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Horton Works to Build on His Rookie Success

Safety Chris Horton was the standout of the Redskins' 10-member 2008 draft class. While most in the group were ineffective as rookies, Horton, the team's final selection of that draft, quickly emerged as an effective member of the secondary

Now, no longer a rookie, Horton has worked hard to improve for the upcoming season, he said, concentrating on his technique. After a surprising start in the NFL, Horton wants to do more for the Redskins, who today will conduct their final organized team activity of this month at Redskins Park.

"It's just a little bit more pressure," Horton said. "I feel I got a fair opportunity to go out there and try to do a lot of stuff, and I'm just going to continue to work hard. I know a little bit more than I knew last year. On the field is easy. That's the easy part. It's what you do off the field in the classroom."

Horton performed well on the field shortly after arriving at the complex as a rookie, coaches said. A seventh-round pick (No. 249 overall) from UCLA, Horton retained instruction well during organized team activities, safeties coach Steve Jackson said last season.

With starting strong safety Reed Doughty sidelined because of flulike symptoms in Week 2, Horton intercepted two passes and recovered a fumble in a 29-24 victory over the New Orleans Saints at FedEx Field. Horton permanently replaced Doughty (he played in only four games and finished the season on injured reserve because of a nerve problem in his back that required surgery) as a starter during a Week 4 victory over the Dallas Cowboys at Texas Stadium.

Horton finished third on the team in tackles, according to the Redskins' statistics, with 76, including 57 unassisted, and led the Redskins with three interceptions. Horton's fast start last season improved his standing on the team, "but I always feel I'm going to have to prove myself everyday. I'm just that kind of guy.

"Once you start letting yourself get too comfortable, your game starts to slip a little. At the same time, coming in and making those plays early, it kind of gave me confidence and really reassured myself that, 'Hey, this is easy. This really is what I've been doing for a long time. There's no difference.'"

Horton is guaranteed nothing. He is expected to compete with Doughty, who appears to have recovered well from surgery, for a first-string assignment. "We're out here making each other work," said Horton, the NFC defensive rookie of the month for September. "We're not going to let each other shortchange one another. It's just one of those things. We've got a lot of respect for each other. It's just a group of guys out there fighting.

"We all know only two guys could start at the safety spot. We're just out there trying to make each other better. We help each other. It's not like on some teams. I've heard guys, on other teams, they won't even help each other. All of us out there, man, we're just like, 'If this is what you need help on, we'll help you out.' It's that comfort level, too. You've got to feel like, 'I tell this guy everything I know because it's going to bring more competition. It's just going to make each other better.'"

I think Kareem Moore will have a breakout year this year. Thought he looked pretty good last year.

Horton came in hot but kinda cooled down as the year went on. I think he's gonna end up being a solid but not spectacular safety, not that that is a disappointment at all. He's a fan favorite and an instant "true Redskin". He's an intelligent guy, too, so its hard to not like him.

But he might also improve. This year he's behind an even better DL, and if Orakpo can play OLB at a high level, then another year in the system for DHall along with Rogers continually improving. On a D like this, good players could turn to great players.

Our D should be fun to watch.

And for everyone complaining about how we didn't improve our O this year, remember last year. We drafted three "pass catchers" and their excuses all year were that they needed more than 1 year in the same system to improve. Hopefully we'll get it this year.

and if that quote from Shelton or whatever his name is, from his twitter posted in the last thread. If that's real....just no. Cut that guy ASAP.

If Albert earns his paycheck and the defense adds a pass rush to it's repertoire, it will put much less pressure on the FS to cover deep routes. If someone like Kareem could step into this role, under much less pressure than Landry was, it would allow Landry to blitz in the SS role. Coming out of college, blitzing was LL's strong suit.

flound, I'd say under 100 million, but Jerry himself, this is the 3rd structure of this type that the company that builds these structures, has seen collapse. I'm thinking that JJ is gonna do some suing himself.....

"The guy who plays for Pittsburgh with the hard name P' something is like that."

Look, I love Horton and his underdog mentality. He hustled and made some plays early on. BUT to compare him to Polamalu after just 1 season (in which he started to fade off towards the end) is pretty ridiculous.

6' nothing Rabach tends to get brutalized by larger defensive tackles. This is evident in the large number of sacks he has allowed and the fumbled exchanges. Jansen is a 6'6" ornery ex-tackle. If he could learn the position and has the desire to start there he could potentially brutalize those same DT's.

Posted by: periculum | May 6, 2009 4:38 PM | Report abuse

?

I don't recall Rabach being a weak link on the line.

I remember one particularly atrocious drive against the Lions (I think) where he got called for a couple penalties back-to-back to take us off the goal-line.

Otherwise I remember our tackle situation being bad, and I remember Randy Thomas getting worked in a handful of games.

A lot of people forget how many tackles at or behind the line of scrimmage Horton had, he had a number of tackle for losses on some of the big backs in the league, MB, Steven jackson. He shown he can blitz well and does have a general feel for where the balls going.
Ive been a big proponent of putting LL back at the line and getting a real FS, but it dosent appear we are going that route. If Horton continues to progress it wont bother me as much having LL deep but Horton will need to continue his tackling at the line.
I would be interested in seeing if Barnes could due any FS work, hes a little to small 6'0-6'1 190ish so might not have the body range but could have the speed to make up. I wouldn't want to take away from him his natural speed and covering guys off the line but if were gonna put him at nickel i wouldn't think a transition from that to FS would be to challenging, he seems rather intelligent.
Again thats just an option we should look at exploring, given that we have four SS and no FS.

"Chris Horton is that type of player that has an unexplained nic for the game. He will always make game deciding plays.

The guy who plays for Pittsburgh with the hard name P' something is like that.

Lavar Arrington was like that and that idiot Greg Williams came here and convinced everybody that Arrington was stupid and could not learn schemes.

Posted by: LarryInClintonM"

Horton isn't on the same level as Polamalu or Lavar, it's not even close. Those guys are consistently gamechangers, Horton probably changed the outcome of 1 game last year. That's not to slight Horton at all, dude was a 7th round pick, but come on.

Say there was a fantasy draft right now with every player in the league available. Polamalu would go in the first round. Lavar at his prime would go in the first round. Horton? No.

The lawsuit will go after the deepest pockets, which is probably Jones, but according to news reports the people who built the facility have had 4-5 others they've put up collapse during inclement weather.

Horton was just a rook last season, and a phenomenal one at that. He should have deserved looks at DROY as well as a pro-bowl alternate, he was that good. I know everybody wants to move Landry back to the SS spot, but given Horton's possible learning curve, it very well may end up being that he becomes an even better player than Landry at that spot (Landry's best moments as a rookie came AFTER Taylor's death, when he was moved to FS). You can't put a value on instincts, and Horton has them to the max.

At the risk of offending T_E by expressing an opintion about moral character, I'm impressed with Horton's.

I guess when you are drafted 249th, you never stop auditioning to prove them wrong.

Again what concerns me most in the defensive backfield is corner depth. Rogers and his occasionally swelling knee, and D. "Not ina contract yer" Hall are about it. Barnes and Smoot and Tryon are next in line and that's worrysome.

He actually didn't fade. He got considerably better towards the end of the season. The flashy, game-changing interceptions weren't there, but the much more consistent positional awareness and fearless attitude put him on a much higher level towards the end of the season. He was perpetually blowing up running plays, often in the backfield, and he was much more consistent on the blitz. There's a reason he was a team leader in tackles despite missing a couple games and not being a starter until week 4 or 5.

"I know everybody wants to move Landry back to the SS spot, but given Horton's possible learning curve, it very well may end up being that he becomes an even better player than Landry at that spot (Landry's best moments as a rookie came AFTER Taylor's death, when he was moved to FS)."

Comparing Landry to Horton isn't even fair IMO. People just don't get to see what he can do in the box...it's easy to forget about him when he's 20 yards down the field. He's stuck being the safety valve because he's the only one athletic enough to do it.

"He was perpetually blowing up running plays, often in the backfield, and he was much more consistent on the blitz. There's a reason he was a team leader in tackles despite missing a couple games and not being a starter until week 4 or 5."

That would be great if he played LB. His pass coverage needs a lot of work. If you honestly think Horton is a better SS than Landry...more power to you.

Yes, by all means. All his coaches, from JoPa on down were idiots who didn't appreciate his freelancing and not knowing the defense.

I don't think he's stupid. Just arrogant enough to think he was above learning "schemes".

Oh, was it "that idiot" Williams fault Arrington didn't read his contract before he signed it and "lost" six million bucks?

Posted by: TheCork | May 7, 2009 9:30 AM |

____________________________________

Cork,

That is a completely false statement. Shottenheimer had no problem with LaVar and neither did M. Lewis or Edwards. As soon as LaVar became a free agent, Cincy was the first place he went to visit to be reunited with Lewis. I've met LaVar many times and he's not a rocket scientist but if everyone is always going to give Jason Campbell the excuse he's had X number of Coordinators in his time here and college well the same can be said for LaVar. At least Campbell had Saunders for 2 years in a row, LaVar didn't have that. But even with that, LaVar played at a Pro Bowl level 3 times!!

Rabach had a very weak season. He wasn't just abused by Rogers. He was also abused by Jay Ratliff, Haloti Ngata, and Casey Hampton (I'm convinced Ratliff was single-handedly awarded a pro-bowl berth because of his domination of Rabach).

All 4 of them are great NTs, but again, we're not in the business of conceding against top level competition.

I hope Rabach can regain his form from 2 years ago. Simply put, last year did not cut it. He struggled. Badly.

So are they just SAYING it's an open competition, like the way some teams say QB is an open competition even when they have their starter firmly in place (which brings up the interesting fact that our mediocre QB apparently HAS to be the starting QB and it is NOT open). Anyway, is there REALLY a fight for the starter position between Doughty and Horton? Even if right now Doughty is a tiny bit better (which he's not), wouldn't you rather start Horton because of the upside that is there?

I wanna see Horton and Moore play a lot, that's two second year players out there. REBUILDING, YOUTH, ETC.

"That would be great if he played LB. His pass coverage needs a lot of work. If you honestly think Horton is a better SS than Landry...more power to you."

(1) The system the Redskins play, the SS is responsible for controlling the box, which Horton did exceptionally well.

(2) Horton's pass coverage did improve vastly over the course of the season, as I iterated with "positional awareness."

(3) I didn't say Horton was better than Landry. I said Horton COULD be better than Landry, and WAS better than Landry was in their respective rookie seasons at the position. Landry, obviously with more experience, would be better right now at SS, but being a rookie, Horton's learning curve could put him ahead of Landry down the road. (And that's not to say Horton is a better overall or will be a better overall player. Landry is as versatile and interchangeable as they come, which is why he's on another level than most safeties.)

'...Jones goes after the insurance company who is insuring the buildings, that keep collapsing...'

You consider a suit against the insurance company, Jones, the municpality that approved and permitted the construction, and hope the expression, "...but for an act of nature..." doesn't block the efforts of the vampire/personal injury lawyer representing you.

My question is, who uses a practice bubble in April/May in Texas?

Are rookies that valuable in Dallas to where they don't want them exposed to 60 degree weather?

Horton is a beast and I can only hope he gets better, I also think with Moore is prime for a good year, he crushes people. I think all of our safeties will be better than last yr. Landry needs an all pro year and I think he will deliver.

i do recall rabach being a weak link on the o-line possibly the weakest link. if you can only remember the lions game w/ back to back penalties on rabach on the same drive, try to remember the cowboys game where the Skins had 2 TD's taken away b/c of rabach penalties, he just gets blown into the backfield on every play

even against the ravens, he got all excited and tried to do too much and ended up throwing portis to the ground causing the fumble, where reed picked it up and housed it.

hopefully kendall will get a shot a center, where's he played before, maybe jansen can work in there or the rookie out of maryland williams

i can't wait to watch the Skins D this yr, you add Haynesworth and Orakpo to this D, great stuff upcoming this fall

that's darn cheap, and he doesn't seem like the kinda guy that'll want to restructure halfway through his contract. I hope we keep him, but if he keeps improving he'll be wanting a big payday, which will likely be deserved.

I look forward to seeing a lot of the cobra package with Dirty 30 up at the line doing more blitzing on the same side as Orakapo and Horton patrolling the middle looking to knock some heads off with Kareem playing center field. I think that will be our best defense package all year and it will hopefully lead to some big plays and a short field for our questionable offense, they will need all the help they can get.

and yes, there are a bunch of Skins fans down here in the Carolinas. Charleston, SC has a HUGE amount of Skins fans, but a lot of 'em came down from Virginia, namely the Alexandria area. They even got like two or three bars that are strictly Skins on Sundays, which is pretty darn cool. I lived in Charleston for awhile and it was great being around so many Skins fans.

psps: "Rabach had a very weak season. He wasn't just abused by Rogers. He was also abused by Jay Ratliff, Haloti Ngata, and Casey Hampton (I'm convinced Ratliff was single-handedly awarded a pro-bowl berth because of his domination of Rabach).All 4 of them are great NTs, but again, we're not in the business of conceding against top level competition."

Well, if you find someone better to replace Rabach, please replace him. But until you do, why not worry about the more obvious weaknesses elsewhere?

One thing to remember: size isn't the main prerequisite for centers. For every big one, there's a successful smaller one.

Rabach weighs in at 296. The three centers on the AFC Pro Bowl roster last season were Kevin Mawae (289), Nick Mangold (300), and Casey Wiegmann (285). All of them struggle if asked to single-block a guy like Ngota or Hampton.

We have to start thinking about who will be our punt returner and kickoff return guys. I think El is best suited for a receiver and Cartwright's speed in questionable. I didn't care for the performance of either of them at those positions.

Horton is just a poor man's Landry who can't run fast enough to play FS. Not a knock on Horton...Landry is that talented. People forget that when he's 20 yards downfield, quietly taking away the deepball.

Landry was a top 10 pick because of his athleticism and he's ability to make game changing plays in the box and on the blitz.

I don't usually knock JLC but it's one Redskin player he has an affinity for and that's Reed Doughty. Doughty is a good story with his kid and all, but he is not that good of a football player at this level.

Horton is plain and simple a football player. he understands the game and maximizes what he is capable of. he isn't the best, but he is solid.

What's ineffective is, you inserting your unsubstantiated opinion in the second line of a success story.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | May 7, 2009 9:47 AM

So it's a good draft if we get a handful of "effective" plays from nine players over 16 games? Dude your argument is ineffective. I'm not saying no one we drafted last year will ever be any good. But with the exception of Horton, they did next to nothing last year.

psps: " I didn't say Horton was better than Landry. I said Horton COULD be better than Landry, and WAS better than Landry was in their respective rookie seasons at the position. Landry, obviously with more experience, would be better right now at SS, but being a rookie, Horton's learning curve could put him ahead of Landry down the road. (And that's not to say Horton is a better overall or will be a better overall player. Landry is as versatile and interchangeable as they come, which is why he's on another level than most safeties.)"

I'd like to think this will come to pass --that Chris Horton will ultimately be a better safety than Laron Landry -- but it's a subjective judgment on your part, so suffice to say I sure don't see it when I look at Horton. I see a guy who plays well going forward and struggles otherwise.

"Rabach weighs in at 296. The three centers on the AFC Pro Bowl roster last season were Kevin Mawae (289), Nick Mangold (300), and Casey Wiegmann (285). All of them struggle if asked to single-block a guy like Ngota or Hampton.

Posted by: Samson151"

I never said anything about size. And I never said anything about replacing him. I said he played very weak last season, and I hope returns to form from 2 years ago.

Regardless, it wasn't just brute strength that beat him (which is attributed to Ngata, Hampton, and Rogers). Jay Ratliff is an unconventional NT, playing at a lot leaner weight than most at his position (6'4, 302 lbs). He consistently beat Rabach off the snap with quickness and guile. Twice he drew holding penalties on stretch plays where he beat Rabach cleanly (once negating a TD), and twice he beat Rabach for sacks, by rushing around, not through him.

He did struggle last season. The skins don't have the ammo to provide much of an upgrade, so we simply have to hope that he returns to his 2007 form (which was quite good).

WHY THE HELL ARE WE SIGNING THESE SORRY SCRUBS OFF THE STREET? WHY IS SNYDERRATO NOT CONCERNED WITH SIGNING SOME REAL OFFENSIVE LINEMEN INSTEAD OF WORRYING ABOUT MARKETING THE TEAM WITH BIG NAME QB, RB, WR???? HIRE A GM YOU IDIOTS!!!

thetruth: "Anyway, is there REALLY a fight for the starter position between Doughty and Horton? Even if right now Doughty is a tiny bit better (which he's not), wouldn't you rather start Horton because of the upside that is there?"

It's a fair question, and not easy to answer. Doughty played very well after Sean Taylor went down -- well enough that they considered him the starter going into last season. When he got hurt, Horton surprised everybody. Now he's the starter, I guess, at least going into camp.

That's how quickly things can turn around at a position that was considered a major weakness not so long ago.

Neither one's a perfect player. I don't know if either is as good as Michael Johnson, the 2007 7th rounder who last season started ahead of Kenny Phillips for the Giants.

I guess the simplest thing to say would be that if Horton or Doughty had the complete confidence of the coaches, they'd say so.

alright confora, second line, the 1 about the REST of the rookies being ineffective.

Is every single rookie supposed to be an immediate starter????

So, Thomas' reverse for a TD wasn't effective, or his 2 outstanding ST plays against Cleveland in the 4th Q? When Kareem Moore knocked the S out of Chad Johnson, WAS THAT INEFFECTIVE??

Not a single snap that Fred Davis took was effective at all? Zero good blocks? Tryon didn't play gunner?

Which team had 9 effective rookies last year, or any year?

What's ineffective is, you inserting your unsubstantiated opinion in the second line of a success story.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | May 7, 2009 9:47 AM

This is an interesting stance. You are choosing to defend a rookie class where 90% of the class made zero contributions. Although it is rare that the skins actually had 10 picks, it is even stranger that all 10 picks made the squad. Not even the best GM's go 10 for 10 and have all of their draft picks make the team. This is an example nepotism from vin and dan. The most disappointing comment was calling Tyron anything but terrible. So a year later I see DT, MK, FD, KM, CR, & CH making the 53 man roster. All in all not bad but point to one guy in that bunch and tell without a doubt if you could redo the draft you would take em again.

I dont understand why people want Landry to move back to SS. Why? So he can be in the box more and blitz? QB pressure from the safety spot is nice every now and then but its not something Im too concerned about. I want my safeties (both F AND S) making plays in the secondary to defend the pass and also being strong in run support. I think Landry's speed and athleticism is best used at the FS spot.

As for Horton, I think the talk of a drop off in his play in exaggerated. He didnt make as many plays but its not like he was a liability. We dont need a superstar at every position. Just guys that get to where they are suppose to be and make tackles. By doing this he will also create turnovers from time to time. As long as he can continue to improve, even modestly, the safety spot is not a position of real concern. Moore and Doughty provide quality depth and are both capable players should Horton's play fall off.

I feel just the reverse. MOORE showed flashes, but no consistancy. HORTON was brilliant, then hurt, or I believe he would have excelled all year. MOORE will be better this year, and he has to step it up. HORTON will just keep bringin' it year after year.

"I dont understand why people want Landry to move back to SS. Why? So he can be in the box more and blitz?"

Um, yea. It's nice when game-changers get the chance to make game-changing plays.

Did you see Landry play at LSU? Did you see him blitz? That is why the Skins picked him in the top 10 to play alongside ST21. The dude makes game-changing plays when he's in the box.

Horton can make plays, but not to the extent Landry can.

So yes, I would like Landry in the box as much as possible. It's what he was drafted to do. Having him at FS certainly doesn't hurt the team. Having him at SS with a competent FS would take the D to another level.

"Landry was a top 10 pick because of his athleticism and he's ability to make game changing plays in the box and on the blitz."

I agree.

Except he didn't do it his rookie year. He didn't have the same instincts that Horton had, and arguably, still doesn't. In his rookie season, Landry was almost always a step slow on the blitz, and almost always a step slow to read the play. We KNOW he has the athleticism to dominate, perhaps even be the best in the league. But, for one reason or another, he's been hit or miss on his reads. Some games, like against Seattle his rookie season, he was on point nearly the entire game. Anticipated, read the QB, and attacked the ball. Other times, he arrives a split-second too late, or misjudges the ball in the air, sometimes even arriving a split-second too early. His athleticism and ability still makes him one of the league's best, but he hasn't hit that final gear yet.

And look, this isn't a knock on Landry so much as a heap of praise on Horton. Horton's a guy that maximizes his talents. He's never hesitant, always decisive, attacks with reckless abandon. The result is that he almost never gets beat with what he decides to do. He does, however, get beat from time to time by making an incorrect read (like Witten's TD in the 1st Dallas game), which improved over the course of the season. That I can live with, right now, considering he should only get better learning the game after his rookie year.

Never underestimate the value of instincts. Horton has that '6th sense' when playing the game, similar to a guy like London Fletcher, who also isn't the most physically gifted linebacker.

"WHY THE HELL ARE WE SIGNING THESE SORRY SCRUBS OFF THE STREET? WHY IS SNYDERRATO NOT CONCERNED WITH SIGNING SOME REAL OFFENSIVE LINEMEN INSTEAD OF WORRYING ABOUT MARKETING THE TEAM WITH BIG NAME QB, RB, WR???? HIRE A GM YOU IDIOTS!!!

Posted by: BarackObama |"

the thing is, that post contradicts itself, and I saw you post this in the last thread.

1) We sign scrubs off the street.

2) Sign "real" offensive linemen. While offensive linemen aren't really big names, I bet the guys you had in mind are bigger names in the football community than any of the guys we've signed.

3) If we're signing "scrubs off the street", then I don't think we're signing "big name QB, WR, and RB" as you described.

4 Basically we don't sign bigger names and you're mad about it, but we sign big names and you're mad about it.

Why are people making the comparison between Horton and Polamalu. We had no pass rush at all whereas in Pittsburgh, with that pass rush all you have to do is jump every route because the qb has no time. I actually saw Polamalu get burned by many receivers on the few plays where the opposing qb got some time. Hell does anyone remember when Ryan Clark played for the Skinz? He was okay but got beat a lot. He looks great playing for the Steelers. This year we may have the best secondary in the league if we get the pass rush we all enivision. Our offense will need the short field if a certain someone doesn't step up his game. Not a knock on JC. iwant him to do well.

diesel: "This is an interesting stance. You are choosing to defend a rookie class where 90% of the class made zero contributions. Although it is rare that the skins actually had 10 picks, it is even stranger that all 10 picks made the squad. Not even the best GM's go 10 for 10 and have all of their draft picks make the team. This is an example nepotism from vin and dan."

That got my attention because I wondered if it was true. How rare is it for all a team's draft picks to make the team as rookies?

I looked at Arizona and Pittsburgh -- the two Super Bowl clubs. All the Cards picks made the team except a linebacker who wound up with Cincinnati. Same with the Steelers -- only one didn't make it.

Lots of the players didn't contribute, of course -- they're rookies. So I thought I'd check the weakest team, the Lions. All those picks made the team except one, who caught on briefly with Carolina.

So based on that admittedly small sample, seems like it's more unusual for a draft pick NOT to make the team as a rook.

Agreed, they should have booted Durant Brooks, however -- at the end of camp.

"Landry was almost always a step slow on the blitz, and almost always a step slow to read the play."

Really? Is that why he had half a sack more than Horton is rookie year? While not playing in the Cobra package and moving to FS for week 10?

Your subjective criticism of Landry is opposed to mine of Horton. Agree to disagree. Horton is vastly overrated IMO, but I still love the guy. I just want him used in the Cobra, while letting Laron finally be Laron.

I am not suggesting he is a long term answer but does anybody else out there think they should take a look at Levi Jones? How could it hurt?

Posted by: blackandred777

I don't think Levi will be coming here for a min. contract particularly since it's rumored that both the Seahawks and Bills are interested in him. I also don't think the skins have the cap room to offer up anything more than a min. contract.

"Um, yea. It's nice when game-changers get the chance to make game-changing plays.

Did you see Landry play at LSU? Did you see him blitz? That is why the Skins picked him in the top 10 to play alongside ST21. The dude makes game-changing plays when he's in the box.

Horton can make plays, but not to the extent Landry can.

So yes, I would like Landry in the box as much as possible. It's what he was drafted to do. Having him at FS certainly doesn't hurt the team. Having him at SS with a competent FS would take the D to another level."

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who

Actually, I saw Landry play quite a bit at LSU. He played FS there and is second all time in passes defended. Meaning he was making a lot of plays in the secondary as well as in the box.

The good thing about Landry is that he has the physical tools to play either safety spot. I hate the fact that we arent able to see how he and ST21 would have grown together because they are both superior athletes with great versatility.

But anyways, I see what you are saying but I think Landry can make plays from the FS spot as well. We saw less of the GW style drop the FS 30 yards back last year and think we will see even less this season.

If Fat Al does what he was brought here to do and Orakpo or whoever can create more pressure then you will see everybody in the secondary making more plays. Maybe even Rogers will realize that he has hands.

More pressure fromn the front 7 will also allow Blache to use Landry in a variety of ways. In the end I really dont think it matters what the lable is because the safety spot is evolving. You have to be able to make plays at both free and strong. Ed Reed seems to make a lot of plays from the FS spot. And Palomalu and Bob Sanders both kind of play hybrid safeties.

And what do all 3 of those guys have in common? A front 7 that creates a lot of pressure. Thats the key regardless of which safety spot Laron is labeled.

Agreed...But with a 3 and out offense the Defense will be dead on their feet by late 3rd quarter (like last year). Snyder commmitted 200 Mil to the Defense this offseason (FA signings and draft picks) and pretty much nothing to the Offense, including no renewed contracts. Just an OLine of fat waived or cut castoffs and undrafted locals.
Makes zero sense unless he is keeping the Offense slate clean for a new Offensive minded HC next year..
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

On another note.... who's line will compete with this one

Left DE - Haynesworth, Wynn

3 Technique DT - Griffin, Gholston

5 Technique DT - Daniels, Montgomery

Right DE - Orakpo, Carter

I think our DB's will shine this year. Hell you can bring back M Washington with 2 lost steps. The back 7 should be fine.

"WHY THE HELL ARE WE SIGNING THESE SORRY SCRUBS OFF THE STREET? WHY IS SNYDERRATO NOT CONCERNED WITH SIGNING SOME REAL OFFENSIVE LINEMEN INSTEAD OF WORRYING ABOUT MARKETING THE TEAM WITH BIG NAME QB, RB, WR???? HIRE A GM YOU IDIOTS!!!

Posted by: BarackObama |"

the thing is, that post contradicts itself, and I saw you post this in the last thread.

1) We sign scrubs off the street.

2) Sign "real" offensive linemen. While offensive linemen aren't really big names, I bet the guys you had in mind are bigger names in the football community than any of the guys we've signed.

3) If we're signing "scrubs off the street", then I don't think we're signing "big name QB, WR, and RB" as you described.

4 Basically we don't sign bigger names and you're mad about it, but we sign big names and you're mad about it.

I'm all for fair criticism of the front office, but come on...

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 7, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse

I DON'T THINK I WAS CLEAR. WE SIGN BIG NAMES AND DRAFT HIGH CERTAIN MORE GLAMOROUS POSITIONS LIKE WR, QB, RB,DE. BUT WHEN IT COMES TO THE TRENCHES WHERE GAMES ARE WON, (OFFENSIVE LINE AND DEFENSIVE LINES) WE ARE SIGNING 450LB GUYS WHO HAVE BEEN OUT OF THE LEAGUE FOR 3 YEARS.

"Not if it meant keeping Frost -- at the beginning of the season. Green Bay picked up both Frost and Brooks. Frost is gone, Brooks is still on their roster. Brooks will be a good NFL punter.Posted by: talent_evaluator"

I hope he will be -- he sure has a big leg. But we went into camp last season with two punters who weren't good enough.

Dude... no one will buy Offensive Linemen jerseys... Get your priorities straight.
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I DON'T THINK I WAS CLEAR. WE SIGN BIG NAMES AND DRAFT HIGH CERTAIN MORE GLAMOROUS POSITIONS LIKE WR, QB, RB,DE. BUT WHEN IT COMES TO THE TRENCHES WHERE GAMES ARE WON, (OFFENSIVE LINE AND DEFENSIVE LINES) WE ARE SIGNING 450LB GUYS WHO HAVE BEEN OUT OF THE LEAGUE FOR 3 YEARS.

"More pressure fromn the front 7 will also allow Blache to use Landry in a variety of ways. In the end I really dont think it matters what the lable is because the safety spot is evolving. You have to be able to make plays at both free and strong. Ed Reed seems to make a lot of plays from the FS spot. And Palomalu and Bob Sanders both kind of play hybrid safeties."

If Haynesworth earns his money it will make the deepball hard to come by against this defense. Thus making the FS position (and all other DB positions) easier to handle. All I want is Landry being used in a way that takes advantage of his playmaking skills. Unlike some, I think he's an excellent blitzer and would provide game-changing plays if given the chance. Hopefully he'll get those chances.

"Really? Is that why he had half a sack more than Horton is rookie year? While not playing in the Cobra package and moving to FS for week 10?

Your subjective criticism of Landry is opposed to mine of Horton. Agree to disagree. Horton is vastly overrated IMO, but I still love the guy. I just want him used in the Cobra, while letting Laron finally be Laron.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who"

Fair enough, agree to disagree. Landry started 16 games his rookie year (10 at SS), Horton started 10 total (all at SS).

And I wouldn't use stats to attempt to prove your point, considering your argument is that Landry is more of a "game-changer" than Horton.

Horton plays great as a prowler close to the line of scrimmage but he can be beat deep. I think Blache was very careful not to put him in many packages that required him to get deep. As a psuedo linebacker in the Cobra packages he's perfect. The Redskins are still minus that free safety that can free up Landry to play strong safety. Is Kareem Moore the guy? Dunno, but they brought in another undrafted free agent safety as insurance. My money is on Moore, with Horton in the Cobra packages, Landry at strong safety and someone other than Doughty sticking around as a backup/special teamer. Doughty never impressed me, and though he's a nice guy - a smart guy, I just don't think he has NFL speed.

I'm kind of having high hopes for the CB from Maryland (name already forgotten, very boring name) b/c of the combination of speed, height, and hits that provoke vomit ... hopefully competing with Moore for the nickel position (which sometimes is a nickel safety, sometimes a corner ... maybe only the nickel corner b/c he looks skinny).

Sween - Yoder's time is fading fast. He's up there in age and I seems JZ is trying to build a more finesse type team. And yoder's primary responsibility is blocking with the occassional TD catch (similar to Vrabel)....

THose of you saying Kareem Moore over The Predator - Horton not only earned a starting spot but held onto it easily and performed well. Sure he leveled off - most rookies do - late in the season. But he led the team in picks and was excellent in run support. He seems to have equal physical skills to those of Moore, better instincts and far more experience. I don't see him losing the starting job, but may the best man win. I love his attitude.

OK on Yoder's age (31), but he's a touchdown machine because of his invisibility and he IS a solid special teams tackler and blocker. Davis doesn't have the bulk to replace Yoder (and seems more like a hybrid TE-WR ... who seems to forget his routes), so I hope the new TE draft pick is heavier.

I also agree that last year's draft was a success by the 'Skins standards. If you have 10 picks that in itself is a success. I can say the same about this year, although we had fewer (am i correct?) picks. Most of these picks will not work out but hopefully after another couple of drafts like this our FO will learn to not just draft but alos draft well.

Why the heck would you move Landry closer to the line simply to get the better athlete closer to the ball? The reason Landry is FS is the same reason Taylor was FS - the ability to take away the deep ball ON BOTH SIDES OF THE FIELD WITH ONE GUY.

This is an interesting stance. You are choosing to defend a rookie class where 90% of the class made zero contributions. Although it is rare that the skins actually had 10 picks, it is even stranger that all 10 picks made the squad. Not even the best GM's go 10 for 10 and have all of their draft picks make the team. This is an example nepotism from vin and dan. The most disappointing comment was calling Tyron anything but terrible. So a year later I see DT, MK, FD, KM, CR, & CH making the 53 man roster. All in all not bad but point to one guy in that bunch and tell without a doubt if you could redo the draft you would take em again.

Posted by: Diesel44

point to 95% of any draft, any year, and tell me there wasn't a better player available at any pick.

Define ZERO contribution. Is 1 TD zero contribution. If you answer yes, you do not understand zero or contribution.

How many rookies started and made 'contributions' in the NFL.

It's an article about Horton, and right away JLaC throws a cheap shot at 9 guys......punk move

"Why the heck would you move Landry closer to the line simply to get the better athlete closer to the ball? The reason Landry is FS is the same reason Taylor was FS - the ability to take away the deep ball ON BOTH SIDES OF THE FIELD WITH ONE GUY."

Because he's a good blitzer and a playmaker. They drafted him to complement ST21, not to be exactly like him.

I miss Area 51. We had it all set up, ST21 to cover deep and punish, Dirty30 to be near the line and punish. Being the same age as ST21 I feel that our generation lost out on watching a hall of famer for 15 yrs, the generation before had Darrell and Art and loads of other great players, this generation had our great taken away after only 3 1/2 seasons, but that's life

but now is the present and i like our safety situation, nature buckled under Area 51, nature couldn't handle it

but let it be known, as much as i like their talent, they all need to get better, im want super bowls, not just playoffs

Chris Horton reminds me a LOT of Alvin Walton, another safety for the Redskins that worked his tail off and was always 100% prepared to play the game. He hit hard and always seemed to come up with a big play or two each season that decided the outcome of a game, either fumble, sack or interception.

The Redskins don't have enough players like Chris, hardworking overachievers that are a real bargain contract wise under the salary cap.

Agree to disagree...Only the future will tell if the crowning jewels DT, MK, & FD of the 2008 draft develop and contribute. Granted we are talking about about the rookie year for these guys and I'm sure when vinny was "sticking to his board on draft day" he was hoping for more than 1 combined TD. Everybody in hindsight is a HOF GM, I am not rooting against these guys I'm hoping they all have breakout years.

10 picks made the team because it was Vinny's first full control Draft and he also controlled who was cut at the end of preseason. Not Zorn. Recall Derrick Frost's comments on who was in charge when he was cut (irghtfully or not).. It was an inside look at what was really going on at Redskins Park.
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This is an interesting stance. You are choosing to defend a rookie class where 90% of the class made zero contributions. Although it is rare that the skins actually had 10 picks, it is even stranger that all 10 picks made the squad. Not even the best GM's go 10 for 10 and have all of their draft picks make the team. This is an example nepotism from vin and dan. The most disappointing comment was calling Tyron anything but terrible. So a year later I see DT, MK, FD, KM, CR, & CH making the 53 man roster. All in all not bad but point to one guy in that bunch and tell without a doubt if you could redo the draft you would take em again.

Posted by: Diesel44

point to 95% of any draft, any year, and tell me there wasn't a better player available at any pick.

Define ZERO contribution. Is 1 TD zero contribution. If you answer yes, you do not understand zero or contribution.

How many rookies started and made 'contributions' in the NFL.

It's an article about Horton, and right away JLaC throws a cheap shot at 9 guys......punk move

"Dude, plans change. There is no one on the roster or available not on the roster who can provide the same thing LL can at FS."

I never said move him without having someone who could man the FS spot. Which, if Albert earns his money, won't be as tough a position as in the past. So I wouldn't rule out Kareem Moore as quickly as you do. Just give LL some runs at the QB and chances in the box more. Doesn't have to be every play.

Let the speculation begin...got this in a link from PFT to a San Diego paper:

Shawne Merriman's contract expires after the 2009 season and there's already been talk that he'll get big free-agent money elsewhere, perhaps from the Washington Redskins. He grew up near Washington and played at Maryland. Or maybe the Chargers will make him their franchise player in 2010 and pay him a huge salary for one season.

Merriman has heard all the scenarios, and laughs about the one involving the Redskins.

"All that stuff to me is garbage," he said. "Whatever happens is going to happen. If that's the case, I'm going to make the best of it, period."

10 picks made the team because it was Vinny's first full control Draft and he also controlled who was cut at the end of preseason. Not Zorn. Recall Derrick Frost's comments on who was in charge when he was cut (irghtfully or not).. It was an inside look at what was really going on at Redskins Park.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 7, 2009 12:16 PM"

hindsight....

also, is it true about Manny? If so, jesus christ. Baseball is getting disgusting. I think the next straw would be Chipper for me.

I heard someone on the radio saying the only person that would surprise 'em now would be Cal Ripken Jr.

As a lawyer in Texas, I would be suprised if J Jones had any liability. Texas law requires premises owner to have actual or constructive knowledge of defective condition. The manufacturer on the other hand, just hand over the keys to the bldg....

whoa.... And Theo almost considered taking Manny back (rumor). Hope there is no evidence of Manny taking the juice in the 04 or 07 series wins..
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Manny Ramirez has tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs and will be suspended 50 games starting today, The Times has learned

barackobama: "BUT WHEN IT COMES TO THE TRENCHES WHERE GAMES ARE WON, (OFFENSIVE LINE AND DEFENSIVE LINES) WE ARE SIGNING 450LB GUYS WHO HAVE BEEN OUT OF THE LEAGUE FOR 3 YEARS."

I'm not sure you're being entirely fair, Mr. President. Some of the other teams in the league -- I'm thinking of the Ravens at the moment -- spend high picks on interior linemen, but often lose them after a few years because they refuse to pay them.

The Skins apparently like to sign veterans, and many of those (if you can believe the media) are quite happy to come to Washington -- because the Skins pay better.

Take Jason Brown, the Ravens talented 26 year old center who left this season for a big paycheck in St. Louis. Allegedly, Newsome let him go because he thought Brown wanted too much money (a legit complaint, knowing NFL players). But then he looked at the available replacements and wound up paying almost as much for a soon-to-be-33 year old former All-Pro who was leaving the Vikings because they refused to pay him that much.

Neither one, by the way, was a high draft choice. Birk was a sixth rounder, Brown I believe a 4th.

Somebody might see Michael Oher as a value at 23, and Peria Jerry (NT) at 24, but would either have been a better pick than Orakpo at 13?

" New England Patriots third-round draft pick Tyrone McKenzie will miss the 2009 season with a torn ligament in his right knee.

The outside linebacker from South Florida tore his anterior cruciate ligament during rookie minicamp on Saturday and will be sidelined for the year, a person familiar with the injury said Wednesday night on condition of anonymity because the team did not make an announcement.

McKenzie was hurt when he and a running back made contact during a pass coverage drill. He fell and grabbed his right knee, but walked off the field on his own. He did not return for the second session of the day.

The Patriots drafted McKenzie with their second pick of the third round, 97th overall.

With the trade of longtime starter Mike Vrabel to Kansas City in February, the Patriots needed depth at outside linebacker. Adalius Thomas started last year before being injured. Pierre Woods took over for him, then was sidelined himself.

McKenzie started his college career in 2004 as a backup at Michigan State, then transferred to Iowa State, where he started in 2006 after sitting out a year as required by the NCAA. He transferred to South Florida, where he started 24 of his 26 games and led the team in tackles in each of his two seasons."

he was the OLB I wanted out of South Florida, studly player. Sucks for him and the Pats.

April 2010 Redskins select QB Tim Tebow. Why? Because he's a great QB? Not a chance. Marketing potential? Definitely. The dude already has a line of thong undies named for him. I can so see Lil Danny with a pair draped over his head.

Let the speculation begin...got this in a link from PFT to a San Diego paper:

Shawne Merriman's contract expires after the 2009 season and there's already been talk that he'll get big free-agent money elsewhere, perhaps from the Washington Redskins. He grew up near Washington and played at Maryland. Or maybe the Chargers will make him their franchise player in 2010 and pay him a huge salary for one season.

Merriman has heard all the scenarios, and laughs about the one involving the Redskins.

"All that stuff to me is garbage," he said. "Whatever happens is going to happen. If that's the case, I'm going to make the best of it, period."

Posted by: brownwood26 | May 7, 2009 12:20 PM

Yeah...Had the chance to draft him instead of Carlos. Carlos 9th pick, Ware 11th, Merriman 12th. Still stunned by that pick because Merriman played in our backyard. Granted No Hands is a decent player but other two guys are studs. I'm not second guessing here because I was disappointed in 20005 when we drafted Carlos and then JC. I can remember it like it was yesterday, just like we sent a league wide fax stating our intentions to draft JC17 with the 25th pick...

Let the speculation begin...got this in a link from PFT to a San Diego paper:

Shawne Merriman's contract expires after the 2009 season and there's already been talk that he'll get big free-agent money elsewhere, perhaps from the Washington Redskins. He grew up near Washington and played at Maryland. Or maybe the Chargers will make him their franchise player in 2010 and pay him a huge salary for one season.

Merriman has heard all the scenarios, and laughs about the one involving the Redskins.

"All that stuff to me is garbage," he said. "Whatever happens is going to happen. If that's the case, I'm going to make the best of it, period."

Posted by: brownwood26 | May 7, 2009 12:20 PM

Yeah...Had the chance to draft him instead of Carlos. Carlos 9th pick, Ware 11th, Merriman 12th. Still stunned by that pick because Merriman played in our backyard. Granted No Hands is a decent player but other two guys are studs. I'm not second guessing here because I was disappointed in 20005 when we drafted Carlos and then JC. I can remember it like it was yesterday, just like we sent a league wide fax stating our intentions to draft JC17 with the 25th pick...

Big Papi is alot smarter than Manny. Did he do it in the past?? Who knows.. It wasnt MLB illegal until 2003 or 04?
Wonder what the Hall of fame implications will be? He was a lock.. We need a separate HOF juice wing with the Sammy Sosas, Manny's, McGuires..etc.
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Jeter would probably take the cake for me. I can't say I was surprised to hear Manny's name at all. Is Big Papi next?

4th, you're better than this. If you define success by the number of draft picks that make the team, then all a GM (or in our case a "GM")has to do is refuse to cut any of his draft picks.

Posted by: mack1 | May 7, 2009 12:24 PM

All I am saying basically is, you got 10 picks that made the roster. The probability of the number of picks doing well will be greater. 4 or 5 will be a sucess. If we only had 4 picks, then we could prob only count on 1 or 2.

But judjment day hasn't come yet. Not after one season. That is my issue.

1st, you draft the players. Then, you let them develop. NOT a one year process......

Y-l-h-w, the defense that Grilliams built initially didn't rely on traditionally free and strong safeties, just two safeties. Sometimes Clark would blitz, sometimes Sean Taylor. I think that, with Landry being new to the game and to avoid getting burned deep, they didn't have the freedom to let Sean Taylor blitz from the free safety position -- they needed to clamp down on top. With a better line and more reliable corners (and frankly, weakness in the LB position), I'd imagine that they could blur the distinction btwn the free safety/strong safety spots a little more, depending on the progress at the strong safety position ... which means they could send in Landry again. From his college "greatest hits," some of Landry's most beautiful lumber deliveries happened when he was torpedoing in from like 10 yards off the line.

you're right... the rumor was very unsubstantiated and I now remember the "cancer" comments about Manny in the clubhouse..
should of remembered... and here I am sitting on a pier with a laptop... in gloucester, ma.. too much time at the Crow's Nest..
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skins, Theo did EVERYTHING in his power to get rid of Manny. Put him on irrevecable waivers, tried to trade him couple times...theo wanted NOTHING to do with him....

Zorn to start break by helping good cause By David Elfin on May 7, 2009

Redskins 360

Jim Zorn will celebrate the end of OTAs and the start of a 3-week break by joining his old boss, former Seahawks coach Mike Holmgren, and their wives at FedEx Field tonight.

Holmgren's wife Kathy and daughter Calla are heading to Uganda as volunteers with the group Medical Teams International to provide medical assistance to people who have been forced from their homes by the ongoing fighting in neighboring Congo and are now in displaced persons camps. More than 40,000 people a month have died in the conflict, about half of them children.

The Zorns and Holmgrens have been strong supporters of Medical Teams International for years. Kathy, a nurse in Seattle, and Calla, a doctor in Salt Lake City, cared for war survivors in Congo instead of attending the Seahawks' Super Bowl against Pittsburgh in February 2006.

Tonight's event, which begins at 6 p.m. in the Owner’s Club of FedExField, will introduce Medical Teams International to the Washington area. Medical Teams International is a non-profit organization that has shipped more than $1.2 billion in antibiotics, surgical kits and lifesaving medicines to care for 35 million people in 100 countries around the world since 1979. More than 2,000 volunteers meet the needs of people worldwide each year.

sween, the more flexibility the better. Area 51 would have gone down as the best safety duo in the history of the league. You brought up Landry's college highlights, which I'm sure we all watched right after he was drafted. That's what I would like to see more of, the guy can flat out go-get-it when he has the green light.

Moe, that's why I mentioned him. I never have or ever will accuse Jeter of cheating. He's one of only a handful of guys that would truly surprise me...and I would probably only go to triple-a games after that.

I said this last night zornskins and I'll briefly state it again. Gibbs had some less than stellar characters on some of his squads too.

Posted by: scampbell1975

and I'll repeat too. Gibbs could manage a few outliers because he had the respect of the players. Partly because he understands how to inspire people and partly because he has that thing in Canton and 3 Lombardis.

As Dan Quayle is no Jack Kennedy, Jim Zorn is no Joe Gibbs.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 6, 2009 11:09 PM

And how would you know. Do you remember Gibbs first year? He wasn't that good. Zorn has been here 1 year.

Posted by: scampbell1975

Because Gibbs went 0-5, then went 8-3 to finish. Zorn went 2-6 to finish and had his top player openly curse him late in the year.

Gibbs and Theismann rethought how to use the QB effectively and were totally on the same page. Campbell has been on the block, twice, in favor of Cutler and then Sanchez.

"...it's almost a given. I say 'better management' of the useage. This hypocritical villification is pointless."

Baseball is a sport that's built on records. Everyone who's a fan had someone tell them Babe Ruth had 714 HR...or Hammerin' Hank had 744 at some point. I think people take the news of steroids in baseball harder, because it's a slap in the face of the legends that helped us fall in love with the game.

Manny's suspension does not necessarily mean he was juicing. There are lots of supplements and drugs, that are not steroids that will get you suspended. JC Romero from the Phillies is a perfect example. Lets find out what he tested for before we accuse him of juicing or being a cheat.

The thing about Landry is his speed. Remember when he beat Portis last year? Check out this one, right around 1:50, he makes an open field tackle on the run, beating a receiver in stride, who at the time, is NOT changing direction. Landry just launches on the guy and they are both already running. The clip shows it a few more times from different angles.

Also, at the beginning of that youtube, the announcer identifies Landry as the best free safety in college football. My sense is that, when they picked him, the plan was still to go with interchangeable safeties, but they needed to get him started on something first, and Sean Taylor had more game speed playing time under his belt, so they game planned for FS/SS rather then interchangeability. Landry started much earlier than Taylor during their respective rookie years.

In other news it was reported that Jessica Alba is smoking hot...I would say that the majority of pro athletes have cheated. Sucks when a smuck like Jose Canseco is finally right and nobody believed him.

king, he's not appealing the suspension...if he wasn't guilty don't you think he'd be screaming about this??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 7, 2009 12:59 PM
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Manny claims he took a prescribed medicine from a Doctor. If true, why not appeal? Unless it was a Dominican roid doctor??

Who cares if he was out of position. He was able to make plays that Doughty wasnt. I think he plays hard and is a good backup/special teamer, but I think they are only paying him lip service by telling him he has a shot to start.

Yeah...Had the chance to draft him instead of Carlos. Carlos 9th pick, Ware 11th, Merriman 12th. Still stunned by that pick because Merriman played in our backyard. Granted No Hands is a decent player but other two guys are studs. I'm not second guessing here because I was disappointed in 20005 when we drafted Carlos and then JC. I can remember it like it was yesterday, just like we sent a league wide fax stating our intentions to draft JC17 with the 25th pick...

Posted by: Diesel44 | May 7, 2009 12:31 PM

Look on the bright side. Alex Smith, PacMan Jones, and Troy Williamson went ahead of Carlos. Mike Williams went right after.

As has been said on here a lot, people expect WR's to take more than 1 year to develop.

If one or all of our 2nd round picks improves and shows up next year, we'll benefit greatly.

if Rhinehart improves and can play guard on either side at a solid level, we'll improve greatly. Along with Derrick Dockery, a free agent guard we signed, which you ignored when you typed :

"Zorn: zilch, nada, zero.., Not even a renewed Contract.."

People on here are way too overdramatic about everything. Could we have used better pieces on offense? Sure. Are the pieces we got on defense okay though? I think so.

Every team has strengths and weaknesses. Our weakness happens to be our offensive line and WR's right now, and we're not alone. Our strength is what should be an outstanding defense, and we're in short company in those regards. You can't have it all, that would be called an All-Madden team.

barackobama: "BUT WHEN IT COMES TO THE TRENCHES WHERE GAMES ARE WON, (OFFENSIVE LINE AND DEFENSIVE LINES) WE ARE SIGNING 450LB GUYS WHO HAVE BEEN OUT OF THE LEAGUE FOR 3 YEARS."

I'm not sure you're being entirely fair, Mr. President. Some of the other teams in the league -- I'm thinking of the Ravens at the moment -- spend high picks on interior linemen, but often lose them after a few years because they refuse to pay them.

The Skins apparently like to sign veterans, and many of those (if you can believe the media) are quite happy to come to Washington -- because the Skins pay better.

Take Jason Brown, the Ravens talented 26 year old center who left this season for a big paycheck in St. Louis. Allegedly, Newsome let him go because he thought Brown wanted too much money (a legit complaint, knowing NFL players). But then he looked at the available replacements and wound up paying almost as much for a soon-to-be-33 year old former All-Pro who was leaving the Vikings because they refused to pay him that much.

Neither one, by the way, was a high draft choice. Birk was a sixth rounder, Brown I believe a 4th.

Somebody might see Michael Oher as a value at 23, and Peria Jerry (NT) at 24, but would either have been a better pick than Orakpo at 13?

Posted by: Samson151 | May 7, 2009 12:26 PM | Report abuse

COMPLETELY DISAGREE!!! YOU ARE BASHING THE RAVENS FRONT OFFICE (PLAYOFFS, SUPERBOWLS, 13-3 SEASONS) BUT DEFENDING SNYDERRATO'S SORRY REDSKINS FRONT OFFICE??? ARE YOU PROUD THAT WE ALWAYS MISS THE PLAYOFFS??? YES WE THROW MONEY AT PLAYERS, BUT WE MADE THE PLAYOFFS TWICE IN TEN YEARS!!!!!!!

Source: “There’s No Doubt” The NFL Is Risking A Coaches Union
Posted by Mike Florio on May 7, 2009, 12:54 p.m. EDT
In response to stories regarding the decision to allow teams to opt out of the league-run pension plan — and the decision of some teams to do just that — we suggested earlier today that this controversy could prompt the league’s coaches to finally unionize.

As it currently exists, the NFL Coaches Association is just that: An association. It’s not a union, and it has no ability to compel management to bargain regarding terms and conditions of employment.

The coaches long have resisted full-blown unionization, primarily out of concern that those who openly support the effort could be squandering their opportunities for advancement to one of the 32 jobs they all covet.

But the issue with the pension plan presto-change-o could provide the tipping point.

“There’s no doubt” that the owners are risking an effort by the coaches to form a union, one league source told us.

The question ultimately will be whether enough of the teams do enough to motivate the coaches first to lay the foundation to force a union vote and then to cast a ballot in favor of the union.

For now, only nine of the teams have decided to pull out of the pension plan: the 49ers, Saints, Cardinals, Bills, Falcons, Cowboys, Texans, Jaguars, and Patriots. Whether that’s enough to trigger widespread rancor remains to be seen.

But, as to the coaches of the affected teams, the rancor already is there. We’ve heard of at least one team whose assistant coaches walked off the job earlier this week, and later returned. Elsewhere, coaches are meeting privately to plot strategy.

As one source explained it, the timing of the decision to make these changes to the pension plan reflects the league’s general brilliance. In response to assistant coaches carping about changes to pension plans that fewer and fewer American workers still enjoy, plenty of people will respond by advising the assistant coaches to be thankful they have jobs in the current economy.

And the league’s response to possible resignations very well might be this: “If you want to quit, quit. We’ll replace you in a heartbeat.”

Another source thinks that the league could see union-organizing efforts not only from coaches, but also from scouts and related front-office personnel, many of whom work long hours for relatively modest salaries.

So stay tuned on this one. It won’t affect what we see on the football field in September, but it definitely could have a huge impact on the manner in which the NFL does business.

Truth.. I was talking about THIS YEAR. Its a given that last year's offensive selections are a complete bust.

I didnt ignore Dockery.. HE WAS WAIVED, RELEASED!! Available to anyone. He wasnt a major Free Agent acquisition... Dockery was part of a Offensive Line that gave up 38 sacks in Buffalo.. ummm sounds familiar.. He should fit right in..

So yeah.. it was
"zilch, nada, zero.., Not even a renewed Contract.."
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"Would love to hear the conversation between Zorny and Holmgren at this event.....

As has been said on here a lot, people expect WR's to take more than 1 year to develop.

If one or all of our 2nd round picks improves and shows up next year, we'll benefit greatly.

if Rhinehart improves and can play guard on either side at a solid level, we'll improve greatly. Along with Derrick Dockery, a free agent guard we signed, which you ignored when you typed :

"Zorn: zilch, nada, zero.., Not even a renewed Contract.."

People on here are way too overdramatic about everything. Could we have used better pieces on offense? Sure. Are the pieces we got on defense okay though? I think so.

Every team has strengths and weaknesses. Our weakness happens to be our offensive line and WR's right now, and we're not alone. Our strength is what should be an outstanding defense, and we're in short company in those regards. You can't have it all, that would be called an All-Madden team.

Shutting another offense down is nice, but if you don't capitalize on the shorten field because your offense is wack, you wind up with field goals and close games either team could win: the rams/bengals games was proof of that last year.

And we've watched enough of that the past three-four years.

Winning 32-21 is just is not as fun to watch as close winning 10-6, I don't care what anybody says.

"April 2010 Redskins select QB Tim Tebow. Why? Because he's a great QB? Not a chance. Marketing potential? Definitely. The dude already has a line of thong undies named for him. I can so see Lil Danny with a pair draped over his head.

I wouldnt worry about this too much. It is way too early to say who is going where. But yes, I could see Snyder wearing undies on his head. Also, read an article about the Jaguars where they are rumored to be looking at Tebow.

I, personally, try to never be too overdramatic. My goal is to be just overdramatic enough. If I ever get to be too overdramatic, I sure hope I can count on you to let me know in that nice, subtle way of yours.

No chance at Tebow... Our Defense will win enough games to get us to 8-8 next year. Tebow goes with Bradford and McCoy in the top 10 for 2010 draft.
But then again, maybe Danny will pull off a blockbuster trade to move up..? The way Six Flags shares are going.. He can throw that into the trade package, as well.

"Truth.. I was talking about THIS YEAR. Its a given that last year's offensive selections are a complete bust. "

that says it all right there. I'll ignore everything else from Mr. President but before I do, let me ask you to stop everything you're trying to do with the economy cause we're going to the crapper thanks to you!

"No chance at Tebow... Our Defense will win enough games to get us to 8-8 next year. Tebow goes with Bradford and McCoy in the top 10 for 2010 draft.
But then again, maybe Danny will pull off a blockbuster trade to move up..? The way Six Flags shares are going.. He can throw that into the trade package, as well.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 7, 2009 1:50 PM | Report abuse "

Oddly enough, I think if Gibbs were still here he would take a shot at Tebow. We all know Gibbs loves the Bible thumpers and High Character guy, and Tebow is definitely both of those.

a: Because the field is wide as well as it is long. You need someone who can run sideline to sideline and LL is a lot faster than CH. Also, most of your plays are going to happen somewhere in the first twenty yards. You need guys with range in that box. When the Redskins run the Cobra, that box effectively gets cut in half by the presence of another strong safety, hence a better place for CH to play.

I take nothing away from Horton. He's a great tackler and has great instincts. He just fits as a third safety, that's all. Remember, until Springs got injured last year the team was experimenting with him at free safety so they could move LL up to the line. It's s shame Springs could not have been more durable because I think that would have worked out fabulously.

Hopefully it can only get better for Snyder..
His football team ended up in last place last year and Six flags would be delisted from the stock market if not for the new rules.
United Artists was probably his best investment in 08.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The way Six Flags shares are going.. He can throw that into the trade package, as well.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 7, 2009 1:50 PM

He actually owned only about 5% of the shares. That was part of the beauty of his play -- taking control of the company when he was only a 5% owner.

Gibbs and Theismann rethought how to use the QB effectively and were totally on the same page. Campbell has been on the block, twice, in favor of Cutler and then Sanchez.

That's how I would know.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 7, 2009

Again, in defense of both Zorn and Gibbs 2.0. If you consider all that has transpired, the ebb and flow, the power struggles within the organization ... the bottom line appears to be that Daniel Snyder is GM/HC of this team. Zorn is still just the offensive coordinator ... he is only HC in name. While Gibbs in Gibbs 2.0 was president in name only.

Fix the blame where it appears to squarely belong and that is mostly on Snyder.

In Gibbs 1.0 Betheard was the boss at Redskin's Park who hired Joe Gibbs after Jack Pardee was dimissed. JKC would periodically meet with his top people in Middleburg, Virginia ... not at Redskins Park. Snyder's office is at Redskins Park.

4th linebacker with tremendous speed and bone jarring tackles ... the real beast out there not damned Orapko. In the open field, like Taylor, he is deadly. Receivers going over the middle always hear his footsteps. Running backs fear what they must face after they get through the DL. And he can blitz. Grilliams knew what he was doing when he campaigned to pair Taylor with Landry.

Right now Doughty is the better coverage or free safety. Its up to Horton to be able to improve in that area while learning the other safety position as well. Injuries do happen often in the NFL. They will definitely need both guys.

"All I want is Landry being used in a way that takes advantage of his playmaking skills. Unlike some, I think he's an excellent blitzer and would provide game-changing plays if given the chance. Hopefully he'll get those chances."

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who

All I want is for Landry to make plays, period. It doesnt have to be as a blitzer or near the line of scrimmage.

No DB made more plays last year than Ed Reed and he's a FS. If the front 7 can get pressure then you will see Landry making plays at FS.

Agreed..... Dan has the perfect props.. A GM who isnt a GM and a Head Coach who doesnt make personnel decisions...ie. an Offensive Coordinator reporting to the Owner..

"JKC..Middleburg..."
Peric..how old are you??
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Again, in defense of both Zorn and Gibbs 2.0. If you consider all that has transpired, the ebb and flow, the power struggles within the organization ... the bottom line appears to be that Daniel Snyder is GM/HC of this team. Zorn is still just the offensive coordinator ... he is only HC in name. While Gibbs in Gibbs 2.0 was president in name only.

Fix the blame where it appears to squarely belong and that is mostly on Snyder.

In Gibbs 1.0 Betheard was the boss at Redskin's Park who hired Joe Gibbs after Jack Pardee was dimissed. JKC would periodically meet with his top people in Middleburg, Virginia ... not at Redskins Park. Snyder's office is at Redskins Park.

"All I want is for Landry to make plays, period. It doesnt have to be as a blitzer or near the line of scrimmage.

No DB made more plays last year than Ed Reed and he's a FS. If the front 7 can get pressure then you will see Landry making plays at FS.

Posted by: VaTerp1"

Exactly. And despite what others think, I believe Landry is more naturally fit to be a FS. His physical dimensions and his athletic attributes are tailor-made to play aggressively out in space. By all means, use his versatility as an advantage, but in no way should Landry be stuck as an in-the-box safety.

Wow. Reed Doughty and better coverage in the same sentence. Never thought I'd read that one. He is a hell of a free safety though.

Right now he is a better coverage safety than Horton. He also has a lot more experience and was put through the veritable wringer when he replaced Sean Taylor after his tragic death. That does not mean that Horton won't or can't improve.

Comment: He is listed as a free safety, but is really more of a box player, strong safety type. He has good size and good reactions near the line of scrimmage for a young player. He shows good lateral quickness to chase and pursue. He has adequate hand use to play off blocks and gives good, solid effort to find the ball. He is adequate with his angles, but needs to be smart with run support leverage, due to his lack of speed. He showed vision in traffic and was usually around piles, if not the primary tackler. He can provide good wrap tackles. When coming downhill from the back end, he takes aggressive angles but then has to adjust. With short-area coverage responsibility, he is lacking the ideal burst to match up with receivers. He will give up some separation versus quicker players. He was efficient with his transition steps, but is missing a burst on hard angles. He is more athletically suited to play strong safety rather than a lot of deep coverage.

Comment: He was a rookie that started every game in his first season. He is a good athlete with very good size and speed. He is listed as a strong safety, but was playing more free safety late in the year after the loss of Sean Taylor. From a deep alignment, he can close quickly to the line of scrimmage and support the run. He has very good acceleration with the ability to adjust his angles and maintain speed. He showed good body control to break down and provide good wrap on tackles. He has the body control to make solid tackles on quick running backs in space. He showed very good closing quickness in pursuit. He has outstanding range and covers ground very quickly. In coverage, he has quick feet to pedal and gain depth. He is smooth and balanced with good technique and footwork. He has good vision and you could see him gain confidence as the season progressed. He has good quickness in transition. He can plant, close and shows good burst. He takes good angles, does a good job reading the QB and is able to get a jump with his ability to anticipate. He has all the physical tools to be an outstanding player in a short amount of time. He will only get better with experience.

a: Because the field is wide as well as it is long. You need someone who can run sideline to sideline and LL is a lot faster than CH.

Posted by: RedSkinHead"

If I'm not mistaken, the field is just as wide 20 yards downfield as it is at the LOS.

And I believe that's why Landry plays where he does. To have one guy cover sideline-to-sideline, rather than having two slower safeties attempting to provide the same role. In the box, at least you have multiple LBs assisting in covering ground. Back there, in our system, there's only one guy. And that's why Landry's speed is more of an asset at FS than SS.

4th.. you must be on meds..
Dockery was WAIVED.. not wanted!! Anyone could of had him.. Below your comment is the Article from the Buffalo newspaper when Dockery was released...

4th Floor wrote:
And how can you discount Doc? Didn't the highest paid LT play in that same line? Point is moot.

Posted by: 4thFloor |
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

ORCHARD PARK — The Buffalo Bills pretty much admitted to making a colossal free-agent blunder Thursday when they waived left guard Derrick Dockery, who in 2007 received what was then the richest contract in team history.
Advertisement

With the free agency signing period beginning at 12:01 this morning, the Bills can only hope that whatever moves they make turn out better than the Dockery debacle.

Dockery signed a seven-year, $49 million blockbuster, a deal that was thought to be overly lucrative for a player who hadn't even been voted into a Pro Bowl during his first four years in the NFL with Washington.

As it turned out, the skeptics were right.

After a decent 2007 season, Dockery's performance slid noticeably in 2008 and the Bills made the decision on Thursday to eat a $5.4 million salary cap hit (he would have cost $5.85 million had he stayed with the team), which in turn enabled them to avoid paying Dockery a $1.75 million roster bonus due in a few weeks.

"OK time for me to get slammed. I like Reed Doughty. I think Chris Horton was in way over his head and was out of position at least 70% of the time. i hope I am wrong, but thats what i think"

Posted by: dbrine1261

I dont think that guys who are "in over their head" win NFC Player of the week or NFL defensive rookie of the month. And out of position 70% of the time?? Based on what? Have you reviewed the coaches tape? Are you privy to what calls Blache was makings and what Horton's responsibilities were? Do you really believe that a coach like Blache, who is a stickler for technique and following assignments, would let a rookie play so much if he was out of position anywhere close to 70% of the time?

If you wanna make the arguments that Horton overachieved last year, that he tailed off at the end of the season, that you dont think he's capable of being a long term starter then thats fine. But to say that he was in over his head and out of position so much is just complete and utter MADE UP GARBAGE. Again, what are you basing that on?

The first set are usually ex-corners who are great in coverage and in space.

The second set are usually almost linebackers who work best closer to the line of scrimmage where they can wreak the most havoc.

Posted by: periculum

Disagree completely with this. Landry a LB??? The guy is 6' 200 lbs. He is smaller and faster than most of the guys you are comparing him to. Yes, he has the ability to make plays near the LOS but I agree with psp that his physical attributes are best suited for FS.

In the end I dont think it matters all that much b/c are defense uses a lot of hybrid safety responsibilities. I think people are overthinking this when they talk about wanting to move Landry to SS. Much more pressing issues this team needs to worry about.

Again, if the front 7 can get pressure you will see Landry, and all of the secondary, making more plays all over the field.

"Ed Reed == Sean Taylor, Ronnie Lott, Paul Krause, Larry Wilson, Brian Dawkins, Willie Wood, Ken Houston
LaRon Landry == Jack Tatum, Richie Petitbone, Deron Cherry, Ken Easley, Steve Atwater
The first set are usually ex-corners who are great in coverage and in space.
The second set are usually almost linebackers who work best closer to the line of scrimmage where they can wreak the most havoc."

I have to agree, it seems almost ack-basswords. Taylor was far more like a very fast, punishing linebacker than a traditional free safety. There was nothing cornerback-like about Steve Atwater. Most of these guys played with the receiver in front of them -- not bumping and running alonside them.

I do keep reading this here. I guess after this past draft anything could happen when it comes to teams and QBs. But on performance alone, I'd put Bradford as a marginal top 5, McCoy as second half of the first round, and Tebow in the 2nd.

"COMPLETELY DISAGREE!!! YOU ARE BASHING THE RAVENS FRONT OFFICE (PLAYOFFS, SUPERBOWLS, 13-3 SEASONS) BUT DEFENDING SNYDERRATO'S SORRY REDSKINS FRONT OFFICE??? ARE YOU PROUD THAT WE ALWAYS MISS THE PLAYOFFS??? YES WE THROW MONEY AT PLAYERS, BUT WE MADE THE PLAYOFFS TWICE IN TEN YEARS!!!!!!! Posted by: BarackObama"

Wait a minute -- you're not really the President, are you?

You're that weird guy in the subway with the exclamation points on his forehead and the big question marks painted on his cheeks -- right? The one who yells at everybody?

I can appreciate a player like Horton. The boy is nails and a quick learner with natural skills. One of my favorite things to watch was him smoking runningbacks behind the line of scrimmage. I was happy to see this kid get his money, it was more than well deserved! I could of sworn he had 4 INTS and not 3.Send him on the blitz and he'll send Romo home with a concussion

I believe someone mentioned that Doughty was good in coverage. Lest we forget, remember that ugly, ugly pass interference call on him a couple of years ago where he was undressing the receiver before the ball ever got there? And before we go on a binge here, don't you remember how many times a receiver beat the Skins deep over the middle with the highlight film showing Doughty trying to catch up? I've said it before and I'll say it again: the guy does not have NFL speed. He's a great guy off the field and a smart player but I just don't think he fits. He could play the Cobra safety position but Horton is the better fit there, so I think that leaves him the odd man out and definitely on the bubble to make the team.