What do you all think of Satanism in relation to the armed services? We are based primaraly around the ideals of anti-herd mentality and told to question everything. But any form of military service requires you to think, dress, and act like everyone else. To question nothing and to follow orders, is something that is completely unsatanic. But at the same time when our country needs us for something shouldn't we be responcible and help? Yet it had been said that only a fool dies for an ideal. I have been thinking about and pondering this for quite sometime and I would like to see if I could get any sort of feedback so anyone's contribution would be greatly appreciated.Hail Satan!DatheR

Patriotism is herd mentality at a high pitch. As General George Patton put it, "Make the other poor sonuvabitch die for his country!"

Armed Forces do not fight for their country, Mom, apple pie or God. They fight for and die for their buddies.

The comradery which comes from battle cannot be found anywhere else. To the extent we are social creatures, the attraction of the small unit of fellow soldiers will be strong.

The (often) mindless disciplines of order and rank in peacetime situations is the price to pay to enter combat. When on leave or out of the war zone otherwise, it can actually be comforting to have a place for everything and everything in its place even if the placement is stupid.

I would not recommend grunt infantry for anyone. Cannon fodder are the words which come to mind.

It is wiser, in my opinion, if you are going into the military and intend to enter combat to get the highest training and most elite status you can find for several reasons.

(1) You will be considered more valuable and less expendable (not cannon fodder).

(2) You will enter combat with a greater likelihood of coming back out again.

(3) The more elite your unit, the less stupid people tend to be in it and commanding it.

If you are going into the military for any reason other than combat, you really should think that through. All of the negatives mentioned in the opening post of this thread will work against you.

Army/Navy/Air Force/Marine Corps should not, in my opinion, be soley a means to attain a college education or job training. There are cheaper overall ways to do that without enslaving yourself to a system which will own you, body and soul.

The military is about fighting and killing. Keep that clearly in mind and you will know whether you belong there or not.

It is a challenge for someone who declares himself a Satanist openly within the military. It's much like prison, you must camoflage yourself to appear as 'just one of the others'. Yes the military is conformist, but it also teaches you to think and react quickly in a given situation.

There is a time for individuality, and there is a time for working as a team. Working as a team does not preclude individuality. Basic Training is designed to break you of your herd mentality self, and replace it with that of a person who will kill without blinking. It in fact brings out some very basic and very carnal emotions within a person. The military is also a meritocracy, you are promoted based primarily upon your abilities and performace, and less upon tenure.

Quote:But any form of military service requires you to think, dress, and act like everyone else.

But it's for a reason. People in the world think and dress and act like everyone else, not because of some utilitarian concept, but because they do it out of stupidity. A soldier will survive longer in battle if he trains and works as a team, or pack of hunters, instead of just a 'group of people with guns". Yes there are some things that one subjects oneself to that could be considered 'un-Satanic' but then again that is hardly pragmatic now is it?

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"Many people would sooner die than think - in fact, they do so." ~ Bertrand Russell

"“Let the future tell the truth, and evaluate each one according to his work and accomplishments. The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine.” ~ Nikola Tesla

What I am about to write has basically already been stated by Magister Nemo and Felstorm. I just have to have my piece of the pie.

Here are some reasons I joined.

1. I was young and confused.
2. I disliked the stupidity of the civilian society.
3. I was looking for my "baptism of fire", which I achieved and discovered it wasn't what I expected.
4. I’ve always loved tanks. So I became a tanker.

Yes, the military conditions you, not to just follow orders but to also survive combat. I did not like the majority of arrogance I meet in the military but they definitely know how to conduct warfare. I know first hand what an well trained tank crew can do and ( I'm sure Felstorm is familiar with it) how quickly it kills and how much it can destroy (damn, it‘s a beautiful machine).

There are jobs in the military that are desk jobs and paper pushers. A lot of people join to get a "tough guy" image and to gain bragging rights. But what they do all day (and fail to inform others) is sit behind a desk and file reports, stock supplies, etc....

There are some non-combat jobs in the military that do see action because they are attached to a combat unit and so must take up arms. We had a cook with us and we stuck him on a Hummvee with a 240. He did a pretty good job at keeping cool and helping out.

I've seen it when front line troops are low and spread thin they'll bring up rear echelon units to do some police duties or actual combat action. It's pretty funny to see their faces. They seem confused and wish they were back in their air-conditioned offices.

I agree with Magister Nemo. If you don’t want to fight in combat than don’t join the military. If you’re looking for a quick way of making cash, gaining experience, or getting funds for future education, don’t waste your time. There are plenty of things you can do to achieve such things in the civilian sector. Is it worth it to be sent to 130-degree heat in the middle of desert to fight some country you could care less about? No it’s not. The military is a quick but painful way of gaining a career.

I am not saying what they teach does not improve you. There are just other alternatives.

_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

Quote: I know first hand what an well trained tank crew can do and ( I'm sure Felstorm is familiar with it) how quickly it kills and how much it can destroy (damn, it‘s a beautiful machine).

You better believe it. Some of the best times of my life were spent encased within 24 inches of DU. I wanted to take my tank home with me but they wouldn't let me. Probably a good thing because I would have put that 120mm to use many many many times.

Quote:A lot of people join to get a "tough guy" image and to gain bragging rights. But what they do all day (and fail to inform others) is sit behind a desk and file reports, stock supplies, etc....

Non-com MOS find themselves rucking with the Cav, and it hits them like a ton of bricks, that "Good Guy Badge" won't stop bullets. Funny to watch em, they lock up and their eyes look like two peas on a dinner plate. Next thing you know they are laying on the ground bleeding from under their kevlar, gasping with a sucking chest wound.

_________________________
"Many people would sooner die than think - in fact, they do so." ~ Bertrand Russell

"“Let the future tell the truth, and evaluate each one according to his work and accomplishments. The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine.” ~ Nikola Tesla

I'm in a so-called "Special" unit and it's not all that. We actualy see more bullshit then most other grunt battalions. Grunts are not cannon fodder (or SAW dust) as there is no such thing anymore. Grunts don't charge the lines like nam or the civil war. Everything is high speed low drag. I am an ATL and have never been damaged in any ambush. I've been with this unit, this "elite status" unit and have attended the same amount of schools or less then some of my grunt buddies. I actualy did more at my POG unit.

As far as the greater likelihood of coming out, have you thought about the greater likelihood of going in?

The more elite your unit the more stuck up people will be in it. (Less stupid is right though)

The fact is there are a lot of pussies in the military and a lot of real killers in BK, QB, or LA. If that's anybodies goal...I personaly have grown out of that.

I agree with everything else Nemo said especially about the slave mentality. Other people in my unit have assumptions about me being a "devil-worshipper" because of my extensive library of books most of them can't read. (Starting at the title) No body messes with me personaly about that, but let me not tuck my t-shirt in or get a hair cut sunday and see what kind of ass-chewing I get. (Marines only)

Etc. Etc. the point is DON'T DO IT!!!Unless you have a high tolerance to bullshit. Like a lot of my head soap friends and then...hey.

Action and adventure (probably more than you want four years from now), travel (where they want to send you), colege (if your not deployed) and much more. Sign your soul over today for the next 8 years!

The manner in which it is conducted may change, but in every conventional war, there must be a "charge". I've watched numerous house clearings and seizings of property as they were happening and they all looked like charges to me.

The more elite your unit the more stuck up people will be in it. (Less stupid is right though)

Navy SEALS, Delta Force, and Special Forces (Green Berets) I have known were anything but "stuck up", and it doesn't get anymore elite than them. As a matter of fact, they are some of the coolest guys I've ever known. Join the Intelligence side of the house, now there you will find arrogance. But that's the nature of that beast, and I have come to understand that, having come from being a team playing "grunt". But one important lesson I've learned from working with stuck up people...they have a reputation to uphold, and that motivates them. They can't afford to be subpar or lazy.

The fact is there are a lot of pussies in the military and a lot of real killers in BK, QB, or LA.

Very true (about the pussies), but murderers are hardly "real" killers. For us killing is the means to an end.

Other people in my unit have assumptions about me being a "devil-worshipper" because of my extensive library of books most of them can't read. (Starting at the title)

I either hide the fact or use it to my advantage. Believe me, I feel your pain.

No body messes with me personaly about that, but let me not tuck my t-shirt in or get a hair cut sunday and see what kind of ass-chewing I get. (Marines only)

Yeah, the rest of us get to have long hair and goatees!

Etc. Etc. the point is DON'T DO IT!!! Unless you have a high tolerance to bullshit. Like a lot of my head soap friends and then...hey.

Quote:Armed Forces do not fight for their country, Mom, apple pie or God. They fight for and die for their buddies.

Actually, the only disagreement I have on that quote is this: the enlisted men and women and officers of the US Armed Forces may fight and die for their buddies when they are in actual combat (or, even while on liberty while off-base as I've experienced on at least one occasion), but the real reason that anyone is out there is because you're fighting for the United States financial interests. That was something we were taught in Basic Training and is one of the things I've never forgotten. Any time that we're about to go to a war with a nation, look up that country's natural resources. They usually have something that we want to get our hands on.

There are better ways to get a college education with all the different forms of tuition assistance available to you. There are also better jobs under much better working conditions.

You can be open about being a Satanist while in the Armed Forces but always remember that you will usually be stuck with the same people for at least a year or, as in my case, you may work in a job description without many people in it (MOS 8707). My old job only had 3,600 members in the USN and in a rate that small, word travels fast. If you're a "trouble maker" then you may want to do what I did while in and just keep your mouth shut. (From my experience, nobody could prove anything against me and it just made it that much easier to fuck with them! )

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I'm amazed with what I get away with at work...

but the real reason that anyone is out there is because you're fighting for the United States financial interests. That was something we were taught in Basic Training and is one of the things I've never forgotten.

I don't know who told you that, but you won't find that in any Army doctrine, whether you are right or wrong. What is "really" going on in Iraq will be up for debate centuries from now.

Let me preface this post with some personal history. My entire family once was, or is currently, military. I learned to shoot and kill at a very young age, and I have no problem killing people. I grew up as an "Army Brat", never living in one place for more than three years. I've been martially motivated and trained since my father deemed me old enough (about age 6). I am also (evidently) very intelligent. As far as knowledge goes, I scored a 99 on the ASVAB in 30 minutes, having not studied for it at all. As far as common sense, well, there's really no mental test for that, its just natural.

Now, for the main post: I recently (in May of 2003) joined the United States Airforce on the delayed enlistment program. My AFS (read: MOS) is 9S100, Applied Geophysics Technician. This is listed as a non-combative job, and there are about 240 of us total. The point of my post is that I didn't join under this MOS because I don't like or can't handle the thought of combat. I joined because its interesting to me, and the overall pay/benefits are decent. The AF is paying for college, yes, but that's not my reason either. My reason is that I've been military my whole life. I actually like it, regardless of the bullshit.

As far as the indoctrination required by the military, that is a personal thing. The way I view it is, "I can THINK whatever I wish, I just have to ACT as they tell me to act."

To summarize: No, the military is not, as a rule, a good career choice for a civilian. However, for those who have always BEEN military, there is no conflict of ideas.

Yes. I am a veteran. I also have had the honor of training US Army Rangers and other Special Ops personnel over the years in hand to hand techniques.

I have the greatest respect for the strong men and women who, like yourself, take up arms as a profession. It is an ancient and honorable profession. Anyone who enjoys liberty should feel gratitude to the military for making it possible.

Civilization depends upon keeping the barbarians subdued and the only thing they ultimately understand is violence. That has become abundantly obvious to any thinking person since the terrorist attacks of 9/11.

Another posting in this thread suggested the US military forces exist to protect the financial interests of the US. To that I have two comments. First, that has been the role of all military groups throughout history. Second, in today's world there is no place which is not of financial interest to the US and thus the statement has become meaningless.

But now I am bridging into politics and this is the wrong forum for that.

Let me preface this post with some personal history. My entire family once was, or is currently, military. I learned to shoot and kill at a very young age, and I have no problem killing people. I grew up as an "Army Brat", never living in one place for more than three years. I've been martially motivated and trained since my father deemed me old enough (about age 6). I am also (evidently) very intelligent. As far as knowledge goes, I scored a 99 on the ASVAB in 30 minutes, having not studied for it at all. As far as common sense, well, there's really no mental test for that, its just natural.

Who did you kill? Did your dad send you out to slaughter the locals? I sometimes wish I could kill those that live in my community but I recognize fantasy from reality.

Was your kill fun? I personal did not enjoy killing. I did it in an act of reaction and self-defense. I am not a ruthless murderer. I can judge the deference between the need to kill and the want to kill.

When you say you have no problem killing people are you saying in an act of protecting yourself or a cold-blooded murder?

Anyone can kill. It is not a hard act to commit. It does not take much to kill an unsuspecting victim. You can purchase a gun almost anywhere. People should understand there are repercussion to their actions (most people do). Not just punishment from the law, there is also emotional and mental repercussions. I had to deal with them. Killing is not an easy thing. Especially when you have no reason to feel hate towards your target. Is he truly trying to kill you because he hates you or is he just trying to survive and do his job like you? Is your victim a stranger who has done you no wrong?

I may be taking this out of proportion but what I got from your statement was that you can kill without any thoughts of your actions. Like a machine. Is this true? It takes a lot to condition a man to kill without regret.

You seemed to be proud of the fact you know how to kill and will. I find that ignorant. Everyone should be able to protect him or herself and kill an opponent that is trying to do the same to you. It is still an ugly act even if it for self-preservation or indiscriminate aggression.

My reason is that I've been military my whole life. I actually like it, regardless of the bullshit.

My entire family history is military as well. I am just one in a long list. That does not mean crap. I just fall into my own family breed condition. I have discovered that who my ancestors were and who I am, are not the same. Therefore I am not my grandfather.

Besides most of the bullshit, I did enjoy the military. There are aspects to the military I found interesting and fun. It just offered a rather empty future.

To each their own.

_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

Quote:I am be taking this out of proportion but what I got from your statement was that you can kill without any thoughts of your actions. Like a machine. Is this true? It takes a lot to condition a man to kill without regret.

They call those people sociopaths.

The few of us that have had to carry the unpleasant burden of killing another human, don't like it. It's not something we chose to brag about, but something we wish we never had to do.

I think there is a direct correllation to his chosing a non-combat MOS and the fact that he claims he is immune to the after affects of such actions. It's a well known fact that the further away your enemy is from you, the easier it is to de-humanise them and pull the trigger. Perhaps being a missle tech is the furthest away you can get, you'll never see the looks on your targets faces as they are blown apart. You'll never have to hear the wailing of their women, and see the little kids your shrapnel has crippled for life. You'll never get to see the blood spray as your bullets rip through their bodies, and their gurgled screaming before that horrid silence. That very same silence that follows you back to your tent, it follows you home, and it follows you out of the military and into civilian life.

He's a smart man for not wanting to live with that.

_________________________
"Many people would sooner die than think - in fact, they do so." ~ Bertrand Russell

"“Let the future tell the truth, and evaluate each one according to his work and accomplishments. The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine.” ~ Nikola Tesla