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While I agree that Darkfall isn't what a lot of people class a sandbox to be.. you have to also admit that it also isn't like the themepark games. So.. saying it's either is wrong. We need more classifications.

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Originally posted by VannorWhile I agree that Darkfall isn't what a lot of people class a sandbox to be.. you have to also admit that it also isn't like the themepark games. So.. saying it's either is wrong. We need more classifications.

Why? Why this drive to have such hardline definitions of games? Can you people not deal in anything but one word shorthands when it comes to talking about things?

How many themeparks have absolutely no sandbox elements, or how many sandbox games have no themeparks ones? They are pretty much all hybrids.

Locking games into hardcore narrow definitons really dosen't help anyone. If anything, it's just the root cause of continous boring squabbles about what word means what.

Maybe we can just call them 'MMORPGs' and then talk about them in terms of elements?

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There are tons of different ways to get prowess, not just kill X mobs. You can get it by exploring, crafting, PVP, gathering, pretty much everything.

And in no other game you can find clans fighting over territory control, own cities, alliances forming, spies and generally the whole array of possibilities that darkfall politics offers

No other game?

EvE is a great game for anyone who enjoys deep crafting/politics/harsh rule sets BUT spaceships aren't for everyone.The combat and leveling system in EvE isn't for everyone.

Some won't enjoy clicking a button and watching their spaceship fire missiles for 5 minutes and others enjoy the prospect of never being able to be on equal footing v.s. a veteran player. A lot of players won't enjoy the 5-6 month wait before entering any T2 ship.

DFUW offers FPS combat, not enjoyed by everyone but enjoyed by the niche. Real meaning for crafters, no mob dropped gear. Player built cities, boats, houses. Full loot rule set with some safe zones.

The biggest difference between DFUW and EvE though has to be playing from the perspective of a person running around and actively dodged/aiming.

There are tons of different ways to get prowess, not just kill X mobs. You can get it by exploring, crafting, PVP, gathering, pretty much everything.

And in no other game you can find clans fighting over territory control, own cities, alliances forming, spies and generally the whole array of possibilities that darkfall politics offers

No other game?

EvE is a great game for anyone who enjoys deep crafting/politics/harsh rule sets BUT spaceships aren't for everyone. The combat and leveling system in EvE isn't for everyone.

Some won't enjoy clicking a button and watching their spaceship fire missiles for 5 minutes and others enjoy the prospect of never being able to be on equal footing v.s. a veteran player. A lot of players won't enjoy the 5-6 month wait before entering any T2 ship.

DFUW offers FPS combat, not enjoyed by everyone but enjoyed by the niche. Real meaning for crafters, no mob dropped gear. Player built cities, boats, houses. Full loot rule set with some safe zones.

The biggest difference between DFUW and EvE though has to be playing from the perspective of a person running around and actively dodged/aiming.

If in EVE PVP you click a button and wait then good sir you must've been playing another game. If you think tech 2 ships are a target you will wait but with the full tilt tiercide still going the power gaps between techs of ships is going down and some of the best price/bang ships nowadays are tech 1 cruisers :). Also if you think you'll never be on an equal footing with someone in EVE you will never be, it's your psychological block which makes you be inferior not the game (in the game there are few skills you will ever need to max out to be a capable fighter). True if you stand and click and the other guy with better skills then you stands and clicks you will lose but in EVE no one who pvps stands and clicks buttons, they play transversal velocities, dance underneath the tracking arcs of bigger guns, use electronic warfare to make themselves a harder target to hit, brute force into an enemy and discharge point blank palsma weapons for insane amounts of damage,etc.

The only point you were right in (objectively) was that spaceships is not for everyone, in all other aspects you were either partially or completely wrong and it is likely due to inexperience with the game.

There are tons of different ways to get prowess, not just kill X mobs. You can get it by exploring, crafting, PVP, gathering, pretty much everything.

And in no other game you can find clans fighting over territory control, own cities, alliances forming, spies and generally the whole array of possibilities that darkfall politics offers

No other game?

EvE is a great game for anyone who enjoys deep crafting/politics/harsh rule sets BUT spaceships aren't for everyone. The combat and leveling system in EvE isn't for everyone.

Some won't enjoy clicking a button and watching their spaceship fire missiles for 5 minutes and others enjoy the prospect of never being able to be on equal footing v.s. a veteran player. A lot of players won't enjoy the 5-6 month wait before entering any T2 ship.

DFUW offers FPS combat, not enjoyed by everyone but enjoyed by the niche. Real meaning for crafters, no mob dropped gear. Player built cities, boats, houses. Full loot rule set with some safe zones.

The biggest difference between DFUW and EvE though has to be playing from the perspective of a person running around and actively dodged/aiming.

If in EVE PVP you click a button and wait then good sir you must've been playing another game. If you think tech 2 ships are a target you will wait but with the full tilt tiercide still going the power gaps between techs of ships is going down and some of the best price/bang ships nowadays are tech 1 cruisers :). Also if you think you'll never be on an equal footing with someone in EVE you will never be, it's your psychological block which makes you be inferior not the game (in the game there are few skills you will ever need to max out to be a capable fighter). True if you stand and click and the other guy with better skills then you stands and clicks you will lose but in EVE no one who pvps stands and clicks buttons, they play transversal velocities, dance underneath the tracking arcs of bigger guns, use electronic warfare to make themselves a harder target to hit, brute force into an enemy and discharge point blank palsma weapons for insane amounts of damage,etc.

The only point you were right in (objectively) was that spaceships is not for everyone, in all other aspects you were either partially or completely wrong and it is likely due to inexperience with the game.

Just saying how it is, especially for newer players. Sure you need to actually move in EvE to avoid taking more damage etc etc but it's no where near as invigorating or fun as moving and aiming in an FPS style. Who wants to months upon months for more options to open up to you?

A character with 150,000 million + skill points, which takes 10 years to achieve? Will always have an advantage of you, a very large one too.

There are tons of different ways to get prowess, not just kill X mobs. You can get it by exploring, crafting, PVP, gathering, pretty much everything.

And in no other game you can find clans fighting over territory control, own cities, alliances forming, spies and generally the whole array of possibilities that darkfall politics offers

No other game?

EvE is a great game for anyone who enjoys deep crafting/politics/harsh rule sets BUT spaceships aren't for everyone. The combat and leveling system in EvE isn't for everyone.

Some won't enjoy clicking a button and watching their spaceship fire missiles for 5 minutes and others enjoy the prospect of never being able to be on equal footing v.s. a veteran player. A lot of players won't enjoy the 5-6 month wait before entering any T2 ship.

DFUW offers FPS combat, not enjoyed by everyone but enjoyed by the niche. Real meaning for crafters, no mob dropped gear. Player built cities, boats, houses. Full loot rule set with some safe zones.

The biggest difference between DFUW and EvE though has to be playing from the perspective of a person running around and actively dodged/aiming.

If in EVE PVP you click a button and wait then good sir you must've been playing another game. If you think tech 2 ships are a target you will wait but with the full tilt tiercide still going the power gaps between techs of ships is going down and some of the best price/bang ships nowadays are tech 1 cruisers :). Also if you think you'll never be on an equal footing with someone in EVE you will never be, it's your psychological block which makes you be inferior not the game (in the game there are few skills you will ever need to max out to be a capable fighter). True if you stand and click and the other guy with better skills then you stands and clicks you will lose but in EVE no one who pvps stands and clicks buttons, they play transversal velocities, dance underneath the tracking arcs of bigger guns, use electronic warfare to make themselves a harder target to hit, brute force into an enemy and discharge point blank palsma weapons for insane amounts of damage,etc.

The only point you were right in (objectively) was that spaceships is not for everyone, in all other aspects you were either partially or completely wrong and it is likely due to inexperience with the game.

there was a total of 1667 skill ranks back in 2011. Each rank was 256,000 SP and the maximum skill points was 426,752,000.

at 2700 SP/hour, it would take about 18 years to learn all skills to level 5.

at 2100 SP/hour, it would take 23.2 years to learn all skills to level 5.

Who's ready to click and wait for 18-23 years to max out their characters? ( I've got a long way to go...). Oh and by the way, if someone has played this game non-stop for the amount of time this game existed. They will always be better than you. Especially if those veterans have been playing for all 10 years. That's the advantage with a game that is centralized around a time-based skill system. So the big question is.... what game are you playing?

Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

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Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by VannorWhile I agree that Darkfall isn't what a lot of people class a sandbox to be.. you have to also admit that it also isn't like the themepark games. So.. saying it's either is wrong. We need more classifications.

Why? Why this drive to have such hardline definitions of games? Can you people not deal in anything but one word shorthands when it comes to talking about things?

How many themeparks have absolutely no sandbox elements, or how many sandbox games have no themeparks ones? They are pretty much all hybrids.

Locking games into hardcore narrow definitons really dosen't help anyone. If anything, it's just the root cause of continous boring squabbles about what word means what.

Maybe we can just call them 'MMORPGs' and then talk about them in terms of elements?

Hey....Your post contains no ranting or shameless propping up of any game.....Also, it kind of makes sense. Are you sure a post like this belongs on these forums?

There are tons of different ways to get prowess, not just kill X mobs. You can get it by exploring, crafting, PVP, gathering, pretty much everything.

And in no other game you can find clans fighting over territory control, own cities, alliances forming, spies and generally the whole array of possibilities that darkfall politics offers

No other game?

EvE is a great game for anyone who enjoys deep crafting/politics/harsh rule sets BUT spaceships aren't for everyone. The combat and leveling system in EvE isn't for everyone.

Some won't enjoy clicking a button and watching their spaceship fire missiles for 5 minutes and others enjoy the prospect of never being able to be on equal footing v.s. a veteran player. A lot of players won't enjoy the 5-6 month wait before entering any T2 ship.

DFUW offers FPS combat, not enjoyed by everyone but enjoyed by the niche. Real meaning for crafters, no mob dropped gear. Player built cities, boats, houses. Full loot rule set with some safe zones.

The biggest difference between DFUW and EvE though has to be playing from the perspective of a person running around and actively dodged/aiming.

If in EVE PVP you click a button and wait then good sir you must've been playing another game. If you think tech 2 ships are a target you will wait but with the full tilt tiercide still going the power gaps between techs of ships is going down and some of the best price/bang ships nowadays are tech 1 cruisers :). Also if you think you'll never be on an equal footing with someone in EVE you will never be, it's your psychological block which makes you be inferior not the game (in the game there are few skills you will ever need to max out to be a capable fighter). True if you stand and click and the other guy with better skills then you stands and clicks you will lose but in EVE no one who pvps stands and clicks buttons, they play transversal velocities, dance underneath the tracking arcs of bigger guns, use electronic warfare to make themselves a harder target to hit, brute force into an enemy and discharge point blank palsma weapons for insane amounts of damage,etc.

The only point you were right in (objectively) was that spaceships is not for everyone, in all other aspects you were either partially or completely wrong and it is likely due to inexperience with the game.

there was a total of 1667 skill ranks back in 2011. Each rank was 256,000 SP and the maximum skill points was 426,752,000.

at 2700 SP/hour, it would take about 18 years to learn all skills to level 5.

at 2100 SP/hour, it would take 23.2 years to learn all skills to level 5.

Who's ready to click and wait for 18-23 years to max out their characters? ( I've got a long way to go... *starts up a new account*)

Oh and by the way, if someone has played this game non-stop for the amount of time this game existed. They will always be better than you. Especially if those veterans have been playing for all 10 years.

I don't think there is anyone who has played non-stop for the last 10 years. Also your logic is on par with a elementary school's student right now, I have 7 years of experience in EVE, I can fit most sub-capital ships to their best potential (with my skillset) on the fly (excluding gallente ships, I can't even begin to make those work for some reason) but that person I mentioned in my last post who is barely in their 2nd year of EVE trumps me in PVP ability, I am more versatile due to having more paths open to me, the respective person has less but kicks my ass regardless, that's all the difference training in EVE does after you've reached "as good as it gets without going muy loco" flying a ship skills-wise (the only people who go muy loco are the ones who've hit their plateau in goal terms).

In terms of linear or not, I suppose some people could see that as sandbox/themepark, but thats not what I usually think defines them.

I always see sanboxes as having to allow for player content. A sandbox is a place where you go to build and create and destroy, then rebuild. Its still contained within walls, and theres usually still rules and limitations, so its not full freedom. Its more about player created towns and economy and other systems.

Whereas a themepark is a place where you follow along on developer created "rides" or content. This does lead to some amount of linear content, but like in GW2 case, it doesnt always. There are many options of which ride to go to first, but in the end youre still being guided to some degree.

There are tons of different ways to get prowess, not just kill X mobs. You can get it by exploring, crafting, PVP, gathering, pretty much everything.

And in no other game you can find clans fighting over territory control, own cities, alliances forming, spies and generally the whole array of possibilities that darkfall politics offers

No other game?

EvE is a great game for anyone who enjoys deep crafting/politics/harsh rule sets BUT spaceships aren't for everyone. The combat and leveling system in EvE isn't for everyone.

Some won't enjoy clicking a button and watching their spaceship fire missiles for 5 minutes and others enjoy the prospect of never being able to be on equal footing v.s. a veteran player. A lot of players won't enjoy the 5-6 month wait before entering any T2 ship.

DFUW offers FPS combat, not enjoyed by everyone but enjoyed by the niche. Real meaning for crafters, no mob dropped gear. Player built cities, boats, houses. Full loot rule set with some safe zones.

The biggest difference between DFUW and EvE though has to be playing from the perspective of a person running around and actively dodged/aiming.

If in EVE PVP you click a button and wait then good sir you must've been playing another game. If you think tech 2 ships are a target you will wait but with the full tilt tiercide still going the power gaps between techs of ships is going down and some of the best price/bang ships nowadays are tech 1 cruisers :). Also if you think you'll never be on an equal footing with someone in EVE you will never be, it's your psychological block which makes you be inferior not the game (in the game there are few skills you will ever need to max out to be a capable fighter). True if you stand and click and the other guy with better skills then you stands and clicks you will lose but in EVE no one who pvps stands and clicks buttons, they play transversal velocities, dance underneath the tracking arcs of bigger guns, use electronic warfare to make themselves a harder target to hit, brute force into an enemy and discharge point blank palsma weapons for insane amounts of damage,etc.

The only point you were right in (objectively) was that spaceships is not for everyone, in all other aspects you were either partially or completely wrong and it is likely due to inexperience with the game.

there was a total of 1667 skill ranks back in 2011. Each rank was 256,000 SP and the maximum skill points was 426,752,000.

at 2700 SP/hour, it would take about 18 years to learn all skills to level 5.

at 2100 SP/hour, it would take 23.2 years to learn all skills to level 5.

Who's ready to click and wait for 18-23 years to max out their characters? ( I've got a long way to go...). Oh and by the way, if someone has played this game non-stop for the amount of time this game existed. They will always be better than you. Especially if those veterans have been playing for all 10 years. That's the advantage with a game that is centralized around a time-based skill system. So the big question is.... what game are you playing?

You only bring a small subset of your skills to a fight in Eve. Points in energy weapons, capital ships, and mining for example do not gie you an advantage in a battleship with projectile weapons. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how Eve works.

There are tons of different ways to get prowess, not just kill X mobs. You can get it by exploring, crafting, PVP, gathering, pretty much everything.

And in no other game you can find clans fighting over territory control, own cities, alliances forming, spies and generally the whole array of possibilities that darkfall politics offers

No other game?

EvE is a great game for anyone who enjoys deep crafting/politics/harsh rule sets BUT spaceships aren't for everyone. The combat and leveling system in EvE isn't for everyone.

Some won't enjoy clicking a button and watching their spaceship fire missiles for 5 minutes and others enjoy the prospect of never being able to be on equal footing v.s. a veteran player. A lot of players won't enjoy the 5-6 month wait before entering any T2 ship.

DFUW offers FPS combat, not enjoyed by everyone but enjoyed by the niche. Real meaning for crafters, no mob dropped gear. Player built cities, boats, houses. Full loot rule set with some safe zones.

The biggest difference between DFUW and EvE though has to be playing from the perspective of a person running around and actively dodged/aiming.

If in EVE PVP you click a button and wait then good sir you must've been playing another game. If you think tech 2 ships are a target you will wait but with the full tilt tiercide still going the power gaps between techs of ships is going down and some of the best price/bang ships nowadays are tech 1 cruisers :). Also if you think you'll never be on an equal footing with someone in EVE you will never be, it's your psychological block which makes you be inferior not the game (in the game there are few skills you will ever need to max out to be a capable fighter). True if you stand and click and the other guy with better skills then you stands and clicks you will lose but in EVE no one who pvps stands and clicks buttons, they play transversal velocities, dance underneath the tracking arcs of bigger guns, use electronic warfare to make themselves a harder target to hit, brute force into an enemy and discharge point blank palsma weapons for insane amounts of damage,etc.

The only point you were right in (objectively) was that spaceships is not for everyone, in all other aspects you were either partially or completely wrong and it is likely due to inexperience with the game.

there was a total of 1667 skill ranks back in 2011. Each rank was 256,000 SP and the maximum skill points was 426,752,000.

at 2700 SP/hour, it would take about 18 years to learn all skills to level 5.

at 2100 SP/hour, it would take 23.2 years to learn all skills to level 5.

Who's ready to click and wait for 18-23 years to max out their characters? ( I've got a long way to go... *starts up a new account*)

Oh and by the way, if someone has played this game non-stop for the amount of time this game existed. They will always be better than you. Especially if those veterans have been playing for all 10 years.

I don't think there is anyone who has played non-stop for the last 10 years. Also your logic is on par with a elementary school's student right now, I have 7 years of experience in EVE, I can fit most sub-capital ships to their best potential (with my skillset) on the fly (excluding gallente ships, I can't even begin to make those work for some reason) but that person I mentioned in my last post who is barely in their 2nd year of EVE trumps me in PVP ability, I am more versatile due to having more paths open to me, the respective person has less but kicks my ass regardless, that's all the difference training in EVE does after you've reached "as good as it gets without going muy loco" flying a ship skills-wise (the only people who go muy loco are the ones who've hit their plateau in goal terms).

Oh ignorance is utterly bliss with you isn't it? You've got 7 years behind your belt and don't know that you'll always be better than a new player. That's just too funny! Your inability to comprehend how the game works is beyond funny. It's actually quite sad to hear from a 7 year vet that you can't handle a noobie who has only played for 2 years and so I say to each their own.

However, my statement still stands a player will always be better than someone who has just started. That's all there is to it. You should by 7 years have ~2/5 of the skills aquired by now. Which means your character is in every way possible better than that 2 year newbie (no offense).

Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

There are tons of different ways to get prowess, not just kill X mobs. You can get it by exploring, crafting, PVP, gathering, pretty much everything.

And in no other game you can find clans fighting over territory control, own cities, alliances forming, spies and generally the whole array of possibilities that darkfall politics offers

No other game?

EvE is a great game for anyone who enjoys deep crafting/politics/harsh rule sets BUT spaceships aren't for everyone. The combat and leveling system in EvE isn't for everyone.

Some won't enjoy clicking a button and watching their spaceship fire missiles for 5 minutes and others enjoy the prospect of never being able to be on equal footing v.s. a veteran player. A lot of players won't enjoy the 5-6 month wait before entering any T2 ship.

DFUW offers FPS combat, not enjoyed by everyone but enjoyed by the niche. Real meaning for crafters, no mob dropped gear. Player built cities, boats, houses. Full loot rule set with some safe zones.

The biggest difference between DFUW and EvE though has to be playing from the perspective of a person running around and actively dodged/aiming.

If in EVE PVP you click a button and wait then good sir you must've been playing another game. If you think tech 2 ships are a target you will wait but with the full tilt tiercide still going the power gaps between techs of ships is going down and some of the best price/bang ships nowadays are tech 1 cruisers :). Also if you think you'll never be on an equal footing with someone in EVE you will never be, it's your psychological block which makes you be inferior not the game (in the game there are few skills you will ever need to max out to be a capable fighter). True if you stand and click and the other guy with better skills then you stands and clicks you will lose but in EVE no one who pvps stands and clicks buttons, they play transversal velocities, dance underneath the tracking arcs of bigger guns, use electronic warfare to make themselves a harder target to hit, brute force into an enemy and discharge point blank palsma weapons for insane amounts of damage,etc.

The only point you were right in (objectively) was that spaceships is not for everyone, in all other aspects you were either partially or completely wrong and it is likely due to inexperience with the game.

there was a total of 1667 skill ranks back in 2011. Each rank was 256,000 SP and the maximum skill points was 426,752,000.

at 2700 SP/hour, it would take about 18 years to learn all skills to level 5.

at 2100 SP/hour, it would take 23.2 years to learn all skills to level 5.

Who's ready to click and wait for 18-23 years to max out their characters? ( I've got a long way to go...). Oh and by the way, if someone has played this game non-stop for the amount of time this game existed. They will always be better than you. Especially if those veterans have been playing for all 10 years. That's the advantage with a game that is centralized around a time-based skill system. So the big question is.... what game are you playing?

You only bring a small subset of your skills to a fight in Eve. Points in energy weapons, capital ships, and mining for example do not gie you an advantage in a battleship with projectile weapons. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how Eve works.

Huh, man I must be playing this game wrong... so should I scrap my 6 year old account and start from scratch or can I just truly suck it up and admit that there's always someone who's better than me?

Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

There are tons of different ways to get prowess, not just kill X mobs. You can get it by exploring, crafting, PVP, gathering, pretty much everything.

And in no other game you can find clans fighting over territory control, own cities, alliances forming, spies and generally the whole array of possibilities that darkfall politics offers

No other game?

EvE is a great game for anyone who enjoys deep crafting/politics/harsh rule sets BUT spaceships aren't for everyone. The combat and leveling system in EvE isn't for everyone.

Some won't enjoy clicking a button and watching their spaceship fire missiles for 5 minutes and others enjoy the prospect of never being able to be on equal footing v.s. a veteran player. A lot of players won't enjoy the 5-6 month wait before entering any T2 ship.

DFUW offers FPS combat, not enjoyed by everyone but enjoyed by the niche. Real meaning for crafters, no mob dropped gear. Player built cities, boats, houses. Full loot rule set with some safe zones.

The biggest difference between DFUW and EvE though has to be playing from the perspective of a person running around and actively dodged/aiming.

If in EVE PVP you click a button and wait then good sir you must've been playing another game. If you think tech 2 ships are a target you will wait but with the full tilt tiercide still going the power gaps between techs of ships is going down and some of the best price/bang ships nowadays are tech 1 cruisers :). Also if you think you'll never be on an equal footing with someone in EVE you will never be, it's your psychological block which makes you be inferior not the game (in the game there are few skills you will ever need to max out to be a capable fighter). True if you stand and click and the other guy with better skills then you stands and clicks you will lose but in EVE no one who pvps stands and clicks buttons, they play transversal velocities, dance underneath the tracking arcs of bigger guns, use electronic warfare to make themselves a harder target to hit, brute force into an enemy and discharge point blank palsma weapons for insane amounts of damage,etc.

The only point you were right in (objectively) was that spaceships is not for everyone, in all other aspects you were either partially or completely wrong and it is likely due to inexperience with the game.

there was a total of 1667 skill ranks back in 2011. Each rank was 256,000 SP and the maximum skill points was 426,752,000.

at 2700 SP/hour, it would take about 18 years to learn all skills to level 5.

at 2100 SP/hour, it would take 23.2 years to learn all skills to level 5.

Who's ready to click and wait for 18-23 years to max out their characters? ( I've got a long way to go...). Oh and by the way, if someone has played this game non-stop for the amount of time this game existed. They will always be better than you. Especially if those veterans have been playing for all 10 years. That's the advantage with a game that is centralized around a time-based skill system. So the big question is.... what game are you playing?

You only bring a small subset of your skills to a fight in Eve. Points in energy weapons, capital ships, and mining for example do not gie you an advantage in a battleship with projectile weapons. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how Eve works.

Huh, man I must be playing this game wrong... so should I scrap my 6 year old account and start from scratch or can I just truly suck it up and admit that there's always someone who's better than me?

Yes you are playing Eve wrong if you think skill point total determines how good you are.

There are tons of different ways to get prowess, not just kill X mobs. You can get it by exploring, crafting, PVP, gathering, pretty much everything.

And in no other game you can find clans fighting over territory control, own cities, alliances forming, spies and generally the whole array of possibilities that darkfall politics offers

No other game?

EvE is a great game for anyone who enjoys deep crafting/politics/harsh rule sets BUT spaceships aren't for everyone. The combat and leveling system in EvE isn't for everyone.

Some won't enjoy clicking a button and watching their spaceship fire missiles for 5 minutes and others enjoy the prospect of never being able to be on equal footing v.s. a veteran player. A lot of players won't enjoy the 5-6 month wait before entering any T2 ship.

DFUW offers FPS combat, not enjoyed by everyone but enjoyed by the niche. Real meaning for crafters, no mob dropped gear. Player built cities, boats, houses. Full loot rule set with some safe zones.

The biggest difference between DFUW and EvE though has to be playing from the perspective of a person running around and actively dodged/aiming.

If in EVE PVP you click a button and wait then good sir you must've been playing another game. If you think tech 2 ships are a target you will wait but with the full tilt tiercide still going the power gaps between techs of ships is going down and some of the best price/bang ships nowadays are tech 1 cruisers :). Also if you think you'll never be on an equal footing with someone in EVE you will never be, it's your psychological block which makes you be inferior not the game (in the game there are few skills you will ever need to max out to be a capable fighter). True if you stand and click and the other guy with better skills then you stands and clicks you will lose but in EVE no one who pvps stands and clicks buttons, they play transversal velocities, dance underneath the tracking arcs of bigger guns, use electronic warfare to make themselves a harder target to hit, brute force into an enemy and discharge point blank palsma weapons for insane amounts of damage,etc.

The only point you were right in (objectively) was that spaceships is not for everyone, in all other aspects you were either partially or completely wrong and it is likely due to inexperience with the game.

there was a total of 1667 skill ranks back in 2011. Each rank was 256,000 SP and the maximum skill points was 426,752,000.

at 2700 SP/hour, it would take about 18 years to learn all skills to level 5.

at 2100 SP/hour, it would take 23.2 years to learn all skills to level 5.

Who's ready to click and wait for 18-23 years to max out their characters? ( I've got a long way to go...). Oh and by the way, if someone has played this game non-stop for the amount of time this game existed. They will always be better than you. Especially if those veterans have been playing for all 10 years. That's the advantage with a game that is centralized around a time-based skill system. So the big question is.... what game are you playing?

You only bring a small subset of your skills to a fight in Eve. Points in energy weapons, capital ships, and mining for example do not gie you an advantage in a battleship with projectile weapons. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how Eve works.

Huh, man I must be playing this game wrong... so should I scrap my 6 year old account and start from scratch or can I just truly suck it up and admit that there's always someone who's better than me?

Yes you are playing Eve wrong if you think skill point total determines how good you are.

Your mindset is wrong to think that you do not have the upper hand on someone who hasn't played the game for a long as you.

Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

There are tons of different ways to get prowess, not just kill X mobs. You can get it by exploring, crafting, PVP, gathering, pretty much everything.

And in no other game you can find clans fighting over territory control, own cities, alliances forming, spies and generally the whole array of possibilities that darkfall politics offers

No other game?

EvE is a great game for anyone who enjoys deep crafting/politics/harsh rule sets BUT spaceships aren't for everyone. The combat and leveling system in EvE isn't for everyone.

Some won't enjoy clicking a button and watching their spaceship fire missiles for 5 minutes and others enjoy the prospect of never being able to be on equal footing v.s. a veteran player. A lot of players won't enjoy the 5-6 month wait before entering any T2 ship.

DFUW offers FPS combat, not enjoyed by everyone but enjoyed by the niche. Real meaning for crafters, no mob dropped gear. Player built cities, boats, houses. Full loot rule set with some safe zones.

The biggest difference between DFUW and EvE though has to be playing from the perspective of a person running around and actively dodged/aiming.

If in EVE PVP you click a button and wait then good sir you must've been playing another game. If you think tech 2 ships are a target you will wait but with the full tilt tiercide still going the power gaps between techs of ships is going down and some of the best price/bang ships nowadays are tech 1 cruisers :). Also if you think you'll never be on an equal footing with someone in EVE you will never be, it's your psychological block which makes you be inferior not the game (in the game there are few skills you will ever need to max out to be a capable fighter). True if you stand and click and the other guy with better skills then you stands and clicks you will lose but in EVE no one who pvps stands and clicks buttons, they play transversal velocities, dance underneath the tracking arcs of bigger guns, use electronic warfare to make themselves a harder target to hit, brute force into an enemy and discharge point blank palsma weapons for insane amounts of damage,etc.

The only point you were right in (objectively) was that spaceships is not for everyone, in all other aspects you were either partially or completely wrong and it is likely due to inexperience with the game.

there was a total of 1667 skill ranks back in 2011. Each rank was 256,000 SP and the maximum skill points was 426,752,000.

at 2700 SP/hour, it would take about 18 years to learn all skills to level 5.

at 2100 SP/hour, it would take 23.2 years to learn all skills to level 5.

Who's ready to click and wait for 18-23 years to max out their characters? ( I've got a long way to go... *starts up a new account*)

Oh and by the way, if someone has played this game non-stop for the amount of time this game existed. They will always be better than you. Especially if those veterans have been playing for all 10 years.

I don't think there is anyone who has played non-stop for the last 10 years. Also your logic is on par with a elementary school's student right now, I have 7 years of experience in EVE, I can fit most sub-capital ships to their best potential (with my skillset) on the fly (excluding gallente ships, I can't even begin to make those work for some reason) but that person I mentioned in my last post who is barely in their 2nd year of EVE trumps me in PVP ability, I am more versatile due to having more paths open to me, the respective person has less but kicks my ass regardless, that's all the difference training in EVE does after you've reached "as good as it gets without going muy loco" flying a ship skills-wise (the only people who go muy loco are the ones who've hit their plateau in goal terms).

Oh ignorance is utterly bliss with you isn't it? You've got 7 years behind your belt and don't know that you'll always be better than a new player. That's just too funny! Your inability to comprehend how the game works is beyond funny. It's actually quite sad to hear from a 7 year vet that you can't handle a noobie who has only played for 2 years and so I say to each their own.

However, my statement still stands a player will always be better than someone who has just started. That's all there is to it. You should by 7 years have ~2/5 of the skills aquired by now. Which means your character is in every way possible better than that 2 year newbie (no offense).

There is a fundamental flaw with your reasoning, which is probably why you don't understand Eve, something that is clearly evident from your arguments, which are nonsensical at best. I am a 9 year vet of Eve, been playing since, feb 2004, though i have taken a few breaks, currently running at 95m sp, and no, that doesnt make me godlike at PVP, anything but, PVP in Eve will always be governed by the players own tactical ability, nobody, can fit every single mod on their ship to give an overall superiority in every area, its just not possible and the game is not designed that way, and while you may be able to fit for optimum performance on missions, where the npc's are a known quantity, in pvp that is just not possible, until you at least understand why that is the case, then you really dont know Eve. Have to wonder though why DF players seem to feel that Eve is such a threat to their game that they try to mislead others about it, though whether its through ignorance or desperation, i really don't know.