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Monday, 7 March 2011

Steffan makes me sound like a poor unskilled guy from a third world country. If I get sponsored, then I will work and it will be because I can do the work better than any aussie. If not, I will respect the fact that people here need jobs and wouldn't take it away from them.

Steffan says:

My comment was not a reflection upon you Tobie. It was in response to Bruno. I was making the point that one or 2 or even 100 people working 'honestly' or without a visa is one think but when you open the floodgate (as England did a number of years ago) it's a different story.

Castadrift says:

@Allan - for the record I don't think this is a debate of right and wrong at all! it is a debate of politics and legalities - both of which have very little association with morality.

:)

Bruno says:

Hey Steffan, I'm sorry but it seems like i'm going to have to hug you too tomorrow. anyone else wants a hug?

I am very aware of the housing, inflation, unemployment problems and the water shortage situation. But this are all dragons we can vanquish.

And in order to do so, and in order to solve most of the problems in the world the first thing we need is a can-do positive attitude, instead of an "everything's wrong let's just blame the immigrants" attitude.

We have the ideas, we have the people, we have the technology and we have the resources to do it.

Tesla invented renewable, unlimited energy, we have learned to produce geothermal energy, we have learned to purify ocean water through desalination and reverse osmosis processes, we are learning to effectively take advantage of collective farming, nanotechnology and automation which will reduce the labor force required, also the dalai lama proposed some years ago to demilitarize the world. If instead of spending billions of dollars in killing each other we could spend it in science and human development there is absolutely no limit to what we can achieve. And this are just a few examples of the things we can achieve if only we start believing we can.

This may sound too idealistic, but its not at all. We saw it yesterday at the free hugs campaign, there is just so much love in people just waiting to get out. And we see it every day through you guys opening your hearts and houses for people who need a place to sleep, without expecting anything in exchange. So why not opening your country also for people who need it?~~

btw it may sound like it, but i dont belong to any political, religious or whatever association trying to brainwash people for their own personal interests :P

The fish says:

Bruno Bruno Bruno

Look what you have made me do. I was more than happy to let this debate continue (as long as there were no personal attacks on each other but rather was about the issue). But if there is one thing I can't stand, it is wrong science.

Nicola Tesla never invented renewable unlimited energy. If he had, why would we not be using it now?

Rather he is the man who developed alternating current (AC to the DC) and wireless power exchange (which is has a long history complete with greed, double crossing and so much politics)

Ok with that aside, back to the discussion/debate about the rights and wrongs of working in a country with/without a visa.

Spyro says:

Nicola Tesla also invented a way to reproduce Wolverine, why have we not taken advantage of that. Anything you may ever want to know about Tesla, go to Cracked.com and thank me later for the addiction.

Perthamy says:

My thoughts exactly Selena.

Actually, it makes more sense that Perth CS hosts would have these opinions as we are the one's who are dealing with these issues on an everyday basis.

I get a request from a WHV maker EVERY, SINGLE, DAY looking for free accommodation because they have left their country (where there's no jobs) to look for work here, and often without appropriate savings. In the beginning of last year I was hosting for a couple of months until I realised that people were here to work - not necessarily to explore Perth or spend money doing touristy things. Now I only host tourists and am having a great time with CS again. My surfers since then are some of the best friends I've ever had, not because they are better or worse people, just that we have more in common at the moment cause we are all on the adventure/travelling page :)

This post has simply become a group of ideas and opinions expressed - that is what a forum is all about. It's not about Toby anymore and wasn't after the second response from Spyro. For my part, it's about the lack of respect for Perth and sometimes CS by vast numbers of WHV makers that are here to make money. It amazes me that I can't say that without offending people. If you are a WHV maker and you don't act this way - there's no way you would be offended cause it's not about you. Just because I wrote my opinion doesn't make me disrespectful, nasty and especially not left wing conservative!!! (That really made me lol - I'll remember that next time I'm organising an environmental protest or once again, applying for a job working with newly arrived immigrants to Perth).

I think Toby and the guy sleeping in his car are just the tip of a rumbling volcano in CS.

Most of the most dedicated Perth CS hosts I know have switched their profiles to only "coffee or a drink" this year. It's a real shame.

I'd love to give you a hug Bruno, but it doesn't mean that I'm going to believe you'd be in this country if you also weren't earning money. Totally generalising I know, but most people are here for money - they are not here because they want to add to the society, make Australia "a better place" or anything else that doesn't suit them (they like travelling here etc).

I live in the real world… and guess what, after travelling and working extensively for 8 years in 6 countries I was FORCED to come back to Perth when I turned 31 because there were no more visas I could apply for. Even though I was devastated, I accepted that. Anyone that knows anything about me knows that I have a very serious sense of justice and what's right. Just as I believe children shouldn't go hungry or women should be afforded and education - I also believe in respecting the law of each country. Hey, that's just me.

I also totally believe in the WHV program and encourage it for everyone. It totally changed my life for the better. I welcome everyone in Perth who wants to work on a visa… as long as they respect our laws. That doesn't make me a conservative, it simply means I believe in respect. Yes I complain about dumb speed limits and sky rocketing alcohol taxes and other such things, but I don't question "why?" at every law - I am humble enough to know that there are laws for reasons I don't necessarily understand. I respect that there are people in the police and court system doing their best to keep order in our society ticking along.

Selena there is no "rift in the CS community caused by petty politics". There is a difference of opinion, that's all. I'm certainly not going to throw away 3 years of active CS membership because someone thinks differently to me - that's the number one reason I participate in CS and have had a lot of my thoughts changed and shifted, as well as offered thoughts to other people from my own experience!

Surely I'm allowed to say that I don't want to be part of a debate or argument at a CS meetup aren't I? That's not what I go along for and after a long day at work, like I said, I can't think of anything worse!

So again I will decline the offer of arguing this any further at the meetup. I am there simply to have nice conversation and introduce my surfer to the Perth community.

If you want to break the law Tobie, you can talk with with the immigration police about it, not me :)

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