I got me a few 140mm Slip Stream XT's, two each of the 800 RPM and 500 RPM, and the sample variance was significant. One of each model has a lot of ticking going on anywhere beyond lowest possible speed above 5V, while one of each were fine. The practical speed of the two 500's were a bit above 600 while the 800's were fairly close to their spec at just above 800. So for case use I'd limit myself to the "500" model, if I buy them again. Kinda reminds me of the old Slip Stream 140 which of two bought separately were both clickers, as oposed to the original 120mm Slip Stream model of which I've had over a dozen samples all being just fine. To me this significant range of variance bothers me much more than any low specs in the MTBF category.

They are inexpensive, but it makes them feel too cheap, even if they certainly are being scrutinised beyond the average consumer level. Even the ticking samples are after all ok for average builds, especially if used well inside a case like on a CPU cooler. I liked the full sized frame and the included extra set of holes for 120mm mounting makes it possible to combine with something like 120 fan guards, filters or what not. The included silicone mounting pins were a good bonus and installable without needing much tugging at their ends to engage. With a bit of fiddling they could practically be pushed on even when reaching the pull-end was not possible, something the designers of such pins should really aim for.

Might be old news, but I just noticed that the America website now are alive and kicking. And there's a list of resellers, so it seems Scythe finally got their act together.

Thanks for the info, its nice to see scythe back in the US, hope to see their prodcuts at the usual prices on the US, kinda sad that no amazon just newegg (my cc are not accepted there), but i guess Frozen n PerformancePC should do.

GTs have been available even without ScytheUSA, i believe they were importing them directly due to high demand there is for the 1850rpm version, some were not imported though like 500rpm version, but the higher 1850/1450/1150 usually were in stock, i think when we see CPU heatsinks on those sites might be the time when US supplier is already functioning.

Not a great fan (get it?!) of making new posts, so I'll go ahead and ask this here.. are the Grand Flex really that bad?

I need two new fans to orient horizontally which can run at 600RPM~ and 2000RPM~ when required. The old Slip Streams have sleeve bearings, which I believe don't like being placed horizontally, and the new DB Slip Streams were reviewed here as being something of a backwards step in terms of both noise and cooling ability. I have also investigated the "Enermax Twister Pressure" but some reviews say it doesn't sound great with lower volts. Plus, Enermax also makes LED fans and I have principals! Currently, I have a S-FLEX SFF21E and Noctua NF-P12 (1200 & 1300 RPM respectively) strapped to the GTX 970 which, when not gaming, are always at 600RPM~. Unfortunately, The Witcher 3 (that guy needs a Strepsil) makes it hit 83°C within 10 minutes and I am not super comfortable with that.

So, this brings me back to the Grand Flex series. They're rated to have rather high static pressure, undervolt to 600RPM~, and even have a 2000RPM version (the 2400RPM PWM version would also be an option, but I'd use them off a 3-pin header with software voltage control). I take what SPCR says very seriously and most of my previous choices have been influenced by this site, so I am scared of going against the good advice offered here.

Has anyone had good experiences with this series? Any other fans come to mind that I should investigate?

I have also investigated the "Enermax Twister Pressure" but some reviews say it doesn't sound great with lower volts.

Twister Pressure (and the angry sister Twister Storm) doesn't sound that good at about any speed, IMHO, but I can confirm they are significantly louder than the competition under 1500rpm.

Hammy wrote:

Any other fans come to mind that I should investigate?

The Fractal HP12 is in the same class of Twister Pressure, but it behave significantly better noise-wise: it's PWM but the 3 pin HF12 doesn't spin enough high. Then there's the faster Noctua F12 iPPC 2000, though its 3-phase motor may be heard as clicky at very low spinning, and it has a somehow rougher signature at the highest. Eventually there's the even faster EK Vardar F4-120ER, but I didnt tested it well yet, which should offer enough low emissions under around 1000rpm but lot of airflow above about 1500rpm, so I'd expect a better airflow/noise ratio than most of competitors at the higher speeds.

Twister Pressure (and the angry sister Twister Storm) doesn't sound that good at about any speed, IMHO, but I can confirm they are significantly louder than the competition under 1500rpm.

Really? I'm starting to think the "103 12cm case fans review" article (available on your nearest interwebs) was sponsored by Enermax! I can probably take everything else from there with a pinch of salt too.

quest_for_silence wrote:

The Fractal HP12 is in the same class of Twister Pressure, but it behave significantly better noise-wise: it's PWM but the 3 pin HF12 doesn't spin enough high. Then there's the faster Noctua F12 iPPC 2000, though its 3-phase motor may be heard as clicky at very low spinning, and it has a somehow rougher signature at the highest. Eventually there's the even faster EK Vardar F4-120ER, but I didnt tested it well yet, which should offer enough low emissions under around 1000rpm but lot of airflow above about 1500rpm, so I'd expect a better airflow/noise ratio than most of competitors at the higher speeds.

I'm somewhat a fan of Fractal Design as I have their Node 804 case with 3 x Silent Series R2 fans which sound fine even @ 12v/1000RPM. The HP-12 PWM looks interesting. They seem to cost around €20 each though, which is a little more than I'd like to pay. Noctua always seem reliable, I bought the P12 soon after it was released (along with the S-FLEX, actually) and they still sound as fantastic today as they did many years ago. I'd be very interested in hearing your opinions on the enthusiastically named EK Vardar F4-120ER, after you get to test it further. They seem to be around €20 each again though, which makes me think I should just go for some EOL Gentle Typhoons!

The nice think about the Flex fans is I could snag 2 for about €20 total, and I trust Scythe as a brand after all of their previous successes. Do you have any personal experience with the Grand Flex?

I don't think so, but there's a whole collection of nonsense data in that ranking.

According to them at 7V the Twister Pressure at about 1200rpm has the same noise level of the Noctua S12A & Scythe Slipstream while running around 750rpm... or what about the worst fan noise outcome, 54 dB, from the iPPC 3k at around 1600rpm when the SP120 HP from Corsair at around 1300rpm sits 20dB below that (twenty dB!)...

...summarizing, personally I don't care that test, at all.

Hammy wrote:

The HP-12 PWM looks interesting. They seem to cost around €20 each though, which is a little more than I'd like to pay.

It's an high end fan: it sports the 2nd gen of the original Matsushita FDB bearing, paired with precisely machined blades and an high quality heavy frame, so that it feels so peculiar when you get it in your hand the first times. I paid mines 17.50 euros/each last year, now I see them at 19.50 from the same source (alternate).

Hammy wrote:

I'd be very interested in hearing your opinions on the enthusiastically named EK Vardar F4-120ER, after you get to test it further. They seem to be around €20 each again though, which makes me think I should just go for some EOL Gentle Typhoons!

I paid mine 17 euros/each in december (still their current MSRP) for a watercooling setup now in stand-by state: I don't think I will play with them before next may. The Gentle Typhoon could be an option as well, particularly if you already know them: their noise signature is somehow an hit or miss, here at SPCR some love them and some do not.

Hammy wrote:

The nice think about the Flex fans is I could snag 2 for about €20 total, and I trust Scythe as a brand after all of their previous successes. Do you have any personal experience with the Grand Flex?

I can't help on 2k Grand Flex: the 1,6k I know a bit more were just below-average/mediocre fans in my experience, either the Glidestream or the Slipstream are noticeably better at any speed. But those were low pressure fans, that other one was not.

Said that, I'd add: buy them. Just that. First hand try is always better than anything else: if you need reliable bearings and high airflow, give them a try and, if anything, re-sell them.

It's an high end fan: it sports the 2nd gen of the original Matsushita FDB bearing, paired with precisely machined blades and an high quality heavy frame, so that it feels so peculiar when you get it in your hand the first times. I paid mines 17.50 euros/each last year, now I see them at 19.50 from the same source (alternate).

Thanks for putting me on to the Venturis. I'm 90% decided I'll go for these, although I'm a little concerned an increase of only 400~RPM per fan won't give me the cooling performance that I'm after (I've seen them measured <1700RPM in a couple places). Another concern I have is that I have to jimmy-rig them to the cooler (and possibly to each other) and I don't think those rubber corners will take too kindly to zip ties. Would you say there is enough room to tie something to the corner when the rubber is removed, in those little indentations? It's hard to find a clear picture of the fan with them removed.

I should probably mention the reason I'm doing this is I believe there is something wrong with the header(?) on my Palit Jetstream 970 GTX which caused the stock fan to spike for a second and occasionally just stop while I was gaming. It is supposed to have "0db technology" so that it stops when it's under 60°C which was a main selling point for me, but it often got 'confused' . Still not sure whether it was the fan, header, voltage control, my PSU.. too much faffing involved to investigate it further, so put the previously-mentioned case fans on it which I had laying around.

...I'm a little concerned an increase of only 400~RPM per fan won't give me the cooling performance that I'm after (I've seen them measured <1700RPM in a couple places).

The Akasa Apache 120mm fan is a possible alternative you could consider, it has a good quality Fluid bearing and pushes a lot of air at higher speeds. However its top speed is only 1300 rpm. But there is the Akasa Viper 120mm which is a 1900 rpm version of the Apache and might fit the bill for you. It can also be bought locally. Both are PWM fans. By using the Gelid adapter and a PWM Y cable it would be possible to run a pair of PWM fans from the graphics card PWM header.

The Akasa Apache 120mm fan is a possible alternative you could consider, it has a good quality Fluid bearing and pushes a lot of air at higher speeds. However its top speed is only 1300 rpm. But there is the Akasa Viper 120mm which is a 1900 rpm version of the Apache and might fit the bill for you. It can also be bought locally. Both are PWM fans. By using the Gelid adapter and a PWM Y cable it would be possible to run a pair of PWM fans from the graphics card PWM header.

Hey lodestar, thanks for dropping in! I read what you and the other regulars here post several times a week so it's nice to finally say hi .

The Viper certainly looks like another viable candidate! I'll have to investigate it further. At the moment I'm trying to get my head around PWM fans in general, as I've never used them apart from on CPUs. My motherboard has 4-pin headers but they're not PWM headers as the 4th pin is 'NC'. Am I correct in thinking that a PWM fan on such a header would just run the same as a 3-pin voltage controlled fan? There wouldn't be any risk of screeching/motor damage or such, right?

The HP-12, F4-120ER, and Viper all look suitable. I really hate adding noise to my system, so it's very important for them to behave nicely @600RPM.

EDIT: Just looking at CoolingTechnique's review of the Viper - it seems the actual measured static pressure doesn't correlate to the manufacturer's specs.

There is a YouTube video of the Akasa Venom 120mm under voltage control, and it seems to work perfectly OK. I note that this fan does have a fairly low starting voltage, around 4V. Those 4 pin motherboard fan headers that might or might not support PWM are not really a problem in that a PWM Y adapter cable will work just as well with two fans under voltage control. The main issue with voltage control is that most motherboards start from around 7V which would equate to around 1000 rpm with this fan. Under PWM control the idle speed would be significantly less, around 600 rpm and if the Apache is anything to go by it would be quiet enough for your purposes as this speed. The advantage of using the graphics card PWM header is that the fan speed will be directly related to how hot the GPU is so although a 1900 rpm fan would give the headroom, it might not in practice be necessary for all of it to be used. And the graphics card PWM fan header could be controlled with software separately from anything you are doing with the motherboard fan settings.

EDIT: Just looking at CoolingTechnique's review of the Viper - it seems the actual measured static pressure doesn't correlate to the manufacturer's specs.

I have looked at other fan reviews on CoolingTechnique and in every case their measured static pressure was substantially different to what was being quoted by the manufacturer. So not a significant issue in my view.

<span>There is a [url=<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzJYAekVF-c]YouTube">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzJYAekVF-c]YouTube</a> video of the Akasa Venom 120mm under voltage control[/url], and it seems to work perfectly OK. I note that this fan does have a fairly low starting voltage, around 4V. Those 4 pin motherboard fan headers that might or might not support PWM are not really a problem in that a PWM Y adapter cable will work just as well with two fans under voltage control. The main issue with voltage control is that most motherboards start from around 7V which would equate to around 1000 rpm with this fan. Under PWM control the idle speed would be significantly less, around 600 rpm and if the Apache is anything to go by it would be quiet enough for your purposes as this speed. The advantage of using the graphics card PWM header is that the fan speed will be directly related to how hot the GPU is so although a 1900 rpm fan would give the headroom, it might not in practice be necessary for all of it to be used. And the graphics card PWM fan header could be controlled with software separately from anything you are doing with the motherboard fan settings.</span>

Thanks for the links. I can run the SFF1E and NF-P12 down to 300-400 from 1200-1300RPM before they stall, so I assume my voltage control is quite good (MSI Z97M-G43 FWIW). A few posts up I explain how I believe there's a problem with the voltage regulation/fan header on my GPU, which is why I'm resorting to using normal fan headers.

lodestar wrote:

EDIT: Just looking at CoolingTechnique's review of the Viper - it seems the actual measured static pressure doesn't correlate to the manufacturer's specs. I have looked at other fan reviews on CoolingTechnique and in every case their measured static pressure was substantially different to what was being quoted by the manufacturer. So not a significant issue in my view.

It hardly ever correlates precisely, but in most cases it's within a degree of seperation. In the case of the Viper it's less than 50% of what Akasa claim. To be honest though, I'm still unsure whether the whole static pressure thing is a necessity or another way for companies to over price fans .

As the Viper is similar to the Apache, it should be affected by motor ticking/clicking at low speed, so it mostly depends of how much sensible you are to this kind of issue, and how much it will be noticeable in your specific setup (case, placement, other fans, and so on): something that is not easily to assess "on paper". At high speed they are just loud, as loud the Apache is, but as said about the Grand Flex, increasing fan performances somehow worsen the relevant noise figures/qualities.

Hammy wrote:

EDIT: Just looking at CoolingTechnique's review of the Viper - it seems the actual measured static pressure doesn't correlate to the manufacturer's specs.

Historically Akasa has over rated their fans, though different testing conditions usually apply: so just compare options within the same boundary conditions.

I hope Scythe can improve their design over the Grand Flex for future fan lines (trying to get this thread back on-topic ).

What Scythe needs is to renegotiate with Nidec and do the Gentle Typhoons again, i don't get why try to improve something that was working already, that has a vast amount of fans and that sells as hotcakes even at $20-25 a piece. Still today, people buy them even though the branding is no longer sycths. I think Scythe is a great company that designs a lot of great heatsinks and fans, but letting go their best to me was the worst mistake they have done, the Grandflex is no where near what the GT are.

No picture because it is ugly as a cow and pretty standard stuff for SPCR enthusiasts. I also picked up an Accelero Twin Turbo III to replace the stock cooler. A few observations for anyone coming here from Google or such:

1) The HP-12 are silent to my ears at 600RPM and sound quieter/better than the S-Flex and Noctua at 1200RPM. They are obviously louder at 1800RPM, but not significantly so and their sound 'signature' is quite pleasing. The rubber corners are surprisingly rigid and I could pretty much ignore the fact they are made of rubber for custom mounting purposes. I didn't do it, but it would help things along if you put a small slit in the rubber column running between the two holes as this would allow you to use the top hole only. I would love to see SPCR review these and the HF-12.

2) If you plan on using the backside cooling heatsink from the Twin Turbo III, observing height restrictions carefully is a must. Z97M-G43 motherboard restricts you to using the top PCI-E slot for 16x, which makes using the backside heatsink impossible if you have a large CPU cooler like the Kotetsu. The only way it would fit with this configuration is to rotate the Kotetsu (which I did) and have the CPU fan mounted on the 'top' (which I didn't) either pushing air down or pulling it through. RAM clearance will also be an issue unless you have the 'low-profile' kind. I'll also mention that the cooler fits the Palit Jetstream GTX 970 (short PCB) without infringing on the VRM sink or fan connector - no modification required.

3) Accelero S1 rev 2 won't fit the GTX 970. I'm pretty certain it would provide better cooling than most stock coolers, but the screwholes just don't line up. As I didn't use the Twin Turbo fans or backside heatsink, I essentially paid €50 for an extra heatpipe and mounting plate .

I spent more than I expected to on this little project, but I achieved my goal. Previously, temps during the Witcher 3 touched 84°c; I played last night for 15 minutes ([email protected]) and temps didn't go above 53°c. It almost makes me think the previous heatsink wasn't seated proprerly, or the change from AS5 to GC Extreme helped, or the Arctic cooler is just that good, or the static presssure fans.. or.. or.. I'll leave it to you to decide!

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