Capleton cancelled in Humboldt

Red Fox Tavern :
"We have to make choices that will impact the future of our club and we are going to upset somebody, no matter what. We mean no disrespect to you or anyone. The fact is when others cancel dates over one incident, we have to do what will keep us in business. And yes, some think we are profiting on hate. We all know that this is not true! We are members of the community and have to pick and choose our battles. We love this place and we are in business for the sake of music. We apologize to the people supporting the show, the people who feel disrespected, the ones who will lose money, i.e the DJs, and the purveyors, distributors and ones providing backline and equiptment. There was never any intention of upsetting anyone, but clearly, it has upset everyone. We will move on and hope that we will bring shows that you continue to like seeing, as we do have the nicest sound, hospitality, and we throw a damn good party. There are many artists, managers, and fans who definitely know this to be fact."

in all seriousness this is because he isn't a US citizen. In Hip Hop people say all kinds of crazy stuff. Shows VERY rarely get boycotted or run out of town. If he wants to play shows out west it is going to have to be under the ground level. People have zero tolerance for what they consider to be "hate speech". I will not swear to it but if pressed I could probably find the quote "string them up and hang them up alive". Why not focus on farming? Food being the staff of life? I don't know. I will say this. Pride is a sin for a reason.

I just don't get this idea of bullying people into cancelling shows because you disagree with what they say. Ras Midas offended me on stage at sierra a few years ago, but I have no desire to bully venues into cancelling his performances, I just simply won't go see them myself. Hell, i find artists like Tommy Lee and Vybz Kartel offensive and against pretty much everything I stand for, but same thing - I just simply don't go see them. If other people want to that's their business.. I can understand why homosexuals are offended by certain artists, but all of this just seems like the same thing over and over again every year or so.

If he has the freedom of speech (technically speaking he is not a US citizen so he is not protected by the Bill of Rights) to sing about hanging gay people alive, James, the gay community and their supporters have a right to boycott his shows. Find another venue or stop singing hate songs, but don't play the censorship card unless it's the government that's censoring.

Quotetechnically speaking he is not a US citizen so he is not protected by the Bill of Rights

You are correct that the First Amendment only applies to government action, but it applies to all 'PEOPLE' regardless of their citizenship.....

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Historically speaking, the Bill of Rights was created to protect the rights of citizens of this country, true? According to the 14th Amendment, a citizen is anyone born in this country, so the Bill of Rights applies to citizens as defined by the 14th Amendment.

QuoteJ_72
If he has the freedom of speech (technically speaking he is not a US citizen so he is not protected by the Bill of Rights) to sing about hanging gay people alive, James, the gay community and their supporters have a right to boycott his shows. Find another venue or stop singing hate songs, but don't play the censorship card unless it's the government that's censoring.

I'm not calling it censorship as it's not the government, and I'm not saying they don't have the right to... It just seems to me like their time could be spent on better things. That's all

As mentioned, I can understand why people are offended. I just think people are making things a bigger issue than they really are. although I'm not a gambler, I would otherwise bet that Capleton wouldn't do any of those kind of lyrics in nor-cal anyway knowing what his target audience there wants

QuoteHistorically speaking, the Bill of Rights was created to protect the rights of citizens of this country, true?

Quote"The People" would be "We the People of the United States of America" I.e. citizens.

Well, I'm no 'historian' but I do know that neither blacks nor women nor white men who didn't own land were considered 'citizens' initially. But, today the Bill or Rights (and the constitution) applies to all 'people' (whether citizens or not) unless the constitution specifically refers to citizens (mostly related to elections and qualifications to serve in office).

For instance, the 4th Amendment protects the "right of the people" from "unreasonable searches and seizures." That applies to citizens and non-citizens as well..

I play Capleton and I would like to catch a live show, but if he is going to promote hate and violence when he puts up a facade of love and peace, these are the results of such action. I have no problem with the end result being that if you preach hate and violence, don't bother rolling thru NorCal.

Free speech? Like we care if it's legal or not. Hypocrisy is the issue. One can't really come from a place of love if one holds hate deep inside. Just sayin.

The way I see it, the Constitution, in the beginning of the preamble, makes it clear who "the people" are, and the 14th Amendment defines what a citizen is. As a lawyer, I am sure you would know more about it than me and how it is defined and interpreted in a court of law, so I will leave it there.

If anyone made a tune about hanging up black people the least of their worries would be having their show cancelled. the shame in this is that Capleton has so many good tunes. Capleton was the first to get me into "culture" music. Tunes like Don't Dis the Trinity, Babylon Use Dem Brain, Raggy Road etc. to make tunes about killing people really when those people have done NOTHING to you to me is the sign of something bubbling on the inside. what I find crazy is this. Capleton is a sinner in the eyes of the lord. He is no different then any other sinner including if a person is a gay or straight. To miss this most important part of the teachings of the Master to me seems as intentional as it is foolish. What is the most important commandment? Love. I hear NUFF Rasta run their mouths about JUDGEMENT. Rasta does not hold the power of judgement, this power belongs to the King Himself. For common sinners who are in the eyes of the Lord "not good" to talk about judgement on others the punishment will be severe. I am just one guy, but do not use the teachings of the One G-d and his Prophet to run people down. This is what the Republicans are for.

The northcoast has been run by fagged out old hippies since they settled there in late 70's. Old news. They used to have huge orgies and screw everyones wife or husband. Now they're just too old fat and ugly. They reallly have no leg to stand on but they will tell you what you have to believe.

QuoteMawwwd Ninja
If anyone made a tune about hanging up black people the least of their worries would be having their show cancelled. the shame in this is that Capleton has so many good tunes. Capleton was the first to get me into "culture" music. Tunes like Don't Dis the Trinity, Babylon Use Dem Brain, Raggy Road etc. to make tunes about killing people really when those people have done NOTHING to you to me is the sign of something bubbling on the inside. what I find crazy is this. Capleton is a sinner in the eyes of the lord. He is no different then any other sinner including if a person is a gay or straight. To miss this most important part of the teachings of the Master to me seems as intentional as it is foolish. What is the most important commandment? Love. I hear NUFF Rasta run their mouths about JUDGEMENT. Rasta does not hold the power of judgement, this power belongs to the King Himself. For common sinners who are in the eyes of the Lord "not good" to talk about judgement on others the punishment will be severe. I am just one guy, but do not use the teachings of the One G-d and his Prophet to run people down. This is what the Republicans are for.

QuoteJ_72
If he has the freedom of speech (technically speaking he is not a US citizen so he is not protected by the Bill of Rights) to sing about hanging gay people alive, James, the gay community and their supporters have a right to boycott his shows. Find another venue or stop singing hate songs, but don't play the censorship card unless it's the government that's censoring.

the good thing about Capleton and everyone who posts in here...we are still living humans. the book on us is not sealed. This is true of all mankind. Bless up. If Capleton does happen in PDX I will be there to pay my Raspect to him as a Hall of Fame artist and as a man who has taught me to stand firm in what I know to be. Bless Up Reggae world more LOVE and UNITY

I just want to see a good stage show, which Capleton back by his band will be, please keep us up to date on the Bay Area shows. Everyone will be judged in the end, in the meantime can we have some fun.

Quotenorcaljahman
I just want to see a good stage show, which Capleton back by his band will be, please keep us up to date on the Bay Area shows. Everyone will be judged in the end, in the meantime can we have some fun.

We can have some fun when every citizen of this country has equal rights and not have people singing about hanging them from trees while still alive. Waiting for judgement day will not solve the immediate problem. Dance away though, and forget about it....

After you get over the disappointment of not seeing a performance that you wanted to see, you have to be impressed with the organization of those that ended the performance. They limit their fights to where they can succeed, mostly because there is not enough money involved. Had this been hip hop, well the show would have gone on. Why does this group not go after hate speech in hip hop? Who likes to lose.

Curious, does hip hop sing about hanging gay people alive (Hang Dem) or shooting them in the head with a gun (Boom Bye Bye)? If they do, the lyrics would certainly fuel the gay community against those artists as well.

well from what i hear i guess its more disrespecting your woman and killing cops, but honestly i wouldn't know, i was using it as an example. There is certainly enough bad talk in other genre's , but i am in no way condoning any of it. It's the money the venue gets i think that makes the difference. If they are making enough that a couple other events cancelling doesn't kill them it's easier to be courageous. If it means you're out of biz you're between a rock and bad place, but he who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day.....

Quotenahikuroots
I heard Johnny Cash shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die.

The obvious difference being one is a folk song about a guy who went to Folsom prison and the other condoning the killing of gay people for religious reasons. The amount of justification and denial amongst reggae fans is incredible.

I pick like a flea about this, because reggae is a music I deeply love and care about, as anybody that knows me or has known me for a long time can attest. I do not want to see this music given a bad name by religious zealots, and I do not want to see fans act like sheep with blind love for the music. Promoting the killing gay people is wrong, period. I will leave it at that, sorry to bug ya.

QuoteJ_72
I pick like a flea about this, because reggae is a music I deeply love and care about, as anybody that knows me or has known me for a long time can attest. I do not want to see this music given a bad name by religious zealots, and I do not want to see fans act like sheep with blind love for the music. Promoting the killing gay people is wrong, period. I will leave it at that, sorry to bug ya.

real talk J....truth and rights is truth and rights. Hypocrisy can give a terrible name to something richteous.... Is it the sixth commandment that states Thou shall not kill? Who in the world is any religious leader or zealot to go above Gods word.....

I had an ineresting conversation on the subject recently which led me to ask myself when was the last time the bay area was considered a destination for sexual slavery... There is a lot of behavior that is lumped together in the "hate speech" spewed by angry Jamaicans... A grip of which they have a right to be angry with.... While it is wrong to lump all of any group together, it is understandable that there can exist a righteous anger at those who would exploit the youth for neferious purposes and an acceptance of adults choosing to love who they will... Though the two may get lumped together in verse, let's not pretend what happens here in the bay is what happens down in JA. Folks get desperate and are willing to go farther down the road than we can see... Some things that happen down that road offend even we. Speaking out against that offense is a human right. The LGBT, mine, yours AND Capleton's.

To be clear I don't condone hate speech. But I am aware of real world mechanics. In my opinion a suppressed man can be a dangerous man. You can't force someone to change their beliefs or feelings no matter how strong yours are. At most you would succeed in bottling hate for the future. It doesn't seem likely that being boycotted will give any of these artists a moment of clarity leading to a change in belief or behavior. In my experience Jamaica and Jamaicans have a long history of "adapting to the moment" (hypocrisy?) Globalization has now exposed them for their "hating at home, loving abroad" but they still believe what they believe and more than likely see these pressures as some sort of "divine test".
On a side note I feel that if you asked any Capleton fan in the states what their favorite songs were, they would rattle of a list of his "conscious" tunes. Ask those same fans what the name of his "hate" tunes are or to recite some of those lyrics and they would be clueless. A true boycott wouldn't help to advertise the thing it found distasteful. We pick and choose as humans, Contradictions happen. If we choose to only take the positive then Capleton is the hypocrite for preaching love & hate, not us. I'm sure many of us have to bear the burden of knowing all the lyrics to Michael Jackson's "Off The Wall" album while wondering if he really is a child molester. Of course this just makes me think what kind of insanely funky music would the Westboro Baptist church have to play for me to turn a blind eye to their idiocy. I also have a fantasy where all DJ's rally and boycott dancehall in defense of all the "murdered soundbwoys" The point is nobody needs to listen to my opinions, I certainly don't need a flying spaghetti monster in the sky to tell me to be a good person.

Seems "hate" is the wrong word of choice. Righteous indignation speaks more true to the intent of Rastafarian lyrics regarding this matter. I also don't think there are too many that would argue that we all fall short, but even the much less referenced Bible scripture (among Reggae circles) says "The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments" (1 Corinthians 2:15). Seems that those calling out the act are being judged for their views on an act that is against their belief.

It's equal rights to we the people. The us citizens are federal property and don't have all your god given rights. Y do these venues even start? What Is the word on mendo county show? ....tell me in code , gays r listening

Free speech, unless I disagree with what you have to say?
Yes, hypocrisy on both sides for real....

_________________
We cannot seek achievement for ourselves and forget about progress and prosperity for our community. Our ambitions must be broad enough to include the aspirations and needs of others, for their sakes and for our own.
Cesar Chavez

Raspectfully,
The text of I message stands without the need of Iran's Prez. to prove the point.
I included the youtube, as it is relevant in time and content. Still, balking at that video illustrates bias.

Nuff people would consider the Bobo Ashanti as a group of religious nutcases. Regarding the "anti-Semite" stance, its definitely more appropriate that he is an established anti "Zionist" and these are definitely not one in the same.

On the issue of the acceptance of homosexuality with reference to that video, there definitely exists a strong modern cultural signature, which is why it is accepted in modern day Israel, and South Africa. Where in the Hebrew tradition was this an accepted practice? Where else on the continent of Africa, except for the most colonized and white dominated modern South Africa, is this practice accepted?

Regardless of the Iranian president's kindheartedness, or lack thereof, there is often a very logical and true point being made. Why do we ignore that, simply because of the "power struggle" between nations? It always trips me out, the juvenile behavior that is displayed at the U.N., when the U.S. and Israel (fingers in ears, "I don't hear you ,I don hear you) either doesn't show up or walk out when Ahmadinejad talks.

Regardless, Rastas, Ahmadinejad and others share the same view, rooted by the same scriptural justifications, on the issue. Its the sovereign right of Iran to deal with that how they see fit, which historically is not unlike the ancient Hebrew way. Regarding Capleton, we all know, as is said, the fya is for the purification, and words are often spoken metaphorically, not literally. This has been addressed on the hip-hop versus reggae aspects of the thread.

QuoteJah Mike
Iran President Ahmadinejad is also a religious nutcase, a ruthless dictator, and an anti-semite. You really should be a little more selective of who you quote in order to prove your point.

bigot - One who is narrrowly or intolerantly devoted to his or her opinions and prejudices. This word is a general term that applies to everyone (racists, anti-Semites, misogynists, homophobes and xenophobes).

hyp•o•crite /ˈhɪpəkrɪt/ Show Spelled[hip-uh-krit] Show IPA
noun
1. a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, especially a person whose actions belie stated beliefs

dou·ble stand·ard
Noun
A rule or principle that is unfairly applied in different ways to different people or groups.

_________________
We cannot seek achievement for ourselves and forget about progress and prosperity for our community. Our ambitions must be broad enough to include the aspirations and needs of others, for their sakes and for our own.
Cesar Chavez

_________________
We cannot seek achievement for ourselves and forget about progress and prosperity for our community. Our ambitions must be broad enough to include the aspirations and needs of others, for their sakes and for our own.
Cesar Chavez

I know that there are people who are bigots, and I am bigoted against them...

btw Daniel - all the posts you have had to delete today are the result of one moronic post and my (over) reaction to it. When bigoted and discriminatory posts appear, that should be everyones reaction.

Glad i missed the negativity! Lets dwell on something positive! Anyone excited to see Capleton?? whats your favorite Capleton song??? I am just bummed that i cannot catch him on this tour but I do get to see Dawn Penn down in the bay! How awesome will that show be!!!

For real.. i like capletons music and energy .. doesnt mean i like hanging gays.. homosexuality is against the religion.. alot of the music expresses this.. even batchs new album has a lyric talking about the anti-christ sexuality or something like that.. hmmm whats he talking about... grow up and respect the views of others..

Strikkly, not trying to save the world, just speaking out on something I feel strongly about with a music I love. And do something real? Well, I teach, guide and mentor 120 students a day, five days a week, And I do the same for my children. You can also catch my wife and I supporting equal rights by attending the parades when they happen, signing petitions and sharing information. Equal rights means just that- equal rights.

Iriebarto, if you can show me anywhere in Jesus' teachings where he talks about killing gay folks, or even mentioning homosexuality, please share. Not Paul's teachings, Jesus. last I read his teaching talked about Love of God and Love of Neighbor. I don't think speaking out against hate speech is immature, so I don't need to grow up, and respecting the views of others doesn't seem to be that high of a priority for these reggae singers, and I refuse to respect any views that want to hang people alive or shoot them in the head with a gun.

Quoteyou dont have to respect the views, but to terrorize the venue is not the right answer either. boycott all you want, but let the man do his craft for those that wish to watch.

What venue has been 'terrorized' on account of this issue? I'm not talking about the guy who pepper sprayed Rocket-Room (which I vehemently oppose). So far as I am aware, the only 'threats' that were made against the venue was to advise the club owner of the economic ramifications (eg. boycotting future events by those who feel having Capleton perform is not right) he/she would face if they allowed the show to go on. That's not terrorism any more then when San Francisco State Alumnus said they would no longer contribute to the school so long as they continued to allow the ROTC to operate a recruitment program on campus.

The KKK also has the right to 'do it's (witch)craft'. If Ashkenaz decided to allow a "KKK night" at it's venue, I would be the first in line to tell them I would not patronize their establishment if they allowed the event to go forward, and would encourage others to do likewise. But Ashkenaz has the right to have a KKK night if they desire. So too, I have the right to boycott them for future events if they decided to do that.

The KKK also has the right to 'do it's (witch)craft'. If Ashkenaz decided to allow a "KKK night" at it's venue, I would be the first in line to tell them I would not patronize their establishment if they allowed the event to go forward, and would encourage others to do likewise. But Ashkenaz has the right to have a KKK night if they desire. So too, I have the right to boycott them for future events if they decided to do that.

Are you saying it's okay for 'members of the public' to urge that the KKK not be allowed to speak at a particular venue but it's not okay for 'members of the public' to urge that Capleton not be allowed to speak at a particular venue.....?

Quote But Ashkenaz has the right to have a KKK night if they desire. So too, I have the right to boycott them for future events if they decided to do that.

They also have the right to cancel an event after finding out that the event has KKK overtones or ramifications.

Honestly, I can't find fault with any of the things that have taken place (about the show... missed the inapproprite commentary), here's the list as I see it, feel free to straighten me out....

1. Capelton has the RIGHT to sing about whatever he wishes.......................... Yep.
2. The Venue has the RIGHT to book or cancel whatever shows they want...... Yep.
3. Anyone offended has the RIGHT to boycott whatever they find offensive........ Yep.
4. We ALL of the RIGHT to our beliefs.. Capleton, me, you, LGBT folks AND the KKK.... Yep.

QuoteJ_72
Strikkly, not trying to save the world, just speaking out on something I feel strongly about with a music I love. And do something real? Well, I teach, guide and mentor 120 students a day, five days a week, And I do the same for my children. You can also catch my wife and I supporting equal rights by attending the parades when they happen, signing petitions and sharing information. Equal rights means just that- equal rights.

Jeff. Everyone here knows you are stand up guy, just the fact that you livicate your life to teaching tells volumes even if we have only meet briefly. Dont worry about the troll.

1. Capelton has the RIGHT to sing about whatever he wishes.......................... Yep.
2. The Venue has the RIGHT to book or cancel whatever shows they want...... Yep.
3. Anyone offended has the RIGHT to boycott whatever they find offensive........ Yep.
4. We ALL of the RIGHT to our beliefs.. Capleton, me, you, LGBT folks AND the KKK.... Yep.

Anyone, or anything, that teaches that any other human is of any lesser consequence, better or worse, than any other, is bigotry, and false. In the cases where religions preach this, they are wrong. Simple as that.

Difference between kkk and capleton is one side is uneducated ignorance and the other side is religious belief.. i can accept that... i cant accept a group based on hatred of skin color.. raspect all the same

Well how about that reggae?? I am curious is there anyone here who will not go and support Capleton over this?? J 72 you seem really strong about how wrong his message is and i am not saying i disagree with you because i dont, there is no place in reggae for songs like that in my humble opinon, but is it shallow of me that i still want to see him and have a good time because i love reggae music. ?????

EXACTLY!!! That's just it! Accepting that a one has a right to his beliefs is NOT the same as accepting those beliefs as your own. Truly Irebarto I think you and I are on the same page saying the same thing.

And as far as the whole hypocrisy in lyrics debate goes... Ive done a fair amount of thinking about it. Clearly we (us here on the board) struggle with some of the lyrics in reggae, a music we deeply love. I pose that this is the normal condition of all things we love. I have been blessed to love many many people, causes and beliefs in my life, but I have NEVER agreed with 100% of things that come out of thier mouths...

I mean really, I LOVE my teenage daughter, but honestly she has some extremely stupid @#$%& to say. Does this mean I love her less? Or that I have to somehow defend that love of her? NO! It's no different with our (collective) love of reggae, enjoyment and love of something is not the same as blindly following every syllable that drops in patois to a fat beat. And to answer your question rosssta, I for one will be fulljoying seeing Capleton live, it's a rare treat and a damn good show, if he starts on with the bashing (which I doubt) I'll go outside and medicate... err, mediTATE!

This by the way is the most viewed video I have ever posted... Don't know why.

1. Capelton has the RIGHT to sing about whatever he wishes.......................... Yep.
2. The Venue has the RIGHT to book or cancel whatever shows they want...... Yep.
3. Anyone offended has the RIGHT to boycott whatever they find offensive........ Yep.
4. We ALL of the RIGHT to our beliefs.. Capleton, me, you, LGBT folks AND the KKK.... Yep.

Quoterossta8888
Well how about that reggae?? I am curious is there anyone here who will not go and support Capleton over this?? J 72 you seem really strong about how wrong his message is and i am not saying i disagree with you because i dont, there is no place in reggae for songs like that in my humble opinon, but is it shallow of me that i still want to see him and have a good time because i love reggae music. ?????

You do what you need in life. I do not support music that is contrary to my beliefs, never have never will. I am not that addicted to music that I would sacrifice my principles to give money to an artist who sings about religiously bigoted violence against people, but that's just me- Capleton has a right to sing what he wants, and I have a right to not give my money to him and the gay community has a right to boycott his shows.

QuoteJ_72
Strikkly, not trying to save the world, just speaking out on something I feel strongly about with a music I love. And do something real? Well, I teach, guide and mentor 120 students a day, five days a week, And I do the same for my children. You can also catch my wife and I supporting equal rights by attending the parades when they happen, signing petitions and sharing information. Equal rights means just that- equal rights.

Jeff. Everyone here knows you are stand up guy, just the fact that you livicate your life to teaching tells volumes even if we have only meet briefly. Dont worry about the troll.

Quoteiriebarto
You must have a huge list of reggae artist you dont support.. why not try kidz bop

A huge list of reggae artists sing lyrics about religiously bigoted violence against people? Not the reggae I listen to. I also listen to other genres of music, so I am well satisfied with the variety of choices I have. Sometimes the music of birds and nature, or just silence is good listening too.

What irks me most, is that ppl think they have the right to choose what they like about another culture and reject what they don't like. Very arrogant....

_________________
We cannot seek achievement for ourselves and forget about progress and prosperity for our community. Our ambitions must be broad enough to include the aspirations and needs of others, for their sakes and for our own.
Cesar Chavez

QuoteWhat irks me most, is that ppl think they have the right to choose what they like about another culture and reject what they don't like. Very arrogant....

Why you would be disturbed by what other people like is beyond me ORSJ. As for me, that's exactly what I do ~ gravitate towards the things that move me and stay away from those things that I don't. To me, it's far more enriching to expose myself to all the world's cutures than to live in the pale environs that are my immediate surrounds......

'What irks me most, is that ppl think they have the right to choose what they like about another culture and reject what they don't like. Very arrogant....'

Y'mean like someone could like American art, but they have to accept our insane military spending, massive arms sales, addiction to guns and our death penalty too? The KKK is part of our culture too. I think you must have forgotten to hit the sarcasm button.

....you all seem to be taking my comment out of context.
Are any of you Jamaican?
I am not.
Sure there are some things I do and do not like about Reggae/Jamaican Culture.
But that is my OPINION about a Culture OTHER than my OWN!

Of course, our opinions on american culture should be critical....
We are all americans here, right?

_________________
We cannot seek achievement for ourselves and forget about progress and prosperity for our community. Our ambitions must be broad enough to include the aspirations and needs of others, for their sakes and for our own.
Cesar Chavez