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Both of those kites are popular and have many dedicated fans and owners, but they don't suit everyone.

Amen brother!

One thing that IS for certain is that there is no universal best kite for all whether its an SUL, STD, Vent, Light, or any combination of these.

Its kind of like cars - most folks check out the specs, read some reviews, test drive it, and then there is likely something specific (manufacturer reputation, color, "feel", cup holders, seats, whatever) that makes you go with one specific model over the others.

Best advice with kites is to just keep trying them until you find one that suits you; there seem to be few shortcuts in finding your favorite kite.

If you mean literally flying in zero wind, good luck. 1000 answers...all not quite ideal. Flying in zero wind is a compromising situation regardless of the stunt kite of choice. Here, you will need to learn how to make it fun by practicing alot in these conditions. You will NEVER find a true SUL stunt kite than is as fun to pump and trick as it's standard buddy is to fly and trick in wind. This kite would need to stretch the laws of physics.

If you mean flying in some wind...anything where smoke from a cigarette moves away from you in a predictable direction...loads of UL's will fly well. This is much more pilot dependent than kite dependent, given a reasonably good SUL/UL kite.Be careful: Don't let yourself be fooled into thinking that a particular/special SUL will give you a significant number of additional days on the field flying. IT WON'T. Practice with any decent SUL will get you what you want. If it is the compliment to your standard, even better.

obi

(And with regard to the Fearless SUL video: ENOUGH is really ENOUGH. Anyone who knows a little of what they are talking about will agree that the comete needs wind, or pretty significant backward movement, and often a bit of both. Those pilots are hardly moving while doing a pretty aggressive comete. There is nothing to see there, other than a nice pairs comete to the ground. Clearly this is some wind flying. Doing a single direction comete to the ground with some wind on an SUL/UL is NOT by any stretch of the imagination unusual.

Wake up and smell the coffee. The only unusual thing about the Fearless is how it gives away tricks like the insane, insane L/R, and other lazy based stuff. The low and high range of these kites is not significant breakthrough in stunt kite design regardless of the glee club's claims.)

Logged

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." L daVinci

Wake up and smell the coffee. The only unusual thing about the Fearless is how it gives away tricks like the insane, insane L/R, and other lazy based stuff. The low and high range of these kites is not significant breakthrough in stunt kite design regardless of the glee club's claims.)

And you know this how...?

When did anybody in the Fearless community claim that it was a break through in wind range? One of the features of the Fearless is its wide wind range.

When fans of any kite, answer that their chosen model is the best choice no matter the conditions, that is short sighted to say the least. Fearless owners have made this mistake, but so have Talon, Cosmic TC, and even Transfer XTS, owners.

Why is it that some advanced fliers get bent so out of shape, when a developing flier makes an enthusiastic statement about a kite, that often times is over board? Advanced fliers, always say that it is more about skills, then it is the kite. I agree with that statement. Advanced fliers also have been quick to point out that it isn't a kite that can't do a trick, but the flier.

One would think that the advanced fliers could care less, what a developing flier has to say about a kite. For whatever reason some advanced fliers feel the need to show that a kite really isn't as great as developing fliers think it is.

I really don't understand regarding the above quote. I never said F SUL don't need wind to fly. Where did you get the idea ? It needs wind to fly a kite. If there is no wind, people have to walk backward to create wind. The purpose of showing the Fearless SUL doing comete because it is a complex move. I thought it might show the trickability aspect of the kite. You might see the particular clip thousands of times but my kite friend Serge and others might not see it before.

Do u own a Fearless yourself ? Have you fly one before ? Why so many -ve hot air regarding the FXXXXXXX Kite ? I own a CXXXXX TC vented myself and I don't like it at all. I never bad mouth it in a public forum.

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The only unusual thing about the Fearless is how it gives away tricks like the insane, insane L/R, and other lazy based stuff.

Yes, finally you got this right. I learnt my Flapjack/Multi-Lazy in less than 15 minutes, insane in my first try and Half Axel in 2 days. Is this bad ? Every well designed high end kites in the world are designed to give away tricks and this is the reason that I bought my FXXXXXXX and you bought yours. This is the only reason we pay big $$$ on the kite. To make life easier in the field. It also make me look good too.

When did anybody in the Fearless community claim that it was a break through in wind range?

Point one: when the hell did the Fearless community spring into life ? You'll be getting like the Rev folks at this rate and that's no way to go through life Point two: probably somewhere in here. We won't be going back there so let us all move on in an orderly fashion.

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One of the features of the Fearless is its wide wind range.

True dat.

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Why is it that some advanced fliers get bent so out of shape, when a developing flier makes an enthusiastic statement about a kite, that often times is over board?

I can't speak for them but for me any form of irrational exuberance gets me all -> A smattering of realism in amongst the enthusiasm is a much more palatable mixture.

How many kites can we recall being introduced as "a Nirvana killer" or the mythical Kite That Saved The World™ ? How many actually were ?

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Every well designed high end kites in the world are designed to give away tricks

This is not the case. Most kites need a significant input from the flyer, otherwise we'd be called "spectators" instead. A kite that literally rather than figuratively gives away tricks would be of no interest to me and, I suspect, quite a lot of other people who wish to enjoy their flying skills not their ability to buy the right kite.

And by the by.... most people will struggle to feel less than 3mph and the chances of all 3 of those mph coming from the same direction are pretty slim when it gets that calm. And, no, your windspeed meter probably isn't accurate at those sorts of numbers unless it's a hot wire anemometer or something even more exotic.

You can Comète in no wind but you'll lose a lot of altitude and/or ground as you frantically trot backwards.

Serge is looking for advice, seems like he has gotten alot so far. I think it really comes down to what his specific requirements are in comparing tradeoffs between trickability versus easy flying in no wind.

Based on his initial question of asking specifically about the Fearless or Nirvana, I am pretty sure that he wants all the current tricks out of his SUL and is hopefully aware that flying any of these is zero wind or even 1mph takes some skill that needs to be developed.

If you want a kite that has been built to do all the tricks in little wind, go with Fearless, Nirvana, Cosmic, or DS UL (I've never flown the last 2). Then, join the fan club for whatever kite you bought!