I have done roll on comparisons with two friends that both have Visions with nothing more than Ness Big Honkers, twin sucker intake, and a fuel controller, and they both could outrun me until 3500rpm, at which point, the gap starts narrowing and I start regaining ground. keep in mind, that's a 5th and 6th gear roll on. If I start with my RPM's at 3500, I take them. So, it's what you want... horsepower, or cruising / roll on torque. That was before I added the variable intake stack and timing wheel. Now roll ons are pretty close.

So, if we think about what you said, the torque loss seems to be a function of the airbox... not the cams. Would you agree?

So, if we think about what you said, the torque loss seems to be a function of the airbox... not the cams. Would you agree?

No, it was the cams. The other two bikes had the top filter. When my cams went in, I already had the top filter and PCV/Autotune. The ONLY change was the cams at that time, and I definitely felt the loss in low end, along with the kick in the pants as the revs came up !!! The variable intake adapter restored almost all of it... definitely a noticeable improvement! The timing gear, was the icing on the cake... made it just a hair snappier....

Ah, I see the source of your question.... the twin sucker intake (or Lloydz top filter) is NOT the same thing as the variable intake adapter.... the latter is a velocity stack contraption that bolts between the throttle body and the intake plate (not the intake cover).

I bet that is what Lloyd has planned for the X bikes. The Adjustable Intake System that would be mounted under the air filter he now sells. It would make sense since he already knows it works so well on the Vision's. It is a matter of making one fit the design of the X bike's backbone.

Looking forward to that. In the meantime I did order the timing advance unit.

Is +2 the magic number for the Vic 106 w/Lloydz cams?

Does it help in changing from, say, 91 or 93 octane down to 87 without losing power?

I bet that is what Lloyd has planned for the X bikes. The Adjustable Intake System that would be mounted under the air filter he now sells. It would make sense since he already knows it works so well on the Vision's. It is a matter of making one fit the design of the X bike's backbone.

Looking forward to that. In the meantime I did order the timing advance unit.

Is +2 the magic number for the Vic 106 w/Lloydz cams?

Does it help in changing from, say, 91 or 93 octane down to 87 without losing power?

On most 106 bikes, Kevin and Rylan are reporting good results at +4. I tried +4, but it just didn't feel quite right to me.... probably works ok in the cooler weather we are experiencing now, but I'm afraid it would ping like crazy in the summer, given that I could "make" my bike ping (using the stock timing gear) in our 95+ degree, ultra humid summer days. So, I backed down to +2. I can feel the difference over stock timing, and I should be able to mitigate ping in the summer without having to back it down. Keep in mind, that each bike is a little different. Rylan already posted that he had one bike that worked better with retarded timing, but most like advance. Anything with Lloydz ECU, and you don't want to go more than +2, since the ECU is already advancing spark.

Since I have the PC-V, I could go +4, then back timing off in varying increments above 2500rpm using the PC-V.... but, I'm waiting for the heat of summer to experiment with that.

Others, not using the Lloydz cams, have reported good results in cooler weather with the lower octane fuel.

I always run 91 octane, ethanol free most of the time. But, my '11 has: Ness twin sucker top filter, Victory performance front filter, Lloydz VM1-DR cams, Lloydz Adjustable Intake (stack), Lloydz timing gear, Ness Honkers, Stage 1 flash, and the PC-V with Autotune. I will also add that I put the PC-V and AT units on the bike right after I bought it. I do not recall EVER having had the upshift/downshift pops that others get. My buddy, with his '09 Vision, Ness Twin Sucker top filter, Ness Honkers, and Ness Bigshot fuel controller gets upshift and downshift pops all the time. But it has one of the best torque curves I've ever seen on what amounts to no more than a stage 1 intake/exhaust setup. I'm not sure what it is, but those '09's run really well!