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Re: Hisoka vs Morel

I dunno, but Hisoka was somewhat disappointed by some of the Zodiac, who called Morel incompetent.

Originally Posted by Phantron

Now I realize Hisoka retroactively turns out to be one of the most powerful characters in HXH despite the whole notion of him getting a Hunter's license is to get the law off his back (presumably Hunters, hard to see him getting bothered by regular crime enforcement), and Morel retroactively got turned into some guy who isn't even very strong despite having an absolutely crucial role in a fight that determined the fate of humanity. If Hisoko turns out to have overall combined strength (factoring in aura affinity) than Morel then he's certainly shown to be able to press such advantage, but it's just silly to compare a guy handpicked as Netero's left hand in a fight to determine the future of humanity as weaker than someone Netero barely paid attention to in the Hunter exam.

For the sake of it, according to the power hexagrams, Hisoka got stronger after the Hunter exam.

Re: Hisoka vs Morel

I remember reading similar threads on other boards and a guy brought up the point that if you're ever asking yourself a question like "Morel versus whoever" or "Royal versus anyone not Netero" there's something really wrong with the question and I believe the blame goes beyond even just a lack of understanding, but rather Togashi himself.

Take the Spiders, Kuroro, Ilumi, Hisoka, or whatever. They're equivalent of your 'most wanted' list in a generic manga where good is definitely in control. Although no one would underestimate their power they're nowhere capable of fighting the dominant *good* (in this case, Hunter's Association) and need to stay in the shadows. Hisoka and Ilumi went so far as joining an organization whose ideal they've no intention to uphold just for the convenience granted by a Hunter's license.

On the other hand, the Ants are an extinction level threat. Netero was authorized to use the Rose, a weapon that would be banned under normal circumstances in fight between even national entities. Morel was his handpicked elite to lead the attack and he's certainly the one who did the bulk of the dirty work (pretty much everyone else just abused Meleoron's hack ability and ran away when things get bad). With the way some people put it, if not considering the Smoke Jail's unique ability Netero should've asked Hisoka to come along instead of Morel because Hisoka would be a better fighter.

Netero was armed with an equivalent of nuclear weapon but apparently he's totally unable to get anyone even as strong as Hisoka to join his cause in saving humanity from utter doom. And of course let's not forget Pariston's bogus politics which prevented Netero from getting any of his super awesome Zodiac guys, even though losing the fight would mean there isn't a world to fight over anymore, and that even if successful, if the news got out that the chariman of the Hunter's Association detonated a Rose, that'd almost certainly lead to the entire orgnaization being immediately dissolved.

Of course it probably doesn't help that the Hunter's Association become a joke with the introduction of the Zodiac. Based solely on the Election arc you can reasonably argue that the Spiders can lay siege on the Hunter's HQ if they had all their original members and hired a few Zs for combat support.

I remember a thread on Spiders versus Royals, and one guy said you're basically looking at a bunch of infamous criminals versus an all-powerful invasive species bent on destroying all of humanity, and yet a surprisingly large number of people side with the infamous criminals over the destroyers of humanity. Again I don't think you can even say it's because some people don't get it, because by the time you get to the Election arc there is legitmately a reason to pick the infamous criminals over the destroyers of humanity.

Re: Hisoka vs Morel

I dunno, but Hisoka was somewhat disappointed by some of the Zodiac, who called Morel incompetent.

For the sake of it, according to the power hexagrams, Hisoka got stronger after the Hunter exam.

Hisoka could have very well gotten stronger and i think it's safe to assume that. Hisoka was judging them by their aura

Also not all of the Zodiac are combat specialist or primarily fighters. But they are all Pro Nen users with great abilities, reason for them being Netero's buddies.

Originally Posted by Phantron

I remember reading similar threads on other boards and a guy brought up the point that if you're ever asking yourself a question like "Morel versus whoever" or "Royal versus anyone not Netero" there's something really wrong with the question and I believe the blame goes beyond even just a lack of understanding, but rather Togashi himself.

Royal Guards Umm yeah that's not a battle any shown Nen user beside Netero can win. Not by themselves they'll need several high class Nen users.

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Take the Spiders, Kuroro, Ilumi, Hisoka, or whatever. They're equivalent of your 'most wanted' list in a generic manga where good is definitely in control. Although no one would underestimate their power they're nowhere capable of fighting the dominant *good* (in this case, Hunter's Association) and need to stay in the shadows. Hisoka and Ilumi went so far as joining an organization whose ideal they've no intention to uphold just for the convenience granted by a Hunter's license.

Anybody can be a Hunter..ex.Hisoka. Hunter's aren't generically good guys. The organization as a whole has good intentions...But having a whole bunch of Black list Hunters or Zodiac attacking the Spider's are just gonna limit their ability to maneuver and steal. That is their sole purpose they aren't scared they been killing and stealing for years they are already wanted criminals.

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On the other hand, the Ants are an extinction level threat. Netero was authorized to use the Rose, a weapon that would be banned under normal circumstances in fight between even national entities. Morel was his handpicked elite to lead the attack and he's certainly the one who did the bulk of the dirty work (pretty much everyone else just abused Meleoron's hack ability and ran away when things get bad). With the way some people put it, if not considering the Smoke Jail's unique ability Netero should've asked Hisoka to come along instead of Morel because Hisoka would be a better fighter.

Your trying to be funny, like Netero has Hisoka's # on speed dial or he would actually go to him as a trusted associate to hunt the ants with him..............................................-_-

The Mission was to exterminate the Ants before the Queen hatched the king and Royal Guards. Only Captain Lv Ants after possessing Nen are mid-difficulty threats. Morau and Novu again are trusted and skilled associates of the President. Not the top hunters of the association.

The situation changed after the King was born. Netero had his Aura denounced as not being able to fight the Royal Guards this led him to isolating himself and polishing his Nen to it's extreme. Novu and Morau were to meet up with their associates and await orders, which turned out to be to inflitrate the Palace and separate the Royal Guards from the King.

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Of course it probably doesn't help that the Hunter's Association become a joke with the introduction of the Zodiac. Based solely on the Election arc you can reasonably argue that the Spiders can lay siege on the Hunter's HQ if they had all their original members and hired a few Zs for combat support.

You focus to much on strait power and reputation. Hanzo hasn't been shown since beginning of manga but he's not a push over of course. The Spider's could try but lost many members by attacking so many random nen user's that can potentially trap them in their ability.

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I remember a thread on Spiders versus Royals, and one guy said you're basically looking at a bunch of infamous criminals versus an all-powerful invasive species bent on destroying all of humanity, and yet a surprisingly large number of people side with the infamous criminals over the destroyers of humanity. Again I don't think you can even say it's because some people don't get it, because by the time you get to the Election arc there is legitmately a reason to pick the infamous criminals over the destroyers of humanity.

All the Spider's would be needed and they have a 20% of victory imo. Nobody could beat the King, only way was merelon Hatsu + Pot Clean and then you would wait forever...Uvo's Big Bang attack isn't going to be that effective, Chrollo gonna have to whip out the Haxxist of Hatsu's, Feitan should sacrafice himself and unleash a fury.....Matter Fact I don't see them winning all that much to be honest I'm just a bit biased. Everybody in the Royal Family of Ants have Aura no body can match in a fight and durability to be hit seriously by the King and only surfer a bruise.

Can we get back to making arguments for Morau being able to kill Hisoka and vice versa. Morau ain't kill that many ants by the way and hardly struck anybody physically.

Re: Hisoka vs Morel

I think that hisoka's ability is widely underestimated. Even if it seems plain and simple, hisoka can basically do anything spider man can do, and for a former member of the genei ryodan that's fun (combined with his exceptional physical abilities, according to gotoh or the raw power ranking of the spider) that is no joke, it's not the "coin throwing" made in gotoh or uvo big bang impact .
We tend to overlook his "deceitful texture" too, it's a very efficient illusion as we've seen him using it to change his prophecy in front of the whole genei ryodan, or change his list of contact without being caught while kirua was especially suspicious regarding those exacts contacts.
Morel hatsu is amazing, more versatile than hisoka's one, but we have to take into account that his technique were especially suitable with the "chimera ant mission" (infiltration, camouflage, etc).
Morel has all it takes to beat hisoka but i see this one having the advantage, in fact both hatsu are greats, but i see hisoka as more powerful in terms of aura power (aop, pop), ken , ryu etc.

@Phantron:

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Of course it probably doesn't help that the Hunter's Association become a joke with the introduction of the Zodiac. Based solely on the Election arc you can reasonably argue that the Spiders can lay siege on the Hunter's HQ if they had all their original members and hired a few Zs for combat support.

I entirely disagree, not only would they have to face the zodiac, but you can throw in the mix some other elements such as biscuit, morel , novu, knuckle, shoot, kurapika is a hunter....... There is no way the spider could take down 600 nen users.
Moreover, you seem to forget one of the hunter rules, in order to have multiple stars, you have to form gifted disciple (cf mizaistom speech for example), the zodiac is composed with star hunters such as botobai, mizaistom, cheadle, pariston, who have so powerful disciple the same way kaito was gin student, gon and kirua have biscuit for master, etc. We don't know all the capable hunters, the majority of "hunters" who get slaughtered in the manga aren't even pro.
But that's not even the way i get it, the association is ruled by the strongest members who have interest in such matters, there is a boss, the so called president, and his council as long as they have the majority , the weakest, or the average pro hunters follow their lead. But the others powerful member just don't care (i mean kirua and kurapika had more important business than the election......as well as sharnalk, hisoka, irumi,etc) so we shouldn't consider the organization as an homogeneous group. But if we take them on paper, (remembering what the spider did in york shin) they're just unbeatable in the known world by any entity.
Anyway even the current organization is too much to handle by the spider (zodiac+potential disciples....)

Re: Hisoka vs Morel

Originally Posted by Mylesime

I think that hisoka's ability is widely underestimated. Even if it seems plain and simple, hisoka can basically do anything spider man can do, and for a former member of the genei ryodan that's fun (combined with his exceptional physical abilities, according to gotoh or the raw power ranking of the spider) that is no joke, it's not the "coin throwing" made in gotoh or uvo big bang impact .

Morel has all it takes to beat hisoka but i see this one having the advantage, in fact both hatsu are greats, but i see hisoka as more powerful in terms of aura power (aop, pop), ken , ryu etc.

Exactly his Hatsu is almost genius if not the way he incorporates it into his fighting style is amazing. Even The Spider's find it to be an annoying Hatsu because they know how capable he is with such an ability and the dangers of it. And his Deceitful Texture is quite impressive that he was able to use it in front on the Spider's and no body ntoiced it, even though Chrollo looked type suspicious of him.

I believe they would be pretty close in all those Areas of AOP and KOP. Both are Nen master's and experienced in battle one just isn't much of a hands on fighter. Morel also takes his time and figure out a strategy without rushing himself working at his own pace. Hisoka on the other hand is an hands on fighter and would rush Morau or come up with a strategy to dispel his clones and close the gap between them with his Bungee Gum so he can pummel him.

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I entirely disagree, not only would they have to face the zodiac, but you can throw in the mix some other elements such as biscuit, morel , novu, knuckle, shoot, kurapika is a hunter....... There is no way the spider could take down 600 nen users.
Moreover, you seem to forget one of the hunter rules, in order to have multiple stars, you have to form gifted disciple (cf mizaistom speech for example), the zodiac is composed with star hunters such as botobai, mizaistom, cheadle, pariston, who have so powerful disciple the same way kaito was gin student, gon and kirua have biscuit for master, etc. We don't know all the capable hunters, the majority of "hunters" who get slaughtered in the manga aren't even pro.

Exactly. I don't see why that's so hard to understand. Just cause all of them may not be as strong or experienced as the Spider's doesn't say 10 random Nen users won't have deadly, life threatening or simply Hatsu's to hamper the Spider's with........EX.Wolf Dude who uses paralytic poisons instead of killing poison's, Uvo would have lost that fight if he used the later.

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But that's not even the way i get it, the association is ruled by the strongest members who have interest in such matters, there is a boss, the so called president, and his council as long as they have the majority , the weakest, or the average pro hunters follow their lead. But the others powerful member just don't care (i mean kirua and kurapika had more important business than the election......as well as sharnalk, hisoka, irumi,etc) so we shouldn't consider the organization as an homogeneous group. But if we take them on paper, (remembering what the spider did in york shin) they're just unbeatable in the known world by any entity.
Anyway even the current organization is too much to handle by the spider (zodiac+potential disciples....)

Yes, Hunter's consist of Ppl from all kinds of different Natures. And We've seen that only few are related in some type of way where you would be able to call on another Hunter or reasons why they would work together in the 1st place. They aren't an homogeneous group at all, it's an organization that grants a special person privileges, a set authority, or security clearances..They just give you a license for being the best or being capable of doing extraordinary things.