Character Who Could Beat Goku Of The Month: Suggestion Thread!

[QUOTE="My Potions Are Too Strong For You Traveller, post: 1617576, member: 25415"]^^^ Your lack of comprehension is apparent. Manhattan is an immaterial being existing outside of space and time who can manipulate the laws of nature. The only limitations are his human-structured mind's ability to interpret information.

I watched an episode of DBZ. In it, Goku tries to drive a car. Goku's power level: no drivers license. Its canon.[DOUBLEPOST=1483376418,1483375847][/DOUBLEPOST]Suggested character:

[/QUOTE]

First I want to address the "forum post" bit. That's basically a "respect thread," something people reference commonly in VS debates, but instead of only picking out prominent feats to show off a character's very best as such topics usually do, the creator seems to have listed most notable things, even the relatively mundane ones like floating and making water. If you find it inaccurate or lacking then feel free to point out why, I find no egregious errors or omissions based on research I did.

Instead of simply saying someone is lacking comprehension you should be able to back yourself up with evidence. Similarly, if you're making a grandiose claim such as near limitlessness then you'll need to sufficiently support it, and you're not.

Dr. Manhattan is impressive within the context of his own original story but not at all compared to Dragon Ball, which isn't surprising given the nature of the stories. The only thing you seem to be able to argue is his supposed nigh limitlessness based off of what I presume to either be broad unsupported statements found within the series which you're taking to an unreasonable extreme ("no limits fallacy") or just you dumping your headcanon, neither of which constitute proper evidence.

Also, Goku drives a tractor in DBS, he clearly has since earned his license. Checkmate.

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:09 pm

by VG_Addict

Lucifer Morningstar.

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:26 pm

by Apollo the Just

This thread is too good you guys any monthly installment I make can't live up to this content

BUT I WILL TRY. I APOLOGIZE FOR MY TARDINESS I WILL GET ON THIS MONTH'S BY THE END OF THE WEEK

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:38 am

by е и ժ е я

[QUOTE="I REALLY HATE PRESENTS!, post: 1617585, member: 18119"]First I want to address the "forum post" bit. That's basically a "respect thread," something people reference commonly in VS debates, but instead of only picking out prominent feats to show off a character's very best as such topics usually do, the creator seems to have listed most notable things, even the relatively mundane ones like floating and making water. If you find it inaccurate or lacking then feel free to point out why, I find no egregious errors or omissions based on research I did.

Instead of simply saying someone is lacking comprehension you should be able to back yourself up with evidence. Similarly, if you're making a grandiose claim such as near limitlessness then you'll need to sufficiently support it, and you're not.

Dr. Manhattan is impressive within the context of his own original story but not at all compared to Dragon Ball, which isn't surprising given the nature of the stories. The only thing you seem to be able to argue is his supposed nigh limitlessness based off of what I presume to either be broad unsupported statements found within the series which you're taking to an unreasonable extreme ("no limits fallacy") or just you dumping your headcanon, neither of which constitute proper evidence.

Also, Goku drives a tractor in DBS, he clearly has since earned his license. Checkmate.[/QUOTE]
Well if you want me to explain, I'm going to need you to ask why instead of just disagreeing outright. I have general knowledge across multiple fields to which this relates.

First: Manhattan can rearrange matter at will. He does not need direct physical contact with it, and his body is just a representation of his being. He exists beyond matter. With only the intent, he can restructure matter and space to create new matter. There is one known way to eliminate or affect his current manifestation, and that is to remove his intrinsic field, which Goku both knows nothing of and to our knowledge cannot affect. That much is absolutely verifiable, and it is still not a solution. Essentially, he could turn Goku into air if he wanted. To understand how this works, one has to understand that the basic principles of reality and the energies that determine the makeup of all matter are being over-written or controverted.

Manhattan is a quantum mind. The only thing he lacks in terms of ability is omniscience. For instance, he estimates that he could stop at least 60% of all warheads launched, as in nullify them and not simply detonate the entire area occupied by all warheads - and this is limited by his lack of prescient knowledge of the location and launch times and travel velocity and direction of all warheads, it is the specificity of the task. This is only to say that he estimates with absolute certainty that he could disable 60% of all warheads near instantaneously. Your interpretation of the provided data is based on improper assumption. If we see Manhattan directly rearranging gravitational, electromagnetic, and all nuclear forces, (which he does and not by way of instantaneous magic or quirk of writing, but in a context of these forces) we have clearly observed that he is capable of simply erasing Goku. He doesn't need to hit him with a projection, he doesn't need to make contact. He only has to will it to happen.

It is the same as presuming that because you have appendages to maneuver with, and even if you possess no container currently that they exist and you therefore can reasonable obtain one, and therefore despite my never having seen you fill a drinking glass with fluid, I may happily declare that it is within your ability to fill a cup with a fluid given the necessary components. If I were to say that we've never seen you do so and that I must therefore default at presuming you cannot, it would indicate a failure in my process of logic.

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:51 am

by I REALLY HATE POKEMON!

My Potions Are Too Strong For You Traveller, post: 1617694, member: 25415 wrote:Well if you want me to explain, I'm going to need you to ask why instead of just disagreeing outright. I have general knowledge across multiple fields to which this relates.

I don't understand. If I'd like you to explain then you require me to ask why? Must be my reading comprehension because I'm not following this. And I didn't just disagree for no reason, I explained my position decently enough.

My Potions Are Too Strong For You Traveller]First: Manhattan can rearrange matter at will.[/quote]
That ability is not limitless as you seem to imply. There's also evidence that it won't be effective on Goku wrote:He does not need direct physical contact with it, and his body is just a representation of his being. He exists beyond matter. With only the intent, he can restructure matter and space to create new matter. There is one known way to eliminate or affect his current manifestation, and that is to remove his intrinsic field, which Goku both knows nothing of and to our knowledge cannot affect. That much is absolutely verifiable, and it is still not a solution. Essentially, he could turn Goku into air if he wanted. To understand how this works, one has to understand that the basic principles of reality and the energies that determine the makeup of all matter are being over-written or controverted.

Existing beyond matter does not matter (no pun intended). Zamasu did as well and was immortal, yet he was still destroyed. Even if, for argument's sake, DM couldn't be destroyed then Goku could use the Evil Containment Wave to seal him away. Both options seem viable until I hear a reason why not.

Here is an explanation going over what the "intrinsic field" from Watchmen is according to Scientific American:

In a previous accident, the character had destroyed his "intrinsic field" (a made-up concept), which presumably stripped him of the fundamental forces—electromagnetic, strong force, weak force—other than gravity, that hold material together.

From what I can tell it doesn't seem to act as a type of special barrier or anything, it's just scifi mumbo jumbo explaining what keeps material together.

My Potions Are Too Strong For You Traveller]Manhattan is a quantum mind. The only thing he lacks in terms of ability is omniscience. For instance wrote:
Was it directly specified why he could only stop 60%, or are you simply inferring that, and if so, from what? I didn't find that explanation anywhere else.

My Potions Are Too Strong For You Traveller]If we see Manhattan directly rearranging gravitational wrote:
I've mentioned the "no limits fallacy" here already but maybe you didn't know what it meant, so here's some people explaining it better than I probably can (but I will try anyway using an example):

This is when someone states that because something has not demonstrated any limits (or only certain limits) then it has none (or only the ones demonstrated).

Example: "Itachi said that no one without a Mangekyou Sharingan can defeat him. Therefore he can beat all of DC, Marvel, DBZ, and Tenchi Muyo."

The person in this argument holds Itachi's statement to be absolute truth, ignoring the possibility that Itachi has no knowledge of certain enemies, or never expected to encounter them. The same can be said of Kishimoto: He never intended for his characters to be pitted in battle against characters from other works of fiction, so therefore statements like this do not hold true to other works of fiction necessarily. Furthermore, there is the possibility that in - universe, Itachi was lying, bluffing, misinformed, or deluded.

My Potions Are Too Strong For You Traveller]It is the same as presuming that because you have appendages to maneuver with wrote:
The problem is you're only defining the terms with one universe in mind, mine. Drop me off in "every drop of fluid you intend to fill cups with is sentient and has its own individual 'weight level' and some have developed their weight to insane levels" universe and I won't be able to. Take me to a neutral universe to face off against the water to see what happens. I might be a badass cup filler where I come from, with my spiffy appendages and all, but the water I'm now trying to fill cups up with has a weight level which is beyond my scope once we consider its properties vs mine. Your logic is fine, it's just too narrow.

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:19 am

by е и ժ е я

If you're going to completely change the fundamental tenets of reality, then nobody can certifiably do anything outside of their own continuity. All you're pointing out is that they don't share one and so we do not have 'canon' knowledge of how the rules from each reality may interact.

Re: Character Who Could Beat Goku Of The Month: Suggestion Thread!

Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:23 pm

by Artemis008

Also the grail itself from Fate Stay Night, it can erase timelines it doesn't like therefore goku can not win.

Re: Character Who Could Beat Goku Of The Month: Suggestion Thread!

Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:20 pm

by DarkZero

to be fair, spongebob's pain tolerance is largely dependent on location of impact. he can take a blow to the face like nothing but stubbing his toe is enough to make him cry for at least 20 minutes.