Mike and Marco seemed to have the best chemistry with the band both musically and personally. A bummer about the sound during Derek's spot - made it impossible to get a decent comparison on the vids. It goes without saying that they're all scary hot players.

Interesting that DT wanted the candidates to play Mike P's parts but didn't tell them beforehand. I'm guessing it was part of the test - to see who'd pick up on the need to give the fans what they want.

For personal chemistry, it still looks like Mike ... they're after a "family member".

With interviews it's well-known that going first and last makes you more memorable. Downside when that you're first is sometimes the interviewers are yet to get into their stride. It didn't seem that way for Mike so that was way in his favour. Downside of going last is interview fatigue, if there are lots of candidates. Second and in the middle are the worst spots from what I've seen.

Most Sucessfull bands will want to hear the Original Part and allow for each drummers interpretitation,so long as it does not get too far away from the idea

As far as the "playing it like the original" aspect, I too was struck by that statement as odd, given Jordan has never fully stuck to Kevin or Derek's keyboard parts, and Mike Portnoy often said he improvised so much in the studio that live he didn't play the same fills as the record.

So I re-watched it again last night, and what Jordan said was not that it has to the note for note like the original, but it has to have the "feel" of the original.

Not at all....actually it was quite the opposite. I was really comfortable around them and with the "process".

I have a gut feeling that something more musically 'in tune' with you will knock at your door. I think you made a great choice in auditioning with DT because you got to jam with them and more importantly that scores of other bands will be watching this audition process. It's almost a certainty that the right group for you will be knocking soon!

Well, just got a reply back about the audio and shortage of footage on this Documentary.

Rick Ernst
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"Good ear my friend! See below

Yes it's camera audio. The logic session was corrupt. Maddi and Paul tried everything they could but were unsuccessful. We even gave Paul a multitrack of all of our camera audio from all mics... He took a stab at it but didn't make much difference. There was nothing anyone could do to make that section sound much better :-/

Over the Edge Productions"

So apparently...that effected how much "view time" I got overall.
Oh well.....it was a lot of fun. Haha.

D

Cool to see you got the Audition it must feel good to big in with the BIG boys
you are the 1st Exteme drrummer to Elevate to the next level congrats/
....
They also liked your blast..
Tim

Mike posted this on his website not too long ago: (New "Mike Mangini" and "Rhythm Knowledge" sites will hopefully be coming in May.) Is it just a coincidence that two new sites will be launched so close to the announcement of Dream Theater's new drummer announcement? I think not!! Mike is Dream Theater's new drummer. Having met him some years ago I can honestly say he is one of the friendliest, sharing, and dynamic drummers around.

What they didn't show (from all of the drummers) and, I knew they wouldn't....

Was when us drummers threw out some complex and confusing stuff to see what THEY would do with it.
In my case.... I threw out a layered rhythm (2 over 3) and not a one of them had any idea what to do with it. Haha.

But, you know they aren't going to show that! Haha.

This is a really important point, I think, regarding the "competition" element involved here.
The player who best fits this particular band's idea of the ideal drummer gets the gig. The guy who gets hired for this gig may not be the best fit for some other band, and the guy who doesn't get some other gig might be the best fit for this one.

Everyone who ever tries out for a gig and doesn't get it, or gets fired from a gig, should keep this thought in the foreground.

This is a really important point, I think, regarding the "competition" element involved here.
The player who best fits this particular band's idea of the ideal drummer gets the gig. The guy who gets hired for this gig may not be the best fit for some other band, and the guy who doesn't get some other gig might be the best fit for this one.

Everyone who ever tries out for a gig and doesn't get it, or gets fired from a gig, should keep this thought in the foreground.

@ Derek: holy crap man, 100 snakes? And they are phytons, so I (ignorantly) assume they are not venomous, so again I (ignorantly) assume you don't use them for anti-venom extraction...so, out of curiosity, how the heck do you make money with these snakes? (just plainly curious)

@ everyone else: did you guys see the part where Petrucci said he went on Forums to find out about drummers, and that's how he found Land, and others, etc? I thought these guys, being the the kick ass musicians that they are, touring around the world, etc, they would know all about all the best drummers out there. But no, they had to do what any mortal would do, like myself when I started drumming 6 months ago: come in here and hear all about Thomas Lang, JoJo mayer, etc.

Speaking of that, chances are Petrucci was on this very site, reading your very words, and our very threads about what we thought went down when Portnoy left, and who we thought should replace him. THAT'S A TRIP!!!!!!

__________________
"Rush has been shaking their bottle for 30 years and there is still sauce coming out!" - Jack Black

Mostly I was caught by the reference made by Petrucci that they picked up on interest in Lange from forums. I've always felt that more people read these things than care to admit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by haroldo_psf

@ everyone else: did you guys see the part where Petrucci said he went on Forums to find out about drummers, and that's how he found Land, and others, etc? I thought these guys, being the the kick ass musicians that they are, touring around the world, etc, they would know all about all the best drummers out there. But no, they had to do what any mortal would do, like myself when I started drumming 6 months ago: come in here and hear all about Thomas Lang, JoJo mayer, etc.

I mentioned in another thread Dream Theater were one of the first bands to really embrace the internet.

Back in the mid-90's, when most people were still on dial up and using AOL, you could actually go on AOL to their Dream Theater board and post back and forth with Portnoy, Derek Sherinian, Mike's sister, and their former vocalist Charlie Dominici. Everyone in the band had an AOL account, so you know they all read what was being said, even if not every member posted.

I remember the first time Portnoy replied to a post I made! I had made a comment about Mike being slightly off at the start of one of their songs the night before, and he replied I was indeed correct, that his monitor had gone out right then and he couldn't hear the song intro. At the time, I was pretty floored the band could be do down to earth to just chat with fans like that online.

So, it really doesn't surprise me Petrucci would use forums to find information.

People complain about WFD, but here you have Mike competing for one of the hottest thrones around.

Not just Mike...Minneman was also briefly in it. He's still ranked 25th. Lange had serious thoughts too...bought the Drumometer and everything. Back in the day a bunch of the top technicians were involved. But that was another time.

My guess: after seeing all these overskilled drummers - judged by laymen - what a shame - and to satisfy all the airdrummers out there, who want the original licks: Mike Portnoy gives a comeback finally very soon...

My guess: after seeing all these overskilled drummers - judged by laymen - what a shame - and to satisfy all the airdrummers out there, who want the original licks: Mike Portnoy gives a comeback finally very soon...

Bernhard

I found that odd too.

On the one hand they are looking for a new drummer, a new family member, and on the other, they want the drummer who sounds like Portnoy the most.

Mangini happens to come closest to the requirement so far ( imo ) , but when they talked about Lanf & Vigril doing some interpretation, which I foolishly thought was a good thing, they made it sound like a negative.

I thought all music was interpretive. Even classical, which is interpreted by a conductor. Obviously I dont understand this genre.

My guess: after seeing all these overskilled drummers - judged by laymen - what a shame - and to satisfy all the airdrummers out there, who want the original licks: Mike Portnoy gives a comeback finally very soon...

Bernhard

Thanks for posting the individual drummers so I don't have to stream the whole 22 minutes.

Not just Mike...Minneman was also briefly in it. He's still ranked 25th. Lange had serious thoughts too...bought the Drumometer and everything. Back in the day a bunch of the top technicians were involved. But that was another time.

I didn't know that about Minnemann, though excessive speed is not his thing. But when he does those poly-rhythms that is another story. He really composes solos for the drum set like he's writing a piece of classical music. I guess he's German after all. Now if you're going to tell me he improvises those things, I really be impressed.:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by aydee

I found that odd too.

On the one hand they are looking for a new drummer, a new family member, and on the other, they want the drummer who sounds like Portnoy the most.

Mangini happens to come closest to the requirement so far ( imo ) , but when they talked about Lang & Vigil doing some interpretation, which I foolishly thought was a good thing, they made it sound like a negative.

I thought all music was interpretive. Even classical, which is interpreted by a conductor. Obviously I don't understand this genre.

...

That is the thing that I grew weary of with prog, and then a really found jazz. Many of the progressive rock bands prided themselves on improvisation. But by and large, if you had heard their latest live album, or heard them on the King Biscuit Flower Hour, the upcoming show did not differentiate much. So maybe you're giving us a little insight into why Mike Portnoy is a bit tired. His creative mind needs to be kept flowing in new directions.

These guys are not getting any younger. Jordan Rudess is in his mid-50s, and it seems that they have some new ideas that can't wait. Five years in the life of a singer pushing 50 is a lifetime. You see guys doing this in their 60s; but when you talking about heavy metal singing, it's something best left for the young with a few exceptions here and there.

... what a shame - and to satisfy all the airdrummers out there, who want the original licks

Quote:

Originally Posted by aydee

I found that odd too.

On the one hand they are looking for a new drummer, a new family member, and on the other, they want the drummer who sounds like Portnoy the most.

... they talked about Lanf(just twisting the knife :) & Vigril doing some interpretation, which I foolishly thought was a good thing, they made it sound like a negative.

I thought all music was interpretive. Even classical, which is interpreted by a conductor. Obviously I dont understand this genre.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deltadrummer

So maybe you're giving us a little insight into why Mike Portnoy is a bit tired. His creative mind needs to be kept flowing in new directions.

Yes, but we're talking about the music business. People pay big money for their expectations to be met. They love the old DT standards and they're hanging out to hear the hero fill at the end of the bridge or whatever. To mess with it would almost be akin to Phil Collins improvising the signature fill of In the Air. No one's going to mess with the da-da-da-das in Beethoven's 5th either. To avid fans I expect those MP parts are simply part of the song.

Thing is, while the situation isn't perfect, it's not as though the band's playing hoary old standards by rote - they are making a good living playing complex, exciting non-standard music which no doubt gives them a huge buzz. How many musos have the chance to stretch out like that and make good money these days? After all, many play money beat variations for their supper and often without variation between versions as well.

This would be an incredible gig for drummers with an appetite for prog metal and the facility to handle it, even if they are required to retain the essence of MP's parts. No doubt they'll have much more freedom with new songs.

Thing is, while the situation isn't perfect, it's not as though the band's playing hoary old standards by rote - they are making a good living playing complex, exciting non-standard music which no doubt gives them a huge buzz. How many musos have the chance to stretch out like that and make good money these days? After all, many play money beat variations for their supper and often without variation between versions as well.

I should add that playing money beats for your supper is pretty good fate in itself. No doubt better in many ways than sitting in an office doing dry numbers stuff in cold aircon. That highlights what a rare opportunity this is for the right kind of player. No wonder someone like Mike Mangler is so excited!

Yes, and playing "money beat" isn't as boring as it may seem, because every song, even
every measure can feel different and create excitement. Every stroke is as much a challenge
as playing complex patterns and licks.
I know that ie. Virigl Donuti has no problem playing two and fours, and I suppose Mic Mancini
hasn't either, although they both shine most when they can do what they do best.

Yes, but we're talking about the music business. People pay big money for their expectations to be met. They love the old DT standards and they're hanging out to hear the hero fill at the end of the bridge or whatever. To mess with it would almost be akin to Phil Collins improvising the signature fill of In the Air. No one's going to mess with the da-da-da-das in Beethoven's 5th either. To avid fans I expect those MP parts are simply part of the song.

Thing is, while the situation isn't perfect, it's not as though the band's playing hoary old standards by rote - they are making a good living playing complex, exciting non-standard music which no doubt gives them a huge buzz. How many musos have the chance to stretch out like that and make good money these days? After all, many play money beat variations for their supper and often without variation between versions as well.

This would be an incredible gig for drummers with an appetite for prog metal and the facility to handle it, even if they are required to retain the essence of MP's parts. No doubt they'll have much more freedom with new songs.

On the one hand they are looking for a new drummer, a new family member, and on the other, they want the drummer who sounds like Portnoy the most.

Mangini happens to come closest to the requirement so far ( imo ) , but when they talked about Lanf & Vigril doing some interpretation, which I foolishly thought was a good thing, they made it sound like a negative.
...

Mangini is good enough to sound like all of the above. Every drummer so far has been capable of the music, no doubt about that. It's now down to silly things like style and image.

Yes, but we're talking about the music business. People pay big money for their expectations to be met. They love the old DT standards and they're hanging out to hear the hero fill at the end of the bridge or whatever. To mess with it would almost be akin to Phil Collins improvising the signature fill of In the Air. No one's going to mess with the da-da-da-das in Beethoven's 5th either. To avid fans I expect those MP parts are simply part of the song..

Yes, and as Bernard said, people have a penchant for air drumming the signature fills in Dream Theater songs. Dream Theater is a cult band, and many of the fans are loyal and probably have spend weeks worth of time listening to the CDs.

I just did a clinic om early rock n roll and a big part of my presentation was grooves and where they came from. I talk about the Tommy Igoe stuff and a lot of drummers including prominent ones say, "how can you play the same beat over and over?"

Hope you guys will like the last episode. Regardless of what everybody thinks of this "documentary" I myself have enjoyed it A LOT!!! Sure some parts are overly dramatic but I think it's entertaining. Also personally I've enjoyed every second of watching the other drummers audition since I'm a huge fan of all of them!

I always tell my students how great the drumming community is and that everybody help each other out and share their drumming knowledge. It just makes me a bit sad to see some bashers that have to complain. Then, don't watch! Let's keep the drumming community free from the hater like Youtube people. We just have to face the fact that each and everyone are allowed to have their own taste!

Derek, soo cool of you posting, great to see your point! Keep on inspiring all these drummers out there!!! Loved your playing on "The spirit carries on"! :)

Hope you guys will like the last episode. Regardless of what everybody thinks of this "documentary" I myself have enjoyed it A LOT!!! Sure some parts are overly dramatic but I think it's entertaining. Also personally I've enjoyed every second of watching the other drummers audition since I'm a huge fan of all of them!

I always tell my students how great the drumming community is and that everybody help each other out and share their drumming knowledge. It just makes me a bit sad to see some bashers that have to complain. Then, don't watch! Let's keep the drumming community free from the hater like Youtube people. We just have to face the fact that each and everyone are allowed to have their own taste!

Derek, soo cool of you posting, great to see your point! Keep on inspiring all these drummers out there!!! Loved your playing on "The spirit carries on"! :)

50 minutes.... :)

Cheers,
Peter Wildoer

I don't see it as a documentary, but more of a showcase on how some of the greatest drummers in the world tackle professional situations. I would really like extended versions with everything that was played(jam sessions, playing through the songs etc), and without the small-talk and LaBrie telling every drummer how great they are :P.

One thing that no one has brought up is the ad placement for mascara... they DO realize that the fan base for Dream Theater is like 95% male (if not higher) right? And, it's not like the fan base is predispositioned to wear goth makeup.

*Shrugs* I don't know, it just struck me as funny that the vast majority of people watching these auditions, documentary, showcase, whatever you want to call it is going to be male and NOT into wearing makeup. Poor ad placement unless some guy is going to be shopping with his wife and suggests she try the new mascara based on the product placement in a DT documentary LOL.

Hope you guys will like the last episode. Regardless of what everybody thinks of this "documentary" I myself have enjoyed it A LOT!!! Sure some parts are overly dramatic but I think it's entertaining. Also personally I've enjoyed every second of watching the other drummers audition since I'm a huge fan of all of them!

I always tell my students how great the drumming community is and that everybody help each other out and share their drumming knowledge. It just makes me a bit sad to see some bashers that have to complain. Then, don't watch! Let's keep the drumming community free from the hater like Youtube people. We just have to face the fact that each and everyone are allowed to have their own taste!

Derek, soo cool of you posting, great to see your point! Keep on inspiring all these drummers out there!!! Loved your playing on "The spirit carries on"! :)

50 minutes.... :)

Cheers,
Peter Wildoer

I agree with you completely. This is all good entertaining fun. None of the drummers were hurt during the making of this tryout. :) Drumming is supposed to be fun. If you can make money doing it than all the more power to you. Most of us can't. Not real money anyways. Lets all agree to disagree on stuff. It is not worth going as far as hurting someones feelings over. I need to remember this personally. I can be very opinionated at times. :)

Minnemann is out of the race. He posted it on his Facebook page but then removed the post shortly after that. Just read that on a german Forum.

I believe it must be either Aquiles Priest or Mike Mangini. My money would be on Aquiles, allthough I don't really like his drumming in general, he seems to be a perfect fit for the band. His playing is almost exactly like Portnoys which seems to be what the band is after.

Well seeing how happy he was that he got the job, I would say that the right man won. I have gained a new respect for the guys in the band as well. They really carry themselves quite well. That goes a long way for me. That was a fun ride. Too bad it is over.

Down to the two freaks of nature and the almost unkown Peter Wildoer. I see great things in your future, Peter :-)

Many congrats to Mangini. I look forward to seeing what he brings to the table on the next album. Hopefully the boys will let him do his thing and not tell him what to play any more than they would have when Portnoy was behind the kit.

I really thought Mangini was the right guy almost from the minute I saw him play with them on the first episode. He just has the right flavor of intensity - almost like a Bozzio from 25 or 30 years ago. Also, he was really mental about it as Matt pointed out - there was nothing tepid or half way in his mental approach or preparation. The chemistry was just there, too - he owned those guys from the minute he walked into the room: he was gracious, familiar, honest, and just immediately likable. Then there was his jaw-dropping drumming. I like him better than Portnoy to be honest.

They really milked the concept of a replacement drummer, and I thoroughly enjoyed every minute of it. Portnoy was and will remain a major icon for DT but its almost as if the band has lifted and refreshed. Very much looking forward to the spin Mangini puts into the next album.