1,657 Responses to Thursday Forum: March 14, 2019

While we recoil in the horror of watching the shooter go about his terrible business coldly slaughtering those innocents, I’m mindful too of all those innocents slaughtered by jihadis we have seen over the years. In concerts, in schools, while going about their business, walking over a bridge, walking along the Cote D’Azur foreshore, watching a marathon and in the Twin Towers. 49 odd dead innocents is a horrific toll and in this war taking place in the west there will be more.

1735099
#2959722, posted on March 15, 2019 at 9:18 pm
One very sad observation I’m forced to make is that many of the memes posted by Tarrant in his “manifesto” have, over the years I’ve been reading it, appeared over and over again on this blog.
Violence is a continuum.
It has, at one end, bigotry and stereotyping, and at the other, what we saw in Christchurch today

It has at both ends.

The Tarrant guy’s statements are a total grab bag from which you could pick anything.

The Western world is currently suffering a severe case of “Chamberlaism”.

Neville Chamberlain had no choice. Popular opinion in Britain was bitterly anti – war, the British Army wasn’t equipped to fight a land war on the Continent, the Royal Air Force was approaching obsolescence, and Chamberlain genuinely believed that no body in their right mind could ever contemplate another war.

The Christchurch I left 30 years ago was smart and well-off.
Well dressed people, beautiful old buildings mixed with interesting modern designs unique to the place.
Lots of old cars for sure, but reallly good public transport.
Stunning scenery of course. There was squalor if you went looking for it, but not so bad.
The Christchurch of today is broken and ruined right through.
The ruble from the earthquake and damaged buildings are still there.
Many, many poor people lounging around the streets during the day. Jobless, dirty and unhappy.
The dairies – “milkbars” and fish and chip shops on every second corner aren’t the friendly little locally owned places they were. They are owned by rich immigrants who don’t need the income, but they do need the visa that owning a small business gives them.
Christchurch always had a nasty side.
But it was never bleak and shabby and full of angry poor people. It is now.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha thank God for Churchill. He understood the menace that Hitler posed. You are correct in that Britain had an anti war feeling after the Great War. But when push came to shove, he had no alternative. To acquiesce the enemy is to dance with the devil.

Beertruk
I raised a family there, contributed as best l could to the community and was rewarded with the pleasure of living in one of the best parts of the best part of Australia, and still live on the north coast.
l wasn’t a local and would never be.
Funny my children are locals by dint of birth.
The roots-to-the-water table locals are so insular, most of them wouldn’t know where NZ is. Or Sydney for that matter.
Some of them have a clue that you’ll hit Brisbane if you turn Left at South Grafton and keep going.

On reflection, going back to the cause of this conversation, l would be surprised that if the perpetrator was from Grafton that he would be any sort of master criminal global terrorist Hellman.
I will run with him being a fuckwit and a clown.

I was at work today, when one of my work colleagues walked up with his phone and showed the Facebook live stream from Christchurch. We all stopped and watched. It shocked and changed the mood for the the day.

Meanwhile, down the road, a gathering of heavily armed WAPOL were in attendance for a reason i do not know.

I think we were about 20 minutes ahead of them in regards to watching the footage. They were all in groups being humans and smiling …. going about their work day. Talking among themselves. Oblivious to the events that had transpired.

Later, it was them gathered around a colleagues phone watching what we’ve have just watched.

Arky
I was confused by your illiteracy when l read along the thread that you had the most important task for the future as a career.
Then l read your post that reminded me from a previous engagement on this blog that you were a sheep rooter.
Now l understand.

One very sad observation I’m forced to make is that many of the memes posted by Tarrant in his “manifesto” have, over the years I’ve been reading it, appeared over and over again on this blog.
Violence is a continuum.
It has, at one end, bigotry and stereotyping, and at the other, what we saw in Christchurch today.

yep, he’s a communist just like you, SNIFFY.
He wants Chinese communism, that’s what we all want here as well.

He’s a Green left wing violent racist.
Although Islam is not a race, he is concerned for the plight of white people, therefore classifying others as an enemy of his race.
That’s because he is, to put it scientifically, a fucking loon.
Or to be specific a lefty loon.
He’s just your run of the mill socialist, controllin g race by force, no different to Hitler or Stalin or the Chicoms, or………………….. you.

Be careful gents, not everybody wants a hug. The hot chick in the elevator for example. I told her the PM made me do it.

When Scott Morrison said to hug each other, the young electrician was here-tall, in his workman’s boots even taller, with a gorgeous moustache, looks like he’d stepped from a scene of the Three Musketeers except in tradie clobber, very huggable – but I thought better of it ’cause his Mum and Dad are our good friends. Was tempted though.

The some total of Milligan’s evidence is you gotta meet this guy to believe him complainant-in-george-pells-trial-was-so-compelling/news-story/c2737320de6619d82f101973eb02e96f I think she is also behind whipping up the frenzy against Brennan. But really, the University educated accuser (whom you can identify given she has leaked enough info about him) could have raped the dead choir boy and be wanting to exorcise his demons. Or he could be a sociopath. Etc etc. Milligan has never tested his bona fides, nor has the police.

DrBeauGan
#2959634, posted on March 15, 2019 at 8:21 pm
I don’t find your display of horror or emotion very interesting. For the women it might be unavoidable, but for men it’s shameful.

You may very well only have emotions towards your cigar, but this man IS horrified at the actions of another human being in shooting unarmed men, women and children.

Did you also take such a cold look at the Las Vegas killings, and not be horrified by that too?
Was your clinical analysis of the numerous Islamic attacks also characterised by “interest only” and having no value judgements about the perpetrators?

Chamberlain genuinely believed that no body in their right mind could ever contemplate another war.

Zulu, my point is that a war against Islam is inevitable. They won’t stop. Ever. Acquiescence to their demands will not placate them. History has proved that, time and again. It’s time to say NO. Enough is enough.

Personally, I’d ban it and every last one of its adherents. It’s ideology is poison. It is a religion of hatred, not of peace. It is the single biggest threat to the world. It’s worse than than the Nazi’s ever were. Not only do they endorse the killing of J’s, they believe the subjugation of women is fine. They believe enslaving people is fine. They believe it’s fine to kill gays. They believe OK to kill non-believers.

Everything about the religion is way more nasty to humanity than anything the Nazi’s ever dreamt about.

And what does the Western world do about it? It not only sleeps, it actively collaborates with it.

No, I’m disgusted that anyone has died.
But I want the blame put squarely where it belongs.
With the politicians, and especially the left wing politicians and all those amongst them who were determined to get rid of the dominant white culture as they saw it, de-unify the west, and set us as tribes.
There are reasons why Mussies are a favoured culture/religion/political force to bring in and yet one white SA farmer brings on howls of “racism” even when they are being murdered in their own country.
There are reasons why people like SNIFFY Mc SKIDMARK are so concerned for the country shoppers but scream blue murder at the admission of anyone with western culture and Christian beliefs.

They set this all up, and when the violence starts from the morons on either side, they come racing in , as we have just seen SNIFFY and Monty do, to lay the blame for their lunacy at the feet of their political opposition.

Those with western hating agendas, those who put virtue signalling as more important than others lives and their country, the foul stench of humanity which loathes the west and sits in Parliament, caused all of this, and yet there they are screaming at those who had no say in it, and didn’t want to import a culture that has openly declared war on us.

Piers Morgan
✔
@piersmorgan
Are you f*cking kidding me???? This guy is an Australian senator? SHAME on you @fraser_anning.
I hope your fellow Australians respond to this disgusting statement with the same blind fury I am feeling.

What the fvck have you achieved Piers you clown? Just an establishment dickhead.

Some people’s inner compass is so fucked up that they cannot tell north from south.
In their heads expressing disdain or ambivalence is tantamount to outright endorsement or at the very least they consider an outpouring of Zero-Fucks-Given as some sort of evil.

Fraser Anning tweetedsomething like anyone want to tell me there is no link between Muslim immigration and violence? Something like that. It may have been a response to similar idiotic tweets which he was repeating but just changing words. I don’t know. It was however stupid, and insensitive (mind you it didn’t stop other politicians from being stupid and insensitive) but Anning’s was a nasty case of punching down and inappropriate for a senator.

When I quoted him earlier today it was to highlight his disgusting hypocrisy.
His comments were disgusting then and the obverse is disgusting today.
Leigh Lowe said -> I see no difference between the child dismembered by the truck in Nice, or the child having his/her head blown off in Christchurch.
They are both children and both perpetrators are evil fucks.

Helen Clark, who served as Prime Minister of New Zealand from 1999 to 2008, said the country’s gun laws can be “strengthened and improved”.
“We do have gun control – people have to be fit and proper persons to have guns – but undoubtedly the law can be strengthened and improved,” she said.

“Personally, I would be surprised if the New Zealand Parliament didn’t accept that challenge head on to strengthen the law. I think we could do better, and a tragedy like this brings that forward as a priority.”

Counter-terrorism expert Greg Barton, from Deakin University said there were plenty of questions to be asked about how Brenton Tarrant was able to get the firepower he had.
“New Zealand doesn’t have a gun register, so in that sense many people have for years been calling for tighter control. In a country of 4 million people, there’s more than a million guns. It’s a very rural picturesque country where people engage in recreational shooting, so you can understand that,” he said.

“You would have thought getting an assault rifle was very hard, not like it is in America where it’s very easy. All the same, a man who was only in the country for some weeks was able to go out through whatever connections and source this gun. How could that have happened? Was it a freak occurrence or was it easy to do?”

AE van Vogt called it the cortico-thalamic pause. It means that you don’t just give into an emotional reaction, you stop, think and evaluate before acting. Or writing. You can’t do it, m0nty. You’ve shown that often enough. Small children can’t do it either, which is why we don’t pay their opinions much attention.

You can call it what you like Beau, you are describing a basic lack of human empathy.

Fraser Anning’s full media statement is here
In short, he condemns the actions of the gunman but lays the blame at the feet of the immigration program.
He says Muslims are the victims today yet are usually the perpetrators who are “Killing…on an industrial scale”.

No worries.
I thought I needed to clarify that I wasn’t playing some moral equivalence game.
Squalid Wally’s dismissal of mass murder as an “irritant” was disgraceful.
Anyone who dismisses this in the same way is equally as squalid.

Old School Conservative
#2959780, posted on March 15, 2019 at 10:17 pm
Winston Smith
#2959762, posted on March 15, 2019 at 9:50 pm
There was a blog that kept count of the Islamic atrocities – there was a running count on the side bar.
Anyone know the blogsite?

‘We are one community and everything we say to try and tear people apart, to demonise groups set them against each other – that all has consequences,’

‘I know how quiet, how still, how introspective those people would have been before they were suddenly gunned down.’

‘I’m gutted, I’m scared, and I’m overcome with utter hopelessness,’

Tell us all about your feelings, squalid. And see how much I care. M0nty will, and old conservative will. But I won’t give a fying fluck. Because I’ve thought about it instead of letting myself be told what to do by my endocrine system.

Aye.
but when there aint an emergency apparently these types have all the answers.

Today, the missus couldn’t get the gates open.
2 missed calls, an SMS… and a picture.
When I rang her back apparently emergency averted.
She: The thing that goes down jammed with the other thing but dont worry I worked it out now.
He: sure awesome.

I went back to the beer with a mate explained the drama in her terms and quipped… strong independent womenzs will take over the world … as soon as they get the gates open.

Tony Windsor is a bitter old crank who should be neither seen nor heard in Australian politics ever again. He and Oakeshott should have been pelted with rotten fruit for putting us through the Gillard years.

Why is his identity protected? Really? Why can Milligan know his identity but not the public? Why can Milligan drip-feed this or that without anyone being able to test his bona fides? Is there something that could surface about the complainant that could be damaging to him and his claims?

As any real student of history knows, Chamberlain was buying time to ramp up the war effort. Without him, Britain was toast.
As any real student of history knows – I’d cite the diaries of Sir Maurice Hankey, to begin with – Chamberlain believed he had brought back “peace, perfect peace.”

He was either blind as a bat to what was happening in front of his eyes, or wished reality would go away.
Buying time to rebuild the army?
Pull the other one.

Not unlike today’s politicians, who turn a blind eye to what’s happening now.
Not only that, but actively contributing.

Prof Siracusa told A Current Affair that New Zealand and potentially Australia had questions to answer over how the attack was carried out.
“Every time the terrorists are successful, beginning from 9/11 to the current day, it means there’s an intelligence failure,” he said.
He said he found it “unbelievable” Mr Tarrant had not been on a New Zealand watchlist.

Catastrophic failure of intelligence. Well duh. The guy broadcast his intentions. He was posting pics of his arsenal for days on Twitter. Not stock photos either. The guy’s dad died a few years back (no mention of mother…abandoned? Divorced?) and he’s been travelling for at least 7 years so it may not be likely Australian authorities would know, especially given several white supremacist groups are known and active in the South Island.

Beertruck, your linked site does have more details.
The sites seem similar. The main difference is “Jihad Watch” mainly features Spencer’s articles, while ‘The Religion of Peace” has multiple contributors (some from Spencer) and an in-depth accounting of Muslim atrocities.

If you could ignore the labore pardee, the greenfilth, the gliberals, Cory’s Conservatives, the national agrarian socialists and various “conservative rural independents”, you’d have no option but to cast your cheaply earned vote for Cloive and his bunch of bought and paid for shysters.

Mum’s side of the family came from there and my sister and I were born there. Our other sister was born in Adelaide when we moved there in the early sixties. We moved back to NSW in the early 70s to Grafton, Yamba, Evans Head then to Delungra then to Tenterfield, which was my last year of school in 1977, in year 11. Scored a job at the Grafton Ulmarra Dairy factory and could’t leave home fast enough. Got to say I have always loved the area, especially Brooms Head. Still go there on the odd holiday. Wooli on holidays as a kid. Unfortunately when my Grandfather passed away, all his knowledge of who our cousins and relations were in Grafton, and there were more than a few went, with him.

Dover it would be really easy to find out he is identity as they were at St Kevin’s on music scholarships. His mate died in 2014 or whatever it was age 30 so you can work back from that find his school year and no doubt there would be some record of two boys losing their scholarships in the same year.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha thank God for Churchill. He understood the menace that Hitler posed. You are correct in that Britain had an anti war feeling after the Great War. But when push came to shove, he had no alternative. To acquiesce the enemy is to dance with the devil.

Not much on the Cat about the ‘make them redo their paperwork till they give in’ approach of the EU to the Brexit negotiations. The fix is in; the EU wants Britain back and further referendums/extensions till they get it right and decide to stay, in the meantime paying up bigtime still to the EU post-EU elections. The people have voted NOT to have any more EU elections, but most of the tremulous wimps in the mother of Parliaments haven’t got the guts to do a Churchill and fight the enemy. They’d prefer to sup with the devil. Whatever happened to the British bulldog spirit? They are currently puppets on an EU string, taking orders meekly from Brussels.

The UK should bite the bullet and leave now, in ten days. No deal. Proudly, knowing that once they are off the EU hook the EU will come begging to negotiate as they badly need the UK’s business. Britain may have up to six months of disruption, as they enter into new trade deals internationally as well, but that is a price worth paying for getting your country and your sovereignty back. Theresa May has been a hopeless negotiator; Trump acknowledges that. The Ireland border and passage issues have been total furphies, non-problems which she has allowed to continue to be used as a ridiculous hindrance to negotiations.

Leave. Leave now, UK, and don’t look back. You can’t be less prepared than you were in 1939, you’re streets ahead compared to then. Find your mojo, an do it.

I can’t remember any muslim saying we are all Australians now. We are all Charlie hebdo or whatever. These are just such hollow gestures. Just reading the reports of what was on that video is chilling; the guy with merciless, pure evil. I don’t have to shed a tear or feel any pain in my heart to recognise evil.

Passing unnoticed in this abominable week was, singularly, the most blasphemous and heretical thing ever uttered by a pope in historical memory. Also at the Catholic Herald.
——————
Incidentally, I am somewhat puzzled by Zuhlsdorf’s silence on Pell.
——————
In other news, Godfried Danneels, Cardinal-Archbishop emeritus of Mechlin-Brussels, died today in Mechlin. He was reportedly the key St Gallen mafioso who engineered the ouster of His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI. He will go down in history as the man who destroyed the last remnants of Catholicism in Belgium.

Dover just read that Milligan piece I linked to and do some calculations. Then get onto your Catholic network except St Kevin’s is an independent Catholic school so you might have to try a few different networks.

People have said their two cents grappling over their feelings, some of which clearly haven’t sat well with them on reflection, some not so much. I must admit my back has got up over the years on the subject of my Islamic terrorism and atrocities like Oxford and Rotherham. It has me doubting whether I should take my kids to the Christmas pageant out of fear of a truck plowing through us and worrying about a bomb going off in the crowded airport at 6am.

The thing that is so horrific about those things is the unexpectedness of them. The people who experienced those horrible events weren’t in a war zone. The same as in NZ today.

It was the air force that really needed rebuilding. Churchill gave Beaverbrook six weeks and a total new broom to turn the whole of the aircraft (read Spitfire) production around. Which he did, working the phones from home as well as visiting sites and calling in mechanics in teams from the car factories, men who knew their game, taking no notice of the British class system to recruit them into senior roles. He dispensed almost completely with paperwork. They had to beat the German Messerschmitts by changing the propeller function on the Spitfire too, which required a better linkage to the Merlin engine, so that the Spits could rise as quickly as or quicker than the Messers during take off, thus buying dogfighting time and advantage. They pumped out enough of those planes in good time for the blitzkrieg they knew was coming within months to London.

The stereotype male in my culture shuts down the emotional response in an emergency and works out the best thing to do as cooly as he can. The stereotype female expresses her feelings, frequently by screaming at the top of her voice.

Stereotypes are in frequent use because they are often good, if first order, approximations to reality.

They are certainly often wrong. There are tough, strong women who can do what men are supposed to do, we have some on the Çat. Conversely, there are effeminate men who can’t get their minds off their feelings. And in m0nty’s case make a virtue of it and proclaim their sensitivity.

IT has suffered a sex change. Either that or his wife or daughter is writing posts under his name.

Pope Francis sends a telegram through Cardinal Parolin to New Zealand, saying he is “deeply saddened” by the murders at the mosques in #Christchurch and is praying “for the healing of the injured, [and] the consolation of those who grieve.”

Gunning down men, women, and especially children, in a crowded space, is never ‘ho hum’.
It’s visceral, if you stop at all and think about it. That feeling is a part of our humanity.
So I’m not retracting a word I said about evil, and reflecting on it, although I take the point many raise that it may be easier to intellectually dismiss events relating to people with whom you feel no cultural bond or where there may even be cultural antipathies.

I’d also say Dr. BG that, as a feeble woman, I am fairly cool-headed in an emergency; I’ve been through a few. However, it is not anti-rational to allow that one may also, at some stage, have a visceral reaction too. You just deal with it later, man or woman. However, I also take the point that hard men, less ‘visceral’ perhaps or more immediately pragmatic, are needed to keep poets and philosophers safe in their ivory towers. Tough men, strong enough to keep women safe at home hugging the kids as well.

Haven’t seen the former CO for a few years, Bushkid, and wouldn’t want to use his name without asking. My point in mentioning him was to recall his concerns about the crazy world of fantasists pretend soldiers. Most of them are probably harmless enough, but some are eventually likely to go feral.

What is certain is that no one properly schooled in the profession of arms in Australia would ever shoot unarmed women and children. For all the bagging they get from the ABC, Greens etc., I’ve always found that our defence personnel have a strong ethical compass.

Yes. Also the development of Dowding’s defence air network, the first of its kind in the world and it made a world of difference. Dowding was also sufficiently prescient to insist on not losing too many fighter aircraft and pilots in Europe and the Channel, something Churchill never foresaw. Churchill was a navy man and didn’t have a clue about how important air defence was, even arguing for more bomber production when fighters were needed. Dowding saved Britain and if Britain had fallen at that time, with no opportunity for an eastern front, Germany could have taken at the least the essential parts of the USSR including Moscow and the oil fields(and the Suez plus oil in the ME). The USA would have had no opportunity to fight the Nazis. The world could have been a very different place.

Six years ago we lost 3 workmates with a potential 200+ to follow.
Clear thinking and complete avoidance of emotion saved them, sure it was training kicking in as well but imagine if any of us fell to pieces?

We broke down later.
Not sure how yours or our response in an emergency is related to what happened today though?

Beaugs it’s against the law in most parts of America now to even suggest that you are not what you say you are so I doubt very much you would have recourse to sue although I agree with you that would be exactly the right idea. If you read his original article you would see to that many glbt organisation has contacted him and used him as a guinea pig to get the laws changed. That is how these m************ work. And who cares about the person.
He is not the first person to regret his transition although he maybe the first person who made up a status in order to get himself out of that pickled. There is another guy who actually runs a website for transsexuals who want to transition back to their biological sex and he and many others will tell you that 90 to 95% of transgenders have been abused or have suffered some form of trauma. John Hopkins University stop doing sex change operations many years ago because they conducted a longitudinal study and found that suicide rates increased. They may have started them again more recently but they were the first that belled that cat. There was a story recently in the paper of a guy who couldn’t get his research funding because he wanted to look at these people namely why were they choosing to transition etc

It does indeed Mark A. And it’s something that you can’t really ever get over .
The only time I’ve been down a mine to any serious depth was in Bolivia many years ago were they were still hand mining. So primitive that we were carrying lamps and I dropped mine down a shaft. When I think back to it now I can’t believe I did what I did those guys didn’t all day everyday four years because that was their livelihood and it was f****** dangerous as. Respect to you and your workmates.

I know I can hear someone putting the foot down in the distance. That usually means high speed chase and use of a death in the morning. Usually some innocent person sitting in a car that gets smashed by these m************. eer.

I hear you Mark A. I sometimes wonder the same myself. If I ever tell people that I love my country – and I really do which is why I get pretty worked up when I see the worst of us – I get strange looks and it’s not because I’m a migrant kid.

Steve I’m not going to watch the entire Crowder video but if he looked back to the Brevnik case in Norway he would find that this motherfuker did the same as the Norwegian: he basically cut and paste a whole pile of s*** from all over the internet and put it together in a way to create maximum Anarchy. The Norwegian even quoted John Howard and naturally we had the ABC trying to smear Howard within 24 hours. I could probably dig up the articles for you because I wrote about it at that time. This guy has named anyone from Merkel to Trump to even the Muslim Mayor of London. I think this Australian guy is actually in charge of his marbles I knew exactly what he was doing but he was devoid of any humanity.