Nor is there any mention in the recommendations of Martin Yeates, the Trust’s chief executive, or Cynthia Bower, who was chief executive of the West Midlands Strategic Health Authority and went on to become head of the health regulator the Care Quality Commission.

In the debate there was frequent reference to the habit of recycling people like this. You know, the ones who from failure to failure trousering £200,000 each time they pass go,

Edited by JohnM, 06 February 2013 - 02:27 PM.

Life is like a sewer: What you get out of it depends on what you put into it.

In the debate there was frequent reference to the habit of recycling people like this. You know, the ones who from failure to failure trousering £200,000 each time they pass go,

A good friend of mine is a very senior IT manager at a top investment bank. He was moaning about the quality of project managers on the market, I suggested to him that he look outside of the narrow investment banking industry as, after all, an IT project manager is an IT project manager regardless of industry. He looked at me as if I had suggested he gargle acid. It's the same in many of these other industries, they never look outside of their narrow niche market as it's bluntly obvious that no-one without narrow experience can ever do the job.

Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway

Don't just focus on the management here - although, do ask questions there. This is top to bottom issues. This is nursing care that left people lying in **** - not because they were understaffed but because they chose not to care. This is doctors that didn't do their job and cost people their lives.

Yes, managers should be getting more than stern words for this but there are people on the front line who will be allowed to hide behind the failings of others and that is wrong.

(Enter somebody telling me that no frontline person in the NHS has ever done anything neglectful unless the system made them ...)

Don't just focus on the management here - although, do ask questions there. This is top to bottom issues. This is nursing care that left people lying in **** - not because they were understaffed but because they chose not to care. This is doctors that didn't do their job and cost people their lives.

Yes, managers should be getting more than stern words for this but there are people on the front line who will be allowed to hide behind the failings of others and that is wrong.

(Enter somebody telling me that no frontline person in the NHS has ever done anything neglectful unless the system made them ...)

One of the issues with the enquiries into this is the role of the health professionals including doctors, who decided not to give evidence. Of course giving evidence that might include questioning of the action, or otherwise, taken by individuals could mean that professionals implicate themselves and could suffer professional and reputational damage and even the loss of their registration to practice and their livelihood.

See also the Winterbourne View scandal and enquiry for this and the lack of involvement of psychiatrists and the absence of a forensic examination of how they fulfilled their responsibilities under the Mental Health Act for the welfare of the detained patients with a learning disability who were treated appallingly.

Don't just focus on the management here - although, do ask questions there. This is top to bottom issues. This is nursing care that left people lying in **** - not because they were understaffed but because they chose not to care. This is doctors that didn't do their job and cost people their lives.

Yes, managers should be getting more than stern words for this but there are people on the front line who will be allowed to hide behind the failings of others and that is wrong.

(Enter somebody telling me that no frontline person in the NHS has ever done anything neglectful unless the system made them ...)

Don't just focus on the management here - although, do ask questions there. This is top to bottom issues. This is nursing care that left people lying in **** - not because they were understaffed but because they chose not to care. This is doctors that didn't do their job and cost people their lives.

Yes, managers should be getting more than stern words for this but there are people on the front line who will be allowed to hide behind the failings of others and that is wrong.

(Enter somebody telling me that no frontline person in the NHS has ever done anything neglectful unless the system made them ...)

You are bang on the money jon

Front line staff are responsible for what they at the coal face.

If a doctor gives out a bad prescription (i.e. wrong dosage of a medicine) the nurse who administers it is the one responsible and held up for judgment. Many do not realise they are responsible for their actions and believe in the old doctrine of 'I was just following orders'.

Scary thing is, other hospitals had a worse death rates than the Mid Staffs....

With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

If a doctor gives out a bad prescription (i.e. wrong dosage of a medicine) the nurse who administers it is the one responsible and held up for judgment. Many do not realise they are responsible for their actions and believe in the old doctrine of 'I was just following orders'.

Of course if the doctor has been working a 14-hour shift then mistakes will happen. Blame the system that forces doctors to work very long hours not the doctor.

Or that the doctor has only been allocated thirty second per patient and doesn't have time to ask all the questions that they would like to.

Don't just focus on the management here - although, do ask questions there. This is top to bottom issues. This is nursing care that left people lying in **** - not because they were understaffed but because they chose not to care. This is doctors that didn't do their job and cost people their lives.

Yes, managers should be getting more than stern words for this but there are people on the front line who will be allowed to hide behind the failings of others and that is wrong.

(Enter somebody telling me that no frontline person in the NHS has ever done anything neglectful unless the system made them ...)

That would unrealistic. Clearly that does sometimes happen. But not nearly as often as system failures whereby very many people were supposed to do an aspect of their job but weren't able to for one reason or another (usually time pressure). Usually at least one person in the chain will realise that something has gone wrong and flag it up but if all ten (or so) miss it then somebody can die.