The eBay Muppet Knock-off Thread

I think the topic is staring to go off the deep end here. Posting your oppinion about copyright issues and replicas on ebay is one thing, but it's a sad sad day when the puppet community starts attacking eachother for their own beliefs and oppions..... especially when you start attacking eachothers work.

All you people who make replicas, face it, what you are doing IS illegal and some builders, fans, etc, will find it offensive. This is a place where they want to vent. And just like you say "if you don't like it, don't bid", well.... if you don't like what people are saying then don't partake in the post. Coming in and calling grown men little girls only adds fuel to the fire and your not proving any point regarding the topic. You have a right to your own oppinon, if you want to make replicas and sell them, it's your choice to do so. Not everyone has to agree with it, and not everyone is going to like it. I think most who make replicas are aware of the law (otherwise why try so hard to make a darn good replica, and then type your desciptions as if it were something else?), and by nature, you ought to know that some people are going to be up in arms over it.

Some of the work is VERY good, some of it needs a little improvement. The main thing is that people should stick to the topic and share their oppinons about the topic rather than attack each other just because they don't agree.

I probably couldn't make a very good muppet replica if I tried, that doesn't mean that I am not a talented builder..... it just means that I don't have experience copying someone elses work. Do I agree with replicating another person's art? No, I don't, but I'm also not going to rip into them either.... it's not my copyright to protect. Now if it were my characters, I'd coem after them with big bad hairy lawyers behind me (or just my mother). But I think thats Disney's job in this case.

Personally, I sure would like to see more original work from some of these builders though...... cause man, if they can build that then just think of the stuff that they could create on their own if they applied some imagination!

i thought puppetise was a 15 year old girl, my bad. Anyway all this is petty. i don't see post on all the illegal muppet tshirt stuff on ebay. these people take images of puppets that aren't even built by them and print tshirts. muppets make big money on merchandise, very little on puppet sales. If you're going to throw a fit over one suppossed infringment law, i would expect to see it about all of them. thats why a lot of this is "puppet invy," and i'm sure the muppets are not worried about knock offs, they have the real thing with a big budget to back them up. also its hard to build a muppet, it takes more creativity and skill, becuase you must make a puppet look pretty close to the same thing with out any pattern or really any help.

I dont have a problem with building muppet/fraggle/sesames street like build replicas for family friends - that is a different story.
but when the sell them on ebay - its breaking the law by copyright infringement - and are trying to make a profit of something that they have not created

I would love to hear other peoples opinions, about this,

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A little FYI, It is still copyright infringment wether you build for yourself, family, friends, or eBay.
Wether you do it for yourself or make money, your still in the wrong as far as legality.
I have been into props and costumes along time and this same discussion rears it's ugly head from time to time on the prop forums I belong to.
Lynn

Since we seem to keep finding eBay Muppet Knock-offs, I've decided to start a thread we can keep track of them with.
If I spent time to design a character, I'd hate these counterfeit artists!

I'm tempted to report these people.

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Who nominated you the eBay Muppet replica police????

I'm into Star Wars props and costumes also and I know this issue all to well, but this thread is nothing but a eBay replica Muppet police thread that I find just downright disturbing and pretty pathetic.

It is nobodies business here who puts what up on eBay for sale, you take your chances with the big guys with what you sell on eBay and NO ONE here has the right to be a judge and jury as to what is on eBay, period!!

Your taking your chances with Disney, Lucas film, Warner Bros., Paramount, JH Inc, any of the big guys when you put your product replicas put up for sale.
If you get Vero'ed by eBay that is your own fault, but you take your chances.

I have no problems with people selling replicas on eBay wether it is Muppets, Star Wars, Star Trek, what ever, I have done it many times myself with props and costume replicas that I have made, you just take your chances of getting caught.

Is it copyright infringment on making replicas? sure it is, but it will continue on and on, we are NOT the judge and jury on it.

In this world of props, costumes, Muppets, replication is the biggest form of flattery.

I'm making my Kermit puppets and I making a few prototypes before I make my personal final ones for my prop display room, my first one will probably go to my daughter. I know where the rest will probably go and yes, I know I will be taking my chances with the big guys on eBay, but they will probably go to eBay so I can sell them and help finance other projects. I'm not doing it to make a living.

If you keep a low profile and are not making a living off it and are not ripping people off, the big guys generaly leave you alone, from time to time, the copy right holders go on witch hunts and some people get caught.
Thats the way it is with any big lisence holder, some are just more trigger happy then others, WB and Paramount come to mind as they pull many auctions.

I have belonged to movie prop/ costume forums for 7-8 years and this has been proven over the years I have belonged on those forums, it is the same thing here with Muppets, if you get too big for your britch's you wil raise red flags on eBay, if you keep a low profile, the big guys generally leave you alone.

This forum is about the love of everything Muppets and puppets, it should not be used as a eBay police forum.

i totally agree. whats funny some people talk out both sides of their mouths. Muppet replica "bad , you can't sell that" Then on another thread they speak of building a trail fraggle for ebay. Just because its not a lead chracter, it is still fraggle like. remember the comment on copyright laws?Any chacter, name, or likness, those rights are reserved. So therefore they are doing the exact same thing.

Whats really sad is this should be a fun enviroment. its a muppet site. But everytime i've been on here, you must put your deffenses up, because people are ready to pick you apart. that suprises me. Some people are very impressive with their work and talents, and some people are not. that doesn't mean that everyones work is in competion with each other. This site could be an awesome place to look, learn, and listen. Thats how i got to where i am today. I'm nearly 30, but love puppets and puppetry. I've done many things from tv,music, commercials, childrens videos, and now have my own production company that produces stage shows. I couldn't of done it without people giving me a push in the right direction, and now days you can contact several people (all over the world) at once and recieve help. This should be taken advatage of, not abused, or tainted.

There is a actually a reason why they don't sell puppets if you really think about it. It is beacause the characters are puppets! They don't want them being performed anywhere else without permission.
Keep up the good work and the discussions guys.
________________

Director Davies
ripplesministry.org

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Not to drag this too far off topic, but This is the exact very same reasons that LFL dosn't want to make exact replications of Star Wars movie costumes, they don't want people robbing banks in their costumes or being in public doing things "Un Star Wars like" or getting drunk and stupid in their costumes.

Almost 100% 501st Star Wars costume legion are all fan made, you won't find lisenced a Boba Fett costume of this caliber like this forsale ANYWHERE.
This is my personal Boba Fett suit that I have spent over 5 years and it is made from parts from poeple all over the world and cost me almost $3500 to build him.

I did 100% all the assembly,building, and paint work on it. I sewn and made 85% of the cloth parts myself, because it is too hard to convy to a seamstress what you want. I made many versions of this suit over the years until this one, and YES I have sold all of my past versions on eBay or in prop/costume forums knowing I could get caught by LFL for selling them.

Is it copyright infringment? , you bet it is, wether I made it to sell or personal use it still is.

yours are pretty good, but I won't be mistaking them for a real live Henson made Kermit.

I'm waiting for the first person to buy a master replicas Kermit and use that as a pattern. I think that is when we will start to see a lot of Kermit puppets on ebay. It only takes one Kermit to start an entire black market.

Whats really sad is this should be a fun enviroment. its a muppet site.

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I had to laught out loud when I was doing my research on my Kermit and I read a thread,I don't remember which one, but the person in the thread said "Oh, I could never bring myself to disgrace JH by building or making a Kermit puppet" or something to that affect. Give me a break!! That was a pretty sad statement to make that was laughable.

I'm sure JH would get a kick out of and be honored by people trying to make replicas of his charectors that have brought joy to peoples lives.

As I said in my past post, Replication is the greatest form of flattery.
Lynn

I actually spoke with a disney lawyer about performing the muppet characters in public like in libraries and hospitals and stuff. He said basically if it is not something that you are charging for and if its a free show like for education or hospitals then they are fine with that. So as far as performing the muppets or donald or mickey, as long as its a good cause and its free, they are okay.

I actually spoke with a disney lawyer about performing the muppet characters in public like in libraries and hospitals and stuff. He said basically if it is not something that you are charging for and if its a free show like for education or hospitals then they are fine with that. So as far as performing the muppets or donald or mickey, as long as its a good cause and its free, they are okay.

A little FYI, It is still copyright infringment wether you build for yourself, family, friends, or eBay.
Wether you do it for yourself or make money, your still in the wrong as far as legality.
I have been into props and costumes along time and this same discussion rears it's ugly head from time to time on the prop forums I belong to.
Lynn

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Isnt when you make it for yourself or friends called "Fan Art"? Other wise even if you were to draw a Muppet for a competition or whatever, then technically you are breaking the law. I beleive they allow for Fan activity.

Isnt when you make it for yourself or friends called "Fan Art"? Other wise even if you were to draw a Muppet for a competition or whatever, then technically you are breaking the law. I beleive they allow for Fan activity.

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Yes, they do allow for fan activity, but techincally it is still copyright infringment no matter what way you look at it wether it is for personal use or for sale if they wanted to push it for what ever reason.
Thus the reason I said this thread is nothing but a eBay Muppet police stooly thread for people that are doing but nothing more then fan activity by doing a little selling on eBay and this thread is just plain wrong.

Most big Co.'s do allow for fan activity/fan art and generally leave the fan boys and casual sales alone, it is when you get too big or are in it for the money when they come to get you, or you are a little guy and just happens to be on at the wrong time when they come looking for big people and you get snagged.
I have seen this many times on the prop boards I belong to and I know people that have been hit or where close to being hit.

Paramount and WB most of the time are the exception and just snag and Vero anyone on eBay wether you are a one time sale or a big seller, if you are on at the wrong time when they are looking you are snagged.

If you get too big or make to much noise selling or what ever, it is a matter of time that you will get busted, if you keep it low profile doing a little fan activity as the auctions posted here are nothing more then that have been, you are generally "safe", that is just the way it is.

It is what we call a "grey area" on the prop boards for what we do, but it still techincally copyright infringment no matter what way you look at it or call it.
Lynn

Although technically you are still breaking copyright if you have any kind of unauthorized perlormance, I believe the lawyer was trying to say that they pick and choose their battles. They probably would not waste their time with someone that was not profiting, (But that doesn't mean that they can't).
Under copyright law you can be prosecuted even if you are not enriched. (check the language in the warning on most new DVD's) But in most cases they are not going to bother with you, unless it is becoming a big problem and they want to make an example.