danwismar wrote:had KNR on in the car (don't let that get around) and just heard that Cam Newton tore his ACL in a workout for the Vikings.

ESPN was reporting this at about 12:20 this afternoon, according to the KNR guys, who were learning of it via text message...unconfirmed at the moment.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

I have been ignoring him, I barely click on this forum because its like he has explosive diarrhea all over in here. You cant click on a thread with out SD's shit smeared all over it. I said it is tough to negotiate through here until after the draft so like I said, I have been staying away, barely reading half and hardly participating. Then it will be ok again until the season starts and Sanchez or Newton puts up 16 TDs and 22 picks next year and we get to hear about how he was the pick and Colt is a mammies boy with a drippy vag. However, people staying away or just ignoring entire threads which he blows up is not conducive to a interesting environment in here.

Like I said SSDD, this forum would be infinitely better with out him. I would imagine an overwhelming majority agrees with me.

We don't need to go back and forth, you can have your peace and I will just stay out of here, just wish it didn't have to be that way is all I am saying.

Ziner wrote:I have been ignoring him, I barely click on this forum because its like he has explosive diarrhea all over in here. You cant click on a thread with out SD's shit smeared all over it. I said it is tough to negotiate through here until after the draft so like I said, I have been staying away, barely reading half and hardly participating. Then it will be ok again until the season starts and Sanchez or Newton puts up 16 TDs and 22 picks next year and we get to hear about how he was the pick and Colt is a mammies boy with a drippy vag. However, people staying away or just ignoring entire threads which he blows up is not conducive to a interesting environment in here.

Like I said SSDD, this forum would be infinitely better with out him. I would imagine an overwhelming majority agrees with me.

We don't need to go back and forth, you can have your peace and I will just stay out of here, just wish it didn't have to be that way is all I am saying.

SD:

You been ignoring me but you felt the need to snitch me out to the mods in a thread you were sure i would see to tell them how awful it is for you to ignore me .

I should partition Swerb about his policy for screening 12 year old posers , it just ain't working.

Negatives: Too manufactured-has a high effort delivery. Tends to hop in the pocket and is not much of a scrambling threat-can be flustered by the rush and takes too many sacks. Has a tendency to overstride when he goes deep, lowering his release point, and has to put his entire body into the throw and chuck it like it's a javelin. Puts too much air underneath the deep ball and launches some rainmakers. Inconsistent deep accuracy- was 0-for-7 throwing to his deep right in five games charted the past two years. Has an awkward follow-through and too often falls backward after he throws. Had a strong supporting cast with receivers who attacked the ball. Has a sense of entitlement, having attended private schools, worked with private QB coaches and being sheltered by his family, who bought a house on campus so his brothers had a place to stay for every game. Arrogant-can come off as having all the answers and struggle to win a locker room. Still immature. Comes across as overly staged, scripted and disingenuous in interviews and does not have the type of presence desired in the face of a franchise. Is not a fan of the weight room.

Summary: A tough, instinctive, competitive gamer who overhauled his mechanics from the time he was a freshman, physically matured and developed into a decisive marksman. Has been groomed by Charlie Weis and has an advanced understanding of the game that will allow him to step into a starting lineup readily. However, he is cut from the same cloth as Rex Grossman and J.P. Losman, possessing an elitist attitude and selfishness that could polarize a locker room and create needless drama that may detract from a team. The defining question of his career is whether he possesses the intangibles and makeup to become a leader and win the respect of his teammates."

SD:

Where is the football breakdown , on Newton , you'd think a football publication would give you some scouting dope in lieu of the National Enquirer redux or doesn't that drive sales.

Ziner wrote:I have been ignoring him, I barely click on this forum because its like he has explosive diarrhea all over in here. You cant click on a thread with out SD's shit smeared all over it. I said it is tough to negotiate through here until after the draft so like I said, I have been staying away, barely reading half and hardly participating. Then it will be ok again until the season starts and Sanchez or Newton puts up 16 TDs and 22 picks next year and we get to hear about how he was the pick and Colt is a mammies boy with a drippy vag. However, people staying away or just ignoring entire threads which he blows up is not conducive to a interesting environment in here.

Like I said SSDD, this forum would be infinitely better with out him. I would imagine an overwhelming majority agrees with me.

We don't need to go back and forth, you can have your peace and I will just stay out of here, just wish it didn't have to be that way is all I am saying.

The goal isn't to keep anyone out of the forum. It is to simply say, if a thread/post/concept/poster has been repeated so many times that is aggravates you, just move along within that thread.

Because I am sure there are just as many people that are sick of the pointless threads calling out SD for being SD.

Soon we will have just as many people sick of threads complaining about posters complaining about posters. Bad cycle, because it never ends.

e0y2e3 wrote:All this shit is is Ziner, he of zero sports takes ever, trying to get attention in the Browns forum.

Gotta cry to daddy when no one will look at you.

Or he could just crawl back into his righty banter shit hole.

Quite fresh coming from the Queen of "look at me" posts. If I gave a fuck I would go back through an bring up a plethora of threads in which you whined like the queen bitch about people in Cavs forums, or maybe about Tree, or maybe about Pros, or your constant attention trolling throughout the Browns forums about how awful the NFL is screaming and yelling with your arms in the air trying to get someone to debate you over something that has been talked about ad nauseum...but anyone who has every spent anytime here already knows, so I won't.

Get back to the Cavs forum, I am anxiously waiting your next Kelly Dwyer parrot act.

I had two posts and neither were attention whoring. If you really want to see serious attention go back through your history. Maybe you could find that sweet thread where you talked about how you would pillage this board as if everyone is going to follow old e0y2e3 to his new sandbox.

You could have at least brought something fresh here in your rebuttal…..

(and you should consider me pointing out the hypocrisy of your lack of even contributing to sports boards, with, you know, posts…. Yet still feeling entitled enough to ask daddy to pay attention to you when you cry about SD)

You’re a glorified bitch, no need to keep running tired rebuttals and insults at me to verify that.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

"I remember on my birthday, I threw for four touchdowns against the Cleveland Browns and I'm all happy and the game is getting ready to be over, and the next thing I know, my security team comes over and tells me there have been death threats on my life at the game and they have to walk me off the field. Do I know exactly why those death threats came? No, but I have a pretty good understanding of what they were probably about.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

"I remember on my birthday, I threw for four touchdowns against the Cleveland Browns and I'm all happy and the game is getting ready to be over, and the next thing I know, my security team comes over and tells me there have been death threats on my life at the game and they have to walk me off the field. Do I know exactly why those death threats came? No, but I have a pretty good understanding of what they were probably about.

Dude had to go to Canada to play ball , because idiots like Narwoki wrote shit like he's too small after never having seem him , same as this bastard fired off caps like he was sitting in the room and Newton had given him an in depth interview , when he's actually never met him much less talked to him.

Had to throw for over 5000 yards per year for six consecutive years awhile winning six consecutive Grey Cups Championships before the NFl came around that maybe somebody might have missed something in that original scouting report.

The lack of leadership critisim doesn't fit , as Moon reiterated nobody can lack leadership or fail to carry a lockeroom and go 14 -0 , undefeated in the SEC win a Heisman and a National Championship .

There is just no fuckin way that happens.

The lack of leadership particularly stuck in his craw because that was the old buzz word easily said and just as easily believed as to why Blacks couldn't play Middle Linebacker and QB the two so called thinking positions and key leadership spots on the team.

Hank Stram and the old AFC ended that stupid shit forever when Willie Lanier was the first black starting MLB ever in Pro Ball in the mid sixties .

So Moon wasn't too fuckin happy to be seeing that kinda shit revisited by some Jackass with a major publication to write such criticism while never even having met the kid especially about his personality when he isn't seeing the same while working with him everyday.

SD, everyone here knows Warren Moon's story, no one here needs you to revisit it and until Newton ends up in the CFL your take is crap, just like your implied accusations of racism....... in which you come off as the racist

...but I will say your use upthread of the word 'partition' was worth the click

Hope is a moment now long pastThe Shadow of Death is the one I castKoo koo ka joob....I am the Walrus

SD, everyone here knows Warren Moon's story, no one here needs you to revisit it and until Newton ends up in the CFL your take is crap, just like your implied accusations of racism....... in which you come off as the racist

...but I will say your use upthread of the word 'partition' was worth the click

SD:

I think it was irresponsible at the minimum with so much at stake ,to write on somebodies personality as if you have personal knowledge and the measure of the man , while never having met him or talked to him.

Could be just cavalier coincidence, on top of the witch hunt the kid endured thru the season .

motherscratcher wrote:Do you think Warren Moon would so vehemently be taking up the cause it Narwoki had written that same stuff about Blaine Gabbert?

SD:

I doubt he'd be drawing parralleles to his own expereinces when he was racially targeted and balckballed from the NFL if thats what your getting at .

Butt if Moon was working with Gabbert and somebody fired off what he considered to be unwarranted critisism of one of his students or teamates or former teamates , from someone who had never met them , he'd be all over that Mutha Fucka like white on rice same as he's defending Newton.

Brought up Moons involvement months ago with this kid .

Great HOFamers as a rule don't associate themselves with Jackoffs , so when I heard Moon was personally refining his game , I saw rhe mentor Vick never had and a kid coming into the league to the point where Vick is now understanding his need for study and improvement.

Warren Moon ain't anybodies jaw Jacking Al Sharpton , so if he felt the need to say something because he was getting the de ja vue vibes he felt when he was smeared with unwarranted critisism whats your bitch .

He works with the man everyday , so he'd be more in tune to refute such unsubstantiated observations..... no ? or remain mute if he thought any of it was true.

He asked who were these sources , was it teamates coaches who , or was it from scouts or GM's who had 15 minutes to see the kid .

Man won 6 straiht Grey cups and had the Houston Oilers as perennial contenders , so you'd have to think he knows a little of what he speaks vs naworki he ain't never done dick .

Even allowing for the closeness of his association, the left field critique just doesn't match the Collegiate record.

Back to back Championships first at Juco and then at the top levels of the NCAA meant 21 other players on two different teams musta saw something Narly Nutts missed.

Was Steve "Air" McNair blackballed in 95? Was McNabb blackballed in the '99 draft? Was Vick who was the FIRST OVERALL PICK in 2001? What about Vince Young?

I'm seeing him being pimped as a first rounder, despite having one fluke season.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

SoulDawg74 wrote:Man won 6 straiht Grey cups and had the Houston Oilers as perennial contenders , so you'd have to think he knows a little of what he speaks vs naworki he ain't never done dick .SoulDawg

Moon won 1 more game than he lost as Houston's main man, and led the Oilers to 2 ten win seasons, 2. He won 3 play off games in what 7-8 trips?

Jaworski while not the QB Moon was has an almost identical track record of winning, so with all due respect SD, take this quarter and spend it wisely.

Love you though my man, you make the rest of us look like geniuses half the time.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

motherscratcher wrote:Do you think Warren Moon would so vehemently be taking up the cause it Narwoki had written that same stuff about Blaine Gabbert?

SD:

I doubt he'd be drawing parralleles to his own expereinces when he was racially targeted and balckballed from the NFL if thats what your getting at .

Butt if Moon was working with Gabbert and somebody fired off what he considered to be unwarranted critisism of one of his students or teamates or former teamates , from someone who had never met them , he'd be all over that Mutha Fucka like white on rice same as he's defending Newton.

Brought up Moons involvement months ago with this kid .

Great HOFamers as a rule don't associate themselves with Jackoffs , so when I heard Moon was personally refining his game , I saw rhe mentor Vick never had and a kid coming into the league to the point where Vick is now understanding his need for study and improvement.

Warren Moon ain't anybodies jaw Jacking Al Sharpton , so if he felt the need to say something because he was getting the de ja vue vibes he felt when he was smeared with unwarranted critisism whats your bitch .

He works with the man everyday , so he'd be more in tune to refute such unsubstantiated observations..... no ? or remain mute if he thought any of it was true.

He asked who were these sources , was it teamates coaches who , or was it from scouts or GM's who had 15 minutes to see the kid .

Man won 6 straiht Grey cups and had the Houston Oilers as perennial contenders , so you'd have to think he knows a little of what he speaks vs naworki he ain't never done dick .

Even allowing for the closeness of his association, the left field critique just doesn't match the Collegiate record.

Back to back Championships first at Juco and then at the top levels of the NCAA meant 21 other players on two different teams musta saw something Narly Nutts missed.

SoulDawg

I guess what I'm saying is that if Moon had been working with Gabbert instead of Newton, and Norwocki wrote those things about Blaine, Moon would be free to defend him too. But, he'd have to do it without calling Narwocki a racist.

This is what Narwocki does. He evaluates to the best of his ability college players that are going to be among those selected in the NFL draft. To do this, he talks to players, coaches, scouts, GMs...probably a lot of different people to come up with his evaluation. And, to suggest that he's unqualified to have an opinion because he hasn't hung around a particular player enough is wrong. How the hell is he supposed to have access to every player he evaluates for a significant enough time to satisfy you?

Now, maybe he's wrong. Maybe his evaluation is off and unwarranted. Maybe cam is none of those things that Narwocki said. Or maybe he is. You're free to question that assessment if you want. I'm inclined to question it a bit myself as I don't recall hearing that about Cam from any other source.

But that doesn't make it racially motivated either. There's absolutely nothing here, or in Narwocki's history (that I'm aware of) to suggest that he's a racist and his poor evaluation is racially motivated.

It's terrible what happened to Moon all of those years ago. Things are different now, and a lot of the credit for that goes to guys like Moon. Cam Newton was, is, and will continue to be a top 10 draft pick regardless of what Narwocki has written about him.

Isn't it possible that Narwocki is wrong about Cam and still not a racist?

He was recruited by a number of colleges, but some wanted to convert Moon to another position as was the norm for many major colleges recruiting black high school quarterbacks.[9] Moon decided to attend West Los Angeles College in 1974–75 where he was a record-setting quarterback. After Moon showed his ability at West L.A., only a handful of four-year colleges showed interest in signing him. Offensive Coordinator Dick Scesniak of the University of Washington, however, was eager to sign the rifle-armed Moon. Moon was adamant that he play quarterback and considered himself to be perhaps a slightly above-average athlete who was either too small, too slow, or not strong enough to play other positions.[10] The Huskies went 11–11 in Moon's first 2 seasons as a starter; but during his senior year, Moon led the Don James coached Huskies to a 27–20 win over the favored Michigan Wolverines in the 1978 Rose Bowl and was named the game's Most Valuable Player on the strength of two short touchdown runs and a third quarter 28-yard touchdown pass to wide receiver Robert "Spider" Gaines.[edit] College statisticsYear Comp Att Comp % Passing TD INT1976 81 175 46.3 1,106 6 81977 125 222 56.3 1,772 12 9[edit] Professional careerQuestion book-new.svg This section needs additional citations for verification.Please help improve this article by adding reliable references. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (September 2009)[edit] Canadian Football League

Despite his collegiate success, Warren Moon went undrafted in the National Football League. Many pundits believe that it was because Moon was black and refused to switch positions — Moon has stated in interviews that before the draft some scouts advised him to switch to tight end. With no takers in the NFL, he turned to the Canadian Football League. Moon signed with the Edmonton Eskimos, where he and Tom Wilkinson shared signal-calling duties and helped lead the Eskimos to an unprecedented five consecutive Grey Cup victories in 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981 and 1982.[11] Moon won the offensive Grey Cup Most Valuable Player award in the 1980 and 1982 games. In his final CFL season of 1983, Moon threw for a league record 5,648 yards, and won the CFL's Most Outstanding Player Award. Throughout his CFL career, Moon amassed 1,369 completions on 2,382 attempts (57.4 completion percentage) for 21,228 yards and 144 touchdown passes. He also led his team to victory in 9 of 10 postseason games. He was inducted into the Canadian Football Hall of Fame in 2001 and the Edmonton Eskimos Wall of Honour. In 2006, he was ranked fifth on a list of the greatest 50 CFL players presented by Canadian sports network TSN.[edit] CFL statistics

******************************************

Now he coulda been blackballed because they didn't like the way he tied his shoes , as you can reach your own conclusions from two sketchy little paragraphs and interpret them any way you want .

But anybody with common sense can see there was something more than met the eyes.

uhhh...SD...uhh..in the 1978 draft, Doug Williams went No. 17 overall to the Bucs (led them to an NFC title game as well)...

If there was such racism in the NFL, why was he drafted?

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

Was Steve "Air" McNair blackballed in 95? Was McNabb blackballed in the '99 draft? Was Vick who was the FIRST OVERALL PICK in 2001? What about Vince Young?

I'm seeing him being pimped as a first rounder, despite having one fluke season.

SD:

Try and keep up nobody said Newton was blackballed , but when it comes to Moon , your dumbass wasn't even a lusty thought in your dads eye when he was competing on the gridiron.

You know nothing of that era or the bygone quota system , so stfu and pay attention you might learn something.

Moon was forced to come in as a 28 year old rookie , otherwise Dan Marino would have been sucking Hind tit long before Farve surpassed his records.

"""National Football League

Moon's decision to enter the NFL touched off a bidding war for his services, won by the Houston Oilers. However, with the NFL field being so much shorter and narrower than the CFL's, Moon had a difficult adjustment period. Even so, he still threw for a franchise record 3,338 yards in his first season with Oilers in 1984. It was only in 1986 when Oilers head coach Jerry Glanville found ways to best utilize Moon's strong arm that he began having success. In 1987, a season shortened by a players' strike that eliminated the third week of the regular NFL season, the Oilers posted a 9–6 record. It was the Oilers' first winning season since 1980, when Bum Phillips was the head coach and Ken "The Snake" Stabler was the quarterback. Moon then passed for 237 yards and a touchdown while leading the Oilers to a 23–20 overtime win over the Seattle Seahawks in the wildcard round of the playoffs in his first NFL postseason game.Moon at the Madden NFL 07 release party

Before the start of the 1989 season, Moon was given a five-year, $10 million contract extension, which made him the highest paid player in the National Football League at that time.[12] In 1990, Moon led the league with 4,689 passing yards. He also led the league in attempts (584), completions (362), and touchdowns (33), and tied Dan Marino's record with nine 300-yard games in a season. That included throwing for 527 yards against Kansas City on December 16, 1990, the second most passing yard ever in a single game.[13] The following year, he again led the league in passing yards 4,690. At the same time, he joined Marino and Dan Fouts as the only quarterbacks to post back-to-back 4,000-yard seasons. Moon also established new NFL records that season with 655 attempts and 404 completions. In 1991, Moon threw for a career-high 655 passes.

In 1992, Moon played only 11 games due to injuries, but still managed to lead the Oilers to a 10–6 record, including a victory over the Buffalo Bills in the final game of the season. Moon and the Oilers then faced the Bills again in the first round of the AFC playoffs. Aided by Moon's 222 passing yards and 4 touchdowns in the first half, Houston built up a 28–3 halftime lead, and then increased it to 35–3 when Buffalo quarterback Frank Reich's first pass of the third quarter was intercepted and returned for a touchdown. But the Bills managed to storm back with 5 unanswered second half touchdowns to take a 38–35 lead with time running out in the final period. Moon managed to lead the Oilers on a last second field goal drive to send the game into overtime, but threw an interception in the extra period that set-up Buffalo kicker Steve Christie's game winning field goal. It was the largest comeback victory in NFL history and is now known in NFL Lore simply as The Comeback. Moon finished the game with 36 completions for 371 yards and 4 touchdowns, with 2 interceptions. His 36 completions remain an NFL postseason record.

1993 was the Houston Oilers' best season with Warren Moon under center — and it would also be his last season with the team. The Oilers went 12–4 and won the AFC Central division crown, but lost to Joe Montana and the Kansas City Chiefs 28–20 in the divisional round of the playoffs.

As a Houston Oiler, Moon set a franchise record for wins with 70, which stood until Steve McNair broke it in 2004, long after the team had become the Tennessee Titans.

He was traded to the Minnesota Vikings after the season, where he passed for over 4,200 yards in each of his first two seasons, but missed half of the 1996 season with a broken collarbone. The Vikings' starting quarterback job was given to Brad Johnson and Moon was released after he refused to take a $3.8 million pay cut to serve as Johnson's backup.[14] Moon then signed with the Seattle Seahawks as a free agent. On September 14, 1997, Moon became the first player over 40 years old in NFL history to score a touchdown. After a two year stint in the Pacific northwest, an aging Moon signed as a free agent with the Kansas City Chiefs as a backup in 1999.[15] He played in only three games in 2 years with the Chiefs before announcing his retirement in January 2001.

Combining his NFL and CFL stats, Moon's numbers are nearly unmatched in professional football annals: 5,357 completions in 9,205 attempts for 70,553 yards and 435 touchdowns. Even if his Canadian League statistics are discounted, Warren Moon's career is still exceptional: 3,988 completions for 49,325 yards, 291 touchdown passes, 1,736 yards rushing, and 22 rushing touchdowns. Warren Moon also held individual NFL lifetime records for most fumbles recovered 56 and most fumbles made 162, but this was surpassed by Brett Favre in 2010.[16] Moon was in the top 5 all-time when he retired for passing yards, passing touchdowns, pass attempts, and pass completions.[17]

During his NFL career, Warren Moon was named to nine Pro Bowl games (1988–1995, 1997). Moon currently works as a broadcaster for the Seattle Seahawks on both TV and radio. On the radio, he is co play-by-play announcer with former Seattle Seahawks receiver Steve Raible, who is the lead play-by-play announcer and evening anchor/sports anchor for KIRO-TV in Seattle. He was elected into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 2006, becoming both the first Canadian Football Hall of Famer, first undrafted quarterback and the first African-American quarterback to be so honored. Moon was elected in his first year of eligibility. The Tennessee Titans retired his number at halftime on October 1 vs the Dallas Cowboys. Moon also holds the little known record for being the oldest player to throw a touchdown pass in overtime (38 years, 359 days)."""

That's the problem with talking to children , dumbasses will tell ya the Holocaust never happened and racism was but a figment of your imagination to the people who lived it know it breathed it and lived to retell it to the fuckhead nonbelievers who were never effected by it.

So..because we think Cam Newton will be a bad pick for the browns..and has not been subjected to racism by scouts and writers, that we are in line with David Duke and German-American bund?

just making that clear.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

That's the problem with talking to children , dumbasses will tell ya the Holocaust never happened and racism was but a figment of your imagination to the people who lived it know it breathed it and lived to retell it to the fuckhead nonbelievers who were never effected by it.

SoulDawg

C'mon dude. Lighten up. "Moon was blackballed" is funny.

And, did you even read my last post? I know you like to make all sorts of assumptions and everything, but I never once suggested that Moon didn't endure racism. I wasn't there and have no reason to doubt that.

But, before you give me 4 FUs and call me a nonbeliever who thinks racism is a figment of someones imagination at least read what I had to say.

I'm still waiting for you to supply a single shred of evidence that Narwoki's analysis of Cam Newton is racially motivate. One single shred. And Warren Moon's wikipedia page doesn't count as evidence.

Triple-S wrote:uhhh...SD...uhh..in the 1978 draft, Doug Williams went No. 17 overall to the Bucs (led them to an NFC title game as well)...

[unnecessary image]

If there was such racism in the NFL, why was he drafted?

That's a really smart argument.

Because, you know, when you can find a few examples of people who weren't affected by a certain kind of racism, it must mean that kind of racism didn't exist.

Officer Cincinnati: "Racist? Me? Why, just this week alone, I must have let darn near three black people drive by without pulling them over!"

Would anyone who's denying the role racism might have played in Moon's career like to offer an alternate explanation for the path he was forced to take? Measurables? No. Production? No. So what, then?

As a point of reference, Moon came out of Washington after the 1977 season; Montana out of Notre Dame after 1978. Moon was bigger, with a better arm, with better numbers in his last college season (across the board too; better completion %, better YPA, more TDs in less throws, same number of INT). Montana goes in the 3rd round. He goes undrafted?

Triple-S wrote:uhhh...SD...uhh..in the 1978 draft, Doug Williams went No. 17 overall to the Bucs (led them to an NFC title game as well)...

[unnecessary image]

If there was such racism in the NFL, why was he drafted?

That's a really smart argument.

Because, you know, when you can find a few examples of people who weren't affected by a certain kind of racism, it must mean that kind of racism didn't exist.

Officer Cincinnati: "Racist? Me? Why, just this week alone, I must have let darn near three black people drive by without pulling them over!"

Would anyone who's denying the role racism might have played in Moon's career like to offer an alternate explanation for the path he was forced to take? Measurables? No. Production? No. So what, then?

As a point of reference, Moon came out of Washington after the 1977 season; Montana out of Notre Dame after 1978. Moon was bigger, with a better arm, with better numbers in his last college season (across the board too; better completion %, better YPA, more TDs in less throws, same number of INT). Montana goes in the 3rd round. He goes undrafted?

SD:

John McKay forever changed everything .

When he took Sam Bam Cunningham to Alabama and Sam put about 5 TD's on their asses by himself there were chants coming from that previous all White SEC stronghold before the game ended of

Get us one .

Telling Paul Bear Bryant who had wanted to integrate the football team it was finally all right .

Ozzie Newsome came as a result of that game .

When Doug Williams was drafted by Mckay who was a pioneer everything changed .

Mckay was an icon for change , just like Hank Stram before him who broke the then unwritten rule and quota system of not having more black players than white and starting the first black Middle linebacker .

The NFL was ahead of society , but change was slow where every decade brought new progress.

Things aren't like they were when Moon came along , but lets not pretend he was on acid for feeling like he did then for what went on either .

e0y2e3 wrote:Also the best part of the terrible Williams argument is that he had to leave the NFL because the Bucs refused to pay him more than back-up money.

SD:

One year in time can move society as much as ten years or a hundred years in the past .

Think back to 1939 before Hitler invaded Poland and how different the World was in 1940 with England forced off the continent of Europe because they didn't stand firm against him in 1938.

Doug Williams got drafted first in 1978 because a man of vision and conviction named John McKay chose him because he was the best ball player regardless of his color just like he had been doing forever at USC totally ignoring the good ole boy system and isolating himself in the process.

One man made that change a year after Warren Moon was forced to Canada because no such man of change had the guts or was in the position to buck the system and do the same in the NFL in 1977.

Lots of short memories on Moon, or no memories at all due to not being of age, but one big fact in his destiny was that scouts and decision makers in the NFL felt Moon was better served as an athlete and not a QB. It was desired he play another position, he wanted nothing to do with it, so nobody in the NFL took their chances on him, hence the CFL (which shouldn't be surprising considering logistics of Moon's early adult life in Washington).

Williams is a completely different story.

Was race a part of their lives and career paths and success, at some point most certainly it was, but to what degree, well that is almost impossible to know. Either way there were more than enough NFL people that supported the consensus reports on both players to make the race card a silly point in arguing their success rate or tenures as QBs in the NFL.

A big point in this perpetual debate of the black QBs (birth in the NFL) is simply the lack of numbers in the college ranks back in the day to add to the pool of available NFL talent. Even today there are certain programs and even conferences who have not scratched the surface in recruiting or the use of a black athlete at the QB position. Dozens of possible reasons why.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

e0y2e3 wrote:Also the best part of the terrible Williams argument is that he had to leave the NFL because the Bucs refused to pay him more than back-up money.

SD:

One year in time can move society as much as ten years or a hundred years in the past .

Think back to 1939 before Hitler invaded Poland and how different the World was in 1940 with England forced off the continent of Europe because they didn't stand firm against him in 1938.

Doug Williams got drafted first in 1978 because a man of vision and conviction named John McKay chose him because he was the best ball player regardless of his color just like he had been doing forever at USC totally ignoring the good ole boy system and isolating himself in the process.

One man made that change a year after Warren Moon was forced to Canada because no such man of change had the guts or was in the position to buck the system and do the same in the NFL in 1977.

SoulDawg

That still doesn't change the fact that Tampa ownership refused to pay Williams anything and forced him to the NFL.

Yeah McKay had vision and that vision still fell short of keeping a black QB paid and playing in the NFL.

Well keeping a black QB paid and playing isn't really any one owner's responsibility now is it? I'm fairly certain that wasn't your point, just sayin. However the genius McKay was either a really dumb genius or didn't have legit scouts on his staff anymore or simply didn't trust them and over rode their opinions.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

That's the problem with talking to children , dumbasses will tell ya the Holocaust never happened and racism was but a figment of your imagination to the people who lived it know it breathed it and lived to retell it to the fuckhead nonbelievers who were never effected by it.

SoulDawg

C'mon dude. Lighten up. "Moon was blackballed" is funny.

And, did you even read my last post? I know you like to make all sorts of assumptions and everything, but I never once suggested that Moon didn't endure racism. I wasn't there and have no reason to doubt that.

But, before you give me 4 FUs and call me a nonbeliever who thinks racism is a figment of someones imagination at least read what I had to say.

I'm still waiting for you to supply a single shred of evidence that Narwoki's analysis of Cam Newton is racially motivate. One single shred. And Warren Moon's wikipedia page doesn't count as evidence.

Told ya before I don't joke about boiler point issues, watched too many guys get converted from QB in lieu of guys who couldn't carry their jockstraps .

Including a local kid here in Ygst Sherman Smith drafted by the Seattle Seahawks to play RB at 6'4" 225 lbs with 4.5 speed ,when he could throw the pill and did nothing but win damn near every game he ever played as a QB , He was Tebow Vince Young and Bobby Douglas before any of them .

He went 31 -1-1 for the Redhawks but had the misfortune to graduate in 1976 and had to convert or go to Canada the path Warren Moon took in 1977 .

Knew him and his family personally and we're talking John Wayne type old school principles of toughness and family virtues here, both mentally and physically.

You think you can find an education in books where everything is spelled out for ya neat and tidy so you can google it , and if wiki doesn't cover all the bases or that info ain't readily at hand then it just didn't happen.

Must be nice to grow up with the luxury of being so fuckin dumb err i mean naive.

On Narwoki he invoked the buzz words which set Moon off , particularly questioning his leadership skills when there is no fucking way a guy can win two back to back titles on two different teams in consecutive years without leadership or having influence in the lockeroom.

He asked how can a guy talk about somebodies smile or define their personality or sincerityor their eyes after never having met them , he said it was similar to the false reports cast about him that he was too short to this too that by reporters who had never met him and all though he would like to think we are passed those foul days , he couldn't help but feel in his gut the criticism had crossed the line .

So you take that and spin it anyway you like .

Then you tell me with a straight face if you don't think Cam Newton has gotten more than his fair share of scrutiny or if none of it has crossed the line .

Well I'm reading the same wiki page everyone else is so that is all on me.

Personally I do not subscribe into the systematic bias against Williams, but can easily understand the arguments that the individual(s) in Tampa may in fact have held such a bias against him, or in the least were heavily influenced by a possible PR bias/backlash.

ETA: BTW that's coach and owner, McKay was the coach.

Last edited by FUDU on Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

Triple-S wrote:So..because we think Cam Newton will be a bad pick for the browns..and has not been subjected to racism by scouts and writers, that we are in line with David Duke and German-American bund?

just making that clear.

SD:

Are you confessing , being deliberately obtuse or are you just naturally stoopid.

FUDU wrote:Well I'm reading the same wiki page everyone else is so that is all on me.

Personally I do not subscribe into the systematic bias against Williams, but can easily understand the arguments that the individual(s) in Tampa may in fact have held such a bias against him, or in the least were heavily influenced by a possible PR bias/backlash.

ETA: BTW that's coach and owner, McKay was the coach.

SD:

It was McKays call , and a gutsy move all the way having a southern team break a major barrier.

He made it clear when he took over that team he would run it his way and had the guts to follow thru on his beleifs .

Thru the decades there was allways one man or a group of men who stood out from the rest and e was one of them.

Sadly these last ten years no man can lay claim to such distinction over and above all others in any field of endeavor .