If you think I am scared of guns, then you have to admit to being scared of signs.

No, read below. You got so twisted because you can't get past your agnosticism that you completely missed my point.

If there really is a God, I can say with 99% certainty that he doesn't give a flying fuck over whether or not you can own a gun,

You can also say that you're the pretty pretty princess who's going to be the queen of the ball. Say whatever you want, but don't expect me to agree with you, because in both cases, you don't know what you're talking about.

so you can just stop with all the "god given right" bullshit right there. Guns are not sacred.

No, freedom is. And guns are tools that help keep people free.

Like I said, I don't have a problem with guns. I don't have a problem with people owning guns. I don't even have a problem with people carrying guns.

Apparently you do, or you wouldn't be whining on here about how skeery that guy was, when all he was doing was... Owning and carrying a gun! Thanks for playing!

What I do have a problem with, however, are gun nuts. People who don't really give a fuck about anyone else's rights, just as long as they can have their guns.

You got that one as wrong as the God one up above!

People who have bumper stickers that say "You can take my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers." People like you.

Oh yes. People like me. Damn you're good at showing your true colors sometimes! Do you suck your thumb fretting over people "like me"?

It's obsessive behavior and really makes you your own worst enemy.

Like you obsessing over the word God?

I'm willing to bet there wouldn't be as much talk about gun legislation if you don't have nutjobs like this basically getting in your face, screaming "I'M EXERCISING MY RIGHTS!!"

Yep. Because without those "nutjobs" like Heston and La Pierre, we wouldn't HAVE any gun rights left. And you'd be in your little marxist fantasy.

Go on, tell me again how you're somehow even SLIGHTLY conservative.

The more you overtly obsess over your metal dicks, the more people are going to question your behavior, and rightly so.

Heh! And there we have it folks! Wild has a penis complex!

Keep your guns, I don't care. Just shut the fuck up about it already.

Apparently you do. Go suck your thumb baby boy. Big people are talking. You're one sad scarred little fellow with gun and God issues that you REALLY should work out. I pity you.

__________________
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
-Robert A. Heinlein

Oh and why is it illegal to write that about a Democrat president and not illegal to write it about a Republican one?

Who said party affiliation had anything to do with the legality?

Oh, and for the record, despite my thinking he has a right to wear his gun in the open per the law, I would have kept my distance

Originally Posted by Drysdale

god given right

You lost me here. I'm on board with it being a right, but a Constitutional right. Your guns=freedom=god argument is flimsy at best. Do suicide bombers have a right to explosives since they see those as tools of freedom also? I'd disagree.

No, read below. You got so twisted because you can't get past your agnosticism that you completely missed my point.

And you can't get past your own fanaticism enough to see mine. My point is this: you say you are not scared of signs, but the man holding the sign. I say that I am not scared of guns, but am leary of the man holding the guns. I see a man walking around with 2 guns in any public place, I can't help but wonder why. Call me crazy, but that's not something I see every day.

Originally Posted by Drysdale

You can also say that you're the pretty pretty princess who's going to be the queen of the ball. Say whatever you want, but don't expect me to agree with you, because in both cases, you don't know what you're talking about.

Really? Did God appear to you as a burning bush and hand you a stone tablet that says He wants you to be able to hunt deer with an uzi? Methinks you've been burning some bush.

Unless you have some kind of direct link to the divine, you are the one who doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.

Originally Posted by Drysdale

No, freedom is. And guns are tools that help keep people free.

Spoken like a true gun nut.

Originally Posted by Drysdale

Apparently you do, or you wouldn't be whining on here about how skeery that guy was, when all he was doing was... Owning and carrying a gun! Thanks for playing!

And all the other guy was doing was holding a sign. He didn't make any attempts to to kill the president and, unlike your buddy here, didn't have any of the tools necessary to carry out an assassination, unless his fists were registered as lethal weapons. I'm not "whining" about the guy with the guns, I'm bitching about the fucking double standard you gun nuts use when it comes to "rights." You condemn the guy for expressing his opinions then turn around and canonize the guy who shows up to the rally armed to the teeth.

Originally Posted by Drysdale

You got that one as wrong as the God one up above!

Says the guy who condemns the guy for exercising his first amendment right.

Originally Posted by Drysdale

Oh yes. People like me. Damn you're good at showing your true colors sometimes! Do you suck your thumb fretting over people "like me"?

Don't flatter yourself.

Originally Posted by Drysdale

Like you obsessing over the word God?

Riiight.

Originally Posted by Drysdale

Yep. Because without those "nutjobs" like Heston and La Pierre, we wouldn't HAVE any gun rights left.

Right. That's like saying the guy with the feather boa dancing around in assless pants at the gay pride parade is helping to further acceptance of homosexuals.

Originally Posted by Drysdale

Heh! And there we have it folks! Wild has a penis complex!

This coming from the guy with the gun fetish. Too funny.

Originally Posted by Drysdale

Apparently you do.

No, that's your simplicity talking again. You can wrap your head around the fact that my problem isn't with guns, it's with the people who worship them. So, to ease your mind, you tell yourself that I'm afraid of guns, which couldn't be further from the truth.

Guns do one thing and one thing only: they shoot things. There is no rational excuse for bringing them to a town hall meeting. Anyone who doesn't think there is something unusual about such an occurance is hard-core biased, i.e. you.

__________________"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." - Umberto Eco

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson

My point is this: you say you are not scared of signs, but the man holding the sign.

One who is threatening someone.

I say that I am not scared of guns,

You mean those metal penises your'e ranting about a little later?

Unless you have some kind of direct link to the divine, you are the one who doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.

I'm not the one who speakes with "99% certainty" as to God's attitudes. But hey! Thump your chest a little more about how you know what God does and does not want!

Spoken like a true gun nut.

Spoken like a true hoplophobe with penis issues.

And all the other guy was doing was holding a sign.

Calling for the death of the President.

Oh, and which one of those two guys ended up having a niiiiice long talk with the SS?

I guess anyone with a lick of common sense agrees that the fellow was a sad twisted person with issues. Sound like anyone here? (Hint: There's a mirror in your house somewhere, unless you've broken them all in your anti-God hysteria)

Guns do one thing and one thing only: they shoot things. There is no rational excuse for bringing them to a town hall meeting. Anyone who doesn't think there is something unusual about such an occurance is hard-core biased, i.e. you.

Really? Union thugs coming to intimidate and possible harm people they don't agree with don't count as a good reason?

Fuck, man, you're so far off into your penis envy and God hating that you can't even think straight.

__________________
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
-Robert A. Heinlein

Oh, and for the record, despite my thinking he has a right to wear his gun in the open per the law, I would have kept my distance

You lost me here. I'm on board with it being a right, but a Constitutional right. Your guns=freedom=god argument is flimsy at best. Do suicide bombers have a right to explosives since they see those as tools of freedom also? I'd disagree.

If you read the framers of the Constitution, you'll begin to understand that the philosophy they ascribed to included God-Given rights.

The suicide bombers of today were the freedom fighters of yesterday. Did the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto have the right to gasoline to make molotov cocktails?

It's not the item, but the philosophy behind the item that matters.

Originally Posted by Alexander Hamilton

Upon this law, depend the natural rights of mankind, the supreme being gave existence to man, together with the means of preserving and beatifying that existence. He endowed him with rational faculties, by the help of which, to discern and pursue such things, as were consistent with his duty and interest, and invested him with an inviolable right to personal liberty, and personal safety.

__________________
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
-Robert A. Heinlein

Oh, and for the record, despite my thinking he has a right to wear his gun in the open per the law, I would have kept my distance

You lost me here. I'm on board with it being a right, but a Constitutional right. Your guns=freedom=god argument is flimsy at best. Do suicide bombers have a right to explosives since they see those as tools of freedom also? I'd disagree.

Nobody says that Horm, just that when it happened to Bush noone seemed to be in an uproar is all..........

OH and Drys you would love it where i live in small town nd, the one town to the north of me the guys bring their guns into the bar to check em out, my cousins BF bought a big ol elephant killing gun not sure of the caliber but it knocks them all back a step or two everytime they fire it, they do that outside the bar of course.

I used to have a 357 available where i worked but one of the ex bartenders whinned about it to the boss man one day so he removed it, she didnt even work there she thought it was dangerous to the customers i guess, the thing is I am the only one whom would have known how to use it anyway that had access to it so ...... now i have to use the big half of a broken pool stick :P hehe.

You obviously have never owned a 1911 in a .45. They almost make one want to erect a shrine to them. /wipes tear from eye.

My brother in law had a cherry Colt Gold-cup that he sold for next to nothing when his kids were little... Just because my sister didn't want them in the house.... THAT brings a tear to my eye everytime I think of it!

__________________
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
-Robert A. Heinlein

See, now I feel threatened and am questioning my masculinity all in one fell swoop!

__________________
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
-Robert A. Heinlein

__________________"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." - Umberto Eco

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson

Who says I'm not? I have some Deist inclinations, but to say I'm not a Christian isn't true. You're the one who hates God, not I. And Deism accounts for God, as does Christianity. It just explains away all the things you seem to think God should be doing for you that you can't seem to do for yourself, thus your rage. Is THAT why you're so reliant on the Government? Are they your placebo for the empty place in your heart?

__________________
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
-Robert A. Heinlein

My brother in law had a cherry Colt Gold-cup that he sold for next to nothing when his kids were little... Just because my sister didn't want them in the house.... THAT brings a tear to my eye everytime I think of it!

A Colt Gold-cup... I think I would have divorced my wife and kept the gun.

__________________
"All I said was... that bit of halibut is good enough for Jehovah." —Monty Python's "Life of Brian"

Nobody says that Horm, just that when it happened to Bush noone seemed to be in an uproar is all..........

Who is in an uproar? I'm sure some folks are, but who here? All I've been arguing is that it's more than reasonable to detain for questioning someone walking around with a sign calling for the death of the POTUS.

Originally Posted by Drysdale

If you read the framers of the Constitution, you'll begin to understand that the philosophy they ascribed to included God-Given rights.

The suicide bombers of today were the freedom fighters of yesterday. Did the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto have the right to gasoline to make molotov cocktails?

It's not the item, but the philosophy behind the item that matters.

So then you feel you have a God-given right to any and all weapons?

I'm sure that our freedom fighters are delighted to be equated with dynamite-vested religious zealots

No, I realize why YOU think I fail, but the only sad thing here is you. Entrusting law officers to keep the peace isn't to say that I won't defend myself. It's just that A: I'm not paranoid, and B: if I can't defend myself without a gun, I might as well cut my nuts off right now.

Originally Posted by Drysdale

Can you quote the verse of the bible where God says that he doesn't give a shit whether or not we defend ourselves?

Can you quote the verse of the Bible that gives us the right to bear arms?

Originally Posted by Drysdale

Awww! I must've really struck a nerve with Mr Penis envy there!

Nope, just pointing out which one of us truly has the penis envy.

Originally Posted by Drysdale

No, I'm basing the fallibility of your argument, which hovers on the edge of ludicrous.

Yet your only retort is to call me a guy with penis envy who's scared of guns. Surely you can do better than that if my argument is so ludicrous.

Originally Posted by Drysdale

Who says I'm not?

I said that, remember?

Originally Posted by Drysdale

You're the one who hates God

Another untruth from the master. Do you even realize how bumbleresque you're becoming? I say "I don't know that there is a God" and the only conclusion you've drawn is "U H8Z G0D!!1!" THAT is ludicrous.

Originally Posted by Drysdale

It just explains away all the things you seem to think God should be doing for you that you can't seem to do for yourself, thus your rage.

OK, you're making even less sense now. I'm not sure there even IS a God, yet I believe that He is supposed to be doing all these things for me?

Originally Posted by Drysdale

Is THAT why you're so reliant on the Government?

What, exactly, is wrong with relying on the police to do their jobs?

__________________"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." - Umberto Eco

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson

No, I realize why YOU think I fail, but the only sad thing here is you. Entrusting law officers to keep the peace isn't to say that I won't defend myself. It's just that A: I'm not paranoid, and B: if I can't defend myself without a gun, I might as well cut my nuts off right now.

Thanks internet toughguy!

Nope, just pointing out which one of us truly has the penis envy.

I'm not the one with the gun = penis fantasy. I'm just pointing out your fixation because it's core to your failure here.

Can you quote the verse of the Bible that gives us the right to bear arms?

Can you be any dumber? You seem to think that God isn't up with the times or something. This is the most specious argument you've put out in months. This is sad. I guess God doesn't want us to use condoms, penecillin, or internal combustion engines either...

Yet your only retort is to call me a guy with penis envy who's scared of guns. Surely you can do better than that if my argument is so ludicrous.

Why? You ARE a scarred little fellow with God-hate and penis envy. Your own words condemn you.

When you're actually educate yourself, come on back and feel free to discuss things with the big people. Until then, you really should save yourself the embarassment by keeping your yap shut.

__________________
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
-Robert A. Heinlein

A Colt Gold-cup... I think I would have divorced my wife and kept the gun.

I know... It STILL pisses me off, and my oldest nephew's almost 26...

Of course I don't even want to talk about my dad giving away the German WWII era Luger he had...

__________________
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
-Robert A. Heinlein

Who is in an uproar? I'm sure some folks are, but who here? All I've been arguing is that it's more than reasonable to detain for questioning someone walking around with a sign calling for the death of the POTUS.

So then you feel you have a God-given right to any and all weapons?

I'm sure that our freedom fighters are delighted to be equated with dynamite-vested religious zealots

Ahhh! The old "argue to a ridiculous extreme" argument! Nice troll! I haven't seen THAT one in a while!

You didn't answer MY question. Did the jews in the Warsaw Ghetto have the "right" to gasoline to make molotov cocktails? If they had the ability to procure dynamite, or whatever, did they have the "right"?

You're chasing down a rabbit hole.

__________________
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
-Robert A. Heinlein

Ahhh! The old "argue to a ridiculous extreme" argument! Nice troll! I haven't seen THAT one in a while!

You didn't answer MY question. Did the jews in the Warsaw Ghetto have the "right" to gasoline to make molotov cocktails? If they had the ability to procure dynamite, or whatever, did they have the "right"?

You're chasing down a rabbit hole.

No, I'm trying to figure out whether this "God-given right" has limits in your estimation. See, the issue is, I did some searching and I can't find mention of firearms in any of the normal scriptures where most people point to when claiming their God has this or that belief. It's a simple matter of definition and scope I'm looking for. More than that, we've seen you move well off the Constitutional track into some sort of firearm ownership as supernatural birthright. Which is fine, you're entitled to your opinion even if I don't buy it. Personally I imagine God's got bigger fish to fry than whether a manchild from Texas gets to tote his six-shooter around without the cops giving him a hard time.

To answer your question though, Jews did not have the legal rights to procure or deploy weapons in Nazi-controlled countries at the time as I understand it, but I certainly don't begrudge their attempts to do so on moral grounds. Great work Godwinning (Godlosing?) your own thread btw. I think we have a fundamental right to protect ourselves, outside of any government document's blessing, so in that respect we may agree- in some principle at least- I just don't think God's particularly involved in gun control one way or the other. Maybe you have evidence to the contrary?

No, I'm trying to figure out whether this "God-given right" has limits in your estimation. See, the issue is, I did some searching and I can't find mention of firearms in any of the normal scriptures where most people point to when claiming their God has this or that belief. It's a simple matter of definition and scope I'm looking for. More than that, we've seen you move well off the Constitutional track into some sort of firearm ownership as supernatural birthright. Which is fine, you're entitled to your opinion even if I don't buy it. Personally I imagine God's got bigger fish to fry than whether a manchild from Texas gets to tote his six-shooter around without the cops giving him a hard time.

As oppposed to a manchild from Bwastin who can't even decipher the intent of the founding fathers when it's laid out right before them? I love how you can be so dense AND supercilious in parallel!

To answer your question though, Jews did not have the legal rights to procure or deploy weapons in Nazi-controlled countries at the time as I understand it, but I certainly don't begrudge their attempts to do so on moral grounds. Great work Godwinning (Godlosing?) your own thread btw.

Then you answered your own question here. Good job!

I think we have a fundamental right to protect ourselves, outside of any government document's blessing, so in that respect we may agree- in some principle at least- I just don't think God's particularly involved in gun control one way or the other. Maybe you have evidence to the contrary?

Oh, so God has to use primitive people's words to describe a gun before self-defense is a God-given right?

__________________
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
-Robert A. Heinlein

Wow. Can YOU be any dumber? Did I say "Can you quote the verse of the Bible that gives us the right to bear FIREarms?" No, I did not. I realize there weren't guns around when the Bible was written, you dumb shit. Now, do you want to stop with the cleverless deflection and answer the goddamn question?

Originally Posted by Drysdale

I guess God doesn't want us to use condoms

I guess you've never heard of a little thing called Catholicism.

Originally Posted by Drysdale

You ARE a scarred little fellow with God-hate and penis envy. Your own words condemn you.

Good job on falling for media sensationalism. If you'd actually read a little bit about the case, you'd have a better understanding of how you are a moron. In that particular case, Gonzales alleged that the police failed to protect her property interest as is their responsibility as outlined in the due process clause of the 14th amendment. The SCOTUS ruled that she, in fact, had no property interest to protect. Therefore it is the ruling of the court that you fail.

Originally Posted by Drysdale

When you're actually educate yourself

Need I say more?

__________________"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." - Umberto Eco

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson

__________________
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
-Robert A. Heinlein