Herman Cain Has Likely Lost the Largest New Voting Block in the US: Latinos

One wonders what would have happened for Cain if he made jokes about lynching black people who make no effort to work…but then later, much later, he said ‘awwwwww, that was a joke, and America needs to get a sense of humor.’

Unfortunately, Cain himself is becoming not a leader, but is seen as a reason to laugh as he blunders along trying to find his way into a presidential nomination.

He had my attention at first; talking about hard work: check. Talking about being self made: check. Good words.

But then came ‘the joke’ by Cain about building a fence 20 feet tall with barbed wire and electrified so it would murder anyone who tried to cross it. We already had this… and we still remember… at Auschwitz, at Bergen Belsen, at Treblinka, at Dachau, at so many places on earth, where evil was allowed unfettered.

Not to mention that Latinos who are citizens born here and naturalized citizens make up a huge voting block. It is an error to think that we do not also remember much of what is now US, used to be Mexico. The way it was appropriated is not forgotten. And though we work to be where we are and content, we have not forgotten the abject brutality of that time not so long ago when USA decided it would just take enormous tracts of land lived on, ranched, worked by the mostly poor Mejicanos.

But history of the lands aside for now… if Cain and others want to think that creating a well-crafted fantasy about electrocuting people is a joke, making his audience guffaw and cheer loudly and enthusiastically when he cries out that people will be killed by electrocution….and then, much later, says is a joke… Well. Fine. But, there’s a consequence for ‘joking around’ about electrocuting a specific racial group, that is, those who might have voted for him, will never ever trust him again, no matter what he says otherwise. The vicious slant of his ‘humor,’ the violence of his personal har har.

Ya basta. It is enough.

That Mr. Cain met with (sheriff of Maricopa County) Joe Arpaio today will cement for many, that Cain will bring a vendetta against a certain race of people in ways that are anything but family friendly.

The thing is, many Latinos still remember the hideous history of the Mexican Inquisition which was imported from Spain and enabled by those powers and the Catholic church, and then supported by knowing apathy and supportive forces from the US in the late 18th, 19th and 20th centuries. Most do not know that Mejicanos say they will never go on their knees to a torturer again. Tierra o Muerte [land or death] is not just kidding around. Unlike Cain’s “joke,” o Muerte, is real, not to kill others, but to die defending family and land. There’s much criticism about the average US citizen knowing little about Islam. Many from our culture know most citizens appear also know so little about the culture of Mexico other than Taco Bell, folk dances, la cucaracha, sombrero salt shakers and maybe milagro beanfield war movie.

I watched today what some are calling “Cain’s Girlie Show” put together to seemingly salaam him singing off-key at a press convocation. It would seem that in those times (Cain is no longer CEO as he was assigned by his boss Pillsbury–who are the actual owners of Godfather’s Pizza chain, not Cain) Cain was also joking that he was a king, with well endowed handmaidens glorifying him. I think that’s alright if that’s what he likes. Bring on the girlie shows. That’s entertaining. But it isnt statesmanship.

Regarding Mexico and the terrible issues not only at the border, but deep into the states and Mexico now, as I was reading Cain’s comments about Mexico, none of us can know everything of each culture, but I have to say, it appears Cain doesnt know Chihuahua from a chihuahua. He is as close to a foreign policy expert about Mexico as anyone at the Chukchi Sea saying “I can see Russia from my house’… which is to say zero.

Cain may listen to ‘ten-seconds’ of cable tv’s third-hand news about Mexico, but knowing ‘news flap’ is not the ssame as knowing the long vulnerable and venerable history about the border, or Mexico. He doesnt appear to know the difference between all the many layers, heritages and classes of Mexican peoples. Just sort of ‘dadgumit, those people are bad.’ He doesnt know the difference between the cartels and the people who battle them and lose their lives to them EVERY day. He mentions nothing about the human trafficking going on, on both sides of the border. To be fair, neither does President Obama.

And It would appear from the lack of depth of knowledge about Mexico’s many many different classes of people, that Cain has never been more than a tourist at the border. His tourist ideas of what the border is, what the terrible issues actually are, what relationships exist between Mexico and USA, seem more like his wishful fantasies about what Latinos and Mejicanos are about.

So, sorry, and meaning no disrespect, but Ya Basta, Mr. Cain.

But Ya basta [enough already], is not talk about murdering anyone… as Cain spoke about building a wall so it will murder others, specifically my people. Ya basta, is not ‘getting my people to laugh at a slaughter of your people,’ with emphasis on others’ stupidity …as Cain put forth. In fact we have been walkers, marchers, helpers, sisters and brothers to American blacks since the beginning… except for those from any side who have tried hard to put enmity between the races. We discount them as out of it, as provocateurs sent by certain special interests to unheave and divide, as prevaricators in order to cause discord so they themselves can get most of whatever the getting is. . . power, money, fame, whatever else.

Maybe that’s why it was shocking to hear Cain’s words. Literally centuries of interdependency between blacks and latinos, and it comes to Cain making jokes about death to others. For us, death at the border is very real, and has been for a sadly long long time, and in ways Cain has NO idea about helping, preventing, protecting or mediating.

To me, one who wants to harp on issues without truly showing up to help, is cheap talk. I do not recall seeing Cain at the border, ever. Not in the programs to daily drag water to the deserted dying in the desert, so young souls who are naive and uneducated who believed the coyotes, and who saved and scrimped and indentured family members to pay the passage, but were left to die in the impassable parts of the Sonoran or Mohave by the criminals. 88 children, men and women’s bodies found thus far in the last twelve months. Only counting those poor souls whose bodies have been found. There are likely many many more of the dead not yet found. Their families have never heard from them again.

I have not seen Cain at Mass or at churches that draw from both sides of the border in prayer and solidarity. I have not seen Cain at the immigration jail trying to help the souls who have three children taken away by Immigration from either side of the border whilst trying to cross. I have not seen Cain in the cities where ‘cartel gangs who protect the protectors who protect the protectors’ make the bloods and crips look like the little old ladies knitting club in terms of mutilating raw violence that values no life whatsoever.

I have not seen Mr. Cain crouching in his house with his children and grandchildren on the floor as my friends do, for the thugs on both sides of the border, have free run in backs of open pickup trucks with more loaded carbines than carter’s has pills. I have not seen Mr. Cain on any dangerous frontera. I have wondered what Cain’s military service was, for military service has often caused many a soul to see into other cultures in ways that show both the foibles and the gifts. But Mr. Cain leaves the gifts and the las luchas, the struggles of the decent souls out of his world view of the border. And gives the impression he would like to live in the lap of luxury away from all pain and suffering of others… and solely make cable-news-based pronouncements.

To we who are immigrants, we have in memory a way of seeing. People can flap their gums all day long about what’s wrong with our country in order to ‘het up a head of steam’ to try to ‘rouse the base… the tired base.’ But, we’re not moved. We’re not stupid. We know what’s wrong in this world in more ways than most politicians do. But there will never be a seat at the table for one who cannot say what is right, what is righteous, what is wrong and how to fix it in ways humane whenever possible, and ways of containment when absolutely needed … and know the difference between them all.

Many of us dont want another president, black, white, green or brown whose answer to everything is ‘kill ‘em.” Joke about your own people next time Mr. Cain, and see how that ‘electrocution wall joke’ thingie works out for you.

But, in case you have forgotten, or likely never knew, we have literally tens of thousands of peoples in Mexico for nearly five hundred years, who are Africans brought to all across the Americas by slavetraders, who were themselves both African and European. The Mexicano, El Salvadorean, Honduran, Nicaraguan, Panamanian, Belizian, Guatemaltecos, Costa Rican African-Americans ran for freedom into the US for millenia now. Without papers. Maybe you’d like the US to retroactively check back on them too Mr. Cain. Some may be your own ancestors.

I sincerely hope Mr Cain willl leave the African-Mexicans alone. And the Musims. And Mormons. And the African-Americans who want peace and parity in the US like the rest of us do. I think Mr. Cain has done enough now to set back the reconciliation of races and religions, right here at home.

Which is the shame of it all, for one minute of cheap jokes, Cain seeingly threw away what could have been a promising, balancing chance to be the Republican nominee. We Latinos not only remember the history of Mexico, and the history of the US and Mexico. For sure, we remember just last week …and all that was said, and how Cain fantasized about murdering a people most of whom are naive people trying to make it, then said it was all just a big joke. Just a joke. Like lynching can be a joke. Like that.

He said nothing about going up against the real criminals, vicious criminals both Mexican and from the US. But that would take true courage, true righteousness, for reasons not even needing to be said aloud. It’s much easier for Cain to attack 100 pound 5’2″ men wanting to earn a living for their mothers and their children, than strongmen with trucks, rifles and revolvers.

Ya basta Mr. Cain.

_____CODAhere is more Latino news reaction to Cain’s remarks about a fence he said he’d build for Latinos at the border that he says “This will kill you.”

Brown-Black and Black-Brown racism is nothing new. The two cultures have been clashing for decades and continue to do so in every city in American. I have seen and heard enough black-brown or black-gay bigotry to last a lifetime.

It sounds like Herman is part of this group of blacks that look down upon both. Not that it really matters, the entire Republican party has lost the Latino voting block.

As for the history of that land…while I really appreciate all you do here at TMV… I really do not like that ideology. There are two many brown americans that believe the entire SW of America belongs to Mexico… and that is flat out unAmerican.

DR. CLARISSA PINKOLA ESTÉS, Managing Editor of TMV, and Columnist

thanks Shannon Lee. I respect and regard you too. And, come live with us here and see. Many of we Mexicans are not brown, just for starters. We are a broad spectrum people because of all the invastions by various nations. The land was not the US’s or Spain’s or France’s for the taking just because it was there. Many died trying to keep their land, their casitas and their families intact, as they had for hundreds of years. We cannot change those wars, but we do remember them. Because we know our history in no way supports an idea that we are less “American.” In fact, we are solid United Statesians. The rest of North America is “America” too, not just the US.

Thanks.

Allen

Oh no I disagree.

It was just a joke not Mein Kamph. Besides we have a right to defend our borders against an onslaught of illegal immigration. The answer to the problem is not just make it legal to mosey on over the border and fill out job applications. Some people would have us just buy airline tickets for everyone in the world to come here and set up. There may be physical room here, but there is not economic room for all the people suffering under hispanic rule just to come.

To keep these people out, it just may take a 20 foot electric fence, but in the mean time maybe dysfunctional Mexico/Central America might want to invite the UN in to help feed their people. I’m am offended that complainers from another country would attempt to have an affect upon our internal politics. I see it as a threat to national sovereignty.

Maybe we can send them pizza….Imagine.

DORIAN DE WIND, Military Affairs Columnist

Spot on, Dr E!

I totally agree.

In the first place, a presidential candidate does not joke about killing people.

Second, even worse if those to be killed are of a certain ethnic or racial background.

Finally, was he also joking when he thumbed down those of his own race, those “brainwashed” black people? Or when he insults Muslims?

I could go on and on, about his “jokes,” or about his 9-9-9 plan. (Now, in all fairness to him, the latter IS a joke, and a good one)

Allen

Dorian Cain didn’t say anything about “Killing People”.

He said put a sign up “warning: this electric fence will kill you.”

Mexican is not a race or ethnicity, (as Dr. already pointed out), it is a NATIONALITY that we have full right to defend our borders against.

No, you are NOT being fair, you are being very false faced.

http://locomotivebreath1901.blogspot.com/ locomotivebreath1901

Mrs. Estes,

Mr. Cain will probably never be POTUS regardless of Latinos or not.

But your article implies that Latinos are one issue voters? I think you do people a great disservice.

And your article is peppered with dissonant demagoguery: joking about securing a nation’s border is akin to joking about an angry mob lynching people??; securing a nation’s border to keep people out is akin to brutal fascist regimes imprisoning people to keep them in??; Latinos who are citizens born here and naturalized citizens are not respectful of this nation’s laws regarding illegal immigration and only care about open borders??

I’m not sure if you’re familiar with the ranching industry, but fences are very important tools, and electrified fences are frequently used to manage herds. No animals are killed from this technology.

And I’m NOT equating migrant people with animals.

But people are killed by other people; namely drug gangs, mercenaries, smugglers, gun runners and a plethora of other criminals which infiltrate up from Mexico and infest the American SW.

It’s the honest hard working folks in Mexico and the USA who suffer.

Mr. Cain is right. Get a sense of humor about a deadly tragic situation that needs to be addressed – fence or no fence.

JSpencer

Dr E. Thank-you for the timely and insightful post. You have gone to the heart of the matter and made it possible for others to see what is there. Whether or not they choose to take a good look, or whether they bring enough life experience to understand what they see is up to them. The Cains of the world are useful in business and when they are successful it’s probably easy for them to imagine they have a future in politics as well, such is the power of ego. Cain however is clearly not presidential material, and your post illustrates one of the big reasons why.

EEllis

Maybe it’s not my place to say but I live in a area that’s 80% Hispanic. I just don’t believe you as a spokesman for my neighbors.

Allen

JSpencer-

Let me ask you…

Is it better that a candidate say what he or she actually believes to his or her prospective constituency?

or…

Is it better that he or she says what he or she thinks his or her prospective constituency want to hear?

and…

In this particular case with Cain, which was it that you believe Cain was doing?

JSpencer

Ellis, I live in an area that’s 80% white. I’m probably not a very good spokesman for my neighbors either. Of course that’s all anecdotal eh? Think bigger.

JSpencer

Allen, candidates talk and talk and talk, meanwhile the voters try to figure out what all their talk really means and how it could match up with their actions should they ever become elected. We also look at their records to see how much of their talk is BS. Cain gets the same treatment as anyone else. He fails the test for me. Ymmv.

ShannonLeee

My fair editor…I understand your point. I once stood in shock when one of my best friends informed me that he was white Cuban. I asked, “What do you mean white cuban…are there black cubans too???” I was young.

As for the anti-american anti-white movement that wishes to take back Southern California and rejoin it with Mexico…yes, it exists, is well organized, and extremely unAmerican.

http://www.newshoggers.com/ RON BEASLEY

Cain is not a serious candidate. He is not campaigning in the early states he needs to win. He has little money and most of that is being spent to push his book.

DORIAN DE WIND, Military Affairs Columnist

Perhaps supporting Dr. E’s contention:

“Long-life Texas GOP Latino Leader Leaves Republican Party After Herman Cain Advocates the Death of Immigrants”

Let’s see:
Question…Will Cain lose all Latino votes since all Latinos think and act the same?

Quesiton…How do Mexican American citizens feel about unfettered illeagal immigration?

Question…Does everyone really think Cain wants to kill people trying to enter the U.S. illegally? Is that what he said?

Question…Why does anyone think a Roman candle like Bachmann, Perry or Cain could ever become POTUS?

ShannonLeee

“Why does anyone think a Roman candle like Bachmann, Perry or Cain could ever become POTUS”

Oh oh I know… GWB’s re-election.

as for the rest… it isn’t a matter of all votes, but most votes, which he will not get.

Most MA’s aren’t big fans because they don’t like the competition. That being said, the folks I am close to see Rep attitudes towards illegal immigration as very anti-Latino. In elections, perception is reality.

And no… i think he just likes thinking it.

Allen

Dorian-

Please put up the Video of Herman Cain making his supposed Kill immigrants comment.

You WON’T because he did NOT say kill immigrants.

I mean if you don’t want the world think you are liars that should not be believed, then try to stick a little closer to the truth.

I mean really, Give Pizza a Chance…

slamfu

Herman Cain is a 10 second sound bite candidate just like all the other GOP hopefuls. Anything more than that and he’ll put his foot in his mouth faster than Rush Limbaugh trying out his stand up routine at the Apollo. He is a Tea Party darling, all they want is someone to mouth the talking points. However under the scrutiny of the public which comes with being the actual candidate, he will wither.

DORIAN DE WIND, Military Affairs Columnist

DORIAN DE WIND, Military Affairs Columnist says:
OCTOBER 18, 2011 AT 9:03 AM

“Spot on, Dr E!

I totally agree.

In the first place, a presidential candidate does not joke about killing people.

Second, even worse if those to be killed are of a certain ethnic or racial background.

Finally, was he also joking when he thumbed down those of his own race, those “brainwashed” black people? Or when he insults Muslims?

I could go on and on, about his “jokes,” or about his 9-9-9 plan. (Now, in all fairness to him, the latter IS a joke, and a good one)”

Allen says:
OCTOBER 18, 2011 AT 2:22 PM
“Dorian-

Please put up the Video of Herman Cain making his supposed Kill immigrants comment.

You WON’T because he did NOT say kill immigrants.

I mean if you don’t want the world think you are liars that should not be believed, then try to stick a little closer to the truth.

I mean really, Give Pizza a Chance…”

This is what Cain said:

“It’s going to be 20 feet high. It’s going to have barbed wire on the top. It’s going to be electrified. And there’s going to be a sign on the other side saying, ‘It will kill you — Warning.’”

malcontent

ShannonLeee…first of all, where are you? I’m not sure that you are close enough to the situation to really grasp what’s going on.

Secondly, the border issue has nothing to do with race. It has to do with large numbers of people coming into our country illegally and putting a drain on services which are afforded free of charge…like the 60,000 babies born free last year in Texas to mothers in the state illegally, or the number of bi-lingual teachers required, or the free meals handed out at schools.

Black, brown, white or green skin has no bearing on the issue. I think the Mexican Americans that are citizens and live around me don’t appreciate the increased insurnace premiums, real estate taxes, etc. that we have to pay because of it anymore than I do.

ordinarysparrow

This is an interesting companion piece for Dr.E’s post… Dr.E posted her post a couple hours prior to this one…

These are voices of power and reason, sometimes it is self worthy to listen to what is being said… to ask are we merely defending the “same old same old” or is there living space in the mind for all people to have their voices and power beyond the entrenched right and wrong.

I read this one today then came to TMV to see if anyone had written about this here, glad to read Dr.E was published here….thanks

DR. CLARISSA PINKOLA ESTÉS, Managing Editor of TMV, and Columnist

if one proposes putting up a fence electrified and says they will put a sign saying “this will kill you” in English and in Spanish, the fence is meant to kill. Cain has no humor about himself, only about making violent murderous fantasies about others. And then covering later, when confronted, saying this violent desire that came right out of his own mind, was a joke.

Here, where I live, in a huge Latino diverse population of immigrants, chicanos, latinos, hispanics of many generations, Cain is gone from the stage. It’s too bad. He started out, as I mentioned, strong with work ethic statements. I listened. Now, I listen only to shake my head. Whoever above said a businessman who grows up in the ‘entitlement’ era for minorities of the past, may think running restaurants can be translated to running a government. We were open to that here, because we have a former mayor and now Governor who was just that… an owner of breweries. But he has never spoken against Latinos or any other group of people, never raised the idea that any group of people should be harmed. Never. There’s the singular difference from my .02. Re other: I grew up in the backwoods and farmlands. Fences that are ‘electrified’ for animals, give such low voltage ‘shocks’ only as mild deterrent, they do not kill the animal. Any livestock rancher or farmer only kills animals for profit, not just to kill them because they are ‘bad’ and not obeying ownership fence lines.
Thanks.

DR. CLARISSA PINKOLA ESTÉS, Managing Editor of TMV, and Columnist

@slamfu “He is a Tea Party darling, all they want is someone to mouth the talking points. However under the scrutiny of the public which comes with being the actual candidate, he will wither.”

you’d make as fine strategist. Your point is true, and the hidden motive behind much of the grandstanding, is not apparent to many.

I hope you will teach here more about how what one sees, may have many root systems feeding it, besides the obvious. I think, just my .02, this not realizing what’s being put forth purposefully in order to distort issues for voters, is one of the essential causes of a more and more poor pool of pollys running and elected. Not sure the voters ever see behind the scenes who is puppetmaster, until too late. The strong root system of the Koch brothers is a case in point, Soros was well known to be influencing. Now, many of us Latinos are asking, what about Carlos Slim Helu. [Karlos El-oo]

Thanks

JSpencer

Nice to see you again sparrow! Yup, Dr. E is still here (thankfully).

malcontent

We keep comparing candidates and saying for one reason or another why we don’t like them, but until we realize what they all have in common that is totally unacceptable, we can expect more of the same.

They aren’t all African American,; not all are Ivy League educated; not all have extensive business experience; not all are pro-choice; not all want to build a border fence; and not all want to immediately bring our troops back home.

What we do know about them, but fail to acknowledge, is that the ones with any chance of winning all serve masters they are beholding to…and, If elected, they will be serving them and not necessarily those of us who voted them into office.

These masters control all the money, and our Supreme Court has made it legal for these guys to pay bribes and buy votes.

Until we make changing this our utmost goal, it will be business as usual.

Antonio_Weaver

OH PLEASE…… this guy is another black joke. The best that he can do is become the first black republican president to make history. My advice to you all………..? “fall out of obsession with this guy”, he’s trash already, I’ll support Dr Estes before I submit to this corporate power figure.

DR. CLARISSA PINKOLA ESTÉS, Managing Editor of TMV, and Columnist

@malcontent: truer words have never been …

“but until we realize what they all have in common that is totally unacceptable…”

That sleight of hand toward the voters of “Looky here, and do NOT look behind me” can be turned around if you and others keep speaking up, not just here, but elsewhere. Consciousness doesnt necessarily come from debate, it comes from seeing the real root system of a politician. I’d say, in metaphor, consciousness about the very real assaults on how we are treated politically whilst the kings dance, comes from “peeling back the ocean” so to speak. (see Salvadore Dali’s painting of the ocean being peeled back to see what gross and gifts lie beneath)

Thanks

Allen

While Anderson Pooper has lost control of the debate, let me repeat that Herman Cain did not say kill anybody. This is hyperbole.

In this country you don’t hear black people screaming let more black people in, or more white people screaming let more white people in, or Polynesians screaming let more Polynesians in. If “Latinos” that are here as citizens, just want more of their own kind here, and do not recognize the horrible problem illegal immigration from Mexico and beyond has caused, then they are bigots. I don’t appreciate the pretext that somehow “Latinos” by virtue of location, get to immigrate into the U.S. more than any other people on this planet. Especially so if they bowl over the border defenses and skirt laws to get here and stay here. NO MORE AMNESTY.

However, Herman Cain is the perfect person for enforcing this because he is of the MOST oppressed race in the history of mankind, and, at the same time, true blood American at heart. Race in immigration will not become an issue under President Herman Cain! That I firmly believe.

If we have to, we can send pizza care packages to World Food Program depots in Mexico. So a tip to my Latino American friends out there, pick up some Godfathers stock early while it’s cheap!

Very good. Furthermore VERY GOOD for President Obama! Head’em up, move’em out.

Latinos that vote in block according to immigration policy….got nothin. They are going to have to vote along with “We the People” instead of against “We the people”.

DR. CLARISSA PINKOLA ESTÉS, Managing Editor of TMV, and Columnist

it’s true lbreath

it has been true for every admin since reagan

DR. CLARISSA PINKOLA ESTÉS, Managing Editor of TMV, and Columnist

I think that’s true shannonlee, but here it is a very small of smallest minority, and it does react sometimes, and it reminds me of how some people in the Southern US, react sometimes when Civil War is mentioned. There are some old memories that are not laid. I dont know if they will ever be in our time.