Are you guys being homers or do you really think the pirates could finish ahead of the cardinals? I really don't think much of the brewers, so I think 3rd place is definitely within reach, but that cardinals team is stacked (again).

Troy Loney wrote:Are you guys being homers or do you really think the pirates could finish ahead of the cardinals? I really don't think much of the brewers, so I think 3rd place is definitely within reach, but that cardinals team is stacked (again).

I expect the Pirates to be in 3rd, and maybe .500, but I'd be shock if they finished ahead of the Reds or Cards. And my homer pick, and I don't think its much of a stretch, would be the Braves winning the East.

Yeah, I'm being a homer, too. Realistically the Cards are better than the Buccos on paper.

I'm curious to see how the Cards rotation works out with Carpenter and potentially Lohse out. Garcia is good but was injured last year, Lance Lynn was good some months and bad others, Westbrook is 35, Shelby Miller is unproven. I don't know. Maybe I'm grasping at straws.

Meanwhile the Pirates outlook is no better: Burnett's 36, Wandy's is solid yet unimpressive, JMac has to get his head straight, Karstens and Liriano got hurt already, Morton's recovering, Cole's a half-season away, and McPherson and Locke have only shown glimpses. So....STL rotation > PIT rotation

STL bullpen at least has depth. The Pirates pen has so many unknowns. Grilli as a closer could be great or could be awful. Hughes only has 1 full season in MLB, Watson will be decent, Melancon should be solid but after that it's a crapshoot.

schreibdog wrote:Yeah, I'm being a homer, too. Realistically the Cards are better than the Buccos on paper.

I'm curious to see how the Cards rotation works out with Carpenter and potentially Lohse out. Garcia is good but was injured last year, Lance Lynn was good some months and bad others, Westbrook is 35, Shelby Miller is unproven. I don't know. Maybe I'm grasping at straws.

Meanwhile the Pirates outlook is no better: Burnett's 36, Wandy's is solid yet unimpressive, JMac has to get his head straight, Karstens and Liriano got hurt already, Morton's recovering, Cole's a half-season away, and McPherson and Locke have only shown glimpses. So....STL rotation > PIT rotation

STL bullpen at least has depth. The Pirates pen has so many unknowns. Grilli as a closer could be great or could be awful. Hughes only has 1 full season in MLB, Watson will be decent, Melancon should be solid but after that it's a crapshoot.

But I'm keeping my homer stance and taking the Buccos

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, obviously St Louis has some issues in the rotation with Carpenter being done. That's why I have them missing out on the wild card, but the Pirates have the same issues with the rotation. I'm not a fan of this Liriano pickup. It's terrible to have a guy loading the basepaths with walks every game. Hopefully Martin helps alleviate the stealing free for all that took place last year, but that can't all have been on Barajas last year right? I can really see the bottom 3 in this rotation taxing the hell out of the bulpen again in the first half and setting the team up another poorous second half.

I hope you're right. Rogers finally gave the green light to spend and Anthopolous ran with it.

I'm definitely pulling for the Blue Jays to win that division. But with that team, I see a lot of solo home runs and strike outs in the lineup. The bullpen doesn't look very good, and there are some guys in the rotation with some control problems.

I hope you're right. Rogers finally gave the green light to spend and Anthopolous ran with it.

I'm definitely pulling for the Blue Jays to win that division. But with that team, I see a lot of solo home runs and strike outs in the lineup. The bullpen doesn't look very good, and there are some guys in the rotation with some control problems.

I get what you mean about the lineup. There's a lot of power in there, but they also bring a lot of strikeouts.

The bullpen is what frightens me most. The only starter I worried about was Romero, who looks like he'll be #5 in the rotation, but I don't know that the bullpen has improved at all.

Morrow seems to have consistency issues, I don't think Buerhle and Dickey take well to moving to the AL east, and Josh Johnson is a bit of a variable as well. There could be a ton of upside in the Johnson/Dickey top of the rotation, but I just don't see them as sure things.

Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing. A ton of strikeouts, as TL said, and also quite a few guys who haven't proven themselves to be consistently good. Also some health question marks. If Dickey, Morrow, and Cabrera can approach last year's success, and Johnson, Morrow, and Reyes can stay healthy, and Lawrie can continue to progress, they could be very good. That's a lot of very big "ifs" though.

Troy Loney wrote:Morrow seems to have consistency issues, I don't think Buerhle and Dickey take well to moving to the AL east, and Josh Johnson is a bit of a variable as well. There could be a ton of upside in the Johnson/Dickey top of the rotation, but I just don't see them as sure things.

Morrow is very solid as long as he stays healthy. He was by far the Jays' best pitcher last year.

I hope you're right. Rogers finally gave the green light to spend and Anthopolous ran with it.

I'm definitely pulling for the Blue Jays to win that division. But with that team, I see a lot of solo home runs and strike outs in the lineup. The bullpen doesn't look very good, and there are some guys in the rotation with some control problems.

It sucks, I bought a Jays hat last year because that is my favorite logo (with Cincy a close 2nd) in baseball. Of course, they get good now and it looks like I jumped on the wagon.

Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing. A ton of strikeouts, as TL said, and also quite a few guys who haven't proven themselves to be consistently good. Also some health question marks. If Dickey, Morrow, and Cabrera can approach last year's success, and Johnson, Morrow, and Reyes can stay healthy, and Lawrie can continue to progress, they could be very good. That's a lot of very big "ifs" though.

They looked like a wildcard contender last year until Morrow, Bautista, and Lawrie got hurt. I can't see them not making playoffs with these changes, but it's a whole different beast beyond that.

Troy Loney wrote:I'm not a fan of this Liriano pickup. It's terrible to have a guy loading the basepaths with walks every game. Hopefully Martin helps alleviate the stealing free for all that took place last year, but that can't all have been on Barajas last year right? I can really see the bottom 3 in this rotation taxing the hell out of the bulpen again in the first half and setting the team up another poorous second half.

This probably belongs in the Pirates thread, but that's a good point on the bottom of the rotation killing the bullpen. Starting pitching needs to have control and be efficient and it's tough to see that happening with JMac and Liriano. Karstens can give you 6-7 IP/start but his health is a concern.

I'm really curious to see who's in the rotation come April 1st. This first month or so is going to be huge as they have no easy series in April outside of the Cubs.

Troy Loney wrote:Morrow seems to have consistency issues, I don't think Buerhle and Dickey take well to moving to the AL east, and Josh Johnson is a bit of a variable as well. There could be a ton of upside in the Johnson/Dickey top of the rotation, but I just don't see them as sure things.

Morrow was putting a good season together last year and got hurt. If he's healthy, I think he's gonna be real good for them. I'm counting on it actually and added him to my fantasy team.