & “harassed”?.

Can’t believe he’s still flogging this same old dead horse. What a monumental bore, I can only presume that his little court appearance has taken the wind out of his sails and he is playing it safe by continuing this nonsensical theory?

He’s even involved Robert Carlyle in the Glasgow ‘hoax’ now. Utter madness to say the least.

I wonder if his daughter will still support him when she grows up? It’s a bit like Rolf Harris’s daughter isn’t it? Hanging in there for either the money or the notoriety that having a fucking idiot for a dad brings.

You really have to wonder why his band of sycophantic followers still cling on to his every word? Is it because they are nobodies in life, just like their master?

They failed at everything, so by joining a group of other failures they can swap stories about how much they fail, all the while feeling that by sharing their stories of failure, they actually belong to a group of fellow failures? I’ve baffled myself now! 🙂

Tell you what, I hate the fucking Tories, but every time I visit Spivey’s page I feel like voting for them, just to stick two fingers up to the workshy, smelly, socialist wankers that frequent his site.

Ah Professor Mind-Meld, that’s where you’ve been hiding.
There is some desperate water treating gong on. People with different faces glued together, with teeth that are at totally different angles on 1 side to the other but they are the same people……… apparently.

I did actually wonder, because of the Woolwich stuff, whether he’d been banged up & the goon squad are going for Do or Die – if he’s in prison, he can’t be held responsible for the things added to the website can he? …… kind of thing.

No one is surely that gutted to have flunked the Auditions for the Only way Is Yorkshire that they go to those kinds of desperation measures can they?

Me & my wishful thinking, ever the optimist ; )

Thanks for dropping by my page earlier NeilTat – sorry about the really bad ‘straw’ clutching. I almost offended the entire Isle Of Wight by mentioning straws. 🙂

Amazingly after you left, John wrote me a Dear Jane John letter, his wife was getting jealous of him staying up all hours stalking & harassing me apparently, all very …… weird 🙂

If nothing else they show the fantasy and paranoia that has affected not only Spiv but many of the crackpots that comment on that site.

Keep yourself and your family safe as these cultists are starting to worry me.

Thea 56
SEPTEMBER 2, 2015 @ 5:26 PM
you know Chris I think the Royal stories are worrying the PTSB more. Esp the Wilf I am and Catalina and babies. I have been led to belief increasingly so that William will be crowned the King of the New Order. Its a cosmic plan and unites a Royal Bloodline for first time in 300 years. look how scared the matrix got a month ago – a channel 4 docu on how Lord Mountbatten was to blame for everything war related and hard for royals related as well as them chucking in the Nazi videos to murky the search engines and flush out us truth seers probably. If you do no further article Chris, you will have already topped the sleeping cow over. because we know how easily they dispose of people, I actually think you should be extra careful. AND the idea of funding safe Houses for you guys is a great idea. As soon as I have funds you will get some cash hon you and the dogs and cats rescued abroad (don’t get me started on dog meat festivals 🙁 ) Jism might have alters from sounds of it? Prob MK Ultraed? Anyone know his background with any clarity? Namaste All xxx

REPLY
raine1
SEPTEMBER 2, 2015 @ 8:27 PM
Hi Thea 56, hope you are well. I also suspect that Jones is MK Ultra’d and almost certainly being controlled by the establishment (possibly MI5). I also strongly suspect that he HAS suffered from sexual abuse as a child for several reasons.

1. People who have suffered childhood sexual abuse are easier to MK Ultra and the powers-that-be know this

2. Many adults that have suffered childhood sexual abuse are tiny in stature; the trauma of what they are going through as a child stunts their growth; this is a FACT. Now of course, not everyone who is sexually abused as a child has stunted growth, but huge numbers of them do.

3. A great many people who have gone through sexual abuse as a child suffer from deep psychological problems and mental illness, and there can be no doubt that Jones is DEEPLY disturbed.

Now I am NOT excusing what he is and what he does, but the powers-that-be DO use deeply traumatized and damaged people to do their dirty work for them, and this is what makes Jones a very dangerous individual. On his own he is a rather pathetic creature, but the powerful scumbags behind him are deeply evil and will stop at nothing to discredit truthseekers like Chris. We must all be on our guard. Tc mate, Lorraine, x

REPLY
adeybob
SEPTEMBER 3, 2015 @ 12:47 AM
wow.
Scintillating bit of summary there, Raine.
I keep going on about the ‘£’ incentive for Jones…and keep getting told that he’s as poor as a church mouse. Trouble is…by ‘£’ I don’t actually mean money.
Most everyone has a price, and those who can dehumanise others, have a lower price than most.
Jones is bought, however it’s looked at. If he don’t realise that, then he’s thicker than even his own ‘people’ think he is.
If he’s handled by ‘5, then they have got very loose reins on him…makes me think the control is some distance from Jones – possibly 2 or 3 stages removed from him.
IF it IS ‘5…then, as I’ve said before…he shouldn’t be ‘operational’ after all his cock-ups. Time will tell on that one.
Personally…I think ‘5, and such like, are so embedded into the media, cops, judiciary, etc, that they don’t know who the hell they are anymore, or what their remit is throughout large parts of their ‘low-level interference’ operations.
Anyways…I know you don’t need my qualification or approval, but I had to say, ‘nice one’ for that comment.

Is being 5′ 7″ tall considered ‘Tiny’ nowadays? – and not only that, their claim that being of small stature is a ‘sure sign of being trauma Mind-Controlled’, will of course apply to and worry a lot of people I should think.

I expect no less from the constantly addled Adeybob, as he has always shown disturbing levels of paranoia, but I just put that down to the huge levels of Skunk he smokes every day. His on/off companion @Supervetty has described him as ‘A very clean Junkie’ on Twitter, so make of that what you will.

I am still waiting for them to announce that I am a ‘Crisis Actor’ too, and in reality I am Johnny Depp on the down low.. 🙂

My only advice would be to not give them any oxygen. What they are doing is keeping you focussed on their rubbish and trying to distract from looking at what is really going on.

It may, however, be worth asking why there was a missing page on the ‘Chewed by his dogs’ charge sheet he published, what else was on that that was not being shown?

Heroin/Cocaine possession? Benefit Fraud?

Or something else entirely?

Whatever it was, he was not overly keen to allow his followers to see what else it was he had been charged with.

CARL SEEMS TO HAVE READ THIS PAGE AND HAS HAD A RANT IN SPIVEYLAND, CALLING YOU SOME NOT NICE THINGS.
THEN ME AND KT GET ATTACKED:-

Carl
September 6, 2015 @ 11:03 pm
KT, OG, pray there is no hell as your master will undoubtedly burn for eternity.
—
AND NOW SPIVEY GETS TICKED OFF – INVITED TO COME TO GLASGOW. WILL HE GET TRAMLINES, I WONDER?.:-

Angela Hopkins
September 7, 2015 @ 10:51 am

You really are one sick, twisted individual so you are! How DARE you even for one moment suggest that this even did not happen! Just how low can you stoop? Have you learnt nothing from your recent court appearance where even the judge dismissed you as a crack pot! People like you are a waste of good body parts and are oxygen thieves! You are lower than the lowest slithering invertebrates. In face that’s exactly what you are. An invertebrate. You don’t have a back bone! You are not human or even a man! You really do need psychiatric help you are delusional and live in a world unbeknown to anybody apart from you!

I was there that day. I witnessed things that nobody should ever witness! Ever time I shut my eyes at night I still relive the events of that day! The sounds, the screams then the eerie silence when people realised what had happened! It was sickening! How dare you say none of it happened. How dare you put the families through even more hell than they are going through just now! Just how dare you! Come up to Scotland! Enter Glasgow! Ask the people on the street what happened. Do not sit in your house in England and pontificate and draw surmises about things you know nothing about!

I am personally reporting this page and specifically you to the police for hate crime against my fellow Scots and the families involved in what happened that day. You ought to be ashamed of yourself! You really are a disgrace to the human race! I am so glad people like you are few and far between as you stink! You stink to high heaven. There’s not a decent none in your body!

SO THERE WE ARE. A PAGE OF COMPLETE & UTTER EFFING NONSENSE. BUT HIS IDOLISERS/FAN CLUB ARE LAPPING IT UP. (BUT I DO NOTICE THAT THE NUMBER OF COMMENTERS IS GETTING SMALLER).

hiya Outlaw. What’s your overall feelings on Wikipedia? I don’t trust it myself. Have a shifty of wickidpedias explanation of the daily shit that is sprayed on the herd. Chemtrail,Conspiracy Theory, then a load of shit about persistent contrails. Con and a tail my friends. Wikipedia’s full of it. Its funny, Spivey quotes it regularly but as we know this mainstream shit is in league with the occultist satanic shits that rule.

Wikipedia is a difficult one to work out sometimes. I use it to reference certain things on here sometimes, because as I explained in a number of articles previously, Wiki is the first port of call for the greater majority of people online.

And instantly recognisable and familiar to many.

The trouble with it, is that it’s founder Jimmy Wales has a shadowy history and without a doubt it, and he are totally controlled.

Wiki should never be viewed as the definitive version of the facts about anything, because it’s far too easy to be edited by anyone with a Wiki account.

A good example of this was when the rumours about Lord McAlpine started circulating in the media and all over the web, his Wiki page was edited the same day to remove the references to his collection of Ovenden pictures.

Anybody who becomes prominent in the media for the slightest indiscretion, especially of those in the political arena, will have their pages sanitised within hours.

Personally I do not use it as a main source, I ALWAYS cross-reference any entries I use, and if there is no other sources available, I stress that Wikipedia is the only one available and therefore not 100% reliable.

It’s like Google, it’s the biggest of its type online, it’s a veritable behemoth, and if it did actually reflect reality, it would not be anywhere the position it holds.

It’s also banned in some countries because of it’s biased and inaccurate depictions of various countrys’ past and present leaderships and regimes I believe.

North Korea being the most notable example.

It’s Adolf Hitler page is totally one-sided, which goes for it’s version of the Second World War and it’s aftermath in general.

Jimmy Wales, the “alleged” Wikipedia founder started out as a Jewish pornographer. Porn is a “Jewish” thing – you can take that to the bank, so to speak.

Thus you can absolutely guarantee that it ultimately serves the “tribes” purposes.

Also, they’re very sloppy about who is allowed to edit entries. A few years ago they discovered that the guy responsible for religious items didn’t have the degree in Comparative Religions that he claimed to have.

There have been other such scandals, but I can’t be arsed to try to look them all up.

i can’t be arsed to wade through that dross but does he address the point i raised earlier? namely the graphic video shown in court actually showing people being mowed down? it was so graphic that relatives were advised to leave the courtroom and many chose to do so. any mention of that?

I was feeling nostalgic late night listening to Cat Stevens and having a few beers. I know I thought I’ll post a tongue in cheek response to the latest Spivsters yawnfest…feeling a bit mischievous like you do…..and see what happens. Priscilla D’Arbanvillle sounded like an appropriate monicker for such a tras..sorry classy site…although I always use the same IP Address to piss no shit Sherlock Dogger off. Needless to say it was..bang in context…. AND BINNED

So now I feel obliged to pay tribute to the GREAT BINMAN himself here…the home of free speech.

Sing along…I think you’ll find it NEARLY scans.

With respect and apologies to the late great king of skiffle Lonnie Donegan…here goes.

Kwissy is a binman
His love in life is trash
Doesn’t get his hand dirty
Cos a keyboard makes his cash

Kwissy is a binman
The thing he writes are tat
He doesn’t put his boots on
Just smokes in his council flat

I say,I say.Isay
I’ve found a DOGMAN in my dustbin
How do you know it’s a DOGMAN?
He has a Kwis with him!!

kwissy is a binman
He’s recently been to court
He said he’d take the judge on
But his boasting came to naught

I say,I say,I say
My Dustbin’s full of Willies
..Well throw them away then
I can’t… Kwis is wearing them!

He found a Wolfie head one day
Which seemed to be in pain
He asked it what the problem was
…I’m married to fucking RAINE!

Kwissy is a binman
He never shoots or hunts
He hates the educated
And calls them FUCKING CUNTS

I say,Isay,Isay..not you again!!
My site is fool of fools
How do you know they’re fools?
Cos they think I’m booti fool!

Kwissy is a binman
He’s full of hate and bile
He hangs about with deadbeats
Cos he’s not got any style

Next time you meet a binman
Trying to take the piss
Don’t kick him on his strap on
Cos it might be our old Kwiss!!

Mag-effing-nificent! And yes, I’m old enough to remember Lonnie Donegan, the 6-5 Special, and see Bill Haley and his Comets at, IIRC, the Edmonton “Regal” in 1957.

And to witness the Rolling Stones first tour at the same place in the winter of ’62 – ’63, when the snow stayed in piles by the roadside until early March and there were long queues of the unemployed at the Labour Exchanges because the harsh and long winter had affected the jobs market. (I remember, because I was one of them).. And Jaggers mike playing up and Brian Jones playing maraccas, and Bo Diddley headlining on the same bill.

And the Chas McDevitt skiffle group with Nancy Whiskey at the Walthamstow Granada. Then, when the Beatles bought the Saville theatre in London in the mid -’60s,Little Richard and later Chuck Berry there. And then Jerry Lee Lewis at the Coulsdon Hall in Croydon.

You’ve brought back memories here – but of course you weren’t to know that!

So I hear, well if Claires totally unprofessional services are in short demand (Halle-bloody-luja for a start) she’ll just have to get a job she’s more suited to, although she could cause a lot of breakages dish washing too, but not quite as serious damage as her unbelievable actions could cause to vulnerable people who have the misfortune to think her registration keeps them safe from shysters like her.

Oh and, Darren does tweet subtle threats to Steven Messham to keep him in his place. It works because Steven ended up in the mental hospital after what they did to him on Newsnight and then on Twitter.

I remember the night I jump in to defend Steven he said he had something on Darren and was going to talk. Then Darren tried to get Steven to suicide.

JaneSeptember 9, 2015

Thanks Jennie. As soon as I set that account up, Fabooka was on my case, which just shows how much I am being followed around.

I had no plans to document it or even use the page.

Fabooka was my inspiration, and when Belinda McKenzie announced her exile, which was too good not to post up & share the good news of, he started trying to niggle me off Google.

I suspect the mention of Spiveys beloved Maggie ‘Charity blag hag’ Tuttle was the draw.

Seeing as he absolutely insisted on pushing his luck, I thought sod it, time for a few home truths. Pretty obvious someone called Fabooka off after 6 weeks, it came to a very abrupt but beautiful and peaceful end.

I know our ‘fan club’ are checking in. I blocked at least 2 of the hags Google accounts ages ago, but there will be more. I know they are lurking, I can feel their ugly presence & they were feeding Fabooka all the rubbish he was hurling at me, as is obvious.

Gojam even set up a Google account to come take a peek.

Having it all up there with ‘examples of their work’ helps make sense of it & exactly who is who & how they all link together & are no small group of randoms as well as how relentless they are.

If they want someone to thank for it, Fabooka deserves all the credit for it’s existence & their slow painful humiliation at my fingertips 🙂

They have more than earned it after all.

If it stops people being snaked by them, even better.

At some ungodly hour this morning, I was wondering if an extra reason for Sonia’s organised, targeted battering just happened to be sitting on The This Morning Sofa at more regular intervals lately.

In fact that 1 TV program seems to be a bit of a theme, even if you do believe Phil Schofield handed over ‘That List’ because he’s a ‘peoples geeza’.

Bonus in the pay packet & a pretend slap on the wrist?

Wiggy Mania (mostly for herself) was also spawned from that show.

And of course, MWT struck a deal with Shiver, the factual division of ITV Studios in 2013.

When you take into consideration the info from the Dorset couple RE: ‘Mr Pubes’ high ranking associations, his good friend & pet dog Ron having to be ‘Quarantined’ on Twitter, Gojams ceaseless fawning devotion, illegal Lib Dem involvement & all the rest of it……. the only questions left are why/how are they still getting away with it?

As for Messham, the comment I posted up vanished I think. But I have seen them use the same kind of tactic, on Jimbo Reeves (O’Connell) & others, when he looks to be stepping out of line “remember the emails we shared Jimbo, they are safe..”

Gain peoples trust, listen to their secrets, use and hold those secrets against them, putty in your hands. Some people have been doing that since forever, making a career out of it. Some not quite so well as they did last time though thankfully.
Forget Watergate, this is …….

Ho! I’d forgotten all about the mysterious spade – or were there two?
Still, no need for anything fancy here, just any old spade would do. I find the ‘campaigners’ inactivity baffling – they could so easily bring the house of cards tumbling to the ground, but they are too busy moaning & wailing to take the initiative… bizarre!

OldGitSeptember 8, 2015

Terrible news! The spivs latest bin-lorry expose has attracted less than 100 comments. & his new “Why does the Mail publicise stories of women who’ve lost a leg?” article is still struggling for commenters. What a shame, isn’t it?.

BECAUSE IT’S THE SPIVS FEEDING GROUND! DID I NOT POINT OUT A FEW POSTS BACK THAT HIS “CONTROLLERS” KNOW HIS FAVOURITE WATERING HOLE, & SO DIRECT HIM SUBTLETY TO WHERE THEY WANT HIM TO GO? & FIND THE STUFF THEY WANT HIM TO FIND?

Christopher Spivey is a conspiracy theorist who has made the lives of Lee Rigby’s family hell. He believes, without any foundation, that the murder was a plot to whip up anti-Islamic feeling. He even claimed that the soldier never existed and his harassment of the relatives landed him in court.

The exasperated judge rightly said that nothing would ever convince Spivey that he was wrong. Every MP knows the type: the constituent who in the teeth of evidence will insist there is a conspiracy. I had one who believed I was a Freemason conspiring with the police to persecute her! People deny the Holocaust.

They deny Armstrong walked on the moon. They believe CIA agents were hiding in the bushes to murder Dr David Kelly or that the late Princess of Wales was killed on the orders of the Royal Family. They think UFOs have landed.

Such people all function perfectly normally in everyday life and before the birth of the internet most conspiracy theorists were harmless and caused no greater sensation than incredulous laughter in a pub. Now they can disseminate their views sufficiently widely to hurt survivors or families and even attract others to their causes.

It is right that Christopher Spivey should have been prosecuted if only in order to protect Lee Rigby’s family but he will go to his grave believing the rot he promulgates.

It makes me wonder whether there is still anybody around who believes Earth is flat”

I find it amusing that the halfwit Dogman loves quoting Joseph Goebbels. He likes parroting this same old quote….

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

What he fails to state is that there is absolutely no record of Goebbels ever having said this. Not a single one! I think it would be something more attributable to Stalin’s Jewish propaganda minister Ilya Ehrenburg. Of course, as we know, history is NOT written by the losers. Here is a true Goebbels quote….

“Good propaganda does not need to lie, indeed it may not lie. It has no reason to fear the truth. It is a mistake to believe that people cannot take the truth. They can. It is only a matter of presenting the truth to people in a way that they will be able to understand. A propaganda that lies proves that it has a bad cause. It cannot be successful in the long run.”

Another quote often attributed to Goebbels is….

“When one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it.”

But as usual those who use the quote are rather selective, leaving out certain parts of it.

The entire quote is….

“The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.”

I used to think Dogman had a bit of sensibilty about him, looks like I was wrong. Think he’s been spending too much time around the ‘Lord and Saviour’, and I don’t mean Jesus Christ.

“In the primitive simplicity of their minds, they will more easily fall victim to a large lie than a small lie, since they sometimes tell petty lies themselves, but would be ashamed to tell a lie that was too big. They would never consider telling a lie of such magnitude themselves, or knowing that it would require such impudence, they would not consider it possible for it to be told by others. Even after being enlightened and shown that the lie is a lie, they will continue to doubt and waver for a long time and will still believe there must be some truth behind it somewhere, and there must be some other explanation. For this reason, some part of the most bold and brazen lie is sure to stick. This is a fact that all the great liars and liars’ societies (meaning the Jewish press) in this world know only too well and use regularly.” – Adolf Hitler (Mien Kampf)

This article is totally wrong. There are other links to all this, and the investigation is far more complicated than just Nick’s information. If you remember, two interviews were cancelled with Harvey Proctor, and the ones that did take place were because Harvey’s soliciter insisted on them. Why? You do not give any explanation of that?

All this happened at the end of March this year. However I believe it relates to events last year, (before Nick even contacted the police).

There are ‘others’ involved, with links to Harvey Proctor, that are still being investigated. The ‘web’ is far more intricate, and weaving, than any member of the press, or indeed Nick himself knows. The BBC are aware of these investigations, but your article seems to just be following the lines of the popular press?

There is ‘real’ concrete evidence, but Harvey Proctor was told that he was only ‘helping police with their enquiries’, and not a suspect, which part of that did he not understand I wonder? He may in future be a suspect, the links lead to others as well.

Hello, DHA.
I’ve noticed your comments before (Twitter & elsewhere). I’m not sure why you state that the article is “totally wrong” when it is, in fact, well researched & referenced and makes it plain that:

“… If his [“Nick”] accounts are true, he has been subjected to terrible crimes, and has witnessed many more. Insofar as it is possible, given the 30-year time lag, everyone involved in inflicting these horrific tortures and murders should be prosecuted with the same vigor and persistence employed to track down war criminals from the World War II death camps. This is all the more imperative if they were public officials who were protected by corrupted political powers.”

I hope I don’t ever meet anyone who would not agree with the above statement. People who are unconvinced of the truth of the claims are not automatically ‘in favour’ of brutalising & murdering children, you know!

They are not even LIKELY to think in such a way.

You state that:“The ‘web’ is far more intricate, and weaving, than any member of the press, or indeed Nick himself knows.”

Isn’t that just another way of saying “I know more than you (but for some secret reason I’m not gonna tell you all about it)”?

There is no need for intricacy, nor weaving. Just facts will do. Regarding Proctor, I replied to someone on a BarristerBlog-post about him, pointing out that the tale had now bizarrely grown to encompass “two Harvey Proctors”. I had no idea then what this was even supposed to mean, and the fact that you now suggest on Twitter something about “three Harveys” has me even more confused. Speaking in riddles is worse than saying nothing.

(I followed some of your comments elsewhere once and found you ‘investigating’ an unsolved murder, which for all the world seemed likely to be a fight between children that went wrong… yet it was somehow being woven into a possible case of paedophile murderers. I spent a couple of hours idly flitting through articles trying to find the germ of this idea, and I couldn’t – I could find no basis for the belief/suspicion. None at all.)

Will you be twisting or sticking on 3 HPs?

P.S. A Twitter-spat today reveals the thinking behind many of those who claim to be fighting for justice: the Gambaccini-case. They seem incapable of accepting that he really isn’t guilty, and relentlessly push the idea that maybe there was just not enough evidence (of his undoubted guilt).

Literally, the belief that there is no smoke without fire.

Sean O’Neill from The Times resorts to ‘blue language’ in his apparent frustration:

“wake up people, police case against PG was shite from day 1 and they knew it … Not everyone is guilty!”

Yes there are indeed now three Harvey Proctors, and, at the moment, not three boys, but five boys, which in many ways shows the problems that Operation Midland are trying to wade through. Originally, as I said, before Nick went to the police, the murders had already been reported, but they were unable to investigate because there were no original witness statements.

The Nick reported his case to the police, and operation Midland was set up.

This then became an investigation into one murder, and and two possible murders, (three boys), a fourth boy who was murdered was ruled out by Nick.

At that point we had one Harvey Proctor, but at the end of March, further evidence came to light showing that there were now two Harvey Proctors, so the police cancelled two interviews with the first Harvey Proctor, and started investigating the second Harvey.

The first Harvey Proctor insisted on being interviewed, twice, and his soliciter made it clear that if he was not interviewed they would take legal action. The second Harvey Proctor investigation started, Detective Hogan-Howe said, of operation Midland, ‘others are now helping us, ‘, “not necessarily victims’. Now for a straight talking Yorkshireman that is some statement. You are either a victim, or not a victim. To be ‘not necessarily’ a victim says everything about the complexity of this case, as it sounds like a line from an Oscar Wilde play.

So the second Harvey proctor is now being investigated, along with his accomplices.

Also at this time, one of the boys was brought into doubt, so we had four boys. The second Harvey Proctor however might be involved with another boy who was ruled out by Nick, so we now have five boys.

A third Harvey Proctor, who may have also been involved with the fifth boy now appears, with his friend, a doctor, and an Army General.

Allow me to make my own clarification – unless a secret program of human-cloning was launched decades before Dolly, there is only ONE person whose identity is Harvey Proctor the former MP. Unsurprisingly, that man is… Harvey Proctor (the ex-MP)!

Anything else is pure unadulterated bullshit. The ‘second HP’ is not HP at all, is he? He is not, therefore, the ‘second HP’. Ditto the ‘third HP’.

Why pointlessly confuse things in this way, dishing up plate after plate of spurious guff? Not just a doppleganger but a ‘tripleganger’!

You state that: “before Nick went to the police, the murders had already been reported, but they were unable to investigate because there were no original witness statements.”

When were they reported? Were the alleged victims named? Who reported them? And WHY were there no statements?

You don’t need statements to investigate a missing person, anyway, and you most certainly don’t need when a body is found… I’m afraid that your words don’t really add up to even a tiny hill of beans.

Your bizarre deconstruction of Hogan-Howe’s statement shows that you’ll spot a ‘clue’ where there really isn’t one; it doesn’t sound at all like Oscar Wilde, just standard cop-speak! For God’s sake, man!

“Now for a straight talking Yorkshireman that is some statement. You are either a victim, or not a victim.”

For the love of Christ, “not necessarily victims” could have meant… oh, sod it, I really can’t be bothered.

By the way, I’m a Northerner like Hogan-Howe, and I’ll put me cloth-cap on to tell you that what you’ve written here is just plain daft.

Plain daft!

P.S. Just had a glance at your Twitter-output; you state: “I have leaves see link below” & said link leads to an article about how plants can help solve crimes.

That same question is being asked by more and more people, as a concerted attempt to discredit genuine CSA survivors has been in place since Steven Messham did/did not accuse Lord McAlpine on Newsnight in November 2013, and then retract the allegation soon afterwards.

If my/others theory is correct, I would think it highly unlikely the police would be aware as the less people who know about these sort of operations the better.

Usually it would only be the operative (ie Nick/Darren/Esther) their handler and the head of department. Plus of couse the individual/small group who ordered the operation in the first place.

As for Proctor, I shouldnt have used the word innocent as I think he probably has partaken of a few underage boys in his time, but not murder. I do think though he has been chosen for a convenient patsy as he has previous for caning rent boys etc and would be more likely to be believed by the public as an abuser.

The reason I think Nick is not genuine is because he names people most fantasists would not have known about, like Maurice Oldfield and Michael Hanley for example.

So either he was at those parties and is telling the truth or at the parties but embellishing the story especially about the murders, or has been coached by spooks.

Given the stated timeframe of 1970-2005 and unless MP`s have been charged and tried in secret, I can only think of one sitting MP who could have been alleged to have received only specimen charges instead of more serious ones as cited by the IPCC yesterday.

Unless of course you accept duddenhallapproveds’ theory in which case there could have been three such cases.

I’d be surprised if the allegation is true IF it relates to Proctor as his prosecution was a tabloid-media led campaign, and the same tabloid-media will have had access to the evidence; it was they that produced it, after all, hunting for male-prostitutes & paying them to record their dalliances (including lying about their age when asked by Proctor).

But who knows?

I wouldn’t expect too much to come from those endless investigations, to be honest. Anyone who has read the type of cop-gossip that got Exaro so excited will have seen what rubbish most of it is, and how, well, ‘thick’ the majority of the dot-joiners seem.

Similar investigations set-off by fishwives – Danczuk, for example, or ALL of the Savile cases – have shown that there really wasn’t much to see… but we’re living through a period in which everyone is scared of being accused of covering up.

Hence, referral after referral based on hot-air. We’ll just have to wait & see.

(I had wondered if the allegation as reported hadn’t confused a ‘caution’ with a ‘charge’.)

Let`s assume the IPCC would make a mistake like mixing up a caution and a charge for a moment and think what MP`s during that time frame has accepted a caution for child sex offences?
I dont know of any, not publicised anyway,but I`m not saying you are necessarily wrong in that assumption.

As for any possible evidence against Proctor it might not be the tabloid stuff, but earlier offences the police knew about (just speculating) but were forced into a prosecution by the press and so conveniently dropped any of the previous offences.