Dear Jolla Tablet contributor, As promised, we are beginning to process the refunds further on cash flow positive months by randomly selecting a number of backers and providing them with a few of options in order to handle their refund situation. As of end of July is now at hand, we can confirm the financial situation is allowing us to start the process with 100 random backers. While admittedly that is not a huge number, it is what the situation permits us to do so far. We are determined to continue with the process each month we have a positive cash flow.

How backers get selected

Since we have decided to make this a fair play and select backers randomly, a common random generator script is executed by our sailor engineers in order to pick the selected refund backers for each round. For the moment, this is the most efficient way to compile the list, and to make the process fast.

Options

As mentioned in our summer update blog post, the randomly chosen 100 backers will be contacted via email. As we all want to believe in the success of Sailfish OS in the future, we have considered adding options in this refund round. The backers will be given three options to select from:

Receive credit for the same amount of money that they can choose to spend on future Sailfish programs. (such as using the credit for Sailfish OS for Sony Xperia X, which we are considering and will confirm separately if feasible)

Donate the remaining 50% refund sum to the development of Sailfish OS

Receive the remaining 50% refund

The backers will be given a couple of weeks in order to check their details in our refund tool so that everything goes as smoothly as possible. If option 1 seem like a popular fit for our community, we can provide dedicated channels for it later. Will get back on that based on the reception we get based on offering this option.

We thereby thank you for your patience and support and hope you have had a nice summer so far.

Sami

UPDATE (18/08)

On the August 15th we successfully refunded the first batch.
As communicated before, 100 backers were given 14 days to check their email and confirm their information. There were 71 reactions logged including donations and those who chose the credit option. People who did not react have been put back to the pool of backers.

As of now, no exact date is yet decided for the next round, however we are working to make it happen during September. An updated blog post will be published regarding the second batch moving forward.

UPDATE (15/09)

We are continuing with the same pace for this month as we did during August and are refunding another 100 people, completely randomly, out of the pool of backers. The backers are chosen using MySQL mathematical functions just like last time. We do feel the urge to repeat that while you may think 100 is not a huge number, this is what our current financial situation allows us to do.

Options

We have provided everyone with three options as the last time, although with a slight update on the first option. We are also providing the same option to the previous 100 people in case they would like to choose it.

The first option is now updated to: “Receive a voucher to purchase Sailfish X and deduct the price from the remaining of your refund. Receive the rest of the refund as money or alternatively donate the sum to the development of Sailfish OS.”

The backers will be given 2 weeks since they receive the email to choose their desired option. If they choose the voucher option, they will receive their voucher when Sailfish X sales starts.

Backers who did not respond to our email

As for the backers who we sent an email to and did not receive any response back, we are sending them a final reminder before making any further decisions.

We certainly are trying our best to refund everyone as fast as it is financially feasible for us.

Like a lot of other people, I want to choose the 1st option, but the wording makes it sound like it’s possible that I won’t be able to pay for the XPeria image with the refund money. In this case it makes option 1 useless for me, because I need a new phone and I can’t wait for the next ported image.

Well, the thing is that we would need to implement a credit system and since we haven’t yet completely implemented our credit system, we are not promising 100% that the credit option is a full possibility. We are however working on it and as soon as it is fully implemented into our refund tool, we can announce it. I hope that answered your question!

What sort of transparency are we looking for here? We have a generic random generator as a script, we give it a full list of everyone who backed the project and ask it to give us a specific number of those (100, in this case). We then proceed to send emails to those whom the random generator has selected and that’s basically it.

About the cash flow, really, I don’t really think any company shares their cash flow publicly.

Financial transparente, just as an idea. What you did ist asking Credit for a House, spending it for a car. And you had the cheekiness asking for a donation, instead of just granting the refund upfront. I should have given my money to the salvation army …

When you say “We have a generic random generator as a script, we give it a full list of everyone who backed the project and ask it to give us a specific number of those”, these words have the same value as if you have said “We have picked 100 backers that were praising Jolla in the comment section of this blog better than everybody else”. There is simply no way to check whether the backers actually were random, except taking your word for it.

This is a well-known problem known as “nothing in my sleeve”. What a seasoned programmer would have done in such case, is to use a publically available source of random numbers. A very popular and frequently used source is the 1955 book “A Million Random Digits with 100,000 Normal Deviates”.

It’s funny that I’m not even connected to the IT industry, and despite that this is still obvious to me.

I never “accused” anyone of anything, I just pointed you at how you could increase your credibility among your fans, AND at the same show your professional competence as software developers, with NO effort whatsoever.

You are correct – you don’t need to “bribe” anyone. However, in my opinion, you do need to have a more mature and sophisticated view of your potential customer base. They are not all “fans”. You are not a sports team who can command loyalty despite poor results. Jolla is (as far as I understand it) a commercial organisation – you need clients, customers and consumers of your products. Unfortunately at the moment your product is almost non-existent – why not have more transparency in the process. When will it be available? How much will it cost? What features will it enable? If the answers to those questions are “we don’t know” then a lot of the people you call “fans” will drift off to more reliable and available products. Why don’t you know? If you do, indeed, know but are simply not telling us – why? Jolla isn’t Red (who can realistically expect people to pay $1600 for a phone – the Hydrogen – about which we know almost nothing) because you don’t (yet?) command that level of commercial trust. Releasing details of a MySQL algorithm is possibly of interest to some but details of a product would be more beneficial. I purchased your original phone and had some hope and expectation that Jolla would continue to produce interesting stuff. Unfortunately I was wrong. Red now has my “dollars” – I’ll keep an eye open and hope that you succeed but as I’m not a “fan” but just someone who wants a quality product, I’m out.

Ok. You start with 100/month, that is about 1200 / year. If your financial situation increases by 100% annually, it takes 4.2 years, 50% -> 5.6 years, 25% -> 7.6 years, 10% -> 10.8 years, 5% -> 13.1 years, 2.5% -> 15 years, 1% -> 16.6 years.
(Calculated by sum of geometric series, can be verified by Excel, numbers are rounded down.)

I’m not good at economics, but if I understand correctly cash flow and profit is linked (on the long run). How much cash flow / profit increase do you plan?

The thing is they can’t really know beyond some short-term guesses what their financial situation will be. It’s seemed like Jolla has been in a generaly precarious position for a while and they’ve only just started making positive income at all, and they’re still working out deals etc. The promise is to refund as many as they can based on whatever their profits are, if any, and that’s really the best anyone can say.

If they spent more they’d be hurting the company and hence reducing the likelihood of more profits to pay refunds in the future. Anyone can “plan” to make enough money to issue refunds at a good rate, but if the money’s not there it’s not there. Giving an estimate gives people expectations – better to just do what you can at the time.

Some people have already donated their refund (without the tiniest “thank you” from Jolla but that’s another story), and some will go with options 1 or 2.
You need to integrate those data in your calculations.

@anttimonty: The number you are referring to is the number of individual pledges (many people did multiple pledges for tablet, shipping, upgrades, accessories, etc) which does not represent the number of backers, not even close.

The number of backers that we currently owe money to are somewhere around 7300.

Layoffs = no work = no cash flow = no possibility for a refund. Surely you know the basics of how a business works: you work, you get money, you pay whatever you need to pay. If you lay off people that theory is thrown away and as a result no money will be coming towards any refundee…

Looking at your cash “flow” which is heavily negative. It looks like they are doing a really bad job. So lay of the ones fail to deliver and keep the ones who keeps bringing the cash in (if there are any).

But of course you can’t let your money go to the ones you ripped it off with empty promises and bad management and after that more empty promises and bad management. Guess what you’ll all be out of job soon if you don’t get your act together and put this fiasco behind you. It should have been your priority number 1 since you failed to deliver, but instead you keep dragging this smell of bullshit on your shoes for so long it will probably never wash off.

You do realise that it was a kickstarter type of campaign from the beginning of Jolla? Unless you are wildly naive that means that things can go bad and they do. Plenty of projects have had huge issues even when run by very competent people. It’s always a gamble. Sucks when there are problems but they are expected and you don’t put your baby’s milk money in it.

So chill. Now, more than ever, we need an alternative to the mass surveillance of Android and slightly better hidden one by iOS. If that means we “lose” a few € so be it.

You do realize they mismanaged the money and used it elsewhere. That is not acceptable. That is essentially a fraud.

Anyways I really would like Jolla to succeed, but I don’t see that happening when they continue to drag this thing along. Every press release they have made since this fiasco, has backfired with angry tablet contributors and frankly it will continue as long as they don’t mend things up.

> You do realize they mismanaged the money and used it elsewhere. That is not acceptable. That is essentially a fraud.

This, a million times this.

I can understand if Jolla figured out that making a tablet would only lose them money, so they cancelled it and promptly refunded all the backers.

The fact that they spent forever revising the hardware of the tablet, burning money hiring developers for SfOS and then had the factory sell tablets on Taobao because they were made but Jolla couldn’t pay for them.

So people who didn’t contribute any money to the IndieGoGo ended up with a tablet faster and for less money than their “fans” which 3 years later do not have their money back.

> Every press release they have made since this fiasco, has backfired with angry tablet contributors and frankly it will continue as long as they don’t mend things up.

Because every freaking press release from Jolla is “here’s more great news and also here’s some crumbs to keep tablet backers thinking we might one day in the distant future give them some money back and act like we’re doing them a favour”

You can see other people getting annoyed by this constant “tease” Jolla uses. Just look at their Xperia project and how angry people are at how much Jolla has talked up but not delivered anything.

Here’s the deal: Jolla is really good at telling a story. Jolla is really bad at delivering on this story.

Lesson 1 for marketing: expectations management. If you promise the world and deliver nothing, expect pissed off “fans”

@ossi1967, It is not. An operating system is essentially always a work in progress. They had a working OS for the tablet when they still had the money to deliver the tablets, but they instead decided to use the money to further develop the OS instead of delivering the tablets to the customers.

Looks to me at that point the OS were already reasonably usable, but Jolla went on to waste their money on the OS instead of delivering the goods.

Or do you think they already burned the funds in just over three months… Then there is even the graph lying around somwhere in this blog that shows how much of the money actually went on to software development and how much to hardware development. Show a pretty grim picture when they had the software already up and running in march 2015.

ossi1967
on August 14, 2017 at 11:04 am

@anttimonty: You are aware that the articles you refer to are about Sailfish 2, the version of the OS created as part of the tablet project, with the money assigned to the tablet project? Whatever it is you’re trying to say, it doesn’t make sense. You try to make a point by referring to the existing software… At the same time, you say they shouldn’t have built this software (which would have been a real fraud). Then, you refer to an article on this blog that shows how much of Jolla’s (or the investors) own money was lost during the project and that the IGG campaign covered only roughly half of it… It just doesn’t add up. Whatever it is you’re trying to say, in the end you’re not really *saying* anything.

direc
on August 2, 2017 at 1:53 pm

I have been following the refund project closely and seeing all this hate and disbelif makes me sick. The process sure has taken longer than expected, but I believe this kind of stable route is the right way to go. I just want to let you know that seeing this level of persistence and not forgetting the whole thing really makes Jolla different from other companies. And that’s not the only thing in my mind today; you lads and lasses still provide updates to the original Jolla phone. If the phone was some other big name brand device, it would have been ditched already.

As we have always said, whoever backed the Jolla tablet and did not receive his/her product is entitled to their money and we still say that until the debt is paid. We thank you for your understanding and heart warming comment!

I don’t agree.
I haven’t got my full refund back yet. And if you ask about it the only response is watch our blog for more information. It’s 2019 and I’m still thinking Jolla isn’t gone refund me fully.

Mr. Pienimäki. WOULD YOU FOR CHRIST’S SAKE GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER AND MAKE SAILFISH OS AVAILABLE ON ALL SONY XPERIA DEVICES BY BLOODY CHRISTMAS?!! BASED ON WHAT I HAVE NOTICED THUS FAR, I AM LOSING FAITH IN YOUR COMPANY. IT SEEMS YOU ARE ALL BARK AND NO BITE!!

And I want a unicorn for Christmas…
Neither of our wishes is anywhere near realistic.
Jolla doesn’t have anywhere near the capacity to do the thing you asked for and spamming on every bloody blog-post in all caps won’t change a thing… Don’t you think that if they could release Sailfish OS on every Sony Xperia device by Christmas they would do exactly that?

Oh I would love to get jolla on my z5c. Or even better z6c if Sony ever gets around to releasing something like that. Would only need to get threema ported to Jolla. Rest I don’t care about but I need my secure chat.

I didn’t support the tablet so I have no personal stake but don’t you think that option 2 is entirely unnecessary? Surely it would be in Jolla’s interests (goodwill and promotion) to offer all those who “invested” a credit note against future purchases or the cash refund? Given that there is very little real cost to a software download I’m surprised that Jolla hasn’t offered a cash refund and the download as a gesture. After all, it must be in Jolla’s best interests to get their operating system in use by as many people and in as many geographical locations as possible?

OH MY God, No transparency what so ever !
100 backers who will only be contacted via E mail.

WTF Jolla ! Why not use the Indiegogo platform to give transparency to ALL 7300 backers who are still waiting on their money. So every backer is able to see which persons have received their money and who is still waiting.

And b.t.w. 100 users of the 7300 makes that this will take forever!

You guys suck big time ! You really do not understand how this world works.

100 refunds this month will not mean that we will continue with the same pace. 100 was the amount that we found feasible to this month’s financial situation. Another month might be more and another month might be less.

About the post you linked, I was not working with Jolla back then but judging by the date of that post and how things have turned out, I think you should focus on the word “might” more than others. It is now confirmed that everyone will get their money back.

Thank you for the reply. You are just confirming what I said – if the financial situation permits. You obviosly now the financial situation far better than I do. But if the first round is only 100. How big could the next be? 500? 5000? It seems unlikeley that your financial situation can be improved 5000% by next month. Agreed?
Or have you set a goal that all backers should be refunded by the end of let’s say 2018?
I would estimate that the final unlucky backer (probably Dave999 – no offence of course) will be refunded years from now. To sum up – it takes ages.

Regarding the little something you might had in the stock back then. Obviosly you had some 7300+ items in stock back then – if backers didn’t get who did?

I just want to say that I am a huge fan of Jolla and Nokia before that. I have nothing against Jolla, but I am a bit bitter about the fact how the communication was handled before. Hopefully it improves. And maybe, just maybe in one day we can see Sailfish on Nokia phone. That would rock.

Unfortunately I am unable to answer the question regarding how we have planned, since our monthly balance sheet varies heavily from month to month and at the moment where we do not have a fully stable situation, it is only a guessing game. Therefore the answer would be “wait and see!” and I’m sorry to be vague about this

Regarding the “something”: Well it was not necessarily something physical that we had in stock, it was treated as more of a plan which yet again, I have no details on as I wasn’t a part of Jolla back then. Digging that information up would really be a waste of time when we can move forward instead

Thank you for all your support over the years and we are sorry for how we handled communication previously. I certainly hope that you have seen it improve already over the past year, even if slowly.

I too have been following this refund project and seeing all that hate and disbelief makes me, well, at least wonder.

This is not such a damn serious matter. Jolla quite likely is doing what they sure can on refunding.

It’s a harsh and tough business to try to get into; just about locked mobile market. Google and Android have become too huge. Jolla was on the verge of death but still didn’t give up. Fight was real, they’re still here! We sure need alternatives to that huge grey mass.

Also, Google is ruining Youtube now with their senseless censorship and “anti-hatespeech” agenda i might add.

We need Jolla, SailfishOS and the likes badly. I’m sure it’s hard to take when it was your money and all, but these guys, against quite impossible odds in this market sure did not want this situation.

I’m never buying an Android device and my Jolla one still kicks after so many years. SFOS update once again almost here.

Totally support your effort. Never lose your spirit and patience despite of all that hate. That’s what haters usually want. We live in a time of great changes and Jolla is a little part of it.

And here we go again, anyone who objected to the money invested in tablet development being diverted and invested in developing an OS for the OEMs is a hater. Seems like a community that shares fans/developers with jolla, that also calls all unbelievers “haters”.
I might even agree with your points on google and android – but calling me and other dissenters “haters” will only generate hate.

Hello James,
why it should be now confirmed that everyone will get the money back? Our former captain promised that everyone will get his Jolla tablet! So it will be confirmed when the last backer have his money back.

Well, I think you haven’t been following our updates since our captain made that statement. Unfortunately the financial crisis that unfolded on us made everything turn and we only were able to deliver a number of tablets to our backers… And that left us with the choice of paying the money back instead.

Wow, got my money back today (I’m one of the lucky 100 I suppose). I was already getting sceptical about the refund earlier this year. Thank you Jolla for keeping your promises. I hope everyone else will get their refunds soon as well. This is the end of my Jolla sailing, but I wish all of you the best of luck.

Axion: You know that in the very north of Europe, the sun doesn’t really set in summertime… Whereas it remains dark all day in wintertime. Following this logic, summer is one day, winter is a night… and “tomorrow” means “next year in summertime”.

@ossithetroll
You really are clueless. What Jolla did here. The software was ready enough for release way before they ran out of money to make the tablet or they had already spend it and used the indiegogo project just to stay afloat with no intention to ever deliver a tablet. Which I refuse to believe atleast to the point when the only trustworthy guy Mark Dillon left.

And in march 2015 the software would have been ready enough for release and they should have directed the indiegogo funds to actually building the tablet, but they went and wasted it on the software instead.

Since you are only trolling and have nothing to back up your claims. I’ll decline further conversation with you.

@anttimonty: The purpose of the IGG campaign was to finance both the operating system for the tablet and the tablet itself. Of course the money from this campaign was by far not enough to really finance the project which cost 100% more. So there was no surplus from the IGG campaign that could have been spent on anything… refunds, further software development (as you claim it happened) or whatever.

Also, the financial troubles started towards the end of 2015. How you could assume that by that time they had any money left from a campaign that 1 year earlier had covered only 50% of the costs of the project is beyond me.

You’re wasting your time discussing with ossi. He will keep making up “facts”, like claiming the campaign was for the tablet and the OS, when the OS development was never mentioned on the campaign, only the hardware. He will never admit that we were lured with a product, a tablet, and the money we invested on that product was deviated and used to develop an OS to sell to OEMs. And that is for me the problem – jolla lied and used our investments for something else than promised, then kept lying and delaying in the hope of getting some investment for the OS to use that to pay for the tablets.
I could accept a failed development – it is a risk of these kickstart platforms. I don’t accept being lied to and having my investment misplaced and spent on something else.

OS development never mentioned? Hey Bernardo, you’re supposed to be mute, not blind! SFOS 2.0 is labeled all around, there is even a video showing a mock-up of it that you can still watch.
Now how can you think that a mock-up becomes a real product ready to be shipped without any development? Also, claiming that you wanted only the hardware is stupid, you would have been the first to complain that you can’t use it without an OS…

Be angry at them because they oversell and underestimate the efforts, no problem (they are again doing it with the Xperia), but stop this “I didn’t know that software development was necessary to create an OS” thing

@jbernardo Actually most of the campaign page on Indiegogo focuses on the operating system rather than on the hardware. Constructing a claim that the campaign wasn’t about SF2 is going to be hard. Also, I bet you would have been somewhat irritated by a tablet that comes without a working OS… It’s a matter of pure logic that a product like a tablet or a phone consists of both hardware and software.

@ossithetroll: you won’t quit, won’t you? How much is jolla paying you?
The campaign page on indiegogo now talks about the OS. When we were asked to contribute, it was all for the tablet. As for your stupid affirmation that a tablet is hardware and software, of course it is. But sailfish was already tablet ready, or at least that is what we were led to believe.
You know that and keep making false or misleading statements just to insult backers.

Nope, I don’t know how much the page has changed, but it was for sure mentioning SFOS 2.0 several times. And if you look at the presentation video (which hasn’t changed, for sure), you’ll see that the “already tablet ready” OS is only a bunch of mockups.

It’s a real shame Jolla decided to refund on a random basis. If you ask me the they should have chosen the antagonists on these blogs and refunded them first. That way we would hopefully have got rid of all the “horrible noise” these people generate.

I find this “noise” so bad I’d happily donate money so they got their refunds sooner than later and let everyone else to be able to focus on the future instead of the past.

Guys and girls, shit happens with start ups and new developments. I missed out on being a backer. If I’d been successful I’d have been unhappy at the time but realised that’s the way life is sometimes. To go around accusing Jolla of impropriety is grossly unfair.

If you really want your money back the only way for that to happen is for Jolla to be successful. Continued bickering on these blogs isn’t going to improve your chances, in fact I’d say it probably achieves the opposite as you’re potentially driving away potential Jolla users who will be the ones paying for Sailfish. It’s the profits from these sales that you refund money will come from.

I show tolerance for projects that tried honestly and failed. Companies that take the investment money and use it for something else than the project, then keep making up excuses, I have no tolerance for.
I have even less tolerance for fanbois that are happy that the money taken from the investors was used in something that the fanbois wanted,and just wish the swindled investors to shut up. You are profiting from a swindle, you have no right at all to complain that the swindled investors want their money back.

Please reply with your e mail address and I will send you my paypall account so you can “donate”my other half of the refund, once done I will clearly let everyone know and disappear from this BLOG for ever.

I was very sour with Jolla when they did not ship, I also made some sharp comments
I was quite surprised when the first 1/2 of the money was refunded
Now, quite frankly, I considered the rest of the money “gone” and my relation to Jolla closed for good
If I ever receive my contribution back, i will, in very likelihood, consider buying one more product from them, at the very lest for honoring their debts despite the dire situation.
And this is definitely not a little thing in modern times

BTW I still think that considering crowdfunding project an “investment” is a very idiotic way to think (and is not “Just my view” I am plain rigt)

So mister big shot liar liar pants on fire, you were not best in mathematics in you class were you ?

Let me help you :
You had a big bag of money (well small to be correct) which fitted exact enough money to refund 100 backers.

71 actually replied their e mail (within 14 days hoping that you did not end up in their spam box as you probably did with the other 29 backers being fed up by your lies and other make belief stories).

From this 71 backers even some donated their refund (wow good for you).

Anyways long story short you paid LESS than 100 backers, and you promised to pay 100 !!!

Again a false promise instead of being proud of yourself you might want to do the math again and USE THE RESERVED FUNDS WHERE THE WERE INTENDED FOR !!

But hey .. if you had done that in the first place we never had this discussion.

Man, hope your mother is proud of you mr. CEO because I sure as hell am NOT !!!!

Jolla need to to instruct people to have a vendor state the bootloader status of any XperiaX phones they may want to buy before purchasing so they don’t end up with a phone described as ‘unlocked’ to find out that it may have been originally sold as locked to a network with a bootloader status of ‘Bootloader unlock allowed: No’ This seems to be a glaring omission from the ‘ All you need to know’ instructions on the Jolla blog Sepehr Noori.

Good god…you know, when you back a kickstarter campaign, you are not purchasing anything. You are making a contribution and if everything turns out well you will receive a “gift” because of your contribution.
How is this difficult to understand? Why are people still “demanding” a refund even though they didn’t purchase anything but made a contribution?
I recently made a contribution to the Youyota tablet and if it turns out well I’ll receive my gift. If not, then that is the way it is.
As with gambling, you only should contribute what you are willing to lose. If you are not willing to lose then you shouldn’t contribute.
If the Jolla tablet was a sure thing then they would have sold it as they sold the Jolla phone. Instead they made it a kickstarter and unfortunately things went bad.
As far as financials go, why should Jolla make their financials public? Do you make your financials public for all to see? If not, why not? I want to know how much you make and what you spend your money on.
I find the Linux and open source crowd to be at times way to over the top in their “demands”. Even though I’m a user and supporter of open source and Linux I’ve completely removed myself from the politics as I find many of them to be to unhinged lunatics.

No point in pointing out the obvious really when it’s been done time and time again. There’s like 5 people who have spammed the comments to this blog complaining about how they haven’t gotten all of their money back non-stop for the last two years. When/if they get the rest of their money back they’ll probably continue complaining about how they didn’t get interest on what they consider to be a loan to Jolla.

The underlying issue, people not understanding that crowdfunding is not the same as pre-ordering a product, goes way beyond FOSS-related campaigns. You see that every… single… time a project fails, even when it’s obvious that none of the reasons for the failure are malicious. Instead they’ll just act like all they money was wasted on blow and hookers or that they’ve got the money just lying around to annoy them.

@ossi-Austria, Desmo, L_A_G: Are you able to read?
If YES, please read here: James Noori on July 31, 2017 at 12:32 pm
“… The number of backers that we currently owe money to are somewhere around 7300.” Do you understand English? If YES, you understand the meaning of the word “owe”! OK! And now shut up!

@Instigator I understand the meaning of this word perfectly because I’m a lawyer (which other users of this blog might not be). If Jolla owes you money, there has to be some legal act (like a treaty, a law or such) that consitutes the obligation. Fact is there isn’t any, no matter what people say.

(Reportedly a few people bought the tablet from the Jolla online shop. Now that was a different situation and did constitute an obligation. That’s why those folks got their money back very quickly as far as I know. Otherwise they would have been able to drag Jolla to the court… which is something the so-called “backers” can’t.)

He’s probably had that mental breakdown I’ve suspected he’s going to have sooner or later and is resting in a padded room. Spend two years non-stop stalking a company (practically every new blog Jolla post or update to one has had him complaining about his refund in the comments within half an hour of being posted) and it’s inevitably going take a toll on your sanity.

@L_A_G “They only ‘owe’ money because they themselves chose to do that. ”

… and not even that. They said “We’ll maybe give you some of our money if and when we can”, which is basically the same as grandmother saying “I’ll maybe find time to make an apple pie this weekend. Let’s see.” Of course you *can* shout at her madly and roll on the floor crying if she doesn’t make the apple pie… But she was under no obligation, you can’t complain she broke a promise.

Guys. Hold your horses. Jolla is working on the the refund they owe us. They might not owe us in a legal sence of the word. But they owe us the money, becouse they didn’t deliver. Dispite promise(on live stage) to do so. They know it and that’s why they doing the right thing and trying to solve this.

They are also more likely to get more money in they future if they ever intend launching another product. The law can help them with that.

A lawyer can read the law, and becouse of that they think that’s the right thing and they try do get their way with the law even if it’s right or wrong.

the law.Just to bring up the argument is hilarious don’t you think we are past that.

And regarding crowdfunding. It’s different if a +100 people multi million compony that is planning for a future in the market doing a crowdfunding compared to a dude trying to build something in his/her Parents basement. Not for the law maybe. But then again…you get the point!

GL all. May the refund luck be with you. And to all who don’t think Jolla owe us money. Simply donte the money to Jolla. Problem solved.

@James Noori, hi
I have not plan to buy an xperia x, however i’m really interested to get one.
Admitting that we get the refund mail which allow us to get a license for xpx.
Admitting that we choose this option and get the license.
How long is the time limit until we can not use it?
I’d like to appreciate how long i may have until i could get the hardware. just for own planning.

thank you very much in advance for responding.
And have a good continuation…

Apologies for my late reply.
You really do not have a time limit, you can purchase the software as long as it is available to purchase. About the rest of your money, if you choose to donate it, it will go to the development of Sailfish OS. If not, you will be in the waiting list and will get refunded when the financial situation allows.