This may sound a little bad or weird to you but I would really like to discuss on it. Dirty thinking

Dirty thinking is natural or it is the result of the environment we have ?

Now this is a fact, that which people Do bad, also suffer bad. So, sometimes, when too much of bad happens with me, I feel that it could be due to the dirty mind I have, which thinks bad. And hence God punishes me for thinking bad.

I don't know if the feeling is bad or what. Because one of my friend is such that he don't speak a single bad word out of his mouth. He even don't m*sturbate (he said)...

So I am confused that this all feeling is bad or what ? Do more people like me exists in world or I am the only one bad ?

Bluedoll

ankurthakur wrote:

Hello Guyz,

So I am confused that this all feeling is bad or what ? Do more people like me exists in world or I am the only one bad ?

First of all, I think you could discuss this better at another site or leave God out of the discussion. This site has a high ratio of atheists that will respond harshly to that part your question - that might not help you sort this out.

I think in general it is not good to compare your self to others (your friend, or others) expect to see differences in people and learn from others but it is how you feel about yourself as an individual that counts.

What you need to define (for yourself) is what is bad and what is good.

I tend to think of something not as dirty or clean but what suits my lifestyle and values.

One example, lets use art or pornography. I will find one appealing and be attracted to it and the other repulsive.
A problem, if there is a problem of confusion (bad or good) is when art seems to be more like pornography and pornography seems more like art. So what to do? How to judge? How to choose?

I tend to look for things that are helpful, supportive and reasonable so to decide if they are good or not for me. In general, I mean socially and with my own conscience I attach love to all things. Love of others and love for myself (respect and care). If love is not there then it is garbage.

I love art it is wonderfully made.

Hope this has helped.

deanhills

Bluedoll wrote:

What you need to define (for yourself) is what is bad and what is good.

Makes me think of that saying: Nothing is good, nothing is bad, but thinking makes it so. Like having a wonderful dream and enjoying everything in it. And then when one wakes up try and recollect it and then discover that the recollection is not all that wonderful in the analysis of the details.

Nameless

ankurthakur wrote:

Now this is a fact, that which people Do bad, also suffer bad.

Well, that's sadly not an actual fact so there's your first problem. As for the sexual ("dirty") thoughts themselves - do remember that reproduction is exactly how humans and every other animal species doesn't immediately die out, so yes, frequent consideration of the topic and involved acts is the very definition of natural. The only point at which it should be considered bad is if you started harassing others because of it or it was seriously interfering with your ability to work / finish personal projects. Also, because this thread needs it,

ankurthakur wrote:

I don't know if the feeling is bad or what.

That's what she said!

rRice

I think it is absolutely natural for every human being. All thoughts do not appear out of nowhere, they all have a ground, even the most dirty ones, but there is nothing shameful about that if they are just thoughts and don't influence your behavior, don't affect other people.

Ankhanu

Sexual thoughts (assuming dirty means sexual, as it tends to in general use) are completely natural and nearly universal. To desire individuals or the act in general is normal and natural... of course, acting impulsively upon those thoughts can lead to some serious trouble, especially if the attention is unwanted. We can't control the impulsive thoughts we have, but we can control how we respond to them, and we are responsible for our actions.

For me, it's Ok just as long that these thoughts has nothing to do with rape or minors or seriously hurting someone in your fantasy. Empathy and guilt should start in your thoughts; Although you are really not hurting anyone, there must be terribly wrong with you otherwise. Simulating consensual sex with the person you are attracted with in your mind is fine, I think.

tidruG

First off, there's nothing "bad" about having dirty thoughts. If no one had dirty thoughts, there would be no procreation!

Secondly, dirty thoughts can sometimes lead to people doing silly things without thinking about them. Some guys lose respect for girls and only treat them as objects of physical desire. As long as you don't go down this path, there's nothing wrong with having dirty thoughts.

ankurthakur wrote:

He even don't m*sturbate

This is for another thread, but there's nothing wrong with masturbation, as long as you don't go overboard and kill yourself doing it.

loremar wrote:

For me, it's Ok just as long that these thoughts has nothing to do with rape or minors or seriously hurting someone in your fantasy.

I'm quite undecided on this, actually. While we normally term such thoughts "sick" or "twisted", I think there's a school of thought that says that as long as you fantasize about it and get it out of the way without acting on those impulses, you're fine.

ankurthakur

Now I am really getting your thoughts and updating myself to live the life more easily.

I think(sure) that you're right. If there is nothing which has to do with bad or harassing someone, then it must not be called as bad.

Although, you people explained it very clearly for me in deep. I thanks to you guyz and gals...

catscratches

loremar wrote:

Although you are really not hurting anyone, there must be terribly wrong with you otherwise.

I think it's pretty much universal to at some point fantasize about badly hurting/killing someone you don't like. How are those thoughts any different?

Just as you're able to realize that killing someone for real is neither a good thing or something you'd enjoy, the same applies for rape (whether forcible or statuatory) or violent, to the point of permanent damage, sex.

Bikerman

There is some convincing (not conclusive) evidence that repeated exposure to violent fantasies DOES have a detrimental effect, when considered over large populations. Obviously most people are not going to have a fantasy in which they kick, punch, slap or otherwise hurt (or worse) their fantasy partner and then go out and do it for real - that would be a silly suggestion. I think the general idea is more that a constant exposure to extreme fantasycan be dangerous, because:

a) Human nature being what it is, people like to push to the extreme, just to see what it looks like. You start out imagining a bit of bondage and want to see just how disgusting simulated rape is, so you check that out....before long you are getting into deep, potentially illegal and very dangerous waters....

b) Any exposure to extreme stimulus normally causes some desensitisation to future similar stimulae. The mind looks after us by making sure that the next time we are in a 'shocking' scenario, it will not have as great a potentially dangerous effect on us (slowing us down). This is pretty similar to the idea of a vaccine promoting resistance to a nasty virus by stimulating that immune response using a weaker and relatively harmless virus that mimics the nasty one. So the more extreme the fantasy, video or picture, the more extreme the next 'dose' has to be to achieve the same shock/tittilation...again a dangerous spiral downwards....

This is quite funny cause me and my friend who is female and I am male... we were talking and then it ended with with her thinking that I was "aroused" and she was like now I have dirty thoughts in my head...She felt like that it was a bad thing, but I think it's normal this is the era we live in and these thoughts are going to be more and more likely to appear and everything. The next night she had a dream about me and I will leave the details out, but even her who doesn't like the dirty thoughts still dreamed about them. We are quite open with each other and we are not even dating so that is why I know some of the stuff that she thinks.

Religion or no religion... It doesn't matter people! I am Catholic and I am friends with an Atheist. We get along just fine.

Another example Martin Luther. He wanted to reform the Catholic Church because he thought it was doing some things wrong. That was his opinion and it was against his own religion. All he wanted to do was reform it not create the Lutheran Church. Everyone views are different and for most people religion doesn't play that much of a role anymore.

Ankhanu

Asap170 wrote:

... I think it's normal this is the era we live in and these thoughts are going to be more and more likely to appear and everything.

I see no reason to assume that having base thoughts with frequency is in any way a recent development. From what we know of history, the ways that courts, wars, religious ceremony/rites, and intrigue played out, it seems to have been pretty common. Sex has always been (and likely will always be) a driving aspect of the human psyche... modern times has nothing to do with it. To suggest that it is an aspect of modern times seems like pure conjecture to me.

loremar

catscratches wrote:

Just as you're able to realize that killing someone for real is neither a good thing or something you'd enjoy, the same applies for rape (whether forcible or statuatory) or violent, to the point of permanent damage, sex.

You have a point but I'm not sure if people realize that. If you get aroused by killing a little girl in your head, what's the chances that you get aroused watching a youtube video of a little girl getting crashed under a wheel? What's the chances that you'd predict that you won't feel sorry when you'd kill someone but be able to predict that you'd get pleasure from it? To actually sense danger in your actions you have to at least be able to simulate empathy/guilt in your head. I'm just wondering whether it is possible that a person can actually feel no empathy/guilt on an image in their head and at the same time feel empathy/guilt if they were thinking about a real person. In terms of empathy/guilt, can a person distinguish reality from fantasy?

Let's say, there are no laws or punishment on acting violent fantasies in real life. Would you be able to feel empathy/guilt when doing it for real? Can you feel empathy/guilt at the same time feel pleasure in doing it? If you can't, then what will stop you from doing it in real life?

spinout

Take all video games that includes killing at first sight! Isn't that a great indoctrination on young people have the wrong thinking... add that to dirty thinking... are we getting good thoughts here??

No, dirty thinking are generally good thinking since it actually makes the blood circulate more and keep us healty!

Ankhanu

There is separation between fantasy and real desire, and that doesn't quite seem to be noted here What we fantasize about may not have actual correlation with something we wish to actually experience... hell, in some cases it may not even be physically possible

In fantasy, we might envision circumstances that put us in unusual power dynamics, whether unusually dominant or helpless, that we don't actually want to experience. For instance, rape fantasies aren't uncommon for either men or women, though for different rationales. For men, generally, a rape fantasy is about control and gratification, satisfying desire without concern for her satisfaction, whereas for women it's about sexual fulfillment without being responsible for any depravity that might be associated... it's ok, she didn't actually want it to happen, so she's not responsible for the pleasure it produced... Of course, in reality, neither the male nor the female actually desire rape, and the actual experience would be traumatizing and/or cold rather than pleasurable (particularly for the woman).

Fantasy doesn't often lead to real-world pursuit... and when it does, it's usually associated with other social/emotional problems rather than the fantasy itself. It's a little like blaming the Beatles' music for Charles Manson.

Bluedoll

I am 100% in agreement with Bikerman on this, he is a well educated man. johans got it right, clear and simple.

Everyone is responsible for their actions and their thoughts. Ok, not everyone is going to turn into a serial killer, we know that and of course it really depends on what a person means by “dirty”. There are good fantasies. If someone has a fantasy connected to rape, torture or something “bad” and finds themselves alone with a person they fantasized about, it could come out as a facial expression and we do pick up on facial expressions, body language or subtle negative remarks. So, not so bad? I think something not nice will often get a dirty (you pig) look in return.

I think, it is ok to say something is wrong or right Dean and we have to learn what it is. It’s not always easy. Good leads to more good and bad gets uglier. I’m not an angel.

tidruG

Bikerman wrote:

There is some convincing (not conclusive) evidence that repeated exposure to violent fantasies DOES have a detrimental effect, when considered over large populations.

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. When we repeat these fantasies so much in our own heads, we could potentially get over the shock and idea of these being wrong. We get dulled (real word?) to overexposure.

In fact, taking point 2 of your post, Bikerman, and running with it ... I've read reports of men having sexual problems because of overexposure to porn. When young boys masturbate only upon visual stimuation through pornographic material, they sometimes go into the extreme hardcore kind of porn, and they crave more and more extreme action (for lack of better words). They then reach a point where they face erectile dysfunction, and cannot have sex unless they get porn.

loremar wrote:

I'm just wondering whether it is possible that a person can actually feel no empathy/guilt on an image in their head and at the same time feel empathy/guilt if they were thinking about a real person.

The answer is "yes", and I speak from experience. No details will be shared, though, and rest assured it had nothing to do with little girls or physical abuse.

Ankhanu wrote:

What we fantasize about may not have actual correlation with something we wish to actually experience... hell, in some cases it may not even be physically possible

Excellent point! Some of my fantasies are fantasies because I don't have to physically experience them In fact, I'm pretty damn sure that I don't want to experience them!

Quote:

It's a little like blaming the Beatles' music for Charles Manson.

They did inpsire, to a certain extent, Black Sabbath, though

Nameless

I don't know about the desensitization thing always being a risk, guys. When I briefly fantasise about straight up punching an annoying coworker in the face, the discrepancies between my real world actions and my fantasy actions tends to only remind me exactly how incapable I am of straight up punching anyone in the face, thereby reinforcing my own lack of straight up face punching!

deanhills

Nameless wrote:

I don't know about the desensitization thing always being a risk, guys. When I briefly fantasise about straight up punching an annoying coworker in the face, the discrepancies between my real world actions and my fantasy actions tends to only remind me exactly how incapable I am of straight up punching anyone in the face, thereby reinforcing my own lack of straight up face punching!

Now this I can relate to ....

kaling

everything has benefits and harms
the point is to make good use of it and enjoy it
while minimizing the harms

wellerchap

I'd say it's human nature, and is mainly dictated by the amount of chemicals in yuor make up as to the frequency/strength of those thoughts.
We all have a duty to keep on top of such thoughts though & not to let them rule what we do.

Coen

Assuming dirty means sexual, as most people in this thread have done, I would say it is natural. People will always fantasize about a wide variety of subjects and virtually all human beings share a natural curiosity towards the unknown. Especially on a younger age, sex as a whole is included in this unknown, and on a later age only certain aspects of it may/will be.

Fantasizing is natural. Thinking about sex is natural and fantasizing about it is as well, dirty or not. For people who are mentally stable the danger of them actually exhibiting said behavior seems minimal (at least to me). Fact is, nearly everyone does it and I would regard fighting said thoughts to be fighting part of yourself.

pauline5765

Generally, dirty thinking is natural. It has always been a part of human nature. However, there will also always be a factor of environment and the effect of the "environment" you're in varies on people. Probably like a person grew up in a very religious environment that he came to the point that dirty thinking is a sin or whatever. This hinders the natural sexual instincts and potentially have psychological effects on a person.

BigGeek

WOW this topic drew a lot of responses, and it is so good to see that so many understand that sexual thoughts are normal and healthy. Of course taken to the extreme they can be difficult to handle for some.

What I mean by that is that thinking about having sex with someone you desire is normal, wanting to explore that intimacy by trying new healthy things is also normal.

When you start to have fantasies that shock you, and you can't control, you might have some issues to deal with.

I do agree with the fact that watching too much violence or pornography desensitizes people to their effects and is mentally as well as psychologically damaging. And there is also the point of obsession, where people can become obsessed with mental images and thoughts of sex and violence.

I do not think god.....if there is such a thing, punishes us for sexual or violent thoughts, and I do think that a belief that a supreme being has that sort of power can by psychologically damaging as well.

Also the point about being able to feel empathy/guilt over our actions....that is the definition of a psychopath, a person incapable of feeling guilt or empathy over their actions, or for another.

So in a nutshell, sexual thoughts are normal, and healthy, and violent thoughts to some extent are normal and healthy, as long as they remain exactly that....thoughts, and a healthy person has the ability to feel guilt and empathy and that puts an emotional and physical stop toward acting these things out in the world on other humans. The people that cross that line can be defined as mentally unstable and unhealthy by any psychological standards.

chasbeen

This topic is exploding because we tend to leave these deep thoughts undiscussed.
It's certainly an interesting subject and everyone is mainlining on it
To be candid I was brought up in a religious family and did not know how to handle it when I was in my teens
I did not let that happen to my kiddies because my early years as an adult were lonely and confused ones.
I'm a lot older now but respect these thoughts which are interesting but they are definitely not wrong.

rjraaz

Anyone tell me that, who decided that, what is bad or good; wrong or right.

what are the measure of bad and good?

I think , if a large amount of people do something is good or right.

chasbeen

No, if a lot of people do something it does not make it right
Most people repress these feelings which is why we suddenly get all this input when the subject arises!

Syryus

Depends on the dirty thinking. There are people who enjoy sharing such thoughts with others who have the same kind of opinions, so I can't really condemn stuff like that. I happen to have them lately while talking to a a certain girl and she's got them to, so we just gotta meet to get rid of them. Nothing bad, nothing wrong.