I just got TOEE from my friend today, and your very right Roqua, that's the best adaption I've seen so far, I was really amazed at how they had all the damage options, like subdual, plus the others, it was great. I seem to be stuck inside the spider grove, I'm not seeing an exit, but I'm not used to the interface yet, and I should go patch it.

Originally Posted by Dhruin
Yes, this is what we mean. And you answer the issue yourself when you say "you can get many turn-based games where the turn is more to do with a fixed round". Just so - those games are round based, not turn-based.

Whilst games like NWN2 have rounds on individual timers, the actions are still resolved simultaneously in realtime (even though the various characters might be on a different heartbeat). This is completely different gameplay to real turn-based (IGOUGO) and many concessions are made with the D&D ruleset to accomodate NWN2's (et al) gameplay.

I can appreciate this may not be to an individual's taste but for those that prefer TB, it can't shoe-horned into realtime just by pausing the simultaneous action.

To use ToEE as an example, let's say my party suddenly encounters a Hill Giant and my weak gnome mage is within the giant's range. He will surely get squashed by the first attack. The combat stack shows the order (based on initiative) for combat, and I can see that three characters get to act before the giant but the mage was caught flat-footed and won't act until after. My first three characters need to kill or disable the giant, or somehow buff or protect the mage to survive.

Because of the strict turn order and the known number of action points, I can plot out a course of action with greater depth and precision using a wider variety of tactics (including Charging, Tripping, weapon reach considerations and so on) in a way that would just become a jumble in realtime. The turns and action points make initiative and dexterity more important (and reward their use) and ranged weapons are more tactical (the distance isn't simply closed in the first round before any shots are fired).

I find this sort of situation far more gripping than the realtime combat in NWN, BG etc and it just can't be simulated by pausing.

I understand what you're trying to say, and I can see the certainly see the benefits of this TB combat, too. Howver, when I play a game, I (now) only want to have fun and not think too much about things. (10 years go, I didn't want that and maybe 10 years ago I will find tactical, turnbased comvat fun again). The things is this: I do have a life besides gaming.

I work as a teacher and when I play games, I basically (now) do as means of relaxation from everyday life, as a sort of escape from the pressures of planning daily schedules or even monthly schedules. If I were to play turnbased game today, it would, too me, feel like 'homework' e.g I had to use my brain to play TB games. (and I do use my brain when I play the work my students are doing the next day). Therefor, I just want to be able to relax, when I play games, and not have to think (that much) as I would have when (or of) I played game which had TB combat.

I don't mind games having turnbased, tactical combat, but I just don't play them as much right now…

Don't take this as an attack (because it isn't) — but you should be happy, then. Since they don't make TB RPGs any more (some indies aside) and since most games are pretty easy and actionised, you have your pick of titles. Those of us that like TB games have little to pick from and get a little crabby when RT fans tell us a realtime-with-pause game is the same thing anyway.

Originally Posted by ThatGuy
I just got TOEE from my friend today, and your very right Roqua, that's the best adaption I've seen so far, I was really amazed at how they had all the damage options, like subdual, plus the others, it was great. I seem to be stuck inside the spider grove, I'm not seeing an exit, but I'm not used to the interface yet, and I should go patch it.

I remember being stuck in the spider grove but not exactly how I got out.(How helpful! you say )but I do remember that it isn't a bug, just difficult to find the exit point.
ToEE could have been a franchise that put BaldursGate to shame. I've yet to play a combat system I liked as well.

— Where there's smoke, there's mirrors.

Last edited by magerette; April 26th, 2007 at 23:26.
Reason: smilie error

Originally Posted by Dhruin
Don't take this as an attack (because it isn't) — but you should be happy, then. Since they don't make TB RPGs any more (some indies aside) and since most games are pretty easy and actionised, you have your pick of titles. Those of us that like TB games have little to pick from and get a little crabby when RT fans tell us a realtime-with-pause game is the same thing anyway.

I don't see it as an attack, just as expressing your opinion. I can understand why you see that games might be easy and actionised like I can understand that you would like to see more TB games. And why you're sad that there aren't made new TB games anymore. And I don't think I have ever told TB fans than realtime with pause is the same thing, but that could be because I have played the Fallout games. (anyway, I have used your comment about turnbased games as sort of info or enligtement at the Fallout forum On Bethesda's Game Forums site. I did this, because I thought you explained it so well ).

I didn't mean to suggest you were telling me TB = RTwP; I was referring to an earlier poster (and many others over the years). I appreciate they usually have the very best intentions but this myth that RTwP adequately simulates TB bugs me.

Originally Posted by roqua
I don't think there is an exit point, you just hit the map and do world travel if I remember right.

You also get arounf town quicker that way. You can go to the camp in the e of town, the inn, or the temple.

Hah… yep, I finally figured out to use the map button after about 45 minutes of searching everywhere, getting frustrated, trying to rest, and having both my fighter and cleric get incapacitated, I felt really dumb afterward.

I've been playing it nonstop for a couple days now, except when a friend brought his computer over to attempt to play POR2 heh, ( alot of fun bargaining with your friend for loot; "+2 greatsword!? I'll trade my +3 bastard sword of flame strike!" lol") and I got around to going in the temple finally, hit level 9 fairly quick going down a few of the temple floors.

The games been intensely fun, though it's far too short :/ I'm probably going to hold the standards too high for games to come now, can't even bring myself to play nwn2 at the moment.