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Topic Review (Newest First)

02-23-2004 09:17 AM

removed_by_request

OC,

Valid points, but they do nothing to stop the demand for them.

Until the demand ceases we will continue to exploit nature in the only way we know how.

People with $$$ want prawns, salmon, and out of season strawberries(always thought Ca. and Fla. supplied a bunch).

Religious zealots are another story. That has to deal with exploitation of man and not salmon.

02-20-2004 01:07 PM

OC

MJYP,

The question you asked is one we have all gone over and over again.

The world is full of hunger, millions of men, women and mostly children die of longterm starvation on a yearly basis. Unfortunately none of those who starve could ever afford even 99 cent a pound farm raised salmon or $6.99 a pound farm raised shrimp. Our farm raised aquaculture products are targgets for the middle class world wide as is the ever growing industrial agriculture. I think we all thought that this would help solve the worlds hunger problems but ther are many hunger experts out there telling another side of the story. I will try and get the authors of some pretty astounding books who can better explain what Aquaculture and industrial farming are doing to the world and the majority of its people and post the info latter.

Some of the points these experts bring up are very sound. Such things as the first world demand for out of season products and what the real cost is in consumption of scarce resourses. One example that I love is that one strawberry from Chile brought up to New York in January uses 495 calories of fossil fuel to grow in an industrial mannor and ship. That same strawberry provides only 5 calories for human consumption. Grown with sound small farming disaplines in season in New York and sold in a local market the amount of calories required to grow and ship are few. I am sure that farm raised salmon are the same way as the strawberry maybe even more so when you think of all the waste in salmon farming. A few other things that are talked about more and more is on a world wide basis that poverty is becoming an ever growing problem as local farming and markets are being displaced by the multi national industrial farm and the loss of the local market because there are no produce to sell in them. Shrimp Aqua culture has been devasting to many thrid world communtities in SE Asia and S. America. As these multi national companies come in pay off the pols take over the costal mangrove swamps, bulldoze them to make holding ponds that have only a one to one and a half year life before they must bulldoze more swamp because the ponds go bad after that short time period. Loss of swamp means loss of habitat for young fish which means the locals loose their way of life of subsistance fishing and what extra they have selling in local markets. Many coastal villages have been abandond and many locals have lost their lives to violance for trying to stop this insanity.

I'm not going to blame us the average guy in the first world yet for what is going on because I don't think enough information is getting out. Someone from the Mid West thinks it's great they can eat salmon year round as the average guy in the NW can get those very same strawberries mentioned above right now in Larry's Market. But sooner or later we are going to have to change our unthoughtful ways we look at food and get back to seasonal foods grown locally. We look at what is happening in the world differently since 911. We are just looking at one part of what we think is the problem, that being extreme religious zelots but we better take a better look and it's got to do with 3 basics, fuel, food and water. Those three items are what the first world considers theirs and at their convenience. The have nots are becoming real pissed world wide at an ever quicker pace than past decades. If you don't think the religious zelots are not picking up on this and using religion as it has always been used you better all take some time and look a little deeper. All religions have used underlying problems as a catylist and now they are seeing what our mulinational companies are doing the take over of fuel, food and water world wide. Ask the first peoples of BC, ask the locals of South America, SE Asia what they think of what we think as a convienence such as aquaculture.

02-20-2004 07:25 AM

Gardener

VERY good question, MJYP, and one that has taxed my brain considerably. As you say, there is a consumer demand, and it will need to be filled somehow.

I found myself in the odd position of defending salmon nets in the recent debate on the 'Atlantic Salmon' board - although nothing would please me more than to see them all gone! In my view, a moderate harvest from identified, prolific runs of fish is the 'least worst' option, at least until a better way of salmon farming can be found. There are undoubtedly rivers that can sustain some netting effort without threatening the survival of the species, although it obviously isn't good for rod fishermen.

The problem in the UK is that salmon have moved in the last 10-15 years from a luxury product to one of the cheapest forms of animal protein you can buy. As a result, the demand is dramatically higher than before, and only a really dramatic health scares, like the recent one, will put that genie back in its bottle. But trying to educate the consumer - to reduce or cut off the market for farmed salmon - is one way to help, and is an integral part of Bruce Sandison's Salmon Farm Monitor campaign over here.

Incidentally, I've just seen a post by Bruce on a UK board, noting that a planning application has just been lodged here for a land-based farm. The only figures I've seen (which were here some time ago) indicated that this would likely make the product so expensive that it would not be able to compete in the market. But if it can be made to work, even if the consumer has to pay a bit more, I think this is probably the best solution. The ecological problems associated with marine aquaculture (notably effluent, lice/diseases and escapes) can all be more or less controlled in an inland farm.

02-20-2004 05:54 AM

removed_by_request

I just want to play devils advocate here. (I by no means support the fish farmers in any way)

There are more people on this planet than ever, they want to eat salmon. Do we fill the need by depleting wild stocks or do we farm raise them???

Interested in your answers on filling the need. We all know by now we can't trust man(government, business) to manage anything to our liking.

What is the answer????

02-13-2004 11:07 AM

fredaevans

Could you ask the paper....

Why something as important as 'rebating' a 1.5 million dollar fine is 'last page material.' Skip the who ... given BC budet problems now I'd have thought they'd need the money.

Or would the 'money' have put them out of business??

02-13-2004 10:37 AM

North Island

Moonlight,
Thanks for bringing this news item into the light. This is exactly what our government needs, a WATCH DOG. The parties in power are in such a strong poloitical position [both fed & prov.] they have little worry for public repercussion. Couple this with constant threats of financial cutbacks to the ministries responsible for our fish and even their own ranks fear being to outspoken .

N I

02-12-2004 04:23 PM

OC

Some politians and some judges. Those that would hold up to the fine are called commies, liberals and radical enviro pinkos.

02-08-2004 05:10 PM

flytyer

Wonderful!? Summer steelhead runs have been down the last two summers, the fish farms have been fined for doing illegal things, and then they get rewarded by the government through having the fines "rebated" (what a term for simply forgiving them for doing illegal things) so they can continue on with business as usual. When was the last time you got a "rebate" for something as simple as a speeding ticket for going 6 miles/hour over the posted limit on the freeway? Don't you just love the way politicians and judges think when an industry gives them some cash for an election.

02-08-2004 11:13 AM

Moonlight

Salmon Farming in BC news flash....

Very small article buried in the last pages of the local newspaper this morning telling of how the BC Goverment refunded and excused $1.75 MILLION in fines for illegal operations!
I was pretty sure that the Farm Industry had the politicians attention I guess this is just further proof.
To the Policians who granted this this is the middle finger of my right hand!!!