Recently I came across an old thread asking if any Gay Aneros members would like to sign in. It seemed quite out of date as it was quite awhile ago. I'll be first to sign in. I find something I can relate to in a special way when I see a post by a admittedly or supposed Gay guy. Kind of like a club within the club. Don't get me wrong, I learn and enjoy a lot here from Hetero and Bi guys, and am grateful for all of you who have taught and supported me on this wonderful journey.Paul

I think that many gay men don't understand how isolated heteros are in their sexuality. Occasionally we get fragmented hints or cues from women. When we seek amplification of those hints we usually receive comment that's distorted or filtered by female experience; or, is what we would, "like to hear." So, we tend to be "islands."

Speaking for myself, I've had no genuine male-comparative opportunities save for limited locker room chat and some teen-age 'circle-jerk' sessions after football practices. (a Tuesday tradition for Sophmores where I went to High School.) ... oh yeah... a few '70s parties. :)

So, the "male frame of reference" is what I see in the mirror. Much of my 'wiring' (prior to my Aneros experience) was tailored to please a series of females rather than to please my own male being. And, while breeding, family and spirit adds a long-term element to how I think, it does little for the nourishment and satisfaction of my more immediate native drives.

When I read what a Gay man fantasizes and what he then feels mentally during an Aneros generated orgasm it carries a sense of 'male purity.' It sometimes spurs me to incorporate elements of that scene in my own practice. Sometimes that's as simple as a word change in my meditative mantra. At other times I'm inspired to seek answers from a local Martial Arts library.

Certainly, images, scents and inborn mental processes guide our orientations. But, when we look under the hood, gays and str8s seem as close cousins and perhaps as brothers.

If and when the Forum re-establishes groups, please be assured that I will visit from time to time and will always profit from the experience. Meanwhile, please continue to post here so that we can have those, "ah-ha" moments when a Gay guy explains the feelings underlying his Aneros experience.

Thank you, Rook and Human Being, for your kind words, and not the least the hugs. I luv them, especially brotherly manly ones! Your thoughts are enlightening to me, Rook. Other than on this site, I have no contact on this level of sharing with other men. I have started going to Sex Addicts Anonymous meetings, and am finding some there, but quite limited and specifically directed. Very few gay men in the groups. I really like your ID, Human Being. Just this morning I was communicating with another young Aneros user who is not sure of his orientation. I was saying that we are all different, but more alike than unlike. After all we all share human nature; we are all human beings, and more than human doings. I was also giving my take on sexual orientation. I think we are all on a continuum from hetero to homo, some closer to one end, others to the other, but most in between somewhere and at different places at different times of our lives. If homophobic people, and all of us, could be honest with ourselves we might findwe have some attraction to others of the same sex, but maybe fear it. There is a whole range from feelings of affection and attraction toward people of both sexes, to infatuation to coming to the reality ofrecognizing differences that we might not like in that person, all the way to sexual gratification. It is said that most men go right to that level, and I can't deny that. There is so much in between. We are so complicated, and very much so when it comes to sexuality. These are some of my initial thoughts on this. I welcome and look forward to further sharing.Hugs back.Paul

• There IS isolation within the male hetero segment of society - so many stigmas attached, comparisons, concern about being viewed as gay. This prevents true conversations, friendships, and genuine help and concern.• Love the "spectrum" concept, HB. Since becoming rewired, I now SEE that spectrum and find that I am NOT at just one point on it.• I consider myself straight, but since discovering the joys of MMO-hood, I have allowed myself to be opened up to possibilities I never considered before - augmenting my pleasure.• Getting the gay perspective does help define our collective experience; I hope we can effectively contribute to our gay brothers' journey too.• And, in my opinion, we are more alike than different. I am convinced based on my own growth in the last three years.

Paul, thanks for starting this thread, and thanks to Rook, Human Being and Brine for your comments of support.

I too am gay, with some hetero experience. I've never felt "different" from other guys, for the most part. Physically, we're all similar with the basics -- I've checked ... carefully! :-) -- and the differences in our sexuality are but a small part of the total influences and experiences, emotions and spiritual aspects that make each of us a unique individual.

The more we learn about each other, and from each other, the stronger the bonds of brotherhood grow -- something even more important in our sometimes fragmented lives. That's the main reason I keep returning to this forum. It's more than the education it provides in the mechanics of pleasure seeking -- it's the intimacy and caring that aren't always obvious in other aspects of our lives. Thanks, guys!

[QUOTE=Keoke;48291]The more we learn about each other, and from each other, the stronger the bonds of brotherhood grow -- something even more important in our sometimes fragmented lives. That's the main reason I keep returning to this forum. It's more than the education it provides in the mechanics of pleasure seeking -- it's the intimacy and caring that aren't always obvious in other aspects of our lives.

Well said Keoke! I am gay as well and I feel as though my association with the men here has been more about out journey together, whether we are gay/straight/bi or whatever. Our sexuality, we have learned, is so much more that what we originally thought and the fact that we can openly discuss what we are going through regardless or our "orientation" speaks volumes of the caliber of dialogue that we have here. I have met some of the most amazing people here, and even though we have not met face to face, you cannot believe the impact you have had on me with your willingness to share your experiences and listen to me. I have said it before and I will say it again, what we are experiencing here is something that is difficult to put into words sometimes, they should teach this in school.

What I feel here, is everybody's authenticity and people's knowledge that we are all here together to learn from each other.

[QUOTE=Keoke;48291]That's the main reason I keep returning to this forum. It's more than the education it provides in the mechanics of pleasure seeking -- it's the intimacy and caring that aren't always obvious in other aspects of our lives. Thanks, guys!

Friends,

I find this truer and truer each time I interact with my fellow journeyers. There are so many layers, or paths, to this experience. To enjoy the heightened nature of our relationships is one very scenic path on the way, in my opinion. It is pleasure and much more.

Thank you all for accompanying me on this journey and filling it with high quality interactions that spur on further explorations.

Thank you, all, for all that is so well said. Again, as many times, I find such an abundance of wisdom and insight from you all. What an amazing group of mature men. Where else will you find this level of sharing these days? We are so blessed. Also, so blessed for all the pleasure Aneros gives us. I hope newbies persevere with patience. It is so worth it.

I'm one of the gay members but enjoy talking to, teaching, and learning from straight and bisexual members as well. We can all help each other out. If there are gay (or bi) members who'd prefer to talk to a gay guy for Aneros support I'm here. I'm here to share my knowledge and experience with anyone.

Intimacy vs intensity has been a theme I've been struggling with for about a year now. I know this statement seems to have little to do with the topic at hand, but I'll get to that in a moment. Please indulge me for a brief story weaving.

Many know my background. I've been posting here for a few years now. I don't have as many posts as some, or say as insightful and wonderful things as others, but nonetheless I feel that at least I'm on the gray outskirst of obscure recognition. To those who do know me, recall that for the last year and a half I've been living with my sister and her husband. They graciously housed me during a time of need. The challenge that I faced in that situation pertained to Aneros specifically. They have seven kids! Trying to find peace and quite in that place was like trying to find gold in the sky. It wasn't happening. On top of that, just trying to stow away for a minute just to enjoy myself was difficult enough. So, the rare occasion when the house was empty became my session time. I know of the many subtle natures of Aneros. I've felt a broad range of sensation. From just the hint of a twing, to a full on baning and world rocking romp, I have become quite attuned to my Aneros feelings. It is in this manner, that brings me to my opening point. Intensity.

For several years, in my mind, I've been driving more and more intense scenarios. Manual masturbation in a physical sense has slipped away from me, and in its place is a mental menagerie of lustful desire, AKA, anything my perverted mind can conjure. It is in this space that I allow all my dark desires out to play. And in this freeing of the "other" me, I crave intensity. I need more. I say "other" me in that if I allowed myself, I could consume and lose myself to such desires. It is this nature of me that wanted an orgy for my 30th birthday party. I honestly thought of getting a group of willing persons together and just have an all night fuck fest. Mmm...I could loose myself to the deliciousness of desire. However, better sense prevailed and instead I went to see a symphony of Beethoven's 3rd symphony. Which brings me to my next point. Intimacy.

I went to the symphony because my girlfriend of six years thought it would be something I would enjoy. It was just her and I. No one else. I'm not a big group, social kind of person. I like things quite and reserved. She knows this. She knows this because we are very in tune to one another. We are intimate. However, I still have a problem. In my mind, I take our intimacy, and put it at risk. During our physical times together, I mention the fantasies in my head to her as we engage one another. A few times we had some threesomes. Afterwards, we both agreed that we just wanted to be with each other. Yet even today, I still think of things to bring more excitement, more intensity.

I have a big reservation as of late when it comes to the Aneros. I have recently moved out and am living on my own. Also, I have free time to myself that I can fully enjoy the Aneros. My problem is that I can fully dive into the depths of Aneros and stay under its velvet, smothering embrace for hours. It's as if I'm in a womb of pleasure causing me to be infantile and helpless to its sweeping embrace as well as simultaneously lifted to heights that literally feel as if I'm on a drug. The intensity is nearly unbearable at times. I get a little sad knowing that my love, the woman who cares for me with every ounce of her being, cannot please me in the same manner that a piece of plastic can.

This, finally, brings me to the topic at hand, and to continue the discussion created. If you're stayed with me thus far, thank you! :D

I am bi-sexual. I had surgery this year to remove a testicle that never dropped. This has always been since birth. Before the surgery, especially in the last year, I felt more and more femme. I really felt like being a woman was what was right for me. Since the surgery, I feel as if my hormones have balanced out, and I definitely feel more male. That being said, it allows me a unique approach to this topic in two ways. First, when I felt more femme, I really felt like a bottom who wanted to please a man. I felt like I needed a man to look at me as he would a woman, something gorgeous and alluring. Something mysterious and exciting. I truly wanted to use feminine charm to weave a web of seduction to ensnare the thoughts and body of a man melting in my woman's gaze. Now, when I think about being with a man, it's as a man. I feel like my muscles can truly contract and contact with another man. I feel the pride in enjoying my own body, the one given to me, the one I've created for myself. I feel the sense of male that begs to reach and connect with another male. I can understand why men couple with other men. The smell, the look, the pride. I used to feel shame at being bi. Being bi was the worst. Let me explain.

A few years ago, when I was struggling with being bi, I told a few friends of mine. Their response was that I only claimed to be bisexual because it was fashionable. I was genuinely questioning all I knew about myself, and others around me, who I confided in, thought I was just trying to be popular. There is nothing popular about being a bi guy. Gay men thinking you're just playing pretend, or whatever, especially if you're with a girl. Women think you're always going to leave them for a guy. The general public thinks you're a slut who sleeps with everyone. The struggle has been a challenge. I don't tell everyone. It's amazing what you know about a person when they encounter a gay person, and you get to hear what they say behind that person's back to you because they think you're straight like them. At times, it's a damn shame of the whole human race.

So, being bi, being in this long term and intimate relationship, being well embraced by Aneros, I think I've come to some conclusions about my initial dilemma.

The intensity side of me wants to sleep with a man. I never have. I know how attracted I am to men. I know how much I desire for men. In the few threesomes we've had, I've done a few blow jobs. I know how much I love anal. I would love for a real cock to slip into me and burst inside of me where warm pleasure can drip out.

I want to push sexual boundaries to their limits. I want to have multiple party bi-sexual orgies to stimulate my entire essence at once.

I want to fully succumb to the pleasure of Aneros while my girl has a similar stimulating device, e-stim or Sybian or something.

But, in the end, after all that's done, and I'm truly spent, all I want is to be with the person I care for most. I can experience and feel it all, but if it's hollow, if it means nothing, then it's not worth doing.

I stay with this forum for one reason. I don't really give advice to the new members like most do. I feel others can do it better than me. But when I see a genuine outreach, like this thread, I will say something. I've probably bored most, and at the very least taken a considerable chunk of free time from one's day, but I believe that it's important to make an intimate connection, right here, right now.

Gentlemen, you have mentioned that an outreach of honest to goodness male openness should be taught in schools. If other men knew what we knew, and felt how we felt, the world might be better. That may be true. However, if the love we feel for one another here were universal to all races, all genders (including intersex and trans), then that's all that would ever need be.

That's what I feel from this forum more than anything. That's what I feel from the men here more than anything. There is no judgement, no cynicism, no harsh words, thoughts, or feelings. There is support, love, and understanding. As a collective whole, we may not always agree, but we will always listen and respect one another.

Gay, straight, bi, trans, intersexed, I will always lend my support and understanding and embrace the intimate connections that are created here every day in support of ourselves as the best men and people we can be.

I don't even know if this is what's wanted from this thread or not, but it's what this thread has inspired me to write, and I hope that's good enough. :)

Thanks Rikaaim!! Good point about the intensity and intimacy!! This is not a place where to compete, rather to learn from each other.. I think men have a natural tendency to go extreme in everything.. Thanks for sharing!

RikaaimI am astounded at the response to this thread. It has evolved into something much broader and even different than what I intended. I suspect even more members would read it and share if it had a different title. I want to print yours out and reflect on it more. It is so loaded with wisdom. Thank you so much.Paul

As a gay man, I have been involved with gay websites elsewhere, and also have a few gay, straight, a bisexual friends, and I wanted to write down a few of my observations of how my interaction with them compares with this forum.

Whilst I would agree that gay men CAN be more open, can discuss things, and share experiences, this is by no means universal. I am very open with my gay friends about my aneros use and what it does for me, but have met varying responses from quiet interest, to embarrassed humour, to a straight forward sceptical "why?", as if somehow to experience and explore the depths of your own sexuality was some kind of mortal sin. A few more have been really positive about it, and have openly said they wanted to explore it themselves. I was introduced to the principle of the aneros by a gay friend, and his boyfriend. My partner also has an aneros - and I look forward to the day when we can share the experience together.

Unfortunately, I rarely find myself able to discuss my aneros experiences with my straight friends - actually there is little discusson about sex, except the comments that are made at dinner parties that result in embarrased giggles. There seems to be a conspiracy of silence over matters sexual, and whilst some women discuss their intimate details with other women, the men rarely if ever discuss things intimate, and I am not sure their is a massive amount of heterosexual male-female communication outside (or sometimes inside) a relationship on this matter. The lack of this discussion outside this forum (perhaps I know all the wrong people?) further emphasises just how important this forum is. Whilst I would therefore say that isolation is not purely a hetero phenomena, I do understand why heterosexual men do find it often leaves them isolated from their fellow men. From my perspective, I have found it incredibly liberating to interact with, and see the views on sexuality of other men who are NOT gay, as well as the ones that are. There is a fundamental truth about male sexuality here in this forum, which is rarely glimpsed elsewhere.

Whilst I would welcome the principle of a gay group, I am happy that others would be able to "dip in", and of course I would still value the comment, opinions, and sharing of experiences of all men, whatever their sexuality.

Rikaaim - I want to add my thanks for your very honest account of where you find yourself at the moment. I would say that the conflict you feel between the "need" to explore your sexuality, and the reality of loving your partner is not an uncommon feeling (in my limited experience) which seems to have its origins in the belief that sex and love are one and the same thing. After 20 years in a gay relationship, we now have an "open relationship" simply because we have discovered that love and sex don't always belong together. Although it is not an easy thing, as STING once said "if you love somebody set them free".

Whilst I would agree that gay men CAN be more open, can discuss things, and share experiences, this is by no means universal. Unfortunately, I rarely find myself able to discuss my aneros experiences with my straight friends - actually there is little discusson about sex, except the comments that are made at dinner parties that result in embarrased giggles. There seems to be a conspiracy of silence over matters sexual

This right here is the named unknown to me. For years I've been trying to pinpoint exactly what it is that held me back and kept me so reserved to my friends. I'm very sexual. I have many fetishes. Hell, I have so many fetishes that an armpit turns me on and has been the sight and focus of many an orgasm. Yet, to express all the "strange avenues of sex" with my friends is inconceivable. I know others have stated the stigma of sexuality. It is a stigma throughout this culture. This is related to a simple idea in my mind and opinion. Sexuality is savage and uncultured. We are a sophisticated society who exercises self control beyond the need to mindless engage in sexual activity.

I'm not stating this as a mere controversial statement. This is a matter of societal fact. For years, one of the key elements to maintaining racism was the savage nature of the black man and woman. This comes from studying history for the past two years as an aside to all of my other schooling. In order for the white man to maintain power over the black man, it had to prove and convince society as a whole that the white race was superior to the black race. This was done by reducing the black man to a savage and scarcely more than an animal. If the black man were uncultured and not able to maintain self control in society, then he should be pitied and cared for as an animal. Now, we all know the truth of what all that BS really meant. The white man wanted to keep slavery around. I'm terribly sorry if this is not the right path of this topic, but is the THE STAPLE of why I believe we are so limited in expressing sexuality. One of the main reasons black people were viewed as savage is because they openly embraced their sexuality in villages and small communities where widespread public opinion of sexuality held no viability in labeling or policy making.

In order to maintain a "civil" society, we have had so much propaganda expressing that sexuality is a savage act that only animals commit. Look at the bad wrap sexuality gets. Rapist are over sexualized. Women are sluts when they embrace their sexuality. Men flat out shy away from even thinking they can be sexual. It's the bad press of sexuality that has limited the close connections we could be making with each other!

This effects me even now. My girlfriend is taking her trip overseas in Europe. While she is away, she has limited me from going to the gay clubs. She says that I always explore my gay side when she's gone, and gay men are whores who will sleep with anyone just because that's how men are. She said gay men don't care if a man is attached or not. Even the fact that she says "my gay side" shows a compartmentalization of individualism. It's not my gay side! It's who I am! My affection for men is every bit of me as my affection for a good action flick! I'm still the same whole and entire person. I can't just be sides of myself.

This is clearly over generalization and simplification! However, the stigma has been created that gay men are promiscuous immoral whores who care nothing but their own sexual satisfaction. And in turn, I will show my loyalty and earn her trust by not going, even though I've been invited by some very respected friends who would ensure nothing of the sorts would happen. That being aside, I know who I am, and I'm a man of my word.

I believe we are able to make such strong connections here because we look past the public BS views on sexuality. WE EMBRACE IT! In turn, we embrace who we really are! We are men! We feel! We love! We have sides of us and shades of complexity that equal women. It's not a matter of can we feel, it's a matter of how we're treated WHEN we feel. And I'm sad to say that many of us feel closed up to those in our lives because we've been conditioned that way. Even knowing this, opening up to my sister about all the shit I do would be a nightmare neither she nor I would want to encounter. it is because the internet is anonymous and for the most part inconsequential that we can share so openly.

I had a good conversation with Artform and Rumel in chat last night. I mentioned intimacy vs intensity. Rumel asked me if I thought the two were mutually exclusive. In a sense they are to me. However, this truly stems from fear. The fear is that I would overindulge in sexual escapades that will make me want to leave my loving partner and embark on a crazy sex fueled journey. The fact is, they do not have to be mutually exclusive, and that journey can be every bit as exciting, just a different path. In my psychology class we studied love and the theory that love is a combination of three factors that form a total of nine possibilities that then equal a type of love based on how the factors combine. Commitment. Passion. Intimacy. Those three factors were this theories elements of love. Only when all three combined was love total. I feel this is another over simplification. Some can love freely all. Some can have sex and not involve love. Some can never feel love at all. Yet, should that limit any of us from being who we truly are? Should any of us feel less sexual, less comfortable with ourselves?

I believe I hide myself from people a lot. I always tell those who want to get to know me that I have a lot of secrets. In reality, my only secret is my sexuality. In hiding my sexuality, I am hiding a large part of myself. To me, sexuality is art, grace, openness, bliss, love, caring, pain, sorrow, joy, every combination of human emotion that can be felt. I feel it is this way because it is a part of us, and I just feel so much all the time. Just like now. I feel I can be emphatic and controversial because I feel accepted by anyone who reads this. Truth be told, it shouldn't matter to me. I should just be able to say it to anyone anyway. But here, I know someone will get it.

I think most men have a hard time understanding these feelings. If we tell a guy friend how good something felt sexually, he can understand an orgasm. If we tell a guy about energies abounding and connecting to a universal web of sexual bliss and love, I think someone's calling for a psych eval. So that's why I hide my sexuality. If someone's not ready to open up and accept it within themselves, then I can't expect them to accept what's inside of me, and I wouldn't want to overwhelm or make anyone else uncomfortable. But, sometimes it takes a little challenge and probing to get someone to question themselves in order for them to fully realize what they could be capable of.

Gentlemen, gay, straight, bi, trans, or whatever, embrace all of who you are and be the model that others can use to try and find themselves as we have found ourselves. Thank you for bearing with me once again. Upon request, I will quit prattling on in long posts. :D

[QUOTE=rikaaim;48346]This right here is the named unknown to me. For years I've been trying to pinpoint exactly what it is that held me back and kept me so reserved to my friends. I'm very sexual. I have many fetishes. Hell, I have so many fetishes that an armpit turns me on and has been the sight and focus of many an orgasm. Yet, to express all the "strange avenues of sex" with my friends is inconceivable. I know others have stated the stigma of sexuality. It is a stigma throughout this culture. This is related to a simple idea in my mind and opinion. Sexuality is savage and uncultured. We are a sophisticated society who exercises self control beyond the need to mindless engage in sexual activity.

I'm not stating this as a mere controversial statement. This is a matter of societal fact. For years, one of the key elements to maintaining racism was the savage nature of the black man and woman. This comes from studying history for the past two years as an aside to all of my other schooling. In order for the white man to maintain power over the black man, it had to prove and convince society as a whole that the white race was superior to the black race. This was done by reducing the black man to a savage and scarcely more than an animal. If the black man were uncultured and not able to maintain self control in society, then he should be pitied and cared for as an animal. Now, we all know the truth of what all that BS really meant. The white man wanted to keep slavery around. I'm terribly sorry if this is not the right path of this topic, but is the THE STAPLE of why I believe we are so limited in expressing sexuality. One of the main reasons black people were viewed as savage is because they openly embraced their sexuality in villages and small communities where widespread public opinion of sexuality held no viability in labeling or policy making.

In order to maintain a "civil" society, we have had so much propaganda expressing that sexuality is a savage act that only animals commit. Look at the bad wrap sexuality gets. Rapist are over sexualized. Women are sluts when they embrace their sexuality. Men flat out shy away from even thinking they can be sexual. It's the bad press of sexuality that has limited the close connections we could be making with each other!

This effects me even now. My girlfriend is taking her trip overseas in Europe. While she is away, she has limited me from going to the gay clubs. She says that I always explore my gay side when she's gone, and gay men are whores who will sleep with anyone just because that's how men are. She said gay men don't care if a man is attached or not. Even the fact that she says "my gay side" shows a compartmentalization of individualism. It's not my gay side! It's who I am! My affection for men is every bit of me as my affection for a good action flick! I'm still the same whole and entire person. I can't just be sides of myself.

This is clearly over generalization and simplification! However, the stigma has been created that gay men are promiscuous immoral whores who care nothing but their own sexual satisfaction. And in turn, I will show my loyalty and earn her trust by not going, even though I've been invited by some very respected friends who would ensure nothing of the sorts would happen. That being aside, I know who I am, and I'm a man of my word.

I believe we are able to make such strong connections here because we look past the public BS views on sexuality. WE EMBRACE IT! In turn, we embrace who we really are! We are men! We feel! We love! We have sides of us and shades of complexity that equal women. It's not a matter of can we feel, it's a matter of how we're treated WHEN we feel. And I'm sad to say that many of us feel closed up to those in our lives because we've been conditioned that way. Even knowing this, opening up to my sister about all the shit I do would be a nightmare neither she nor I would want to encounter. it is because the internet is anonymous and for the most part inconsequential that we can share so openly.

I had a good conversation with Artform and Rumel in chat last night. I mentioned intimacy vs intensity. Rumel asked me if I thought the two were mutually exclusive. In a sense they are to me. However, this truly stems from fear. The fear is that I would overindulge in sexual escapades that will make me want to leave my loving partner and embark on a crazy sex fueled journey. The fact is, they do not have to be mutually exclusive, and that journey can be every bit as exciting, just a different path. In my psychology class we studied love and the theory that love is a combination of three factors that form a total of nine possibilities that then equal a type of love based on how the factors combine. Commitment. Passion. Intimacy. Those three factors were this theories elements of love. Only when all three combined was love total. I feel this is another over simplification. Some can love freely all. Some can have sex and not involve love. Some can never feel love at all. Yet, should that limit any of us from being who we truly are? Should any of us feel less sexual, less comfortable with ourselves?

I believe I hide myself from people a lot. I always tell those who want to get to know me that I have a lot of secrets. In reality, my only secret is my sexuality. In hiding my sexuality, I am hiding a large part of myself. To me, sexuality is art, grace, openness, bliss, love, caring, pain, sorrow, joy, every combination of human emotion that can be felt. I feel it is this way because it is a part of us, and I just feel so much all the time. Just like now. I feel I can be emphatic and controversial because I feel accepted by anyone who reads this. Truth be told, it shouldn't matter to me. I should just be able to say it to anyone anyway. But here, I know someone will get it.

I think most men have a hard time understanding these feelings. If we tell a guy friend how good something felt sexually, he can understand an orgasm. If we tell a guy about energies abounding and connecting to a universal web of sexual bliss and love, I think someone's calling for a psych eval. So that's why I hide my sexuality. If someone's not ready to open up and accept it within themselves, then I can't expect them to accept what's inside of me, and I wouldn't want to overwhelm or make anyone else uncomfortable. But, sometimes it takes a little challenge and probing to get someone to question themselves in order for them to fully realize what they could be capable of.

Gentlemen, gay, straight, bi, trans, or whatever, embrace all of who you are and be the model that others can use to try and find themselves as we have found ourselves. Thank you for bearing with me once again. Upon request, I will quit prattling on in long posts. :D

RakaaimI am going to print your post here as I have the last one, since there is so much to ponder during meditation. This thread has evolved so much from the title that I wish it could be renamed, and maybe more member would read it and reply with their wisdom. I consider myself agnostic (not particularly as opposed to religious) because I question everything, not the least being religious doctrine and teaching, and certainly concerning sexual morality. I am finding myself moving away from dualistic thinking, such as good or bad, black or white, poor examples, but all that come to mind at the moment. I am finding it including gay or str8. I am seeing things more as both/and, and sort of zenny in terms of maybe yes, maybe no, to what is often considered truth, etc. The blending of what is often considered separate regarding sex as solely pleasure compartmentalized from the rest of life and sex, instead of integrated That's all for now until I ponder some more. There is getting to be so much of interest to me on this site that

I meant to edit the Rikaam post to shorten it, but didn't. Also I cut myself at the end and didn't finish. Duh! Chalk it up to overload.There is getting to be so much on this site that is of interest to me that I could be on 24/7, but I really do have more of a life. It is a terrific education for me though.

Someone please tell rikaaim that he has a fan, would love to read another story from him... i loved 'a lost love.'

that said, i have no request at all that he stops prattling on.

this site has given me something valuable to me and i feel very privileged to be a part of it.

Back in february i had an experience that blew me away, it gave me a new outlook on sexuality and grave understanding... this didn't come gradually.It hit me like a sledgehammer. from darkness to light, asleep to waking.

i badly needed a mode of expression. for that this forum was there for me from the first and it still continues to be here.

there is nobody in my life i could have discussions such as the like i have in here. but i am trying to make a difference around me, though very difficult as it's extremely difficult to communicate, maybe it'll get easier with experience.

It is posts such as yours that re-affirm the specialness of this Forum, they are not "prattling"s, they are heartfelt outpourings of honest feelings. I am sure many of those feelings being expressed resonate with your fellow Forum members, regardless of their sexual orientation. I know I can empathize with your frustration with a culture which wants to define our 'maleness' within a narrow Puritanical structure while espousing a belief in freedom of thought and action. It is a paradoxical, almost schizophrenic, aspect of our enculturation when men spend millions of dollars on pornographic fantasies but shun simple male to male, honest discussions of our infinite capacity for sensual exploration. This Forum is indeed a special place for men (and their partners, male or female) to interact and discuss not only intimate aspects of our sexuality but to do so in a non-judgmental, exploratory, light hearted and honest manner.

As a group, the Aneros Forum members, are an avant garde group of highly varied individuals who are literally helping to redefine the scope of male sexuality in the western world. Perhaps, we can break down some myths, destroy some stereotypes, and elevate peoples consciousness in the process. As a member of this group, you are already in a very special, informed, intelligent, open-minded sub-set of American culture, I hope the specialness of this group stimulates you to increase its cultural reach to make prostate massage an open discussed topic amongst the general public. Obviously, as 'rikaaim' pointed out, the taboos concerning this topic must be tactfully dealt with in our individual conversations with other men lest we be labeled as deviants and our knowledge dismissed. Increasing public awareness is a goal I hoped to aid progress toward when I created the thread Ideas for Spreading the Word..., I hope you'll join me in that goal as well.

We all have strengths. You may feel as if you are prattling. But, my friend, you are clarifying and enlightening many things that many of us have a hard time expressing. You also confirm and solidify many thoughts/feelings I have been having over the last year or so. That, in my opinion, is a strength of yours.

I am discovering the beauty of healthy man/man relationships, and I am gaining much from those relationships. But, to be honest, I still have to fight off the inculturation I have in me. But, MY tide is turning. And it is not turning against me or my beliefs. Instead it is turning WITH me and my beliefs. The truth of what a quality man/man relationship can be wins over the stereotypes over and over, in my experiences. And I find it so RIGHT.

I'm enjoying everyone's comments on this topic. "Confession is good for the soul," I've heard, and what better forum than this (a safe, non-judgmental, supportive environment in which the full spectrum of male sexual inclinations is represented) for us to share our innermost, sometimes secret, thoughts and fantasies about male bonding and to what extent we can achieve it? I feel lucky to be a participant here, just as I have always felt honored in my personal relationships whenever a friend -- straight, bi or gay -- shares such intimacy with me. Hugs to each of you! Please keep writing.

It is posts such as yours that re-affirm the specialness of this Forum, they are not "prattling"s, they are heartfelt outpourings of honest feelings. I am sure many of those feelings being expressed resonate with your fellow Forum members, regardless of their sexual orientation. I know I can empathize with your frustration with a culture which wants to define our 'maleness' within a narrow Puritanical structure while espousing a belief in freedom of thought and action. It is a paradoxical, almost schizophrenic, aspect of our enculturation when men spend millions of dollars on pornographic fantasies but shun simple male to male, honest discussions of our infinite capacity for sensual exploration. This Forum is indeed a special place for men (and their partners, male or female) to interact and discuss not only intimate aspects of our sexuality but to do so in a non-judgmental, exploratory, light hearted and honest manner.

Rumel, I know exactly what you're saying. General society likes to use these paradoxical creations to ensure both men and women remain confused. This is solely my opinion. Billions of dollars are spent in the beauty industry for women. If women didn't feel concerned about their bodies and sexual selves, they would not buy products to enhance their opinions of themselves.

Men are starting to feel this sting as well. By making men feel insecure about themselves, industry can now promote penile enhancement. Body image in the form of body building or supplements have been around for a while. Now a larger market has expanded dealing with the penis directly.

Sadly, this promotion of how a male can "enhance" his penis completely cuts out the option of anal or prostate pleasure and health. How can so many products exist to promote "male health" that only promote half the picture? It's just a shame.

On the radio, there is a local "male clinic" that promotes male health. All it refers in the add is enhancement and erection gain. Also, working in a pharmacy, these last two years, and really just the last 8 months, I have seen a remarkable increase in the number of testosterone products being dispensed. "Low-T" is the dreaded new male disease. At least that's what's being promoted. I know testosterone is a key component of male health. I just wish more was done as mentioned to promote the full spectrum of male health.

[QUOTE=Linum;48332] I want to add my thanks for your very honest account of where you find yourself at the moment. I would say that the conflict you feel between the "need" to explore your sexuality, and the reality of loving your partner is not an uncommon feeling (in my limited experience) which seems to have its origins in the belief that sex and love are one and the same thing. After 20 years in a gay relationship, we now have an "open relationship" simply because we have discovered that love and sex don't always belong together. Although it is not an easy thing, as STING once said "if you love somebody set them free".

I wanted to comment on this also. I have been in two long term relationships now. First, my marriage that ended. Second, this relationship that's going on six years. My marriage was about 8 years in all. I can tell that if my girl were to be sexually active with someone else, if it's just sex, I can understand that. I would be okay. A few years ago we tried that. I wasn't okay. After all she and I have gone through, I know we will be together and how much we care for one another. There's a peace there. I know she does not feel the same. She's five years younger than me. It may be the age difference, or just her makeup, but she has said numerous times she could not bear to see me with another person, man or woman. I respect that and understand. I'm very happy that you have a relationship where boundaries are understood and enjoyment can be found in other avenues. It really is liberating to realize that this world, this life, is just that. It's life. Only we can live ours. Let others judge if they want. If that's how they want their life to be, it's their choice. At some point, we all learn what makes us happy. :) I'm very happy that you've posted Linum. You've given me a lot to think about as well. I've had a few personal "AH Ha!" moments reading your post.

[QUOTE=rikaaim;48346]In my psychology class we studied love and the theory that love is a combination of three factors that form a total of nine possibilities that then equal a type of love based on how the factors combine. Commitment. Passion. Intimacy. Those three factors were this theories elements of love. Only when all three combined was love total. I feel this is another over simplification.

Perhaps we could add "Potential" to the three. In potential, commitment, passion, and intimacy have a future, forward-looking, aspect. Otherwise, the three elements seem to be temporary, for the moment, without persistence.

This thread has been the most thought provoking bit of "prattling" I've been blessed with. Thank you so much and continue.

[QUOTE=Xileh;48442]Perhaps we could add "Potential" to the three. In potential, commitment, passion, and intimacy have a future, forward-looking, aspect. Otherwise, the three elements seem to be temporary, for the moment, without persistence. Yes ! That foward looking, floating on a puffy cloud of expectations does belong.