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my only problem with shirley kissing lulu is that i hate lulu even more than i hate suzaku lulu doesnt deserve love how can an evil genius be in love i just cant see lulu in a relationship with anyone, lulu is to bussy bein zero. besides i think that shirley is to girly girl for lulu, lulu needs someone strong and smart.

this show is gettin better i wonder wat willl happen wen suzaku, karen, and now shirley see zero witout a mask also wat will hapen wen zero and karen see that the pilot of the lancelot is suzaku

Again, it's not like she knows that now. From hindsight or viewer-sight, it might seem inevitable that it will only lead to greater tragedy. But the thing is that Shirley has no frigging clue that Lulu is Zero. The chars don't get to see everything that's going on like we do -_-. To Shirley, Lulu is the guy with the inscrutable char. who seems nice and sometimes helps people and someone she likes. It's only natural that she would want some comfort from him.

My problem with your problem of my problem of your problem is that were focusing right now on that moment. We are looking from Shirely's POV so you really can't critize her.

But alas you are not Shirley are you? And this is the Code Geass Episode 12 Discussion / Poll hence why I am discussing from a viewer's POV. I am merely assessing the story from what we've seen so far, is that not the point to this thread? And yes I can criticize her since I am doing so from a viewer's POV.

Please think of this more thoroughly, if you do in fact care for this character as much as to defend her actions. You, unlike her, have the advantage of knowing the dramatic irony in this story; I would advise you to look at all the angles instead of limiting yourself to her POV, as there is no advantage in doing so. All you are doing is making excuses for her.

And cut the comeback. Yours doesn't even make sense since I was not the original person with the problem.

Why would he even need to make excuses for her? He's trying to explain it from her pov which makes sense because thats what the character perceives. I mean, it would be kinda idiotic to criticise a character for falling in love with her arch-enemy if she doesn't know its her arch-enemy and has no clue at all wouldn't it?

@xcxcxcc: Let me return the question to you, why doesn't an evil genius deserve love?
@Ghostedge: If you put yourself in Shirley's shoe, would her action seem plausible? Keep in note that, she doesn't know the person she is in love is the same person who kills her father.

Random Question: I wonder, if Light knows what Lulu/Zero has done, will he punish him?

For what? Unless Light is a Britannian, it is hard for him to treat Zero as a criminal right now. Zero had been very careful in not to unnecessarily offending people thus far, other than Mr Orange. (And we all know Mr Orange would attempt his revenge at some point.)

Other than that, Zero isn't really guilty of anything worth pursuing. That's the point; Lelouch want to make enemies only when necessary.

Why would he even need to make excuses for her? He's trying to explain it from her pov which makes sense because thats what the character perceives. I mean, it would be kinda idiotic to criticise a character for falling in love with her arch-enemy if she doesn't know its her arch-enemy and has no clue at all wouldn't it?

Ok my, "And yes I can criticize her since I am doing so from a viewer's POV," comment came out the wrong way since it wasn't even a response to anything.

If you look at my first comment,

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhOsTeDgE

My problem with your problem is that you're not looking at the consequences.

So she doesn't know that he's Zero now, but what happens if she finds out?
She looked to him for comfort only to find out that he was the source of her grief to begin with. Some comforting that is.

If she doesn't find out, they both live "happily" ever after. Lulu lives with the guilt forever while Shirley lives her life on a lie. Some happiness that is.

Nothing will come out of this pairing other than lies and sorrow.

I am in no way criticizing Shirley, I am assessing the story.

My, "All you are doing is making excuses for her," comment was a reply to him completely ignoring the whole point in my above comment and apparently mistaking said statement for me criticizing Shirley.

*EDIT* Or perhaps I am missing something, since you also seem to have taken my comment as criticizing of Shirley.

The only thing Shirley can be criticized for is that she's pining for someone who doesn't return her affection and she has failed to see the clues scattered around, small as they may be. No one can begrudge her for trying to spark a relationship between the two of them. She has done no reprehensible thing so far - it's only that she holds very little value compared to the two other and far more promising/symbolic ships, namely LxCC and LxK...and as such, she looks like a vapid girl that needs to get off the stage for more interesting, deeper interactions.

As for this ep, why hate her as she's only a victim of something even Lelouch couldn't have foreseen? I can't even blame her for trying to find even a glimmer of comfort in the one she holds dear, seeing how distraught she is. With Kallen seemingly trying to snatch Lelouch away from her, it's only normal for her to believe that her little world and her hopes were crumbling to ashes...and that she comprehendingly/predictably, desperately tried to catch whatever small chance of happiness/comfort/relief she could find - in other words, force-spark a response from Lelouch.

Random Question: I wonder, if Light knows what Lulu/Zero has done, will he punish him?

Why will he ? Lulu is considered an "anti-hero" char just because we know somewhat about his dark thoughts, and foresee something will happen. Until now, he is not a real criminal in Light's view (and in mine also, though i'm not for Light ^_^) . I dun agree with Klashikari's "Yes if we allow such fantasy (Lelouch would be already dead with the shinjuku incident)" because what Lelouch really did in Shinjuku is saving people (without him many people - innocent or not - would be killed you know). He did kill Clovis, but Clovis deserved it ^_^

However, it is in Light's (n my) view. Each person has his own view. Suzaku, for example, will say "yes", because he has his "righteous idea" that everyone disobeys the law (even the evil law) is evil.

In ep9: Suzaku: Zero should wait for the police to try their best before entering the scene. Ah hah. Even Cornelia knows that the police is incompetent but Suzaku still asks others to wait (maybe for his Lancelot to show off ? Add that the oppotunity for him to success by attacking from outside is <30% as the terrorists would kill the hostages when they felt their loss) --> He cares more about the legal thing (or his role ? ^_^) more than the hostages' lives

In ep11: Suzaku: even you (lulu) save me and others, and get many 11s support (what Suzaku did say), you deserve to be pointed the gun at (by me who owned you a debt) and arrested (by me as I got the order from my Highness who is the legal governer by invasion ^_^). Not to mention "I joined the army so that people dun have to die --- but here the "people" only include Cornelia and her army, while his Lancelot comes so that other maybe-not-people include Zero, the BK, the JLF solders have to die). What is the different btw those solders ? One side serve the empire and one not !

In ep12: dun understand but a "it (Lulu's action) is not justice (correct ^_^) but mine (Suzaku's) is (are you kidding, Su ? ^_^)

As for this ep, why hate her as she's only a victim of something even Lelouch couldn't have foreseen? I can't even blame her for trying to find even a glimmer of comfort in the one she holds dear, seeing how distraught she is. With Kallen seemingly trying to snatch Lelouch away from her, it's only normal for her to believe that her little world and her hopes were crumbling to ashes...and that she comprehendingly/predictably, desperately tried to catch whatever small chance of happiness/comfort/relief she could find - in other words, force-spark a response from Lelouch.

That is exactly why it's reprehensible. Since we are taking things from Shirley's POV, then she believes that Karen and Lelouch are dating. You support her using her grief to cheat on Lelouch?

She actually bring that ticket to him when he intentionally leave it in his room.
CC: "You forgot something" *show Lulu the ticket
Lulu: "I did not forget it. (*take the ticket) Its that I do no know when we will be back. I will just call to cancel her..." *phone ring.

As for this ep, why hate her as she's only a victim of something even Lelouch couldn't have foreseen? I can't even blame her for trying to find even a glimmer of comfort in the one she holds dear, seeing how distraught she is. With Kallen seemingly trying to snatch Lelouch away from her, it's only normal for her to believe that her little world and her hopes were crumbling to ashes...and that she comprehendingly/predictably, desperately tried to catch whatever small chance of happiness/comfort/relief she could find - in other words, force-spark a response from Lelouch.

You can't have something be snatched away when that was never yours to begin with.

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