I see you're an Orc fanboy, so no matter what anyone else says, you're still going to see it your own way. It's because of people like you why other races besides Orcs & Humans get such shitty development. World of Warcraft has evolved. It is not World of Orcs vs Humans.

As for how much weight Forsaken and Blood Elves have. They have the Plague and the Sunwell, so yeah...

And a near total disinterst in the Horde. That alone would make them poor candidates. The lack of trust and respect other have for Sylvanas makes her completely unsuited; at least LT could be trusted - IF you could persuade him working for the Horde is the best thing for his people. But that "best interest" excuse only lasts so long. Waht you wnat si soemone who has the best interests of the Horde (as a whole) in mind. Someone respected by all, yet willing to stand up to them if and when necessary.

Vol'jin - "used" to be suitable. But he raised rebellion against the Warchief despite his oath. Yeah - its a pity they brought it in, yeah it was "cool" at the time but there it is. Others may have followed...but HE led. I personally don't think he came out of 5.3 that well. But that's just me. Overall, however - I think he si the front runner with his major flaw bieng the relative size of his Tribe. As a rising star, however - maybe he can get one of the BIG Troll tribes/nations to back him.

Baine? Young and inexperienced. He also appears to be respected, is liked by the Alliance and has Cairnes legacy as co-ruler of the Horde to back him up. He'd be suitable but he'd need advisors and as with Vol'jin it partially would depend on how the Orcs see him for violating the Oath.

That leaves the Orcs racial leader as a candidate. Saurfang and Thrall would both seem to be good choices.

Other candidates? Rexxar. Untouched by the Civil War, yet respected by both sides. A potential.
A Council? Unlikely given issues with the Forsaken and so on.
Doing away with the Warchief? Downgrading it to a merely military title akin to the Alliances Supreme Commander? Again an idea.
An Orcs who fought for Garrosh - out of honor? Nazgrim would have been a good choice under this criteria.

So...Vol'jin. Baine. Rexxar. Saurfang. Thrall. Anyone else?

Personally - what I'd like to see the next Xpac focus on is rebinding the Horde together. To actually unify them. They've had three civil wars in three years. Not good. That's also not counting in the BElfs against Kael, nor the various splits in the Orcish Horde.

Right now, the Horde doesn't seem able to provide the protection the Forsaken want and need against the Alliance. Gallywix doesn't care so long as he gets paid...but as long as he is with the Horde, he's esentially locked out of the Alliance markets. LT will have to decide whether staying in a dsinitegrating Horde is inded best for his people. Ji came to the horde to help out - and found that he wasn't treated that well and the Horde essentially stood for everything he opposed. And since many of the Orcs sided with Garrosh, there is going to be a certain element of distruct against one of the Hordes more powerful members.

Of copusre, all this is based on the characters right now. If Blizzard wanted Varian to be Warchief, that'd be the case.

Yeah, no, Blood Elves and Forsaken can suck it up, it's not like they have much weight to throw around to begin with. The core of this game is Orcs vs. Humans, if you can't come to terms with that, then please, quit WoW, find a different game, and stop shitting up the forums. Doomhammer and Thrall were overall good Warchiefs, Garrosh had his good moments, as well, sure overall Garrosh and Blackhand sucked, but even that isn't as bad as the Banshee Queen, Lor'themar, or Baine becoming Warchief. Just because it's different, doesn't make it better.

Their standing army is probably just as powerful as what the Orcs can bring.
But this new Warchief is the perfect time to show the Orcs that it's not "Orcs vs. Humans" anymore.
Orcs are done, they are finished, they are history.

Because the Horde is broken at the end of the siege and would have no say in anything Varian wants.

Also, he isn't choosing the Warchief. I would imagine (hope) he would choose Saurfang to temporarily be the Warchief, while the Horde gets it shit together and votes on a new one. You don't want a repeat of last time a Warchief was chosen on the fly.

Uh, the actual Horde helps remove a problematic dictator and his small cadre of troops. The Horde isn't just a sitting duck at the mercy of the Alliance. lol The Alliance doesn't "win".

oh my god. You can't even see it can you?
The blood elves that willingly followed Kael'thas are in the same school as the orcs that now willingly follow Garrosh. The blood elves have nothing to suggest they know better about leading or not screwing up anymore then orcs are.

Yeah and I used it as an example, since most orcs follow Garrosh willingly, while a orcish minority is rising against him. It is the same situation, but reversed.

And given how the blood elves were considering going back to the alliance, who in the right mind wants a blood elves leader whos loyalties would extend to the hordes rival faction on a whim? No.. thats just beyond ridiculous.

Did I personally argue for a blood elven Warchief? No I did not, Lor'themar would be wasted in that position, though there are fitting candidates for the title and not all of them are orcs.

He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

I'd prefer the next Warchief to either be Saurfang or Lor'themar. Vol'jin seems increasingly overrated in my eyes; the aforementioned Orc/Blood Elf have much more merit to me.

Also, pointless to argue with Trassk; he's still stuck in his Warcraft: Orcs & Humans attitude concerning the positions of King and Warchief. In a way, I want Lor'themar to the be Warchief just to piss off the 'Hardcore' Horde players who are still living in a Pre-TBC fantasy.

Last edited by Alenarien; 2013-08-23 at 06:40 PM.

"It hath been found by experience that no matter how decent, intelligent or thoughtful the reasoning of a conservative may be, as an argument with a liberal is advanced, the probability of being accused of ‘bigotry’, ‘hatred’ or ‘intolerance’ approaches 1." - Cranmer's Law

I'd prefer the next Warchief to either be Saurfang or Lor'themar. Vol'jin seems increasingly overrated in my eyes; the aforementioned Orc/Blood Elf have much more merit to me.

Also, pointless to argue with Trassk; he's still stuck in his Warcraft: Orcs & Humans attitude concerning the positions of King and Warchief. In a way, I want Lor'themar to the be Warchief just to piss off the 'Hardcore' Horde players who are still living in a Pre-TBC fantasy.

oh funny that, since the devs themselves said that warcraft IS at its core orcs vs humans.

Just because you decided its not, doesn't make it so. Infact it just means your trying to debunk the developers on words in favor of your own

I can't help but think that they are possibly foreshadowing Rexxar's return with Hearthstone. I mean why would he of all characters be in the Hunter role? Why not put Hemet Nesingwary, or some other random hunter? You may think that because he's a well established W3 character, but if that is the case then why use Garrosh as Warrior instead of Grom? There is a very strong chance that Rexxar will make an appearence next expac one way or another. As for him being warchief, if you want to look for someone that is on good terms with the Alliance, last I checked he was on pretty good terms with Jaina (except for him leading an army to murder her father and all...). I don't know why I keep throwing the Rex argument, but I have a strong feeling he will return

oh funny that, since the devs themselves said that warcraft IS at its core orcs vs humans.

Just because you decided its not, doesn't make it so. Infact it just means your trying to debunk the developers on words in favor of your own

Where did they say this? It shouldn't be hard to find a quotation; preferably a recent one.

"It hath been found by experience that no matter how decent, intelligent or thoughtful the reasoning of a conservative may be, as an argument with a liberal is advanced, the probability of being accused of ‘bigotry’, ‘hatred’ or ‘intolerance’ approaches 1." - Cranmer's Law

I'd prefer the next Warchief to either be Saurfang or Lor'themar. Vol'jin seems increasingly overrated in my eyes; the aforementioned Orc/Blood Elf have much more merit to me.

Also, pointless to argue with Trassk; he's still stuck in his Warcraft: Orcs & Humans attitude concerning the positions of King and Warchief. In a way, I want Lor'themar to the be Warchief just to piss off the 'Hardcore' Horde players who are still living in a Pre-TBC fantasy.

I don't think it's necessarily a Pre-TBC fantasy, or really an odd thing, to think that the leaders of the Alliance and Horde should be the races they started with. I mean, personally, I'm fine either way, but I'd prefer if the next Warchief were to be an Orc, because it's really the most logical thing, in my eyes.

Think about it this way. What if the roles were swapped, and a new High King of the Alliance had to be named? And then, instead of a Human, which I'm sure there'd be at least a few candidates for, someone like Captain Jarod Shadowsong, or some other Night Elf stepped up? (I said Shadowsong because he's the only really notable Night Elf I can remember right now. I know there are more.) It just wouldn't be right, because it's contrary to the founding culture of the Alliance. A Night Elf would never sit the throne in Stormwind - he'd probably end up making Darnassus, or some other, more Night Elf oriented city the capital of the Alliance. It'd be a gigantic shift in the culture of the whole Alliance.

The same goes for the Horde in my eyes, because... Say Baine got the title of Warchief (not saying I think he ever would.) It'd end up with a lot more of a peaceful Horde, and the Tauren would be the more primary race of the Horde. That's just how it is, in my eyes. The Warchief, and the King of the Alliance, should both be of the races that actually founded the Horde/Alliance in the first place, to preserve it's structure and culture.

The Warchief, and the King of the Alliance, should both be of the races that actually founded the Horde/Alliance in the first place, to preserve it's structure and culture.

The Alliance and the Horde are the sum of their parts; that's what the Siege of Orgrimmar is going to show us. A Horde without the Trolls/Forsaken/Tauren/Blood Elves/Goblin is not the Horde; it's just a power-hungry Warchief and his fanatical followers.

One could make an argument about the factions needing to be lead by their original founders; but overall I think this has worked pretty poorly over the years. The Alliance has had a huge focus on the Vanilla races, for example; leaving the Draenei overwhelmingly neglected. I'd like to see this change; and I hope it will.

"It hath been found by experience that no matter how decent, intelligent or thoughtful the reasoning of a conservative may be, as an argument with a liberal is advanced, the probability of being accused of ‘bigotry’, ‘hatred’ or ‘intolerance’ approaches 1." - Cranmer's Law

What the fuck? Still stuck in what mentality? The Orcs rallied every race under their banner led by Thrall. Now it's all different? The trolls haven't done shit sorry, neither has the Tauren, and the undead have done nothing either. The blood elves do not care for the Horde, they joined because the Alliance scumbagged them. And you don't want an Orc leader? Okay....

Here's an idea. With Sylvanas not really being around since the Battle of Andorhal, she likely has the most uninjured, fresh soldiers. Even if she herself won't be the new Warchief, I'd imagine she would have a stromg saying in the matter. That's a good omen for Lor'Themar. Of course the ones who gave her the Undercity back were Thrall and Vol'Jin. Thrall hopefully dies, so that leaves the troll.

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Originally Posted by Dragoncurry

What the fuck? Still stuck in what mentality? The Orcs rallied every race under their banner led by Thrall. Now it's all different? The trolls haven't done shit sorry, neither has the Tauren, and the undead have done nothing either. The blood elves do not care for the Horde, they joined because the Alliance scumbagged them. And you don't want an Orc leader? Okay....

Well it really is true that they had an Orc leader who pretty much appointed a successor without asking any of his advisors about it, and said successor turned out to be a genocidal orc-suppremacist dick who alienated the horde more than Sylvanas could. We are now going to kill him. I can perfectly see all the non-orcs being fed up.

Well it really is true that they had an Orc leader who pretty much appointed a successor without asking any of his advisors about it, and said successor turned out to be a genocidal orc-suppremacist dick who alienated the horde more than Sylvanas could. We are now going to kill him. I can perfectly see all the non-orcs being fed up.

Wait so Thrall needs the approval of the rest of the horde before deciding the leader of the Orcs? Like how the Tauren asked everyone else before appointing Baine? Do you know why he's the WARCHIEF? Because he's the strongest of all the Horde clans. And I don't have a problem with "we don't like garrosh so we gonna waste him." I have a problem with a weaker, minority faction of the Horde holding power as a Warchief. The Orcs are the strongest, don't think otherwise.

Btw, my favorite race was the Undead and Human in WC3, and a night elf warrior in WoW so don't think I'm some dumbass Orc fanboy.

Dreadlords also leave behind their armor when killed. The plot thickens...

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None of the Orcs would accept it. The only thing stopping the different clans from fighting among eachother is having a Warchief that rules over all and can keep them in check. They won't listen to an Orc leader who is not the Warchief. Nor would they listen to a Warchief that is not an Orc.

If Blizzard indeed decides to go with this decision then they've just contradicted or retconned Orc society. And come on, seriously? That lame weakling as Warchief? He can't do shit. The Warchief needs to be physically strong as well as a good strategist.

Realization 1) They're a fiction. Orc's don't exist.

Realization 2) This is Blizzard... they can say "this is a new generation of Orcs" and you'd accept it.

Realization 3) They could use that "old ideal" as new quests/stories of rebellion for future expansions.

I mean, hell, the sheer idea that Orcs could be settled somewhere on Azeroth and living at peace with the Alliance was already ludicrous. The whole idea of Thrall, based on your assumed logic of what an Orc is/isn't is also ludicrous.

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Originally Posted by Alenarien

Where did they say this? It shouldn't be hard to find a quotation; preferably a recent one.

o_O

That's been the whole theme of Pandaria and what Blizz/Metzen have been boasting about for the past near 2 years about MoP! They kept talking about "Getting back to Warcraft's roots".

A quick google search landed a quote from Metzen himself in an interview in 2012 about Pandaria:

...the pillars of the franchise are orcs and humans; it really is the Alliance and Horde by extension, and it really is those two groups beating the brains out of each other for an extended period of time. That’s always gotta be what Warcraft is about...

"Tell them only that the Lich King is dead... and that World of Warcraft... died with him..."

Originally Posted by BenBos

That's the ONLY reason you would post 9600 posts over 3 years: a mission of hate.