Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)

Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54

Posts: 19,743

Re: Standing Rigging Replacement

Quote:

Originally Posted by marina.alex

My raceboat gets new rigging every 5 years to keep insurance valid (Vancouver BC). Our cruiser in Europe I was thinking replacing the rigging at 10 years.. Now that it's 10 years old I am thinking 15 :-). It is for certain that a broken upper, forestay or backstay would result in a ruined summer. By the time you sourced a mast the summer would be gone.if I look at our rig we have twin back stays, an inner forestay so I am a little more comfortable. I do a complete up the rig inspection every year. Last year we took the race boat's rig and the split ring that held the forestay was gone. It is often the small connections -- split rings, cotter pins and the like are the weak links.

You might be able to source a rigging package Pre-made that could be a good deal. Also, when the mast is out change everything you can. We added a masthead LED running light last year -- took me 4+ hours up the top of the mast. On the ground would have been 15 minutes. Same with the RADAR, VHFantenna, internal halyards. Think of it like either putting on a new leak-proof roof or patching the old one ... One is cheaper, one lets you sleep well at night. Up to you.

I am replacing all halyards, installing 2 additional halyards, new LED tricolor/anchor, ultrasonic wind instrument, radar (already done!), antennae on the spreaders, forward looking infrared cam, fittings for a whisker pole, etc., etc.. So I guess I can't say that the mast will have been down for nothing, in case I don't change the rigging.

.My boat has the original standing rigging and it is from 1974,I was sailing yesterday and the wind was blowing hard and I had no problem,I even laid on them hard and jerked them back and forth and they hold fine..I wouldnt change them unless I saw meat hooks or a big kink in them..they dont change the rigging on the big bridges that have been around for 100+ yrs..

I'll bet you've got galv wire. Its the pretty stainless thats no good.
DH, have you thought of Dyneema?

I have SS standing rigging...My mast is a C&C product that Ted Brewer said was a "good thing" ...Do the mast fabbers also supplie the rigging or is it made by some other company? My boat has had very little use since new and sat in a marina for at least 15 yrs so ,It would not be the same as a boat that had lots of use ,and it has been in fresh water most of its life so I think unless your boat has the same kind of life as mine you might be better off changing it if it is rusty and has broken strands,if not I would just go with it and take extras ...

I had a headstay give way once, upwind in a strong breeze. This was on a racing boat with a hydraulic backstay, and we'd just pumped the backstay up after rounding the leeward mark. Fortunately, we were running a kevlar jib and it held the mast up long enough for us to turn the boat downwind and run the spinnaker halyards to bow cleats, thus saving the stick for another day.

Might it be worth considering just replacing the headstay on Dockhead's rig?

.............The rigging is all apart on the floor of the riggers' loft. They say, naturally, that I should replace it all..............

This statement is key to the expense. I have a far smaller boat than Dockhead's, but I do have a total of 15 stays and shrouds that I have replaced (some two and some three times) over the 28 years I've owned this boat. Both my masts are keel stepped and I remove a few at a time and ship them out to be matched at a rigging suppliers and refit them myself. I most recently replaced my headstay for $328 US. I can replace everything with new for under $2,000. Much can be said for owning all the tasks an DIY. .......I know, I know.....I'm cheap!

I just replaced all the standing rigging on my boat, old style rig so I used 7x19, a 300' spool of 1/4" 7x19 316ss cost me $225 USD. That was from a commercial source at the spool price. Wire is actually pretty cheap, if you don't pay "yachtie prices" so look around for a commercial source, spool prices are alot cheaper so it might actually be cheaper to buy a spool and have alot left over. It is suggested to replace standing rigging every 10-15 years...but there are alot of variables involved, mine was 30 years old (that is 30 years of hard sea miles, not 30 marina years) and it was in great shape, but it was a wooden mast and the rigging was done with "soft eyes" which are totally independent of every other wire, no electrolysis also extra heavy rigging to start with.

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Did my rig last year after 31 years use. bought a spool of 9/32 SS wire and staylocks. did the work myself used the uppers for lowers(saved some money) All the rest new. about $1100 CDN. This will be the first year that the Mast stays in so we'll see how everything is in a couple of months.

Rigging wire is pretty cheap....alot cheaper to replace rigging now than a mast later. If it were not for the fact that you had your rigging down I'd say next time you had the opportunity you should consider replacing it....you have the opportunity now. Just look around for wire from a commercial source. I paid 75 cents/ft and it went as high as $3.85 from a rigger. If I had gone to a rigger and said "I want new standing rigging, send me the bill" it would have cost me over $7000, by doing it myself I saved about $7000.

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Crevice corrosion in Stainless Rigging results from salt water + stress(over 20% of yield) and hot temperatures. I suspect Dockhead that you've not had the high temperatures and you get plenty of diluting rainwater. Afar cry from the conditions some posters live in.

Why not wait until you are ready to install at a reasonable cost.

I suggested Dyneema in my post above but it may alter the comfort of your boat by reducing the weight up top. Its as strong as steel but floats. Also much more justified in the tropics.

Hi, again, guys,
Bash makes an interesting point. We, too have had the forestay break, and been able to turn down in time to save the rig. This happened in Vanuatu, and due to Jim's forethought, we had sta-lok fittings, so just had to get wire shipped in from Australia (as it turned out.) FWIW, after the fact, the riggers in Queensland (a tropical region) we spoke to said they thought that 5 yrs. was replacement time for a stay that has a roller furling sail on it. Apparently, if you use the sail partly rolled up, it changes the stresses on the stay, So, if DH wants to save the money, perhaps just replacing the stays with furlers on them would fit for him. The 10 yr. lifetime was a standard in the field when we left San Francisco, but I'm not aware of the European standards, except as mentioned here.

It just seems to me, as someone who has experienced single stay failure, and dis-masting, that where DH is going to run this risk -- I'd want to know all the wire was good.

Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)

Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54

Posts: 19,743

Re: Standing Rigging Replacement

Quote:

Originally Posted by DumnMad

Crevice corrosion in Stainless Rigging results from salt water + stress(over 20% of yield) and hot temperatures. I suspect Dockhead that you've not had the high temperatures and you get plenty of diluting rainwater. Afar cry from the conditions some posters live in.

Why not wait until you are ready to install at a reasonable cost.

I suggested Dyneema in my post above but it may alter the comfort of your boat by reducing the weight up top. Its as strong as steel but floats. Also much more justified in the tropics.

Thanks for that, and to everyone else who posted.

I would consider Dyneema as reducing weight aloft is really desirable with a 75' rig. But I saw a bill for 6000 pounds (!) at my riggers for a rig inspection (!) of a Dyneema rig -- yikes! I would also worry about chafe . . .

Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)

Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54

Posts: 19,743

Re: Standing Rigging Replacement

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Hi, again, guys,
Bash makes an interesting point. We, too have had the forestay break, and been able to turn down in time to save the rig. This happened in Vanuatu, and due to Jim's forethought, we had sta-lok fittings, so just had to get wire shipped in from Australia (as it turned out.) FWIW, after the fact, the riggers in Queensland (a tropical region) we spoke to said they thought that 5 yrs. was replacement time for a stay that has a roller furling sail on it. Apparently, if you use the sail partly rolled up, it changes the stresses on the stay, So, if DH wants to save the money, perhaps just replacing the stays with furlers on them would fit for him. The 10 yr. lifetime was a standard in the field when we left San Francisco, but I'm not aware of the European standards, except as mentioned here.

It just seems to me, as someone who has experienced single stay failure, and dis-masting, that where DH is going to run this risk -- I'd want to know all the wire was good.

Ann Cate, Hobart, TAS

I also worry about the forestay particularly, and one option is to replace the forestay, inner forestay, and the diagonals, and leave the cap shrouds, lowers, intermediates, and backstay, for now. The forestay comes from Selden and costs 1000 pounds ($1600). The riggers are trying to find the parts to fabricate one out of ordinary wire rope. It may be that I can get the price down to a level where I stop doubting whether I should do it or not.

At those prices I think someone is trying to take you to the cleaners. John Franta at Colligio is pretty much the guy who invented dyneema rigging, and I would be willing to bet for 6,000 pounds you could fly him anywhere in the world for a rig inspection.

Seriously give John Franta a call at Colligio and let him know I sent you. Explain that you are considering changing to dyneema rigging and ask him to work up a quote for the replacement. I am guessing it would be about the same cost as wire, but save you huge in the weig aloft department, and when it's time for new line it will cost a fraction of what wire would.

I wouldn't worry about abrasion overly much. They spec for creep not strength, so the dyneema typically comes out 2-3 times the strength of the wire it is replacing. This means someone could cut thru more than half the line and it would still be stronger than the wire you have now. And having worked with this stuff before it is very difficult to cut. I use a ceramic "never needs to be sharpened" knife, and have to replace it every 5-10 cuts because the dyneema dulls the blades.

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