I don't think we've ever had service to Durango, which is weird given that there has always been a big community of people that are of origin to that part of Mexico. I've heard some even go via Houston to get there. I wonder how many international flights arrive at Durango's airport.

It's odd Continental would have flights to Mexico from another airport than one of their hubs: IAH, EWR, CLE.
For CLE I'm not sure if that CLE > CUN service is seasonal or not.
There may be a Laredo > MEX flight too.
Sometime ago they flew SAT > MEX, MSY > MEX and even MSY > CUN (need confirmation).
I Wouldn't know if with those Embraer RJ they're flying or plan to fly out of AUS, SAT, MSY to MEX, CUN, GDL, MTY.

Wow having a red eye flight on an RJ is horrible. It is nice to have a nonstop connection between the cities, and there probably is demand. Unfortunately it is a long RJ flight that is hard on the passengers and crew as well. However since this is a market not currently served, and late night flights to Mexico are rather common, it should work out. If CO can make it, then it is great for them. A nice extra source of revenue for a plane that would normally sit and do nothing and they will save the passengers time because they don't have to transfer in MEX, or IAH or elsewhere.

If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!

The fact that these flights are red-eyes is natural, popular, and profitable for this market (Mexicana should know). They are targeting the Mexican ethnic traveler, which by culture favors these hours for travel back home. Durango will be a hit, there is enough customer base in California without doubt. Queretaro will probably be used by people headed towards the so
sorounding areas and avoid MEX. Co Ex, must be seeing great results in QRO!

Interesting that you mentioned that Laxint, because as a matter of fact, I was talking to my best friend's friend, who is a F/A for Continental, and who just transfered his domicile from Texas to LA, because he said that CO needed more Spanish speaking F/A's based in LAX for its flights to Mexico. At the time, it didn't hit me, but now I see that CO has some big plans in the works just as you state.

And Like, JoseMex states, Not Mexicana, but when will AeroMexico wake up and smell the coffee. They can open such routes through their affiliate AeroLitoral. Not to criticize, but I think they're just letting too many good opportunities go to others.

Quoting Latinplane (Reply 14):And Like, JoseMex states, Not Mexicana, but when will AeroMexico wake up and smell the coffee. They can open such routes through their affiliate AeroLitoral. Not to criticize, but I think they're just letting too many good opportunities go to others.

What do you expect of two airlines (AM and MX) who do not know what Revenue Management is!!!

Because it involves a strategy and a step by step implementation. CO trusted the Mexican market. The others didn't. I actually had an interview for revenue management with AA, where I stated my ideas of profitable flights to Mexico using RJs. They said that CO will fail badly... after some time, AA started adding flights to Mexico, because they saw CO's success!!

Quoting Rojo (Reply 16):Because it involves a strategy and a step by step implementation. CO trusted the Mexican market. The others didn't. I actually had an interview for revenue management with AA, where I stated my ideas of profitable flights to Mexico using RJs. They said that CO will fail badly... after some time, AA started adding flights to Mexico, because they saw CO's success!!

AA tried Puebla from DFW and was a failure then, maybe now with smaller aircraft AA could try to fly to the most attractive CO destinations in Mexico from their DFW hub.

Aslo on a related note about AA and CO flights to Mexico, before 9/11 it was very common for latinamericans to fly via IAH or DFW to MTY and other northern mexican cities only to avoid going thru inmigration/customs in MEX and the domestic connections.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 17):AA tried Puebla from DFW and was a failure then, maybe now with smaller aircraft AA could try to fly to the most attractive CO destinations in Mexico from their DFW hub.

They already are. They launched Torreon this past August and San Luis Potosi this past January. They are launching Chihuahua, next month, and Veracruz in July. More are coming...

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 17):AA tried Puebla from DFW and was a failure then, maybe now with smaller aircraft AA could try to fly to the most attractive CO destinations in Mexico from their DFW hub.

Actually, MQ has been increasing its presence in Mexico with flights from DFW using ERJ's. They now serve CUU (Chihuahua), TRC (Torreon), SLP (San Luis Potosi) and AGU (Aguascalientes), MTY, GDL and BJX.

As you said, the problem with AA in PBC wase the F100. For the revenue management done by AA, the F100 was too much for PBC, and they started with two flights, then reduced to one. They could only fill the aircraft to the point where the elasticity of the demand allow it, which was not more than half of the plane.

It is amazing that Aerolineas Internacionales had full flights from CVG(Cuernavaca) using B727's and, after they failed, MX could not even fill an F100. The problem: MX had higher costs and fares were too high up to the point where it was easier, cheaper and more convenient to take a bus from Cuernavaca's bus station to Benito Juarez airport and then fly...

Quoting CAL (Reply 7):Im still waiting to see who recives the LAX-MEX routes.

Like has been said, AA or AS are the dead on front runners.

Quoting Rojo (Reply 9):By the way, did anyone notice that both, the LAX-QRO and LAX-DGO are red-eye flights!!! CO will give more use to their ERJ's by sending them to LAX overnight.

First, these are not CO's ERJs but XJ's. Secone, these red-eyes are called tecalotes by Mexicans and are used to connect to bus services into smaller communities that often take several hours. They are very popular and indeed a good use of an aircraft.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 21):First, these are not CO's ERJs but XJ's. Secone, these red-eyes are called tecalotes by Mexicans and are used to connect to bus services into smaller communities that often take several hours. They are very popular and indeed a good use of an aircraft.

First, CO flights from LAX will be on ERJ's. True, they are the XJ version (Extra Long Range) but that does not mean they are not ERJ's. You don't say that PIA will get an LR. You say PIA will get a B777 or a B777-200LR if you want to be more specific.

Second, the correct word is "Tecolote", not "Tecalote" and Mexicans do not call red-eye flights like that. True, MX's red-eye flights used to be called "Tecolotes", but not any more. Only airline staff still calls the red-eye flights "Tecolotes" thanks to the old days. You can go to LAX and ask a group of Mexican people flying a Mexicana red-eye if they are flying a "Tecolote" flight and they will laugh at you. The reason for this flights was better aircraft utilization times and nothing else!

Quoting Rojo (Reply 22):Quoting N1120A (Reply 21):
First, these are not CO's ERJs but XJ's. Secone, these red-eyes are called tecalotes by Mexicans and are used to connect to bus services into smaller communities that often take several hours. They are very popular and indeed a good use of an aircraft.

First, CO flights from LAX will be on ERJ's. True, they are the XJ version (Extra Long Range) but that does not mean they are not ERJ's. You don't say that PIA will get an LR. You say PIA will get a B777 or a B777-200LR if you want to be more specific.

No, what I was saying is that the ERJs that will be flying these flights do not belong to CO. They belong to Express Jet, ICAO code BTA, which is only part owned by CO and operates the flights for them on a FPD basis. Also, they are not the XJ version, they are the EMB-145XR.

Quoting Rojo (Reply 22):Second, the correct word is "Tecolote", not "Tecalote" and Mexicans do not call red-eye flights like that. True, MX's red-eye flights used to be called "Tecolotes", but not any more. Only airline staff still calls the red-eye flights "Tecolotes" thanks to the old days

Thanks for the spelling correction, there is actually a restaurant in my home town called El Tecolote, and I was too lazy to look up the spelling. Still, I know quite a few people in Southern California who still call the flights Tecolotes.

Yeah, that's a term invented by Mexicana in the 80s. Though, it was a way to increase aircraft utilization, it became the norm of travel to Mexico for the people who come from the province (about 85% of us) and had to take a bus journey on a Dina bus to reach their respective towns. You have to remember that infrastructure in Mexico even up till the mid 90s was still very lacking in most parts of the country other than the capital, so journeys took longer than they do today. Today, it's still one of the prefered ways of travel for the group, You fly at night and arrive early in the morning to eat a nice bowl of Menudo Mexican soup. (yummie!)

Quoting Rojo (Reply 16):What do you expect of two airlines (AM and MX) who do not know what Revenue Management is!!!

Well, I studied the subject and still don't have too much experience because I haven't really applied it at work, but it seems to me in a very basic analysis that Mexicana has its act more together. I'm just lookings at the aircraft types that they're getting like the A318 and A319s, for which they plan to send to secondary U.S. destinations with medium Mexican populations like: Bakersfield, Fresno, Charlotte that don't have such services. Good for them! Small enough planes to carry just enough passengers, and big enough cargo capacity for the heavy luggage.

Aerolineas Inter was a different story. They were breaking the laws in many ways to fly. Obviously not enough revenue was being generated by offering those low fares and thus being kept afloat by the Mafia. Tyical Latin American money laundering company like: Aero Continente, Southern Winds, Zuliana de Aviacion, etc...

~~~~~~~~~

By the way, I was wondering, since CO is using these aircraft to Mexico during the night, where are they being flown to during the day, since CO Ex doesn't have a feeder operation in LAX, like it does in Houston?

By the way, I was wondering, since CO is using these aircraft to Mexico during the night, where are they being flown to during the day, since CO Ex doesn't have a feeder operation in LAX, like it does in Houston?

The Mexican cities are usually used as an intermediate point to get the planes to LAX, since CAL puts widebodies on IAH-LAX. There are also a few skiing destination which can be the intermediary. Gunnison, Colorado is one such place I believe.

Quoting Latinplane (Reply 25):By the way, I was wondering, since CO is using these aircraft to Mexico during the night, where are they being flown to during the day, since CO Ex doesn't have a feeder operation in LAX, like it does in Houston?

They are rotating them in from Mexico. They go Regional Feed-IAH-Mexico-LAX-Somewhere else in Mexico.

Example: Most of mexican public will prefer a smaller (100 to 200 pax) airplane than a 767 or a Dc-10 or even a 747, I always wondered, why the hell MX and AM use a gazillion planes each day from LAX to MEX on not use for example 2 767 filled to capacity.
In 1993-1994 Malasia Airlines began service from Kuala Lumpur to Mexico city with stops at L.A and Tai Pei Using a then Shining New 744 the ticket was 239 USD ROUND (like 70 to 150 cheaper fare than competing MX and AM and the plane was wonderfull 33/34 in pitch, Amazing service, I flew there like 8 times and the flight to MEX had never more than 45 PAX !!! the flights always started on Sunday and returned on Saturdays so it was perfect for people visiting relatives or going with kids to Disneyland etc....
Once I asked one agent about it and they told me that most ethnic PAX are afraid of big planes and they prefer to be packed in a narrow tube...

Nowadays when I go to the US in AA,CO,MX,AM,DL or whatever I always expect a narrowbody, notable exceptions are DL to Atlanta and the trasnsatlantic flights (packed like sardines), but Mexican market is a weird one, not easily predicted no so easy to understand...heck even flying to YYZ from MEX you get a small Airbus when Canadian Pacific used a DC-10 in the 90s filled up.....and to mak it even weirder Mexico has a lot of underutilized airports and MEX is filled beyond capacity....

Using a Ouija board to make marketing plans for an airline in Mexico should be mandatory

Quoting N1120A (Reply 24):No, what I was saying is that the ERJs that will be flying these flights do not belong to CO. They belong to Express Jet, ICAO code BTA, which is only part owned by CO and operates the flights for them on a FPD basis. Also, they are not the XJ version, they are the EMB-145XR.

Well, you should have said BTA, because IATA code XJ belongs to Mesaba Aviation Inc. and there is no way the ERJ's could belong to Mesaba and operate for CO from LAX to Mexico... please use IATA and ICAO codes correctly... Additionally, ExpressJet Airlines does business for CO and the expansion plans to Mexico are CO's not BTA's since they don't have new route, revenue management and pricing areas by themselves.

This is the next phase of our Mexico ERJ expansion. IAH is 85% done, or better, with only a few cities left on the list that we haven't at least attempted service to. From here on out it'll be primarily tweaking of the existing schedules by frequencies and such.

The next step is to increase our number of gateway US cities to Mexico, which we have done with the likes of LAX, SAT, MFE, AUS, etc. LAX is slated for further expansion as there is a massive O/D market. The network is not being developed for transfers, as evidenced by the poor connectivity of some flights to the rest of our system out of LAX. The flights make money and we intend to keep after the market until it no longer works for us!

By the way, ALL of ExpressJet's operations are planned and controlled by Continental. True, they are a separate company, but they are still very much reliant on CO and this arrangement will not be changing any time soon.

Quoting Latinplane (Reply 25):Aerolineas Inter was a different story. They were breaking the laws in many ways to fly. Obviously not enough revenue was being generated by offering those low fares and thus being kept afloat by the Mafia. Tyical Latin American money laundering company like: Aero Continente, Southern Winds, Zuliana de Aviacion, etc...

My point with the Aerolineas Internacionales example was the price sensitivity of passengers. It is well known how Aerolnternacionales got the money to finance its operations, but still, they proved MX and AM that the market is there, but not at the price AM and MX wanted to charge for the tickets... it all ends in how good your Revenue Management is!!

Quoting Theredbaron (Reply 30):Once I asked one agent about it and they told me that most ethnic PAX are afraid of big planes and they prefer to be packed in a narrow tube...

Well, they're not that stupid... though we can`t say the same about the agent. Fact is that MX and AM are way more friendly dealing with all those tied boxes, excess luggage, etc...that migrant workers use to carry, than foreign carriers.

Since CO alreadly is using its planes for some Mexico - LAX - Mexico nightflights, it won't come as a surprise to see CO flights from other mexican - or even centralamerican - airports such as CUN, GDL, MTY, GUA, SAL, MGA to LAX.

American Eagle flies DFW-AGU-DFW since 3 years ago, MQ reduced flights from daily service to 3x or 4x per week, but during summer and winter the service is daily with an ERJ140.

CO Express started LAX-AGU on December last year in addition to the daily service from/to IAH, they're using ERJ-140EX. Continental is doing really good down at Aguascalientes (AGU), there's 2x daily service on different seasons, meanwhile American Eagle reduces frequencies between DFW and AGU because of low loads.

CO is not allowed to fly CUN or GDL to LAX because there are already 2 American Flag Carriers on those routes. As for MTY, it appears only 6A is going non-stop from LAX (2X daily) with AA doing a 1 stop. That may be open for CO, though I would think they would want to go mainline on that route. GUA already gets 757 service from UA and A320 service from Taca, and SAL gets UA, AA and lots of Taca service. CO would be in for a major fight over those destinations. MGA currently has no non-stop service to LAX, so that could be open. Then again, CO would have to go mainline on LAX-MGA, as that route is almost 2200nm, way out of the EMB-145's range.

From what I've been told, future LAX expansion will be strictly to Mexico with COEX. On the list for new service are cities (some we don't even serve from IAH) in Baja California and Mexico's West Coast. The only mainline exception would be LAX-MEX with the slim possibility that we are awarded the service. My gut tells me it's going to be AA, but we will see soon enough.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 39):CO is not allowed to fly CUN or GDL to LAX because there are already 2 American Flag Carriers on those routes. As for MTY, it appears only 6A is going non-stop from LAX (2X daily) with AA doing a 1 stop. That may be open for CO, though I would think they would want to go mainline on that route. GUA already gets 757 service from UA and A320 service from Taca, and SAL gets UA, AA and lots of Taca service. CO would be in for a major fight over those destinations. MGA currently has no non-stop service to LAX, so that could be open. Then again, CO would have to go mainline on LAX-MGA, as that route is almost 2200nm, way out of the EMB-145's range

It'll be quite strange if CO would choose to fly to ONT instead of LAX even if there may be no US carriers flying those routes from main mexican and centralamerican cities like CUN, GDL, MTY, MEX, GUA, SAL, MGA where they keep 737NG/757 overnight.
In the subject of ONT, wouldn't those CO mexican flights from LAX with Regional Jets be more affordable if they would operate in/out of ONT?

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 37):Since CO alreadly is using its planes for some Mexico - LAX - Mexico nightflights, it won't come as a surprise to see CO flights from other mexican - or even centralamerican - airports such as CUN, GDL, MTY, GUA, SAL, MGA to LAX.

CO has in the past tried Central America from LAX. If I remember correctly they have entered and withdrawn from the market twice during the 80s and 90s. I believe service was to GUA and SAL with B737-300s.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 46):Why would they announce yesterday that they are doubling their service to Mexico from LAX if they were planning on pulling out in July?

AFAIK they'll expand to NEW cities from LAX. Being those, DGO (Durango) and QET (Querétaro) and I've been told about possibilities of opening PBC (Puebla) from LAX. I've also heard rumors of AA returning to PBC from DFW. Nothing against CO, I'm just writing what I've been told from good sources at Mexico's secretary of tourism.

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 28):For those with no Spanish, a "tecolote" is an owl. It's not the kind of exciting perjorative you probably were hoping for.

OK, here is the question to the all the Mexican posters here. I thought "buho" and "lechuza" meant owl.

I don't recall CO ever serving GUA from LAX. But I know for a fact that they have served SAL from LAX. I remember they had seasonal service during the holiday season of either 97 or 98.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 46):Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 43):
Take this with a grain of salt... I've been told that COEX will pull out from LAX-BJX, LAX-AGU, LAX-MLM by July 06. Reason: They couldn't fight with MX mainline

Why would they announce yesterday that they are doubling their service to Mexico from LAX if they were planning on pulling out in July?

Quoting Klwright69 (Reply 48):I don't recall CO ever serving GUA from LAX. But I know for a fact that they have served SAL from LAX. I remember they had seasonal service during the holiday season of either 97 or 98.

'88-'90 CO flew LAX-SAL-GUA, they brought back the LAX-SAL flight once or twice in the late '90s.