So I'm reading National Review Online, and I come across an article entitled "Vae Victis". And it made me smile. It also includes the actual history of the Latin phrase, from Livy's History of Rome. For anyone who is interested, here is the link*:

Especially make sure to follow the asterisk, as it gives a pronunciation and the end of the story, which is a nice humorous twist.

*Bear in mind that this is an online companion to an American journal of conservative political thought. Some of you will disagree with the opinions expressed in the article; that's not why I mentioned the article. I am in no way foolish enough to bring politics into this forum! :) I am only providing the link as a reference to the story behind Kain's favorite phrase. Therefore, I politely request that no discussion be made in this thread of the opinions of the article, but rather be limited to the historical aspect. If you still wish to discuss the issue with me, then feel free to PM me, as I love to discuss politics! :D

Secrets Of Nosgoth

22nd Aug 2002, 07:50

Interesting article. But "WHY WEEK-tis," has our favorite good-bad-guy got it wrong all this time. Without the "V" sound, I think it lost its flavor.

Rook

22nd Aug 2002, 08:11

Nah, Kain didn't get it wrong. It's a Latin dialect spoken only in Nosgoth. :D ;)

Serul

22nd Aug 2002, 11:43

It's not a Latin dialect, it's ancient Nosgothian. Which Kain was forced to learn when he was younger from the local teacher/priest. ;) :D

warpsavant

22nd Aug 2002, 19:13

I thought it was Vae Victus all this time....

Secrets Of Nosgoth

22nd Aug 2002, 20:05

Reading that article led me to focus on the fact it was a fairly recent German dialect that called it WHY WEEK-tis. Goofy german's, it's a V not a W. :D

Umah Bloodomen

22nd Aug 2002, 20:08

Originally posted by Secrets Of Nosgoth
Reading that article led me to focus on the fact it was a fairly recent German dialect that called it WHY WEEK-tis. Goofy german's, it's a V not a W. :D

The 'W' in German is meant to sound like a 'V'.

Take for example: Willkommen

pronounced : Vil-com-in

Serul

22nd Aug 2002, 20:39

Originally posted by Umah Bloodomen

The 'W' in German is meant to sound like a 'V'.

Take for example: Willkommen

pronounced : Vil-com-in
Uh... no it's not. ;)

It's not pronounced as a 'V', it's just pronounced as a common 'W'.

Umah Bloodomen

22nd Aug 2002, 21:48

I just don't get "freaky deaky Dutch".
(You'd have to see Goldmember to get that...I wasn't insulting you.) ;)

Over here, everyone I have encountered that can actually speak somewhat German (LOL) makes it sound like a 'V' instead of a 'W'. I blame our educational system. LOL ;) :p

Serul

23rd Aug 2002, 20:47

Originally posted by Umah Bloodomen
Over here, everyone I have encountered that can actually speak somewhat German (LOL) makes it sound like a 'V' instead of a 'W'. I blame our educational system. LOL ;) :p
In some cartoons or movies for that matter, I noticed that every time an American actor is speaking German or speaking English with a German accent, they do that.
Also whenever a Dutch character is represented in a cartoon or movie they give him a German accent, what's up with that. lol :)

I don't know maybe it's an American thing. lol :D ;)

And we'll have to wait for that Golmember movie here, don't know when that's coming here. I did just saw a trailer for Signs on TV, which is great (September 5th). Strange thing is though they show Signs sooner then Resident Evil. :confused:

Amazeroth

23rd Aug 2002, 22:01

Umah is right. The German W is pronounced like the English V. In fact there is no such sound as the English W in German. Save in German with English dialect, maybe ^^
Don't mind me I just happened to stumble across this thread and saw an opportunity to act like a smartass again...

Umah Bloodomen

23rd Aug 2002, 23:39

Originally posted by Serul

In some cartoons or movies for that matter, I noticed that every time an American actor is speaking German or speaking English with a German accent, they do that.
Also whenever a Dutch character is represented in a cartoon or movie they give him a German accent, what's up with that. lol :)

I don't know maybe it's an American thing. lol :D ;)

And we'll have to wait for that Golmember movie here, don't know when that's coming here. I did just saw a trailer for Signs on TV, which is great (September 5th). Strange thing is though they show Signs sooner then Resident Evil. :confused:

Goldmember isn't half as good as The Spy Who Shagged Me but it has some cute parts.
As for Signs I've seen it twice and it remains just as good as The Sixth Sense in my opinion. Has a lot of Hitchcock-esque elements and I recommend it highly.

BTW - M. Night Shyamalan is my hero. ;)

Lady Kreliana

24th Aug 2002, 04:28

I remember a certain German figure skater named Katarina Witt. Her name was always pronounced Katarina Vitt.

Also, once I had to sing a song in German. All the Ws were Vs. :)

Umah Bloodomen

24th Aug 2002, 04:35

See, I don't feel so crazy now for mispronouncing German.... do you see what virtues they instill in our little American heads Serul? :p ;)

Serul

24th Aug 2002, 06:55

You poor little souls... :p :D ;)

Serul

24th Aug 2002, 19:12

If anybody is interrested then this (http://www.salue.de/hoerenundsehen/index.shtml) is a link to a German radio station. If oyu click on the green play button on the right, it should open live webcast radio (in Realplayer or WinAmp).

Listen and hear for yourself. ;) :p

darien_specter

3rd Sep 2002, 06:48

Without having listened to the radio station link (because I have no time to do so, gotta get to bed and go to class tomorrow) I can point out these sources of "W=V" in German:

My German teacher in college, who was herself from Germany and taught us to say it that way.

My pastor's wife, a native of Bavaria, who says it that way.

My dialect teacher, who admonished us constantly against overdoing an accent, yet still taught us to say it that way. He also spent a year living in Germany.

And lastly (and most important to me, anyway!) my father, who grew up speaking the language. And always says it that way. And taught it to me that way.

Sorry, Serul, but when all the German-speaking/native people I know pronounce "Vilkommen" I can't help but believe them... Who told you German was pronounced that way? Now I will point out that the Germans I know who learned English (in school, for instance) well pronounce English words with W's correctly; "Welcome," not "Velcome." Maybe you're thinking of that? :)

You'll like this, though... I for one have a more accurate impression of Dutch prononciation than "Goldmember"... when I took a phonetics class, my teacher was Dutch. (I always thought it a little funny that I was learning the phonetics of American English from a Dutchman, but it went well!) I can't reproduce it for anything... but at least I sort of know what it sounds like... you'd think that, if they cared about their production (play/film/whatever) they'd go to the effort to get it right. That depresses me... :(

Serul

3rd Sep 2002, 20:54

Now I just don't know anymore. What have they been teaching me then? I know I suck at German but... oh well... no use to keep talking about it. :)

necropotence

4th Sep 2002, 03:34

I took three year's of Latin there is no real pronunciation for latin but it is widely accepted that V's are pronounced as W's.:D

Persephone Coorhagen

4th Sep 2002, 04:35

I also studied Latin for three years, and I was taught that Vs can be pronounced as they are in English or as Ws. Either way is acceptable. Personally, I prefer the V sound, especially for a phrase like Vae Victis.
I also think that - someone please correct me if I'm wrong - to be grammatically correct, it should be Vae Victum, shouldn't it be?

necropotence

16th Sep 2002, 11:25

It's translation is woe to the vanquished so vae victum would be woe to the vanquish right? Oh! and just for the record Latin is a dead language so it's not improper to pronounce it Vae Victus.