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Strict31 wrote:I'm not sure that combining the nigh-uncontrollable power of LOLtron with the Nacireman is a good idea. Some years from now, when mankind is on the verge of extinction, we'll be able to look back and remember this moment, and say, "DANG."

The Fantastic Four first went into space in November 1961. The Professor left for a "three hour tour" in September 1964. Sounds to me like the Professor not only caused Ben's condition but he also sabotaged the S.S. Minnow as a way to "disappear" in order to escape the possibility of Ben Grimm learning the truth and extracting revenge! He was never actually trying to leave the island. Diabolical!

That WOULD explain why he could build a golf cart, complete with internal combustion engine, out of coconut shells, leaves, and vines... But couldn't patch the Minnow's hull or even build a fucking raft...

While it can quickly be explained away that Ben altered Von Doom's recipe for chicken soup rather than a pandimensional thingamabob (like he could have told the difference anyway), this really is a silly thing for Ben to feel guilty about.

The notion that this is why he became the Thing is just as silly. If you want fanfic to explain it, then why not just say that Ben became the Thing because he feared the Cosmic Rays (Fantastic Four #1 (1961) page 9 panel 1) and so he made sure his spacesuit had heavier shielding in it than the others. Once they got blasted, he was hit with a smaller dose because of the shielding. The others maintained full control over their transformations over the years because they received the full dose. Had Ben wore the same kind of suit he could have changed into the Thing at will from the very beginning.

So for all the times he's given Reed grief over not being able to cure him, Ben's known all along that he's responsible.

So there, the same type of confession that does not lessen another character at all.

And Ben's timing - ugh. He's never left behind this confession before despite the billion times he's walked into certain death situations. Why now? Why burden two kids who were just abandoned by their family with this? This is a dickish thing to do - and Ben's not a dick.

But since his confession is now on the printed page, how long before Sue and Wolverine go back in time to kill Ben for creating Doom? (that is the kewl way of dealing with things now right?)

Time travelling to solve an issue has been an idea that's been used in comics for literally decades. As has the idea of killing characters to stop something awful happening. I applaud comics placing our heroes in more adult scenarios, sometimes facing impossible decisions and having to find a way out

While it can quickly be explained away that Ben altered Von Doom's recipe for chicken soup rather than a pandimensional thingamabob (like he could have told the difference anyway), this really is a silly thing for Ben to feel guilty about.

The notion that this is why he became the Thing is just as silly. If you want fanfic to explain it, then why not just say that Ben became the Thing because he feared the Cosmic Rays (Fantastic Four #1 (1961) page 9 panel 1) and so he made sure his spacesuit had heavier shielding in it than the others. Once they got blasted, he was hit with a smaller dose because of the shielding. The others maintained full control over their transformations over the years because they received the full dose. Had Ben wore the same kind of suit he could have changed into the Thing at will from the very beginning.

So for all the times he's given Reed grief over not being able to cure him, Ben's known all along that he's responsible. [So there, the same type of confession that does not lessen another character at all./quote]

Having a hard time with that one. You'd think a lesser dose wouldn't have mutated him so radically different from the others.

And that wasn't my theory. It was one Roy Thomas put out that the FF's psyches influenced what powers they received

Maybe he felt like he needed to apologize to the kids for what Doom did to them sending them to Hell, as he felt responsible for it? But since his confession is now on the printed page, how long before Sue and Wolverine go back in time to kill Ben for creating Doom? (that is the kewl way of dealing with things now right?)

Or maybe just go back in the past to stop Ben, then finding out it WASN'T really Ben's fault?

(Note: Obligatory request for a Reply so this gets through Amoebas' force field.)

"I have my heroes, but no one knows their names"- Sons of the Desert

Strict31 wrote:I'm not sure that combining the nigh-uncontrollable power of LOLtron with the Nacireman is a good idea. Some years from now, when mankind is on the verge of extinction, we'll be able to look back and remember this moment, and say, "DANG."

Jubilee wrote:What is with the words "kewl" being used so unnecessarily here.

Time travelling to solve an issue has been an idea that's been used in comics for literally decades. As has the idea of killing characters to stop something awful happening. I applaud comics placing our heroes in more adult scenarios, sometimes facing impossible decisions and having to find a way out

Because Marvel has forever had the rule that if you change the past you create a new timeline - you do not change the reality that the traveler is from.

Amoebas wrote:Hence my use of 'kewl' - where many of today's writers change things because it works for their story - not the characters or universe those characters exist in.

That's not cool. That's basic storytelling 101. I think the general idea is that you write the best story you can, irregardless of what has come before. Who gives a shit about minor continuity like this? Like honestly. Things change in comics constantly, getting hung up over petty details like how time travel should actually change things is silly.

The reason Age of Ultron is crap is because it's cliched, slow and hasn't done a good job of portraying any sense of gravitas to the current situation. Not because it messes with how Hawkeye was portrayed 30 years ago or what it means in contrast to other time travel stories.

The best stories in Marvel's history have paid fast and loose with what has come before. Look at how Bucky has been used in the 60's and now. Look at Clareont's X-men run. Just let it go Amobeas!