This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the FAQ and RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate and remove the ads - it's free!

Times': Hospital chain uncovers unneeded heart procedures

This kind of stuff is disgusting and its being uncovered all the time. This is a NON partisan issue since Conservatives and Liberals lives and the lives of their families are at stake.
This is why im against for PROFIT health care. Too many times the "PROFIT" over rides everything else and the real focus of healthcare.
Special thank you to the nurse who brought this to the forefront for investigation.

Ive said this many times...not all PROFIT is good profit...or just profit or should be allowed to be made

Some cardiologists in the nation's largest for-profit hospital chain have been performing lucrative but sometimes unnecessary procedures that in some cases put patient lives at risk, The New York Times reports.
The newspaper says HCA, which operates 163 facilities, has "uncovered evidence as far back as 2002 and as recently as late 2010 showing that some cardiologists at several of its hospitals in Florida were unable to justify many of the procedures they were performing."
Physicians sometimes made misleading statements in medical records that made it appear the procedures were necessary, according to HCA internal reports reviewed by the Times. The documents don't detail the number of such procedures or how many patients died or were injured, but they "suggest that the problems at HCA went beyond a rogue doctor or two," the Times reports.

HCA began its investigation when a nurse at Lawnwood Regional Medical Center in Fort Pierce, Fla., expressed concerns. At Lawnwood, where a test known as a cardiac catheterization is performed, about half the procedures, or 1,200, involved patients without significant heart disease, the Times says, citing a confidential 2010 review.

Re: Times': Hospital chain uncovers unneeded heart procedures

When a "business" is for profit it is always going to put money ahead of people. Virtually every business will try to sell you on things you dont need. They want to make you think you need them so they can get more money out of you and therefore increase their profits. It is largely true that they don't care about you. A customer is always secondary to profit. As long as we have for profit hospitals and as long as our medical care in this country is run by $$$$ these will continue to happen. I dont know what the solution is, and free healthcare is not it but neither is the current process.

“Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
― Stephen R. Covey

Re: Times': Hospital chain uncovers unneeded heart procedures

Originally Posted by lpast

This kind of stuff is disgusting and its being uncovered all the time. This is a NON partisan issue since Conservatives and Liberals lives and the lives of their families are at stake.
This is why im against for PROFIT health care. Too many times the "PROFIT" over rides everything else and the real focus of healthcare.
Special thank you to the nurse who brought this to the forefront for investigation.

Ive said this many times...not all PROFIT is good profit...or just profit or should be allowed to be made

Some cardiologists in the nation's largest for-profit hospital chain have been performing lucrative but sometimes unnecessary procedures that in some cases put patient lives at risk, The New York Times reports.
The newspaper says HCA, which operates 163 facilities, has "uncovered evidence as far back as 2002 and as recently as late 2010 showing that some cardiologists at several of its hospitals in Florida were unable to justify many of the procedures they were performing."
Physicians sometimes made misleading statements in medical records that made it appear the procedures were necessary, according to HCA internal reports reviewed by the Times. The documents don't detail the number of such procedures or how many patients died or were injured, but they "suggest that the problems at HCA went beyond a rogue doctor or two," the Times reports.

HCA began its investigation when a nurse at Lawnwood Regional Medical Center in Fort Pierce, Fla., expressed concerns. At Lawnwood, where a test known as a cardiac catheterization is performed, about half the procedures, or 1,200, involved patients without significant heart disease, the Times says, citing a confidential 2010 review.

You know that "convention" your heart surgeon went to last year? The one where he was supposed to be learning cutting-edge technique? The most popularly attended seminars are in "How to increase my business."

Re: Times': Hospital chain uncovers unneeded heart procedures

Do not discount that many procedures are CYA for malpractice. They don't need to do them,
but if they don't and something goes wrong, they are found at fault for not doing everything possible.
I am not saying they are right, only that there may be other reasons besides profit.

Re: Times': Hospital chain uncovers unneeded heart procedures

This is the single biggest problem with the American medical system. Its one big giant moral hazard in which doctors have the incentive to proscribe unneeded treatment as a means of profit. What we really need is create a division so that the person making a diagnosis and the person profiting from the treatment aren't the same person.

Re: Times': Hospital chain uncovers unneeded heart procedures

Originally Posted by lpast

This kind of stuff is disgusting and its being uncovered all the time. This is a NON partisan issue since Conservatives and Liberals lives and the lives of their families are at stake.
This is why im against for PROFIT health care. Too many times the "PROFIT" over rides everything else and the real focus of healthcare.
Special thank you to the nurse who brought this to the forefront for investigation.

Ive said this many times...not all PROFIT is good profit...or just profit or should be allowed to be made

Some cardiologists in the nation's largest for-profit hospital chain have been performing lucrative but sometimes unnecessary procedures that in some cases put patient lives at risk, The New York Times reports.
The newspaper says HCA, which operates 163 facilities, has "uncovered evidence as far back as 2002 and as recently as late 2010 showing that some cardiologists at several of its hospitals in Florida were unable to justify many of the procedures they were performing."
Physicians sometimes made misleading statements in medical records that made it appear the procedures were necessary, according to HCA internal reports reviewed by the Times. The documents don't detail the number of such procedures or how many patients died or were injured, but they "suggest that the problems at HCA went beyond a rogue doctor or two," the Times reports.

HCA began its investigation when a nurse at Lawnwood Regional Medical Center in Fort Pierce, Fla., expressed concerns. At Lawnwood, where a test known as a cardiac catheterization is performed, about half the procedures, or 1,200, involved patients without significant heart disease, the Times says, citing a confidential 2010 review.

Re: Times': Hospital chain uncovers unneeded heart procedures

Originally Posted by longview

Do not discount that many procedures are CYA for malpractice. They don't need to do them,
but if they don't and something goes wrong, they are found at fault for not doing everything possible.
I am not saying they are right, only that there may be other reasons besides profit.

That's really not what is going on with HCA.

They don't have enough "pumps" to go around.. and newer medications mean you don't need so many $10K stents.

HCA did this before back in the 1990s when Rick Scott was running the show.

Re: Times': Hospital chain uncovers unneeded heart procedures

They don't have enough "pumps" to go around.. and newer medications mean you don't need so many $10K stents.

HCA did this before back in the 1990s when Rick Scott was running the show.

In fact they are opening themselves up to serious litigation risk by performing these unnecessary procedures. A cardiac catheter involves running a wire from your groin all the way into your heart. It is a risky procedure and it's totally irresponsible to perform one where it isn't clinically necessary. It's not like ordering a few extra blood tests.

"The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

Re: Times': Hospital chain uncovers unneeded heart procedures

Originally Posted by AdamT

In fact they are opening themselves up to serious litigation risk by performing these unnecessary procedures. A cardiac catheter involves running a wire from your groin all the way into your heart. It is a risky procedure and it's totally irresponsible to perform one where it isn't clinically necessary. It's not like ordering a few extra blood tests.

They paid millions in fines last go round and set up an ethics committee..