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I think the problem is that non-Americans judge the candidates based on foreign policy, while Americans (understandably) choose more or less based on internal policies. I can understand that Obama is the lesser of two evils (that is if you accept the idea that there are only 2 choices) but I cannot get my head around all the celebrations for a man who, to all intents and purposes, takes an active part in extra-judiciary assassinations of foreign nationals (or criminals or whatever you want to call them) through drones... If this was any other head of state (imagine Iran's),everyone would be screaming 'violations of human rights' etc.

What human rights? Or did you not notice that people kill each other all the time? It's just not cool when a drone does it then?

This is not new American policy, we've been doing the same thing with cruise missiles and special forces insertions for decades.

I think the problem is that non-Americans judge the candidates based on foreign policy, while Americans (understandably) choose more or less based on internal policies. I can understand that Obama is the lesser of two evils (that is if you accept the idea that there are only 2 choices) but I cannot get my head around all the celebrations for a man who, to all intents and purposes, takes an active part in extra-judiciary assassinations of foreign nationals (or criminals or whatever you want to call them) through drones... If this was any other head of state (imagine Iran's),everyone would be screaming 'violations of human rights' etc.

"Fuck you Americans! Uncultured, crass Americans! We hate all of you! Fu- the Germans are here! Hello Americans! We love you!"

NalanoH. Wildmoon
Director of the Friends of Nalano PAC
Attorney at Lawl
"His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

We don't have autonomous robots flying around dropping bombs on people, this isn't a terminator film.. yet.

And that pilot is located in Afghanistan or even in the US, kilometers away from the target he is going to bomb - The target aquisition is also done by someone who just looks at aerial photos or videos - and thus, mistakes are made, quite commonly.

As for the cold war, Europe was involved in that as well.

I know, and ... wait. Please don't call the European continent "europe". This continent does not have a centralized goverment like that yet. However, many european countries have been involved in many of the more... questionable stuff going on, such as Vietnam (However, there quite a few countries that were not).

That does not mean they shouldn't be called out on it, and that does not mean that the USA should not be called out on their questionable ethics when it comes to foreign policy.

I'd like to thank my fellow Americans who helped pass initiatives to legalize marijuana and gay marriage in select states, and who opposed extremist candidates like Akin and Mourdock. Now if only old white guys would stop voting for old white guys en masse...

And that pilot is located in Afghanistan or even in the US, kilometers away from the target he is going to bomb - The target aquisition is also done by someone who just looks at aerial photos or videos - and thus, mistakes are made, quite commonly.

The only way to perfect target acquisition without any loss of innocent life is not to attack at all.

Originally Posted by Grizzly

You used to be so cool in the Second World War :(.

The cold war... changed you.

Says somebody from a region that's grown complacent with letting their collective defense and international intervention largely be handled by... us.

NalanoH. Wildmoon
Director of the Friends of Nalano PAC
Attorney at Lawl
"His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

The only way to perfect target acquisition without any loss of innocent life is not to attack at all.

I have no idea how much this was reported on internationally, but the Germans bombed an oil truck in Afghanistan, killing lots of civilians. It cost the two highest ranking members of the army their jobs, and that wasn't even a drone strike.
The reality of war means that targetting will never be done by the pilot, so whether or not you use drones only matters in quantity. At least for me, it has no worse moral implications than bombing, for instance.
Edit: I should probably add that I'd like to see bombing of places with "suspected terrorists" not happening at all.

"Fuck you Americans! Uncultured, crass Americans! We hate all of you! Fu- the Germans are here! Hello Americans! We love you!"

This is wrong on so many levels I m not even gonna start.

I m sorry if US foreign policy is unpopular outside of the US, but well it is. However this was not an attack on all Americans, it's just something that I was genuinely thinking about during the elections.

@Hypernetic: what human right? Maybe this: 'Everyone has the right to life, liberty and the security of person.' I know in war people die, but this is not a normal war, it's government-sanctioned assassination. My problem is that Obama has made it 'cool', it's not a covert op anymore, it's something mainstream now and you can read about it in the papers.

My primary problem with all this though (apart from the collateral damage etc), is why someone should have the right to decide who lives and who dies (whether by cruise missile/drone/helicopter attack or whatever) and that his person and his staff are accountable to no one basically. We don't know how they make the decisions, how they compile their lists etc etc. For a country that has gone to war so many times 'to spread democracy and human rights', I think it's hugely problematic.

@Kadayi: who funded the Taliban in the '80's when they were fighting against Russia?

Just a heads up, I can't say if it's the same worldwide, but hardly anyone that I know here in Brazil believes in the rhetoric that the US is invading other countries to "liberate" them or to "spread democracy, fight injustice and be a paladin of love and rainbows to make the world a better place". I'm quite surprised whenever I see an American who believes that, really. This bravado of acting like they're the world police really harms the country's image.

That said, I'm glad Obama won. He's far from perfect, the democratic party in general is a band of wussies who get slapped around by the crazy extremists on the republican side... but they're still the lesser of two evils. And if the republicans had won, our own presidential elections in 2014 would be that much worse. Our conservative candidates mimicked much of the worst parts of the 2008 republican campaign in 2010, leading to one of the most despicable campaigns in our recent history. If Mitt "I am the 1%" Romney's tactics had worked, this would be even worse the next time.