I remember it like it was yesterday. My neighbor, a wonderful Christian woman, shared with me her excitement about serving on the board of a newly established organization called Proverbs 31 Ministries. I was thrilled and immediately subscribed to their newsletter (the ministry's primary outreach at the time). Another neighbor held a coffee in her home to promote the ministry, and not long after that a fundraising dinner was held at a museum in downtown Raleigh. My husband and I attended along with our neighbors. The leaders of the organization were introduced, and I was greatly encouraged by their efforts to help Christian women like myself.

Several years later I traveled to Charlotte to attend a Proverbs 31 Ministries conference called "She Speaks". It was designed to assist women with their speaking and writing skills. I was primarily interested in the writing component of the conference. Lysa TerKeurst, the president of Proverbs 31 Ministries, addressed attendees and shared her testimony about how she launched her writing career. She has written several books at that point, which were offered for sale at the conference along with the books written by other women involved with the Proverbs 31 Ministries. It was a motivating experience! Instead of taking action by applying what I learned at the conference, I came home and got right back into my routine of being a wife, mother, volunteer at school, Moms in Touch leader, Bible study participant, Girl Scout co-leader (for two troops!), etc.

Now that my daughters are grown, I hung up some of those well-worn hats and have put on a challenging one – that of blogger… Little did I know at the time I attended the "She Speaks" conference that my primary outlet for writing would be The Wartburg Watch. Blogging was unheard of at the time. At some point I lost interest in Proverbs 31 Ministries and stopped subscribing to the monthly newsletter.

Fast forward… Last year The Gospel Coalition published a review (primarily negative) of Lysa TerKeurst's lastest book – Unglued. The review was written by Nicole Whitacre. I purchased Unglued at the time and was going to write a favorable review. I wondered what Lysa was up to these days, so I started Googling. I had no idea that she attended Elevation Church and was a close friend of the church's pastor – Steven Furtick. The first thing I came across was an interview she conducted three years ago. It is posted on YouTube in three installments: Part 1Part 2Part 3

I did not know much about Furtick at the time other than he had been invited by James MacDonald to speak at The Elephant Room (ER). Turns out he spoke at ER 1 and 2. When I heard about the "Hey Haters" video (uploaded to YouTube on March 1, 2011 by Elevation Church) and watched it, I was absolutely appalled! This is Lysa TerKeurst's pastor? Is this the kind of speech she would approve of at her "She Speaks" conferences?

Apparently, Lysa approves because nine months later she wrote a blog post entitled, He chose to be unafraid, referring to her beloved pastor. Here is a portion of what she wrote:

Too many of us live in the depressing grey shades of a thousand faded passions that might have been.

Because we’re afraid..

But every now and then someone rare comes along. They would rather die than say, “I wish I would have…” Instead, they grit their teeth, lift their raw souls to God, and scream above all the naysayers, “I will! By God I will!”

That’s my pastor.

Never have I seen someone so willing to FEARLESSLY make known the mystery of the gospel than this 31 year old preacher man, named Pastor Steven Furtick…

So, my Pastor had a crazy thought fly into his brain last summer to do an old school revival for 12 nights at the beginning of 2012. One where it wouldn’t be about a church and a preacher but one that would be about THE CHURCH with many preachers. One that would be all about getting the hope of Jesus to the masses.

It was a good idea. But it was a crazy idea…

But Pastor Steven didn’t let it fade. He didn’t let it die. He ignited it. Not because he didn’t feel the pull of fear- but rather because he pressed into God and chose to be unafraid.

This crazy thought turned into an amazing reality- Code Orange Revival. Twelve straight nights. Twelve amazing messages. Twelve passionate preachers. One awe-inspiring purpose- to fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel.

My husband and I have had the privilege to attend much of this revival live and in person. And though I’m a woman of many words, I can’t possibly begin to describe what God is doing.

There is an igniting of souls happening extending all across the globe. People are coming to know Jesus. People are getting baptized. People are finding hope again.

And people are seeing what can happen when one person dares to say, “I’m going to say yes to God’s wild invitation. I’m going to do this!”

Looks like the only member of the compensation committee who did not speak at Code Orange was Jack Graham. Hmmm…. How much did these guys get paid?

Then there was the problem regarding Matt Chandler's message at Code Orange described in this article: Elevation Church Accused of Censoring Reformed Pastor's Sermon. It became fodder for the blogs, and Elevation Church sprang into 'damage control' mode. Just Google Matt Chandler and Code Orange if you are interested in reading more about what occurred.

Perhaps the Code Orange Revival produced such a tremendous harvest that Steven and Holly Furtick are now able to build their dream mansion from all those book sales. Yeah, right… We understand from reliable sources that the Furticks are building their home close to the TerKeursts, who also have really nice digs… Suddenly, Mister Rogers' theme song "Won't you be my neighbor?" is playing in my head…

So we have Lysa TerKeurst promoting her pastor, his conferences and his books; and now we have Steven Furtick 'selling' Proverbs 31 Ministries' latest money-making gimmick – compel training (scroll down to watch Furtick's endorsement).

Lysa TerKeurst, a wife and a mother of five, stays quite busy with her speaking engagements, and one has to wonder how she does it all. Is she the epitome of the Proverbs 31 woman?

It's been interesting to hear the Proverbs 31 Ministries clips on Christian radio stations, and now I can't help but wonder how intertwined the ministries of Furtick and TerKeurst are. Rest assured, we're just getting started with our investigation into these two ministries, and we will continue to keep an eye on them… 🙄

@pcapastor— well played!! Ugh! To use a very anachronistic word, this is just UNSEEMLY! The never-ending cross-pollination and endorsement truly makes the head spin. It is a dirty chain of entanglements and affiliations, and ever-expanding market shares. Who cares if Furtick claims to be a Southern Baptist, but hosts a modalist prosperity shill to assist him because he is FEARLESSLY lifting up the gospel ? !! If the proof really is in the pudding, I invite everyone to the table with a very large spoon—after all, 16,000 square feet may not be "that great of a house," but to us it's a LOT. Of pudding. Hey, Elevators. Bon Appetit!

Deb
Good post. I wonder how much money goes from the coffers of Elevation to pay for these speakers so they can enjoy their nice digs/mansions. Yesterday we got a comment from someone who claims to have learned the Bible so well from Furtick. She proceeded to invoke an imprecatory psalm aimed at us and our readers. Fascinating.

Furtick seems to be concerned about hate. I wonder if he realizes that his fanboys and girls are into that as well. From who did they learn this? Good job-all you Furtick fans. Just keep donating the money and you, too, can have fun watching them live well on your dollar.

Sad news is this. It will not happen to you. No matter how much money you give Furtick, he will keep getting richer and you will not. It’s called a “pyramid” and you are at the bottom.

Thanks for those links. The accompanying comments are also insightful.

Yes, I found the comments section to be very informative. Hard to believe I used to live in Columbia. Fortunately moved away before the Furtick/Noble invasion.

Amazing how so many defend his lifestyle. No, there is nothing wrong with having nice things or a big house, and it is the member’s decision whether or not to contribute to the church, but the non-transparency of finances and the line that’s it all from his book sales (which I find it very hard to believe that so much came from only 2 books) raises a lot of suspicion. And, as Dee and Deb have done the homework for us, all of the connections between the different players on the stage that has become modern Christianity. Lots of back scratching going on!

Food for thought:
I attend the largest megachurch in the world which has multiple campuses in almost every city. The campus pastor makes less than $40,000 per year (many aren’t even paid) and they don’t teach tithing as mandatory for Christians.

I don’t know about what appears to be a sweet deal for Furtick (highly reduced price at which the trust bought the 19 acres for the Furticks' personal residence), but I did come across this interesting information regarding the church:

Elevation, one of the country’s fastest-growing evangelical congregations, plans to build a $20 million facility in Ballantyne to house its administrative staff, along with a 1,500-seat sanctuary.

Elevation also is considering two sites in Huntersville for a campus there. In all, the projects will cost more than $30 million.

This month, Elevation hopes its new “Banner Years” campaign will raise the up-front money needed so the church can pay cash for the sites – $3.5 million for 20 acres off U.S. 521 in Ballantyne, and another $2.5 million for the Huntersville tract of its choice.

Deb, if you do a BFF page, don’t forget James Mac and Mark Driscoll, Craig Groeschel and the entire seeker driven gang, Robert Morris’ traveling sideshow of tithing guilt to the big boys’ club of megalomaniacs, Andy Stanley and Bill Hybels Infomercials on how to make consumer-oriented huge churches providing a better experience than Disney….oof. “The hip bone’s connected to the…leg bone….”

I’m writing a new manual, tentatively titled Getting In on the ‘Christian’ Backscratching: How to Insinuate Yourself Into the Circle of Celebrity Megapastors To Hawk Your Products and Become Wealthy – Gospel Be Damned”

I’m writing a new manual, tentatively titled Getting In on the ‘Christian’ Backscratching: How to Insinuate Yourself Into the Circle of Celebrity Megapastors To Hawk Your Products and Become Wealthy – Gospel Be Damned”

And here are some starter products to hawk:

You can make it.
As in, trust God to make it happen, more or less, some way or the other.
You can make it.
As in, if you have an idea plunge ahead pretty much regardless.
You can make it.
As in God wants you healthy and wealthy and wise so go for whichever you want, just leave out the negative stuff.
You can make it.
As in God is happy with you as you are, no need to repent of anything except maybe actual truth-seeking behavior.
Because it is all about you and you can make it.

Furtick looks like a smart kid who seems to be saying that he grew up in a troubled home in Monck’s Corner, SC and who figured out how to grab a chunk of the American dream for himself by selling religion. And, of course, his big house and cocky attitude and altered gospel fit the picture. It is sad to see all those people who will pay cash for a ticket on the prosperity gospel lottery.

I do not agree with the lordship salvation theology that permeates most of Francis Chan’s books but I have to say that I respect Mr. Chan for intentionally adopting a very modest lifestyle. The Gospel Coalition is also tainted, in my opinion, by the incessant book reviews, promotions, seminars(for pay, of course) and other Christian merchandising. I’ve also noticed that it has been a while since GC has promoted anything related to Francis Chan. It appears that Furtick et al. are coalescing into a similar consortium of for-profit self-promoters.

I have just bought the Greater book for about £5.00 on Kindle – the list price was about £28.00 – but the £5.00 was a bit more realistic. The style is readable and engaging and he is an interesting character.

In essence, however, the book is somewhat confusing beyond the basic ideas – he seems to be saying that Christians can hope for better(Greater) than a mediocre life/ job, but then retracts this by saying that of course mediocre is a good thing. Early on the book he mentions working in a pet cemetery and dreaming of being a great preacher. I am not sure what would have happened if God had called him to be a pet cemetery worker.

His use of scripture is somewhat superficial and on occasions he is using it to launch his own ideas rather than thinking deeply about the meaning. On other occasions it is fine.

There is some insight into his personality, including his sense of insecurity, which might explain in part the hate video. He has the notion of an internal battle against his own self-directed critical thoughts, with life being an endless war in which positive thoughts have to win out. Presumably his critics align themselves with his own internal critical thoughts and they are the ‘haters’ he has to do battle with in an eternal struggle. The video is a way of doing battle.

Overall it is difficult to read the book, which is meant to focus on doing greater things for God, when you know he is saying that he made a lot of money out of his writing, enough to buy a great big house.

Steven Furtick has a choice to make – just as in the book he says he burnt his precious CDs because they got in the way of him developing as a Christian, he could and should do something about his acquisitiveness. If not, he will be making a huge mistake. I wonder if he knows this deep down – or whether he is too far gone…. which would be a tragedy in my view.

So, Elevation is “a generous church: It gave away $2.5 million last year, including $120,000 to Samaritan’s Purse, $45,000 to A Child’s Place and $40,000 each to the Matthews Free Medical Clinic and Charlotte Family Housing.”

Let me tell you how this works: The church has a special giving campaign. “Please give to this worthy cause. Put “X” in the memo line of your check, and the church will send a combined donation to the worthy cause.” The donors get to count this as a charitable donation since it’s to the church, but the church ALSO counts this as its “generous donation to many worthy causes.”

There is an above-board way to do this. For example, our church supports an orphanage in Africa, and it is simpler to do this as one transfer to their bank. But that money is not listed as income to the church in our accounting.

Since Elevation is not transparent with their finances, their members simply do not know how the numbers add up. But I would guess that it benefits Furtick to lump all the congregants’ giving together as “tithes and offerings” (or however they label it) so that he can justify a bigger compensation package.

Have not read and will not read anything from this crowd. From the comments above of people who have done, and in the excerpt from Lysa herself, it seems like the whole message is simply another facet of a “health and wealth” sort of “gospel”. No Good News there.

Late in 1999, the District Superintendent – someone who is supposed to be able to offer good counsel to churches – visited my Evangelical Free Church. I was already becoming uncomfortable there for theological reasons. He said something that made me do a double-take; I was so shocked that I can’t even remember what exactly it was. But I asked him if he was saying that if one is a Christian and lives a moral life, nothing bad would ever happen to such a person. He looked me straight in the eye and said, “Yes.” That was the straw that broke this particular camel’s back. There was no place for struggle, no meaning for suffering, including that of the people in that room whom I knew had suffered and struggled. I was out of there 4 months later.

After I left, the pastor called to make sure I was in church somewhere; that was his only question. There was no concern about me and no effort made to understand why I left. What made it worse was that I had stayed in that church for some time after I felt released by God to leave, for the sake of relationship with the people there. It’s a larger church in our town, and I was there for 10 years – and fewer people than I can count on the fingers of both hands have remained in relationship with me since then.

@Deb
Do you really think that Wal-Mart would be as big as it is with only one or two stores? Wonder how many churches 50 million would build in Africa? But there would be no return on that investment except souls. And we all know that’s enough!

Are you afraid I am going to be the pied piper and lead all your readers to Catholicism, so you have to censor me?

If you carefully read this blog, you will see that your two blog queens have no problem with Catholicism. We have featured two testimonies by folks who left Protestantism and became Catholic. I admire Catholics and their Pope. I have no problem with people converting to Catholicism.

Mark wrote:
Are you afraid I am going to be the pied piper and lead all your readers to Catholicism, so you have to censor me?
If you carefully read this blog, you will see that your two blog queens have no problem with Catholicism. We have featured two testimonies by folks who left Protestantism and became Catholic. I admire Catholics and their Pope. I have no problem with people converting to Catholicism.
You are moderated due to previous situation and you know it.

Good reply….I am one Protestant who believes there will be a bunch of shocked Protestants when they get to heaven only to discover they’re outnumbered by Catholics….

Thank you for this. There are many genuine Christ followers who are recognizing these things. My husband and I are grateful for being able to research on the internet and find information such as this confirming what we already prayerfully see…. not only with Elevation Church and Lysa Terkurst….but in many other American churches. Pastors, who begin as genuine in their pursuit of Christ, are falling off as they strive to acheive a false mega church ideal. The flock is wounded and anyone who disagrees with the money and numbers pursuit is labeled as against the church… and sometimes as against the gospel. We must continue to pray for those caught up in these false teachings. Thank you, again, for sharing.

No I don’t know anything of the sort. You took offense to my Catholic views 6 months ago and you know it. That’s why I am moderated. Others who responded to me were virulently anti-Catholic in their responses but had no such ban nor currently have any moderation.

I’m not familiar with your previous posts, so when you said that you go to the world’s largest mega church I was going to ask which one that is. Are you calling the catholic church a mega church? And if so I’m confused as to how that is “food for thought” that is relevant to the issue in this series if posts.

I attend the largest megachurch in the world which has multiple campuses in almost every city. The campus pastor makes less than $40,000 per year (many aren’t even paid) and they don’t teach tithing as mandatory for Christians.

I loved this comment. I shall quote you one of these days! Best comment of the morning.

Steven Furtick has a choice to make – just as in the book he says he burnt his precious CDs because they got in the way of him developing as a Christian, he could and should do something about his acquisitiveness. If not, he will be making a huge mistake. I wonder if he knows this deep down – or whether he is too far gone…. which would be a tragedy in my view.

Good thoughts, I like the way you ended your comment with the above. I've got a question or two: Naturally the decision to build such a big house was not Steven's alone. So often the wives of these men end up escaping the spotlight, but Holly Furtick is also culpable and worthy of censure. How much of their extravagance stems from her wishes and wants? Do you know? Does anyone? Who are the wives of these men who apparently don't step in and put a stop to this nonsense but instead remain silent in the background, all the while consuming the fruits of an indulgent lifestyle. Don't they ever challenge or question it? That, too, is a tragedy.

I support Chan, Platt and others who live a modest lifestyle although I would disagree with some of their theology.

Not to mention that they still associate with the likes of Driscoll and do not call him out.
No wonder that the bus continues to run over the little folks, when the biggies just remain silent so their books will still be on the table at the mega-conventions.

just a little acknowledgement would be nice (assuming they’re as concerned/bugged as the common man and woman is). doesn’t have to be this booming-furrowed brow-pointing-of-the-finger “YOU, SIR, are blah blah blah blah”.

Frances Chan and other seemingly reasonable Christian spokespeople, you really could just publicly say,

“It is not good or right for Mark Driscoll to disparage men who don’t exhibit his narrow version of masculinity”.

“It is wrong for Mark Driscoll to ever imply that women are like an appliance to plug in to at least once a day .”

Frances Chan, you really could. If you have conviction about anything remotely similar to what I just described, you really could make a public statement. If your relational bridge burns, that would say more about the person on the other side than you.

Dee, flattery will get you everywhere… But I’d appreciate not being treated like an adult here, not a child. 🙂

Yes, caleb, I am referring to Catholics. My local parish, one of MANY in the area, has 12,000 parishioners, that’s why it is a “megachurch”, let alone the 1 billion worldwide which have nearly the exact same service each week.

Why is it relevant? Well, it seems that so many evangelical are fed up with preachers like Furtick and Young and their buddies who preach mandatory tithing and live like celebrities. While there are certainly some exceptions, for the most part you will not find priests living high on the hog. If they do, they get reprimanded (like the German Bishop who was recently suspended) “No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.”

People aren’t stupid. We can smell materialism a mile away, but too many Christians are too afraid to say that their preacher is caught up in it.

@ JeffT: Would you like to become one of a small group of investors in the TWW Backscratch club? TWW is gonna get into this while the getting is good.

Count me in! I’ll get you into my circle of backscatchers and you get me into yours (we call our circle the Gospel Grifters BTW). We can double our income, luxury travel, and the square footage or our homes.

Just read the old thread on Francis Chan leaving for Asia. There’s an interesting quote thereon from a great man of God who was concerned about what Chan did. I will reproduce it here for convenience:

“It seems to me that if the primary view of sanctification comes through simplicity, poverty, suffering, if you don’t get those things it’s almost like when God blesses, it’s hard to be sanctified because you don’t know what to do with it,” Fiscal said. “And so you almost have to get rid of that which is complicated, make life hurt a little more, go to a third world country, and/or adopt poverty and give it all away because you’re only allowing God to sanctify in the preconceived ways. What if God wants to sanctify you through not poverty but generosity, not suffering but blessing, and what if it’s not through simplicity but complexity?”

That bit seemed odd to me as well. Sounded more like someone was trying to justify their own actions by calling into question the other person's motives. And, yes, how hard is it for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God? Maybe we are witnessing the manly men all taking the hard road? I could see it being twisted as such, unfortunately. 🙁

Baloney! I am not offended by Catholic views. I never have been. I attended Catholic prayer meetings with Father John Bertolucci.I have gone to mass more times than I can count. I have met with Jesuit priests who helped me to accurately present Catolic viewpoints. I am most impressed by the Pope amd by many of the previous Popes whose writings on the sanctity of life are most impressive. I have posted stories by converts to Catholicism.

While there are certainly some exceptions, for the most part you will not find priests living high on the hog.

That’s because the lowly priests are expected to live like paupers, while their masters live in gold-encusted palaces like kings. Furtick’s 16,000 square foot mansion is a meager hovel compared to the haunts of the bishops, cardinals, and popes, who are so brazen as to allow the masses to genuflect before them and offer their gold-ringed mortal hand for kissing.

Or a daycare
Hester wrote:
@ Caleb:
There is a church called “Champions Center”? Really?
It sounds more like a stadium / arena to me.

I don’t know where they got the name, but I did witness the stadium/arena going up. My unfounded opinion at the time is that the leaders envied Life Center, across town. Life Center had burned to the ground a couple years before, and rebuilt much bigger and better than before. The future Champions Centre took on a boat-load of,debt to build their dome, which eventually led to some compromises and some investors being bamboozled.
One possibility on the name– they had a World-Championship caliber Softball team for a long time (30-40 years). Most Champions must Defeat Many Others to become Champion. One year I was on my church’s team, and we had to play them. We were defeated before the first pitch was thrown. They may have just as well been the Mariners. Our pitcher was pushing sixty and our catcher was 14! I’m still humiliated.

Mark wrote:
While there are certainly some exceptions, for the most part you will not find priests living high on the hog.
That’s because the lowly priests are expected to live like paupers, while their masters live in gold-encusted palaces like kings. Furtick’s 16,000 square foot mansion is a meager hovel compared to the haunts of the bishops, cardinals, and popes, who are so brazen as to allow the masses to genuflect before them and offer their gold-ringed mortal hand for kissing.

Bishops make less than $50k. You can either kiss the ring of a Bishop or the foot of Furtick.

Historically, yes. But to give credit where it’s due (probably an unfortunate metaphor in this context), Pope Francis has made a decent start on that point.

And there have been some others that got away, too. It was Helder Camara, Romish Megabishop of Olinda and Recife, who made one of my top three favourite quotes: When I give food to the poor, I’m called a saint. When I ask why they are poor, I’m called a communist. Camara made a long-standing and vocal stand against violence and repression, and on behalf of the urban poor in particular – a lifestyle that, even for a prominent representative of Rome, was not entirely without risk under a military dictatorship. I’m not sure Camara himself was all that rich either.

Another favourite, though too long to be a “quote” in that sense, is attributed (and, I think, reliably) to Tony Campolo in a typical sermon to a large and respectably “sound” Christian audience:

I want to talk to you tonight about three tragedies. The first tragedy is that last night, while you slept, 30000 children around the world died from starvation or poverty-related disease. The second tragedy is that most of you don’t give a sh*t. And the third tragedy is that you’re more outraged at the word sh*t than at 30000 needless child deaths.

OK, no doubt the lack of governance, oversight, accountability and transparency, combined with the lavish spending, all send up red flags.

But even absent all that, doesn’t the video just creep people out in terms of what I’ve come to call gut-level discernment? This guy just comes across as creepy and arrogant. I’d have a hard time following and defending him just on that basis alone. When you add in all the other stuff, I don’t understand why he still has a following. Facepalm indeed.

That’s because the lowly priests are expected to live like paupers, while their masters live in gold-encusted palaces like kings. Furtick’s 16,000 square foot mansion is a meager hovel compared to the haunts of the bishops, cardinals, and popes, who are so brazen as to allow the masses to genuflect before them and offer their gold-ringed mortal hand for kissing.

Another “NO POPERY!” salvo in the Reformation Wars, 365 years after the Treaty of Westphalia allegedly ended them.

“It is not good or right for Mark Driscoll to disparage men who don’t exhibit his narrow version of masculinity”.
“It is wrong for Mark Driscoll to ever imply that women are like an appliance to plug in to at least once a day .”

K.D. wrote:
Good reply….I am one Protestant who believes there will be a bunch of shocked Protestants when they get to heaven only to discover they’re outnumbered by Catholics….
Well, we’ve got a 1500-year head start….

You’re not familiar with the Landmark Baptists are you….talk about revisionist historians….

Steven Furtick and Lysa Terkeurst have a mutual admiration society between them. It wasn’t always so.

Remember Lysa’s been in the Charlotte area for approx. 20 years and Elevation only started in 2005/6. Lysa’s attended Calvary (Charlotteans call it the Pink Palace or Mary Kay Cathedral) due to its hue in the sunlight. She also attended Southbrook Community Church until at least 2009 (http://lysaterkeurst.com/2009/09/three-cities/). It makes me truly wonder how many of the unchurched the mega-churches are attracting because I see a lot of shuffling around of Christians from church to church in this area.

Lysa also puts in a word for treating your pastor right via these posts since he has such a tough job:

I took exception to feting pastors with gift cards and the like and commented as such. The comment never saw the light of day on her blog. There are so many deserving folks working 2 and 3 jobs with children who are much more in need of kindness than pastors in the mega-church industry such as Furtick.

Elevation Church has video recording studios which Lysa makes ample use of for Proverbs 31. A former Charlotte newscaster and now Elevation Church employee, Tonia Bendickson, emcees for Lysa’s video programming.

I am sending you an email. I would like to talk with you. If you do not get the email, could you please email dee@thewartburgwatch.com? I also know that there are other who would like to speak with you. Look forward to hearing from you.

Lysa also puts in a word for treating your pastor right via these posts since he has such a tough job…

This is how the adulation of the pastor starts and eventually mutates into the cult of personality.

The term “clergy” finds its roots in the Greek word kleros. It means “a lot or an inheritance.” The word is used in 1 Peter 5:3, where Peter instructs the elders against being “lords over God’s heritage [kleros]” (KJV).

Significantly, kleros is never used to refer to church “leaders.” It refers to God’s people—for they are His heritage. According to the New Testament, then, all Christians are “clergy” (kleros) and all are “laity” (laos). We are the Lord’s heritage and the Lord’s people.

To frame it differently, the New Testament doesn’t dispose of clergy. It makes all believers clergy.

Therefore, the clergy/laity dichotomy is a postbiblical concept that’s devoid of any scriptural warrant. It’s also a bothersome menace to what God has called the church to be—a functioning body.

There’s no hint of the clergy/laity or minister/layman schema in the history, teaching, or vocabulary of the New Testament. This schema is a religious artifact that stems from the postapostolic disjunction of secular and spiritual.

In the secular/spiritual dichotomy, faith, prayer, and ministry are deemed the exclusive properties of an inner, sacrosanct world. A world that is detached from the whole fabric of life. But this disjunction is completely foreign to the New Testament ethos where all things are to bring glory to God—even the stuff of everyday life (1 Cor. 10:31).

“The term ‘laity’ is one of the worst in the vocabulary of religion and ought to be banished from the Christian conversation.”

~ Karl Barth

“The clergy-laity tradition has done more to undermine New Testament authority than most heresies.”

~ James D.G. Dunn

“The clergy-laity dichotomy is a direct carry-over from pre-Reformation Roman Catholicism and a throwback to the Old Testament priesthood. It is one of the principal obstacles to the church effectively being God’s agent of the kingdom today because it creates a false idea that only ‘holy men,’ namely, ordained ministers, are really qualified and responsible for leadership and significant ministry. In the New Testament there are functional distinctions between various kinds of ministries but no hierarchical division between clergy and laity.”

Bottom line is these faux pastors have what I’ve come to call a “god complex.” They really are deceived that they are appointed by God, and therefore can operate on their own special terms, even above and outside of the law, however they deem fit for their interests. One former youth leader at Prestonwood told me that Jack Graham, when confronted about his failure (again, several years after Langworthy) to report child sexual abuse allegations by another youth minister on his staff, said that he has to sacrifice the few for the good of the many. Jack Graham…A Tale of Two Jackshttp://watchkeep.blogspot.com/2013/05/a-tale-of-two-jacks.html

This is worse than slavery. These people on their big southern plantations with their servants working their fields for free, who then pay the plantation owner for the work they do ‘serving’ who in turn tells them they’re being elevated because they give him money. Oh, and he’s so generous!

@ Evie:
They are free to leave. Unfortunately, they have bought into Furtick’s theology. I wonder, as they view the “church” and all the really cool, hipster stuff that they have, do they ever think about Jesus and the apostles and how this all jives with that?

@ dee:
Kinda hard to leave. My Lard, what will become of them if one does and has no place to tithe? They’ll be cursed I tell you, cursed!!

Superstition worked to control the minds of the slaves, too. It’s a virtual form of slavery. Servants working without pay, for the benefit of the plantation owner, but in this case the servants pay the master.

There really needs to be a war or something to free the church of these people and wake up people to what it truly means to be free in Christ.

Significantly, kleros is never used to refer to church “leaders.” It refers to God’s people—for they are His heritage. According to the New Testament, then, all Christians are “clergy” (kleros) and all are “laity” (laos). We are the Lord’s heritage and the Lord’s people.
To frame it differently, the New Testament doesn’t dispose of clergy. It makes all believers clergy.

This is bang on! To add to this, the word “liturgy” literally means “work of the people”, meaning all are to be involved. A church service is to be a participatory event, not musical entertainment wrapped around a lecture.

By making this comparison, you minimize the atrocity of slavery. Slaves didn’t have a choice. They were forced with threat of death to obey. Elevators (as they call themselves) do have a choice. Their minds are held captive by strands of truth mixed with lies. But they will not be killed if they walk away. They will still have life in Christ.

Anon wrote:
Significantly, kleros is never used to refer to church “leaders.” It refers to God’s people—for they are His heritage. According to the New Testament, then, all Christians are “clergy” (kleros) and all are “laity” (laos). We are the Lord’s heritage and the Lord’s people.
To frame it differently, the New Testament doesn’t dispose of clergy. It makes all believers clergy.
This is bang on! To add to this, the word “liturgy” literally means “work of the people”, meaning all are to be involved. A church service is to be a participatory event, not musical entertainment wrapped around a lecture.

Absolutely. I was in SWBTS when there was a move away from the long standing teaching of the “Priesthood of the Believer.” There were many in the front of the classroom and in the desks who really think that the average person is neither smart enough or “called” to do God’s work.

@ Deb:
We could incorporate it in any state, get 501(c)(3) status (IRS fees + expenses are about $1000, attorney time could be donated with a sweet request from the blog queens) Then we file for DBA in any other state we want to be in. Really easy. Then sales taxes, etc., typically do not apply to purchases or sales!!!!! Get a housing allowance tax exempt for a residence for each of the staff members that are “ordained” or otherwise recognized as ministers (could be almost all of your regulars). Etc., etc., We could offer that anyone documenting giving 20% of income for two years can be ordained and remain an elder, receiving pay of 1/2 of their giving, and getting a housing exemption, etc. (And believe it, it is being done in some places.)

@ Nick Bulbeck:
Campolo is one of my favorite preachers. Tells it like it is, not afraid to offend, and is committed to serving God. I have heard him preach the “It’s Friday, but Sunday’s Coming” sermon. Almost as good as and sounding a lot like the best black preacher I have heard.

@ Anon:
Amen. Which is why Baptists had the “priest-hood of each and every believer” as a foundational ecclesiological concept, that also underlies some other theology for historical Baptists. Pre Conservative Resurgence. Now most SBC churches are pastor controlled, elder controlled (sometimes calling the elders deadons), and not membership controlled in an open and democratic way.

dee wrote:
I attended Catholic prayer meetings with Father John Bertolucci.I have gone to mass more times than I can count.
I used to really dig Father Guido Sarducci’s appearances on old SNL back in the day.

Slaves didn’t have a choice. They were forced with threat of death to obey. Elevators (as they call themselves) do have a choice. Their minds are held captive by strands of truth mixed with lies. But they will not be killed if they walk away. They will still have life in Christ.

Unless Furtick starts preaching “No Salvation outside Elevation Church” and how God withdraws the Holy Spirit and his “mantle of protection” from Apostates and Backsliders, turning them over to the Devil. Others have preached that to keep their sheeple from running away.

Unless Furtick starts preaching “No Salvation outside Elevation Church” and how God withdraws the Holy Spirit and his “mantle of protection” from Apostates and Backsliders, turning them over to the Devil. Others have preached that to keep their sheeple from running away

His is the same message only with a positive spin. Stay here and give and God will bless you. So their “protection” for the future is also to stay there and make sure Furtick is doing well. It feeds their needs to see his success. So in that system, if things do not improve for you then you were not positive enough. You did not believe it enough. Furtick did and deserves what he got.

Same thing only with smiley faces. Back to it being your fault while the charlatan laughs all the way to the bank.

Mark wrote:
Others who responded to me were virulently anti-Catholic in their responses
You dang skippy I was. I’m fine with Roman Catholics, unless and until they are anti- Protestant, as you were being in your posts.

I was never “anti-protestant.” I explained doctrinal positions of the Catholic Church and you didn’t like it. You took offense. The powers that be found any Catholic doctrinal stance as attacking Protestantism.

TW I’m surprised they didn’t tell you if you weren’t happy there, you could always find a different Facebook page to like, in the same way they responded to critics within the church. They only have ears to hear what they want to hear!

And have you noticed how they always say “Savior”? It’s like their code. If you end up using it exclusively to refer to that imaginary being they have fashioned in their minds, then you’re an insider. And SGM loves to distinguish between who’s inside and who’s outside. It’s one of their “things.” That’s because it’s a club.

As a participant of Elevation Church, I resent your website. Hate is not a Christian value. Bitterness is not a Christian value. When the favor of God is on man, our pastor teaches us that it is contagious. Pastor Steven says that favor is caught not taught. So when He is walking in Gods favor, that favor is transferred to us. He has taught us hundreds of times and I believe it with all my heart…”Favor ain’t Fair”! So little sister, stop this madness, I hate the way you hate.

And have you noticed how they always say “Savior”? It’s like their code. If you end up using it exclusively to refer to that imaginary being they have fashioned in their minds, then you’re an insider. And SGM loves to distinguish between who’s inside and who’s outside. It’s one of their “things.” That’s because it’s a club.

In local Seventies-era Christianese, it was “The LOORD”, often pronounced with two “O”s. Recognition codes/shibboleths change over the years.

@ Deb:
We could incorporate it in any state, get 501(c)(3) status (IRS fees + expenses are about $1000, attorney time could be donated with a sweet request from the blog queens) Then we file for DBA in any other state we want to be in. Really easy. Then sales taxes, etc., typically do not apply to purchases or sales!!!!! Get a housing allowance tax exempt for a residence for each of the staff members that are “ordained” or otherwise recognized as ministers (could be almost all of your regulars). Etc., etc., We could offer that anyone documenting giving 20% of income for two years can be ordained and remain an elder, receiving pay of 1/2 of their giving, and getting a housing exemption, etc. (And believe it, it is being done in some places.)

Just because no one is being burned at the stake or beheaded does not make the adulation of a man as THE vicar of Christ any less repugnant.

And what has happened to so many splinter/house churches with Priesthood of the Believer? They grow into denominations or pseudo-denominations that end up needing some form of organization or a charismatic founder ends up an adulated cult leader in all but name(1). Or they blow apart in schism/conflict between two factions formed around adulated pseudo-cult leaders(2).

(1) See Mars Hill, Calvary Chapel, SGM, etc… Whose Founding Pastors/Head Apostles wield more power than a Pope over their churches. I do know they speak Dogma Ex Cathedra without any of the limitations/restrictions of actual Ex Cathedra pronouncements.

(2) A Wiccan once told me the reason covens are limited to 13 members is more than that and they tend to become unstable; factions form, and the coven usually breaks up in a Power Struggle between the two factions and their leaders. Thirteen is about the troop-size limit of a family, the maximum number of people the average human can actually know well.

No, you went far beyond saying you found comfort in the RC after leaving a Protestant faith to attacking Protestant doctrines, churches, etc. You also behaved as though you were on the blog to convert people to RCism, by bringing up a lot of standard (and usually anti Protestant) apologetics.

@ Deb: Canada is not so generous with tax-breaks and housing allowances (our govn't likes our money too much). I mean does the government really allow that Ed jr. guy to claim $250,000 on housing allowance for a parsonage? There are no limits? The government really needs to smarten up, aren't they in massive debt? Most tax exemptions in Canada for clergy come with a ceiling of 30,000 or so. After that, nothing is exempt – it is based on Catholic priest's "vow of poverty" pay. Go over that, and they will tax you like anyone else (spouse and kids arem't considered because they are considered excess to a poverty lifestyle).

How embarrassing for your church. Do you know how ridiculous you sound, repeating the “hate” word. It recalls that ill-advised Hey Haters video which has become the brunt of all too many jokes.

Secondly, I have nothing to be bitter about. This is another throw away Christianese term which is used by people who cannot logically argue their point of view. It is another example of substandard teaching.Sharon wrote:

So when He is walking in Gods favor, that favor is transferred to us. He has taught us hundreds of times and I believe it with all my heart

It is interesting that you capitalize the word “He” when referring to Furtick. Did you know that capitalizing “he” is usually reserve for our God, not a preacher?

I also regret to inform you that the favor (defined as tons of money and a huge mansion) will not find their way to you since your follow Furtick. This is an example of a heresy known as the prosperity gospel. Sadly, he will keep getting richer and the majority of you will not, especially if you keep buying his books and tithing to his church.

God’s favor is not indicated by riches or lots of people. Those who He favored so greatly, the apostles, dies martyrs death, most without money or a home. They were tortured, sent to the Coliseum o used as torches in Nero’s garden parties. The favor of God is not a mansion, cars ,etc. I am so sorry that you see the Bible this way. Please read some books on great missionaries and contrast this with what you see at Elevation.

@ caleb w:
Dee, flattery will get you everywhere… But I’d appreciate not being treated like an adult here, not a child.
Yes, caleb, I am referring to Catholics. My local parish, one of MANY in the area, has 12,000 parishioners, that’s why it is a “megachurch”, let alone the 1 billion worldwide which have nearly the exact same service each week.
Why is it relevant? Well, it seems that so many evangelical are fed up with preachers like Furtick and Young and their buddies who preach mandatory tithing and live like celebrities. While there are certainly some exceptions, for the most part you will not find priests living high on the hog. If they do, they get reprimanded (like the German Bishop who was recently suspended) “No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.”
People aren’t stupid. We can smell materialism a mile away, but too many Christians are too afraid to say that their preacher is caught up in it.
IMO, what you are witnessing with Furtick is not what God intended.

As a baptist, I’m 100 percent in agreement with every word of this catholic brother’s statement.

Lysa was part of Southbrook Church until sometime in 2009. She preached every now and then and was a huge advocate of its pastor, Rob Singleton. (ed. note: rest of comment on hold until information is checked out.)

Anne

I tired to send you an email. Is there any possible way that you can corroborate the rest of your comment? I am trying to protect you and us. TWW is being watched. If you can redo your comment or repost it with some links, we would love to post it since the information is valuable. Please contact me as dee@thewartburgwatch.com

Link for Sharon.
The pastor of the mega church I was apart of back in the 90s in mentioned by name here. The pastor writing this post is pointing out what my former pastor warned other ministers to avoid.

Furtick has succumbed to at least two of these temptations. Who knows if he is guilty of the third.

When the favor of God is on man, our pastor teaches us that it is contagious. Pastor Steven says that favor is caught not taught. So when He is walking in Gods favor, that favor is transferred to us. He has taught us hundreds of times and I believe it with all my heart

Sharon, does he provide scriptural support for this contagious transference of “favor” and does he explain just what that “favor” is?

I do not see how the option is Steven Furtick style extravagance or the Roman Catholic Church. It also feels very misguided to call the Catholic Church a megachurch or even to welcome that label. I do not have a problem with Catholicism per se, but it is historically laughable for you to hold up the Catholic Church as a consistent example of humble living, Pope Francis notwithstanding.

Although Furtick probably see himself as a pope figure, it feels like strange rhetoric to make this claim, Mark. Sorry.

As a participant of Elevation Church, I resent your website. Hate is not a Christian value. Bitterness is not a Christian value. When the favor of God is on man, our pastor teaches us that it is contagious. Pastor Steven says that favor is caught not taught. So when He is walking in Gods favor, that favor is transferred to us. He has taught us hundreds of times and I believe it with all my heart…”Favor ain’t Fair”! So little sister, stop this madness, I hate the way you hate.

And here I thought The Bible teaches that God does not have favorites.

Sharon might want to check out Romans 2 (pay attention to verse 11) then over to Acts 10 and pay attention to verse 34. And to round it off, she might want to check out James 2. Seems she does not understand how God’s economy operates. But then, I doubt there is much deep study at Elevation. Just lots of platitudes.

@ Headless Unicorn Guy:
This is exactly what my former pastor taught/teaches. The fear of being deceived and going to hell if you leave is huge. And these guys are master manipulaters…they spot the fears of those around them and zero in on it…

It is easy to say ‘they’re free to leave’ while standing on the outside. But the mental and spiritual chains that are forged in places like this are invisible from the outside but iron solid on those who are bound. Paul likened this state of affairs to slavery more than once for a reason. I have no intention of belittle the horrors of physical slavery. But unless you have escaped this kind of mental/spiritual slavewry, it is probably hard to understand.

But unless you have escaped this kind of mental/spiritual slavewry, it is probably hard to understand.

I have no problem understanding. Growing up, my brother was a Master Manipulator and Mom, Dad, and I were his Dancing Monkeys. Then my first sojourn in the body of Christ was in one of those Shepherding groups of the Seventies (you know, when All The End Time Prophecies were being fulfilled, at least according to Hal Lindsay — put on your Shepherd’s shackles or Be Left Behind). Bad Craziness.

The behaviors of Steven Furtick as well as other mega-church pastors have caught my attention in the last several years.

All the talk about multiple worship experiences, E-groups to “plug into”, boot camps, t-shirts to wear, books to buy, volunteer events to show up for, sermons to listen to over and over again, events such as Code Orange Underground to attend…well, you get the idea. The list is endless. Then, you’re encouraged to blog, facebook and tweet about it.

It all sounds exhausting to me.

There was a time, a time I experienced not so very long ago, when one went to church for maybe three hours on Sunday. That’s counting Sunday school and church. You were on your way home by noon for lunch and a relaxing afternoon. Then, you spent the next six days doing your best to show the people you came into contact with in school, work, even the grocery store, how you really were a Christian. Without words, but by actions. At least that’s what I observed. Sure, it might come up in rare cases, but the norm seemed to be how one conducted themselves in their personal interactions.

How does one have the energy (or the money!) to devote to what passes for Christianity in the mega-church scene?

I thought you might. I was admirably groomed to be prey to my former pastor by being raised by a malignant nacissist who was/is deeply religiiuos and held the keys to orthodoxy (hers) in the home. And she was a fan of Hal Lindsey, et al. I grew up with that stuff and having the @&%$#! scared out me with Jack Chick tracts that were always around the house. And later, The Elijah List and NAR, Word of Faith, etc, eyc. Yeah – the chains are mostly gone, but bits and pieces still pop up and bite my backside….

@ Scott Shaver:
I do not see how the option is Steven Furtick style extravagance or the Roman Catholic Church. It also feels very misguided to call the Catholic Church a megachurch or even to welcome that label. I do not have a problem with Catholicism per se, but it is historically laughable for you to hold up the Catholic Church as a consistent example of humble living, Pope Francis notwithstanding.
Although Furtick probably see himself as a pope figure, it feels like strange rhetoric to make this claim, Mark. Sorry.

I don’t see how you were offered the option of one or the other by my comments.

You can learn things from watching “Pawn Stars” and “Counting Cars” on History channel. 🙂

I used to be crazy about cars and motorcycles when I was a kid, but the older I got, my Mom kept trying to get me to more a girly girl, so I sort of dropped my childhood interest in cars/motorcycles, or suppressed it.

More reading of Steven Furtick’s book ‘Greater’ which I admit is very good in parts.

But I had forgotten he had written in it that he is ‘a Trust Fund baby’ and ‘God has a trust fund with my name on it’ and ‘he knows the exact time every resources needs to be released to me.’

yeah… right…

Putting that together with his huge house funded by the Jumper Drive Revocable Trust, which presumably has certain tax advantages, I can see what he means.

This is the problem with Steven Furtick’s credibility. He could be talking about spiritual blessings, but you just wonder whether he is thinking about his great big house. From now on this will always be the case unless he has a change of heart.

“Expose these proverbial religious snake oil salesmen for what they are, and two or three will take their place, it’s simply the nature of the 501c religion tithe business.” ~ Sopy

They are a worthless generation of religious men?

Who are not to be regarded, hearkened to,

Nor to be pleased,

Does it matter what they say of Christ, and His doctrine; they are blind leaders of the blind?

Who think of themselves, very wise and knowing, yet they are indeed blind?

The unfortunate folk that hearken to them, giving heed to their words, and are followers of them, are indeed blind as well?

That there should be “blind teachers” at the time when God should have his husbandman out in the fields bringing in the harvest…

…extravagance, improvidence, lavishness, prodigality, squandering?

huh?

Could b.

Was not something like this predicted, in Isaiah 42:19 where all such leaders and teachers are blind, who, notwithstanding their natural abilities, and acquired parts, are in some fantasy state of what could be calked a type of unregeneracy; and have nothing more than what they have from nature, or have attained to at school; and as apparently all such are, who instead of leading folk to Christ, lead them to mere religious morality, and to a dependency upon these blind guides for their light?

Shreeeeeeeeetch!

Where’s the ditch?

Where is the ignorance and error?

…or possibly worse?

what else can be expected?

(sadface)

Hogwash! Pray the Lord of the harvest, that He should raise up true and Christ d-e-v-o-t-e-d laborers into the fields!

I used to be crazy about cars and motorcycles when I was a kid, but the older I got, my Mom kept trying to get me to more a girly girl, so I sort of dropped my childhood interest in cars/motorcycles, or suppressed it.

California Car Culture of the Sixties. The peak of the purely mechanical car. Heyday of the pony car, muscle car, gasser, funny car, and Can-Am. When power meant how many cubes you packed under the hood and the octane of your gas.

And she was a fan of Hal Lindsey, et al. I grew up with that stuff and having the @&%$#! scared out me with Jack Chick tracts that were always around the house. And later, The Elijah List and NAR, Word of Faith, etc, eyc. Yeah – the chains are mostly gone, but bits and pieces still pop up and bite my backside….

Well, in the Seventies Late Great Planet Earth was THE 67th Book of the Bible, superseding the other 66. Rapture Scare du jour, Christians For Nuclear War, and all that. (“It’s Prophesied! It’s Prophesied!”)

And Jack Chick always went hand-in-hand with Hal Lindsay; both are ways to “scare ’em into the Kingdom”. And both cause PTSD among their survivors.

And it takes years, sometimes decades, until you can function again. My immersion in the Gospel According to Hal Lindsay was in the Seventies and I didn’t stop having Rapture Scare panic attacks until 1988.

“A megachurch is a church having 2,000 or more in average weekend attendance.”

My ONE parish has 12,000, and it isn’t even the largest in the area. It’s huge and we don’t have rock bands or preachers wearing Mickey Mouse t-shirts. Oh, in a 2,000 year old history, I can definitely be with you when it comes to financial abuse in this Church, but men do not become priests to have a chance at riches, like in Protestant megachurches.

Protestant megachurches are FAMILY BUSINESSES. The pastor is a self-employed christian freelance professional. Celebrity pastors who publish books, who have media engagements, who hide their wealth in fake corporations and trusts = big bucks = big salaries = big unbiblical tithing extortion. It is a formula that is being duplicated at an alarming rate.

You mentioned Pope Francis. If Furtick was under his watch, he would be dragged by the ear to the Vatican and suspended.

Steven Furtick: “If You Know Jesus, …Elevation Church Is Not For You…”

Elevation Church is not a true New Testament “Church”, in the ‘biblical’ sense, as outlined in the New Testament Book of Acts, but a christian outreach ministry that requests that the un-saved give this 501c nonprofit corporation money citing the bible as the source of the request. Once the individual makes a profession of faith, they are strongly encouraged to attend religious services elsewhere in the community, as this is a 501c non-profit who’s stated purpose is to seek and save the lost. Once ‘saved’ this church is not for you, is the saying. This ministry is akin to the old tent ministries where a traveling evangelist would set up a tent for a season, and preach the message of salvation to all those of the community in attendance. Only Steven Furtick is acting as a “stay in the community” evangelist, electronic media notwithstanding . The long term results/effects of this 501c religious not-for-profit corporation, is yet to be determined.

If Lysa donates her hard earned money to Elevation in the form of tax deductible tithes,then Elevation provides Proverbs 31 with $55k,and Lysa receives a salary greater than $55k from Proverbs 31 wouldn’t this in theory be money laundering for the purpose of tax evasion. However this is most likely not the only means of revenue she is receiving from Elevation’s checkbook. Seeing that she owns a 6 seat twin engine Cessna that she leases for profit. Wonder how many flights Pastor SF has taken on Lysa Airways? As an added bonus to this story, a former associate pastor of Elevation,who I will only mention by his initials of WW, happens to be the pilot.