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so the logical choice (forced upon one due to circumstances), would be the next logical step?

does one revive their prior profession and skill set or do they renew and gain new skills in the hopes of current employ?

lifeline... UIS, is this available to help ease the transition?, at least for US based traders (check carefully)

new skills...
can you shake a tin cup, whilest sitting like a bum on the street (check)
can you dance on a cardboard foldout for quarters during lunchtime (check)
can you drive a taxi, bus, truck or someone crazy (check

essentially, humor is essential in cushioning the fall and during transition.

I ultimately realized the fact that maybe I had overcomplicated a more simplistic business. That being said it is quite a feat "unlearning" everything.

@FXwulf, first of all, WOW, what a moving story. Thank you so much for posting it; I'm sure it takes mucho guts to even recall those emotions, much less put them in words for others to read, so thank you sincerely.

As for the above quotation... the thing is this: you can never "unlearn" what you learned. It's there, even if not in your conscious thought, every time you trade the markets. Even though an overcomplicated approach may hinder, from now until you die, you will never be able to approach trading as a true "simplistic business." Your approach may consciously be simple, but there is knowledge and background about markets in your head, and prior experiences, that will always be there.

I saw a program on TV recently that demonstrated how generally speaking, what people do when performing a particular activity is not what they think and say they are doing. Mechanics of an activity can be learned and taught, but often the things which are actually taking place are different from what the person thinks he is doing. So, while you have a simple approach, you have a whole lot of complex background, and that background shapes your current view of markets; both your knowledge and your heard-earned experience makes you who you are today.

So, while your simplistic approach is working for you now, who is to say that it would have worked years ago? Many traders use simplistic approaches and do poorly because they have only a superficial understanding of markets. You, however, have a simple approach based on a very extensive knowledge of markets, and based on having experienced a very wide range of emotions while trading, all of which makes you who you are today!

There was 2 times I became almost suicidal when learning to trade. I hate hearing these stories because if you guys knew what i knew now a lot of people wouldn't go through that.

Now that i'm consistently profitable i know trading doesn't need to be that hard.

Guys hear me please. The point that changed everything for me was when i become in contact with real traders who actually trade every day for a living. A good source to find these are prop shops. SMB Capital is a good place to start for most of yous.

That was the turning point.

I learnt that a lot of what prop traders do wasn't taught in books and I had the wrong information the entire time!

We don't need to go through what FXwulf has gone through.

Its seriously sad and happens to too many wanabe traders.

I aint saying its easy but its simple. Find the real traders who trade your instrument and do what they do and then WORK YOUR ASS OFF! I put 8 hours into trading every day. Thats what's at least expected if your a day trader.

Do yourself a favour and talk to a real prop shop or full time trader trading your instrument

I become in contact with some bond traders in Australia. I trade bonds so i needed to find bond traders. Once i became in contact with them I was shown a few things such as order flow. After that everything changed. I became consistent in 6 months trading every day for 6-7 hours.

If you dont know any successful traders trading right now, you will think im talking shit about my time line but im not. Read One Good Trade a lot of the traders in their became consistent in 6-9 months. But they are day traders such as myself actually trading every day and not reading god damb books.

Its easier for a day trader such as myself to become consistent sooner because the amount of reps we do each day. I trade 5-15 trades a day so i learn faster then a long term trader. A lot of wanabe traders spend way to much time reading.

Seriously if i can find traders in Australia you guys in USA and UK have no excuse.

It was really hard and they dont tell you shit. But they will tell you enough to put you on the right track.

There is a huge difference between how retail traders are learning and prop traders

That a major difference between why its so hard for retail traders is retail traders learn of books and forums. Trainee prop traders who do this for a living learn from real traders who are actually trading today for a living.

F(@# the books and go straight to the source.

Stop god dam reading and start trading!

Trading is a skill. How you become good at a skill? By doing it

If i asked you how many hours you spent actually trading what would you say?

A lot of wanabe traders talk about being a trader but put no hours into actually doing it, instead put all that energy into reading books and education.

These wanabe traders are insane! They want to be a trader but actually put no hours into actually trading.

Making trades and working on the skill and becoming better every day is how you become consistent.

This is a game, its closely related to sport. You wouldnt think you can be a soccer player if you didnt play soccer and train every day would you? Well dont do it in trading.

@FXwulf, first of all, WOW, what a moving story. Thank you so much for posting it; I'm sure it takes mucho guts to even recall those emotions, much less put them in words for others to read, so thank you sincerely.

As for the above quotation... the thing is this: you can never "unlearn" what you learned. It's there, even if not in your conscious thought, every time you trade the markets. Even though an overcomplicated approach may hinder, from now until you die, you will never be able to approach trading as a true "simplistic business." Your approach may consciously be simple, but there is knowledge and background about markets in your head, and prior experiences, that will always be there.

I saw a program on TV recently that demonstrated how generally speaking, what people do when performing a particular activity is not what they think and say they are doing. Mechanics of an activity can be learned and taught, but often the things which are actually taking place are different from what the person thinks he is doing. So, while you have a simple approach, you have a whole lot of complex background, and that background shapes your current view of markets; both your knowledge and your heard-earned experience makes you who you are today.

So, while your simplistic approach is working for you now, who is to say that it would have worked years ago? Many traders use simplistic approaches and do poorly because they have only a superficial understanding of markets. You, however, have a simple approach based on a very extensive knowledge of markets, and based on having experienced a very wide range of emotions while trading, all of which makes you who you are today!

Thanks again for the post, I really enjoyed reading it!

Josh

Thanks for the kind words my friend and Im glad that the post meant something to you.

I probably should have been a little more succinct when discussing what I meant by "unlearning" everything. By no means was that literal and what you are saying is dead on accurate. My experiences and lessons in life and trading lead me to "trimming the fat" if you will off of what I needed to know in regards to being fiscally successful trading and what I did not.

I firmly believe that traders focus way too much on the minutiae of the business and less on what it entails being and living the trading lifestyle. It is about as far away from a 9-5 "job" as there is. Success, insofar as ive experienced it, has been more about cultivating a strong and positive mindset primarily. I have seen way too many traders with insanely different approaches to the market both fail and achieve to prove conclusively that it is the things most traders dont want to do( sacrifice, business plan, journal, SIM, invest $$ into proper tools, etc) that really make the difference.... As opposed to " Oh well Wulf uses the 12 Hour charts to swing FX so THAT must be what im not doing right! Voila! Problem solved!"

It seemed when Mike made this thread he was trying to get us to explore when is the best time to call it quits. It seems to me that the answer is when the cost(on many levels) is too great. In my case i went in so deep as to destroy every aspect of my life that my only way out was to go through.

Sad, Profound, and the essence of life. You give up something, to achieve something.

@FXwulf this is a hard lesson to impart. Mike meant to warn people of how crushing it can be. Some of get it, some don't.

May I ask, would you do it over? And if you ever had the chance to tell your kids what would you say? You don't have to answer if you wish not to?

1. May I ask, would you do it over?
With all my heart, No. I suppose that was the whole point of my little tale. I ended up right back where I started( helping people with their fitness goals). And although I dont have to concern myself fiscally anymore Id offload every cent I made to get back my kids and wife.

2. And if you ever had the chance to tell your kids what would you say? Ill tell you my friend... I dont know.... But i think about it every day and i still hope one day I get the chance

There was 2 times I became almost suicidal when learning to trade. I hate hearing these stories because if you guys knew what i knew now a lot of people wouldn't go through that.

Now that i'm consistently profitable i know trading doesn't need to be that hard.

Guys hear me please. The point that changed everything for me was when i become in contact with real traders who actually trade every day for a living. A good source to find these are prop shops. SMB Capital is a good place to start for most of yous.

That was the turning point.

I learnt that a lot of what prop traders do wasn't taught in books and I had the wrong information the entire time!

We don't need to go through what FXwulf has gone through.

Its seriously sad and happens to too many wanabe traders.

I aint saying its easy but its simple. Find the real traders who trade your instrument and do what they do and then WORK YOUR ASS OFF! I put 8 hours into trading every day. Thats what's at least expected if your a day trader.

Do yourself a favour and talk to a real prop shop or full time trader trading your instrument

I become in contact with some bond traders in Australia. I trade bonds so i needed to find bond traders. Once i became in contact with them I was shown a few things such as order flow. After that everything changed. I became consistent in 6 months trading every day for 6-7 hours.

If you dont know any successful traders trading right now, you will think im talking shit about my time line but im not. Read One Good Trade a lot of the traders in their became consistent in 6-9 months. But they are day traders such as myself actually trading every day and not reading god damb books.

Its easier for a day trader such as myself to become consistent sooner because the amount of reps we do each day. I trade 5-15 trades a day so i learn faster then a long term trader. A lot of wanabe traders spend way to much time reading.

Seriously if i can find traders in Australia you guys in USA and UK have no excuse.

It was really hard and they dont tell you shit. But they will tell you enough to put you on the right track.

There is a huge difference between how retail traders are learning and prop traders

That a major difference between why its so hard for retail traders is retail traders learn of books and forums. Trainee prop traders who do this for a living learn from real traders who are actually trading today for a living.

F(@# the books and go straight to the source.

Stop god dam reading and start trading!

Trading is a skill. How you become good at a skill? By doing it

If i asked you how many hours you spent actually trading what would you say?

A lot of wanabe traders talk about being a trader but put no hours into actually doing it, instead put all that energy into reading books and education.

These wanabe traders are insane! They want to be a trader but actually put no hours into actually trading.

Making trades and working on the skill and becoming better every day is how you become consistent.

This is a game, its closely related to sport. You wouldnt think you can be a soccer player if you didnt play soccer and train every day would you? Well dont do it in trading.

Good luck to you all.

great advice Joey. I hope many of the new guys starting out heed this advice. I dont wish my experience on anyone.