Breaking the chains, winning the games, and saving Western Civilization.

Wednesday, May 29, 2013

Why you don't have a wife/girlfriend

1. You are too passive. Women respond to men who are aggressive, to men who are predators. Waiting for "the right moment" to ask a woman out is just another way to describe being afraid to pursue. Those who don't chase will seldom catch; stop basing your intersexual relations strategy on science fiction novels written by overweight gamma males.

2. You overrate yourself. If you are an overweight, balding man of average income, or a gangly, pimply student at a state university, neither supermodels nor 8+ women are going to be interested in you. They are elite and you are not. They have much better options than you and Game is not magic. Game will give you two points more range, not five. You don't have standards to be lowered, you have delusions to abandon. If you're an average man, you should pursue an average woman.

3. You are too eager or desperate. Relax. Not having had a wife or girlfriend hasn't killed you yet, so it's not going to kill you in the future. Women like men with options, so don't act as if you don't have any. You do. You always do.

4. You pursue inappropriate women. If you're always trying to save sluts or white knight for women with bad men, you're failing to recognize that those women are right where they want to be. That "poor little innocent me, I'm so unlucky" spiel is something that all of those women tell everyone they come across and it's not real. The fact that she gets cheated on by the thug with the tattooed face is no more surprising than the fact that she won't let you rescue her from him. She doesn't want to be rescued, she just wants an audience.

5. You're holding out for someone better. That's fine, but if you've been holding out for more than five years without finding anyone, you should probably consider the possibility that number two applies.

6. You can't decide. Look, women are like any other aspect of life. You make your choices and you take your chances. A giant green arrow is not going to one day appear from the sky, pointing at the head of a pretty, but shy girl, accompanied by trumpets and a voice declaiming "She, my good man, is The One!" Get advice from men and women you trust, pray about it, consider both head and heart, then roll the dice.

7. You're afraid things might go wrong. It's true, they might. On the other hand, living life by this logic would keep you out of showers and automobiles. Life can be reasonably characterized, if one is inclined towards the pessimistic perspective, as a series of disappointments interrupted occasionally by disasters. But that is true no matter who you are.

The presumption is that you want one, gentlemen. Obviously, there are a myriad of reasons why a man might not want a wife or girlfriend; such reasons are subjective and therefore require no elucidation.

Or you assume the worst in women. Which in America 90% of the time you'd be right.

Just in the last week alone a coworker told me his wife outright disrespects him and he was proud of it...I saw another wife slap her husband in the face...and I saw another argument between a couple where the words coming out of the chick's mouth made me blush.

Sounds about right for me. #2 is a large part of it, not that my standards are that high on an absolute scale, but that the supply of non-fat girls is so small. It's not unusual for me to go out and not see any girls in a bar that I would be able to get hard for.

You underrate yourself. You lack self-confidence, you think no one will want you, and when you do see something that could be construed as a signal of interest you talk yourself out of it.

In which case, you need to identify what's causing your self confidence issues (i.e. being fat) and fix it (i.e. going to the gym), you need to go and get some small victories in other areas of your life to build your confidence, and you need to learn game.

1. Is true because she's already qualified you within something like 180 seconds. When you meet a girl, you are "yes - no - maybe" to her by the time you have started to calendar out the weeks and months to figure out "the right timing." The cats who go to their timing calendars are also the ones most likely to move from "maybe" to "no" in short order, or even from "yes" down to "maybe" (teetering toward "no.")

"No," by the way, is permanent, or as good as permanent to treat it as such. Better to move to the next episode.

"1. Is true because she's already qualified you within something like 180 seconds. When you meet a girl, you are "yes - no - maybe" to her by the time you have started to calendar out the weeks and months to figure out "the right timing." "

You have no idea, Nate. None. And God bless you for it. The calendar ("Oh, I need to give her at least a few months to get to know me and prove I'm a good guy") is sadly all too real.

Fortunately, that was never my problem (I always thought it was disingenuous to try to prove something I wasn't. One of the fortunate side effects of having a grating personality and nature. I knew, inherently, that if a girl wanted good or nice, she wouldn't want me.) but boy oh boy, is it rampant in my general league of associates.

I'd say 40% of the guys I know had to learn the hard way about the calendar. Probably more than that.

Gay marriage hasn't been legalized in all the states yet. They are just waiting for their lesbian dream wedding.

Yes...the forty thousand sorority girls in the SEC...wearing heels, sundresses, and pearls...whose role models are women like Martha Stewart and who consider southern living to be the Bible...many of which are engaged by their senior year...are all lesbians...

It's worse than that. These guys (some) would calendar for women who were well in their range - average gals they would pedestalize, apparently to drive them away for no reason. It was just stupid. Nervous wrecks.

After calendaring one girl, they'd feel like failures and hypercalendar the next! It was like watching the Little Big Horn followed by the Charge of the Light Brigade. Minus courage.

I had issues with all 7 on the list for most of my youth. If only I could have read Vox and this blog a decade ago I wonder how differently life would have turned out. Vox's blogs solidify for me the importance of having a strong male role model and mentor to look up to; blue pill fathers just don't cut it.

I'm beginning to agree with this Nate fellow. There is so much bitching from men on these blogs about the lack of quality women, which is true, but the state of most men is rather pathetic as well. After all, who essentially allowed women to be feminists, slut it up, rape men in courts, get abortions, work in HR, etc. etc. The answer, sadly, is men (because they thought it was self serving at the time).

Most men get what they deserve; whether it is from ignorance or being lazy, I don't really care.

"I had issues with all 7 on the list for most of my youth. If only I could have read Vox and this blog a decade ago I wonder how differently life would have turned out. Vox's blogs solidify for me the importance of having a strong male role model and mentor to look up to; blue pill fathers just don't cut it."

See, I no longer buy this. Blue pill fathers and role models don't help, and probably hurt, I'll give you that, but teens and men who don't begin to adjust are either stupid, lazy or both IME. Yes, with a blue pill role model, or no role model the learning curve will be greater, but the end goal is still not unattainable. People choose to live in their ignorance when the right answers are basically slapping them in the face.

"The good news is... a masculine male that has actually accomplished something actually has a great shot at a great chick now days because he has so little competition."

Against other men...yes.

But you also have to find a way to beat social media, smartphones, celeb mags, and other brainwashing devices telling those great chicks they are God's gift to everyone. You have to spend part of the time popping that balloon sized ego she has.

I'm not saying it can't be done...but just because you are the cream of the crop male-wise you still have hurdles you have to clear.

But you also have to find a way to beat social media, smartphones, celeb mags, and other brainwashing devices telling those great chicks they are God's gift to everyone. You have to spend part of the time popping that balloon sized ego she has.

No popping needed. They'll flock around you. Women smell men 50 miles against the wind.

1. You are too passive. Women respond to men who are aggressive, to men who are predators. Waiting for "the right moment" to ask a woman out is just another way to describe being afraid to pursue. Those who don't chase will seldom catch; stop basing your intersexual relations strategy on science fiction novels written by overweight gamma males." - VD

If a man can't summon the courage to approach a woman, he'll never be able to attract her. It really is about courage and confidence. Who are you afraid of, God or woman? Seriously. Be bold!

#14. Lack of opportunity. There are places that are notorious for being dating deserts. I live in one of them (Naval Air Station Patuxent River, MD. It's not just me, the place is infamous as a terrible place to be a single man).

But you also have to find a way to beat social media, smartphones, celeb mags, and other brainwashing devices telling those great chicks they are God's gift to everyone. You have to spend part of the time popping that balloon sized ego she has.

earl, if a guy hasn't figured out how to be more interesting than a tweet, I doubt very much he would have been a worthwhile rival in the days of courtship. Omega we will will always have with us.

"But you also have to find a way to beat social media, smartphones, celeb mags, and other brainwashing devices telling those great chicks they are God's gift to everyone. You have to spend part of the time popping that balloon sized ego she has."

No you don't.

I'll give you an example. I lived in west virginia next to a wiccan chick who was the chair of the feminine studies department of WVU.

I was neighborly. I would talk to her... we saw each other often. She was extremely skittish around me because most of the time I was carrying a sidearm. I was at home. That's what I do. At first she tried to shame me about it... but she stopped when I laughed at her. after about 6 months she divorced the giant pussy she was married to... she lived by herself as a crazy cat lady... but came around more and more frequently. We talked about lots of stuff. I found myself helping her when she was struggling with fixing this or that... the way I would for any neighbor.

Then one day... I hear she's got a boyfriend. A redneck from Texas.

She quit her job, moved to texas, converted to christianity and now she's a stay-at-home mom.

Poor girl had never been around a masculine man before. When she finally was... it was like cat-nip to her soul.

if the chair of a women's studies program can be saved... who is beyond saving?

I cannot remember the author, but the best description of the SMP was this: Throughout history, in all ages, the men and women of that time deserved each other. It put the blame in perspective. Men are at fault for their failures, just as much as women are for theirs.

Game blogs used to be about men improving themselves and "Manning up". Now they're filled with the dregs of the hierarchy whining about how all women are sluts/lesbians/obese/etc.

You're confusing the blogs with some of the commenters. Those you call the whiners and the dregs are simply men who need to hear the message worse than anyone, and for all their protests and whining and complaints, that's why they're here.

They're not the problem. They will either improve or drop by the wayside. The real problem is the men who don't even know they have a problem and are blithely continuing in their miserable ignorance.

Then go do something interesting. Be an interesting person. Read books, slay dragons, find a cool hobby. It could be cars, motorcycles, guns, hunting, camping, sailing, farming, etc. video games do not count.

Those you call the whiners and the dregs are simply men who need to hear the message worse than anyone, and for all their protests and whining and complaints, that's why they're here.

Everyone learns at their own pace, I guess. It is frustrating to hear "I don't need to man up because all women suck". It's like they took the red pill, and took "don't put women on a pedestal" to mean "all women are bad!"

Not to mention that a good part of game involves self improvement, both mentally and physically. With SR being relative, it is not difficult to crack the higher quality women, especially when you look at the mooks and schlubs against whom you are competing.

Marky Mark just doesn't want the competition. He's like a woman telling her friend that guys like short hair, it's so cute! Especially if you have an attitude.

Everyone learns at their own pace, I guess. It is frustrating to hear "I don't need to man up because all women suck". It's like they took the red pill, and took "don't put women on a pedestal" to mean "all women are bad!"

They're just gamma whiners, more interested in commiserating in their misery than solving their problems. I think it's important to berate them. It would be unfortunate if a Beta with the potential to learn and be happy were to hear the Gamma bitching and conclude it was hopeless.

Anyway, I figure points 1 and 7 are probably the biggest issues for men raised in the last couple decades. Too much of society has become risk-averse, kids are discouraged from learning how to take chances.

Number 1 is the bane of my existence. That combined with what Steve said. I can pull the attention of women that, as one friend's fat girl friend put it are "shopping out of my market", then comes that moment when I need to do something, anything, just...swing...And I overthink it or don't even notice the opportunity until it's gone.

Churchianity didn't help much, either. Pray, be a good Christian and God will drop a woman in your lap and all that. I wad dumb/naive enough to believe it. Now, I'm having to fight my way back.

It's harder than it seems to folks like Nate & Josh who never had to deal with it.

Totally agree with all these. Unfortunately, I have met men who have had all of these traits. I am by nature a pleaser and love giving to my partner, but have learned to back off a bit and reserve that for the man who is deserving and not selfish. When a man is really into pleasing me, it makes me want to please him even more, and it's a win-win for everyone! shy phone sex

"Well something must be causing the obesity rates to be high in the south."

I don't know if regional obesity studies control for race, but a large number of the South's obese are of the African persuasion. Of there are some very obese "trailer park" whites as well. However, if you visit the ritzier areas of the South, you'll find loads of good-looking women, and obesity isn't nearly as prevalent.

BTW I don't think game raises a guy's SMV two points otherwise we would regularly see average guys dating 7s and 8s.

You still have supply and demand. 7-10 doesn't represent 40% of all women, it represents about 20% of them due to the fact that women hit a wall and in the US even women that could be 7s or 8s in their 20s and 30s decide they are going to be chubby or fat instead.

1 and 7 were my issues from age 14 to 19. I think it was early rejection that caused it. Plus no one telling me there were plenty of girls on the girl tree and failure was okay. I was fine with failing at sports but I had no idea how to recover from a girl's rejection at age 14. Teaching young boys that rejection is part of the game is important at those ages.

A useful term is Sexual Market Value (SMV). It's useful because it underscores the fact that all persons who want to find sex partners have to compete in a market. Something like the way everybody who wants to buy a car has to compete with other car-buyers. A market allocates scarcity by setting prices, such that items in greater demand command higher prices.

But in practice we easily observe there are some people---men and women---who seem to be unattractive to just about everyone. Which is to say, men and women may not agree exactly on who is most attractive, but they seem remarkably harmonious when it comes to who is least attractive.

This is why a market analogy is useful. A house could be undesirable to most buyers, but it would only take two buyers to bid up its price if they both wanted that particular house badly enough. In practice that would be unlikely, of course, because there are a lot of houses, and it would be rare for just two people to have some inordinate desire for one particular house. With houses, what matters are features and location. There are usually other nearby houses with similar features, and this prevents individual house prices from getting out of whack with the general market.

This is accurate for men but women's likes seem, in general, to revolve around two poles. They are interested in looks and resources. So...what factors determine what men remain alone forever?

There are roughly nine major factors that could lead a man to being unable to meet a compatible woman.

2) Height (Study after study has determined shorter men are less likely to marry, date, etc.)

3) Unattractiveness (Rarely studied outside of empirical observations, but I think we can all agree that an attractive man/boy will have an easier time meeting an acceptable partner. Age brings with it a certain type of unattractiveness and falls here, especially when wooing someone much younger. Old doesn’t mean ugly, but the resultant sexlessness is the same. For example, one’s beloved grandmother isn’t ‘ugly’ but she experiences the same results as an ugly person.

The Mental Factors:

4) Mental illness or retardation (Again, fairly obvious.)

5) Shyness (Gilmartin, for all his odd beliefs about astrology and so forth, was the first to really examine the small but definitely present group of "loveshy" men. Nobody to my knowledge had hitherto considered these cast offs because, I suspect, no one really cared because they are well-behaved surplus men. They were, and remain, essentially well-behaved surplus men.)

6) Misogyny/High Standards: Lumped together for no real reason other then they seemed to occur fairly often as a pair, the first represents any off-putting behavior against women that would drive them away, including that which is common in this forum AND/OR being unable to be attracted to the women in your "league"

The Social Factors

7) Geography (Fairly obvious: a man who lives in a lumber camp in northern MN, or in the outback, or the highlands, or West Texas, is just not going to run into many women. This was common in the wild west days.)

8) Income (Women like the well-heeled supporters. This is common knowledge.)

9) Socialization/Hobbies (This problem would include males who, while not being necessarily misogynistic or shy, spend their time working in an all male-environment and who have "male" hobbies: hiking, camping, wargaming, reading and reenacting military history, playing computer games.)

What I've seen is that omega permacels can cite multiple numbers above as being applicable, whereas a short man or a poor man without some of the other problems is much more likely to connect eventually.

For example: In my youth, I could never have connected with a suitable MOTOS because of: 1, 3, 6 (high standards), 8, and 9.

Nothing personal here, but do you know these guys? Maybe they're fearless alphas; maybe they have a bit of "internet tough guy syndrome." You never know until you meet someone in person.

As someone who has been with the same lady since my early 20s (and she was 19 when we starting going together), I can't relate to everyone crying about how hard it is to get a girl. I have to go back to maybe 9th or 10th grade, but then, I was a zit faced geek. 11th grade is where it changed for me. Acne cleared up, and suddenly a lot of girls were actually interested in me.

Is it that many of these guys never got past the awkward stages of puberty?

Every once in a while Nate says something so profound that you should write it down and remember it:

The difference is I learned to deal with fear when I was a boy.

For those of you struggling with meeting women who wonder why some guys have it and some don’t, this is the key. The guys being successful are GUYS. The female is attracted to the MALE. No matter what she says she wants what she wants is a MAN.

MEN learn (preferably in boyhood) all sorts of things that make us men. We get into fights, sometimes we win sometimes we lose. We learn to punch and take a punch. We take risks. We do dumb stuff that is only cool to other boys. We learned that we can climb a tree darn near to the top, even if we were scared. And when we were scared we learned to be ashamed of fear. Even if we couldn’t stop being scared we learned to do it anyway. Ask a chick out: I dare ya.

I honestly don't know whether I overrate myself. I am in a university now. I had very few girls that were interested in me, yet they were good looking. I don't know how to judge my looks, as I feel like for a guy to be found attractive it is subjective.

I honestly don't know whether I overrate myself. I am in a university now. I had very few girls that were interested in me, yet they were good looking. I don't know how to judge my looks, as I feel like for a guy to be found attractive it is subjective.

Join KaonicSoul and have him assess if you're a melonhead or cro-mag. Not that it will help you to determine your looks rating.

"It's harder than it seems to folks like Nate & Josh who never had to deal with it."

Nothing personal here, but do you know these guys? Maybe they're fearless alphas; maybe they have a bit of "internet tough guy syndrome." You never know until you meet someone in person.

I’ve been blogging with Nate now for almost as long as Vox has had his site. I don’t know him in RL but hope I can catch up with him sometime for a whiskey and a Warlord. I’m not 100% on this but I think him and Dr. Who have been together (dating and married) something like 20 years now. Nate met a great gal and committed to her and it has worked out well for him. You young guys need to learn form that. Pick out a good one and stick with her. Some of these game blogs are about getting lots of different pussy and why you suck if your not. Don’t believe it. You only have to be a great man for one women not the whole damn gaggle of them.

Poor girl had never been around a masculine man before. When she finally was... it was like cat-nip to her soul.

Read it. Now read it again.

The power of masculinity is shocking. Some women claim they hate it. Baloney. They are just angry that they cannot capture and contain it. Those of us lucky enough to find this understand that you don't capture it. You nurture it and help this wonderfully masculine man do his thing. And if you are lucky, he will choose you to stand by his side. Never, ever try to capture it. It's power lies in being free.

1. Pick a chick you like.2. Ask her out.3. Take her out.4. Decide if you like her.5. If you do repeat step #1 if not.6. Find a different chick and repeat step #1.Repeat the process until you find one that is worth risking marriage with.

If the first chick says no, find a different one.

What's the worst that can happen? She says no?

Actually, the worst that can happen involves everclear, sorority sisters, campus police, an unauthorized fire pit, and a golf cart.

These guys don't get it. Chicks love to be asked out. It gives them a little high when we do it. 75% of the time, they will say yes just because they were asked. If you see a chick at school or work or what not and you want to check her out closer ask her out. Don't make a big deal out of it, just ask. Don't invest a lot of cash, just do coffee or whatever at first. You are qualifying her, not the other way around.

Every time I drop by here, I leave wondering why this is so hard to understand. Girls are scared to death that they won't find "mr. Right". They have no idea how to do that other than dressing sluty. If you see a girl who isn’t playing the whore and doesn’t dress the part you’ve got a better than 50/50 chance that she’ll say yes to a date. If she doesn’t come across like a skank most of the players aren’t giving her any attention and she probably feels left out. She may even wonder what’s wrong with her and why she can’t get a guy. So just ask.

The worst answer you'll get is either an outright no which is pretty rare actually (but I do find honesty refreshing), she'll say has a boyfriend (which may or may not be true), or she'll come up with an excuse that she is busy. Are any of those answers going to tear up your soul?

The best excuse I heard the chick told me she had an orthodontist appointment at 7pm. That one made me laugh. Have fun with it.

Also, guy hobbies are very attractive to women provided that you're actually around enough girls long enough to mention them. A friend of mine came out (to the Southeast) from California. We did the whole 4-wheeler, bbq, guns, etc thing, my FIL even got driving some of his large machinery. She loved it. I've got a picture of her with the biggest grin on her face when my BIL was teaching her to shoot. Video gaming, I'll admit, is an outlier. I tend more towards team/co-op games like Team Fortress and Mario, but my husband has gotten me to play and enjoy them.

Fair enough. They don't suck once you take out the fatties, the feminists, the tatted up, the sluts, the drugged, and the ones up to their eyeballs in debt. I've encountered gals that at least display some morals...but I've found that to be a small number. Perhaps I should move to the south.

American Men for the most part suck too...mostly due to brainwashing in the media and schools as well as the corrupt laws.

Is her now in vertical decline looks worth putting up with her shit for the +30 years when she will be an old hag and you will have a much lower sex drive?

You seem to have entered a "just world" hallucination. The fact is, the bitch slut around till the absolute last minute and then rely on social shaming and "you ever want to have kids or not" threats to bully out the absolute best deal they can get at the end of a government divorce law gun.

And rest assured if the bitch didn't have her divorce law "threat point" marriage at the last minute wouldn't be funzy for her. You've seen passive aggressive betas right? Dial that up to 12 and the little bitch has to deal with that Every. Single. Day. Or she can just not have kids. Giggle giggle.

Oh wait, that's why we have the divorce theft gun.

Many men today don't have girlfriends or wives because they have an ounce of self respect.

I think you misunderstand what "overrate" means. It means the guy isn't really a 7.

No it does not. Just because dumb f'ers could sell their houses at dumb fk'ing prices during the real estate bubble to even dumber f'ers doesn't mean someone who thought prices were "to high" then was wrong.

You respond to an observation that one of the things that may be holding a guy back is that he may be overvaluing himself, and you ask about 32 vs 30 year old 7s.

That question make zero sense in relation to "2. You overrate yourself" unless the guy who thinks he's a 7 is not really a 7.

See, that's what "overrate" means.

If he really is a 7, and she's really a 7, then nobody is overrating themselves and it's just a question of timing. But then it would be totally unrelated to the bullet point you quoted. So you asked a perfectly valid question, but by referencing the "overrated" point, you gutted your own question.

Nate, you're right. I should have learned to beat fear way back then. What I did learn was how to be afraid. It was beaten into me physically & emotionally. I'm better than I was, but I have to fight my "be nice & don't get the shit kicked out of you" instinct almost every day. The "just do it" stuff rings a little hollow.

I grew up deathly afraid to approach girls for fear of rejection. It goes back as far as I can remember; I'm sure to at least first grade, when I first had a crush on a girl. I have no idea where it came from; I had a perfectly normal, fairly traditional childhood. All I can figure is that I was naturally very shy, and that manifested with girls as a strong fear of being rejected and looking silly.

It made no sense, of course. In hindsight, I can see how many girls were interested in me and trying to signal me to approach, and even the ones who weren't wouldn't have laughed at me. I got over it once I discovered game, at least enough that it doesn't slow me down much now; but I still have to remind myself of things like, "What's the worst that can happen?" I envy the guys who never had the same fear, for whatever reason. Getting that straight in childhood would have made a huge difference in my teens and 20s.

"I should have learned to beat fear way back then. What I did learn was how to be afraid. It was beaten into me physically & emotionally."

This hits the nail on the head. Ironically, my successes outnumbered my defeats, but my defeats were so traumatic for me that they skewed my perception.

It didn't help that I never really had a strong male mentor until midway through college. My dad never wanted to be bothered with any of my problems. And while my mom was always there with emotional and moral support, she couldn't offer me the perspective of someone who had been there, done that, and learned from the experience.

You respond to an observation that one of the things that may be holding a guy back is that he may be overvaluing himself, and you ask about 32 vs 30 year old 7s.

That question make zero sense in relation to "2. You overrate yourself" unless the guy who thinks he's a 7 is not really a 7.

See, that's what "overrate" means.

If he really is a 7, and she's really a 7, then nobody is overrating themselves and it's just a question of timing. But then it would be totally unrelated to the bullet point you quoted. So you asked a perfectly valid question, but by referencing the "overrated" point, you gutted your own question.

I keep forgetting that most Americans are incredibly stupid and unthinking fools.

Since something like 40% of bitch hold out to 30 for that 10, a man who is not in the top 10% by birth or exceptional ability is left the disappointing "choice" of not marrying or of marrying a "woman of his SMV value" a 7 marrying a 7 for example. The problem is the woman is in fact worth far, far, far less than him by any non-crazy person standard. And dating babies rabies girl isn't safe either. Obviously.

Of course, it is true that far to many men are displaying that ounce of pride which is why the current number of never married 40 year old women is pressing 20%.

"I grew up deathly afraid to approach girls for fear of rejection. It goes back as far as I can remember; I'm sure to at least first grade, when I first had a crush on a girl. I have no idea where it came from; I had a perfectly normal, fairly traditional childhood. All I can figure is that I was naturally very shy, and that manifested with girls as a strong fear of being rejected and looking silly."

Honestly I'm still that way, regardless of how many times I've went out.

To be clear, by beauty and fertility standards,a 7 woman at 30 is LESS THAN the value of a 6 at 24. And by no small amount. Since 5's in America tend to begin blowing up into blimps, the 7 lucks out on not being a 5. In a normal country, the 7 30 year old woman's value is more like a 5's 24 year old value. Maybe here even, considering the additional mental problems.

"I have to fight my "be nice & don't get the shit kicked out of you" instinct almost every day."

I think it probably amounts to the same thing in practical effect, but for me it was never "don't get the shit kicked out of you" but "don't make her uncomfortable, she is a woman, the fairer sex, be gentle" and it made me weak. I'm getting better. The other day I'm getting some work done on my car. The scheduling lady is giving me attitude. Usually I'm very accommodating and peacable. But I see what's happening. I harden my eyes and voice, and in two minutes she's turned into a little girl with big eyes and girlish voice. I started thinking, does manhood amount to realizing that women are basically children? When a man marries his first child is in actuality his wife and to some extent it's a daddy/daughter dynamic? And is Christian manhood basically that a man needs to be daddy to some extent to basically every woman in his life?

I keep forgetting that most Americans are incredibly stupid and unthinking fools.

And yet oddly enough, most of them can understand what you missed. Namely that a guy who isn't really good enough for a 24 year old non-carouseler 7 might mistakenly think he is, and that's why he's alone.

If he's not really a 7, but is actually say a 5, then if he wants the 24 year old, he's going to have to settle for the 24 year old 5.

If he wants a 7, maybe he can snag a few years with a 32 year old 7 on the fade.

That's good advice for women. And it's even better advice for men. See, being free is very important to being a man.

White knights suffer from this. They're bound by their desire to help women, to fix women. Of course, you can't. Nate didn't want to fix this academic. That's why he succeded to transfrom here by his simple presents and focus on being a man.

There's nothing wrong with loving women and wishing for them to get better and that they might see the truth, it's human nature, damn it, it's what Christ teached us. But you can't help them if you fixate on it. Don't make it your God. You have to ignore it and focus on being a man, your purpose.

I don't think the fear in approaching girls ever really goes away even if you are the most alpha guy on the planet. It does however get smaller. But I don't look at having fear as a bad thing...I look at is as a motivator. Another dragon to slay if you will.

And yet oddly enough, most of them can understand what you missed. Namely that a guy who isn't really good enough for a 24 year old non-carouseler 7 might mistakenly think he is, and that's why he's alone.

If he's not really a 7, but is actually say a 5, then if he wants the 24 year old, he's going to have to settle for the 24 year old 5.

If he wants a 7, maybe he can snag a few years with a 32 year old 7 on the fade.

See how that works, Whatever?

No, of course you don't.

Because you are wrong?

Because the 7 female at 22 can easily screw or even date an 9 if she doesn't care about commitment, and that is what many of them do?

Then as they HIT "the wall", they "settle" for a "7" man who is by any objective standard far better than them when they are 30?

Because I am not a retard and know that a 7 woman who at the height of her beauty and power sets out to marry a 7 man at 22 will almost certainly be able to marry that 7 man? Because blinded by her looks, his temporary lower value, and his relatively inexperience he will be wildly happy about the "good deal"(ie only what he justly deserves) that he is getting?

Of course, when the 7 woman offers those somewhat diminished looks and a huge pile of resentment at 30 for the very short while her looks will keep her at 7 before they drop to 6 then to 5 then to 4.........

for some reason the man who will stay a 7... or even gain a point.... for the next ten years isn't "happy" with the "fair" deal. And Jacky just doesn't get it. Who cares about the man?

Its not a collective statement son. Its a possible explanation for why one individual may not have a chick yet.

He could be hitting on 9s when he's a 4... and thinking game will make up the difference.

As for Fireproof... its no more reflective of reality than Plan 9 from Outer Space.

Most Americans are fools. Mean spirited, brutal, fools.

You got that from a churchian-influenced movie and took it as a life lesson?

You will get a much better life lesson from Nate's dragon-slaying post.

A man must be a knight for a 30 year old 6 is surely a Princess! HA HA HA HA HA.

Now, for the non-morons, if I'm supposed to be a dragon slayer, what standards of behavior or achievement do I hold a bitch to?

I started thinking, does manhood amount to realizing that women are basically children?

I don't know if that's absolutely true, but I do think that if men had that as their default attitude, it would eliminate about 95% of relationship problems. They may not be children exactly, but they're close enough that treating them like children works better than treating them like men with breasts.

However, you have to treat them like children who are nonetheless accountable for their actions. Otherwise you can fall into the trap of thinking they're incapable of being responsible for anything, which means everything bad that happens has to be a man's fault somehow. That just brings you back to white-knighting from a different angle.

It's pretty clear that whatever has a far better grasp of the SMP than Nate. Then again, Nate hasn't been in the SMP/MMP for the last 20 years, so what the hell does he know about it? And Fireproof is an accurate reflection of how husband and wife are percieved in this country, especially in the Churchian sphere.

Nate, stop trying to get men to give you the tingle. They aren't going to butthext you no matter how hard you try. Lololzlzlzlzlz

The SMP/MMP was very different 20 years ago. Practically night and day, in fact. I'd be willing bet that you wouldn't find many women in their late 20's still telling guys they want to focus on their career, like we do now.

"The SMP/MMP was very different 20 years ago. Practically night and day, in fact. I'd be willing bet that you wouldn't find many women in their late 20's still telling guys they want to focus on their career, like we do now."

God Millennials are such fucking useless little shits.

You think girl power carreer orientation was invented in 2000? You think you were the first generation to be lied to about college and girls?

You fucking idiots. This goes back to freaking 1973. 73! 20 years before you were born chicks were talking about their career when they were in their 20s.

Pull your heads out of your asses, stop feeling sorry for yourselves, and get the fuck on with life.

Because I am not a retard and know that a 7 woman who at the height of her beauty and power sets out to marry a 7 man at 22 will almost certainly be able to marry that 7 man? Because blinded by her looks, his temporary lower value, and his relatively inexperience he will be wildly happy about the "good deal"(ie only what he justly deserves) that he is getting?

Of course, when the 7 woman offers those somewhat diminished looks and a huge pile of resentment at 30 for the very short while her looks will keep her at 7 before they drop to 6 then to 5 then to 4.........

for some reason the man who will stay a 7... or even gain a point.... for the next ten years isn't "happy" with the "fair" deal. And Jacky just doesn't get it. Who cares about the man?

The 7 man at 22 does not have the same value as a 7 woman, if you are talking physical assortative mating. Why? Because he's 22, and 22 year old men have low SMP value, relative to when they are, say, 30, even if they are objectively physical 7s.

Again, the reason is that women don't pick simply on the basis of physical appearance. It's one factor among many. It's important, clearly, but other factors are also important (power, status, social dominance hierarchy and so on). So, your male 7 isn't really having the same market value as a female 7 of his same age at 22, because his other factors (power, status, hierarchical dominance) are not optimized yet -- so he's actually of lower value than she is.

Around 30 that shifts, and he has more value than she does, because his other factors are kicking in and if he also has a 7 in looks, and has spent the time in his 20s building his physique, social dominance, power, established himself financially and so on, he is now peaking in terms of his own value, whereas his "peer looks 7" is now declining in value. He can therefore choose a younger 7 who has higher value, or will retain her value for longer, based on his own improved value. Or if he wants he can choose a peer age 7, but most men who do that don't have the other attraction factors going very well, so they are stuck with fewer options (i.e., their own value isn't optimized).

The key point of number 2 is that a guy needs to realize what his own value really is, and act accordingly. That means realizing that at 22 your value is generally shit as a man because you've mostly accomplished nothing, are low on the power hierarchy, low in most cases on the social dominance hierarchy and so on -- all compared with peer looks men who are +7 years older than you are at that point. So even though he may be a peer looks 7 to a 22 year old female 7, his value is much lower than hers at that point, and him getting pissed about that, or flinging himself into endless rejections based on it, really just reflects a failure on his part to assess what his real value is at that point in his life. The proper approach is to realize he has relatively low value, and spend the time to work on increasing those other value factors so that later on he can compete effectively with other guys when he is around 30, in terms of pulling peer looks women who are 22+.

Meeting Melissa in 1993 versus 2013. Things were very different back then.

Except they weren't.

I graduated from college in 89. The carousel was in full swing. So were careers. So was putting off marriage to 28-33 and riding the carousel of cock in the meantime. Feminism and the current SMP didn't start circa 1999, it started back in the late 70s and early 80s, and solidified into what we now in the aftermath of the AIDS scare.

I'll concede that. But based on the numbers that folks like Dalrock have gathered, wouldn't you agree that it wasn't as pervasive as it is now?

My sense is that what has changed a bit is that things are more out in the open and brazen now than they were then. Back then there was the carousel in its nascent form, but it was less brazen. In the immediate post-AIDS era things were more hidden and subdued, but it was still on. The sex positive feminists hadn't won out yet -- they were still squabbling with people like MacKinnon and Dworkin about porn and so on. As the 90s wore on, it became increasingly clear that the sex pozzies won out, and the importance of the sex neggies was waning to insignificance, and things became more brazen. Women became more blatantly sexually agressive, and open about it. It's the brazen-ness that is new, but not really the behavior.

"I'll concede that. But based on the numbers that folks like Dalrock have gathered, wouldn't you agree that it wasn't as pervasive as it is now?"

I'm younger than he is... but when I was in highschool there was not a single chick that wasnt' talking about her career and college. They all went to college... and all they talked about was their career. The whole "friend with benefits" thing? The attention whoring you make such a big deal about? That was in full swing in 1994. Chicks making out with each other at parties just for the attention... all that shit.

None of it is new.

In the late 80s they did news stories about "rainbow parties" in middle school... where girls would all wear different colored lipstick and they'd all blow the boys so the boys would have all these colors on their dicks.

I've decided to turn my life around and follow your example. And I'm starting by sitting on the internet PWNing N00bs and Gammas on Internet forums, because that's what makes you an ALPHA. But I don't want to be butthext by men, so that's where you and I differ.

One if the reasons people think girls are bigger sluts today than in the past is social media. Kids didn't have the technology to sext naked pics to everyone in middle school in 1993. They weren't making sex tapes. If they could have, would they? Probably.

Now...today the biggest sluts are probably bigger sluts than the biggest sluts were back then...but doesn't mean that the average girl is sluttier.

"Nate said...... You think girl power carreer orientation was invented in 2000? You think you were the first generation to be lied to about college and girls?

You fucking idiots. This goes back to freaking 1973. 73! 20 years before you were born chicks were talking about their career when they were in their 20s.... May 30, 2013 at 7:11 AM "

I was born in 1965.

What Nate is describing here is one of the many reasons I didn't get married soon after high school, why it took almost a decade after graduation to find a wife.

Where I grew up it wasn't so much conversations being explicitly about the girl preferring college and career over getting married it was more about there being certain unstated expectations that precluded guys from even entertaining the thought that a girl would follow him as he went about building a life.

The girls I knew as I was getting out of high school didn't end up going to the same college I did. In fact they attended schools in other states. I consciously told myself not to ask any of those girls to follow me. If they ended up going somewhere I wasn't then tough luck.

I knew that my parents and grandparents followed the traditional pattern of wife following husband where ever his life took him but it was not that way for my generation. Everybody just stopped expecting girls to follow where the men led. And because of those expectations I didn't ask certain girls to stick around. And I lost them.

There were no conversations about this with my parents or anybody really. It was all unstated social convention by the time I was old enough to get married.

BetaJoe: "Ya know, I've struggled with this in the past and I'm glad to see that it isn't just me."

Nate/Josh/Jack/Toby: "Well that's because you're a fucking gamma piece of shit. Clearly you aren't a man. You deserve nothing but a used up whore because you're a piece of shit. Either that or you get nothing, so stop complaining. Herp Derp."

/thread

Truly the most rational of rational discussions that isn't remotely filled with ad hominem attacks and logical fallacies. Quite the vanguard of brilliance.

I knew that my parents and grandparents followed the traditional pattern of wife following husband where ever his life took him but it was not that way for my generation. Everybody just stopped expecting girls to follow where the men led. And because of those expectations I didn't ask certain girls to stick around. And I lost them.

There were no conversations about this with my parents or anybody really. It was all unstated social convention by the time I was old enough to get married.

Exactly. What changed was that everyone expected girls and young women to have their own independent careers the same as young men. Following the young men would compromise this, so it wasn't done.

I knew many couples in college who broke up within 3-4 months prior to graduation for this reason -- not willing to compromise on where to go next. Same happened in law school, to an even greater degree (even more ruthlessly careerist mindsets there, obviously).

My sense is that this switch flipped sometime in the late 70s and then consolidated in the 80s such that by the latter 80s and beginning of the 90s it was just a given, and has remained that way since.

Look around: most people today do treat children as if they aren't responsible for their actions. But it also depends on what age of child we're comparing women to. A four-year-old doesn't have the same culpability as a 16-year-old.

I'd liken a really mature, mentally healthy woman to a 16-year-old -- capable of making decisions and taking responsibility, but still flighty and silly at times and needing someone to set boundaries. A carousel veteran with a personality disorder, on the other hand, might be emotionally closer to the 4-year-old, and about as capable of acting responsibly.

"That's why I have more of a beef with manginas and white knighters playing kiss ass to women."

I don't see many Manginas (Huge Schwyzer) or White Knighters (Mark Driscoll) in this comment section.

I see guys who have had a rough time of things because they weren't born with a hyper-social predisposition and no one explained anything to them.And the response here is to slam those guys into lockers and push them down the stairs and give them swirlies because that will make them somehow figure these things out? You are a bunch of absolute fucking morons.

Read the thread. The whole thread is advice. All of it. The rejection doesn't start until it becomes obvious that you aren't looking for advice. You aren't looking for help. You're looking to cry on someone's shoulder.

We're here to help.

We're not here to listen to you bitch and complain about why its hard.

Take our help... or not. I don't give a shit and neither does anyone else. Just quit your fucking whining. No one wants to hear it.

"Cail Corishev said... I started thinking, does manhood amount to realizing that women are basically children?

I don't know if that's absolutely true, but I do think that if men had that as their default attitude, it would eliminate about 95% of relationship problems. They may not be children exactly, but they're close enough that treating them like children works better than treating them like men with breasts.... May 30, 2013 at 6:07 AM "

One of the biggest mistakes I made in my failed marriage and with earlier girlfriends was that I treated them like I would a guy. To explain, I assumed they should have a certain level of self control and they should assume responsibility for their actions. I assumed those things would and should be there. I expected them to act like self controlled adults. I held them to the same standards as I would any other man. There's one problem with that, they weren't men.

I didn't pedastalize them but I didn't exhibit much in the way of dominant behaviors either so as to attempt to curb bad behavior or set expectations for desirable behavior. I just let them do their own thing. You see, to exhibit dominant behavior to other guys is to invite conflict, whereas with women the designed response is eventual submission. I didn't know that then.

My wife is, based upon all standards of measure, out of my league. I am 5'8, fairly good looking, athletic and reasonably successful (I can support a stay at home wife who home schools). My wife is a gorgeous 6 ft blonde - who after three children still weighs 125, and runs 6-8 miles 3x/wk (my only hope of having tall children BTW).

My wife first came on to me when we were hanging out at Dave & Busters in Atlanta (we worked together - I was the rehab manager and she a speech therapist). We were acquainted, but not necessarily friends. She asked me for a ride home...and the rest worked itself out.

After we dated for a while she asked me if I was attracted to her before. I told her categorically no - mainly because I never even considered her an option - again, out of my league. So I pretty much ignored her and treated her like everybody else.

To this day she still won't admit that what originally attracted her to me was that I was a jerk to her (as I was to all women then), and didn't coddle and place her on a pedestal as virtually every other male in her life did.

After 13 years of marriage, three kids and a wonderful life I thank God that He gave me the ability to ignore this beautiful creature...if I had showered her with flowers and poems and love songs and told her that I would hold her hair back when she vomited, and opined that she was my soul mate and folded her laundry, and watched her dogs, and picked her up from the airport...I have no doubt that the courting process would not have even happened. (BTW I eventually did and still do all those things).

To this day she still won't admit that what originally attracted her to me was that I was a jerk to her (as I was to all women then), and didn't coddle and place her on a pedestal as virtually every other male in her life did.

I came of age in the SMP of the early 90s. It was different than this one in some ways, but similar to it in others.

A lot of girls in those days still married their HS sweethearts, though some waited until after they graduated college to do so. There were certainly "alpha chasers" and sluts in those days, but there didn't seem to be as many of them as they are now. Most women in those days at least paid lip service to the idea of saving themselves, finding a good husband, looking for the right guy to have a family with and all that stuff. Few, if any, openly advertised that they were just looking to have fun and that they weren't interested in anything more than flings and ONSs, like they do now.

OR... maybe they were just as slutty and feral in those days, and maybe I was blinded by my chivalrous white knight Southern Baptist upbringing to see the true nature of those girls - I dunno. That's certainly possible.

This was also the beginning of the rape hysteria and the demonizing of maleness and male sexuality. It was just starting around the time I left college; I shudder to think of what it must be like for the young guys today. Especially considering that the emasculation starts early in kindergarten in a lot of our public schools.

Is it harder for young guys today than it was then? For most of them, yeah it probably is harder. And my guess is that it's only going to get harder for most of them. There will fewer alphas -- pursued ever more aggressively and desperately by increasingly feral women -- more frustrated betas spending ridiculous amounts of money on women just to be rewarded with LJBFs and sidehugs, and even more hopeless omegas who just give up on the dating game altogether, settling for their porn and video games.

But for the guys who somehow survive the feminized school system with their balls still attached, getting girls will be ridiculously easy.

If someone had told me that at age 13 I would have avoided a lot of grief. I spent a long time out of misguided respect trying to hold them to their own retarded statements of equality. I'm going to start increasing my jerk behavior with acquaintances and strangers.

You mean Gammas are such fucking useless little shits. I don't know if it's just Internet Amplification, but there do seem to be a lot of Millennial Gammas. I'm pretty sure there's something diet related, either them or their mothers. Soy (e.g. plant estrogen) based formula maybe?

Whatever, the sad thing is there's a kernel of truth buried in the pile of willfully obtuse nonsense you wrote. But you're too stuck on your gammahatred of women to actually develop it into anything useful.

So I'll try to be helpful.

One problem is absolute vs relative SMP. In your example, the woman (let's call her Amy) who was an absolute 7 at 30 was almost certainly an 8 or 9 at 22. And the guy (let's call him Bert) who was a 7 at 32 was probably a 5 at 24. That's the nature of the SMP - women peak early and men peak late.

So, 22 year old Amy (SMV 9) was miles out of 24 year old Bert's (SMV 5) league. He'd have no chance with her. Not only that, but 22 year old Amy is even out of 32 year old Bert's (SMV 7) league. It's not until Amy starts to approach the Wall that she drops down into Bert's league. Bert's above average, but he's not elite.

If he thinks he should be able to get a 22 year old Amy, he's overvaluing himself. That's what #2 was all about.

Now, if you want to say 32 year old Amy she doesn't deserve a guy like Bert, fine, but the only sort of 9 that Bert's ever going to be able to get is one who's SMV is on the downslope.

Watched a show called “Legit” the other day. Pretty good episode centered around speaking to women. Basically – an alpha tries to give his roommates some advice on meeting women.

The alpha’s opening advice on meeting women, “Women don’t want you to be yourself – at times they say they do. You know women – they like to lie. Women have a vision of a man in their head they’ve had since they were little – one they got from watching princess movies. You try to change into this – and then they despise you because you don’t have any balls. Then you change back to yourself and they think you’re a bastard.”

Then he gives advice on meeting girls, “Be funny. Compliment her, but not too much, and then always end the compliment with an insult. Mention a flaw – a problem with her. Like – you have a beautiful face, but what’s with the green Hulk eyes? And then when you’re talking to her make sure you always leave a bit of ………….silence. They’ll think you’re mysterious, when in reality you just have nothing to say. But more importantly, know when to leave.”

More advice, “when you see a group of girls, always hit on the ugly one first. The good looking girl will be impressed that you are paying attention to her grotesque friend. She will then get jealous that you are not hitting on her.”

Then the Alpha asks the Beta for advice, “How do you talk to women?”Beta: I talked to her last night for 5 hours.Alpha: Can you teach me to talk to a girl like that?Beta: I don’t know, you ask them about their lives, what their hopes are, about life’s big questions.Alpha: They have lives and they hope for things. I never even knew.

The episode has a pretty cool ending. You can watch it HERE. It's episode 3 S:1 titled, "Love."