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Well, when it rains it pours. Stuck in the airport and have been told to wait, looks like it will first be tomorrow that I can get going...

The link milnerpoint pointed out is not an official page, but some chat page with some disgruntled customers (how stupid of me not being able to find it and take this page as something official). How does he know that Steam is going through some difficulties since there is no official word on it? This is not something that happened a couple of hours ago, and I can tell you that this is not the first time this has happened to me. I am really glad that some don't have this problem, because therefore this is clearly not a problem at all...

The link i posted is from the official steam forums, which really wasnt that hard to find,

I never said it happened a couple of hours ago, but like most softwares, problems are not fixed in 5 minutes.

Yeah, but you are comming with statements that Steam has some update problem and that they are doing everything they can to fix this problem - because they know about the problem? You know all this because....?

Next time I dont make it into work I shall say "Im not unreliable, far from it. I just havent made it into the office yet". I do appreciate that your post was trying to help though. FINALLY have opened a new accout (thats 60 mins of my life I wont get back). I am trying to do as I should but why should my experience not be typical? And is this acceptabe? - do remember without DRM you can just put the disc in and play. Anyway I am one step nearer to getting set through Steam for FM12 BUT so far this experience is all I dreaded it to be. To be frank, DRM is a good idea- I just doubt Unilock & Steam are trustworthy enough to make it reliable - or as reliable as would find acceptable, anyway.

A more appropriate analogy would have been going into work but only doing half of what your suppose to. (sorry kriss)
Hopefully the rest of your steam experience will be like mine.

Yeah, but you are comming with statements that Steam has some update problem and that they are doing everything they can to fix this problem - because they know about the problem? You know all this because....?

Because i actually spent time on their forums and read posts from their dev's stating so. Its a known issue and its being worked on, there isnt much else they can say at is there?

So, forum chat should be regarded as official statements? It's a known issue? Where exactly does Steam state that they know about it and ar doing something about it?

If you tell me some Forum chat is official then all I can say is: are you kidding me?...

To be honest, do your own research, ive tried to help, you clearly dont want it. Like on here dev's have special avatars so they are easy to spot, when they post they are aware of issues and are working on them i take that as valve are aware and are working on the problem. You go into the bugs forum on here and its exactly the same.

There was an ongoing issue with the Beta of the newest build they released which they thought they had sorted before going live with it, obviously they didnt sort the problem out fully, it was a well known issue apparently if you took part in the beta. It seems to revolve around steam not reconising your account for whatever reason, its either trying to access a wrong account or just not finding the account details, but like the most annoying bugs it doesnt seem to happen to everyone, hence why some of us are fine and others are struggling.

I tell you what we have it easy on here, you should see how easy it is to get banned from the steam forums, anyone who moans about the mods being strict here would last 2-3 posts on there!

There was an ongoing issue with the Beta of the newest build they released which they thought they had sorted before going live with it, obviously they didnt sort the problem out fully, it was a well known issue apparently if you took part in the beta. It seems to revolve around steam not reconising your account for whatever reason, its either trying to access a wrong account or just not finding the account details, but like the most annoying bugs it doesnt seem to happen to everyone, hence why some of us are fine and others are struggling.

I tell you what we have it easy on here, you should see how easy it is to get banned from the steam forums, anyone who moans about the mods being strict here would last 2-3 posts on there!

Ah ok, so glad i didnt tick participate in the beta, nearly signed up for it a few days ago

To be honest, do your own research, ive tried to help, you clearly dont want it. Like on here dev's have special avatars so they are easy to spot, when they post they are aware of issues and are working on them i take that as valve are aware and are working on the problem. You go into the bugs forum on here and its exactly the same.

Well, I just read through your link again and I still can't see a single official statement from anybody. I have been subjected to a form of ridicule because I couldn't find this link, so please point out the paragraph that suggests that it is official...

If you are going to come out with statements like "they know, they are working on it, and what not..." and appearing as if you have your official facts straight then I would kindly request that you present them. Everything else is simply a guess on your part...

Ah ok, so glad i didnt tick participate in the beta, nearly signed up for it a few days ago

I was the same, i thought about being a good "steamer" but with Fm coming out so soon there was no way i was taking the risk, plus i need to cramm as many seasons as possible in my current FM11 save, new batch of youth coming through you know, theres no way i leave this save behind without watching them grow!!

Well, I just read through your link again and I still can't see a single official statement from anybody. I have been subjected to a form of ridicule because I couldn't find this link, so please point out the paragraph that suggests that it is official...

If you are going to come out with statements like "they know, they are working on it, and what not..." and appearing as if you have your official facts straight then I would kindly request that you present them. Everything else is simply a guess on your part...

If it's official, then it's official...

I never ridiculed you, you said it wasnt an official link, it doesnt come much more official than the steam forum, you said it was hard to find i showed you it was second on the list in google if you tried. There is a whole forum there if your really bothered you can have a look, there is a lot of very useful info on their forums. I am mearly passing over bits and pieces i have read to maybe help a few people or to at least let them know their computer or what they are doing may not be the problem and that even tho they are having issues now it should be fixed.

I think you still are not getting the point. I give up, your right, it's official - Steam has a page dedicated to what is wrong/could be wrong/what causes it and officially they have stated they are doing something about it.

I think you still are not getting the point. I give up, your right, it's official - Steam has a page dedicated to what is wrong/could be wrong/what causes it and officially they have stated they are doing something about it.

My god

Read again. It was a question.

Why so upset when trying to help? All you had to say was "no, that's not what i'm after", or something similar.

This is going nowhere- why dont you all go and watch some TV or play FM or another video game or talk to the wife/partner or walk the dog or something useful and give this discussion a break for a while?

This is going nowhere- why dont you all go and watch some TV or play FM or another video game or talk to the wife/partner or walk the dog or something useful and give this discussion a break for a while?

Perhaps Steam is not letting them access their games - unlikely I know but could happen....:-)

If SI think that this will make any difference then they are sorely mistaken. Crackers will always find a way to pirate the game. Heck, some of the very best probably already know how they're going to do it already.

Also, as well as the ones without the internet, what about us that aren't blessed with high spec machines? Granted the user will need to meet the minimum spec, but Steam is still another background application that's going to eat away at valuable ram.

As someone who already possesses games on Steam, having valued price over the issues I've had with the system, I'm certainly apprehensive. I'll be picking the game up on day one as normal, though I have no idea whether I will have internet access by that time so it could be gathering dust. Guess I should have seen it coming, though I can't help feeling disappointed that this is the road my main game is going down...

If SI think that this will make any difference then they are sorely mistaken. Crackers will always find a way to pirate the game. Heck, some of the very best probably already know how they're going to do it already.

Also, as well as the ones without the internet, what about us that aren't blessed with high spec machines? Granted the user will need to meet the minimum spec, but Steam is still another background application that's going to eat away at valuable ram.

Morning all...just watching an improved england performance in the rugby (all be it against Romania)

There appears to be a solution to those not being able to log in. The bug is a "case sensitive" issue with your log in details. The steps i took to fix the problems were:

1) Whilst in Steam account click on "Change User" - this should log you out and clear any pre existing saved info
2) Re-Log in but when entering your user name enter it ALL in LOWER CASE!!! Then enter your password and make sure you have it set that Steam remembers your details.
3) In settings check that "Do not save account credentials on this computer" box is not checked
4) Click on Go Offline and then click Restart in offline mode
5) Hopefully problem sorted...

Just a quick thank you to milnerpoint and eugene tyson for their help and "patience" ;-)

Last edited by LambyGHS; 24-09-2011 at 06:58.
Reason: Added abit more info

For the last time- the Mods have tried very hard to let this thread continue so that those with comments, both positive and negative, can air their views. In the last 2 or 3 days this has now developed into a few specific posters discussing, arguing, sniping and being pedantic about the issues. It is time to move on- the decision has been taken, SI and SEGA are aware of the concerns of the forum and I am sure will try to alleviate those that they can. We have no desire to start issuing infractions , so be very sure that any further comments are relevant, reasonable and civil, because there will be no more warnings for anyone who crosses these lines.

For the last time- the Mods have tried very hard to let this thread continue so that those with comments, both positive and negative, can air their views. In the last 2 or 3 days this has now developed into a few specific posters discussing, arguing, sniping and being pedantic about the issues. It is time to move on- the decision has been taken, SI and SEGA are aware of the concerns of the forum and I am sure will try to alleviate those that they can. We have no desire to start issuing infractions , so be very sure that any further comments are relevant, reasonable and civil, because there will be no more warnings for anyone who crosses these lines.

Fair comment. I have a suggestion to pass on to the SI /Steam "negotiators". Could activation commence at approx 3AM on release day. This way it is too late for the vast majority to be activating, and too early also. That way only a small number would be testing the process but this would help relieve the "rush hour" (around 9AM) demand on the servers and give maybe 6 hours for remote monitoring by the tech Guys. This way if something goes wrong you have 6 hours to sort any unforeseen issues and you get a manageable test customer base activation sample. Just thinking of covering all bases, and hoping that this controversial decision having been made in such a bullish way that a silly o'clock start for some Tech Support staff is not too unreasonable a request.

Lol I dunno, have you seen how keen some FM players are (I include myself in this)? Wouldn't put it past a significant number staying up for it. But agree with the idea of the tech support (if its not in place already).

Having recently taken a break from flight simming to give FM2011 a try, I found I was really enjoying playing and was seriously looking forward to FM2012. Now that Steam are involved however I have decided to return to flight simming and forget all about FM. Sorry guys but this is a no go for me. Am now planning my next tranatlantic flight, so its back to flight simming for me.

Wow...What's with all the Steam hate? What will it actually cost you just to install it?

*shrug*

Steam doesn't make you do anything you don't want to do. It doesn't force games on you, it doesn't force you to pay any fees for using it. So I don't really understand what everyone seems to have an issue about? Maybe I'm missing something? Someone care to enlighten me?

Wow...What's with all the Steam hate? What will it actually cost you just to install it?

*shrug*

Steam doesn't make you do anything you don't want to do. It doesn't force games on you, it doesn't force you to pay any fees for using it. So I don't really understand what everyone seems to have an issue about? Maybe I'm missing something? Someone care to enlighten me?

It cost me 1 hour to set up with all the faffing about (see previous posts) so you tell me, how much do you earn per hour - that will be an approximate real cost.

A few years ago when Empire: Total War required Steam activation, I was sceptical. But to be fair, it made me realise how convenient the platform is. I've now downloaded the three previous iterations of FM using it - quick and simple.

There is only one legal option to play this game - connect to internet/steam and register.

We all know that there will be option to play the game without internet connection also. Illegally of course.

Considering the above, why wouldnt SI leave the option to play the game offline legaly?

You will be able to play FM 2012 without having to connect to the Internet and log in to Steam. You will only have to install it online via Steam and play it for the first time connected to the Internet and logged in to Steam. Or am I missing something?

There is only one legal option to play this game - connect to internet/steam and register.

We all know that there will be option to play the game without internet connection also. Illegally of course.

Considering the above, why wouldnt SI leave the option to play the game offline legaly?

You dont need a internet connection to play the game. You only need it to activate the game.
After that, you can turn steam to offline, and play the game whitout internet connection.
So, in fact, you have the option to play the game offline legaly!

You dont miss anything (apart that youll have to log on again for patches), but as I am in this small wagon of just a few people in the world who dont have the internet connection and cant take my desktop to the street and connect to wireless network, I wont be able to register. As a long time customer I am really disappointed that people will be able to play it without connecting illegally while I wont be able.

what part you dont understand? i dont have the internet connection and i am not able to get one either. While i would buy the game, I cant register it.

While illegal copy will be perfectly suited to play offline completely, why didnt SI provide some legal way of offline gaming.

I wonder why didnt they find a way to register yourself, one who posesses the licence for the software (game) instead of registering the computer. I would be happy to register on internet, with some other computer, but i cant register my desktop.

You authenticate your copy of the game via Steam online. Once that is done you can turn Steam to offline mode, and you no longer need to have internet connected.

However, you must have Steam running to play FM. When you're not playing FM you can quit Steam.

what part you dont understand? i dont have the internet connection and i am not able to get one either. While i would buy the game, I cant register it.

While illegal copy will be perfectly suited to play offline completely, why didnt SI provide some legal way of offline gaming.

I wonder why didnt they find a way to register yourself, one who posesses the licence for the software (game) instead of registering the computer. I would be happy to register on internet, with some other computer, but i cant register my desktop.

Sorry, i read the final posts of the thread, and didn't fully realize your situation.
Like you said, you belong to the small (i believe it's small) group of people that dont have internet, and play the game in a desktop (those who play in a laptop can easily solve that problem).
Have you try send a pm to ony of the gy from SI (Neil Brock, or anyone else), and explain your problem?

Please be advised that currently Offline Mode is not working - as there appears to be some bug with the latest update. See if you can update Steam.

Oh, not very confidence inducing!!! FM12 will be my first Steam download (God help me!), FM demos aside, can anyone confirm if this "bug" effects games already off line or is it getting into offline mode that is the problem? In other words if Im playing FM12 in the near future "offline" will future bugs have any effect on my offline gaming?

Oh, not very confidence inducing!!! FM12 will be my first Steam download (God help me!), FM demos aside, can anyone confirm if this "bug" effects games already off line or is it getting into offline mode that is the problem? In other words if Im playing FM12 in the near future "offline" will future bugs have any effect on my offline gaming?

The bug was in the new client, so if you are "offline" already, you shouldnt be affected by a similar case

The bug was in the new client, so if you are "offline" already, you shouldnt be affected by a similar case

Thanks that reassures me (trusting that their systems are fit for purpose on 21st October), a bit. You really would think Steam may have made a greater effort not to Fxxx things up during this pre FM12 release period (I trust they are aware that this decision to use Steam is not wholey popular with SI Customers?). Or maybe FM12 is not a big deal to them - just another game.

You really would think Steam may have made a greater effort not to Fxxx things up during this pre FM12 release period (I trust they are aware that this decision to use Steam is not wholey popular with SI Customers?).

The timing of the special deals on SEGA games would suggest that they are trying to tempt people who play FM into giving it a try, though obviously the games on offer won't appeal to all. Picked my TW mega pack for £11.90 today

Murphy's law on computing states; " A person advocating that a piece of software is the bees knees, is a guarantee that said software will develop a bug"

It's just not really on, is it? The box presumably won't inform the customer that he/she may not be able to actually play the game whilst offline.

Like I've said before - I'm not keen on online activation, but if it's a necessary evil to beat piracy we'll just have to accept it. Running Steam constantly isn't the same as a one-off activation. It's intrusive, unnecessary and can potentially deny access to the game the customer has legitimately purchased. It shouldn't be the only option.

Will it be problem if I use internet tethering via my iPhone to activate? I don't have a connection at home, nor am I likely to have one in the next month.

All in all, not really that pleased as I sometimes have problems with Steam not always remembering my offline details. Meaning I then have to cart my whole setup round to my mums house and log back on JUST to play the game!

It's up to Steam to make sure this isn't an issue, if there's a known problem they should fix it.

Again, I've repeatedly pointed out that being denied access to your game for any amount of time at all by Steam is unacceptable. You've paid for it and a third party program shouldn't be stopping you playing it. A minute is too long.

I had Steam several 1000 years ago, but can't remember my log in details or anything. Does anyone now how to update their email address in it or will I have to re-register from scratch (can I do this on this computer)?

Again, I've repeatedly pointed out that being denied access to your game for any amount of time at all by Steam is unacceptable. You've paid for it and a third party program shouldn't be stopping you playing it. A minute is too long.

I dont like Steam as they limit the use of your property and put files in silly and sometimes unusable locations and formats.

Could someone from SI please tell me whether all the files of the game will be accessible? I mainly ask for inserting editor files and facepacks etc. If they are accessible are they in the same location as before or hidden somewhere in steams hieroglyphics?

Again, I've repeatedly pointed out that being denied access to your game for any amount of time at all by Steam is unacceptable. You've paid for it and a third party program shouldn't be stopping you playing it. A minute is too long.

Sadly some do not agree with you - I wonder if the world has gone mad!

Well at risk of getting banned again, (even though if I was pro-steam ala Eugene I could wind up every single person who has a problem with impunity and if I was Kriss... I'd be able to let him whilst banning those he upsets with his constant deliberate ignorance)

I want to know, in minute, finite, absolute detail, every single tiny little thing that Steam would be doing on my computer whilst it is running in both online or offline mode if I were to be stupid enough to install it (I doubt anything anybody can say will convince me but we'll see..). I want to know what areas of my computer it is accessing, what data it is sharing and with whom, and why, and anything else that you're not telling us.

And I DO NOT want anybody who is not DIRECTLY related to SI, SEGA or Valve to respond to me, because you shouldn't be even be posting in this thread if you are OK with Steam... (but Kriss let's it ride...). So, can someone from SI/SEGA/Valve tell me exactly what the program does?

and don't say it's doing nothing in offline mode because if it was doing nothing it would not be using resources, AT ALL... nil ram, nil processor time, nil network time, nothing, nada, zilch! So, for once, can someone who has a bit of authority tell us the truth about what exactly we are letting ourselves in for when we install Steam (if we do)? Please?

I repeat, DO NOT REPLY IF YOU DO NOT WORK FOR SI, SEGA or Valve! Nor do I want to be clicking links, I want a direct answer to a direct question, and preferably an honest one...

If you shut down your PC but you're still connected to Steam, the Screenshot Manager message comes up. If you log out of Steam and then shut down, you don't see the message.

The thing is Steam is not connected. It auto connects when I attempt to log out - no icon, nothing until I click log off then presto!, logo and problem!. This really is seeming like SI trying to make a pigs ear out of a dogs breakfast!

Mankind is the only creature smart enough to know its own history, and dumb enough to ignore it.

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Originally Posted by Lazaru5

Well at risk of getting banned again, (even though if I was pro-steam ala Eugene I could wind up every single person who has a problem with impunity and if I was Kriss... I'd be able to let him whilst banning those he upsets with his constant deliberate ignorance)

I want to know, in minute, finite, absolute detail, every single tiny little thing that Steam would be doing on my computer whilst it is running in both online or offline mode if I were to be stupid enough to install it (I doubt anything anybody can say will convince me but we'll see..). I want to know what areas of my computer it is accessing, what data it is sharing and with whom, and why, and anything else that you're not telling us.

And I DO NOT want anybody who is not DIRECTLY related to SI, SEGA or Valve to respond to me, because you shouldn't be even be posting in this thread if you are OK with Steam... (but Kriss let's it ride...). So, can someone from SI/SEGA/Valve tell me exactly what the program does?

and don't say it's doing nothing in offline mode because if it was doing nothing it would not be using resources, AT ALL... nil ram, nil processor time, nil network time, nothing, nada, zilch! So, for once, can someone who has a bit of authority tell us the truth about what exactly we are letting ourselves in for when we install Steam (if we do)? Please?

I repeat, DO NOT REPLY IF YOU DO NOT WORK FOR SI, SEGA or Valve! Nor do I want to be clicking links, I want a direct answer to a direct question, and preferably an honest one...

If you read the ban message you'll see it wasn't me who banned you.
If you actually want those questions answered you should ask somewhere where they can be and that's not here, but here General information: contact@valvesoftware.com
If you continue posting in this manner you'll get a permanent ban.

Mankind is the only creature smart enough to know its own history, and dumb enough to ignore it.

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Originally Posted by tigerhgrrrrrr

The thing is Steam is not connected. It auto connects when I attempt to log out - no icon, nothing until I click log off then presto!, logo and problem!. This really is seeming like SI trying to make a pigs ear out of a dogs breakfast!

I think the connected there is a misnomer, it should say it's still running whether on or offline so close it before shutting down your PC. it's true you don't see anything for screenshot manager as it's not an entity on it's own but part of the Steam app.

I think the connected there is a misnomer, it should say it's still running whether on or offline so close it before shutting down your PC. it's true you don't see anything for screenshot manager as it's not an entity on it's own but part of the Steam app.

Kriss I dont expect a reply to this but I would like to state the following:
a/ This Steam situation is not good. I keep hearing explanations that things are not working as they should, or software update issues - basically excuses for Steam not working properly all of which seem to be driving loyal Customers of many years away from this new release.
b/ There was the SI/FM Britain falling out. Im not sure I want to go into the details of that but the way it was handled ended in the FM Britain people stepping back from official FM representation BUT they were the only ones who made presentable technical sense of the awful pre-Creator slider-fest that made the pre FM10 games awkward to master.

I really do wonder at these "decisions" by SI (Sega of course I really mean!). Did someone drop the stupid bomb on SI Towers?

Mankind is the only creature smart enough to know its own history, and dumb enough to ignore it.

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Originally Posted by tigerhgrrrrrr

Kriss I dont expect a reply to this but I would like to state the following:
a/ This Steam situation is not good. I keep hearing explanations that things are not working as they should, or software update issues - basically excuses for Steam not working properly all of which seem to be driving loyal Customers of many years away from this new release.
b/ There was the SI/FM Britain falling out. Im not sure I want to go into the details of that but the way it was handled ended in the FM Britain people stepping back from official FM representation BUT they were the only ones who made presentable technical sense of the awful pre-Creator slider-fest that made the pre FM10 games awkward to master.

I really do wonder at these "decisions" by SI (Sega of course I really mean!). Did someone drop the stupid bomb on SI Towers?

I agree it's not good, ideally nobody would have any issues with installing Steam or reviving an old account, however small the number of people suffering it needs addressing pronto.
To me the one downside of this is that Sega/SI will take a hit if Steam fail to produce.
It is however still nearly a month to release and I'd hope (and very much expect) that Sega/SI will be rattling cages with Steam to make sure they resolve any issues in time.

I agree it's not good, ideally nobody would have any issues with installing Steam or reviving an old account, however small the number of people suffering it needs addressing pronto.
To me the one downside of this is that Sega/SI will take a hit if Steam fail to produce.
It is however still nearly a month to release and I'd hope (and very much expect) that Sega/SI will be rattling cages with Steam to make sure they resolve any issues in time.

Let's hope the cage rattling brings the desired result (although that should have been resolved before the DRM announcements). I once heard that the definition of insanity is repeating the same plan when it has aleady failed and expecting a different more positive outcome. We shall see....

Mankind is the only creature smart enough to know its own history, and dumb enough to ignore it.

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Originally Posted by tigerhgrrrrrr

Let's hope the cage rattling brings the desired result (although that should have been resolved before the DRM announcements). I once heard that the definition of insanity is repeating the same plan when it has aleady failed and expecting a different more positive outcome. We shall see....

If we take FM09 as the reference point I don't see how it can go anyway but up tbh, that was a debacle pure and simple, in theory this should be far more efficient and effective but as you say the proof of the pudding is always in the eating.

I dont like Steam as they limit the use of your property and put files in silly and sometimes unusable locations and formats.

Could someone from SI please tell me whether all the files of the game will be accessible? I mainly ask for inserting editor files and facepacks etc. If they are accessible are they in the same location as before or hidden somewhere in steams hieroglyphics?

I agree it's not good, ideally nobody would have any issues with installing Steam or reviving an old account, however small the number of people suffering it needs addressing pronto.
To me the one downside of this is that Sega/SI will take a hit if Steam fail to produce.
It is however still nearly a month to release and I'd hope (and very much expect) that Sega/SI will be rattling cages with Steam to make sure they resolve any issues in time.

I think this has become a problem becuase I would have thought that old accounts would have been archieved becuase they haven't been used, the same has your hotmail account deactivate after a prolonged period of time (I think) and Steam most prob release the update to be able to retrieve the achieved information but went wrong some where (again I think). After I downloaded steam I decided to play FM10 so had to install it, so I went through the steam route only to find it had already been registered to an old steam account I didn't bother trying to retrieve it becuase no longer use the email address. So installed it through disc. But my FM11 I installed through steam using my current email address and everything is fine I havent had any problems (touch wood).

I don't think Steam have really had to deal with this level of retrieving old accounts because the majority of people that use steam, use it regular and have bought games through them.

I'm a casual Steam user. Though ideally, I'd rather like to see SI/Sega try to improve the value of their product to convince more people to actually pay, rather than diminish it - as even according to Valve's Gabe Newell, ironically perhaps, DRM measures are doing for customers. Some DRM schemes are this strict that they not only diminish the worth of a legal copy, but make pirated copies more attractive than the legal copy at the same time! In all fairness: Despite ever-rising development costs and budgets, the price tags of games have remained largely the same for like 15, 20 years now. But we're living in a throaway-society where much is being treated as a throwaway-product - and this isn't just the consumers, but those who are selling to consumers too. People don't buy music albums for their collection, they download a song for their ipod which will be one song amonst a library of thousands. On the internet, many product of quality can be had for totally free: music, articles, information, games.

Certainly the idea of value and worth that a product holds has massively shifted over the last couple of years. No, the money you pay for a game, a record or a book isn't meant to merely cover the costs of production. But people tend to be simple - I am not different, nor are you. Instead of trying to improve the value of their products (extras, service) though, publishers have the habit to further diminish said values. For most games, it makes no difference whatsoever whether you just got them onto your hard drive by whichever means - or whether you actually paid for them. Physically, extras that used to be comparably common during the 90s (entertaining documenations, maps, posters) have been made the stock of more expensive collector's editions, and even with hit game's like Half Life 2, all you get "out of the box" is a DVD, a flimsy DVD-case, a rushed cover artwork and a printed EULA - that's it. It is something meant to be thrown away immediately. Not that FM ever did hold anything special inside (imagine SI teaming up with a writer astute in football tactics - or offering World Cup/EURO save games for everyone registered for example), I was still surprised to see that even what little documentation the game shipped with prior was completely axed. What can be read is now put online, available for everyone. This might sound equally simple, and this might sound a tad idealist, but you do the Maths.

I'm a casual Steam user. Though ideally, I'd rather like to see SI/Sega try to improve the value of their product to convince more people to actually pay, rather than diminish it - as even according to Valve's Gabe Newell, ironically perhaps, DRM measures are doing for customers. Some DRM schemes are this strict that they not only diminish the worth of a legal copy, but make pirated copies more attractive than the legal copy at the same time! In all fairness: Despite ever-rising development costs and budgets, the price tags of games have remained largely the same for like 15, 20 years now. But we're living in a throaway-society where much is being treated as a throwaway-product - and this isn't just the consumers, but those who are selling to consumers too. People don't buy music albums for their collection, they download a song for their ipod which will be one song amonst a library of thousands. On the internet, many product of quality can be had for totally free: music, articles, information, games.

Certainly the idea of value and worth that a product holds has massively shifted over the last couple of years. No, the money you pay for a game, a record or a book isn't meant to merely cover the costs of production. But people tend to be simple - I am not different, nor are you. Instead of trying to improve the value of their products (extras, service) though, publishers have the habit to further diminish said values. For most games, it makes no difference whatsoever whether you just got them onto your hard drive by whichever means - or whether you actually paid for them. Physically, extras that used to be comparably common during the 90s (entertaining documenations, maps, posters) have been made the stock of more expensive collector's editions, and even with hit game's like Half Life 2, all you get "out of the box" is a DVD, a flimsy DVD-case, a rushed cover artwork and a printed EULA - that's it. It is something meant to be thrown away immediately. Not that FM ever did hold anything special inside (imagine SI teaming up with a writer astute in football tactics - or offering World Cup/EURO save games for everyone registered for example), I was still surprised to see that even what little documentation the game shipped with prior was completely axed. What can be read is now put online, available for everyone. This might sound equally simple, and this might sound a tad idealist, but you do the Maths.

I have always thought that to give a giveaway within the game packaging for something that game players would really want (maybe an unforgeable voucher for a tactics notebook or something) would be the way to ensure purchase rather than resorting to "intelectual theft" of the product. Those who go the pirated route would then only be those who would never purchase for £30 anyway ensuring minimal losses due to snide copies. Nowadays digital downloads have made that an antiquated ideal so it is literally too late to action that. The 10 year + players of SI's footy games will recall (CM00/01 springs to mind) a colourful fold out poster which detailed all the Leagues in the game with game rules etc, a lovely touch but as I said that ship has sailed now.

A note to Steam, if I had smoothly opened my Steam account on Friday, and had no log on problems yesterday(instead of all the issues I did experience eventually getting the account set up & partially operational) you would now have my pre-order or a least a £30 payment to my Steam wallet, instead I am going to suck and see with the demo download.

I am starting to suspect that those who made the Steam activation decision are furious that this weekends problems have occurred, they have been made to look incompetent at best. Would love to have been a fly on the wall when the decision makers realised Steam had (at least in the short term) sold them a pup.

Here's a possible contender for Kriss' "Murphy's Law" list;
What 's the worst thing that could go wrong with this kind of exclusive DRM method? A bug in the game that prevents activation perhaps! No, that's unthinkable, everyone knows that software is subject to rigorous testing and never contains bugs.

Here's a possible contender for Kriss' "Murphy's Law" list;
What 's the worst thing that could go wrong with this kind of exclusive DRM method? A bug in the game that prevents activation perhaps! No, that's unthinkable, everyone knows that software is subject to rigorous testing and never contains bugs.

Or a bug in the game that bypasses DRM totally making the game playable without disk and without activation, and which then hosts the game for anyone to access & play free whilst spamming all of facebook to advertise this effective freebie. Just trying to see positive outcomes! :-)

I have a few quick questions about the install and activation proccedure for FM12,

1) Can I still buy the hardcopy in the shops, as I have every copy of Championship Manager (that SI made) and Football Managers all lined up in order on shelf ?

2) If the answer to above question is Yes, then I would have to install it on my pc and then activate it via Steam ?

3) Can I also install the same copy on my laptop and use it on there afterwards, as I have done with FM11 which used a Key that was printed on the
back of the bookletso I can take it with me when I go away with work and have to stop in boring hotel rooms ?

excellent, I have Steam running no problem on my pc at home, just need to decide if to install it on my work laptop or carry on using FM11 on that one, as so not to incur any issues with running on a work laptop !!. my work don't like things like Bit Torrent running on there laptop but don't think Steam is anything like that and will do anything to how the laptop runs, going to run it in offline mode all the time after activation anyway, so reckon it'll be fine and dandy.

So let me guess, i can activate the game only once? How about if my account get stolen and i never get that back, i need to buy new game right? I know that is very rare, but things like that can still happen.

IMO game is goin wrong direction. Even i play with steam, i just dont like idea that steam activation is the only way to play.

Then you contact Steam support and get it recovered. If you still have control over your email account it's easy to reset your Steam password. Also, if you've activated the Steam Guard system on your Steam account, they can't even login using your user/pass without access to your email as they'd be doing so from a new computer (which needs approving via email).

So let me guess, i can activate the game only once? How about if my account get stolen and i never get that back, i need to buy new game right? I know that is very rare, but things like that can still happen.

that is what steam support is for, and the majority of people who do get hacked will get their account and games back

Then you contact Steam support and get it recovered. If you still have control over your email account it's easy to reset your Steam password. Also, if you've activated the Steam Guard system on your Steam account, they can't even login using your user/pass without access to your email as they'd be doing so from a new computer (which needs approving via email).

aah okay im kind newbie with steam even i have own it about 5 years lol. Still dont like idea but i can live with it.

Some people hate iTunes, I have to say I love it. That is a very good analogy, I hope it will help me accept Steam more easily going forward.

Well, aside from the fact that if you go to HMV and buy a new CD, you don't have to have iTunes installed to listen to it.

I'm a long time opponent of Steam. I'm fine with digital distribution and buy the few games I play as download only these days. I just really dislike Valve's creation of a new monopoly, especially as they are a company I wouldn't buy a game from (no interest in anything I've seen them produce,) and I resent being forced to use their software to play a title that has nothing to do with them - regardless of whether I can play it in some off-line mode. None of the supposed benefits of Steam interest me either. But, well, what does what I think matter as long as Valve make their buck? I'm coming around to the idea I'm going to have to use it some day or give up PC gaming altogether. It doesn't make me very happy.

Where these clients can help with online gamers where some cheat, these clients attempt to prevent that. And they also hope to delay piracy issues. Having to do online gaming through the clients means that pirated versions of the software may not be able to join in online.

I can see the importance of SI using a client like Steam to authenticate your purchase of the game. Seems to be a requirement of purchasing the game, to authenticate it online via Steam.

I guarantee that if the music industries could have a client that only their cds can be played through they would do it. Currently there's no way for them to do this.