TBH if I thought the grid was getting cheaper electric might be an option, but IMO you are still tied into the large utilities and 'the system'. I much prefer a cheap diesel that will run off cheap and even recycled oil of any flavour.

Live, Love, Learn, Leave Legacy.....oh and have a Laugh while you're doing it!

Quinny wrote:TBH if I thought the grid was getting cheaper electric might be an option, but IMO you are still tied into the large utilities and 'the system'. I much prefer a cheap diesel that will run off cheap and even recycled oil of any flavour.

You're right to think about a second fuel option besides diesel but I'd rather get my energy from the sky above my home. Ideally I'd finish the system with a proper battery bank so I have the option to detach from the grid for any length of time. I already powered down my electric house use by 75% so my needs are very low. No nat. gas or oil enters the property or ever needed. Net-zero. Many forget that, if needed, the Volt can run exclusively on gas or electric and of course a combination of both.... redundancy.

pstarr wrote:How are you net-zero? Does your home generate enough PV in November-to-March to run the Volt? Or do you mean you fuel you Volt off-property? So do I. Few of us own personal gas stations.

(I use my solar at home for 6K miles or about 1,700 KWH per year to drive those miles and at work I use a courtesy charger for another 6K miles, the remaining 3,300 KWH runs the home for the year. Produce about 5MW total.)

Net-zero is where you produce 100% of your homes power needs over a year annualized, no importing of other non-renewable fuels, oil, nat gas etc... renewable credits get fed into the grid and used back in winter.

Carbon neutral is a higher, less known, level. That is where you produce 120% of your homes annualized needs, no importing of non-renewable fuels etc... That 20% surplus energy production, in theory, is supposed to offset the embodied energy that went into the construction of the home, I think after a certain number of years. Obviously it varies. I was at this level when powering down to make room for the plug-in Volt. Once the Volt was plugged in, I went back to Net-zero.

Off Grid level is a lot different. You can be off grid but burn nat gas or other fuels during seasonal needs etc... I'd love to build home off grid designed so not even wood is ever burned, never mind any generators.

So would we all, but we can't afford it. A solar array would buy enough gas to power a gas-guzzler to work and back for years at $5+ a gallon. If you want to look at the value proposition, you have to factor in all the expenses, the car, and the renewable energy source, compared to a pay-as-you-go econobox powered by expensive gas.

"If the oil price crosses above the Etp maximum oil price curve within the next month, I will leave the forum." --SumYunGai (9/21/2016)

GM just killed off the Chevy Volt. They plan to focus more on building more big cars and giant pickup trucks....

Not surprisingly, an utterly biased comment from Planty. Obama has no need for any car. He, like virtually all ex-Presidents, doesn't drive. The Secret Service drives them in custom armored vehicles. They have to because people make hate-filled comments that are sometimes acted upon.

As for GM, they made a point of advertising that they are going to focus on what sells now and especially on electric vehicles going forward, moving to self-driving cars.

Plantagentet skipped all that so it could just throw more barbs. Not very constructive or honest, that. Not sure how people live like that.

Now, que Planty who will find a way to warp all of this.

Blessed are the Meek, for they shall inherit nothing but their Souls. - Anonymous Ghung Person

GM just killed off the Chevy Volt. They plan to focus more on building more big cars and giant pickup trucks....

Not surprisingly, an utterly biased comment from Planty. Obama has no need for any car. He, like virtually all ex-Presidents, doesn't drive. The Secret Service drives them in custom armored vehicles. They have to because people make hate-filled comments that are sometimes acted upon.

As for GM, they made a point of advertising that they are going to focus on what sells now and especially on electric vehicles going forward, moving to self-driving cars.

Plantagentet skipped all that so it could just throw more barbs. Not very constructive or honest, that. Not sure how people live like that.

Now, que Planty who will find a way to warp all of this.

I rather enjoy his entertaining comebacks. He would make a good politician.

I don't see how factual statements can be "biased", Gungie. The facts are just the facts...they don't take sides. If you don't like the facts, its probably a sign that you are wrong about something.

GHung wrote:As for GM, they made a point of advertising that they are going to focus on what sells now and especially on electric vehicles going forward....

Hahahahah! Its always a good idea to look critically at what giant corporations say, especially when it doesn't square with what they are doing.

Obviously electric vehicles haven't been selling well for GM. The VOLT has been a massive disappointment---it NEVER met its sales targets and it NEVER was profitable, and thats why GM just cancelled the VOLT. If VOLTS were selling well and GM was making a profit on them, then GM wouldn't have cancelled the car and shut down the factory.

EXTREME PREDICTION LEADERBOARD "this is peak now. Wanna bet? The Real Pain starts . . . now." (11/21/18)" --pstarr"$0/barrel soon as per etp." (12/30/18)" --pstarrATTN: SHORT LOST A BET AND WON'T EVEN ADMIT HE MADE ONE. HE SHOULD NOT BE WELCOME HERE!!!

asg70 wrote:Only Plant could find a way to twist this into an Obama bash.

How is it an "Obama bash" to note that GM cancelled the Volt today?

The biggest automaker in the USA just cancelled their signature EV....thats a big deal...why don't you understand that its a significant event?

Yes, Obama and others made a big fuss about the Volt. And now the Volt is dead.

Those are the facts, dude.

I can see where you might be mad at GM for cancelling the bolt. Or you might be mad at Obama and the rest of the people who promoted the Volt in spite of its obvious flaws. But I sure don't see why you and gungie are DEFENDING GM. I thought you guys supported EVs.

Cheers!

Last edited by Plantagenet on Tue 27 Nov 2018, 23:12:07, edited 1 time in total.

Plantagenet wrote:However, now Trump is now threatening to revoke GM's tax breaks etc. if they don't reinstate the Volt

Trump cares about jobs, not the Volt. This is a guy who wants to bring back coal, after all.

EXTREME PREDICTION LEADERBOARD "this is peak now. Wanna bet? The Real Pain starts . . . now." (11/21/18)" --pstarr"$0/barrel soon as per etp." (12/30/18)" --pstarrATTN: SHORT LOST A BET AND WON'T EVEN ADMIT HE MADE ONE. HE SHOULD NOT BE WELCOME HERE!!!

Jeez Planty,,,, But you said; " How is it an "Obama bash" to note that GM cancelled the Bolt today?" Just sayin'.

Anyway, the Volt and the Bolt, along with some other models, are valuable development platforms. That has been going on in the auto industry for over a hundred years. Certain models don't have to break even to be an overall success for the company. How many very costly concept cars actually make it into production? How many drugs are developed that actually make it into someone's medicine cabinet? The technologies in the Bolt and the Volt have actually been tested in the thousands with real road miles. A significant part of that was paid for by consumers, and your government helped. But maybe you think GM (or Ford, or Fiat) can wave some magic technology wand and develop the perfect car for the future that everyone will want and buy without taking some risks. This is reality; not me defending these companies.......

..... and I still don't see what Obama has to do with any of this at this point.

Blessed are the Meek, for they shall inherit nothing but their Souls. - Anonymous Ghung Person

GHung wrote: ...GM (or Ford, or Fiat) can wave some magic technology wand and develop the perfect car for the future that everyone will want and buy without taking some risks.

Thats a silly idea.

GHung wrote: ...I still don't see what Obama has to do with any of this....

???????

You must have slept through the Obama presidency. You really think there is no connection between GM and the Obama and the now-dead-as-a-doornail Volt? Well, please allow me to show you some connections. Now pay attention...I only want to explain this to you once.

1. Obama funneled a great deal of taxpayer money to GM.2. The Obama administration put pressure on GM to build an electric car3. Once GM committed to build the Volt, the Obama administration crafted tax breaks to encourage people to buy the Volt and other EVs4. Obama personally promoted the Volt, visiting the plant and trying to hype the Volt, endorsing the Volt as "the car of the future". Obama even promised to personally buy a Volt after he left the White House. It was like some huckster selling soap-- it was completely unethical for a president to be endorsing and promoting a product sold by a corporation.5. Obama and the Ds and the MSM continue to boast that the Volt is part of Obama's "Green Legacy" for instance: chevy-s-volt-obama-s-green-legacy

Tax credits for hybrid vehicles began in 2005 under Bush (The Energy Policy Act of 2005). Not sure if Plant is lying or senile, but I'm ignoring the rest of Planty's patronizing and irrelevant ramblings.

Blessed are the Meek, for they shall inherit nothing but their Souls. - Anonymous Ghung Person