barmydreams wrote:Hmmm i see it the other way round, I find the nods quite important even though they might have been improvised, for the simple reason Sofia decided to keep them in the final cut. My theory on why nod when it was just the two of them on the lift? Well, I think Bill wanted to highlight Bob and Charlottes situation, and it would have been too obvious if he'd said "Do you want to come back to my room?".

Exactly. There is barely a second wasted in this film. Why spend so long hanging-out in the elevator with them if nothing is really happening? I think it added to the "will they or won't they?" aspect, too. It's their last night together in Tokyo...their last chance to...whatever. A little suspense never hurts.

Why use body language, instead of speaking? Because saying it out loud ruins the moment, spoils the magic, and breaks the spell. And they are both too self-conscious around each other to go there.

He wasn't lying at all. He improvised the nod, because I think like hull_street said theres no way he would have asked her, the scene is far too awkward, they are not supposed to be upfront about their feelings, not now, and definetly not on the last night. I mean it's never really said between them is it? This is because they are both aware of what "might" happen. Bob doesn't ask Charlotte to hang out with him a bit longer because he can't, he's too self concious (plus Sofia would have scrapped it). So thats why he improvised the nod, to add some suspense to the scene and as ive said highlight the situation in a subtle way. They are both painfully aware of the situation and how awkward it is and what "could" happen, they both know how they feel about each other, and they can also read each other very well, body language etc. Bob makes the "ok, not a good idea, and rather uncomfortable face" at the end of this for that reason, which backs up what Bill said in the interview, Bob is aware of his weaknesses.

I mean it's the last night, theres no way they can spend it together, it was awkward enough as it was on the lift let alone anything else. Before it wasn't a problem, remember Bob slipping the note under Charlottes door? She went to his room, they hung out watching tv, talked, then fell asleep that was it, it wasn't awkward at all. The last night it's different , and they both know it, Bob realises this, which is why he doesn't pursue it and hence his facial expression.

JM, it seems that you are dead set on pushing your point here, and I must say that I am losing respect for you because of it. I don't give two tenths of a rip what Bill Murray said. If you feel that what he says is gospel, then good for you. It frees you from having to think. As for me, I will think what I wish, and if it troubles you, then please keep it to yourself. If you don't like what others here are saying, you are free to ignore them. Jesus, man, I used to think you had some sense.

My 2 cents -
Nods for sex is taking it a bit far anyway; no one is INSISTING the nods were for sex - just to continue the evening. Lay on the bed and hold feet one last time maybe.

As far as Crongruous' theory of the look by Charlotte- again, we are very free to interpret that any way we want - and none of those interpretations are inconsistent with any stated view of the movie by the actors or director. Maybe she did have a moment where she felt - "look, if you want to make a move, here's your last chance." Or maybe not.

What we keep forgetting is that are tired and have been drinking. Certain inhibitions are loosened - especially with that being the last night. It is reasonable to think that they both wanted more - and we will never know jsut how much more they had in mind.

The only thing that is important is that neither one gave in to any momentary weakness they may have felt.

And I say again - it is BRILLIANT that we feel ambiguity over this scene. No real dialog "crutch" to give us any clues.

"[quote:45117d58c0="Congruous"]JM, it seems that you are dead set on pushing your point here, and I must say that I am losing respect for you because of it. I don't give two tenths of a rip what Bill Murray said. If you feel that what he says is gospel, then good for you. It frees you from having to think. As for me, I will think what I wish, and if it troubles you, then please keep it to yourself. If you don't like what others here are saying, you are free to ignore them. Jesus, man, I used to think you had some sense.[/quote:45117d58c0]
More sense than to think that some stranger on the internet would be even slightly wounded if I were to withdrawal the great gift of my esteem of them.

May God lead us both to better paths."

Last edited by jm on Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

here's another wasted two cents.
Does sex have to say how you feel about someone. We can't really love eachother unless there is that overtly sexuall scene in the end. Thats hollywood i think. Or maybe what were taught to early on. I think the "sex' that Bob and Charlotte had with eachother was more intimate than any of us ever feel. I have watched this movie too many times. I just look at their eyes sometimes and can't imagine any better way to show intimacy. If nothing else this film showed me the beauty of relationships. I see and feel a love between Bob and Charlotte that rarely gets expressed today. If they had sex it may have ruined my LIT experience but at this point I don't care. I fell in love with Charlotte in the Karoke Bar when she looked at Bob during his turn at the mike. I will take the look in her eyes over any nude scene...ever.

josh wrote:here's another wasted two cents.
Does sex have to say how you feel about someone. We can't really love eachother unless there is that overtly sexuall scene in the end. Thats hollywood i think. Or maybe what were taught to early on. I think the "sex' that Bob and Charlotte had with eachother was more intimate than any of us ever feel. I have watched this movie too many times. I just look at their eyes sometimes and can't imagine any better way to show intimacy. If nothing else this film showed me the beauty of relationships. I see and feel a love between Bob and Charlotte that rarely gets expressed today. If they had sex it may have ruined my LIT experience but at this point I don't care. I fell in love with Charlotte in the Karoke Bar when she looked at Bob during his turn at the mike. I will take the look in her eyes over any nude scene...ever.

haha, ya there ya go bud, lol....theres way to many to point out, but i would have to say when shes looking out teh window, looking out into tokyo, and that song "Tommib" is playing.....oh my god, i wanted to cry...it wasnt that big of a scen really, it just how everything was potrayed, and the music, and the moment was just right, so that touched me deeply for some reason ..........and the ending where Bob seys "hey you" and she turns around and gives him that smile.....oh my god, that smile, as you can tell from my sig, i LOVE that part, although its at the ending, its still my favorite, becaouse you see almost eveyr emotion go through her eyes at that one point....and it was a beautifull way to end a movie...

johnmonkey wrote:Good, then we're all agreed that the nods-for-sex scandal never happened.

I'm with JM on this. I've watched the movie a handful of times prior to ever reading this thread and never noticed any nodding gestures or picked up any "let's continue this in my room" vibes. What I took away was that the scene was all about a very awkward last goodbye and the 2 ton gorilla in the elevator with them was their unacknowledged romantic feelings for each other.

After reading what was said here I rewatched the scene again a few times very carefully and while there is definintely some head bobbing occurring IMO there is no purposeful gesture conveyed on Murray's part. I think too much is being read into it the scene by some.

Now to the topic at hand, my favorite part of LiT is pretty unoriginal. That final good bye scene is up among my all time favorites, if not the top. From the "Hey You" to the credits, it's fantastic. I love the kiss. Everyone knows it's coming and yet it still takes the breath away when it happens. Charlotte's expressions throughout this scene are heart melting.

Now for a twist, my *least* favorite part of LiT.

After giving Bob his coat and sharing yet another awkward goodbye, Charlotte heads to the elevator. Bob's long look at her as she walks away are painful to watch. Charlotte gets in the elevator and NEVER LOOKS BACK AT HIM. Not even a glance in his direction. That just didn't gibe with me. It's the last time she'll ever see him. Everything important is still unsaid and they're still in that "I wonder if he/she..." stage. She would've looked back, even if just to see if he was looking at her. Sofia's one off note for me in the movie.

DangerMouse wrote:Charlotte gets in the elevator and NEVER LOOKS BACK AT HIM. Not even a glance in his direction. That just didn't gibe with me. It's the last time she'll ever see him. Everything important is still unsaid and they're still in that "I wonder if he/she..." stage. She would've looked back, even if just to see if he was looking at her. Sofia's one off note for me in the movie.

True.. I did notice that also and I'm not disagreeing with ya.

But when I read the actual script to the movie, this part referred to Charlotte being a little hurt since Bob didn't really offer any other parting words to her. She wanted him to do more. The "Aren't you gonna wish me have a good fright?" line was improvised by Murray I believe.

IMHO.. this was maybe Scarlett's interpretation as well and I think she was waiting for Bob to do something when she shrugged and was looking at him in that same lobby goodbye scene. When Bob didn't, she was kinda hurt since it WAS the last time they were going to see each other and Bob didn't express himself.

Now, when Bob surprised her in the "Hey You" scene. I saw the elation she felt when she turned around. Even more so when they finally "consumated" their feelings with the hug and kiss (and yah, its one of all time favorites as well). And after which, you now see Charlotte looking back to him as she walks away and Bob doesn't look back. Nevertheless, the joy was there for her since now Bob had acknowledged that the feelings were mutual.

Flyonthewall wrote:But when I read the actual script to the movie, this part referred to Charlotte being a little hurt since Bob didn't really offer any other parting words to her. She wanted him to do more. The "Aren't you gonna wish me have a good fright?" line was improvised by Murray I believe.

IMHO.. this was maybe Scarlett's interpretation as well and I think she was waiting for Bob to do something when she shrugged and was looking at him in that same lobby goodbye scene. When Bob didn't, she was kinda hurt since it WAS the last time they were going to see each other and Bob didn't express himself.

Hmmm, I can almost buy that. She definitely appears to be waiting for him to say something, anything. Especially given that she's already blurted out that she'll miss him and that he should stay with her with little to no response from him in either instance.

Still I just don't see how she would go the "petty" route at this final juncture. Or if she were to be "punishing" him by not looking back, I'd think she'd look less casual about it. She just seems too nonchalant given the circumstances.

Yeah I agree, I would have definetly looked back for sure, no matter how hurt I was. But it's the lead up to the final scene, and thats perhaps why we're given such an amazing ending, Bob has to do something, he can't leave her like that, no way.

The first night out on the town, with the Karaoke scene have always been my favourite scenes. I used to so look forward to it, because I felt like I was with them partying and having the same adventure. And during Karaoke I had always felt that the connection between Bob and Charlotte really took a huge step forward. And that scene where Charlotte puts her head on Bob's shoulder, wow...that just made me feel so good. Such trust and caring for each other.

I also love alone in Kyoto. So serene, peaceful, and a little sad.

And, of course, the ending. But, I never wanted the movie to end, so I always felt bittersweet about the ending.

Suntory times commercial rocks too!

Now, I just love the whole movie, it's like one scene from beginning to end. I can't pick any one scene to love the most anymore.