If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

psychobabbling

After some initial doubt, I've for several reasons decided to start this topic. Most likely it will die a silent and unmourned death. We shall see.

First I want myself and the closet-sextourists to get out of each others' hair. I can't abide the fourletter words, the bad spelling, braggings and "I almost made it" stories, spiced with expressions like "hot babes" etc. On the other hand the !!!!WOW!!! types do not like words with many syl-lab-les, so here such is concentrated in one place, which they can avoid. In other words, the contributers to this topic can, without interference, bore each other to death, if we wish to.

Next: Having a soft spot for conspiracy theories I'm convinced, that not only anti-scammers read anti-scam sites, a lot of other groups do it also. The scammers themselves, agency representatives, ultrafeminists (just-hating-men-on-general-principles), chatters (having nothing to say, but doing it with many words) and those just curious. The possibilty of disinformation is real, but maybe it's possible to suppress it by being longwinded and circumstantial.

And last, the most important. Internet-dating is after all only one aspect of the the eternal "war of the sexes". To understand net-dating, I believe it's necessary to paint a broader background canvas. Say, are we just a bunch of grumpy querulants or is there really a difference between not being able to get along with your next-door childhood love and a FSUW? Where and what is the difference? Even without a computer, a different cultural background or alcoholism, Sue-Ellen could still be a conartist or pro-dater. Especially if she's good-looking.

I'm not completely sceptical about FSU dating (internet or not). In the last app. 18 years I've had three longer relationships (in the biblical sense) with SFUW, lasting alltogether 14 years. These relationships broke up for the same personal reasons, as any other relationships do. And I've had my share of scandinavian psychos. For me the question is the PROBABILITY of meeting "straights" or "bends" in each group.

So I invite for wievs on this. And I have a few proposals for background-basics:

I believe, that we like all other animals fundamentally are biological robots. We have a digestive system with two openings, a need to reproduce and to fight for a place in a predatory system. That's our startingpoint. But compared to other animals, we also have rather complex emotions and intellect. We have a possibility, individually or culturally, to be more than just reptile-brained. And different individuals/cultures/subcultures use this possibility in various degrees.

And I also suggest to sort out the differences between women and men. For the present bunch of probably half-machos it's maybe an idiotic question. But believe me, in this time of unisex, feminism, equal opportunities and so on, the issue has seriously, repeatedly and heatedly been raised, if there IS any difference (in spite of different plumbing and men's inability to get pregnant). I strongly support the idea, that women and men are almost different species, and as in any other contact with ETs, we need a lot of diplomacy to establish peaceful contact.

Hey swede, il tell you more but about it later but im pretty shore you have to close the portal or they come back with you.
Smokes thats a hot one. Good luck.
But guys on the scamming scene ive cracked a big one in Australia.
A few days ago i seen a new scammer posted Inna from Ukraine translation scam,stolen photos of former miss universe Jennifer Hawkins 2004,Australias girl next door sweetheart,the whole contry loves her too bits.
I did my homework,hmm report was shim was on rbrides i checked not there email must be hot,moved sites.Checked datemefree,got the scammers profile active.
My next move was to contact major tv program.Bingo ive got the hottest media story going around,in Australa..
The promos have hit the media now,main story going to air Monday night,
Stop-scammers is going to get alot of media,as the good guys,as for datemefree,your going to get what you deserve im just hoping US media picks it up.
Well im all over the media as well,that part im not too shore i want,hope it does not come back too bite my ass,But it does feel good to expose these pricks.
Il keep you guys informed

Hey guys! scamfree, my heart felt congratulations on a job well done!!! Our old friend elenag (The Russian Detective) would be proud. Unfortunately, a story like that probably will never be seen here in the US. Apparently, not news worthy here. More than a year ago, elenag and I, as well as a few others (elenag was the ring leader, began a letter writing campaign hoping for some coverage on FSU/ MOB scamming to various US news agencies with no success. Probably the only way I'll see anything from the land down under, or anyone from the US for that matter, is if it ends up on a You Tube video.[V] And the closest I've seen to FSU/ MOB scamming was two slavic girls attempting to pperform drunk gymnastics, and one doing a full frontal face plant... OUCH!!![:0]

Probably Polish![B)] No, not because of what they did, but listen to the countdown.

But, I digress... I said in the RBrides thread that if you are writing to a girl, and find her on RBrides, she's a scammer! RBrides and Datemefree... Haaaahahahahahaha! Ahhhahahahahahahaha! Hahaha! Ha!!![)]

People smokes
Hey buddy, i think youv'e lost touch with reality, most scammers these days come from the US. So i think you should hunt out some of your coussins and teach them how to do it the right way. Here in Australia mate we look after each other. So i would say mate have a look at your own closet. Were doing heaps better than the US at the moment. US is the scam capital of the world at the moment!!!

I'll try to make my recent posts into a coherent pattern, and for this purpose I'll use a car as an allegory to a human being.

As PeopleS and I can verify (we are both mechanics), a failure in one of a car's components will usually lead to failures in other components also. A stuck brakepad will eventually ruin the brakedisc and later the wheelbearings. Most parts of a car are interactive with each other, and a functional car requires all components in good condition.

And: A complete set of car-components in mint condition isn't a functional car. They have to be assembled. This is what I meant in my former post, when I cited 'The whole is greater than the sum of the parts'. The whole is an assembled car, which is something very different from (even a complete) set of car-components lying around in a pile.

A human being functions this way also. Our parts must be in working order, and they must be correctly connected to each other. If such a condition doesn't exist, we are at best only the sum of our parts, not our whole (which is more).

(You could say, that this interaction of components is a kind of symbiosis. They work together, they don't compete with each other).

Even the best of 'sheepwalkers' will never be more than the sum of their parts, whereas the 'awakened', enlightened, realised, transcendent or god-experiencing (choose according to personal theology) person will be a 'whole'.

The 'sum of the parts' in a person is the sheepwalking ego, the 'whole' (if achieved) is the essense, the soul, Nirvana (whatever). And from the sum to the whole is a qualitative, dimensional 'mind' jump. Or a quantum jump.

PeopleS, to return to latent potentials in a human being: The 'sum of the parts' is a potential 'whole'. So we ARE all Buddhas, and we don't know it. But it requires a nudge to make the change from 'sum' to 'whole', from being 'potential' to 'the real thing'.

Ofcourse an allegory is an allegory, it doesn't PROVE anything, it's only for making it easier to get the idea. And for those who've never made this transition from 'sum' to 'whole', it can be difficult to accept the idea. Yes, ofcourse as as an abstract idea it's reasonable, and when it comes to cars, it's a fact. But for little ME, who has never experienced such a monumental shift in my mind, this is just so many words. And in any case, why should I bother to chase still another idea promising ultimate answers.

Well, that's what the average answer would be to my ideas, but a considerable amount of people have taken such suggestions seriously and followed them up through historical time. Quite a few of them reaching to the stage of mind-quantum-jumps. Is this verification or not? I think this depends on the individual. If you want to go on this journey, something inside you tells you to do so, and motivates you while doing it.

Buddha, Jesus and all of that crowd tried it, and while very few are interested in repeating these 'avatars' (sorry about that) experiences for themselves, most seem to be happy to listen to their words, without understanding anything.

Strange world or universe we live in.

Just one or two posts on this, and I will stop frothing around the mouth or uttering prophesies. Then I will be very down to earth and pragmatic.

Hey guys! swede, I'm really not sure where you're going with this? First, I want to clarify that when speaking of evolution/ mutation, I refer to mental ability more than the physical being. To try to associate what I was talking about to your car anaolgy, with mankind being the car, all the parts are there, properly assembled and operating satisafactorily.

In fact, there are some really neat goodies under the hood, but mankind doesn't know they're there. The onboard computer has several "power" chips that are installed and a super charger, but they're not turned on, and can't be turned on by the driver. The manufacturer has installed "timers". The timers will eventually turn on the chips and super charger in sequence and over a period of time that only the manufacturer knows.

This was done because the manufacturer determined it could be dangerous for the driver to be given to much power too soon, but he knows the driver will someday be able to handle it.

Evolution would, in this scenario, be turning on each chip, one at a time over a lengthy period. Mutation would be like turning everything on at once. The driver has absolutely NO say over when or how much is turned on.

I see the human brain as having all the capacity to acheive the highest levels of conscioussness and/ or enlightenment, but we need to have these parts of our brain turned on for us. I see this happenning as a natural part of man's evolution. There are those who have said similar things, except they also infer that with the added brain power, our bodies will lose bulk as it will no longer be necessary to perform physical labor... Basically, they say we will evolve into the basic ET gray that we have all seen depicted.

I strongly disagree with this line of thought however. To reference some of the beliefs of the eastern religions, I believe mankind will come to train the body as well as the mind and that our general condition will improve, because of our mental growth and not as a seperate evolutionary occurance.

Now, as I have also left room in my line of thinking for the geniuses of the world. Mutation. These are people who were born with an extra chip turned on and because of this, are able to do things that most can not. I say it's a mutation, because their abilities are not necessarily passed on to their progeny.

Regarding the enlightenment of so many monks and priests of various eastern religions, they tell me that there is hope for mankind, and maybe be the frontline in our next evolutionary step. Okay, these kinds of people have been around for 5,000 years... evolution is a very slow process!!! However, it can be questioned that Buddist enlightenment isn't such a big leap forward considering the fact that it's a bit of a "boys only club".

scamfree, the fact that the US is scam central is nothing new. It started with Boris and Natasha, but now it's Steve and Natasha! I refer to a US citizen and his real FSU bride who were busted not too long ago. Also, most of the "pay" sites have offices, if not their headquarters in the US. Scamming is a great stay at home career for the amateur Harlequin novelist!

I wasn't making disparaging comments about Australia. Merely stating that when a girls pics are on both RBrides and DMF, it's a safe bet she/ he is a scammer and that checking those sites is just about the equivelant of checking on any anti-scam site. In fact, RBrides is so bad that I have seen at least two girls in particular, who had two profiles running at the same time. Both using different names, addresses and physical stats. I wrote to RBrides to complain and it took them three weeks to remove the profiles... two weeks later, the one scammer was back with a new name, address, etc...[V]

we're more or less in accordance on most points. I can take your opinions of evolution, and it seems, that you also accept the extra option: The hidden or unmanifested potential in us. What you call the 'power chips'. In my opinion you and I are talking about the same, namely the inbuild extra potential for complex beings.

So far so good, but at this point I raise the question: An omnipotent and postulated benevolent creator, creating complex beings, who through pain and misery must evolve to something 'higher' or 'better' !! If this creator can create a universe with such intricate mechanisms, it should be child's play to base it on symbiosis instead of predation.

'Mysterious ways' or not, no-one (even a creator) in his/her right mind would choose the option of predation, UNLESS this creator isn't omnipotent and therefore either is sadistic or have been forced by 'rules' mightier than him/herself.

Science points to the last possibilty. Complexity can very well be a necessity to prevent enthropy. It will 'locally' (in certain areas of the universe) prolong universal manifestation going on. And talking about omnipotence on the behalf of the creator, the method of locally created negative enthropy is a highly uneconomically method. It will slow down enthropy in some areas, but as a result hasten enthropy in the rest of the universe. Not very bright or omnipotent.

There's one more aspect on this. You mention the risk of misuse, if our potential higher powers are activated. According to my postulate of the necessity of positive emotions as a triggering factor in enlightenment, it means, that only 'good guys' can achieve enlightenment.

Sure, people can mess around with occult forces, and if morally corrupt use these for socalled 'black magic', but this is something way below enlightenment (but strangely enough NOT so difficult to achieve as enlightenment).

As to the deterministic versus free will possibilities of activating our potential 'powers', enlightenemt isn't an on/off situation. It's a slowly growing process, where the amount of enlightenment increases, while the sheepwalking diminishes. And such a gradual development is inside the reach of the average human being, if s/he chooses to use it. Even starting with a minimal amount of enlightenment, all of us have this seed for later growth. And the process is exponential.

Another subject: Whan I was actively net-dating some years ago, I took a general survey of the numerical amount of net-daters from various countries. And (considering populationsizes), US was without doubt over-represented. My personal opinion on this is, that the very strange mainstrean US culture makes it impossible for americans to relate to each other in a functional way (and therefore looks for 'romantic' answers elsewhere), and secondly that american women seem to be considered slightly sacrosanct (not least by themselves), being of a superiour species, and not accountable or responsible to any rules of decent behaviour. So I'm inclined to agree with Scamfree in his criticism of US.

'Mysterious ways' or not, no-one (even a creator) in his/her right mind would choose the option of predation, UNLESS this creator isn't omnipotent and therefore either is sadistic or have been forced by 'rules' mightier than him/herself."

Two words... 'Free will'.

There are an infinite number of paths from point A to point B, with an infinite number of choices to be made as to how to get there, both as individuals, and as a race. We are simply being given free will as to the path we choose in our journey.

In some ways, we are like Dr Martin Luther King Jr, in that, you and I may not get there, but we believe that we as a people will.

Here's one to ponder... 'The End of Days'. Is it doomsday, or the day in which all of mankind has finally evolved to a level of consciousness where we ascend to the level of our creator and the physical world ends for us? Hmmmmmm?

It was written that God created man in his own image. But, maybe he realized that to gain such knowledge as he possessed in one fell swoop would cause insanity? Think about it.

Question. Why do you have such a fascination with symbiosis? Symbiosis in some ways, could be the worst thing to happen. Needing or relying on others can be detrimental. Should one fail, all may fall. Not necessarily a good thing.

It may be that preditory insticts are easier to break than such dependence? Think of drug dependency. There comes a point with some drugs when there is a real physical need for the chemical and to not get it can actually bring about death.

Look at plants. Insects get food from plants and plants need insects and/ or wind to pollinate and reproduce. No insects or wind, and most species of plant become extinct. The wind won't really do it on it's own, and we depend on plants for oxygen.

To quote swede:

"There's one more aspect on this. You mention the risk of misuse, if our potential higher powers are activated. According to my postulate of the necessity of positive emotions as a triggering factor in enlightenment, it means, that only 'good guys' can achieve enlightenment."

Reaching true enlightenment and the level that mankind is currently calling enlightenment are really two different things. True enlightenment being that which will allow us to understand (everything), as opposed to the level currently obtainable by Budhism for example. I see that level as a step in the right direction, but not the end of the journey. Remember, they still have problems with women and I hope you see that there's some room for improvement on that line of thought. This is why I don't consider them to be "truly enlightened".

Also, there are a couple of other thoughts to this point. One being, give a five year old a gun, he/ she shoots and kills his/ her mother. Bad or evil kid? Or someone who was handed a power they didn't understand or fully realize the consequences of using? The other, is the "evil genius". There was a mass murderer in the US named Ted Bundy. I think his IQ was above 180? Different powers to be abused in different ways... different kinds of chips...

As for US men and women... Far too many woman here have developed the assumption that their sh!t don't stink!!! As with all things, there are multiple levels of this, but it exsists in most of them. Guys like me are sick and tired of being treated like floor mats and with the onset of web dating, we began to look around passed our own neighborhoods for a good woman. Yea, there are also plenty of @sshole guys out here too.

For guys like me, we may have started our searches on locally based sites, but through whatever happenstance ended up in the FSU/ MOB world. I've said it before and stick to it that the myths and propaganda presented by various FSU/ MOB sites is one hell of a hook! As to scamfree's criticism of the US, I don't see it as such. More of a statement that a lot of people here have seen the money to be made and are jumping on the scamming bandwagon so to speak.

we have formerly been at the point, where we defined symbiosis differently. Without insisting that my definition is the right one, it's the one I'm referring to, when I talk about symbiosis. For me it means a reciprocial exchange, where all parts benefit. A very good example is grass and clover growing together, each supplying something the other needs.

This is not to be confused with f.ex. that kind of social system, where some people unjustified surf on wellfare. We saw a lot of that in Scandinavia earlier, where people could walk into the wellfare office and declare, that they had no intention whatsoever of taking a job, but they had a legal right to economical support from the state. This has nothing to do with symbiosis at all.

My reasons for being enthusiastic about symbiosis are, that it altogether makes for less pain and suffering. I remember, when you once talked about your native american background, and gave examples of the atrocious ways, the white immigrants behaved. Using their idiotic religion as an excuse, and with the help of superiour weapons and number, the land was simply STOLEN from the indians. And later the abomination of slavery. Both of these are pure predation. The stronger fight down the weaker without mercy or compassion.

Besides predation is a very inefficient process, where a very big part of the available resources are totally wasted on the conflicts between competing parts. This can be seen from a global perspective, with wars; to nations, with internal powergrabbing; to business, where departmentalism can destroy a company from the inside; and even down to individual human psychology, where most of us are more or less at war with ourselves, and thus wasting a lot of energy, we could use better on other things.

And PeopleS, we all depend completely on our surroundings. E.g. none of us would last very long without food. The options are to take what we need by force, or to try to make fair exchanges.

Cit PeopleS:

"Look at plants. Insects get food from plants and plants need insects and/ or wind to pollinate and reproduce. No insects or wind, and most species of plant become extinct. The wind won't really do it on it's own, and we depend on plants for oxygen."
That's another example of symbiosis. I can only agree.

Cit PeopleS:

"Reaching true enlightenment and the level that mankind is currently calling enlightenment are really two different things. True enlightenment being that which will allow us to understand (everything), as opposed to the level currently obtainable by Budhism for example. I see that level as a step in the right direction, but not the end of the journey."

I know with some certainty, what true enlightenment is, both theoretically and practically (though I'm not always able to stay in this pleasant state for long periods), and for me, there's only one kind. Quite a few religions have methods, which can lead to this, if their practical methods are followed. But like with almost anything else, enlightenment can be faked in various ways.

I have for years had close contact with members of the danish tibetan buddhism congregation, and there seem to be considerably less sex-'discrimination' there than in many christian groups.

Enlightenment isn't about getting 'power', as if it was some mind or spiritual extension of a superman philosophy.