Hello, may I speak to Yahweh? Oh hi, I want my soul back.

It is exceptionally hard to get out of Adonai/Yahweh's clutches. He's not one to relent. I'm still trying to get away from the bastard, really.
I've had some help, but in all reality, it's just switching hands to another entity. We're nothing but cattle to these creatures, really. And the
Christian/Judaic/Islamic God is no better -- probably one of the worst, really. Remember those passages where he says he'll spit out out of his
mouth if you're not to his taste? If that didn't clue you in that these creatures eat things like us, I don't know what would...

Ya get mixed up with spirits and gods -- ANY spirits and gods, be prepared to pay the price...

i think muslims are followers of enlil. they use the sin symbol (crescent moon) and follow enlil's decrees against women. sin, the moon god, was the
son of enlil. you would think from their wars against the catholic church that that makes the catholic church enki followers, but you would be wrong.
the catholic church is also enlil followers posing as enki followers. i think what happens is, they make deals to socially engineer each other's
communities, reap the financial benefits, and then 50 years later, blame it on the survivors and repeat the sequence. an endless chain of revenge
killing.

Actually it's kinda worse than that, in my opinion. Some people say Satan is bad cause he divides, but Yahweh is even worse cause he MULTIPLIES AS
HE DIVIDES. AKA: He multiplies his religion into many branching sects which work further to divide the people, as one tangible example I can give.
Most the people I think are just poor patsies who genuinely believe they've been given the "real" version of it, when I fear they are but as blind
as all the rest...

It's not like the book describes, I will tell you that. If you think this god cares at all about your free-will, you got something coming when you
finally chose to test or defy him.

And as far as those who ask: "WTF? YOU TEST GOD?"

God is supposed to know everything, I am the one who knows nothing. He should know well before he "tests" ME what the end result will be, and me,
knowing little, should be inclined to test HIM, just to ensure he's as good as he and his books claim. Take nothing for granted and all... Unless
of course you blindly believe all that the book tells you without question? Lol. I thought we were here to question EVERYTHING!

Trust me, the moment you step out of line, you'll see exactly how "benevolent" this particular god really is...

and that is my biggest complaint of all. we are so out of the loop, it takes countless years to even scratch the surface, and with our limited brain
capacity, even that falls short of the mark. so when we do come upon a realization of what it means, we have to contend with billions of other people
who either don't care what it says, or do care but refuse to actually study what it means beyond the occasional reading, or take the word of their
particular guru and absolutely refuse to read what the texts are saying. i dunno how anyone could say they're a student of the truth, while tossing
out thousands of years of scientifically verifiable history.

I'm not sure of how anyone but humans divided Jesus' teachings into a bunch of religions. How is that the fault of Jesus exactly? How is it that
people making God seem frightening and punishing is God or Jesus' fault? Your all saying we have free will yet blame these two for not making people
do it right - and intend to blame them for how people have misinterpreted and misunderstood)?

I would say lose the way it was taught to you and learn it the way it was intended. To throw the whole idea of spiritual transcendence away just
because your teachers have done their jobs badly, and to blame unseen forces for this seems completely off base.

I am not going by what some guru or anything told me. These are based on personal experiences with the dude. If others can testify by such things,
then am I not also free to?

Thousands of years of texts are all fine and dandy, but if you put them to the test and they seem to not be all that reflective of what they told you,
then I say hang the texts and keep going by ear -- isn't that kinda what science does? (although these matters are hardly scientific.) If an
outdated model doesn't fit with current theory, the old model is often discarded.

Learn for yourself. It's hard, yeah, but book smarts can't teach you as well as cold, hard first-hand experience.

I'm not sure of how anyone but humans divided Jesus' teachings into a bunch of religions. How is that the fault of Jesus exactly? How is it that
people making God seem frightening and punishing is God or Jesus' fault? Your all saying we have free will yet blame these two for not making people
do it right - and intend to blame them for how people have misinterpreted and misunderstood)?

I would say lose the way it was taught to you and learn it the way it was intended. To throw the whole idea of spiritual transcendence away just
because your teachers have done their jobs badly, and to blame unseen forces for this seems completely off base.

Aww, but then, you see, you're making the error of assuming that I think Yahweh and Jesus are the same, which to me they aren't and aren't even on
the same team, regardless of what the texts say.

It's all a perversion of Yahweh, not Jesus, IMO -- Yahweh even going so far as to try and convince you they are one and the same, which he does with
both images of Jesus I see occurring out there in some way or another.

Whether it was done by humans meddling or not, you do have to ask, who inspired those people to make all those break-offs of religion? Many of these
people claim to be inspired by God, do they not?

Of course that leads to other questions.... people who claim to talk to God who commit murders cause he allegedly told them to and things like
that...

It would seem funny that you would believe in the religion and not that these figures might actually exist and be influencing us...

I am not going by what some guru or anything told me. These are based on personal experiences with the dude. If others can testify by such things,
then am I not also free to?

Thousands of years of texts are all fine and dandy, but if you put them to the test and they seem to not be all that reflective of what they told you,
then I say hang the texts and keep going by ear -- isn't that kinda what science does? (although these matters are hardly scientific.) If an
outdated model doesn't fit with current theory, the old model is often discarded.

Learn for yourself. It's hard, yeah, but book smarts can't teach you as well as cold, hard first-hand experience.

read what i have written in this thread, if you would be so kind. who was asher's asherah? you really don't know what i have studied, nor what i
have learned. you are assuming you do, and that would be the incorrect assumption.

the reason i' m so adamant about all this is because i honestly believe the old testament is telling the truth, but the facts are put together in
such a way that it gives the wrong impression. for example, it gives the impression that the accuser of humankind is the good guy, and the creator
of humankind is the bad guy. that is turned on its head. in the middle of all this, as if that werent confusing enough, the planet is invaded by
some angelic beings who mate with human women creating a hybrid species, that further muddles everything up. the hybrids enslave the humans,
completely destroy the ecosphere of the planet, and then when no food remains, begin eating the people as a food source.

so the guy who created humans, supposedly the bad guy, is also blamed for that. i know this because i use to blame him for it too. then i realized
how little sense the original narrative made when i started asking the really big questions.

one hint was when paul referred to the law as the accuser of man. the accuser is satan.

Incredibly interesting. Who is the immediate authority over these two opposing entities in the spiritual sense?

coldkidc
You have free will - If you don't want the gift of eternal life then you don't have to take it.

Your soul is yours to do with as you wish & you will receive as you sow when the day comes - good or bad.
It really is a lot simpler than you are trying to make it sound.

Your tone sounds hateful - what happened that compelled you to reject the teachings of your youth?

edit on 3-12-2013 by coldkidc because: (no
reason given)

My tone sounds hateful because there is an element of resentment. I reject the teachings of my youth because they are oppressive, limiting and
ultimately made me become stagnant spiritually. What makes you think I don't want eternal life though? Are we not already eternal beings already?
Where did I say I don't believe in Salvation?

ghostfacekilah00
Not sure if serious, OP. I'm a Catholic. All Christians believe in this thing called free will which God or Satan cannot take away from you. You can
choose to leave the Catholic Church at any time just as you can choose to join the Catholic Church at any time. Apparently you are saying that you had
not reached the age of reason, after which you can make a conscious personal decision about your faith, when you were confirmed, so it could be argued
that your confirmation didn't serve the purpose it was supposed to anyway. Regardless, you do not take an irreversible oath forfeiting ownership of
your soul to God during any sacrament. You must not have paid attention or don't remember what is actually said during the sacraments (google: Creed
of Faith - which you say at confirmation). Only you have ownership over your soul.

That is EXACTLY what is going on here. I want to make sure that I own my soul or spirit and not be manipulated by all kinds of parasitical entities
that are fighting over it.

I'm not sure of how anyone but humans divided Jesus' teachings into a bunch of religions. How is that the fault of Jesus exactly? How is it that
people making God seem frightening and punishing is God or Jesus' fault? Your all saying we have free will yet blame these two for not making people
do it right - and intend to blame them for how people have misinterpreted and misunderstood)?

I would say lose the way it was taught to you and learn it the way it was intended. To throw the whole idea of spiritual transcendence away just
because your teachers have done their jobs badly, and to blame unseen forces for this seems completely off base.

Aww, but then, you see, you're making the error of assuming that I think Yahweh and Jesus are the same, which to me they aren't and aren't even on the
same team, regardless of what the texts say.

It's all a perversion of Yahweh, not Jesus, IMO -- Yahweh even going so far as to try and convince you they are one and the same, which he does with
both images of Jesus I see occurring out there in some way or another.

This is the conclusion I have reached as well. Undo's tangent has also inspired interest in me and further research could explain the confusion in
less esoteric but more plausible terms. Thank you everyone for your wonderful input and insightful comments, it's very refreshing to learn form other
people's journeys into liberation.

I assumed they were one in the same so my mistake. I do not believe in any one religion but rather the greater principles. I was also baptized as a
baby. Grew up with all the catholic guilt (enough for 2 lifetimes). I've transformed it though.

I do believe people are inspired - but not to break Jesus' teachings off to confuse people and dilute his very simple messages into a bunch of BS
they only apply to the surface yet fail to actually feel/integrate. A schizophrenic hears voices and calls them a divine spirit or God. Do I believe
they are God? Not a chance.

We can't believe because someone says God tells them to do something this is true. Not a "preacher" (or whatever their title is for their sect),
not the person in the congregation, and not a person who may perform a miracle). You can only know if it came from God if you have a true
understanding of what God is and that needs to be between the two of you.

I suppose it's what one decides to do. I chose to give up believing entirely for a period of time. I think I had to get that distance in order to
figure out there were pieces of truth within all of the untruths. Looking back - it was 100% other people's perceptions that made something good feel
so awful. Jesus nor God had anything to do with it. And I'm not sure what the difference is between Yahweh and Jesus is. I'll have to look that up
in the morning unless you can describe.

the first 2 verses that mention the creation of the adam, are disguised in the english translation of the king james version. not sure about other
versions. how they did this was they translated adam to be man in the first reference to the creation of male and female elohim copies, who were
called adam. the verse in fact, calls them adam, not man. this gives the impression that the elohim copies were human. they were not. adam doesn't
become synonymous with man/human, till he's procreative.

this gives them leeway to say that the accuser of "man" is the serpent. whereas in reality, the serpent is dna, given to the first adam clones of the
elohim, to make them procreative. then the accuser of man shows up and says, oh crap, they are procreating (knowing=having sex. adam KNEW his wife
and she begat). and then the text describes him bringing the issue to the council and gives us a little taste of his accusation. and then we get hit
with the nerf bat.

what's jesus' solution? restore the tree of life. what's it say in the end of revelation? we gain access to the tree of life, which a cabalist will
say is a bunch of geometric shapes and numbers, but which the text reveals, right from the get go, is full body regeneration - otherwise known as our
perfected bodies that were stolen from us by the accuser of the human, not the accuser of the first adam who weren't human.

It's as different as the Old and New Testament, in my opinion. I mean, number one, we are told God does not change, and supposedly the Bible is his
inerrant word, and yet Jesus and he are one and the same. If you really look at all of that, something does not add up. Either God changed when he
became Jesus, cause you know, Jesus preaches about forgiveness and stuff and other things while the God of the Old Testament is all about wrath and
vengeance and strict blind obedience and all that, or if it is true like the Bible says, and God does not change, then they cannot be the same person,
that or the Bible itself is completely wrong.

In all reality, I find the comparison of the God of the Old Testament to Jesus as different as day and night, and if God does not change, then they
can't be the same person.

ghostfacekilah00
Not sure if serious, OP. I'm a Catholic. All Christians believe in this thing called free will which God or Satan cannot take away from you. You can
choose to leave the Catholic Church at any time just as you can choose to join the Catholic Church at any time. Apparently you are saying that you had
not reached the age of reason, after which you can make a conscious personal decision about your faith, when you were confirmed, so it could be argued
that your confirmation didn't serve the purpose it was supposed to anyway. Regardless, you do not take an irreversible oath forfeiting ownership of
your soul to God during any sacrament. You must not have paid attention or don't remember what is actually said during the sacraments (google: Creed
of Faith - which you say at confirmation). Only you have ownership over your soul.

That is EXACTLY what is going on here. I want to make sure that I own my soul or spirit and not be manipulated by all kinds of parasitical entities
that are fighting over it.

What's going on here? No parasitic entities are fighting over your soul. The forces of good and evil can influence your will if you let them, but you
still choose where your soul goes in the end. You have complete ownership over it. Nowhere in the Bible or Catholic Church doctrine does it claim that
God or anyone else besides yourself has any ownership over your soul.

Btw lupodigubbio, thank you for acknowledging what I thought to be the most relevant and factually based responses to your OP on this thread which had
been completely ignored up to that point by people who mostly seem to have forgotten what the subject of the thread was. Maybe I'm biased and arrogant
for touting my own response, and I'm sure it will be perceived that way by some, but I swear some of the people on here don't even take in what
anybody else says and just talk about what they want to talk about. Hard to have a constructive thread here when you have to sort through so much
randomness.

Sorry ghostface, if you think I was one of those that took it off topic. I didn't mean to. There were so many people talking about different things
already, I guess I didn't know where to bear my focus. I'll try to get back on track...

lupodigubbio
Like many of you I was chosen into baptism by my parents without my knowledge when I was a baby.
I was forced to perform the vile ritualistic sacrament of Communion when I was a child.
I was lured into confirmation when I was a teen.
and then the worst happened...

As a young adult, through heavy indoctrination and peer pressure I blindly asked Yahweh to become my Lord and owner of my soul. I did this several
times. I even believed the bible and committed the terrible sin of calling it the word of God in its entirety.

After many years of forcing myself to believe the great lie, even though something inside of me always knew better and kept part of my spirit safe
from the Demiurgic influences, I decided to abandon religion and eventually explore the more gnostic and hermetic paths towards "truth".

My concern now is...how do I take my "soul" back? How do I renounce all the promises and spiritual bondage I so ignorantly made to Yahweh? I just
feel I need to somehow materialize my intentions through spoken or written word just like I did when I gave him my soul and to begin this new journey
without any baggage and guilt...but I'm finding much subconscious opposition and spiritual attacks trying to lure me back into a path that I know in
my heart is wrong for me on every single level.

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