The Myth Of The Indiscriminate Alpha Male

Some readers took yesterday’s post as an opportunity to grind an axe about the supposed fact of alpha males rutting with undesirable females. Puzzlingly, a few readers credulously assumed the factual basis of the featured BDF’s (Bitter, Delusional Fattie) proof-free assertions that she has spread for the seraph rods of “Adonises” of “wealth and success” with “chiseled abs”, despite the BDF having a history as a hardcore delusionist spinning weird, often self-contradictory, fantasies on feminist websites.

Sorry, gullible readers, but this does not happen in real life, at least not nearly as often as fat, deluded shits trying to pump their sexual market value would like you to believe. Perhaps a reacquaintance with the rules of the sexual marketplace are in order:

2. Men with options — aka alpha males — will exercise their freedom to date and fuck and even marry younger, hotter, thinner babes.

3. The sorts of men who date and fuck older, uglier, fatter women are men with fewer options, aka beta males and omega males.

I hope this clears things up. But if not, allow me to bring the abstract down to earth with a personal story.

I know a guy who possesses almost every single genetic and personality marker for high male mate value that a woman can dream of in her wildest fantasies — he’s charming, funny, top 2% looks, wealthy, mesomorphic, ambitious, has a certain amount of local fame, loves kids, owns a dog, stylish, seductive, and cocky — I mean, the dude is heaven sent for women, no homo. If he has a flaw it’s that he’s not very interested in romantic gestures, or putting much effort into pursuing women. It’s a flaw most women he dates are all too happy to dismiss as irrelevant. Mostly his “game” is to demonstrate social status by cracking jokes that get the whole group laughing, tease any hot girls nearby, pull back, and wait for them to throw themselves at him. He is very lazy about the follow-up and closing the deal, preferring instead to call it an early night, skip out on exchanging numbers or insta-dates, and walk home in anticipation of sex as the girl nips at his heels, eager to oblige. His laziness in regards the courtship of women means that he will often “slum it” with 7s and 8s rather than put in effort to get the 9s and 10s who would be ecstatic to assume the role as his natural prey. He is the perfect emblem of the “lazy cad”, iow.

In all the time I’ve known him (a long time), he has never, not once, not even a little bit, bedded a woman less than a 7. And when he has bedded a 7, he treated her with a summary cruelty that would be the envy of badboy loving feminists diddling their beans to female porn about sadistic billionaires. Worse still, when shameless BDFs like the chick showcased in yesterday’s post shower him with attention and practically beg for his cock, he stares at them coldly and arrogantly waves them away, as if to say “what in the hell makes you think you have a chance with me?” He does not disguise his contempt for the over-reaching, sexually aggressive BDF. Most alpha males don’t disguise their contempt, because to be approached with an almost open invitation for sex by a grotesquerie is a slap in the face, a denial of the alpha male’s high standing.

This is, I believe, an accurate reflection of the workings of the sexual market at large. True “Adonises” are not slumming it with gross pigs. They are ignoring them, totally, utterly, completely. That is, when they’re not ridiculing them for shits and giggles. Instead, the rare “Adonises” that BDFs claim to fuck are much more likely, upon closer inspection, to be revealed as simply chucklehead losers or, on very good nights, slightly higher value than bland, nondescript lesser betas. In all my forced acquaintances with these “Adonises” who were banging BDFs, the dude turned out to be much less than the BDF proudly advertised. And, along these lines, you have never seen a more wretched prototype of man than the omega orbiter who revolves around BDFs hoping for some of that fat slut love.

In reality, the following observations are the typical scenarios for low value women:

BDF 3s pumped and quickly dumped by male 4s or 5s, with a very lucky few once in a decade (or year, depending how depraved the slut allows herself to become) getting a shot at male 6 penis. And penis is all she will get.

BDF 3s getting short term flings with male 3s or 4s.

And BDF 3s getting long-term flings with male 2s and 3s, possibly male 4s, and most of the times with no men at all.

The rarity of the BDF 3 hooking up with a male 7 cannot be over-emphasized. It happens, but it happens so infrequently that it tells us nothing generalizable about the mating market. I have never seen nor heard of a male 8 or higher hooking up, even for a few seconds in a dark corner of a club, with a BDF 3, unless he was so blotto that he couldn’t clearly see the pig he was sticking.

Some readers will balk and offer Arnold Schwarzenegger and Hugh Grant as examples of alpha males who slummed it with ugly women. Yes, but the reason they are noted punchlines of jokes about indiscriminate horny men is because they are exceptions to the rule, and hence less forgettable than the hordes of alphas who only abide the love of hot babes. For every Arnie banging a Mexican maid on the DL, there are hundreds of Clooneys, DiCaprios, Pitts, Depps and Berlusconis who have a long, long history of banging only grade A ass. And let’s not forget that Arnie has been under the judgment-altering influence of steroids on and off his whole life, and if you have any experience hanging around meatheads on roids, you know that their powers of discrimination quickly yield to their wall-climbing horniness. I once knew a a guy on the juice who said his erections became so uncomfortably insistent that he would look at any hole, animate or inanimate, and wonder about ways to make it conducive to penetration. He was once caught masturbating into a gym towel in the locker room. No one paid him much mind, though, because apparently it is common practice among juicers to relieve themselves at the gym.

Other readers will claim that high testosterone makes men indiscriminate, and they will point to young men or black men as examples of “alphas” who will bone almost anything, thus vindicating the assertions of the BDF. Two problems with this: One, teenage youth — which is the age at which young men have the most free-flowing T and are presumably the most indiscriminate, is not in and of itself an attractive male trait to most women. Since women judge a man’s mate value on a suite of factors of which facial attractiveness is only one variable, it stands to reason that younger dudes out for a thrill would be lower value to most women. So their rankings, from the BDF perspective, would be lower than what she is claiming to score internet debate points. Two, most white women, which is what the BDF under discussion is, want to date and sleep with white men. They may claim their lovers are Adonii, but if their lovers are black men, the BDF is likely to feel that she is settling.

Black men are, not to put too fine a point on it, more willing than are men of other races to fornicate with the dregs of womanhood. I know there are brothers reading this site, and I know you know that I’m right. This point, along with accompanying scientific evidence, was made in the coda to yesterday’s post, so I suggest readers peruse it again so as to avoid these annoying redundancies. It is a horrible, viciously sadistic point I make, but it is a true point. If the black guys in the studio audience have a problem with it, they can start raising their standards and stop dumping in plumpers. I won’t be holding my breath.

Still more readers argue that every man goes through a dry spell, and it is during these periods that BDFs get their holes morosely plundered by alphas. Again, this claim falls under closer examination. First, alpha males have fewer and shorter dry spells than other men. They are rarely without the company of cute girls, so they rarely feel the need to dumpster dive. When they do experience the odd down time, they attempt to end it by aggressively pursuing… more cute girls! Second, beta males, who would be the natural constituent of BDFs looking to satisfy a hypergamous tingle for higher value men (remember, the omega male is the BDF’s SMV equal) are MORE likely to retreat to video games and porn than to recklessly dumpster dive with a fattie! Even betas have a sense of self-respect, arguably a greater sense than do alphas, for the beta is ever so closer to falling permanently into a BDF dating career track.

Finally, there are some readers who argue that alpha males dumpster dive a lot because “they just don’t give a fuck what people think”. Funny, this theory. Since when has a “don’t give a fuck” attitude been incompatible with adhering to standards for oneself? If anything, alpha male don’tgiveafuckness correlates highly with not giving a fuck about risking rejection from hot girls.

The bottom line is this: Alpha males, like all males, prefer thin babes. The difference is that alpha males have the power to fulfill their preferences, and they do. Betas and omegas are the men who must make sacrifices in quality, and who will occasionally dumpster dive because they feel more urgency to grab those infrequent opportunities when they arise.

And doesn’t that just get to the heart of it? Alphas make their opportunities. Betas mind their opportunities.

Nothing in this post should be taken wholly as a counterfactual to the above claims of BDF sexual opportunity. There is, in fact, truth to the notion that BDFs occasionally get their sloppy wet holes serviced by men somewhat higher in value than the BDF could be expected to realistically date in longer term arrangements. The issue I take with those readers who credulously (and curiously) buy BDF assertions of sex with Adonises is the lack of perspective they reveal about the relevance of sexual market hierarchy gradations.

Dumpster diving men above the omega male threshold do exist, but they are rarer than BDF fantasists assert. And they are not nearly as alpha as the typical BDF will eagerly claim in credulous company. Accidental real life meetings with the “sex toys” of BDFs usually confirm suspicions the BDF was lying to stroke her ego: The “lovers” are either black men who are gonna bolt in two days time, or they are white men who are way more beta, charmless, goofy, older, uglier and/or socially awkward than the BDF let on prior to public exposure of her “conquests”.

But even if the BDF gets her ego temporarily massaged by a parade of one night stands only one SMV point higher than herself, that is still enough pressure exerted on the mating market to skew the pairing up and pairing off outcomes. A one point SMV differential between herself and her regretful pumper can be enough to raise the expectations and entitlement of the BDF, and when a slew of these fly-by-nighters are accumulated, the BDF may actually come to believe her own bullshit. When that happens, omegas and lesser beta males who would be the rightful and natural heirs to the puffy sausage hands of BDFs come to find themselves passed over by these beasts who continue to trawl the singles scene hoping to capture the attention of an out-of-sight greater beta male.

The BDF who thinks herself a CSB (Certified Sexy Babe) is bad news for the nation’s betas, who are forced by circumstance of bloated BDF entitlement to put more effort into wooing women lower on the sexual market totem pole. Luckily, this is a self-correcting market skew, as the egotistic BDF who has not made a realistic reappraisal of her romantic worth is left, at last, lonely and unloved under the rubble of the wall that smashed down on top of her.

This is why game is so important for reasons beyond simply the promotion of techniques for snagging verifiably cute chicks; game is an invaluable market-correcting mechanism that redounds to the benefit of beta males who only wish to date IN THEIR OWN LEAGUE. Game opens pathways to hard 10s, and closes off dead ends to flabby 2s.

225 Responses

who was really disagreeing with you? i think that fact that several posters – myself included – admitted to slummin’ a couple of times supports the theory that high-value men sometimes fuck fat/ugly chicks. just because you and your buddy haven’t fucked girls like her (or won’t admit to it) doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

i have had sex with many good-looking girls. most are 6-8s, but i have also bagged a fair number of 9s and 10s. the fact that i have dumpster-dived on i think three occasions hasn’t affected my ability to land girls in the slightest.

maybe you’re saying that a notch isn’t a notch if it is a fat/ugly chick. ok, well, tell that to my dick when i’m fucked up beyond belief and horny.

perhaps the difference is that i’m not really concerned with being classified as “alpha” or, really, classified at all. i’ll let my life speak for itself.

p.s., you can turn a “i fucked a fat/ugly girl” experience into a terrific story that will have your buddies and (surprise! surprise!) girls laughing their asses off. do frame control and you can do no wrong.

One thing worth observing is that male SMV is very dynamic and can swing dramatically in a single night based on the frame control (or lack thereof) of the man in question. Since female SMV is more aesthetic in nature, it is less prone to daily ebbs and flows and mostly correlated to aging and weight fluctuations.

You may be regularly a 9 on the SMV, but you’ll have nights where your frame control and social calibration is so tuned in that you’re a 10 and you may have nights where a shitty day at work, an argument with a sibling, or an election result that portends a dystopian future just have you in a people-hating rut. That night, even if you’re normally a 9, your malaise for humanity may drop you to a 7 as you are cynical snarky and rude instead of playful in negs. That night you’re a 7 is the night you slum it with a 4 and hatefuck some world ruining BDF. You may return to your 9 ways the next day (more likely a few days later after you have naturally shamed yourself) but the day you slummed, was the November 1929 of your SMV.

Any dumpster diving I’ve done was in the throes on high-T youth mixed in with near virginal inexperience.

The last whale to approach me that I even considered, even considering throwing my junk at her was more because I didn’t want to be rude to a friend of a friend (and very late morning, high alch circumstances, natch). However, the oncoming wave of shame and disgust quickly made me come to reality and quash that shit before any…any…acts past contemplation took place.

IDK, we read Tucker Max, and he’s a psycho, so it’s different for him.

To piggyback on the overall theme of this post, does it surprise anyone that the BDF feminists who so fail to understand markets broadly and instead adopt a mentality of entitlement over achievement are similarly in the dark about the most important market in human evolution: the sexual market?

pretty much sums it up. I will say that my equivalent natural top 1% friend who is lazy but still hits 9’s like a bank proudly had a month long fling with a girl he described as a tattooed troll (but not obese, just not “pleasant”)because she was a lesbian and he broke her.

From what I’ve seen, the naturals with the highest notch counts and best looking chicks are more open to slumming fatties (on the sly) than the average omega.

[Heartiste: I actually find this plausible, because it comports with what I see. But the catch is that “naturals” with high notch counts are not necessarily alpha males. Recall the CH definition of an alpha male: it is the man who could POTENTIALLY secure the most love from the greatest number of the hottest babes. Alpha males are desired men; they are not necessarily men with high notch counts. The uber alpha I described in this post was not in fact a very high notch count guy. He turned down too many women to qualify for that.]

The average omega virgin usually has the highest standards for fucking, typically saying, “I wouldn’t do her, her elbows are pointy.”

[Pointy elbow syndrome is mostly an internet phenomenon. In the field, where the flesh meets the flesh, an omega who had a wide open shot at a BDF would probably go for it, pointy elbows or not.]

On the other hand, I’m not saying that every guy who slums it is killing it with the hotties. See the blacks who chase fatties.

p.s.

China is now shaming women in their upper twenties who aren’t married as “Leftovers”:

“Pretty girls do not need a lot of education to marry into a rich and powerful family. But girls with an average or ugly appearance will find it difficult,” reads an excerpt from an article titled, Leftover Women Do Not Deserve Our Sympathy, posted on the website of the All-China Federation of Women in March 2011.

“These girls hope to further their education in order to increase their competitiveness. The tragedy is, they don’t realise that as women age, they are worth less and less. So by the time they get their MA or PhD, they are already old – like yellowed pearls.”

LOL! This is why China has been around for thousands of years and thousands more years after the U.S. has completed its spiral into a Central American/sub-Saharan territory.

The uber alpha I described in this post was not in fact a very high notch count guy.

There are discriminating alphas of this kind, but there are also those who fuck around a lot. The latter can get high end chicks, but they’re also the ones who will bang borderline trolls. It’s two different styles of alpha.

I knew a guy who almost reflexively seduced women. His attitude eventually became “is this it?” and he started trying out all sorts of odd fetishes and even experimented with a gay friend of a friend. His standards fell and he ended up knocking up a hambeast. Oops.

Maybe 7+ naturals who go hog hunting are seeking novelty and a sense of perspective. I mean, would our hobbies and vacations be as fun if they weren’t contrasted to boring days at work and unpleasant family obligations?

“I really like having a penis in my vagina for lots of psychological reasons. REALLY LIKE IT. I would be unhappy in a relationship that didn’t include frequent intercourse. It just doesn’t physically feel like all that much. As one respondee put it, it basically feels kind of like putting in a tampon. And then I guess pulling it in and out repeatedly? I mean, really, what’s so different about doing that with a penis?”

Did not read past this paragraph… only checked the list of titles of her articles and got angry enough to post here! Argh!

I like reading this site although I don’t comment much… but I started reading this woman’s article and she made me angry enough to comment…

Quote: “I really like having a penis in my vagina for lots of psychological reasons. REALLY LIKE IT. I would be unhappy in a relationship that didn’t include frequent intercourse. It just doesn’t physically feel like all that much. As one respondee put it, it basically feels kind of like putting in a tampon. And then I guess pulling it in and out repeatedly? I mean, really, what’s so different about doing that with a penis?”

Really? What is the point of having many partners if you experience this? Isn’t it better to have, say, 2 or 3 partners in a lifetime but enjoy being with said partner (enjoy does not mean only enjoy sex)? Ok, I’m just and old-fashioned (and old) lady, but this woman!!!!! And don’t get me started on tattoos… Anyway, I had a look at the “sex and love” (or whatever) section of xojane… and really… I always give advice to my nieces (and will in due time do the same with my daughter), but this website is a reminder to keep my effort in advising up!

Now that I am commenting, I know closely three men with options (one being my husband)… they are not young, as they are in their forties and fifties… none of them will have sex with a woman just because she is easy… of the three, the one I personally find more physiscally attractive, is the one that more clearly says that he won’t do a woman even if she throws herself at him. I know one co-worker made advances to him, and she refused her and she went around telling he is gay… I presume (as I don’t work with him) she made a fool of herself, because it’s crystal-clear that this guy is super-straight and super masculine.

I was friends with a married and very fat girl back in college. She slept around a bit on the side at the time (and I’m pretty sure hubby knew and was okay with it). Anyway, she never made any advance on me, which I was grateful for, because even though I was a virgin at the time, even as a generally pretty beta guy (this was in the late 1980s), the idea of sex with her was repulsive. Come to think of it, she must’ve liked me. We spent loads of time together for a time. Until we didn’t. Makes sense now.

I met another girl around the same time. She was moderately fat, but pretty ugly. She also completely dug me at the time. There was no mistaking it. Even then, in my darkest blue pill days, even though personality-wise she was about the coolest chick I knew at the time, I couldn’t envision the idea of having any sort of rendezvous with her, even a pump and dump.

I would self-assess my looks at high 7, maybe an 8. I was beta but was definitely pretty good looking. The two chick above I would rate at a 2 (3? however; since then she has lost a LOT of weight and now looks more like 5 or even a bit higher, for her age) and the second at 3 (4 if I were feeling generous, she also has not aged well at all).

In retrospect, I probably would have more than tolerated a solid 5 at the time. Yes, betas have standards too. And I considered myself pretty open-minded regarding looks.

I noted Clark Gable, Arnold Schwarzenegger, yourself, and Roosh, all of whom have been known to slum it with 5s (and sometimes lower).

[Heartiste: I’ve never slummed it with lower than a 6, if by slumming it you mean fucking. I did briefly feel the titties of a 4 (retracted my paws quickly when she looked up at me in direct overhead lighting), and once got sucked off by a 5.]

Roosh’s 5 was just in the last year.

I’d add Virgil Kent, who goes on about banging “mud turtles,” but you’ll doubtless dismiss him as black.

[Do you deny black men are less discriminating than white men?]

Others on this board have admitted to doing the same when they are . A lot of alphas will occasionally bang borderline trolls.

[I question the validity of your assertion.]

Note that word: occasionally.

[If every alpha male fucked a 3 just once in his life, that would not be enough to raise the expectations of BDF 3s, because there are a lot more of them than there are alpha males, thanks to the obesity epidemic. What’s worse for the BDFs, most alpha males, especially white ones, refrain totally from ever diving lower than a 5.]

Nobody is saying that alphas prefer hotter chicks and that that is who they mostly screw. Nor is anyone denying that some are extremely discriminating. But a good number are not.

[Ok, then, so we’re arguing over numbers. My experience tells me the number is a lot lower than what you’re implying.]

They’ll screw the best available option that night.

[Some. But most will not. Most will skip out because they could not physiologically get it up for a fattie. I’ve heard stories of dudes actually going soft mid-blowjob with fatties they hooked up with when garbage time rolled around. I can’t imagine that does anything for the egos of those fatties.]

Usually that’s their hot girlfriend or some decent looking fuckbuddy, but even alphas occasionally have short periods between girls.

[Porn and vidya gaming is severely cutting into the BDF open sex buffet strategy.]

Again, I’ll go back to the concept of volatility on SMV for men vs a relatively stable decline trend for the SMV for women. In fact, I think some analogy with the VIX for male and female SMV would be illustrative.

Men’s SMV is highly volatile since it is nearly entirely dependent on your social calibration in a moment. You’ll regularly be at your sort of holding level, whether a 6 or a 9, but there will be nights where you’ve got it going for you and nights where you don’t. A 9 may have a few nights where the interactions come so naturally and automatically that he’s a 10 and can walk out of a coffee shop and take home a supermodel, but he’ll have nights where, for whatever reason, his antipathy towards people will be transparent. It won’t make him a Beta for the night, as his disdain for his target will be palpable whereas betas still pedestalize their prey, it’ll make him a Gamma, and it’ll drop his SMV from charming rake to savage hatefucking berserker.

If every alpha male fucked a 3 just once in his life, that would not be enough to raise the expectations of BDF 3s.

It’s usually more than 1, but less than a handful.

[Heartiste: High notch count men would fall in this category, But not all HNC men are alphas, and not all alphas are HNC men. A lot of HNCs are just weirdos with unusually intense libidios and unusually atrophied powers of judgment who prey on BDFs during slow times because they have learned that’s their bread and butter. Again, I come back to my observation that true alpha males — the dudes that women gossip about and wish to hook up with — rarely if ever dumpster dive in the traditional sense of the term.]

I’ve never slummed it with lower than a 6.

You admitted to banging the “marginal” chick with the smelly ass.

[Never did. There have been other contributors here.]

You later described her as a 5.5 on this blog. Search your own archives.

[I don’t feel like searching the archives, but I’ll take your word for it. Nevertheless, I’m telling you now I never did. I can’t speak for the person who wrote the post you are referring to.]

Do you deny black men are less discriminating than white men?

No, but VK does qualify as an Adonis. He has a great body, no homo.

[Ok, (haven’t checked him out so I’ll take this as a given), but if a rando BDF were to tell me she slept with multiple Adonises, and it turned out most of them were black, I would bet they would have good bodies, but not be partiuclary facially attractive to most white women. Chiseled abs or not, most white chicks are not into thuggish looking or too “African” looking black dudes at all.]

Some.

Enough. If you’re a 4 or 5 and you hang around the bar every night, and this chick looks like she does, and you are open to going home with guys, you will bag a handful of alphas for one night stands.

[She will bag relatively higher value men for sex, but the discrepancy won’t be that large. The typical 4, if she is willing to slut it up, will end the night sloppily making out with a 6. She will not be mashing down with an 8.]

Also, noting how you ignore what Roosh has openly admitted. Recently.

[I’m not ignoring it. I just have nothing to say about it. There are some players who occasionally bang plain girls. But most alphas don’t do this, at least not in any appreciable frequency that it could be generalized as a pattern.]

To be high value dont do low value things. When a fatty openly talks about having sex with a hot guy the first thought coming to mind should be, “wtf, someone got it up for you?” The drunken defense doesnt work either because of the dehydration effects and the depressive effects of alcohol which make it more difficult to achieve and maintain an erection.

Maybe, just maybe, fat is only one of many defects that different men will find more or less tolerable because beauty and ugliness are objective.

There are many kinds of ugly. Every woman has some, just like every woman who takes care of herself has some beauty. The question is what kind of defects a guy is going to find okay, and what kinds not okay.

I think it’s a good idea for everybody to be realistic and not idolize or pedestalize any woman, and focus on the fact that no woman should believe herself too good for a man because of things about her that are very temporary. Her hypergamy needs to be in check because beauty wise, we are all a depreciating product. Some start with more or less than others, and some depreciate faster, but we’re all headed the same place (the wall and then the grave). So a bit of gratitude for a man loving us more than a few days is in order, since men seem to have no problem showing their gratitude when a woman who turns them on just walks into a room.

Women should appreciate male attention more. So just don’t tolerate bitchiness, no matter from who. Some women don’t deserve the right to be bitchy more than others just because they’re prettier. Don’t take crap from anyone you’re doing or want to do whether she is a charming ogress with pretty eyes, or the Grand Princess of Pulchritude and Loveliness straddling a unicorn who pisses your favorite beer on demand.

Sometimes, this is what these debates look like: arguing over which women are more or less worthy of supplication based on their looks. None of us are.

What a waste of life… You have a knack for mixing truths gained and comporting them into your twisted view of reality. Despite your best efforts littering this topic with nonsense you have done nothing to debunk the premise alphas slum it with fatties. Just the thought of being inside a fatties rotten smelling hole and looking down at her fat rolls creeps me out enough to consider celibacy. If I was locked in prison for 5 years and just got out I wouldn’t even consider fucking a fatty. Your hamster is broken, accept the truth that fat women are amongst the dregs of society and that we only deal with them because we have to. Society can force us away from judging fatties but they cant force us to put our dicks in them.

Your revolutionary fervor is admirable, but reality still is what it is. I hope one day you come to terms with it so when life teaches you that you’re not immortal, you don’t blow your brains out. Peace.

You seem to be getting it slowly, any improvement is better then no improvement, but you still have a sick hamster. First you were claiming alphas slum it now you are claiming attractive guys slum it, which is a step in the right direction. I would suggest trolling a site where you can get some help, instead of trolling a pickup site where nobody would ever help you or sleep with your 42yr old ass. Though cougars are a slight step up from a fatty. Where a fatty would be a 3, and a cougar would be a 3.5.

Something else you should know before you get into it with me again. I’m kind of a “graduate” of this blog. I came here years ago because I needed honest answers about some things going on in my life, got them, and put them into practice already.

Nobody here is perfect. It is easy, if you’re weak minded and gullible, to make that presumption from what they are saying, that they have something over others, and some people play on that behind a cloak of anonymity, but like semantics, I’m not playing that game either. WYSIWYG.

For someone in a somewhat bad situation and with low SMV, I’m doing pretty good for myself, and am grateful for every bit of that. So if your point is that I shouldn’t be grateful or that I should go kill myself because you don’t think I’m hot, then you can go stand in the psycho corner with the rest of the nutbars with a chip on their shoulder because life isn’t like a Disney movie and I’m not a Disney princess.

That is a very insightful comment. If you say you don’t play semantics, then how could semantics be semantics, since you don’t play them. In other words, if there is no concrete definition to anything then why even comment. Though, this is actually another small step forward, you are admitting that everything you say has little meaning, which we already know. heh. Now be a good fat old troll and go get some spray on tan and enjoy some creeper for a few minutes and give us a break from your nonsense.

Look kid, you don’t know me, and don’t know anything about me. I recommend you turn it down a notch before you make yourself look like more of a fool.

You seem to have your panties in a bit of a twist because I said no woman deserves to be on a pedestal, basically because fresh pussy turns 18 every day, and we all get old. What exactly is your problem with this?

What? None? Just have a stick up your ass and you think the fatty is an easy target?

You’ll find I’m not an easy target, as being fat, I have a pretty thick skin. I’m just telling you to stop freaking out like a bitch before you embarrass yourself further. Like most spoiled children, you seem to be unable to tell when someone’s trying to help you if they don’t kiss your ass.

You’re using two dissimilar terms: attractive guys vs. desirable men. Physical attractiveness is not as critical in men as it is in women. You will occasionally find men who have the aforementioned Adonis abdomen but due to other weaknesses (whether it be professional/financial success, social calibration, or overall frame) do not arise to the level of Alpha, the 9s and 10s of male desirability. Yes, being physically attractive will make a beta man a greater beta but it alone will not make an alpha. Back to the basics, it’s all survival and replication. Men provide the survival, and while the ability to physically defend is a part of that, the ability to provide in modern contexts also demands professional success to a degree and social calibration geared towards dominance. Women provide replication value, and that replication value is almost entirely related to perceived beauty and traits that indicate health.

Read what “The Dissident” said. And he’s wrong. Ashton Kutcher “should” be an alpha based on his fame and looks, but he’s obviously a beta-bitch in spite of those things. So despite his high desirability, he consistently fails to meet or exceed his own reasonable market value, thereby reducing same market value.

Pro athletes may be “alpha” in some sense, but plenty of them are seriously lacking in intelligence, judgement, financial sense, emotional maturity and social skills. NBA players are probably the worst in this respect, because they’ve been groomed for nothing but basketball since the age of 10 or so, and then they go pro at 18 or 19. Not surprising that their personal development is somewhat stunted and thus they settle for whatever is easiest.

A positional alpha gets chicks/has power merely through his position. Athletes, musicians, CEOs, etc. all get more chicks than if they were ballboys, roadies, and mailroom jockeys.

When Heartiste says “alpha”, however, he means a guy who gets hot chicks through his interaction with them, not from his pocketbook or job title.

For example, I hate him, but Derek Jeter strikes me as a dude who would get laid a lot even if he weren’t a sports superstar. Tom Brady as well. Both come off with a coolness towards women that drives them wild. Gisele, positionally, stepped down from Leo DiCaprio to Tom Brady, but yet Gisele is so in love with man, she’s screaming publically at other players for making her husband lose (despite probably not knowing squat about football till he caught her eye).

Tom’s got major hand with Gisele, even though she’s way more famous and rich than him. Likewise, Jeter keeps Ms. universe’s on speed dial, but never commits. Both dudes are on the wrong sides of 30 and have past their most famous points, yet both control their women with

Most athletes, however, are horribly non-alpha. Tiger Woods and Brett Farve’s text messages show two men who are very beta/clueless about women, but who expect their stuff to work merely because of their positions as celebrities. If they ever become non-famous (Farve is pretty much there), their abilities to get laid will tumble.

In fact, one of the biggest reasons why veteran plays stick around forever in many leagues is their ability to handle the temptations of the road. Most rookies are astounded at how easily they get laid, and it goes straight to their head. The veterans who can handle this—learn cool alpha game—can have fun and yet still get to the game on time and play decently. Many burnouts could not handle the road—-they were permanent betas desperate to suck the golden goose dry, because they didn’t think they could ever get that laid without their positions.

That’s because most white women don’t want to marry outside of their race, even if the guy is a millionaire. Not to mention it also has to do with surroundings….I don’t think beautiful white models frequent the same places as NBA players- and if they do, they certainly do not intermix.

Also, I think it would be culturally difficult, given the very “urban” culture of the NBA to be a white wife. I’m sure many girls could do it, I’ve been to those clubs and it’s not that hard, but most do not really seem interested (except maybe to be a bottle rat).

I think you’re right in your assertion that true top men won’t slum it.

I guess where I was blurring the lines were in guys that had some attractive attributes and slept with decent women would fuck a chunky every once in a while. These guys don’t exactly have really tight game or anything, they simply just drift along and didn’t know what they were doing. Also, they certainly aren’t banging model quality at any time.

I guess these guys would be termed greater betas/lesser alphas. Sometimes they would score good quality ass usually in a relationship and sometimes slum with not fugly women but definitely not hot.

However, I don’t think any sober alpha would ever fuck that she-beast that wrote that article. I wasn’t referring to girls like that thing. I was talking about chubby girls that have at least some type of cuteness. Lena Dunham and BDF are replusive.

He’s in his mid twenties and I’m in my early thirties. He’s young, super hot, acts way more mature than me! I’m oooooold, very cute-still (phew) and extremely established. He is falling madly in love with me and I feel, being that I’m the older wiser one, that I dont want to take away from his life experinces. That is, if I wasnt in the picture then he would be doing what a young guy does! Partying and experiencing life the way a young person should. He wants to move in with me and marry me, so he’s found himself a fulltime job (I never told him to) so that he can move in and pay half of the bills (once again, I never asked him to). I want the guy to live a full happy life and don’t wish to get in the way of his growth. Hmm. I’m so confused. I have no clue what I’m doing!
I also feel scared cuz in a few years I will get old and ugly, then he might take half of everything. Oh no!
All my fears and thoughts melt away when I’m with him. He’s sooooo unbelievably gorgeous, breath taking body, just out of this world in hotness and when I’m with him my brain shuts off and my mind goes blank. It’s definitely a problem.
Any advice? Please don’t be mean to me! Thank you!

yeah, won’t last. interestingly, you may end up being the one who leaves him. why? well, unless he’s just playing you for a chump by promising you the moon so he can keep tappin’ that ass (highly likely), his offer to move in, pay the bills, and get married make it seem like HE’s a hardcore loser. if he really is high value, why would he want you for such serious commitment?

Nah, there are plenty of young betas out there. He may be good looking, but his offering to hitch himself to her suggests that he is in fact not finding any luck with younger girls.

Given his betaness, and how she is disadvantaged due to her age, this may end up being one of those older woman-younger man marriages that you see once in a while.

The danger, actually, is not her leaving him, but if he becomes noticeably more confident and competent (read: alpha) over the years, that he’ll have the affair with a younger woman that he couldn’t hack now.

No! No! No! His offering to hitch himself to me is because he’s religious, traditional and thinks I’m a good girl, plus I think the fact that I’m already established plays a huge role too. The thing is, I know that he’s thinking this way cuz he’s young and still has that naivety that young people have. You know, that anything is possible (I don’t believe in that).

Yes, I do know deep in my heart and soul that when he gets older and even more hotter he will pull away from me cuz I will be old, wrinkly and ugly. Old, wrinkly and ugly people are not appealing. I get it!

I will stumble and bumble my way through this. Thank you for the advice. I truly appreciate it.

Well… if he’s religious and traditional, it would cut down on the risk of him cheating. Such guys don’t understand the appeal of “sowing one’s wild oats”, because to them, it’s sinful. I don’t believe you mentioned this before. No, my sister-in-law’s sister is a few years older than her husband, and they seem arguably happier than many couples I’ve seen.

Its possible, since he’s obviously beta and pussy starved if he’s fucking a woman 7 years his elder in the first place.

You wouldn’t be the first woman who had a decent looking but scarcity mentality beta stay with her long past the time she lost her looks. You two crazy kids just might make it. Enjoy your weakass, just happy to be in your vagina, beta youngster.

Enjoy it while it lasts, which, who knows, it might last more than a few years. Continue taking care of your body and soul, and when it ends, be prepared to rebound with a guy 10 years older than yourself.

Prolong the action with girl game, and by taking good care of him sexually and otherwise.

Bob hush. It is good for a woman to view her man as the alpha in her life. Unless you’re gunning to take his place, be a bro, and keep your mouth shut. Men should be supporting one another, not catfighting like girls over a chick you’re not even trying to bang.

Anyway, older lady, I knew a May/December couple wherein the woman was the older, and they were strange but beautiful. The guy was weird, and though he had many other options, was smitten with her. He did BDSM play with others because she liked to be part of a kind of harem that way, but as far as I know, was only doing intercourse with her. She was also the only one I ever observed him looking at with the mooney eyes.

She was in her 50’s when I knew them, and was a slim woman who was beginning to be a little frail already. He was very protective of her, and his attitude did not match his mere 26 years. It was one of the real exceptional loves that defied any kind of logic except…

A few years later, he died. His heart failed, and he fell asleep, and didn’t wake up. A couple of years after that, she died too. She just kinda let herself pass.

Sometimes people who are either super aware of their mortality (dead parent or siblng, or with potentially fatal conditions, or extreme lifestyles) express love differently and towards different people than those who seem to think they’ll have all the time in the world.

If that’s your boyfriend, it has a good chance. If not, you will probably have to just understand that he may stray a few times along the way, even if he loves you. You can let it break your relationship, or you can be understanding that men are human and different from women, and let it pass…but for God’s sake never ever let him know that you would be okay with that or forgive him. Maintain the illusion that you expect monogamy, especially since he’s religious. It gives him an ideal to aspire to. If you destroy that dream or make as if you don’t share his dreams, this can cause a self fulfilling prophecy.

Men like us humble and a bit naive. Don’t lose that cute innocence just because it has to make a little wedge for realism.

If you think you have high sexual value because you’re dating a much younger man, it’s exactly the opposite. You’re a loser. Why would you want a guy who dates older women? That means he is a loser. So you two are losers together. It’s funny, older woman can’t get a man their own age since these men want much younger women, yet such women end up with much younger loserish men instead, or younger men only looking for sex and know that older woman give it up much faster than younger ones. Find a husband, not a fling with a younger man looking for sex.

Illness is an inevitability if you survive long enough. Death is an inevitability, period.

People who are aware of their mortality don’t have the entitlement problems you and a few others here seem to. (Cue: you all thought you’d grow up to be rock stars…)

People who are aware tend not to look down their nose at others who simply haven’t been dealt the same cards in life.

Nobody raised me to believe I was going to be able to depend on anyone else but maybe my family for anything. So for me, meeting a kind person is a blessing whether or not they are “hot”. I guess some people here had so many advantages and so much kindness showered on them all their lives that they feel they have the luxury to be jerks to people who’ve done nothing wrong to them.

I’m not saying you have to date someone just because they’re kind…just why bother yourself to try to harm someone, or decide they’re inferior, when apparently their humanity has survived things that yours apparently did not?

I personally think people who never experience being loved are losers.

In the subtext of sites like this is the fact that very few of us are what one would call ideal. Both the men and the women who come here have usually had some sort of struggle that was mostly self inflicted…things that kept us distracted and standing in our own way of being loved and/or finding someone who could express love in a way that we needed them to.

Being lusted after is not being loved. Something women should bear in mind is that a man does not love you unless he *knows* he has every logical reason to walk away, *knows* he can do better than you, and stays anyway because even though you are beneath him, he values you anyway.

…and you don’t really love him unless you know he can do better.

So I think a disabled or seriously ugly woman gets more out of being loved than a pretty girl. It may happen less often, but when it does…wow.

“So I think a disabled or seriously ugly woman gets more out of being loved than a pretty girl. It may happen less often, but when it does…wow.”

Indeed, when an ugly girl gets loved, it’s special. However, the once in a blue moon this happens, doesn’t count. You also hit the lotto once every 600 million tries. When something isn’t that prevalent, you can’t use it as the norm or the standard. When are you lefties going to get that through your head?

That said, any girl nowadays that gets loved for real and who loves for real, is special. True love isn’t that prevalent anymore. I don’t trust any egalitarian sexual relationship as true love. True love could only exist when the man rules the female, and she in turn respects him and looks up to him. All else is just sex, and as soon as it burns out it’s over and the parties move on, even after marriage and children. Egalitarianism ruins marriage.

“In the subtext of sites like this is the fact that very few of us are what one would call ideal. Both the men and the women who come here have usually had some sort of struggle that was mostly self inflicted…things that kept us distracted and standing in our own way of being loved and/or finding someone who could express love in a way that we needed them to.”

Who knows; that’s speculation. I rather think the men and women that read here are pretty normal, although they are rebelling against current lefty society-mores. It’s hard for them to accept the “new” normal.

Lily, if you’re not grateful, you’re not being ruled in the way a woman needs to be ruled by your man.

I think love that is love is more common among people who are farther from ideal than closer to it.

What I think most people here are actually looking for is a kind of mixed sexual and social validation to tide them through their youth and get them children maybe. It’s a formula that works to get them breeding. Maybe, if they’re lucky, love will happen when they get ill and their partner sticks it out with them, or when they’ve had a few kids and the woman treats their children well or something.

Ruled isn’t, “Yay, I was pretty enough and nabbed a high quality man.” Ruled is, “There might be a God because I am so blessed that this person who can tear me to pieces inside and out, treasures me.”

I really don’t like the equation of pack dynamics – themselves questionable – with tribal or social dynamics, which are far more ideologically driven and not biologically defined.

That being said I agree with the thrust of this article.

I personally just don’t give a fuck about women anymore. The really hot ones are out of my league (or at least cost more time, energy, and bullshit tolerance than I can muster) and increasingly a majority of the remainder are so fat and ghetto as to be completely uninteresting.

If I ever have a ‘long-term’ it will most likely be one of those awesome import models from the Orient. Having no interest in families, community or any sort of ordinary social relations I’ll probably just confine myself to the occasional high-grade whore out of Taipei, though. And, frankly, it’s a better deal.

Some of the claims of fat ugly women to have slept with Adonises, are like when they put a really old picture in their dating profile. Maybe they did manage a fling with one, but it was 20 years ago when she was 19 years old, was a lot less fat, and could get by attraction-wise on dewy youth. And women tend to have somewhat more emotional memory (you might call it) so yes, the claims can be exaggerated. I sometimes am present when my girl recounts some minor story to her friends and think to myself no, that’s NOT what so and so said! (I’m smart enough to know that usually it’s best not to try to correct her though.)

I would describe myself as high value dude. I got my shit together, have nice job, confidence through the roof and attractive. I once banged a ugly turd. I would rate her a 3 or 4 (doesn’t make a difference). I came out of a tough relationship and had a hard time to get my mojo back.

I had a successful day in my job and went out that night with a few colleagues to party. At the bar was this turd, who gave me in a few seconds all IOIs on the list. Well, I wanted my mojo back, so I said fuck it, she is easy and maybe I enjoy it. Few hours later we are at my place and she is really ugly… At first I was not sure, if will do it, but suddenly out of no where the solution came.

She told me, that she had a few day ago birthday and got a present from her friends. It was a summer dress. I knew she will be an ugly sight naked so I had this idea. I told her to dress it to spice up the sex. In reality I knew, I couldn’t hold my boner, if I see her naked. So I told her:”Put it on. I will be the first one who fucks you in that dress.”

We fucked (details I don’t want to share – no braggin rights with this one) , boner stayed (buh..) as I didn’t see her body through the dress. Afterwards she asked me, how a guy like me could go after a girl like her. “You can choose any girl you want.” Well, it didn’t feel like telling her the truth, that I had a hard time and needed to get back in the game and she was my first one.

She left in the morning. She tried once to meet with me again, but I didn’t want to be seen with her. She realized that pretty quick and never contacted me again. Anyway, I had my mojo back and had a hot streak afterwards as the chicks were getting hotter and hotter…

That story I also told hotter chicks I met after and they always had a good laugh.

I have no idea why you are telling betas the secrets to getting women. I guess for all your sarcasm and contempt towards betas and women you’re actually a pretty good guy! Also the negativity shows you do care (or lament) a bit about the current status of affairs. But as you said yourself, the sexual marketplace works behind the scenes and that it has to be this way.

Besides, from personal observation, most beta males are self-deluding, often have huge defensive egos (much more so than alphas) and not any more noble than alphas. Also, they are literally more satisfied with uglier women and will most likely drop the ball due to panic even if a gorgeous girl fell on their lap.

But, as this blog’s existence proves, not every man is an alpha. Some guys who could easily be alphas have few skills to do so, and some guys who have a harder time (short, fat, redheaded—like Piggy) being alphas have to practice a lot.

From the reviews, it seems Wilson (the doctor) has a personality that is in beta mode—-run out on by his ex-wife, pathetically weak in his attempt to get the coffee shop to pay attention to his plight. Thus, it would be easy to see how he could dumpster dive with the Sewer Troll. I don’t think it was pulled off well (probably due to writing, Sewer Troll isn’t very good), b/c almost every reviewer found it to be a major sticking point. A well-written episode could have convinced you why he’d fuck a land-beast—probably with a few scenes of Wilson being pussyish and beta (“Two Four Six Eight! Take Back the Night, it’s not too late!”). Give him a drinking problem and have them meet while he’s drunk.

Living in NYC, I could plausibly meet a doctor-type in Brooklyn who’s beta enough to slum it with Sewer Troll. Most are more nebbish (re: Jewish and SWPL atheist) types, and most would not be dressed as well as Wilson was in the pictures I saw.

I can attest to the fact that beta males prefer to retreat to porn and video games rather than slum it. I did it for some number of years until I recently got my shit together, and I never once gave the time of day to the multitude of fugs that sensed my lower social standing and mistook it for a low self opinion.

Most beta males are only low value socially, not their looks, or talents, or professionally. And they know it, so the fugs get rejected. Only men who are both incompetent and socially inept (or REALLY ugly) are omega’s, and that is who the fugs zero in on 9 times out of 10 to ensure an unholy rutting.

It’s not just a matter of the fatties, or even of most women being fat, it’s that the traditionally useful things about women (being mothers, being helpful around the house, being receptive to male sexual dominance) are increasingly withered away. Even if you find a decent looking and receptive girl the chances are she’s going to be a pain in the ass and totally not worth it.

When I was 17, I would get raging boners from watching the billowing, vaguely-breast-shaped clouds drift by overhead. And I would have fucked them if they got close enough.
Although the details of closing that deal must remain un-explained.

I was one of these annoying commenters. To my defense, I am a lazy little cow and I didn’t even click on the link. I thought the chick we were talking about looked like Leah Dunham, where I could KIND OF see that some good looking (but not uber alpha) would slum it for. But that other chick was like a giant vat of dough with undereye bags. I don’t think even high betas on 20 shots of tequila would go for her. She makes me sad. She also makes me want to live where she lives, so I can go there and be the most beautiful princess in all the land.

It is 100% true though that men will sleep with women “below” them, hence why the SMP can suck for a beautiful woman who wants to get married. However, I’d say 2-3 points below the man’s SMV is what he’d go for…..

—-

BTW I had a fat friend (of a friend) who slept around a lot. One guy she took home was a bit better looking than her (and I was impressed), until the morning after when she discovered he had a prosthetic leg and a glass eye. Alcohol, man.

I don’t care what anyone says. One should always have a slut as a friend, just for the stories.

It was mostly the female commenters who were trying to claim Alpha males were indiscriminate.

Why? Because they’ve bought into the media myth than men are dogs and will screw anything. The reason that myth exists is to make women feel better about themselves. It says to them “Hey! Don’t feel so bad! There’ a guy just around the corner!!”

There isn’t. Back in our dorm in college, when we couldn’t snag hotties at parties we went to our rooms ALONE. Most sane men do not slum for simple biological reasons: we have to be able to get it up, and if you’re not hot, it doesn’t work. SIMPLE as that.

Other myths the media feeds women to make them feel better include lies about the amount of domestic violence (“Hey! It’s not just you who made a bad choice!”) and lies about body fat being “healthy,” for obvious reasons.

There isn’t. Back in our dorm in college, when we couldn’t snag hotties at parties we went to our rooms ALONE.

Ya, I don’t know exactly why any dude with a functioning dick would pork a hog, unless he was randy enough to stick it in the couch crease (or an actual hog). One dude I know would pick up large numbers of nasty women in bars and screw them, and all his friends called him “a man-whore” with “jizz like battery acid”. Another married a hideous fatty when he was only 17, and he had very infantile mannerisms. Whenever any fatty has gotten a man, said man is always weak, mousy little fellow that a mid-summer breeze could blow over.

Nobody said alphas were indiscriminate. This is how what we said was interpreted by people who are doing the equivalent of clapping their hands over their ears and screaming.

What I was trying to say that a man who has many options and has had them for a good long time, and gains experience, is going to discriminate differently than a 30 year old near virgin who the bulk of his sexual outlet was porn throughout his teens and adult life.

Both men know what beauty is objectively (unless they’re twisted somehow) but the experienced will have some real life experience to go along with the variety of images he’s given a turn. If his best experiences were with women who you wouldn’t shag, he doesn’t give two shits about your opinion, and goes for what he wants.

This is kind of frustrating for me because I have the same issues trying to explain to a bunny rabbit why a lion eats meat even though he can take any vegetables he wants.

Men who have had a lot of sex and can fuck as they please end up in some strange places, you got that right Nikki.–

One gets the feeling, reading the “manosphere,” that a great deal of the “beta” relation to women is an orgy of anxious psychology, rather than the relentless indulgence of sensual prerogatives that is the province of the born “alpha.”

Guys prefer girls who are 1. young looking, 2. slender and sexy shaped, 3. pretty. I say young looking because that is what matters. Kate beckinsale isn’t young and that doesn’t matter to any straight man.

When guys do not have easy access to a woman who possesses all of the above traits, they settle for the following order of slum

1. pretty and good body but older than ideal. Monical Belluci would be this. Not really much settling there.

2. young and buterface- I think in a different era, this wouldn’t have been preferred over pretty face and fat, but since fatness is common and great bodies are not, this one wins out these days

3. young and pretty but fat and hourglass

4 older and butterface

5. young and pretty and fat and not hourglass

[CH: There’s no such thing as a fat and pretty girl.]

6. young and fat and not pretty

7. forget it

Most of the attractive alphas I know of I have not seen get below #4 on that list. I even know several that never get below #2.

However, alphas are human. Human have failings. Alpha is not binary. It is not like you are now annointed alpha and that is that. Alphas can be bipolar. They can be ravaged by drug and alcohol addictions or sex addictions. They can get severely stressed and depressed. Alphas have their bad days. There can be a guy who is superficially attractive to women and alpha 5 days of the week but then goes into some bipolar slump and then he bangs some unattractive fattie.

You can’t say “well, it doesn’t make any sense to bang a fat ugly girl when you have options, so it doesn’t happen.” People do what does not make sense all the time. All the time. There very well could be enough alphas slipping up due to their own personal demons and inner hell that ugly fatties get nailed often enough by them.

I don’t know why Kutcher lets these washed up old crones with lots of previous alpha male mileage be his bottom bitch.

If he’s just dating famous chicks for the fame feedback loop, there are plenty of younger hotter tighter actresses to keep his name in the tabloids.

Despite fame, all evidence points to Kutcher being a low-self esteem beta with women. Without looks height fame, he’d just be that goofy extroverted guy who can make girls laugh but not close. And maybe not even that, because I’d wager a large portion of his extroverted confidence comes from his looks/height/fame.

Hmm… Heartiste, when you talk about men on the juice being horny enough to plug into anything, and then we have black men doing similarly, and then Steve Sailer claiming that blacks have higher T levels… I guess a white dude getting on the juice will feel what it’s like to have a black dude’s sex drive.

1) I was 19 and near peak male testosterone
2) I was completely shitfaced
3) I was on a 8-9 month dry spell
4) She was 18 (so at least she had youthful skin and energy), and a college athlete of a butch sport so her chubbiness was semi-firm mass, not porky fat plumpness.
5) I didn’t game her at all. She was the guest of a roommate, climbed into my bed and started stroking dick while I was laying there trying to stop the spins.
6) When my attempts (grunts) to get her to leave me alone were unsuccessful, I decided it that if I fucked her, she might let me get some sleep
7) I didn’t kiss her
8) I went rawdog
9) I thought of a hotter girl the whole time (which was less than 3 minutes because I was not at all concerned with performance or her pleasure. also the dry spell had me locked and loaded.)
10) After we were finished, I had enough adrenaline built up to kick her out of my room, giving her a blanket and a couch to sleep on.
11) I never told anybody about it, and when I saw her at another party half a year later, I pretended not to know who she was.
12) It was the first time in my life I felt REAL SHAME

The point is that “slumming it” can happen to a guy, but its a mistake brought about by a perfect storm of circumstances, it is not pleasurable for the girl or guy, and most importantly most guys who experience it NEVER DO IT AGAIN.

Jesus, when I think of that night I still get a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach.

Even if a man bangs his cousin, his buddy’s gf, a prostitute, ruins an LTR by getting caught cheating, etc. etc., the bang he will always regret the most is the ugliest/fattest girl.

(Note: And I wasn’t even alpha at that point in my life. Had barely swallowed the red pill, nascent alpha at best, male 7 in looks, but had NO OPTIONS (note the long dry spell). A truly desirable alpha slumming it must be even rarer. Wouldn’t a touch a girl like that today even after a bottle vodka and on a cycle of venice beach’s finest gear)

Actually a pretty amusing story. There are some chubby women athletes from my old dorm I wish I’d banged, in retrospect. What seemed like a 4 then was actually more like a 6 now, since youth counts for a lot AND because competition amongst women at 19 is really stiff. Maybe someday you’ll find a pic of her and realize she was better looking than you thought?

Acting as a stone-cold nihilist may not be in the middle of my comfort-zone, but I am becoming acclimated to it… By and by.
I am pretty sure I will never turn suicidal; which is a minor thing for me, but a runaway train of bad news for the people on my list.

Some of the fatties may have been a lot slimer for a while when they were young. I dated a woman who ballooned out after she married (someone else), but she was a solid 7 in late teens and twenties, and may have memories.

This is an important distinction when you’re looking at the nuances of why some alphas are banging everything on the spectrum and some are sticking to the hotties.

I’m a Thrill of the Hunt type, so I’ll pass up an easy ugly lay for even a seemingly impossible shot at a hotter girl and even if that means going home alone in the end, I’m perfectly content with that. I get depressed/disgusted if I bang an ugly chick, I did that back when I was starting out at pickup and it was alright then because I had never had sex at all before, but now I treat them like CH’s buddy where it’s like “Seriously? You think you have a chance with ME? lol that’s cute now go away.” I just couldn’t bring myself to bang an uggo, even if she was naked in front of me and begging for it.

On the flip side, the best Natural alpha I know who fucks multiple new girls each week (often more than one in a day lol) is a Pleasure of Sex guy, so he bangs anything from a 2 to a 10 and gets the same joy/fun out of it, and he chooses his girls by how easy a lay they’ll be (he’ll choose a 4 who’s begging for his cock that night over a 10 who’s into him but will take some work or doesn’t have easy logistics) and he’ll be depressed if he doesn’t get laid at all. He becomes a whiny annoying bitch to hang out with if he goes more than a week without sex lol But as soon as he sticks his dick in anything, he’s happy as a clam again.

He’s a guy that would fuck that chick in the article and she would brag about it (he’s a good-looking dude) if she slutted it up and made it easy for him. And she would think he was legit into her because no matter how ugly they are, he plays the gentleman game and tells them they’re gorgeous etc. to their faces because that’s just how his game is. And he might even fuck her multiple times if she’s a good lay and low drama and makes it easy for him. But it would be with zero intention to ever commit to her, he would try to hide her from his buddies, and he would insult her to his buddies because he knows she’s shit. And if she started any drama whatsoever (starting arguments, demanding more attention/commitment, coming over to hang out without putting out, etc.) he will bitch her out (he likes the drama and make-up sex lol) and drop her ice cold. If she gets with the program again, he’ll fuck her again, but as soon as she acts up again, he’s out.

Anyway, so there you go. Two ends of the spectrum. We actually run into problems now and then winging eachother because of it…he gets frustrated that I won’t jump on hideous grenades for him at 2am, and I get frustrated that he won’t stick out harder sets with hotter chicks.

I think two guys on the same page (two Thrill of the Hunt guys or two Pleasure of Sex guys) would absolutely kill it in-field in terms of both getting the results they want.

Shit, that was longer than I thought lol Back to working like a dog so I can go out this weekend.

My point all along is that though it may happen relatively infrequently, it still happens with enough frequency that fat/ugly/masculine or combos like myself, do not feel that we are missing out on anything. It is partly why I was spoiled. I actually got two to put a ring on it without doing any tricks or pregnancy traps.

I do understand that I and female relatives of mine with similar figures and experiences are far more exceptional than I used to think. Figuring this out was step 1 in solving my problem of being in an even more hostile dating environment with a bonus ethnicity problem. More women with looks issues should know the truth.

Sure, because men are much more forgiving of physical flaws than women are of personality flaws, every once in awhile, one of us wins the merciful hero or functioning fetishist lottery, but this is too rare to bank on. When I was dating without the protection of my family and bros, I caught a lot of hell. Other women I know with similar flaws catch a lot of hell.

There is no way to get good stuff from the sexual market, as a low value woman, but to optimize what little value you have in it. When you do that, then at least you’re visible enough to the exceptional guys to get their attention.

Dominant men like humility in a girl. Really, this is something even hot chicks need to know because everybody gets old.

so i chat w this semicute chick on the internet, i quickly discover she is in town for a short time and is open to the idea of meeting up tonite and most likely DTF.
so we meet up 1 hour later, shes already tipsy even though she is driving, she has been drinking champagne, which btw is the only thing she drinks, or so she tells me. i am a naturally introvert. not really shy just not a talkative guy, so after a few minutes of not saying much she asks me. am i not what you expected from the pictures, how do i rate compared to the pics? (if i had dollar for every time a girl ask me why im so quit, but atleast i know its good, she is interested and wants me to talk to her more)

i hesitate, deliberating my answer, for a few seconds and not knowing what to say i tell her: you are different from the pictures, but look good. lots of people look different, last chick i met from the internet told me i look quite different from my profile pic as well. she is more or less satisfied with the answer and we move on. what should i have answered?

she wears bright red lipstick, platinum blonde hair, expensive golden watch and an impeccable tailored suit.
she works as a real estator and has two exp. cars and a nice condo downtown, travels alot..bla bla.
she takes me for a ride, drives like crazy btw, then asks me do you know a place to go drinking? i tell her, yes and we go there.
place our orders, we drink chat and after awhile i kiss her. i knew from the moment i saw her that she would not turn down a kiss.to be cont.

“The rarity of the BDF 3 hooking up with a male 7 cannot be over-emphasized. It happens, but it happens so infrequently that it tells us nothing generalizable about the mating market. I have never seen nor heard of a male 8 or higher hooking up, even for a few seconds in a dark corner of a club, with a BDF 3, unless he was so blotto that he couldn’t clearly see the pig he was sticking.”

Heartiste, if you want to understand the truth of that statement, just do the following:

1. Create a fake internet profile. Can be a dating profile, casual sex profile etc.
2. Claim to be some old/fat/unattractive woman
3. See what kind of attention you attract.

You can sit here and not know the truth and pontificate out your ass or you can do an experiment.

Use empiricism. If not for that process, we’d still be thinking the sun went round the earth.

i have a a very high sex drive. lets say, i was mick jagger, there is no way i would turn down a new fresh 5 or 6 throwing herself at me. would likely turn down a 3 or 4 though, depending on how difficult it would be to get a higher value girl at that exact moment.

if you chat up a girl on the internet and once you meet her, and you are a naturally introvet quit type, though not necessarily shy, and after a few min of not saying much she asks, why are you so quit, am i not what you expected? whats your response?
i hesitated for a few seconds not knowing what to say (she was a 7 in the pics and 5ish irl)
well you look different but good. lots of people look different from ther profile pic. in fact last girl i dated said i look very differnt from my profile pic.

the correct answer in this situation i think would be a quick spontanous kiss, chicks really dig that, but if u had to choose a verbal answer. what would it be?

Don’t answer her. She is trying to set the frame and put you on the spot. If you still like her, just shrug the question off and talk about something else. If you’re really confident in having the upper hand, you could say, “You’re cute.” If not, I wouldn’t answer it.

I have to cut the line and quote this
“Finally, there are some readers who argue that alpha males dumpster dive a lot because “they just don’t give a fuck what people think”. Funny, this theory. Since when has a “don’t give a fuck” attitude been incompatible with adhering to standards for oneself? If anything, alpha male don’tgiveafuckness correlates highly with not giving a fuck about risking rejection from hot girls.”

That is a priceless profound observation.
The next time some self-congratulating fool tries to convince you that he is “such-a-player” or “such-a-man” that he doesn’t care what others think and he only cares about his own opinion please remember Ch writing the above paragraph.

Indeed this is a profound statement b/c those who claim they are not bound by social conventions etc and that they live by their own rules are indeed “whistling in the dark as they walk by the cemetery”.
They are trying to fool themselves and resort to the last trump card,
“I don’t need to show you no stinking badges! I am my own authority!”

And it’s kind of obvious they are no one’s authority and no one is envying them.

Ch you have spoken truth! Anyone who says they can do better or they deserve better has the incumbent responsibility to indeed do something to achieve that better status.

Seriously, I am impressed by this revelation and I think it indicts every “oppressed minority member” whether they be ignorant people of color or fat women w/ delusions of Rubenesque grandeur or gay men and feminist womyn or the chronic Liberal fools.
These groups wish us to believe they are sane and valid and use their very outlier existence as proof of that validity rather than demonstrate own worth.

Indeed Alpha males are Alpha b/c they don’t register fear of rejection nor second guess themselves so they go on to bag the higher prizes.
Any one who says he is just settling for a low quality date “for the night” is merely advertising their lack of worth as an Alpha.

All these people talking about alphas banging the occasional tubbo reminds me of the joke that roughly ends, “I laid bricks for hundreds of fine houses! But do they call me Jack the Bricklayer? No! But — ya fuck just ONE GOAT!” Alcohol is a hell of a drug, no doubt about it. God’s way of getting fat ‘n’ ugly chicks laid. (And the enlisted military is God’s way of getting some of them married.) Accidents will happen, but it doesn’t prove a rule. The OP’s point still stands. No alpha is going to soil his manhood squishing it between rancid meat curtains when he can have it gripped by the finest trim.

As for that…creature…in the article our esteemed blogger linked to, there’s not enough whiskey in Tennessee, nor bourbon in Kentucky to help that one bed a male 7. Aside from the tats, the horse face, the pudge on her somewhat mannish frame, there’s that hideous bulbous nose. So she says she’s been with guys who have washboard abs? I’ll bet she has. But just like big tits on a fat chick, abs on a 98-pound walking toothpick don’t count. I’ll bet they were Adonises to her though. It’s as close as she’d ever get to a man with abs. Ever. And that poor motherfucker had to be drunk out of his mind. Or stupid desperate. Or just pathetic. Or all of the above,

Off-topic, but I’m gratified to see so many people feel the same way about ink on women. It’s fucking vandalism; it’s repellent; I’m sick of it. I’ve gotten flak for this attitude. I still don’t understand it, though. I so hoped to see this idiotic phase of piercings and tats pass in the 1990s, but like sagged pants, that shit just won’t go away. Youth fashion seems weirdly stagnant in this regard. Imagine kids in the 1970s with crew cuts and Oxford shirts and poodle skirts because the style never evolved. It gives you an idea of how near endlessly fucked-up of our current culture is.

I won’t fuck someone that doesn’t intrigue but I have certainly spent my time amongst the unfortunate of this world. “Slumming it” really only by being seen with them because you can use their contrast to cast self-reflection upon the people in the room. Its a fun balancing act.

It’s part of not letting the designs of life have complete control over me, and I recommend understanding the horror that is the shock reaction to talking to someone so disgusting that you want to kill them then restraining that action and instead showing them ways to improve themselves.

It’s the ultimate SWPL bait, if those are your thing, which in particular thin short dark haired awkward swpl girls are for me.

Could the toxic cult of sentimentality in our PC society be a product of universities selecting for the personality trait of agreeableness and hence launching such agreeable people into positions of power?

“Most notably, participants scoring lower on Agreeableness expressed more anger towards and greater desire to punish a transgressor, and were more willing to engage in costly punishment, at least in our scenario. Our results suggest that some personality traits may contribute to underpinning individual variation in social enforcement of cooperation.”

We select for agreeableness. It’s called public school and “grades” (decided not objectively, but by Leftist teachers who use their grading as a purity test). Rinse and repeat for 15 years, and you have excellent stock for The Combine.

The thing with black guys(generally) is that they have different sexual preference. A woman thats considered a 10 by white guys, is considered too skinny and less attractive. Black guys are aware though that this type of woman is considered a 10 by some people, but is a 6 or a 7 in their eyes. The same is true is vice versa.

You cant just pick your sexual preference and taste and say thats the end all be all.

Beauty is objective, and so is ugly. Different groups and individuals are going to have different standards for what visual cues of beauty they require and which ugly traits they will not tolerate.

White guys generally prize smallness and will tolerate meth-face. White girls who look like someone dragged them over 10 yards of gravel can work as prostitutes and actually make money at it in all White areas.

Black guys also prefer smallness, but will not tolerate meth-face. A Black woman can be overweight and still make money as a prostitute serving only Black clients. A Black woman with a messed up face can’t give away free blowjobs.

There are exceptions, but this is how things are generally. I know if I am standing next to a White woman whose skin is yellow and smells like a corpse, if the average American White guy had been in prison 10 years and we were the only women within a 500 mile radius, he would shag the corpse, catch hepatitis, and say, “Well, at least I didn’t shag a fatty.”

You are welcome to believe your preferences make you better, but we are not obligated to agree. You people not only shag, but celebrate and marry women others would cast out of their village, longhouse, teepee, or kraal after welding an iron bell around her neck with “unclean” stamped on it.

An African guy would consider that a good thing. Many, many White American guys though, will pass over a fat, churchgoing, gospel singing fat chick to bang a crack hoe. What’s even funnier is that even if she has signs any cop would tell you are on the classic list of symptoms, he will attribute them to anything but the girl being on drugs. It’s funny.

I’m not saying all White guys are bottomfeeders, just that well, among bottomfeeders, it’s probably not the best idea to dick size about whose bottom is more rock.

Jedz, the U.S. is not the entire planet, and since technically our murder rate is higher, I assure you that a fair proportion of them are for moral reasons. Recently, an African American male killed his mom for being a slut. He was a crazy Christian, but to be fair, he’s not more crazy than some crazy Muslims and Vodounsi I know. Just the Vodun practitioner would have also killed the guy who shagged her if the affair was shameful enough that he’d put mom out of her misery.

Why do you need for us to be statistically worse than your imaginary race so badly?

Jedz, I’m comfortable with the statistics. I just don’t rely on them for my sense of self worth.

I also don’t believe everything any government tells me. I understand the game. You don’t.

See, how it works is that you think you’re being free minded because you disbelieve some of what you are told, but you fail because what you choose to believe or disbelieve coincides exactly with what would make you feel good about yourself. What makes you feel good about yourself is always something collective and never something individual.

I feel good about myself because despite my disadvantages, I’ve managed to do pretty well for myself by not squandering the few advantages I do have. I don’t need all Africans or even most Africans or even really some Africans to be okay people to value myself. If every other African or Native American was a horrible person, I would still be okay with myself.

However, I am aware that people of my cultures tend to be far more involved in our families’ wellbeing than we are constantly pressured to be by what is essentially, White culture. Africans in particular tend to be pathologically moralist, which is why we are vulnerable, whenever there is a cultural upheaval, to adopt a religion that encourages more of that.

In many of our belief systems, even an unborn baby can choose to be evil, and torture prospective young mothers with repeated miscarriages. What do you figure such people would believe about post conception birth control or abortion?

You know nothing of African people, only what happens to us when we are pressured into being more like generic White people, and of course fail in this because it is against our blood. Of course many of us would behave insanely. Who is well adjusted to an insane culture is insane.

My question is that if you are so invested in this emasculating, unsustainable, unnatural insanity, why are you here?

If you are happy with your culture and thing it is perfect and superior in every way, what the hell are you doing on a website that specializes in saving the broken products of the insanity?

Indeed, when i checked African models i haven’t found them attractive, except few that were exceptionally beautifull(skinny, almost white facelike – by contures of her face not necesarilly color ), so agreed definitely.

Thanks for the link. This is the second major treatment of the “nice guy” idea by Psychology Today, but the first that framed it in some other way than being nice is a sucker play or “Girls don’t like nice guys. They like assholes”.

This article took a little deeper slant on it than even a Rollo Tomassi treatment into explaining the difference between a nice guy and “nice guy” and why women label the latter as a negative type. The “nice guy” is nice only because he wants a relationship that is not reciprocated and hangs out being ‘nice’ hoping the situation will change. So his “niceness” is with the expectation of reciprocation and therefore women label him as a negative because all he wanted was to get fucked and so he really isn’t a nice guy.

Either way. It is stupid to be either a nice guy or a “nice guy”. Women either come to Jesus or you walk. Statistically they never change so never be a “nice guy”. I can often see the Game version of this when Jezebel shows some exchange of texts between a man who they call a player and a woman. When the man figures out he isn’t getting sex he stops being “nice” and basically tells the woman to fuck off in various forms and Jezbians react to how he wasn’t being nice anymore. But who cares. Fuck me or fuck off. What are we gonna be friends? I’m so fucking sure.

The first article from Psychology Today said that “Being nice” all the time didn’t force the other individual to invest in the relationship and therefore didn’t value either the “nice” person nor the relationship.

So basically this is how the manosphere leaks into the mainstream. It will be a slow steady leakage of ideas absorbed by main stream writers, diluted, shined up, made more acceptable and with a escape clause for women rather than a straight up damning indictment as we do it.

But this the idea I hope that sticks quick. This whole Nice thing, in either form gets rejected by all men, and that men learn that being an orbiter is stupid, demeaning, and counterproductive for themselves and for all other men as well.

‘All men are discriminating’. Hmmm. But let’s leave that alone for a minute.

‘only alpha males can act with freedom to satisfy their preferences.’ Yeah, so we’re talking about a guy who, to all appearances, is alpha. But then he goes slumming, and you think: must be something deficient about that guy, not a true alpha. Somehow, this guy can’t ‘act with freedom to satisfy his preferences’ or he isn’t very discriminating. Either way, you boot him out of the alpha category based on the fact that he went slumming. Don’t you see the circularity? The 3-4 female fatty can’t score an alpha by definition.

BTW- I just stumbled on this site. Y’all all mostly sociopaths and possibly insane, but, you might be right, and it’s definitely a hilarious counterpoint to mainstream thought. My own motivation in this vale of tears, as I understand it, is to SEARCH FOR TRUTH, which I gather gets filtered by your Freudian assumptions into some kind of strategy for scoring poon, which maybe it is, but it doesn’t feel that way to me and in any event is not a very successful strategy, as I can attest, but since, consciously anyway, that’s not what I’m after, rejecting your Freudian view, it doesn’t bother me too much, so…have a nice weekend, I guess.

5 and 6 notches from girls with a fine personality is one thing. A 4 (or lower) BDF on the other hand will never happen.

If this abomination of overweight uglyness would find an alpha (or better beta) male in a moment of weakness and despair, her slim chances or getting laid depend strongly on the quality of available prostitutes.
He who can afford a prostitute would never, even with deep blue balls, ever consider HER as a fuckable alternative.

I hear there are a few homeless dudes with drug issues that are quite handsome, maybe thats how she got her claimed lays?

Perhaps they might if she was actually nice…though she might look different if she cared about that. Some writers talk a big game online, but in person, they’re not as ballsy. I suspect this is true for women almost universally. I know it’s true for me. I would never speak as frankly among strangers as I do here or on my blog. I wouldn’t curse at all around my parents.

I also still have that southern female tendency that if two men are talking, I tune out whatever it is they’re saying. I’m around like the furniture and to bring more beer or food or something, but I do not hear what they are discussing. It’s not my business. If they address me, I nod and smile, or answer a question cordially and succinctly, but then I fade into the background as soon as they’re not looking at me.

One could say I’m having a field day here that doesn’t exist for me offline. Perhaps she is as well.

As a mixed race black (half-white) male, I can agree with you somewhat about your comments about black males in the USA but only in the context of America and only as a broad generalization in the USA (there are of course, a few exceptions). It is definantly true for the USA but I would disagree with you when it comes to Canada and UK. And yes, I have lived all 3 places extensively -USA, Canada and the UK. I can tell you that in the UK and especially Canada, your comments would sound pretty absurd and more likely an attempt to stimulate confidence in a segment of bitter white males than revealing of the truth. Growing up in Canada, I can tell you black males are viewed very differently in say, Toronto/Montreal/Vancouver where many black males are pretty much romanticized, elevated and (ridiculously) stereotyped as the “essence of cool” by plenty of elite white women that would be easily be deemed 8s and up by Canadian standards (or 9s or up by USA standards). My exp. in Canada and UK, I have met only a few black males who don’t have similar status as white males in regard to white females. In the USA in my exp., its almost the opposite – black males have much lower status IMO and likewise , the black males have zero standards as far as I can tell (Of course, in most immigrant countries such as the Carribean, higher-ranking black males know about the US black male low status and precisely avoid the USA when migrating to a first-world country for this very reason). I can tell you from experience that its very common in both the UK and Canada for black males in all white elite schools to be the most popular kids in school and even later as professionals considered treated as high-ranking as any white male as far as I can tell. It has been this way for decades also. I know its very hard for an American male to wrap their head around this but its completely true. I grew up with plenty of alpha white males in Canada that they will all easily attest to this status. None of these guys are PC. My exp. in UK, i found it very similar to Canada. If you still dont believe me… Just see who Kanye was dating before fame vs. say Drake.

Somewhat surprisingly, the reason men are picky is that they invest resources in their mates and offspring. If you are going to invest such resources you better make sure that the women is healthy or whatever. Male birds who don’t invest resources in their offspring other than sex are not picky at all. They will have sex with whatever female bird will have them.

Theoretically, if low investment cad like behavior in a population is evolutionarily successful, it will lead to men evolving to be more attractive/alpha and a let up on evolutionary pressures on the women to be beautiful. If high investment dad like behavior in a population is evolutionarily successful, it will lead to the men evolving to be more beta and evolutionary pressure on the women to be beautiful.

A bit off topic, but some girls won’t allow you to be an “indiscriminate alpha male”. If they think your SMV is too far greater than theirs, they assume it could never blossom into a LTR and so rejct you in order to avoid being disappointed when you dump them.

For example, Im black and Ive never fucked a girl darker than me. I tried, but they often ain’t having it. (this is one of the reasons I suspect Obama’s marriage is a fraud) You can’t call this “shit testing” because I know what that looks like and this ain’t it. Ive recieved the same attitude from some single moms too. Its this weird kind of “Im not going to let you get my hopes up so you can hurt me…”

So they reject you first.

Now, Ive never experienced this with white girls, but I wonder if any of you white guys have?

Yup, it’s happened to me. Girls who are 6s or less can come on really hard if they’re major league sluts who will sleep with anybody, but they usually react in disbelief and reject me if I try to make a move. It’s only 7s and above who are really receptive to me. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

I get you. I just don’t think the guys here prone to freaking out over the idea that someone might want to shag someone who isn’t “hot” are living far enough off the grid to have such concerns.

When I say that, it’s not a criticism of their lifestyle specifically, but modern urban life in general. If all the women can bring to the table is their looks, it’s going to have a higher priority than other features. So it piqued my curiosity to consider what Corvinus has going on in his life that he would consider a sub 6 who wasn’t chasing him down and jumping on his stuff.

Men vote with their feet. Here is Match.com’s singles mixer program — marketed as “Stir” — having trouble enticing men to attend their mixers for older singles. In other words, men are less interested in older single women than older single women are in men their age. So much for all the “cougar” B.S.

The article is pretty good, but veered off into hamsterland with the society teaching men that only young and skinny women are attractive. Society doesn’t need to teach that young, slim women are attractive, and in this age of the silicone semicentinarian cyborg, it’s not only young women being promoted.

Men don’t want to go to these kinds of events because usually if a woman over 30 is available and has to resort to singles events, it’s because something crucial is wrong with her, or she’s picker than she should be about the wrong things.