"It is fascinating that plants and animals have evolved the same anti-predatory mechanism to generate noxious sensations," Julius said.

c.f. the similarities between the human eye and the squid eye. Given the phase space it's not totally surprising that different organisms evolved similar solutions. Or maybe the flying spaghetti monster [wikipedia.org] intelligently designed it that way!

It would be truly shocking if they actually shared the same receptor... has that ever happened? A plant growing an animal cell? Just curious...

Incidentally, the article doesn't really say if the same proteins are used by the pepper and the arachnid to provoke this receptor. Somehow I doubt it, since TFA says that just simple heat from the sun, as well as "peppery food, mustard oil and other compounds" also target it. Seems more coincidental than anything; a porcupine and a cactus would be another example of a plant and an animal developing a similar defense mechanism, no? Plant or animal, we do all seem to share the same world here...

I think it's usability. Naturaly, the effect is "popular" in the evolution, so it's possible, that they produce similar substances to achieve the same effect. Think of the many opiate-s (heroin, opium, morfium). They all have similar effects, since they influence the same receptors.

>> The findings demonstrate that some plants and animals have evolved the same molecular strategy to deter predators -- triggering pain by activating a specific receptor on sensory nerves.

This doesn't sound right. If this assertion is correct, it implies that as an organism is developing, its evolution is not only based on its perception of the environment, but on the exact biological constitution of it. How can a tarantula, for example, "know" of the existence of such receptors in its predators?

I would imagine it works the other way around: predators developed a common sensory receptor to detect specific chemical threats, and trigger an immediate physical response in order to prevent further consumption.

I think it might really be more a matter that the tarantulas whose venom activated these receptors had a far greater success in the wild; I don't think it's particularly accurate to say that things evolve based on their perception of their environment because, well, no one chooses how they evolve (though we're coming damn close to being able to).

How can a tarantula, for example, "know" of the existence of such receptors in its predators?

Not necessarly need to "know". Some tanratula ancestrors could have mutated and started to secrete a some special compound into their venom. This compound was somewhat able to trigger an effect on some receptor of the thermo-algic nerves and thus provoking pain and burn sensasion.Those new mutant therefor happen to have discovered a better way to defend themselfes from potential predators and other menace. They surv

This doesn't sound right. If this assertion is correct, it implies that as an organism is developing, its evolution is not only based on its perception of the environment, but on the exact biological constitution of it. How can a tarantula, for example, "know" of the existence of such receptors in its predators?

Knowledge doesn't enter the picture. Chili plants (and tarantulas) experiment with chemicals, the more painful ones live, and the less painful ones are eaten. They don't need to "know" why that happe

So you have a choice, suffer the toxin of the spider venom, or eat 16 million Scoville pure capsaicin crystals and lose the feeling in your face forever?
Fuck it, I'll take my chances with the spiders!

I start to feel worried when I see a post on slashdot that makes more sense to me than what the scientific article says. To me that means that the standard of conclusions being made from scientific observations is very poor.

That's a very interesting idea, I don't have sufficient knowledge of vanilloid receptors to judge entirely.

However, beyond their powerful spice effect, chillis (modern ones at least) don't pose a 'specific chemical threat'. So, a receptor inducing pain is unlikely to have offered a selective benefit for its carrier.

In the case of a spider, they certainly wouldn't need to 'know' of the existence of a specific receptor. Those that were able to induce pain in a predator would be more likely to have a repr

The active ingredient in chili peppers has been used as a topical pain relief treatment for ages, you can buy it over the counter. It's also the active ingredient in that self-defense pepper spray. The more you know... [wikipedia.org]

'Receptor' in this case refers not to a cell, but to a specific protein structure called TRPV1. Many proteins exist in both plants and animals, particularly the ones most fundamental to life, such as those needed for DNA replication. This may be a little further afield, but it's really not shocking at all.Further, TRPV1 (more familiarly known as capsaicin receptor) is, in fact, activated both by heat from traditional sources (the sun, a stove, etc.) but also by things which we perceive as hot (such as peppe

A biochemist friend of mine was telling me about some of his prospective research projects some time ago. It turns out that the receptor for capsacsin and for high temperature are one and the same, and what's unusual about these receptors is that they are not on the cell surface where most receptors are, but within the cell. This explains why it takes a little while for hot peppers to give you that tingle, and why it takes a while for it to go away, btw.

There's a spider in Australia known as the "Huntsman". It's a bit venomous (not that much as most Australian spiders, probably no worse than an American black widow). It's real weapon is terror -- it's so big it scares its victims to death. About the size of your hand, they're very fast and they *leap*.

Not a real bad thing to see in your house though, as it means all the really nasty spiders have become Huntsman food. They don't seem to bother with webs. I don't think I'd want to cook with one of tho

You can easily test that. Get yourself a bottle of original Russian "Pertsovka". It is a type of vodka, which has been left to stay above chilies. The drink has a reddish brown hue which depending on your level of capsacine addiction signifies either instant death or ultimate pleasure (or one through the other).

It is the closest thing in the real world to the Pangalactic Gargle Blaster. You definitely feel like having your brains smashed out by a slice of lemon wrapped round a large gold brick. In small quantities it is like getting them smashed with a "mere" hammer.

"it implies..."It doesn't. Nowhere does what you've quited imply that either spider or plant know anything about their environment. They simply "know" that they've not been eaten and can spread their seed - and thus (continue to) do so.

Blair's Megadeath Sauce is actually pretty good; its got a good flavor beneath the pain. A drop of it in some rice or soup is tasty.

Don't try eating any of it straight though, I must have drank 3 litres of water the one time I tried it like that. Not that the water helped, but it hurt so much I thought I should at least try to do something to help.

Suppose there are 100 tarantula communities scattered around the globe. 99 of them have a weak poison that predators cannot taste. One of them leaves a burning sensation. After a couple of sacrificial tarantula the remaining in the community may live unmolested.

This doesn't sound right. If this assertion is correct, it implies that as an organism is developing, its evolution is not only based on its perception of the environment, but on the exact biological constitution of it. How can a tarantula, for example, "know" of the existence of such receptors in its predators?I would imagine it works the other way around: predators developed a common sensory receptor to detect specific chemical threats, and trigger an immediate physical response in order to prevent furthe

From what I've read, capsaicin works by altering the temperature set point for nerves. Sort of like messing up the calibration to temperature. The temperature that causes a burning sensation is lowered to below body temperature. Which also explains why cold drinks tend to help. On a related note, wintergreen oil (and related chemicals) do the opposite: set the cold sense higher. Apparently both work on the same pathway.

Which makes me curious if anyone has combined chile with wintergreen and what happened.

It may seem odd that capsaicin, a pain-causing compund, can relieve pain. Based on research, it appears that the receptors targetted by capsaicin can eventually become "fatigued", and stop responding, thus easing pain in the case of arthritis or shingles. A doctor friend of mine told me he was once involved in capsaicin pain-relief research. According to him, they injected several rabbits with a relatively pure capsaicin extract. The rabbits writhed in agony for an entire night, but the next day seemed calm and normal. They were put through a battery of tests, and to the incredulity of the researchers, they didn't respond to any pain stimulus whatsoever. It was (he said) as though they'd been completely and permanently anesthetised. In effect, they had "burned out" the capsaicin receptors of the rabbits.

@ 16787299 [slashdot.org] : It's not plagiarism, everything on the site are copyright free press releases. We just aggregate the best ones (manually chosen by me - Im a phd student in retrovirology / bioinformatics).