Fox Cancels All BUFFY Screenings!!

I am – Hercules!!
The “Buffy The Vampire Slayer” sing-a-longs are no more, cancelled by 20th Century Fox lawyers who apparently don’t feel the studio is getting a big enough taste of the sing-a-long profits.
Fox has allegedly pulled its licensing for all public exhibitions of the TV shows it owns, including all episodes of “Buffy” “Angel” and “Firefly.” The sing-a-long screenings of “Buffy” episode “Once More With Feeling” (including those held at the nation’s best cinema, Austin’s Original Alamo Drafthouse) were often accompanied by screenings of “Hush.”
Now fans of “Buffy” will have to huddle, hunted and fearful, in illegal raves or speakeasies if they want to laugh together at favorite episodes.
"We have to protect our interests, and that's what we're doing," Fox spokesman Chris Alexander tells the Associated Press. "There are plenty of legal ways for fans to enjoy Buffy, but this particular event is not going to be possible at this time."
Read all of the AP’s story on the matter here.
Find additional stories here and here.

I'm not much into the Buffy sing alongs, or going to see Angel or Firefly on the big screen, but once again the fans get screwed because of corporate greed. Next it will be the benefit showings of Serenity that get cancelled. What a bunch of corporate losers....

those guys have NEVER known how to deal with those properties. What a bunch of crap. I wish Joss would hear about this and put a stop to it. HOW could this be harmful in any capacity. What a bunch of killjoys

it can't even compete with the hatred I have for Fox quashing something harmless that people enjoy just because they're not making a buck off of it. Fucking pricks. And AnimeJune speaks the total truthiness.

Out of curiosity, i went when the Buffy sing along was here in Denver. At the Landmark Esquire, the place was sold out and it was an amusing experience and fairly fun. Everyone I told about it afterwards wished it was happening again, so yes, there is an ongoing audience for things like this. The problem with Fox is that they have neither the foresight nor the ingenuity to try to come up with uses for library films and tv shows like the fans do. By quashing these because they weren't getting enough money, all they've done is ensure that they get NO money. Because really, at this point Fox has not endeared themselves to the fans of very many shows and properties they've created - to the point of the "official" versions of many things Fox sucking beyond any reasonable measure compared to what the fans have come up with. What makes this even more pathetic is that in the preshow, there are video interviews with Whedon and several other cast members who have said that they thought it was great it was happening. Go to hell, Fox. Your licensing and clearances departments should have their nads cut off before you fire them.

little nitpicking cunts when it comes to intellectual property. Yesterday my youtube account got shitcanned for having a couple of Firefly fanvids on it. Yeah, the real threat to your bottom line is clips of old shows set to music. Shitdicks.

Boy, Hollywood sure LOVES cancelling Joss Whedon stuff. Even after the show was actually canceled, they keep finding ways to cancel it! Cancel cancel cancel! Jesus. Not even that big a fan, but yeesh, the guy must have refused to suck the wrong dick back in the day...

Can we just call this the Buffy-verse column and be done with it? Because every other article has something to do with the Buffy universe. Its ether about what Joss Whedon had for lunch. Or some key grip that used to work on Buffy is now doing craft services for some lame pilot. Or someone wrote a brilliant Buffy fan fiction comic on the back of Wired Magazine. For the love of Christ Buffy is done, its time to move on.

...but there is a zeitgeist, a tipping point, where word of mouth and good will can cause something that is a local phenomenon to become an national pastime. <br><br> The opposite, which is what Fox apparantly fails to see, can also happen, as things that ought to catch on fail to do so, and word of mouth generates as much negativity as anything else. And all of Fox's hard work to become the number 4 or number 3 network puts them at "number two" in the eyes of their viewers.

I'll never forgive you for cancelling Veronica Mars.
And yes, I know the CW cancelled it. I figured I might as well just lump it in with the laundry list of shows Fox cancelled, therefore I can focus my hate.

I thought these screenings were the lamest thing ever... until I actually WENT to one. No kidding, now I resent the hell out of anyone who judges it without first trying. it really was a great event and so clearly made with love by all involved. oh well. there are worse things, I suppose.

would just come out and set the record straight on why FOX hates him so much. He must have pissed someone off for them to screw with his shows so badly. But I quess Minear must have done the same, since he had a large hand in Firefly, and an even bigger hand in Drive. OR, IT COULD BE THAT FOX IS FULL OF STUPID DOUCHEBAGS! FUCK FOX... FUCK THEM UNTIL THEIR ASSHOLES ARE LIKE DONKEY ASSHOLES!

Doesn't Fox currently own the rights to the RHPS distro?
Why is that still ok but this teeny bopper stuff isn't? Odd.
I will point out, the seventies brought us Rocky Horror, and 30 years later, we have Buffy. I think it's cause they're watering down the drugs and sissifying the masses, but hey, that's just me.

I'm glad I just managed to catch a showing here in Jacksonville two weeks ago.. made all the better by "Recount" writer Danny Strong (Jonathan) being in town and stopping by while his crew was recruiting extras for that HBO film.. hes a nice little guy.. although he didn't stay for the showing.. saying "Hey, I'm not in these episodes.." he also mentioned how Sarah Michelle was a little greedy in bed.. which is why he had to dump her..
Just glad I got to attend a sing along.. this will really hurt Dragoncon, the Buffy Horror Music show is always a big highlight there..

...but, cmon, how much money is Fox actually "losing" here? Seems like it might actually be a boost to dvd sales if they let it run, and they just look like douches for stopping it. And they don't make any money by stopping it either, just to protect 10% of a really small amount of money...<p>They could save more money by stopping crap shows, supporting good ones.<p>Comes down to this: The only thing Fox actually does is CANCEL things.

I think they were licenced through Criterion for play in the theaters, then Fox told Criterion to cease and desist. A lot of people are saying it's because of the Writer's Guild negoiations(they want a bigger percentage due to them from extras such as Sing-a-longs apparently). However, I don't blame the writer's at all for feeling this way. Fox is being miserly. Hopefully, imo, the writer's get their deal and Fox will let the show go on. More money for everybody!!!

Seriously this is so typical. They have no respect for their audiences and they cancel GOOD shows and put shitty ones on in their place. Stupid assholes.

Oct. 12, 2007, 9:40 p.m. CST

by Omar B

I didnt even know there were such things as Buffy sing alongs. Not my thing but I am a fan of Firefly and would have attended such a viewing had I known. Great job screwing your fans FOX! Hey, now we all get to organize this group viewings in our back yards with obnoxiously large projection screens.

I mean, FOX Executives don't visit this site or read the talkbacks. I'm pretty certain they don't read in general or watch movies or television. They prefer the shade of rocks or woodpiles and lie motionless for hours, even days, until unsuspecting prey pass by. Then they strike without warning or pretense, injecting their prey neurotoxin and watching its demise with passive disinterest.

This gains Fox <i>nothing</i>. They profit <i>zero</i> by this action. They stand to gain in the future: <i>zero</i> by this action.<br>
<br>
Lawyers do not care about profits, marketing or publicity. Smart studios cultivate fan bases for their artists and products. Stupid mother fucking brain dead morons let lawyers go overboard in their quest to keep you from even thinking about their product. Why would you want to strangle your consumer base until the end result is damaging your brand, products and artist appeal? You wouldn't But lawyers don't care.<br>
<br>
Fox executives: you are fucking stupid.

I know this was getting quite a turnout in Boston. It's too bad Fox would rather pull the screenings than cut the guys running it a break and try to work out a mutually beneficial deal because its events like this that keep their property alive.

Unless its about the comic. The series is history; not news. Can we get some posts about stuff worth a damn? Or has AintItCool finally lost all relevancy for me. Haven't yet decided. Less Buffy, please.

that all these screenings may rain on a possible Joss Whedon big-screen SMG Buffy flick. I would think, tho, that the opposite would be true. This kind of fan adoration is what Paramount used to turn a failed sci-fi teevee series into a billion$ franchise. Why they're cockblocking this is beyond me. It's like they studied strategic opportunity management at the feet of Yassir Arafat.

but I have dear friends who are. This STINKS. I can't possibly understand how Fox could be loosing any serious type of dough on the frippin' sing-along! Okay, so, several people get to see the show without buying the DVD - a DVD bought and paid for by the person showing it. That group of several people? Okay, look, they're FANS. That's why they're there to begin with. THEY ALREADY HAVE A $%#$& COPY OF THE DVD!!! THEY'VE PAID YOU ALREADY, YA SCROOGEBAGS!
The come to these singalongs for the same reason Trek fans come to Trek conventions - they've seen every episode of every show, every film, and can recite every chapter of every piece of printed Trek in English, Klingon, Farsi and Leet. They already own the DVD, they're just there at the con or the singalong to share the experience with like-minded fans.
What boggles the mind is how Fox, as cash-nuts as they are, would skip this opportunity to turn more people onto the show and open up their fanbase. As I said, I'm not a fan, but I begrudge no one their enjoyment of Buffy, or any other show. The rules for showing Mystery Science Theatre 3000 (truly an enjoyable experience when shared) seem to be more lax for the time being, but you never know.
Also, congrats to all the Buffy fans who seem to be ignoring all the haters. Why someone would bother to leave a post about a show they hate in a talkback about the show is beyond me.

people actually congregate and watch a Buffy sing a long? seriously? dude if u have the DVD just get some people together and watch it that way why get all upset if u cannot watch it with strangers? I personally think its pretty lame idea, but hey if there is a audience for such a thing then the geeks will find away to make it keep happening.

spike and faith projects. They were all set to go, but the Fox execs wanted Joss to convince his crew + actors to do it for peanuts. Considering the money they could've made with the dvd selling at least several million copies from an initial investment of say a 2.5 million dollar budget. These execs are just too jewish for their own good.

Cancelling the licences because they're not getting enough of the profit? I thought most of these things were not-for-profit and/or for charity. The licences are paid for so Fox never lose money on these things. But, by cancelling these screenings, they get rid of events which publicise their products - without any cost to them!<p>The smart corporate decision would be to let fans have access to clips etc so that you have an enthusiastic base promoting your shows and DVDs for free. But by imposing strict conditions on licences and copyright material you make it harder for fans to spread the word. Now, instead of public screenings where Fox get paid a licence fee there will be private screenings which won't pay Fox a fee at all. What kind of corporation is so obsessed about controlling their products that they would turn down both licence payments and free publicity?

I made the mistake of going to see SERENITY on opening day, which it turns out was only for exclusive club members and not for civilians like me. I liked the movie but the crowd made me want to run away and hide in a bunker. The fuckers laughed at every joke - in fact, mostly not even jokes - before they happened. Imagine watching Star Wars or whatever but dubbed over with a laugh track from The Jeffersons that's a few seconds early for all the lines. And the people on the laugh track sound more like they're trying to prove they like the joke than that they actually like the joke. It was real uncomfortable. <p>
Before the movie there was a huge line and everybody was talking about how many times they had seen it so far THAT DAY. It was the opening day fer crying out loud.<p>
Before the movie started, some guy started a singalong of what I was later told was not even the theme song, but a song that somebody sang on one episode. And when it was over a guy behind me said with disappointment that he was surprised more people didn't sing along.<p>
Holy jesus, I can only imagine the horror of going to one of these screenings. I am kind of sad to now know that they existed. HOWEVER, this is America. People are allowed to do crazy shit, even be fucked by a horse in some states according to a talkbacker I once encountered. So nerds should be allowed to do whatever freaky, weird uncomfortable fetishes they like. In order to protect these freedoms that we hold dear we must defend the rights of even those things that appall us and offend our decency. So I can appreciate that Fox is trying to protect us from this, but honestly, I don't need that protection. Innocent people are not going to stumble into this nightmare on accident. Anybody that's gonna go to a "singalong screening" of a TV show is already WAY too far gone. At least keep 'em off the streets.<p>
No offense to sing alongers, just wanted to give a civilian perspective.

Mine was when Lucas released the special edition star wars into theaters and, similarly, someone behind me was laughing way too hard at the jokes. But that's the price of fandom. You take the good and the bad. Of course, this is not analogous to getting fucked by a horse! I still say it's animal abuse, paramount to statutory rape. The horse can't consent.

And I speak as someone who enjoyed watching Buffy and Angel in their original runs. But I declined going to one of these showings of the musical episode when a friend invited me. I don't get it -- I mean the shows were quite fun, but they were by no means consistently good. And there are a lot of good TV series on the air now, and TV writers and producers who I would argue who are just as good -- if not better -- than Whedon and his original staff. I bought the first four issues of the Buffy Season 8 comic but have stopped keeping up with it. I wonder if that the readership of that comic book series will taper off significantly, to the point where the book has to be concluded quickly before being canceled.

This site is built on the fetid fumes of fandom and you have the audacity to compare sing alongs to bestiality? From Star Trek remakes, Indiana Jones sequels and everything George Lucas, aintitcool thrives on fandom. But FOX has to protect "us" from singalongs? no, it aint cool.

if it was'nt for Fox, there would have never been any Buffy, Arrested, Futurama etc. so at least be thankful that your favorite fucking shows that you worship so much were ever made. Jesus. IT's THEIR PROPERTY!

Hi.
This is hugely depressing. I will do everything in my power to find out the exact reasoning for this and try to convince those responsible what a mistake it is. Of course, the words "my power" might confuse my gentle readers into believing I have any. I don't know what I'll be able to do, and I've no idea even where to start. Nor do I think this was done maliciously or capriciously. But it's lousy news and it's bad business. I'm hoping the latter element might prevail. I'll keep you posted.
Joss

hard work of the creator with that of the networks who are merely the middlemen. I owe zero allegiance to Fox, they are merely the gatekeepers due to the fact they hold the purse. Judging from the shows that they have mishandled I guarantee you just about anyone on this site could do their job as well if not better than them (including yourself). So, don't pretend to owe some sort of allegiance to people who's only benefit is they have a big bag of money, because it's the creators who truly make these shows possible. Look what happened to the music industry when these robber barons took their artists for granted, the artists found new ways of distributing their art. The middlemen take so much money out of the musician's coffers that if you download an entire album online the artists will only get, in a best case scenario, $1.50, which explains why so many musicians don't care anymore that their songs are downloaded because they make most of their money through concerts and merchandise. Musicians have realized they don't even need the middleman anymore. Radiohead just released their new album online and you can pay whatever you want for it, thus robbing some record company of several million dollars. So long as people pay more than $1.50 per album download they'll be making more than they would going through a middleman. Television will eventually have to deal with the growth of technology, and while it might take longer, eventually the ability to get an artist's product directly to the consumer will change the balance of power from the middleman to the artists.

...way to alienate about 50% of your readers. This site was built on "creepy" fandom. And while I don't particularly dig sing-alongs (and I love both Buffy and Rocky Horror), your comments are a little on the asinine side, don't you think?

No, Bob X, his comments reflect the opinion of many of us in fandom. Just like Vern, I seem to have missed why Whedon inspires such a scary level of devotion. The Browncoats make hardcore Trekkies look positively mainstream.

What's that stupid show called? The one that rips off Larry David and pretends to be funny and insightful but really just makes you want to bash the television in? Oh, and also, how the hell did the War at Home get so many seasons let alone episodes? It was dreadful. Fox, you used to be cool.

I'm not a brown-coat nor do I go to conventions but I can understand where they are coming from. Firefly was an excellent show, maybe even better then Star Trek, that fox dumped for no other reason then a possible hatred for it's creator. This typically causes the devoted fans to radicalize and do whatever they can to get it back on the air. It technically worked for Star-Trek.

I don't care for excessive fan worship: bad slash fan fiction, conventions, sing-alongs, costumes, beating dead jokes into the ground... NOT FOR ME. However, that FOX would shut them down BEFORE trying to take hold of these events somehow (official sponsorship / profit sharing) is just bad, bad business. And if they weren't concerned about profit losses, why shut them down at all? Is this some sort of stupid side-effect to the MPAA/RIAA file-sharing paranoia?

Although I'm sure I will get slayed for saying this, as this thread has nothing at all to do with this particular forthcoming TV show, after reading about how Fox have made this decision I hope ABC gets the live action Star Wars show instead of Fox, for 2 reasons.
1 - Fox would only cancel the fucker after 5 episodes and not show the other 95 LFL have made.
2 - Fox clearly doesn't know it's arse from its elbow.
I humbly rest my case.

First, fans should do whatever whacked out thing without being judged too harshly, so long as they're not hurting others. After all, posting on a movie website (and submitting articles for one) is looked down as "nerdy" by a large segment of the population. The way Vern is looking down on these Browncoats is how a large segment of the population looks down on him (and myself for that matter). On the other hand, for fandom and geekery to be widely accepted the more radical factions must be stopped. They give the rest of us a bad name and perhaps they're the reason some people might look down on us in the first place, and without them genre television, film, and literature would have more respect. I'm reminded of a story my brother was telling me about watching Star Trek in his college dorm. His friends rag on him (good naturedly) about hims watching Trek. One day he passed a dorm room with Trek playing and figured he had found a like-minded fan, but when he said "hey, you like Trek too," the guy turned around and gave him an antagonistic stare. As my brother described him he had a large frizzy planetoid of hair that didn't seem to be washed and big bug eyed glasses. After this my brother heard that the guy is anti-social and stay in his room most of the day. He was upset because this character was confirming all the weirdness that people associate with watching Trek. Anyway, I enjoy Whedon's work, and have yet to meet an obsessive fan (and hope I never do) but apparently they're out there, and they're giving the rest of us a bad name.

Remember all those nutjobs in the cold cream face makeup all dressed like extras from an internet Munsters fanclub with a camcorder ( I DONT CARE WHAT YOU SAY - THESE ARE NEW EPISODES OF THE MUNSTERS!!!!!!)?<p>Maybe the Rocky Horror creeps and the Buffy singalong hermaphs need to have a duel to the death - two freaks enter, one freak leaves. Or maybe no freaks leave - that would be great.<p>

...but the people who actually do that may have some social skills that talkbackers lack. After all, we give ourselves funky 'handles' instead of costumes, and we then communicate anonymously on the internet, some of you irrationally (you know who you are--wait, probably you don't!).<p>Sure it may be weird to go to sing alongs, but is it really more weird than sitting on this site and arguing with each other?<p>Live and Let Live, Post and Let Sing....

I was not insulting these freakos, I was standing up for their right to do weird shit. I do not look down on them, I just don't want to watch a fucking movie with them again or be in the same building when they start singing. Everyone has their limits and zones and that is just not a lifestyle I am comfortable with. By all means, force laughter before every line of your movies to prove that you have seen them already, sing nerd songs from TV and use made up space swear words. I believe in freedom and I would die for your right to do stupid shit like that. That is my point. Not that it is stupid but that Fox shouldn't stop you from doing it. I'm on your side.<p>
To clarify about the horsefucking part, I do not actually believe in the right to be fucked by a horse, and I DO believe in the right for nerds to sing. So don't take it the wrong way I was just saying if you can get fucked by a horse you should be able to do this too.<p>
Anyway I am a bigger Josh Wheeden fan than any of you because I like ALIEN RESURRECTION and even he doesn't like that shit. That doesn't mean I'm gonna sing along with it OR that I'm gonna stop you from singing along with it. Let's all be peaceful and co-exist just like Buffy the Vampire or Speed would've done. After all that's what his TVs and movies are really about, in my opinion, is people getting along, respecting each other's rights and not being such a pain in the ass to a dude just because his talkback is black and you take everything he says and pretend he said other things and then get all mad and take everything way too seriously and generally support every stereotype that you are angry about him supposedly having accused you of even though he didn't he was just defending your rights as a human being. (episode 8 season 2 of Firefly)

ooh, way to rub salt in the wounds of the browncoats, vern, when we all know there was only one season. way to sting the firefly fans---wait, I am a firefly fan, dammit<p>not cool, dude, not cool!<p>funny though, just not cool....

that those 'freakos' came out of the woodwork in response to 'the man' keeps doing this shit over and over again. If FOX and the industry just let Whedon be and let him have his little corner of Hollywood, this extreme fanbase would not exist.

I think it's a Catch-22. The trolls probably wouldn't troll if some of the Whedon fans didn't have such easy buttons to push, and the Whedon fans wouldn't react that way if people didn't keep pushing their buttons.
Now I'm going to watch the Pussycat Dolls video for "Buttons".

yeah...we were supposed to be at the sing-a-long in about 40 minutes(tonight, saturday the 13th) and freaking Fox pulls this crap on Thursday! Two damn days before we were supposed to go to this very cool event. People just hate St. Louis, that's what it is.

... J.K. Rowling and Warner Bros. suing those folks in India who were building a Hogwarts for a festival. Jeez. How do these entertainment conglomerates plan on keeping rabid fanbases on properties if they continually kick 'em in the junk? This is f'd up.

Shuttlecock: Just because people teased you about SW prequels, it doesn't give you carte blanche to tease other fanbois and grrls about their own tastes. You liked Transformers too. Must be cool to be so mainstream.
<p>
Pervo: A Whedon talkback wouldn't be the same without you. You and Tom B. should put out an album (Tom doing background harmoniZzzzzzing. Watch out Manhattan Transfer!
<p>
Vern: Of all the Charlie Brown's I've met, you are the Charlie Browniest. Wishy-washy motherfucker. If you are going to insult someone, give it to them straight. Good Fucking Grief. Be a Lucy.
<p>
PS: Equinas told me that horse cum tastes like hay!!!!o

They don't seem to be affected by Fox for some reason because they are replacing the OMWF screenings with the Universal movie. I didn't like the movie more than the TV show Firefly either but they have raised hundreds of thousands of dollars for charity showing Serenity. The movie itself doesn't seem to be the problem, more the TV shows (Buffy, Angel, Firefly). Which sort of makes Vern's take on everything a bit skewed. Serenity - it's spontaneous singing of the theme song and of "Jayne' s Town" - is still flying. It is one singular BUFFY episode that they are trying to stifle. I also find it interesting that other fans of other TV shows - BSG, Star Trek, Matlock, etc. - don't realize how these strong arm tactics can effect their own conventions.
<p>
As for Joss popping up to throw his two cents in regarding the embargo (if you will), I find it interesting that he immediatly addressed the kerfuffle about the "cease and desist" about the Sing-a-longs to Buffy, but has not mentioned the huge rumour regarding a Serenity 2 from a couple of weeks ago. As I said then, no news could be good news!

Paranounts legal dept. But fox did unleash the legal hounds over illeagal buffy fan sites, who were leaking Episode information. Maybe that is why Fox hates Harry so much. The rollerball thing still rankles with them obviously. and how did harry see The phantom Menace before anyone else.

understood the appeal of Buffy-the show is retarded, she is average looking at best (for being on tv). I could understand a cult forming around Jessica Alba or Firefly which was a pretty good show but Buffy was utterly without any redeeming qualities.

I love Buffy, Angel and Firefly, but I hate the fans. Here's the thing: I worked in a comic book store for quite some time, and the day it was announced that Whedon was thinking about writing a Buffy comic, (about a year and a half before the book actually came out, mind you) legions of his fat, duster and floppy hat wearing fans came into the store like a pack of ravenous wolves demanding (not inquiring about it, but demanding) the goddamn comic. We got an average of 30-40 a day for 6 weeks. Really? That's not how it works, fatty. When a band says they're working on a new album, do you go to the itunes, expecting it to be there? No, you do not. When a director announces his next film, do you show up at the movie theater before one frame is shot, demanding a special screening just for you? No you do not. Why? because that's not reality, and you would be considered insane if you did that in normal society. But Whedon says he's THINKING about doing something, and you people show up in droves expecting that I have a magic wand that can pull a half-conceived idea from a lisping bald man's brain and turn it into a comic book just for you? That's crazytown. And you know it.

Really? And all wearing dusters and floppy hats. And all fat.<p>Where do you live? Seriously, I don't think you could get that many people naturally so attired and weighty in any city. Maybe in LA, if you put out a CASTING CALL.<p>I bet you actually got the same 3 guys once a week.<p>Way to extrapolate, dude.

Hey OBSD, those people you were whining about are your GOD DAMN CUSTOMERS!!! If you don't like it that 30-40 people came into your store a day looking for something. Close your damned doors moron. What your supposed to do is find something else that those people might like. I mean honestly if you knew that it was going to be so bad after the first day and did nothing to find something for those FANS to purchase your the idiot here, not them.
And unless you own that comic shop, whos the real loser here, the people coming into spend their money there, or the pimple faced emo punk behind the counter bad mouthing the people that make his job possible.
Guys like you are why buying things on the internet exists.
TimT

...did that not, say, TRIPLE your foot traffic in a COMIC book store?<p>And you could find no way to take advantage of that?<p>Anyone else would have been glad of the free advertising. Which makes me believe you are fabricating the whole story.

I am an absolutely huge Whedon fan, and I think what he has done for television, particuarly Angel is some of the best stuff to grace the medium, but I'm incredibly uncomfortable amongst these die-hard singalong fans. I don't know, I have intense conversations with friends about the brilliance of "The Father Will Kill the Son", etc., but when I went to see Serenity, and a good deal of people had home-made versions of the hat Jayne got in one episode, and just focusing on minute shit like that really turned me off. I don't know, I suppose technically I'm not that different, but it's the whole way of presenting it. Make no mistake, there's nothing wrong with these people, and it's absolutely great to be passionate about something, I'm just saying these particular people make me uncomfortable, and that's coming from someone who loves the same subject matter as much as they do, if not more. That being said, Phantom of the Paradise should be just as popular as Rocky Horror is.

You really know me, guys. I was the "Pimple faced Emo punk kid behind the counter". Oh, wait... I wasn't. I was a damned good salesman who was almost never behind the counter dicking around when there were comics to be sold. I understood that the comics I sold to other people wouldn't mean dick in my paycheck, and still I did it because I loved the medium and wanted others to be into it as much as myself. I was considered mostly friendly and always helpful. Unless people started shit with me DEMANDING A COMIC THAT WOULDN'T EXIST FOR A YEAR AND A HALF! I never though to try and profit on that and never asked the owner to stock up on more of the other Buffy or Fray of Astonishing X-men trades. Oh, wait. I did. It didn't mean shit. That's not what these people were after. It's not that the store traffic went up, it's that people came in demanding a product THAT WOULDN'T EXIST FOR A YEAR AND A HALF! They weren't MY customers, or even comic book fans in general. They weren't looking for somebody to introduce them to the love of comics, they were fans of a specific thing looking ONLY for that thing THAT WOULDN'T EXIST FOR A YEAR AND A HALF! You try selling a substitute to somebody who wants a specific product THAT WON'T EXIST FOR A YEAR AND A HALF! It aint easy, dude. FREE ADVERTISING? for what? FOR A COMIC THAT WOULDN'T EXIST FOR A YEAR AND A HALF? What's that good for? I love how you guys jump all over my exaggeration and hyperbole and yet fail to recognize the insanity of demanding a product THAT WOULDN'T EXIST FOR A YEAR AND A HALF! It's not normal behavior to demand something THAT WON'T EXIST FOR A YEAR AND A HALF! You know the last time I behaved like that? I was 3 years old and I wanted to watch Sesame Street on a Sunday and I flipped out when I couldn't. Embarrassing? Definitely. But understandable behavior in a 3 year old. Not so understandable when a 35 year old does it.

"I loved the medium and wanted others to be into it as much as myself" but "never asked the owner to stock up on more of the other Buffy or Fray..."<p>So your response to effectively free advertising (that got people into your store, not advertising for a product a year and half away) was not to recognize that Here Are Some People New To Comics--they don't understand that it will be a while, but in the meantime I can introduce them to some others they might like, even some by the Same Author.<p>One of the reasons I went to comic stores instead of ordering online was exactly that--the knowledgeable salespeople could suggest new things to me based on my interests.<p>Yet you were a "damned good salesman" who "never though[t]" to do that....<p>That dog don't hunt....

But it obviously didn't make up all of the people who came into the store looking for that book. And it probably wasn't 30-or 40 a day for six weeks. But it was a larger than average contingent of Whedon fans, and it lasted for longer than what would be considered "normal". After a few weeks, my fellow co-workers and I could tell on sight (mostly by their behavior and appearance- which was rude and nerdy in a Renfair kinda way. hence the "fat floppy, duster" stereotype bit. Sorry) the people who were going to ask "Where's the new Buffy comic?" and we would be able to answer them before they even got out the first word. So once again, many apologies for trying to be funny. I won't try it again. Please don't gang up on me, Renfair people, or Whedon fans who aren't Renfair people or anybody who identifies with only one of the describers that I used, but is outraged that I used any of the others in conjunction with them, or people who can't see exaggeration or hyperbole for what they are (which is a sad attempt at humor, I guess)and instead view them as if I'm being literal in order to avoid the subject that demanding a product that doesn't exist is an example of insanity. Sorry.

Read my post again. Do it now. I'll wait. See? After I wrote the thing about not ordering other stuff did you see what I wrote? Look again carefully. In fact here it is all copied & pasted so you don't have to scroll up:
" I never though to try and profit on that and never asked the owner to stock up on more of the other Buffy or Fray of Astonishing X-men trades. Oh, wait. I did. It didn't mean shit. That's not what these people were after."
I wrote "Oh, wait. I did" meaning that I DID get more of the other comics and that it didn't make a lick of difference. Seriously dude, read someone's full post before you talkback in anger.

You're being paranoid man, I never called you weirdos names or insulted your bizarre lifestyle. For the third time, I believe in your right to do those things, no matter how much it makes other people squirm and wince. I am an old fashioned freedom lover, I believe even bastards like the KKK deserve the right to free speech, because you can't draw a line. You gotta protect even the worst if you're gonna have freedom. But when I say I believe in that right, those backwards morons don't write a talkback complaining that Vern called them a bigot. So why do you?<p>
As for nerds at the Star Trek movies and Lords of the Rings running around wearing capes and playing sword fights, no, I don't like that either but having witnessed it all first hand I would say that yes, the smaller group at the SERENITY screening made me much more uncomfortable. I think maybe because the other movies were such cultural phenomenons that most people could understand the appeal even if they weren't obsessive about it. With Serenity there was a desperation to try to force feed the movie down America's throat, trying to force it into becoming a phenomenon by wearing costumes and pretending it is worth watching ten times in one day. It just wasn't my scene is all I'm saying, I wish I had waited two weeks to see it on its last day and then I could've seen it without the interruptions by showboating nerds.<p>
Anyway I come from Seattle so I have seen this kind of thing lead to tragedy. There was a guy here who made the news world wide by waiting in line for months to see one of the star wars movies, I think it was part 2. He had a huge tent set up in the parking lot and was always being interviewed by radio stations and the Today show and shit, set up a websight, said it was an art project, that he was doing it for the children, etc. They always said he had his own media company so he didn't have to "get a job," he could work from his laptop while he was in line. Maybe he was a nice guy, I didn't know him personally but to me he was pretty annoying and before the movie he went up there in his Jedi robe and made a speech like everybody was there to see him and he had just won the Nobel Peace Prize for lightsaber excellence.<p>
It was a real cute fluff story for newspapers but later it turned out his "media company" was actually a gay porn production company. Nothing wrong with that either but kind of surprising they didn't mention that before. He really did use Star Wars to raise money for youth charities but he also was cheating on his partner having sex with young teen boys, and when one boy's parents reported him to the cops he killed himself. So now there is kind of a dark cloud hanging over that kind of nerddom in Seattle. I especially feel sorry for his poor bastard buddy who waited in line with him for part of the time. I bet he doesn't talk about it much anymore.<p>
Anyway, I'm just saying be careful The Dark Hawke.

...with your first statement being "Whedon fans are freakos" and follow it with hyperbolic claims, well, you might expect a few folks to be annoyed by that.<p>As with almost any product out there, there are a segment of the fans that are incredibly passionate. The rest of us get painted with that same brush by people who seem to want to pick a fight (coming into a TB about Whedon material and spewing venom).<p>I am a fan of a lot of Whedon's work, but not only Whedon's work. I don't dress up, I don't go to Cons, I don't go to singalongs--but I don't go trolling to hassle those that do.<p>I don't go into Talkbacks about shows that I hate, don't watch, and/or never will watch again.<p>I will complain about episodes of shows, or shows in general that I am watching and want to be better (last season of 24, Bionic Woman), but I don't go into the weekly SNL talkback just to hassle people who watch and enjoy it.<p>But, you apologized, and only meant to be funny. That shows some class, sir, and I for one, accept your apology. I also hope you will accept mine if I was overly harsh toward you.<p>peace

"There must be some way out of here," said the joker to the thief,<p>
"There's too much confusion, I can't get no relief.<p>
Businessmen, they drink my wine, plowmen dig my earth,<p>
None of them along the line know what any of it is worth."<p><p>
"No reason to get excited," the thief, he kindly spoke,<p>
"There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke.<p>
But you and I, we've been through that, and this is not our fate,<p>
So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late."<p><p>
All along the watchtower, princes kept the view<p><p>
While all the women came and went, barefoot servants, too.<p><p>
Outside in the distance a wildcat did growl,<p>
Two riders were approaching, the wind began to howl<p>

I guess the main thing is: it's one thing to be a fanatic around other fanatics. It's fun to be around like minded people at a convention or a Buffy sing-a-long (I was at one actually, 3 or 4 years ago. It was kinda fun.) It's a completely different experience to be at the receiving end of someone's fandom, pointed at you like a laser. Blaming you for their misunderstanding of something they read on the internet. And then having that laser being leveled at you over and over and over again can make one bitter about that particular brand of fandom, and maybe make it easier to paint all of those specific kinds of fans with one brush, so to speak.

I get uncomfortable around people who are Extreme "anything"--and dealing with customers in a retail store situation is hard on a good day. You learn to spot who is gonna be a troublemaker, and it is natural to do so.<p>I make no personal claims of being non-judgmental at all: actually, the best I can usually do is avoid situations in the first place. Hence the no Cons, Costumes, Sing-a-longs for me.<p>Sounds like you are more comfortable in situations that I would not be at all.<p>cheers!

...but I gotta say that there are thousands upon thousands more Super Crazy SPORTS fans out there--talk about extreme! <p>I guess if there are enough of anything, it can be considered normal.<p>"Put a DAMN SHIRT over that painted beer belly you nutjob!"<p>oops, was that out loud?

I think Lucas is a great Big Picture Epic Idea kinda guy, and Joss is a great character development and dialog writer. For me, the weak elements of the SW prequels (besides JarJar) were all to do with poor dialog and weak character development. Why not make the pre-dark-darth likeable? And why make the luminous, vibrant Natalie Portman into a wooden monotone character?

"I thought Serenity was a decent movie"
Yeah, see, now, THAT is the type of sentiment that makes me a little less wary of Whedon devotees. Even-handed, not too overblown. "It's this generation's Star Wars!" .... arright, now, when people say that, they've gone to far. It's not even because I'm a Star Wars fan, either. It's just ... man, it's just too far!

But, for me, great in its own way: As a non-extreme fan of Firefly, I was hugely disappointed in its early cancellation and generally crappy handling by Fox (spit spit) which had also dumped other shows I liked (Profit, Dark Angel, Wonderfalls). So, when the fanbase proved sizeable and 'spendable' enough to support the dvd set in an extraordinary way, and this led to a movie to sort-of close off the story arc a bit, well, I thought that was cool.<p>Was it the greatest movie ever? No. Was it a great movie for fans of Firefly: yes, in many ways--it gave us some closure that we wanted on the story arc, it was a nice bit of In Your Face to Fox, etc.<p>For me, the "greatness" of Serenity is as much about it origins as it is about telling the story the fans wanted told.<p>I think it is good to have, as DeNiro's Capone said, "enthusiasms". We don't all have the same ones, nor need we. And thank goodness for that! We can all pick and choose from a variety.<p>And we can all probably agree on this: Keel Haul Fox!

There are moments and episodes of Sheer Brilliance enough to go around:<p>Buffy: the moment of the reveal that they had brought her back from Heaven, then entire episode Hush<p>Firefly: the "I KNEW you let her kiss you!" moment from Our Mrs Reynolds, the entire Out of Gas episode<p>BSG: Baltar's torture scene, the entire 33 Minutes episode<p>ST:TNG: Picard's slow recovery from assimilation, the entire Worf "discommadation" episodes<p>on and on...

I would really like to know the Shepherd Book story.... I think it has to do with Serenity Valley, so they could go back to that time, and then the interval after the surrender up to the time he signed on with Serenity as a passenger...<p>let's hope Buffywrestling is right, and that Joss's silence on the matter means negotiations are underway.

No more kitchy, beatnick venues for watching and singing random french blues to episodes of the Twilight Zone in seedy, smoky bar basements. Looks like Desilu productions has shut down the Twilightzone-a-gogo viewings. *snaps fingers*

Totally agree re: Serenity's fasination had to with the origin of getting something on screen that the fans wanted to see. I thought it was pretty fancinating that a cancelled TV show got a movie turnover so quickly. And yes, there was also the "In your Face, Fox!". I felt it, although not to the extremes as others. I think those who were highly indignant made assholes out of themselves, not only here on the talkbacks but it seems like they spoiled Vern's viewing as well. If Browncoats smacked of desperation .... yeah, I guess it could be annoying but I sort of pitied them as well, going in with overexpectations that were never fully realized. I don't know. Perhaps Star Wars and Star Trek fans went through the same growing pains when they first started. If they continue, maybe they'll get the hang of it one day.
<p>
You and Shuttle_pod finding common ground and getting along really made my day! All teasing aside, that is awesome.
<p>
As for Live's "Poor Joss" comment, I don't really feel that sorry for him. I believe he has shown that he doesn't really like input regarding his art (from producers, networks, or actors). I mean, he'll take it, if he has to, but he doesn't really want to and gets a bit stubborn about it. It's an attitude that makes the business hard for him. A bit Diva, a bit protective. Still, when he gets as much free reign as possible, he really hits his stride.˙

I find it a tad bit hypocritical for anyone coming to a site like this, posting and calling fans 'freakos' - Sorry, Vern. Love your movie reviews, but you come off a bit suspicious here. I think everyone has a geek-line, where they look at some kind of fan behavior and say 'that's too far.' You certainly found yours. For instance, I've been to a Buffy sing-along and it's great fun (sold-out show, and it certainly was NOT all teenage girls, in fact I'd say it was mostly NOT teenage girls), but I've never found the need to dress up in costume and the like. The one time I did was for a Harry Potter book release thing - I dressed up like a Wizard, but that was mostly for my kids.
<p>What's that Freudian quote about the 'narcissism of small differences' or something like that? People tend to feel extreme discomfort or even hatred when they see someone like themselves who's goes just a bit further in one direction. I've certainly experienced it (it's the 'there but for the grace of God go I' syndrome. For Buffy fans, it's Xander's reaction to Andrew). You might want to consider that, Vern - as your extreme reaction to Browncoat singalongs seems a bit telling.
<p>And whoever drew the sports analogy, right on! I look around me at mainstream society and I see the same (if not more) level of obsession, attention to detail, arguments over these details, and crazed fandom at sports as I do with genre entertainment. It's really the same behavior but directed towards a different object of obsession, but sports fans are considered 'normal' because sports is accepted and supported by the mainstream, while genre fandom is considered 'nerdy' and 'freaky.' I think everyone has the potential to be an obsessed fan. Pick your poison.

because it was made for theaters. All it's contracts were written for theaters. But when Buffy/Angel/Firefly were all contracted it was all for TV and no contracts were written for how the various unions would get paid for theatrical showings. No one ever thought they would be shown in theaters.
I've been to 3 OMWF Buffy sing-a-longs, including the very last one in San Diego. You couldn't ask for a nicer bunch of people than Whedon fans. You might see a couple of people in costume, but generally not. It's a pretty well behaved, respectful crowd. There are no punks, no trouble, no fights, everyone has a good time. You'll see all ages attending and complete families. The point of Rocky Horror seems to be to make fun of one of the worst movies ever made. But Buffy fans really like the episode. We like the songs, the story, the villain. What a great idea, a singing, tap dancing villain. And played with great fun by Hinton Battle in a blue satin zoot suit no less. I mean, come on, that's style. And that's what it's all about. Just a bunch of us having a good time with some other fans who "get" Buffy. As you can see some people just don't "get it". And that's okay too. But if you do "get it", sometimes you want to be in a room full of other people who "get it" too.

Speculation that it was possibly Writer's Guild negoitations that drove the OMWF screening to a halt has seemingly proved false. An article from mtv.com has said it's SAG that sent Fox as SIX figured bill! Read the post at whedonesque.com (also with comments from the organizer "Sing-a-Long" in the comments section). T