Monday, October 27, 2008

Farage on LPUK

What about the new Libertarian Party? That is a threat to you. You have lost people to it.

[Shrugs]. Of course. People join organisations and they think that they are destined to lead these organisations and when it doesn't work out they seek pastures new. You get thwarted ambition.

Outside the three main parties you find this all the time. It tends to be people who have got a lot of time and the reason they have got a lot of time is that they are no use at anything else. They haven't got a proper job, they have never achieved a damn thing in their lives and they see joining a political party as a way of putting something on their headed paper. It's human nature.

When they find they don't do as well within UKIP as they ought to do, they are happy to go off somewhere else. You'll never stop that. We have suffered as a party from the angry old man syndrome—people with too much time on their hands and a wholly negative view of the world.

Hmmm, I wonder who he could be talking about. Nothing to do with your humble Devil standing for the UKIP NEC a few years ago, one would hope. Ah well, even if that is what Nigel is referring to, I really couldn't give a shit: I'll still happily have a pint with the man.

The fact is that the Libertarian Party will (hopefully) be something different from UKIP: the latter has always (and sometimes almost solely) existed in order to extricate Britain from the EU, and this is a very worthy cause—and the reason why I urge you to vote for them in the EU-elections.

It is a worthy cause because we cannot even contemplate the possibility of a more liberal society whilst an unelected bureaucracy makes so many of our laws. Most egregiously, once those laws are in place, they cannot be removed by subsequent governments: in this way, our membership of the EU contravenes a fundamental plank of our Constitution—that no government may bind its successor. This "rachet effect" that means that the EU gains more and more power—and relinquishes none.

But the problem with UKIP is that what binds all of the disparate wings (and there are many) of that party together is this one, single objective. It makes little difference that UKIP have developed a full manifesto when, should they achieve their objective, their party will fracture. In some ways, the development of the manifesto is in support of the main objective—that of leaving the EU—in order to make UKIP more credible as a party of government and thus more worthy of giving your vote to.

LPUK is different: our objective is a libertarian country and a tiny state. To be sure, this aim can never be attained whilst we are in the EU but it is not the leaving of the EU that is the reason for our existence: it is not a hatred of the EU that binds LPUK together (as it does UKIP) but a common belief that libertarianism is both the right moral and practical choice for this country.

Our manifesto has been put together to achieve that end, not simply to provide a incentive for people to vote for us that we may achieve another end altogether. Yes, we must leave the EU but ultimately that is not the endgame: it is just another fight along the way. And, should we ever leave, whilst UKIP shatters, the LPUK will merely be in a better place to achieve the libertarian state that we all believe in.

When that happens, of course, we will be happy to welcome Nigel and the other UKIP libertarians (such as this enterprising young chap) into LPUK...

Nigel, dear fellow, the aim of the Libertarian Party is to dismantle the apparatus of the state. Our membership have few delusions of grandeur, and even less interest in seeking power for its own sake. We're more than happy to leave the tawdry grubbing over privilege and lining of one's own pockets to those in the other UK political parties—yours included.

.... *Hmmm, I wonder who he could be talking about. Nothing to do with your humble Devil standing for the UKIP NEC a few years ago, one would hope. Ah well, even if that is what Nigel is referring to, I really couldn't give a shit: I'll still happily have a pint with the man."....

I know you know the man personally... And as successful a politician he is and no doubt very charming too...

But why would you consider an authoritarian such as Farage as a drinking buddy?..

Sorry dude, maybe I’m just too uptight about these things.. But I do believe your initial thoughts on his response were correct..

I don't doubt Farage's belief in freedom from the EU.. I just doubt his freedom from taxation and coercion from a local geographical point of view.. (ie UK wise)

In the utterly pointless sham elections for the EU, all I want to do is register my protest. UKIP should be the obvious choice, but I am looking to them to do more with the mandate they already have. I will still probably vote UKIP at the Euros.

Also, I won't be overly impressed if Nigel keeps on attacking the members of LPUK. It isn't a fight he needs to do and I question why he said what he said.

I always have said I will vote for the party that will do the most to get us out of the EU. On a national level, UKIP are very weak at the moment, hence I look at the LPUK to build a party I can support on that level.

UKIP still are the anti-EU vote for the Euros, but they have to watch out for the BNP, who are looking to grab that spot for themselves. Even though I dislike their policies and Socialist brand of Nationalism (nevermind their warped fixation with skin colour); there is little doubt they are a strong anti-establishment shout. In a pitiful waste of time such as the Euros, it could become a little too tempting to stick a finger up at the establishment, by voting them.

I won't, because I would hate to seem them get money for their cause, but others may.

"Nothing to do with your humble Devil standing for the UKIP NEC a few years ago, one would hope."No, probably referring to those with over-inflated egos like Kilroy Silk (which you don't have)...;)I thought UKIP was for the small state also but then no particular party can lay claim to anything original, it's just re-inventing the wheel.

Of course the dear old Tories love to play both ends which you can deduce from the questions asked. Like the BNP they want to have Nigel's head on a plate and are constantly trying to destabalise UKIP at every turn.The shit they post on Butcher's BNP forum is a classic example.This gets worse the bigger the threat from UKIP becomes.One thing that is noticeable over the past few months UKIP is getting its act together and I think they will pull off a big surprise in the European Elections next year despite the best efforts of all those sad turgid moles.