It's a rough guide to allow the clinch knot to hold properly. Seriously.

What makes the clinch knot able to hold well on a particular size of hook wire is the ability for the wraps to pinch (clinch) the "legs" that come up on either side of the hook eye, tight to the eye. Too wide of an angle, and the knot slips. It doesn't allow the tag to be pinched between the coils and the "legs" tightly enough to hold properly.

This is where the improved clinch knot is useful. It allows mismatched tippet size, to hook wire diameter better than a regular clinch knot.

Two problems with this - the improved clinch knot is a weaker knot than the regular clinch knot, and the improved clinch knot uses up more tippet when tied. The design of the improved clinch knot doesn't allow the knot to be "slid" down the tippet to the very end of the tag (more wasted tippet). Plus, it's slightly more difficult to tie, with the one extra step.

If you've read this far, you've just been "pcrayed".

Here's a neat little article on the perfect clinch knot by someone that knows his stuff...

Heritage-Angler wrote:We've all walked a slightly different path in our FF journey, and there is no one single authority on all things FF.

Very true. I've had very little guidance in mine, figuring things out on my own, and perhaps this lends to the sense of hostility I'm unintentionally giving off...

Anyway, tippet rings. I can't imagine why you'd want a piece of metal on your leader unless it's shot. Don't they sink? This seems like just one more thing to fiddle with... and now you have two knots to tie, not just one. Why not just use a surgeon's knot to attach tippet to leader?

Kabutt, your comments about forum communication are accurate, in that tones can never really be conveyed well in writing, especially when folks are cranking out responses in between work emails and such. However, I will also add that this forum is a bit unique in that many of the members have met and fished together. Putting a face to name, observing forum members interact with others is very valuable when determining their creditibility, as well as their mannerisms on the forum.

My point? When you have time, try to join one of the outings. I know it's not everyone's thing and sometimes folks can only find time to fish and not socialize, but if you get a chance I can tell you it was fun. And I think even HA learned something at the last one, so these aren't just for the newbies.

All of the above said, I've only met HA once, but my brother has fished with him for years. Damn near killed him actually, but that didn't involve a rod. Still, HA was brave enough to mountain bike with my brother on another occasion, so he wins some points for bravery at least.

Tippet Rings: These rings are so tiny, the manufacturer actually draws a large arrow with a sharpie, to indicate where the rings are located in their package. Honestly, I doubt the titanium rings weigh much more than a bloodknot knot of 1x tippet.

To the OP, leaders are available with the tippet ring already connected. While I'm certainly no expert, my brother continues to fish them with excellent results. And he's been fishing a lot longer than mountain biking... There can be tradeoffs with any equipment, but he hasn't found these to be lacking in poerformance.

Posted on: 2012/8/16 9:27

Edited by joseywales on 2012/8/16 9:53:48

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Honey, when I die, sell my fly gear for what it's worth and NOT what I told you I paid for it.

+1 ^ re: joining the outings. Speaking of 'outing', one can clearly see the benefit of lifelong partnerships (like Heretic Angler's and the Silver Fox) when it comes to sharing plenty of tested knowledge and good natured ribbing. As for knots, how about the Davey knot for newbs? Simple yet elegant.

Posted on: 2012/8/16 10:07

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"The river is my saviour and my sin..." - the tallest man in the world

Here are a couple reasons to use tippet rings(reasons I use them).1. I find it much easier to tie two trilene knots over one blood knot/uni knot/surgeons knot. added on top of this, the trilene is stronger than the surgeons knot, which of the three listed is the fastest and easiest.2. A tippet ring allows me to do a 3x knotless leader cut down to where it is probably 0-1x(mono) directly to 5x/4x tippet(flouro). I am not sure if the myth of "mono to flouro connections should be avoided" is true, but tippet rings negates it. Second, I cant do 0x to 5x via a blood knot, or a double uni knot, and i dont think a triple surgeons knot would hold either. 3. I love the 3 points of connections I have in my leader. I dont view bits of metal in my leader as a bad thing at all. I have the knotless leader to tippet ring A, then 4'+ of tippet to tippet ring B, then 6-12" of tippet to fly A. First, these metal connections happen at points in your setup where other things should be placed--indicator(if needed) and shot(always needed). As unfortunate as it is, indicators slide sometimes, and shot always slides on 5x flouro. Tippet ring B acts as a stopper for the split shot, so it doesnt slide down to the nose of my point fly. This is cool, but the best part is the flexibility and speed at which I can adapt my leader to the situation at hand. The indicator stays in the same position on my leader, but I can adapt the length of level tippet to to be tailored to the approprate length. Same goes for the distance from my point fly to my shot. Obviously you go through the 8-12" of tippet in a day of fishing, so its pretty simple to tie on another foot long piece of tippet to my second tippet ring.

I find tippet rings really simplify the leader system and make it as flexible and effective as i need it to be when i am on the stream. Fishing 5' of level tippet can be amazing for nymphing. Oh and to the OP asking about knots and tippet rings etc. go for the trilene knot. I know everyone loves the clinch knot, and its brother the improved, they just arent that strong. I still tie these knots, but the trilene trumps them all and is only a step more. It has a 95-100% breaking strength. I think the improved clinch is around 60-70%

Yeah, everybody's different. And many of us enjoy fly fishing for completely different reasons. There's sometihng elegant to me about building my own leader with surgeon's knots - a ring of metal being involved in there, however miniscule, ruins this elegance. I appreciate their usefulness, but still don't like 'em. Furthermore, the challenges one person may overcome by using them may not be challenges for others. My flies are weighted - I rarely use shot. I always use the sticky foam roll-on indicators that everybody hates too... I can usually snip off a tippet section, re-attach fresh tippet via surgeon's knot, and even tie on another fly with an improved clinch in less than 60 seconds. Over the years I've gotten very good at doing this and have overcome the drawbacks regarding speed and ease of tweaking my setup. Now, when you're talking about the IC vs Trilene in knot strength, I'm all ears. If the Trilene is indeed 30% stronger than the IC, I'll have to look into changing my ways a bit.

I've read many of HA's posts and from them I gather that he's a well-accomplished and knowledgeable fly fisherman. I read the "outing" threads and have considered participating, but have found in the past that I am a poor teacher and explainer and my somewhat unconventional tactics would only confuse those I was trying to help. Maybe one of these days. I did have the occasion to float the Lehigh with forum member beeber this past weekend and I think we enjoyed each other's company. Although, we were floating down a river in spearate crafts fishing - not necessarily getting to know one another. Also challenging when relating to other fly fishermen is that, at 33, I'm just a "kid" to most of y'all...

Anyway, I do appreciate the friendly discourse, and again apologize if I woke up a bit grumpy - my first post this AM reflected that!

I've read many of HA's posts and from them I gather that he's a well-accomplished and knowledgeable fly fisherman.

Huh?????

Quote:

I read the "outing" threads and have considered participating, but have found in the past that I am a poor teacher and explainer and my somewhat unconventional tactics would only confuse those I was trying to help.

Most of us a confused already so I don't think you'll do much harm. On a serious note, if you live in the region, and don't want to teach any of us, just show up for the fishing and good comradery. You'll have a good time even if you don't catch any fish

Posted on: 2012/8/16 10:53

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There are no evil thoughts except one, the refusal to think

Strangely, when board members get together, we rarely discuss politics, economics, or any of that crap that goes on in the OT board.

Part of it is that though we disagree politically, we actually do like each other, and everyone involved prefers not to ruin it by arguing. Heck, I think Stagger could even get along with Jack in person.