My first post, so if it's messy please excuse it.
I am reading a book by Barbera Walker titled "God Made man", in it she gives her definition of feminism as one where the adherent thinks a matriarchal society would be better than a patriarchal. I am not in favor of either, I would not want to replace a patriarchal led society with a matriarchal led society as it would be replacing one inequity with another. Equality, not inequity.

Feminist christians are also hypocritical, though not as much so as christian homosexuals, but still.
Anyways.

Feminism doesn't really work. It relies on ideas that are no there and considers women to be superior to men. It is debated as if women are equal in intelligence and leading ability to men, but superior is a definite no.
History has shown very strongly that like many mammals, humans are a patriachal species.

(06-12-2010 06:00 PM)Cetaceaphile Wrote: Feminist christians are also hypocritical, though not as much so as christian homosexuals, but still.
Anyways.

Feminism doesn't really work. It relies on ideas that are no there and considers women to be superior to men. It is debated as if women are equal in intelligence and leading ability to men, but superior is a definite no.
History has shown very strongly that like many mammals, humans are a patriachal species.

History has shown that without the matriarchal species the patriarchal would not exist, so as to arrive at that conclusion.

(06-12-2010 06:00 PM)Cetaceaphile Wrote: Feminist christians are also hypocritical, though not as much so as christian homosexuals, but still.
Anyways.

Feminism doesn't really work. It relies on ideas that are no there and considers women to be superior to men. It is debated as if women are equal in intelligence and leading ability to men, but superior is a definite no.
History has shown very strongly that like many mammals, humans are a patriachal species.

History has shown that without the matriarchal species the patriarchal would not exist, so as to arrive at that conclusion.

Equality means equality. Men and women have fewer differences than society claims and most of those differences are smaller than society claims. Women athletes are making bigger gains on former female athletes than men are on former male athletes. I doubt if this is that women are evolving faster, more likely they have finally been given a real opportunity to grow as athletes and they are playing catch-up.

Unfortunately, creating real equality in this world is only possible by retraining or eliminating bigotted pigs. A tough job, indeed.

Why retrain or eliminate when you can prevent with education and exposure to the ideals of human rights and equlaity?

The reason it always takes a few generations to eliminate problems like smoking (for example) is that you have to educate people on the reasons not to engage in such behavior. There will always be a few that won't listen but eventually kids make progress and we lessen the bad habits.

But hey I'm a bit pro education bias so take it for what you will. I also think education is the solution for almost every ill the world has.

(06-12-2010 11:59 PM)Green Wrote: A few people in this thread don't seem to really understand what feminism is

Seems so.

I think a difference needs to be drawn between the first wave of feminism and the subsequent ; also there are different kinds of feminists , some in support of equal rights others more extreme considering men to be nothing more than rapists.

I have to disagree. There are several examples in which the progress and equality of a society is directly related to the status of women. This is most evident in third world countries as opposed to our fairly equal western world. When you liberate women from the oppression they face due to the restrictions placed on them by religion or some other traditionally patriarchal system based on male dominance, there is an increase in societal health. Educating women and allowing them to have control over their own bodies is one of the most effective ways to combat poverty. This is feminism.

(06-12-2010 06:00 PM)Cetaceaphile Wrote: It relies on ideas that are no there and considers women to be superior to men.

The Merriam-Webster defines feminism as "the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes." This is the definition that I hold to, but just like with religion and other "-isms" there are degrees of it. You have very radical feminists, that as gaglamesh731 said "consider men to be nothing more than rapists." (I don't really like to refer to them as feminists...they are more like angry, bitter, irrational man-haters ) These are the ones that usually stick out the most, just like the radicals in any other group, giving feminism a bad name. Then you have the feminists that are rational and concerned with equality that are more inline with the definition I gave above. Plus all the colors in between.

In regards to the OP, I disagree with Barbara Walker's definition and implementation of feminism for the same reason dw406 gives in that "it would be replacing one inequity with another."

(06-12-2010 11:59 PM)Green Wrote: A few people in this thread don't seem to really understand what feminism is

I think that the reason for this is as a later comment states, that being that different factions of feminism for whatever reason, have abandoned the original meaning and gone ballistic. Barbara G Walker states matter of factly that feminists, both men and women, believe that a matriarchal system would be better for society. In many ways this one statement invalidated much of her book and revealed the slant from which she views history. Much like someone who builds a fossil from a small fragment of bone, in this case, Barbara has fabricated a non-existent animal.

(07-12-2010 12:25 AM)gaglamesh731 Wrote:

(06-12-2010 11:59 PM)Green Wrote: A few people in this thread don't seem to really understand what feminism is

Seems so.

I think a difference needs to be drawn between the first wave of feminism and the subsequent ; also there are different kinds of feminists , some in support of equal rights others more extreme considering men to be nothing more than rapists.

Don't over generalize.

If equality is the goal for the majority of feminists then the element which aspires for a totally matriarchal system is doing a dis-service to the cause.
If I could label myself a feminist it would be in a struggle for the goal of equality. I do not want any feminist to assume by the label that I would support a totally matriarchal society.