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This is probably the least stupid card I've seen suggested. And by least stupid I mean possibly the best.

Thanks. I spent a solid month last year trying to make a 'goat(+)' custom format similar to newgioh but bigger. I liked newgioh a lot but I thought it could go further. And I thought it would have more success as an 'eternal' format with tons of deck construction options.

Honestly, I kind of want to get back into it but I'd need like, way more smart and creative people to help and care about it in order to succeed.

I had a few rules regarding "goat format feel" when considering additions/bans. Would like to hear some feedback tbh:

1. Limit new special summons.

2. No hand traps.

3. No hand peaking.

4. Banished cards stay banished.

5. Limit new summoning mechanics.

I think rule 4 has already been broken by RftDD/Fusion; however, the decks that use them are all pretty lousy anyways, so I guess that's fair.

Rule 3 has been broken by dustshoot, and I actually don't think this works badly in goat; the only issue is that dustshoot doesn't just give you hand info... it actually can make your opponent brick.

Rule 2 I generally agree with; primarily because every single handtrap would either be mediocre/situational or craps on TER/Faith; this just ruins the integrity of the format, and I think that effect negation/overpowered outs to TER (Ghost Ogre, which would be a perfectly fine card with TER out of the equation) should not be added.

By rule 1 do you just mean having the ''average amount of SS use'' not go past the amount in something like Troop-Dupe format (yes, the name is not accurate as HERO is actual the best deck, but then again)? In which case fair.

Rule 5 I generally agree with; adding additional summoning mechanics would be really awkward and is something best reserved for a format like Newgioh.

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XYZ is the least awkward summoning mechanic to add in my opinion. Some of the synchro monsters are really cool, but I feel as if Edison format would be the starting place for a custom synchro format.

Re: Dustshoot, return, DF-- I play to ban all three because they detract from the fun of the format as is. The rules are guiding principals of what I think makes goat format feel like goat format, and I actually dislike the inclusion of all of those cards as is. So I certainly wouldn't want to add more of them.

The goal of rule 1 is to prevent goat format from turning into modern ygo where you can spam special summon an entire board. New special summons deserve extra scrutiny and it is best if they are somewhat limited or conflict with each other (so that any single deck does not have access to all the new s/s cards without a major cost in synergy). For example: Green Baboon is good because it is Beast deck exclusive. Another example might be that we only add 2 copies of Destiny HERO - Malicious, if we even think the card adds any value at all, in order to limit board spam.

and jesus christ effect veiler's a fucking nightmare in goat format. everyone thinks hand traps add this super awesome extra layer of interaction but i havent spoken to a single living human that tested it and thought that it did anything but make the format strictly lamer

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i think some form of effect negation would be neat. i think veiler might be a bit overboard since the only threat to it is duo/card dest, etc. its also a light lvl 1. i think fiendish chain would make a decent addition while still keeping things interesting, or maybe breakthrough as someone suggested, that way you dont completely kill saku's playability.

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i agree with the rule but disagree slightly with your examples. why dont u think it is fun to punish bad players who play dustshoot poorly and in wrong decks? same to a lesser extent for DF/RFTDD

I dislike that dustshoot can provide 'perfect info' in a format that emphasizes players' abilities to make reads. I don't like how much more powerful dustshoot is when drawn at the start of the game. I think the card detracts from making reads and introduces a ton of variance. I don't think its inconsistency and its likelihood to backfire outweight my other concerns.

I dislike that DF+RFTDD undo the effect of banishing monsters. I like how slowly building your graveyard over the course of a duel is an important aspect of goat format, and I like how banishing your opponent's monsters is otherwise an extremely strong play (NoC, Kycoo, Book of Life, Dark Blade the Dragon Knight, CS, BLS). I dislike how much more powerful DF+RFTDD are when drawn near the end of the game. I dislike how easy it is to OTK with both cards when you are 'losing'. I think both cards detract from a core aspect of the format (limited but important banishing) and introduce a ton of variance.

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i think some form of effect negation would be neat. i think veiler might be a bit overboard since the only threat to it is duo/card dest, etc. its also a light lvl 1. i think fiendish chain would make a decent addition while still keeping things interesting, or maybe breakthrough as someone suggested, that way you dont completely kill saku's playability.

I am not necessarily opposed but I would need some good examples to consider.

I think a boss monster that negates would be potentially cool.

I think a card such as Solemn Warning would simply be annoying because it amounts to forcing your opponent to lose out on a summon. It's basically a more powerful but costly version of Ring.

I'm not sure about fiendish chain but I like the fact that it doesn't kill the monster, so it's not as powerful as something like SW in terms of favoring the 'leading' player. It's a potential one-of trap to add I suppose.

I'm actually not sure how many spells/traps I would want to add to the format other than 'archetype support'. If you consider all the spells/traps that are already staples or included in the format, there's a lot to work with. What is truly limiting in goat format is the collection of monsters that are available to consider. If there were a wider array of monsters, one could build many more decks. I think most people quite like the core set of spells/traps in the format other than say, pot and duo, which I would certainly ban.

I dislike that dustshoot can provide 'perfect info' in a format that emphasizes players' abilities to make reads. I don't like how much more powerful dustshoot is when drawn at the start of the game. I think the card detracts from making reads and introduces a ton of variance. I don't think its inconsistency and its likelihood to backfire outweight my other concerns.

I dislike that DF+RFTDD undo the effect of banishing monsters. I like how slowly building your graveyard over the course of a duel is an important aspect of goat format, and I like how banishing your opponent's monsters is otherwise an extremely strong play (NoC, Kycoo, Book of Life, Dark Blade the Dragon Knight, CS, BLS). I dislike how much more powerful DF+RFTDD are when drawn near the end of the game. I dislike how easy it is to OTK with both cards when you are 'losing'. I think both cards detract from a core aspect of the format (limited but important banishing) and introduce a ton of variance.

playing against perfect information is a skill in itself

imo DF is actually so bad that it just doesn't need attention, the variance balances itself out in the long run. honestly i think the real reason people want these cards banned is so that they don't have to side 3 threatening roar in literally every deck lol. right now goats is in an awkward spot where every sidedeck just starts with 9 cards because 6 of them are always devoted to lame nutcheck bullshit

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I am not necessarily opposed but I would need some good examples to consider.

I think a boss monster that negates would be potentially cool.

I think a card such as Solemn Warning would simply be annoying because it amounts to forcing your opponent to lose out on a summon. It's basically a more powerful but costly version of Ring.

I'm not sure about fiendish chain but I like the fact that it doesn't kill the monster, so it's not as powerful as something like SW in terms of favoring the 'leading' player. It's a potential one-of trap to add I suppose.

I'm actually not sure how many spells/traps I would want to add to the format other than 'archetype support'. If you consider all the spells/traps that are already staples or included in the format, there's a lot to work with. What is truly limiting in goat format is the collection of monsters that are available to consider. If there were a wider array of monsters, one could build many more decks. I think most people quite like the core set of spells/traps in the format other than say, pot and duo, which I would certainly ban.

i agree on the general premise that the issue w the format being stale is lack of monsters, however monsters were like the first thing to experience significant power creep, so in general its hard to introduce them to a format like goat w.o warping the entire format, i feel anyway.