Biness:xen0blue: it's idiots doing shiat like this which will ultimately doom the whole white house online petition thing.

farking morons

in fairness, it was pretty stupid to begin with

Agree with this, I do.Attaching a direct line from the Internet to the White House was just a beacon to attract every idiot with a half thought suggestion or political axe to grind, and it just so happens that idiots move in large numbers.His men probably thought they could use it as a means to legitimize certain issues, and not that it would be usurped by trolls instead.

Onkel Buck:In light of recent events and all the knee jerking reactionaries do we really want to bulid anything with Death in the title? I thought we are trying to ban deadly things this week

This week on a special episode of NCIS, an investigation into the death of a former Navy SEAL takes Gibbs and Ziva into a dangerous situation, which they are able to resolve through 25 minutes of dialogue and sharing of feelings.

hdhale:This week on a special episode of NCIS, an investigation into the death of a former Navy SEAL takes Gibbs and Ziva into a dangerous situation, which they are able to resolve through 25 minutes of dialogue and sharing of feelings.

Ahhh, I see what you're doing, you're conflating a situation where deadly force is required to a situation where a psychopath used a weapon to slaughter innocents. How's that make you feel? A little slimy?

TofuTheAlmighty:Dissolve the Senate? Yes, please. It has always been profoundly antidemocraticwas designed to impede rushing into things but now it is nothing but a huge impediment to governanceto me getting my way. *stamps tiny foot*.

jvl:TofuTheAlmighty: Dissolve the Senate? Yes, please. It has always been profoundly antidemocraticwas designed to impede rushing into thingsdesigned to ensure state representation in a genuine republic, but hasn't been that since the 17th Amendment but now it is nothing but a huge impediment to governanceto me getting my wayway for the tyranny of one Senator to impede the progress of the entire nation.

Rent Party:jvl: TofuTheAlmighty: Dissolve the Senate? Yes, please. It has always been profoundly antidemocraticwas designed to impede rushing into things designed to ensure state representation in a genuine republic, but hasn't been that since the 17th Amendment but now it is nothing but a huge impediment to governanceto me getting my way way for the tyranny of one Senator to impede the progress of the entire nation.

Rent Party:jvl: TofuTheAlmighty: Dissolve the Senate? Yes, please. It has always been profoundly antidemocraticwas designed to impede rushing into things designed to ensure state representation in a genuine republic, but hasn't been that since the 17th Amendment but now it is nothing but a huge impediment to governanceto me getting my way way for the tyranny of one Senator to impede the progress of the entire nation.

FTFY

Indeed.

There's a reason the 17th amendment was passed by 2/3rds of the voters and both Houses. State election of senators was a corrupt morass of patronage politics.

jvl:Rent Party: jvl: TofuTheAlmighty: Dissolve the Senate? Yes, please. It has always been profoundly antidemocraticwas designed to impede rushing into things designed to ensure state representation in a genuine republic, but hasn't been that since the 17th Amendment but now it is nothing but a huge impediment to governanceto me getting my way way for the tyranny of one Senator to impede the progress of the entire nation.

Things you might want to know about the Federalist Papers: They only represent the views of the Federalists. If those guys had their way, Senators would still be appointed by the states, and there would be no Bill of Rights. Thomas Jefferson thought they were a bunch of assholes, and so did John Marshal.

Things you might want to know about the Federalists: They, too, faded away into obscurity after they became obsolete.

Things you don't need to refresh your memory on: A Senator can only impede by actually standing there and talking.

Things you might want to know about Senate Rules:

1) No, they don't.2) The Senate controls, to 100% degree, every aspect of how they create legislation.3) They have used #2 to allow individual Senators to completely block the progress of the nation.4) They could have, at any time, done away with #3, and yet have not.

The conclusion we can reach is that the Senate has become a clubhouse for obstructionist cocks, and should be done away with. It is an anachronism.

theorellior:Rent Party: jvl: TofuTheAlmighty: Dissolve the Senate? Yes, please. It has always been profoundly antidemocraticwas designed to impede rushing into things designed to ensure state representation in a genuine republic, but hasn't been that since the 17th Amendment but now it is nothing but a huge impediment to governanceto me getting my way way for the tyranny of one Senator to impede the progress of the entire nation.

FTFY

Indeed.

There's a reason the 17th amendment was passed by 2/3rds of the voters and both Houses. State election of senators was a corrupt morass of patronage politics.

PunGent:xria: dv-ous: I'm all for messing with politicians, but actually building a Death Star would be Really Freakin' Expensive.

How about just a petition to dissolve the Senate?

I guess when you have 1.5 million worlds* industrial production at your fingertips (and much more advanced technology), you can make more stuff than we could on earth.

*only counting full member worlds, not colonies of course

1.5 million member worlds? Really?

The more I learn about Star Wars' "history" the less impressed I am.

In a governmental system that big, something like the Death Star taking out Alderan wouldn't inspire terror...it wouldn't even make the legal notices at the back of the local paper...

Not necessarily. According to the movies, prior to the construction of the Death Star it would have taken the firepower of half the imperial fleet to blow up an entire planet. Judging from how the characters react to the destruction of Alderaan, it seems unlikely that anyone had actually blown up a planet before, but even if someone had, having one ship with that much firepower would have been a really big deal, much as the atomic bomb (i.e. a single bomb that could level an entire city) was a big deal at the end of World War II.

The idea of a Death Star is pretty hokey to begin with, though, since it would take far less energy to destroy a planet's biosphere than to destroy the entire planet. So even if you could muster the energy to reduce a planet to an asteroid field, it would be a hugely wasteful to actually do so.

anfrind:PunGent: xria: dv-ous: I'm all for messing with politicians, but actually building a Death Star would be Really Freakin' Expensive.

How about just a petition to dissolve the Senate?

I guess when you have 1.5 million worlds* industrial production at your fingertips (and much more advanced technology), you can make more stuff than we could on earth.

*only counting full member worlds, not colonies of course

1.5 million member worlds? Really?

The more I learn about Star Wars' "history" the less impressed I am.

In a governmental system that big, something like the Death Star taking out Alderan wouldn't inspire terror...it wouldn't even make the legal notices at the back of the local paper...

Not necessarily. According to the movies, prior to the construction of the Death Star it would have taken the firepower of half the imperial fleet to blow up an entire planet. Judging from how the characters react to the destruction of Alderaan, it seems unlikely that anyone had actually blown up a planet before, but even if someone had, having one ship with that much firepower would have been a really big deal, much as the atomic bomb (i.e. a single bomb that could level an entire city) was a big deal at the end of World War II..

But in the first movie, you weren't given the idea that their were anything like 1.5 million inhabited worlds, at least that I recall. So, in the movie, the DS was a credible threat, and blowing up Alderan makes the Empire capital E-evil. If there's 1.5 million inhabited planets, Vader's reduced to something like the whackjob who shot up the elementary school. Evil, but not grand-scale epic villain.

I figured there were, I dunno, a hundred planets. Having a million of them reduces Vader by a factor of...crap, I was told there'd be no math...well, by a couple orders of magnitude.

It's the backstory additions that weaken the earlier, pure narrative, imho. In other words...less is more.

It's like all the crap Lucas added in when he re-mastered the movies.

Or, take the light saber: cool, elegant weapon. 10/10.

Take Darth Maul's double ended light saber: twice as many blades, should be twice as cool, right? nope, less cool, 6/10

What's his name, the robot sith guy, with four twirling light sabers? not four times as cool; instead, kiddie stuff, 2/10

My understanding is the "canon" literature has "light axes": not cool. At all. 1/10.

PunGent:But in the first movie, you weren't given the idea that their were anything like 1.5 million inhabited worlds, at least that I recall. So, in the movie, the DS was a credible threat, and blowing up Alderan makes the Empire capital E-evil. If there's 1.5 million inhabited planets, Vader's reduced to something like the whackjob who shot up the elementary school. Evil, but not grand-scale epic villain.

You also have to consider population density. Take the planet Yoda lived on, for example. I was under the impression that he was the only sentient being living there. So, that's an "inhabited planet", but nobody would have really missed it (except for Luke, of course).

I've often wondered about the 2nd Death Star. According to the title crawl it was supposed to be bigger and more powerful than the first. Yet, the first one blew up an entire planet with a single shot. The 2nd one destoyed a few large cruisers, and that was it. You'd think the laser was that strong, it would cut directly through the hull of multiple cruisers with each shot.

//That is all.

Well, one would assume that it's not a laser; a laser would not cause a planet to explode, it'd just burn a rather large hole in it. Whatever space-magic the Death Star beam is, it seems to simply cause whatever it hits to explode -- be it a ship, a planet or (one could assume) a Bieber.

PunGent:xria: dv-ous: I'm all for messing with politicians, but actually building a Death Star would be Really Freakin' Expensive.

How about just a petition to dissolve the Senate?

I guess when you have 1.5 million worlds* industrial production at your fingertips (and much more advanced technology), you can make more stuff than we could on earth.

*only counting full member worlds, not colonies of course

1.5 million member worlds? Really?

The more I learn about Star Wars' "history" the less impressed I am.

In a governmental system that big, something like the Death Star taking out Alderan wouldn't inspire terror...it wouldn't even make the legal notices at the back of the local paper...

Not to mention it makes the Emperor far less evil. In fact, with the obvious logistical bukkake that governing a million+ worlds would be like with a bureaucratic system of representative democracy, the Emperor's choice of letting the "regional governors have direct control of their systems" seems to be a move towards distributed and self-reliant government rather than centralized federal powers.

One could say the Emperor did the galaxy a huge favor by ridding it of an obviously corrupt and ill-suited bureaucracy that was far too influenced by a religious sect...

PunGent:But in the first movie, you weren't given the idea that their were anything like 1.5 million inhabited worlds, at least that I recall. So, in the movie, the DS was a credible threat, and blowing up Alderan makes the Empire capital E-evil. If there's 1.5 million inhabited planets, Vader's reduced to something like the whackjob who shot up the elementary school. Evil, but not grand-scale epic villain.

I figured there were, I dunno, a hundred planets. Having a million of them reduces Vader by a factor of...crap, I was told there'd be no math...well, by a couple orders of magnitude.

It's the backstory additions that weaken the earlier, pure narrative, imho. In other words...less is more.

I can agree with most of that, although in the final scene of "Empire Strikes Back", it is hinted at that the Empire spans the entire galaxy, which would make 1.5 million planets seem plausible. The significance of that might be lost on your typical movie-goer, however, as most people simply can't wrap their heads around something that big.

I'd argue that "Star Wars", like most "soft" science fiction, has had problems with scale from the beginning. Case in point: Han Solo bragged early on that the Millenium Falcon could do "point-five past light-speed", which is never explained but it sounds like he means it can go 1.5 times the speed of light. That means it would take almost three years to travel the distance between our sun and Alpha Centauri, and about 80,000 years to travel across the galaxy (assuming a galaxy of the same size as the Milky Way), and obviously the Millennium Falcon and nearly every other spaceship in those stories are traveling from one star system to another in far less time than that.

you are in SO the wrong thread, of the wrong tab, of the wrong website of the wrong type, to be making such basic errors. My 12 year old niece could win moar fark than you. And totally PWN you at internets.