It is not having Roy and Plante #1 and #2 that I argue against. But it shows what the poster wants to see. And we also know wich team he prefers. And in my eyes his argumentation against Hasek is biased, weak and fallacious. And by voting against Hasek in an extreme measure (compared to everybody else) I question the reasoning.

Would you react if an Edmonton fan voted Gretzky 1st and Orr 7th stating weak arguments as durability, non vocal leadership or a single really bad game? I think you could question this even though Gretzky as #1 is normal.

Ya, pluppe, honestly & most respectfully, your so far off base in suggesting this (or really any other voting member from what Ive seen & can determine) Member's partisanship (Habs fan) tainted his votes in going with Roy & Plante, both seminal goaltenders who's skills & contributions rank them 1-5 in almost any list Ive ever seen from multiple sources that it really borders on Flaming IMHO. Its direct assault on an individuals intellectual capacities, honesty & objectivity. Totally uncalled for, and obviously youve' got a burr on your shirt tail that transcends just this little exercise in suggesting such.

Quebec has been the cauldron that has produced some of the very best goaltenders to have ever played the game. As a former goaltender who did play at a very high level through both my own eyewitness observations & determinations, anecdotal educative experiences through coaching & training as a kid that I was lucky enough to have received from some of the goalies on this list, others who did play in the NHL & minors, in-game experience combined with a deep interest & passion for the position, its evolution it just so happens that Vezina, Durnan, Plante & Roy, the latter two in particular do indeed rank 1 & 2 or 1A & 1B. Personally, I rank Sawchuk as the #1 of All Time, followed by Plante, then Roy, Brodeur etc. Thats 3 of the top 5 hailing from the PQ.

Many lists, observers, do indeed rank Hasek as Best Ever, however, a great many others as well do not. Obviously, Im in this latter camp, as quite frankly I did not appreciate the manner in which he played the game. Thats not to say I didnt or dont respect him, what he achieved, I simply didnt have time for the technical aspects of his game, saw innumerable flaws, never sharing the confidence & complete admiration in him that a great many did & do for his game. Its only on the absence of his technical proficiencies that he falls behind Brodeur on my list, ranking him in the 4th position, I do so reservedly and only elevate him to that level due to his record, the hard numbers.

Finally, Edmontonians are a hockey savvy lot. I dont believe for one second that any objective hockey fan & observer would deliberately & maliciously, strategically or otherwise drop an Orr or whomever into obscurity in order to make a case for lets say Gretzky, Coffey or Kurri, placing them ahead of whomever in a purely partisan & completely biased act of subjective self indulgence. The crest on the front of the sweater is meaningless, its the name & number on the back thats important..

and hey, Im a life long Leafs fan. Was around when that meant winning, something to be proud of. You think I dont envy the wealth of riches the Habs organization has enjoyed in the crease and at virtually every other position over the past century? Canadiens' fans on the whole are extremely knowledgeable & astute observers of the game, deserving of much respect. I cant fathom any one of them ever acting subversively in hijacking an exercise of this nature in order to even further elevate their already premier position as the classiest organization in the league. Their not built that way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by quoipourquoi

But I don't like the words "biased, weak and fallacious" being tossed at a voting member by other non-voters who haven't put their credibility on the line with their own list.

Nor do I, and no place for it here on the HOH Board. I didnt participate obviously, but I will next time around... as for C58's initial "suggestion" that started this firestorm, that the Administrators or "Moderators" be non-voting non-particpatory Members, whats the problem with that? Take a vote. Ask for volunteers if its decided for purely clinical reasons and to avoid even a hint of bias or strategic voting, go for it. I dont believe for one second that 70's or TDMM, overpass or Taco influenced, framed, messed around & up in that regard in anyway whatsoever. Just not on. To be highly commended for their execution. Job well done.