Yeah I'm moving on, I sounded like an ass and for that I apologize to the others but their logic is obviously bendable. They use bendable logic not straight forward and sturdy logic.

Well this one in movie 6 is A LOT less implied than the movie 5 hax. I've already said that much is clear. There's not some flat out statement where Goku is said to have be capable of defeating Final Form Cooler or anything. If Meta Cooler had said after fighting base Goku that his power is greater than his own (cooler's power) back on EArth in movie 5..then it would be more like movie 5's outright hax IMO,.

But anyways.

We just have Meta Cooler outright stating he's greatly powered up and then base Goku attempts to fight him...in base.

My opinion wasn't formed on the basis that it's non-disprovable. It's backed up by logic that you simply don't agree with. There's a difference that you need to appreciate.

yeah I know, that was Mish's logic about another thing months ago.

Your logic is that power statements are suddenly "up for interpretation" and can also mean they are suppressed.

So for instance Freeza could be the strongest in the Universe....those statements can mean he's just the strongest next to ultra suppressed fighters, lol

So if SSJ Trunks can suppresses himself down to 5, then all Freeza has to do is be stronger than 5 and that title of being the former Strongest in the universe is his. Well according to your logic at least, lol

Coola said, "you do well enough to have beaten my brother." It's indirect, vague, and up for interpretation.

If Coola instead said, "yes, your power is greater than Freeza's in every way!" Then that'd be the end of it. But he didn't.

That is all.

Now as for movie 6... I mentioned originally that I'd say it's just the same sort of thing. The base-level "warm-up" fight is there for dramatic effect. It'd be boring if the hero always cut loose and pulled out his hidden power to defeat the big bad guy right at the beginning.

No, you're using strawman tactics in an attempt to make my logic look stupid. My opinion that Cooler was referring to suppressed Freeza is backed up by the fact that Goku was in base when the comment is made.

No, you're using strawman tactics in an attempt to make my logic look stupid. My opinion that Cooler was referring to suppressed Freeza is backed up by the fact that Goku was in base when the comment is made.

That's not exactly proof of anything, but I see what you mean. Given that the movie is built and narrated as a parallel to the Freeza fight, then Goku's power in each would be similar.

Coola said, "you do well enough to have beaten my brother." It's an indirect quote that's up for interpretation.

If Coola said, "yes, your power is greater than Freeza's in every way!" Then that'd be the gist of it.

There's nothing to interpret about it...the power base Goku just displayed against Cooler is enough to have beaten Freeza.

Goku did not use a Kienzan or Spirit Bomb or anything either against Cooler, so even that type of thinking you can thow out the window.

For me, power quotes are facts and mean full power unless contradicted (for instance Mr. Satan being the strongest in the world is contradicted, so we can throw that quote out the window).

If you don't use that logic, then Obviously I can just make up my own rules an conjecture and suddenly Freeza can have a power level of 10, lol. You may think well sure but Victorious you saying Freeza has a powerlevel of 10 is being really ridiculous and following that logic im trying to apply here with Cooler to fanatical depths, but still...it's the same logic none the less.

Anyways, even if Cooler did not say that quote..I would definitely think base Goku had gotten mondo strong because Roshi says he's come back stronger than on Namek, and he get's a massive zenkai on top of that and he goes from being one shot fodder for true form Cooler to being stronger than true form Cooler. Also it would make no sense for me for Cooler's true form to be so much weaker than Freeza's true form..like 20x weaker is what you guys are suggesting.

No I don't think any of that is the case and the movie pretty much just sbows outright that there are huge powerups..base Goku got really stong because of that zenkai and Cooler's Final form is also dozens of times stronger than his true form which was already rivaling Freeza.

That's how it is IMO...but anyways, the movie 5 stuff i'm done debating. If I can't convince you all, then so be it. I'm much more interested on this movie 6 debate.

Sleazy and Skelter are almost notorious on here for extreme bias towards nerfing people.

Nerfing is the opposite of haxing. You hax, I stay in the area of reasonability. That's not nerfing. Nerfing would be saying that Goku somehow got weaker than he was against Freeza. I say he got marginally stronger, see the difference?

P123...I got to thinking, Freeza said that Nobody had ever taken him past his second form.Do you realize how long it takes freeza to go from 530k- to 140 mill?? Would Goku sit there and just let freeza power up?? Why would Cooler think that saiyan can beat 100% Freeza?? Why would Goku sit there and wait?The most logical conclusion is that Cooler does not know that Freeza went up to his max, knowing how long it takes, and fast Goku got the upper hand on him ( Cooler ) It makes more sense than to have these Guys running around with Cell arc power levels...Cooler never said you are stronger than my Brother..He said you did well enough to deafeat my brother...He could be thinking that base Goku in Movie being around 5 MILL..Showed up, caught freeza on his first suppression and Goku killed him...Goku did the same thing to Cooler...Cooler had to transform as soon as Goku got serious...Cooler can do it fast, and seeing that freeza hangs around most of the time with a pl of 530k- i can see why would cooler say that...

Victorious, maybe if you didn't give these guys such ridiculous, uncalled high numbers, maybe sleazy and I would not have to disagree...Come on man..3000x Goku namek?? I bet you are laughing at home//// You just *bleep*ing with us...right?

Dammit I just realized I'm with Skelter and Sleazy on the Piccolo and the Android 19 and 20 thing.

But anyways, yeah I still agree them on that for sure. Sleazy came up with some good arguments the other day anyways IIRC. So props for that Sleazy, you're my comrade in the trenches with me when it comes to the the Android arc Piccolo vs SSJ Trunks (Mecha) vs Android 19 and 20 debates.

quote

Victorious, maybe if you didn't give these guys such ridiculous, uncalled high numbers, maybe sleazy and I would not have to disagree...Come on man..3000x Goku namek?? I bet you are laughing at home//// You just *bleep*ing with us...right?

Ridiculous, yes...but not uncalled for. Even my movie 6 interpretations are pretty logical IMO. I didn't just pull this stuff from my ass you know. Read the whole first post here.

For instance I have MSSJ Goku in movie 8 = MSSJ Goku in the Cell games.

Yet I have SSJ Goku in movie 5 50x SSJ Goku on Namek.

I think characters in each movie belong to their closest canon counterparts..but then sometimes in the movie itself the plot develops and their powerlevels go on a way different path.

My point is I would not just make MSSJ Goku in movie 8 have a powerlevel 50x MSSJ Goku in the Cell games unless there were implications...and since there was nothing, then so be it.

I do believe he has a technique though which is something like 50x his power...that being the TOEI punch aka what I call the "Pseudo Dragon Fist".

Exactly Skelter, that's what I've been saying all along. Cooler does not know how the fight played out, so why would he be betting on the one in a million chance that Freeza went all the way up to full power?