You, my friend, get a gold star AND a round of applause for putting your finger on a VERY sore point. This has been the issue for a long time, and one that needs to be addressed.

First and foremost: the story: there MUST be a way for ALL to see the story and lore from start to finish. RThere are people campaigning to remove cutscenes and lore from LFR FFS, like the guy that kicked and screamed that HOW DARE Blizzard put the Lich King video up for the "scrubs that didnt deserve to see it". People dont deserve to see the end of the story?

WTH?

(No, I am not joking. That post was on the forums.)

Second: "You dont need raid gear" sadly has become synonymous with "you dont need x or y thats for me only" which gets a lot of people backs up. Had one guy tell me "You dont need cooking"- yes I do. I dont turn up to raid and expect others to have my foods there..I make them myself. Thats simple common courtesy to the raid team. Yes, others bring feasts, but I do too, thats one way I contribute to the team. Telling other players "you dont need this you shouldnt have it" - serves to do nothing but piss people off.

Sorry but its true.

Thirdly, raid gear / better gear is synonymous with progression: gear is part of progression and always has been. both for the character and the game as a whole. I may not raid, but I may and usually do other difficult content, and raid gear has set bonuses and stats that do make it easier to manage.

No one questions that either.

This : "you dont need "x" sounds selfish and in a way it is.. "this is mine you arent allowed to have it"..I submit that raid gear serves mnore than one purpose. MikePreach did a new video on LFR, and that smug, self assured, puffed up little......argghhh....raid gear and progression walk hand in hand on more than one level.

So yes, I agree. Alternative modes that tell the story AND provide a way for other players to progress outside of raids is needed. Desperately.

Lastly, I want to touch one other point: its been said sneeringly that "most players are mediocre" as if its some kind of disability. It's true. They are. Not everyone will reach the top 1%, and time commitment and gameplay commitment varies wildly depending on a huge range of factors. I dont subscribe to this "you are bad" mentality, yes there is a competitive edge in any MMO, thats a granted, but to me the average player is what makes up WOW in a huge percentile.

(Please dont use the word "entitled", its a meme and all it does is make people seem like snobs. No one feels "entitled". No one.)

I have always been raised to believe I have one person to compete against: me. I am my only real enemy. I stand or fall based on what I do...or dont do. Not everyone is the same, not everyone will reach the top, many will make the effort,many will not try....thats human nature.

Years ago I read a book by Hugh Miller, "Ambulance". Nothing to write home about, an average novel. At the end, however, was a phrase that shook me to the core. When we turn to competition, this is always with me. (I am quoting from memory as I cant find it...probably jettisoned when I moved house. I HATE losing books )

"When you climb a mountain, nothing is sweeter than the taste of victory. But that climb itself must never be for you alone,you must help others, and allow yourself to be helped on the way. Only then will that victory be able to be shared amongst all those you have encountered on the way. If not, it will be a sad, lonely trek on the way down, for no one will be there to walk with you"

You, my friend, get a gold star AND a round of applause for putting your finger on a VERY sore point. This has been the issue for a long time, and one that needs to be addressed.

I believe it to be even more complicated than all of that. The additional issue that fuckwads miss is how powerful "collecting" is in the game. Only two maybe 3 classes can solo farm LK for Invincible. The core concept is every Expansion, things you missed in the previous expansion become more likely to be solo'd or two-maned later. This means that a lot of content isn't completely dead... just dead at level.

However, in order to bridge that game, gear is needed. The better gear you have, the more likely the success, and the happier those players are as the perception of a goal completion increases. What "Raiders" ignore is that since nearly all other aspects of this game are dependent on "Player killing mobs" the better the gear they have the more efficient they become and that makes those players happy. If they are denied any speed increase over the interval, often they get bored, depressed, and lose interest. This causes subscription losses and thus a loss of revenue.

Raiders have had things way too fucking easy since moving out of Vanilla and TBC and the fact that they keep bitching about other sections getting a break really makes me wish for a decent fucking rival to come along and pull all the casuals away, allowing wow to financially crumble... because fuck assholes.

Well, people don't get raiding gear if they do not gear usually so where is the problem?
By removing the tier set from LFR, Blizz is inciting LFR to try normal difficulty with their new group finder.

However during MOP, I stood for valor points not being for raiders only. It was so idiot to tie 5.2. valor gear to raid rep. Those who got valor gear by doing quests in 5.0/5.1 had nowhere to go in 5.2. And it was a pretty serious fail. For me 5.0. dailies were great because I like dailies and I was able to get decent raiding quality gear - progression, thank you. outside raiding.

"When you climb a mountain, nothing is sweeter than the taste of victory. But that climb itself must never be for you alone,you must help others, and allow yourself to be helped on the way. Only then will that victory be able to be shared amongst all those you have encountered on the way. If not, it will be a sad, lonely trek on the way down, for no one will be there to walk with you"

I have tried to put this as best I can. Hope it makes sense.

That's all well and good. But if you take dynamite to the mountain and make it into a small hill. Kinda takes from climbing the mountain doesn't it?

That's all well and good. But if you take dynamite to the mountain and make it into a small hill. Kinda takes from climbing the mountain doesn't it?

Well, to a group of experienced mountain climbers of course EVERYTHING will look like a hill. They will want better, harder, taller mountains with exclusive rewards for them and their co-climbing friends. I get that you pushing to make your point.. but think of the casual housewife with kids that wants to enjoy climbing to the top too. She can't.

All of those badass climbers keep telling her that it is NOTHING for her to strap some gear on and climb next to them. And I appreciate them trying to motivate her.. but her current gear is crap, her time is limitted, she needs to take care of the kids, cannot spend enough resources gearing up and does not want to pay the experienced guys to boost her to the top. All she want is to mildy enjoy some climbing, watch the view and get a decent recolored snapshot of it to show her friends..

LFR was like taking the scenic route to a lower point from the top and getting to enjoy the experience. Yes, it was full of screaming kids, garbage.. there was not good enough spots to sit on or decent snacks for sale.. but at least she got to do it and be happy for it.

Instead of making the casual experience worse, they should facilitate it better. Yes, give more thrill to the hardcore climbers, but give back to the people on the lower spot cheering for them too.

They are honestly going about it the wrong way..

Just because it is easy for experienced seasoned climbers to do it (who know what needs to be done), does not mean it will be the same for everyone.

Well, to a group of experienced mountain climbers of course EVERYTHING will look like a hill. They will want better, harder, taller mountains with exclusive rewards for them and their co-climbing friends. I get that you pushing to make your point.. but think of the casual housewife with kids that wants to enjoy climbing to the top too. She can't.

All of those badass climbers keep telling her that it is NOTHING for her to strap some gear on and climb next to them. And I appreciate them trying to motivate her.. but her current gear is crap, her time is limitted, she needs to take care of the kids, cannot spend enough resources gearing up and does not want to pay the experienced guys to boost her to the top. All she want is to mildy enjoy some climbing, watch the view and get a decent recolored snapshot of it to show her friends..

LFR was like taking the scenic route to a lower point from the top and getting to enjoy the experience. Yes, it was full of screaming kids, garbage.. there was not good enough spots to sit on or decent snacks for sale.. but at least she got to do it and be happy for it.

Instead of making the casual experience worse, they should facilitate it better. Yes, give more thrill to the hardcore climbers, but give back to the people on the lower spot cheering for them too.

They are honestly going about it the wrong way..

Just because it is easy for experienced seasoned climbers to do it (who know what needs to be done), does not mean it will be the same for everyone.

Your still able to do all that and get gear.

"Of all the animals, man is the only one that is cruel. He is the only one who inflicts pain for the pleasure of doing it." - Mark Twain

Competly disagree because the question is as shallow as it can be. People need a sense of progression, which in WoW sadly is restricted to gear and gear alone. Gear is the only thing that makes you feel like you are advancing in any way, hence a certain amount of gear upgrades over time is neccesary so people feel like they are progressing.

They took out the tier and pro trinkets because of all the people who hadn't got them from a higher difficulty had to go back to LFR to get a tiny upgrade. I agree with this. LFR is for those who wants to see what the raid is like, but can't commit to real raiding.

I kind of agree. I periodically go through breaks from raiding myself, and when that happens then my gear is basically just good for showing off in LFR.

That said, I do feel like the sense of character progression is a little lacking for non-raiders. There are some fun options already like battle pets, but they're more of "account progression" than character progression as they don't really progress any particular character really. (Though those of us who farm the Celestial Tournament weekly would love to get another "tier" for our pets!) There's other stuff like archaeology, reputation grinds, achievements etc. but they're all based on grinding. Surely, there's a better way.

I've always liked the idea of alternative progression like Wildstar is doing with their Path system, or the way Rift has developed their dimensions where people can just go crazy and build whatever they like. I'm hoping garrison will offer some of that.