I think the thread is about open era only.Hoad is an all time great but did little since 68 on...

No no, it include any player of the the past whom range of achievement compare from Hewitt to Becker. As you say, Hoad is a all time great for a lot of people so he isn't really a part of this discussion.

Most knowledgable critics rate Hoad in the top ten.
Gonzales, Rosewall, Laver, who are pretty knowledgable, rate him number one.
What a joke.

He'd be top 10 if critics made a list 30-40 years ago. With all the great players of the era open era in mind, he finds no place in any serious top 10 list. Djokovic already has surpassed him, and he himself is behind guys like Agassi, Connors, Lendl, McEnroe, etc.

He'd be top 10 if critics made a list 30-40 years ago. With all the great players of the era open era in mind, he finds no place in any serious top 10 list. Djokovic already has surpassed him, and he himself is behind guys like Agassi, Connors, Lendl, McEnroe, etc.

More humour, I see.

30-40 years ago?
Rosewall listed him number one in 1962, but also in 2010.
Gonzales listed him number one in 1970, but also in 1995.
Laver listed him number one in 2012.
Kramer rated him in the top five in 2007.
Buchholz rated him number one in 2007.
Krishnan rated him number one in 2007.

You seriously going to find a place for this guy in the top 10 with following candidates in mind? Federer, Laver, Sampras, Gonzales, Tilden, Borg, Rosewall, Nadal, Lendl, Connors, Agassi, McEnroe, Newcombe, Perry, Emerson, Lacoste, Budge, Djokovic? Becker? Edberg? Wilander? Come on now even top 15 is really pushing it. I've read your comment wars with Bobby...got a pretty good idea any argument I throw your way wom't make a difference, Hoad is greatest thing since sliced bread.

You seriously going to find a place for this guy in the top 10 with following candidates in mind? Federer, Laver, Sampras, Gonzales, Tilden, Borg, Rosewall, Nadal, Lendl, Connors, Agassi, McEnroe, Newcombe, Perry, Emerson, Lacoste, Budge, Djokovic? Becker? Edberg? Wilander? Come on now even top 15 is really pushing it. I've read your comment wars with Bobby...got a pretty good idea any argument I throw your way wom't make a difference, Hoad is greatest thing since sliced bread.

P.s. laver ranked him at 1 for pre open era, not overall.

Laver ranked him ahead of Gonzales, Rosewall, Tilden, Newcombe, Perry, Emerson, Lacoste, Budge, Kramer. Who am I (or you, for that matter) to argue with Laver, who played against Hoad many times and lost two tours against him?

Laver ranked him ahead of Gonzales, Rosewall, Tilden, Newcombe, Perry, Emerson, Lacoste, Budge, Kramer. Who am I (or you, for that matter) to argue with Laver, who played against Hoad many times and lost two tours against him?

Rosewall's list in 2010.
1) Hoad
2) Gonzales
3) Laver
4) Federer

Rosewall is a very astute judge.

Well, let's take Kramer as a judge. Kramer didn't think much of Laver and didn't rank him as high as many people do here on this forum. Does that make his opinion right?

BTW with all due respect to Rosewall, but if he seriously made that list in 2010, with Hoad as the best ever, and the others following (Sampras???????????) the man is clearly biased. Anybody with half an ounce of common sense would see that as illogical on some many levels.

Laver ranked him ahead of Gonzales, Rosewall, Tilden, Newcombe, Perry, Emerson, Lacoste, Budge, Kramer. Who am I (or you, for that matter) to argue with Laver, who played against Hoad many times and lost two tours against him?

Rosewall's list in 2010.
1) Hoad
2) Gonzales
3) Laver
4) Federer

Rosewall is a very astute judge.

Federer's won 2 more slams, 2 more WTF's and broken the weeks record at #1 since then though. So he's probably moved up.

BTW with all due respect to Rosewall, but if he seriously made that list in 2010, with Hoad as the best ever, and the others following (Sampras???????????) the man is clearly biased. Anybody with half an ounce of common sense would see that as illogical on some many levels.

Biased?
Common sense tells me that Hoad's achievements in 1958 and 1959 exceed the accomplishments of Federer or Laver in their best years.

BTW with all due respect to Rosewall, but if he seriously made that list in 2010, with Hoad as the best ever, and the others following (Sampras???????????) the man is clearly biased. Anybody with half an ounce of common sense would see that as illogical on some many levels.

Forza, As I have tried to convince Dan in several posts, Laver and Rosewall made their lists obviously considering peak play not achievements. Regarding achievements Hoad is never a top ten player of course.

Forza, As I have tried to convince Dan in several posts, Laver and Rosewall made their lists obviously considering peak play not achievements. Regarding achievements Hoad is never a top ten player of course.

Laver I think did it right splitting the pre open era and open era into two (the other list with Fed, Sampras, etc.). Even then Hoad as number 1 in pre open era, however, is probably due to similar time period of Laver, and peer respect (like Murray or Djokovic a few times saying Nadal is GOAT or whatever after a tough match to him, when he is nowhere near that, especially with another player who is still active and is the best candidate for that). I think they probably say that out of respect for Hoad, or what could have been, but even then that's overtly generous. Hoad ain't the only man to have a scary peak form, or win 3 slams in a year and make the final of another, or have a really solid overall great year, or be hampered by injuries, have unfulfilled potential etc.
Yeah, Laver's lists are a bit more logical, although not perfect. The Rosewall one, pretty poor. That's my opinion. I wonder what'd they say if we polled them right now on the spot, especially interested in what Rosewall has to say....Laver's a homie.