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Interesting article. I personally don't see eating meat as morally wrong but neither do I see it as a right, so an argument such as that in the article is the sort of one that I would consider. I think for me its in a similar category to considering the farming methods used in my meat purchasing.

"Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

Well, to be fair I always claimed that I don't think that there is an entity controlling us all, that's what you suggested.

I actually didnt suggest that, I was just stating that our views differ.

Originally Posted by Boris

Now you're directly contradicting what you said earlier about that very intelligent robots should also be treated fairly. Which of your two standpoints would you like to hold?

You just did, though.

No, I didnt.
I think that they will never be the same, but I also think they should be treated fairly. Even if a robot human were created, It is by definition never going to be the same, but I would still not want it to be indiscriminately destroyed. This was pretty clear.

Originally Posted by Boris

So basically, "I don't think this is wrong because it's depressing, I think this is wrong because it is depressing."

Nope. I do think its depressing, but that has no bearing on why I think its wrong. I dont see determinism as being the probable answer. This was also pretty clear

@Everyone else - Normal discussion:

Originally Posted by fish food carl

EDIT: When I say it's not predestination, I simply mean that nothing predicts or comprehends the cosmic "chain of events". Our comparatively simple choices are still present (as they appear to us), it's just that there is an explanation for them that extends beyond "I chose to do this for no apparent reason".

My lack of understanding of determinism is no doubt problematic, but my argument is towards the statement from earlier that free will does not exist or is an illusion.

Im inclined to think that the "i chose to do this for no apparent reason" thing is entirely possible. Random factors can influence decisions, for example the weather, so how does this fit into the suggestion that free will doesnt exist? Especially if we are not talking about predetermination?

Even if life is to some extent predictable, I simply dont agree with the view that the entire universe could be predicted therefore eliminating any randomness and indeed free will. Im more inclined to sit somewhere in between.

Originally Posted by kreggurree

Interesting article. I personally don't see eating meat as morally wrong but neither do I see it as a right, so an argument such as that in the article is the sort of one that I would consider. I think for me its in a similar category to considering the farming methods used in my meat purchasing.

Well, from a biological standpoint (omnivores/ carnivores etc) it is right. I dont think you could ever argue that it is morally wrong for a tiger to hunt prey to survive when that is what it has evolved to do.

Same goes for humans doesnt it? We have evolved to do it, so why is it morally wrong? I think the morality comes into play when we talk about how those animals are treated prior to us actually eating them. Possibly also with the whole overbreeding thing :P.

Well, from a biological standpoint (omnivores/ carnivores etc) it is right. I dont think you could ever argue that it is morally wrong for a tiger to hunt prey to survive when that is what it has evolved to do.

Same goes for humans doesnt it? We have evolved to do it, so why is it morally wrong? I think the morality comes into play when we talk about how those animals are treated prior to us actually eating them. Possibly also with the whole overbreeding thing :P.

I think we agree Paul, I mean I don't see it as A human right like when we talk about our right to freedom of speech etc.

Im inclined to think that the "i chose to do this for no apparent reason" thing is entirely possible. Random factors can influence decisions, for example the weather, so how does this fit into the suggestion that free will doesnt exist? Especially if we are not talking about predetermination?

You can predict particle interactions quite simply (relatively speaking of course) using an amplituhedron. Given enough processing power, we could model the environment which gave rise to the weather that influenced your decision.

You can predict particle interactions quite simply (relatively speaking of course) using an amplituhedron. Given enough processing power, we could model the environment which gave rise to the weather that influenced your decision.

You could model it, but you couldnt predict the full chain of events with 100% accuracy, given the sheer number of factors and possibilities.

I dont think we ever could, even if we get pretty darn close (which is of course my opinion, but what I also believe :P ).

In other news, I am turning PhD chapters into papers and just came across a chapter sub-heading I forgot I ever wrote, and can't work out whether I wrote this in earnest or I was just amusing myself at the time:Being-in-the-Zone as the 'unrealized in fact' of feeling being felt by radiation Or: Are we trees to the world's painters?

In other news, I am turning PhD chapters into papers and just came across a chapter sub-heading I forgot I ever wrote, and can't work out whether I wrote this in earnest or I was just amusing myself at the time:Being-in-the-Zone as the 'unrealized in fact' of feeling being felt by radiation Or: Are we trees to the world's painters?

"Being-in-the-Zone as the 'unrealized in fact' of feeling being felt by radiation" I recognise and understand each word, but the order they are arranged in is causing some confusion.

Jag, Im sure you forgot about Von Braun who wanted to make space rockets originally.

And what happened? His academic peers said "nah werhner, this space shit doesn't make sense. Serious academics build specialised rockets for blowing things up, what you're doing is silly. Now build me a V2 before I taunt you a second time."

Originally Posted by Kanye West

I think what Kanye West is going to mean is something similar to what Steve Jobs means. I am undoubtedly, you know, Steve of Internet, downtown, fashion, culture. Period.

Originally Posted by Kanye West

I am God's vessel. But my greatest pain in life is that I will never be able to see myself perform live.

And what happened? His academic peers said "nah werhner, this space shit doesn't make sense. Serious academics build specialised rockets for blowing things up, what you're doing is silly. Now build me a V2 before I taunt you a second time."