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Systemd-Free Debian "Devuan" Planning Their First Developer Gathering This Spring

i don't have to prove anything given that everybody knows it was you fucking too stupid to operate a package management and realize what you must not do and where the problem comes from and report it there - it's that simple - if you can't handle dependecy problems proper without destroy your system you are an clueless idiot seeking to blame somebody else for your own stupidity

i prove it with a infrastructure running more than 10 years and surivived 20 fedora dist-upgrades including UsrMove, systemd, switch to dracut and a ton of other more ore less dramatical changes with no downtimes, no re-install and prepare/adopt everything *online* with a simple reboot after that and forgive me but when some clowns like you make a fuss about a simple packaging issue (no matter what package) you appear like an idiot to me for good reasons

Ups, that backfired. I meant the other way around obviously, as libsystemd has been replaced. Like I said though, doesn't matter in this context. Just an attempt to shit on you some more, which actually isn't necessary as we got plenty to go on.

Also I said the COMMAND not the OUTPUT. The conflict was the output later when installing. That's where systemd-libs showed up, you stupid trash.

Also doesn't matter, what matters is that you have no idea why the conflict arose and have convinced yourself it's because of systemd. Stupid is as stupid does.

At this point it's clear you're a fucking joke and you literally don't know what you are talking about, you embarrassment "Arch noob". You and hreindl don't know shit, keep proving that with every post you make.

This is too funny. Reminds me of the Iraqi general who was claiming Bagdad wasn't invaded at all with American tanks rolling around in the background.

Me and hreindl (or any other sane person that got the conflict you had) would use our brains for about 5 seconds and understand why it arose. Then we would do what's necessary to accomplish the original task without getting the conflict. Not go on a public forum screaming about systemd being a problem.

So let's summarize this:

You = stupid trash
We = smart

Didn't know I was capable of being this childish. What can I say, you bring out my inner child

Comment

Making a fuss when I just shared my story in this thread? (not with YOU or arokh, btw).

The only fuss here is from incompetent retard like yourself and I'm just replying in kind. See here if you want a recap.

In that post (which was not edited as you can see) you can also CLEARLY see that I fixed the problem and just sharing my story with systemd getting in my way. Obviously, I did exaggerate the time waste, because it was a rant. At no point did I ask for help from an illiterate like yourself, and yet you've gone on for pages and pages about repeating the same bullshit, when that was the very first post I made in this thread, detailing EVERYTHING you needed to know.

Ups, that backfired. I meant the other way around obviously, as libsystemd has been replaced. Like I said though, doesn't matter in this context. Just an attempt to shit on you some more, which actually isn't necessary as we got plenty to go on.

Also doesn't matter, what matters is that you have no idea why the conflict arose and have convinced yourself it's because of systemd. Stupid is as stupid does.

It is because of systemd, since libsystemd got "replaced" and it has everything to do with systemd (it's even in its name).

This is too funny. Reminds me of the Iraqi general who was claiming Bagdad wasn't invaded at all with American tanks rolling around in the background.

Me and hreindl (or any other sane person that got the conflict you had) would use our brains for about 5 seconds and understand why it arose. Then we would do what's necessary to accomplish the original task without getting the conflict. Not go on a public forum screaming about systemd being a problem.

So let's summarize this:

You = stupid trash
We = smart

Didn't know I was capable of being this childish. What can I say, you bring out my inner child

It is because of systemd, since libsystemd got "replaced" and it has everything to do with systemd (it's even in its name).

no it's because the package maintainer renamed subpackages and either you where stupid or he did a mistake, without that Arch specific change systemd would not have had a problem because systemd is not responsible for packaging mistakes nor idiot users not understanding depsolv problems, but given that it was explained dozens of times you head full of shit won't recognize that simple fact anyways

Comment

Time to pour some more gasoline and keep the revenue coming in for Michael.

Problems as I see them with systemd

Big and LOTS of code - translating into increased attack surface due to having more bugs. Amount of bugs would statistically increase with more LOC. coders are humans who make mistakes after all. Caffeine has only so much effect. And don't tell me Linux is inherently "immune" because malware is made for Windows only.

When you have a use case systemd is not quite designed for, working around it makes it's benefits fade away - you are actually spending more effort implementing solutions than you'd spend if had no systemd to begin with.

It's taking over more and more components, which, once replaced are left in limbo and undeveloped. Some have been forked and kept current but as often it does not happen. Which is hurting everything else not using systemd but using said components systemd has annexed.

Debugging it's problems is more complicated because it being bunch of binaries. Peruse the source and it assumes you know your C.

Annoying shit systemd keeps throwing up because wrong default settings. Mostly in regards of boot delays and network issues. You'll have to intervene manually. Sometimes it 'just happens' (because some dbus update making you either wait 90sec after systemd-logind or making you restart the thing manually). So, you have faster boot because of parallel boot and binaries, which gets bogged down due to bugs, shitty default settings or unforeseen shit breaking the sequence (same systemd-logind example) and putting you into long timeouts.

Wrong approach to development. Feature creep. Ignoring bugs. Shitty "I can do no wrong" attitude from devs (Sievers). It's code should be seriously audited, overhauled addressing all the bugs people have reported BEFORE starting to add new features again.

It will eventually make Linux either Windows-like uniform, where differences between distributions are pretty cosmetic or takes it gradually over completely supplanting even the kernel.

I am of two minds about binary logs. At one side, binary logs are faster to index and search etc. On the flip side, corruption would screw it up instantly.

systemd replaces significant part of the GNU Linux and creates new APIs. It's not really problem of systemd itself, but once other applications start depend on the said API's you would need systemd to use it. Or start developing shims to emulate systemd. Which might be not that trivial task.

The problem with systemd is not that it is exactly "bad" in itself. Lots of worse software out there. Systemd is relatively competently programmed. And it's even useful!
The problem with systemd has always been that it forces you to do everything the systemd way, and usually to use its tools. It goes against everything that has helped GNU/Linux become a great system: that it wasn't really one system. It was bits and pieces, and you could add them together however you wanted to get something you liked. Systemd is the exact opposite. It is inflexible and clunky, monolithic, binary and difficult. Everything has to be made to work with it, not vice versa. It doesn't follow any of the old conventions that made it simple to combine one tool with another. If it allowed proper flexibility in it's design without forcing it's users to go "systemd-Way" or drop it, everyone would love systemd, because it has plenty of useful features.

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Comment

no it's because the package maintainer renamed subpackages and either you where stupid or he did a mistake, without that Arch specific change systemd would not have had a problem because systemd is not responsible for packaging mistakes nor idiot users not understanding depsolv problems, but given that it was explained dozens of times you head full of shit won't recognize that simple fact anyways

Could you point out which part of the systemd code that caused this pacman package conflict please? If you can do so, I'll jump off the highest bridge I can find.

@aht0

0 valid arguments. The typical nonsense that's been refuted over and over again. How much code have you written, btw?

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@aht0
0 valid arguments. The typical nonsense that's been refuted over and over again. How much code have you written, btw?

Your personal subjective opinion does not render these points invalid for other people. World is not just you nor only about you. So get down from your high horse.

I've made odd side-money as a freelance coder, not just in past but inside last 6 months. Plus writing various snippets and small programs or shell scripts for my own use. Helped port Kodi 18 to FreeBSD, couple of years a go when I couldn't compile it from github's sources, sent patches upstream until it started compile..

Even though my my regular work is in military/internal security forces. Went through university (information tech) which gave me basic C like 10 years a go. Learned (delphi) pascal, python and autoit3 on my own. C shell too to a degree. I don't need more nor have want of spending too much doing it, got family who want's time and attention. Writing code tends to be job you bring home with you. Current job - once im off-work, im off.

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You haven't pointed out a single technical problem with systemd (not one!), only misconceptions and personal opinion. And sorry, your basic code snippets does not give you any authority in claims like "Wrong approach to development." regarding a major open source system and service manager.

It's hilarious, the keywords "binary logs" and "monolithic" is repeated in every clueless person's ramblings about systemd. I'm not even going to bother explaining why, as I've seen your handle in other systemd discussions and I'm sure you've seen the answer to that. Basically, you don't know what you're talking about.