Thinking I was maybe crazy or a bad person after being ganged up by AVENites(who are mostly neckbeards shunned by outside society mind you) to check if I was crazy or if it was them I started looking into the founder of the fruitloop troop. This is an interesting excerpt I found:

David Jay wrote:Urban Profile: David Jay, Asexual – Sexless and Satisfied“For sexual folks, when things get more energetic and frantic like it does with back touching and scratching, it is moving towards sex. However in the asexual world, because there is no sex, when things get more energetic, it isn’t really moving anywhere and isn’t culminating in a sexual act. So if you don’t pay attention, the cuddling can go on for six hours and you don’t get any sleep. There is no natural conclusion point.”

That is the like the asexual equivalent of the boasting sexual male who pretends he can have sex for six hours or all night long. What kind of toxic unrealistic person thinks cuddling for six hours is:1) Realistic. 2) Desirable.3) Not emotionally and physically smothering the other party and leading to premature relationship burnout due to lack of personal space? It is like a candle, you can make it burn brighter, but the wick and wax will expire quicker also.

On a related note I found the exact same sentiment in a documentary about older involuntary virgins. Here is what Allen a 49 year old virgin said @26:43:

Allen wrote:Youtube documentary: Desperate Virgins(UK)Holding her in my arms. And that is the moment that I realized a women's body was warm. It sounds silly, but I didn't know that before then. Because I never had a cuddle before. ... And that was fantastic. ... It was weird because I didn't want to be sexual with her. I wanted to carry on cuddling. I just wanted to hold her in my arms forever. ... It was so beautiful.

The sentiment is eerily similar. The context is that Allen was describing earlier how at age 20 he had his first semi-sexual encounter with a girl at a party. She closed the door, pushed him against the wall and kissed him. That kiss gave him glandular fever which left him partially paralyzed from the waist down. He tried utilizing prostitutes 8 times to lose his virginity, but couldn't get an erection no matter what and couldn't have sex because he was a nervous wreck. On his own he could masturbate though.

I just thought I would share this because saying you want to do anything with another person for 6 hours is very creepy and unrealistic and how it matches up with Allen who HAD a better case for asexuality than the majority of internet self diagnosed asexuals. For David Jay there is no excuse for his unrealistic perspective except that his perspective on everything seems to lack any grounding in reality, but for Allen I have alot of sympathy since he got a really raw deal getting a sexually transmitted disease that led to being partially disabled merely on his first kiss! The fact that he is emotionally clammed up, traumatized and awkward around women is totally understandable and that he would want to hold onto his first pleasant experience even though nothing lasts forever.

To me making such claims from a self proclaimed leader and media whore like David Jay makes asexuals look like unrealistic, emotionally undeveloped clowns who watch too many Hollywood romances, read too many romance novels and consume other forms of highly unrealistic escapism and combined with a lack of judgement and life experience make it seem realistic to have such fantasies of cuddling all night because it happens in pulp romance novels and sappy movies. I saw such sentiment or jokes from AVENites from time to time but to me it just seemed creepy and too much like neckbeard things.

How do others feel about the overbearing, smothering cuddle brigade and their bombastic claims?

Last edited by Thrasymachus on Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Why are you concerned with what David Jay does with his personal life? If he wants to cuddle for 6 hours, that's his choice. Projecting your own standards and preferences onto other people serves no purpose since their ideas and desires are just as valid as your own.

The only problem I have with DJ's comment is that he implies that such behavior is typical of asexuals, and I seriously doubt that.

I suspect that there might be some who would be fine with it, but there will be plenty of others who would prefer to keep a little bit more personal space. Six hours is a long time, after all. I enjoy having someone sleeping beside me, just because I think it feels safer, so six hours of that seems fine, but I tend to avoid prolonged contact. (Possible exception in freezing cold situations, but that's highly unlikely.) I think I'm fairly typical for an asexual.

Allen's situation is unfortunate, but he doesn't sound asexual at all. He sounds like a sexually repressed heterosexual. If he were asexual he wouldn't have been trying so hard to lose his virginity because it wouldn't have bothered him.

As to the messiah I am mostly of one opinion but that has some caveats

I have often said that I appreciate that he..and others..gave what I am a name and as such appreciated what he..and others did in the creation of aven and its INITIAL intent

His actions since then have pretty much I feel, done more harm to asexuality than any single individual and the way he has let avens admods often sink or swim with little or no support when needed is the sign of someone who like most of his life, struggles to see things through..he has described himself as an asexual activist..I would say a more correct title would be an active self publicist

The fact he is a 6 hour cuddle monster shouldn't really surprise anyone..actuall Nancy I would see two points on the cuddling and typical of asexuals

I would agree with you that it is not typical for asexuals.....but maybe typical for most of those sexuals wrongly identifying as asexual of some kind due to their age group

I also agree on your comment on Allen...not asexual

as to dj's private life...I've always been puzzled why people put their private life out in public then act all surprised when not every ones replies are not all huggs glitter and sparkles...but his semiprivate life is his own, I have no problem with his private life...only issues when he keeps f*cking up asexuality which almost always seems to tie in with his latest bout of self publicity and promotion

As a person I doubt he is someone I would wish to know...but then he would probably feel the same about me.

ABOUT THE WHOLE ALLEN THING:The reason why I gave the contrast is that Allen had alot of trauma in early life since he got a kissing disease at age 20 and is thus stunted and awkward around women. However David Jay seems very smooth socially, out-going, seeks media attention, is not awkward on camera. You would expect an Allen to be unrealistic about such things like cuddling, but David Jay is unrealistic just because he makes things up and then post-facto convinces himself they are true.

@ KAGU143:The biggest reason I am concerned with David Jay is that he was there "first" and created the stinkhole AVEN and its activist, miseducation non-profit. I think his deleterious influence is why the asexual community online and in general is a joke, that third parties can only watch and cringe. That was a main part of my motivation to seek out some of his interviews and to see if I was the crazy one, or AVEN as an entity and group. An asexual saying they could cuddle for 6 hours is about as realistic as the sexuals who brag they can f*ck for six hours or "all night long". Since I am intellectually curious I have actually seen a documentary on porn stars "'9to5 – Days in Porn" where porn stars complain the worst part of the job is having to stay hard for hours or have sex for hours, to get the right footage. And those are pros at sex. Cuddling for six hours is not much more realistic. Normal people hear Jay's nonsense and they will cringe. People in my area would call someone like him a metrosexual fruitloop.

Allen was more asexual than most the self-diagnosed asexuals of AVEN or anywhere. He literally tried prostitutes 8 time and 8 times couldn't get erect. What people self-report is notoriously inaccurate(I will make a separate thread about that eventually). In the case of Allen, from the documentary anyone could see he was socially awkward and uncomfortable, and he admitted facts about his life that are considered "being a loser" or embarrassing by the social mainstream on national UK television. For those reasons I don't doubt his story. However just from my brief perusal of AVEN I am pretty sure most of their self-proclaimed male asexuals do experience sexual attraction(which is part of the reason why I object to that definition).

KAGU143 wrote:If he were asexual he wouldn't have been trying so hard to lose his virginity because it wouldn't have bothered him.

He should be thankful in that he never found the stink hole called AVEN. Or else he would have had people convince him that he was an asexual, as his story is a stronger case than most there or most on apositive. The same process occurs with mental health diagnosis unless you try to self-diagnosis or see a mental health professional you will not be assigned a mental disorder.

@PIF:I feel the same way about David Jay, almost. But I hold him guilty for starting AVEN the forum and activist organization and non-profit. It would have been better if he had not. If you look at his media appearances or documentary unlike Allen, he is very comfortable socially, charming and well spoken. The problem is that he makes up unrealistic nonsense which doesn't conform to lived social reality and convinces himself and others of it with his confidence. In a way he is a bit like a less dangerous cult leader.

Also Allen was more asexual than most self-proclaimed AVEN asexuals in my eyes. From my brief perusal of AVEN I see that most do give hints just by their posts they do experience sexual attraction. I am sure most self-claimed male asexuals there could get an erection with the right women, especially if they try 8 different women, while he could not. The biggest difference is that he had the fortune to never find AVEN or the asexual community!

David reminds me of those evangelical priests you often see in America, often preaching "the message" from a well versed script, comfortable in media arena's but still more of a car salesman than a genuine person and totally empty of integrity because it is being driven by self interest.

It would be easy to blame all of asexualities problems just on him which would be unfair...he holds on equal balance the increase in visibility (not of asexual integrity but the term asexual) but also the lack of integrity

As far as aven is concerned...their direction is clearly led by him..it rather flip flops from the latest label to the next latest label with integrity often being the victim and as it does this it continues isolate full time asexuals in favour of kids with "what is asexuality being defined as this week?

I think as long as asexuality is promoted as anything you want it to be depending on the latest label from aven or tumblr (yes you lot are as bad as each other) and promoted largely by teens/early adults..then as an asexual movement, we will have to accept there is genuine doubt about us out there...and until we ourselves start to put quality over quantity..we can't blame them