Clearly you do not realise how hard it is to start up your own small business.

If everyone started up their own business, the market would be so saturated nobody would make any money.

And how long did he make that business, 20 years ago? 30 years ago? Things were a lot different back then, (at least in my country) they left school at 14 and walked up to the factory and said "job please" and they'd have one in seconds, got vital experience and is the reason why they don't really need qualifications these days because they've racked up experience.

If you fail at starting up your own business and it doesn't work out, then you're ****** in today's world. You've not got a proper qualification in comparison to those who do, and you'll find it much harder to get the job you want.

Sure you can still get a job if you don't go to college, but 9 times out of 10 it won't be glamorous or paid as high as you want it.

Thinking you're "too good" to do a job does not equate to that job paying poorly. If you can't find work elsewhere, you can still make a living doing the jobs nobody else wants to do. It's not a great living, but it's a good enough wage that if you are smart about your debt/expenses you can still enjoy life.

No hes right. I am now finishing college and about to go to University so that I can get a half decent job. Until now I have been qualified for very little and given the state of the economy that limited what little there was. So I have been working in a supermarket and barely scraping by. xmonke is absolutely correct in this. But hey, maybe your lucky and have rich parents or you are just too ignorant to care but one day you will grow up and figure this out.

get get proper trade skills from apprenticing from masters* of said trade, I'm in a 6 month butchering apprenticeship currently, which i'm getting $12/h to work and within a year of getting 45k (minimum) annually. and on the side I recently started a blacksmithing apprenticeship for the enjoyment of the art. Imo College truly isn't for everyone, I was a straight A/B student taking AP classes all through high school, and college was not the place for me. It wasn't going to bring me to a career i wanted or enjoyed. and with the current state of education pushing work smarter not harder, decent Vocational jobs are really hurting for employees and pay really well.

i'm in the US, and it's not really them spending time on you, it is people who want a companion/ want to spread knowledge to others, and you work with them, which even if you sometime mess up you are still being helpful in most cases.

though i do agree the master-apprentice thing has fallen to far out of practice

which is a shame really, that kind of thing is a very useful option to have, hell if it was available in the UK I would have taken it, as I said though I did not mention it as I consider that a lucky find, like winning the lottery or becoming a celebrity.

Cause that's what the world needs... a ****** brick layer. Listen.You wanna be a brick layer or welder? Fine. but don't say that others don't need college, cause some of us want a life and a job to support it.

I'm not saying we need layers, hell we should kill them before they breed and take our money. but we could have people go to college and become say a therapist or doctor, someone who helps others, unlike layers who will more than likely screw you over.

Well, unfortunately not all can be doctors and therapists. Actually, the economy of a country can afford to keep those kind of jobs if it makes money, and making money is what the main branches of economy are for. I don't know which ones are they, but I am guessing trade, industry, agriculture and logistics. I think that the US education/job system is really smart making getting higher education so hard for you people, because what economy needs the most are the specialised workers, not scientists, engineers etc. My country is ****** up because you go to University for free, everyone has a masters and now a specialized welder can make more money than an engineer.

A good welder in the US can make more than people who come out of college with a degree in fine arts or any educational subject such as history. Most people are just too stuck up to go into a job like that.

I feel like both sides of this conversation are retards. Sorry, but that's my opinion.

Some jobs don't need college, some jobs do. Regardless of whether or not they should, that's how it is now a days.

That being said, doing what you want to do in life is fine, go all at it. You can make it really good without going to college, just like you can make it really good with going to college. And in through both paths you may get unlucky and still not get what you want.

You have to accept the realities of the world and the market, because society doesn't guarantee you anything all the time, every time.

Also, @ shaddz ... You don't have to go to college to get trade skills from. I worked several years in a theatre in a highschool and am more than qualified for Theatre tech arts.

That being said, you can get through life the way you want to through many options, trade schools, apprenticeships/paid internships, college, the military. There's so many ways it's unbelievable. And believe it or not some college level jobs will take those who don't have it if they have some proof of experience, believe it or not.

Although I agree with you on the most parts... I do not know where you are from but where I am from that is not a trade skill, trade skills are joiners, builders, electricians etc which you have to go to college for so that you can get the correct certification and are not liable to kill large numbers of people by screwing up.

That being said I do not wish to belittle what you do as I do think it is pretty cool

I may be wrong, but I do believe that there are unions and businesses that will pay for you to get a 2-year degree in a trade, or at the very least help out. That being said, yes, you do have to show them that you're hard-working and competent, but in the end, even if a 4 year degree was free, you wouldn't get very far without being hard-working and competent.

Well, I suppose the only thing really "trade"ish about Theatre tech is the set builds.

I still do it occasionally, I never really saw it as a good career path, because it doesn't pay as good until you start working on bigger outlets like Broadway performances...which can pay brain surgeon salaries depending on which position you are...

I tend to agree though with the general sentiment, non-college jobs dont tend to pay as well unless you really spend your time and have a really good talent to work your way up into high paying positions with big businesses.

actually, you do. That is how they keep the quality of workers who don't build **** that just falls down.

Even in an apprenticeship you still spend half the time in college.

as I said, xmoke is right. You will not get a well paying job without being a celebrity, rich parents or a college education. There is only 1 person I know who gets a half decent wage out of college and he builds railway tracks, it is only agency work and the turnover is very high so they don't have to permanently hire which means what it is a temporary thing that still would not amass enough money to get you through a decent education.

by accounts of most of your other replies on FJ you seem to be a pretty cynical and realistic person, that however does not show here as you have no idea how the world works when it comes to jobs, finances or prospects for your future. My advice, don't drop out of school or you will find out all too quickly how fast your life can fall apart.

and here are literally hundreds of other examples (FYI - anything thats marked as a 4 day course, if you click it, will tell you that it is a "taster" course to see if the field is right for you) lmgtfy.com/?q=bricklayer+course

I didnt mean specifically 4 years, but college time certainly, usually 1-2 years. I myself am starting a biology degree, I already did 3 years of sciences in college, then another year going back 10 years later due to "misplaced" grades, and I am starting a 3 years bachelors at the end of the year. Hard work pays off if you're willing to do it

Going back to the original point, you don't rack up $50k in debt from a 2-year degree. Most of them are very affordable, and the money can be made back within a few years in the trade you went to school for

stalini and you are somewhat right but at the same time there are fewer and fewer trade skill jobs going because of that very reason and the fact that due to the economy >MOST< building and trade related companies are losing business and even going under so what you end up with is a smaller debt and an even smaller chance of getting a job as a result. This is wht UK has it right for schooling, not as right as Norway but still not bad.
I will be taking a loan out of 9k a year for university plus expenses of 7.5k a year however if I do not earn over 21k a year then I do not pay anything back, if I fail to earn for 25 years, it gets wiped clean, no more debt. If however I earn over 21k a year it is slowly payed back at a small amount starting at £30 a month, if you move abroad you do not have to pay it back. My brother is a games designer and he says he barely notices his repayments each month. If you work hard for a decent career, the debt doesn't matter, if you take the course in a decent area (transfer if you have to) the debt doesn't matter.
as you said, going back to the original point, you can look for the easy way all you want but for the majority of people, well you may as well be pissing in the wind cus you are gambling whatever you do, you may as well pull your head out of your ass and work hard now for it to pay off in the long run. not rely on ifs and maybes just because you are too lazy to go to college.

"If you work hard for a decent career, the debt doesn't matter". That's one of the points I'm trying to make. If you make good choices in life and don't go to a stupidly expensive school for a degree in a field where you can never make that money back, you're going to fall under and you should for being stupid about your money. If you go to a school you can afford to pay off with a degree you know you can make money in, you'll do well as long as you work hard.

As far as the UK financial aid system goes, that seems to be wholly irresponsible. If you move abroad you don't have to pay it back? That just sounds ridiculous. Where are the consequences for your actions?

And it's not about being too lazy to go to college. College isn't for everyone. These days, it seems like everyone is being told to go to college after they graduate, but all that is doing is forcing kids to make poor choices and end up in debt for years to come. I'm getting a degree in a field that I know I can get a job in, and that I know I can make a good living out of. If I couldn't do that, I might have gotten a technical degree or I might have just gone into the field and worked as a construction worker or something of that sort. The economy still needs people in those "low-education" fields, and that isn't going to change. The problem is people decide they go to college and rack up debt and still end up in those jobs, but now with college expenses and 2-4 years of work less than they could have otherwise.