The Velostwr is $6,000-8,000 off on autotrader. It will be a $10,000 less expensive Type-R before long.

I read this test as the civic is a better track car, but as a day to day driver the velocster with its low end torque is going to be hard to beat. Im sure winding the civic out is great fun, but it also means 3500rpm cruising at 80mph. But the civic does so many things at such a high level and then honda puts it in that cheap suit, ughhh! Kind of reminds me of what GM did to the camaro. Cars direct has the civic R at list, 36k(no discount) and the velocster N at 29k(27k without pp). 7k is also how much more the camaro SS 1LE costs, 42k discounted. There are some big jumps of 7k here but if the civic R's looks dont bother you, the camaro should suffice and it has another level of performance entirely for that extra 7k. But 7k is a lot of change, with current discounting no one will cross shop the velocster N with the civic type R. Looks like the velocster gives you 70 hp and 70 tq over the civic si for 3 grand. So the velocster N is actually a lot closer to the Si in purchase price, that is a pretty sweet spot for a first effort.

I read this test as the civic is a better track car, but as a day to day driver the velocster with its low end torque is going to be hard to beat. Im sure winding the civic out is great fun, but it also means 3500rpm cruising at 80mph. But the civic does so many things at such a high level and then honda puts it in that cheap suit, ughhh! Kind of reminds me of what GM did to the camaro. Cars direct has the civic R at list, 36k(no discount) and the velocster N at 29k(27k without pp). 7k is also how much more the camaro SS 1LE costs, 42k discounted. There are some big jumps of 7k here but if the civic R's looks dont bother you, the camaro should suffice and it has another level of performance entirely for that extra 7k. But 7k is a lot of change, with current discounting no one will cross shop the velocster N with the civic type R. Looks like the velocster gives you 70 hp and 70 tq over the civic si for 3 grand. So the velocster N is actually a lot closer to the Si in purchase price, that is a pretty sweet spot for a first effort.

I'm not sure where you got the idea the Veloster has more low end torque. It has a thicker low end torque curve compared to that of the CTR, but less torque overall. At low speeds, it never has more torque, and never out accelerates the CTR.

How come when all these wings and vents are on a supercar no one seems to complain. Yet when on a Honda Civic like this, that actually has amazing performance, they get a lot of crap for the styling.

It's not a 1969 Chevelle, it's a Honda Civic.......so honestly, I think Honda did a great job with the styling considering it's audience. If you want a plain looking and boring car, go buy one. If you want something that challenges the status quo, this is it and it's not just show......the car actually backs up it's looks. It would be much different if all these things were added to a weak car, like you see on the street all the time, but that isn't the case!

How come when all these wings and vents are on a supercar no one seems to complain. Yet when on a Honda Civic like this, that actually has amazing performance, they get a lot of crap for the styling. It's not a 1969 Chevelle, it's a Honda Civic.......so honestly, I think Honda did a great job with the styling considering it's audience. If you want a plain looking and boring car, go buy one. If you want something that challenges the status quo, this is it and it's not just show......the car actually backs up it's looks. It would be much different if all these things were added to a weak car, like you see on the street all the time, but that isn't the case!

There are plenty of non-boring sporty cars which aren't fugly. I don't have a major complaint of the functional wing on the CTR. It's the fake vents and the highly over designed creases, weird lines, and general overstyling which makes this car look ridiculous.

Because most of them on the Civic are non functional, and a super car needs all of the wings and vents. Also, wings and vents can be done very tastefully at this performance level.

Actually most of the Type R specific ones are functional. The big black fake grilles that are on the bumpers are fake of course, which are inherited from the base hatchback. But the wing, splitter, air curtains, skirts, and vortex generators are functional. The hood scoop does cooling. The fender vents exhaust hot air from the engine compartment. The car was targeted to break lap records. The lap times, which is the ultimate goal of the aero, shows it is not fake.

I love hot hatches and have had a number of them over the years. I love that these 2 manufacturers care enough to invest in their development but - how should I put this? Did the ugly stick go rogue during the styling phase, did a disgruntled pine bough release its wrath during in the design studio, and management as powerless to stop it? Hatches can be the best looking from a sporty aggressive look standpoint. Take the ne Mazda3 for example from LA auto show couple days ago. Heck even pure sports cars like the 300zx are hatches if only 2 seater+bench. It really is just a missed opportunity to appeal to a new generation of young drivers - or such as my case - merely perpetually juvenile thought processes and behavior.

Not to whine, but Hyundai not including heated front seats saves ounces that make zero difference in performance and pennies that would make an immaterial difference in price.

The Type N should make a great year-round commuter and weekend corner carver and for those of us that live where it gets cold for multiple months at a time, heated seats are a welcome luxury.

Power seats are something I don't care about at all. I am the only driver of my car, so seat adjustments are set and forget, but I love my heated driver's seat and not being able to get one in my regular driver might actually impact my buying choice.

While no fan of the Civic's design, because of what it is I think I could live with the Type-R but I'd have to think about it real hard in part due to the rear wing. It doesn't look too terrible in that gray color but getting it in black helps to tone down the look. Overall I still prefer, and actually like, the look of the Veloster. It is a great performance value and you see far fewer of them vs the Civic. I feel that I'd be quite satisfied with either one if I were to spend that amount of money on something like this as a daily driver. For me it would likely come down to comfort.

I've always wanted a 'hot hatch' and would love the Type R but the looks of the interior just doesn't do it for me (not to mention the exterior but hey, if I'm driving it, I'm not looking at it) . Do they offer toned down options?

I've always wanted a 'hot hatch' and would love the Type R but the looks of the interior just doesn't do it for me (not to mention the exterior but hey, if I'm driving it, I'm not looking at it) . Do they offer toned down options?

yep this becomes an issue at 36k, it cant look like the uglier brother of the wrxSTi.

To even be able to put a Hyundai hot hatch in the same conversation as a Honda hot hatch isnt something you couldve done just a short time ago. The Veloster may be a little rough around the edges, but it's also a good deal cheaper. Good luck even finding a Civic Type R at a dealer nearby. And I'm quite sure Honda dealers are playing hardball with pricing when they do become available. Both C&D and Motor Trend said things such as "the Koreans are coming" and "watch these guys" years ago. They were right. The Veloster reminds me most of a VW Scirocco from years ago with its appearance. And that's no bad thing. It's also likely to be more reliable.

Now let's have a $30K shootout. Civic Si, Veloster N, FoST , FiST, Camaro, Mustang, Challenger, WRX, GTI, Miata, BRZ, 86 and Mini Cooper S. FWD, RWD, AWD; it doesn't matter. The only requirement is they all have to be manual. Make it happen C/D.

Actually, the average price was $36,720, (9 months ago)...it is higher now, which is more than either of these two cars.

If you can find a previous Car & Driver comparison of sports/enthusiast cars done with a price limit based on the 'average price of cars in the U.S.', I'll send you a fruit basket.

That is not why he proposed that limit. If you look at his other posts, he said that this comparison should not have been done because the CTR costs $6K more - despite the fact that C&D compared the CTR to cars costing $6K more, (but unlike the Veloster, it won.)

FWD hot rods are indeed boy-racer. It's not the time & place to offer these kinds of cars. 15 years ago? Yes. Now? High performance EV is the direction that wise car makers strive for. Both the Civic type r and this hyuNdai will be discontinued after one cycle. Bad business move.

I'm sure we'll continue to see gasoline powered hot hatches for the next 20 years. An ev can never provide the aural delight of a gasoline powered car. There are still many ppl out there who'd rather have a hellcat over a Tesla.

I just bought a type R. It was between the Golf R, STI, and Type R for me.

Reason I went with Type R came down to price per performance. Somehow, even just being FWD, Honda managed to break the laws of physics and created a FWD that almost feels completely like an AWD.

At $35k MSRP, the Type R comes with all the bells and whistles (GPS, premium audio, etc). To get the same on the STI or Golf R, you're spending close to $45k. I test drove all 3 and the Civic Type R just felt more satisfying. The wife hates how it looks as do a few people but that didn't really factor in as a priority for me.

To me, the AWD wasn't worth the extra $10k if it didn't mean much in the way of performance or handling. That and I've always owned Hondas so there is some brand loyalty there.

I wouldn't consider a Korean car, but I'm sure it's a fine buy.

PS I know you can buy some RWD muscle car for about the same money. But in PA (windy roads + snow/ice), RWD is simply out of the question as a daily driver.

If you got a CTR for close to MSRP you're lucky. Here (Orlando), they're selling them for $54K. Which is crazy. I'd guess people are paying that or close to it as there are many tooling around the streets (many by CTR @$54K standards that is).

For me, I'd likely pick the N though I'm not smitten by its front end styling. Though I'm not smitten by the TRs styling overall either.

If you got a CTR for close to MSRP you're lucky. Here (Orlando), they're selling them for $54K. Which is crazy. I'd guess people are paying that or close to it as there are many tooling around the streets (many by CTR @$54K standards that is).

For me, I'd likely pick the N though I'm not smitten by its front end styling. Though I'm not smitten by the TRs styling overall either.

But I'd imagine dealers will mark up the N's price as well.

According to posters here, there are several areas of the country where the CTR is not being sold at a premium. But yes, like many high performance enthusiast cars before it, the high demand is fetching it more than list from some dealers.

I agree with you that if the Veloster N is as good of value as stated, some dealers will mark it up, too.

I just bought a type R. It was between the Golf R, STI, and Type R for me.

Reason I went with Type R came down to price per performance. Somehow, even just being FWD, Honda managed to break the laws of physics and created a FWD that almost feels completely like an AWD.

At $35k MSRP, the Type R comes with all the bells and whistles (GPS, premium audio, etc). To get the same on the STI or Golf R, you're spending close to $45k. I test drove all 3 and the Civic Type R just felt more satisfying. The wife hates how it looks as do a few people but that didn't really factor in as a priority for me.

To me, the AWD wasn't worth the extra $10k if it didn't mean much in the way of performance or handling. That and I've always owned Hondas so there is some brand loyalty there.

I wouldn't consider a Korean car, but I'm sure it's a fine buy.

PS I know you can buy some RWD muscle car for about the same money. But in PA (windy roads + snow/ice), RWD is simply out of the question as a daily driver.

In florida I get what you are saying, but in PA with cold rainy winters, the AWD would be my preference. AWD handles better in the wet and in the snow.

C&D put the Civic Type R up against cars costing $6K more, (like the Golf R, STI, etc). It not only comes close, or equals, but outperforms them. It even beat the much more expensive Audi RS-3 in the Lightning Lap...and tied the RS-5.That's the truly amazing thing about the Civic Type R....it beats cars above its cost/class.

Cars punching above their weight isn't anything new; having said that, it is pretty impressive and a notable accomplishment for Honda to be putting that much wallop into those kidney punches. Clearly the auto world (and Honda's competitors) have taken notice and aren't resting on their laurels or taking such a challenge lightly.

Yes the type R is the better car. but for the price it better be. we all know the hyundai will never sell for that price and realistically youll be able to get one for 25 or less. and ill take the hyundai and 10k any damn day of the week.

Yes, and the Civic Hatch Sport & Si can be found easily at a discount, too. But the idea that Hyundai dealers won't pad prices is ridiculous. High performance models like the Type R and this N get much higher demand, and the shorter supply often means they get marked up. rather than down. Here's proof just today in C&D.

So excited to have another hot hatch here; especially after the demise of the Focus range. I'd still go for a GTI myself, but the Veloster N would tempt me heavily. I feel like the more practical i30N would be better served here though.

The Veloster N is a truly worthwhile first effort into the highly competitive and utterly fierce hot hatch segment, no question. There has likely never been so many choices from which to select whatever may suit someone's needs, wants, or desires. Though I've never really been a Hyundai guy, they've certainly grabbed my attention with this one.

I always thought the Veloster was a good concept, so it is good to see Hyundai give it some spice.

Before reading the article I knew it had little chance to beat the CTR. However, it came closer than expected . Who knew fit and finish on a Honda almost held it back from winning considering the cost difference.