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Re: TUF Season 12

Originally Posted by HisLeast

Yeah, I imagine they gentrified it a bit so they could take it to more places.

It was much better back in the day. The fighters had to fight three times per night. No gloves. Sometimes the bare nuckles to the head got real interesting. One time, Kemo was dropping elbows to the face.

Re: TUF Season 12

Originally Posted by Reynolds357

It was much better back in the day. The fighters had to fight three times per night. No gloves. Sometimes the bare nuckles to the head got real interesting. One time, Kemo was dropping elbows to the face.

Saw that fight. Pretty brutal. For all the lost rough edges though, it is my opinion (backed up by absolutely no solid evidence what-so-ever) that the modern MMA fighter in the UFC would dismantle the first generation guys, with the exception of maybe Gracie and Severn.

Re: TUF Season 12

Spoilerless Synopsis of Episode 3
I love it when a guy who's marked as a "stand up guy" brings a ground game out of nowhere. As for the fight itself, the striking was only marginally exciting. Each fighter landed 2 or 3 doozies, but for all the swinging that was done not many strikes were landed. I expected more in the accuracy department from Wilkinson, but he redeemed himself by showing his well up to the task on the ground game. Johnson only impressed me with the slams he executed. However, for all his swagger for being first pick, he practically gave away the first round and then didn't do much in the second either.

Spoiler Synopsis (Highlight text between stars)
***Where in the hec did round three come from!? If Johnson can come out swinging like that after the first two rounds he clearly didn't have his head in the game at the start. It was like he had a full tank of gas. For raw power athletics I don't know who can match him on the show. Now they just need to teach that guy winning technique.
***

Re: TUF Season 12

Originally Posted by HisLeast

Saw that fight. Pretty brutal. For all the lost rough edges though, it is my opinion (backed up by absolutely no solid evidence what-so-ever) that the modern MMA fighter in the UFC would dismantle the first generation guys, with the exception of maybe Gracie and Severn.

I would have to disagree with you there. Kimo was able to be successful far past his prime against the modern mma fighters. Had he were 10 years younger, he would be dominant. You are also forgetting that the first generation of fghters could use all the steroids they wanted. It is obvious from looking at them that not many used them.

Re: TUF Season 12

Originally Posted by HisLeast

Saw that fight. Pretty brutal. For all the lost rough edges though, it is my opinion (backed up by absolutely no solid evidence what-so-ever) that the modern MMA fighter in the UFC would dismantle the first generation guys, with the exception of maybe Gracie and Severn.

I do not even think your best fighters are fighting UFC. I used to take Karate from a native Korean. He is now dead. He thought the whole UFC thing was a joke. He used to fight underground in Japan and Thailand when he was in his prime. He said that American MMA is a joke compared to those fights. He started practicing martial arts at age 2. He could hit so hard that none of us would hold strike pads for him. I held a pad one time. It was actually a soft strike pad with a very hard almost plastic like pad in front of it. I honestly thought he stopped my heart from beating and broke ribs. I could not breathe for 20 minutes. He always said grappling was a joke because no grappler could have ever gotten close enough to take him down without getting their neck broken in the process of trying to get there. He said Americans have never figured out the art of the punch and kick.

Re: TUF Season 12

Originally Posted by Reynolds357

I would have to disagree with you there. Kimo was able to be successful far past his prime against the modern mma fighters. Had he been 10 years younger, If he were 10 years younger, he would be dominant. You are also forgetting that the first generation of fghters could use all the steroids they wanted. It is obvious from looking at them that not many used them.

Well as I said, there would be exceptions (Severn & Gracie would be my own). The 1st gen guys had big brass uh... "nerves", that's for sure, but most of them were single discipline fighters: pure boxers, pure karate guys, wrestlers, with a light sprinkling of kung fu and sumo for the lulz. Its not a single discipline game anymore though. More than ever, you have to come to the cage with at least a working knowledge of one grappling discipline and one striking discipline. The guys with two little of one or the other constantly get finished.

Re: TUF Season 12

Originally Posted by HisLeast

Well as I said, there would be exceptions (Severn & Gracie would be my own). The 1st gen guys had big brass uh... "nerves", that's for sure, but most of them were single discipline fighters: pure boxers, pure karate guys, wrestlers, with a light sprinkling of kung fu and sumo for the lulz. Its not a single discipline game anymore though. More than ever, you have to come to the cage with at least a working knowledge of one grappling discipline and one striking discipline. The guys with two little of one or the other constantly get finished.

As my old instructor used to say, a shoot fighter has to shoot. He referred to all grapplers as shoot fighters. He went on to say, and when he shoots, he gets his jaw, temple, or eye socket caved in. If by some chance he gets past that, he gets his neck broken. I could be wrong, but I just do not think we in the USA see fighters who have kicked and punched wooden beams full speed their entire life. We see fighters who have hit pads and pulled punches and kicks their entire life. Sensae used to kick and beat on a freaking wooden pole for hours a day.

Re: TUF Season 12

Originally Posted by Reynolds357

As my old instructor used to say, a shoot fighter has to shoot. He referred to all grapplers as shoot fighters. He went on to say, and when he shoots, he gets his jaw, temple, or eye socket caved in. If by some chance he gets past that, he gets his neck broken. I could be wrong, but I just do not think we in the USA see fighters who have kicked and punched wooden beams full speed their entire life. We see fighters who have hit pads and pulled punches and kicks their entire life. Sensae used to kick and beat on a freaking wooden pole for hours a day.

I can appreciate that an exclusive striker will assume he'll have perfect striking opportunities. Just like an exclusive grappler believes all fights always go to ground. As deadly a striker your teacher surely was, I believe he may under estimate a shooter as dedicated to shooting as he was to striking. A shooter isn't going to shoot a prepped striker waiting and ready in a forward stance. He'll wait until his opponent is flat footed, off balance, or committed to a telegraphed move. I want to be clear that I'm not praising grapplers over strikers, but rather that in MMA just one or the other is likely going to put you in some bad situations.

Re: TUF Season 12

Originally Posted by HisLeast

I can appreciate that an exclusive striker will assume he'll have perfect striking opportunities. Just like an exclusive grappler believes all fights always go to ground. As deadly a striker your teacher surely was, I believe he may under estimate a shooter as dedicated to shooting as he was to striking. A shooter isn't going to shoot a prepped striker waiting and ready in a forward stance. He'll wait until his opponent is flat footed, off balance, or committed to a telegraphed move. I want to be clear that I'm not praising grapplers over strikers, but rather that in MMA just one or the other is likely going to put you in some bad situations.

What amazed me about watching Sensae, is the fact that his punches and kicks were not like the punches and kicks we see today in kick boxing or MMA. I would love to see the modern MMA fighters match up against a true master kicking and punching that has done it their entire life. A master who every strike they make is aimed at a disabling or lethal point on the body. Someone who truly understands how to disrupt the function of the body. Sensae never would mention it, but one of his peers who also came from Korea said Sensae had fought in several matches in which his opponent died from injuries sustained in the fight. Sensae used to say the only thing he was scared of was a gun and he was only scared of it if it were more than 10ft. away.

He did not teach martial arts the way it is taught today. He taught it to hurt someone quickly and very badly. I see kickers and strikers in MMA today, but none of them have devesdating strike force. They hit someone and it stuns them a little. Sensae kicked or hit someone and broke stuff when he hit them. He was old by the time I knew him, but he was still lethal. The only time I saw him hit someone full speed was un-intentional. He was doing a demo with a Judo expert. sensae was demonstrating a full speed kick. He was going to kick a couple inches over the Judo experts head. The Judo expert decided he was going to be a smart butt and block the kick and turn the block into a throw. He had obvioulsy never encountered strike force like sensae's because both bones in the arm he used to try to block the kick were shattered. Needless to say sensae did not get thrown.