Facebook isn't the first company you think of when privacy comes to mind. Nor is it second, third, or anywhere near the top dozen. It's lucky if it's anywhere on the list at all. But the company does own WhatsApp, the widely used instant messenger that started encrypting all messages earlier this year. Now Facebook is testing out that same encryption in Messenger.

Facebook Messenger is using the same protocol that Open Whisper Systems developed for TextSecure and, later, Signal. Unlike WhatsApp or Signal, Facebook isn't encrypting all messages. Only those conversations that you and another person deem secret will disappear from prying eyes. It's the approach we've seen taken by various secure messaging services for years, and it's the same path Google is taking with Allo.

Secret conversations come with limitations. The big one is that messages can only be read on one device. These conversations also don't support GIFs or videos. And don't bother trying to send money anonymously, as it's not going to happen.

The test is limited for now, but Facebook plans to make the feature widely available later this summer.

Haha... 100%... Privacy and Facebook don't belong to the same PLANET... It will be encrypted for sure... Except till when someone at Facebook wanna any info from your chats... But to everybody else, even the Justice or police force, the messages are 100% illegible for anyone outside the conversation.

ashjas

For the same reason I don't take WhatsApp textsecure implementation seriously.. for private conversation I'm good with signal.
WhatsApp is not mentioned for private conversations at the first place.

the headline should be prefaced with NOTE TO ALL PEOPLE PLANNING ATTACKS: (you can now use Messenger!)

usaff22

Are you implying that the only people that don't want their messages read are 'people planning attacks'?

Because if so, that makes you look really dumb.

Jordan L

Who cares about your messages?! No one but you. I guess encryption is important to keep "hackers" from reading your messages, I think. Maybe we are trying to avoid the headline "China has been reading all of your messages for years" type of headline. Or maybe they would just pull cc numbers if you transmitted those.... Thinking as a type here. ok.... I have a better headline: "[some hacking group] has posted years worth of private chat messages in a searchable format.".
Ok, so encryption is good to keep out malicious people, but still, on some level the government would need access.

Yuku Sugianto

> It's the approach we've seen taken by various secure messaging services for years, and it's the same path Google is taking with Allo.

Why mention the upcoming Allo when this is already the way it works in Telegram?

Groosha

Because in comparison TG vs FB, FB is far more bloated, worse and less secure. So better to compare with Allo :)

andy_o

He meant that it's also using Open Whisper's encryption, like Whatsapp, Signal and Allo. Telegram decided to hire maths (not crypto) guys and roll their own crypto. I haven't seen any crypto experts speak positively of MTProto, and the first thing they say is it's a noob mistake to roll your own crypto.

Groosha

And you haven't seen any successful attacks on MTProto as well. Think about it.

andy_o

So flipping it to your earlier comment, have you seen evidence that FB Messenger is less secure? Allo? Have you seen any successful attacks against any of Open Whisper's apps? That there's been no successful attack doesn't mean the encryption is optimal. I'd rather listen to pretty much all crypto experts than a random TG fan. BTW, in the post there's a link to another post about it, which links to a paper on a theoretical attack on TG, due to its completely unnecessary implementation.

Groosha

Lol, live in your "perfect world" where FB is the most secure, security-friednly and user-friendly company in the world. I'd rather listen to anyone except FB fans and staff

andy_o

Where exactly did I say that? Avoiding the argument much?

Groosha

Reverting back to your original comment:
"I haven't seen any crypto experts speak positively of MTProto, and the first thing they say is it's a noob mistake to roll your own crypto"

So why are you quoting this bullshit with knowledge that no successful attacks were on both Signal's encryption and MTProto?

andy_o

Keep moving the goalposts. You haven't answered anything here, just keep changing the argument. Did I say any successful attacks have been done? Having had a successful attack against it is not necessary to deem an encryption scheme a bad idea. That what you call bullshit is what pretty much all crypto experts say, not what I say. If you'd gotten your head out of the sand and search a bit, you'd have easily found it. It was a relatively big issue when it happened, and many crypto experts have chimed in.

And don't be disingenuous buddy, you're the one that said FB Messenger and Allo (implying Open Whisper's security) were "less secure". Did you abandon that idea, at least?

Groosha

Did you start thinking yourself, not using other people's thoughts? Of course, you can still copy "those experts' words", but did you at least try thinking yourself about it?

andy_o

What do you think "expert" means? Do you think your opinion in medicine is more valid than doctors'? In astronomy than that of astronomers? In cryptography than that of cryptographers? Do you think people go to school, investigate and study a vastly difficult topic all their adult lives and some schmucks on the internet like you and me have opinions on their subjects of expertise just as valid?

Groosha

I'm not competent in crypto either, but! Read those "proof of insecurity" again (you may find that infamous pdf file in the Internet). It's only about theoretical possibility (which is very low btw). So both protocols are of the same quality. Stop thinking BS pls.

Groosha

Reverting back to your original comment:
"I haven't seen any crypto experts speak positively of MTProto, and the first thing they say is it's a noob mistake to roll your own crypto"

So why are you quoting this bullshit with knowledge that no successful attacks were on both Signal's encryption and MTProto?

Groosha

Reverting back to your original comment:
"I haven't seen any crypto experts speak positively of MTProto, and the first thing they say is it's a noob mistake to roll your own crypto"

So why are you quoting this bullshit with knowledge that no successful attacks were on both Signal's encryption and MTProto?

Groosha

Reverting back to your original comment:
"I haven't seen any crypto experts speak positively of MTProto, and the first thing they say is it's a noob mistake to roll your own crypto"

So why are you quoting this bullshit with knowledge that no successful attacks were on both Signal's encryption and MTProto?

Groosha

Reverting back to your original comment:
"I haven't seen any crypto experts speak positively of MTProto, and the first thing they say is it's a noob mistake to roll your own crypto"

So why are you quoting this bullshit with knowledge that no successful attacks were on both Signal's encryption and MTProto?

Groosha

Reverting back to your original comment:
"I haven't seen any crypto experts speak positively of MTProto, and the first thing they say is it's a noob mistake to roll your own crypto"

So why are you quoting this bullshit with knowledge that no successful attacks were on both Signal's encryption and MTProto?

Andrew Hope

End - to - end encryption is absolutely fucking meaningless if you are in collaboration with security services like the NSA/CIA & the FBI and you give the encryption keys to them. If anything, I wouldn't be surprised if selecting the " secret conversation" button automatically flags the message for dissection by said services. Therefor, it probably makes it less secure than before...

usaff22

The whole point of end-to-end encryption is that no one except the sender and receiver have the private key and the encryption method was independently reviewed by Signal.

Facebook can't give any encryption keys that it doesn't possess.

Roger Siegenthaler

Thank you, some "smart" people that know how P2P key exchange works here -.-

Marcelove

How to call the cops and make them appear at your residence in 5 minutes: hit the secret conversation button and send a message with the following words: Obama Bomb "Allahu Akbar". Maybe even under 5 minutes you gonna have a SWAT team at your disposal =D