Hey i jus registered this site to post on this thread,

Hey i jus registered this site to post on this thread,
i hav joined paul caves proir 2 readin all this crap iv learnt, i'v basically been 2 almost all mma places in capetown, combat jiu-jitsu, dragon power, gracie jui jitsu, the 1 in parklands and spoke 2 the guy who runs 1 in Capetown, the guy who works @ that hi5 in kloof street, the Rico hattingh academy, groundworx (spoke 2 sum1 who goes der) panther thai boxing and even takedown mma in diep river even tho i stay in da northern suburbs (this was all bout 2/3 months ago) did all da intro classes and they pretti much do all the same ****, gracie jui jitsu is awesome if u just wan2 do jui jitsu, u hav 2 b quite senior 2 do the full on mma, dragon power is sick if u wan2 do muay thai on da stand up n jui jitsu on da ground wit some sick greco inbtwn, panther thai boxing is sick if u wan2 get 2 punch sum1 in da head asap, but dey got sum sick thai skills aswell sum not 2 shabby bjj.... what im gettin @ is dat all da dojos hav der pro's n cons.....

reason i went wit paul cave in da end is becos i wanted 2do striking..., paul teaches kickboxing 4rm far n muay thai wen it gets close(elbows knees etc). i spoke 2 pc, n he sed u kno if guys wan2 do mor jj they should go da gracie route, wat they do at pc's mma is strip away everythin 2da absolute bear essentials, so der no wastin time, as far as da **** bout bein so aggresive n dat guy psychin himself up 2 fight i dnt see how that is possible when we onli do light ight contact sparrin??? the fitness is super hectic but if u hit sum1 properly on purpose, ur gona be doin fitness da whole session as punishment...i also chose pc cos it close 2my house, if i had da choice i wouldv prob chose takedown mma, they got an awesome place der, but im realy diggin pc's, n if u lookin 4 a sick place 2 do all the thing he offers, mainly kickboxin n muay thai, jui jitsu n khali, n a bit of knife fightin den it awesome

i hav joined paul caves proir 2 readin all this crap iv learnt, i'v basically been 2 almost all mma places in capetown, combat jiu-jitsu, dragon power, gracie jui jitsu, the 1 in parklands and spoke 2 the guy who runs 1 in Capetown, the guy who works @ that hi5 in kloof street, the Rico hattingh academy, groundworx (spoke 2 sum1 who goes der) panther thai boxing and even takedown mma in diep river even tho i stay in da northern suburbs (this was all bout 2/3 months ago) did all da intro classes and they pretti much do all the same ****, gracie jui jitsu is awesome if u just wan2 do jui jitsu, u hav 2 b quite senior 2 do the full on mma, dragon power is sick if u wan2 do muay thai on da stand up n jui jitsu on da ground wit some sick greco inbtwn, panther thai boxing is sick if u wan2 get 2 punch sum1 in da head asap, but dey got sum sick thai skills aswell sum not 2 shabby bjj.... what im gettin @ is dat all da dojos hav der pro's n cons.....

Not

Hey, read your post. You drop some heavy names in there and I think some of those guys will be highly offended being mentioned in the same breath or post as Cave. The fact remains. PC is claiming to be trained in and duly qualified as Shihan in the skills you mention. Which he is NOT.

Therefore, neither is any of the guys he taught or is teaching. He is not able to produce such certification, which simply means he does not have it. Any other excuse is BS. Cave operates a money making operation.

As far as I have heard the only qualification he has is a single black belt in Goju-Ryu that his father awarded him. Kudos for making a good moneymaking operation out of just that, but at least you and the rest of the students there should know that that is all it is.

Would you go for driving lessons with a guy who does not have a driver's licence? And who then goes and says "I am a founder member of an organisation who says I can drive."

He is therefore qualifying himself. And that is no qualification.
You yourself say that ISKA recognises PC's student's belts. Of course they do. Paul Cave is the main guy at ISKA. The problem is nobody else recognises ISKA, because ISKA is not taken seriously. The fundamental problem is that nobody would recognise PC, so he co-founded and organisation that would. Nice trick.

From their own website :

"
The NMA is currently represented throughout South Africa with over 76 affiliated & sub affiliated Dojo’s. Anyone can join! Be it an individual, small club or Organization, we accept you! We don’t interfere with your own style and put no demands on you other than supporting the NMA at the National Tournaments.
"

So you be a janitor with poor eyesight and two left feet, and you can still can call yourself a 10th Dan in Judo, open a dojo, charge students money to learn from you, no less, and these guys will recognise you.

Another quote from their site:

"Gradings are done through world recognized Affiliation, and the emphasis here is on the word “RECOGNIZED”."

Note. Not QUALIFIED.

Do you ever see PC's students competing at Cape Storm in the MMA comps etc? NO. Why? Because they fight in their own internal ISKA tournaments against fighters that are taught by the same unqualified instructors.

You will never see ISKA guys coming up through the internationally recognised contests like the UFC, Pride etc. Why? Well trained fighters with well trained teachers will hand fighters with unqualified teachers their asses every time. Makes sense, if you think about it.

And that is what is likely going to happen to you, if you keep going to PC's place and ever try and compete against another fighter who has been trained
by someone like Rico or Omar and Mike. (at www.pridefightingacademy.co.za)

Please. You think you are getting good training and then one day you are gonna try to (or need to) depend on those "skills" and you are likely going to get your ass handed to you. Not because you suck, but because your teachers do.

It all comes down to pride, in the end. Do you forever want guys to smirk at you when you tell them where you train? Because that is never going to change.

Kewl bro well while ur doin sum clarification, take a look @ cung le's wiki page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cung_Le, he competes in strikeforce and he's won various iska events...
and if u go 2 da international iska website an check under events http://www.iska.com/, der sum pretti big names that they throw around...

i kno of guys that attend paul caves and hav put together a team for cape of storms...
and i know u think that this guy has no1 2 answer 2, but each year he selects the national team, 2 compete in the iska international tournament in da states, where he answers 2 a board with regard 2 syllabus n wat he teaches the students.... haha n finally y u gotta be hatin

To clarify - no-one's "hatin", they were just questioning why someone would advertise instruction in brazilian jiu jitsu (and have a photo of themselves in a BJJ gi and a black belt) when they have no qualifications in BJJ. It's that simple.

Some guys have spent 10+ years earning a brown belt in BJJ, and spent many thousands of pounds/dollars travelling the world in order to do so. For someone else to then give the false impression that they're a BJJ black belt is wrong if they have never graded in it.

Everyone should ask their instructor who gave them the belt, and the instructor should be honest & open if he's got nothing to hide.

Another point..

The other very serious point here is that they teach "street defence." That is fine in and of itself. But with the prolification of really serious violent crime, are you REALLY sure that what you are being taught will REALLY work when you come up against a determined attacker? Or will it only work against a fellow ISKA / NMA fighter?

What should really happen is a "ISKA vs the Critics" fight night. Challenge 5 of the best schools in CT to each send their best student. Let Cave select his best 5 fighters. Match them up randomly. Throw down. MMA rules. That is the only way that you guys from that school will know whether you are being taught stuff that ACTUALLY works or stuff that will only work at NMA/ISKA contests.

Yes Cung Le has won several ISKA contests. Not contests against random other fighters from random other organisations. It's easier to beat someone when you know what to expect.

I'm not hating. But you and other students who perhaps know no better are being charged money for someone to give you teacher-level knowledge that he does not possess to give. When they get mugged or beaten up is the NMA going to pay their hospital bills? On his website Cave advertises:

While he is qualified to teach none of those. Do you get the point? Every time he has been asked by recognised and qualified teachers of those skills to produce such certification, or challenged on here to produce such certification, or asked by email for such certification by prospective students who want to know what they will be paying for, he has been unable to. Or they have been very rudely shot down by his employees. As you can read elsewhere on this forum.

Now if you get a Black Belt (1st Dan) in let's say Aikido, and you were trained in the Aikikai tradition, Hombu Dojo in Japan will give you a certificate that you are required, as a teacher, to display WHENEVER asked for it. Especially, you need to have it handy where you teach.

If you had such a qualification, would you not proudly display it?

Now, understand. I am not talking about ISKA certification, because that's like printing your own certificate. I am saying that any teacher who claims to be proficient and a qualified teacher in whatever style, be willing and able to show proof that he is certified by EACH qualifying authority of EACH style he claims to be a qualified teacher for. It's not rocket science. It is however, the way things are done in the Martial arts world. And it makes simple sense. Is it too much for a student to ask for?

You would expect it of your kid's schoolteacher, wouldn't you?

It is simply not right to tell people you are a trained teacher, and charge money for teaching, when you are not. If he is duly qualified as a teacher in the above styles, let him proudly display that certification.

If he cannot produce those certifications, let them take those off the website and flyers, and say "We teach sports karate." Full stop.

If he and his instructors are not willing to, you and you fellow students, if you have any sense, should ask: "Why not?" and expect a non-bullshit answer.

jucedupp
Jucedupp
I have been reading your comments now for a while. I would like to know one thing though. Do you do any form of martial arts and if so what rank are you?

I have been by PC for about 10 years. Competed internationally for 4 years at WAKO in London and ISKA in Orlando. I currently rank Black Belt.

I have some insight to Shihan's qualifications and I can assure you that he is more than qualified to teach. He has a background of Gojo Ryu which he ranks at 7th Dan along with Kick Boxing. He has been in training since he was a toddler and has never stopped training even till today. He very dynamic and is always trying to give us the most up to date techniques in the styles that he offers.

As a person he is difficult to approach, but then, so are many other people in the world. I have been around to other dojo's and I have not found one that offers what he deos at such a low price.

As far a ur comment about "recognised", if you read correctly in the post Kev mentions affiliation. Affiliations can't be qualified - is an organisation. Iska - is American Based and Wako - is European Base. When we fight in competins we can compete againts any style as our comps are open style.

I have used what PC has taught me on the street and in my own home as self defense. I can garenty you that it is very effective. I am not saying that his style is the best but neither are any other styles. Meaning that each style has its pro's and cons. If you have true knowledge of martial arts you should know this.

Hey man I go to groundworx.The schools really taking off. We get taught basic BJJ and then incorparate the 10th planet stuff while keeping and honing the basics. We are offically affiliated with 10th planet.One of Eddies coaches came from the USA to do a seminar and check our school out and such.Our coach/teacher has a Blackbelt in Traditional BJJ and is grading for his Brown under Eddie currently. We do some MMA and quite a few of our members compete in ameture(SP?) MMA fights (although the MMA scene isn't booming over here.).You should check it out, I just trained for 2 hours there tonight.Oh yeah the location changed since you looked for it probably.

By the way.SPEAK FUCKING ENGLISH JEESUS.

Mods do I have permission to post the link of my school?(Dunno if it would be considerd spam or illegal advertising/off-topic post)

Hey I just registered this site to post on this thread,
i have joined Paul caves proir to read all this crap I've learned, I learned, for almost any place in Cape Town MMA, fighting jiu-jitsu, dragon power, jui jitsu Gracie, one in parks and talked to the man who runs one in Cape Town, the man who works at that hifive in Kloof Street, Rico Hattingh Academy groundworx (spoke someone1 who goes there) panther Thai boxing and even takedown mma in deep, even though I stay in the northern suburbs ( This was all bout 2 / 3 months ago) did all the intro classes and virtually all of them the same ****, jui jitsu Gracie is great if you just want jui jitsu do you hav to be very high to do the full on mma, dragon power is sick if you want to do muay thai and jui jitsu getting up on da floor with some sick inbtween Greco, panther Thai boxing is sick if you want to get someone to punch in the head as soon as possible, but they got some sick skills Thai and the sum is not too shabby BJJ .... what im getting at theat all dojos are pros and cons .....

So I went with Paul Cave at the end, because I wanted ... striking, Paul teaches kickboxing form much to do and Muay Thai when it gets close (elbows knees, etc.). I spoke with PC, and he sed you know if you want JJ to do, they must Gracie route to go, what they mma PCs rid everythin tp absolute bear essence, there is not wastin time, where the **** on this guy is so aggressive and psyching himself up to fight i didn't see how this is possible if we just light contact sparring? The condition is super hectic, but if you hit someone right on target, you will be doing fitness throughout the session as punishment ... I also chose pc because it is close to my house if I had the choice I would probably chose Takedown MMA, they are a great place got there, but im really digging PCs, n if you lookin for a sick place for all he has mainly kickboxing and Muay Thai do, Jui jitsuand Kali, after fighting with a little knife, then it's great

ps all belts interntionally recognized by Iska so if you go overseas, with watever belt do you have recognized .... Iska and K1 and Strikeforce are all closely linked

Last edited by Matt Phillips; 5/04/2010 7:25pm at .

Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie