I don't think these sentiments would be the same if Israel had never been created. If the UN had gone with the federal plan and created a single state of Palestine, Israel would never have existed and the wars and violence(potentially) wouldn't have happened. It's a lot of speculation to assume sentiments would be the same when Israel started the war in 1948 by attacked the villages on the road to Jerusalem. Israel declared independence in May of 1948 and the rest is history. I believe that things would be markedly different, including the reduction in influence of Salafist Islam in the region.

Click to expand...

I can see that argument having validity. I dont know if there would be so much a reduction in violence against Jews. Granted, a lack of the Israeli state might have given Muslim groups less of a reason to attack, but Muslim hatred against Jews is all but foundational in Islam, like Christianity. They did bungle the Prophet's message, after all. Israel is a living example as to why Abrahamic religion is so awful. As far back as the Balfour Declaration, was based in such a cynical, crazy view of what the future could be. Christian support for Israel seems to be rooted in recreating the Great Temple, which would then initiate the rapture, and seemingly kill Jews along with all the other unbelievers. Stupid shit.

I can see that argument having validity. I dont know if there would be so much a reduction in violence against Jews. Granted, a lack of the Israeli state might have given Muslim groups less of a reason to attack, but Muslim hatred against Jews is all but foundational in Islam, like Christianity. They did bungle the Prophet's message, after all. Israel is a living example as to why Abrahamic religion is so awful. As far back as the Balfour Declaration, was based in such a cynical, crazy view of what the future could be. Christian support for Israel seems to be rooted in recreating the Great Temple, which would then initiate the rapture, and seemingly kill Jews along with all the other unbelievers. Stupid shit.

My solution is to use the principles of fairness and justice to create a lasting peace.

Click to expand...

Another corny platitude with no real substance behind it. What is your solution to the oppressive policies of the theocratic Palestinian regime? I am talking about the policies that impact Palestinian women, homosexuals, and apostates. 'Israel needs to stop doing...' is not an answer to this question, for the record.

...

Do you support Muslims giving back the African land that they stole from the indigenous people and the groups that predate them?

I'm a bit hawkish on Islam, so I think I can throw out a few broad, agreeable things here-

1. A significant long-term goal of many Islamists is to build or acquire a nuclear weapon and use it, likely in Europe. We absolutely cannot allow that to happen. Whatever our policies are, they have to account for the strategy of preventing terrorists or theocratic states from getting nuclear weapons. We are already in a bad position considering Pakistan and North Korea. That slope can't slide. This means isolationism is not an option. We can never take our eyes off Iran or Nigeria, especially.

2. The human rights abuses by Saudi Arabia are completely unacceptable given their regional influence, the long leash they give to religious psychopaths must be tightened as hard as possible, and we need to do whatever we can to reduce their leverage with oil so we can accomplish this, even if we have to throw our diplomatic and corporate weight around like an "empire" to do it. They have no excuse for their behavior, and they owe us fucking huge for 9/11.

3. All secular or moderate movements in Islam should receive praise on the international stage, and all religious violence should be internationally condemned, at each instance.

4. ISIS' ability to hold territory, write and enforce laws, levy taxes, and confiscate oil must be whack-a-mole'd with no exceptions. They cannot be allowed to become a de facto state anywhere, not even in Africa. We should act unilaterally here if necessary and spare no cost.

5. No fighting age males with able bodies should be allowed into the United States from any middle eastern country, with certain obvious exceptions (education, work specialty, political asylum, etc). Increase the female refugees, giving preference to female children over male children.

6. We must deliberate before attacking a state, and seek congressional approval. Attacking a country is not the same as attacking a terrorist camp.

'What is your solution to the oppressive policies of the theocratic Palestinian regime? I am talking about the policies that impact Palestinian women, homosexuals, and apostates. 'Israel needs to stop doing...' is not an answer to this question, for the record.

...

Do you support Muslims giving back the African land that they stole from the indigenous people and the groups that predate them?'

'What is your solution to the oppressive policies of the theocratic Palestinian regime? I am talking about the policies that impact Palestinian women, homosexuals, and apostates. 'Israel needs to stop doing...' is not an answer to this question, for the record.

...

Do you support Muslims giving back the African land that they stole from the indigenous people and the groups that predate them?'

Click to expand...

Your irrelevant questions have nothing to do with what we've been discussing. More pathetic deflection.

Your irrelevant questions have nothing to do with what we've been discussing. More pathetic deflection.

Click to expand...

They're absolutely relevant. You're just too stupid to understand why. Palestinian society is islamofascist. Israel ceding land isn't going to change that. So what is your solution for dealing with the Palestinians and their violent, oppressive policies?

They're absolutely relevant. You're just too stupid to understand why. Palestinian society is islamofascist. Israel ceding land isn't going to change that. So what is your solution for dealing with the Palestinians and their violent, oppressive policies?

Click to expand...

Again, it's entirely irrelevant to the idea of justice and a peaceful solution between the two parties. Attempting to reframe this discussion isn't going to work, so you can just stop now. There needs to be two states of roughly equal size with full independence and internationally recognized borders and governments. Or, a single nonreligious state of Palestine with equal rights for all citizens regardless of religion. I don't really know which would be better.

Overcomplicated and overdramatized by the left because it's been infilitrated by islamists for years now and the Democrat party is designed around pandering idiotic policies to groups with high birth rates or they wouldn't be competitive.

Click to expand...

Converts are about 4 times as likely to commit terrorist attacks ad opposed to born muslims.

Again, it's entirely irrelevant to the idea of justice and a peaceful solution between the two parties. Attempting to reframe this discussion isn't going to work, so you can just stop now. There needs to be two states of roughly equal size with full independence and internationally recognized borders and governments. Or, a single nonreligious state of Palestine with equal rights for all citizens regardless of religion. I don't really know which would be better.

Click to expand...

No, dingus, it's not irrelevant. We're not dealing with two sides that advocate for peace and egalitarianism. We're dealing with one side that's relatively secular, peace-oriented, and forward thinking, and another that's ultra-theocratic, hegemonic, violent, and 7th century minded. If you honestly believe that a terrorist-governed territory deserves sovereignty, additional land, and the recognition of the international community, then you might as well be a supporter of the Islamic State. You don't seem to have any problems with the Palestinians and their similarly Draconian precepts and policies. There already exists a state where citizens have equal rights regardless of their religion. It's called Israel. Compare and contrast the policies of the Palestinians with the policies of Israel. Which one do you think is more compatible with the modern world? There can be no two-state solution until the Palestinians reject terrorism and cast out Hamas from the government.

"In 1945, Yugoslavia sought to indict the Mufti as a war criminal for his role in recruiting 20,000 Muslim volunteers for the SS, who participated in the killing of Jews in Croatia and Hungary. He escaped from French detention in 1946, however, and continued his fight against the Jews from Cairo and later Beirut. He died in 1974.

A new document attesting to the connection between Nazi Germany and the Mufti was released in March 2017. In the letter published by the National Library of Israel Archives, SS Chief Heinrich Himmler heaps praise upon Mufti al-Husseini, stating that the Nazi leadership has been closely following the battle of freedom-seeking Arabs - and especially in Palestine - against the Jewish invaders. Himmler ends the letter by bidding the Mufti warm wishes for the continuation of your battle until the big victory. This letter was delivered in the Fall of 1943, two years after the Mufti's famous meeting with Adolf Hitler."

When exactly was he sidelined? After the religious leader recruited 20,000 Muslims to fight for the Nazis?