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They seem to like getting it in as much as possible. It's amazing how much fan service and easter eggs JJ and co put into these two Trek films, and yet still the extreme fanboys whine and complain. I think it's remarkable how they've managed to create two fantastic movies catering to both fans and non-fans in equal measure.

Well they tried too hard sometimes. The cut is one. The "homage" just totally kills it for me. And the Mudd thing was trying too hard. Just say prep Mr. Mudd's confiscated shuttle for departure.

They seem to like getting it in as much as possible. It's amazing how much fan service and easter eggs JJ and co put into these two Trek films, and yet still the extreme fanboys whine and complain. I think it's remarkable how they've managed to create two fantastic movies catering to both fans and non-fans in equal measure.

Well they tried too hard sometimes. The cut is one. The "homage" just totally kills it for me. And the Mudd thing was trying too hard. Just say prep Mr. Mudd's confiscated shuttle for departure.

Somebody tell me the Harry Mudd reference. I saw the movie twice and missed it both times.

I really liked this film. Sure I have some quibbles like Spock's scream being such blatant homage that it sucked me out of the film (leading my non-trekkie friend that I was with to wonder why I busted out laughing.) As far as big summer action movies go, though, this one is the tops. Sure, Star Trek has always been at its best when it's about larger ideas, but the fact that this one doesn't present itself as an allegory for some current event, or explore the human condition does not change the fact that it is still a damn entertaining film with great special effects, a brilliant score, good performances, and breakneck pacing.

I'm all for being faithful to source material, but Star Trek is a franchise that had long before collapsed under its own weight. It had become stale and repetitive. With these last two movies Abrams has breathed new life into the series and brought in a whole new group of fans that never would have considered watching Star Trek before. My friend that I was with now wants to watch Wrath of Khan so that he can get all of the references.

Somebody tell me the Harry Mudd reference. I saw the movie twice and missed it both times.

After Kirk leaves the bridge Sulu tells the shuttle bay to ready the ship confiscated in the Mudd incident last month for departure or something like that.

And in case anybody's wondering, it's from Coundown to Darkness, the comic, which is far less related to the movie than the previous Countdown was.

OdoWanKenobi wrote:

I'm all for being faithful to source material, but Star Trek is a franchise that had long before collapsed under its own weight. It had become stale and repetitive. With these last two movies Abrams has breathed new life into the series and brought in a whole new group of fans that never would have considered watching Star Trek before. My friend that I was with now wants to watch Wrath of Khan so that he can get all of the references.

Actually, the amount of references is slightly bothering to me, and has been since Enterprise (or maybe even Voyager's premise), because I feel like they're trying to recapture the glory days of the 60s, which I think is ill-advised. I hope the next one mostly skips references and is fresh and new.

I thought that, the scream aside, the references were pretty well integrated. The fans will catch them and smile, while those who don't get them won't notice or feel like there's something that they're missing.

And of course, having said this, after a night sleeping on it all the dumbass parts of the movie have risen to prominence in my mind. Why the hell did Khan hide the Augments in torpedoes, of all things? And why on Earth did Admiral Marcus know about it, and leave them in situ when he sent them to the Enterprise? (It's the latter that really bugs me; I could just about buy this as a way of Khan smuggling his crew out, since he knew the admiral would want to ship the torpedoes out at some point, but that would require the admiral to not know about it. The way it played out is just dumb.)

flemm wrote:

Actually everyone I saw the movie with was taken out of the film by the Khan "quote" or whatever you want to call it, including myself, though I'm open to reassessing that upon second viewing.

I find myself glad that I knew about it ahead of time; it reduced the impact. It was still dumb, but it was sort of like having already seen it so it didn't seem as bad.

__________________"From the darkness you must fall, failed and weak, to darkness all."

I've seen it twice and didn't notice any different audience reaction to that scene than to any other on either occasion. I laughed both times, because I got a kick out of it - I can't swear that I was completely alone in laughing, but I must have been one of a very few.

Well, they're certainly part of it. These movies are fan service overload.

They put stuff in for the fans, yes, but the movies are mainly directed at general audiences. Otherwise they wouldn't make the money they make.

Gep Malakai wrote:

Why the hell did Khan hide the Augments in torpedoes, of all things? And why on Earth did Admiral Marcus know about it, and leave them in situ when he sent them to the Enterprise?

I see two options: either he wanted to use the Augments on the Klingons and weaken them before invading, or he thought of killing two birds with one stone: killing Khan with the very torpedoes containing his people, and bombard Qo'Nos and start a war, conveniently wiping out the only witnesses (the Enterprise).

I see two options: either he wanted to use the Augments on the Klingons and weaken them before invading, or he thought of killing two birds with one stone: killing Khan with the very torpedoes containing his people, and bombard Qo'Nos and start a war, conveniently wiping out the only witnesses (the Enterprise).

Probably not the former, given that the warheads were still active. The problem I have with the latter is that it just seems like a bizarre and frankly roundabout way of cleaning up his mess. The guy's involved with Section 31 and has the clout to build and captain a ship like the Vengeance. If he wanted the Augments gone, why not just dump them in an incinerator somewhere and hide the paperwork?

When it was revealed that Marcus sabotaged the warp core and stranded the Enterprise on purpose, my first thought was that he intended the Klingons to find what appeared to be a Starfleet ship smuggling supersoldiers into their space, and that that would be the pretext for war. But then it turned out that the torpedoes were live and Marcus did want them to be fired on Kronos, so...

The frustrating part about all of the Khan/Augment stuff is how close it comes to making sense, and yet...not...quite. I feel like they could have given that element another pass and really polished it up. Alas.

__________________"From the darkness you must fall, failed and weak, to darkness all."