Estima, Leite, Braga, and more Pros react to Ryron Gracie’s Controversial Statement: “The [IBJJF] medal has zero value. It means as much as this tablecloth right here, but people still kill themselves to try to get those medals.”

Ryron Gracie and Andre Galvao’s match at Metamoris this past weekend was interesting to say the least.. Most of the match consisted of Andre being the agressor and Ryron defending. With no submission in the 20 minutes, it ended in a draw. With controversial statements said by both sides, a lot of fans got into the subject and starting defending which side they thought was correct. At the post-fight press conference Ryron Gracie had a very controversial statement which was: ”The [IBJJF] medal has zero value. It means as much as this tablecloth right here, but people still kill themselves to try to get those medals.” – Ryron Gracie. Being IBJJF Competitors ourselves we thought this was a very disrespectful statement. So we got opinions from high level competitors on the subject. Check out their thoughts below.

Victor Estima: I really think that of competing on Ibjjf it’s not worth it why would he want so bad to compete again one of our champions. To be a world champion is a achievement in life. It’s changes people’s life and give opportunities to many people to live out of their passion. If he says it isn’t worth it. I guess he has never needed to prove that. People are different so it might not have any value for him. This is his point of view but might not be the right one. Winning a world title at Ibjjf has change my life. I had a tough life. It was the only way to achieve success for me. Ryron has all the attention and has no need to win to get success as his Dad done that for him. I respect the Gracie family. I represent them with all my heart. I am happy and I raise my family with the results of the Competitions so I guess it’s worth my life.

Lucas Leite: I think this is very disrespectful. and the way his fight was against Galvao was like one rat[mouse] against one cat…..

Caio Terra: If people are killing themselves and they had the best black belts competing at it, it does have a lot of meaning which gives it value.
I think he probably meant to say something else, because by saying this, he’s basically insulting all the jiu-jitsu competitors, all of us who are doing his family a favor of spreading this art that they are credited for.
Anyways, he should compete in it and maybe he will find the value.

Samir Chantre: I think Ryron and everyone with his last name doesn’t need to do anything to be known, but we do! That’s what they don’t get. I don’t think I would be having the opportunity to give my opinion if I was hanging on my grandfather last name. Do you know who Mr Chantre was? that’s what I figured.

The medal itself may not mean much, but the visibility that you get from your win does, and a lot! People can only talk bad about IBJJF when they make a better, more organized and more visible tournaments than what IBJJF does.

Some people say it’s easy to play on the IBJJF rules and win, in my opinion, it is way easier to defend yourself only not to get submitted, let the guy get all the positions and draw!

Samuel Braga: I believe the value behind world championship has due all the top Jiu jitsu players and well known are competing at the event . Proving yourself among the best competitors create a values that no other tournament will do . If there was not importance on such event , He would not bring up the fact Andre galvao is top jiu jitsu player nowadays, Andre galvao and many others prove their value competing the world championship .

Beneil Dariush: How would he know? He doesn’t have any ibjjf medals.

Keenan Cornelius: I dont know the context of when he said that, but it sounds like he is trying to say that it is just a game and people shouldn’t be so serious about it. but medals are a symbol of accomplishment to prove to ourselves we are improving, winning, whatever it may be. just like the belts in jiu-jitsu are symbolic of experience and knowledge. Maybe its because Ryron doesnt compete alot but i think alot of serious jiu-jitsu competitiors would agree with me when i say its not about the medal anyways, the medal just is something to look back on and remind us what we went through to achieve our goals. personally every medal i have won just gets thrown under my bed and collects dust.(unless its silver or bronze, i throw those away at the first trashcan i see) i guess i can see where he is coming from if he is looking at it like that. however i dont agree with his mentality of competition about just defending.. thats really lame. and boring. its not hard to just defend in jiu-jitsu that why i personally like the point system more because you cant just just lay there if you are down on points you have to fight to get out which opens up submission opportunities.

Jeff Glover: He has his own style, and I love it. I think they both have something to offer the bjj world.

Kit Dale: A guy who defends 95% of the fight is losing 95%! of the fight.. He’s not lucky it wasn’t an IBJJF match.. That’s just convenient.. He’s lucky it wasn’t a street fight with no rules!.. defending the Guard with no real attempts of attacking is no where near as effective as side control/ knee ride/mount or back control and comp bjj teaches you to transition that way hence the point system is progressive to encourage moving forward to more dominant positions.. Galvao dictated that whole fight and is the winner by a mile in my books.. Sitting on your back trying harder to look like he wasn’t trying, more then trying to finish that fight was Ryron.. Then to quote that the IBJJF Medal is as worthless as this table cloth was extremely disrespect-able and stupid.. He lives in a world of trying to make $ through marketing a system that is full of broken promises.. In my opinion all the real bjj practitioners are the ones you see competition.. Putting there skills to the test against the best in the world.. Not trying to sell belts over the Internet and going into a submission only competition to not lose instead of win..

Which opinion/opinions do you agree with? What is your take on this subject?

Here is their match below:

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21 Comments

Great points of views by these great athletes. I will disagree with Dale though. If its a bjj fight I see his point but a street fight…disagree. Royce showed the world why bjj is so effective. This family has taught what they have always stood by…self defense. Tire your opponent and attack when the window is open. Simple.

I’ve won many events on different levels. Medals are a small part for every athlete. It’s the legacy of one that truly counts on how they made the world a better place. That’s why I love many of our bjj champions who take it beyond the medal.

Dale was saying if this match was a street fight, Andre dominated him. Each point or advantage in bjj sport represents a possibility of dominance in an actual street fight.

Not sure why Royce came into this thread… It was a fight between these two, or is it that Ryron is a ‘Gracie,’ then that’s how Royce came up…

Also, i would not say that the ‘Family’ taught BJJ as a self defense, rather it’s the way they market it. BJJ has always been about self defense, to say that it originated from ‘a Family’ is absurd, rather it has been popularized by a certain family. Which is where Royce came into the fray (in the US that is)… Just to add, Royce was considered the weakling on his block in Brazil, before he went to the UFC. Many old school bjj peeps says so, who are in the ‘family’ and who are not.

If you give him credit.. Then ill give bigger creds to Carlson! While a ‘Gracie,’ Carlson is a ‘family’ name only. He is the first to teach bjj’s aggression style and its effectiveness outside the family. While not as popular in teh US as the around the world, Carlson set the stage for many world champs in the past and many.. MANY MMA champs today. Look at the lineage on where their BJJ sources came from.. Mostly Carlson… So i digress, i maybe wrong, but i learned that taking a dude down and punching his face in from a Carlson lineage. Yet i also learned to take a dude down then wait to he gets tired and wait from a window to open up from a ‘Combative BJJ style’ i was taught in another school…

Essentially, its all how you train that determines your goal, not on some dude with a name. Carlson taught that as well.

Dale was saying if this match was a street fight, Andre dominated him. Each point or advantage in bjj sport represents a possibility of dominance in an actual street fight.

Not sure why Royce came into this thread… It was a fight between these two (Andre and Ryron), or is it that Ryron is a ‘Gracie,’ then that’s how Royce came up…

Also, i would not say that the ‘Family’ taught BJJ as a self defense, rather it’s the way they marketed now. BJJ has always been about self defense, to say that it originated from ‘a Family’ is absurd, rather it has been popularized by a certain family. Which is where Royce came into the fray (in the US that is)… Just to add, Royce was considered the weakling on his block in Brazil, before he went to the UFC. Many old school bjj peeps says so, who are in the ‘family’ and who are not. Rickson was considered a God and still is.

If you give him credit.. Then ill give bigger creds to Carlson! While a ‘Gracie,’ Carlson is a ‘family’ name only, he was the first to teach bjj’s aggression style and its effectiveness outside the family. While not as popular in teh US as the around the world, Carlson set the stage for many bjj world champs in the past (Carlson’s reign as a teacher for bjj is first to none) and many.. MANY MMA champs today. Look at the lineage on where their BJJ sources came from.. Mostly Carlson…

So i digress, i maybe wrong, but i learned that taking a dude down and punching his face in (a Carlson lineage) is effective to end a fight in your favor. Yet i also learned to take a dude down then wait to he gets tired and wait from a window to open up from a ‘Combative BJJ style’ i was taught in another school, has caused me to get hurt on a few occasions before i switched camps….

Essentially, its all how you train that determines your goal, not on some dude with a name. Carlson taught that as well… Also Royce got choked out by Wallid.

I think what he did to andre was a disgrace, his family set up a comp to try and tap each other out, he comes to the mindset to defend for 20mins and pretty much turn around and say sport bjj is worth nothing, hello clown you are doing sport bjj by COMPETING in the event, if you want to lye around like a dead fish and think you are awesome go have a slumber party with your friends, you should be ashamed of how you acted at least the rest of the gracies that competed represented the name well, Andre is an awesome grappler and has done so much for the sport, i think the way he acted was 100% correct because you dont come to play basketball without the ball

The Love for Jiu Jitsu/Life has the most value whether you are attacking or defending. Sounds to me like Rorion may bring this idea to MMA. Actually In the old days(1st generation Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Carlson, Helio, Jorge,etc) that’s how they would fight their Vale Tudo matches. No decesions just a win, loss, or a draw. Could be interesting for the future of MMA as well as guys are getting better and better. Much Love PTG

I think Ryron had a point but lost my respect by saying that stupid shit.All the jiu jitsu fighters who are competing work really hard to get the medal, it might be only a medal for him who was born on the top family in jiu jitsu world, but for others it’s a symbol that shows that all that hard work was not in vain,that they somehow got what they wanted.

LOL….This is exactly why Steven Seagal does not compete. He would be criticized for crapping in his pants as a defensive tactic.
All jokes aside, the more that I see of Ryron’s game, the more I respect and admire his Jiu Jitsu but for him to say “the IBJJF medal has zero value” is like a billionaire saying “It’s not about the money”. Well… for a lot of people it is about the money, especially for those who don’t have it and for a lot of people it is about the competition. I’m not solely talking monetary compensation here. I’m talking about a drug addict turning his life around and becoming a world-class competitor and positive role model. I’m talking about the kid who was bullied and becomes a world champion as an adult. Both of these are true examples of the value of pursuing that “Zero Valued” IBJJF medal.
With all that said, I do think that we all should give some consideration to what I suspect Ryron is actually talking about.
Ask yourself “Are you a Martial Artist” or “Are you just engaged in another athletic activity”.
Either way “Do what works for you”.

1:57 – 2:30 ,ryron just stated what his game plan was… i guess it’s pleasing to hear it ,but when we saw how that game plan was put in to action, it does not look cool… i respect what ryron is trying to point out, but i think he should have not said anything at all. i felt that he was just caught up in the moment that he just explode without thinking,it’s ok ,it’s called being a human. the saying “in a fight, you don’t have to win and you don’t have too lose” have been an old martial arts quote. so i guess it’s been helio’s and ryron’s philosophy ever since… can’t blame him for that. but then again he should’ve stayed quiet…

[...] Posted by shakiaharris on October 21, 2012 · Leave a Comment The [IBJJF] medal has zero value. It means as much as this tablecloth right here, but people still kill themselves to try to get those medals.” –Hey I didn’t say it, but Ryon Gracie did at the press conference after the Metamoris Pro. I agree and disagree and I’d love to hear your points on it. In case you’re an in between-er” I posted some other responses from prominent competitors at the bottom of this post to help you out. (All reposted from BestofBJJ.com). [...]

Everybody is free to talk… A truly jiu-jitsu warrior, don’t waste time with this kind of topic.
Do you like medals? Good, just go for it… Do you like basic traditional jiu jitsu w/o points? Good, go and do your stuff.
Nobody has the absolute true… So lets go to the mat, and roll.
Osss!

I Agree with Kit Dale. Unfortunately, Andre Galvão was not successful on his comments right after the fight, and he was got in the “trap” that Ryron Gracie wanted. Ryron Gracie for me, looks like a rich boy, son of a billionaire who says that “he doesn’t understand why some people work so hard to buy a “ferrari”, just because his father gave him one without any kind of effort from his side.”
Who is Ryron Gracie? What does he did for jiu-jitsu? Nothing other than marketing and money selling belts on the internet as Kit Dale mentioned! A guy like me could tell the same Ryron did, but the difference is that my family name is not Gracie! Being so, people would laugh of me if I said such thing that IBJJF medals worth nothing. Honestly, I’ve seen Andre Galvão drilling with purple belts that gave him more hard time and shown more technique than this “unknown” Ryron Gracie…

Great match. A friendly game of jiujitsu. I see nothing wrong with it. I believe Ryron played within the rules and showed the effectiveness of jiujitsu. Had the rules been different, I believe Ryron would have had a different game plan. Much respect to both. OSU

Comment above I digress with ( nohan)!!Vary rare case you are going to be Fighting a person on yor back for 20 min on the street , before you get jumped bye the dudes buddies, or the guy pulls a knife or gun.The fight wasnt a self defence fight because they are both bjj Blackbelts, you are defending bjj not some crazy dude swinging at you on the street… Yes Royce showed the world bjj is the best combat/ self defense system out there but all those dudes had no knowledge about the art… Both Gracie and galvao are high caliber black belts. If Andre was punching the fight would of been done in 5 minutes .. At the end saying sport bjj is useless is and a bad look considering some of his family were the best at competition in there day royler , rickson etc. .. Great debate, respect both fighters , I think Gracie had a win win in this fight/ situation . And I think galvao had a lot of balls to take this fight osssss would love to train with both of these guys !

LOL! Although Ryron is a very stoic individual, he’s also human. Before his fight with Andre he had been made the overwhelming underdog. So many people said Ryron had no chance no matter what he did, it was crazy. Then, when he wasn’t submitted and spent the last 3-5 minutes chasing a tired out Andre, the people who said he wouldn’t last till the water got hot, said very derogatory things about him, his style, etc…. People on this board have said he was defending for the whole 20 minutes which is BS since he was chasing a tired out Andre in the last few minutes. Further, Galvao certainly didn’t represent the IFBJJ very well with his comments and as an IFBJJ World Champion IMO he had a duty to do that. Xandre, de Souza, Jr., Roger, Buchecha, all IFBJJ World Champs, IMO, did that organization proud. Dean Lister, an ADCC Absolute and Weight Division Champ in No-Gi certainly did them proud IMO. So, and I haven’t talked to him so I don’t know for sure, I feel Ryron was either firing back or trying to get a reaction. As to me personally, I am very proud of all my CBJJ/IFBJJ medals and they definitely mean a lot to me. Ryron Gracie has no bigger supporter then me, but if he’s really serious about the medals having zero value, then I disagree with that part of what he said AND I’m not giving mine back!LOL!
Hawk

Couple of points:
1) Galvao is a multiple time world champion and couldn’t finish Ryron who hasn’t won a major tournament
2) Ryron took Galvao’s best sub attempts for 20 min’s and easily defended. I really believe if this fight went on until there was a sub, Ryron would’ve won.
3) One of the comments from Kid Dale saying Ryron is lucky it wasn’t a street fight or others saying Ryron doesn’t put his skills to practical use b/c he doesn’t compete in IBJJ tourneys – lets not forget that Galvao got his butt kicked by Tyron Woodley when he put his BJJ skills up to a “practical test” in MMA.

Hi guys, my name is Gui Valente. This post is directed to the BestOfBJJ website.
Can you please post the full post fight interviews, both Ryron’s and André Galavão’s. As I was present and most or maybe everyone that commented on the alleged Ryron statement were not present, I can say that to the benefit of this argument, the full interviews will do a much better and honest job of explaining Ryron’s arguments.