And I agree. I've been trying to say this. everyone has been screaming about the survival of DCIE and MOTC and some JLU packs while this 2-pack preorder goes quietly in the night. No one seems to care but it should get more attention.

You're not going to get Granny Goodness and Doomsday in the subscription. You're just not. But a preorder like this could possibly make it possible. People are willing to pay crazy-a#*% prices for rare figures on ebay and custom figures but I wonder if fans are hesitant to pay Mattel crazy-a#*% prices for made-to-order figures for collectors?This 2-pack in a way , was a test. Now they can say "we tried that option, and fans just weren't blah blah"

This would have been a way to do some democracy on Mattycollector. Put 10 character preorders up with thermometers. The ones that make the preorder goal get made. $25.00-30.00 a figure maybe, but people pay those prices anyway. And yeah sure, you have to wait 8 months....could be a problem with prorders and holding money but this could be something to think about. People could get there horses and Talia Al Ghuls and batmobiles and Granny Goodnesses.

The problem with your example is that the only reason these figures were offered at all IS BECAUSE THEY WERE ALREADY TOOLED.

If Mattel were to

Quote:

Put 10 character preorders up with thermometers. The ones that make the preorder goal get made.

using the Superboy/Miss Martian 2packs precedent, then each of those figures would need to already be in the pipeline and tooled for production. Otherwise, the cost would only go up.

I think the better argument, and the more realistic one, is that these figures are starting to reach that point where the cost of production is more than the market is willing to bear. The 6" figure is quickly going to go away as part of my collection simply because I'm not willing to cross that $20 barrier without some major incentives (they diorama bases were that incentive for many, but not for me) and at $50, the Superboy/Miss Martian pack offered less. (Plus, it didn't even "complete the team" in terms of costume cohesion so that worked against many buyers as well)

The price point will, from this point forward, always be the dominant deciding factor for these types of products. That is just going to be the reality.

I'm sorry you aren't getting the figures you want. I really am. I would love for it to be different. I would love for it to be like it was in the 80's when every toy line imaginable could thrive. We just aren't there anymore.

and at this point, I'm much more willing to move on than I am to continue the struggle.

He most definitely hit the nail on the head didn't he SH. This kind of reminds me of a friend of my dad's. He was a freelance illustrator back in the 80's. Well he got so expensive that he cornered himself out of the market. I kind of feel this is what is happening with Mattel(and Matty). I saw Wave 20 at a local Wal Mart lately that had both Zoom and SC Sinestro and I just couldn't pull the trigger at the $17 price point.

The problem with your example is that the only reason these figures were offered at all IS BECAUSE THEY WERE ALREADY TOOLED.

Yeah , no need to shout, I know they are tooled. I'm not some pollyanna here. That's why I said figures would take 8 months+ and be expensive.

I'm not one of these people that are trying TO SAVE THE LINE until infinity. I'm not going to buy all these figures. I'm not paying $20 for these figures anymore. Here and there for the ones I really want. But I think it's an idea that deserves thought just as much as a subscription. I'd rather pay more for figures I do want then have to sell off a Rocket Red that nobody wants to buy on ebay.

I never suggested they replace their entire corporate structure to do this. Maybe just one or two much demanded figures high-tooled figures so the 4H can be employed doing a few exciting things instead of just some new heads. Not a reckless, crazy idea. I don't think I'm the only one here that has seen collectors pay psychotic prices for special things and to fill holes in their collection.

Obviously, retail is a different situation. We all know we're not paying for all this stuff at retail anymore. I'm not. But does that apply to a collector that wants a new special 4H-sculpted Doomsday or Granny Goodness? A special once a year thing? Like Lobo. A special Mattycollector thing? Instead of making us go to San Diego. One special 100% tooled figure a year done Made-To-Order?

The problem with your example is that the only reason these figures were offered at all IS BECAUSE THEY WERE ALREADY TOOLED.

Actually, I don't believe they were tooled, just finished, approved sculpts when the plug was pulled (which is still quite a way into production). I also believe that they would've done much better as two $25 figures instead of one $50 pack but I'm not sure Superboy could've been brought in at $25 as he seems to be about 85%-90% (or more) new parts and MM's almost complete parts re-use would've off-set some of the expense on him. I still believe that we'll see both characters in comic-form in next year's sub should it happen (hopefully with interchangable heads to get the YJ feel).

I feel any time I open my mouth I get shouted at Although I welcome it from some people because they make me laugh... but anyway...

Evidently a minority would be buying these. And since the entire collector world does not frequent these forums we are but a small minority within a minority.

My opinion is these would have sold better if Mattel had them in hand. Okay I know that goes against everything Mattel wants, they want sure sales but hear me out...

Regardless of price... knowing you are going to get something a week or so after you pay for it makes you more inclined to buy it! Say what you will about patience, this is a common human trait. The need to have satisfaction now. I think Mattel dropped the ball by not believing in these main characters.

I bet had it been Batman and Robin which were in this pickle instead of Superboy and Miss Martian that they would have been molded, painted and boxed... ready to ship...

I know it gets old saying it but the main characters of even the shittiest toy lines always sell well and always hold their value on a secondary collector market. Look at the Bionic Six? Does anyone even remember Bionic Six? Or the Centurians? Even the Cthulhu monsters from the Inhumanoids.

But today... not many people can payout for stuff and not have anything to show for it. Some of us can do it... but a lot more of us can't, that's just how the money flows today for a lot of people. Companies need to understand this instead of always trying to buck the flow of the economy.

Sorry if this had been stated before but I wasn't ready through all this so screw all you haters!

funtime3, wasn't intending to be shouting at you. I just did it all caps to emphasize a point. Sorry it was mis-interpreted.

Yeah, there are some items I might be willing to pay a premium for. But I know that those items aren't highly demanded outside of myself. I also know that I'm not overly interested in getting some of the more vocally demanded figures (I'll use Doomsday as an example ... waste of a character much less of a toy in my opinion...).

But even for something like a 100% tooled Granny Goodness (who is VERY HIGH on my personal want list), I'm no longer certain that I would pay the higher price for this figure even if it was a "special occasion, once a year, made to order" type deal.

Yes, I look for "missed" figures on ebay, and yes, I pay more than retail. But after shipping, I generally am still able to get them for less than I would be paying brand new on Matty (I'll offer up my recently acquired YJ Artemis 4" figure that I just got for under $25 shipped as an example).

Now, I LOVE the DCU. LOVE IT. I would truly love to have a figure for all 3000+ characters that have ever seen print under a DC banner, including all the many costume/artistic variants. However, I'm just not willing to pay for them anymore. Its just gotten to that point where I need to make some cutoffs.

Yes, your suggestion does have potential merit. But its not for me. And chances are, this one time, I'm not in the minority.

Like I said before, I wish that things were different. I wish that the arguments we were having were over not being able to afford to buy everything simply because there was too much. The fact that we are all desperately looking for alternative ways to get everything we want speaks volumes of the passion that we all bring to this hobby. It truly is admirable to see and read and hear.

We are approaching the time for critical change. I just hope that the manufacturers approach it more proactively than reactively and so far, I'm not seeing it.

I would be the last person here to ever suggest that Mattel go on some money-losing adventure.

But to say Mattel can't make things unless they have guaranteed sales I have to say what about the 8 inch Staction? They just made that to "test if it would work". Did it work ? I don't know! And, yeah, okay, yes, I know it was: A. Death and B. Cute and C. Artistically nice looking, so they shouldn't have problems selling it to people outside of the hardcore DC Collector community.

But then I have to say what about the Mattycollector Exclusive Green Man Movie Master. They went and made that and they HAD to have known that no one would want a $40 oversized frog, right? (well, except for me. I bought it. but : loose. on ebay)But they made it anyway. And now look where it is. At Ollies for $14.99.

And then I'd have to point to retail where they make quite a bit a stuff that we shake our heads at. Yes, I know, retail is their biggest customer, so , there. But, they're both losing customers when they put out high-priced toy lines that they can't complete, stock, distribute or have little value or make it to stores months after the tv show or movie is released.

So they have this JLU stuff and they can say: if we turn on the machines will you pay $50 a pack? I'm just saying : Is there a step beyond that ? Maybe have a poll? and say if we make these figure made to order are you willing Pay? And by pay , I mean non-refundable. And be non-refundable, I mean maybe give them a 2week refund period maybe.

The blog post said "Bad for Collectors" so I don't know what the point is bring up a Wave 20 Zoom figure peg-warming at some store. Zoom is practically a repaint. I saw the SDCC Matty panel video. When they showed the Wally West, there was like, 2 people clapping. DCIE is not going to last long with repaints and a rejected retail figures. I'm just saying, after it's over, what if they try to find a solution for these mythical 100% tooled figures. Maybe Made-to-Order is it? Crazy?

And to bring it back to the 2-pack . It didn't sell. But I think it was a lot of things, not just that crazy price. People probably didn't buy it because of the cartoony faces; the costume wasn't their favorite; bitterness over the Mattel or not having Kid Flash, No extra stuff for the price. It was probably all those things.

I'm not naive. I know people don't have money for stuff anymore. I don't. But It's clear some have lots of money for their collections. And as long as Mattel has the DC license they might as well use it.

Why not a DC Deluxe? Something that looks like Marvel Select. Pre-pay them to work on a couple large, highly tooled figures? Like Doomsday or Granny Goodness for example. Who doesn't want to see the 4 Horsemen flex their creative muscles instead of just doing heads and extra details like belts and stuff. Maybe 2 or 3 a year. Yes, I'm aware of schedules and all that. logistics, etc.

Plain & simple the prices to me at retail for figures have become completely out of hand. The prices on Matty are even worse, plus the tax & shipping. I would have been paying over $60 for these 2 figures. It's just not worth it to me. As a matter of fact, I agree with bnjmnrlyr, at $17 retail, I am not going to be buying many 6 inch figures anymore. These things are made out of plastic, not sterling silver. Superboy, I didn't want & MM is in the wrong costume who wants that? Mattel totally screwed up here with the season 2 costume selection. They dropped the ball just like they have many times in the past. I'm not going to pay for Mattel's blunders anymore. I bought multiple Stripes, 3 packs that I didn't want, & the 7 packs, just in hopes for them to release the final figures that I actually did desire. All for them to tell me NO, they didn't sell fast enough so we're shutting it down. Then months later they decide to release the figures anyway. So all the money I wasted buying crap I didn't want to " keep the line going " didn't matter anyway. You know why? Because Mattel had those figures tooled & molds made already. The didn't want to waste that money they put into that. They weren't doing us a favor like they claim. They did it so they didn't waste money & they knew they could take advantage of us the collector by charging us an outrageous price! I know you are saying " Oh they are unreleased figures. " No they are not! They are only a year or so old. I consider a missle launching Boba Fett from the 70's an unreleased figures.

Here's the thing, this isn't the 70's or the 80's anymore. Where when a line was ending & retailers didn't want to carry it anymore there was no way to reach the public/collectors that really want them. The figures just never got produced. Now in this day of the internet, companies like Mattel can reach out to the diehard collectors via Matty or forums like these & work a deal to get the last of the line to us. Do you really think bitd Kenner wanted to waste money on tooling & molds never to be able to release those figures? The only outlet they had to reach the public was at retail. If stores didn't want to carry a line anymore that was it. Now collecting is obviously a totally different world. Mattel takes full advantage of this situation to make even more money off us. I'm tired of wasting money & paying outrageous prices for their mistakes.

As for your example with ebay. I really disagree when people bring that up. " Collector's are will to pay high prices for rare pieces & not rare figures that Mattel would produce " That statement is so wrong. Ok since Mattel wants to play games & won't tell us a number on what " they need to sell " at any point for it to go through, I am just going to throw out numbers as examples. These are not actual figures or representations, just examples.....

Let's say Mattel needed to sell 1000 pieces of this YJ set for it to become viable for the presale to go through. OK, that obviously didn't happen. So by funtime's statement if prototypes were to go on ebay they would sell for 100's or 1000's of dollars. Which is most likely true. So his statement is, why not just by them from Mattel for $60 now? This theory is so far fetched! Because I bet the people that bid on prototypes on ebay, didn't hesitate to put up their $60 but it didn't matter. Here's why? If you looked at those ebay auctions for the JLU Firefly for example that went for over a thousand bucks. First of all their was only 20 or so bids to get it up to that price. Some of them were multiple bids from the same ebay user that was determined to win & got outbid. Those say..... 15 people that were willing to pay any amount for that figure are not the majority. It's such a small percentage that they don't even count in any overall equation. Not even close to the 1000 or so number that Mattel needs to have to get to for the presales to go through. Those are people with way too much money & collect toys, a very small minority. I would never pay $1000 for a toy that was made today. As you see they technically wasted that money anyway because now we are getting those same exact figures & not paying 100's or 1000's a piece. But still most of us are just working stiffs & lets face it times are tough & this economy sucks right now. These prices that they are charging on Matty plus tax & shipping is still even going to turn a lot of people away from buying things.