I think that the real dynamic going on here is that J.R. wants to come off as 'one of the people'.. and when the people are behind austin, its 110%.. and when he was a heel, he was hated 110%.. nothing is ever toned down there..

So when J.R. tries to play that up for the crowd to make him 'more credible' he comes off as being willing 'to suck Austin's dick' which I honestly think is behaviour you'd get out of 80% of the fans in the stands when that shit happens as well, who do you think in that audience, given the chance, wouldn't have 'bailed Austin out' from the reaction it was pulling?

J.R. plays the face announcer role differently than say.. Gordon Solie did.. and thats part of his appeal to me.. he does go overboard at times.. but Pro Wrestling is all about being overboard, honestly.

Originally posted by MarchOfThePigsbut does JR really think Austin can take on all 3 men in the nWo with a steel chair and a case of beer? That's ridiculous and if anyone believes that, they are dumbasses.

Uh ,I think that is part of being a wrestling fan , you have to suspend disbelief .

As far as J.R. being back on Austin's bandwagon after the beat downs and the humiliation he received at the hands of Austin , can you blame him for wanting to stay on Austin's good side . That's kinda like being friends with the bully in school .

Originally posted by MarchOfThePigsbut does JR really think Austin can take on all 3 men in the nWo with a steel chair and a case of beer? That's ridiculous and if anyone believes that, they are dumbasses.

Uh ,I think that is part of being a wrestling fan , you have to suspend disbelief.

True enough, but there has to be some limit as to what is and isn't believable, or else you get another "Triple H falls 50 ft in a car and gets a girder droped on him and returns the next week" vibe going. Rock should be off TV until wrestlemania after the beating he took.

For me the problem isn't necessarily JR as he is now. It's that he was SO MUCH BETTER before. He's become a sad caricature, only a shade away from Heyman's impersonation of him and two steps from WCW's Oklahoma.

This is the same guy who was, indeed, the best in the business, bar none. But he's so far removed from that he may as well be a different person. I'm not going to just say that he doesn't care, or that he's getting senile, or whatever.. there could be a perfectly reasonable explanation for all of it. But if this were *any* other situation, if this were *any* other broadcasted entertainment medium, would you put up with a guy who doesn't bother to keep track of who's performing, and what they're doing? IT'S SCRIPTED. They may not have every second of every match mapped out in detail, but HE ALREADY KNOWS THE RESULT, *and* the circumstances of it! It's not like this is football, with twenty-plus people on the field to keep track of, so there's no reason he should be forgetting the name of one of the TWO people in front of him. It's not like they're watching the moves performed for the first time, for the most part. Okay, if, out of the blue, Regal pops out the Stretch Plum, I won't be surprised if they don't call it right off the bat. It's not something that you see all the time. But the guy's SIGNATURE MOVES?

It's called competance. For whatever reason, JR just doesn't have it any more. Take him off of the desk, let him concentrate on his *real* duties, because being head of talent relations AND announcing is obviously too much for the guy.

And I have to disagree with the people saying he's just doing his job and favoring the top faces when he blows Austin every week. He doesn't give Rocky or HHH anywhere NEAR that much action, and while you can make the case that HHH isn't on Austin's level quite yet, I think most people'd agree that Rock and Austin are fairly even. The *heel* announcers are supposed to be hypocritical. That's why they're HEELS.

Originally posted by BigDaddyLocoI am actually getting tired of the Jim Ross act. I found the 'sorry we aren't giving this match enough attention' comment very similar to a man named Tony during a certain invasion. Jim Ross has been borderline piss poor lately, and I don't know if he turns it down a notch when he's with the King or not. The thing that pisses me off more than anything is the fact that he won't take the time to learn the names of certain moves. I KNOW WHAT AN UNPRETTIER IS YOU KNOW WHAT AN UNPRETTIER IS, SO WHY CAN'T ROSS KNOW WHAT AN UNPRETTIER IS! Just simple shit like that.

J.R. also seems to take himself to seriously. I don't think an announcer putting over talent should be the man in charge of what talent does what. It's just bad for business and I find it annoying as hell. I know he is better than Cole, but Jesus the gap is sure as hell closing between the two.

I think Ross does know what all the moves (as well as wrestlers names) are, but when everything is a spur-of-the-moment, no time to think scenario, your tongue can get crossed. Wrestlers mess up sometimes in their promos, but it's not as noticeable or often because they don't literally spend the entire show talking like Ross does. I can cut him a break there. I don't like his superiority complex, however, or his refusal to welcome new ideas or wrestlers. He is just as prone to manipulation or politicing from wrestlers as anyone else, but I doubt he will acknowledge that.

As for Jerry Lawler, I don't think the dirty old man thing is a gimmick. I don't think they are jokes. I think those really are the things that go through his head. It's just who he is. I say the WWF should put Heyman on RAW and Lawler on Smackdown, and tell King that if he can get his act back together on Smackdown with Cole he might get considered for the color spot on RAW again with Ross.

Tenay, now there's a name I always seem to overlook. I really don't know if I want him as my number one play by play guy, but *heel* Tenay was pretty damn cool. Tenay is one of those guys that's proven to me that he isn't afraid to put over the talent that is IN the ring.

Now saddle him up next to J.R. on RAW and I guarantee you that J.R. will pick up his act a little.

I think Ross does know what all the moves (as well as wrestlers names) are, but when everything is a spur-of-the-moment, no time to think scenario, your tongue can get crossed. Wrestlers mess up sometimes in their promos, but it's not as noticeable or often because they don't literally spend the entire show talking like Ross does.

I'm not so forgiving here. J.R.'s job is to talk for 2 solid hours and if he can't handle that then maybe backstage is where he belongs now. Now a slip of the tounge here or there is forgivable, it happens. But to not know the names of big moves and to constantly confuse the Chris's on a regular basis is ridiculus.

For me the problem isn't necessarily JR as he is now. It's that he was SO MUCH BETTER before. He's become a sad caricature, only a shade away from Heyman's impersonation of him and two steps from WCW's Oklahoma.

At times it seems that way. I think part of his problem is he has become the gimmick of Good Ole J.R., everybodies buddy. This is very different than the man once known as Jim Ross. Now both these guys have always been pompus asses it's just that one tries to hide it behind a cowboy hat and bbq sauce.

I've got a lot of tapes featuring Ross early in his career. In some ways he was better than, but in some ways he wasn't. If you think he talks too much about a wrestler's football career now, you should have heard him then. He tended to overuse phrases--for example, whenever they showed earlier footage, he'd say, "Now let's go back in time to [whatever taped event was being shown.] He would say this EVERY TIME they went to videotape, without fail. He's still repetitive now, but nowhere near as much.

Some of the weaknesses with Ross are due to changes in the business and how it's presented. I've noticed less real play-by-play and emphasis on the match at hand [especially if it's not a main event] across the board for the last five years or so. Ross did his best work in promotions like Mid-South and the NWA, where wrestling was still the main focus.

I can accept Ross pushing Austin and not acting the same way about The Rock--I can see Ross marking out over people who maybe have a more redneck appeal, like Austin or Bradshaw rather than people like The Rock or HHH. Also, The Rock acts like a heel [he bullies announcers almost as badly as The Undertaker] and it's believable for me to see announcers acknowledge Rock's popularity as they would any face, without really embracing him.

And this probably won't go over really well, but I don't really expect the announcers to say the name of the finisher when it's not someone at the top of the card. I like Christian, but I really only expect Ross to mark out for a finisher if it's the last match of the night or if it's a match featuring a top star.

Now saddle him up next to J.R. on RAW and I guarantee you that J.R. will pick up his act a little.

i agree with this completely. i don't mind j.r., but having him work with an annoying jackass that has very little to add to the show brings the quality of the announcing down. every time lawler speaks, i get annoyed...i think it just makes me more critical of what ross is saying because i've had to listen to lawler's incoherent dribble. put in someone who is better than lawler, and j.r. and the quality of the announcing will go up.

Now saddle him up next to J.R. on RAW and I guarantee you that J.R. will pick up his act a little.

i agree with this completely. i don't mind j.r., but having him work with an annoying jackass that has very little to add to the show brings the quality of the announcing down. every time lawler speaks, i get annoyed...i think it just makes me more critical of what ross is saying because i've had to listen to lawler's incoherent dribble. put in someone who is better than lawler, and j.r. and the quality of the announcing will go up.

And this probably won't go over really well, but I don't really expect the announcers to say the name of the finisher when it's not someone at the top of the card. I like Christian, but I really only expect Ross to mark out for a finisher if it's the last match of the night or if it's a match featuring a top star.

I don't expect him to sell every finisher like it's the most dramatic moment of the evening. But I don't think it's too much to expect him to at least know what it is.

When he, for example, calls Christian's falling reverse DDT "The Unprettier", he's not only making himself look stupid for not calling it properly, but say some casual fan is watching, someone who doesn't know Christian that well. He now thinks that Christian's finisher is that falling DDT, and that it doesn't work. Christian looks bad, because today a wrestler NEEDS an effective finishing move.

It's not a huge thing, obviously. But it's there all the same. It gives the impression, to the regular viewer, that that wrestler (whether it be Christian, either one of the Canadian Chrises, the Hardyz, or anyone else) isn't important enough to remember. I don't think anyone would disagree that that is pretty much the exact opposite of what his job as announcer is.