Flashback: In one of those delicious baseball ironies, numerous members of the staggered Dodgers now are on the outside looking in, as the teams on which they were on last season continue the fight for playoff spots.

Now this probably isn’t realistic, but I wouldn’t mind watching these guys play together for one season. It could very well be a frustrating season with errors and stupidity, but the experience and development these guys would get would be just priceless to the 2-4 seasons after.

Nice game for the kids…I heard Matt Kemp is going to some training in Arizona in the off season..He’s even moving there for that..Let’s hope he can improve his plate discipline so he can become the great player I think he will be…..

And just in case anyone on here didn’t know…Ned says GRADY will be back next season…obviously so will NED…so you better all get used to it….

First great article by TJ Simers in the Times this morning..in case anyone hasn’t read it…DO…

Wonderful 7-1 Victory for our Mighty Los Angeles Dodgers over the Arizona Diamondacks.Grady Little, I just love the way you stuck by your players and didn’t even bat an eye when great disppointment had struck this Team!You know I’m talking about Jonathan Broxton & Takashi Saito.Lets not forget that they were the number 1 tandem set up man and closer in the league!Sometimes great adversity can build greater character and we know you guys will be greater than ever in 2008. Grady Little, you gained tremendous respect for what you did and hope you manage us for 2008.Superman Jeff Kent,we love you for being such a great leader, and lets all believe for a 2008 World Series Victory!Some guys may have to check their hearts, and forgive me if I am wrong,but I Schmidt & Furcal,if you take the criticism positively you will be greater players and people!Ned Colletti, we have the nucleus of a championship Team.Lots and lots of communication with Grady is in store for a healthy 2008 World Series!Ain’t no mountain ever high enough!

Great job by the youth tonight. Atleast our team had enough pride to salvage ONE game this season, even though I didn’t watch most of the game(I watched Redskins-Giants, =( tough loss). Maybe we can build some momentum for next year…

Although general manager Ned Colletti has said repeatedly that Little will return as manager in 2008, Little has been under siege as the Dodgers have fallen out of the postseason race. Veterans have criticized his lineups, game management and his tolerance of the independence exhibited by rookies in a clubhouse that has become increasingly divided by age.

Grady lost the clubhouse this year and he knows it. We need a new face as manager. I want someone with a strong personality, someone like a Pinella or Ozzie Guillen who you know would never lose a clubhouse. I think Dave Duncan would be a good fit for our team. Maybe even Jimmy Williams. I soundly believe this team will not win with Grady because they just don’t have the respect for him and he is afraid to stand up to veteran players wanting more playing time and front office people. This years dodger team has depressed me where last years team made me feel happy. I know we have the young talent, evn though we still may be a year or two away its just a managerial change and a few front office changes that are holding us back from the playoffs in ’08. I can’t stop thinking about the team and I am so depressed about it. I REALLY hope we do better next year…

just wondering.. does anyone want to buy dodgers tickets for the tuesday game against the rockies? they’re season ticket seats on the reserved level behind homeplate (section 4, row E, seats 7-10) i can’t go.. i am selling them at a discount.. 4 tickets + preferred parking for $75.00. please email me if you’re interested!

Read Kurnick report that there is a possiblity that KENT may no return next year. Well my feelings are mixed and I’m sure I’m not alone. I’m happy about Tony Abreu who I assume will be the replacement. He looks like a fine ballplayer, ready to play in the Major leagues. But I have to admit losing future Hall of Famer Jeff Kent 20Hrs 79RBI is scarry. I missed the game today because of a birthday party I attended. I was very happy about the results, I feel it is a step forward.

YOu guys have got to read Simers article. This guy is truly trying to split the Dodgers in two. I just hope if Colletti is going to bring Loney and Kemp in Gradys office to talk he better be doing it with Lugo and Kent and Lowe as well. Just because they are older doesn’t mean they get a free pass. If anybody on the dodger team thinks there “bulletproof” its these **** vets who aren’t taking responsibility for their actions.

Bills looked awesome today! He was toying with the hitters. I loved those two eefus curve balls he threw, first time he’s thrown that pitch in a game. His command of all his pitches was excellent today. Nice to see he threw a few change ups today, the one that froze Carlos Quentin was priceless!

You can’t really be as ignorant as your most recent columns suggest. I guess it’s just more of your tired schtick.

The kids are for real. And why shouldn’t they be upset with the way Grittle has treated them? It’s always been the same; a rookie has to beat the vet to get the position. In the case of Loney and Kemp, they both did that long before they were given the job — in fact Kemp’s job was stripped from him after he hustled himself into an injury and then taken away.

As for having to go through struggles, both Loney and Kemp have, and have come out the other side with their game better than ever. Everybody knows/knew that Kemp’s weakness is the breaking ball, yet he’s still hitting for a very high average and plenty of power. Loney struggled through August only to be second in the NL in RBI thus far in September.

Next October you’ll be eating your words. Do you prefer them on old-fashioned paper or in an electronic form?

IS this the same guy who in August said grady is one of the BEST managers in ALL of baseball!!!!Pierre sixty steals close to 200 hits is an OK signing, for his hustle and some of the other stuff he does. But grittle inadequacies managing this team is what cost them. If grady wanted to start Loney at first at the beginning of the season he could’ve, but he wanted Nomar to bat third an play first for the first two months before he even thought of benching him. Or what about Bills in the Pen that is ALL grady he sets the rotation. Or the way he has thrown Broxton four days in a row a FEW times yet STILL doesn’t think he’s tired even though Broxton said it himself. Or the way grittle just ran Martin to the ground by not resting him. Or Gonzo getting so much playing time over Ethier and Kemp. Or sticking with Betemit for the first two months even while he couldn’t hit his weight. Not to mention the way he’s mismanaged pinch hitters. What about playing Saenz at first not only that batting him clean up. I could go on and on but I will stop.

Again swood keep your little know it all attitude from posting my name…

Say what you want about TJ Simers, and I don’t like him, but you have to give some importance and credibility to what he’s saying. I do get a bad feeling about Kemp, he seems like a guy who is very much into himself. Loney, seems a bit aloof, but I don’t get the feeling he’s a bad guy, but I did take exemption to his “who said he was a leader” comment about Kent. I believe he showed his immaturity there. Ethier has been described as “moody” I guess with Grady’s juggling of the line up and Andre being a yo-yo in Grady’s world, I’d be moody to. I guess what I’m trying to say is that Simers article, though not alarming, should be cause for concern. I believe that this bad karma and Grady Little continuing at the helm is going to send this organization into a tail spin again. Oh well, we wanted the kids…Now we got them!!!

Not only did the Padres get swept by the Rockies to jeopardize their playoff hopes, Milton Bradley injured his right knee while being restrained by manager Bud Black during an eighth-inning altercation with first-base umpire Mike Winters

I think the way the kids have been shuffled up and down when a lot of them deserved to be on the team and then shuffled in and out of the lineups once they were up is ahrd to deal with and maybe effected their attitudes a little. BUT, what the stories keep mentioning is that the older guys were unhappy with the lineups, meaning they thought the vets should have gotten even MORE playing time when most fans and tv experts thought they were getting too much as it was.

I think we need to wait until next year to see if any of these guys are really bad apples or not. I don’t remember hearing any bad stuff about Kemp or Loney before Gonzalez started his whining. And Loney has every right to feel he’s been cheated out of half a season and the team would’ve been better off.

Bottom line: Signing Gonzo and Nomar was a HUGE mistake and the Dodgers are paying for it now.

I might add that what the Dodgers need is a manager with some toughness who demands respect from vets and rooks alike. Someone like Gibson. Not one of these make everyone happy “player managers” like Grady.

“This has to be settled going into spring training,” Lowe said. “If there has to be a knockout, drag-out fight, so be it. But it cannot carry over where we’re having this same conversation. We can’t have the young players believing they are bulletproof.

don’t know what D.Lowe is trying to say! he isn’t going to lose his Job anyway so why speak to the media?

sick and tired of hearing about the club chemistry… the season is almost over just play and have some fun!!!

The Kids are alot better than the vets let’s face it!

Kent is the only veteran who had a productive season but he isn’t a leader!

he is trying to be rayt now coz he knows it’s over! and what kinds of leader was that?

Loney and Kemp did the rayt thing!

Kent started it and they should answer back! and so they do!

but that’s enough!

the veterans can’t shut their mouths! they are acting more like a kid!

I’m writing this in hopes that it might reach the right pair of eyes.*********In NOTES: by Ken Gurnick 9/23, he states that there is an increasing possiblity of Jeff Kent not returning next year. I know many of you are preparing for the celebration but although I am excited about the Youth momemement my self, I still fear seeing the man who leads the team with 20 HRS, is second with 79 RBI, is one of the best players ever to wear a Dodger uniform and a sure fire Hall of Famer, get up and leave when his very presence (ON THE FIELD)is still an asset to this team. I for one don’t want him to leave yet and I wish someone will convence him to stay at least until his contract ends.

The veterans are now whining about their lost opportunity to win a championship, and trying to blame the kids. If any of the players — as opposed to management — are responsible for this year’s failure, THE VETERANS CAUSED THE PROBLEMS.

It seems apparent that some of the veterans, at the very least Gonzalez, spent all year whining to Grittle for more playing time. If they really wanted the TEAM to win they would have put away their egos, recognized that these kids are simply better than them at this point in their respective careers, and lobbied Grady to start the best possible team day-in-and-day out.

The reality is that Gonzo and some of the other veterans were more interested in one last shot at THEIR OWN GLORY than they were in the success of the team. They would rather have lost while starting than win while playing a supporting role. They played and they lost. Essentially they got what they asked for. So for the most part they should just SHUT UP.

The veterans could have taken an entirely differenct approach. They could have become the kids biggest supporters. One is inclined to believe that such an approach by the veterans would have led to more positive and probably more humble attitudes on the part of the kids.

At the beginning of this year, I thought that we would probably need one more year to be ready to rock the baseball world. It turns out I was right and wrong. These kids were ready this year, but were denied the opportunity.

As a reward for their selfish attitudes, the veterans denied themselves an opportunity to play in post-season and, given the lack of any great teams in the NL this season, a good shot at the World Series. Maybe they could have secured a place in Dodger hearts alongside other guys who knew their role was a lesser but still important one. See for example Mickey Hatcher ’88.

The veterans blew it.

But the kids will be back.

While I’m disappointed about this year, I am very excited about the next five to ten years.

This is par for the course with Kent. He is a big baby and always has been. Now , I have no problem if he returns but in 05 when we were eliminated he caused trouble and he has done so this year.

His on field performance is average though Pierre. I mean on offense yes still above average, but I can honestly think of at least 20 balls that most 2nd baseman get to that he dosen’t anymore. So without stretching it for each of his 20 HR there were 2-3 hits he allowed that MLB avg 2nd base guy does not.

If you take into account the direction of the team and the direction of Kent’s career maybe he should go. Or he can look up at the first place Arizona team, younger than our team, look in the mirror and say wait a minuet..this is a good team here and instead of being a red *** maybe i should help these guys. But no he is tooo selfish for that….

Both the vets and kids need to take some responsibility for this, but IMO the vets started it; namely, Gonzo.

Back in August, there was a slight indication of this when, in an interview with the LA Times, he said something to the efffect that he’ll have to decide if he’s back given “the current situation”. I took that to mean “his playing time”.

Then Kent chimed in, Loney responds, etc. But if the vets are truly vets, why are they going to the press? Are they teaching the kids that when you can’t keep it together internally, you whine to the press and call them out? In some ways, Loney calling Kent out was correct (If you believe this line of thinking). Look at what happened when the kids all finally played together. I know it’s one game but I’m sure the kids were walking around going, “Uh, huh, yeah!!”

Lowe’s comments are fine with me. He sounds more interested in the Dodgers than with himself.

I remember Kent looking like a piece of **** in that 2002 WS game 7 against the Angels.

I think the vets are upset that the young guns act like they deserve to play. They can’t handle them nipping at their ankles. Problem is, it took Kent and Gonzo a while to make their names in baseball (especially Gonzo) so they can’t relate to Loney and Kemp, etc., who are already tearing the cover off the ball at 22. Jealous a-holes, I say.

If there is one thing the McCourts can’t handle is bad press. So I am kinda with diehard on this…expectations were not close to being met. we had a team most picked to finish first and we finished 4th. Coletti tried to BS people by saying yeah this guy I signed isnt as talented, but he plays the game the right way, he wants to be here in LA. Which is all a bunch of BS. In general we would all be better off if we did not belive what we read in the papers…

I wish Grady wasn’t coming back, but without a miracle, I think he is…

Would be nice to see the rest of the season with the same lineup as last night, but I think I heard Grady say that because the Rockies are in the playoff hunt, he would not compromise the lineup…LOL..guess that means the same ol vets sprinkled in….think we would win more the other way..

I thought Grady was the man for the job last year but the way he’s handled the club this year I’m ready for him to go. None of this would have happened if he had been a MANAGER and played the best players and told the vets to shut up and play when asked to. He let this get out of hand and he should have to pay for it.

This whole deal with Kent is strange to me. From what I’ve been told he’s great in the club house. Why he all of a sudden did this is beyond me. Maybe we don’t know everything that goes on behind closed doors and maybe he had a right to say what he said. Who knows? But once again Grady let this whole deal get way out of hand. Gonzo complained last year about not playing, did Ned think that was going to change? Get rid of Ned and Grady. We’re starting over with young talent and I think we need to start over with management. Let somebody run this club that knows the players we have now and knows how to handle them.

For starters let Logan take over as GM, let him sign his manager and let Howell take over the pitching staff. He know the up and coming pitchers better than anybody.

I went over all your comments about the Vets, especially about Kent, I both agree with some and diagree with others. I don’t think arguing makes any sence, everbody sees thing in their own way. I could state that, “Im sorry I asked” but also I believe that I will take it all to bed with me(I need something to keep me occupied), tonight and HOPE I’m wiser tomorrow.

I agree that he’ll be back, I’m just so pissed I thought I’d give my two cents about management one more time. I hate it for every Dodger fan. This season didn’t have to be this way. I’m also sorry my boy JB couldn’t hold up to his end of the deal down the stretch. Me and my dad could tell he wasn’t right about a month and a half ago. I wish he’d said something earlier but he’s a competator and wanted to help his team win. Maybe Grady will have a life changing winter and will handle the club better next year.

What really disappoints me, is the fact that Frank McCourt has made this huge investment in renovating the stadium to make the Dodger experience more enjoyable to the fans, but yet, the most important thing, the team, has become a joke. I really believe that Mr. McCourt wants to bring a winner to LA, but the people running things, the Ned and Grady Comedy Hour, are making a mockery of his investment. You can say what you want about the kids or the vets or Jeff Kent, I would lean towards believing the kids are wrong in this matter, but at the end of the day it is Ned and Grady who should bear the brunt of the blame. They created this atmosphere, Ned by not pulling Grady’s reigns, and Grady by just outright refusing to use any rhyme or reason for his line up juggling. He is the one who created a tense atmosphere by benching guys who were coming off a 3 for 4 night and replacing them with guys who were 2 for their last 35 but were complaining about playing time. His insistence on going to Olmedo Saenz in key, clutch situations and his total disregard to playing must win baseball during the last 2 weeks of the season. TJ Simers has some heavy comments about the kids, I tend to believe a lot of what he wrote, but I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt over the course of a full season of playing. As for Ned and Grady, well I believe that Ned needs another off season to shine, but Grady must go since he is the main cause of the rift that is tearing this organization apart. He lost control of the team, vets and kids, and he is not one to accept that. If your young players don’t respect coaches, veterans or don’t want to be on the same page as your team philosophy, send them back to Vegas and let them play a few more games against Tucson and Fresno in 100+ degree heat, that will change their attitude. The Dodgers must regain their control and return to where they belong, amongst the elite franchises in MLB. But not with Grady.

I prefer Gibby, i absouletly agree, he his the man behind the Dbacks sucess. I think E. Byrnes is a perfect example, of how much a good coach can change a player. Kemp, Andre, LaRoche could all benefit from him. I think Martin plays like Gibby use too, just ask all the 2b and ss in the league.

I agree completely. Grady knew he was tired but he just kept running him out there. As a fan and not a relative, I don’t want to see my so called “future closer” having a career ending arm problem because my dumb manager is over pitching a 23 year old kid.

Fire TJ Simers. I’m sick to death of this guy. He goes on and on about how sports is the toy department and we all need to have a little fun, then when an athlete spurns him he screams bloody murder and rips the guy.

As for the ongoing debate about the ’07 Dodgers, this putrid mess has more than enough villains to go around. But at the end of the day, whose responsibility was it to bridge the communication gap between old and young before the cancer ripped the team apart? The easy answer is Grady…but I’m not sure. He has enough problems with line-up cards and pitching changes. The answer lies in the players and it’s pretty darn obvious no veteran took the time or had the skill or guts to get it right. “They just don’t get it…” is not a show of leadership. Sorry, Jeff. Maybe getting six inches from someone’s face behind closed doors is. When Orosco lined Gibby’s hat with shoe black, did Gibson whine to the press? NO. He called a players-only meeting, chewed their ***, told ‘em they were all a joke and no wonder they never won anything. The rest is history.

When Orosco lined Gibby’s hat with shoe black, did Gibson whine to the press? NO. He called a players-only meeting, chewed their ****, told ‘em they were all a joke and no wonder they never won anything. The rest is history.

—

I’ll never forget that. And that’s enough for me for him to be our manager, let alone the way he played the game.

For all of you who want Grady and Ned fired(I’m included) forget about it. McCourt is more interested in making parking better and shortening the lines at the concession stands(rediculous lol) then he is making this team a playoff team. Sad for me to say but they will both be back next year…

That was a time when I was maddest…I love Beltre..still think he is the BEST 3rd baseman in baseball…and he’s gotten his hitting stroke back..but I think if he had stayed in the Nat League he would have been the same as he was the year he had his b/o year…maybe not that good, but good….was furious when we let him go….there was our slugger.

I expect Kent will play some games about retirement, but will be back for 2008. After all, where else is he going to get $9 million. I really don’t care one way or the other – if he comes back or not. He was certainly the most productive of the veteran players, but he’s getting slow and pretty terrible in the field and, of course, on the basepads. Actually I like Abreu. I think he could have done better if he was played regularly, and he should get much more playing time next year.
I still think that Grady and Colletti both deserve being fired, but McCourt probably won’t make that move. Too bad.

Thinking out loud here and stretching a bit, but assuming Kent comes back next year, why not ask him what he feels his role should be? What if I were Ned or Grady and said, “Look, Jeff, we know you want to win and so do we, but the kids are our future. You were one of the most consistent players on this team and we want you back, but we’d like to propose a role for you this year and beyond. We’ll start you at 2B to begin the season and, depending on your play, we’ll move you into a utility role to mentor the kids for the rest of the season. From there, we’d like to possibly bring you back to coahing the following year”

In another season, the incident might have died without a remark. It might not have escalated to the heated moment it did in the clubhouse in Montreal on Sunday night. On another club, the issue of clubhouse politics might not be such a volatile one.

But these are the Mets, the bad, jinxed and endlessly controversial club for whom everything goes wrong. Always. Thus, Jeff Kent, a player with undetermined ability and the scantiest of reputations, found himself at the center of the latest clubhouse storm.

Kent, the second baseman acquired in the trade for David Cone last month, effectively squared off with the rest of the Mets Sunday night, refusing to submit to a clubhouse prank and wear the ridiculous outfit the players had substituted for his street clothes in his locker. Not Kent’s Style

Kent’s stand — the second baseman pitched the clothes onto the floor of the clubhouse before Sunday night’s game against the Expos and then again challenged the Mets to produce his regular clothes after the 7-5 loss — ultimately required the intervention of Manager Jeff Torborg. The manager, in an explosion filled with expletives, ordered an end to the scene.

“It wasn’t an attempt to air out the club or to protect anyone,” said Torborg. “I wanted to get the heck out of there.”

It appeared today that it was going to be difficult for Kent to extricate himself from his isolated clubhouse position, and, in fact, the 24-year-old, who doesn’t bother to disguise his temper or arrogance, appeared determined not to soften his stance.

“I paid my rookie dues in Toronto,” said Kent, who maintained that he had willingly gone along with similar stunts as a member of the Blue Jays. “I feel I have endured my embarrassments, my punishment.”

“I felt I was being taken advantage of,” Kent added. “They wanted to go overboard. I stuck up for myself. I won’t be pushed around.”

Kent was most emphatic in clarifying that, contrary to the way it might have appeared to the veterans on the club, he did not go to Torborg for help. And Torborg went out of his way to confirm Kent’s claim, saying he had been informed of the problem by the club’s traveling secretary.

“I’m not out to protect Jeff Kent,” Torborg said. “He’ll have to deal with it all himself.”

Kent, who struck out twice with the bases loaded during the Mets’ 10-8 victory over the Cubs tonight, appears eager to have his hands full, and the specter of problems with umpires and in the clubhouse recalls the experience of Gregg Jefferies, who never found happiness in New York.

Kent, barely 72 hours after pledging to reporters that he would be at his locker regardless of his personal fortunes in any game, evacuated the clubhouse in Cincinnati after his misplay of a ninth-inning grounder led to a defeat.

“Not tonight,” Kent told reporters as he raced to the team bus.

Kent argued vehemently with Umpire Bruce Froemming in his first game with the Mets. And Sunday night after being called out on strikes by Jerry Crawford, Kent flung his helmet and bat near the umpire and complained all the way out to second base.

He was quoted in a Toronto Globe and Mail article last weekend as saying New York was worse than he had imagined, and was reported to have taken verbal swipes at Toronto third baseman Kelly Gruber, the man he had filled in for in 1992. While standing by his claim that he had lost some respect for Gruber, Kent today again insisted “80 percent of the quotes were misprinted.”

“He was not well liked in his own clubhouse,” a former official with the Blue Jays said of Kent’s experience with Toronto’s Class AA club. “He’s totally oblivious to what it takes to fit in with a team. And he had problems with the umpires within the first month of the season last year.”

Kent clearly has imperiled his position in the clubhouse. He was savagely ridiculed after Sunday night’s episode by the club’s veterans, who thought the rookie had deemed himself above standard hazing rituals and who resented the fact that the manager had been drawn into the scene.

But Kent remained defiant.

“I won’t hold it against them,” said Kent of his teammates. “What they do, I don’t know. Maybe they’ll know next time. I’m going to play the game the best I can, good reputation or bad. It was an incident. That’s all.”

the whole beltre thing was rediculous. he ****** for what 3 or 4 years and management kept saying just wait it will pan out. they were dead on, it finally panned out then we just let him go. that really ******. it doesn’t feel as bad cause he isn’t putting up those same numbers…but at the time that was a low.

Beltre was offered a nice contract, a fair contract and he got a better contract. I hope he is happy. I think he is one of the best defensive 3b guys I ever saw, but the dodgers offered him more than Scott Rolen, a guy with the same glove and consistent numbers…so I don’t feel like we didn’t try it just didn’t work out.

—

oc register today:

It would be easier to dissect what Jeff Kent really thinks if it were possible to decipher exactly what he said.

Nevertheless, Kent’s lament in Denver last Thursday seemed to indicate he felt the Dodgers weren’t served well by their young players.

Which meant that Kent, the 15-year veteran, was acting like a rookie and letting emotion consume reality.

Without the kids, this team finishes behind the Giants.

They apparently will finish behind everyone butthe Giants in the National League West. They might even have their second losing season in this decade. But on July 26, they led the West by a game. The fact that they’re 22-29 since then is a disaster that James Loney, Matt Kemp, Andre Ethier, Russell Martin and Chad Billingsley have done their best to prevent.

The Dodgers lost because they got one victory out of Jason Schmidt, and because Randy Wolf didn’t pitch an inning after July 3, and because Hong-Chih Kuo was gone after June 26, and because Derek Lowe went from 16-8 to 12-13.

They lost because Rafael Furcal and Juan Pierre, the 1-2 hitters, rank 53rd and 57th in NL on-base percentage, and because Jonathan Broxton began throwing home run balls at game-breaking times, and because Nomar Garciaparra had 24 extra-base hits all season, and because there wasn’t enough bench to sustain everything.

They did not lose because of their kids — or because of Kent, for that matter, since the second baseman had a scorching July and had a .498 slugging percentage.

And they didn’t lose because of Manager Grady Little, who has the task of mixing the Dodgers who won’t be here with the ones who will carry the flag for 10 more years.

Through Saturday, Loney had 103 hits in 89 games and was slugging .521. His average was .301 on Aug. 28 and was .325 on Saturday.

Kemp was hitting .336 with 10 homers — and five triples — in 91 games. He had 19 hits in the first 23 games of September.

Martin had 18 homers and 21 steals and led the club in RBIs, and realistically has been their MVP since they first unboxed the baseballs in Vero Beach.

Ethier was hitting .289 with 30 doubles.

Billingsley’s ERA has fallen a full run, from 4.15 to 3.15, since late May, and he had five consecutive quality starts beginning on Aug. 23 and won four.

Not one of them was swallowed whole by the pressure or by the apparent coldness in their clubhouse. And when Kent’s analysis came out in Friday’s papers, it was Loney who shot back, “Who said he was a leader?”

Sound familiar? In 2005, a Dodger observed that it was difficult to lead when you “have a locker in the corner of every clubhouse” and “put on your headphones and sit in the corner reading motorcycle magazines.”

And just because Milton Bradley said it doesn’t mean it wasn’t true.

The Dodgers’ instability has traditionally spawned a culture of complaint, and that’s a problem Little, Ned Colletti and Frank McCourt must fix.

It’s simple self-preservation. Generally, players get more selfish the older they get and the more often they’re traded. Bringing in the Wise Old Veteran only works if the WOV can still play. If he can’t, he starts politicking for more innings and that one final contract. You could heat the Yukon with all the deadwood that lives in the Dodgers’ room.

Contrast this with the Angels, who have won four playoff series since the Dodgers last won one.

As irritating as it was when Bill Stoneman let the nucleus of the ’02 club walk, and when he let available veterans pass by (i.e., Mike Lowell), it did prevent obsolescence.

And the Angels don’t try to stop gaps with someone else’s glue. Just nine of their current players have ever been to the big leagues with another organization (as opposed to 21 Dodgers). None but Garret Anderson has ever played for an Angels manager besides Mike Scioscia.

Sure, some Angels blanched when Casey Kotchman and Jeff Mathis and Dallas McPherson were forced into the lineup too early. The Angels surrounded themselves with Plan Bs when they gave the kids a second chance. McPherson is still hurt, but Kotchman and Mathis have been valuable, along with Reggie Willits and Maicer Izturis and Joe Saunders and on and on.

“If there was one area I’d give a high grade to, it would be the kids,” Scioscia said.

“This year they knew what to expect,” Anderson said. “They’d been in the situations, they knew the competition better. They were far more ready.”

It comes down to identity, and that’s the Dodgers’ crisis. It’s much easier to identify what an Angel is than a Dodger.

Loney, Kemp, etc. will begin changing that whenever the motorcycles leave the Dodgers clubhouse, along with the exhaust.

I know Beltre was on ‘the stuff’ his contract year but I don’t care. He was the greatest Dodger I ever saw play and I will always love him no matter who he plays for. He was the guy who really got me into baseball. Jungar do you remember that walk off grand slam he hit against the giants with 2 outs? I will never forget that(it was like 2 AM for me and I had a big test the next day). lol.

cameron I care but certainly not as much as other people. I care that Bonds broke the record BECAUSE he juiced. I think he would have been a very good player without the juice but I don’t think he’d be the all time home run king.

No Grady deserves as much blame as anyone, but not all of it. In fact my suspicions are if it was up to him…the youth movement would have started in April. No way a baseball lifer could sit there and say, ya Nomar will regain his power an second now or that Gonzo and his 15hr is enough out of our LF when our CF will hit 0hr. Or that out machine with no arm in CF is a good thing..But maybe, and probably actually I am giving Grady to much credit.

When I say managing your manager, i mean if players were complaining about the lineups etc that you pull him in your office and say, i know you are trying to keep the peace but i have your back, do what it takes to win..bench whoever you want etc..I don’t have a feeling that conversation ever happened.

yea Jungar I think it was the opposite actually…I wouldn’t be surprised if Ned was actually pressuring Grady to play his free agent signings and put them in spots in the lineup where they could produce so he didn’t look bad to Mr. McCourt.

I have actually dropped my fire Ned/Grady stance because of yesterday. The vets ***** and moan and what does management do, play all the kids. And they win! Props to them on that. If Kent (and all vets) never wore our uniform again I could care less.

I kinda agree with you on that post jungar except I think Grady should have benched them anyways and let the owner decide if the manager who made the right moves or the GM who made the wrong moves lead our team.

I like Beltre better then Chavez also diehard…I saw your LONG post about me…what the **** was that about, couldn’t you tell I was joking with the drinking comment? You will never be able to convince me Pierre is a good signing and I haven’t defended Grady in months.

jungar are you serious??? Managment waits until Sept. 23 when we are out of contetion to play the kids and you give them props???? Plus just read grittle’s quote classic:
I heard Grady say that because the Rockies are in the playoff hunt, he would not compromise the lineup…LOL..guess that means the same ol vets sprinkled in….think we would win more the other way..

Jungar — One game does not a trend make for the kids. BUT perhaps the kids were trying to show the vets up.

As I think about what I wrote above, playing all the kids appeared to put pressure on them to perform……and they did! If they had that “Let’s show the vets whose boos” mentality, they might have ate it by trying to hard, etc.

come on diehard…Beltre was offered the contract. 5 years 84 million and turned it down for 7 years and 105 million (i belive) but the main thing was that Beltre turned it down..so Depo went to plan B which was JD Drew.

I can show you the quotes and timeline to prove it if you would like.

Bottom line, Boras controlled the whole thing. He told the dodgers of the offer, the dodgers didnt even get a chance to match it and as a constallation prize we got Drew and Lowe.

Cameronwalden — I’m sure the kids enjoy playing the game, but they also have their careers to think about. As you hear players say all the time, baseball is a business.

At times, you will gets teams like the Detroit Pistons who have players take less to sacrifice for the team. Of course, they got 1 championship and none since then. However, the Yankees (over)pay and are competitive every year.

Once these kids get those big contracts, hopefully they will stay producitive.

They also want to be able to like playing for each other and their coach.

News: Beltre set a career high with his 40th double of the season Friday night.

Impact: If Beltre played in a park that wasn’t so tough on right-handed hitters, more of his 24 doubles at home likely would have gone out of the yard. Still, with one more homer this year, he will have more home runs than any year in his career save for his 48-homer 2004. (RotoWire –

News: Beltre hit his 24th home run Tuesday, which is second in the American League among third basemen.

Impact: You wouldn’t know it from the amount of ink he gets, but Beltre has been better than any AL third baseman this year aside from the out-of-this-world Alex Rodriguez. Beltre is second in SLG (.503), XBH (64) and HR (24), first in doubles (38) and third in SB (14). All the while playing in a park that is death on right-handed hitters. And he’s turned in Gold Glove defense at the hot corner. During the Mariners’ recent slide, he’s been one of the few constants, batting .280 with four home runs, nine XBH and an .875 OPS in his last 17 games. (RotoWire – Wed. Sep 12, 2007)

Cameron — I’m not saying go out and hire mercenaries for your team, but baseball has changed so much that, aside from the players now going into the Hall Of Fame (Biggio, Bagwell, Bonds, Gwynn, etc), what cap will some of these players where if they are constantly moving?

for all those wondering what our little darlings are like, from someone inside the clubhouse:

In my interactions with all the young guys, I haven’t found any to be “jerks” in the traditional sense. Kemp is definitely immature, and has a lot to learn. On the other hand, he’s very young, hasn’t spent much time in the minors. So really, is it all that surprising? Ethier is perhaps a little moody, and I’ve always gotten a whif or arrogance from him, but at the same time, it’s not like talking to him is unpleasant. Loney really just doesn’t talk all that much period. Is he a little cocky? Sure. You would be too if you hit all your life like he has. But he seems like a nice enough kid, and he plays hard.

We don’t see everything that goes on, but from my perspective, they’re really not much different than most young players I run into across sports. My experience with the young guys has never been unpleasant. I don’t personally find any of them too arrogant or cocky in a bad way. Maybe they are and I just don’t know it, which is always possible. I don’t travel with the team, nor am I privvy to everything that happens. For all I know, they’re blowing off veterans left and right. But if you’re asking me if I’ve seen them act like they’re already better than the vets, my answer is no.

Can Kemp come off a little cocky? Sure. Does Loney seem aloof at times? Sure. Is Ethier a little moody? Sure. But they’re also very young and still developing as players AND people, not to mention in how they deal with the media. It’s to be expected. I’m not trying to be an apologist, nor am I ignoring that they do need to mature. I just saying, I don’t find it particularly shocking.

Besides, if we’re really looking to break down clubhouse personalities, Nomar is as aloof as anybody in that clubhouse. Jeff Kent is totally standoffish. Derek Lowe can come off as a flakey and flighty. Brad Penny’s been as immature on the field as any of the “kids” at times. I don’t say that to disparage any of them, because they’ve certainly earned both their stripes and the ability to be a certain way. But it doesn’t change however the behavior may effect a clubhouse or rub other players. My point is that everybody young and old is accountable to some degree.

I also think this is where the lack of a true team leader (as least in my perception) really exposes itself as a problem. I’ve always thought that no player truly embodying that role could be an issue at some point, especially with backs against the wall. I wonder how much that’s come into play here. I wonder if this “disrespect” or “kids not feeling the urgency” would still be a problem is the Dodgers had played well on these two roadies.

sounds like a lot of these “attitude” problems have been way way way overblown.

Anybody read Ken Rosenthal’s column on foxsports.com about the Rockies.?..If we didn’t have enough to worry about next year, it certainly is the Rockies..I knew that this year, and in fact, I said during the middle of the season that the Rockies would finish in front of us..they have an extremely bright future…probably more so than the Dodgers..makes sense…go read it if you haven’t..

The Rockies just need some starting pitching and back end bullpen and they are going to be really good. Going to be interesting to see what they do with Helton with a great prospect like Joe Koshanksy waiting in the wings.

“…As disappointing as his injury was, the rotation survived as Billingsley stepped right in for Schmidt. ”

hahaha right in? GRunick has to be the worst beat writer on mlb.com. It’s took billingsley two months to get into the rotation after Schmidt went down. Thats not Schmidts fault…it’s grady and Ned’s fault.

The targets of most of this criticism? James Loney and Matt Kemp, both of whom were called in for a closed door meeting with both manager Grady Little and GM Ned Colletti. Earlier in the linked article, they discuss how Kemp showed bad teammate abilities by failing to properly meet Tony Abreu at home plate for a high five after he hit a home run to give the team a 1-0 lead the other day. In their eyes, this was simply more evidence that Kemp and Loney are not doing enough to help the Dodgers win the NL West.

James Loney: .331/.381/.528

Matt Kemp: .333/.367/.515

Loney in September: .395/.441/.721

Kemp in September: .358/.386/.507

James Loney and Matt Kemp have been, without question, the Dodgers two best hitters this year. They have literally carried the Los Angeles offense that was been dragged down by the poor performances of highly paid veterans Juan Pierre, Rafael Furcal, Nomar Garciaparra, and Luis Gonzalez. And yet, when you hear the Dodgers veterans tell the story, the reason this team didn’t make the playoffs is that they had too many young players.

Lowe actually outright states that he’s worried the team is rebuilding by giving so many at-bats to “developing” players such as Loney and Kemp, worried more about the future than winning immediately. Because, clearly, James Loney and Matt Kemp’s presence on the roster is about playing for the future…

Keep in mind that both Loney and Kemp began the year in Las Vegas, having been given no chance to compete for a job in spring training thanks to the offseason acquisitions of veteran players to play the positions they have ended up taking by force after the veterans failed.

The Dodgers, through their heavy pro-veteran entitlement, have enabled bad players to publicly blame good players for the team losing. Think about that – the guys who are actually responsible for the Dodgers struggles are taking aim at the guys who have kept them in the pennant race. And, thanks to the ridiculous gang of writers who cover the Dodgers, the pro-veteran story will be written without challenge, and the 2007 Los Angeles Dodgers will be held up as an example of what can happen when you tinker with team chemistry by promoting kids from the minors in the middle of a playoff race.

Congratulations, Los Angeles – you’ve officially gone from dysfunctional to embarrassing. If you want to unload noted troublemakers Kemp and Loney, there are 29 other franchises who will gladly take those young punks off your hands. Good luck winning with your highly entitled, overpaid, and essentially useless veteran core.

But you noticed the Rockies didn’t go out and sign washed up pitchers at the deadline like Loiaza and Trachsel…they promoted from within and have done much better…An organization like the Rockies and Angels trust what they have and don’t go out and overpay for junk…

What’s the love affair with Beltre? He had one great season–his contract year–and he chose to take the money and run…as most Boras clients do. If TEAM was the deciding factor and NOT money, would A-Rod have picked Texas…Beltre, Seattle…Gagne, Texas…the famous Luke Hochevar, KC…etc., etc.?

After reading all these articles on the Dodgers..it’s depressing…especially the article about how the Angels have handled their team and what they’ve done to fill in positions during injury…I don’t see Ned EVER getting this team right…I hope I’m wrong, but not encouraged..like alot of our young guys, but I think we need more..

the funny thing about kemp not being there to high five abreu, Now regardless i likd kent, but how many times has he not been up there to high five a teammate, i always see him waiting on the on deck circle.

drpdedbind, I couldn’t agree with you more. I was stating that Colorado has a good blue print for the future and they didn’t mortgage their youth or spend money unwisely like we did. Getting Esteban Loaiza was just one of many terrible moves that Ned Coletti has made. Its just so frustrating. Especially with Loaiza cause now we are stuck with him for next season as well. This has been one of the most frustrating seasons in recent memory.

Again I agree with you 100%! No doubt Logan deserves that GM spot. And Gibby or Hershiser would be great. Heck, anyone but Grady. I have never liked Grady. Even when we hired him and went to the playoffs last year I was extremely skeptical. Seeing what the Rockies and Angels are doing makes me frustrated as a Dodger fan. I am curious to know why we traded for Scott Proctor when we had Meloan just sitting there at Triple A. I think he could have done just as good as Proctor. And we absolutely should not have signed Loaiza. We would have been better sticking with Hull, Houlton and Stults. The whole thing makes no sense and its just frustrating.

Don’t be so quick to jump on the “Loaiza is a disaster” bandwagon. The guy has pitched, what, five games this year? He’ll be fine next season. So will Schmidt. These guys have the stones to pitch, unlike Tomko and Hendrickson, who somehow don’t believe in their stuff (maybe for good reason…).

Ya, maybe Loaiza needs more time to find his groove after recovering from his injury, but with the money we are paying him it wasn’t worth the gamble. I am hoping Schmidt will be fine. I would rather have Loaiza any day of the week over Hendrickson and Tomko just not for the money we are paying.

The Los Angeles Dodgers find a way to embarrass themselves every season, often around this time of year, when they inevitably succumb (and rather effortlessly) to the anxieties that come with failure.

Two years ago, they lost 91 games and then got really sloppy, firing their manager, conducting a search for a manager, firing the general manager conducting the search, conducting a search for a GM, hiring Ned Colletti, conducting a second search for a manager, and hiring Grady Little.

A year ago, after winning the wild card, they were swept by the New York Mets, then were shocked to discover outfielder J.D. Drew didn’t want to be there anymore, allowed that to color their Greg Maddux negotiations (agent Scott Boras was the connection), which moved Maddux to sign with the San Diego Padres, the Dodgers responding by signing Jason Schmidt, whose arm barely got him through spring training.

Today, the past (Jeff Kent, Derek Lowe, Luis Gonzalez, et al) and future (Matt Kemp, James Loney, Andre Ethier) are waging a public battle over control of the Dodgers lineup and clubhouse, a nasty affair that arrives with their virtual elimination from postseason contention and does not reflect well on owner Frank McCourt, Colletti, Little or any of the players. Thankfully, they’ve got all of October to hash it out.

The highlight, thus far, has been Kent’s complaint the next generation is too (pick one) arrogant, stupid or blind to follow his lead, to which Loney observed, “Who said he was a leader?”

At least Kent has another topic for his Hall of Fame speech.

What the Dodgers – expected to compete for the NL West title and destined for a fourth-place finish instead – do from here depends on McCourt, who already has canned two general managers in three years. Today, McCourt is right there with Jerry Reinsdorf in getting the least out of the most payroll, and sharing the ignominy of having the other team in town headed to the postseason.

Assuming McCourt allows his second-year, hand-picked general manager to continue, Colletti has a number of important issues to resolve in the coming weeks. Among them:

Little. Those are his lineups and, ultimately, that is his clubhouse. The lineups didn’t work and the clubhouse is a four-alarmer. This was a first-place team, or close to it, for three months. The team ERA jumped almost three-quarters of a run in the second half, and the season was lost. Little is under contract for next season and Colletti said publicly two weeks ago that the manager’s job is safe.

Kent. Guaranteed $9 million next season, he is batting .301, leads the club in home runs and is second in RBI, despite playing 135 games. If Kent, 39, doesn’t retire, is he traded?, thereby handing the team to …

Kemp, Loney, Ethier and All-Star catcher Russell Martin? So far, Martin has stayed above the contentiousness, though it’s possible he’s simply too exhausted to put up a fight. They can all play, but has Dodgers management asked too much of its farm system, too soon? Does Colletti move Kent and open a position for Tony Abreu, at 23? Has he seen enough of Nomar Garciaparra to hand third base to Andy LaRoche, at 24? Does he lash a few prospects together and get a third baseman? A starting pitcher? A little peace and quiet?

Crisis has arrived again for McCourt and Colletti, and so the Dodgers, and they can’t possibly put all the same guys in the same clubhouse together in February. But, hey, if they don’t get this one right, they’ll have another shot in a year.

thanks for the article..guess we aren’t the only ones questioning the Dodgers??!..lol

and agree with the Beltre comment…whatever the Dodgers do seems wrong…and what is more frustrating is the Dodgers are supposed to be the “storied” franchise, while the Angels are beating their tail in everything they do…what an embarrassment for us Dodger fans.

No Grady deserves as much blame as anyone, but not all of it. In fact my suspicions are if it was up to him…the youth movement would have started in April. No way a baseball lifer could sit there and say, ya Nomar will regain his power an second now or that Gonzo and his 15hr is enough out of our LF when our CF will hit 0hr. Or that out machine with no arm in CF is a good thing..But maybe, and probably actually I am giving Grady to much credit.

When I say managing your manager, i mean if players were complaining about the lineups etc that you pull him in your office and say, i know you are trying to keep the peace but i have your back, do what it takes to win..bench whoever you want etc..I don’t have a feeling that conversation ever happened.

the Dodgers are a “storied” franchise…except these days instead of a grown-together team of men, I expect some guy in a hockey mask wearing a human skin body suit and toting a chain saw to pop out of the locker room…

Is it too late to call up Bradley for next season? I mean it will be better the Jerry Springer is Kent comes back…why not add Bradley into the mix even if he is on crutches still…just will give him something to whack Kent with.

I don’t know what Ned is going to do in the offseason. I wonder if he will sign a veteran 3B or corner outfielder or let the kids have the jobs? I think he will definately get another starting pitcher, and someone else in the bullpen. I don’t know though he has alot of tough decisions…I just wish it was Logan White making them.

After reading the articles by Tom Singer & Jack O’Connell and one by Bill Gallo cartunist & writer for New York’s Daily News. Gallo also display a drawing of Emmett Kelly as the Brooklyn Bum sheddin a tear on Sept 24, 1957, when the Dodgers played there last home game at Ebbet’s Field in the borough of their birth. They grew up and left home after that, like a lot people do. 50 YEARS. I graduated high school that year. BOY HOW TIME FLIES.

When we played the DBacks in the finally of the series I watched the game with the AZ announcers. When Kemp came up they said something like, “he’s hitting .340 and he’s not even playing every other day? I don’t understand why this kid hasn’t played more? I think he’s their scariest hitter” If the AZ people are noticing he’s our best hitter how come we’re not?

i think that it was mean of kent to say all those mean things about the yongsters just cause he is getting older doesnt give him the right to bag on the yongsters!!!!good job yongsters!!!ethier,kemp,loney,abrue,martin,larouch,billingsly,&broxten!!

i think grady is aware about Kemp and Loney!!! That they are the scariest hitters on the team!

i really think he is just following orders from McCourt or Ned to play the vets!!!

and i think Grady knows about the rookies VS Veterans even before it came out!!!

remember D.Lowe saying that he doesn’t want the Kids to play alot of game coz it’s unfair to the “veterans”

i think it started that time! we just didn’t noticed it before!!!

now grady is aware of that so maybe he just decided to give every players some playing time!!! but even if he tried to do his best to be fair to his players he didn’t have much success to prevent the war from the clubhouse!

Van I agree with everything you said, except I think its Ned alone pressuring Grady to play the vets not McCourt. I think McCourt is more interested in making parking better and shortening the lines at the concession stands(rediculous lol) then he is making this team a playoff team.

i think that it was mean of kent to say all those mean things about the yongsters just cause he is getting older doesnt give him the right to bag on the yongsters!!!!good job yongsters!!!ethier,kemp,loney,abrue,martin,larouch,billingsly,&broxten!!

Maybe Kent said that about the youngsters to motivate them…maybe he thought that would make them mad and want to prove something this year and next year. Kent isn’t a dumb guy and I believe he wants this team to win and he knows our best shot to do it is through the young, talented guys and he thinks saying that stuff will motivate them. I think he has their best interest at heart.

Last year the Dodgers made it to the playoffs even w/o much of a contribution from Kent!!!

im not saying that Kent should get the blame for this season coz he does have a very productive season!

The problem is JP at 1st half! and then Nomar and Gonzo! our bench players didn’t get the Job done either!!! (Veterans)

just think if we have A-Rod here! A-Rod is not a quiet guy either! he wants to have some fun! Is kent going to treat him like **** just like what he is doing almost to everyone who he doesn’t get along with?

Ned, Grady and a handful of players should be blamed for the season. Fact is for our payroll and farm system we should have had more talent at the major league level then we had. The fact that you could compare the Rockies and Marlins talent to ours is rediculous because our payroll is more then both of theirs combined.

Kent leads by example. He works hard every day and never takes an AB off to pad his own stats. Russell will be the team leader in years to come but he is still in his mid 20s and in his first full year in the bigs. So for now Kent is the leader and the heart and soul of the team.

Van you don’t know Kent so you can’t say that. I think he has respect for others until they disrespect him. He seems to like veterans so I think they would get along ok. Plus they would be a good 4-5 punch in the lineup(even Grady could figure that out lol).

LaRoche’s Minor League performance would indicate he’s just as capable. Maybe it’s the injuries, but the fact that he’s had so many at such a young age is a red flag. Unless management is ready to fully commit to him, LaRoche might be a trade candidate.

Van you don’t know Kent so you can’t say that. I think he has respect for others until they disrespect him. He seems to like veterans so I think they would get along ok. Plus they would be a good 4-5 punch in the lineup(even Grady could figure that out lol).

Maybe Kent said that about the youngsters to motivate them…maybe he thought that would make them mad and want to prove something this year and next year. I agree Kent badly wants a ring and he thinks next year might be his last shot and he wants to make it a good one. So he will make sure the kids are motivated cuz they are our best players now.

The only person who knows what they were trying to say with the comments and why he made the comments is Kent himself. Van Kent wants to win and he is the heart and soul of the team and even though he made those comments the young guys still look up to him.

Ok, this is totally off what is being discussed here, but I just realized the Dodgers are missing a golden opportunity to salvage some dignity out of this season.

They need to start pressing the issue of having James Loney as the ROY. His numbers beat out every other rookie on an over all basis. BA/OBP, Fielding, Situational Hitting. He only lags behind Braun (the #1 candidate) in home runs and stolen bases.

With the Dodgers sitting 8 games behind the division leading Arizona Diamondbacks and 5 ½ games behind the Wild Card leading San Diego Padres and 4 games behind the Colorado Freaking Rockies, the 2007 season has been a colossal failure. It all falls at the feet of Colletti, the 2nd year Dodger General Manager.

When owner Frank McCourt fired Paul DePodesta 2 off-seasons ago, he said he was looking for a baseball man with experience and who was a “real” Dodger. Instead, he hired Colletti, whose career in baseball began in public relations, who had no GM experience and who came from the dreaded San Francisco Giant organization. This should have set alarms and whistles off right away. When you have Barry Bonds on your team, a lot of bad mistakes can be masked and the Giant success gave Colletti a false reputation by loose association.

The Dodgers won the NL Wild Card in 2006 and people started glad-handing Colletti, pretty much just because he was there. Outsiders ignored the fact that Derek Lowe, Brad Penny, Jeff Kent, J.D. Drew and an untouched farm system were products of Depodesta. Once again, a lot of mistakes were masked (like the acquisitions of Mark Hendrickson, Brett Tomko, Bill Mueller and Julio Lugo) and Colletti escaped criticism.

This past winter, he continued to make poor move after poor move. Despite the presence of James Loney, he re-signed Nomar Garciaparra to a 2-year, $18 million contract that effectively dictated that he play everyday. Predictably, Garciapara struggled mightily while Loney stayed at AAA Las Vegas. When the offensive woes became apparent, Garciaparra was switched to 3B to displace young infielder Wilson Betemit. What was Betemit’s problem? He only posted a .359 OBP/.474 SLG/.833 OPS line compared to .329/.357/.686 for Garciaparra. In another stroke of genius, Betemit was dispatched to the New York Yankees for pedestrian reliever Scott Proctor. It didn’t occur to Colletti why the Yankees would trade Proctor when they desperately needed relief pitching.

Also this winter, he made he took the ridiculous step of signing CF Juan Pierre to a 5 year, $45 million dollar contract. Despite having below average on base skills, zero power, an average stolen base success rate and poor defense, Pierre was expected to be a major cog in an offense that severely lacked power. Colletti was enamored with Pierre’s steals, all the while ignoring that for every stolen base he got, Pierre gave away 3-4 bases with his very poor arm. True to form, Pierre is close to 200 hits, which isn’t impressive when you consider he plays every single game and will end up with well over 700 plate appearances and a miniscule number of walks. Colletti is dazzled by useless numbers like 200 hits (while ignoring Pierre’s weak .333 OBP) and 60 steals, though, and it’s that fascination that should be cause for concern for the Dodger future as he’s shown he is willing to pay top dollar for overrated garbage. He’s the Picasso collector of baseball GMs.

Colletti also signed starting pitchers Jason Schmidt and Randy Wolf, who both went down to major injuries. I felt these were decent moves in the preseason. However, he should have access to better medical records than I or any fan does and should have known better than to throw as much money at these guys as he did. When the contingency plan was Tomko and Hendrickson (who were still around after the brilliant decision to keep Chad Billingsley in the bullpen), it made a bad situation even worse. Left grasping at straws, he made a terrible situation worse again by bringing in washed up retreads David Wells and Esteban Loaiza. Once again, Ned didn’t think to himself, “Well, I wonder why the Padres dropped Wells even though they desperately need a 5th starter?” or “Why would Billy Beane just give away Loaiza when he’s very reasonably priced in a market that overspends ridiculously for starting pitching?” He gave the tired old “experience veteran” qualifier that doesn’t account for talent.

Ah yes…the veterans. Ned is addicted to veterans like Darryl Strawberry was addicted to everything you could do to yourself that was self-destructive. Recently, the situation has blown up in his face, as 2B Jeff Kent started calling out the young players on the team this past week, even though the young players are the ones who got this team anywhere close to contention.

“I don’t know what it is, but especially when you have a lot of them, it’s hard to influence a lot of them,” Kent said. “Don’t get me wrong — we have a lot of good kids. But it’s hard to translate experience. I don’t know why they don’t get it…It’s professionalism. It’s manufacturing runs, keeping your emotions in it. Experience can pull you through more than inexperience, experience helps more than inexperience. It’s hard to give experience, just like that,” Kent said, snapping his fingers.

So the season would have gone better if Nomar got MORE at bats? It would have gone better of Gonzalez’s 40 year-old carcass was out there more? It comes down to talent, not “manufacturing runs” and “being experienced”. How many times did we see LuGo mangle a ball in the OF? How many stupid base-running mistakes did Kent make? What about Sweeney’s huge base-running gaffe? What about Garciaparra competing with Pierre in the slugging department? What about their inability to show any kind of health? And he has the nerve to try and pin it on the young players?

Kent sat there and talked about how it’s “hard to give them experience”. That’s part of his job as a “seasoned veteran”. It’s tough to teach sitting behind a Motorcross magazine. It’s tough to teach when their own performance couldn’t back up the example they think they’re setting. It’s tough to teach when they are hurt on a constant basis. Calling out other players on the team in the press was the best example of all, I suppose.

Colletti’s response to Kent’s tirade spoke volumes: “I know how much Jeff Kent wants to win and hates to lose,” Colletti said. “Everyone’s got a piece of this, including me…The results have put a lot of people on edge. People are bound to speak out. People are bound to be frustrated.”

No Ned, people aren’t bound to speak out. The right veterans who are true professionals understand that this stuff stays in the clubhouse and that every finger of blame pointed brings 4 more back at you. So don’t shrug your shoulders in a Selig-like manner and say, “Well, this is what we should expect”. No, you should expect better, especially when you’re overpaying for declining performance under the guise of getting “leadership” and “experience” in return.

Colletti had a chance to publicly support the youth on this team and failed to do so. This is the most egregious of the season’s shortcomings that fall on his shoulders and shows he does not have the leadership skills necessary to hold a major league GM job.

This mess belongs 100% to Ned Colletti and he deserves to be fired. If he stays on, I don’t want to hear from Frank McCourt again about his commitment to bringing in a winner because it will ring nothing more than hollow.

IT’S 12:40AMin Brooklyn, I was out celebrating, I met a few kids, They were Met fans, I told then I was a Dodger fan. After I told them I was forgetting about the Wild Card, they asked me what I thought of The Met’s chances. I told them theirbullpen better wake up. The Mets have the hitting, but their pen keeps giving the runs back. They asked me what I was doing out so late. I told them I was celebrating 50 years since the Dodgers leftB’klyn& ayoung girl told me she read about it in the newspapers. There’s a lotta **** around that still believe that Christ never rose from the dead. Well the Dodgers did &they are living in Los Angeles. GO DODGERS

You guys are a litty crazy. Braun has FAR superior numbers to Loney overall (defensive woes aside). He’s a monster. And Tulo, Pence, Chris Young, etc. would probably come ahead of him too. But I think Loney is very underrated as a clutch performer. I don’t know how these other guys do in the clutch but I know Loney is great. Ever since the playoffs last year when he had a great game at such a young age I thought wow, this is the guy I want on my team. And then Nomar resigned. Blah. Oh well, when Kershaw starts in the rotation in 09 we’ll have our ROY :) Not to jinx it or anything.

jspelk, are you insane? Braun’s numbers aren’t FAR superior. He beats Loney only in home runs and stolen bases. Everything else, he loses. So unless they rate strictly only on those power numbers, then yes Braun is better. Take a quick look.

====================================

BA are similar – Loney currently with a higher BA

OBP are similar – Loney currently with a higher OBP

SB – Braun has Loney in this category

HR – Braun has Loney as well here, Braun hits a HR in about 7% of his PA, Loney around 4%

Fielding – Loney .988 FPCT verus Braun on .904 (and being at 1b, Loney has a far greater probability of error with the number of fielding chances).

SO per PA = Loney (14%) versus Braun (25%)

BB per PA = Loney (8%) versus Braun (6%)

Loney also leads Braun in all RISP and runner on base situations. The only situational categories in which Braun has a greater average is when no one is on base, otherwise, with RISP, Loney blows away Braun.

RISP = Loney (Avg .430 / OBP .490) vs Braun (.321 / .385)

I could go down the line on the different at bat situations, but Loney beats Braun out on all situations (and sample sizes large enough to make a distinction).

So, really, other the the fascination with the home runs, Loney truly beats out Braun. That’s not to say Braun isn’t a fantastic rookie player, but the numbers Loney has shown up with are so much more. The guy is completely insane when it comes to hitting with RISP and it’s truly a shame that the Dodgers and their management didn’t put him on the team to start the season.

Also, keep in mind, that he was also banished to the #7 spot for a good part of the season, which easily affected his total RBIs. They finally moved him to the #3 hole earlier this month, and he’s truly filled the position.

I really can’t figure out why Kent said what he said. From what I hear he doesn’t speak unless he needs to. Maybe something happened that we don’t know about? Who knows?

As far as him being a leader-nobody has ever called him a leader in the clubhouse. But on the field is a different story. On the field he leads by example. Maybe everybody needs to start acting like him in the clubhouse too. Just keep your mouth shut and do the talking on the field.

the expectations that were clearly defined during his time with the Dodgers under Peter O’Malley’s ownership were not as clearly defined when he and Stoneman joined the corporate Angels.

“I knew there was a nucleus of young players that you could get excited about, so it wasn’t like we were coming into a totally bad situation. It was strictly a matter of getting it together, defining an approach, and that meeting proved to be a real eye-opener. After it, I think, everyone knew what the goals and expectations were.”

Said Richard Brown, a club president under Autry and now counsel to the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power: “Under Arte Moreno, and particularly with Scioscia’s influence, the Angels have been determined to build a team the right way, and that’s through the farm system, adding free agents when needed and never throwing the future away. When you build from within, and they’ve done a terrific job at it, you create a feeling of continuity, communality and tradition in the clubhouse and among your fans.

We were basically trying to win the lottery for the Cowboy, and the result, of course, was that there were mistakes in trades and signings, too many young players given away, too many turnovers over too many years in philosophy and the people responsible for the philosophy.”

As the Angels continue to vie for the best record in the AL he has continually had the right player in the right spot while employing 126 lineups and using the disabled list 19 times for 13 players. The one-game-at-a-time cliché that falls on deaf ears in other clubhouses might as well now be stitched onto the uniform, as big a part of the Scioscia playbook as first to third.

“The philosophy is clear, the message is clear, and we’ve been given the tools with which to play well at the major league level, but nothing matters if we don’t continue to win at that level,” Scioscia said. “It’s all about winning, continuing to move in the right direction. Short of winning, there’s only one other direction.”

When has anyone heard grittle give a quote that made sense?? I hate the halos but I love Sciocia. McCourt why don’t we pay Sciocia Phil Jackson type money instead of upgrading the food stands.

Mr. Kent,
Please lead by example. Habitually last and silent in your demeanor is in no way the type of example you need to be setting. As a USAF Senior NCO, may I suggest that YOUR leadership and actions must ALWAYS be above reproach, regardless of the current owner/manager. Am I trying to make a correlation between being a soldier and a ballplayer? In a way, YES.

You might not like your boss or even your president, but you do the best job you can. Rank might have its privileges but please don’t take advantage of that and set a horrible precedent for the “young troops”. If you come in late and leave early, then they will too. “Talking” of duty, honor and courage and not showing it will only shine like a beacon of falsehood and words of a time long passed. People might not remember the years, but they’ll remember the man.

Look at this way, when Barry hits his first homerun, he will become the all time HR King!! The Giants waited 14 years, we just have to wait a few games, maybe, if we’re lucky, just one game!!! Go Ned!!!

All I can tell you is this: If we could’ve operated the entire season with the lineup we came out of spring training with, I would’ve loved nothing better. There would have been time to work in the kids and get them playing time here and there.”

Translation: the veterans ******.

Is this leading by example(Kent)?

Effort on Play Questioned

10:58 PM PDT on Sunday, June 18, 2006

By KEVIN PEARSON

The Press-Enterprise

OAKLAND – Lost somewhere in the middle of the Dodgers’ 17-inning marathon with the A’s on Saturday night was a veteran showing up a rookie.

In the eighth inning of the game that ended with Jae Seo walking in the winning run, second baseman Jeff Kent, a likely Hall of Famer, was on first base with rookie outfielder Andre Ethier at bat.

Kent tried to steal second. He had a good jump, and it looked as if he would easily be safe. But Ethier swung at the pitch, lofting a lazy fly ball into left field.

Kent watched the ball sail into the air — it was obvious that it would be caught by Nick Swisher — and, instead of retreating to first base, he got to second and took his helmet off as the ball was caught. Swisher threw to first for the double play.

“I thought the ball was going to be caught,” Kent said, appearing annoyed that he was asked about the play. “(Heck), I was almost on second when he hit the ball.”

Kent would not say if he thought Ethier should have taken the pitch — Ethier said it was not a hit-and-run — and said he likely would have been doubled off anyways. But it was the lack of an attempt to get back to first that was noticeable.

Kent was later seen jawing at Ethier in the dugout. When asked if he thought Kent could have made it back, Ethier offered this: “It’s a question you don’t even need to ask,” he said. “It’s at his discretion if he wants to or not.”

Manager Grady Little was perturbed when asked about the play, which was one of several outs the Dodgers gave up. Asked if he thought the play was amplified because Kent is a veteran on a team with plenty of rookies, Little became annoyed.

“He is a human and won’t do anything perfect his whole life, nor will any player we have on this ball club,” Little said.

I became a Dodger fan when JB got drafted. I’ve know the Dodger history my whole life. I can only imagine how you life time Dodger fans are feelings because I’m fn pissed the way things have been done and I’ve only cheered for them for 5 years now.

The LA Times has 2 great columns today about the Dodgers situtation and the Angels.

I must say I cried when I read this from one of the articles:

“I don’t know how the Dodgers could ever have let him go,” said Brown, an oft-repeated theme in Southern California as Grady Little attempts to survive as the fifth Dodgers manager since Tom Lasorda retired in 1996 and third since Scioscia, the onetime Lasorda heir, departed for Anaheim rather than continue as the Dodgers’ triple-A manager and be dictated to and second-guessed by general manager Kevin Malone.

Guys, we are still suffering from that 8-9 years later. Understandably, it’s not McCourt’s fault. This was done under the Fox ownership. Look at what happened to the Angels when Disney bought them (remember the pep band and cheerleaders they had).

What the Angels did was become stable and patient. This is definitely a definitive moment for McCourt. I believe Ned needs to be given a chance (GM stability) and has learned from mistakes in his signings). I don’t think you’ll see a Pierre signing again like that as he will have learned (hopefully), as someone above mentioned, that for every 1 games Pierre wins for you, his arm allows 3-4 losses.

Ned needs to be given a break on the pitcher signings. Can you think of a club that would just like the shot to get 1 of those guys? (Schmidt, Wolf, Loaiza). Most teams don’t have the money to do it and McCourt gave Ned the go-ahead to do it. Injuries are part of this game but when have you seen so many pitchers go down at once? Perhaps next year they can be used as trade bait to get someone we need (then re-signed when the are free agents — Furcal, Lowe, etc)

Grady is another discussion. As noted above, it doesn’t necessarily have to be an ex-Dodger, but you need someone with a passion for the old-school game like Scoscia, Martin, Girardi, Hatcher, Gibson, Kennedy, Roberts, Jeter, LoDuca. Those guys get excited and dirty because they love the game. I just feel guys like Grady, Tracy, Russell weren’t a good fit for the Dodgers since they appear too passive.

That funny Jungar on your last statement “stupid and ignorant” I with you on that.

On that comment obout Bonds coming to LA…Ned, this is for you directly…If you sign that d***** bag, i will cancel my season tickets and will not spend a dime on Dodgers anything! I will also start a boycott of Dodgers. i promise you!

Jagartjim — Logically, Bonds wouldn’t fit into the Dodgers plan. First off, if the focus is on youth, we already have Kemp and Ethier in the OF(we are stuck with Pierre and I’m sure you could insert anyone else there like a Tori Hunter or Andrew Jones or look internally to a Young, etc).

Guys, on the website posted above, they also talk about the Padres and what they did. Take a look at what Towers did? Can you see how hard it is for Ned to get a quality person to replace an injured player? Getting Jason Lane, a .178 hitter and .240 lifetime?

I just read the article: “Dodger Rift is a new old story” by Kevin Baxter & Dylan Hernandez and what I got to say is, I got no suprises and it’s nice to know we got regular people on our team acting just like you would expect them to. If a fight broke out, maybe it would be for the better, remembering the Oakland A’s of the ’70s. Yeah there is a little tension but no more than you would expect from a good club that didn’t make the post season, one year after it did. Kent is Kent and he is just the way eveybody always discribed him. I don’t care who disagrees, this club is better with him right now. Let the kids fight to take his job away next year before that season ends(Let’s pray someone does). All he wants is a ring. If we are futunate enough to have him back maybe the rest of the team will get one too.

It’s not hard for the Dodgers to get a quality player because our farm system is loaded with players that are ready for the big leagues. We didn’t need Wells or Loaiza, however I don’t think Loaiza was a bad pickup, because we have arms in the system. We didn’t need Shea because we have Hu, LaRoach and Abreu. We never should have signed Gonzo because we had Either and Kemp with DY and Repko if he can stay healthy. If Nomar will agree to be a bench player and is used like that then he’ll help us. With Saito, Broxton, Beimel and Proctor in the pen you don’t need much else down there. If we get rid of the dead weight we’re carrying now then we’ll be fine going into next year.

Here’s my take for next season:
Gonzo we know is gone as is Hendrickson, Saenz, Martinez, Hillenbrand and Sweeney. I believe that in light of everything that’s gone on this last week Kent will opt out and also be gone. So who do we have left? As far as starters, Kemp, Loney, Pierre, Furcal, Ethier, Martin. I would imagine that 2nd base will go to Abreu and 3rd, for now, will go to LaRoche.

We are looking at a rotation of Penny, Lowe, Bills, Schmidt and Loaiza. In the event of Schmidt not being ready, I guess that Randy Wolf is still a possibility, albeit at a cheaper price, or maybe we see Hull or they give a shot to Kershaw, who knows. The bullpen will more than likely remain steady, Beimel, Proctor, Broxton and Saito.

If you consider what free agents may be available, we really don’t figure in any major deals, Andruw Jones and Tori Hunter are out of touch because of Pierre, it appears that the ARod sweepstakes will more than likely stay in the East or Chicago, so with the exception of perhaps signing a pitcher or 2, bullpen, or pulling off a major trade, this Dodger team is pretty much set. As for your bench, well Nomar would be the logical guy off the bench, righty, and also backup at any infield position and Jason Repko will be the 4th outfielder. Now, this team and Grady, again, managing, I ask this question, Are we better off than we were in ’07? I say not….

Also, I could care less if Kent gets his beloved ring or not. He doesn’t even rank in my top 50 favorite Dodgers of all time – maybe not even top 100. I want the TEAM to get a WS ring whether he’s on the team or not. I find him hard to root for even before his comments came out.

Cameron — If you read that other article in the LA Times, they talked about the marketing staff of the Angels wanting to market a player rahter than the team, since the team wasn’t going anywhere.

I was listening to an FM radio show that was describing how marketers and TV shows are gearing their “products” towards women (i.e Dancing with the Stars, etc).

If you’ve ever watched the Dodgers on TV or at the Stadium, I’m always amazed at the reaction Nomar gets and can’t understand it….until bring this marketing concept in. The Dodgers (marketing staff) need Nomar to bring in the women because he’s cute.

Am I wrong? Listen to the cheers….high-pitched screamers and swooners….IT’S WOMEN CHEERING HIM! Ask a women why they like Nomar and they’ll say he’s cute. That’s the only reason a woman would go to the game (without being dragged by their husband/boyfriend, etc.)

Kiper — Grady will have to play the kids so we would be better off (albeit if the kids falter, the only silver lining is they learn and, in the words of David Wells in that Time article, “are humbled”.

I still say Kent’s comments were valid based on the fact he did it with intentions. I still believe he was purposely getting under there skins. In hopes of getting them ready for next year. Remember he tried this with Meltdown Bradley and it didn’t work. He picked a fight with Barry and that worked. I personally will still root for Kent and hope he does come back next year.

Kiper I agree and disagree with you on that post. If Kent leaves we’re not a better club. If he stays and Furcal is healthy I think we’re better depending on who starts for us. LaRoach will be the only player not yet already a proven big leaguer. I don’t think Schmidt will pitch all year and I think Loaiza will be gone at the deadline. Depending on who they plug in those 2 slots I think will determine how far we go next year.

We I talk to girls now… They like Martin or Ethier you can market the “cute” campaign for them.LOL

Kiper I love that team we can get a good reliable back up second baseman we’ll be in in great shape. McCourt has to get rid of grittle. I was listening to sportstalk last night they interviewed LaSorda and how he would get in peoples faces with passion. He never had that clubhouse tension on his ball clubs. It sounded to me that the V.P. to Mr. McCourt was pretty upset at grittle, but we’ll see. At the end of the show Joe McDonell said “it sounds like some changes are coming.”

I agree with the “cute” campaign — to tap into my feminine side, Ethier is to the Dodgers what Jeter is to the Yankees. But you first have to be a good ballplayer, which Ethier and Martin are.

My point in the “cute” campaign is that other factors play into making a decision. The biggest factor in re-signing Nomar was the JD Drew flight. Ned pretty much had to sign him and hope for the 20HR season Nomar had since he was losing Drew. That was probably 80-90% of the reason. The other 10-20% included things like the “cute” factor, “fan favorite”, “local boy”, “community leader”, etc.

I just think that although next season’s team has the potential, they had it this season too, the team is still lacking a major power hitter. That is a problem however, that will have to be resolved internally, because of the Pierre contract. The Dodgers have no where to play a power hitting outfielder unless they trade Ethier or Kent, which considering everything that has gone on with Colletti, will not happen. Adam LaRoche does not give me a whole lot of confidence, yet, because of his back. Do the Dodgers swing a major trade? Do they go after ARod? All of this is intriguing, but I really believe that we pretty much have next seasons team in house, which isn’t a bad thing, but it would be better with good manager.

I don’t know about cuteness, because I’m not that kind of person, but I do think we have some look alikes. Either, too me, looks some what like Ron Darling, and if he can only play like him, LaRoche resembles David Wright and Loney, Tony Clark.

californiaauto — This appears to be an uninformed suggestion. Either ARod will stay with the Yankees or go free agent. Either way he’s not going to be available in a trade. But for the sake of discussion, that trade would be a no-brainer “Yes”.

Kiper — I believe we do have a power hitter in Kemp and possibly Loney. I wouldn’t trade Ethier since a longtime Dodger scout (can’t remember his name but they did a piece on him in the paper. Really old and doesn’t use modern tolls like computers or radar guns). Anyways, he said he was surprised the A’s let him go for Bradley since he said Ethier had a sweet swing and was a future star.

If Kent doesn’t exercise his option — and I’m pretty sure he will — we must go hard after an elite free agent. There are three potential elite free agents out there this Winter — ARod, Torii Hunter, Andruw Jones.

As it happens two of these are Centerfielders. Unless we get ARod — which I am personally opposed to largely for semi-superstitious reasons — we MUST then go after Hunter or Jones. I know Pierre is there, but we can trade him if we are willing to eat $1-2 million per year of his contract.

Without either Kent or an elite free agent, our lineup will be good but not elite.

Jungar — Do you think as the kids mature (1-2 years), we’ll have to trade Pierre and eat some of that contract to get a legit OF? I think so. maybe not even wait that long if the kids explode next year and we find the defense in CF is the cause.

No JB wouldn’t have said anything. JB doesn’t show emotion towards other players. He’s quiet and pretty much keeps his comments to himself. He just goes out and pitches. That’s about all you get from him.

That’s the reason I don’t understand why Kent would say the stuff he said because him and JB are pretty close and Kent likes the young guys. I really believe something happened behind closed doors that we don’t know about. I hope that what happened was that Either and Kemp told Gonzo he ****** and if he wasn’t a big baby they could be in the playoffs right now. And I hope Loney told Nomar that he’d never be the first baseman that he is. Even though you don’t hear much out of Nomar. He just plays where they put him. At least he tries.

but i think jones or hunter would be a possiblity, with a trade of pierre. but i would want jones more than hunter…cuz hunter wants a 5-6 year deal. the twins already afford him a 3 year 45 million deal and he turned it down.

Guys, I know we are talking THIS year’s free agent market, but who is going into their last year NEXT year and who are NEXT year’s free agent crop? I thought I saw a website that had all this info.

Let’s go into next year with what we have now (with or without Kent since he appears to be the ony one with an option and one we are discussing here and with Nomar as either a bench or everyday player at 3B) and see what is out there for next year. Both Nomar and Kent will be gone so I’d like to wait and see what is out there next year that might make the team better longer rather than just stick with choosing between Jones or Hunter THIS year.

I want the Rockies to make it to the playoffs. I live in Denver, they are a likeable underdog-type team, and I REALLY hate the Pads and don’t want them to be in the playoffs again. However, for the Rox to have a realistic chance, they have to beat up on the Dodgers. Never in my life have I rooted for the Dodgers to lose. Am I a bad fan if I watch the next 3 games with indifference, not rooting for either team?

The Twins will consider trading him this winter and possibly again next July. The Mets, Angels, Mariners, Yankees, Cubs, Tigers, White Sox and DODGERS will be among teams that express interest. The Twins are also expected to offer him a five-year contract extension offer this winter. Santana is believe to be seeking six to seven years, possibly at $18-20M annually.

Aaron Rowand would be nice, but again, you’d have to part with about $2-3+ million to get Pierre out of there. That’s your “starting point”.

Rowand’s making $4 million now, so if you offer him $7-8 million, you are really paying about $10-11 million for a CF (adding Pierre’s $$). Might be worth it considering Drew and Green were making $11 million.

The Pirates are willing to trade him for a young power hitter. They have had discussions with the Braves about Salty and with the Dodgers about Matt Kemp. Both are unavailable, though the Dodgers would move Andre Ethier and the Braves, Yunel Escobar.

i would totally trade ethier for snell…and give D young a chance in left

Forget about it you guys. Pierre, Ned and Grady are all coming back next year. No matter how much it kills us. McCourt is more focused on making concession lines shorter and better parking then he is putting a winning team on the field.

ya but you cant win without pitching, has we have seen this year with tomko and hendrickson. i would trade penny and lowe for some power hitters. and trade snell for ethier. and maybe glaus at third next year?

Grady will likely not be back after next year if we don’t make the playoffs. Ned and McCourt must know the fans are already fed up with him. I don’t really see us getting rid of Pierre any time soon, I think we’re stuck with him and his throwing arm…

Joey — You’re all over the place with those scenarios. Look at the Phillies. Score LOTS of runs, but no pitching. That’s basically what we’d do trading away pitching. The Padres have some good SP and no offense and they are still there.

I’d much rather have pitching than trade for power hitting. Power hitting is fleeting. At least with pitching, IMO, you have a better shot of getting out of innings, etc. than having a power hitter flame out for long stretches. Unless you’re named Tomko, Seanez or Hernandez, you won’t have LONG stretches where you suc(k) as a pitcher.

Yeah I would trade Ethier for Snell in a heartbeat. A .280 hitting 15hr outfielder with no speed and just above avg defense is pretty easy to find.

—

baseball-injury.com

“Jason Schmidt (RHP, LA)

Schmidt was able to post 200-plus innings in three of the last four seasons, and the Dodgers were confident he would provide them more of the same in 2007. Schmidt struggled with his velocity almost from the beginning of spring training, and did not pitch effectively in Florida. He landed on the DL in the middle of April with inflammation in his pitching shoulder. He worked his way back to the Dodgers in early June but never regained the velocity on his fastball. Exploratory surgery in late June revealed damage to the bursa sac, a frayed biceps tendon and a torn labrum. This extensive surgery should keep him on the DL at the beginning of next season, and he may not be productive until after the All-Star break, if at all, in 2008.

All I want to know is when will they acquire someone who can take them to the next level? I would like to see a Johan, Hunter, Rowand, Cabrera, Ramirez or an A-Rod in a Dodger uniform. Probabilities of acquiring either one of them? NONE. I’m tired of the Dodgers waiting for their younger so called “super stars” to come around and produce with the exception of a few. But lets get realistic they need they need an elite player who can lead them, be a team leader. But just remember the Dodgers front office can not pull the trigger and make trades. I would love to see the Dodgers acquire a third baseman and a second baseman in the off-season along with some good pitching, not old and semi-retired pitching.

Swood***I don’t think we are STUCK with Pierre, the team just has to build around his weak throwing arm and lack of power. His speed is an asset and if eliments around him, aid him, he will be a total possitive force. Don’t forget he’s a good hitter.

Pierreseastmeetswest — Building around Pierre means getting pitchers who are flyball pitchers. Speed is an asset but for every 1 game he wins for us seems to be offset by 3-4 losses due to his arm and defense.

Case in point: The AZ player who hit a single to CF and turned it into a double after Pierre lackadasically getting it in to 2B. Double to to poor arm, defense and lack of purpose to get the ball in as quickly as possible.

David Wells could probably get a double on his arm. But I’m going to talk bad about Pierre because he can’t help he wasn’t blessed with Francouers arm or the fact that he took a 5 year 45 million dollar contract. I’d take it.

Pierreseast meets west — I’ve seen that. In AZ, Pierre got the balls near the track and the cutoff guy was in shallow CF (or whereever) to get the ball in. Guess that means the SS or 2B will need to cover 2B whenever Pierre appears to get the ball. Is that really something they can work on? Not sure with them being close to last in fielding %. Seems like they are making at least 1 error every game.

sorry pierresweet. I too respect the speed he has but in both your post just now you are saying that IF others do this or if others do that Pierre is fine. Well not what you want out of a 50 million dollar contract.

We were a better team in 07 if Kemp or Ethier was our CF even with their limititations.

Pierreseastmeetswest — My comment about the errors was alluding to the mental lapses that are bound to happen if you start having to compensate for Pierre’s weak arm. Would the IF be doing something they are not used to doing or have been taught to do? You’d really have to work on this and then make split-second decisions about what to do when presented with that scenario? For example, WHEN and WHO would go out to be the cutoff man rather than protect 2B if the ball is hit to straight away center field and deep and trying to avoid the guy on 2B from advancing to 3B?

This is a good team the way it’s set up, dispite that problem. The biggest problem right now is the offense. And that can be corrected by our hitters being more selective and have more confidence and not being too anxious. They should be reminded that a walk is as good as a hit. I agree I would rather have Kemp in CF, but now we have to live with Colletti.

oh i agree orth which is why i didnt show his mid 30 rbi total. I showed runs because u would think that if someone bats in the top of the order hits 290 and steals 60 he has to score alot of runs, almost by default right? I realize our middle of the order was not THAT great, but still..

Cool Pierre. I am with you there is almost a relistic view and a perfect world view..Sometimes the lines are blurred. I really think the best thing would simply be to move Pierre to LF and sign Jones or Hunter. Defense is so important and both at worst case will provide great defense and 20hr and 80rbi. I mean even this year while hitting 213 with a terrible 311 OBP Jones still has 26 bombs and 93 rbi.

Some info:
Guess who’s pitching for the Pads tonight when they desperately need a win??..Bomko…let’s see if it gets it done in SF against Cain….Let’s hope not…If we can’t get into the playoffs, I would like to see the Rockies or the Phils..love the way both of those teams have really battled…oh, and by the way, they have the kind of hitters the Dodgers can only dream about!!!

Afterall both options were available and both options were not given a chance at CF this year. Pierre has played like every second.

But none of those guys (Kemp included) are defensively close to Jones/Hunter nor will they ever be. Kemp i agree is really a RF and Ethier is a LF. But for 50 million less in 07 (while being close in performance, even if 20% less than Pierre performance) and more importantly the flexibilty to go after a prime CF in 08 is why I thought Pierre was a bad signing last March.

Guys — I only got a few responses to what if available next year. i don’t want to be in the same boat NEXT year saying, “Why did Hunter / Jones flame out?” Now we are stuck with 2 OF who have to play while Kemp/Ethier/Young are left to platoon (if they haven’t been traded).”

If the kids did what they’ve been doing the last month (of course, they will have periods of *********, but hopefully not as long as Betemit’s), we’ll be OK.

Piereeseastmeetswest — In those situations (RISP), that’s where the kids will learn. That’s also where coaching is needed.

Speaking of coaching, I’ve always been baffled by some of the hitting coaches of the Dodgers. I’m not nearly as qualified, but I distinctly remember Beltre always striking out on pitches down and away. He could NEVER lay off those and did it for months on end. Guess what pitchers did……threw him down and away with 2 stikes on him.

I agree with the stats you have there but they didn’t have to be that way.

Your only going to get 40 to maybe 55 homers out of your outfield because of Pierre. That’s if Kemp and Either play at least 145-162 games.

Had Loney,Kent and Kemp hit 3-4-5 all year it would have been enough to cut it.

Loney would have helped some on the defensive side as well.

The starting pitchers are another story. Had Bills started from day 1 he might have 17-20 wins. Lowe ran into some tough luck early from not enough run support,mainly because of the line-up being screwed with every day, and he ran into some tough luck when he got hurt.

But to sum it up in simplier terms… the young guys should have played and Tomko and Hendrickson shouldn’t have made 30 starts.

BTW—Kent’s comments about manufacturing runs (not to drudge this up again, but…) um… so how was Nomar swinging at the first pitch 90% of the time and popping it up manufacturing runs, exactly? Isn’t he supposed to know that, after all the experience he has?

There is not a great free agent mkt this year…so don’t expect great things out of the Nedster…the only way we get anything I think is with a trade…don’t ask me who, but that’s what I think..
The only kind of veteran we ever needed was one in his PRIME…instead of one at the END of his career…that’s where Ned went wrong…Just think if we could have gotten ( not possible) Aramis Ramirez, or someone like that in his prime…then we would have had a chance..not the old vets at the end of their careers….I think this is Ned’s SF mentality coming out…Let’s hope he gets over it for next year!

When Angels manager Mike Scioscia says his team lives to put pressure on the opposition, that means no one is immune and no time is the wrong time. The Angels were trailing Texas 4-0 in the fifth inning when Juan Rivera went first to third on a successful hit and run by Maicer Izturis. That’s the same Juan Rivera who just returned from a broken leg three weeks ago.

Well I’m getting better at the Live Chat. Last time I finally undrstood how to to it, but I believed that my question was submited to late. Now I got on right away but he didn’t answer my question. MAYBE NEXT YEAR.

So I dont want the Madres to win the wild card. I also want revenge on the Rockies for the humiliation we suffered last week. I think we need to play the Rockies hard and win some games. Meanwhile lets hope the Madres continue losing.
I’m all for the wild card going to Philly and not the western division. If it cant be us…

I would love the Phillies to win the wild card…they lost by 1 game last year…they play hard and have a great offense, if they can get over their pitching….I would rather see the Rockies than the Pads…but not on our expense..love to see us sweep them starting tonight…Let’s see if Brad can regain some form that he hasn’t had since the break.!

Stranger things have happened, I think they will let Grady go.
I also think that Ned and the the Dodgers organization see Kent as a greater asset than Grady next year. I am sure Kent does not want to play for Grady another year. I will even go as far as to say that Kent will or has threatened to opt out next year if Grady is at the helm.

Not that Kent would actually be a great loss. Nevertheless, as soon as the season ends, many influential people will be calling for a change at the helm.

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