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tying materials

I am relatively new to tying. I tied all my nymphs last year and had a blast catching fish on the Taylor, Gunnison, and other rivers around Crested Butte. I have read Lefty Crey, A.K., and John Barr's books and I am getting more confused as I try to learn how to tie dries. There are a few materials that Im not sure what they are, mostly different kinds of hackle. I am also struggling to find a fly shop (online) that carries all the things I need. Is that common? Could someone suggest the best tying book for dries that explains things well. And is there a store that people like to use for all their tying needs? Is there a way to buy hooks in a variety of sizes, instead of 25 per size. I need tmc 101 and tmc 2488H in sizes 16 to 22, it seems that someone would sell ten to fifteen of each size in a package.

Re: tying materials

Hi overefined,

Take a look at Tying Dry Flies by Randall Kaufmann. Let me clarify that I don't own the Dry Fly book but I do have the Nymph book. No reason not to think the Dry Fly book is just as good as the Nymph book.

These books cover everything you need to know to tie the flies listed in the book. It includes recipes so you know just what materials you need. Plus there are detailed pictures showing the step by step procedures to tie 31 different dry flies. It shows how to select and prepare hackle. The Nymph book has three pages covering just hooks that is very useful. I am sure hooks are also covered in the Dry Fly book. It definitely takes the confusion out off what hook to use.

This is a complete book that covers every aspect of tying dry flies. It will start with easy flies and progress into more complicated flies. It builds on what you have learned from fly to fly. How can you go wrong with a book that teaches you how to tie the wonderful Stimulator fly.

The book comes in a sewed hardbound and a spiral hardbound binding. The spiral hardbound is well worth the extra money. It will lay flat on your desk and the pages won't turn over. This is not an inexpensive fly tying book but the pictures are all excellent. The writing is easy to understand. If I wanted to really learn how to tie Dry Flies, this would be my pick. The same can be said about the Nymph book.

Re: tying materials

Overfined: Check out Charlies Fly Box, he has a great listing of fly tutorials on his site that are applicable for CO. His shop is in Denver and it has the most fly tying material of any shop around. He also has a wonderful fly tying book out titled Charlie Craven's Basic Fly Tying. Charlie is an expert fly tyer and has a knack for explaning how to tie flies. I'm in the same boat as you, I live in a small town and the local fly shop doesn't carry everything. I try to buy local when I can but when I see a pattern listed on Charlie's web site I write down a list of the materials I don't have and then use the web form on Charlie's web site to order the materials.Charlie's FlyBox - Metro Denver, Colorado's Best Fly Fishing Retailer (flyshop) with online Fly Tying Tutorials

As far as hackle goes, you'd want dry fly quality, genetic hackle. There are many choices out there, with Whiting being generally recognized as the best quality, but also pretty expensive. There are also many alternatives in addition to Whiting that might be worth considering, depending on what you're tying, and on your budget. In addition to choices in brand, dry fly hackle comes in "grades" and also in your choice of capes or saddles. In addition to all that of course, it comes in many different colors.

Here's sort of a breakdown in terms of how it works:

Difference between dry fly quality and other types of hackle:
When you bend the stem of a dry fly feather the barbs will stick out straight, as opposed to clumping together and curving on "wet fly" hackle like hen necks or woolly bugger feathers. The "size" of dry fly hackle refers to the length of the barbs, not the overall length of the feather. Most dry flies will use hackle that has barbs about 1.5x the length of the hook gap (between shank and point). The smaller the hook, generally the more expensive the hackle-- finding a neck or saddle that will tie flies into the 20's will generally be more expensive than finding necks or saddles that will tie sizes 18 and up.

Difference between capes and saddles- capes (also called necks) have feathers shorter in overall length than feathers from saddles. But capes will generally have a wider range of sizes, so that you can tie flies that range in size from 12 to 18 or 12-20 or smaller, depending on the "grade". Saddles are a bit easier to work with, and have thinner more flexible stems, but they typically are strongest in only two or three sizes. Whiting saddles for example tend to have most of their feathers in sizes 14 and 16, with a few 12's and 18's. Saddles from other brands generally are stronger in sizes 10-12 or 12-14 with some feathers on either side of their main size range. Another product worth mentioning is Whiting 100's. These are packs of Whiting saddle feathers that are sold in one color and one size. The pack will have 12 or so feathers, and will be enough to tie 100 flies in that one size and color, and will go for about 18 bucks a pop.

Difference between grades - Whiting grades their necks and saddles in Gold, Silver and Bronze. Other brands grade their necks 1, 2 and 3, and sometimes "Pro". The higher the grade the more expensive. Higher grades will tie more flies (more and longer feathers) and in the case of capes, will generally tie down into smaller sizes. Most capes in grade 3 or Pro grades will tie down to 18, Bronze whitings down to 20, and the highest grades of necks (and most expensive) tying down into sizes 26, 28 and smaller. Grades for saddles generally reflect the length of the feathers, rather than the sizes they will tie. A higher grade saddle, because of the length of the feathers, will tie more flies. It is not uncommon to be able to get 6 or 7 flies out of one Whiting silver saddle feather.

Color- there is a wide range of colors available both natural and dyed. For someone just starting out it might be a good idea to start out with brown and grizzly. The feathers can be used separately or mixed together like on an Adams. These two colors will let you tie a range of patterns like Adams, Elk Hair Caddis. After a bit, the next colors to add might be a medium dun medium gray color) and a cream or light ginger. These colors can be also mixed or used individually to cover a pretty wide range of patterns.

So what should you get?

If you're just starting out, and on a tight budget, remember that tying larger 12-16 is going to be easier and less expensive than tying smaller flies in 18 and 20.

For about 30 bucks each you might want to consider buying capes that will tie a size range of 12-18:
Herbert Miner "Pro" cape (these are now owned by Whiting and are sold under a green label). These can be found in many stores.
Conranch grade 3 cape. Denny Conrad and his daughter Liz are independent breeders with good quality feathers from 12-18 you can see their stuff at Conranch Fly Tying Hackle
or Collins grade 3 cape for sizes 12-18 which includes a free dry fly quality saddle that typically are strongest in sizes 12 and 14. Charlie Collins doesn't have a website but you can order directly from him by calling 607-734-1765

Both Denny and Charlie will be happy to answer your questions and make suggestions to make sure you get what you want for whatever you're tying, and the quality is very good and the price is great.

If you want to tie smaller stuff, some of the capes you get may have some size 20 feathers. But if you need more you can order a pack of size 20 or 22 Whiting 100's in grizzly. That will cover a lot of bases without spending a ton on a higher grade neck.

Another altenative is to consider tying some dry flies that don't use dry fly hackle. Sparkle duns and X Caddis use deer hair for flotation (sold as comparahair or coastal deer hair). By varying the size of the hook and dubbing color you can imitate virtually any caddis and mayfly hatch 10-18. In contrast to hackle, a 2" x 2" patch of coastal deer hair will set you back 3 bucks and is enough to tie 100 flies. For smaller flies size 20 -26 tie them with CDC feathers. CDC = Cul de Canard feathers, a pack will set you back 3 bucks or so and will tie about 2 dozen small flies. These are super inexpensive, easy to tie once you get the hang of it, and are VERY effective. There are vids out there if you want to google them to see how to tie them.

Re: tying materials

thank you guys so much for your time and wisdom. Its so good not to have to reinvent the wheel, ( that leaves more time for the river). I always know that if I have a question, there are guys on the forum that will help out.
thanks a lot

Re: tying materials

Ditto on Larry's recomendation of Charlies, was in there Saturday and bought the book and some hooks and other things I did not have. If you get to Denver on most saturday's this time of year he has different tier's showing there methods, answering questions and telling stories of where and how to fish some of their patterns.
Wyatt

Re: tying materials

Originally Posted by mcnerney

Overfined: Check out Charlies Fly Box, he has a great listing of fly tutorials on his site that are applicable for CO. His shop is in Denver and it has the most fly tying material of any shop around. He also has a wonderful fly tying book out titled Charlie Craven's Basic Fly Tying. Charlie is an expert fly tyer and has a knack for explaning how to tie flies. I'm in the same boat as you, I live in a small town and the local fly shop doesn't carry everything. I try to buy local when I can but when I see a pattern listed on Charlie's web site I write down a list of the materials I don't have and then use the web form on Charlie's web site to order the materials.Charlie's FlyBox - Metro Denver, Colorado's Best Fly Fishing Retailer (flyshop) with online Fly Tying Tutorials

Larry

For some reason I can't seem to get into any materials "catalog" on Charlie's Flybox. What am I missing?

I'm looking for hackle for very small midge-type flies, typical for what would be used in a tailwater like the San Juan - probably #22-28. Anyone know of any online shops that specialize in such small-sized hackle (probably akin to Whiting 100-packs)?

Fly 2 Fish: hackle for small san juan flies

On the Hook and Hackle site they have "#1 Metz capes that claim to work for dry fly hackle 4-24 for $66.25. I'm not sure if that is small enough, but it is the smallest I've found. If you are in the durango area, the Duranglers fly shop is a great shop with very helpful staff, who are usually tying in the shop on any given day, Im sure they could help you out.
good luck