Hard to say, he's coaching the least explosive offense in the league, but is that entirely his fault? One hint about what Holmgren thinks of him is he's already decided that they'll get a true OC next season. The browns fan in me wants to say it's too early and I approve but the objective fan in me says I don't approve.

__________________..yes, this sig is a little embarrassing right now...but it's like my penance

My totally ignorant opinion is that Shurmur & the coaching staff / system are to blame. The OLine looked like one of the top lines in football last year and lead Hillis to beastly numbers. This year they suddenly can't spring anyone for more than a 30th ranked 3.3 per carry. I really have no idea what's going on but it sure looks like something stupid has to be in the way of better rushing success, at the very least.

Like I said before, the HC is not the problem, the real question is can the owner and his management team get some real talent on this team.
I'd have to say at this point that McCoy is not the answer at QB, we have no WR's, and the OL still needs help.
On defense we are very average with some talent but not enough to be a contender.
For any HC, we are looking at a long rebuilding project starting with a franchise QB. Until we get one we are whistling in the wind and going nowhere. The odds are still about 6% that you can find a QB in round 2 and even less if you rely on lower picks to fill the position.
I'm not at all sure that Holmgren believes in drafting a QB in round 1 so I remain skeptical of his ability to build a winner.
As for our owner, I am extremely negative about his ability to see a thing through or hire the correct people who can get the job done.

play calling is the biggest crutch. if he had players 'average' plays executed properly = results. dont hate the plays hate the players

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my scent?...like making love to a lumberjack
<TACKLE> i will ngata give you a bj raji
<+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
<+ScottWright> Why not. Baldwin does need a sparring partner...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermstheman83

What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.

Like I said before, the HC is not the problem, the real question is can the owner and his management team get some real talent on this team.

This is so off basis it's laughable. Randy Lerner is the issue because he has recognized that he was failing to pick out front office personal and head coaches that he gave the position to a Super Bowl winning, a great football minded and well respected Mike Holgrem. What an asshole of an owner we have.

I want an Al Davis/Jerry Jones/Dan Synder that will feel they are always right, while running their team into the ground.[/sarcasm] Who seriously wants that? We have an owner who wants a winner, who has deep pockets, and an open checkbook. What more is there to want from your owner?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian

I'd have to say at this point that McCoy is not the answer at QB, we have no WR's, and the OL still needs help.

It's been 14 games. There's 10 more and I doubt that career backup Wallace is the answer. Why not ride out McCoy and see what he has since he's been brilliant and awful and has yet to be consistent. While I'll agree that McCoy looks further from the answer after every game, there's still 10 more games for us to see if he can find the play that he showed he was capable of.

I think the WR's are fine. I feel a veteran guy would help the team (in replace of Robiskie who's been awful). Massaquoi has been playing really well and Little has shown some flashes that he can be a true player. Cribbs is an underrated WR who is very capable of being a 3 or 4 in this league. If we had a veteran WR that could team with MoMass and Little I think they would really benefit from it. No problem with Norwood or Mitchell being that developmental guy and 5th wideout.

Offensive line hasn't been a strong point but I think the injury to Steinbach and retirement of Yates was much more significant than people initially thought. Our young guards (Pinkston and Lauvao) have been struggling but Greco seemed to man the RG spot very well after Lauvao was replaced.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian

On defense we are very average with some talent but not enough to be a contender.

Damn our number 4 ranked average defense that has an inept offense and let a freak td when no call came into the huddle against Cincy. NFL scouts and coaches respect our defense. Go listen to Harbough's presser and listen to him rave about our D. Your reaching here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian

For any HC, we are looking at a long rebuilding project starting with a franchise QB. Until we get one we are whistling in the wind and going nowhere. The odds are still about 6% that you can find a QB in round 2 and even less if you rely on lower picks to fill the position.

It's still to early to say we don't have one. Colt's started 14 games, there's 10 left, lets look at a full 24 games and evaluate him after the season. Wallace isn't the answer, so you play Colt and if you need to draft/trade whatever to get your QB we will...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian

I'm not at all sure that Holmgren believes in drafting a QB in round 1 so I remain skeptical of his ability to build a winner.
As for our owner, I am extremely negative about his ability to see a thing through or hire the correct people who can get the job done.

...and another subject your completely off basis about. Why would you question if Holmgrem would draft a QB in the first round? Is it the fact that he hasn't? Surely you aren't implying that Holmgren has never drafted a qb first round so he never will when he's had qb's like Montana, Young, Favre and Hasslebeck. Is it that he waited for McCoy instead of reaching for Clausen? Do you even remember all the rumors of us trying to trade up to #1 for Bradford?

Also why so much hate for Randy Lerner? You realize it was his dad that helped Modell move the team to Baltimore (even though Al did help Cleveland get an expansion team and keep the name and colors) right?

"As for our owner, I am extremely negative about his ability to see a thing through or hire the correct people" coming from a guy who loves the Lions and Ford and talking about how they are doing things the right way when Ford kept Matt Millen for 8 years (2001-2008). What bullshit.

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Let's get some activity going in the Cleveland sub-forum!

[quote=j05son;2726821]This is so off basis it's laughable. Randy Lerner is the issue because he has recognized that he was failing to pick out front office personal and head coaches that he gave the position to a Super Bowl winning, a great football minded and well respected Mike Holgrem. What an asshole of an owner we have.

[quote]Face it, the jury is still out on Holmgren as a GM. It may turnout good or it may not. Success as a HC doesn't always translate to the GM office, ask Miami who tried it with Bill Parcells. Parcells also believed strongly in developing QB's which worked for him as a HC but didn't cut it as a GM.[/QUOTE]

I want an Al Davis/Jerry Jones/Dan Synder that will feel they are always right, while running their team into the ground.[/sarcasm] Who seriously wants that? We have an owner who wants a winner, who has deep pockets, and an open checkbook. What more is there to want from your owner?

[quote]As for Lerner, how many rebuilding projects has he tried with zero success. I don't want another bad owner, we already have our own.[/QUOTE]

It's been 14 games. There's 10 more and I doubt that career backup Wallace is the answer. Why not ride out McCoy and see what he has since he's been brilliant and awful and has yet to be consistent. While I'll agree that McCoy looks further from the answer after every game, there's still 10 more games for us to see if he can find the play that he showed he was capable of.

[quote]Obviously, we are going to ride out McCoy this year and maybe next year, so we will have lots of time to properly assess him.[/QUOTE]

I think the WR's are fine. I feel a veteran guy would help the team (in replace of Robiskie who's been awful). Massaquoi has been playing really well and Little has shown some flashes that he can be a true player. Cribbs is an underrated WR who is very capable of being a 3 or 4 in this league. If we had a veteran WR that could team with MoMass and Little I think they would really benefit from it. No problem with Norwood or Mitchell being that developmental guy and 5th wideout.

[quote]All our WR's are #2's or worse, we don't have a #1 WR on our roster.[/QUOTE]

Offensive line hasn't been a strong point but I think the injury to Steinbach and retirement of Yates was much more significant than people initially thought. Our young guards (Pinkston and Lauvao) have been struggling but Greco seemed to man the RG spot very well after Lauvao was replaced.

Quote:

All, I'm saying is it needs an upgrade at a couple of spots

.

Damn our number 4 ranked average defense that has an inept offense and let a freak td when no call came into the huddle against Cincy. NFL scouts and coaches respect our defense. Go listen to Harbough's presser and listen to him rave about our D. Your reaching here.

Quote:

Matter of opinion, it has played well but we'll see how it holds up against the Baltimore's and Pittsburgh's.

It's still to early to say we don't have one. Colt's started 14 games, there's 10 left, lets look at a full 24 games and evaluate him after the season. Wallace isn't the answer, so you play Colt and if you need to draft/trade whatever to get your QB we will...

[quote]Well, I already said McCoy will get many more games but if there is no improvement, how do you get a franchise QB drafting towards the middle of the pack. Drafting in the middle of the pack makes it pretty hard to find one, if and when he decides that McCoy isn't the answer.[/QUOTE]

...and another subject your completely off basis about. Why would you question if Holmgrem would draft a QB in the first round? Is it the fact that he hasn't? Surely you aren't implying that Holmgren has never drafted a qb first round so he never will when he's had qb's like Montana, Young, Favre and Hasslebeck. Is it that he waited for McCoy instead of reaching for Clausen? Do you even remember all the rumors of us trying to trade up to #1 for Bradford?

Quote:

Holmgren has shown in the past, that he likes to develop QB's rather than draft a star, that is how he has always operated. All I saying is that is his tendency and it scares me. Time will tell.[/QUOTE]

Also why so much hate for Randy Lerner? You realize it was his dad that helped Modell move the team to Baltimore (even though Al did help Cleveland get an expansion team and keep the name and colors) right?

QUOTE]I hate Lerner because so far he has shown himself to be an inept owner, period. Don't care about anything except that we have a winner and a contender.[/QUOTE]

"As for our owner, I am extremely negative about his ability to see a thing through or hire the correct people" coming from a guy who loves the Lions and Ford and talking about how they are doing things the right way when Ford kept Matt Millen for 8 years (2001-2008). What bullshit.

Don't get me started on Ford, he certainly isn't on my list of good owners but somehow he hired Matt Millen's assistant, Mayhew as his GM, through sheer luck IMO and we are seeing the results, despite Ford. If Ford can find a way, he still might screw up his team.You must like what you are seeing from our team to be so sure we are headed in the right direction, I still remain very skeptical.

Holmgren isn't the GM. He is the president. He is building this team in the style he wants, but he hired someone else to pick the players. Heckert is the GM, he drafts the players, signs the free agents, has final say in the roster. Shurmur is just the coach, he doesn't fiddle with roster management like so many head coaches have tried and failed, especially here with Mangini for one year and Butch Davis. The system is in place for us to succeed, we just need to find the QB and the supporting cast which will take a few years to do. We have a good core on defense, but like Canadian said we have some work to do on the O-Line, we have to find some WRs for a change and of course QB is still unsettled. I don't doubt we'd take one in round 1, it's more of a question of will one be there in round one when we pick or will we have to trade up to get a guy we like.

Holmgren isn't the GM. He is the president. He is building this team in the style he wants, but he hired someone else to pick the players. Heckert is the GM, he drafts the players, signs the free agents, has final say in the roster. Shurmur is just the coach, he doesn't fiddle with roster management like so many head coaches have tried and failed, especially here with Mangini for one year and Butch Davis. The system is in place for us to succeed, we just need to find the QB and the supporting cast which will take a few years to do. We have a good core on defense, but like Canadian said we have some work to do on the O-Line, we have to find some WRs for a change and of course QB is still unsettled. I don't doubt we'd take one in round 1, it's more of a question of will one be there in round one when we pick or will we have to trade up to get a guy we like.

I can guarantee you that Holmgren has the last say on prospects. I'm sure he and Heckert work as a team on the draft with no real dissension between them, but Holmgren is in charge and isn't going to put his career in jeopardy by allowing Heckert to overrule him on prospects. It's a team effort but the boss is the boss.
Hopefully, they allow Schurmur some say on prospects, at least some input, he has to live or die by their picks and should be at least consulted. In most solid organizations, the HC has a say even though the GM makes the final decision. The HC represents the short term needs, the GM handles the long term and decides between the 2 opposing ideas for the overall good of the organization.

Of course he has final say and has input into the draft board, but Holmgren has said that it's Heckert's draft and that he has faith in him to pick the right players. It's never a one man show in any organization, but Heckert and the scouting department are in charge of the draft and evaluating talent, why do you think we hired him? The drafts have been good so far too, why is it even an issue?

Face it, the jury is still out on Holmgren as a GM. It may turnout good or it may not. Success as a HC doesn't always translate to the GM office, ask Miami who tried it with Bill Parcells. Parcells also believed strongly in developing QB's which worked for him as a HC but didn't cut it as a GM.

Heckert is the GM and has a lot more authority than you're giving him. Holmgren may have final say but seldom if ever does he pull rank on Heckert's decisions.

Holmgren wanted Colt McCoy in the 3rd round of the '10 draft but Heckert wanted Cory Peters as he knew we needed DE help and had Peters ranked higher as a prospect than McCoy. If Atlanta didn't draft Peters 2 spots ahead of us we wouldn't have McCoy. It was after Peterson went off the board that Holmgren claimed it must be fate and they went and grabbed the qb.

As for the jury still being out on Holmgren, I think he can totally fail and his reputation wouldn't be tarnished. However he's doing things the right way and hiring Tom Heckert was a key element in the Browns getting better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian

As for Lerner, how many rebuilding projects has he tried with zero success. I don't want another bad owner, we already have our own.

Well Chris Palmer and Butch Davis were chosen by Lerner, Al Lerner. So Randy is responsible for Romeo Crennel, Eric Mangini and then giving Holmgren the keys where Mike and Tom chose Pat Shurmur.

So a direct answer to your question is 2 rebuilding attempts from 05-09 (Romeo and Mangini). Romeo was primed for a head coaching spot with the success of the Patriots and I believe Savage was the head of scouting for the "we always draft well" Baltimore Ravens. I don't think anyone questioned those decisions.

Eric Mangini's unusual hiring and the whole Kokinis thing could and should have went in a better direction (I personally liked the Mangini hire but not the way it was made, hc before gm and the power struggle and the whole Kokinis mess).

Why are you trying to make it seem like Randy Lerner is such a failure for his hires? Yeah he missed on both of them, but one of them seemed like a great decision at the time. Then he admitted he needed help to bring a winner and we have Holmgren and Heckert running the show. Why any Browns fan would ever mention our low key owner being the problem BAFFLES me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian

Obviously, we are going to ride out McCoy this year and maybe next year, so we will have lots of time to properly assess him.

Agreed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian

All our WR's are #2's or worse, we don't have a #1 WR on our roster.

I've stated we needed a WR and suggested he take Robiskies place. Little has the potential to be a #1 but is just raw. Massaquoi hasn't had any real veteran wr presence on the team and is a very under rated wideout. Cribbs looks great as a #3 or 4 WR with his big play ability, size and speed combo along with what he's shown on the field the past 2 years. Mitchell and Norwood make a fine developmental 5th wideout. I don't think a #1 is absolutely necessary but a veteran guy that can fit in the top 3 spots that can contribute while helping Little and MoMass progress.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian

Well, I already said McCoy will get many more games but if there is no improvement, how do you get a franchise QB drafting towards the middle of the pack. Drafting in the middle of the pack makes it pretty hard to find one, if and when he decides that McCoy isn't the answer.

How do you get a franchise QB drafting in the top of the draft? For every Peyton Manning, John Elway, Matt Ryan there's a Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, Jamarcus Russel, David Carr and Tim Couch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian

Don't get me started on Ford, he certainly isn't on my list of good owners but somehow he hired Matt Millen's assistant, Mayhew as his GM, through sheer luck IMO and we are seeing the results, despite Ford. If Ford can find a way, he still might screw up his team. You must like what you are seeing from our team to be so sure we are headed in the right direction, I still remain very skeptical.

I do like what I see from the Cleveland Browns. We have a stable front office in Lerner, Holmgren and Heckert - something we haven't had since the return. I like the players we are drafting and that we are making sure we keep our impact players (Thomas & Rubin for example). I like what Jauron is doing on defense and how our d is playing overall. I like the play calling of Shurmur even if the execution isn't correct. I think with our front office we are a team on the rise and with 6 picks in the first 4 rounds of next years draft including 2 firsts I believe we can add more impact players or have the ammo needed to go and get a QB we seem fit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian

I can guarantee you that Holmgren has the last say on prospects. I'm sure he and Heckert work as a team on the draft with no real dissension between them, but Holmgren is in charge and isn't going to put his career in jeopardy by allowing Heckert to overrule him on prospects. It's a team effort but the boss is the boss.
Hopefully, they allow Schurmur some say on prospects, at least some input, he has to live or die by their picks and should be at least consulted. In most solid organizations, the HC has a say even though the GM makes the final decision. The HC represents the short term needs, the GM handles the long term and decides between the 2 opposing ideas for the overall good of the organization.

Well of course Holmgren has final say, his title of President is higher than Heckert's General Manager title. However, just because Mike has the authority to out rule Tom's decisions doesn't mean he does. Holmgren hired Tom because he believe in him and it didn't hurt that Tom has a very strong resume and comes from the "Holmgrem-Reid" tree. Mike has stated multiple times that the draft is Heckert's domain. I even posted a link above when the Browns were going to draft a DE Heckert fancied even though Holmgren wanted the qb in McCoy.

Why would they not listen to Shurmur? Our front office listened to Mangini when he said he wanted Peyton Hillis did they not? Mangini tried to obtain Hillis his first year in Cleveland before H&H arrived and made it happen.

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Let's get some activity going in the Cleveland sub-forum!

[quote=j05son;2735297]How do you get a franchise QB drafting in the top of the draft? For every Peyton Manning, John Elway, Matt Ryan there's a Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, Jamarcus Russel, David Carr and Tim Couch.

It's simple really, you draft a potential franchise QB every chance you get till you get it right. Indy took George but it didn't let it stop them from taking Peyton, Cincy took Akili but then drafted Palmer, and San Diego drafted Leaf but eventually got lucky with Rivers.
You cannot win in the NFL today without a franchise QB, it is clearly the most important position on the team and I still wonder where we would be if we had drafted Sanchez and Jones instead of trading the picks, but I guess we'll never know.
The thing that was clear in following Detroit was that their last franchise QB was Layne back in the 50's, it took them over 50 years to find their next one in Stafford, and for those 50 odd years they were an irrelevant team.
The Browns have made it extremely difficult to now find a franchise QB, they set about improving the team before taking a shot at finding one. It is apparent to me that they could be drafting in the 12 -15 range for the next few years, and finding a franchise QB there is a very tough road to take, far better to find one when drafting in the top 5 or 10 and then build the team around them. We are going to need an high rate of luck to get one drafting lower in the rankings, I'd rate the odds at about 100-1 we can find one before we completely stink again which could easily turnout to be a long, long, long wait.
If I'm right, I'll be dead before the Browns are relevant again, but if you are right, then Holmgren got extremely lucky in the draft because he isn't going to get a top 5 pick again. Just have to wait to see what happens because neither of us knows the future.

ugh, it's one thing to pass on franchise QBs, but of all the ones we could pass on, I don't mind passing on Sanchez. He is not gonna be a great QB. He and Joe Flacco can have a party for themselves and call it the mediocre franchise QB party. From 2009 I'd much rather have Stafford or Freeman. # of TDs scored in a pro bowl, Alex Mack-1, Mark Sanchez-0. Jets would've gone to the super bowl the last two years if they had a better QB. Do you really think Sanchez would be any good with our talent? We would've Alex Smith'ed him.

We can argue about the Sanchez trade all we want. Mangini shouldn't run a draft. We botched those 3 second round picks big time. We could've had Clay Matthews and LeSean McCoy in hindsight with what we got for Sanchez. That would've made the trade a straight up rape. Instead we got Mack (great center) plus Veikune who never saw the field. The Jones trade I would do over and over and over again. We got Phil Taylor, Greg Little, Owen Marecic, a 1st round pick next year, and a 4th round pick next year all for a WR. We aren't in position to be adding luxury positions like WR anyway. Holmgren's mantra (and Heckert/Reid's as well) has always been don't draft a WR in round one unless you have filled every other important position. We need O-Line, QB, and defense before we can worry about drafting WRs and non-pass rushing LBs high.

Bill Belichick advised the Falcons GM not to make that trade. Honestly, how many super bowls did Belichick win with guys like Troy Brown, Deion Branch, etc. at WR? The Jones trade was one you make every day. Sanchez one is very debatable.

Even McCoy probably isn't that bad on an offense that can actually block and catch. He's probably a good backup, which for a late third rounder isn't bad value for a QB. Actually I think that was his expectations as a player coming out of the draft if you read what people were saying before the 2010 season.

ugh, it's one thing to pass on franchise QBs, but of all the ones we could pass on, I don't mind passing on Sanchez. He is not gonna be a great QB. He and Joe Flacco can have a party for themselves and call it the mediocre franchise QB party. From 2009 I'd much rather have Stafford or Freeman. # of TDs scored in a pro bowl, Alex Mack-1, Mark Sanchez-0. Jets would've gone to the super bowl the last two years if they had a better QB. Do you really think Sanchez would be any good with our talent? We would've Alex Smith'ed him.

We can argue about the Sanchez trade all we want. Mangini shouldn't run a draft. We botched those 3 second round picks big time. We could've had Clay Matthews and LeSean McCoy in hindsight with what we got for Sanchez. That would've made the trade a straight up rape. Instead we got Mack (great center) plus Veikune who never saw the field. The Jones trade I would do over and over and over again. We got Phil Taylor, Greg Little, Owen Marecic, a 1st round pick next year, and a 4th round pick next year all for a WR. We aren't in position to be adding luxury positions like WR anyway. Holmgren's mantra (and Heckert/Reid's as well) has always been don't draft a WR in round one unless you have filled every other important position. We need O-Line, QB, and defense before we can worry about drafting WRs and non-pass rushing LBs high.

Bill Belichick advised the Falcons GM not to make that trade. Honestly, how many super bowls did Belichick win with guys like Troy Brown, Deion Branch, etc. at WR? The Jones trade was one you make every day. Sanchez one is very debatable.

I agree somewhat with what you are saying but it is the philosophy that I disagree with. You draft a potential franchise QB when an opportunity presents itself and Sanchez got a pretty high grade in his draft year, yet we passed on him. The draft is a crap shoot so we got in return what we could probably expect. In a more open system than the Jets run, he might put up far better #'s. Ryan still believes he can take the Jets to the Super Bowl and I know one thing for sure, he is far better than McCoy.
As for Jones, he was a top 5 talent who slipped to us, now I do agree in principal with not taking a WR before other problems are solved but he would have been a nice finishing touch for Sanchez if he was our QB and in the draft, you strike when a player slips to you. I know our offense would be at least dangerous with those 2 on the team and I'd much rather have taken my chances on finding an OC and DT later in the draft. The majority of players in the NFL who play those positions were later picks, especially OC's.
What really scares me is that finding a franchise QB is extremely difficult and can take a team decades to accomplish. I just hope that somehow we strike it rich before too many more drafts go by.

I will agree that you go after a QB until you get one and will be all for listening to a ransom request for the #1 choice and Luck. However, just because you pass on a potential franchise QB doesn't mean you aren't doing things the right way. If we didn't like Sanchez (a 1 year starter that had something like 10 career college starts) then we did the right thing passing on him. You don't take players just because someone else thinks they're good.

As for Jones, best.trade.ever!

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I will agree that you go after a QB until you get one and will be all for listening to a ransom request for the #1 choice and Luck. However, just because you pass on a potential franchise QB doesn't mean you aren't doing things the right way. If we didn't like Sanchez (a 1 year starter that had something like 10 career college starts) then we did the right thing passing on him. You don't take players just because someone else thinks they're good.

As for Jones, best.trade.ever!

Unfortunately, I don't think Mangini was much of a GM and got racked in the Sanchez trade. As for the Jones trade, we'll know in 3 years just who got taken.

I am not saying anything crazy like he is losing the locker room already, but as a coach you always want to maintain the respect and trust of your players. But if coach Shurmur is actually preaching to the players the same garbage he is spewing at the press conferences, I know the players are already questioning him.

For example, at the press conference he told reporters that he told his players that losses like that are what happens when you don’t execute, which as a general statement is true, but at no point during the conference did he even suggest that him burying his head in the sand had anything to do with the outcome. He even actually said the reporters were “nitpicking” and everything over the course of the game can be second-guessed if you wanted to nitpick.

To me that whole statement is nonsense. Of course there are critical points in games where a coach’s input and decision is key to the outcome of a game. They get paid a king’s ransom to make those decisions and dictate strategy, so for him not to recognize that his choice to pack it in was a huge factor in the FG even being attempted is dead wrong.

In his Monday press conference the first year coach continued the scam he started at the post game press conference by saying “you can score running just like you can score passing”. No ****, Sherlock, but not this team.

The 2011 Cleveland Browns have 2 rushing TDs all year, both by a player watching the game in street clothes. Peyton Hillis hasn’t suited up in over a month and the Browns have zero rushing TDs during that time and, by the way….the Browns active RBs for Sunday have ZERO TDs rushing not just this year but for their careers. So don’t try and sell me some BS about how we had just as good of a chance running for a TD as we did passing. Just save the air in your lungs if that is what you have to say.

I am not even going to harp on the fact that coach Shurmur initially had no clue his starting FB was not in the game, and then failed to fix the situation once he found out about it, because I do acknowledge the stupid in that snafu. Especially once I found out he knew he called a FB dive with no FB in the game and did not think it was important enough to fix.

I actually would rather focus on how in the hell he thought a FB run from the 9 yard line was an adequate call at all.

^And this was against the 1-7 Rams. On the player side, the other critical point in the game imo was when we were down 10-9 with an opportunity in the red zone for 6. On 3rd down McCoy threw high to the RB on an out, about 3yd from a 1st at about the 5, stopping him and making him extend for the ball to catch it. Bad throw and bad decision. A well thrown ball leading the RB might have got it done but there was also an opportunity to hit the WR on a back fade with a good ball. Critical missed opportunity for a TD there. 10-12 instead of 10-16 was a world of difference in this game.

That was also the first game all season it seemed like the playcalling was genuinely creative. Getting Cribbs the ball in different ways and using Little something like he was used at UNC. Shurmur said something about this was the first defense all year that made these types of plays possible. Sure.

Another thing that's been bugging me.... Robiskie was the starter all through camp and to begin the season. Even with his early struggles Shurmur never said anything critical about him. "He's steady." He's then cut for being utterly useless after 5-6 games. Who's evaluating talent that didn't see that the guy could not and would not get it done? As the coach shouldn't he have known or had a good idea of what he had before training camp even started? That just doesn't look good for Pat.

And what's with the decision to wear all white ALL season!?

__________________..yes, this sig is a little embarrassing right now...but it's like my penance

We'll know next year just which direction this team is going. It is not at all unusual for even great HC's to have losing seasons in their first season on the job. Heck, Jimmy Johnson went something like 1-15 in his first year so too did Tom Landry and many other HoF HC's.
They all used year 1 to clean out the junk on the team and bring in the personnel they could work with. However, almost to a man, they managed 8-8 records in their second season and made the playoffs in their 3rd year on the job.
We'll see how Schurmur stacks up next season, another 4 or 5 win season and we'll know the team is off track and going nowhere fast.

We'll know next year just which direction this team is going. It is not at all unusual for even great HC's to have losing seasons in their first season on the job. Heck, Jimmy Johnson went something like 1-15 in his first year so too did Tom Landry and many other HoF HC's.
They all used year 1 to clean out the junk on the team and bring in the personnel they could work with. However, almost to a man, they managed 8-8 records in their second season and made the playoffs in their 3rd year on the job.
We'll see how Schurmur stacks up next season, another 4 or 5 win season and we'll know the team is off track and going nowhere fast.

It's just not about the record, it's about the game by game decisions. And the general lack of common sense that worry me. I don't believe you are supposed to take time to grow in terms of basic decision making. He's at the top of his profession! In the entire world! One of the best 32 coaches in the world! (in theory anyway)

And the other thing is that he was on no ones' radar, like at all to begin with. It's like Colt, just because they are the guys right in front of us, it doesn't mean they will be good or great.

Continuity just for continuity's sake is nonsense. Maybe I'm bitter, but I do think I'm right in this case.