March 18, 2008

I can no more disown [Rev. Dr. Wright] than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother – a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe.

A careful look at this incident as Obama described it on pp. 88-91 of Dreams from My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance (which I reviewed in 2007) shows that Obama is slandering his elderly grandmother to make Rev. Dr. Wright look better. Obama's white grandmother, Madelyn Dunham, who was raising him and earning most of the money in the family while his own mother was off in Indonesia working on her 1067 page dissertation on peasant blacksmithing, rode the bus each morning to her job as a bank executive. One day, the 16-18 year old Obama wakes up to an argument between his grandmother and grandfather. She didn't want to ride the bus because she had been hassled by a bum at the bus stop. She tells him:

"Her lips pursed with irritation. 'He was very aggressive, Barry. Very aggressive. I gave him a dollar and he kept asking. If the bus hadn't come, I think he might have hit me over the head."

So why didn't Obama's lefty grandfather want to drive his own wife to work? Because to help his wife avoid the hostile, dangerous panhandler would be morally wrong, because the potential mugger was ... Well, I'll let Sen. Obama tell the story:

"He turned around and I saw that he was shaking. 'It is a big deal. It's a big deal to me. She's been bothered by men before. You know why she's so scared this time. I'll tell you why. Before you came in, she told me the fella was black.' He whispered the word. 'That's the real reason why she's bothered. And I just don't think that right.'

"The words were like a fist in my stomach, and I wobbled to regain my composure. In my steadiest voice, I told him that such an attitude bothered me, too, but reassured him that Toot's fears would pass and that we should give her a ride in the meantime. Gramps slumped into a chair in the living room and said he was sorry he had told me. Before my eyes, he grew small and old and very sad. I put my hand on his shoulder and told him that it was all right, I understood.

"We remained like that for several minutes, in painful silence. Finally he insisted that he drive Toot after all, and I thought about my grandparents. They had sacrificed again and again for me. They had poured all their lingering hopes into my success. Never had they given me reason to doubt their love; I doubted if they ever would. And yet I knew that men who might easily have been my brothers could still inspire their rawest fear."

Then Obama drives over for counseling to the house of his grandfather's friend Frank, an old black Communist Party USA member, who tells him:

"What I'm trying to tell you is, your grandma's right to be scared. She's at least as right as Stanley is. She understands that black people have a reason to hate. That's just how it is. For your sake, I wish it were otherwise. But it's not. So you might as well get used to it."

"Frank closed his eyes. His breathing slowed until he seemed to be asleep. I thought about waking him, then decided against it and walked back to the car. The earth shook under my feet, ready to crack open at any moment. I stopped, trying to steady myself, and knew for the first time that I was utterly alone."

Man, what a family full of drama queens! And now Obama is equating his own grandma, who was the main breadwinner in this dysfunctional family circus (and who is still alive, living in the Honolulu highrise where this scene took place), with Rev. Dr. God Damn America.

Classy.

The Washington Monthly's liberal blogger Kevin Drum, who voted for Obama, commented about this scene and others:

"Obama routinely describes himself feeling the deepest, most painful emotions imaginable (one event is like a "fist in my stomach," for example, and he "still burned with the memory" a full year after a minor incident in college), but these feelings seem to be all out of proportion to the actual events of his life, which are generally pretty pedestrian."

So, in summary, let's look at how Obama smeared his own elderly but very much alive grandmother, calling her:

"a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe."

Well, no, according to Obama's 1995 book, it is not at all true that she "once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street." Instead, she once confessed her fear of one aggressive black beggar who didn't pass by her but instead confronted her, demanded money, and then gave her -- an intelligent, level-headed woman who had worked her way up to a mid-level corporate management position -- good reason to believe he would have violently mugged her if her bus hadn't pulled up.

If this was some doofus politician like Bush or Biden who retold the story in a misleading fashion, you might view it as just their usual struggle with using the English language to get across what they really kind of, sort of mean. But Obama is so superb with words that it's perfectly reasonable to hold him accountable for choosing to slander his own living grandmother for his political advantage.

88 comments:

Anonymous
said...

It's always bugged me that the focus of his obsession and attention was a man who abandoned him as young child, and not his white grandparents who raised him. But this is just contemptible. His grandmother was afraid of a black thug once, so naturally she's tantamount to that race hustling pastor Wright? Obama's a clown.

Thanks for this, Steve. I find Obama's description of feeling alone to be affecting.

But it does raise a number of issues.

Why didn't he go with his grandmother to the bus-stop and "discuss" with the beggar that this woman was his grandmother and that he should behave? Did he want to be black too much to be able to perform such an act? Or was he possibly too young? Did he hold what he wanted to be his race above his family?

And one wonders what the grandfather and Obama would have done if the beggar had been white? Or Asian? Someone should ask him.

The many modes of misunderstanding between the races will continue to spiral out of control until the differences in average IQ are accepted and acknowledged. If the discussion can be sophisticated enough to acknowledge that the averages do not preclude brilliant individuals like Obama, perhaps we can make some progress.

Granny said she was afraid to bring the mangoes into town to be sold. She had been bothered by a man. She wanted granddad to give her a ride on his ox. Grampa refused. "She's been bothered by men before. But this time...it was a Kikuyu..." I felt like I had been forcibly circumcised! I went to see my friend Mposo. "Yes she's right to be scared of the Kikuyu." he said."They have reason to hate your parents,cuz they are Luo!" I felt like my world was falling apart,like one of those Indonesian blacksmiths mommy was always going on about...I felt as if my soul was being attacked with a spiritual machete!I felt totally alone. "WTF!?!?" A monkey shat on me. Figures,I thought... -Josh?

Well, it would appear that Obama is really his grandfather’s grandson and his mother’s son as well (as they both come off as bad people, flawed characters). If only there was more of his grandmother in Obama.

Let us not forget what Jesse Jackson let slip in an interview with Newsweek in the 1990s: Jackson stated that he was afraid when he heard young men approaching from behind him on the street…unless they were white, then he wasn’t afraid.

So, Obama should condemn Jesse Jackson as well. But I won’t wait for that kind of…change.

One of the stereotype-busting things about this story is that the apparent hero, the only one willing to tell young Obama the truth instead of comforting PC lies, is the Communist. It's been quite some time since I've read a real-life story where the Communist was the hero....

Lol, what kind of dirty S.O.B. does something like this? (Has so little regard for his own grandmother, who raised him; using her as nothing more than a prop in his Othello delusions?)

Obama's making it worse, which leads me to wonder if the people who suggested in the last week or so that Obama doesn't know any better might be right; he really doesn't see the big deal with Wright, doesn't understand how shabbily he's treated his grandmother, or how deeply pathological his racial ethos is.

He was a young man offered a writing opportunity he’d be nuts to refuse. But what did he have to say? Hardly anything. So he did what young writers have to do, they wring pathos and significance out of nothing. Plus he was clearly giving the audience what they wanted. So how do we know that’s not where the drama queen begins and ends? The real Obama could easily know this is slop, but he’s just saying what works…

Obama can't "disown" Rev. Wright for the simple reason that you only "disown" a family relation.The fact is, he *can* disassociate, denounce, disagree with and stop attending Wright's church. He didn't choose his Grandmother, but he chose his pastor, his wedding presider, the baptiser of his children, the benificee of $25,000 in the past two years, his honorary campaign advisor, etc. It's ridiculous for him to equate Wright with his family and his race. Trent Lott says something nice about a segregationalist and his career is over. Obama says many nice things about Wright who is a racist and may be elected president. How is that?

There is *never* any acknowledgement that blacks commit the majority of robberies and murders in this country despite being less than 12% of the population.

With respect to this taboo, its power is incredible. Western Civilization has been on an incredibly powerful diet of immunosuppressants. It is exactly analogous to the immune system. You have foreign, often damaging elements...but the immune system is being turned off, with all self/nonself distinctions destroyed.

As with South Africa, the taboo can and will kill this civilization if a cure is not found.

PS: We need to look at who is creating the taboo as well, and why. A hint: read the Forward instead of the New York Times, especially articles like this one:

http://www.forward.com/articles/11496/

It boils down to the fact that the #1 prime directive of virtually all Ashkenazi Jews is to resist anti-Semitism. No matter what their political leaning, this is something that they can and do agree on.

This, btw, is why there is no "conspiracy" in the usual sense. It is also why the usual riposte of "two Jews, three opinions" is simply a diversion, much as Obama attempts to divert a discussion of race into anger over class. The point is that all Jews -- whether neocon or radical feminist or Chomskyite or bien pensant liberal -- oppose anti-Semitism. Many of them devote their careers to opposing it verbally and financially.

In practice the resistance to anti-Semitism means resisting any and all distinction between Jews and the host population. And the ideological arguments propounded for this purpose are then repurposed to argue for the equality of the lazy and the industrious, of blacks and whites, of women and men, of gays and straights, etc.

But it all comes back to the taboo on distinguishing between Jews and non-Jews for *any* purpose, even surveys. (Note for example that the ADL successfully lobbied to remove religion questions from the Census...but are now pushing to put it back on to get stats on the number of Muslims in the US).

The Jewish community understands the power of numbers. Overrepresentation of whites qua whites is prima facie discrimination. But overrepresentation of *Jewish* whites? It's not even permissible to point out who *is* a Jew. Because then one could ask whether the messages being communicated to the majority are actually coming from the majority, and one would start to see that Jews are the #1 group behind the suppression of self/nonself distinctions.

PSS: The most important and under remarked line in Obama's speech is where he talks about Israel. It's VERY important to him that the Chicago Jewish community not put him in the Farrakhan box. Jews are the majority of the Democratic party's donors (as reported in the WaPo -- google it), and Obama is done if they turn on him or even get cold feet.

I went to see Tim Wise, a professional "anti-racist", speak one time. He grew up in a mixed family as well -- half Jewish and half southern gentile.

At one point, he talked about how his liberal, white southern grandma, who had always supported him, had uttered racial slurs while severely incapacitated by Alzheimer's disease.

Mr. Wise said that at that point he knew she was always a racist underneath and a moral hypocrite and failure, much in the way that Obama tarred his own loving, supportive grandmother for being afraid of young black men.

Denouncing one's own, loving grandmother, has to be about the lowest possible thing a man can do. It strikes me as so despicable that since then I've always thought Tim Wise to be a disgusting man.

OK, so the first mistake was belonging to Wright's church for 20+ years. That's forgiveable to some people. But to blame a sweet smart grandma who was apparently your only relative around with any sense or sense of responsibility for your choice of a racist preacher? That's the last straw. It'll make McCain's commercials hit so much harder when they start to air.

It's the little added bit of detail that makes the whole story that much harder for Americans to accept.

Obama's speech today was thoughtful, nuanced, and genuine if nothing else. Contrast that with the petty and reductive "Obama hates his grandma!" comments peddled by the likes of Sailer readers. I'm also fond of the constant "if a white person had said that..." whining, as if it's news to anyone here that whites and blacks are different, and are correspondingly treated differently. Obama's at least honest about who he is and how he feels. As Steve mentioned himself, he could have easily joined a more politically expedient black church.

For a blogger that purports to raise the level of discussion of race in this country, you sure like to engage in disingenuous pandering to resentful whites. What's clear is that Obama is an idealistic (and sharply intelligent) man who wants to do what he thinks is best for this country, and in the process he has inspired millions of apathetic young people to become involved in the political process. Why hate? From the commentary I've seen, you'd think his platform is an anti-white pogrom.

Call me an Obama groupie, but I just don't think the fear and resentment that's popular here accomplishes much. But go on treating Obama like Mugabe if it gets you through the day...

Hawaii in the '70s sounds like Vermont in the '80s and '90s-- a place to which liberals can run off so their racial ideals can survive without challenge.

How many blacks were there in Honolulu 30 years ago? When I lived there as a kid 10 years before that, you were more likely to be hit by a Chinese family in a Model T than to meet a black man on the street. (Guess which happened to us.) The main racial issue in our neighborhood was the poor Asians' resentment of well-off haole mainlanders living in a swank apartment complex built on "slum clearance", a/k/a their old neighbors' digs.

Obama comes from a long line of white nuts. His Dunham ancestor was driven from Massachusetts as a troublemaker and went to New Jersey-- changing his name in the process-- and his progeny to Virginia, where they married into westward-bound Appalachian stock. The mother of Stanley Dunham-- Stanley Armour, not his daughter Stanley Anne, i.e., Barack's great-grandmother-- commited suicide at 26.

Steve, how do you get up in the morning knowing that you're one of the most well-read journalists out there but that you're not taken remotely seriously by the "establishment"? I mean seriously, you knew exactly where to go for this story while almost every other journalists in America likely has almost no knowledge at all about Obama outside of whatever speech he gave that day. Hey, at least you have us.

For the record, since watching that clip of Obama's speech where Granny was dragged in I've been bothered by what I'm sure bothers us all:

"Regardless of the justification for such or lack thereof, the fact remains that Black American males are superbly violent (against Whites, each other and others) when compared with members of other ethnicities and that people therefore have every logical reason on Earth to fear them more than they do your standard-issue non-black."

It enrages me that it required no gall or bravery for Obama to even mention this nonsense. He knows that he has no reason to fear that Federal statistics will be tossed back in his face at his next Town Hall meeting or Press Conference.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not condemning Blacks for their violence (or condoning it, either), I'm simply pointing to the fact that reality appears to be less relevant to the masses than cliches. And that bugs the hell out of me!

fishbulb.. I was leaning heavily in favor of Obama (presently in favor of no one) but while his speech was very well written, I dont see why he had to bring his grandmother in or even mention Ferraro. It is perfectly valid to fear young black males in dangerous areas, far more so than (say) chinese males. The ratio of violent crime across these two groups is over 30:1. To his credit, Obama did mention valid causes of white resentment and he clearly recognizes that OJ was guilty. Perhaps it is too optimistic to expect him to reach the conclusion that its not just racism that accounts for the troubles caused by and of the AA underclass.

It is very sobering/troubling that neither Clinton nor McCain will touch race related issues for fear of being tagged racist. And neither will the mainstream media. Perhaps Obama in due time will?

Obama is clearly very bright and very articulate. But his continued association (for over 2 decades) with Pastor Wright suggests that his decision making is flawed. As Steve points out, Obama seems to believe that lack of civil rights is what is holding AAs behind. Steve is one of the very few who has consistently analyzed Obama's background and one doesnt have to be anti Obama (as I said, I was clearly pro) to appreciate his insights, even after discounting biases.

Anon Jews like Chomsky support anti-Semitism. You must have missed his photo op with Hezbollah and Nasrallah.

There are a bunch of self-hating Jews who support anti-Semitism. Probably over-inflated in numbers by being represented in the Academy and Media where anti-Semitism is practically required.

As for identifying the number of Jews in the US, that's tricky. It's both a matrilineal descent and religious conversion (which though rare DOES happen). That can be quite tricky. For example is the actress Sarah Michelle Gellar Jewish? Her mother is Jewish, she is married to a Latino Catholic (Freddy Prinze Jr.) and professes no religion. If they had kids, what religion would they be? Catholic? Jewish? What ethnicity (again, Jews are both ethnicity and religion).

There are good methodological reasons to not try and count Jews in the US -- it's too hard!

As for PC-Multiculturalism-Diversity etc., the people who push that are rich white WASPS. I've worked in Education and Fortune 500 companies and small companies. Believe me PC is all WASP central.

Why didn't he go with his grandmother to the bus-stop and "discuss" with the beggar that this woman was his grandmother and that he should behave? Did he want to be black too much to be able to perform such an act? Or was he possibly too young? Did he hold what he wanted to be his race above his family?

I'm starting to have a rethink about this as well. It's kinda understandable that Jews fight anti-Semitism, even at the expense of screwing the culture they live in. The key to the PC cult lies with the churches. And the WASP establishment is still driven by the mainline churches, because that is where they get their spiritual ideas from. The clergy is by default open-borders. It has to do with the Sermon on the Mount. Its a tough cookie for conservatives, but it does seem that the gospel is nore liberal than we like to know.

How much of hard core anti-Semitism is coming from Jews angry at their own parents? Has anyone watched YouTube videos of good old Kevin MacDonald? I'll be damned if the guy doesn't look and speak like Dustin Hoffman. And I'll be damned if I didn't hear a little touch of a Lawng Aisland accent here and there in his conversation.

Even the name seems a little corny and over the top. Mac Donald? As in, Old Mac Donald Had a Farm?

"...you sure like to engage in disingenuous pandering to resentful whites."

It comes from several generations of being the victims of black crime and seeing formerly flourishing, working class neighborhoods decimated by Section 8. There is no place else for whites to voice their experiences. The mainstream press won't without twisting our stories. Everyone notices how quickly black on white crime stories disappear in the mainstream media once the perp is identified. Who are you kidding--OHB's speech was "nuanced"--he compares a justifiably frightened old lady raising him to a "black" pastor who sounds like he would excuse and even congratulate those who would have murdered her? Living in a heavily black area, and having been victimized and had family and friends (often absurdly "liberal") murdered or otherwise victimized by blacks, I can see how rhetoric like this encourages violence against whites. Quite frankly, that's my main concern. It's more likely to get me and the people I care about, than some foreign "terrorist."

Obama, Wright, et al. are ideologues - fanatics - meaning they have a "vision" and bend their perception of reality to cater to it. In Obama's case, the vision amounts to "the meaning of life is the struggle against Whitey." He might put this more politely for public consumption: the meaning of life is the struggle against institutionalized racism, or some such.

Accordingly, if he hears of a hard-working, responsible, middle-class grandmother accosted by a bum and panhandler, and expressing discomfort over the incident - then he isn't likely to look at it as anybody with sense would look at it. That is, as simply an instance of a low-life bothering a good woman.

No, he fits it into his "vision." "This old bitch is deeply convicted of sin, brothers and sisters - halleujuh."

Even though the grandmother in question is his own.

We're all convicted of "sin" in Obama's little passion play, if we're white, that is.

As for identifying the number of Jews in the US, that's tricky. It's both a matrilineal descent and religious conversion (which though rare DOES happen). That can be quite tricky. For example is the actress Sarah Michelle Gellar Jewish? Her mother is Jewish, she is married to a Latino Catholic (Freddy Prinze Jr.) and professes no religion. If they had kids, what religion would they be? Catholic? Jewish? What ethnicity (again, Jews are both ethnicity and religion).

The question is not tricky. You are tricky. We have been through this here innumerable times already. The children of a Jewish woman are Jews.

I heard Juan Williams mention the granny bit on NPR today as a troubling aspect of the speech. Interesting that he, apparently a black man with brains and integrity, would bring it up while the WhiterPerson NPR anchor interviewing him (Rene Montaigne) tried to downplay in support of Obama.

By the way, I love NPR because it's pleasant and informative, which is more than you can say about 95% of our news media, but on issues of race it's PC to the max. Recently, they did a show about the prevalence of STDs in teenage girls, during which the fact came up that 50% of black teenage girls have had STDs, as opposed to 20% of all teenage girls. The idea that this statistically huge difference could be due to differing behavior was quickly dismissed out of hand by the two nervous WhiterPeople hosts, as they moved on to more acceptable topics.

Yes, NPR is WhiterPeople central, with all the strengths and weaknesses that implies.

You do realize that Obama has more life experiences than he's included in one of his books, right? Maybe you should keep that in mind before using one of his books to compare to his speech and than accuse him of slander.

"The clergy is by default open-borders. It has to do with the Sermon on the Mount. Its a tough cookie for conservatives, but it does seem that the gospel is nore liberal than we like to know."

It's not the Sermon on the Mount; it's the Pentateuch's teaching on hospitality to sojourners. And something that doesn't go mentioned is that the Pentateuch also required sojourners to observe the local religious holidays and customs.

Another major difference is that immigration back then was a matter of private property, not government policy. And when immigration and cultural pollution got to be too much, the Jewish judge Nehemiah physically beat the Jewish men who had allowed their families to outbreed with neighboring tribes and made them swear to racial purity.

So why didn't Obama's lefty grandfather not want to drive his own wife to work? Because to help his wife avoid the hostile, dangerous panhandler would be morally wrong...

The defining element of modern liberalism is the willingness to risk other people's lives for your principles and to spend other people's money for your charitable urges.

And the WASP establishment is still driven by the mainline churches, because that is where they get their spiritual ideas from.

The WASP establishment doesn't even go to church anymore.

Its a tough cookie for conservatives, but it does seem that the gospel is nore liberal than we like to know.

The gospel is whatever the ministers, pastors, and priests make of it. Some emphasize "compassion." Others like to emphasize obedience to commandments, like chastity. Some use it to support their political views and/or the financial interests of themselves, their friends, or their relatives.

roberthume sed..."Why didn't he go with his grandmother to the bus-stop and "discuss" with the beggar that this woman was his grandmother and that he should behave? "

Gee, that's a novel idea. Next time my relatives get murdered by black thugs on a farm in South Africa I should go to the local squatter camp and "discuss" the issue with the black illegals from Zimbabwe who should put their AK47's away and start behaving.

Every time you post that story, I focus more on Mr. Stanley Dunham. You ask why he didn't want to drive his wife to the bus stop. But that isn't the right question-Senator Obama wasn't there when his grandfather decided to refuse to give Mrs Dunham a lift, and his only source of information is a remark Mr Dunham made in the aftermath of a heated quarrel. You should ask "How did Mr Dunham explain to his grandson his decision to have a fight with his wife rather than drive her to the bus stop?"

I imagine a dialogue like this. Young Barack asks, "Gran'dad, why not just drive her to the bus stop?" He's about to say, "Because I don't want to haul my lazy ass out of the house one second sooner than I absolutely have to." He realizes "Oh, can't say that- better come up with something else... uh... geez, i hate it when he looks at me that way..." Then he busts out a surefire winner: "Because she's a racist!" Barack then leaves him alone, reducing by one the number of people demanding that he get out of his favorite chair and put on his shoes.

Obama, may inspire but he is not an idealist in any way. He is an old school liberal from the Chicago machine. He is surrounded by Daley people and is far to dirty. The only reason he did not denounce the preacher is that he can not! That preacher represents his voting base.

Ok, I understand there are race divisions in this country and I, as the child of white middle class parents will never understand the drama and problems of a mixed race child, and the conflict and turmoil and unspoken injuries real and perceived inflicted upon poor Barry Obama.

What I don't understand is why all this means we owe him the presidency. There are a lot of ills in this country. I don't we should elect a president based on payback to one ethnic group or race in an attempt to "heal" divisions. I don't think it works anyway. It just makes them worse.

Obama, far from helping heal racial divisions in this country, has set them back with his cynical pander, demagogue and guilt politics.

He may have moved the date when a person with a black parent can be elected in this country without stirring up racial rancor back decades. And he did it for his own selfish pride and ambition.

Western Civilization has been on an incredibly powerful diet of immunosuppressants. It is exactly analogous to the immune system. You have foreign, often damaging elements...but the immune system is being turned off, with all self/nonself distinctions destroyed.

It's worse than that. The immune system has been re-programmed to attack "self" for the benfit of "non-self". The system has not been turned off; it has been inverted.

After twenty years in that church what racial divide did Obama bridge, what understanding did he bring to the rest of the flock, what positive influence did he have on Pastor Wright? If he had no affect there, why should we believe he can help "heal" our nation? Especially a nation which has done wonders in improving itself.jimM

Since politicians are congential liars, Obama, if challenged by somebosy who actually read his books, or at least has read this post, will dodge by say ng that tthis incident wasn't what he was refering to. It was something else, something he didn't use in his book. Wanna bet?

headache: The Gospel says to obey the laws of the country you live in, insofar as they don't require you to worship idols and stuff. "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's." And I can't seem to find the place where Jesus says, "Form ye political action committees to get laws passed to make everyone behave the way you think they ought to". You will find nothing in the Bible or in the Sermon on the Mount about "open borders". You will find a lot about individuals doing whatever good they can for other individuals, and meekly submitting themselves to unjust laws, and very little about lobbying the Roman Senate to allow the Alemannic tribes over the Rhine.

If I found an illegal immigrant in the desert, my duty as a Christian would be to feed him and heal him; it would not be to lobby Congress to make him legal, nor to give him a job and break the laws I live under.

Why didn't he go with his grandmother to the bus-stop and "discuss" with the beggar that this woman was his grandmother and that he should behave? Did he want to be black too much to be able to perform such an act? Or was he possibly too young? Did he hold what he wanted to be his race above his family?

Or is he maybe just a pussy?

3/18/2008

Or more likely, the entire story is a lie he made up, awkwardly and stupidly.

Or more likely, the entire story is a lie he made up, awkwardly and stupidly.

Why would he make up alie that makes him look like a pussy? Oh yeah, he's a left-liberal.

Still, what's with these Democrats who lie so badly they make themselves look bad, like Obama and Kerry? If the Dem's are gonna run a liar, let them at least find another one as skilled as Bill Clinton.

Give me a small, diet-sized break. I'm not even granting the actions and words attributed to his gramma even happened. But comparing the very private opinions and utterances of your relative, who raised you, are very unfair put up against the very public utterances of this minister.

I love my grandmother more than life itself, and would defend her against any slander or even disrespect with my dying breath. For Obama to compare her as the equivalent of this insane hate-monger is beyond disgusting. It tells you a lot about the guy. He obviously used her because it would evoke verisimilitude and credence and emotion to his tall tale.

Using your grandmother like that, and in a disparaging way, is just beyond the pale for me.

Before all this, I did disagree with Obama on almost every political issue, but I did feel some of the excitement, and I have to say it, pride, in the fact that our country might be represented by a black man. I did feel the "that'll show 'em" Obama invokes, because I feel I am not racist and I don't want our country to be.

And I considered him to be honest in one thing at least, that he would transcend race and we could vote for him as a man, not just a black man.

With these Wright revelations, as well as the disgusting opinions voiced by Obama's wife and the gist of her writings, I no longer feel he is a good nor honest person.

And I also feel he is not a step away from the race hustling model of Jackson and Sharpton. I think he's found a slicker way to package it. I'm just glad he was exposed before he rose much further. Despite lib apologists wishing this away, I think he has doomed himself with white middle class Dems. The question is, is it too late to deny him the nomination.

I think the Dems face real disaster this election, down ticket as well. McCain has stepped into a perfect storm and will be the next president, more than likely, which is a good thing for our country.

If only either Colin Powell or Condi Rice was a politician. It will be a conservative, who doesn't espouse Wright's victim politics, who will be the first black president.

""""""You do realize that Obama has more life experiences than he's included in one of his books, right?""""""Are you so foolish as to believe that every interaction between Obama and his grandmother is documented in his book?""""""

If this story was such nonsense and yet was worth writing about in his first 1995 bio, are you saying we can't infer anything from the rest of his experiences?

1. He conceded that white men may come from less than privileged, wealthy backgrounds. This is a major departure from Democratic Party orthodoxy.

2. He condemned Rev. Wright's loony statements as unacceptable. This is the first time that I can recall a major Democratic Party candidate plainly rejecting racism and anti-Americanism from a black ally.

If Obama's candidacy continues to create these small moves toward demanding that black politicians move toward the mainstream, then his candidacy will have produced a remarkable gain.

A remarkable tilt toward the assimilation of middle class blacks into the mainstream is occuring here. It's a good thing that Obama is being closely vetted.

Let's see how he responds, and how he carries himself into the general election. If he can succeed in finding a way to place himself so that moderate voters will vote for him, we might see some remarkable changes in American politics.

I'm not saying that I will vote for him, or that I think he is the solution to all our problems. If he survives this close vetting and learns how to remain a viable candidate, some fundamental change will have occurred.

Nobody in this discussion seems to realize that the message is going out to blacks that their racism and their extremism is not permissible in a general presidential election. We're moving forward incrementally in an arena in which any change had previously seemed impossible.

In answer to Reg Caesar, when Obama was living in Honolulu in the mid to late 70s, attending the prestigious Punahou School, few African-Americans were living in Hawaii, except of course for the military who tended to keep to themselves. If any ethnic or racial group was likely to be on the receiving end of some ribbing, it was generally the haoles (the Caucasians) or else the Portagees (the Portugese) and the Pakes (the Chinese), all of which was offered and accepted in great fun as part of the local pride in the mix of cultures and heritage that make up Hawaii. In fact, when Obama was growing up here, it was only a few years after the glory days of the so-called "Fabulous Five" college basketball team at the University of Hawaii, a team that consisted entirely of black players who had been recruited from the mainland. These players became local heroes and were adopted with open arms and hearts into the Hawaii family, the 'ohana. Even to this day, 35 years later, local people remember them and continue to speak of them with great affection and pride. At least three of them have become civic leaders and are prominent in the community. To my mind, it would have been unthinkable for local people of that era to be widely and openly prejudiced against African-Americans. If it happened, I can only believe it was the rare exception, not the rule.

Whether or not the story in his book is the basis for the Grandmother line in his speech, the story was written as a parable about whites and the inescapable "if you are white you are a racist, whether you know it or not."

That is how the story fits his speech.

Obama may not have meant to reveal this, but it is now front and center based on his own very personalized view of both "white racism" and "black racism".

He sounds like he is using a template from the pages of Al Quaeda.

"They made me do it."

His story also describes how his grandfather had tied himself into knots such that he was paralyzed and incapable of protecting his wife.

Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. He buried the Wright issue. The entire "race in America" speech was meant as a complete distraction from the crazy racist radical anti-American minister he's embraced for 20 years. Not 1% of the speech was devoted to his patronizing of Wright's church. He tried to turn the focus onto how how blacks have been aggrieved. If anyone missed then you've been fooled by this man.

The question is not tricky. You are tricky. We have been through this here innumerable times already. The children of a Jewish woman are Jews. - David

According to whom? If it's according to religious law then that's fine - if you believe in that law. If not it's irrelevant. I would think the child of a 100% Jewish woman and 100% non-Jewish man to be 50% Jewish, ethnically speaking. There is nothing more you can say factually and objectively than that.

Just a random comment about the grandma/Wright comparison. The way it looks to me is that Obama actually has had a really close relationship with Rev. Wright, really has felt at home in that church and community. To disown Wright and his church might feel very much like disowning his own grandmother.

I sometimes cringe at the political/social positions of the Catholic Church, but I would have a hard time walking away from the Church over those teachings, or even over the awful sex scandals that came out a few years back. Turning my back on my church and parish would feel kind of like walking out on part of my family.

I sometimes cringe at the political/social positions of the Catholic Church, but I would have a hard time walking away from the Church over those teachings, or even over the awful sex scandals that came out a few years back. Turning my back on my church and parish would feel kind of like walking out on part of my family.

Well did your priest ever get up during mass and publicly defend Father O'Flanagan's diddling of your friend's 14-year-old son because back in 1872 someone had a "No Irish Need Apply" sign on their business's front door?

If he did so then I hope you and everyone else walked out. And if he said such things over and over and over your excuse for not doing so would diminish every time.

The way it looks to me is that Obama actually has had a really close relationship with Rev. Wright, really has felt at home in that church and community. To disown Wright and his church might feel very much like disowning his own grandmother.

But Wright isn't his grandmother, or any other close relation to Obama. The relationship is an intellectual one. If Obama cannot distance himself then that's fine from a personal standpoint, but it tells us something about Obama that most people should find disturbing.

We can't read our politician's minds. They lie to us about their views, motives, and positions with unsettling ease. All we can do is look at who they embrace and what they do. If Obama SAYS one thing - that he's a good and tolerant man - but does another - embraces and funds a racist preacher - I have every reason to trust what he does isntead of what he says.

This is a perfect example of Obama's character! He will sacrifice his own 85 yr old grandmother to put out the fire finally exposed to the media. This is ridiculous! Thanks for sharing this! I am sending this to as many people as I can to get the word out. The American public deserves the TRUTH not more of Obama's fiction before it is too late.

The whole pastor thing to me is a non issue. I just assume he doesnt' care what the guy says too much that's just how people talk there. Go to a bar in Denver and you'll hear plenty of crazy talk too, but as a Denver bar guy, I am still a better candidate than most.

Anyway, the craziest thing the guy said, that I got wind of, was that AIDS was some conspiracy. False, but is that much crazier than what Pat Robertson says all the time, that great friend of the Republicans.

The quotes I have seen from Obama, on this site, haven't persuaded me that he's a kook or a kook stooge, or drama queen either for that matter.

It seems like Steve only ever read Obama's book, as opposed to the other candidates. He's a drama queen? Really? I don't get that impression at all. I read the quotes, to me, that's how you write if you're a politician. I don't expect it to be particularly candid. Perhaps he's in a worse pickle because he was trying to go for that straight talk tone.

Do we not agree that he's intelligent and against the disastrous Iraq war? What does McCain offer that's better?

As far as immigration is concerned, way better to have Obama anyway so the Republicans or whatever anti-invite the world representation is left, can better oppose the issue as coming from a hard lefty.

Who do you guys want, McCain or Obama? I'm all for critisizing them both, but I'm still for Obama over McCain.

We can't read our politician's minds. They lie to us about their views, motives, and positions with unsettling ease. All we can do is look at who they embrace and what they do. If Obama SAYS one thing - that he's a good and tolerant man - but DOES another - embraces and funds a racist preacher - I have every reason to trust what he does isntead of what he says.

Bingo. Pay close attention to William's comment, folks. When people talk about "common sense" and "rationality," they mean thinking of this caliber. Thanks, William.

"The Audacity of Hope" describes some tension between Obama's white grandparents. His grandmother earned more than his grandfather (an insurance salesman) and voiced her disapproval of him on that point.

On the one hand, that makes grandfather sound like maybe a lazy or unaccomplished person. Fits with his refusal to drive grandma to the bus stop.

On the other hand, it makes grandma sound like a henpecker. I wonder if she was from money, and he was from lower down the economic totem pole.

That Obama would pick on his grandmother is proof that he is white. For a black person to speak ill of an elder is a major taboo. Obama obviously keeps his cards close to his chest. If he is elected (which seems like a probability these days), he might surprise us. Elected officials do not always deliver what their constituencies expect.

First of all, he didn't "throw his grandma under the bus." If you would place his statements in context, as oppossed to deleting the stuff that came before and after, you'd see that he was praising his grandmother.

Secondly, he said that she confessed her fear of passing black MEN on the street -not that she once feared passing a black MAN. It was a reference to black men in general, not to any one particular incident. There's nothing from the speech to indiciate that Obama was refering to that one instance he talked about in his book.

"The whole pastor thing to me is a non issue. I just assume he doesnt' care what the guy says too much that's just how people talk there. Go to a bar in Denver and you'll hear plenty of crazy talk too, but as a Denver bar guy, I am still a better candidate than most."

This tells me a lot about you. How can you possibly equate the crazy talk you hear in a Denver bar with the 20 year long, close, personal mentoring relationship Obama had with his pastor; who not only counselled him on matters of personal and professional importance, but married him and his wife and baptized both of his children?

You can write off the crazy talk you hear in a bar. But if you continue a close personal relationship with someone who continually spews racially charged hate speach and expose your own young children to this filth, you must either agree with it completely or consider it to be of no importance. How does that square with Obama's recent emphatic denunciations of this hate speech?

Obama was a United States Senator while his pastor was making some of these anti-American statements to his congregation. If Senator Obama so violently disagreed with these outrageous statements, why didn't he have the courage to confront his pastor about them? Why didn't he break off the relationship? It is pretty obvious that Obama is only just now speaking up to save his faltering campaign. I consider him to be completely disingenuous and a moral coward.

he said that she confessed her fear of passing black MEN on the street -not that she once feared passing a black MAN.

That makes a world of difference! It clears her of the suspicion of understanding statistics, and puts her safely and comfortably in the category of fool, or ideologue (another name for fool). She should thank Obama for placing her in this category and clearing her. It is not often that one is personally absolved by a Pope.

Interesting. Obama's grandfather sounds full of white guilt himself -- more interested in political correctness than in his wife's safety. The grandmother said a panhandler kept demanding more and more money from her, till she felt threatened, so she wanted grandfather to drive her to work. Grandfather refused -- because she had also told him the panhandler was Black!?!?!?! And he passes this attitude to the grandchild!Maybe Wright reminds Obama of his grandfather.

This is a link to a long profile of Obama's early Chicago days, including why he chose to settle in Chicago. Good perspective on his attitudes about his white family.

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/Articles/bobamasunlikelypoliticaledu.html[Obama] longed for an experience that connected him to the civil rights era. "In the sit-ins, the marches, the jailhouse songs," he wrote in Dreams, "I saw the African-American community becoming more than just the place where you'd been born or the house where you'd been raised. Through organizing, through shared sacrifice, membership had been earned." Obama wanted to join the club.

The Gospel says to obey the laws of the country you live in, insofar as they don't require you to worship idols and stuff. "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's."

That's the common interpretation, which isn't surprising given cui bono.

Another is that it's a passive aggressive evasion, and Jesus really meant "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's (nothing)," or "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's (the least you can get away with in good conscience)."

The whole pastor thing to me is a non issue. I just assume he doesnt' care what the guy says too much that's just how people talk there. Go to a bar in Denver and you'll hear plenty of crazy talk too, but as a Denver bar guy, I am still a better candidate than most.

Huh? Confused diction aside, are you suggesting that, say, a white candidate could hang out with David Duke and you'd be okay with it, and suggest that we should all be okay with it?

I mean, I'd be okay with it, but I'm an evil racist.

That's something I haven't really driven home in the Wright discussions - I'M just fine with Wright's positions, rhetoric, and ethnocentrism; what I'm not fine with is Obama's dishonesty regarding them, the media's blatant double-standards, etc.

What does McCain offer that's better?

The media like him less.

You people accusing him of throwing his grandmother under a bus are disingenuous at best, morons at worst, and undoubtedly latently racist.

Furthermore, if you believe in evolution, did Wright say that was crazier than Pat Robertson, former Republican presidential candidate, saying that a town in Penn should be struck down by God cause they wanted evolution taught in schools. I would like to assume intellecual honesty here, but it seems like some people are a bit forgetful.

What, incidentally, is supposed to be our concern with Obamas crackpot preacher? Will his influence push us Obama to policies that lead to bankruptcy and needless foreign conflicts?

Just asking. As Steve put it, McCain is for invade the world, invite the world. From what I can tell, a big chunk of Obama's support comes from people who are against the invade the world part. That's a plus no?

(BTW, who cares what the media thinks? If the media was for Neville Chamberlein, would you be for Hitler? Please.)

You people, and I, are living in two different worlds. That grandma remark was not that big a deal. He was talking about her, but, also about a rhetorical "grandma" of old folks who grew up in a more racist past, who can't let go of prejudices.

I've dealt with hundreds of people like this. Seriously. Hundreds of old white people who are apt to say some vaguely racist thing. Usually, I know they aren't meaning to be racist. That's just how they grew up. And the best of them, like Barack's grandparents, try to deal with it somehow.

Sometimes, though, even when they don't intend to be unfair, they are unfair. That's the fact.

Whenever a person of color, in America, experiences something negative, that might be racist, they always have to wonder, "did they mean to be racist? Was it even racist?" There's always this doubt, because it's rarely ever clear.

When you're dealing with it inside your own family. It's different. The racism can be there, but, there's also love, and that matters more. Still, the racial stuff is there, because it's everywhere in America, and it's more complex. Consider the backstory.

The vagrant is someone to consider. How did he end up that way? Why are so many homeless people in America Black? What's the situation for helping African Americans deal with depression?

Why would Obama's mother spend her life researching in the third world? Why did she date a man from Kenya?

If some of you people would break out of your mental cages, these questions would unravel into a thousand complex threads about the world and our place in it. But I don't expect you all to change much. It's a lot easier to be powerful, rich, and willfully ignorant to the struggles of the bottom 90% of the world. I speak from some experience, and my own ignorance.

Wright, despite his rhetorical fury, is someone who is a positive force in the world. His speech is angry, but he is constructing an explanation for black anger. The anger in the black community expresses itself as self-destructive violence, against the community itself. They, like the angry people posting here, are myopic, and attach their rage to the people and events around them. They don't focus their rage at the larger world.

Why had that black vagrant been so angry, and why did the Communist lay down the truth and say that his grandmother's fears were well founded?

I say that the Communist had a clarity that the grandfather lacked. The Communist knew American history, and probably thought that when there's no justice, there's no peace, but, the form of "no peace" isn't predetermined. It can be the "no peace" of revolution, or the "no peace" of interpersonal violence.

The present conditions strongly favor the anger of generations to be expressed as interpersonal violence.

Wright takes the rage, and gives it a reason.

He says "God damn America," but gives you reasons.

1. They bring the drugs over.

2. They build bigger prisons.

3. They make a 3-strikes law to fill the prisons.

This is rational, and factual. Wright can scream it out like a madman, and it would still be true.

In the 1980s people were caught helping drug runners in Central America. Through the Iran-Contra coverup.

It has roots going back to the Vietnam War, when our generals looked the other way while Southeast Asian heroin was being shuttled into America's ghettos, to help fund wars.

Racism created a poverty that created not only the market for drugs, but the massive unemployed labor force to sell the drugs to people of all colors and income levels.

The increase in crime created an increase in violence, and the need for more prisons. These people had been pushed out of the "civilized" America into its desperate underground.

The prison guards unions, and the private prison companies became the biggest political contributors. Politics became one big "Willie Horton commercial." Hillary even went a couple steps down that path with her 3AM commercial.

This leads to the 3-strikes laws, which conveniently fill the prisons for a long, long time.

Try to untangle that mess by singing "kumbaya". It can't be done.

Try to untangle it by pretending everything is fine, and it's not going to get any better.

Anonymous, good post. But here is another perspective. Who gives those young black men the drugs? Who makes them rob liquor stores (so they can buy more drugs and rob more liquor stores)?

Africans got made at Albert Schweitzer for calling himself an "elder brother of the Africans," but who prepares for that role?

If the black community is not able to guide young black people properly, then what is the answer? To hate whitey for having something to teach or help to give? That is the historical pattern.

Nobody can have cake and eat it too. If you need help, then it is proper to adopt an attitude or reverence and thankfulness. And make a genuine effort to learn and improve oneself.

But to be in a position of neediness, when one is so bereft that one cannot even prevent oneself from becoming a drug addict or career criminal, and at the same time to hate those who have something to give or teach? That is self-destructive. And self destructiveness cannot be cured except by good faith self examination and good faith self help.

Bastard!!! All you know about Obama's grand mother is from a few lines written by him, and you want to claim to make a judgement, on the character of the woman? Did you live and grow up with her like Obama did? WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU? Are you only pretending to be stupid, or are you a just a Republican trying to think.

Sadly!!!! The Preacher did not speak out of turn, most thinking persons out side America, had a strong feel, That FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS their was something tragic on its way to America. However we just did not know from where. Millions of people were Angry at what American foreign policy did in their Country for their support of despotic governments in their homelands, and the economic policies America forced on them through the IMFAmericas Machiavellian methods in their trade and economic policies, in Latin Americans ,Asians, Africans in Africa , Palestinians, ,Huge populations of the Arab world , some Eastern European Nations were also very Angry. And finally you have a huge Angry population at home. I think the preacher is on message!!! You boys down there have cooked yourselves a nasty brew at home and abroad .In my opinion, Bombing and shooting you way out of it is futile, it intensifies the potency of the Brew , which you will one day have to drink.Your home grown anger is on the boil, and so far it's imploding in itself, however should the chemistry change!!! A Canadian

I find it most amusing that you sanctimonious caucasians spend so much time, and waste so much energy demonizing the black man (I know you're going to call me a bigot, so go ahead). This man spends his money and time talking candidly, and honestly to you on national T.V., and all you can think of is something to ridicule the man about, just because he's black. Your opinion doesn't even have to make sense. Go ahead and admit it. You just can't stand the thought of a black president telling you what to do. If ignorance, and hypocrisy were wealth, most of you bigots would be trillionaires. Why don't you just grow up, and just let go of race all together, and once again become a member of the human race along with the rest of us diverse, yet sensible human beings.

I can boil this all down for you because I am an elderly white woman. I was accosted in the same way as Barry's g-ma only it was from a white man who hung around the street and bus stops. As a woman, it is the fact that they are men that frightened her. She then wanted a "loyal" man to drive her to work because she did feel she deserved to put up with it and wanted to arrive at work without smelling like the bum. Perfectly natural to feel that way...for a woman. Men never understand this since they cannot see the (bodily) dangers a woman does instinctively.

Women look to their man for security and hers was blown that day. This was a GENDER SECURITY issue if the story is true. It was not about race but Grandpa did NOT want to drive his frightened wife to work so when his race-mixed grandson looked at him, he used that to excuse himself in front of the boy to justify his reluctance.

Both of them should have been MOST concerned about her safety, not her inner feelings about race or anything else. They cannot and could not read her mind but they BOTH should have cared about her safety instead of using some lame excuse to turn it into something it was not.

This incident was not even worthy of mention by Barry. It proves nothing and makes no point whatsoever except that they did not care about her (their breadwinner) safety like they should have! This is just another "playing the race card for sympathy" ploy to point out he had "suffered" race problems in his life (just like all those voters of his). SHAMEFUL. LAME. Even IF he praises his grandmother for other things...still shameful. And his gut feelings? Well that should have been a sense of the feelings his grandma was having...gender insecurity and wanting to appear at work without the smell of bum/thug.

If that is the best example of a race issue Barry could cite, then I don't feel sorry for his childhood only for his lack of a better role male model.

An honest story about life. People are way too caught up in race. I think his experiences have allowed him a certain empathy few commenting on this have including the publisher. It amounts to a nothing burger. He holds his grandparents in deep affection as he alluded to in his acceptance speech. A lot of people here honestly need to find better things to do.

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