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Okay, don&#39;t get me wrong. I feel for her parents. I would not want to lose a child no matter what. But getting congress to pass a midnight bill just gets me. Doesn&#39;t congress have something better to do with its time than rush back from Easter break? I want my congressman to worry about getting more money for schools and health care, not overturning a court ruling&#33; What do you think?

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Geo, I agree. The entire situation is so sad. Sad for her, her family and her husband. If Congress decides to get in the middle of this case, when and where will they stop? My living will deemed null and void? Just another example of political payoff and political profiteering.

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Originally posted by KinkGuy@Mar 21 2005, 06:57 PMGeo, I agree. The entire situation is so sad. Sad for her, her family and her husband. If Congress decides to get in the middle of this case, when and where will they stop? My living will deemed null and void? Just another example of political payoff and political profiteering.

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Coming to us largely from the party that claimed that the government needed to get out of our lives. What a crock.

This is a family matter, not a congressional one. They DO need to find something better to do with their time. Like, take a look at how to get rid of the &#036;500 billion deficit.

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Originally posted by dcwrestlefan@Mar 21 2005, 02:06 PMIf I were Terri, I would want to go. There is no life left there.

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I&#39;d agree with that one. My mom is a nurse. She&#39;s worked in a nursing home, and is now currently in a hospital. Over and over, she has told me to pull the plug if she ever ends up in a similar state.

I think if there was a way for Terri to decide, it should be her choice. I understand her parents wanting to keep her around, but I also understand her husband wanting "what is best for her...it&#39;s what she wants". However, I would sympathize with the husband if he wasn&#39;t already with some other broad living it up - he&#39;s no longer hers, so it shouldn&#39;t be his choice. I think, if she had children, it should be their choice and their parents, not Dumbya&#39;s, not Congress, not her SO that left her, but hers if she weren&#39;t a vegetable, her childrens, her parents, and had he stayed with her, her hubby&#39;s. If it were me though, I would want to go, unless I knew the people I would leave behind would hurt worse if I left than I would if i stayed alive and incapacitated, but that&#39;s just my opinion. I understand they tried to negotiate, but there were better ways to handle this.

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I think if there was a way for Terri to decide, it should be her choice. I understand her parents wanting to keep her around, but I also understand her husband wanting "what is best for her...it&#39;s what she wants". However, I would sympathize with the husband if he wasn&#39;t already with some other broad living it up - he&#39;s no longer hers, so it shouldn&#39;t be his choice.

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Well yeah, if Terri could decide this would be an entirely different debate.

Ok, let&#39;s say you&#39;re married with a husband (I know - bear with me a moment), a terrible accident happens. ALL, not some, but ALL of the medical experts tell you that your husband&#39;s cerebral cortex has turned to liquid. ALL of the medical experts agree that no one will EVER come back from this. How long should you wait before trying to move on with your life?

Would seven years be enough? Michael Schiavo has pretty much been a Saint through this whole thing as far as I can see. The plug should have been pulled years ago, long before Schiavo had "moved on".

What benefit is there to him in all of this? Not monetary. He COULD just move on with his new life and leave his wife&#39;s un-dead corpse to her parents to deal with, that would certainly be easier. But it wouldn&#39;t be carrying out the wishes of his wife as he believes them to be. I understand that there is a matter of question as to what Terri&#39;s wishes "really" were but in the latest much heralded poll, those wishes are shared with about 84%(off the top of my head so +/-) of the country. So is it that hard to believe?

I have no animosity against the parents, I understand the feelings they have and the fact that a person in a PVS can seem very aware. But why must we demonize the husband?

Good point, though I thought I read somewhere that he hardly waited at all. I personally agree that the plug should be pulled, but that it could have been handled better than to get Dumbya involved. That&#39;s all I meant by what I said, and yes, people should move on, but they should just not have a say in their Ex&#39;s life or death situation. Me being young, I really haven&#39;t experianced a whole lot. Maybe if I ever had kids, my opinions would change, but as it stands right now, let the woman rest in peace.

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carolinacurious: "Good point, though I thought I read somewhere that he hardly waited at all."

Well, I&#39;m looking up information on the girlfriend (there&#39;s plenty out there but I&#39;m having trouble finding any from sites that aren&#39;t "nutty"). So that&#39;s an interesting point.

Last night I tried to do some research into this whole issue and it&#39;s surprisingly difficult, between the "Moonie" newspapers and the pro-life organizations it&#39;s amazing how many of the links Google pops up are obviously biased. It&#39;s hard to blame people for having bad info.

While I&#39;m sure this is not the final word (and neither has much to say about the girlfriend), I found these sites usefull:

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carolinacurious: "Well, I&#39;m looking up information on the girlfriend"

Ok, first we have his present girlfriend, Jodi Centonze. I can&#39;t find anything that I, or anyone I would consider reasonable, to object to there.

The we have Cynthia Shook Brasher, the only thing I can find that it seems that both sides agree to is that Michael started dating her a year and a half after Terri&#39;s collapse. Doesn&#39;t bother me, nor did it appear to bother Terri&#39;s parents at the time. There&#39;s more info out there, some of it troubling, none (troubling) that I can find from anything approaching what I would consider a reputable source.

I&#39;m done with the GF angle. I&#39;ll read what others dig up if anyone&#39;s interested.

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This act of Congress was an emergency session. They called back congressmen who were home on vacation; who do you think pays for them to jet back to Washington? You know they didn&#39;t pay for it out of pocket. I could just see the bill for the last minute travel... &#036;10,000? &#036;20,000? :grr:

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I have a problem with these cases where the patient&#39;s only &#39;life support&#39; is food and water. It is not like she is on a resperator or has zero brain activity. She is &#39;awake&#39; even if there is no recognition there. When I heard about the first case like this, where an unconscious patient had their feeding tube removed, I thought it was barbaric. Again, the patient was on no other &#39;support&#39; except food. Dehydration and starvation are not pleasant or painless ways to die.

Remember Karen Ann Quinlin anyone? She was on a resperator and they took her off to let her die. She lived for at least 5 to 10 years as she really didn&#39;t need it anymore.
I just don&#39;t like the direction this is going. Next thing you know they&#39;ll say "Let&#39;s shoot him/her in the head, to put him out of his/her misery."

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I really shiver when I think how years from now this could come back to haunt us. We are already seeing cases of men killing their wives and girlfriends when they either get pregnant or there is a girlfriends somewhere in the wings. Not that I think divorce is a great option but couldnt we try something less drastic, people&#33; how do we know that Terry Schiavo said that? It is very convenient to me that she happens to have won a settlement that was worth millions and quite probably could come to him his common law wife and children for pulling the plug. Why couldnt he divorce her? He would have looked like a jerk and would have had to pass go and not collect 2 million dollars. While some folks dont want to have life support there are others who do want every method and effort taken to keep them going. There have been cases of people in comas who came out and told of being able to hear their loved ones. I am glad to know that someone went out of their way for that one woman who could not speak for herself. This situation brings up the Dietrich Bonhoefer quote concerning the nazis "I was silent when they took ...." Be careful folks children are watching....

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carolinacurious: "I have a problem with these cases where the patient&#39;s only &#39;life support&#39; is food and water."

I don&#39;t think this is pleasant for anyone.

"It is not like she is on a resperator or has zero brain activity. She is &#39;awake&#39; even if there is no recognition there."

She&#39;s not "awake", There is fluid where her cerebral cortex is supposed to be. Terri Schiavo is dead, only her central nervous system hasn&#39;t figured it out yet.

"Dehydration and starvation are not pleasant or painless ways to die."

Of course not, but the same people who argue against this also argue against assisted suicide.

"I really shiver when I think how years from now this could come back to haunt us."

OK, how?

"We are already seeing cases of men killing their wives and girlfriends when they either get pregnant or there is a girlfriends somewhere in the wings."

Ok, wow. What color is the sky out in left field in your world?

"Not that I think divorce is a great option but couldnt we try something less drastic, people&#33;"

Like what?

"how do we know that Terry Schiavo said that?"

We don&#39;t.

"It is very convenient to me that she happens to have won a settlement that was worth millions and quite probably could come to him his common law wife and children for pulling the plug."

Convienient and false. &#036;700K, which as near as I can tell has almost completely been used to cover medical expenses.

"Why couldnt he divorce her? He would have looked like a jerk and would have had to pass go and not collect 2 million dollars."

No 2 million dollars, it&#39;s fiction. He&#39;s actually been offered 10 million to just walk away but he turned it down (even that is somewhat misleading because at that moment the issue was in the court&#39;s hands, not his) But I know of no reputable evidence that shows that he is in this for the money.

"While some folks dont want to have life support there are others who do want every method and effort taken to keep them going."

OK, the man who was closest to her in life says that Terri was not one of these people.

"There have been cases of people in comas who came out and told of being able to hear their loved ones."

Yes, there are. There are different sorts of comas too. In any event Terri Schiavo will not come out of this coma. You can hope, you can pray, you can scream, you can dream but everything that would have made Terri an individual person and more than a zombie is gone. Not dormant, not sleeping, gone.

"I am glad to know that someone went out of their way for that one woman who could not speak for herself."

Well I do like people who stand up for those who can&#39;t stand up for themselves, so I guess we can agree on one thing.

"This situation brings up the Dietrich Bonhoefer quote concerning the nazis "I was silent when they took ...." Be careful folks children are watching...."

"OH,THE CHILDREN&#33; BUT WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN&#33;?"--whatever

Virtually everything about the Bush administration EXCEPT this has reminded me of the Bonhoefer quote. You&#39;re late to the party.

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I can understand lap and Naughty in how they would want to stay alive if they were aware and could maintain themselves.

Personally, I would be miserable being a shell of my former self. If I would be bound in a hospital the rest of my life, and not even capable of communication....it would not be the way I would want to finish my life. I would be a burden unto others, and would never want them to feel that they were obligated to babysit me.

However, if I was capable of communicating and moving on my own, I would consider the matter differently. I don&#39;t know the specifics on this current case since it&#39;s just one giant mess with everyone following an agenda that spreads information on it.

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I can understand lap and Naughty in how they would want to stay alive if they were aware and could maintain themselves.

Personally, I would be miserable being a shell of my former self. If I would be bound in a hospital the rest of my life, and not even capable of communication....it would not be the way I would want to finish my life. I would be a burden unto others, and would never want them to feel that they were obligated to babysit me.

However, if I was capable of communicating and moving on my own, I would consider the matter differently. I don&#39;t know the specifics on this current case since it&#39;s just one giant mess with everyone following an agenda that spreads information on it.

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If the above were the case then I would be arguing differently but it&#39;s not, Terri Schiavo&#39;s condition is worse than any of the possibilities you have presented.

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Thanks for the link carolina. To me, that is a state I would not want people to remember me in.

One of my worst fears would be reaching one of those states, but still be functioning in my mind. Being partially aware of what is around me, and knowing what I must do to communicate, but being completely impaired...incapable of communicating day after day, after day...for years. It would be a nightmare.

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Thanks for the link carolina. To me, that is a state I would not want people to remember me in.

One of my worst fears would be reaching one of those states, but still be functioning in my mind. Being partially aware of what is around me, and knowing what I must do to communicate, but being completely impaired...incapable of communicating day after day, after day...for years. It would be a nightmare.

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You&#39;re welcome on the link, hopefully some others will read it too.

I think you do a good job of describing the "nightmare" that IMO would make this a much more difficult debate. I think a lot of the Terri "supporters" believe that she is trapped in a body that won&#39;t let her communicate with the outside world. If the "intelligent mind trapped in a non-functioning body" was what was happening here, this would be tremendously difficult, a horrible nightmare that I wouldn&#39;t want to live through (but I can understand that other people would) and to imagine being starved to death in that state is horrible.

But what&#39;s happening here (as I&#39;m sure you know now Altarion) is actually the opposite. "Terri" is not trapped in a non-responsive body, if anything, her body is ready to go it&#39;s just that everything that was Terri is gone.

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Back on topic for just a moment:

This act of Congress was an emergency session. They called back congressmen who were home on vacation; who do you think pays for them to jet back to Washington? You know they didn&#39;t pay for it out of pocket. I could just see the bill for the last minute travel... &#036;10,000? &#036;20,000? grr.gif

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And to add insult to injury this massive mobilization is ONLY for the Schiavo case, it doesn&#39;t apply to anyone else in a PVS and cannot be used as precedent.

What is it about the Republicans where they like to make laws that only apply to a single brain dead individual?