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@Paul, thats why my faith in Naruto has slipped over the years. When I started reading naruto (bout 8-9 yrs ago) I was so happy with the story and I became a die hard fan. I used to crave my naruto chapter and I'd spend hours thinking up theories and considering what would happen in the next chapter.

Over that 8-9yr period, my faith has slipped. Its still there, but it ain't strong anymore. Naruto has become to predictable and the storytelling has become kinda lazy. Its not as EPIC as it used to be. Facts that once held true are no longer relevant in the Narutoverse. I don't know how to filter new info that I get each chapter when it sometimes conflicts with previous chapters. And this talk no jutsu is imo a cheap way of settling fights.

Speaking of which, funny how Shukaku (Shikamaru's dad) warned Naruto that Tobi (then Madara) was not like any other enemy he had ever faced, and he should avoid even trying to talk-no-jutsu him into submission.

Yet as Kakashi confirmed last chapter, for the last who knows how many chapters, Tobi (now Obito) has been going out of his way, through hell and high water, desperately trying to get himself talk-no-jutsu'd to death!

It got so bad that freaking NARUTO had to pretty much say "Enough of your shit! I'm NOT giving you the talk-no-jutsu you seek, goddamnit!" lol.

Anywho, I wonder if it's really just Naruto getting worse or simply just a result of winding down a story. You know, when it starts up, we're all still learning the rules, and having awesome things revealed at our face, so it seems like pretty much anything can happen (in a way--for better or for worse--One Piece still has this quality going for it. Apologies for the reference in this thread; I shant bring it up again). But at some point, you have to narrow the narrative, focus the characters, and define a clear end goal and path towards it, no? Maybe that's what you guys are seeing as declining quality.

I was thinking along that line as well that maybe the story is just concluding, but still, the way its happening does leave me wanting.

As for the Tobi issue, yep, I think he just wants to be TNJ'd. Every fight I say TNJ won't work, and It works everytime :(

Well the new TNJ proof character is Madara. Lets see if he really hold out or falls like the others. I also hope the Juubi aint gonna fall for TNJ either. That blank destroy everything vibe about it is pretty nice.

I won't be surprised if the Juubi is like the Old Mindless Incredible Hulk who would go Grraaahhhh!, Hulk Smash Puny Man, Raaarrggghhh!, Bash, Bang, Smash , Pulverise, then next page he gets bored and goes somewhere quiet for a little nap.

After all, in the era before SO6P, the Juubi didn't kill everybody.

Hmm! Just a thought, how did the Juubi progenitor everybody. Did he use his rinnegan to Izanagi them into being?

I am not perfect andI defy you to prove otherwise Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

As for the Tobi issue, yep, I think he just wants to be TNJ'd. Every fight I say TNJ won't work, and It works everytime :(

Well the new TNJ proof character is Madara. Lets see if he really hold out or falls like the others. I also hope the Juubi aint gonna fall for TNJ either. That blank destroy everything vibe about it is pretty nice.

Tobi simply wants his own Obito, since he still hasn't obtained full control over Sasuke. Hmmmm, now that I mention it, maybe Sasuke form the very beginning was only needed to reaffirm Obito's will ? After all, there is little to no mention about Sasuke having anything to do with his plan at this point in time. Obito mentions that now is the right time to become it's jinchurki, which means that he no longer intends to connect Sasuke to it (GM already cased to exist and is now Jyubi anyway). Does this mean that he left Sasuke as only asset to buy over Kabuto's cooperation ?

Originally Posted by paulbee

I won't be surprised if the Juubi is like the Old Mindless Incredible Hulk who would go Grraaahhhh!, Hulk Smash Puny Man, Raaarrggghhh!, Bash, Bang, Smash , Pulverise, then next page he gets bored and goes somewhere quiet for a little nap.

After all, in the era before SO6P, the Juubi didn't kill everybody.

Hmm! Just a thought, how did the Juubi progenitor everybody. Did he use his rinnegan to Izanagi them into being?

I was thinking that perhaps Jyubi was more like Dragon King of Apocalypse Acnologia (from FT) and simply considers humans as insects and well normally humans themselves don't talk with ants and often destroy their colonies, for reasons not understandable to ants, probably.

Acnologia has/had intent and ill-will. If Naruto was in FT, he would sense Acnologia so hard (in Kurama mode), that he'd get a serious Migraine. Yes I get it that Juubi may have a consciousness far beyond humanity, but from my eyes, if he did have consciousness then it was so far beyond that to all intents it had gone out of bounds and now exists elsewhere.

So:- A Day In The Life of JUUBI .

Juubi wakes up at the crack of dawn, as he does he lets out a big yawn, and the air coming out of his mouth be came a hurricane which blew away a village and killed 6000 people which was fine, because during the night he had had some nightmares that 6000 humans were picking at the boogers in his nostril, it was a nightmare because Juubi enjoyed picking his own boogers, it was a huge part of his daily funtime. As he dreamt on, his Rinnegan activated and immediately performed Izanagi, and 6000 humans were born right there. In the end Juubi's hurricane didn't kill anybody, HOW? Well Recall that 6000-6000 = Zero, so as far as Juubi was concerned, nobody died, yet anyways!

That's it for today boys and girls...Tune in again next year for another installment of A Day In The Life of JUUBI

I am not perfect andI defy you to prove otherwise Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

I don't think that the Juubi has enough consciousness/rationale to either hate/destroy or like/protect humans or anything else. It just does stuff, and out of that stuff, other stuff came into being. You attack it, it calls down tornadoes and lightning storms to defend.

This whole thing just seems out of scope for this manga, doesn't it? Naruto is all about becoming Hokage...err...returning Sasuke...umm...ending the cycle of hatred...ehh...saving the ninja world. Yeah, I think that was the latest goal Naruto was given. Anywho, Kishi should have had the past's involvement in the present go as far back as maybe Hashirama and his ninja system, because that was (arguably) the very beginning of the current conflict. THAT'S IT!

Unless Naruto plans to destroy the entire world, involving this universe's version of myths/gods/creators is just wholly unnecessary, too much, and distracting! Sure, give us a general backstory of the So6P and the Juubi if you want, but you don't have to explain every little bitty detail about both of them and how the world was created--leave us some imagination fuel, for pete's sake!

I mean, this has essentially become Naruto v. God. A human/fallible/ordinary/mortal being is attempting to punch God in the face right now! Just take a moment to think about how ridiculous that is. That's like Superman setting out at the beginning of a comic book arc to find his place on a strange new planet and win the acceptance of its people. 600+ chapters later, he is in an all-out brawl with Jesus for some unfathomable reason O_O

I just don't see the Juubi as a god. It is a Bijuu, the Original Bijuu, and It won't be a new thing for Naruto to face up to it, because that is what the Original SO6P did, and he did it all by himself.

Naruto's mission has grown beyond Saving Sasuke and becoming a Hokage, and that growth happened with Jiraiya. Jiyaiya tasked Naruto to solve the problem of Hatred and People understanding one another. That problem is epitomized by the Senju and Uchiha who are blood cousins, but have grown far appart.

The story of Naruto could get very interesting by delving into the underlying structure of the Narutoverse, What are the Bijuu, Where does Chakra come from, Why can the Sharingan do what it does, How come the Rinnegan can revive the dead, How will Naruto solve the problem of hatred, and make whole the Uchiha, What was the SO6P really saying about his successor, and why is Naruto the one for that role, and finally How can Naruto prevent the past from repeating itself?

I have no idea what Kishimoto's scope is for Naruto, but a long time ago I postulated that Naruto will use the Rinnegan to Push the reset button for the Narutoverse. Lets watch and see what happens.

I am not perfect andI defy you to prove otherwise Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

I understand what you're saying. Can't say I necessarily agree, but, you know, America and what not. To me, "solving hatred of people != Punching Progenitor of Narutoverse in the face".

But I definitely agree that delving into some of the underlying stuff that makes the manga tick has been good for the story. (Granted, there can't be any explanation as to where Chakra comes from. That would be like asking where does our blood come from--It's just a part of the characters physiology. Whether they evolved or were created this way, it's just a natural part of who they are. That's why everyone has it.)

It's just......well, I had another counter-point to make, but I kinda refuted it as I was typing it. Okay fine, I'll just watch quietly now *sits in corner* *crosses arms* *pouts vigorously*

For me, the Progenitor role is overdone. To imagine that God was an Idiot. Sheesh!

I want the Manga to end with Naruto Making whole the Uchiha. (My personal desire)
I want there to be some bond or connection to the SO6P possibly through Minato.
After following the Manga for a decade or so, I am willing to allow for a truely Awesome ending (When I use the word awesome, I am thinking "Wrath of God" end of time kind of thing).

I am not sure any other kind of ending will adequately assuage my Narutolistis.

I am not perfect andI defy you to prove otherwise Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !