So what's new? The Muslim despising and murdering all infidels is always the same. That IS their religion.

What's new is the carrot and stick restraints we once used to civilize them. As Mubarack who was our man of restraint in Egypt having served Sadat had to leave the stage the full force of proud despising infidels and ugly murders of them by Muslims comes back like a tsunami with no sea wall to restrain it.

Egypt used to be a nice place, if I remember correctly. You know, with tourists.

"We can speak out here in America,” Jones said. “That freedom means that we criticize government leadership, religion even at times. Islam is not a religion that tolerates any type of criticism."

Good for him. Burning a Koran is no different from burning an American flag. This is a basic, fundamental right. And the liberals who deny free speech are un-American.

And people who want to respect the Koran ought to read up a little.

The connection of the other five sentenced by the court was not immediately clear. They include two who work with Sadek at a radical Coptic group in the U.S. that has called for an independent Coptic state, a priest who hosts TV programs from the U.S., and a lawyer living in Canada who has previously sued the Egyptian state over riots in 2000 that left 21 Christians dead.

The other person is a woman who converted to Christianity and is a staunch critic of Islam.

I wonder why they haven't issued a death sentence against Obama, who also converted to Christianity?

Ann, I have avoided getting on here but once again I cannot help myself. As someone who knows courts in general, and Egyptian courts in particular, I have to say the real issue is not whether the decision happened but whether it is upheld on appeal. District courts in America (and especially small local courts) also rule absurdly sometimes.

Without more information about which court this was, the charges, or the judge involved, this means nothing.

Aw, man, somebody crapped in the punchbowl and for once it wasn't one of the resident Obamabots.

Attention Real Men of Racist Genius: 1. Two wrongs do not make a right.2. Your actual racism will not be excused by your faux good intentions.3. You just made every Obamabot's projected racist fantasies come true. They'll be along to hump your leg shortly. Have "fun"!

When someone on the left behaves in a racist manner, it makes them and their beliefs look bad.---Their entire belief system is that straight white men are holding everyone down, and need to be punished and degraded. When do you call them racist and dismiss them?

When someone on the right does it, it makes my beliefs look bad. That pisses me off.---You try to force your own side to play by rules you won't force the lefties to do.

Such shaming techniques should not work on criticism of President Obama's policies or actions. Shaming techniques should work on things that are actually shameful, such as Carnifex's comment. ---No, they shouldn't at all. Such shaming techniques should be ignored, because it's just a way for leftards and righty-suck-ups like you to force people like me to second-class status whilst never calling the other side on it.

1. Two wrongs do not make a right.----Destroying morale and self-esteem will now go both ways, motherfucker.

2. Your actual racism will not be excused by your faux good intentions.---We don't need excuses from quislings and beta bitches.

3. You just made every Obamabot's projected racist fantasies come true. ---Big deal. They'd believe it no matter what---and claim it even if it weren't true. But if you keep putting their precious master race down....suddenly it's not so fun for them.

They'll be along to hump your leg shortly. Have "fun"! ---lol. Weakness like yours is always ready to roll over like a bitch.

District courts in America (and especially small local courts) also rule absurdly sometimes.

My nephrologist is an American whose parents were Egyptian. His criticism of MSM coverge of events in Egypt were very entertaining (I haven't seen him in 7 months): his relatives went shopping, went to school, ate fast food, sat through movies - even as Tahir was erupting. In other words, life went on.

Your observation goes along with that.

It also agrees with the Professor's observation that portraying all Muslims as crazy hotheads is bigotry.

Carniflex doesn't usually go tribal, but given the past 6 months of politicking, anything is possible. I know plenty of people who will say far worse things....that would not have dreamed of it a year ago.

Frankly, I get very tired of being expected to feel guilty simply because I am white and old. I've lived in various places around the world, with every basic racial/ethnic type and enjoyed it...even learn some or a lot of new languages as I went along.

Now that life style is no longer permitted. I'm informed I have to be on a "side" and I am assigned the old white guy pigeon hole...for all those who believe that, let me humbly say: go fuck yourself with a chainsaw.

I've lived better, without regard to money, than half the people I meet today who will never feel at ease with anyone who is really much different from them.

As always, I have to spell out my comment so that you can't misconstrue it.

Racists are solely responsible for their racism. The question is, how is it that they now feel so unconstrained by standards of decency as to express those views in a forum like this?

If you think the campaign designed by Axelplouffe and approved by Obama played no role in that, well let's just say I disagree w/ you and leave it at that.

The man made a crucially important promise in '08, and he failed to deliver on it in the least. He chose to distract attention from his pathetic record by playing to people's subgroup identities and claiming that white male Romney was out to get them.

The failure of shaming is the fault of those who refuse to be shamed, any more than it's the fault of those who refuse to believe a cry of "wolf" because they heard it so often and it was never true.

Put the fault where it belongs. People used to care, profoundly, about being accused of racism and would do just about anything to avoid appearing so.

Now you're a racist if you disagree with Democrat politics. Or if you ever went to a Tea Party. When did that ever happen before? Anyone who cares, anymore, about being called a racist is an idiot. It can't be avoided.

And shame doesn't work any more and it's not the fault of the accused.

Well said. Truly, however, most of the left and anti-left commenters here are stil drinking the "Roots"-"Crash"-After-School Special-Law&Order Kool Aid: no one may ever insult or criticize black people without being profoundly evil, and their concerns must be dismissed and laughed at; however, any black person who does anything wrong must be understood and reasoned with, as he is the mere victim of whitey.

One thing to keep in mind here, although Egypt is a fairly secular country (Cairo was often called one of the three most immoral cities in the world), it's also the country that cheered when Rommel's tanks were bearing down on Alexandria.

Baron Zemo said...

I don't think that anyone has a lower opinion of the Jug Eared Jesus than I do but even I couldn't conceive of him extraditing these people.

1. Two wrongs do not make a right.----Destroying morale and self-esteem will now go both ways, motherfucker.

No, it won't. Motherfucker.

2. Your actual racism will not be excused by your faux good intentions.---We don't need excuses from quislings and beta bitches.

Yes, you do. Quisling beta bitch.

3. You just made every Obamabot's projected racist fantasies come true. ---Big deal. They'd believe it no matter what---and claim it even if it weren't true. But if you keep putting their precious master race down....suddenly it's not so fun for them.

You're so very very confused about this whole "master race" thing. (Hint: the grievancemonger's "master race" is the same as yours. Sssshhh! It's a secret.)

They'll be along to hump your leg shortly. Have "fun"! ---lol. Weakness like yours is always ready to roll over like a bitch.

I don't wish Terry Jones dead...but I would enjoy seeing him get his ass kicked about once a month until he shuts his phony administration suckling mouth and stays home rather than shitting all over other people's homes. Damn Gates, Petraeus and Dempsey for ever telephoning him ...giving him credence where none is deserved.

He's a punk...last time I saw him up here, he was running back inside city hall to get away from three black Baptist ladies who didn't like his shtick. The empty pistol holster he wears doesn't help much, eh?

He's nothing but a government stooge to provide righteous cause where none exists.

Man, who needs mobys at Althouse, when you've got Carnifex and whores doing such a fine job.

"I'm not a Moby, but I play one on TV."

These studs are the real thing. Like watching Nick Cave doing Stagger Lee; horrifying, but somewhat liberating, like cutting off one's dick is liberating to a masochist after a certain point in the proceedings. But mostly horrifying. Makes me scratch my head.

In the end, Carnifex and whores come across like a couple of dildo addled punks, circa 1976 London, standing in front of Sid Vicious, waiting glassy eyed for the predictable, but inevitable spitting; reveling in being a part of the world of the poseur. Preening in their mohawks and artfully torn Harrod's purchased clothing. So very shocking. Right.

Well played, guys. Well played.

Like I said, I wouldn't be sorry to see the ban hammer descend. Mostly out of insipid amateur hour antics on the part of the recipients.

The first amendment is the first amendment. It is being tested right here in this thread.

Actually, the first amendment is inapplicable to this blog. Unless you are arguing that somehow with this blog, Ann is acting as an agent of the state of Wisconsin. But I guess there is a colorable claim to that as she has apparently given up on Legal scholarship (which UW pays at least part of her salary for) to devote much of her time to this blog.

Trying citizens of other countries for "crimes" that weren't even committed in your own country makes you and your whole country look like morons.

Spain is big on this. Makes them look like children. The court in Egypt just totally beclowned itself. It's like a huge party to let everyone know you couldn't get a date to save your life... or in this case, are a helpless pussy who has to have a tantrum to get anyone to look.

Bwahahahaha. Within the past 30 days or so Ann has more or less outright stated the blog and its commenter population are essentially Kabuki Theater experiments and research material....e.g., she lectures on whatever and then gauges responses, etc. She said it nicer than I do, however.

I find that kind of fascinating, actually. Professor Jacobson does a similar thing on his blog. I have no problem with others picking at my brain...now and then they'll tell me something I didn't know or help me correct something I was wrong about.

As @shiloh said, it is partly entertainment. For all of us and Ann/Meade in my opinion....like a digital back fence. :-))

What makes their actions evil is not the impotency of Egypt ("Quite the long-arm statute they have there") but an American government that does not believe in the free speech rights of our own citizens. Obama--who supposedly can give a speech--never speaks out when such a speech is needed. He doesn't speak out when Iran is filled with people in the streets, thirsting for democracy and free speech. He doesn't speak out when Egypt is filled with people in the streets, thirsting for democracy and free speech. He doesn't denounce these attacks on our liberties, nor does he even attempt to explain to the rest of the world why free speech is a blessing from God.

But how about this: Only fools, and the ignorant, are surprised by Islamic fascists beheading a 15 year-old girl in Afghanistan for refusing a forced marriage; yet in this little community of Althouse commenters, someone unexpectedly drops the N-word, and the community tries to police itself.

Not to worry, I think we are jumping the gum on our criticism of Morsi and Egypt. Morsi stated today that he learned about how people should be treated and governance from, get this, seriously, watching "The Planet Of The Apes" movie. Just wondering where on the Global Thinkers list is he?

Granted Carnifex shouldn't be using the N word.I think what he's sying though is that If he's going to be called a racist ANYWAY he might as well get the benefit of playing the racist. Namely that he gets to insult Obama racially.He's also suggesting that you libs are pretty big on playing the race card on people who aren't in fact engaged in racism.

Maybe you have to live in and around Detroit? The majority of black people and families I know are nothing like that...but high paid entertainers and numerous "pastors" of the holy mail order seminary of what it is today get well by emphasizing it.

Once in a while we can talk about it....if for no other reason than to clear the air and understand what might actually drive prejudice. It is not 1950 anymore....it is far WORSE in some quarters. We can talk about it in order to not have to fight over it.

The outcome of the so-called "Arab Spring" has been progressive murder, torture, and enslavement of Christians and pagans, especially native black Africans. Well, this is not quite true. The "Spring" merely accelerated a historical progression.

Saint Croix:

As I recall, in Libya, Egypt, and Iran, Obama fomented uprisings only to betray the people asking for change. Not unlike Bush Sr. and Iraq; not unlike Bush Jr. and Afghanistan; but, perhaps, with the benefit of hindsight to firm his convictions. However, unlike the latter two, Obama seems to enjoy a special dissociation from the consequences of his actions.

Then, of course, there are his actions in America, including arming drug cartels, prosecuting citizens for their speech, and a general commission of redistributive change. Here too he enjoys a special dissociation from the consequences of his actions.

He is effectively "walking on water". Perhaps he is a god or at least a mortal god... in the eyes of his faithful.

The selective condemnation of prejudice is a problem. Especially when it is condoned in order to advance political, economic, or social standing. Unfortunately, as Conservatives, we must concede that violation of civil rights can only legitimately be attributed to the individual. Even in the case of black Americans, there are approximately 3% who have embraced enlightenment. We should nurture that minority and not strike out indiscriminately.

Come on...No he's not called that on threads here as far as I know...but we all are inferred that way in the media and by the administration hose mouths regarding anything slightly awkward for them, like Susan Rice's embarassment or those celebrity mouth breathers who called anyone not voting for Obamamessiah a racist.

I suggested earlier today that anyone who insists I am an old white racist guy can go screw themselves with a chain saw. I meant it.

It is amazing to me that people always come up with these legalistic excuses about how this or that is not covered by the first amendment.

They always have an excuse to censor speech. Of course it is always the speech and the words that they don't agree with. It the most hateful and extreme speech that must be protected.

The speech that so many dislike and foam at the mouth got very strong push back here. As it should. But banning it just forces it underground. Where it can fester and rot. You need to let people express it so you can see where they are coming from.

So when people like Cedarford and Inga and Garage support the efforts of Hamas and the PLO and the actions of the militant barbarians to change our American way of life we know where they are coming from. When they mock our "scared parchment" and demand incarceration for any who "slander the Prophet of Islam" we get a sense of who they are in their heart of hearts.

We need to hear hateful speech to understand who you are. "Whore of the Internet" and "Cedarford" both have a right to espouse their hateful views. It is still America after all.

I missed all the deletions. As vile as they may have been, they were just words. _______________

Are the Egyptians as upset about written descriptions as they are about depictions? I suppose the answer is yes--ask Salomon Rushie. This is judicial overreach. The Egyptians have no jurisdiction here. In my opinion, their laws are un-American and un welcome here. This news should be relayed to the powers that be in Cairo.

As someone who knows courts in general, and Egyptian courts in particular, I have to say the real issue is not whether the decision happened but whether it is upheld on appeal. District courts in America (and especially small local courts) also rule absurdly sometimes.

Small local courts in America do not, in my experience, hand out death sentences in absentia by the fistful.

There are always those who would sacrifice the unpopular person who committed a crime or spouts hateful speech to appease the mob.A few weeks ago we discussed the brilliant John Ford film "Young Mr. Lincoln." In one of the pivotal scenes, a young lawyer named Abe Lincoln risks his life to interpose his body between a blood thirsty mob and two young men accused of a crime. He knew that the actions of the mob were out of control. Driven by hate and prejudice. He stood for what was right. Not mob justice by barbarians.

He didn't hand over people to the mob to be torn apart.

Do you think that Obama would do that?

Or would he take them in the middle of the night to be handed over to the Mob?

What makes their actions evil is not the impotency of Egypt ("Quite the long-arm statute they have there") but an American government that does not believe in the free speech rights of our own citizens. Obama--who supposedly can give a speech--never speaks out when such a speech is needed. He doesn't speak out when Iran is filled with people in the streets, thirsting for democracy and free speech. He doesn't speak out when Egypt is filled with people in the streets, thirsting for democracy and free speech. He doesn't denounce these attacks on our liberties, nor does he even attempt to explain to the rest of the world why free speech is a blessing from God.

We hold these truths..............................but only if you're a democrat.

Of course that was just a movie.In real life Honest Abe suspended habeas corpus and jailed newspaper editors.

So maybe it is unfair to expect Barack Hussein Obama to be Abraham Lincoln.

But does he have to be the Burgomaster leading a spittle flecked crowd of villagers like Morsi, Cedarford, Inga and Chris Matthews as they storm the citadel of the First Amendment with torches and pitchforks?

gerry wrote:It also agrees with the Professor's observation that portraying all Muslims as crazy hotheads is bigotry.

I don't believe anyone but an idiot would actually hold this position. Many Muslims exercise their faith the way most Christians and Jews excessive theirs: Emphasize whatever is positive in the tradition and ignore the lunacy. The problem is the whip hand in the Muslim world today is owned by those who embrace the lunacy. A sad fact, and it's going to get worse, much worse, before it gets better.

Another problem is being other than a crazy hothead Muslim isn't safe. Under Mubarak the crazy hotheads were jailed and/or exiled, or otherwise suppressed... not good for democracy, but in the long run a democracy of crazy hotheads is not preferable to autocracy. Now the inmates run the asylum, and cooler heads no longer prevail.

.but we all are inferred that way in the media and by the administration hose mouths regarding anything slightly awkward for them, like Susan Rice's embarassment or those celebrity mouth breathers who called anyone not voting for Obamamessiah a racist.

Oh blah blah blah. That has to be the most annoying strawman that righties constantly bleat about.

How many of you thought either was "racist" (untruthful, evil, and blaming blacks unfairly)?

Of you think yes, but claim you're a "libertarian" or "conservative", you're a joke. The ads depicted reality; you just want to deny reality to preserve the illusion that blacks aren't committing crimes at a higher percentage than anyone else and aren't taking jobs from more qualified white people.

Inga the Lying Obama Whore and Gabrage Pail need not apply. We know they'd sacrifice their own dying children on the altar of leftardian thought; they are currently trying to do so as we speak.

Here's the thing. We understand how in Barack Obama's America blacks and gays and women are too weak to stand on their own two feet. Words can destroy them. They can't shrug them off or fight back with their own rough language. They must be protected at all costs. Anything that offends their delicate sensibilities must be stricken from the record. Erased. They are delicate flowers in Americas garden.

Now we are adding a new protected and cosseted class. Muslims. They must not be offended. The grit and dirt of the arena must not soil their keffiyeh. If you do you are subject to arrest. On any charge they can get.

We understand where you guys are coming from. America voted for this. At least 51% did. So you won.

"The future does not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam."

It means the cowardly pimp mustached little shit who spends most of his time stirring up trouble outside of Florida. He draws huge crowds....of 30 or 40 passers-by maximum...so he demands local police protection wherever he goes and expects the locals to pay for it. One time he refused to pay a mere $1.00 fee for a demonstration he planned. Went to court over it, too, and LOST. My better half was on that jury but refused to listen to me until the trial charade was over.

Terry Jones is a "street Moby", pure and simple...and given his several telephone calls from a Sec of Def, and two Four Star Generals in this administration, I'd say he is an agitating government plant at best. He causes a ruckus and the politicos calm the waters with maximum exposure...all bullshit.

I repeat, I hope see his ass kicked the next time he shows up here...ideally by a couple of black Christian ladies who don't like his cracker ass one bit.

Oh blah blah blah. That has to be the most annoying strawman that righties constantly bleat about.

Say the guy living in Lilly white Madison Wisconsin, a town with about 6% black population. A town I've lived in, too, and found boringly bent left.

In Madison it is a straw-man, in Detroit or South Chicago it is reality. I live in a 90% Arab Muslim community immediately adjacent to a near 90% black city, on three sides. You live in la la land, so you can pride yourself on what you do not live with every day.

What you do not "get" is that many of us here, including my better half and me, like the diversity we live in the midst of, except when some white assholes, or Obama political allies, call us racists. We live here...the assholes live with the biggest mouths do not.

The funniest part of The Producers was the dancing swastika. So rude, so funny.

For those who don't know, Busby Berkeley did some amazing musicals back in the day.

The Nazi filmmaker Leni Riefenstahl totally ripped him off. So Brooks does this amazing thing, combining the swastika of Riefenstahl with the light, funny musicals of Busby. It's frickin' brilliant. Mel Brooks is underrated as a director (as all comedians are underrated). In fact his entire career is built around the idea of homage to art and artists. The more you know film, the more you respect Mel Brooks.

And those wise old white men will be remembered and admired long after a certain wise Latina is dead and forgotten. Because the gift they gave to the world was truly stunning. And truly timeless. Identity politics is not timeless. Free speech, free association and the power to protect them are.

Back during the racial strife of the 1960s I was in the service, a teenaged rifleman. We had all sorts of folks, we got along because our lives depended on each other. Duribg the hill fights in '67 I spent many a time trying to sleep back to back with someone with a different shade of skin, it got chilly in those hills.

We'd come in to a base camp and it was all race enemies. In the bush we could argue, in the base camps to disagree with someone of a different hue was called

Wait for it:

RAAAAACST!!!!!!111!!!!

Meanwhile the Egyptian court is issuing death sentences to those who have done them no harm and that same court is ignoring the guy ordering drone strikes all over the Islamic world. Funny that.

And the Usurper Obama is standing with the Muslims when the ill will blows. Afterall he is a Muslim since he has repeated the Shahada, which he claims is the most beautiful sound he has ever heard. If he were not a Muslim then he would be an apostate, marked for death. He is practicing Taquiya right from the Oval office.

An Election Contest was filed yesterday in Fla. Leon County Circuit Court: WFla. statute 102.168(1)(3)(b)gives standing to ANY voter or taxpayer to challenge the "nomination or election of ANY PERSON to office" based on the candidate's eligibility for the office sought. US Code 3 S.5 requires that election contests be adjudicated by the highest judicial tribunal (Fl. Supreme Court)by 6 days prior to Elector Voting Day in order to attain Section 2 status of the Florida Electors. (Meaning that eligibility for office is a JUDICIAL determination-- not a political one-- SPECIFICALLY by US statute). The Florida Supreme Court has also held that eligibility for office is a JUDICIAL DETERMINATION (Shevin v. Stone (1972)). It looks like the Fla. courts will have to make a determination of the meaning of natural born Citizen without first deciding that defendant has no standing (WITH PRECEDENCE). Plaintiff has PERFECT STANDING given by Florida statutes. Will they actually go all in on the lie of Obama's eligibility, and actually lie with precedence?

STATEMENT OF FACTS7. As a Florida elector, claimant has taken an oath to “protect and defend the Constitution of the United States” (Art. 6 s. 3 Florida Constitution).8. The U.S. Constitution is the supreme law of the United States (Art. 6, c.2). Article 2 Section 1 Clause 4 of the U.S. Constitution is a self executing constitutional provision, that uses the words “no person but a natural born Citizen shall be eligible” (sic), leaving no discretion in the eligibility requirement. As a self executing constitutional provision, no law or statute is necessary to enforce it.9. Plaintiff asserts that Barack Hussein Obama is not a natural born Citizen of the United States because he was born a British subject of a British subject father, Barack Obama Sr., whom was married to the mother of Barack H. Obama at the time Barack H. Obama was born.10. Barack Obama Sr., a citizen of the British colony of Kenya, and his children, were subject to the operation of the British Nationality Act of 1948. By the operation of Part 1 Section 1 of that Act, Barack Hussein Obama became a British subject, upon birth to a British subject father. It is not known whether he has lost that birth allegiance to the British crown.11. The natural born Citizen clause pertaining to Presidential eligibility is a national security requirement designed to prevent foreign influence in the highest levels of government12. The purpose of the natural born Citizen clause, prevention of foreign influence, is affirmed by Federalist 68, March, 1788, by Alexander Hamilton. Barack Obama Sr. is “an improper ascendant” (an improper ancestor), and Barack Hussein Obama is not “a creature of their own” (a natural born Citizen).13. Therefore Barack Hussein Obama is a direct threat to the safety and security of the United States, and its Constitution, which plaintiff must protect and defend by oath.14. The inclusion of the natural born Citizen clause in the U.S. Constitution implicitly adopts the concepts of natural law and law of nations (Morissette v. United States, 342 U.S. 246, 263 (1952). See also Miles v. Apex Marine Corp., 498 U.S. 19, 32 (1990), that adoption of a term of art adopts the entire body of law from which it is contained). Law of nations is explicitly adopted in Art. 1 cl. 10 s. 8.15. The British common law doctrine of “perpetual allegiance” ended on July 4, 1776, when the16. United States adopted law of nations and the “right of Election.” At that point in time U.S. residents became citizens of the United States, rather than British subjects (see Inglis v. Trustees of Sailors Snug Harbor, 28 U.S. 99, 122-126, (1830)). Any construction of natural born Citizen to mean the same as “natural born subject” is inconsistent with the US Constitution and Florida Statute 2.01.17. Law of Nations defines the term of art “natural born Citizen” as one born in the country parents who are that country’s citizens (see Emmerich de Vattel, The Law of Nations, Section 212 (London 1797) (1st ed. Neuchatel 1758).18. The U.S Supreme Court’s definition of the term of art natural born Citizen mirrors Vattel’s “The Law of Nations” in The Venus, 12 US 253, 289 (1814), Wong Kim Ark, 169 US 649, 679, 680 (1898), and with precedence in Minor v. Happersett, 88 US 162, 167, 168. Thus the definition stated therein is the law of the United States.

"Good for him. Burning a Koran is no different from burning an American flag. This is a basic, fundamental right. And the liberals who deny free speech are un-American."

-- And, just like burning the flag, it is a simplistic, kind of stupid thing to do, that only serves to offend people while pretending to be engaging in deep, meaningful speech. It's protected speech, but it is also stupid speech.

In my 'hood, belly dance is quite popular among the men, 90% Muslim (shush...don't tell their wife (wives), eh?) who all are in middle aged crisis from age 21 to 81. Various local clubs, and several in far suburbia (old white guys appear to like it, too), public and private, feature it regularly.

Your experience in the 60's military more or less mirrors mine...and it grew worse in the early 70's. The really sad part was when I finally came home and discovered it was equally bad at home...in three years subsequent to my enlistment in 1968 my original world of childhood, youth, and college had disappeared.

Today, it appears it is gone forever as the new progressive politics emphasizes "identity" linked to skin color, not character....yet have the unmitigated gall to cite MLK.

Why can't the Coptics claims oppressed minority status? They were in Egypt before the Muslims and have endured centuries of discrimination and, in recent times, outright murder....Those who criticize America under the Oppressed Minority Act are allowed any amount of hyperbole and libel in order to make their case. Historical grievances give sufferance to the angry rhetoric of the Rev. Wright and various Panther spokesmen. Why aren't the Coptics allowed the same licencse to express their outrage?

Every speech that gets you in trouble is, by definition, stupid speech.

Burning the Koran isn't as funny as Obama in Pee Pee, but one false god is just the same as another, really. People make a big deal about Koran burnings because Islam is currently filled with homicidal nutjobs who kill innocent people all the time. But that's a problem with Islam, not with the speaker. And criticizing the speaker for inviting the violence is like criticizing the rape victim for wearing a tight skirt. No, he didn't invite the violence, and no, it's not his fault. And Islam, not coincidentally, also flips out when they see a woman in a tight dress. So go ahead and call her a cunt, since we're using anatomical insults to attack innocent people.

Saint Croix ... just in case you might be referring to my comments on Terry Jones as someone inviting violence ...let me clarify.

Terry Jones can burn whatever he likes at home in Florida. He is only offensive when he travels to distant places to capitalize on his notoriety (not to mention his connection to Gates/Petraeus/Dempsey...all reported widely and a classic WTF?) and specifically attempting to incite riot in other peoples' home town.

I've seen the man twice here, once very close by accident in passing ...when he got chased in to police protection by three African American Christian ladies. He wants police protection at entourage levels, but refuses to even apply for let alone pay for the permits required for such events...even when they are only $1.00.

He is a coward, has no theology degree, or any other degree, and is not ordained a minister by any accredited church. Basically he is an ignorant Jim Crow redneck without credentials of anything except fraud and posing...who wanders around in a weird leather jacket with an empty pistol holster on his hip. Yeah, we're smart enough, even in a shall-issue carry state with reciprocity, to disarm his fake ass.

He comes here and criticizes Obama prior the 2012 election, and thus encourages damn near a whole demographic to vote for Obama... which, in my opinion, was precisely the objective. He had to be rescued by police in one faux anti-Obama effort, His connections in Washington DC of today is no accident...he is a false flag punk if there ever was one.

Have I mentioned I'd be delighted to see him get his ass whooped, preferably with a Lester Maddox "persuader" in fitting deference to his beliefs.

That's the one big upside of a draft -- you are thrown into a world that is racially and ethnically "blind" and have to depend on men who don't look like you or come from where you come from. You have no choice but to recognize one another as equals.

That's the one big upside of a draft -- you are thrown into a world that is racially and ethnically "blind" and have to depend on men who don't look like you or come from where you come from.

Although I don't dislike the mandatory service idea and agree somewhat...the problem with that idea today, a general draft for military service, is that today's military generally requires reasonably educated & capable recruits. Nearly 75% of potential recruits are unqualified for a combination of reasons; failed education, mental issues, criminal records, and physical deficiencies.

Even back in the late 60's the brightest draftee recruits were usually sent to Infantry...and if lucky, sometimes to Armor or Engineer Branches. You could literally pass the AFGT test with a minimu score of 30 and not even speak a word of English in my day...and they lowered the minimum score to 15 anyway....for a while. From 1968 onward in the Vietnam Era, the majority of folks who could count to 12 without removing a boot did their "AIT" at Fort Polk....aka "Tigerland."

Hell, even as an enlisted (RA6805XXXX)dude I had two MOS categories, one a box kicker and the other a light weapons infantry...e.g., 76P40 and 11B40. And just to enlist I had to wait 60 days for a "moral waiver" due to a police record that included resistance to authority.

You have no choice but to recognize one another as equals.

Unfortunately, that generally applies only to soldiers in combat maneuvering conditions...e.g., under fire or soon to be so. I suspect base camp/rear area is still a bed of strife in many places.

I'd love to be told differently and corrected on that point, however....or any of these points.

Hey, it happens. Mr. Jones just happens to appeal to my inner lynch mob mentality. Now, having served my career in both military and federal service, there is no doubt in my military mind that Mr Jones is a federal dupe. He just times his rant visits to Washington's advantage to ride in as calmer of the waters.

When I call him a fraud it isn't without reason...beside having no credentials, even mail order, earlier on he was fined and chased out of Germany for proselytizing as "Doctor Terry Jones, PhD." Grifter then, grifter now, just a new shtick.

I hope you note I don't want him silenced per se, or killed, only disciplined ad hoc when he goes where he is unwelcome to capitalize on his notoriety and spread his ignorant bile.

What he infers about Dearborn is 98% bullshit. Period. We are not Cleveland or up state New York, or London, UK, or France, or Malmo. We are a city of immigrants dating back well over 100 years, including in all that time, from th start, Polish, Italian, Arab, Maltese, Irish, and the sundry settlers who founded the town of Springwells and Dearborn, later consolidated. We are closer to the first landing sight of the Back Robes on the Detroit River than most of Detroit. We have a heritage of immigrant cultures and finding a ay to get along. What you read written by outsiders is nonsense in most cases. There is no Sharia Law here, never was, never will be. So we don't need some weird Jim Crow mother fucker coming here to cleanse us. Yeah we are prejudiced against Jones' kind, but not so much amongst ourselves.

So we can agree to disagree. I agree with more of your positions than not IRCC. As for my positions, I am pretty consistent and not too concerned who agrees and who doesn't. I have the right to be wrong. And I find I am at times. NOT this time.

To clarify...I am old enough to have grown up when what block you were from made a difference. You visited other people's blocks and ran off at the mouth with insult or agitating crap, when you got a fat lip or worse, you learned basic etiquette. Insult someone from you own block, same result.

In other words, you soon learned the difference between "stand up" and "shut up."

Both Terry Jones and his mini-me, Warren Sapp, have fairly recent criminal records here, and regardless of being expunged, he is not entitled to CCW privileges here. "Arrests" are counted in consideration of issue, not just conviction or waiver due to expungement.

Jones and his Dove World Outreach Center & the Jim Crow church of what's happening now have resistance to law compliance in many places, including his hometown of Gainesville, Florida.

He has a habit of insisting that anything he wants to do must be free. That sound familiar?

Not sure how the fraud charge and fine in Germany impact this...that may be too old to deny reciprocity...if he even has a CPL in Florida.

But mainly, he is a dick head and I am plainly prejudiced against him. My "vigilance committee" mentality if you will. I make no pretense at being "fair" about in the modern progressive sense. I paid my dues, he needs to as well. He needs to go back to his own block and shut the flip up.

Dude is a schmuck first class...either carrying a semi auto pistol in condition 1 (cocked and unlocked) or a revolver at full cock. I believe it was the semi auto pistol variety, but that's open I suppose.. Claimed an "AD"...which can't happen if pistol is in condition 3 (loaded magazine no round in the chamber) or a modern revolver uncocked (old time revolvers had a hammer resting on a primer in chamber, modern ones do not).

Never mind that Jones has left a cocked and unlocked firearm unattended and unsecured in his car now and then. THAT alone is against the law here.

Unless you are law enforcement, or temporarily in the process of running a store likely to be robbed, there is no excuse to carry in other than condition 3...mag in, chamber empty, uncocked. it's good enough for military police. Condition 2 (cocked and locked) is appropriate under hazard conditions. Otherwise...realize that you are not Wyatt Earp and get real.

I've managed to carry for over 40 years, and condition 3 is how 90% of the time. My preference is older than me, a full sized Model 1911, a Kimber full size all steel model these days, which sfires patterns better than I can shoot in my seniority. At 25 feet...figure that group insidea 6 inch circle fairly gast. My group s at 75 feet (or 25 meters) ...er...don't ask. :-(

There is no Sharia Law here, never was, never will be. So we don't need some weird Jim Crow motherfucker coming here to cleanse us. Yeah we are prejudiced against Jones' kind, but not so much amongst ourselves.

Saint Croix...oh, we're far more peaceful, but the sentiment is the same. As for the local Arabs, they pretty much ignore Jones when he comes to town now.

Jones is one of a few idiots who think Dearborn is under Sharia Law....99.9% of them have never spent over a day here. It's not like I don't have my own issues with Islamists and fanatics...it IS just that I don't need dipwads like Jones firing up issues that otherwise don't exist.

The real concern, from my perspective and most of my neighbors of whatever hue/faith, is that Jones pointlessly coming here could attract other radicals of the Islamist kind, or of the punk Nazi kind in the Blues Bros. clip, to come here, too...and they have no issues with hurting their own kind.

Interlopers are like the littlest guy in a big bar fight...shorty big mouth starts it then hides behind a table to watch.

We have "free speech", yes...but if it earns a fat lip we might want to think about how we say things.

PS: Don't even get me started about Nazi's. I inadvertently spent quite a bit of in time close proximity to Robert Miles here when he was alive running his "Mountain Church" affiliated with the Aryan Nations, the Brotherhood, and sundry Anarchist, Nazi and Skinhead dupes. On one day I even watched, from horseback, a cable new outfit film a documentary of a large gathering of all of the above at his place. The FBI was flying over head also filming. Terry Jones would fit right in with Bob Miles types just fine.

Though you'll get lots of disagreement that cocked-and-locked is unsafe ...

Yeah...don't I know it. I'm not dogmatic about it, I just think lethal force weapons should be carried in the condition the environment, and your job, calls for realistically. Cocked and locked is how I carry when the circumstance warrant it....but that's maybe 10% of my time overall.

I know too many otherwise well meaning people who still think that if some thug busts out their car window and has a gun already in their face...that somehow they can quick draw and fire in defense. Maybe 1 in 599 can do that...the rest, nope...most likely shoot themselves in the balls or the thigh at best.

"Please, please tell you you came down on this side without actually reading the book!"

But of course, Kirk. ;-)

(I'm still trying to remember how old I was back then.)

I suppose that I just figured I understood what it felt like to be a true believer and have someone insult my G-d, and if people were really mad there had to be a reason to be mad. We really hadn't had any exposure to Islam at the time (though I was acquainted with Persians-- neighbors, surgeons, and exchange students,) and the Middle East was still geographically isolated, just like most of the world was still geographically isolated, so an international celebrity seemed likely to have been interested in celebrity and selling lots of books... seemed to me.

It's really sort of funny if you think about it, the difference between then and now.

Back then there was a huge outcry about freedom of speech, even if it was offensive speech, among liberals. It was *obvious* that the principle of free speech was more important than if Rushdie was genuinely insulting or not. It didn't matter what he'd written because no matter how bad it was, he was a writer facing censorship of the worst kind. Whereas my opinion was that it was possible to disagree respectfully and that people should respect other people's faith and not be rude.

Now it's the liberals who think it matters if the book was good or not, the movie insulting or not, and who are trying to tell us that respecting Islam is more important than free speech and that it matters if the book (or video) had artistic merit.

This is actually a profound shift in ideology on the left, and in how many years?