Marjean and Bryan Summers interview (transcript)

Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 1
RANCH FAMILY DOCUMENTATION PROJECT
TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET
Interviewee: MarJean and Bryan Summers
Place of Interview: MarJean Summer’s home, Paradise, Utah
Date of Interview: December 13, 2011
Interviewer: Randy Williams
Recordist: Randy Williams
Recording Equipment: Marantz digital recorder: Model no.: PMD660;
Shure omnidirectional microphone: Model no.: MX 183
Transcription Equipment: Power Player Transcription Software: Executive Communication Systems with foot pedal
Transcribed by: Susan Gross
Transcript Proofed by: Randy Williams, 28 March 2012; MarJean Summers, 19 April 2012.
Brief Description of Contents: Mrs. MarJean Summers discusses growing up in Cache Valley, marrying, and raising a family in Cache Valley. She talks about raising her children on a ranch. Mr. Bryan Summers (one of MarJean’s sons) talks about growing up on a ranch and ranching today, in the Cache Valley.
Reference: RW = Randy Williams (Interviewer)
MS = MarJean Summers (Interviewee)
BS = Bryan Summers (Interviewee)
NOTE: Interjections during pauses or transitions in dialogue such as “uh” and starts and stops in conversations are not included in transcribed. All additions to transcript are noted with brackets.
TAPE TRANSCRIPTION
[00:01]
RW: Well, it is the 13th of December, 2011, and I am here with MarJean and Bryan Summers, and we’re talking about ranch families. Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 2
And MarJean – I’d like you to just tell me a little bit about [yourself], your name, and birthday, and just a little bit about the Wellsville years.
MS: [Laughs] I was born in Wellsville on December the 20th, 1933. And I grew up there, and lived there until I was a junior in high school, and then I got married to Sharell Summers. And so my years of growing up there was wonderful. We just had a lot of good teachers for school, and we just had a good time.
RW: Was that South Cache?
MS: Yep, South Cache – I went to South Cache; started out with [grade school] and the Wellsville Junior High, and then I graduated from South Cache.
RW: Were you from an agricultural background, as a girl?
MS: No, not really; my dad had six Jersey cows, and I used to milk them all the time.
RW: Um-hmm.
MS: And hauled a little hay – but that was as much as my dad had to do with farming.
RW: But Sharell’s family –
MS: Were farmers, um-hmm; ranchers. They had a lot of milk cows on Sharell’s side. So Sharell said when we got married we wasn’t raising milk cows, we was going to do something else. So then, of course we went into raising pigs, and cattle, and things like that.
RW: Were you always out here, in the Paradise area?
MS: Um-hmm.
RW: Is that where Sharell’s family were?
MS: Um-hmm, right.
[02:00]
RW: Well how was that for you, Bryan, growing up? I assume that the children were all participating in that?
BS: Well, we all participated growing up. Like I say, I milked a few cows too (when we had a few milk cows), and of course we always had lots of pigs: we had 50 sows, and we would have them from farrow to finish (so from baby pigs to slaughter), and we’d always take about ten head every week to Tri Millers, in Hyrum (it’s out of business now). But we used to take 10 pigs down there every week, and sell like 200-220 pounds at that time.
RW: Every week throughout a certain period of time? Or, all through the year? Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 3
BS: Like every Wednesday, or so, we’d take 10 head every week.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: Down there; so we’ve fed a lot. We had maybe more pigs at that time than we did beef cattle (we didn’t have that many beef cattle). We had a few beef cattle, I think (as I remember) maybe 20 or 25 beef cows. And then all of those pigs, and then seven, or eight, nine, ten milk cows.
RW: Was that all just around here –
BS: Yep.
RW: On some deeded ground?
BS: Um-hmm, yep.
RW: Have you continued with pigs, or have you gotten out of that?
BS: Nope, they sold the pigs when I was about 20 years old. So pigs have been gone off the place for 30 years.
RW: And what precipitated that change?
BS: I don’t think my dad wanted to take care of them anymore.
[Laughter]
So he got rid of the pigs, and increased more beef cattle numbers.
RW: Um-hmm. Can you talk about that, the change-over?
BS: Oh, I guess at that time, on the beef cattle (after we got rid of the pigs); we started increasing the cattle. And we – oh, I was probably 22-3-4 years old (right in there), and we got rid of the pigs, and got more beef cattle. And then when I was about 25 – I was about 26 years old, I started working for EA Miller (in Hyrum), and so we started buying cattle, or I started buying cattle for that company. And that kind of facilitated where we could have more opportunities to buy cattle for ourselves too.
[04:25]
RW: So you’re out working at EA Miller’s as a broker?
BS: I was a salaried employee at the time there.
RW: Um-hmm? Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 4
BS: And I was buying cattle for them. And so we just increased the cattle more and more as the years went on, where today we probably are running right at about 475 mother cows, and about 750 yearling steers, today.
RW: Where are you doing that? On deeded ground? Also on BLM and Forest?
BS: Deeded, Forest Service, and no BLM, and then we rent some private pastures off some people in Jackson, Wyoming; Evanston, Wyoming.
RW: Um-hmm. How does that work for you? Are you trailing up there?
BS: You mean to get the cattle there?
RW: Um-hmm?
BS: Oh, we just haul them up on semis –
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: In the spring of the year, usually the end of May, first of June, into the high country, and just unload them. And they take care of them for us; we don’t have to go down there.
RW: Okay, so they have some range riders up there?
BS: Um-hmm; yep, they take care of them.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: We just pick them back up in the fall of the year. And when it’s time to sell them (usually the middle of September, the middle of October is when we sell the yearling steers).
RW: Are you doing that through video auction? Or are you doing that through an auction house?
BS: I buy those kinds of 400 pound type calves this time of year.
RW: Um-hmm?
BS: And if we keep them around here, locally here, until spring time. And then they usually put on a couple hundred pounds in the winter time, here on hay, and some corn silage, barley silage, and then we turn them out there on grass – all the yearlings.
RW: One of the things that’s been fascinating to me [to learn while conducting the interviews] is some things have stayed pretty similar over the years – from fathers to sons, and mothers and daughters – but like with video auction – those kinds of things are changing. Or the different market; a lot of people say 30-40 years ago I guess beef wasn’t the premier, and now that’s what everybody wants.
BS: Right, uh-huh. Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 5
[06:26]
RW: How is that with your business? Some of those changes?
BS: Oh, I think you kind of have to change with what the demand is.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: Like with Angus cattle – I mean, that’s what’s the easiest to sell right now, and I don’t think that Angus is really superior to a red-hided animal, but that’s what the markets dictate right now –
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: So I mean if you want to kind of get the top of the market, you better have what they are wanting to buy. So we have a lot of black cattle.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: But like I say, to say they’re superior, I don’t truly believe that at all (when it comes to the meat).
RW: Right, exactly; okay.
BS: Yep, yep.
RW: So with the cow-calf operation –
BS: Um-hmm?
RW: Are you calving in close, are they out far? How does that work for you?
BS: Oh, out of 475 cows we have right now, probably about 120 cows that calve in the fall (September, October, to about the middle of December – I just got a few little calves here in the last couple of weeks). But we have about 125 of them that calve in the fall, and then the balance of them calve in the spring (March first to about May 15th).
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: And those cows are all calved in the open – we don’t barn calf too many cows at all. When we had less cows, we probably calved February one, and barn calved more. But with the volume, it’s just too much labor. So we moved the calving date back.
RW: Okay. Well, MarJean, how many of your kids have continued in the business? Is Bryan the only one that’s participating in the family business?
MS: Right. Yeah, he’s been – since Sharell passed away, he kind of took over the cattle and trying to run the farm. Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 6
RW: Um-hmm.
MS: Alan’s been helping out this summer, a little, and he enjoys doing that. But Bryan’s mostly in charge.
RW: How many children do you have?
MS: I had five.
RW: Um-hmm.
[08:24]
MS: And we have two hired men – because Bryan still has to do his job, you know. [Laughs]
RW: What is his job? What does he do besides – I mean –
MS: He order buys for people.
RW: Okay.
MS: Yeah.
RW: So he’s doing that, as well as running [the ranch]?
MS: Trying to run –
RW: The operation here?
MS: Um-hmm.
RW: Um-hmm.
MS: Yeah.
RW: So what are your hired men – what are their responsibilities?
MS: Just to take care of the chores [and other tings].
RW: Um-hmm.
MS: Around the house, and out to our other place, and just do whatever the farm requires every day.
RW: Um-hmm. So when you say farm, are you talking crops, as well as livestock?
MS: Um-hmm.
RW: So what – is it hay? Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 7
MS: Mostly hay.
RW: Are you selling hay, or is it all for your own animal consumption?
MS: Oh, no – no, we keep all the hay. And then we chop some, and put in the pit. And you know we have to buy quite a bit of hay.
RW: Do you?
MS: Um-hmm.
RW: So with the cow-calf operation, and then it sounds like you’re also – Bryan was saying – buying cows to fatten them up, as well?
MS: Well, yeah; if they get too old (the mother cows, you know) we just sell them and replace them with younger ones.
RW: Oh, okay, I see; so you’re talking about replacement heifers?
MS: Um-hmm.
RW: Okay, I see.
MS: Yeah.
RW: I misunderstood.
MS: Yeah, so.
RW: Do you have any other livestock, I mean besides cows and horses? No more pigs?
MS: No, no more pigs; we converted that all to cattle.
RW: Um-hmm. So you’ve said, MarJean, you were saying you have two pieces of ground; so the farmstead (right around here), and then there’s someplace else, you said – where is that at?
MS: Out, south of Paradise; we have 400 acres –
BS: About 400 acres out there.
RW: Out toward Avon, out in that direction?
BS: Um-hmm, yep.
RW: Okay. And so do you run a lot of your cattle out there as well?
BS: In the summer time. Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 8
[10:26]
RW: Or is that – so where are your pastures for your hay? Or where is your –
BS: We buy most of our hay; we don’t put up that much hay. We probably buy somewhere in the neighborhood of 12-1300 ton of hay, is what we usually buy on a yearly basis. But as far as actual acreage of hay, we probably only had maybe about 100 acres of hay ground.
RW: Um-hmm. So since you’re sending quite a (sounds like) lot of your cattle (or some of your cattle) up into Wyoming, is that just toward the end of the fall and winter, for the hay?
BS: No, they would only be up there from the end of May until the middle of October.
RW: I mean, for the hay part; you’re just getting your hay when they come back off of the –
BS: Well, we would sell them, and turn around and buy little 400 pound calves this time of year, and keep around here.
RW: And that’s what the hay is for?
BS: That’s what the hay is for.
RW: Right.
BS: And for the cows, too.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: But I mean, we send a lot of cows out other places; like today I’m going to send 100 of those fall-calving cows to Ventura, California, for the winter.
RW: Is that at a feedlot, or what would that be?
BS: Grass.
RW: Grass, okay.
BS: Because their season is just the opposite of ours.
RW: Uh-huh.
BS: So they’re having green grass down there right now, it’s just coming on.
RW: So where are the different places? You’ve got some place over in California, and that’s for –
BS: The falling-calving cows. Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 9
RW: Fall-calf.
BS: And then we have – out to Malta, Idaho, we have about 150 cows out there that we keep. And we’ve got some over to Tremonton right now. And then we’ll keep maybe 150 cows around here for the winter.
RW: Okay. So these different places – are these all going to be similar to what you’re doing in Wyoming? Sending them off and somebody else is going to manage –
BS: Right, uh-huh.
RW: And then is that a per-head – a fee per head?
BS: Right, uh-huh. Yeah, on the cows it’s usually so much per month; and on the feeder cattle that go up into Wyoming, it’s usually a cost per pound of gain.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: Is what it is.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: In the Wyoming area.
RW: I see. So, the yearly cycle – are you then (with all these cattle), are you branding? How are you marking your cattle? Are you doing ear-marks?
BS: We brand them and ear-mark them, and I’ll put a label in their ear, for identification.
[12:42]
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: It has a name and a phone number on it.
RW: Do you have all this – is it a computerized system, that you’re keeping track of the cow and calf? How does that work?
BS: No, hm-um; we do not keep anything – the only thing we keep on the computers are financials.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: But as far as individual cows –
RW: Just ledger still?
BS: We don’t keep any track of that in the – on the individual cows at all. Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 10
RW: I see. Is your brand still your dad’s brand?
BS: Yes.
RW: Or is it a family brand?
BS: It’s a family brand.
RW: What is your brand?
BS: F S on the left rib; and that was Grandpa Fred’s brand (on the hip), and then dad registered it on the rib. And then we have another brand that we call a 1 or a bar on the right hip that we run most the yearlings with. We use the one bar quite a bit now, because it’s so easy to apply.
RW: I was just talking to your mom when you were gone for a moment about the family, and who’s all involved. Are any of your children involved, or any of your siblings kids come back and involved?
BS: No, not really.
RW: So mostly –
BS: My wife helps quite a bit; but like I say, as far as my children, or any of my siblings, or their kids that help – none, really: none at all. We have a couple hired men full time.
RW: Um-hmm. So at branding time – would that be hiring more people to come in?
BS: Um-hmm.
RW: Or in gathering –
BS: Um-hmm, yep; hiring extra hands at that time.
RW: How do you go about hiring folks?
[Laughter]
MS: Oh –
RW: MarJean’s laughing [laughs].
BS: Word of mouth; we get kids from Utah State that are over there in college –
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: There, a lot of them always need a part-time job. So then we have some local neighborhood kids, here, that move sprinkler pipe in the summer time. Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 11
RW: Um-hmm.
[14:27]
MS: You ought to say Sierra and Savannah.
BS: Yeah, my two daughters move pipe in the summer time.
MS: Yeah.
BS: So, like I say, it’s mostly kids from Utah State, or sometimes we might call the employment service, but not very often on the employment service.
RW: So with your children (your daughters, it sounds like), are any of your kids involved in 4-H, or FFA, or rodeo?
BS: Oh, 4-H; we’ve done some show steers –
RW: Uh-huh?
BS: And some show pigs, and that. So they do a little of that. And they’re not really in love with it.
[Laughter]
RW: MarJean, did your kids do that as well? Did they raise pigs?
MS: Oh, yes. Bryan got – the very last year that he showed pigs, he got grand champion.
RW: Oh, congratulations! That’s a big honor.
MS: [Laughs] But yeah – every one of the two boys, and the two girls all showed pigs at the fair. And we’ve just been involved in 4-H and FFA for all these years.
RW: Did you do some stuff with the 4-H? Were you a leader?
MS: No, I never was a leader. Nope; never was a leader. But I was always there to back them up [laughs].
RW: Sure, uh-huh. Well one of the things we’ve been asking folks, is how are family traditions inter-woven in with the family business? Are there any activities that perpetuate the family business, as far as agriculture and ranching, or farming? Are there things that you can think of that might be a connector?
BS: Well I know on a lot of ranches a big tradition is, you know, branding the calves in the spring of the year, and that. I mean, we do it too, but it’s not a tradition that the family, and the extended family does it all.
RW: Uh-huh? Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 12
[16:29]
BS: I mean, we just get the couple hired men, and we go out and help them, or like I say, me and my wife might. But no, it’s not really a tradition.
RW: Is your wife from an agricultural background?
BS: Not really.
RW: So it’s something she’s learned after?
BS: Learned.
MS: She is very good at it. She can name all them cows, and know every calf that belongs to it. Bonnie is very good at it.
RW: What’s your wife’s name?
BS: Bonnie.
RW: Bonnie.
BS: Um-hmm.
RW: Where is she from?
BS: Up the road, here about three blocks.
RW: Here [laughs].
MS: The dad that brought the cake –
RW: Oh!
MS: Is her dad.
RW: Okay.
MS: Yeah.
BS: Not too far.
RW: Good jelly roll makers in that family.
[Laughter]
MS: Bonnie loves horses.
RW: Okay. Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 13
MS: Her and Sharell done a lot of cattle round-ups on horses.
RW: Well I interviewed Lane Parker –
MS: Yes.
RW: And he said that you’re [speaking to MarJean] always at the auction.
MS: The auction.
RW: Can you talk a little bit about the auction? Why do you go?
MS: Well, that’s what Sharell and I done, and I just always went with Sharell. And there for – I don’t know how many years – we went clear to Spanish Fork every week, and bring cattle back. But I’ve just always went with Sharell wherever he went, and bought cows, and horses.
And so now Sharell is passed away, Bryan says that I could go to the auction with him. So he takes me every Tuesday to Ogden and to Smithfield every Thursday. And I take my sewing, and my knitting, and visit with all them men. And it’s just been great. And that’s just my life [laughs]. So I was glad that Bryan would take me.
[18:23]
RW: Now, correct me if I’m wrong, but is your daughter involved with the auction? It seemed like Lane said something about your daughter’s family’s involved with the cooking?
BS: Yeah, it would be my mother-in-law.
RW: Your mother-in-law, okay.
MS: Yeah, yeah.
RW: Okay, so your mother-in-law is the one –
BS: Cooks at the auction.
RW: Okay.
BS: Um-hmm.
MS: Yeah.
RW: And she just got back from a mission recently?
BS: Yep, yep.
MS: Um-hmm. Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 14
RW: Okay.
BS: In Nevada.
RW: Yeah, that’s right.
MS: Yep, yep. But I love going to the auctions.
RW: What do you love about it?
MS: Just being there, and watching the cattle, and seeing how much they bring; and sometimes, you know, one of them jumps over the fence [laughs]. It’s just part of the life. I just really like being there. A lot of the women think it smells, you know; no – it don’t smell [laughs].
RW: Well, what do you utilize the auction for, in your business?
BS: Oh, I buy meat cows for a cow packer out of Fresno, California; so I buy meat cows at these local sales around here.
RW: Uh-huh.
BS: Then we would buy some of these little calves for us to bring home.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: Oh, like I say – just feeder cattle for other customers.
RW: How many customers do you have that you’re doing cattle brokering for?
BS: We have really one large one –
RW: Um-hmm?
BS: And that’s Five Rivers that the Brazilians own now. And they have three feed yards in northern Colorado, and one up in Malta, Idaho; and we send quite a few cattle to them on a yearly basis, on the brokering business. And then we have other yards around, that anywhere from maybe 5 to 20,000 that I would broker cattle to, too.
RW: Wow.
BS: And we would send cattle from – oh, out of this area, they would go to Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa type deal; send a few to Minnesota a few times.
[pause recording]
RW: Okay, well sorry about that little interruption.
[Laughter] Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 15
One of the things that’s been interesting, talking with folks (folks like yourself, Bryan), that the market is so international now. Has that been something that you’ve seen change in your career?
BS: Oh, yeah; um-hmm. We have always had a few dairy heifers over the years – we don’t have really any right at the moment, but dad used to have some dairy heifers all the time. And I did buy some about a year and a half ago, and I did sell them to a broker in Blackfoot, Idaho, in May of this year, and he sent them to Turkey.
RW: Oh, wow.
BS: Yep, they went to Blackfoot, and then he got the blood test, and all that done on them, and then they went to Pennsylvania for 30 days, and then they went on a barge from the east coast, to Turkey.
[21:16]
RW: What all is involved in – I mean, you’re talking about blood tests – what all goes into shipping cattle to South America, to Turkey, to China?
BS: Oh, they have to TB test them – that’s a big one, TB test, and brucellosis test, that’s the main two.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: Sometimes they have a test for blue tongue that they would also do. And so like I say, those are the major tests. And then these were calving females, heifers –
RW: Okay.
BS: So of course they’d have to test for pregnancy, you know, too.
RW: Um-hmm. Are they –
BS: They were Holstein heifers.
RW: Were they shipped out pregnant though?
BS: Oh, yeah; um-hmm.
RW: So they want a pregnant –
BS: Um-hmm.
RW: So you do preg-checks?
BS: They were kind of three to four months along, is what they were.
RW: Um-hmm. How old – I mean, I’m assuming people don’t want first-year heifers? Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 16
BS: Yeah, that’s what they were.
RW: They were?
BS: They were.
RW: So they’re sending over –
BS: Um-hmm, first time.
RW: Okay.
BS: First time to have a calf.
RW: Why first time? To me, I just think I wouldn’t want a first-time.
BS: Oh, I think it’s just – I mean, you have more difficulty in the calving, and all that type of stuff, than you do with a second, or third, fourth type-deal; but I think it’s just younger animals.
RW: So longer years of calving?
BS: Longevity.
RW: Got you.
BS: Um-hmm; yep.
RW: With all that goes into purchasing for other people – I mean, obviously you know your clientele.
BS: Um-hmm.
RW: But what all are you looking for: calving ease, weight gain? What are some of the factors that goes into when you’re purchasing?
BS: We buy mostly feeder cattle; we don’t buy too many bred animals.
RW: Okay.
BS: Our broker in that.
RW: Okay.
BS: We do a little, but mostly it’s feeder cattle.
RW: Um-hmm. Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 17
BS: And we would buy them anywhere from 550 to 950 pounds for different customers. And – oh, usually like with the big feed yards, it’s not – it’s usually price-dictate (how many you buy). I mean, they’ll give you a price, and I mean I buy, you know, 1-2,000, as long as the price fits what they want.
RW: I see.
[23:26]
BS: And like I say, you look at the condition of the animal: if they’re kind of on the thinner side, on the fleshy side, if they’re fat (they won’t be quite as good of gainers if they’re fleshy, you know) –
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: If somebody else has kind of got some of the good out of them. So just all of those factors kind of go into it.
RW: When you’re buying for a feedlot, when it goes over to the feedlot, how much more is it going to gain there?
BS: Oh, like most of these cattle – like an 800 pound steer, they’d like him to weigh 13[00] at slaughter.
RW: Okay.
BS: So 500 pounds. Most of the time they like to put between 4-500 pounds on animal (of grain pounds).
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: Barley or corn.
RW: So tell me the difference, because a lot of people (especially ranchers), they’re selling through video auction. But it sounds like what you’re doing for the folks you’re brokering for; you’re going to the live auctions. How –
BS: Most of my trade is done private treaty, out in the country.
RW: Oh, okay.
BS: I don’t buy very many sale barn cattle.
RW: Okay, I see.
BS: Most of it’s private treaty.
RW: I see. Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 18
BS: From ranch to ranch.
RW: Okay. And then those are also, then, going to the different folks you’re –
BS: Right.
RW: You’re purchasing and brokering for?
BS: Um-hmm.
RW: How did you get into that? It sounds like your dad was involved that as well?
BS: Well, when I was small I always went to the cattle sale with my dad and my mother, all the time. And then, like I say, then I started working down to EA Miller, there, when I was about 25-26 years old. And I worked down there for them for about 18 years, and then the last seven years I’ve been on my own, brokering cattle.
RW: Okay. Now this is something that I’ve had a hard time – either I’m not articulating the question well, or it’s just maybe difficult to tell a person. But how do you learn those skills of judging an animal?
BS: I think that it’s kind of a knack that you kind of have or you kind of grow up with by being around the animals. I think that it’s – I mean, if you took somebody out of college, and they didn’t know anything about cattle – I think it would be very hard to teach them.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: I do.
RW: Do you – you know, we talk a lot about the traditions in a ranch family – I just wonder how much going to auctions, or going out with your dad (and your mom), and the nuances, you know. You’re watching your dad, and as he’s doing something, when you see something that’s good, is he saying to you, “Look, Bryan; look at,” you know – what is he telling you to look at?
BS: Right, yeah. No, I do think that’s part of it that makes your perception, or your –
RW: Um-hmm?
[25:58]
BS: Or your knowledge, or your know-how, how to do it. I do think that – like I say, I think it’s very hard to teach.
RW: What kind of things would your dad be telling you to look at, pay attention to, “That’s good, that’s not good”?
BS: Oh, like I would say like, as far as quality, you know; you know, a good frame on an animal, and not real short, squatty – you don’t want of them short, squatty animals, Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 19
because there’s just no capacity to them. But something that’s got some frame on it, some bone on it (some good, good bone under them). Some of those animals, if they’ve been not taken care of, they get a big belly. So I mean, some of those will come out of it, but a lot of times they won’t, so then they’re not very good cattle to have either. But oh – like I say, just kind of stuff like that; flesh conditions, you know.
RW: Well I wonder – MarJean, you’ve been going to the auction for years; are these – you know, what are some of the things that you watch with your husband, and your son, and yourself?
MS: [Laughs] A lot of people say, “Well how many did you buy today, Marj?”
“Oh, no – I’m not the buyer; I just look.” [Laughing]
Let me tell you – when Bryan was learning to do all of this, we’d take cattle down to go to the canyon up Blacksmith Fork, and a lot of those guys would say, “Where’s Bryan? We’ve got to ask him which one of these calves belongs to us.” Because he knew everybody’s cows and calves; he just had the knack for doing that.
RW: That’s what you’re saying – some people have it and some people don’t.
MS: [Laughing]
RW: So what is it – it sounds like your wife has it, too?
BS: She’s – not as far as purchasing, no.
MS: No. She just takes care of them around here.
BS: As far as taking care of them; but like I say, I wouldn’t say she would have the ability to purchase.
RW: Well I was just saying you know whose cattle is whose, and you were saying your wife has the ability to know that cow and calf go together.
BS: Right, uh-huh.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: And I think on your own place, if you’re around those animals a lot –
[28:02]
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: You see, “Well, that calf is always following that cow,” you know.
RW: Um-hmm. Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 20
BS: And you kind of – if you’re around them, you know them. But like I say, I think that’s just a talent I was given, to remember who went to who, type deal, you know.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: And I still – even though we have a lot more cattle today, I mean, I’m not near as good as I used to be, because like I say, when you’ve only got maybe 50 to keep track of –
RW: Sure, yeah.
BS: But when you’ve got as many as we’ve got now, it’s definitely harder to remember.
RW: Um-hmm. Well, when you were working – it sounds like you worked for a lot of years for Millers –
BS: Millers, uh-huh.
RW: Is that something you could also do on the side, for yourself?
BS: Um-hmm, yeah.
RW: So there’s no conflict of interest; there’s no problems doing that?
BS: I mean, they were aware of what was going on; you have to sign conflict of interest papers. So I mean, you jot down how many cattle you got, type deal.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: So I mean, as long as you jotted down what you had, I mean –
RW: Sure.
BS: I never had any problem with that; I think maybe some companies do. But like I say, as far as these people, they didn’t ever have no problem with it.
RW: You know, you don’t hear this a whole lot, but you do every now and again it makes the new: cattle rustling. Have you guys ever had any trouble with that out in this neck of the woods?
BS: I don’t think we’ve had cattle rustling, as far as somebody picking them up and taking them; but we’ve had cattle shot and killed out on the open range.
RW: Tell me about that.
BS: Oh, you just usually find them one, two, three, five days, a month later, you know; just depends on how scattered they are out in the hills, and you know, you don’t get around to – you’ve got something out on 10,000 acres –
RW: Right. Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 21
BS: You don’t run in to it, you know.
RW: Um-hmm. What’s your opinion? Do you think it’s a mistake, somebody doing it on purpose?
MS: Take the book.
BS: I think sometimes – I mean, some of those animals were – they’d taken part of their – like the hind-quarters, or something like that. So I mean, I do think they did take it for food.
RW: Uh-huh.
BS: And then I think other times they were shot just for target practice, so to speak, and just left to lay. So, we’ve had both.
[30:07]
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: And we’ve had the sheriff out, over the years, on and off. But I mean, as far as finding anybody – never; never.
RW: Do you ever run with anybody else when you are sending your cows?
BS: Oh, yeah.
RW: I mean, I’m assuming other people are sending their cows. Have you ever had any trouble with diseases, or your cattle coming back in with, you know, bringing weeds back onto your place, that they picked up somewhere else?
BS: Hmm, about the only thing I can think of as far as – not disease, but we had some sheep people up here to Avon, that brought in that medusa head.
RW: I’ve heard of that.
BS: And they – that’s kind of spread around on the property.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: The neighbors around.
RW: Right.
BS: But really, as far as diseases – none. I guess maybe one time we did: in the late ‘70s we had some cows with brucellosis that did come in; it was our neighbors, and we did have to get rid of the whole herd – calves and everything.
RW: Oh, wow. Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 22
BS: I mean, even the baby calves; had to slaughter them all. And that’s when we had maybe – oh, maybe 75 cows.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: At that time; but we did have – that was in the late ‘70s. But we did have to dispose of all the animals. We tested them for brucellosis for about a full year, but could never get rid of it.
RW: So then you just – that’s got to hurt.
BS: Oh, yeah; um-hmm.
RW: With ranching – one of the things I’ve been hearing many, many times is a deep connection to the lifestyle with families. Has that been?
[Phone ringing]
How has that been – especially, MarJean, with you and Sharell, coming into this lifestyle – what do you feel about it? The agriculture and the connection to the animals and the land?
MS: That is a very good life to teach your kids how to work, how to do things, you know. We worked as a family; we used to go up in the morning, and we’d drop each person off at a different place to move sprinkler pipe. And then the guy at the top, he’d come down and pick us up, and then we’d come home, and have breakfast, and milk the cows, or get on with the daily do. But ranching and raising your kids on a farm is fantastic; they really learn to work and just turn out to be good kids [laughs].
RW: Are your kids getting some of those opportunities? I know you said your girls are helping out, are they kind of having that agricultural background as part of their experience?
[33:07]
BS: Well I think to some extent, but I wished it would have been more.
RW: How many children do you guys –
BS: I have two boys and three girls.
RW: MarJean, you read over these questions; are there some things that you’ve been thinking in your mind about: about the experience of ranching with families, with your business?
MS: Hmm, not really; I think you’ve pretty well covered it [laughs].
RW: Well I always try and end our interviews with asking folks – what do you see of the future of ranching in the Intermountain West, but also globally? Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 23
BS: I think it’s going to continue to decrease. I think it will – the larger operations will get larger, and the smaller ones will quit. I still think that will happen in years to come. And I just think that the smaller people – I mean, how can you afford to buy a $150,000 swather, you know, type deal.
RW: Right.
BS: And your farming 200 acres, you know, it won’t work. So like I say, you either got to hire that out, or you know, quit type-deal. So I do think there will be more consolidation to come.
RW: In this area here, I’ve noticed myself (in Cache Valley, but in all the places I’ve gone), but especially in Cache Valley, a lot of the agricultural land has changed to –
MS: Houses.
RW: Housing developments, and other kinds of things that – as someone said to me once, “It’s the last crop.”
BS: Yeah.
RW: How do you see that – especially out in your neck of the woods?
BS: I do see in Cache Valley that it will become more people and more houses. But people – like you’ve been interviewing in the Randolph/Woodruff area – I don’t see that happening over there at all. Because I just don’t think many people are going to live over there, period (not unless some business, you know, take root up over there, and provide jobs).
RW: Um-hmm.
[35:19]
BS: Or Park Valley or Grouse Creek, or any of that; I mean, I think that’s – that’s where cattle is still going to be. But as far as Cache Valley, I don’t see – I mean, I think Smithfield Auction could close, easy, in five years (because there’s no cattle).
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: You know, in the valley.
RW: A question associated with that – how have you seen regulations change? Whether they’re BLM and Forest changes, or just in the industry? Regulations – have they helped, hindered? How is that?
BS: I would say more hindrance than help.
RW: And how so? Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 24
BS: I think just more regulations; I mean, just one quick example is like having a health certificate on a steer (I mean to go across the state lines). I mean, a buyer is not going to buy an unhealthy animal, so why should we have a health certificate? I mean it’s not something that’s going to reproduce, so why should we – I mean, I can see it (maybe) on a female.
RW: Um-hmm?
BS: But on a steer – why should we have a health certificate?
RW: And so another effort, probably another fee?
BS: Right; a veterinarian is going to charge you to come out and look at them.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: A farm call is $50-100, and then write you a health certificate for another $35, you know. So I mean, that’s just one example right there.
RW: Uh-huh. Well with this long period, you know – it sounds like, MarJean, you’ve been on this place for a long time.
MS: Long time [laughs].
RW: What do you hope with this piece of ground, and this area – for the future?
MS: I hate to see them build houses on all this, here good agriculture land around here. Because a lot of people have put a lot of time and effort in their life into it, and they just sell it for money [laughs]. I think that’s just what they’re after, is more of the money, rather than keep the land for grazing, and for the cattle. Myself, I think – I’m like Bryan: I think it’s going to end, because the little guy can’t hang on.
[37:42]
RW: Um-hmm. Have you guys ever worked with any – I don’t know; there’s a lot of organizations I’ve been hearing other people talking about: easements, and different things, to keep their land in trusts, or in something so it doesn’t get developed.
MS: Um-hmm.
BS: My brother-in-law puts his farm ground and range ground in trust type-deal. He can sell it, but it can’t be built on. Yeah, he can sell it, but it can’t be built on.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: So he can still run cattle on it. And like I say, he doesn’t really own the property, per se, because they sold it and got money out of it. But like I say, them or their family, or they could sell it; it just can’t be developed on. Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 25
RW: I see.
BS: And there are other people around that have definitely done that.
RW: What would be the advantage of somebody doing that? And what would a person purchasing it – what would be their reasoning for purchasing land?
BS: Oh, I think the reason why they would purchase it is just for open space. I mean, some of these – like the Sierra Club –
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: Or, something like that.
RW: Sure.
BS: Or some of these hunting outfits would purchase it, to leave it – so you might say the word “natural” type-deal.
RW: Right.
BS: So it’s left in that state. So there are groups that are willing to do that.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: To purchase the land, so it’s not developed on.
RW: I see.
BS: But no, that’s happened around here in the valley; um-hmm.
RW: Well, I really appreciate you both letting me come. Especially Bryan – you’ve had (I’m sure) a very long day –
[Laughing]
BS: Just typical.
RW: Typical, long. Wow.
[Laughter]
If it’s a typical ranch day, it started very early and –
[Laughter]
So thank you. But I just want to let you – if there is something that I haven’t – do you want to say anything else, before I turn off? Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 26
BS: Nope, I think I’m good.
MS: I think it was okay [laughs].
RW: Alright, thank you.
[End recording – 39.41]

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Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 1
RANCH FAMILY DOCUMENTATION PROJECT
TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET
Interviewee: MarJean and Bryan Summers
Place of Interview: MarJean Summer’s home, Paradise, Utah
Date of Interview: December 13, 2011
Interviewer: Randy Williams
Recordist: Randy Williams
Recording Equipment: Marantz digital recorder: Model no.: PMD660;
Shure omnidirectional microphone: Model no.: MX 183
Transcription Equipment: Power Player Transcription Software: Executive Communication Systems with foot pedal
Transcribed by: Susan Gross
Transcript Proofed by: Randy Williams, 28 March 2012; MarJean Summers, 19 April 2012.
Brief Description of Contents: Mrs. MarJean Summers discusses growing up in Cache Valley, marrying, and raising a family in Cache Valley. She talks about raising her children on a ranch. Mr. Bryan Summers (one of MarJean’s sons) talks about growing up on a ranch and ranching today, in the Cache Valley.
Reference: RW = Randy Williams (Interviewer)
MS = MarJean Summers (Interviewee)
BS = Bryan Summers (Interviewee)
NOTE: Interjections during pauses or transitions in dialogue such as “uh” and starts and stops in conversations are not included in transcribed. All additions to transcript are noted with brackets.
TAPE TRANSCRIPTION
[00:01]
RW: Well, it is the 13th of December, 2011, and I am here with MarJean and Bryan Summers, and we’re talking about ranch families. Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 2
And MarJean – I’d like you to just tell me a little bit about [yourself], your name, and birthday, and just a little bit about the Wellsville years.
MS: [Laughs] I was born in Wellsville on December the 20th, 1933. And I grew up there, and lived there until I was a junior in high school, and then I got married to Sharell Summers. And so my years of growing up there was wonderful. We just had a lot of good teachers for school, and we just had a good time.
RW: Was that South Cache?
MS: Yep, South Cache – I went to South Cache; started out with [grade school] and the Wellsville Junior High, and then I graduated from South Cache.
RW: Were you from an agricultural background, as a girl?
MS: No, not really; my dad had six Jersey cows, and I used to milk them all the time.
RW: Um-hmm.
MS: And hauled a little hay – but that was as much as my dad had to do with farming.
RW: But Sharell’s family –
MS: Were farmers, um-hmm; ranchers. They had a lot of milk cows on Sharell’s side. So Sharell said when we got married we wasn’t raising milk cows, we was going to do something else. So then, of course we went into raising pigs, and cattle, and things like that.
RW: Were you always out here, in the Paradise area?
MS: Um-hmm.
RW: Is that where Sharell’s family were?
MS: Um-hmm, right.
[02:00]
RW: Well how was that for you, Bryan, growing up? I assume that the children were all participating in that?
BS: Well, we all participated growing up. Like I say, I milked a few cows too (when we had a few milk cows), and of course we always had lots of pigs: we had 50 sows, and we would have them from farrow to finish (so from baby pigs to slaughter), and we’d always take about ten head every week to Tri Millers, in Hyrum (it’s out of business now). But we used to take 10 pigs down there every week, and sell like 200-220 pounds at that time.
RW: Every week throughout a certain period of time? Or, all through the year? Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 3
BS: Like every Wednesday, or so, we’d take 10 head every week.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: Down there; so we’ve fed a lot. We had maybe more pigs at that time than we did beef cattle (we didn’t have that many beef cattle). We had a few beef cattle, I think (as I remember) maybe 20 or 25 beef cows. And then all of those pigs, and then seven, or eight, nine, ten milk cows.
RW: Was that all just around here –
BS: Yep.
RW: On some deeded ground?
BS: Um-hmm, yep.
RW: Have you continued with pigs, or have you gotten out of that?
BS: Nope, they sold the pigs when I was about 20 years old. So pigs have been gone off the place for 30 years.
RW: And what precipitated that change?
BS: I don’t think my dad wanted to take care of them anymore.
[Laughter]
So he got rid of the pigs, and increased more beef cattle numbers.
RW: Um-hmm. Can you talk about that, the change-over?
BS: Oh, I guess at that time, on the beef cattle (after we got rid of the pigs); we started increasing the cattle. And we – oh, I was probably 22-3-4 years old (right in there), and we got rid of the pigs, and got more beef cattle. And then when I was about 25 – I was about 26 years old, I started working for EA Miller (in Hyrum), and so we started buying cattle, or I started buying cattle for that company. And that kind of facilitated where we could have more opportunities to buy cattle for ourselves too.
[04:25]
RW: So you’re out working at EA Miller’s as a broker?
BS: I was a salaried employee at the time there.
RW: Um-hmm? Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 4
BS: And I was buying cattle for them. And so we just increased the cattle more and more as the years went on, where today we probably are running right at about 475 mother cows, and about 750 yearling steers, today.
RW: Where are you doing that? On deeded ground? Also on BLM and Forest?
BS: Deeded, Forest Service, and no BLM, and then we rent some private pastures off some people in Jackson, Wyoming; Evanston, Wyoming.
RW: Um-hmm. How does that work for you? Are you trailing up there?
BS: You mean to get the cattle there?
RW: Um-hmm?
BS: Oh, we just haul them up on semis –
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: In the spring of the year, usually the end of May, first of June, into the high country, and just unload them. And they take care of them for us; we don’t have to go down there.
RW: Okay, so they have some range riders up there?
BS: Um-hmm; yep, they take care of them.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: We just pick them back up in the fall of the year. And when it’s time to sell them (usually the middle of September, the middle of October is when we sell the yearling steers).
RW: Are you doing that through video auction? Or are you doing that through an auction house?
BS: I buy those kinds of 400 pound type calves this time of year.
RW: Um-hmm?
BS: And if we keep them around here, locally here, until spring time. And then they usually put on a couple hundred pounds in the winter time, here on hay, and some corn silage, barley silage, and then we turn them out there on grass – all the yearlings.
RW: One of the things that’s been fascinating to me [to learn while conducting the interviews] is some things have stayed pretty similar over the years – from fathers to sons, and mothers and daughters – but like with video auction – those kinds of things are changing. Or the different market; a lot of people say 30-40 years ago I guess beef wasn’t the premier, and now that’s what everybody wants.
BS: Right, uh-huh. Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 5
[06:26]
RW: How is that with your business? Some of those changes?
BS: Oh, I think you kind of have to change with what the demand is.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: Like with Angus cattle – I mean, that’s what’s the easiest to sell right now, and I don’t think that Angus is really superior to a red-hided animal, but that’s what the markets dictate right now –
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: So I mean if you want to kind of get the top of the market, you better have what they are wanting to buy. So we have a lot of black cattle.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: But like I say, to say they’re superior, I don’t truly believe that at all (when it comes to the meat).
RW: Right, exactly; okay.
BS: Yep, yep.
RW: So with the cow-calf operation –
BS: Um-hmm?
RW: Are you calving in close, are they out far? How does that work for you?
BS: Oh, out of 475 cows we have right now, probably about 120 cows that calve in the fall (September, October, to about the middle of December – I just got a few little calves here in the last couple of weeks). But we have about 125 of them that calve in the fall, and then the balance of them calve in the spring (March first to about May 15th).
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: And those cows are all calved in the open – we don’t barn calf too many cows at all. When we had less cows, we probably calved February one, and barn calved more. But with the volume, it’s just too much labor. So we moved the calving date back.
RW: Okay. Well, MarJean, how many of your kids have continued in the business? Is Bryan the only one that’s participating in the family business?
MS: Right. Yeah, he’s been – since Sharell passed away, he kind of took over the cattle and trying to run the farm. Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 6
RW: Um-hmm.
MS: Alan’s been helping out this summer, a little, and he enjoys doing that. But Bryan’s mostly in charge.
RW: How many children do you have?
MS: I had five.
RW: Um-hmm.
[08:24]
MS: And we have two hired men – because Bryan still has to do his job, you know. [Laughs]
RW: What is his job? What does he do besides – I mean –
MS: He order buys for people.
RW: Okay.
MS: Yeah.
RW: So he’s doing that, as well as running [the ranch]?
MS: Trying to run –
RW: The operation here?
MS: Um-hmm.
RW: Um-hmm.
MS: Yeah.
RW: So what are your hired men – what are their responsibilities?
MS: Just to take care of the chores [and other tings].
RW: Um-hmm.
MS: Around the house, and out to our other place, and just do whatever the farm requires every day.
RW: Um-hmm. So when you say farm, are you talking crops, as well as livestock?
MS: Um-hmm.
RW: So what – is it hay? Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 7
MS: Mostly hay.
RW: Are you selling hay, or is it all for your own animal consumption?
MS: Oh, no – no, we keep all the hay. And then we chop some, and put in the pit. And you know we have to buy quite a bit of hay.
RW: Do you?
MS: Um-hmm.
RW: So with the cow-calf operation, and then it sounds like you’re also – Bryan was saying – buying cows to fatten them up, as well?
MS: Well, yeah; if they get too old (the mother cows, you know) we just sell them and replace them with younger ones.
RW: Oh, okay, I see; so you’re talking about replacement heifers?
MS: Um-hmm.
RW: Okay, I see.
MS: Yeah.
RW: I misunderstood.
MS: Yeah, so.
RW: Do you have any other livestock, I mean besides cows and horses? No more pigs?
MS: No, no more pigs; we converted that all to cattle.
RW: Um-hmm. So you’ve said, MarJean, you were saying you have two pieces of ground; so the farmstead (right around here), and then there’s someplace else, you said – where is that at?
MS: Out, south of Paradise; we have 400 acres –
BS: About 400 acres out there.
RW: Out toward Avon, out in that direction?
BS: Um-hmm, yep.
RW: Okay. And so do you run a lot of your cattle out there as well?
BS: In the summer time. Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 8
[10:26]
RW: Or is that – so where are your pastures for your hay? Or where is your –
BS: We buy most of our hay; we don’t put up that much hay. We probably buy somewhere in the neighborhood of 12-1300 ton of hay, is what we usually buy on a yearly basis. But as far as actual acreage of hay, we probably only had maybe about 100 acres of hay ground.
RW: Um-hmm. So since you’re sending quite a (sounds like) lot of your cattle (or some of your cattle) up into Wyoming, is that just toward the end of the fall and winter, for the hay?
BS: No, they would only be up there from the end of May until the middle of October.
RW: I mean, for the hay part; you’re just getting your hay when they come back off of the –
BS: Well, we would sell them, and turn around and buy little 400 pound calves this time of year, and keep around here.
RW: And that’s what the hay is for?
BS: That’s what the hay is for.
RW: Right.
BS: And for the cows, too.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: But I mean, we send a lot of cows out other places; like today I’m going to send 100 of those fall-calving cows to Ventura, California, for the winter.
RW: Is that at a feedlot, or what would that be?
BS: Grass.
RW: Grass, okay.
BS: Because their season is just the opposite of ours.
RW: Uh-huh.
BS: So they’re having green grass down there right now, it’s just coming on.
RW: So where are the different places? You’ve got some place over in California, and that’s for –
BS: The falling-calving cows. Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 9
RW: Fall-calf.
BS: And then we have – out to Malta, Idaho, we have about 150 cows out there that we keep. And we’ve got some over to Tremonton right now. And then we’ll keep maybe 150 cows around here for the winter.
RW: Okay. So these different places – are these all going to be similar to what you’re doing in Wyoming? Sending them off and somebody else is going to manage –
BS: Right, uh-huh.
RW: And then is that a per-head – a fee per head?
BS: Right, uh-huh. Yeah, on the cows it’s usually so much per month; and on the feeder cattle that go up into Wyoming, it’s usually a cost per pound of gain.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: Is what it is.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: In the Wyoming area.
RW: I see. So, the yearly cycle – are you then (with all these cattle), are you branding? How are you marking your cattle? Are you doing ear-marks?
BS: We brand them and ear-mark them, and I’ll put a label in their ear, for identification.
[12:42]
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: It has a name and a phone number on it.
RW: Do you have all this – is it a computerized system, that you’re keeping track of the cow and calf? How does that work?
BS: No, hm-um; we do not keep anything – the only thing we keep on the computers are financials.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: But as far as individual cows –
RW: Just ledger still?
BS: We don’t keep any track of that in the – on the individual cows at all. Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 10
RW: I see. Is your brand still your dad’s brand?
BS: Yes.
RW: Or is it a family brand?
BS: It’s a family brand.
RW: What is your brand?
BS: F S on the left rib; and that was Grandpa Fred’s brand (on the hip), and then dad registered it on the rib. And then we have another brand that we call a 1 or a bar on the right hip that we run most the yearlings with. We use the one bar quite a bit now, because it’s so easy to apply.
RW: I was just talking to your mom when you were gone for a moment about the family, and who’s all involved. Are any of your children involved, or any of your siblings kids come back and involved?
BS: No, not really.
RW: So mostly –
BS: My wife helps quite a bit; but like I say, as far as my children, or any of my siblings, or their kids that help – none, really: none at all. We have a couple hired men full time.
RW: Um-hmm. So at branding time – would that be hiring more people to come in?
BS: Um-hmm.
RW: Or in gathering –
BS: Um-hmm, yep; hiring extra hands at that time.
RW: How do you go about hiring folks?
[Laughter]
MS: Oh –
RW: MarJean’s laughing [laughs].
BS: Word of mouth; we get kids from Utah State that are over there in college –
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: There, a lot of them always need a part-time job. So then we have some local neighborhood kids, here, that move sprinkler pipe in the summer time. Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 11
RW: Um-hmm.
[14:27]
MS: You ought to say Sierra and Savannah.
BS: Yeah, my two daughters move pipe in the summer time.
MS: Yeah.
BS: So, like I say, it’s mostly kids from Utah State, or sometimes we might call the employment service, but not very often on the employment service.
RW: So with your children (your daughters, it sounds like), are any of your kids involved in 4-H, or FFA, or rodeo?
BS: Oh, 4-H; we’ve done some show steers –
RW: Uh-huh?
BS: And some show pigs, and that. So they do a little of that. And they’re not really in love with it.
[Laughter]
RW: MarJean, did your kids do that as well? Did they raise pigs?
MS: Oh, yes. Bryan got – the very last year that he showed pigs, he got grand champion.
RW: Oh, congratulations! That’s a big honor.
MS: [Laughs] But yeah – every one of the two boys, and the two girls all showed pigs at the fair. And we’ve just been involved in 4-H and FFA for all these years.
RW: Did you do some stuff with the 4-H? Were you a leader?
MS: No, I never was a leader. Nope; never was a leader. But I was always there to back them up [laughs].
RW: Sure, uh-huh. Well one of the things we’ve been asking folks, is how are family traditions inter-woven in with the family business? Are there any activities that perpetuate the family business, as far as agriculture and ranching, or farming? Are there things that you can think of that might be a connector?
BS: Well I know on a lot of ranches a big tradition is, you know, branding the calves in the spring of the year, and that. I mean, we do it too, but it’s not a tradition that the family, and the extended family does it all.
RW: Uh-huh? Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 12
[16:29]
BS: I mean, we just get the couple hired men, and we go out and help them, or like I say, me and my wife might. But no, it’s not really a tradition.
RW: Is your wife from an agricultural background?
BS: Not really.
RW: So it’s something she’s learned after?
BS: Learned.
MS: She is very good at it. She can name all them cows, and know every calf that belongs to it. Bonnie is very good at it.
RW: What’s your wife’s name?
BS: Bonnie.
RW: Bonnie.
BS: Um-hmm.
RW: Where is she from?
BS: Up the road, here about three blocks.
RW: Here [laughs].
MS: The dad that brought the cake –
RW: Oh!
MS: Is her dad.
RW: Okay.
MS: Yeah.
BS: Not too far.
RW: Good jelly roll makers in that family.
[Laughter]
MS: Bonnie loves horses.
RW: Okay. Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 13
MS: Her and Sharell done a lot of cattle round-ups on horses.
RW: Well I interviewed Lane Parker –
MS: Yes.
RW: And he said that you’re [speaking to MarJean] always at the auction.
MS: The auction.
RW: Can you talk a little bit about the auction? Why do you go?
MS: Well, that’s what Sharell and I done, and I just always went with Sharell. And there for – I don’t know how many years – we went clear to Spanish Fork every week, and bring cattle back. But I’ve just always went with Sharell wherever he went, and bought cows, and horses.
And so now Sharell is passed away, Bryan says that I could go to the auction with him. So he takes me every Tuesday to Ogden and to Smithfield every Thursday. And I take my sewing, and my knitting, and visit with all them men. And it’s just been great. And that’s just my life [laughs]. So I was glad that Bryan would take me.
[18:23]
RW: Now, correct me if I’m wrong, but is your daughter involved with the auction? It seemed like Lane said something about your daughter’s family’s involved with the cooking?
BS: Yeah, it would be my mother-in-law.
RW: Your mother-in-law, okay.
MS: Yeah, yeah.
RW: Okay, so your mother-in-law is the one –
BS: Cooks at the auction.
RW: Okay.
BS: Um-hmm.
MS: Yeah.
RW: And she just got back from a mission recently?
BS: Yep, yep.
MS: Um-hmm. Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 14
RW: Okay.
BS: In Nevada.
RW: Yeah, that’s right.
MS: Yep, yep. But I love going to the auctions.
RW: What do you love about it?
MS: Just being there, and watching the cattle, and seeing how much they bring; and sometimes, you know, one of them jumps over the fence [laughs]. It’s just part of the life. I just really like being there. A lot of the women think it smells, you know; no – it don’t smell [laughs].
RW: Well, what do you utilize the auction for, in your business?
BS: Oh, I buy meat cows for a cow packer out of Fresno, California; so I buy meat cows at these local sales around here.
RW: Uh-huh.
BS: Then we would buy some of these little calves for us to bring home.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: Oh, like I say – just feeder cattle for other customers.
RW: How many customers do you have that you’re doing cattle brokering for?
BS: We have really one large one –
RW: Um-hmm?
BS: And that’s Five Rivers that the Brazilians own now. And they have three feed yards in northern Colorado, and one up in Malta, Idaho; and we send quite a few cattle to them on a yearly basis, on the brokering business. And then we have other yards around, that anywhere from maybe 5 to 20,000 that I would broker cattle to, too.
RW: Wow.
BS: And we would send cattle from – oh, out of this area, they would go to Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa type deal; send a few to Minnesota a few times.
[pause recording]
RW: Okay, well sorry about that little interruption.
[Laughter] Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 15
One of the things that’s been interesting, talking with folks (folks like yourself, Bryan), that the market is so international now. Has that been something that you’ve seen change in your career?
BS: Oh, yeah; um-hmm. We have always had a few dairy heifers over the years – we don’t have really any right at the moment, but dad used to have some dairy heifers all the time. And I did buy some about a year and a half ago, and I did sell them to a broker in Blackfoot, Idaho, in May of this year, and he sent them to Turkey.
RW: Oh, wow.
BS: Yep, they went to Blackfoot, and then he got the blood test, and all that done on them, and then they went to Pennsylvania for 30 days, and then they went on a barge from the east coast, to Turkey.
[21:16]
RW: What all is involved in – I mean, you’re talking about blood tests – what all goes into shipping cattle to South America, to Turkey, to China?
BS: Oh, they have to TB test them – that’s a big one, TB test, and brucellosis test, that’s the main two.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: Sometimes they have a test for blue tongue that they would also do. And so like I say, those are the major tests. And then these were calving females, heifers –
RW: Okay.
BS: So of course they’d have to test for pregnancy, you know, too.
RW: Um-hmm. Are they –
BS: They were Holstein heifers.
RW: Were they shipped out pregnant though?
BS: Oh, yeah; um-hmm.
RW: So they want a pregnant –
BS: Um-hmm.
RW: So you do preg-checks?
BS: They were kind of three to four months along, is what they were.
RW: Um-hmm. How old – I mean, I’m assuming people don’t want first-year heifers? Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 16
BS: Yeah, that’s what they were.
RW: They were?
BS: They were.
RW: So they’re sending over –
BS: Um-hmm, first time.
RW: Okay.
BS: First time to have a calf.
RW: Why first time? To me, I just think I wouldn’t want a first-time.
BS: Oh, I think it’s just – I mean, you have more difficulty in the calving, and all that type of stuff, than you do with a second, or third, fourth type-deal; but I think it’s just younger animals.
RW: So longer years of calving?
BS: Longevity.
RW: Got you.
BS: Um-hmm; yep.
RW: With all that goes into purchasing for other people – I mean, obviously you know your clientele.
BS: Um-hmm.
RW: But what all are you looking for: calving ease, weight gain? What are some of the factors that goes into when you’re purchasing?
BS: We buy mostly feeder cattle; we don’t buy too many bred animals.
RW: Okay.
BS: Our broker in that.
RW: Okay.
BS: We do a little, but mostly it’s feeder cattle.
RW: Um-hmm. Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 17
BS: And we would buy them anywhere from 550 to 950 pounds for different customers. And – oh, usually like with the big feed yards, it’s not – it’s usually price-dictate (how many you buy). I mean, they’ll give you a price, and I mean I buy, you know, 1-2,000, as long as the price fits what they want.
RW: I see.
[23:26]
BS: And like I say, you look at the condition of the animal: if they’re kind of on the thinner side, on the fleshy side, if they’re fat (they won’t be quite as good of gainers if they’re fleshy, you know) –
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: If somebody else has kind of got some of the good out of them. So just all of those factors kind of go into it.
RW: When you’re buying for a feedlot, when it goes over to the feedlot, how much more is it going to gain there?
BS: Oh, like most of these cattle – like an 800 pound steer, they’d like him to weigh 13[00] at slaughter.
RW: Okay.
BS: So 500 pounds. Most of the time they like to put between 4-500 pounds on animal (of grain pounds).
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: Barley or corn.
RW: So tell me the difference, because a lot of people (especially ranchers), they’re selling through video auction. But it sounds like what you’re doing for the folks you’re brokering for; you’re going to the live auctions. How –
BS: Most of my trade is done private treaty, out in the country.
RW: Oh, okay.
BS: I don’t buy very many sale barn cattle.
RW: Okay, I see.
BS: Most of it’s private treaty.
RW: I see. Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 18
BS: From ranch to ranch.
RW: Okay. And then those are also, then, going to the different folks you’re –
BS: Right.
RW: You’re purchasing and brokering for?
BS: Um-hmm.
RW: How did you get into that? It sounds like your dad was involved that as well?
BS: Well, when I was small I always went to the cattle sale with my dad and my mother, all the time. And then, like I say, then I started working down to EA Miller, there, when I was about 25-26 years old. And I worked down there for them for about 18 years, and then the last seven years I’ve been on my own, brokering cattle.
RW: Okay. Now this is something that I’ve had a hard time – either I’m not articulating the question well, or it’s just maybe difficult to tell a person. But how do you learn those skills of judging an animal?
BS: I think that it’s kind of a knack that you kind of have or you kind of grow up with by being around the animals. I think that it’s – I mean, if you took somebody out of college, and they didn’t know anything about cattle – I think it would be very hard to teach them.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: I do.
RW: Do you – you know, we talk a lot about the traditions in a ranch family – I just wonder how much going to auctions, or going out with your dad (and your mom), and the nuances, you know. You’re watching your dad, and as he’s doing something, when you see something that’s good, is he saying to you, “Look, Bryan; look at,” you know – what is he telling you to look at?
BS: Right, yeah. No, I do think that’s part of it that makes your perception, or your –
RW: Um-hmm?
[25:58]
BS: Or your knowledge, or your know-how, how to do it. I do think that – like I say, I think it’s very hard to teach.
RW: What kind of things would your dad be telling you to look at, pay attention to, “That’s good, that’s not good”?
BS: Oh, like I would say like, as far as quality, you know; you know, a good frame on an animal, and not real short, squatty – you don’t want of them short, squatty animals, Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 19
because there’s just no capacity to them. But something that’s got some frame on it, some bone on it (some good, good bone under them). Some of those animals, if they’ve been not taken care of, they get a big belly. So I mean, some of those will come out of it, but a lot of times they won’t, so then they’re not very good cattle to have either. But oh – like I say, just kind of stuff like that; flesh conditions, you know.
RW: Well I wonder – MarJean, you’ve been going to the auction for years; are these – you know, what are some of the things that you watch with your husband, and your son, and yourself?
MS: [Laughs] A lot of people say, “Well how many did you buy today, Marj?”
“Oh, no – I’m not the buyer; I just look.” [Laughing]
Let me tell you – when Bryan was learning to do all of this, we’d take cattle down to go to the canyon up Blacksmith Fork, and a lot of those guys would say, “Where’s Bryan? We’ve got to ask him which one of these calves belongs to us.” Because he knew everybody’s cows and calves; he just had the knack for doing that.
RW: That’s what you’re saying – some people have it and some people don’t.
MS: [Laughing]
RW: So what is it – it sounds like your wife has it, too?
BS: She’s – not as far as purchasing, no.
MS: No. She just takes care of them around here.
BS: As far as taking care of them; but like I say, I wouldn’t say she would have the ability to purchase.
RW: Well I was just saying you know whose cattle is whose, and you were saying your wife has the ability to know that cow and calf go together.
BS: Right, uh-huh.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: And I think on your own place, if you’re around those animals a lot –
[28:02]
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: You see, “Well, that calf is always following that cow,” you know.
RW: Um-hmm. Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 20
BS: And you kind of – if you’re around them, you know them. But like I say, I think that’s just a talent I was given, to remember who went to who, type deal, you know.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: And I still – even though we have a lot more cattle today, I mean, I’m not near as good as I used to be, because like I say, when you’ve only got maybe 50 to keep track of –
RW: Sure, yeah.
BS: But when you’ve got as many as we’ve got now, it’s definitely harder to remember.
RW: Um-hmm. Well, when you were working – it sounds like you worked for a lot of years for Millers –
BS: Millers, uh-huh.
RW: Is that something you could also do on the side, for yourself?
BS: Um-hmm, yeah.
RW: So there’s no conflict of interest; there’s no problems doing that?
BS: I mean, they were aware of what was going on; you have to sign conflict of interest papers. So I mean, you jot down how many cattle you got, type deal.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: So I mean, as long as you jotted down what you had, I mean –
RW: Sure.
BS: I never had any problem with that; I think maybe some companies do. But like I say, as far as these people, they didn’t ever have no problem with it.
RW: You know, you don’t hear this a whole lot, but you do every now and again it makes the new: cattle rustling. Have you guys ever had any trouble with that out in this neck of the woods?
BS: I don’t think we’ve had cattle rustling, as far as somebody picking them up and taking them; but we’ve had cattle shot and killed out on the open range.
RW: Tell me about that.
BS: Oh, you just usually find them one, two, three, five days, a month later, you know; just depends on how scattered they are out in the hills, and you know, you don’t get around to – you’ve got something out on 10,000 acres –
RW: Right. Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 21
BS: You don’t run in to it, you know.
RW: Um-hmm. What’s your opinion? Do you think it’s a mistake, somebody doing it on purpose?
MS: Take the book.
BS: I think sometimes – I mean, some of those animals were – they’d taken part of their – like the hind-quarters, or something like that. So I mean, I do think they did take it for food.
RW: Uh-huh.
BS: And then I think other times they were shot just for target practice, so to speak, and just left to lay. So, we’ve had both.
[30:07]
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: And we’ve had the sheriff out, over the years, on and off. But I mean, as far as finding anybody – never; never.
RW: Do you ever run with anybody else when you are sending your cows?
BS: Oh, yeah.
RW: I mean, I’m assuming other people are sending their cows. Have you ever had any trouble with diseases, or your cattle coming back in with, you know, bringing weeds back onto your place, that they picked up somewhere else?
BS: Hmm, about the only thing I can think of as far as – not disease, but we had some sheep people up here to Avon, that brought in that medusa head.
RW: I’ve heard of that.
BS: And they – that’s kind of spread around on the property.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: The neighbors around.
RW: Right.
BS: But really, as far as diseases – none. I guess maybe one time we did: in the late ‘70s we had some cows with brucellosis that did come in; it was our neighbors, and we did have to get rid of the whole herd – calves and everything.
RW: Oh, wow. Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 22
BS: I mean, even the baby calves; had to slaughter them all. And that’s when we had maybe – oh, maybe 75 cows.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: At that time; but we did have – that was in the late ‘70s. But we did have to dispose of all the animals. We tested them for brucellosis for about a full year, but could never get rid of it.
RW: So then you just – that’s got to hurt.
BS: Oh, yeah; um-hmm.
RW: With ranching – one of the things I’ve been hearing many, many times is a deep connection to the lifestyle with families. Has that been?
[Phone ringing]
How has that been – especially, MarJean, with you and Sharell, coming into this lifestyle – what do you feel about it? The agriculture and the connection to the animals and the land?
MS: That is a very good life to teach your kids how to work, how to do things, you know. We worked as a family; we used to go up in the morning, and we’d drop each person off at a different place to move sprinkler pipe. And then the guy at the top, he’d come down and pick us up, and then we’d come home, and have breakfast, and milk the cows, or get on with the daily do. But ranching and raising your kids on a farm is fantastic; they really learn to work and just turn out to be good kids [laughs].
RW: Are your kids getting some of those opportunities? I know you said your girls are helping out, are they kind of having that agricultural background as part of their experience?
[33:07]
BS: Well I think to some extent, but I wished it would have been more.
RW: How many children do you guys –
BS: I have two boys and three girls.
RW: MarJean, you read over these questions; are there some things that you’ve been thinking in your mind about: about the experience of ranching with families, with your business?
MS: Hmm, not really; I think you’ve pretty well covered it [laughs].
RW: Well I always try and end our interviews with asking folks – what do you see of the future of ranching in the Intermountain West, but also globally? Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 23
BS: I think it’s going to continue to decrease. I think it will – the larger operations will get larger, and the smaller ones will quit. I still think that will happen in years to come. And I just think that the smaller people – I mean, how can you afford to buy a $150,000 swather, you know, type deal.
RW: Right.
BS: And your farming 200 acres, you know, it won’t work. So like I say, you either got to hire that out, or you know, quit type-deal. So I do think there will be more consolidation to come.
RW: In this area here, I’ve noticed myself (in Cache Valley, but in all the places I’ve gone), but especially in Cache Valley, a lot of the agricultural land has changed to –
MS: Houses.
RW: Housing developments, and other kinds of things that – as someone said to me once, “It’s the last crop.”
BS: Yeah.
RW: How do you see that – especially out in your neck of the woods?
BS: I do see in Cache Valley that it will become more people and more houses. But people – like you’ve been interviewing in the Randolph/Woodruff area – I don’t see that happening over there at all. Because I just don’t think many people are going to live over there, period (not unless some business, you know, take root up over there, and provide jobs).
RW: Um-hmm.
[35:19]
BS: Or Park Valley or Grouse Creek, or any of that; I mean, I think that’s – that’s where cattle is still going to be. But as far as Cache Valley, I don’t see – I mean, I think Smithfield Auction could close, easy, in five years (because there’s no cattle).
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: You know, in the valley.
RW: A question associated with that – how have you seen regulations change? Whether they’re BLM and Forest changes, or just in the industry? Regulations – have they helped, hindered? How is that?
BS: I would say more hindrance than help.
RW: And how so? Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 24
BS: I think just more regulations; I mean, just one quick example is like having a health certificate on a steer (I mean to go across the state lines). I mean, a buyer is not going to buy an unhealthy animal, so why should we have a health certificate? I mean it’s not something that’s going to reproduce, so why should we – I mean, I can see it (maybe) on a female.
RW: Um-hmm?
BS: But on a steer – why should we have a health certificate?
RW: And so another effort, probably another fee?
BS: Right; a veterinarian is going to charge you to come out and look at them.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: A farm call is $50-100, and then write you a health certificate for another $35, you know. So I mean, that’s just one example right there.
RW: Uh-huh. Well with this long period, you know – it sounds like, MarJean, you’ve been on this place for a long time.
MS: Long time [laughs].
RW: What do you hope with this piece of ground, and this area – for the future?
MS: I hate to see them build houses on all this, here good agriculture land around here. Because a lot of people have put a lot of time and effort in their life into it, and they just sell it for money [laughs]. I think that’s just what they’re after, is more of the money, rather than keep the land for grazing, and for the cattle. Myself, I think – I’m like Bryan: I think it’s going to end, because the little guy can’t hang on.
[37:42]
RW: Um-hmm. Have you guys ever worked with any – I don’t know; there’s a lot of organizations I’ve been hearing other people talking about: easements, and different things, to keep their land in trusts, or in something so it doesn’t get developed.
MS: Um-hmm.
BS: My brother-in-law puts his farm ground and range ground in trust type-deal. He can sell it, but it can’t be built on. Yeah, he can sell it, but it can’t be built on.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: So he can still run cattle on it. And like I say, he doesn’t really own the property, per se, because they sold it and got money out of it. But like I say, them or their family, or they could sell it; it just can’t be developed on. Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 25
RW: I see.
BS: And there are other people around that have definitely done that.
RW: What would be the advantage of somebody doing that? And what would a person purchasing it – what would be their reasoning for purchasing land?
BS: Oh, I think the reason why they would purchase it is just for open space. I mean, some of these – like the Sierra Club –
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: Or, something like that.
RW: Sure.
BS: Or some of these hunting outfits would purchase it, to leave it – so you might say the word “natural” type-deal.
RW: Right.
BS: So it’s left in that state. So there are groups that are willing to do that.
RW: Um-hmm.
BS: To purchase the land, so it’s not developed on.
RW: I see.
BS: But no, that’s happened around here in the valley; um-hmm.
RW: Well, I really appreciate you both letting me come. Especially Bryan – you’ve had (I’m sure) a very long day –
[Laughing]
BS: Just typical.
RW: Typical, long. Wow.
[Laughter]
If it’s a typical ranch day, it started very early and –
[Laughter]
So thank you. But I just want to let you – if there is something that I haven’t – do you want to say anything else, before I turn off? Ranch Family Oral History Project: MarJean and Bryan Summers Page 26
BS: Nope, I think I’m good.
MS: I think it was okay [laughs].
RW: Alright, thank you.
[End recording – 39.41]