I want to use it with my bulk, but isn't it a thermogenic? I know it is supposed to promote lean mass but I'd think it would hinder maximum gains.

It has thermogenic effects. That just means that it increases your body temp. This is why a lot of people report sweating more while during the workouts. Like LB said, clean bulk, The thermo effect is not the same kind thats of fat burners. Think of it an idirect way of leaning out, I have noticed Drive to be helpful with leaning out, but I have never heard any reports of losing body weight that of a fat burner for RPM. Hope that helps/ make sense. Bit hard to explain. Basically It's a thermogenic but it's not one that promotes fat lost directly. It has different properties. Hope a rep could help promote my arguement/fix it. Thanks

The RPM/Drive stack is versatile- it can be used for cutting, recomp, or bulking, depending on your goals and what you stack the products with.

1. Both Drive and RPM have thermogenic/fat burning qualities: icariin has been shown to have some thyrogenic qualities, and forskolin has been shown in human studies to elevate thyroid (which is anabolic as well) and is a potent cAMP stimulator, and both of these qualities are essential in fat loss, as thyroid elevation causes a concurrent increase in BMR, while increased cAMP at the cellular level allows for the stimulation of HSL, which in turn liberates stored triglycerides and allows them to be metabolized by the mitochondria of the cell as fuel. Cordyceps and dodder also increase cAMP and ATP, furthering this effect. Caffeine has also been shown to have the ability to liberate fatty acids from triglycerides, and chocamine also has some fat-burning qualities as well.

2. Both Drive and RPM have anabolic qualities: forskolin increases cyclic AMP, and has some effects on the AR, and is a potent trigger for endogenous testosterone production, and has been shown in recent human studies to increase lean mass. Icariin and other PDE5 inhibitors have also been shown to significantly alter the test:estrogen ratio and test:cortisol ratios over time, and cordyceps and dodder mimic LH and increase cAMP as well.

3. The compounds you stack the products will determine the type of gains you get from them......here are some options, and likely effects (given sound diet, rest, and nutrition):

A. IGF-2/RPM/Drive/NeoVar- great bulking, PCT, or recomp stack. Some AR stimulation (PKA pathway, but will not alter HPTA), thyroid elevation (anabolic in this case), some increase in GH with correct night-time dosing, increases in adenylate cyclase and PCr levels, great energy and mood boost, as well as increases in protein synthesis and intracellular hydration/osmotic pressure. Also, some inhibition of SHBG and estrogen, and inhibition of cortisol.

Lean mass gains on caloric surplus should be fairly substantial over an 8-12 week cycle, without a great deal of concurrent fat gain- I would venture a guess of 10-15 lbs. of lean body mass.

B. LipoAM/LipoPM/RPM/Drive- great fat loss stack and great stack for preserving lean mass on a cut. Some AR stimulation, good thyroid activation from forskolin and bacopa (and won't allow thyroid to take a vacation during caloric deficit), great cAMP and norepinephrine increases, CCK inhibition and HSL activation, with a good energy and mood boost. EGCG in AM/PM will also make any other component used with it work even better

You may stay the same weight on this stack, but lose 5-10 lbs. of fat mass Very potent, yet great for preserving lean mass....great "get ready for summer"-type stack.....

As you can see, everything in the AN line stacks well together- and different products in different combinations are synergistic in different ways.... you could add Osteo-C in for joints as well, if you wanted....

thanks for the replies, I think I will add RPM/Drive to my bulk. Stack will probably be RPM, Drive, Purple Wraath, Gluatmine, Protein. Do you think a creatine is necessary? I have been consisntely on a creatine for about a year.

The RPM/Drive stack is versatile- it can be used for cutting, recomp, or bulking, depending on your goals and what you stack the products with.

1. Both Drive and RPM have thermogenic/fat burning qualities: icariin has been shown to have some thyrogenic qualities, and forskolin has been shown in human studies to elevate thyroid (which is anabolic as well) and is a potent cAMP stimulator, and both of these qualities are essential in fat loss, as thyroid elevation causes a concurrent increase in BMR, while increased cAMP at the cellular level allows for the stimulation of HSL, which in turn liberates stored triglycerides and allows them to be metabolized by the mitochondria of the cell as fuel. Cordyceps and dodder also increase cAMP and ATP, furthering this effect. Caffeine has also been shown to have the ability to liberate fatty acids from triglycerides, and chocamine also has some fat-burning qualities as well.

2. Both Drive and RPM have anabolic qualities: forskolin increases cyclic AMP, and has some effects on the AR, and is a potent trigger for endogenous testosterone production, and has been shown in recent human studies to increase lean mass. Icariin and other PDE5 inhibitors have also been shown to significantly alter the test:estrogen ratio and test:cortisol ratios over time, and cordyceps and dodder mimic LH and increase cAMP as well.

3. The compounds you stack the products will determine the type of gains you get from them......here are some options, and likely effects (given sound diet, rest, and nutrition):

A. IGF-2/RPM/Drive/NeoVar- great bulking, post cycle therapy, or recomp stack. Some AR stimulation (PKA pathway, but will not alter HPTA), thyroid elevation (anabolic in this case), some increase in GH with correct night-time dosing, increases in adenylate cyclase and PCr levels, great energy and mood boost, as well as increases in protein synthesis and intracellular hydration/osmotic pressure. Also, some inhibition of SHBG and estrogen, and inhibition of cortisol.

Lean mass gains on caloric surplus should be fairly substantial over an 8-12 week cycle, without a great deal of concurrent fat gain- I would venture a guess of 10-15 lbs. of lean body mass.

B. LipoAM/LipoPM/RPM/Drive- great fat loss stack and great stack for preserving lean mass on a cut. Some AR stimulation, good thyroid activation from forskolin and bacopa (and won't allow thyroid to take a vacation during caloric deficit), great cAMP and norepinephrine increases, CCK inhibition and HSL activation, with a good energy and mood boost. EGCG in AM/PM will also make any other component used with it work even better

You may stay the same weight on this stack, but lose 5-10 lbs. of fat mass Very potent, yet great for preserving lean mass....great "get ready for summer"-type stack.....

As you can see, everything in the AN line stacks well together- and different products in different combinations are synergistic in different ways.... you could add Osteo-C in for joints as well, if you wanted....

Give this man a raise

Applied Nutriceuticals RepresentativeBetter Results Through ScienceSuccess occurs when everything you have is APPLIED.
Have you heard about N.O. Uptake? ;-)

:hockeyroom28: -thanks for the replies, I think I will add RPM/Drive to my bulk. Stack will probably be RPM, Drive, Purple Wraath, Gluatmine, Protein. Do you think a creatine is necessary? I have been consisntely on a creatine for about a year.

creatine is hit or miss with some folks, there are lots of different types out there. so ask yourself: have i gained anything from creatine over the course of taking it?....if so, which worked best?(if uve tried more than one kind) and just go from there

creatine is hit or miss with some folks, there are lots of different types out there. so ask yourself: have i gained anything from creatine over the course of taking it?....if so, which worked best?(if uve tried more than one kind) and just go from there

Applied Nutriceuticals RepresentativeBetter Results Through ScienceSuccess occurs when everything you have is APPLIED.
Have you heard about N.O. Uptake? ;-)

thanks for the replies, I think I will add RPM/Drive to my bulk. Stack will probably be RPM, Drive, Purple Wraath, Gluatmine, Protein. Do you think a creatine is necessary? I have been consisntely on a creatine for about a year.

id have to say bulk, like cellar said it has "thermo-like" effects but its more for leaning/toning out, not fat loss

This may sound like a dumb statement/question... but isn't leaning out synonymous with fatloss?

I mean contrary to believe, you can't tone a muscle persay. You either build muscle (anabolic) or you lose muscle (catabolic). If one were to take a supplement that leaned them out, I'd think that it would make it a good fatloss supplement.

I'm sure this also has to do with it's SERM and AI properties causing decreased subcutaneous water and masculine-positively skewed testosterone to estrogen ratio which would favor lean tissue mass over lipogenesis.