...the Golden State Warriors have offered free-agent Elton Brand a more lucrative, multiyear deal than the Clippers have proposed, according to NBA sources who requested anonymity because they are not allowed to speak about other free-agent dealings. On Tuesday, the Clippers reached a verbal agreement to sign Warriors free-agent Baron Davis and were nearing a new deal with Brand.

Now, the Warriors have more salary cap space than the Clippers and have offered Brand a maximum contract, according to the sources.

Brand could not be reached for comment this morning.

The subtext of the Clippers' poaching of Davis has been that he and Elton have [unofficially] coordinated their decisions. That's the hope, at least.

UPDATE: From Chad Ford's live chat on ESPN.com: "I think [Elton Brand] opted out specifically so that the Clippers would have room to sign Baron. He'll be back in LA for sure ..."

Posted Wednesday, October 29 at 3:20PM

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Comments

I'm going to play lawyer and say GS knows they have no shot at landing Brand. But if I thought I was jilted by tampering and I was ticked off, I need proof to file a complaint with the league. So I try to muster proof by making a max offer to Brand knowing that he's going to sign with the Clippers for less money. Then I file a complaint with the league to try to get something from the Clippers in compensation.
Sounds far fetched? Probably.
But to ward off speculation, I think this means Brand will need to wait before he announces his decision.

The Lakers got Pau Gasol handed to them on a silver platter... basically for FREE.

Maggette is a MLE kind of player... gets you 20 points, but doesnt do much else. Never passes on the break, doesnt play defense in stretches, cant "finish" a game off, and has NEVER even sniffed an all-star team. He has always been a me me me player. 6 million a year for a complementary player like that is perfect

I wish him all the best in his new digs..and i'll cheer him when he comes back to Staples...

Mostly i'll be cheering because he opted out and left the window open for B Diddy. But also because with all his shortcomings, he did bust his ass on a nightly basis. he really did.

bad journalism by the LA TIMES (which has been the case often recently). That was reported by ESPN and the SF Chronicle as far back as yesterday evening - and all have strongly hinted that Brand is not interested in taking that contract offer form GS. The LA TIMES also really painted a dishonest picture yesterday regarding Davis -implying that he turned down more money from GS, when all reports imply that the Warriors were just not interested in giving him a substantial contract extension.

From what's been thrown about I believe Brand would get the same deal as BD. I'd be surprised if it was much than that. I think they were essentially splitting the Clipper's cap space.
So the GS deal would be significantly more (about $3 to $4 million?) if it was for the max.

In GS, Brand would a few good players, Stephen Jackson and Al Harrington, and a bunch of guys with potential.
In LA, Brand is playing with another all-star and another potential all-star in Kaman. If Brand takes this deal with GS, he's a hypocrate. There's no way Brand takes this deal.

With BD on board now, I can't see EB leaving for GS. My bet is he's laying out for a few days cause there alot of people in higher NBA circles that surmise the Clips tampered with BD. It happened oftly fast, so there may be somethnig to that, thus EB has to give GS the presumed fair look. Whatever the Clips did or may have done, it's all fine by me as long as this goes down as planned on the 9th.

he's probably staying, and I highly doubt he'd go to GS now, but in theory Miami is still not out of the question. If he tells Clips he'd go to GS, they'd work a sign and trade I guess with Heat - but it's all doubtful...If Warriors really go to over 105 million, maybe he can't turn down that money

Smush is basura. Korolev migh have been basura, hard to tell since he never got playing time. Maggette was making good money off a fair contract. He's really more of an $8M a year player. His opt-out was badly timed and yet beneficial to the Clippers. While Maggette was not my favorite player, he was undeniably talented and wasn't one to phone it in. If your so inclined on seeing less Dunleavy criticism, perhaps you might start with your own Maggette bashing.

I think Baron Davis Signing is HUGE because it makes the Clippers legitimate playoff contenders. Right now I would say they are in the bottom half of the playoff contenders.Seeds 5-10. I think the Warriors will take a step back and will drop pout of the top 10 in the west. The blazers will definitely be in the hunt with Oden and Bayless.

I think the Clips need to follow the blue print of the Celtics last year. I think they should go after and GET Vince Carter in a trade. I think the Nets would bite on a deal of Mobley, Thomas and a Future first round pick. Mobley and Thomas only have two years left on their contracts and will come off their books in 2010 when they will be trying to go after Lebron. The future first will be a sweetner. I think they would bite on that deal.

This is a PR move by the Warriors to keep their season ticket holders from jumping ship. The more I think about it, the less afraid I am that Elton will take the offer. Given everything that has occurred up to this point, it makes no sense for him to take the offer . . .unless the thought of an extra $20 million suddenly overwhelmes him, which I doubt. He's going to be ridiculously wealthy anyway. And Elton's never seemed like a guy whose ego is driven by building a bigger mansion than the next superstar.

I don't think that I could ever get over losing EB. I hope that he doesn't take B Diddy with him. I don't think that he could leave BD hanging. My guess is that he and BD lead a playoff march this season!

I also couldn't handle another year w/ Maggette. While I think that he was/is a great player, i don't think that he affected the outcome of many games. He scored tons of buckets but we lost a lot. By no means do I blame him for our losses. I'm just saying that I don't think that we'll miss him much. 20 ppg players who don't defend can be found anywhere.

Just thinking out loud, but I wonder if Maggette feels a bit jilted. Recall EB opted out after Maggette. If Maggette didn't opt out, this whole scenario doesn't play out and EB likely would not opt out either. After so many years together with EB, I wonder if Maggs was saying, "Et tu EB?"
Maggs was opting out anyway, but maybe he really did want to stay if he got his payday.
You gotta love the drama...

Not so worried anymore. LATimes is the only major outlet going with this story and their story is thin meaning just the facts, no editorial comment. I do think Brand is listening to all to make sure everyone realizes there has been no collusion. And there is no way he's going to SAC. I bet they wait to announce his deal on Monday after the holiday weekend.

OK all you Dunleavy bashers, it's time to eat some crow if this deal gets finalized. Without MD, there is no Brand or Davis because without MD, DTS doesn't spend the money. Got that MD bashers? MD brought a Wall Street mentality to the Clips. Exactly how many good free agents did the Clippers sign over all the years with Elgin and all the prior Clipper coaches (Brown, Fitch, Ford, and so on)

Oh, I forgot. You would rather have a creative, dynamic coach who can create a run and shoot offense with Josh Powell and Brevin Knight.......

AW, you know when you encounter a raving lunatic on the streets babbling incoherently, the worst thing to do is to try and engage him in conversation. Just ignore him. He doesn't merit your attention. He's just screaming into the wind, trying to get some affirmation of his existence. You can feel sorry for him, move on, and know that there's nothing to be done for the poor chap. Let him rant his bitterness and failures into the void. In the end, he's just a ghost.

On more relevant fronts, I talked to one of the Clippers season ticket rep today and he sounds pretty confident that the deal with EB is done, just waiting for enough time to pass in order to "soberly" weigh all options.

Jerdog, please stop with the dunce is smart nonsense. This fell into his lap and one should not be confused with what's reality. See Jerdog, there's things you see on the surface (what you read in the papers/online etc.) and then there's the way men make shit happen. This move, if it comes to be on the 9th, was engineered by David Falk, not the dunce. This is what agents do, they broker deals for their clients. I do it all day long myself.

Sterling needs to put a competitive product on the floor or there's no people in the stands, and when that happens the lease at Staples also dissappears.

Sterling indeed seems more motivated to try to win, and there's plenty of motivation from many fronts to do that, and I am telling you it has absolutely nothing to do with the dunce. He's lucky to still be employed by the Clips at such an insane amount.

The fact that you percieve him to be some sort of wall street genius, and somehow that translates into making good basketball decisions both on and off the court is so comical to me. The guy is a proven loser, look up his stats before trying to speak on things you cannot comprehend, Jerdog.

You know...when you encounter some schmuck that tries to sound intellectual, the best thing to do is to mock is phony intelligence. Don't ignore him, because he is in search for attention since he is a 50 year old virgin. He's tying to get some validation that his GED means something. Don't feel sorry for him, pay him the attention he is looking for as you know you can always help out this poor schmuck by offering him a job to carry Kobe's jock strap. Let him continue trying to sound educated, because in the end, he's just a jackass.

Whatever your opinion of Dunleavy here guys,this season--barring injuries--will prove whether he's a decent coach or a bad one. With all the injuries we had last year, Dunleavy had a ready made excuse, but the team probably played below its talent level over all. With our expected lineup this season, it falls to Dunleavy to get us at least into the second round of the playoffs. Anything less, and Dunleavy is probably gone. There's alot of pressure on him this year and rightly so. The front office has done all it can to provide him with talent, now he has to make it work on the court and show that the EB-Cassell playoff run wasn't a fluke.

Dunleavy will certainly be scrutinized more this year. The big advantages we had over the Nuggets in the round one victory was homecourt advantage and their dysfunction as a team. The team will once again need to enter the first round with home court, though that sounds like a tall order. Dunleavy doesn't seem to be anyone's preffered choice as coach (at best, his ability to persuade Torkowitz is his saving grace), but he should be looking forward to working with this lineup. Secound-round or bust.

TW, I suppose that Falk engineered MD's $22MM contract, too. I also guess that, as you would have us believe, that Falk convinced DTS to pop for the re-signing of Kaman, the signing of Mobley, and the matching offers on Maggette and Brand. I didn't know that Falk had direct access to DTS's check book. Evidently, Elgin wasn't able to find it all these years.

Damn. Now I'm worried because Stein's article says Clippers officials are "concerned." Either everyone involved is trying to do everything possible to make sure no one thinks there was collusion (which there never may have been - right) or Brand isn't the angel we thought he was.

This is probably gonna be a long holiday weekend for everyone involved.

Although, if for some reason he does consider Miami, I don't think Marion would be a bad fit in a sign and trade. It would allow Kaman a lot more room to post up. And Baron/Marion on the break is a pretty slick combo.

The Warriors sign Brand and then trade him to...............the Clippers, for Baron Davis!

Both teams get to keep their big name stars, both players get long-term deals and the entire ordeal with the media coverage and intense speculation is the perfect storyline for each star to produce a film about.

Imagine it now, fans going from love to hate back to love, complete with a YouTube sensation video begging Baron to come to LA and profiles on firedunleavy.com and fearthebeard.org.

If the Clippers really thought Brand was leaving, the Clippers could just rescing Baron Davis' offer. That would leave us with Brand and about $9 million in cap space. After that we'd probably try to hammer out a S&T for Davis. Either way you look at it, we're getting both guys. A S&T for Maggette could be in the works, a good reason why this is taking so long and why Maggette hasn't found a team yet if Philly isn't interested in him.

Even in the (ostensibly) New Nacion, there's still a tinge of the Old.

I really do believe that Brand's opt out is exactly what's been speculated: a way to give the franchise room to bring in a top FA to pair with EB. So while there may be back-and-forth for the cameras, I strongly believe he will join BD in LA.

But since a deal isn't closed...let's look at the worst case scenario. Because, well, we Clipper fans always should.

If Brand does move on, my fear is that the verbal agreement with Davis collapses as well. Baron can't sign until the 9th and I believe he agreed to terms for the opportunity to play with Elton. But if Brand bolts, there's no overwhelming financial or competitive reason for Baron to come to LA. At that point, the only reason to sign a deal is if Baron's #1 objective is to position himself for non-basketball activities and I don't believe it is. Then we're....really f'd. At that point, the final shoe to drop will be Kaman announcing that he's bolting for the Fatherland and a spot on the Dusseldorf team.

As I said, I doubt that Brand does anything but sign with the Clippers. But just looking at the range of scenarios if he does leave, this one is very plausible.

No jerdog..Falk had nothing do do with all of those terrible decisions, those are the dunce's. Of course speaking of Mobley and Kaman. DTS had no choice but to match on Brand and Maggette you imbesil, and Mobley is highly over-paid. If you think that was a good signing you need to have your head examined. And Kaman, although he has shown flashes of briliance, he's far from a consistent player that merits 11M per year. Just like the drafting of Livy and Korolev, that signing was another dunce leap of faith that may work out but not exactly a signing that was worth the risk at the time. It could have just as easily gone the other way cause Kamna was coming off a sub par season.

And with regards to the dunce's contract, had it not been econimically inconvenient he would have been fired last year. I met with Andy for a while before a home game in March and he and I had a very candid discussion about this very item. So again, Jerdog, you probably shouldn't be speaking about things you apparently know nothing about.

If the EB and BD signings happen next week, this would be nothing more than the Clips finally hitting something after so many mis-fires and hardly worth prasing the dunce. That yahoo article almost made me ill to read, and anyone that believes that to be truth is not paying attention and/or not very smart.

If EB says he's leaving before July 9th, we simply don't sign Baron! It's that easy. But it doesn't end there.

After we have Brand locked up, Davis will still be FA. The Warriors aren't brining him back, no team with cap space is going after him. The Clippers would simply use the cap they have left after signing Brand and renouncing Maggette on Davis, and send Tim Thomas and a 1st for Davis S&T. No matter how you look at it, Brand is coming back and Davis will join him. Don't worry, guys.

I also saw that interview on the news yesterday during the signing of Eric Gordon . Rosen did give off a confident and positive response. He said that they drafted an explosive and talented Gordon along with back up Taylor, PLUS any free agency moves. Smiling the whole time.

If Brand does leave, I think I would stop watching basketball. I've had plenty of reasons to stop over the years, but this would be the last straw. If you can't have faith in the integrity of someone like Brand, who can you have faith in?

TW, again you miss the point, but I am not surprised that you did. Most people who issue direct insults at others do so in direct proportion to their inability to persuade other people. MD has business skills that none of his predecessors had - getting DTS to write big checks to keep and draw talent. There may be question marks regarding the talent they sign and the draft picks they choose, but the fact remains that DTS is not making these decisions on his own, by relying on Elgin Baylor, or because he has a lease at the Staples Center. He didn't sign MD to a major contract because of the Staples Center lease! MD is not coach of the year, but he dserves more credit than you give him and should probably replace Elgin as GM. Evidently he has fielded a good enough team to keep you in the Clipper fold and have you blogging here on a regular basis.

Yeah, but the dubs will offer 100 million for an aging/injury prone Brand, simply out of a need for revenge. Talk about smart!
I love the guy, but there's NO WAY he's worth that much money. Making business decisions based on revenge is never a good idea.

Hmmm....No Jerdog, you are the one that is missing the point and I could care less if you get it or don't and thus will speak as I choose. If you are insulted, so be it, I speak my mind and people either respect me for telling it like it is or they don't..mostly cause they don't get it. I digress and since I have a few minutes today, I'll try again but still could care less if I persuade you cause those that get it know the dunce sucks.

The dunce's business skills? Tell me, has the dunce had these business skills you speak his entire coaching career? If so, why does he have a career losing record ?? Answer me that. Then explain to me why the Clips have had one winning season in the 4 he's been here if he's such a skilled businessman ?? To me, being successful 1/4 of the time makes you not very good at your job, unless you are a race car driver.

The point is Dunleavy sucks and is mostly responsible for the current mess the Clips are in, and if this does end up going down as planned next week it's due to EB, BD and David Falk, and to a much lesser degree, the dunce and Clips management.

In addition, I have had my Clips tix for 8 years now and I use them for business. My problem with the dunce is he has continually been making the most assanine decisions and is crushing the team, and thus my investment- both monetary and time. I told this to Andy directly and he agreed with me. Hell.. you could buy lower bowl tix for $5 before any game last year. Check that tix were $2 towards the end of the season, and once they guy begged me to take them for any price. When you pay $100 a ticket, that's not what you would call a well performing asset is it, Jerdog? Last I checked astute businessmen don't allow their assets to 5% or less of their outlay. The dunce the great businessman, this is quite possiblly the worst take I have ever seen, Jerdog.

Back to the dunce's contract..although this was mis-guided, DTS decided to keep Dunleavy because business was good and he didn't want to interrupt it. Basically, everyone was still drunk with euphoria of making the Playoffs. But what he failed to realize is that the team had given up on MD prior to the signing of that contract that season, and the Clips have been in a downward spiral ever since. Your pal the dunce is largely responsible for much of this with his rash of poor personnel decisions as well as his horrible coaching during games.

Every decision DTS makes has his finances in mind. DTS is the successful businesman, just not with the Clips. And most definitely he has to put a competitive product on the floor or Staples will ask him to leave. This is much more motivation than anything that comes out of the dunce's mouth, especially with all the dunce's moves that haven't panned out. The Clips will be lucky if Eric Gordon doesn't turn out as poorly as the dunce's last two picks in Livy and Korolev.

take any coach in the league...and if they could have gotten more than 28-30 wins with that team, that coach should win coach of the year.

tw says it's all dunleavy's fault that they were in that position in the first place.

On the other hand, he wont give credit to Dunleavy for 2006, nor will he acknowledge Dunleavy's role in landing Baron Davis this offseason, or the Thornton pick last year, or the opening of the wallet for the core of EB & Kaman.

the anti-dunleavy commentary has grown tiresome... let's turn a new page.

Actually, ACD, all tw is doing is pointing out some of the historical issues that have been getting in the way of the success of the Clippers. Certainly injuries played a role, recently, but there are a number of additional red flags concerning MDSr as coach and effectively as GM that will not dissolve simply because they were able to sign BD as a free agent.

Apparently you want to ignore those issues stick your head in the sand, which is not surprising given the contents of the majority of your posts over the past several months on this site. You certainly have every right to do so, but it would seem rather silly to suggest that we should all turn the page simply because you have no interest in the issue (and really have never had any interest in the issue).

ACD, this is a conversation that I am having with Jerdog, feel free to stay on the sidelines if you are tired of the dunce talk.

Jon, the Clips could have done something/anything with the roster during the off-season and when you pair the injuries with previous poor decisions in the draft and free agency, and the dunce at the helm..you have the 2007-2008 outcome.

Great post TW. The idea that the Dunce is a great businessman because he persuaded the owner of a team to resign his only two good players is a real laugher. If that's how you judge talent your standards are beneath low. That's like eating chuck steak and telling everyone how great it is. I've never heard so much credit be doled out for so little. The Dunce had nothing to do with signing Baron Davis. He was in NY trying to ink his boy Udrich. The Clippers were mighty lucky that Udrich turned the Dunce down or the Dunce would have torpeodoed EB's behind the scenes work.

Wall Street! What did the Dunce do on Wall Street and what qualifications did he have to do it? And how does working in some office trying to sell people investments (if that is what he was doing) make him smart?

I don't understand Hollinger's analysis in concluding the Clippers are not necessarily a playoff team. Essentially, he compares the new team (with BD and EB) with the 06-07 team, swapping Thornton for Maggette and BD for Cassell and says that's not a significant improvement on the 06-07 team. I like Cassell for all him moxy, but he's no BD, especially in these recent years. Why would a healthy BD not give the Clippers 10 more wins over the 06-07 team for 50 wins?
I would think a full time basketball analyst would give me more to chew on than that.

In comparing the 06-07 team, it's strange how he doesn't mention Livingston's injury and how that might have affected the team. Or that Jason Hart was brought in to be our last minute savior with Sam Cassell going down as well (unless you thought Will Conroy would have got it done). That team came up maddeningly short, even moreso when you consider how costly those injuries.

The baggage Baron Davis brings are rightfully pointed out in the article. Also, our bench is still shallow in the back court, so Baron's notbale injury history is worrisome. Hollinger's analysis overall seemed glib. Get used to analysts writing off the BD aquisition, at least until November when records speak for themselves.

DTS has said in the past that he will pay super star money to SUPER STARS. So maybe all the good young players that came and went like Odom,Miles,Richardson and others did not deserve big contracts. Where are they now? He saw talent in EB and CM50 , maybe Dunleavy persuated DTS but I think Sterling made up his own mind.

Exactly Pablo. Sterling has been quoted, when challenged on his lack of spending on his draft picks, to name one player that he should have spent big money on to retain that turned out to be some great player. In other words, to name his mistakes. The fact is, there aren't any players he let get away. He let a bunch of bums go and/or half-way decent players who were after way more than they were worth. The Clippers have always drafted poorly with the exception of Kaman and the Thornton pick, the latter of which was so obvious when it fell into their laps that they had no choice and even the Dunce could not foul it up. Signing stand-up quality and talented guys like Corey and Elton was a no-brainer and something Sterling had no problem doing. He would have done that with or without your Dunce.

How good are the Clippers now?
Assuming Brand stays, they're decent … and that's about it. I'm not sure they're even a playoff team in the West. Seemingly everyone is talking about the 2005-06 Clippers who won 47 games and comparing this bunch to that group, but what about the gang from 2006-07?

That team had Brand, Maggette, Chris Kaman, Tim Thomas and Cuttino Mobley healthy all year, and it went 40-42. Replace Maggette with Al Thornton, and replace Sam Cassell with Davis, and you basically have the 2008-09 Clippers … except with Mobley halfway to the glue factory and no depth whatsoever. So we're really supposed to buy that they'll rocket into the West's upper crust?

I wonder whether everyone is overlooking the personality angle, too. On paper, few pairings seem more flammable than Mike Dunleavy and Baron Davis. Dunleavy is a control guy at the offensive end who likes to call set post-up plays over and over, while Davis has bristled under every coach who didn't give him free rein to launch contested 3s off the dribble with 21 on the shot clock.

Don't get me wrong, Davis is a fantastic player. But I wonder how it's going to work when Dunleavy calls 4-down six plays in a row and whether Davis' disdain for structure ultimately will cause him to underachieve the same way he did for Tim Floyd, Byron Scott and Mike Montgomery.

While I'm on a roll, one other thing -- let's not overreact to Donald Sterling spending money on talent. Signing both Davis and Brand takes the Clippers to the salary cap … and that's it. Granted, that's a pleasant departure from the days in the late '90s when they were making trades just to meet the league's minimum salary, but it's not like he's going dollar for dollar with Mark Cuban. Of course, this will become more obvious when The Donald fills out the last five spots on his roster with minimum-wage guys, but that won't happen for a couple more months.

Hollinger is a sketchy reporter/writer at best. ESPN Radio had him on to chat about the Davis signing on Tuesday night (10 PM PST hour) and he had literally nothing to add to what the host could have read online. Chad Ford and Mark Stein are the real insiders there, but they are both on semi-vacation at the moment.

I think the Clips will still be fighting for the 8th seed, but if they can get one other veteran for the bench might be a lock for it. With Davis and Brand they are infinitely better than DENVER. Question is whether PORTLAND makes a real jump this year with Blake the primary point guard (unless Bayless comes on strong). In my view, Portland is .500 this year, takes another jump next year.

The Dunce lost that 2006=2007 team. That season was all on him. If the Dunce does not change (not happening as he is as stubborn as a recalcitrant mule) I don't expect this team to fare any better. A good coach could push this Clipper roster to the top of the west - but with yer Dunce I don't see it. I see problems with Dunce and Davis and Davis thought Nelson was tough to play for with his benching. Nelson was AN OFFENSIVE GUY. Wait until he gets pulled for Q Ross.

What are anybody's thoughts on the following free agents being a Clipper:

1. Josh Childress (Restricted). I actually love this guys game. He'd be a great reserve.
2. Earl Boykins (Unrestricted). He could be a spark off the bench.
3. James Jones (Unrestricted). Is he too big to play an oversized SG?

What are anybody's thoughts on the following free agents being a Clipper:

1. Josh Childress (Restricted). I actually love this guys game. He'd be a great reserve.
2. Earl Boykins (Unrestricted). He could be a spark off the bench.
3. James Jones (Unrestricted). Is he too big to play an oversized SG?

Jerdog, love how instead of answering the vaild questions I raised to you regarding the dunce, you choose to ask me a barrage of questions. How squirly of you, but whatever.. you need to come to grips with the fact that the dunce is not the genius architect that you say he is. He's made a shit ton of mistakes yet plays it like he's all knowing. That's the worst kind of dumb, but he doesn't fool many of us, just the guys that write his checks- and that is about the only thing I give the dunce credit for.

Now, cause I'm not afraid, I'll answer your questions:

Yes, Andy, the president of the team is whom I met with and he's a pretty bright guy and we had an extremely candid discussion. He's a hell of alot smarter than the dunce no doubt. Andy's biggest flaw was his reliance on the dunce, and now that he gave him that contract he's stuck with him for the time being.

I would not have any previous Clipper coach on the sidelines today. This is a new era for DTS and the Clips being at Staples and I would hire a recently retired player, someone with experiance under a proven coach if possible. Someone like Brian Shaw.

On paper, if this goes down as planned next week, this team stacks up pretty well against other Clipper teams. Hell the Clips have sucked for the better part of their existence so there's not alot to compare them to. I however would not have T2, Ross, Mobley weighing the team down..to name a few. The team would look alot different if I were calling the shots to say the least.

No I am not saying that Elgin should stay, he's basically only there still cause of his relationship with DTS and doesn't have much of a role these days anyway.

Ya, I'd definitely say that Laker tix would have been a far better investment over the years but it is what it is. I guess I like the constant abuse of vesting in the hapless Clips, with hopes every year that the dunce will dissapear soon. Call it a vice I have along with partying too much. Staples center is a great place to party if you know the right people, and that has made going to Staples center alot less painful the past few years.

And lastly, I would have gone with college players that proven themselves at that level cause Gordon clearly did not. This pick could work out but to me it was too risky given the dunces poor selections of Livy and Korolev that are still costing the team big-time today. If it was up to me I would have done my homework on the memphis guys (Rush and Chalmers) CDR as well as Bayless and the guy from Western Kentucky, Courtney Lee. I would have tried to trade down for multiple picks and grabbed a few of these type of players..guys that excelled at the collegiate level whose games could translate to the NBA.

It's funny to me that you think I only armchair QB..if you look back to my posts after last year's draft I said several times that Rodney Stuckey was the steal of the draft at that #. So say what you will about my intuitions and intellect, and if you think I'm off, you'd be mistaken (again).

Also, as a condition to my return to the Clippers, I would also like Michael Wang to perform a song asking me to stay. I think it is unseemly that he should compose a song for Baron, but not for me, who have been here through thick and thin.

Typical Clipper fan: in some ratty tee-shirt, unshowered, living in some crappy apartment even DTS wouldn't own. I don't even wanna know why there's a mattress on it's side against the wall. I hope you don't spend money on Clipper tickets. That's not gonna make anyone want to come to the Clippers.

Learn to sing, find somewhere cool to shoot the song, and douche yourself up a bit.

I like Plaschke's article and if Arenas gave back $16 million for the sake of the team then EB should be able to give up $20 million.

Am I the only one who hopes the Germans don't qualify for the Olympics so it reduces the chances of Kaman getting hurt? I don;t mind if the Rapist gets hurt but we may be on the verge of something special in Clipper Nation and we need to avoid any & all potential risks.

As far as the Dunleavy topic, he may be a hard ass and not very compromising (see Corey Maggette) but you can't discount the fact that DTS started to spend some $$ and act like a real NBA owner after Dunleavy's arrival. back in the day, Loy Vaught, Ken Norman and Brent Barry couldn't even get any extentions. I mean remember when Pike's $15 million deal was the largest in franchise history?

thing about brand, is he's still getting 111 million, brand would get 75 million, and the Wizards would trade Arenas for Brand in a second.....anyway, here's the latest from SF Chronicle, interesting, saying they might try to chose Maggete instead:

SF GATE:

....Brand remains the Warriors' No. 1 target, with money being the bait. The Clippers are limited to offering Brand a five-year contract at about $75 million if they renounce Brand's rights, as planned, to fit both him and Baron Davis under the salary cap.
Brand's agent, David Falk, could not be reached, though sources said the pair was in Philadelphia on Thursday hoping to lure the Sixers into the bidding. League sources said that Brand is ultimately expected to join Davis in Los Angeles.

Brand is doing some weird stuff. This does not seem like how to would act - at least based on my perception. If this is some charade to make it look good, and I don't see why they need it to look good really, it is way overblown and somewhat sophomoric. It is also dishonest to meet with a team when you have no intention of signing with them. I don't see Brand as being dishonest in the slightest so this has me puzzled. If you perceive that there is some issue with Brand talking to Baron then the solution is to shut yer mouth, not to go on some cover-up tour.

As an aside, my observation from games is that Brand and Maggette are as tight as can be but I believe Maggette was determined to get away from the Dunce, even knowing that he would be leaving his friend behind and taking in all liklihood less money. He knew there weren't any teams with space this year.

If true, that means the warrior have pretty much conceded the Brand issue and moving forward w/ plan B in Maggette. Brand would be helping his buddy Maggette in getting a contract more than the MLE from the Warriors.

Come on Brand, Please stay. I dont' think Davis would come if he couldn't play w/ Brand.

TW, thanks for attempting to be more civil here. Not that I am concerned about my feelings (or yours), but I find it more enjoyable to have a conversational drink with someone when we are drinking St Pauly Girl as opposed to Fallstaff.

As you were so kind to answer my questions, and you did a good job at attempting to answer them, here are my responses to yours.

Your first question asks why MD has a career losing record if he is a good businessman? Well, you are a businessman, right? If you brought in good employees to your company and you had a crappy manager, how would your business perform? I never said MD was a good coach, but that he should get credit for bringing good talent (defined as players who are better and paid more than typical Clipper players of the past). I said that he should be the GM, rather than Elgin (although he is probably already acting like one, as most good businessmen would).

As for his losing record, his record is over .500 aside from the Clippers even though he coached a lousy Bucks team. Only one Clipper coach has a better Clipper coaching record than MD and that's Larry Brown. Brown inherited a mid-season team that had a winning percentage of .470 and he only coached a total of 1.4 seasons before flying the nest (mainly because he knew he couldn't get DTS to commit to good players). MD took over a team left in shambles by AG and company with a winning percentage of only .330. MD increased the wins by an average of almost 9 games in each of his first 3 seasons while hitting the lotto of the second round in year 3. The next year they fell flat but were still one win away from .500 except they lost the last game of the season in a meaningless game. Brown was also .500 his second and final year, before he blew out of town without being able to persuade DTS to his point of view. As for last season, if you total up the injuries, it was a season doomed to failure regardless who the coach was.

TW, get with the program. MD = GM. Don't blab on about his X's and O's.

As for your second question about whether a $100 Clipper ticket is a performing asset or not, I never said it was and that was your decision to buy that ticket. I said that MD was a good businessman and he must have put out good enough players on the court to induce you to buy those $100 tickets. Personally, I think paying $100 for Clipper tickets is a rip off as I can buy great tickets on craigslist or ebay for way less and I have. I suppose you may also own overencumbered real estate in Riverside, too.

Gilbert Arenas has actually turned down the offer the Wizards gave him to take LESS money, so that the Wiz will have some money left over to sign another player or two! Can you imagine how foolish EB would look if he signs with GS, after that gesture by Arenas?

Jerdog, your myopic, cliche-riddled, defend MDSr at all costs posts are tiresome and very much like those of another former poster here.

Yes MDSr helped to open DTS' purse strings. That doesn't mean he's a good coach. You quote his general coaching record and record with the Clippers as proof that he's a good coach. These kinds of arguments, with all due respect, Jerdog, show only your lack of knowledge about the game of basketball.

First, MDSr has never won a championship, or even come close, or overachieved, with any team. While his career record may be over .500, I would suggest that you examine the teams he inherited that got him most of those victories - a great Lakers team and a great Blazers team. He chronically underachieved with that Blazers team in particular.

He also has a knack for making the wrong call in critical situations - not something you want from your $5 million per year coach (maybe you're ok with it, but I tend to demand more from highly paid employees).

His record with the Clippers also doesn't mean anything. Yes he's improved their record, but really that's not all that impressive given where they were. If your argument is that he's better than Alvin Gentry, well you haven't set the bar very high, have you.

MDSr is also an atrociously poor game manager who doesn't have a good reputation around the league in that regard. Have you ever watched the Clippers' plodding, predictable offense? He allows the players no creativity whatsoever - none - which not only makes for boring basketball, but also renders the game experience unnecessarily less than fun for all concerned. In my opinion, basketball is best when the players themselves are allowed to freelance and play creatively.

Hollinger is right on when he mentions the potential clash between BD and MDSr. I suspect that BD, before signing, obtained some sort of an agreement from MDSr that he would allow BD some flexibility.

Having said that, yes MDSr helped to open DTS' purse strings. And he may have played a role in the BD/EB signing. For that he should be commended. However, perhaps he should be kicked upstairs and a real coach hired to run the team he apparently helped to assemble.

I have a feeling Brand's agent is doing a lot of this, not Brand himself. I am a little surprised myself how this is playing out, but I will be happy to have Brand back. Hopefully Gilbert's decision will rub off on Brand and we can get this over with soon. I'd love a nice 4th of July announcement.

Jerdog, first off..Gentry's last year every single young player the Clips had with promise (EB, Corey, Odom, Miles and Richardson) all were playing for their first real non-rookie NBA contract. That's a recipe for disaster, and the season certainly played out that way. So if you are using this season as a measuring point, ya agree with Jax you are setting the bar incredibly low. It's also mis-guided.

Now back to the dunce and his career..he has 573 up and 625 down for a .478 win percentage. 4 of 5 seasons here have been on the losing end. All 3 of his seasons in Milwaukee were losing ones and when he's been given more talent, hell we'll even call it championship level talent..he's miserably under-achieved. The one flash of 'brilliance' he had with the Clips was more of a fluke reaching the second round than it was his genius. Not that I wouldn't have done the same thing, but the Clips sand-bagged to set up a series with Denver instead of Dallas, whom probably would have whipped the dunce. And then went on t lose to a PHX team that played 6 guys..with one of them being T2.

That's not what I would call coaching prowess over the length of his career, and certainly not worthy of being touted a genius businessman.

I see the dunce as nothing more than an opportune vulture whom is preying on the only franchise that's had less success than he's had over his not so illustrious career.

In terms of his personnel, I still don't like anything he's done save the absolutely exxsntial things like retain Brand and Maggs 5 years ago and Baron coming here now. You cannot argue the fact that he's missed a hell of alot more times than he's gotten things right with the personnel, and then when you couple that with his in-game defencies, he's just not very good at his job. I'd like to see someone in his position that will make more right decisions, and especially for the price of admittance to Clipper games at Stples.

That said, and although it'll be interesting to see how he and BD get along with their differing philosophies, I don't see the dunce messing this up too much. He's sure to blow his typical dunce share of close games no doubt, but let's be honest the Clips management is probably happy with Staples being full and being a Playoff contender. I suppose that's enough to keep me as a customer, but if the decision were mine..I would be aiming much higher than the dunce can bring us.

Jax, I don't disagree with your comments (the non-vindictive ones). I have said all along that MD should be GM and that we should get a better coach. I don't think he is a horrible coach, but I don't think he's that good either. In terms of Clipper history, he's good. In absolute terms, he's not.

So you agree that he has loosened up the purse strings? TW clings to his weak argument that it's all because of Staples then he gives some other BS argument as to why DTS gave MD $20 Mill. I can see that things are starting to lean in MD's favor at least as it relates to getting enough credit for talent to arrive and stay in Clipperland.

This is the main point I have been trying to make all along. That's my core assertion and support for MD. He may not pick the best talent, but it's not all his fault that he hasn't been able to get the best talent because of the Clipper legacy (a poor legacy). Getting the authorization to spend money from DTS is a necessary but insufficient condition to get talent. He got DTS to offer the money. Now, after improving the talent, the win/loss record, and losing culture of the Clippers, he's starting to get to top-level talent (Davis, EB)to come and stay.

I don't know whether I write poorly (that may be the case) or you guys need to take English 101 again (assuming you graduated from high school), but your continued rants about my arguing that MD is a some kind of brilliant coach is but a fiction of your own mind. His mediocre coaching is offset by his ability to get DTS to spend money, but his highest and best use with the Clippers would be at GM.

NO Jerdog, we are perfectly capable of understanding your misguided and awful dialect...you're just completely wrong (again) cause the dunce is far from a genius on any level, especially with regards to personnel. The fact that you still state that he's responsible for anything positive renders your arguments meaningless with me. Case closed..go back to your dunce laden hole and I will be here with the rest of us smart people. People like me still rule Staples during games, so keep your dunce hat on sitting in th cheap seasts cause you won't be able to affor lower bowls this year, dunce lover.

My 2¢ is that I'm somewhere in between you guys. Dunleavy frustrates the hell out of me at times, but I don't think he's an idiot. He's an experienced head coach that's been t the Finals. I actually think that Lakers team overachieved, but his time with the Blazers was a disaster. Thinking back, I feel he totally outcoached D'Antoni two years ago. The Suns had the better guys, but we should have that series. Now, the reason we didn't was a major coaching disaster, but if Phoenix didn't have 6 days of rest, we still beat them in game 7. I don't know that there are any better head coaching choices out there. I think Dunleavy is a very good playoffs coach and we have a team that can get to the playoffs, so anything can happen.

07/05/08 09:56:31

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