There's more to defence than not missing a tackle, if guys are carrying you on their back for 5m or players are getting offloads away then you're not defending well It doesn't matter if you don't miss a tackle.
I'm not saying that this is happening with Liddle all the time just pointing out to not get caught up in stats.

I'm hearing "he'll be better next year" but I'm not hearing any reasons why and so far I'm not seeing any reasons to be so sure that he will be better next year.

To those of you saying that he'll be better, are you just hoping he will?
How confident are you and why, convince me because all i've heard so far is he'll get better when he gains some beef but beef is just beef it doesn't make you a better player.

Impossible to convince you, its clear youve got it in for Liddle for whatever reason, did he snub you at an autograph session or somethin?
This really sounds personal

He should improve by next year having another seasons experience under his belt, he is after all only 20 and still a kid, another off season where he can add to his still growing body...he'll have a better pack around working off clearys own staff hopefully with an improved defence which will make things easier for the entire team

your go

I agree with Ink. TiGER, appreciate youve started a thread and had a say, but mate, you asked for others to comment. You cant just shoot everyone down because they share a different view.

Please point out where I shot someone down.
I just pointed out that no one was actually giving any reasons other than 'he'll be better next year'.

A few have given reasons why he may develop into a fine hooker, but thats the beauty of sport, there are no guarantees...so you may be disappointed if its convincing youre after

When would you expect Liddle to handle 80 minutes as a hooker in FG at his age? I would like to think early 2018 after another preseason and the rest of 2017 seeing decent minutes.

Well that's part of my concern too, how long do we wait to find out if he's the 9 that we require to take us where we need to be?
We can't keep waiting for these players with "potential" from what I've seen he's potential is limited anyway.
I just think it's an important position and we can't afford to gamble on it which is what I feel we're doing with Liddle, do we have a cash out option?
When should we think about using it?

a hooker that is reasonably unnoticeable at 20 years old is a good thing in my opinion. That means he's got a good foundation (which he does - nice service, can kick and can run) but needs to improve some of the more flashy things that makes you a top 5-10 hooker in the comp. once he is more smart and confident over the next year or two i reckon you'll start seeing far more quantity of good runs and nice short kicks in their 20.

is there anyone really beating down the door to take his spot as a forward that will significantly bolster our team? if so, maybe he needs some more time in reggies and another full off season to develop. if not, dont see any harm in giving him more experience

''Everybody talks about their four brothers, we have 17 here so we don't really care about them."

I wonder if he does develop into a fine player whether he will stay. Or are we just developing more players for the benefit of other clubs. And in the meantime fans have to endure watching developing players hence our current position.

Patience please. If you were a young hooker, would you prefer to debut behind the Sharks' pack or the Tigers' pack? Similar situation to Suli and Cotric from the Raiders except Suli has been thrown into the centre position while Cotric remains on the wing.

Cleary is building a team with talented youngsters surrounded by hard headed players. Do you believe Reynolds will allow any of these youngsters to go? I think there will be a renewed emphasis on team spirit and team work rather than three individuals as we have had in the past.

Look I'm not sold on liddle just yet....I don't see anything wrong with him playing out the season in the reggies. First grade is very poisonous ATM especially for our rookies and besides we need another big body in the 17.

When would you expect Liddle to handle 80 minutes as a hooker in FG at his age? I would like to think early 2018 after another preseason and the rest of 2017 seeing decent minutes.

Well that's part of my concern too, how long do we wait to find out if he's the 9 that we require to take us where we need to be?
We can't keep waiting for these players with "potential" from what I've seen he's potential is limited anyway.
I just think it's an important position and we can't afford to gamble on it which is what I feel we're doing with Liddle, do we have a cash out option?
When should we think about using it?

Again I'll ask ...Why would Cleary extend his contract whilst already under contract if he was to be cashed out...?

What should Liddle be doing that he is not doing now...?

Ivan's Laws

1. You are either on the Bus or you are off..
2. The Star of the Team is the Team
3. Be the player your teammates want to play with..

When would you expect Liddle to handle 80 minutes as a hooker in FG at his age? I would like to think early 2018 after another preseason and the rest of 2017 seeing decent minutes.

Well that's part of my concern too, how long do we wait to find out if he's the 9 that we require to take us where we need to be?
We can't keep waiting for these players with "potential" from what I've seen he's potential is limited anyway.
I just think it's an important position and we can't afford to gamble on it which is what I feel we're doing with Liddle, do we have a cash out option?
When should we think about using it?

Again I'll ask ...Why would Cleary extend his contract whilst already under contract if he was to be cashed out...?

What should Liddle be doing that he is not doing now...?

Liddle is doing fine. He is young. Once he finds his feet in the top grade he will be a stand out. I know we've had some potential let us down in the past but gee, the kid has just started and hasn't even had time to prove his worth and we already have people calling him a risk. Just relax and give him the opportunity to show what he can do. The year has gone anyway

People just love to read negatively into things, I'm not having a go at Liddle!!!!!! I understand he's young and he's doing his best, I'm just concerned that we get to this point in the season next year and we're still saying the same about him.
What if he doesn't develop into the player you've already created in your heads?
Will we have the cash to go looking for a top no 9?
Then there's the injury period that he hasn't hit yet which all young players seem to cop and you'd think with his frame and playing in the middle is inevitable. I just don't want to get all these new faces here only to be held back waiting for a kid who may or may not be what we need, especially in such a vital position. It's not as if he's got a world class halves pairing to take control when he needs them to either.

The problem for Liddle is the overall fitness of the team. Liddle's value is the ability to run through tired forward packs - problem is though, this occurs towards the end of each half which is when we seem to be awfully tired. Hence, he is surrounded by incredibly unfit forwards and is unable to produce his running game.

Both the Dragons match and the first half against the Roosters indicates that Cleary is getting some messages across with regard to defensive structures and ball control. The issue is fitness - once we get tired or under stress, all those structures fade away.

Patience please. If you were a young hooker, would you prefer to debut behind the Sharks' pack or the Tigers' pack? Similar situation to Suli and Cotric from the Raiders except Suli has been thrown into the centre position while Cotric remains on the wing.

I agree, and even so, Melbourne targeted Brailey heavily last weekend, to good effect.

He's missing 2 tackles a game. For a young hooker that's not too bad, especially given the pack he's playing in and his inside and outside men are often no offering much in the way of support. It's much easier to defend when those around you are competent at doing their job.

He's quick, has a good passing game and is very determined. One of his strengths is his cover defense. When a break is made he's usually the first or second man back. When Teddy got sin binned against the broncs it was completely unnecessary as Liddle was there and others were coming on side too.

I like this in a player, especially a youngster. The willingness to do whatever it takes to win. So many are lazy and just turn and jog back but he'll scramble and out his body on the line to make the tackle or get back in the line.

Cherrington was all flash and no gritt. Liddle has both. Made over 40 tackles a few weeks ago when he played extended mins. Still only missed a few. He'd also be the equal quickest player in the club over 40m. Get him a dominant pack and watch him go, especially when he should be about 90kgs next season as his body fills out.

He's missing 2 tackles a game. For a young hooker that's not too bad, especially given the pack he's playing in and his inside and outside men are often no offering much in the way of support. It's much easier to defend when those around you are competent at doing their job.

He's quick, has a good passing game and is very determined. One of his strengths is his cover defense. When a break is made he's usually the first or second man back. When Teddy got sin binned against the broncs it was completely unnecessary as Liddle was there and others were coming on side too.

I like this in a player, especially a youngster. The willingness to do whatever it takes to win. So many are lazy and just turn and jog back but he'll scramble and out his body on the line to make the tackle or get back in the line.

Cherrington was all flash and no gritt. Liddle has both. Made over 40 tackles a few weeks ago when he played extended mins. Still only missed a few. He'd also be the equal quickest player in the club over 40m. Get him a dominant pack and watch him go, especially when he should be about 90kgs next season as his body fills out.

Absolutely spot on BB - This kid is a winner, not a maybe - why people want to put him in reggies? Put most of the pack there before him, they may acquire some of Liddle's commitment.

Patience please. If you were a young hooker, would you prefer to debut behind the Sharks' pack or the Tigers' pack? Similar situation to Suli and Cotric from the Raiders except Suli has been thrown into the centre position while Cotric remains on the wing.

Cleary is building a team with talented youngsters surrounded by hard headed players. Do you believe Reynolds will allow any of these youngsters to go? I think there will be a renewed emphasis on team spirit and team work rather than three individuals as we have had in the past.

The problem for Liddle is the overall fitness of the team. Liddle's value is the ability to run through tired forward packs - problem is though, this occurs towards the end of each half which is when we seem to be awfully tired. Hence, he is surrounded by incredibly unfit forwards and is unable to produce his running game.

Both the Dragons match and the first half against the Roosters indicates that Cleary is getting some messages across with regard to defensive structures and ball control. The issue is fitness - once we get tired or under stress, all those structures fade away.

If we are so unfit( and we are , and have been for awhile) what was Taylor being paid for during the last off season, it looks like it certainly wasn't money well spent.
There's NO excuse for an NRL team being unfit, different thing if it's injuries, but not general fitness. There should have been a fecund for the last off season.

God I hope we don't constantly hear how we are training the house down again during next off season. It's been done to death.
Idris was a perfect example. Possibly still on our books . Must be the slowest back or forward in the game