(10-05-2013 07:29 AM)houseofcantor Wrote: Sympathy for the unsympathetic is a pearl before the swine.

Johnny, this is one of the most horrific things I've heard you say. Not to mention untrue. Sympathy has little to do with the one who receives it and everything to do with the one who's giving it. Thus, the capacity for it (or lack thereof) doesn't reflect on the recipient, but on the one giving or withholding it (and purposefully withholding it is even worse than simply not being capable of it).

Sympathy for the unsympathetic is a pearl before the swine. Civilized society has some requirements, and one of those is identity. Homeless people have opted out of the social identity.

Civilized society? What's your benchmark?

The society I live in cages peaceful individuals who carry bits of vegetation that some people don't like. Men in blue costumes shoot peaceful protesters in the face with maze. They've caged almost three thousand of those people for protesting the theft of billions of dollars by some the richest politicians and businessmen in the world and not one of those thieves has even been charged with a misdemeanor. This society drugs bored children so that they don't inconvenience adults in the Prussian style indoctrination camps they are forced to attend for thirteen years of their lives. This society those who can act like someone they are not, throw balls or travel across the world and murder strangers for hire and then looks down its nose at those who would point out the evil in such atrocious behavior.

What civilized society?

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb

(10-05-2013 07:52 AM)houseofcantor Wrote: I feel like I did something.

I'm not asking you to hate 'em. I'll do it. Exercises my self-loathing.

You're still missing the point. It's not even about homeless people per se. But about sympathy.

The quality of mercy is not strain'd,
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath: it is twice blest;
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes:
'Tis mightiest in the mightiest: it becomes
The throned monarch better than his crown;
His sceptre shows the force of temporal power,
The attribute to awe and majesty,
Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings;
But mercy is above this sceptred sway...

When I was blathering on in another thread about the state of the world and my views you said muffs why dont I do something about it and why do I conform?

So I flip-reverse it and say why dont you actually get off your high horse and talk to some homeless people and find out why they are homeless? What is it that keeps them doing this? I'm gonna kinda guess that every reason may be different and some of them may not fit into the "boxes" of help that the world offers them.

Once you can understand the situation from their perspective I would find it a teeny bit more acceptable if you continued to hate them. Instead of coming from a position of ignorance and hating simply because you can and choose to.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

On prom night, me and the boyfriend were wandering around a place we are very familiar with, just sipping some coffee and talking about nothing.. when this homeless man grabs me by the arm out of nowhere. My boyfriend, out of instinct, snatched his arm away from mine and put me behind him.
The man, beginning for money, kept asking us "would you do anything for her/him" or "would you protect her/him". I never said a word, honestly was terrified.
He took a step towards us and my boyfriend pushed him back and we ran.
My goodness, I was terrified.

"You don't disappoint me.... I think your much braver than you may believe."bemore

Quote:They have the opportunity to get a home and a job and even a free handout. They don't have the ability to maintain those things.

It's like you read what I say but then choice to respond with something completely irrational to what I just said.

I don't see what part of "the state will sort it all out for you, all you have to do is sit on your ass at home and watch TV instead of sitting on your ass on the streets annoying the shit out of me" you don't understand.

How can you fuck up having everything paid for for you??? It's physically impossible unless you take that money and spend it on something like ohh let's say, booze and drugs!

Quote:if you see a homeless man living in a box and wearing his underwear outside his pants, do you honestly think that the only thing standing between this man and success in life is a few of your tax dollars?

You're not getting it.
It's not about success, I accept that these people fail at life and will likely always fail at life..

Quote:Like I said above, this isn't an economic issue.

Yes it is, it truly really is.
They get X amount of dollars from the government.
Food and board costs Y.
X > Y
Somewhere along the road Z (booze and drugs) comes into play.
Y + Z > X
You can clearly see where the problem is.

And don't give me this "they're incapable", the state caters to those people. The state will pay your rent for you (give the money to the landlord instead of you).

Quote:Most of them are homeless year round.

Not the ones here.

Quote: she takes the day's leftover food to them

Ahh, they get the scraps after you've had your fill.
At least I'm upfront about being a bad Christian towards them.

My views are based on the past 3 years experience and my observations, especially of different times of the day and year regarding the homeless as well as my interaction with them.

Quote:Pretty much like everyone, including homeless people.

Wrong, I don't use the hand I am dealt as an excuse to end up homeless.

Quote:Ohhhhh... it REALLY is that simple, shit, why did I not see that before!?!?!?!?!?!?!

You didn't read anything I wrote did you?

I suspect you just don't like my way of thinking because it's right and it makes you feel insecure that your opinions have been for so long, wrong, and much like a religious person in denial about there being no god, you can't simply admit the truth that you are wrong and I am right.

Quote:And Canada is very different than the US Cool

My bad, as a non-American I just assume everyone on the internet is American.

Quote:I'm having a lot of trouble. To me, it feels like you're coming off like the WBC on this one. Your position is so extreme, so caustic and, at least from my perspective, so utterly divorced from reality, that I can't think of any rational arguments.

It's very simple.
I lay it out best I can.

The state provides X amount of dollars to people that meet the requirements.
For someone who is without job that is a sizable amount. Not large, but certainly enough to live on.
The state offers help to those with mental illness's and without family or without family who actually a damn.

So as you can see, the problem is not money ability. The services are in place. Your welcome homeless people, my tax payer money is paying for that.

OH, and that's not counting charities like the Salvation Army...

So what rational conclusion can one gather from this?
Well, either these people have homes and no job (thus time on their hands) and so sit on the street begging for money.
Or
They don't have homes because the money that would be for housing is spent on other things, such as booze and drugs, and so they sit on the street and beg.

Either outcome does not warrant in any way shape or form my empathy.
I'm not the mean one here, they're the parasites leeching off society because they want to get high as a kite.
Thus, my money stays in my pocket or goes into the plastic bucket in the hands of the charity worker at the grocery store. I'd much rather my money go towards ambulance services then some drunks addiction.

Quote: or would it just read, "We're hopeless write offs?"

That.

Quote:Why should you not help those that will not help themselves? Why should you not have empathy for those who don't help themselves? Why should you hate those who don't help themselves? Why should you ask why you should do anything? "Should" is entirely up to arbitrary choice. You can act on whatever idea you have of what you "should" do, and those who squander their welfare on drugs and alcohol can do the same with their own ideas of what they "should" do.

And "reason" as you've been using it is the same way. Whatever reason you choose is reason enough to not empathize with others is not reason enough for me to not empathize with them, but that's just my own opinion.

You're over complicating things. Cut the world salad.
And I'm not saying you shouldn't emphasize with them. You can toss your money away, I don't care.

Quote:[sarcasm]And here I was starting to think you might have actually not been "insignificant".[/sarcasm]

Is this why replied to me? Because I called you insignificant?
Just accept it, your life is insignificant. You have yet to do anything of significant value with it and so it shall remain insignificant until it does.

ie: My life now is insignificant, but at least I have plans to do significant things.

Quote:If you support the homeless by paying taxes, how is you receiving money from the state different from asking the general populous for money?

It's different because I'm not on the street begging for money you idiot...
Seriously, go back and reread.

Quote:"Annoyance" is the result of cooperative effort composed of what others do and how you perceive their actions. By saying they "annoy" you, you're not only describing their actions but also blaming them for your own thinking.

Again with the world play. Blah blah blah blah blah.

Quote:Your doubt/your belief in what they will "always" do is irrelevant to what determines their actions. Conclusive predictions of human behavior are naive notions.

Also, the notion of "eye sore" is subjective, just like the notion that discrimination on the basis of aesthetics is "shallow".

blah blah blah blah blah.

Quote:If you've gotten that impression from reading this thread, I think you misunderstand people who have been disagreeing with you.
[quote]

I doubt it. They dislike what I say because they believe I should be more empathic towards those less fortunate then I.
My opinion is "ignorant" to them because they believe it to be baseless because the end result (me hating them) is not in line with what they would consider socially acceptable emotions.

[quote]This seems to me to be the misunderstanding you have. I believe the empathy people have been mentioning has less to do with feeling and more to do with thinking. As far as I can tell, they're basically telling you to stop stereotyping/generalizing/discriminating against the homeless and start perceiving the homeless individually.

Let me be more specific when I say homeless in the context of this thread.

NZ homeless, begging on the streets.

happy?
In which case I am not stereotyping, I am accurately portraying.

Quote:Do you know that your taxes are already paying for everything they need, or is that just your unfounded belief?

I know because I've been in that system.

Quote:While I appreciate your honesty, I take your response as indication you are generally ignorant and narcissistic.

Oh son... you call me narcissistic like it's suppose to be offensive. LOL.

Quote:No matter how capable or incapable anyone is of anything, we all depend more on a foundation of things given us than on the things we've created for ourselves.

What a load of shit (with some truth).
My foundations are shit to say the least. Again, everything I own I worked myself to buy. We are what we make ourselves to be.

Quote:So I flip-reverse it and say why dont you actually get off your high horse

This isn't a high horse moment. This is simply a "I don't like them moment".
I'm sure there's food out there you don't like, what? you think you're better then that food?? You think you're above that food!? HUH!!!!

Quote:and talk to some homeless people and find out why they are homeless? What is it that keeps them doing this?

1) ew.
2) Yeah, like they don't have an agenda? (to get my money)
3) ew.

Quote:I'm gonna kinda guess that every reason may be different and some of them may not fit into the "boxes" of help that the world offers them.

Everybody fits in the boxes of the world helping them. BUT there is a point where one must help others, help them. And tell me, they wont let the state or some charity, hell even a church?? help them, yet they're more then happy to ask ME for money?
Fuck off. If these people wanted to be off the street all the resources are there to help them and they would be.

Stop making excuses for them Bemore. You're enabling them.

Quote:On prom night, me and the boyfriend were wandering around a place we are very familiar with, just sipping some coffee and talking about nothing.. when this homeless man grabs me by the arm out of nowhere. My boyfriend, out of instinct, snatched his arm away from mine and put me behind him.
The man, beginning for money, kept asking us "would you do anything for her/him" or "would you protect her/him". I never said a word, honestly was terrified.
He took a step towards us and my boyfriend pushed him back and we ran.
My goodness, I was terrified.

Next time you create a thread about how people hate you and shit I'm quoting this.