Nuclear deal: Netanyahu accuses Iran of cheating on agreement

Benjamin Netanyahu has accused Iran of continuing to hide and expand its nuclear weapons knowhow after a 2015 agreement with global powers, presenting what the Israeli prime minister claimed was “new and conclusive proof” of violations.

Netanyahu presented a series of slides and photographs of documents that he said were drawn from a half-ton cache obtained by Israeli intelligence “a few weeks ago”. The New York Times reported that Mossad had broken into a warehouse in January and smuggled them to Israel the same night. The report did not say how such a large amount of documentation was transported in secret.

However, key documents highlighted by Netanyahu had previously been seen by the UN nuclear watchdog, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), as early as 2005 and made public by the agency in 2011.

The IAEA judged that substantial work on nuclear weapons development ceased in 2003, and that there was no evidence of weapons research after 2009. Under the 2015 nuclear deal, the task of investigating Iran’s nuclear past was handed to the IAEA.

In a televised primetime speech, Netanyahu said Israel had tens of thousands of documents from what he called Iran’s “Atomic Archives”, which he presented as new evidence, and which he said had been shared with the US.

“Iran lied, big time,” he said, speaking from Israel’s military headquarters in Tel Aviv. “Iran is brazenly lying when it said it never had a nuclear weapons programme.”

Netanyahu’s presentation came less than two weeks before Donald Trump is due to decide whether to continue to abide by the 2015 deal by waiving US sanctions on Iran. Asked about the Israeli evidence on Monday, Trump said it proved he was “100% right” about the flaws of the agreement, known as the Joint Comprehensive Programme of Action (JCPOA)

“I’ve been saying it’s happening” Trump said at the White House. “They’re not sitting back idly.”

Asked about his intentions on 12 May, the deadline for the sanctions waivers, the president said: “So we’ll see what happens. I’m not telling anyone what I’m doing.”

Trump added that if he did pull out of the JCPOA it would send the “the right message” to North Korea.

The US secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, said the documents showed that Iran lied about its pursuit of nuclear weapons and that its deception undercuts the international nuclear deal it signed in 2015.

Olli Heinonen, the former chief inspector of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) said his department first saw the documentation that Netanyahu presented in 2005. The safeguards department that Heinonen ran came to the conclusion that the evidence of weapon design work known as the Amad project was credible, but that substantial work on the project ceased in 2003. Heinonen gave a classified briefing on Amad to the IAEA board in 2008.

After watching Netanyahu’s presentation, Heinonen said: “I just saw a lot of pictures I had seen before.”

“Some of the images that we saw I briefed to the board in closed session in February 2008,” Heinonen said. He added that the IAEA did not see the full archive of Amad documentation, but was given the most important evidence. The IAEA made public some of its evidence on Iran’s past nuclear weapons work in 2011. It found that some research work had continued after 2003, but found no evidence of such research activities after 2009.

Netanyahu had lobbied hard against the 2015 deal that lifted some sanctions on his arch-enemy Iran in exchange for curbs on its nuclear programme, labelling it from the outset as “a bad mistake of historic proportions”.

He has backed Donald Trump’s threats to walk away from the Barack Obama-era deal, which the US administration has sought to discredit for its limited, 10-year-duration and its failure to address Iran’s long-range missiles programme.

Netanyahu, who is known for theatrical presentations, pulled black sheets from a cabinet filled with folders that he said were copies of 55,000 pages of “incriminating” evidence. He revealed a screen to which close to 200 CDs had been affixed, saying they held videos and photos of clandestine Iranian nuclear research and development.

“Even after the deal, Iran continued to preserve and expand its nuclear weapons programme for future use,” he said, speaking in English.

Netanyahu did not detail how Israel obtained what he said was a half a tonne of “evidence” from a warehouse in Tehran, or say if the maps, diagrams, powerpoint slides and spreadsheets would be shared with the public. However, he said Israel would forward the cache to the IAEA.

“The Iran deal, the nuclear deal, is based on lies,” he said, adding that he was sure, Trump would “do the right thing” when deciding on whether to pull out of the Iran deal.

Based on the documentation that the IAEA reviewed, its director general, Yukiya Amano, said in December 2015: “The agency assesses that these activities did not advance beyond feasibility and scientific studies, and the acquisition of certain relevant technical competences and capabilities.”

“The agency has no credible indications of activities in Iran relevant to the development of a nuclear explosive device after 2009,” Amano said. “Nor has the agency found any credible indications of the diversion of nuclear material in connection with the possible military dimensions to Iran’s nuclear programme.”

The JCPOA delegated the task of looking into Iran’s past weapons work to the IAEA, which produced a “final assessment” of the outstanding nuclear issues at the end of 2015, summarising what it knew about Iranian nuclear weapons work.

“It was a political agreement,” Heinonen said. “But what you need to do is go and meet the guys who were involved in this work and see what they are doing now.”

“Without going through it with a fine-tooth comb, what Netanyahu is presenting is broadly consistent with what the IAEA has reported,” said James Acton, the co-director of the nuclear policy programme at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. But Acton added that the main purpose of the presentation was to influence Trump before the 12 May sanctions deadline.

“He had an audience of one so we wait to see what influence it had on that audience of one,” he said.

WILL ISRAEL’S PUPPET NIX THE IRAN DEAL AND GIVE NETANYAHU WHAT HE WANTS? WILL TRUMP PLAY FAIR WITH IRAN OR GIVE ISRAEL HIS FULL BACKING WHEN HE MAKES HIS HISTORIC DECISION ON MAY 12?

Netanyahu spoke by phone with Trump this weekend, according to the White House, which said the two leaders discussed “the Iranian regime’s destabilising activities”, a nod to Tehran’s military reach across the Middle East.

Iran’s foreign minister, Mohammad Javad Zarif, has said that if the US pulls out of the nuclear deal, Tehran would be “highly unlikely” to remain inside and the consequences “will not be very pleasant for the United States”.

After Netanyahu’s presentation, Zarif described it on Twitter as a “rehash of old allegations already dealt with by the IAEA”. He suggested it had been orchestrated to justify Trump’s looming decision to “nix the deal”.

The Nutty Loon rides again. He is currently under investigation for corruption so he uses the hoary old trick of distracting attention by raising the spectre of Iranian nukes. Actually I’d prefer Iran to have nukes rather than Israel. Remember South Africa and Israel conducted a joint test in the South Atlantic back in the 70s. The Mandela government released all the documentation to the Guardian, which published it. So the Zionist Entity does have nukes.

Once again, Israel is stampeding the U.S. to war based upon lies and deception. And, once again, young men in the Israeli Foreign Legion (f/k/a the U.S. military) will come home in flag-draped coffins. And, once again, millions of innocents will be slaughtered so that the criminal, rogue nation of Israel can attain unfettered dominion over the entire the Middle East and, ultimately, the world.

Breathtaking double standards. Israel has hundreds of (undeclared) nukes and the only thing that will prevent them from nuking Iran is if Iran also has nukes.

Israel demands special treatment and US protection and support. When will it end? I think Israel will eventually be defeated by demographics. The Palestinians will outnumber the Jews in Israel.

Just so long as Israel can no longer drag us into fighting more wars on its behalf. The Israel Lobby is now being seen as a hated, arrogant group and even Trump must ignore their war talk and bow to the people.

Talking of double standards; how about the media hysteria that Russia interfered in the 1916 election with a few comments on the web?. This when AIPAC asks Congress candidates to pledge support for Israel. If they don’t get that pledge they fund the opponents, VIZ Cynthia McKinney’s experience.

That’s what I call interference in electons, but is it mentioned in the media?

Slow motion false flag operation in…um…operation? I’m seriously expecting some moronic story about Iran setting off a “mini-nuke” or “dirty-bomb” — just enough sensationalism to shock the sheople into another Zionist War.

To any QAnon followers — be careful you’re not being brainwashed into supporting the next war for Zion because that “guy” is pushing for intervention in Iran, as far as I can tell.

[The Jingle-Jangle of cognitive-dissonance — saying that, I am intrigued by the theory that the nuclear deal does help fifth-columnists within Iran; it is OBAMA’s deal…and Macron and the Euro-Zogs are backing it…so something does smell…]

Flopot, if you want to be right on the money, or real close to it, (8 and often 9 times out of 10), just go with the worst case scenario (most cynical) for starters. That’s what me and Pat do and boy howdy does it work well!
The details are the only challenging part, and they’re not generally all that challenging either, especially if you have the right attitude..

Trump is the chosen patsy for the controlled demolition of the US; thus heralding the new dawn of the nirvana that is benign rule from the East, i.e the whole thing is kabuki.

I think that is the worst scenario (i.e. the most cynical) I can conjure up. So then we get the following layers of propaganda…

Layer 1 (MSM theatre) the West is divided over what to do with evil Iran and its nefarious backers in the East.

Layer 2 (altmedia theatre) the US, in thrall to Israel, is endangering the Iran deal and thus isolating itself from the vacillating Europeans and horrifying the be-knighted East.

Layer 2.2 (Q-Anon) the US is battling itself to overthrow the globalist world order and its agents within the US and the East; thus Iran and Syria must be attacked (which just happens to fit in with the neocon view, but that is just a co-incidence 😉 )

Layer 3 (backstage?) we’re all in thrall to the Few, and the ongoing, onstage antics are leading to the next phase in a JWO that has been raging for at least a century.

Flopot, good stuff but is there no supranatural element(s) at play here or lurking in the heather?
What’s a good story/life without that! Do I detect a hint?
How about the guy at VT who looks like Buck Henry?
He usually has a extra-natural thought or two.
I know it’s there, whether hiding or hiding in plain sight.
Maybe it’s even Mother Nature herself.. Hmmmm

As a concept (your analogy that it’s a multi-layered kabuki, to boot) is waay too sophisticated for the overwhelming majority of Americans to understand, and dare I say, maybe even too sophisticated for some Darkmooners here.

Most Americans have grown up on TALMUDvision and a diet of 100% kosher soap operas and game and talk shows that have deliberately dumb-downed and steered the goys to the edge of the cliff.

Nutty’s presentation/video was made for basically an illiterate audience, hence the over-the-top emphasis on pictures and props that one would use for kindergarten students.

Moreover, the “Iran Deal” — in its very appellation — is not only fundamentally Jewish (deal = to strike a bargain with someone) but it’s an integral part of the neurolinguistic and dumbing-down programming.

It is not about wealth (that can be conjured out of thin air and trillions can be burned on chaotic wars). It is not about land nor resources — they’ve had control over these things for over a century now. It is not about power — sure they’ve had our minds in a thought-vice for those same centuries.

Yes, JFC!
It occurs to me that a growing nmber of people (billions) are being separated from reality. Today’s MSM financial news is championing the HUGE gains in stock prices of “e-gamers” and e-devices, e.g., Apple, Facebook, etc. (or should they be called “cyber world” interests?).
By a visual display (see Netanyahau’s presentation), people are misled by meaningless assertions. Almost ANYTHNG can be falsified, or misrepresented.
I am reminded of an old admonition preached when I was young: “Boy, don’t believe nuthin’ you hear – and only HALF of what you SEE!”. 😣

Justice for Chinese – Amazing did Einstein really say that? Maybe he is ‘smart’ after all. Depends of course what he really meant does ‘invented’ mean made up, manufactured as opposed to something real or true. Not believing in the reality of ‘nuclear weapons’ adds another wrinkle to these staged crises (in my view at least). I am sure there are plenty nasty weapons out there so sometimes the question of ‘nukes’ or not seems a bit irrelevant but ‘truth’ is important and in the case of Israel everyone kow tows to them partly because of the BELIEF they have nukes. Take that away and they suddenly seem a bit less scary, still plenty scary but LESS so. That can only be a good thing

Nutty is determined to attack Iran, and according to some reports has only been stopped, more than once, by Israel’s military leaders.

Here’s the truth:

“a 2007 assessment by all 16 US intelligences agencies (yes, those 16 US intelligence agencies), … found Iran had “halted” its nuclear weapons program. … the same National Intelligence Estimate in 2012, which concluded again that there “is no hard evidence that Iran has decided to build a nuclear bomb. Or we can listen to the Israeli intelligence agency Mossad, which concurred with the US intelligence assessment (Haaretz, 3/18/12). Source”

The ridiculous little toad that is PM of Israel has half of the US ready to support another war for Greater Israel based on nothing more than lies, an amateurish PowerPoint presentation, and some old re-purposed office supplies.

If Nutty can provoke an Iranian response by attacking Iran – which he can now do with relative ease – does anyone at DM think the US Congress won’t back Israel’s “right to defend” with US lives and treasure?

The amazing restraint the Resistance is showing is all the proof needed that the Zionist entities days are numbered.
Nuttyyahoos ranting shows only the Zionist weakness , he/they resort to PowerPoint presentation to convince whom?, Their blind co Zionist backers in the US?, no one else is changing their position on the ” Iran deal ” , nuttyyahoos antics reminds one of a not so prize fighter hopelessly trying to convince himself he will win with a knockout punch in the first round, while all the while knowing the upcoming bruising encounter will leave him brain dead.

I’m quite sure that the jews wouldn’t be doing all the murderous hit and run attacks against Syrian and Iranian targets in Syria, and making all the outrageous claims and threats, if team Orange Clown was not completely in their pocket.

These demon-possessed madmen are not going to stop until the whole world is in flames.

what may be the substrate for this is the following jewdrama based on the true and tested syrian script:

• netanyahu is gasping for air and clutching the fake straw offered by trump of promised aggression against iran which would keep netanyahu artificially afloat until the next time – i think that this phony partnership has been in the works since before trump’s election and it explains the artificial camaraderie between them, netanyahu needs trump for survival and trump exploits it for his purposes.
In fact, this chemistry goes further back, between netanyahu and putin as well, and trump may have picked up on it.

• so now, trump reboots the idiot bullhorn, how persians are all animals and threaten the solar system with imminent doom, khamenei, ahmedinejad, rouhani are camel-humpers and must be domesticated with a heavy whip,

• followed up with some tomahawk hologram show, 8-star generals and admirals saluting on decks of starships, trump glorying in a “perfectly executed action that taught iranians a terrible lesson”, meaning that 4 cactuses got cremated in zagros mountains,

• russians having an equally fake, prearranged epileptic seizure at the “brutal” attack on their ally, which as per their defense treaty they must respond to …

• and thus, iran gets perfectly legitimate delivery of nuclear warheads for defensive, samsonian purposes, so that jew thinks not once, not twice whether to attack again but spends the rest of eternity qwetching in angst.

The ideas you proffer do appeal to part of my brain ( wishful thinking lob ) lobro .
WHEN the Resistance has the means to remove the Zionist entity, that’s what will happen, not some agreement that leaves the “jews” “qwecting in angst”.

well harry, it so happens that i stumbled onto a link or two today after posting the above, that (pre)confirmed my musings.

barry chamish is (was, now dead) an unapologetic jew but this exception that barkingdeer mentions, an exceptionally exceptional exception, a torah worshiper, maybe naturei karta, that DID NOT LIE, even when wrong, he truly believed what he said.

i was in email contact with him around the time of 911 and thereafter, when he lived in canada and the contact eventually died a natural death, i think he thought that i am a likeminded jew and i did not correct him because he had a lot of interesting and valuable revelations, smart man, spoke all kinds of hebrew.
Even though his site is defunct now, rowan berkeley of niqnaq saved this quote by chamish regarding netanyahu’s political provenance:

“Netanyahu was spotted at MIT in 1973 and the grooming began there when he was in his early twenties. After graduating, he received a high paying job at Boston Consulting. His boss was Ira Magaziner (CFR). But he quit the job in 1979, returned to Israel, starting selling furniture at the Rim company, then organized an anti-terror convention. Inexplicably, the CFR sent a team of their biggest guns including George Bush Sr, Richard Perle and George Shultz to this unknown 27 year old’s get-together. Once the convention was over, Netanyahu returned to work selling home furniture for three years until 1982, when Washington Ambassador Moshe Arens invited him to be his deputy. He claimed the choice was indirectly made by those who came to his convention and “were impressed with his performance.”That means Bush and Shultz pressed Arens to bring Bibi to Washington.
From there, they pushed his career higher. In 1985, Shultz chaired another anti-terror convention in Washington supposedly organized by Netanyahu. By the time Bibi was UN Ambassador, Schultz visited him every time he was in New York, and that was often.”

if so, he is trump’s bumboy, not the other way around and the deepstaters are keeping him on the life support for their own uses, trump figured it out, as did putin before that.

Hello lorbo, I read the quote in question and get , Bibi was chosen, I don’t get ” Trumps bum boy “.
Please understand I don’t discount it, I am just not seeing it.
Thank you of the link to barry, I shall follow it when time permits.

The jews cry out in pain as they murder people in Syria (and elsewhere); the jews cry out in pain as they make false accusations against Iran; the jews cry out in pain as they make threats against anyone trying to defend themselves from them.

How out of touch can a country’s leaders be? Is President Trump so naive as to think that the people want more wars?

The gap between the Washington elites and the people is getting greater. Trump was elected against the wishes of those elites, it was an anti-Washington protest vote, and still the elites of DC and the media don’t seem to enquire why the people voted against them.

The Neocons should take care. It could get really nasty if they start another war, against Iran or Russia. Treason is still a capital crime.

Running as a Republican, but not a GOP member.
By promoting himself as a white nationalist he alienates most Hispanics all blacks many whites, he has probably lost the queers, and by using the word Jew instead of focusing attention on Zionism, ie, trying to divide and conquer, he has little chance of winning, he may shine a light, but losers are often forgotten.
Clever?.

By shifting the all the focus on Iran non existent nuclear weapons, PM Nazinyahu succeeded in putting the illegal Jewish settlements, the theft of Palestinian lands and the slaughter of peaceful Palestinian protesters on the back burner.

A long time ago there lived an elephant named Edward on the savanna. He made a daily trip to the pond for a bath and a drink of water. One day he passed his neighbor Brenda, the bird. Edward told her that he did not like her singing at all, beside it interrupted his beauty nap. Edward decided to get even with Brenda, so he crushed her eggs in her nest. Devastated by her loss, Brenda flew to her flock to seek their help.

One bird told her, “Edward is the biggest and strongest animal and we are no match for him.” Another bird had a brilliant idea: “why not fly over Edward’s head and poke out both his eyes.” So the next day all the birds hovered over Edward and poked out his eyes. Blind, Edward was unable to find food or water and became sick and died.

The story I recounted was from a book called “Kalila wa Dimna”, written a century ago in Persia (modern-day Iran) and translated into many foreign languages. It is one of many beautifully written stories about animals that still hold true in our everyday lives.

Every time I hear or read about PM Satanyahu threatening to bomb Iran because of its nuclear program, the story of Edward the elephant pops into my head.

To begin with, Iran is no threat to ISISrael or to the U.S. by any stretch of the imagination.
It is Israel, not Iran, that was the first country in the Middle East to posses nuclear weapons. Israel wanted it as a deterrent. Why isn’t Iran entitled to do the same?

What gives the war criminal PM Nazinyahu the right to decide which country can or cannot pursue a nuclear program? And why does he want to quash Iran’s ambitions? Inquiring mind wants to know!

Tucker Carlson disappeared from his Fox News show for a few days after questioning the veracity of the latest “Assad gassed his own people” story. Rumors abound that it was a forced suspension, but perhaps he was just taking care of some personal business because he seems to be leaving the reservation again with one of his latest interviews. In this short (4.40) video Carlson interviews Col. Douglas Macgregor (ret.) on the topic “Is the U S being pushed into a possible war with Iran”. It does not follow the same script the rest of Fox News is using.

From the realm of “WTF is this” comes a report from JPost that “U.S. officials say Israel preparing for war with Iran in Syria” One might think the Israeli media would have some clue about Israeli preparations for war without needing input from any damn goyim. Apparently not, at least not anything the censors will allow.

This is a good one! The pathological liars, those who cannot tell the truth, accusing others of lying. It’s the blackest of pots, guilty of the most monumental lie in history real, questioning the kettle’s motives. Why, oh why, for the sake of YHVH god doesn’t anyone turn the spotlight around on Israel?

Why doesn’t anyone ask about Israel’s nuclear weapons program? Why doesn’t anyone point out that the Israeli’s have lied about their nuclear weapons for more than half a century?

Why not have Israel tell us how many nukes they have in their arsenal? Why not ask why Israel refuses to permit ANY oversight on their nuclear program? Why not ask Net-an-yahoo about the stolen uranium shipment from a Houston shipyard a few years ago that was redirected to Israel? Why not demand that Israel throw open the door to their nuclear program and allow UN inspection, as JFK was about to do just before he was assassinated, and like Jews demanded of Iran?

Why is it that no one notices the only only major nuclear power in the Near East, a power admitted to by people like professor Martin Levi van Creveld and Mordechai Vanunu, is the only one that is totally opaque and cannot be questioned ?

In July 2004, Vanunu claimed in the London-based Al-Hayat newspaper that the State of Israel was complicit in the assassination of John F. Kennedy. He claimed there were “near-certain indications” that Kennedy was assassinated in response to “pressure he exerted on Israel’s then head of government, David Ben-Gurion, to shed light on Dimona’s nuclear reactor”.

Big DUH! there. Complicit? There’s a pretty lightweight assessment, not to mention the threat JFK was presenting to the Federal Reserve

The US has 100 reactors operating. France has 58… supplying the bulk of its electric power. Japan is third with 42. China and Russia each have 36. Iran, UAE and Turkey have none.
Australia has none also.

According to the World Nuclear Association, a nuclear power advocacy group, as of 2012 over 45 countries were giving “serious consideration” to introducing a nuclear power capability, with Belarus, Iran, Jordan, Turkey, the United Arab Emirates and Vietnam at the forefront.

China, India and South Korea are pursuing ambitious expansions of their nuclear power capacities, with China aiming to increase capacity to at least 80 GWe by 2020, 200 GWe by 2030 and 400 GWe by 2050.

South Korea plans to expand its nuclear capacity from 20.7 GWe in 2012 to 27.3 GWe in 2020 and to 43 GWe by 2030.

India aims to have 14.6 GWe nuclear power generation capacity by 2020 and 63 GWe by 2032 and to have 25% of all electricity supplied by nuclear power by 2050.

We’ve had this discussion before. I’m still very doubtful about nuclear power plants. Rae West aka Rerevisionist is also not a believer.

The fact that your pals from the Navy worked in “nuclear power plants” hardly convinces me; that’s nothing more than hearsay. Show me an independent audit of a nuclear power plant and the exact amount of electricity generated instead. But none exists of course.

As my smart Filipino gardener used to say, “Give me enough horse shit and I can produce enough methane gas to power a factory.”

BTW, I just found this Youtuber who claims that the so-called “nuclear submarines” were actually powered by … wait for it … 300 large batteries!?

Reactors are real and supply plenty of power around the world. I claim the MOBILE nuclear weapons are fake.

You wrote:
“BTW, I just found this Youtuber who claims that the so-called “nuclear submarines” were actually powered by … wait for it … 300 large batteries!?

“He says nuclear power is a hoax!”

HE… IS… a dummy…. or a joker. He has NO clue!

THIS below IS NOT HEARSAY!! I sweated in the engineering spaces too much for too many years. 🙂

There are not any nuclear subs powered by batteries…. except when the reactor is shut down – during a SCRAM (acronym for Safety Control Rod Axe Man) – and that is for only a short period. About an hour or so… two, at the most. Any longer than that and the diesel generator would have to be put on line for electric power to run the systems… and that would mean coming up to snorkel depth, running very shallow, less than 100 ft, using the DC EPM – Emergency Propulsion Motor… That would allow air to be taken in.. for the diesel engine. And on an FBM sub… if that happened… the Commanding Officer would be fired and kicked out of the navy. Bad day for him!!

I have operated under those conditions. Among many other systems in engineering…. I was in charge of THE ship’s battery on two different subs.There was only one battery on each one… Not 300 of them!! 🙂 Each weighed over 100 tons…”BIGGLY” “YUGE”..!! 🙂

To be clear… the editor/producer was the dummy. He could not even spell batteries – he wrote “batterys”!! 🙂

The mechanic in the T-shirt was almost correct. He just misspoke slightly.

Those cells he was standing by were just that… cells… and 126 of those cells, hooked in series… make up one ship’s battery. Just like your car ‘battery’ is composed of 6 cells to give 12 volts nominal…. as they are hooked in series. Each cell is the same lead-acid oxidation potential, using sulfuric acid and lead at one plate and lead oxide at the other plate. That always gives 2.5 volts nominal… NO matter how big the cell is.. 2 inches x 2 inches x 6 inches like car’s battery, or 2 feet x 2 feet x 5 feet like sub’s!! 🙂

He was correct when he stated the ‘battery’ was used in emergencies only.

Electrical engineering is hard to explain in a few words unless writing to another so qualified. Very few, such as the film-maker, would KNOW where he was correct or mistaken.

Yes. And more ampere-hours(rating)… Just like marine batteries are larger than your car’s battery.

JFC –

The battery was used only when the reactor was shut down. It had to be so “YUGE” to replace the power needs of essential loads…. and could not power the whole needs of every system used while under NORMAL operating conditions. The cooks had to serve sandwiches 🙂 – no ovens or grills could be used.

“If the back up for the nuclear reactor was the diesel generator, why the need for such a huge battery?”

The diesel could not run at depths greater than snorkel depth. The battery could be used at any depth….. no need for air.

“What was the real function of the 100-tonnes battery then?”

Emergency use ONLY – back-up for essential loads ONLY… while deeper than snorkel depth or any time the reactor and/or diesel could not be used.

In terms of power it was much, much smaller the the reactor… and could only last an hour or so WITHOUT BEING RECHARGED… by the reactor.. which took 6 to 8 HOURS!!! 🙂

This may help your search for answers:

Submarines need large amounts of electricity to operate safely under water. They charge their batteries using diesel or nuclear-driven generators. Diesel subs must surface to recycle their batteries because carbon monoxide fumes are deadly. Nuclear ones can remain under water for months and even years.(limited only by food for crew)

If its generator fails, a submerged nuclear submarine relies on its batteries to surface. Under these circumstances, the batteries are their crew’s only hope. The rooms they are in are among the biggest spaces on the vessel. They need many battery cells in series in a large compartment. This is usually in the lower section of the hull to keep the vessel stable.

The weight of lead-acid batteries thus becomes irrelevant in submarines, because they form part of the counter-balancing ballast. This overcomes the weight / bulk disadvantage where after reliability wins.

Although technically similar to the starter-batteries in autos, modern submarine battery rooms are complex installations. They have to be. Batteries are at the heart of submarines in several ways. They keep the vessel alive in emergencies.

The voltage is actually 2 v nominal …. I stated 2.5…. which is possible, but not ‘nominal’ according to specs. We kept it higher on the sub with a trickle charge… to reduce corrosion products.

Lead Acid Battery:

The nominal voltage of lead acid is 2 volts per cell, however when measuring the open circuit voltage, the OCV of a charged and rested battery should be 2.1V/cell. Keeping lead acid much below 2.1V/cell will cause the buildup of sulfation. While on float charge, lead acid measures about 2.25V/cell, higher during normal charge.

Applying a charge or discharge places the battery into the closed circuit voltage (CCV) condition. Charging raises the voltage and discharging lowers it, simulating a rubber band effect. The voltage behavior under a load and charge is governed by the current flow and the internal battery resistance. A low resistance produces low fluctuation under load or charge; a high resistance causes the voltage to swing excessively. Charging and discharging agitates the battery; full voltage stabilization takes up to 24 hours. Temperature also plays a role; a cold temperature lowers the voltage and heat raises it.

From the link you provided: (sentences in bold are mine and added for your attention)

Submarines need large amounts of electricity to operate safely under water. They charge their batteries using diesel or nuclear-driven generators. Diesel subs must surface to recycle their batteries because carbon monoxide fumes are deadly. Nuclear ones can remain under water for months and even years.

My question:

How long did your sub routinely stay under water? I mean really under water, without having to come up to snorkeling depth and using the diesel generator?

If its generator fails, a submerged nuclear submarine relies on its batteries to surface. Under these circumstances, the batteries are their crew’s only hope. The rooms they are in are among the biggest spaces on the vessel. They need many battery cells in series in a large compartment. This is usually in the lower section of the hull to keep the vessel stable.

My comment and question:

My hunch was correct. There’s something very fishy about it all. It is either really nonsensical or really bad (((nuclear physics))) that the battery, which only functions as the “emergency” & back up power system — rarely ever used if at all — on a nuclear sub, is the largest component on it. Huh?

Pat, are there any subs in Uncle Sam’s Navy that are 100% nuclear (i.e. no batteries and no diesel generator needed) at present that you know of?

At least 70 days. My longest was 80 days. That was because the sub that should have relieved us was over a week late due to an accident. That was the longest week of my life!! 🙂

There are no subs without emergency systems like diesel generators and batteries.

How big would the battery have to be to run a city of 1000 people? Answer that and you have the size needed to run all the systems on the nuclear submarines….. since each one could provide that much energy… and even way more than that!

It is evident that you really do not grasp the functions and designs of lead-acid batteries used in the military applications. The military is famous for 100% to 500 % back-up systems to get folks back home. That was especially true in the case of nuclear subs. No damage or losses wanted. Too much scrutiny and politics.

The subs I was on were 10,000 tons. So, 100 tons of battery was not that much in comparison.
The reactor compartment was much bigger than the ‘Battery Well’ below the Crew’s Library… or Crew’s Berthing on the newer ones.

As I mentioned earlier, nuclear submarine batteries are small by diesel submarine standards and will provide power for only a few hours before becoming drained. Before that happens, the submarine either has to be at periscope depth with its emergency diesel generator supporting electrical loads, or have identified and repaired the fault in the nuclear reactor.

– The submarine’s battery isn’t one “battery”, but typically 126 battery cells connected together. (Think of it as a really powerful D-Cell flashlight.) Each cell is quite big, as you can see in the picture – about 1′ x 1′ x 5′ tall.

– As the battery is drained, it’s monitored to ensure none of the cells begin “reversing” polarity, which means they’ve become drained, and they begin charging themselves at the expense of the remaining battery cells. At that point, you’re in big trouble.

My previous and still extant guess is that “nuclear subs” are real but that they work only because they are operating in an isolated system, which is relatively simpler and easier than in an open system. See the technical definition of “isolated system” at the bottom of this post.

In other words, powering a mini-city for one thousand (1,000) submariners for 70 days is doable and much easier to do than powering a real city for one million (1,000,000) people or more and continuously without any stoppage. Hence the notorious track record and failures of nuclear power plants all around the world.

Following the Three Mile Island meltdown on March 28, 1979, the “father of nuclear submarines”, Admiral Rickover was asked to testify before Congress to explain why naval nuclear propulsion had succeeded in achieving a record of zero reactor-accidents, as opposed to the dramatic one that had just taken place. In his testimony, he said:

I am always chagrined at the tendency of people to expect that I have a simple, easy gimmick that makes my program function. Any successful program functions as an integrated whole of many factors. Trying to select one aspect as the key one will not work. Each element depends on all the others.[5]

What Rickover said to Congress in the above-cited quotation basically confirms my assertion that ‘experiments’ — I use the word ‘experiments’ because there isn’t a sub that is 100% “nuclear” yet — in an isolated system are much more the doable and consistent, if not superior, to ‘experiments’ in open systems. Hence, “nuclear subs” work in isolated systems but “nuclear power plants” in open systems do not work as well, if at all.

To convince me otherwise, you need to show me an independent audit of a nuclear power plant and the exact amount of electricity produced. But none exists of course. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that all the nuclear power plants are owned by Jews and ultimately by the Rothschilds.

Isolated system

Properties of Isolated, closed, and open systems in exchanging energy and matter.

In physical science, an isolated system is either of the following:

a physical system so far removed from other systems that it does not interact with them.

a thermodynamic system enclosed by rigid immovable walls through which neither matter nor energy can pass.

Though subject internally to its own gravity, an isolated system is usually taken to be outside the reach of external gravitational and other long-range forces.

This can be contrasted with what (in the more common terminology used in thermodynamics) is called a closed system, being enclosed by selective walls through which energy can pass as heat or work, but not matter; and with an open system, which both matter and energy can enter or exit, though it may have variously impermeable walls in parts of its boundaries.

An isolated system obeys the conservation law that its total energy–mass stays constant. Most often, in thermodynamics, matter and energy are treated as separately conserved.

Because of the requirement of enclosure, and the near ubiquity of gravity, strictly and ideally isolated systems do not actually occur in experiments or in nature. Though very useful, they are strictly hypothetical.[1][2][3]

Classical thermodynamics is usually presented as postulating the existence of isolated systems. It is also usually presented as the fruit of experience. Obviously, no experience has been reported of an ideally isolated system.

It is, however, the fruit of experience that some physical systems, including isolated ones, do seem to reach their own states of internal thermodynamic equilibrium. Classical thermodynamics postulates the existence of systems in their own states of internal thermodynamic equilibrium. This postulate is a very useful idealization.

In the attempt to explain the idea of a gradual approach to thermodynamic equilibrium after a thermodynamic operation, with entropy increasing according to the second law of thermodynamics, Boltzmann’s H-theorem used equations, which assumed a system (for example, a gas) was isolated. That is, all the mechanical degrees of freedom could be specified, treating the enclosing walls simply as mirror boundary conditions. This led to Loschmidt’s paradox. If, however, the stochastic behavior of the molecules and thermal radiation in real enclosing walls is considered, then the system is in effect in a heat bath. Then Boltzmann’s assumption of molecular chaos can be justified.

The concept of an isolated system can serve as a useful model approximating many real-world situations. It is an acceptable idealization used in constructing mathematical models of certain natural phenomena; e.g., the planets in the Solar System, and the proton and electron in a hydrogen atom are often treated as isolated systems. But, from time to time, a hydrogen atom will interact with electromagnetic radiation and go to an excited state.

Sometimes people speculate about “isolation” for the universe as a whole, but the meaning of such speculation is doubtful.

Pat, I will admit that all this is rather technical and new to me and above my paygrade, as they say, but I do have a curious mind and above average IQ and will try to respond intelligently to your 2nd answer about no 100% nuclear-powered subs — why not yet? — later when I have more time, maybe this weekend. In the meantime, have a nice day. 😊

In 1982 ‘Ricky’ told Congress that nuclear power was a “YUGE” mistake:

“….Every time you produce radiation, you produce something that has a certain half-life, in some cases for billions of years. I think the human race is going to wreck itself, and it is important that we get control of this horrible force and try to eliminate it… I do not believe that nuclear power is worth it if it creates radiation. Then you might ask me why do I have nuclear powered ships. That is a necessary evil. I would sink them all. Have I given you an answer to your question”

I had years of advanced studies of isolated systems.

Naval nuclear reactors are closed systems. They are pressurized water reactors operating in a loop in excess of 1000 psi.

ALL mechanical systems need maintenance and repair… and parts that must be replaced when worn out or broken. Maintaining and repairing and replacing equipment in the reactor compartment would be impossible while operating… due to high temperatures and deadly radiation levels there. So, the reactor must be shut down.

That means there MUST be a substitute source for power for the boat. Enter diesel generator, battery or shore power from the tender or mooring dock… Shore power uses a “YUGE” 3 phase, 1200 amp, 460 volt extension cord for the sub to plug into!!! 🙂 That was a tough job in snow and ice in Scotland…. and 110 degrees in Guam!! (I went to the hospital for over 3 weeks because of that. Cables blew up in my hands. Blew me overboard alongside the tender.)

The much, much, much larger by factors of hundreds, land models have several reactors to keep the electricity flowing while working on another one. No “YUGE” ‘extension cords’ needed.. 🙂

Russia spent 65 billion on armaments last year. The USA spent close to a trillion on arms last year.
Experts say Russia is militarily superior.
And then there is China, who is on Russia’s side and whose blue water fleet is growing every day.
I am hoping that Russia will give Iran nuclear tipped missiles to flatten Tel Aviv.
I am keen to see more Chinese troops in Syria.
And then I want to see a Russian nuclear sub flatten both New York and Washington.
The USA is so corrupted now that it is beyond help.
The USA needs to be blown clean and started again.
Russia and China could become your housekeepers.
Australia is now almost a Chinese state and the Chinese are good neighbours and great landlords.
As for the muslims, they should be shipped back to their ME lands and left alone.
Let them control their own oil.
Regards the Jews: The good, loving ones who reject usury and Zionism can be left alone to obey their Jesus hating religion, but the evil, international Communist-Corporatist pseudo Jews will all be interred and regularly water boarded.

Please correct your user name. Spelling your name wrong (“Bilne”) only gives Admin extra work. We don’t want to waste our time editing and correcting your user name every time you misspell it, so please get it right in future! 🙂

Redmond, C’mon man!
“Life is an illusion. He who takes that recipe, can mix up anything they can conjure up into the misty “present”.”

Yeah, an illusion but it’s really gonna hurt!
The illusion is in the mind’s “conjuring”
As in, am I not great? Wonderful and wise!
The answer obviously being – No I am not great, wonderful and wise, but that would be a really good idea.
The material world is real all right, but it’s temporary (aka) an illusion..

Dare I simplify all of this, even though I know I am NOT a popular soul here.

You have no reason to feel “unpopular” here. Your comment is an excellent one. Why should anyone hate you for saying that “life is an illusion”? Maybe it is, and many great minds before you have felt so, including Adi Shankara who said “Brahman is the only truth, the world is illusion.”

And here is a famous quote from the Spanish poet Calderon, author of “Life is a Dream”, which Shankara and his disciples in Vedanta would certainly have approved of:

“What’s life? A frenzied, blurry haze.
What’s life? Not anything it seems.
A shadow. Fiction filling reams.
All we possess on earth means nil,
For life’s a dream, think what you will,
And even all our dreams are dreams.”

― Pedro Calderón de la Barca, Life Is a Dream

@ Homer

I agree with you too, friend Homer. Life is real enough. It hurts! 🙂 But so are nightmares very painful. And then one wakes up in the morning and sighs with relief … to find that it was all a dream …a work of fiction spun by the mind.

I don’t think it is right to misunderstand and disrespect Shankara. Give him his due. The great Indian philosopher can hardly be regarded as a “crank”. You admire Schopenhauer if I remember correctly. Well, Schopenhauer was deeply influenced by Hindu metaphysics, especially by Shankara and his idealism. Hence the title of his great work: “The World as Will and Idea.”

The world is seen as a Great Idea in the mind of Brahman, an Idea that morphs into a physical universe, a Thought that becomes a Thing.

Lasha, though it’s not at all popular, or even easy to remember, (I know you remember), I just can’t forget how Adi Shankara, who some say is the greatest Advaitan of them all, fessed up at the end.Bhaja Govindam

“Worship Govinda, worship Govinda, worship Govinda, Oh fool! Other than chanting the Lord’s names, there is no other way to cross the life’s ocean.”

Thanks Lasha, for your thoughts.
Things that matter, indeed!

Redmond, like Lasha, I don’t think you’re unpopular at all. Not from where I’m sitting. (;>)

I’m with Hitler and Arch! Jews are just bad bastards. They were bad enough before they went on their 39 year Babylonian captivity, but they were even worse when, mixed with Babylonian blood, they returned to Judaea.
They now fused the Torah claptrap with satanic Babylonian mysticism. Hence the vile Babylonian Talmud and all its evil satanic rituals and such. Then the scribes produced a second Talmud full of evil diffusion’s and hatred of Jesus the radical reformer. Today such as the Chabad carries the mantra of this evil insanity and all Jews are affected by this vile creed. Jews are so smart and diabolically clever that they control most of the planet’s wealth. They can buy most people and use satanic whores like Stormy Daniels to suck us all off. Adam Weishaupt said women would be their best tool for killing the whiteman and his civilisation. He said he would appeal to their natural vanity and lioness greed,to be his stormtroopers. That is why I am now celibate and dress as a Buddhist monk.