Lieberman Say Obama "Has Not Always Put Country First"

Here is how Senator Joseph Lieberman, I-CT and former Democratic V.P candidate introduced GOP nominee John McCain today in York, Pa:
"In my opinion, the choice could not be more clear: between one candidate, John McCain, who’s had experience, been tested in war and tried in peace, another candidate who has not. Between one candidate, John McCain, who has always put the country first, worked across party lines to get things done, and one candidate who has not. Between one candidate who’s a talker, and the other candidate who’s the leader America needs as our next president."
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/12/lieberman-obama-has-not-always-put-country-first/
It appears that McCain's promise to run a clean campaign has been tossed under his "Straight Talk Express" bus, along with everything else that appealed to so many people in 2000 who wouldn't dream of supporting him today. Lieberman, a former Democrat, has completed his defection from the Democratic party, if there had been any doubt, going so far as to imply the Democratic nominee isn't really an American without ever mentioning his name. Some see his remarks as not so subtle racism. Whatever you may call them I think it was totally inappropriate.
By the way, this campaign is so original Lieberman then took a page from Hillary Clinton's campaign and introduced the nominee has "Rocky McCain". Rocky wouldn't approve of this kind of campaign, that much I feel confident about. What are your thoughts?
Annie

I think that McCain will do anything to get himself elected. He will lie, change his religion depending on whom he is speaking with, he will trash anyone that gets in his way. I'm also pretty sure that Liberman would love to walk in McCain's footsteps. Did McCain put his country first when he "forgot" about the $13,000 in gifts that he was given and didn't report to the IRS? I must admit that I hate paying taxes but if no one paid any taxes the government would cease to run. There's a member here that keeps saying McCain is a stand up man, when I called that member out on the fact that he cheated on his wife that was in a wheelchair, their response to that was, both Carol and John agreed to the divorce, that was a long time ago and the affair was a short term thing. LOL Funny huh? The affair lasted almost a year, Carol McCain was in such agreement with the divorce that she didn't even show up for the divorce hearings therefore losing by default, and Carol also gave an interview saying something such as: it wasn't the accident or John being held captive it had to do more with John wanting to be 25 again, if anyone remember's both John and Cindy lied about their ages. Ok I'm done ranting over the ignorance of the conservative side of politics lol. I guess now I can go and respond to all the discussions about Edwards political career being over and I can just respond that in 20 years he can run for president lmao.
I doubt that Rocky would approve of this style of campaign, but I'm sure that whether he was a Democrat or a Republican would determine that.

Thank you Taskr for responding. I am glad to see that you are by far more intelligent than most that I see hanging on the right side. I have only made a point to bring that up because I see why to many Republicans that want to hash the past but only do so when it suits them. I don't respond to all political discussions, I really can't remember if I have responded to sooobored, I am probably missing some "o"'s there as well sorry about that. I will check out the thread, thank you again for your comment.

Thanks to both ZephyrSun and Taskr for keeping this discussion going. In my humble opinion the issue of McCain's forgetfulness when it came to claiming these thousands in gifts on his income taxes isn't quite the same as you or I making an honest mistake. He knew has a U.S. Senator that what he was doing was illegal. Anyway, I'm not going to get into that detail any further since I don't have the information in front of me and don't want to make an honest mistake myself right now by posting erroneous information.
Zephyr, Taskr is right that he has spoken out against these crazy allegations against Obama stemming from his childhood so he isn't one of the guilty parties when it comes to those things. I applaud his consistency in that matter.
Now to the affairs... Taskr wrote this:
"The woman he cheated with later became his wife and they've been together ever since so it's much different than the flings of Clinton and Edwards."
I have an entirely different opinion about this. Infidelity is wrong, wrong, WRONG and I can't imagine myself putting up with it, forgiving it, overlooking it or anything other than maybe pulling a Lorena Bobbitt on the scoundrel...lol. However, it hasn't happened to me so I can't speak from experience and it isn't about me. There seems to be a definite trend among Republican politicians which is apparently quite acceptable among their supporters and that's to go ahead andanve an affair with any pretty young thing that comes along even if you're basing your political career on "family values" - Newt Gingrich comes to mind here since he did this not once but twice - and it will be totally forgiven as long as you toss the wronged wife aside and marry the mistress. It's fine if you've used some of the other woman's family's money to fund your political campaign, it's fine if you both lied your ages so it didn't seem quite so much like a much older man hitting on an innocent young girl, and it's certainly fine if you make claims that you'd divorced the first wife before taking up with the second even though the truth was you'd been carrying on with the mistress for quite some time while still living with the disabled first wife. All of this is fine if you later say you take full responsibility for the divorce. If you also happen to have the great fortune of having a first wife with enough class to not publicly trash you for your rotten actions that's icing on the cake!
Sorry for the mini-rant there; OK, it wasn't so mini...lol! Anyway, the point I've been trying to make in several posts, if I had to choose which man is less of a jerk I'd have to go with the one who decides to try to work it out in the marriage especially when there are young children involved. Do the conservatives not believe marriage is something sacred? They're so determined to keep the sanctity of a marriage, this sacred trust between a man and a woman that they want to amend the Constitution to make sure gays can't get married. Using this standard it would seem to be better to try to work things out, would it not?
Annie

I was able to find Taskr's post about the emails and I'm sorry I forgot what else (this is the first time all day that I have had quietness and it seems to long ago since I read Taskr's post), and I knew that when he (Taskr, which I think is a man and I'm sorry if you're a female and I keep calling you a man) posted that he said it he wasn't lying about it and that is why I also said something about him being so intelligent.
You make a really great point about the whole defining a marriage issue. I sometimes do not think that it is just Republicans that sort of forget about values that they stand for, they just stand out for it more since they are so conservative. I completely understand that all politicans lie, cheat and do whatever it takes to get into office, if I was a traditional person I would probably vote for Republicans, but honestly I am so liberal that they more than likely would NOT want me lol. Yes, gays should marry, everyone should be taxed accordingly, a woman should be able to choose, and everyone should be equal blah blah blah. So there's my liberal views on it and I will continue to feel that way until I'm to old to remember my name lol. I will openly admit that Taskr has made me stop and think but Annie has as well. Thank you both for that because not too many people have been able to do that, and Annie I'm sorry that Taskr and I have sort of taken over this discussion lol.

Lieberman is a strange conumdrum. On the one hand, Democrats who were against the war are mad at him and no doubt see him as a traitor to the party, particularly since he is so pro war and because of this siddled up with Bush and now McCain. On the other hand, if we examine his voting record in the US Senate, he has voted with the Democrat line 87% of the time (ultra loyal senators like Kerry and Kennedy and others score 97% plus). However, I remember reading that other Dem senators have a score much lower than 87%m, some as low as 55% - 60%. Same goes for some Republicans as well.
I think because the Iraq war is such a big issue and has caused great anger amongst many, people will focus on this issue and therefore find Lieberman unacceptable because of this. The Iraq war masks the other votes that Lieberman has done, as can be seen above. With the Dem's ultra slim majority in the Senate they have no choice but to 'grin and bear it' and keep him onside for now. After the election though, when the Dems are likely to have at least 55 senators, then it might be a different story...

It really is a strange situation. I know Lieberman had always been on the "right" side of many issues, which for me and other Democrats happens to mean the "left" side...lol...and hard as it is to accept that a long time Democrat and a former Vice Presidential candidate no less would endorse and even campaign for the GOP nominee I guess we have to concede that it is his right, after all. Some time ago I'd said if it were up to me Lieberman would have been stripped of his committee chairmanships as soon as he'd endorsed McCain and I got taken to the woodshed by at least one fellow myLotter for being a hypocrite and for being in a party that was so partisan, etc. However, I honestly think he's crossed a line now. To imply that Obama is less than an American or that he hasn't always done what's best for his country, that was beyond the pale. Let him praise his friend all he wants, let him say he thinks McCain's the best man for the job and other Democrats may surely strongly disagree but they should still respect his opinion but he went way too far with his negativity and I think something that comes much too close to racism in my mind.
Annie

"Some time ago I'd said if it were up to me Lieberman would have been stripped of his committee chairmanships as soon as he'd endorsed McCain and I got taken to the woodshed by at least one fellow myLotter for being a hypocrite and for being in a party that was so partisan, etc."
I have no idea who you may be talking about...
"However, I honestly think he's crossed a line now. To imply that Obama is less than an American or that he hasn't always done what's best for his country, that was beyond the pale."
Isn't that exactly what Obama and all his followers have been saying about McCain when they call him a warmonger and claim he's in the pockets of oil companies? I don't see this as any different than when Obama's supporters attack McCain day after day. I'm not on these boards complaining about Chuck Hagel going against McCain and frankly, I haven't seen a single conservative say a bad word about him on these boards when he does the exact same thing as Lieberman.
"something that comes much too close to racism in my mind"
You'll need something concrete if you want to play the race card Annie. I haven't seen anything said by Lieberman that could even come close to addressing Obama's race.

Thanks for responding, Taskr. Now I'll try to answer your responses to me...
I wrote, "Some time ago I'd said if it were up to me Lieberman would have been stripped of his committee chairmanships as soon as he'd endorsed McCain and I got taken to the woodshed by at least one fellow myLotter for being a hypocrite and for being in a party that was so partisan, etc."
...to which you replied, "I have no idea who you may be talking about...
"
I'm not talking about you, as I'm sure you know. I included this statement to emphasize that if I could have been accused of "overreaction" then I think it's a bit different now.
I then said, "However, I honestly think he's crossed a line now. To imply that Obama is less than an American or that he hasn't always done what's best for his country, that was beyond the pale."...to which you wrote, "Isn't that exactly what Obama and all his followers have been saying about McCain when they call him a warmonger and claim he's in the pockets of oil companies? I don't see this as any different than when Obama's supporters attack McCain day after day. I'm not on these boards complaining about Chuck Hagel going against McCain and frankly, I haven't seen a single conservative say a bad word about him on these boards when he does the exact same thing as Lieberman."
No, I don't think it's exactly what Obama's supporters have been saying. I haven't seen or heard anyone attack McCain's patriotism or loyal to his country. I haven't really seen many of what could be called "attacks" against McCain unless you consider taking things he's said with his own mouth and comparing it to something else he's said at another time as attacks. Also, Hagel hasn't been campaigning for Obama or attacking McCain, he's simply said he disagrees with McCain's policies. If Hagel were to make an appearance with Obama and introduce him as someone who puts his country first as opposed to "one who doesn't" then we'd see the attacks fly here and elsewhere.
"something that comes much too close to racism in my mind"
You concluded by answering my above comment with, "You'll need something concrete if you want to play the race card Annie. I haven't seen anything said by Lieberman that could even come close to addressing Obama's race."
I'm not "playing the race card". You say I need "something more concrete"; does that mean someone has to spell it out for it to be considered inappropriate? If it seems to you that I'm reading too much into Lieberman's remarks maybe it's because I'm familiar with the area where this took place and the audience to which he was speaking. I'm from Pennsylvania, remember, so I know what some people in my state are like. I'm far from the only one who has gotten the same impression from Lieberman's introduction and while my opinion hasn't been influenced by what others have said since I formed my own opinion independent of any other comments, I've seen that I'm certainly far from alone in my view.
I'm really interested in how you interpret the words, "Has not always put his country first". What if Michelle Obama had said that?
Annie

Lieberman has lost all credibility to me. She has demonstrated that he is not a Democrat. Yes, he has a right to his opinion even if he is wrong, but let's try to say good things about who we support not negative things about who we don't. I'm so tired of McCain's whining. He is wrong for America and wrong for everything I stand for.

On an objective analysis, one can argue that there is much to commend both Lieberman and McCain, they have it is true demonstrated independence in the Senate by not always following the party line. I accept that neither of them would be anywhere near as bad as George Bush, who will go down as one of the worst US presidents in history. The problem however is that for many people Iraq is a huge issue and one they feel very strongly about. So though Lieberman has voted with the Democrats in the Senate 87% of the time and his voting record indicates he is a more loyal democrat than a number of other Democrat US senators, the perception out there amongst many of the left is that he is a Republican stooge because of Iraq, which blots out everything else. There are a number of people who were so outraged by the Iraq war, that they find it virtually impossible to vote for any politician who backed it. I am one of those, hence why I didn't want Hillary to win in the primaries, hence why I wouldn't vote for Lieberman or McCain either, despite the fact that I acknowledge that both of them have demonstrated an independent mindset which I like.
That said, in relation to McCain, sadly he seems to be losing much of his 'independent' gloss of late. I note that apparently his voting record is now 95% in terms of loyalty to the Republian line. He has also reversed a number of his previously independent stances: for instance he rightly opposed the tax cuts of 2001 as they would worsen the fiscal position, now he supports them. He rightly stood up against torture, but then signed up to a rather unedifying compromise. He was courageous in relation to immigration, but then to pacify the right, he compromised there too. There are other instances as well. Of course, Obama has been positioning himself as well, but these are politicians so what do you expect!

This is no suprise at all. Annie, you can't honestly tell me you are just now realizing that Lieberman is a very moderate and bipartisan democrat? He is not defecting and in fact, when asked a while ago, he unequivocly stated he is a demacrat. He ran as an independant only because he lost the primaries in Ct. as a democrat. He is still left on many of his views. He has just thad a long history, like McCain of working with both sides. I wish more would do this.

More people would if they didn't get crucified for it. Lieberman and McCain have both taken a lot of flack for their willingness to work across party lines. Politicians and citizens always claim that's what they want but the truth is that they only want their opponents to be bipartisan. When one of their own does it, he/she is a traitor, Rino, Dino, etc., should be stripped of committe memberships, and publicly flogged as a warning to other traitors.

I'm well aware that he's always been a moderate Democrat and I've never had a problem with that. He lost the primary in Connecticut because of his pro-war stance and for how he'd cozied up to Bush in a state where most voters disagreed with him. I got all that. However, has there been a Republican Senator in your memory who has not only publicly endorsed the Democratic candidate but actively campaigned with him? I've been paying quite a bit of attention to all things political, particularly Presidential elections since I was a teenager and I sure don't recall such a thing ever happening. Now, what if there had been such a Republican and he'd not only endorsed and campaigned for and with the Democratic nominee but made this kind of derogatory personal comment about his own party's nominee? Would you wish more would do that? I didn't think so!
Annie

Annie, I don't even know where to start. How come when a Democrat (a "proper" one anyway) Says something bad about a Republican, it's criticism. But when a Republican does it, It's an attack? The argument could be made that Lieberman's statement is true. Obi Wan went to a church where the pastors are bigots and blamed America for all the worlds troubles. His brother and cousin are militant African Muslim extremists. Of course BhO says he disagrees with their beliefs (that whitey must die) But really what else could he say? He has said that he would meet with terrorist dictators. (they fully support his decision). He goes to Germany as a PRESUMPTIVE Candidate, And says he is addressing them NOT as a candidate, but as a "Citizen of the World". He sold space on the Western Wall for his campaign signs. I'll be honest, This does not sound like a man who, when given the choice, would put America's best interests First. He sounds like he would give away Americas' sovereignty if it would help the world. Not to mention he let his 3 y.o. daughter listen to Ludicris. And isn't one of his friends a guy who tried to blow up the Senate or something? And don't try the "Guilt by association" defense if you label everyone who voted for Bush a War Criminal.
There are lots of people in the Republican party that don't follow the party line. John McCain for one. But the "inclusive" Liberal Party doesn't allow any wavering. 9/C Pelosi has said that it's her job to oppose everything that comes out of the Bush WH. And anyone in her party that opposes her, will pay. Hell, she practically put a FATWA out on Leiberman this W/E. He better watch his back. The people of San Fran elected her, not the whole country. Maybe that's why her congress has gotten Record Breaking Approval Ratings. This party looks more like a communist party every day. You would throw Lieberman OFF the bus and Under it. Don't you see how this is exactly what you are criticizing him for?
..and your "Not so subtle" use of the race card. BRILLIANT!!!
And who is this "Rocky" that wouldn't approve, anyway?

Talk about not knowing where to start! First of all, there is a clear difference between criticism and attacks. For one thing, attacks are usually not based on anything even close to facts or anything relevant to the topic at hand. You know, things such as "Obi Wan" (I'll admit my ignorance here because I've never seen that one before and have no clue as to what it's supposed to mean!), and "BhO".
Of course, had Obama said he was addressing the audience in Germany as a candidate I can see it all now! I guess I'm really confused because I didn't know that if you're a true American you're not a citizen of the world. What planet are we from?
You wrote, "And don't try the "Guilt by association" defense if you label everyone who voted for Bush a War Criminal." WTF??? Bush likely is a war criminal and it just might be proven one day but whoever said I label everyone who voted for him as such? I know I sure didn't! I may disagree with people about who they support or have supported but I don't dislike them for it or call them names. I know that's a new concept to some conservatives.
I stand by what I said from the beginning. If any Republican ever did what Lieberman is doing they'd be trashed like something you've never seen before by Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly, Coulter and the rest of their gang and you know it. Nobody's even "allowed" to bring up any facts about McCain's lack of support for our troops and veterans not to mention POW/MIA's who he fought to stop looking for for some unknown reason.
Finally - are you serious, you don't know who Rocky is...lol?
Annie

"...attacks are usually not based on anything even close to facts or anything relevant..." "...things such as "Obi Wan"(I'll admit my ignorance here..."
So if you admit your ignorance then how can you say it has nothing to do with facts? This is the problem Annie you keep making statements based on ideology instead of reality. I probably listed 10 things up there that support what Lieberman said and you just *blip* right past it.
You make judgments against people that don't agree with you, Irrelevant of what the facts are. If it helps, Obi-Wan ben K'nobi was a character in STAR WARS. Brilliantly played in the first movie by Sir Alec Guinness. He was the wise Jedi "mentor" Of Luke Skywalker. Kinda like Obama seems to think he is. I sometimes abbreviate his name "BhO" because those are his initials, we are supposed to downplay his middle name so I don't capitalize it. Sometimes, just for kicks, I write his name OH!bama, that's for Chris Matthews and all those folks who swooned at the very sight of His'ness. I also call Nancy Pelosi "Nana", Because of her big show of grandchildren on the first day she got the Gavel. I have recently started calling her 9/C, In honor of her record breaking approval rating. 9/C=9%. Get it? Though didn't make that one up someone else did, but you have to admit it is pretty clever. See, I have reasons for the things I write. But you would never know that because you are so quick to criticize. Instead up being the first one to be offended, why don't you ask yourself if there is any truth in what people say against you, or your candidate. That is how people grow.
I am a resident of the planet. I am a CITIZEN of The United States of AMERICA. Because of that I have certain inalienable rights that people in other parts of the world also Have but have been stripped away from them by oppressive regimes. There are parts of the world where, if I were to go there, I would NOT have the same rights that I have here. No matter how much I explain that I am an American. The thing I like the most about this country is the fact there is no barbed wire on these borders. If you don't like it here you are free to leave. "Citizen of the world" or not, some people don't share that right.
"If any Republican ever did what Lieberman is doing they'd be trashed..." Ever heard of Jim Jeffords? Olympia Snow. The Democrats are always saying "Dissent is Patriotic" But apparently not if it's within the Party. Heck, my biggest fear is that McCain will either choose a Democrat VP or that He will finally change parties after he is Elected. I figure Obama Will choose OPRAH, At least if he wants to win.xD
"Nobody's even "allowed" to bring up any facts about McCain's lack of support for our troops..." It's pretty much common knowledge Annie. If you are looking for someone to defend McCain. I'm afraid you have the wrong guy. I may plug my nose and vote for him, But not because I want to.
Here is a video called "Vietnam Veterans Against McCain"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFM1xqqTX_g
I bet you don't attack THESE Swift Boaters.
And finally, I know who Rocky is , Several of them in fact, (Marciano, Graziano, J.Squirrel, Raccoon) I just can't believe you would be presumptuous enough to speak for him (you know that outside of Pa., he is not a real person, right) =)