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Topic : 06/13 Teacher Sex Scandal, Part 2

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Created on : Friday, October 26, 2007, 03:02:37 pm

Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Air Date: 11/02/07) Dr. Phil continues his look at a teacher sex scandal that has a school and families divided in a small town in Texas. High school teacher Joelle Ogletree faces accusations of sexual misconduct with some of her male students. Joelle claims she's completely innocent but reluctantly agrees to face Matt, one of her accusers, in person. When Dr. Phil drills down into the details of the case, it's her word against his. Matt maintains that when Joelle was his high school French teacher, she came on to him. He says that as a student he received sexually explicit notes from her, but that the notes were written in code. See the encrypted messages and judge for yourself: Are they provocative or harmless? Then hear how Joelle and Matt interpret them. Plus, Matt agreed to take a polygraph test and have the results reviewed by an independent examiner. Find out what the test reveals and how Matt reacts when he hears them read aloud, as he sits face to face with Joelle. Hear both sides of this gripping sex scandal from the accuser and the accused, and judge for yourself if justice has been served. Share your thoughts, join the discussion.

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Very concerned

Although this second lie detector test showed deception, I tend to believe the former student, Matt. In all my years in high school, I never once attended a sleep over at a teacher's home. I feel it is totally inappropriate for a young female teacher to invite teenage male students to her home to sleep over. That is asking for trouble and shows very poor judgement on her part. Also, in all my years going through high school, I never received coded private notes from a teacher. The fact they were coded, shows she was wanting to keep the notes private and makes you think she's hiding something. I feel that was inappropriate activity for a school teacher. It leads me to believe she's guilty of something. Let's hope they don't come to regret letting this lady return to the classroom.

Tough decision....

I'm not sure who to believe....I tend to side more with the teacher, especially after 2 of the 3 boys failed their polygraph tests, and the 3rd one recanted his testimony. I don't believe (except maybe in their fantasy world) that Joelle was intimate with them.

That being said, I don't think Joelle is 100% innocent....those notes were completely inappropriate, and even if they weren't acted upon (which I firmly believe, they weren't acted on) she as a teacher, shouldn't be sending notes to her students.

I find it interesting that Matt's last line of "I'm telling the truth" is to bring Joelle's marriage into this. My question there is:

A. When did Joelle and her husband get married

B. How old was Joelle, how old was Doug when they married

If they married AFTER she'd graduated from college and maybe they were reunited at the school both as teachers, then what's the fuss all about?

I would never want to be a teacher in today's society....All a kid has to do (and trust me there are some very mean, vindictative kids out there) is hint that something happened, and a teacher's career and reputation are OVER! Even if proved innocent, forget about teaching again.

polygraph

Just curious: Wouldn't a topic that has been gone over and over during several years, (A) make a presumed victum de-senthisized to it, and (B) make an asumed witness react to the questions in a way that would indicate deception on a polygraph? He passed the polygraph, Phil stated, during the initial investigation. She, Phil remarked, seemed unconcerned or detached with the prospect of being able to face her accuser.

11/02 Teacher Sex Scandal, Pt. 2

I am concerned about this trend in America. It seems that more and more teachers are being accused of sexual abuse. If I were a young person trying to decide a profession, I think I would steer clear of teaching. However, if, infact this abuse did happen, she should have her license taken away. From what I have seen on the first part of this show, the court did not find anything to warrant this action.

Some say she is not angry enough, did not show enough emotions, etc. Well, how would you act if you were in her shoes???? Would be having a "Postal Moment"on TV???? What does that solve? I do not know if she is guilty or not, and I am not in her shoes, Thank the Good Lord, but for the sake of all involved, I hope that Dr. Phil can get to the truth. BUT.......if it proven that she did not commit these crimes, what will happen to these boys??????? Probably nothing, and that is a crime in it self.

I did agree with Dr. Phil when he was concerned about her reaction. I was thinking that as well. She just should have seemed a tad more ticked. On the other hand, how long has she been defending herself? I THINK it was mentioned that this happened roughly 5 years ago? By this time, she's heard it all. She's heard the stories that the boys are claiming. I think she just got to the point where she is so tired of defending herself that she needs someone's help. Thats why she went to Dr. Phil. I do agree with other comments that she looks like she's hiding something. Maybe the boys are exagerating? Who knows. I really hope we get an answer today.

Something Not Right

I agree with the others that have posted that something is not right with the teacher. Everything might not have happened that she is being accused of, but I believe she did something inapproproate to get this started. Also the way the accuser on the show stares at her. He looks at her head on like he is saying "You know something happened". It seemed strange to me that she would ask for a notepad to write on. I believe it was a way to keep from having to stare back at him while he was talking.

It would take a lot of nerve to go on National TV and do what he is doing. If you were lying, you would know that there would be a good chance that you would be exposed on TV. Why would he risk that and ruin his reputation in from of everyone? I believe that she is guilty of something, I am just not sure what.

Joelle's defense?

I'm wondering why Dr. Phil didn't have her take a polygraph exam. Now, I'm not a true believer in the accuracy of those tests, but as long as he's paying to shell them out, why not give the 'teacher' a polygraph?

If she's as innocent as she says she is, maybe there is nothing for her to worry about.

I still think there is more going on here. The accusers just didn't get those ideas out of nowhere. She crossed the line, that is very clear.

Being too personal

Well I think that she became too personal with her students. Being teens and we've all been teens before. As males at least we all had at the very least ONE female teacher we had crushes on -

But anyways I totally agree with what Dr. Phil suggested, the entire situation started out with maybe even innocent rumors like perhaps guys suggesting they WISHED they could have that sort of relationship with her, and then someone actually said they did ONCE, so the next guy wanting to ONE up the other, said well WE DID IT TWO TIMES and from there it probably did grow legs of it's own of which that's when it got totally out of control.

She didn't ask for it, but she did I feel set herself up for this or something like this by getting too personal with her students. I was thinking it musta been a small town, but I believe it was said the be in Austin, TX - Which isn't huge but isn't that small.

After inviting students over on a personal basis, they (they students/boys) discovered there was an obvious more than slight age difference between she and her husband - That's most likely when it all started happening - ..

I thought before and certainly after the lie detector test that the boy was lying! - .. He kept say Ummm... Umm..... and wasn't able to look Dr. Phil or the Very Respectful teacher in the eyes.

He I feel just wants attention so badly - ... Good or bad attention - Perhaps he doens't get much in his personal life.

He said he didn't want to hurt her and he would of taken it to the grave with him, yet he wrote a poem about it, read it in front of his class - ... Before then, he had told a few friends - ... Then of course all of the court proceedings.

His whole story was SO incosistant - he rolled over on himself time after time -

SHE did seem guilty of something - perhaps she did flirt a little, but I really don't think that she actually CROSSED THE LINE!! - ... She should be able to SUE to school system in her city because they are punishing her and her name has been cleared - TWO of the three were deceptive on their lie detector tests and the other didn't bothing trying to trick the results, he just plain out admitting his story was just totally fabricated! GOOD FOR HIM!!

It's too bad in the USA we are still able to be punished for things that we've been found NOT GUILTY or where the truth is obvious - ... which only feeds more liars in the future!

Something's wrong here

A few things bothered me from part two. in the encrypted notes, she stated that one meant sometimes I wish you were funnier Matt. If that was what she meant, she could have written that out and the would have been no real harm. Did she write encrypted notes to any of the girls? Why would a teacher who has just a normal teacher/student relationship need to write encrypted notes, anyway? Matt failed the show polygraph but stated he passes one before. Maybe the questioning was more thorough! I never heard the question asked if he had ever kissed her, just one about touching. Maybe Matt sees those as totally separate things. Maybe Matt is lying, maybe not. She definitely had something going on that at the very least probably would have led to inappropriate relations, not that the notes weren't inappropriate. Last, she admitted she married her high school teacher. Did their relationship start in school? Did he write notes to her? If so, maybe she didn't view her teacher/student relationship as any different than the one that developed between her and her husband in the school setting! If he is lying, then she should get compensated appropriately, and if not she should be in prison! Bottom line is that something was going on and only those involved will ever know the truth!

What next!

I am not sure who I believe in this matter. I agree with Dr. Phil when he stated that the teacher was just not showing much feeling in the matter. But then again I wonder if all of the time she has spent defending herself that she has become somewhat programed in her way of defending herself. Personally I did not believe the young man Matt. He just didn't seem to be telling the truth or at least all of the truth. I felt kind of like Dr. Phil that maybe they had a crush on this teacher and like some teenaged boys, fabricated the story, ("I did this with her." "Well I did this" and so on.) It took on legs and ran. Now they can not change their story because of what it would do to them. But what have they done to her?

I have a sixteen year old girl and an eighteen year old boy. Both have told me of students who have been very provocative with attactive teachers, both male and female. These students are very agressive. If they are rebuffed what is to stop them from accusing the teacher of actually doing something. If they get away with it what does that say?

I agree with one of the other messages that was left on the message board, that in this day and age of children having sex at such a young age, dressing provocatively and internet porn, shouldn't the education association put out the additional cash to have cameras in the classroom, gym, dressing rooms, teachers offices, etc to protect the children and the teachers. If I was the teacher I believe I would welcome the added protection, especially since it seems that just being accused is grounds for dismissal loss of licence and being ostracized. A lot of employers are doing this to protect themselves from theft, vandalism, loitering, etc. We have security to protect our kids from the random school shootings why not have security to protect them from the teacher who can not keep their hands to themselves.

I know of a man who was fired for sexual harrassment. He had worked for this company for many years with no previous accusations and because a woman (20 years older than him) had asked him out several times (which he had nicely refused) claimed he was harassing her, the company fired him on the spot. He had no chance to defend himself. Personally I know this man well and can not believe he would do this (granted there is a little devil in all of us). He is kind hearted, soft spoken, giving man. Was this stated because she was rejected, did she want his job and this was the way to get rid of him, or did it really happen? No charges were filed agains him.

Today it is too easy to accuse someone of something especially sexual. We are so suspicious of everyone that there is no longer a innocent until proven guilty. We are headed back to the Witch Trials.

Soon you will not be able to open your mouth or make a movement in your work place for fear of being accused of something.

no retrial needed, part 2

(I have had trouble posting to this site since last nite..........this is my 5th attempt)

As a licensed therapist, I wonder why Dr. Phil is not asking the supposed victims how this has affected their lives? What symptoms do they have from this alleged sexual abuse? Have any of them sought help? Is there a therapist of one of them that can, with permission of course, comment on this? This kind of thing is very damaging. A victim frequently develops acute or post traumatic stress. Their future relationships especially sexual ones are affected. It does not matter if it is to a male or female. A sexual abuse victim usually has to have a lot of treatment and extensive support to confront a perpetrator. Dr. Phil asks Joelle why she doesn't seem upset? Well, how about these supposed victims? Why don't they appear upset? It was not a conquest but sexual molestation if the statements were actually true. (Also, a pedophile molests pre-adolescence, the correct term for someone who molests a hebophile is compulsively sexually drawn to post-pubescent males).

To those boys that made these allegations: please seek help for yourself and look yourself in the mirror! These actions will haunt you the rest of your lives for different reasons than those listed above.