<quoted text>So you are saying that the manifestation of your invisible thoughts into words are proof that they exist?Then the same logic can apply to the universe being the manifestation of an invisible God could it not?

No, you are making a connection that's not there.I am not invisible , and can show my thoughts and relay them to others.The universe is not invisible, but if it is aware it conveys no messages.You surmise an invisible thing, that conveys no message.

Ergo, I am real as are my thoughts, the universe is real and visible.

You contend a invisible thing that conveys no thoughts is real.Fail, there is nothing there but "your" thought.

<quoted text>No, you are making a connection that's not there.I am not invisible , and can show my thoughts and relay them to others.The universe is not invisible, but if it is aware it conveys no messages.You surmise an invisible thing, that conveys no message.Ergo, I am real as are my thoughts, the universe is real and visible.You contend a invisible thing that conveys no thoughts is real.Fail, there is nothing there but "your" thought.

Then tell me by which of your human senses do you perceive your thoughts?

<quoted text>Thought rationalizes perception, but is not in itself a perception.

You perceive with the senses and think what you see.they are a part of the same process, with no perception there can be no thought. You have to have both to be conscious and a third thing for it to mean anything (memory).It's the same as asking what eyes did you see it with.With no input from the senses you are unconscious or dead.

<quoted text>You perceive with the senses and think what you see.they are a part of the same process, with no perception there can be no thought. You have to have both to be conscious and a third thing for it to mean anything (memory).It's the same as asking what eyes did you see it with.With no input from the senses you are unconscious or dead.

You assume unconscious or dead, only because of the lack of a memory impression...those who have had amnesia are still quite alive, even without recall.

For example, is it honest and moral of you Christians to attribute everything good to Jesus working in your life, and then all the bad -- the disasters, the disappointments, the cancers, the unanswered prayers, etc. to, well, "God works in mysterious ways"?

<quoted text>Anyone who is unconscious still breathes. The same as a tree still grows even without memory. In your scenario, anyone who was unconscious would die immediately from lack of memory function.

Unconscious is not out of memory,it is unconscious memory and a baby has raw memory but it has memorized in the brain stem or reptilian brain the primal functions to what it needs to survive.The reptilian brain is responsible for telling your heart to beat breathe etc, if all memory was lost you would die.

<quoted text>Maybe so, but I even recall US exchange students at my high school in NZ and they were surprised at how inclusive it was. We noted how they were quite superficial in their concerns. I don't mean they were superficial people, but its a quality. Too much makeup on the girls, hard to explain. We were sports mad, but the first "jock" I ever met who was into working out to "build his pecs" rather than improve his rugby or swimming or sprinting like we were was an American exchange student. Maybe he was planning to impress everyone when he returned home.I would suggest that the exaggerated hollywood version still reveals an underlying truth about school in the USA. Admittedly, I do not have first hand experience, but I do know what Americans notice once they are out of that environment.But I won't belabour the point any more. The underlying one was that SBT's claims that the alienation and lack of meaning that he sees driven by evolution and "atheism" are due to different factors.

Again, good points. I have no firsthand experience with peer pressure or the need to be popular, but of course this doesn't mean it doesn't exsist.

Mike made a very good point about parenting, rather lack of. When I was young we listened to our parents. God forbid getting a detention or a note which needed to be signed, I'd have rather gone off into the wilderness and live with wolves than to get a detention slip signed by my parents back in the day. This doesn't seem to be the case nowadays.

Again, I was too focused on learning and guess I was fortunate to not have been so concerned about my poularity. I never knew any kid who was depressed or considered suicide, I know it's a reality, but never experienced it first hand. Maybe it is a factor, but if so, it's only one of many. Again, complex, and I'm not a psychologist.

<quoted text>He makes a large number of salient points in that 11 minutes.

For example, is it honest and moral of you Christians to attribute everything good to Jesus working in your life, and then all the bad -- the disasters, the disappointments, the cancers, the unanswered prayers, etc. to, well, "God works in mysterious ways"?

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