Honestly, you seem like a sweet girl, and hold many potentially noble ideals, but …

With a start like that, it’s pretty clear that whatever follows that “but” is going to be pretty icky. And our message-sender does not disappoint, going on to suggest that his would-be date’s announced sexual preference (bi) was … illogical.

Your body is designed in a certain way, that is, to receive a man, and this is something you enjoy, but yet, you entertain the notion of artificially reproducing this amazing effect with some kind of gadget operated by another woman? I fail to see the logic in this.

After requesting an explanation, he moves on to this:

Also, allow me to unceremoniously offer my view on “feminism”, in the form of an example. Let us examine the concept of “women’s sports”.

Or maybe let’s not. If you actually do want to read his detailed analysis of this pressing social issue, head on over to A(n)nals.

Comments

Your body is designed in a certain way, that is, to receive nutrition in the form of plant matter picked from trees and bushes, and this is something you enjoy, but yet, you entertain the notion of artificially reproducing this amazing effect with some kind of junk food created in a factory? I fail to see the logic in this.

Oh goodness, his analysis of Women’s Sports is also precious. I mean, it’s not like men ever excluded women from their sports teams, oh no! Women just decided all by themselves with their darling wee ladybrains that they’d like to have easier sports, or something, and started a separatist movement.

Oh, I’d so punch this guy in the face. What an imperious, ignorant ass! He’d have to say that stupid shit to me in person, though. Kinda like that Ron guy who approached me 2 months ago… man, that guy dodged a bullet/fist.

My parlour is designed to receive a gentleman caller. Oh, hellooooooo, Mr. Darcy. Won’t you please sit down and allow me to entertain you with a charming piece on the pianoforte? And yet I so seldom entertain. Pity.

“Your body is designed in a certain way, that is, to receive a man, and this is something you enjoy, but yet, you entertain the notion of artificially reproducing this amazing effect with some kind of gadget operated by another woman?”

…why not both? They aren’t the same thing; not at all. A plastic or silicone toy is not a human being, even if they have similarly-shaped parts, and isn’t it a little misandrist to suggest that a man really could be replaced by a toy?

And so fucking paternalistic to be like, BUT YOU ENJOY THIS ACTION. Did this woman specifically say she liked PIV sex? If so, then okay, but I doubt it did. A woman can be sexually attracted to men and not enjoy this “reproductive” event.

I’m sure the writer of this letter never does anything unnatural. Like eating processed food, wearing synthetic fibers, or taking medicine.

They are admitting that **they are not equal to men**, whereas imagine how fucking awesome it would be if **one single woman were skilled enough to challenge, and beat, then men**!!! It would change the whole world!

@Plymouth no it’s not xD In fact usually it’s the men trying to keep the sports gender segregated (or even the playing fields, look at Augusta National), or even rule separated (it’s the IIHF and the IOC that keeps women’s hockey from having checking even tho they want to check… while there was a huge backlash here when checking was to be taken out of boys house league hockey cuz they finally decided 10 y/os hitting each other was a bad idea, and all these men were like “BUT THEN THEY’LL BE GIRLS!”).

Also they tend to believe the differences between the genders isn’t just “the top men will be stronger and faster at the top end then the top women” but that all men are stronger than all women and women (also ignoring that not all sports are competitions of outright weightlifting and 100M sprints). -_-;; Whenever the girls/women’s hockey debate comes up here, there’s always a lot of comments about how 16 y/o boys can pound them into the ground, or that they as 40 y/o beer belly guys could prolly just skate circles around them.

The truth is if you de segregated sports (it’s not like any female sports leagues do well neways, outside of maybe the WTA), there would be women athletes w/ the men. Depending on the sport, there might be v few (I dun think ANY feminists believe that the only way to be fair would be if rosters were 50/50) or even NONE, but in some sports there would be (I’ve argued hockey, esp w/ goaltenders, and esp as the rules are changing more and more to favour smaller, more skillful players) b/c smart owners will take top-end talent where they can find it. And backwards owners will have teams that suffer. (part of the reason for the 86 year drought for the Boston Red Sox is that even after Jackie Robinson, they were the last team to actually hire black players b/c of the owner’s racism, and so they were narrowing the talent pool they could pick from vs other teams).

Also even if no women are good enough for the majors, they still might be good enuf to fill out a few minor teams, and you can still make a pretty good living doing that. Better than what they have now (nothing in many cases, v little in others). I think many women who play sports at a high level would go for that (not all, I know when it comes up there’s a lot of women who are fine w/ the way things are).

I’d ask “what are guys afraid of? If you’re right and we’re not good enuf, then everything will be the same” but we know the answers… “affirmative action would force women in even if they’re not good enough, if there’s more than 0 on a team, that’d be proof” “guys would be distracted” “guys would take it easier on her” “she’d only be on the team cuz she’s pretty” etc etc : and the first players would get tons of scrutiny… -_-;; On the other hand, the truth is, even if a player just did nothing but FHM and Maxim stuff and tried to be Anna Kournakova, unlike like tennis, owners of teams wouldn’t bother to keep players that held the team back behind, or who would be clowns or distractions if they had no talent (they tolerate the Artests and the Owens b/c they have unique talents, but once you lose it, you’re out the door, and if you never had talent, goodbye even faster).

Tho I think at first, some teams might try to use women as a gimmick (see the Tampa Bay Lightning w/ Manon Rheume) to try to draw fans, if they’re like.. the Phoenix Coyotes, and are bleeding into the desert. -_- While others would just refuse. (similar to when European players came into the NHL, many saw them as just gimmicks, or they were too soft and too weak to play, the Leafs just refused to have European players at all). But I mean, honestly, I think either it’ll work out, or it won’t. And obv each sport is different, but I think it’s certainly an interesting discussion worth having :3 (Esp in light w/ the controversies about Lana Lawless in golf, and Caster Semenya in the women’s 800m, and the IOC now passing laws that basically define being “female” as being of lesser physiology and biology than male (in order to keep out female intersex athletes… trans women would have to have sufficient hormones and blockers to keep them in that “range”, etc) )

I’ve had a date once sort of like this. xD He said he was a feminist, but warning bells should have been when he said “I’m a feminist b/c I want to take care of women” xD And it became pretty clear feminism meant paternalistic chivalry (he insisted on paying for things, I said I wanted to go dutch, he agreed then would do things like get the cheque while I was in the washroom before the meal was over) -_-;;

The thing is tho at least he wasn’t a jerk about it… like he made it clear that this is what he likes to do, and he does it for his male friends too (have no idea, could be lying, could not be, who knows xD ), but that it’s no strings attached, and when we decided it wouldn’t work out, it was very friendly, and he never acted like I owed him nething (even tho I had no say in the matter regardless xD ) Like, that’s what I at least respect about him. That this was his “code”, at he was comfortable about it, rather than screaming about how the bitches ain’t sleeping w/ him after he paid for their stuff.

But the thing that was like this was the whole “let me tell you about feminism” thing xD And “when a white man goes up against a black woman in our society, he always loses” and how our society was racist against white ppl, and etc etc…. I was more amused than nething xD

Oh man. I’m so glad I’m not doing online dating right now. I probably would’ve invited this guy on a date just so I could throw a glass of wine in his face. No, check that. Drink the wine, throw water.

I would just be amused xD Then stick the neural feminizer interface disc at the base of his neck and laugh as we gain another member. (has nebody’s checked up on the status of David’s disc btw? make sure it’s functioning w/n normal parametres and etc? :3 )

My parlour is designed to receive a gentleman caller. Oh, hellooooooo, Mr. Darcy. Won’t you please sit down and allow me to entertain you with a charming piece on the pianoforte? And yet I so seldom entertain. Pity.

LOL @ Bee.

It is kinda weird that a guy who is on an online dating site, and therefore apparently trying to get dates, would send something like this.

My theory is that if someone is trying that hard to convince other people (you know, so hard that they do completely inappropriate, offensive and self-defeating things), they are trying even harder to convince themselves.

And when she doesn’t respond (or responds by telling him to stick his arguments in the place that was formed to receive them), he can tell himself that it’s because she couldn’t answer his devastating points.

@Ami, yep, provided I was in the physical state to engage in sports often (I have chronic pain issues), I would not be allowed to participate in any professional sports or even many amateur ones, because the hormones my body makes all on its own don’t fit within either “normal” range.

Still though, online dating as a bi person can get…fun (if by fun, you mean horrible), especially if you list yourself as a woman (most cites give two options-man or woman-which leaves genderqueer folks in an awkward spot). Put the word “queer” and “genderqueer” in your profile at least ten times and add a specific qualifier that you do not want messages from anyone who does not take your gender and sexuality seriously, and you will still get a-holes like this.

And people wonder why I automatically turn down dates from guys unless I know them very well or meet them in a queer space (of if they have taken me for a guy, in which case I give a brief explanation, queer people tend to have an opinion about these things and can be ruled in or out very quickly)-because a-holes like this are all too common.

I actually regret whatever day it was that the first person came up with tl;dr. Sometimes, okay, it’s useful, but I’ve mostly seen it used as an excuse not to engage a perfectly valid counter-argument that simply needs more than just a few sentences to make. I’ve been told “tl;dr” for a counter-argument I laid out in a single standard-sized paragraph.

@Alex yeah me too : it’s a useful term and often ppl use it as self awareness about how long something they wrote is… but it is often used as “what you wrote was far too long, and there’s this phrase I can use to act like that means it’s not worth reading, and I can pretend you never made a point” :

Although if someone’s ‘unceremoniously offering his views’ in the form of a long and overly-wordy essay on a dating site, I feel it’s apt to say this person sense of when it’s appropriate to keep things brief.

and there’s this phrase I can use to act like that means it’s not worth reading, and I can pretend you never made a point

Just an observation that’s popped into my head (not accusing anybody of anything), but I think the term mansplaining is often used in this way, to ignore anything said by someone perceived to be male. (I’ve been accused of it myself, but when I point out that I’m female, suddenly what I’m saying became attention-worthy.) The same goes for so-called ‘concern trolls’.

And I really do usually manage to say everything in one post, honest. I’m not accusing feminists of anything here, no more so than other groups. I just think a lot of originally useful terms and ideas are misused to dismiss people’s valid opinions. Bingo cards would be another one, and they’re everywhere.

yeah I’ve seen it used in that way : incl at me and other trans women by transphobic radfems =_=;;; these terms can be useful, but sometimes they can also be used as a beatstick, or a way to dishonestly define an argument (like a lot of terms and tactics : ) but I think that it’s also useful when not being used dishonestly, as a way to identify and recognize the dynamics of what’s going on so ppl just dun go on a wild goose chase and sometimes also to maybe let the other person know what’s going on if they are doing it w/o realizing :3 but it can definitely be abused if it’s used dishonestly or against it’s definition… (just like the word “dishonest” can be! xD )

yeah.. the bingo cards are supposed to be a teaching tool and a way to identify common arguments… but it’s become (and this isn’t letting ppl off the hook, but I understand that sometimes constantly engaging in personally painful or triggering arguments can rly rub ppl raw and they want to just express “you’re wrong but i’m too tired to tell you why” but it comes off rly badly and sometimes it’s just “I want to shut you up”) this thing that rly bugs me too (I remember writing about this somewhere but I can’t remember which of my blogs or site comments XD )… this thing that’s just like a meme that ppl do to “win” an argument -_-;;

To me, I just feel that I dun need to engage every argument, nor does it mean somebody tacitly “wins” if I dun xD and if there is somebody is being rly dishonest, I think it’s more helpful (like the ppl in this blog often do) to point out the dishonesty, rather than just shout “BINGO” or something xD

@Johnny Pez yeah 😐 I get that all the time being bi on dating sites : Just the “I want to use you as a big sounding board” thing -_-;;; also when I mention my feminism or anti-racism… It happens a lot to trans ppl too who identify on dating sites.. “hay i want to tell you what I think of trans ppl” or “i have weird personal and gross questions for you tranny ppl” -_-

as for sports… when i was a kid, i played basketball. on the boys team – until i got boobs. between 7th and 8th grade i went from “a little ahead of the curve” all the way to “she’s going to *have* to be a porn star when she grows up, look at her, what else is she good for?” 🙁
after 3 games that year, i was booted to the girls team. because the parents of boys on the OTHER teams complained left and right “my son was afraid to check her, her boobs were in the way!” and etc.

pissed me off. i was good enough to play on the boys team, but i had boobs, so i was forced to the girls team – which *sucked*, because any girl who could actually PLAY made the boy’s team. so i quit, never played again, because WTF?!

hell, i’m 34 and it STILL bothers me.
[i had similar problems with dance, especially ballet – it’s not enough to be a good dancer – you have to have the right silhoute, however it’s spelled – and anything larger than a B cup is too big for ballet. hell, girls with B’s tended to strap down. it didn’t matter how good i was, how long i could stay en point, how clean my lines were – after i got boobs, i NEVER got another solo, NEVER got to be anywhere but the back. they didn’t kick me out, they did worse – they acted like i went from being one of the top 3 dancers to being a effing newbie, who didn’t know HOW to dance. when i was 16, one of my teachers asked me to quit. i asked why. she said, and i quote “i don’t feel comfortable teaching you when i know the only place you’re ever going to use it is a strip bar”]

there are some sports that would be harder for women to compete in – i’m thinking American football for one – and some where it’d be easier, like baseball, tennis, golf.

did you know that when American football first became “pro”, it was WOMEN teams? then men teams started – and didn’t make money, because people wanted to go watch WOMEN play. it was more exciting. so the owners of the male teams bribed all over the place, with the end result that women weren’t ALLOWED to play football anymore. i, for one, would LOVE to see sports become co-ed, at least as co-ed as available talent allows!

*hugs denelian* I’m so sry for those awful exps 🙁 and yeah the “she’s distracting the boys” “the boys are too afraid to hit her” etc etc are a lot of excuses used in junior sports by parents to keep girls who are good enuf and make the cuts from being on the team >_:O

Also ty for your offer and kind words on the other thread 🙂 I’ll keep you in mind (and I may email you if you want to talk more about sports cuz I lurve sports and I so lack ppl to talk about them w/ xD )

ok a bunch of my comment got killed off cuz I forgot not to use those angle brackets again >:|

Basically I said a bunch of stuff about hockey and another excuse used to exclude girls from play and ice rink time (“they have no pro league future, so what’s the point?” even tho 0.1% of guys who play get into the NHL and most of the boys enrolled are playing for fun too) -_-;;;

The other thing is I’m so sry for the crap you took and what your teacher said was ridic awful : Also that I ttlly feel your pain on being unable to play a sport you’re good enuf to play and enjoy not b/c of merit but b/c of stupid superficial reasons that bother OTHER ppl >:| *big time travelling supportive hugs*

Allow me to unceremoniously offer my views on the growing of grass. (Only feasible if one can back this up with at least 30 minutes of material, presented sentence by sentence, in the most boring way possible.)
Allow me to unceremoniously offer my views on God. (proselyzing follow.)
Allow me to unceremoniously flip you on your rhetorical ass and kick you in the tetsticles of your little dipshit arguments.

“there are some sports that would be harder for women to compete in – i’m thinking American football for one – and some where it’d be easier, like baseball, tennis, golf.”

Rules against girls playing on boys’ teams are misogynist and should be rescinded, and obviously the way you were treated when you were young was ignorant and unconscionable. However, it’s not correct to assume that women do not compete in mens’ professional leagues because they are not allowed to. There is actually no prohibition in most pro sports leagues against the participation of women. Baseball (the sport where it seems most plausible that a woman could play at the top pro level) once had such a prohibition, but it is no longer in place. It’s possible to imagine a woman making it as a knuckleball pitcher – I actually have taught my daughter to throw a knuckleball for this reason. The NBA has no rule against women players and David Stern has speculated that the first woman NBA player may be on the horizon. Certainly it’s possible to imagine a woman as a JJ Barea type player, though there are a lot of obstacles to that obviously.

In tennis, the top women could probably compete on the men’s tour, but they could not earn a decent living. It’s hard to see how it would be a win for female athletes if the women’s tour did not exist. Serena Williams would not be a Top-100 player on the men’s tour, and she would have a better chance than most of the top women because of her size and power. Ditto for golf – there are women who could play the men’s tour, and they would need day jobs instead of being millionaires.

The gap between men and women in sports has been extensively studied. Athletically, a top female athlete is about on a par with a top high school male athlete. It’s not misogynist to say this – it’s a fact. Men go through a fantastic improvement in explosive muscle power between about the ages of 14 and 18. Women don’t.

This has no bearing on anything outside of sports – athletic prowess is not that important in society. But the best male athletes will always be a couple classes better than the best female athletes. For all the hooey that gets attributed to the alleged biological differences between men and women, this is the exception – it’s real.

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