Steam is now offering a
pre-purchase bonus for Empire: Total War, offering those who buy the next
installment in Creative Assembly's large-scale real-time strategy series in
advance of its release can receive a free copy of the Rome: Total War Gold
Edition, which can be downloaded and played immediately. Empire: Total
War is currently expected for release on February 3, 2009.

But after thinking about it, I realized that Valve/Creative Assembly want you to "work the system". That's how they draw people in to try the game, hopefully hook them, and hopefully get a sale of their product they wouldn't have already got.

Exactly. They have successfully drawn me in and assuming I like Rome Total War they are betting on me wanting to leave my pre-order in place for the newer game.

Currently I have no plans to pay for Empire Total War when it comes out. If I like Rome Total War I will reconsider that but as of today I am unwilling to put money down to buy Empire Total War for full price today on it's own.

So because they want my money, they offer something I am willing to pay for, a full game today, and another at a later date that I can cancel if I change my mind.

That isn't the situation now is it? We aren't talking about if RTW wasn't part of the offer, this is all about it being part of the offer as that is what Tumbler is after, not Empire.

Again with the complete lack of reading comprehension. Why do you bother arguing with someone when you can't even understand their argument?

The reason "the situation" matters is because it completely determines what is "acceptable" and "unacceptable" behaviour. If cancelling a pre-order in general is acceptable, then it doesn't matter in the slightest what other conditions are connected to it.

You agreed that if it was premeditated (which it is) that it was an abuse. So why the fuck are you still arguing the point?

Because after thinking about it more, I decided that I don't agree that it's abuse. It seemed like abuse at first because it seemed like you were "working the system". But after thinking about it, I realized that Valve/Creative Assembly want you to "work the system". That's how they draw people in to try the game, hopefully hook them, and hopefully get a sale of their product they wouldn't have already got.

Lol, give what up? I know I'm right. I'd love to see you try and justify this to someone at Sega or Valve.

...I did. I paid them $50. That is all the justification they require that I am allowed to play RTW. I'm following the rules they setup.

I urge you to contact Sega or Valve and let them know of this "hole" in the system you've found. That people will be able to play Rome Total War after paying in advance for Empire Total War and then they can cancel that and get their money back.

I'm sure they will be very concerned as you are.

Contact them. Seriously. Do it. Send them an email. Call them. Get the word out!

/sigh That isn't the situation now is it? We aren't talking about if RTW wasn't part of the offer, this is all about it being part of the offer as that is what Tumbler is after, not Empire.

He has already clearly stated exactly what he intends to do. He has even posted saying he has now pre-purchased. You agreed that if it was premeditated (which it is) that it was an abuse. So why the fuck are you still arguing the point?

It has already been established that with RTW being attached and that if it was premeditated it was indeed an abuse of the system. You even quoted my statement and agreed. Now you are saying that position is entirely nonsensical. That would be a contradiction of sorts.

And you've demonstrated a lack of reading ability and/or comprehension, as I quite clearly mentioned in the part you quoted, that I was talking about if RTW was not attached to the ETW pre-order.

I bought a game with my credit card through Steam and either don't like it or don't want it anymore. Can I get a refund?

Answer

As with most software products, we will not offer refunds for purchases made online as outlined in the software license - please review Section 4 of the Steam Subscriber Agreement for more information.Steam Subscriber Agreement

Steam Subscriber Agreement

We can make an exception for pre-ordered games if the request is received prior to the release date.

Bhruic - if there were no RTW attached to pre-ordering ETW, would you see anything wrong with someone cancelling a pre-order? If so, then I've really got nothing further to say to you, as your position is just nonsensical.

It has already been established that with RTW being attached and that if it was premeditated it was indeed an abuse of the system. You even quoted my statement and agreed. Now you are saying that position is entirely nonsensical. That would be a contradiction of sorts.

That's like stopping you getting into the cinema after you've seen the film. You've already gained access to it illegitimately.

How exactly have you gained access illegitimately? I mean, yes, you seem to be under some misconception that it's not legitimate, but I've seen nothing that actually demonstrates that. From what I can see, Steam offers you a free copy of RTW immediately if you pre-order ETW. That's nothing but a "bonus" for pre-ordering. Beyond that, all "normal" pre-ordering conditions apply. Are you going to tell me that anyone that cancels a pre-order is doing so illegitimately? Or are you going to try and suggest that you have the right to decide for other people under what circumstances they cancel a pre-order?

Or, to put it differently, if there were no RTW attached to pre-ordering ETW, would you see anything wrong with someone cancelling a pre-order? If so, then I've really got nothing further to say to you, as your position is just nonsensical. If not, why should the fact that someone got something for "free" during the period of their pre-order alter their ability to cancel?

No wonder we're stuck with DRM when people are willing to go to these lengths to access a game for free.

You know, Jerryk has mentioned this twice now, but if Tumbler really simply wanted the game for free, finding and downloading a torrent for it would be exceptionally easy. If someone is willing to go to these lengths, it's generally because they aren't interested in obtaining the program illegally - something I'd think you'd be applauding.

Can someone confirm that this is a pre purchase and not a pre order? I'm assuming there will be an immediate non refundable charge for this game, Empire Total War, and you get a copy of Rome Total war at that point?

Has anyone done a pre purchase via steam and canceled it at a later date? After reading what info I could find on it it appears to be an early purchase instead of a pre-order.

Didn't you just make a big point about how they'll turn off the RTW activation if you cancel your ETW pre-order?

That's like stopping you getting into the cinema after you've seen the film. You've already gained access to it illegitimately. This is a bonus for people that want to pre-order Empire: Total War - not an offer to play the original unrestricted before cancelling.

I honestly don't know how the fuck people can manipulate a free gift with purchase and turn it into a free for all to demo a product. If they wanted people to try the full version they would have done that - Steam allows for it. No wonder we're stuck with DRM when people are willing to go to these lengths to access a game for free.

Didn't you just make a big point about how they'll turn off the RTW activation if you cancel your ETW pre-order?

Are you pretending to be dense?

Who controls when it gets canceled? The purchaser, not the publisher. In the meantime he can play through Rome single-player knowing he will get a refund when he is done with it. This is not an official trial or demo. Which as what I originally stated, is an abuse of the system. Round & round in circles we go.

There is a big difference between an official free trail of a game they have control over when you stop playing it, beta's that turn into games you have to pay for and full game offers when agreeing to purchase another product.

That you don't see this, or don't want to see this, is clear. I'm wasting my time trying to explain it any further as you have clearly justified it to yourself.

Indeed, even tho' he's said that's his intentions, I still wouldn't consider in abuse... It's still a good way for a company to get people to try their game. In my mind, it's no different than offering free weekends like Valve does with TF2 - you play for free, if you like it, you can buy it, if not, you don't play anymore. Same thing here.

And it works!

I played in both TF2 weekends offered and ended up buying the game. I had no intent on buying it when I signed up for the weekend, but bought it anyway.

It worked with Conan, i played in the beta, had no intention of buying the game, and ended up buying it anyway.

Worked with Warhammer Online, I pre-ordered, got to participate in the beta. Got a code for the early headstart and when the game finally arrived I still had the option of returning the game having played it for the past few weeks. But I didn't, I liked what I saw in those trials and decided to purchase.

This isn't abuse, it's exactly how the promotions are intended to work. Forcing people to pay for a game prior to playing it keeps a lot of people on the side lines. Offering a way to play the game before they buy, or offering an incentive to buy helps.

If you require people to pay ahead of time it's a whole different offer. Those offers are perfectly fine but I think they are designed for people who are already planning on buying the game, and need just a little nudge.

Hopefully there will be a free beta I can try, or some way to play the game for free before buying it.

OH! And I am trying the CoD World at War beta right now also. I get to play that for free on the 360 and the PC and I have absolutely NO INTEREST in buying either game. I knew they were going to suck but since they offered a free way to try them I participated. Scummy hunh! I get to play that game for free and I'LL NEVER BUY IT.

So whether you think I jumped to that conclusion here is irrelevant...unless you want to keep defending him.

I was never defending him. I was simply pointing out (correctly, I might add) that it's not an abuse of the system to pre-order the game with the knowledge that you might cancel your pre-order. You, among others, have labeled that an "abuse" (although in your defense, you originally suggested it would only be an abuse if someone were to do so deliberately). I don't consider it an abuse, and up to the point where he admitted he was going to do so, there was no reason to believe that that's what he had in mind.

Indeed, even tho' he's said that's his intentions, I still wouldn't consider in abuse... It's still a good way for a company to get people to try their game. In my mind, it's no different than offering free weekends like Valve does with TF2 - you play for free, if you like it, you can buy it, if not, you don't play anymore. Same thing here.

I was saying you were jumping to conclusions. And I was right. The fact that the conclusion you jumped to happened to be the correct one doesn't mean you were justified in presuming it.

Actually, I stated in my second post..."Correct me if I'm wrong, but that sounds like what you were wanting to do."

He had every opportunity to correct me, but rather he confirmed I was right.

Based on his past posts regarding justifying piracy and how he phrased his first post regarding this, yes I deduced that he intended to abuse the system. It wasn't much of a leap, and obviously I was right. So whether you think I jumped to that conclusion here is irrelevant...unless you want to keep defending him.