lol, really the only reason I still have java enabled. Though it's disabled by default in my browser; except for when I need to run an app. For working with one of minecraft's nuclear mods. I'm starting to think Mojang is getting paid by Oracle . . .:P

Java desktop apps are still pretty common on internal company networks. They're easier to write and maintain than web apps. And while it's true they haven't kept up to date visually, companies generally don't care about aesthetics in non-customer-facing applications.

That doesn't just apply to java, desktop app developers use less technology, so less salary makes perfect sense. Then again desktop apps have limitations that web apps have solved, so desktop apps in general are becoming rarer.

You can have your web apps, but I don't want to be forced to connect to the web to use software. I moved from MS Windows to Linux and Macs, I'm typing this on a dual-boot Mac running Snow Leopard and Ubuntu 12.04, because MS requires software to contact the mothership for "Activation". I wanted to get Adobe CS but decided not to for the same reason, so I want to either get CinePaint working or find another replacement photo editor good enough for print. And no, GIMP isn't there yet for professional print th

I had to read that sentence a few times before I realized you weren't being sarcastic. MFC was a horrible kludge. Yes, it wasn't bad to use, and I developed with it for many years, but "elegant" is not a word I'd ever use to describe it.

I've got nothing against Java desktop apps per se, but they're uncommon. I would disagree with your assessment that they're no longer slow; the few I've used tend to be slow and have rather high memory requirements for what they do. Also, in my experience, they can be prone to significant memory leaks - not that Java's the only one with that problem.

Java is *not* prone to memory leaks. You have to actually make quite an effort to leak memory in a Java application. Of course, making those kind of mistakes is one of the first things n00bs seem to learn.

I suspect the GP is being fairly loose with the term "memory leak" using it to mean applications whose memory usage goes up over time even though what the user is doing with the app isn't changing much.

One problem is people think a garbage collector stops them having to worry about memory. That is true to an extent but programmers still have to be careful to avoid situations where an object is highly unlikely to be (or possiblly even can't be) used again but nevertheless there is a reference sitting arround to it somewhere.

Another is that use of background garbage collection can create very undesirable behaviour under a multitasking OS and especially under a multitasking OS with swap and from the outside this behaviour looks very much like a "leak". AIUI If something stops the (low priority) gc thread from running then the application will continue to eat up memory until it hits a hard limit on the memory available (at which point non-background gc will be forced). Meanwhile the OS has no idea that the app doesn't really need this memory and so will do whatever is needed to make it available. Afaict this misbehaviour is why java runs with a relatively low hard memory limit by default (which papers over the problem to some extent but is far from an ideal soloution).

I would strongly disagree with your assessment that Java desktop apps are slow. I have been involved with writing three SWT apps that were very fast (admittedly, they weren't doing supercomputer work, but that's not the issue here).

I also coded on them with Intellij Idea, which is written in Java and lightning fast for what it achieves.

I can only conclude that the Java apps you have seen must be inferior, or just Eclipse.

For whatever reason Java apps do tend to be slow. Maybe in raw computing performance it's okay, but for example I have an AMD dual core server with 8GB of RAM that can load Firefox in two to three seconds. If I try to open a Java app like JDownloader it takes 30+ seconds. That is with Java already loaded and running another app (PS3 Media Server). Both are not what I would call fast and responsive when you start poking their UIs.

Right - I think this describes a lot of Slashdotters and am surprised this wasn't an option - "installed, but disabled in browser". Lots of software out there needs it. Minecraft being a prime example... but there's plenty of other ones.

Thing is, Java is enabled on my computer(s) but disabled in all of my browsers - that's been the setup for many months now.

I just use the 64-bit JDK. It gets me the Java I need for work, and doesn't work in 32-bit browsers. Actually, I'm not sure the 64-bit version even includes the Java plugin. Which is just perfect, considering applets are useless and the only things I really need Java for are command-line development tools.

I also have disabled the APPLETS in THE BROWSER, but that's not the same thing as getting rid of Java. Java and JDK are wonderful tools, and I've been developing in Java for past 15 years.

I still think it's the best language/ecosystem to use for development of serverside enterprise applications. Nothing else is even close in terms of maturity and support and availability of tools, libraries, frameworks, etc. Some other languages have more and nicer features, but the ecosystem and support of Java is the most important asset it has.

Sometime in the last week or two I went to a website that didn't display properly and found that it was because I was missing the Java plugin for my browser. (Apparently the IT department at $DAYJOB had just blocked it, because they're really on the ball, or more likely I'd forgotten to reinstall it after the last time they updated the browser and just hadn't encountered any sites that used it in a while.)

The browser plugin is disabled as that is the source of most vulnerabilities, but I still use Java on a daily basis for other tasks. I imagine that is fairly common for software developers, and have no idea which poll option corresponds to that.

The browser plugin is disabled as that is the source of most vulnerabilities, but I still use Java on a daily basis for other tasks. I imagine that is fairly common for software developers, and have no idea which poll option corresponds to that.

I strongly suspect that's because the person who submitted this poll wasn't very knowledgeable on the subject and didn't understand the distinction between the browser plugin and the JRE.

The browser plugin is disabled as that is the source of most vulnerabilities

Me too. I have disabled the browser plugin since the security shenanigans in 2012 (August, IIRC). The only website I use that needs Java applets is the site of the Bank I have an account on. I enable the plugin just before going to that site, and disable it just after.

I have a similar problem, but a slightly different solution - I browse regularly using the 64 bit browser, java disabled. If a particular site needs it, I fire up the 32 bit version with it enabled. Two shortcuts, easy-peasy.

I also use CrashPlan [crashplan.com], which is written in Java. It is not bloated and it is definitely not garbage -- in fact, it's one of the best no-touch backup solutions in existence. No affiliation, just a very satisfied customer. I don't try to dictate what other programmers/companies use for their solutions (as I don't have an experience in their domains, there's not much I could really add) -- when I'm the user, I judge on whether the software meets my needs.

I'm a satisfied CrashPlan customer too, but it most certainly is bloated. For what it does it's memory usage is insane. The service is currently using 900 MB of RAM on my system just idling, plus another 200 MB for the interface. I've had cases where I've had to edit its config files to allow it to use even more memory and Google shows I'm far from the only one.

It's also extremely slow. It will often backup at only 20-40 mbit/sec locally on my gig lan. I know it encrypts files, but my i7 can perform

You seem to believe that by writting assembler and C you mysteriously avoid all the bloat and other serious problems software may have. I wonder why? I did asm and low level languages for most of my life I have a misfortune to see C and C++ from too close - I can see how people mess up their code independently on what language is used by simply refusing to learn and to use a common sense.

There was some CRM software called fishbowl that we tested. It's a huge Quickbooks gold partner so there's a gigantic company behind it. In the Program Files folder containing all info for that program, it contained an entire java installation basically. It ran as a standalone or plugin depending how you look at it and it didn't touch the browser or even technically be installed on the system. I think it was running Java 6v19 or something but that's fine because it's not touching the browser.
WHY THE HELL DOESN'T EVERYONE DO THAT?! What is Open Office thinking, purposely installing a full blown copy of outdated software onto my machine when I may not even use it for browser-related tasks?! Ugh! I hope Oracle goes bankrupt. I really, really do. After this many years, they deserve it.

This is insane. I've written lots and lots of java apps, developed on windows, deployed to Solaris, on JVMs with differing minor versions. Never had a problem. If you need to distribute a JVM with your app to make sure it still works, the programmer is doing something very weird. The only way it makes sense is if a commercial product doesn't want to force their users how to figure out how to install a JVM.

If you need to distribute a JVM with your app to make sure it still works, the programmer is doing something very weird.

Not necessarily. Sun changed the way proxies were handled in the earlier versions of Java 6. This caused a problem where I work because the VPN software we use creates a new interface and disables the default one (for applicatons, anyway). I would be surprised if that isn't true for VPN software in general. We couldn't get around this problem. I'm assuming there are other edge cases

In the world of Network Operations, it's impossible to disable Java at this time. Nearly every appliance we operate uses Java in some way in its administration GUI. Many of the home-grown applications here are also Java based. Vendors typically stray 5 to 10 years behind current market practices, so I don't see them abandoning Java any time soon. Heck, we're still waiting for some to abandon only support IE as a browser.

What I'd like to do is limit if not outright block Java outside of our campus, but t

Isolate __all__ issues??? How do you do that? I do not mean to glorify sun/oracle product because it has clearly issues but so does any software. I think Java is not as bad as some pay try to pretend it to be.

After the recent bout of plugin vulnerabilities (plus what seems like a Firefox bug wrt Flash processes not dying) I disabled all plugins I do not actually use. So far, the only ones I've re-enabled are the VLC and WMP plugins, to watch H.264 videos.

Which leaves Flash, Java, Silverlight, and something called "Uplay" disabled (I think some Ubisoft game installed that - fuckers). So far, I've missed out on enough Flash things that I'll probably re-enable it eventually, but it's been so long since I needed Jav

I haven't had the plugin enabled in the browser for years. But I do have it installed, and use it on a daily basis as a IDE I use (AppCode by JetBrains) requires it, as well as some other desktop apps I use.

Which is unfortunate, because every one of them IMO would be better served by not being written in Java.

Well how about that, I do! I just upgraded my Mac to Mountain Lion, opened Finale (music typesetting) to see if it ran, and it gave me this [iinet.net.au]. Guess I won’t be disabling it any time soon...

Missing options in this case apply to me.
-- Java was Never installed, thus did not have to be disabled -- had IceTea as the option on the version of Firefox/Iceweasel which I use. This option is not covered by "enabled", "disabled", or "not able to be installed". It's actually a completely different option
-- Cowboy Neil drank my cup of hot Java!.
Are they holding Cowboy Neil incommunicado somewhere? Really?;>)

Many years ago I disable the Java in browser. Few years later I have observed that I'm not using the Java thing at all so I have uninstalled it.

So it doesn't apply because I do not have Java on my machine at all.

Looking back, except for OO.o and LibreOffice nobody's complained about its availability. And even in the OO.o/LO one can just click the error message away and it goes on working without problems. (IIRC the DB stuff and some plug-ins are written in Java, but I yet to spot any regression related

Lunixmachine and NoScript blocking not only Java applets (which have become very rare in the course of the last 15 years) but any sort of unwanted #+%&$! from being executed by the browser - so what's all that fear of Java about? Seriously, having read all the bullshit, mainstream media reported about the coming Javarmageddon, I don't think anyone has any clue about systems security or even responsible use of the interwebs nowadays. Assuming that people blindly rely on AV snakeoil and even those giving

But I'm on my machine at the office. And while is SAYS that Java is enable and running, it is suspect to say the least. I have applications that require Java that aren't running right now, and other applications that should be there have mysteriously disappeared overnight. Seems that the people in charge of administering my desktop at work believe in "security by removal". If it's at risk, delete it. No, we don't bother with patching. We'll just wait for people to complain about things not working, make them go through the whole justification an approval process, then maybe get around to putting the current version on. Because, you know, it's safer that way.

He probably says that because you said "many web sites won't work without Java". I can hardly even actually remember the last time I was on a web site that required Java -- and that one was my company's web-based VPN. Otherwise, I don't think I've used an applet in the last decade...

I think there should be an option for "uninstalled/not installed". When I got my new computer I didn't install Java because there where almost no pages I ever stumbled upon that used it, so why add a vulnerability vector for so little functionality?

I keep my JREs (32- and 64-bit v7; I use some non-browser programs of both bitnesses) updated and don't even bother shutting off the browser plugin. This is because

1) thanks to precautions (and a good adblocker that I have a whitelist for) I've/never/ gotten an infection from the Internet[1], and2) once in a great while I visit a site where I actually want to run a Java applet.

[1] even on my work computer which I ran for three-ish years without any antivirus (because it was an old machine and the AV deman

Not installed on our FreeBSD computing farm for simple lack of need. On a couple of FreeBSD desktop machines, I've installed it a while ago, but since it was such an inconvenience to jump through hoops to manually get the distfiles directly from Oracle (due to weird licensing issues), and since the ports were always lagging behind the officially released JDK versions, I've pkg_delete(ed) Java again soon after. I'm glad I did, so I was not affected by the recent string of Java vulnerabilities.

...On all my Windows machines. And yes, I do know the difference between the browser plugins and the platform, but since I don't run any apps that use it, it seemed to be just cruft. Not on my OpenBSD server and Ubuntu desktop either for the same reasons.

By some miracle we're not doing any Java stuff at work either so I can continue to not have it installed.

I use it for Air Video Server on my home theater PC, which does a very nice job of transcoding my hoard of MKVs to my wife's iPad, which then serves very nicely as a little bedroom TV for watching movies. Otherwise it gets used for basically nothing, ever.