This week, The Choice has invited Janet Lavin Rapelye, the dean of admission at Princeton University, to stop by our virtual Guidance Office and answer your questions about college admissions. Ms. Rapelye, who received a bachelor’s degree from Williams College and a master’s degree from Stanford University, has 30 years’ experience in college admissions.

Her responses, which began on Monday, will continue each day throughout this week. In this second installment of answers, Ms. Rapelye provides advice about applying early action, choosing a major and the value of research experience.

Readers may continue to post questions using the comments box below, or on the original post soliciting questions. (Please note that Wednesday will be the last day to submit a question.)

Some questions and answers have been edited for length and style. — Tanya Abrams

Applying Early Action

Q.

Would my daughter’s chances of admission be increased by applying early action instead of regular admission? Her SAT scores are currently 2100, but she believes she can boost them. We wonder if she should hold off on submitting her application in the hopes of increasing her November scores. Thanks!

— Linda Roache

A.

High school students frequently wrestle with this issue, and it is understandable. They are receiving advice from many sources as they consider where to apply and which colleges and universities might be the right fit. Some schools have binding early admission programs, other schools have two or more early admissions options, and there are a variety of deadlines and plans depending on the college or university. The process is complicated.
Princeton has a single-choice early action program, which is a nonbinding program. It means that if you decide to apply early to Princeton, you may apply early only to our institution. Once we make our decision in mid-December, however, you are free to apply to any other school. If you are admitted, you are not required to give us a response until the deadline for the regular admission cycle on May 1. That gives you an opportunity to compare offers and make the choice that best suits your academic and financial needs.

We advise you not to apply early to Princeton unless you are sure it is your first choice. We want you to research all your options and consider the best fit for you. If you decide Princeton is where you want to go more than any other school, then applying early might be right for you.

However, if you are applying early to Princeton because you believe it is the right strategy for increasing your chances of admission, we would advise against it. Our admission process is not weighted toward early applicants. The early admission programs at most colleges, whether binding or not, are intended for students who think it is the right match for them.

This past year we admitted 726 students early from a pool of 3,443 early applicants. The early pool is very competitive because it is a self-selected group of excellent students. So it is not “easier” to be admitted early in our process, even though the statistics seem otherwise. If you are considering applying early to any school, please do your homework about the possible outcomes. In the early process at Princeton, you either will be admitted, deferred into the regular decision round — where you will be reviewed again with the entire applicant pool — or refused.

We hope that the students we refuse will make other plans and apply to a broad range of colleges in the regular decision round. We do not want to give them false hope in this process, knowing that we will not be able to admit them in the spring. If your college counselor is telling you that applying early to a college or university is unwise, you may do well to listen to them; they are trying to help you.

Ultimately, you should consider carefully all the factors before deciding whether you apply early to a college. Over the years, the program has attracted growing interest from students, but because of the reasons noted above, it is not for everyone. Do your best to weigh the pros and cons at each school you are considering and then choose carefully.

Strategically Choosing a Major

Q.

How important is the applicant’s choice of major to the admissions process at highly competitive schools? For example, is it harder to get into Princeton as a potential psychology major than a potential physics major? If the applicant wants to go to medical school, is he more likely to be accepted if he expresses an interest in a relatively unpopular major (let’s say chemistry) compared to a popular major (let’s say biology)? Obviously, the applicant has to be interested in the major and likely to do well.

— Scott

A.

At Princeton, the major you choose does not have an impact on our admission decision. During the admission process we ask students to indicate their possible major (we call them concentrations), as well as subjects that might be of interest in certificate programs, which are to some extent comparable to minors in other universities. These choices are not considered binding, however, which is clearly stated on the Princeton application. The only exception is for students who indicate that they will be applying to the bachelor’s program in the arts or in science and engineering. Within those two programs, they are encouraged to explore the academic offerings until they declare their majors after either their freshman year in science and engineering or their sophomore year in the bachelor of arts program.

You should know, however, that this is not the case at all schools. At some colleges and universities, the major you indicate will affect your chances of admission. You need to do your homework on this issue. Ask your school counselor and the admission officers at the schools where you intend to apply about the policies regarding academic majors.

One reason the choice of a concentration has little bearing at Princeton is that most of our students change their minds after they begin taking classes. About 70 percent of our students graduate in a major different from the one they indicated on their admission application. We think this is exactly the right approach. We expect that students will explore their intellectual interests, and we want them to follow their passions, wherever they may lead them.

Research Experience

Q.

Princeton requires that all college juniors and seniors write research papers and theses, in addition to their regular course loads. Is that graduation requirement unique to Princeton? Does the admission process look more highly on an applicant with significant research experience outside of the classroom?

— Mom from CT

A.

Princeton provides all undergraduates with the opportunity to pursue original research and scholarship. All bachelor of arts students complete junior papers or projects and a senior thesis. Similarly, nearly every Princeton student pursuing a bachelor of science in engineering completes a senior thesis or a substantial research project, such as building a robot.

Although some prospective students apply to Princeton with research experience, and we value this experience, we do not expect this to be the norm. We know that some students will have better access to such opportunities than others. We do, however, expect that the students who come to Princeton will have the writing skills, intellectual curiosity and drive that will equip them to engage in original research.

Most colleges and universities have avenues for undergraduates to conduct significant research, and many academic programs provide exciting opportunities for extensive study. If this is something of interest, you should explore the options with your college counselor and the admission officers at the schools you are considering.

Ms. Rapelye has agreed to accept questions through Sept. 26. To pose a question to Ms. Rapelye, please visit our original post or use the comments box below.

Quote: “About 70 percent of our students graduate in a major different from the one they indicated on their admission application. We think this is exactly the right approach.”

Agree very strongly. So many students are pressured by well-meaning but misguided adults to declare a major and do it now! Otherwise you must surely be lacking in direction! And–“What? You changed your major? Are you confused?!”

I was one of those students–declared unwavering at age 18–and ended up in a profession for which I had demonstrable talent but which failed to engage me intellectually and which further failed to reward me financially.

For all of the money and effort expended in a college education, why must we rush teenagers into decisions which will define the rest of their lives? Give them time and space to discover themselves instead. A good university is an unparalleled place to do this. Stop asking them “Have you declared your major yet?”

I have to believe that your choice of major determines, to a large degree, the pool of students you are competing with. Even though students often change majors, I don’t imagine they will often change divisions. A prospective mathematics major might switch to physics, but probably not to art history. Princeton will only admit so many natural science majors, so they are the group a prospective natural science major competes against for the seats roughly allocated to that specialization.

My children are in middle school and I’m starting to evaluate high school options. I heard a very disturbing story about a high school math program. I would like to be able to pass along some advice to the parents who told me this story about how their children should discuss what could look very bad on their transcript.

Some advanced children took Algebra 1 in 7th, Geometry in 8th, Alg 2 in 9th, and then in 10th they signed up for International Baccalaureate HL Math. The teacher turned out to use an investigations approach not at all suited to the material. Also, the prep / quality of the previous math may not have been very good. In the spring, the teacher said to these 10th grade students “I suggest you take an S on the class and then repeat it next year.” The teacher by the way was the department head of math. So roughly half the children took the S and are now repeating it, or decided it would still be too hard and are taking IB SL instead.

My question is: how can these children discuss this situation in their application? Some children were able to pass the class and are now in IB 3/4 HL, many appear to have had private tutors, very involved parents or other extra support.

As for me: I am planning ahead. I want to help my children make the best use of time and be prepared. So, I am thinking if they wind up in this situation, I will have them drop the class and just find an online class somewhere else. Do you see people doing this? How can they demonstrate their credentials? All the caveats listed of people helping write essays , buy SAT scores etc would seem even more likely to be the case here.

It is just plain hard to figure out how to assist my children in being prepared. There was a comment above about AP courses being too rote. But at least the students are engaged and interested which is not usually the case in non AP courses in most schools.

Good Lord, Stuart from Seattle, relax. If you think this kind of detail is going to make or break your children’s futures, what are you going to do the weekend they get drunk and have their pictures on their Facebook pages or the million of other stupid things they’re going to do before they get out of high school – to say nothing of what they’re going to do the minute they get away from home and this incessant control?!

Are you trying to get a child into Princeton or raise a well-rounded, healthy, active, useful adult member of society?

We have been told that my son may be at a disadvantage because he comes from a small public school in a small town in Massachusetts and no one in recent years has been admitted to Princeton. His GPA and scores are far above those of earlier applicants but we wonder if Princeton is more likely to accept students from schools it knows.

I go to a rigorous private college preparatory school in NYC in which we receive excellent academic preparation for schools of the caliber of Princeton. Around 30% every year matriculate into an Ivy League school. What should students in these highly competitive college preparatory schools do to stand out if we are in a “location” of some of the best resources available? How would an admissions officer whose geographic assignment is NYC evaluate me and my equally competitive peers at these top schools?

What specific advice do you have for students in these schools? Is getting a perfect GPA or a dozen AP scores less important as the academic rigor of the school makes it clear that we would thrive in Princeton’s challenging program….are extracurriculars and passion more emphasized and scrutinized?

Neal, from post #2, the Dean of Admission at Princeton very clearly stated that an applicant’s choice of a potential major does not have an impact in their admission decision. And yet, you declare that you think otherwise, saying that Princeton will admit only so many natural science majors.

What does the Dean have to say in order for you believe her answers? Someone asked a fairly straight forward questions, she gave a very clear and definitive answer, and you basically say, “I don’t believe you!” Why don’t you believe her answer?

There were other comments from previous posts that make very bold statements about how Princeton admits 50% of their class for “sub-groups.” Every time I read statements like this, I wonder at how people can make such proclamations without any supporting information. Where is your expertise? How are you able to boldly claim such assertions with such confidence? Are you privy to the 26,000+ applications that Princeton received last year? Do you have the complete breakdown statistics and backgrounds of the 2000+ students who were admitted? Or are you basing your claims on anecdotal evidence? Are you taking your own experience and that of “people you know” and extrapolating them to the wider application pool?

Although my child has a Chinese last name, she did not grow up in a Chinese-speaking family and the Chinese program at her school is very sub-standard. I am sure the responsible admission officer knows that. It’s her own hard work earns her a 5 on the AP test. This scenario applies to many applicants; so how do you view the validity of a language AP exam in this case?

Could you rank the significance of each aspect of the college application (transcript, test scores, essays, extracurriculars, community service, etc.), at least in Princeton’s eyes, so that applicants can more realistically gauge their strengths and weaknesses in the admissions process?

Another question: How are independent study achievements viewed in the eyes of admissions officers? E.g. a student’s school doesn’t offer a certain AP class, so he studies the subject independently, takes the AP test, and receives a good score, but that effort isn’t reflected in his transcript; or maybe a student has been studying a foreign language on his own but has no real way of quantifying or otherwise demonstrating his achievements.

One more question: How important is it for a student’s extracurricular activities and academic interests to be generally related to each other and to form a sort of theme of what the student is interested in studying in college? Or is it better for a student to have a more diverse set of activities?

Among other things, Princeton faces a capacity constraint. They will not admit 500 likely math majors because they could not teach that many math majors. Potential math majors are competing against other potential math majors for a limited number of seats offered to those types of students, just as football players are competing against other football players, not the whole pool of applicants.

Constance, Neal’s opinion is credible because it is logical. Your view of believing whatever the admissions office spokesperson says is illogical and naive. The admissions office has a vested interest in leading you to believe that your choice of major plays no role, i.e. they don’t want a cascade of applicants to deceptively list obscure majors like French Literature instead of mainstream majors like Economics. Obviously, since the school manages to have sufficient numbers of students in all of the obscure majors every year, they MUST consider the applicants major as Neal has surmised. And why else would that question be on the application?

To comment 5 above: First, the main point of my somewhat rambling question could better be summarized as this:

“How do children who have had a rocky experience with a class, such that they get an S and have to repeat the class, thereby missing out on the chance for finishing the top math class in IB, discuss this on their application?” I have some friends whose children are in this situation and I would like to pass along some advice to them. Unfortunately I think the staff at this school is not going to give them good advice and most are not in a position to afford private college counseling services.

As far as raising well-rounded kids, that’s the point of looking ahead, including at online options. The reality is our district is the only one within 15 miles that does not have foreign language during the school day for 7th and 8th grade children. I want my children to have a solid prep for whatever they want to do, and not have doors closed to them because there were some options they could have taken that I did not check out. I have an Ivy league MBA and definitely, there are a lot of good places to get an education besides schools that manage to get a lot of applicants for a limited number of slots.

It is disingenuous of any College to say they don’t care what your supposed major may be.

No non-specialised college is going to create a class composed of all future Art-History majors, or all Physics majors.

The type of students that are admitted to Princeton and the reality that 70 % of them change majors allows Princeton flexibility towards whom they admit – but yes, your major, as pointed out above, must make some difference if only for practical reasons and because Princeton asks about it on the application and tracks changes in majors during their students years at Princeton.

I appreciate the Dean’s availability to answer questions, but this set of answers is a bit incomplete. Princeton’s own guide to applying this year explicitly allows Restrictive Early Action candidates to also apply early to “any public institution.” As a counselor, this is the kind of disconnect in public information that can cause a lot of angst.

Also, while a student’s proposed major within certain broad fields (humanities vs. engineering, for example) will not make a difference in their decision, it absolutely WILL make a difference if an inexperienced student who is good in math and science, who has been told, “Oh, you should be an engineer!” applies to a highly selective college’s engineering school, without presenting the credentials that truly qualify them for admission to such a program. For example, without having completed some calculus prior to high school graduation. Such a student is more likely to be denied for two reasons: 1) they will not be as competitive as other candidates for the engineering school, and 2) if they truly want to be an engineer, the admission office will want to support their pursuit of that at another college which would be more willing to remediate the math, and support their achievement of an engineering degree.

Similarly, with regard to the answer about whether the choice of major affects admission, universities support niche academic programs (classical languages, etc.) which must enroll students. While I do believe that there are no strict quotas or even target enrollment numbers for these departments, applicants who present an early and mature interest in these fields of study (e.g., have taken local college classes in Latin and ancient Greek) will certainly be noticed favorably by the admission staff.

Blogs can be wonderful, but full information is best obtained within the context of a counselor-student-parent relationship, if possible.

And don’t bash Neal – Neal, this situation is exactly the kind of thing that can make a difference, especially if the child is knocked down into SL from HL. Your high school guidance counselor should be asked to address it briefly in the school’s letters of recommendation for such students. It is okay for you to request that this be done somehow, but be very polite and respectful! 😉

Applications ask what language(s) are spoken in the home for this kind of purpose. If the child says that this language is not spoken in the home, then the admission office should know that she did not grow up speaking it, despite the origin of the name. However, if you are concerned that an admission officer in a hurry might discount the AP 5, then just add a note in the Common Application’s additional information section that explains that “Jane has mastered X language through independent study; it is not spoken in the home.” or something like that.

To Matthew –

The answer to your first question is available in publications, but many people do seem to look past it. Everyone says, and it is true, that the rigor of the high school coursework is the single most important item. If you haven’t taken your school’s most rigorous program of study, then you are not really in the ballpark to compete for admission at this level of university, if you are competing as an “unaffiliated” or “unhooked” applicant. (In other words, you are not a recruited athlete, musician, dancer, artist, under represented minority or economically disadvantaged student or a legacy, etc.)

What do the top 10 or so members of your high school’s graduating class seem to take? A full IB diploma, with High levels in solid academic core courses such as math and literature? Or do they tend to complete 10 AP’s before graduation? Or 2 AP’s? This is your answer. If your child has completed something in the same neighborhood, then he or she has taken the most rigorous program available to him or her.

Your question about independent study, and students who max out their high school’s offerings and then go beyond, is an important one. This shows a hunger for learning and initiative. Who wouldn’t like to see that in a candidate?? This type of profile is actually common among candidates for the most selective colleges. They finish their school’s math offerings in 10th grade and instead of coasting, they go to the local college and continue on, or they set up an independent study with a sympathetic math teacher and do the next level of math. In these cases, document what you can with testing. It’s all good!

For the extracurriculars, no particular diversity or theme is necessary. Just evidence of energy, commitment and any objective measure of excellence (state champion debater, award-winning actor, etc.).

Because Princeton is located in NJ, it is actually quite conscious of being a good neighbor and has traditionally been a bit more generous with its admissions there . . .
It’s just that competitive, unfortunately.

Thank you for the support, even if it was mistaken. My unsuccessful applicant to Princeton was taking graduate math classes in high school, so mathamatics ability should have not been an issue for him. I am still very puzzled about his relative lack of success in his college search.

When applying early decision to the college of your dreams, it is more important than ever to have an incredible admissions essay. The key to convincing the admissions officer that you truly want to attend this school is to give very specific praise. Avoid generic praise such as “prominent faculty,” “exciting courses” and “amazing student groups” as those could be used with any school. If you want to study political science, find the department website so that you can tell the reader which seminars thrill you, which professors impress you and which research labs or student groups you would join. Bonus points if you mention an internships program you would pursue during the summer or any community-based programs that are truly unique. To get some specific ideas, Google the name of the university along with search terms such as “student groups,” “faculty political science,” and “internship.” Once you’re done, you’ll have a truly convincing and memorable application essay. Good luck!

We cannot believe everything that these admissions officers are espousing since their foremost allegiance is to their colleges. It is a fact that students applying to elite colleges via early decision/action definitely have advantage over regular route not due to the fact they have superior grades and ECs but rather have richer parents. Wake up guys.

I think choice of major does have some impact. The college needs students interested in underutilized departments and courses. Why pay a tenured faculty member if no one is going to take his/her esoteric courses?