No I'm just a member. And the fact that I'm so exicted about a software package amazes me. You see, I was burned so much by retail software companies that sold me graphics apps that I will not mention... My best software experience has been with Blender as open source. For one thing I like give and take relationships when it comes to my dealing with things as far as in the 3d media world and in life. The Blender.org gives us Blender, we can download and take it for free. The Blender community gives tips, tutorials, ideas, software tools, etc. Blender users take from the community. When Blender users like me learn to use Blender they give back to the community tutorials, tips, software tools, etc. Much like we do here on CgTalk although allot of us can't give some of the stuff we do or use here alway free.

I really don't see why someone has to ask about Blender it's not some big 3d secret. It's as easy to use as a keyboard and mouse set.

Ever wonder why you don't see Max, Maya, Lightwave, XSI and Houdini users talking about their software like I do about Blender? Well they can't . And you still haven't downloaded Blender yet, hummm.

-You haven't rendered untill you render a radiosity scene in YafRay by editing an .xml file and adding as many cpu's as you have online to the commamd line. oooohyeah. Blender.

JA-forreal

JA-forreal

02-26-2003, 08:09 AM

If you learn all of your Blender tricks kids, one day you can render cool 3d stuff with YafRay/

http://www.elysiun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9567

Not bad for beta renders hey?

"Ah, Man, JA, where's the YafRay "cool render" button? Is it like broke er' somethin'? Ah Man.......I'll never get to do anythang cool man. Oh Man.....Ahhhhh."

JA-forreal

Chris

02-26-2003, 08:13 PM

I have to say I agree with JA-forreal. Up until a week ago I didnt really have an opinion on Blender. I'd heard it was hard to learn & thought it was a bit of a toy for people doing Star Wars fan films. I downloaded it out of curiosity, along with a lot of tutorials, I tell you what - I've completely changed my mind - Blender is Wicked!

The interface is hard to get used to, theres bugger all documentation, & the latest build needs the Python API documented & cleaned up (most previous scripts dont work) but its great - its customizable to a degree I havent seen in a 3D app, once you figure out how it works with 'Data Blocks' (which could be anything from an embeedded script, a material, a light or even a complete copy of your entire scene) it all seems quite logical. The scripting language (Python) seems easy to get into, & with it you could make Blender into whatever your requirements are. Its cross platform, so you could conceivably run a nice linux renderfarm.

I sound like an evangelist, but I'd urge anyone to give it a try, & dont give up when you hit the learning wall - persevere a bit - its well worth it. :thumbsup:

emtilt

02-26-2003, 09:55 PM

I love blender, and I have used my fair share of 3d apps. It has some downfalls, but its a good tool.

JA-forreal

02-26-2003, 10:56 PM

Hey look it it this way. The more that 3d pros use Blender for their projects the more their 3d work will be compatible with other 3d users and their projects. I think that Blender could one day make 3d media production files as compatible as html media files are for the web designers. This is not a bad outlook for TV, Film, Print, Game and Web design fields that want to increase production and collaborate on larger projects. Microsoft has a dream of a completely 3d driven pc interface and web. I see Blender as a part of that 3d media driven future.

JA-forreal

X-WARRIOR

02-27-2003, 02:27 AM

blender rule...2 year ago I didn't know nothign bout 3d..then one day, completly out of nowhere I saw a link to the blender site..I look at it and downloaded it..from that day I start blending..and I never stoped :D Blender is really capable to of beating any prog out there. Ok it don't have any raytracer in it..but you can use a script to use Yafray. Blender is free and it's one of the best (if not the best) 3d prog out there..in my opinion. I think blender will become very popular, well more than now, in some year. I hope everyone will try it, because once you know how it work, it's really easy to make some great stuff :D

Look at me, I'm even making my own cg movie at the moment :D

Long live to blender!

sonix

02-27-2003, 03:21 AM

Last year in October, I had a huge urge to move my artwork in a 3D direction. So after searching the web for free 3D Apps, Blender found me.

Blender comes with the huge backing of a massive community, who all helped in their own ways to free the source code. I haven't found a similar community for any other 3D application yet.

I have nothing bad to say about Blender at all. If you don't think it can be done with Blender, just search the net and someone will have posted a tutorial or a Python script, that does exactly what you need.

I have often read comments made by people who use the major 3D apps in their work, but prefer to use Blender for a lot of their personal projects.

I strongly advise you, as those above me have already, to download the best FREE 3D application on the planet. No matter which platform you are running Blender has already been released on it so there's no excuse.

Try it you know you might like it. (Who spends nearly 6 grand on a 3D programme anyway?:shrug: )

:wavey: me, buggerit all... I do think that a few things in Blender need to 'mature' - but the beauty of Blender is if you dont like something about it - you are allowed to re-code it yourself!

I'd actually like to see a Blender forum here on CG Talk :)

ambient-whisper

02-27-2003, 04:13 AM

but wouldnt you rather get to work than have to "code it yourself" ?

RISKBREAKER

02-27-2003, 04:29 AM

I dont think you'd have to 'code' things in yourself. You can probably mention a specific tool at the development site and someone will probably pick it up and code it in for ya. OK, so you can mess around with python, but they've already got coders doing all that stuff, what the artists have to do is mention what things would make it a hell of a lot easier.

Chris

02-27-2003, 04:50 AM

Originally posted by ambient-whisper
but wouldnt you rather get to work than have to "code it yourself" ?

Hell yeah, for a small studio, I was thinking more for a larger enterprise - or for a studio working on a long term project like an el-cheapo animated feature, you could use blender as a nice base to build a custom 3d pipeline on. :)

I've personally been wanting for a while to get into the nitty gritty of creating simulations (soft body sims, fluid sims) & rendering engines, raytracing etc. Blender & Python seem to be quite an approachable vehicle for that, you've got a base 3D app, open source, with an open source scripting/programming language, which I think you can also compile plugins with. There seems to be quite a lot of info around on Python - its quite easy to get into...:thumbsup:

Bapsis

02-27-2003, 05:14 AM

Blender has been a God send to me!!! I'm from quite a poor family and had a crap pc, and i was SOOOO desperate to take up 3D.

Now, Blender not only provided me the program to express myself with, but it was able to run on a really slow computer, and still be VERY functionall.

With the open source, it will most definatly improve over time. There is already a huge start on the open source development, and im sure that Blender will attract other programers who have an interest in 3D applications.

And the interface isn't that hard to learn, i dont know why people keep saying that. With no prior wireframe experience i burned through Blender and very soon was doing some pretty awesome things. Its just a question of how dedicated you are to becoming a 3D artist, if the love and passion is there, you will bloom.

I will continue to use Blender, even if i get a job that requires me to use LW or Maya, Blender will always be installed on my computer and in constant use.

Long live Blender!!! ;)

Matt

sonix

02-27-2003, 05:36 AM

Originally posted by Chris
........I'd actually like to see a Blender forum here on CG Talk :)

Here here, motion forwarded. Maybe it would take a poll of some sort.

Wicked idea,

Sonix.

degauss

02-27-2003, 07:35 AM

I've used it for about three years, and part of my frustration came from the fact that if you want to produce something good, it's going to take some work. Part of it was trying to figure out just what that 'work' was - it ranges from the initial modeling, iterative refinement, texturing, lighting, composition, and in some cases, posing (if you're working with a character model). There are still some areas that blender can't handle too well - like modeling hair, but I've decided to concentrate on what I can do well with it, and hope that some of these shortcomings will be addressed in the future.

Certain aspects of the interface need work, because they're simply not very efficient (textures and colorbands, for example).
On the other hand, the fact that I can produce the kinds of results that I have make the inconvenience less noticable.

Generally, if you're willing to put in the time and you pay enough attention to the detail, Blender will allow you to produce some very decent work.

H@dj

02-27-2003, 08:46 AM

Hi all,

maybe, i can be of help !

for those of you that are willing to give blender a try here`s a basic training
file that may get you started:

http://www.d.umn.edu/~dhomich/training/basic_training.zip

just unzip it and and double click or drag it to blenders desktop icon.
( no python needed for this file)

have fun,

dale

KayosIII

02-27-2003, 11:51 AM

Ah blender - I have used it for many years... unlike most people I like the interface. (difficult to learn /easy to use)...

My two main critisms is that while the modelling is very fast it is also very low level... Luckily I found that modelling in Wings3d (another Open Source program) and importing into Blender got around this problem... The other issue was that the renderer was quite limited... Fortunatly you can export to external renderers though i haven't tried this yet.

My favorite blender feature is the fact that you can run it from a CDRom without installing it meaning that you can take it just about anywhere with you.

dani

02-27-2003, 09:15 PM

Haya!

Indeed, Blender's scanline is rather limited. However, there're people working at implimenting other shading types and RIB suport so you will be able to export to Renderman.
I've been testing lately YAFRAY, it's quite nice with great colors and nice speed. Jandro says he's improved speed even more for next release! And beta version 0.0-4 will also have bump mapping with all it already supports.

However, I find you have more fun trying out light maps in Blender's Scanline renderer... it leaves a lot of room for creativity.
Nontheless, the material editor, besides being rather compact is extremely confusing when you're starting... but after a few tuts, there you go! You can do Cel-shading, Nor-Mapping (like the pictures an electonic microscope will show you) and other effects, just with a little imagination.
This would need particular shaders in raytracers, (>> implies coding capacities and physics basics.)

So what ishould be done, and most of the community agrees with this, is expanding the internal renderer and adding support for external bytestreams.

There are lots of projects going one... a Dark-Tree like texturing system that supports export to external renderers, implementing RIB export, adding other BRDFs... lots of positive work!
but there's still a lot of work to be done.

Dani

PS, i love blender's interface... and I wish some nice tools would be added to mesh modelling, and have the nurbs part expanded.

wmendez

02-28-2003, 05:40 AM

Originally posted by JA-forreal
Ever wonder why you don't see Max, Maya, Lightwave, XSI and Houdini users talking about their software like I do about Blender? Well they can't . And you still haven't downloaded Blender yet, hummm.

I know a guy thats crazy about XSI as you are about blender :cool: I should try it since I use nix.

ambient-whisper

02-28-2003, 05:58 AM

Originally posted by JA-forreal
Ever wonder why you don't see Max, Maya, Lightwave, XSI and Houdini users talking about their software like I do about Blender? Well they can't . And you still haven't downloaded Blender yet, hummm.

heh. theres people that talk much more of their software than you do of blender ;) should have seen me a year or so ago:)
or CIM and lightwave.. heh. ( actually most LW guys tend to LOVE the software a bit much ;) )

Overlord_Dante

02-28-2003, 09:09 AM

Originally posted by ambient-whisper
heh. theres people that talk much more of their software than you do of blender ;) should have seen me a year or so ago:)
or CIM and lightwave.. heh. ( actually most LW guys tend to LOVE the software a bit much ;) )

They talk about there software! But can they(you) influence it, like Blender by it's OpenSource, that's the difference! :D

Overlord Dante

ambient-whisper

02-28-2003, 09:37 AM

Originally posted by Overlord_Dante
They talk about there software! But can they(you) influence it, like Blender by it's OpenSource, that's the difference! :D

Overlord Dante

influence in what way exactly.? feature wise?
or influence others to use it? or..?

because if your asking about features..in maya you got mel to add stuff you need. and C++
max has max script..
xsi can use multiple scripting languages.
in houdini you can write your own tools using vex...either by the text method or graphically/procedurally
in mirai you can use lisp

so yes you can influence it in that way.
if you want certain features ( and you cant code it yourself ) you can always give feedback to the developers, or plugin writers..

i really dont see whats different with opensource than not being opensource. i rather concentrate on the work and not have to code something to my liking..because id have to learn the code language first, which is really far from my personal interests.

Overlord_Dante

02-28-2003, 09:49 AM

Influence the whole program, everything!

Overlord Dante

ambient-whisper

02-28-2003, 09:57 AM

theres a reason i use what i use...

you can go back to your monkey work :) ill just finish this model here ;)

JamesMK

02-28-2003, 10:06 AM

Well, I'd say that Blender is pretty useful even without any extra coding effort. It's fully possible to use it as-is out of the box (there's no box of course, but you know what I mean)...

It's not an incredibly good all-purpose modeler though. But as pointed out by Kayos - it's fully possible, even recommended, to model in Wings and pull the stuff into Blender via VRML.

The renderer is a pretty average scanliner, but it can produce good results if one knows how to treat it right.

The Blender feature set is pretty huge, with only a few things left out.

And yes, the UI is a bit weird, I'll give you that. But once mastered, you will find that it is ultra-fast, useful, logical, transparent, flexible and simply ingenious.

My two SEK's.

KayosIII

02-28-2003, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by ambient-whisper
influence in what way exactly.? feature wise?
or influence others to use it? or..?

because if your asking about features..in maya you got mel to add stuff you need. and C++
max has max script..
xsi can use multiple scripting languages.
in houdini you can write your own tools using vex...either by the text method or graphically/procedurally
in mirai you can use lisp

so yes you can influence it in that way.
if you want certain features ( and you cant code it yourself ) you can always give feedback to the developers, or plugin writers..

i really dont see whats different with opensource than not being opensource. i rather concentrate on the work and not have to code something to my liking..because id have to learn the code language first, which is really far from my personal interests.

Actually after working with wings for a while I have discovered that having the source code is quite cool. Yes you can use C++,Mel,Maxscript to extend those apps and for the most part this works quite well. Sometimes you want to add functionality to the core.... Or fix a little bug that is p*ss*ng you off but you know the developers are never going to get around to fixing.

eg. I encountered this with Realsoft3d - there is a small bug in the TGA output that makes it not work open properly with my graphics program.
I was fortunate that this part of the program was included as source in the SDK and an hour later after looking at sourcecode for both Apps and looking at the TGA files in a hex editor I had a fix... This would have probably never have gotten fixed if I didn't have the source.

It can also really help you understand how a feature is implemented.... Of course having a good SDK and Documentation helps also.

KayosIII

02-28-2003, 11:16 AM

The biggest benefit for non coders that I have found for opensource is that users aren't left out in the cold ever if a company goes bust .

I will go on the record now saying I am happy to pay for opensource software.

somlor

02-28-2003, 11:25 AM

Egads! imagine if we had the source code to Mirai! :surprised

[s]

ambient-whisper

03-01-2003, 06:05 PM

Originally posted by somlor
Egads! imagine if we had the source code to Mirai! :surprised

[s]
yeah i guess it would be pretty cool to get mirai opensource if izware were to die out completely.

i guess there should be a common practice for software developers. if your company dies, and yer product aint going anywhere, dont kill it. share it :D

JA-forreal

03-01-2003, 09:55 PM

Whoa, this thread has really grown. And in a possitive way. Someone once said that we need a Blender forum here. I'm not sure if this is true, but looking at this thread I wouldn't be supprised if a Blender forum popped up here.

Yeah Blender is full of wonders so try it out. You will never see the need to give up all your other favorite 3d software that you use. You may even want to script a plugin to transfer animation files from Maya, XSI, Lightwave, Max, etc. to Blender. Hey, I have my other 3d software that I use with Blender.

But Blender should at least be on every 3d artist harddrive. It's just that useful. And it's free.

We all know that Microsoft developers are messing arround with Linux. Why wouldn't they? It's good stuff and it's free.

Did I mention, " Learn Blender and get some small paying projects and buy the high 3d app or hardware of your choice?"

Some software companies say," Buy our $2000- $15,000 3d app and use it for your first project and it will pay for itself."

Well, now you can put your head, hands and talent into learning to master basic 3d design production skills. Then bid for some contract work or make a smokin' demoreel and get a good job. Then get paid and buy the $$$$ 3d software toy or hardware of your choice.

Use Blender. It can help you to pay for the stuff you want and need.

I use Blender every day to create marketing presentations for my company. It works for me and other Blender users. Just ask them. They won't hold back-

"My secret 3d plan unveiled. To get as many artist and 3d developers as I can convince to use Blender so that I will have more resources for sharing my 3d skills, get software support, get 3d tools, get tutorials and get inspiration. In realtime."

JA-forreal

03-08-2003, 04:45 PM

A few points to ponder in your decision to develope 3d projects with Blender-

http://www.gfxartist.com/features/articles/9002

This article quote got me thinking-

Why are we investing in someone else's proprietary software? When we buy commercial software, that is essentially what we are doing.

Why? Certain hardware and software right now works "out of the box" with the hardware and software companies need to use to integrate work and share work professionally to meet deadlines.

But things often change in the favor of independant developement efforts. Take computer hardware. Years ago companies had to purchase reliable proprietary software and hardware solutions to meet deadlines. But nowadays we have powerful, "reliable", cheap, or free, and easily comfigurable computer hardware and software choices. Many compaines setup their own systems or can buy non-proprietary hardware and use free system software that works better in many cases than the proprietary stuff.

Blender is built in favor of independant developement efforts just like Linux.

If you want a free and powerful "inhouse-style" 3d developement tool, Blender is the Best thing on the market. You don't have any programers on staff? Hire one or ask for their help here-
www.blender.org

Got a team of two people using licensed highend 3d software and ten other 3d designers using software like Blender, Truespace, Carrara, etc.? And you want to collaborate on a project like a music video, small independant film or 3d game title? Blender can be the tool that you use as your main 3d production pipeline to get the work done. In realtime!

JA-forreal

03-09-2003, 02:20 AM

I found this link on the Blender forum to a 30 sec tv comercial produced with Blender-

http://www.blendedplanet.com/tut_deliverer.htm

Just another example of how some 3d producers make use of Blender.

wmendez

03-10-2003, 03:46 PM

Free Raytracer for Blender

http://www.coala.uniovi.es/~jandro/noname/

JA-forreal

03-10-2003, 07:31 PM

Hey thanks for posting one of best Blender links wmendez, YafRay.

What's even better is that Yafray is said to have added HDRI Features.

rebo

03-10-2003, 11:37 PM

slightly ot..

heh. theres people that talk much more of their software than you do of blender should have seen me a year or so ago

I presume your talking abuot mirai there AW , I wonder what tools you use now daily and if anything compares to mirai. (or maybe you do still use it even tho its pretty much defunct.?)

To get it to work for windows I just copied the Blender Publisher .exe from the unzipped "tuhopuu build " files into a copied Dir of the original Blender Publisher files replacing the old exe.

It's in high beta status but I rendered the free "Blendo Mascot"-
http://blenderchar.weirdhat.com/models/
-a rigged Blender character with the Blinn setting and he looked great.

And of course this build is also available for Linux users-
http://www.brunslo.com/cessen/blender_stuff/blender_blinn_dynamic.tar.gz

How many flavors of Blender do we have now anyway?

JA-forreal

03-14-2003, 01:38 AM

I just I would like to add this little note before I head outa here.

One of the most obvious uses of Blender is often overlooked.
I've seen some amazing game character artist video demo reels here on cgtalk. But I've never seen a demo.EXE file of a 3d game character or model with just some low detail textures and a walk cycle of a mech, camera panning or whatever that would better demonstrate an artist "in game" realtime design talents.

Blender Publisher 2,25 can be used for this purpose. And anyone with a decent 3d card can run it.

Check out these little game test to get some ideas-

http://www.blendergames.com/pages/games_downloads_page.php

I like the Girl Python game test. She has human Mocap data that was added with the BVH script. I don't think she has an .exe file. But you can make one with Blender yourself.

And of course you will need Blender Game Education here-

http://www.blender3d.org/e-shop/product_info.php?products_id=74

Blender will hook you up.

Now enough videos, I want the realtime 3d demos!

sonix

03-14-2003, 02:16 AM

Originally posted by JA-forreal
I just I would like to add this little note before I head outa here.
Now enough videos, I want the realtime 3d demos!

I might as well mention, since you included the word 'videos' in your last post, that Blender is fully capable of working as a video compostiting machine.

Blue / green screen work can easily be done, and as for using real video footage inside blender, it's as easy as applying a texture. (In fact thats all it requires really.)

I have recently found motion capture software for Blender too, so the limits of this programme are a long way off yet.

Sonix.

JA-forreal

03-14-2003, 11:59 PM

I know, I use Blenders Compositing features daily. Blender is a Super 3d tool!

Apollux

03-17-2003, 02:40 AM

JA-forreal , where are you?

You are missing the party at the NEW Wings3D+Blender Forum

http://www.cgtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=91

kill Whale

03-17-2003, 05:13 AM

good!;)

TorQ

03-29-2003, 03:24 AM

Sonix! What motion capture software are you talking about? Thanks.

TorQ

Apollux

03-29-2003, 03:54 AM

Originally posted by TorQ
Sonix! What motion capture software are you talking about? Thanks.

TorQ

I'm not Sonix, but I guess he is talking about http://www.centralsource.com/blender/bvh/

:bounce:

sonix

03-30-2003, 01:33 AM

TorQ,

The motion capture software for Blender, bvh, is avalable from centralsource.com as Appollux kindly stated.

Thanks

Sonix.

xynaria

03-30-2003, 07:50 AM

Just to say you've inspired me to take another look at Blender, and though I don't fully understand it yet I really like the interface.. compared to the car crash that is Max ..it's really refreshing.:)

JA-forreal

03-30-2003, 09:51 PM

Yes Blender lets you forget about the crazy crashes and other strangeness common to other 3d apps. When all you want to do is sit down and work on some simple 3d project and get it done without all the hassles Blender is the best. Ahhhhhh, Blender. Yes, Yes.

JA-forreal

03-30-2003, 10:54 PM

Whoa!

This thread was just moved from the News forum to this forum, hummmmm.

Anyway, I had originally posted this thread as news on cgtalk as it has helped many other persons who know nothing of our amazing Blender software. Yes I exposed OUR Blender software so others could see that Blender is worth learning and using for 3d projects in the same manner as Max, Lightwave, XSI, and Maya. And it's non-proprietary nature will make it advance beyond most other 3d apps in many areas. This was a successful thread on the cgtalk News forum and of interest to many 3d artist who had ever wondered about what Blender was all about. As it is here now, I wonder if this thread will serve the purpose that I set out for it here on this little Blender area on cgtalk. As I said before this Blender forum ever came to pass here on cgtalk, cgtalk may or may not be the place for a Blender forum. Blender is open source and cgtalk may not be as "open" to open source tools as some other forums are.

valar_king

03-30-2003, 11:26 PM

Yes, the mods made this thread pointless.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Apollux

03-31-2003, 01:15 AM

Ja-For, the thread was totally agains the rules of the CG News forum... They moving it here was something predictable.

Apollux

03-31-2003, 01:18 AM

This news forum is not an open environment. It will be heavily moderated and filtered.

JA-forreal

03-31-2003, 02:46 AM

Yeah I know. I don't know about other members here at cgtalk, but I try to keep most of my post here on cgtalk and as informative and helpful to all 3d artists. And I think that Blender is "The" best software for open discussion of 3d principles from project workflows to lighting setups. And all files and data can shared freely without any worry about copyright issues of any kind from a software company.

I liken Blender and its form of 3d design communication to the html format of design communication. Blender can be used on most systems and is freely distributed on the web. I know that artist who are communicators either commercially or purely artistically need tools like Blender that they can control and direct to meet all of their technical and expressive needs.

I know that 3d software engineers need tools like Blender to express their theories in 3d simulations and dynamics that offer a "think tank" process involving programmers, scientist, and artist who put these theories to work in real world projects daily.

I would hope that the cgtalk forum is being guided by such artist and design professionals that will moderate this forum to the benefit of all 3d and other CG artist here on the list not "just" those who use a "particular" software package.

As we Blender users know, Blender may be overlooked by some in the industry but it cannot be ignored. It's far too useful for that.

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