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The term “America”

Detail from Waldseemuller’s world map of 1507 showing the coast of Brazil: the first time America was called America. Click to enlarge.

The name “America” (1507) was first applied to the lands west across the ocean from Europe and Africa by Martin Waldseemuller, a German mapmaker. He named it after Amerigo Vespucci (Americus Vespucius in Latin), who he thought discovered it.

We think of Columbus as the one who “discovered” America, but in the early 1500s Vespucci’s books outsold Columbus’s by three to one. Also, Columbus never claimed to discover a New World – but Vespucci did!

Waldseemuller caught his mistake a year later when he read about Columbus, but by then it was too late – a thousand copies of his map (pictured above) had been sold all over Europe. He dropped the name in later maps.

In 1538 Mercator became the first person to call the Americas North and South America (in Latin). But he too dropped the name in his famous world map of 1569.

There were other Western names for America in the 1500s:

Land of the Holy Cross

New Spain

The island of Brazil (for South America)

The West Indies – now used just for the Caribbean

The New World (Terra Nova) – Vespucci’s name for it, still used

“America” did not catch on till the late 1500s. Mainly because it was more acceptable to German and Dutch mapmakers. It even sounded like a continent – Africa, Asia, America. Waldseemuller made it that way on purpose.

“America” meant both North and South America together, seen as one of the main parts of the world. Jefferson and Linnaeus had used it that way in the 1700s. That is still its main meaning in Spanish.

But in English, by 1815, “America” mainly meant the United States of America. In the Declaration of Independence, Jefferson called the Thirteen Colonies declaring their independence from Britain the “united States of America” (lower-case u). A year later the Continental Congress made the “United States of America” the official name of the new country, “America” for short.

When the word “Americans” entered English in 1578, it meant the native people of the Americas, misnamed “Indians” by Columbus. It was not applied to white people in North America till 1739. Before then they were called colonials or provincials. Most saw themselves as English. Independence from Britain changed all that. By the late 1700s “Americans” in English mainly meant the white people of the United States of America.

Some Latin Americans see that as a bit of Anglo American arrogance. Eduardo Galeano of Uruguay in 2009:

the grandchildren of the Pilgrims seized the name and everything else. Now they are the Americans. And those of us who live in the other Americas, who are we?

As late as 1913 Webster’s dictionary still limited “Americans” to just the “descendants of Europeans”.

Some people still think of it that way. Like Birthers. Or tweeters angered by Nina Davuluri becoming Miss America. Or those who “do not see colour”. Or the Hollywood executives who told film producer Christopher Lee there were no Americans in Amy Tan’s “Joy Luck Club”. Lee told them:

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The America thing is such a tired argument used by people with a chip on their shoulder. There’s a very simple reason why Americans are called “American” and others aren’t.

First, natives never called themselves “American” but Iroquois, Mohawk, Huron, etc. As far as I know they still go by their tribal names. Any other time you’d be arguing that people shouldn’t have names forced on them.

Second, there are lots of countries in North, Central and South America. They all inhabit the American continents. But the people who founded the United States of America are called Americans just like the people who founded the República Mexicana, República Federativa do Brasil and Dominion of Canada are called Mexicans, Brazilians and Canadians. If they would like to be called Americans then I’d be happy to oblige them… right after they change the names of their countries to República Americana, República Federativa do Americana and Dominion of America,

And, finally, various people describe their nationality as American in terms of citizenship. And many identify their ethnicity as African American, Arab American, Asian American, Italian American, Native American, etc. But there’s only one group who regularly describes their ethnicity as solely ‘American’. And that is the descendants of those who founded the United States. This is verified by how people mark their census forms. If you want to call yourself American then drop the African. But you can’t have it both ways.

“There’s a very simple reason why Americans are called “American” and others aren’t.” Bull, Google the following term: Etats unien. Da, I’m chocked by your inconsistency. How can a proud white nationalist, pro confederate guy or gal take pride in a “nationality” that was forced down the throats of your confederate forefathers? What became of all the talk about States rights? I thought people like you identified as Texans, Virginians, etc? The sound thrashing your ancestors got worked miracles and turned you into a “proud” American. Who said violence doesn’t work?

Almost every time a white person asks me where I’m from, they get impatient when I respond with “America” or with the name of my hometown/region. Over time, I realized that they are not interested in where you are from, but actually mean your ethnicity because they are fixating on your race. Almost always, it turns out they had expected me to respond with “China”, “Japan”, “Korea”, or any Asian/non-American name. If whites want Asians to drop the “Asian” in “Asian American”, that’s fine. Whites can start by accepting “America” or the name of any other American hometown/region as an answer when they ask Asian Americans where they’re from. You can’t have it both ways.

Asking someone where they’re from has nothing to do with “dropping the asian.” It’s about personal history not race. People can see your race just by looking. Even people of the same race ask each other where their family is from.

I’m not surprised people get impatient. They’re showing an interest by asking and get a smart alek answer. Most people are proud of their family and where they’re from and don’t mind sharing it.

>>

naishee

If you ask a German American their ethnicity most will say “German”. People who say “American” are mostly of British, Irish and French ancestry whose families have lived in America so long they have no specific knowledge of having lived anywhere else.

“If you ask a German American their ethnicity most will say “German”. People who say “American” are mostly of British, Irish and French ancestry whose families have lived in America so long they have no specific knowledge of having lived anywhere else.”

Complete bogus, plain and simple. Either you’re trolling, or you know nothing about the history of European migration to the US, US demographics, and *self-reported* ancestry*, where pretty much everybody reports something or other. I’m going with the first. Country of origin != ethnicity. All those Americans claiming Irish ancestry would be completely lost in Ireland.

Today, people in the US who identify [as American ethnicity] tend to have long genealogical histories within the country reaching back many generation. Ethnic “Americans” share most of their ancestry with modern-day British, Irish and French Americans, as well as with Melungeons and Métis in the Appalachian region.

In the 1980 census 49,598,035 Americans cited that they were of English ancestry, making them 26% of the country and the largest group at the time, and in fact larger than the population of England itself.[36] Slightly more than half of these people would cite that they were of “American” ancestry on subsequent censuses and virtually everywhere that “American” ancestry predominates on the 2000 census corresponds to places where “English” predominated on the 1980 census.[37][38]

“Country of origin != ethnicity. All those Americans claiming Irish ancestry would be completely lost in Ireland.
“

Whether someone would be “lost” is beside the point. Many immigrants continue to identify with their country of origin for generations. People don’t stop being what they are just because they move to another country.

First you continue to conflate ethnicity with ancestry. It’s ancestry we’re talking about here, which, as Sharina already pointed out, makes Germans one of the biggest, possibly the biggest, groups in the US. From the 2000 census:

“In 2000, 42.8 million people (15 percent of the population) considered
themselves to be of German (or part-German) ancestry, the most frequent response to the census question (Figure 2).4 Other ancestries with over 15 million people in 2000 included Irish (30.5 million, or 11 percent), African American (24.9 million, or 9 percent), English (24.5 million, or 9 percent), American (20.2 million, or 7 percent), Mexican (18.4 million, or 7 percent), and Italian (15.6 million, or 6 percent).”

Apparently you did care when you thought you were “correcting” someone.

To everyone else….da jokah is a prime example of what happens when you rely on one source of information to tell you everything without doing further research to verify if there is contradictory knowledge.

@naishee

Good catch on your part because he often attempts to change the goal post on subjects.

That’s why I said whites want to know my “ethnicity” when they zero in on my race. Or are you so stupid that you can’t even read?

Even people of the same race ask each other where their family is from.

I was talking about people who ask me where “I” am from, not where my “family” is from. Learn to read, stupid.

If white people want to know someone’s ethnicity or where someone’s family is from, they can just ask. It’s not rude to be frank. White people ask each other where they’re from all the time and they will politely accept the name of an American city/state/region as an answer. But they apply a different standard to Asians. You can’t have it both ways.

That’s a new one. The Germans I knew always used to say that the biggest population of Germans outside of Germany lived in the USA, and constitued the biggest immigrant group.

Germanic Americans are, also, probably the largest white immigrant group, if “Germanic” could be defined as a group. (I don’t think “Germanic” would include the Irish, though.) I also believe some, or many, German settlers could have anglicised their names to fit into their new, English-speaking country. That might’ve also happened during the 2nd World War, to distance themselves from Hitler.

Over time, a distinct German-ness would just be “submerged” into a generic “British” identity by mistake. I noticed that a couple of times with white Americans when they were in Europe.

I’m not conflating anything. Rather, you’re conflating national citizenship and ancestry with ethnicity. My point had nothing to do with who the largest ancestral group on the census was. I couldn’t care less. My comment concerned the ancestry of those who identified as being ETHNICALLY AMERICAN. As my earlier quote regarding the 1980 census shows, there are more Americans of English ancestry than any other. But they’re not listed as the largest group on the 2010 census because over half chose to list themselves as ETHNICALLY AMERICAN instead.

In the 1980 census 49,598,035 Americans cited that they were of English ancestry, making them 26% of the country and the largest group at the time, and in fact larger than the population of England itself.[36] Slightly more than half of these people would cite that they were of “American” ancestry on subsequent censuses and virtually everywhere that “American” ancestry predominates on the 2000 census corresponds to places where “English” predominated on the 1980 census.[37][38]

>>

bulanik Most Americans are of British, Irish and French ancestry?

I didn’t say most American citizens were of British, Irish or French ancestry. They are but that wasn’t my claim. My claim was that most people who identify themselves as being ETHNICALLY AMERICAN were of British, Irish and French ancestry. Most Germans don’t identify themselves as being ETHNICALLY AMERICAN.

The Germans I knew always used to say that the biggest population of Germans outside of Germany lived in the USA, and constitued the biggest immigrant group.

I find it funny when certain people of one nation call themselves as americans and exclude everyone else. The only real “americans” are naturally the natives. Everybody else is an immigrant or their children.

I was talking about people who ask me where “I” am from, not where my “family” is from. Learn to read, stupid.

So you get your panties in a wad when someone asks where you’re from instead of where your family is from? Why don’t you just say, “I’m from Cupertino but my parents are from Taiwan” ? As often as you claim to be asked and as much as it bothers you, you’d have to be pretty stupid not to have figured out a suitable answer. Or maybe you’re just looking for something to gripe about?

I was talking about people who ask me where “I” am from, not where my “family” is from. Learn to read, stupid.

So you get your knickers in a twist when someone asks where you’re from instead of where your family is from? Why don’t you just say, “I’m from Cupertino but my parents are from Taiwan” ? As often as you claim to be asked and as much as it bothers you, you’d have to be pretty dumb not to have figured out a suitable answer. Or maybe you’re just looking for something to whine about?

[…] "The name "America" (1507) was first applied to the Americas by Martin Waldseemuller, a German mapmaker, naming it after its Western discoverer, Amerigo Vespucci (Americus Vespucius in Latin)." […]

I never told you I was from Cupertino, but yeah, that’s because I told your sock puppet, Churchs, that. I figured you were stupid enough to fall for it, which is the reason why I engaged you in the discussion to begin with. And it turns out I was right. Unless, of course, you mean to say that you’re spending hours reading all my comments from over a year ago, which would only be more pathetic if you weren’t a sock puppet. But I know you are one. Maybe someone as stupid as you would fall for your puppet, but not me or most of the commenters.

Or maybe you’re just looking for something to whine about?

That’s why you’re here. 90% of your posts on this blog are essentially bratty tantrums in response to Abagond’s threads. Grow up. Never mind, you can’t.

Spare me the “I set a trap for you” nonsense. You’ve been screaming “Churchs” for months. Of course I went back and read their comments. Not so much yours though. Because I’m interested in rational discussion and most of what you say doesn’t fit the bill.

jefe — You understand incorrectly. Most ethnic Americans are of British, Irish and French ancestry,

sorry, you understood incorrectly. When I said that a portion of those identifying as ethnically American also marked themselves as black, it never indicated what “most” of them were.

Most of people who identify as ethnically “American” also identify as white and trace their ancestry in the USA back before the Civil War. The ancestry will have a high content of English and Scotch-Irish, and also some Irish, French, Dutch and German. OF course they also could be partially other European, or even have some African or Native American ancestry. A minority of them mark themselves as racially black.

I read up quite a bit on the concept of “ethnic American”. I don’t think I understand this incorrectly at all.

You keep saying that but my experience and the sources I’ve cited don’t support that. Do you have anything to back it up? I’d also be interested to know whether you or anyone on this blog marks just American on their census forms. I think that would be an interesting follow up post to this one.

To DJ’s credit, he was not referring to “Americans” but rather those that identify as ethnically “American”. There is a huge difference between the two concepts.

Yes, you are correct that “German” is the ancestry group that is stated / claimed by most Americans. But if they actually identify as ethnically German, then they are German-Americans, not ethnically “American” Americans.

About 11-12% of Americans do not recognize themselves as descendant of any particular European ethnic group (nor any non-European ethnic group either). They have been in the USA for so many generations that any identity with any ethnic group has been completely lost.

They are likely to be of mostly mixed European ancestry composed of those groups who were in the USA well before the civil war. Those that maintained an unbroken line of English or Irish ancestry for 10 generations will likely still continue to identify with their ancestral ethnic origin, but the American that is 1/4 English, 1/4 Scotch-Irish, 1/8 French, 1/8 Dutch, 1/8 German, 1/8 Irish, all traceable to before the Civil war (or at least 6-7 generations or more – some could even be 15 generations) might have lost any identity with any European ethnic group. They mark themselves at ethnically “American”. Now a DNA trace may even find that there is also some small amounts of Native American and African ancestry mixed in a large proportion of them, but they do not identify with it.

However, contrary to what DJ claims, some (a small minority no doubt) of those that marked themselves as ethnically “American” also marked themselves as “Black”. So ethnic origin marker is not the same as racial self-classification.

Most German Americans are concentrated in the Midwest, the Plains and the interior Mid-atlantic states. Ethnic “American” is most common in southern Appalachia (from West Virginia to Northeast Alabama), the region between the Ohio and Tennessee rivers, and into Arkansas and Southern Missouri. It is also the most common white identity in those areas of the South where blacks outnumber whites. If you check the history of those areas, you will find that when the Scotch-Irish first came into the USA in the late 1700s – early 1800s, many of them often did not stop at the areas along the coast, but moved inland. Some of the English and French and Dutch did too and intermarried with them and later with each other. By the 1900s, most of them simply identified as “American” with no particular ethnic origin affiliation.

Rofl. He is claiming to have gone back and read the responses, but considering that discussion with you and churches could be on any thread from any time period I find that an extremely hilarious cover. I don’t even know where that discussion is and I have been here longer.

Though bulanik did bring up a good yet common point. Over time even the German citizen can drop his german-ness. Can we really say that most of those who turn to identify as American are still not a majority German ancestory? I know quite a few Germans who fall in that category. Surprisingly i might add.

Actually I believe there is a section in one of da jokah’s source that back up what you are saying. I will dig through and pull it. I personally find it interesting how his sources only support have of what he says and can be quite contradictory at times.

I read the breakdown of the US census statistics of the cross-section of ethnic origin in the USA vis a vis racial identification. Over 90% of those who identified as ethnically “American” also identified as “white” but not all of them. Some of them did mark “black”. I will have to see if I can find it again online. You are free to look it up too.

Anyhow, it doesn’t really change anything – I really don’t feel a need to go any further on this.

Actually I believe there is a section in one of da jokah’s source that back up what you are saying. I will dig through and pull it.

Thanks. Up to you if you want to use DJ’s sources to support whatever. I think Americans are really quite mixed up anyhow. Some who identify as German-American could certainly have a parent or grandparent who identified as ethnically “American”.

Over time even the German citizen can drop his german-ness. Can we really say that most of those who turn to identify as American are still not a majority German ancestory? I know quite a few Germans who fall in that category.

I suspect that if any American is more than 50% a particular ancestry, he might choose to identify himself as that. Or maybe not. It could be possible that someone could be 50% or more German ancestry and choose to identify themselves as ethnically American instead of German-American, esp. if their ancestors have been in the USA over 5-6 generations or more, esp. if they did not grow up near any area that was majority German-American.

Thanks for doing a post on this interesting subject, Abagond. I’m sure we’ve all noticed the assumption held by some that the only people in this part of the world who can call themselves ‘American’ live exclusively in the United States. We’re also aware of the racial assumptions inherent in the term as well, since it is (mostly) whites, the racists in particular, who like to apply the term to themselves to the exclusion of everyone else.

Let’s set aside for a moment the fact that America is not the original name given to this land by the indigenous people. In my opinion, everyone who is native to North, Central, or South America is, geographically speaking, an ‘American’ because collectively these lands all comprise ‘the Americas’. I have pointed this out on occasion to others and have gotten some interesting responses. For example, some people clearly never considered anyone living outside of the United States as American; even Canadians are called ‘Canadian-American’. When I’ve pointed out that Mexico sits on the North American continent and therefore is, at least geographically, an ‘American’ country, one response I got was, “But they don’t see themselves that way!” This begs the question of what, or who, is actually American? One may be from Mexico, or Honduras, or Equador, or Canada etc., but technically one is still ‘American’. The varying cultural, ethnic, linguistic, racial, and historical differences are what keep us all from being a united people who call themselves ‘Americans’.

I know, right? First Da Jokah claims to have gone back and read my posts then in the same breath he claims not to have actually read them. And yet he just happens to have “found” very specific information I shared with him when he was under the username “Churchs”.

@ Da Jokah/Churchs

I know you’re using a sock puppet, dumbass. You’re like the brat who steals a cookie from the jar and when asked if he stole it, he says “No!” with crumbs spraying out of his mouth. I’m sorry you weren’t taught that lying is wrong. You were raised poorly. I can tell. I feel for you. I really do.

I have seen white immigrants reply with the names of American cities/regions when asked where they are from, and their words are usually taken at face value. Interestingly, I myself have encountered defensiveness from white immigrants when asking where they are from (while asking politely and ever so gently, of course). Usually, when white people want to know each others’ ethnicity or ancestry, they ask directly instead of beating around the bush. Some whites have asked me my ethnicity/ancestry directly, and each time, I was happy to share. But the vast majority of the time, whites ask Asians where they are from, not for their ethnicity or ancestry. It is implicitly assumed that Asians cannot be American, a benefit of the doubt that is extended to even white immigrants who have no European ancestry (white-looking Middle Easterners).

“Two-thirds of Americans of Asian descent are immigrants. I don’t think it’s surprising that a perception may present of many Asian-Americans having direct foreign origins.”

That has nothing to do with it. If someone says they are from America, then they are not part of that two-thirds. To not take their answer at face value, particularly when it is given in an American accent, as it almost always is, is somewhere between idiotic and racist.

The issue is not the question. “Where are you from?” but “Where are you really from?”

They not only banned immigration, they killed most off in the process. It is surprising they were not completely wiped out after decades of ethnic cleansing.

I wonder if high schools in the western states removed it from their history books just like the Mississippi schools tried to pretend that lynching of blacks didn’t happen. Based on what college friend’s wife who grew up in Boise, Idaho told me, I think yes.

[…] "The name "America" (1507) was first applied to the Americas by Martin Waldseemuller, a German mapmaker, naming it after its Western discoverer, Amerigo Vespucci (Americus Vespucius in Latin)." […]

You delete the comment by that thug called Da Jokah along with the comments denouncing his thuggishness, but you tolerate that thug as a member in good standing! Do everybody a favor and flush the idiot from the forum. I guess you won’t do it because you want to cultivate your image as a tolerant guy.

“He is dragging you down into the mud and you are following him.” Hilarious, you can’t back your absurd assessment with facts. I’ve always remained civil to everyone on this blog, even when I’ve disagreed with them. I resent your putting me in the same box as Da. You were totally oblivious to his comment until I took him to task for it, only then did you apply your “even handed” approach and deleted his rude remark to “naishee”, I believe, because “naishee” pointed out to your cretin buddy that German Americans are the biggest white ethnic block. Man up Abagond and ban the idiot. A thought just occurred to me, maybe he is your alter ego. Say it ain’t so.

north of reading pa you see ‘pennsylvania dutch’, ie corruption of ‘deutsch’, but from the highway it is a deriative ‘kitschy’ thing to try to get people to buy those hexes you see on barns, and antique furniture, noodle pies, etc. it’s a little different once you drill down because there are religious sects: mennonite, amish, etc.

I know ‘dutchies’ can be quite proud of their heritage and will use some slang derivative of german words ‘rooching’ etc. but from the people i met there was no all-out effort to represent as ‘german’ or ‘germanic’ and certainly not ‘german-american’ by those of my generation or thereabouts, ymmv…

I mean there’s a difference, maybe, with marching in a parade once or twice a year and showing some ethnic (sub-“white” that is) solidarity? and saying you’re a ‘german-american?’

I think the overall idea here is that there is some exclusion of non-whites obviously from dj’s perspective, and america at large, which will probably encourage non-majority sectors of the population to congregate in a i cant think of the word? syllogistic? or unified identity? as a subset, then we get into separate not equal, etc etc.

i think this whole thing with da joka trying to slice and dice and play lawyer on each and every word (he must have picked that up from thwack lately) is so draining, each thread is worse with him…

@da jokah “thug life” are kidding me dude, really… you do yourself great disrespect to even say that, by the amount of time you must spend typing here, you have no time to ‘get on your grind’, please. you really showin your ass now

Re parts of the US population that refer to themselves as “Americans” rather than as ethnically “American”.

They ARE 2 different concepts, and I don’t think I appreciated this meaning earlier in the discussion. It’s something I understand in principle, but not something I’d be familiar with at all. To generalise (!): the perception from where I am tends to look at ALL white, non-Natives as immigrants, a mix of various Europeans.

So you when you said that if:

.. “German” is the ancestry group that is stated / claimed by most Americans. But if they actually identify as ethnically German, then they are German-Americans, not ethnically “American” Americans…

Then, I see the difference more clearly, and grasp the following:

About 11-12% of Americans do not recognize themselves as descendant of any particular European ethnic group (nor any non-European ethnic group either). They have been in the USA for so many generations that any identity with any ethnic group has been completely lost.

They are likely to be of mostly mixed European ancestry composed of those groups who were in the USA well before the civil war. Those that maintained an unbroken line of English or Irish ancestry for 10 generations will likely still continue to identify with their ancestral ethnic origin, but the American that is 1/4 English, 1/4 Scotch-Irish, 1/8 French, 1/8 Dutch, 1/8 German, 1/8 Irish, all traceable to before the Civil war (or at least 6-7 generations or more – some could even be 15 generations) might have lost any identity with any European ethnic group. They mark themselves at ethnically “American”. Now a DNA trace may even find that there is also some small amounts of Native American and African ancestry mixed in a large proportion of them, but they do not identify with it.

However, contrary to what DJ claims, some (a small minority no doubt) of those that marked themselves as ethnically “American” also marked themselves as “Black”. So ethnic origin marker is not the same as racial self-classification…

Most German Americans are concentrated in the Midwest, the Plains and the interior Mid-atlantic states. Ethnic “American” is most common in southern Appalachia (from West Virginia to Northeast Alabama), the region between the Ohio and Tennessee rivers, and into Arkansas and Southern Missouri. It is also the most common white identity in those areas of the South where blacks outnumber whites. If you check the history of those areas, you will find that when the Scotch-Irish first came into the USA in the late 1700s – early 1800s, many of them often did not stop at the areas along the coast, but moved inland. Some of the English and French and Dutch did too and intermarried with them and later with each other. By the 1900s, most of them simply identified as “American” with no particular ethnic origin affiliation.

[…] "The name "America" (1507) was first applied to the Americas by Martin Waldseemuller, a German mapmaker, naming it after its Western discoverer, Amerigo Vespucci (Americus Vespucius in Latin)." […]