The first problem with Vista was that people who didn't meet the hardware requirements went for the upgrade and then complained that their system had become too slow, or unusable. If people had bothered to look at the hardware requirements there wouldn't have been that many people upset with it.

Secondly, when you first installed Vista (upgrading from an old Windows) it would index all your files. The indexing took up a lot of resources for the first day that you ran Vista but after that it cleared up.

The first service pack also sorted out a lot of issues and made many features more stable. I think I had fewer blue screens in Vista than in XP.

Vista is as solid as Windows 7. Windows 7 is just Vista Service Pack 2. Windows 8 suffers from shoddy hardware. All the non touch DRECK that HP and Dell are shoveling out the door are ruining sales. People see one touch enabled Win8 machine and then want ALL Win8 machines to be touch. Then they walk up to a $350 HP dreck machine and get turned off. Touch needs to be pushed down into lower price points and screen resolutions also need to be pushed up. The premium paid for a simple 1080p touch display is horrendous.

Shouldn't need a 3rd party app to do what your users want. That is the problem with win8, during all of the beta's, consumers kept telling Microsoft what they wanted and MS ignored them - which is quickly becoming Microsoft's MO in all aspects of their business. The ONLY reason to go to Win8 is Touch. If you don't have a touch enabled device, it is a pain in the a$$, so why upgrade if your Win7 works like you want and the new OS DOES NOT work like you want. Most Windows users have learned to AVOID third party plug-ins like start8 because of malware or other drawbacks such as memory leaks or CPU cycles. As a result, the normal Windows veteran does NOT see that as a viable option to do what they are already doing.

I completely disagree with this. Ms did a lot of research through their voluntary usage monitoring and found that people weren't using the start menu. Lets be honest, beyond shutting down, how many of us actually used the start menu to start a program? We usually pin it to the top of the menu, the task bar, or desktop. Who had time to find the correct folder?
Also, I had both betas of w8 and did not have any problems not having a touch screen. There is significant increases in performance for the os. It boots faster. Shuts down faster. Programs load and run faster. And in some cases ApS are quicker than loading a program. Is it perfect? No, but nothing is.

XP was out for 6 years before Vista came out, and XP wasn't always completely stable, and had slowdown issues over time. People were waiting around for the next version, near the end.

7 has only been out for 3 years, and is rock-solid.

I think this (bolded part) is the biggest reason. Most people aren't going to shell out $500+ for a new computer when their current computer works just fine. And Windows 7 works very well compared to Windows XP (which worked a lot better than Windows 98, but I digress). Many people (myself included) went straight from XP to 7 and are quite happy with their Windows 7 computer's performance. (Of course, that didn't stop me from getting a Windows 8 touchscreen laptop. )

I think this (bolded part) is the biggest reason. Most people aren't going to shell out $500+ for a new computer when their current computer works just fine. And Windows 7 works very well compared to Windows XP (which worked a lot better than Windows 98, but I digress). Many people (myself included) went straight from XP to 7 and are quite happy with their Windows 7 computer's performance. (Of course, that didn't stop me from getting a Windows 8 touchscreen laptop. )

Currently (until the end of the month) it's only $40 to upgrade all the way from XP to 8 Pro. People have a lot of misconceptions about windows 8 which is unfortunate because it's a very stable operating system. It's faster than windows 7 (all tests show this. even boots faster than windows 7 on my 6 year old desktop im on right now that was originally made for Vista), AND has all the new features of windows 8 and integration with social media right in the OS as well as skydrive and the other windows 8 systems like phones, tablets, and laptops. Not to mention all the easy to get apps you can install on your PC.. gone are the days of having to search for software on google for a task and spend $30 on it, or not know if it's a legit piece of software and possibly get a virus.. You can rest easy know that every app in that store has been scanned and approved by Microsoft.

Not to mention win 8 now has a built in anti-virus (not just the alerts). Windows 8 is the first time that windows defender is a full blown anti-virus software which is not the case for windows 7. Depending on if you trust Microsoft or not to make their own anti-virus, you wont need to get other, possibly slower or ad-ridden software.

But you'd be hard-pressed to find too many blogs like CNet or The Verge writing and article saying that.. you'll only find "AMG! MAH START MENU LOOKS DIFFERENT!".. PS.. show me the mac OS start menu... they seem to live ok...

Defender doesn't work well as anti virus software. Tried it out. W8 won't let a lot of my old software work. It is not backwards compatible. I upgraded and really wish I hadn't because of this. They released it knowing it had huge bugs. I like the idea behind it, but I don't want it connect every PC to mine automatically! That was just stupid. I will move 8 to my desktop as soon as I finish building it and put vista back on my laptop. Its all a money game any ways. Don't get me wrong though. My laptop has a single core and 2 video cards, so 8 is kinda too much for it. If one video at 1080p from my 8x can't run on it, then I have to go back. Better to let a dual core desktop or quad core run 8. Now if I can just get dell to make a 64bit audio driver for my laptop then I could keep 8 on it without issue.

I completely disagree with this. Ms did a lot of research through their voluntary usage monitoring and found that people weren't using the start menu. Lets be honest, beyond shutting down, how many of us actually used the start menu to start a program? We usually pin it to the top of the menu, the task bar, or desktop. Who had time to find the correct folder?
Also, I had both betas of w8 and did not have any problems not having a touch screen. There is significant increases in performance for the os. It boots faster. Shuts down faster. Programs load and run faster. And in some cases ApS are quicker than loading a program. Is it perfect? No, but nothing is.

I don't disagree with you that the issue isn't really the presence or absence of the start bar. To me the issue is fullscreen apps. I hate it in OS X, I hate it in Windows. Windows can't even truly be called Windows anymore, it's a misnomer now.

I don't disagree with you that the issue isn't really the presence or absence of the start bar. To me the issue is fullscreen apps. I hate it in OS X, I hate it in Windows. Windows can't even truly be called Windows anymore, it's a misnomer now.

Don't forget you can still do the side-by-side view of apps.. assuming you have the minimum resolution requirement which chances are if you got a monitor in the last 4 years you do. I think it's 1366 width min requirement.. You can run the apps on the side while you have the desktop in the rest... this is not side-by-side 50/50 like windows open in windows 7... it's more like a 30/70.

So you can keep the messaging app up.. or Skype app up.. while you use the desktop.. some apps you probably wont want to do that.. but like most games for the desktop, they'll use the full screen mode for best viewing.

now, im not trying to attack you, but can you name a few software that is not working on 8? because I have not seen any of my program stop working so far, just curious may be I can help out

as for speed... I don't really understand why it would be worse if you had vista before? 8 uses the pretty much the same amount of resource as 7 and 7 uses a lot less resource than vista, may be a bad driver? (my upgrade was from 7 to 8 so haven't felt any improvement or degration other than the much faster boot speed)

as for connect to every pc automatically, did it give u the option to say yes or no? because when I upgraded my desktop it did ask it, and the concept behind it was really because network neighborhood kept getting bashed... it still doesn't work as good as I hope it could be, but it's an improvement and if you don't want it, it can be shut off if you don't want it

I agree with you on Defender, at least to my understanding it's only job is to check system files to make sure they are good, not meant to be antivirus

Shouldn't need a 3rd party app to do what your users want. That is the problem with win8, during all of the beta's, consumers kept telling Microsoft what they wanted and MS ignored them - which is quickly becoming Microsoft's MO in all aspects of their business. The ONLY reason to go to Win8 is Touch. If you don't have a touch enabled device, it is a pain in the a$$, so why upgrade if your Win7 works like you want and the new OS DOES NOT work like you want. Most Windows users have learned to AVOID third party plug-ins like start8 because of malware or other drawbacks such as memory leaks or CPU cycles. As a result, the normal Windows veteran does NOT see that as a viable option to do what they are already doing.

What consumers downloaded the preview? Oh ya, nerdy tech people who are often power users and ironically attached to the old.

You people who act like the start menu being gone is some UI atrocity are ridiculous.

First of all, the old Start Menu was horribly inefficient. Having to roll over to "all programs" then scroll through a list of program FOLDERS, expand the app folder, then know which of the 3-4 links to click to open the app was a usability nightmare. Its one of the things I hated most about Windows. So you know what I did on Windows 7? I just pinned the apps I use to the task bar. Also, a lot of people use their desktop to pin short cuts to their apps. So guess what the Start Screen is? Its the natural evolution for the UI based on those patterns from the users. Another plus? Instead of having to click through all the menu folders, or click in the search box, you just start typing and it brings up the search!

Microsoft didn't just come up with the new UI out of their ***, they RESEARCHED users and found patterns. Their "building Windows 8" blog talks about a lot of that research and development. Go read it.

I've been using Windows 8 for 6 months now and I know I am faster with it. Its so much easier and quicker.

If you are so damned in love with that stupid start menu, go marry it and stop complaining.

But... but... with Windows 7 you could just hit the Windows key and start writing the name of a program. Exactly like in Windows 8. And you were able to pin programs to the start menu (where you had this neat arrows that allowed you to open recently opened files). I really don't get your post spaulagain, what's more efficient on Windows 8 than before?

Originally Posted by spaulagain

If you are so damned in love with that stupid start menu, go marry it and stop complaining.

By the way, this quoted sentence makes me believe you're about 5 years old.

I agree with you on Defender, at least to my understanding it's only job is to check system files to make sure they are good, not meant to be antivirus

It's too bad that Microsoft didn't advertise this more.. This was the case in windows 7. Now in Windows 8, Defender has been upgraded to a full on antivirus suite. This is good for consumers that don't know to buy additional anti-virus software or don't want to be worried about it and have it built into the OS. You can't really knock it until you get a virus that it can't handle that another AV can.

But... but... with Windows 7 you could just hit the Windows key and start writing the name of a program. Exactly like in Windows 8. And you were able to pin programs to the start menu (where you had this neat arrows that allowed you to open recently opened files). I really don't get your post spaulagain, what's more efficient on Windows 8 than before?

So here you are both complaining that it does things the same.. and complaining that it doesn't do things the same.. in the same post... I have read a lot of posts on different sites and on this site also about people that make a lot of statements that are just not true. Things they are misinformed on because they most likely haven't used the OS and/or just read about it on some blog and then assumed it was fact. Not saying that's you, just making an observation. I feel that you need to give a product a try before making up your mind on something.

In Windows 7, I put all my most commonly used programs on the taskbar and I didn't bother pinning them in the start menu, no real reason to Since they were on the task bar... In windows 8 I have them pinned in both spots.. Why? Well for starters, you start off in the start menu (funny how you START at START instead of START at the desktop then go to START... so name makes sense now.. but that's more semantics than anything of real significance..).. Also my OCD can be appeased as I can put them all in columns and all organized by category and name instead of just a single list for everything.. Granted that is probably just me... I have to have organization of everything.. even my old iphone wouldn't have full app pages because each page had to be a unified theme or category... but I'm still a customer as much as you are..

With the typing to search.. It is more efficient on Windows 8.. Now you can search for everything on your computer. Literally. Files, Programs and Apps, Settings, and send those search queries into apps and pull up their search screens.. It also saves your most common searches and recent searches (if you don't disable this feature).. Want to search for a pie recipe? from the start menu type in "apple pie" and click on Internet explorer and it will open up a window in IE with the bing results for "apple pie".. or click on allrecipes.. or the google search app.. You couldn't do this before.. You had to open up your browser and search from there.. That may not seem as interesting since it's about the same number of clicks however with the integration of apps like I said, if you wanted to find something on The New York Times, or Wikipedia, before you had to open IE and Chrome or whatever and search for it and then click on the site.. Now you can just type "apple pie" and click on Wikipedia app and it launches the app with the results. I call that more efficient.

Recent document tab? Yes, this isn't there from the start menu.. However pinning to the desktop taskbar, just like in windows 7. If you right click on the icon in the taskbar the menu pops up and gives you recent items. Assuming the program supports that (which not all do, even in windows 7). Also most programs support an "open recent" anyway. I don't know what software you use so I can't really say whether that is available to you or not. But the point is, the feature itself isn't gone.

As for what is more efficient on windows 8 compared to windows 7.. There is a lot.. Whether you choose to acknowledge them or say "well I guess but windows 7 is still fine with me" or not, that's up to you. Windows 8 Is faster. All of the reports have shown windows 8 to boot faster and load most programs faster than windows 7. Windows 8 is touch optimized but does NOT require a touch screen to use. I do not have a touch screen and I am able to move around just fine. Have a long start menu? Roll your mouse wheel.. You've been doing it for years on webpages so it's not a foreign gesture for scrolling through stuff. For those of you that prefer keyboard shortcuts and don't like using the mouse since your hands are always on the home keys, use your keyboard arrows and the enter key..

For closing apps, you are used to going to the top corner and clicking the X button right? So instead of clicking on the X, click at the top (which assuming the program was in full screen or max mode, would be at the top of the screen anyway) and just drag down. Want to go back a page in an app. The back button is on the top left of the page. In about the same spot a back button would be on any browser. Or, just like in any browser... Many apps also support the backspace to go back a page.. Assuming you aren't in a textbox typing something.

So here you are both complaining that it does things the same.. and complaining that it doesn't do things the same.. in the same post... I have read a lot of posts on different sites and on this site also about people that make a lot of statements that are just not true. Things they are misinformed on because they most likely haven't used the OS and/or just read about it on some blog and then assumed it was fact. Not saying that's you, just making an observation. I feel that you need to give a product a try before making up your mind on something.

My University provided me with Windows 8 at the day the final was available for developers. I installed it on my home computer and have been using it since then. I find it quite ignorant of you to assume I don't know what I am talking about. At work I have Windows 7 installed and therefore I have the direct comparison. Also, I was not complaining, I was questioning spaulagain's rather polemic post.

Now I see we don't get anywhere with this discussion. When I'm at my desk working, I never ever think: 'Boy, this would be much better/faster/nicer on Windows 8!'. That just does not happen. When I'm at home I always think: "Well, this is not really convenient." I gave this example before: every time I have to move my mouse over the entire screen to get to the right click context menu, I think Microsoft has lost its mind. I never search for documents, as my files are organized very well and I know where they are, so yes, I may be ignorant about this function.

Also I don't find Windows 8 faster. Metro apps load forever in comparison to the desktop apps I have installed, lack features and and are less comfortable to use (because of the huge buttons and the little information). Just as an example, the Mail app in comparison to Windows Live Mail: I can't set up my personal IMAP account, because this app just does not provide the options I would have to set. It is basically the Windows Phone 8 app for tablet screens (I don't write mails on my phone often, so I don't care there). There is no way I could even use it, after it has started, what takes a while. Maybe this slowness is just due my setup, but it is how it is (and as I said, desktop software loads fast).

This entire situation is different compared to the change from Windows Mobile to Windows Phone. First I couldn't believe it, why would they exchange all these features and functions with this limited system using these crazy tiles? But then I bought a Omnia 7, and I really got to like it. It was a complete change for a narrow niche. And I have bought Windows Phone phones ever since. But Windows 8 feels just like Windows 7 with tiles added onto it, and I think it is because Microsoft was forced to make compromises, and they felt forced to release a new OS so soon after Windows 7. Sure, there are some new features, but we could have gotten them without Metro.

So, we can discuss forever, I will not start to like Windows 8 more on a desktop system and you will not start to think: 'Well, he's right, there are some things that are not perfect. Maybe the bloggers aren't stupid, ignorant and bad, maybe they just see things differently.'

First, just to clarify.. in the part of my post that you quoted.. It even says "this may not be use.. just saying in general".. I posted on another thread earlier that said that surface RT had 5 apps and was only good for checking the internet... Im sorry but that is misinformed and not from someone that with an unbiased opinion.

I never said Windows 8 is perfect.. I never said windows 7 is perfect.. nor windows phone 8... **** even apple and android devices have problems.. nothing is perfect and never will be.

Just as an example, the Mail app in comparison to Windows Live Mail: I can't set up my personal IMAP account, because this app just does not provide the options I would have to set.

What options would you need to set? I am just curious because the mail app does provide IMAP support. I only link my Gmail account which has an automatic setup so I cannot say what the IMAP is missing. I am not a huge email user so the app does everything I need it to.. It gets my emails.. displays images.. lets me download.. lets me send emails. Add attachements.. text formatting.. with lists.. save drafts.. and add contacts from my people hub.. and also sends me notifications when I get an email with the notification banners that pop up so I can see the who and partial text to see if I want to read it now or if it can wait until later..

I have both windows XP and windows 7 still at work on 3 computers (2 laptops with windows 7 and a desktop with windows xp... too many computers if you ask me but what can you do... they all do different things). and using outlook on all of them (2007 and 2010) and I get the little notifications at the bottom so I know that other programs CAN give notifications but I don't know if desktop apps will let you do banner notifications on windows 8 when using other apps.

I gave this example before: every time I have to move my mouse over the entire screen to get to the right click context menu

are you referring to the context menu in apps or the start menu context menu in desktop mode (not the desktop or program context menus since those are the same as windows 7 and xp). I guess having to move the mouse to the menu instead of it appearing under the click for those 2 locations is a personal preference. I don't mind moving the mouse but that's me.

So, we can discuss forever, I will not start to like Windows 8 more on a desktop system and you will not start to think: 'Well, he's right, there are some things that are not perfect. Maybe the bloggers aren't stupid, ignorant and bad, maybe they just see things differently.'

People complain about anything and everything.. tech or not.. People are biased.. I work in the corporate world.. All I hear is complaining and moaning about everything, all day every day.. I hear people add other people's complains to their own to try and make themselves more credible all the time.. So no, I do not believe that everyone's opinion is well informed and unbiased.. and no I don't believe all bloggers are fair... And I have met my fair share of stupid people in my life.. Many of which sit in desks near me and get paid way more than they deserve.. People seeing things differently is fine.. people following popular misconceptions for the sake of either not willing to become informed or to get another post out on a deadline to keep their google page rank up is not always "seeing things differently"... How many times have you read a post that basically is a copy of another site's post, complete with "according to site X"... someone that doesn't know reads that enough times even if it's true or not, they'll believe it.

I also never called anyone (including you since it appears you took personal offense to my post which was not intended) stupid.. I just took the points you made and proposed a counter argument and approach to the problem. If you do not agree with my points that's different.. but that doesn't mean they are invalid.. it's, as you call it "seeing it differently"

I really like your post so I will only add two short things: I miss the option in the mail app that allows me to set a path in IMAP. I can receive email but the folders are messed up. I do have this on my phone, but there I just live with it. Second, I took offense (as much as I do in the interweb, that's not too much) because I read the quoted part of the post in a 'people who do this are arseholes, not saying you are, but you are'-way, but this could well be a cultural thing around where I live.

Two thing I hope will become discussed more as they are imnportant to know when discussing Windows 8:

1. The windows keyboard key can be used to traverse between the desktop mode (more traditional widows view) and the start menu (also commonly referred to as metro). It is that simple to do, so if you do not like the metro view, don't use it.

2. The lack of a start menu doesn't hinder Win 8 at all. Here is why, drag your cursor to the bottom left-hand corner of the screen and right click. This will bring up a menu of quick links to the Control Panel, Task Manager, programs list and other key areas of the system. From here you can search for files, launch the Run box, open the File Explorer and more.

But... but... with Windows 7 you could just hit the Windows key and start writing the name of a program. Exactly like in Windows 8. And you were able to pin programs to the start menu (where you had this neat arrows that allowed you to open recently opened files). I really don't get your post spaulagain, what's more efficient on Windows 8 than before?

By the way, this quoted sentence makes me believe you're about 5 years old.

You can pin limited programs on the Start Menu. I already explained how Windows 8 Start Screen is better then the never ending expanding folders to access programs in Windows 7

Also, you can organize programs on the Start Screen and label sections. Like I have a "Design/Development" section that not only has the Adobe products I use (not the ones I don't use) and my programing editors, snipping tool, etc.

Oh yes, sarcasm is only for 5 year olds, sorry I forgot. :-\

If its not better for you than you can just stick with Windows 7 while the rest of us are glad to have the change and improvements in Windows 8. The new Start Screen is just one of MANY improvements.

Don't you think calling a "Then marry it if you like it sooooo much"-remark sarcasm is a little bit too much? Maybe Homer Simpson would call it that, he would also say such a thing. Or a 5 year old. It's just stupid, not sarcasm.

And sure, I can stick with Windows 7. You can enjoy Windows 8. But why should we discuss then? Okay, I should not ask you that, as you try to force your opinion on people, and if they still have another one you try to be sarcastic. I usually never call somebody a troll, but you just make a perfect example.

If you want to know how to have a discussion and how to make good points, please look at what narv is writing.

Just read through this entire thread and have been quite entertained. Thank you all for putting a smile on my face this afternoon.

Its amazing how a report which isnt based on actual figures from Microsoft on the uptake of windows 8 soon descends into infighting on personal preferences on what software your using. The thread should have ended after a few comments "blah, blah bashing the new OS without full information to make a headline."

Change is a part of life if you dont embrace it eventually you will get left behind. Ive used every version MS has pushed out since DOS 3.1 and im now up to windows 8. Couple of hours learning curve and I understood what MS were trying to do, couple of days of solid use and I love it. All i need is for a certain large software company to make their software 8 friendly and i will be happy. Im fully entrenched in the MS ecosystem xbox360, Lenovo AIO at home, Surface RT and HTC 8x mobile and everything works exactly how i need it to apart from my desktop at work running windows 7 which throws up syncing issues with my phone and surface and xbox music/legacy zune music library

Its not perfect. Nothing ever is. But with the direction MS have taken, upgrading to windows 8 has been a no brainer for me. Do i care that its apparently adopted less than vista?

Two thing I hope will become discussed more as they are imnportant to know when discussing Windows 8:

1. The windows keyboard key can be used to traverse between the desktop mode (more traditional widows view) and the start menu (also commonly referred to as metro). It is that simple to do, so if you do not like the metro view, don't use it.

2. The lack of a start menu doesn't hinder Win 8 at all. Here is why, drag your cursor to the bottom left-hand corner of the screen and right click. This will bring up a menu of quick links to the Control Panel, Task Manager, programs list and other key areas of the system. From here you can search for files, launch the Run box, open the File Explorer and more.

It's too bad that Microsoft didn't advertise this more.. This was the case in windows 7. Now in Windows 8, Defender has been upgraded to a full on antivirus suite. This is good for consumers that don't know to buy additional anti-virus software or don't want to be worried about it and have it built into the OS.

Don't you think calling a "Then marry it if you like it sooooo much"-remark sarcasm is a little bit too much? Maybe Homer Simpson would call it that, he would also say such a thing. Or a 5 year old. It's just stupid, not sarcasm.

And sure, I can stick with Windows 7. You can enjoy Windows 8. But why should we discuss then? Okay, I should not ask you that, as you try to force your opinion on people, and if they still have another one you try to be sarcastic. I usually never call somebody a troll, but you just make a perfect example.

If you want to know how to have a discussion and how to make good points, please look at what narv is writing.

Lol, trying to belittle people in online discussions is more immature than anything I said. I know how to make discussions online, been doing it since forums were invented. You're the one on your high horse. My "marry it" comment was just a damn sarcastic joke. But it appears you are too high strung on your own ego to understand that.

And I'm suddenly a troll because I made a sarcastic comment? LOL!

Windows 8 offers a lot of advantages IMO. While some features may have been available in Windows 7, I think Windows 8 does it faster and more efficiently. The best part about it is that it allows for more customization for your working needs.

Does Windows 8 have some issues that need ironed out? Yes, of course. But its also the largest change to Windows since 3.1 to 95. But that doesn't mean its some worthless OS that doesn't do anything more/better than Windows 7. I love Windows 7, but just offers more.

Lol, trying to belittle people in online discussions is more immature than anything I said. I know how to make discussions online, been doing it since forums were invented. You're the one on your high horse. My "marry it" comment was just a damn sarcastic joke. But it appears you are too high strung on your own ego to understand that.

And I'm suddenly a troll because I made a sarcastic comment? LOL!

Windows 8 offers a lot of advantages IMO. While some features may have been available in Windows 7, I think Windows 8 does it faster and more efficiently. The best part about it is that it allows for more customization for your working needs.

Does Windows 8 have some issues that need ironed out? Yes, of course. But its also the largest change to Windows since 3.1 to 95. But that doesn't mean its some worthless OS that doesn't do anything more/better than Windows 7. I love Windows 7, but just offers more.