Some topics tend to get heated and go off track in unwholesome ways quite quickly. The "hot topics" sub-forum is a place where such topics may be moved so that each post must be manually approved by moderator before it will become visible to members.

At the top of each post, the post heading actually has the URL sitting behind it.

To link to earlier posts, people can right-click, copy this URL, and put it in their posts. It's a bit more reliable than post numbering which would become disjointed if posts are deleted (either by the user or a moderator).

I did not know that, but you need to left click on "Re: Wat Dhammakaya" then right click on url which shows up in the url space on the top of the page in the url box then right click and copy and paste it into the msg body.

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

>> Do you see a man wise[enlightened/ariya]in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<<-- Proverbs 26:12

I didn't want to publicly criticism something other people hold as sacred, however I will add more now having been approached by several people off list: my experience of it was the commercial face of Buddhism, all the dhamma books were for sale for example! I don't understand much Thai, or what was going on, but my wife described the monks as businessmen in robes. I could see that they seem to have taken concepts of angels and hell from Christianity, you pay to them and become an angel or go to hell.

There is the Dhammakaya channel available on satellite, we get in the Britain, I wouldn't recommend that either!

Graham

Pannapetar wrote:I only know about Wat Dhammakaya from hearsay, i.e. from what other people told me about it, and from their brochures, which are quite abundant here. To me it looks like the closest you can get to "spiritual materialism", as they appear to measure merit primarily in donations and they even have a table of devata levels that are open to you in the afterlife according to the financial contributions you made. They attract a lot of the Bangkok business elite and rich Thai-Chinese merchants. I think Ven. Gavesako's brief portrayal in post no. 4 is quite accurate.

I would agree, it's certainly not regular Buddhist as I know it, and has many similarities to Christian sects: offers of heaven coupled with threats of hell, a strong emphasis on financial matters etc.

Graham

Zom wrote:Ajahn Jayasaro said that Dhammakaya is a very dangerous sect

FYI: I have been to the Dhammakaya Temple in Bangkok. My fiancee is a member. I have attended their meditation retreats. I have attended many of their ceremonies. I have toured the facilities extensively. I have had monks in my home here in Hawaii. I even have met with both the Vice Abbot and the Abbot. We are also currently looking to establish our retreat center here in Hawaii as a branch of the Middle Way Retreats under the Dhammakaya Foundation.

There is much discussion if the organization can be considered truely Buddhists. Let me assure you that it is. The inner direction is purely Buddhist. The problem is that because of it's size it has to handle things a bit differently than most Buddhists Temples.

With up to 100,000 attending a normal Sunday meditation service and more than 300,000 attending special holidays, things need to be done a bit differently. Modern technology needs to be used like big screen TVs and massive sound systems just to cover the audiances. The structures are simply designed but are massive as to accommodate so many people. There seems to be huge amounts of money donated, but that is to be expected with so many people attending.

The Temple started off modestly many years ago but the message and technique they offer to the public is so accessable and beneficial the crowds just grew larger and larger. With larger crowds and greater donations they were obligated to build structures that could accomodate all those people and develope alternate ways to give the people what they desired.

Because of all of this, it does look like on the surface to be just a money obsessed cult. But believe me it is not. It has become so popular because they emphasize the importance of meditation to gain merit and have encouraged laypeople to learn and share in the benefits of meditation. Unlike other Theravaden groups that mostly promote a monastic life, scripture and alms giving, the Dhammakaya Temple has put a greater importance on meditation for not only the Monks but also the laypeople. The laypeople have embraced this concept and that is why we see such hugh numbers attending the Dhammakaya Temple.

In modern times with so many followers different techniques are required to accommodate and satisfy the spiritual hunger of all those individuals. It is these "new" techniques that are frowned upon and misunderstood by so many traditionalists. Believe me though, the message is still the same. The Dhammakaya foundation has just wraped it in a new package!

If you have any specific questions just let me know and I will be glad to answer them the best I can.

I would agree, it's certainly not regular Buddhist as I know it, and has many similarities to Christian sects: offers of heaven coupled with threats of hell, a strong emphasis on financial matters etc.

Graham

Zom wrote:Ajahn Jayasaro said that Dhammakaya is a very dangerous sect

They did mention that rebirth into those planes depend on the store of merits everyone have.

If I believe the local real estate agent advertising every second house in my city is stunning.

Perhaps the electrical wiring isn't so good.

“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.” ― Ajahn Chah

tiltbillings wrote:This sort of overly regimented, mass display has been a favorite of Nazi Germany and various Communist regimes.

Criticising this group is one thing, but let's at least try and keep the rhetoric sensible.

Look at the imagery of the massive regimented ceremony. That has nothing to do with the Dhamma, but it has everything to do with the aggrandizement of Dhammakaya organization, and where would you find anything comparable in imagery to those photos?

I am not saying that the Dhammakaya organization is Nazi or Communist in its ideology, but I am saying that such regimentation is an expression of power of an organization over large numbers of human beings. It is a form of muscle flexing.

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

>> Do you see a man wise[enlightened/ariya]in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<<-- Proverbs 26:12