Immigration debate heats up over McCain’s fiery remarks

posted at 6:40 pm on June 21, 2011 by Tina Korbe

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) this weekend linked the fires that have raged across the Southwest in recent weeks to another hot issue — illegal immigration. The senator’s straightforward remarks — he said undocumented immigrants have been known to intentionally start such fires — have since drawn both support and censure, but the former presidential candidate hasn’t revised a word of them.

Appearing at a weekend news conference, Mr. McCain said that illegal immigrants “have set fires because they wanted to signal others …. and they have set fires because they wanted to divert law enforcement agencies.”

On Tuesday, Mr. McCain said in an interview on NBC’s “Today” show he was “puzzled” by the firestorm that has erupted after his remarks.

“We know that people who come across our border illegally … that these fires are sometimes, some of them, caused by this,” he said. Mr. McCain added, “I’m puzzled … that there should be any controversy.” He said he was merely repeating information he’d been given during a briefing with federal officials, including the U.S. Forest Service, before he appeared at the news conference.

Critics of McCain’s comments, including the Phoenix-based Hispanic civil rights group Somos America and Rep. Raul Grijalva (D-Ariz.), claim he’s making a scapegoat of illegal immigrants, but Arizona Republicans Sen. John Kyl and Rep. Paul Gosar defended McCain, saying they, too, had received information to suggest undocumented workers have started such fires in the past and might even have had something to do with the most recent sequence.

Officials have linked three recent fires in Arizona to human activity, but it’s not clear whether a connection exists between the fires and immigrants in the country illegally.

Either way, the fuss reflects just how touchy the issue of illegal immigration has become. States across the country, from Oklahoma to Alabama, have taken steps this spring to secure their borders and Georgia’s set to become the next battleground.

McCain cited border security as a top priority in his recent comments — and, indeed, increased border security would render moot this debate about whether any of those who cross the border illegally ever intentionally ignite wildfires.

“There is substantial evidence that some of these fires have been caused by people who have crossed our border illegally,” McCain said. “The answer to that part of the problem is to get a secure border.”

That’s what the American people want, as well. According to a poll released yesterday by Rasmussen Reports, 64 percent of likely U.S. voters say border security should be the top priority when it comes to immigration policy.

That’s not to say Americans don’t support immigration: The same poll shows 61 percent of those likely voters favor a welcoming immigration policy. That is, the majority believes the goal of U.S. immigration policy should be only to keep out national security threats, criminals and those who come here to live off our welfare system. Beyond that, all immigrants should be welcome.

McCain’s remarks make a scapegoat of undocumented workers only if he made them up. If the comments were rooted in credible information, which all indications suggest they were, then they were a responsible mention of yet another way a breakdown in border security leaves states vulnerable to criminals. I believe strongly that it’s possible and indeed necessary to talk about the negative aspects of illegal immigration — the threat it poses to the rule of law, the security risks of a weak border — while still respecting the personhood of immigrants, many of whom have found themselves one-time rule-breakers who now live in a shadowland of uncertainty themselves. The American people have the formula exactly right: Increased border security + a generally welcoming immigration policy = the right balance to strike.

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My wife and my prayers go out to you. Our daughter has been evacuated since Thursday. She nearly lost her house on Sunday. The house kitty-corner to her burned to the ground. They got control before it took out any more houses on her street. They lost most of the houses on the next block east of her.

That is, the majority believes the goal of U.S. immigration policy should be only to keep out national security threats, criminals and those who come here to live off our welfare system. Beyond that, all immigrants should be welcome.

Personally I think America is worth saving and we should not allow the 3rd world to move in and take over even if they’re not criminals. Could you imagine what would become of America if a billion Chinese decided to help themselves to America and moved here next year?

I support limited legal immigration, not unlimited.

For one thing, I do not want 30 million unmarried Chinese men coming here looking for wives that their culture aborted. Perhaps in the case of legal Chinese immigrants we should require an approximately equal ratio of men to women to prevent that from happening.

For one thing, I do not want 30 million unmarried Chinese men coming here looking for wives that their culture aborted. Perhaps in the case of legal Chinese immigrants we should require an approximately equal ratio of men to women to prevent that from happening.

I was pulling your chain a bit. The Tucson sector has the largest crossing of illegals. They apprehended over 300,000 last year and that was off from previous years. God only knows how many actually got through.

How about this for a compromise? We’ll deport MeggyMac and her Pappy and allow Mexico to import an equal amount (measured in body weight). Yeah, on the surface, it’s not fair for us, but at least we get rid of those two.

Anyone who lives on the border knows he’s right. In San Diego dozens of fires are started in the southeast of the county by illegals. As soon as the weather heats up you can count on smoke rising from south of Jamul or Dulzura.

The HSA is run by flat out liars. Assume everything they say is a lie and you’ll be right at least 75% of the time. What McCain isn’t admitting is that the lying rocketed up under Bush first.

McCain is an ally most of the time.
Why do so many HAers feel queasiness or hatred or disgust at folks who disagree with us in some issues?
McCain, Krauthammer, Will, Krystol, Rove, & Brooks are right at least half of the time, yet any mention of their names gets some of you vomiting.

tom on June 21, 2011 at 8:48 PM
McCain is an ally most of the time.
Why do so many HAers feel queasiness or hatred or disgust at folks who disagree with us in some issues?
McCain, Krauthammer, Will, Krystol, Rove, & Brooks are right at least half of the time, yet any mention of their names gets some of you vomiting.

itsnotaboutme on June 21, 2011 at 9:11 PM

If you have to ask that question, you need to dust off your copy of Conservative for Dummies.

McCain is an ally most of the time.
Why do so many HAers feel queasiness or hatred or disgust at folks who disagree with us in some issues?
McCain, Krauthammer, Will, Krystol, Rove, & Brooks are right at least half of the time, yet any mention of their names gets some of you vomiting.

itsnotaboutme on June 21, 2011 at 9:11 PM

Have you forgotten that McCain proudly sells himself as a maverick?

Maverick:
a. a lone dissenter, as an intellectual, an artist, or a politician, who takes an independent stand apart from his or her associates: a modern-dance maverick. Synonyms: nonconformist, individualist; free thinker; loner, lone wolf.
b. a person pursuing rebellious, even potentially disruptive, policies or ideas: You can’t muzzle a maverick. Synonyms: rebel, cowboy; loose cannon.

We should and do feel queasy any time McCain is to speak on an issue, because he is unreliable and unpredictable, as he admits.

That’s insane. This signals that our elites have decided to solve the illegal immigration issue by simply making all immigration legal. Get ready. They have not given up on Amnesty and they’re going to keep pushing till they get it.

Open immigration from muslim lands? Open immigration from South of the border with hordes of people who don’t come to the US with the intention of dropping their old identity and assimilating to a new one? It’s insane but this is where they’re going.

Also notice Tina uses the term “undocumented worker” instead of “illegal alien”- we’re being had here.

If you have to ask that question, you need to dust off your copy of Conservative for Dummies.

HornetSting on June 21, 2011 at 9:13 PM

If there was such a tome, I believe it would be called Conservatism for Dummies.
Thank you for providing an example of what I complained about, that is, reactionary antipathy to anyone who disagrees with you occasionally.

HornetSting on June 21, 2011 at 9:13 PM
If there was such a tome, I believe it would be called Conservatism for Dummies.
Thank you for providing an example of what I complained about, that is, reactionary antipathy to anyone who disagrees with you occasionally.

HornetSting on June 21, 2011 at 9:13 PM
If there was such a tome, I believe it would be called Conservatism for Dummies.
Thank you for providing an example of what I complained about, that is, reactionary antipathy to anyone who disagrees with you occasionally.

itsnotaboutme on June 21, 2011 at 9:54 PM
My. You know they have Midol in gelcaps now, right?

HornetSting on June 21, 2011 at 10:07 PM

Now THAT was reactionary antipathy.
Seriously, have you been asleep for the past few years? Under a rock. It’s the constant struggle between establishment hacks that CALL themselves republicans or RINOS and grass roots, conservative types that don’t subscribe to the beltway way of doing things..going along to get along, selling out your constituents. Selling out your soul along with any values you might have left to make sure the NYT and the Washington Post still loves you.
2008 was a PRIME example of this:
McCain-Feingold Campaign Finance
McCain-Kennedy Amnesty
and now we are dealing with McCain-Kerry on this Libya non-war..giving obama cover.

… many of whom have found themselves one-time rule-breakers who now live in a shadowland of uncertainty themselves.

Number one, to say they “found themselves one-time rule-breakers” is utterly naive, as if the illegals just woke up one day and found themselves, pushed by fate or perhaps magic, across the border. No, they knew exactly what they were doing when they deliberately, and with premeditation, put their first foot across the line and broke our laws.

Second, that they now live in a “shadowland of uncertainty”, they created that shadowland the day they decided to come into the country illegally.

To even imply that somehow we need to concern ourselves with their plight argues a lack of wit which I, for one, cannot countenance. It is an offense to my, ahem, “personhood”.

That is, the majority believes the goal of U.S. immigration policy should be only to keep out national security threats, criminals and those who come here to live off our welfare system. Beyond that, all immigrants should be welcome.

Tina, do you honestly interpret that to say the majority of Americans believe that anyone should be able to come here as long as they are not a security threat, a criminal or someone who wants to live off our welfare system? If that is the case, our country’s population would double within a 5-10 year period based on people from undeveloped countries who want to move here for a better life.

McCain is an ally most of the time.
Why do so many HAers feel queasiness or hatred or disgust at folks who disagree with us in some issues?
McCain, Krauthammer, Will, Krystol, Rove, & Brooks are right at least half of the time, yet any mention of their names gets some of you vomiting.

itsnotaboutme on June 21, 2011 at 9:11 PM

They don’t get me vomiting. They just remind me to go to the arsenal vault and clean my weapons.

In a new and more lenient policy, the head of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement has instructed the agency’s legal office to stop the deportation proceedings of foreign nationals who may now be eligible for a green card.

South Florida immigration attorneys and activists said the move is the first solid evidence of more tolerance by ICE toward some foreign nationals facing removal to their homelands.

Affected are possibly tens of thousands who are married or related to a U.S. citizen or a legal resident who has filed a petition for them. The immigrants who will benefit must also not have a criminal conviction.

In unveiling the change, ICE assistant secretary John Morton said the agency will soon drop deportation proceedings against those now eligible under the new guidelines.

“Where there is an underlying application or petition and ICE determines . . . that a non-detained individual appears eligible for relief from removal, (its attorneys) should promptly move to dismiss proceedings,’ Morton wrote in an Aug. 20 memo to the agency’s principal legal advisor and the head of enforcement and removal operations.

those trying to protect and even promote illegal immigraton are getting scared. Too bad McCain has lost so very many cred’s regarding this issue. Its like the little boy who finally decided to cry wolf. FF

No, from what I saw – he said “people who have crossed our border ILLEGALLY” …

The “undocumented” part of that phrase seems to be due to political correctness the part of HotAir reporters – who now seem to have bought into the leftist meme that it’s wrong to call Illegal Aliens – ILLEGAL Aliens.

You mean the McCain whose infamous 2007 “Comprehensive Immigration Bill” had a “Z Visa” amnesty feature that allowed a generous SINGLE BUSINESS DAY for DHS to accomplish health and background checks on each and every illegal alien who applied — with the clock starting to tick upon application?

In 2006 the same bill had a 90 calendar waiting period, after which the illegal alien would get AUTOMATIC permanent residency, right to leave and enter the country, green card, and a “pathway to citizenship” if the DHS didn’t have time to complete the checks.

I’m in Tucson and Sunday night the Catalinas were not even visible due to smoke from the Monument fire.

We have friends in Hereford who evacuated (still are last I heard).

This story had me so angry yesterday. The media adopting an attitude of pretending to not understand “some” when McCain stated some of these fires are started by illegals and instead, because he made the statement up in the White Mountains, pretend he was referring to that huge fire. Politico yesterday referred to “other smaller wildfires” and I blew up. The phrasing to make it seem McCain was the one hyping and politicizing when it’s the media and the Dems, and it belittled the actual horror of the situation.

And of course Raul Grijalva (he’s not mine, Gabby is my rep) had to be consulted to reliably denounce McCain. Grijalva’s allegiance as always not where it should be.

McCain has issues but on this one he is right and I was surprised and gratified he didn’t back down in the face of the malicious spin.

McCain’s remarks make a scapegoat of undocumented workers only if he made them up.

Undocumented workers? Like the landscaper and maid and field worker?

No.

You guys don’t understand. These particular corridors are traveled by criminals. Drug traffickers and human smugglers. They are enslaving people.

I am pretty lenient on the idea of fast-tracking workers who have established their families here but this other element is a whole ‘nother thing and nothing remotely like the romanticized scenario you’re painting by using those terms for what McCain is referring to.

(Reuters) – Two Arizona wildfires that have scorched a quarter-million acres combined and destroyed dozens of homes just north of the U.S.-Mexico border were probably started by Mexican smugglers, the Cochise County sheriff said on Tuesday.

…

Cochise Sheriff Dever told reporters the Monument Fire was “man-caused” and started in an area near the border fence that is closed to visitors and known to law enforcement for “high-intensity, drug- and human-trafficking.”

…

But Dever told Reuters, “I wouldn’t take issue with the senator at all. In fact, I would support absolutely what he is suggesting.”

The Monument fire has gutted at least 62 homes and a number of businesses, and an estimated 11,000 people were forced to flee at the peak of the fire threat in an area southeast of the town of Sierra Vista, Arizona. About 27,000 acres have burned in all.

McCain is an ally most of the time.
Why do so many HAers feel queasiness or hatred or disgust at folks who disagree with us in some issues?
…

itsnotaboutme on June 21, 2011 at 9:11 PM

I feel disgust at McCain, not people who are possibly uninformed on his perfidy (as in ‘Deliberate breach of faith; calculated violation of trust; treachery”).

See my post above about his changing of his 2006 90-day waiting period (as bad as that is — why have any cutoff before all checks are complete??) to the 2007 “Single Business Day” waiting period before automatic “legalization” of illegal aliens.

For comparison, would you suggest that you get an automatic passport in one day if State can’t get your background checked in that time?

McCain said in so many words, “Screw you, America — I’m not to do ANY criminal background checks or health checks — I’m going to make them ALL legal overnight.”

I don’t care much for McCain but I support what he said. Also, hey’re ILLEGAL ALIENS, not undocumented immigrants. They made a choice to enter the US illegally and we should treat them as they are – criminals.

McCain is an ally most of the time.
Why do so many HAers feel queasiness or hatred or disgust at folks who disagree with us in some issues?
…

itsnotaboutme on June 21, 2011 at 9:11 PM

The message I’m getting is that illegal immigrants are somehow more important than American citizens. They won’t deal with this issue because of the Hispanic vote and to make sure that supply and demand of menial labor doesn’t dictate higher wages thus lower profits.

When they do take measures to deal with this, they always manage to make it so that citizens have to jump through hoops to get things like drivers licenses. Also, a great excuse (like the “war on drugs”) for the police to violate our shaky Fourth Amendment rights when out in public.

With few exceptions I am more and more convinced that both parties are working against us, often in collusion, along with major corporations, Marxist organizations, and foreign governments. Strange bedfellows at times, but they manage to work things out so they all benefit.

Wow. Could you possibly cram any more PC crap into your post?
Undocumented workers? Are they even workers? I thought we were talking about people trekking across Arizona. They’re illegal aliens.
Personhood? You probably say “Ms.” too.
Found themselves to be rule-breakers?
First of all, they’re called laws, not rules. We don’t want them deported because they have punctuation issues. And really? They found themselves in this situation?
And oh no — the dreaded shadowland. You watch MSNBC too much.

The problem is up here on the north coast too. Half of LAKE ONTARIO is in Canada along with half of the St. Lawrence River. You should see the snowmobile tracks across the river on the two foot of ice and snow.

while still respecting the personhood of immigrants, many of whom have found themselves one-time rule-breakers who now live in a shadowland of uncertainty themselves
Is that kinda like calling garbage men sanitation engineers?…

A couple of pieces of extremist leftist garbage does not make a “firestorm that has erupted” nor does it amount to a “barrage of criticism.” It is no more than what it appears at first read. Some unemployed Chicano Studies type loser who bought himself a fax machine and now is an “expert” to any Journo-Tard that comes calling.

I understand that people want a better life for themselves and their children. We are all immigrants in this land, expect for American Indians, and they got here by crossing the Bering Straight. But there is a huge difference between immigrating here legally and sneaking in illegally, between assimilating into an existing culture, and insisting on replacing a country’s existing culture with that of the country you left.

I’m all for assisting anyone in becoming a legal citizen of the United States, if that is their wish. But, it must be done the right way, and they must accept responsibility for their illegal entry, show a willingness to learn our language, and embrace our American way of life, including respecting the American Flag.

A wide-open Southern Border is as big a threat to the sovereignty of the United States as anything that our enemies can throw at us right now. Mr. President, quit playing political games. The safety of America is at stake . SECURE THE BORDER NOW.

And Palin would give these types legal status. She said do on Bill O Reilly’s show, and Greta’s….

rightwingyahooo on June 21, 2011 at 8:15 PM

She said that some of them who had
been here for years and had jobs and families may be able
to work out a way to pay fines and get citizenship.

After all our government created the problem by not
taking care of this problem years ago. You can’t just
kick 12-20 million people out of the country. That is
pretty much undoable. I also think the employers who
hired these illegals should pay a fine.

I believe this thread is referring to the ner do well
type of illegal who contribute nothing to this country and
in fact contribute harm.

At any rate, quit blaming Palin for everything…it is
juvenile, unintelligent and just plain ignorant behavior.
We are all sick of it.

Haven’t had time to read the thread, but illegals start fires in TX all the time. It’s just a fact. The one I read of most recently was when a fleeing truckful of them ran off the road into a pasture and the catalytic converter set the grass on fire.

Right now, it takes almost nothing to start a fire. Shockingly though, in San Antonio at my house overnight we got 1.77″, our first rain in months. I almost passed out when I saw the rain gauge.

McCain is an ally most of the time.
Why do so many HAers feel queasiness or hatred or disgust at folks who disagree with us in some issues?
McCain, Krauthammer, Will, Krystol, Rove, & Brooks are right at least half of the time, yet any mention of their names gets some of you vomiting.

itsnotaboutme on June 21, 2011 at 9:11 PM

The rinos and moderates vote or are with us “most of the time” when the vote isn’t in doubt and their vote is largely meaningless. But when it’s important and the vote is close, that’s when these rinos and moderates suddenly feel their Democrat side come out and they vote against us.

In 2001, RickRicardoPerryPerico….signed the Texas version of the Federal DREAM act:

We must say to every Texas child learning in a Texas classroom, “we don’t care where you come from, but where you are going, and we are going to do everything we can to help you get there.”

“And that vision must include the children of undocumented workers.”

That’s why Texas took the national lead in allowing such deserving young minds to attend a Texas college at a resident rate. Those young minds are a part of a new generation of leaders, the doors of higher education must be open to them.

John Morton was unanimously confirmed as the Director of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) by the U.S. Senate on May 12, 2009. ICE is the principal investigative arm of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security and the second largest investigative agency in the federal government. Created in 2003, the agency has a budget of $5.7 billion dollars and more than 20,000 employees in offices in all 50 states and 48 foreign countries. The agency’s primary mission is to promote homeland security and public safety through the criminal and civil enforcement of federal laws governing border control, customs, trade and immigration.

Prior to his appointment by the President, Mr. Morton spent 15 years at the Department of Justice. At the Department, Mr. Morton served in several positions including Assistant United States Attorney, Counsel to the Deputy Attorney General and Acting Deputy Assistant Attorney General of the Criminal Division.

During his tenure at ICE, Mr. Morton has strengthened ICE’s investigative efforts, with a particular emphasis on border crimes, export controls, intellectual property enforcement and child exploitation. Mr. Morton has also sought to prioritize ICE’s immigration enforcement efforts around the removal of criminal offenders, recent border violators, and those who ignore orders of removal or obtain immigration status by fraud.

Mission

ICE’s primary mission is to promote homeland security and public safety through the criminal and civil enforcement of federal laws governing border control, customs, trade, and immigration. The agency has an annual budget of more than $5.7 billion dollars, primarily devoted to its two principal operating components – Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) and Enforcement and Removal Operations (ERO).

A majority of the comments are incredible. Basically everyone thinks he should stay here because he has been such an invaluable part of our society, even though he has continued to live here illegally. “Undocumented ” they call it. What’s worse is this guy is selling a sob story to cover the fact that he is a criminal and these people are eating it up!

A stupid statement: practically all nations on the planet displaced some other group and before they built their country. Any Mexicans offering to deed over their lands to the Indian tribes they displaced? Besides, that was Spain landing at St, Augustine, not Mexico, and they are not claiming US Territory because of it.

They fed this country. Check stats on migrants.
They built this country. Check laborer jobs over the years.

Nonsense, most of even the labor that built the farmlands, the towns and cities were of mostly white European stock, as were the architects, engineers and businessmen who made it all possible. As for the PAID migrant workers & migrant labor, no one put a gun to their heads to work here. And I think Mexicans should check their hypocrisy by examining their own laws with regard to border control and illegal immigrants.http://michellemalkin.com/2010/04/28/police-state-how-mexico-treats-illegal-aliens/

Texas was stolen from Mexico in an Imperialistic War.

I think the US should consider given much or all of it to Mexico just a soon as Mexico considers handing over Mexico City to the Aztec descendents.

The US has kept the cost of tractors and other capital goods high to keep Central and South America poor.
Now we are trying to use them for our dirty work when we need them and discard them afterward.

Not to keep anyone poor (the US is generous to a fault IMO with foreign aid), but maybe too many Mexicans just cannot stand the US looking after their own first like Mexicans do.

We buy the drugs and we hire illegals.

Yep, and the those who support the drug trade & illegal immigration should pay a hard price. But this hardly means we owe the drug runners and the illegals anything.

She said that some of them who had
been here for years and had jobs and families may be able
to work out a way to pay fines and get citizenship.

A VERY bad policy. That is a REWARD for illegal behavior and will only encourage others to illegally cross the border. Any policy that awards the ILL-GOTTEN GOODS (residency, in this case) to the criminal, even with a fine, is absurd. Why don’t you try this policy with your own neighborhood’s jewel thieves first?

Attrition through enforcement is the most popular plan for three very good reasons – it is humane, cheap, and it WORKS!Watch an illegal alien tell you why.

After all our government created the problem by not
taking care of this problem years ago.

Agreed. That’s why we must STOP IT.

You can’t just
kick 12-20 million people out of the country. That is
pretty much undoable.

No rational person who is anti-ILLEGAL immigration is pushing this policy; however, many PRO-ILLEGAL immigration proponents keep bringing it up as a straw man, though. An obvious false dichotomy: we can’t (or don’t want to) deport 12,000,000 illegal aliens, THEREFORE we must make them citizens.

Check out this poll offering all three choices — mass deportation, amnesty, and attrition through enforcement. Anyone who argues for amnesty, while not mentioning attrition, is disingenuous or uninformed.

I also think the employers who
hired these illegals should pay a fine.

BINGO!! And lose their business license, as in AZ.

I believe this thread is referring to the ner do well type of illegal who contribute nothing to this country and in fact contribute harm.

All illegals are “ne’er do well’s”. They choose to disobey our laws and cut in line in front of those immigrants who respect our laws.

At any rate, quit blaming Palin for everything…it is
juvenile, unintelligent and just plain ignorant behavior.
We are all sick of it.