AuthorTopic: I like George's singing but.... (Read 46445 times)

btw - tkitna's summary of george's songs was direct, smacked of unbiased honesty and . . was thoroughly entertaining to read ! loli felt the same as many things you wrote and didn't even realize it until i read your analysis

aw mannn !thanks for the music knowledge h.g. - but i'm disappointed because i thought it was a george original---furthermore, when i heard an 80's george talk about it's gonna take alot of money to do it right... i was like....DAMN ! george is pulling out all the stops ! he's dipping deep into that beatles cash to court a girl !

He made out all right with that song, nyfan, with its three music videos. I've always liked that song.

Imagine George's Something sung in a style of refrain of Oh!Darling! That would sound... How???

Could Ringo sing Twist 'n' Shout? No. But he could marvelously hit the drums!Second, could Beatles be without Ringo as a drummer? Paul plays drums on Back in the U.S.S.R., Dear Prudence, The Ballad of John and Yoko, so is his (Paul's) drummingbad on that songs - or is it worse than Ringo's drumming? It isn't - Paul could certainlyplay the drums! So why didn't they stay as a trio (without a drummer), or even a duo(Paul & John)? Probably 'cause it wouldn't function like a trio or duet. Was it George (or Paul) who said on Anthology: When Ringo came, everything melted together perfectly...John & Paul wrote WALHFMF for Ringo to suite his vocal capabilities - and that's whysong sound so good!

John & Paul weren't two bad guys who didn't give others any space.When Ringo was asked by reporters for band's plans, he often replied: Don't know. Ask the othermembers! - and George once said, after the Beatles: I really like to BE IN THE BAND - I don't doany dance steps while I perform like some others do, I just stand and play the guitar... - and concluded,ironically: I really didn't have career after the Beatles...So that statement about being a part of the bend (and not the lead singer) and I just stand and play guitarsays everything about George.

Every George's song on an Beatle album is a little treasure. Within Without Youdoesn't fit in rock albumcalled Sgt. Pepper, it's too exotic - but it's great song! It should have been a single! I won't say - oh, they should put more George's stuff on records - if you want to listen just to his songs, you can make your own compilation, from Don't Bother Me to I Me Mine... Album Yellow Submarine has two of his great masterpieces:Only A Northern Song and It's All Too Much.

And, of course, it's impossible for George to have John's or Paul's voice...

And now, tell me that you didn't notice George's screaming on It's All Too Much.You'll say: What screaming? He's singing it in a rather mellow voice. Yes, true.But he also screams. Through his guitar. That is, George could scream!His guitar could gently weep and scream loudly, if neceseary!

Conclusion:If you want to hear George singing like Paul or John, you are askinghim to do dance steps. And he doesn't do that, he just stands and playsthe guitar...

excellent post, that makes pefect sense. georges voice and compositions perfectly complemented the songwriting juggernaut that was Lennon and McCartney. george was a very accomplished and innovative guitarist and musician, obviously his singing was above par, or else he wouldn't have sang most of the beatles rockers when they played live.

nimrod

excellent post, that makes pefect sense. georges voice and compositions perfectly complemented the songwriting juggernaut that was Lennon and McCartney. george was a very accomplished and innovative guitarist and musician, obviously his singing was above par, or else he wouldn't have sang most of the beatles rockers when they played live.

No, its pretty much universally known (Within You - Without You) as the worst song on the album. All of Georges indian music sucked and he had clunkers too. Piggies,,,good lord.

Great, the first Beatles single that would have bombed.

Masterpieces? Cripes, nobody but true Beatle fans have even heard those songs before.

Screams through his guitar? Come on now. Your too invested. George was a decent player, but he isnt bringing that kind of emotion through his playing to the table.

The "problem" with George's "Indian" songs is that they don't fit our European or Western ears.John's Norwegian Woods can pass cause it has a little bit of George's sitar in it which is nice to hear -but it is hard to accept a whole song played on Indian instruments like Within You - Without You(tamboura, tabla, swordmandel) or Love You Too (tabla). Now, WY - WY certainly isn't a rocker.But, - if you accept the song as a meditation...:

Try to realize it's all within yourselfNo one else can make you changeAnd to see you're really only very smallAnd life flows on within you and without you

...then the music style in which is written works, right?

Stephen Stills was so impressed by the lyrics that he had them carved on a stone monument in his yard. John Lennon pronounced it one of George's best.

Also, notice that on the album Love George Martin made a great mashup of WY - WY and Tomorrow Never Knows (John's song from his The Tibetan Book of Dead period). The result is - George's song sounds very... rockery (since it's "driven" by drums from Tomorrow Never Knows.)

As for the worse song on Sgt. Pepper there are some other candidates.For instance, song about doing the garden & digging the weeds.

i didn't know that about piggies. i've definitely enjoyed that song when i first discovered all four sides of the white albumthe snorting sets the perfect stage for rocky racoon because it sounds like hogs on a farmi like the harpsicord ... the middle part of the song has great chords ... and george's voice gets demonicly hilarious on the words 'damn good whacking' and 'eat the bacon' - - he turns into something out of clockwork oragnge. also, i like the song because it's short and there's alot to listen to on the white album

The "problem" with George's "Indian" songs is that they don't fit our European or Western ears.John's Norwegian Woods can pass cause it has a little bit of George's sitar in it which is nice to hear -but it is hard to accept a whole song played on Indian instruments like Within You - Without You(tamboura, tabla, swordmandel) or Love You Too (tabla).

as far as this part of your post - i don't agree with you. because if you say when people dont like wyawy - it's because they aren't used to a whole song of indian instruments..... are you saying then that george's indian songs can be judged against other indian music ?because there is alot of good indian music and truthfully, george's is kind of run of the mill in comparison (in my one opinion)when you talk about the real top artists of indian classical music (ragas)i think it's more that george had natural musicality and a curiosity(open mindedness/desire to learn) that let him blend indian music instruments and styles into a pop format.it's the blend that sounds good more than the actual playing - such as u said -> tomorrow never knows sounds great with sitar drone behind it - regardless !he was 'that guy' at 'that time'..... he was into indian music and he turned us all on to it . . . (although western people have liked indian music long before the beatles [read:GEORGE] turned the exposure up to turbodrive! lol)

The "problem" with George's "Indian" songs is that they don't fit our European or Western ears.John's Norwegian Woods can pass cause it has a little bit of George's sitar in it which is nice to hear -but it is hard to accept a whole song played on Indian instruments like Within You - Without You(tamboura, tabla, swordmandel) or Love You Too (tabla). Now, WY - WY certainly isn't a rocker.But, - if you accept the song as a meditation...:

Try to realize it's all within yourselfNo one else can make you changeAnd to see you're really only very smallAnd life flows on within you and without you

...then the music style in which is written works, right?

Stephen Stills was so impressed by the lyrics that he had them carved on a stone monument in his yard. John Lennon pronounced it one of George's best.

Also, notice that on the album Love George Martin made a great mashup of WY - WY and Tomorrow Never Knows (John's song from his The Tibetan Book of Dead period). The result is - George's song sounds very... rockery (since it's "driven" by drums from Tomorrow Never Knows.)

As for the worse song on Sgt. Pepper there are some other candidates.For instance, song about doing the garden & digging the weeds.

Well, Piggies has nice tune (harpsichord) and fun lyrics. Beneath that, there isa strong social commentary, with a great twist in last verse (pigs eating bacon!):

Everywhere there's lots of piggiesLiving piggy livesYou can see them out for dinnerWith their piggy wivesClutching forks and knivesto eat their bacon

And they deliberately put the Piggies between Blackbird & Rocky Raccoon(songs about animals). Let's call that - conceptual.

well i dont have a problem with georges songs, his compositions, his singing or his guitar work, never have never will. ...but more to the point... i guess most people miss the social commentary that underlies piggies, and other george harrison songs, and the entire white album in particular.

yeah the tomorrow never knows/within you without you song on the Love album is just plain delicious.

and you're completely right, Indain music is not a good fit for western ears. i would imagine most can't fathom the underlying complexity of just a simple raga.

nimrod

The basic message of this thread was that although I like George as a singer and dont have a problem listening to him sing things like here comes the sun, there is absolutely NO WAY he could blast out Oh Darling or I Got A Feeling or Twist & Shout, I expect if he'd even tried it he would have broken down coughing and spluttering, I have played in many bands over the years and seen many singers in Georges league, they are always ok with gentler songs that dont have a great range.

I dont see why some fans have a problem with admiting that the above is the case

i guess most people miss the social commentary that underlies piggies, and other george harrison songs, and the entire white album in particular.

do you really believe 'most people' who hear the song piggies don't pick up on a double meaning?..... that they never saw a movie where police were referred to as 'the pigs' . . or heard of the book animal farm . . . . . . . . or understand that real pigs don't wear starched white shirts?

and you're completely right, Indain music is not a good fit for western ears. i would imagine most can't fathom the underlying complexity of just a simple raga.

-are you saying that someone has to understand the mathematics behind the music to appreciate or enjoy it? because i doubt the average indian person who listens to classical ragas at a wedding or something 'fathoms the underlying complexity' hell, ragas are boring like our classical. they're traditional lolat the time george was doing raga rock - the real hit music in india was pop songs of the time from indian movie musicalsonly problem - the words were in hindi. not 'underlying complexity'-anyway, my point:when jazz or big band was huge most of the fans couldn't dissect or analyze the rhythms or notes -> that's for the musicians to do. the masses just liked it-for real.......... people in india hate ragas

nimrod

music is surely there to bring enjoyment into peoples lives, they dont have to know how to dissect anything, they either like it or not, I wouldnt pretend to understand what chick corea can do on the piano but i can still enjoy it.

i may be wrong here but i think george was singing about politicians when he sang 'piggies'.the little piggies were us,the general public;the bigger piggies in their starched white shirts were the politicians 'stirring up the dirt'...arguing with each other,in their sties with all their backing (i.e money?)they don't care what goes on around (not bothered about the likes of me and you;they are loaded,why should they care?)the last verse was probably meant to be ironic (clutching forks and knives to eat the bacon)but make of the song what you will.i am sure i read somewhere it was about m.p's,and for years that's how i've thought about it.people generally don't like the song 'piggies',but it's not really a throw away ditty.....when viewed like this it has quite a good point behind it.clever.

Logged

......."but tonight,i just wanna stay in,and be with you"..............

nimrod please, it still doesn't mean anything especially that you are in possession of any realworld knowledge concerning the human singing voice, singing and rock singers. that's called a classic strawman argument, in case you were unawares. as i have stated before the human singing voice is quite a complicated mechanism... how good anyone can or cannot sing is just a question of taste, personal biases and preference.

... over the years and seen many singers in Georges league, they are always ok with gentler songs that dont have a great range.

wrong again nimrod. define georges league, this is getting waay off-track and quite silly here. the reason being your ruminations are biased and are just your interpretations... even so i have yet to see you back anything up with fact or anything beyond unreasonable conjecture.

According to Walter Everett's The Beatles As Musicians.

singing ranges for the beatles prior to 1964

Lennon: C2 > G5

McCartney: Aflat2 > A5

Harrison: B2 > D5

methinks that you are of the belief that george had a mediocre or average singing voice.. but that goes next to nowhere trying to explain why he sang so many of the beatles rockers, included live performances and on record.