Democrats have descended on Rush Limbaugh’s comments about Sandra Fluke, the Georgetown law student who testified to the House Democratic Steering and Policy Committee on the Administration’s birth control access rules for religiously affiliated institutions. Limbaugh has spent the past two days alleging that Fluke must be a prostitute if she advocates birth control, mocking her testimony and upping the rhetoric with each passing day.

Democratic groups have countered. The DNC and the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee have demanded a denunciation of Rush for his comments. Other groups are trying to get advertisers to boycott the program. And upping the ante significantly, the President called Sandra Fluke to express his disappointment in the personal attacks:

Fluke was set to go on MSNBC’s Andrea Mitchell Reports when the president rang her on her phone. She took the call while waiting in the green room.

“He encouraged me and supported me and thanked me for speaking out about the concerns of American women,” she told Mitchell, who received permission from the White House to discuss the exchange between Fluke and Obama. “What was really personal for me was that he said to tell my parents that they should be proud. And that meant a lot because Rush Limbaugh questioned whether or not my family would be proud of me. So I just appreciated that very much.” [...]

At the White House press briefing shortly after the news broke, Press Secretary Jay Carney outlined the reasoning behind the president’s decision to call Fluke.

Obama, said Carney, felt that, “the kinds of personal attacks that have been directed her way have been inappropriate.”

This is starting to have at least a small impact with Republicans. The usual suspects in the media have condemned Rush, people like Kathleen Parker. John Boehner’s spokesman had to make a statement that Rush’s comments were “inappropriate,” though he added for false equivalence the idea that “raising money off the situation” is also inappropriate. And other political figures are pouncing.

Prediction: this will have absolutely no effect on Rush’s media empire. In 2006, he mocked Michael J. Fox for having Parkinson’s disease. The criticism did not come close to forcing him off the air, though it did probably help Claire McCaskill win a Senate seat in Missouri. Any Republican who criticizes him now will be on the phone to him apologizing for the criticism and backpedaling within a week. Rush is a more important force in the Republican Party than almost anyone.

But Democrats think they have a wedge issue here to work with. The comments alienate a majority of the electorate. The gender gap on this issue is widening, and conservatives are exposed as wanting to control women’s lives. I would add that Obama was probably at his highest point in public opinion when his main competition was seen as Rush Limbaugh. So this works for everyone.

Rush understands how to both own his comments, muddy the context AND be the victim following the response. He has experience with it.

To have an impact on him Advertisers need to know what he said and he doesn’t back down from what he said. What Rush did today was to muddy the water, especially with his, “Let’s go back to what I really said.” nonsense. This is a strategic game that is used because he has a microphone to “get in the last word.”

Advertisers will respond with “We are re-examining our support” that is a stalling tactic so that later they can say, “Rush clarified. Or Apologized.”

My friend Angelo of @stopbeck fame is now at Media Matters. I think that he will be working the whole twitter side of this.
Given the recent pummeling that Susan G Koman got, following their cutting off funds of Planned Parenthood, a quick solid campaign to convince Advertisers to not Rush taint their brand has a greater chance of success that before.

Dems grandstanding on trivial culture war issues–must be an election year. Never mind that they–along with their issue validator NARAL–were perfectly willing to sacrifice reproductive rights to get Obamacare passed.

Your stupid comment just backs up limphead calling her a slut because that is what the comment means. I know that you know it. I don’t usually make ad hominem comments, but you constantly go beyond any kind of civil dialog, so I feel that the only thing left is to let you know that you have made enough such comments. You’re a troll. Whether you are paid or not is somebody else’s province to determine.

This issue has nothing to do with women being able to use contraceptives. The issue is whether other people should be forced to pay for it. What next ? Are insurance companies going to have to cover Viagra so Grandpa can get a hard-on ?

If I were a US Senator and chaired a committee or subcommittee, I mean me, I’d hold a hearing and call Rush as a witness. Ask him about his embarrassing golf abilities. I’d call Anita Hill and Patricia Williams and ask them if they think Rush is funny, or what if not funny. I’d call a prostitute or several and hope they’d say about Rush, “Not for a thousand, not for a hundred thousand.”

I know that I shouldn’t reply, but I will this time and for the last time. You comment was to show, haha, that he had ‘apologized’ and your sarcasm was directed at those of us who know that his ‘apology’ was no apology at all, but another way to insult her and us. If you didn’t have a body of work here to look at, I would have taken it as sarcasm toward limphead. I usually don’t need a /s to tell that something is snark. Your comments over time have, however, only been snarky toward the majority of posters here. I stand by my comments and I have nothing further to add.

Yes, this is absolutely about preventing women from accessing birth control. But it’s more than that. It’s about preventing women from controlling their bodies more generally. I’ve said this many times, but if you can’t control your body–the vessel of one’s existence–how “free” can you possibly be?

Rush Limbaugh is not stupid. He wants Obama to win. It’s a deliberate strategy to prolong his relevance (and further fatten his checkbook). It’s the people who listen to him every afternoon that are stupid.

Rush was wrong calling her a slut. She’s not. She’s just a parasite looking for something free at somebody else’s expense. That is the mentality of so many people today. Liberals have succeeded beyond their wildest dreams.

mjocaj. Back in September I hit a deer on the road with my automoblie. It was about a 3000 dollar repair job. I paid 100 dollars. Someone else paid for it. What is it about the concept of insurance that you don’t understand?

LOL. I’m really sick of the “boys will be boys” thing. I’ve heard it my whole life. I’m way too old to buy into that crap – if people want to have sex, for whatever reason, it’s not my business, unless it’s rape. The question that is never raised is what would men do if ALL women said “no?”

Yes, this is absolutely about preventing women from accessing birth control

Hardly. Nobody is preventing anybody from getting contraception. Some people just don’t be providers of it. It isn’t a right, and the employer determines how the benefit package is shaped. Don’t like it? Get another job.

How about married women who have children and don’t want any more or can’t afford more? Would you prefer that they get pregnant and handle the problem with abortions? Or maybe a woman has been told by her doctor that she must not have more children because it would endanger her life?

The whole concept of insurance is to provide for unexpected adverse events. The only type of medical insurance anyone “needs” is major medical. The more of this crap that is covered, whether it be Viagra or contraceptives, the more expensive the insurance becomes. If insurance companies wish to provide this coverage, and the insured are willing to pay for it, that’s fine. I’ve been self-employed for 30 years and paying my own premiums that entire time. I’ve also had the ability to select my level of coverage. I’m dreading to see what the cost is going to be when these government mandates are inflicted on the policy holders.

you know shooters response, i’ve stated it 100 times on these shooter threads. She needs to pay for it herself or find a job that has health insurance she likes (or her husband). That’s the answer of life.

One of the things that disturbs me about Limbaugh’s obscenely hateful speech is that the traditional corporate media feels compelled to repeat it ad nauseam. Limbaugh plays the media like a Stradivarius – he knows that a sound byte of his will be repeated daily & hourly thus amplifying his original remarks and reaching an audience in the millions and even heard in the Oval Office. Enough, already. Many of us avoid that ugly hateful man but not our “news” programs.

Voting wasn’t a right for everyone until it was decided to become a right. It’s how rights in our system are born. They’re made, not ordained. If enough citizens want birth control to be a right, it will become a right. School 101.

I have no problem if contraceptives, Viagra, etc. are covered provided both the insurers and insured voluntarily participate. This gives both the means of controlling their costs. The health care law eliminates choice. I thought people like you were in favor of “choice”.

Perhaps I’m a but testy about this subject, but I have a disease that requires drugs for my survival. When people start talking about “moral” objections to drugs…any of them, it scares the living crap out of me. Yeah, I know, find a job that covers my “drugs”. Spare me.

Yes they do. Thousands of wingnuts have stated quite clearly that they want to get rid of birth control. They have been working toward that end (no pun) for years. Barefoot and pregnant is just how they like their womenfolks and they are gaining in their efforts inch by inch. That’s when women and probably a whole lot of men will take to the streets.

Rush’s slut comment was, no doubt, carefully considered and orchestrated, and the rest of the “media” was breathlessly awaiting their cue to jump on it and trumpet it out. Nothing new here to see, frankly, no matter how stupidly & tediously disgusting it is.

The panderer-in-chief jumped on this. Must be campaign season. Of course when is it not campaign season for Obama? If he wants to be reelected he could stop being a puppet for the oligarchs, but that won’t happen. This will distract the masses while he and Bibi confer on the US financed destruction of Iran.

I mostly favor anything that might give financially struggling people a break like this law does. And the fact remains, everyone as a result of this law has the option not to use contraception. I prefer giving the citizens the choice and not religious organizations or employers. This is not a big issue that has become one for unknown reasons.

Join the military, you’ll likely get a free firearm. Go to a gun store and buy a firearm, you’ll likely get one with minimal background checks. An employed person pays into a health insurance plan, they’ll likely get contraception. What are you talking about with this firearm argument?? It makes zero sense. The government is not giving out free contraception with this law. NOthing remotely close to it.

As my wife just said, it’s par for the corpse that a fat white uglisome mofo like him can talk such shite about an intelligent and appealing person like her, but thereyago. No way does this get him fired. I still think ignoring him is the best antidote.

If the Barackstar is now stepping into the “limelight” and purporting to “support the wimmin folk” against the dreaded El Lushbo????? It’s yet another Act in Ye Olde Kabuki Show. This one is entitled:

Wherein the putative CIA trained Manchurian POTUS “Democratic” POTUS gets to *pretend* to be all Democratic-y and appear to be supporting the lil wimminz-folks because now it’ll appear the Obama “won” the 2012 race fair & square bc Barack is “good for wimmin” (despite the fact that he’s not. See the HCR wherein Bart Stupak had HIS way, etc).

Scrambler, I agree with you regarding the “moral” aspect of this. My point revolves around the cost. I hear people constantly complain about the cost of health insurance yet are unwilling to make any adjustments to their coverage to lessen the premium. People who complain about a $10 co-pay for an office visit don’t think twice about dropping $1000 on a flat screen. The same applies to auto insurance. If you want your premium to drop, increase the deductible. If you want better coverage, fine, but be prepared to pay more.

Shooter, do they ever let you out to just drive around and look at people in the poorer neighborhoods? Have you every seen a poor person?

Which part of “free clinic” didn’t you understand. I googled “birth control program” and got this http://www.takecontrolbirthcontrol.com/
Get a grip and rant about something relevant, you’re just embarrassing yourself.

If people want to eat cheeseburgers, then we shouldn’t have to be paying for triple bypasses (this is sarcasm just in case you’re humorless)

Putting provisions on healthcare based on religion is the opposite of freedom.

If the priests are right, then the women have to answer to their God for making a free will choice to put birth control into their bodies. Religion is still free to practice whatever they want and their congregations are still free to make a decision to follow their godly advice or not.

Telling women who use contraceptives to post sex tapes is morally disgusting, dehumanizing, repugnant, sad, disturbing, and it makes my heart ache that someone would say this to almost all the women in the country. What is worse is to defend what RL said. Who cares what he is talking about, he just asked women to post sex tapes. Your mothers, daughters, sisters, wives, cousins, friends and family. If your heart doesn’t hurt, you need to reexamine what is important in life. It’s community, people and support. Seeing half the people in your community downtrodden and not seeing it means you’re asleep. Imagine a boss saying, hey I pay for your birth control, I should get something out of it..post a sex tape. This is wrong on so many levels.

No way does this get him fired. I still think ignoring him is the best antidote.

Yes, and mostly yes. If someone can get a credible boycott ag Rush, it *could* have an impact, as it did with Glenn Beck. I would certainly support such a boycott.

But as I stated previously, Rush’s hate speech is highly orchestrated, highly approved by the PTB, and highly compensated by the 1% who use Rush to be one of their cudgels. To be accurate, Rush is *highly successful* at rallying a certain swath of the 99% to be VERY distracted by their ginned up *hatred* of other segments of the 99%.

Highly *effective* in keeping their eyes away from who’s really doing them wrong & ripping them off. Here’s a clue: it’s not poor people & minorities who are “ruining” the country for overly entitled, mostly older, incredibly cranky folks (who are mostly, but not all, male).

The use of the term slut is a total dog whistle to a bunch of grumpy old white men who quite simply can’t get it up & can’t get laid any more. Sore losers, in other words.

BC is expensive on the open market. Even if it is available next door (which brings different problems, like being the neighborhood slut to the proprietor), if it’s not covered by medical insurance it isn’t accessible to lots and lots of women.

If you can’t control your body and your fertility, you are not free. Period.

Hey, what’s with the imperative? Join the military if you want a firearm you don’t have to pay directly for. I think police have to pay for their sidearms, or have to pay if they want something other than standard issue. But you’re being silly and dogmatic if you pretend that it’s impossible for a free society to ever provide free firearms to its citizens who are mature enough to use them.

The part about this that baffles me is that according to the Catholic Bishops, abortion is the ultimate evil on this planet. Yet they want to punish women who want to do everything in their power to avoid abortions. I just don’t get it.

@ holeybuybull. I agree with 75% of the content of the FDL site. How does that make me a disciple of Breitbart ? I guess if anyone isn’t 100% on board that makes them an idiot or a scumbag. Why is it “progressives” are so intolerant.

Oh and if birth control meant I had sex, I’d take two of the pills a day. Calling women sluts is just a way to take their empowerment away. Women still are the choosier gender. So until the boys start acting like real men and not whiny children like fat baby Rush Limbaugh, they can still go f themselves.

I don’t think Progressives are intolerant at all.
We fight fiercely for our beliefs because there’s no one else to fight for us. Your comments are always welcome but we’re not being intolerant when we counter them. That’s what a discussion, civil I hope, is all about.

You are correct that the corporate controlled MSM has degenerated to the point where they’re only products are distraction and misinformation. Witness their out of context reporting on the Congressional testimony in.re. Iran’s non-existent nuclear weapons program. Which explains why 70% of the those polled think Iran already has nukes.

Thousands of wingnuts have stated quite clearly that they want to get rid of birth control. They have been working toward that end (no pun) for years. Barefoot and pregnant is just how they like their womenfolks and they are gaining in their efforts inch by inch.

Oh really? What have you got to back up that claim?

It may not be true for you, but it is true for anyone and everyone who voted for Rick Santorum after he expressed this.

Which explains why 70% of the those polled think Iran already has nukes.

Exactly! The “mainstream media” has now “done a good job”… of propogandizing the gullible populace into believing a pack of lying bullshit… same as how Saddam Hussein had Weapons of Mass Destruction.

Nothing new to see here, methinks. And after Team USA dutifully “goes to war” in order to set “free” the Iranians and introduce them to “democracy,” the same 27% of Team USA who’ll argue TODAY (right now) that Saddam’s WMD are really really there (we just can’t see them), why that 27% will argue that Iran really really DID have nukes. Yessir, they DO… we just can’t see ‘em.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

El Lusbo’s just doing his jawb… distracting the rubes right, left and center…

Their fear is of change and they just haven’t figured out a way to get back to 1940. Of course, they never will because time just keeps moving on and you can’t stop it. Part of it may be that they’re jealous since they didn’t have all that fun when they were young.

Can someone explain this to me, but I am baffled why this is being called “free contraceptives”. I do not understand how paying into an insurance pool is getting something for “free”. But that is being played to the hilt and even written in articles by Dayen et al on this site and many others. Is it me that is not understanding the concept of insurance?

Paying for El Lushbo’s *obvious skills* (and I grant: Limbaugh IS skillful at what he does) is chump change for the 1%. El Lushbo is just a highly compensated whore, or should I say: SLUT??!! What else is new?

It would be laughable if it wasn’t potentially and actually so harmful. How stupid, cruel, cheap and fearful does someone have to be to nickle and dime a woman into an unwanted pregnancy and all its terrible implications?

Many years ago Rush was broadcasting from Sacramento where my son lived. He would tell me about the things that “this guy named Rush” would say and we would laugh. Never would have thought that hate would move him up the ladder and pay so well.

not only is it NOT getting something for free, providing contraceptives saves the buyers of insurance money over all since birth and the issues caused is far more expensive then birth control when you consider over all costs all around

it’s very intriguing to me, people who claim their religious faith wants to make abortion illegal insist on making birth control harder to get, therfore of course having even more unwanted pregnancies and increasing both legal and illegal abortions

She was certainly right about that. And what makes me smile is that Reagan would have thought that all the wingnuts were far beneath him and his “class.” The wingers are being played and they haven’t a clue.

Another question I have is that do Rush and these people not know that a woman can have sex 1 time in 15 years and can actually get pregnant from that one time? I’m trying to conceive what could have prompted his latest blather, but I just can’t do it. What is it about humans that slips their grasp?

even reagan would call these guys crazies, if he or nixon were to run today, not only would they be forced to declare themselves democrats but the democrats have moved so far to the right, reagan and nixon might be to far to the left for even today’s democrats

interesting, anyone who has a majority opinion about government right now and expresses it is considered “far left” and those the “pundits” call “centrist” are so far to the right of main street the vernacular is absolutely counter intuitive

It reminds me of the trolls. They have been brought up to hate and fear liberals and they just respond reflexively. I’m not sure if they realize they are acting against their own self interest or they are just too brainwashed to care….

All true. And after listening to Fluke, I changed my mind about ignoring LimpTwig. I feel incensed for her; her very straightforward decency reached me in the same way civil rights protestors sometimes used to: we’re not going away.

His comment is too insulting to let pass. Besides, this is such a loser for the Republicans.

I’m sorry for Ms Fluke, but respectfully I disagree with your take vis Obama & his alleged “doing the right thing.”

It’s just campaign season, and this Kabuki Show has completely achieved several goals:

1. Distracting the majority of the populace that Team USA is ginning up a fake, but very expensive, WAR, Inc on Iran.
2. Making believe that Obama is a putative “Democrat”
3. Getting most of the populace in a titter-tatter over something a fat white SLUT said.

For the same reason Obama called Fluke; all of it, the hearing, too, is political theater, a time when everyone is paying attention to what those in power over us are actually about.

I’d hazard a guess that there are people out there who wouldn’t have voted for Santorum had they known his extreme views on abortion extended to birth control, too.

This hearing was under Issa’s instigation, direction and control. Everything that results from it, particularly what the spiritual head of the Republican party has to contribute about it, needs to be linked to Issa.

Ok. Got that. I do see what you’re saying, and I agree. A LOT links back to Issa. Issa is part of the 1%. Sadly, he’s my “representative” (not) in Congress. This KNOWN CROOK is seriously only out for whatever money he can grub for his greedy grubby self.

My take?

The RC Church is one of the older “corporations” if you will and has a long, storied history of ripping off the 99% for the enhancement, enjoyment and enrichment of the 1%.

Seems to me that all of this birth control folderol is all of a piece. It *appears* to come out of nowhere, but all of a sudden there’s all these insidious & very very dubious “Spanish Inquisition” style “panels” comprised of rich white men disposed to discuss vaginas and wombs and what can or cannot be “done” with them… either by women OR by men.

Go figure.

This nation is fucked up. Easy distraction?? Get known pederasts in the RC Church to rant & tirade about birth control. Then get Bain Capital’s pigboy lard butt to bellow that some young woman is a SLUT!!! Which is just the 21st C version of: “She’s a WITCH! Burn her!”

Then fan the flames of “outrage” from the right, left & center… all reliably DISTRACTED from WAR Inc with Iran.

Just my take.

I feel for Ms Fluke, but this is all Kabuki Show.

Yet and still, women need to get up, stand up, stand up for their rights, bc these fuckers’ll take away any rights that they see they can take away. Make no mistake. These shits are playing very hard ball, indeed, and the ultimate goal is total oppression & suppression.

About five years ago I read about this nut case preacher who was preaching about women tempting men into sin. He said men should beware of women. Gave me a good laugh but can you imagine in the 21st century anyone saying a thing like that?

There is not much difference between the Taliban and certain other fundamental sects of other religions, such as Christianity, Mormonism and Judiaism.

The demonizing of women, esp in re to their alleged sinful evil “temptress” role in re to men, has been ongoing for eons. It’s just about power, domination and control, at the end of the day, and as well, about who gets the money, honey.

I’ll make one last attempt to “ejicate you”. Forcing others to pay a premium for coverage they do not want, nor will use, subsidizes those that do use the service. So yes, some of the value of the contraceptives received is free.

Many men get to “enjoy” their orgasms being “subsidized” by getting prescriptions for Viagra & Cialis through their health care insurance. One wonders if they are sluts who are parasites, or does that terminology only apply to women??

Its fun listening to Rush lately,hes trying so hard to find a wedge issue like flag burning or Obama funding attacks on christens in africa but nobody is buying his bullshit anymore,what a pathetic man LOL.

I admit I don’t know the criteria but I would think if a woman has a need for contraceptives to treat a medical condition these would be covered the same as any other prescription. My family’s policy has, by choice, no prescription coverage. It is cheaper to pay for any prescriptions directly than pay the additional premium.

Fat blubber butted slobs like Newt AND Rush (ick ugh) will *always* be able to attract women (or men if they’re gay) because they are RICH.

They don’t even need to be able to get it up whether with Viagra or not. Remember Anna Nicole Smith and that old RICH guy she hooked up with. Doubtful that they had much sexytime, but hey! He was rich.

I don’t remember using the term “parasitic slut”. If I did, I apologize. I did use the word “parasite” which I do believe applies to Ms. Fluke. She’s getting a free ride through law school (via a public interest scholarship, whatever that is) and I suspect most of her personal expenses, including her health care insurance, are financed by Mommy and Daddy. I have a nephew like that.

Parsing out & dancing on a head of a pin to determine what each & every overly-entitled, but incredibly whiney, American citizen *believes* from the bottom of their black hearts what should and, more importantly, should NOT be covered by health care insurance is a GREAT EXAMPLE of why we need a Public Option.

It’s just stupidly silly to call the waaaaaahmbulance every time YOU think that *something* just shouldn’t be covered by some insurance policy. It’s tedious & pathetic, really.

Insurance is cheaper when the women in the pool have access to free contraception. Annual pregnancies cost money, as do the dependents they produce. So the issue is actually whether the rest of us can be forced to pay for religious fanaticism. That one is actually expensive.

Stop making sense. Some *men* just want to dominate and control women. That’s all.

You’re talking about how it’s more expensive for insurance to cover pregancies, which is correct. But hey! You’re spoiling all these chauvanists FUN in calling women SLUTS!!!

Like: stop raining on their mysogynistic parade, while also pointing out how much more inexpensive it is to cover birth control than pregnancies…. (not to mention kids, etc).

Women are parasitic SLUTS who should STFU, stop enjoying ANY sex ever, and put aspirin between their legs if they don’t want a bun in the oven. Otherwise, there is the well-known rhythym method, which is famous for how it doesn’t work, but the dog only knows some chauvanistic ersatz libertarian will be *spared* the outrage of having to have HIS insurance premium go towards BC coverage.

All the women are asking for is that the religious organization which employs them to choose an insurance company that covers birth control. I don’t think anyone thinks for a moment that they would get it without any cost to them when they pay into the insurance.

It used to be that birth related services were also optional items in insurance policies. If that were still the case only those who chose this service would suffer the additional cost, through their premium, as it should be. Generally, having dependents added to a policy increases the premium which would therefore be self-financing. Look, I don’t have a problem with any of this stuff being covered. I’m an atheist and have no religious objections to any of it. If people want to add their pets to their health insurance policy I have no problem with that. Just don’t force other people to have the same coverage with the same premium. A cafeteria style system is most fair and conducive to freedom.

:) This issue is going to be around as long as the Republicans can’t think of anything else to talk about because they really don’t have a plan for any of our problems. So they create a problem that makes them feel all manly and powerful. Asshats.

First of all I don’t think any private organization/individual should be forced to pay for someone else’s health insurance simply because they employ them, anymore than they should be forced to pay for their cable TV subscription. I’m a libertarian not a progressive. Regardless, if the employer is paying for the insurance I don’t see how the insured is paying for any of it. Wasn’t that the whole point of the Health Care Reform law, to force employers to cover their employees. If the employee is paying for part of it, he/she should be able to determine the coverage. That works both ways though. If the coverage is optional and affects the premium I have no problem with contraceptives or Viagra being covered.

Yeah, exactly: like all the other “nonsense” printed in red in the KJV. But you know what RED means, don’t you, comrade???

We all know that hippy Jebus was a big fat commie bastard! Tossing out the money-changers from the Temple???? Commie! Don’t read THOSE red words, my friend: therein lies madness & dragons…. and a flat earth.

You have a higher opinion of homo sapiens than I do. Generally, when people say they can’t afford something they usually mean they would rather spend their money on something else. If you’re willing to assist someone whose situation you are unfamiliar with I commend you for that.

I don’t think any private organization/individual should be forced to pay for someone else’s health insurance simply because they employ them

Again, we agree. It is way too expensive and inefficient for businesses to have the burden of supplying health insurance for their employees. It would be much cheaper and cover everyone if the government would facilitate the healthcare system. We’d pay a whole lot less and get a whole lot more.

I agree. IMO this issue doesn’t HAVE two sides. ON the one side you have, ‘This ain’t none of your friggin’ bidness.” ON the “OTHER side you have a bunch of morons. Which, of course, doesn’t actuaLLY CONSTITUTE A “SIDE”.

It’s also the tedium of people who want to whine & cry bc they don’t “feel like paying for something that I don’t use.”

Like: I’m so fortunate that I don’t have cancer or any number of other issues, but my health care premiums (disclaimer: I am in a group plan, which means I get a “good price” – choke choke – for my premium, but *I* pay for my health care ins, my employer does NOT). Thankfully I’m very very healthy, and I don’t have to see the Dr very much or have hardly any health care costs.

Yet my premiums – even for a so-called “good” plan – are very high.

Why?

Well partly to cover the costs of all the other people in the plan experiencing a boatload of issues from using birth control (fer the dog’s sake) to some horrendous catastrophic & life-threatening disease or accident.

I guess I could sit around whining & crying about how *I* am paying for some parasite’s cancer treatments because *I* am sure not getting cancer expensive cancer treatments & drugs (thank the dog). But the point of insurance is that the money is pooled, and then we use it when/IF we need it.

Hey: I’ve been paying expensive auto insurance for DECADES and I have never had to USE it.

Get a life.

The MAIN reason why we pay such high premium fees is because the fricking 1% shitheads in BigIns, BigHospital, BigPharma, etc have RIGGED the system to ensure that the 1% at the top SKIM the big buck$$$ off the top.

We shouldn’t really even HAVE TO HAVE Insurance AT ALL. It’s a total RIP OFF. But guess what???? When dreaded liberals talked about a public option all the *libertarians* out there went GALT and ixnayed that idea.

And so here we are: ALL OF US FOOLS paying fo the rich fat cats to get richer and fatter off of our health care premiums.

And what else happens? We ALL dance on the head of a pin when El Lushbo calls some poor woman a SLUT. It’s Kabuki Time!

No offense intended to you. I was responding to newcarbuy who implied that people who disagree with his views are selfish. Where am I wrong though ? Your belief in charity tells me you don’t think people should be responsible for their own situation in life.

Some day that Ivory tower you live in is going to collapse and it won’t be pretty. Of course, people are responsible for MUCH of their lives but if there are no jobs where do you find one?I read an article the other day about a family where 2 young brothers took turns eating dinner – one got to eat on Monday and other one Tuesday and so forth. I would do anything I had to do to see that those children had food. It’s damn hard to get a job if you’re 6 or 7 years old.

I do kind of agree with the second part of your post. Life is unfair and some people are born into/luck into good fortune. I just think modern liberalism encourages an entitlement mentality and many, many people game the system. I put bailed out bankers and executives of failed corporations at the top of the list.

Ivory Tower ? You’ve got me pegged totally wrong. I supported myself and paid by own way through college. My parents would have, as they did my two brothers, but I refused because I wanted to succeed on my own. I started my own business when I was 22 and have been at it since. I financed the business with money I earned working at menial, minimum wage jobs. I haven’t asked or accepted anything from anybody though there have been a lot of ups and downs. That is why I have such little sympathy for people like Ms. Fluke.

Funny & interesting. My own life story is very similar to yours, and yet I somehow have a lot of sympathy for Ms. Fluke and don’t find her parasitic at all. The major difference between you & me, is that my parents couldn’t afford to send my sibs & me to college. I worked my way through on my own bc I had to.

That said, I don’t *resent* others who have “made it” by other means, such as grants and scholarships, as you appear to.

I’m sure you worked hard and I applaud that but I suspect there’s a little good old fashioned LUCK in there, too. Some don’t have any good luck at all and I would appreciate an answer to my question – would you help homeless vets?
They were getting shot at while you started your business.

They fought THEIR wars for their own reasons. They did not do it for my family’s benefit or at my request. Most people in the military today either do it for career reasons or because they have Rambo fantasies. Those who truly believe they are protecting the freedom of Americans by killing Muslims in their own countries have pathetically succumbed to brainwashing.

Isn’t that part of the whole thing special? Men run around bragging about their sexual prowess and other men high five him but Heaven forfend a woman enjoy her sexuality. The whole entire double standard sickens me.

No one succeeds or fails on their own. You were fortunate that someone gave you a chance and hired you so that you could obtain the means to pay for college(and yes I realize that business has a level of self interest when they hire; I also realize that timing could have given someone else that opportunity rather than you) Furthermore, you were fortunate that you didn’t get struck down by disease during the process. There are a million different things that could have happened to you on the way to being the person you are.

People like you concern me far more than people like Ms. Fluke. You seem to have this sense of superiority because you were FORTUNATE , this inability to understand that others may not be as fortunate, and the selfishness to look upon those circumstances and not care.

Yeah I was. My oldest brother got a college deferment and missed the worst of it. He served in the navy after and missed the fighting. I do feel sympathy for the people who were conscripted at gun point and sent to Vietnam. I know the options weren’t easy. I remember Walter Cronkite giving out the previous week’s death count every Thursday night on the evening news. I also have sympathy for people who were forced into the Iraqi military by Saddam Hussein. I just don’t see why I should have more concern for the former group simply because I was born in a geographic area over which the same government claims jurisdiction.

The reason we are having this discussion is during his crowning achievement(health care reform)he used women’s autonomy as a bargaining chip. Of course, the GOP would think reproductive choice was a compromiseable issue. He made it one during the whole entire abortion debate.

I don’t consider myself fortunate. I worked my ass off and failed many times but I kept going. You are right about the disease thing though, but, there are very, very few people in this country who owe their misfortune to disease or some physical/mental handicap. Ms. Fluke appears to be a spoiled child of the suburbs who thinks she is owed. It is her type I despise.

I’m going to chime in here just to balance some of the early nonsense. Insurance is to spread the costs over time. Many of us will never ‘use’ our auto insurance or our home insurance or an amount of health insurance commensurate with what we’ve paid in over time. I am willing to pay so that so asshole can have his nose fixed after a bar fight, and so some elderly dude (who isn’t listening while God tells him “It’s time to hang in up/put it away” – when his dick goes limp, for hernias and prostate exams and such…..just don’t fuck with my needs when I need them.

And, yes, I am old enough to remember when not only was contraception not paid for (or even much available) but also when pregnancy care was not paid for. It was, after all, a choice.

Aaaaannnd we have yet another big fat COP OUT from our resident libertarian. Clearly younger than draft age during the Viet Nam war era. Easy to say: oh “they had other options,” *I* didn’t ask them to fight. Easy to say, not so easy in practice.

Typical of someone who’s selfish and self-centered and doesn’t want to share. Gotta say it. That’s how I see most libertarians. Always have the slick answer for why it’s “their way or the highway.” phooey.

As I stated there are a million different things that can and do happen to smart and hardworking individuals on a daily basis that have nothing to do with making good or bad choices.

Today my area is being struck by tornados. Some people who may have worked their whole lives may be forced to start over again. Using your logic, it isn’t misfortune that befell them as much as some sort of shortcoming. If only they had done something differently they wouldn’t have lost everything.

Exactly. This isn’t exactly rocket science here. But like I said previously, libertarians want to dance on the head of a pin picking & choosing what they *feel like* paying for. And not for anything else cuz heaven forfend that some “parasite” might take advantage of THEM.

It’s all about meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

And all of ‘em worked their butts off, never had a break cut for them, never had any help, just nifty zifty pulled themselves up by their bootstraps, so whyohwhy should they have to give *anyone* a break???

A LOT of people get wiped out by accidents or illnesses, despite: a) working hard all their lives, b) being frugal and saving a LOT of money, c) having what they think is “good” health insurance. Depending on their circumstances, they may end up losing their job and then never having access to health insurance again.

Yet I’m supposed to view such individuals as lazy miscreants with an “entitlement syndrome” who’s out to “game the system” with a vengence expecting a “free hand out” for “nothing.”

This kind of thing – losing it all due to accident or illness – happens more commonly these days. It scares the bejesus out of me, and I fall into the categories I listed above… plus I work *really hard* at maintaining good health.

But everything I’ve earned and saved could be wiped out (hopefully not) in an instant. But libertarians would stand on the sidelines condescendingly telling me that I simply didn’t “work hard enough,” and that the “failure” is all my own doing… and furthermore I should STFU, eat shit and die.

To say: I wasn’t “fortunate,” it’s ONLY because I worked hard is fatuous in the extreme. Anyone who enjoys good health is extremely FORTUNATE, no matter what.

I get really tired of smug self-congratulatory self-involved selfish individuals whose only concern is for themselves.

The idea that anyone is self sufficient is the most retarded position ever. For the first decade of life(or more often 2 decades) a person is pretty much reliant on their parents. They are at the whim of the choices those parents make. In addition they are at the whim of the universe. Get a disease. Have your household struck down by a storm. Have a business that you work for close up shop through no fault of your own. All of these things are random events that can and do happen. They aren’t personal failings. They are just random events. The purpose of a social safety net is to minimize the impact of random events.

And YES pregnancy is a fairly random event. Someone can have sex once and get pregnant; others can try for years and not have a child even though they want one. Just because we understand the mechanics behind what causes something does not negate the fact that its occurences are random.

True conservatives are people who want to get what they earn and earn what they get. They expect others to do the same. That is why they are not liberals.

if that’s your idea of a “true conservative” then conservatives are liberals

the CONSERVATIVES do all they can getting the working class paying their bills, the CONSERVATIVES shed expenses at EVERY waking opportunity, paying as little as possible for their labor needs and then expecting society to foot the bill, they DON’T want to pay a living wage, they DON’T want to pay the same as everyone else for the ,services and goods they use

for instance, on this very thread you see the CONSERVATIVES complaining that they DON’T want people collecting on a service PAID for through insurance

the mind of the current conservative is as follows;

“let’s get everyone else paying our bills, let’s pay as low wage as possible, let’s get in everyone else’s lives and make believe we DON’T like government when in fact we LOVE government getting in the labor classes lives, we just don’t want them telling us rich guys we have to pay our bills”

THAT’S the mind of conservativism today so I have no clue what conservatives you are talking about when you say “true conservative”

‘Obama, said Carney, felt that, “the kinds of personal attacks that have been directed her way have been inappropriate.”’

Whoa, that’s telling ‘em, Big O!

“Inappropriate” is when you wear brown shoes with a black suit. The proper words for what Limbaugh said are “vile,” “despicable,” “odious,” “loathsome,” “cowardly,” “sub-human,”. . . I could go on but I loaned my Thesaurus to my roommate.

It’s amazing how much I don’t care about any of this shit AT ALL, any more.

Yes, Limbaugh is despicable and deserves to be [censored] thoroughly, if possible on television for the entertainment of the masses. But Obama (and many others) are more despicable and deserve to be [censored] longer, harder, and first. Until the true scum are dealt with, who really cares about Fat Sack? He’s nothing more than a distraction, as OnItGoes and others have noted.

Note: I used [censored] instead of any number of gruesome and graphic verbs because a) I’m lazy, and b) expressly stating that I wish Obama would be subject to some of those gruesome and graphic verbs would probably get me and Lady Jane in trouble. (Please don’t hurt us, General Petraeus! We’ll be good li’l slaves, honest!) Since, as far as I know, unlike me, Jane will not be committing suicide before year-end, there’s no reason to mess things up for her.

There IS a difference. Both parties are wholly owned subsidiaries of the corporate powers, but within the confines of corporate-led media debate social issues like this are debated. . . and the Dems are more progressive. That’s enough for liberal America, which doesn’t care if Obama bombs brown people as long as they can have their ipads and their gay friends can marry. Yes, the system is corrupt, but that little bit of play that we’re allowed is what affords the illusion of democracy. And while I won’t ever again go out of my way to help the Dems as a party, hurting the Republicans is often not a bad idea. All best.