EVENTS

Name that fruit

The Reading University Atheist, Humanist and Secularist Society yesterday received an “official warning” from the Student Union, which will be on record until the end of spring term provided they “watch their behavior” – which presumably means they name no more fruits “Mohammed,” neither pears nor grapes nor papayas.

Incidentally, what happened to the days when Universities were places of rambunctious and spirited debate about ideas and ideologies? Back 30 years ago (mumbles to self) I recall some fairly heated debates around the student union and certainly some groups got it in the neck for holding or expressing certain views. The difference was that the Students Union never actually censured or warned groups for their ideas.

I suspect if someone had tried to start a hate group, that would have been different, but this sort of thing… nah.

Don’t get me wrong I’m all for being respectful of people, but ideas are up for debate. Sometimes a rose needs to be called a rose and sometimes a spade needs to be called a fuckin’ shovel.

Excuse any mangling of literary sensibilities.

I expect that the Muslim group(s) at Reading would be outraged by a piece of fruit named Mohammed. But the SU censoring a rationalist group for mocking irrational beliefs at a University – the wrongs start piling up waist deep. The SU needs to be presented with a pineapple and a gentle suggestion as to where to put it.

This is so rideculous. Mohammed is a common name among Muslims. There is even a famous American Boxer by that name. Jesus (hay-zeus) is common among hispanics. There is a doctor at the hospital where I work that is named Mohammed. I bet that apple was named after him.

“Incidentally, what happened to the days when Universities were places of rambunctious and spirited debate about ideas and ideologies? Back 30 years ago (mumbles to self) I recall some fairly heated debates around the student union and certainly some groups got it in the neck for holding or expressing certain views. The difference was that the Students Union never actually censured or warned groups for their ideas”

What happened? Universities became businesses, students became customers – and stakeholders – and education became a product. Now ideas are simply non-existent, because they don’t fit in the whole corporate structure. If they aren’t ‘relevant’ to the ‘student’s chosen career path’, they aren’t important. So when someone starts to discuss ideas, and those ideas are outside the corporate mainstream, or are objected to by a consumer/stakeholder (nee: student), they are no longer to be tolerated because they are bad for business.

For instance: I teach environmental science in a red state, and the administration prefers I not point out the environmental impacts of anything the students hold dear: cars, agriculture, eating meat, wearing clothes, buying more shit than you can stuff in an oversized house plus garage, shooting everything that moves, driving ATVs over fragile ecosystems, or enforcing environmental regulations. Not to mention overpopulation. If I followed corporate tendencies and didn’t offfend the stakeholders, my class would consist of hello, students, everyone just got an A. (I’m not very good at conforming to corporate expectations – yes, we actually hear that phrase – on a college campus, of all places).

Ideas? Free speech? Free speech is know demarcated into its own limited zone, and you are expected not to say anything that will offend students or administration. Makes conversation rather boring, IMHO. If you are never offended, you will never be educated, because you will never have your assumptions challenged. Even by a pineapple.

iknklast, that has a very depressing ring of truth to it. I was afraid that was the case. I now feel very depressed and am about to start drinking. Actually it’s friday evening here so to be fair I was going to start drinking anyway.

Incidentally, what happened to the days when Universities were places of rambunctious and spirited debate about ideas and ideologies? Back 30 years ago (mumbles to self)

What happened is that universities were pressured to put a stop to ‘high spirited’ student activities that tended to demean, denigrate, or threaten minority groups of students. It might be hilarious to some members of the rugby club to leave packets of bacon outside the Jewish Soc’s rooms every week, for example, while others would think it was intended to intimidate or ridicule Jews (even though there is nothing necessarily wrong with bacon, and you or I might find it pleasant to receive a free gift of it). So the authorities said no and freedom of speech had to struggle on as best it could. Some people think this hasn’t gone far enough. Many women’s groups, for example, think that there are not firm enough restrictions on what some students say and do on university premises, using university facilities. I often agree with them.

If you are never offended, you will never be educated, because you will never have your assumptions challenged.

Sadly true, iknklast, and to stray slightly off topic for a minute, evident in other areas. Broadcasters are now editing “difficult” vocabulary out of their programmes because listeners may not understand them. The acceptance of non-advancement. A society that has ground to a halt.

@17: and if the Jewish Soc demanded that all bacon be removed from the university, they would have gone too far. Likewise, when an Islamic society demands the removal of fruit named “Mohammed” from other people’s stalls, they have gone too far.

Timon, I sincerely doubt that an Atheist, Secularist and Humanist society’s actions would have been crude and offensive for the sake of offending.

If they didn’t want to offend or belittle anyone, why did they do it? I mean, do they usually name pieces of fruit and display them at Fresher’s Fairs? Did they just pull the name ‘Mohammad’ out of the hat?

And I wonder how many of the Muslims who were at that fair came from under-represented, low income immigrant families compared to the members of the secular society. What’s your guess? Should we just ignore that kind of power disparity? I always find the spectacle of powerful people mocking and/or intimidating weak ones ugly. Why not have a rule that nobody at Fresher’s Fairs are allowed to use their stall to mock, belittle, or attack anyone else at the fair … oh, hang on …

@24: please note that it is only in the fevered imaginations of the Ismalic society that the pineapple is a reference to the Prophet Mohammed. The goal of the ASH society was to point out that Islamic groups, under cover of precisely the ludicrously exaggerated sensitivity to religious claims that you are displaying, are claiming the right to prevent anything at all being called “Mohammed”, even if it’s a piece of fruit. Point made.