wsag826 wrote:I think that, given your financial situation and the options presented, you should go with your gut. And I think, based on your previous posts OP, your gut is saying Harvard. Don't feel bad because debt-averse TLSers are scaring you away from monthly debt payments by pointing to employment outcomes.

YHS is a floor above CCN for a reason. YHS will give you more latitude to do with your career whatever it is you'd like to. Not saying NYU won't give you any latitude, but an HLS degree will certainly give you more. If your parents are OK with financing, there's no need to feel bad about turning down a full ride at a school with a lower reputation. I'm not dogging NYU, which would be an excellent choice. I'm merely saying that OP's financial situation does not necessitate the typical debt-averse "take sticker and you'll die" argument, so thus OP should consider the prestige, network, and reputation of HLS and NYU before deciding.

Financially, you will be fine with an HLS degree at sticker. Anyone who wishes to suggest that an HLS degree will push you into squalor or middle-class "mediocrity" can be my guest...but I think rational people know that an HLS degree will make you rich the same way an NYU degree does. Outside of the TLS bubble, it is my opinion that NYU over HLS with any financial package given your circumstances would be hard to rationalize.

Note that this is just me, a 0L, speaking for the minority here when I say that debt cannot always and should not always be the final consideration. You can be obsessed about money and maybe you'll always feel financially secure. Or you can take a risk to put yourself in a better position. Best case scenario, you control your destiny with an HLS degree. Worst case scenario, you have a degree from Harvard Law School and your loving parents will gladly incur monthly payments because they can afford to and because wisdom has told them that money cannot always be one's #1 consideration.

You're not a very good poster, you write with a lot of fluff and zero substance, you've never been to law school and you should probably stop and revisit these opinions in a few years when you realize how little it matters between these schools.

I have thought every now and then that I'm not qualified to respond to these threads...until I realize the people behind the "debt doomsday" posts are mostly 0Ls, current law students, or associates fresh out of law school--none of whom are qualified to tell anyone about the uncertainty of debt payments a decade or two decades out of law school. That's when I realized that it's worth speaking up since the vast majority of TLSers run away from debt for personal reasons--and not with any substance either.

OP is free to take my comments how OP pleases and I was clear in saying that I'm a 0L. But I'm struggling to ascertain how one could rationally suggest that "little matters" between HLS and NYU. Name matters. Don't think so? It's time to look at this country's elite firms and elite jobs (federal clerkships, elite PI and government jobs, etc.) and I'm sure you won't be surprised to find that the majority come from YHS. YHS simply has an upper hand over CCN and any other T14 school and yes, it is because of their names, reputations, alumni networks, and endowments. To look at these things and suggest that they don't matter in comparison with short-term employment outcomes is far-fetched. Short-term employment outcomes do not speak to where graduates end up in a decade or two. In fact, like many other TLSers believe, short-term employment outcomes are often skewed by self-selection in the T3.

Everyone who chooses to chide me for saying that there is justification for taking HLS sticker > NYU $$ is free to do so. But please do not for a minute suggest that your posts come with any more substance than my posts when all you're basing your argument on are short-term employment outcomes and loan payments you've heard others in debt are making.

I base my advise and observations on my experiences recruiting with the types of positions you're referring to, as do other law students and practitioners on here. Now, granted, people's experiences differ, and there are substantive discussions about opportunity cost we can have for specific regions and positions. You can feel free to read and comment on LST data. But your blanket assessments of an industry and its signaling patterns that you know very little about, based largely on some notions you gathered from magazine surveys (which is most of your posts), that's what I take issue with.

brianiac wrote:You people have a sick obsession with sticker. It's completely inappropriate. You act like it's the end of the world. But news flash: it's not gonna be that hard to pay off. If you get biglaw you have it made. Your first year salary is $160000, that's the same as sticker tuition. Or if you're like me, you'll have multiple income streams. Stop pretending you know everything about finances. And stay out of ours.

What does that even mean? You're a stripper or drug dealer?

Biglaw salary is shit in comparison to 300k loans. Most biglaw is in high COL - so in these cities, you're living like a poor welfare mom in a one bedroom apartment but working 60 to 80 hour weeks for your "big money 160k" and never venturing outside.

Getting biglaw is the easier part - staying in biglaw for the length of time needed to pay off your loans is the hard part. Biglaw only gets worse (more responsibility, more stress, more hours as you get more senior). It doesn't get easier until you're a partner and by then you'll be old and used.

Will parents loan all COA for H? Will they be likely to forgive the loan? How much stress would it put on their finances?

1. Don't break your parent's bank. Not a good look.2. With sticker at H, take NYU full ride. I am at H and I do not think it is worth turning down a full tuition if you are taking full debt at H.3. If parents will front full COA and can feasibly do it for all three years and there is a possibility they would forgive the debt, H becomes more attractive because you would still need COL loans at NYU which would probably be close to $75,000 plus interest. But still, NYU with just COL is pretty awesome compared to making your parents mortgage their house, deplete retirement (and later rely on you), etc.

I have here in my hands one NYC biglaw job. I will offer you two different prices for it, and I'll let you choose. You can either pay $0 for it, or you can pay $200,000 for it. Which will you choose?

And if you're weighing how special having a Harvard degree will make you feel, weigh it against how stupid you'll feel every time you interact with someone at your firm who went to NYU and ended up in exactly the same position as you

moonman157 wrote:I have here in my hands one NYC biglaw job. I will offer you two different prices for it, and I'll let you choose. You can either pay $0 for it, or you can pay $200,000 for it. Which will you choose?

And if you're weighing how special having a Harvard degree will make you feel, weigh it against how stupid you'll feel every time you interact with someone at your firm who went to NYU and ended up in exactly the same position as you

Phil Brooks wrote:This whole "if it's your parents' money then sure, pay sticker to H" is inaccurate. It is your money. If your parents are willing to pay for your law degree, then they are also probably going to pass their money on to you as an inheritance. By going to H, you're effectively reducing that inheritance by $200k + interest compounded over 20-30 years.

Not actually related to the OP, but I'm going to disagree with the bolded part. It isn't your money it's your parent's money. Are my parents willing to give me $$ to pay for my education? Sure. Are my parents willing to give me $$ for no reason "as an inheritance" because they have the available funds? Hell no. They have better shit to spend that on. Many parents are willing to pay for education but will only give you the money if it goes towards education because education is valued more highly than anything else (at least in my culture). It's more like "this is a valuable investment in our child" and less like "oh we saved this extra money for your education so you can have it regardless of whether or not you need it!"

And by "my parents" I mean hypothetically if my parents had that kind of money. They aren't paying for anything for me .

Phil Brooks wrote:This whole "if it's your parents' money then sure, pay sticker to H" is inaccurate. It is your money. If your parents are willing to pay for your law degree, then they are also probably going to pass their money on to you as an inheritance. By going to H, you're effectively reducing that inheritance by $200k + interest compounded over 20-30 years.

Not actually related to the OP, but I'm going to disagree with the bolded part. It isn't your money it's your parent's money. Are my parents willing to give me $$ to pay for my education? Sure. Are my parents willing to give me $$ for no reason "as an inheritance" because they have the available funds? Hell no. They have better shit to spend that on. Many parents are willing to pay for education but will only give you the money if it goes towards education because education is valued more highly than anything else (at least in my culture). It's more like "this is a valuable investment in our child" and less like "oh we saved this extra money for your education so you can have it regardless of whether or not you need it!"

And by "my parents" I mean hypothetically if my parents had that kind of money. They aren't paying for anything for me .

I think inheritance here was referring to getting the money after they pass away. But it's probably best not to base life decisions on how much more money you will get when your parents die.

Tiago Splitter wrote:Definitely NYU. Interest free doesn't mean much when you'll still have to borrow an extra 200k, and with an engineering background you'll have your choice of firms coming from NYU.

Grounded132 wrote:Looks like I'll be the resurrecting this thread for another round.

The schools: Harvard vs. NYU (Vanderbilt, no tuition)

The student: Already admitted to both, will defer both for two years and be able to have ~60k going in.

Post Grad: No BigLaw; aiming for DoJ or start-up or business (tech/engineering background)

The Emotional: 1st Gen immigrant refugee dream of going to HLS vs. very very aware of how much money is worth

The Problem: How much of/would it be - a mistake to take Harvard over NYU? Icarus flying too close to the sun?

Just throwing this out there (didn't read the thread): NYU full scholly is still ~60 to ~90K debt after fees and COL, depending on how much you want to spend. I gathered this figure from talking to several current students and alumni of NYU. Of course, even 90K is less than sticker at H; just something to consider.