If the receiver was first registered as pistol, can it ever be converted to a rifle? If so, can it go back to a pistol?

scr83jp

03-28-2009, 11:34 AM

If the receiver was first registered as pistol, can it ever be converted to a rifle? If so, can it go back to a pistol? I asked TC for a copy of the federal court decision on their case involving the contender .Later the ATF wrote their own opinion which differed from the court,don't know if that was ever challenged.

jamesob

03-28-2009, 12:25 PM

if its a tc then yes but any other no.

badicedog

03-28-2009, 12:27 PM

IIRC once a receiver is registered as a Pistol, it can be converted to a rifle but can never be a pistol again.

xxdabroxx

03-28-2009, 12:29 PM

As dumb as it is, once a stock is installed its always a rifle. So stupid...

Could you explain this? I just took another look at the Mech-Tech site & I don't see anything about them encouraging SBRs. They do mention that their item is legal in 49 states & I don't see how that could be if it were an SBR.

The Raisuli

xLusi0n

03-29-2009, 10:01 AM

I think he means if the ATF letter is true, then it contradicts Mech Tech's claims that's its legal in 49 states.

yellowfin

03-29-2009, 11:34 AM

Can we get any support for getting SBR's taken off the NFA list?

hoffmang

03-29-2009, 12:01 PM

Can we get any support for getting SBR's taken off the NFA list?

At an appropriate time, yes.

-Gene

ke6guj

03-29-2009, 12:53 PM

Back in November, I emailed Mech-Tech asking them if it was legal to go pistol>rifle>pistol. It took multiple emails to get a response.

Hello Jack - interesting - I will have to look into this and maybe you can too.
Thanks

Jack wrote:
I am interested in your product, but have some questions.

Do you have any info that documents that you can convert a pistol into a
rifle and back to a pistol legally. I am aware of ATF's position that once
you convert the pistol into a rifle, if a less than 16" barrel is placed on
it, regardless of the stock, that it is now an Short-barreled rifle, since
it would have been made from a rifle. Basically, once a rifle, always a
rifle. They do not hold the Thompson Contender ruling to apply to any other
firearms, since it did not specifically rule on the converting back and
forth, just that the collection of parts did not constitute an SBR since
there was a legal method to use all the parts, such as, assemble as a pistol
or a rifle. They did not get into pistol>rifle>pistol questions.

So, if you have any documentation confirming that pistol>rifle>pistol is
legal that you can forward, I'd appreciate it so that I can purchase one of
your carbine conversions.

Thanks, Jack

I then responded with this,

Thank you for the response.

This is why I am concerned about it.

Dear __________________:

This is in reply to your correspondence which was received by the Firearms Technology Branch, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), on January 30, 2008. In your letter you inquire about the attachment of a folding stock to a pistol having a barrel length of 16 inches or greater.

As background, 27 CFR Sec. 479.11 (Meaning of Terms) states, in part:

The overall length of a weapon made from a shotgun or rifle is the distance between the extreme ends of the weapon measured along a line parallel to the center line of the bore.

Based on this description of overall length and its correct measurement, ATF has taken the position that firearms having folding or collapsible stocks are properly measured for overall length with the stock fully extended.

In the situation you present, the attachment of a folding shoulder stock to a pistol having a barrel length of 16 inches or greater would be lawful as long as the overall length of the resulting firearm is at least 26 inches with the stock fully extended. We caution that, because the configuration you have specified results in the manufacture of a rifle, a subsequent reconfiguration of the firearm to a pistol configuration would result in a weapon made from a rifle, which is a weapon controlled by the National Firearms Act (NFA).

We thank you for your inquiry and trust that the foregoing has been responsive.

Sincerely yours,

John R. Spencer
Chief, Firearms Technology Branch

There is at least one other letter floating around the internet basically stating the same thing. I attached the jpgs of the first one I found. I like the idea of the carbine conversion, but if it forever “taints” my 1911 receiver as a rifle, then I don’t think I would be very interested.

Thanks, Jack.

Never heard back after that. Pretty bad when a potential customer asks if a product is legal, and they don't have an answer.

bohoki

03-29-2009, 4:17 PM

Could you explain this? I just took another look at the Mech-Tech site & I don't see anything about them encouraging SBRs. They do mention that their item is legal in 49 states & I don't see how that could be if it were an SBR.

The Raisuli

i'll explain

in the atf letter they say that if an uzi pistol is made into a rifle it cannot be turned into a pistol again without registering it as a shor barreled rifle

yet mech tech is encouraging turning a pistol into a rifle
and telling customers that it is reversable(i assume legally without having to register your gun with the atf) they have no disclaimer

if it is illegal they have encouraged countless individuals in making many unregistered short barreled rifles out of their standard handguns and if any were sold whoa imagine the trouble the buyer may be the unsuspecting owner of an unregistered sbr

Mech-Tech manufactures a Carbine Conversion Unit (CCU), which will turn the pistol into a handy short rifle. The resulting combination operates in semi-auto mode just as the pistol and fires the same pistol ammunition. The conversion requires no modifications to the pistol and is totally reversible.

http://www.mechtechsys.com/

Mulay El Raisuli

03-30-2009, 6:58 AM

i'll explain

in the atf letter they say that if an uzi pistol is made into a rifle it cannot be turned into a pistol again without registering it as a shor barreled rifle

yet mech tech is encouraging turning a pistol into a rifle
and telling customers that it is reversable(i assume legally without having to register your gun with the atf) they have no disclaimer

if it is illegal they have encouraged countless individuals in making many unregistered short barreled rifles out of their standard handguns and if any were sold whoa imagine the trouble the buyer may be the unsuspecting owner of an unregistered sbr

http://www.mechtechsys.com/

That (along with what ke6guj presented) is a very interesting point that I had not considered.

Yet, the company remains in business & I haven't heard of anyone being arrested for this. I'm thinking that there's more to it. Something we're missing. But my desire to run out & buy one is now quite a bit less than before.