If you all think you know better then you should be the ones with the national franchise, right?

For $15,000, I will offer a "Little Happy Caesar Certified Dog Trainer" course.

You will receive a certificate stating you are a "Little Happy Caesar" trainer after, "10 days and a couple of two day follow ups". Wait a mintute, that's Schick Shadle Recovery Centers tag line.....need to come up with something more original..

03-15-2013, 03:54 PM

DarrinGreene

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul "Happy" Gilmore

For $15,000, I will offer a "Little Happy Caesar Certified Dog Trainer" course.

You will receive a certificate stating you are a "Little Happy Caesar" trainer after, "10 days and a couple of two day follow ups". Wait a mintute, that's Schick Shadle Recovery Centers tag line.....need to come up with something more original..

I wasn't talking to you Paul! LOL

I was addressing those who claim to have a better way.

I'm not defending Fred here, just making the point that until you know all the in's and outs of a successful method, you shouldn't criticize.

03-15-2013, 04:13 PM

BonMallari

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrinGreene

I wasn't talking to you Paul! LOL

I was addressing those who claim to have a better way.

I'm not defending Fred here, just making the point that until you know all the in's and outs of a successful method, you shouldn't criticize.

and therein lies the problem that plagued Fred and for that matter every other trainer here on the RTF...there is ALWAYS someone on here that KNOWS better or THINKS they know better, and then it gets to be a first class urinating match, resumes get requested,trophies and all age points are counted ,titles are thrust and the cycle begins.....and the biggest loser in the fray is the newbie or inexperienced trainer just looking for a hand

The thing I learned after getting to meet Fred was one had to divide Fred the trainer and Fred the entrepeneur, I knew that the trainer and I would NEVER see eye to eye so we discussed the dog business and other non threatening subjects...Fred was just trying to learn and understand the dog games because he saw it as a potential business opportunity, he was trying to see if the methods he knew could work in other applications, the man is no dummy, he has been around enough dogs of different breeds and temperments, but here on the RTF he runs into people that generally are breed specific and method specific...In his attempt to learn the ins and outs of the games he came across as blunt and challenging, and we all know how retriever people are when they get challenged....you might as well be calling them a cur or a junkyard dog

We here on the RTF as a whole are great at dispensing advice but horrible at absorbing it

03-15-2013, 04:30 PM

pheasantlab

While I do not know Fred personally, nor can I comment about his training, I do know how he conducted himself on this forum. It is easily searchable. I do know that I will never throw any money his direction solely based on the way he conducted himself on this forum. My opinion FWIW.

03-15-2013, 04:46 PM

Howard N

One thing that got me about Fred, is that he came across as a trainer, someone who said he could train dogs. I still remember the video of him running and handling at a NAHRA intermediate test. His dog was not quite trained to the intermediate level and his timing as a handler was bad. I thought it was a poor performance for a professional dog person.

I could never take him seriously as a retriever person, just another bull $h!t slinger.

Thought I'd add a PS later: I never had any problems with the way Fred used the collar. I believe it works and it's similar to the way Pete, Jamie the Pack Leader, Pat Nolan do; and the way the Dogtra obedience book that comes with their collars says to do it. It's not our mainstream Lardy method. Or the Smart Work method, Carr method, or Dobbs method either. But it works for some people and dogs. The more I can learn the better and that's a big reason I'm still on the RTF after all these years.

I'm not from Missouri but I still want someone to "show me" when they're touting their method. That video, and others, showed me that Fred didn't know what he was doing training and playing in my game. Anyone can BS, but like that signature line from someone here says: "The bull $h!t stops when the tailgate drops."

03-15-2013, 04:57 PM

squirrel hunter

IM NOT EVEN PRETENDING TO KNOW MORE, I just think that that's a whole lot of corrections, I was taught give the command if no response give the command again then burn them until they follow through with the command, Every dog is different, I was asking about sit means sit not trying to start a pissing match, I don't know nor have i ever talked to this man named Fred and i meant no disrespect to him, I have a friend who wanted to see what they are about, I said i would ask around, Nothing more than that,, I love working with dogs and there is a whole lot i don't know, But i will say i'm going to learn and i will be my own boss in the field, I have people bringing their labs to me for help. If people think i'm pretty good with dogs then that's their opinion, But i know i have a long way to go, And i'm eager to learn,

03-15-2013, 05:27 PM

Howard N

Hi Squirrel Hunter. I probably shouldn't be talking about the Sit Means Sit method of using the collar. But, I believe the collar is set so light that it isn't a correction, just kind of like an itch that the dog can only sorta feel. So it's not a burn or punishment of any kind, just a vague itch. I've had it explained to me but I've never seen anyone actually training a dog with that method in person.

I will say if Pete and Pat Nolan use something very similar, then it works. Just because I don't know how to do it doesn't mean it's not a viable training method. But, it didn't cross over to retriever work to well with Fred and the dog he was running in NAHRA then.

03-15-2013, 06:10 PM

DarrinGreene

My demo dog for the pet business is trained this way also Howard. I can't have a big reaction with a prospect client watching. I use a Dogtra and hide the control in my pocket most of the time. When I do re-enforce commands the client rarely notices. You might because you know the details but the client doesn't even see it. It's so subtle that all you get is compliance. The dog's ears may drop but that's about it.

03-15-2013, 06:28 PM

Howard N

I can't see it as bad if we get a politically correct collar method that is acceptable to the Molly Minivans of the world. To me it just has to work with most dogs and be humane. Heck, Wales and Australia might change their laws and allow collar training. :p

Ken, could this be the beginning of the end for your favorite training tool?

03-15-2013, 06:35 PM

featherqwest

Advise is to go train with good people who know obedience. The franchise thing is a joke. Same as a computer franchise I once purchased and dropped. It's always about the money and no quick solutions for any dog. I train with some very good obedience people right now. We are not using the EC right now because but going back to the old style of slip collar and learning hand and voice commands. Since we are on the subject does anyone clicker train their field dogs. I have found that this is a problem when you do into the field. I don't do it but the agility people insist on it??