Chiming in from Seattle. I can point to a few things. The attitude problem of " I did it first" has fractured any scene we might have had around here Seattle). So we dont have events where anyone can feel like they could attend. Its all about private parties that have selective invites to purposely keep the people that the "original Tcers" dont approve of out. As far as other events go if you're not in the thick of the socal scene then you dont seem to count for much. I still come to TC every day to see whats going on but as time goes by I see that when I do post something its like posting to a grave yard. So I spend alot more time over on facebook, I sell more art over there, I know what kind of an audience I have as opposed to here where EVERYONE is just "lurking" without bothering to say anything. I have a lot more interaction with tiki people there than on here. Its like TC and some of the "old timers" have set up an atmosphere of exclusion and made it uncomfortable for people to feel like they can be themselves.

All that being said, I try to behave myself here, I try to add content in the way of stuff I make, and I still have some good friends I've made from TC.
I've been doing tiki art since BEFORE TC, since before Tiki News even. and I still feel kinda like an outsider. ( not an attitude , a fact) I often find myself as the person who has the completely out in left field viewpoint from everyone else around me. Which I believe is still a valid wiewpoint.

" and I still feel kinda like an outsider. ( not an attitude , a fact) I often find myself as the person who has the completely out in left field viewpoint from everyone else around me. Which I believe is still a valid wiewpoint"

This is how I feel here as well, Heck I feel that way everywhere.
But when we have gone to events it's like sooo clicky, if you are not way in
you are left way out.
Myself I always liked to talk to the people that looked like they felt left out.
Have met some good people that way. Bill Sapp was one of them.
But then I have never been good at being in groups like to work alone, less witnesses.So take the good with the bad.
Lots of my lights go to people who don't know about Tikicentral via ebay.

On 2012-10-07 09:42, Sophista-tiki wrote:Chiming in from Seattle. I can point to a few things. The attitude problem of " I did it first" has fractured any scene we might have had around here Seattle). So we dont have events where anyone can feel like they could attend. Its all about private parties that have selective invites to purposely keep the people that the "original Tcers" dont approve of out. As far as other events go if you're not in the thick of the socal scene then you dont seem to count for much. I still come to TC every day to see whats going on but as time goes by I see that when I do post something its like posting to a grave yard. So I spend alot more time over on facebook, I sell more art over there, I know what kind of an audience I have as opposed to here where EVERYONE is just "lurking" without bothering to say anything. I have a lot more interaction with tiki people there than on here. Its like TC and some of the "old timers" have set up an atmosphere of exclusion and made it uncomfortable for people to feel like they can be themselves.

All that being said, I try to behave myself here, I try to add content in the way of stuff I make, and I still have some good friends I've made from TC.
I've been doing tiki art since BEFORE TC, since before Tiki News even. and I still feel kinda like an outsider. ( not an attitude , a fact) I often find myself as the person who has the completely out in left field viewpoint from everyone else around me. Which I believe is still a valid wiewpoint.

What I like most about events is meeting new people. When I was in charge of Hukilau, it was my intent to bring people together in ways that facilitated meeting and getting to know each other. When I had the idea for a seminar event that was more like a Con, I had in mind that there would be dozens of small "events" that every type of enthusiast could find fellows to talk with, peer-to-peer. Unfortunately, my idea was turned into a few events where a single person on stage talks to a group. Then I suggested that all such seminars be followed by a meet and greet where people can talk to the speaker and interact with them and each other. That got translated into a book signing... I think people don't get it. I quit trying to share ideas.

I hear it from all over. Events are getting bigger, but maybe not better when you can't really hang out and talk and meet all these people who are like-minded. It seems to end up being accidental.

Hukilau in the early days was great as a mixer. It got bigger and we knew less of the attendees and more stuff got scheduled. Coon Tiki was great because we had 25 people in a remote cabin who all hung out together and got to know each other. That was more of a success in many ways.

Events are a Catch-22. You want more people always, but you then need to plan small activities for them.

This is a category on TC that i very, very rarely look at and tonight i did and this thread caught my eye. Like any 'scene', those that were there in the beginning, i think, always feel like they have a sense of entitlement because they were there first, and that is understandable. It's like listening to a band before they become popular and then when they do they have 'sold out'.

However, without new blood showing interest that 'scene' is going to get stale very quickly and die a slow death. It needs new blood to keep it interesting. A band is not going to survive playing to the same 10 people over and over again. Having said that it is like anything, once something becomes mainstream, or popular, it loses its uniqueness, and those that were there 'first' lose interest because it has become watered down.

I made my first pilgrimage to Tiki Oasis this year which was #12. I had an absolutely awesome time. Had i attended the first one, two, three or four, obvioulsy it would have been extremely different. Would i have enjoyed it more or less i cannot answer. Those that were there from the start no doubt have seen things change, and whether that is for good or bad, only they can say. If they are still here then you can only assume it's for the good. For me, having that many people attend only gave me the opportunity to meet more like-minded people. Everyone most likely had a different reason for being there but that is perfectly fine with me.

To me, Tiki and Tiki culture is what YOU want to take from it. Although i only became a member here in 2007 i also 'lurked' for a few years. So i have personally had an interest in Tiki for about 8 years now. Whilst i certainly haven't been around for as long as a lot of people here, 8 years is a reasonably long time (for anything), enough to 'think' that you have seen it all and maybe lose interest, or at least, not have the passion you once had.

So to go back to Swanky's quote, life happens. We all move on, and although i still enjoy the music i listened to in my youth it's not exactly what i play every day, but it's still nice to go back to every now and again, although the music that the kids listen to these days sucks compared to my day.

I think we should consider the possibility that the fault lies with people who are drawn to tiki/vintage for the wrong reasons. I think most of us who are interested for the right reasons will, sooner or later, have a moment where it becomes unavoidably clear that there are bums on the bandwagon. For me it was the Robert Drasnin performance at Hukilau 2005, where the music's quieter passages were drowned out by the chatter of the ill-mannered drunkards in attendance. (We don't know if they were ALL F.O.M. members, but chances are there were more than a few. It's a certainty that they were all yankees.)

It became obvious, then & there, that the tiki revival had attracted some number (we don't know the size of the number, but hopefully it's a minority) of people who were more interested in hearing themselves talk than in hearing the musical resurrection of rare genius. They were there for the party, not for the art. They were under the misguided opinion that what they had to say was more relevant than what Drasnin's talent and orchestra had to say. They were wrong, and should've been somewhere else.

Anyone who's seen the TLC show "Housewives with Beehives" has had a glimpse of the same phenomenon. The cattiness and utter commonality of the vintage lifestylers robs their good taste of whatever virtue it ever had. Just because someone has the same taste in decor as you, that doesn't mean they're someone you'd ever want inside your home. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth, but it's a good lesson to learn because it reflects the larger reality of human nature.

Drasnin was too much of a gentleman to stop his performance until the noise dissipated, but I'm not sure the drunken dolts learned anything from his courtesy. If we don't tell the louts to shut the fuck up, how else are they ever going to learn that they should? The important thing, of course, is not to cede the party to the tacky and misguided: that's probably what did in the original Tiki movement in the first place. We should all be grateful that Sven, Swank, et al still grace us with their company. If we can manage to keep our mouths shut long enough to learn something from those who came before, there's always hope for our little flagging campfire.

great post, I often am at Tiki events thinking,
why am I here?
do I like hanging around with some of these people?
are they into tiki for the right reasons?
or same reasons I am?

and more and more often the answer is no.
just a few months from my posts in this thread,
I am distancing myself from the "party" crowd.
and delving into what tiki is for me, at home.

Now I know the answer to the question, where have all the early tiki revivalists gone,
away from the modern one.

A similar situation to your Robert Drasnin story above.
a couple years ago, The Huntington Cads(with SHAG)had a reunion at Tiki Oasis.
I was really trying to listen to, and soak in this amazing performance.
But many attendees hanging out were just blabbering away.

I stopped them and said, hey look at the stage and see the guy with blonde hair
on the right. Do you recognize him? they said no. I said it's Shag, and this is a rare reunion of 1 of the 3 bands he was in, in the 90s.
They said, wow, we had no idea he played muisc.
and within' 2 min, were blabbering away again.
Somebody give me a gun, to shoot them, or myself.

I don't know what quantifies people as "Old School" or "Newbies" and I don't care. My level of involvement has dropped due to various reasons. Life, family activities, cost at Tiki events, egos, disrespect etc. I couldn't care less about how long someone has been into Tiki. I do care if they are kind, earnest, respectful, open-minded and willing to learn. Being "into Tiki" and being INVOLVED in Tiki are very different. Some of my favorite people I have ever become friends with are involved in this subculture. I am very grateful for that. I am NOT impressed by people (old school or new) who feel the need to put others down to pick themselves up.
Aside from personality issues, I would suggest that the shear repetition of certain arguments has gotten unbearable. How many times must this revival be defined and redefined? How many times will an argument erupt because a topic has already been covered in another post somewhere? How many times will we watch as a very simple and pure subculture will be directed and manipulated by peoples political or religious views?
I, for one, intend to stay involved in the Tiki scene. I intend to remain friends with the people I respect and love here. I am open to new friends and ideas. I also have learned to turn away from the people who treat this scene like a big high-five-date-rape-brotard-frat party. People have to realize that discovering this place can be nothing less than magical. But if you think everyone here has just been waiting around for your 'Oh So Impressive Arrival and All Of Your Amazing Talents', think again. I love new talent coming in. We were all there at some point. Many of the newer artists have really impressed and inspired me. Those who have withstood the test of Tiki time, in my opinion, have been humble, caring and joyous to be around.
I guess it comes down to figuring out WHY you are into Tiki and not Who you think you are. Does that make sense?
This whole rant may even be total b.s.
Maybe I've just stopped posting as much because I've gotten older and can't keep up anymore.
Peace with every step.

"I also have learned to turn away from the people who treat this scene like a big high-five-date-rape-brotard-frat party"

HA! You hit the nail on the head with this!
Funny thing is these people with be the first to
get all pissed about Jimmy buffet or frat boys.
Then yak all night about having sex with a goat.
True story.
I thought it was just an "Ohio thing"

I was laughing only because it is so true
I was talking with a couple of old school TCers this weekend
and the consensus was that many of the original members did fall into
a sense of entitlement and exclusivity, very much like the old Swing scene in the 90s

While I am fairly rigid on what Tiki is, I sure as hell don't think it should be closed to anyone
and we do our best to welcome anyone who shows up to any Tiki events we throw or attend
in our area, because for me Tiki is all about the social aspects of it anyway.

But I do get all crazy when I hear "Jimmy Buffett" in an old school Tiki Bar!
Don's has karaoke in the Dagger bar on the weekends, why do they do this during Tiki events, I can not fathom!
as it scares the Tiki crowd out of the bar, I will leave it at the "karaoke crowd" fears me.....and they should.

I just saw this thread because I don't check out the Ohana Forum very often (even though I invented the Ohana forum!) (I suggested the idea because I didn't like looking at all the Happy Birthday So-N-So-Tiki!!! posts in the main forum. Yes, as some of you have always thought...I'm a bastard!) (I also hate the word ohana unless it's being used in Hawaii for Hawaiian things!) (Again; I'm a bastard!)

"So many of the original Tiki Central members don't post anymore or show up at events these days, What happened to them?
What are they doing today & why have they forsaken Tiki?"

The former active members from Seattle that I know haven't "forsaken Tiki" they just lost interest in Tiki Central. That mostly seems to have been due to various spats and blowups.

Seattle way back when had a few public events the came about because of Tiki Central but they proved to be a real hassle to organize and sort of expensive. And some people had issues with others, that's part of being human. (Oh! I just got the double meaning of the title of the fun BBC series Being Human!) Fortunately for me I've managed to stay on decent terms with Seattle TCers (despite the fact that I'm a bastard). Or at least they all pretend we're on good terms. Pert near everyone I know and interact with (by which I mean drink with) in Seattle and Portland, and 97.3% of everyone I know on Facebook (where I have over 100,000 friends) I know directly or indirectly because of Tiki Central. Thanks, Hanford, wherever you are!

There are a lot of people who've stormed out of Tiki Central that I still don't miss. One I've actually got to know via Facebook and it turns out he/she/it is the really cool and funny guy/gal/thing everyone had always said he/she/it was even though I found him/her/it to be a complete jerk/ass/moron when he/she/it posted on Tiki Central. (No, I'm not talking about myself, I'm a complete bastard. Please pay attention.)

And I've spoke with other Tiki artists besides the incredibly talented Sophista-tiki and they agree with what she wrote above: They get far more interaction and delicious sales through Facebook than they ever did on Tiki Central. Why is that? Who the hell knows! Find your own answers. I have an episode of Sherlock Holmes to go watch.

Even though I got into Tiki in mid 90s.
I didn't sign up to TC until 2004

In the few months since I have posted in this thread.
I have cut way back on going to tiki events.
1. I was outta work for awhile, now I'm working but limited income.
2. My old truck died, and had to buy a new one,
so my extra spending money is waaaay less that before.
and the tiki scene costs money.
3. I have cut way back on my drinking for health reasons.
I am getting pretty big, and the extra calories, dont help.
and drinking booze(even 1 beer or tiki drink) makes me feel really crappy the
next day.
4. Losing a friend to cancer and other internal issues.
all brought on by drinking way to much has turned me off to drinking also.

"But I do get all crazy when I hear "Jimmy Buffett" in an old school Tiki Bar!"

True, but I've heard worse things in a tiki bar.
I'm 52, so I'm 10 to 15 years older than lots of the tiki pepole
and this reads more mello I guess.
Had my wild years thats for sure.
But can we all agree that one, MAYBE two WooHoos yelled out per night, max.
Unless you won the lottery, Then WooHoo like a loon.
But tiki I thought was a kinda cool low key lounge thing.
There is / was talk of a Starwars night at the Tiki bar here put on by the
bar and a local group.
WTF? When the heck did Starwars become Tiki?
At least Jimmy Buffet is closer to tiki than Fn Legos, Starwars and pie.(PS I'm not a parrothead)
I would go for Rockford files night though, that would be cool.
But I don't collect Jim Rockford dolls though, that would be creepy.
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BTD: I didn't know all that about you, sorry to hear that. My condolences about the friend, and the health. I didn't realize the big in your name meant big. I understand though, as I've cut down a lot myself. When your liver looks 30 years old than you, maybe you're doing something wrong. And sometimes that means cutting certain people out of your life, who turns out weren't that good of friends in the first place. Here's to hoping your health improves, along with mine.

Skip: Further proof that Rockford is more tiki than Star Wars:

Though if you're a fan of the show, I'm guessing you saw that episode.

Swanky: Coon tiki!?!? Although a cabin in the woods is about the least "tiki" thing I can think of, I know from personal experience that a weekend in a cabin with a good group of friends, even a large one, can be one hell of a time. Sounds like it was a lot of fun.

White Devil: That sounds like a shitty experience. I'm glad I wasn't there. I can tell you that a lot was ruined for me at my first Tiki Oasis last year because of people who didn't give two shits about what was going on. Like being forced to leave on my first visit to the Bali Hai, while Tikiyaki was playing, and without having seen the second floor. But it was the random strangers who were really great people that I had never met before in my life that made it an awesome experience.

In defense of drunkards: Even the most reverent of tikiphiles can get a little too tipsy on occasion, when the drinks sneak up on you. So, if/when I meet any of you out there at an event, which I've traveled quite a distance to come to, as I'm the only one that hosts anything within 100 miles of me (with the exception of a few home parties), please excuse me if I'm a little tipsy. I'm loud when I'm sober, so it's not the booze, it's just me laughing and enjoying the moment. And feel free to say hi, I love making new friends, meeting new people, and just having a great time.