Plato theorized that democracies, as they matured, evolved into oligarchies or plutocracies. We are witnessing exactly that.

When the new political election funding laws came into effect, the U. S. democratic system became an oligarchy or plutocracy. Billionaires are now buying political candidates and are in fact buying the leadership of the nation. They are now the power behind the throne and control the government and thus the people. Now, instead of working 9 to 5, Americans are working 24/7.

When did the U. S. devolve from the leading democracy of the West, to a tyranny up for sale?

I seem to recall an old joke. There are four kinds of politicians: stupid or intelligent and honest or dishonest. The honest, intelligent ones are the best for their constituents but they seldom get elected. Stupid honest ones may get elected but are useless. The Intelligent, dishonest ones are smart enough to skim off a great deal for themselves but be sure their constituents get enough that they are satisfied. The dishonest, stupid ones skim off as much as they can upseting their constituents and being either voted out of office or convicted.

We have moved into an oligarchy in which the wealthy have bought all the available politicians. The ones who are available are the dishonest ones, and the intelligent ones are being replaced with stupid ones. I predict that the wealthy will continue draining value from the 99% until people will be so destitute that they revolt and we have catastrophic change of government, much as been happening in the middle east.

I seem to recall an old joke. There are four kinds of politicians: stupid or intelligent and honest or dishonest. The honest, intelligent ones are the best for their constituents but they seldom get elected. Stupid honest ones may get elected but are useless. The Intelligent, dishonest ones are smart enough to skim off a great deal for themselves but be sure their constituents get enough that they are satisfied. The dishonest, stupid ones skim off as much as they can upseting their constituents and being either voted out of office or convicted.

We have moved into an oligarchy in which the wealthy have bought all the available politicians. The ones who are available are the dishonest ones, and the intelligent ones are being replaced with stupid ones. I predict that the wealthy will continue draining value from the 99% until people will be so destitute that they revolt and we have catastrophic change of government, much as been happening in the middle east.

I read somewhere recently (wish I had saved the link) that something like 90% of the races for US Senate over the past 20 years have gone to the candidate who had raised the most money. That’s just disgraceful. Not only because it gives all the power to those with the money, but because it forces even honest politicians to divert far too much attention from governing to fundraising.

I have a modest proposal. Let’s just skip the elections. Give the seat to the highest bidder. Instead of wasting the money on media buys and campaign staffs, they could just write a check to the treasury. We would still have crooks in office but at least we’d have balanced budgets.

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Free in Kentucky—Humanist
“I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it.”—Edith Sitwell

I read somewhere recently (wish I had saved the link) that something like 90% of the races for US Senate over the past 20 years have gone to the candidate who had raised the most money. That’s just disgraceful. Not only because it gives all the power to those with the money, but because it forces even honest politicians to divert far too much attention from governing to fundraising.

I have a modest proposal. Let’s just skip the elections. Give the seat to the highest bidder. Instead of wasting the money on media buys and campaign staffs, they could just write a check to the treasury. We would still have crooks in office but at least we’d have balanced budgets.

When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.” Ben Franklin.

Unfortunately, Ben we’ve been doing that since the Republic was born. Campaign contributions began after the Great Man (G. Washington) left office and the political party system was kick started over constitutional interpretation. Each party had it’s own newspapers to promote its ideals and candidates to carry them out. Ex. the Adams v. Jefferson fight. After that it was all down hill from there. How about we dump the electoral college (not needed anymore) and go straight election, and limit the amount of campaign dollars to even the field. We might even have another log cabin president.

It might be worth trying an alternative voting system, as in Australia, where voters list candidates in order of preference and if your initial choice looses your vote is given to your next choice. Then a vote for an unpopular or more extreme party is not equivalent to voting against your own interests. (Oh, wait, that might weaken our enormously effective two party system.)

Does anyone on this forum live with this system? How does it work out? I fear it’s, (pitifully), a little complicated for many U.S. citizens to understand.

It might be worth trying an alternative voting system, as in Australia, where voters list candidates in order of preference and if your initial choice looses your vote is given to your next choice. Then a vote for an unpopular or more extreme party is not equivalent to voting against your own interests. (Oh, wait, that might weaken our enormously effective two party system.)

I like that idea. It is used in some local elections in the U.S. If we did that, eliminate the electoral college, and seriously reform campaign finance, we might have a shot at restoring some semblance of democracy. Which means that in the current climate, such radical reforms have about the same chance as Rick Santorum dropping out of the presidential race and starting a write-in campaign to elect Hemant Mehta as president.

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Free in Kentucky—Humanist
“I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it.”—Edith Sitwell

I read somewhere recently (wish I had saved the link) that something like 90% of the races for US Senate over the past 20 years have gone to the candidate who had raised the most money. That’s just disgraceful. Not only because it gives all the power to those with the money, but because it forces even honest politicians to divert far too much attention from governing to fundraising.

I have a modest proposal. Let’s just skip the elections. Give the seat to the highest bidder. Instead of wasting the money on media buys and campaign staffs, they could just write a check to the treasury. We would still have crooks in office but at least we’d have balanced budgets.

That’s actually a good idea.

Occam made a similar suggestion, in jest, on another thread, some time ago. Things are bad when suggestions made satirically seem to actually be the best solutions.

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As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

It might be worth trying an alternative voting system, as in Australia, where voters list candidates in order of preference and if your initial choice looses your vote is given to your next choice. Then a vote for an unpopular or more extreme party is not equivalent to voting against your own interests. (Oh, wait, that might weaken our enormously effective two party system.)

Does anyone on this forum live with this system? How does it work out? I fear it’s, (pitifully), a little complicated for many U.S. citizens to understand.

I questioned an Australian visitor once about their political system. At the time, as I recall, it seemed to be a fairer and more democratic system than ours.

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As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

It would take nothing less than a coup d’état to effectively accomplish any of the above…

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Don’t get set into one form, adapt it and build your own, and let it grow, be like water. Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put water into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.