As someone who has created songs that have been catching the ears of industry professionals, been pitched to tv shows, and have been liked by major record labels. I strongly believe you should hire a producer. As an Artist, you want to focus on writing great songs, booking shows, and getting your music heard. Hire a producer to get all the technical work done. Trust me, it will save you tons of time and your tracks will be a thousand times better than if you did them yourself. If you like that sort of thing you can totally learn how and master it, but.... with my experience most artists hate trying to do that sort of thing and would be better off hiring a producer.

(02-12-2017, 01:27 AM)ronws Wrote: And how much does a producer cost? Percentage, retainer, flat fee, what?

Between 50 to 100 on average for a good producer where I live. A song typically takes 7 hours to make but that same song could take you 2 weeks with only half the results. It's pricey but definitely worth it if you actually want a career in as an artist.

I can't really speak to this topic too much aside from my own observations. But what I see most commonly, on YouTube at least, are artists who do just record themselves in their bedroom for the most part. They build up a following, gain traction, make a little bit more money. Then maybe they put out some studio produced stuff. But for the most part like...

Here's a track with 1.6 million views after about 3 weeks I think. There's probably a decent quality mic off-screen with a moderate amount of post-production but nothing that the average person couldn't figure out how to do.

So I don't know. I know there are a lot of paths forward and if the studio route is working for you that's cool =p. But I also think that being able to just do something good enough with what you have is an invaluable skill =p.

And my point is not to say that you should not hire a producer. Most definitely hire a producer, when you can. But from whatever budget you have to start, the most important person you are going to hire and the first person you are going to hire or make a part of your team is an attorney specialized in the music business. Yes, without a producer, it can take longer to get your music to finished form. But you can get it finished. And you need to protect your work, they are your assets. You need to treat your song material as if it were gold because it is gold. The gold that will get you paid, otherwise, you need to keep your job gathering carts at Walmart.

And so your money is best spent on a good lawyer. As for a producer, if you are wanting to hire one, you need to see his "report card." Anyone can call himself a producer based on his own musical tastes. But a successful producer will have a list of albums and talents he was worked with. And if he is any good, he will not be cheap. As I have mentioned in the misc chat area in my thread on the music biz, everyone needs to eat and keep a roof over the head. In America, if you are over the age of 18, you are a legal adult and are responsible for yourself. Even if you live with your parents, you should be contributing to the upkeep of where you live. Helping with groceries, utilities, or at least paying your own car insurance. Or, if you can, at least pay for your music stuff out of your own money, whatever you can to be less of a burden to your parents. It's the way of the wild. Offspring leave their parents and go off into the world.

Once you start making money and can spend more time doing music full-time, you should then either have the money or points in a label deal to pay a producer. If a label is not paying for a producer, you will.

But not everyone who has talent has the money to start. Someone, somewhere, has to spend money earned at working a job. Take the word "free" and strike it out of your vocabulary. Nothing is for free. Ever. Someone had to work at something to get money to pay for something. We have freedoms, we do not have guarantee of success. Your parents may say that you can be anything you want, and they are right. The rest of the statement is that you can be anything you want to be, and you also have the freedom to fail or not achieve success. Just like, freedom of speech is also freedom to appear as an imbecile, in some cases.

(02-12-2017, 09:38 AM)YouCanSingAnything Wrote: Damn man that's almost a grand to record a song =p.

I can't really speak to this topic too much aside from my own observations. But what I see most commonly, on YouTube at least, are artists who do just record themselves in their bedroom for the most part. They build up a following, gain traction, make a little bit more money. Then maybe they put out some studio produced stuff. But for the most part like...

Here's a track with 1.6 million views after about 3 weeks I think. There's probably a decent quality mic off-screen with a moderate amount of post-production but nothing that the average person couldn't figure out how to do.

So I don't know. I know there are a lot of paths forward and if the studio route is working for you that's cool =p. But I also think that being able to just do something good enough with what you have is an invaluable skill =p.

My songs have a lot of production put into them with background vocals and and all sorts of instruments so thats why they take 7 hours. You can definitely make a good song in 3 or 4 hours. I made a cover song that turned out pretty good in only an hour or so. If you have the money it will save you tons of time but if you don't you can always go the other route.

Again, I am not against having a producer. A producer will have a separate set of ears and viewpoint as to what is a salable recording. Sometimes, the producer is accurate, other times, not so much, depending on what he is trying to do. Anyone remember the Hall and Oates cover that was pastel pink and made them look like transvestites, which only added to their already handsome and beautiful visages? That was a producer's decision, not theirs. Seriously, ask either Daryl Hall or John Oates and they hate that cover. And really, it was the music that was good. But some moron thought it would be a good business decision to glam them up to the level of Brittany Fox, for example.

That's why I think it is good to check a producer for bona fides and some kind of idea of where he is going with it, and these things are something the artist will have to understand and think about it. "Hit Me with your Best Shot" is a song written by Pat Benetar's producer at the time. She absolutely hated the song and felt it did not describe her at all. It is about a vengeful woman who feels put upon by others, whereas Pat Benetar has always been very self-directed. So, when it is on the set list, she lets the audience sing it.

Same with Quiet Riot and their one-shot recording of "Come on, Feel the Noise." No production, turn on the recorder. What you hear is the one and only take, with the exception of a few solo overdubs by guitarist Carlos Cavahlo. They hated the song and were not fans of Slade and singer Kevin Dubrow had a special dislike for Slade singer Noddy Holder. However, it was a huge hit for them and along with "Metal Health" drove that album to number one, the first heavy metal album to do so. That was the decision of a producer.

Best Shot had lots of production, Come on feel the noise had none. Sometimes, being a producer is a matter of luck and making a decision that the band may not always agree with.

So, I meant to ask, because nothing exists in a vacuum, did you have specific experience with a producer that you think was valuable or helped a recording that you were able to sell for synchro or at least an ASCAP listing to get recorded by a talent that is already in a contract with a label? Or, do you have plans to be a producer? Being a producer is cool and many is the person today who started out as a home recordist who learned something about sound and song arrangement.

I agree, having a good producer on a song can really bring about the professional sound because he or she is not tied into the song like you are. Just like a lot of pro recordings go to an independent mastering engineer who has technique, gear, and a separate set of hears.

On of my favorite quotes from a mastering engineer: a recording was sent to him by a studio and he could hear some super low synth pad, probably around the 22 Hz range, just at the point where you feel it more than hear it. And the mastering engineer says, "well, first thing, I am getting rid of anything below 35 Hz."

And he makes the recording better by getting rid of your treasured super low stuff.