Kenny, have you ever done small group coaching? I see this mentioned by a lot of well-known coaches, and it seems like it could be a good option for many people. You charge each person less, but the total you get for the session is more. Instead of you spotting for each one, and talking during rest, they spot for each other, help each other load, and you watch and coach. Especially if that's new to your area, it could also prove to be popular.

I've taken leads that were a group of 3 friends and just trained them all at once. The biggest issue is logistics, really. At peak times it can be a challenge training just one person in terms of getting the equipment you want.

It's actually something I would love to do more of. I train a couple, husband and wife, and really enjoy it. It's much quicker paced because I have much more to watch and coach. I'm really kept on my toes. The sessions with these 2 always feel like they've lasted 10 minutes by the end of them - time flies. Also an example mentioned above, "ryan and richard", were 2 brothers I trained together. These 2 would be classed as "The Lifter". As well as coaching them, I taught them what to look for. So, when one brother was lifting, I would explain to the other brother what I was looking out for, and what I was seeing, and also what to say to cue them through it. One of them has moved away, though, so 2 brothers are now 1. Still, it was a lot of fun training them.

I think when I make the switch to full time trainer, group/semi private training would be a good option because I would then be able to keep these sessions out with peak times.

Kenny, can you tell us how the PT model works - what the prices are etc?

Short answer is, "it depends". There's no one specific model.

In a lot of gyms, the gym itself controls the model. They will tell you what to charge, and they will take a cut. They will also basically give you sales targets, too. One example is Virgin - It's about [1 million dollars] per session (depending on how you book them i.e single or multiple sessions), the trainer gets about [1 million dollars] of that, plus aggressive sales targets to meet. I think that's right, anyway, it was a while ago I heard this from trainers who used to work there. However this kind of model is quite common.

What I love about my gym is, it's a fixed rent. You pay your rent and do what you want. You only get bothered if you don't make the rent. Everything above the rent is a profit. The only other fee is a yearly licence fee which includes insurance and registration on the exercise register (REPs). So, I could charge [1 million dollars] per session if I chose to, or [1 million dollars] per session. I like my gym because they don't care what you charge, how you charge it, and similarly, they don't care how you train people, so there's no silly things like bans on dead lifts or whatever.

Right now, I charge from 20-25 per session. Normally 20. Generally, a single session costs more but, if you book a "block", you decrease it by [1 million dollars] each session - this is pretty much a standard in my gym, so members expect it because it's common place, too. It's like an unspoken model, really. The most successful trainer in my gym charges 30-35 per session. He doesn't do free sessions OR single sessions. You book a block, pay in advance, or don't book him at all. This guy is brilliant, to be honest. He put his prices UP when the recession hit. Other trainers bitched and moaned but I had nothing but respect for him. This is how he values his own service. He's almost arrogant when you speak to him i.e. he just believes this is what he is worth. It works for him, too.

An unshakable confidence has always been a salesman's sharpest weapon!

I think the Doc's group suggestion sounds spot on too... kind of sounds like the best PE (Gym) lesson every arranged. Nothing at all wrong with that... I bet most people can think of a PE lesson that they thouroughly enjoyed.

There would need to be a large amount of "patter" involved in this kind of approach though - Pre-written, just like a class. You are a good, natural, writer so I can't see any issues once you have the "lessons" down in your mind. You just need to decide what your sylabus would cover?

I don't know what your gym is like but if you managed to get a group of five people doing this twice a week it would sell itself. Lads love lifting weights and if there is a seminar being held discussing/demonstrating the art of lifting weights they are bound to "want in".

Yeh, one of the things I want to do is small seminar type set ups i.e. "Bench Press Clinic" (for the lifters), or something. I had something like this happen when I was asked to do a Foam Rolling workshop. It was poorly advertised so only 4 people turned up, one of which is a client of mine. I really enjoyed doing it and have had a few people come up to me that weren't there asking when the next one is.

On that note, I want to do something for "The Beat Up Lifter". I've got a couple of really good testimonials for this already. One guy particularly thinks the world of me and actually called the gym to tell them this. Said he had struggled with "tennis elbow" for 8 years, seen various people with no success, then a few weeks on my program and he was pain free. He took a block of coaching sessions, got a program at the end, followed it and made great progress and has just came back to me wanting to do the same again, although I may put him on the monthly set up (will give him both options). This is something else I need to do - gather up all my testimonials. The tennis elbow guy in particular is a great one. He was quite big before but, training just dwindled over years of pain and he stopped doing it, lost most of his size. So, on top of being pain free, he put a significant amount of size in the process - obviously helped A LOT by the fact that he was RE gaining muscle.

The way I want to do it is actually nail down systems. By "Systems" I mean things I could write down say, in an information pack and hand to someone.... "Have a look through this, this is what I offer". You start "here" and end "here", and it'll cost "x". So, lets say I have my system for "The Lifter". On the back of that, I have my squat/bench/deadlift/whatever "clinics" to generate leads/awareness/interest. With The Beat Up Lifter, I can have little classes/seminars on, for example, "Training with Shoulder Pain", "Getting big legs with bad knees" or something, assuming the work shop thing pays off. So, I would have my packages/systems defined, and be able to have a strategy for advertising them.

Right now I don't really have that, but I do have clients that when I look back at them from the start until now, I can see different phases, and a process. Almost as if it was structured and defined all along.

My g/f pointed out that by nature i'll never be able to define anything because i'm too much of a perfectionist and will never be happy enough to say, "this is it! It's finished!". It's good to be with someone that "gets" me lol! So, with her help I should have something on paper pretty soon. I'll keep everything I come up with on this thread, open for scrutiny.

I remember a goofy Zen phrase in a Dune book, something like: Arrakis teaches the attitude of the knife — chopping off what's incomplete and saying: "Now it's complete because it's ended here."

I struggle to allow something to end, particularly with my music - I write and write and write and nothing is ever finished. It's never finished because I refuse to commit it to tape (so to speak) and be done with the thing. Thats the biggest thing I've got to learn: When something is as good as it needs to be - eventually finished is better than perpetually incomplete

From the sound of it, you have a pretty robust "system" in your head that just needs to be documented. Once it's written down, the details may work themselves out.

One thing about your "sytems" is that even if they're written down they can still evolve. You just need to outline in very broad terms what you want to do for the client and then tweak it as you gain experience. Your business will grow by word of mouth once people see the results that others achieve.

_________________Stu Ward_________________Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~HippocratesStrength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley_________________Thanks TimD

You could do it on line, instead of or in addition to a printed brochure. Make a simple site (i.e. a wordpress free blog), make sections for different kinds of trainees, a section for fees, a little "about me" bio, a section of testimonials (or put different ones with the pages for different kinds of trainees) and a blog. The blog would provide some free value that could attract new readers, and you could point prospects there for the details. You could revise the pages any time you want. Don't make it too glitzy, since you're not a particularly glitzy guy. Then post links on Facebook, on notices at the gym, at work, wherever. It would provide a tool for working out your systems as well as a medium for communicating to clients.

_________________Our greatest fear should not be of failure, but of succeeding at things in life that don't really matter.--Francis Chan

just so y'all know, I've booked in for a session with Kenny next month. I will report here as to whether or not he's the real deal. Remember him saying he could put 10k on your bench in one session? Well soon we'll know if he's all talk or not...

You could do it on line, instead of or in addition to a printed brochure. Make a simple site (i.e. a wordpress free blog), make sections for different kinds of trainees, a section for fees, a little "about me" bio, a section of testimonials (or put different ones with the pages for different kinds of trainees) and a blog. The blog would provide some free value that could attract new readers, and you could point prospects there for the details. You could revise the pages any time you want. Don't make it too glitzy, since you're not a particularly glitzy guy. Then post links on Facebook, on notices at the gym, at work, wherever. It would provide a tool for working out your systems as well as a medium for communicating to clients.

Thanks for this. I really do need a site. I've actually got a URL registered (just my name), just never sat and done anything about it.

just so y'all know, I've booked in for a session with Kenny next month. I will report here as to whether or not he's the real deal. Remember him saying he could put 10k on your bench in one session? Well soon we'll know if he's all talk or not...

You hear that Kenny? Pressure's on!

haha. This is where I kinda hope your technique sucks! Give me someone that benches with a flat back, no leg drive and a "soft" core, and i'll put at least 10KG on their bench on one session!

I think we should make a t-nation style video for it. Sopranos theme tune at the start, driving through The Scheme (we don't need to go through the scheme but it would make for good entertainment). Walk in with sever cases of ILS, hopefully catch a few snap shots of some of fitness firsts finest. Could be epic lol.

btw, i never did update on the massage I got. Last week I got back neck and shoulders on monday, then seen this physio on Wednesday. Was good!

The woman was great, she found a lot and cleared it all up. An interesting thing is that there wasn't THAT much difference between right and left sides, in terms of the shoulder/neck pain I was having. As things go, I wasn't feeling too beat up either probably due to dropping all pressing and just going on a "Back attack" for a couple of weeks.

So, massage was amazing. I have always snubbed the "relaxation" benefits of massage, too. This isn't even what I wanted but, she spent 90 minutes on me! I don't think i've ever felt so relaxed, and don't think my traps etc have ever felt so soft! I was subdued for hours afterwards. The room is candle lit and she plays all this trickily music (waterfalls and birds whistling etc).

I got the massage at 12:15 and had a session to do at 6pm yet I still needed to drink 2 strong coffees and give myself a shake to get in the zone.

She said she was surprised that my muscles weren't a lot more beat up, said they felt very healthy etc and she was expecting me to be a mess. I'll definitely be getting more massages.

It didn't work the miracle on my shoulder and neck that I had hoped but, that kind of makes sense to me anyway.

What did work the miracle was my physio, who performed a couple of manipulations and freed it right up in about 60 seconds! He said I was right about being restricted to that side but it wasn't as bad as I made out. He also said my shoulders are moving better than he's ever seen them. My hips are all aligned and i've now cleared the forward bending pattern. The injured hamstring is firing. I got what i've been waiting for all year, "you're good to go!".

The pain I feel in the hamstring is just scar tissue so I need to just gradually and kind of sensibly go through it. He gave me what he said was a very generic rule for progressing, "10% rule" - don't allow yourself to improve more than 10% per WEEK.

I'm not sure he remembered what I can DL before saying that. I think if he did, he would of said 5% tops, but I didn't want to correct him, 'cause i'm a bad ass.

2 weeks before the physio app, I had a sneaky DL session and just worked up to a triple with 150KG, and left it there. So, when i got away from the physio's, I loaded up on food then went straight to the gym. He also done some soft tissue work at the attachment where the tear was and it felt as good as it ever has. 10% of 150KG would allow me to go to 165KG but, I kept it at 160KG and just done a few sets. Felt amazing. Can't wait to DL again. Hamstring screams but I'm happy knowing that it's a "good" and necessary screaming.

Will be interesting to see how long it takes to get my numbers back up.

My daughter gave me a gift certificate for a massage for my birthday. I'm not sure what to expect from 1 session but my neck and shoulders can probably use some help. I don't think I could handle the candles, etc.

_________________Stu Ward_________________Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~HippocratesStrength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley_________________Thanks TimD

I was like that. I told this women a few times I wasn't interested in all that "relaxation stuff", I just wanted rid of knots etc. I wanted it to be painful. It was painful, and she did get rid of a lot but, she also done all the relaxation stuff that I wasn't interested in.

All I can say is i'm sold. Never been so relaxed. I actually felt like I was high! I think if I won the lottery, everyday I would get up, eat lots of eggs and bacon, drink some coffee, train, eat some more, then get one of these massages. I think this would be my life. I'm a simple man, ya know.

To be honest the candles don't make much of a difference when you have your face stuck through the hole of a treatment table, looking down.

She did tell me that a lot of massage therapists are very "hocus pocus" with it.

I would just go with it. I'm actually interested in all the other stuff she does now. I get a big discount and I like the women so i'll take advantage (of the discount).

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