States such as Florida and undoubtedly a few others have dropped these unaccredited degree laws...as they are blatantly unconstitutional...this is a fact without equivocation. I, like everyone else, would like nothing better then to see flagrant "diploma mills", such as rocheville u. and balfour u. get shut down. These are not schools at all, and everyone knows they are mills...Bear and his cronies never "hack" on these phony schools, they get a free pass. These three "clowns" chose to attack the good schools that were the competition... the legal, valid, academically sound, unaccredited schools. Accreditation is not the mechanism that makes a school legal, not even necessarily good. The mechanism that makes a school legal and valid and able to offer degree programs, is the oversight that the individual states give to the school. Theoretically, a CA. State Approved School, should be the very last school that is scrutinized by these "clowns", as they are undoubtedly legal and valid...in fact legal and valid in any state in the union! When challenged, states such as Oregon, Florida and Texas have lost in court, vainly attempting to uphold these ridiculous, unconstitutional laws, that clearly are in violation of the 1st and 10th amendment. States such as North Dakota, Michigan, Indiana and Washington have altered and/or modified their state laws concerning legal, valid state approved schools...even CHEA recognizes state approved schools as legal, and valid. It gets redundant even readdressing this nonsense! I called a number of these states and spoke to the personnel that are in a position too articulate these laws...believe me, they are for the most part either clueless or "last man on the totem pole", when it comes to getting accurate data, as it pertains to addressing the use of unaccredited, albeit legal, valid degrees and the use by the holders of these academic credentials.

(12-30-2012, 12:55 AM)bigfoot Wrote: Undoubtedly, Contrerass knows that his little masquerade as an authority on distance education and accreditation has been exposed. His prattling has grown strangely silent, since his retirement...must be all that "ornithology" he's been up too...rotflmao! CA State Approval has become very difficult to acquire...just ask those who have failed...like Breyer State...and many others.

I tend to believe that Contreras, Bear, Golin and their ilk have one thing in common and thats that they have dilusions of self importance. They really do not have any actual authority but due to their alleged expertise, they feel that they have the right or the duty to open their pie holes and yap about what they believe to be true.

They have been partially successful at destroying a number of unaccredited schools. Some of them are Diploma Mills in the truest sense and others are just schools which, by choice or by circumstances had never been accredited.

Now they have a problem. They are victims of their own success. Most of their targets are out of business or succeeded in getting their accreditition. So does the world still need George Golin, Al or John? They try to keep relevent but they are speaking to empty rooms. Nobody gives a shit anymore.

My guess is that they these scoundrils will fade out of the spotlight and wither and die like a plant that does not get sunlight.

I agree, the Bearasites have pretty much destroyed most of the very small sincere state licensed schools. You know, the very ones Bear said were good enough. Why anyone would give a damn what they are now saying is beyond me. The damage is done so why not give it a rest. But no, they must go on. I guess it's too much to ask to just have them take the victory lap and go away.

I really enjoyed reading the literature from the very small schools, often located in homes or small buildings. To think Bear once said they were just fine as long as they operated legally and were doing things right.

Here is what I think. If a school had reasonable requirements, operated legally, and if it met the needs and wants of the student, it was GOOD ENOUGH. Legality is something that John Bear has always misunderstood. It doesn't mean that you can ignore it when you want to and accept it when you will. He tried to use the law to prove himself right no matter what side of the argument he was taking. A legally operating school that met the requirements of students who chose to use the school should not have been chased and hounded out of business. They did it very simply. Bear and wrecking crew just screamed mill-mill-mill over and over. That crap quickly covered the internet. Whenever a potential student tried to look up one of these small schools, BOOM, there it was. Statement after statement by the gang screaming mill. Over a few years the number of students dropped. Hell, they were scared away by gossip, lies and phoney horror stories. Once that crap gets on the internet it grows like a cancer. And so passes the unaccredited schools. Killed of by morons who don't have a clue as to the wonderful diversity they killed off.

I have always felt that the state of California should have sought to have their BPPE/Dept. of Consumer affair-status recognized by the Dept. Of Ed. in Washington. The state of New York, State Dept. of Ed. is recognized as a valid accreditor, with the same recognition and status that WASC and all the others enjoy. Clearly, this state agency that provides academic oversight to it's "state approved" institutions, is on par with New York, and should have the same rights, privileges and government recognition that "ALL" the RA schools enjoy! State Approval in California is rigorous and not a slam dunk by any stretch of the imagination...and it's only become more stringent since it's redevelopment and inception in 09.

(06-07-1970, 11:53 AM)jamesc1 Wrote: Legality is something that John Bear has always misunderstood.

He understands it fine, he just chooses to ignore it.

(06-07-1970, 11:53 AM)jamesc1 Wrote: A legally operating school that met the requirements of students who chose to use the school should not have been chased and hounded out of business.

The fact that Klempner still has intact kneecaps demonstrates the civility of the school operators. If they were anywhere near the scumbags he claimed they would have put a permanent end to his Alinsky tactics years ago.

When you consider the legally operating schools that Bear helped to destroy it is really a miracle that someone didn't go Bear hunting. I suppose some creeps never get what they deserve. But as the famous movie says "Deserve ain't got nothing to do with it."

If a student wants to get a lot of bang for the buck, they should attend a California Community College...they used to be free, if you were a resident of the state. The only thing you payed for was a registration fee and your textbooks...it was an affordable and outstanding way to acquire a "certificate" or AA/AS diploma, or transfer credential. Still, the CCC's offer a relatively inexpensive education, which is transferable to a Cal State or UC school, upon completion, or you could enter the work force, with an academic certificate, or just choose to become personally enriched by the affordable college education/experience. Sadly, community colleges have become a "way-station" to nowhere, for "ding-bat" students who need to take remedial courses in bonehead math and English! Course work they should have mastered, prior to graduating from a California public high school. This is one facet of the community colleges that has proven to be an economic drain on a once outstanding educational system, that was instrumental in being the largest provider of post secondary education in the nation! Look... if a person couldn't cut it in high-school...maybe school just isn't their thing. I have met many older adults who have pursued the state approved bachelors degree, upon completion of an aa degree, from a junior college. For many working adults it is a sound, affordable and realistic educational experience, without the burden of long hours away from family commitments, and is usually a lot easier on the pocket book.

The community colleges offer degrees that should go further than they do. Here in my state it appears that it takes a Master's just to teach 5th grade history. It's a shame that the folks in charge don't open more state licensed jobs to the graduates of the community colleges. They have been in school for 16 years (counting pre-school). It should mean more.

Too many kids go the community college route just to avoid work for another two years. Maybe if the degree opened more doors more would go through.