<quoted text>Just re-reading some of your posts to me....and to be honest - this one, is very telling.1st you say you don't follow men, yet you believe the Bible - which was written by men - so if you don't believe men, you surely must ot believe the Bible.2ndly - you stated "explain how YOU avoid this following men"- again you will lean on this "avoidance", but yet don't realize that your conscious actually implied that you DO follow men, and is trying to figure out how "I avoid them".Simple answer Saban, don't believe everything that has been given to you. Research that which you have received. Research those who have written what you believe.Knowledge is power.But why even tell you this? I know you won't do any such things, and go on with believing what men have told you to believe.I'm starting to think you are nothing but a sock puppet of other men."Here, drink this, eat this, do this....all for Jesus....."yep - very telling.

You just placed words in my mouth again while avoiding a question. Same story different post.

Your so caught up in Thomas, but *I'm* the one following men?

If you weren't intellectually dishonest and an overall joke I'd continue, but wrestling swine only gets you muddy and I think I'll let you keep the mud hole to yourself and allow you to continue to gloat as the King of it.

If you ever wish to have an intellectual discussion where my words are my words and my answers are treated as answers, OK. Otherwise, well.. I will not join you in the insanity.

Just so you don't forget why you posted what you did....**********New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:If "All scripture is inspired by God", then they are just as valid.Unfortunately, MEN DECIDED that they could play "God" and choose what you are to believe or not.One does not need a specific religion to understand this.<quoted text>"perhaps"???- guessing is a man's function and you do it well.- Know the difference between "perhaps" and "actually occurred".Perhaps the HS guided men to write these texts so that they would not be segregated.Perhaps GoThomas is the key to all of what Jesus taught.Perhaps men changed the words in the NT, just to gain followers.Perhaps = speculation = SelfInterpretation is perception. Perception is Self.<quoted text>No - to think otherwise is to show that you have researched what you read, and not take for granted what other men have stated is true.Again, we've arrived at Self."To know your Self is to know the kingdom of God." - JesusWhy don't you believe Jesus? Are you afraid to believe these teachings? Why, what if you did?Do you think something bad will happen to you?- this is where your heirarchy has placed fear into your mind.- there is no fear to believe in Jesus or his teachings.<quoted text>Lots of questions you couldn't answer? Understandable. You haven't been taught these things.No problem. Take your time to research and learn about what I write. Salvation will only come once - when you die.

It's too bad the concept of the inspiration of the writers is so far above your head you can't grasp it.

<quoted text>Of course men wrote it; who would you expect? But men moved by God writing things that no man could know.Jesus said:"Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, you may believe that I am he." (John 13:19)If the thing written is fulfilled then it was God inspired.

Who do "Bible only" Protestants follow?The Holy Scriptures are the Word of God. This is admitted by Protestants generally. But it is clear that if the Scriptures are wrongly interpreted, they become the word of man. For, as the Protestant Bishop Walton says: "The Word of God does not consist in mere letters, whether written or printed, but in the true sense of it."This is also what St. Jerome (who was the first to translate the Bible into Latin) had said ages before: "Let us be persuaded that the Gospel consists not in the words but in the sense. A wrong explanation turns the Word of God into the word of man, and, what is worse, into the word of the devil; for the devil himself could quote the text of Scripture " Indeed, he did so when he tempted our Lord in the desert (Matt 4: 6).Those who confidently boast that they stand by the "Bible alone" imagine that to stand by the Bible alone means that they rely not upon human authority, but upon the Word of God.Certainly nothing can be better than to stand by the Word of God, but is what they call standing by the Bible alone, actually standing by the word of God?Firstly, the Bible, though divinely inspired, is but a written document, and a written document often so obscure, that St. Augustine, though so great a scholar, and a Doctor of the Church, confessed that there were more things in the Bible he did not understand than those he did.Secondly, the Bible, because it is a written document, always remains silent unless interpreted, that is, unless some meaning is affixed to the words, by someone. It is clear that the Bible cannot speak and interpret itself: you must take the Book in your hand, open it, read it, compare passages, and attach a certain meaning to the words in them.Therefore, when a Protestant says: "I stand by the Bible alone", he does not mean that he stands by the Bible uninterpreted - for in such case the Bible is mute.He does not mean that he stands by the Bible as interpreted by the Church - for that would be not the Protestant but the Catholic way.Nor does he mean that he stands by the Bible as interpreted by somebody else; as that would be - according to his notion - to give up his right of private interpretation.

And then he jumps on the internet to denigrate Catholics for being too wise to fall for any man's personal/private interpretation of their (the Catholic Church's!) own Book of Scripture! sniped

<quoted text>--<quoted text>-MY description? it's in the news, it's part of history, it's not MY description.-I'm not a liar, but the Pope is. He lied and covered up pedophilia in your church. Steer clear of him!-And I don't know who Helen White is.

Sounds like you're falsely accusing our last Pope. Benedict 16th. There is no evidence what-so-ever this man knew and/or covered up anything. Of course, you can search the world wide web and probably find some slander-cult-propaganda-laced essay, saying he did. And being an Ideologue, you'll latch on to it as fact.

A great man is stepping down tomorrow who served Jesus Christ his whole life. He is one of only 266 Bishops of Rome who had the honor of sitting in the chair of St.Peter. To put that in perspective, there have been a hundreds of thousands of paper Popes since the reformation. By the time a new Pope is elected, there will be hundreds more who assumed there own Papacy of whatever store front Church they opened. But we Catholics had only 266. And they were validly ordained in a lineage that the world has never duplicated. Amen.

<quoted text>What on Earth are you?Are you really trying to fool us into thinking we 'follow men' but you do not?You follow words ( I think) that were written by men.Men told you that Jesus said X. You believe them.Men said they knew Christ and wrote about Him. You believe them.Men said the Gospel of Thomas is a fake. You don't believe those men.Other men said GoThomas is authentic. You believe those men.Hmmm.Me? Yes I follow men. Men who are ordained in the Church that Jesus Christ started. This would be the Church that He promised "The Gates of Hell shall not prevail against it"Where else would I rather be then in this Church, surrounded by leaders who are all in communion with each other and are protected from error on teachings?Jesus will always guide our leaders to truth.(this does not mean they are exempt from sinning btw)

<quoted text>I'd give you ten thumbs up if I could. By the way I am a convert to the one holy Catholic and apostolic church. Praise God I found my way home!

denomination:(Christian Religious Writings / Theology) a group having a distinctive interpretation of a religious faith and usually its own organization...

The Catholics are a group having a distinctive interpretation of a religious faith and usually its own organization...

Christ never established any Christian denomination....Catholic..Prot estant...or otherwise....

And...Peter was the first pope of the Catholic Church, according to Catholics......but, according to historians, Leo I (440-461) was the first pope... some 400 years after Christ, per misled Catholics, made Peter the first pope!!!!

<quoted text>Of course men wrote it; who would you expect? But men moved by God writing things that no man could know.Jesus said:"Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, you may believe that I am he." (John 13:19)If the thing written is fulfilled then it was God inspired.

So why do you believe those men and "their" texts, but not others?

Many religions teach salvation it through "God" or some inter-median person.

It also shows that you only believe in part of what Jesus taught, therefore, you are misleading others about "believing in Jesus".

Honesty is embedded in all of this, but you refuse to acknowledge it. Why?

<quoted text>Sounds like you're falsely accusing our last Pope. Benedict 16th.There is no evidence what-so-ever this man knew and/or covered up anything.Of course, you can search the world wide web and probably find some slander-cult-propaganda-laced essay, saying he did. And being an Ideologue, you'll latch on to it as fact.A great man is stepping down tomorrow who served Jesus Christ his whole life. He is one of only 266 Bishops of Rome who had the honor of sitting in the chair of St.Peter. To put that in perspective, there have been a hundreds of thousands of paper Popes since the reformation. By the time a new Pope is elected, there will be hundreds more who assumed there own Papacy of whatever store front Church they opened. But we Catholics had only 266. And they were validly ordained in a lineage that the world has never duplicated.Amen.

He knew...he covered up as much as he could...

Pope Benedict took action on sex abuse, but some say not enoughHe spoke out against the abuse of children by priests and closed loopholes in canon law. But he refused to open Vatican records to outside scrutiny and rarely took action against his bishops and cardinals.February 11, 2013|By Mitchell Landsberg, Los Angeles Times

Time and again in his papacy, Pope Benedict XVI spoke out against the scourge of child sexual abuse by Roman Catholic priests, using words that would have been scarcely imaginable by his predecessors.

It was, he said, "evil," "gravely immoral," "a terrifying sign of the times." He spoke of the "deep shame" and "humiliation" the scandal had brought on the Catholic Church. He apologized to victims.

It does give one a better understanding of the meanings surrounding the sayings, the comparatives between GoLuke and GoMark and GoThomas - showing Thomas to also be more ancient in origin than any of the gospels.

But you don't want to know this, right?

I know - the dismay is overwhelming.

Clay wrote:

<quoted text>Other men said GoThomas is authentic. You believe those men.Hmmm.

No, I believe the facts surrounding those men and their decision to date the text.

Clay wrote:

<quoted text>Me? Yes I follow men. Men who are ordained in the Church that Jesus Christ started. This would be the Church that He promised "The Gates of Hell shall not prevail against it"

Men ordaining other men to teach other about a "God" they never met.

Yep - round and round they go.

Clay wrote:

<quoted text>Where else would I rather be then in this Church, surrounded by leaders who are all in communion with each other and are protected from error on teachings?

"Protected from error on teachings?" - Yeah, right. - Based upon the historical evidence available about your church, you really don't know your church's history, if you say this.

Clay wrote:

<quoted text>Jesus will always guide our leaders to truth.(this does not mean they are exempt from sinning btw)

<quoted text>Book of Daniel describes RCC?LolIf any group or person is foretold by Daniel and John, its Ellen G. White and the SDA cult. She claimed to be a prophet. She added to Johns Book of Revelation. You bit - hook, line and sinker.For some reason unbeknownst to normal thought, you chose to see the Catholic Church in Daniel and John. Simply put: you wanted to see the CC in those writings.If I wanted to see the Green Bay Packers in those prophecies, I'm sure I could.Your ideology came first. Then your opinion that the CC is the anti Christ came second. They were hidden for 1,800 yrs. or something.' God used the Beast to compile His Bible; He used their monks to hand copy it for over a thousand yrs, then the printing press released it to you and Ellen and the 45,000 others. Now you've unlocked the secret hidden meaning of the Christ and His Ministry!!Eh, this would barely make it in a Dan Brown novel .

Daniel 8:12.

And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

Genesis 11

7 Come, let us go down, and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

"And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you." Matthew 24:4

Now in Revelation we have a description of Satan as the accuser of the Brethren. "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And i heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night."Revelation 12:9-10

<quoted text>So why do you believe those men and "their" texts, but not others?Many religions teach salvation it through "God" or some inter-median person.It also shows that you only believe in part of what Jesus taught, therefore, you are misleading others about "believing in Jesus".Honesty is embedded in all of this, but you refuse to acknowledge it. Why?

<quoted text>Daniel 8:12.And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.Genesis 117 Come, let us go down, and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another's speech."And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you." Matthew 24:4Now in Revelation we have adescription of Satan as the accuser of the Brethren."And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And i heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night."Revelation 12:9-10

Whoa. We were talking about the Book of Daniel. Then you just shot from Daniel to Genesis back up to Matthew, then finally landed on the Book of Revelation.Still, no evidence of the Roman Catholic Church being the beast anymore then the Green Bay Packers.I think you should turn in your Bible now. Do it before the next Apocalyptic doomsday meeting at your compound.

<quoted text>Sabanwhy do you debate with catholics? You guys believe alot of the same.Salvation:faithworksbaptism*where you may disagree is, you both believe you belong to the true church.

Matthew 15:

3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? 3 Jesus replied, "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God commanded , saying , Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. 4 For God said,'Honor your father and mother' and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.' 5 But ye say , Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; 5 But you say that if a man says to his father or mother,'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,' 6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. 6 he is not to 'honor his father ' with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying , 7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 8 " 'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'" 10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear , and understand : 10 Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. 11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

Revelation 2:5.

Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Revelation 14

14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

<quoted text>A person. You are off-topic.<quoted text>I don't follow men. I belong to no organization, except one - the one you call "the Church". You know - that invisible entity that combines all who believe in Jesus - into one "body".Well not really a body, but a spiritual mentality.You do understand this, right?<quoted text>I don't follow anyone. How many more times do I need to say this?<quoted text>No - I believe what Jesus stated. I've researched what Jesus stated and the morals he taught I follow.Do you understand this?<quoted text>I don't believe in the "Christ" figure your religion states "happened".Although humans do come back from the dead regularly, as with this gent....http://www.send2press.com/newswire/2005-02-02...Funny thing about it, he'll be on this planet for more than 40 days, telling his story, but you won't accept him to be any special person. Why not? He fits the criteria of a "Christ" figure.The paradoxes of religion continue.<quoted text>No one has called it a fake, they only state that it was man-made centuries later.If one is to study "Q" - one will find that these sayings in and out of the Bible have been around for quite sometime - even before Jesus was born.This book describes the multiple layers embedded into the sayings of Jesus, how they came about, and why they are classified into "layers".http://www.amazon.com/Lost-Gospel-Book-Christ...It does give one a better understanding of the meanings surrounding the sayings, the comparatives between GoLuke and GoMark and GoThomas - showing Thomas to also be more ancient in origin than any of the gospels.But you don't want to know this, right?I know - the dismay is overwhelming.<quoted text>No, I believe the facts surrounding those men and their decision to date the text.<quoted text>Men ordaining other men to teach other about a "God" they never met.Yep - round and round they go.<quoted text>"Protected from error on teachings?"- Yeah, right.- Based upon the historical evidence available about your church, you really don't know your church's history, if you say this.<quoted text>Self. Thanks for explaining it very simply.But you don't believe this to be true. Why?

Men men men men men menly men men men.lol

The "2 1/2 men" theme song. I hate that show.

Question: if you look at writings, by men, and determine YOURSELF what they mean. Wouldn't you be listening to men? Are you not a man?

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