I'm pretty good at being able to remember my own stuff, but I do sometimes need to double check my CS. I'm also pretty good at remembering stuff others have, if they've used it.

Like I know Malak, Darnak and I all have outflank, but I could have sworn Malak also had Precise Strike. Maybe I was just remembering talking bout him takin it back before the game actually started, lol.

It's like me; trying to remember 18 levels of abilities for everyone usually means I forget something once per combat. Hey, at least I remember now that Thaddicus doesn't provoke AoO for using a bow. And now I shouldn't forget about crane style.

Darnak really is invulnerable. Just watch out for witch hexes.

It's pretty cool that I built him for such defense, and it's actually working out pretty dang well. It's quite fun. :)

As I've said, I literally worked on building him to be able to defense against everything. I tried to think of every situation possible. I wanted it to where a 1 is the only thing that's gonna kill him(as per saves), and a 20 is the only thing gonna hit him. The 1 just about got him too. Obviously it's impossible to prepare everything, but I've gotten pretty close. :)

'Course, now you got me worried about this whole 'witch hex' thing. I know nothing of witch hexes. *nervously bites on nails*

If those 40's hit and the 39 on the crit, that's 77 points of damage. Granted he's not built for offense, but get this...

I have a 1st level fighter on these boards that critted with a scythe. He did 57 points of damage. With 1 hit.

How weird is that. My 18th level monk who hit 3 times with a possible crit(making 4 hits in a sense), did only 20 more points of damage than a 1st level fighter who hit only once(I guess that would also make 4 hits in a sense as well). Still weird though.

Think about that. Can you imagine what a 18 level fighter could be doing? Well besides failing Will saves of course. :P

You know, I've got this fighter/barbarian built up at this level due to the fact I was pondering who to run initially. Here's a bit of info on him...

When he's hasted an invokes righteous might from his armor, he does 3d6 + 65 points of damage with each hit. With a +41/36/31/26 attack. But his AC is trash and his Will and Reflex are pathetic as well. His hit points are at 470 though. Sacrifice one for the other, I guess.

Just thought I'd throw the 18th/1st level comparison out there because I thought it was interesting.

Divine Bond: This functions as the ability of the same name the Paladin ability. If you already have Divine Bond, your levels of Divine Emissary stack for any bonuses. You also no longer have a limit to the amount of bonuses your weapon gains.

If you are not a Paladin, you are treated as a Paladin equal to half your character level+Divine Emissary levels to determine the benefits of this ability.

If you've chosen the special mount version of this ability every five levels after 1st, the special mount gains +2 bonus Hit Dice, its natural armor increases by +2, its Strength adjustment increases by +1, and its Intelligence increases by +1. The mount’s spell resistance equals the divine emissary’s class level + its base.

At level 30(maybe higher?) you gain the other version of this ability, gaining both weapon and mount.

Granted Domain: Works just like the normal ability, but if you have a list of spells known, the domain spells are added to it, but are still castable only once per day.

Divine Justice(replaces Divine Inspiration): Your offensive abilities increase. If you have the Smite, Judgement, Favored Enemy or Domain class features, your Divine Emissary levels stack with the class that determines its bonuses. You also gain an extra use per day, if your class feature is limited.

If you have more than one of these class features, you may pick which one Divine Justice applies to each time.

Voice of the Gods(replaces Extra Smite): As a chosen agent of your god's will, your ability to influence others increases. You may add your Wisdom modifier to all Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate checks, along with a scared or profane bonus equal to your Divine Emissary levels.(maybe half?).

Bonus feats: same list, plus any feat that requires one to be either a Cleric, Inquisitor, Oracle, Paladin or Ranger. They may also pick any Combat feat.

I want to also come up with either improved versions of or replacements for Greater Planar Ally and Divine Hand.

They both kinda suck as is, but haven't come up with anything just yet.

Any thoughts?? I tried to make this useful for all divine classes, except Druid, cuz I'm not sure they fit, though one can easily add them in as well.

It looks pretty good, actually. I like the idea of making it broader so more divine classes can benefit. Still, even with the buffs, the divine bond animal will probably die in any epic fight. But so would a familiar, so I'm not really sure that's a bad thing. I'm assuming you will tone down the BAB requirement since I seem to remember that was 23 or something really high.

Malak, Darnak: are the two of you ok with the tie in proposal I mentoned earlier? Being decendants of the "PCs" who hung around with Aroden/Iomedae??

Im fine with it. Im not really familiar with Aroden's/Iomedae's stories but I could see this working well. It will be easier with Sparel and Malak since we could use just one of these 'PC's' to be our predecessor.

I ended up needing a new copy of Ascension emailed to me. Anyways, here's the divine template I was thinking we could gain, at some point. Modification is, as always, up to the DM. This is the 4th weakest template, with Hero-Deity, Prophet and Disciple ranking lower.

Integrated Class Features (Var.): Immortals with Outsider Hit Dice
(instead of Class Levels) gain class features of any class equal to half their
Hit Dice. Immortals with both Hit Dice and Class Levels do not count
their levels for the purposes of determining these integrated class
features, only their Hit Dice.

Divine Bonus (Ex): Quasi-deities add a +4 divine bonus to: armor class;
attack rolls; checks (ability checks, caster level checks, skill checks,
turning checks); difficulty class (for any special abilities, spell-like
abilities, spells); initiative; saving throws and spell resistance.

Divine Senses (Ex): The senses of a quasi-deity are three times
superior to that of the base creature.

Godly Realm (Var.): The size of its godly realm is equal to the radius
of its divine aura multiplied by the number of years it has ruled over the
area. Within that area it can impose a divine penalty to any or all characters
(even more powerful deities) equal to its divine bonus. In this case -4.

Grant Spells (Su): Quasi-deities can grant up to 7th-level spells. A
quasi-deity with a divine sponsor can grant spells of any level.

Immortality (Ex): A quasi-deity does not age, requires no air to
breathe, no food or drink, nor sleep.

Immunities (Ex): A quasi-deity is unaffected by natural effects such
as: ability damage, disease, natural elements (cold, drowning, fire, lava,
lightning etc.), poison and so forth. They can still be affected by magical
cold, magical disease, magical fire etc.
e.g. A quasi-deity would be unaffected by the coldness of outer space.
However, the same quasi-deity would be susceptible to damage from a
cone of cold spell.

Spell Resistance (Su): Quasi-deities gain Spell Resistance equal to
their total Hit Dice/Levels +14 (10 + Divine Bonus Special Quality).

Old OneTotal Constitution Temporarily add single opponents constitution score to your own

I'm pretty sure we have a PC who would love a boost to their beefy badassness....

Next up, some Epic Feats:

Epic Feats:

AUTOMATIC METAMAGIC CAPACITY [EPIC] (SU)

You can cast spells that exceed the normal limits of spellcasting.

Prerequisites: Ability to cast spells at the normal maximum spell level in at least one spellcasting class, four metamagic feats.

Benefit: When you select this feat you gain one free level of metamagic
per round, which you may spontaneously apply to any spell (or spelllike
ability) you can cast.

It also stacks with existing metamagic deployment.

Special: A character can gain this feat multiple times. Each time they
gain the feat they gain one free level of metamagic per round. This feat
stacks, each time it is taken you gain an additional +1 free spell level of
metamagic.

This feat is suggested as the replacement for the following epic feats:
Automatic Quicken Spell; Automatic Silent Spell; Automatic Still Spell
and Improved Spell Capacity.
The various Automatic Quicken/Silent/Still spell feats are unbalanced.
Improved Spell Capacity becomes more pedantic the higher in power
you become, while in addition progressively alienating more and more
lower level spells.

WEAPON ABATEMENT [EPIC] (SU)

You miraculously avoid the first blow of any weapon.

Prerequisites: Cha 25.

Benefit: Only weapons that know you can harm you. The first time a
weapon strikes you the blow is turned aside as if by a miracle or other
stroke of good fortune. Second and subsequent blows are not turned away.
Missile weapons have their first shot turned away, however a character
would be immune to someone throwing a brace of daggers at them.

As much as I want to be a deity, we need to beware of power creep. We're pretty badass as it is. If we take on deity templates it's going to be hell to figure out anything to challenge us. Just saying.

I'm all for being a deity if DM can handle it. I LOVE playing a powerful character. I've played an epic game before and it went really well. Just want to make sure we don't accidentally make things insane for ourselves.

I'm all for powerful characters and classes. None of that bothers me. As for the idea of being behind the scenes, your characters can try to work at being less known. But great deeds draw great attention. Even if you don't drink with the troops, people will know you or about you.

That's why I had you come up with a name. Even if they don't know each of your names, the name of the group will be known.

And your character should ask himself if he wants to cut himself off from other people just to avoid fame. Think about how that affects people in real life.

'Course, now you got me worried about this whole 'witch hex' thing. I know nothing of witch hexes. *nervously bites on nails*

The witch class uses a limited wizard spell list. In exchange, they gain hexes, which are spell-like abilities. Spell resistance is no help against them.

I thought SLA's were subject to spell resistance (SR), like spells. However, extraordinary (EX) was not subject to spell resistance.

Thanks. Spell resistance affects spells and spell-like abilities. The witch hexes are supernatural abilities, which are not affected. I used the wrong term there. Sorry.

Relavent text:

Spell Resistance

Spell resistance (abbreviated SR) is the extraordinary ability to avoid being affected by spells. Some spells also grant spell resistance.

To affect a creature that has spell resistance, a spellcaster must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) at least equal to the creature's spell resistance. The defender's spell resistance is like an Armor Class against magical attacks. If the caster fails the check, the spell doesn't affect the creature. The possessor does not have to do anything special to use spell resistance. The creature need not even be aware of the threat for its spell resistance to operate.

Only spells and spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance. Extraordinary and supernatural abilities (including enhancement bonuses on magic weapons) are not. A creature can have some abilities that are subject to spell resistance and some that are not. Even some spells ignore spell resistance; see When Spell Resistance Applies, below.

Look, being known and all that is fine. I guess I really can't explain with words what I'm trying to say. Oh well, I'll just have to leave it as is.

But I'm just not interested in being some form of deity. It's not Darnak's style. I don't want him to be something that I don't feel fits his persona. That's the gist of all I'm saying.

If it's something that's necessary for the game, then fine. I don't want to hold up any type of story line involved. I just want it to be clear on my opinion on the whole thing. Because that's all it is.

TCG wrote:

As much as I want to be a deity, we need to beware of power creep. We're pretty bada$$ as it is. If we take on deity templates it's going to be hell to figure out anything to challenge us. Just saying.

I'm also in agreement with what TCG said as well. You get too powerful, it gets more difficult to find proper challenges. And it gets boring.

As awesome as we are now, we're still dealing with scares from the creatures that Arbiter's thrown at us. As it should be. That is fun to me.

I actually am not against being powerful. If I was I wouldn't have applied for this game. I'm a fan of it myself. Heck, when I first started this game 20 some odd years ago as a teenager, all I wanted was super power characters. But eventually I realized it's not all it's cracked up to be. Mainly when you get to the point that you're so powerful that nothing can stop you and your like, *Yawn*, against everything. Not fun.

Again, if it's to be a part of it all, then I'll deal. No biggie. Like TCG said, if you can make it to where it's challenging(as it has been) then that's fine. I would just hate to have the fun that it's been so far stripped away due to increased super-uber status.

Please do not feel like you have to do anything or take a particular class. If you want to have 50 levels of monk, or 50 levels of expert, I'm fine with that.

So far as super-uber status, you guys are going to be fighting demon lords at some point. And those guys don't face anyone alone. Even the battles in the Worldwound will be against armies. You've seen the damage you guys can do. Once you guys gain a few more levels, I won't have any qualms about throwing entire battle groups at the Daggers. So don't worry about a lack of challenge. I have books with CR 50 creatures in them, and people have been making monsters and posting them online for a decade now. There's plenty of things to throw at the group. And if one isn't a challenge, I'll throw 10 at you guys.

So don't worry about being too powerful. Things will really get crazy in a couple levels.

To give you guys an example: This combat right now includes creatures with spell-like abilities, supernatural abilities, DR 20/-- (as in, nothing bypasses that DR) and regeneration. It's a test to see what is a challenge to you guys while also being an encounter that advances the plot. I'll probably keep doing these for a level or so just to get a good sense of what the group can handle.

GM_Arbiter is right and a few levels from now is not going to equal Super badass unstoppable characters. Like Ive mentioned before I played a 3.5 character to 35 level and there were still plenty of challenging scenarios that couldve easily tpk'd us.

I have an Alchemist in Serpent Skull that is level 16. A few others have reached the 14 mark, but the one time my home group played high level stuff is when I went out of state for a couple years.

I don't know if Thad would do the deity thing either, he would certainly help try to kill some demons. There are plenty of powerful things out there that don't aspire to deity though. Granted that someone associated with something as big as the crusades will likely get popular, Thad still is more interested in being in the background.

Yeah, don't feel like you have to become a god or a servant of a god. That's why there are different classes. If one person wants to be a reborn god and another person wants to be a level 40 barbarian, we have rules for that so everyone has fun.

Now, the idea that was floating around before, as I understand it, just means that your families might have actually known Aroden. He was born Azlanti, one of the first humans (basically, that's the race that gets a +2 to all stats, not just one). Then he became a god thanks to the Starstone.

So, none of you have to be a god or become a god for that backstory idea to work. Aroden did lots of things as a mortal before he became a god. He also fought a demon cult in this very region. The cult opened the Worldwound later on. So there are lots of ways to make it work without becoming living gods yourselves.

Please do not feel like you have to do anything or take a particular class. If you want to have 50 levels of monk, or 50 levels of expert, I'm fine with that.

So far as super-uber status, you guys are going to be fighting demon lords at some point. And those guys don't face anyone alone. Even the battles in the Worldwound will be against armies. You've seen the damage you guys can do. Once you guys gain a few more levels, I won't have any qualms about throwing entire battle groups at the Daggers. So don't worry about a lack of challenge. I have books with CR 50 creatures in them, and people have been making monsters and posting them online for a decade now. There's plenty of things to throw at the group. And if one isn't a challenge, I'll throw 10 at you guys.

So don't worry about being too powerful. Things will really get crazy in a couple levels.

I understand peoples reservations about being a deity, it just might not be what your character aspires to.

That being said however, I want you guys to understand the level of divinity I'm suggesting for us. We won't be true gods, not like Iomedae, Zeus or Thor. In this system, beings can have the spark of divinity from level 5 way up to levels in the thousands.

Examples of Quasi-Deities using this system would be Gilgamesh, the Furies from Greek mythology and Solars.

So we're still low on the totem poll, so to speak and definitely not any sort of important. We could actually become divine now at level 18, but I figured this would be a good bonus when we break into Epic.

I'm not trying to change peoples minds, just explain what exactly I am suggesting.

Since we're going the super powerful route and heading to the plane of fire anyway I have an idea/ proposal that I'd like to run past everyone, but mostly Arbiter. It's a bit cheesy, but very much something a high level caster would do.

Efrites (CR 8) can cast wish 3/d on non-genies.

I'd like to negotiate with two of them for stat increasing wishes. I need 2 efritei because wishes need to be consecutive and I need 5 in a row.

With 2 it would take a few rounds over one month to increase every stat for every dagger by +5 and effectively cost the efreette nothing. SLA's don't require material components.

In return they would have very powerful allies that they could call upon should someone else try to bind them or what not.

Of course I could force them then destroy them after to keep them from getting backup, but I'm not evil and I'd rather negotiate.

What's our current total of gold? we had stuff we were going to sell from the Demon Tree didn't we? Is that included in the above 62k?

While I like your idea Spare, I don't think we should be wasting a month boosting our stats. Unless there's a time difference on the Plane of Fire, loosing a month of time in game is a really bad idea. We need to track down that renegade Technic Leaguer and givin him a month to lose us is not smart. It also gives our demonic enemies that much more time to prepare for us.

If one month on Plane of Fire=One month on Golarion, I say we just boost our main stat each and that's it. Even then we're still giving our enemies several days of freedom to do whatever they want.

We don't have to do nothing for a month. We just have to meet up with the efrittes once a day for a month. With our resources that's not difficult to arrange. They can stay in my plane for a month if they want.

Edit: basically they can raise one stat by 5 per day. 5 people with 6 stats each = 30 days to complete. It'll only take 5 rounds per day and leave us free the rest of he time. Also missing a day isn't a big deal, it'll just delay us by that much.

I know nothing of Efreet and what they do. But you're talking about +5 to EVERY STAT? Seriously? It does sound a bit cheesey, but I really can't disagree that's what a high level would do.

Not tomes or manuals? I guess they are a bit expensive.

I would have to echo Akor concerns about sitting around and doing nothing. But if we can go about it the way you just explained, Sparel, that would be more preferable. I could deal with that. Of course, this is if Arbiter even allows this.

Me personally, the only thing really left for Darnak is purchasing tomes or manuals. Mainly Str, Dex, Con, Wis. Which is like a billion gold or somesuch. Well, I'd like to check into some Ioun stones to help with my AC. :P

@Arbiter: Say we purchase another ring. Would it be possible to pay 1 1/2 times the amount and have it added to a current ring?

I know nothing of Efreet and what they do. But you're talking about +5 to EVERY STAT? Seriously? It does sound a bit cheesey, but I really can't disagree that's what a high level would do.

Not tomes or manuals? I guess they are a bit expensive.

I would have to echo Akor concerns about sitting around and doing nothing. But if we can go about it the way you just explained, Sparel, that would be more preferable. I could deal with that. Of course, this is if Arbiter even allows this.

Me personally, the only thing really left for Darnak is purchasing tomes or manuals. Mainly Str, Dex, Con, Wis. Which is like a billion gold or somesuch. Well, I'd like to check into some Ioun stones to help with my AC. :P

@Arbiter: Say we purchase another ring. Would it be possible to pay 1 1/2 times the amount and have it added to a current ring?

Efritte=Genies of fire.

In two levels I'll be able to cast wish myself. However, it's 25K per casting and you need 5 in a row to bump a stat to +5. Basically 125K per stat to bump it as much as you can. Depending on Arbiter's answer I may just save my money so I can bump my Int.

By the rules I could summon two Efritte and force them, but as I said I'd rather not for ethical reasons. though if we're going up against demon lords we'll need all the help we can get.