At first I kind of saw it how you did with the second go around but then thinking about it more, the guy was continuing to be belligerent and who knows if, after getting put away once, the guy might have gone for a weapon? I think Ryan just wanted to cut it off to be certain nobody else got hurt even if it may have been fine to just let the Police come and hang back. Tough decision to make though. And people say BJJ has no place in self defense. Ryan Hall trains purely for sport. Sure seems like he can defend himself.

Edited by Stormdragon (03/25/1208:48 PM)

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Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

First he takes a guy who can barely walk to the ground and sits on him. One of his friends helps him hold the guy down so he can get off...flip him over and hold in face down till the police arrive would be a better solution. Second, he assaults the drunk from behind by grabbing him and throwing him out of the building. I don't see any great examples of self defense, or BJJ or anything else. I don't see him get "attacked" either. A martial artist would walk away from a drunk.

The drunk man was belligerent and showing hostile intent, not only that but was inches away facing Hall, and between Hall and the door (you know the whole walking away part). But I guess good self defense is letting someone attack you first right? Sorry but in reality someone who has a clear threat between them and escape (or the safety of their friends) make the first move which Hall did in a very controlled manner (oh wow who tackled the guy and held him down yeah that's a real savage thing to do alright, yep true barbarian there). And he doesn't "throw him out of the building" but takes hold of the guy who is continuing to be belligerent, applies a choke till he is no longer a threat then lets him go. It's not assault just because you say it is, if it was assault I'm sure the Hall would be in jail. And who exactly are you to judge what a martial artist is or should do? Oh one final closing note, do you know how many "drunks who can barely walk" have killed people in the past? A lot, I'll get you some statistics if you'd like. Too many times people get taken out when they failed to take action on an aggressive person.

Edited by Stormdragon (03/26/1211:35 AM)

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Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

1. If you see a threat don't stay seated and let it come to you. Avoid, evade.2. Who am I to judge? Why not-you have. It's called an opinion.I thought that is why we have the forum-for open discussion, to express opinion, to hear view points other than our own-or am I wrong?3. At 8:54 you see the "attacker" apologizing...if he had "attacked" him shouldn't he be in jail?

It is unclear whether the drunk was ever charged (at the very least for public disorder). Additionally, the drunk did slap his friend. Who knows if he was prepared to do more. Certainly the drunk was being aggressive.

I agree with Storm, acting in an aggressive, threatening manner is assault. In the UK at least, threatening a person and taking actions to enact that threat allows a the targeted person to act in self-defence. You don't have to throw a punch to be attacking a person (legally speaking).

Re the lack of great BJJ... double-leg takedown, mount control, choke from the back???? I don't know how much BJJ could've been used there.

Two other points to make:

1) Ryan Hall isn't a big guy. He usually competes in the 154lb (70Kg) division. Considering his size I thought he controlled the guy well.

2) Someone else on another forum made this point and it is worth considering: Ryan knew this was being filmed, and was amongest his peers. He may, as a black belt and professional MA instructor, have felt pressure to "do something" in that situation. Not saying he did the wrong thing, just worth considering there may have been other factors at play here (although I still think his actions were mainly about protecting himself).

Assaulted and attacked are two different things. Assault can be done by words or actions. Attacked indicates battery or an attempted battery. The video title uses the word, "attacked"-he wasn't. It appears to be an ad for the self defense use of BJJ. In my opinion it isn't much of an ad for the style. The antagonist doesn't appear to be bigger than him-actually they look pretty similar. When he first takes him down you will see his buddy hook his arm around Hall's neck -a reminder not to take people to the ground when they have friends around who may interfere with your ground game.

Again, whether he was physically "attacked" first or not is irrelevant in my eyes, the guy showed hostile intent, mental instability due to intoxication and possibly more issues than that, and like Prizewriter said actually struck his own friend, the guy needed to be dealt with physically, waiting till the other guy acts first will get you hurt badly or worse much of the time. As for avoiding and evading, Hall was A. blocked from escape by the guy who was between him and the door and the guy being inches from him and attempting to advance, the guy was controlling position or attempting to at least and B. Hall had friends I'm sure he wanted to watch out for including small females there. That was not a case of avoid and evade. Not everything can be answered with avoid and evade, and I'm one who preaches that more than anything. It's a situation of attempting de-escalation (which it appears Hall tried to though Hall is probably no psych expert with special tricks for that) and if that doesn't decrease the hostility then physical restraint. It's not like Hall beat him senseless, he used non damaging control techniques so whats' the problem? It's exactly what the Police would have done or a security guard. As for BJJ in a situation like that, that's not pertinent to the situation. However it worked. Avoidance is great, and the reason I haven't been in a fight in years, but you also shouldn't be afraid or hesitant to take action.

Oh and my statement about your right to judge was very specifically in regards to you making a factual claim about what a real martial artist would do, and it's not your place to decide what a real martial artist is or would do. No offense but your standard here seems a bit unrealistic if it works for you great but that doesn't mean it's right for everyone in all cases. Back to the usefulness of BJJ, in many cases Hall's tactics would be a bad idea, in this case maybe there were even better specific techniques, but it still worked either way. And while no it wasn't a demonstration of high level BJJ, no one should expect to see more than basic white belt techniques because that's all that was needed to get the job done agaisnt this guy who clearly had no understanding of grappling.

Edited by Stormdragon (03/26/1211:08 PM)

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Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

He should've gotten up and left the diner? Evade how? When someone is 2 inches from your face already there's no room to evade.

Seriously awareness and evasion is great and all but getting the preaching from people who seem to be so so disconnected from reality is really annoying.

First of all his friends are already there where is he going to go? Is he going to run to his car and drive home? Because someone like that isn't going to stop.

And also trying to calmly stand up when someone might/might not attack you is not a wise thing to do...

He reacted perfectly fine and rather than just ''be aware & avoid'' be ''PRE-EMPTIVE'' is the motto here. If someone gets 2 inches from my face and is threatening me verbally while displaying aggressive body language I will take the initiative every time.

In the real world you can't just wait for someone to throw the first punch or back you up against the wall.

For the first minute the "attacker" isn't close to him. I would suggest he get up and get ready to move (evasion/avoidance) rather than sitting and being stuck in his chair "When someone is 2 inches from your face already". If you chose to wait until " someone gets 2 inches from my face and is threatening me verbally while displaying aggressive body language I will take the initiative every time" you are waiting too long for a "pre-emptive" response.They have already closed and can hit you faster than you can react-that's the real world.

P.S. on the choke as a use of force-some juristictions would consider that way above the allowable use of force. In some areas of the country the police can't even do a Lateral vascular neck restrain unless deadly force is justified. I understand that this might not make sense to some of you-BUT you better know the law if your going to defend yourself. Check your state statutes before "choking" people out.