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[3.5] Otyugh Hole: Who uses it? Why? How?

I've seen a lot of mention of using the special location from Comp Scoundrel called the Otyugh Hole, where folks go and get Iron Will for 3k gold. Okay, so, umm.... what?

Let me explain. I understand from a CharOp perspective. It's a feat for basically free. Iron Will is often a PreReq feat, or at the very least shores up a weak Will save from multiclassing. Okay, I get that.

Who actually uses this in their games? Why do you use it (beyond the obvious above)? How do you justify it in game? Who voluntarily jumps into such a rancid pit and hangs out? This is something I just don't get. How do people use it in their games to justify IN CHARACTER why they're doing this, or is this something you ask your DM to use and have them torture their PC for the feat?

Just a curiosity. Help a man out and tell him what you do and think on the subject.

Re: [3.5] Otyugh Hole: Who uses it? Why? How?

Originally Posted by ErrantX

Why do you use it (beyond the obvious above)? How do you justify it in game? Who voluntarily jumps into such a rancid pit and hangs out?

Both in real life and especially in a fantasy setting, people are willing to do astonishing things for the purpose of power. Heck, people are willing to do amazing things for the /potential/ for power - they just have to think it works.

Now, it states 'But those who survive the ordeal become underworld legends'. I can think of a bunch of people and archetypes who, hearing that, would go attempt that to one-up the previous legend, to prove themselves, to show off, or because the fact that /Joe/ of all people went through it and now everyone's busy watching /Joe/ and nobody's noting your accomplishments just because he went and sat in a pit for awhile...

Beginnings usually happen over trifles... even if it's a coincidence...

Re: [3.5] Otyugh Hole: Who uses it? Why? How?

We're talking people who sale their souls for power here. People who will do unspeakable acts for it. So yes if the place is supposed to give power I can think of many people who wouldn't even hesitate.

Of characters I've played:
Zantar: He'd have gone, this will make me more capable of defending my friends and loved ones against the aberrant hordes I fight against. It will make me smell for a bit. This is gross. And then have gone in. He had 4 good will save classes too so he didn't need another +2.
"Laughing Tom": Ooh smelly hole. Strange magic this be... I will investigate. Ooh cool it made my will stronger... He'd go in just from curiosity, if he knew its effect he'd go to discover how it works.
Erdrick: No. He was a fighter barbarian with a hatred and superstition of magic.
Nent: I forget. Possibly he'd be willing to do it out of curiosity or if other PCs were doing it but he wasn't out for power.
Uskgix (dragon wyrmling cohort the party picked up/raised): I need to get stronger to help my foster parents. Oh gods this is going to stink. Dives in.

Re: [3.5] Otyugh Hole: Who uses it? Why? How?

Originally Posted by Zaydos

Erdrick: No. He was a fighter barbarian with a hatred and superstition of magic.

The Otyugh hole isn't magic. It's simply the worst prison in the world. Spending a week in it scars you irrevocably, and the Iron Will feat represents the mental shields you had to lock around your psyche to avoid going mad.

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Originally Posted by Kalirren

The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.

Originally Posted by golentan

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Re: [3.5] Otyugh Hole: Who uses it? Why? How?

Originally Posted by Heliomance

The Otyugh hole isn't magic. It's simply the worst prison in the world. Spending a week in it scars you irrevocably, and the Iron Will feat represents the mental shields you had to lock around your psyche to avoid going mad.

Then Erdrick would laugh and go right in to prove his manliness; plus mental shields are good, they help you kill vile wizards.

Although Nent almost certaintly wouldn't in that case.

Tom would for fun; can't be worse than his old teacher. Zantar might not. Uskgix would.

Re: [3.5] Otyugh Hole: Who uses it? Why? How?

I would imagine it's the kind of place that, no matter how gung-ho you were going in, afterwards everyone has the "You don't KNOW, man! You weren't THERE!" reaction to their time in it.

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Originally Posted by Kalirren

The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.

Originally Posted by golentan

I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

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Wish building characters for D&D 3.5 was simpler? Try HeroForge Anew! An Excel-based, highly automated character builder. v7.4 now out!

Re: [3.5] Otyugh Hole: Who uses it? Why? How?

I've never bothered to use the otyugh pit on a character (in part because I haven't played a character with a PrC that required Iron Will yet), but I'd probably go with the "magical prison changes a man" backstory.

Though I probably wouldn't allow my PCs to "buy" the location as part of their backstory unless that PC's character was much weaker than the rest of the party. "Free" feats, especially when linked to incantatrix and the like, are not generally something I like to see in-game. Especially when some of my games already give out free feats via corruption/depravity rules.

Re: [3.5] Otyugh Hole: Who uses it? Why? How?

Mmm, I used the Otyugh Hole to pick up Iron Will for my incantatrix. He's a homicidal, pyromaniac githyanki sorcerer specializing in all manner of destructive magics. It's not hard to imagine how such a character might find himself thrown into such an awful prison.

Re: [3.5] Otyugh Hole: Who uses it? Why? How?

So, the associated gp cost is similar to that of a magic location, meaning that the DM subtracts it from the party wealth, correct? Why would the other players agree to lose money so that you could get a feat?

An interesting, if overpowered, concept. Shouldn't it be a permanent +2 bonus on will saves, so that you can train to improve your willpower even more and to avoid using it to qualify for prestige classes?

In Dungeons and Dragons, racism is frowned upon, unless you're playing an elf. Then it's an interesting character trait.

Re: [3.5] Otyugh Hole: Who uses it? Why? How?

Originally Posted by Bibliomancer

So, the associated gp cost is similar to that of a magic location, meaning that the DM subtracts it from the party wealth, correct? Why would the other players agree to lose money so that you could get a feat?

Re: [3.5] Otyugh Hole: Who uses it? Why? How?

Originally Posted by Bibliomancer

So, the associated gp cost is similar to that of a magic location, meaning that the DM subtracts it from the party wealth, correct? Why would the other players agree to lose money so that you could get a feat?

An interesting, if overpowered, concept. Shouldn't it be a permanent +2 bonus on will saves, so that you can train to improve your willpower even more and to avoid using it to qualify for prestige classes?

Re: [3.5] Otyugh Hole: Who uses it? Why? How?

So, the Otyugh Hole is a horrible prison... which stinks... which you have to develop a mental shield against in order to avoid insanity?

Why ever would you have to pay 3k gold for that?

(yes, I'm more concerned with the IC reasons for paying that... Does the GM really go "Yeah, so you murdered that entire orphanage; these guys are throwing you in jail... and charging you 3k to do it!"?)

Re: [3.5] Otyugh Hole: Who uses it? Why? How?

So, the Otyugh Hole is a horrible prison... which stinks... which you have to develop a mental shield against in order to avoid insanity?

Why ever would you have to pay 3k gold for that?

(yes, I'm more concerned with the IC reasons for paying that... Does the GM really go "Yeah, so you murdered that entire orphanage; these guys are throwing you in jail... and charging you 3k to do it!"?)

Could be reparations for your crime, or just subtracted from the next loot pile, or in your backstory.

Re: [3.5] Otyugh Hole: Who uses it? Why? How?

Originally Posted by Glass Mouse

Why ever would you have to pay 3k gold for that?

(yes, I'm more concerned with the IC reasons for paying that... Does the GM really go "Yeah, so you murdered that entire orphanage; these guys are throwing you in jail... and charging you 3k to do it!"?)

You don't. The 3k value is only for WBL purposes. If you create a character above level 1, you can insert the location into your backstory and gain its benefit by sacrificing - out of game, in character building - that amount of money. If you encounter the location in game and the DM is carefully monitoring and controlling the amount of equipment you get, he counts getting the location's benefit as equivalent to 3k gold worth of loot. If you, as a player, visit the location in game and stay there long enough to qualify, you get the benefit free of charge.

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Re: [3.5] Otyugh Hole: Who uses it? Why? How?

So, the Otyugh Hole is a horrible prison... which stinks... which you have to develop a mental shield against in order to avoid insanity?

Why ever would you have to pay 3k gold for that?

(yes, I'm more concerned with the IC reasons for paying that... Does the GM really go "Yeah, so you murdered that entire orphanage; these guys are throwing you in jail... and charging you 3k to do it!"?)

Re: [3.5] Otyugh Hole: Who uses it? Why? How?

Based upon this cost, would it then be reasonable to state that a wondrous item which grants access to a feat when worn should be worth about the same amount?

I've always wondered why a crafter couldn't install a feat into an item for the wearer/bearer's use. I've never found any rules for it at any rate. The metamagic rods might have been a good baseline, but they are so very specific in their functions that I felt they didn't make a very good baseline.

Re: [3.5] Otyugh Hole: Who uses it? Why? How?

Crystal Mask of Mind Shielding (I forget the exact name, from XPH and MIC) grants a +4 Insight bonus to Will saves for 10,000 GP; that is 5/8th the cost of a cloak of resistance +4 (+4 resistance bonus to all saves). So I'd say a +X Y bonus to Will saves is 5/8ths that of +X resistance bonus to all (and a Y bonus to all is normally double). So 2500 for a +2 to Will saves (with body slot) is fairly reasonable; as this stacks with everything normally it would be slightly higher; I actually had my DM allow a +2 competence bonus to Will saves item.

Re: [3.5] Otyugh Hole: Who uses it? Why? How?

I have used it at character creation, because it helps define the character background and also helps me meet the prerequisites for a few PrCs. As this particular adventurer's origin story is basically "Got kidnapped, got turned into a Spellwarped, escaped her captor", starting off with Iron Will but a lot less equipment than her comrades makes sense.

Originally Posted by Glass Mouse

So, the Otyugh Hole is a horrible prison... which stinks... which you have to develop a mental shield against in order to avoid insanity?

Why ever would you have to pay 3k gold for that?

You don't - you get thrown into that dark pit and have to fight your way out, but you don't get any worthwhile loot from the things you kill. You don't pay 3,000 gp for the privilige, you just lose 3,000 gp in opportunity cost.

Alternatively (the way I treated it), you get your ~3,000 gp of stuff confiscated and it becomes part of some NPC's treasure.