August 27, 2016

It makes me want to ask a question. And please read the earlier post and make sure you know what "Alt-Right" means before you answer. Don't just guess. It doesn't mean people who think Althouse is right. And don't assume that if you don't know (or use) the term that it can't apply to you.

To what extent are you part of the "Alt-Right"?

Not at all. I'm opposed to it.

I might share some ideas with it, but I don't identify with the label.

I'm most or all of what it stands for, but I don't use that term for myself.

I don't agree with everything, but I think of myself as part of the Alt-Right.

I'm squarely Alt-Right (but I reject the idea that it has a white supremacy angle).

130 comments:

As opposed to the trans-Left and cis-Left, the alt-Right does not support class diversity schemes including racism, sexism, etc. It does not discriminate between individuals based on their skin color or sex, which are hallmarks of left-wing regimes globally, historically, and commonly favored by liberal and progressive factions.

It's time for the trans-Left and cis-Left to defend the selective and arbitrary principles of the Pro-Choice Church.

How can I make sure I know what "Alt-Right" means when it means different things to different people? Even setting aside Hillary's smear campaign, there is surely a good bit of disagreement within the set of people who consider themselves "Alt-Right".

If you wish to do more research on the alt-right, you might take a look at the Vox Popoli blog, which is written by Vox Day, AKA Theodore Beale, a SF writer/publisher, and author of the bestselling book SJW's Always Lie. The blog of Mike Cernovich, Danger & Play, is another alt-right resource.

""alt-right" refers to Usenet's alt newsgroups, which are in the modern web's pre-history. Did you actually know this before reading this? Be honest."

I'm not seeing that etymology in any of the articles about it. What is the source of your knowledge -- other than knowing the general story of using "alt" in these old groups? Wouldn't it have a period rather than a hyphen if that were the case?

The left wing is doing to the alt-right precisely what they did to the Tea Party, that is, telling outrageous lies about what it stands for until their zombie-like followers can repeat those lies verbatim in their sleep.

The Tea Party stood for lower taxes and less government regulation. That's it. Were there racists in the Tea Party? I suppose so, but a vanishingly small minority, and in any case, as someone who called himself a Tea Partier, I never felt any responsibility for a few fringies.

The alt-right as I see it, as it is legitimately constituted, feels betrayed by the entire political class. We elected an opposition Congress in 2014 only to watch it accede to Obama's every wish. We want legislators, and a president, who will act on our behalf, not on their own or on that of their party. That's it. Are there racists in the alt-right? I suppose so, but a vanishingly small minority, and in any case, as someone who calls himself a member of the alt-right, I never felt any responsibility for a few fringies.

Nevertheless, HRC cranks out the lies. Her scurrilous speech had me yelling at the TV. This woman doesn't know me, but she categorically called me a racist. She can go fuck herself. I won't be lectured by a woman with a perfectly fluid moral base.

The Alternative Right is a term coined in 2008 by Richard Bertrand Spencer, who heads the white nationalist think tank known as the National Policy Institute, to describe a loose set of far-right ideals centered on “white identity” and the preservation of “Western civilization.” In 2010, Spencer, who had done stints as an editor of The American Conservative and Taki’s Magazine, launched the Alternative Right blog, where he worked to refine the movement’s ideological tenets.

Spencer describes the Alt Right as a big-tent ideology that blends the ideas of neo-reactionaries (NRx-ers), who advocate a return to an antiquated, pseudo-libertarian government that supports “traditional western civilization”; “archeofuturists,” those who advocate for a return to “traditional values” without jettisoning the advances of society and technology; human biodiversity adherents (HBDers) and “race realists,” people who generally adhere to “scientific racism”; and other extreme-right ideologies. Alt-Right adherents stridently reject egalitarianism and universalism.

At the heart of the Alt-Right is a break with establishment conservatism that favors experimentation with the ideas of the French New Right; libertarian thought as exemplified by former U.S. Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas); anarcho-capitalism, which advocates individual sovereignty and open markets in place of an organized state; Catholic traditionalism, which seeks a return to Roman Catholicism before the liberalizing reforms of the Second Vatican Council; and other ideologies. It is a reaction to the conservative establishment as exemplified by the nomination of Barry Goldwater for the presidency in 1964. According to Spencer, that solidified several aspects of contemporary conservatism, including an emphasis on liberty, freedom, free markets and capitalism. Spencer considers these ideas to be “anti-ideals” and says the Alt-Right is redefining categories for a new kind of conservative.

I believe that the term "alt-right" was first coined by Richard Spenser, a white nationalist who believes that white people need a homeland all their own. In 2010, he started the website "Alternative Right," which argued in favor of ethnic cleansing of nonwhites.

Interesting fictional take - Neal Stephensons "The Diamond Age" assumes a breakdown of nationalisms and the rise of voluntary affiliation groups, distributed anywhere but living in enclaves, retaining distinctive cultures and dealing within the group for most things, including employment, education, security/defense, their laws and legal system. Dealing with other groups, even those across the street, is a matter for Foreign Affairs.The desirable groups such as the Neo-Victorians have extensive vetting processes before some outsider is let in.

"Bannon's appointment, sure enough, was quickly praised by alt-right stalwarts. “Breitbart has elective affinities with the alt-right,” the white nationalist Richard Spencer told The Daily Beast on Wednesday, “and the alt-right has clearly influenced Breitbart. In this way, Breitbart has acted as a ‘gateway’ to alt-right ideas and writers.”"

"White 'supremacism'" is the wrong label. "White nationalism" or "white identitarianism" would be closer to the mark. Though "white nationalists" are the butt of of a lot of alt-right jokes and abuse, too. At any rate, "white supremacists" live under the beds of SPLCers and MSMers with the dust bunnies, not on any alt-right forum I've ever seen.

At any rate, regarding the earlier post's look at racism, I think it's one of those games that it no longer makes sense to play. Republicans, the right, and anyone white who isn't kissing the behind of people like Al Sharpton will be called racist regardless of evidence, denials, or deeds if they stand in the way of the left. All trying to deny it accomplishes is keeping the story around longer.

The best counter is to change the subject. If the left keeps pushing, it's not like Hillary doesn't have any links to racism (Robert Byrd anyone) and Trump is not afraid to go scorched earth.

Gotta wonder if hysterics about "white supremacy" really serve the Left's cause or if it's just some kind of Fen's Law-ish spastic impulse from the Left. Only Blacks fret that Whites actually are superior. Asians have a deeply ingrained belief that they're the product of superior cultures. Hispanics probably don't spend a lot of time worrying about it. So, given that you already own Blacks, lock, stock, and barrel, aren't you more likely to alienate Whites than attract additional POC's with your incontinent ravings about white supremacy? Maybe not 20-30 years ago, but at this point I'm thinking the White Scare market is pretty much saturated. No one is more deeply racist than a White, middle-class, Liberal. Their ravings about White racism are more confession than accusation.

I wonder when the pussy "right-wing" will realize that every time the Left calls someone on the right a Fascist, that the ONLY appropriate response is to call that person and that person's candidate a murderous communist. Tit for tat always works. Letting the Left use the "F" word without using the "C" word is a direct admission of weakness.

I had never heard the term until yesterday. No one likes the Republicans who currently hold the power in Washington. Alt-right sounds like a cooler, hip Republican who is more (forgive the expression) progressive than traditional, party-loyalist, Republicans.

The racist card has lost its value. I think it actually counterproductive, especially in the hands of people like Hillary Clinton and her minions. You call people racist simply because they vote for Republicans long enough, they just stop fucking caring.

"I'm not seeing that etymology in any of the articles about it. What is the source of your knowledge -- other than knowing the general story of using 'alt' in these old groups? Wouldn't it have a period rather than a hyphen if that were the case?"

So you think that orthographic drift wouldn't account for alt.right becoming alt-right, as a locution that migrated from the then-rarefied internet community into popular argot, much the same way that the legal term "quash" turned into "squash?"

I don't think you can come up with a more plausible etymology. Can you name other popular expressions that use the "alt-" prefix? Any at all?

Indeed, what does "alt-" mean, anyway? It's hardly apparent. It's certainly not as enduring as the "-gate" suffix to label a public scandal.

It might be more productive to explain why the "alt-" prefix is not a reference to that particular domain of fringe Usenet groups. Do tell.

To us older geeky types, the lineage is obvious. To the unwashed, less so. I think Hillary's handlers pulled this smear expression out of their collective butts.

I'm not seeing the white supremacy alleged by Hillary and Cher. What I do see is blatant bigotry on Hillary's part. Example: at the first Democratic debate, she was asked: "black lives matter" or "all lives matter"? Without hesitation, she chose BLM, thus establishing herself as a black supremacist.

If you hang out on the true right groups, Freerepublic, Vox Day, Brietbart, and etc. you would have seen alt-right years ago. If you want a true etymology check with, oh, Yiannopoulos, Vox Day or Cernovich. They would know, or their tribesmen would. I'd ask, but Vox Day doesnt like me much. I keep double posting comments and it drives him bats.

If the "alt-right" means immigration laws that benefit native born Americans and the negotiation of trade deals that are good for most of America, then I'm "alt-right".

Certainly the "mainstream right" has accomplished nothing. They say, they're for small government and social conservatism - but they haven't stopped a single leftist initiative since Bill Clinton was elected in '92.

If Bob Dole, Mitt Romney, and John McCain are "the right" then I'm "alt-right".

Reading your post below, and having read other articles and Clinton's actual speech, I think the real issue here is not what the Alt-Right considers itself to be. The issue and stupidity of Clinton's speech and definition of the Alt-Right as inclusive of all Republicans, conservatives, Libertarians, anyone that does not agree with Hillary, progressivism, being a Democrat or a coastal elite.

And from that perspective, none of your poll options provide a response from the context in which the term was used by Miss Corruption and Dishonesty.

As an older geeky type who wasted a great deal of time on various squalid alt groups back in the Usenet Before Time, I do not discern any such lineage. The word "alternative" existed in English long before the internet.

I'd rather talk about swimsuits. That's the important issue. Just as some women are buying burkinis to show solidarity with their Muslim sisters, I would hope that some women go topless to show solidarity with their secular French sisters.

I was proud to call myself part of the "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy." Liked the Tea Party even better especially after attending a couple of their events (really good people.) Guess I'll have to check out this alt-right thing if I can find it around here.

William: I'd rather talk about swimsuits. That's the important issue. Just as some women are buying burkinis to show solidarity with their Muslim sisters, I would hope that some women go topless to show solidarity with their secular French sisters.

Be careful what you wish for, William. A lot of people you absolutely don't want to see nekkid (or just topless) seem to always be jumping at the chance to "make a political statement" but revealing what nobody wants to see.

Then again, those do seem to be the sorts of women who want to "show solidarity with their Muslim sisters" while at the same time not actually giving a shit about the rights and freedoms of their secular Western sisters. So maybe this "covering up in solidarity" is something to be encouraged.

But I find it interesting that Milo is considered alt-right, if the alt-right are supposedly racist. Milo isn't a racist. Of what I've seen of alt-righties, they seem to be more anti-PC if anything. If that means throwing flames to bully someone they don't like, then so be it. But I never really got the idea they mean it. It's like the term "cuckservative." Everyone now tells us it's a racist term, but it seems to be a Beta male term more than anything else.

White People trying to pretend they're not Racist: soon that Shit won't matter no more: you're all gonna be down here with US no matter what you think -- US Black People, you remember me now all-of-a-sudden? -- and we sure as Hell are not gonna let you ride in the FRONT of the bus...

It is all over for you, White People: the White People Who Matter are casting you down: welcome, bitches, to Nigger Town...

The best part is most of you Whites think that YOU'RE The White People Who Matter: oh Fuck, I LOVE THAT. I can't wait to see those tears when the White Government Managers and Lawyers and Professors and Assistants all realize that the cushy rug is being pulled out from under them, too: Room is needing to be MADE for others, understand...?

The Government don't care if you agree with it or not: you are just Mice to the Cat, and the Cat will do what it wants in its own Sweet Time...

And frankly, why should it matter whether I consider myself alt-right or not?

I've just perused a bunch of lefty sites and they are basically angry with Hillary for calling Bob Dole and GWB honorable because they all know that all Republicans are raaaacists, so why is she pretending they're not.

Althouse says, "And don't assume that if you don't know (or use) the term that it can't apply to you."

Alternate Right is the pro-American Right. That is because being for Free Trade for International Corporations that proudly erase our ink on paper borders but still use our military to police their sweet deals at selling Chinese and Mexican products all over the world is not at all Conservative. It is a Radical New World Government that has ZERO respect for a single American tradition.

Before I voted in the poll I took the careful step of finding out what the "Alt-Right" is all about. Wikipedia starts off describing the Alt-Right as " a segment of right-wing ideologies presented as an alternative to mainstream conservatism in the United States. It has been described as a movement unified by support for Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump, as well as by opposition to multiculturalism and immigration." Sounds reasonable so far. Then Wiki references The National Review and a whole bunch of other references like The New Yorker, VOX, The Washington Post, and a bunch of other far-left news sources. Hey! I've been here before! Just that it was going in the other direction back then, with J. Edgar Hoover and other reactionaries insisting that the Civil Rights movement and anti-war movement were riddled with commies.

"A specter is haunting the dinner parties, fundraisers and think-tanks of the Establishment: the specter of the “alternative right.” Young, creative and eager to commit secular heresies, they have become public enemy number one to beltway conservatives — more hated, even, than Democrats or loopy progressives.

The alternative right, more commonly known as the alt-right, is an amorphous movement. Some — mostly Establishment types — insist it’s little more than a vehicle for the worst dregs of human society: anti-Semites, white supremacists, and other members of the Stormfront set. They’re wrong."

Well, well. If the beltway conservatives hate them then they can't be all that bad, can they?

The article continues: "Part of this is down to the alt-right’s addiction to provocation. The alt-right is a movement born out of the youthful, subversive, underground edges of the internet. 4chan and 8chan are hubs of alt-right activity. For years, members of these forums – political and non-political – have delighted in attention-grabbing, juvenile pranks. Long before the alt-right, 4channers turned trolling the national media into an in-house sport."

Holy cow! They're the modern incarnation of Wavy Gravy. You and Meade are old enough to remember him, right Professor? One of the people the authors interviews commented “If you spend 75 years building a pseudo-religion around anything – an ethnic group, a plaster saint, sexual chastity or the Flying Spaghetti Monster – don’t be surprised when clever 19-year-olds discover that insulting it is now the funniest fucking thing in the world. Because it is.” I can picture someone saying to a friend something along the lines of "Hillary Clinton just called me a racist" and breaking out into gales of laughter, in much the same way that the liberals of the 1960's and 1970's used to laugh about the Chicago Tribune of that era calling us commies or commie sympathizers (you might note that I evolved from what I was back then as liberalism became less and less liberal).

So, are there racists and anti-Semites among the Alt-Right? Probably? Just as there really were communists among the anti-war demonstrators and among modern Progressives. The spectrum of political thought in the modern US has leaned so far left for so long that Progressives and social liberals (that'd be you, Professor) have forgotten how to defend their ideas without resorting to mud-flinging and charges of racism or misogyny. So now there are people laughing at you. Just as you, Professor, once laughed at your elders.

Tradguy, I think the 'Pro-American' label is accurate. Many on the Left really don't love America. My brother, for instance, an ardent globalist, actually hates it and wants to see it sink into oblivion.

Didn't Right and Left originate in the time of the French Revolution to designate the two extremes, depending on which side of the isle they sat? To me liberal and conservative are far more congenial descriptors. Thus I consider myself liberal in economics (greatest happiness of greatest number, progressive taxation, income redistribution) but socially and culturally conservative (importance of family, nation, Judeo-Christian tradition, capitalism, constitutional republic, international law, and no doubt a few other things.

Then there is the entirely separate challenge of reconciling modern findings in the science of genetics (human biodiversity, gene-culture evolution, which are things that exist in the realm of facts) with our liberal and conservative values whatever they may be. It is this clash between facts and values that is creating most of the controversy. It is very much like the conflict between science and religion in previous centuries.

Tradguy, I think the 'Pro-American' label is accurate. Many on the Left really don't love America. My brother, for instance, an ardent globalist, actually hates it and wants to see it sink into oblivion.

To continue my own post, the GOP is probably even more globalistic than the Left.

alt right means nothing to me. It's a term coined for a very small subset of racism and people are trying to apply it to half the population of the US. There is an effort by white supremacists trying to piggyback on language to mainstream themselves. Cuckservative is originally a white supremacist term. You find a lot of intelligent ignorant conservatives falling overs themselves to use the term. Alinksy learned from the Nazis. Hillary learned from Alinsky.

A more valid conversation would be an attempt to define what racism is? The left and the right have different definitions of it and the media tries to play a shell game with public opinion over it.

Liberals are clearly the most racist set in politics. People that want to make identity and race politics the foundation of their belief set are a miserable lot of people not even worth talking to. True whether is is Hillary Clinton or David Duke. If you want more white racists to validate your personal bigotry just starting protesting based on the colors black and white. Force people to take a side.

American Renaissance is a well-established alt.right website, and it's outspoken in its advocacy of white supremacy. For example, its editor, Jared Taylor, has written this: "The races are different. Blacks and whites are different. When blacks are left entirely to their own devices, Western Civilization—any kind of civilization—disappears."

and the ft. pierce islamic center, where mr. sidddiqui ran in part, what did they teach, how about the orlando one, that invited a mullah that as much as put a fatwa on gays, for ;compassion's sake' the one where fmr body guard for sheikh rahman, also preached?

Another established alt.right site is Radix, which is definitely not against abortion -- from its article "The Pro-Life Temptation":

"As our movement gains influence, it is important that we not fall prey to the pro-life temptation.

First off, the alt Right appreciates what is superior in man, in the Nietzschean sense. Most members of the alt Right applaud countries like Japan and South Korea for having low out-of-wedlock birth rates and not taking in Muslim or African refugees. We don’t simply say “who cares what they do, they’re not my tribe.” Rather, we recognize that such people have built impressive civilizations, and we believe that it is in the interest of humanity that these nations continue to exist, and not adopt the suicidal policies of the West.

Second, we on the alt Right have an appreciation of tribalism and identity. We realize that people are not just autonomous individuals. Life gains its meaning through connections to other members of our families, tribes, and nations.

I’ve spent most of my career arguing that anti-Semitism in the United States is almost entirely a product of the political Left. I’ve traveled across the country from Iowa to Texas; I’ve rarely seen an iota of true anti-Semitism. I’ve sensed far more anti-Jewish animus from leftist college students at the University of California, Los Angeles, than from churches in Valencia. As an observer of President Obama’s thoroughgoing anti-Israel administration, I could easily link the anti-Semitism of the Left to its disdain for both Biblical morality and Israeli success over its primary Islamist adversaries. The anti-Semitism I’d heard about from my grandparents — the country-club anti-Semitism, the alleged white-supremacist leanings of rednecks from the backwoods — was a figment of the imagination, I figured. I figured wrong. Donald Trump’s nomination has drawn anti-Semites from the woodwork.

I read the "previous post" as suggested & I still don't understand to who & what Alt-Right refers. I've read several descriptions of it, also, in the past couple of weeks before Hillary vomited the label out.

Obama's new immigration giveaway, approved by the GOP congress in 2014:"AGENCY: U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, DHS.ACTION: Proposed rule.SUMMARY: The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) proposes to amend itsregulations implementing the Secretary of Homeland Security’s discretionary paroleauthority to increase and enhance entrepreneurship, innovation, and job creation in theUnited States. The proposed rule would add new regulatory provisions guiding the use ofparole on a case-by-case basis with respect to entrepreneurs of start-up entities whoseentry into the United States would provide a significant public benefit through thesubstantial and demonstrated potential for rapid business growth and job creation. Suchpotential would be indicated by, among other things, the receipt of significant capitalinvestment from U.S. investors with established records of successful investments, orobtaining significant awards or grants from certain Federal, State or local governmententities. If granted, parole would provide a temporary initial stay of up to 2 years (whichmay be extended by up to an additional 3 years) to facilitate the applicant’s ability tooversee and grow his or her start-up entity in the United States. "https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Laws/Articles/FR_2016-20663_793250_OFR.pdfItalics mine.Note that it says "job creation in the United States", not "jobs for American citizens". Hiring H1B's in place of the native born can be quite competitive advantage, as our capitalist class has discovered.

I enjoy the Left making fun of the Right for allegedly not believing in evolution while simultaneously making fun of other portions of the Right for embracing Human Biodiversity--which is a full belief in evolution as applied to people.The Left has a fun Goldilocks approach to evolution, I guess--it's definitely around, but you don't want to believe in too much of it...or something.

And so I will be trying out my latest experiment of that sort, I call it #SittingInSat, 40 minutes a pop, or so. Let's see how it works to launch from their my weapon into deep silence, beyond words but aimed like these: most high wisdom guide each and every one. Most high Good lead with gentle joy every single One. cada uno, y Pepe tambien.

Hillary's 'alt-right' speech is more confirmation that the Left and the Democrat party believes that America's greatest enemy is the American people.Has Hillary ever had a difficulty she did no blame on a vast, right-wing conspiracy?She is a loony. It was Obama and the Left that kept her out of the WH in 2008.

I wasn't sure exactly what 'alt-right' bundles together; a friend of mine who identifies as alt-right linked me this (recently created in reaction to Hillary?) alt-right for 'normies'.

Upon skimming it, I would not myself identify with 'alt-right' because I don't endorse being 'unsettled' by the prevalence or efficacy of american-jewish support for universalism/neoliberalism (which IMO is motivated the same as the gentile elite's), and that seems to be part of the bundle. The page acknowledges that some "trolling" (Daily Stormer) is harming their cause. While there certainly is some element of taboo-breaking in the trolling that might titillate, if we ask who benefits, it seems it's only those who would discredit the alt-right. In short: some of the people linked there seem self-destructive addicts in this obsession. The complaint that jews are for a jewish ethno-state (Israel) can be resolved by talking to neoliberal jews - most of them are anti-zionist (think about it: all their liberal friends are ...)

I'm sure there are people who agree with me who call themselves 'alt-right' but I don't want to get into a "new black panthers" situation. Why associate with a bad brand?

There's some race realism (trivially: genetics matters ~2/3), social conservatism ('civilization matters'), and concern for fair treatment of white people going forward. These shouldn't be controversial but apparently are.

I guess it's hard for people to be fair about this stuff even if they tried (obviously Hillary didn't).

The whole thing seems moot to me in the context of this election. Trump loves 'the jews'. He hasn't advanced a single race-realist or pro-white item. Therefore he is obviously not in that (linked) alt-right. This amounts to smear by 'look at some of the people who prefer this candidate are'. Sorry, I don't play that. Or shall we consider the communists, pedophiles, repressive regimes, and islamists who support Hillary? Anyone with half a brain ... and that's the problem.

I am not disgusted by the Republicans-as-Republicans, Jon Ericson. It is the GOP party officials, most of the fed senators, and a few fed congressmen that I believe have betrayed conservatism. As I wrote on another thread, they vote to make you buy CFL light bulbs, then open up the CFL bulb market to imports because, they say, that's how a free market works. WTF?

Alt-right will be easy to smear and destroy for the same reason the Tea Party was--it can't organize a defense or counter strike because it doesn't exist. There are many ideas attached to the label, there are people who support those ideas, and some of those people identify with the label. But there is no organized platform or leadership that can control the crazies, set an agenda, or organize a response to attacks.

These labels turn people and ideas into piñatas for attacks by their opponents.

Could've stopped there, Unknown. They got people shot up at FNC because of their bigotry and hatred.

Tradguy, I think the 'Pro-American' label is accurate. Many on the Left really don't love America. My brother, for instance, an ardent globalist, actually hates it and wants to see it sink into oblivion.

Which is baffling. For example, the US was WAY less tolerant of Hitler than the global community was. The UK and France threatened to attack Czechoslovakia unless they surrendered to Hitler --- at a time when the Czechs could've beaten Hitler.