I'm keen on knowing what the deal is with EK and North America, particularly the US. EK can do a lot of expansion into the US with huge amounts of cargo, especially in large cities like ORD and MIA. What's the deal?

My take is that DXB isn't as brilliant of a connecting hub for North American traffic flows. I spoke with someone here in SEA who took EK from SEA-BKK. It was cheaper for them than flying via ICN or NRT, the two most logical connecting hubs, in fact the routing is 1/3 longer.

Now DXB is more reasonable hub for connecting to Africa, and its a brilliant hub for connecting to the south Asian sub-continent, but those regions aren't very strong for US traffic flows.

Here I go...
1) Location. DXB isn't great for North American passengers. Most pax are to Europe or Pacific Asia. Better served in other places.
2) Among the general US population, EK isn't a big name. This is partly due to the lack of strong US presence, but EK ismuch more known in Europe and Asia.
3) Our types of flying. US rail service sucks! We fly for business waaayy too much. I like it that way, but it makes us quite often devoted Frequent Fliers. Ut might actually help on this front if EK had alliances or codeshares more than B6 in the US. We have our airline.
4) Our hell bent patriotism. I know people who would rather take US than BA just because it is a US airline and therefore "better." Also, the words "middle east" conjure terroristic images. This has noooooo bearing, especially in the UAE, but we won't change easily.
All that said...There is a market. The US is a major hole in a rapidly expanding EK network. We will see expansion in the US.

EK's revenue ex-North America has done well, but as others have noted, its only to certain destinations. Out of LAX, the planes (now down to 1X/day) seem to do quite well. JFK and IAH also do well. Does anyone know how IAD is doing? How about DFW?

What a concept to have this thread as it wasn't that long ago that EK started JFK as the first mid-east to US route back in 2004! Look how much they've grown to the America's in less than a decade. There is obviously demand.

The weakest of the North America destinations. I expect it to be dropped eventually. Occasionally EK does mis-predict demand. But as a 'numbers run' airline, they identify and correct their mistakes. e.g., dropping one flight from LAX until the economy recovers.

I believe there is a lull until the mid-2013 deliveries of the high MTOW A388s with the wing twist. Those will have far better economics for DXB-Americas. They should bring SFO and LAX into A388 range. That will free up a number of long haul 777s for expansion.

Quoting Prost (Reply 2):Now DXB is more reasonable hub for connecting to Africa, and its a brilliant hub for connecting to the south Asian sub-continent, but those regions aren't very strong for US traffic flows.

Maybe its living in Los Angeles, but I cannot swing a cat in a restaurant without hitting someone who will fly EK to those destinations within 60 days. Perhaps for other cities, but for IT outsourcing, "Bollywood", and trade, there is big demand to the sub-continent. The flows to Africa aren't huge, but with the rise of 'eco-tourism,' I know tons going that way. Yea... Ironic, but that is its own thread.

EK will expand. I envision the upgraded 380s replacing 777s on to add capacity and overall reduce the A380 cost per flight. Don't forget EK has a lot of 77Ws and 350s on order. Great for testing the waters in the US.

QR is joining OW. As far as connections go, AA has large cities/destinations for hubs. Good O&D and connections. AA is probably looking for ways to get any revenue and would probably sign an agreement. Also, codeshares aren't just one airline saying "fly my pax!" Its a deal. AA wants it, UA is focusing more on East Asia. US has a QR codeshare. The airlines will go with the best codeshares.

Quoting Prost (Reply 2):My take is that DXB isn't as brilliant of a connecting hub for North American traffic flows

Correct. It isnt because its located to far to the east for Europe, most of the middle east and Africa. Its ideal for connections to places like India, pakistan, yemen, even saudi. However, most traffic into DXB does not come from North America. EK makes lots of money tranfering people between Europe and Asia. If u noticed, EK has some of the longest routes from North America in general, being a gulf carrier and not having to pay high fuel prices contributes to routes like DXB-SFO/LAX/DFW/IAH being sucessful, Along with cargo. I can only see them adding 3-4 more cities in North America before they spread themselves too thin in the market. ORD will be announched sooner than later, BOS, DTW, MEX(hot and high),MIA are most likely

Who Will EK with at ORD for connections? Can ORD support all 3 gulf carriers going daily along with RJ, TK, and with AI to india? gonna get crouded to that region soon, it would be great for ORD to keep them all

DXB-USA are also ULH routes. It is easier to make profitable (and set more frequencies) much shorter routes to Europe and Asia.

Some European routes are actually very short. DXB-ATH is 2000 nm, that's the same distance as IAD-LAS. DXB-FCO is just similar to a LAX-BOS. DXB-LON (which has 7 or 8 daily flights with EK, 5 with A380) is the same length as LON-NYC.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 19):Rumor has it Boston and Miami are next. Daily to BOS from 02-Jul-13 and daily to Miami from 01-Oct-13.

EK has a 1 hub operation, they dont pay taxes on fuel bought from the UAE. This allows them to have a advantage in the long haul market, as well as operate so many widebodies. I Live in a oil rich country, thats how they do business.

Quoting thekennady (Reply 28):EK has a 1 hub operation, they dont pay taxes on fuel bought from the UAE. This allows them to have a advantage in the long haul market, as well as operate so many widebodies. I Live in a oil rich country, thats how they do business.

So, it was unfounded garbage. Here's two bits of news for you. 1) No commercial airline pays tax on aviation fuel. It's against the Warsaw pact. 2) Dubai has very, very little in the way of oil - it's Abu Dhabi who's got the vast majority of the UAE black gold.

So unless you can offer proof that EK buys fuel at less than market rates in DXB, suggest a bit of neck rewinding might be in order.

From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove

The Warsaw pact was an Eastern Block military counterpart to NATO What you mean is the Chicago convention and its various amendments and follow up conventions, which took place in various cities, Montreal for instance and IIRC Warsaw as well.

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 29):So unless you can offer proof that EK buys fuel at less than market rates in DXB,

EK pays market rates. What they benefit from in their home country is, that the airline, the regulatory board, the infrastructure, basically everything that makes it tricky and expensive for US or European operators, is, in the UAE, in one hand. What goes throiugh the legal and judiciary systems for instance in Germany in 20 years, goes through one head in 20 seconds. Nice short cut in decision making.

Quoting thekennady (Reply 20):EK has some of the longest routes from North America in general, being a gulf carrier and not having to pay high fuel prices contributes to routes like DXB-SFO/LAX/DFW/IAH being sucessful

Cause EK doesn't refuel at IAH or Lax correct? They carry fuel for both legs of journey! That is a baseless claim honestly even if your statement was true they would still pay the same cost as any American airline on the way back! Not counting the extra fuel burn that EK needs to swallow just to be able to have the necessary fuel to get to DXB!

I could also see DXB carrying some people to East Africa! Granted it is a bit of a detour compared to Europe but if the price is right it works! High density planes, controlled CASM does wonders for an airline like EK!

EK curently flies to JFK, IAD, IAH, DFW, LAX, SFO and SEA. Boston, Miami, and Chicago are really the only cities missing in the USA from their route map. Some cities like Atlanta and Detroit could see EK flights, but do they wan to fly to Delta controled hubs ? ATL to Dubai is already flown by DL.

Quoting thekennady (Reply 22):Who Will EK with at ORD for connections? Can ORD support all 3 gulf carriers going daily along with RJ, TK, and with AI to india? gonna get crouded to that region soon, it would be great for ORD to keep them all

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 6):Maybe its living in Los Angeles, but I cannot swing a cat in a restaurant without hitting someone who will fly EK to those destinations within 60 days. Perhaps for other cities, but for IT outsourcing, "Bollywood", and trade, there is big demand to the sub-continent. The flows to Africa aren't huge, but with the rise of 'eco-tourism,' I know tons going that way. Yea... Ironic, but that is its own thread.

For info, EK is doing real well with some Africa destinations from LAX.
For example to both ADD and NBO, EK is now the market share leader in O&D. To ADD its about 32% of the market and 36% to NBO.

EK flies to surprisingly large number of US destinations considering the distance to DXB and viable connections only to Indian subcontinent, Middle East, Africa and SE Asia. It has managed to capture the majority share to the Indian subcontinent from most cities it operates. The traffic flows on US - India is significant from any major US city.

Where are you getting this info from? Is this already uploaded in the GDS? Miami does not have the yields to support EK's mostly premium products. Keep in mind that EK does not have any high-density configured planes to make a flight to MIA feasible.

Where are you getting this info from? Is this already uploaded in the GDS? Miami does not have the yields to support EK's mostly premium products. Keep in mind that EK does not have any high-density configured planes to make a flight to MIA feasible.

1) Average fares between Miami and the Arabian Gulf are very high. The premium-configured EK planes will have little problem from Miami. Why do you make stuff up constantly?
2) EK actually does have high-density planes for lower yielding markets. So, again, why are you making stuff up?

Quoting vinniewinnie (Reply 31):Cause EK doesn't refuel at IAH or Lax correct? They carry fuel for both legs of journey! That is a baseless claim honestly even if your statement was true they would still pay the same cost as any American airline on the way back! Not counting the extra fuel burn that EK needs to swallow just to be able to have the necessary fuel to get to DXB!

I have to agree that cannot be done.
However, if they do get fuel subsidizing for one leg of the trip (out of Dubai) that is a competitive advantage and would generate profits. That would not surprise me with this airline.

However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results

Not paying tax on that fuel is not EK getting an unfair advantage, it's EK being strategically positioned in a tax free environment. EK pays fair taxes at all destinations and receives no government subsidies.

I can tell you, no airline makes it big off of long-haul. Most airlines have long-haul because alliances want them to keep it for connections. Look at RJ for example. I know for fact that RJ hemorrhages on AMM-ORD during the off-season, and they could easily move it to a summer only operation, but AA (OW) wants it for the connections to DFW, LAX, MIA and SEA. Another key reason why EK succeeds, the lack of alliance.

EK is a fair player, just look at high fuel prices affecting EK 2000-2011.

Just because the fares are high does not mean its a high-yielding market. What Gulf companies or corporations are based in Miami? What ties does Miami have to the Indian Subcontinent? Grant, there a sizable South Asian population in Dade-county but that market is already well served by LH/AF/BA through their European hubs. I think if Miami was such an important destination it would have been served years ago. Whenever EK or any gulf carrier announces new destinations MIA is never mentioned nor even hinted at. The only carrier who showed any interest was TK back in 2011, but nothing has developed since.

Quoting miaintl (Reply 44):Just because the fares are high does not mean its a high-yielding market.

When the average one-way fare exceeds $1,500, as it does in MIADXB, then, yes, it's a high-yielding market. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

Quoting miaintl (Reply 44):What Gulf companies or corporations are based in Miami?

Well, first of all, there is Dubai World, who owns half of the Fountain Blue. Maybe you've heard of it? It's Miami's biggest hotel. Further, in 2011, there was approximately $1.5B in trade between the UAE and Florida, making Florida one of the UAE's biggest trading partner in the U.S. after only California, Texas and New York.

I'm not here to do your homework. The business ties are there, especially in tourism and shipping industries, and only getting stronger, as Dubai-based investors and multinationals have been a primary driving force in Miami's recent construction boom.

Quoting miaintl (Reply 44):What ties does Miami have to the Indian Subcontinent?

Citrix Systems and some entertainment industry connections, but the market is largely VFR, like most U.S.-India.

Who knows? We may soon be seeing EK into HNL, RDU, SAT and IND........

Very interesting list.... So basically the largest markets not served by Emirates would be ATL, ORD, BOS, MIA and MCO. Interesting to note that SEA is served but is smaller than all the ones mentioned except MCO. Not only that but ATL has service from DL and ORD has other gulf carriers.... So that leaves BOS and MIA as the next possible destinations? Very interesting...

EDIT: After reviewing the list a bit more it seems JFK, IAH, LAX and IAD all have significantly higher passenger counts than the other destinations... Would be a good comparison to see these numbers before EK entered the market...