RickD wrote:
I can understand leftists complaining endlessly about Trump. But someone who claims to be Christian?

If Christians do not speak out against...
Immoral behavior, repeated lies, corruption, and criminal behavior when the leader in question is a 'Republican', then Christians sacrifice their testimony regarding moral behavior... especially when they repeatedly chastise 'Democrats' for behavior that they turn a blind eye to in 'Republicans'.

There is a word for that type of behavior... hypocrisy.

I understand and have some level of sympathy for the 'lesser of two evils' argument.

However, I do not understand elements of the evangelical community who full heartedly supported an immoral lying criminal. I think the evangelical community damaged their reputation and testimony when they became apologists for immoral criminal behavior in 2016.

As for Ultimate, we've discussed this all in the past his (lack of) contributions and desire to stir. Do us all a favour ult and just go elsewhere. I'm not sure I can find any posts of substance from you, mainly a desire to stir and cause discord.

"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

RickD wrote:
I can understand leftists complaining endlessly about Trump. But someone who claims to be Christian?

If Christians do not speak out against...
Immoral behavior, repeated lies, corruption, and criminal behavior when the leader in question is a 'Republican', then Christians sacrifice their testimony regarding moral behavior... especially when they repeatedly chastise 'Democrats' for behavior that they turn a blind eye to in 'Republicans'.

There is a word for that type of behavior... hypocrisy.

I understand and have some level of sympathy for the 'lesser of two evils' argument.

However, I do not understand elements of the evangelical community who full heartedly supported an immoral lying criminal. I think the evangelical community damaged their reputation and testimony when they became apologists for immoral criminal behavior in 2016.

RickD wrote:
I can understand leftists complaining endlessly about Trump. But someone who claims to be Christian?

If Christians do not speak out against...
Immoral behavior, repeated lies, corruption, and criminal behavior when the leader in question is a 'Republican', then Christians sacrifice their testimony regarding moral behavior... especially when they repeatedly chastise 'Democrats' for behavior that they turn a blind eye to in 'Republicans'.

There is a word for that type of behavior... hypocrisy.

I understand and have some level of sympathy for the 'lesser of two evils' argument.

However, I do not understand elements of the evangelical communipolitician who full heartedly supported an immoral lying criminal. I think the evangelical community damaged their reputation and testimony when they became apologists for immoral criminal behavior in 2016.

Your problem is you actually believe the slander the liberals and MSM use against Republicans.You have totally forgot how the left uses character assassination to win politically and you buy into it again hook,line and sinker after havng seen it done many times.While I don't.If the left accuses Trump of something I know they are lying and the opposite is true,yet you believe them.

You are also caught up in the status- quo Republican vs Democrat political game and want to keep at it eventhough there is not much difference between both parties and both parties policies have been bad for America.

You overlooked that America is fed up with both political parties games and realized we needed a change and Trump was the only one who was not a politician that we could trust to lead America in a better direction than both parties have been doing and can. America is tired of being ignored by Washington and has been trying to get their attention since the tea party days.Well Trump was our only answer after how the tea partiers were stabbed in the back.

It is not hypocrisy to doubt anything the liberals accuse Trump of because they have absolutely no credibility whatsoever and how you actually decided to believe them is beyond me. You seem to like the status-quo weak Republian vs Democrat lesser than two evil political system we were trapped in as Americans. We needed a way out and Trump was the only answer in this election.

You should not trust the lies,slander and character assassination of the left like you have because it has caused you to be totally blind to the political revolution taking place right now.Also even if you want to judge Trump's faith in the bible and Christ which is a very dangerous road to go down,just as I predicted before the election if Trump won that he would be friendly to Christians and he has been and yet you totally seem to disregard how much more Trump has done for Christians than any other President both Republican and Democrat and yet you are totally overlooking it and taking it for granted.

I mean Trump has done more for the pro-life movement than any Republican ever has and they ran as Christians who were pro-life,and they did nothing. Trump is actually going after planned parenthood unlike any Republican pro-lifer ever did. Yet how can you just overlook it when pro-life has been so important to conservative Christians? It is like Christians like you were not really serious about being Pro-life now that something is actually being done about abortion.

Did you forget that Trump ran as a pro-lifer? Did you forget in the debate with Hillary how he called her evil for defending partial birth abortion? Well Trump is actually delivering on his promises unlike any so-called Christian pro-lifer Republicans ever did.Let's talk about hypocrisy and lies! This is huge! I'm sure Ed is very worried about the Supreme Court judges Trump will appoint before he is done.

Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

RickD wrote:
I can understand leftists complaining endlessly about Trump. But someone who claims to be Christian?

If Christians do not speak out against...
Immoral behavior, repeated lies, corruption, and criminal behavior when the leader in question is a 'Republican', then Christians sacrifice their testimony regarding moral behavior... especially when they repeatedly chastise 'Democrats' for behavior that they turn a blind eye to in 'Republicans'.

There is a word for that type of behavior... hypocrisy.

I understand and have some level of sympathy for the 'lesser of two evils' argument.

However, I do not understand elements of the evangelical communipolitician who full heartedly supported an immoral lying criminal. I think the evangelical community damaged their reputation and testimony when they became apologists for immoral criminal behavior in 2016.

Your problem is you actually believe the slander the liberals and MSM use against Republicans.You have totally forgot how the left uses character assassination to win politically and you buy into it again hook,line and sinker after havng seen it done many times.While I don't.If the left accuses Trump of something I know they are lying and the opposite is true,yet you believe them.

Your response clearly demonstrates part of the problem here.
As I've pointed out many times, Trump is a pathological liar and a skilled con man.

There is a narrative that Trump perpetuates that has nothing to do with truth and reality. Anything that comes into conflict with Trumps narrative is immediately labeled by Trump and his apparatus as 'fake news' and left wing propaganda regardless of whether it is true or false.

I do not take the left wing media at face value, and I do not take Trump's public relations apparatus at face value either. (I don't take the right wing media at face value these days either). I try my best to wade through the lies and misrepresentations on all sides to arrive at the truth.

Truth is important to me, and Trump has no regard for the truth. Trump only cares about the narrative that he wishes to perpetuate, and how many people he can get to believe his narrative.

Your assertion about me "you actually believe the slander the liberals and MSM use against Republicans" is factually untrue. As are many of your assertions about Trump.
You have embraced the Trump narrative, therefore you constantly repeat the untrue elements of the Trump narrative.

I have no problem acknowledging the good things that Trump has done, and I have done so in this thread.

But acknowledging Trumps positive actions does not mean I will turn a blind eye to his lies and corrupt criminal behavior.

RickD wrote:
I can understand leftists complaining endlessly about Trump. But someone who claims to be Christian?

If Christians do not speak out against...
Immoral behavior, repeated lies, corruption, and criminal behavior when the leader in question is a 'Republican', then Christians sacrifice their testimony regarding moral behavior... especially when they repeatedly chastise 'Democrats' for behavior that they turn a blind eye to in 'Republicans'.

There is a word for that type of behavior... hypocrisy.

I understand and have some level of sympathy for the 'lesser of two evils' argument.

However, I do not understand elements of the evangelical communipolitician who full heartedly supported an immoral lying criminal. I think the evangelical community damaged their reputation and testimony when they became apologists for immoral criminal behavior in 2016.

Your problem is you actually believe the slander the liberals and MSM use against Republicans.You have totally forgot how the left uses character assassination to win politically and you buy into it again hook,line and sinker after havng seen it done many times.While I don't.If the left accuses Trump of something I know they are lying and the opposite is true,yet you believe them.

Your response clearly demonstrates part of the problem here.
As I've pointed out many times, Trump is a pathological liar and a skilled con man.

There is a narrative that Trump perpetuates that has nothing to do with truth and reality. Anything that comes into conflict with Trumps narrative is immediately labeled by Trump and his apparatus as 'fake news' and left wing propaganda regardless of whether it is true or false.

I do not take the left wing media at face value, and I do not take Trump's public relations apparatus at face value either. (I don't take the right wing media at face value these days either). I try my best to wade through the lies and misrepresentations on all sides to arrive at the truth.

Truth is important to me, and Trump has no regard for the truth. Trump only cares about the narrative that he wishes to perpetuate, and how many people he can get to believe his narrative.

Your assertion about me "you actually believe the slander the liberals and MSM use against Republicans" is factually untrue. As are many of your assertions about Trump.
You have embraced the Trump narrative, therefore you constantly repeat the untrue elements of the Trump narrative.

I have no problem acknowledging the good things that Trump has done, and I have done so in this thread.

But acknowledging Trumps positive actions does not mean I will turn a blind eye to his lies and corrupt criminal behavior.

Since you brought up pathological liars,conman and hypocrisy tell me how as a pro-lifer you can keep on voting for so called Republicans running as Christians,talking about their faith in Christ while running on a pro-life platform for years and years and never is anything ever done about abortion?And yet Donald Trump in his first year has done more for the prolife platform than any of the politicians in washington you prop up and defend so much who were hypocrites,conmen and patholgical liars just using you for your vote at election time to con you into voting for them.Then nothing!Everything you accuse Trump of is exactly what politicians have done in both parties for years and years and yet you don't want it to stop,like I do.I mean it is funny to hear you call Trump a pathological liar and conman actually supporting politicians and propping them up as righteous men and women.

Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

RickD wrote:
I can understand leftists complaining endlessly about Trump. But someone who claims to be Christian?

If Christians do not speak out against...
Immoral behavior, repeated lies, corruption, and criminal behavior when the leader in question is a 'Republican', then Christians sacrifice their testimony regarding moral behavior... especially when they repeatedly chastise 'Democrats' for behavior that they turn a blind eye to in 'Republicans'.

There is a word for that type of behavior... hypocrisy.

I understand and have some level of sympathy for the 'lesser of two evils' argument.

However, I do not understand elements of the evangelical communipolitician who full heartedly supported an immoral lying criminal. I think the evangelical community damaged their reputation and testimony when they became apologists for immoral criminal behavior in 2016.

Your problem is you actually believe the slander the liberals and MSM use against Republicans.You have totally forgot how the left uses character assassination to win politically and you buy into it again hook,line and sinker after havng seen it done many times.While I don't.If the left accuses Trump of something I know they are lying and the opposite is true,yet you believe them.

You are also caught up in the status- quo Republican vs Democrat political game and want to keep at it eventhough there is not much difference between both parties and both parties policies have been bad for America.

You overlooked that America is fed up with both political parties games and realized we needed a change and Trump was the only one who was not a politician that we could trust to lead America in a better direction than both parties have been doing and can. America is tired of being ignored by Washington and has been trying to get their attention since the tea party days.Well Trump was our only answer after how the tea partiers were stabbed in the back.

It is not hypocrisy to doubt anything the liberals accuse Trump of because they have absolutely no credibility whatsoever and how you actually decided to believe them is beyond me. You seem to like the status-quo weak Republian vs Democrat lesser than two evil political system we were trapped in as Americans. We needed a way out and Trump was the only answer in this election.

You should not trust the lies,slander and character assassination of the left like you have because it has caused you to be totally blind to the political revolution taking place right now.Also even if you want to judge Trump's faith in the bible and Christ which is a very dangerous road to go down,just as I predicted before the election if Trump won that he would be friendly to Christians and he has been and yet you totally seem to disregard how much more Trump has done for Christians than any other President both Republican and Democrat and yet you are totally overlooking it and taking it for granted.

I mean Trump has done more for the pro-life movement than any Republican ever has and they ran as Christians who were pro-life,and they did nothing. Trump is actually going after planned parenthood unlike any Republican pro-lifer ever did. Yet how can you just overlook it when pro-life has been so important to conservative Christians? It is like Christians like you were not really serious about being Pro-life now that something is actually being done about abortion.

Did you forget that Trump ran as a pro-lifer? Did you forget in the debate with Hillary how he called her evil for defending partial birth abortion? Well Trump is actually delivering on his promises unlike any so-called Christian pro-lifer Republicans ever did.Let's talk about hypocrisy and lies! This is huge! I'm sure Ed is very worried about the Supreme Court judges Trump will appoint before he is done.

abelcainsbrother wrote:
Since you brought up pathological liars,conman and hypocrisy tell me how as a pro-lifer you can keep on voting for so called Republicans running as Christians,talking about their faith in Christ while running on a pro-life platform for years and years and never is anything ever done about abortion?

As a pro-lifer I have always supported pro-life candidates (including 2016 where I voted for a candidate who was pro-life out of conviction not political expediency). This is also one of the reasons that I cannot support the Democrats as a party.

During the primaries there were two things that caused me to doubt Trump's conviction to the pro-life cause.
1. First there were Trump's public statements from the past where he supported abortion rights including the horrific practice of partial birth abortion.
2. Trump confirmed my suspicions about political expediency when, in an interview with Chris Matthews, instead of presenting the pro-life position regarding abortion, he repeated the caricature perpetuated by the pro-abortion community that pro-lifers want to punish the mothers. This inability to accurately articulate the pro-life position demonstrated to me that Trump did not really understand the pro-life position.

You are factually incorrect with your assertion that Republicans have run on a pro-life platform for years and never done anything.
There have been many efforts by pro-life Republicans over the years to try and protect the unborn.
So the assertion that you are making is yet another example of false statements that are disseminated by the Trump propaganda apparatus.

Now let me end with something, that I think we can both agree on...
Whether the motivation is conviction or political expediency, I will support anything that Trump does to protect the unborn.

DB: Now let me end with something, that I think we can both agree on...
Whether the motivation is conviction or political expediency, I will support anything that Trump does to protect the unborn.

Again, knowing the likely conservative views of the Supreme Court picks and judges Trump would nominate vs. those Hillary would have - that was just one more factor in me voting for a very flawed candidate like Trump - given the alternative. Which leads me to another issue: Are people like Trump and Hillary the best our major parties can offer???!!!

abelcainsbrother wrote:
Since you brought up pathological liars,conman and hypocrisy tell me how as a pro-lifer you can keep on voting for so called Republicans running as Christians,talking about their faith in Christ while running on a pro-life platform for years and years and never is anything ever done about abortion?

As a pro-lifer I have always supported pro-life candidates (including 2016 where I voted for a candidate who was pro-life out of conviction not political expediency). This is also one of the reasons that I cannot support the Democrats as a party.

During the primaries there were two things that caused me to doubt Trump's conviction to the pro-life cause.
1. First there were Trump's public statements from the past where he supported abortion rights including the horrific practice of partial birth abortion.
2. Trump confirmed my suspicions about political expediency when, in an interview with Chris Matthews, instead of presenting the pro-life position regarding abortion, he repeated the caricature perpetuated by the pro-abortion community that pro-lifers want to punish the mothers. This inability to accurately articulate the pro-life position demonstrated to me that Trump did not really understand the pro-life position.

You are factually incorrect with your assertion that Republicans have run on a pro-life platform for years and never done anything.
There have been many efforts by pro-life Republicans over the years to try and protect the unborn.
So the assertion that you are making is yet another example of false statements that are disseminated by the Trump propaganda apparatus.

Now let me end with something, that I think we can both agree on...
Whether the motivation is conviction or political expediency, I will support anything that Trump does to protect the unborn.

I wish you could tell me what Republicans have done about abortion,as a matter of fact I cannot think of even one conservative issue the Republicans ever won and held for us.It is just like Trump said the Republicans have forgot how to win politically.And he is right because it is the Democrats that have got their political ways for years and have held all of the issues that are important to them.So I ask you,how long can this go on not getting anything for voting for conservatives for years and years and nothing except maybe tax cuts that only last until liberals get back into power? I mean we cannot keep on going in the direction we're going like you seem to want to. Now I know you don't think you are,but by you not willing to support Trump,you are assentially supporting and defending the status-quo and I don't understand how you could choose to still want to go back to that because you despise Trump so much.

But even more,even if you did not believe or trust Trump when he ran for whatever reason.I would think that after his performance over his first year of actually fulfilling many of his campaign promises especially on the abortion issue,you would admit that maybe you were wrong about Trump. I mean sure we both know that both parties have obstructed much of his agenda,eventhough he actually won the election,when no one thought he would,and that they don't agree with much of what he ran on,but they are still ignoring the American people just like with the tea party.So we still have Washington ignoring the American people.

It really seems to me that you have Trump Derangment Syndrome and it blinds you to the good things Trump is doing for Christians and the American people. I brought up the abortion issue because I know it is and has been a Christian issue and Trump is delivering for pro-lifers unlike we have ever seen before.He is making George W Bush look really bad after he ran as a Christian pro-lifer and never did anything about abortion and his Supreme Court picks were bad for pro-lifers because he listened to Ted Cruz.

Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

abelcainsbrother wrote:
I wish you could tell me what Republicans have done about abortion,as a matter of fact I cannot think of even one conservative issue the Republicans ever won and held for us.

You must not have tried very hard then... Google is your friend.
Here's one that I was able to find very quickly:
The Partial Birth Abortion Act of 2003
And there's more where that came from.

And Trump is not the only President to appoint conservative Justices to the Supreme Court either.

You just need to get past the lies of the Trump propaganda machine and do a little research on your own.

LOL! Google is not my friend.The CEO of Google just stepped down and there is a reason for it helping Hillary and the liberals get their propaganda out there.The alt-right media is the only place that you will be informed on the issues.Fox News goes to the edge but stops just when things are happening like when Sean hannity brought up the seth Rich murder.You won't know about the truth of the murder of Seth Rich for instance,relying on Google.It is looking like Debbie Wasserman Shultz who ran the DNC during the election is who they are squeezing about it first,I think it will lead back to Hillary,but we'll have to see.Will she take the fall,or tell the truth about Hillary? Things are getting interesting,I hope you are informed.In Trump's first year We all seen him on the defensive over the Trump colluded with the Russians conspiracy theory but this year he hits back.

Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

abelcainsbrother wrote:
I wish you could tell me what Republicans have done about abortion,as a matter of fact I cannot think of even one conservative issue the Republicans ever won and held for us.

You must not have tried very hard then... Google is your friend.
Here's one that I was able to find very quickly:
The Partial Birth Abortion Act of 2003
And there's more where that came from.

And Trump is not the only President to appoint conservative Justices to the Supreme Court either.

You just need to get past the lies of the Trump propaganda machine and do a little research on your own.

The alt-right media is the only place that you will be informed on the issues.

I'm just going to pause and let that one sink in.
The alt-right media is built on lies and I'll use the term... "fake news"
If you rely on the alt-right media to keep informed, its no wonder that you often repeat their lies and misinformation.

Fox News goes to the edge but stops just when things are happening like when Sean hannity brought up the seth Rich murder.

Fox news had to retract the Seth Rich story, because it was based on a lie.

True confession time...
I used to be a big fan of Sean Hannity for over 15 years. I watched his show on Fox and listened to his radio show regularly.
I thought he did an effective job of promoting conservative political values and pushing back against the lies and misrepresentations of the liberal political elite.

Then came Trump.
Instead of pushing back against the lies and misrepresentations of the Trump campaign... and there were many!... Hannity got sucked into the Trump orbit and became an apologist for Trump's lies and criminal behavior.
Hannity was also a significant contributor to the lies surrounding Seth Rich.

Trump has forced me to reevaluate the integrity and values of many political and religious leaders that I used to respect and look up to. It was shocking to me to see how many leaders that I respected turn a blind eye to the teachings of Christ and conservative values and embrace the lies and criminal behavior of Trump.

Let me say again, I am not referring here to the many Christians who were were forced to make a decision between the "lesser of two evils". The candidates for both major parties in 2016 were immoral lying criminals. I get that.
I am talking about leaders in the Christian and political communities who became open apologists for Trump's lies and immoral criminal behavior.

abelcainsbrother wrote:
I wish you could tell me what Republicans have done about abortion,as a matter of fact I cannot think of even one conservative issue the Republicans ever won and held for us.

You must not have tried very hard then... Google is your friend.
Here's one that I was able to find very quickly:
The Partial Birth Abortion Act of 2003
And there's more where that came from.

And Trump is not the only President to appoint conservative Justices to the Supreme Court either.

You just need to get past the lies of the Trump propaganda machine and do a little research on your own.

The alt-right media is the only place that you will be informed on the issues.

I'm just going to pause and let that one sink in.
The alt-right media is built on lies and I'll use the term... "fake news"
If you rely on the alt-right media to keep informed, its no wonder that you often repeat their lies and misinformation.

Fox News goes to the edge but stops just when things are happening like when Sean hannity brought up the seth Rich murder.

Fox news had to retract the Seth Rich story, because it was based on a lie.

True confession time...
I used to be a big fan of Sean Hannity for over 15 years. I watched his show on Fox and listened to his radio show regularly.
I thought he did an effective job of promoting conservative political values and pushing back against the lies and misrepresentations of the liberal political elite.

Then came Trump.
Instead of pushing back against the lies and misrepresentations of the Trump campaign... and there were many!... Hannity got sucked into the Trump orbit and became an apologist for Trump's lies and criminal behavior.
Hannity was also a significant contributor to the lies surrounding Seth Rich.

Trump has forced me to reevaluate the integrity and values of many political and religious leaders that I used to respect and look up to. It was shocking to me to see how many leaders that I respected turn a blind eye to the teachings of Christ and conservative values and embrace the lies and criminal behavior of Trump.

Let me say again, I am not referring here to the many Christians who were were forced to make a decision between the "lesser of two evils". The candidates for both major parties in 2016 were immoral lying criminals. I get that.
I am talking about leaders in the Christian and political communities who became open apologists for Trump's lies and immoral criminal behavior.

Wanna bet? That the Seth Rich story is fake and that Debbie Wasserman Shultz is not being investigated for it? You're going to be wrong my friend,but believe what you will.Military style tribunals are coming my friend-RICO style.

You still have not answered me about what conservative issue the Republicans won and held for you that makes you defend them so much,I mean you have not got nothing to show for thinking you are staying true to conservative issues that matter. They do not matter to you.

You're defending them hypocritcal,pathological lying,conmen Republican politicians you are propping up as righteous men. I've got more conservative things in one year supporting Trump than you have for your blind support of Republicans for years and years who just lied to you and conned you into voting for them.

You also totally ignore the many times Sean Hannity WARNED the Republicans in the House and Senate even back when George W Bush was the President to stick to conservative issues or there will be repurcussions,and they ignored him and now are paying for it,with Donald Trump. Enjoy the conservative issues Trump gave to you,not the hypocritical,pathological lying,conmen Republican politicians you are propping up.

Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.