Richardson, Jane

ORAL HISTORY OF JANE RICHARDSON
Interviewed by Don Hunnicutt
Filmed by BBB Communications, LLC.
January 21, 2014
MR. HUNNICUTT: This interview is for the Center of Oak Ridge Oral History. The date is January 21st, 2014. I am Don Hunnicutt in the home of Jane Richardson, 543 Dry Valley Road, Townsend, Tennessee, to take her oral history about living in Oak Ridge, Tennessee. Jane please state your full name including your maiden name and place of birth and date please.
MS. RICHARDSON: All right. It's Jane Garland Richardson. I was born in Kingsport, Tennessee in 1930, July 31st actually of 1930. And what was the other…?
MR. HUNNICUTT: That was it. Will you state your father's name and place of birth if you recall?
MS. RICHARDSON: Jack Warren Garland and he was born in North Carolina in a little town, Mortimer, North Carolina.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall the date?
MS. RICHARDSON: 1905.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Okay. Your mother's name, maiden name, and place of birth if you recall.
MS. RICHARDSON: Martha Potter Garland and she was born in Smithville, Tennessee and it was in 1904.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Your grandfather's name and place of birth on your father's side.
MS. RICHARDSON: He was William Ezekiel Garland and they called him big Zeke because he was six foot eight inches tall, big guy. And he was from the same area, Little Rock Creek, Mitchell County, North Carolina, born in 1872.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall your grandmother on that side, her name?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, Florence Banner Garland, and Banner Elk was named after her grandfather and brothers, who settled it. She was born in 1882 in Mitchell County, Sugar Mountain, North Carolina.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What about on your mother's side of the family?
MS. RICHARDSON: I'll tell you, that I'm not quite as sure of. My grandmother was Ida Belle Wade Potter and she was from Smithville. Her birth date was 1875.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What about your grandfather on that side?
MS. RICHARDSON: His name was George Harrison, George Harrison Potter and he was from DeKalb County, Tennessee, and was born in 1871. That’s really all I know. He died at age 40 so I never met him.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Your father's schooling, what do you remember about his schooling?
MS. RICHARDSON: My father's…?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes.
MS. RICHARDSON: He had two years at Appalachian State College I think it was called then. It's Appalachian State University now. And then he decided that he wanted to travel out west with his brother-in-law and they had a wonderful time instead of college.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What about your mother's schooling?
MS. RICHARDSON: My mother--when my grandfather Potter died, my grandmother could not support the family with all the children she had which was seven. And so they went to a school down in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. It was a Presbyterian school for half orphans in the sense that one parent was still alive. And so she was a little girl and that's where she went and she graduated from there in high school and that was her schooling.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall what the home place looked like when you were growing up?
MS. RICHARDSON: Well…
MR. HUNNICUTT: And where was that by the way…?
MS. RICHARDSON: In Kingsport, I lived my first five years on Watauga Avenue in an apartment and then moved to a little white house with my grandmother. This was right after the Depression hit. And there was my grandmother, two aunts, my mother, and then a third aunt who was crippled. And two of my brothers and I lived there until we were--I think I was seven maybe when we moved--my mother moved the children and herself to a little village outside Kingsport where we went to school for two years. And then let's see, my father in the meantime was off in--you know, you went where you could to get work and so when he was able to come back and started with Tennessee Eastman, and I should say again because he had worked with them before, we moved to Bristol Highway.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You mentioned sisters, do you have brothers and sisters?
MS. RICHARDSON: No, I have three brothers.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Okay. What are their names?
MS. RICHARDSON: Dan--Warren Garland is the oldest and he's 85 and then I was next and Richard and Tom and I came to Oak Ridge with my parents. My oldest brother did not. He went to help out the grandparents. And Richard was born in 1932 and Tommy was born in '34.
MR. HUNNICUTT: When you were living in Kingsport tell me about schooling, what do you remember about going to school and what type of school house was it?
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, my first school was a little--I don't know how many rooms were in it but it was just the first and second grade. And I would say there were probably 25 children in each class. And that's about all I remember about it except that I was smacked on the hand by a teacher because I was not paying attention. But the second school I went to in Kingsport was then Washington and it was third through fifth. And then there was another one on Bristol Highway and I honestly do not remember the name of it. But then I went to junior high. And that was seventh and eighth grade and Jefferson I think was the name of that school. But I'm not sure. And we moved from there while I was in the eighth grade.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, back to your third through the fifth grade, was there a lot of children in school in those days when you went?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes. Washington was in an area that had both very wealthy people and the children and the middle class and the very, very poor. And that's all I remember about it.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What was the typical dress for a girl going to school in those days?
MS. RICHARDSON: In junior high, or…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, in elementary as junior high.
MS. RICHARDSON: Of course, it was a skirt and bobby socks.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And you referred to bobby socks, what is that?
MS. RICHARDSON: That was just little socks and shoes like an oxford or--what were they called--saddle oxfords.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now is that a lace up type shoe or slip on?
MS. RICHARDSON: It's a lace up shoe.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did the school have a heating system in the middle of the school room or did they--do you recall that?
MS. RICHARDSON: No, it seemed to--I don't recall that. So I think that both the one first and second and third through fifth were heated by a coal system probably.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you have a lot of homework or do you remember when you were in elementary school?
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, I think we did most of our work in school in the first and second grade and the third through fifth I do remember bringing paper home to work on.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you like school?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, uh-huh.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember any of your teacher's names?
MS. RICHARDSON: I remember the one who slapped my hand, Miss Barnes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. Now when you got to junior high what do you remember different than from elementary school?
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, we were--although a seventh grader was still the underdog. You had to be an eighth grader to really be considered grown up. But the courses were much harder. Math in the sixth grade and the elementary school was the beginning of really hard classes. And by the seventh grade I'm not a--I wasn't a math student. And so when I say they were hard that's because I couldn't learn fractions. And that's what I remember about it. So I had to go to summer school to get the fractions. And so I would say it was probably a pretty stiff curriculum.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What was your favorite subjects in school?
MS. RICHARDSON: Always literature…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember some of your teachers in junior high?
MS. RICHARDSON: No
MR. HUNNICUTT: In junior high did you have a physical education program that you remember?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What did that consist of?
MS. RICHARDSON: Usually in the gym, and we would play--not volleyball. It might have been a little form of basketball and then exercises.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you like gym?
MS. RICHARDSON: Uh-uh. No, sorry about that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, what was the typical summer like when you were in junior high between school grades?
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, I had one friend across the street and we did a lot of things together at our homes. We didn't go places a lot. But when we did go we'd walk. Like if we went to movies it might have been a mile and a half or two away to the theater but we walked. And one of the things in junior high, I told my father that a lot of my friends would stop by the drug store after school and get a Coke or something, and I didn't have any money. And so he had an account there and he told them to let me come in and charge something. So one day the pharmacist called my father and said, “Jack, I don't think you know what your daughter's doing. She is buying everybody their drink during the day.” So anyway, that was…
MR. HUNNICUTT: You probably had a lot of friends that way.
MS. RICHARDSON: I did have a lot of friends until that stopped.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Tell me what you remember inside that drug store looked like.
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, it had little tables along the windows in front. I can remember that. And then across from that was this bar which was the pharmacist. And the pharmacist, I mean I'm assuming or maybe his assistant, was the one who mixed our drinks and we would have milkshakes and Coca-Cola. That was pretty much it. I'm sure there were other things but that's pretty much what we did.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember how much that cost?
MS. RICHARDSON: I think the Cokes were five dollars and the milkshakes I'm not sure but--I'm sorry, not five dollars, five cents. Oh man! And…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Probably five dollars today.
MS. RICHARDSON: Right, it could have been. And I think probably the milkshakes were ten cents.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So was that a habit every day of stopping at the drug store?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, it was until it was stopped.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So how long would you stay at the drugstore before you went home?
MS. RICHARDSON: We couldn't stay long, of course. No more than an hour. But it was a good social time.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So what did you do after your father stopped you from buying everybody drinks?
MS. RICHARDSON: I don't recall. I really don't.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did your mother work any outside of the home?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, she did.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What did she do?
MS. RICHARDSON: When she--for years--in fact that's how my father met her she was a receptionist at Tennessee Eastman and then she became the supervisor, I guess you would call it, of the switchboard and so she was switchboard operator. And then they got married and she continued, yeah. And in between having all of us four children.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall what type of work your father did at Tennessee Eastman.
MS. RICHARDSON: He did a number of things that I don’t remember. I mean little--when he first came there, I'm not sure. But he mainly was a timber buyer.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I see. Now why did your family come to Oak Ridge?
MS. RICHARDSON: Eastman came and they asked my father to come.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So they was recruiting people…
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, from their plant in Kingsport.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember what year that might have been?
MS. RICHARDSON: That was '43.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And when your father decided to come do you recall your mother's reaction to that?
MS. RICHARDSON: No, I don’t. I know the family was a little upset because this was first time anybody moved away. And we were a very close community of family. And for instance, I would hop from house to house. I mean it wasn't--I could go to my aunt's and stay a couple of weeks without anybody thinking anything about it. But he came--I think it was October of '43 when he came and the reason we did not come at that time was because there were no houses. And so he was on the list. And we received--we were given an F house which was, as I got older, I thought, “My gosh this is weird because this is the house in Oak Ridge.” And somebody like Weinberg for instance had a B house. He had two boys. My father had put down three boys and one girl because at the time he thought our oldest brother was coming too. And that's how we got an F house.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, now your oldest brother, Dan, where did he live?
MS. RICHARDSON: He lived in Erwin, Tennessee.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And when your mother and the rest of your kids came to Oak Ridge how did you get there?
MS. RICHARDSON: Okay. We came by bus, the first part of January '44. Our house was almost completed and we came by bus and my father and a driver from Oak Ridge met us, picked us up at the bus station, and drove us to Oak Ridge-raining furiously the whole time. I think it rained that first year every day. But anyway, we came through heavy rain, and it took forever it seemed because the--I think the mileage--we had to go through Clinton and it was probably 35 miles an hour speed limit sort of thing. So it took us some time. And we got to Elza Gate. You want to hear that?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Sure.
MS. RICHARDSON: I mean there's nothing exciting about it except we had to get out of the car and they went through everything, so.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, when you rode the bus you came to Knoxville….
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And then…
MS. RICHARDSON: And then that's where she picked us up. The driver was a woman. She was the one who did this all the time. And…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was she wearing--was in a uniform of any sort?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes. Well, sort of in a sense. I think it was her hat. Yeah, sort of like a taxi driver I guess.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So what type of work did your father do when he came to Oak Ridge?
MS. RICHARDSON: He was at that point I'm not exactly sure because it was a job before his permanent job and I'm not--I really can't tell you what it was. But when he did get into his permanent job it was in what they call Stores. Now what do we call it today where stuff comes in and stuff goes out?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Shipping and Receiving…
MS. RICHARDSON: Shipping and Receiving, thank you, but they called it Stores. And he was--he worked himself up to a supervisor of Stores through the years.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was that at Y-12?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, at Y-12.
MR. HUNNICUTT: It just dawned on me I knew your father at Y-12, knew--I'm not sure I met him but the name just now rings a bell.
MS. RICHARDSON: Is that right?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes.
MS. RICHARDSON: Is that right, Jack Garland?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, that is wonderful.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes. So the driver, which is unusual for someone to be picked up by a driver unless there was someone up the ladder of command, you know.
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, the reason I think is we had no car and you know, there was--my father had no car. I don’t know how that happened.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, maybe that was the reason why then.
MS. RICHARDSON: It may be.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did he ride the bus down into Oak Ridge like…
MS. RICHARDSON: I don't know.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Uh-huh. Now when you--when the lady driver picked you up and you stopped at Elza Gate and got out, was it still raining?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was there any way of being out of the rain or would you just stand out in the rain?
MS. RICHARDSON: No, I think we went in a little building and…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Waited there while they searched the car.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah, and I think it had something to do with giving us a pass that one was there waiting for us. I think that was it.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So then where did you go from Elza Gate?
MS. RICHARDSON: We went to our house.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And where was that located?
MS. RICHARDSON: On--off Delaware Avenue, on 103 West Damascus Road. And what was not finished was our porch but the interior of the house, the basic house…
MR. HUNNICUTT: The back porch…
MS. RICHARDSON: No, it was the side porch.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That goes into the kitchen area.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes. And it was the basic house was finished and I thought about this the other night. I think that we must have had all of our furnishings shipped in earlier because I do not--as I remember when we went in the house had everything there, not in place but it was in the house so that we could sleep there that night.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember your mother's reaction when she saw the new home place?
MS. RICHARDSON: Oh she liked it. Yeah. My mother was--she was a very relaxed sort of person in things of change. She had had a lot of changes in her life and so it didn't--nothing really upset her that much. If it did she did not let us children know it.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, what about you and your two brothers, do you remember?
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, at first it was really a shock and the main person who was affected was my Aunt Georgia in Kingsport who I had spent I would say many years of living with her off and on. And she was really upset. She wanted me to stay with her and her husband. And Mama and Daddy said, “No, if we do we've lost her.”
MR. HUNNICUTT: You would have been about what, 13 or so…
MS. RICHARDSON: 13, I was 13.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What do you remember how it looked, the time you left Elza Gate till you got to the house on Damascus?
MS. RICHARDSON: I don’t really remember much about that. What I remember is the next day and looking out and seeing the street above us. They were building the houses, the street above that had the framework. I mean the one above us, things were pretty much on the outside looked good. The one above that was framework. The one above that was the foundation, and above that there was nothing. I mean it was weekly.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Construction activity around the clock.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes. It was.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So what time of year was that?
MS. RICHARDSON: That was January, the first part of January.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall was the weather cold?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah. Well, it was mainly I recall rain and that's--I don’t recall whether it was a cold, cold winter or not. I just remember rain.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did the house have a wooden sidewalk or do you remember?
MS. RICHARDSON: Up the front steps it had wooden steps going up to the front door. And I don’t believe we got--we had gravel maybe from the--I don't know, it couldn’t have been.
MR. HUNNICUTT: The streets were probably still muddy, weren’t they?
MS. RICHARDSON: Oh yes, the mud. You never forget that. You never forget it.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was--did the house have heat in it when you guys got there?
MS. RICHARDSON: We had coal, coal furnace.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What do you recall about over the years how you got the coal to the house?
MS. RICHARDSON: A truck came by.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And where did they put the coal, do you remember?
MS. RICHARDSON: In a little, not shed, but a little box outside. And you went out and got the coal and shoveled it into the furnace.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now the next day when you got up and you looked out and saw this construction what was your thoughts? Do you remember what that was like?
MS. RICHARDSON: I don’t remember what my thoughts were really but I was so anxious about school, changing the school, and meeting new people. I was not someone who--a child who just popped into things. And so it was scary for me.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember how you got to school or what were first day and where did you go to school the first day?
MS. RICHARDSON: I went to Elm Grove.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And that would have been what grade?
MS. RICHARDSON: That was the eighth grade, the second part of the eighth grade.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And do you recall how you got to school?
MS. RICHARDSON: By bus.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So it had probably been--I wonder how it was set up that you were enrolled in school because everything was so new, do you think your father took care of that or do you recall?
MS. RICHARDSON: I can remember going into the office and letting them know I was there. and then they took me to the room I was to be in.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now when you caught the bus did the bus come by the house or did you have to walk down…
MS. RICHARDSON: No. I walked--West Damascus was a circle and there was East--on the other side of Delaware was East Damascus. We were West Damascus. And so I had to walk up to the corner and they stopped any time--at any corner, any street that they saw a child the bus would stop and you would get on. And that's where we got the reputation of muddy shoes because there was nothing to walk on except mud practically. I lost my--I did. I was one of those who lost a shoe.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now Elm Grove was the first elementary school built…
MS. RICHARDSON: Was it?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes. And I presume that's the reason you went to Elm Grove living on Damascus.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah, well it was close.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, it's not too far away.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah
MR. HUNNICUTT: But that was the first one. So what do you remember the first day you went in the office and told them you were there and then what do you remember?
MS. RICHARDSON: And meeting my teacher. Her name was Mrs. Anderson. She was a little short pretty red head. And her personality was such that it just sort of put you at ease. I think that that was maybe one of the reasons she had been hired because of her personality. And she introduced me. Oh, she didn't just introduce me, she--all the kids came in and she introduced all of us. And that first day we didn't do anything really except get the idea of what we would be doing. I don't know why I remember all of this.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, it's good that you do.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah. Isn't that interesting?
MR. HUNNICUTT: There was a lot of different kids in the class from different places of the country, wasn't there?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, and some I couldn't understand. It was really funny and I know they couldn't understand me either. And we were all from the United States.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So as the school day progressed what else do you remember how it went?
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, you just got to where you got into it like you would coming from the elementary school to junior high in Kingsport. You know, you just got into the system. That's as well as I can say.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And what was your next school you attended in Oak Ridge?
MS. RICHARDSON: Oak Ridge High School--at that time they had the ninth grade.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I see. And where was the high school located?
MS. RICHARDSON: Up on the top of the hill above Town Site.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And what do you recall the difference in going to the high school than where you were going before?
MS. RICHARDSON: I didn't go to high school in Kingsport.
MR. HUNNICUTT: No, I mean from the eighth grade to the ninth grade.
MS. RICHARDSON: Oh, I see. Excuse me. I think that was exciting the thought of growing up maybe and I met--I can't really recall how I met people but there was no problem at making friends and being part of the class because I guess we all were in the same boat.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, everybody was new.
MS. RICHARDSON: Everybody was new.
MR. HUNNICUTT: They hadn't developed all those bad habits, did they?
MS. RICHARDSON: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now when you attended high school in Jackson Square how did you get to school, ride the bus as well?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, how did you know which bus to get on to go to the high school, do you remember?
MS. RICHARDSON: No. I don’t. I just know that the bus came down. They stopped for me and I went to school.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now did you get on the bus at the same place you did when you went to the eighth grade?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, uh-huh.
MR. HUNNICUTT: When you went to the high school what type of classes do you recall you took?
MS. RICHARDSON: I took--okay, I took English and math, algebra, and biology and what would have been another basic, but they were the basic courses. There were four.
MR. HUNNICUTT: English and math and biology and…
MS. RICHARDSON: English, math, biology and
MR. HUNNICUTT: Probably, maybe world history or something.
MS. RICHARDSON: Maybe something--yeah, history. I'm sure it was history.
MR. HUNNICUTT: History of some sort.
MS. RICHARDSON: Uh-huh.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did--thinking back was the school system in Kingsport harder or easier than the Oak Ridge system? Do you remember?
MS. RICHARDSON: Oh, no, I don't. But I--because I didn't know what high school would be like in Kingsport I had no comparison there. The eighth grade I don’t remember whether it was harder or not.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember some of your teachers in high school?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes. As a matter of fact, I can bring up their names. Geez! I can see them, Ms. Holbert, Stansberry…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Ms. Mar…
MS. RICHARDSON: Mars, I did not have her and I always wish I had because I think if I had I would have been able to do my math.
MR. HUNNICUTT: She was noted to be a great math teacher.
MS. RICHARDSON: Oh yes. I failed algebra the first year and had to take it again.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You know, it's --math, if you don’t get the formulas and catch on right away you get lost real quick.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, you do.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I became good in math after that but…
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, what happened I had four algebra teachers that, okay, I'm remembering some things of the ninth grade. We had a big shift in teachers in some classes. And that was one of them. And when you have that many changes I think you would have to really be into algebra or math of any sort to do anything with it. So I assume that's why I failed it.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you take any music classes while you were in high school?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, I did with Mr. Scarborough…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Scarborough…
MS. RICHARDSON: Uh-huh, and it was not an instrument class. It was a music theory.
MR. HUNNICUTT: He later became the principal of the high school many years later.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes. I think so.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And led the band I believe as well.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now you had a physical education program in the high school.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, that's right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall what girls did in those days in physical education?
MS. RICHARDSON: I guess sort of the same thing, we played basketball and we ran track, and that's about…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember who your gym teacher was?
MS. RICHARDSON: No, I can see her face. Isn't that awful, you lose the name but you can see the visual?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Does Mrs. Gottshall come to mind?
MS. RICHARDSON: Who?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Gottshall…
MS. RICHARDSON: No.
MR. HUNNICUTT: She was--maybe that was later at the high school, but…
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah. No, this one she was--she had blonde hair and it was cut short and I don't--you know, it's strange…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now there was something unique in the high school gym. It's kind of different than you'll ever see in schools today that kept the boys on one side and the girls on the other. Do you remember that?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: The curtain that was pulled across the center.
MS. RICHARDSON: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you know, was Ben Martin the high school coach at that time?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes he was at the beginning.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did--in those days did you have to take showers in physical education?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, and it was very difficult for me because I had never undressed in front of anybody except my mother.
MR. HUNNICUTT: It was that way with boys too.
MS. RICHARDSON: Was it?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes. That's a real culture shock, isn't it?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And if I remember right, didn't it have little baskets you were supposed to put your personal clothes in.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And you had gym clothes that you were supposed to wear.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes. Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now basketball for girls in those days was played a whole lot different than it is today.
MS. RICHARDSON: It was, and I didn't--and I had injured myself in basketball in the seventh grade or maybe, it might have been the fall of the eighth grade before I came to Oak Ridge. I fell and hit my tailbone and cracked it. And so I mean that was painful. And so I was very hesitant in basketball after that. Otherwise I think I would have been a good player.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, do you remember how the game was played in those days?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, but I'm not--I can't tell you how it was played. I just know that women could only go so far and then some other group took over or something. Does that make sense?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes.
MS. RICHARDSON: Okay.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, you was designated in an area that you could play in and then other team had to play in the other area sort of like half-court basketball or something.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, and I was so excited. I can remember being excited when it changed.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you like running track?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes. I was pretty good at that. I did not do the jumping over the…
MR. HUNNICUTT: The hurdles…
MS. RICHARDSON: …the hurdles. But I ran and I was pretty good. And I did the long jump--no.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Broad jump.
MS. RICHARDSON: The broad jump--thank you.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So you were on the track team or you did that just in physical…
MS. RICHARDSON: I think that was just in the gym, gymnasium type of--I mean our PE program.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What was the dress like for a high school girl?
MS. RICHARDSON: Bobby socks--I remember the saddle oxfords. Now this was--I'm trying to think. No, even my junior and senior pictures I had that kind of thing. Our skirts would go up and down but not too far up. But…
MR. HUNNICUTT: You mean the length of the skirt.
MS. RICHARDSON: The length of the skirt, oh Lord yes, the length would go up and down in length and we wore sweaters.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Tell me about hoop skirts.
MS. RICHARDSON: Oh yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Poodle skirts, maybe that's what it's called.
MS. RICHARDSON: Poodle skirts, they were called poodle skirts, and I wasn’t fond of those. I'm not--I've surely had one because you wanted to be in style, so. But I wasn't one who enjoyed dressing like that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now what type of hair style did girls wear in those days?
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, mine was long to my shoulders and sometimes I had it back but quite often bangs. Bangs seemed to be a style…
MR. HUNNICUTT: What about pony tails, was that in?
MS. RICHARDSON: And pony tails, we wore pony tails, and it all--what mine looked like during each day depended on whether I had washed my hair or not.
MR. HUNNICUTT: How much prep you wanted to do.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall how boy’s hair looked in those days?
MS. RICHARDSON: I believe those were the buzz cuts or was that too soon? I'm not sure when the buzz cuts started. Oh, some of them had longer hair. Yeah, yeah, the…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Dove tails…
MS. RICHARDSON: Dove tails…That--I'd almost forgot--I had forgotten that. But I even can tell you the name of a couple of guys, Zach Coffer [ph] had a dove--I mean he was the zoot sooter in high school.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What do you mean by zoot soot?
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, the jacket, the suit jacket, broad shoulders, and down to the waist, down to below the hips, and then these big trousers that bloomed out, and maybe they came in tight to the ankles. I believe that's what it looked like sort of.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So he'd be dressed like he's going to some kind of function but yet that'd be his everyday dress.
MS. RICHARDSON: But he'd be in high school. He'd be in school.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And were jeans popular as well for boys?
MS. RICHARDSON: For boys, not for girls. I don’t recall owning a pair of jeans at all.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So even when you weren't going to school you still wore a dress out to play or whatever you did.
MS. RICHARDSON: No, surely not. I must have had a pair of jeans.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Slacks of some sort.
MS. RICHARDSON: Slacks--yes, I don’t recall jeans but maybe slacks.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, you referred to as oxfords, were they different colored shoes.
MS. RICHARDSON: Brown and white.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And laced up and…
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah, yeah, they were called saddle oxfords I think.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember what type shoes boys used to wear?
MS. RICHARDSON: Uh-uh, no.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now your brothers, what school did they go to?
MS. RICHARDSON: They went to Elm Grove and then I believe--oh, let's see Richard, I think, came to the high school above Jackson Square but Tommy started high school at the new one.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did they attend the junior high at that time?
MS. RICHARDSON: They must have because …
MR. HUNNICUTT: It would be down at the old Robertsville School.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah
MR. HUNNICUTT: So your mother stayed at home and took care of the family at first?
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, after--when she first came she was in charge of the switchboard at Y-12 and then they decided that she just--she and Daddy decided it was better for her to be at home because of our ages. And we didn't have the support system in Oak Ridge that we had had at home where we had a maid and family. And so she quit. And then my memory is that she decided that since she wasn't working anymore the house was too big for us. I don’t understand that but I'm wondering if there was maybe a financial change or what, but we moved to a C house over off Kentucky and that was in--that must have been in '46.
MR. HUNNICUTT: During the summertime in between school years did you do any work or what did you do during the summertime? Lets' put it like that.
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, I would go back to Kingsport and spend the summer. That was…
MR. HUNNICUTT: With your Aunt…
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, that was the first and second year. Now when I was sixteen--yeah, I was sixteen, the Ridge Rec Hall was open and they had a restaurant in there at the time. And men who were there without their families would come there and eat. And anyway, I thought I'd like to have a little money and we lived right above the Chapel on the Hill. And so I got permission from my father to try this. And my brother would come after me. And I was the hit of the dining room because I was young. I smiled, you know, and these men, some of them were very lonely for home. I was never hit on is the new--the comment is now--ever. But my father got really nervous about it because I was coming home with wonderful tips. And so after three weeks he said, “No, you cannot do this.” So they sent me to Kingsport again.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Where was the Ridge Rec Hall located?
MS. RICHARDSON: It was right below the Alexander Hotel.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now was the Library under the Rec Hall, do you remember or was that later?
MS. RICHARDSON: That was later.
MR. HUNNICUTT: In the Rec Hall beside the eating facility did they have an area for dancing in?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, and they had a huge room we would--there would be bridge tournaments in there and parties and dancing but mainly bridge. That was my big memory. And so we, as high school students, would go there and in the dining area we could sit there with our Coca-Cola and play pinochle but that's where I learned to play bridge. And I loved bridge for years and I forgot how to play pinochle.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember how much money you made when you worked?
MS. RICHARDSON: No, no, I don't.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What type of food did you serve?
MS. RICHARDSON: Regular, probably canned things, I don't know, but it was regular food. I know hamburgers and it seemed to me that it would be a plate of vegetables and meat of some sort that the men would get. But those of us would get hamburgers or hot dogs.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What hours did you work?
MS. RICHARDSON: It would 6:00 to 10:00 I guess.
MR. HUNNICUTT: At night.
MS. RICHARDSON: Uh-huh, or maybe 5:00 to 10:00, and that’s what worried my father was that even though my brothers came, walked down, and met me to walk home with me it still was very nerve-racking for him.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now was there a lot of people--was that facility open 24 hours?
MS. RICHARDSON: I don't know about 24 but it was open--no, I don't believe so. There was another place down across Tennessee Avenue, Central…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Cafeteria…
MS. RICHARDSON: ….Cafeteria, and that was open 24 hours a day. And as seniors we were down there a lot too.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, the Wildcat Den was at the end of that.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah, because the Wildcat was at the other end of that cafeteria.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Speaking of, describe what the Wildcat Den looked like.
MS. RICHARDSON: Okay, you walked in, it was just one big room, and it was long and wood floors and nice windows, and the furniture was comfortable but not overstuffed or anything. But we played games in there too. And we danced. Now that's where we really got into dancing.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did they have a juke box?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yep, uh-huh.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember how much it cost to play the juke box?
MS. RICHARDSON: Uh-huh.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What type of music did you dance to?
MS. RICHARDSON: Jitterbug, oh my, we could win all kinds of contests we were so good. And it was people from other places didn't dance like we did. They were jitterbugging but we had our own style. And I think it was a combination of a number of different styles of the kids who came from different parts of the country. And we just sort of, I guess, mixed them together…
MR. HUNNICUTT: The Oak Ridge jitterbug.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah. It was wonderful.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, now did you do all of that where the guy gets the gal and slings her over his shoulder and all that kind of stuff.
MS. RICHARDSON: No, I was never slung over anybody's shoulder nor between their legs.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you have to pay for your drinks while you were there?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah, I'm sure we did.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Who was in charge of running the Wildcat Den?
MS. RICHARDSON: I wish I could remember his name. I can-there again, I can see him. What was his name?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Shep Lauder…
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, Shep Lauder….
MR. HUNNICUTT: He had the Wildcat Den until--for many, many years.
MS. RICHARDSON: He did.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You said you played games, what, Ping Pong, did you have Ping Pong in there?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, I'm pretty sure now. Sometimes I get mixed up in that sort of thing because we had Ping Pong at the Ridge Rec Hall and we played up there too.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was there a piano there as well?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: The only reason I know I've seen pictures of it.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah, yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember a particular automobile that had on the side of the door it had that atomic crush or something like that that…Atom Smasher, that's right, that was in a picture that Ed Westcott took out in front on Central Avenue. It had a bunch of kids in it? Were you involved in that in any way? Don Riley was the driver.
MS. RICHARDSON: Was he? Was he the driver?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah.
MS. RICHARDSON: It's pulling up a memory but…
MR. HUNNICUTT: “Calling All Girls,” do you remember--I think that was a magazine that it was part of that of some sort.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah, I don't remember.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, did you visit the Den about every day? Was that something after school that…
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah, pretty much, pretty much. And we also went to--at the other end of Jackson square where Big Ed's showed up, but it wasn't Big Ed's. He came much later.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Service Drug Store…
MS. RICHARDSON: Service Drug Store--thank you.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now what else do you remember in Jackson Square while we're talking about it?
MS. RICHARDSON: Okay. There was an A&P.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Where was that located?
MS. RICHARDSON: It was--unless I have my stores mixed up--at the part that's the square. It was on the left side. Was that the A&P or it was on…
MR. HUNNICUTT: That was the Community Store.
MS. RICHARDSON: That was Community--okay. A&P was down the long stretch. But anyway, I'll tell you something there that still sort of embarrasses me a little. But we were--it was during the--when we were rationed and had coupons and we had to take a number and get in line. And my mother sent me to the store for a half a pound of hamburger. And so I was in line and my number was called. And innocently I said, “Yes, I'd like a half a pound of hamburger. It's for my dog.” I thought I was going to be run out of that store. I had furious women saying awful things to me. But I didn't know. We didn't eat hamburger. It wasn't--it was just something we had never had but we'd give it to our dog. And…
MR. HUNNICUTT: I can imagine what was said.
MS. RICHARDSON: Oh man. It was awful. But so I learned never…
MR. HUNNICUTT: You mentioned you had a number. Do you recall how they--if you were standing in line outside the store did someone come out and give you a number or do you remember how that worked?
MS. RICHARDSON: It may be that we went in--I don’t recall ever being outside so I must have been there when the lines--I was able to be inside. But we went in and picked up a number I think and got in line. And so I imagine even if they were outside that's what they would have done but I don't know.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you get the hamburger?
MS. RICHARDSON: I got the hamburger. They gave it to me. I had the coupon or the ration ticket, whatever it was called.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you ever go back to the store for your mother after that?
MS. RICHARDSON: I was very cautious.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now what other stores do you remember being in Jackson Square?
MS. RICHARDSON: Millers, and…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now Millers was the department store.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah. And then Williams Drug and Samuel's they may have come later, not sure, but there was a shoe store, shoe repair, and, of course, the theater but now when did that come along? The years…
MR. HUNNICUTT: It was all at the same time.
MS. RICHARDSON: It was all when it--okay, and then over on the opposite side from the theater we had some sort of recreation in there because I could…
MR. HUNNICUTT: The Arcade building I believe they called it.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes. And there--I don't--it was--we'd dance. I mean I don’t remember. That may have been before the Wildcat Den set up.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I think it was.
MS. RICHARDSON: Uh-huh.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. Do you remember the bowling lanes, down, the bowling alley underneath that?
MS. RICHARDSON: I never went there but I knew they were there.
MR. HUNNICUTT: We were discussing about Jackson Square, did you ever go to the Center Theater?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall how much it cost to get in?
MS. RICHARDSON: No. My father paid because we didn't go to the movies except when it was just our family, so.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So the whole family went to the Center Theater.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What about the Ridge, did you attend…
MS. RICHARDSON: And the Ridge the same thing. If we went--no, the Ridge was later, wasn't it?
MR. HUNNICUTT: A little bit but not much.
MS. RICHARDSON: But not much. I'm not sure if my father would let us go by ourselves even then. I think I was maybe a senior before I went to a movie in Oak Ridge without my parents.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now the Service Drug Store was where Big Ed's is.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And they had a fountain, do you remember?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes. We would go there and hang out.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember getting cherry cokes? Did you ever get a cherry coke?
MS. RICHARDSON: I don't think so.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Sodas.
MS. RICHARDSON: I got sodas but I'm not sure that I ever got a cherry coke. Oh sometimes--let's see. When did I start getting floats, Coke floats? It might have been there. I don't know.
MR. HUNNICUTT: It sounds like that your father and your mother was pretty strict on you. Were they that way with your brothers?
MS. RICHARDSON: I don’t believe quite as strict. I really don't believe so. They were both--like Richard was--they called him “Froggy” and he was on the basketball team, you know, one of the top--the five. And so they were pretty much into sports. Tommy was a Golden Glove champ, little skinny fellow that he was but it was his weight. He was Golden Gloves champ. Dan was a big football player. So they were in a different--I got into pretty much a social group that I'm not sure I want to say this on that. It was the Penguin Club. And I really regret joining that. And when my daughters were years later in high school and they were pursued, and I said please don't. It changes your life. And they didn't.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Back to your high school days, did you date in high school?
MS. RICHARDSON: I think my junior year. I had a date to the prom. My senior year I did too. As far as--I did--yes, I did. There I dated a few fellows. And my father was very upset with me because two of the guys I dated had come back and were in school but they had gone into the Navy during the war. And so they were a little older. And he was not happy with that, my father wasn't. It was--and he shouldn't have been. I shouldn't have dated guys--they were say three or four years older. But they were in high school.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, now, what's the difference between your mother's age and your father's age when they got married do you recall?
MS. RICHARDSON: My mother was two years older than my father.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I see. Do you recall where you went on dates?
MS. RICHARDSON: Oh, places like the Ridge Rec Hall or out to the Grove theater, the Grove Center, and they had dances out there. They were all innocent places.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, how did you get to these on a date?
MS. RICHARDSON: These guys had cars.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I see. That was probably a good reason for your father to be…
MS. RICHARDSON: Right, very…
MR. HUNNICUTT: …strict.
MS. RICHARDSON: …very unsteady and I know once without permission, a friend of mine's boyfriend was a motorcyclist. In fact, he became a neurosurgeon or something like that, David Lane. Did you know David Lane.
MR. HUNNICUTT: No.
MS. RICHARDSON: Okay, anyway, he had a friend. Shafer [ph], and the friend didn't have a date and they wanted to go to Gatlinburg so she talked me into going with them. I had never been on a motorcycle and I did not ever want to be on one again. When I got home I guess a neighbor told my parents that I had gone off on a motorcycle. And I was in the house a few months not going anywhere.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I can imagine.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah. But I resisted everything. I mean I was just one of those who, I don't know, my brothers did everything just right and I was a different personality. Even from childhood it was that way.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember home milk delivery?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Tell me a little bit about what you remember about that.
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, we would leave--of course, we never locked doors and I don't think we ever had a key. But anyway we would leave the milk bottles outside and they would bring in if we left two milk bottles that meant we needed two milks. And they would come in and put it in the refrigerator.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Come in the house…
MS. RICHARDSON: In the house and put it in the refrigerator.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Whether there was anybody home or not did they still do that?
MS. RICHARDSON: I guess so. I just know that that's what they did.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did your family have a telephone in those days?
MS. RICHARDSON: Not in the beginning. And then when we did it was a party line and it was--I don't know how many people were on it and we were very thankful when the day came that we were given a private line. And I don’t remember when that happened.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now with a party line you can pick up and eaves drop on somebody's conversation couldn't you?
MS. RICHARDSON: Uh-huh. You sure could.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So you had to be careful what you said...
MS. RICHARDSON: That's right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: …with a party line neighbor to you.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What about do you ever remember what they call rolling stores or a truck that would come around and sell goods out of the back?
MS. RICHARDSON: Uh-huh.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Is that something that your mother bought from?
MS. RICHARDSON: I think we bought bread, Bunny Bread maybe, back. I'm not sure but we bought bread, and then there was the person who came, and I don't know if it was a rolling store or not. But it was like things like cleaning supplies.
MR. HUNNICUTT: [inaudible] man.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes. And the Fuller…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Fuller Brush…
MS. RICHARDSON: …Brush man, they…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Had a lot of door to door salesman, didn't they?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes. This was after--but now this was after the gates opened I think, yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was the city still pretty muddy when you were a senior in high school…
MS. RICHARDSON: Was it still pretty…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Pretty muddy or was it pretty much paved…
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah, but it wasn't as bad and then we had the boardwalks, and we walked like at the Elm Grove shopping center, we would walk down there and get a soda. And sometimes we'd walk--usually we'd walk to school because at some point we had the boardwalk through the woods so our house was very easy to go from our house up and down and around the greenbelt and down the hill and there was Elm Grove school. And so I'm not sure what happened with the buses.
MR. HUNNICUTT: When you worked at the Ridge Rec Hall, do you recall any dignitaries or anyone that later on we found out that was there was famous? Do you remember anybody coming in there?
MS. RICHARDSON: No. There were a lot of really nice men that we would see and look like they might be somebody or somebody's father. I mean, you know. but as far as knowing or suspecting, no, I don't recall any of that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now…
MS. RICHARDSON: I do know that some of my friends fathers were really way up there but I never knew it and I can't tell you which friends this happened but…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, the Ridge Rec Hall was right below the guest house which a lot of scientists stayed under assumed names…
MS. RICHARDSON: And that may be some of these men and they were working there but they were coming down from the Alexander Hotel.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And what year did you graduate?
MS. RICHARDSON: In '48.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And where did you have your graduation ceremonies?
MS. RICHARDSON: It was at the football field.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Outside.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah. I'm pretty sure.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Back during the Christmas times in Oak Ridge, what do you remember as being Christmas time in your family's house?
MS. RICHARDSON: You know, I don't really remember except that a number of years we would go to Kingsport for Christmas at my Aunt Georgia's and Uncle Harry's home and it was fabulous. I mean it was just wonderful food and huge tree, and all of the gifts and everything. But as far as in Oak Ridge, as many years as I lived there in childhood I don’t remember.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I'm going to mention a couple of places and tell me what you remember about them, Snow White Drive-In.
MS. RICHARDSON: It was down on the Turnpike. I didn’t go there often.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Is that a place for kids to kind of hang out or…
MS. RICHARDSON: I don't--I mean it wasn't in my thinking. Later after I was married maybe we'd go there for breakfast.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What about the Oak Ridge swimming pool?
MS. RICHARDSON: Oh yes. We were there. That was a fantastic pool. I have never seen anything like it, nor had anybody else. It was so big. And I loved it. I was there.
MR. HUNNICUTT: It has a unique thing about that pool. Do you remember about the water?
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, I think it was a spring.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And it's cold.
MS. RICHARDSON: And cold, oh very cold.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Still is.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You mentioned dancing at the Grove. Was that at the Grove Rec Hall?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Oak Terrace Ballroom there upstairs.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now did the high school have dances there? Was that where the prom was or where was the prom held?
MS. RICHARDSON: Let me think. The prom was held in the gymnasium.
MR. HUNNICUTT: At the high school.
MS. RICHARDSON: At the high school…
MR. HUNNICUTT: After graduation what happened to you? What did you do?
MS. RICHARDSON: I went to Florida with my aunt and uncle and they went every summer for a few weeks. And I came home and this man that I eventually married asked me to marry him. And I said, okay, not quite eighteen yet. No, I guess I had turned eighteen because that was in July and I believe I was in Florida in August.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What year was that?
MS. RICHARDSON: That was 1948. So I got married in November of '48.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now let me back up just a minute. In 1945 they dropped the bomb on Japan. Do you recall that event and where you were when you heard that?
MS. RICHARDSON: Oh I do. I was in Coeburn, Virginia. And I was sitting eating watermelon with these little friends that I knew there, my cousins. I was visiting my cousins. And somebody came out that had a little radio and said, “Oh, guess what,” and so we all hooped and hollered and so that was my memory.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did that--when you got back to Oak Ridge do you remember anything your parents said or anything about anything?
MS. RICHARDSON: Oh, well everybody was very excited and like my father--oh yes. My father in Stores said all these years, all this stuff had been coming in, gold and platinum and silver, all of this had been coming in and nothing going out, coming back to us to send out. And he said, guess what? This stuff was going out in the middle of the night in suitcases. I remember that so clearly. But then later here came all this Fort Knox stuff back out, the silver and the gold and everything back to where they had been pulled from.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now March of 1949 the city opened the gates to the outside world because the city was enclosed by gates and badges to get in.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What do you remember about that event?
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, we had movie stars and I guess the governor and I went to the opening. And it was just many, many people there. It was really exciting.
MR. HUNNICUTT: The gate opening at Elza.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah. And that--but that's all I remember.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you see the poof of the ribbon when it went off?
MS. RICHARDSON: I don’t remember it so I may not have.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall how you got out there?
MS. RICHARDSON: By car.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you attend the parade or see the parade when they had it?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Where were you standing when that was…
MS. RICHARDSON: I don’t even know. Where was I? But I did see the parade.
MR. HUNNICUTT: There was a lot of people at the parade, wasn't there?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah, and I'm not--I guess I was on the Turnpike. I don't know. I hadn't thought of that ever.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember some of the movies stars that were here?
MS. RICHARDSON: No. the names at the time I knew but I don’t think I've even thought about them in 50 years.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember Jack Bailey host for “Queen for a Day”?
MS. RICHARDSON: Oh yes, I remember him.
MR. HUNNICUTT: He was in the parade.
MS. RICHARDSON: Was he?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall listening to that radio program?
MS. RICHARDSON: I do.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did your mother when she was at home listen to the radio a lot?
MS. RICHARDSON: No.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember any other radio programs you listened to?
MS. RICHARDSON: Sometimes I get mixed up about when but there was one of music of the week.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Oh, was it put on by Lucky Strikes cigarettes?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes I was and…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. “Top Hits” or something like that.
MS. RICHARDSON: “Top Hits”, something like that. Oh, and oh gosh, from childhood on it was the “Green Hornet”, the creaking--what's that, creaking door where you--something scary was going to be happening. Those were kinds of things that…
MR. HUNNICUTT: “The Shadow”…
MS. RICHARDSON: “The Shadow”, yes, all those.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you read comic books when you were growing up?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes. I think Super Man.
MR. HUNNICUTT: “Lone Ranger” probably…
MS. RICHARDSON: “Lone Ranger” and I listened to the “Lone Ranger” on the radio. And but that's it. I can't--there wasn't--there weren't comic books like Marvel or anything then.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, in those days that was entertainment.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, it was. I mean that's what we had.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you ever attend the American Museum of Atomic Energy down at Jefferson?
MS. RICHARDSON: Oh yes. I was there a number of times.
MR. HUNNICUTT: It opened the same weekend that the gates opened as well.
MS. RICHARDSON: Oh, is that right?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes.
MS. RICHARDSON: Oh wait, wait, wait. You said--ask that again. I jumped to the…
MR. HUNNICUTT: The American Museum of Atomic Energy.
MS. RICHARDSON: So…
MR. HUNNICUTT: It was down at Jefferson, in the old Jefferson Cafeteria building across from where the Skating Rink--remember the Skating Rink? Now it wasn't uncommon for people that lived in the east end of town not to go to the west end and vice versa. I mean you had your sections of town that serviced you and a lot of people stayed in those sections of town.
MS. RICHARDSON: Right. I lived in the west end for three months with my new husband in one of the apartments that used to be dormitories but I don’t recall that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Let's jump ahead. What is your husband's name?
MS. RICHARDSON: It was Everett Gordon Richardson and everybody called him “Rich” because that's what his name, what they called him in the Marines.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What made you live in Oak Ridge?
MS. RICHARDSON: What made me…
MR. HUNNICUTT: When you married him…
MS. RICHARDSON: Oh, after we married, because he had a job at X-10. He was in the--well, they worked with cobalt. That’s all I know. That's all I remember.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, in those days they didn't talk about their jobs.
MS. RICHARDSON: No.
MR. HUNNICUTT: No one talked about their job. So you lived in the first home was the dormitory on the west end.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember what vicinity the dormitory was in?
MS. RICHARDSON: It was on that first hill off the Turnpike.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Off the first hill off the Turnpike…
MS. RICHARDSON: Well…
[Background Talk]
MS. RICHARDSON: That isn't familiar to me.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Would it be on the left or right?
MS. RICHARDSON: I said the first hill. Okay, when you--it would be on the right and it was maybe it's probably gone now. It may have been in the vicinity, isn't there a funeral home along there now?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Oh, that would be in Jefferson Circle.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah. It was along in that vicinity.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes. There was a lot of dormitories there.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: The Skating Rink was right there as well as the museum.
MS. RICHARDSON: Okay.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah.
MS. RICHARDSON: Now, isn't that interesting? I must never have gone in the museum then. I thought you were saying the one that's there now.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That relocated museum [inaudible] museum.
MS. RICHARDSON: I may not have. Although I was in the--now wait a minute. Yes, I was.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you get radiated dime? Do you remember?
MS. RICHARDSON: No, I don’t remember that. but yes, it was in a building up off West Outer Drive?
MR. HUNNICUTT: No, that's the Children's Museum.
MS. RICHARDSON: Oh okay, that's the one I went to.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That's in the old Highland View school.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah, Highland View School, right. Okay, I guess I never did go there.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. So where was the next home that you and your husband lived?
MS. RICHARDSON: Then we moved to Arrowwood in west--in the east end of town in a little two bedroom flattop and we lived there for a couple of years, maybe three. And my first child was born while we lived there. And then we moved to Newcomb Road.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And what was your first child's name?
MS. RICHARDSON: Michael.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And then Oak Ridge Hospital.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah
MR. HUNNICUTT: And what year was that?
MS. RICHARDSON: That was in September of '49.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now do you recall what a flattop looked like inside?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, very much. I walked up these steps. It had a little wood steps and then there was a little wooden porch you might say, and you opened the front door and there was this room, and off the room to the right was a kitchen. And then--but straight ahead was a little entry into two bedrooms. The bathroom was on the right of--I guess at the end of what you'd call the kitchen but opening up in that little area where the bedrooms were.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was the house furnished?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes. And we bought the furniture when they sold them, when they sold the furniture.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And you moved from there to where?
MS. RICHARDSON: To Newcomb…
MR. HUNNICUTT: That's off of New York Avenue.
MS. RICHARDSON: Uh-huh
MR. HUNNICUTT: What type of house was that?
MS. RICHARDSON: It was an A house.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What's the difference in an A and a flattop?
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, it was more a little upscale as the way they built it but it was no bigger really or hardly any bigger. It had the two bedrooms, the bathroom, the living room, which had a little--which was the dining area in the living room, and a kitchen, a small, narrow kitchen by the furnace room.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Still heated by coal…
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, still heated by coal.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you have any more children?
MS. RICHARDSON: I had--then I had three more, two daughters and another son.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And their names are?
MS. RICHARDSON: Jorjan Pace Richardson, and Elizabeth Garland Richardson, and Wade Bransford Richardson. My daughters married but they--when they divorced they reverted to their maiden names.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now were all your children born in Oak Ridge Hospital?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you feel like the Oak Ridge Hospital was really upscale in those days?
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, I had no idea but I would have no complaints. I had none at all. I know that with the first child they kept me nine days but they kept everybody nine days then but by the time ten years later when Wade was born they only kept you five days.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now your children went through the Oak Ridge school system.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, they did, all the way.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall when they went through the system how the curriculum might have been any better or the same than when you went through it?
MS. RICHARDSON: No, I don’t remember.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was the dress for girls still the same in those days?
MS. RICHARDSON: No, it was very casual, you might call--that was during the hippy days, no bras at times and you know, things like that when they were in high school.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Everybody thought about peace and love in those days.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah, peace and love and they…
MR. HUNNICUTT: That would have been in, what, the early ‘70s?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah. And their hair was down to their waist and parted in the middle. I mean you've seen pictures of…
MR. HUNNICUTT: And as a parent how did you accept that culture?
MS. RICHARDSON: It didn't bother me. I was rather bohemian in my attire and my affect and I wasn't that way in high school but as through the years that's what happened. And my oldest son, I'll have to tell you this, when he was seventeen he had what was just an average haircut now but his hair came down to here, to below his ears. And he was one of the ushers at our church, the First Presbyterian Church. And two little ladies were sitting behind me one Sunday and here he came down with his plaid pants and a different kind of jacket and that hair, and here he came down to get the offering. And the one of the little ladies said, “I just can't believe that they let something like that serve us in the church.” And I turned around and I said, “Isn't it wonderful? He's my son.”
MR. HUNNICUTT: What did the--where did--what did you do after you married and you had your kids for family fun in those days?
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, we went swimming in the summer.
MR. HUNNICUTT: The movie theater…
MS. RICHARDSON: And we went to the movies and the children went to camp…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Like what type of camp did they go to?
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, Boy Scout camp and Campfire Girls, that kind of--those camps. And…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall doctors making house calls in those days?
MS. RICHARDSON: At the very beginning they did but not--I don't recall any after the very beginning.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now you--and I'm sure your mother when she washed her clothes hung them out on the clotheslines outside.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That was--let nature do the drying.
MS. RICHARDSON: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: When did you move out of Oak Ridge?
MS. RICHARDSON: In '75, '74 late '74, early '75
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember the Downtown section, the new section they built, and all the wonderful stores we used to have? Which we don't have any more.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah, I know.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Over all the years that you've been living what's the most amazing thing you think you've ever seen or know about.
MS. RICHARDSON: In Oak Ridge…
MR. HUNNICUTT: No, anything…
MS. RICHARDSON: Anywhere…gosh. Well, in 1995 I retired from Maryville College and that summer I took four and a half months of travel, tent camping, across the United States. And went from here to the southern part of California but not as far south as Los Angeles. But I went to the Pacific Coast and up the coast into Vancouver and Vancouver Island and Victoria, and I saw--and then back across Calgary and down. I saw so much in our country that I could not believe that I had gone all those years without going past the Mississippi River. And so what sticks in my mind is when I got to the Grand Canyon and we walked up to the Rim, and you don’t see anything until you get to the Rim, or I couldn't at that time. And I immediately burst into tears. It was so overwhelming to me. Now, I don't know if that is the most or not but that's what popped into my mind just then. I have seen so much wonderful things and experienced so many wonderful things in our country. I've been to England for four weeks, and that was exciting. But our country is unbelievable.
MR. HUNNICUTT: How would you describe living in Oak Ridge during the time you lived there?
MS. RICHARDSON: It was wonderful. I can--I would never be one to say I didn't really like Oak Ridge. I couldn't say it. That would never cross my mind to say that. I loved it. It was freedom. I didn't feel restricted from the way I wanted to live and yet I was very traditional until I got my divorce and then I started UT and got my degrees and that sort of thing. And in the late ‘60s and the ‘70s came and my children were influencing me in many ways in their--not that I liked everything that they were doing or--but I think that we were able to live with more freedom in Oak Ridge than we would have in our hometown without being looked as being different. I think of Kingsport as very traditional. But I haven't been there so they may have changed too.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Is there anything we haven't talked about that comes to mind you would like to say?
MS. RICHARDSON: There's one little thing. Back in high school, and I thought about it just a little while back here, and we went past it that time. But one of the things that we did that was dangerous but we didn't think about danger as seniors in high school, was on the road to X-10 there was a quarry and we went swimming there every weekend. And we were never caught or told we couldn’t. And I understand now that they keep that quarry locked up. And so that was one of the things.
MR. HUNNICUTT: It's been my pleasure to interview you and I really appreciate you letting us come into your home today and take this interview and so our viewers-to-be can see how your life was in Oak Ridge in…
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, I hope it works out well so that it will interest people.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, Oak Ridge is an interesting town. There'll never be another one like it. It's very difficult to explain this to people that have never lived there.
MS. RICHARDSON: That's true and the tennis court dances, I mean all of the things that we had there you didn’t have in other towns.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now there's like--I understand there was probably about three women to every man in Oak Ridge and…
MS. RICHARDSON: Oh yes. I mean we were dancing together.
MR. HUNNICUTT: It was a continuous party, wasn't it?
MS. RICHARDSON: It was. You could look at it that way and enjoy this town.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And it was safe too.
MS. RICHARDSON: And it was safe, that was the main I believe, it was safe.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, thank you again for your interview.
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, thank you for asking me.
[End of Interview]
[Editor’s Note: Portions of this transcript have been edited at Ms. Richardson’s request. The corresponding audio and video components have remained unchanged.]

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ORAL HISTORY OF JANE RICHARDSON
Interviewed by Don Hunnicutt
Filmed by BBB Communications, LLC.
January 21, 2014
MR. HUNNICUTT: This interview is for the Center of Oak Ridge Oral History. The date is January 21st, 2014. I am Don Hunnicutt in the home of Jane Richardson, 543 Dry Valley Road, Townsend, Tennessee, to take her oral history about living in Oak Ridge, Tennessee. Jane please state your full name including your maiden name and place of birth and date please.
MS. RICHARDSON: All right. It's Jane Garland Richardson. I was born in Kingsport, Tennessee in 1930, July 31st actually of 1930. And what was the other…?
MR. HUNNICUTT: That was it. Will you state your father's name and place of birth if you recall?
MS. RICHARDSON: Jack Warren Garland and he was born in North Carolina in a little town, Mortimer, North Carolina.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall the date?
MS. RICHARDSON: 1905.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Okay. Your mother's name, maiden name, and place of birth if you recall.
MS. RICHARDSON: Martha Potter Garland and she was born in Smithville, Tennessee and it was in 1904.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Your grandfather's name and place of birth on your father's side.
MS. RICHARDSON: He was William Ezekiel Garland and they called him big Zeke because he was six foot eight inches tall, big guy. And he was from the same area, Little Rock Creek, Mitchell County, North Carolina, born in 1872.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall your grandmother on that side, her name?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, Florence Banner Garland, and Banner Elk was named after her grandfather and brothers, who settled it. She was born in 1882 in Mitchell County, Sugar Mountain, North Carolina.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What about on your mother's side of the family?
MS. RICHARDSON: I'll tell you, that I'm not quite as sure of. My grandmother was Ida Belle Wade Potter and she was from Smithville. Her birth date was 1875.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What about your grandfather on that side?
MS. RICHARDSON: His name was George Harrison, George Harrison Potter and he was from DeKalb County, Tennessee, and was born in 1871. That’s really all I know. He died at age 40 so I never met him.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Your father's schooling, what do you remember about his schooling?
MS. RICHARDSON: My father's…?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes.
MS. RICHARDSON: He had two years at Appalachian State College I think it was called then. It's Appalachian State University now. And then he decided that he wanted to travel out west with his brother-in-law and they had a wonderful time instead of college.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What about your mother's schooling?
MS. RICHARDSON: My mother--when my grandfather Potter died, my grandmother could not support the family with all the children she had which was seven. And so they went to a school down in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. It was a Presbyterian school for half orphans in the sense that one parent was still alive. And so she was a little girl and that's where she went and she graduated from there in high school and that was her schooling.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall what the home place looked like when you were growing up?
MS. RICHARDSON: Well…
MR. HUNNICUTT: And where was that by the way…?
MS. RICHARDSON: In Kingsport, I lived my first five years on Watauga Avenue in an apartment and then moved to a little white house with my grandmother. This was right after the Depression hit. And there was my grandmother, two aunts, my mother, and then a third aunt who was crippled. And two of my brothers and I lived there until we were--I think I was seven maybe when we moved--my mother moved the children and herself to a little village outside Kingsport where we went to school for two years. And then let's see, my father in the meantime was off in--you know, you went where you could to get work and so when he was able to come back and started with Tennessee Eastman, and I should say again because he had worked with them before, we moved to Bristol Highway.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You mentioned sisters, do you have brothers and sisters?
MS. RICHARDSON: No, I have three brothers.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Okay. What are their names?
MS. RICHARDSON: Dan--Warren Garland is the oldest and he's 85 and then I was next and Richard and Tom and I came to Oak Ridge with my parents. My oldest brother did not. He went to help out the grandparents. And Richard was born in 1932 and Tommy was born in '34.
MR. HUNNICUTT: When you were living in Kingsport tell me about schooling, what do you remember about going to school and what type of school house was it?
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, my first school was a little--I don't know how many rooms were in it but it was just the first and second grade. And I would say there were probably 25 children in each class. And that's about all I remember about it except that I was smacked on the hand by a teacher because I was not paying attention. But the second school I went to in Kingsport was then Washington and it was third through fifth. And then there was another one on Bristol Highway and I honestly do not remember the name of it. But then I went to junior high. And that was seventh and eighth grade and Jefferson I think was the name of that school. But I'm not sure. And we moved from there while I was in the eighth grade.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, back to your third through the fifth grade, was there a lot of children in school in those days when you went?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes. Washington was in an area that had both very wealthy people and the children and the middle class and the very, very poor. And that's all I remember about it.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What was the typical dress for a girl going to school in those days?
MS. RICHARDSON: In junior high, or…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, in elementary as junior high.
MS. RICHARDSON: Of course, it was a skirt and bobby socks.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And you referred to bobby socks, what is that?
MS. RICHARDSON: That was just little socks and shoes like an oxford or--what were they called--saddle oxfords.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now is that a lace up type shoe or slip on?
MS. RICHARDSON: It's a lace up shoe.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did the school have a heating system in the middle of the school room or did they--do you recall that?
MS. RICHARDSON: No, it seemed to--I don't recall that. So I think that both the one first and second and third through fifth were heated by a coal system probably.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you have a lot of homework or do you remember when you were in elementary school?
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, I think we did most of our work in school in the first and second grade and the third through fifth I do remember bringing paper home to work on.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you like school?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, uh-huh.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember any of your teacher's names?
MS. RICHARDSON: I remember the one who slapped my hand, Miss Barnes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. Now when you got to junior high what do you remember different than from elementary school?
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, we were--although a seventh grader was still the underdog. You had to be an eighth grader to really be considered grown up. But the courses were much harder. Math in the sixth grade and the elementary school was the beginning of really hard classes. And by the seventh grade I'm not a--I wasn't a math student. And so when I say they were hard that's because I couldn't learn fractions. And that's what I remember about it. So I had to go to summer school to get the fractions. And so I would say it was probably a pretty stiff curriculum.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What was your favorite subjects in school?
MS. RICHARDSON: Always literature…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember some of your teachers in junior high?
MS. RICHARDSON: No
MR. HUNNICUTT: In junior high did you have a physical education program that you remember?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What did that consist of?
MS. RICHARDSON: Usually in the gym, and we would play--not volleyball. It might have been a little form of basketball and then exercises.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you like gym?
MS. RICHARDSON: Uh-uh. No, sorry about that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, what was the typical summer like when you were in junior high between school grades?
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, I had one friend across the street and we did a lot of things together at our homes. We didn't go places a lot. But when we did go we'd walk. Like if we went to movies it might have been a mile and a half or two away to the theater but we walked. And one of the things in junior high, I told my father that a lot of my friends would stop by the drug store after school and get a Coke or something, and I didn't have any money. And so he had an account there and he told them to let me come in and charge something. So one day the pharmacist called my father and said, “Jack, I don't think you know what your daughter's doing. She is buying everybody their drink during the day.” So anyway, that was…
MR. HUNNICUTT: You probably had a lot of friends that way.
MS. RICHARDSON: I did have a lot of friends until that stopped.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Tell me what you remember inside that drug store looked like.
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, it had little tables along the windows in front. I can remember that. And then across from that was this bar which was the pharmacist. And the pharmacist, I mean I'm assuming or maybe his assistant, was the one who mixed our drinks and we would have milkshakes and Coca-Cola. That was pretty much it. I'm sure there were other things but that's pretty much what we did.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember how much that cost?
MS. RICHARDSON: I think the Cokes were five dollars and the milkshakes I'm not sure but--I'm sorry, not five dollars, five cents. Oh man! And…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Probably five dollars today.
MS. RICHARDSON: Right, it could have been. And I think probably the milkshakes were ten cents.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So was that a habit every day of stopping at the drug store?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, it was until it was stopped.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So how long would you stay at the drugstore before you went home?
MS. RICHARDSON: We couldn't stay long, of course. No more than an hour. But it was a good social time.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So what did you do after your father stopped you from buying everybody drinks?
MS. RICHARDSON: I don't recall. I really don't.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did your mother work any outside of the home?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, she did.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What did she do?
MS. RICHARDSON: When she--for years--in fact that's how my father met her she was a receptionist at Tennessee Eastman and then she became the supervisor, I guess you would call it, of the switchboard and so she was switchboard operator. And then they got married and she continued, yeah. And in between having all of us four children.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall what type of work your father did at Tennessee Eastman.
MS. RICHARDSON: He did a number of things that I don’t remember. I mean little--when he first came there, I'm not sure. But he mainly was a timber buyer.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I see. Now why did your family come to Oak Ridge?
MS. RICHARDSON: Eastman came and they asked my father to come.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So they was recruiting people…
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, from their plant in Kingsport.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember what year that might have been?
MS. RICHARDSON: That was '43.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And when your father decided to come do you recall your mother's reaction to that?
MS. RICHARDSON: No, I don’t. I know the family was a little upset because this was first time anybody moved away. And we were a very close community of family. And for instance, I would hop from house to house. I mean it wasn't--I could go to my aunt's and stay a couple of weeks without anybody thinking anything about it. But he came--I think it was October of '43 when he came and the reason we did not come at that time was because there were no houses. And so he was on the list. And we received--we were given an F house which was, as I got older, I thought, “My gosh this is weird because this is the house in Oak Ridge.” And somebody like Weinberg for instance had a B house. He had two boys. My father had put down three boys and one girl because at the time he thought our oldest brother was coming too. And that's how we got an F house.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, now your oldest brother, Dan, where did he live?
MS. RICHARDSON: He lived in Erwin, Tennessee.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And when your mother and the rest of your kids came to Oak Ridge how did you get there?
MS. RICHARDSON: Okay. We came by bus, the first part of January '44. Our house was almost completed and we came by bus and my father and a driver from Oak Ridge met us, picked us up at the bus station, and drove us to Oak Ridge-raining furiously the whole time. I think it rained that first year every day. But anyway, we came through heavy rain, and it took forever it seemed because the--I think the mileage--we had to go through Clinton and it was probably 35 miles an hour speed limit sort of thing. So it took us some time. And we got to Elza Gate. You want to hear that?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Sure.
MS. RICHARDSON: I mean there's nothing exciting about it except we had to get out of the car and they went through everything, so.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, when you rode the bus you came to Knoxville….
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And then…
MS. RICHARDSON: And then that's where she picked us up. The driver was a woman. She was the one who did this all the time. And…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was she wearing--was in a uniform of any sort?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes. Well, sort of in a sense. I think it was her hat. Yeah, sort of like a taxi driver I guess.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So what type of work did your father do when he came to Oak Ridge?
MS. RICHARDSON: He was at that point I'm not exactly sure because it was a job before his permanent job and I'm not--I really can't tell you what it was. But when he did get into his permanent job it was in what they call Stores. Now what do we call it today where stuff comes in and stuff goes out?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Shipping and Receiving…
MS. RICHARDSON: Shipping and Receiving, thank you, but they called it Stores. And he was--he worked himself up to a supervisor of Stores through the years.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was that at Y-12?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, at Y-12.
MR. HUNNICUTT: It just dawned on me I knew your father at Y-12, knew--I'm not sure I met him but the name just now rings a bell.
MS. RICHARDSON: Is that right?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes.
MS. RICHARDSON: Is that right, Jack Garland?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, that is wonderful.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes. So the driver, which is unusual for someone to be picked up by a driver unless there was someone up the ladder of command, you know.
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, the reason I think is we had no car and you know, there was--my father had no car. I don’t know how that happened.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, maybe that was the reason why then.
MS. RICHARDSON: It may be.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did he ride the bus down into Oak Ridge like…
MS. RICHARDSON: I don't know.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Uh-huh. Now when you--when the lady driver picked you up and you stopped at Elza Gate and got out, was it still raining?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was there any way of being out of the rain or would you just stand out in the rain?
MS. RICHARDSON: No, I think we went in a little building and…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Waited there while they searched the car.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah, and I think it had something to do with giving us a pass that one was there waiting for us. I think that was it.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So then where did you go from Elza Gate?
MS. RICHARDSON: We went to our house.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And where was that located?
MS. RICHARDSON: On--off Delaware Avenue, on 103 West Damascus Road. And what was not finished was our porch but the interior of the house, the basic house…
MR. HUNNICUTT: The back porch…
MS. RICHARDSON: No, it was the side porch.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That goes into the kitchen area.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes. And it was the basic house was finished and I thought about this the other night. I think that we must have had all of our furnishings shipped in earlier because I do not--as I remember when we went in the house had everything there, not in place but it was in the house so that we could sleep there that night.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember your mother's reaction when she saw the new home place?
MS. RICHARDSON: Oh she liked it. Yeah. My mother was--she was a very relaxed sort of person in things of change. She had had a lot of changes in her life and so it didn't--nothing really upset her that much. If it did she did not let us children know it.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, what about you and your two brothers, do you remember?
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, at first it was really a shock and the main person who was affected was my Aunt Georgia in Kingsport who I had spent I would say many years of living with her off and on. And she was really upset. She wanted me to stay with her and her husband. And Mama and Daddy said, “No, if we do we've lost her.”
MR. HUNNICUTT: You would have been about what, 13 or so…
MS. RICHARDSON: 13, I was 13.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What do you remember how it looked, the time you left Elza Gate till you got to the house on Damascus?
MS. RICHARDSON: I don’t really remember much about that. What I remember is the next day and looking out and seeing the street above us. They were building the houses, the street above that had the framework. I mean the one above us, things were pretty much on the outside looked good. The one above that was framework. The one above that was the foundation, and above that there was nothing. I mean it was weekly.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Construction activity around the clock.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes. It was.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So what time of year was that?
MS. RICHARDSON: That was January, the first part of January.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall was the weather cold?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah. Well, it was mainly I recall rain and that's--I don’t recall whether it was a cold, cold winter or not. I just remember rain.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did the house have a wooden sidewalk or do you remember?
MS. RICHARDSON: Up the front steps it had wooden steps going up to the front door. And I don’t believe we got--we had gravel maybe from the--I don't know, it couldn’t have been.
MR. HUNNICUTT: The streets were probably still muddy, weren’t they?
MS. RICHARDSON: Oh yes, the mud. You never forget that. You never forget it.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was--did the house have heat in it when you guys got there?
MS. RICHARDSON: We had coal, coal furnace.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What do you recall about over the years how you got the coal to the house?
MS. RICHARDSON: A truck came by.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And where did they put the coal, do you remember?
MS. RICHARDSON: In a little, not shed, but a little box outside. And you went out and got the coal and shoveled it into the furnace.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now the next day when you got up and you looked out and saw this construction what was your thoughts? Do you remember what that was like?
MS. RICHARDSON: I don’t remember what my thoughts were really but I was so anxious about school, changing the school, and meeting new people. I was not someone who--a child who just popped into things. And so it was scary for me.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember how you got to school or what were first day and where did you go to school the first day?
MS. RICHARDSON: I went to Elm Grove.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And that would have been what grade?
MS. RICHARDSON: That was the eighth grade, the second part of the eighth grade.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And do you recall how you got to school?
MS. RICHARDSON: By bus.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So it had probably been--I wonder how it was set up that you were enrolled in school because everything was so new, do you think your father took care of that or do you recall?
MS. RICHARDSON: I can remember going into the office and letting them know I was there. and then they took me to the room I was to be in.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now when you caught the bus did the bus come by the house or did you have to walk down…
MS. RICHARDSON: No. I walked--West Damascus was a circle and there was East--on the other side of Delaware was East Damascus. We were West Damascus. And so I had to walk up to the corner and they stopped any time--at any corner, any street that they saw a child the bus would stop and you would get on. And that's where we got the reputation of muddy shoes because there was nothing to walk on except mud practically. I lost my--I did. I was one of those who lost a shoe.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now Elm Grove was the first elementary school built…
MS. RICHARDSON: Was it?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes. And I presume that's the reason you went to Elm Grove living on Damascus.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah, well it was close.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, it's not too far away.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah
MR. HUNNICUTT: But that was the first one. So what do you remember the first day you went in the office and told them you were there and then what do you remember?
MS. RICHARDSON: And meeting my teacher. Her name was Mrs. Anderson. She was a little short pretty red head. And her personality was such that it just sort of put you at ease. I think that that was maybe one of the reasons she had been hired because of her personality. And she introduced me. Oh, she didn't just introduce me, she--all the kids came in and she introduced all of us. And that first day we didn't do anything really except get the idea of what we would be doing. I don't know why I remember all of this.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, it's good that you do.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah. Isn't that interesting?
MR. HUNNICUTT: There was a lot of different kids in the class from different places of the country, wasn't there?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, and some I couldn't understand. It was really funny and I know they couldn't understand me either. And we were all from the United States.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So as the school day progressed what else do you remember how it went?
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, you just got to where you got into it like you would coming from the elementary school to junior high in Kingsport. You know, you just got into the system. That's as well as I can say.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And what was your next school you attended in Oak Ridge?
MS. RICHARDSON: Oak Ridge High School--at that time they had the ninth grade.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I see. And where was the high school located?
MS. RICHARDSON: Up on the top of the hill above Town Site.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And what do you recall the difference in going to the high school than where you were going before?
MS. RICHARDSON: I didn't go to high school in Kingsport.
MR. HUNNICUTT: No, I mean from the eighth grade to the ninth grade.
MS. RICHARDSON: Oh, I see. Excuse me. I think that was exciting the thought of growing up maybe and I met--I can't really recall how I met people but there was no problem at making friends and being part of the class because I guess we all were in the same boat.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, everybody was new.
MS. RICHARDSON: Everybody was new.
MR. HUNNICUTT: They hadn't developed all those bad habits, did they?
MS. RICHARDSON: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now when you attended high school in Jackson Square how did you get to school, ride the bus as well?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, how did you know which bus to get on to go to the high school, do you remember?
MS. RICHARDSON: No. I don’t. I just know that the bus came down. They stopped for me and I went to school.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now did you get on the bus at the same place you did when you went to the eighth grade?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, uh-huh.
MR. HUNNICUTT: When you went to the high school what type of classes do you recall you took?
MS. RICHARDSON: I took--okay, I took English and math, algebra, and biology and what would have been another basic, but they were the basic courses. There were four.
MR. HUNNICUTT: English and math and biology and…
MS. RICHARDSON: English, math, biology and
MR. HUNNICUTT: Probably, maybe world history or something.
MS. RICHARDSON: Maybe something--yeah, history. I'm sure it was history.
MR. HUNNICUTT: History of some sort.
MS. RICHARDSON: Uh-huh.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did--thinking back was the school system in Kingsport harder or easier than the Oak Ridge system? Do you remember?
MS. RICHARDSON: Oh, no, I don't. But I--because I didn't know what high school would be like in Kingsport I had no comparison there. The eighth grade I don’t remember whether it was harder or not.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember some of your teachers in high school?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes. As a matter of fact, I can bring up their names. Geez! I can see them, Ms. Holbert, Stansberry…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Ms. Mar…
MS. RICHARDSON: Mars, I did not have her and I always wish I had because I think if I had I would have been able to do my math.
MR. HUNNICUTT: She was noted to be a great math teacher.
MS. RICHARDSON: Oh yes. I failed algebra the first year and had to take it again.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You know, it's --math, if you don’t get the formulas and catch on right away you get lost real quick.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, you do.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I became good in math after that but…
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, what happened I had four algebra teachers that, okay, I'm remembering some things of the ninth grade. We had a big shift in teachers in some classes. And that was one of them. And when you have that many changes I think you would have to really be into algebra or math of any sort to do anything with it. So I assume that's why I failed it.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you take any music classes while you were in high school?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, I did with Mr. Scarborough…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Scarborough…
MS. RICHARDSON: Uh-huh, and it was not an instrument class. It was a music theory.
MR. HUNNICUTT: He later became the principal of the high school many years later.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes. I think so.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And led the band I believe as well.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now you had a physical education program in the high school.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, that's right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall what girls did in those days in physical education?
MS. RICHARDSON: I guess sort of the same thing, we played basketball and we ran track, and that's about…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember who your gym teacher was?
MS. RICHARDSON: No, I can see her face. Isn't that awful, you lose the name but you can see the visual?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Does Mrs. Gottshall come to mind?
MS. RICHARDSON: Who?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Gottshall…
MS. RICHARDSON: No.
MR. HUNNICUTT: She was--maybe that was later at the high school, but…
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah. No, this one she was--she had blonde hair and it was cut short and I don't--you know, it's strange…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now there was something unique in the high school gym. It's kind of different than you'll ever see in schools today that kept the boys on one side and the girls on the other. Do you remember that?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: The curtain that was pulled across the center.
MS. RICHARDSON: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you know, was Ben Martin the high school coach at that time?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes he was at the beginning.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did--in those days did you have to take showers in physical education?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, and it was very difficult for me because I had never undressed in front of anybody except my mother.
MR. HUNNICUTT: It was that way with boys too.
MS. RICHARDSON: Was it?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes. That's a real culture shock, isn't it?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And if I remember right, didn't it have little baskets you were supposed to put your personal clothes in.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And you had gym clothes that you were supposed to wear.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes. Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now basketball for girls in those days was played a whole lot different than it is today.
MS. RICHARDSON: It was, and I didn't--and I had injured myself in basketball in the seventh grade or maybe, it might have been the fall of the eighth grade before I came to Oak Ridge. I fell and hit my tailbone and cracked it. And so I mean that was painful. And so I was very hesitant in basketball after that. Otherwise I think I would have been a good player.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, do you remember how the game was played in those days?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, but I'm not--I can't tell you how it was played. I just know that women could only go so far and then some other group took over or something. Does that make sense?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes.
MS. RICHARDSON: Okay.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, you was designated in an area that you could play in and then other team had to play in the other area sort of like half-court basketball or something.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, and I was so excited. I can remember being excited when it changed.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you like running track?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes. I was pretty good at that. I did not do the jumping over the…
MR. HUNNICUTT: The hurdles…
MS. RICHARDSON: …the hurdles. But I ran and I was pretty good. And I did the long jump--no.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Broad jump.
MS. RICHARDSON: The broad jump--thank you.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So you were on the track team or you did that just in physical…
MS. RICHARDSON: I think that was just in the gym, gymnasium type of--I mean our PE program.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What was the dress like for a high school girl?
MS. RICHARDSON: Bobby socks--I remember the saddle oxfords. Now this was--I'm trying to think. No, even my junior and senior pictures I had that kind of thing. Our skirts would go up and down but not too far up. But…
MR. HUNNICUTT: You mean the length of the skirt.
MS. RICHARDSON: The length of the skirt, oh Lord yes, the length would go up and down in length and we wore sweaters.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Tell me about hoop skirts.
MS. RICHARDSON: Oh yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Poodle skirts, maybe that's what it's called.
MS. RICHARDSON: Poodle skirts, they were called poodle skirts, and I wasn’t fond of those. I'm not--I've surely had one because you wanted to be in style, so. But I wasn't one who enjoyed dressing like that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now what type of hair style did girls wear in those days?
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, mine was long to my shoulders and sometimes I had it back but quite often bangs. Bangs seemed to be a style…
MR. HUNNICUTT: What about pony tails, was that in?
MS. RICHARDSON: And pony tails, we wore pony tails, and it all--what mine looked like during each day depended on whether I had washed my hair or not.
MR. HUNNICUTT: How much prep you wanted to do.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall how boy’s hair looked in those days?
MS. RICHARDSON: I believe those were the buzz cuts or was that too soon? I'm not sure when the buzz cuts started. Oh, some of them had longer hair. Yeah, yeah, the…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Dove tails…
MS. RICHARDSON: Dove tails…That--I'd almost forgot--I had forgotten that. But I even can tell you the name of a couple of guys, Zach Coffer [ph] had a dove--I mean he was the zoot sooter in high school.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What do you mean by zoot soot?
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, the jacket, the suit jacket, broad shoulders, and down to the waist, down to below the hips, and then these big trousers that bloomed out, and maybe they came in tight to the ankles. I believe that's what it looked like sort of.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So he'd be dressed like he's going to some kind of function but yet that'd be his everyday dress.
MS. RICHARDSON: But he'd be in high school. He'd be in school.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And were jeans popular as well for boys?
MS. RICHARDSON: For boys, not for girls. I don’t recall owning a pair of jeans at all.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So even when you weren't going to school you still wore a dress out to play or whatever you did.
MS. RICHARDSON: No, surely not. I must have had a pair of jeans.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Slacks of some sort.
MS. RICHARDSON: Slacks--yes, I don’t recall jeans but maybe slacks.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, you referred to as oxfords, were they different colored shoes.
MS. RICHARDSON: Brown and white.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And laced up and…
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah, yeah, they were called saddle oxfords I think.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember what type shoes boys used to wear?
MS. RICHARDSON: Uh-uh, no.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now your brothers, what school did they go to?
MS. RICHARDSON: They went to Elm Grove and then I believe--oh, let's see Richard, I think, came to the high school above Jackson Square but Tommy started high school at the new one.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did they attend the junior high at that time?
MS. RICHARDSON: They must have because …
MR. HUNNICUTT: It would be down at the old Robertsville School.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah
MR. HUNNICUTT: So your mother stayed at home and took care of the family at first?
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, after--when she first came she was in charge of the switchboard at Y-12 and then they decided that she just--she and Daddy decided it was better for her to be at home because of our ages. And we didn't have the support system in Oak Ridge that we had had at home where we had a maid and family. And so she quit. And then my memory is that she decided that since she wasn't working anymore the house was too big for us. I don’t understand that but I'm wondering if there was maybe a financial change or what, but we moved to a C house over off Kentucky and that was in--that must have been in '46.
MR. HUNNICUTT: During the summertime in between school years did you do any work or what did you do during the summertime? Lets' put it like that.
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, I would go back to Kingsport and spend the summer. That was…
MR. HUNNICUTT: With your Aunt…
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, that was the first and second year. Now when I was sixteen--yeah, I was sixteen, the Ridge Rec Hall was open and they had a restaurant in there at the time. And men who were there without their families would come there and eat. And anyway, I thought I'd like to have a little money and we lived right above the Chapel on the Hill. And so I got permission from my father to try this. And my brother would come after me. And I was the hit of the dining room because I was young. I smiled, you know, and these men, some of them were very lonely for home. I was never hit on is the new--the comment is now--ever. But my father got really nervous about it because I was coming home with wonderful tips. And so after three weeks he said, “No, you cannot do this.” So they sent me to Kingsport again.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Where was the Ridge Rec Hall located?
MS. RICHARDSON: It was right below the Alexander Hotel.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now was the Library under the Rec Hall, do you remember or was that later?
MS. RICHARDSON: That was later.
MR. HUNNICUTT: In the Rec Hall beside the eating facility did they have an area for dancing in?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, and they had a huge room we would--there would be bridge tournaments in there and parties and dancing but mainly bridge. That was my big memory. And so we, as high school students, would go there and in the dining area we could sit there with our Coca-Cola and play pinochle but that's where I learned to play bridge. And I loved bridge for years and I forgot how to play pinochle.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember how much money you made when you worked?
MS. RICHARDSON: No, no, I don't.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What type of food did you serve?
MS. RICHARDSON: Regular, probably canned things, I don't know, but it was regular food. I know hamburgers and it seemed to me that it would be a plate of vegetables and meat of some sort that the men would get. But those of us would get hamburgers or hot dogs.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What hours did you work?
MS. RICHARDSON: It would 6:00 to 10:00 I guess.
MR. HUNNICUTT: At night.
MS. RICHARDSON: Uh-huh, or maybe 5:00 to 10:00, and that’s what worried my father was that even though my brothers came, walked down, and met me to walk home with me it still was very nerve-racking for him.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now was there a lot of people--was that facility open 24 hours?
MS. RICHARDSON: I don't know about 24 but it was open--no, I don't believe so. There was another place down across Tennessee Avenue, Central…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Cafeteria…
MS. RICHARDSON: ….Cafeteria, and that was open 24 hours a day. And as seniors we were down there a lot too.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, the Wildcat Den was at the end of that.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah, because the Wildcat was at the other end of that cafeteria.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Speaking of, describe what the Wildcat Den looked like.
MS. RICHARDSON: Okay, you walked in, it was just one big room, and it was long and wood floors and nice windows, and the furniture was comfortable but not overstuffed or anything. But we played games in there too. And we danced. Now that's where we really got into dancing.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did they have a juke box?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yep, uh-huh.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember how much it cost to play the juke box?
MS. RICHARDSON: Uh-huh.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What type of music did you dance to?
MS. RICHARDSON: Jitterbug, oh my, we could win all kinds of contests we were so good. And it was people from other places didn't dance like we did. They were jitterbugging but we had our own style. And I think it was a combination of a number of different styles of the kids who came from different parts of the country. And we just sort of, I guess, mixed them together…
MR. HUNNICUTT: The Oak Ridge jitterbug.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah. It was wonderful.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, now did you do all of that where the guy gets the gal and slings her over his shoulder and all that kind of stuff.
MS. RICHARDSON: No, I was never slung over anybody's shoulder nor between their legs.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you have to pay for your drinks while you were there?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah, I'm sure we did.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Who was in charge of running the Wildcat Den?
MS. RICHARDSON: I wish I could remember his name. I can-there again, I can see him. What was his name?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Shep Lauder…
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, Shep Lauder….
MR. HUNNICUTT: He had the Wildcat Den until--for many, many years.
MS. RICHARDSON: He did.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You said you played games, what, Ping Pong, did you have Ping Pong in there?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, I'm pretty sure now. Sometimes I get mixed up in that sort of thing because we had Ping Pong at the Ridge Rec Hall and we played up there too.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was there a piano there as well?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: The only reason I know I've seen pictures of it.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah, yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember a particular automobile that had on the side of the door it had that atomic crush or something like that that…Atom Smasher, that's right, that was in a picture that Ed Westcott took out in front on Central Avenue. It had a bunch of kids in it? Were you involved in that in any way? Don Riley was the driver.
MS. RICHARDSON: Was he? Was he the driver?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah.
MS. RICHARDSON: It's pulling up a memory but…
MR. HUNNICUTT: “Calling All Girls,” do you remember--I think that was a magazine that it was part of that of some sort.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah, I don't remember.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, did you visit the Den about every day? Was that something after school that…
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah, pretty much, pretty much. And we also went to--at the other end of Jackson square where Big Ed's showed up, but it wasn't Big Ed's. He came much later.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Service Drug Store…
MS. RICHARDSON: Service Drug Store--thank you.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now what else do you remember in Jackson Square while we're talking about it?
MS. RICHARDSON: Okay. There was an A&P.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Where was that located?
MS. RICHARDSON: It was--unless I have my stores mixed up--at the part that's the square. It was on the left side. Was that the A&P or it was on…
MR. HUNNICUTT: That was the Community Store.
MS. RICHARDSON: That was Community--okay. A&P was down the long stretch. But anyway, I'll tell you something there that still sort of embarrasses me a little. But we were--it was during the--when we were rationed and had coupons and we had to take a number and get in line. And my mother sent me to the store for a half a pound of hamburger. And so I was in line and my number was called. And innocently I said, “Yes, I'd like a half a pound of hamburger. It's for my dog.” I thought I was going to be run out of that store. I had furious women saying awful things to me. But I didn't know. We didn't eat hamburger. It wasn't--it was just something we had never had but we'd give it to our dog. And…
MR. HUNNICUTT: I can imagine what was said.
MS. RICHARDSON: Oh man. It was awful. But so I learned never…
MR. HUNNICUTT: You mentioned you had a number. Do you recall how they--if you were standing in line outside the store did someone come out and give you a number or do you remember how that worked?
MS. RICHARDSON: It may be that we went in--I don’t recall ever being outside so I must have been there when the lines--I was able to be inside. But we went in and picked up a number I think and got in line. And so I imagine even if they were outside that's what they would have done but I don't know.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you get the hamburger?
MS. RICHARDSON: I got the hamburger. They gave it to me. I had the coupon or the ration ticket, whatever it was called.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you ever go back to the store for your mother after that?
MS. RICHARDSON: I was very cautious.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now what other stores do you remember being in Jackson Square?
MS. RICHARDSON: Millers, and…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now Millers was the department store.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah. And then Williams Drug and Samuel's they may have come later, not sure, but there was a shoe store, shoe repair, and, of course, the theater but now when did that come along? The years…
MR. HUNNICUTT: It was all at the same time.
MS. RICHARDSON: It was all when it--okay, and then over on the opposite side from the theater we had some sort of recreation in there because I could…
MR. HUNNICUTT: The Arcade building I believe they called it.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes. And there--I don't--it was--we'd dance. I mean I don’t remember. That may have been before the Wildcat Den set up.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I think it was.
MS. RICHARDSON: Uh-huh.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. Do you remember the bowling lanes, down, the bowling alley underneath that?
MS. RICHARDSON: I never went there but I knew they were there.
MR. HUNNICUTT: We were discussing about Jackson Square, did you ever go to the Center Theater?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall how much it cost to get in?
MS. RICHARDSON: No. My father paid because we didn't go to the movies except when it was just our family, so.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So the whole family went to the Center Theater.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What about the Ridge, did you attend…
MS. RICHARDSON: And the Ridge the same thing. If we went--no, the Ridge was later, wasn't it?
MR. HUNNICUTT: A little bit but not much.
MS. RICHARDSON: But not much. I'm not sure if my father would let us go by ourselves even then. I think I was maybe a senior before I went to a movie in Oak Ridge without my parents.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now the Service Drug Store was where Big Ed's is.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And they had a fountain, do you remember?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes. We would go there and hang out.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember getting cherry cokes? Did you ever get a cherry coke?
MS. RICHARDSON: I don't think so.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Sodas.
MS. RICHARDSON: I got sodas but I'm not sure that I ever got a cherry coke. Oh sometimes--let's see. When did I start getting floats, Coke floats? It might have been there. I don't know.
MR. HUNNICUTT: It sounds like that your father and your mother was pretty strict on you. Were they that way with your brothers?
MS. RICHARDSON: I don’t believe quite as strict. I really don't believe so. They were both--like Richard was--they called him “Froggy” and he was on the basketball team, you know, one of the top--the five. And so they were pretty much into sports. Tommy was a Golden Glove champ, little skinny fellow that he was but it was his weight. He was Golden Gloves champ. Dan was a big football player. So they were in a different--I got into pretty much a social group that I'm not sure I want to say this on that. It was the Penguin Club. And I really regret joining that. And when my daughters were years later in high school and they were pursued, and I said please don't. It changes your life. And they didn't.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Back to your high school days, did you date in high school?
MS. RICHARDSON: I think my junior year. I had a date to the prom. My senior year I did too. As far as--I did--yes, I did. There I dated a few fellows. And my father was very upset with me because two of the guys I dated had come back and were in school but they had gone into the Navy during the war. And so they were a little older. And he was not happy with that, my father wasn't. It was--and he shouldn't have been. I shouldn't have dated guys--they were say three or four years older. But they were in high school.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, now, what's the difference between your mother's age and your father's age when they got married do you recall?
MS. RICHARDSON: My mother was two years older than my father.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I see. Do you recall where you went on dates?
MS. RICHARDSON: Oh, places like the Ridge Rec Hall or out to the Grove theater, the Grove Center, and they had dances out there. They were all innocent places.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, how did you get to these on a date?
MS. RICHARDSON: These guys had cars.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I see. That was probably a good reason for your father to be…
MS. RICHARDSON: Right, very…
MR. HUNNICUTT: …strict.
MS. RICHARDSON: …very unsteady and I know once without permission, a friend of mine's boyfriend was a motorcyclist. In fact, he became a neurosurgeon or something like that, David Lane. Did you know David Lane.
MR. HUNNICUTT: No.
MS. RICHARDSON: Okay, anyway, he had a friend. Shafer [ph], and the friend didn't have a date and they wanted to go to Gatlinburg so she talked me into going with them. I had never been on a motorcycle and I did not ever want to be on one again. When I got home I guess a neighbor told my parents that I had gone off on a motorcycle. And I was in the house a few months not going anywhere.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I can imagine.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah. But I resisted everything. I mean I was just one of those who, I don't know, my brothers did everything just right and I was a different personality. Even from childhood it was that way.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember home milk delivery?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Tell me a little bit about what you remember about that.
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, we would leave--of course, we never locked doors and I don't think we ever had a key. But anyway we would leave the milk bottles outside and they would bring in if we left two milk bottles that meant we needed two milks. And they would come in and put it in the refrigerator.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Come in the house…
MS. RICHARDSON: In the house and put it in the refrigerator.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Whether there was anybody home or not did they still do that?
MS. RICHARDSON: I guess so. I just know that that's what they did.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did your family have a telephone in those days?
MS. RICHARDSON: Not in the beginning. And then when we did it was a party line and it was--I don't know how many people were on it and we were very thankful when the day came that we were given a private line. And I don’t remember when that happened.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now with a party line you can pick up and eaves drop on somebody's conversation couldn't you?
MS. RICHARDSON: Uh-huh. You sure could.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So you had to be careful what you said...
MS. RICHARDSON: That's right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: …with a party line neighbor to you.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What about do you ever remember what they call rolling stores or a truck that would come around and sell goods out of the back?
MS. RICHARDSON: Uh-huh.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Is that something that your mother bought from?
MS. RICHARDSON: I think we bought bread, Bunny Bread maybe, back. I'm not sure but we bought bread, and then there was the person who came, and I don't know if it was a rolling store or not. But it was like things like cleaning supplies.
MR. HUNNICUTT: [inaudible] man.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes. And the Fuller…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Fuller Brush…
MS. RICHARDSON: …Brush man, they…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Had a lot of door to door salesman, didn't they?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes. This was after--but now this was after the gates opened I think, yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was the city still pretty muddy when you were a senior in high school…
MS. RICHARDSON: Was it still pretty…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Pretty muddy or was it pretty much paved…
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah, but it wasn't as bad and then we had the boardwalks, and we walked like at the Elm Grove shopping center, we would walk down there and get a soda. And sometimes we'd walk--usually we'd walk to school because at some point we had the boardwalk through the woods so our house was very easy to go from our house up and down and around the greenbelt and down the hill and there was Elm Grove school. And so I'm not sure what happened with the buses.
MR. HUNNICUTT: When you worked at the Ridge Rec Hall, do you recall any dignitaries or anyone that later on we found out that was there was famous? Do you remember anybody coming in there?
MS. RICHARDSON: No. There were a lot of really nice men that we would see and look like they might be somebody or somebody's father. I mean, you know. but as far as knowing or suspecting, no, I don't recall any of that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now…
MS. RICHARDSON: I do know that some of my friends fathers were really way up there but I never knew it and I can't tell you which friends this happened but…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, the Ridge Rec Hall was right below the guest house which a lot of scientists stayed under assumed names…
MS. RICHARDSON: And that may be some of these men and they were working there but they were coming down from the Alexander Hotel.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And what year did you graduate?
MS. RICHARDSON: In '48.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And where did you have your graduation ceremonies?
MS. RICHARDSON: It was at the football field.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Outside.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah. I'm pretty sure.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Back during the Christmas times in Oak Ridge, what do you remember as being Christmas time in your family's house?
MS. RICHARDSON: You know, I don't really remember except that a number of years we would go to Kingsport for Christmas at my Aunt Georgia's and Uncle Harry's home and it was fabulous. I mean it was just wonderful food and huge tree, and all of the gifts and everything. But as far as in Oak Ridge, as many years as I lived there in childhood I don’t remember.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I'm going to mention a couple of places and tell me what you remember about them, Snow White Drive-In.
MS. RICHARDSON: It was down on the Turnpike. I didn’t go there often.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Is that a place for kids to kind of hang out or…
MS. RICHARDSON: I don't--I mean it wasn't in my thinking. Later after I was married maybe we'd go there for breakfast.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What about the Oak Ridge swimming pool?
MS. RICHARDSON: Oh yes. We were there. That was a fantastic pool. I have never seen anything like it, nor had anybody else. It was so big. And I loved it. I was there.
MR. HUNNICUTT: It has a unique thing about that pool. Do you remember about the water?
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, I think it was a spring.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And it's cold.
MS. RICHARDSON: And cold, oh very cold.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Still is.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You mentioned dancing at the Grove. Was that at the Grove Rec Hall?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Oak Terrace Ballroom there upstairs.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now did the high school have dances there? Was that where the prom was or where was the prom held?
MS. RICHARDSON: Let me think. The prom was held in the gymnasium.
MR. HUNNICUTT: At the high school.
MS. RICHARDSON: At the high school…
MR. HUNNICUTT: After graduation what happened to you? What did you do?
MS. RICHARDSON: I went to Florida with my aunt and uncle and they went every summer for a few weeks. And I came home and this man that I eventually married asked me to marry him. And I said, okay, not quite eighteen yet. No, I guess I had turned eighteen because that was in July and I believe I was in Florida in August.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What year was that?
MS. RICHARDSON: That was 1948. So I got married in November of '48.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now let me back up just a minute. In 1945 they dropped the bomb on Japan. Do you recall that event and where you were when you heard that?
MS. RICHARDSON: Oh I do. I was in Coeburn, Virginia. And I was sitting eating watermelon with these little friends that I knew there, my cousins. I was visiting my cousins. And somebody came out that had a little radio and said, “Oh, guess what,” and so we all hooped and hollered and so that was my memory.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did that--when you got back to Oak Ridge do you remember anything your parents said or anything about anything?
MS. RICHARDSON: Oh, well everybody was very excited and like my father--oh yes. My father in Stores said all these years, all this stuff had been coming in, gold and platinum and silver, all of this had been coming in and nothing going out, coming back to us to send out. And he said, guess what? This stuff was going out in the middle of the night in suitcases. I remember that so clearly. But then later here came all this Fort Knox stuff back out, the silver and the gold and everything back to where they had been pulled from.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now March of 1949 the city opened the gates to the outside world because the city was enclosed by gates and badges to get in.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What do you remember about that event?
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, we had movie stars and I guess the governor and I went to the opening. And it was just many, many people there. It was really exciting.
MR. HUNNICUTT: The gate opening at Elza.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah. And that--but that's all I remember.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you see the poof of the ribbon when it went off?
MS. RICHARDSON: I don’t remember it so I may not have.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall how you got out there?
MS. RICHARDSON: By car.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you attend the parade or see the parade when they had it?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Where were you standing when that was…
MS. RICHARDSON: I don’t even know. Where was I? But I did see the parade.
MR. HUNNICUTT: There was a lot of people at the parade, wasn't there?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah, and I'm not--I guess I was on the Turnpike. I don't know. I hadn't thought of that ever.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember some of the movies stars that were here?
MS. RICHARDSON: No. the names at the time I knew but I don’t think I've even thought about them in 50 years.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember Jack Bailey host for “Queen for a Day”?
MS. RICHARDSON: Oh yes, I remember him.
MR. HUNNICUTT: He was in the parade.
MS. RICHARDSON: Was he?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall listening to that radio program?
MS. RICHARDSON: I do.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did your mother when she was at home listen to the radio a lot?
MS. RICHARDSON: No.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember any other radio programs you listened to?
MS. RICHARDSON: Sometimes I get mixed up about when but there was one of music of the week.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Oh, was it put on by Lucky Strikes cigarettes?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes I was and…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. “Top Hits” or something like that.
MS. RICHARDSON: “Top Hits”, something like that. Oh, and oh gosh, from childhood on it was the “Green Hornet”, the creaking--what's that, creaking door where you--something scary was going to be happening. Those were kinds of things that…
MR. HUNNICUTT: “The Shadow”…
MS. RICHARDSON: “The Shadow”, yes, all those.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you read comic books when you were growing up?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes. I think Super Man.
MR. HUNNICUTT: “Lone Ranger” probably…
MS. RICHARDSON: “Lone Ranger” and I listened to the “Lone Ranger” on the radio. And but that's it. I can't--there wasn't--there weren't comic books like Marvel or anything then.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, in those days that was entertainment.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, it was. I mean that's what we had.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you ever attend the American Museum of Atomic Energy down at Jefferson?
MS. RICHARDSON: Oh yes. I was there a number of times.
MR. HUNNICUTT: It opened the same weekend that the gates opened as well.
MS. RICHARDSON: Oh, is that right?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes.
MS. RICHARDSON: Oh wait, wait, wait. You said--ask that again. I jumped to the…
MR. HUNNICUTT: The American Museum of Atomic Energy.
MS. RICHARDSON: So…
MR. HUNNICUTT: It was down at Jefferson, in the old Jefferson Cafeteria building across from where the Skating Rink--remember the Skating Rink? Now it wasn't uncommon for people that lived in the east end of town not to go to the west end and vice versa. I mean you had your sections of town that serviced you and a lot of people stayed in those sections of town.
MS. RICHARDSON: Right. I lived in the west end for three months with my new husband in one of the apartments that used to be dormitories but I don’t recall that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Let's jump ahead. What is your husband's name?
MS. RICHARDSON: It was Everett Gordon Richardson and everybody called him “Rich” because that's what his name, what they called him in the Marines.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What made you live in Oak Ridge?
MS. RICHARDSON: What made me…
MR. HUNNICUTT: When you married him…
MS. RICHARDSON: Oh, after we married, because he had a job at X-10. He was in the--well, they worked with cobalt. That’s all I know. That's all I remember.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, in those days they didn't talk about their jobs.
MS. RICHARDSON: No.
MR. HUNNICUTT: No one talked about their job. So you lived in the first home was the dormitory on the west end.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember what vicinity the dormitory was in?
MS. RICHARDSON: It was on that first hill off the Turnpike.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Off the first hill off the Turnpike…
MS. RICHARDSON: Well…
[Background Talk]
MS. RICHARDSON: That isn't familiar to me.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Would it be on the left or right?
MS. RICHARDSON: I said the first hill. Okay, when you--it would be on the right and it was maybe it's probably gone now. It may have been in the vicinity, isn't there a funeral home along there now?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Oh, that would be in Jefferson Circle.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah. It was along in that vicinity.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes. There was a lot of dormitories there.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: The Skating Rink was right there as well as the museum.
MS. RICHARDSON: Okay.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah.
MS. RICHARDSON: Now, isn't that interesting? I must never have gone in the museum then. I thought you were saying the one that's there now.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That relocated museum [inaudible] museum.
MS. RICHARDSON: I may not have. Although I was in the--now wait a minute. Yes, I was.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you get radiated dime? Do you remember?
MS. RICHARDSON: No, I don’t remember that. but yes, it was in a building up off West Outer Drive?
MR. HUNNICUTT: No, that's the Children's Museum.
MS. RICHARDSON: Oh okay, that's the one I went to.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That's in the old Highland View school.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah, Highland View School, right. Okay, I guess I never did go there.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. So where was the next home that you and your husband lived?
MS. RICHARDSON: Then we moved to Arrowwood in west--in the east end of town in a little two bedroom flattop and we lived there for a couple of years, maybe three. And my first child was born while we lived there. And then we moved to Newcomb Road.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And what was your first child's name?
MS. RICHARDSON: Michael.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And then Oak Ridge Hospital.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah
MR. HUNNICUTT: And what year was that?
MS. RICHARDSON: That was in September of '49.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now do you recall what a flattop looked like inside?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, very much. I walked up these steps. It had a little wood steps and then there was a little wooden porch you might say, and you opened the front door and there was this room, and off the room to the right was a kitchen. And then--but straight ahead was a little entry into two bedrooms. The bathroom was on the right of--I guess at the end of what you'd call the kitchen but opening up in that little area where the bedrooms were.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was the house furnished?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes. And we bought the furniture when they sold them, when they sold the furniture.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And you moved from there to where?
MS. RICHARDSON: To Newcomb…
MR. HUNNICUTT: That's off of New York Avenue.
MS. RICHARDSON: Uh-huh
MR. HUNNICUTT: What type of house was that?
MS. RICHARDSON: It was an A house.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What's the difference in an A and a flattop?
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, it was more a little upscale as the way they built it but it was no bigger really or hardly any bigger. It had the two bedrooms, the bathroom, the living room, which had a little--which was the dining area in the living room, and a kitchen, a small, narrow kitchen by the furnace room.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Still heated by coal…
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, still heated by coal.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you have any more children?
MS. RICHARDSON: I had--then I had three more, two daughters and another son.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And their names are?
MS. RICHARDSON: Jorjan Pace Richardson, and Elizabeth Garland Richardson, and Wade Bransford Richardson. My daughters married but they--when they divorced they reverted to their maiden names.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now were all your children born in Oak Ridge Hospital?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you feel like the Oak Ridge Hospital was really upscale in those days?
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, I had no idea but I would have no complaints. I had none at all. I know that with the first child they kept me nine days but they kept everybody nine days then but by the time ten years later when Wade was born they only kept you five days.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now your children went through the Oak Ridge school system.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes, they did, all the way.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall when they went through the system how the curriculum might have been any better or the same than when you went through it?
MS. RICHARDSON: No, I don’t remember.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was the dress for girls still the same in those days?
MS. RICHARDSON: No, it was very casual, you might call--that was during the hippy days, no bras at times and you know, things like that when they were in high school.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Everybody thought about peace and love in those days.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah, peace and love and they…
MR. HUNNICUTT: That would have been in, what, the early ‘70s?
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah. And their hair was down to their waist and parted in the middle. I mean you've seen pictures of…
MR. HUNNICUTT: And as a parent how did you accept that culture?
MS. RICHARDSON: It didn't bother me. I was rather bohemian in my attire and my affect and I wasn't that way in high school but as through the years that's what happened. And my oldest son, I'll have to tell you this, when he was seventeen he had what was just an average haircut now but his hair came down to here, to below his ears. And he was one of the ushers at our church, the First Presbyterian Church. And two little ladies were sitting behind me one Sunday and here he came down with his plaid pants and a different kind of jacket and that hair, and here he came down to get the offering. And the one of the little ladies said, “I just can't believe that they let something like that serve us in the church.” And I turned around and I said, “Isn't it wonderful? He's my son.”
MR. HUNNICUTT: What did the--where did--what did you do after you married and you had your kids for family fun in those days?
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, we went swimming in the summer.
MR. HUNNICUTT: The movie theater…
MS. RICHARDSON: And we went to the movies and the children went to camp…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Like what type of camp did they go to?
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, Boy Scout camp and Campfire Girls, that kind of--those camps. And…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall doctors making house calls in those days?
MS. RICHARDSON: At the very beginning they did but not--I don't recall any after the very beginning.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now you--and I'm sure your mother when she washed her clothes hung them out on the clotheslines outside.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That was--let nature do the drying.
MS. RICHARDSON: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: When did you move out of Oak Ridge?
MS. RICHARDSON: In '75, '74 late '74, early '75
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember the Downtown section, the new section they built, and all the wonderful stores we used to have? Which we don't have any more.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah, I know.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Over all the years that you've been living what's the most amazing thing you think you've ever seen or know about.
MS. RICHARDSON: In Oak Ridge…
MR. HUNNICUTT: No, anything…
MS. RICHARDSON: Anywhere…gosh. Well, in 1995 I retired from Maryville College and that summer I took four and a half months of travel, tent camping, across the United States. And went from here to the southern part of California but not as far south as Los Angeles. But I went to the Pacific Coast and up the coast into Vancouver and Vancouver Island and Victoria, and I saw--and then back across Calgary and down. I saw so much in our country that I could not believe that I had gone all those years without going past the Mississippi River. And so what sticks in my mind is when I got to the Grand Canyon and we walked up to the Rim, and you don’t see anything until you get to the Rim, or I couldn't at that time. And I immediately burst into tears. It was so overwhelming to me. Now, I don't know if that is the most or not but that's what popped into my mind just then. I have seen so much wonderful things and experienced so many wonderful things in our country. I've been to England for four weeks, and that was exciting. But our country is unbelievable.
MR. HUNNICUTT: How would you describe living in Oak Ridge during the time you lived there?
MS. RICHARDSON: It was wonderful. I can--I would never be one to say I didn't really like Oak Ridge. I couldn't say it. That would never cross my mind to say that. I loved it. It was freedom. I didn't feel restricted from the way I wanted to live and yet I was very traditional until I got my divorce and then I started UT and got my degrees and that sort of thing. And in the late ‘60s and the ‘70s came and my children were influencing me in many ways in their--not that I liked everything that they were doing or--but I think that we were able to live with more freedom in Oak Ridge than we would have in our hometown without being looked as being different. I think of Kingsport as very traditional. But I haven't been there so they may have changed too.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Is there anything we haven't talked about that comes to mind you would like to say?
MS. RICHARDSON: There's one little thing. Back in high school, and I thought about it just a little while back here, and we went past it that time. But one of the things that we did that was dangerous but we didn't think about danger as seniors in high school, was on the road to X-10 there was a quarry and we went swimming there every weekend. And we were never caught or told we couldn’t. And I understand now that they keep that quarry locked up. And so that was one of the things.
MR. HUNNICUTT: It's been my pleasure to interview you and I really appreciate you letting us come into your home today and take this interview and so our viewers-to-be can see how your life was in Oak Ridge in…
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, I hope it works out well so that it will interest people.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, Oak Ridge is an interesting town. There'll never be another one like it. It's very difficult to explain this to people that have never lived there.
MS. RICHARDSON: That's true and the tennis court dances, I mean all of the things that we had there you didn’t have in other towns.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now there's like--I understand there was probably about three women to every man in Oak Ridge and…
MS. RICHARDSON: Oh yes. I mean we were dancing together.
MR. HUNNICUTT: It was a continuous party, wasn't it?
MS. RICHARDSON: It was. You could look at it that way and enjoy this town.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And it was safe too.
MS. RICHARDSON: And it was safe, that was the main I believe, it was safe.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, thank you again for your interview.
MS. RICHARDSON: Well, thank you for asking me.
[End of Interview]
[Editor’s Note: Portions of this transcript have been edited at Ms. Richardson’s request. The corresponding audio and video components have remained unchanged.]