Entirely thinking out loud here, is the Francisco Lindor promotion a clue one of... ACab, Ronny Rodriguez and Jose Ramirez being traded? Is it simply a promotion for Ronny Rodriguez who seems to be flaming hot at the plate recently. OR...maybe there is some truth to the ACab to STL rumors. I'm not going to drag this out with projected trades, etc. Just curious, does anyone think the Tribe and Cards could do a bit of a larger deal like ACab and RRod for a SP and a prospect?

homerawayfromhome wrote:Entirely thinking out loud here, is the Francisco Lindor promotion a clue one of... ACab, Ronny Rodriguez and Jose Ramirez being traded? Is it simply a promotion for Ronny Rodriguez who seems to be flaming hot at the plate recently. OR...maybe there is some truth to the ACab to STL rumors. I'm not going to drag this out with projected trades, etc. Just curious, does anyone think the Tribe and Cards could do a bit of a larger deal like ACab and RRod for a SP and a prospect?

Yes. During the offseason I remember reading an article about that actually. Someone was projecting trades and mentioned how not only ACab could be traded, but one of our SS prospects could be thrown is as well to give the team at least an opportunity to replace ACab after his contract. It makes a lot of sense, and considering Ramirez and RRod's play of late, it could end up being a pretty attractive offer.

homerawayfromhome wrote:Entirely thinking out loud here, is the Francisco Lindor promotion a clue one of... ACab, Ronny Rodriguez and Jose Ramirez being traded? Is it simply a promotion for Ronny Rodriguez who seems to be flaming hot at the plate recently. OR...maybe there is some truth to the ACab to STL rumors. I'm not going to drag this out with projected trades, etc. Just curious, does anyone think the Tribe and Cards could do a bit of a larger deal like ACab and RRod for a SP and a prospect?

Usually I wouldn't think so, but it's entirely possible. Not sure Lindor is directly effected if Cabrera were traded, it's not as if we would see Lindor in Cleveland this season. So seeing someone like Rodriguez or Ramirez promoted or traded as well seems more likely to me.

One possibility is Rodriguez or Ramirez is being discussed with St Louis rather than Cabrera. Keep in mind that last time the ACab rumors popped up the Indians managed to swing a deal involving Didi Gregorius (Rare opportunity I realize). Suppose the Cards (or any team) would actually prefer a prospect with many years of control left rather than Cabrera or as you suggested along with Cabrera.

homerawayfromhome wrote:Entirely thinking out loud here, is the Francisco Lindor promotion a clue one of... ACab, Ronny Rodriguez and Jose Ramirez being traded? Is it simply a promotion for Ronny Rodriguez who seems to be flaming hot at the plate recently. OR...maybe there is some truth to the ACab to STL rumors. I'm not going to drag this out with projected trades, etc. Just curious, does anyone think the Tribe and Cards could do a bit of a larger deal like ACab and RRod for a SP and a prospect?

Usually I wouldn't think so, but it's entirely possible. Not sure Lindor is directly effected if Cabrera were traded, it's not as if we would see Lindor in Cleveland this season. So seeing someone like Rodriguez or Ramirez promoted or traded as well seems more likely to me.

One possibility is Rodriguez or Ramirez is being discussed with St Louis rather than Cabrera. Keep in mind that last time the ACab rumors popped up the Indians managed to swing a deal involving Didi Gregorius (Rare opportunity I realize). Suppose the Cards (or any team) would actually prefer a prospect with many years of control left rather than Cabrera or as you suggested along with Cabrera.

It'll be interesting to see if anything happens.

I've praised the way the Cards do things for some time. They are a model org. IMHO. That said, John Mo. will make big trades but he's also a forward thinker. I could see something with ACab & one of RRod / JRam for a SP and a prospect or two. The Tribe has depth and could move 2 in one deal. The Cards would have a nice offensive SS at a decent price and potentially a replacement.

homerawayfromhome wrote:Entirely thinking out loud here, is the Francisco Lindor promotion a clue one of... ACab, Ronny Rodriguez and Jose Ramirez being traded? Is it simply a promotion for Ronny Rodriguez who seems to be flaming hot at the plate recently. OR...maybe there is some truth to the ACab to STL rumors. I'm not going to drag this out with projected trades, etc. Just curious, does anyone think the Tribe and Cards could do a bit of a larger deal like ACab and RRod for a SP and a prospect?

Yes. During the offseason I remember reading an article about that actually. Someone was projecting trades and mentioned how not only ACab could be traded, but one of our SS prospects could be thrown is as well to give the team at least an opportunity to replace ACab after his contract. It makes a lot of sense, and considering Ramirez and RRod's play of late, it could end up being a pretty attractive offer.

homerawayfromhome wrote:Entirely thinking out loud here, is the Francisco Lindor promotion a clue one of... ACab, Ronny Rodriguez and Jose Ramirez being traded? Is it simply a promotion for Ronny Rodriguez who seems to be flaming hot at the plate recently. OR...maybe there is some truth to the ACab to STL rumors. I'm not going to drag this out with projected trades, etc. Just curious, does anyone think the Tribe and Cards could do a bit of a larger deal like ACab and RRod for a SP and a prospect?

Yes. During the offseason I remember reading an article about that actually. Someone was projecting trades and mentioned how not only ACab could be traded, but one of our SS prospects could be thrown is as well to give the team at least an opportunity to replace ACab after his contract. It makes a lot of sense, and considering Ramirez and RRod's play of late, it could end up being a pretty attractive offer.

I think G'Son may have suggested such an idea at one point.

Yeah.. that was me..

The Cardinals are an organization that is something the Indians can/should emulate. They have stocked their pen with internal youngster that would otherwise be considered Starting Pitchers from their minor league system.. allowed them to gain some depth and experience at the highest level of baseball, then worked them in as spot starters to eventual rotation members.. (Shelby Miller, Trevor Rosenthal, Lance Lynn, and now Kevin Siegrist, Joe Kelly Carlos Martinez and Seth Maness) The short falls in their pen have been filled with free agents.. All similar to what the Indians have done except, once a pitcher is moved to the pen...that's where they die. No further development of that third pitch.. nothing.. The Indians starting pitching prospects go there, STAY THERE!.

But back to the subject at hand..

yes, that was a deal I proposed as a hypothetical. It should be noted that there was an original deal was proposed through a St Louis source and reported by Joe Goold of the St Louis Dispatch. That deal involved Asdrubal going to St Louis and the Indians receiving three players, two were prospect: Matt Adams, Trevor Rosenthal and one of Joe Kelly or Lance Lynn. The St Louis people were all in an up roar about two seasons of Asdrubal for lots of season of guys who can't play shortstop... How it wasn't fair..etc.etc. In other words..if Asdrubal was signed for six years, the deal was more pallatable as Rosenthal had shown he was a decent RP, no more, Matt Adamns was blocked in the minors and hadn't had a single ML at bat, and Joe Kelly/Lancy Lynn were interesting SP's, but not FOR SP's like Wainwright and Carpenter and Lohse, and Shelby Miller who was showing himself to be an "electric armed" starter.. In short, the Cardinals didn't have a place for both Kelly and Lynn and did have a DRASTIC need for a SS. Then it was reported from through the same source and Joe Goold that the Indians wanted one more guy and that's where the deal fell apart. During this transition..I suggest a Matt Adams, Trevor Rosenthal Joe Kelly/Lance Lynn and Oscar Taveras to the Indians for Asdrubal Cabrera AND Francisco Lindor. The thought process was simple.. Asdrubal for the 2013 & 2014 season... more if the price is right... The end of the 2014 season, September call ups etc.. would be Lindor's time to shine. This trade was again poo-poo'd by the St Louis fans as there was no way would the Cardinals trade away their # 1 Prospect.. When it was pointed out that Francisco Lindor was also a # 1 prospect and at a position of need.. the die had already been cast..there was no way it was going to happen..

Odd thing that's happened over the last ten days or so.... the St Louis Cardinals had two of their primary scouts and their national cross checker in Akron to watch the Jose Ramirez/Ronny Rodriquez show.. Their comments.. both are good players.. worth Seth Blair or Tim Cooney level prospects from the Cardinals..

So we'll see..All the names listed above are still in play.. There are a few others in the Cardinals system that are of interest The Cardinals have Homer's favor Wacha (he's going to be a beast), Tyrell Jenkins (has talent.. needs two years minimum before he'll matter) and not much after that in their system..I do think Cory Jones has some special potential as a SP, but, he's to far away to really say....

homerawayfromhome wrote:Entirely thinking out loud here, is the Francisco Lindor promotion a clue one of... ACab, Ronny Rodriguez and Jose Ramirez being traded? Is it simply a promotion for Ronny Rodriguez who seems to be flaming hot at the plate recently. OR...maybe there is some truth to the ACab to STL rumors. I'm not going to drag this out with projected trades, etc. Just curious, does anyone think the Tribe and Cards could do a bit of a larger deal like ACab and RRod for a SP and a prospect?

Yes. During the offseason I remember reading an article about that actually. Someone was projecting trades and mentioned how not only ACab could be traded, but one of our SS prospects could be thrown is as well to give the team at least an opportunity to replace ACab after his contract. It makes a lot of sense, and considering Ramirez and RRod's play of late, it could end up being a pretty attractive offer.

I think G'Son may have suggested such an idea at one point.

Yeah.. that was me..

The Cardinals are an organization that is something the Indians can/should emulate. They have stocked their pen with internal youngster that would otherwise be considered Starting Pitchers from their minor league system.. allowed them to gain some depth and experience at the highest level of baseball, then worked them in as spot starters to eventual rotation members.. (Shelby Miller, Trevor Rosenthal, Lance Lynn, and now Kevin Siegrist, Joe Kelly Carlos Martinez and Seth Maness) The short falls in their pen have been filled with free agents.. All similar to what the Indians have done except, once a pitcher is moved to the pen...that's where they die. No further development of that third pitch.. nothing.. The Indians starting pitching prospects go there, STAY THERE!.

But back to the subject at hand..

yes, that was a deal I proposed as a hypothetical. It should be noted that there was an original deal was proposed through a St Louis source and reported by Joe Goold of the St Louis Dispatch. That deal involved Asdrubal going to St Louis and the Indians receiving three players, two were prospect: Matt Adams, Trevor Rosenthal and one of Joe Kelly or Lance Lynn. The St Louis people were all in an up roar about two seasons of Asdrubal for lots of season of guys who can't play shortstop... How it wasn't fair..etc.etc. In other words..if Asdrubal was signed for six years, the deal was more pallatable as Rosenthal had shown he was a decent RP, no more, Matt Adamns was blocked in the minors and hadn't had a single ML at bat, and Joe Kelly/Lancy Lynn were interesting SP's, but not FOR SP's like Wainwright and Carpenter and Lohse, and Shelby Miller who was showing himself to be an "electric armed" starter.. In short, the Cardinals didn't have a place for both Kelly and Lynn and did have a DRASTIC need for a SS. Then it was reported from through the same source and Joe Goold that the Indians wanted one more guy and that's where the deal fell apart. During this transition..I suggest a Matt Adams, Trevor Rosenthal Joe Kelly/Lance Lynn and Oscar Taveras to the Indians for Asdrubal Cabrera AND Francisco Lindor. The thought process was simple.. Asdrubal for the 2013 & 2014 season... more if the price is right... The end of the 2014 season, September call ups etc.. would be Lindor's time to shine. This trade was again poo-poo'd by the St Louis fans as there was no way would the Cardinals trade away their # 1 Prospect.. When it was pointed out that Francisco Lindor was also a # 1 prospect and at a position of need.. the die had already been cast..there was no way it was going to happen..

Odd thing that's happened over the last ten days or so.... the St Louis Cardinals had two of their primary scouts and their national cross checker in Akron to watch the Jose Ramirez/Ronny Rodriquez show.. Their comments.. both are good players.. worth Seth Blair or Tim Cooney level prospects from the Cardinals..

So we'll see..All the names listed above are still in play.. There are a few others in the Cardinals system that are of interest The Cardinals have Homer's favor Wacha (he's going to be a beast), Tyrell Jenkins (has talent.. needs two years minimum before he'll matter) and not much after that in their system..I do think Cory Jones has some special potential as a SP, but, he's to far away to really say....

I have a tremendous amount of respect for the org. as I've said before I had the opportunity to live outside of StL at one time. Great baseball city and great org. I still watch them on occasion out of curiousity. Taking a break from my studies --- I'm actually watching them on the local TV affiliate right now. Btw, Garza v. Lynn.

If we get a starting pitcher - who in the current rotation sits? Would we perhaps trade a pitcher as part of the package for an upgrade. IMO Ubaldo would be the one to go. Also, until we find out if McAllister can come back to form - this one is open. There appears to be enough time to find out before the deadline.

If we get a starting pitcher - who in the current rotation sits? Would we perhaps trade a pitcher as part of the package for an upgrade. IMO Ubaldo would be the one to go. Also, until we find out if McAllister can come back to form - this one is open. There appears to be enough time to find out before the deadline.

How about at bat?

What about the bull pen?

IMO we need first bull pen help.

Bob

I would say rotation help. We just don't match up well in a short series. I do agree that Masterson, (maybe) Mcallister, and Kluber are all quality pitchers and Kazmir holding his own. But I don't expect any of them besides maybe Masterson being counted on in a big game. Just my opinion though.

Bullpen help, lefty or righty is a very, very close second. Followed of course by a bat. Michael Young just pops out as a good fit. Maybe Reynolds has a second half similar to last year with Baltimore coming, Would be quite a boost if he did.

If we get a starting pitcher - who in the current rotation sits? Would we perhaps trade a pitcher as part of the package for an upgrade. IMO Ubaldo would be the one to go. Also, until we find out if McAllister can come back to form - this one is open. There appears to be enough time to find out before the deadline.

How about at bat?

What about the bull pen?

IMO we need first bull pen help.

Bob

I would say rotation help. We just don't match up well in a short series. I do agree that Masterson, (maybe) Mcallister, and Kluber are all quality pitchers and Kazmir holding his own. But I don't expect any of them besides maybe Masterson being counted on in a big game. Just my opinion though.

Bullpen help, lefty or righty is a very, very close second. Followed of course by a bat. Michael Young just pops out as a good fit. Maybe Reynolds has a second half similar to last year with Baltimore coming, Would be quite a boost if he did.

I'll say Ubaldo could be traded IF the Tribe acq. a SP. his value is as high as it is going to be, he's a FA at seasons end plus they might be able to re-allocate his funds toward another piece. My guess, Ubaldo could net one solid prospect in return.

IF the Tribe did go for Michael Young (I hope they do), I think they could flip Mark Reynolds for a solid prospect. I'd guess TB, TX might have interest.

As for the bullpen I think they definitely need a LHRP and the possibility to snag a controllable RHRP shouldn't be overlooked. Smith, Albers, Hill are all FA at seasons end, Pestano has been erratic and shall I mention CPerez? A cpl LHRP worth a look...Mike Dunn, Charlie Furbush, Oliver Perez, Wesley Wright, James Russell and Mike Gonzalez. A cpl RHRP worth a look...Ryan Webb, Steve Cishek and Kevin Gregg.

Personally, I think we could see something like ACab to STL for a SP and a prospect. I wouldn't be shocked to see them throw in an arm like Joe Smith or Matt Albers to get the deal done. The Tribe and Cards have talked for about a yr now, just seems like something could happen.

The Cubs told him to expect a trade. He's a FA at the end of the season. He has been injured, but seems OK now, and his WHIP is better than Masterson.

He would be a FOR guy for us for sure. He would eat more innings thus making the pen more stable automatically. One of the SP could be moved to long relief, also making the pen better.

The question is:At what price? Salazar? RRod? I don't mind giving up a middle infield prospect. But not Lindor for a rent-a-pitcher.

In the bigger picture, The Tigers are just flat better than the Indians. They look like under-achievers, but they seem to turn it on in September. There's a lot of teams to beat for the wild cards. What's the price to contend?

I do not think trading Droobs during the season would do anything but hurt. If he gets it going, Swisher gets it going and the existing talent in the pen shows up - we will be fine. What we need is a left handed reliever.

Who is the weak link in the rotation that sits if we do get a starter - assuming McAllister is healthy and resumes his prior level of performance.

The Cubs told him to expect a trade. He's a FA at the end of the season. He has been injured, but seems OK now, and his WHIP is better than Masterson.

He would be a FOR guy for us for sure. He would eat more innings thus making the pen more stable automatically. One of the SP could be moved to long relief, also making the pen better.

The question is:At what price? Salazar? RRod? I don't mind giving up a middle infield prospect. But not Lindor for a rent-a-pitcher.

In the bigger picture, The Tigers are just flat better than the Indians. They look like under-achievers, but they seem to turn it on in September. There's a lot of teams to beat for the wild cards. What's the price to contend?

That's a lot of questions.

I would NOT trade a top tier talent to acquire Garza because he's a rental.. so Lindor and Salazar are untouchables. I'd be willing to trade away Ronny Rodriguez, even Jose Ramirez.. if they wanted Bauer or Carrasco, fine. I just wouldn't want to overpay. My biggest problem with Garza is he's a rental. I'd much rather trade for a pitcher with more control years than Garza. I'd still welcome Garza with open arms, but at the right price.

Just a random observation, but Salazar's stock right now is sky high. He's had a history of arm injuries including shoulder discomfort this year. He's got a very, very wide range of potential outcomes. He could be the next Rich Harden (that's a compliment), or he could flame out completely. If the Indians can turn him into something valuable with less risk, it should be considered. A two month rental that does not yield compensation picks isn't a strong return on him, however.

Bearcatbob wrote:I do not think trading Droobs during the season would do anything but hurt. If he gets it going, Swisher gets it going and the existing talent in the pen shows up - we will be fine. What we need is a left handed reliever.

Who is the weak link in the rotation that sits if we do get a starter - assuming McAllister is healthy and resumes his prior level of performance.

Bob

I would have to think Ubaldo. Thought Kazmir for a while but you have to ride him while he's hot.

Bearcatbob wrote:I do not think trading Droobs during the season would do anything but hurt. If he gets it going, Swisher gets it going and the existing talent in the pen shows up - we will be fine. What we need is a left handed reliever.

Who is the weak link in the rotation that sits if we do get a starter - assuming McAllister is healthy and resumes his prior level of performance.

Bob

I would have to think Ubaldo. Though Kazmir for a while but you have to ride him while he's hot.

Geez.. I wonder..what makes someone the pitching staff's weak link?.. Simply put.. the guy who starts the game that the team loses.. and loses, in part, because of his effort.. Well.. when you look at the results.. it doesn't say Ubaldo..

Ubaldo has pitched 54 innings over is last ten starts with an ERA of 3.33. He's gone 4-1 with five ND's (3 W's 2 L's including the July 4th L0-Cain Granny).. 7-3 for the team record.. can be argued that this is a quality middle of the rotation starter. If it was two or three starts, then okay.. but this is the better part of two months.. The "weak link" if defined by the success or failure of the squad.. would be someone who's results are under the teams results.. The example here would be Justin Masterson.. In Masty's last ten starts, he's 3-5 with two ND's (both team W's) for a 5-5 team record when he pitches. He's posted an era 5.79 while averaging 6 and a half innings per start. While Ubaldo's numbers have been described as the weak link.. the facts are pretty clear.. Masterson has had some REAL issues.. but, you seldom hear about him..

The moral of this little diatribe says that.. the folks who are decrying the inconsistency of the Indians starting staff.. aren't looking at the Indians starting staff if they want to promote the idea that Ubaldo is somehow the 'weak link'. The numbers do not support that conclusion. In fact, Masterson has had the four worst clunkers in the last sixty days for this pitching staff... As much as you'd think that the eye test says Ubaldo would be the first to go/in the weak link.. he's really doing what he's supposed to do.. most times he's called on..

Now this is when some one says FIP and BABIP and Asdrubal is a poor defensive SS... thoughts?

It's more than just a little likely that the Indians are going to be buyers at the trade deadline.. the team is certainly in a position to compete for a division title.. and the leadership of the club from the front office has shown a je ne sais quoi as it relates to moves they've made and could make.. So.. how about a deal with the

Pirates..?

The Pirates have a guy, perhaps two that would look great with Chief Wahoo on their sleeve.. Luis Heredia.. Of course.. if Asdrubal is traded, then Luis Heredia could have Jordy Mercer carrying his bags for him in this two for one deal?.. thoughts?..

The Cubs told him to expect a trade. He's a FA at the end of the season. He has been injured, but seems OK now, and his WHIP is better than Masterson.

He would be a FOR guy for us for sure. He would eat more innings thus making the pen more stable automatically. One of the SP could be moved to long relief, also making the pen better.

The question is:At what price? Salazar? RRod? I don't mind giving up a middle infield prospect. But not Lindor for a rent-a-pitcher.

In the bigger picture, The Tigers are just flat better than the Indians. They look like under-achievers, but they seem to turn it on in September. There's a lot of teams to beat for the wild cards. What's the price to contend?

That's a lot of questions.

I would NOT trade a top tier talent to acquire Garza because he's a rental.. so Lindor and Salazar are untouchables. I'd be willing to trade away Ronny Rodriguez, even Jose Ramirez.. if they wanted Bauer or Carrasco, fine. I just wouldn't want to overpay. My biggest problem with Garza is he's a rental. I'd much rather trade for a pitcher with more control years than Garza. I'd still welcome Garza with open arms, but at the right price.

Agree mostly, though to me Bauer should be untouchable for Garza. Yes he's struggled, but he's still one hell of a talent. Carrasco...on the fence there. You see the potential but may not be able to put it together, at least not in Cleveland/the AL.

I'd like Garza a lot more if we swung a trade for him in principle tonight...then worked on an extension over the next 3-4 days. Extremely rare though to see that, especially with someone this good (if ever?)...

Bearcatbob wrote:I do not think trading Droobs during the season would do anything but hurt. If he gets it going, Swisher gets it going and the existing talent in the pen shows up - we will be fine. What we need is a left handed reliever.

Who is the weak link in the rotation that sits if we do get a starter - assuming McAllister is healthy and resumes his prior level of performance.

Bob

I would have to think Ubaldo. Though Kazmir for a while but you have to ride him while he's hot.

Geez.. I wonder..what makes someone the pitching staff's weak link?.. Simply put.. the guy who starts the game that the team loses.. and loses, in part, because of his effort.. Well.. when you look at the results.. it doesn't say Ubaldo..

Ubaldo has pitched 54 innings over is last ten starts with an ERA of 3.33. He's gone 4-1 with five ND's (3 W's 2 L's including the July 4th L0-Cain Granny).. 7-3 for the team record.. can be argued that this is a quality middle of the rotation starter. If it was two or three starts, then okay.. but this is the better part of two months.. The "weak link" if defined by the success or failure of the squad.. would be someone who's results are under the teams results.. The example here would be Justin Masterson.. In Masty's last ten starts, he's 3-5 with two ND's (both team W's) for a 5-5 team record when he pitches. He's posted an era 5.79 while averaging 6 and a half innings per start. While Ubaldo's numbers have been described as the weak link.. the facts are pretty clear.. Masterson has had some REAL issues.. but, you seldom hear about him..

The moral of this little diatribe says that.. the folks who are decrying the inconsistency of the Indians starting staff.. aren't looking at the Indians starting staff if they want to promote the idea that Ubaldo is somehow the 'weak link'. The numbers do not support that conclusion. In fact, Masterson has had the four worst clunkers in the last sixty days for this pitching staff... As much as you'd think that the eye test says Ubaldo would be the first to go/in the weak link.. he's really doing what he's supposed to do.. most times he's called on..

Now this is when some one says FIP and BABIP and Asdrubal is a poor defensive SS... thoughts?

Ubaldo is not a mid rotation starter IMO. He can barely get you into the 6th inning on a good night, heck you just said it, in his last 10 starts he's thrown you 54 innings. If you want to claim he's a 5th starter then I can buy your side of the discussion.

Fact remains if the Indians find a starting pitcher to upgrade the rotation, a front of the rotation type they supposedly seek, then Ubaldo Jimenez could very well be removed from the rotation, but another fact remains that he may be safe no matter what especially if Zack McAllister can't make it back.

MadThinker88 wrote:Just throwing an idea out there, after hearing the Cards are checking in Garza has me wondering if a 3 way deal could be in the works Cards, Cubs and Tribe

Jose Ramirez, Carlos Carassco, Tribe Int'l pool money and a player from Cards to the Cubs.Garza and another Tribe asset to Cards.Miller or Wacha from Cards and James Russell from Cubs to the Tribe.

Not sure the Cards would part with Wacha (sounds untouchable) for Garza, and Miller is really pushing it. Not the biggest fan of this deal for Cleveland. I like Wacha, but not as much as most. Breezed thru the minors but still not sold he'll be more than a #3. Probably a better bet than Carrasco at this point though. Still, giving up Ramirez, money, plus something else in addition seems a lot for an unproven talent. I know a lot of people like Russell. He is a solid arm but nothing overly special. A lefty, but doesn't K a lot of guys, gives up some hits and WHIP is only "ok". I like Russell and wouldn't mind getting him...but don't want to overpay for a lefty...we did that before and gave up Brian Giles for Ricardo Rincon...

Last edited by Hermie13 on Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

MadThinker88 wrote:Just throwing an idea out there, after hearing the Cards are checking in Garza has me wondering if a 3 way deal could be in the works Cards, Cubs and Tribe

Jose Ramirez, Carlos Carassco, Tribe Int'l pool money and a player from Cards to the Cubs.Garza and another Tribe asset to Cards.Miller or Wacha from Cards and James Russell from Cubs to the Tribe.

I like the concept..I D K if the names would be palatable by all three parties involved.. but there is something to the Indians acting as facilitator in getting a trade done between the Cardinals and Cubs... Reading Viva El Birdo's, one of the Cardinals largest blogs, someone names "red baron" wrote a who should be traded kind of article entitled "Trimming the fat".. ( http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2013/7/10/4 ... ng-the-fat ). It specifically named each of the cardinals that were not pulling their weight/responsibility. The article itself was kind of simplistic.. but the over 550 comments were pretty insightful. Mentioning Garza was well represented in this huge comment sections..

Same kind of situation.. the Pirates have needs that include Corner OF'er and SS.. the Indians have the ability to help right now with a return of what might be considered a future FOR SP (I'm sure there is a YouTube Videos entitled ACE VIDEOS FOR DUMMIES) that will show Luis Heredia has the kind of talent to be considered one of the best young A+/AA (soon) SPs in the Pirates system. Neil Huntington has his club at the edge of real contention. While the Pirates won't trade James Taillon or Greg Polonco or Allen Hansen or even Josh Bell.. they might consider moving Heredia as he's a bit further away and the need is NOW.. Just thought...

Reports are Phillies are looking for a CF after Revere got hurt. I know some disagree, but I really think the Tribe should look to move Drew Stubbs. He's a very good defensive CFers, one of the best in the game. Wasting his skills in RF really. Few teams outside of Philly could look at him too (Cubs, Mets, etc). Stubbs isn't have a good year but hasn't been too bad. Numbers would look better in CF as opposed to a cOF spot too. Not exactly the big move to put the Tribe over the top but a smaller move the Tribe could look to make.

Same kind of situation.. the Pirates have needs that include Corner OF'er and SS.. the Indians have the ability to help right now with a return of what might be considered a future FOR SP (I'm sure there is a YouTube Videos entitled ACE VIDEOS FOR DUMMIES) that will show Luis Heredia has the kind of talent to be considered one of the best young A+/AA (soon) SPs in the Pirates system. Neil Huntington has his club at the edge of real contention. While the Pirates won't trade James Taillon or Greg Polonco or Allen Hansen or even Josh Bell.. they might consider moving Heredia as he's a bit further away and the need is NOW.. Just thought...

Pirates wouldn't be a bad trade fit. Personally I'd really push for Taillon if you move Adrubal (assuming that's what you were getting at?). I'm sure they'd say no, but they could get a bit desperate of sorts trying to win finally and Asdrubal would be the best SS on the market if he was made available. Pirates have one hell of a pitching staff but 2nd to last in runs scored in the NL is not gonna cut it. Not sure we match up well on cOFers unless they really like Raburn...which could be a solid fit. Can help in RF and 2B (Walker keeps getting hurt). Nice little throw in for them and sellling high for Cleveland. Tribe probably will want to hold on to him though for their own run, plus Francona liked him even when he was strugglign in Detroit last year. Still....would be interesting to see if a combo of Asdrubal/Raburn could net you Taillon plus some other pieces from the Pirates...right now I'd say no, but in 2 weeks....

To trade Asdrubal or not to trade him...that will surely be a questioned asked many times from now til the end of July....so many scenarios open up if you are open to moving him...

Hermie13 wrote:Reports are Phillies are looking for a CF after Revere got hurt. I know some disagree, but I really think the Tribe should look to move Drew Stubbs. He's a very good defensive CFers, one of the best in the game. Wasting his skills in RF really. Few teams outside of Philly could look at him too (Cubs, Mets, etc). Stubbs isn't have a good year but hasn't been too bad. Numbers would look better in CF as opposed to a cOF spot too. Not exactly the big move to put the Tribe over the top but a smaller move the Tribe could look to make.

Can't imagine the Tribe would get much in return for Stubbs.. and what RF are on the market? Send him packing at season's end.. but for now.. don't mess with something that isn't broken. And this is coming from a guy who has been very hard on Stubbs all year.

Hermie13 wrote:Reports are Phillies are looking for a CF after Revere got hurt. I know some disagree, but I really think the Tribe should look to move Drew Stubbs. He's a very good defensive CFers, one of the best in the game. Wasting his skills in RF really. Few teams outside of Philly could look at him too (Cubs, Mets, etc). Stubbs isn't have a good year but hasn't been too bad. Numbers would look better in CF as opposed to a cOF spot too. Not exactly the big move to put the Tribe over the top but a smaller move the Tribe could look to make.

Can't imagine the Tribe would get much in return for Stubbs.. and what RF are on the market? Send him packing at season's end.. but for now.. don't mess with something that isn't broken. And this is coming from a guy who has been very hard on Stubbs all year.

Not expecting a lot, but think he also could be a nice secondary piece in a bigger deal. Lots want to add Carrasco to a Garza deal, but wonder if Stubbs couldn't be in play too (or moreso) as the Cubs OF could use help in CF. Not sure why it matters on what RF are on the market...Tribe has 2 in house guys that are better than Stubbs already in Swisher and Raburn. Aviles could probably play out there too (can play LF and arm is fine) and guys like Giambi and Gomes can pick up some of the ABs as well.

Same kind of situation.. the Pirates have needs that include Corner OF'er and SS.. the Indians have the ability to help right now with a return of what might be considered a future FOR SP (I'm sure there is a YouTube Videos entitled ACE VIDEOS FOR DUMMIES) that will show Luis Heredia has the kind of talent to be considered one of the best young A+/AA (soon) SPs in the Pirates system. Neil Huntington has his club at the edge of real contention. While the Pirates won't trade James Taillon or Greg Polonco or Allen Hansen or even Josh Bell.. they might consider moving Heredia as he's a bit further away and the need is NOW.. Just thought...

Pirates wouldn't be a bad trade fit. Personally I'd really push for Taillon if you move Adrubal (assuming that's what you were getting at?). I'm sure they'd say no, but they could get a bit desperate of sorts trying to win finally and Asdrubal would be the best SS on the market if he was made available. Pirates have one hell of a pitching staff but 2nd to last in runs scored in the NL is not gonna cut it. Not sure we match up well on cOFers unless they really like Raburn...which could be a solid fit. Can help in RF and 2B (Walker keeps getting hurt). Nice little throw in for them and sellling high for Cleveland. Tribe probably will want to hold on to him though for their own run, plus Francona liked him even when he was strugglign in Detroit last year. Still....would be interesting to see if a combo of Asdrubal/Raburn could net you Taillon plus some other pieces from the Pirates...right now I'd say no, but in 2 weeks....

To trade Asdrubal or not to trade him...that will surely be a questioned asked many times from now til the end of July....so many scenarios open up if you are open to moving him...

Taillon would be an absolute steal..but, like you've stated, the Indians would need to push to make a deal like that happen. At the end of the day, it's highly unlikely that Neil Huntington would let him go.. The desperation comment is balanced by a team philosophy of the Pirates that says... they want to build a club that will win consistently.. This flies in the face of a desperation move.. The Pirates DO have a significant problem with scoring runs (nearly a hundred less runs than the Indians at the break). The Indians have a SS that could lengthen their lineup thereby allowing them to score more. The decision on a deal would come down to the "extras" added in. A straight Droobs for Taillon is almost certainly a "NO" from the Pirates.. Droobs for Heredia is almost certainly a "NO" from the Indians and only a maybe from the Pirates..

Incredibly bold, multi-player trades usually only happens during the winter.. so, even though the two teams may have pieces that kind of fit, the Pirates and Indians may have to plug along with who is already there..

I think the Pirates could be realistic trade partners. ACab would be a great add for them, but the Tribe has to land SP in return. The Pirates have a few I'd like to see the Tribe get... Taillon and Heredia would be the first two to inquire upon.

Btw, the Tribe could acquire another trade chip tomorrow in the form of a competitive balance lottery draft pick. Just throwing this out there but the International pool space and comp. lotto pick are intriguing means to acq. talent without ever developing it. These are two areas the Tribe needs to be aggressive and see what kind of opportunities may prevent themselves.

One team that hasn't been brought up yet (at least that I recall)...the Royals. Currently 8 games out of 1st in the Central, 6.5 games behind the Tribe for 2nd, and 9.5 games out of the Wild Card spots...

They made a few big moves this winter that really helped the area they were trying for (rotation) but just hasn't turned into wins. Got a few interesting trade pieces should they decide to go that route, which I think they could if they struggle here the last 2 weeks of July and fall 12 games or more off the pace in the Central.

Ervin Santana is a free agent to be. A guy I really wanted the Tribe to get this winter...not a guy I think the Tribe should target though. He'll likely get a qualfying offer from the Royals if they keep him, so a trade would have to give them something worth at least a 1st round pick....like Santana, but wouldn't want to give up a top spec for a rental that's in the division. Maybe you could get him for less though...

The guy I'd LOVE to see the Tribe try and get though....James Shields. Not available now, but again you never know in 2 weeks. Royals gave up a lot to get him and he's pitched just like he usually does...makes all his starts, pitches a ton of innings, and ERA in the low 3s. Many argue he's not a true Ace but I disagree (in the minority there I'm sure). TOR guy the Tribe could use and a guy I would not hesitate to start against anyone Game 1 of a playoff series. Has another year left at a reasonable amount too. All this means he won't come cheap (again, IF the Royals even make him available). I wouldn't trade Lindor...but anyone else I would. Bauer, Salzaar, Paulino, Ramirez, etc....I'd be willing to deal 2 of them plus another nice spec. I know that'd be one hell of a intra-divisional trade but you'd be getting a top of the rotation Ace type of pithcer who is controllable....can get a draft pick out of him if he walks out of 2014 too (or trade him again if you wanted).

I'd also check in on Butler in 2 weeks....professional hitter that's got 1.5 years (plus an option). Probably won't be on the market even if the Royals tank as he's one of the few bright offensive guys for the team, plus is controllable for 2.5 years, but again never know. DH only at this stage really but so what. Guy just hits. Tony mentioned Michael Young a week ago as a target guy and think Butler is a better/younger version of him. Again though, realize he very, very likely won't be availalble....but can't hurt to ask/try.

I'd also ask on Bruce Chen. Can pitch out of the pen or start...Tribe could use his lefty arm in the pen.

All 3 of James Shields, Billy Butler, and Chen would be huge...but getting them all this summer would be right up their with parting the Red Sea...besides all the issues, would take at leastt Salzaar, Bauer, Paulino, Ramirez, Naquin, comp pick, and maybe something else (maybe Hags). Probably would take Lindor in place of someone though...

Wonder what it would take (again if he was made avaialbe) to get Shields alone... Would Salzaar, Paulino, and Ramirez do it? Or maybe Shields and Chen and throw in comp pick or Hags? Or to just get Chen, or just Butler...

The Indians got the 3rd pick in comp round A for next yr. that is nice boost for the draft pool or a nice trade chip. For perspective sake...the 3rd pick in this yrs comp round A was held by the Dbax #36 overall (Aaron Blair) worth about $1.5M more in pool money.

homerawayfromhome wrote:The Indians got the 3rd pick in comp round A for next yr. that is nice boost for the draft pool or a nice trade chip. For perspective sake...the 3rd pick in this yrs comp round A was held by the Dbax #36 overall (Aaron Blair) worth about $1.5M more in pool money.

homerawayfromhome wrote:The Indians got the 3rd pick in comp round A for next yr. that is nice boost for the draft pool or a nice trade chip. For perspective sake...the 3rd pick in this yrs comp round A was held by the Dbax #36 overall (Aaron Blair) worth about $1.5M more in pool money.

Perhaps the Indians can target the Mariners Michael Morse and their Comp B at the deadline.. ?.

Nice grab for the Tribe on the comp pick (even if they dropped a spot). Could be a very nice trade chip.

Personally would want more than Mike Morse. Raul Ibanez intrigues me more from the Mariners. Raburn is having a better season than Morse. Plus, Morse struggles against righties. OPS is under .700 against them...he does hit lefties well. Problem is the Tribe has both Stubbs and Raburn who also hit lefties well. Tribe could use Ibanez way more IMO (also having a better year). Tribe as a team has actually hit slightly better against lefties this year too...which is a huge change from years past. Tribe is 6th in the AL with a .746 OPS against righties. However, they are 3rd in the AL with a .754 OPS against lefties. Obviously not a huge difference numbers wise, but we're gonna face a lot more righties the rest of the way than lefties. Ibanez's OPS against righties is over 200 pts higher than Morse's.

homerawayfromhome wrote:The Indians got the 3rd pick in comp round A for next yr. that is nice boost for the draft pool or a nice trade chip. For perspective sake...the 3rd pick in this yrs comp round A was held by the Dbax #36 overall (Aaron Blair) worth about $1.5M more in pool money.

homerawayfromhome wrote:Creative thinking there...Are you suggesting both from the M's or a swap for comp picks? I'd prefer Charlie Furbush (controlable LHRP) but that's me.

Here's one of my crazy ideas...

STL...ACab & Joe Smith & Indians comp A pick

CLE...Michael Wacha, Tim Cooney, Cory Jones & Cards comp B pick

Thoughts...

Not a huge fan of this for the Tribe, though maybe because I don't see Wacha as a TOR starter even with how he's looked. Still think he's a solid #3. Maybe without the comp picks involve, as I think Smith would have some solid value in his own right if we made him available. I'd want at least Cooney just for Smith. Solid backend relievers have value in this league.

I feel like you got more value out of Choo too. Sure Bauer has struggled but where he was when dealt was at or greater than Wacha...plus Choo had 1 year, Asdrubal had a year and a half. I also prefer Shelby Miller to Wacha, though Miller likely isn't available. There are definitely a few specs out there I wouldn't mind getting for Cabrera (if you go that route)...and the Cards have a few, same with the Pirates and even Reds...

I don't know. The more I think about it, the more I want the Indians to stand pat. A half a season of Garza gives you maybe an extra win over whoever he replaces (from a WAR standpoint. At most he'd get 13 more starts, and given that he's accumulated .9 WAR in 11 starts so far, you'd have to be generous to project him having more than a win difference between himself and, say, Scott Kazmir). Gallardo is having a bad year, and realistically there's not much reason to suspect he'll be better off in the AL. He would be interesting just because he's a guy under control for a little longer, but I think the price is too high on him and he's just not an impact piece at this point. I don't think I'd be willing to outbid other teams for either guy. If you can deal from your positions of strength and not touch Lindor/Salazar, I'd do it. But I don't think relievers and middle infielding prospects are going to be enough for Garza or Gallardo.

We have a lot of options, especially now that Salazar has made his debut and has done so well. As it is, I'm not sure who gets sent down when McAllister is back. I'm not sure there's a starter out there on the market that is a marked improvement over what we have existing. As it is we have a lot of people competing for rotation spots next year (Tomlin, Salazar, Carrasco, Bauer and House will all be competing for spots 4 and 5). We need a lefty reliever, and we could use a bat. That's about it.

Edible14 wrote:I don't know. The more I think about it, the more I want the Indians to stand pat. A half a season of Garza gives you maybe an extra win over whoever he replaces (from a WAR standpoint. At most he'd get 13 more starts, and given that he's accumulated .9 WAR in 11 starts so far, you'd have to be generous to project him having more than a win difference between himself and, say, Scott Kazmir). Gallardo is having a bad year, and realistically there's not much reason to suspect he'll be better off in the AL. He would be interesting just because he's a guy under control for a little longer, but I think the price is too high on him and he's just not an impact piece at this point. I don't think I'd be willing to outbid other teams for either guy. If you can deal from your positions of strength and not touch Lindor/Salazar, I'd do it. But I don't think relievers and middle infielding prospects are going to be enough for Garza or Gallardo.

We have a lot of options, especially now that Salazar has made his debut and has done so well. As it is, I'm not sure who gets sent down when McAllister is back. I'm not sure there's a starter out there on the market that is a marked improvement over what we have existing. As it is we have a lot of people competing for rotation spots next year (Tomlin, Salazar, Carrasco, Bauer and House will all be competing for spots 4 and 5). We need a lefty reliever, and we could use a bat. That's about it.

It depends who and what the Tribe puts on the table. Remember the Indians can deal up to half of their International FA pool slots and that competitive balance lottery pick which will land around mid-30's with a bonus pool slot over $1.5 M.

I'm not a fan of acq. Gallardo so I will pass using him as an example. So here's one I think might be reasonable & realistic...

These and other potentials may make some sense.. no sense.. or all the sense in the world.. the question remains.. would the combination of Russel/Samardzija/Martin really be worth what the Indians would give up.. would the change be so disruptive that the team could suffer? other considerations that aren't being presented?

These and other potentials may make some sense.. no sense.. or all the sense in the world.. the question remains.. would the combination of Russel/Samardzija/Martin really be worth what the Indians would give up.. would the change be so disruptive that the team could suffer? other considerations that aren't being presented?

Targeting Samardzija makes more sense than going for Garza but if the asking price for Garza is as high as being reported....well, yeah.

I'll pass on giving up Chisenhall. We have NOTHING behind him at 3B, and Garza wouldn't be enough of an upgrade to improve the team otherwise. Dealing Chiz, Salazar AND Jose Ramirez for Garza is entirely too much. And if it's for Bud Norris as stated above, HELL no.

Garza isn't an ace. He's a #2/#3 guy. Everyone else being discussed would be #4 on this team behind Masterson, Kluber and McAllister. Garza is the only one worth going after, and since he's a rental you can't give up too much for him. You certainly shouldn't create a black hole at 3B to get a #4 starter. That's insane.

Edible14 wrote:I'll pass on giving up Chisenhall. We have NOTHING behind him at 3B, and Garza wouldn't be enough of an upgrade to improve the team otherwise. Dealing Chiz, Salazar AND Jose Ramirez for Garza is entirely too much. And if it's for Bud Norris as stated above, HELL no.

Garza isn't an ace. He's a #2/#3 guy. Everyone else being discussed would be #4 on this team behind Masterson, Kluber and McAllister. Garza is the only one worth going after, and since he's a rental you can't give up too much for him. You certainly shouldn't create a black hole at 3B to get a #4 starter. That's insane.

Chiz, Salazar AND Jose Ramirez not for Garza..

Lonnie Chisenhall, Danny Salazar AND Jose Ramirez & the IFA $ 1,992 K Slot (no out of pocket expense) for Leonys Martin OF, Jeff Samardzjia RHSP and James Russel LHRP.. I believe Samadzjia would slot in behind Masterson and Kluber, but ahead of McAllister and Ubaldo...

BTW.. both Mark Reynolds and Mike Aviles can play 3B. It is also my contention that Carlos Santana could also hold his own defensively at 3B. While not the perfect solution, it does provide depth, talent and fixes two of the three biggest problems the Indians club has..

Edible14 wrote:I'll pass on giving up Chisenhall. We have NOTHING behind him at 3B, and Garza wouldn't be enough of an upgrade to improve the team otherwise. Dealing Chiz, Salazar AND Jose Ramirez for Garza is entirely too much. And if it's for Bud Norris as stated above, HELL no.

Garza isn't an ace. He's a #2/#3 guy. Everyone else being discussed would be #4 on this team behind Masterson, Kluber and McAllister. Garza is the only one worth going after, and since he's a rental you can't give up too much for him. You certainly shouldn't create a black hole at 3B to get a #4 starter. That's insane.

Chiz, Salazar AND Jose Ramirez not for Garza..

Lonnie Chisenhall, Danny Salazar AND Jose Ramirez & the IFA $ 1,992 K Slot (no out of pocket expense) for Leonys Martin OF, Jeff Samardzjia RHSP and James Russel LHRP.. I believe Samadzjia would slot in behind Masterson and Kluber, but ahead of McAllister and Ubaldo...

BTW.. both Mark Reynolds and Mike Aviles can play 3B. It is also my contention that Carlos Santana could also hold his own defensively at 3B. While not the perfect solution, it does provide depth, talent and fixes two of the three biggest problems the Indians club has..

Reynolds is terrible at 3rd, Aviles true value is to be able to play all over, not be locked down to one position and how do you figure Santana can handle 3rd base at the major league level? Cause he has a heartbeat?