Should illegal aliens have driver's licenses, amnesty, welfare, and the right to move their families to the U.S.? Illegal aliens are, as is often pointed out, "good, hard-working people who just want the American dream." But is that the end of the argument? The trouble with that level of analysis is that there are billions of "good, hard-working people" and their dependents in the world who would love to come here, and obviously we can't take them all. We are also a nation of laws, with our own unemployed and underemployed, and our nation needs to come to some enforceable consensus on what our policy should be on people entering the country illegally.

Polls show that more than 70 percent of Americans object to illegal immigration, and we run a serious risk of a backlash against all immigrants if we don't reach some consensus on this issue. Polls also show that there is no issue in America where there is a bigger gap between public opinion and opinions of the media and other "elites."

Advertisement

Reasoned dialogue is rare and issues of immense importance to America's future are not being discussed or even debated.

Public policy requires us to be wise enough to appreciate cumulative effects. We already have approximately 10 percent of all Mexico living in the U.S. either legally or illegally. We owe it to the future to have a candid debate on the demographic impact of a mass migration of this magnitude. Consider:

1. We are a nation built on law. It almost sounds old-fashioned in contemporary America to ask that people obey the law. But when we start deciding which laws to obey and which to ignore, we start down a dangerous path. There are millions of potential immigrants patiently waiting in their home countries to immigrate here, playing by our rules. Illegal immigrants "jump the line."

2. As every house needs a door, every country needs a border. By turning a blind eye toward illegal immigration, we are encouraging countless numbers of these people to attempt to sneak into America. I spent a night with the Border Patrol in California, and was amazed to find people from India, Bangladesh, Iran, Egypt, Africa and China among the people detained.

3. Illegal immigration hurts America's poor. Illegal immigrants compete for the jobs our own poor need to start to move up the economic ladder. A study by The Center for Immigration Studies finds: "Mexican immigration is overwhelmingly unskilled, and it is hard to find an economic argument for unskilled immigration, because it tends to reduce wages for (U.S.) workers." The study goes on: "Because the American economy offers very limited opportunities for workers with little education, continued unskilled immigration can't help but to significantly increase the size of the poor and uninsured populations, as well as the number of people on welfare."

4. We are told that illegal immigration is "cheap labor," but it is not "cheap labor," it is subsidized labor. The National Academy of Sciences has found that there is a significant fiscal drain on U.S. taxpayers for each adult immigrant without a high school education. Illegal immigration is something that benefits a few employers, but the rest of us subsidize that labor through the school system, the health-care system, the courts and in other ways that this form of labor imposes. With school spending of more than $7,000 per student per year, even a small family costs far more than a low-wage family pays in taxes.

5. America is increasingly becoming, day by day, a bilingual country, yet there is not a bilingual country in the world that lives in peace with itself. No nation should blindly allow itself to become a bilingual-bicultural country. If it does, it invites generations of conflict, tension and antagonism. America has historically demanded that its immigrants be self-supporting and English-speaking to join our polity. We vary from that rule that made us "one nation, indivisible" at great risk to America's future. Today, when over 40 percent of today's massive wave of immigrants is from Spanish-speaking nations, people can move to America and keep their language, their culture and their old loyalties. If the melting pot doesn't melt, immigrants become "foreigners" living in America rather than assimilated Americans.

6. Our social fabric risks becoming undone. It is important to America's future that we look at how Mexican immigrants are doing. Too many of our Hispanic immigrants live in ethnic ghettos. Too many are unskilled laborers, too many are uneducated, too many live in poverty, too many are exploited, too many haven't finished ninth grade, too many drop out of school. The Center for Immigration Studies issued a report last year, which found: "Almost two-thirds of adult Mexican immigrants have not completed high school, compared to fewer than one in 10 natives not completing high school. Mexican immigrants now account for 22 percent of all high school dropouts in the labor force."

But what is most disturbing is that second and third generations don't do much better. Again, the study from The Center for Immigration Studies: "The lower educational attainment of Mexican immigrants appears to persist across the generations." A recent report from the center shows that two-thirds of Mexican immigrant workers lack even a high school education; as a consequence, two-thirds of Mexican immigrant families live in or near poverty. The question has to be asked: By tolerating illegal immigration are we laying the foundations for a new Hispanic underclass? A Hispanic Quebec?

Former Reform Party presidential candidate and former Colorado Gov. Richard D. Lamm is co-director of the Center for Public Policy and Contemporary Issues at the University of Denver.

Should illegal aliens have driver's licenses, amnesty, welfare, and the right to move their families to the U.S.? Illegal aliens are, as is often pointed out, "good, hard-working people who just want the American dream." But is that the end of the argument? The trouble with that level of analysis is that there are billions of "good, hard-working people" and their dependents in the world who would love to come here, and obviously we can't take them all. We are also a nation of laws, with our own unemployed and underemployed, and our nation needs to come to some enforceable consensus on what our policy should be on people entering the country illegally.

Polls show that more than 70 percent of Americans object to illegal immigration, and we run a serious risk of a backlash against all immigrants if we don't reach some consensus on this issue. Polls also show that there is no issue in America where there is a bigger gap between public opinion and opinions of the media and other "elites."

Advertisement

Reasoned dialogue is rare and issues of immense importance to America's future are not being discussed or even debated.

Public policy requires us to be wise enough to appreciate cumulative effects. We already have approximately 10 percent of all Mexico living in the U.S. either legally or illegally. We owe it to the future to have a candid debate on the demographic impact of a mass migration of this magnitude. Consider:

1. We are a nation built on law. It almost sounds old-fashioned in contemporary America to ask that people obey the law. But when we start deciding which laws to obey and which to ignore, we start down a dangerous path. There are millions of potential immigrants patiently waiting in their home countries to immigrate here, playing by our rules. Illegal immigrants "jump the line."

2. As every house needs a door, every country needs a border. By turning a blind eye toward illegal immigration, we are encouraging countless numbers of these people to attempt to sneak into America. I spent a night with the Border Patrol in California, and was amazed to find people from India, Bangladesh, Iran, Egypt, Africa and China among the people detained.

3. Illegal immigration hurts America's poor. Illegal immigrants compete for the jobs our own poor need to start to move up the economic ladder. A study by The Center for Immigration Studies finds: "Mexican immigration is overwhelmingly unskilled, and it is hard to find an economic argument for unskilled immigration, because it tends to reduce wages for (U.S.) workers." The study goes on: "Because the American economy offers very limited opportunities for workers with little education, continued unskilled immigration can't help but to significantly increase the size of the poor and uninsured populations, as well as the number of people on welfare."

4. We are told that illegal immigration is "cheap labor," but it is not "cheap labor," it is subsidized labor. The National Academy of Sciences has found that there is a significant fiscal drain on U.S. taxpayers for each adult immigrant without a high school education. Illegal immigration is something that benefits a few employers, but the rest of us subsidize that labor through the school system, the health-care system, the courts and in other ways that this form of labor imposes. With school spending of more than $7,000 per student per year, even a small family costs far more than a low-wage family pays in taxes.

5. America is increasingly becoming, day by day, a bilingual country, yet there is not a bilingual country in the world that lives in peace with itself. No nation should blindly allow itself to become a bilingual-bicultural country. If it does, it invites generations of conflict, tension and antagonism. America has historically demanded that its immigrants be self-supporting and English-speaking to join our polity. We vary from that rule that made us "one nation, indivisible" at great risk to America's future. Today, when over 40 percent of today's massive wave of immigrants is from Spanish-speaking nations, people can move to America and keep their language, their culture and their old loyalties. If the melting pot doesn't melt, immigrants become "foreigners" living in America rather than assimilated Americans.

6. Our social fabric risks becoming undone. It is important to America's future that we look at how Mexican immigrants are doing. Too many of our Hispanic immigrants live in ethnic ghettos. Too many are unskilled laborers, too many are uneducated, too many live in poverty, too many are exploited, too many haven't finished ninth grade, too many drop out of school. The Center for Immigration Studies issued a report last year, which found: "Almost two-thirds of adult Mexican immigrants have not completed high school, compared to fewer than one in 10 natives not completing high school. Mexican immigrants now account for 22 percent of all high school dropouts in the labor force."

But what is most disturbing is that second and third generations don't do much better. Again, the study from The Center for Immigration Studies: "The lower educational attainment of Mexican immigrants appears to persist across the generations." A recent report from the center shows that two-thirds of Mexican immigrant workers lack even a high school education; as a consequence, two-thirds of Mexican immigrant families live in or near poverty. The question has to be asked: By tolerating illegal immigration are we laying the foundations for a new Hispanic underclass? A Hispanic Quebec?

Former Reform Party presidential candidate and former Colorado Gov. Richard D. Lamm is co-director of the Center for Public Policy and Contemporary Issues at the University of Denver.

You make me laugh at your foolishness...
you comparing Mexicans to the whole illegal population
"By tolerating illegal immigration are we laying the foundations for a new Hispanic underclass? A Hispanic Quebec?"

All illegal immigrants are not Hispanics!!!!

Have you noticed in your worthless, unbearable written debate...that every point you put up is aiming towards Mexicans. and then referring that as for the rest of the illegal immigrants...what about the rest of the immigrants coming from around the world.?

Where are the resources? where did you get all this information from...paste your links here. There should be no debate without an evidence....this debate is meaningless.
=========================================

". As every house needs a door, every country needs a border. By turning a blind eye toward illegal immigration, we are encouraging countless numbers of these people to attempt to sneak into America. I spent a night with the Border Patrol in California, and was amazed to find people from India, Bangladesh, Iran, Egypt, Africa and China among the people detained.
"

ANS: Whose house are you talking about? The one your ancestors sneaked in aswell? and then you lived of their fruit? or was it the house you bought through your neighbor?
remember: the type of seed you plant is the type of fruit you get.
===========================================
"Illegal immigration hurts America's poor. Illegal immigrants compete for the jobs our own poor need to start to move up the economic ladder"
Difference between American poor and illegal immigrants poor is that
Majority of American poor = physically fit, on drugs, alcohol, able to speak english, and still poor, still live on welfare, they dont understand the hardship faced in other contries, therefore not very appreciative for what they are given.
Immigrant poor = have worked there ways up, have seen the the real rough life, without any welfare, without any dollars showering on their face, (mostly) without being on drugs,alcohols,
having children, when they come here most of them might not help the economy, but I guarantee you they are here for their children, trying to get out of poverty from back home, educate in American system to live a better life.
(apologize about my english not very good! but I hope you are educated enough to figure out my english! )
============================================
Illegal immigration doesn't hurt America's poor,
America's poor hurt themselves, they have all these opportunities and benefits, they dont take advantage of.except welfare. and child support, America's poor can learn a lot by learning the life's of poor from other countries like Mexico. THEY JUST DONT KNOW!
----
If you worry about American poors, why dont you open up charity funds, why not help them out with money. Where is your evidence that you have helped a single poor american out?
-- "Truth is that you don't give a ****?" cuz you are preventing poor Mexicans coming in here who have children, are poor, can't speak english, are unskilled->looking for a light in a dark tunnel. To live a "better" life here...
you are just too **** selfish! Im not a Mexican, truth is I have been poor, my father came from the streets in Pakistan through poverty and desperate situation, he was able to educate and send all of his children to different colleges here and afford all by himself. You know how much it cost for education right in college nowadays buddy?
====
oooo you make me mad!! udhar ata to me tumko upni chapli ke sath peetta ghuss ghuss ke..
ullu ke pathe!
IN GOD WE TRUST
GOD BLESS TACO BELL!

Illegal immigration hurts America's poor. Illegal immigrants compete for the jobs our own poor need to start to move up the economic ladder"
Difference between American poor and illegal immigrants poor is that
Majority of American poor = physically fit, on drugs, alcohol, able to speak english, and still poor, still live on welfare, they dont understand the hardship faced in other contries, therefore not very appreciative for what they are given.

WHAT A RACIEST YOU ARE , Majority of American poor = physically fit, on drugs, alcohol, where is your -proof of this, AND WHO ARE YOU TO MAKE THIS JUDGEMENT AND THEN USE IT AGASINT THEM.,THIS IS WHY WE DO NOT NEED FOLKS LIKE YOU HERE, YOU CARE NOT FOR THIS COUNTRY OF ITS PEOPLE, STUFF THIS UP YOU'RE A@#. 14% OF .U.S.. NATIVES USE WELFARE COMPARED TO 35% OF Hispanics MORON.

And the Immigrant Welfare Winner Is...
By Ed Rubenstein
In my last column, I noted that the 1996 welfare reform had failed to end the scandal of immigrant welfare dependency"”which means American taxpayers are still being compelled to finance their own dispossession.
Now the news you're all waiting for: who won the latest Immigrant Welfare Sweepstakes?
And the winner is...surprisingly hard to find. For some mysterious reason, the government chooses not to make this interesting information easily available. And no academic seems to have updated Harvard University economist George Borjas' calculations from 1990 Census data, republished as an appendix to Peter Brimelow's Alien Nation.
Nevertheless, on the basis of what we have (Ta-Ra!):
ļæ¼ First place: Immigrants from the Dominican Republic! Nearly three in five (58.7%) Dominican immigrant households received at least one means-tested program in 2002.

ļæ¼ Runner-up: Immigrants from Mexico! Over one in three (35.7%) Mexican immigrant households are on welfare. About a quarter (24.9%) of illegal Mexican immigrants receive benefits on behalf of their U.S.-born children.

ļæ¼ Dead last: less than one in thirteen (7.3%) immigrant households from Canada receive benefits.

This new list, prepared by the enterprising Steven Camarota of the Center for Immigration Studies, is not comprehensive. (See our first table.) It omits, for example, 1990's winner and runner-up, Cambodia and Laos. In that year, their welfare participation rate was nearly twice that of Dominican immigrants"”reflecting the presence of profoundly troubled subgroups, like the Hmong.
But this 2002 list does include the largest immigrant blocs. For example, Mexican immigrants and their U.S.-born children now comprise about 4.2% of total U.S. population"”and 10.2% of all persons in poverty.
One reason for high welfare usage: some national groups include many refugees – for example, Russian and Vietnamese immigrants (nearly a third on welfare). Refugees are immediately entitled to welfare, and it's addictive. Even after 20 years, refugees are still more likely to be on welfare than either native-born Americans or other immigrant.
Overall, one of George Borjas' key conclusions from 1990 remains valid: national origin matters. In general, immigrants from Europe participate in means-tested programs at about one-third the rate of immigrants from Mexico and the Caribbean. (See our second table.)
There are some anomalies: Indian immigrants currently seem quite successful"”but look at Pakistan. And so do African immigrants"”but they include many educated whites from Rhodesia and South Africa.
Filipino immigrants do relatively badly (almost one in seven on welfare) although their poverty (3.8 percent) is only a third that of the U.S. native-born (11.1%). Perhaps the Filipinos' long exposure to American culture enables them to game the system.
Some provisos: Our 2002 table uses a broader definition of welfare than our 2000 table"”it includes housing benefits. (Plus there's been a recession.) And remember that the "U.S. native-born"¯ category includes the troubled black and Hispanic minorities. American white welfare participation is at least a couple of percentage points lower.
Welfare Participation by Household Head Country of Origin, 2002
(Percent Receiving Benefits)
Country Major Means-
Tested Programs Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC)
Dominican Republic 58.7% 38.4%
Mexico 35.7 49.3
Cuba 35.3 18.1
Haiti 32.6 43.9
Russia 31.1 5.3
Vietnam 30.9 29.3
El Salvador 30.1 46.3
Honduras 29.9 43.0
Colombia 28.4 28.3
Guatemala 28.2 32.4
Ecuador 27.8 35.6
Pakistan 25.8 33.0
Ukraine 25.0 18.3
All Immigrants 24.5 28.8
Iran 23.1 15.4
Korea 20.9 19.7
Jamaica 19.3 31.6
Philippines 15.5 16.8
U.S. Natives 16.3 16.6
China/Taiwan/HK 13.8 16.2
Italy 13.3 11.9
Poland 11.1 15.0
India 10.2 17.4
United Kingdom 9.2 11.2
Japan 8.0 8.4
Germany 7.3 9.1
Canada 7.1 7.9

Immigrant poor = have worked there ways up, have seen the the real rough life, without any welfare, without any dollars showering on their face, (mostly) without being on drugs,alcohols,
having children, when they come here most of them might not help the economy, but I guarantee you they are here for their children, trying to get out of poverty from back home, educate in American system to live a better life.
(apologize about my english not very good! but I hope you are educated enough to figure out my english! )

MY CHILD SITS IN OVERCROWED CLASSROOMS IN CALIF, THEY NEEDED TO BULID A SCHOOL A DAY TO KEEP UP (state is broke) WITH 1.5 MILLION ILLEGAL ALIENS FLOODING THE STATE, THEY SIT NEXT TO CHILDERN WHO HAVE BY-PASSED OUR HEALTH CHECK SO THEY ARE EXPOSSED TO LIFE threatening diseases ,there education is degraded because we cannot afford to pay 16 billion per year to just teach them English, thus it is the worst school system in the nation ,at one time it was the best, my child pays for this by folks who do not belong here, who will pay the rest of there life's for this.
Are you the parent of a college-aged student who you would like to send to your alma mater, but can't as you have moved away from home, placing out-of-state tuition between you and your old school? Not to worry. Just send your offspring in search of Mexican citizenship. Depending on the location of your alma mater, once your son or daughter recrosses the border as an alien, the state's taxpayers will cover the out-of-state tuition charge.
Tuition Breaks For Illegals – Insults for 9/11 Families
By Joe Guzzardi
The Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund is America's Great White Shark.
Like the Great White, the dead-eyed MALDEF moves relentlessly forward. Whatever gets in its way "”9/11, the war on terrorism, the budget crisis"”is swallowed up whole. MALDEF and its countless allies are always focused on their mission: Reconquista.
MALDEF is currently engaged in an all-out effort to spread the news about in-state college tuition fees for illegal aliens. In our beleaguered California, in-state fees are law.
California's legislation, A.B. 540, allows illegal alien students to pay the lower, resident tuition rates at community colleges and schools in the California State University and the University of California systems.
The savings to illegals are substantial. At community colleges, a non-resident student pays an average of $141 per unit, each semester. But a resident pays only $11 per unit.
Closing California's $35 billion budget deficit is pretty tough with laws like A.B. 540.
Via television and radio ads and with an 800-telephone number posted on its website, MALDEF hopes to reach as many as 12,000 prospective college students who may qualify for the legal discount established in 2002. California Assemblyman and Latino Caucus Chairman Mario Firebaugh, a MALDEF champion, was responsible for introducing A.B. 540.
The commercials will air, according to MALDEF, in counties with large alien populations - in other words, everywhere.
Maria Lucero Ortiz, MALDEF's director of outreach on higher education said,
"We're making sure that no one is left behind getting the educational opportunities they're legally entitled to. We know people know about the law but we want to iron out confusion about the exact requirements."¯
["State program promotes lower tuition for immigrants,"¯ By Jessie Mangaliman, Mercury News, Feb. 24, 2003]
The "exact requirements"¯ are few, that's for sure. To qualify for the lower fee, just attend a California high school for three years. If you don't graduate, passing the G.E.D. or the high school proficiency test will suffice.
And students "without immigration status"¯ must file an affidavit with the university stating "that he or she has applied to legalize his or her status or will do so as soon as he or she is eligible to do so."¯
Is that vague enough for you?
Last year, after MALDEF and the Latino Caucus muscled the constitutionally independent UC Regents into adopting A.B. 540, Lieutenant Governor Cruz Bustamante in a CNN debate with Ward Connerly projected that only "about 200"¯ students would benefit from the reduced fees.
Bustamante needs a math refresher course.
And, as with the Matricula Consular card, California is setting the national trend toward in-state tuition fees for illegal aliens.
Illinois, with a budget deficit of $5 billion, has asked state universities to cut 8% from its 2003 expenditures. At the University of Illinois, for example, that totals $58 million. Yet the legislature voted 112-4 to lower tuition for illegal aliens.
Illinois' Democratic Governor Rod R. Blagojevich, a notorious booster of illegals, must not have visited his own website lately. When I wrote this A WEEK OR SO AGO [VDARE.COM note: this is our fault for sitting on Joe's copy!], the first words posted were:
"We owe it to the people of Illinois to closely monitor every aspect, every expenditure of our government..."¯
And looking at the Governor's life story, one might wonder why Blagojevich doesn't take a page out of his own book when evaluating the merits of in-state tuition for illegal aliens. According to his bio,
"Rod's father was a prisoner of war during World War II, coming to this country penniless and unable to speak English. His father later got a job at a Chicago steel plant, worked hard, and together with Rod's mother, saved for 15 years in order to send Rod and his brother to college."¯
Oklahoma is on the tuition bandwagon, too. But its story has a particularly ugly chapter.
The Oklahoma State Regents for Higher Education supported House Bill 1559 and Senate Bill 596 to provide in-state tuition and/or state financial aide to "qualified immigrants"¯ who graduate from Oklahoma high schools after at least two years of attendance.
Oklahoma Representative Lance Cargill, who opposed the bill, asked Peter Gadiel of the Coalition of 9/11 Families for a Secure America to write a letter urging its defeat. In his letter, Gadiel wrote that the inducements for illegal immigrants are "an ocean in which terrorists hide."¯
Instead of respecting the opinions of the 9/11 families by allowing the letter to speak for itself, the bill's author, Representative Kevin Calvey mocked the Coalition by waving to the gallery filled with illegal aliens and demanding that Cargill to point out which of them are terrorists.
No incident in the post-9/11 era is as shameless and insulting as Calvey's.
When Cargill informed Gadiel what happened when the letter was read, Gadiel sent this message to Calvey (calveyke@lsb.state.ok.us):
"We just wanted to let you know that every one of the signers of that letter lost a son, a daughter, a husband or a wife on 9/11.
We recognize dangers of illegal immigration and its relationship to the terrorist attacks that killed our loved ones, while you apparently either are incapable of recognizing the dangers or do not care.
This is to tell you that we who have lost so much intend to make sure that the constituents of every legislator who voted for this bill are made aware of how their Representative voted; how poorly they represent the 80% of the voters who want real immigration reform now. We will make it our business to defeat as many as possible of those who voted for your bill. And we will start with you, as the author of the bill and most especially as the person who, on the floor of the House, mocked us and in so doing mocked our lost loved ones.

"Truth is that you don't give a ****?" cuz you are preventing poor Mexicans coming in here who have children, are poor, can't speak english, are unskilled->looking for a light in a dark tunnel. To live a "better" life here...
you are just too **** selfish! Im not a Mexican, truth is I have been poor, my father came from the streets in Pakistan through poverty and desperate situation, he was able to educate and send all of his children to different colleges here and afford all by himself. You know how much it cost for education right in college nowadays buddy?
====
YOU HAVE IT BACKWARDS , YOU/THEY DO NOT CARE WHO'S LIFES YOU AFFECT BY ILLEGALY COMING HERE, AS EVERYTHING YOU POSTED IS ABOUT YOU/THEM , THAT IS NOT HOW THIS COUNTRY WORKS ,WE WORK AS A WHOLE COUNTRY NOT BY DIVIDING IT INTO GROUPS, DEMANDING RIGHTS WHERE YOU HAVE NO CLAIM,OUR FOUNDING FATHERS SET THIS COUNTRY UP SO NO ONE GROUP COMES UP ON THE BACKS OF OTHERS, THAT'S ALL YOU FOLKS EXCEPT , IS TO CLIMB OURS BACKS FOR YOUR OWN BENFIT , NOT THE BENFIT OF THIS COUTRY AS A WHOLE.

A recent Field poll shows that jobs, education and taxes rank among the top concerns of California voters. According to recent news reports, Californians are being driven out of the state by the loss of our quality of life: high housing costs, traffic gridlock and diminished opportunities.

Can any governor of California effectively address such concerns if the state continues to absorb 600,000 newcomers annually, mostly due to immigration-related growth?

In recent years, the U.S. has, simultaneously, massively exported high-tech and manufacturing jobs and imported professional and low-skilled workers. Meanwhile, many companies continue to cut their work forces to stay solvent or to maximize profits. Many of those lost jobs reportedly will not come back.

With this country continuing to allow well over a million foreign-born workers to enter the U.S. labor market every year, and with California being the largest immigrant-receiving state, how can we expect unemployed Californians to find work?

California's public schools are bursting at the seams, in large part due to mass immigration. Overcrowding negatively impacts existing natives as well as legal immigrants. In the meantime, tuition at our colleges and universities has increased by 30 to 40 percent in just the last two years.

Exploding population in California also exacerbates housing shortages, congestion and our health care crisis as newcomers drive and require housing and medical services. According to Census data, in the last decade, poverty in California increased by 30 percent, due mostly to immigration.

The state received more than 2 million illegal immigrants during that period, according to estimates. Poor and/or illegal immigrants do not generate enough tax revenue to even offset the costs of educating their children, which averages $6,000 per child, per year, let alone other costly services and infrastructure.

Isn't it obvious that California's fiscal crisis is likely to worsen with continued mass immigration?

The open-border lobby claims that immigration is needed to boost the economy. But California and the U.S. were far more prosperous in the 1960s with far fewer immigrants and citizens than today. The U.S. is now the world's greatest debtor nation and California is in its worst fiscal crisis ever.

Even if all newcomers were economic assets, do we have the jobs, infrastructure, water, energy and farmland to support the billions of people in the rest of the world wishing to live in America?

Americans must realize that our immigration policy does not reflect today's economic realities. For example, in recent years, China's economic growth rates have far exceeded those of the United States, and many large cities in China are becoming more modern counterparts.

Many recent Chinese immigrants have returned to their homeland for better economic opportunities. So why continue to admit tens of thousands of Chinese nationals every year? Why allow large numbers of new elderly legal immigrants from all over the world to go on welfare here while we cut educational programs that are needed to train American children who are the future of this country?

Gen. Tommy Franks, former commander of American forces in the war in Iraq, said in April that "any nation that wants to control its borders can do so." Therefore, the governor of California should urge the federal government to take serious steps to reduce legal and illegal immigration. Our governor should also veto or urge the repeal of all legislation granting benefits to illegal immigrants, which encourages more illegal immigration.

Unless California's leaders have the courage to advocate immigration reduction, no real solution to California's problems is possible.

Yeh Ling-Ling is the executive director of Diversity Alliance for a Sustainable America in Oakland, www.diversityalliance.org

Here we go again. One more rat under the split identity and caught red-handed. Okay, so what do you need say now that you also have many many computers that made you to have different IDs for ILW, or that you are not the same person. Shame, shame shame on you deceiver, misleader- Hishukhan=SKS.

My friend, acelaw, i think it is useless to argue these people over right and wrong, because these people are law breakers themselves and involve in lots of illegal activities like immigration fraud by arranging marriage with USC for GC. These people, who are immigrants, want to justify themselve that it is okay if they have broken the laws of this country being overstaying here and they belive its not a criminal act. We can not expect anything from them more than what we heard from them because they will defend there illegal presence and massive immigration. They are forgetting that America was stronger even when immigration was in its fewest rate in 70s, so if they believe that massive immigration made America strong only Now, then they are flattly wrong. And, they are forgetting also that we did not have those crime rates, economic defict and all other problems that we are facing these days in 70s when immigration rate was lowest. They are also forgetting that our Govt has the right to totally stop the immigration if it is warranted in the interest of America and its people, and then their all kind of justification and argument supporting massive immigration and illegal immigration would go in the gutter. It is only a matter of time when we will get rid of these massive and illegal immigrantion matters because now USC seem to realize the serious consequences of these massive immigration and illegal immigrants that would change this great nation into a disaster turmoil in the future if an action is taken in this respect. The people on this this board, of course will support the massive, illegal immigrations because they are law breakers and they are in a immigration mess by themselves. And, obviously they are only looking their interests only so that can live up our dream - AMERICAN DREAM.

Easy there wally, I don't need to make another identity, what for?? I voice my opinion, what....am I afraid of Wally and acelaw???

"One more rat under the split identity and caught red-handed."
"Hishukhan=SKS."

Come on, you know better.........you can do better than that can't you!!?? I'll tell you what though, the last thing I'm going to do on my weekend is be on this lousy computer!!

Anyway, back to business.......

"i think it is useless to argue these people over right and wrong,"

And it's useless to agrue with people who make the same points everyday, without realizing the reality of our society............kind of frustrating for people like you and acelaw to keep saying "immigrants shouldn't be here." We all know that, but they are here and here to stay. Again, not an opinion but fact.

"because these people are law breakers themselves and involve in lots of illegal activities like immigration fraud by arranging marriage with USC for GC."

You must hate me then Wally, I too am a lawbreaker..............Today, gosh, I hate to admit it, but....today I went 66 in a 65. I don't deserve to live in the U.S.

" We can not expect anything from them more than what we heard from them because they will defend there illegal presence and massive immigration."

Not expect anything other than hard work!!

"They are forgetting that America was stronger even when immigration was in its fewest rate in 70s, so if they believe that massive immigration made America strong only Now, then they are flattly wrong."

Immigration made America strong throughout history. You stated you were native American, what tribe would that be??

" And, they are forgetting also that we did not have those crime rates, economic defict and all other problems that we are facing these days in 70s when immigration rate was lowest."

Is the world different today than the 70's? We have never been in a deficit before?? You tell me when we had a budget surplus under Clinton and a few years ago in CA, do you also blame immigrants, or only when the economy is bad!!??

I love this logic, when the economy is bad, well, it sure must be those darn illegals. But when the economy is good, why don't we blame them as well.

"They are also forgetting that our Govt has the right to totally stop the immigration if it is warranted in the interest of America and its people,"

YAAAWN. That will never happen. Come back to reality wally.................... You are right, they do have that authority. They can also do many other things that they won't...

"and then their all kind of justification and argument supporting massive immigration and illegal immigration would go in the gutter."

Sure. And when that happens the people in hell will get water!!

"It is only a matter of time when we will get rid of these massive and illegal immigrantion matters.."

When?? TELL ME WALLY. When is the US government going to order massive deportations???? HAHAHA. Talk about fantasyland.....

Again, I'm not saying they CAN'T. I'm saying they HAVEN'T and WON'T.

"because now USC seem to realize the serious consequences of these massive immigration and illegal immigrants that would change this great nation into a disaster turmoil in the future if an action is taken in this respect."

USC only now beginning to realize?? Nice try. Immigration has been a hot topic in American for many years. Remember the idiotic Prop. 187?? Don't give me this, "Americans are only NOW realizing.........." Yeah right, that's a crock.

"The people on this this board, of course will support the massive, illegal immigrations because they are law breakers and they are in a immigration mess by themselves."

Who supports massive immigration and illegal immigration?? Not me.

"And, obviously they are only looking their interests only so that can live up our dream - AMERICAN DREAM."

YAAAAAAAWWWWWWN. Cry me a river will you......

So, I'll ask you then.

What do you think is going to happen to illegal immigrants in the next year? (I know you're not psychic, just tell me what you honestly think will happen in the next year)

"MY CHILD SITS IN OVERCROWED CLASSROOMS IN CALIF, THEY NEEDED TO BULID A SCHOOL A DAY TO KEEP UP (state is broke) WITH 1.5 MILLION ILLEGAL ALIENS FLOODING THE STATE, THEY SIT NEXT TO CHILDERN WHO HAVE BY-PASSED OUR HEALTH CHECK SO THEY ARE EXPOSSED TO LIFE threatening diseases ,there education is degraded because we cannot afford to pay 16 billion per year to just teach them English, thus it is the worst school system in the nation ,at one time it was the best, my child pays for this by folks who do not belong here, who will pay the rest of there life's for this.
"

Khan: You spend so much time wasting your mouth here why not take that time and educate your son, become a private tutor for him. Be a good example.. school system doesn't matter, its all about parents, every school system uses the same kind of syllabus ,text book, etc.... it only depends on how you teach that topic to students. Seems like someone is not doing their duty tsk tsk tsk shame shame.... if you need help tutoring I will help trust me, im not an illegal immigrant but am an immigrant without any disease cough cough...
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"YOU HAVE IT BACKWARDS , YOU/THEY DO NOT CARE WHO'S LIFES YOU AFFECT BY ILLEGALY COMING HERE, AS EVERYTHING YOU POSTED IS ABOUT YOU/THEM , THAT IS NOT HOW THIS COUNTRY WORKS ,WE WORK AS A WHOLE COUNTRY NOT BY DIVIDING IT INTO GROUPS, DEMANDING RIGHTS WHERE YOU HAVE NO CLAIM,OUR FOUNDING FATHERS SET THIS COUNTRY UP SO NO ONE GROUP COMES UP ON THE BACKS OF OTHERS, THAT'S ALL YOU FOLKS EXCEPT , IS TO CLIMB OURS BACKS FOR YOUR OWN BENFIT , NOT THE BENFIT OF THIS COUTRY AS A WHOLE"
Khan: FYI: I have signed up as an immigrant for my status is changing to an American
to help US army in any way I could, I would be talking to the recruit pretty soon to be recruited in the Marines . There are many immigrants like me in this Army who benefit people like you and worse by signing up their lives. Thats just out of respect which many of you never take in consideration.
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"WE WORK AS A WHOLE COUNTRY NOT BY DIVIDING IT INTO GROUPS, DEMANDING RIGHTS WHERE YOU HAVE NO CLAIM"
KHAN: that speech you said; didn't Martin Luther King??Malcolm X? wrote that
hmmmm.... someone remind me I forgot when blacks were able to vote.? also women ?
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"Here we go again. One more rat under the split identity and caught red-handed. Okay, so what do you need say now that you also have many many computers that made you to have different IDs for ILW, or that you are not the same person. Shame, shame shame on you deceiver, misleader- Hishukhan=SKS."
Khan: Walter is scared of SKS hehe..he is paranoid! it's OK Walter, you are not the only one ...there is Acelaw,Someone12, aswell...Im my own identity Walter, ill tell you straight up whats on my mind,, I dont give a ****!
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"THEY SIT NEXT TO CHILDERN WHO HAVE BY-PASSED OUR HEALTH CHECK SO THEY ARE EXPOSSED TO LIFE threatening diseases,"
Biggest desease here is AIDS in young adults, STD'S in the whole world and its nowhere else except here in U.S. Nobody is safe nowhere, even you might have a disease right, you dont know about, better check up. Think you might have arthirits in your wrist...better check....
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Someone12- Great speech, but lets talk reality...........
"Whether they come from Mexico or Timbuktu is irrelevant"

Not to acelaw!!

"- they are here without permission, taking jobs,using and abusing our infrastructure and running up millions (if not billions) of $$$ in unpaid (yes, UNPAID) medical bills."

Makes more sense to allow them a chance to buy insurance; employer paid or otherwise......

"If this group of illegals is so hard working, why don't they go back to wherever they came from and work hard to improve their own country..."

Same old nonsense.........

Because there are no jobs in many of the countries they come from!!! Go back, go back to what?? Starvation, poverty, governments that imprison for nothing...........highly unlikely

"...instead of taking from those of us who have developed this nation into the land of opportunity (for those who pursue it in a LEGAL fashion)????"

Weren't those who developed it immigrants!!

"Well?????"

Well what? Great speech, but wait............where is you solution!!??

"Please point out where in our constitution, or immigration laws or anywhere else where it states that everyone and anyone has the RIGHT to come to America to work illegally, avoid taxes, use fake papers, etc.....well, where are these "rights"?"

Very cute. Nobody said they had a right, at least not me. The fact of the matter is we need to do something about those here, and something about our borders..............because those here are here to stay!