I get that the cloak is a reward for the subscribers who stuck it out with the game, but when a heroic raider who quits at the end of T14 comes back for Siege and feels like they cant get into a heroic guild because they are months behind on a legendary it is super lame, why bother. just come back next expansion. Money blizz loses on and one less person to game with in game.

Not like that raider didn't know before quitting. I rerolled in 5.2 and I rerolled again in 5.4 and I have the cloak on both toons... not really a big deal. (granted I went back to the original toon). It's annoying to run those LFR, but you can catch up fast if you're not lazy.

Not like that raider didn't know before quitting. I rerolled in 5.2 and I rerolled again in 5.4 and I have the cloak on both toons... not really a big deal. (granted I went back to the original toon). It's annoying to run those LFR, but you can catch up fast if you're not lazy.

Re roll or re sub? There is no way you rolled a new toon in 5.4 and have the cloak already. Even 5.2 is doubtful unless you are the luckiest S.O.B around

Problem in lfr cloack is that you dont deserve it, when comparing to hc players who spend shitloads of more time in game. This is same in everyday life, those who spent more time on hobbies, school, work (depends) will get more of it.

People with the legendary cloak do deserve it, regardless of which path they took. They did the required work to obtain it, ergo, it's earned.

I think the only problem here is the people that seem to think other people earning the same PvE gear--regardless of method--somehow detract from their own experience. Total fallacy, a dash of ego and a sprinkling of childishness all thrown together. Voila.

Somebody I had never met said in chat that they won a pretty snazzy chestplate from Ordos today--a boss which is arguably an easy win, yet one I hardly ever have both the time and inclination to get a raid group together for. Do I feel that that person didn't deserve that chestplate? Heck no. They got in the group for it and did their part. How much does his getting that chestplate affect me? Not at all. Zero. Nada. Zilch. So why in the seven hells should I resent the fact that he got it? I shouldn't, and don't. Good for anyone who gets gear that betters their character in PvE. That can only help them be better in future groups.

Now if all of this crying was over PvP gear it'd at least be more understandable since you're in direct conflict with the other people gearing up. In PvE, however, there is no contest between the players short of who has the bigger epeen.

People with the legendary cloak do deserve it, regardless of which path they took. They did the required work to obtain it, ergo, it's earned.

I think the only problem here is the people that seem to think other people earning the same PvE gear--regardless of method--somehow detract from their own experience. Total fallacy, a dash of ego and a sprinkling of childishness all thrown together. Voila.

Somebody I had never met said in chat that they won a pretty snazzy chestplate from Ordos today--a boss which is arguably an easy win, yet one I hardly ever have both the time and inclination to get a raid group together for. Do I feel that that person didn't deserve that chestplate? Heck no. They got in the group for it and did their part. How much does his getting that chestplate affect me? Not at all. Zero. Nada. Zilch. So why in the seven hells should I resent the fact that he got it? I shouldn't, and don't. Good for anyone who gets gear that betters their character in PvE. That can only help them be better in future groups.

Now if all of this crying was over PvP gear it'd at least be more understandable since you're in direct conflict with the other people gearing up. In PvE, however, there is no contest between the players short of who has the bigger epeen.

The elite in Krassarang should have been a solo scenario. They didn't actually have the tech for that until 5.2 though, so probably why they didn't do it. It was out of place, the legendary quest was a personal thing the whole way through except that quest. Which is probably why they nerfed it. While I don't think EVERY legendary should be like this one was, I did like this format. Though the solo scenarios should have been more difficult. I was expecting something difficult and just walked in there and 1 shot each of them. Was kinda a let down And I wasn't decked out in heroic gear, I had quit heroic raiding the day we killed heroic jin'rohk so I had no heroic gear (well atleast from 5.2, that toon STILL has heroic gear from 5.0 lol).

My God, what a horrible creation. People seeing what they want? Thank God they tried to shy away from that. I know it pisses me off when I'm in an heroic raid, yet in the back of my head all I can think is 'some casual player is playing a heroic dungeon and not wiping.' -Vodkarn

Maybe if you stopped laughing at everything out of hand and attempted to understand the points other people are making, instead of arrogantly dismissing them and relying on weak strawman arguments (look it up) and hyperbole as the basis of your arguments, you might actually start adding some value to the thread.

The principle problem with your point of view is that you completely fail to show any understanding of how anyone else outside of your immediate circle of friends experiences the game. Whether you lack the capacity or will to do so is indeterminate, but either way all your argument and attitude is doing right now is undermining the very small amount of credibility you still have left.... lol?

Yes. Your particular strawman is the LFR raider who afks through every encounter for 50 instances to get the legendary pieces. In theory possible, in practice it simply doesn't exist. The only reason any real person would do this is to prove that it could be done, and as such it in no way represents the reality of 99.9% of the small portion of LFR raiders who actually managed to get their cloaks.

Originally Posted by RickJamesLich

but when I say the legendary is easy, I'm not kidding lol.

Easy is a relative term. Most people will not find the task easy even if you and your friends did. To me all I see in this statement is you boasting about your own capabilities

Originally Posted by RickJamesLich

I've never heard of anyone that said "I won't get the legendary because it's too hard". I've seen people say it's a long and tedious grind, but when I say it's too easy, I mean "anyone that wants it can get it as long as they do the grind".

Some people find it difficult to follow through on long and tedious grinds. It's that simple. Although the individual components may be easy, the collective effort can still be regarded as "hard". Secondly, people generally don't like to admit that they failed something because it was "too hard" because it acknowledges a certain element of accountability for their failure. Using the excuse that it was too long and tedious is a convenient excuse that saves face.

Originally Posted by RickJamesLich

The wrathion encounter IMO, gets way too much credit lol. Seriously, do you honestly know anyone that was stuck on that thing for a few weeks? How about for a few days? I'm figuring probably not.

Go look at the comments on wowhead.com. Note that in order to disprove you point, all you need to do is read the comments by people claiming it was hard. And if you read the comments dating back to June the picture becomes pretty clear.

As I have already said, for most fairly successful normal mode raiders, this shouldn't be too difficult. But then again what legendary ever has been? For the LFR hero, based on gear limitations alone, it was always going to be a tough ask to have it done before 5.4.

Originally Posted by RickJamesLich

And with ToT being around for 6 months, completing that portion of the quest in time is not "a straw man" lol.

Good thing that I never said anything to that effect. The strawman accusation is your assertion that all someone had to do was push a button to get their cloak, and your little comment about they may as well just send it to you in the mail.

Originally Posted by RickJamesLich

Man you sure like the word "straw man".

When it's appropriate to do so. Strawman arguments are pathetic, and if someone wants to use one, they deserve to be called out for it. Cuts straight to the chase.

Originally Posted by RickJamesLich

As for people cheesing it thru LFR, the encounters are designed for you to beat them. And if you don't, you get a buff that makes it easier the next time, essentially getting rewarded for doing bad.

Having the patience to sit through 50 LFR runs, especially if the participants are bad is enough to test anyone's patience. I have lost count of the number of times I've had to explain tactics in LFR, only to watch people mess up, or how many times I have been the difference between success and failure on an LFR boss (Durumu in particular comes to mind). And quite frankly, given how I never see legendary cloaks on the LFR raiders who are failing, I reckon those of us who actually got the cloak are the same people who are actually carrying LFR every time.

No it's not a matter of the task being impossible to achieve, but it does require an extraordinary amount of effort, commitment and perseverance, all of which are attributes worthy of a reward like the legendary cloak and generally beyond the practical capabilities of most LFR "raiders".

I agree that any legendary is easy to get after it's no longer current content, the problem here though is that this legendary *is* current content.

People say that LFR guys don't earn the cloak because in LFR, you get rewarded for failing on bosses with determination, and for the most part, the place is set up for you to beat. I guess this is the part where you and me are going to disagree lol. Based off the fact that LFR has little skill involved, to me it only makes sense that you shouldn't get handed a legendary.

And I totally agree, the grind was long, but I don't think a long grind should guarantee a legendary. There's all sorts of long grinds in the game, hell even getting to 90 would be considered a long grind by many. While a long grind should have a good reward, without challenges, handing out a legendary is just over doing it.

And think about your statement about the celestials... "you can't afk for it"... is that really saying a lot about it? lol, is that what this game has come to.... "well I had to take 15 minutes to kill a boss, which was a part of the very long grind in LFR, so I guess I should get the legendary".

Do you think someone should get a legendary for hitting 90? After all, that can take a while, and there's some parts of the leveling process that people might think are hard.

Can we agree that the issue isn't about gameplay, but rather about "exclusivity"? Therefore, the fact is, your major complaint isn't that casuals get the legendary, but rather they get it now. As opposed to months from now.

Every difficulty is designed to be beaten... that's the point, determination buff was to prevent people from bailing after a wipe. In order to avoid a wipe, you go over strats and mechanics and you still learn the battle. LFR isn't made of dedicated raiders. Those who run it would never learn/experience the full fight unless they were able to bring the boss down. If you're stuck on low DPS and can't push Lei Shen into transition phase, you're never going to learn it. Moreover, uping damage, health, and healing does nothing if you can't master mechanics. Standing in lightning whip will hurt. A lot.

If you don't think a long grind should guarantee a legendary then why aren't you complaining about Shadowmourne or Dragonwrath, or any other legendary that required you to collect X of Y in order to complete it? The only difference between this legendary and the old ones are:
a) individual progress
b) varying difficulty
- The individual progress allows you to obtain the legendary despite the guilds wishes. I addressed this issue in an earlier post, but basically, it saves on drama and QQ.
- Varying difficulty is the difference between LFR and Normal.

If the legendary was available on Normal and up, I could just buy all the VP gear that I earned from HScen, Dailies, 5H, etc, and then upgrade it. Tada, I can now faceroll the normal mode and get the legendary just as quickly, with as much easy as LFR. What's the difference? The fight's are harder? Sure, but I can outgear it and ignore mechanics anyways, so what's the point?

You can't afk for a fight - which is what you're claiming all LFRers do; that they don't work for a legendary. That's simply not true. Whether I spend 15 minutes on an LFR boss, or 20 minutes on a normal boss, the effort was still put in. Whether I did the boss on LFR or normal, the RNG for the grind was still just as long.

Your point about level 90 is irrelevant.

Bottom line: Your argument is simply that casuals get the legendary when its current, and your sole reason for this is because you want to be a special snowflake. Why wouldn't you want potential PUGers to have better gear?

Since the legendary could be obtained just as easily in normal as in LFR, your main point about lack of accomplishment is moot.

Or are you against getting the legendary in Normal mode? In which case, you are part of the 0.000001% of players that does Heroic modes in his/her sleep in which case, your view is completely skewed on what an average player should do.