Posted
by
Soulskill
on Sunday January 22, 2012 @05:22AM
from the some-things-are-worse-than-sopa dept.

An anonymous reader points out the case of Saeed Malekpour, an Iranian-born permanent resident of Canada who worked as a web developer. In 2008, during a visit to Iran, Malekpour was arrested and detained by Iranian authorities on charges that he designed and moderated "adult content websites." In 2009, he was sentenced to death for "acting against the national security, insulting and desecrating the principles of Islam, and agitating the public mind." Malekpour wrote photo-uploading software, and in a letter he sent from prison, he said it was used by porn sites without his knowledge. This week an Iranian court reviewed the case and confirmed that the death sentence was an acceptable punishment. According to one Canadian publication, "Human rights monitors believe that Malekpour, one of a number of people held on Internet-related charges, is trapped by a convoluted justice system that is manipulated by rival factions in Iran."

What really irks me is that case of American hikers caught by the Iranians in Iraq. First of all, why do they have to go to Iraq to go hiking? They KNOW it's dangerous. By being caught, they gave Iran a bargaining chip. What the hell is wrong with these people?

Remote, but not inaccessible or dangerous. My Antarctica trip started with a (small) ship from the Falklands through the Drake Passage to Antarctica. Good food, tea and fresh baked cookies at 4, and lectures in the evening. A few days' sail and we were hiking extinct volcanos among the penguin colonies on the continent.

It is credible. Hiking's not my passion, but in mine there are "places to go" that are considered way better that what you can find in the US. If you've advanced far enough in your sport and want to push the limits ever further, you have to go to places that are dangerous. The danger you intend to face is environmental, but the countries that happen to house them also contain political dangers, as in your country hates my country.

It's completely plausible. It's also possible they're spies, but it seems like a really dumb cover story. I don't speculate which is true because without direct info I can only say both are possible.

One possibility: Their CIA or DIA superiors ordered them to. Just because the Iranians are bastards about who they'll execute doesn't mean that they weren't spies, and the US intelligence agencies would definitely lie to the US public about whether they were spies in order to avoid blowing people's cover. In fact, they may even use a completely false story to try to convince the public that going to war with Iran is a good idea, if they have leadership that is part of the old and honorable profession of sta

The United States has not denied a single extradition request from the UK under the treaty. While the U.S. does send more extradition requests to the UK than it receives, this difference is largely due to the differences in the size of the respective populations. The panel report notes that the U.S. has a population about five times the size of the UK, but there have been fewer than twice the number of people extradited to the U.S. than to the UK. The number of U.S. requests is not disproportionate.

The standards are the same in practice:

All extradition requests between the U.S. and UK must meet the same evidentiary standard: probable cause. All requests from the U.S. must meet the standard of “reasonable suspicion” required under UK law. However, all requests from the U.S. must also be based on a charging document that meets the “probable cause” standard required under U.S. law. This is the same standard that the U.S. requires of extradition requests from the UK The panel reviewed the evidence and concluded: “There is no practical difference between the information submitted to and from the United States.”

Umm, a smaller population should mean a smaller number of extradition requests, sounds like the U.K. is being screwed by an order of magnitude.

Oh, I understand your point, a larger population means a larger number of rich assholes to take offense at your mostly harmless activities. Yeah, maybe that's possible, but I didn't check how many were bullshit extraditions. It might be Americans just throw a shit ton of people in jail for no good reason though. Occam's Razor.

Great comparison between justice systems in Iran and USA. Those who moderated the parent insightful deserve being sent to Iran to get a clue. They should bring their porn collections for initial evidence.

Why? Most people in both countries can live quite happily without ever being involved with the legal system (I've not been to Iran, but I have a few friends from there, so admittedly I'm only speaking based on second-hand information). In both cases, you can be imprisoned for quite ludicrous things (e.g. owning a specific quantity of a certain kind of plant in the USA). In both places, the state reserves the right to kill its citizens.

You can happily live in any country without being involved with the legal system (though definition of happiness may vary substantially). The question is what happens if you do become involved, for one reason or another. Do you honestly think you'll receive the same kind of treatment in both?

Buddy, you don't have the first clue about what REALLY goes on in the US "justice system".I mean you have no fucking idea. All you "know" is what you have been told by the people whowant you to believe you live in a free and just society. Well, the truth runs counter to the idea thatthe US is a free and just society.

I have done time in the US system.

In the US, torture does happen, to US citizens. It's called "diesel therapy". Ask anyprison guard about this phrase. There are also people who have been locked up for yearswithout a trial. The method used for this is for a judge to order the person sent to a prisonfacility which has psychological "expertise". The person can be held there with no trial foryears, and his friends and family don't even know what has happened to him. Yes, this is terrifying,and it is real. No, I don't have a citation, because the government makes it difficult to acquireevidence about these things. But I will stake my life that everything I wrote is true.

No, in the US you only need to be born black in Detroit to be put to death.

Meanwhile hosting a website that links to other websites can earn you 20 years in jail when you've never even fucking visited the fucking country.

I haven't even mentioned the decade of torture and false imprisonment in a foreign country for the evil crime of "pissing off someone that works for the Americans". Or do you really believe that everyone in Guantanamo is guilty?

Trust me, from where I'm sat the US poses are far greater threat to my ongoing life and freedom than Iran does.

Strangely enough the CIA, which is reviewing this thread, doesn't mind you bad mouthing it. In fact, I think they enjoy knowing that they are feared. They do, however, have a problem if you start talking about blowing things up or something of that ilk. I can't imagine why. And I'm pretty sure they enjoy looking at Porn so the dude would have been fine on a trip to the US.

He's reacting to the equivalence fallacies.This is what happens on Slashdot every single time:

1. Some other country trespasses egregiously on human rights (e.g. death penalty for software unwittingly used by porn sites)2. First comment says "this is no different than the USA", gets modded +53. Someone responds to that post with "that's not a fair comparison since the US reacts differently for [crime in topic]"4. Someone like you twists #3's words around to frame him as an apologist with low standards when in fact he was calling out the non-sequitur for having no logical connection.5. Someone chimes in about how this is a cultural phenomenon and we should sympathize with abusive foreign governments [slashdot.org] (to which I can only laugh because it begs the silly question: why doesn't the world sympathize with the abusive US government for reasons of cultural understanding?)

Yes of course you SHOULD be vigilant in policing the abuses by the government, but when you can no longer separate bad from worse, you will have lost all hope of separating good from bad. If you want a country to get better, then you better know exactly where it stands in relation to others, those which are better than it and those which are worse than it. Only what that self-knowledge can you seek to improve. Defeatist like #2 have neither the insight nor the inclination to improve a country.

Well actually, Obama just executed an American citizen (Al Awlaki) by drone attack without any evidence, not even a show trial, and it appears that the reason was posting partisan videos in which he talked smack about America. So at least in Iran you get a show trial before your execution. The fact that people look at this story and think "Iran is Evil" without thinking the same of the Feds, should create huge cognitive dissonance. That it does not, suggests to me that the civil liberties our country was founded on don't have much time for this world, at least not in America.

That is an utterly ludicrous statement. Degree absolutely does matter, there's a huge difference between killing someone and fining them, for example, even if both are abuses of human rights. The fact that one abuse is of lesser degree doesn't make it right, or acceptable, but it does mean that its less bad than the abuse of greater degree.

If my country tortures just one person, it's lost any kind of moral high ground from which to cast criticism

Now you've changed your argument from "degree doesn't matter" to "quantity doesn't matter". That I can agree with, not so much because quantity truly doesn't matter but because accepting a given degree of abuse in small quantities almost inevitable results in that abuse in greater quantity over time.

I do have to point out that there are different forms of torture, which constitute different degrees of abuse, however. None are acceptable, and I do not approve of my country engaging in torture at all, but there are still differences between playing loud music all night, waterboarding and flaying.

you can be gunned down by Apache helicopters for peacefully assemblingyou can be thrown into indefinite jail on the word of a paid informantIf you are a foreign leader, you can be deposed and hungor deposed and brought into the US to stand trial for breaking US lawsIf you are a foreign citizen, you can be extradited and put in jail for breaking civil lawIf you are a US citizen the president can have you killed by the CIAYou can be tortured by the US (for some definitions of torture)You can be shipped to another country and tortured (for all definitions of torture)

I dunno, it's a tough choice. Is Iran worse than the US because it visits harsh penalties on a few people, or is the US worse because it's actions are milder but more widespread?

Because, as we know, we can only oppose one evil at a time. Comparing the relative evil helps us to make that choice.

Canada should go to war over this. Another country is murdering one of their citizens (Iranian born or not) on trumped-up charges. Are there any crimes in this savage country that don't deserve the death sentence?

Yes. Arar was wrongfully sent home to Syria, a country he is a citizen of, and they tortured him. He was cleared of any charges by them and a Canadian commision. He was later apoligized to by the Canadian Premier and awarded 10.5 million dollars(Canadian). A clear case of wrong doing by over zealous governments. It still hardly compares to the case above. Want to bet this guy survives to collect any money? Would you really rather take you chance with Iranian justice instead of US or Canadian? Don't

Interesting reading. You do realize he was captured in a firefight in Afghanistan don't you? That is the very definition of enemy combatant. He pled guilty to five charges and is serving an 8 year sentence for murder. Hardly sounds like a tourist and at least he can look forward to going home one day. I'm not a fan of Guantanamo Bay, if people are caught they should be tried and sentenced if guilty or sent home if innocent. This crap of holding on to people for years with no trial is definetly wrong a

Seriously the guy pled guilty. It's not a kangaroo court, they follow rules even if those rules are not unanimously approved by everyone. Evidently the torture isn't of an all consuming nature there since many of the detanees maintain their innocence. Many have been released due to lack of evidence which doesn't happen in kangaroo courts. Again, while I don't agree with what goes on at Guantanamo it's not even close to what passes for justice in Iran.

Also worth mentioning, Iran executes people for these "crimes" in the most gruesome, and painful ways possible: beheading, hanging, even stoning. The hangings are usually suspension hangings which are far more painful, and last much longer.

After observing the Canadian conservative government go for a while now, I would say don't expect them to do anything. They'll just ignore it, because 1) he's Iranian, 2) it won't contribute to get them reelected and 3) it won't contribute to some good friends in the prairies.

At most, what they could do is revoke his permanent residency and put some security flag on him (ie. put him on some potential dangerous people list).

The conservative, not only do they fail at understanding anything related to interna

Yeah. I mean it's not like Canada can do much after all, after it tells it's citizens. Don't go there. And it can't do much diplomatically besides recalling it's ambassadorship, and besides it's not like we're already in a roll with them after refusing them another embassy in the country because they're terrorist scuzz suckers in the first place either. You don't know as much as you think you know, let alone understand as much as you think you know.

Diplomacy would be a better move... It's quite likely that Canada could achieve his release through diplomatic channels. Or at least, it was quite likely before the current administration took over.... Now, I'm not so sure. But going to war with Iran wouldn't achieve anything, nor would it be a particularly intelligent move. Far more people would die.

Part of the problem is that this person is a dual citizen. He's both Iranian and Canadian. If he had renounced his Iranian citizenship when he got his Canadian

One day a guy was sleeping in the sun with his pants off, and the papa tapeworm and the baby tapeworm got out in the sun. It was a first for the baby, so it looked at everything with big eyes and started asking. Pa, pa, what is this big shiny blue dome? The sky, son, the sky. Pa, pa, what is this shiny yellow thing in the middle of the sky? The sun, son, the sun. Pa, pa, what is the beautiful green thing all around? A meadow, son, with flowers. Pa, pa, when there are so many beautiful things in the world, why do we live in this stinking hole? Motherland, son, motherland.

In this case, family matters. His father was (still is?) terminally ill. He wanted to see his dying rather one more time while he still had the chance. A story worthy of a cheap soap, but in this case happens to be true.

On the one hand, one might argue that Malekpour knew - or should have known - what he risked by returning to Iran.

OTOH, the death penalty is heinous in and by itself.

The question that comes to my mind, and that I would very much like to have feedback upon, is: does this case deserve a campaign, under "us" computer programmers, geeks, architects, database tuners and birds of many digital feathers, to free Malekpour ?

You know, it's easy to just glaze over things like, "conversion from int to long," "unused variable," or "insulting and desecrating the principles of Islam." But it's better to fix them . . . it may save your life!

While religion can be destructive at times, it does do a lot of good. I'm an atheist, but stating that religion should not be allowed is a violation of human rights. Prosecuting every religion is the same as prosecuting just one, which is often what happens in countries like Iran. However, the death penalty definitely should be banned.

If they had their way, this is the kind of "justice" that they want: the worst penalty they can get away with, using the full power of the state, and no effective appeal. In both cases, tyranny is the desired result.

Iran currently has one among the most insulting and desecrating governments on planet Earth.

It is one among many countries who detain foreign nationals without a proper legal system, and like many other 3rd world countries it has retained the death penalty.

How many countries act on these lethal principles? I don't know, but the list is long and is typically related to countries where the populace and those who believe in supernatural forces have a say on the political agenda.

So, a piece of software for photo uploading can damage islam? WHat a f*cking weak religion.

Looks more like maybe he was the sole inheritor of property of his father, and someone wanted him out of the picture. So they came up with the grand charge of 'insulting islam' and bribed some judges..

Tell me, according to these islamists, is there any person alive on earth (except those unwashed bearded mullas) who are not guilty of insulting islam some way or the other?

Heck, everyone connected with any part of internet would all be guilty of insulting islam and therefore target for murder, then.

Never forget [slashdot.org] that governments are inherently evil, because they occupy the space that is historically occupied by the inherently evil forces that fight for power over people.

That's why Constitution is important - law above the government set by the people to limit what government can do.

That is why people who should really be supporting a system of laws set by the Constitution, but who find themselves defending government's action that go above and beyond any Constitutional restrictions are so confused. Often those are the people who want government to cuddle them and give them entitlements and put obligations on others to provide those entitlements, but then government gains strength over all people and those who rely on entitlements are the ones who are going to suffer at the end, because those don't want entitlements can already take care of themselves and always see a government for what it is.

Constitution by itself means nothing. All dark regimes (including Iran and N. Korea) have some kind of constitution - it doesn't prevent the governments from either completely ignoring it or adjusting the constitution to their needs.

What's really required for the constitution to work is an independent authority with power to enforce it, and much more importantly, people willing to stand for their freedoms.

Look at the republican debates. Any time that the warmongers on the stage talk about attacking Iran and building the most powerful military in the world that nobody would ever even think about attacking USA - there are applause.

When Ron Paul says: do to others as you want to be done to you - he gets booed by the crowed.

What Ron Paul needs to suggest is that it is not he, who is 'weak on defence', it's the people then, because if asking Congress to declare a proper war is 'weak on defence', then

...are bound by illogical and fantasy rules & regulations that only makes sense to a fanatically indoctrinated mind.

The headline in this post is also typical of the sensationalist kind, yes - it's sad that it's a web developer that got the death sentence, but it would be equally sad that it would be anyone in any other category as well, it's why they're being judged that we should react on - not what status they have in society.

Saeed Malekpour was in Iran to visit his gravely ill father. He was waiting for Canadian citizenship and the Iranian regime are aiming to make an example of him, having tortured him and denied him due process. I think the Canadian government does have a particular moral duty to stand up for him under the circumstances, although really all democratic governments ought to oppose this sort of thing.

The Iranian regime seems to have an interest in intimidating the population (and making an example out of cases that are highly-publicised internally, such as this one) since there's an election coming up in March, as well as the general interest in keeping the population scared.

Bombing is easy. The US is good at bombing. The problem is what to do afterwards. If you just bomb and then ignore, you end up with the government reforming or a worse government emerging, and in a few years you're back where you started - except that now the people hate the western world even more, because they lost friends and relatives in the attacks. You could bomb and occupy to control the rebuilding, but that is very expensive - just look at the fiasco in Iraq, how much that cost over how many years.

This is what happens when any country is run by insert religion here. We see it in Iran, Pakistan, Iraq, etc. These countries really are better off under dictators rather than leading themselves, compare Saudi Arabia to Somalia. We will see a lot more of this in the "Arab Spring" countries. I expect to be modded down by the PC crowd with their "all belief systems are equal" and "a Theocracy can be just as good as secular democracy (as long as it isn't Christian)" comments but they are just ignoring what actually happens whenever insert religious group here get into power. Surprise surprise they follow the teaching of insert religion here - from a demented warlord with a taste for little girls.

Bonus points: come up with five religions that could make the above quote factually correct.

Not, I would say, a particularly PC view, and doubtless one that will get you modded troll quicker than a quick thing. But I would temper your view with a rather more - shall we say diplomatic? - way of putting things.

Some views are fundamentally incompatible and unless both parties are prepared to compromise, conflict will ultimately result. Full stop, end of conversation. Get together people who feel strongly enough to kill to make their point and give them the means to do so, you probably shouldn't be too surprised when they do. There's no way of getting around this, and to pretend there is is probably the most damaging thing extreme political correctness has ever achieved.

In this case, the conflict is between very conservative Muslims who happen to be in charge of a country and the West, but it could just as easily be between animal liberation people and drugs testing labs.

Not, I would say, a particularly PC view, and doubtless one that will get you modded troll quicker than a quick thing. But I would temper your view with a rather more - shall we say diplomatic? - way of putting things.

Some views are fundamentally incompatible and unless both parties are prepared to compromise, conflict will ultimately result. Full stop, end of conversation. Get together people who feel strongly enough to kill to make their point and give them the means to do so, you probably shouldn't be too surprised when they do. There's no way of getting around this, and to pretend there is is probably the most damaging thing extreme political correctness has ever achieved.

In this case, the conflict is between very conservative Muslims who happen to be in charge of a country and the West, but it could just as easily be between animal liberation people and drugs testing labs.

Islam is not just incompatible with the west but fundamental principles such as equality, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, right to life (for homosexuals etc.), democracy, and a lot more. Its true that some animal testers would go to war with anti-vivisectionists and vice versa, but they would want a reformulation of laws that would apply to everyone - they would not want to prevent certain sections from expressing their view or testifying in court. Islam is fundamentally opposed to our ideas of righ

If america is going to shut down websites and prosecute foreign citizens (MegaUpload.com) for violation of OUR laws then we should expect the same from foreign countries. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.Im Just Sayin

So take the guys cars away from him.

OTOH, maybe this is just the start of the outsourcing of the death penalty by the US. "Attention MegaUpload.com guy, due to technical difficulties the plane currently extraditing you to the US for trial is making a brief stopover in Iran. Feel free to get out and stretch your legs.".