I decided to revise the Granger for Rose thread. Same sort of deal as the other one though.

Trader Joe

05-12-2008, 02:41 PM

Leave everything else at the door. Assume a straight up deal has been proposed to the Pacers that the other team already signed off on. Who all are you willing to give up Granger for?

Speed

05-12-2008, 02:47 PM

I know you want a pure response and I did that, but if they did trade Granger for any of those players, I'd want a Portland type approach where you bring in a TON of new blood and new players, get multiple draft picks and just blow up the whole thing.

No old guard left to leave a gray area of who is in a leadership role or hampering a really young team from the excellerated responsibility of being the main cogs in a potential contender.

I'd want almost all of the current team gone and as many picks in the next two years as you could get for them.

Trader Joe

05-12-2008, 02:48 PM

I agree Speed. I'm just trying to get a reading on the board's overall value of Granger as a player.

OakMoses

05-12-2008, 03:18 PM

I went with Rose. He's the only one of the top-tier players in this draft that I don't think there are significant questions about.

If I had the resources to investigate Beasley, Bayless, and Mayo further, I could see making a trade for them. Personally, I haven't seen Bayless or Mayo play enough to have a really good idea of how good they'll be.

JayRedd

05-12-2008, 03:36 PM

Rose and Beasley obviously. I haven't seen Bayless enough to have an opinion. The rest...meh. Mayo is probably more talented but may or may not be a dunce, so that's a no go. Brook and Westbrook are the only other two I see as having any chance to be a better NBA player. Not enough to trade for them though.

Major Cold

05-12-2008, 03:42 PM

why love ms. grace?

OnlyPacersLeft

05-12-2008, 03:49 PM

how about none? you guys can't see granger is a star in the making!? would you want to trade t-mac in his toronto days?

Speed

05-12-2008, 03:50 PM

how about none? you guys can't see granger is a star in the making!? would you want to trade t-mac in his toronto days?

I know, it would pain me to potentially watch him make 5 or 6 allstar games while Rose is learning the ropes.

croz24

05-12-2008, 04:02 PM

I went with Rose. He's the only one of the top-tier players in this draft that I don't think there are significant questions about.

If I had the resources to investigate Beasley, Bayless, and Mayo further, I could see making a trade for them. Personally, I haven't seen Bayless or Mayo play enough to have a really good idea of how good they'll be.

the reason mayo and rose stand out above beasley and bayless in my eyes is how they led their teams. rose and mayo took the leadership role without hesitation as freshman and made their team and teammates that much better. shouldn't have to comment on rose, but mayo's potential lies in his on-court persona. he has the personality of the greats on the court. his game might not match that personality just yet, but there's no question he's striving to get there. of course his questions deal with some off-court issues that have plagued him since high school and his lack of ideal athleticism most great pg/sgs possess.

while beasley averaged something around 25ppg 12rpg, kansas st was in and out of the top 25 all year and somewhat disappointed imo throughout the year. beasley was much like durant in that regards. posted HUGE numbers but didn't really do much for his team, or at least not as much as you'd expect from a poy-candidate. i view durant and beasley as nearly identicals in terms of how you view their future/potential...

bayless' situation is somewhat different in that arizona was missing players to injury all year which placed probably too much pressure on bayless to lead the team to victory. zona's situation was much like iu's under dakich in that they had 2 star players and an interim coach in kevin o'neill the players really didn't take to. but bayless held his own in the tough pac-10. most compare him to a more athletic arenas but without the crazy personality. i do have questions about bayless' potential to "lead" an nba team like a paul or dwill. but he should be an all-star caliber player regardless...

Rajah Brown

05-12-2008, 04:10 PM

OPL-

Ya, I'd take Rose now over T-Mac back then.

With today's defensive rules, I think that Rose will be a great,
NBA PG. I'll take a great PG over almost any SF or SG.
And that list includes T-Mac at any point in his career.

Trader Joe

05-12-2008, 04:13 PM

I don't think comparing Granger to T-Mac is that great of a selling point. Especially when you are talking about acquiring a PG like Rose.

Jonathan

05-12-2008, 04:13 PM

If you want to win now you keep D Granger
If you want to build for the future you trade him, but do a sign and trade deal. He is still in his rookie contract.

I want to win now, It would be dumb to trade up in the draft when you already have a lottery pick. This draft is not very deep allstar wise. Yes you have Rose/Beasely but we can argue all day about who is third Mayo/Bayless/Lopez, but the fact of the matter is we will have a good player slip to us and Granger is still in his rookie contract let's see what he can do before we trade him for a coin flip.

Robertmto

05-12-2008, 04:43 PM

I'd liek to hear from Rambo_Lamar. He voted non e of th above here, and no in the other thread. Please explain

Ownagedood

05-12-2008, 04:47 PM

Beasley, Rose, Bayless and Lopez.

BlueNGold

05-12-2008, 06:14 PM

Rose is a no brainer. Beasley I would have to go with too. Bayless is a player we might look back on and wish we moved up...but it is a risk...one I flip flop on taking...

Anthem

05-12-2008, 06:22 PM

would you want to trade t-mac in his toronto days?
Depends on what I was trading for. If I was Toronto and I had a chance to trade TMac for a top-flight PG, I'd have taken that trade no question. Especially since they ended up losing TMac for nothing.

count55

05-12-2008, 06:24 PM

Only Rose.

LG33

05-12-2008, 06:30 PM

I'd never trade a proven commodity for an unknown, even if it were Rose or Beasley. I don't think Durant is that good, and I've heard more about him than either of these two. Plus, Granger is a fan favorite. I mean, he's this fan's favorite.

Anthem

05-12-2008, 06:33 PM

:rotflmao: Ok, that's hilarious. croz just got pwned by.... himself.

Look who he voted for and you'll see what I mean.

:laugh:

grace

05-12-2008, 06:58 PM

why love ms. grace?

Because his uncle is a Beach Boy? :shrug: It's as good a reason as any.

Actually I decided since I said I'd take Chris Paul over Josh Howard then I should pick a big guy.

Will Galen

05-12-2008, 07:07 PM

:rotflmao: Ok, that's hilarious. croz just got pwned by.... himself.

Look who he voted for and you'll see what I mean.

:laugh:

Yep, he's been preaching to trade Granger for a top five pick and he only voted for 4. That is really funny! Good catch!

I'm dying to hear his spin on that one.

Kegboy

05-12-2008, 08:47 PM

Plus, Granger is a fan favorite. I mean, he's this fan's favorite.

Man, Stanko's gonna be pretty hurt by that statement.

LG33

05-12-2008, 08:50 PM

Man, Stanko's gonna be pretty hurt by that statement.

We all know: NO POSSIBLE HURT STANKO.

AesopRockOn

05-12-2008, 08:54 PM

I'd never trade a proven commodity for an unknown, even if it were Rose or Beasley. I don't think Durant is that good, and I've heard more about him than either of these two. Plus, Granger is a fan favorite. I mean, he's this fan's favorite.

I think KD's going to average 25 a game next year.

Like people have said, B-Easy (he's already better than DG) and Rose (definite perenial All Star guard in the East) are obvious. I'd gamble on the two PG's, or I guess they could be combo guards, because we NEED some guards with game on this team. All of this is completely irrelevant; I guess this is the stuff dreams are made of.

BobbyMac

05-12-2008, 08:57 PM

Of the 12 players in your poll, history would tell us that no more than 2 will ever be an all star....Keep Granger.

BlueNGold

05-12-2008, 08:58 PM

I think KD's going to average 25 a game next year.

Like people have said, B-Easy (he's already better than DG) and Rose (definite perenial All Star guard in the East) are obvious. I'd gamble on the two PG's, or I guess they could be combo guards, because we NEED some guards with game on this team. All of this is completely irrelevant; I guess this is the stuff dreams are made of.

I agree and if KD stays healthy he will be going well beyond 25ppg. He has the length and athleticism to be virtually unguardable in a couple years. Unlike Lebron, he did not have an NBA ready body. Once that changes, look out!

Robertmto

05-12-2008, 09:00 PM

yes because we should only trade Granger for an allstar.....because he is one, ya know

d_c

05-12-2008, 09:06 PM

I agree and if KD stays healthy he will be going well beyond 25ppg. He has the length and athleticism to be virtually unguardable in a couple years. Unlike Lebron, he did not have an NBA ready body. Once that changes, look out!

I saw Durant on a few occasions this year and that guy is already a very impressive player.

He entered the season at 18 years old and from the very get go, he was commanding double teams and was the main focus of every opposing defense and it continued for the remainder of the season. I know the Sonics weren't a good team, but how many 18 year olds enter the league with that kind of presence?

The only guy I've seen who had a more impressive year as a rookie entering the league at 18 was Lebron. That's it. If you're not impressed by what Kevin Durant showed, then it obviously takes a lot to impress you.

Kegboy

05-12-2008, 09:06 PM

yes because we should only trade Granger for an allstar.....because he is one, ya know

Well considering Larry can get away with calling Jamaal an All-Star caliber player, what do you expect?

JayRedd

05-12-2008, 09:07 PM

Of the 12 players in your poll, history would tell us that no more than 2 will ever be an all star....Keep Granger.

It's science.

croz24

05-13-2008, 12:14 AM

how did i get owned by myself? is the #1 pick a top 5 pick? what about #2? #3? and #4 is that a top 5 pick? the top 5 pick is a point of reference and i've stated the players i'd want to trade granger for. it's clear we won't get rose or beasley, so i'd trade granger for bayless or mayo in a heartbeat. and chances are great lopez gets drafted before bayless and/or mayo...what, do you want me to make a list of players i feel can be as good as if not better than granger?

no comment on the foreigners as i've obviously never watched them play

duke dynamite

05-13-2008, 12:32 AM

Granger>all those guys.

No way in a million years will I give up Danny.

Shade

05-13-2008, 12:53 AM

I voted for Beasley, Rose, and EJ.

I'm not completely certain that Beasley will be better, but I'd take a chance at the potential of getting a franchise player.

I'd do it for Rose without a second thought.

EJ is kind of a catch-22, as I would really want him and Danny on the same team.

Eindar

05-13-2008, 06:26 AM

how did i get owned by myself? is the #1 pick a top 5 pick? what about #2? #3? and #4 is that a top 5 pick? the top 5 pick is a point of reference and i've stated the players i'd want to trade granger for. it's clear we won't get rose or beasley, so i'd trade granger for bayless or mayo in a heartbeat. and chances are great lopez gets drafted before bayless and/or mayo...what, do you want me to make a list of players i feel can be as good as if not better than granger?

no comment on the foreigners as i've obviously never watched them play

Bayless doesn't have the quickness of Iverson or the ability to fini****oughness/frame of Wade, and other than those two, there's no precedent for a franchise undersized SG in recent memory. Draft Express shows him as a rich man's Monta Ellis at best, but Monta Ellis isn't even a starter. At worst, he's Willie Green or Louis Williams, which means a journeyman backup. Way too risky to trade Granger for that.

Randolph is Bender with less range and less size at the exact same age. You wanna roll the dice on that? Because Granger is a lot better now than Antonio Davis was when we traded him for Bender.

Your probables and maybes are laughable. There are only two "locks" to be better than Granger, and that's Beasley and Rose. Mayo is a Maybe, and the rest are Possibly or Unlikely.

deekay85

05-13-2008, 07:21 AM

I would take Rose cause of PG Issues in Indiana.

Gamble1

05-13-2008, 08:18 AM

I think KD's going to average 25 a game next year.

Like people have said, B-Easy (he's already better than DG) and Rose (definite perenial All Star guard in the East) are obvious. I'd gamble on the two PG's, or I guess they could be combo guards, because we NEED some guards with game on this team. All of this is completely irrelevant; I guess this is the stuff dreams are made of.

WE'll there goes the fun of it. What are suppose to do now since we still have a major part of the summer to get our hopes up?

Mourning

05-13-2008, 08:21 AM

Rose is a no brainer. Beasley I would have to go with too. Bayless is a player we might look back on and wish we moved up...but it is a risk...one I flip flop on taking...

Rose and Beasley are no-brainers for me. Bayless I would have to think about very carefully, but I could see myself doing it. The rest? Not so much.

Major Cold

05-13-2008, 08:37 AM

Grace giving love to the big man. ;)

Whoa I did not mean that in that manner . errrrr. What I meant....(digging deeper)...Is that......

Why bother she has already ignored me....Kegboy just tell her I really did not mean it that way.

Hicks

05-13-2008, 11:08 AM

Grace giving love to the big man. ;)

:eek:

Naptown_Seth

05-13-2008, 11:56 AM

why love ms. grace?
I was the second and it's because I like his maturity as a player. This is why I'm so hyped on him. I realize the "top end" concerns but I don't care. I want a guy who will make very smart choices with the ball, and despite Mike's rep he hasn't really done that as well as people think. Sure I'd rather have a PG to do that, but there isn't a trustworthy PG on the board other than Rose, even if Bayless will become that.

Love, Rose and Beasley are to me already as advertised and therefore moderately safe picks. Love isn't as talented, but is top 10 mocked for a reason.

LG33

05-13-2008, 12:03 PM

Kevin Love has Greg Ostertag written all over him.

JayRedd

05-13-2008, 12:12 PM

That's a pretty odd tattoo to get.

I woulda gone with the "Mark Eaton" inside a heart.

Major Cold

05-13-2008, 02:42 PM

I like Love. But he is not worth Danny.

grace

05-13-2008, 05:40 PM

Kevin Love has Greg Ostertag written all over him.

That must be why I voted for him since I know Greg's wife.

Rajah Brown

05-13-2008, 06:04 PM

LG33-

I wouldn't give up DG for Kevin Love. But Love probably excretes
more Bball-IQ each time he takes a leak than Ostertag ever had
at any point in his career.

Hicks

05-13-2008, 07:11 PM

I'd be happy to draft Love, but not for Danny. That's begging for disappointment.

grace

05-13-2008, 07:30 PM

I'd be happy to draft Love, but not for Danny. That's begging for disappointment.

And here I thought just being a Pacers fan was begging for disappointment. :shrug:

Eindar

05-13-2008, 11:07 PM

And here I thought just being a Pacers fan was begging for disappointment. :shrug:

Not if you hop off the bandwagon every time they have a bad season.

JayRedd

05-13-2008, 11:10 PM

You're gonna get some hop-ons.

jeffg-body

05-13-2008, 11:38 PM

I say keep Danny, but field and interest for Dunleavy.

Infinite MAN_force

05-13-2008, 11:40 PM

Rose for sure.

Bayless maybe. For example if we were talking about a straight up trade where we keep the 11th pick I would consider Bayless, but that would never happen. If we could trade Danny, get bayless, and add yet another player with the 11th pick (maybe speights?) You still have williams or dunleavy to man the 3. Yeah. That would be worth consideration. But as I said, not gonna happen...

Naptown_Seth

05-14-2008, 12:15 PM

yes because we should only trade Granger for an allstar.....because he is one, ya know
Let's see how it's faring come January.

LG33-

I wouldn't give up DG for Kevin Love. But Love probably excretes
more Bball-IQ each time he takes a leak than Ostertag ever had
at any point in his career.
Exactly. There is NOTHING about Love that is Bowie, Ostertag, etc like. He is NOT "size and you can't teach size". He's a guy that maxes out what he has with smart play. I think you can expect an impact on par with Battier, another smart player. The Pacers have been nearly devoid of that, outside of Foster basically. I mean guys like Mike have areas they grasp well, but for the most part everyone on the team is limited by game IQ except Jeff, who is just limited in talent and has the IQ flat out from experience.

As I just said in the first part, DG is headed toward AS buzz I think. He's already moved up the draft list in reviews by non-Pacer based sources, which means he is being noticed. One more step in confidence, perhaps a bump in his passing game and he'll be close. All it takes is his block or dunk hitting every ESPN recap of Pacers games along with a 20-8-3 line and 40% from 3 for him to get and keep enough attention. We already started seeing where he was often the story/play of the game this year. Making Pacers and Danny synonymous to the average fan is the next step.

But I'd still perhaps risk a shot at Love's IQ. I realize why most people wouldn't and have no problem with that. I think croz strongly overestimated the ability of most draft picks to match Danny at this point. I'm not banking on Love's potential, I'm taking where he's at now because it's useful (passing, smart defense). I'm only risking for potential on B-Easy and Rose.

Someone else in this draft WILL be better than Danny. But guessing that right is nearly impossible. Could be Lee or Spreights or freaking DJ White where everyone wonders where that came from ala Arenas. But unless you are getting 2 picks I'll keep the one in the hand instead.

Major Cold

05-14-2008, 12:18 PM

If Danny has a season like he did in April then there will be no trading him.