I always thought Chauncey was overrated, and Rip and Tayshaun were
under-appreciated. Don't get me wrong, the guy can lead a ball club.
I'm just really tired of all the blame being put on Ivo and all the
praise going to Billups.

STATISTICALLY, Iverson trumps Billups in almost every category.
The biggest knock on Ivo is his FG %, but you know what, Billups is
an even worse shooter! Billups has shot under 40% six times in his career. Iverson only had two "under 40" seasons, and shot a career-best
45.8% last year (and 45.1% the year before).

Iverson doesn't pass? His career average in assists is greater than
Billups' avg, but of course Ivo played a lot more minutes. So maybe
that's negated.

Turnovers, FT% and 3-pt% is where Chauncey shines. However, Ivo's
FT% is pretty good. He was mediocre at FTs out of college, but worked
on it every year until he became a reliable 80% guy. If you throw out
the first 3 years of his career, his career FT% is in the 80s (78% w/out).

Points, FG%, Steals, Rebounds, Assists, you name it. Better. Period.
So let's not call him "inefficient" on the forums anymore.
Ok? I'm not even going to get into individual accomplishments, because
that would be petty.

LEADERSHIP isn't something you can really measure, but obviously,
Chauncey is great at bringing chemistry to a team. The fact is, if
a good team is missing a starting point guard and you give Chauncey
a prominent role, the team will improve. With Ivo, you have to
build a team around him. He's a superstar and a scorer. That's how it
always works. The trade was a business move for cap space. That's
the harsh reality of the situation.

Let's just be harsher on Curry's impossible job of managing all the talent
on his team.

I always thought Chauncey was overrated, and Rip and Tayshaun were
under-appreciated. Don't get me wrong, the guy can lead a ball club.
I'm just really tired of all the blame being put on Ivo and all the
praise going to Billups.

STATISTICALLY, Iverson trumps Billups in almost every category.
The biggest knock on Ivo is his FG %, but you know what, Billups is
an even worse shooter! Billups has shot under 40% six times in his career. Iverson only had two "under 40" seasons, and shot a career-best
45.8% last year (and 45.1% the year before).

Iverson doesn't pass? His career average in assists is greater than
Billups' avg, but of course Ivo played a lot more minutes. So maybe
that's negated.

Turnovers, FT% and 3-pt% is where Chauncey shines. However, Ivo's
FT% is pretty good. He was mediocre at FTs out of college, but worked
on it every year until he became a reliable 80% guy. If you throw out
the first 3 years of his career, his career FT% is in the 80s (78% w/out).

Points, FG%, Steals, Rebounds, Assists, you name it. Better. Period.
So let's not call him "inefficient" on the forums anymore.
Ok? I'm not even going to get into individual accomplishments, because
that would be petty.

LEADERSHIP isn't something you can really measure, but obviously,
Chauncey is great at bringing chemistry to a team. The fact is, if
a good team is missing a starting point guard and you give Chauncey
a prominent role, the team will improve. With Ivo, you have to
build a team around him. He's a superstar and a scorer. That's how it
always works. The trade was a business move for cap space. That's
the harsh reality of the situation.

Let's just be harsher on Curry's impossible job of managing all the talent
on his team.

Click to expand...

I can't help but think that the main reason why u created this thread was to start Billups vs Iverson argument..

I'm of the biggest pistons fans out there...but seriously who cares about AI's career stats...or what he's done in previous seasons...Just because he's had a better career than Billups doesn't mean he's playing better basketball them him right now..cuz Billups is out playing AI this year...Right now I don't care about AI's stats from previous seasons...all I care about is his performance this year...

He is not the reason for denver's success. Nene vs camby, andersen as back up vs najera as back up..
Anthony carter playing less as pg vs jr smith playing the sg more..
this are the reasons why denver got so better from last year. people act like its all billups..

^ honestly, i just forgot to put the defense section. that says more
about me than it does about them.
i've never been of the school of thought that says a great offensive
player has to be a great defensive player too. anyway...

neither one is a great defender. to be more specific, iverson is amazing
at playing the passing lanes. he gets a ton of steals. billups...commits
to the "team defense" approach, but he doesn't get a lot of steals
or blocks (obvious, since he's a PG). in terms of non-statistical
defensive effort, iverson sometimes loses his man. however, billups
doesn't really "stop" any one 1-on-1.

so, ivo's good at passing lanes and gets a lot of steals.

billups is good at team D.

neither one is a good individual defender.

Just because he's had a better career than Billups doesn't mean he's playing better basketball them him right now..cuz Billups is out playing AI this year...

Click to expand...

^ misconception. denver is playing well (mainly because of nene's
vast improvement) . billups and ivo have very similar numbers, actually.
a single big game (or bad game) from either one could swing their
positions. in their key stats (pts, assists, FG%), billups is 1 pt, 1 assist,
better. they're shooting the same FG%.

so, they have very similar numbers. even their TOs are close. in fact,
ivo has very few turnovers this season (2.7). you could argue he's
taking better care of the ball than ever before.

He is not the reason for denver's success. Nene vs camby, andersen as back up vs najera as back up..
Anthony carter playing less as pg vs jr smith playing the sg more..
this are the reasons why denver got so better from last year. people act like its all billups..

Click to expand...

This is the dumbest thing I've read all morning. He is the reason for their success. Don't get it twisted. All of the players you mention weren't doing squat until he came and got them together and started running the show. So he is special, very special and there's nothing you or anyone can do about that.

This is reminding me of back when I was a kid and the weekly televised game would feature, during half time, a one-on-one game between two great players. Does anybody else remember this? I've been searching, but haven't found out exactly what years this was done, who played, and which network was doing it.

This is the dumbest thing I've read all morning. He is the reason for their success. Don't get it twisted. All of the players you mention weren't doing squat until he came and got them together and started running the show. So he is special, very special and there's nothing you or anyone can do about that.

Click to expand...

All of those players didnt play when AI was there.You dont get it twisted. JR Smith played limited minutes, Anthony carter played alot at PG. Nene was out all season to cancer..Chris Andersen was signed in the summer, dahntay jones was signed in the summer.
they have 3/5 new line up, plus JR Smith playing more...

What was Denver's record at this time last year? I do think Billups is a different type of player than AI so the probably have improved, but not by that much. Nene was out last year with cancer and Kenyon was injured also. Pistons problems are deeper than just billups.

The thing that AI supposedly had going for him when he joined the Pistons was that he was "hungry" for a championship.

It was a contrast from guys like Billups and Rip who had their rings and were getting complacent.

So complacent Rip is sent to the bench and has been responding well so far. AI is still deferring to others rather than taking a leadership role on the team. That play at the end of the third quarter of last night's game is a perfect example. AI with the ball in his hands, dribbles out the clock, and passes to a Well covered Rasheed who has to force up a 3....(Rips off headband and stomps to the bench).

AI needs the Coach to give him the green light to be the leader we need.

With the right coach this could work...or maybe MC will become the right coach as the season progresses?