Clinton didn't launch a "war on terror" because that particular dish wasn't ready to be taken out of the oven yet. He spiced things up a bit and
moved them along by bombing Kosovo and Sudan, but the "war on terror" just hadn't cooked enough to be ready by the time he left office.

Hey I defended Bush! He is always on vacation when something bad happens. Never has he been working when something bad happens. So, like I said, is
it a firefighters fault if a building burns down while he is on vacation?

Originally posted by Full Metal
Hey I defended Bush! He is always on vacation when something bad happens. Never has he been working when something bad happens. So, like I said, is
it a firefighters fault if a building burns down while he is on vacation?

You must be joking?

Please tell me you are before I bother posting something on this thread...

Originally posted by Full Metal
What? I am trying to act like a republican, you know, see how the other side thinks, or doesn't since republicans don't think they just listen to
Bush/Their God on Earth.

But think about it, the republicans, using the logic that they have, could use this as a defense. SInce Bush is always on vacation when something bad
happens it isn't his fault.

Only in the little world you've created for yourself, FullMetal. You know, the one where all conservatives torture and eat babies and all liberals
wear halos?

Are you going to offer anything constructive to the debate or are you just going to rattle more of your unlinked, undocumented crap? I like the post
about vacation time...with no links to back up your information, yet again. I was going to go line by line and refute it, but after your very first
statement turned out to be false, I shook my head and decided it wasn't worth it to research your entire undocumented post.

So, first of all, Bush wasn't on vacation on 9/11, you would know that if you did even the slightest hint of research.

Secondly, as many have refuted over and over in the past, Bush's vacations are not vacations like you or I take (or like you would take if you were
out of school.) My vacations are generally spent doing minor improvements around my home, taking my kids to the park, being lazy and playing comp
games, etc. Now, here's a different scenario, made into a little dialog so that you can understand it:

Me: "I'm going on vacation for a week."
My Boss: "OK, make sure you take your laptop home, because we're going to need to contact you constantly and let you know what's going on. Oh, and
we're gonna need you to participate in daily meetings too."
Me: "um...I thought this was vacation?"
My Boss: "Well, you're not here, so it's a vacation. Also, while you're out, we're going to send the President of XX Co. to see you. We need
you to wine and dine him, make some agreements between our companies, and impress him."
Me: "Say what?"
My Boss: "Last thing. While you're off, we need you to tour around the country, make a speech every other day or so."
Me: "This is a vacation?"

I can tell you right now, I've looked at his schedules during his vacation time and they're busier than mine are when I'm working. I can also say,
with conviction, that your streak of useless posts with no information contributing to the discussion continues.

The Republicans are running out of excuses for Bush poor performances as a President that they are looking for better and newer reasons and proof of
Clinton’s blame for the Bush presidency fiascos.

Taking in consideration that the Republican party control the two branches of the government including the presidential seat it makes some wonder as
why Clinton always comes to the minds of the Blaming team

Record deficits, national debt, the fiasco in Iraq with our already over extended troops, a weak dollar, weaken international support, I guess we need
to get Clinton as the guilty party here, not Bush, he is just the lame duck he is not at fault.

But the problem is . . . that is getting old . . . with Bush latest public opinion’s rating most Americans are catching up with the blame
game and Clinton’s fault is starting to sound lame.

Hey let’s blame Clinton for the gas prices, home heating oil prices coming up in the winter and occurs we need to blame him for the record profits
of the oil barons and the infamous Bird Flu I think Clinton can take a littler bit more and still he will have a better public approval that
Bush will ever get as a president even when Clinton got caught with his head in his hands in the oval office and lie about it.

Oh yes he wasn't on Vacation, he was working so hard reading to kids in Florida. That must have taken 100% of his concentration readin that book. I
mean, when I read a book for 3 year olds I know I would call it work...

You're all just playing the game that the true powers-that-be want you to play. You're pointlessly squabbling amongst yourselves-- "It's all
Clinton's fault!" "No it's not-- it's Bush's fault!"

Clinton and Bush are both employees. Both got to where they did so that they could do the bidding of their patrons, and both did just that. While
you're all haranguing each other and trying to prove that your guy is fine and the other guy is the problem, the people who brought
both of them to power continue to do as they please.

Bob LaoTse, your arguement might work if people supported either of them. Since I am not a supporter of Bush or Clinton, your point is mute.

However, looking into the guilt of Bush is something that is important to many people over the World. Just as it is if he lied to people or not. The
only way to force a President to stop lying is to get more and more of them outed and punished for their actions.

Originally posted by Bob LaoTse
While you're all haranguing each other and trying to prove that your guy is fine and the other guy is the problem, the people who
brought both of them to power continue to do as they please.

Yeah, that may be true for some, but I've never been a Democrat or a Republican so there is no 'my guy' and 'the other guy'. I don't need a
'guy' to see what a FUBAR situation this is, to KNOW who's responsible and to see that the guys who are responsible are trying to blame
someone else. Just happens to be the Democrats they're trying to blame or Clinton specifically. He wasn't 'my guy' either.

Lying is THE primary prerequisite for running for political office. Nobody can hold office unless they can cast the government's ongoing quest for
ever more power as "bringing Democracy to the world" or "protecting the citizens" or "ensuring your financial independence" or "guaranteeing
fiscal responsibility" or whatever the lie du'jour might be.

So there are people who accuse Clinton of being responsible for the state of the US today-- so what? How does it help any to say, "No, it's not
Clinton-- it's Bush," when the truth is that neither one of them a) is a free agent, and b) has enough power to be responsible for anything.

Regardless of your reasons, the truth is that you are all, as I already said, simply squabbling and bickering about whether it's Clinton or Bush who
should get the blame for the state of the world, when the truth is that they're both nothing more than figureheads, designed to divert attention from
those who really hold the power.

If you really want to find someone to blame, do some research into the Trilateral Commission and the Council on Foreign Relations. Take a look at
Bush's neo-con handlers and at the corporate interests that supported both of them. Pointing fingers at the politicians themselves is a
fool's game, and one that we are indoctrinated into. So long as we the people continue to believe that the reins of power are actually held by those
who hold office, then the people who REALLY hold the power can continue to do so, unobserved and unencumbered, and so long as we continue to attack
each other's notions of which politician is responsible for which debacle, we dissipate our own energies in the wrong directions and ensure that
those who seek to wield power over us can continue to do so.

When we fight with each other, we fight against ourselves. We are each not each other's enemies-- ALL of us have common enemies, much though those
enemies try, mostly successfully, to get us to fail to see that fact.

Originally posted by Full Metal
Oh yes he wasn't on Vacation, he was working so hard reading to kids in Florida. That must have taken 100% of his concentration readin that book. I
mean, when I read a book for 3 year olds I know I would call it work...

You really haven't a clue about anything do you? I've never heard the argument before that Bush was wasting his time reading to school children
that morning, you must have some new insight into this that nobody else has. You can present the argument that he should have been up and out of that
chair and handling the problem immediately and you may have a point. But, criticizing the visit...that's ignorant.

Bush was at Booker elementary that morning on a reading program demonstration. This school (Emma E. Booker) was named after an african-american
educator that started the first black school in sarasota. The school also is located on Dr. Martin Luther King Way. So, what we have here is the
President of the US, who hates black people. (according to the extreme left at least) taking time out of his day to visit a predominantly black school
and tout education. Can you imagine being one of the kids in that class? Visits like this make an entire classroom of kids feel "special" and
likely try all the harder.

But, this makes sense I guess. I didn't like school when I was your age either, time and increased maturity will change your opinion on many things.
The FullMetal streak continues...

Originally posted by rhelt100
Bush was at Booker elementary that morning on a reading program demonstration. This school (Emma E. Booker) was named after an african-american
educator that started the first black school in sarasota. The school also is located on Dr. Martin Luther King Way. So, what we have here is the
President of the US, who hates black people. (according to the extreme left at least) taking time out of his day to visit a predominantly black school
and tout education. Can you imagine being one of the kids in that class? Visits like this make an entire classroom of kids feel "special" and
likely try all the harder.

But, this makes sense I guess. I didn't like school when I was your age either, time and increased maturity will change your opinion on many
things..........

If "time & maturity" will change FM's perception on assigning blame where it obviously sits, is your hypothosis that we all become Republicans
as we get older!?

I guess I'm your anomoly to the lab run - I was a Republican 20 years ago!

A point to note:
"The Education President" was in Florida for a photo opportunity. The school was selected due to several reasons: 1)his abysmal poll numbers that
were even more morose among African Americans.
2) It was part of the "stumping" for his "education reforms" - the ones that only came out after the economic data which indicated the'perfect
storm' of public awareness to faulty Trickle Down Economic policy.
3) Scrutiny of all of that was finally happening - the media complicitness in INSTALLATION 2000 wa wearing thin among the rank & file, and beat
reporters were asking questions....again. Hence, the vacation + deflection of topic....something that has become a tried & true formula.

Let's not forget the real reason for that little reading-is-funFORmentals exercise - Now let us turn our Sherlockian logic on 9-11. Hijacked
aircraft were wandering across the eastern half of the country. In theory nobody could have known how many there are or if more planes were not in the
process of being hijacked. How could they? Two of the planes had crashed into the World Trade Center. There is an airport only four miles from Booker
Elementary School, and Bush's presence at the school was in the news media days in advance. The Sarasota Herald Tribune announced Bush's visit to
Booker on September 8th, given the 9-11 planners three days to include Bush as a target for a diving jetliner. Nobody could have safely assumed he was
not a target.

And yet the Secret Service did not rush in and remove the President to a secure location, or at least to the safety of the armored Presidential
Limousine. That's their job. That's what they do in the case of a real surprise attack with so many unknowns. They don't do anything else.

But the Secret Service did nothing. The dog did not bark.

Inspector Gregory: "Is there any other point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"

I remember being a bit surprised that the SS didn't hustle Bush out of there.

If I had been president on 9/11, I would have excused myself, made a statement, and consulted with my advisors. I'm sure the kids would have
understood, it being a national emergency and everything....

Wait, if I have to become a republican because I graduate from school or get older then I'd rather stay in school and stay under 21 rather then
become a mindless sheeple to the people who will destroy this country. A Empire is always destroyed from the inside by conservatives. ROme? When
they were Liberal they lasted for centuries, the church took over, made it conservative, it fell the next week. America? Going great, for the
people, conservatives took control and nearly killed the country, thankfully FDR was elected and turned the country around. But now you see it all
over again, conservatives in power, crappy country and getting worse.

Also, never thought of that. I mean, either it was planned or the SS were crossing their fingers hoping a plane landed on the president.

If "time & maturity" will change FM's perception on assigning blame where it obviously sits, is your hypothosis that we all become Republicans
as we get older!?

I guess I'm your anomoly to the lab run - I was a Republican 20 years ago!

You obviously didn't read my entire post. What I was eluding to is that time and maturity will change FullMetal's opinion that going to an
elementary school and reading to children to tout education is a waste of time. Judging by his comment, FullMetal seems to think that the President
doing such a thing is stupid. That's why I commented that when he's out of school and matured a little, he will see how valuable education is.

I'm really not sure why you went off on the Secret Service not whisking him off tangent since it seems to have very little to do with what we were
discussing.

Originally posted by Bout Time
Wait, if I have to become a republican because I graduate from school or get older then I'd rather stay in school and stay under 21 rather then
become a mindless sheeple to the people who will destroy this country. A Empire is always destroyed from the inside by conservatives. ROme? When they
were Liberal they lasted for centuries, the church took over, made it conservative, it fell the next week. America? Going great, for the people,
conservatives took control and nearly killed the country, thankfully FDR was elected and turned the country around. But now you see it all over again,
conservatives in power, crappy country and getting worse.

I like the way Bout Time twisted and changed my words and you just run with it so you don't have to even consider my original point.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable
Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Your streak is in jeopardy. Apart from the first few lines, you actually made a few intelligent points. I don't agree with them, but at least most
of your post was a coherent argument instead of just anti-Bush slurs.

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