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I'm just being a big nerd again

I don't get what the significance is. Darla was also invited and it has no significance beyond the episode where she was invited. Whatever happens Seasons down the line doesn't mean much, as you can't use future story lines (which they made up anyway especially in regards to Spike) to defend the past and attribute significance to it. When it happened it was all about pragmatism, with no thought of the future.

Would you consider Angel being invited into her house an important plot point because of what happened in Passion? That's what I'm saying. Spike being invited in is an important plot point because of implications in Lovers Walk, Into the Woods, Crush, and probably a couple more I'm forgetting.

Pepper spray is just so passé

I've never looked into the reasons why – so I don't really know exactly whose idea it was – but I've always assumed it happened because they were running out of ways to keep Spike relevant to the plot/rest of the show.

A Bidet of Evil

Bringing this back (my first post in years turns out pretty inconsequent but gotta start with something):

I seem to recall a Joss interview in which he stated that SMG brought the idea up before S4 started, to which he supposedly replied "no more vampires !" . Apparently both SMG and JM, separately, suggest the idea or at least planted the seeds for it and he eventually took it and ran with it.

Angel-holic

I seem to recall a Joss interview in which he stated that SMG brought the idea up before S4 started, to which he supposedly replied "no more vampires !" . Apparently both SMG and JM, separately, suggest the idea or at least planted the seeds for it and he eventually took it and ran with it.

Ok see this I find very hard to believe. SMG has never seemed to be a strong proponent of the Spuffy story, in general so this is one of those things where unless I see some hard evidence I find it really hard to believe she would push this dynamic. Especially when the rumors are that in s4 (AtS s1) she still bargaining with Joss on trying to salvage some of the Buffy/Angel relationship (which makes sense when you take into account her crying on set of IWRY and DB breaking character to comfort her). I'm not saying that SMG didn't go with the flow on Spuffy but this is the same actress who took issue with Buffy sleeping with Parker so soon after the Angel break-up.

I'd believe it more if the rumor was that she floated the idea of Spike's crush in s5 but before s4 sounds unlikely to me.

Scooby

Ok see this I find very hard to believe. SMG has never seemed to be a strong proponent of the Spuffy story, in general so this is one of those things where unless I see some hard evidence I find it really hard to believe she would push this dynamic. Especially when the rumors are that in s4 (AtS s1) she still bargaining with Joss on trying to salvage some of the Buffy/Angel relationship (which makes sense when you take into account her crying on set of IWRY and DB breaking character to comfort her). I'm not saying that SMG didn't go with the flow on Spuffy but this is the same actress who took issue with Buffy sleeping with Parker so soon after the Angel break-up.

I'd believe it more if the rumor was that she floated the idea of Spike's crush in s5 but before s4 sounds unlikely to me.

No, I've heard she suggested it at some point in S4 too. Maybe she meant it like James did - something lighthearted and funny (since Spike's role at that point was mainly snark and comic relief)? Or maybe it was literally just a passing comment on one occassion, like: 'Hey maybe Buffy should date Spike?' to which Joss would have said 'no more vampires', but then when that's brought up in a commentary or interview it would have sounded like she had been more insistent about it. Anyway, I think SMG's issue with Spuffy mainly came in S6 when she really did not like the direction they took it.

A Bidet of Evil

Ok see this I find very hard to believe. SMG has never seemed to be a strong proponent of the Spuffy story, in general so this is one of those things where unless I see some hard evidence I find it really hard to believe she would push this dynamic. Especially when the rumors are that in s4 (AtS s1) she still bargaining with Joss on trying to salvage some of the Buffy/Angel relationship (which makes sense when you take into account her crying on set of IWRY and DB breaking character to comfort her). I'm not saying that SMG didn't go with the flow on Spuffy but this is the same actress who took issue with Buffy sleeping with Parker so soon after the Angel break-up.

I'd believe it more if the rumor was that she floated the idea of Spike's crush in s5 but before s4 sounds unlikely to me.

I might have gotten the timeline wrong; perhaps it was during S4 or before S5, or perhaps Joss was talking shit
Either way it doesn't really matter, though it is an interesting topic ; Evidently enough people either started or jumped on the bandwagon to make the pairing work as well as it did, SMG and JM included, given their masterful performance !

Scooby

I think JM preferred acting romantic scenes with JL than SMG. He's said in interviews that whereas he and JL had similar acting styles and would push each other, SMG was very "You have to do it this way" etc.

Mrs GordoHe said something about SMG being annoyed with his method acting. Maybe JL was method.

Scooby

I have heard ( don't ask me the source I don't remember but it was surely in one of the many youtube video I have seen on James in a conventions of fans) that James was uncomfortable with Spuffy because he used to consider Sarah like his little sister ! and so it was a bit strange and incestuous for him to do all the sex scene. To be clear before someone tell me something, I don't think or say that Spuffy is incestuous, I just tell something I think I remember have heard .

Mrs GordoYes I saw that video, something about it being like kissing his sister. But JM says everything under the moon lol. I also heard - but don't ask me where - I heard this that DB had a major crush on me... idk... it might be true. Right? ;)

thrasherpixI vaguely recall seeing that interview myself, though JM seems to tell it differently every time he tells it which makes me wonder if JM really was drinking whiskey as they show Spike drinking it ;p

Scooby

"Something Blue" was one of the most important episodes because the spell is never fully retracted. Xander becomes a demon magnet and remains that way through "First Date" in Season 7 after a long dalliance with the demon Anya and the future with Dawn, the magical being that is a humanized portal who begins to fade when magic is destroyed in the comics. Giles recovers from being literally blind but becomes figuratively blind and never really sees what is going on around him after that. And Spuffy goes from comedy to reality. This would have been a great place for an intervention with Willow and a chance to get her to use her powers properly, but everybody drops the ball here.

With Bangel being effectively blocked in the story and Riley being a large portion of boredom, there had to be another romance and why not go with Spuffy? He was sufficiently intelligent and aware of the mental state of people around him that you could make the story open-ended whereas Bangel was effectively at a stop.

Extra flamy candles!

Yes, that was what I meant. The writers went like, 'So you like this. Well, we're gonna give you this instead and it is all because you asked for it.'
[automerge]1523929530[/automerge]@Mrs Gordo No, that is exactly why it works. You give the audience what they want, but then you punish them for wanting it. It is brilliant. Of course, if you're not into guys with painted nails, it all falls flat.

I've read that it was more about testing both the romantic chemistry between SMG & JM and the audience's reaction to the pairing. Not in a "this is baaad y'all" way, and more in a "this could be a thing ?" way.

Member of the Church Of Faith

I'll go with 'Who Are You?' and the completion of 'sexual chemistry' to all-onscreen chemisrty (comedic and dramatic, which they already had together).
Then Joss suddenly realized that Spike 'had always been in love with Buffy' or something. That's when the set it up in S5 for Spike to fall in love.

I still never understand why an utter monster falls in love with a badass heroine.

Unfortunately the writers missed the fourth chemistry requirement; romantic- which they never really had in my view, at least for SMG's side even though she tried her best.

Extra flamy candles!

I've read that it was more about testing both the romantic chemistry between SMG & JM and the audience's reaction to the pairing. Not in a "this is baaad y'all" way, and more in a "this could be a thing ?" way.

A Bidet of Evil

@WillowFromBuffy I'm not sure that, by the beginning of S4, they knew they would go this precise direction. The unhealthiness of S6 Spuffy mostly stems from Buffy coming back from the dead and her subsequent depression and self-loathing, which wasn't really something they would have clearly defined at the time imo.

Extra flamy candles!

@WillowFromBuffy I'm not sure that, by the beginning of S4, they knew they would go this precise direction. The unhealthiness of S6 Spuffy mostly stems from Buffy coming back from the dead and her subsequent depression and self-loathing, which wasn't really something they would have clearly defined at the time imo.

I would say the unhealthiness of Spuffy stems from Spike's obsessive nature and lack of soul. It would have ended in the same place, even if Buffy hadn't died. Spike almost shot Buffy with a shot gun in S5.