What a shame! What is the difference same DC, same players except Law and Hali, just different HC? I don't get it. Please explain.

007

10-08-2006, 07:24 PM

Well, yeah. What's your point?

Brock

10-08-2006, 07:25 PM

Dick Vermeil didn't want a defense like this one.

Lzen

10-08-2006, 07:26 PM

New DTs starting. Hali at DE is a HUGE improvement over Hicks. LBers have improved dramatically. Gun has gotten some assistants that can actually coach.

|Zach|

10-08-2006, 07:27 PM

There is a reason we didn't have a D like this. I will let you guess what it is.

Lzen

10-08-2006, 07:28 PM

Dick Vermeil didn't want a defense like this one.

If by 'didn't want a defense like this one' you mean that he didn't do nearly enough to get it there, then yes, I agree. That and I don't think he has a clue about how to build a great defense.

'Hamas' Jenkins

10-08-2006, 07:28 PM

There is a reason we didn't have a D like this. I will let you guess what it is.

They would have taken the spot away from its rightful owner, Lew Bush.

Brock

10-08-2006, 07:29 PM

If by 'didn't want a defense like this one' you mean that he didn't do nearly enough to get it there, then yes, I agree. That and I don't think he has a clue about how to build a great defense.

It's not like the Chiefs used a great deal of imagination in how to fix the problem, it was actually pretty elementary. Vermeil simply ignored the problem.

htismaqe

10-08-2006, 07:33 PM

Why do you keep posting this stuff when you know what the reaction will be?

It's quite simple:

Having this defense and Dick Vermeil being head coach are mutually exclusive...

chiefsfan1963

10-08-2006, 07:35 PM

If by 'didn't want a defense like this one' you mean that he didn't do nearly enough to get it there, then yes, I agree. That and I don't think he has a clue about how to build a great defense.

It's the same players same DC just Hali and Law and the HC is different.
DV didn't butt in on Gun's coaching he let him do his own thing. Didn't he? I think overall this draft class is the one reason why this D is better!

Pollard, Page, Hali and Law is the difference.

L.A. Chieffan

10-08-2006, 07:37 PM

this was the kinda game that DV woulda lost. Early turnovers and big plays on AZ offense. We woulda been screwed under DV

htismaqe

10-08-2006, 07:39 PM

It's the same players same DC just Hali and Law and the HC is different.
DV didn't butt in on Gun's coaching he let him do his own thing. Didn't he? I think overall this draft class is the one reason why this D is better!

Pollard, Page, Hali and Law is the difference.

And who was responsible for this draft class? Anybody other than Herm, right?

Iowanian

10-08-2006, 07:40 PM

IF DV were half the coach you think he was......he'd have been smart enough to actually build a defense with some talent.

How many Starters on DVs Defense.....are out of the league now?

dtebbe

10-08-2006, 07:41 PM

Hali is about a 1000% upgrade over Hicks, and Law about 300% over Eric "Schlitz" Warfield.

DT

chiefsfan1963

10-08-2006, 07:43 PM

And who was responsible for this draft class? Anybody other than Herm, right?

Herm absolutely! Give him full credit.

But would DV not get input this season if he was the HC from CP and others on who best to draft and wouldn't they have drafted defensive players. Would he had picked just duds?

ChiefsCountry

10-08-2006, 07:43 PM

And who was responsible for this draft class? Anybody other than Herm, right?

I would say Carl but the other jackasses would blame him.

htismaqe

10-08-2006, 07:46 PM

Herm absolutely! Give him full credit.

But would DV not get input this season if he was the HC from CP and others on who best to draft and wouldn't they have drafted defensive players. Would he had picked just duds?

DV had 5 years of picking duds. DV and his staff always went for athletes instead of football players. Hell, the year we got LJ, he cried publically about wanting Tyler Brayton. I mean, are you suggesting that he would have magically changed 180-degrees this offseason and drafted the guys we drafted? Considering he drafted maybe 2 or 3 guys that fit our new profile in FIVE YEARS, I highly doubt it.

Lzen

10-08-2006, 07:48 PM

It's the same players same DC just Hali and Law and the HC is different.
DV didn't butt in on Gun's coaching he let him do his own thing. Didn't he? I think overall this draft class is the one reason why this D is better!

Pollard, Page, Hali and Law is the difference.

DV was loyal to Hicks - huge mistake....should've replaced him long ago
DV was loyal to G.Robinson - huge mistake.....should've replaced him long before he finally did
DV wouldn't let Gun get his own assistants.......Giunta? Are you ****ing kidding me?
And the starting DTs are different than last year. Are you blind?

Brock

10-08-2006, 07:49 PM

What DV will be remembered for is an awesome offense, Greg Robinson, Ryan Sims and Junior Siavii.

Lzen

10-08-2006, 07:51 PM

I loved DV as a head coach. But there's no denying that he made a lot of obvious errors in judgement that cost this team chances at making or winning in the playoffs.

Mr. Laz

10-08-2006, 08:09 PM

if we could just have two head coaches .....

Vermeil for the offense
Edwards for the defense

shucks

JohnnyV13

10-09-2006, 05:42 AM

i think time had something to do with it. The D was playing better at the end of last season. AND i think the new D tackles are helping more than most realize.

Having TWO outstanding corners really helps. Now you run those 8 guys up defenses.

MahiMike

10-09-2006, 06:35 AM

Dick Vermeil didn't want a defense like this one.

Idiot alert.

jspchief

10-09-2006, 06:49 AM

If we had this D the last 5 years....

If my aunt had a dick she'd be my uncle.

ck_IN

10-09-2006, 07:21 AM

<i>But would DV not get input this season if he was the HC from CP and others on who best to draft and wouldn't they have drafted defensive players. Would he had picked just duds?</i>

The short answer to your question is yes he would've likely picked duds.

FAs signed under DV: Barber, Bell, McCleon, and Dalton. To his credit he got Knight and Surtain.

Now considering that overall motley crew what in Gods green earth makes you think DV would've had a defense like this one?

ck_IN

10-09-2006, 07:23 AM

You're also assuming that he cared about defense. My basic concept is from the day DV arrived all he cared about was stroking his ego by building an offense equal to or better then what St Lou had. That would allow him to prove that he was the brains behind the 'Show' and not Martz.

Brock

10-09-2006, 08:33 AM

Idiot alert.

Thanks for the warning, but we're all painfully aware of your situation.

vailpass

10-09-2006, 08:47 AM

"If we had this D the last 5 years, DV would have 3 more SB rings."
ROFL Manic Planet is on the upswing after their Doomsday D defeated the might Niners and the fearsome Cardinals, 2 of the 3 worst teams in the league. Congrats on coming from behind to grab a win yesterday but SB caliber D? Wow.

Iowanian

10-09-2006, 09:34 AM

There is more to this picture than you suggest.

DV had an opportunity to get Ty Law the previous year, and didn't. DV kept an obviously horrible Eric Hicks as a starter, Eric Warfield as a starter and he's not in the NFL a year later. While Carl and the Dv era are responsible for bringing in Kawika Mitchell and Derick Johnson(who fell in their lap unexpectedly).....Sermon Edwards replaced 2 of Dvs starting DTs....Dalton and Sims were replaced with Edwards and Reed, niether whom would have been here without Herman....added a 2 new corners to the top 3 of the depth chart, and drafted rookie D players who are having an impact this year. All of this is overlooking the implementation of Herman's Cover 2 D with Gunther.

DV cared alot more about the offense and it was painfully obvious.

It's the same players same DC just Hali and Law and the HC is different.
DV didn't butt in on Gun's coaching he let him do his own thing. Didn't he? I think overall this draft class is the one reason why this D is better!

Pollard, Page, Hali and Law is the difference.

KILLER_CLOWN

10-09-2006, 09:59 AM

Herms greatest decision was ridding the starting team of one Eric Hicks, the rest of the moves were easy ones to make. I still think having T-Rich would help our offense tenfold.

KILLER_CLOWN

10-09-2006, 10:01 AM

"If we had this D the last 5 years, DV would have 3 more SB rings."
ROFL Manic Planet is on the upswing after their Doomsday D defeated the might Niners and the fearsome Cardinals, 2 of the 3 worst teams in the league. Congrats on coming from behind to grab a win yesterday but SB caliber D? Wow.

Lead balloon time, Gun maybe the reason for DVs success(though limited) with the D in his final seasons. Mitchell was Gun's project

edit: I should add, Gun was forced on DV IMO

Skip Towne

10-09-2006, 10:20 AM

Why is it that Gun is able to field good defenses as long as the HC is a good D coach. But if you put him under an O head coach, he falls on his ass. I think Gun is a LB coach who has been Peter Principled to the DC job.

keg in kc

10-09-2006, 10:21 AM

Time to rename you "DV Excuse Wagon".

Calcountry

10-09-2006, 11:29 AM

IF DV were half the coach you think he was......he'd have been smart enough to actually build a defense with some talent.

How many Starters on DVs Defense.....are out of the league now?I heard Scott Fu GEEE TAh's name the other day.

penchief

10-09-2006, 11:53 AM

What about Bill Kuharich (VP of player personnel)? Wasn't last year his first year as well? I'd have to assume that the defensive players taken in last year's draft were Edwards' choices based on Herm's and Kuharich's input and Peterson's approval.

Vermeil stunted the young players, IMO. It took either a big need or a lot of diligence for young players to make their way into playing time on Vermeil's team. Dante won Dick's heart and DJ was annointed from day one, but other than that, Allen was about the only one that earned his way without Vermeil standing in his way. LJ was so obviously a rare talent that his 1.5 years on the inactive list is still a mystery. If nothing else, he would have been a pro-bowl kickoff returner or a guy that could have caught swing passes out of the backfield or made those tough yards in short yardage situations.

Vermeil's time was a fun ride. But, he did us no favors with his unwillingness to trust younger players or help them develop their skills. I'm looking forward to a new era in which we draft and develop our own stars.

Logical

10-09-2006, 11:54 AM

Exagerate much? Maybe 1.

Logical

10-09-2006, 11:58 AM

DV was loyal to Hicks - huge mistake....should've replaced him long ago
DV was loyal to G.Robinson - huge mistake.....should've replaced him long before he finally did
DV wouldn't let Gun get his own assistants.......Giunta? Are you ****ing kidding me?
And the starting DTs are different than last year. Are you blind?:clap::clap: