Friday, December 4, 2009

Is Abortion A God Given Right?

This is a video I made for my Bioethics class....I would like some input on this video....

Apparently, they held an anti-Stupak rally yesterday in D.C. in an effort to sway the Senate’s deliberations on Obamacare. You may not have heard about it because no almost no one came. In any event, at this rally, some sad excuse for an alleged Christian minister made the following statement:

“Don’t let anybody tell you that religious people don’t support choice,” [Carlton] Veazy said, according to CNS News. “You not only have a constitutional right for abortion, but you have a God-given right.”

First of all, haven’t we been told for years that when ministers suggest that God is opposed to abortion, this is evidence of a dangerous creeping theocracy? I haven’t heard any of these same logically challenged moral midgets make a peep about this kind of rhetoric on the pro-abortion side.
Second, where, exactly, does this guy get his information that there’s a “God-given” right to an abortion? It certainly isn’t in the Bible. It isn’t in any recognized religious tradition I’ve ever heard of (and I am at least relatively well-versed on this subject). Apparently, this “minister” Veazy feels that he has the plenary power to declare what God-given rights are, based on whatever he feels politically at the moment. In this case, he has declared, based on his (self-professed) ultimate authority to speak on behalf of God Almighty, that God has given women an inherent right to kill children growing in their wombs.
Memo to Carlton Veazy: the Christianity you profess to believe in already has an authoritative text, and it contains passages like James 3:1 that you might want to revisit in your spare time. Of course, you don’t have to believe in Christanity, God, or the Bible, but if you accept the basic premise of your stated faith (that being ultimate accountability to God on Judgment Day), you might want to be a little more careful of presuming to make false moral pronouncements on His behalf.

31 comments:

Apparently, they held an anti-Stupak rally yesterday in D.C. in an effort to sway the Senate’s deliberations on Obamacare. You may not have heard about it because no almost no one came. In any event, at this rally, some sad excuse for an alleged Christian minister made the following statement:

“Don’t let anybody tell you that religious people don’t support choice,” [Carlton] Veazy said, according to CNS News. “You not only have a constitutional right for abortion, but you have a God-given right.”

First of all, haven’t we been told for years that when ministers suggest that God is opposed to abortion, this is evidence of a dangerous creeping theocracy? I haven’t heard any of these same logically challenged moral midgets make a peep about this kind of rhetoric on the pro-abortion side.

Second, where, exactly, does this guy get his information that there’s a “God-given” right to an abortion? It certainly isn’t in the Bible. It isn’t in any recognized religious tradition I’ve ever heard of (and I am at least relatively well-versed on this subject). Apparently, this “minister” Veazy feels that he has the plenary power to declare what God-given rights are, based on whatever he feels politically at the moment. In this case, he has declared, based on his (self-professed) ultimate authority to speak on behalf of God Almighty, that God has given women an inherent right to kill children growing in their wombs.

Memo to Carlton Veazy: the Christianity you profess to believe in already has an authoritative text, and it contains passages like James 3:1 that you might want to revisit in your spare time. Of course, you don’t have to believe in Christanity, God, or the Bible, but if you accept the basic premise of your stated faith (that being ultimate accountability to God on Judgment Day), you might want to be a little more careful of presuming to make false moral pronouncements on His behalf.

By Sunsara TaylorIn March of this year, Dr. George Tiller, one of the most courageous abortion doctors in the country, was assassinated. In the weeks that followed, violence and threats against women's clinics and the doctors continued at heightened levels.

Two weeks ago, the U.S. Senate approved a version of healthcare reform that includes an amendment, Stupak-Pitts, that would deprive women of the ability to purchase health-care that covers abortion if they receive any form of government stipend or tax break.Millions of women would lose the abortion coverage they currently have, complicated abortions needed for the health or life of the woman will become cripplingly expensive, and the overall juggernaut to remove all reproductive rights from women will lumber menacingly forward. In the words of Representative Diana DeGette, Democrat of Colorado, “If enacted, this amendment will be the greatest restriction of a woman’s right to choose to pass in our careers.”

Taken together, these events represent an escalation in the legal and extra-legal assaults on women's right to abortion that go beyond anything done under eight years of the Bush Regime. As part of a trajectory of restricted access, shrinking numbers of providers, growing cultural stigma, we are teetering towards a tipping point away from one of the most vital rights of women. Without the right to decide for themselves, without coercion, shame or danger, when and whether they will have children, women are not free. When half of humanity is oppressed, all of society suffers.

Yet, precisely at this decisive moment when an outpouring of rage and defiance against all this is most needed, the silence and capitulation of the pro-choice “movement” is as stunning as it is deafening. There are no nation-wide protests gathering steam. There are no throngs of students descending on DC. There are no rowdy bands of 60's women holding up coat-hangers and screaming, “We will not go back!” There are no groups of men refusing to be silent as the rights of women are stripped away.

The rest of the article is athttp://www.worldcantwait.net/index.php/home-mainmenu-289/6019-abortion-on-the-line-a-time-for-rage-not-for-lobbying

Bruce did you watch any of the abortion videos I've posted? It is murder not a womens right to murder. That is just crazy talk. Would a Saimese twin have the right to kill his other half? Is suicide legal? This isn't about a womens right to her body or suicide would be legal. This is about killing babies,watch the video and tell me it's not killing a baby. Just look you make a man a hero just because he is a baby killer. I put Tiller in the same possition as the person that killed him. You on the left aren't against the killing of the babies or our soldiers. You are about saving money at any means necessary. That is why abortion clinics are in poor minority districs not the burbs. And in most of the blogs I've read 90% of them talk about money being the factor against war and as a footnote they mention the lives of the soldiers. Watch the video Bruce and all you pro abortion idealogue. They are afraid of the truth and that is why they wont watch the videos. I've never seen any yet that has watched an abortion video and still said it was no big deal. Only pure evil would view an abortion as not being murder after watching the video. So Bruce and his liberals friends never watch the video because they can't handle the truth. In what world would anyone have the right to kill a baby inside any creature let alone a human mother. You on the left don't even value children in our society and that is a big problem. Your NAMBLA left wing look at babies as offerings not as the future of our great nation.

Bruce did you know that because of videos like this one there are more people against abortion now then ever? You wanted democracy but only when it is in your favor. Most Americans think abortion is murder so watch the video so you can see what an abortion truly is and what a baby goes through when it is getting murdered. And did you know that Congressman Obama voted to have the babies of botched abortions killed outside of the womb? Liberals are murderers if they are pro abortion.

Chris, I agree with your stance on abortion and the "morally challenged".

But as a Christian I must remind you that although not a 'right',God gave man 'free will',so again it is mankind choosing to commit evil here.------------Bruce, Hunting is a legal 'procedure' yet some want it banned. War, when declared is a legal 'procedure',yet you demonstrate against it. Voting is a legal 'procedure' yet you wish to subveert it and on and on and on.

Just because God gave us free will doesn't meen that he didn't give us the Ten Commandments. God gave us free will and yet the law says suicide is illegal. That is why we must change the law so it reflex most Americans beliefs. Bruce you on the left call the Iraq war illegal even though it is not so don't play those stupid word games.

Bruce, this is off topic but responding to your defense of the porkulus. You lie, you lie, you lie. Here is an interactive map showing the fake jobs "created or saved" by this boondoggle porkulus bill:

Removing reproductive rights?!?! That would be abortion, the right to kill a baby and NOT reproduce? You liberals like to dress your murder up, don't you?

Women like your daughters have every right to get themselves knocked up or not knocked up as much as they like, by whomever they like Brucie, that is where their rights lie. But once there is another life, those babies have rights too Bruce. You don't care about the rights of unborn children. You can't even tell me the point at which a baby becomes a baby and stops being a ... I believe you called it a blastocyte? You sick bastard.

Bruce, why is it fine for a woman who wants to keep a baby to call it murder if someone were to cause the death of the baby in her womb, when a woman that is the SAME amount of time along who aborts is merely exercising her rights?

You liberals are the biggest bunch of hypocrites I have ever seen. Not that this is news to anyone.

Bruce did you watch the video? I know the last few times this subject came up you refused to watch the video fopr fear of changing your mind. And Bruce what Obama wanted to make legal is the murder of a child outside the mothers womb if the abortion didn't kill the baby. Maybe you should take a look at Houldrens the Science Czars thoughts on abortion. You on the left are so out of wack it amazes me. We know that the baby feels pain and comfort in the womb but you on the left don't care as long as babies die you are fine with it. I remind you of the lefts stand on having sex with children and in particular the Safe Schools Czars thoughts on that. They think if the kid can be talked int sex with an adult then good for both parties. Just as long as it is safe sex who cares. These are the beliefs of the left and in particular within Obamas admin. Mind you I used to believe in the free will pro choice theory until I saw what I was standing for. I wouldn't let someone do that to an animal let alone a human. But you on the left care more about animal rights then human baby rights. You care about the mothers right because she votes but not the rights of the child getting ground up like hamberger and feeling everything. We stopped the killing of harp seals and animal testing because it is cruel. But ripping a babies limbs off one at a time is a mothers right. Yeh we have free will but we have consequences for doing wrong. We have free will to kill but we go to jail for it.

Tiller the baby Killer was courageous????That is the most outlandish comment I have heard in some time!!!That is sick, but is what I come to expect from the insane liberal camp.I swear you guys sound more and more like the nazis year after year!!!

Oh and by the way I remember just recently on one of Chris's posts a certain someone made the claim that there has been a 400% increase in threats made against the president.You really should know better than to use the lame stream media for your source!!!!

CNN's Sanchez Retracts His Claim of a 400 Percent Increase in Presidential Death Threats

A CNN source with very close to the U.S. Secret Service confirmed to me today that threats on the life of the president of the United States have now risen by as much as 400 percent since his inauguration, 400 percent death threats against Barack Obama -- quote -- "in this environment" go far beyond anything the Secret Service has seen with any other president.

This "confirmed" information, of course, was eagerly picked up by sites like Daily Kos and Racism Review

You get conservatives and Republicans mixed up all the time Bruce. Are you that dense? If Democrat are so against war then why don't they stop it? If Democrats are so for health care reform then why didn't they pass it a long time ago? Like 3 years ago when they took over both houses of Congress. There are proabortion Republican just like there are pro life Democrats you sausage.

"What have you done for me lately?" It's a question that voters implicitly ask politicians, especially ones they have supported and who are seeking their votes again. And it's a question that young voters in particular may be asking Barack Obama, whom they supported by a 66 percent to 32 percent margin 13 months ago.

It's a question that is obviously on the minds of some thoughtful Democrats. They've noticed that unemployment among the young is well above the national average -- it reached 27.6 percent among those ages 16 to 19 in October.They've noticed that an increasing number of young people -- about half of those between ages 18 and 24 -- are still living in their parents' homes. They've noticed that entry-level work is scarce, as older workers cling to their jobs.

So they're urging the Obama administration and the Democratic Congress to do something to help young people. But they seem to be having a hard time coming up with solutions that match the scope of the problem....

The uncomfortable reality is that creating many millions of useful, interesting, psychically rewarding new jobs is something only the private sector can do. And it does it, as we saw during the prosperous quarter-century from 1983 to 2007, in ways that government planners are unable to predict.

In the meantime, the big-government policies of the Obama administration and the Democratic Congress have worked to stifle private-sector job creation. A large share of the $787 billion stimulus package has gone to keep current state and local public sector employees on the payroll (and paying union dues). That does nothing for young people seeking work.

In addition, the Democrats' health care bills would raise the cost of health insurance for young Americans, who would in effect be subsidizing their elders. And the staggering federal deficits that, according to the Congressional Budget Office, loom as far as the eye can see will mean more national debt that young Americans will have to pay off.Barack Obama in his autobiographies records how he spurned private-sector work and opted instead for community organizing and political office. Public-sector careers can provide good incomes and the satisfaction of doing useful work -- but only for a comparative few. A vibrant and competent public sector depends on a vibrant and competent, and much larger, private sector.

Encouraging the growth of the private sector did not seem to be a problem when Obama began his campaign in February 2007, when unemployment was at 4.5 percent. It is certainly a problem now, with unemployment at 10.2 percent. Thoughtful Democrats can see that their party has not done much lately for the young voters, who provided 80 percent of their victory margin in 2008. But they're having trouble figuring out what to do.

Chris, you forget that the Democrats barely had the House and Senate the last two years of the Bush regime. Anything controversial that they wanted to pass would have been vetoed by President Bush.

It seems like the only way anything gets done in this country is when one party or the other has the House, Senate and Presidency.

Unfortunately President Obama seems to have a penchant for bipartisanship, which I disagree with vehemently. Democrats have a pretty wide spectrum from liberal to very conservative and that is hurting us at the moment. I'd like to see more Democrats on the liberal side of the spectrum.

BWAAAAAHAHAHAHA... look at Bruce buying it hook line and sinker that Obama is bi-partisan. What in the HELL gives you that idea Bruce? Obama gave you the "open door policy" to any good ideas and you believe that he actually followed through? Many many many conservatives have tried that policy, only to be met with a shut door. Quit trying to blame the significant and hilarious failings of your party on the Republicans Bruce. Nobody is buying it.

And Republicans may be useless in solving America's problems, but Democrats are great at creating and then exacerbating them. I think it's quite safe to say that were it not for Democrats (Medicare, Social Security, WWII, 'Nam, etc. etc.) we wouldn't have 3/4 the problems we have now. Conservatives are who we should look to to solve our problems. Less government, more freedom. The two ideas are not mutually exclusive.

Bruce do you think Obama made conservatives happy with his stance on the Afghan war? Obama goes to the right on the war and give a pullout to the left and you on the left are crying like a bunch of babies. I forgot how bad you on the left get when you don't get your way every time. One little thing he does to the right and you libs are up in arms. We on the right agree with you on the left that Obama and Congress aren't in it to win it. Look at the reaction of Mathews calling those Americans the enemy. That guy is the epitome of the left wing nutjobs out there. And Bruce is upset with a guy because he screamed "impeach obama" at an anti war rally. Come on what a fake rally those were. We remember what you on the left were like when it was Bush's wars. Thank God you libs aren't like that anymore. It looks like you on the left learned another thing from the conservative tea party protests. But I did see some pictures that were out of hand but the numbers are way down from last year when it was Bush. You don't think that they are more afraid of retrabution from Obama's govt then Bush's? They were all over the Patroit Act when it was Bush and Congress that pushed thatg one through. And now Obama expanded that program. Maybe the left is afraid of the tyrany they helped make.

Spinsterpov, you are right that is a great post of yours. I did one last month and I feel it is good to revisit some issues. I think the to kill a child when used is degading to women. And most of the women that killed their own babies get hit with that very fact. What a burden to carry all your life. Thank God all of them are forgiven. But many of those women never recieve the gift of forgivness because they didn't want it. But the babies in the wob have a God given right to life just like you and I do. And a man or a woman have a right to murder their own child in the womb or out of it.

Lets not forget that it was a pro abortion person that killed that anti-abortion activist. Sick is sick and murder is murder. Thank you Mama for you thoughts on this. I'm so glade to see so many women getting involved and not being afraid to speak their mind.

I love the argument that it's legal so that makes it right. What is legal and what is right are not always the same thing. Especially over the last years we've tended to legalize what is wrong and make what is right illegal in the libs ever growing movement to protect the guilty and punish the innocent.

It's not legislating religion. It is legislating God's truth to unbelievers, and we are called to preach God's truth until our dying day.

On my Facebook page this week I posted a multi-part quote from Mother Theresa (also found on my blog, and I'll copy it below) that incited quite the fury with each part I posted. Mostly from "liberal Christians" who don't want to "legislate their religion."

Here's the quote:

"But I feel that the greatest destroyer of peace today is abortion, because it is a war against the child - a direct killing of the innocent child - murder by the mother herself. And if we accept that a mother can kill even her own child, how can we tell other people not to kill one another?

How do we persuade a woman not to have an abortion? As always, we must persuade her with love, and we remind ourselves that love means to be willing to give until it hurts. Jesus gave even his life to love us. So the mother who is thinking of abortion, should be helped to love - that is, to give until it hurts her plans, or her free time, to respect the life of her child. The father of that child, whoever he is, must also give until it hurts.

By abortion, the mother does not learn to love, but kills even her own child to solve her problems. And by abortion, the father is told that he does not have to take any responsibility at all for the child he has brought into the world. That father is likely to put other women into the same trouble. So abortion just leads to more abortion.

Any country that accepts abortion is not teaching the people to love, but to use any violence to get what they want. That is why the greatest destroyer of love and peace is abortion."

Abortion has been around, even in the form of herbs used as abortifacents, since before the time of Christ. Knowing that...who can argue with that last paragraph?

Where ya been? Haven't seen any comments from you for a while. And you never did answer my suggestion that you start a blog of your own... any thoughts about doing that? Let us know if and when you do.

That Mother Theresa was a wise woman that know a lot of pain. Thank you so much for sharing it. Things like that make a difference. We make a difference. I used to believe what Bruce believes about abortion. Until I educated myself on the truth of abortion and it's harmful effect on all of mankind. I know this is a sinful world but can we try to clean it up the right way first? The left are against "Family values" and attack anyone with those values. I know this must have some effect on some liberals out there. JoeC thank you for that shout out against abortion. It's good to have you on the same side of an issue. The last time I blogged about abortion a girl from Japan named Yumi said it changed her perspective on abortions.

Pray. We can do nothing apart from God. So lay this before the Lord every chance you have, and ask your friends and prayer chains to do the same thing.

Study and learn about these issues. We see the Manhattan Declaration as a great teaching and reference source. Share it with others. Only after you have tried to teach it to someone else will you have really learned it. And go deeper in your own study. There are many organizations that offer excellent resources in support of these foundational truths. If you can't find resources, the Worldview Resource Directory we've assembled might be helpful.

Come back to www.manhattandeclaration.org if you want help in answering questions others pose to you. We've posted a FAQ (frequently asked questions) tab on the home page, but most people signed the statement before this was added. So revisit www.manhattandeclaration.org - and watch for other resources we will be posting.

Invite all of the friends on your e-mail lists to go to www.manhattandeclaration.org, read the Declaration (that's most important) and sign it.

Talk to your pastor or small group leader in church. We have heard from a number of pastors who are already referring to this document in their sermons and using it in their teaching. We've also heard from bishops and other church leaders who are planning ecumenical gatherings in their areas of responsibility. Some are talking about campaigns to equip the faithful. Other pastors are asking their congregations to sign the document, and become informed. Go to your pastor; urge him to do this. You can really help in this area. Suggest it, and then volunteer to be a part of it. Step forward as a leader.

If you belong to a civic group like Kiwanis or Rotary, and you have regular meetings, that's a great forum in which to share information about the Manhattan Declaration. Explain to people what you've signed and why you've signed it. A lot of people are asking about this statement, its meaning and purpose. Educate them.

Letters to the Editor can be a very effective way to spread information about important issues. According to some sources, more people read the Letters to the Editor columns than the editorials.

Watch the issues being debated in the public arena, particularly as the health reform bill is moving through Congress. As a citizen you have a duty to let your representatives know what you think about the issues, particularly on profoundly important moral questions like those being raised now.

Get on Facebook or any other chat rooms or blogs that you have access to. Social networking, as we are learning, can have a powerful impact.

Finally, talk to your neighbors. Robert Naisbitt wrote that fads begin from the top down, movements from the bottom up. We are convinced that societies are changed over the backyard fence, standing around the barbeque grill, and sitting in the barber shop or hair salon. Learn to be an advocate in any environment. In conclusion, in asking you to sign we were not just asking you to raise your hand, but to raise your voice. Great changes in society have often come about when Christian people unite in this way - think of the Wesley awakening, the Celtic revival, or movements for social justice and civil rights in our own country. We believe God is looking for good men and women who will pledge (as you have done in signing the Manhattan Declaration), never to compromise the gospel, and to become well-informed, effective advocates true and godly principles.

This is a message of hope for every area of human life and endeavor, and a call to discipleship for every believer.

About Me

I like to Hunt,Fish,Play with my two boys,Garden,Bonsai and Learn.I used to live in Japan and miss it.I have two young boys 12 and 8 yrs. old. I've been married for over 15years. I have a greenhouse and an organic garden. We have 2 cats,one puggle and fish.