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0-60

0-60

Submitted by stevenroglen on Thu, 2017-09-07 17:16

When they announced the 0-60 times I didn't think much of it. Today I was stopped in my Sonata at a red light and was like "let's time this 0-60". Needless to say I stopped at 10 seconds and didn't think anything of it. Half that time in the M3 is going to be sweeeeeeeeeet.

mntlvr23 |
7 september 2017

@Steve - I did that also in both my Camry Hybrid and my Volvo S60 (old and not turbo). I don't remember the times, but neither were very impressive.

Frank99 |
7 september 2017

For another exciting one, someday when you're cruising down the freeway in light traffic, stomp the pedal to the floor and see how long it is before there's any acceleration. It's about 2 seconds in my Civic as the transmission shifts down, and the motor thinks about maybe, sometime, sucking some more gas and starting to accelerate. It will be sweeeeeet when that time...is zero.

KP in NPT |
7 september 2017

My first production Model 3 will be faster than our Model S70D - which is plenty fast. It makes my Lexus IS250 seem like a wet noodle.

CraigW |
7 september 2017

KP +1

stevenroglen |
8 september 2017

I'm going to test drive a Model S on the 23rd and I'm sure when i get back in my car it will feel like slow motion.

slasher0016 |
8 september 2017

Compared to "normal" cars 5.1 will feel ridiculous. But it's not blazing fast. My Audi does 0-60 in 4.4 secs. Now with that being said, I test drove a Model S that does 0-60 in 4.2 in it felt faster (because of the initial 0-30 is much faster.) Guess it's wait and see on the Model 3 for me. I'm confident it'll feel faster to 30, but not sure about 60.

jordanrichard |
8 september 2017

Published 0-60 times told tell the whole story. A Ferrari has a faster 0-60 time than my S85, but I guarantee you that at a light, without the Ferrari going through all the steps to go into launch mode, once the light turns green, I will be the Ferrari to the speed limit.

JayInJapan |
8 september 2017

Drove the wife's hybrid last weekend--the wait for the car to do anything after I pushed the accelerator was excruciating.

LostInTx |
8 september 2017

I ran the same test with my 2004 Tundra and was surprised that 0 -60 was just a shade over 7 seconds.

The braking was sufficiently good that I was able to slow down fast enough to pull into a gas station to replenish the gas used in my 0 - 60 test.

phil |
10 september 2017

I suspect 95% of those who buy the model 3 will marvel at its acceleration regardless of what car they come from. In real-world driving, the zero lag on the accelerator will be markedly more useful than the acceleration once the drivetrain is in full-on "go" mode.

tas |
10 september 2017

I used to have a MY03 WRX. And it was around high 5s or 6. Now a 7-yo BWM 135i which is good for around 5.1s claimed. So that's how you may imagine how quick the base and range extended ones are.

carlk |
10 september 2017

Have you ever heard passengers in a 5.1 second ICE car, or even a 4.1 second ICE car, giggling? People do even in those original 6.0 second Model S. It's hard to explain until you have driven an EV. My 4.9 second Porsche felt like it's struggling when I punched the pedal compares to even a 6.0 second model S.

Haggy |
12 september 2017

It's not the 0-60 that makes you feel it but the 0-30 that makes you feel it.

carlk |
12 september 2017

Or more precisely 0-1 or 2 second. How the car respond the moment you punched the pedal. The 0-60 everyone likes to use is so misleading if you use it to compare a Tesla and a conventional car.

Tropopause |
12 september 2017

0-60 is a measurement of time. In daily driving we measure in distance. The advantage of a BEV (Tesla) is that the Tesla will be further down the road than an ICE car with the same 0-60 time rating. Thus a 5 second Tesla will beat a 5 second ICE and rather be more comparable to a 4 second ICE.

PhillyGal |
13 september 2017

Oh the car's acceleration will blow your minds both from 0 and more importantly, while already driving. Things like merging onto a highway or passing a truck are amazing.

Our lowly S85, which is 1.4 seconds slower to 60 than the current 75D, which is cheaper (and an amazing deal!), feels like a roller coaster. You don't actually go 0-60 a lot. You go 0-40, 40-60, etc. That's where it really shines.

PhillyGal |
13 september 2017

Side note: if I were ordering today - yet had the knowledge I do from owning one - I'd order the RWD 75.
Built with similar specs to my 2014 S85, it's $9k cheaper with only 15 fewer miles of rated range but 1.3 second quicker to 60.

stevenroglen |
13 september 2017

@PG That's great to know that merging will be better. I hate the feeling of putting the pedal down a little harder, feeling the delay then the car kicking in to merge/pass. I'm excited for my test drive in 10 days (but who's counting?) and I'm ready to see what these cars are all about.

jordanrichard |
13 september 2017

I tell people all the time that though my S85 has a slower "0-60" time of say a new Ferrari, I will still beat them off the line to the speed limt. What most people don't know is that those published 0 - 60 times are not real world. First the engines are warmed up, the gear boxes are warmed up, use a professional driver, wait for a certain time of day and lastly use launch control.

Back to the real world, sitting at a light a Ferrari even if not using launch control would have to be revving the engine in anticipation of the light turning green, which in of its self is "prepping" the car. A real world comparison/race would be the Ferrari sitting their at idle like we do in our Tesla's and see you gets the drop...........

dave.m.mcdonough |
13 september 2017

My little turbo project car is actually kinda quick, can rip it to over 60 in 3~4 and still be in just 2nd gear. But outside of on-ramps and autocross events, all that power isn't usable in a practical way. I'm done hitting the gas by the time the turbos even spool up if it's on a street.. It really doesn't take much to go 40mph.

But, as others have said, the Tesla will feel faster with all of the low-end torque, and in MOST situations will actually BE faster. The power arrangement is way more practical.

The thing I'm looking most forward to is the instant throttle response, and lack of transmission to lag things up. Even just the mechanical slop between the engine, trans, diff, and axles all adds to enough to notice if you run with a stiffer bushing setup. I won't miss any of it.

PhillyGal |
13 september 2017

@jordanrichard - Yes!! Those published 0-60 times are pro drivers and even they have multiple runs to perfectly shift.

@PG, worst case mine would cost a marriage, but I know the S (new) is out of range for me and it's nice to have that mindset. Now a CPO on the other hand... haha

burdogg |
13 september 2017

Completely second PhillyGal on the passing etc.. aspect. The 0-60 is rarely used, but the highway passing is used all the time for me. That is my favorite part when letting others drive my car. Is to get them at 40 mph, and then telling them to floor it. That is when the real fun begins and they are blown away. Then I tell them to do it at 60 mph and they are still amazed it has almost the same feel as at the 40 mph - instant and FAST. This is in my lowly 70D 0-60 of 5.2 :)

carlk |
13 september 2017

I do this everyday to merge from slow traffic into the HOV lane. There is no freaking way I could do it this effortlessly with an ICE car including the Porsche I used to have. I likely would have a few wrecks already but thankfully I could not use the HOV lane with my Porsche.

andy.connor.e |
13 september 2017

I can go from 0-moron in under 5.5s

jacroseiii |
13 september 2017

I'm having a hard time understanding how a car can get to 0-60 in a shorter distance but a longer amount of time, can someone help me understand this?

carlk |
13 september 2017

Yes. Let's say you're racing a Tesla and a BMW both have 5 second 0-60. The Tesla will take a very large lead in the first 1 or 2 second and lead will still increase in the next few seconds because the BMW will still trying to catch up with the speed. Not until end of the 5 second mark when both cars are at 60 mph that gap would stop widening but the large lead will still be there. In other words if you race a car, with similar 0-60 or even somewhat better 0-60, your Tesla will always win unless the other car is willing to get a ticket.

This is simple physics but anyone who has driven a Tesla will tell you right away this is how it goes without needing to understand the physics. I have never seen another car on the road that could impress me, seriously.

MarylandS85 |
13 september 2017

@jacroseiii
In mathematical terms, using @carlk’s example, imagine the Tesla accelerates from 0 to 60 in a straight diagonal line over a 5 second period (not exactly accurate, but helpful to visualize the difference). The BMW does so in an exponential curve that starts out flat and then slopes upward gradually. Both cars hit 60 mph at the 5 second mark. The distance covered is measured by the area under the curve or line. The Tesla will have gone a much further distance in those 5 seconds because of the head start it has in the first couple seconds. In this example, the BMW would perform better in a 0-100 mph race.

As others have commented, in the real world, 0-60 isn’t frequently relevant. A 0-100 race almost never is. Most of us accelerate from 0-30 or 0-40 on normal streets. Or for highway merging, maybe we accelerate briskly from 20-70 (e.g., rapid merge from a ramp) or 60-80 (e.g., passing at highway speeds). In all scenarios, the Tesla shines. The 0-30 or 0-40 times are insane because of the front-loaded acceleration inherent to electric vehicles. The highway speed acceleration scenarios are also robust because of instant torque (near instantaneous onset of acceleration) without the hiccup inherent to the complicated internal combustion engine setup.

TLDR: The 0-60 times are flawed metrics. When you floor the accelerator on a Tesla, your car’s up-front, instantaneous acceleration buys you an immediate lead, and the non-Tesla vehicle doesn’t have a chance to catch up, numbers be damned.

Sparky |
13 september 2017

The first time I took my wife for a test drive in a P85 I stomped on the torque pedal and her sunglasses came off the top of her head and hit the back window. She was an instant convert. EV acceleration is better than the hunt for the horsepower band in an ICE vehicle no matter how good it is. Think of the "gas" pedal rather as a "G" pedal and you'll know what I mean.

hsadler |
13 september 2017

Yeah at first lots of fun with a 7 passenger sedan dusting most cars.... but after a while you kind of pick and choose which ICE cars to humiliate.

On a serious side, when our Tesla came out (early VIN), there were some ICE cars that would egg us on. Taunt us on the freeway during our normal commute. Eventually we would succumb and give them the ridicule they deserved. Normally you would never see them again. Can't imagine how much fun the Performance versions are.

DTsea |
13 september 2017

Jacroseii, the 5s ICE spends more time at the lower end of the speed range ao has gone a shorter diatance after 5 sec. Ie lower average speed over the 5 seconds than a 5 second EV.

vaelin |
13 september 2017

We picked up a P90DL X as we needed a bigger people mover, and wanted to bump our M3 reservation up.

Now it's the quickest vehicle in the garage. The other two being 600hp+ tuned sports coupe and sports sedan.

I'm eager (and frightened) to see what next year's Performance versions of the M3 will be like.

Carl Thompson |
14 september 2017

If an ICE vehicle and an EV have the same 0-60 times but the ICE vehicle has traveled a shorter distance when they have both reached 60 that necessarily means the ICE vehicles rate of acceleration is higher at 60 MPH. This implies 2 things which are different than what has been implied above:
1. At 60 MPH the ICE vehicle would be closing the distance (the EV's lead would be shrinking)
2. At 60 MPH the ICE vehicle can out accelerate the EV

Carl

stockbandit91 |
14 september 2017

If both cars are cruising at an even 60mph on a freeway, then try to speed up, the EV will likely accelerate faster for a short while as the ICE reacts slower to the request to increase speed.

carlk |
14 september 2017

"At 60 MPH the ICE vehicle can out accelerate the EV"

That's only when the ICE car is at the power band and in the process of accelerating. If it's cruising at 60 mph it will still subject to the usual hesitation and delay typical of all ICE cars. Just get in a Tesla and punch the pedal at 60 mph once you will learn the truth which is you have never lived before.

Frank99 |
14 september 2017

Agreed. As I posted somewhere else, cruising down the freeway and punching the throttle, it takes my car two seconds to decide to accelerate between downshifting and whatever the hell else it's doing. A Tesla might be 50 feet in front, and going 30 mph faster in those two seconds...

Carl Thompson |
14 september 2017

@Frank99

Agreed... When driving an automatic. But I still like manual cars and I'll downshift _before_ I make my move. That allows me to get instantaneous response when I do so (but of course does require that small amount of planning).

Carl

MarylandS85 |
14 september 2017

@Carl Thompson
Agreed that a manual transmission gives a huge advantage over ICE automatics. I’ve driven manuals my whole life. I was torn about giving it up when I decided to get the Model S, but I don’t miss it at all. The performance upgrade with a high powered EV is addictive and rendered my love for the stick shift moot.

+1 to this whole thread for respectful discussion and negotiation of differences of opinion without resorting to name calling.

carlk |
14 september 2017

Wrong again. What imaginary manual car you are driving?

My Model S actually replaced my 6 speed Porsche Cayman S. It's not even close. No one cruises at 5000 rpm. Not to mention unlike the Tesla that will give you instantaneous AND continuous torque you always need to take time to shift down or up after a second or two.

carlk |
14 september 2017

My post was to reply Carl Thompson.

giskard |
14 september 2017

I agree, nice discussion! I, too, have driven nothing but manual transmission cars for almost two decades (usually on the sporty side) and was concerned about giving up my third pedal. So I took over the last 6 months of the lease on a 2015 i3 Rex to try it out (just turned it back into BMW a few days ago). On paper, the i3 is bigger, heavier, and slower 0-60 than my 2015 MINI. However, as other EV owners have chimed it, it feels faster in most situations. I was quite surprised at how much I liked the i3 and it virtually supplanted the MINI while I had it. I now have no qualms about giving up my 3rd pedal and I'm quite looking forward to experiencing my Model 3 which should run rings around both cars.

Thrillion |
14 september 2017

As to Carl's point, Its a good bet that those ICE cars have much more horse to weight ratio as well.

How do you like that, bet them in a race and with lower power.

carlk |
14 september 2017

MarylandS85 I too have been driving nothing but manual cars not to mention some of the best sports cars too. I also was somewhat reluctant when I went to buy my model S because of this. In the end nothing, even a 6 speed Porsche, could compare to the driving experience of the Tesla. Many people here know this already, and many have the same experiences, that my Tesla and Porsche have been parked in my garage side by side for two years. The Porsche had cumulated only a few hundred miles during the two years. Every time I went into the garage I inevitably will choose the Tesla to drive.

Tropopause |
14 september 2017

We used to see Tesla's getting the jump on an ICE at the drag strip then theses powerful ICE cars catch and win at the 1/4 mile. Then Elon came up with Ludicrous Mode which improved power at high speeds. Now these powerful ICE cars can not catch the Tesla before the 1/4 mile.

So yes, all Tesla's dominate under legal speed limits. If you want your Tesla to also dominate at illegal speeds get Ludicrous.

carlk |
14 september 2017

giskard Talk about i3 one of my coworkers got one a year ago. The first thing he said after getting the car was he's worried that young people getting the car might be driving too fast. And that's what a 7 sec or 8 sec car? People who have never driven an EV really should refrain from making speculations until they do drive one.

Carl Thompson |
14 september 2017

@carlk

Perhaps you're not able to drive your cars as well as others? That would explain your differing experience.

Carl

MarylandS85 |
14 september 2017

Regarding @carlk’s point, he’s right that nothing gets a jump on an EV, even at highway speeds. If and when one’s brain decides to suddenly speed up on a highway, flooring the Tesla accelerator is an unparalleled experience. If, as @Carl Thompson notes, I knew ahead of time I wanted to accelerate in my manual transmission ICE vehicle, I would have down-shifted in anticipation, but even so, when I slam the gas pedal and release the clutch, there is that tiny delay before my power train is fully engaged. That second or less of delay is the key difference between the ICE and the Tesla.

Almost everyone I know prefers the Model S experience as driver or passenger over our previous ICE vehicles. I prefer the delay-free acceleration. My wife prefers the smooth acceleration sans the neck-jerking inherent to a manual. My kids prefer the engine noise-free cabin. Only my cat preferred the older cars. She makes it known by vomiting when we take her anywhere in the Tesla. :^)

Carl Thompson |
14 september 2017

@MarylandS85:
"I slam the gas pedal and release the clutch, there is that tiny delay before my power train is fully engaged."

What I'm saying is that the clutch will already have been released and the proper gear engaged before I floor the accelerator to pass. As I said you do need to plan ahead, though.

Of course if you need to make an unanticipated move (as is sometimes necessary for safety) the EV will win hands down. As others have pointed out driving an ICE properly requires a lot more technique and planning and that means you can't make sudden moves and decisions like you can in an EV.

Carl

carlk |
14 september 2017

Carl Thompson
"@carlk
Perhaps you're not able to drive your cars as well as others? That would explain your differing experience."

You have not answered my question what manual car you have owned. I'm not even going to ask you how well you drive your car but you really sounded like you have never driven one.

"What I'm saying is that the clutch will already have been released and the proper gear engaged before I floor the accelerator to pass. "