I was never that good at it so it hasn't changed my approach in that it wasn't really a huge part of my approach to begin with. If I end up improving my double bass skill it will be purely for my own satisfaction and maybe to do some recording of metal ideas I have.

Not gonna happen if you don't use it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Almeyda

I have a thought-provoking comment for all of us here. When I see phrases like "the slave pedal can be fit into just about any genre", I get nervous because there are actually very few genres in which double pedal actually works. Certainly not most jazz, country, pop, blues, latin, hip hop and R & B songs. I mean, just listen to the music that most people listen to and try to find the double bass.

The same can be said about the cowbell, but how many people have one of those that they almost never use?

The same can be said about the cowbell, but how many people have one of those that they almost never use?

I disagree. I can think of a number of popular songs that use cowbell, but I can't think of any that use double bass. (I'm talking specifically here about the genres I usually play - pop, country, classic rock.)

I take it back - La Grange has a double bass fill, but I learned to play it with a single pedal. :)

I disagree. I can think of a number of popular songs that use cowbell, but I can't think of any that use double bass. (I'm talking specifically here about the genres I usually play - pop, country, classic rock.)

Pop, I dunno, don't really listen to much pop anymore. I don't listen to country so again I can't say.

Classic rock: Deep Purple-Fireball, Guns N Roses-Paradise City (on and off after the 5min mark), Van Halen-Hot for Teacher is a 2 bass off step pattern, Primus uses a ton of it, lots of it in Whitesnake and numerous hair bands (now considered classic rock, as is Metallica for that matter), STP had fills with 2 kicks, and when I saw them live Eric Kretz used it a lot actually, Man-O-War, Judas Priest, I seem to remember a Triumph song or two, Ginger Baker used both kicks as did Bill Ward at times. I wouldn't consider Tool metal either. It is there, not a big part of mainstream music, but it is there.

Just because double bass has a stigma of being only for metal is really a poor reason to disqualify the double pedal. You don't have to use it just for running your feet.

Pop, I dunno, don't really listen to much pop anymore. I don't listen to country so again I can't say.

Classic rock: Deep Purple-Fireball, Guns N Roses-Paradise City (on and off after the 5min mark), Van Halen-Hot for Teacher is a 2 bass off step pattern, Primus uses a ton of it, lots of it in Whitesnake and numerous hair bands (now considered classic rock, as is Metallica for that matter), STP had fills with 2 kicks, and when I saw them live Eric Kretz used it a lot actually, Man-O-War, Judas Priest, I seem to remember a Triumph song or two, Ginger Baker used both kicks as did Bill Ward at times. I wouldn't consider Tool metal either. It is there, not a big part of mainstream music, but it is there.

Just because double bass has a stigma of being only for metal is really a poor reason to disqualify the double pedal. You don't have to use it just for running your feet.

I don't disqualify it. I still own one! But the classic rock stuff I play (ie - that our audience wants to hear) generally doesn't use it, so I no longer bring it out. When it is used in classic rock, it's usually for a fill, and not a single person in the audience notices or cares if I do the fill without the double pedal, lol.

I can play "Paradise City" just fine with a single pedal, but "Honky Tonk Women" without cowbell just doesn't sound right. And what about Van Halen's "Dance the Night Away?"

In truth, I'm not dogmatic about any of this stuff, and I really don't care what other people play. I just like the single pedal, it's all I need right now, so that's what I play. To each their own.

I play a double pedal, but I'm thinking of abandoning it because whenever I hear anything played with two pedals it sounds cliché, corny, and/or ostentatious. Maybe I just need to start playing 'interesting' things with it.

I've always played single pedal. I had double pedals a couple times but just never took to them. I think it's mostly because the music I play doesn't really require double bass, and even if it does here and there, I can do a lot of stuff on the single that many drummer need a double for. Lately though, I've been having a change of heart. I can see where it would be useful in certain areas of my playing; like my song endings for instance.

If I was to get a double pedal, then I would need another pair of hats too so I can keep them closed while my main ones are open. I like good equipment, so this decision to play double pedals would cost me about a thousand dollars or so. Plus, I would need to find time and a place to practice solo so I can get my pedals up to snuff.

I'd say staying a single pedal player is more of a practical decision more than anything. I've never had any complaints about my bass drum work as it is. I know that developing a second pedal in my repertoire is a good idea, but with my situation, it's just not practical. Pity.

What you play with a double pedal is going to be dictated by the music and by the sound and feel of the bass drum. I'm not going to play a rudiment just to play a rudiment, whether it's on the bass drum or snare drum or splash cymbal.

Generally, you're going to use the double pedal to play figures you're unable to play with a single pedal. This means you're probably only playing quick ruffs or fast ostinatos. With the size of your leg and muscles being what they are, playing accurately and controlled at anything but fff will take considerable skill.

What you play with a double pedal is going to be dictated by the music and by the sound and feel of the bass drum. I'm not going to play a rudiment just to play a rudiment, whether it's on the bass drum or snare drum or splash cymbal.

Generally, you're going to use the double pedal to play figures you're unable to play with a single pedal. This means you're probably only playing quick ruffs or fast ostinatos. With the size of your leg and muscles being what they are, playing accurately and controlled at anything but fff will take considerable skill.

Let's face it, double bass drum work is anything but subtle.

I mean play rudiments with it as an exercise to gain better control and independence between your feet. We do this with our hands, why not our feet? Remember, if you can do it with your hands, you can do it with your feet.

I understand the time, dedication, and skill it takes to successfully use both feet. I have been using both of mine for 20+ years. Think of it this way, wouldn't it be beneficial (even for hi hat purposes) to have your feet be on par with your hands? Plus, the more you learn to use your left foot, the greater your toolbox of skill will be.

Try this on for size, play a 4/4 with your hands and RLR LRL with your feet using your kick and hi hat. See what it does to your overall coordination, then come back here and tell me that rudiments with your feet aren't necessary.

I realize that you don't know me from Adam, but I never said I had trouble playing the double pedal. I've been playing drums for over 40 years, and double bass (or double pedal) for most of them. I'm just saying that I'm tired of it.

How about you post a video of someone (or you) playing something interesting using a double pedal?

I feel that the stuff that "moves" me the most, usually has nothing to do with two bass drums (or a double pedal) anymore. I think the last time I got excited about two bass drums was when the record "Danger Money" came out (Terry Bozzio with UK).

I found a DW 50002 a few years ago, in great condition for $150. I HAD to pick it up. I've never been big on double pedals, but for that price, it was nice to have the slave side lying around, just in case I felt like playing some double bass. I used it for a short while, and then took it apart and started using the single. More recently, I upgraded to a DW9000 single pedal.

Double pedals just aren't necessary in most types of music, and nothing makes you look more unprofessional than poorly placed, unnecessary double kick work. If the music calls for it, sure, go ahead and use it. Otherwise, set it aside and work on laying down a solid groove. I would estimate that about 90% of the drummers I've seen who put a lot of focus into double bass playing, also had very little versatility.

I realize that you don't know me from Adam, but I never said I had trouble playing the double pedal. I've been playing drums for over 40 years, and double bass (or double pedal) for most of them. I'm just saying that I'm tired of it.

How about you post a video of someone (or you) playing something interesting using a double pedal?

I feel that the stuff that "moves" me the most, usually has nothing to do with two bass drums (or a double pedal) anymore. I think the last time I got excited about two bass drums was when the record "Danger Money" came out (Terry Bozzio with UK).

Posting something that I find interesting would be pointless, because even if I found it interesting you may not.

All I'm saying is that it can be used for more than RLRL. Put a felt beater on one side and a wood beater on the other. Now you have 2 different sounds from one drum. Take the driveshaft off and get a Gajate Bracket. Now you can add a cowbell, tamborine, electronic pad, jingle kick, whatever. I just find it irritating that the consensus from non-metal drummers is that the only thing a double pedal is useful for is RLRL.

All I'm saying is that it can be used for more than RLRL. Put a felt beater on one side and a wood beater on the other. Now you have 2 different sounds from one drum. Take the driveshaft off and get a Gajate Bracket. Now you can add a cowbell, tamborine, electronic pad, jingle kick, whatever.

Take doubles with the feet. Virgil and Lang and others do them. But do they tell you there is a great decibel drop between doubles as opposed to singles? No, because they are compressing the sound and compensating for that db loss. Or using electronics. Mike Mangini told me that himself as a reason why he isn't big on them.

Paradiddles? See doubles above

Flams. Really? Besides Terry's Swiss triplets? Can you find me some more that are NOT in a clinic context?

Don't even get me started on drags and ratamacues.

Also, developing the left foot for double bass does NOT improve your hi hat playing. The hi hat requires its own coordination because it does not play the same role at all as the left bass drum pedal. When does anyone play RLRL between bd and hi hat?

I'm not slamming double bass. I play double bass and have so for almost 30 years. But 99.9% of it is RLRL. I'm working on keeping a roll at 220 BPM going for more than 8 bars right now.There is nothing wrong with that because you can do millions of things with singles.

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I disagree. I can think of a number of popular songs that use cowbell, but I can't think of any that use double bass. (I'm talking specifically here about the genres I usually play - pop, country, classic rock.)

I take it back - La Grange has a double bass fill, but I learned to play it with a single pedal. :)

La Grange was recorded in 72' back then there were no double pedals and Beard played a single bass drum throughout most of the 70's. A demo of the fill here @1:07

You can play any single bass fill with double pedals and if you're good you can play a lot of double bass fills on a single pedal.

The only time I used it was when I played some metal covers back in the day but even then it wasn't the crazy fast stuff. I was never that good at it so it hasn't changed my approach in that it wasn't really a huge part of my approach to begin with. If I end up improving my double bass skill it will be purely for my own satisfaction and maybe to do some recording of metal ideas I have.

As was stated in the previous post, there are way more uses for double bass drumming than for just "metal".

Without the double pedal there, I find that you're forced to:
A) develop your right foot to higher degree
B) play something involving other sound sources that will probably sound more musical, less bombastic, and take up less sonic space

BUT, in some genres, the double bass drum (or double pedal) is a crucial component, so this criticism wouldn't apply.

Issue with point A:
You do it with one foot, I do it with two. Who cares? Why is one way better than the other?
Are you going to win drummer of the decade award because you can play something with one bass drum? There was already a John Bonham, and every drummer on the planet will never ever have a better right foot than him.

Issue with point A:
You do it with one foot, I do it with two. Who cares? Why is one way better than the other?
Are you going to win drummer of the decade award because you can play something with one bass drum? There was already a John Bonham, and every drummer on the planet will never ever have a better right foot than him.

Playing the same figure with one foot frees up the other foot to play the hi-hat, or merely to use as leverage, or an "anchor". Playing it with two feet will allow you to play it louder and with more even definition, but playing the hi-hat at the same time as your left foot plays the left bass drum pedal is both tricky and ineffective.

If you don't care about playing hi-hats (as in Keith Moon), you have no reason to be commenting on this anyway.

As for your take on John Bonham, I suppose you haven't heard much of Tony Williams bass drum playing...or Buddy Rich for that matter...

Played a single for a number of years before doubles were mainstreamed then switched to a double, but now I'm back to a single. However, it isn't by choice as I was involved in a bad accident leaving my left leg handicapped. Still working on quarter notes with the hi hat.

I understand being tired of double bass. Frankly I think its overwhelming for some drummers that have half an idea of how to use it....but anybody, before you say double bass is cliche or corny, there was a VC solo from a NYC show with Jeff beck in 09 I believe, its still on YouTube.lol anyway, the man simply confounded everyone in the place with double bass flams and a lot of triplets and double bass/cymbal combos. Its unf***ing believable he would come up with that in that context... you really have to see it for yourself!

Anyone else switched to one pedal? If so, how do you feel it changed your approach?

I had double BD kits, then moved to single kits with a double pedal and finally 3 years ago went for a single pedal.

The main reason is that I didn't needed the double for the music I play and the secondary reason is ergonomy, the hat and single BD pedals are now perfectly positioned, before it was a compromise between the hat and remote BD pedals.

The approach hasn't change dramatically, but it opened a few new challenges for the BD foot to replicate some double BD patterns.

Anyone else switched to one pedal? If so, how do you feel it changed your approach?

I "toyed" with a double pedal for a long while back in the 1990's. I realized that in order to really be able to play it effectively and consistently, I'd have to dedicate much practice time to it. I simply didn't have enough time to devote to it.

Also, being relatively short and needing my hi-hat placed closed to me, I had the slave pedal extend to the left of the hi-hat stand, making it even more uncomfortable.

Ironically, I just sold that double pedal last year to someone who has put it to good use.

Lastly, since the 1990's, musically I've switched gears into a style that really doesn't use much of it so I really don't regret the decision.

I play the double pedal at home and in many of the band situations I find myself in, when appropriate, and very, very rarely does that involve dubba dubba. At church, I play single pedal about 98% of the time.

I'm putting together a set of vintage Ludwigs - a 4-piece - and I'll be buying a single pedal for those. Don't think I need the double there.

Double pedal is a tool, nothing more, nothing less, and it's a legitimate tool. So is the single pedal. Why question what tools someone wants to use? Bonzo used a squeaky single Speed King.

No one is questioning what tools someone wants to use, just how their playing changed if they went from two to one.

My playing doesn't change much. I don't do anything different with my hands, and I have always done doubles with my right foot whether on a single or a double pedal. The double is usually used for fills and quick triplet figures with the toms. I'm maybe missing two notes of every seven without a slave pedal. I don't do doubles with my left foot, usually only singles, which leads to a double-single sort of shuddering triplet with the feet, or a dotted note in the middle of four sixteenths, if I time it correctly; otherwise I do three or four single strokes for triples and sixteenths or thirty-seconds.

Ever since I got a double pedal some 5 years ago, I've loved incorporating that in to the music I played. But now I've been in a band for about a year and the music is definatly too soft for double bass, probably too soft for a china but I use one anyway. I find that the drum parts I write somewhat sound like I had a double pedal in mind. Like I use the heel toe technique to do the fast bass-bass-right-left groove.

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I used a double pedal for the last ten years, mostly for live work. A few months ago, I just felt really stagnant behind the kit, playing the same stuff over and over. So, I ditched the slave pedal and I've been practicing a lot of linear stuff, and I feel like my playing's really opened up. Not saying I'm dropping the double forever, but I feel my playing is very solid and creative right now, and its been a while since I felt this way. I'm staying single for a while.

I'm so spoiled by a double pedal, I'd have a hard time going back to a single............right foot is too slow nowadays

Practicing with a double has increased my right foot speed.

But then again, I've been trying a lot of different things I don't normally do. To the point where I'm focusing on footwork at the expense of handwork.
It almost seems an obsession at times. Probably balance out eventually though.

Yes, played double pedal starting when I was 15, at about 26 I went to single kick. In the past 2 years I've gone back to double. My thought is this- if you can't get by with a single foot, then you've gotta learn to before you can truly advance. There's just so much that one kick foot can do. The only reason that I'm using the double is that in trios, I find that if I bridge my hihat technique with the double pedal, it fattens up the sonic space a bit more. Mind you, it's gotta groove first.

I use a double but it doesn't have to be played constantly. Sometimes, I like working on my right foot and hi hat technique. But if I took the left pedal away, I just kicking the ground since I'm so use to moving my foot over all the time.