One last thing, these "gurus", who show you algebraic charts have no clue, yea they seem impressive, but they can't factor in desire, intellect, the emotions of fear and joy, so they should be dismissed.

Tennis is simply transferring the mind into the body, doesn't matter if you hold your racquet Western or Eastern, these are basics, it's in the MIND, PERIOD.

One last thing, these "gurus", who show you algebraic charts have no clue, yea they seem impressive, but they can't factor in desire, intellect, the emotions of fear and joy, so they should be dismissed.

Tennis is simply transferring the mind into the body, doesn't matter if you hold your racquet Western or Eastern, these are basics, it's in the MIND, PERIOD.

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Actually you may be a little over the top, but I have to think there is some truth to what you are saying.

Mick you need to do some research into what top academies and coaches are teaching. The reason why most players have abandoned the net isn't because they don't know how to volley, or cannot handle mid-court balls. It is because its not a high percentage play anymore to come to the net constantly at a high level. A player is too vulnerable up there. Also, instead of coming to the net players finish a lot of points mid-court. Current players are better in the mid-court then 20-30 years ago. They are hitting harder, stronger shots, more angles, etc from there.

Coaches nowadays teach all aspects of the game, its ridiculous how complete a lot of training programs are. All areas of the court are covered, all tactical situations etc. At Sanchez-Casal for example they pay as much attention to net play as they do to mid-court and baseline play. The reason why players choose to play at the baseline is because that is the nature of the game now and their best shot at winning. It isn't the coaches forcing kids to play only from the back.

If there was any loop hole, anything missed it would be covered and used a long time ago. Top players look for any advantage they can get and coaches scout, analyze, and teach the best way they can for their students to win. Also, you cannot force a player who is comfortable and has the mentality to play at the baseline to all of a sudden expect them to become serve and volley'ers, it just doesn't work that way.

Having thought about "Tips" for some time, I believe I have the answer. Yes, you must be in shape, yes, you must practice non stop, but the answer is easy.

Look at all the advice solicited on this forum. Most people DON'T KNOW. Even the good players are not sure.

ALWAYS DO THE OPPOSITE! ALWAYS. Think! Guy practice the so called "Modern Game", that only means they can't handle mid-court or the net, they were TRAINED to dictact from the baseline.

Likewise, if you find, which is rare, a true SV learn baseline play.

But it gets better than that. Questions are asked, "How to improve.......". The answer is obvious, practice, practice, then more, do EVERYTHING what do you have to lose?

How do you have a top ranked player "Not very good at the net", or anything? Just like making muscle, you use muscle confusion to make your muscles adapt, same deal here, EVERY SHOT should be different, long baseling shot, then a short lob, then net, the baseling, these guys today ARE ROBOTS!

Mix it up. Think about it, you are a baseliner, then once in awhile you have a short lob barely over the new, will that not make you insecure? You heh never know do you. What about side spin low shots that I do and others are doing?.

When I hear, "How do I improve my forehand", for example, no offense but I think "Do what I did, practice your tail off to see what works of throw in the towel", I mean what are we talking about here, "Well, see, hold your hand like this, and....."

Tennis is a totally mental sport, that's why it's popular even though we don't think that, it's MENTAL. I'm in HORRIBLE SHAPE, but I'd whip most on this board by making quick winners.

So forget this "New Tennis" BS, even Sampras said "Well in the modern game I"d lick my chops at someone who wants to stay back".

Ignore all of these "Gurus", who give us plentious words, just to be paid".

Do like what MR. Miogy said "YOUR BEST TENNIS IS NOT LEARNED BUT IS INSIDE YOU"

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Kids, this is why you don't take drugs.
Kids, this is why you don't take drugs and start posting.

Mick you need to do some research into what top academies and coaches are teaching. The reason why most players have abandoned the net isn't because they don't know how to volley, or cannot handle mid-court balls. It is because its not a high percentage play anymore to come to the net constantly at a high level. A player is too vulnerable up there. Also, instead of coming to the net players finish a lot of points mid-court. Current players are better in the mid-court then 20-30 years ago. They are hitting harder, stronger shots, more angles, etc from there.

Coaches nowadays teach all aspects of the game, its ridiculous how complete a lot of training programs are. All areas of the court are covered, all tactical situations etc. At Sanchez-Casal for example they pay as much attention to net play as they do to mid-court and baseline play. The reason why players choose to play at the baseline is because that is the nature of the game now and their best shot at winning. It isn't the coaches forcing kids to play only from the back.

If there was any loop hole, anything missed it would be covered and used a long time ago. Top players look for any advantage they can get and coaches scout, analyze, and teach the best way they can for their students to win. Also, you cannot force a player who is comfortable and has the mentality to play at the baseline to all of a sudden expect them to become serve and volley'ers, it just doesn't work that way.

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This is a excellent explanation of why S+V is no longer used much or very effective at the higher levels of tennis any longer.

You got it balla,
Most of what he has described IS the modern game today. Play well from the BL.
Play awesome from the mid ct and transitions. Be able to volley well when it
comes down to close range combat.

Tennis has evolved much like MMA, where it started as kickboxing, then close in
ground fighting took over, followed by a much more balanced fighter who can
bring the match to his strengths and defend incredibly in his non-strengths, but
really has few to no true weaknesses.

One last thing, these "gurus", who show you algebraic charts have no clue, yea they seem impressive, but they can't factor in desire, intellect, the emotions of fear and joy, so they should be dismissed.

Tennis is simply transferring the mind into the body, doesn't matter if you hold your racquet Western or Eastern, these are basics, it's in the MIND, PERIOD.

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Glad to hear someone finally figured out tennis.

What was your recond in matchplaying using your own advice and what is your strategy when you play someone who is following your advice?

I have to say he has a point. Players my age and younger lose to older guys who love to hack, slick, lob (constantly), super good defense, volley, etc. because the shot difference mixes them up. I get really close sets with my uncle for that reason bc while I'm slamming them corner to corner, he pops a super high lob on the baseline. He doesn't do it all the time but only when on the defense. Its a good strategy that I hope to incorporate into my game. The OLD MAN's GAME! lolol

I have to say he has a point. Players my age and younger lose to older guys who love to hack, slick, lob (constantly), super good defense, volley, etc. because the shot difference mixes them up. I get really close sets with my uncle for that reason bc while I'm slamming them corner to corner, he pops a super high lob on the baseline. He doesn't do it all the time but only when on the defense. Its a good strategy that I hope to incorporate into my game. The OLD MAN's GAME! lolol

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One guy at my local courts loves to hit a forehand slice. It has crazy sidespin. He says he's used it many a time to dismiss them young guns... lol

Mick you need to do some research into what top academies and coaches are teaching. The reason why most players have abandoned the net isn't because they don't know how to volley, or cannot handle mid-court balls. It is because its not a high percentage play anymore to come to the net constantly at a high level. A player is too vulnerable up there. Also, instead of coming to the net players finish a lot of points mid-court. Current players are better in the mid-court then 20-30 years ago. They are hitting harder, stronger shots, more angles, etc from there.

Coaches nowadays teach all aspects of the game, its ridiculous how complete a lot of training programs are. All areas of the court are covered, all tactical situations etc. At Sanchez-Casal for example they pay as much attention to net play as they do to mid-court and baseline play. The reason why players choose to play at the baseline is because that is the nature of the game now and their best shot at winning. It isn't the coaches forcing kids to play only from the back.

If there was any loop hole, anything missed it would be covered and used a long time ago. Top players look for any advantage they can get and coaches scout, analyze, and teach the best way they can for their students to win. Also, you cannot force a player who is comfortable and has the mentality to play at the baseline to all of a sudden expect them to become serve and volley'ers, it just doesn't work that way.

Click to expand...

You miss the entire point, I don't CARE what so called "Academics" and others theorize, if you can play at the net I'll kill you, simply as that. Don't train at mid-court, I'll kill you, and baseline is simplest of all!

So just because the game today is baseline doesn't mean it's right, you'll see next S&V who comes into the game, what are you going to do with your stats then?

Real tennis can't be taught, it has to be devoloped inside, because it's an expression of the mind into the body, NO ONE can teach this.

So yea it's great to say "Hold your hand like this, or that", but no one can get bejond the basics of a 4.5 or whatever player by instruction, who taught Federer to be Federer? Case closed!

Again Mr. Miyogi was right in the movie franchise, "I give you roots, but real Karate comes out of you", same deal Tennis, tips for amateurs, I understand, but TENNIS IS A TRANSFERANCE OF THE MIND INTO THE BODY, anything else is BS for some to make money teaching nonsense.

PS: If you think you can be taught real tennis, I can teach you to be Robert Deniro!

I have to say he has a point. Players my age and younger lose to older guys who love to hack, slick, lob (constantly), super good defense, volley, etc. because the shot difference mixes them up. I get really close sets with my uncle for that reason bc while I'm slamming them corner to corner, he pops a super high lob on the baseline. He doesn't do it all the time but only when on the defense. Its a good strategy that I hope to incorporate into my game. The OLD MAN's GAME! lolol

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Yea, it's just MY OPINION, it's amazing these forums, guys get brutal mad, all I'm saying without polictical correctness is my view, my view MAY BE WRONG, but no one will learn anything without debate in kindness and respect, I stand behind what I said, if others get upset that's their problem.

So if I truly believe in my mind that I can be taught real tennis, I can become Robert DeNiro? Is that the point of the first post?

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No, focus. If you think you can be taught to be your own man, with your own style, ability, etc. by an instructor, you are buying a load of C...P.

You can be taught the basics, which is what this forum is about, the basics, "Oh how do I hit a forehand", cool, but real tennis is inside you. There are a million Deniro's, only a few come out and express themselves, NO ONE taught Deniro or Pachino how to act, did they take acting lessons? You bet, but that didn't make them genious', THEY DID.

They expressed themselves, if you think that you can go through the same training as Fed or Nadal and play like them, you are fooling yourself.

Again, as corney as it sounds I go back to Mr. Miyogi, "I have taught you the basics, giving you a root, now it's time for you to grow, and you will grow your own way", same deal tennis, you FIND YOUR WAY, become YOUR OWN MAN. We are created in God's image with CREATIVITY, use it!

In all seriousness, do you think it is a coincidence that this thread and the "sissies" thread were both started on a Friday or Saturday night?

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Yea, I am a honest man, little bit of beer each time. At least I admit it, society today pretends to be perfect, I'm not, so yea I let it go once in awhile when I'm not so politically correct, some find it refreshing truth, even if I make a mistake.

Yea, I am a honest man, little bit of beer each time. At least I admit it, society today pretends to be perfect, I'm not, so yea I let it go once in awhile when I'm not so politically correct, some find it refreshing truth, even if I make a mistake.

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No problem Mick. At least half the posts I've made here have been under the influence of LOTS of beer.

But I'm absolutely sober now, and do agree that of all the factors involved in becoming the best player one can become, the most important are the internal and internalized ones. I bolded and italicized "internalized" because I think that at least some of the good inside stuff can be learned from practicing things communicated by insightful teachers.

No problem Mick. At least half the posts I've made here have been under the influence of LOTS of beer.

But I'm absolutely sober now, and do agree that of all the factors involved in becoming the best player one can become, the most important are the internal and internalized ones. I bolded and italicized "internalized" because I think that at least some of the good inside stuff can be learned from practicing things communicated by insightful teachers.

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I understand, but I'm telling you if you and I both hit a wall things would be very close, the difference is my MENTAL transference to my body, that's all.

I am into science, but also faith, my faith says we are made in God's image, and one of those traits I've studied is man, among all creatures, creativity. In other words, knowledge is one thing, creativity CREATES KNOWLEDGE, something unique to man.

So maybe I had the disavantage of not really being taught, as I said before, kids today aren't really "taught" computers, but my son can outdue me, maybe we are more open younger? I don't know.

Anyways God bless, next time you play think of me, that I NEVER think of what I'm going to do, TRY IT, you have nothing to lose, you may be surprised if you mentally inject CONFIDENCE for "Do this", that you will do a shot that you look back on and say "Wow, I did that". This proves my point I think.

I understand, but I'm telling you if you and I both hit a wall things would be very close, the difference is my MENTAL transference to my body, that's all.

I am into science, but also faith, my faith says we are made in God's image, and one of those traits I've studied is man, among all creatures, creativity. In other words, knowledge is one thing, creativity CREATES KNOWLEDGE, something unique to man.

So maybe I had the disavantage of not really being taught, as I said before, kids today aren't really "taught" computers, but my son can outdue me, maybe we are more open younger? I don't know.

Anyways God bless, next time you play think of me, that I NEVER think of what I'm going to do, TRY IT, you have nothing to lose, you may be surprised if you mentally inject CONFIDENCE for "Do this", that you will do a shot that you look back on and say "Wow, I did that". This proves my point I think.

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Mick, I've never taken a tennis lesson, don't practice much, and don't think when I'm playing. I'm not sure, but I think there's a connection between one or more of those things and the fact that my unique and creatively beautiful tennis game sucks competitively.

You miss the entire point, I don't CARE what so called "Academics" and others theorize, if you can play at the net I'll kill you, simply as that. Don't train at mid-court, I'll kill you, and baseline is simplest of all!

So just because the game today is baseline doesn't mean it's right, you'll see next S&V who comes into the game, what are you going to do with your stats then?

You miss the entire point, I don't CARE what so called "Academics" and others theorize, if you can play at the net I'll kill you, simply as that. Don't train at mid-court, I'll kill you, and baseline is simplest of all!

So just because the game today is baseline doesn't mean it's right, you'll see next S&V who comes into the game, what are you going to do with your stats then?

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Academics and theories? I said academy coaches, not academics. Look up what a tennis academy is. Also, these are no theories.

Watch Fed pick up shots mid court, "No mans land", his "No Way" shots, by commentators and fans are always mid court or the net, so think what you will, hate debating emotional women who can't use logic.

It's incredible, you listen to commentators, they say things like "Well Djokavich is not good at the net", AMAZING, top guy, can't play all court.

Maybe you need a lesson in all court, all it means is that someone is as accomplished everywhere they play, a baseliner in not, so modern teachers "Choke Creativity" BIG TIME when they say "Oh, yea the game has changed, get back three feet behind the baseline, here's your 110 inch racket, I look good, get paid right"?

Guarenteed, next great serve and volleyer, or if they speed up courts, you'll be like "Heh, we need to train the new way, all court", "We don't do mindless baseline anymore".

I play with people like you on the courts, you have no idea how to deal with a short side spin shot, hard low left angled shot, no clue! I beat pro's girl, so don't talk unless you know what you are talking about, sick of fools who can't play trying to commentate my points that can help others, Tennis is in the MIND.

Yet another argument on talk tennis...
Well for me, the motto is "shut up, think, and just play"
Why argue about what's the "correct" modern game?
Just go out there and do your thing. Simple.
Who cares about other people saying "volleying is so old school. no one does it anymore."
Just do it.

Watch Fed pick up shots mid court, "No mans land", his "No Way" shots, by commentators and fans are always mid court or the net, so think what you will, hate debating emotional women who can't use logic.

I am not a woman but its nice to know you are showing your true colours with degrading comments such as that. You are looking for a debate, so keep it civil and intelligent at least.

It's incredible, you listen to commentators, they say things like "Well Djokavich is not good at the net", AMAZING, top guy, can't play all court.

Maybe you need a lesson in all court, all it means is that someone is as accomplished everywhere they play, a baseliner in not, so modern teachers "Choke Creativity" BIG TIME when they say "Oh, yea the game has changed, get back three feet behind the baseline, here's your 110 inch racket, I look good, get paid right"?

Wrong, fabrication.

Guarenteed, next great serve and volleyer, or if they speed up courts, you'll be like "Heh, we need to train the new way, all court", "We don't do mindless baseline anymore".

Key word there "IF". Right now the courts at the pro level are slow, thus baseline play and mid-court rules, not net play. Supports my statement from my earlier post, thanks.

I play with people like you on the courts, you have no idea how to deal with a short side spin shot, hard low left angled shot, no clue! I beat pro's girl, so don't talk unless you know what you are talking about, sick of fools who can't play trying to commentate my points that can help others, Tennis is in the MIND.

By the way, you still have not answered my question as to where you've come to all these conclusion about coaches not teaching the right way and not being creative? Have you studied methods, taken on-court certification courses, watched multi-national coaches teach young juniors, traveled around training centres seeing first hand whats being taught etc?

By the way, you still have not answered my question as to where you've come to all these conclusion about coaches not teaching the right way and not being creative? Have you studied methods, taken on-court certification courses, watched multi-national coaches teach young juniors, traveled around training centres seeing first hand whats being taught etc?

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Haven't you read Mick3391's posts in other threads? He was a child prodigy. He just came back to tennis after a 15-year absence and currently plays at a 6.0 level at age 38. Do you really think you should be questioning his ability?

You miss the entire point, I don't CARE what so called "Academics" and others theorize, if you can play at the net I'll kill you, simply as that. Don't train at mid-court, I'll kill you, and baseline is simplest of all!

So just because the game today is baseline doesn't mean it's right, you'll see next S&V who comes into the game, what are you going to do with your stats then?