It's so sad. Zimbabwe was a country every African wanted to go to in the early 90's. It had proper infrastructure and was really good, just like modern day South Africa. Things have now gone from bad to worse. Apparently, Mugabe has a P.H.D. Does this mean his education has not helped the nation or what? I remember in 1982 when Kenya first played Zimbabwe in rugby, both teams were all white yet they were African sides . Anyway, alot has changed nowadays, and Kenya now has an all black african side. In 7s, when we meet New Zealand, we often say the real blacks vs the all blacks.

eal22 wrote:Everything has collapsed in Zimbabwe, including cricket. With the introduction of bond notes the demise of the nation is complete. Mugabe's death may unleash even worse governance, likely military lead. Zimbabweans as a group are too apathetic to rise up which helps keep the peace to a degree but also leads to politicians who do not fear reprisal.

Apathy, no, not apathy. Fear. Total and utter fear. The Armed forces are here to control the masses, you may get out there and demonstrate for your rights and lose you life but it won't end there, your family will suffer for your 'transgression'. If you go to the police they are more likely to spit in your face then assist. Yes, there are millions of people who are oppressed but the intelligence agencies are one of the best funded and very often there is an agent in any organisation counted as subversive. The head of any group is most efficiently and cleanly incised and disappeared, leaving a vacuum.

I believe it is a degree of apathy. Cricket is a good example of this. The players go on strike demanding better treatment but they always fold once a few of the senior guys get promised $25 and a few KFC vouchers, they are happy to sell out the younger players as long as they get a few bucks for themselves. If the players held strong Zimbabwe Cricket (ZC) might actually fear them, but ZC knows the boys will always fold.

In 1992 Zimbabwe became a cricket test nation, entering the select group of cricket's world nobility, having the right to face the best teams, while rugby started its decline, playing the RWC for the last time in 1991. What happened in those years to have one sport going one direction and the other another direction? I guess both in Rhodesian times were white people's sports, right?

victorsra wrote:In 1992 Zimbabwe became a cricket test nation, entering the select group of cricket's world nobility, having the right to face the best teams, while rugby started its decline, playing the RWC for the last time in 1991. What happened in those years to have one sport going one direction and the other another direction? I guess both in Rhodesian times were white people's sports, right?

Yes totally white sports, despite a few blacks being involved, none made the grade in the national teams until nearly a decade after independence. The reason for the rise of cricket and decline in rugby was due to cricket getting huge funding from the ICC as a test nation and every sponsor in Zimbabwe wanting to be a part of that success and rugby's decline, which had been happening since the 70s by the way. (Rhodesia competed on equal footing with all the major SA provinces in the 70s so would have been a serious national team then.) The white population has been reducing since the 70s and this is the main reason as the blacks had always seen it as a whites only sport. That perception has changed now and this is why there was a resurgence of the game in the early 2000s.

@eal22. There is a constant complaint from the players regarding pay and the local matches are more often than not cancelled due to player strikes so no you are incorrect in your assumption. Quite often the police are sent in to quell player revolts too to add to the intimidation. Once again I am telling you it is not apathy.

How is schools rugby and cricket in Zim? In Kenya, one of the main reasons cricket declined after 2003, was that the sport is not inculcated in the school curriculum. Only a few private schools play cricket, mostly Indian schools. The total number could be about 10 schools in the whole republic, while rugby is played in virtually every school, estate, county and playground, leading to it's massive growth due to the 7s team success.

Cricket is near collapse in Zimbabwe so it hasn't really gone in the opposite direction from Rugby. With the domestic cricket competition now not getting underway Zimbabwe is coming perilously close to losing its full-member status. Schools cricket is in sharp decline and most facilities are now dilapidated. ZC will occasionally send some idiot to a local village with a few cricket balls under the guise of spreading the game but invariably the money for development goes missing and no further work is done. Rugby is fortunate that it has had no money, it has kept the Zanoid parasites away for the last few years.

Neptune wrote:How is schools rugby and cricket in Zim? In Kenya, one of the main reasons cricket declined after 2003, was that the sport is not inculcated in the school curriculum. Only a few private schools play cricket, mostly Indian schools. The total number could be about 10 schools in the whole republic, while rugby is played in virtually every school, estate, county and playground, leading to it's massive growth due to the 7s team success.

Schools sports in Zimbabwe are very healthy. Most schools have a strong program of competitions and with the schoolboys team playing in the Craven week there is a big incentive to play. Most players are scouted for SA schools and there is a huge mount of young talent in the SA system. Cricket doesn't have a Craven Week incentive but, as in rugby, there are a lot of talented players in other major test nations that have come up through the schools system. Even government funded schools are well supported. The main schools derby matches can easily get crowds of 2000+ whereas a national club match will be lucky to get 10% of that.

@eal22 - Please can you tell me the basis of your information because it is not accurate at all.

Neptune wrote:How is schools rugby and cricket in Zim? In Kenya, one of the main reasons cricket declined after 2003, was that the sport is not inculcated in the school curriculum. Only a few private schools play cricket, mostly Indian schools. The total number could be about 10 schools in the whole republic, while rugby is played in virtually every school, estate, county and playground, leading to it's massive growth due to the 7s team success.

Schools sports in Zimbabwe are very healthy. Most schools have a strong program of competitions and with the schoolboys team playing in the Craven week there is a big incentive to play. Most players are scouted for SA schools and there is a huge mount of young talent in the SA system. Cricket doesn't have a Craven Week incentive but, as in rugby, there are a lot of talented players in other major test nations that have come up through the schools system. Even government funded schools are well supported. The main schools derby matches can easily get crowds of 2000+ whereas a national club match will be lucky to get 10% of that.

@eal22 - Please can you tell me the basis of your information because it is not accurate at all.

So, where does the problem come in? Because, I fail to understand how school rugby and cricket get numbers to the tune of 2000, while Club games can't even get 10% of that. Where do these kids go to when they finish school?

@Sables4EVA, what information do you dispute? The Logan Cup is currently cancelled, with only one game having been partially played. Players have not received their salaries and have been told to now prepare for the ZPL instead. This does not sound like cricket is in good health.

Steve Mangongo does some good work identifying talent, but age-group cricket is still a mess with 200 kids showing up to a one day trial and then a team being "selected", so many good young players are overlooked due to their parents not being able to pay for a spot in teams. Many schools do still have strong cricket programs but they are struggling to get by for the most part. Many club facilities are now in ruin. Yet ZC sees fit to overlook dereliction and continue spreading the game to townships with piecemeal efforts that will never work. Showing up with 20 balls and a bat is not going to uncover the next Andy Flower.

As for ZCs corruption, that is well document. Ozias Bvute, Alistair Campbell, Peter Chingoka, etc have been using the place as their own tuck shop. At least Campbell would get things done however.

eal22 wrote:@Sables4EVA, what information do you dispute? The Logan Cup is currently cancelled, with only one game having been partially played. Players have not received their salaries and have been told to now prepare for the ZPL instead. This does not sound like cricket is in good health.

Steve Mangongo does some good work identifying talent, but age-group cricket is still a mess with 200 kids showing up to a one day trial and then a team being "selected", so many good young players are overlooked due to their parents not being able to pay for a spot in teams. Many schools do still have strong cricket programs but they are struggling to get by for the most part. Many club facilities are now in ruin. Yet ZC sees fit to overlook dereliction and continue spreading the game to townships with piecemeal efforts that will never work. Showing up with 20 balls and a bat is not going to uncover the next Andy Flower.

As for ZCs corruption, that is well document. Ozias Bvute, Alistair Campbell, Peter Chingoka, etc have been using the place as their own tuck shop. At least Campbell would get things done however.

First of all, the Logan Cup has not been played for probably a decade or so. There has been other competitions put in place which are being played every year. The provincial system was dissolved in favour of a club based system. The club facilities are far from being in ruin, ZC are funding the upkeep of the facilities and many clubs actually cancel rugby fixtures in favour of cricket games where the fields are shared. The schools are far from struggling and there are regular competitions which include South African schools teams which are very often won by Zim schools and the most successful schools are government controlled schools (Churchill and Prince Edward High Schools). I cannot comment on the promotion of the game in the high density areas as I am not privy to them. As for the corruption involved, that cancer is spread throughout the country so is not a surprise so I won't deny that.

SO I say again, where is your information from, I live here and I have connections to people involved in these organisations or I have seen these with my own eyes. What you are spouting is uninformed rumours and hearsay.

Sables4EVA wrote:First of all, the Logan Cup has not been played for probably a decade or so. There has been other competitions put in place which are being played every year. The provincial system was dissolved in favour of a club based system. The club facilities are far from being in ruin, ZC are funding the upkeep of the facilities and many clubs actually cancel rugby fixtures in favour of cricket games where the fields are shared. The schools are far from struggling and there are regular competitions which include South African schools teams which are very often won by Zim schools and the most successful schools are government controlled schools (Churchill and Prince Edward High Schools). I cannot comment on the promotion of the game in the high density areas as I am not privy to them. As for the corruption involved, that cancer is spread throughout the country so is not a surprise so I won't deny that.

SO I say again, where is your information from, I live here and I have connections to people involved in these organisations or I have seen these with my own eyes. What you are spouting is uninformed rumours and hearsay.

Also, right now the CSA Cubs tournament is ongoing and a Zimbabwean Cubs team is getting hammered by understrength quota-based South African teams.

You may live in Zimbabwe, but you are seriously out of the loop about cricket. Whatever connections you have are not telling you the truth. My connections to cricket in Zimbabwe goes all the way to the players and administrators themselves.

Sables4EVA wrote:First of all, the Logan Cup has not been played for probably a decade or so. There has been other competitions put in place which are being played every year. The provincial system was dissolved in favour of a club based system. The club facilities are far from being in ruin, ZC are funding the upkeep of the facilities and many clubs actually cancel rugby fixtures in favour of cricket games where the fields are shared. The schools are far from struggling and there are regular competitions which include South African schools teams which are very often won by Zim schools and the most successful schools are government controlled schools (Churchill and Prince Edward High Schools). I cannot comment on the promotion of the game in the high density areas as I am not privy to them. As for the corruption involved, that cancer is spread throughout the country so is not a surprise so I won't deny that.

SO I say again, where is your information from, I live here and I have connections to people involved in these organisations or I have seen these with my own eyes. What you are spouting is uninformed rumours and hearsay.

Also, right now the CSA Cubs tournament is ongoing and a Zimbabwean Cubs team is getting hammered by understrength quota-based South African teams.

You may live in Zimbabwe, but you are seriously out of the loop about cricket. Whatever connections you have are not telling you the truth. My connections to cricket in Zimbabwe goes all the way to the players and administrators themselves.

I am not going to go into details but I am also in contact with administrators in all sporting codes in Zimbabwe and not just low level but at the highest levels. The Logan Cup was a provincial tournament and when the franchise system was introduce the Logan Cup was changed due to sponsorship demands. It may have been the same competition but the name has been changed for a long time, they may have renamed it the Logan Cup when the sponsorship ran out though since the franchise system has been dissolved. The CSA Cubs program is an ongoing thing and will take a few years before bearing fruit.

Yes, there are problems here but ZC is in one of the best states as compared to other sporting bodies. It is far from dying and far from being dropped as a test nation. There have been negotiations to bring Ireland and Afghanistan into the test fold too, so why would they drop Zim when we consistently beat them (though we have had a few losses to Afghanistan in the last year.)

@Sables4EVA, there seems to be a media black out on the sables from the Zimbabwean media. I couldn't find any information about them regarding the gold cup 2017 training squad. Do you mind providing a useful link?