Especially since somehow every final offer and every take it or leave it offer has gotten better with time. I don't believe that deadline either. If the NHL hadn't established itself as being a completely untrustworthy negotiator, we wouldn't be in this position.

Eh, they put this one (the drop-dead date) in writing. It's a little different than Bettman screaming up and down at a press conference when you actually have it in official documents. Bettman knows the only thing that's going to make Fehr negotiate is a deadline. Plus they came out with their most comprehensive CBA yet...300 pages is a little different than Fehr's napkin proposal. This has got to be the final push.

They're not going to have a 28-game season like they would have in '04-05, the only reason they left the date so long then was because it was uncharted territory to cancel an entire season. Plus there's no precedent for having a sub-48 game season, they're not obligated to stretch it out to mid-February.

Plus the final showdown date sort of 'has' to be soon between the DOI and the players' response to the owners' suit deadlines coming up too.

Edited by NJDevs4978, 29 December 2012 - 01:07 PM.

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"The Devils have high standards, that's the difference. We have a standard to live up to every year, and a couple of teams in our area don't have the standards we do." - Pat Burns

The New Jersey Devils win Stanley Cups everywhere:-NHL record for most road wins in the playoffs - 10-1 in '95 and 10-2 in '00-NHL record for most home wins in the playoffs - 12-1 in '03

Eh, they put this one (the drop-dead date) in writing. It's a little different than Bettman screaming up and down at a press conference when you actually have it in official documents. Bettman knows the only thing that's going to make Fehr negotiate is a deadline. Plus they came out with their most comprehensive CBA yet...300 pages is a little different than Fehr's napkin proposal. This has got to be the final push.

I have seen nothing that indicates that the league has put anything in writing regarding when the season has to start. There's been 'anonymous sources' reported by TSN as saying that, but I don't find that credible at all.

Just because they threw together 300 pages doesn't mean it's a worthy proposal. Most of the stuff in there will be the same as the 2005 CBA. And again, early indications are that they have moved the needle .1% from their last offer. If they 'take it or leave it' on this one, it's going to be, again, leave it.

They're not going to have a 28-game season like they would have in '04-05, the only reason they left the date so long then was because it was uncharted territory to cancel an entire season. Plus there's no precedent for having a sub-48 game season, they're not obligated to stretch it out to mid-February.

I find neither of these things credible either. I'm not sure they will go to 28 - I wrote about why here - but 42? Why is 48 okay and 42 not okay? When you come up with a bunch of artificial deadlines for things and stamp your feet about lines in the sand, deadlines, 'take it or leave it', 'these things are now off the table' then they come back on, your positions are no longer believable.

Plus the final showdown date sort of 'has' to be soon between the DOI and the players' response to the owners' suit deadlines coming up too.

Who cares at this point?!? Well my nephew does, he wants hockey yesterday. I do not however.

I still like hockey and eventually something will get done (i don't see the whole season being cancelled). i hate the NHL and PA for this whole process but once the nhl does come back i'll watch every Devil game.

Lockout's don't bother me in the least bit. They are a necessary evil for both sides. Every future purchase I make will be based on future entertainment, nothing that happened in the past. All this kicking and screaming about not supporting the NHL is loony. You follow because you love the sport, not to be part of the business as a valued stakeholder.

"Swim against the tide, don't follow the group, stay away from the majority, seek out the fresh and new, stay away from the poseurs, and don't be a barnacle. Be original, be different, be passionate, be selfless and be free. Be a hockey fan."
--John Buccigross

Honestly, the system was out of balance and needed to be fixed. Ulitmately Hockey needs revenue sharing more than the other three major sports as it still needs to work extreemly hard to draw in markets such as Arizona.

I don't think anyone ever said that, but the owners have brought us to this point deliberately, threatening to cancel the season unless the players cave on every aspect, and refusing to negotiate on their offers. When you say 'take or leave it' and 'this is our best offer', you cannot possibly expect the other party to agree to it. With the owners expecting a full CBA response, there's no reason not to start throwing things in that the owners won't like to try to trade them for things the players actually want.

I don't think anyone ever said that, but the owners have brought us to this point deliberately, threatening to cancel the season unless the players cave on every aspect, and refusing to negotiate on their offers. When you say 'take or leave it' and 'this is our best offer', you cannot possibly expect the other party to agree to it. With the owners expecting a full CBA response, there's no reason not to start throwing things in that the owners won't like to try to trade them for things the players actually want.

I think the owners had to go this route to a certain degree. Just bringing in Fehr for the NHLPA was akin to a declaration of war and almost guraanteed a lockedout. Mulitple players have said the 43% starting offer was insulting but its a pretty basic negotiating tactic of splitting down the middle to get to 50/50. The players have a ligitimate gripe about the BS of huge contracts being signed when owners knew they were going to try to roll them back but it is what it is. At this point they both need to decide if they really want to loose making money this year all to piss and moan and probably end up back at the same point at some point in June/July.

I don't think anyone ever said that, but the owners have brought us to this point deliberately, threatening to cancel the season unless the players cave on every aspect, and refusing to negotiate on their offers. When you say 'take or leave it' and 'this is our best offer', you cannot possibly expect the other party to agree to it. With the owners expecting a full CBA response, there's no reason not to start throwing things in that the owners won't like to try to trade them for things the players actually want.

I think Fehr brought negotiations to this point. Fehr knew he wasn't going to get the best offer(ignoring wages lost, which is a huge thing that Fehr doesn't care about) until the season was on the line. Fehr's BS proposals and media grandstanding seem obviously designed to delay and derail negotiations and so here we are. The players probably would have made more money for themselves if they had hardcore negotiated a CBA around when the season was supposed to start, but the players, and so Fehr, want to emotionally win this negotiation and the actual $$$ being made or lost were inconsequential to those emotions.

IMO, The owners wanted a deal that would have left both sides with more money than whatever they will negotiate now. Fehr wanted this to be the situation because he sees it as getting the best deal for the NHLPA written, ignoring overall income to the players.

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Your unconditional rejection of violence makes you smugly think of yourselves as noble, as enlightened, but in reality it is nothing less than abject moral capitulation to evil. Unconditional rejection of self-defense, because you think its a supposed surrender to violence, leaves you no resort but begging for mercy or offering appeasement.

-Terry Goodkind

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