I’m struggling more and more having any type of kind feelings toward my Relief Society President. Last December she approached me and asked me if Visiting Teaching ‘was even something I wanted to do?’ I was shocked at first, but then gathered myself and realized when we first moved to this ward I had asked to be taken off the VT list. My husband was working heavily out of town and I had very young children and visiting teaching was just one more thing I didn’t want, nor had the energy to do. After a second of thought I told her that things were really stressful for me at that time, so it might be better if she just takes me off again. I can’t remember everything that was said, but she basically told me 1. they only _wanted_ sisters that were actually going to do their VT and after I said take me off the list she said 2. It is building the kingdom of God and we should all do our part.

Ya because raising four children isn’t doing any of that.
I was so mad I about bit my husbands head clean off when I got home from church. I drove to the VT coordinators house (cried) and then told her I’m not doing it right now and that she would just have to deal with that.

Emotional manipulation doesn’t work well with me especially when they try to guilt me into ‘doing my part to further the kingdom of God.’ Screw that!

Sunday, the lesson was on Faith. The teacher began the lesson asking questions about faith and what faith means to us. She had about 7 pictures displayed of Faith promoting stories from the scriptures. All were male. Then she asked the class if there was a particular faith related story from the scriptures that we identified with. Most of the sisters that commented picked male faith promoting stories. I sat there, racked my brain thinking–there has to be some woman in the scriptures that did something amazing and why can’t I think of it right now? Just then the 2nd counselor in the RS presidency mentioned a lady from the New Testament. It was the lady that had the disease of the blood. She knew that if she could just touch the Saviors robe she would be healed. She did, the Savior noticed and sought her out. I sighed inside and thought, yes, thank you for reminding me of her . Then I pulled out my trusty smart phone and googled more woman of faith in the scriptures and was reminded that there were so many more that are rarely spoken about.

After this little part of discussion the teacher then showed a clip/movie that the church made of John Rowe Moyle, He was a stonemason that worked on the construction of the Salt Lake Temple. He was a pioneer, came west with a one of the first handcart companies, saw many hardships on the plains, settled in Alpine and walked 22 miles to Salt Lake every Monday morning and 22 miles back home every Friday. His wife was left to take care of the farm. He did this for over 20 years until one day, while he was milking his cow he got kicked in the leg. His leg was broken so bad that it had to be amputated. Once he healed he made himself a wooden stump and as soon as he was able began his trek back to work on the Salt Lake temple.

The sisters were all teary. I heard sniffles and saw many wipe at there eyes, and there I sat stone cold. I will not be emotionally manipulated by this pioneer story. I won’t. I won’t cry just because he decided to make himself a new leg and work on the temple. I won’t. (I’m suspecting that I felt this way because of all the conversation over at FMH about pioneer stories being used as emotional manipulation and I didn’t want to be suckered into it–by the way, it was a powerful story, just saying).

After the movie was over the teacher took that moment to ask us that ever Mormon question–do you have the strength to give up everything you have for the church?

I guffawed in my head. I sat there telling myself to shut it. Don’t say anything-this lesson isn’t for you. Don’t do it, don’t do it—

I raised my hand.

“See, the thing is,” I said, “we have to remember that we live in such a different time than these pioneers. We don’t have to walk 22 miles to build a temple. We don’t have to sacrifice what they had to sacrifice, and I think it’s important that we remember that. They sacrifice that they made were very physical. The church had just started up and needed every member to give up just about everything. There are so many members of the Church now that the majority of us aren’t asked to sacrifice what they were asked to sacrifice. Our sacrifices are much smaller, but still as important. After you asked about Faith stories I googled woman of faith in the scriptures and was reminded of the stripling warriors mothers. Now, I don’t know the exact situation in that story, but I assume that the reason those stripling warriors were so amazing was because of the everyday things their mothers did to teach them. I don’t recall them being asked to give all of the possessions they own to build a temple, or cross the plains. I assume they taught the young men, by say-having family home evening-by reading the scriptures, by loving them, by showing them how to be disciples of Christ, by serving and loving their fellow (wo)men, and by having a relationship with Heavenly Father, and the Savior. I think it’s important for us to remember that the small things count too”.

Rant over–

RS President…… “yes, but we need to remember that there are still big sacrifices to be made, like indexing and temple work, and genealogy. There are still many BIG (emphasis) sacrifices that we all can make.

I clamped my mouth shut so quick… I had to stop myself from saying–if you are comparing sitting in your comfortable home, in your pj’s, at your computer indexing or doing genealogy work, to walking 44 miles on a wooden leg a sacrifice we have some serious problems.

She’s an idiot.

Dying for the church/gospel is much easier than living for it.

I’m building the Lords kingdom and making sacrifices everyday of my life. Right now my biggest sacrifice is sharing my body with another human being. I also sacrifice/practice faith/build the kingdom of God by teaching my children to love, respect, serve, pray, have faith, question, listen, ponder, search out the meaning of the gospel and by all means do the best you can one day at a time. When my children make a mistake on purpose or accident I often tell them, ‘well let’s do better tomorrow, and I love you.’

Each day brings different challenges. I don’t do indexing, I don’t do genealogy, I don’t attend the temple as often as I should, I know I should pray more, read scriptures more, but today I’m doing the best I can with the tools I have and maybe I’ll be able to do better tomorrow….

Dying for the church/gospel is much easier than living for it. Great line!

Fwiw, my ggg grandmother was a non-member in the Willie handcart company. On the trek she lost her husband and two of nine children but she went on to join the church and become midwife delivering almost 2,000 babies. I sure there are many more stories like this perhaps the church historian could dig up a few work with correlation department to embellish them equal the men’s.

I don’t think there’s an argument here. Nothing says the pioneer sacrifices weren’t incredible and faith promoting, but it was a very different time and we are not asked to do those same things. We are asked to sacrifice our time, talents and resources for the kingdom, which includes bearing and teaching our children, reading scriptures, setting examples, attending meetings and, when and if we can, doing things like visiting and home teaching, holding callings, genealogy and temple work, etc.

I think you are making an argument where none need exist. And apologize to your poor husband, he’s just doing the best he can too.

No, more likely she’s an ISTJ or ESTJ. Great type to have as the head of an organization, very motivated, hard-working, and duty oriented, great with follow-through and loyalty to the organization, but they do tend ignore emotional needs and step on toes.

Next time they bring up Moyle as a model, ask why he was walking all that way on his stump — did he do it because his ward members were too oblivious to provide a ride for him? because he was too stubborn to accept help and was intent on making a bigger sacrifice than was called for?

The thing I like best to uncover in historical research are the stories of ordinary Latter-day Saints who accomplished extraordinary good simply by doing the ordinary things they should have done under the circumstances — filling their callings, earning a living, sharing a meal when they had it to share, raising their families, whatever. When you look around at the damage to lives and the harm to the world that occurs when parents neglect their children’s needs, then a regular pattern of saying “let’s do better tomorrow, and I love you” becomes an extraordinary thing worthy of notice and celebration and copying by others. So is bearing with the cluelessness of a Relief Society president, or the frustrated tears of a wife, or any of the other kind and generous — and difficult! — things that good people do. We demonstrate faith by believing that those things matter, and by reassuring each other than they matter.

I could pull a handcart — that’s nothing but individual grit and stubbornness. But dealing every day — every day! — with the myriad needs of young children, and doing it with grace and love and patience and steadiness, no. Once, probably, but not now. You’re doing it. That’s extraordinary.

I get what you are saying. My pet peeve is the RS lessons about missionary work. You know, the ones that say we should have the missionaries over for supper and invite our whole neighborhood to hear the gospel good news, hand out BofM’s for halloween, invite our children’s friends to Primary activities and bear our testimonies to the checkout clerk at the grocery store. Because we all know missionary work only counts if it is for people outside our home.
Teaching my children the gospel, helping them learn how to access the spirit and use it in their lives, definitely does not count as missionary work.
One time I really ticked off my RS pres. when she asked if anyone had a Missionary Moment to share with the group. I volunteered that one of my kids said something church related that let me know they understood a gospel principle and I was really excited about it. Yeah…..she explained to the class that although my experience was nice it didn’t quite qualify as a Missionary Moment.
I replied that I considered myself a missionary every day that I dealt with my family and that was the most important missionary work I could possibly do. She didn’t like that at all.
And then I went home and told my husband all about it, with extra emphasis on the “That Woman Drives Me Crazy” part. He understood.

John and MCQ, It took me the whole Sunday to figure out why I was so frustrated. I left because I was so mad and I didn’t want to continue to yell at him. I knew it wasn’t his fault, but I couldn’t figure out why I was so frustrated. After I had a chance to think and process what was bothering me I apologized to him and then drove over to the VT coordinators house. I didn’t add all that detail, and maybe I should have. I know it wasn’t his fault and he did the best he could to comfort me.

Researcher, she is very motivated, and she does get a lot done. She is also the type of person that smiles sweetly and asks how you are doing while rubbing your arm. If you said something to the affect of “I feel like doing myself bodily harm” she would continue to smile sweetly and tell you not to make a mess and walk away. Okay– maybe she’s not that bad, but I don’t hide the fact I have issues with her. Yes, they are my own and I’m working through them the best I can. I know she won’t be in this calling forever-one of the good things about the church- so now it’s a waiting game.

Ardis, I wondered that very thing throughout the video. Why wouldn’t anyone give him a ride into town? In the video it was mentioned that he wouldn’t let anyone help him with his cart. He was stubborn. So it’s possible he wouldn’t accept a ride from friends or neighbors. I love ordinary stories. I love hearing about ordinary people doing the best they can with what they have. I would love to hear of more current events, more faith promoting stories of LDS members now and what they have given to the gospel.

#4 – Thank you Ardis for pointing out something that has bothered me every time someone brings up Brother Moyle and his sacrifice. Really, 22 miles each way? And no one could give him a lift part way of the trip? And what about his wife being left behind to run the whole farm and raise the kids all by herself?
I say something smells about this story. If it really did go down the way the folklore says, I bet money he was a difficult person to deal with and having lots of quiet time was good for him and a break for his long-suffering wife. Sorry. That is my cynical take on a story that I have never cried about.

I’m going out on a limb here and tell you guys Sunshine and I are pretty good friends. We live in the same ward. Her husband is one of the best guys I know.

You would have to experience what she’s talking about to know how maddening it is. For me, I missed that lesson, and I realize teaching is scary as hell. But there’s an air—an aura, if you will, in our Relief Society meetings that lends itself to Stepford-itis.

Sunshine’s comments are always right on and usually she says what I’m thinking. The sweetly Nazi-ish feeling in our RS meetings tends to exclude even mild dissent and makes those of us who tend to feistiness even feistier. Sometimes righteous people can be incredibly insensitive and we’ve experienced that ad nauseum.

I’ve spoken about this before; my own experience has been the insulting tendency of said gentle Nazi to rebut everything I say. We also know each other well. She’s a good person, but I scare her. LOL. Really, I’m laughing out loud.

Sunshine, I believe the responsibility is ours. I haven’t found the answer yet; I struggle every time I go to RS NOT to let that spirit of contention I feel overwhelm me. I’ve been using humor to make my points.

I don’t know who was teaching that day, but ordinary people don’t consider feminist issues when teaching, they just want to survive that 45 minutes without throwing up in public. At the end of the day, we’re all just surviving.

BTW, have you noticed women have given the opening prayer for 3 weeks now? I ranted and I think they’re shoving women giving the opening prayer right down my throat.

Sunshine, I understand that you’re frustrated, but I’m not really understanding why.

You said, “visiting teaching was just one more thing I didn’t want…to do,” yet you were upset that the RS Pres asked if visiting teaching was “something [you] wanted to do.” I don’t know if you’ve ever served in a RS Presidency or as a VT Coordinator, but it can be frustrating to hear time and again how sisters are just too busy, too stressed, too whatever, to even attempt their visiting teaching. In my experience, when I’ve heard those excusesreasons, I can pretty much guess at those who just aren’t interested in participating. Perhaps your RS Pres was attempting to be honest with you and you took offense?

You also wrote, “Ya because raising four children isn’t doing any of that” (building the kingdom of God). If being a parent was a reason to get out of callings, we wouldn’t have hardly anyone to serve in callings. I know parenting takes its toll (yesterday was an especially challenging day for me personally), but it’s not a “get out of jail (or callings) free” card. I’ve been in that place where serving others seems almost impossible, and if you’re there, fine. You can ask to have your responsibilities reduced until life settles. But, please, please don’t be a Martyr Mother.

And you’re right most teachers don’t even give feminism a thought while preparing the lesson. Heck, two years ago I wouldn’t have even noticed that it was all men stories she was referring to. I just mentioned that part because I wanted to feel some connection to some other very powerful women. Women who have made a difference and I was sad that nothing came to the top of my head. If this is something I’m going to have an issue with then I must first educate myself. I should have known of more stories. That was my job.

LIZ–yes, you got it. I’ve had those conversations with my husband many, many times. And, I would have loved to have heard how Sis Moyle survived those 20 years. Raising a family without your spouse/significant other is hard shiz.

E, I don’t know, why? Maybe because I’m a huge pain in the arse? It’s fine if you feel that way because I already know that I am.

Read my #11. You have a point, PP, but it’s impossible to exaggerate the situation. If one has a tendency to rebel, as Sunshine and I do, the pressure to totally conform and nod one’s bobble head in agreement, is pretty maddening.

12. The VT thing is done and gone with. It happened last year and things are better. My point in bringing up that story is that she first said that she only wanted people who would do it to participate. Okay, fine I’m not going to do it so take me off. She wasn’t happy with that answer so then she tried to convince me that if I said no then I wasn’t building the Lords Kingdom. That is the part that made me mad. I don’t have a problem saying no. I’ve said it before. I just want them to accept that no means something real to me. I’m not just making a joke here. I’m serious. I don’t want to do it. And, honestly, I don’t have a testimony of VT so it’s a lot harder for me to get it done. Excuse? Possibly. I was VT coordinator in college and 1st counselor in the RS presidency in college as well (not that it really counts because, well it’s college). I’m a realist. Just tell me up front. Can you do it or not? No-okay thank you for serving and if you ever feel like it is something you can handle will you please let me know? I love you Sister SoandSo.

I’m not saying being a parent is your get out of jail free card, but there are times that it should count for something. I also think that life has so many wonderful seasons. Let your season come and embrace it when you can. I just read annegb story about saying no to a calling and you know what? The ward survived and got someone to fill that position. You can’t say yes to everything all of the time. It will burn you out.

I generally don’t like RS for this exact reason. I already feel unprepared to parent. I don’t need countless tales of people going the extra mile when I am a superstar for putting pants on.

Sunday school however is easier to stomach since there’s always the sidebar of the stories being a period of their time.

I had a thought the other day that your post confirmed. Some folks in ss and rs are there because leadership does not trust them with children. For me, it makes it easier to handle off the wall comments and insensitive lessons. After all would you rather your kids be hearing this?

So I wonder what people would think of me serving in my Ward as a dedicated Scout leader spending TONS and TONS of time Scouting and yet I don’t get my HTing done. Sometimes callings get in the way of HTing and VTing. I am sorry. That is the way it is for some callings.

We’re all amateurs doing the best we can, including unpaid church service.

In our ward, the problem is one of personality. In Alanon, we say “principles above personalities” a lot. I often find myself disagreeing with someone because there’s “just something about you that pisses me off.”

Like I said, when I hear something in RS that feels off, I try to joke about it. It eases the tension all around. Another thing I’ve done is ask a question highlighting the fallacy. For instance “I wonder how his wife dealt with this; could he have done all that without her?”

Sometimes, though, I feel I’m being beaten by a butterfly and I just want to smash that bug.

E, you’re right. We’re trashing a person without giving her the benefit of rebuttal. I feel kind of guilty about that, actually.

There are several issues at play in this post, though. I’ve noticed that we don’t hear those tear jerkers as much anymore; after 50 years, it’s hard to suspend one’s disbelief. Still, the pressure to conform and tear up is annoying and if one is iconoclastic, brings out one’s bad side.

Sometimes I wonder if this is the prophecy of separating sheeps and goats coming true and I’m a goat. But Jesus seemed to associate with rebels; he seemed to be a rebel. He preached against blind obedience for appearance’s sake. I struggle with those who bear testimony of the Savior while eschewing grace as a legitimate concept.

#17 NH – “I generally don’t like RS for this exact reason. I already feel unprepared to parent. I don’t need countless tales of people going the extra mile when I am a superstar for putting pants on.”

A few Sundays back, we were having a discussion in RS but I’m not sure what the main topic was (it was a Presidency lesson, not a book lesson). However, the discussion moved toward looking at other families/sister for inspiration. Lest anyone think I’m a Molly, I have to say I couldn’t stop myself from commenting. I said something along the lines of, “We need to remember that just because another family looks ‘perfect’ on Sundays and wonderfully happy that we don’t really know what those people or that family is really like. We shouldn’t be comparing ourselves to others–period. We should draw our inspiration from the Lord, not from admiring others.”

You could have heard a pin drop. And the poor sister teaching the lesson who is new to our ward and was just barely called into RS didn’t quite know what to say. But that whole “look at perfect sister Soandso” just bugs me.

Years ago some chick at church told me my testimony was so much stronger than hers and she wished she could be like me. I probably should have been flattered and more gracious than I was, but it made me want to gag. Please don’t make me your ideal. I have mountains of issues (which I try to own) even if I do sound fairly sure of myself most days.

It had me rolling! Seriously. When it comes to parenting, just trust your gut and tell other people to step off. If you love your children, are trying to listen to the spirit when raising them (even if you’re not perfect at this), and doing your best, you can only inflict so much damage. And that’s what therapy is for anyway!

I think that R.S. president goes home after trying her best and sobs her aching gut out. She is doing the best she can. You said, Sunshine, you are doing the best you can and kind of use that as an excuse. I am a very critical, rebellious person and I am not trying to be snarky, but do feminists weigh everything against feminism? I am very slowly beginning to see that may be the case. Heck, I always resented that my brothers never had to wash dishes after Thanksgiving dinner. I understand feminism up to a point. I work with men who figuratively pat me on the head. But there is something about the feminism I read in these posts that really bother me.

I agree with part of what you said, Chris. Except the part about the sobbing. That is so not happening. Others, now others are going home and crying from feelings of frustration and inadequacy. I could probably make you understand by telling you more, but I won’t.

As I said before, the gentle Nazis of the church are pretty clueless how they hurt others. They don’t think it’s possible for them to offend.

I’ve felt the same way about the feminist thing, too.

In this case, because I know the principals, I know the issue isn’t so much feminism as a pretty huge personality clash. I feel it, too, so I can’t criticize there. In fact, I probably feel it more. Again, I wonder if I’m a goat, not a sheep.

#26 annegb – “I agree … Except the part about the RS sobbing. That is so not happening.”

I agree with you on many things, annegb, but not this one. I was a very young RS President and I was likely what might be considered a “gentle Nazi” at the time.

I offended many during my short time in that calling and, on some levels, didn’t care because the work I needed to accomplish just had to be done. I knew I had to break up some visiting teachers and “teachees,” I had to release some sisters who’d been in their callings far too long, and we had to start teaching lessons by the book.

While I was sure of the tasks the Lord had given me, I was never unaware of the offense my actions caused. And I often cried over how to do a better job. Thank goodness for an amazing Stake RS Pres. who held my hand often as I explained how I had, yet again, ticked off some tender soul at church.

I firmly believe one of the reasons we don’t “church shop” as Mormons and just attend where we’re told is that this is part of the trial. Just as we’re stuck with our families, we are kind of “stuck with” our ward family.

I’m very critical by nature (it’s one of my biggest faults), but I keep trying to not assume anyone is as hard on the outside as they may seem.

Okay, just to be clear, and like I said in one of my comments above I know that I have issues with the RS pres. Has she offended me? Yes! Do I still come to church? Yes! Is she doing what she can with the tools she has? Yes! I do SEE all of this. I own my part which is why for the past, oh 6 months I have 100% VT. I still don’t have a testimony of it, but I’m doing it now. I still get bugged with some of the very trite, and unfeeling comments she makes. In my adult years of going to church there may have been, oh, say two times I have been offended enough that I thought about not coming anymore. I still go. Callings are tough, personality matches are even tougher and me and the RS pres don’t mesh. I don’t like her, and I doubt I’m high on her likable list. I’m okay with that. I know who I am and I own the fact that I, too, make many, many mistakes.

Kris, maybe you have a point. I will need time to ponder and think about what you mean and how it relates in my life.

PP, I am with annegb on the crying thing. I highly doubt she goes home and cries every Sunday.

Trying to navigate the tricky waters of encouraging the PH to go HT is really difficult. One of the reasons its tricky is that it can bring out all kinds of emotional baggage. The same is true I am sure of VT.

Another reason why VT has higher completion stats is that VTs are called to visit just the woman, while HTs are supposed to see the whole family. That’s a more difficult challenge. Also, VTs are generally allowed to count conversations over the back fence, over the phone or over the internet, while HTs are supposed to actually make a physical visit to the home.

My first calling in the Church was Visiting Teaching Supervisor and I have had that calling numerous other times in the Church. I think I am over 9 years straight. When people tell me why they were unable to visit teach such as having a sick family, I hope their personal needs are being met. Some teachers have openly told me about depression and how they were not able to even send a letter when I know in the pact they did this with gusto. I never want the sisters to feel judged and know that life happens and that we aren’t perfect. As sisters who are able do visit, I do hear very heart-warming stories from time to time.