That Wilber video looks very suspicious to me. I would like to see him repeat that under the supervision of a certified neurologist and James (The Amazing) Randi and using a real, calibrated EEG machine and electrodes instead of that toy in the video. Did he buy that from Scientology, Inc.?

Why did Wilber not sit in the full lotus position during his "exhibition"? Isn't that the supposedly optimum position for meditation?

Great post, and not just because you point out some of Ken Wilber's BS. I have a friend like this. He got into "Zen" a couple of years ago, and whenever I try to have a discussion with him about it (or he tries to have one with me), all he ever brings up are these--for lack of a better term--altered states of consciousness he supposedly experienced while meditating, or whatever. I always get the feeling that he's trying to show that he's "farther along" than I am, or something--and he might be, but I don't really care. That's not why I do what I do, or practice what I practice... or at least that's what I keep telling myself.

It annoys me to see someone like Ken Wilber who does tricks — ones that nobody can ever even verify he’s accomplished, by the way — make tons more money than that street juggler down on Venice Beach who does something far cooler. I guess people are impressed by imaginary stuff.

I don’t see any great value in most of what passes for “altered states of consciousness.” Every possible state of altered consciousness is contained within this state of consciousness you possess right at this very moment.

It’s true we are evolutionarily developed to filter consciousness in a particular way. And most of us assume that this particular way is the only way available. There are methods by which you can learn to filter your consciousness in different ways. And perhaps there is some minor value in knowing that there are other ways of filtering things. But it’s just another sort of filter. It’s the difference between looking at the world through rose-tinted glasses and looking at the world through green-tinted glasses. You’re not getting the true picture either way.

So maybe Ken Wilber really can trance out on Delta waves. I’m more impressed with the guy who can juggle butcher’s knives on a balance board. Look at both videos. Honestly, which one is more impressive to you?

The Buddha, you know that really famous guy that a lot of bald people wearing bright robes seem to like a lot, well that guy was visiting the great city of the west know as ‘the city that never sleeps.’ Awesome city by the way, if you haven’t been there you should check it out. Anyway, the Blessed one (he goes by a lot of names so just bear with me) was traveling amidst the city with a group of bald headed people, I guess they are called monks, but that doesn’t really matter. I don’t know much about this Buddha character, but there was something awesome about him, he just always seem so at ease and peaceful. Man, I wish I knew what he did. Anyhow, the Blessed one entered a great park in the middle of the great city, found a nice spot under the shade of a tree and calmly took a seat and started doing that no moving, staying still thing he seems to like to do. Between you and me seems real boring, but hey if it works for you I’m cool with it.

So, this young guy, who I later found out was named Seiryu, approached the Buddha. With great respect he got on one knee, folded his hands and addressed the Buddha thus:

“How wonderful it is that the Tathagatha has come to our city and we now have the chance to hear the profound Dharma from the Tathagatha Himself. Please expound on how can one who wished to stop the mind of thoughts and to keep the body still do so in a city of so much activity and movement. I pray to hear what the Blessed one has to say.” He sounded like a kiss up to me. So Buddha said this:

“This city is vast and beautiful, is it not?”

“It is indeed, World Honored One"

“This city is also loud and constantly moving; is it not?”

“It is indeed, World Honored One”

“What makes this city vast and beautiful is that it is loud and constantly moving; is it not?”

“Yes, I see this to be true as well, World Honored One”

“Whereas, if you were to stop all movement of the city and keep it still, would it remain the same vast and beautiful city?

“No, World Honored One, it would not.”

"Well, so is true of the mind and body which are vast and beautiful, yet loud and constantly moving. If you were to stop with force any of these would you still be said to have a mind and body?”

“No, World Honored One, it seems that I would not”

“Listen here,” the Buddha was about to get it on, “one should go about as thus; find stillness in activity, activity in stillness. If one can do this one will find unbounded liberation. And how can one find stillness in activity and activity in stillness? When one goes about in the city, it is not the city that disturbs us, it is our mind that is too active that disturbs us. But go out into the city with a still mind and one will be at peace, going out into a city with stillness of the mind one finds stillness in activity. This is how the Tathagatha moves around in the world of men.

“And when one is doing the practice of all the Buddhas of the three times one should have great activity. When the body is still one should have the great activity of being mindful and alert, of seeing into the true nature of things, of being fully aware of all bodily and mental sensations. It is in this way that one finds activity in stillness. Remember well, find stillness in activity, activity in stillness. Perverse one pointedly in this and one will find unbounded liberation. This is how the Tathagatha moves into the world within.”

Now just between you and me I ain’t understand a word of that, but it sounded awesome to me, Buddha just had that way of speaking. But that Seiryu guy seemed to understand what was said for the light of wisdom rose up in him. He bowed with deep gratitude to the Blessed One and sat down to his side. After a while The Buddha calmly got up and entered back into the world of activity with stillness. For this is how The Buddha does it.

Anyway, I’m off now, I’m gonna to hang around this Buddha guy a little longer, there seems to be something to this.

I meditate in order to be done with all these altered states. Everyday awareness is an altered state. It's altered by our cravings. And unusually altered states such as one can attain through meditation are also altered by our craving. What's that got to do with enlightenment?

Bring craving to an end, and we know ourselves in our unaltered, unconditional reality, which isn't a state at all, and isn't achieved, except in the negative sense of not altering ourselves anymore.

Day of Mindfulness with Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh & and the International delegation of Monks and Nuns from Europe, Asia and United States.

We are happy to let you know that there will be a Day of Mindfulness at Magnolia Grove Monastery on Sunday October 2nd, 2011. Our teacher Thich Nhat Hanh and about 80 monks and nuns will be present. It will also be the last day of our 5-day retreat “Cultivating the Mind of Love” (from September 28th to October 2nd), so about 700 retreatants will also already be at the monastery. It will be a great opportunity for us to practice Mindfulness together. The powerful collective energy of the community will be healing and transformative for every one of us. Please do your best to attend this special day. Please bring your family and friends with you, too.

Because this is the first time our monastic community is organizing these major events in Magnolia Grove Monastery, we will have major expenses in order to better welcome our friends to these events. Therefore, we ask that you kindly make a small donation of $30 or more (per adult) to help us with these preparations.

All donations are tax deductible and may be sent by post to Magnolia Grove Monastery at the address below, or offered in person on the Day of Mindfulness.

Strawberry Lake Christian Retreat is a little slice of Heaven...a place for your personal getaway with God.

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"Meditation is not a way to enlightenment, Nor is it a method of achieving anything at all. It is peace itself. It is the actualization of wisdom, The ultimate truth of the oneness of all things." - Dogen

wisdom, eh?

do you lose that when your wisdom teeth are extracted.

wisdom was a word like the mormon word "elder." it means you are old enough to participate in the community as an adult (back when civilization was somewhat more somber and children were put out in winter to die...)

Wilber is maybe doing something like Jack Schwartz did before, he claimed he could control pain and heal his body through thought, having discovered this as a PoW in WW2, wonderful stuff and very useful i'm sure as Gniz says, especially in a prisoner of war camp, BUT it sure ain't zazen, altered states can have their uses but as broken yogi says the unaltered state is where it's at... All this talk of folk being ahead of other folks - almost as if there's somewhere we're trying to get to...

The Emlightenment Olympic Games inLomdom 2012. All the top brainwave stoppers and kundaliniorgasmic fornicators will be there, as well as the usual Zenfornicators. If Brad can get his dick up to par, he's invited tojoin team Big Mind TM. Their motto- It takes a Big Mind to Get a BigDick.

A lot of people are autistic An3drew. Some of them live intheir own world and throw stonesat the passing samsara. Othersperseverate on the words of famous Zen personalities. Someself stimulate by creating verticallines of words.

"A lot of people are autistic Andrew. Some of them live intheir own world and throw stonesat the passing samsara. Othersperseverate on the words of famous Zen personalities. Someself stimulate by creating verticallines of words."

historically zen itself has had "zen masters" who have argued very strongly against sitting, presumably they observed the same mental crippling that seems to be so apparent on this board amongst sitters

sitting can only appear reasonable if you are blind to what it is a facsimile of

its part of your disease that what i just said will wash right over you !

Dude, where are YOUR manners? You're spamming this thing, and for what? Now you are challenging people? Why? Go bore your analyst, or dog, or maybe stare down the wall for awhile and give yourself and everyone else a well-deserved break.

"one of the most important provisions is not to pass on my criticisms of other people on other boards to them, or even that i have criticised them, or, as usually is the case, made some telling insult about them that exposes their stupidity"

Brad? Really? Why bother moderating comments when you let this latest stuff through? What is the point? At least before there was something admirable about your no-censoring position. Now there is nothing. you suck just like any other self-important morality cop.

You are the first poster on this comments section whose posts make me feel that I'd have to be careful in my interactions with you if I found out you lived next door to me. That just the impression I've formed, of course.

You might be a relatively grounded human being on terra firma, but I don't think I'm alone in feeling a little concerned for the real Andrew out there.

Non-anonymous commenters have often engaged in dialogue with or openly about a person who appears to be 'over-cooking' things here. And we can all get a little cooked-up now and again - or at least present ourselves in such a way.

Last time you were here you ended up deleting your posts when regulars attempted sincerely to respond to your views.

Don't you think it's odd that nearly all of your critics are anonymous, considering the tone and content of your posts? Your highly idiosyncratic take on Dogen, for example, I would usually expect to induce fulsome debate.

I think it would be a shame if you were indeed putting people off responding to you because of the impression they form from your style of address.

Great post. With all meditative practices these days I ask myself whether it has increased the quality of my life and those I interact with. I used to really get into reaching "higher states" of meditation and certainly experienced lots of different things in various retreats. It was kinda fun but it wasnt until I meet a teacher who showed me a more integrated way of taking my practice off the cushion that I could actually say things changed. Anyway, thanks for the post.

Perhaps some people you are being hard on are learning by their own hard way too. It must be difficult being a rigid, American Schizophrenic Zenite. I guess it has its advantages too, though. One never can be sure.