WASHINGTON—President Barack Obama is warning Russia "there will be costs" for any military maneuvers it launches in Ukraine, a move U.S. and Ukrainian officials say they believe to be already underway. Officials say Obama may retaliate by canceling a trip to Russia this summer for an international summit and could also cut off trade discussions with Moscow. But it's unclear whether th...

From the article: Officials say Obama may retaliate by canceling a trip to Russia this summer for an international summit and could also cut off trade discussions with Moscow. But it's unclear whether those moves will have any impact on Russia's calculus in Ukraine ...

At the White House, a somber Obama decried the situation in Ukraine and warned about deeper outside intervention.

"Just days after the world came to Russia for the Olympic Games, that would invite the condemnation of nations around the world," he said. "The United States will stand with the international community in affirming that there will be costs for any military intervention in Ukraine."

Once again Putin has pantsed Obama and left him standing in the public square with his underwear around his ankles. 'I'll cancel our golf date! I won't speak to you for weeks! I won't buy anymore of your little matryoshka dolls! I'll talk bad about you with the rest of the international community!' Seriously? Anyone who thinks this will have any impact on Russia's calculus in Ukraine is delusional.

Note that I'm not arguing that he should do anything, I'm just saying that making such lame threats only underscores his impotence. If this is the best he can do he -- and this country -- would be better off if he'd just shut up. Once again he's turned Teddy Roosevelt's admonishment on its head, he speaks constantly and carries no stick at all.

Consequently, our allies no longer trust or count on us, our enemies laugh at us, and before this is all over his cheerleaders will be hoping, not that he'll accomplish anything, but that once again he'll find a face-saving way to retreat.

Ps. Incidentally, the full text of Obama's speech sounds even more week-kneed than this synopsis. "There will be costs" is the strongest admonition in an otherwise even more vague and gaseous bit of whimpering. Note that it's "officials" who say what he might do in retaliation, Obama doesn't even go that far. He's not threatening that the US will retaliate, he's threatening that the "international community" will retaliate and his authority to speak for the international community? None Whatsoever.

This is like dealing with a schoolyard bully by threatening to have your Mommy give him a stern talking-to.

Last edited by swen swenson on March 1st, 2014, 7:03 am, edited 4 times in total.

"Mr. Putin, Tear down that wall" ...wait that's been done? Ok then, how about this, "Mr. Putin, you sir are a cotton headed ninny muggins". That was done in the movie Elf? Really? Seriously...can't we get some better speech writers in this circular office

Sir...it's oval.

Whatever, just put this in the speech, "the international community will be very very very very very upset about an invasion. I'm serious here. I mean we're going to be really mad. Now, if you don't mind, would you please, with sugar on top, keep working on that Syria thing. Because I've tried using my words there and it's just not helping. Those people just won't listen to me."

Putin has since (again) thumbed his nose at what he perceives to be an impotent President Obama by asking the Russian parliament to allow him to send the military into Ukraine. I can't recall any President of the US who commanded so little respect in the world.

We put $5Billion(money never a problem for this foolishness) in there to de-stabilze Ukraine.....back a neo-Nazi party to assume power. Then the "new" government votes to remove the law allowing Russian as a second language. 'We are all Ukrainians.' Then when Russia moves to support its historic military interest, we call their moves undermining stability!! Here we go again!! Back Al-Qi'da in Syria....now neo-Nazis in Ukraine. Is there no end to this Nonsense?? Given the cultural split in Ukraine(there are really two Ukraines), peaceful solution is partition!! Otherwise there will be lots of blood shed and more suffering of a lot of people!! But of course Obama needs us to shift our focus away from the mess that our country is becoming at home!! Thats what this perpetual soldier boy nonsense is all about!! We will hear all sorts of talk about National Security/International Security...Stability... but not a word will be said about FUKUSHIMA ongoing Nuclear disaster: the real Security threat to the US and the planet!! No focus by Obama on Radiation. but oh my goodness look at Ukraine!! shock:

For what it's worth this has happened to a lot of presidents. Saddam invaded Kuwait under the watch of George Bush (Sr.). And there were consequences for that. The difference was that, at the time, a military option was viable. We had the whole world behind us, our military was "well rested", and Iraq wasn't exactly a tough nut to crack.

Fast forward to now and the reality of our situation. Our military is worn down and exhausted. Russia isn't exactly Iraq. And finally...sorry to sound cold but this isn't a direct threat to our national security. Plus, for what it's worth (at least for now) the Russian soldiers aren't gunning people down in the streets (the pictures I've seen from Crimea are of regular citizens taking cell phone pics of the soldiers).

So the question is - if you were the US President what would you do? I'm not exactly what you'd call Obama's biggest supporter...but short of canceling visits to Russia and some diplomatic wrangling what sort of options do you think we have? Are you willing to send our troops to fight and die against the Russians in Ukraine?

Build a man a fire he's warm for a night. Set a man on fire he's warm for the rest of his life.

Separately, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said that while he would not address specific U.S. options

Once again Putin has snookered our paper tiger empty suit and his lackey Hagel. I think Vlad is laughing at Bo and his anemic administration knowing their sabre rattling is nothing more than empty rhetoric in itself following on the heels of Hagel's decision to gut our military by 140,000 troops. Putin is waiting for another line in the sand from Obama, so it can be moved numerous times, while sitting in the Kremlin chuckling!

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." -- Thomas Jefferson

moeski wrote:Putin has since (again) thumbed his nose at what he perceives to be an impotent President Obama by asking the Russian parliament to allow him to send the military into Ukraine. I can't recall any President of the US who commanded so little respect in the world.

How is Putin thumbing his nose at Obama? It's their business, not ours. We have no say in this.

MPilot wrote:For what it's worth this has happened to a lot of presidents. Saddam invaded Kuwait under the watch of George Bush (Sr.). And there were consequences for that. The difference was that, at the time, a military option was viable. We had the whole world behind us, our military was "well rested", and Iraq wasn't exactly a tough nut to crack.

Fast forward to now and the reality of our situation. Our military is worn down and exhausted. Russia isn't exactly Iraq. And finally...sorry to sound cold but this isn't a direct threat to our national security. Plus, for what it's worth (at least for now) the Russian soldiers aren't gunning people down in the streets (the pictures I've seen from Crimea are of regular citizens taking cell phone pics of the soldiers).

So the question is - if you were the US President what would you do? I'm not exactly what you'd call Obama's biggest supporter...but short of canceling visits to Russia and some diplomatic wrangling what sort of options do you think we have? Are you willing to send our troops to fight and die against the Russians in Ukraine?

Questions #1 and 2.) We should STAY THE HELL OUT OF IT. It's none of our business.Question #3.) Not just no, but HELL NO.

I warned you people back in 2007 that Obama was going to be a carbon-copy of Bush and would continue most of his policies. And you laughed at me. All I have to say about that is:

jakebrake wrote:Once again Putin has snookered our paper tiger empty suit and his lackey Hagel. I think Vlad is laughing at Bo and his anemic administration knowing their sabre rattling is nothing more than empty rhetoric in itself following on the heels of Hagel's decision to gut our military by 140,000 troops. Putin is waiting for another line in the sand from Obama, so it can be moved numerous times, while sitting in the Kremlin chuckling!

That is one of the few things Hagel and this administration have done right. Cut 'em down to the bone, close ALL overseas bases, and protect the borders. Save taxpayers trillions.

The rest of the world can pay for their own defense and take care of their own issues.

I warned you people back in 2007 that Obama was going to be a carbon-copy of Bush and would continue most of his policies. And you laughed at me. All I have to say about that is:

MPilot wrote:For what it's worth this has happened to a lot of presidents. Saddam invaded Kuwait under the watch of George Bush (Sr.). And there were consequences for that. The difference was that, at the time, a military option was viable. We had the whole world behind us, our military was "well rested", and Iraq wasn't exactly a tough nut to crack.

Fast forward to now and the reality of our situation. Our military is worn down and exhausted. Russia isn't exactly Iraq. And finally...sorry to sound cold but this isn't a direct threat to our national security. Plus, for what it's worth (at least for now) the Russian soldiers aren't gunning people down in the streets (the pictures I've seen from Crimea are of regular citizens taking cell phone pics of the soldiers).

So the question is - if you were the US President what would you do? I'm not exactly what you'd call Obama's biggest supporter...but short of canceling visits to Russia and some diplomatic wrangling what sort of options do you think we have? Are you willing to send our troops to fight and die against the Russians in Ukraine?

I think your assessment is correct, other than diplomatic wrangling and perhaps some covert assistance to the rebels there's really nothing we can do. We'd be insane to get into a military confrontation with Russia, the "international community" -- at least the Europeans -- are too dependent on Russian oil and gas to levy trade sanctions against Russia and they're certainly in no position to get into a military confrontation.

So when Obama threatens the approbation of the "international community" he's essentially saying 'we'll stand here and clutch our pearls and Tssk! very loudly while you do what you will to Ukraine'. If loud Tssks are what he meant when he said there would be costs -- and what other cost could there be(?) -- he'd have been better off to just keep his mouth shut than to make such obviously empty threats.

But then he has quite a record of making empty threats so why stop now?

If you want to see what it looks like when the government runs everything, visit an Indian Reservation.

MPilot wrote:For what it's worth this has happened to a lot of presidents. Saddam invaded Kuwait under the watch of George Bush (Sr.). And there were consequences for that. The difference was that, at the time, a military option was viable. We had the whole world behind us, our military was "well rested", and Iraq wasn't exactly a tough nut to crack.

Fast forward to now and the reality of our situation. Our military is worn down and exhausted. Russia isn't exactly Iraq. And finally...sorry to sound cold but this isn't a direct threat to our national security. Plus, for what it's worth (at least for now) the Russian soldiers aren't gunning people down in the streets (the pictures I've seen from Crimea are of regular citizens taking cell phone pics of the soldiers).

So the question is - if you were the US President what would you do? I'm not exactly what you'd call Obama's biggest supporter...but short of canceling visits to Russia and some diplomatic wrangling what sort of options do you think we have? Are you willing to send our troops to fight and die against the Russians in Ukraine?

I think your assessment is correct, other than diplomatic wrangling and perhaps some covert assistance to the rebels there's really nothing we can do. We'd be insane to get into a military confrontation with Russia, the "international community" -- at least the Europeans -- are too dependent on Russian oil and gas to levy trade sanctions against Russia and they're certainly in no position to get into a military confrontation.

So when Obama threatens the approbation of the "international community" he's essentially saying 'we'll stand here and clutch our pearls and Tssk! very loudly while you do what you will to Ukraine'. If loud Tssks are what he meant when he said there would be costs -- and what other cost could there be(?) -- he'd have been better off to just keep his mouth shut than to make such obviously empty threats.

But then he has quite a record of making empty threats so why stop now?

Oh I don't know that it's necessarily an empty threat. The United States is still the largest consumer market in the world so some form of trade sanctions are a very real threat.

I think you and I are in agreement that Russian oil is not going to be part of that as European countries are far too dependent on it. However, I think that canceling the upcoming talks about increasing trade between Russia and the US hurts them more than us.

It's a valid threat. And honestly saying "he should have just kept his mouth shut"...well that wouldn't work. The US President not saying anything about a huge country invading another large country in Europe? He *had* to make a statement. And as far as "costs" - well of course he's going to say that. The "cost" is a further worsening of Russia's international image along with loss of trade/business.

Those costs might not equate to cities being leveled but they are very real.

And really he made the only statement he could. Threatening military action would have been ludicrous as no one would have taken that seriously. And not saying anything makes us look either weak or disinterested.

I think, in this instance, he made the only play that was available to him.

Build a man a fire he's warm for a night. Set a man on fire he's warm for the rest of his life.

The Russians are watching Western Europe being swarmed under by the Third World just as we are. They've made it quite clear they don't want that for Russia and most likely don't want that for one of their closest neighbors either. The Ukraine joining the European Union and NATO opens the floodgates. Russians are nothing if not pragmatic. They're not going to allow that.

“It is not inequality which is the real misfortune, it is dependence.” ― Voltaire

MPilot wrote:For what it's worth this has happened to a lot of presidents. Saddam invaded Kuwait under the watch of George Bush (Sr.). And there were consequences for that. The difference was that, at the time, a military option was viable. We had the whole world behind us, our military was "well rested", and Iraq wasn't exactly a tough nut to crack.

Fast forward to now and the reality of our situation. Our military is worn down and exhausted. Russia isn't exactly Iraq. And finally...sorry to sound cold but this isn't a direct threat to our national security. Plus, for what it's worth (at least for now) the Russian soldiers aren't gunning people down in the streets (the pictures I've seen from Crimea are of regular citizens taking cell phone pics of the soldiers).

So the question is - if you were the US President what would you do? I'm not exactly what you'd call Obama's biggest supporter...but short of canceling visits to Russia and some diplomatic wrangling what sort of options do you think we have? Are you willing to send our troops to fight and die against the Russians in Ukraine?

I think your assessment is correct, other than diplomatic wrangling and perhaps some covert assistance to the rebels there's really nothing we can do. We'd be insane to get into a military confrontation with Russia, the "international community" -- at least the Europeans -- are too dependent on Russian oil and gas to levy trade sanctions against Russia and they're certainly in no position to get into a military confrontation.

So when Obama threatens the approbation of the "international community" he's essentially saying 'we'll stand here and clutch our pearls and Tssk! very loudly while you do what you will to Ukraine'. If loud Tssks are what he meant when he said there would be costs -- and what other cost could there be(?) -- he'd have been better off to just keep his mouth shut than to make such obviously empty threats.

But then he has quite a record of making empty threats so why stop now?

Oh I don't know that it's necessarily an empty threat. The United States is still the largest consumer market in the world so some form of trade sanctions are a very real threat.

I think you and I are in agreement that Russian oil is not going to be part of that as European countries are far too dependent on it. However, I think that canceling the upcoming talks about increasing trade between Russia and the US hurts them more than us.

It's a valid threat. And honestly saying "he should have just kept his mouth shut"...well that wouldn't work. The US President not saying anything about a huge country invading another large country in Europe? He *had* to make a statement. And as far as "costs" - well of course he's going to say that. The "cost" is a further worsening of Russia's international image along with loss of trade/business.

Those costs might not equate to cities being leveled but they are very real.

And really he made the only statement he could. Threatening military action would have been ludicrous as no one would have taken that seriously. And not saying anything makes us look either weak or disinterested.

I think, in this instance, he made the only play that was available to him.

It's shaping up to be a long cold winter, so we cut off trade with Russia and in return Russia shuts off the gas to the EU. In a couple of weeks the "international community" would be burning Obama in effigy just to keep warm.

I suppose you're right that Obama had to say something, but threatening that the international community would levy some sort of cost on Russia? Russia has them by the short and curlies, I really think that's a completely empty threat.

If you want to see what it looks like when the government runs everything, visit an Indian Reservation.