Snowhazed....Also depends on which guidebook you look at. Anything other then Supertopo is what I'm basing ratings on. Supertopo has definitely softened up the grades by upgrading many climbs and in my opinion, screwing up the system because they are way different. It seems as if Supertopo is trying to match trad with sport grades to get the gym crew a more realistic view of what their getting on which I think is not a bad idea except it messes with established rating systems for areas.
And the Warbler has put up some of the most heinous sandbags in the valley. So I would think that anything he says is easy is normal for mere mortals. Get on Quicksilver sometime and let me know if you think it's 5.9.

My perspectives are undeniably filtered through some forty years since I was doing those routes.

I do remember getting worked over by Ahab on my first go at age 17, I got up it, but the difference btw that day and the next a year later was so dramatic it struck me that it wasn't that it was hard, but that I just didn't know how to climb that well the first time.

Most of the routes I've done in SD are sport bolted and from steep slab to slightly overhanging. Nearly all on really good rock. With my ankle I make sure ledge and groundfall possibilities are minimal. It's old man friendly, IOW. And super pleasant in the dead 'o winter.

On a certain level that stuff in Southern Yosemite looks similar... Not saying this is up to that level of quality and setting, but the routes, scale, features, and protection are along the same lines.

Edit: If we had rated Quicksilver 5.10, it would have been downrated (by some) for sure. Not that that's the reason we rated it 5.9, it just doesn't have any 5.10 moves on it, IMO. Unless you get offroute of course.

I could see rating it 5.10 as a warning of sorts to the uninitiated.

Still sometimes wish we had put 2 or 3 times the bolts on that so more climbers could enjoy it, but it is what it is...

We climb on immutable (with a few exceptions) rock features that were sitting there long before apes evolved into humans. Affixing numbers (grades) to them is a very recent game we play. "Climbs" are neither over or under rated, the arbitrary numbers we give them are transient and will fade away into history.

We climb on immutable (with a few exceptions) rock features that were sitting there long before apes evolved into humans. Affixing numbers (grades) to them is a very recent game we play. "Climbs" are neither over or under rated, the arbitrary numbers we give them are transient and will fade away into history.

Donini's right, we need to start making permanent plaques at the base in order to memorialize the grade forever.