Foreign leaders and elections

It is usually best if Presidents and Prime Ministers stay out of each other’s elections . In free societies media interviewers can ask foreign leaders to make comments and they do so if they wish.

There are two big differences between President Obama’s intervention in our referendum and President Trump’s remarks yesterday. President Obama was clearly encouraged to intervene by the UK government who were committed to Remain. They used the intervention to try to persuade voters, drawing attention to it as part of their case in the referendum. The UK government did not ask President Trump to make comments yesterday and is not planning to use his comments in their election campaign.

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103 Comments

I listened to the entire interview on LBC. According to Iain Dale, the come-back from listeners was entirely positive and he had to dig around for criticism. The President came over relaxed,warm, friendly and full of common sense. He obviously liked Nigel Farage and he went out of his way to praise Boris Johnson too. He obviously dislikes what Mr Corbyn stands for and he openly admitted that. But it didn’t seem to be personal.
I was heartened by the frank, friendly tone – and it is something which other interviewers have completely forgotten, interrupting, contradicting in a shrill voice and using shocked tones far too often.
The result is that most sensible politicians avoid the English media as much as they can which is a great pity. And it is why I listen to LBC.
Half an hour with the President! What a coup!

JR,
Suggest you watch Ann Widdecombe explain why she left the Tory party and how it has become common place to lie in parliament.

She makes the point Teresa May lied in public and parliament to say the U.K. Would not be bound by the EU customs union forever and produced selected legal advice to demonstrate the point. Parliament forced her to produce full legal advice which demonstrated the opposite. At what point should MPs and a PM be held to account when it was a clear blatant attempt to con parlaiment and the public? Bearing in mind her last speech in parliament about a con on the public not to accept referndum result?

To get foreign leaders to follow their low standards to scare UK citizens might be even worse. Why is Mayhab still in parlaiment and allowed to stand as an MP? Why is she not investigated for her dishonest Kitkat policy and what she said in Parliament? As Widdecombe it was always a cardinal rule not to lie, economic with the truth, embellish etc but not lie. Is she right? If so what is your party doing about it?

Indeed allowing the appalling Theresa May to stand is hugely damaging to the Conservative image she is dishonest, a remoaner and liar, was never a Conservative and took the party to 5th place and 9%. She is almost as appalling as the 21 traitors 10 of whom have even been allowed back in!

Trump needs to ramp up his support for the BP and his criticism of Marxist Labour if it plays well with working people in the north of England who are tired of being demonised by the London focused anti-Brexit bigots that populate the media, BBC and many of the political parties indulge in baiting Brexit voters

Working people need to be told in brutal terms exactly what Labour’s morphed into. If the Tories are not going to do this job with a brutal efficiency then maybe we should leave it to Trump do their job for them

We should ask Mr Trump his opinion. He isn’t exactly foreign is he! A guy up the road was said by my next door neighbour “He talks to Trump”. What he meant was I suppose he communicated with him , perhaps just reading stuff but Mr Trump could very well write back, you never know. I asked the guy and he watches all of his rallies. He is not a politico just likes him. I watch and listen to him too and I’m not a member of a political party. I’ve watched all his rallies from start to finish. I’m sorry but I don’t regard him as a foreigner. He’s American!

Anyone consulted a psychic about the Election? I thought I’d visit a site and just look to see what my star sign has under it for today ( I never did meet any of those women btw let alone have a romance at various times but I thought I would take a look-see ). It wouldn’t give me access unless I clicked on cookie-permission so companies could follow me all over the place. Why didn’t the site KNOW where I would go on the internet? I have lost faith.
I predict the Tories will win.

Yes indeed. St Obama started it, but when Trump does it? Predictable outcry.
Actually, a very candid talk between 2 friends.
Trump bashed both major party leaders without favour. Corbyn would be a disaster. Boris’ vassalage treaty was exposed as leaving us under EU control.
Trump stated the obvious. Namely that Farage and Johnson working together would be unstoppable. So why not? Hmmm……
Today No. 10 are waffling that their treaty DOES allow a trade deal. Show us this clause in it then. Simple!

It’s important to hear in the President’s own words the feelings of our most important ally. His ”interview” was unofficial, chatty and informative. If his opinion – which is the opinion of many of us here – is ignored, then that really doesn’t show much common sense. If all sensible calls for any sort of ‘alliance’ is ignored, risking a hung Parliament, then quite obviously people will assume that the Conservatives are willing to risk Brexit for the sake of a petulant personal stance, and therefore that their hearts are not with leaving the EU, no matter what their manifesto may say. And, after all is said and done, the Conservatives will then appear to be a Remain party at heart.

The difference, if I understand things correctly, is that Mr. Obama warned that
our vote to leave the EU would put us “at the back of the queue” as a
matter of administrative policy. In other words, America would choose to
make us a low priority for trade talks. Mr. Trump, on the other hand, explained
yesterday that Boris’ Deal gives the US no freedom in UK law to improve trade.

Footnote. The fact that the BBC have to broadcast a Youtube version of an LBC radio show to show an interview with the leader of the USA shows how far they have sunk, when the POTUS won’t even return their calls. Then again, England’s World Cup Final is on ITV.
Never mind, they still have Flog It, presumably a show about the May/Johnson dead horse WA.

I am sorry John this is by no means meant as a personal slight as I admire your stance but to re-instal the whip to so many remainers and try to sell us the May deal is the final straw for millions of voters.

Nothing would make me vote Conservative, I would rather “die in a ditch!” Brexit party now, all the way to Downing street, if the Conservatives can’t make a pact for the sake of our country and drop the “reheated May microwave deal” then they are simply not fit to govern.

Oh!
Can we be sure about that?
The two great men seem to be in regular contact?
Direct intervention in a democratic vote is a bit different from stating the blindingly obvious. Surely?
Some are brought in when electoral support is needed…. but not others!!
Strange…unless the support is not really wanted??
Rather risk communism?

They had no problem when Verhofstadt sided with the Libdems and sang their praises. Some of the recent headlines….’ ‘I’m a Lib Dem’ declares EU’s Brexit co-ordinator Guy Verhofstadt’ …….’Guy Verhofstadt to knock on doors for Lib Dems in’ …As usual the Tories are too cowed to fight their corner, they can’t be bothered to criticise other political parties, and then apologise for their existence when the same criticism is directed at them.

I did not object to President Obama saying things during our referendum, what I did object to, however, was Remain bitching about an alleged £70k overspend by Leave after they had enjoyed the benefit of a multi-million pounds taxpayer funded PotUS visit to their advantage – on top of the £10 m taxpayer funded leaflet campaign.

Such sore losers they were they really squealed that the price of an up-and-over garage in Penge and an advert on the side of a bus could offset all the priceless support they had on the sly.

(They lost because the federalist’s version of democracy replaces the population rather than the politicians and a still-enfranchised people rumbled it.)

Sir John,
President Trump was clearly encouraged to intervene by Nigel Farage for Brexit Party electoral purposes so it seems to me there was little difference between the two. Trump had clearly not read the WA or the Political Declaration and had nothing but vacuous, unsupported platitudes to say. Had he been interviewed by an independent media personality and questioned on the substance of Boris’s agreement he would have floundered.

Good or bad comments now have a highway for every man and his dog to have his/her say and the only damage it can cause if the really outrageous comments are not taken to task.
The government it is perceived did precious little in combating the constant stream of news churned out by the media when trying to get Brexit through parliament or even put a more positive point of view. Our host was one of the very few who did at least to try and bring common sense and reason to the debate IMHO

Well, I’m sorry that people are still obsessing about special trade deals, whether that is the present special Single Market trade deal that we have with the other EU countries or putative new special trade deals we could have with other countries around the world such as the US, none of which special trade deals have or would have anything like the economic impact that is regularly implied.

The important thing to understand and remember is that on average the UK economy grows naturally by about 2.5% a year, and small one-off gains or losses from changes to international trade arrangements are of little economic significance in the long term and should not be allowed to determine our long term political destiny.

I agree, outsiders should not interfere in our elections ‘or’ referendums. And neither should we favour prospective candidates like we did with, President Macron when he was campaigning and was invited into Number 10 whilst ignoring all the other candidates.

And remember. Her Majesty’s Government governs for all the UK and should not use its position to invite others in what at the time of the referendum was between two opposing campaign groups. It was bad enough using £9m of our money for Remain.

The political and media class tell us every day and across the world, including in the USA, how awful President Trump is. They told us before the US election and all through it, and ever since. They seem to think they have the power to change who is President in the USA and they devote a great deal of time, bigotry, and nastiness to trying to achieve this. All of them, from John Bercow to Sadiq Khan, from Emily Maitlis to James O’Brien.

How can they, with a straight face, now tell us the President isn’t allowed a politely expressed preference for who leads here?

Although Trump probably shouldn’t get involved, it’s notable how the lefties squeal when someone does it to them but they have nothing to say when various supposedly neutral parties get involved on their side – including the BoE governor, the squeaker, the Electoral Commission and many others (including a bunch of entertainer types whose credentials in these matters are at best zero and probably a net negative).

And – he’s right.

As is JR to say that Obama was pushed whereas Trump jumped of his own volition.

With respect, Boris could have unshackled himself upon becoming PM by moving for a GE. Everyone would have voted in favour. Then he could have stood on a clean break ticket and, more than likely, secured a healthy majority. That he chose not do so and subsequently secured a ‘great deal’ that has, broadly, united his party, in the teeth of fierce opposition from other parties, whilst ramping up the ‘people vs Parliament’ rhetoric, points to a strategy of a united Tory party selling BRINO in a shiny, populist wrapper.

Also, Boris achieved no meaningful concessions from the EU. The EU were more than happy for Boris to throw the DUP under the bus. The backstop has gone, but only because, with N. Ireland condemned to vassalage there is no need for one! Further, there might now be a theoretical route to freedom from the EU’s orbit with the WA, but the EU have shrewdly calculated that neither a Tory nor Labour government will take that path, instead preferring the continuation of an intimate economic relationship with the EU that severely undermines the possibilities of an ‘independent’ trade policy. And just for good measure, the text of the WA sets the context for the changes made to the political declaration, making what is aspired to in the PD far more difficult given the legal framework the WA seeks to establish.

I agree with you that elections in one country are no business of politicians in another and comments from them are unhelpful. I equally feel though, that it is misguided of them to comment even if asked to by one side or another in the country where the election is taking place. The fact that one of the parties to an election lacks the confidence to get its message across without external endorsement says a lot about the inadequacy of that party and its case, and an external politician does his own credibility no good if he obliges with a supporting comment. I was always surprised that Obama was happy to do this, but not so surprised that the Cameron/Osbourne Remain team felt the need to ask for it.
If Farage and Johnson could find a way to sink their differences it wouod be excellent, but I very much doubt that Mr Trump’s intervention has made that any more likely to happen.

Well now Nigel Farage has spelt it out with great clarity. The route to a clean Brexit that you have always advocated is an alliance between your party and his to achieve the maximum number of Leave minded MPs in the next Parliament.

Nigel slayed WA2 on the grounds that it was son of WA1. You have not applied your analytical brain to WA2 as you did with WA1, perhaps you should before the Brexit Party does as was promised today.

Not taking on board what was said today and retreating into the shell of the usual party politics is not going to produce the clean Brexit you have constantly promoted. The future of the UK is at stake, party in such circumstances is irrelevant.

Reply I did write and speak about the latest WA and advocated going straight for an FTA

Sir John, indeed you did, and as you made very clear, you did not vote for it. As such, I was interested to hear you grievously misrepresented by not one but two so-called Brexiteers (I won’t name them; readers of this blog will know who they are), both of whom stated that you had in fact voted for it, in an attempt to discredit Nigel Farage and his party. One of the two is a known numpty, but the other I’d have expected more from, even if he has very foolishly thrown his lot in with BJ.

I think that those wishing for an accomodation between the Conservatives and the Brexit party – including Farage himself – need to recognise that it simply isn’t going to happen. As Farage said, there is only one Brexit party, and of course the clue’s in the name.

At least Farage is offering cooperation, but on a sound basis of offering true Brexit not BRINO. It is Boris and Tory MPs including some from the ERG who are snubbing him, and in the process appearing both arrogant, entitled, and out of touch with the electorate. Foolish. Why does Boris not want a victory for the united right, a victory that would be decisive with a good majority, and which most importantly would provide the means to deliver true Brexit? It is looking suspiciously like he does not really want Brexit, but rather this fudge which would not result in a free and independent UK but would provide a very good launch pad for getting back into the EU in the not too distant future.

Simeon, I don’t know who you consider closer to the Brexit Party than the Conservatives but I would point out that I have voted Tory throughout my life.

Politics is the art of the possible. If the Conservatives think they can succeed by carrying forward WA2 and by ignoring genuine support for a clean Brexit they are deluding themselves. They put themselves in the position of Wellington under serious pressure but telling the Prussians to march home because he wanted to defeat Napoleon all on his own. The Conservatives have little support in the North of England, it is not in the DNA of the people there to vote Tory. They are however lsrgely Leave, and too canny to take on board the Marxist claptrap coming from Corbyn. They supported the Brexit Party as a solution during the EU election and could again in the coming GE. It seems arrogant to me that the Conservative hierachy should disdain this offer of support. Equally, how many Conservative candidates in marginal seats can take on the Brexit Party, Corbyn, the Lib/Dems and the Greens. My own MP, a remainer government minister in a Leave constituency with a 2000 plus majority is highly vulnerable. To accept such voting dilution is politically suicidal I would suggest, particularly as the Brexit Party like the Prussians are on side.

This is not a time for party loyalty do or die, the future of the UK is at stake. As in 1940 we need all the help we can get. An accommodation with the Brexit Party is just that, disdain it at your peril.

Having read your views over a sustained period I can see that your political instincts are sound and your heart in the right place. Your assessment of the Conservative party’s predicament is correct – particularly when you suggest the Tories are going to be squeezed from all sides.

I was a little confused by your last para. Just to be clear, I’m coming from the point of sympathy for the Brexit party and, I’m afraid, great hostility towards the Tories, not just on Brexit, but also on their continued failure to deliver good governance. My distrust of the Tories is such that I actually hope there is no accomodation with the Brexit party, because I believe that the risk of BJ selling them out, as he has the DUP and, to an extent, the ERG (though with the latter it’s more a case of him playing them for fools, and them now having to swing behind BJ to keep face), is far too great.

To conclude, I think that there is a yawning chasm between the two party’s present policies on Brexit, and I think it is abundantly clear the Tories will not be changing theirs. Therefore, I don’t think it makes sense to talk about the Conservatives as being closer to the Brexit party than anyone else. Others have made this point also; I’d rather see Corbyn in no 10 and Brexit reversed than BJ there ramming through an appalling settlement with the EU, and governing for another five years, further damaging the country and, in the layman’s view, further damaging rightish politics.

I’m a pessimist, and in the short term I believe that Brexit hasbeen lost by the Tories. My hope is that at some point the case for Brexit can be remade more powerfully and comprehensively. This means not only explaining why it should happen, but also how. I hope lessons will be learned.

I see no difference between Obama’s intervention and President Trump’s. Let’s be honest, the UK Parliament has decided to throw away the rule book so why shouldn’t others? The political world has changed, probably not for the better, but it’s no holds barred nowadays whether we are talking domestic or international politics. You only have to look at the current actions of the House of Representatives to see that.

It is important the electorate know what Trump says as he is being misquoted in our election by the two main leaders. Corbyn says Trump will take over the NHS – Trump says no. Boris says we will get a deal with the US – Trump says not with that surrender treaty. That is not Trump interfering in our politics – he is being lied about in our election.

That is routine reporting, it seems, with our media and certain MPs. It is not only the H of C that needs a complete overhaul, but also our media and the BBC. The media is being used as a tool of the establishment rather than carrying out sound investigative reporting and scrutiny of issues. Very similar to the USA.

Let us hope the Conservative Party do some maths and think again. A leave alliance is essentially to win clearly and to go a for a real Brexit. Anything else risks another mess in Parliament or even Corbyn. The Boris deal was perhaps the best he could get, given the Benn surrender act, the appalling Speaker and the lack of any majority but it is not Brexit and not ‘oven ready’. It is in fact an appalling deal and not Brexit at all.

A far better clean leave can be arranged post the election if it is won well, but a leave alliance is essential. There are 200+ seats that the Conservatives can never win but Brexit could well do. So nothing to lose from it at all from a Brexit Alliance.

‘If you genuinely want to work with another political party, you don’t go on live national television and call them liars… If that was meant to be to be an olive branch, Nigel completely cocked it up.’ said Mark Francois on Nigel Farage’s proposal for a ‘Leave alliance’.

Nigel is right Mark Francois is wrong. You need to do the voting sums mate and do not assume there will be no remainer deals! With a decent leave majority a far better deal than the Boris can be attained (after all no deal is clearly better anyway).

First of all Sir, I am so sad to see that Brexit has been Delayed another three months: Boris Johnson said that he would rather “Die in a Ditch” than ask for a Brexit Delay. All of this feeds a narrative that political leaders made bold promises backed up by big “Statements for Effect” – but when push comes to shove and delivering what is promised risks their career they fold and break their promises!

People fought and gave their lives for the Democracy we have enjoyed hitherto, yet our principled Brexit Prime Minister chooses Career (and staying out of Jail) over Principle!

However, because Boris Johnson has broken the “Brexit on 31st October” Promise a good half of Brexit supporters will not trust him nor now believe a word that he says: They will vote for the Brexit Party. It does not matter that Remainer MPs passed a law to delay Brexit- the Prime Minister will be seen to have failed!

President Donald Trump is right: Ditch the Deal, offer a Canada style FTA but leave the EU on WTO terms if the EU reject this. And yes, do a deal with the Brexit Party.

Right now, what matters is making the next Parliament “More Brexity”, as it were: Delivery of the result of the 2016 EU Referendum comes down to that central issue of Trust- and it must be a True Brexit. Subsequent to that the Conservatives will then be rewarded by the electorate and the pro-EU Left vanquished.

So Boris Johnson should pull 150 Conservative candidates from unwinnable Seats in urban northern England, the West Midlands and South Wales – whilst encouraging all Leave voters to vote for the Brexit Party in such Seats. Meanwhile, the Brexit Party could be encouraged to pull their Candidates from those Seats in London, Scotland and the South that voted “Remain”.

This would guarantee that 60 Seats that Conservatives could never win went to the Brexit Party (since the Brexit Party would be the only real Brexit choice in those Brexity Seats); The Conservatives could hold onto over 250 Seats elsewhere. Add the DUPs ten Seats (plus a few Brexity Labour MPs) and there’s enough MPs for a Brexit Coalition Government to see Brexit through and resist Remainer shenanigans.

The Conservatives’ Online Campaign infrastructure and number of boots on the ground are much exceeded by Labour’s – who may well catch up and draw level in the polls during the course of the Election Campaign (with the help of Memes and Lefty pop songs like Captain Ska’s “Liar Liar” (remix)): This is what happened in 2017, but it is good to learn that lesson now and be prepare for the worst – that’s how to guarantee Brexit winning!

You do not have long to act, and to persuade Boris Johnson of the merits of a pact with the Brexit Party.

After reading Mark Francois message on facebook today saying that the ERG fully support the Withdrawal Agreement Treaty (TMs revised deal) I can no longer endorse nor support the Tory Party.

With good conscience I have to support the Brexit Party, the only party that satisfies the conditions and result of the referendum as set out on the government information leaflet and ballot paper….that’s democracy

I agree, gc. Also Mark Francois attacked Farage today wrongfully in my view, and in a most unpleasant way. I think these MPs are either acting very defensively or they are very nervous/unhappy about their current full blooded support for Boris’s deal, which they know all too well does not represent Brexit. Hence they are lashing out and trying to smear Farage.

Indeed it is a mistaken approach. The Boris deal is May’s with fig leaves it is not Brexit it is worse than no deal and very expensive hand cuffs. Why stick with it when you have a majority for the asking?

Though no US president would say it, the UK with all our security, intelligence, and NATO ties to the USA is possibly more important than many of the individual states of the USA. We are also a prominent member of the anglosphere and a potentially good customer of and supplier to the USA. The president can therefore be forgiven for taking an interest in our political future. If he saw or heard the Corbyn entry into the election he could be excused from being alarmed.

Obama’s intervention in our referendum was threatening, when asked about a trade deal with the USA he said “Get to the back of the que!”.
After the result Donald Trump said “it won’t make jack shit difference”. As president, A trade deal can be done as soon as we remove the EU hand cuffs.

Why, if Boris can hold his nose & do a terrible deal with the EU, can he not do a deal with Farage and win a clear majority at the election?

As he appears unwilling to deal with Farage, can I conclude that Boris is really a remainer & wants the UK tied to the EU for many more tortuous years until we all get fed up and beg to rejoin?

The problem Boris has is that a lot of Tory seats are marginal and the BXP could split the vote away from the Tories.

I hate to say this but I prefer Corbyn getting into power rather than Boris’ treaty. At least with Corbyn he can be voted out at the next election. Overturning an international treaty is much more difficult if not impossible – see Spain and the Treaty of Utrecht.

If Boris really does mean no alliance or understanding with the Brexit Party then he may as well call off the Election and save money and time for all concerned. “Nothing has changed .Nothing has changed” to quote Mrs May. But in the new context post-Election he could very well have less Tory MPs. His deal will not be worth the paper it’s written on and he probably will not have any mandate to be PM except if he has luck, in technical terms.
Tories will not beat Labour candidates in the main. The LibDems will not get as many MPs as they wish.Tories will not exist in Scotland and probably not in Wales. The DUP will hold their own.
It is up to him now. There is still time. Brexit or no Brexit?

Quite right, CS. Me too. The more time the public has to scrutinise the deal the worse it will be for the Cons. I expect there to be some very significant challenges to Boris’s claims about his deal representing true Brexit, both from the Brexit Party but also from further legal sources.

Johnson’s WA with the EU is a gross deception on the British people. The UK will be expected to adhere to all EU rules and regulations but more offensively the UK still falls under the jurisdiction of the ECJ. That is unacceptable.

Can someone please tell this faux Tory PM that the BP and its supporters are not the enemy. The enemy is Marxist Labour and their gangster thuggery movement

Johnson mustn’t fall into the trap of thinking that the fear of a Marxist government led by Corbyn will deter them from voting BP. Maybe he doesn’t understand how traditional working folk in the North operate. We don’t do fear Johnson.

Today I read a Guardian hatchet job on Boris quoting an interview with Juncker. The man was allowed to say that Boris lied “Boris Johnson told “so many lies” during the EU referendum campaign, the outgoing president of the European commission, Jean-Claude Juncker, has said.” Rankin in Guardian

It was simply left there – no “which particular lies’ give me the two biggest. Then these should be put to Boris to answer to deliver a fair article. I’m just sick of news in this Country. I don’t watch tv news any longer C4 news just sickens me.

About John Redwood

John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.