Today’s info is really going to be a game-changer for you because we’re discussing a hormone that nobody knows about or talks about yet it’s the number one hormone you need to control if you’re going to be successful at losing body fat and getting into your leanest condition ever.

I got to hang out with Joel for four days while I was in Tampa, Florida visiting him and one of the hot topics of our conversation was accelerating my fat loss goals to get me shredded for my photo shoot next weekend in the Dominican Republic. After a bit of arm-twisting I agreed that I would try out his nutrition program instead of my own.

After you see the pictures next week you can decide for yourself if it works.

For now, with Joel’s permission, I’ve posted a recent article I would like you to read and then post your questions for Joel and I to respond to – I’m sure there will be a lot so we’ll do our best to answer them all.

Lepti-what?!

It’s name is Leptin (derived from the Greek word leptos, meaning “thin”), and it’s without a doubt the most important hormone you probably never heard of.

You see, leptin was only first discovered just over 10 years ago, and as far as weight loss is concerned, that’s extremely recent.

Leptin levels are mediated by two things. One is your level of body fat. All else being equal, people with higher levels of body fat will have higher leptin levels than those with lower levels of body fat and vice versa.

Because leptin is secreted by fat cells, it makes sense that under normal conditions there is a direct correlation between leptin levels and the amount of fat you are carrying.

Unfortunately, when you’re attempting to lose fat and begin to restrict calories, conditions are anything but “normal” and the body responds accordingly by lowering leptin levels.

This is because the second mediator of blood leptin levels is your calorie intake. Lower your calorie intake and leptin will fall, independent of body fat.

So, yes, you can be overweight and still suffer from low leptin levels – just go on a diet.

So what happens when leptin levels fall and why the heck does it matter?

Again, under normal conditions leptin levels are normal and the brain gets the signal loud and clear that nutrition intake is adequate. Metabolism is high and the internal environment of the body is one very conducive to fat burning.

A body that knows a little something about fat burning.

Until you start dieting.

Go on a diet and leptin levels quickly plummet (by 50% or more after only one week), sending a signal to the body that you’re semi-starved and not consuming enough calories.

This puts the breaks on metabolism and creates a hormonal environment extremely conducive to fat storage. Thyroid hormones (hormones extremely important to metabolism) respond by taking a dive and the abdominal fat-storing stress hormone cortisol skyrockets measurably.

Hello belly fat.

Welcome to the world of leptin resistance

And if that wasn’t bad enough, the appetite stimulating hormones ghrelin, neuropeptide-Y, and anandamide all hop on board to make your life even more miserable.

You don’t have to remember any of those names, just remember that when leptin drops, you get seriously hungry.

Despite having a pretty good reason for its reaction, it’s pretty ironic that our bodies are primed for fat loss at every other time except when we are trying to burn fat.

Wouldn’t it be great if we could maintain high leptin levels and a body primed for fat burning while dieting? It would seemingly solve all of our problems.

But in order to do this, we’d have to somehow keep leptin levels high as we attempt to lose those extra pounds.

How about “supplementing” with leptin?

A couple of problems here: First, leptin is a protein based hormone, which means that it can not be taken orally (otherwise, it would simply be digested). So that rules out a leptin pill.

This leaves the method of “supplemental” leptin administration to injection. And leptin injections DO indeed work, reversing the metabolic adaptations to dieting and “starvation” even while continuing to restrict calories.

“Well, that’s nice and all, but I’m human.” Point taken; research with rodents doesn’t always correlate to similar findings in humans, however…

In 1999, Heymsfield et al. performed a double-blind placebo controlled study analyzing weight loss over a 24-week period in 73 obese humans. Subjects either injected daily with leptin or a placebo (i.e. bogus alternative). At the end of the 24-week period, the leptin group lost significantly more weight than the placebo and a higher percentage of fat vs. muscle.

In 2002, Rosenbaum et al. administered low-dose leptin to subjects (male and female) who had dieted to a 10% decrease in body weight. During the diet period, thyroid hormone levels, 24-hr energy expenditure, and other metabolic markers substantially decreased. The result of the leptin replacement therapy?

In 2003, Fogteloo et al. showed that leptin injections “tended to reduce the decline of energy expenditure associated with energy restriction, whereas the tendency of energy intake to increase back to baseline levels in placebo-treated subjects was largely prevented in subjects treated with leptin.”

Yeah, that’s a mouthful. Let me put in simple terms: not only did the leptin group experience less of a decline in metabolism, but they were also less hungry, allowing them to more easily stick to the prescribed diet.

In 2004, Welt et al. reported that leptin given to a group of women with thyroid disorder immediately raised circulating concentrations of the thyroid hormones T3 and T4.

In 2005, Rosenbaum and company were at it again, again showing that energy expenditure and circulating concentrations of T3 and T4 all returned to pre-weight-loss levels with regular leptin injections.

Daily leptin injections are far too expensive, costing thousands and thousands of dollars per week. So, we can pretty much forget about supplemental leptin as a solution (which is probably moot anyway considering that not too many people are going to voluntarily plunge a needle into their skin daily).

A REAL Solution

Now that we know that leptin injections aren’t going to save us, let’s talk about the possibility of manipulating your body’s natural leptin production.

And I’ve got good news – this can indeed be done, and without involving needles or thousands of dollars. In fact, we’ll swap the injections and mounds of cash out for two things I can guarantee you’re absolutely going to love: more calories and more carbs.

We know that leptin levels decrease by about 50% after only one week of dieting, but fortunately, it doesn’t take nearly that long for leptin to bump back up with a substantial increase in caloric intake.

A strategic cheat meal will boost leptin levels, helping you to lose fat.

By strategically cheating with high calorie foods (and yes, even stuff like pizza, ice cream, wings, cookies, burgers, fries, etc), you can give leptin and metabolism a major boost mid-diet which sets you up for plenty of subsequent fat loss when you resume your reduced calorie eating regimen.

This means greater net fat loss week after week, and ultimately, a much more realistic, maintainable way to bring you to the body you truly want and deserve.

So what’s so special about carbs?

Well, leptin, carbohydrate and insulin have been shown to have very strong ties.

Calories alone don’t get the job done, as research shows that overfeeding on protein and fat has little effect on leptin.

In order to get a strong leptin response from overfeeding, there needs to be plenty of carbs in the mix. In fact, the relationship is SO strong that research conducted by Boden et al. at the Temple University School of Medicine shows that leptin levels will not fall even in response to all-out fasting so long as insulin and blood sugar are maintained via IV drip (16). That’s CRAZY.

Because of this carbohydrate/insulin-leptin relationship, it makes sense that foods combining both carbs and fat (like pizza, burgers, cookies, ice cream, etc) work best for reversing the negative adaptations caused by dieting because of the BIG-TIME insulin response they produce.

But even more importantly, this relationship gives us an indicator of just how important and useful carbohydrates are on “diet” days.

And THAT’S what I’ll be back to talk with you about tomorrow. How we use strategic carbohydrate cycling along with planned cheating in the Cheat Your Way Thin program to that you never go a single day without a body primed for fat loss.

Stay tuned; our journey continues tomorrow…

…but for now let me know what questions you need answered by Joel and I. Fire away…

Vince

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Hi, Am struggling to know what tp eat at all at the mintue.Its very confusing!Am exercising about an hour every day,30 cardio,30 resiistance bands or weights ,all before breakfast.i have little energy and feel awful.Am not sure what am doing ,am just guessing from the answers on here.I don’t whether you can eat fruit,what fruit,wholegrains,porridge on what days,so am becoming obsessed with protein,meat which is making me feel quite sick.can anybody help…….please.

are thes foods okay?? how could i know if am eating those foods in the RIGHT time?? can you please give me a sample of my meal plan for those foods that am eating?? thanks.. my height is 5’10 or 5’11.. and my weight is between 135-140lbs… thanks again! =))

are these foods okay already? do you have anything more to add that are really GOOD and HEALTHY??? =)) thanks again…. i would just also like to ask… what are the best fruits and veggies that i should eat??? and what’s the difference between organic eggs and some eggs?? does that mean, the eggs that are not organic, is not healthy?? and can i eat brown rice twice a day?? and how many grams of brown rice per meal?? i might overdo my brown rice intake… cause here in the philippines, our primary source of carbs is really RICE… that’s why it’s really difficult for us pinoys to cut out rice in our daily meal…. thanks again! so much! is whole cream powder milk bad? how about skim milk? how about canned corn? and fruit cocktail? mayonnaise? thanks again!

Joel: I have read Jeff Anderson’s material and tried his 3-week low protein strategy that only has you eating 30 grams of protein and some high GI carbs right after your workouts, which he has you working out 5 days a week on short superset sessions. The idea here is to force your natural HGH and testosterone levels to jump. Did you see this also happen with your plan? Do you think this might also be a part of why you get the results you do on top of leptin?

There’s a question posted by Bryant on the 17th. that is still unanswered about the effect of this program on a diabetic person. Having my whole family suffering from it, I watch very closely my comsuption of high GI foods. Will this program work for me? Many thanks!

If YOU personally are not diabetic, then you don’t need to worry about it. If you eat clean 85% of the time, and exercise, the chances of type II diabetes are slim to none.

If you are personally diabetic, then you need to consult with your doctor and get those issues under control prior to starting a program like this. Always follow your doctor’s advice.

There’s a question posted by Bryant on the 17th. that is still unanswered about the effect of this program on a diabetic person. Having my whole family suffering from it, I watch very closely my comsuption of high GI foods. Will this program work for me? Many thanks!

Hey Joel, I understand the science behind why it is ok to eat bad foods on your program – I just don’t understand why you – as a health and fitness expert – would suggest it is ok. I know you say it is ok because of how it makes the program work and because of how it make leptin levels raise etc but why say it is ok to eat a donut. Like i said in another post, Vince up until recent, even talked about avoiding bad foods such as soda and donuts etc. I would think he was also talking about it from a health persceptive. Why is he now saying that he will be consuming them??? Just so he can make the program work??? We are now all just a little confused about where his beliefs are as far as junk food? You say eating some junk food once every 5 days wont have any affect on health? Well as Paul mentions – then what about about cigarettes – is one every 5 days ok? The oil that is used to fry donuts in is so bad, especially when it is heated for long periods of time and when it is cooled and reheated again and again. Soda too is sooo bad for you – Vince has talked about the so called rust it creates in your body. Also how it dehydrates you and also how bad the sugars in sodas are. And then there is all the other artificial stuff that goes into processed foods. Vince spends so much time in his programs talking about avoiding these. I say Vince because I have Vince’s No Nosense Muscle Building Program (and have had great success with it) but i have not used any of your programs. So yeah now you all are saying its ok to eat some of these foods, its your choice and if you decide to eat some of these foods cause you like them its ok because it will have no affect on your overall health and actually if you eat these foods your health will actually benefit in the long run. Ahhhhhh!!!!!! You either believe some thing is good for you or that it is not!!!! Dont say it isnt one day and then the next day say it is ok!

Originally Posted By RomanBut for many of us it is not about wanting to put the program down, it is about not undertsanding why a health/fitness expert would suddenly say it is even ok to eat donuts or fries or drink soda???

The reason is simple. It IS okay when you use it strategically and in combination with a healthy eating plan. To consume “non-diet” food one out of every 7 days will have zero negative affect on health, provided you follow the rest of the program and are exercising (also part of the program).

Health will improve.

Lastly, as mentioned quite a few times, you can get the same affect w/ “cleaner” high GI carbs + fat, but that’s purely a personal choice. For me, I’m going to eat pizza and I’m going to go out to a nice restaurant and order whatever I want without having to “worry about it”. But, to each his own.

As for someone who mentioned Mike Geary — he’s another great friend of mine (we actually lived 10 mins from each other in NJ and hung out often), he does cheat days, too. He just eats a huge plate of “natural” pasta and meatballs or lasagna and bread/butter, etc.

You don’t have to eat cookies, but if you want to include them in the day’s menu, you can do so without having to worry about any negative effect on health.

Vin, some recent research suggests that, even if the overall result is a reduction of alcohol consumption over an extended period of time, you can’t “save up” the amount of wine you’re allowed to drink per day (say, a glass) and drink the total amount for the week in one boozing session. This is because of the damage that one concentrated drinking bout can have on your liver, your heart and other organs. Same goes for smoking. You can arguably have, say, 3 cigarettes per day, and some people might say that the first one or two actually have positive effects, for example on the brain and on concentration. But you can’t be a non-smoker Monday through Saturday and smoke a whole packet of 20 on Sunday, because of the damaging impact this has on your lungs, your heart and your veins etc. What scientific studies are there to show that “overfeeding” (the term you have adopted, albeit from the scientific community) with junk food over the course of one day doesn’t have a damaging effect on our bodies? Paul

Originally Posted By puggy@Roman – I totally agree with you Roman. Suddenly we have new rules and everything was we were told is BS. I remember a post from Craig Ballentine about Pizza and how hard is to burn it and now there is no problem the body will suck it. I am not saying i don’t want to try it, but i want to be convinced. I asked about the interview with Tom Venuto (who is a very trusted guy in my opinion) and I must get the program to see the interview. What kind of BS is that? If the interview was great i would personally post it to promote my program and ideas.

Tom will run it at some point, but that won’t be until quite a bit later as he is in the middle of his own promotions. I’m adding it as a bonus for anyone who wants it now, because it really was THAT good.

And Tom was very, very convinced by my responses to his questions.

If you want to read it now, email my support address and I’ll send it to you (I’m not going to do that for everybody, though).

I know Vince believes in how and why this works and it’s true, unless we try it for ourselves we cant put the program down. But for many of us it is not about wanting to put the program down, it is about not undertsanding why a health/fitness expert would suddenly say it is even ok to eat donuts or fries or drink soda??? Especially when in their own programs and videos they talk so openly about avoiding bad fats and unhealthy foods. So regardless of how these food make the program work, I just dont understand why they have changed their beliefs and their values. One day they are saying they believe we shouldn’t be eating bad fats such as the above, then the next day they are saying it is fine to do so. I think Vince has always protrayed himself to be a very open and honest and upfront person and always comes across in his videos as a real person who may not be 100% perfect with everything all the time but ones credibility and admiration definitely gets changed when one day you hear him say donuts and fries are so bad for you and the next day they are saying they are going to eat them. I am thinking that is what is making many of us on here confused! Why the sudden self value change?

@Paul – Amen Paul! I know Vince and Joel are saying you dont eat junk food all the time and that it is mostly about clean eating and having a cheat day once a week or every 4th or 5th day. But I, like you, just don’t understand why they – as Joel quoted – demand that you eat junk food! And why would some one who prides themself on their health be advertising the fact that they are going to scoff down junk food on their cheat days when in their programs and videos they spend so much time talking about bad foods and why we should stay away from them. So that is the dishearting part! Yes, we all eat some bad stuff every now and again – I am pretty fussy and wont do anything like soda or fries or donuts or pastries etc – I may have a pizza once in a while (although I choose to have whole wheat with little or no cheese) – so I can understand how with this program they are saying you can now loose weight while not having to say no to your favorite bad food all of the time. That sounds fair it is just that it seems to be such a pushing point of this program. Why cant more be said about eating a healthy carb and fat combo such as Mace mentions above? Yeah, pizza can actually be ok – you have choices as far as what your pizza is made of – but soda and fries and donuts and pastries – why would they endorse eating any of that. I am intersted in how in how leptin works but from a health persceptive. Why cant they say lets raise leptin levels by eating natural high GI foods like Mace mentioned such as maple syrup and raw honey combined with healthy fats? You’d think that a health minded person, especially one who for a long time has been telling us to stay away from bad foods, wouldnt be making such a point of eating bad stuff, even once a week. So it is not the program or the idea of leptin levels that I disagree with, it’s more the values of what someone decides to eat. Actually Ylca just wrote a good comment I think – at least a fair one. Like he says we have to be realistic and it’s ok to have a balance. It’s ok to eat healthy and still enjoy a beer with a friend. It’s ok to go out and enjoy a pizza. I suppose I am just so against eating real junk food like fries and donuts and soda etc and so therefore just don’t undertsand why a health/fitness expert would even say it is ok to eat any of that!

After reading Mike Geary’s book, I’ve kinda become a health freak. (Another book I totally recommend is Going Against the Grain, as well as the entire Dr Weston Price story).

Bottom line, when ancient society’s ate primitively, there was no evidence of tooth decay, and of course, these people never brushed their teeth. Introduce refined grains and sugar…suddenly the teeth are rotting out and second generations need braces…previously not a problem.

If these foods are doing this to the teeth, I GUARANTEE there are other systems within the body that will suffer as well…it’s just that the evidence of these problems doesn’t surface over night.

What would be wrong with spiking blood sugar levels once a week by eating lots of natural high GI foods like Maple Syrup and Raw Honey and eating lots of high fat foods like roasted/salted Macadamias? Would that not achieve the results we want on leptin levels?

Yo! I bought the CYWT ebook a few months back and followed the first stage. I was sceptical about following the program and was 90% sure after reading the book that cheating once every week was sure to screw up everything and make my BF% rise.

After 15 days I had lost 4lbs and 2% BF. 14 days of low carbs, fruit and fresh veg, lean meats and 1 “overfeeding day”.

I hesitated to buy but after doing so and trying it out, i wasn’t disappointed.

I can understand that this is a controversial subject for many – and contradictive too! Although I think that some points are being missed here.

Personally I’ve been trying this program for about 4 months now and I love it. But hey, we’re all different here and I think that’s the main thing to keep in mind – find out what works for YOU! I’m so happy for those who really think that a whole grain toast with peaunutbutter and brown rice qualifies as a “cheat feast”. Me – I don’t work like that. I love my chocolate chip cookies and I’m proud of it and if there’s a diet out there that can let me have my cookies while still look awesome and get laid – I’d take that any day of the week!

Second – I do understand that the cheat day can easily be interpreted as an all out binge feast if you don’t know the program. Nothing could be further away from the truth. The first thing that gets cleared up in the manual is that you should never stuff yourself or eat til the point of discomfort. Eat when you’re hungry, stop when you’re full. The cheat day is suppose to be an enjoyable day for you to have you’re favourite foods on. If that is brown rice or whole wheat bread – good for you! I’d like my cookie, please.

All in all, the main thing I appreciate about the cheat day is the “mental” day off it means. I love that I don’t have to be 100% conscious about my diet 7-days a week. And call me crazy – but I actually don’t care if a few perservatives or other “junk” passes through my body once in a while.

I’d like to reverse the debate a bit. I’m one of the first to promote healthy eating and natural foods – this is what I live on 6 days a week. But also, nothing makes me more tired than uptight, perky health profits that tries to scare you into thinking that by God – should you have one Big Mac you might as well put yourself up on the wait list for a heart-transplate while you’re queing. I love cheat your way thin for the fact that it’s the only program I’ve come across that shows you that shows you that it’s possible to have a balance between “good” and “bad”. Nothing is ever all or nothing, things can co-exist.

are thes foods okay?? how could i know if am eating those foods in the RIGHT time?? can you please give me a sample of my meal plan for those foods that am eating?? thanks.. my height is 5’10 or 5’11.. and my weight is between 135-140lbs… thanks again! =))

are these foods okay already? do you have anything more to add that are really GOOD and HEALTHY??? =)) thanks again…. i would just also like to ask… what are the best fruits and veggies that i should eat??? and what’s the difference between organic eggs and some eggs?? does that mean, the eggs that are not organic, is not healthy?? and can i eat brown rice twice a day?? and how many grams of brown rice per meal?? i might overdo my brown rice intake… cause here in the philippines, our primary source of carbs is really RICE… that’s why it’s really difficult for us pinoys to cut out rice in our daily meal…. thanks again! so much! is whole cream powder milk bad? how about skim milk? how about canned corn? and fruit cocktail? mayonnaise? thanks again!

@Joel Marion – Wow, these past two days have been pretty heated here! This is obviously a really hot topic.

Unfortunately my gym – or any place nearby that I know of at least – provides full body scans. I’ve kept track of my progress the “army way” – measurement tape and circumferense round neck, waist and hips. I’m on 22 – 23% and weigh 132 lbs and I’d like to get down to 15% but like I said before – I’m plateauing again.

I also have a question regarding the “priming phase” in your program. If leptin levels drop after only a week, then how come you don’t implement weekly cheatdays from the beginning? The reason I’m asking is that I’m thinking about re-starting agin to hopefully get things going again. Or is that just going to make it worse? Although I didn’t lose most of my weight in the priming phase the first time around – it’s been a consisten half and inch each week – so maybe that’s not the trick?

Yo Vince I Need Some Help Because You Said This Is For Young People Up And I Am Going Into Highschool Next Year And I Need To Know If There Is Any Special Way For Younger Guys To Train Email me The Answer PleaseBryan8r@gmail.com

a) Joel himself says it all, in my view. He’s conceded that the carb-fat combo required to raise leptin does not necessarily entail junk food at all, but can be achieved in a more healthy manner. So, what on earth are we discussing? The bottom line is that Joel is saying that Coca Cola and HFCS and other food and drink that doctors say may eventually give you prostate cancer are good for you. I much preferred the stuff by Isabel on the horrors of HFCS that you were sending round a few weeks ago. So, if, by Joel’s own admission, we don’t need that rotten stuff, why are you guys now professing it? Are you saying HFCS is good for me, Vince? I certainly hope not. Hasn’t this been a very sharp change of position on your part in a very short space of time?

b) I naturally don’t want to get into a row with anyone, least of all with great guys like Joel who are trying to help us lost body fat and build muscle. But coming back to my point about what I see as the primacy of the work of Jon Benson in this particular area, I here quote the latter by way of response to some issues raised by other contributors to this discussion page:

“My dietary plan not only ‘lets’ you eat pizza (or whatever your favorite foods might be) every week, several times a week… it DEMANDS that you do it … Here’s why. First, I have you eat less on certain days and certain times. If done the way I suggest your metabolism … will not slow down that much. Then, at a specific time… boom! You eat a lot more food, and the best way to do this is eating your favorite foods … So I created my System from the ground up to ensure I never got bored with my eating… and the extra cals from pizza … actually boosts my metabolism sky-high. Here’s an example: Last week I ate the normal Every Other Day Diet-way … So, after several days of lower-cal, lower-carb eating, I ate about 5000 calories of Mexican food (so good!). But the TIMING is crucial. You just can wing it … The next morning I saw more of my abs … The only time I stop this is 4 weeks prior to a photoshoot … but unless you want to be 5% bodyfat (and you probably do not) you never have to stop it”.

Okay, he doesn’t mention leptin. But as I see it, the entire framework of what Joel is claiming is actually all there. Joel just gives it greater conceptualisation with reference to leptin, again as far as I understand it. At any rate, that’s the point I wanted to make in this regard, and I hope it’s now a bit more clear.

Paul

Hey Paul.

You’re not hogging the forum – believe it or not you’re speaking on behalf of A LOT of people who have the exact same questions as you who are not typing but reading every post here – thanks for doing the work for thousands of others!

As mentioned, you can get the same result with cleaner foods combining very high GI carbs and fats. And it is equally effective. What is not equally effective is carbs alone.

You don’t need to consume HFCS – no one is forcing you in the program to eat those foods – they are just options.

We don’t eat “junk” all day on cheat days… or go looking for foods with HFCS – not at all – if if you want to have some cookies or soda go for it.

Keep it mind – BIG PICTURE. Overall this program is going to do bigger benefit than harm. Look at this program from a one yeah view – you’re cheating 15% of the year. Show me somebody who has a clean diet 85% of the year and I”ll show you one of the healthiest people you’ll ever meet – even if that other 15% contains foods that are bad if you examine just that one food under a microscope.

My body seems to loose muscle very fast and build fats faster. I spend 1 hr cardio and 1 hr weights on alternate days and 200 crunches with low-carb and high protein diet. But if I miss the gym for a week, my muscles start to shrink and i have to go back to my start.

What can i do to improve my muscle growth and make it stay?? i dont want to put on mass but I want to have a leaner stripped look.

As far as your pizza commnet – yeah even Vince said that once on one of his videos – I think it was Vince – that it takes 10 minutes to consume an 800 calories and 80 minutes of intense cardio to burn the 800 calories off.

Again the whole idea makes sense in some ways – but I don’t know why they are pushing eating junk food. Vince is even advertising he is going to be eating 6 donuts and a whole plate of brownies. No doubt this is a marketing tactic to real in those people that wanna loose weight but who cant disapline themselves to eat healthy all the time. Those people are probably – wow how cool – i can loose weight and still eat my favorite junk food! Joel did say you can also affect leptin levels with clean food although he did say it wasnt quite as affective. I wouldve just thought that these health guys would be pushing the clean eating more rather than endorsing junk food.

Hey bud… if you know anyone who is going to buy this program only because they can eat “bad foods” on certain days without following the rest of the program – please slap them in the face for me and cut there credit card in half – this is not for them.

You need to follow the whole program to make the cheat days work properly.

Originally Posted By johey guys, this sounds pretty awesome. I was scheduling a cheat day for once a week, with good but not fantastic results. How often do you recommend the cheat day be scheduled?? Regards, Jo

Jo… that will be outlined in the program I’m personally doing one every 5 days but my other 4 days are much more strict than Joel’s program and I m doing 2-3 hours of training a day on these last final few days before the photo shoot.

@puggy – Here is part of an interview that Tom did for someone else – Fourth is cycling the calories, meaning a zig zag or reefed approach instead of staying on low calories and or low carbs all the time. Also periodic breaks in the deficit by going up to maintenance levels when there is a long term weight loss goal that requires more than 12-16 weeks to achieve. This has been a secret diet weapon of bodybuilders for as long as I can remember, so I’m actually surprised this method hasn’t caught on more in the mainstream. If you look at the research on Leptin, you can see there is a scientific basis for carb cycling, and there’s a practical basis too as it improves compliance since the dieter gets to eat more with a periodic clean food re-feed, in addition to allowed free meals.

So he does agree with carb cycling.

As far as your pizza commnet – yeah even Vince said that once on one of his videos – I think it was Vince – that it takes 10 minutes to consume an 800 calories and 80 minutes of intense cardio to burn the 800 calories off.

Again the whole idea makes sense in some ways – but I don’t know why they are pushing eating junk food. Vince is even advertising he is going to be eating 6 donuts and a whole plate of brownies. No doubt this is a marketing tactic to real in those people that wanna loose weight but who cant disapline themselves to eat healthy all the time. Those people are probably – wow how cool – i can loose weight and still eat my favorite junk food! Joel did say you can also affect leptin levels with clean food although he did say it wasnt quite as affective. I wouldve just thought that these health guys would be pushing the clean eating more rather than endorsing junk food.

@Roman – I totally agree with you Roman. Suddenly we have new rules and everything was we were told is BS. I remember a post from Craig Ballentine about Pizza and how hard is to burn it and now there is no problem the body will suck it. I am not saying i don’t want to try it, but i want to be convinced. I asked about the interview with Tom Venuto (who is a very trusted guy in my opinion) and I must get the program to see the interview. What kind of BS is that? If the interview was great i would personally post it to promote my program and ideas.

And PS Joel – I know my comment about steroid use was very much exagerated!!!! I suppose I was just trying to make a point about how once you guys were saying we should eat clean and we should stay away from junk food in order to get a healthy strong body but now you are saying hey quess what – you can have junk food if you want and then you actually advertise the fact how much junk food yourself will be eating. Maybe it’s just part of marketing but it just doesnt come off sounding real great! I know I keep bring up junk food and that you keep saying its not all about junk food but everything you and Vince are advertising regarding your program seems to center around this and Vince is even telling us that he will be eating 1/2 doz donuts and or pastries and a whole plate of brownies and a whole pizza etc. Maybe you guys can write abit more about how to raise lipton levels with healthy carbs and fats rather than mentioning it as like a side subject. No offense meant to you or Vince – but this post is about expressing our thoughts on this right (-:+ Cheers

Hey Joel – I know a lot of us are coming down hard on you guys – it’s just that once upon a time clean eating was valued and was part of being healthy and lean but now suddenly we are being told it is ok to eat junk food as well on certain days – so you can see how it becomes confusing. I suppose all of us are divided into different groups – there are those who work out and but eat like crap – there are those that work out and eat reasonably healthy but still enjoy a donut or beer or brownie or fries or soda etc and then there are those of us who will always stay away from those kind of food items. So in the end there will be those who will get excited about your program and about being able to incoporate healthy eating with a cheat day and there will be those us who will show no interest in your program simply because we will never be able to be talked into eating things that are unhealthy. I know you and Vince both said that you can get the same results with your program by eating carbs and fats – as health people why would you not push that instead of saying hey its ok to go for the junk food. Maybe saying its ok to go for the junk food makes the program sound more exciting for a lot of people. It is just a little sad to hear Vince say he is going to scoff down 6 donuts and a whole plate of brownies – just makes me question his personal values as far as his own health goes. I think that what is getting a lot of us confused and a little upset – to hear health experts suddenly advertising the fact about how much junk food they will be eating. As far as the health benefits of leptin – I am in the dark on that and so cant really comment on whether it is something worth looking into or not. Maybe i will have to read your program after all.

As mentioned, you can get the same result with cleaner foods combining very high GI carbs and fats. And it is equally effective. What is not equally effective is carbs alone.

Secondly, we don’t eat “junk” all day on cheat days…but if we want to have a burger, fries, pizza, or something else that we don’t normally think of as “diet food”, then we do. The health impact is 0…actually, the program as a whole improves health.

Your steroid reference is more than just a little misguided. There is no comparison to using organ damaging substances for weeks or months at a time, to having a “laid back” day diet-wise once a week. If you were juicing and got blood work done, it’d come back with a million and one risk factors (elevated liver enzymes, low HDL, high LDL, increase triglycerides, etc)…with my program, you can expect the opposite…each and every week. You get healthier every week.

from your understanding how does leucine effect leptin? leucine has the ability to signal the fed state with or without insulin! I think the idea of putting all this “low quality” food can be substituted in a much better manner, by tricking the body with leucine and maltodextrin instead of pizza and ice cream to trick leptin control!! thoughts….. thanks, Matt

How does this ‘Holiday edition’ differ from the already released Cheat Your Way Thin Program? Should i be interested to purchase it if i already own Joel’s previous program? there are obviously new things, for example, i dont recall anything on fasting on the previous one. thanx for the info

We’re adding extra bonuses and changing the manual up a bit. If you’re a previous customer, you’ll get everything for free. I take care of my customers 🙂

Amazing stuff you’ve got here and thanks a lot Joel for the info..I’ve been getting your updates too and you’ve got some really great insight into all this stuff..Well I’ve got a question though..I’m just 17 and people around me keep telling me that I shouldn’t go low-carb cause I’m in a growing stage and stuff..and also my col timings are very hectic..6 30am-6 pm…And I’ve got loads to study coz of many entrance exams I gotta write..Anyways I was wondering how I should use Carb-cycling during my diet days say if my cheat days were on sundays..I’m 5′ 11, 215 pounds..Any help would be great..And in terms of workouts I’ve been doing Craig’s turbulence training and they’re awesome..but I’m kinda clueless about nutrition..So I’d appreciate your help…Thanks a lot guys!..

Nishanth.

The diet, and every aspect of it, is 100% safe for a 17 year old, provided you are a normal, healthy individual (without other medical conditions).

Originally Posted By Santiagohey vince Pretty interesting about all the leptin stuff, i wanna know how much can i cheet in cheet days? how much should i eat in order to boost my leptin levels?

We don’t place restrictions on amount or type of foods on the cheat days. The only rule is that you do not eat to the point of discomfort. Eat until you are moderately full, and then wait until you are at least moderately hungry again to tackle your next craving. Other than that, there are no “rules”. And believe it or not, this “all-out-eat-whatever-you-want” approach, in conjunction with the rest of my program, is the method that has been shown to work the best.

Of course – business is business and when there is a chance to make some extra money of course they go for it. We all do although I like to think that I do always stand by my own values. With that said – what they are promoting may very well work and there are a lot of people out there who desire to get fit and lean but who still would like to … Read Moreenjoy pizza and soda and brownies etc – I am just not one of them. And I do think it is a little sad when someone who used to promote healthy eating is suddenly saying it is ok to eat junk. I have learnt so much from Vince and his program is what started me on this fitness path but he certainly wont be able to convince me to feed my body with junk food and it is sad to see him saying on his blog that he is going to scoff down 6 donuts! How much more unhealthy can you get than eating one of those – I just don’t undertand!!

I have to say I agree with Paul on this. Yes we all want to get lean and muscly but in the end isn’t it about being healthy! It just sounds like this is just another craze to get everyone excited especially those who tend to jump from one thing to another and who have a lack of commitment and dedication. And you seem to be contradicting yourself too Vince – in your book and videos you always used to talk about shopping on the out side of the supermarket and staying away from all process and refined foods. Why on earth would you now be avocating people to eat such junk??? I know you and Joel have both said that you can up your leptin levels by eating healthy as well by combining the right combo of carbs and fats but then you say it wont be quite as affective as eating the junk food! I just don’t get it. There are those people who are just interested in getting big and lean and will no doubt jump on the band wagon of any new idea that comes out if it promises results but for those of us that care about our bodies and like to stay healthy, eating junk food in order to get results just doesn’t fit in with our values. And then either you or Joel said that in the end though eating the junk food as part of getting lean will eventually lead to a healthier body – that’s just shit – then we might as well initially all take steroids to get big. Are we promoting shortcuts here or real values????… Read More I have followed your programs and have studied your info and have always been impressed with most of it but this just seems a big marketing hype and just doesn’t fit in with anything you said you use to value!

How does this ‘Holiday edition’ differ from the already released Cheat Your Way Thin Program? Should i be interested to purchase it if i already own Joel’s previous program? there are obviously new things, for example, i dont recall anything on fasting on the previous one. thanx for the info

Yo again, Vince. I’ll be quick because I don’t want to hog your blog. Two points.

a) Joel himself says it all, in my view. He’s conceded that the carb-fat combo required to raise leptin does not necessarily entail junk food at all, but can be achieved in a more healthy manner. So, what on earth are we discussing? The bottom line is that Joel is saying that Coca Cola and HFCS and other food and drink that doctors say may eventually give you prostate cancer are good for you. I much preferred the stuff by Isabel on the horrors of HFCS that you were sending round a few weeks ago. So, if, by Joel’s own admission, we don’t need that rotten stuff, why are you guys now professing it? Are you saying HFCS is good for me, Vince? I certainly hope not. Hasn’t this been a very sharp change of position on your part in a very short space of time?

b) I naturally don’t want to get into a row with anyone, least of all with great guys like Joel who are trying to help us lost body fat and build muscle. But coming back to my point about what I see as the primacy of the work of Jon Benson in this particular area, I here quote the latter by way of response to some issues raised by other contributors to this discussion page:

“My dietary plan not only ‘lets’ you eat pizza (or whatever your favorite foods might be) every week, several times a week… it DEMANDS that you do it … Here’s why. First, I have you eat less on certain days and certain times. If done the way I suggest your metabolism … will not slow down that much. Then, at a specific time… boom! You eat a lot more food, and the best way to do this is eating your favorite foods … So I created my System from the ground up to ensure I never got bored with my eating… and the extra cals from pizza … actually boosts my metabolism sky-high. Here’s an example: Last week I ate the normal Every Other Day Diet-way … So, after several days of lower-cal, lower-carb eating, I ate about 5000 calories of Mexican food (so good!). But the TIMING is crucial. You just can wing it … The next morning I saw more of my abs … The only time I stop this is 4 weeks prior to a photoshoot … but unless you want to be 5% bodyfat (and you probably do not) you never have to stop it”.

Okay, he doesn’t mention leptin. But as I see it, the entire framework of what Joel is claiming is actually all there. Joel just gives it greater conceptualisation with reference to leptin, again as far as I understand it. At any rate, that’s the point I wanted to make in this regard, and I hope it’s now a bit more clear.

Motivation can’t be underestimated. I was looking my best last July and since then I’ve lost 10 pounds of muscle (I’m guessing). The advice from you and Mike Geary works well for me IF I follow it.

I started re-reading your e-book last week and I noticed you started the first chapter with goal and motivation stuff.

A couple of things that I think work well for me:

1.) I just broke up with my girlfriend last week…I am lazy and can’t seem to find the motivation to get in the gym regularly when I have a girlfriend. Being single, for me, seems to be great motivation to look my best.

2.) Setting deadlines. As you say, a goal without a deadline doesn’t work. Last winter, I was focused on a trip to Vegas in April…I wanted to look my best for the pool. Then I planned another trip to Vegas in late June. By that time, I was in the best shape of my life.

I’m gonna start planning a trip every 90 days from now on, someplace warm, where I’ll be taking off my shirt in public. And no more steady girlfriends for me.

Can’t wait to read more about this leptin program and how to implement it.

Amazing stuff you’ve got here and thanks a lot Joel for the info..I’ve been getting your updates too and you’ve got some really great insight into all this stuff..Well I’ve got a question though..I’m just 17 and people around me keep telling me that I shouldn’t go low-carb cause I’m in a growing stage and stuff..and also my col timings are very hectic..6 30am-6 pm…And I’ve got loads to study coz of many entrance exams I gotta write..Anyways I was wondering how I should use Carb-cycling during my diet days say if my cheat days were on sundays..I’m 5′ 11, 215 pounds..Any help would be great..And in terms of workouts I’ve been doing Craig’s turbulence training and they’re awesome..but I’m kinda clueless about nutrition..So I’d appreciate your help…Thanks a lot guys!..

When I have the funds to buy whatever food I prefer, this is what works for me. The blood-type diet for my type is my first filter for food selection. This keeps food in my system that I digest properly, and that keeps my leptin levels responding to my food intake. Then I don’t mix fats with carbs on all but a few cheat days. A couple of times a month, I go all raw for at least a day: not mixing sweet fruits with fat or other non sweet-fruit food, and getting some greens each day with non-sweet raw foods and sometimes some nuts with the non-sweet/greens meal. Getting enough Vit E is essential for me. I feel best on the natural, but can only afford that in natural foods; nuts and the few grains that I can eat.

Hey Joel, I have a question about your program. I started your program a few months back by buying your book online but didn”t get superb results like alot of your other clients in your testimonials suggest. I was wondering if this is a result of how I carried out the priming phase and excercise plan. Now I have sort of strayed away from the program, but still have managed to shed a couple of pounds and achieving around 10% bodyfat but not at a rapid rate. I really want to finish what I started so that I can lean out a really low %. 🙁 I was wondering if I could your help with the program without having to purchase it over again online( my mom is kind of skeptical about online purchases >_>) Im 16 btw Thanks

My body seems to loose muscle very fast and build fats faster. I spend 1 hr cardio and 1 hr weights on alternate days and 200 crunches with low-carb and high protein diet. But if I miss the gym for a week, my muscles start to shrink and i have to go back to my start.

What can i do to improve my muscle growth and make it stay?? i dont want to put on mass but I want to have a leaner stripped look.

Originally Posted By CoopVince- I used Joel’s plan some time back and lost 12lbs in one week. Really, no B.S.. This works, plus it’s so simple to follow. Best, Coop

Congrats Coop… I know eh?! I personally enjoy having goals each day. Different challenges each day keeps the program alive for me…. e.g. I like being told… “Today is a fast day…”, “Today is a low carb day…”, “Today is a full out cheat day….” That kind of programming is more effective for me rather than “Eat low carbs all week…” UGGGGHHH!!!!

Originally Posted By DanVince/Joel There still hasn’t been much talk about training with this method. For example are you combining your cheat day with the most intense training day? I would imagine you would have a rest day followed by a cheat day combined with your most intense day of training, but im just guessing here. Can you shed some light on how your training fits in with the cheat days?

We’ll be covering in this in detail bro because as you can imagine, it’s a HUGE topic of it’s own.

What I’m going to do when Joel releases the program is give a free copy of my new digital DVD called The Ultimate Cheat Day Workout… it will be the exact workout I do to gain muscle and lose fat on the SAME day in conjunction with this program.

It’s different than Joel’s recommendations… pretty intense workout and I’m going to make it worth the price of Joel’s program. It will only be available for people who order the program through me so stay tuned for how to do that.

But we WILL talk about general training protocols in the next few days too Dan. Thanks for asking.

1. Leptin is a protein-based hormone so it can’t be taken orally so the method of administration would have to be injectable. This puts the supplement industry out of the race, as any supplement that needs to be injected can only be obtained through a prescription.

On a side note – some scum bag supplement companies claim to contain leptin because there are people who’ll read the above info and race off to the supplement store and ask, “I need something with leptin in it…” That’s called a desperate fool!

Where were we… ah yes…

2. That leaves things up to the pharmaceutical industry and they’re not interested in leptin for a few reasons… An injection medication is not the coolest or hottest thing to market… As if… “Hey, can I get a months supply of needles plunged into my skin?!?!” so this wouldn’t be an eye catcher

3. Leptin is very expensive and given the cost insurance companies would not cover it even if there was public demand.

4. Lastly, leptin only works with the proper diet and exercise program which again, in today’s quick fix society which wants pills, powders and potions, it’s not very marketable i.e. it’s not going to make companies a lot of money (spelled in plain english).

Mace, you want me to tell you what flavor to have?! No clue bro… mix them all to together…. actually mix the chocolate and vanilla. ha That’s what I do with my protein drinks…. mix chocolate, strawberry and vanilla!

Vince/Joel There still hasn’t been much talk about training with this method. For example are you combining your cheat day with the most intense training day? I would imagine you would have a rest day followed by a cheat day combined with your most intense day of training, but im just guessing here. Can you shed some light on how your training fits in with the cheat days?

Vince/Joel, Good information. Just wondering how the cheat days might effect or be adapted for a diabetic. Also what affect if any could this have on someone who is pre-diabetic?

Also to whoever mentioned that Jon’s EODD has feed days not meals… you need to read that book again. His “cheat” days only include one meal off not the whole day and he gives a specific way to eat before the meal to keep calories in check.

I don’t know much about Joel’s program yet but I don’t think that these are the same. I’d bet there are some similarities but none of these will work if you pick and choose to implement only parts of them. You’ve got to follow the whole program.

I have a few questions: 1. How does this fit in with the Empowered Nutrition meal plans if at all?

This is a different nutrition program with different parameters. You can still probably use many of the meals that you eat on that plan on certain days where they fit into my programming and the different types of days on the plan.

2. Is the CYWT designed to be a longterm (lifetime) way of eating?

Yes, absolutely. It’s the most “livable” nutrition program you’ll find anywhere, because it’s so easy to stick to. I have clients who have been eating this way for 5+ years, and maintaining all the weight loss they achieved in the first 16 weeks.

3. Do you have any thoughts or info on the benefits of CYWT on peak athletic performance and not just aesthetic or fat loss results?

The approach is a very balanced way of eating and includes all the major nutrients — it limits nothing. We have plenty of athletes that use the approach, and even use the cheat days a couple days pre-event to ensure their intramuscular energy stores are maxed out for peak performance.

I have a few questions: 1. How does this fit in with the Empowered Nutrition meal plans if at all? 2. Is the CYWT designed to be a longterm (lifetime) way of eating? 3. Do you have any thoughts or info on the benefits of CYWT on peak athletic performance and not just aesthetic or fat loss results?

Originally Posted By Paul@Vince – No more questions, Vince, as I’ve replied to Joel’s observations. But in a recent mail you said you had a forthcoming interview with Jon Benson. Maybe you could raise some of the issues with him and ask him where he differs (if at all) with Joel.

Hey Paul,

It’s been watching you and Joel exchange with each other.

I did interview Jon (and Jon is like a big brother to me… he calls me his “little bro”) yesterday and we didn’t cover anything on leptin but reviewed the main principles of EODD – probably a lot of review for you since you know Jon’s material so well.

Jon’s underlying message is that you need to MANAGE food and view it as a TOOL i.e. FUEL – not to fulfill emotional and psychological hurts in your life or to justify certain food choices because of events e.g. I have to eat Turkey because it’s Thanksgiving. No you don’t… you can eat whatever you want on Thanksgiving.

As you know, Jon drops the hammer every time and delivers unbelievable info.

I would be happy to get him back on the phone and do a follow up interview with him on Leptin and get his feedback. Let me know your specific questions.

As you know though – there is 2 parts to the equation: science and art. Even with all the science, there is an art to getting into your best shape and that comes down to YOU taking action and learning from DOING, not from reading or talking about it. Nobody can figure out what works for you and you’re a great example, Paul, of someone who has taken action and can use your own experiences to sort out the data.

Typically the people who are in the worst shape just don’t take action – they read, ask opinions, try to perfect everything on paper, get more opinions, post on some forums, say how confusing it all is, read some more…. all of this while some dude closed the book and said, “Lets find out for myself.”

I’m learning from DOING right now myself. I will have pictures and personal performance data to back up my own experience with the CYWT program.

Great conversations everyone – this has been very stimulating so far

And thanks Joel for sharing your helpful info with my readers. Your next cheat meal is on me when I see you.

Originally Posted By jim@Amanda – Hi Vince, I’m not sure how comfortable I would be at any age with putting these junk foods into my body. But I really think that as an older person who’s metabolism has really started to slow down that eating this stuff for any reason would be counterproductive. Can you comment?

Hi Jim,

I replied to Amanda’s post. I’ll past it again here:

—————————- Hey Amanda,

You’re right in saying that being able to eat some pizza and ice cream is a huge psychological boon to any diet, but you may be surprised to learn that these types of food actually work BEST when it comes to boosting leptin levels. Reason being, leptin is very closely tied to the hormone insulin as mentioned in the article above.

Foods like pizza and ice cream and donuts and french fries create a synergystic insulin response (higher than what is possible with carbohydrate alone) due the combination of high glycemic carbohydrates and fat, which gives a better response.

Now, that is not to say that you need to eat “junk” food, but rather that you just need to understand why “junk” food works so well for our purposes, and then replicate those reasons with cleaner items.

Again, french fries, pizza, ice cream, pastries, etc, all combine two things very well—very high glycemic carbohydrates and fats. That is the winning combo. Carbohydate + fat produce a synergistic insulin response beyond what is possible when just using carbs.

And you need to go HIGH GI—yams and oats are OK as part of the day’s menu, but you really need to go higher GI than this. Throw in some bread, the rice and pasta are good, maybe some crackers, Gatorade, etc.

Bottom line, high GI carbs + fat wins out. Whether you want that to be pizza or whole wheat toast with all natural peanut butter is up to you. I’d certainly take the pizza on a “cheat” day, but hey, to each his own

Joel —————————————–

I also replied to the “health” concern of eating “off limits” foods 15% of the time while adhering to a clean eating regimen 85% in my reply to Paul above.

It seems that we have been trained to become phobic of of non-diet food when trying to lose fat and improve health, but when you understand how to use it to your advantage (in a very healthy way), you can lose fat faster than you ever could while staying “strict” while improving health to boot.

Gotta check out guys — lots more work to do today, but I hope my comments have been helpful!

Firstly, I did not say anything about your programme not being for â��dudes who are serious about being leanâ��, so my point couldn’t be misguided. I was talking about people who are serious NOT JUST ABOUT being lean, but also about being healthy. As you know, “lean” and “healthy” are not necessarily synonymous terms. Okay, so your leptin levels come into line. But what about when you take your yearly blood test? Cholesterol? Prostate? Organs?

This is a question I get all the time, but let’s think about this logically. The end result of using my program is significantly lower levels of body fat. So, let’s say someone uses it to lose 20 lbs. The health benefits of having 20 lbs less fat are immense. Cholesterol levels improve, blood pressure, and a bunch of other markers.

On top of that, we use strategic exercise. Because of this, cholesterol levels , blood pressure, and other markers improve.

Further, we are eating “clean” 85% of the time. To have a single day of induglence, even if you eat the worst stuff (which as I’ve mentioned several times in my replies here, you can easily mimic the effects with “cleaner” foods so long as you combine carbs and fat), it’s not going to negate doing EVERYTHING right the 6 other days.

People can expect every health marker to improve, and that’s in addition to looking better than they ever had (not to mention actually being able to stick to a diet, the diet being liveable and doable, and enjoying the process).

Health and bloodwork improves.

Secondly, I don’t need to defend Jon Benson, and Vince has a big interview coming up with Jon so that should be a great opportunity to raise and address any differences. However, I’ve read enough of Jon’s stuff to know that he does not profess cheat “meals”, but goes whole hog in favour of cheat “days”. Furthermore, my encounter with the issue of “starvation mode” was again via Benson. The same goes for the concept and practice of “calorie staggering”. Also, Benson’s use of “cheating” does not have a purely psychological scope, as you seem to suggest, but actually claims that your junk days are NECESSARY for fat loss (he even said this in an interview, and I wrote in to his blog to say I disagred with him and agreed withi his guest, whose name temporarilyescapes me). That you now add to this the issue of leptin is, in my view, interesting, and, as you say, scientific investigations and findings often overlap, so your contribution is a good one. But for me, you are merely fine-tuning knowledge which I for one already had, albeit at amateur level. I don’t see that there is anything new or startling in what you’re saying, though I thank you for the insights into leptin which I shall look into further.

There’s a lot new. An amateur understanding of “starvation mode” yields the use of “amateur” methods such as the use of cheat meals or having high calorie days, etc (which either flat out don’t work to manipulate leptin [i.e. cheat meals] or produce sub-par results). When you really understand the research and how the hormone works, then you can set up every single day of the diet to manipulate the hormone, and that’s what I’ve done w/ this program. The way we cycle carbs during the week, etc, is completely unique and completely leptin research based.

Secondly, if you own the every other day diet, then you know Jon recommends a cheat meal every other day…it’s not a cheat day. And while people who advocate cheat “meals” may use the physiological response as a reason to support their use, the research shows that a single meal is not enough to raise leptin levels…its needs to be prolonged overfeeding. The benefits of cheat meals are purely psychological. For physiological benefits, you need prolonged cheating.

Thirdly, I think the term “overfeeding” says it all. “Over” anything rarely comes to any good, and, quite honestly Joel, I find “overfeeding” to be a somewhat vulgar term. Is there a better way of expressing it? I’m serious, by the way, i.e. I’m not saying this for polemical purposes.

Overfeeding is the term used in the medical research to describe consuming higher than maintenance calories, so that’s why we use that term. “Cheating” is a term that everyone can identify with, so that’s why we use that term. If you want a PC term, call them “high carb, fat and and calorie days”…whatever you call them, just be sure to include them.

Finally, you say “you had better learn to master leptin or youâ��re going to be in for one hell of a miserable, LONG ride while sacrificing quite a bit of muscle mass to boot”. That’s as maybe, Joel, but I’m making satisfactory progress and getting results and I’ve only just heard of leptin. And if mastering leptin means “overfeeding” and giving scientific grounding to eating foods that are bad for me, then I’m out on this one.

As I’ve mentioned several times in my replies to questions here, it doesn’t have to be “junk”…it can be cleaner, but it needs to include plenty of very high GI carbs and fat.

Lastly, I’m thrilled to hear about your progress…that’s awesome. As “serious” trainees, we are always looking for ways to improve and be better. While you are progressing now, I know you could go from “satisfactory” to RAPID (with it being more enjoyable and less restrictive) if you learn to implement some of the leptin manipulating strategies I teach in cheat your way thin.

@Amanda – Hi Vince, I’m not sure how comfortable I would be at any age with putting these junk foods into my body. But I really think that as an older person who’s metabolism has really started to slow down that eating this stuff for any reason would be counterproductive. Can you comment?

@Vince – No more questions, Vince, as I’ve replied to Joel’s observations. But in a recent mail you said you had a forthcoming interview with Jon Benson. Maybe you could raise some of the issues with him and ask him where he differs (if at all) with Joel.

Originally Posted By MaceHello Vince, I found your e-book via Mike Geary’s recommendation last winter. Good stuff from both of you.

One question I would LOVE to get answered…in your book, you recommend hydrolyzed whey protein after the gym. I found something similar at The Vitamin Shop but it had fake sweeteners in it. What brand do you recommend and where can I buy it? Thanks.

Good question. It’s hard to find hydrolized whey and I ll get back to you and some more info on this because I’ve been looking into this more closely myself lately.

Firstly, I did not say anything about your programme not being for “dudes who are serious about being lean”, so my point couldn’t be misguided. I was talking about people who are serious NOT JUST ABOUT being lean, but also about being healthy. As you know, “lean” and “healthy” are not necessarily synonymous terms. Okay, so your leptin levels come into line. But what about when you take your yearly blood test? Cholesterol? Prostate? Organs?

Secondly, I don’t need to defend Jon Benson, and Vince has a big interview coming up with Jon so that should be a great opportunity to raise and address any differences. However, I’ve read enough of Jon’s stuff to know that he does not profess cheat “meals”, but goes whole hog in favour of cheat “days”. Furthermore, my encounter with the issue of “starvation mode” was again via Benson. The same goes for the concept and practice of “calorie staggering”. Also, Benson’s use of “cheating” does not have a purely psychological scope, as you seem to suggest, but actually claims that your junk days are NECESSARY for fat loss (he even said this in an interview, and I wrote in to his blog to say I disagred with him and agreed withi his guest, whose name temporarilyescapes me). That you now add to this the issue of leptin is, in my view, interesting, and, as you say, scientific investigations and findings often overlap, so your contribution is a good one. But for me, you are merely fine-tuning knowledge which I for one already had, albeit at amateur level. I don’t see that there is anything new or startling in what you’re saying, though I thank you for the insights into leptin which I shall look into further.

Thirdly, I think the term “overfeeding” says it all. “Over” anything rarely comes to any good, and, quite honestly Joel, I find “overfeeding” to be a somewhat vulgar term. Is there a better way of expressing it? I’m serious, by the way, i.e. I’m not saying this for polemical purposes.

Finally, you say “you had better learn to master leptin or you’re going to be in for one hell of a miserable, LONG ride while sacrificing quite a bit of muscle mass to boot”. That’s as maybe, Joel, but I’m making satisfactory progress and getting results and I’ve only just heard of leptin. And if mastering leptin means “overfeeding” and giving scientific grounding to eating foods that are bad for me, then I’m out on this one.

Hey Paul, because as you can see Joel knows this better than anyone (as far as I know) so i asked him for permission to post the same information – I mentioned that you may have read this same article on his website – sorry if that annoyed you but this info is THAT critical and you NEED to understand the principles behind the hormone leptin so I post it with his permission.

There are some good nuggets in your post, but also some things that are outdated or disproven with the current research, so just want to provide everyone some clarification. That’s the key here, there is a lot more to learn and all of the latest research is what my program is founded on. (and there will be more to learn next year, too, and the year after that!)

– Keep fat intake as low as possible on these days: insulin levels are high on re-feed day, because of all the high GI carbs, so you don’t want to add fat to your blood stream. With high insulin levels, it becomes much easier for your body to store fat. In addition, fat has little or no effect on leptin levels and our intent is to raise leptin levels as high as possible. Also, high fat levels might boost total calories too much, which can lead to weight gain. By reducing fat to a minimum, you can eat more of the Leptin-Boosting carb foods without taking in too many calories.

While the idea of not combining carbs and fats in significant amounts is a good rule to follow in general for the reasons you mention, it’s not the way to go on cheat days for the reasons I mentioned in my reply to Amanda above.

You actually WANT huge amounts of insulin on the cheat day — as mentioned in the article above, insulin has very strong ties to leptin — and the best way to spike insulin to it’s max is by using high carb, high fat foods. The response is synergystic (you get higher insulin [and leptin] levels by combining carbs + fat that what is possible with carbs alone).

We have tried comparing the two — all out cheat days and controlled carb “refeeds” with hundreds of clients many times over — the all out cheat days win out every single time.

All of the latest research (and empirical “real-world” evidence) shows that carbs + fat is the way to go.

– Don’t eat much table sugar or fruit sugar: of the three types of monosaccharides, glucose, galactose (dairy) and fructose (fruit), glucose and galactose are the only monosaccharides that boost Leptin levels. Sucrose (table sugar), a disaccharide, is half glucose and half fructose. Fructose has little or no effect on Leptin. So it’s best not to eat much sucrose either because fructose doesn’t impact leptin.

It depends on the type of fructose that you are using. If you are eating very low-GI carbs like fruit, then yes, but HFCS (although deadly at any other time for fat loss) produces a high insulin response and has great leptin boosting properties. I’d never recommend high fructose corn syrup at any other time, and certainly not recommending it as the bulk of your calorie intake on cheat days, but if you want to have a couple “regular” Cokes (not diet) on cheat days, that’s more than fine.

A key point to remember is that the leaner you get and the longer you have been dieting on restricted calories, the more important the re-feeding method becomes. If your body fat is high and you are just beginning a fat loss program, you may find that you lose body fat just fine without re-feed days.

This is also true to a point (in that the leaner you get, the more “cheating” you need to do to keep leptin happy and continue to get leaner), but it’s important to realize that leptin levels fall with calorie intake independant of body fat levels.

So, you can certainly still be carrying a lot of body fat and suffer from low leptin levels — just go on a calorie restricted diet for a few weeks. I touched on this in the article above.

Hello Vince, I found your e-book via Mike Geary’s recommendation last winter. Good stuff from both of you.

One question I would LOVE to get answered…in your book, you recommend hydrolyzed whey protein after the gym. I found something similar at The Vitamin Shop but it had fake sweeteners in it. What brand do you recommend and where can I buy it? Thanks.

This sounds interesting but i’m highly skeptical at this point. All we know about this system at the moment is that we can strategically eat junk on cheat days, been informed of a hormone and told alot of the same information over and over again within days. Now i’m not one to write off anything without giving it a try but there is simply not enough info provided thus far. Where is the training methods? Where is the calorie restriction in now cheat periods? I’d have to agree with everyone else one the questions 1. how often do you cheat and is there a limit on how much you eat. For example how many cheat meals do you need to raise your Leptin levels? 2. Why is eating junk more effective than eating healthier counterparts? For example brown rice and some healthy fats?

Keep it real Vince, thats why we love ya.

Peace

Hi Dan,

See some of my responses above to answer your questions.

Also, if you’re on my list, I just sent out another email with more info on carbohydrate cycling that provides another piece of the puzzle.

Originally Posted By AndreAll that leptin stuffs have already been mentioned by Will Brink (author of “Fat Loss Revealed”) and Tom Venuto (author of best-selling “Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle”) for a long time ago. Even Jon Benson use the same strategy on his book “The Every Other Day Diet”.

See my post about Benson above. As for Tom Venuto, he just interviewed me 20-pages worth because he wanted to learn more about leptin! And he was blown away by some of the content I shared with him.

Just because an expert has “mentioned” it, doesn’t mean that there’s not a lot more to learn or a lot more out there. I’m always talking to experts about things that I may have mentinoed previously, but they happen to know a lot more about than I do. It’s a continual learning game, and we all want to keep getting better and better for our readers and customers.

Originally Posted By PaulYo, Vince. What’s up? I have a question: what’s the difference between this theory and what Jon Benson has been saying all along? Perhaps it’s because Jon says that you can “cheat” when you’ve had a great (even very short, but intensive) workout and your muscles are ready to absorb the “junk” as part of the recovery process. I’ve seen pics of Joel and he has a really great body. But when is he going to start talking about workouts in relation to this dietary scheme? Or have I missed something? Apart from that, the stuff about starvation mode, ordering your favourite dessert while staying lean etc. is all Jon’s, at least as far as I’m aware. Credit where credit’s due, right, Vin?

Anyway, I can tell you that I won’t be trying Joel’s scheme as I think it’s a recipe (excuse the pun) for diasaster. We already knew that we don’t need to live like monks and that we can enjoy a beer with a hamburger and french fries without losing sleep over it. I would reverse the psychological thrust of Joel’s argument and say that the lifestyle it entails is one of theoretically grounded indiscipline, more suitable for obese people looking to justify their unhealthy ways than for dudes who are serious not just about being lean, but about being heathy and hence about WHAT they put into their bodies. Your buddy and fan, Paul

Hi Paul!

Jon Benson (who is a great friend of mine) teaches the use of cheat “meals” during a diet — great for a psychological vent, but unfortunately cheat meals don’t do much of anything for leptin or metbolism or avoiding plateaus.

Research has very clearly shown that prolonged overfeeding over the course of a day (and not a single meal) is necessary to restore leptin levels to baseline and create all the physiological benefits that I mentioned in the above article (increased fat burning, metabolism, great fat loss, etc).

As far as credit where credit is due, I’ve been writing for magazines about strategic overfeeding and leptin since 2002, long before Jon’s book was ever published. That, and Jon never mentions leptin ONCE in the every other day diet, so there’s about 200 research papers of science that my program is based on that his isn’t.

Bottom line, as experts we’re sure to have some overlapping theory, and as I mentioned, Jon and I are great friends…but the fact is, when it comes to leptin and metabolism, overfeeding, and starvation mode, there is nobody who has studied it like I have, and this program is the “perfected” model of all my research.

Lastly, your comment about the program not being for “dudes who are serious about being lean” is really misguided, bro! Fact is, the ONLY reason Vince is going from very lean to EXTREMELY lean and seeing the ridiculous results he is seeing right now is because we’ve got him on a plan that includes a full blown cheat day every 5 days (with an extremely strategic plan the other 4 days to maximize the effects of this day).

The leaner you get, the more serious you are about getting leaner, you had better learn to master leptin or you’re going to be in for one hell of a miserable, LONG ride while sacrificing quite a bit of muscle mass to boot.

It’s not about being able to eat a burger and a beer every so often…the psychological stuff is an AFTER effect of the physiological/metabolic effects my program is founded on.

It’s not about saying hey, do this and you “can” order dessert if you want without much damage…it’s not “allowed”…it’s a MUST, and a vital part of why the program works.

Originally Posted By YlwaI started to live the Cheat Your Way lifestyle in June this year in it has been a majore change-maker in my life in so many ways. I can only say thank you, Joel!

For the first time in my life, I have a harmony with my body and my eating habits that I’ve never had before. Being human, I love food and especially in comapny with good friends and wine. But also being body-concious, I’ve always been left with guilt. I’ve never been able to stick to a traditional diet, for three reasons 1) I get bored 2) I’m constanly hungry, with uncontrollable cravings 3) I plateau within three weeks, still maybe half-way towards my goals at best. My motivation dives and I stop

All of these are devestating to you motivation and your physique. For me reason number two has been especially concerning. I suffered from eating disorders when I was younger and the cravings which led to binge-outs brought back all that anxiety every time. The psychological stress from this was too large to put out with. Still I wasn’t 100% confident with how I look, so it was a bit of a catch-22 moment.

Cheat your way thin changed all that. I’ve finally found balance. I know eat the way I’ve always wanted to eat, during weekdays. My cravings are gone, or at least far more controlled. Since you know also kmow that the next “cheat” is never more than a couple of days away, it’s so much easier to hold firm. It almsot becomes like sort of a sport. Should I cheat on a non-cheat day (yes it has happened), come my real cheat day and it just doesn’t feel as rewarding and satisfactory.

The only problem I’ve still struggled with a bit though is my plateaus, especially those last stubborn pounds. I tried switching to the “camel hump approach” but it didn’t do the trick either. Since I don’t do well on low-carb for more than two-three days in a row, a complete low-carb approach is not an option. what can I do to get things moving again?

Thanks

That’s awesome Ylwa! Thanks so much for sharing your experience.

How lean are you currently? What is your percentage body fat? That info will help me better answer your question.

Originally Posted By TwHow can you tell what your leptin level is – when you have eaten enough carbs /fats? Could you get the same effect from eating natural high GI foods such as bananas, mangoes, watermelon, rice, potatoes (with heaps of butter), crusty white bread?

Originally Posted By AmandaI like the article although doesn’t you body want nutrient dense foods not calorie loaded “junk” it probably does more for the mind then the body?

Hey Amanda,

You’re right in saying that being able to eat some pizza and ice cream is a huge psychological boon to any diet, but you may be surprised to learn that these types of food actually work BEST when it comes to boosting leptin levels. Reason being, leptin is very closely tied to the hormone insulin as mentioned in the article above.

Foods like pizza and ice cream and donuts and french fries create a synergystic insulin response (higher than what is possible with carbohydrate alone) due the combination of high glycemic carbohydrates and fat, which gives a better response.

Now, that is not to say that you need to eat “junk” food, but rather that you just need to understand why “junk” food works so well for our purposes, and then replicate those reasons with cleaner items.

Again, french fries, pizza, ice cream, pastries, etc, all combine two things very well—very high glycemic carbohydrates and fats. That is the winning combo. Carbohydate + fat produce a synergistic insulin response beyond what is possible when just using carbs.

And you need to go HIGH GI—yams and oats are OK as part of the day’s menu, but you really need to go higher GI than this. Throw in some bread, the rice and pasta are good, maybe some crackers, Gatorade, etc.

Bottom line, high GI carbs + fat wins out. Whether you want that to be pizza or whole wheat toast with all natural peanut butter is up to you. I’d certainly take the pizza on a “cheat” day, but hey, to each his own 😉

Originally Posted By PaulYo, Vince. What’s up? I have a question: what’s the difference between this theory and what Jon Benson has been saying all along? Perhaps it’s because Jon says that you can “cheat” when you’ve had a great (even very short, but intensive) workout and your muscles are ready to absorb the “junk” as part of the recovery process. I’ve seen pics of Joel and he has a really great body. But when is he going to start talking about workouts in relation to this dietary scheme? Or have I missed something? Apart from that, the stuff about starvation mode, ordering your favourite dessert while staying lean etc. is all Jon’s, at least as far as I’m aware. Credit where credit’s due, right, Vin?

Anyway, I can tell you that I won’t be trying Joel’s scheme as I think it’s a recipe (excuse the pun) for diasaster. We already knew that we don’t need to live like monks and that we can enjoy a beer with a hamburger and french fries without losing sleep over it. I would reverse the psychological thrust of Joel’s argument and say that the lifestyle it entails is one of theoretically grounded indiscipline, more suitable for obese people looking to justify their unhealthy ways than for dudes who are serious not just about being lean, but about being heathy and hence about WHAT they put into their bodies. Your buddy and fan, Paul

Very fair points Paul.

1. Thanks for the compliments.

2. The workouts that accompany this program are being released in February but you can still use any program with the nutrition system.

3. Are you referring to Jon’s Every Other Day Diet program? There is similar science in attacking conventional dieting. From personal experience, I would say Jon’s program is for the busy person who is not looking to get SHREDDED or photo shoot ready (although Jon would argue you could use his plan for this as I know he has personally) but to just get ready of the first huge amount of fat for someone really big.

4. Joel’s program does have an INSANE cheat day which allows you to eat ANYTHING but the other days are much more tough to follow. For example, he incorporates fast days into the program which are mentally tough for some people. They have some overlapping science and philosophies BUT the plans are quite different.

– Keep fat intake as low as possible on these days: insulin levels are high on re-feed day, because of all the high GI carbs, so you don’t want to add fat to your blood stream. With high insulin levels, it becomes much easier for your body to store fat. In addition, fat has little or no effect on leptin levels and our intent is to raise leptin levels as high as possible. Also, high fat levels might boost total calories too much, which can lead to weight gain. By reducing fat to a minimum, you can eat more of the Leptin-Boosting carb foods without taking in too many calories.

– Don’t eat much table sugar or fruit sugar: of the three types of monosaccharides, glucose, galactose (dairy) and fructose (fruit), glucose and galactose are the only monosaccharides that boost Leptin levels. Sucrose (table sugar), a disaccharide, is half glucose and half fructose. Fructose has little or no effect on Leptin. So it’s best not to eat much sucrose either because fructose doesn’t impact leptin.

A key point to remember is that the leaner you get and the longer you have been dieting on restricted calories, the more important the re-feeding method becomes. If your body fat is high and you are just beginning a fat loss program, you may find that you lose body fat just fine without re-feed days.

This sounds interesting but i’m highly skeptical at this point. All we know about this system at the moment is that we can strategically eat junk on cheat days, been informed of a hormone and told alot of the same information over and over again within days. Now i’m not one to write off anything without giving it a try but there is simply not enough info provided thus far. Where is the training methods? Where is the calorie restriction in now cheat periods? I’d have to agree with everyone else one the questions 1. how often do you cheat and is there a limit on how much you eat. For example how many cheat meals do you need to raise your Leptin levels? 2. Why is eating junk more effective than eating healthier counterparts? For example brown rice and some healthy fats?

All that leptin stuffs have already been mentioned by Will Brink (author of “Fat Loss Revealed”) and Tom Venuto (author of best-selling “Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle”) for a long time ago. Even Jon Benson use the same strategy on his book “The Every Other Day Diet”.

This post give us the feeling that Joel discovered this “new hormone” and that it will change everyone’s life. =P

You can have the best training workout and nutrition, but you will always fail in the long run if you’re not psychologically prepared. (it means that that “12 week transformation” is BS, since the majority gain all the weight back).

Yo, Vince. What’s up? I have a question: what’s the difference between this theory and what Jon Benson has been saying all along? Perhaps it’s because Jon says that you can “cheat” when you’ve had a great (even very short, but intensive) workout and your muscles are ready to absorb the “junk” as part of the recovery process. I’ve seen pics of Joel and he has a really great body. But when is he going to start talking about workouts in relation to this dietary scheme? Or have I missed something? Apart from that, the stuff about starvation mode, ordering your favourite dessert while staying lean etc. is all Jon’s, at least as far as I’m aware. Credit where credit’s due, right, Vin?

Anyway, I can tell you that I won’t be trying Joel’s scheme as I think it’s a recipe (excuse the pun) for diasaster. We already knew that we don’t need to live like monks and that we can enjoy a beer with a hamburger and french fries without losing sleep over it. I would reverse the psychological thrust of Joel’s argument and say that the lifestyle it entails is one of theoretically grounded indiscipline, more suitable for obese people looking to justify their unhealthy ways than for dudes who are serious not just about being lean, but about being heathy and hence about WHAT they put into their bodies. Your buddy and fan, Paul

I started to live the Cheat Your Way lifestyle in June this year in it has been a majore change-maker in my life in so many ways. I can only say thank you, Joel!

For the first time in my life, I have a harmony with my body and my eating habits that I’ve never had before. Being human, I love food and especially in comapny with good friends and wine. But also being body-concious, I’ve always been left with guilt. I’ve never been able to stick to a traditional diet, for three reasons 1) I get bored 2) I’m constanly hungry, with uncontrollable cravings 3) I plateau within three weeks, still maybe half-way towards my goals at best. My motivation dives and I stop

All of these are devestating to you motivation and your physique. For me reason number two has been especially concerning. I suffered from eating disorders when I was younger and the cravings which led to binge-outs brought back all that anxiety every time. The psychological stress from this was too large to put out with. Still I wasn’t 100% confident with how I look, so it was a bit of a catch-22 moment.

Cheat your way thin changed all that. I’ve finally found balance. I know eat the way I’ve always wanted to eat, during weekdays. My cravings are gone, or at least far more controlled. Since you know also kmow that the next “cheat” is never more than a couple of days away, it’s so much easier to hold firm. It almsot becomes like sort of a sport. Should I cheat on a non-cheat day (yes it has happened), come my real cheat day and it just doesn’t feel as rewarding and satisfactory.

The only problem I’ve still struggled with a bit though is my plateaus, especially those last stubborn pounds. I tried switching to the “camel hump approach” but it didn’t do the trick either. Since I don’t do well on low-carb for more than two-three days in a row, a complete low-carb approach is not an option. what can I do to get things moving again?

How can you tell what your leptin level is – when you have eaten enough carbs /fats? Could you get the same effect from eating natural high GI foods such as bananas, mangoes, watermelon, rice, potatoes (with heaps of butter), crusty white bread?