hi all, judging by the only picture that I provided above (3 posts above this one), can anyone confirm what size frame my bike is?according to the 88/89 catalog DavidI scanned, the olympic 12 only came with three sizes: 21", 23", and 25".is my bike 21"?thanks all.cheers.

munga wrote:yes it is. measure from the centre bolt of your crank to the top of the seat tube (not the seat post). should be about 21"

thanks munga.i'm very happy with my bike having no knowledge of it when i acquired it. =Di'm right now in the process of upgrading few components.what do you think of retrofitting carbon fork?do you know when the olympic 14 was released? was it in 1990?cheers.

I think you have a 1987/88. Your colour appears to be Fuschia & White, plus you do not have REPCO on the seat tube. The 1988/89 Eurosport Tri-A Smokey Fuschia is per my post BNA RETRO Re: eBay prices on the rise, good time to sell old junk? Rob74 » Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:58 pm ..pics of the 1988/89 Eurosport Tri-A Smokey Fuschia....note the REPCO on the Seat Tube and on the Forks for the 1988/89.

Sunho I think Rob's on the coin about your Eurosport, Repco down the seat post and on the fork for the later 88 into 89 colourways of the Euro,Victory and Oly 12 (Superlite and Monaco too if I can remember correctly). Nice looking bike too! you've done a top job on it

Ok, time to give the pics a go, lets try and fill in this timeline a bit more!! back soon

The first one is the 1988/89 version running the earlier Exage 'sport' group. Picked up this bike off the bay for a parts bike to use the Arayas on the 1990 model, after a bit of a test ride I couldn't bring myself to strip it (sound familiar anyone?) so I've decided to put it aside for a future project as it needs a good service, a new seat and bearings repacked.

Looks like 1988 may have been the first year that Repco used the 'WINPISTA' BUILTIN drop bars (extra droop/straight just below the brakes) These bars seemed to have disappeared during the 90 model run.

This one is my fave, late 89/1990 Tri-A with Suntour Edge /Dia Compe (Edge re-badge) Group.

It's a work in progress and was in a terrible mess when I found her (yes, it was hard rubbish )

Shes had a hard life, lots of scars and scrapes... dia compe levers must have been troweled as its got exage motion replacements, wheels are campagnolo strada clinchers laced to the original Edge hubs. Rear freewheel is a 12-18 7 speed and it's the same as my daughters bike (identical model and year - but totally original with nothing changed! - will photograph them together whenever I can get it back over here )

I'm lovin the Edge group, changes silky smooth and this bike is a real nice bike to ride (except hills!!), must be when suntour finally got their indexing sorted out properly.

First unicrown fork, no tange sticker, miami vice decals and back to standard drop bars (daughter's one is the same)

Suntour codes are sept/oct 89

So far I've changed the cables, new bar tape (not perfect as I'm hoping to find some Edge levers and I'll redo it) repacked the bb, headset swap, hub re-grease, 105 pedals/ clips and a bit of spit and polish.... lots more to do...

oh, and it needs a new seat too

Andrew

Last edited by repcollector on Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

olympic12 wrote:do you know when the olympic 14 was released? was it in 1990?cheers.

The 1990/91 model was still an Olympic 12, it's practically identical (even the running gear) except for the colours. That's as late as my catalogues go but you're probably pretty close in terms of when the Olympic 14 was introduced.The 90/91 catalogue will be scanned as soon as I have the opportunity, it's a large format beastie though!

thank you DavidI.I think because of your catalogs, I now know everything about my bike including model year, frame size, colour, the unique unicrown fork (some people hate it some like it - i tend to like it though), what standard groupsets it originally came with etc.thanks a lot.how much did the 90/91 olympic 12 weigh according to the catalog? still the same 10.7kg?cheers =)

DavidI wrote:

olympic12 wrote:do you know when the olympic 14 was released? was it in 1990?cheers.

The 1990/91 model was still an Olympic 12, it's practically identical (even the running gear) except for the colours. That's as late as my catalogues go but you're probably pretty close in terms of when the Olympic 14 was introduced.The 90/91 catalogue will be scanned as soon as I have the opportunity, it's a large format beastie though!

olympic12 wrote:how much did the 90/91 olympic 12 weigh according to the catalog? still the same 10.7kg?cheers =)

The later model lists the same specs, even down to the rims and tyres being the same, and yes, weight is listed as 10.7kg as well. The only differences I can discern are 1. the colours and graphics and 2. although not listed in the specs, the saddle on the later bike is branded "Vetta" - you should be able to confirm, but I believe the earlier models had unbranded saddles (my 86/87 Olympic 12 certainly had no markings on it).

The Victory <1988 was 12 speed with a tange sticker + Exage, the next one (but was it actually 'the next one' ?) was an 89/90 4130 tubing Victory but with 14 speed Edge. At the same time the Euro was plodding along happily with paint and graphic changes whilst maintaining 105. Crowz's Euro 105 matches my Victory Edge in the graphics department, so I'm guessing that being a higher model it must be a 14 speed 105?... in 1989/90.

My question (not really having much metallurgy knowledge at all ) to the more knowledgeable folk is, is there a big difference between infinity / tange vs 4130 CroMo in production costs when marketing a bike at a given price point? If yes, then this may explain why the Victory models chopped and changed groupsets all over the shop, through the years, as opposed to the steady progression of same series gruppos fitted on models around it. This is what I meant by "whatever they decide to put on it this year" in my g'day post

repcollector wrote:My question (not really having much metallurgy knowledge at all ) to the more knowledgeable folk is, is there a big difference between infinity / tange vs 4130 CroMo in production costs when marketing a bike at a given price point? If yes, then this may explain why the Victory models chopped and changed groupsets all over the shop, through the years, as opposed to the steady progression of same series gruppos fitted on models around it. This is what I meant by "whatever they decide to put on it this year" in my g'day post

Tange is a brand name which uses 41xx steel and the different flavours differentiate how it has been treated/drawn: Seamed or seamless, single/double/triple butted or plain gauge, tapered butted, etc. These give the steel different properties regarding it's weight and strength.

Name brand and fancier frame materials which are harder to manufacture and/or have more desirable properties will command a higher price, therefore frame cost would be matched with a certain level of componentry in order to price the bike within the range.

It would not surprised me if the Tange frames where made in Japan from locally made tubing and the 4130 in Taiwan from locally made tubing.

My understanding that in the early eighties Repco started moving production of their lower end mass produced bikes, like the Traveller to Taiwan from Japan. Over the next few years all production shifted to Taiwan ( and Giant ?) so by 1989/90 every bike except the vertex was made in Taiwan

cray- wrote:My basic understanding: 4130 is generic/unbranded steel/CrMo, more info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/41xx_steel. It may still be treated in the same ways as the name brand stuff.

Close enough - "4130" refers to the chemical makeup of the material, ie the other elements (in this case primarily chrome and molybdenum) that are added to the iron/carbon alloy. For example, the legendary Columbus SL tubeset is still a 4130 alloy (Reynolds 531 isn't, however - it's a manganese-molybdenum alloy, so th enumber is different). The basic characteristics of the material (in particular modulus of elasticity) are the same whether it's made by Columbus, Tange, Ishawata or whoever.The material can, however, by modified by heat treatment and cold working to alter certain characteristics (primarily the yield strength, ie the point at which it will permanently deform) which, as far as bike tubing is concerned, effectively means you can make the material thinner for the same strength as a thicker material - which is how they get lightweight tubesets.The different tubes, be they Tange #1, #3, Prestige, etc, are all a 4130 alloy, but they're heat treated differently to give the desired strength/weight ratio.Hope that helps

cray- wrote:Yep, I just meant that if a bike frame is only labelled 4130 it's like calling it a generic/no-name/homebrand CrMo, as opposed to a name brand like Tange/Reynolds/Columbus/etc.

Safe to assume that it's quality and cost would be lesser than a name brand CrMo, no? Possibly Taiwanese made as Nickobec mentioned. It's perceived value and desirability is certainly so.

Cost, definitely, quality, perhaps. Bicycle frame tubes are inherently understressed anyway so it makes little difference, which is why you'll almost never see a standard bicycle frame break due to a material failure (crash damage or manufacturing defect, well, that's another story!).Perceived value, well, that's another post entirely!Back in the 80's the perception of Taiwanese manufacturing was only a little better than the current perception of Chinese manufacturing; it was starting to turn but it was still behind the reaity, which was that by that stage the likes of Giant were already producing thousands of bikes to a very high standard - I recall a magazine article from around 1990 in which the writer had visited Giant's plant and commented about the fully automated robotic frame welding machines which were producing flawless welds, hour after hour, at a rate no human could keep up with. Certainly if you look at any of the Giant-built Repcos from that era there is no lack of quality. Perception, on the other hand....... the "Made in Taiwan" stickers were usually very discrete and were known to "accidently" fall off when the bike was first taken out of the carton at the shop......

The first one is the 1988/89 version running the earlier Exage 'sport' group. Picked up this bike off the bay for a parts bike to use the Arayas on the 1990 model, after a bit of a test ride I couldn't bring myself to strip it (sound familiar anyone?) so I've decided to put it aside for a future project as it needs a good service, a new seat and bearings repacked.

Looks like 1988 may have been the first year that Repco used the 'WINPISTA' BUILTIN drop bars (extra droop/straight just below the brakes) These bars seemed to have disappeared during the 90 model run.

This one is my fave, late 89/1990 Tri-A with Suntour Edge /Dia Compe (Edge re-badge) Group.

It's a work in progress and was in a terrible mess when I found her (yes, it was hard rubbish )

Shes had a hard life, lots of scars and scrapes... dia compe levers must have been troweled as its got exage motion replacements, wheels are campagnolo strada clinchers laced to the original Edge hubs. Rear freewheel is a 12-18 7 speed and it's the same as my daughters bike (identical model and year - but totally original with nothing changed! - will photograph them together whenever I can get it back over here )

I'm lovin the Edge group, changes silky smooth and this bike is a real nice bike to ride (except hills!!), must be when suntour finally got their indexing sorted out properly.

First unicrown fork, no tange sticker, miami vice decals and back to standard drop bars (daughter's one is the same)

Suntour codes are sept/oct 89

So far I've changed the cables, new bar tape (not perfect as I'm hoping to find some Edge levers and I'll redo it) repacked the bb, headset swap, hub re-grease, 105 pedals/ clips and a bit of spit and polish.... lots more to do...

oh, and it needs a new seat too

Andrew

That is the first red/white and blue Victory I have seen apart from mine. Both bikes look to be in very nice condition.

Name brand and fancier frame materials which are harder to manufactureand/or have more desirable properties will command a higher price, thereforeframe cost would be matched with a certain level of componentry in order toprice the bike within the range.

This pretty much hits the nail on the head cray. Those two bikes are sodifferent in just one year... 88 'Tange' Victory with exage (all plastic pedalson a tri-a, really??) vs 89 '4130' Victory but with Suntour = possibly a similarprice point for both.

nickobec wrote:It would not surprised me if the Tange frames where made inJapan from locally made tubing and the 4130 in Taiwan from locally made tubing.

My understanding that in the early eighties Repco started moving production oftheir lower end mass produced bikes, like the Traveller to Taiwan from Japan.Over the next few years all production shifted to Taiwan ( and Giant ?) so by1989/90 every bike except the vertex was made in Taiwan

+1 , looks like the Victory may have lasted until 88 in Japan. Maybe theunicrown fork was another turning point with the Taiwanese made frames.

DavidI wrote:

cray- wrote:Yep, I just meant that if a bike frame is onlylabelled 4130 it's like calling it a generic/no-name/homebrand CrMo, as opposedto a name brand like Tange/Reynolds/Columbus/etc.

Safe to assume that it's quality and cost would be lesser than a name brandCrMo, no? Possibly Taiwanese made as Nickobec mentioned. It's perceived valueand desirability is certainly so.

Cost, definitely, quality, perhaps. Bicycle frame tubes are inherentlyunderstressed anyway so it makes little difference, which is why you'll almostnever see a standard bicycle frame break due to a material failure (crash damageor manufacturing defect, well, that's another story!).Perceived value, well, that's another post entirely!Back in the 80's the perception of Taiwanese manufacturing was only a littlebetter than the current perception of Chinese manufacturing; it was starting toturn but it was still behind the reaity, which was that by that stage the likesof Giant were already producing thousands of bikes to a very high standard - Irecall a magazine article from around 1990 in which the writer had visitedGiant's plant and commented about the fully automated robotic frame weldingmachines which were producing flawless welds, hour after hour, at a rate nohuman could keep up with. Certainly if you look at any of the Giant-built Repcosfrom that era there is no lack of quality. Perception, on the other hand.......the "Made in Taiwan" stickers were usually very discrete and were known to"accidently" fall off when the bike was first taken out of the carton at theshop......

Interesting points davidl, particularly the full scale automation by the 90's -thanks for the heads up! Maybe more than just the "Made in Taiwan" stickersaccidentally fell off in the shops too, the other Tri-A (daughters) is deleteall "4130" labeling altogether

olympic12 wrote:nice ones Andrew.whats the plan for it?i prefer the black/white colour combo and yes definitely, both need a new seat.cheers.

Thanks Olympic 12, the plan for the 90 is to just clean it up a little more and ride it. Up close she has alot of scratches and scars; multiple layers of cosmetic surgery courtesy of Boral. But the purist in me says leave it alone! The 88 is just going in the shed for now, It does need a good grease and service. If I could bring myself to pinch the dual pivot brakes off the Apollo then that would really help the tri-a stop alot better... but I can't bring myself to touch the Apollo or the 88 tri-a, they are both original . I may even offer the 88 on here to another member for what it cost me eventually, probably better for it to see the tlc it needs and be enjoyed. Just not sure atm...

btw, you did well with the red Oly 12, looks very nice. Oh, and I'm with you on the unicrown, personally I like the smooth narrow lines it adds to the front of the bikes.

Hmmm....looks like welded aluminium with Uncrown fork....I'd suggest avoid like the plague. If it is Aluminium there is no fatigue free zone so cracks/tears at the welds are only km's away, if its T6 Aluminium you cannot repair it because you cannot heat treat the frame following welding repairs...Steel is real and repairable... keep/stick with the Nishki Cray..

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