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Apologies to any other redditors, but this question is mainly directed at Americans. There has been a lot of anti-military protest since Vietnam, and more recently with the American occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan. So in a scenario where the government initiated a draft, would you flee to another country, etc.?

They are literally the worst soldiers ever. No wonder why the Russians occupied their capitol in less than 2 days of the South Ossetian War. Basically this is what they do in combat in Afghanistan (source: my buddy [fought] with them in Afghanistan).

They would pick a fight with the American Marines, everyday, and they would get their asses handed to them, everyday. You could automatically tell that they only cared about their country not getting ivaded by Russia (the only reason why they joined NATO) and not the NATO alliance and didnt care if anyone in the alliance got killed. Every time the Marines and the Georgians got into a firefight against Taliban, the Marines would engage, then look at their flank for Georgian support, but then realized that the Georgians tucked tail and ran away faster than you can say "She sells seashells by the seashore" (I mean this in a literal sense.) Every. Time. They were worthless. The Afghan police force is better than they are. And when I say the Afghan Police force I mean the Afghan Police force the Russians trained in the 80s (this is a joke because most of them were Mujaheddin informants).

Anyways, I hope this helps you and sheds a light on one of our many faithful NATO allies

"Haha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia," but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line!""

Or I guess if the American government stopped serving the people, built palaces for themselves and treated this country like their personal piggy bank, and financed attacks on civilian non combatants in other countries.

For the record Iraq and Afghanistan did not have stable or legitimate governments. And by "legitimate" I mean their own people didn't recognize the government.

If a group of Americans killed 3000 Chinese, the US government would go ape shit, find them and present them to the Chinese government on a silver platter. We would also acquire their associates and with Chinese representatives present question those suspects.

If they invade us anyway(for our oil obviously), then I guess China is fucked.

And thank God that it most very likely will never happen. People say Nixon was an asshole, but his essential linking of the Chinese and US economies is probably a huge reason as to why the world has yet to be annihilated in nuclear holocaust.

Regardless of his many failures, I actually owe my existence to that man. After his trip to China, as a showing of good faith, China let plane of people come over to the U.S. with the knowledge that those people would never go back to China. My at the time 13 year old mother was on that plane

Furthermore most of the US debt is held by the US people. If coming collecting on debt is why some think China will come after us, that is highly unlikely. China owns billions, but it's a drop in the bucket comparatively. Not a significant amount to go to war over, considering how much business we throw their way.

Well hypothetically this would start in North Korea. North Korea would move to attack South Korea, and as allies of South Korea, the US would intervene. China, however, supports North Korea, and would then move to intercept us. This situation could also be reversed with South Korea attacking North Korea.

China supports them just barely because they are communist. It's the same reason the US supports Israel because it's a democracy.
edit
Israel is also an extremely tactical location in times of war in the area.

I wonder what would happen if there were a democratic communist state, considering communism has been warped severely since its envisioning. It was originally the same thing as total democracy- the population controls everything as a non-central force. Let's say a country like, I don't know, Egypt suddenly decides that it wants to become communist, but the majority decide to do it in a way that means they all control the country equally. Would it get support from both the US and China, or would both be against it?

Woman here. I think this is fucked up. You can't ask for the advantages of equality without accepting the disadvantages. There are plenty of non combat roles in the military, if the argument is that men can't deal with women on the front line or whatever. If my brother could get drafted and I couldn't, I'd help him desert if he wanted to regardless of my opinion.

Hey I'm all for that, I'm personally a pacifist. But I'm not naive, a lot of people's view of american sentiment is that war is justified and that people who fight in them (on our side anyway) are always heroes. War is going to be a grey area as opposed to black and white (it's always wrong IMO) in america for a really long time. It's sad, it's a reality. So I'm just saying that within that reality, men and women should be equally represented within a hypothetical draft.

What is interesting is that the US Navy actually realized a long time ago that women would make the best submariners because of their size, food/air requirements, etc. I read this in a book a while back, an older book, so i'm sorry I cant cite anything. It was interesting and made sense though.

Yeah the draft, and peoples opinions on it relating to gender is a good example of how deep down even on a cultural/social level we do not view the two genders equally, and many (even women) don't actually fully want that.

I have a friend who calls herself a feminist. She gets really pissed off when I make even the slightest misogynist joke (as in, "Hey friendsname, can I have some of that sandwich?" It's not even a joke!).

I was talking to her about it one day, and she was typical oh we need to be equal and such and such! I then brought up the draft. I asked her if she thought woman should have to take part, because they want equal rights. She just gave me this look and said "no, of course not" and when I asked her why, she just said "uh, because we're women?"

You are one of the few on here with a very honest answer. Fuck it, I'm to scared to go to war, If I was dropped into service I wouldn't have the mental capacity to kill other people that are most likely good people, and dying isn't helping our cause, whatever it may be.

Exactly, people are too quick to say that they would never fight for a country such as the U.S because of its policies. But if your family is in direct danger of an invading force, fight for them if anything instead of refusing to do anything.

I totally agree. I am totally against wars and the military and the government, in its current state. I will not fight for some stupid war because our president decided he doesn't like someone. But if they invade America, I'll pick up a gun and kill those sons of bitches.

Religion is a cultural tool used to motivate and unite a society. God's are made -- they're taylored to a people's needs. Fundamentalist Islam is radically anti-Western and obsessed with puritanism because it's desperately trying to hold on to a culture that was destroyed by Western Imperialism. Fundamentalist religion and obsession with death and the afterlife accompanies cultural death. Much of the Middle East was destroyed environmentally and economically, and the entire social structure was upended.

Radical Islam exists for the same reason that the Ghost Dance movement happened among the Plains tribes of America.

Volunteer 3 "Just start driving and don't stop till we run out of gas or bullets."

As a Mexican who constantly got mistaken for a terrorist there is nothing more dangerous in this country than people who feel the need to do something, have no idea what they're doing, but are determined to do it anyway.

As a veteran I have to agree with you. In hindsight I would never enlist for a war fought over false pretenses. I served in Iraq however I enlisted to go to afghanistan and that never happened.

If my country was attacked or invaded I'd be the first motherfucker to swear the oath of allegiance and grab a rifle. If that wasn't the case I'd quietly protest-After all war is a complicated issue that raises many complex emotions.

Can we run with this a bit? I'd be curious how country X would every actually attack the United States. There doesn't seem to be any weakness really, and a 2-front assault (Atlantic/Pacific) would be near impossible. For the sake of this, let's just assume Canada would not interfere in the war, but would not allow Country X to go through their territory.

Hachi-Machi was alluding to the fact that civilian Americans are known for being rather more well-armed than probably any other first-world citizenry. Many people have a few guns, and a few people have many guns. Every city, every neighborhood, and every street would resist invasion.

Also our unique continent-spanning position and distance from most potential threats makes a nightmare of the logistics of any direct invasion.

And this conversation hasn't even touched on the US's current military and technological power.

It would probably take nation-wide EMP strikes to knock out communication and transportation, along with strategic nuclear strikes on US military bases and government centers. Even then it would still take long enough to get an invasion force across the Atlantic or Pacific that the US Navy and Air Force would probably annihilate the invaders at sea. The only way it could really work is if they secretly set up an invasion force somewhere in Central America or the Caribbean, and if that happened our satellites and spy network would know it was coming long before they were prepared, allowing the US to make a preemptive strike. TL,DR, the mainland US cannot be successfully invaded.

for Sun Tzu, doing this would possibly unite your neighbors and cause resistance in the survivors you would inevitably miss. Current technology allows us to get everybody, leaving nobody behind to resent us.

Former allies can easily become enemies if you act in a manner that they are unable to stomach. Unless a nation wants to make the entire rest of the world their enemy, maybe it isn't such a great idea to "get everybody".

You have to look at political realities as well as military realities when thinking of warfare.

I was refencing the part where Sun Tzu talks about using the enemies cities for your own purposes. Like using their own factories for your purposes and whatnot. Super paraphrasing right now but that's the gist of it.

I already did 4 1/2 years in the US Navy, if shit hit the fan, I would throw my uniform back on and head back out to sea if I was needed, especially if it mean't someone else could stay home with their family.

Right now, there are people fighting to stay in the military due to draw downs. It seems like the discussion of a draft comes up most often amongst people who have no clue what it's like to be in the 90% of the military who perform support functions. Not everyone who joins up carries an m4 all day.

They did, it was ruled constitutional because the DoD labels women as being unfit for combat duty and they have a free hand in determining the selection criteria.

It will come up again when there is a real draft and it will be attacked from the other side, in that the selection criteria is based on gender discrimination. iirc this was a reason why stop-loss and the backdoor draft of the national guard occurred in Iraq and Afghanistan, because there was a very real threat of this being an issue should a real draft be reinstated.

While this is true, I doubt that a large-scale war which calls for a draft would mean leaving our coasts largely undefended; rather, I expect the Coast Guard would act as specialized defense and local support (though, for securing foreign coasts I suppose they'd be useful).

You do realize by law, that the Department of Homeland Security is forced to put the Coast Guard under the authority of the Secretary of the Navy during war, essentially making it a branch not unlike the Marines in a command point of view right?

The Navy can shuffle you around to any boat or installation they deem fit in that case.

I'd sooner pack up and move to a neutral country. I don't have the guts for murder, and I'm not helping anyone by dying.

edit : If I have a trade that is useful to the military (e.g. plane technician or something) and we are not the aggressors (being "provoked" by one act of terror does not a war make) then I would assist my country. I cannot logically trust my country right now to do what's best for me and my fellow citizens.

Technically me because I'm epileptic. I lied though and joined the army when I was 18. Best decision I ever made. I should probably add that you can get in a lot of trouble for lying about any serious medical issues to the military. Luckily I didn't have any problems.

I believe that in any military conflict, the people actually dying are the same on both sides. Most Germans during WWII were good people. Sure, Hitler and a couple others weren't very nice, but the average soldier was not that different from you and me.

People in Iraq and Afghanistan (with few exceptions) have the same wants and desires as me; they just want to live their lives in peace, get an education, raise a family, etc.

Realizing this, I think that killing another person is wrong, even if someone in a position of authority says it is okay to do so. (See Milgram experiment.) Even if the president of the USA says it is my patriotic duty to do so.

The only possible exception is killing as a defensive act, and I do not think that a truly defensive war would require a draft.

Ironic example there, the Soviet occupation of Poland actually targeted the Polish wealthy and elites, the intelligentsia, in order to make the country more amenable to Soviet domination and make the implementation of communism easier.

So basically if you were in the German occupied half of Poland, you would be fine if you were rich, but not Jewish. But if you were in the Soviet half, being Jewish was fine, but being rich was not. If you were rich and Jewish on either side I guess you were just screwed.

We've done that with a few of our presidents. That is one of the reasons many citizens prefer a candidate with military service. They theoretically have proven their willingness to sacrifice self for country.

My favorite comment so far, well said. Even though I wouldn't dodge a draft, I would want to if the situation wasn't just in my mind. Too many people see everything as us vs. them. I see us all as just human and would hate to line someone up in a sight for "security" of my country. I would still do it though :( That almost makes me sad but it's the truth.

Not to mention the fact that we can't keep furthering the cycle of violence. Look where it got us to. Give peace a chance and all that stuff, you know?

I would dodge the draft. Fuck being a slave/pawn for some stupid war game to further some guys interests. Unless I was being invaded and there was no hope of anything but a fight, and in that case I would volunteer, I would totally dodge a draft.

I think peace is all noble and that, but I'm turning 18 soon, and if I get drafted to any war, I'm getting the fuck out. I'm not doing it because war is wrong or whatever, but I'm doing it to save my fucking life. I'm kind of the anti-Achilles: die a long life with no glory.

The first honest answer on here. It's not about principle. It's about I don't want to fucking die. Vietnam sucked. Sucked. There's leaches and disease and shit in the jungle. Iraq sucked too. It's the fucking desert. And you're going there to die essentially. People are coming back with PTSD and beating their wives and shit. The bottom line is, I don't want that. So if I were to dodge, that would be why. It really doesn't have shit to do with principle.

Exactly. I've got enough shit going on at home and a little boy to take care of plus a girl who loves me. I'll be damned if the fucking government is gonna send me to slaughter over petty differences with another country for whatever reason. Its not my fight to fight.

It's like the famous quote by Ali, "No Vietnamese ever called me nigger". The common people of two countries are not the ones who have problems with each other and will not be the ones who derive any benefits from winning a conflict. I'm not going to kill innocent people who live overseas unless they are storming the beaches of the USA. Look back at antiquity and see armies dieing on the whims of Kings and think it's so primitive and then realize it's the same thing today. Helen of Troy vs a trans-continental oil pipeline.

raises hand An elder family member shipped his son off to Paris for college during Vietnam when he got a low number, and I would also leave. I am not cut of for that kind of thing. It would destroy me. I know my limitations and they wouldn't want me anyways.

My father was drafted into Vietnam so my opinion is clearly tainted. I would love to think I would become the next Rambo but in actuality I would be a number. A disposable and replaceable number. I doubt that I would support the cause worthy of risking my life for. If I was single without kids it might be a little different but I wouldn't want to put my wife or kids in that situation. Fighting for a government run by corporations trying to boost their bottom line is hardly worth risking my life for. Back in WWII they fought for a noble cause. Vietnam is more questionable. Iraq and Afghanistan are suspect to say the least.

Having said that I have nothing but the utmost respect for those that do serve. I make it a point to thank every soldier I see and have taught my young boys to do the same. No soldiers deserve to be treated like my father was then he came home.

Yeah, history is written by the victors and they put what they want. The Iraq war is clearly all about money. Oil, defense contracts, guns, ammo. There are so many things that make the wars profitable and when your kids kids read about it, there will be some noble cause they made up in there so that they think their government is awesome and never would do anything wrong...

I'd like to point out to everyone who said 'they'd go if they agreed with the war' this defeats the entire purpose of the draft. If you are in favor of the idea of a draft it follows that you'd support it no matter what quagmire the US got itself into.

In my case, I disagree with the fundamental idea of a draft and as such, I'd violate it out of principle. There are other ways to help and support your country than killing people.

(This is not to say that I don't respect our fighting men and women. Rather, it is simply not my calling, and if my government didn't respect that then it wouldn't be my government for very long.)

Well, that's your opinion. You would dodge because you think the draft is wrong. However, many people saying they'd go are saying they wouldn't resist the draft. I wouldn't sign up, but if there was a reasonable cause for war I would probably go with a draft.

I dodged the draft in a foreign country I was native at (now a us resident) with some consequences. Would maybe do it again today Ina smoother smarter way compared to what I did. If another nation would invade the US I would volunteer to defend it though.

I wouldn't dodge and here's why. My mom told me that back for the Vietnam war her cousin got drafted. My family wanted him to dodge the draft and go hide in Canada. My cousin told my family he was going no matter what, because if he didn't go some other guy would have to go in his place. Those words have stayed with me and for that reason I will never dodge.

Y'know what, I wouldn't.
I've been reading a lot of responses in this thread either tiptoeing around the issue or giving the "if I don't agree with it" answer. These are all copouts.
I'm an American citizen, I vote in elections, I vote on legislature, and I am entirely opposed to private security firms taking over our military. If my country decides to go to war I can't do anything about it sitting at home watching TV, neither can I do anything about it standing on a street corner with a sign. If I go in, that means there's one more moral person who has the ethical fortitude to say "no" if orders come down that call for terrible actions. I have the ability and the drive to achieve officer status that means I can eventually be the one issuing the orders.
If we are skipping the draft because of worry over our own lives then we are cowards, not because we choose not to fight but because we choose not to be heard. I don't want to join the army to kill people, I want to join it so that I can change it for the better. And if the time comes that men are forced into a position where they need to choose between the government's bullets and the enemy's I want to be in a position where I can save lives instead of watching them lost on my tv.

I would always dodge a draft. Don't get me wrong, I might volunteer for military service if I felt the cause worthy, but being drafted, that is being forced into a position where you must risk your life, or kill others, regardless of your will to do so is slavery. Last time I checked, the us wasn't so big on slavery. I would have to fight a draft on moral grounds even if I believed in the war.

As much as I hate the idea of the draft, I wouldn't. I love my country, and dodging the draft for someone like me who is not well-connected would mean being a fugitive and probably leaving the States. I wouldn't want to leave in those circumstances.

Don't take this as, "Well, I would serve my country", though. Because serving in the military isn't serving your country, it's serving your government, and the interests of the country, the nation or its people are often at odd from the interests of the government.

I think if a draft were to be established, I'd think pretty hard about renouncing my US citizenship. It might mean I could never enter the country again, and it's been difficult to get, but I can't support a draft.