Navy to place breath-test machines on all its ships

Navy to place breath-test machines on all its ships

In 1913, Navy Secretary Josephus Daniels issued a revolutionary order: no more alcohol on board ships. According to official Navy myth, sober sailors mocked their boss by nicknaming their coffee — the strongest drink still allowed on board — a “cup of Joe.”

A century later, current Navy Secretary Ray Mabus is one-upping
Daniels, ordering the installation of breath-test machines on all ships
and submarines, as well as on Marine Corps bases. One can only imagine
how he will go down in naval lore.

According to Mabus, the breath tests are not intended as a crackdown
measure but rather to help identify sailors who might be struggling with
booze. The alcohol testing is part of a broader new Navy program
designed to improve the physical and mental well-being of those having
difficulty coping with the stresses of a decade of war.

“We are not telling you not to drink, if you are old enough,” Mabus
told an audience of sailors and Marines Monday afternoon aboard the USS
Bataan at Naval Station Norfolk. “We are telling you that it is
important to keep legal, responsible use of alcohol from turning into a
problem.”

----

Mabus made his announcement aboard the Bataan, an amphibious assault
ship that returned last month after 322 days at sea — the longest
deployment of any Navy ship in four decades.

Not sure if I'd be happy with this if I was still in. Same principle as random cup peeing I suppose, but unless things have changed allot they shouldn't be having that much of a problem. It was usually easy to tell the guys (or girls) who really needed to go to Level 2/3 just by being around them and/or smelling their breath at quarters.

Also, 322 days at sea? That's just crazy, especially with the wars ending (Iraq) or winding down (Afghanistan). Wonder what they did for all that time?

If the Navy is still doing that 'random deployment length' idea that came up after 9/11, I have to wonder what it's been doing for retention rates. It's one thing to have an extended deployment for a hot war (did 8 months for ODS) but it doesn't make much sense in peacetime/low action occupation time. Not like the enemy can't turn on the news and see at least in general where the ships are, or when they are deploying/returning.

“…Science as it is really practiced, caught up in the turmoil of personalities, with Truth always out of reach, and truths too often limping along, wounded in the turf wars and drive-bys of gangs of Ph.D.-totin’ grant-heads.”
Orson Scott Card: “Future on Ice”

"Your all a bunch of drunk, smoking, raping, wife/husband beating, suicidal, weaklings and we don’t trust you with this ship so you need to be given random breathalyzer tests“. I wonder if it will be like on some cars, the engine room crew will have to blow into a breathalyzer to start the engines?

Also I am wondering it the civilian workers who come on ships or who work at the Pentagon will also be tested?

I do remember reading reports of crew coming back from liberty drunk and sent to bed.
The quarterdeck watch (Messenger) did check on them periodically but they are sometimes found dead on the checks
One good thing about these machines is that those who are severely intoxicated can be tested on coming aboard. If their BAC is at dangerous levels, emergency procedures can be initiated.
That at least might be a net positive.

“You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them? So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe.”
J. Michael Straczynski

The "322 days at sea" seems to be the full length of the deployment, not the actual at-sea time. There were probably seven or eight port visits during that time.

I used 'at sea' when I was in to mean away from home, not necessarily actually at sea. In other words I'd tell my wife I'd be 'at sea for 2 months starting in June' or similar, even though there may be a port visit in there. I should have been more specific with my original post.

My 'personal best' is 82 days continuously at sea...that's long enough for me!

hoist40 wrote:I wonder if it will be like on some cars, the engine room crew will have to blow into a breathalyzer to start the engines?

They come down and check once a year random check regardless of any problem or not. They also do random additional checks as they feel justified to do, regardless of if there is a problem or not. They give no reason why they're checking. It's all as a term of employment. If you don't take the test, it counts as failing the test, and your fired.

I believe that you'll find most construction, manufacturing, and such firms with a policy like this. Some follow it, some don't, but they're all legally required to do it.

And, in most tech and possibly all professional services corporations, ALL employees are banned from abuse of alcohol or any use of drugs not prescribed by a physician for treatment, and no illegal substances are supposed to be "findable" if a client ran a drug sweep. Yes, sub-contractors are eligible for being randomly tested if on the client's site.

I had a fellow RM whose wife was mailing booze to him to the Gulf, and he corrupted half the Shack, which had I known, might have caused an NCIS/NIS investigation had he done one or two more things to threaten me. Since I only found out the night I was debarking and cross-decking by VERTREP to Coronado, I decided that burning everyone else on a vengeance hit at him was not worth it.

Who knows, maybe the same thing has been happening and maybe even some US Postal or USN PCs or other "loopholes" permitted booze to flow to ships. If COs are reporting drunkards and various NJPs/Articles are charged and being "awarded", then obviously the USN *must* install some sort of metrics-capturing device. Can't continue to destroy expensive careers by burning COs for something totally out of their control. If the QD watch is not able to efficiently do 100% bag/kit screening, booze will come aboard. Other scary things will be found on those searches (sex toys, knives, drug paraphernalia, banned books, Viagra, and all sorts of other embarrassing or condemnatory items), legal to purchase or not. Some of those findings might destroy marriages, compromise security clearances, and cause other fallout. Some of the fallout could lead to "rampages" and painful, real Security Alert responses.

Installing the breath testers limits the scope of searches to a single, legitimate target. It limits fallout in the event a legal situation threatens to spiral out of control. It keeps the focus on alcohol abuse -- for now. But, later, it might turn to drugs and STD with more focus on certain things. All it takes is a strand of hair or a plastic card to scrape skin or follicles. Urine is already obtainable, and maybe saliva is, too.

Sailors in the USN (hell, citizens of and in the US of A for that matter) could ponder what it is like for South Korean nationals: they are not allowed to consume narcotics. Even if they go abroad, they can be tested IMMEDIATELY upon arrival to Immigrations in SK, and if they turn up positive for controlled substances, they can be jailed or imprisoned. All it takes is a hair sample, and it is *over*, although they may be sent to a rehab program.

Anyway, who wants to go to GQ and have an OS or an EW in CIC hitting buttons too slowly due to alcohol impairment? Who wants a GS incorrectly setting or overriding engine settings? Who wants a QM manually plotting too slowly if the automated navigation instruments malfunction? Who wants an SM sending confusing or dangerously incorrect Semaphore signals? Or an officer no on station, leaving it to a CPO to cover his/her ass for the umpteenth time?

Of course, it could get crazy if breath testers were stationed every 25% the length of the ship and every other deck level and everyone given "PASS" cards requiring breath tests every 7 hours when underway longer than 2 days, and every 4 hours if transiting from port to port or not sailing more than 100 miles off coast.... But, then that would kill re-enlistment and crimp recruiting. And, it might serve as a way to legitimately reduce billets if budget woes don't improve. Won't help DD-214 prospects, though.

Jeepers. Have we really come this far? Buggery's okay, but the rum is out? I can't imagine the naval service without situational alcoholism -- and a fair leavening of the chronic type -- and I don't want to. (Sorry all you PC mavens, but that's how it is.)

FreshAirSnipe:

My personal best was 77 days, but I get bonus points for it being Diego Garcia to Diego Garcia. (If you've ever been there, you know why the bonus points.)

Since I've never been a naval person, my first question is, of course, is whether this is the same sort of overreaction that could put somebody in jail for letting one of their kids have a sip of the Passover wine. I realize that alcoholic beverages are largely forbidden on USN ships, so somebody having a 3.2 beer is almost certainly violating USN regulations. I'd worry more about serious alcohol abusers. Here, I think that some sort of program to get these people help may be more useful, especially if the abusers' shipmates can be convinced that the abusers are actively dangerous, and those who accept treatment won't be punished. Unfortunately, it seems too often that drinking, especially binge drinking, has become a bonding activity among the 20-somethings (and younger!) of America.

Drunk on duty is obviously bad. The trouble is that people can be significantly impaired long before the appear drunk.

Why is it the same people who promote evidence-based medicine and evidence-based school systems object so strenuously to evidence-based biology and evidence-based climate science?

Reading the tea leaves, I don't think the big concern is with elicit alcohol consumption at sea, but legal, excessive alcohol consumption in port. Thing is, like many things, there are already sufficient regulations to cover the problem, because sailors and Marines getting drunk and stupi out in civilian land is nothing new. You're not supposed to drink within eight hours of being scheduled for duty, and you can be quite severely punished for being unable to perform your duty, even if you stopped drinking before the magic time tick.

In any case, binge drinking in the naval service is nothing new or shocking to those of us who have served.

The problem is that the Navy is getting too damn PC and looking for anyway to thin out our ranks. Between PTS, ERB, Continuation Boards its getting really bad. They aren't looking for anybody who slipped up in the past, made a mends and became supper sailor. Their looking for this squeaky clean sailor who has never stepped over any line to pass on up the chain. My question is, if these sailors never, witness or been involved in any type of altercation, how are they going to deal with a similar situation when they are in charge? Today's Navy is literally killing every aspects "fun" into our jobs and moral keeps on going lower and lower. I'm getting rid of three 1st classes by September because of ERB. Two of them have clean records pertaining to work and being a sailor. AE1 is getting the boot because he had a PRT failure 5 years ago! AD1, well, lets not go there. AM1, clean record and we're scratching our heads over his selection. Good thing about him, he was able to get his BA and will be working for me in the JSF shithole.

The Mess is fighting back on this one, but the MCPON Rick West is a tool, a PC butt lick tool....

"Freedom has never been free; there will ALWAYS be a price for Liberty!"

IcelofAngeln wrote:
Poll: Is Mabus the worst SecNav in US history? This after the USS John Murtha, USS Cesar Chavez, the "50% alternative fuels" lunacy....

I don't know about "in US history" but certainly within recent memory.

I have to go back to Josephus Daniels for one as bad. Daniels actually overthrew the lawfully elected city government of Wilmington, NC because the GOP had won an election. He then precipitated the fall of the Republican Governor and paid for the election campaigns of Democrats all across North Carolina in the general election. He used his newspapers to keep GOP campaign ads to a minimum thus most voters did not even know who the GOP candidates were. He paid for people to go around and run off voters who attended GOP events and he paid local elections officials to keep blacks from voting on the presumption they would vote GOP in the wake of Wilmington. For his "contributions" to the Democratic Party, Josephus Daniels was rewarded with the job of Secretary of the Navy by Woodrow Wilson. Daniels and Wilson agreed on one thing, that was the Democratic Party and the federal government needed more members of the Ku Klux Klan in the civil service. Thankfully, Warren G. Harding thought the opposite, fired the Klan members and refused subsequently to employ them.