Correction, he hated Thor until after he remembered that it was Malekith who betrayed him and dumped him down into the center of the Earth. Then, he HATES Malekith.

You guys think Kurse will be the one to kill Malekith? I feel like if anyone will get a sort of redemption, or that we may sympathize with, it will be Kurse haha

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigThor

The only thing I don't like is the baggy sleeves, I say make his sleeves metallic and I'd be a happy camper.

Okay. I'm with ya there, personally I'd be fine with either, but as long as the color doesn't change, the sleeves being metallic would look better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by American Maid

The skull on the front of his shirt is a bit much. But I otherwise like what he's wearing.

erhemm, *armor*

But personally I like the skull, yeah, it's a bit much but I mean, just look at it, it kinda just says "I'm big and strong, and I kick ass, and if you aren't sure of that, I have a skull on my armor, proving that I am badass" that's like..comic book esqe right there

Bumping this up because we probably should continue our Kurse conversation in the Alice Krige thread in here. Or try to.... lol

Reposting the last thing I said about it here...

to jaqua99

Think of it this way, if Malekith is responsible for killing

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Frigga IF that spoiler is true, then either Loki or Thor WILL be the one to take revenge on and kill Malekith not Kurse. And Loki being who he is, is more likely to take revenge than the hero Thor will be. Plus the fight is going to be really really cool and different from what we've already seen. They need to change that up to keep it interesting. The death of that character goes far FAR deeper and impacts those characters MUCH more than any manipulations that have been done to Algrim/Kurse. They wouldn't necessarily be ignoring that relationship and the manipulations of Malekith, it would just be the end result that is different. Kurse's revenge on Malekith would be then turning good and leading the dark elves into a peaceful age (sort of like Alfyse does, it sounds like), if this hypothesis pans out.

and it wouldnt necessarily mean total redemption for Loki, it is only a gesture that he still cares for his family, and could be seen as a bit of an olive branch I suppose to Thor. It is still revenge though, and that is not usually seen as redemptive. When Lucas first titled Return of the Jedi, it was Revenge of the Jedi, but then it was changed because Jedi are basically a force of good and do not take revenge. It was however, Revenge of the Sith.

The stuff with Surtur or something similar could still happen in Thor 3.

Bumping this up because we probably should continue our Kurse conversation in the Alice Krige thread in here. Or try to.... lol

Reposting the last thing I said about it here...

to jaqua99

Think of it this way, if Malekith is responsible for killing

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Frigga IF that spoiler is true, then either Loki or Thor WILL be the one to take revenge on and kill Malekith not Kurse. And Loki being who he is, is more likely to take revenge than the hero Thor will be. Plus the fight is going to be really really cool and different from what we've already seen. They need to change that up to keep it interesting. The death of that character goes far FAR deeper and impacts those characters MUCH more than any manipulations that have been done to Algrim/Kurse. They wouldn't necessarily be ignoring that relationship and the manipulations of Malekith, it would just be the end result that is different. Kurse's revenge on Malekith would be then turning good and leading the dark elves into a peaceful age (sort of like Alfyse does, it sounds like), if this hypothesis pans out.

and it wouldnt necessarily mean total redemption for Loki, it is only a gesture that he still cares for his family, and could be seen as a bit of an olive branch I suppose to Thor. It is still revenge though, and that is not usually seen as redemptive. When Lucas first titled Return of the Jedi, it was Revenge of the Jedi, but then it was changed because Jedi are basically a force of good and do not take revenge. It was however, Revenge of the Sith.

The stuff with Surtur or something similar could still happen in Thor 3.

And I wont hold you to the eatin' dirt and taping it thing.

(I moved the tail end of your spoiler button, btw.)

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Taking revenge is a misplaced way to make things right.

(Now, that's not the same as removing a threat.) I can see that being consistent with his actions at the end of Thor1, though.

Exactly again. Revenge is not the same as removing a threat or making a sacrifice to redeem yourself. Not by a long shot.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Especially if the character takes a great deal of pleasure in that revenge, which I suspect Loki would. And revenge is not an action that the hero should be taking whether it be Thor or Kurse/Algrim if he does turn to good. Having Loki fighting Malekith and killing him out of revenge for Frigga's death makes A LOT of sense in a number of ways...

1) Loki was defeated numerous times, both in Thor and then bested over and over by the Avengers. If he's to be taken seriously as a threat in future (either to the side of good or bad) then he needs to defeat someone powerful and beat them soundly.

2) Two masters of magic in a battle to the death. need I say more? It is going to be freakin' amazing!

3) Again, this action would be showing that Loki is still attached to his family, and a sort of olive branch to Thor possibly so that the brothers relationship continues to "evolve" (as I quoted from Kevin Feige in another thread would happen in Thor 2). Although I still dont think Loki will be on Asgard at the end of Thor 2, that would surprise me. But taking revenge on Malekith would NOT be redeeming Loki. That redemption can be saved for later if it is to happen at all. He would still be very very dangerous and would basically be walking a fault line between good and evil, so that we are never quite sure what side he's on for most of the remainder of the films.

4) on the other hand Kurse killing Malekith, just because he messed with and manipulated him a bit, would seem like a let down in comparison. it seems much more poignent to me, if Kurse is not killed that he turns to good and leads the dark Elves into being peacful, and again this is much more beneficial to Thor's character (as far as him growing into a wise eventual King) if he's able to pull off turning Kurse/Algrim and the dark elves to peace and good rather than kill them.

One little comment: in the books, Malekith had Algrim square off against Thor. Late in the fight, he plunged them both down to where there was some molten lava. Thor escapes via Mjolnir, Algrim, not so much. (I guess his armor saves him.) Enter the Beyonder, who heals him and changes him into Kurse.

Being set up for a what would be a certain death were it not for a little deus ex machina is a little more severe than being "messed with". And a lot of the subsequent story is about Kurse charging around in New York or Hel or wherever trying to get at whomever he perceives is responsible. So for Kurse not to pursue that is kind of pulling a long thread out of this tapestry.

I'd bet my but that Surtur will be the one to change him. It sorta makes sense, as the beyonder probably wont ever appear in the mcu :P

Um, can we go back to the dirt wager?

I think it's a very strong possibility, very neat and tidy, for Surtur to be responsible for changing Algrim into Kurse. But it doesn't seem as likely that he himself would do it. It would mean showing the big scary 1000-ft tall Surtur pretty early in the film. If he shows up in Thor2 (which I can see as plausible, though I worry it could make the film overstuffed), it would be at the end.

Rather, it would be one of his proxies that actually does the deed. I don't know enough about Surtur's minions to speculate much about who that might be. (But I *swear* I will read the Simonson run before the film opens. )

Yes... if given the option of jaqua99's butt or a vid of him eating dirt, I'll definitely take the eating dirt Now if you were to wager Tom Hiddleston's butt, well that, my friend, is another story entirely.

but again I won't hold you to anything in a year's time when you are proven to be wrong. I just hope you aren't getting your hopes up too much for a certain gigantic hot head to show up in Thor 2.

Quote:

I think it's a very strong possibility, very neat and tidy, for Surtur to be responsible for changing Algrim into Kurse. But it doesn't seem as likely that he himself would do it. It would mean showing the big scary 1000-ft tall Surtur pretty early in the film. If he shows up in Thor2 (which I can see as plausible, though I worry it could make the film overstuffed), it would be at the end.

and that's why I'm leaning towards Surtur probably being saved for Thor 3. There is enough stuff going on without him and I think there are very very plausible reasons for Algrim changing if certain spoilers pan out, and certain ideas here pan out here. And plus it seems like, judging by the amount of enthusiasm some fans have for him, that Surtur is like Thanos to the established fandom and probably should be the major big baddie in his own movie, not shared with Malekith and Kurse and dark elves, and whatever Loki gets up to, etc...

I think it's a very strong possibility, very neat and tidy, for Surtur to be responsible for changing Algrim into Kurse. But it doesn't seem as likely that he himself would do it. It would mean showing the big scary 1000-ft tall Surtur pretty early in the film. If he shows up in Thor2 (which I can see as plausible, though I worry it could make the film overstuffed), it would be at the end.

Rather, it would be one of his proxies that actually does the deed. I don't know enough about Surtur's minions to speculate much about who that might be. (But I *swear* I will read the Simonson run before the film opens. )

Well here is what I am thinking. Surtur probably will be more like 80 feet tall. just think for a second...1000 feet tall. do you know how big that is? That's like 3 godzilla's lol.

Adn they can easily show algrim being transformed into kurse without showing surtur/letting us know it is surtur.

Algrim is in a firery pit, and a voice is talking to him, he changes. It gets revealed later by kurse that the fire demon did it

Quote:

Originally Posted by elizah72

Yes... if given the option of jaqua99's butt or a vid of him eating dirt, I'll definitely take the eating dirt Now if you were to wager Tom Hiddleston's butt, well that, my friend, is another story entirely.

but again I won't hold you to anything in a year's time when you are proven to be wrong. I just hope you aren't getting your hopes up too much for a certain gigantic hot head to show up in Thor 2.

and that's why I'm leaning towards Surtur probably being saved for Thor 3. There is enough stuff going on without him and I think there are very very plausible reasons for Algrim changing if certain spoilers pan out, and certain ideas here pan out here. And plus it seems like, judging by the amount of enthusiasm some fans have for him, that Surtur is like Thanos to the established fandom and probably should be the major big baddie in his own movie, not shared with Malekith and Kurse and dark elves, and whatever Loki gets up to, etc...

okay, first of all, you don't know me, so for all you know, I could have the best butt the world has ever seen!

And secondly. there is a lot going on. But based on the synopsis, it suggests that there is *someone* else.

"a shadowy enemy that predates the universe itself"

"an enemy that even odin and asgard cannot withstand"

that sounds like surtur. While I don't agree with cherokeesam that Surtur will be the final battle of the movie, i thinkk he will have a presence, through out the movie. More so than thanos did in avengers 1, but he will have a presence, and an after credit scene leading into avengers 3. Leading ultimately to the death of odin, loki's redemption (I still say Kurse will kill malekith) and thor becoming king

One little comment: in the books, Malekith had Algrim square off against Thor. Late in the fight, he plunged them both down to where there was some molten lava. Thor escapes via Mjolnir, Algrim, not so much. (I guess his armor saves him.) Enter the Beyonder, who heals him and changes him into Kurse.

Being set up for a what would be a certain death were it not for a little deus ex machina is a little more severe than being "messed with". And a lot of the subsequent story is about Kurse charging around in New York or Hel or wherever trying to get at whomever he perceives is responsible. So for Kurse not to pursue that is kind of pulling a long thread out of this tapestry.

Bingo. Idk if that is what you are saying. But Kurse has a reason to hate malekith.

Malekith and Kurse are in this movie. And it is given an oppritunity for the fans to sympathize with a villain, and who can have a great character arc and come full circle. That is something that SHOULD be capitalized on, and shouldn't be ignored just so loki can have a magic fight defeating malekith.

Kurse is new, malekith is new, to eliminate Kurse's motive is, in my opinion, a mistake

I think we've beat this dead horse enough at this point. Since we're not going to agree (at this point) on it, we will just have to wait and see if anything else comes out about the big baddies in this movie in the coming months and then discuss further. However, I still say...

"a shadowy enemy that predates the universe itself"

"an enemy that even odin and asgard cannot withstand"

both of those could easily not be Surtur but linked to...

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

whatever it is possesses Jane (IF that is true). Now does Surtur possess people in the comics? It doesnt sound like it from what I know about it, but maybe you know a story where this has happened.

I think we've beat this dead horse enough at this point. Since we're not going to agree (at this point) on it, we will just have to wait and see if anything else comes out about the big baddies in this movie in the coming months and then discuss further. However, I still say...

"a shadowy enemy that predates the universe itself"

"an enemy that even odin and asgard cannot withstand"

both of those could easily not be Surtur but linked to...

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

whatever it is possesses Jane (IF that is true). Now does Surtur possess people in the comics? It doesnt sound like it from what I know about it, but maybe you know a story where this has happened.

To be honest, I really don't know. Part of me says no. He doesn't seem like the type to do that, but maybe. Part of me would say it could be malekith?

Think that could be Kurse? Whoever he his, he sort of looks from the pic like he could be fighting alongside Thor there, and he could be CGI'd some to look bigger and add some effects to make the costume more impressive. (which is what they did with the Frost Giants in Thor)

Think that could be Kurse? Whoever he his, he sort of looks from the pic like he could be fighting alongside Thor there, and he could be CGI'd some to look bigger and add some effects to make the costume more impressive. (which is what they did with the Frost Giants in Thor)

I think you're on to something there.
Closer inspection reveals what looks to be mo-cap ping-pong balls on his armor, and this Dark Elf is definitely fighting alongside Thor instead of against him. Pretty safe bet that's our first look at Kurse right there, pre-CGI enhancement.

I think you're on to something there.
Closer inspection reveals what looks to be mo-cap ping-pong balls on his armor, and this Dark Elf is definitely fighting alongside Thor instead of against him. Pretty safe bet that's our first look at Kurse right there, pre-CGI enhancement.

not sure I see the ping pong balls on the armor there but I thought there might be a sort of skull symbol on his chest which is what made me wonder... (I can't believe I am the only one who wondered this though? Has this been discussed?)

and yes, he really looks like he's fighting alongside, not sneaking up on Thor.

not sure I see the ping pong balls on the armor there but I thought there might be a sort of skull symbol on his chest which is what made me wonder... (I can't believe I am the only one who wondered this though? Has this been discussed?)

and yes, he really looks like he's fighting alongside, not sneaking up on Thor.

Those might not be "ping-pong balls" after all, at second look --- that photo has a lot of weird black polka dots splattered all over, but that might be dirt that's being kicked up during the scene or something. I dunno.

Anyhow, definitely looks like the actor under that helmet is very dark-skinned; could just be makeup if they're officially making the Dark Elves "dark" (they weren't in the comics), but I'm inclined to believe that's Triple A after all.

One little comment: in the books, Malekith had Algrim square off against Thor. Late in the fight, he plunged them both down to where there was some molten lava. Thor escapes via Mjolnir, Algrim, not so much. (I guess his armor saves him.) Enter the Beyonder, who heals him and changes him into Kurse.

Being set up for a what would be a certain death were it not for a little deus ex machina is a little more severe than being "messed with". And a lot of the subsequent story is about Kurse charging around in New York or Hel or wherever trying to get at whomever he perceives is responsible. So for Kurse not to pursue that is kind of pulling a long thread out of this tapestry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaqua99

Bingo. Idk if that is what you are saying. But Kurse has a reason to hate malekith.

Yes. As I understand, he spends a good portion of the book ripping apart various realms trying to get at those whom he holds responsible for what was done to him. To take that away is a bigger change than it appears on the surface.

(Wow! I earned a "bingo" from you! )

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaqua99

Malekith and Kurse are in this movie. And it is given an oppritunity for the fans to sympathize with a villain, and who can have a great character arc and come full circle. That is something that SHOULD be capitalized on, and shouldn't be ignored just so loki can have a magic fight defeating malekith.

It might be a lot of fun to have a(some) magic fight(s), though. Not necessarily at the Kurse/Malekith denouement. . . .