"Reason why our team is #1 in T20Is is because our guys don't participate in IPL" : Waqar Younis

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"Reason why our team is #1 in T20Is is because our guys don't participate in IPL" : Waqar Younis

Waqar Younis speaking on TV:

"Although it was a series against a weaker team, the good thing is that an avenue (for resumption of international cricket) has opened for Pakistan"

"It was said before that Karachi was not a safe place and matches were not being played here"

"I would say that Karachi is one of the safest cities of Pakistan"

"I was really impressed at that crowd turn out for essentially a dead-rubber game"

"After the result of the first game when WI were bowled out for 60 , I thought that we may not get the same number of people in the crowd but it was amazing to see people turn up in numbers"

"People of Karachi were hungry for cricket"

"International cricket returned after a long time to Karachi and people really enjoyed it; it was like a 'mela' or a festival, and it was entertainment for all"

"Beggars can't be choosers, you need to understand that" [Talking about the WI team being weak and the series not that competitive]

"You will need to take baby steps to restore cricket and along the way there will be refusals (to tour Pakistan) also"

"We have struggled 9 years (to get intl cricket back home) so it will take some time for confidence (in Pakistan as as a safe country) to return back to normal"

"Good thing is that all people, including ICC and the media, who are visiting us are going away with a good impression and giving us 10/10 (for arrangements), so I will say its a wonderful thing to happen"

"We hear that half of PSL will be played in Pakistan so hopefully, the day when a Test series will be played here is also not that far away"

"If PSL games are played in Pakistan, then it will be a huge breakthrough"

"The same guys who played in the PSL like Badree, Walton, Fletcher came to Pakistan as they felt comfortable"

"In T20 bowlers have gone on defensive; as a coach I tell the bowlers that you have 24 balls and you be responsible and not bowl a single bad ball"

"In the old days, a captain would never change a bowler just because he got hit for one or 2 fours"

"Cricket has changed but I would say it a good change"

"Its a batsman's game; you have made pitches flat and made bats so thick and the moment there is some tampering, you create so much 'khup' (fuss)"

"They are saying lets kill reverse swing - Why would you do that? I don't understand that, its an art"

"I would say use one make of ball ( one type of leather) and make sure that reverse swing comes into play after 40 overs and then use that art to put some kind of check on batsman

"You can use SG, reader ball which after 30 overs (will reverse) and you dont need to put sand-paper on it"

"How may cricketers want to play Test cricket? Priorities have changed"

"The priority now is IPL where a cricketer can earn $2 million whereas here he will get $25k here (coming to Pakistan)"

"Even today, if you gave me a choice to play OD, T20 or Test cricket, I would still play Test cricket"

"Even in the old days we had people who went to play for Kerry Packer"

"There is a lot of money now in cricket and a few leagues have sprung up but its the responsibility of cricket boards to make sure that international cricket does not die out"

"The reason why our team is number one in T20Is is because our guys don't participate in IPL"

"Because of not playing IPL, our boys are down to earth and they want to play international cricket"

"When a kid starts to play cricket, he doesnt do it thinking he will earn millions; instead he does that because of his love for cricket"

Not playing in IPL makes the boys down to Earth. Point taken. Why is the team ranked 7th in tests and ODIs then?

Ranked 7th in tests because Pakistan lost away series to NZ and Aus, with most test sides losing test series away (did win against WI). The loss of Misbah and Younis requires a rebuild not only of the middle order but also have the psychology of the side. The loss to SL was the only one that was bad, but again, this is a side being rebuilt, after periods of going unbeaten.

It's not so long ago that Pak had gone 7 test series unbeaten, and a separate period of 7 series in 2010-12.

India just got hammered in SA and are supposedly no. 1...they will also lose in England likely in Aus. After India's previous stint at no. 1, they were humiliated by Eng and Aus and dropped to 6 so stay in your lane.

As for ODIs, Pak have just lost one series since Aus, that too quite competitive against NZ. They have also emphatically won the CT so the rankings do not accurately represent the match reality.

Ranked 7th in tests because Pakistan lost away series to NZ and Aus, with most test sides losing test series away (did win against WI). The loss of Misbah and Younis requires a rebuild not only of the middle order but also have the psychology of the side. The loss to SL was the only one that was bad, but again, this is a side being rebuilt, after periods of going unbeaten.

It's not so long ago that Pak had gone 7 test series unbeaten, and a separate period of 7 series in 2010-12.

India just got hammered in SA and are supposedly no. 1...they will also lose in England likely in Aus. After India's previous stint at no. 1, they were humiliated by Eng and Aus and dropped to 6 so stay in your lane.

As for ODIs, Pak have just lost one series since Aus, that too quite competitive against NZ. They have also emphatically won the CT so the rankings do not accurately represent the match reality.

Buhaha! Quite competitive against NZ? Mate! You were whitewashed 5-0 by a depleted NZ team. Such an amusement your post is!

I don't think most other teams field full strength T20 sides unless it's a world cup. It seems to be used more as a platform to introduce newer players to international cricket and improve bench strength.

"Because of not playing IPL, our boys are down to earth and they want to play international cricket"

Pak players play an insane amount of T20 leagues.. they go to whichever league that is willing to take them. Their star bowler just took a decision to reduce his Test duties so that he c an play more counties and T20 leagues.. and half their team went to play in ten over tournament.. right.. they want to play international cricket.. They want to play wherever they can get money. nothing wrong in that, they are professionals just pointing out the stupidity of that comment

I don't think most other teams field full strength T20 sides unless it's a world cup. It seems to be used more as a platform to introduce newer players to international cricket and improve bench strength.

This is the smarter way to go about things, and PCB messed up big time this series here

- Most teams don't field their full strength team for T20Is and use them as a platform to groom youngsters or provide opportunities for fringe players (See India's squad for recent tournament)
- Pak has played insane number of games against WI and SL who hardly compete in this format. Both SL and WI team had players who were willing to play Pak in Pak rather than their best (even best of SL is hardly anything now). Pak also had a series against World XI, again against who were willing to play in pak rather than the best of world. All this adds up, nearly 9 Matches against WI and 6 more against SL and World XI. That is nearly 15 matches where they played against sub standard teams and some times almost a club level teams. The one credible team they ahve beaten is NZ and even they rested their best player for the final match

- Most teams don't field their full strength team for T20Is and use them as a platform to groom youngsters or provide opportunities for fringe players (See India's squad for recent tournament)
- Pak has played insane number of games against WI and SL who hardly compete in this format. Both SL and WI team had players who were willing to play Pak in Pak rather than their best (even best of SL is hardly anything now). Pak also had a series against World XI, again against who were willing to play in pak rather than the best of world. All this adds up, nearly 9 Matches against WI and 6 more against SL and World XI. That is nearly 15 matches where they played against sub standard teams and some times almost a club level teams. The one credible team they ahve beaten is NZ and even they rested their best player for the final match

We are fine t20 side and thats it.But its not a big acheivement unless we perform in other formats.Why are you so much concerned.

I don't know why people bring IPL into everything. India has the best winning percentage in ODIs/T20s among the test playing nations. even i Test India has the second best winning percentage among all the test playing nations.. In that time they have been No 1 team, won world cup, CT, reached finals of T20, CT, and were the most successful team in ICC tournaments.. People just an itch that they want to scratch..

"Because of not playing IPL, our boys are down to earth and they want to play international cricket"

Pak players play an insane amount of T20 leagues.. they go to whichever league that is willing to take them. Their star bowler just took a decision to reduce his Test duties so that he c an play more counties and T20 leagues.. and half their team went to play in ten over tournament.. right.. they want to play international cricket.. They want to play wherever they can get money. nothing wrong in that, they are professionals just pointing out the stupidity of that comment

By extension , they are resorted to playing multiple leagues to make decent money as they can't play IPL. Because of their experience in playing in diverse conditions and diverse set of players, they have acquired a unique set of skills which enable them to excel in this format in varied conditions because of which they are a number 1 team in this format.

Pakistan players are down to earth. Haha what? half of them are busy liking posts about them on twitter. And I like most Pakistan players but being down to earth or missing IPL is not the reason they are no. 1 in T20Is.

why people are talking about IPL when it has nothing to do with Pakistan's win over WI. if waqar the coach thinks not playing IPL helped them then he might be right.
IPL is long tourney. It is hard not to get injured. So it might help the players not playing.

IPL is the WWE of Cricket, it's entertainment, nothing more, nothing less. Which means the actual quality of cricket is low. You only have to see the dollies, hit me in the arc deliveries, and leg side pie deliveries to see this. At least with T20i, teams are playing against XI professionals, and not 50/50 teams made up of Internationals and unknowns from the domestic circuit - who are never to be seen/heard of again.

IPL is the WWE of Cricket, it's entertainment, nothing more, nothing less. Which means the actual quality of cricket is low. You only have to see the dollies, hit me in the arc deliveries, and leg side pie deliveries to see this. At least with T20i, teams are playing against XI professionals, and not 50/50 teams made up of Internationals and unknowns from the domestic circuit - who are never to be seen/heard of again.

So going by your post, I assume you follow IPL very closely since you know so much about it?
If you dont follow IPL then i assume you’re spouting garbage and lies?

IPL is the WWE of Cricket, it's entertainment, nothing more, nothing less. Which means the actual quality of cricket is low. You only have to see the dollies, hit me in the arc deliveries, and leg side pie deliveries to see this. At least with T20i, teams are playing against XI professionals, and not 50/50 teams made up of Internationals and unknowns from the domestic circuit - who are never to be seen/heard of again.

IPL is actually close or is on par with international standards. The foreign players are elite level and as for domestic players; their batsmen are prolific and bowlers are actually decent unlike the first few editions of IPL. They also play on far better wickets with some diversification in conditions as they play all over India.

So much hulaboo over the format for which no one cares other than wt20. Just watch team played by NZ in T20 series. They rotate all players. But there is so much hulaboo by Pakistani over insignificant no 1 ranking in this format.

So much hulaboo over the format for which no one cares other than wt20. Just watch team played by NZ in T20 series. They rotate all players. But there is so much hulaboo by Pakistani over insignificant no 1 ranking in this format.

Who says nobody cares. After winning Nobody trophy in srilanka, indian fans including me were hyper.
People enjoy the game it is just not the real test of cricketing ability.
Pakistan is 1 T20 side and it is right fully. you win the matches and gett he no 1 title.

If IPL was a high quality tournament, then how comes India are not on top of the T20 rankings, or have not won the World T20 many times? These are the questions you should be asking.

Because IPL promotes quality in foreign players too who then plays against India in world cup. It's the clash of the titans of IPL in the world cup T20 and there's no shame in getting defeated by peers who built their base on the same platform.

Well said Shaz, all this money from IPL and no result - look who’s at the top of T20 rankings with a supposedly inferior league.

We are not no7 like your team in other formats. Only 10 points lesser and 2 positions lower. Also we are the finalist of last World Cup. You will see what it means by premier cricket league in few days. World best batting talent and good bowlers playing together or against each other. Importantly not on slow wickets, infront of empty stadium, or 35 yards boundaries. You will hardly see retired players in any of the teams.

We are not no7 like your team in other formats. Only 10 points lesser and 2 positions lower. Also we are the finalist of last World Cup. You will see what it means by premier cricket league in few days. World best batting talent and good bowlers playing together or against each other. Importantly not on slow wickets, infront of empty stadium, or 35 yards boundaries. You will hardly see retired players in any of the teams.

Do not forget, #7 ranking THRASHED #2 in the CT17 ODI final in neutral conditions.

So what? Upset happens in cricket that too in one off game. We have seen top teams losing a game to minnows.

I was responding to your claim that Pakistan is #7 in ODIs. What was your point of Pakistan being #7 then? Enlighten me. Were you mocking Pakistan's ranking? Surely not!!!

Pakistan has the superior W/L vs. India, this is not a one off, it's decades of battering. This is why Indians have been reduced to the WC head-to-head record exclusively. It's the one stat India have superiority over Pakistan. (I should remind you Indians boasted about ICC tournament stats, but that changed after CT17).

So much hulaboo over the format for which no one cares other than wt20. Just watch team played by NZ in T20 series. They rotate all players. But there is so much hulaboo by Pakistani over insignificant no 1 ranking in this format.

Itís only insignificant when you donít have it... if India was number 1 ranked then Jai Hind and India is soooperpower and IPL is da best.

India isn't, because we don't ask minnows to come to our house and play some t20s with us just for charity.

Hope next time when you ask this question you make sure that your country isn't bundled out on a sub 100 score in a t20 match against india.

7-1 head to head gives perdect reply to waqar, why not playing ipl is good for pakistani players.

Pakistan were on TOP of the T20 rankings BEFORE the West Indies T20 series this week! What point are you making? West Indies are minnows? They have won the World T20 more times than any team. New Zealand and SL are also T20 minnows?

Go back and do your homework, because we all know the only way India gets to the top of any rankings is by battering one team at home.

People cannot accept the fact that IPL is not the Creme de la Creme of T20 but a circus, and neither is money the motivation for success - Pakistan has proved this with the rankings, and the CT17 win, and will continue to do so Inshallah.

"Although it was a series against a weaker team, the good thing is that an avenue (for resumption of international cricket) has opened for Pakistan"

"It was said before that Karachi was not a safe place and matches were not being played here"

"I would say that Karachi is one of the safest cities of Pakistan"

"I was really impressed at that crowd turn out for essentially a dead-rubber game"

"After the result of the first game when WI were bowled out for 60 , I thought that we may not get the same number of people in the crowd but it was amazing to see people turn up in numbers"

"People of Karachi were hungry for cricket"

"International cricket returned after a long time to Karachi and people really enjoyed it; it was like a 'mela' or a festival, and it was entertainment for all"

"Beggars can't be choosers, you need to understand that" [Talking about the WI team being weak and the series not that competitive]

"You will need to take baby steps to restore cricket and along the way there will be refusals (to tour Pakistan) also"

"We have struggled 9 years (to get intl cricket back home) so it will take some time for confidence (in Pakistan as as a safe country) to return back to normal"

"Good thing is that all people, including ICC and the media, who are visiting us are going away with a good impression and giving us 10/10 (for arrangements), so I will say its a wonderful thing to happen"

"We hear that half of PSL will be played in Pakistan so hopefully, the day when a Test series will be played here is also not that far away"

"If PSL games are played in Pakistan, then it will be a huge breakthrough"

"The same guys who played in the PSL like Badree, Walton, Fletcher came to Pakistan as they felt comfortable"

"In T20 bowlers have gone on defensive; as a coach I tell the bowlers that you have 24 balls and you be responsible and not bowl a single bad ball"

"In the old days, a captain would never change a bowler just because he got hit for one or 2 fours"

"Cricket has changed but I would say it a good change"

"Its a batsman's game; you have made pitches flat and made bats so thick and the moment there is some tampering, you create so much 'khup' (fuss)"

"They are saying lets kill reverse swing - Why would you do that? I don't understand that, its an art"

"I would say use one make of ball ( one type of leather) and make sure that reverse swing comes into play after 40 overs and then use that art to put some kind of check on batsman

"You can use SG, reader ball which after 30 overs (will reverse) and you dont need to put sand-paper on it"

"How may cricketers want to play Test cricket? Priorities have changed"

"The priority now is IPL where a cricketer can earn $2 million whereas here he will get $25k here (coming to Pakistan)"

"Even today, if you gave me a choice to play OD, T20 or Test cricket, I would still play Test cricket"

"Even in the old days we had people who went to play for Kerry Packer"

"There is a lot of money now in cricket and a few leagues have sprung up but its the responsibility of cricket boards to make sure that international cricket does not die out"

"The reason why our team is number one in T20Is is because our guys don't participate in IPL"

"Because of not playing IPL, our boys are down to earth and they want to play international cricket"

"When a kid starts to play cricket, he doesnt do it thinking he will earn millions; instead he does that because of his love for cricket"

my dear sir , i think you should post the questions along with the quotes waqar made soevery one understands the context, he did say these words but the context he made them in was very different to the inference you ghave drawn from his answers

my dear sir , i think you should post the questions along with the quotes waqar made soevery one understands the context, he did say these words but the context he made them in was very different to the inference you ghave drawn from his answers

It's a discussion, not a press conference so it's not a simple case of Q/A.

His complete comments are all present in the first post of this thread that you've quoted.

It's a discussion, not a press conference so it's not a simple case of Q/A.

His complete comments are all present in the first post of this thread that you've quoted.

exactly, the anchor was basically asking him about franchise cricket being more imp for players now over representing their country ( esp given the windies situation) , waqar's respnse was that since the ipl ( the most lucrative option) was not available to pak players, their best lucrative option was to represent the country and hence they are very keen to get into the national squad and perfom, thats why they are no1 cause they dont play in the ipl ..... please do correct me if my understanding is wrong

exactly, the anchor was basically asking him about franchise cricket being more imp for players now over representing their country ( esp given the windies situation) , waqar's respnse was that since the ipl ( the most lucrative option) was not available to pak players, their best lucrative option was to represent the country and hence they are very keen to get into the national squad and perfom, thats why they are no1 cause they dont play in the ipl ..... please do correct me if my understanding is wrong

Yes. All of that is in the first post of the thread.

"The priority now is IPL where a cricketer can earn $2 million whereas here he will get $25k here (coming to Pakistan)"

"Even today, if you gave me a choice to play OD, T20 or Test cricket, I would still play Test cricket"

"Even in the old days we had people who went to play for Kerry Packer"

"There is a lot of money now in cricket and a few leagues have sprung up but its the responsibility of cricket boards to make sure that international cricket does not die out"

"The reason why our team is number one in T20Is is because our guys don't participate in IPL"

"Because of not playing IPL, our boys are down to earth and they want to play international cricket"

"When a kid starts to play cricket, he doesnt do it thinking he will earn millions; instead he does that because of his love for cricket"

yet the title of your article makes one infer something that he did not mean, thats my point -you are taking his quote out of context ...... anyway, if you insist you are right... i have no argument with you .... was just stating my opinion based on the my views as i saw the program too and my impressions of what he said are totally contrary to what you are implying .... peace .... to each his own

This is very bumpable thread, So let's wait when Pakistan is on 5th on ICC ranking, which can easily happen as how close the ranking is for T20, then love to hear from great supporters of these statements.

And Pakistan players may not play IPL for next 10 years so ... totally expecting Pakistan to be on top for next 10 years right?

Pakistan were on TOP of the T20 rankings BEFORE the West Indies T20 series this week! What point are you making? West Indies are minnows? They have won the World T20 more times than any team. New Zealand and SL are also T20 minnows?

Go back and do your homework, because we all know the only way India gets to the top of any rankings is by battering one team at home.

People cannot accept the fact that IPL is not the Creme de la Creme of T20 but a circus, and neither is money the motivation for success - Pakistan has proved this with the rankings, and the CT17 win, and will continue to do so Inshallah.

Yes pakistan was no1 team, because they were so scared of playing top teams that they have played most 80% of those series against minnows and continue to do so, the example is just the previous series.

Aswering your second point, the last two t20 series we played out of our home, we won them, here goes your lie. You see, afterall we aren't affraid of going out and winning not only t20s but also odis, because we don't have minnow mentality like some countries.

Asnswering your third point.
Once again i will advice you to ask your puny team to not bundle out to sub 100 score when you face india next, to atleast put up a fight, even though i knkw you are minnows and only capable of performing against your fellow minnows

I am not surprised that you and your country men continue to bring that one win. Afterall you have been humilated by india in the last 10 years so much that your country was so desperate for even a single win that your country lost all the hope for a win.

6-0
And
7-1
Surely tells us the story of this generation of pakistanis for even a single win against india.

But 11-0 the streak is still on and will continue to haunt not onky the presebt but also the future generation of pakistanis.

Yes pakistan was no1 team, because they were so scared of playing top teams that they have played most 80% of those series against minnows and continue to do so, the example is just the previous series.

Aswering your second point, the last two t20 series we played out of our home, we won them, here goes your lie. You see, afterall we aren't affraid of going out and winning not only t20s but also odis, because we don't have minnow mentality like some countries.

Asnswering your third point.
Once again i will advice you to ask your puny team to not bundle out to sub 100 score when you face india next, to atleast put up a fight, even though i knkw you are minnows and only capable of performing against your fellow minnows

I am not surprised that you and your country men continue to bring that one win. Afterall you have been humilated by india in the last 10 years so much that your country was so desperate for even a single win that your country lost all the hope for a win.

6-0
And
7-1
Surely tells us the story of this generation of pakistanis for even a single win against india.

But 11-0 the streak is still on and will continue to haunt not onky the presebt but also the future generation of pakistanis.

Long live the streak.

If you are talking about Pakistanís #1 Test ranking, than they accumulated it with very good series victories under Misbahís tenure. Letís take a look.

1-1 against SA
1-0 in NZ
1-1 against WI
0-1 in SL (LOSS)
1-1 in ZIM
0-3 in SA (LOSS)
1-1 against SL
0-2 in SL (LOSS)
2-0 against AUS
1-1-1 against NZ
1-0 against BD (where AUS and ENG have lost a test in recent years)
2-1 in SL
2-0 against ENG
2-2 in ENG

"Preventive war is like committing suicide for fear of death" ~ Otto Von Bismarck

Yes pakistan was no1 team, because they were so scared of playing top teams that they have played most 80% of those series against minnows and continue to do so, the example is just the previous series.

Aswering your second point, the last two t20 series we played out of our home, we won them, here goes your lie. You see, afterall we aren't affraid of going out and winning not only t20s but also odis, because we don't have minnow mentality like some countries.

Asnswering your third point.
Once again i will advice you to ask your puny team to not bundle out to sub 100 score when you face india next, to atleast put up a fight, even though i knkw you are minnows and only capable of performing against your fellow minnows

I am not surprised that you and your country men continue to bring that one win. Afterall you have been humilated by india in the last 10 years so much that your country was so desperate for even a single win that your country lost all the hope for a win.

6-0
And
7-1
Surely tells us the story of this generation of pakistanis for even a single win against india.

But 11-0 the streak is still on and will continue to haunt not onky the presebt but also the future generation of pakistanis.

Yes pakistan was no1 team, because they were so scared of playing top teams that they have played most 80% of those series against minnows and continue to do so, the example is just the previous series.

Aswering your second point, the last two t20 series we played out of our home, we won them, here goes your lie. You see, afterall we aren't affraid of going out and winning not only t20s but also odis, because we don't have minnow mentality like some countries.

Asnswering your third point.
Once again i will advice you to ask your puny team to not bundle out to sub 100 score when you face india next, to atleast put up a fight, even though i knkw you are minnows and only capable of performing against your fellow minnows

I am not surprised that you and your country men continue to bring that one win. Afterall you have been humilated by india in the last 10 years so much that your country was so desperate for even a single win that your country lost all the hope for a win.

6-0
And
7-1
Surely tells us the story of this generation of pakistanis for even a single win against india.

But 11-0 the streak is still on and will continue to haunt not onky the presebt but also the future generation of pakistanis.

Long live the streak.

What about the 73-52 streaks, how many generation it is going to take India to over come it.

I know what a streak means, If we are talking about in pure sense than the ICC tournaments streak has ended with CT17

There was never a ICC tournament streak, it was a World Cup streak, Pak beat India in a CT long time ago, iirc some of the pak fans claimed a CT streak until India beat Pak. The WC streak ends only when you beat us in an actual WC.

You were agreeing with me all the time! Admit what? You didn't read my post? I suppose the truth eventually comes out. Now what I would like to see is whether Indians will have a go at you for having the same opinion on the IPL as me. Let's see.

You see folks, this is what India has been reduced to, a WC streak record. Outside of this, they dare not speak of Pakistan vs India stats. Next year, they will have to think of something else!

Got to give them something to chew on I suppose.

Awww, chickened out, as usual. You brought a single win after being humiliated by india for 10 years, that too a freaking champions trophy win, didn't you ?

Unlike a minnow team who harp on one win, we are proud of the domination we have given to a freaking whole one generation of pakistanis and several generation of pakistani cricket team and will continue to make sure that when your next generation arrives they also continue to hear and get burden by this streak.

Don't worry even if this streak breaks in the next year, this streak will continue haunt the peesent pakistani generation.

Awww, chickened out, as usual. You brought a single win after being humiliated by india for 10 years, that too a freaking champions trophy win, didn't you ?

Unlike a minnow team who harp on one win, we are proud of the domination we have given to a freaking whole one generation of pakistanis and several generation of pakistani cricket team and will continue to make sure that when your next generation arrives they also continue to hear and get burden by this streak.

Don't worry even if this streak breaks in the next year, this streak will continue haunt the peesent pakistani generation.

Long live the streak.

I love these sort of posters, once you know their Achilles heal, you own them. In this case , IPL.

I also love how he has the audacity to complain how Pakistan harp on about 1 win, when he keeps mentioning the streak which started in the 80s.

Fair and lovely indeed!

How about losing rest of the games? Did you check th3 record fo4 this decade? Did you see we hav3 won a World Cup in this decade. Last time you won WC was 28 yrs ago, before many of the folks here were born.