durianrider wrote:Michelle, you are cycling WAY more than my gf. You don't eat the same as her though and thats your problem. She has been eating a high carb, low fat, low protein, low sodium UNLIMITED calorie vegan diet for over 6 years now. LOTS of sweet fruits. We actually keep her training under 100km a week otherwise she would get too thin actually. She wants to keep a bit of curve. I sincerely doubt you would be willing to give up the fattening foods and replace them with steamed rice, vegan pasta dishes, fruit, sweet potato etc but I thought I would put it out there.

Not sure about anybody else, but if my diet meant I had to keep my training to less than 100km/week lest I get too thin, then I'd be heading straight down to the pie shop...

winstonw wrote:Now on average, I allow for burning around 18Cals/km for my non race riding...so that 600k should have burned 1.5kg of fat.

Out of interest, can we see your calculation, Winston?

Happy to play 'Spot the error', if there is one.

uses analyticcycling.com's formula, which of all the formula I've played with, parallels my experiments with power meters best.assumptions- 18Cals/km is energy expended on top of resting energy expenditure (because I compare energy expended by cycling vs not cycling)- average speed is 28-30kph on my regular rides which don't have a lot of hills. However, i find this rate is quite accurate for out and back rides with more hills because the downhills cancel much of the higher energy expenditure of the uphills, and the average speed in between hills drops a bit.- I've successfully used this chart to help many road cyclists plan additional energy intake for weight maintenance and loss.

Very impressed by all of that, Winston - am copying and pasting for future reference!

By the look of it, you did about 20 hours at round about 400 calories an hour more than say, the calories expended reading this forum. Although Durianrider's posts may have raised your blood pressure and skewed the figures.

Anyway, that ends up being almost exactly the same as metabolizing a kilogram of fat, so it has to be asked, what was for dinner that week?????

clackers wrote:Very impressed by all of that, Winston - am copying and pasting for future reference!

By the look of it, you did about 20 hours at round about 400 calories an hour more than say, the calories expended reading this forum. Although Durianrider's posts may have raised your blood pressure and skewed the figures.

Anyway, that ends up being almost exactly the same as metabolizing a kilogram of fat, so it has to be asked, what was for dinner that week?????

yeah I said i don't eat junk, but have had a lot of social stuff (incl. mild to mod booze)...Also trying to stay up and catch some of the Giro sees me whipping up an avocado and multigrain bread sandwich, or 2, or 3, and hot soy milk coffee....then if tired at work, there's a nut jar in the kitchen which is regularly visited.

Anyway, I need to cut fat to improve race performance, so am slowly reining things in - am taking green smoothies to work to get me through the hectic afternoon session, and off the nuts. And am weaning off the booze. Decided to do the Strava May Massive to help lose weight.. will be happy with 1500km for the month, but may have a crack at 2000k. Got 695k up as of now.

winstonw wrote:Now on average, I allow for burning around 18Cals/km for my non race riding...so that 600k should have burned 1.5kg of fat.

Out of interest, can we see your calculation, Winston?

Happy to play 'Spot the error', if there is one.

And while you're at it can you stop mixing metric (kph, kg, kms) and imperial (Cals) measures ... drives me nuts !!

yes, guilty....Being smaller numbers, I find Calories easier to work with, remember many unprocessed staples, and teach others. Though might have to change all that now that processed foods are dropping 'Calorie' units. though easy enough to divide kJ by 4 for approx Cals (actually 4.1818)

biker jk wrote:My experience and that of cycling friends is that riding on its own will not lead to weight loss unless you look at your diet as well. From when I started cycling again in 2004 to now I have lost 12kg but cut out sugary soft drinks and other bad foods.

ft_critical wrote:I don't see how this can be accurate without a power meter.

It doesn't have to be super accurate. It's a guide to adjusting energy intake for ride volume and intensity, something many riders cannot even get in the ballpark of.

IMO, analytic's algorithm is more accurate than that used by the Garmin 500. The Garmin 800 and 510 are more accurate. Strava also grossly overestimates energy expenditure.

Calculating energy expenditure from a power meter won't include efficiency at transforming body movement to the pedals. Even with the additional accuracy of a power meter, ime variation in endocrine and stress/distress factors is more important in controlling appetite and weight.

ft_critical wrote:I don't see how this can be accurate without a power meter.

It doesn't have to be super accurate. It's a guide to adjusting energy intake for ride volume and intensity, something many riders cannot even get in the ballpark of.

IMO, analytic's algorithm is more accurate than that used by the Garmin 500. The Garmin 800 and 510 are more accurate. Strava also grossly overestimates energy expenditure.

Calculating energy expenditure from a power meter won't include efficiency at transforming body movement to the pedals. Even with the additional accuracy of a power meter, ime variation in endocrine and stress/distress factors is more important in controlling appetite and weight.

Just joking. It is as though nothing is real in cycling unless measured by a power metre

Hey, people can debate. Thats fine. My results speak for themselves. So do Freelee's. Whilst some people here are starving and counting calories with fear we will be stuffing our faces with delicious healthy carb meals and training when ever we feel like it. Not for weight loss either, but just for strava KOM's.

durianrider wrote:Hey, people can debate. Thats fine. My results speak for themselves. So do Freelee's. Whilst some people here are starving and counting calories with fear we will be stuffing our faces with delicious healthy carb meals and training when ever we feel like it. Not for weight loss either, but just for strava KOM's.

Harvey, in all seriousness, I am still vague about what exactly Freelee and you eat. When I first heard about you, I thought you just ate 30 bananas a day, and nothing else. Could I ask you at some stage to provide a food diary of everything put in your mouth for a week, and the daily exercise done. I'd love to do an analysis of your macro and micronutrient intake. Obviously, you'd have to use a cup or digital scales to record the amounts. Might be a pita, but it would certainly help others understand your passion better, and be a great teaching tool for your talks around the world.

Also, could I ask if you have ever been diagnosed with health, personality, or cognitive issues (mania, ADHD, dyslexia), and whether you feel your diet has helped these? Are you left handed?

winstonw wrote:yeah I said i don't eat junk, but have had a lot of social stuff (incl. mild to mod booze)...Also trying to stay up and catch some of the Giro sees me whipping up an avocado and multigrain bread sandwich, or 2, or 3, and hot soy milk coffee....then if tired at work, there's a nut jar in the kitchen which is regularly visited.

I'm still amazed at someone doing twenty hours of aerobic exercise in a week and not losing any weight.

The nuts and avocados do have a lot of fat in them (even if they call them the 'good' oils).

My breakfast was dedicated to Durian... 3 bananas and a pile of dried figs that I brought back from Morocco ( my fav fruit! ) . Plus Bananas are super cheap in france... got to subsidize all the DOM / TOM's I expect.

durianrider wrote:Michelle, you are cycling WAY more than my gf. You don't eat the same as her though and thats your problem. She has been eating a high carb, low fat, low protein, low sodium UNLIMITED calorie vegan diet for over 6 years now. LOTS of sweet fruits. We actually keep her training under 100km a week otherwise she would get too thin actually. She wants to keep a bit of curve. I sincerely doubt you would be willing to give up the fattening foods and replace them with steamed rice, vegan pasta dishes, fruit, sweet potato etc but I thought I would put it out there.

Not sure about anybody else, but if my diet meant I had to keep my training to less than 100km/week lest I get too thin, then I'd be heading straight down to the pie shop...

winstonw wrote:yeah I said i don't eat junk, but have had a lot of social stuff (incl. mild to mod booze)...Also trying to stay up and catch some of the Giro sees me whipping up an avocado and multigrain bread sandwich, or 2, or 3, and hot soy milk coffee....then if tired at work, there's a nut jar in the kitchen which is regularly visited.

I'm still amazed at someone doing twenty hours of aerobic exercise in a week and not losing any weight.

The nuts and avocados do have a lot of fat in them (even if they call them the 'good' oils).

And what's your intake on your rides, if you don't mind me asking?

Hmmm...haven't worked out the hours yet. But it was 600km over 10 or 11 days from memory. As of today, it's 750km for the first 15 days of May. (Am aiming for 1500km). 600/10*7 = 420 km/wk. I know many guys who do more than this and don't lose weight, and eat really well. Most of them are 20 something uni students who have the time to cycle that much. One of the guys does around 700km a week when full on, which is pretty common for elite amateur racers which he is. More amazing, there's a well known colorful character in Brisbane's northern burbs who does 600k most weeks, who is in his 70s (Cookie)...lovely lovely chap, ex A grade rugby league player, and successful cycle racer. Doesn't eat crap as he is a true healthy frugal. Haven't even seen him eat on a ride, but shared a coffee with him once at a cafe and he pulled out a jam sandwich, no butter.

As for my ride intake, I am riding most days so rarely ride more than 60km. Weekdays, I try to ride 30-60 in the morning and get out again on several afternoons for another 30-40. Sat I can race 30-35k, and do 80+k ride Sundays. I don't have to worry about ride food apart from a long Sunday ride, and that's usually 2-4% cordial (and salt) in my bottles, and a small ladyfinger banana (seriously) or half muesli bar for the 2nd and consecutive hours.

Today, I ate - 50g of rolled oats as porridge with around 100ml of soy milk. - a small soy flat white coffee and then a long black during my morning ride (stopped to meet mates). - cup of rice and 2cups steamed vege and soy sauce for post ride eat. - chicken and salad sandwich for lunch with small soy flat white- 15g of nuts in the afternoon. - dinner was this http://hotcooking.co.uk/recipes/70/jami ... tea-salmonwhich is a brilliant meal. (125g salmon, 1/2 cup of rice, 4 cups vege)will finish with a 1/2 soy milk instant coffee.

Not great IMO, but I do know a little about your health/history & as is my Wife's dilemma coffee makes her feel better. (Thyroid issues) I still think it should be avoided if possible as that amount of caffeine really isn't going to help anything, but will effect the way your food is digested & has been proven to be a diarrhetic. tisk tisk.

Not great IMO, but I do know a little about your health/history & as is my Wife's dilemma coffee makes her feel better. (Thyroid issues) I still think it should be avoided if possible as that amount of caffeine really isn't going to help anything, but will effect the way your food is digested & has been proven to be a diarrhetic. tisk tisk.

yeah Zep...noted. Like many, I use exercise and caffeine to whip my energy levels up....which always lifts after a ride, possibly it's the extra oxygenation of the brain. Wish I was more like you, and flushed with energy, no matter the time of day! BTW, pm me if you want to come to a free talk tomorrow night by the Dr Oz of South Korea. He is a plant based eating advocate talking about how we can exert control over genetic expression in relation to food and longevity. The talk is in Everton Park. Nundah doctors (Cattons) are organizing it.

I believe most of the battle for weight is what I eat. Most of the battle to stay fit is the riding. Ergo both need to be attended to. My regimen is simple and slots in well for a disposition to glutony.

Objective weight - 77.5kg - a lean target for a fairly muscular body and 183cm broad shouldered frame on long legs. Age has nothing to do with your best weight and should not be used as an excuse to drop the bar. Being "normally" healhy for a sixty year old is a person less well than they can be and only equates to an ideal if your ideal is to be less functional with age.

Regimen

Weigh myself every morning first thing and note how much over I am

Cup of strong tea (caffeine)

Ride most of way to work to Sassys - 17km, 90-100mins - coffee and a muffin , or heavier stickier if the weighin was favourable

Ride rest of way to work - 5km, 25mins

Work thru lunch without eating. I break this if I am feeling particularly drained - a cold or other infection for example

I occasionally will take iron tablets if I have a sustained listlessness - due to exercise (knocks off red cells) or having regular NSAIDs (which also knocks off red cells).

More often than not I weigh in about 0.5kg over but the target stays where it is. While I will occasionally sustain an excess of a couple of kg for a few days, I make this as rare as I can and never leave it at that for longer than, say, three or four days. Next weeek I am on a long srive holiday so I anticipate I will add a few for a few days.

Is this for you?I readily concede that there are better ways to maintain your short term and long term health/weight. It works well for me as I am, basically, a glutton. One size doesn't fit all and other gluttons you may find this useful. Otherwise something else.

(Unicycling is less intese than riding a bike at speed. Naturally on a bike the times would be less,the speeds greater and the intensity of riding someewhat greater than mine.)

Last edited by ColinOldnCranky on Thu May 16, 2013 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

clackers wrote:@Winston. You're doing all the right things. As an IT guy I'm still fighting the KFC/pizza/Red Bull culture.

You may well be adding weight as muscle, which is why male athletes fail the BMI test, and sports club medicos prefer skinfold tests.

I'm probably older than you Clackers. If you are still eating like that when over 50, I can only imagine you'd be struggling more with your weight and general health. As you get older, sub optimal diets really cruel you...same for alcohol!!! It's amazing how some guys resist giving away the booze to lose weight, even if just for 3 mths. I tend to find when I eat healthier, or exercise more (like I am through May) the booze cravings just disappear.

ColinOldnCranky wrote:Weigh myself every morning first thing and note how much over I am

Colin, I think monitoring your weight most mornings is a good idea (or maybe just a fav belt buckle). In my experience, this is the advice given to elite athletes... i.e.they have several bodyweight thresholds.during competition, weight goal on arising might be 77-78 kg. If they weigh in over 78, they cut back on desserts, junk, eating out, or revert to a diet of a known Calorie intake. If they fall below 77, they are allowed extra starch or desserts.

Some scoff at daily weigh ins as obsessive, but it works well because it is like a guided missile.....more frequent regular feedback on whether on course results in smaller adjustments to dietary intake. This helps stop cravings and life stress from getting too strong a grip, and slipping into a destructive positive feedback loop.

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