MS: HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE
YOUR OWN POLITICAL BELIEFS?KN: First and foremost, I'm
a feminist. And basically that stems
from a strong belief that all people
and creatures deserve equal opportunity,
rights and respect.

MS: THESE DAYS A LOT OF WOMEN
ARE UNCOMFORTABLE WITH DEFINING THEMSELVES
AS FEMINIST, YET YOU INSIST ON BEING
IDENTIFIED THAT WAY AND MUCH OF YOUR
WORK HAS BEEN CATEGORIZED AS FEMINIST
COMEDY. WHAT DOES THAT TERM MEAN TO
YOU?KN: Well, it depends on the
context in which I use it. But, even
when we came to New York and were
doing the first "Kathy and Mo", I'd
say to our publicist, "Put feminist
comedy on the poster." And they'd
say, "No, why don't you do this. Don't
put it. Have them come and then surprise
them. Let them learn something without
knowing." And I would say, "No. If
people who are feminists and wholeheartedly
believe in feminism don't take pride
and joy and totally stick it in people's
faces, then the stigma attached to
feminism will never change." Then
you'll never have to prove things
like that because when people think
of feminism they will think of being
smart and funny and likable. People
say "Don't put feminism" because they
think oh, there's no sense of humor
and it's cold and it's off-putting
- well, how is that going to change
if the real feminists who are nothing
like that - most of them - don't start
saying "I'm feminist". It will just
continue and continue and continue.
So, I said, "Put it on the poster
and then when they come they'll be
even more surprised." I don't know
where that came from in the first
place - that myth about no sense of
humor and all that - most of the feminists
I know are hilarious, very. So, I
don't know where that came from in
the first place but we need to blast
that away so we don't have to go over
that hump. So we don't even need to
approach that problem - it's so old
and tired. And it's certainly not
true and that's how I started insisting
on using the word feminist.

I use it now because, well, because
I am, and it just comes out of my
mouth, but second of all, like you
say, there are a lot of people who
know me in a different way - they
know me as the cheerful nun from "Sister
Act". So if the cheerful nun from
"Sister Act" is everywhere you read
saying she's feminist, how can they
attach those stigmas of no sense of
humor and not warm, if they already
like you? Also, I think it's important
for the next generation. And I do
it as a pride thing - like I say I'm
Lebanese the same way I say I'm feminist
because I'm proud of being Lebanese
- I think it's cool - and I think
it's cool to be feminist. And what
feminism means - I guess I could go
into the definition, but I think of
it as equality, choice, fairness.
Respect for animals and children and
men and women and equality. It's something
that's based in a very loving theory
for me. And the term post-feminist
bugs the shit out of me. What's that
about? It's like people who are unable
to deal. So I'll keep saying it as
many times as I can to make up for
the people who are scared to or think
it's bad vibe or whatever, because
I think it's good vibe.

MS: YOU HAVE DEVELOPED A REPUTATION
FOR BEING STRONG, SPEAKING YOUR MIND,
IGNORING CONVENTION. IS THIS HOW YOU'D
LIKE THE PUBLIC TO PERCEIVE YOU?KN: You know one thing I've
been getting afraid of reading some
of the articles about me is that I'm
not representing - along with the
confidence -the insecure and fear-filled
parts of me. So, I've been trying
to talk about that a little bit too
just so if people really want to get
to know who I am they get a more balanced
view. Because when you're asked a
question, the sanest part of your
mind sometimes answers. But I don't
always operate on the sanest part
of my mind. A lot of times I'm filled
with fear, insecurity, vulnerability,
misdirection, confusion and doubt.
And I just want to make sure I include
that in my answers because that certainly
is a real part of me.

MS: YOU'VE BEEN VERY VOCAL
ABOUT THE ISSUE OF CHOICE. FOR YOU,
WHAT IS THE REAL ISSUE HERE? WHY SHOULD
WOMEN HAVE THIS RIGHT?KN: Well, here's the issue.
If you don't have your rights, I don't
have my rights. It's a little bit
selfish. People say, 'Well, why do
you work for gay and lesbian rights?
Why do you work for whatever?" If
you don't have your rights, I don't
have my rights. Especially as a woman,
I don't have my rights. And the absolute
right that we have is the right to
our own body. You have the absolute
right to your own body. If you don't
wish to have an abortion, God bless
you and I hope you have a long and
happy life. And if I wish to, it is
my business and not yours. . . I mean,
how many homeless kids can there be,
how many AIDS babies can there be?
How many single, young mothers can
there be? It's so glaringly obvious
that their energy, if they really,
truly care about life - if they call
me up right now, I can give them fifty
places where they could be effective
with their caring, to save lives.
They want to save babies? I can give
them the number of a pediatric AIDS
ward in Harlem where they can go and
save as many babies as they want.
I so encourage saving babies, I adore
babies. They want to save young teenage
girls' lives, I can give them fifty
more numbers. So, it's so clearly
not about saving young girls' lives,
it's not about saving babies lives',
it's not about wishing a full, productive,
happy life on someone. It's not about
that. It's about some weird powerful
obsession to play God. To say, "Listen,
I f-cked my life up, or I neatly organized
my life and it's resulted the way
I want, I'm not going to need an abortion,
so I'm going to stop you from having
one." And especially men. I can't
even talk about men being in the Choice
issue - it's so none of their fucking
business. That's so appalling to me.
That's like us making the rules for
people on another planet. It's none
of their business.

MS: A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY IF
MEN WERE THE ONES WHO GOT PREGNANT,
ABORTION WOULD BE EXTREMELY ACCESSIBLE.KN: Not only would abortion
be legal, you would be able to go
to 7-11 and get one, for like 75 cents.
You know, that's ridiculous. And when
I say it's none of men's business,
of course I don't mean like the father
of the children. I, of course, think
men should be involved in all decisions
having to do with their child, but
as a political voice, please - bite
me. And not only abortions, but birth
control. Birth control would be safe,
legal and effective. Cheap, healthful
- there would be no question. Birth
control would be like oat bran.

MS: THAT'S ANOTHER POINT -
THAT THESE ANTI-CHOICE PEOPLE ARE
ALSO ANTI-BIRTH CONTROL. IT'S A NO
WIN SITUATION. KN: And the capper is anti-Choice
people are so against sex education.
So, we won't tell you you can get
pregnant. We won't give you any help
in not getting pregnant. We won't
talk to you about sex or abstinence.
We won't tell you the truth about
sex, and yet when you get pregnant,
we're going to make you have the baby.

MS: NOW WITH THE REHAULING
OF WELFARE SYSTEM, SINGLE TEENAGE
MOTHERS MAY NOT ONLY LOSE WELFARE
BUT THEIR CHILD TO AN ORPHANAGE.KN:Welfare, AIDS, child abuse,
teenage pregnancy, poverty, homelessness
- we can go on and on and on and on.
And if they wished to be involved
with making lives full, or with helping
babies - like I say, there are so
many avenues that need help. We don't
need help with decisions about what
to do about our bodies. We need sex
education, we need birth control,
we need understanding and we need
respect and we need for them to leave
us alone.

MS:D O YOU THINK THAT THE GAINS
OF THE WOMEN'S MOVEMENT HAVE DONE
ANYTHING TO ERODE THE PATRIARCHY THAT
EXISTS IN THIS COUNTRY?KN: It's done something. I don't
know that it's been enough. I still
feel like we're still in that chasm
of where people believe that there's
a phrase called "post-feminism". I
think Susan Faludi has her finger
right on the answer when she talks
about the backlash, and I think we're
still right in the middle of it. It's
like we were working really hard,
and even though there was really strong
opposition, you could actually feel
when we progressed. You could feel
the progression. Some fights would
be so hard and so slow and so painful,
but then you could see the results.
And it seemed like we were slowly
toiling forward. And then all of a
sudden, this veil dropped down of,
"Everything's OK, and it's not important
to be political and, in fact, it's
not even popular. And everything's
done, enough is done and now we can
talk about it like it was long ago."
And I think there are certain little
movements that are shooting out of
that, like there's a group called
"The Third Wave". It's started by
Rebecca Walker, Alice Walker's daughter
and Shannon Liss. And it's young women,
and it's really organized, they're
really cool and they're really angry
- it's a bunch of young women saying,
"OK, we got to a certain point and
then the ball was dropped and now
it feels like we're going backwards
and that's not enough for us. We still
have our lives to live."

And so, you know, I think there
is a small chipping away at patriarchy
in different little projects and different
instances, but as a whole movement
- it doesn't feel like a movement
anymore. A movement to me is something
that's really big and united and really
hard to stop. And there are still
very concerned, very smart, very committed,
very political groups and people,
but it doesn't feel like a movement
to me. So, I'm sure little battles
are being won, but I'm really anxious
to get back to the arm-in-arm thing.
It's something that's very frustrating
to me because what it does, for me
at least, is encourages you to go
back in your own little hole and your
own little life and be only concerned
with your own little personal things.
And ultimately that's not very satisfying.
So, I'm all for a real, sort of a
1979 kind of big Earth Day kind of
movement, where we feel the movement
going forward, because you know that
nothing can really get done unless
you have that passion, that urgency.
Maybe it's going to take a bunch more
Newt Gingriches.

MS: MY MOTHER, WHO'S PRESIDENT
OF A COMPANY, ONCE LECTURED ME ABOUT
HOW MY GENERATION TAKES IT FOR GRANTED
HOW THEY HAD TO FIGHT TO GET WHERE
THEY ARE TODAY AND THAT IT'S UP TO
US TO KEEP UP THE MOMENTUM.KN: Oh, yeah, absolutely. .
. Every time I do an interview, I
try to remember to say that I am so
proud of where I got, but I know that
I got here because of other people's
work also. I always point out Lily
Tomlin's one woman show, the work
that the women's movement did, that
allowed me - it's just not a fluke
that I am a political person from
San Diego that doesn't know anybody,
that doesn't look like a movie star,
that doesn't come from any connection,
that doesn't have any money - and
I am able to work in the business
and be known. It's not just because
I am so brilliantly magically talented
and special, you know what I mean?
It's because I was lucky enough to
come behind some people and organizations
that paved the way for me and that
made my kind of politics popular and
made society open for things like "Kathy and Mo" . . .It's great, but
it's also because of Gloria Steinem
and Whoopi Goldberg's one woman show
and Lily Tomlin's one woman show -
you know what I mean? Tons of people
who came before us, that said, "You
need to listen to us. And feminists
are funny." And these women do have
a point of view and took the chances
and the challenges before me.

And I'm really proud of myself.
And I know that I worked my ass off
to get where I am. I worked really,
really hard - but I also know that
even with all the hard work - and
with any talent that I have or whatever
- I wouldn't have gotten jack shit
if it wasn't for the women's movement
and the performers before me and the
people who take chances and the people
who fought for their rights and fought
to be heard and fought not to just
be silly little women in the background.
But now, it's like oy, God - it's
like pulling teeth to get any successful
women in Hollywood to acknowledge
where they came from.

MS: I REMEMBER YOU TALKED ABOUT
THAT IN ONE OF YOUR SPEECHES, ABOUT
HOW FEMALE DIRECTORS IN HOLLYWOOD
ARE HESITANT TO IDENTIFY THEMSELVES
AS A "WOMEN DIRECTORS".KN: Well, because it's a boy's
club and they recognize it and they're
smart and they want a career. But
come on, we all know that just recently
women are being acknowledged as directors,
as far as like the last five years.
It's so new. Is that because women
are stupid or can't direct or are
not talented? No. It's because we
never acknowledged women, we never
encouraged women, we never employed
women, we never gave women opportunities
to be directors. So, for the women
who fought, for the first women who
went to film school and fought and
fought and fought - for the women's
movement, for all the women who came
before - now those women are able
to be directors. But they cannot forget
where they came from or how they got
there. Otherwise, what's the use of
fighting? So, yeah, it really, obviously
makes me angry. I mean, I really believe
in personal power, and I believe that
you should take the credit for the
hard work that you do, and I do, but
there's a way that you can also just
be smart and perpetuate the force
forward, by saying, "And we still
need these things to be done and thank
goodness for these people who did
this - men and women."

MS: YOU MENTIONED A COUPLE
OF ORGANIZATIONS LIKE THE THIRD WAVE
AND THE MS. FOUNDATION - ARE THERE
OTHER ORGANIZATIONS THAT YOU THINK
ARE DOING GREAT WORK IN THIS REGARD?
IF PERSON WANTS TO GET INVOLVED IN
WOMEN'S ISSUES - WHAT ORGANIZATIONS
WOULD YOU SUGGEST HE OR SHE CONTACT?KN: I guess the organizations
that I've gotten the most gratification
from were the little community grass
roots organizations that I joined,
so I guess it's just it's just a matter
of calling and seeing if there's a
women's center, a women's resource
center or if you're passionate about
some certain cause in the women's
movement.. I mean, the women's movement
is every single thing we do all day
long. The women's movement to me,
feminism to me, is animal rights.
It's all based in that respect for
life and equality and all that. So,
I would just say try to pinpoint what
you're most passionate about and just
get involved in something in the community.
I mean, of course, there are groups
like the Ms. Foundation and NOW and
- Oh, God, there are billions of great
women's organizations. The Ms. Foundation
is excellent and Voters for Choice
is really excellent too. And then
organizations like GLAAD and Human
Rights Campaign Fund and Pediatric
AIDS - that's amazing, what Elizabeth
Glaser did by bringing that into the
consciousness of the whole country.
And you know, as unfair as it is,
it's a lot easier for people to enter
the world of caring about AIDS if
they do it through something non-threatening
as children .. .

When people ask me, "Well, why are
you so into gay rights? If you don't
think you're going to need to get
an abortion - why do you care? Why
do you care so much about AIDS organizations?" Well, it's me - you know what I mean?
It's me. What's happening is me. And
it may happen to me, which is selfish,
and it does happen to my friends and
family and it can't be other. Animals
can't be other, people with AIDS can't
be other, women who need a choice
can't be other, gay people can't be
other, because once you start limiting
their rights, you limit mine. As a
woman, I'm a minority. And once other
people's rights start getting taken
away, it's a step towards taking mine
away. So, I have to, in my own self
interest, I have to try to protect
the rights of others, because as those
rights get chipped away, it's six
degrees of separation. You know? And
so, it's impossible for me to think
of injustice, oppression, discrimination
and non-freedom as not having to do
with me - it totally has to do with
me. Maybe I'm not sleeping with a
woman right now, but gay rights affects
me. And maybe I'm not HIV positive,
but AIDS completely affects me. So,
it's like sort of organically happened
that I've gotten involved with these
groups - I mean, there are tons more
issues that I care about, but because
of the business that I'm in and because
of the path that I've made and the
connections that I've made in my world
so far, this is where I've been led.
And I hope it's where I'm most effective.

Things being right affects us all.
Caring that we live in a right world,
in a just world, no matter what. You
know, you can't separate yourself
- no matter how much money you have,
no matter how famous you are, no matter
how religious you say you are, no
matter how many family members you
have, no matter how great a job you
have - you are affected by the injustices
of the world. You are no matter what.
You can't buy not having AIDS, you
know? And so, it is a choice I make,
but in the same breath it's not a
choice that I make. It's that I live
here.

MS: WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU GIVE
TO THE PUBLIC ON BECOMING ACTIVE?KN: think that one of the
reasons that people don't become politically
active is because they think they
won't be effective. They doubt the
work that they would do, they doubt
the knowledge that they have, they
think they have to know more or put
more time or money than they really
need to. So, I think the first thing
I would say is, explore what you're
passionate about and then have faith
that you can make a difference. I
always say, a little bit helps. You
don't have to become a full-time member
of an organization to be effective.
A letter helps. It's like, I know
some people who still eat meat, they
eat chicken or fish and so they feel
like they can't be an animal rights
activist - but everything helps. As
much as you can do helps - you don't
have to be perfect, you don't have
to be an expert, you don't have to
have hours and hours of free time
or tons and tons of money. You don't
have to go to workshops to know about
it. All you have to do is have faith
in your passion. And it really makes
your life a lot better. You feel like
you're making a difference.