Update: This project was dead, but it's back! Unfortunately my daytime job keeps me somewhat busy, so don't expect the project to emerge in a couple of years.
Saya is a programming project aimed to create a cross-platform, versatile, extensible Nonlinear video editor with features available in commercial editors like Adobe Premiere, Sony Vegas or Edius Pro. The project was started in June, 2008, died in 2009 and was revived in October 2010.

Thursday, April 30, 2009

Bad news. With my bad luck in finding a job, the current flu epidemic and having to deal with an unexpected depression (mostly based on my economic situation), I can't keep working on Saya until I get my life back.

So the project is stalled and the meetings are suspended until further notice (which I hope will be in a couple of months in the best case).

Monday, April 6, 2009

This is a brief summary about what has been discussed in the fifth Saya-VE developers meeting.

About the team:

* Agustin has not been seen since the last meeting. We're assumming that he just left the team.

* This happened after the meeting. I got an email from another volunteer wanting to join. I let him experiment with the latest snapshot of our current code in the meantime.

* Due to his good work so far, Alex was given write access to the SVN repository.

About the tasks:

* The Qt conversion is around 60% done. The welcome dialog is completed, the new project dialog layout is done (C++ implementation pending). The playback controls still need to be adapted into the video player.

* Tasks for Rick (me): Since I couldn't advance at all this month (workload / health reasons) I still have to convert the main window and the video playback controls.

* Tasks for Lubomir: Write the developers' guide for Windows (it needs to be changed as now we use Qt, not wxWidgets). He had some technical problems writing them, but he's working on it.

* Tasks for Brad: Get to compile Saya on Windows with Qt, and help Lubomir in doing so.

* Tasks for Alex: Study more Qt, play around with the code.

* Tasks for Rigo: Implement in C++ the new project dialog that he had designed; write a market-oriented "mission statement" document.

Other Issues worth discussing:

* Jeff found a blog entry about Video Editing. Basically we agreed with the blog entry in that there are currently not working user-friendly video editors.

About the next meeting:

* The next meeting will take place on Saturday, May 2, 2009, 11AM CDT (-0600).

* Now talking on #saya-dev<rick_777> This meeting is officially open.<RigoCalleja> * BANG *<rick_777> heh<RigoCalleja> first task assigment status?<rick_777> First of all, i'd like to apologize for my lack of work. This month I couldn't do anything. zip. nada. zero.<rick_777> (I got too much work, then i got sick, then i went on vacations)<RigoCalleja> you had the conversion to QT assigment<rick_777> Well I guess that's still pending from my part, but I'll resume work this week :)<rick_777> Rigo, what task was assigned to you?<RigoCalleja> k<RigoCalleja> new project dialog<rick_777> status?<RigoCalleja> status: done<rick_777> Cool!<rick_777> Have you uploaded to SVN yet?<RigoCalleja> yup<rick_777> ok... who's next?<mau5> i'm done with the gmerlin document<rick_777> Alright! Please send it to the mailing list.<mau5> and that demo application; mixing bewteen qt and gmerlin<rick_777> hmmm about the application, just mail us the source code (zipped)<mau5> yes, it needs a review<rick_777> oh wait, you're using gmerlin...<rick_777> well send your code anyway.<mau5> i send it few weeks ago<rick_777> Good :)<mau5> it's uploaded on the saya gmail group<RigoCalleja> SeekerAll.tar.gz ?<mau5> yes<rick_777> Ok... (man, I feel disoriented after not doing anything for a while)<RigoCalleja> don't worry<RigoCalleja> you'll be back in business<mau5> i will upload the document now<RigoCalleja> Ok let's move on to the next team member<LubomirD> Me: I'm still not done with the developers guide: I still could not compile Saya, so I could'n write a normal guide. I had a lot of mess with it.<rick_777> Ok, I'll help you with it then<LubomirD> Thank you<rick_777> I'm afraid that we're stuck in a bottleneck and that bottleneck is finishing the Qt conversion.<RigoCalleja> sort of<brad_gar> I almost have saya compiled on windows, I think I have the wrong version of Qt as I'm getting a moc error or something to that effect<RigoCalleja> but We're also making enablement progress<rick_777> I guess that what we can do now is finish the conversion (and the dev. guide) and when we're finished, we'll mail you the new tasks, if any.<brad_gar> just downloaded the latest from the sdk, not the 4.4.3 version<mau5> @brad: try qt 4.4.3<rick_777> Yes, it seems there are no problems with qt 4.5.<RigoCalleja> Brad: feel free to join Lubomir and Rich if you need to<brad_gar> k<rick_777> I spoke with brad and his only problem so far is downloading and installing gettext and the libintl library on windows.<brad_gar> got that working!<rick_777> oh?<rick_777> So you managed to compile Saya, or stumbled on another problem?<brad_gar> yup<rick_777> yup compile, or yup stumbled?<brad_gar> now its telling me that the Qt moc is too different, so I think downloading the 4.4.3 version should fix that<rick_777> hmmm<rick_777> i guess you should install 4.4.3<brad_gar> just ran out of time yesterday<rick_777> 4.5 is out, but it didn't go mainstream yet.<rick_777> we'll need some time before it's present in all repos.<rick_777> linux distro repositories, i mean.<RigoCalleja> k<rick_777> so for now we'll stick to 4.4.3<rick_777> Well, I guess that's all we can do for now<rick_777> (bummer)<rick_777> now<rick_777> I recall there were some issues worth discussing, right rigo?<rick_777> something about a blog<RigoCalleja> can you repeat your task assigment approach for these month Rich please?<rick_777> Ok<rick_777> our task assignment:<nekohayo> goddamnit, I was at the restaurant O_o is the meeting over?<LubomirD> you cando this with the moc problem :) instead: #elif Q_MOC_OUTPUT_REVISION != 59 you have to put #elif Q_MOC_OUTPUT_REVISION != 61<rick_777> brad: please help lubomir compile on windows. I feel there's some potential synergy in you two<rick_777> nekohayo: Not yet :)<RigoCalleja> what's up Jeff<brad_gar> will do!<rick_777> lubomir: Go on with finishing the developer's guide.<nekohayo> hey there folks :)<LubomirD> yes<rick_777> hi Jeff<rick_777> Alex: I hate to say this, but i think that we're stuck and you have no pending jobs for now... you can still try to analyse the source :)<nekohayo> hey there rick_777, RigoCalleja, and all others, sorry for being late<RigoCalleja> not to worry<rick_777> I guess it's the same for Rigo<mau5> no problem<RigoCalleja> k<rick_777> But hey, better have extra devs than having extra job and no devs :)<RigoCalleja> can you give us feedback on the status of the conversion please?<rick_777> Ok, the status of the conversion is... the same that it was last month with the exception of the New Project dialog.<RigoCalleja> elaborate?<rick_777> Ok...<RigoCalleja> just as a reminder<rick_777> let's see...<rick_777> the debuglog is finished and operational.<rick_777> the resources/effects panel is in progress, but the window / splitter is working, and it can be docked.<RigoCalleja> anything else?<rick_777> the enabling / disabling of menu items is nearly finished ( the labels menu is unfinished)<rick_777> The Saving and Loading of window layout is finished and operational.<rick_777> the video playback controls are working (the UI part) but we still need to incorporate the video output.<rick_777> the timeline is at 0%, just as it was before the conversion :)<RigoCalleja> OK if I can help you with some of that please let me know<rick_777> the new project dialog...<nekohayo> this is all in svn 272 I guess<RigoCalleja> is it Rich?<rick_777> i gues, let me see if i can update my SVN copy.<rick_777> kdesvn<rick_777> oops wrong window<RigoCalleja> Ok Jeff you turn, what did you this month?<nekohayo> uh, I flamed?<RigoCalleja> we worked on a proposal for a vision document<RigoCalleja> based on the basic unified process template<RigoCalleja> and information from the mission document<nekohayo> well, basically, Rigo worked on it<rick_777> (Also, the new project dialog seems to be finished at designing, but it's not incorporated yet)<rick_777> Before we go on to that document...<RigoCalleja> are you taking it or passing that task to me?<rick_777> Rigo, mind giving me a hand with the new project dialog? I'd like you to incorporate it into the source code (i.e. compile the UI file into a c++ file, modify the events so that a new project can be created using the UI)<nekohayo> RigoCalleja: you mean the .doc you sent me?<RigoCalleja> k<rick_777> ok, so what's about this doc<RigoCalleja> yes that one Jeff<rick_777> please update us<nekohayo> rigo started writing a more marketing-oriented mission statement<RigoCalleja> Jeff and I went through the mission document<rick_777> cool<RigoCalleja> exactly<rick_777> but why .doc? why not opendocument?<nekohayo> instead of a technical rebuttal of other approaches<nekohayo> rick_777: I would have asked the same question :)<nekohayo> but I guess it was not on purpose<RigoCalleja> so we have only started working on it* brad_gar has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))<RigoCalleja> when we have something we'll share for comments<nekohayo> RigoCalleja: I'm looking at the document right now<rick_777> Ok. So, Rigo and Jeff, you keep working on that document. By the way...<nekohayo> my take is that 1) you had all the essentials of it filled in nicely already 2) the feature list == the roadmap, no need to do it<rick_777> you might find Google Docs interesting. You can work on the same document at the same time.<nekohayo> so I thought it seemed ready<RigoCalleja> good idea Rich<nekohayo> yeah, I used google docs a lot. but then, as I said, I believe that document to be pretty much ready anyway<rick_777> So I guess Rigo has a double task this month: Working on the New Project dialog...<rick_777> and finishing that document.<RigoCalleja> k<RigoCalleja> In adition<RigoCalleja> Jeff shared a link to a blog* brad_gar has joined #saya-dev<RigoCalleja> to a person that's is knowedgable about video editors<brad_gar> back<nekohayo> eugenia?<RigoCalleja> she basically reaches the same conclusion as Rich<RigoCalleja> exactly<rick_777> welcome back brad<RigoCalleja> that current GNU/Linux editors are hard to use<nekohayo> not so sure that she reaches the same conclusions as rick.<RigoCalleja> lack features<rick_777> Rigo passed me the link... let me see if i have it around.... nope, lost it.<nekohayo> oh, on that point yeah<RigoCalleja> Jeff do you mind sharing to the list?<nekohayo> I guess you meant http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/01/20/video-editor-mockup/<rick_777> yes, that one<nekohayo> eugenia is one of the founders of osnews.com and a Vegas user like me<nekohayo> the mockup that she shows in that blog post is STRONGLY influenced by vegas<rick_777> hmmm that means that if we get saya to work fine, and make it rock solid as she wants,<rick_777> we could get a boost on publicity ;-)<nekohayo> you'll have to beat pitivi and kdenlive to that game :)<rick_777> for kdenlive i have no worries. It's not rock solid :P<RigoCalleja> Jeff and I identified those projects as important contenders<nekohayo> sure, but neither is saya-trunk ;)<rick_777> What "worries" me is pitivi, with all the extra help they're really adding a lot of features<rick_777> but competition is good :)<rick_777> Also, I've been surfing around blogs, and the Openshot video editor (the other guy who started a project around the same time as me),<rick_777> switched from GStreamer/GNonlin to MLT (same as kdenlive)<nekohayo> well, that one didn't sound quite serious, but I haven't checked its progress lately<rick_777> I guess the design choice to make Saya framework-independent was a good one.<rick_777> Now we can be sure that gnonlin isn't reliable as a video editing framework.<RigoCalleja> gnonlin?<rick_777> A gstreamer add-on for video editing<RigoCalleja> thnkx<RigoCalleja> ok are there adittional comments?<rick_777> Ok, I guess that is all for now... any comments?<rick_777> heh, you beat me<nekohayo> rick_777: and how can you be sure it isn't reliable?<rick_777> Jeff: From the OpenShot author's comments about it<nekohayo> in my case, it is more reliable than kdenlive ;) and I throw lots of bug reports/weird test cases at the devs<rick_777> let me link you to it.<nekohayo> sure<rick_777> http://www.openshotvideo.com/2009/03/mlt-vs-gnonlin-lets-get-it-on.html<nekohayo> pitivi is currently the only video editor in the world (except imovie) that can handle my camcorder's files<rick_777> I guess that blog post is becoming a flamebait, which is good for analysing pros/cons from a 3rd person point of view.<nekohayo> interesting<nekohayo> the first comment is from the developer of pitivi and gnonlin* nekohayo reads the blog post<RigoCalleja> why don't you share your comments on the blog post to the list Jeff?<nekohayo> *if* I have something relevant to say<RigoCalleja> k<rick_777> Ok...<rick_777> i guess there are no more comments for now<RigoCalleja> one more<RigoCalleja> team<RigoCalleja> guy from india?<rick_777> it seems his willpower is not enough to come to the meetings :)<RigoCalleja> and Agustin from Spain?<rick_777> same about him... haven't heard of him in the month.<RigoCalleja> k<RigoCalleja> no more comments here<rick_777> but right now we're back to the 5 devs + 1 beta tester, and that's not bad<rick_777> I think our team is complete for now.<nekohayo> wait a sec<rick_777> yes?<nekohayo> ah, it's 23 PM in india. Thought it was later than that<nekohayo> anyway<rick_777> yes?<nekohayo> reading through the blog post, to begin with, mp3 support works... if you uninstall the fluendo mp3 codec package in ubuntu (stupid thing. I bugged the pitivi devs about that, but for "political" reasons, they can't blacklist it). Second, diva never switched from gstreamer+gnonlin to mlt<nekohayo> diva just *died* when the dev underwent burnout<nekohayo> the rest is answered by bilboed<rick_777> I see.<RigoCalleja> one thing<rick_777> Oh man, we have so much ahead of us. We still haven't got to the point of really editing videos...<rick_777> but a long journey always starts with one step!<nekohayo> ... ;)<rick_777> Ok. Any more comments, anyone?<RigoCalleja> one more<RigoCalleja> Alex access to the repo<rick_777> mind rephrasing that please?<RigoCalleja> we were probably going to give him access this time<rick_777> Oh<rick_777> Right.<rick_777> let me scroll back.<nekohayo> rick_777: and what about this decentralized version control system migration ?<mau5> do you mean git?<rick_777> Jeff: Still pending, sorry.<nekohayo> bazaar is on my mind* nekohayo hates git for various reasons :)<rick_777> yes, from Jeff's comments, bazaar is much more friendly than git<nekohayo> this whole "commit access" thing sounds crazy when you are blocking other devs "because I'm still converting everything to QT myself"<rick_777> wait, that wasn't the reason for blocking access...<nekohayo> I thought it was part of the reason<nekohayo> the other being the "prove your worth before getting access"<rick_777> yes. And for that I'll give Alex write access.<RigoCalleja> k<nekohayo> in a DVCS, natural selection occurs. code happens. and when it's good, it is merged<rick_777> Well, I still don't think it's the right moment to change the version control system.<rick_777> sorry.<nekohayo> your call<RigoCalleja> I'll add a research task tough<mau5> http://excess.org/article/2008/07/ogre-git-tutorial/<mau5> good git overview..<RigoCalleja> great thanks Alex<mau5> i just heard about bazar, but dont know anything* nekohayo has a huge .txt file of notes about the hoops he has to go through to switch branches/update a branch in git :)<nekohayo> holy crap<nekohayo> that "git: the basics" slideshow<nekohayo> 277 slides!<rick_777> Alex, what was your berlios username?<mau5> alext<nekohayo> (for contrast: the "bazaar for SVN users" http://bazaar-vcs.org/BzrForSVNUsers )<RigoCalleja> Rich: assign a research bazaar task to Alex?<nekohayo> at least if you need help getting started with bazaar, I can give a hint or two, I've been using it extensively for a year<nekohayo> (I was using svn before that, and cvs before that)<mau5> ok, thanks<rick_777> well, the bazaar research is optional. If you want to do it, Alex, go ahead.<mau5> anyway, i put your link in my bookmarks<rick_777> BTW, i just finished changing your permissions to read/write.<RigoCalleja> k<rick_777> In a couple of days you'll be able to write to the repository.<mau5> thank you<rick_777> I guess this is all for now.<rick_777> Any last thoughts?<RigoCalleja> are you going to stay to help Lubomir Rich?<rick_777> Yes, after we close the meeting.<RigoCalleja> k<rick_777> This session is now closed.<rick_777> *bang* :)<RigoCalleja> :)<RigoCalleja> thank you everyone for attending<RigoCalleja> see you later<brad_gar> I'm going to stick around also<LubomirD> see you all<mau5> have a nice remaining weekend :)