I'm against it. There are many threads on this subject, buy the consensus is always the same. Turkey has no business to be in the EU and we in the EU have more to gain by keeping Turkey out indefinitely.

A lot of people would think that the UK has no business being in the EU , or Italy , indeed if you name any of the current 27 members I am sure you would be able to find someone who thinks that they have no business being in the EU - would you care to be more specific why you think Turkey has no business being in the EU ?

Quoting IliriBDL (Reply 5):They are modern and more deserving than Romania for example. Plus they play a big role in NATO. Also them being a muslim country should have nothing to do with their ability to enter the EU.

Them being a muslim country has nothing to do with it, rather that Turkey is a sham of a country that is on the verge of collapse at any given time.

Romania is also a European country, unlike Turkey, which gives it a huge leg-up compared to Turkey. If the EU ever decides to let in non-European countries, then perhaps Turkey could be seriously considered.

The sad reality is that skin color and religion will always come into play when entering into this debate. Turkey being predominantly Muslim (despite being a secular state) will always be held back by this fact. There is already a fair bit of contempt towards minorities around Europe and no shortage of incidents where Muslims are the victims. Allowing Turkey to join would open up the floodgates for this type of incident.

All things considered Turkey will not ever be allowed in the EU, really they might as well call it the European Christian Union. A favorite argument amongst those against Turkey joining is "porous borders" that would supposedly put the EU at the mercy of illegal immigration from Asia. This is total BS as Turkey has strong border controls enforced by its military.

Quoting Asturias (Reply 10):I'm sorry, you're just grasping at straws, playing the 'religion' card and ignoring that Romania was far far FAR better qualified than Turkey will be in the foreseeable future.

Romania was not qualified at all.

Turkey on the other hand is more qualified than any Balkan state at the moment. Including Greece who is in the EU but still plays the nationalist card and causing problems with Macedonia over its name.

You my friend seems that you hate Turkey and the Turks, otherwise you haven't proved how they are not qualified.

Quoting IliriBDL (Reply 11):You my friend seems that you hate Turkey and the Turks, otherwise you haven't proved how they are not qualified.

OK, now that the religion card is out, you play the race card. Well done. Not going to help your argument one iota, but hey.

Let's make one thing clear: it is YOU who need to demonstrate how Turkey is more qualified than Romania, because you're making that claim!

Meanwhile back in reality, Romania was found to be more qualified than Turkey by the EU. But what do they know?

This is like arguments on the KC-X for the USAF. The USAF chooses product A, but fans of product B claim that it's really better for the USAF. Surely the USAF chose product A because of politics, not on merits, no matter what documents and reality shows. It's all secret bias.

I won't even dignify your claims of me hating Turkey with an answer. The EU has found that Romania is qualified given the requirements of the Union and it has found Turkey lacking. That's the reality.

Perhaps Turkey isn't better off in a Union with countries that have different priorities - after all Turkey has had decades to achieve the requirements of the EU and it hasn't. It's a democratic country, isn't it? Well, it hasn't chosen to go in the direction of the EU for whatever reason, it has only decided to apply for membership.

Quoting Asturias (Reply 6):Romania is also a European country, unlike Turkey, which gives it a huge leg-up compared to Turkey. If the EU ever decides to let in non-European countries, then perhaps Turkey could be seriously considered.

A significant part of Turkey is in Europe. Why should they be disqualified just because part of if is outside Europe?

That said, I'm undecided on whether or not Turkey should be admitted to the EU... but not due to geographical issues.

I think they should be allowed to enter, eventually. Turkey has a long way to go on human rights and regional self-determination (plus the whole Cyprus thing), and the current trend away from a secular state towards a more Islamic one will not help their cause. Religion per say is not the issue, but religious influence and potential religious intolerance is. I think Turkey has a perfect right to join the EU provided they meet the entry criteria.

Quoting David L (Reply 13):A significant part of Turkey is in Europe. Why should they be disqualified just because part of if is outside Europe?

That said, I'm undecided on whether or not Turkey should be admitted to the EU... but not due to geographical issues.

No an *insignificant* part of Turkey is on geographical Europe. However, that in and of itself isn't the point. Take Iceland for example. While they seem to be happy in EFTA with little aspirations to elevate themselves to full EU membership, they'd be accepted in a heartbeat.

Yet, about 50% of Iceland is geographically in America.

However there is no doubt in anyone's mind that Iceland is European. Not because of geography. Also the question isn't just "should Turkey join the EU at some point", rather it is *can* Turkey join at some point. Is it in the interest of the EU?

Whether Turkey is or is not in geographical Europe is debatable, but it requires immense historical revisionism to place it there, though that is not beneath some people.

Regardless, even though one would come to the decision that it is indeed part of Europe, that opens the question whether it should join or not and even though one would find that it should, one has to ask if it could.

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Turkey needs to get far closer to the E.U. than in the past as now half the Mediterranean has the same association as Turkey. But as the E.U. has no requirement for Turkey while Turkey has a requirement for the E.U. it clearly is the business of Turkey to adjust things like minority rights etc.
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Quoting Asturias (Reply 6):Turkey is a sham of a country that is on the verge of collapse at any given time.

Turkey is NOT on the verge of collapse and is rather very strong, with a strong industry
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Quoting Asturias (Reply 6):If the EU ever decides to let in non-European countries, then perhaps Turkey could be seriously considered.

No, then Turkey will not be considered, as Turkey IS a European country
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Well, well, well... if the spinmeister hasn't arrived. In a way this thread has now run its course.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 16):Turkey is a European country, Israel in a way as well. Morocco is a member of the Arab League, and together with Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Jordan an E.U. associate.

How, pray tell, is Turkey a European country? How is Israel, in a way, a European country as well?

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 16):no, it is not a completely different culture, it is similar to the cultures of the countries on the Balkans like Bulgaria, Macedonia, Albania, Kosovo

How is it not a different culture? How is it similar to Bulgaria, Macedonia, Albania and Kosovo?

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 16):the Strategic Partnership and their Association Treaty are already in place, and Turkey even is a full member of NATO.

NATO membership is irrelevant to EU membership. Ireland, Austria, Finland and Sweden are not NATO members. France is only a partial member.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 16):Turkey needs to get far closer to the E.U. than in the past as now half the Mediterranean has the same association as Turkey. But as the E.U. has no requirement for Turkey while Turkey has a requirement for the E.U. it clearly is the business of Turkey to adjust things like minority rights etc.

I'm sure it is in the interest of Turkey to get far closer to the EU and although Turkey's aspirations towards that goal have been half-hearted and insufficient, that seems to be Turkeys general, half-hearted intent. Why have Turkey's actions been so disinterested? Whatever the reason, it has resulted in that Turkey is far from being qualified from becoming a member of the EU, were that ever to be seriously considered.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 16):Turkey is NOT on the verge of collapse and is rather very strong, with a strong industry

I say it is on the verge of collapse.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 16):No, then Turkey will not be considered, as Turkey IS a European country

How is it a European country?

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 16):let's not forget, that geographically, Malta is in Africa (south of Tunis) and Cyprus is in Asia.

Let us not forget that geography isn't the most relevant factor when deciding whether a country is European or not.

Quoting Asturias (Reply 10):I'm going to request people stop the religious whining. Sweden was admitted to the EU and there are less than 10% who considerthemselves Christian in any meaningful way in that country!

How is that religious whining? It's a fact that being predominantly Muslim is a barrier to entry. Bury your head in the sand all you want, but that's the truth. I'm not Muslim but if I were I think I would rather the EU just came out an admitted what was going on rather than skirting around the issue and using the possibility of EU membership as a carrot to guide the actions of Turkey in Iraq and elsewhere...

Quoting Asturias (Reply 10):
I'm sorry, you're just grasping at straws, playing the 'religion' card and ignoring that Romania was far far FAR better qualified than Turkey will be in the foreseeable future.

Turkey is in terms of ideology, technology, military and broader outlook is more in line with the EU now than Romania is or was at time of entry to the EU. This too is a fact. The horrible treatment of gypsies in Eastern Europe has been glossed over yet any repression by the Turks is blasted by Brussels... Are you telling me that's a level playing field?

Quoting YOWza (Reply 18):Quoting Asturias (Reply 10):
I'm going to request people stop the religious whining. Sweden was admitted to the EU and there are less than 10% who considerthemselves Christian in any meaningful way in that country!

How is that religious whining? It's a fact that being predominantly Muslim is a barrier to entry. Bury your head in the sand all you want, but that's the truth. I'm not Muslim but if I were I think I would rather the EU just came out an admitted what was going on rather than skirting around the issue and using the possibility of EU membership as a carrot to guide the actions of Turkey in Iraq and elsewhere...

What about if in future Albania and Bosnia want to join? Both countries are clearly within the geographical limits of Europe, but both have a predominantly Muslim population.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 18):How is that religious whining? It's a fact that being predominantly Muslim is a barrier to entry. Bury your head in the sand all you want, but that's the truth. I'm not Muslim but if I were I think I would rather the EU just came out an admitted what was going on rather than skirting around the issue and using the possibility of EU membership as a carrot to guide the actions of Turkey in Iraq and elsewhere...

That's religious whining because you're erroneously claiming that religion has anything to do with a nation's appliance to the EU. Religion is not standing in the way of Turkey's membership to the EU which has been made abundantly clear by the EU, which has never mentioned the dominating religion of any applicant country.

If you can demonstrate that the EU has ever made the condition that a country needs to be Christian to join, you have a point. Otherwise, it would only help your arguments to drop that religious-bias claim immediately.

I'll agree with you on that I think it is high time the EU comes clean and says in no uncertain terms that Turkey hasn't improved to any significant degree since it began applying to the EU and at this rate it will never be applicable for ascension to the Union.

In other words, tell them to stop applying until they fulfil EU membership qualifications. I agree that to keep a dialogue between the EU and Turkey only gives Turkey false hopes that will not be realized.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 18):Turkey is in terms of ideology, technology, military and broader outlook is more in line with the EU now than Romania is or was at time of entry to the EU. This too is a fact. The horrible treatment of gypsies in Eastern Europe has been glossed over yet any repression by the Turks is blasted by Brussels... Are you telling me that's a level playing field?

No. Romania was and is in terms of ideology, technology, military and broader outlook more in line with the EU than Turkey was and is. That is a fact. That is why Romania is now a member of the EU and Turkey is not.

Your opinion goes right against reality. If you were right, then Turkey would already be a member of the EU. Which is it isn't and Romania is.

Gypsies have nothing to do with Romanian EU ascension. I don't see a reason to address that further.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 18):Actually I played the race card first but you chose to ignore it because you have totally misunderstood the issue at hand here.

You played the race card first? OK, then. Good for you, because tactics like that only scuttle your argument. You must be proud of yourself.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 19):
What about if in future Albania and Bosnia want to join? Both countries are clearly within the geographical limits of Europe, but both have a predominantly Muslim population.

I'm completely against it , as the Union is based on the Western - Christian way of being . Muslim countries don't have lost anything in the EU . The EU won't last very long if every country wants to join . It has to be based on commonalities and this commonalities are given between Germany - France, Austria , Spain even Poland but not with Bosnia of Turkey

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 21):I'm completely against it , as the Union is based on the Western - Christian way of being . Muslim countries don't have lost anything in the EU . The EU won't last very long if every country wants to join . It has to be based on commonalities and this commonalities are given between Germany - France, Austria , Spain even Poland but not with Bosnia of Turkey

I'm NOT a Christian, as is the majority of European population by now. The EU is NOT a christian club.

Albania and Bosnia are clearly European countries, within the accepted geographical boundaries of Europe (while the situation of Turkey, with a large part east of the Bosporus, can be argued about).