Cold war: U.S. tells Russia to give back Snowden, or else

posted at 9:01 pm on June 24, 2013 by Allahpundit

Does this mean Snowden really did get on a plane to Russia? Because if it turns out he didn’t and the whole Russia-to-Cuba-to-Ecuador thing was just a ruse, then we should dismantle the NSA on principle. If they can’t locate America’s most wanted man, who can’t bear to be apart from his computer, after he’s absconded with a treasure trove of intelligence, then they’re not so useful that we need to keep this eye in the sky afloat.

“They are on notice with respect to our desires,” Kerry said. “It would be deeply troubling if they have adequate notice and notwithstanding that they make a willful decision to ignore that and not live within the standards of the law.

The U.S. has transferred seven prisoners to Russia over the last two years, Kerry said, and the U.S. expects reciprocity. He also took a shot at China and Russia’s treatment of freedom of speech online…

A State Department official said Monday that as far as the U.S. government knows, Snowden is still in Russia and while the State Department is frantically contacting several governments about Snowden, Russia is the primary focus. The State Department is laying out a range of consequences for the Russians if they don’t cooperate and the Russians seem to be holding Snowden in Moscow while they consider their response to Washington, the official said…

To drive home that point, several senior officials have reached out to their Russian counterparts over the last 24 hours. FBI Director Robert Mueller has called his Russian counterpart at the FSB twice today, an administration official said Monday. Deputy Secretary of State Bill Burns and Ambassador to Russia Mike McFaul, a former senior White House official, have also been working the issue hard with their Russian contacts, the official said.

If I were Putin I’d hand him over, after “debriefing” him and his hard drives thoroughly, of course. What benefit is there to holding him once you’ve gotten what you need from him? They’ve already scored big propaganda points by humiliating Obama and we do, of course, have ways of making life more difficult for Moscow if they drag this out. Better to give him up as a “goodwill” gesture, to ensure that we’ll continue to extradite prisoners that they want and, maybe, be a bit more conciliatory on Syria than we’ve been lately. Frankly, Putin might relish the thought of “partnering” with Obama in seeing someone viewed by many Americans as a heroic dissident sent to prison. That’ll come in handy the next time the State Department accuses Moscow of taking political prisoners and persecuting regime critics.

First, though, comes the “extraction.” And it is, almost certainly, coming:

“Russian intelligence and counter-intelligence will have a lot to ask such a well-informed person. I have no doubt that this will be done,” a Russian special services veteran told the Interfax news agency on Sunday on condition of anonymity.

“I am sure that Snowden will have had a busy evening and a sleepless night,” the source added of the American’s reported stayover Sunday night in the transit zone of Moscow’s Sheremetyevo airport after landing from Hong Kong.

“Snowden presents a lot of interest for the FSB (security service). He can give information on technical aspects of intercepting data,” said Russian security expert and commentator for the Novaya Gazeta newspaper Pavel Felgenhauer.

“A debriefing in the presence of technical specialists takes a lot of time,” Felgenhauer told AFP, suggesting that interviews with Russian secret services could take place in a third country.

I can’t think of a reason why ruthless intel services like Russia’s and China’s wouldn’t be as rough as they need to be with this guy to get him to turn over what he has. He’s already revealed that the NSA spied on Medvedev at the G20 summit a few years ago and hacked into Chinese computers. Both regimes now have a national interest in finding out what he knows, which they can sell to their respective publics just in case the locals take an interest Snowden’s fate. This is why, for the life of me, I can’t understand why Snowden’s defenders insist that he hasn’t compromised national security in what he’s done. Even if that’s true so far, he claims to know much more than what he’s leaked; Glenn Greenwald’s giddily declared many times that more leaks are coming. National intelligence sources are telling ABC this afternoon that, in fact, if Snowden made public everything he knows, it could deal a “potentially devastating blow” to U.S. security. Follow the last link and read at least the section titled “Technical Roadmap of the U.S. Surveillance Network.” If they’re telling the truth, which is debatable, the security lapse in making this stuff available to an IT guy is unimaginably gigantic.

Is there any scenario, realistically, in which Russia or China or whoever ends up getting him doesn’t put the screws to him to find out what he knows? If someone fled from Russia or China to the U.S. with the kinds of secrets about them that Snowden has about the U.S., wouldn’t you hope/expect the FBI or CIA would “debrief” that guy at length? Either you believe (a) that Snowden doesn’t know much and therefore can’t hurt U.S. interests — and I’m not sure why anyone would think that at this point — or (b) that Snowden knows a lot and therefore it’s extremely dangerous for him to be placing himself within arm’s reach of Russian and Chinese intelligence. Either the whole FISA/PRISM/Snowden storyline is no big deal because it’s all small potatoes or it’s a very big deal, in which case we have a very, very big national-security problem. Pick one.

Blowback

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“They are on notice with respect to our desires,” Kerry said. “It would be deeply troubling if they have adequate notice and notwithstanding that they make a willful decision to ignore that and not live within the standards of the law.

Says the traitor who used Carter’s pardon of draft dodgers to get his DD214 changed to “honorable discharge”.

It would be idiocy for Putin to give Snowden up. The result would be to dry up all future intelligence windfalls of this type. He will, instead, give him a dacha in the country and a bevy of pretty girls to keep him company.

As for Obama and Kerry, Putin has already made clear his “terror” of what they might do. Obama’s going to unilaterally disarm anyway, so Putin (or the Chinese) will shortly be the only big dog on the block.

One of these guys thinks the government should be in control of everything, uses that government to squash liberty and his political opponents, and spies on all of the citizens in his nation uses their illegally gained personal information against them. His heroes are Lenin, Stalin, and Mao.

One of these guys thinks the government should be in control of everything, uses that government to squash liberty and his political opponents, and spies on all of the citizens in his nation uses their illegally gained personal information against them. His heroes are Lenin, Stalin, and Mao.

If I were Putin I’d hand him over, after “debriefing” him and his hard drives thoroughly, of course. What benefit is there to holding him once you’ve gotten what you need from him?

You mean another chance to embarrass a presidency that has no intention of doing more than babbling?? Are you serious?

What benefit is there to holding him

There’s at least two weeks or maybe a month’s worth of humiliation to dump on America and it’s spineless president and Putin’s not going to waste a single minute of ignoring that deliciously whining president and secretary of state.

National intelligence sources are telling ABC this afternoon that, in fact, if Snowden made public everything he knows, it could deal a “potentially devastating blow” to U.S. security. Follow the last link and read at least the section titled “Technical Roadmap of the U.S. Surveillance Network.”

I guess I’m just a dumb hick, but If I write a whole article about how bad Snowden is for leaking the inner workings of the NSA and then I use a link to an article that is based off of leaks to beef up my argument about how leaks are evil…. what that be considered sophistry?

That’s silly. Do you really think the Russians and Chinese didn’t already know this? Even with the very generalized info Snowden gave out at the beginning, the Russians and Chinese certainly figured this out, if they didn’t know it already, which is very very doubtful.

Dreadnought on June 24, 2013 at 9:38 PM

This is the punch line nobody gets. What if both Chinese External Intelligence (used to be the “New China News Agency” at 15 Bow String Alley, Peking) and the FSB didn’t bother doing more than a cursory inter on Snowden because they already had access to most of the data he had, or at least knew how to get it if they wanted it?

If an outside contractor IT guy can get data to the degree that Snowden claims, the only reasonable conclusion is that “No Such Agency”‘s security is virtually non-existent. Which means that it’s a good two-dollar bet that they’ve already been penetrated, probably by somebody doing a Jonathan Pollard- or worse, a John Walker.

Not to mention the possibility of purely computer-based breaches, i.e. hacking. Again, if an IT contractor has that much access, their security sucks.

The real story here might not be Snowden. It might be these two things;

1. The Russian and Chinese intelligence services may have penetrated our most super-secret “spy” agency to a degree that makes the Venona intercepts look like a couple of kids playing “I Spy”.

2. Said super-spy outfit was so damned busy spying on Americans that they were too wrapped up in themselves to notice.

clear ether

eon

eon on June 24, 2013 at 10:01 PM

Yes. The Chinese certainly didn’t try to keep him around very long, did they? Snowden’s just a propaganda tool for them and the Russians. I’ll bet the Russians and Chinese already know anything he could possibly tell them.

I doubt the shiny-object, distraction argument, because this is all so un-controlled. Nobody knows what Snowden has. Reports say he has 4 laptops (presumably full of info). If so, even Snowden doesn’t know what is on them (Windows 95, if usual government standards apply).

His personal knowledge may not be that valuable, because real intelligence is about intentions, not data. Does Snowden know the detailed intentions of the US leadership? Doubtful. But I am sure the Russians will enjoy copying the disks and perusing the content (if only to validate their existing espionage).

Note that this international snoopathon has also pissed off large parts of the world – most internet users, in fact. Only the intelligence oligarchies of old Europe still see merit in this lust for data about anything other than obvious threats from actual mortal enemies.

Meanwhile Snowden’s plane from Russia to Cuba left without him, full of disappointed journalists, some of whom accused the other of being Snowden. It comic, really.

He’s an IT administrator. He knows how to configure and patch computer systems. He also has an assload full of NSA files that he stole. But he isn’t an expert on the contents of those files. He just has them and surely knows that he will have to provide them to anyone who helps him. That’s his ticket. I think that he’s cut a deal — asylum for the files, and he has his fingers crossed that they honor the deal and don’t just hand him over or torture him. But I doubt that he has any information other than what’s on those drives.

Funny how the story is all about Snowden, and not about how the US government is spying on honest American citizens – whom 0bama calls “domestic terrorists” because they’re not on board with his progressive agenda.

Snowden is the ultimate “look, squirrel!”

Rebar on June 24, 2013 at 9:40 PM

I could care less about Snowden. When I think of the enemies of America, foreign and domestic, Snowden doesn’t even make the top 100.

And if Russia makes Obama really mad he might reduce our nuclear arsenal by only half of what he previously stated.

Has the United States ever looked so foolish and weak? I can’t remember a time when the stakes were so high and the response so inept.

This traitor might very well have a trove of information on our entire intelligence network, a list of people that work for the NSA and we are asking Russia, “pretty please” to hand him over? Meanwhile, they are “debriefing” him, have access to his materials and are doing tremendous damage to our intelligence gathering. In the end, this all makes every last one of us less safe.

The sad part is that much of it is info on ourselves. Normally you spy on other countries, and have to work and bleed to get at the information. When the classified info inevitably comes out, as it always does eventually, at least it is imperfect cobbled together info on our enemies.

This is entirely different. A sweeping general warrant of all phone calls, which the government promises not to look at. Unlike our enemies. Clean perfect records, which our enemies will go through with a fine tooth comb. The sheer idiocy and hubris boggles the mind.

All in all as sad and pathetic as this is ,I find rather comical. The largest spy network spying on Americans has been spied on and they cannot find the perp. Not only can they not locate him our enemies are mocking us while the president gives an ultimatum. Of course Chris Mathews will say Obama is playing just about as perfect as a president could-he’s so cool and calm and cerebral.

Let’s not forget that our president has advocated for lessening America’s power and influence in the world. This whole incident has helped him to achieve that goal, while projecting an “Oopsie, how could that have happened?” facade.

Once again, the question is, is BO an incompetent boob or a malevolent force?

Obama came into office with the announced intention that he was going to make the rest of the world love us again…after that nasty ole G.W. Bush guy made all of them supposedly hate us.

What Obama cannot grasp is the most fundamental rule of human relations (and by extension, foreign relations) to wit; you cannot love someone if you do not respect them first.

Respect for the United States of late is abundantly missing.

And, one could easily argue, for some very valid reasons.

coldwarrior on June 24, 2013 at 10:22 PM

He doesn’t understand that because he has no healthy self-respect, just perverse and perverted egotism from a lifetime of unjustified puffery. Deep down, he knows he’s been over-promoted, which is why he’s so thin-skinned about criticism.

I’d love to see Putin come out and say they are giving Snowden asylum because he knows he could never get a fair trial in the USA and would probably be killed by the govt before he even got a chance at a trial.

VegasRick on June 24, 2013 at 10:15 PM

Or sent to prison to rot like political prisoner and scapegoat Sam Bacile (who made the Muslim parody).

“They are on notice with respect to our desires,” Kerry said. “It would be deeply troubling if they have adequate notice and notwithstanding that they make a willful decision to ignore that and not live within the standards of the law.
Says the traitor who used Carter’s pardon of draft dodgers to get his DD214 changed to “honorable discharge”.

txhsmom on June 24, 2013 at 10:24 PM

Isn’t it ironic to hear Kerry, the NVA collaborator, castigating Russia about anything!

Ditto that, Pol. There are those, like myself, who have strongly suspected the capability existed – Snowden just confirmed it. Now AP, kindly employ your critical thinking – y’know, the thinking that our public education system so likes to espouse while trying to destroy?

And if Russia makes Obama really mad he might reduce our nuclear arsenal by only half of what he previously stated.

Has the United States ever looked so foolish and weak? I can’t remember a time when the stakes were so high and the response so inept.

This traitor might very well have a trove of information on our entire intelligence network, a list of people that work for the NSA and we are asking Russia, “pretty please” to hand him over? Meanwhile, they are “debriefing” him, have access to his materials and are doing tremendous damage to our intelligence gathering. In the end, this all makes every last one of us less safe.

The amateur President has truly exposed himself on this issue.

Marcus Traianus on June 25, 2013 at 7:57 AM

I am convinced that it is now proper to think of the interests of the US Government and the interests of the Obama Administration as two separate things.

The Obama Administration benefits from more Snowden headlines because it takes away air time from Benghazi, the IRS scandal, the EPA, and everything else. It has the added benefit of making the US look weak and vulnerable, like a large-scale version of every other mediocre country on earth.

The Obama Administration could not be happier with this outcome. They want to be the presidency to reign over America’s most precipitous decline since the Civil War.

I think Obama will have to act, and the problem is, he will over react.

I truly believe that Obama will have to resort to something he has never had to do, and it won’t be pretty and all of us will be wondering if we didn’t push him to far, where he had to finally take a stand, the line in the sand.

Yes…that’s right, he will be forced, to save face, into writing the dreaded strongly worded memo to Putin.

He may even had John Kerry sign it…that’s right, the man who strikes fear into every house cat…

This reminds me of Khrushchev versus the Bootlegger’s Boy living large on so many levels. JFK was and still is a media creation of a phony Camelot and money talks Harvard tourist who got completely played on Bay of Pigs (and most everything else) by a soviet dictator who rose through the ranks by merit (not what we might typically consider merit); what Commies considered merit of brutal survival.

Now we get the Chicago Messiah living large pimped by our Old Media whores as a second coming and that same Affirmative-action Harvard tourist and ACORN reject gets completely played by another soviet dictator who rose through the ranks of brutal survival in a later generation of Russian communists.

I am convinced that it is now proper to think of the interests of the US Government and the interests of the Obama Administration as two separate things.

BKennedy on June 25, 2013 at 9:45 AM

Just know you are convinced?

right2bright on June 25, 2013 at 9:54 AM

I have always known Candidate Obama wanted to weaken this country and reduce our status in the world. No one who loves their country campaigns on “fundamentally transforming” it with “Hope” and “Change” that mean “Chicago political corruption” in practice.

That said, in his first term Obama absolutely could not politically afford to have had a terrorist attack on contiguous US soil and expect to survive a second term. The attack on Benghazi late in the administration was covered up and obfuscated for the exact reason that it constituted an attack on US soil to those who actually know what a consulate is – i.e. intelligent voters.

Now that he is re-elected and will never again face the voters, he is at his most dangerous. The unique problem of a global superpower is that inaction is itself a course of action in the eyes of the rest of the world. Projecting weakness and incompetence are only dangerous insofar as they might harm Democrats down the road.

Obama does not care about that. Democrats should have known that since 2010, but they lined up behind him anyway. Obama is hoping the damage he can bring now will set the United States back decades. He’s already done that with the domestic jobs market, now his target is revoking our global trust.

I doubt our international allies will pine for the days of George W. Bush’s so-called “cowboy” image in public. But surely even they must know, privately, that having “one of their own” as leader of the free world is going to bite them in the rear end in ways they never imagined.

I think they thought we were electing Krushev (A communist constrained ideologically by realpolitik). They’ve now realized we’ve elected Chamberlain (An idiot Marxist idealist dedicated solely to his legacy of bringing the US down as far as he can regardless of other international complications).

Oh that Putin doesn’t know he’s messing with a Chicago street organizer here.
Maybe Obama and Sibelius will take away his religious conscience if he doesn’t comply…or those IRS button-down armies could be released to do their deadly work…or he’ll flood the market with millions of cloned super bowl rings making Putin’s theft worthless,…or, do those death panels have an overseas’ branch?

Failing that, expect those crazed seas around Mother Russia to not be calmed when the messiah does his great calming, or….