Over the past few days almost 20 million IP addresses were blocked in the country by Russia's communications watchdog Roskomnadzor, in an attempt to deny users access to Telegram messenger, which has refused to cooperate with the country's FSB (ex. KGB) security agency to provide secret keys to user's encrypted messages.

Apparently Telegram is deploying connection proxies across various cloud providers to allow people to continue using the program evading the blocks of Telegram's own AS and IPs, and Roskomnadzor in response cuts all access to those providers entirely.

If you as a hosting company get any request to block or remove services or IPs used by Telegram LLC, please do not cooperate with those requests, do not support stifling of users' privacy and freedoms which has been condemned by the UN. Even if you get your networks blocked in Russia, this has went to such scale that this can't continue for long, they will have to step back eventually, just do not support them and don't let them "win" easily.

Well if Telegram choose to deploy a tiny reverse proxy on Google App Engine they would be accessible via any Google Global Cache's IP, which will put Putin in the same dilemma of China - to block Google completely or not.

It took China a couple of years to reach the conclusion of blocking Google head to tail; Wonder what would happen next.

@cnbeining said:
Well if Telegram choose to deploy a tiny reverse proxy on Google App Engine they would be accessible via any Google Global Cache's IP, which will put Putin in the same dilemma of China - to block Google completely or not.

It took China a couple of years to reach the conclusion of blocking Google head to tail; Wonder what would happen next.

Straight stupidity going on here from both China and Russia.

That type of governing is not sustainable forever.

EDIT: Plus the smarter people get around all of these blocks anyways, so what even is the point? People who want access to blocked things get it.

YokedEgg said: smarter people get around all of these blocks anyways, so what even is the point? People who want access to blocked things get it

Many were using VPNs through a VPS on Digital Ocean or Hetzner to do just that. Having those also blocked, came as an unpleasant surprise. Now people need to hastily look for other options -- with no guarantee those will stay available. This feels like a war with each bombshell hitting closer and closer. I host my stuff on OVH, and Online.net has already been blocked. Nobody knows who's next. And this is really an uncharted territory, I don't think even China just blocks millions of IPs of hosting providers entirely.

@cnbeining said:
Well if Telegram choose to deploy a tiny reverse proxy on Google App Engine they would be accessible via any Google Global Cache's IP, which will put Putin in the same dilemma of China - to block Google completely or not.

It took China a couple of years to reach the conclusion of blocking Google head to tail; Wonder what would happen next.

Straight stupidity going on here from both China and Russia.

That type of governing is not sustainable forever.

EDIT: Plus the smarter people get around all of these blocks anyways, so what even is the point? People who want access to blocked things get it.

@cnbeining said:
Well if Telegram choose to deploy a tiny reverse proxy on Google App Engine they would be accessible via any Google Global Cache's IP, which will put Putin in the same dilemma of China - to block Google completely or not.

It took China a couple of years to reach the conclusion of blocking Google head to tail; Wonder what would happen next.

Straight stupidity going on here from both China and Russia.

That type of governing is not sustainable forever.

EDIT: Plus the smarter people get around all of these blocks anyways, so what even is the point? People who want access to blocked things get it.

FYI after 10 years of censorship the generation after me (whose age is <15) is having problem recognizing Google - they would believe that a world without Google, FB, Twitter, Dropbox is normal.

10 years ago I was quite positive about the censorship. But damn we are losing this war. Damn.

@cnbeining said:
Well if Telegram choose to deploy a tiny reverse proxy on Google App Engine they would be accessible via any Google Global Cache's IP, which will put Putin in the same dilemma of China - to block Google completely or not.

It took China a couple of years to reach the conclusion of blocking Google head to tail; Wonder what would happen next.

Straight stupidity going on here from both China and Russia.

That type of governing is not sustainable forever.

EDIT: Plus the smarter people get around all of these blocks anyways, so what even is the point? People who want access to blocked things get it.

I heard a few weeks ago they were planning to outlaw the use of VPN.

Well, the point is to stay undetected.

Where there is demand, a solution will be supplied by intelligent engineers. There's always a way around.

@cnbeining said:
Well if Telegram choose to deploy a tiny reverse proxy on Google App Engine they would be accessible via any Google Global Cache's IP, which will put Putin in the same dilemma of China - to block Google completely or not.

It took China a couple of years to reach the conclusion of blocking Google head to tail; Wonder what would happen next.

Straight stupidity going on here from both China and Russia.

That type of governing is not sustainable forever.

EDIT: Plus the smarter people get around all of these blocks anyways, so what even is the point? People who want access to blocked things get it.

FYI after 10 years of censorship the generation after me (whose age is <15) is having problem recognizing Google - they would believe that a world without Google, FB, Twitter, Dropbox is normal.

10 years ago I was quite positive about the censorship. But damn we are losing this war. Damn.

It's times like this I appreciate living in the United States regardless the flaws in my own country.

I don't think our culture would ever allow that blatant of censorship, it still exists, but we proactively fight it.

@cnbeining said:
Well if Telegram choose to deploy a tiny reverse proxy on Google App Engine they would be accessible via any Google Global Cache's IP, which will put Putin in the same dilemma of China - to block Google completely or not.

It took China a couple of years to reach the conclusion of blocking Google head to tail; Wonder what would happen next.

Straight stupidity going on here from both China and Russia.

That type of governing is not sustainable forever.

EDIT: Plus the smarter people get around all of these blocks anyways, so what even is the point? People who want access to blocked things get it.

FYI after 10 years of censorship the generation after me (whose age is <15) is having problem recognizing Google - they would believe that a world without Google, FB, Twitter, Dropbox is normal.

10 years ago I was quite positive about the censorship. But damn we are losing this war. Damn.

It's times like this I appreciate living in the United States regardless the flaws in my own country.

I don't think our culture would ever allow that blatant of censorship, it still exists, but we proactively fight it.

I think the friendly reminder for those who lives in countries who does not censor information so bad is: freedom from censorship is a right, while in some parts of the world such right is treated as a privilege . I am feeling sorry that some people still have to fight for this.

YokedEgg said: Straight stupidity going on here from both China and Russia.

That type of governing is not sustainable forever.

Why do you say this? I definitely don't support what Russia and China do, but I think there is a naive (mis)understanding in the West about the social contract that binds Russians and Chinese to their governments.

People in Russia and China generally don't care specifically about some abstract notion of freedom, and they aren't "yearning" as "huddled masses" as that traditional American imagery depicts those in non-democracies.

China has experienced massive economic growth under the heavy hand of the State, and hundreds of millions have been lifted out of poverty. You could argue that they could do even better under democracy. But Russians' standard of living has dramatically improved under authoritarianism v. the chaos and poverty caused by its fledgling democracy in the 90s. (Rising price of oil helped too.)

The State isn't as unpopular in those places as many Westerners would believe, and it certainly has a significant amount of genuine local support, too. And LET isn't democratic either, and neither are most U.S. tech companies whose founders usually hoard majority voting rights, even if not owning majority shares.

YokedEgg said: Straight stupidity going on here from both China and Russia.

That type of governing is not sustainable forever.

Why do you say this? I definitely don't support what Russia and China do, but I think there is a naive (mis)understanding in the West about the social contract that binds Russians and Chinese to their governments.

People in Russia and China generally don't care specifically about some abstract notion of freedom, and they aren't "yearning" as "huddled masses" as that traditional American imagery depicts those in non-democracies.

China has experienced massive economic growth under the heavy hand of the State, and hundreds of millions have been lifted out of poverty. You could argue that they could do even better under democracy. But Russians' standard of living has dramatically improved under authoritarianism v. the chaos and poverty caused by its fledgling democracy in the 90s. (Rising price of oil helped too.)

The State isn't as unpopular in those places as many Westerners would believe, and it certainly has a significant amount of genuine local support, too. And LET isn't democratic either, and neither are most U.S. tech companies whose founders usually hoard majority voting rights, even if not owning majority shares.

The Russians do also ignore the real problems and live in some double standard world; on the RIPE mailing list first - days before the ban - move of RIPE to eg. Moscow as it would be "way cheaper" was suggested, and once this blocks started Russians got into ideas of RIPE enforcing on some way to remove these.

This is plain delusional thinking, if you do not like the laws have them changed (and the Russians - especially at RIPE - should complain less, in Iran half of the internet simply does not work).

And stop calling me "Russophobe" when i explain you a day before your gov censors half of the internet that Russia is not suitable in any imaginable way for an organisation as RIPE. Because i'm not, your government and laws just simply suck, how much of this is your own fault is the only point to argue about.

jiggawattz said: Why do you say this? I definitely don't support what Russia and China do, but I think there is a naive (mis)understanding in the West about the social contract that binds Russians and Chinese to their governments.

Sure. But then they should please stop fucking complaining how the gov censors and "limits rights". You cannot have both sides, decide for one.

jackb said: or had their troops go on holiday in a neighbouring country with their tanks.

Sorry but in political science this is just not a fair comparison - a government of a larger country has very different interests than even the most globalised ultra-size companies (eg. Samsung in it's entirety, which basically runs Korea).

To your example... the CEOs of VKontakte and other Russian IT magnates (the Telegram investor was active with VK since pretty much beginning btw) did not run people over with tanks either, or invade someone. They are generally liberal people which do not like the system a lot but have to work with it on a daily basis.

I also do not see any reason to be democratic in my company, it is mine after all. You do not have to work for me or do business with me if you do not want to, very simple.

This is not a Western or Eastern thought process, more a human trait of keeping control - worker owned companies are a thing in both East and West, as are companies based on similar shared values (eg. environment protection or other social causes), all of this things exist globally.

Lastly let me note the "bastion of freedom of business" US has some very anti-capitalist laws, it is unthinkable that our Parliament/Senate cites me to answer questions about how my business operates in a public "roast" held by some old guys which do nothing else than legal insider trading all year.

I have a feeling that this nonsense in the east of my country will never cease. Already 4 years have passed, it can so in a depression and drive. You expect surprises what you do not know when will happen and what will happen.

jackb said: LET administrators and US tech companies haven't ran over & shot students in a square with tanks, or had their troops go on holiday in a neighbouring country with their tanks.

Of course. Security is not the responsibility of LET administrators or U.S. tech companies - it is the responsibility of the State.

I see little point in defending these governments. Anything else is more worthy of your time.

The problem is that these governments have real and significant support domestically. Authoritarianism is spreading. 10 years ago Belarus was Europe's last dictatorship. Since then, Poland and Hungary have veered autocratic. The only bright spot in democratization is Uzbekistan really. And where the fuck is that country?

William said: Lastly let me note the "bastion of freedom of business" US has some very anti-capitalist laws, it is unthinkable that our Parliament/Senate cites me to answer questions about how my business operates in a public "roast" held by some old guys which do nothing else than legal insider trading all year.

Shkreli, Zuckerberg (only fits half as example due to nature, but was latest) and all other "house committee hearings" (and don't forget the senate) on various 'issues' that subpoena uselessly on thin legal basis to, well, roast business owners.

They and especially the funny Chavez guy should keep to roasting gov, very funny to watch on YT. Anything else is not their problem and especially private corporations are not.