whistleridge:Is it bad that my primary reaction to this (meaning both this comment and the whole fuss about Lance) is 'meh'? Because it is. And I'm not trying to be inflammatory or anything. I just. don't. care. There are so many worse problems in the world than one dude in funny pants (or one subset of dudes in funny pants) taking something to ride a bike 5 minutes faster up a hill. I just can't bring myself to care one way or the other.

No, it's not. It's bad that you came in a thread full of people who might care and want to have a discussion to take a giant shiat. But thanks anyway.

Rodeodoc:I don't give a crap what Armstrong and the rest did. The guy is still an amazing athlete and could kick my ass at anything. Too bad his gutless teammates didn't man up and shut their farking traps.

Does no one follow the code of omerta any more? We have become completely pussified.

If you're going to troll a cycling thread, it helps to get in on that action in the Boobiess. In fact, I'm shocked this thread made it to 100.

Rodeodoc:I don't give a crap what Armstrong and the rest did. The guy is still an amazing athlete and could kick my ass at anything. Too bad his gutless teammates didn't man up and shut their farking traps.

Does no one follow the code of omerta any more? We have become completely pussified.

No shiat. I mean whatever happened to lying to the grave to protect the guy you helped make 100 million bucks who wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire? People have no ethics anymore. If we don't protect the cheats we won't have any heroes anymore.

if they have irrefutable physical evidence of Armstrong having doped or a recording of him admitting to it then i willbelieve it , other wise my doubts remain as these 11 guys have reason to want to ruin Armstrong.

I care little about the actual investigation, but I sure find it fascinating that, over really the better part of the last 8-10 years, looking at the sheer volume of various teammates, business partners, "confidants", and others w/in Armstrong's circle that have come out against him in one way or another, and most importantly, aside from direct doping accusations, how every single story also paints him as a complete farking asshole as well.

I don't dislike Armstrong for the alleged doping. I dislike him because if that many people equally also consider you a total scumbag, then, you are a total f*cking scumbag.

So Lance is still claiming he is innocent. Ok, WTF, I'll play along. How much of asshole do you have to be to have 11 of your former teammates testify, under oath, to "frame" your ass? Innocent but a raging douchenozzle. That is the best possible scenario for Lance right now.

grimlock1972:if they have irrefutable physical evidence of Armstrong having doped or a recording of him admitting to it then i willbelieve it , other wise my doubts remain as these 11 guys have reason to want to ruin Armstrong.

You've got to be kidding me. If for no other reason than what killer cars said.

Hincapie for example. The dude retired for farks sake. All he had to do was take the fifth and ride it out. Thankfully there are still some people for whom the truth is its own reward. Dude wanted to be able to look in the mirror for the rest of his life. Good for him.

What the fark is it about Lance Armstrong that makes people assume he's the one guy telling the truth? I'll never understand why we think having cancer grants sainthood. Everyone realizes he makes a shiatload of money from livestrong, right?

Seriously - think about the biggest Dick you have ever known in your entire life. Now imagine you want to take him down somehow. Do you really think it would be plausible that you could find 26 people who would lie under oath to accomplish your task?

Debeo Summa Credo:ArcadianRefugee: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Actually the US Postal Service is pretty amazing. If they weren't being forced by Congress to set aside 30 years of pensions for people they haven't even hired yet, they'd be fine financially, as well.

Politics tab is to the right. Take your incorrect understanding over there.

"The Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act of 2006 (PAEA), which obligates the USPS to prefund 75 years' worth of future health care benefit payments to retirees within a ten-year time span - a requirement to which no other government organization is subject" ~wikipedia

But I am certain you will educate us all in just how misinformed we both are in our assertion that the USPS would be fiscally stable if not for this idiotic law.

Go ahead. Enlighten us.

Or just, you know, make another snarky comment and then flee without a single fact to back you up.

Snort:Alright! Act 2 is upon us. Act 1 saw the (anti)hero say "no mad" to the USADA bounding him. Now the USADA lays their cards on the table.

Act 3 is the long slow screw of the USADA and their tactics. Coerced evidence, hearsay, and a lack of scientific proof. (He really has not failed a test!)

Act 4, Lance is still discredited but so is the head of the USADA as their egos consume each other in a glorious public conflagration.

Sure, but no one ever roots for the police. No one roots for the principal, or the board, or the umpire or the referee or the NCAA or WADA or the IOC or the PGA our Roger Goodell. Doesn't matter. However it came out, whatever tactics were used, we still all know Lance lied and cheated. He's arguably a better liar than cyclist. Even Barry Bonds finally admitted he took steroids. Even Pete Rose finally admitted to betting on baseball. Great tour de France rider (I'll save 'cyclist' for those who had success in other races) but he's no Greg Lemond.

Wow, so the testimony of a dozen guys not as good as Armstrong, who all got caught doping is enough to convict him. Color me shocked.

The French hated him - still do - yet you think after each stage win, tour win and random test sample they would have found something. He was probably the most heavily tested athlete in the world and never failed a test. It takes analysts, hand picked by the USADA to find anomalies in his samples a half a dozen years or so after the fact.

Did he dope? It is possible. With all the doping in the sport, 8th in the tour is good enough for the podium after all the dopers are kicked out but I find it hard to believe that if the tiger woods of cycling was tested after every other race for 7 years and found nothing, it takes a bunch of disgruntled ex-riders and dopers to sway opinion the other way.

o5iiawah:Did he dope? It is possible. With all the doping in the sport, 8th in the tour is good enough for the podium after all the dopers are kicked out but I find it hard to believe that if the tiger woods of cycling was tested after every other race for 7 years and found nothing, it takes a bunch of disgruntled ex-riders and dopers to sway opinion the other way.

It's not possible, it's definite. Read the report. He doped. His whole damn team doped. As someone who rooted for Lance and didn't want to believe that he was a doper, the report isn't just a slap in the face type of wake up call. It's like getting a 1000 gallons of ice water dumped on me.

In a way, it's like the rat bastard Sandusky. They both proclaim they're innocent and victims of a witch hunt or conspiracy. And if it was just 1 or 2 people calling them guilty, they might have had a point. But when you're talking about 8 victims (in Sandusky's case) or 11 witnesses (in Armstrong's case), then the conspiracy card is just unfathomable.

Yes, some of the witnesses against Armstrong aren't the most credible people. But consider those who hadn't been caught before testifying against him and had every reason to not go against him and it becomes very clear that Armstrong was everything he said he wasn't.

Strip him of all those Tour titles and everything else he won. All 7 Tours should be declared vacant and not have a champion since it's clear that it's nearly impossible to find someone who was clean in those Tours.

teto85:So, now that USADA has taken away Lance's wins, are they going to take away those home runs of MacGwire, Sosa and Bonds?

MLB decided they would rather have baseball chucked out of the Olympics than conform to any sort of rigourous and independent drug testing program. So the USADA does not assert authority over baseball as a sport.

o5iiawah:Wow, so the testimony of a dozen guys not as good as Armstrong, who all got caught doping is enough to convict him. Color me shocked.

The French hated him - still do - yet you think after each stage win, tour win and random test sample they would have found something. He was probably the most heavily tested athlete in the world and never failed a test. It takes analysts, hand picked by the USADA to find anomalies in his samples a half a dozen years or so after the fact.

Did he dope? It is possible. With all the doping in the sport, 8th in the tour is good enough for the podium after all the dopers are kicked out but I find it hard to believe that if the tiger woods of cycling was tested after every other race for 7 years and found nothing, it takes a bunch of disgruntled ex-riders and dopers to sway opinion the other way.

He doped. Get over it. There is no way a guy with one testicle is beating guys who were just as talented as him and who trained just as hard as he was who were doping.

The take away I have is that if everyone was doping (as shown by the testimony) then this proves that doping doesn't level a playing field and all of the guys caught in baseball have 0 ground to stand on when it comes to that.

HeathenHealer:o5iiawah: He was probably the most heavily tested athlete in the world and never failed a test.

Neither did Marion Jones. She admitted she had been cheating since 1999.

Same with Tim Montgomery. Or any of the half dozen of Armstrong's teammates who testified that they all doped together while riding for USPS/Discovery, but that the doctors knew how to get them to pass tests...

whistleridge:Yeah, I'm not a Lance apologist by any stretch. More just sick of hearing this sort of thing from every angle. First it was baseball, then it was cycling...I would be utterly unsurprised if it turns out ten years from now that Michael Phelps was doping...

Oh, Phelps has been doping alright. Just not the kind that would get the USADA up in arms.

Armstrong did not respond directly to the report being released, but did go on Twitter on Wednesday night to say, "What am I doing tonight? Hanging with my family, unaffected, and thinking about this.." followed by a link to his Livestrong Foundation's web site.

Just wait a while Lance. I suspect you'll be "affected" soon enough. I mean you already are as the biggest tri's and marathons won't accept your entry. And I suspect the underwriters for the guys who put up the five million dollar TDF bonus will be in touch shortly. The question is are you capable of fessing up and trying to retain an ounce of self-respect? I suspect not.

JohnBigBootay:Armstrong did not respond directly to the report being released, but did go on Twitter on Wednesday night to say, "What am I doing tonight? Hanging with my family, unaffected, and thinking about this.." followed by a link to his Livestrong Foundation's web site.

Just wait a while Lance. I suspect you'll be "affected" soon enough. I mean you already are as the biggest tri's and marathons won't accept your entry. And I suspect the underwriters for the guys who put up the five million dollar TDF bonus will be in touch shortly. The question is are you capable of fessing up and trying to retain an ounce of self-respect? I suspect not.

I did a kids triathlon (with my kids; super sprint for parents) last month, and the irony struck me: Lance Armstrong is banned by USAT (via USADA) from competing in the "Lance Amrstrong Foundation Youth Triathlon Series."

IAmRight:People keep telling him they believe him and that they're mad at the USADA for attacking him. Plus, after you tell a lie for so long, you start believing it.

You got some big egos in pro sports I guess. What's surprising is no one seems to learn - the guys who fess up voluntarily are forgiven. Anyone angry at Pettite or Giambi these days? Nope.The guys who deny, deny, deny even after it's become obvious, continue to be reviled.

JohnBigBootay:Bronzed War God: I did a kids triathlon (with my kids; super sprint for parents) last month, and the irony struck me: Lance Armstrong is banned by USAT (via USADA) from competing in the "Lance Amrstrong Foundation Youth Triathlon Series."

I no longer understand why he insists on this comical Tony Montana style downfall. He'll be widely forgiven and praised as reformer if he'd just be honest about it.

He'shiat the Pete Rose line. Even if he admits it now, no one will care, and he will still be shunned from his sport. As long as he denies it, he has a tiny bit of wiggle room since he never actually failed a test. Once he admits it, all doubt is gone, and so are the people who support him or can look past the allegations and support his charities. If he admits anything now, those people are going to drop him and few will return.

roc6783:He'shiat the Pete Rose line. Even if he admits it now, no one will care, and he will still be shunned from his sport. As long as he denies it, he has a tiny bit of wiggle room since he never actually failed a test. Once he admits it, all doubt is gone, and so are the people who support him or can look past the allegations and support his charities. If he admits anything now, those people are going to drop him and few will return.

Yeah, that's where he's at but I disagree with the shunning. Some would. But I think virtually all of his knowledgeable supporters left are toeing the 'everyone else did it so who cares' line. Despite the irony of that stance given that Armstrong himself has tarred many of his accusers as confirmed cheaters - which would lead one to believe he thinks cheating is bad. Seriously - everyone left would support him if he released a 'here I am shooting epo' youtube video. There just cannot be many people left who doubt he used epo and steroids and skirted tests and arranged for teammates to be supplied as well. Can there? I suppose there are a few folks who actually believe OJ so I guess anything is possible.

Gonna have to agree. One would assume that substantial tax revenue is generated by selling the consumption of sporting events to a populace operating under the assumption that someone is ensuring somewhat fair competition. Besides - that excuse doesn't fly anyway given that Armstrong's greatest successes came while sponsored by US Postal.

JohnBigBootay:rka: Complaining about your tax dollars being wasted is a red herring.

Gonna have to agree. One would assume that substantial tax revenue is generated by selling the consumption of sporting events to a populace operating under the assumption that someone is ensuring somewhat fair competition. Besides - that excuse doesn't fly anyway given that Armstrong's greatest successes came while sponsored by US Postal.

It's like complaining about how you have to subsidize the Susan G. Komen Walk because they wear out the public streets.

JohnBigBootay:roc6783: ***snip*** Seriously - everyone left would support him if he released a 'here I am shooting epo' youtube video. There just cannot be many people left who doubt he used epo and steroids and skirted tests and arranged for teammates to be supplied as well. Can there? I suppose there are a few folks who actually believe OJ so I guess anything is possible.

When I said "supporters" I meant donors and employers. My fault for lack of clarity. There are enough people in the US that know "Lance Armstrong" the brand, but only know that he was "accused of cheating cuz a bunch of other people were", that the "Lance Armstrong" brand still has major value. If he were to admit that he cheated, all of it would be gone. He now has to protect his brand, he probably couldn't care less about being stripped of the titles, he and the American Public know he won. All he has to do is say, "I never failed a test." and the brand will not take a major hit. If he admitted to cheating, it would be catastrophic.

rka:It's like complaining about how you have to subsidize the Susan G. Komen Walk because they wear out the public streets.

One cannot accept tens of millions of dollars in sponsorship from a government entity and then turn around and cry government waste when they attempt some form of oversight of their investment. That's brazen even for Armstrong.

roc6783:When I said "supporters" I meant donors and employers. My fault for lack of clarity. There are enough people in the US that know "Lance Armstrong" the brand, but only know that he was "accused of cheating cuz a bunch of other people were", that the "Lance Armstrong" brand still has major value. If he were to admit that he cheated, all of it would be gone. He now has to protect his brand, he probably couldn't care less about being stripped of the titles, he and the American Public know he won. All he has to do is say, "I never failed a test." and the brand will not take a major hit. If he admitted to cheating, it would be catastrophic.

I get your point. Fact is he's surrounded by so many heavy hitters who have bankrolled him I sincerely doubt the ultimate control freak is even the master of his own message anymore. It wouldn't surprise me if he's not allowed to fess up because of the financial liability that could ensue.

I get your point. Fact is he's surrounded by so many heavy hitters who have bankrolled him I sincerely doubt the ultimate control freak is even the master of his own message anymore. It wouldn't surprise me if he's not allowed to fess up because of the financial liability that could ensue.

Plus, he really has nothing to gain. All of the apologists in baseball are either looking at HoF considerations or post-baseball careers. Lance is at the top of that heap now, he doesn't need to make good and hope the forgiveness rolls in before he tries to leverage his name.