I bought another copy of 2nd ed WEG players guide because my first copy finally succumbed to all the use I give it.

I play in the expanded universe in the pre-Vong days but after Anakin Solo is born.

Inquisitor Tremayne

04-09-2008, 05:31 PM

Awesome!

That sounds cool. Tell me more DA.

amardolem

05-10-2008, 08:15 PM

neither, or none, but which do you recomend? "At last we shall reveal ourselves..... at last, we shall have revenge!" Big SW fan, big D&D player, but never the twain have met!

Webhead

05-11-2008, 09:54 AM

Anyone still play the West End Games version of the Star Wars RPG?

Oh, absolutely. WEG's Star Wars RPG is my favorite RPG of all time. Still have all my old sourcebooks and my two copies of the corebook. It's been a couple years since my last campaign, but I'm feeling the urge to start one up again, so I imagine it won't be too much longer.

Anyone adapted any adventures from WEG to Saga or Revised?

I've run a short-lived campaign of the Star Wars d20 Revised edition, but in the strictest sense, I haven't really converted material from one to the other. There was some real cool material from the Star Wars Gamer magazine that is worth converting over to Star Wars D6 though...just haven't gotten around to it yet.

Star Wars d20 had some interesting features to it, but D6 serves my Star Wars needs better. I never liked the class-and-level-based structure of d20 for emulating Star Wars. And I like D6's combat, damage, and starship rules better. Oh, and the Dark Side rules need some serious tweaking in any of the d20 versions to grok with my established notions of how the Dark Side should behave.

GBVenkman

05-14-2008, 12:57 AM

I still have some books my uncle would use when I was a small kid; I always though of going through "Tatooine Manhunt" for some material.

Webhead

05-14-2008, 01:25 AM

I have fond memories of running Star Wars D6 adventures for my brother and his friends on the front porch of our apartment. We would lay a blanket down over the concrete so that our butts wouldn't hurt so much from sitting around there for hours on end (we didn't have a table that we could take outside so we played on the floor instead, not bothering with chairs). Thinking back, they probably weren't the most intricate or well-conceived adventures as I was still a young Game Master back then, but we sure had a hell of a lot of fun!

I miss that kind of free-wheeling play. I need to try to recapture that style somehow.

Inquisitor Tremayne

05-27-2008, 11:39 AM

I have fond memories of running Star Wars D6 adventures for my brother and his friends on the front porch of our apartment. We would lay a blanket down over the concrete so that our butts wouldn't hurt so much from sitting around there for hours on end (we didn't have a table that we could take outside so we played on the floor instead, not bothering with chairs). Thinking back, they probably weren't the most intricate or well-conceived adventures as I was still a young Game Master back then, but we sure had a hell of a lot of fun!

I miss that kind of free-wheeling play. I need to try to recapture that style somehow.

Saga edition my friend, Saga edition.

Its great. It is detailed enough to cover a lot of things yet open enough to let the GM really adhoc what the players wish to do.

Case in point, most of the game I am running has had a Firefly type feel to it. The players are on the outskirts of the galaxy bopping around from one planet to the next adn you never know where or who they are going to run into next.

Loads of fun!

Webhead

05-28-2008, 11:20 AM

Saga edition my friend, Saga edition.

Its great. It is detailed enough to cover a lot of things yet open enough to let the GM really adhoc what the players wish to do.

Case in point, most of the game I am running has had a Firefly type feel to it. The players are on the outskirts of the galaxy bopping around from one planet to the next adn you never know where or who they are going to run into next.

Loads of fun!

I just ran the intro to my first Star Wars Saga campaign this past weekend and it has potential. The system is definately a breath of relief from the previous two versions of d20 Star Wars. I have thus far found that it runs pretty smoothly. The flat probability curve of the d20 has been problematic for my players though, as I witnessed them fall victim to several terrible rolls that not even Force Points could save them from (that brings me to one observation about Saga: Force Points don't seem potent enough). Seriously, five rolls in a row were made where the d20 came up a "4" or less. Granted, no one died, but I could tell that it irked them more than a little.

It still can never replace Star Wars D6 for me, but for the time being it seems like it will be fun. I must admit, character creation and combat in Saga are very nicely lean and efficient. I've never seen another d20 game where I could walk four players through their first character creation in an hour. This included me explaining the differences between Saga and D&D 3.5.

I still miss running my Star Wars D6 though (see the "Campaign Invitation" board for proof of that ;))

Seriously, destiny points can quickly unbalance your game. Whatever you do, DO NOT put your BBEG up against your 4 players alone. If your 4 players have at least 1 destiny point, on each of their initiatives they can spend that DP to auto-crit the BBEG and potentially take them out in one round. Not Cool.

But my players tend to hoard their Force points and Destiny points so I kind of have to make situations to force them to use them. No pun intended.

One other "problem" you may find is that there are not rules to cover every single little thing a character could potentially do, so you as the GM are left to calling for skill checks or ability checks or simply adhoc-ing in general. But I don't have a problem with this and it allows me the ability to keep the game moving. Can't find the rule in the book, adhoc it!

Webhead

05-28-2008, 03:14 PM

That's what Destiny Points are for!!

I have been undecided on my opinion of the Destiny Point rules at this stage. Thus, I let my players know that I'm not using Destiny Points yet, but I may add them in later after I've had time to decide if/how they are going to play a role in my campaign.

One other "problem" you may find is that there are not rules to cover every single little thing a character could potentially do, so you as the GM are left to calling for skill checks or ability checks or simply adhoc-ing in general. But I don't have a problem with this and it allows me the ability to keep the game moving. Can't find the rule in the book, adhoc it!

This actually harkens back to the style of play that got me into RPGs to begin with...thus I'm more in favor of this element than opposed to it. The game should give you enough insight into how things are done that you should feel confident and comfortable filling in the blanks with your own judgement.

That's how we played RPGs in the "golden days". When the rules for something weren't clear (or didn't exist), the GM got creative, had the players roll some dice and moved on! Any game that encourages this scores points with me.

Inquisitor Tremayne

05-28-2008, 03:22 PM

This actually harkens back to the style of play that got me into RPGs to begin with...thus I'm more in favor of this element than opposed to it. The game should give you enough insight into how things are done that you should feel confident and comfortable filling in the blanks with your own judgement.

That's how we played RPGs in the "golden days". When the rules for something weren't clear (or didn't exist), the GM got creative, had the players roll some dice and moved on! Any game that encourages this scores points with me.

I concur. It avoids rule hang-ups that slow down the game and that is always a plus!

Webhead

05-28-2008, 03:37 PM

I concur. It avoids rule hang-ups that slow down the game and that is always a plus!

I think this is one of the things that I've always admired about the Star Wars D6 RPG. Several times throughout the book, the authors remind you of the "golden rule of the Star Wars RPG": If you're stuck or not sure how to handle something, pick a difficulty number and have the players roll the most appropriate skill.

Tamerath

06-02-2008, 10:46 AM

Personally, I loved the d6 version over any d20 version they have offered so far, and that was after playing for a year or so on d20 and having two wonderful campaigns with it. The d6 system really suited the star wars feel and, at least for me, added the cinamatic touch I was looking for with space flight rules and whatnot. I had a hard time recapturing it with the d20 system.

Webhead

06-02-2008, 02:29 PM

Aye...I miss my Star Wars D6 games. Best RPG ever.

Tamerath

06-02-2008, 06:41 PM

I just saw your profile Webhead. Star Wars d6 was my first run at GameMastering too! ahhh....good times

Webhead

06-03-2008, 12:02 AM

I just saw your profile Webhead. Star Wars d6 was my first run at GameMastering too! ahhh....good times

Indeed. See the link below for a little more on Star Wars D6 as my gateway to role playing. Great fun and great memories!

http://www.penandpapergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5298&page=4

Inquisitor Tremayne

06-03-2008, 10:30 AM

You know, I am going to have to go back and break out my WEG books. I do remember the game being fun and fast paced and easy to learn, but I also remember the difficulties got out of hand rather quickly. And being a Jedi was the end all be all of characters.

Oh, nostalgia. Le sigh.

Tamerath

06-03-2008, 01:33 PM

I found that the best d6 games in my group were with newer characters. Difficulties did get out of hand. Hehehe...my friend was using a Barabel Shockboxer-turned jedi and thought he'd always build up his dodge...got it up to 13D+2 and I couldn't touch him...with anything....so it can be exploited I think. I had the most fun with my jedi characters but I had a solid group of non-jedi interested players so it was pretty well balanced.

Webhead

06-03-2008, 02:00 PM

...but I also remember the difficulties got out of hand rather quickly.

Do tell...

And being a Jedi was the end all be all of characters.

[The rant below is not directed at you, Tremayne, I just got my brain churning about what I've been hearing people say recently about Force Powers in D6 and I wanted to get some of my thoughts out on "paper".]

I often hear folks talk about how "unbalanced" they feel characters with Force power supposedly are in Star Wars D6, but I never really experienced this the way they make it sound.

Yes, characters with Force Skills are more "powerful" (meaning they have more options) than non-Force Sensitives, but it comes with its own costs. There's the substantial training time for starters and the expenditure of Character Points which non-Force Users will be spending on raising their skills. There's the fact that your teacher chooses which Force Powers to teach you. Then, each Force Skill you're using counts as an action in combat, increasing your Multiple Action Penalty and the powers generally have very specific uses. Then there's the whole "Jedi Code and Falling to the Dark Side" *thing*...

Example 1: You have to have at least 2D+1 in Sense before the [Lightsaber Combat] power even begins to benefit you. Activating and maintaining [Lightsaber Combat] requires both Control and Sense, which is two actions, then if you wish to attack with your lightsaber in a round, that is a third action for a -2D penalty to all actions. Subtract 2D from your 2D+1 Sense Skill and you are only left with the +1 bonus to your attack roll. Then, if you want to dodge/parry any attacks that come at you that round, that's additional penalties you have to take. So, it's not as powerful as it sounds until you get to a higher level of your skill.

Example 2: [Absorb/Dissipate Energy] is an "all-or-nothing" effect. Either you absorb the damage or you fail and take full damage. With a regular blaster pistol doing 4D damage, you'd have to have at least 4D in Control to have fair odds at absorbing a blaster bolt, assuming you have taken no other actions that round. Attacking a stormtrooper and then trying to [Absorb/Dissipate] blaster fire in the same round is two actions (-1D to all Skills), so in such a case, you'd only roll 3D to absorb against the blaster's 4D damage roll...possible, but not likely.

Sorry for the rant...I just don't think Force Skills in D6 are anywhere near as overpowered as some people seem to suggest. I really only see them becoming an issue when you have GMs who are easy and loose with letting players learn Force Skills and powers or have games that allow characters to develop their Force Skills into higher dice ranges in excess of about 7D or so. At that point, you're approaching Vader or Obi-Wan power levels anyway.

Webhead

06-03-2008, 02:16 PM

Hehehe...my friend was using a Barabel Shockboxer-turned jedi and thought he'd always build up his dodge...got it up to 13D+2 and I couldn't touch him...with anything...

Have someone attack him with Melee Weapons or Brawling. That's why Star Wars D6 included 3 different defense skills. Dodge only works against ranged attacks, Brawling Parry is used against Brawling, and Melee Parry is used against Melee Weapons. If he wants to be Mr. Super-Defense, he has to split his Character Points between three skills, not just one.

Just an observation. I've had "Captain Dodge" characters in my games on occasion too. I had to remind them that Dodge is not a catch-all skill.

Inquisitor Tremayne

06-03-2008, 03:05 PM

Do tell...I really only see them becoming an issue when you have GMs who are easy and loose with letting players learn Force Skills and powers or have games that allow characters to develop their Force Skills into higher dice ranges in excess of about 7D or so. At that point, you're approaching Vader or Obi-Wan power levels anyway.

that was the redeeming quality was that the GM had control over these things much more than one does over the resources available in d20.

However, problems did arise when you had "high-level" games, when skills were pushing 7D+. Beyond that point you ran into the same problem the RCR had, high level Jedi are nigh-unstoppable. Restricting the powers and abilities that are available to the players I was never really that comfortable with. If a player expressed interest in gaining x power then I felt it my duty as a GM to supply them with it.

So I do agree that while lower level games were not so bad, any high levels games were pretty one sided as far as Jedi were concerned.

I wish I could remember details to back my case but I don't remember too much from those games back then. Same with my 2nd edition D&D games. C.R.S.!!

Tamerath

06-03-2008, 03:18 PM

Have someone attack him with Melee Weapons or Brawling. That's why Star Wars D6 included 3 different defense skills. Dodge only works against ranged attacks, Brawling Parry is used against Brawling, and Melee Parry is used against Melee Weapons. If he wants to be Mr. Super-Defense, he has to split his Character Points between three skills, not just one.

CRAP! I totally forgot about that in my games...granted there was a lot of blaster fire...lol...I was young. Thanks for reminding me lol

Webhead

06-03-2008, 04:31 PM

that was the redeeming quality was that the GM had control over these things much more than one does over the resources available in d20.

I very much agree. For some reason I have yet to put my finger on, it seems like any version of d20 Star Wars is a little trickier to "reign the players in" and keep them from just cherry-picking the powers they want and ignoring anything they deem "frivolous".

However, problems did arise when you had "high-level" games, when skills were pushing 7D+. Beyond that point you ran into the same problem the RCR had, high level Jedi are nigh-unstoppable.

I agree to this to an extent. Any character (Force User or not) with skill levels that approach the 8D range or so start to really show how terrifyingly good they are. Force Skills at this level can be very potent in the right hands, but Force Powers still can't solve every situation. Besides, it would take a long campaign to reach that level in Force Skills, so the game is probably becoming rather epic by that point.

Restricting the powers and abilities that are available to the players I was never really that comfortable with. If a player expressed interest in gaining x power then I felt it my duty as a GM to supply them with it.

I've always tried to take a "fair but firm" stance on this issue. Force Users may let me know that they are interested in powers X, Y and Z. I will put that in the back of my mind as a goal that they are working toward and try to help them on the path to gaining those things while making them aware that the rewards will come with good effort. If you tell me you want to have [Lightsaber Combat], I have no objection to that but, just as a responsible teacher would, that isn't going to be the very first power you get. The Force User needs to build a basic foundation and the teacher needs to be sure that the student is responsible and stable enough to handle his powers without abusing them (the student's actions are the responsibility of the teacher).

So I do agree that while lower level games were not so bad, any high levels games were pretty one sided as far as Jedi were concerned.

I've witnessed a few instances of Jedi-heinousness. I think it really falls upon the GM (and also the sensibilities of the player) to maintain the game's integrity...but I think that's true of any RPG I've run. There's always that one player that tries to take things too far. Be it D&D, Cyberpunk (ugh!), Shadowrun (double ugh!), Mutants & Masterminds, Vampire, Star Wars, etc.

CRAP! I totally forgot about that in my games...granted there was a lot of blaster fire...lol...I was young. Thanks for reminding me lol

Yeah, I had some thugs take a swing at one of my PCs once and I told him, "Okay, roll your Brawling Parry". He looked at me and said, "You mean Dodge, right?". Needless to say, he hadn't put any dice in Brawling Parry, so he just had to roll his Dexterity. I think many folks forget about the distinction. Good to keep in mind for the future though. :)

Tamerath

06-17-2008, 02:13 PM

Hmmm...I was thinking lately about doing a WEG Star Wars RPG in the "Legacy" Star Wars era. Maybe when Force Unleashed comes out later this year I can steal some ideas from it as well.

Holocron

09-21-2008, 05:17 AM

I may have said it elsewhere, but I don't know if I could seriously play star wars in a non D6 system... I'm pretty thoroughly involved in a long standing campaign that's been D6 for about 15 years though...

There are some quirks with the system as has been mentioned that you need to be aware of though. Indeed, if players focus their points into certain skills, they are bound to become extremely powerful in that area. A barabel shockboxer with dodge at 13D+2 is pretty formidable, almost impossible to hit with blasters, and tough against melee combat as well. No match for a well trained jedi with a lightsaber though... so the part about jedi being unbeatable is sort of true in the context of jedi vs non-jedi once the jedi reaches a certain level of proficiency.

As was stated though, jedi will be weak when initially created, so they'll have to play for a long time to build up all their critical skills, lightsaber, melee parry, control, sense, alter... maybe others...

Indeed, in WEG starwars, there's almost always a vulnerability you can exploit... even against jedi. One of my players has become an extremely powerful jedi, saber and melee parry at 10D+, and force skills around 10D... he's basically immune to being hit by blasters, and logically he should be more powerful than most other force users he encounters, so even dark jedi can't reliably beat him. However... for characters with strong personal defense abilities... there's always the times when they're travelling, on ships in space... their ship could be ambushed, and if they've been focusing on lightsaber and force skills, they're probably weak on ship piloting and gunnary... so you could put their life in danger that way... my player has a pretty supe'd up ship, and has investing heavily in piloting skill, so he can usually at least escape pretty reliably.

So... I've developed other methods of challenging him. Blasters set to stun shoot a blue stun ring, like we see Leia get hit by in episode 4 right? The area of effect is too big to be blocked by a lightsaber, so he's still vulnerable to stun attacks, and there's also larger area of effect stunners out there. He's also still vulnerable to fire damage, because fire doesn't have consistant "shape" it can't be blocked by a lightsaber right? Or a spray of napalm like substance?? So now realizing this after I've used it on him a few times, my player has started increasing his dodge too.

Still however, things like grenades and thermal detonators are even larger area of effect, and he probably wont' be able to dodge completely out of the blast radius, so there's potential for at least some damage from grenades or other blast type damage.

Then... I've introduced an arch villain... dark side force user on par with the player's level of power... The first battle was a clear loss for the player, but he escaped. But there's rematches possible...

Finally... there's the moral battle against the dark side. My player has managed to get 1 darkside point, and since his character has gotten sooo powerful in a span of time of only about 3 years game time, his character is now susceptible to the dark side, so he has to think really hard about how to avoid any more dark side points, and how to get rid of the one he has. Since he won't use the dark side, the one dark side point he has is giving him a penalty to his force skills.

I don't really believe in limiting my players' characters' potential to grow, but I have emplaced a few house rules to slow down the growth and interject some make sense factor...

First, at my player's elite level of skill, he has gotten so good at lightsaber fighting and the force, that anyone he had as a teacher can no longer teach him anymore, so he would have to pay double ps to increase force skills, and I've ruled that his lightsaber skill is so high, that he can't really improve just by training, and actually, he has to invest enough time to train just to maintain his current level of skill. The only way to improve without paying double points is to go against someone of even greater power. This is dangerous, because your skills will be weaker than the new arch villain

Alkai

02-13-2009, 10:35 PM

I've been reading the posts and they are really good. I've garnered many good ideas from reading the things all of you have posted.

The GM I play under is a good friend. We have been friends for almost 25 years and have gamed most of that time (various genre). Our favorites are 2nd Edition AD&D and WEG D6 Star Wars.

In the most recent Star Wars game, one of the players asked the GM if he would allow him to play a Jedi of an alien race who was corrupted by a Dark Ritual which caused him to become a Vampiric Dark Jedi.

The original premise was supposed to tie the character to a story arch involving an ancient artifact of unknown origin. (the artifact was created as a plot hook).

The GM told the player that he does not like players playing Dark Side Jedi. The player assured the GM that he was not going to unbalance his campaign.

It was explained that the character he wanted to play was an alien, whose people had succumb to the Dark Side through a rift in the Force created when they tried to open a direct connection with the Force through a ritual. But something went horribly wrong and the volunteer through whom the intended connection was to become established was instead filled with Dark Side energies and transformed into a Vampiric Lifeforce Energy draining humanoid, who began feeding on his own people until he was driven off world.

The player's character left off world to search for an artifact rumored to be capable of closing the rift and restoring his people to normal. His people had been transformed into Vampiric Lifeforce Energy draining humanoids who feed on the Midi-Chlorians of Force Sensitives by draining their blood.

The player assured the GM that as soon as he located the ancient artifact, he would return to his home world and use the artifact to close the rift and restore his people.

The player was persuasive and the GM was curious as to how this would play out, and he allowed the player to play the character. Within 3 sessions the player located the artifact and rather than return to his home world as soon as he could, he instead went about systematically unbalancing the campaign. When the GM called him on it, he accused the GM of railroading and being a bad GM.

We (the other players) didn't see the harm in allowing the character to have a little off world fun before returning to his home planet to complete a ritual that would effectively retire his character from the game. (The vampiric character was created specifically to save his people and close the rift). The GM prefers to maintain the peace so he agreed to allow the character to delay his return home.

A few sessions after that, we (the other players) regretted our decision. The Vanpiric character began to systematically destroy the campaign. The GM tried to stop it but by that time (for reasons that are far too detailed to go into without taking up a lot! more space) the player had become rude and hostile to any suggestion that his character was overpowered and disruptive. The player kept insisting that the GM was being unfair and singling him out just because his character was clever enough to outwit the GM's plans and the GM's NPCs.

Meanwhile, the other players said nothing and seemed to be enjoying the new power level that the player had introduced. But now we all see how this player has abused the game, rules, and GM's willingness to allow a player to play an unusual character. The rogue player does not see that he is doing anything wrong.

The GM has tried to amp up the power level of his campaign in an effort restore the balance. Each time he has attempted to do so, the power player has become biligerent and accusational.

At one point the GM was 'told' by that player that he would strand him at the game location if he tried to bring in anything that the player did not want brought in. In other words, anything the GM tried to use to re-establish control over the game the player of the Vampiric character shot down with threats.

The GM told the other players (since the one out of control won't listen to him anymore) that the next time the player threatens him over anything in-game, he is out of the game permanently and will never be allowed to play in any other game the GM holds.

(it might help the reader to know that the offensive player was the GMs only source of transportation up until recently, and we have been playing at the home of one of the other players.)

Now that I've filled you all in on the basics, I'd like your feedback as to what should be done in the future to prevent this type of abuse from happening again.

gdmcbride

02-14-2009, 12:46 AM

I played quite a bit of Star Wars d6. Most recently, I have this yearning to run the saga version of the Darkstryder Campaign.

Now that is a great adventure.

Gary

Bearfoot_Adam

02-14-2009, 01:06 AM

Kick him out, Kick him out now

Webhead

02-14-2009, 12:04 PM

Obviously, the player in question is a very negative influence on the game and (as he himself demonstrated and subsequently tried to deny) can't be trusted or taken at his word. Were it my group, he would be uninvited if he did not cease his attitude immediately and surrender his character to the GM.

As far as preventing similar problems in the future with other players, take it as a lesson learned. The GM should not allow co-mingling of "evil" characters with a "good" party or campaign and vice versa. It only leads to party conflict and player/GM resentment. All players should approach (most) games from the point of view that their characters want to work together and have reason to trust each other.

Etarnon

02-14-2009, 10:32 PM

I'm a big fan of SW D6, and lesser extent, RCR d20 SW.

I can't stand SAGA. I've run 2 campaigns with it, and it's just very wrong feel to me. Both SAGA games campaigns were rampant power gamers. That, and the eratta, and all the powers that should have been dark side points, etc etc...Never again.

Barrier Peaks

02-15-2009, 05:41 AM

The second RPG I ever bought (after Top Secret/SI) was the first edition of WEG's Star Wars RPG. We played a lot of that game way back when, and had some good times. I got involved with Cyberpunk eventually, and Star Wars became a go-to for occasional one-shots. I missed the second edition initially, and by the time I might have been interested in playing SW again, WEG had released dozens of books for the new version. There wasn't any way I could keep up, so I didn't try to.

That changed when I found that someone had sold their entire SWD6 collection to the local game store, and it ended up on their shelf of used games. I got pretty much everything (inluding all the Adventure Journals) for an average of $3-4 each. There are still some holes in my collection (the holy grail of which is Hideouts and Strongholds), but for the most part it's complete.

About the time I really started running SW again is when Wizards announced they'd be releasing a d20 version. Initially, I was very resistant to the notion of playing SW with d20. I was never a vocal poster in the SW gaming community, but I got the idea to take the d20 material that was released and convert it all to the D6 system as it was released. The result of all this labor was The Rebellion (http://verminary.com/rebellion/); it was also to symbolize my downfall.

As Nietzsche said, "... if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." The more I began to read the d20 rules, the more attractive they started to become. When the Revised Core Rules were released for SWd20, I decided to give the game a try in practice (the game I ran eventually inspired the article on Ord Vaxal (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ord_Vaxal:_Prison_Planet_of_the_Empire) which appeared in Dungeon Magazine #106/Polyhedron #165 (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Polyhedron_165)). Die-hard D6 fans will say that this is when I fell to the Dark Side.

After that, my interest in D6 remained, but only insofar as my nostalgia was concerned. I still liked D6, and I still valued the extensive amount of content that WEG had published in the time they had the SW license. It was also around this time that writing really took off for me, which didn't leave me much (any!) time to continue updating The Rebellion (and, sadly, it hasn't been updated since).

I occasionally consider dusting off my D6 books and seeing how the old edition plays now, given the new experiences I've had since. I don't know when (or if) this will happen. My job, my children, and other responsibilities that didn't exist for me six years ago often cloud my schedule (as I'm sure most folks will understand).

Holocron

02-15-2009, 12:27 PM

How interesting... Barrier Peaks, you're the guy who had "The Rebellion" website!?! Nice! I remember going to your site several times and looking up items for reference, and saving it to my favorites several times. It was a good site.

Alkai, as far as your rogue monster player... that story is both amazing and ridiculous. Its hard to believe a player could be so r-tarded, but also hard to believe he could get away with it for so long too. You did have sort of a unique situation though.

I guess things like that make me glad I never really played with strangers. I only game with my closer friends. But, some things to think about in general:
- GM really needs to give approval before a player makes characters with unusual abilities or origins.
- As a group, players and GM should enforce the GM's approval / disapproval authority and back him up in cases where the GM has to make a ruling that isn't covered by the rules
- Players should back up the GM's storytelling authority, but also call him out when he/she is being unfair
- The emphasis should be on having fun, and creating a good story

So, in the case where your rogue player was taking over the campaign, if I was the GM I would have first not allowed any special abilities that I thought were over powered. In your case, the player had an unusual ability and background he wanted to try, but it sounds like the ability made him overwhelmingly powerful from the beginning. I would probably agree with the general idea, but assume the worst, the artifact mission will never get done, OR I would personally throw in complications to make it hard or impossible to accomplish. Next I would allow the player to have a version of the abilities he wanted, but I'd force him to accept a compromise, so that the ability conformed to the game mechanics I approved of. This would prevent him from becoming so powerful that nobody could stop him.

When the rogue player's actions started getting annoying, I'd put him in game into a situation that continuing the bad behaviour would be bad for him. Like if he's sucking down everyone's force abilities or something, maybe he drains someone important to the other players, or popular in the game world, so that he develops a lot of enemies. If his character started getting too strong to beat, even while conforming to the rules I approved, then maybe a secondary consequence of his actions is that he built a negative reputation for his entire race, and now they're all being hunted, or his homeworld was found out, and the place is being bombed from orbit by the Imperial fleet. Wouldn't it be ironic if it was the evil empire that had come to the rescue and destroyed the evil race? Then the player would realize that it was his fault that the rest of his race was exterminated. Or maybe they were ALMOST all exterminated, except for maybe two or three, and they figured out what went wrong and traced the bad blood back the player, and now the player is being hunted by his own people!

So, things like that. I'd use good story telling to get the player back in line. If he started pulling out threats like the not giving a ride back, I'd immediately make sure I had arrangements so he could never use a threat like that ever again. Either I'd secure some other transportation, or refuse to GM if nobody else could provide a ride or we couldn't move the game location to somewhere else we could all get to. Using real life threats to get your way in game is BS. The neither the GM or other players should tolerate that for even a second. If the guy is sort of a friend and you don't want to just throw him out of the game, yeah, you gotta put him on notice and let him know the behavior isn't gonna be tolerated. If nobody even likes the guy, throw him out. He's just gone.

I had one example sort of like that when I was like 14 or 15... I was just getting started GMing, and we were playing star wars D6. One guy made an ISB agent, and well, he played him as a typical ISB agent, arrogant and cocky and a bully. I was ok with that, but it was starting to draw attention away from the main story. Plot progress came to a screeching halt because he was too busy bullying every NPC he came across. But, unfortunately for him, he was on the Arch-villain's Star Destroyer. If he had behaved himself, he could've been in a position of power, but he was POing all the NPC crew, and word eventually got back to the arch-villain, who was a dark jedi knight, and the ISB agent player still didn't back down! So what happened next? Exactly what any arch-villain dark jedi would do, he said "I hate ISB..." and force choked the SOB.

Wow, that was a long discussion... So hopefully Alkai, you've been able to remove the offensive player and the game is back to fun. Let me know if you have any other issues you want to talk about.

Inquisitor Tremayne

02-15-2009, 01:50 PM

I'm a big fan of SW D6, and lesser extent, RCR d20 SW.

I can't stand SAGA. I've run 2 campaigns with it, and it's just very wrong feel to me. Both SAGA games campaigns were rampant power gamers. That, and the eratta, and all the powers that should have been dark side points, etc etc...Never again.

all the errata? Do you not remember all the errata for the RCR? Holy cow! Go back and look at the RCR errata vs ALL the errata for ALL Saga books.

In regards to the powers that should have been dark side, those were changed due to new scenes from the movies and cartoon, like Mace Windu using Force Grip on Grevious in the original Clone Wars cartoon. How could a Jedi Master use Force Grip and get a DSP? Or Yoda using Force Slam on the senatorial guards in Palpatines office in EP III.

I would say that SW d6 and Saga edition both do an excellent job at emulating the movies and what we have seen and read in the Star Wars universe as well as keeping the action fast paced. The RCR was way too unnecessarily rules heavy for its own good, and it had to be revised every time a new movie or something came out. The Revenge of the Sith collection for the RCR and 2 game session long space combats come to mind when I think of the RCR.

Etarnon

02-16-2009, 06:34 AM

Yoda using Force Slam on the senatorial guards in Palpatines office in EP IIIYeah, I've participated in that miles long thread on WOTC also.

The RCR was way too unnecessarily rules heavy for its own good, and it had to be revised every time a new movie or something came out.

My spin is, if they had years to develop SAGA, why didn't they get it right, first time, right out of the gate?

It's not like WOTC didn't have Two Editions already, prior to that.

Barrier Peaks

02-16-2009, 07:48 AM

My spin is, if they had years to develop SAGA, why didn't they get it right, first time, right out of the gate?

It's not like WOTC didn't have Two Editions already, prior to that.

One could say the same thing about Dungeons and Dragons, or D6 Star Wars (which had three editions prior to being acquired by WotC), or any other RPG with more than one edition. Every game has errata; it's an unfortunate fact of life. Not every company provides corrections to their products, which is something that Wizards always seems to do.

It's easy for anyone who isn't directly involved in game design and development to sit back comfortably and say, "Why isn't this perfect?" There are countless variables involved that aren't always obvious, not even to the playtesters. Situations will ultimately arise in practice that weren't considered.

As to changing the rules every time a new movie comes out, that's an unfortunate side effect of working on a licensed property. The original (D6) edition of the game made certain assumptions about morality and using the Force that, at the time, weren't contradicted by the canon. Unfortunately, when working with Lucas, the films trump any non-canon source. Everything that is printed must be approved by Lucasfilm.

When you get right down to it, it's your game. Do what you like with it. Don't like Saga? Play RCR or D6. Don't like either of those? Convert it to GURPS, Hero, Storyteller, or whatever else floats your boat. Do a little game design of your own.

Etarnon

02-16-2009, 08:19 AM

[Deleted post]

Barrier Peaks

02-16-2009, 09:30 AM

Sorry if my last post seemed somewhat adversarial in tone. It wasn't intended to be.

Back to your regularly-scheduled thread.

Webhead

02-16-2009, 10:08 AM

...Don't like Saga? Play RCR or D6. Don't like either of those? Convert it to GURPS, Hero, Storyteller, or whatever else floats your boat. Do a little game design of your own.

Exactly and that's why so many editions/conversions of Star Wars exist. Not everyone can agree on how they want their Star Wars games to be played. For me, D6 was and still is as close to the action/adventure of the Star Wars movies as I can get but it doesn't stop my curiousity from probing other avenues. I have (and enjoy on some level) Saga Edition. I've adopted and developed some Star Wars conversions for Wushu and am considering doing a conversion for Savage Worlds. Still, I look forward to the day that I can once again crack open my WEG edition and run a classic D6 campaign again. All RPGs have their merits but on the whole, Star Wars D6 has been the quickest, easiest, yet most-satisfying RPG system I have ever played. I could accurately (and fairly) run the game from memory at this point.

YMMV but I encourage those with any interest in Star Wars to give it a shot if the opportunity presents itself.

Citadel

03-29-2009, 05:51 PM

Yes I remember those good times play out on the balcony at my GM’s house. WEG SW is what sealed the deal for me as for RPG’s. Currently I still have most of the books and there still in great condition to boot. I did have trouble with a couple of them they just never stayed all together the binding kept coming apart. I found the system very flexible and you could incorporate multiple genres’ just using the D6 system. I think Saga is great for a D20 system, and I find it is flexible. I’ve just never been able to find someone willing to give it a try. D & D seems to be the main staple of everyone diet now a day’s which I have yet to wrap my head around. I’m not much a fantasy player, but I’ll stick with WOW in the mean time.

Beaumont Sebos

04-09-2009, 07:54 PM

Anyone still play the West End Games version of the Star Wars RPG?

Or

Anyone adapted any adventures from WEG to Saga or Revised?

I am considering it.

It's the only SW I play. I'm a GM of a campaign that has run for 12+ years. In fact, playing tomorrow night. Whoohoo!

Citadel

04-10-2009, 06:17 PM

Beaumont Sebos Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquisitor Tremayne http://www.penandpapergames.com/forums/Greys/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.penandpapergames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=28420#post28420)
Anyone still play the West End Games version of the Star Wars RPG?

Or

Anyone adapted any adventures from WEG to Saga or Revised?

I am considering it.

It's the only SW I play. I'm a GM of a campaign that has run for 12+ years. In fact, playing tomorrow night. Whoohoo!

sure rub it in...lol

Silverthorne

04-15-2009, 05:54 AM

The best way to deal with an annoying player, like the one in question. As a friend tell him that his actions are not keeping with his original promise. Have the other players back you up. This way he knows that no one is enjoying the game but him. If it doesn't help then find another ride and let him know your decision to exclude his character from the game. If he tries to strand the party at a location, leave him behind.

I actually prefer the Star Wars version of Gurps over D6 or D20. Gives the gm and the players so much more options.

Holocron

04-16-2009, 03:19 AM

There's a version of star wars under gurps?? never heard of that...

fmitchell

04-16-2009, 08:38 AM

There's a version of star wars under gurps?? never heard of that...

I presume it's unofficial, on a fan website somewhere.

Beaumont Sebos

04-16-2009, 07:59 PM

Beaumont Sebos Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquisitor Tremayne http://www.penandpapergames.com/forums/Greys/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.penandpapergames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=28420#post28420)
Anyone still play the West End Games version of the Star Wars RPG?

Or

Anyone adapted any adventures from WEG to Saga or Revised?

I am considering it.

It's the only SW I play. I'm a GM of a campaign that has run for 12+ years. In fact, playing tomorrow night. Whoohoo!

sure rub it in...lol

Well, if it makes you feel any better, the session was sub-par.

Too much beer and gossip.

Silverthorne

04-17-2009, 04:42 AM

http://members.chello.nl/l.deckers3/main_page.html

While I am not real hot on his version of jedi abilities. It has a great deal of information that can be used. Personally I had used the Force abilities as spells. Linking them in the threads out of the d6 version of Star Wars.

WhiteTiger

07-15-2009, 09:29 AM

I am in a small game of WEG D6 star wars that is during the 10 year time frame between Episode 1 (phantom menace) & episode 2 (AOTC).

The story is only mediocre but I've always loved the D6 mechanics so it makes for a relatively fun afternoon.

Vaziir Jivaan

09-10-2009, 12:09 PM

WEG Star Wars will always be that "special" game for me. Some of the best games I ever played in ANY game system. I still love the system though I've started collecting SWSE and some minis.

-Vaz

Holocron

09-11-2009, 09:35 PM

I agree, WEG star wars has been the one that's endured the longest. The campaign started as my first real go at GMing and has been played with a number of my closer friends off and on now for about 16 years... At times we may have had up to maybe 10 or more players present in a single session... far more than what I could realistically manage, but now I've only had one player stick around for some gaming via chat for a long time with some interest from a few of the old friends off and on.

Morcant

12-04-2009, 07:34 AM

I'm of the opinion that D6 is one of a handful of the best systems ever.

Skygalleons

12-04-2009, 12:55 PM

I'm of the opinion that D6 is one of a handful of the best systems ever.

Seconded!

WhiteTiger

12-04-2009, 04:15 PM

Seconded!

Thirded!!! :biggrin:

Webhead

12-04-2009, 10:26 PM

Thirded!!! :biggrin:

Fourth...ded...? :noidea:

Inquisitor Tremayne

12-06-2009, 11:18 AM

Fourth...ded...? :noidea:

Fifthed!

But only in the sense that it is in the "handful" of best systems ever.

I personally feel Saga is the best, but I will not hi-jack this thread with my Saga praising.

WEG d6 was the first RPG I played with a group! It holds a special place in my heart.

Morcant

12-08-2009, 11:37 PM

I lean towards the thought that the generic D6 system may be the best system for cinematic style of play, even more so than generic d20. This is based on the number of dice used for action resolution, and the hero/fate/action point mechanics usually used for both systems.

JediSoth

02-24-2010, 02:12 PM

I still play the WEG d6 version on occasion. I made the mistake of getting rid of a lot of my book, but found the 2nd edition Revised and Expanded on eBay for about $10, so I now have it again.

Most recently, I ran an adventure (Escape from Echo Base) using the d6 rules at Gen Con last year. It was a blast!

I would certainly consider playing or running a campaign of this system again. It's easy to learn and plays fast.

Jame Rowe

04-30-2010, 12:34 PM

I have a bunch of the WEG books, but have only used the Revised and Expanded to game with once.

MementoMoron

05-24-2010, 07:54 PM

It speaks to the enduring quality of WEG SW D6 that this thread was started in 2008, but the most recent post was lessthan a month ago. For me, too, it is one of the first gaming systems I ever played, and to this day it's my favorite -- some of the best times I've ever had in life were around a table with very good friends playing SW. If it weren't a thread hijack, I'd explain the phrase "I'll have what the wookie's having". As for ease of play, I read a post in this thread where someone talked about being able to walk a new player through character generation in under an hour. In D6, theprocess usually took about 20 minutes. Once I was a veteran player, I could have a character created in 5. Furthermore, the system was one of several, of varying level of complexity, that biased me against level-based RPG's. To this day, though I play D&D, Pathfinder, and D20 Modern, levels still grate on me and I long for the days of alotting my experience points to different aspects of my PC as I saw fit.

Webhead

05-26-2010, 01:53 AM

If it weren't a thread hijack, I'd explain the phrase "I'll have what the wookie's having".

My group includes such you-just-had-to-be-there lines as:

"What's a planet like this doing under a woman like you?"

...and...

"I don't know if it's the engine grease or the Twi'lek sweat but these snacks are addictive!"

As for ease of play, I read a post in this thread where someone talked about being able to walk a new player through character generation in under an hour. In D6, theprocess usually took about 20 minutes. Once I was a veteran player, I could have a character created in 5.

Aye. The game is so streamlined and I've had it long enough that I could run the game from memory at this point. I barely need to crack the rulebook at all anymore (maybe for the less-common Force powers or for vehicle/starship stats).

Furthermore, the system was one of several, of varying level of complexity, that biased me against level-based RPG's. To this day, though I play D&D, Pathfinder, and D20 Modern, levels still grate on me and I long for the days of alotting my experience points to different aspects of my PC as I saw fit.

I can understand. I think Star Wars D6 has had the same influence on me and my views on game design. "Level" systems just feel so artificial and restricting to me after spending my formative years with a "point-allocation" progression system.

fmitchell

05-26-2010, 02:28 PM

"Level" systems just feel so artificial and restricting to me after spending my formative years with a "point-allocation" progression system.

Slight threadjack, but I eased into RPGs with Metagaming's Melee and Wizard (later expanded into The Fantasy Trip), with later introductions to Traveller and RuneQuest. Most systems outside D&D's sphere lead to that realization.

But yeah, D6 is one of the cleaner systems, and the wild die insures that even a whiny kid from a desert planet has a tiny chance of doing something amazing.

malchya

11-16-2010, 07:58 PM

I picked it up the day it hit the shelf at the local game shop. Bought most of the sourcebooks as they came out, then upgraded to 2nd edition (Woo Hoo!) as soon as it was out. Couldn't get my old group to play it, though. They wanted me to run AD&D or FASA Star Trek. Over the years I've run maybe six sessions of D6 SW. Now, however, my boy is old enough to play and is really into Star Wars. I've owned both d20 editions and find D6 to be much closer to my idea of how I would want Star Wars gaming to feel. Can't wait to get it going!

Ellanon

11-24-2010, 01:41 AM

I recently picked up the PDF versions of the D6 Space/Adventure/Fantasy from RPGNow.com I played WEG D6 Star Wars over 15 years ago. Between WEG D6 and Shadowrun I have a deep appreciation of classless/leveless systems - despite AD&D2 being the first RPG I ever played.

I too have found that all anyone wants to play is D&D. I have tried 4e, and am not a fan. I barely tolerated 3.x. 2.x used to annoy me, but the games were a lot more fun (although I attribute that to our age and playstyles rather than the game system).

My question for anyone still reading this excellent thread: How does WEG's new D6 offerings compare to the old Star Wars D6? I assume without the Star Wars license I have to do a little interpretation (which gives me a little breathing room to combine a few genre and ideas, i.e. BSG, Star Wars, Star Trek, Riddick, etc). That aside, does it stand well?

Etarnon

11-24-2010, 03:51 AM

Seems to me, it's a more refined version of the d6 system that they were doing at the tail end, that was separate from WEGd6.

You'd need to do some conversion.

If your pdf isn't enough, books can be had for cheap on eBay.

I'm more of a fan of d6 WEG than d20 SW by far. SAGA is allright, but it bogs downwith different calculations, and such and is more wargamish than WEG d6 ever was, since the latter was designed to be a ref centered cinematic deal.

Good luck.

Dytrrnikl

11-24-2010, 08:27 PM

Right now the company is just getting started, but there is a d6 system being worked on called Cinema6 that appears to be an update to the WEG d6 rules. They did say they were in talks to acquire licenses...mayhaps they'll land Star Wars and return it to it's rightful place with a truly cinematic system. Saga is good, don't get me wrong, however, it still falls short of the mark with Star Wars for me - primarily the class-level format.

Citadel

01-05-2011, 06:34 PM

wow....to see this thread is to bring back memories. SWD6 was the first table top I ever played, D & D never did anything for me. I tried plaing the D20 but it wasn't the same, Saga on the other hand has it's potential but didn't fill the void that the D6 did for me. IMO D6 out ranks them all so I'll be keeping my books and play when I can. As for the most of you has anyone played much?

Holocron

01-06-2011, 03:41 AM

I agree Citadel, Star Wars D6 is where its at. A coworker started a D20 SW campaign and I was tempted to join, but then as I reviewed the rules for character creation, I was reminded and turned off by the whole concept of classes and levels... and random attributes... To be fair, I've never actually tried SW D20, other than KOTOR and KOTOR 2, but those are a lot different from the D20 RPG.

I've actually been playing my SW D6 campaign just recently, the most recent session was about a week ago. This is the same storyline that's been ongoing off and on for years. I've been rolling out some new villains and deep complicated plots, so its been fun.

Max_Writer

01-06-2011, 09:29 AM

Yes, D6 was the best version of the game so far. I've played d6, d20, and Saga and the latter two pale in comparison to the first imho. Level-based and class-based systems can't hold a candle to the skill-based and rules light d6 version.

I. J. Thompson

02-08-2011, 05:57 PM

Ah, I've just read this whole, wonderful thread. Such great memories of this game, which I played from 1992-2003...

ThatGuy

02-10-2011, 12:47 AM

Hi there. Long time lurker first time poster.

Star Wars D6 was the first RPG book I owned. I was just starting to explore RPGs with my cousin who is 10 years older then me. My mother, knowing my love of all things Star Wars at the time and being rather enlightened bought me a copy of WEG Star Wars Second Edition for Christmas in 1992. I still have that old, beat up, worn blue cover First Printing on my shelf in my office.

I ran the living hell out of that game. I always seemed to have a game of it running from right around when I got it all the way up until around 1999 or so. Most of the players where I was at that time where big DnD fans, so I used the D20 Star Wars to get their toes wet and then moved them to the D6 system eventually. Sadly, though, it's fallen by the wayside for me as other games have come up and my focus shifted from Science Fantasy/Space Opera to more Horror. However in recent months I've been looking at that shelf (yes, I have a shelf mostly dedicated to WEG Star Wars) and considering doing something with the books. My first thought is Darkstryder. I've always been a fan of that series of books and honestly it would probably suit my group amazingly well, not to mention I've been running gritty horror games for a decade or so at this point. :-p

The only downside I'm facing is that most of my group sees the old WEG Star Wars as a dinosaur. Great for it's time, but it shows it's age. They are a bit of a progressive bunch, more likely to try/play newer systems then older ones. Maybe I can do that D6-SAGA Darkstryder conversion I've always thought of? anyways, I'm rambling.

In short, WEG Star Wars was the game I really cut my teeth on as a GM and will always hold a spot on my shelf.

bigjawhite

05-21-2011, 06:22 PM

Lots of love for Star Wars D6 WEG - how about convening our own mini-convention?

straxus

02-20-2012, 06:05 PM

Ahh there is a thread here about WEG Star Wars! Couple friends of mine and I dug the books out and started a new campaign.
I have been hoping to track down some of the old modules again as my old modules were stolen by past players... :(

Golden Age Superhero

04-25-2012, 08:46 PM

I've been reading the posts and they are really good. I've garnered many good ideas from reading the things all of you have posted.

The GM I play under is a good friend. We have been friends for almost 25 years and have gamed most of that time (various genre). Our favorites are 2nd Edition AD&D and WEG D6 Star Wars.

In the most recent Star Wars game, one of the players asked the GM if he would allow him to play a Jedi of an alien race who was corrupted by a Dark Ritual which caused him to become a Vampiric Dark Jedi.

The original premise was supposed to tie the character to a story arch involving an ancient artifact of unknown origin. (the artifact was created as a plot hook).

The GM told the player that he does not like players playing Dark Side Jedi. The player assured the GM that he was not going to unbalance his campaign.

It was explained that the character he wanted to play was an alien, whose people had succumb to the Dark Side through a rift in the Force created when they tried to open a direct connection with the Force through a ritual. But something went horribly wrong and the volunteer through whom the intended connection was to become established was instead filled with Dark Side energies and transformed into a Vampiric Lifeforce Energy draining humanoid, who began feeding on his own people until he was driven off world.

The player's character left off world to search for an artifact rumored to be capable of closing the rift and restoring his people to normal. His people had been transformed into Vampiric Lifeforce Energy draining humanoids who feed on the Midi-Chlorians of Force Sensitives by draining their blood.

The player assured the GM that as soon as he located the ancient artifact, he would return to his home world and use the artifact to close the rift and restore his people.

The player was persuasive and the GM was curious as to how this would play out, and he allowed the player to play the character. Within 3 sessions the player located the artifact and rather than return to his home world as soon as he could, he instead went about systematically unbalancing the campaign. When the GM called him on it, he accused the GM of railroading and being a bad GM.

We (the other players) didn't see the harm in allowing the character to have a little off world fun before returning to his home planet to complete a ritual that would effectively retire his character from the game. (The vampiric character was created specifically to save his people and close the rift). The GM prefers to maintain the peace so he agreed to allow the character to delay his return home.

A few sessions after that, we (the other players) regretted our decision. The Vanpiric character began to systematically destroy the campaign. The GM tried to stop it but by that time (for reasons that are far too detailed to go into without taking up a lot! more space) the player had become rude and hostile to any suggestion that his character was overpowered and disruptive. The player kept insisting that the GM was being unfair and singling him out just because his character was clever enough to outwit the GM's plans and the GM's NPCs.

Meanwhile, the other players said nothing and seemed to be enjoying the new power level that the player had introduced. But now we all see how this player has abused the game, rules, and GM's willingness to allow a player to play an unusual character. The rogue player does not see that he is doing anything wrong.

The GM has tried to amp up the power level of his campaign in an effort restore the balance. Each time he has attempted to do so, the power player has become biligerent and accusational.

At one point the GM was 'told' by that player that he would strand him at the game location if he tried to bring in anything that the player did not want brought in. In other words, anything the GM tried to use to re-establish control over the game the player of the Vampiric character shot down with threats.

The GM told the other players (since the one out of control won't listen to him anymore) that the next time the player threatens him over anything in-game, he is out of the game permanently and will never be allowed to play in any other game the GM holds.

(it might help the reader to know that the offensive player was the GMs only source of transportation up until recently, and we have been playing at the home of one of the other players.)

Now that I've filled you all in on the basics, I'd like your feedback as to what should be done in the future to prevent this type of abuse from happening again.

Just say no to munchkin players. This guy is being a jerk.

Etarnon

04-26-2012, 04:29 AM

Classic Narcissist. He wants power nobody else has, "Jedi, and Vampire" and once you try to take it away, you're wrong. You're the GM and he agreed, but so what, you're wrong anyway. If smearing like "Railroader" and "PC Nerf" doesn't fly, he threatens the GM and the game with lack of a ride, ie. cave in, GM, like you did, or we all stop playing.

Mistake 1, when the guy did not go back to planet, GM's JOB right there is enforce the contract. It's a NPC character for a minor arc. Next scenario, okay so that Jedi guy went back and saved his homewolrd, Period, end of story. What a great guy and warm fuzzies we have for him.

Too many people as GM let things like this slide because of poor boundaries.

He's not a 'tard or a jerk or an idiot, he's a manipulative person with a Personality Disorder. Nothing you do, say, or threaten will make him back down. If you dump him from the group, he "loses" and can't stand to lose, so the solution for future (since that was 3 years ago) Tell him firmly to go, he's not wanted, and don't come back. change your phone number. refer any other potential matters of stalking, etc to the police.

I say this as I had a guy I kicked out of a 3.5 game, he started mailing me dead animals, verbal sexual threats to my wife, etc till I got police involved. On the 1 year anniversary of him joining my game, he mailed me a "Birthday" card . "Happy Birthday." I would laugh if it didn't happen to me. Many people do not believe something like this can happen, that this only happens to women. Google it.

I have also had family members like this. they say one thing, you point out they are wrong/incorrect. They say, "No, I never said that." You might have it on video or tape. You show the tape they will flip out, at the evidence that they have a flaw and are wrong, and will be beyond agitated.

The guy obviously did not respect the GM. Prevention.. hard to do since they lie, cheat and steal to get in. and jump on and take advantage of any kind of weakness, lack of boundaries, or neeediness in the GM at hand. They will play on "You beg for players or need a game to feel wanted."

If you are a GM that likes to get along, and does not like confrontation, these guys will run all over you.

Part of being a game judge / referee, is to get in the face of someone that is potentially upset, and who isn't seeing the game in the context of it's a game, and has too much emotional involvement in the fate of the PC.

You have to be able to say, "No, you are badly hurt, in a coma, broken sword, lost ship, burned house...I have ruled. That's the way it is." A good player will see it as a plot twist and challenge. A poor player will say, you are screwing me over. Except unless GM is a killer GM, there is no screw over, that's all meta gaming.

If you can't do that, you'll have a real problem with the above personality type. Stick to your guns. It doesn't matter what the other players think. If so, you are not GMing the group is. If you are fair, it's a good call. If you are not fair and detached, you are not a good GM.

Holocron

04-26-2012, 10:19 AM

Dang... yeah, this original topic was posted over three years ago... I'm really glad now that I only ever gamed with my actual friends, and that they were all good dudes.

Etaron, wow... I'm sorry you had to go through such a terrible experience :'( I'm amazed and disgusted that something like that could actually happen to someone :(

In general, yeah good GM methods to enforce the GM's authority and support from the players is important, but, almost equally important I'd say is being selective about who you allow into your game.

straxus

04-29-2012, 01:09 PM

I say this as I had a guy I kicked out of a 3.5 game, he started mailing me dead animals, verbal sexual threats to my wife, etc till I got police involved. On the 1 year anniversary of him joining my game, he mailed me a "Birthday" card . "Happy Birthday." I would laugh if it didn't happen to me. Many people do not believe something like this can happen, that this only happens to women. Google it.

Glad that has not happened to me. I have had a few obnoxious players and obsessive ones that wanted to game EVERY day of the week, though none I have had to get the police involved to deal with.

I.J. Thompson, good to see another EVE player here. Cool to see one of the old school EVE avatar pics.