Report: Taliban Not Allied With Al-Qaida

Actually no my friend, what happened on 9-11 was not an act of war, it was a criminal act.

So since the people who are in custody are not part of an army, an army we have declared war on, and are being held outside of the rules of the Geneva
Convention then they absolutely have a right to a fair and speedy trial, just as we have a right to know the truth.

As I have said before everyone is entitled to an opinion. Even if it's a negative and defeatist one, while advocating people should relegate
themselves to some non-relevent level of existence, so you can promote endless war and taxation and a police state to terrorize and rule over them.

The wars have been based on lies, and yes, intelligent people who want to enjoy a quality of life have to get proactively involved.

The biggest trick that the Powers that Be have is convincing people that an individual person can't make a difference, yet history is full of
individuals who have.

You advocate abdication of personal responsiblty and power, I advocate personal responsibility and using one's inherent power to be a true force of
good and change in the world.

Gee I wonder why anyone would agree with your approach, which if you yourself actually believed it you wouldn't even be here involved in this
discussion, well unless you are one of those people actively trying to dillute things.

I'll just say I've never been to Argentina or Iraq, and let you fill in the blanks. I may not have been to some of the other places, either - or I
may have. None of those places, however, are the one I described above.

I have some Bosnian friends - that I met HERE, in the states, and damned if they ain't moslems. How 'bout that, huh?

I am actively trying to talk sense to someone who clearly has none .Dude math doesn't lie.I gave you the numbers and you chose to ignore them.As you
said everyone is entitled to their opinion even if it means ignoring the facts.Ignorance is bliss and you are a very happy guy.You are so self
righteous you should have a tent to preach to the masses.Me I just want to learn from someone with something valuable to teach like nenothtu and
slayer69 who have real life experience and therefore have something valid to say cause they have been at the sharp end and you have not.

Oh yeah and by the way don't think that I'm stupid cause I just joined. I'm allot older than you sonny and consequently wiser.

What I've found is that "foreigners" have such funny ideas of what things are like "over there" because they LIVE in it! Imagine that! Most
Americans can't quite grasp that. Americans tend to think with their emotions - until they see with their eyes. Even then, there are those who trust
their emotions over their own eyes.

They'll believe and run with the first thing they read, because that's what they WANT to believe, reality be damned!

The particular example I gave above was a Latin American country. The opposition there was being reported back here as "heroic", "noble", freedom
fighters" - all that junk. I'm sure you've seen the posters at one time or another.

Reality on the ground was different.

Those "heroes" were terrorizing the populace every bit as much - no, MORE so - than the evil dictator in question. They were "drafting" young men
whose families needed them for one action or another, sending them out untrained and half armed just so the cadre didn't have to dodge any bullets.
Killing off livestock "for the cause" to feed themselves, or as flat out punishment for not going along with the program, leaving families hungry.
Killing off folks who just didn't agree, or just to make an example to keep the rest in line.

Making war on civilians, women and kids, as much or more than their professed "enemies".

Heroes my ass.

Now, I'M the "murderer", I'M the "baby killer", I'M the one whose a "corporate shill" and all that other happy BS.

Fine.

They can see it any way the like. I know what I have and haven't done, and I'M the one that will answer for it - or not, as the case may be.

Thing is, I know what I've seen, too, and I know that they weren't getting the straight story here, and probably never will.

They don't want the straight story, refuse to believe it. It clashes with what they WANT to believe.

Actually no my friend, what happened on 9-11 was not an act of war, it was a criminal act.

So since the people who are in custody are not part of an army, an army we have declared war on, and are being held outside of the rules of the Geneva
Convention then they absolutely have a right to a fair and speedy trial, just as we have a right to know the truth.

They weren't arrested in New York or DC, they were captured on a battlefield in Afghanistan, in the process of prosecuting combat. That makes it an
act of war, not a "criminal action" subject to police procedures and judicial review.

you're right, they weren't part of a regular army, but they were combatants all the same. That's likely to make them "irregulars" under the
Geneva Convention, and since I don't think any of them were in uniform or insignia'ed, they're probably damned luck they were captured and held by
Americans, because a lot of those "other places" would have just executed them out of hand on the battlefield as such, and been altogether legal in
doing so under those Protocols.

All things considered, Guantanamo might not be such a bad place after all.

No my very negative and defeatist friend, not only did I not ignore the numbers you would like me to ignore I studiously work those numbers.

You would benefit from knowing more about the site and it's personalities, but that's besides the point.

Likewise you would benefit from knowing the large number of organizations who maintain a presence on the site and who is a member of which ones.

That's all beside the point though, which is a point that can't be escaped. The Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were based on lies, bankrupting lies
that have led to the depletion of the nation's treasury, the death of too many of it's misquided children, many of whom only joined the services for
lack of any other opportunity or hope to get a college education or big signing bonus, but worst of all the death of hundreds of thousands of innocent
civilians abroad all just to steal and secure resources for a handful of corporations and the wealthy oligarghs that own them.

So while you want to go around espousing negative dogmas, and promoting the non-existent virtues in that, I truly am going to keep speaking to the
truth of that, and the hidden shadow government, and the secrets that they have hidden from the population to force them into a violent system of free
range statist slavery.

They weren't arrested in New York or DC, they were captured on a battlefield in Afghanistan, in the process of prosecuting combat. That makes it an
act of war, not a "criminal action" subject to police procedures and judicial review.

Some of them were, some of them weren't. The truth is you can't have it both ways. You either have to treat them legally to the terms of the Geneva
Conventions if they were legitimately plucked from the battlefield, or you have to give them criminal trials.

In this case we are violating both international and constitutional law by doing neither.

Which is why the former President can hardly travel abroad right now as everyone from the Mayor of London to the Swiss Government wants to investigate
war crimes charges against the former cheif executive of the United States, as no, not all the people were taken from battlefields but have suffered
the process of illegal rendition from half a dozen countries including hundreds who have been since released where their own governments had to pay
big settlements for failing to secure their rights under the Geneva Convention and the laws of the land they are citizens of.

Many Americans are certain that the Government is hiding critical information regarding 9-11 that could run the gambit from showing key figures as
being incompetent and irresponsible to officers of the Government being complicit in the attacks.

They are not trying these men for a reason, and it's a pretty powerful one to ignore both the Geneva Convention and the Laws of the Land and subject
allied governments into paying millions of dollars in damages from lawsuits by the former detainees who were held by the United States, tortured and
denied trials or representation in violation of every international and domestic law.

So once again you are just lying to yourself while you regal us with stories of your life, and try to extract mine if you feel they can help you make
an ad-hominin argument to deflect from the fact that no the Taliban and Al-Quida were never aligned and invading to pluck anyone off a battlefield
defending their home soil was based on a lie.

They weren't arrested in New York or DC, they were captured on a battlefield in Afghanistan, in the process of prosecuting combat. That makes it an
act of war, not a "criminal action" subject to police procedures and judicial review.

Some of them were, some of them weren't. The truth is you can't have it both ways. You either have to treat them legally to the terms of the Geneva
Conventions if they were legitimately plucked from the battlefield, or you have to give them criminal trials.

Ok, I have no problems with that. Those who were arrested in the US, by US law enforcement - give 'em their trial. Those who were picked up on a
battlefield, as part of a military force of a signatory to the Geneva Conventions - thus making them party to the agreement, and so covered by it -
give 'em their Convention protections.

I think we're good here!

In this case we are violating both international and constitutional law by doing neither.

Hold it a minute - Constitutional law only for those arrested in the US - I'm entirely unwilling to apply the US Constitution to other countries -
isn't applying OUR ideals to foreign places that want no part of them what got us in this mess in the first place? It's the US Constitution, not the
WORLD Constitution. Furthermore, one would think you've got no truck with the US Constitution, being independent of the government that created it,
and all that. You want to call on it NOW? What was that you said above? Oh yeah:

The truth is you can't have it both ways.

I don't suppose I can say anything else on that subject - you seem to have already said it all.

So once again you are just lying to yourself while you regal us with stories of your life,

Wait... what? I was there,and don't recall seeing you there, but I'm "lying"? Which one of those observers were YOU, that you can pass that judgment
on ME?

and try to extract mine if you feel they can help you make an ad-hominin argument

To be honest, Proto, I can't say that I care that much about your life, it's yours, not mine, and really none of my business. I WAS, however, trying
to get some sort of handle on the logic you were attempting to wield. Was there any there, or was it more like trying to grab smoke? See, if you could
have attempted an actual answer to some of those questions, there might have been a nugget in there somewhere that could be grasped, and would have
assisted in trying to figure out just what angle you were trying to approach the problem from. As it turned out, however....

to deflect from the fact that no the Taliban and Al-Quida were never aligned

So we are to just ignore the evidence to the contrary presented right here in your own thread, right? Gotcha. Mums the word.

and invading to pluck anyone off a battlefield defending their home soil was based on a lie.

It's your contention that all those picked up off the battlefield were all Afghans, then ("home soil" you said...)? Why weren't the ones repatriated
all sent back to Afghanistan, then? Why send them back to "home countries" that weren't their home at all? No, really. WHY?

Ya know sonny I can at least respect doom cause he has passion for his beliefs.You are as bland and lifeless as a bit of roadkill."You work the
numbers " where's your proof.More blah ,blah, blah.....come on I dare you to say something that isn't unsupported retoric. I think you are living
in a world of your own making. And none of us in the real world can reach the high pedestal you have placed your holier than thou self upon.I for one
will not worship at the feet of you, a self serving self massaging god. Play god with someone else who will buy your crap.I don't ,not for a
minute.This is a conspiracy site and you have created one for yourself and yourself alone cause retoric falls on deaf ears around here or can't you
see that from your lofty perch.The higher you climb the farther you fall.

I WAS, however, trying to get some sort of handle on the logic you were attempting to wield. Was there any there, or was it more like trying to grab
smoke? See, if you could have attempted an actual answer to some of those questions, there might have been a nugget in there somewhere that could be
grasped, and would have assisted in trying to figure out just what angle you were trying to approach the problem from. As it turned out, however....

Earth to nenothtu you do realize that the sum total of the people agreeing with your agruments are the sum total of the people in the forum gang
invited to particpate in the thread right?

You and that small group have utterly failed to convince anyone but yourselves in the validty of what you are saying.

Considering who is in that gang isn't even saying much.

Now in case you haven't figured it out yet, yes my logic is very sound, yes it's based on some very solid observations and strategies, and no the
fact that a few people who can't even be honest about why or how they post play these little games, not only does not negate that but won't disuade
that.

This is a thread where in fact it should have recieved no more than 10 flags and been no more than a couple of pages, which just so happens to be the
one every 2.3 months an unamed poster that leads said gang sends out a number of U2U's to get together a like minded group of posters, to basically
argue with me for the sake of arguing with me, where yes, a simple revue of those arguments will display ad-hominin attack after ad-homin attack in an
attempt to bait me.

Want to know why I have no respect for the person who runs this gang, because he is never capable of admitting it, even when caught red handed, and
can't even abide by his own word, and do what he says and mean what he says.

A man simply being someone who always does what he says he will do, and men always being honest amongst themselves.

Now while no, I don't disclose every detail of my life and what I am doing, the ones that I do are straightforward and honest and sincere.

How many pages of garbage posts would you guys like to run this too? Give me a time too that I should set aside to baby sit you all as well.

The Taliban and Al-Queda were not alligned, the pretext for the war in Afghanistan like the war in Iraq was a lie.

If you want to claim it was based on shoddy, or incompetent intelligence, well why the heck should we be endorsing, funding, or justifying a war
department that seems to get it wrong 100% of the time or the assessments of the dishonest people who support it.

We have all been down this path before, so this is where you will deny it, after having learned the hard way that yeah once again I am in possession
of U2U's sent out coordinating this nonsense.

Grow up guys, get a real life, and stop working so hard to screw up the world.

Earth to nenothtu you do realize that the sum total of the people agreeing with your agruments are the sum total of the people in the forum gang
invited to particpate in the thread right?

Nice. I don't know about any "gangs" (are they right up there with the Hole in the Wall Gang?) but I do know that I'm not alone in my assessment,
independent of these boards.

You and that small group have utterly failed to convince anyone but yourselves in the validty of what you are saying.

Considering who is in that gang isn't even saying much.

I'll let other folks decide whether I've convinced them of the validity of what I'm saying, rather than letting either you or I make that decision for
them. It's the American way, eh?

Now in case you haven't figured it out yet, yes my logic is very sound, yes it's based on some very solid observations and strategies, and no the fact
that a few people who can't even be honest about why or how they post play these little games, not only does not negate that but won't disuade that.

I didn't say your logic isn't solid, I said it's not yet been put on display to make that assessment. Can I expect that any time soon?

This is a thread where in fact it should have recieved no more than 10 flags and been no more than a couple of pages, which just so happens to be the
one every 2.3 months an unamed poster that leads said gang sends out a number of U2U's to get together a like minded group of posters, to basically
argue with me for the sake of arguing with me, where yes, a simple revue of those arguments will display ad-hominin attack after ad-homin attack in an
attempt to bait me.

How is it "ad hominem" to ask you to clarify what you say? You said you don't pay taxes since you've got nothing to do with the government, and I
asked how that worked - which question you blithely skated away from, and never quite explained how one can get by with paying no taxes whatsoever.
Personally, I think that would be a GOOD thing for all to know, so we could ALL stop "feeding the beast", as is your stated mission. Hell, all of us
working together on it could kill it dead, and I can't really see how you doing it alone will get the job done, what with a few million others still
feeding it. Yet you demurely refuse to respond, which could greatly magnify your efforts.

Do you secretly want to just keep the beast on that life support, and just skip the check YOURSELF?

Really, I don't see how that's going to make the war machine grind to a screeching halt. And yeah, I really WOULD like to have done with wars.

Now while no, I don't disclose every detail of my life and what I am doing, the ones that I do are straightforward and honest and sincere.

I didn't ask for every detail. I asked specifically for how one can get by with paying for NO government services, and remain completely independent
of it. That would be a neat trick, and we could REALLY get this thing rolling!

The Taliban and Al-Queda were not alligned, the pretext for the war in Afghanistan like the war in Iraq was a lie.

See how I'm not bringing up all the evidence to the contrary posted here? I think I've grown! Mum's the word!

Grow up guys, get a real life, and stop working so hard to screw up the world.

I'm already grown, thanks, and may even have a year or two on you. I'm not the one spouting nonsense and then dancing away from it, so I don't think
it's ME trying to "screw up the world". If you ask me, it's quite screwed enough already.

Thanks, and have a nice day!

edit on 2011/2/10 by nenothtu because: of unneccessary harshness. I get excitable at times.

Do you mean you've NEVER paid taxes, neither federal or local? Does your "virtue" lead you to shirk that particular civic duty, then?

Sorry you aren't talking with one of the slaves of the corporate government.

In fact I have spent hours and hours at the IRS office over the years asking them to produce where I have a personal contractual obligation to fund in
part the United States Inc and they have never been able to do so.

Social Duty as opposed to Civic Duty requires you only do what you can to help those that you wish too and can.

I owe the government nothing, it has never done anything for me, and I have never asked it to do so either.

I did not grant it's charter, and I played no part in the formulation of it's laws, nor do I have any representation within it.

Since I am not represented in the Government, recieve no services from the Government, did not decree the existence of the Government, no I really as
a free and natural human being born on the planet Earth have any obligation to it.

Nor would I be able to imagine why I would want to support a corporation that might as well be known as Murder Inc.

In fact the government has laid claim to such resources and lands, that it should be able to fund itself through the sale, rent and lease of those
things and pay it's people a dividend.

Instead they tax them as corporate property and utilize the people as free range slaves in a murderous system that sustains itself as a violent
mercenary endeavor.

You would really have to be out of your mind or just stone cold stupid to pledge allegiance and voluntarily fund and obey such an enterprise. Not to
mention have absolutely no self respect.

Thanks!

Nobody wants to pay taxes, but refusing to do so is illegal. It's not a privilege, it's a law, and if you don't do it you can go to jail. There are
organizations that try to fight it, but in the courts they have lost case after case. Sorry, none of us want to pay taxes, but it's just part of
living in the USA.

Also Whether you're "willing" or not is irrelevant. The law says that you must so you don't get a bye by filing a silly form. Contrary to what a
few crackpot tax protesters would have you believe, paying income taxes is NOT optional.

1 option you have is to commit a crime, go to jail. Give up your right to be free and not only will you not have to pay taxes, you will get your meals
free too! Have fun with that!

And moving to a foreign country won't help much either as US citizens are subject to US tax law on their world-wide income. Even surrendering your
citizenship won't get you off the hook since the IRS thinks that it's a tax dodge, they can continue to levy US taxes for 10 years after you give up
your citizenship. And don't forget that the only countries with lower total taxes than in the US are third-world nations for the most part. Monaco
doesn't have any taxes to speak of, but you'd need at least $20 million in liquid assets before they'd welcome you as a citizen. And $20 million in
Monaco puts you at the bottom of the food chain.

If you have gotten away without paying I promise you that they will get you eventually and you WILL pay in some way or another.

If you think you owe the government nothing, it has never done anything for you, and you have never asked it to do so either. Also if you think that
since you are not represented in the Government, recieve no services from the Government, did not decree the existence of the Government, and as a
free and natural human being born on the planet earth have any obligation to it. You are 100% wrong! If you live in the US you are a citizen and
citizens have to pay period.

Step back from the edge, friend. You're getting dangerously close to negating your own claims through unwarranted hubris, all because you feel your
back to the wall. We can all play nice.,

My back insn't to the wall though, nor am I dangerously close to the edge, since I have spent my life living on it, and playing on it.

I humor these activities once every 2.3 months because when honest posters see the tactics employed and they do see the tactics employed it helps to
further reduce the number of people who will support this gang.

It's all a numbers game in that regard.

My back could only be against the wall if my points weren't valid, and my points are incredibly valid.

The Taliban and Al-Quida are not alligned the pretext used to invade Afghanistan and Iraq were both based on outright lies and deliberate
fabrications.

The wars have been fought for oil, opium and minerals.

Hundreds of thousands of innocent people have died.

These nations have fallen and not risen in their rankings on the failed states list.

It has heavily increased to the further bankrupting of the United States both financially and morally.

When it comes to the debt incurred like the war itself it is also phoney standing at 13 trillion dollars with only 2.9 trillion real cash money in
circulation in Federal Reserve Notes.

So like our nation itself it's all a scam.

Hundreds of posters here on ATS are in agreement with me on this, and more are reaching these realizations every day.

So no my friend I am not the person with his back against the wall.

Just the person laughing as usual at the tactics employed by a tight knit group of very dishonest posters.

A group of posters who love war, and care nothing for the carnage and harm they cause in supporting them.

As always it is what it is.

As I said there is a karmic debt that will be paid for all this madness, and if your story of lost love is true, you are in fact familiar with it.

What you don't know is that was just a down payment.

Wise people would be working hard to figure out how to stop this war, regain control of our runwaway corrupt government and dismantle the military
industrial complex and international banking cartel, the corporate monopolies and shadow government.

I really am not the one coming up deficient in the wisdom or the honesty department my friend.

Trust me when I say you aren't going to enjoy paying the real karmic debt on this nonsense when I comes due and it's very close to being presented.

Proto, I've been thinking this thing over, and the thing that sticks MOST in my mind is what you had to say here:

to basically argue with me for the sake of arguing with me, where yes, a simple revue of those arguments will display ad-hominin attack after ad-homin
attack in an attempt to bait me.

Now, a simple review, as you suggest here, reveals that I plodded along
quite nicely in this thread for quite some time without EVER engaging you at all. In light of that, I'm not quite sure how you arrive at the
conclusion that I came here specifically for the sake of arguing with YOU, as you claim here.

As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure I could have gotten all the way to the end of it without crossing swords with you at all, had it not been for
your thinly veiled attempt to take me to task in the third person, in this
post.

Unfortunately, I'm a bit more direct than that, and have no qualms against defending myself and my assertions. Contrary to what you seem to believe, I
came here to discuss the topic, not argue with you, and I believe the record will bear that out.

Since you appear to be a bit unsure of whether your arguments can stand on their merit alone against my arguments, and resort to unfounded accusations
to bury that, I believe it might be best if I just go back to my former stance, and avoid your writings altogether. It really isn't worth all the
drama.

Peace, brother. I'm out, unless invited otherwise. It's YOUR thread.

edit on 2011/2/10 by nenothtu because: Added link to a post review for verification.

So let me get this straight, you didn't come here to argue with me, but you will kindly leave so as to not have to argue with me?

You 'think' I started it through a third party reference, which because of something I am presumed to have said, made you believe you were the third
party?

You really might want to consider reading some of the things you have posted.

And some of the other things posted, and while I won't deny you certainly would fit into a group of some non-specified third parties, it's a group
that includes a few other people besides you.

In case you want to know what caused my ire in that case, is the often arrogant notion some soldiers, ex-soldiers, and wanna be soldiers and armchair
warriors promote of trying to cast anyone not down range in one of these rediculous war zones as a coward.

The truth is the students gunned down at Kent State by the National Guard didn't have weapons but they died for their beliefs.

Countless people who protest, agitate, demonstrate, and coordinate to end wars and make the world a more peaceful place, and against the corporate
government and the banking cartel, have faced and endured beatings by armed thugs, tear gassed, bludgeoned, bombarded with sound cannons, shot with
rubber bullets and bean bags, and in some cases live ammunition etc, etc.

The notion that people who stand up for their convictions with out guns, against people who have guns, makes them cowards is simply insulting and
arrogant.

It shows a shocking lack of respect for peaceful people who would chose to solve their problems through dialouge.

Communication can solve almost any disagreement when people communicate honestly, are honest about their intentions and abide by their agreements.

Thats not what the members of this particular forum gang seem to ever want to do.

That sure is not what our Government ever wants to do.

We have an out of control government.

Period.

To me anyone who isn't addressing that is a coward.

Don't feed the beast.

In reality if you look at history the hardest thing to win is the peace, that's why our leaders keep us at war, because a peaceful society is a
demanding one, it wants a decent living and wage, employment, arts and entertainment and a quality of life, accountable government and they have the
time and money to make sure the government is accountable.

When our leaders step up to the microphone and declare they are entering a war that will not end in our lifetime, then all they are declaring is they
are incapable of winning the peace, of providing prosperity, of caring about the people.

Little boys strap on guns and play cowboys and Indians, big boys keep the people they love safe and secure and provide for them.

You see my friend, on slave planet earth the people have been trained to fear peace more than they fear war.

Want to keep losing the things you love the most, keep supporting this government and it's lust for war.

TPTB always wanted people like you to "police " the people , to intimidate and pressure people into Conforming . You do the job of tptb very well.
Shall we find about the irs ? Straight from the horses mouth ? ok ! www.youtube.com...

You do know that referring to yourself in third person is a symptom of narcissism and dissociative disorder.
Are we having trouble with our ego? Are we wanting to be someone else while distancing the real self as far away as possible? Very interesting.......i
could create a thread....

Back to the subject, You say you pay no taxes......yet fail to make the connection that anytime you buy ANYTHING, I dont care if its gas or cheese,
that you are paying taxes......

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