if the it heads

started pushing this type of detailing out as required to be employed.then it would happen, in time.but until it department heads start saying that an application engineer and a business logic developer are two entirely different disciplines you can expect to watch it drop even more in starting wage areas, and skill levels deteriorate as those that do understand the distinctions retire.

wait until you have only business logic developers to build embedded applications for..say a blackberry.~wince~

that already happens

*) I write applications*) I design and administrate MSDE/SQL Server databases for my applications*) I help troubleshoot PC and network issues*) I handle tech support issues*) I help analyse and refine requirements for RFPs going out to perspective bidders for technical projects in IS here

So...which does my boss do:

give me a more broad, important title for more money?

give me individual titles and pay me accordingly for everything I do?

Give me a title like "Senior Programmer" and stick in my "Job Duties" section the task item "And other job functions as deemed necessary by the supervisor and/or director" and pay me the same amount as he is now?

They took option 3. Generic line...no more money...forces me to work more if they need me.

Specialization is for insects.

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balanceaccounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, giveorders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, and die gallantly.

Specialization is for insects.-Robert A. HeinleinThe Notebook of Lazarus Long."

I believe this should be applied to IT. JCK sounds like what I have come to call a "Technologist". I aspire to be one myself.

We seem to be a dying breed in IT and I don't believe it's a good thing.

Heinlein

But let's face it... given a limited amount of time we can only learn and experience so much... If we were all generalists, we'd still be in the stone ages.

Even in the army... You start off knowing nothing, then you become a specialist... eventually, if you prove you can handle the broader picture (among other things) you might be able to become a generalist (a general).

The corporate world is similar. You go in knowing next to nothing, you specialize to prove that you are useful, then later, when you can handle the broader picture (among other things) you might be able to become a generalist (manager, director, etc)... if that is your goal.

Sure we can do a lot of things but we can't do everything... even if we "knew" how to do several diverse skills (which we often do), most people are not there best when required to do several of them on the same task. If a programmer writes something and they are the one that do the testing for production... I can assure you that more bugs would slip through the cracks (assuming otherwise an equivilant skilled tester). (doesn't matter if the programmer is equally good at development and testing).

Expert...

"An expert is someone who knows nothing about anything else and yet believes their expertise carries over to any other field."I thought an expert was someone that has advanced level of skill or understanding in a subject or trade (usually of more than two years experience). I thought the person you described was just a narrowminded *** with just enough knowledge to be dangerous. :)

My Last One

Architect/DesignerDuties: to set the technology path, interfacing, top level design etc

Systems EngineerDuties : Detailed design at a component level to implement the Architect's designs, and facilitate the devlopers tasks

Application DeveloperDuties to put together applications meeting the current UI specification coding standards matching the known business requirements.

I believe programming as in the old definition of coder is almost extinct now. Though I must admit outsourcing 'development' effort could bring that one back, as in translating a detailed design into the target programming language. Though that's not necessarily a good thing, as coder's coded what they were told to, whereas developers should be capable of realising that the Systems Engineer can occasionally screw up by the numbers and having a much better view of the big picture than the coder did.

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