I'm in a discussion talking about how masturbation is a sin. This is something I tried to use:

Well, it comes from the first post which talked about the sin of adultery and whether that entailed the act of adultery or just thinking about it. Well, Our Lord seemed pretty clear about it stating that just committing adultery in your heart was the same thing. When you masturbate you are by definition thinking of something sexual and even if it's not about somebody else and you're just concentrating on the actual sensations then it is still a sin of impurity and a sin against chastity.

There are some fundamentalist Christian in there as well as non Christian baiters:

What does looking at women with the thought of adultery have anything to do with masturbation? If you have any biblical references about actual masturbation I'd like to see that. I try to keep myself pure and not do this to myself. I don't know if its harmful, I'm not convinced it is. Really what I really really really really want to know is WHY do you think its wrong?

If any of you have any ideas then I would be more than happy to have them. I'm trying to use the purity argument but it's not sinking in. For those of you who have facebook the discussion is here and if that doesn't work then I've put a pdf file together.

Lutherans tend to interpret the sin of Onan as being masturbation, while Catholics think it was contraception.

The difficulty is, Biblical Hebrew had no word for masturbation, and the topic was taboo, anyway (as it is in most cultures). There could be whole swathes of commandments relating to it that use euphemisms that we, not being ancient Jews, don't get.

As an example of the problem, if a character in a Japanese movie says, "Lilies were blooming," it's hardly obvious he means, "I think there was something lesbian going on." People a thousand years from now may think the Japanese just had some bizarre hangup about a particular flower.

__________________The vision of a haloed host
That weep around an empty throne;
And, aureoles dark and angels dead,
Man with his own life stands alone.

'I am,' he says his bankrupt creed:
'I am,' and is again a clod:
The sparrow starts, the grasses stir,
For he has said the name of God.

The Bible is pretty clear on what God's intention for sexuality is. Perhaps instead of trying to find what the Bible says about not masturbating (which I don't think there is much), find what the Bible says about what sexuality is intended to be (a total giving of oneself to his spouse that is open to life) and ask your friends how masturbation can be justified in the face of that.

__________________

"What earlier generations held as sacred, remains sacred and great for us too, and it cannot be all of a sudden entirely forbidden or even considered harmful."

The traditional Catholic doctrine that masturbation constitutes a grave moral disorder is often called into doubt or expressly denied today. It is said that psychology and sociology show that it is a normal phenomenon of sexual development, especially among the young. It is stated that there is real and serious fault only in the measure that the subject deliberately indulges in solitary pleasure closed in on self ("ipsation"), because in this case the act would indeed be radically opposed to the loving communion between persons of different sex which some hold is what is principally sought in the use of the sexual faculty.

This opinion is contradictory to the teaching and pastoral practice of the Catholic Church. Whatever the force of certain arguments of a biological and philosophical nature, which have sometimes been used by theologians, in fact both the Magisterium of the Church--in the course of a constant tradition-- and the moral sense of the faithful have declared without hesitation that masturbation is an intrinsically and seriously disordered act.[19] The main reason is that, whatever the motive for acting this way, the deliberate use of the sexual faculty outside normal conjugal relations essentially contradicts the finality of the faculty. For it lacks the sexual relationship called for by the moral order, namely the relationship which realizes "the full sense of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love."[20] All deliberate exercise of sexuality must be reserved to this regular relationship. Even if it cannot be proved that Scripture condemns this sin by name, the tradition of the Church has rightly understood it to be condemned in the New Testament when the latter speaks of "impurity," "unchasteness" and other vices contrary to chastity and continence.

Sociological surveys are able to show the frequency of this disorder according to the places, populations or circumstances studied. In this way facts are discovered, but facts do not constitute a criterion for judging the moral value of human acts.[21] The frequency of the phenomenon in question is certainly to be linked with man's innate weakness following original sin; but it is also to be linked with the loss of a sense of God, with the corruption of morals engendered by the commercialization of vice, with the unrestrained licentiousness of so many public entertainments and publications, as well as with the neglect of modesty, which is the guardian of chastity.

The Bible doesn't expressly tell us that abortion is a sin, but we can reasonably extrapolate that fact from the commandment "You shall not kill." Similarly, while the Bible doesn't use the word "masturbation," we can reasonable conclude the fact that masturbation is wrong because the sin of Onan (early withdrawal) was wrong (Genesis 38:9-10).

The Bible doesn't expressly tell us that abortion is a sin, but we can reasonably extrapolate that fact from the commandment "You shall not kill." Similarly, while the Bible doesn't use the word "masturbation," we can reasonable conclude the fact that masturbation is wrong because the sin of Onan (early withdrawal) was wrong (Genesis 38:9-10).

I don't think the Bible condemns polygamy either, does it? I think what francesco920 said was on the money.

Quote:

find what the Bible says about what sexuality is intended to be (a total giving of oneself to his spouse that is open to life)

__________________
Suicide, Abortion and Euthanasia
are matters of life and deathwww.life.org.nz
Send me a PM to discuss my website

I have heard a lot of attempts to defend immoral acts through some "loophole" perceived through intentional misinterpretation of Scripture, or by what "some priest", etc. once said.

I know someone who liberally enjoys his vices, in spite of the pain it causes his family (he prefers to deny that they suffer at all). His little carnalities are justified, he says, because a priest once said that "we should enjoy our lives". How convenient.

With the exception of those few who have completely destroyed their consciences, there is enough of God's truth imprinted in our souls to know that masturbation is wrong, in spite of what Dr. Joe Pop Psychologist says. As other posters have noted, the Bible does support his, although (thankfully) not specifically or graphically.

-Tim

__________________
"Only he can believe who is willing to believe" - Fr. John Laux, M.A.

Matthew 5:28 (New International Version)
But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

If you can do it without lust than it is not a sin.

Did Jesus masturbate?

Leviticus 15:16-18 (New International Version)

16 " 'When a man has an emission of semen, he must bathe his whole body with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 17 Any clothing or leather that has semen on it must be washed with water, and it will be unclean till evening. 18 When a man lies with a woman and there is an emission of semen, both must bathe with water, and they will be unclean till evening.

Leviticus 15:32
These are the regulations for a man with a discharge, for anyone made unclean by an emission of semen,

Leviticus 22:4
" 'If a descendant of Aaron has an infectious skin disease or a bodily discharge, he may not eat the sacred offerings until he is cleansed. He will also be unclean if he touches something defiled by a corpse or by anyone who has an emission of semen,

Matthew 5:28 (New International Version)
But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

If you can do it without lust than it is not a sin.

Did Jesus masturbate?

Leviticus 15:16-18 (New International Version)

16 " 'When a man has an emission of semen, he must bathe his whole body with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 17 Any clothing or leather that has semen on it must be washed with water, and it will be unclean till evening. 18 When a man lies with a woman and there is an emission of semen, both must bathe with water, and they will be unclean till evening.

Leviticus 15:32
These are the regulations for a man with a discharge, for anyone made unclean by an emission of semen,

Leviticus 22:4
" 'If a descendant of Aaron has an infectious skin disease or a bodily discharge, he may not eat the sacred offerings until he is cleansed. He will also be unclean if he touches something defiled by a corpse or by anyone who has an emission of semen,

How exactly would Leviticus apply?

first, that was OT.

For in the OT, things like polygamy and divorce were permitted because the fullness of redemption and revelation had not yet come. We now live in the NT. Hence, now, through the grace of the sacraments and the fullness of revelation, loads of which is in the Pope's Theology of the Body, it is now possible to approach chastity and live it. Will one ever be perfect? no. Hence, there is confession to be reconciled, the Eucharist to strenghthen to renew the battle, or to maintian grace while you yet have it.

I mean, did God create us to use ourselves for pleasure? Is this not selfish? Sure, you may even be fantasizing that you are making love to the woman who will be your wife. But there is still the objective reality that you are alone and not actually giving love to anyone.

I must warn you, Daniel, that eventually, fantasies that still retain a "pure" element will eventually not be enough. Eventually you will descend into lust, and from there, you are no longer a free person, but a slave. There are groups for sex addicts just like alcohol.

i realize that this may come as a shock and seem absurd, but this is precisely why they say Jesus saves. We are desperately in need of saving help from God. And the problem of masturbation is a very terrbly evident proof of this.

I am not telling you that someone can become chaste overnight. Hence there is the purgation, a slow and painful process. But take courage: the answer is not to bury your sexual desires but transform them into love. Intrinsically, our urges our good, they are the stuff that motivates us towards union with God. But with sin, and by the devil, they become twisted. Jesus did not come to suppress the desires but transform them from selfishness to selflessness.

With prayer, penance, the sacraments, and frequent meditation on the intrinsic beauty of the human person, in all facets, it is possibly to progressively gain in the virtue of purity, which is love, the love that Christ lived.

BTW, perhaps Jesus had a nocturnal ommission, for in sleep, a person is not culpable. But He would never have consciously masturbated, because He never sinned.

For in the OT, things like polygamy and divorce were permitted because the fullness of redemption and revelation had not yet come. We now live in the NT. Hence, now, through the grace of the sacraments and the fullness of revelation, loads of which is in the Pope's Theology of the Body, it is now possible to approach chastity and live it. Will one ever be perfect? no. Hence, there is confession to be reconciled, the Eucharist to strenghthen to renew the battle, or to maintian grace while you yet have it.

I mean, did God create us to use ourselves for pleasure? Is this not selfish? Sure, you may even be fantasizing that you are making love to the woman who will be your wife. But there is still the objective reality that you are alone and not actually giving love to anyone.

I must warn you, Daniel, that eventually, fantasies that still retain a "pure" element will eventually not be enough. Eventually you will descend into lust, and from there, you are no longer a free person, but a slave. There are groups for sex addicts just like alcohol.

i realize that this may come as a shock and seem absurd, but this is precisely why they say Jesus saves. We are desperately in need of saving help from God. And the problem of masturbation is a very terrbly evident proof of this.

I am not telling you that someone can become chaste overnight. Hence there is the purgation, a slow and painful process. But take courage: the answer is not to bury your sexual desires but transform them into love. Intrinsically, our urges our good, they are the stuff that motivates us towards union with God. But with sin, and by the devil, they become twisted. Jesus did not come to suppress the desires but transform them from selfishness to selflessness.

With prayer, penance, the sacraments, and frequent meditation on the intrinsic beauty of the human person, in all facets, it is possibly to progressively gain in the virtue of purity, which is love, the love that Christ lived.

BTW, perhaps Jesus had a nocturnal ommission, for in sleep, a person is not culpable. But He would never have consciously masturbated, because He never sinned.

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.

2 Peter 1

5For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.

1 Thessalonians 4:4
that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable,

And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord doth man live. Deut. 8:3

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalm 119:160

Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Proverbs 30:5

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Matthew 4:4

And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God. Luke 4:4

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Tim. 3:16

note "all scripture" here in context is the OT!!!!!!

Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word. Psalm 119:9

Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. Psalm 119:11

What is the importance of studying the Old Testament?

Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. 1 Cor. 10:6

Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 1 Cor. 10:11

And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. Luke 24:27

It is Jesus himself who includes the OT as part of the christian cannon.

2 Timothy 3:1-4
But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God...