I was completely convinced it was a part of an JJ interview, given how it was spread everywhere as a FACT.Also, I know we were collectively afraid of JJ commentary in regard to that.Instead of it - we got a prince!

Since I'm here when this has come up again, I want to state my opinion that I can see it in the subtext of the scene. That doesn't mean I'm an "Anti." I'm glad that it was not universally interpreted that way by the story group. Although if they don't see it at all it makes me wonder if they also don't see all the things I could view as attraction between Kylo and Rey. It's all so confusing. But also to say that anyone did see that in the subtext in the scene would be like saying Rey and Kylo are not related because I doubt they'd put any attraction between them in if they are related, since doing Luke/Leia again seems like a terrible idea (probably to them too).

My problem with all of this is about the "you know I can take whatever I want line" and how they must know where a lot of people's minds will go. This makes MM's response strange. It reminds me of how he doesn't understand shipping.

There is no purposeful r*** subtext in that scene. Yes, Rey is strapped to a chair and she is crying, but they are on opposite sides of a war and Kylo is trying to get the map. It has nothing to do with r***.

There IS sexual subtext however, and with Rey being strapped to a chair I can see how one might get the two confused. However, these are seperate elements. Kylo is standing oh so close to her staring at her lips, and Rey gives him the elevator eyes twice when he unmasks. Then cue the heavy breathing and the heartbeat in the back ground. And if we're talking about mind r***, well, she does it right back to him...

_________________"By the grace of your training, I will not be seduced."

If one is looking for a rape allegory in a family film, Maleficent is a more likely candidate.

Thing is, when someone sets out to portray an allegory with some specific action, as a rule they don't mix it up in the same film. In Maleficent, you don't see the villain cut off a male fairy's wings before he does it to Maleficent, or Maleficent cut off the villain's wings in return.

I saw it straight from the source last year too, and quickly realized there was nothing to see there. I haven't given it a second thought since. That, and JJ's DVD commentary says the exact opposite of what the woman claimed, so there's that too...

_________________"By the grace of your training, I will not be seduced."

I saw it straight from the source last year too, and quickly realized there was nothing to see there. I haven't given it a second thought since. That, and JJ's DVD commentary says the exact opposite of what the woman claimed, so there's that too...

@IoJovi wrote:There is no purposeful r*** subtext in that scene. Yes, Rey is strapped to a chair and she is crying, but they are on opposite sides of a war and Kylo is trying to get the map. It has nothing to do with r***.

There IS sexual subtext however, and with Rey being strapped to a chair I can see how one might get the two confused. However, these are seperate elements. Kylo is standing oh so close to her staring at her lips, and Rey gives him the elevator eyes twice when he unmasks. Then cue the heavy breathing and the heartbeat in the back ground. And if we're talking about mind r***, well, she does it right back to him...

@IoJoviI don't think it's known for certain there isn't a purposeful thought of that in the scene. If you're making the movie and you put a line like "I can take whatever I want" into that scene given that she's strapped down and he's in her personal space and the intimacy of the scene it's difficult for this to never occur to you. So at the very least I would think that people thought of this (and then they chose to leave it in). That doesn't mean that they meant the scene as a **** allegory. I never thought the scene was a statement about r***. And maybe I'm even communicating badly by using the word "subtext." Sexual attraction between them would definitely be subtext (has anyone asked THAT question - though I imagine Pablo and Matt wouldn't answer that question). But perhaps I mean more putting two things together in a context - which that may not be subtext. I don't know if there is a better word for it.

Anyway if the people who made TFA knew some people would ponder the scene in this way that doesn't mean that the scene is officially about r***, nor does it mean that liking Rey and Kylo = supporting r***, no matter how many jerks on the internet have used that bad argument to try to shame people out of their shipping interests.

@Acritiqua I always interpreted it as Kylo not understanding or being aware of his attraction to Rey, even though it is clearly there for the audience to see. I doubt he's had that attraction to anyone in his life, so it's very logical that he wouldn't recognize it for himself when it happens.

That is very, very different from him having fantasies of r***, even as subtext.

Sure you know I can take whatever I want could have that kind of subtext, but going back to my point, I highly doubt that's what he meant. If anything, I see it as peacocking on his part. He's making a show of his power to make up for his lack of confidence, which is very apparent in that scene, especially towards the end. And more to the point, this is Star Wars. This is Disney. Those allegories don't apply here and Matt confirmed that.

_________________"By the grace of your training, I will not be seduced."

@IoJovi wrote:@Acritiqua I always interpreted it as Kylo not understanding or being aware of his attraction to Rey, even though it is clearly there for the audience to see. I doubt he's had that attraction to anyone in his life, so it's very logical that he wouldn't recognize it for himself when it happens.

That is very, very different from him having fantasies of r***, even as subtext.

Sure you know I can take whatever I want could have that kind of subtext, but going back to my point, I highly doubt that's what he meant. If anything, I see it as peacocking on his part. He's making a show of his power to make up for his lack of confidence, which is very apparent in that scene, especially towards the end. And more to the point, this is Star Wars. This is Disney. Those allegories don't apply here and Matt confirmed that.

@IoJovi wrote:@Acritiqua I always interpreted it as Kylo not understanding or being aware of his attraction to Rey, even though it is clearly there for the audience to see. I doubt he's had that attraction to anyone in his life, so it's very logical that he wouldn't recognize it for himself when it happens.

That is very, very different from him having fantasies of r***, even as subtext.

I don't think Kylo was fantasizing about r****** Rey. I think that idea is ridiculous. And again, I don't think it's an allegory.

LOL!!! That reminds me of 80s American sitcoms. When two characters kissed there would be "laugh track" and/or studio audience reaction with all these whistles and "oooohhhs". The porgs will be like, "Awwww, he's making his move now." LOL!