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Inflated Scores

I noticed many people here are commenting that some of the scores were inflated. Well, that often happens at Nationals in an Olympic year. I remember watching the US championships in 1988 when Brian Boitano got a string of 6.0s for a rather flawed performance. Even Dick Button commented that it was a bit inflated. It's really nothing new for the judges to be a little generous before the Olympics. The team looks great. I am sure they will make us all proud.

I noticed many people here are commenting that some of the scores were inflated. Well, that often happens at Nationals in an Olympic year. I remember watching the US championships in 1988 when Brian Boitano got a string of 6.0s for a rather flawed performance. Even Dick Button commented that it was a bit inflated. It's really nothing new for the judges to be a little generous before the Olympics. The team looks great. I am sure they will make us all proud.

I don't think I debate that these programs are great. Chan and Rochette both put down some solid programs with lots of triples. I think everyone is just wondering what those performances would do internationally.

I feel the U.S Nationals judging (so far) doesn't seem super inflated. You have Frank Carroll being quoted that Lysacek isn't getting high enough PCS scores to send the Olympic folks a message.

I don't think I debate that these programs are great. Chan and Rochette both put down some solid programs with lots of triples. I think everyone is just wondering what those performances would do internationally.

I feel the U.S Nationals judging (so far) doesn't seem super inflated. You have Frank Carroll being quoted that Lysacek isn't getting high enough PCS scores to send the Olympic folks a message.

I saw Lysacek's performance and thought his scores were plenty high. I wasn't particularly impressed with him. Or Weir.

I don't think I debate that these programs are great. Chan and Rochette both put down some solid programs with lots of triples. I think everyone is just wondering what those performances would do internationally.

I feel the U.S Nationals judging (so far) doesn't seem super inflated. You have Frank Carroll being quoted that Lysacek isn't getting high enough PCS scores to send the Olympic folks a message.

Abbott scored about 26 points more than his personal best internationally. While I have not seen his skate and it certianly sounds like he skated lights out from the report I would still say that the US marks are every bit as inflated as everyone is claiming other Nationals are.

Yeah, it's not as if anyone was trying to hide the fact that the scores were inflated. The broadcasters said it live on the air, it was in countless newspaper articles, and even the skaters said they didn't deserve the marks. However, all of our champions laid down incredible skates so it wasn't as if they skated like crap to get those marks either.

Abbott scored about 26 points more than his personal best internationally. While I have not seen his skate and it certianly sounds like he skated lights out from the report I would still say that the US marks are every bit as inflated as everyone is claiming other Nationals are.

Actually, of all the nationals completed so far, U.S was the most fairly judged and close to what the international judges will give. Abott skated clean and light out on both his SP and LP. His short was only 87+ and given what Evan and Dai got at GPF, it was fair. Chan on the other hand, , he stepped out of 3A and only did 3+2 and got over 90. Plushy at least did 4+3 and Russian national give out additional 4 points for doing a quad.
Abbott LP had a quad and 8 triples, and Chan with 8 triples and step out and some shaky landing still managed to score 177+ score.

No-one likes it . Everyone knows it happens. If one country does it the others sort of have to follow , so as not to put their skaters at a disadvantage, in case the international judges are influenced by the inflations. But really ,everyone's in on the joke... ( sigh)

I've taped the NBC coverage but haven't been able to watch yet, however , it seems to me that the US has a number of skaters who are competitive with each other at the top level. This would make it more difficult for the judges to play around....In Canada , if Patrick is on at all , there's no-one who can touch him at the moment. His competition is all at the international level. If messages must be sent ( sigh again), that's where they have to go. Everyone knows he's had a hell of a year , but he's definitely on the way back, and notice is being served. I'm sure they don't want the international judges to write him off beforehand based on his one appearance at Skate Canada.

I wish it didn't happen , but won't let it spoil my enjoyment. Just glad to see Patrick looking more like himself.

Actually, of all the nationals completed so far, U.S was the most fairly judged and close to what the international judges will give. Abott skated clean and light out on both his SP and LP. His short was only 87+ and given what Evan and Dai got at GPF, it was fair. Chan on the other hand, , he stepped out of 3A and only did 3+2 and got over 90. Plushy at least did 4+3 and Russian national give out additional 4 points for doing a quad.
Abbott LP had a quad and 8 triples, and Chan with 8 triples and step out and some shaky landing still managed to score 177+ score.

In the short Patrick did not step out of his axel...he landed it cleanly.

Actually, after studying the protocols, I find that Chan's only overscored about 5 points in the SP.

His 3F should have -2 GOE, instead of -0.5. His 3Lz/2T had a slightly wonky landing on the 3Lz, it should have a lower GOE than the +1 he got, maybe +0.5 taking into account his difficult entrance. The hefty +GOE on his footwork sequences, however, are richly deserved. As for his PCS, there are some components where imperfect jumps should lower the value as per some ISU memo or other, but overall, Chan's superiority in his skating was on full and vivid display, and at most I'd lower his PCS to 40. The things judges should look for in the PCS are spelled out by the ISU regulations, and Chan exemplified all of them in this particular performance.

There's a lot of focus on Chan's botched jumps in the SP, but people overlook the fact that he got level 4 on all his other elements. Those points add up. Throw in the good GOE for his footwork and the well deserved PCS, and I'd say a score of around 85 is fair. So 90.14 really isn't that outrageous.

Abbott scored about 26 points more than his personal best internationally. While I have not seen his skate and it certianly sounds like he skated lights out from the report I would still say that the US marks are every bit as inflated as everyone is claiming other Nationals are.

That's because Abbott skated that much better than he has ever skated. Perhaps it behooves you to actually watch all those skates in question before you declare it a case of overscoring. And really, it's disingenuous to bring up a competition in another country as some sort of justification. "So-and-so is doing it so why can't I" is an excuse that shouldn't be used by anyone past seven. Of course, it doesn't even work for seven year olds.

That's because Abbott skated that much better than he has ever skated. Perhaps it behooves you to actually watch all those skates in question before you declare it a case of overscoring. And really, it's disingenuous to bring up a competition in another country as some sort of justification. "So-and-so is doing it so why can't I" is an excuse that shouldn't be used by anyone past seven. Of course, it doesn't even work for seven year olds.

That's because Abbott skated that much better than he has ever skated. Perhaps it behooves you to actually watch all those skates in question before you declare it a case of overscoring. And really, it's disingenuous to bring up a competition in another country as some sort of justification. "So-and-so is doing it so why can't I" is an excuse that shouldn't be used by anyone past seven. Of course, it doesn't even work for seven year olds.

All I'm am trying to point out is some posters cannot state that Chan was grossly over marked because he exceeded his personal best and yet turn around and ignore that fact that some other skater also exceeded theirs substantially. We all know there is a tendency to over inflation at National events compared to Internationals. At least no one in either of these events was being given 10's.

So , it 's not a matter of whether it should happen ( I'm sure everyone thinks it shouldn't.) but recognizing that , realistically , it does happen, to a greater or lesser degree , pretty well universally. It's a vicious cycle.

The question is, what to do about it? There was a possible solution suggested by a group of skating insiders following the Salt Lake meltdown and the infamous foot-tapping world's, that I thought might have some merit. ( I've heard Tracy Wilson explain it a number of times, but haven't heard it mentioned much in the last couple of years.)

Roughly , the idea would be to have all international judges hired directly by the ISU , and be answerable only to that body, bound to uphold a universal standard. They would have to demonstrate a certain level of expertise to be hired . They would owe nothing to any national federation , and their jobs would be on the line if their performance was poor or seen to be politically motivated.