I noticed something I never saw before, but in the DC/Marvel crossover, there's actually a small art piece showing Darkseid and Thanos matching eye beam for eye beam, neither having any advantage. Their fight is mostly off panel but throughout the series, it was unquestionably implied that their fight was more than just some brief encounter. People point out that Orion's loss to Surfer carries weight because it represents an author's (John Byrne's) interpretation of how the fight would really happen despite not being canon, yet we see here that the same logic points to Darkseid and Thanos being evenly matched.

Quote:

Quote:

I don't know why people point out Orion's loss to Surfer, are they willing to accept the logical consequences?

Quote:

Quote:

Sure. The thing is that when you're trying to measure Darkseid vs. Thanos, you have to take everything into account. This is just one showing. I agree that Darkseid should be positioned as an equal to Thanos as the consummate teambuster, but until the New 52, that hasn't often been the case. Even here as you point out, we see that Thanos' eye blasts are seen as equal to Darkseid's omegas. Thanos' eye blasts are just a typical attack for him. Darkseid's omegas represent the pinnacle of his power.

Quote:

Quote:

Both characters have had showings all over the place, but certainly some showings are more memorable and prominent than others. Darkseid has both beaten and lost to Superman, DC's most prominent or second most prominent character. In two cases, Superman flat out beat Darkseid cleanly with Darkseid admitting he lost. Another time, Superman got a save from Wonder Woman's vambraces against Darkseid's omegas, but after that, Superman went on to beat Darkseid convincingly. Given all of these instances and that Doomsday also humiliated Darkseid, it's hard to see Darkseid as significantly more powerful than Superman.

Quote:

Quote:

Thanos has also had good and bad showings. He's shown he can beat Adam Warlock easily, that he could probably take down Thor and Thing simultaneously (and this was before he got a notable power up upon his resurrection), that he could keep up with Odin for a time, and he's beaten the Annihilators. On the lower end, he struggled against Drax, Nova, and Peter Quill in the Cancerverse, he's lost to the Avengers and Guardians of the Galaxy combined, and while in a weakened state, Thanos lost to the Shi'ar Imperial Guard. Thanos has never lost to a Superman-level foe in a straight fight though and that should count for something.

Quote:

Well, he has but they we’re retconned away. Lost to Masterson Thor and Ka-Zar. Had those not been retconned, would Thanos really look all that superior? I’m not sure if the loss to Squirrel Girl was indisputably retconned but most ignore it because it’s too silly. And Drax did punch a hole through his chest. Was never impressed with his durability feats like withstanding a black hole because top tiers do that too. The Surfer series made it clear that he doesn’t think of Norrin as much more than a gnat. That’s impressive. But Norrin is an extreme pacifist, and by design, really shouldn’t have more powerful than the smallest fraction of Galactus’ power who views his heralds as worms in comparison and actually transformed Terrax into one to prove that. Norrin’s durability has been highly inconsistent, so when he gets smacked around, it’s not the same feel when it happens to Thor. And would a writer dare conceive of a Thor or Gladiator getting armbarred by Black Panther - doubt it, but strangely it wasn’t as obvious to writers when it came to Surfer. Outside of the clear gap between Thanos and Surfer, when has he demolished a top tier that led no doubt? And I don’t mean one shot backhands or knocking heads together as suggestive evidence - Darkseid does that to Suuperman all the time - but a true butt kicking where the other is decimated and cant continue? He he done this to Gladiator, Hyperion, Thor, Sentry, or Hulk? I see things impressive lately like pulverizing Abomination who just got through decimating an Avengers team including She-Thor, but it turned out to only be a dream reality. Can he really do that to Abomination? I don’t know... but I’ll say that it feels like a lot of his impressive feats are marked with some context not explained by fans like his fight with Tyrant, or how he defeated Maker Beyonder without informing that Maker has only a fraction of true form Beyonder power and was a mortal form willingly allowing it to suffer much more damage. Thanos does not have a counter team so eager to dispute his accomplishments and scrutinize him like super hero’s have. Yeah, he gave Odin a tough time... but so did She-Thor who pissed off Odin waaaay worse, like, I’m going to kill you bitch! Why is it so indisputable that he’s substantially more powerful than a top tier? When has he team busted a team that had more than one or two top tiers?

Also, I do think Darkseid defeating Zeus counts for a lot. High Father is so powerful that he can simply stop time to defeat Superman. There is no power in Marvel that can stop time like that below a skyfather.