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I think Jablonsky should try to get onto a video game like Call of Duty or in the spirit of SOCOM (James Dooley<3)Would be very easy for to him to express himself. Would be a good ippurunity to create catchy melodic themes aka MW2.

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Sideshow Bob

2018-10-22 23:37:41

He did that with gears 2, 3 and Judgement

superultramegaa

2018-10-23 00:29:09

Yeah, and Transformers is basically in that same vein of music, it's been played out. I'd rather hear his melodic side, and see him work on animated movies. He seemed to want to in the first film music media interview, and I'd really like to hear that side from him again.

Sideshow Bob

2018-10-23 15:54:54

his suites for tf5 are melodic is just that in the movie they were chopped to Hell. The la la land cd has them. It’s great

Having actually seen the movie now - and loving it - I have to say the score works really well within the story. I really liked that they literally start the movie with one of the best bits from the score. I always love it when the music starts playing during the studio logos.

And in this case, the score fits the movie way better than I expected. Definitely a pleasant surprise.

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superultramegaa

2018-09-06 03:33:59

Eh, the "music works well for the movie" comment always feels like an excuse for these types of scores, no matter the composer. Sure, you can just put "creepy" ambient electronics as an entire horror movie score, and it will work fine in the film. But it will never work as well as a crafted orchestral score like most of Silence of the Lambs, Steve's own Nightmare on Elm Street, or Christopher Young's better works.

There have been years of action music like the original Die Hard that manage to have complicated and sophisticated tension writing through orchestra alone. Zimmer has made scores like Inception which utilize the bombast of an orchestra to create tension and emotional moments.

It takes a lot less thought and effort to make unpleasant noises, a ticking clock sound effect, and string ostinato underscore. Sure someone had to create the sound of electronics, but it's certainly not as taxing on the composer. Even then many of the sounds of this score sound like leftovers from TF4 and 5.

I like a lot of Steve's work, and he's a great f*** (joke), but I don't really buy his excuses for scores like this and Deepwater Horizon. I don't think electronic gobbledy-gook is the way to tension. It feels as soulless and machine driven as the computers used to make this music. Even a track like "Quintessa" managed to create wonderful tension and horror through the horns alone. The electronics almost felt like a crutch, and all that was needed was strings to substitute for the electronic parts, and to keep the tribal drums.

Edmund Meinerts

2018-09-06 11:05:12

Praising a score because it "works in the movie" feels like praising an actor for correctly delivering their lines. 99% of scores "work" on the most basic level. That should be the bare minimum we expect from a professional film composer. There's a huge difference between a functional score that "works", and an exceptional one that actually enhances and improves its film as well as maintaining musical value and resonance away from it. That's the spectrum on which we should be grading, IMO.

rockhound

2018-09-06 12:36:45

@Edmundi haven't seen the movie yet, but maybe steves score did that in the movie for Bayhem, what you are expecting from a really good score? i mean "works really well within the story" doesn't sound just like "basic level" for me.

@superultramegaasteve doesn't need an excuse for Deepwater Horizon, because director peter berg wanted the score exactly like you hear it in the movie.

mpolonest123

2018-09-06 16:05:11

I think this highlights the bigger issue with film music lately: the producers/directors constantly asking for the same stuff. Before it was ostinatos ala Batman Begins, now it’s minimalistic ambient/electronic sound design. I’ve only heard a portion of Skyscraper, and haven’t seen the film yet, so I won’t comment on this score.

The best example that comes to mind from this year is “Tomb Raider”. Here you have a film that gives the perfect opportunity to write a fun adventure score that can have some modern leanings (think Fury Road crossed with something more traditional). So what does the studio ask for? A largely sound design based score with minimalistic themes. And of course people always jump to blaming the composers for “not being able to write good music” when they did exactly what the job asked.

And of course every project is different, which is why I never had an issue with Deepwater Horizon or Dunkirk. Not every score needs to be 100% orchestral. But it does become an issue when you start hearing the same sounds repackaged for every other blockbuster. Especially when you have the opportunity to do something fun for a movie that is over-the-top anyways...

mpolonest123

2018-09-06 16:10:39

And I don’t necessarily agree with the argument that the music fits the film. Look at Transformers as an example. True, it could have worked with a largely electronic score and maybe 2-3 themes. But then we would not have gotten the amazing score we did, which blended orchestral/electronic with a number of amazing themes and ideas.

Cut to the movie Rampage from earlier this year. Imagine a massive TF styled score with power anthems, heroic themes, and badass action. What did we get? The reheated portions left over from the past few years. All for a movie that was ridiculous to begin with.

Bayhem

2018-09-06 16:47:09

Eh, the "music works well for the movie" comment always feels like an excuse for these types of scores, no matter the composer.====================

What is the actual point of a film score? Why are scores created in the first place? To always be compared to something else or the previous work by the composer.......or.......to actually successfully support the stuff happening on the screen? I think the answer is pretty obvious. There is nothing wrong whatsoever in saying that a score 'works well in the movie", simply because that is the goal of a film score. Electronic or not. To make scenes more effective, to elevate the emotional charge, to make the on-screen events more intense, more exciting, more emotional, etc.. Think of Star Wars, think of Lord of the Rings, think of Harry Potter, think of Transformers. I would argue that the music in those movies is as equally important as the lead characters.

It's not an excuse to say "it works well in the movie" because in most cases (granted, not all) when a score works well in the movie it also ends up being a nice listening experience on its own. Personally, I enjoyed the Skyscraper score IN the movie, and on its own.

================but I don't really buy his excuses for scores like this and Deepwater Horizon. I don't think electronic gobbledy-gook is the way to tension. It feels as soulless and machine driven as the computers used to make this music.================

You seem to very easily put the entire score in one box. Sure, there is *some* noisy, kinda random "electronic gobbledy-gook", but what about tracks like 'Will & Sarah', 'Georgia & Henry', 'Lucky Man' and 'Proper Motivation'? These are proper, melodic and very nicely done tracks. Electronic, yes, but still very good.

Even Deepwater, with all its sound design stuff, contains tracks that are truly great. Both in the movie and on its own. The thing is, we have to learn to separate things. You can't expect to enjoy every single track from a score. If, however, you have completely different expectations, then that's a different story. You obviously like horns and more "natural", orchestral sounds and you don't like electronics. Fair enough. But still, even with electronics you can create memorable music. I like orchestral stuff as much as the next guy, but on the other hand I ADORE Steve's 'Pain & Gain' score. I actually consider it to be one of his best works. Easily.

So at the end of the day it's all matter of personal preference.

Bayhem

2018-09-06 17:43:48

There's a huge difference between a functional score that "works", and an exceptional one that actually enhances and improves its film as well as maintaining musical value and resonance away from it.============

As I already said, the MAIN goal of a film score is to work well within the movie. Every composer will say that. That's the starting point. And not every score needs to be "exceptional". It's very easy for us to comment here and demand perfection. While in reality things are much more complicated. Some filmmakers - like Pete Berg - want the scores for their films to be more "ambient", more experimental. Same thing with Paul Greengrass and your favorite John Powell. Are Powell's scores for the Bourne movies "exceptional"? I don't think so. They're pretty much like Skyscraper. A lot of razzle-dazzle. Which is what Greengrass apparently wanted.

So at the end of the day we can't solely blame the composers. They just deliver what the filmmakers want. Some filmmakers are satisfied with just an "okay" score, others push for more. So as I always say: when you hear about an upcoming score from a composer you like, make sure to check who's the director of the movie.

Bayhem

2018-09-06 18:00:56

And of course people always jump to blaming the composers for “not being able to write good music” when they did exactly what the job asked.=============

My point exactly. People think that composers sit in one room and make all the decisions by themselves. I'm sure not even Hans does that. Not when you're working on a $200 million studio movie. Or any movie for that matter....

Edmund Meinerts

2018-09-06 18:07:50

John Powell's Bourne scores *are* exceptional, though. MILES beyond a forgettable score like Skyscraper. Supremacy in particular is one of THE great modern action scores from where I'm standing. So that comparison falls flat on its face for me.

What separates the great film composers from the merely good/functional ones is that even under difficult circumstances, even with limitations, even working with a director like Greengrass or Berg, they're able to produce something interesting. Powell has proven himself able to do that time and time again, even for a movie/director as "score-unfriendly" as Greengrass' United 93. Look at the difference between that and what Jackman (et al) wrote for Captain Phillips, or between Powell's Berg collaboration Hancock and your Battleships/Deepwater Horizons.

I never said a score had to be perfect for me to enjoy it or that I only see things in black and white. I'm not sure what in any of my statements gave you that impression. But I would have to STRONGLY object to the statement "not every score needs to be exceptional". I don't see why we should be happy with mediocrity, and while I don't necessarily blame just the composers for it - I know the circumstances, I know how Hollywood works, I know that e.g. Jablonsky (or Harry Gregson-Williams to name another example of a composer who I feel has remained below their potential) is capable of far more than he has shown in his career so far. But at the same time I see no reason to sugarcoat things. "It's the director's fault" is an explanation, but it's not an excuse, and it doesn't magically make the music any better than it is.

rockhound

2018-09-06 19:34:59

edmund, why do you think, jablonsky wouldn't have composed for Hancock something as interesting as powell did and why do you think, powell would have composed something better for Battleship or Deepwater Horizon than jablonsky? then you could also argue, that powell would have composed a much better score for The Kingdom than danny elfman did. do you really think that?

Bayhem

2018-09-06 19:43:25

John Powell's Bourne scores *are* exceptional, though. MILES beyond a forgettable score like Skyscraper. Supremacy in particular is one of THE great modern action scores from where I'm standing. So that comparison falls flat on its face for me.===================

I disagree. I don't claim Skyscraper to be a perfect score, not at all, but the Bourne scores are utterly forgettable, from where I stand. I can't even remember a standlone piece. Is the theme even popular, outside the Powell fanbase? Since we talk about "exceptional" scores, was it ever used for anything outside the movies?

Hell, how many people even mention the Bourne scores nowadays? Or the Green Zone score? Even here, people don't talk much about them.

I'm sorry, but for me the best Powell is D-Tox Powell. That is a score that really shines through. Millions and millions of times better than any Bourne score. The action bits are terrific, the emotional bits are even better. One of the best, if not the best Powell score, IMO. But the Bourne scores? No, just no. Random cues with no melodic connection, razzle-dazzle stuff.....pretty much exactly the type of stuff people complain about nowadays. Now, I don't hate these scores, and there are small bits that I actually enjoy, but they are faaaaaar from being "exceptional". IMO.

========What separates the great film composers from the merely good/functional ones is that even under difficult circumstances, even with limitations, even working with a director like Greengrass or Berg, they're able to produce something interesting.=======

Which Jablonsky IS doing. Even in his "weaker" scores there is always something cool and interesting to be found. There is a reason why he's one of the most talked about MV/RC composers.

=============But I would have to STRONGLY object to the statement "not every score needs to be exceptional". I don't see why we should be happy with mediocrity============

Now we enter the zone of "personal preferences and opinions". To you, a score like Skyscraper is forgettable. To me, it's totally fine. Certainly not one of my favorite Jablonsky scores, but still wayyyyy better and nuanced than, say, The Hurricane Heist.

============"It's the director's fault" is an explanation, but it's not an excuse, and it doesn't magically make the music any better than it is.===========

Then what do you suggest? For composers to march against directors? That's not how this business works. You know a lot about film music, more than me. But I know more about actual "filmmaking". And it's an insanely collaborative effort. You can't expect a composer to start changing the views of an established filmmaker like, say, James Cameron. No, you work to support HIS vision. It's HIS movie, not the composers'. The composer can, of course, suggest and provide ideas and cues. But the actual final call comes from the director. Clean and clear. So yes, "it's the director's fault" is a pretty good excuse. There is a reason why the Jablonsky scores for the Michael Bay movies are always so beloves and popular, while his scores for the Peter Berg movies are often criticized and certainly not as popular and beloved. Bay simply has a better taste in film scores than Berg. And you see that in the scores Steve provides for them.

mpolonest123

2018-09-06 20:05:15

As much fun as it discussing the scores, at the end of the day it all comes down to personal preference. True, studios and filmmakers should not be as influenced by temp-tracking, but if someone likes a score more power to them. I will happily admit that I enjoy something like “Battleship”, regardless of the overall opinion on that score. Likewise if someone told me they enjoy a score I hate, good for them.

And am I the only one who hates the term “guilty pleasure”? If someone enjoys something why should they feel bad or defensive about it?

Ds

2018-09-06 20:07:20

As much as I agree with Bayhem for the most part, I have to say that Powell's Bourne scores are also exceptional for me. As far as I can remember, they really started a trend, they were the first of their kinds, quite innovative scoring for action/thriller films. That was 10-15 years ago so I can be wrong, but that's always been my impression.

And I think I can safely answer some of Bayhem's questions: if Peter Berg had been pushing Powell to create something like Battleship, he probably would have walked the door :-p I don't know any of these composers in person, but from what I read, Jablonsky, Balfe and Zimmer (for instance) are the kind of very open-minded people who will do whatever they can to fulfill the director's demands. While others like (probably) Powell prefer to do what they love, and will resign if the director keeps pushing in another direction. It's the whole "entertainers" vs. "artists" thing.

superultramegaa

2018-09-06 20:58:10

I don't even understand why Jablonsky keeps falling into these kinds of scores anyway. Instruments and melody are his forte, you can see it in every score he's created.

What are the best parts of the Transformers scores that everyone loves? Optimus, Arrival to Earth, Autobots, The AllSpark, Matrix of Leadership, Infinite White, Sentinel Prime, Our Final Hope, Dinobot Charge, Decision, Seglass Ni Tonday, Sacrifice, and Merlin's Staff. All of which feature strong melodic content and the orchestra being the main feature/draw. There are exceptions, but even much of the famous battle tracks have mostly orchestra.

What scores were made by Jablonsky that even his critics would praise and appreciate? Steamboy, Your Highness, and TMNT 2 (which has more electronics but the orchestra is the highlight). These scores had a strong orchestral presence, melodic music, instrument variety (Steamboy and Your Highness), and rich thematic content. Even Transformers 5 had a much greater orchestral presence and was recognized for feeling more unique than the other TF scores by critics.

It almost makes me feel sorry for Jablonsky. He has this huge talent for composing, and is continuously squandering it on minimalist/sound design headache scores which, I'm sorry, he just can't pull off. Even in this one, you can still hear him trying desperately to express himself (whether he knows it or not), by still recording a full orchestra, and creating tracks like Georgia and Henry, and The Pearl.

superultramegaa

2018-09-06 21:03:26

And no, I don't have a problem with electronics in the right context. Zimmer has done a decent job with his soundscapes in Interstellar and TDK Trilogy. I have a problem when a composer is constantly forced into a genre he probably doesn't want to be in, and shouldn't be in, in the first place. For god's sake he got his first big project on Desperate Housewives! A show with a title card by Danny Elfman!

Edmund Meinerts

2018-09-07 01:40:18

Someone who thinks D-Tox is Powell's best score, now I've really seen it all...

Go back and listen to To the Roof, Berlin Foot Chase, Bim Bam Smash from Bourne Supremacy. That's masterful action writing, wound as tight as a Swiss watch. The structure is a thing of beauty. The balance between the orchestra, percussion and electronics holds up even 15 years later (whereas D-Tox sounds cheap, dated and 90s-ish despite being just two years older). "Is the theme even popular" - well, it must have struck a chord with the right people given that it ended up being on the temp for about a hundred modern thriller scores for the next decade.

D-Tox! I seriously can't get over that...

Mephariel

2018-09-07 07:44:31

I agree that a good score should enhance the movie, but I strongly disagree with the notion that a good score is one "maintaining musical value and resonance away from it." To me, that is something different all together. In fact, I have yet to hear a good explanation why a great film score has to be great outside of the film. I think a composer might try to make a score great outside of the films because it will give it lasting power and fanfare, but if the score is great in the movie, it has to be great. What else could it be?

In today's world, people focus way too much on film music as albums. A lot of times, albums do not represent the music in the film at all. For example, think Ready Player One from Silvestri is a 4 star score outside of the film. But once I watched the film, I can't give the score more than 3 stars. The music barely had any impact in the film. In fact, I barely noticed any of the themes or motifs in the film.

You use an actor as an example. Nobody cares about how an actor acts away from the film.

People need to understand that film music exists to serve the film, not to serve you.

Bayhem

2018-09-07 08:55:35

Someone who thinks D-Tox is Powell's best score, now I've really seen it all...============

Well, I guess it's as equally as surprising as someone claiming that Supremacy is one of the greatest modern action scores...

===============well, it must have struck a chord with the right people given that it ended up being on the temp for about a hundred modern thriller scores for the next decade.===============

Source please?

Jablonsky's work is known to be used by other filmmakers as temp all the time. The director of 'Keanu' hired Steve solely on the fact that he was a huge, huge fan of 'Pain & Gain' (who wouldn't be? It's an awesome score, start to finish). I imagine that the Bourne scores could be used as temp on action bits, but is there an actual emotional track from Bourne that's been heavily used as temp? I seriously doubt that. You can claim that the Bourne scores are good action scores, but in order to be "exceptional" they have to be much, much, much more than that. And IMO, they're not. They're not known for the emotion, they're only known for some of the action bits. That's it. Nothing else.

And that's certainly not enough to qualify them as "exceptional" scores.

=============Go back and listen to To the Roof, Berlin Foot Chase, Bim Bam Smash from Bourne Supremacy=============

I will. And while we're at it, you should go back and listen to 'Will & Sarah', 'Georgia & Henry', 'Lucky Man' and 'Proper Motivation' from the Skyscraper score. And then tell me with a straight face that they are 'not good'.

==========whereas D-Tox sounds cheap, dated and 90s-ish despite being just two years older==========

Cheap? Dated? And what's wrong with 90s sound? Wow, we really have COMPLETELY different views on film music. The fact that you ignore a truly memorable, melodic, powerful and beautiful score like D-Tox in favor of the razzle-dazzle Bourne scores is staggering to me. Do this experiment - Play in front of an ordinary person a tune from the D-Tox score and a tune from a Bourne score. I bet you $100 bucks that people will be more pleased by the D-Tox score. I'm absolutely, 100 percent certain. No one will care about Bourne. Because there is basically no emotion in the Bourne scores, no actual melody. No wonder you gave as examples only action tracks. Because there's pretty much nothing else in that score. Just razzle-dazzle.

==========D-Tox! I seriously can't get over that...=========

Same for me when you said Supremacy is one of the greatest modern action scores.

Bayhem

2018-09-07 09:11:14

What are the best parts of the Transformers scores that everyone loves? Optimus, Arrival to Earth, Autobots, The AllSpark, Matrix of Leadership, Infinite White, Sentinel Prime, Our Final Hope, Dinobot Charge, Decision, Seglass Ni Tonday, Sacrifice, and Merlin's Staff. All of which feature strong melodic content and the orchestra being the main feature/draw.=========================

In the All Access interview Steve acknowledged that he often has to do non-melodic stuff, especially on Peter Berg films. He didn't seem bothered by it, he clearly is a guy who is not forcing his views on the directors. Now, that doesn't mean he's a pushover, just that he understands the most important thing - he is there to serve the vision of the director.

So again, if people don't like a certain score they shouldn't just blame the composer. Things are much more complicated....

rockhound

2018-09-07 09:32:46

i also think, that The Bourne Supremacy is one of the best modern action scores ever. it is true, D-Tox has the better memorable theme. it is very beautiful, but Supremacy has the much better and especially the more intense action writing than D-Tox. These parts sound really dated in D-Tox, while Supremacy sounds still fresh. perfect mix of orchestra and electronics.

Bayhem

2018-09-07 09:43:56

if Peter Berg had been pushing Powell to create something like Battleship, he probably would have walked the door :-p I don't know any of these composers in person, but from what I read, Jablonsky, Balfe and Zimmer (for instance) are the kind of very open-minded people who will do whatever they can to fulfill the director's demands. While others like (probably) Powell prefer to do what they love, and will resign if the director keeps pushing in another direction.===============

I can see that happening with certain huge composers, but that's not the right way to do it. Considering the fact that the movie is not put together by the composer, but by the director. Especially when we talk about powerful directors like Spielberg, Cameron, Bay, Nolan, Burton, Zemeckis, Lucas, etc. You can't just walk out on those directors. They can fire you (lol), but walking out just because you don't like what the director wants is something that only someone as big as Hans or John Williams can do. And no offence to Powell, but he's not exactly Hans or Williams.

Again, the composer is there to support the director's vision. Not the other way around. So unless the director is truly crazy, constantly flip-flopping and not fit to properly put together a movie, I see no reason for the composer to just "walk out" on his/her own. But then again, what do I know, right? :) I'm actually curious now......I wonder how many composers have actually done that? Just walking out...

Bayhem

2018-09-07 10:08:40

I have yet to hear a good explanation why a great film score has to be great outside of the film. I think a composer might try to make a score great outside of the films because it will give it lasting power and fanfare, but if the score is great in the movie, it has to be great. What else could it be?

In today's world, people focus way too much on film music as albums. A lot of times, albums do not represent the music in the film at all. For example, think Ready Player One from Silvestri is a 4 star score outside of the film. But once I watched the film, I can't give the score more than 3 stars. The music barely had any impact in the film. In fact, I barely noticed any of the themes or motifs in the film.

You use an actor as an example. Nobody cares about how an actor acts away from the film.

People need to understand that film music exists to serve the film, not to serve you.

============

Exactly! Very well said.

That's my point as well. People forget that scores exist to serve the movie, first and foremost. Always been that way.

Edmund Meinerts

2018-09-07 10:33:47

The Bourne scores don't really focus too much on overwhelming emotion, they tend to be understated on that front. However, that's not to say there aren't some nice lower-key emotional tracks in there. The solo bassoon Powell uses throughout perfectly represents Jason's loneliness and search for identity, even if it's not really "beautiful" in a conventional way. I'd recommend listening to "Goa", "New Memories", "Funeral Pyre" and "Atonement" from Supremacy and "Thinking of Marie" and "Jason is Reborn" from Ultimatum (the other scores in the franchise aren't as good IMO) to get an overview of the better emotional cues from Bourne.

What really makes the Bourne scores great for me is that they are so distinctive. I've had several film score muggles say "hey, that's from Bourne" upon hearing me play tracks from them - both the action music and, in one case, the bassoon theme. I'm not so sure that would happen with D-Tox, and while yes, that has to do with the respective popularity/exposure of the films, I would definitely say the Bourne scores have a stronger identity (heh) than D-Tox does. D-Tox is typical 90s Media Ventures action with a bit of a Powell twist (sort of like Face/Off, which is a far superior score incidentally), and while it's a decent score with a few highlights especially in the quieter portions, it also doesn't really have a personality like the Bourne scores do.

Ds

2018-09-07 16:49:23

Bayhem, it seems that in the case of Kung Fu Panda 2, the director absolutely wanted to stick to the temptrack, John was bored by that and indeed walked the door, letting Lorne finish the work.

So yeah, it really seems Powell is handpicking projects to his liking and won't bother writing stuff he doesn't like.

This case is also quite a mystery because to me that's the best of the 3 Kung Fu Panda scores, by far :-p

OK I'll say again in a debatable way: Skyscraper is subpar effort on Jablonsky's part, HIGHLY derivative of Battleship. I would even say it's on par with his scores since Transformers 5, because he seems to have lost his mojo. Either that, or he's just always been good at one thing - Transformers scores. IS there anything wrong with that? Not really, but this time around I found Skyscraper to be less than those. And I'm really tired of "noise" or "sound design" soundtracks, where a good half of the music is just droning synth or whatever.

By the way, praising DTox to be great (praising anything these days) can also be taken as offensive...I'm just pointing out consistency and a double standard, since we're talking about deleting posts because they are taken as offensive. Meanwhile your good buddy Bayhem over here has trolled this site many a time before rudely knocking ("debating") other people for their opinions on a score.

First: you need to calm down and stop following every post I make here. You understand that? People here clearly don't like you and you have a long history of posting insults and angry rants.

Second: did you actually said that I am the one trolling???? Absolutely hilarious!! Please tell me you're joking. Show me ONE post of mine here that can be qualified as "trolling", buddy. Having a debate with people is not trolling. The only time I used harsh words is when I was replying to YOUR angry, insulting posts. It's all out there for people to see. So don't you dare accusing me of trolling, considering the fact that you are a person known for provoking and insulting others. Just go to the TF5 score comment section and look how many people rightfully blast you because of what you say. So again, calm down and don't stalk me here. I wouldn't even bother responding to the rest of your post. Because I know where this is going. And I would rather talk to other, more reasonable people. Have a nice day.

Bayhem

2018-09-10 10:03:00

Oh and D-Tox is a great score actually !===============

Nice, another fan :)

Bayhem

2018-09-10 10:08:16

=======================Bayhem, it seems that in the case of Kung Fu Panda 2, the director absolutely wanted to stick to the temptrack, John was bored by that and indeed walked the door, letting Lorne finish the work.

So yeah, it really seems Powell is handpicking projects to his liking and won't bother writing stuff he doesn't like.========================

Fair enough. Good for him actually. Apparently he's big enough in animation so he can afford to do that. I mean of course, he did How to Train Your Dragon, and that score alone gives him quite a bit of power. At least in the animation world. I don't know how it is in the live-action world...

Bayhem

2018-09-10 10:20:46

===========D-Tox is typical 90s Media Ventures action ===========

I respect your views on Bourne and your views on D-Tox. However, I honestly don't see how D-Tox is a "typical" MV/RC score. And even if it is, what's so bad about a "typical 90s MV/RC score"? I mean, we're all here because of that sound, from that decade. The 90s were the Golden Years for Hans and company. Yes, Nick Glennie Smith worked on D-Tox too, but the score is nothing like The Rock, Crimson Tide, Armageddon, Enemy of the State, etc. The sound is just different. It's a very distinctive Powell, post-MV/RC. I definitely see some similarities with Face/Off, but only during the more emotional bits. Aside from that, it's a score that really stands out on its own, at least in my opinion. Anyway, I don't want to change your opinion on that score. I just want for more people to listen to D-Tox, because that score deserves much more recognition.

superultramegaa

2018-09-11 22:30:28

For the record, Meta wasn't entirely wrong. Bayhem does seem very reactionary, and his elaborate responses can get annoying. No, I don't hate Bayhem for this, and don't think he's a troll but that doesn't mean his and Bayhem's argument needs to be deleted.

I know you say "this place isn't a democracy", but I also don't think it's fair to keep Bayhem's responses and delete Meta's just because Meta was harsher. At least be fair and just delete the argument altogether if you want to keep this place "civil".

How far is this going to go? What if it gets to a point where strongly disagreeing on a score is going to lead to deletion without question? What, is this going to become tumblr?

Bayhem

2018-09-12 09:03:17

superultramegaa, they did the right thing deleting everything. I would've done the same thing.

No one wants to have bickering and bitching in his/her site. It was pretty clear where this was going anyway. Every time this Meta person shows up things escalate. I hate trolling and people like him, and I engage them directly. I don't let then get away with their shit. As for some of my long comments being "annoying", according to you.....well, same goes for some of your comments too. Especially your complaints about electronic scores. But as you can see, I'm not attacking you for this. I'r rather have a civil debate.

Meta

2018-09-13 03:13:37

superultramegaa

Bingo.

Look, this guy comes in here all high-falutin' like he's got nothing better to do than argue your opinion on a particular score, as if it's going to change your mind and see things his way. Sounds like a control issue, to me.

He does this quite a lot on this site, and to be honest I find it annoying and a waste of my time, which is one reason why I don't frequent this place as much as I used to. If I don't like something, then I'll say I don't like it and move on. I don't need my opinion to be met with a wall of text - which I don't read, by the way. I mean look at this THREAD, it's embarrassing the amount of crap Bayhem writes in here.

Anyway, just came to say thanks for agreeing with me to an extent - for what its worth. And I also want to reiterate Jablonsky's efforts have been subpar of late - and this forgettable movie/score is one good example of this.

Oh and Michael Bay sucks huge donkey balls - in my opinion, of course. If you don't like that Bayhem, well, I really don't give a damn.

Good day to ya.

Bayhem

2018-09-18 09:36:06

Thanks for proving my point, Meta. Thank you. Just look at the comment he left, folks. It all speaks for itself. He simply can't contain himself. He always needs to cram something negative. Always. No exception.

I'm glad they didn't delete it. Let it stay here for all to see.

Oh, and by the way Meta, the way you tried to provoke me AGAIN, this time by trashing Bay, is just not working. Simply because Bay is so big and so successful with such a huge fanbase (fanbase, which includes dozens of other big-time directors as well) that I can just laugh at your attempts to trash and bash him. Also, I think I would agree with Steven Spielberg's opinion on Bay. You know, because he actually knows a thing or two about cinema.... Here's what Spielberg said over 10 years ago: "Michael (Bay) is one of the greatest action directors. He has the best eye in Hollywood."

it is true, D-Tox has the better memorable theme. it is very beautiful, but Supremacy has the much better and especially the more intense action writing than D-Tox. =================

The claim made by Edmund Meinerts is that the Bourne scores are "exceptional". But all I see here in the comments in relation to these scores is talk about the action tracks and the overall action writing. The action bits alone don't make a score "exceptional". Not even close. Where are the memorable emotional bits from Bourne? Who talks about them? No one.

A truly exceptional score is a score that successfuly combines all emotions. Not just action and excitement. That is why the first Transformers score became so huge and popular. Because people responded not only to the action bits, but they loved the emotional bits, the dramatic bits. Where are those parts in Bourne? Why people don't talk about them?

All I see is an action talk.....

Again, I don't hate the Bourne scores, I just don't agree with the notion that they are "exceptional" scores solely based on the opinion of the Powell fans that the action bits are good. That's not enough. It was never enough.

Look back on the most beloved and popular scores in film history. The truly exceptional ones. Are they like Bourne? No. They're not.

Brand new interview with Steve. It makes you appreciate this score even more: www.filmmusicmag.com/?p=18877

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superultramegaa

2018-07-12 14:23:14

How is it that the one time he goes in-depth about his writing process, it's for a score I didn't particularly care for? Why has he never gone this into detail about writing scores like Steamboy or the Transformers films?

rockhound

2018-07-12 14:45:47

because these scores are "typical hollywood scores" which don't need an explanation. but with Skyscraper and Deepwater Horizon, many filmmusic fans are wondering, why such an approach and not an orchestral "hollywood" one. nobody has to like that score, but there is for sure a reason behind that approach, which i can understand and accept.

superultramegaa

2018-07-12 15:48:01

Not even close. Most film music fans don't really care and are more interested how a composer comes up with a theme, what their inspirations are, and what they believe the theme truly represents in the story.

When I watch a composer interview, I am not primarily looking for their opinion on a director or why a score has an aesthetic, I want them to talk about how they wrote that one piece of music I really liked, and what it represents in a story.

This is why Howard Shore and John Williams interviews often end up being the best as they're talking about what most people want them to, not how the newest aesthetic is not conventional Hollywood even though these watered down, ticking clock, electronic sound design, ear bleeding, droning depressionsville scores are conventional Hollywood now because directors have a hard-on for whatever keeps the audience from looking at their cell phones and not actually thinking about or feeling anything.

Why do you think modern horror has resorted to the method of playing the loudest noise you can think of so people pretend something is scary, even though they'll forget they watched a scary clown come into frame and go back to Instagram to narcissist themselves to death? If you make something thought provoking and something attempting to push boundaries like the Babadook or The Witch people will either call it boring or laugh at it because it can't automatically be called scary because a loud noise didn't play in their ear-holes.

Yes, I have been watching Zero Punctuation lately I don't see what that has to do with anything.

My point is I don't see why this score, a mostly sound design filled, conventional, score with occasional bursts of emotion gets a really great interview out of Jablonsky, instead of Steamboy, a masterpiece of an action-adventure score, or Transformers, a masterpiece of an action movie score, both with a sophisticated array of themes and motifs that require more elaboration, rather than Skyscraper. Most of the ideas and explanations Jablonsky provided I had mostly figured out on my own because there was only a few easy to grasp themes, so I don't really see why this is the score he was chosen to elaborate on.

George

2018-07-12 17:58:54

What if we get these in-depth interviews because he knows it’s a bland sounding score so he almost has to defend the reason as “this is what fit the story, and what the director wanted,” etc. Last year with Dunkirk, we got some good interviews about the process of building that score because maybe Hans had to explain what he made it sound so mad to defend himself against the people upset with how annoying that score was to listen to. But then take the kung fu panda movies, or pirates, we don’t get these in depth interviews other than the bonus features on the DVD, maybe because they don’t need explained or “defended” because they work well on their own as pieces of music. Idk, just a thought.

MrZimmerFan

2018-07-12 19:15:04

For your knowledge, the guy who interviews Jablonsky is a soundtrack editor.

And one of the most importants, he has interview people like Marco Beltrami or Bear McCreary.

Bayhem

2018-07-13 09:03:32

superultramegaa, I get what you're saying. And I agree with most of it. You know what it's all about at the end of the day? The director! Clean and clear.

Steve works with a lot of young 'hip' directors, like the director of this movie and the director of Keanu. And whether we like it or not, you can't expect those directors to want what bigger and older directors like Mike Bay, Tony Scott, Jim Cameron want. I mean it's all there: look at the scores for the Bay movies, the Cameron movies, the Scott movies - they're pretty much all perfect. Melodic, powerful, very little sound design, etc. Why? Because those guys come from a different time. A time when sound design scores were almost non-existent. A time of great melodic scores with actual themes.

The younger directors tho, they are mostly influenced by the "new" sound design stuff. And they want that in their films. And composers oblige. Bottom line is this: Don't just focus on the composer. Focus on the director as well. Who's the director? As crazy as it sounds, that will tell you whether you gonna like the score or not.

Bayhem

2018-07-13 09:14:13

rockhound, you are really underestimating these great scores by calling them "typical hollywood scores". It's exactly the opposite actually - scores like Skyscraper (as much as I like it) can be called "typcal". While scores like Transformers are much, much more.

I mean, look how influential and popular the first Transformers score is? Same with the first Pirates score. The Armageddon score. The Gladiator score. The Titanic score. A "typical" score can't achieve that. As to why they spend more time talking about scores like Skyscraper? Answer: publicity push. These types of non-franchise movies need all the help they can get. So studios want even the composers to give a lot of interviews. You don't need that on a Transformers movie, or a Pirates movie, or a Marvel movie.

Bayhem

2018-07-13 12:28:20

George, in the case with Steve and Skyscraper I think it's all about the studio push for more aggressive marketing. This is the biggest (budget-wise) original movie of the year and the stakes are high. So clearly the studio wanted to use all players and to promote the movie as 'hard' as possible. That's why you have Steve up there giving interviews and being quite visible. Hell, he even put up the movie's poster as a wallpaper on his Twitter account. I don't think he's ever done that with his previous movies.

Whether he personally is proud of the score or not, only he knows that, but for my money all those interviews are a result of the studio pushing to make the movie more visible. Not Steve trying to "defend" the music.

Just finished listening to the score. In short - pretty damn good. Some usual distorted, harsh electronic sounds here and there, but there are a lot of pretty cool stuff as well. The second half of 'Proper Motivation' (1:45 onward) is one of my favorite bits from the entire score. Pure Jablonsky magic.

I also really like the subtle homage to Faltermeyer's 'Top Gun' score in the 'Will & Sarah' track.

'Georgia & Henry' and 'Lucky Man' are very beautiful, Rabin-style tracks that work great on their own.

'Hostage, Pt. 1' is a nice mix between Steve's own 'Pain & Gain' and 'Nightmare on Elm Street'.

Now, some people may not share my views on this score, but at least you have to agree that it delivers slightly more than 'Battleship'. More than 'The Last Witch Hunter'. It's also pure Jablonsky. He clearly had freedom to do his thing. Yes, would've been great to hear some powerful choir and vocal work (Steve is great at that), but then again this is not exactly the type of movie that requires choir work. I think the only track with a little bit of choir is 'The Pearl'.....

Well, just finished the score and... it's alright. It definitely shows that Jablonsky really understands emotional tracks, and those are the most solid parts of the score. "Will & Sarah" is a wonderful piece of music and "Welcome To Heaven" also contains a lot of solid atmosphere, utilizing the strings to their fullest effect.

Unfortunately, the action is definitely underwhelming. It's got the modern RCP problem of burying the orchestra in electronic sound design and focusing more on the rhythm instead of any kind of melody whatsoever. With the exception of "Chopper Ambush", I just couldn't find much to enjoy in them. They're simply unmemorable and very, very loud.

However "Reboot" and "Lucky Man" redeem the score at the end with an enjoyable action finale and Jablonsky's signature "victory" track, (as MrZimmerFan put it), is as fun as always. "The Pearls" is also a very enjoyable suite being a nice mix of atmosphere and emotional elements vaguely reminiscent of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory's ending string-work.

So yeah, the action is mostly a waste, and made only to serve the scenes they're in rather than evoke any emotion on their own, but the tracks where the score slows down and focuses on soft string, guitar, and electronic work are well worth the listen.

If that represents the score, (which I'm sure it does), looks like I may have to skip this one. Lot of sound design, diluted orchestra, and dull electronic/pop elements. I know some people will say "It's just one track", but it's not only the intro track, but a 7 minute long intro track.

There's no way the score's going to change much from this. Plus the fact that this score ends with a song, tells me it's going for a more Pain & Gain/TF4 vibe. Oh well, yet another disappointing career move from Jablonsky. Hopefully some day he'll attempt to go back to strong orchestral work.

Jeff

2018-07-05 03:01:35

I saw the film and this track is sadly the highlight of the score, don't expect anything more interesting than this.

Bayhem

2018-07-05 12:19:34

I saw the film and this track is sadly the highlight of the score, don't expect anything more interesting than this. ===============================

How about actually listening to the actual score album before making these "big" statements. Just a suggestion......

Bayhem

2018-07-05 12:26:17

superultramegaa,

Dude, WTF?? What's with these wild jumps to conclusion? You haven't seen the movie, you haven't heard the actual score album. Sure, feel free to not like it, but at least give it a proper chance. Listen to the whole damn thing.

I think your level of anticipation for this was so high that even the smallest negative thing on the topic will turn you off completely. That's not good. Don't let this kinda thing consume you.

superultramegaa

2018-07-05 16:46:02

Well, it's a 7 minute long intro track. Like "Sacrifice" it's supposed to get you prepared for what most of the score is going to be. So it's very unlikely the score's going to change much from that first track.

Of course I'll try to give the rest of the score a chance, but that track kinda tells me it's going to be Pain & Gain mixed with Deepwater Horizon. Neither score am I overly fond of.

Ds

2018-07-05 17:42:18

Pain & Gain is one of Steve’s finest scores imo, way above the pack of electronics driven ambient scores. If Skyscraper retains any of that, I’ll be happy.

Btw am I the only one to hear Dunkirk in the middle of that first track? :-o

mpolonest123

2018-07-05 18:03:47

Pain and Gain is a pretty solid score imo. Even Deepwater Horizon is effective in the context of the film. I have to admit I was hoping for more of a fun throwback score for Skyscraper, I’ll give the rest of the album a chance when it drops although I’m not really sold on this one cue.

MrZimmerFan

2018-07-05 18:16:27

If you expected something like Pain & Gain (which is enteraly electronic), no, this is not like that

There is electronics, yes, but not is in the type of Dunkirk, for example, there is orchestra (mostly there is brass and percussion, both real and synth), and there is a cool track, in the end (both Skyscraper and The Pearl are suites), Lucky Man, is the typical 'victory' Jablonsky track.

And Georgia & Henry is lovely with the strings.

Bayhem

2018-07-06 09:31:28

As far as I'm concerned, the Pain and Gain score is one of the best Jablonsky scores. I find myself listening to it even more than the Transformers power anthems. It's that good! The director of 'Keanu' hired Steve exactly because he was a big fan of Pain and Gain.

I don't see how a person can be negative about that score. But then again, it's all matter of opinion. We are all allowed to have our opinions.

MrZimmerFan

2018-07-06 10:38:45

Pain & Gain was good, but I prefer Ender's Game (maybe in most fan for the epic scores than an electronic driven one, but i like this kind of scores)

Bayhem

2018-07-08 00:03:03

Well, to be completely honest, Ender's Game was the only Jablonsky score I wasn't really interested in. Still haven't listened to the whole thing.

I'm just finishing the score and it's an okay. I gave 7/10 stars, but I really like Will & Sarah, and a few tracks because, I feel some of these tracks are emotional mostly. I was wondering about that director with Rawson Marshall Thurber should hire with Theodore Shapiro composer it's seem they work together in a few movies, but I can't imagine what it sounds like Theodore Shapiro's music for skyscraper movie. Also, I'm preferring with Peter Berg & Michael Bay is a better chemistry with Steve Jablonsky in action movies.

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Bayhem

2018-07-07 23:59:51

Clearly Steve delivers some of his best work when he works with Bay, but I have to say I was pleasantly surprised by Skyscraper. Much, much better score than, say, Steve's The Last Witch Hunter. At least in my opinion.

Thanks for sharing. Btw, I like the fact that we will see a physical release as well (couple of weeks after July 13).

MrZimmerFan

2018-06-22 14:43:04

Obviously, it's Milan.

Btw, the last track is a song by James N Commons

Bayhem

2018-06-23 20:35:00

Milan or not, it doesn't matter. Don't take anything for granted. Physical media is on its way out, BIG TIME. Unfortunately.

I would be the last person on planet Earth who would give up on physical media, but I can't ignore the facts - most people simply prefer digital over physical. That's why, to me, any news about an upcoming physical release of a score is surprising (and great).

I admire labels who still put out physical copies, but the complete, 100% transition to digital is just a matter of time. Blockbuster Video was just the start of it...Sadly.

As long as Steve knows to keep this score mostly melodic with little to no sound design, I'll probably be happy with it.

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Bayhem

2018-06-19 08:52:20

Steve is a very accommodating composer. So it's really up to the director's vision. With Bay, you know you gonna hear some of the best stuff Steve has to offer and that's because they share the same "musical ear".

When he's scoring Peter Berg movies, Steve often relies on sound design and his scores for those movies are not really melodic. The few exceptions aside, Berg likes sound design scores. And he likes to experiment A LOT (example: the MRI machine sound that was incorporated in the Battleship score. Bold choice!).

Where does the director of Skyscraper stand in all of this?

Personally, I think this score will be "in the middle". Little sound design there, little melodic cue over here.... : ) I don't expect power anthems, simply because - as big as the movie is - it's not "Michael Bay big". I do hope for a little choir work though. Steve is great with choir.

superultramegaa

2018-06-19 19:14:17

I know woodwinds, with few exception, have been completely abandoned by RCP, but man would it be nice if Steve fit woodwinds into the small scale family scenes. He's great with them, but for whatever reason he doesn't seem to be able to use them unless it's an animation, The Sims or IDEA specifically, or fantasy (even then The Last Witch Hunter had no woodwinds). They add so much to the soundscape and make any score so much richer.

I'm listening to the Lord of the Rings Trilogy again currently, and god, they'd be nothing without all of those flutes and clarinets. Even when the main instrument is brass or string, the addition of woodwinds is so cleverly implemented by Shore, and they not only blend, but they actively enhance the sound.

Of course I'd also love Steve to continue using choir. He even seems to be getting better with it, with Transformers 5's use of it resembling the Halo franchise in a number of ways. It would be a wonderful surprise though if he went back to woodwinds eventually. I'm definitely not of the belief that they can't be used in a modern day setting either (Silence of the Lambs and the Spider-Man scores use them particularly well).

Why I'm looking forward to this score? Aside from loving Steve's work (duh!) the young director of the movie (Rawson Thurber) is a Michael Bay fan and having Bay's main composer at hand I wouldn't be surprised if we end up with a nice throwback to the "Golden Years" of MV/RC.

Watching the trailer of Skyscraper, there are certainly scenes that would play GREAT with a classic MV/RC sound over them. Whatever the case though, I'm sure Steve will deliver.

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MrZimmerFan

2018-06-04 17:21:59

It is something like Geostorm, i'm happy

Bayhem

2018-06-07 10:30:40

Truth be told, I still haven't heard the Geostorm score. I've heard good things about it, how it's a nice throwback to the classic MV/RC sound, etc. I really have to check it out. Thanks for reminding me : )