Just because you can explain away the abuse does not mean it isn't abuse.

I've been beating myself up for a long time. How can I blame my parents for the shitty way they treated me. My mom made all of her choices because she is schizophrenic and wont seek treatment because she thinks it is literal demons and that "schizophrenia" is the atheist term for possession. My dad allowed her to do whatever because almost 30 years ago he raped an 8 year old and got away with it but the guilt has had him a walking depression zombie.

I spent years trying to figure out how to help them but they dont want to be helped. They like living in their misery.

In my mother's twisted reality I was an attention seeker. Bad grades in school, depression, lost virginity, not believing in her god, etc were all done because I apparently wanted her to look at me. One time I made some hamburger patties and hers was undercooked slightly and instead of any reasonable response she decided to go into a blind range because I tried to kill her and she threw me down the stairs.
When I told dad he didn't believe me. He was always convinced that me and my older sister were making up lies to get him to leave her.

The one that hurts me the most to this day is when we found out about the mold in the basement. Ot was in the room directly below mine and I am slightly allergic to it. Over a course of three years my lungs started closing up and dieing. I would have asthma attacks if I breathed to much air at once. My parents refused to take me to the doctor. They alternated saying that I was smoking or that I was faking. "This cant be real because it doesn't hurt me" I went to the doctor at the college who was connected to my highschool and asked if he could help me. He ended up sending me to the ER because my peak flow was 75 and he wasnt sure how I was standing. Almost 3 years later I can breathe but half of my right lung is just dead. I can feel the air stop moving when it hits that spot.

I spent so long thinking that my parents mental issues made what they did okay and any resentment I had was ridiculous. I used the logic that we dont charge mentally retarded people with murder, why would I charge a schizophrenic person with narcissism? I'm still not sure how to cope with this but I'm getting closer. It's just recently that I've accepted that abuse is abuse no matter what the root cause is.

My mother also had schizophrenia, and my father never let us know why he did not want us to have friends, visit, date, and actively manipulate just us staying together. They were the adults, and they should have been able to work past their demons for the good of their children.

I agree. It is the inherent responsibility of all parents to work through their s*** for the better of their children. That is first and foremost, and while mental illness can be complicated to address-and can inhibit a parent's ability to see what ought to be done-there is no excuse to leave it completely untreated, to the point that it warps one's ability to parent properly.

In addition, you can accept the toxicity of the illness itself, without having to make a judgment on the person, in this case your mom. At the end of the day, if you are being mistreated and abused, it doesn't really matter why. It's wrong, whatever the reason, and you're best served by developing healthy boundaries, learning productive coping mechanisms, and removing yourself from the situation as soon as you can.

Schizophrenia actually does not make people violent. I have it. We're less likely to be violent than "normal" people and more likely to be victims of violence. There's real science backing that up.

That violence? That was your mom. That's her personality, not her schizophrenia. And it's really not surprising that a woman who would marry a pedophile is a crappy human.

I don't know where you live that people with this illness are allowed to murder but that sounds terrifying. I'd absolutely be locked up for killing people. Mental illness is not and should not be an excuse to abuse others. If one truly can't stop themselves, that person needs to be locked away somewhere.

Happens all the time, sadly. My grandma is still married to my grandpa despite him regularly raping all the daughters. He fucked up all his kids' lives. The two who turned out the most stable are my uncle and my mom. Uncle is an alcoholic on his fourth marriage and my mom, while she has really improved over the last couple years, is just incredibly horribly damaged and has been really abusive herself.

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Grandma never left because he abused her too and she was too scared to leave. I don't judge her. I don't know if I would do any better under the same circumstances. She was a victim as well. But she did fail in her duty to protect her children and the consequences of that will affect generations. I wish she had been stronger and braver. My mom wouldn't have had so much less unaddressed trauma and thus my life would have been a lot easier.

abused her too and she was too scared to leave. I don't judge her. I don't know if I would do any better under the same circumstances. She was a victim as well. But she did fail in her duty to protect her children and the consequences of that will affect generations. I wish she had been stronger and braver.

This is my family too. It's a horrible situation for any mother to be in. My father was not sexually abusive towards his children, it's literally the only thing he didn't abuse us with though. My mum stayed because he threatened to kill us kids and her if she ever left. So so much harm was caused because of this decision to stay instead of go.

I'm currently working through a situation where my mother in law is abusing my grandmother in law. The family is rug sweeping her behaviour. I am not. I will not stop doing everything in my power to protect the vulnerable from abuse. Even if that means severing family ties. I would rather have no relationship than enable abuse to continue.

I'm sorry your family was abusive. It sounds like you might be one of the one's that break the cycle though. Keep being strong and doing what is right no matter the cost.

The cycle of abuse is one of the hardest cycles to break, in my opinion. I'm proud of you for recognizing your grandmother was a victim too, but it's also good to recognize that she did fail. Even if it was from fear.

She believed that it was a lie my grandmother came up with to get custody back. Trust me there's a huge set of fucky that is my family. Apparently my dad passed a lie detector test, with the help of blood pressure meds, and thus never got charged. But with how my dads face challenges when her name is mentioned and how he just acts in general I have accepted that it might actually have happened. It sucks because growing up dad was the reasonable person who made life not miserable. He was my best friend. Now it's just weird to talk to him

Gosh, I can't even imagine how difficult it must be to learn someone you felt so close to and trusted did something like that.

I eventually found out my dad raped his little sister and apparently shook a baby at one point, but I never spoke to him anyway. I can't even fathom how I'd have felt if we were close. I'm so, so sorry.

So she just ignores that she either slept with a black man or someone who is partially black or is partially black herself. Just when you think the crazy has hit bottom, it says “hold my beer” and starts digging.

I'm not sure where you're from, but in the US, we actually do hold mentally disabled people accountable for murder. We do have the verdict of not guilty by reason of insanity, but that's very seldom used and when it is, it doesn't mean the person gets off scot free. What it does is hold the person in a psych facility until they're deemed competent enough to be held accountable. Then, depending on the actual sentence, they potentially end up in prison to finish out the sentence. Sometimes the psych ward is the duration of their sentence, but either way we don't just return them to wreak more havoc in society. They're given help and held accountable.

Secondly, narcissism is a disorder, just like schizophrenia. She could potentially have both. Not all schizophrenic people are narcissistic or mean or anything like what you described. You should absolutely hold her accountable for her behavior regardless of her schizophrenia.

It's also very very difficult to try and go for an insanity plea, as trying to prove insanity is extremely difficult in our current system. Especially if the person going for that plea is trying to claim temporary insanity at the time the crime was committed. It's a gambit that is almost never successful, and even if it is, its like you said. That person still gets to spend the rest of their life in a mental facility.

It doesn't make any of it okay. When I was a kid I weilded words like a weapon and I had a rough childhood. I said some pretty hurtful things to people because I was lashing out in pain. I didn't know any better, but that didn't make it right. I still feel bad about that stuff. I'm still struggling with mental issues brought on by my rough childhood, but I try not to lash out like than anymore unless I absolutely have to.

This was me. Hot 26/2 yoga helped me with this soooooo much. And meditation. And learning to breathe. I stopped hating everything, including myself (slowly over time). I still have the ability to access that side of myself if the situation warrants it, but often I choose strategies better suited to my present moment more and more. I’m working on my self compassion and learning to forgive myself for what did under those past circumstances. And things are headed in the right direction.

My horrific childhood was a result of my parents mental health issues. Ok, so in my mum’s case it was NPD, but still, this was the cause of the problem. I recognise and acknowledge this because since I have, the anger I felt about my mistreatment has gone and I’ve realised how much of a negative effect this anger was having on me. It didn’t effect them, but every day was difficult for me because of the anger and frustration and the negative way it caused me to behave. This doesn’t make the abuse, or any abuse, ok. It doesn’t make the impact of it magically disappear. But it does make me feel less like a victim and less burdened by the experience. They didn’t wake up one morning and decide “today’s the day we’re gonna fuck up our kid”, they were mentally unwell for a variety of reasons and I was caught in the firing line. It doesn’t make it ok, but it makes it not my fault. I wasn’t inherently unlovable, I’m not a bad person, I was just dealt a shitty hand when it comes to parents!

That's one thing that has always driven me nuts: The "Oh, we can't do anything because they have mental issues" junk. My teenager has a Down's Syndrome kid in her class and the school lets him watch porn in class! I know it's not RBN-related, but it ties in perfectly with your post and the whole "mental issues are excuses" line you were forced into putting your health in danger over. People always make the misconception that disabilities you can't physically see on their body don't exist so they can't influence behavior. Thing is, they do exist and they put people in danger more often than not. Narcissims is a mental disorder, one that is often never diagnosed as those who suffer from it are always pulling tricks and schemes to get around it because "Nothing is never wrong with them; there is always something wrong with someone else." This is their slogan and it's ridiculous how many people who see these situations from the outside are so gullible to believe it or worse, they know what's going on but do nothing to help the victims until someone gets so severely hurt they end up in the hospital or the morgue.

My mother abused me significantly as a child and young adult. When I got away, I got into a marriage that I treated poorly; we both made mistakes, but mine were of emotional abuse and manipulation. I didn't know it at the time, but I was doing things to control my (now ex-) husband, which is NOT how you treat someone you love. That said, he could have spoken up or gone with me to counseling, and he had his faults, too, but I do take ownership of the fact I abused him (because I don't get to decide that I didn't).

THAT SAID, I decided to change. I decided to get help. I decided to abstain from personal relationships until I was actually healthy and had dealt with my issues. Your parents could have chosen that route, too, and so could mine, so they do not get a free pass for abusing you.

You even say, "She chose not to get treatment..." Your mother _actively_ chose not to get help. I'm just sayin...That's abuse in and of itself.

My mother is a hoarder, and my father has narcissistic tendencies. I was a kid with untreated ADHD who was expected to compensate for my mother's shortcomings. Yeah, that didn't go well at all. I left the farm with a whole lot of depression and anxiety. My sibs and I all left the farm with some form of mental illness.

I can understand why my mother is the way she is, and I can understand why my father is the way he is, but my brother and I agree that neither one can be excused for what they did to us. They chose to pretend that everything was all someone else's fault, and us kids got shit on because of it. To this day they do not take responsibility, and I don't think they ever will.

The one thing I can be thankful for is my brother taking responsibility for the abuse he inflicted on me at my Dad's orders. He knew then that he could have refused, and he chose to do it anyway, and he admits that it's a choice he'll regret to the end of his days. I have forgiven him for what he did because I understand the types of stresses he was under, and I've seen him change for the better over the decades since.

I in turn have taken responsibility for the abuse I inflicted on my siblings even though I knew better at the time, and I'll continue to work on being a better person than what my parents taught me to be.

Mental illness is not a blanket excuse for abusing someone who deserves your love, care, and attention. But you said it--they don't want help. They don't want to change because it's easier for them that way.

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OMG with the mold, you could have died!!!! I was exposed to black mold a few years ago (damp apartment and super sh*tty landlords that refused to believe me about the mold). Ended up in the hospital because I couldn't breathe. Also my tongue was JET FREAKING BLACK and I was coughing up some icky black bits, it was horrible. I'm so sorry you had to go through that as well, what a nightmare.

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At least you got to get it treated by a competent doctor. Mine just kept throwing antibiotics at me (basically throwing petrol on a fire with mold poisoning), and now I'm allergic to nearly every antibiotic in existence. I CAN, however, detect black mold in someone's house in under 2 minutes.

Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing and saying this. I'm new to reddit, but this is something I've been struggling with for years, and it's such a relief to know I'm not the only one who's struggled with this. I know that sounds like such a weird thing to say given how terrible the abuse you've talked about is, and I really am so sorry you and your family went through that, but it really is such a relief.

Explaining abuse away is a part of what our narcissistic parents do to condition us, to make us dependent on and worship them, to control us, and it's so incredibly difficult to accept that not only were we abused, but also that the abuse wasn't and never will be justified. Accepting that abuse is abuse regardless of the reasoning behind it is one of the hardest steps in recovery from an abusive childhood.

I think a good portion of the people here have parents with mental illnesses. And you're right... those illnesses aren't excuses. What they've done is abuse, plain and simple.

Just like our BPD doesn't make it okay for us to treat people that way, it doesn't make it okay for your mother to treat you that way. Mental illnesses aren't possession and she is clearly using that as an excuse to allow herself to keep acting the way she's acting.

Feck her. Cut her out of your life as soon as you possibly can. Your dad too, as I'm shocked he's even in your lives after what he's done. Feeling guilty or not, you don't need to be around that toxic behavior. Especially because he continues to allow your mom to do what she wants and believes her over you.

OP, think of it this way - given how you grow up, would you raise your own children that way? Or treat your pets that way?

No. Because you make a conscious choice not to. You can't choose what happened to you. You can't choose that the shitty lottery gives you schizophrenia or any other debilitating mental illnesses. But you can choose to seek treatment. You can choose to take control.

I have to remind myself, every time I almost break into my old habits, of yelling to get my way, that it's not me - it's my father's shadow. I take a deep breath, and try a different approach. I feel myself slipping, so I take control.

Just because you're in pain doesn't mean you have to inflict pain on others.

This is awful. I'm sorry you had to go through that. I totally get it though. My Edad is undiagnosed OCD and autism and my Nmom has major control and self-esteem issues. I understand why they are the way they are and that they can't fully help it. But that doesn't mean it's okay for my mom to hurt me and my dad to just sit there and watch and not say anything. Abuse is improper treatment of a person, no matter who is doing it.

I spent so long thinking that my parents mental issues made what they did okay and any resentment I had was ridiculous.

This is what hurt me for so long. My father is definitely a narcissist, and looking at family patterns, I'm fairly certain my stepmother is autistic. My dad always has someone to feel superior to, and my mom can't figure out why she's always upset. Growing up, they always took their emotions out on me, because I was supposed to be responsible, but then I'd be punished for trying to actively take responsibility.

Yet, telling a court that one parent is mentally ill, all they have to do is take medication and go to a psychologist and they're suddenly "better" and everyone treats them like they're suddenly normal.

As far as black mold goes, my parents keep mentioning it being in my house but literally I can't find anything but some mildew in the bathroom that I spray with Tilex. I've had my ventilation system cleaned and everything... I have no idea what this mold they're worried about is. But then, my parents are Nparents so there always has to be something wrong with me and what I am doing.

Knowing that my mother was the victim of childhood incest and a religious tradition that marginalized and demonized women did help me understand that her actions were in no way motivated by anything I did or did not do. But it still hurt.

You can be schizophrenic and an asshole. You can be mentally handicapped and an asshole. A disorder or a disability doesn't automatically make you a saint.

Also, narcissistic personality disorder itself is described as a mental disorder that people 'suffer from'. But it doesn't mean that they lost all sense of agency (as in 'free will', philosophical and religiously speaking) and have no responsibility for the harm they cause. People who have no sense of agency should be put in a protected mental hospital to protect people from them and vice versa.

I think the really important leap you haven't made is this: WE DON'T ALLOW MENTALLY RETARDED, or MENTALLY ILL PEOPLE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR CHILDREN.

We don't allow them to be foster parents (unless they have shown, over and over, consistently, that they can manage). We don't allow them to be parents--especially if they are completely incapable of taking care of a helpless child. If an out of control, raging schizophrenic gave birth in a hospital, the hospital would not allow that baby to go home with her.

Your parents have shown, however you want to interpret it, objectively, that they are not only incapable of taking care of you, their behavior is actively harming you.

You are stumbling over the right words because part of their craziness is to re-define reality. "You're lying," "You MADE me angry," "You're faking." "This isn't abuse, because we can't help ourselves."

But here's the thing: you don't need to call it "abuse," and you don't need to "blame" them. You can simply say: THEY ARE HARMING YOU, terribly. And no matter what the cause, it is not acceptable for adults to harm children.

If you still live with them, please call CPS. CPS's job is to make sure children have responsible adults taking care of them. You don't.

Luckily I dont live with them any longer. Long story short I got pregnant at 17 and didn't tell them until I was about 5 months along and they took that as an insult and left the state. Because I was less then 6 months from my 18th birthday and was abandoned I was considered emancipated and moved in with a friend.

Sometimes it is weird having people talk about how weird it was because I always thought it was normal. As I've gotten older I've learned that there were things that was abuse that I was always taught was just the way.

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