Posted 8/18/2011 3:21 am
Logan: When I lost Ray, I thought that was the end. It was like all the adrenaline left my body. 'Cause I knew in his face when he lost me, he thought I was gonna die.
--------------------- 6:34
They were tearing my body in every direction at this point, tearing my muscles. And they were trying to tear off chunks of my scalp, they had my head in different directions.
Pelley: Pulling at your hair?
Logan: Oh yeah, not trying to pull out my hair, holding big wads of it, literally trying to tear my scalp off my skull.
--------------------7:00
And I thought, when I thought I am going to die here, my next thought was I can't believe I just let them kill me, that that was as much fight as I had. That I just gave in and I gave up on my children so easily, how could you do that?
-------------------7:19 THIS,ACTUALLY WE KNOW WAS CUT AT THIS MOMENT: IF YOU LOOK AT THE PREVIEWS, SHE ACTUALLY SAYS THE FOLLOWING: "HOW COULD YOU DO THAT, I THOUGHT YOU WERE STRONGER THAN THAT."
--------------------7:19
Pelley: Your daughter and your son are one and two years old?
-------------------- 7:23 -- this was also a definite cut.

Logan: I had to fight for them. And that's when I said, "Okay, it's about staying alive now. I have to just surrender to the sexual assault. What more can they do now? They're inside you everywhere." So the only thing to fight for, left to fight for, was my life.
---------------------7:41
I was a fight she endured for 25 min.....

So, we do not know if there is a break in all of those spots where she could have easily spoken about beeing carried away, dragged into a secluded place. Could have described a good extra 30-60 min of events.

The mark of their hands on her. Cuts and everything you can imagine. A bruise diagonally across her chest. Tearing in her intimate parts. So you believe the majority of that 25 minute interval didn't involve beating? OK. But the square was packed that night, even after 11 pm, as shown in that Bambuser video from user Ahmadtaha. How could this go on under everyone's nose and not be noticed? That is what I cannot understand. And they were pulling on her limbs for some time because she emphasized how sore her joints were. If the pulling can somehow be correlated to sexual activity then I can accept your hypothesis.

You can't understand it,but Lara confess to all of the above at the square,this probably was notice by everyone in the area,but it's the normal for them not to get involved.This assault/attack actions was done to her before the missing 25 minutes to 1-hour? time slot.You can't imagine what things they did to her next? Also the final assault location not establish.Could have been Construction site,side street,alleyway these are all suspected locations.

On sunday on Lara Logan official facebook page discussion board one guy wrote this :

Abdulkhaliq Alemao
Madam Logan:

You must know that there is a possibility that the people who raped you were part of the pro-Mubarak forces seeking to discredit and smear the reputation of the protesters, and you being a white Westerner and a woman presented an irresistible opportunity to do just that.

Please madam do not commit the folly of thinking that you were abused by the common people running in the streets to topple a tyrant, as the pro-Mubarak forces were not dressed in military uniforms?

Well, I applaud Jessica Smichek. No question, some women can do it. And it is good. Probably this means they healed.
But can every peroson have the same reaction to such an event???? Rape is a crime of emotion, not only a crime of sex, or of power. Do you expect a non-emotional reaction? Also, if you found it prurient -- it is your issue, not hers. You cannot fault a person that had just undergone personal tragegy if that gave you a boner. If it deed, it does not mean that you are a bad person -- on th contrary, this probably means that you are a good person -- because it obviously stimulates your emotional side (because, lets face it -- erection are produced by love, not only lust, am I correct? I mean, I've never had an erection, so what do I know?)

So instead of feeling defensive and blaming others, (i.e. poor prurient victim), enjoy the boner, don't act on it, obviously, unless it is to do something good to somebody, because, "hey, you already got the boner, might as well enjoy it." I think this could fall under the concept of sublimation too.

I would be wary of the boner theory. That would mean every situation in which a boner was involved - yes even in real rape cases - love was involved - nah that doesn´t add up. That would just be unfair to the Peace Corps Women who were obviously not very loved by these men. I found a workable defintion in a book by Umberto Eco: Love is when you make the wellbeing and happiness of the beloved one your first priority. Not your lust or wish to getting laid. That is how you can measure if you really love someone: Is their wellbeing of paramount importance to you? Or do you only want to fuck her?

But i have to admit your theory of having the boner but not acting on it makes far more sense. I like it because it doesn´t instill Guilt. You can have an erection in the weirdest situation but by seperating your lust from the situation at hand you can still act ethically.

Becides, we are not standing here, arguing whose rape survivor is better? Right?

No ;) They are all very fine women no doubt about it. I think it would be good for Lara too if she gave her testimony not alone but together with other women. Strength in numbers. I LIKED it that these women were interviewed together and could give each other support by just sitting together.

It does. But we assumed that it was the case anyway weeks ago. That the interview just didn´t add up that there were parts missing. It´s only logical that an interview is far longer then what remains after editing. I mean i once worked in a newsroom and i watched professional editors cutting stories for 60 minutes like formats. It´s a complicated mess: The editor AND the chief reporter AND the one who made the particular part all crowd together in front of the computer and then the editor cuts around like a madman. Concerning 60 minutes has far more ressources there would have been even more people present. Even in a normal situation where nothing NEEDS to be left out for sensitive reasons but more because of space editing leaves a very manipulated mark on the final product. In the LL interview i can imagine much more work than usual was done and editing mistakes were not easy to cover after large chunks of material were edited away. Audio editing is far more difficult than image editing by the way. So to save certain parts or the red line of the interview they had to be wary of correct audio editing.

The bit about the parts that sound similar: Audio cutting problems i am sure.

I would be wary of the boner theory. That would mean every situation in which a boner was involved - yes even in real rape cases - love was involved - nah that doesn´t add up. That would just be unfair to the Peace Corps Women who were obviously not very loved by these men. I found a workable defintion in a book by Umberto Eco: Love is when you make the wellbeing and happiness of the beloved one your first priority. Not your lust or wish to getting laid. That is how you can measure if you really love someone: Is their wellbeing of paramount importance to you? Or do you only want to fuck her?

But i have to admit your theory of having the boner but not acting on it makes far more sense. I like it because it doesn´t instill Guilt. You can have an erection in the weirdest situation but by seperating your lust from the situation at hand you can still act ethically.

I think erections, like all physiological symptoms of emotional arousal is far more complex than just lust or love. Tears, smiles,sweating, increased breathing rate, and heart rate they all can be caused by various emotions, and these emotions can be very mixed, or can be primarily love, fear, hate, etc.
Makes no sence to feel guilty over increased heart rate, does it? Why would you feel guilty about an erection?
I have heard of a man who was very distressed about getting an erection from war scene. Unfortunately, he was so disturbed by it, he thought he had inclinations of being a killer, when nothing could be further from truth... It was clear, from his story that had this been a real situation, he would be inclined to go and help... This is something that does not even need sublimation: the emotions he felt were mainly: fear, pity, compassion -- how much can you sublimate those?

I think erections, like all physiological symptoms of emotional arousal is far more complex than just lust or love. Tears, smiles,sweating, increased breathing rate, and heart rate they all can be caused by various emotions, and these emotions can be very mixed, or can be primarily love, fear, hate, etc.
Makes no sence to feel guilty over increased heart rate, does it? Why would you feel guilty about an erection?
I have heard of a man who was very distressed about getting an erection from war scene. Unfortunately, he was so disturbed by it, he thought he had inclinations of being a killer, when nothing could be further from truth... It was clear, from his story that had this been a real situation, he would be inclined to go and help... This is something that does not even need sublimation: the emotions he felt were mainly: fear, pity, compassion -- how much can you sublimate those?

Yes you are right. The interesting bit is: Even if you have an erection as a man that doesn´t mean you need to get sex asap. The erection must be acoompanied by a special arousal that heightens the erection. It´s rather complicated i agree.

There is also an important distinction between ejaculation from a erected penis and an orgasm - in fact if you do not ejaculate the orgasm can be far more intense. On the other side men discover with the passing years that they can
ejaculate and still not feel an orgasm.

But what you say in essence is that we can experience an erection if listening to LLs Story and that doesn´t mean something bad in your eyes? Is that correct?

Yes you are right. The interesting bit is: Even if you have an erection as a man that doesn´t mean you need to get sex asap. The erection must be acoompanied by a special arousal that heightens the erection. It´s rather complicated i agree.

There is also an important distinction between ejaculation from a erected penis and an orgasm - in fact if you do not ejaculate the orgasm can be far more intense. On the other side men discover with the passing years that they can
ejaculate and still not feel an orgasm.

But what you say in essence is that we can experience an erection if listening to LLs Story and that doesn´t mean something bad in your eyes? Is that correct?

In Defence of Boners.
Yes. Absolutely. See, for me, this was pretty much assumed that we all agree on that.
Now that I realize that it can be a surprise, I want to say that I hope that this statement of mine is not offensive or shocking to anyone here, especially my fellow ladies. But that is the complexity, beauty and reality of a human being as a whole (in this case, men, but we women have plenty of equivaletns, I am sure. Probably just a matter of self analysis). In fact, if human emotions and especially human reactions to their emotions were not as complex as they are.... the very idea of sublimation would not have been possible, I think.
In the more spiritual terms, the whole point of creating a physical world was to enable juxtaposition of two diametrically opposite moral states in one spot. You kind of have to bring them together in order for one to overcome the other, right? Well, that is my phylosophy. I am sure many people will read it and say "what ever." That's right. The bottom line is that erections are no worse than a heart rate elecation (some would say they are better, even).

Posted 8/18/2011 3:00 pm
Boner Defence, continued.
Here is some VERY USEFUL medical information, I would like to share. If a man complains of erectile dysfunction, we first need to be able to figure out if the problem is psychological vrs physical. You know how we do it? Very simple method. We tell them to put a very light band of paper around it, make it snug, but not too tight, obviously, and fix it with some tape. If the man wakes up and the paper band is intact -- we know that the problem is not psychological, (i.e. something else rather than his mind is preventing him from getting erections: vascular desease, diabetis, neurological disorder, etc). So even if man NEVER wakes up with a boner, trust me, he probably still gets a number of them throught his sleep cycle.

Why victims of rape or always guilty ? Straus-khan , Lara Logan , in the Army and many others everydays , read the worldwide news.....
The defendants in their defense always said " she was willing or agree , she is a bitch!!!!" WWWHHHYYYYY !!!!!

Carefull , this might happen to you or to a member of your familly ..soon !!! You will eg for help ...ohhhh please god help us!!!???????

Agreed. I am absolutely not convinced anymore that it was only 25 min, actually. Neither she, nor Scott Pelley ever say that. And yet, we do get that impression.

Pelley makes the statement right after she says she will surrender to the sexual assault that "It was a fight she endured for 25 minutes..." then she says she had no doubt she was dying and that it would go on and on. Then she gets to the ladies camped out at the fence. The assumption is that 25 minutes elapsed between the surrender and coming up to the fence (that is how I interpret it). I'm inclined to believe the 25 minute statement because the doctor in the Rue 89 article says that 45 minutes elapsed between when he warned Logan about her companions and saw her beaten and naked during the rescue by soldiers. So she would have gotten into trouble 10 to 15 minutes after he saw her. I don't see how CBS could get the doctor and the Rue89 reporter to cooperate in faking the time frame. And she was rescued on the square, not found in some isolated corner. So 25 minutes makes sense to me.

Pelley makes the statement right after she says she will surrender to the sexual assault that "It was a fight she endured for 25 minutes..." then she says she had no doubt she was dying and that it would go on and on. Then she gets to the ladies camped out at the fence. The assumption is that 25 minutes elapsed between the surrender and coming up to the fence (that is how I interpret it). I'm inclined to believe the 25 minute statement because the doctor in the Rue 89 article says that 45 minutes elapsed between when he warned Logan about her companions and saw her beaten and naked during the rescue by soldiers. So she would have gotten into trouble 10 to 15 minutes after he saw her. I don't see how CBS could get the doctor and the Rue89 reporter to cooperate in faking the time frame. And she was rescued on the square, not found in some isolated corner. So 25 minutes makes sense to me.

Posted 8/18/2011 8:55 pm
Ok, here's something that I got from a forum that I post to for ex pats. I was asking about the demonstrations and if people had any recollections of the day when Lara was attacked.

This picture could be her, it shows a western woman fitting her description being taken from the back doors of an ambulance on the afternoon in question.

As you can see, her clothing is messy and might be damaged but it is hardly what you might call "torn to shreds" and she also appears to be supporting herself and has no obvious injuries.

I am still not completely convinced it's her, but I wonder how many other blonde women dressed that way were around on that day? So I think it is perhaps 70% chance that it is her... it's frustrating that the face is not clearer so we can be sure one way or the other.

I've saved this one just in case CBS or Mubarrak forces start to delete incriminating pictures... you never know.

Ok, here's something that I got from a forum that I post to for ex pats. I was asking about the demonstrations and if people had any recollections of the day when Lara was attacked.

This picture could be her, it shows a western woman fitting her description being taken from the back doors of an ambulance on the afternoon in question.

As you can see, her clothing is messy and might be damaged but it is hardly what you might call "torn to shreds" and she also appears to be supporting herself and has no obvious injuries.

I am still not completely convinced it's her, but I wonder how many other blonde women dressed that way were around on that day? So I think it is perhaps 70% chance that it is her... it's frustrating that the face is not clearer so we can be sure one way or the other.

I've saved this one just in case CBS or Mubarrak forces start to delete incriminating pictures... you never know.

Dr. Ben-Meir will engage Ms. Logan on three particularly relevant topics regarding foreign policy in the Middle East. First, he will solicit Ms. Logan's take on the Arab Spring, focusing on the progress made in Egypt since the ousting of President Mubarak, and how this progress, or lack there of, resonates in the Arab World. Dr. Ben-Meir will discuss the repercussions of United States policy in Afghanistan, inquiring Ms. Logan's opinion on how best the US can achieve its results given its failures up to this point. Finally, Dr. Ben-Meir will discuss with Ms. Logan the current situation in Iran and its potential to become a nuclear power, especially as US attention has been diverted from this issue by the Arab Uprisings.

This thread has gone on and on with the same thing. Are there any NYU students out there? If there is, go to this event. Get close enough to her and ask her if she was actually raped with penis. Tell her about this thread. Tell her how some people are determined to know the truth and that there are people just talking day and night about her assault. If she ignores you, just keep asking her questions like a reporter would.

Ok, here's something that I got from a forum that I post to for ex pats. I was asking about the demonstrations and if people had any recollections of the day when Lara was attacked.

This picture could be her, it shows a western woman fitting her description being taken from the back doors of an ambulance on the afternoon in question.

As you can see, her clothing is messy and might be damaged but it is hardly what you might call "torn to shreds" and she also appears to be supporting herself and has no obvious injuries.

I am still not completely convinced it's her, but I wonder how many other blonde women dressed that way were around on that day? So I think it is perhaps 70% chance that it is her... it's frustrating that the face is not clearer so we can be sure one way or the other.

I've saved this one just in case CBS or Mubarrak forces start to delete incriminating pictures... you never know.

Posted 8/18/2011 10:48 pm
ENOUGH!!!! NOTHING NEW STOP THE MADNESS! EGYPTIAN MEN GOT SOME WESTERN WHITE PUSSY THAT NIGHT! SHE AND CBS DO NOT WANT TO TELL THE REAL STORY BECAUSE OF THE LARGE NUMBERS OF MEN THAT RAPED HER!