Not to mention most sha groups are half composed of people under level cap. I usually top meters there too, it's super easy with exo glyph and LH. It doesn't mean that in a real raid I don't have to work my fingers to the bone to keep up with better tuned dps. I like where Ret is mechanics wise, as I gain more haste it's becoming better but there are a lot of little things they could do to make it better and more importantly more fun.

There are a lot of good suggestions here for inquisition and while it's better now with the crit, it's too short and still feels like a drag. I really wish DP was baseline again 'cause that would help alleviate quite a few problems I think. Also our mobility....I miss having both PoJ and LAotL. T6 still feels pretty boring, I wish it did something aside from boring damage/heal and it feels like it should do more of it if it's on a 1min cd and doesn't generate HP. Also why doesn't it, and it's gcd, scale with haste?

While our 4pc is godly, i agree that it's not fun to be balanced around those kind of things. Set effects should be bonuses not requirements.

Not to mention most sha groups are half composed of people under level cap. I usually top meters there too, it's super easy with exo glyph and LH. It doesn't mean that in a real raid I don't have to work my fingers to the bone to keep up with better tuned dps. I like where Ret is mechanics wise, as I gain more haste it's becoming better but there are a lot of little things they could do to make it better and more importantly more fun.

There are a lot of good suggestions here for inquisition and while it's better now with the crit, it's too short and still feels like a drag. I really wish DP was baseline again 'cause that would help alleviate quite a few problems I think. Also our mobility....I miss having both PoJ and LAotL. T6 still feels pretty boring, I wish it did something aside from boring damage/heal and it feels like it should do more of it if it's on a 1min cd and doesn't generate HP. Also why doesn't it, and it's gcd, scale with haste?

While our 4pc is godly, i agree that it's not fun to be balanced around those kind of things. Set effects should be bonuses not requirements.

Baseline DP, for Ret at least, sounds like a great idea... it's really not fun how so many of our talents are former Ret abilities.

I hate being able to deal a lot of damage and then after 30 seconds I hit like a wet noodle. So I'd suggest a buff to TV and/or CS, preferably TV.

GotAK would be the CD that has to be nerfed I believe, it's damage got significantly buffed going into MoP, it used to do very little damage in Cata (the dude that spawns), but keep the Strength gain from autoattacks during it the same, or possibly cap it at an earlier stack.

Oh yeah I forgot about this issue, our raid utility...it is lackluster. Sure I could start off-healing when things go wrong but no one really cares about that because usually healers can manage, or it doesn't actually make a difference (no one notices) but kills my dps (that is noticeable), or if it does people still don't care really unless I bring it up which kinda makes me feel like an ass.

Most people really only care about offensive utilities and buffs and we have no offensive utility and very generic buffs. Either they have to make our off healing not affect our dps as much so we can actually do it to the point that it matters or just give up on the idea and let us actually do something useful (eg: banner, stormlash, lust, etc). Also the hand spells...for a class for which gcds are so valuable, they should really be off the gcd.

What padding? I'm just doing the fight like it should be done - cleaving down adds and MCs.

That is your opinion that it should be done that way, Most Guilds use a Tank and Offtank and you don't touch the adds, So yes if you are just killing adds and divine storming I would consider it padding.

That is your opinion that it should be done that way, Most Guilds use a Tank and Offtank and you don't touch the adds, So yes if you are just killing adds and divine storming I would consider it padding.

And that is your opinion. I've never done Sha with anything other than a PuG, and I have seen, first hand, how badly raids get raped if you don't cleave down adds and MCs. Logic dictates you AoE the shit out of everything.

And that is your opinion. I've never done Sha with anything other than a PuG, and I have seen, first hand, how badly raids get raped if you don't cleave down adds and MCs. Logic dictates you AoE the shit out of everything.

We can agree to disagree, Logic imo is kill the boss not pad the meter. Logic in your opinion is cleave everything down whatever suits you I don't care but Sha is a terrible fight to say Ret is fine with.

We can agree to disagree, Logic imo is kill the boss not pad the meter. Logic in your opinion is cleave everything down whatever suits you I don't care but Sha is a terrible fight to say Ret is fine with.

Perhaps. But what baffles me is you're saying we have AoE issues, then you call me out for actually showing that Ret does AoE well.

a. only small warrior nerfs in sight
b. 2s are a cheap way for overpowered classes to get their conquest cap really high and thus also dominate 3s, 5s, and RBGs.

apparently being bad for 2 seasons entitles warriors to be the best melee again. idk. gag order is being taken out which is a huge buff to us.

i do fine in 3s as ret/dk/shaman. only comps we have any real issues with are god comp and shadowplay because shadowpriests are a pile of dumb right now and we always had issues against them because of our vulnerability to offensive and defensive magic dispels ( plus silences and disarms)

basing your opinions on ret on 2s, against a class that is really really over tuned right now is really a bad idea. 2 is a a very unbalanced bracket and there have always been comps that are nigh unbeatable in it.

ret damage is pretty good, our synergy is amazing, and our utility both for raids and for pvp is some of the best in the game. anyone who says otherwise isn't playing it properly. what's more our mechanics WORK, which is a far cry from where it has been in the past.

Inquisition out of gcd, castin inquisition doesn't reset the time but add 10s for each hp spent,
sacred shield out of gcd or restored to its earlier status... u cannot refresh the 5s buff only the 30s one...

Perhaps. But what baffles me is you're saying we have AoE issues, then you call me out for actually showing that Ret does AoE well.

We're not very good AoE, unless it's adds that are going to live a long time.I don't think your one picture of killing Sha is a good indication of Ret AoE considering most people in sha groups are under lvl cap or just plain don't know what is going on.

We're not very good AoE, unless it's adds that are going to live a long time.I don't think your one picture of killing Sha is a good indication of Ret AoE considering most people in sha groups are under lvl cap or just plain don't know what is going on.

We have decent AoE imo.. just sometimes it can take a bit long to ramp up, especially without Divine Purpose procs..One option would be to not have be linked to Holy Power, but then you're bound to a cooldown again probably..

Perhaps. But what baffles me is you're saying we have AoE issues, then you call me out for actually showing that Ret does AoE well.

Most likely just miss communication not a big deal either way, I tell you what go into the trash in MV with a Raid DPS spec that means ES since that is the normal Raid spec. Try to top meters on any of the trash packs. Sha is misleading because those people below you could have been mind controlled and if they were you didn't get their true DPS. Maybe you never got MC'd but that doesn't prove they didn't. I find it hard to believe that if everyone is capped @ 90 in equal gear that you can out DPS any class in an AE fashion.

So yes we do have AE issues, Our AE is very very limited and tied to our single target ability no other class gets this same treatment.