don - great job on the trading up article. certainly it defies the current convential thought that has the lions trading down. i wasn't a big believer in drafting a linebacker, but you made some excellent points throughout the article. very nice piece.

March 21st, 2005, 12:16 pm

theAlphaMale

Site Admin

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 1:25 amPosts: 4920Location: Hills of Auburn

I already really liked Derrick...he convinced it was certainly not enough. The question is...if you know that one guy in the draft is very likely to be the top guy at his position in the NFL for years to come do you get him? I would think if you knew how good Ray Lewis or the likes would be you would give up quite a bit to get him. That being said I never believe in a sure thing in regards to the draft but this guy sounds damn close.

Great article...thinking outside the box

_________________Regards, Alpha|Lionbacker.com \(^o^)/"I date this girl for two years and then the nagging starts: I wanna know your name..." - Mike Binder

Thanks guys. Personally... I don't think it's going to happen. And since I don't I'm praying he falls to us at 10. I don't know if all the recent Mock Drafts which have him going to us or have him available at our picking spot are a reason to be happy or be pissed because it seems like teasing and setting many fans up for a let down.

Anyway, the article was written with a few purposes... Sell DJ to people who don't like him, or just aren't high on him... and like what you said Alpha - setting a precedent for why DJ is the next superstar linebacker by comparing his college career with the present day superstar linebacker's college careers.

Ultimately, the most ambitious one is convincing the FO to do everything in their power to get this guy. It's a longshot, I know, but lionbacker, affords a medium which is both professional and highly visible. It's probably presumptuous... because you know they already have an extensive scouting system, and I know he's on Millen's radar already. Besides the Longhorns have been a deep and valuable well of talent that they've been drawing from for a few years now. It's highly unlikely they scoff at the University that has been so good to them.

Anyway, could you imagine if it really happens? Whoop... lionbacker looks like geniuses because they called it first. If it doesn't happen, then well it was just an interesting article with an alternative scenario.

Thanks guys. Personally... I don't think it's going to happen. And since I don't I'm praying he falls to us at 10. I don't know if all the recent Mock Drafts which have him going to us or have him available at our picking spot are a reason to be happy or be pissed because it seems like teasing and setting many fans up for a let down.

Anyway, the article was written with a few purposes... Sell DJ to people who don't like him, or just aren't high on him... and like what you said Alpha - setting a precedent for why DJ is the next superstar linebacker by comparing his college career with the present day superstar linebacker's college careers.

Ultimately, the most ambitious one is convincing the FO to do everything in their power to get this guy. It's a longshot, I know, but lionbacker, affords a medium which is both professional and highly visible. It's probably presumptuous... because you know they already have an extensive scouting system, and I know he's on Millen's radar already. Besides the Longhorns have been a deep and valuable well of talent that they've been drawing from for a few years now. It's highly unlikely they scoff at the University that has been so good to them.

Anyway, could you imagine if it really happens? Whoop... lionbacker looks like geniuses because they called it first. If it doesn't happen, then well it was just an interesting article with an alternative scenario.

Great article HB! Agree with your opinion of DJ, but can't see the Lion's trading up to #3. However, if he is still there at #6 then maybe they would explore the possibility. I just don't want him to still be on the board when #7 is picking. Waiting through that 15 minutes on draft day will be excruciating. And I would hate to have to face him twice a year.

March 21st, 2005, 4:49 pm

Fekko

Bubbles the Lion

Joined: January 19th, 2005, 6:40 pmPosts: 64Location: Lansing, MI

I agree, it was persuasive. I do like DJ a lot, but trading up to #3 seems--well, a bit risky. They could very well land their man, and still be in trouble with just a couple of key injuries (see the last three years for painful examples).

If the Lions were a superbowel contender needing 1 or 2 key players to put them over the top, then I would whole-heartedly agree. But let's face it, they have a talented core, but they still have very questionable depth. Why do you think N. England has been there the last few years? Depth!

It's the same blueprint that Joe Dumars follows. Have a lot of good to very good players, and good depth. It's a better plan than a couple of superstars, and limited talent backing them up.

I say if they have to trade up more than 3 spots, trade down or hope DJ falls to them (not likely). Either way, Millen is starting to make a believer out of me. I look for the FO to have another productive draft.

I would like us to get more depth too. WR and secodary are the positions in the most need.

Don, I really liked your article.

I think I can sum up the argument for getting him by saying that you wouldn't pass on a micheal jordan because you have a richard hamilton.

_________________"If he isn't the best football player, the best runner, that the Lord has ever made, then the Lord has yet to make one." Wayne Fontes on Barry.

March 21st, 2005, 8:36 pm

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10408Location: Where ever I'm at now

Don, I applaud you on your article. It was well written and well thought out. You made compelling arguments and certainly give food for thought. Even though the article I will write takes the opposite view point, I commend you for a job well done.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

If the Lions were a superbowel contender needing 1 or 2 key players to put them over the top, then I would whole-heartedly agree. But let's face it, they have a talented core, but they still have very questionable depth. Why do you think N. England has been there the last few years? Depth!

You make two case scenarios here.

1) Adding the key player to push a team over the top.
2) Adding depth to a solid team.

I see drafting DJ as satisfying both areas. Drafting DJ as a key player to a more or less complete team satisfied the first condition. It satisfies the 2nd area by subjugating Lewis and Davis into that depth role.

Now I can understand you probably mean you want more picks to spread around. Now a case can be made for a lack of depth at the WR position... but I see our depth as pretty good at other positions. I think the problem with our team is the injuries at the starting positions. No matter what team you are with whatever depth you have, the salary cap will always limit the quality of your depth. They are required to be stop gaps giving breathers to the starters or fill in for a couple of games... not come in and start for an entire season much like the unusual case we have in Detroit. At any rate we only have a 53 man roster... we can't be three deep with the number 2 players being starter quality at each position.

I understand the argument for more depth... but the issue is with our starters. What can you do about that?

I would like us to get more depth too. WR and secodary are the positions in the most need.

Don, I really liked your article.

I think I can sum up the argument for getting him by saying that you wouldn't pass on a micheal jordan because you have a richard hamilton.

Thanks bsand, that's a great analogy.

I guess the question is, how do we know Derrick Johnson will be the Michael Jordan of football? We don't, but after reading my article for the first time since I wrote it over a week ago... I'm surprised at how he matches up with the college production of premier LB's in the NFL now. And the most amazing thing to me is... he wasn't just a one tool linebacker like many of these NFL LB's were in college, he excelled at nearly everything he's done. And the thing that gets me, is why isn't there any more hype about him?

I suppose, people are really holding the negatives against him. Otherwise... teams are holding their hand very close to themselves.

Don, I applaud you on your article. It was well written and well thought out. You made compelling arguments and certainly give food for thought. Even though the article I will write takes the opposite view point, I commend you for a job well done.

Thanks mike. I guess that's your article on the top 10 LB's. I understand your take on the Lions LB situation [we don't need any] and you still gave my article a chance. Thanks. Guess what though. I agree wholeheartedly with you. We don't need a Linebacker. We will be fine with our corps. So my heart won't be broken too much if we don't land DJ. I even see the merits of trading down, taking a DE, or reaching for Barron. I like them... but I like them less.

But as I've written... I think DJ is a can't miss playmaker. Like bsand says, pass on Jordan because you have Hamilton?

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10408Location: Where ever I'm at now

Honolulu_Blue wrote:

But as I've written... I think DJ is a can't miss playmaker. Like bsand says, pass on Jordan because you have Hamilton?

Didn't two teams pass on Jordan though?

I understand what you mean. If Lehman could play the middle like he was drafted to, then I would say jump all over DJ. But I don't see Lehman being effective there, and that's the problem. I have Derrick Johnson listed at position number one on my personal player big board. Without question, he is the most pro ready and talented player in this draft. Which is exactly why I hope he does fall to the Lions, because it's a win-win situation at that point. Either the Lions take him and add some tremendous playmaking ability, or they trade him and are likely to get good return for him.

Once again Don, excellent article.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

March 22nd, 2005, 7:55 am

Yorick

ST Coordinator – Joe Marciano

Joined: March 22nd, 2005, 8:42 pmPosts: 3811

I like DJ as a player and would probably draft him at #10. That is something completely different from trading up for him. The first question revolves around whether the player is a good prospect. The second question concerns whether giving up picks to get him represents good value.

As to the first question I think DJ looks pretty solid. There are not too many negatives. He could be a Brooks type player and with Bailey's knee adding depth there would not bother me at all. Many people did not want to draft Suggs because we had Porcher and Kalimba Edwards! Obviously, from the perspective of long term investor getting the stud at a position where you have starters right now does not bother you. There are questions about his playmaking ability, size, and that such. Also the fact that we already have two mobile nickel linebackers diminishes his value for us. Still, over all, I would take him at #10, although in terms of playmaking defensive players pac man and pollack would merit consideration.

As to the second question, I see very little justification for trading up. First, DJ has a good chance of sliding to us. Second, you have to look at the supply situation. Most of the top 10 is leaning offense. There are four legitimate defensive playmakers in DJ, pacman, pollack, and Erasmus James. One of those guys will fall to you for sure and DE is a much bigger need that LB. Neither would I say that DJ is heads and shoulders above those other guys. Third, trading up means paying more money. We are in an up cycle and can no longer afford to overpay or we will be making tough choices with our nucleus.

I suspect the most likely trade scenario would be another team in the top 16 wishing to get one of those defensive playmakers, like pacman or DJ if they were available. We could then trade down and draft the best player available.

Anyway, I can understand your viewpoint... and it boils down to a difference of opinion regarding DJ.

With the sheer number of offensive players available... and limited supply of defensive players, the probability for an offensive top 10 player is higher than a defensive player. I think what you are talking about is demand rather than supply, when you mention the top 10 teams leaning towards offense. I suppose it's debateable and think each team can make a case for DJ.

I disagree that DE is a need.

And finally the ultimate premise... I actually do believe that DJ is heads and shoulders above the other defensive prospects. This is a deep class of DE's but hardly containing superstar material. The corners are more talented... but that is definitely not a need. The class of DT's are all outside of the top 10. Same can be said of the weak class of safeties. And the distance between DJ and the next best LB is huge.

I think that sums up the difference of perspective nicely. You seem to have him penciled in as a Derrick Brooks or Ray Lewis type player. While I could see him developing into that I am not sure he has the psychological make-up, drive, and nastiness that separates a great athlete from a playmaker. Also I only put him a inch above the other top 3 defensive playmakers.

The one thing I do not follow is why DE is not a "need"? Sure, we have guys like Redding that can start there, but would a legitimate twelve sack guy have a monumental supplementary effect on the entire defense: sack and hurries creating sacks and hurries for others, forcing turn-overs, forcing more third and longs? The way I see it a great DE forces the offense to account for him on every play and it this reverberates through all three layers of your defense making other players more effective. Every game we won last year the defense was getting in the opposing QBs face. When we did not they churned out yards and TDs. Even if DJ turns out to be a Ray Lewis type player cannot have as much residual impact in my book, at least over the short and intermediate term.

Also, thanks for inviting me! A casual glance reveals an absence of the BS that some seem bent on making their mantra!