It seems to me that Zimmerman triggered a series of events that resulted in a shooting. If they can find evidence that he planned on "getting someone" before that night they could charge him with something. If he doesn't have enough evidence that he was attacked then he could have a hard time arguing self defense.

Forgetting the legality of it for a moment it's just incredibly stupid. To me it would seem that if you are conceal carrying it would be in your best interest to avoid confrontation even more than if you were not carrying. The consequences of shooting someone are enormous. Most likely you'll lose your job, how do you go back to school, how do you sleep at night, how does it change your relationship with family, friends, neighbors? You'll get sued in civil court. That will cost you tens of thousands even if you win.

All Zimmerman had to do was stick to his own house and worry about his own family. If others on the street are in danger ... they can get their own guns. It's their problem. All he had to do was pack some pepper spray or maybe just leave it alone.

Now imagine if it had been a security guard named Zaheer, Zubaida, or Zulfiqar? The media and certain folks in here would be screeching that TERRORISM had reached our homes and gated communities. Patriot Act III would be on Obama's desk already.

We the public deserve an honest complete review of the facts with scientific interpretation and implications as to what really happened on 9/11. Bill Binney, Former senior technical director, NSA.

Now imagine if it had been a security guard named Zaheer, Zubaida, or Zulfiqar? The media and certain folks in here would be screeching that TERRORISM had reached our homes and gated communities. Patriot Act III would be on Obama's desk already.

It must be nice to just make up nonsense. I'll tell you what, why don't you go find all the posts about Fort Hood on here where anyone demanded anything like what you allege would happen for a much lesser offense.

Adding to that, we have the previously reported filing of trademark applications by Trayvon's mother. Tell me, how is that a grieving mother is interested in making her son's death into a slogan?

Exploiting someone's death is a no-no in itself, but in a pure capitalist society, where profit trumps principle every time, literally anything is liable to be the target of opportunists and parasites. The corporate media has exploited this incident heavily - advertisers are undoubtedly loving the ratings boom - and nobody;'s complianing about that!

We the public deserve an honest complete review of the facts with scientific interpretation and implications as to what really happened on 9/11. Bill Binney, Former senior technical director, NSA.

It must be nice to just make up nonsense. I'll tell you what, why don't you go find all the posts about Fort Hood on here where anyone demanded anything like what you allege would happen for a much lesser offense.

Your point is moot as no thread was initiated on the subject; it wasn't discussed.

However, the Fort Hood event generated a huge amount of hysteria nationwide; in a nation of regular serial killings with guns, this one happened to be committed someone with an Arabic name... so it was automatically classified, on a knee-jerk, as a terrorist incident, whereas all the others are merely "crimes". And as usual, Lieberman and Fox News were the first to spew...

We the public deserve an honest complete review of the facts with scientific interpretation and implications as to what really happened on 9/11. Bill Binney, Former senior technical director, NSA.

And it's funny how in half this thread one particular right wing poster (who shall remain unnamed) says that Zimmerman can't be racist because he's half Mexican, and then in the other half he says my friends aren't really minorities because they're only half Mexican, and Mexican is half white anyway....

Now imagine if it had been a security guard named Zaheer, Zubaida, or Zulfiqar? The media and certain folks in here would be screeching that TERRORISM had reached our homes and gated communities. Patriot Act III would be on Obama's desk already.

No, THIS is what's unreal. No one "supports" Zimmerman here. But pre-judging the entire thin a hate crime and making it a racial circus is absolutely not helping.

I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either.

Now imagine if it had been a security guard named Zaheer, Zubaida, or Zulfiqar? The media and certain folks in here would be screeching that TERRORISM had reached our homes and gated communities. Patriot Act III would be on Obama's desk already.

Did a single person posting here support him? If so what specifically were the words of support?

It seems to me that Zimmerman triggered a series of events that resulted in a shooting.

I think you may be right about that.

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If they can find evidence that he planned on "getting someone" before that night they could charge him with something.

Also probably true.

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If he doesn't have enough evidence that he was attacked then he could have a hard time arguing self defense.

From what I understand, that's not how the law works in Florida. It's up to the police and attorney's to determine if there is enough evidence to contradict his story. Apparently the initial judgement is there wasn't, because he was not charged after talking with police.

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Forgetting the legality of it for a moment it's just incredibly stupid. To me it would seem that if you are conceal carrying it would be in your best interest to avoid confrontation even more than if you were not carrying.

Why?

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The consequences of shooting someone are enormous. Most likely you'll lose your job, how do you go back to school, how do you sleep at night, how does it change your relationship with family, friends, neighbors? You'll get sued in civil court. That will cost you tens of thousands even if you win.

That depends on your actions, now doesn't it?

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All Zimmerman had to do was stick to his own house and worry about his own family. If others on the street are in danger ... they can get their own guns. It's their problem. All he had to do was pack some pepper spray or maybe just leave it alone.

Yeah, I disagree with that. That might be what you would do, but many people feel differently. We had a string of minor thefts and suspicious characters coming and going in my townhouse community. Some people had weapons, some people did not. I'm not a gun guy, but I'll be honest..I really thought about buying a shotgun for shock value if needed. Granted, I wasn't going to go by a 9mm and a harness, but it was a thought. One or two of my neighbors actually chased some teenagers down who were stealing things out of people's cars (cars that were left open). The point is that when a neighborhood is threatened, people are often not just willing to sit back and watch their front door.

I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either.

Did a single person posting here support him? If so what specifically were the words of support?

By demonizing the deceased - before all the facts come out - one is effectively supporting the shooter. The rightwing media is already on this, by publishing faked pictures such as this, featuring a suited, smiling "respectable looking" Zimmerman, next to a kid with 'attitude' in prison-shade orange pants, stripped to the waist, underwear showing, with a 4 finger gesture. The problem here is that the kid in the picture is NOT Trayvon Martin.

The shooting happened over a month ago, and probably much information has been buried by now. The black media were on this case right away but for the corporate media, it wasn't a story.... until recently. Parts of the story we don't hear about are the most harrowing... the kid's mom, worried sick about her missing son repeatedly called the police every few hours, only to be told "don't know, maam". This went on for three days until she found out... and all the while, the kid's body was in the morgue... and the the cops claimed they didn't know?

Yeah. Right.

We the public deserve an honest complete review of the facts with scientific interpretation and implications as to what really happened on 9/11. Bill Binney, Former senior technical director, NSA.

Your point is moot as no thread was initiated on the subject; it wasn't discussed.

It isn't moot. The point is that you made a declaration that certain parties on the forums and certain news organizations would take certain actions.

ow imagine if it had been a security guard named Zaheer, Zubaida, or Zulfiqar? The media and certain folks in here would be screeching that TERRORISM had reached our homes and gated communities. Patriot Act III would be on Obama's desk already.

Yes so basically a mass shooting on a military base didn't even raise much of an eyebrow thereby showing your claims of paranoia and hysteria are nonsense.

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However, the Fort Hood event generated a huge amount of hysteria nationwide; in a nation of regular serial killings with guns, this one happened to be committed someone with an Arabic name... so it was automatically classified, on a knee-jerk, as a terrorist incident, whereas all the others are merely "crimes". And as usual, Lieberman and Fox News were the first to spew...

What actions have taken place from Fort Hood? You declared that legislation would be passed. You make it sound like someone killing 13 and wounding 29 people, a total of 42 people, at a very large military base shouldn't even make someone blink or cause any concern. That's just nonsense. There was no hysteria, backlash or any other nonsense you've claimed. One link to a Huffington Post piece warning about the possibility of such actions is in no form the same as people taking those actions.

You're in a very sad place right now.

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Originally Posted by tonton

The whole premise that Obama was stoking racial tensions because he said his kid might look like Trayvon is completely and utterly absurd, and only a racist can link race to such a statement.

The fact is, Obama was stoking familial tension. If you want to criticize that, fine.

If a white dude were killed when Bill Clinton was president and he said, "If I had a son, he might look like (John)," it would never have been questioned as being a race-related thing to say.

You think it's racist for Obama to say that because either:

1) Youre racist; or
2) You ejaculate at any chance you get to try to criticize Obama on any subject.

Nonsense, first of all Bill Clinton nor any of his surrogates could never say "Here's a white dude who was killed and it is proof of white male victim status, proof of white males being systematically being hunted and also proof of a white males being hunted" because none of them would ever seek victim status for white males. Obama has done this for every wedge group he wants to mobilize by claiming they've been victimized. If Clinton did say that about white male and specifically said that other racial groups were victimizing them, then it would indeed be use of race. The reality is race was injected into this by Obama and Democratic surrogates and it has no place in what happened. People saying rule of law, presumption of innocence, don't tell mobs you want someone dead or live, etc are not the racists here. Anyone who would say that is ignorant or worse just maliciously trying to exploit emotions.

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Originally Posted by tonton

And it's funny how in half this thread one particular right wing poster (who shall remain unnamed) says that Zimmerman can't be racist because he's half Mexican, and then in the other half he says my friends aren't really minorities because they're only half Mexican, and Mexican is half white anyway....

Fucking retard.

To a racist, everything is racist.

The reality is that race is used different ways by different people. I was noting your friends are Caucasian. That is true. However in the United States we do not merely consider race to be a matter of skin but of ethnicity. In some parts of the world race is sometimes ONLY ethnicity. Japanese and Chinese do not consider themselves to be of the same race but they are indeed of the same race but are obviously different ethnicities. You know better than this and are just bitter that you were slapped down so badly for your bad logic.

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Originally Posted by sammi jo

By demonizing the deceased - before all the facts come out - one is effectively supporting the shooter. The rightwing media is already on this, by publishing faked pictures such as this, featuring a suited, smiling "respectable looking" Zimmerman, next to a kid with 'attitude' in prison-shade orange pants, stripped to the waist, underwear showing, with a 4 finger gesture. The problem here is that the kid in the picture is NOT Trayvon Martin.

The shooting happened over a month ago, and probably much information has been buried by now. The black media were on this case right away but for the corporate media, it wasn't a story.... until recently. Parts of the story we don't hear about are the most harrowing... the kid's mom, worried sick about her missing son repeatedly called the police every few hours, only to be told "don't know, maam". This went on for three days until she found out... and all the while, the kid's body was in the morgue... and the the cops claimed they didn't know?

Yeah. Right.

Do you read your own links? Media Matters was having to apologize to Drudge because they claimed he ran a fake photo and he did no such thing. The photo you are linked to shows the absurdity of how the picture the media was running of Zimmerman was a mugshot from an arrest (or something similar) and the only photos they would run of Martin all were of him at age 11-12 as can clearly be seen by his lack of development in them. The reality is no one in the media were running recent photos of either party. So the photo is ironically noting how the media was spinning the story. You don't appear to catch the irony there.

Fox is really in a frenzy about Obama's comments. Now they have their "doctor" (I know many good doctors who would never say the crap this guy says) say that Martin would not have looked like Obama... just to delete any meaning from Obama's message.

The video presumably doesn't lie. There's no blood or bruises, as claimed, on Zimmerman. it looks like the guy was either outright lying, or he embellished his account regarding "being assaulted" by Martin. I guess he was scared witless, having just killed someone, and probably thought he was going to get charged with 2nd degree murder... and said all kinds of stuff to try to make out that it wasn't his fault.

Will the Fox etc. crew to claim that the video has been doctored?

We the public deserve an honest complete review of the facts with scientific interpretation and implications as to what really happened on 9/11. Bill Binney, Former senior technical director, NSA.

By demonizing the deceased - before all the facts come out - one is effectively supporting the shooter. The rightwing media is already on this, by publishing faked pictures such as this, featuring a suited, smiling "respectable looking" Zimmerman, next to a kid with 'attitude' in prison-shade orange pants, stripped to the waist, underwear showing, with a 4 finger gesture. The problem here is that the kid in the picture is NOT Trayvon Martin.

The shooting happened over a month ago, and probably much information has been buried by now. The black media were on this case right away but for the corporate media, it wasn't a story.... until recently. Parts of the story we don't hear about are the most harrowing... the kid's mom, worried sick about her missing son repeatedly called the police every few hours, only to be told "don't know, maam". This went on for three days until she found out... and all the while, the kid's body was in the morgue... and the the cops claimed they didn't know?

It seems to me that Zimmerman triggered a series of events that resulted in a shooting. If they can find evidence that he planned on "getting someone" before that night they could charge him with something. If he doesn't have enough evidence that he was attacked then he could have a hard time arguing self defense.

Forgetting the legality of it for a moment it's just incredibly stupid. To me it would seem that if you are conceal carrying it would be in your best interest to avoid confrontation even more than if you were not carrying. The consequences of shooting someone are enormous. Most likely you'll lose your job, how do you go back to school, how do you sleep at night, how does it change your relationship with family, friends, neighbors? You'll get sued in civil court. That will cost you tens of thousands even if you win.

All Zimmerman had to do was stick to his own house and worry about his own family. If others on the street are in danger ... they can get their own guns. It's their problem. All he had to do was pack some pepper spray or maybe just leave it alone.

An old saying in life is Mind Your Own Business.I would not want to be in Zimmerman's shoes at all .His life is tarnished now.

Fox is really in a frenzy about Obama's comments. Now they have their "doctor" (I know many good doctors who would never say the crap this guy says) say that Martin would not have looked like Obama... just to delete any meaning from Obama's message.

Whatever. It's an anti-Obama guy on TV. shocker. He actually makes a good point here though:

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"If the President had a son, he wouldn't look anything like Trayvon Martin," Ablow said. "He'd be wearing a blazer from his prep school, he'd be driving a Beemer and he'd be surrounded by Secret Service. So the president saying 'I can only feel for this kid because he looks physically like me' is absurd ... what about the united view that everybody appreciates what it is to lose a son of any color?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammi jo

The video presumably doesn't lie. There's no blood or bruises, as claimed, on Zimmerman. it looks like the guy was either outright lying, or he embellished his account regarding "being assaulted" by Martin. I guess he was scared witless, having just killed someone, and probably thought he was going to get charged with 2nd degree murder... and said all kinds of stuff to try to make out that it wasn't his fault.

Will the Fox etc. crew to claim that the video has been doctored?

I noticed that as well and I agree the lack of blood, bruising, etc. seems to contradict his story. Just as with the other information, it proves nothing on either side. We'll have to see what the special prosecutor and presumably, grand jury decide to do.

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Originally Posted by marvfox

An old saying in life is Mind Your Own Business.I would not want to be in Zimmerman's shoes at all .His life is tarnished now.

The idiocy of these two statements is astounding.

I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either.

Seneca police said they arrested six men Wednesday in connection with the beating of a North Carolina man at Applebee's earlier in March.

Police said their investigation determined that the victim was beat by the group of men and the incident may have been racially motivated. The department said they forwarded the case to the FBI to determine if it should be pursued further as a hate crime under federal law.

He did the same thing with that Georgetown professor a couple years which ended with the "Beer Summit." Granted, back then, his rhetoric hadn't evolved enough that he was making familial references ("Hey, that guy looks like he could have been my uncle.") in order to try and create some connective tissue between him and something bad that happened to another black person. I'm sure it's just that his narcissism is now in full bloom.

He's done it a few times. He either doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut or he truly thinks it is necessary for him to chime in on everything.

He did the same thing with that Georgetown professor a couple years which ended with the "Beer Summit." Granted, back then, his rhetoric hadn't evolved enough that he was making familial references ("Hey, that guy looks like he could have been my uncle.") n order to try and create some connective tissue between him and something bad that happened to another black person. I'm sure it's just that his narcissism is now in full bloom.

Indeed.

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He's done it a few times. He either doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut or he truly thinks it is necessary for him to chime in on everything.

He doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut. He never has. It's been wall-to-wall media Obama media saturation since 2008. I will say this...while he's not stupid, I think he's gravely underestimating the amount of political hatred towards him in the nation. It's not just Tea Party folks and religious right, either. Moderates have bailed on him in droves. He's down as much as 30% amongst blacks, and down amongst women (hence the phony birth control/Sandra Fluke controversy).

Much of it is deliberate. Where I think he's misjudging is how effective it will be in November. I have never seen such widespread and deep-seeded disapproval of a President both politically and personally (as in his demonstrated personality), and that includes Bush.

I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either.

Well, we should any oil industry specific subsidies. But the timing of his remarks do appear to be dumb from a political strategy perspective.

That's all I'm saying. I'm not sure if it's just political miscalculation, or blatant ignorance. Actually, I think it's more his personality coupled with the man pulling the political marionette strings...David Axelrod. Think Rove was dirty? He doesn't hold a candle to the stuff Axelrod has done and plans to do.

But here again, I think they seriously underestimate the American people and the amount of anti-Obama, anti-government sentiment out there. They think it's just among the Tea Party and social conservatives (and libertarians). But it's much, much worse. The only real supporters of the President are the hard leftists (who are not enthused with him because they want him to go even further left) and blind partisans (professional politicians, pundits, lifelong Democrats who will vote "D" until they die, et al).

I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either.

Hilarious. The president should "keep his mouth shut". A phrase from the old south, I'm sure.

I guess the president shouldn't answer questions then. Because he didn't opt to comment on it on his own. Or maybe the press shouldn't bother the POTUS silly things like what's going on in his own country. How lame, right?

"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."

Hilarious. The president should "keep his mouth shut". A phrase from the old south, I'm sure.

I guess the president shouldn't answer questions then. Because he didn't opt to comment on it on his own. Or maybe the press shouldn't bother the POTUS silly things like what's going on in his own country. How lame, right?

Yeah, actually. When what he says only detracts from the case or adds fuel to the fire. Fact is, he doesn't actually need to comment on everything, even when asked and sometimes it would be better if he didn't.

Hilarious. The president should "keep his mouth shut". A phrase from the old south, I'm sure.

I take it that's a veiled way of claiming we're racists. Got it

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I guess the president shouldn't answer questions then. Because he didn't opt to comment on it on his own. Or maybe the press shouldn't bother the POTUS silly things like what's going on in his own country. How lame, right?

He should answer questions. It's the answers he gives that are the problem.

I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either.

Don't worry, if somebody were to charge them or file a complaint, the Justice Department led by the incompetent Eric Holder will simply dismiss it, just like they did with the voter intimidation case a while back.

What's up Obama? You can't even bother to take 5 minutes out of your extremely busy schedule and you instead completely ignore three separate letters concerning two murdered British students in Florida?

I suppose that the British students were not wearing hoodies and the murderer was the wrong color and the British students didn't look like they could be Obama's sons.

Obama is an absolute disgrace. I also believe that he is a racist. Because a racist is somebody who treats different situations differently, solely based on the race of those involved.

"Mr Kouzaris has written to President Obama on three separate occasions and is yet to even receive the courtesy of a reply.
"It would perhaps appear that Mr Obama sees no political value in facilitating such a request or that the lives of two British tourists are not worthy of ten minutes of his time."