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Never Forget

Hi TWC,

To my fellow Americans and anyone else who remembers, I just wanted to remind you all to take a moment to reflect on today. I remember I was getting ready for school that morning, and I came downstairs ready to roll. I was puzzled to find my mom sobbing in front of the TV. I processed as much of what had happened as an 8 year old could I suppose, but my only solace was the prospect of national vengeance.

Looking back, the event and subsequent history are complicated. Nevertheless, we can all spare a simple act of somber remembrance for the victims and for the heroic first responders who died that day just doing their duty.

Re: Never Forget

I was 14-years old when it happened, still living in Germany. I distinctly remember that day. I came home from school, turned on the TV, and noticed all the channels reporting on the attack. It was insane to watch. My mom came home early from work, and she and my grandma speculated that a world war might break out (typical German mentality). So they went on a shopping spree and bought a bunch of food for storage. The next day in school, one of my classmates started crying, because her brother was in the military, and she thought that he would die in the war that is about to come. Most people thought war was about to happen and that the world was going to change fundamentally. After all, East Germans had experienced 4 different countries within less than a century (Weimar Republic, Third Reich, German Democratic Republic, Federal Republic of Germany).

It is crazy to think that today's college freshmen have no personal experience of that day. They only know it through second-hand accounts. They only know this world, not the one that was before.

Re: Never Forget

Originally Posted by Diamat

I was 14-years old when it happened, still living in Germany. I distinctly remember that day. I came home from school, turned on the TV, and noticed all the channels reporting on the attack. It was insane to watch. My mom came home early from work, and she and my grandma speculated that a world war might break out (typical German mentality). So they went on a shopping spree and bought a bunch of food for storage. The next day in school, one of my classmates started crying, because her brother was in the military, and she thought that he would die in the war that is about to come. Most people thought war was about to happen and that the world was going to change fundamentally. After all, East Germans had experienced 4 different countries within less than a century (Weimar Republic, Third Reich, German Democratic Republic, Federal Republic of Germany).

In many ways, the world has been at war since then; at least, it always felt that way to me as an American. Every day another terrorist attack somewhere, another soldier(s) dead, US adversaries taking advantage to advance their own interests amidst the chaos....enemies everywhere.....Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia... The government has worked very effectively to insulate public opinion from the realities of the war, but I believe the worst is yet to come, even all this time later.

It is crazy to think that today's college freshmen have no personal experience of that day. They only know it through second-hand accounts. They only know this world, not the one that was before.

It really is. I was too young to truly remember what was before, but even at the time, I knew enough to know the world was changing forever that day.

Re: Never Forget

I remember well what I was doing, I think almost everybody does; it wasn't so scaring to me though, I'm old enough to remember the start of the first Gulf War, which was a shock for our generation (a lot of people was afraid that it could escalate quickly) and the War of Balkans (which was very close to us), so even if it was a big trauma, I never really felt that it could cause a global war...

and IMO, the world is always at war.. war is necessary to humankind as food and oxygen.. it's just that we are good at not noticing what disturbs our morals.. really it's just that

Re: Never Forget

Originally Posted by Flinn

I remember well what I was doing, I think almost everybody does; it wasn't so scaring to me though, I'm old enough to remember the start of the first Gulf War, which was a shock for our generation (a lot of people was afraid that it could escalate quickly) and the War of Balkans (which was very close to us), so even if it was a big trauma, I never really felt that it could cause a global war...

I suppose every generation has their war/international scare. If only humans were as good at peace as we are at war.....

and IMO, the world is always at war.. war is necessary to humankind as food and oxygen.. it's just that we are good at not noticing what disturbs our morals.. really it's just that

“We like to think that moral progress has made us nice people. We’ve heard that our distant ancestors were mean and cruel and ruthless, and we can’t imagine that we would be such people – but we’re nice mainly because we’re rich and comfortable. And when we’re no longer rich and comfortable, we won’t be as nice.” - Robin Hanson

Re: Never Forget

Imagine if we didn't have nuclear weapons. Then superpowers would go to war against each other. The devastation would set us back decades. In an ironic twist, nuclear weapons have actually created stability in world that could easily destroy itself.

Re: Never Forget

Originally Posted by Legio_Italica

“We like to think that moral progress has made us nice people. We’ve heard that our distant ancestors were mean and cruel and ruthless, and we can’t imagine that we would be such people – but we’re nice mainly because we’re rich and comfortable. And when we’re no longer rich and comfortable, we won’t be as nice.” - Robin Hanson

True

Originally Posted by Diamat

Imagine if we didn't have nuclear weapons. Then superpowers would go to war against each other. The devastation would set us back decades. In an ironic twist, nuclear weapons have actually created stability in world that could easily destroy itself.

Re: Never Forget

Originally Posted by Diamat

Imagine if we didn't have nuclear weapons. Then superpowers would go to war against each other. The devastation would set us back decades. In an ironic twist, nuclear weapons have actually created stability in world that could easily destroy itself.

Don't kid yourself. That's just temporary, and aside from the fact that we're simply lucky, for deterrence to work, both sides need that capability. The US+UK actually wanted to attack the Soviet Union next and already made some bomber testflights all the way to Minsk. Soviet troop strength and later the Soviet own nuclear program actually turned it into a deadlock. It repeatedly relied on Soviet common sense to deescalate while employing the mad man doctrine themselves. The use of nukes was threatened against a large number of different countries. Korea, China, Cuba, Iran etc. would all have been the recipients of nukes if certain hardliners had gotten their way.
To this day the US sees nuclear weapons as a legitimate way to win wars. Civilian casualties be damned. MAD principle is being undermined by the ABM sites in Eastern Europe, as a reaction to that we have more and more countries with ever faster missiles, which reduces reaction time and thereby increases the likelihood for errors. And that's just the US so far. Though to be fair, they're so far the only ones to have used them, and the most likely ones to use them again. But apart from the US I can point you to the fact that the number of countries with nuclear capabilities is constantly increasing. Turkey has expressed interest, Saudis are a de facto nuclear super power by proxy (they can obtain nukes from Pakistanis at will, as they have funded their nuclear programme), and any war against Iran is almost guaranteed to see at least some nukes used against that country. North Koreans would be idiots if they gave them away, given what happened to Iraq and Libya after they gave up their WMD's.

It's not a question of if, only of when a nuclear war happens. Or to quote fight club:

“On a long enough time line, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.”

Originally Posted by Vince Gilligan

I can't think of a movie where I like it that the bad guy gets dumb, because it's like I want the bad guy to be smart smart smart, so the good guy has to be even smarter!