GP Matchmaking &amp; “Fluff”

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The only thing GA has proven is that player A who can easy beat player B based on GP alone. And player A somehow is entitled to do so and not be matched with other players of thier caliber. While player B has to sit and take the pounding, all the while being told how he is so inferior in his game decision and doesn't measure up. So there for don't deserve to be matched of other players of his caliber who are taking the same beating elsewhere by another Player A in a different GA setting. Congratulations player A can easily beat player B who has half as many zatas and maxed out toons.

And then there are others on the extreme that are matched with no chance of winning. I have won 3 matches 2 my opponent did not set a defense..(thank you for that I had no chance otherwise). And the other he didn't attack back..(thanks for that too because I couldn't overcome all your defenses and you would have won). But due to those oversights still did not make a good match.

I have 3.6m GP, #1 in fleet arena, top 100 arena, top 3 in HSTR (recently cleared, no treya yet. Never had more than 1 win in GA because I have every toon at lvl 85, gear to 6, abilities to 4. If it wasn't for fluff, I'd complete for #1 every time. The biggest issue I have is that there is no way to unfluff.

My first question is how do you have them at 85? I have 61 characters at lvl 1-70. I have 38 at lvl 1, I currently have 23million credits that I could level up. That is only 4 characters I could get from 1 to 85. My GP is 2.3m. My next question is why did you level everyone to 85 and Gear 6 and abilities to 3? I could never understand people who want to level all their characters. Even early when you start out it makes sense to stop leveling/gearing characters you dont see in your future. For instance I used royal guard but stopped at 5 star and lvl 70 because I got better empire/dark side characters that I thought would work out better in my long term plan.

Why? Easy answer is because I could. I had the credits and mats so I used them. Until now, there was no reason not to. Now, CG tells me that I MUST hoard all credits and mats. If I don't I'll get punished.

Let's say a pair of twins joined the game on the same day. They both developed toons exactly the same. The each have the same 80 toons, same level, same gear, same mods, same everything. We should all agree that they would be a equal match.
Now, let's say that both twins unlocked 40 more characters. Twin 1, leaves every character at lvl 1, g1. Twin 2, sees that he has thousands of extra mats and millions of credits so he levels toons to lvl 85, g7, some abilities. Enter GA, twin 1 with no fluff gets easier opponents and always gets 3 wins. Twin 2 gets a more difficult matchup because he has unusable fluff and never gets more than 1 win.
Guess what, twin 1 isn't benefiting because he "focused" and developed a better roster. Twin 1 is benefiting because he is NOT developing toons. To counter, twin 2 isn't at a disadvantage because he didn't focus. He is at a disadvantage because he used extra mats on useless toons.

Peoples priorities are different. I play for love tw/ arena first. Raids 2nd. Then tb etc last. My roster is built for that. I don't really "work" on toons til I can reach high gear. Or have a team ready. I also seldom use a zeta unless 7 star g12 with few exceptions ie traya at 5 star. So a tb oriented/collector will get murdered.

Also keep in mind they likely cannot get to complicated in matchmaking. Gp is usually a fair assumption. You will win some lose some. But could you imagine how complicated it would be to try to take into account all aspects of an account for even matching?

So when we were coached to inflate GP for TB amd then along comes TW.. And later GA.. The response by someone who started after tb and TW BOTH existed poor management?

The complication isnt. In fact the code is already there see TW. No toons can be used under 6000 GP... A simple "if then > 10000" is all it would take to remove the GP of "fluff" from counting in matchups.

GA infnitely favors accounts that came aboard after the existence of TW. And I'm ok with losing. Rewards are inintile in difference (just like tw win or loss). But (not directed specifically at you) anyone to say its fair or even close is ridiculously wrong.

Let's say a pair of twins joined the game on the same day. They both developed toons exactly the same. The each have the same 80 toons, same level, same gear, same mods, same everything. We should all agree that they would be a equal match.
Now, let's say that both twins unlocked 40 more characters. Twin 1, leaves every character at lvl 1, g1. Twin 2, sees that he has thousands of extra mats and millions of credits so he levels toons to lvl 85, g7, some abilities. Enter GA, twin 1 with no fluff gets easier opponents and always gets 3 wins. Twin 2 gets a more difficult matchup because he has unusable fluff and never gets more than 1 win.
Guess what, twin 1 isn't benefiting because he "focused" and developed a better roster. Twin 1 is benefiting because he is NOT developing toons. To counter, twin 2 isn't at a disadvantage because he didn't focus. He is at a disadvantage because he used extra mats on useless toons.

But some of that gear that is used to get to g7 is then needed for higher level gear. The credits used to get toons to lvl 85 could be used in better areas such as leveling mods to see what secondaries are on the mod (you don’t also level all mods up to 15 before selling them do you?). It is absolutely wasting resources to get toons to g7 and lvl 85 because they will never be useful for anything other than inflating your GP a small amount for TB.

I currently have almost 30 toons that are 7 star, g1, and lvl 1. I would rather save that gear to get 1 toon up to g12 than get 5 toons up to g7.

What’s the end goal with investing small amounts in all of your toons rather than large amounts in a few toons?

Let's say a pair of twins joined the game on the same day. They both developed toons exactly the same. The each have the same 80 toons, same level, same gear, same mods, same everything. We should all agree that they would be a equal match.
Now, let's say that both twins unlocked 40 more characters. Twin 1, leaves every character at lvl 1, g1. Twin 2, sees that he has thousands of extra mats and millions of credits so he levels toons to lvl 85, g7, some abilities. Enter GA, twin 1 with no fluff gets easier opponents and always gets 3 wins. Twin 2 gets a more difficult matchup because he has unusable fluff and never gets more than 1 win.
Guess what, twin 1 isn't benefiting because he "focused" and developed a better roster. Twin 1 is benefiting because he is NOT developing toons. To counter, twin 2 isn't at a disadvantage because he didn't focus. He is at a disadvantage because he used extra mats on useless toons.

But some of that gear that is used to get to g7 is then needed for higher level gear. The credits used to get toons to lvl 85 could be used in better areas such as leveling mods to see what secondaries are on the mod (you don’t also level all mods up to 15 before selling them do you?). It is absolutely wasting resources to get toons to g7 and lvl 85 because they will never be useful for anything other than inflating your GP a small amount for TB.

I currently have almost 30 toons that are 7 star, g1, and lvl 1. I would rather save that gear to get 1 toon up to g12 than get 5 toons up to g7.

What’s the end goal with investing small amounts in all of your toons rather than large amounts in a few toons?

Not a small amount at all. Total approx. fluff GP I have is about 1.3M. This cost me next to nothing besides credits which I already had an abundance of at the time. There is no end goal, game pushed us towards that and we did it.

Let's say a pair of twins joined the game on the same day. They both developed toons exactly the same. The each have the same 80 toons, same level, same gear, same mods, same everything. We should all agree that they would be a equal match.
Now, let's say that both twins unlocked 40 more characters. Twin 1, leaves every character at lvl 1, g1. Twin 2, sees that he has thousands of extra mats and millions of credits so he levels toons to lvl 85, g7, some abilities. Enter GA, twin 1 with no fluff gets easier opponents and always gets 3 wins. Twin 2 gets a more difficult matchup because he has unusable fluff and never gets more than 1 win.
Guess what, twin 1 isn't benefiting because he "focused" and developed a better roster. Twin 1 is benefiting because he is NOT developing toons. To counter, twin 2 isn't at a disadvantage because he didn't focus. He is at a disadvantage because he used extra mats on useless toons.

But some of that gear that is used to get to g7 is then needed for higher level gear. The credits used to get toons to lvl 85 could be used in better areas such as leveling mods to see what secondaries are on the mod (you don’t also level all mods up to 15 before selling them do you?). It is absolutely wasting resources to get toons to g7 and lvl 85 because they will never be useful for anything other than inflating your GP a small amount for TB.

I currently have almost 30 toons that are 7 star, g1, and lvl 1. I would rather save that gear to get 1 toon up to g12 than get 5 toons up to g7.

What’s the end goal with investing small amounts in all of your toons rather than large amounts in a few toons?

Not a small amount here either. 25 to 30% of my roster is inflated fluff... Why you ask? TB. As instructed before TW and GA made that a crippling game plan.

Kyno even you should know this algorithm is horrible because Ships over-inflate GP by a milestone. Someone farming Hounds Tooth will end up facing someone who didn't focus hard on ships. Character GP is more important since that is where the win/loss of Grand Arena will be judging from the points distribution.

EDIT: you have an olympic runner and a swimmer competing for a 100m race in this case. Just because you have two athletes that are 1st in their field competing doesn't mean its fair

we dont know all the factors involved, we dont know if GP is anything considered, or if they use just character GP. so stating it is horrible is a little unfair.

The real question here is what kind of race are you holding? The problem being brought up is you keep saying that we are running a marathon, then it's a sprint, when really we are stuck going back and forth between the two with no clear answer as to what rules we are playing by which leaves a lot of people losing no matter what they do.

Peoples priorities are different. I play for love tw/ arena first. Raids 2nd. Then tb etc last. My roster is built for that. I don't really "work" on toons til I can reach high gear. Or have a team ready. I also seldom use a zeta unless 7 star g12 with few exceptions ie traya at 5 star. So a tb oriented/collector will get murdered.

Also keep in mind they likely cannot get to complicated in matchmaking. Gp is usually a fair assumption. You will win some lose some. But could you imagine how complicated it would be to try to take into account all aspects of an account for even matching?

So when we were coached to inflate GP for TB amd then along comes TW.. And later GA.. The response by someone who started after tb and TW BOTH existed poor management?

The complication isnt. In fact the code is already there see TW. No toons can be used under 6000 GP... A simple "if then > 10000" is all it would take to remove the GP of "fluff" from counting in matchups.

GA infnitely favors accounts that came aboard after the existence of TW. And I'm ok with losing. Rewards are inintile in difference (just like tw win or loss). But (not directed specifically at you) anyone to say its fair or even close is ridiculously wrong.

I have used weak toons a few times to my advantage in GA. I've set teams of my weakest toons, saved all my strong ones for offense and won. Why shouldn't weak toons also count towards the total GP used for matchmaking?

Peoples priorities are different. I play for love tw/ arena first. Raids 2nd. Then tb etc last. My roster is built for that. I don't really "work" on toons til I can reach high gear. Or have a team ready. I also seldom use a zeta unless 7 star g12 with few exceptions ie traya at 5 star. So a tb oriented/collector will get murdered.

Also keep in mind they likely cannot get to complicated in matchmaking. Gp is usually a fair assumption. You will win some lose some. But could you imagine how complicated it would be to try to take into account all aspects of an account for even matching?

So when we were coached to inflate GP for TB amd then along comes TW.. And later GA.. The response by someone who started after tb and TW BOTH existed poor management?

The complication isnt. In fact the code is already there see TW. No toons can be used under 6000 GP... A simple "if then > 10000" is all it would take to remove the GP of "fluff" from counting in matchups.

GA infnitely favors accounts that came aboard after the existence of TW. And I'm ok with losing. Rewards are inintile in difference (just like tw win or loss). But (not directed specifically at you) anyone to say its fair or even close is ridiculously wrong.

I have used weak toons a few times to my advantage in GA. I've set teams of my weakest toons, saved all my strong ones for offense and won. Why shouldn't weak toons also count towards the total GP used for matchmaking.

Sorry bud but ill call **** on the winning. Unless your opponent didnt attack. Because a defense of your "fluff" would get your oponent a perfect score.

Now to answer your question. Ive answered the why 2 posts ago, and continued the answer in the post you quoted.

I thought that character gp was going to be used for this GA, seems to still be getting matched on total GP. Most matches put me 200k+ behind other players on character GP, that’s roughly 10 maxed G12 toons, in 3v3 that’s an extra 3 powerful squads.

Peoples priorities are different. I play for love tw/ arena first. Raids 2nd. Then tb etc last. My roster is built for that. I don't really "work" on toons til I can reach high gear. Or have a team ready. I also seldom use a zeta unless 7 star g12 with few exceptions ie traya at 5 star. So a tb oriented/collector will get murdered.

Also keep in mind they likely cannot get to complicated in matchmaking. Gp is usually a fair assumption. You will win some lose some. But could you imagine how complicated it would be to try to take into account all aspects of an account for even matching?

So when we were coached to inflate GP for TB amd then along comes TW.. And later GA.. The response by someone who started after tb and TW BOTH existed poor management?

The complication isnt. In fact the code is already there see TW. No toons can be used under 6000 GP... A simple "if then > 10000" is all it would take to remove the GP of "fluff" from counting in matchups.

GA infnitely favors accounts that came aboard after the existence of TW. And I'm ok with losing. Rewards are inintile in difference (just like tw win or loss). But (not directed specifically at you) anyone to say its fair or even close is ridiculously wrong.

I have used weak toons a few times to my advantage in GA. I've set teams of my weakest toons, saved all my strong ones for offense and won. Why shouldn't weak toons also count towards the total GP used for matchmaking.

Sorry bud but ill call **** on the winning. Unless your opponent didnt attack. Because a defense of your "fluff" would get your oponent a perfect score.

Now to answer your question. Ive answered the why 2 posts ago, and continued the answer in the post you quoted.

Well, it's a valid strategy, and it can win the game for you:

If you believe, that your defensive fleet will survive and you are at a big disadvantage in characters, then put up a Chewie defense (weak defense) and save all your strong and mediocre characters for offense. All,of them. It works. It gave my alt the third victory in the most recent GA. I took screenshots, since I ended up discussing the strategy in another recent thread. So....call whatever you want. It just shows, that you're missing one tool in your toolbox for GA.

So again:
When weak characters can help you win a GA, why should their GP not count towards your roster GP used for matchmaking?
All your answers so far assume, that characters below... was it 10k GP? ... are useless in GA, when in fact they are not.

I have 3.6m GP, #1 in fleet arena, top 100 arena, top 3 in HSTR (recently cleared, no treya yet. Never had more than 1 win in GA because I have every toon at lvl 85, gear to 6, abilities to 4. If it wasn't for fluff, I'd complete for #1 every time. The biggest issue I have is that there is no way to unfluff.

So, you do great in fleet, great in arena, great in TB and you rock TW...... But now that that a game mode comes out that doesnt suit your style of roster development, you want to ungear everything you used in the past to get you where you are?......

Lots of people complaining here and all agree that it should NOT only be GP to determine the initial grouping, as some very unfair match-ups can result for various reasons. The most logical next metric to add would be arena ranking in both arenas ship & Squad, this accounts for things like mods, gear level on best squads in both arenas etc. This is probably 3 - 5 lines of code to add to the Algo and will make a HUGE difference in the fairness of match-ups, please ASAP for all.

After months of reading forum opinions I still say the matchmaking is fair (except for the fleet/ground troops separation which they will work on). GP is a very good way to determine fitting opponents because in the end it's all about how the player decided to invest in his roster. I am a launch player and at no single point in the game did I feel "pushed" to work on fluff characters, like some people mentioned. There is absolutely no reason to level/gear random toons if you aren't going to use them. If they are needed for platoons, get them to 7* and leave them at g1 level 1. There is no reason to get them to g8 and level 85 if you're not going to use them except for a small TW bonus. And no one is forcing you to do so. Nowhere does the game say you SHOULD upgrade everything to g8 level 85, so if you do it, it's YOUR choice. If your guild forces it, change guilds if it bothers you, or do it, but then don't complain. I don't see a reason for levelling useless toons (only stars are an exception because of platoons) so I don't. It doesn't matter whether GA did or didn't exist when you decided to invest into fluff, because it was YOUR CHOICE. No one forced you to do it. You could have just left them at g1 level 1. As I said, I'm a launch player and I didn't invest in fluff. That was my choice as well and you could have done the same. If the game ever FORCED you to invest in fluff, I would own more fluff as well, but it didn't. It's all a CHOICE. You alone decide on how you want to play and if certain modes don't cater to your playing style, that's on you. I don't have Traya or Revan but I don't complain about facing them in GA or TW because it's my own fault that I don't have them. Again this is a CHOICE. I could have had both had I chose my path in the game differently, so that's on me. If a player beats you in GA then he deserves it, because he was better at decision making throughout the game, simple as that. I have won all my GA matches except for 1 since the mode got released and the one time I lost I congratulated my opponent and complimented his teams and skills. He deserved the victory and I was neither mad, sad nor upset about the loss. He beat me fair and square and we even had a great chat after the match was over. (Little side note: I've had some greate post match chats after GA games so props to the community for being so friendly and for appreciating fairplay). But back to my point: EVERYTHING you do in the game is a choice, EVERYTHING. So if something happens then it's all on you because you were the one who decided to go with whatever you did (except for cases with bugs/wais which is on the devs).

Let's say a pair of twins joined the game on the same day. They both developed toons exactly the same. The each have the same 80 toons, same level, same gear, same mods, same everything. We should all agree that they would be a equal match.
Now, let's say that both twins unlocked 40 more characters. Twin 1, leaves every character at lvl 1, g1. Twin 2, sees that he has thousands of extra mats and millions of credits so he levels toons to lvl 85, g7, some abilities. Enter GA, twin 1 with no fluff gets easier opponents and always gets 3 wins. Twin 2 gets a more difficult matchup because he has unusable fluff and never gets more than 1 win.
Guess what, twin 1 isn't benefiting because he "focused" and developed a better roster. Twin 1 is benefiting because he is NOT developing toons. To counter, twin 2 isn't at a disadvantage because he didn't focus. He is at a disadvantage because he used extra mats on useless toons.

But some of that gear that is used to get to g7 is then needed for higher level gear. The credits used to get toons to lvl 85 could be used in better areas such as leveling mods to see what secondaries are on the mod (you don’t also level all mods up to 15 before selling them do you?). It is absolutely wasting resources to get toons to g7 and lvl 85 because they will never be useful for anything other than inflating your GP a small amount for TB.

I currently have almost 30 toons that are 7 star, g1, and lvl 1. I would rather save that gear to get 1 toon up to g12 than get 5 toons up to g7.

What’s the end goal with investing small amounts in all of your toons rather than large amounts in a few toons?

Not a small amount at all. Total approx. fluff GP I have is about 1.3M. This cost me next to nothing besides credits which I already had an abundance of at the time. There is no end goal, game pushed us towards that and we did it.

Sorry, I should have clarified that by small amount, I meant small relative to the gains for TB. I can see why it’s hurting you, but I would never do it for TB because I could see even at the release that it would hurt you in the long run (inability to gear to high level).

Let's say a pair of twins joined the game on the same day. They both developed toons exactly the same. The each have the same 80 toons, same level, same gear, same mods, same everything. We should all agree that they would be a equal match.
Now, let's say that both twins unlocked 40 more characters. Twin 1, leaves every character at lvl 1, g1. Twin 2, sees that he has thousands of extra mats and millions of credits so he levels toons to lvl 85, g7, some abilities. Enter GA, twin 1 with no fluff gets easier opponents and always gets 3 wins. Twin 2 gets a more difficult matchup because he has unusable fluff and never gets more than 1 win.
Guess what, twin 1 isn't benefiting because he "focused" and developed a better roster. Twin 1 is benefiting because he is NOT developing toons. To counter, twin 2 isn't at a disadvantage because he didn't focus. He is at a disadvantage because he used extra mats on useless toons.

But some of that gear that is used to get to g7 is then needed for higher level gear. The credits used to get toons to lvl 85 could be used in better areas such as leveling mods to see what secondaries are on the mod (you don’t also level all mods up to 15 before selling them do you?). It is absolutely wasting resources to get toons to g7 and lvl 85 because they will never be useful for anything other than inflating your GP a small amount for TB.

I currently have almost 30 toons that are 7 star, g1, and lvl 1. I would rather save that gear to get 1 toon up to g12 than get 5 toons up to g7.

What’s the end goal with investing small amounts in all of your toons rather than large amounts in a few toons?

Not a small amount at all. Total approx. fluff GP I have is about 1.3M. This cost me next to nothing besides credits which I already had an abundance of at the time. There is no end goal, game pushed us towards that and we did it.

Sorry, I should have clarified that by small amount, I meant small relative to the gains for TB. I can see why it’s hurting you, but I would never do it for TB because I could see even at the release that it would hurt you in the long run (inability to gear to high level).

Let's say a pair of twins joined the game on the same day. They both developed toons exactly the same. The each have the same 80 toons, same level, same gear, same mods, same everything. We should all agree that they would be a equal match.
Now, let's say that both twins unlocked 40 more characters. Twin 1, leaves every character at lvl 1, g1. Twin 2, sees that he has thousands of extra mats and millions of credits so he levels toons to lvl 85, g7, some abilities. Enter GA, twin 1 with no fluff gets easier opponents and always gets 3 wins. Twin 2 gets a more difficult matchup because he has unusable fluff and never gets more than 1 win.
Guess what, twin 1 isn't benefiting because he "focused" and developed a better roster. Twin 1 is benefiting because he is NOT developing toons. To counter, twin 2 isn't at a disadvantage because he didn't focus. He is at a disadvantage because he used extra mats on useless toons.

But some of that gear that is used to get to g7 is then needed for higher level gear. The credits used to get toons to lvl 85 could be used in better areas such as leveling mods to see what secondaries are on the mod (you don’t also level all mods up to 15 before selling them do you?). It is absolutely wasting resources to get toons to g7 and lvl 85 because they will never be useful for anything other than inflating your GP a small amount for TB.

I currently have almost 30 toons that are 7 star, g1, and lvl 1. I would rather save that gear to get 1 toon up to g12 than get 5 toons up to g7.

What’s the end goal with investing small amounts in all of your toons rather than large amounts in a few toons?

Not a small amount at all. Total approx. fluff GP I have is about 1.3M. This cost me next to nothing besides credits which I already had an abundance of at the time. There is no end goal, game pushed us towards that and we did it.

Sorry, I should have clarified that by small amount, I meant small relative to the gains for TB. I can see why it’s hurting you, but I would never do it for TB because I could see even at the release that it would hurt you in the long run (inability to gear to high level).

Im sorry but exactly how does that work? What stops anyone who fluffed , from upgrading gear to high lvl.
Its like talking to brick walls, none of the gear used to fluff is in short supply and noone who fluffed is short credits , so , how exactly does it stop gearing high lvl chatacters????
If yall want to keep your easy wins just say so , stop with all this , i built my roster smarter crap lol.

After months of reading forum opinions I still say the matchmaking is fair (except for the fleet/ground troops separation which they will work on). GP is a very good way to determine fitting opponents because in the end it's all about how the player decided to invest in his roster. I am a launch player and at no single point in the game did I feel "pushed" to work on fluff characters, like some people mentioned. There is absolutely no reason to level/gear random toons if you aren't going to use them. If they are needed for platoons, get them to 7* and leave them at g1 level 1. There is no reason to get them to g8 and level 85 if you're not going to use them except for a small TW bonus. And no one is forcing you to do so. Nowhere does the game say you SHOULD upgrade everything to g8 level 85, so if you do it, it's YOUR choice. If your guild forces it, change guilds if it bothers you, or do it, but then don't complain. I don't see a reason for levelling useless toons (only stars are an exception because of platoons) so I don't. It doesn't matter whether GA did or didn't exist when you decided to invest into fluff, because it was YOUR CHOICE. No one forced you to do it. You could have just left them at g1 level 1. As I said, I'm a launch player and I didn't invest in fluff. That was my choice as well and you could have done the same. If the game ever FORCED you to invest in fluff, I would own more fluff as well, but it didn't. It's all a CHOICE. You alone decide on how you want to play and if certain modes don't cater to your playing style, that's on you. I don't have Traya or Revan but I don't complain about facing them in GA or TW because it's my own fault that I don't have them. Again this is a CHOICE. I could have had both had I chose my path in the game differently, so that's on me. If a player beats you in GA then he deserves it, because he was better at decision making throughout the game, simple as that. I have won all my GA matches except for 1 since the mode got released and the one time I lost I congratulated my opponent and complimented his teams and skills. He deserved the victory and I was neither mad, sad nor upset about the loss. He beat me fair and square and we even had a great chat after the match was over. (Little side note: I've had some greate post match chats after GA games so props to the community for being so friendly and for appreciating fairplay). But back to my point: EVERYTHING you do in the game is a choice, EVERYTHING. So if something happens then it's all on you because you were the one who decided to go with whatever you did (except for cases with bugs/wais which is on the devs).

Just my 2 cents on that topic.

You hear of paper zombie? You know the time CG specifically stated that players should never benefit from not gearing toons? You also speak of choice using extreme ex post facto logic. Yes I made a choice to gear fluff but guess what, it wasnt fluff when I did it. The rules were changed after the fact. Additionally you say you made the choice to not unlock Revan. Ok, in the future you can change your mind. As of yet, I cant ungear or unlevel a character. Under this system, I will ALWAYS be at a disadvantage because of fluff.

I have 3.6m GP, #1 in fleet arena, top 100 arena, top 3 in HSTR (recently cleared, no treya yet. Never had more than 1 win in GA because I have every toon at lvl 85, gear to 6, abilities to 4. If it wasn't for fluff, I'd complete for #1 every time. The biggest issue I have is that there is no way to unfluff.

So, you do great in fleet, great in arena, great in TB and you rock TW...... But now that that a game mode comes out that doesnt suit your style of roster development, you want to ungear everything you used in the past to get you where you are?......

Let's say a pair of twins joined the game on the same day. They both developed toons exactly the same. The each have the same 80 toons, same level, same gear, same mods, same everything. We should all agree that they would be a equal match.
Now, let's say that both twins unlocked 40 more characters. Twin 1, leaves every character at lvl 1, g1. Twin 2, sees that he has thousands of extra mats and millions of credits so he levels toons to lvl 85, g7, some abilities. Enter GA, twin 1 with no fluff gets easier opponents and always gets 3 wins. Twin 2 gets a more difficult matchup because he has unusable fluff and never gets more than 1 win.
Guess what, twin 1 isn't benefiting because he "focused" and developed a better roster. Twin 1 is benefiting because he is NOT developing toons. To counter, twin 2 isn't at a disadvantage because he didn't focus. He is at a disadvantage because he used extra mats on useless toons.

But some of that gear that is used to get to g7 is then needed for higher level gear. The credits used to get toons to lvl 85 could be used in better areas such as leveling mods to see what secondaries are on the mod (you don’t also level all mods up to 15 before selling them do you?). It is absolutely wasting resources to get toons to g7 and lvl 85 because they will never be useful for anything other than inflating your GP a small amount for TB.

I currently have almost 30 toons that are 7 star, g1, and lvl 1. I would rather save that gear to get 1 toon up to g12 than get 5 toons up to g7.

What’s the end goal with investing small amounts in all of your toons rather than large amounts in a few toons?

Not a small amount at all. Total approx. fluff GP I have is about 1.3M. This cost me next to nothing besides credits which I already had an abundance of at the time. There is no end goal, game pushed us towards that and we did it.

Sorry, I should have clarified that by small amount, I meant small relative to the gains for TB. I can see why it’s hurting you, but I would never do it for TB because I could see even at the release that it would hurt you in the long run (inability to gear to high level).

How's 1/3 of my GP small gain for TB? And how did you see it would hurt us in the long run?

Let's say a pair of twins joined the game on the same day. They both developed toons exactly the same. The each have the same 80 toons, same level, same gear, same mods, same everything. We should all agree that they would be a equal match.
Now, let's say that both twins unlocked 40 more characters. Twin 1, leaves every character at lvl 1, g1. Twin 2, sees that he has thousands of extra mats and millions of credits so he levels toons to lvl 85, g7, some abilities. Enter GA, twin 1 with no fluff gets easier opponents and always gets 3 wins. Twin 2 gets a more difficult matchup because he has unusable fluff and never gets more than 1 win.
Guess what, twin 1 isn't benefiting because he "focused" and developed a better roster. Twin 1 is benefiting because he is NOT developing toons. To counter, twin 2 isn't at a disadvantage because he didn't focus. He is at a disadvantage because he used extra mats on useless toons.

But some of that gear that is used to get to g7 is then needed for higher level gear. The credits used to get toons to lvl 85 could be used in better areas such as leveling mods to see what secondaries are on the mod (you don’t also level all mods up to 15 before selling them do you?). It is absolutely wasting resources to get toons to g7 and lvl 85 because they will never be useful for anything other than inflating your GP a small amount for TB.

I currently have almost 30 toons that are 7 star, g1, and lvl 1. I would rather save that gear to get 1 toon up to g12 than get 5 toons up to g7.

What’s the end goal with investing small amounts in all of your toons rather than large amounts in a few toons?

Not a small amount at all. Total approx. fluff GP I have is about 1.3M. This cost me next to nothing besides credits which I already had an abundance of at the time. There is no end goal, game pushed us towards that and we did it.

Sorry, I should have clarified that by small amount, I meant small relative to the gains for TB. I can see why it’s hurting you, but I would never do it for TB because I could see even at the release that it would hurt you in the long run (inability to gear to high level).

Im sorry but exactly how does that work? What stops anyone who fluffed , from upgrading gear to high lvl.
Its like talking to brick walls, none of the gear used to fluff is in short supply and noone who fluffed is short credits , so , how exactly does it stop gearing high lvl chatacters????
If yall want to keep your easy wins just say so , stop with all this , i built my roster smarter crap lol.

If you look at the components for gear (using stun guns for instance), you’ll see both high level and low level gear. It takes carbantis, stun guns, and that green piece of gear that’s used for low levels. If I use those green pieces to get toons to g7 then I have fewer to use on high level gear. If I then use energy to replace those pieces, it’s energy I could have spent on carbantis. You may not see it as short supply of gear because it’s easy to replace, but wasting that gear on g7 toons that you won’t use prevents you from doing other things later on.

Let's say a pair of twins joined the game on the same day. They both developed toons exactly the same. The each have the same 80 toons, same level, same gear, same mods, same everything. We should all agree that they would be a equal match.
Now, let's say that both twins unlocked 40 more characters. Twin 1, leaves every character at lvl 1, g1. Twin 2, sees that he has thousands of extra mats and millions of credits so he levels toons to lvl 85, g7, some abilities. Enter GA, twin 1 with no fluff gets easier opponents and always gets 3 wins. Twin 2 gets a more difficult matchup because he has unusable fluff and never gets more than 1 win.
Guess what, twin 1 isn't benefiting because he "focused" and developed a better roster. Twin 1 is benefiting because he is NOT developing toons. To counter, twin 2 isn't at a disadvantage because he didn't focus. He is at a disadvantage because he used extra mats on useless toons.

But some of that gear that is used to get to g7 is then needed for higher level gear. The credits used to get toons to lvl 85 could be used in better areas such as leveling mods to see what secondaries are on the mod (you don’t also level all mods up to 15 before selling them do you?). It is absolutely wasting resources to get toons to g7 and lvl 85 because they will never be useful for anything other than inflating your GP a small amount for TB.

I currently have almost 30 toons that are 7 star, g1, and lvl 1. I would rather save that gear to get 1 toon up to g12 than get 5 toons up to g7.

What’s the end goal with investing small amounts in all of your toons rather than large amounts in a few toons?

Not a small amount at all. Total approx. fluff GP I have is about 1.3M. This cost me next to nothing besides credits which I already had an abundance of at the time. There is no end goal, game pushed us towards that and we did it.

Sorry, I should have clarified that by small amount, I meant small relative to the gains for TB. I can see why it’s hurting you, but I would never do it for TB because I could see even at the release that it would hurt you in the long run (inability to gear to high level).

How's 1/3 of my GP small gain for TB? And how did you see it would hurt us in the long run?

For later phases, your guild will need 130 million or more to 3 star each phase. Best case, you’re providing an extra 1% through deployment at the sacrifice of gear for other toons that could develop to g12 and contribute for raids or future arena teams.

Your case could be different than most I’ve seen though. Is the rest of your roster capable of competing in HSTR and all other aspects of the game?

Let's say a pair of twins joined the game on the same day. They both developed toons exactly the same. The each have the same 80 toons, same level, same gear, same mods, same everything. We should all agree that they would be a equal match.
Now, let's say that both twins unlocked 40 more characters. Twin 1, leaves every character at lvl 1, g1. Twin 2, sees that he has thousands of extra mats and millions of credits so he levels toons to lvl 85, g7, some abilities. Enter GA, twin 1 with no fluff gets easier opponents and always gets 3 wins. Twin 2 gets a more difficult matchup because he has unusable fluff and never gets more than 1 win.
Guess what, twin 1 isn't benefiting because he "focused" and developed a better roster. Twin 1 is benefiting because he is NOT developing toons. To counter, twin 2 isn't at a disadvantage because he didn't focus. He is at a disadvantage because he used extra mats on useless toons.

But some of that gear that is used to get to g7 is then needed for higher level gear. The credits used to get toons to lvl 85 could be used in better areas such as leveling mods to see what secondaries are on the mod (you don’t also level all mods up to 15 before selling them do you?). It is absolutely wasting resources to get toons to g7 and lvl 85 because they will never be useful for anything other than inflating your GP a small amount for TB.

I currently have almost 30 toons that are 7 star, g1, and lvl 1. I would rather save that gear to get 1 toon up to g12 than get 5 toons up to g7.

What’s the end goal with investing small amounts in all of your toons rather than large amounts in a few toons?

Not a small amount at all. Total approx. fluff GP I have is about 1.3M. This cost me next to nothing besides credits which I already had an abundance of at the time. There is no end goal, game pushed us towards that and we did it.

Sorry, I should have clarified that by small amount, I meant small relative to the gains for TB. I can see why it’s hurting you, but I would never do it for TB because I could see even at the release that it would hurt you in the long run (inability to gear to high level).

How's 1/3 of my GP small gain for TB? And how did you see it would hurt us in the long run?

For later phases, your guild will need 130 million or more to 3 star each phase. Best case, you’re providing an extra 1% through deployment at the sacrifice of gear for other toons that could develop to g12 and contribute for raids or future arena teams.

Your case could be different than most I’ve seen though. Is the rest of your roster capable of competing in HSTR and all other aspects of the game?

You seem to be only considering my contribution while it takes everyone to contribute to some degree. Overall it made a huge difference for our TB prowess. Of course if we were to foresee what will come later I'd forego of it still.

You can check my sig for swgoh.gg profile. I checked both ours. Even with the crazy amount of fluff I have the difference is significant (and I'm f2p). If I didn't feel lazy I'd compare -gear needed- the website provides for each of us to debunk your claim. The totality of gear upto purple gear I need vs. you need is only a few days of farming which is nothing in the long run. This is also evidenced by the difference of premium gear I used in my roster vs. yours. Ofc I never used carbantis, stun guns etc. just to push toons I won't use to g7-8. That's the main idea of efficient fluffing.

Either case even with all my baggage I'm hyper competetive and won all my matches in GA besides one (that I would lose even if it was repeated 100 times because of the huge difference in mods).

My problem overall is with the GP calculation itself. It's nowhere near representative of either the usefulness of fluff toon vs. a maxed toon or the resources spent for a fluff toon vs. maxed toon (approx. 10k vs 20-24k GP). If it was I would have nothing to say about it, since I would be getting exactly what I paid for.

Let's say a pair of twins joined the game on the same day. They both developed toons exactly the same. The each have the same 80 toons, same level, same gear, same mods, same everything. We should all agree that they would be a equal match.
Now, let's say that both twins unlocked 40 more characters. Twin 1, leaves every character at lvl 1, g1. Twin 2, sees that he has thousands of extra mats and millions of credits so he levels toons to lvl 85, g7, some abilities. Enter GA, twin 1 with no fluff gets easier opponents and always gets 3 wins. Twin 2 gets a more difficult matchup because he has unusable fluff and never gets more than 1 win.
Guess what, twin 1 isn't benefiting because he "focused" and developed a better roster. Twin 1 is benefiting because he is NOT developing toons. To counter, twin 2 isn't at a disadvantage because he didn't focus. He is at a disadvantage because he used extra mats on useless toons.

But some of that gear that is used to get to g7 is then needed for higher level gear. The credits used to get toons to lvl 85 could be used in better areas such as leveling mods to see what secondaries are on the mod (you don’t also level all mods up to 15 before selling them do you?). It is absolutely wasting resources to get toons to g7 and lvl 85 because they will never be useful for anything other than inflating your GP a small amount for TB.

I currently have almost 30 toons that are 7 star, g1, and lvl 1. I would rather save that gear to get 1 toon up to g12 than get 5 toons up to g7.

What’s the end goal with investing small amounts in all of your toons rather than large amounts in a few toons?

Not a small amount at all. Total approx. fluff GP I have is about 1.3M. This cost me next to nothing besides credits which I already had an abundance of at the time. There is no end goal, game pushed us towards that and we did it.

Sorry, I should have clarified that by small amount, I meant small relative to the gains for TB. I can see why it’s hurting you, but I would never do it for TB because I could see even at the release that it would hurt you in the long run (inability to gear to high level).

How's 1/3 of my GP small gain for TB? And how did you see it would hurt us in the long run?

For later phases, your guild will need 130 million or more to 3 star each phase. Best case, you’re providing an extra 1% through deployment at the sacrifice of gear for other toons that could develop to g12 and contribute for raids or future arena teams.

Your case could be different than most I’ve seen though. Is the rest of your roster capable of competing in HSTR and all other aspects of the game?

You seem to be only considering my contribution while it takes everyone to contribute to some degree. Overall it made a huge difference for our TB prowess. Of course if we were to foresee what will come later I'd forego of it still.

You can check my sig for swgoh.gg profile. I checked both ours. Even with the crazy amount of fluff I have the difference is significant (and I'm f2p). If I didn't feel lazy I'd compare -gear needed- the website provides for each of us to debunk your claim. The totality of gear upto purple gear I need vs. you need is only a few days of farming which is nothing in the long run. This is also evidenced by the difference of premium gear I used in my roster vs. yours. Ofc I never used carbantis, stun guns etc. just to push toons I won't use to g7-8. That's the main idea of efficient fluffing.

Either case even with all my baggage I'm hyper competetive and won all my matches in GA besides one (that I would lose even if it was repeated 100 times because of the huge difference in mods).

My problem overall is with the GP calculation itself. It's nowhere near representative of either the usefulness of fluff toon vs. a maxed toon or the resources spent for a fluff toon vs. maxed toon (approx. 10k vs 20-24k GP). If it was I would have nothing to say about it, since I would be getting exactly what I paid for.

That’s fair. I have a similar complaint on how ship GP is compared to squad GP for matchmaking relative to points earned in GA. I can imagine if I had a well developed roster at the time of TB release, I might have fluffed as there wouldn’t be much else to do with my resources. Most likely though, I would and continue to save my resources for future releases in order reduce downtime for upgrading toons (I’m f2p too).

For my claim on the gear, just look at various pieces of gear that have low level components. If you have thousands of them, it’s because they’re not used much. If you just have a few, it’s because they’re used often (generally a good basis).

After months of reading forum opinions I still say the matchmaking is fair (except for the fleet/ground troops separation which they will work on). GP is a very good way to determine fitting opponents because in the end it's all about how the player decided to invest in his roster. I am a launch player and at no single point in the game did I feel "pushed" to work on fluff characters, like some people mentioned. There is absolutely no reason to level/gear random toons if you aren't going to use them. If they are needed for platoons, get them to 7* and leave them at g1 level 1. There is no reason to get them to g8 and level 85 if you're not going to use them except for a small TW bonus. And no one is forcing you to do so. Nowhere does the game say you SHOULD upgrade everything to g8 level 85, so if you do it, it's YOUR choice. If your guild forces it, change guilds if it bothers you, or do it, but then don't complain. I don't see a reason for levelling useless toons (only stars are an exception because of platoons) so I don't. It doesn't matter whether GA did or didn't exist when you decided to invest into fluff, because it was YOUR CHOICE. No one forced you to do it. You could have just left them at g1 level 1. As I said, I'm a launch player and I didn't invest in fluff. That was my choice as well and you could have done the same. If the game ever FORCED you to invest in fluff, I would own more fluff as well, but it didn't. It's all a CHOICE. You alone decide on how you want to play and if certain modes don't cater to your playing style, that's on you. I don't have Traya or Revan but I don't complain about facing them in GA or TW because it's my own fault that I don't have them. Again this is a CHOICE. I could have had both had I chose my path in the game differently, so that's on me. If a player beats you in GA then he deserves it, because he was better at decision making throughout the game, simple as that. I have won all my GA matches except for 1 since the mode got released and the one time I lost I congratulated my opponent and complimented his teams and skills. He deserved the victory and I was neither mad, sad nor upset about the loss. He beat me fair and square and we even had a great chat after the match was over. (Little side note: I've had some greate post match chats after GA games so props to the community for being so friendly and for appreciating fairplay). But back to my point: EVERYTHING you do in the game is a choice, EVERYTHING. So if something happens then it's all on you because you were the one who decided to go with whatever you did (except for cases with bugs/wais which is on the devs).

Just my 2 cents on that topic.

You hear of paper zombie? You know the time CG specifically stated that players should never benefit from not gearing toons? You also speak of choice using extreme ex post facto logic. Yes I made a choice to gear fluff but guess what, it wasnt fluff when I did it. The rules were changed after the fact. Additionally you say you made the choice to not unlock Revan. Ok, in the future you can change your mind. As of yet, I cant ungear or unlevel a character. Under this system, I will ALWAYS be at a disadvantage because of fluff.

Yeah, fair enough. Players should not have better results with undergeared toons in the same composition as with their geared counterparts. Zombie was really a unique case and it was kinda imbalanced, plus they fixed it eventually. So the paper Zombie isn't really a good argument anymore. But also, do you really benefit from getting useless toons to g8 level 85? Aside from a small push for TB you gain absolutely nothing from it. Also, it'd only be somewhat justified if you've done ALL your fluffing before TW got released. Because after TW got released it was obvious that you shouldn't gear useless stuff because it would make your guild's GP inefficient due to harder matchups. So it's not like GA is at fault. So unless all your fluffing was before TW got introduced, your argument is invalid because you could have stopped fluffing once TW arrived. If you even have one toon above g1 level 1 that got released after TW and that you don't use, it's your fault/your choice to do so, and you can't really complain about the current situation as you willingly decided to continue fluffing even after TW was out. Might sound a bit harsh but no offense intented btw.

After months of reading forum opinions I still say the matchmaking is fair (except for the fleet/ground troops separation which they will work on). GP is a very good way to determine fitting opponents because in the end it's all about how the player decided to invest in his roster. I am a launch player and at no single point in the game did I feel "pushed" to work on fluff characters, like some people mentioned. There is absolutely no reason to level/gear random toons if you aren't going to use them. If they are needed for platoons, get them to 7* and leave them at g1 level 1. There is no reason to get them to g8 and level 85 if you're not going to use them except for a small TW bonus. And no one is forcing you to do so. Nowhere does the game say you SHOULD upgrade everything to g8 level 85, so if you do it, it's YOUR choice. If your guild forces it, change guilds if it bothers you, or do it, but then don't complain. I don't see a reason for levelling useless toons (only stars are an exception because of platoons) so I don't. It doesn't matter whether GA did or didn't exist when you decided to invest into fluff, because it was YOUR CHOICE. No one forced you to do it. You could have just left them at g1 level 1. As I said, I'm a launch player and I didn't invest in fluff. That was my choice as well and you could have done the same. If the game ever FORCED you to invest in fluff, I would own more fluff as well, but it didn't. It's all a CHOICE. You alone decide on how you want to play and if certain modes don't cater to your playing style, that's on you. I don't have Traya or Revan but I don't complain about facing them in GA or TW because it's my own fault that I don't have them. Again this is a CHOICE. I could have had both had I chose my path in the game differently, so that's on me. If a player beats you in GA then he deserves it, because he was better at decision making throughout the game, simple as that. I have won all my GA matches except for 1 since the mode got released and the one time I lost I congratulated my opponent and complimented his teams and skills. He deserved the victory and I was neither mad, sad nor upset about the loss. He beat me fair and square and we even had a great chat after the match was over. (Little side note: I've had some greate post match chats after GA games so props to the community for being so friendly and for appreciating fairplay). But back to my point: EVERYTHING you do in the game is a choice, EVERYTHING. So if something happens then it's all on you because you were the one who decided to go with whatever you did (except for cases with bugs/wais which is on the devs).

Just my 2 cents on that topic.

You hear of paper zombie? You know the time CG specifically stated that players should never benefit from not gearing toons? You also speak of choice using extreme ex post facto logic. Yes I made a choice to gear fluff but guess what, it wasnt fluff when I did it. The rules were changed after the fact. Additionally you say you made the choice to not unlock Revan. Ok, in the future you can change your mind. As of yet, I cant ungear or unlevel a character. Under this system, I will ALWAYS be at a disadvantage because of fluff.

Yeah, fair enough. Players should not have better results with undergeared toons in the same composition as with their geared counterparts. Zombie was really a unique case and it was kinda imbalanced, plus they fixed it eventually. So the paper Zombie isn't really a good argument anymore. But also, do you really benefit from getting useless toons to g8 level 85? Aside from a small push for TB you gain absolutely nothing from it. Also, it'd only be somewhat justified if you've done ALL your fluffing before TW got released. Because after TW got released it was obvious that you shouldn't gear useless stuff because it would make your guild's GP inefficient due to harder matchups. So it's not like GA is at fault. So unless all your fluffing was before TW got introduced, your argument is invalid because you could have stopped fluffing once TW arrived. If you even have one toon above g1 level 1 that got released after TW and that you don't use, it's your fault/your choice to do so, and you can't really complain about the current situation as you willingly decided to continue fluffing even after TW was out. Might sound a bit harsh but no offense intented btw.

Edit: fixed typo

If we are getting next to no usefulness out of the fluffed toons why is a fluff toon worth almost %50 GP of the maxed version of that toon? Should make on think.

Let's say a pair of twins joined the game on the same day. They both developed toons exactly the same. The each have the same 80 toons, same level, same gear, same mods, same everything. We should all agree that they would be a equal match.
Now, let's say that both twins unlocked 40 more characters. Twin 1, leaves every character at lvl 1, g1. Twin 2, sees that he has thousands of extra mats and millions of credits so he levels toons to lvl 85, g7, some abilities. Enter GA, twin 1 with no fluff gets easier opponents and always gets 3 wins. Twin 2 gets a more difficult matchup because he has unusable fluff and never gets more than 1 win.
Guess what, twin 1 isn't benefiting because he "focused" and developed a better roster. Twin 1 is benefiting because he is NOT developing toons. To counter, twin 2 isn't at a disadvantage because he didn't focus. He is at a disadvantage because he used extra mats on useless toons.

But some of that gear that is used to get to g7 is then needed for higher level gear. The credits used to get toons to lvl 85 could be used in better areas such as leveling mods to see what secondaries are on the mod (you don’t also level all mods up to 15 before selling them do you?). It is absolutely wasting resources to get toons to g7 and lvl 85 because they will never be useful for anything other than inflating your GP a small amount for TB.

I currently have almost 30 toons that are 7 star, g1, and lvl 1. I would rather save that gear to get 1 toon up to g12 than get 5 toons up to g7.

What’s the end goal with investing small amounts in all of your toons rather than large amounts in a few toons?

Not a small amount at all. Total approx. fluff GP I have is about 1.3M. This cost me next to nothing besides credits which I already had an abundance of at the time. There is no end goal, game pushed us towards that and we did it.

Sorry, I should have clarified that by small amount, I meant small relative to the gains for TB. I can see why it’s hurting you, but I would never do it for TB because I could see even at the release that it would hurt you in the long run (inability to gear to high level).

How's 1/3 of my GP small gain for TB? And how did you see it would hurt us in the long run?

For later phases, your guild will need 130 million or more to 3 star each phase. Best case, you’re providing an extra 1% through deployment at the sacrifice of gear for other toons that could develop to g12 and contribute for raids or future arena teams.

Your case could be different than most I’ve seen though. Is the rest of your roster capable of competing in HSTR and all other aspects of the game?

You seem to be only considering my contribution while it takes everyone to contribute to some degree. Overall it made a huge difference for our TB prowess. Of course if we were to foresee what will come later I'd forego of it still.

You can check my sig for swgoh.gg profile. I checked both ours. Even with the crazy amount of fluff I have the difference is significant (and I'm f2p). If I didn't feel lazy I'd compare -gear needed- the website provides for each of us to debunk your claim. The totality of gear upto purple gear I need vs. you need is only a few days of farming which is nothing in the long run. This is also evidenced by the difference of premium gear I used in my roster vs. yours. Ofc I never used carbantis, stun guns etc. just to push toons I won't use to g7-8. That's the main idea of efficient fluffing.

Either case even with all my baggage I'm hyper competetive and won all my matches in GA besides one (that I would lose even if it was repeated 100 times because of the huge difference in mods).

My problem overall is with the GP calculation itself. It's nowhere near representative of either the usefulness of fluff toon vs. a maxed toon or the resources spent for a fluff toon vs. maxed toon (approx. 10k vs 20-24k GP). If it was I would have nothing to say about it, since I would be getting exactly what I paid for.

That’s fair. I have a similar complaint on how ship GP is compared to squad GP for matchmaking relative to points earned in GA. I can imagine if I had a well developed roster at the time of TB release, I might have fluffed as there wouldn’t be much else to do with my resources. Most likely though, I would and continue to save my resources for future releases in order reduce downtime for upgrading toons (I’m f2p too).

For my claim on the gear, just look at various pieces of gear that have low level components. If you have thousands of them, it’s because they’re not used much. If you just have a few, it’s because they’re used often (generally a good basis).

We have, what low level gear do you have lots more than me of? Since you do such a great job of saving all of your low level gear? None because its a bad lie, no gear used for g7 and below is needed and not plentiful. There is only one toon in yhe game who uses any sort of good gear at g7 and thats cancerous ordo and his insane gear 7 and 8 requirements.

Let's say a pair of twins joined the game on the same day. They both developed toons exactly the same. The each have the same 80 toons, same level, same gear, same mods, same everything. We should all agree that they would be a equal match.
Now, let's say that both twins unlocked 40 more characters. Twin 1, leaves every character at lvl 1, g1. Twin 2, sees that he has thousands of extra mats and millions of credits so he levels toons to lvl 85, g7, some abilities. Enter GA, twin 1 with no fluff gets easier opponents and always gets 3 wins. Twin 2 gets a more difficult matchup because he has unusable fluff and never gets more than 1 win.
Guess what, twin 1 isn't benefiting because he "focused" and developed a better roster. Twin 1 is benefiting because he is NOT developing toons. To counter, twin 2 isn't at a disadvantage because he didn't focus. He is at a disadvantage because he used extra mats on useless toons.

But some of that gear that is used to get to g7 is then needed for higher level gear. The credits used to get toons to lvl 85 could be used in better areas such as leveling mods to see what secondaries are on the mod (you don’t also level all mods up to 15 before selling them do you?). It is absolutely wasting resources to get toons to g7 and lvl 85 because they will never be useful for anything other than inflating your GP a small amount for TB.

I currently have almost 30 toons that are 7 star, g1, and lvl 1. I would rather save that gear to get 1 toon up to g12 than get 5 toons up to g7.

What’s the end goal with investing small amounts in all of your toons rather than large amounts in a few toons?

Not a small amount at all. Total approx. fluff GP I have is about 1.3M. This cost me next to nothing besides credits which I already had an abundance of at the time. There is no end goal, game pushed us towards that and we did it.

Sorry, I should have clarified that by small amount, I meant small relative to the gains for TB. I can see why it’s hurting you, but I would never do it for TB because I could see even at the release that it would hurt you in the long run (inability to gear to high level).

How's 1/3 of my GP small gain for TB? And how did you see it would hurt us in the long run?

For later phases, your guild will need 130 million or more to 3 star each phase. Best case, you’re providing an extra 1% through deployment at the sacrifice of gear for other toons that could develop to g12 and contribute for raids or future arena teams.

Your case could be different than most I’ve seen though. Is the rest of your roster capable of competing in HSTR and all other aspects of the game?

You seem to be only considering my contribution while it takes everyone to contribute to some degree. Overall it made a huge difference for our TB prowess. Of course if we were to foresee what will come later I'd forego of it still.

You can check my sig for swgoh.gg profile. I checked both ours. Even with the crazy amount of fluff I have the difference is significant (and I'm f2p). If I didn't feel lazy I'd compare -gear needed- the website provides for each of us to debunk your claim. The totality of gear upto purple gear I need vs. you need is only a few days of farming which is nothing in the long run. This is also evidenced by the difference of premium gear I used in my roster vs. yours. Ofc I never used carbantis, stun guns etc. just to push toons I won't use to g7-8. That's the main idea of efficient fluffing.

Either case even with all my baggage I'm hyper competetive and won all my matches in GA besides one (that I would lose even if it was repeated 100 times because of the huge difference in mods).

My problem overall is with the GP calculation itself. It's nowhere near representative of either the usefulness of fluff toon vs. a maxed toon or the resources spent for a fluff toon vs. maxed toon (approx. 10k vs 20-24k GP). If it was I would have nothing to say about it, since I would be getting exactly what I paid for.

That’s fair. I have a similar complaint on how ship GP is compared to squad GP for matchmaking relative to points earned in GA. I can imagine if I had a well developed roster at the time of TB release, I might have fluffed as there wouldn’t be much else to do with my resources. Most likely though, I would and continue to save my resources for future releases in order reduce downtime for upgrading toons (I’m f2p too).

For my claim on the gear, just look at various pieces of gear that have low level components. If you have thousands of them, it’s because they’re not used much. If you just have a few, it’s because they’re used often (generally a good basis).

We have, what low level gear do you have lots more than me of? Since you do such a great job of saving all of your low level gear? None because its a bad lie, no gear used for g7 and below is needed and not plentiful. There is only one toon in yhe game who uses any sort of good gear at g7 and thats cancerous ordo and his insane gear 7 and 8 requirements.

Have you checked gear requirements or do you just push the button when you see a green cross? I used the example of stun guns, but there are many others. If you want more details check them out.

If you have over 4 million GP and there’s nothing left to do but gear up the garbage left on your roster, that’s one thing. But to ask the questions that you just did tells me that you don’t actually know the gear requirements.

I save gear by not gearing up low level toons. As a result, I’ve been able to get the last 3 legendaries and Revan up to g12 within days of obtaining the character.