AdViewGlobal (AVG), an autosurf with close ties to AdSurfDaily, is getting more insidious by the hour.

An AVG forum set up by some of the Mods and members of ASD became a den of infighting among AVG members yesterday. One poster started a thread begging the Mods to intervene, which is to say the poster wanted the Mods to delete reasonable questions and criticism from other members about AVG’s operations.

The Mods complied. The thread had been titled “Moderators…please moderate this private forum!!”

At issue were slashed AVG payout rates after it had run a mind-boggling, 200-percent, matching bonus program for weeks — for both new members and their sponsors. AVG’s published payout rate yesterday was “only 0.056%,” according to posters.

Some AVG members said they expected much higher payout rates. The mere fact that autosurfs promise or suggest a return, however, is problematic. Regulators view the surfs as sellers of unregistered securities disguised as advertising programs.

The return is one of the central issues in the case against ASD — and has been the central issue in all previous autosurf prosecutions, including the CEP Ponzi scheme. The government long has been wise to the wink-nod nature of the business model and attempts by operators and promoters to sanitize it by drafting participants into a verbal conspiracy and scolding people for not using precise language to sustain the deception.

ASD President Andy Bowdoin said he went through $800,000 in his bid to claim tens of millions of dollars seized by the government last August. Now, months later, Bowdoin still is facing litigation by the government on three fronts, and a racketeering lawsuit filed by ASD members seeking class-action status.

Attempts to force autosurf participants to use specific phrasing — such as insisting the word “advertsing” be used instead of “investing” — are commonplace. The attempts alone show consciousness of guilt. The wink-nod nature further is exposed through deletions of posts that don’t adhere to the company line.

Deletions often are defended as an attempt to keep the company discussions “positive.” Regardless, it’s easy to view them as bids to force everybody to lie in the name of the company, so the deception can continue. Virtually all autosurfs operate as Ponzi schemes.

Also at issue at the AVG forum yesterday was a pattern of confusing information from the company.

AVG announced the sudden resignation of Chief Executive Officer Gary Talbert March 20; Talbert is a former ASD executive. On March 23, the surf announced its bank account had been suspended. Problems with eWalletPlus.com, a money-exchanger, followed. One AVG member now says the company was using a U.S. bank, despite promoting itself as an “offshore” opportunity.

Banking problems led to the demise of ASD.

In late March, Shad Foss, an autosurf promoter against whom the receiver in the CEP Ponzi scheme case sought to claw back ill-gotten gains, sent an email to promote AVG. The email advised prospects that $5,000 in AVG would turn into $15,000 “instantly!”

ASD once advertised that it accepted CEP Trust, the failed payment processor run by the operators of the CEP Ponzi scheme.

On Tuesday, two payment processors used by AVG — SolidTrustPay of Canada and StrictPay of Panama — were offline for hours. Both surfs simultaneously were experiencing the same problem: the inability to load secure pages. Why the problem was occurring is unclear.

What is clear is that such disruptions demonstrate just how vulnerable surfs are to unexpected events. AVG is behaving like an operation starved for cash. It is having management, banking and payment-processing problems simultaneously — while still running bonus promotions.

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to “AdViewGlobal: More Insidious By The Hour”

Of course AVG is a Ponzi. Couldn’t be more clear. I have to say I am aligned with Pistol on this one — virtually anyone (with a few exceptions I suppose) who joins AVG given all the available information on AVG and ASD deserves to lose every nickel they put into this scam. btw, even “only 0.056%” as you put in quotes translates to 15.7% annually, still WAY above current market rates of return…..so even that “LOW RATE OF RETURN” should raise huge red flags….

It’s hard to imagine that the government, which is attempting to set up a process for ASD members to get refunds as the victims of a crime, is going to show much sympathy toward people who didn’t learn from their ASD experience and went right ahead and leaped into AVG.

And yes, 15.7 percent — that’s a Madoff-like Ponzi number — and AVG participants, while insisting it’s an ad company, are complaining about “low” returns.

Entertained: Patrick,Of course AVG is a Ponzi.Couldnâ€™t be more clear.I have to say I am aligned with Pistol on this one â€” virtually anyone (with a few exceptions I suppose) who joins AVG given all the available information on AVG and ASD deserves to lose every nickel they put into this scam. btw, even â€œonly 0.056%â€ as you put in quotes translates to 15.7% annually, still WAY above current market rates of returnâ€¦..so even that â€œLOW RATE OF RETURNâ€ should raise huge red flagsâ€¦.

Which doesn’t mean, in case any of the “investors” are unaware, that the principal will increase by 15.7% per annum. It simply means that it will take about eight years to get your money back plus 25%.

BTW virtually anyone (with a few exceptions I suppose) who joined ASD given all the available information on 12DP and CEP etc at the time, deserves to lose every nickel they put into this scam.

All of these scams operate in the same way. Different names, some with added bells and whistles but beneath the veneer they are all the same. Seen one, seen them all. All of the info that is out there now was readily available long before the emergence of ASD. All it takes is a little more common sense and a little less greed.

Good point! I always forget that return of capital element. I suspect that it is possible that the AVG investors just might have a small challenge withdrawing their capital…..especially after 8 years or so…… I give it a billion to one AVG will be around in 8 years, and one to a billion that 8 years from notw that there will be at least one internet Ponzi scheme still open to new investors…..

Which doesnâ€™t mean, in case any of the â€œinvestorsâ€ are unaware, that the principal will increase by 15.7% per annum. It simply means that it will take about eight years to get your money back plus 25%…….

I do know that your ad expired after making 25% with ASD, no matter how many days it took, but doesn’t AVG do something like 150days before that ad expires? So with that rate of return people will be paying out money for there advertising. OH my god, paying for advertising, now thats an idea!!
By the way. isn’t this what happen with Noobling? anyone knows how that one is doing?

Actually, 15% a year is possible. I was checking the historical unit prices on the policy that (might) pay off my mortgage. From 2003 to 2005 the unit price increased by 30% – that’s 15% per year on average. So AVG must be real right?

No of course it isn’t. 2003 was the bottom of the last recession, the following years showed greater than normal growth. We are currently in the depths of a recession and there is no way that anything can give 15% a year. Not even “advertising”.

Madoff funds were a ponzi because because he “generated” high returns in the good times and the bad times.

That’s how you create a massive Ponzi (like Madoff), with barely believeable rates of return (like 15%). The fast HYIP Ponzi’s don’t last 10 years and stay small (like ASD and its ilk). No way you can get enough people to believe that 20% per month is “real”, which is required in order to get massive. 15% per year is another story…..

Tony H: Actually, 15% a year is possible. I was checking the historical unit prices on the policy that (might) pay off my mortgage. From 2003 to 2005 the unit price increased by 30% – thatâ€™s 15% per year on average. So AVG must be real right?No of course it isnâ€™t. 2003 was the bottom of the last recession, the following years showed greater than normal growth. We are currently in the depths of a recession and there is no way that anything can give 15% a year. Not even â€œadvertisingâ€.Madoff funds were a ponzi because because he â€œgeneratedâ€ high returns in the good times and the bad times.

Entertained: In regard to your statement: No way you can get enough people to believe that 20% per month is â€œrealâ€, which is required in order to get massive; that is not true. Actually over 350,000 people believed they could obtain 2% per day “compounded” over a six month period of time, or put another way over 14,400% return on an annual basis. That was the promise, and they bought it. There would have been more, but it got raided and shut down before even more could join. There were several others who promised 30% per month, some 60% per month, and I could name even more bizarre rates of return that thousands of people joined believing it was possible and real. So what Andy and all the clones are promising are chump change to these other programs; which makes people believe they are real.

I suppose it’s an order of magnitude thing but I agree with you. Madoff was perhaps 500 times larger than ASD, and likely at least 100 times as large. In that context, ASD was not “massive”…..

Lynndel Edgington: Entertained: In regard to your statement: No way you can get enough people to believe that 20% per month is â€œrealâ€, which is required in order to get massive; that is not true. Actually over 350,000 people believed they could obtain 2% per day â€œcompoundedâ€ over a six month period of time, or put another way over 14,400% return on an annual basis. That was the promise, and they bought it. There would have been more, but it got raided and shut down before even more could join. There were several others who promised 30% per month, some 60% per month, and I could name even more bizarre rates of return that thousands of people joined believing it was possible and real. So what Andy and all the clones are promising are chump change to these other programs; which makes people believe they are real.

The most absurd rates of return that caught my eye in the past, oh, 6 months without being cash gifting/cash leveraging schemes would have been Premium Compounder (11.06% daily), and E-Tek Solutions (promises of 300% ROI in a maximum of 40 days). The gifters went far beyond even those levels of absurd.

I like your writing. I really do. It’s unfortunate that your talents are being wasted on this exausted subject. You are really reaching with this one.

It would be nice if you were a little less assumptive in your approach to AVGA. This article has several inaccuracies. I suspect you already know that. The truth is much less sensational. The mods did not pull down the discussion. I started it and I stopped it. It was unnecessary. All the questions asked by suspect members on this unofficial AVGA forum were answered, yet they are asked over and over again. They were not deleted by the mods to protect AVGA.

I don’t want to debate you or other people stating opinions here. I just don’t want your inaccurate attack on the forum moderators to go unchallenged. You sometimes do not know what you are talking about…yet you spew on.

CORRECTION!: All the questions asked by suspect members on this unofficial AVGA forum were answered, yet they are asked over and over again. They were not deleted by the mods to protect AVGA.

It strikes me as odd that you would call AVG members “suspect members.” And so what if they have questions?

There are very good reasons to ask questions about AVG — namely, the family, management and promoter’s ties to ASD, which is alleged to have engaged in wire fraud, money-laundering and the sale of unregistered securities, all while operating a $100 million Ponzi scheme.

Just today an email went out making vague promises about future income AVG streams. Of course, revenue streams also were an issue with ASD.

“There are very good reasons to ask questions about AVG â€” namely, the family, management and promoterâ€™s ties to ASD, which is alleged to have engaged in wire fraud, money-laundering and the sale of unregistered securities, all while operating a $100 million Ponzi scheme.”

Key word Patrick…alledged!! Maybe you have an inside source that knows exactly what will happen with ASD. Someone who knows exactly how the Judge will rule. Who knows the “real Andy Bowdoin”. Who can see into the future. Patrick, truth is, NOBODY KNOWS…NO ONE!!!

Back TO AVGA which is processing purchases and payouts through STP and Strict Pay, has expert management in place, is currently rebuilding ewallettplus, and is resolving the banking issues you mentioned. I’m not sure what “vague” means. AVGA, and I’m not their spokesperson, IS developing outside revenue sources, even though it has not been determined that they are indeed necessary.

As for the “suspect members” you know exactly what I mean. Tag teams often ask negative questions and stir trouble on otherwise helpful and positive forums. I am not confident that “tag-teaming” is not going on here. All the member has to do is ask their upline to clarify these obvious questions.

Finally…Patrick…I really do enjoy your writing. You are really very good at this. I hope in time your writing talents are used for something more useful than bringing down associations like AVGA. For now, in my opinion, your talents are not being fully realized. You deserve to be read by massive audiences, not just the Scam.com choir of self-proclaimed ASD experts. Thank you!

I really look forward to your retraction series when this saga is resolved. In the meantime, I think you must now be in the Guiness Book of Records for the most uses of the word “alledged” in pursuit of a predetermined outcome. It should be great reading Patrick. I just hope you can be fair and balanced and accurate and still attract visitors to your web site. Sadly, I’m not at all confident that is possible. The truth is much less sensational than allegations, speculation, conjecture and whatever else attracks a mob/choir to preach to. Ah well, such is the state of journalism in the blogosphere. Until this is resolved please be well…and be fair. Thank you very much. Opps…I forgot accurate.

A very well thought out post. I am not an expert on ASD, but I am an expert on the mathematical analysis of businesses, and ASD is mathematically demonstratable to be unsustainable without VERY significant external sources of revenue (see the column on the Black Box modelling in this blog). Similarly, AVG has been demonstarted to be mathematically unsustainable without the large external sources of revenue. I am afraid that that is not an opinion, any more than 1+1=2 is not an opinion. The burning issue for AVG is, does it REALLY have external sources of revenue sufficient to pay the rebates? I am afraid that if you, or more importantly, the promoters/insiders of AVG, cannot offer verifiable proof of said external revenue then AVG will be what many suspect it will be — an unsustainable business model that pays old members with new members money. In the government’s eyes, that’s a Ponzi scheme. A wider audience need only understand the mathematics of AVG, and then ask for proof of the external revenue. Without the proof, and to date there is none, then only those wishing to be scammed (or to be the early entrant winners in a scam) will join AVG.

CORRECTION, can you rise to a high ethical level by offering proof of such large external revenue? If so, sign me up as your down line……if not, people can rightly view your letter as promoting what has all of the earmarks of a Ponzi scheme. You can change the minds of EVERYONE who reads this if you do show the external revenue. It’s really quite simple. Bowdoin could have done the same thing at any of multiple junctures, and all of this nasty court thing would get tossed out. Problem is, he can’t…..can you????

CORRECTION: Admin,You saidâ€¦â€œ……AVGA, and Iâ€™m not their spokesperson, IS developing outside revenue sources, even though it has not been determined that they are indeed necessary……….

Thanks for the compliment. We’ll just have to see what the next few months have to offer regarding ASD and AVGA. You may be a believer too some day. Good night…I’m tired of all this conflict. I’m gonna go watch a ballgame.

All this talk of “belief” seems very out of place when speaking about a business. AVGA purports to be a business, and, more so, an advertising business.

Legitimate businesses are viable or not viable. It is rarely necessary to “believe in them” or “disbelieve in them”. They have proprietors, management, business plans, products that stand or fall on their value for money, demand and of course, legality.

If one buys advertising from a print publication or an online venue, or in any other medium, one looks at the sales conversions from that advertising, and the value of marketing ones product or service through them. One does not “believe” in them. Stastics show if the advertising is bringing attention and sales.

Equally, if there are advertising incentives or even rebates, there will have to be demonstrable outside revenue to support the rebates before an advertiser can take the risk of becoming involved with a ponzi scheme AND there will still have to be demonstrable advertising benefits, if the scheme is not simply a cover up for an unregistered securities operation.

All anyone has ever asked of AVGA is that they demonstrate, with supporting data (a) that it is a genuine advertising vehicle whose primary object is to obtain recognition and sales for their advertisers AND (b) that any incentives or rebates paid to advertisers are fully covered by revenue other than new advertising money.

It is not a question of belief or disbelief that leads people to ask these questions. It is the (surprising) refusal of the company and its participants to answer the questions and provide the information that is being asked that gives it the insiduous image that is talked about here – NOT the questions.

Please note the standard reply of CORRECTION to the simple question of external revenue. The standard reply from people promoting scams is to not answer the question. CORRECTION did not answer the question, for good reason…..he/she cannot. This behavioral pattern repeats indefinitely.

alasycia: All anyone has ever asked of AVGA is that they demonstrate, with supporting data (a) that it is a genuine advertising vehicle whose primary object is to obtain recognition and sales for their advertisers AND (b) that any incentives or rebates paid to advertisers are fully covered by revenue other than new advertising money.

Exactly, Entertained. That is what makes it all the more surprising that they should be offended if their business is not treated as a serious legitimate one. If they wish to be treated as business professionals, then they need to behave like them and not ask people to “believe” in a business.

Belief relates to religions, philosphies,emotions and other intangibles. Business viability and legality relates to numbers and facts.

alasycia: All anyone has ever asked of AVGA is that they demonstrate, with supporting data (a) that it is a genuine advertising vehicle whose primary object is to obtain recognition and sales for their advertisers AND (b) that any incentives or rebates paid to advertisers are fully covered by revenue other than new advertising money.

That is all anyone ever asked of ASD and the multitude of similar scams that went before it. Needless to say no one ever received it but that didn’t stop people from joining and luring others into joining their downlines. Shame on those who refused to see the obvious in order to line their own pockets.

Believe in a business to make it work? Faith huh? Wow, the level of stupidity among these people is unreal. Why do they keep coming here and drawing more attention to their illegal business? I’m at a loss for words.

CORRECTION!: Patrick,I like your writing. I really do. Itâ€™s unfortunate that your talents are being wasted on this exausted subject. You are really reaching with this one. It would be nice if you were a little less assumptive in your approach to AVGA. This article has several inaccuracies. I suspect you already know that. The truth is much less sensational. The mods did not pull down the discussion. I started it and I stopped it. It was unnecessary. All the questions asked by suspect members on this unofficial AVGA forum were answered, yet they are asked over and over again. They were not deleted by the mods to protect AVGA. I donâ€™t want to debate you or other people stating opinions here. I just donâ€™t want your inaccurate attack on the forum moderators to go unchallenged. You sometimes do not know what you are talking aboutâ€¦yet you spew on.

Correction: I want to thank you for the best laugh I have had in a long time. I really needed this after a short night and a very long day. I do wish you well, but I think you are in for a very rude surprise. Based on events that have been transpiring, I think that will be rather soon.

Since you are all so good at predicting the future, please tell us when the recession will end, when the wars will end, and when the Lord will come? I want to stay ready. Oh..and what will be the final outcome with ASD and the future of AVGA. Truth is…you can’t and neither can I or anyone else. Sorry folks…you do not know and you are being asked here and now to admit it! As I said to Patrick there must have been a new record set recently for the most uses of the word “alledged” in pursuit of a predetermined outcome in the ASD case. Just be fair and accurate is all I ask. That is not always the case, which is why I sent my message to Patrick. You folks are off the mark constantly…yet you too spew on.

We agreed to disagree. Unfortunately some people here choose to laugh at me and I don’t like that. I meant what I said about your writing, and I know from this point on you will think twice before assuming anything in print. Thank you!

CORRECTION: Mr Edgington and friends,Since you are all so good at predicting the future, please tell us when the recession will end, when the wars will end, and when the Lord will come? I want to stay ready. Oh..and what will be the final outcome with ASD and the future of AVGA.Truth isâ€¦you canâ€™t and neither can I or anyone else.Sorry folksâ€¦you do not know and you are being asked here and now to admit it! As I said to Patrick there must have been a new record set recently for the most uses of the word â€œalledgedâ€ in pursuit of a predetermined outcome in the ASD case.Just be fair and accurate is all I ask.That is not always the case, which is why I sent my message to Patrick.You folks are off the mark constantlyâ€¦yet you too spew on.

With all due respect, you cannot be naive enough to believe your own prose. Have you ever watched a television newscast or read a newspaper? Alleged is how reporters report what other people, including prosecutors, are saying about someone unless the facts have been established.

On another note, Roxy is reporting at the Business Zone that Ning has no intention of responding to any state subpoena which does not originate in California.

In regard to my finding what you wrote funny, and since you have taken umbrage to my finding it so, here is what I found funny. You start out by telling Patrick how much you admire his writing style (compliment given), and then you tell him all the things you don’t like about his writing style(compliment taken away).

Had you bothered to seperate your two points of view in two different posts, it would not have been as comical to me as it was. Until you have been called Satan, a dark Christian, Evil, Hitler, Stalin, a destroyer of hopes and dreams, a rapist, and those are just the ones I can mention; your being upset at being laughed at pales in comparison to real name calling and insults. It is called the Internet.

Not everyone is going to think you are a genius because you believe that AVG, or any of the other ASD clones, are legitimate. AVG is not the first, nor will it be the last, to come along and promise the moon, they are different, they are here to stay, and all the other malarkey they have stated. If you want to believe it, that is your right. But don’t expect the rest of us to blindly accept their mantra as you have. We have been there, done that, shut them down, and know when someone is blowing smoke and sucking air.

If AVG is all they claim to be, then why can’t anyone post the sources of their outside revenue streams? They are registered offshore, but use a bank in the U.S. They have their banking privileges taken away, and they have to resort to payment processors. A major red flag. If they are so “legit” why all the secrecy and hiding? If they are all they claim to be, who are the people who formed AVG? Providing that information makes all of us who don’t buy what they are selling go away. I am man enough to admit I am wrong if they can answer all my questions and prove me wrong. Somehow, I don’t think the people behind AVG are willing to take that challenge, and therein is the proof this is all smoke and mirrors and sucking air.

I don’t need the NTSB to tell me that an airplane has crashed. The NTSB will tell me why the airplane crashed. Until then it is “alleged” as to what caused the plane to crash.

The truth be told, you probably believe that ASD was and is legal; the evil government shut down a perfectly legal company; all ASD members are terrorists according to the government; Andy was a genius, astute businessman, and a visionary; and as a consumer you have the right to contract with anyone you choose.

Sorry if I hurt your feelings, but feelings and belief don’t cut it. All the people who support AVG do is talk in circles deflecting hard questions, and not answering any of them. But please be the first to do so.

Any retun you get from your ADVERTISEMENT dollars is better than nothing IF you are yourself concerned about the advertisement and not the return. A lot of people are on there just for the return. If this was google who shared 50% of their corporate revenue with their members nobody would even think twice to join into that.

The government can’t return the funds back to “Honest” Andy because it is alleged to be the result of illegal activity. If the judge rules that the money is not the result of wire fraud etc, it could be returned back to Andy. He could then go back to spending his money on nice cars, houses etc.

If the judge does not rule in Andy’s favour, Andy’s money could be distributed back to the suckers who sent him the money. It’s taking longer than necessary because the Arby Indians & Co, and Andy keep filing odd motions. This is what is delaying the judgement.

Or it could be the blood-sucking reptile aliens, who control the evil government, using their insidious mind control techniques to stop the judge from making a decision. The aliens need the money to buy gold to fuel their spaceship. The aliens have seen the state of the world economy and have decided to leave earth and are buying up all the gold they can. Why do you think the price of gold has risen? It’s all a conspiracy!

Larry and Sergey are just a tad smarter than to share 50% of their revenue with total strangers. They started a real company, with real upfront capital invested, and developed a sustainable business model, as opposed to Mr. Bowdoin, who stole the idea for an unsustainable Ponzi scheme (and executed THAT reasonably well, for a while). They did not steal money from unsuspected victims, nor did they encourage the Ponzi players to bring in more victims. Further, they actually have real advertisers, not a small group of folks who surf each other’s web sites (most of which didn’t offer a real product). Real advertisers with real ad budgets who were interested in selling real products — there’s a difference.

James Reichhelt: …..If this was google who shared 50% of their corporate revenue with their members nobody would even think twice to join into that.

…..well, if there is nothing to hide…..use your own previous example. It was extremely well known that Sergey Brin and Larry Page were the founders of Google, early on. Similarly with Gates and Allen. Hiding your identity only raises questions, and since one can show mathematically that AVG is unsustainable, and undoubtably the names behind AVG are the same tired old Ponzi players we’ve seen before, I am guessing that there’s a good reason the names aren’t easily known. The dolts supporting AVG KNOW that if the names get ot and are widely spread, no new suckers will join AVG (or at least fewer will).

As to the government not providing reasons why they seized the assets, I’ll have to assume that you did NOT read the very first government complaint in court. The government has sufficiently strong evidence that Bowdoin ran an illegal Ponzi scheme that a District Court no less has approved the seizure. Further, your god has failed to disprove even a single item of the government’s asset seizure case, when “saint” Andy could have had the whole matter tossed out in a nanosecond had he been able to demonstrate legitimacy, most easily by showing external sources of revenue. As this has gone on, the government has not had to change their initial stance one iota. Andy and his team have been humilated in court thus far, not the least of which was 1) Andy’s petition in January where he asked the court to allow him to drop the challenge to the seizure & never pursue the matter again (and by the way, the court ruled in Andy’s favor on that motion, so they’re not always against him), and 2) In 100% contradiction to his previous motion, your false god stated in his filing under oath that ASD WAS an illegal enterprise, but that since he didn’t know it was illegal, he should get his money back (again nonewithstanding that he earlier asked the court to please NOT allow him to pursue the money ever again).

So tell me James, this is the man you idolize? …and too, you idolize his AVG successors?

James Reichhelt: Also.. Why do you need to know who the president of the company is? As you know it is a new company and most new companyâ€™s do not divulge that information until needed. But please tell me why the government canâ€™t give one reason to why they canâ€™t return the funds because they cannot find a legitimate reason to why they took the money in the first place.