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Laws On Discharging A Firearm On Someone?

Okay I got confused reading a thread up here so now I got some questions? I took Concealed Weapons Course Last year but I forgot some laws. Can you shoot someone though a door or window if they are breaking and entering? After they have entered the are room where you are then they have to cause bodily harm to you correct? Can you shoot someone if they are harming another person but not you? And Do you Have To pronounce you have a gun? And do you have to try to flee from the scene?

Someone just list the laws for me to refresh my memory

Also if someone is robbing a store and you happen to be there and they are beening held at gunpoint can you discharge your firearm on the gunman?

Okay I got confused reading a thread up here so now I got some questions? I took Concealed Weapons Course Last year but I forgot some laws. Can you shoot someone though a door or window if they are breaking and entering? After they have entered the are room where you are then they have to cause bodily harm to you correct?

NC doesn't have a Castle Doctrine on the books yet. This is what's available right now:

GRNC will be working on getting a Castle Doctrine passed during the next legislative session.

Originally Posted by bgreene89

Can you shoot someone if they are harming another person but not you?

If you did not witness the altercation from the get-go, it is recommended to not get involved other than calling 911 and being a good witness. You can protect others using deadly force as long as the person you're protecting has the same right to deadly force. You have to be certain the person you want to render assistance was not the aggressor to begin with, and is now getting their butt whipped by the victim.

Originally Posted by bgreene89

And Do you Have To pronounce you have a gun?

No. More importantly, would you want to give an assailant a warning which may give them an opportunity to shoot you before you shoot them?

Originally Posted by bgreene89

And do you have to try to flee from the scene?

I'm trying to find the statute on this, but yes, you have a duty to retreat when the situation does not apply to GS 14‑51.1, and you're able to retreat safely.

No offense, but these are really questions you should know the answer to, especially if you've taken the CHP course and intend to carry. You've already been told the answers to these questions once, and the knowledge didn't stick. I'm not going to list the answers here, as I don't think it will help you in the long run. With some internet research, specifically reading NC statutes and the AG release, you should easily find the answers to your questions.

Please don't take this as an insult or me trying to be an ass; I just really think you need to form a firm grasp on the situations when deadly force is appropriate, and I don't think you can get that from such a simple question and answer situation if you didn't get it from your CHP course.

"They don't give a damn about any trumpet playing band
It ain't what they call rock and roll
And the Sultans...
Yeah the Sultans, they play Creole"

The short and dirty answer is that generally you may elect to use force that is potentially lethal in a situation where you are actually facing what you believe AND CAN PROVE a potentially lethal force against YOU.

Some states allow you to intervene for the benefit of someone whom you are witnessing a potentially lethal use of force against them. Some states may restrict this to a family member or relative, others expand it to anyone in your presence.

Also beware, some states require the you first retreat BEFORE you use or threaten to use potentially lethal force.

Disclaimers: I am not a resident of YOUR state. I am not an attorney, and this has not been legal advise. The above information is worth exactly what you have paid for it.... NOTHING! Your mileage may vary!

There is no duty to retreat in NC, provided it is an altercation you did not start nor unjustifiably escalate.

Since I was looking for this and did not find it the other day. Do you have a site for it? In your home or on your property there is no duty to retreat. That's in the use of force on an intruder statute.

But NC definitely does not have a stand your ground law. You don't have to retreat from an immediate threat to life, great bodily harm, or sexual assault. But you can't stand your ground and have it escalate into a deadly force situation even if you did not start it. You have to attempt to retreat. Or I am missing something here?

Since I was looking for this and did not find it the other day. Do you have a site for it? In your home or on your property there is no duty to retreat. That's in the use of force on an intruder statute.

If there is a cite regarding duty to retreat, it would be required that it be specifically to retreat. If it is not enumerated, the duty isn't there.

But you can't stand your ground and have it escalate into a deadly force situation even if you did not start it. You have to attempt to retreat. Or I am missing something here?

Also, do you have a cite for this?

Last edited by sultan62; 12-17-2010 at 02:45 AM.

"They don't give a damn about any trumpet playing band
It ain't what they call rock and roll
And the Sultans...
Yeah the Sultans, they play Creole"

Dont take this TheWrong Way Please Really!

Originally Posted by sultan62

No offense, but these are really questions you should know the answer to, especially if you've taken the CHP course and intend to carry. You've already been told the answers to these questions once, and the knowledge didn't stick. I'm not going to list the answers here, as I don't think it will help you in the long run. With some internet research, specifically reading NC statutes and the AG release, you should easily find the answers to your questions.

Please don't take this as an insult or me trying to be an ass; I just really think you need to form a firm grasp on the situations when deadly force is appropriate, and I don't think you can get that from such a simple question and answer situation if you didn't get it from your CHP course.

Don't take this the wrong way I am not trying to be rude nothing. I do remember alot from concealed handgun class, but I also want to make double sure about the laws before I shoot someone no matter what the situation is! Id rather someone shoot me, and then I shoot back before I get sent to prison. And I found my book he gave us in the class to take home so now I know the laws.

Thanks for the information everyone, yall are a real help and very friendly most friendlest forum yet I have found!

Don't take this the wrong way I am not trying to be rude nothing. I do remember alot from concealed handgun class, but I also want to make double sure about the laws before I shoot someone no matter what the situation is! Id rather someone shoot me, and then I shoot back before I get sent to prison. And I found my book he gave us in the class to take home so now I know the laws.

Thanks for the information everyone, yall are a real help and very friendly most friendlest forum yet I have found!

The link above doesn't have much to do with firearms, But There is some GREAT info, Including but not limited too, ways to prevent having to use deadly force (and what to expect IF you have to use your weapon. )

"(2) Duty To Retreat Before Using Deadly Force Unless and exception such as those listed below applies, a citizen must retreat before using deadly force if retreat is possible.
Exception
A. There is no duty to retreat before using deadly force if the assault threatens imminent death or great bodily harm - a murderous or felonious assault or sexual assault.
Exception
B. There is no duty to retreat before using deadly force if the victim is on his or her own premises, or on his or her business premises, or is at home. "

Oddly enough, the only place I can find this on the net is on a local news website.

"(2) Duty To Retreat Before Using Deadly Force Unless and exception such as those listed below applies, a citizen must retreat before using deadly force if retreat is possible.
Exception
A. There is no duty to retreat before using deadly force if the assault threatens imminent death or great bodily harm - a murderous or felonious assault or sexual assault.
Exception
B. There is no duty to retreat before using deadly force if the victim is on his or her own premises, or on his or her business premises, or is at home. "

Oddly enough, the only place I can find this on the net is on a local news website.

I have not seen this spelled out in the General Statutes. But it appears to be the common way duty to retreat is interpreted by LEO's. If you can leave, you need to leave.

hotrod, my intent with that statute is that it's the only place I can find where the duty to retreat is not applicable. In your home or on your property.

Right, I was seconding what you said, Because of what sultan62 said about NC not having a duty to retreat (Which is true in your own home ETC)But outside the home I haven't found anything either.
Unless me and you both are missing something. LOL

Deadly Foce Law!

A Citizen is legally justfied in using deadly force against another if and ONLY if:

a) The citizen actually believes deadly force is necessary to prevent an imminent threat of death, great bodily harm, or sexual assault and

b) The facts and circumstances prompting that belief would cause a person of ordinary firmness to believe deadly force was necessary to prevent an imminent threat of death, great bodily harm, or sexual assault, and

c) The citizen using deadly force was not an instigator or aggressor who voluntarily provoked, entered, or continued the conflict leading to deadly force, and

d) Force used was not excessive - greater than reasonably needed to overcome the threat posed by a hostile aggressor.

2) Duty To Retreat USING deadly force

Unless an exception such as those listed below applies, a citizen must retreat before using deadly force if retreat is possible.

Exception A. There is no duty to retreat before using deadly force if the assault threatens imminent death or great bodily harm-a murderous or felonious assault or sexual assault.

Exception B. There is no duty to retreat before using deadly force if the victim is on his or her own premises, or on his or her business premises, or is at home.

4) Deadly Force in DEFENSE of others

A citizen may intervene and use deadly force in defense of another person when, under the facts and circumstances, it reasonably appeared necessary to save the other person from an imminent threat of death, great bodily harm, or sexual assault but only to the extent the other person was entitled to use deadly force in self defense. Excessive force in defense of others is not allowed, and neither the intervener nor the person threatened can be an instigator voluntarily provoking the conflict for deadly force to be used. If you are not sure of the circumstances that initiated the action, would it not be more prudent to contact law enforcement agency or attempt to assist using less lethal means rather than immediately imposing the threat of deadly force.

Deadly force may NOT be used:

a) To stop a Simple assault

b) Because of the use of violent language

c) Because you are a victim of past violence and fear violence

d) Because a trespasser refuses to leave

e) To arrest a criminal or prevent a criminal's escape

Use Of Force to Protect Property

a) The law does not permit the use of deadly force solely to protect property, or to prevent theft, or to regain stolen property. An Owner can defend his or her property using reasonable and necessary force but not deadly force. A different rule applies if at the same time life is imminently threatened.

All that came from my Concealed Handgun Class Book.
So for those of you that are unsure about the laws there they are.

GRNC will be working on getting a Castle Doctrine passed during the next legislative session.

If you did not witness the altercation from the get-go, it is recommended to not get involved other than calling 911 and being a good witness. You can protect others using deadly force as long as the person you're protecting has the same right to deadly force. You have to be certain the person you want to render assistance was not the aggressor to begin with, and is now getting their butt whipped by the victim.

No. More importantly, would you want to give an assailant a warning which may give them an opportunity to shoot you before you shoot them?

I'm trying to find the statute on this, but yes, you have a duty to retreat when the situation does not apply to GS 14‑51.1, and you're able to retreat safely.

The threat of serious bodily harm or death has to be present. And you still have the duty to retreat if you can safely.

IANAL

From NC's law, that is in deed Castle Doctrine. You can use deadly force to protect your home from unlawful entry.

§ 14‑51.1. Use of deadly physical force against an intruder.

(a) A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence is justified in using any degree of force that the occupant reasonably believes is necessary, including deadly force, against an intruder to prevent a forcible entry into the home or residence or to terminate the intruder's unlawful entry (i) if the occupant reasonably apprehends that the intruder may kill or inflict serious bodily harm to the occupant or others in the home or residence, or (ii) if the occupant reasonably believes that the intruder intends to commit a felony in the home or residence.

(b) A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence does not have a duty to retreat from an intruder in the circumstances described in this section.

(c) This section is not intended to repeal, expand, or limit any other defense that may exist under the common law. (1993 (Reg. Sess., 1994), c. 673, s. 1.)

From NC's law, that is in deed Castle Doctrine. You can use deadly force to protect your home from unlawful entry.

But by the letter of the law your chance to use deadly force ends once they gain entry. Unless they meet the criteria for deadly force again. That's what everyone wants a real CD for. So that there is no question that it's justified and for the the Civil immunity. FWIW, I agree with what you are getting at. And I have yet to see a DA in NC press the issue. But I would rather they did not have the choice to press the issue either.

Originally Posted by sultan62

I'm still waiting to see the law, as opposed to something in the CHP class book. Sorry guys-that ain't law.

I've tried to find it. As far as I can tell, it's the Justice Academies interpretation of some law. While it might not be law, as in a GS statute, it still needs to be considered in this type of debate. Law or not, if it's a generally accepted interpretation it could cause some serious issues. And it's an interpretation that's been run through the AG's office as well.

§ 14-51.1. Use of deadly physical force against an intruder.
(a) A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence is justified in using any
degree of force that the occupant reasonably believes is necessary, including deadly force,
against an intruder to prevent a forcible entry into the home or residence or to terminate the
intruder's unlawful entry (i) if the occupant reasonably apprehends that the intruder may kill or
inflict serious bodily harm to the occupant or others in the home or residence, or (ii) if the
occupant reasonably believes that the intruder intends to commit a felony in the home or
residence.

SUBCHAPTER IV. OFFENSES AGAINST THE HABITATION AND OTHER
BUILDINGS.
Article 14.
Burglary and Other Housebreakings.
§ 14-51. First and second degree burglary.
There shall be two degrees in the crime of burglary as defined at the common law. If the
crime be committed in a dwelling house, or in a room used as a sleeping apartment in any
building, and any person is in the actual occupation of any part of said dwelling house or
sleeping apartment at the time of the commission of such crime, it shall be burglary in the first
degree. If such crime be committed in a dwelling house or sleeping apartment not actually
occupied by anyone at the time of the commission of the crime, or if it be committed in any
house within the curtilage of a dwelling house or in any building not a dwelling house, but in
which is a room used as a sleeping apartment and not actually occupied as such at the time of the
commission of the crime, it shall be burglary in the second degree. For the purposes of defining
the crime of burglary, larceny shall be deemed a felony without regard to the value of the
property in question. (1889, c. 434, s. 1; Rev., s. 3331; C.S., s. 4232; 1969, c. 543, s.

So If I am reading the bold section correct, If you break in to a house in the context shown in GS § 14-51
and commit larceny (Larceny defined below with link) without regard to the amount of the property its a felony.
So If I break in to your home in the context shown above, And I make it too your counter and I take some of your Tylenol I have committed a felony.

IANAL

IANAL

http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=1105
larceny
n. the crime of taking the goods of another person without permission (usually secretly), with the intent of keeping them. It is one form of theft. Some states differentiate between grand larceny and petty larceny based on the value of the stolen goods. Grand larceny is a felony with a state prison sentence as a punishment and petty larceny is usually limited to county jail time.
See also: grand larceny petty larceny theft

§ 14-51.1. Use of deadly physical force against an intruder.
(a) A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence is justified in using any
degree of force that the occupant reasonably believes is necessary, including deadly force,
against an intruder to prevent a forcible entry into the home or residence or to terminate the
intruder's unlawful entry (i) if the occupant reasonably apprehends that the intruder may kill or
inflict serious bodily harm to the occupant or others in the home or residence, or (ii) if the
occupant reasonably believes that the intruder intends to commit a felony in the home or
residence.

SUBCHAPTER IV. OFFENSES AGAINST THE HABITATION AND OTHER
BUILDINGS.
Article 14.
Burglary and Other Housebreakings.
§ 14-51. First and second degree burglary.
There shall be two degrees in the crime of burglary as defined at the common law. If the
crime be committed in a dwelling house, or in a room used as a sleeping apartment in any
building, and any person is in the actual occupation of any part of said dwelling house or
sleeping apartment at the time of the commission of such crime, it shall be burglary in the first
degree. If such crime be committed in a dwelling house or sleeping apartment not actually
occupied by anyone at the time of the commission of the crime, or if it be committed in any
house within the curtilage of a dwelling house or in any building not a dwelling house, but in
which is a room used as a sleeping apartment and not actually occupied as such at the time of the
commission of the crime, it shall be burglary in the second degree. For the purposes of defining
the crime of burglary, larceny shall be deemed a felony without regard to the value of the
property in question. (1889, c. 434, s. 1; Rev., s. 3331; C.S., s. 4232; 1969, c. 543, s.

So If I am reading the bold section correct, If you break in to a house in the context shown in GS § 14-51
and commit larceny (Larceny defined below with link) without regard to the amount of the property its a felony.
So If I break in to your home in the context shown above, And I make it too your counter and I take some of your Tylenol I have committed a felony.

From What I got taught in Concealed Handgun Class, To clear Up Some Confusion...

What my instructor told us if an intruder is in the process of breaking and entering and you believe he or she is going to cause great bodily harm, serious bodily injury ,sexualy assault, or cause an imminent threat of death to you, in this circumstance you can use deadly force. But before the intruder comes through the threshold wether that be a window or a door and it does not have to be locked, because I remember asking this question. Once the intruder comes through the threshold you cannot use deadly force untill you believe deadly force is necessary to prevent an imminent threat of death, great bodily harm, or sexual assault. And you still cannot be the instigator,or aggressor who voluntarily provoked,entered,or continued the conflict leading to deadly force. And force was not excessive - greater than reasonably needed to overcome the threat posed by a hostile aggressor.

What my instructor told us if an intruder is in the process of breaking and entering and you believe he or she is going to cause great bodily harm, serious bodily injury ,sexualy assault, or cause an imminent threat of death to you, in this circumstance you can use deadly force. But before the intruder comes through the threshold wether that be a window or a door and it does not have to be locked, because I remember asking this question. Once the intruder comes through the threshold you cannot use deadly force untill you believe deadly force is necessary to prevent an imminent threat of death, great bodily harm, or sexual assault. And you still cannot be the instigator,or aggressor who voluntarily provoked,entered,or continued the conflict leading to deadly force. And force was not excessive - greater than reasonably needed to overcome the threat posed by a hostile aggressor.

Blake

Get a copy of Firearms Law Of North Caroline by Thomas Faulk, second or third edition. They are both the same, just a different cover. One place you can get it. http://grnc.org/book_sales.htm

There is a little over eight pages devoted to this question. Starts on page 156.

§ 14-51.1. Use of deadly physical force against an intruder.
(a) A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence is justified in using any
degree of force that the occupant reasonably believes is necessary, including deadly force,
against an intruder to prevent a forcible entry into the home or residence or to terminate the
intruder's unlawful entry (i) if the occupant reasonably apprehends that the intruder may kill or
inflict serious bodily harm to the occupant or others in the home or residence, or (ii) if the
occupant reasonably believes that the intruder intends to commit a felony in the home or
residence.

SUBCHAPTER IV. OFFENSES AGAINST THE HABITATION AND OTHER
BUILDINGS.
Article 14.
Burglary and Other Housebreakings.
§ 14-51. First and second degree burglary.
There shall be two degrees in the crime of burglary as defined at the common law. If the
crime be committed in a dwelling house, or in a room used as a sleeping apartment in any
building, and any person is in the actual occupation of any part of said dwelling house or
sleeping apartment at the time of the commission of such crime, it shall be burglary in the first
degree. If such crime be committed in a dwelling house or sleeping apartment not actually
occupied by anyone at the time of the commission of the crime, or if it be committed in any
house within the curtilage of a dwelling house or in any building not a dwelling house, but in
which is a room used as a sleeping apartment and not actually occupied as such at the time of the
commission of the crime, it shall be burglary in the second degree. For the purposes of defining
the crime of burglary, larceny shall be deemed a felony without regard to the value of the
property in question. (1889, c. 434, s. 1; Rev., s. 3331; C.S., s. 4232; 1969, c. 543, s.

So If I am reading the bold section correct, If you break in to a house in the context shown in GS § 14-51
and commit larceny (Larceny defined below with link) without regard to the amount of the property its a felony.
So If I break in to your home in the context shown above, And I make it too your counter and I take some of your Tylenol I have committed a felony.

I apologize if my grammar is off a bit.

Does NC have "Breaking and Entering" laws?

In Texas, I sat on a jury for a burglary case. Here, Burglary was defined at Breaking and Entering with the intent to commit theft. B&E was entering a premises where you did not have implicit or explicit permissions to enter. In this case, the perp was caught by the owner exiting his garage with a weed-eater - so he obviously had intent to commit theft and he was in a place he didn't have permission. 20 years. (Bang goes the gavel). - (if you think we were too hard on him, his defense was his pastor that he was a good boy and that he was stealing due to a drug problem and he was on parole for a prior burglary - didn't learn the first time. We also had virtually no other choice except for prison - just how long, and his previous sentence was 15 years. We would have much rather sent him to get some kind drug rehabilitation, but that wasn't an option).

Now back to NC. If these laws applied in NC, there's be a problem since you'd need to determine the intent of the perp. You don't know why they are breaking in. I have to "apprehend" what their motive is. If I shoot him as he's entering and he's unarmed, I'm in trouble. But If I wait until he's in my house and and he pulls a gun, he's got the drop on me. And I still have the 'duty to retreat' until I have a clear and present threat. These laws as written are not written well or logically.