Mark_V.: "Steven 2: So if Satan controls all thing on the earth, that would mean he is bringing sinners to Christ, now that is something. He must be controlling nature, the births of human beings and even their pre-appointed deaths. I believe before you crown Satan as Lord of all things,..."

You should read the book of Job and see how Satan can wreak havoc upon the world.

Twisting my words again? I did not say he was the lord of ALL things. I said he is the "lord" of the world. God only is lord of ALL things.

Steven, you say," What's more imporatant worldly knowledge or spiritual knowledge?" You said the Holy Spirit gives you knowledge. Then you made a quote that Satan is in control of all things even though God has Ultimate control. How can God have Ultimate control of all things, if Satan has control of all things? God never changes His nature, character or attributes. How do you explain that? How can you explain that if Satan has control of all things, he has control of all believers. How do you explain that? I have to conclude that the spirit giving you knowledge is not the Holy Spirit. You have the wrong god. The wrong spirit giving you knowledge.

The understanding of the Gospel of Christ Jesus. It has set us free form the sin Adam did. Adam's sin cursed all mankind. Jesus broke that curse. The blood of Lamb of God has made it so we can enter his presents, in our flesh and praise him with out the penalty of death on us. This is the gift of the New Covenant. If you have courage to stand in Christ Jesus. This is not zeal as you suppose. This is just the Gospel given and given, and given, and given,..... Jesus asked "How long is it going to take for you to understand what I have given to you?" "YOU"

Steven 2: So if Satan controls all thing on the earth, that would mean he is bringing sinners to Christ, now that is something. He must be controlling nature, the births of human beings and even their pre-appointed deaths. I believe before you crown Satan as Lord of all things, and before you make comments like you do, you should first study who God is. Then you will know who is Lord of all things.

\\markv, my beliefs are the same as elders. we are of like mind in every way. you think that is a bad thing? well, brother, we are on target with doctrine. you are in left field.---shira4368 on 10/19/13\\

ARe you?

What if your elders' beliefs are wrong? I'm willing to guess they are in many things.

And Jesus Himself said, "If the blind lead the blind, they both fall into the ditch."

Cluny, your worldly pride is showing - again. You want people to know how smart you are. Having worldly knowedge will not get you into heaven. The people whose English is not as perfect as yours will most likely end up in heaven than you.

I'm California state certified to teach college and have taught college for three years. During those three years I had four students having a high school diploma who wrote phonetically (nif as knife). One such student was a devout christian. Will she go to heaven or hell because of her poor English skills?

Besides, where in the bible does it say one must have perfect knowledge of English to enter heaven? What's more imporatant worldly knowledge or spiritual knowledge?

Samuel, you say,"But Calvinism does not. A person who cannot choose cannot be responsible for choosing."First, you know that all are condemned already without Christ right? In life they all make choices, and God judges their choices right? Unbelievers are spiritually dead to God. They never seek after God. why? Because they are dead in sin, children of wrath, under the spirit of the power of the air, they do not believe or have faith in Christ right? How can they choose what they do not have faith in? Only those who believe and have faith already open their arms for Christ. Why? Because they believe in Him. Believing in Christ is the work of God. Without that work of God descendants of Adam remain condemned.

I agree with everything you wrote on this. But Calvinism does not. A person who cannot choose cannot be responsible for choosing. It is like saying a Baby should be punished for going to the Bathroom if there is no choice.

If the word of God died and went to hell for the hole world that covers all, it is for who so ever, our job as believers is to call our brothers out of darkness not chase them in to it. Or to say it is not my job to tell them. God will let them know if he wants them saved, that is sick thinking. You have the word in you and yet you don't believe it can do what Jesus said it could do, if you would only believe it. The word is SHARPER than a two edged sword. If spoken in love, not in judgment, the things it will cut off peoples life right in front of you. That is the God I serve.

Samuel, what a story you told. Lets look at that. All descendants of Adam are heading to hell. They are under the curse. They are born sinners. They are all separated from God. Yet the wrath of God comes upon them for they suppress the truth in unrighteousness, so they are guilty because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. "So they are without excuse, because although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful.

Say a Billionare goes to an orphange and can adopt all the children. But this Billionare is the one who put the Children in the orphange. He then arbitraly chooses some but then tells the other orphans you can never be adopted because I won't let you be adopted.

Would that be fair? That is what Limited atonement and total depravity in Calvanism does. The doctrine of hell in fact says that after leaving the orphange. The doors are locked and the Building is set of fire to torture the children left there for all eternity. How fair is that?

Shira, Elders knowledge of the Word is bad. You like it, because it conforms to what you already believed. You say,"markv, if you are preaching that Christ died for a few and send many to hell, you are preaching a false salvation." I have never said such a thing. You guys keep saying that. When a person wants to adopt a child and goes to an orphanage, they choose who they want, they pick them for some reason or another right? and the rest they leave them there. Is that fair? That is what God does, He picks His own, and the rest He leaves them in the condition they are in. He does nothing wrong to them. But you say its not fair, you believe God is obligated to pick all. No one deserves to be picked, we are all sinners.

Shira 2: you also said,"I would not want to be in your shoes when Jesus returns to gather His own"you will want to be in my shoes when Jesus returns to gather His own. But it will be too late because you never trusted God for your salvation, you put your faith in your own free will. Your own works, not the works of God. "then they said to Him, What shall we do that we may work the works of God? Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent" (John 6:28,29).

So markv all those people "Jesus" healed in the bible were just healed spiritually? All those demons Jesus cast out of people really did not happen? So the word you believe in only heals you spiritually. Well if I'm healed spiritually, the rest is healed cause the flesh is subject to the spirit not the spirit subject to the flesh. So the word "Jesus" heals all. spirit, soul, and body.

markv, if you are preaching that Christ died for a few and send many to hell, you are preaching a false salvation. I would not want to be in your shoes when Jesus returns to gather His own. the reason I became friends with elder and his sweet wife is because of his knowledge on the Word of God.

Shira, your disappointed I do not agree with your interpretations or Elders. I have preached the gospel many times, when I do people get upset, walk away, or say some nasty stuff to me. But there is always a few who want to know and they listen, and ask questions. Your one of those who gets angry and offended. You have been taught different, and so you fight with all you got. You say my shell is hard, but it is your shell that is hard. You don't want to hear the truth. God says salvation with man is impossible, you say not true, man can exercise his own free will and gain salvation. God says, the preaching of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, you say it is not true. They can listen and believe with their own free will.

Bryan, you now say." Never said I cured anybody, But the Jesus who is in me cures who so ever. By his strips we are healed. What was the first words Jesus said? Luke 4:18, maybe that is not in your bible"My Bible has Luke 4:18) and it does not say you heal the sick. In fact it is speaking of Jesus Christ. "He (God) sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind." In the context, Jesus was sent by the Father when He arrived. It is not talking about you. I read it, it is not speaking of us. Jesus was reading from a book (v. 20). By His strips we are healed, spiritually. From the death we are in.

Your funny markv seg cluny, tag team of disbelief. Never said I cured anybody, But the Jesus who is in me cures who so ever. By his strips we are healed. What was the first words Jesus said? Luke 4:18, maybe that is not in your bible, reconciled back to God, redeemed, The same Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead life in me, Great is he that is in me than he who is in the world, Are those in your bible? You use your gifts from God to insult the gifts he give to who so ever? You fight to save your religion, were the Gospel just sets people free. No fighting needed Thank you Jesus. If you have ears to hear you will hear, "Who the Son sets free is free indeed".

shira, you were the one who said that someone was unable to interpret scripture. Why is it any worse for someone else (namely me) to say the same thing about you?

As I remember from my Baptist days, we were taught that everyone had the right to interpret scripture for himself (a principle the Bible itself rejects). Woe betide you, however, if your interpretation differed markedly from those around you.

And I agree, bryan don't let him rattle you.You just keep reading (and reading and reading) the Word..Until you understand it!

Mark gave you Mat 5:45. Ill give you Mat_5:36.Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.

I could say:But I understand him, the boy seems to have some like seeing or memory problem.I mean really the boy cant even remember a simply thing, like a name!How can he be expected to retain scripture?But, that would be cold and insensitive.Right son?

markv, you are really a piece of work. this is to bryan, please ignore markv, he cannot interpret scripture. he is so high above others because God has chosen him as one of the elect. markv really believes God created some for hell and he won't see the truth. elder has sent him scripture and I have and several including kathr. his shell is very hard. no one can get thru to him. you, markv, should take your own advice. I have seen you contradict yourself in the same sentence. bryan, don't let him rattle you. you just keep reading the Word..

Shira, you should stop arguing against the Grace of God. It will not help you in the end.

Bryan, I did not ask you if you prayed at the hospitals, I asked you how many people have your cured and why not cure the sick at the hospitals? If you have that power, just visit them, touch them as you say and they should be cured. You would actually stop sin. people get sick because people are destined to die and then the Judgment. They die because of sin. Sin brought death. yes, everything is freely given by God to all human beings. The rain falls on the just and the unjust. Some of the unjust live better the Christians. When you learn how to interpret a parable, give us the parable and the answer, so we can check it with Scripture.

Question is How many hospital have I been kicked out of for praying for people? A few. The Question is still the same are you not a child of God, is Jesus in you or not? Do you believe Jesus is the same yesterday, and today, and forever? What was the first thing Jesus said,"LUKE4:18", what was the first parable Jesus taught use. Mark 4 I have nothing that is not freely given to who so ever believes. Look it up yourself Jesus is very clear and he said out of your belly will follow rivers of living water.

Bryan, If you are so spiritually gifted, why do you not go to hospitals and cure the sick? Or be there so when a person dies, you can give them life? And please tell us how many times you have drank poison? You are a fake. All you do is talk about how spiritual you are. You are no different then anyone else if you are saved, for all come short of the glory of God.

Oh segy You must have not read those 3 chapters. As for being free it's up to. Anybody can see your religion is your guide through the words in what you can or can not believe. When you understand those 3 chapters You will know arrogance is not a fruit of the spirit

shira4368 This 4 different doctrine of the saints, which we are. Hebrews 6:2 - Of the doctrine of baptismS, and doctrine of laying on of hands, and doctrine of resurrection of the dead, and doctrine of eternal judgment. 2 Timothy 1:6 - Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands. Look and find all the gifts of God, 1 of them is health there is a few more than just health. These are Gifts from God not man so let no man deceive you into not receiving any of them.

bryan, I love your post except the part about laying of hands on the sick. there is nothing wrong with that at all but the only place I have seen that happen is one individual church. I've never seen anyone go to a hospital and lay hands on anyone. I know God heals but if it is not in His will to do so, laying of hands does no good. maybe I am looking at that the wrong way. explain more to me.

Your right my faith is not based on your religion. My faith is based on the gift of Life, Jesus Gave to me. For the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the laws of sin and death. You are the no one knows. How you go around tailing people what they can and can't receive from God, All the Gift from God are yes and Amen. Even for people who believe as little as you. When you understand "Matthew chapter 13, Mark chapter 4, and Luke chapter 8. Who the Jesus sets free is free indeed.

Who is limited? The one who does not believe, "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me", Pray in tongues, laying hands on the sick and they recover, Know my father will, understanding Jesus "The word of God". Again Who so ever believes they can do all things through Christ who strengthens them. Again "ALL THINGS" means "ALL THINGS" Lokitup urself, Some will just believe a little, some will believe more, Neither is wrong we all should learn to believe more than less about the Word of God.

Luk_12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth, and what will I, if it be already kindled?

Luk_12:50 (So you think (and not just you) what goes in here is somebody who doesn't want to do this??)(I read this, and all I can think of, is thanking God for his mercy!I know if I was him and I felt like this, who could (holding me back) from doing, what I could do? No one!)

Luk_12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay, but rather division:

Just saying!I have the different point of view.At least you came up with Scripture!Thank you!Peace

LUKE 12:50 I have a baptism with which to be baptized, and how greatly and sorely I am urged on (impelled, [q]constrained) until it is accomplished! Pretty sure it sounds like a person who does not want to be separated for God to me. Not that he was running from this baptism, It's the baptism for your life, That he is talking about. I thank God for him doing this for me.

Yeah can you run that by me again?? See this is what I mean, you say things, and then I have to ask you to back it up with Scripture.Where did Jesus say he wished he didn't have to go a baptism?Anyone! Does anyone know of a place in the Bible where Jesus said this?Bryan since you said it, where is this written in the Bible?

And by the way, I only know of one baptism, that is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.The water baptism of John the Baptist was repentance for the remission of sins!

cluny the Gospel sets you free, come on you can do better than than I need your all in one baptism fix like one stop shopping? Jesus said he had to go through a baptism that he wished he did not have to. That is another baptism Jesus spoke about. But you believe we got it all in one flicking of the water on us? Wow you have Great faith?

John's baptism was from man and was a ritual of man's. Christ's baptism is from heaven. Most christians stop at the water baptims never going forward to Christ's baptism of the Holy Spirit. They think they are baptised, but are not. The Holy Spirit does not enter the body with only water baptism.

No you don't enslave me cluny u have no power to do that. As for seeing Jesus everyday Do you have a bible do you open it do you read it do you believe it? Jesus is the word of God. U still see the word as a story about God, instead of the word being alive speaking to u? When that happens u will understand "Mark chapter 4" Jesus speaking to us some of us look into his eyes and listen, and some mock him. By the way his eyes are as a flaming fire.

Bryan, you try to come off as a guy who understands the word of God.But by the very things you say, time and time again. It's clear to me you have no idea what you're talking about or God for that matter! To me, sometimes you come off as just a little dictator!

Rom_11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear,) unto this day.

Rom_11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits, that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

No cluny, To be free cluny you have to believe it, just like salvation if you don't believe in it, it want work for you. Like everything else in the word. But the things you do believe in will happen in your life. So look back over your life it has happen according to your words. As for seeing the Lord everyday does that make me Holier than you no Just means I have my eyes open to him not man made religion The word states you can seek his him you will find him. When you understand Mark chapter 4, Jesus said, If you don't understand this parable the rest you want understand.

Rom_14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

Mat_3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Eph_4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling, One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

cluny you were right Moses was the only person to ever see God. But a lot of people have seen the Lord in the OT and the NT and even today. The 3 brother in the fire, Paul the apostle there is so many more look it up yourself. Don't for get the Lord walked on the earth as a man, a lot of nonbelievers saw him then to.