E.
Raymond Rock of Fort Myers, Florida, is a founder and principal teacher
at the Southwest
Florida Insight Center. His twenty-six years of meditation experience
has taken him across four continents, including two stopovers in Thailand
where he practiced in the remote northeast forests as an ordained Theravada
Buddhist monk. His first book, A
Year to Enlightenment (Career Press/New Page Books) is now available
at Amazon.Com for
pre-orders, and will arrive nationally in major bookstores in the fall
of 2006. He is also the author of Personal Transformations at Open
Space.

Michael W. Clark, Ph.D runs Earthpages.org,
an open-ended forum and portal to the best of the web. Sections include
images of the world, articles, reviews, humor and verse; topics include
the environment, health, religion, mythology and psychology, science, spirituality,
women and more. He also has a personal site at Michael
W. Clark.com

Rock:
Is there any possibility of humanity going beyond its opinions and beliefs,
or are we destined to fight with each other forever? If God commanded you
to come up with something that would satisfy all beliefs, yet enlighten
all minds, what would you suggest?

Clark: That is an interesting question.
I do not know the answer for sure. Some believe that, as the New Testament
of the Bible suggests, there ultimately will be a period of peace. But in
my view, it is hard to know if this is just prophetic symbolism or something
that will actually happen on Earth. It seems our human personalities inevitably
come into conflict with one another. But as free beings we have a choice
as to how to deal with that. We can see conflict as an opportunity for mutual
understanding and growth. Or we can just react like an animal would. Worse,
we can plot and scheme like devils. And don’t laugh, because it’s no joke;
many people do.

I do not think we can always go beyond
our opinions and beliefs. But I think during moments of grace we can. So
if we continually turn to God for guidance, we might become better and better
servants of the Divine. Some say that too much introspection is a bad thing.
But I think that if you do not know your true inner core, then you are going
to be acting on the basis of some personality fragment or tangent; or perhaps
on the basis of a socio-cultural, transpersonal or negative spiritual influence.
If you do not act from the center, then whatever bad you do will likely
come back on you. If you act from the loving center, informed by Grace (or
as Catholics would say, the Holy Spirit), then good will come back.

Rock: You mention that too much
introspection is bad. Could you expand on that a little – where does that
attitude come from? Perhaps introspection is bad for those who do not want
their flock to see too clearly! The contemplative saints regarded contemplative
prayer highly, discovering that the state of grace could be enhanced by
orison, which is similar to Eastern thinking that meditation creates fertile
ground for enlightenment.

Since nothing else has worked throughout
history (we are still killing ourselves in the name of God!), could it actually
be that introspection, orison, recollection, the dark night and unison,
would enlighten our minds? And could it be that the Second Coming of Christ
(Christ translated as enlightened mind)
might be a universal enlightening of many people, instead of an individual
Savior, this time around?

Thank you for your input. I am trying to
find a common denominator among all religions that would transcend beliefs,
yet not disparage any religion. What other hope do we have? Rarely will
a Muslim become a Christian, or a Buddhist a Muslim. Perhaps introspection
– meditation and contemplative prayer – could be an answer. Perhaps Christ
was trying to teach us how to go within, but the original Church Fathers
(no different from today), stressed the emotional side of Christianity,
feeling that the deeper teachings should only be reserved for monks, thinking
that the masses were not ready. Maybe it was more important to build a religion
in those days than free their flock from the fear of God, and the fear of
themselves, both of which are laid bare by deep prayer.

Clark: Ah, but I said that “some
say” too much introspection is a bad thing. That is a little trick
I learned over the years. It does not necessarily mean that too much introspection
is bad. It is just a useful way to bracket a statement. It means that some
people believe it is bad, those people not necessarily including myself.

However, I do believe that in my own life,
anyhow, it is good to keep some kind of working and flexible balance between
contemplation and outward activity, although I tend to be more contemplative
and less visibly active than most. I think everyone has to strike their
own balance here. And also, to keep renegotiating it.

My feeling on the Christian saints is that
most of them reached very high levels of Godly awareness. But it came with
such a price. They suffered for every grace received. And of course, their
suffering was not only for their own purification, but also for the redemption
of other souls. St. Faustina
Kowalska’s Divine
Mercy Diary is an excellent book about the power and importance of (contemplative)
prayer. If you have not read it already, I would recommend it.

As for the differences and similarities
among world religions when it comes to mysticism, this is a rich and fascinating
topic. It is really hard to know for sure what another mystic experiences.
Some believe they all come to the same type of “ah-ha” experience.
Others, like Rudolf
Otto and C.
G. Jung, stress that the grades and qualities of encountered numinosities
may differ. Myself, I find that the most intuitive folks in my hometown
are scattered across the board. It could be a woman working in a dollar
store. It could be the postman. It could be a businessperson with whom I
just have a passing conversation. And it could be a priest too. While the
vast majority of priests adhere to the standardized approach, I sometimes
wonder if in private they have their own thoughts on certain issues. Would
they be human if they did not?

I think you are right that most people
will not convert from their own path. And why should they? These religions,
when they work, serve to nurture the soul while keeping an individual’s
cultural underpinnings in place. I tend to see religions as flowerpots.
You need a pot to hold the soil. Every pot is a little different. But each
grows a plant (and hopefully a flower). And just as flowers may also differ,
so the look and feel of souls in heaven may differ too. Difference is not
a bad thing at all. How boring heaven would be if it contained ten trillion
daisies, and daisies only! As one person whom I spoke with through the web
once put it, “there are many different flowers in the Garden of Eden”.

And this brings me back to the idea of
getting in touch with the core, the center. I believe that it is here that
the heavenly flower grows. This is not necessarily the Jungian
self where the self is an aggregate or a totality of all observable
elements. I tend to think that ultimately, after all the lesser elements
are pruned away through eons of purification, we shine (and mediate grace)
in heaven. But I also think this takes a very long time for most of us.
Hence the importance of the idea of Purgatory.

To close, I should add that I have not
passed yet, so all this is mostly reasoned speculation. A theory. I do not
claim to really know what happens at death. Because other issues come into
play, such as the nature of space, time and eternity – both on Earth and
within other realms.

Thank you for an interesting question.
Feel free to follow up on any of this. I generally enjoy talking about the
soul and metaphysics.

Rock: Thank you Dr. Clark for your “enlightened” discussion,
rare to find these days! As you renegotiate your personal inward and outward
balance, and venture inwardly a little more, do you find yourself less interested
in worldly pleasures? And when you do revisit them, just to test their power
over you, do you find that they don’t hold the same mystique that they once
did? What was it that Thomas
Wolfe once wrote, “You can’t go home again”? To me, that indicates
the unrelenting changing nature of things, and how we really cannot count
on anything in the world. It is confusing, isn’t it, that a new reality
is developing, but you cannot grasp it as you have grasped things in the
past. Definitely a bittersweet experience.

Clark: Yes, it can be bittersweet
because for everything valuable that we gain, it seems we first must lose
something. This might be a golden rule. But I find that the gains really
do outstrip the losses. And as we mature in the path, as you say, we do
not really want those things we once craved. Moreover, they may reappear
in subtler ways. With regard to sexuality, for instance, see the Afterword in
my article Celibacy,
Sex and Spirituality. (Editor’s Note: On this
subject, see also our article
“Do We Have To
Give Up SEX?“)

I also believe that most people do revisit
past pleasures and interests from time to time for various reasons. Doubtfully
does it ever go in a straight line. Some say that the ego dances around
the self; that is, it does not always rest there, nor is it always perfectly
aligned with it. Still, most world religions advocate – and this might
get back to your initial question about syncretism – that the ego ideally
is a servant of the self. But again, the understanding as to just what constitutes
the self varies dramatically, I think. So, one has to choose the path that
is right for himself or herself. And also consider the possibility of embracing
new paths.

Rock: I read a story once about
a man entering a strange house, and finding a staircase which he was compelled
to climb. The further he climbed, the more fearful he became, until he decided
to climb back down – but all the steps had disappeared! A great analogy
of the spiritual quest.

I enjoyed your article; it is very well
thought out and complete. My experience with Roman Catholicism is like yours,
but backward. I spent the first thirty-eight years as a catholic, and then
the next twenty-seven meditating!

All religions seem to have their scripture
as a basis, accompanied by individual experience, or the deeper side based
on that scripture. I am at a point where I am taking a worldview of it all,
beyond my personal viewpoint, and I see that something is amiss. Wars are
still being fought over differences in religious beliefs.

My first experience of meditation was at Shasta
Abbey, which is a Zen monastery. The
monks there did not teach me Buddhist scripture, only insisted that I meditate,
and practice silence most of the day, and because of that simple practice,
my whole life was turned upside down with no teachings whatsoever. I was
very surprised!

Is it possible that contemplative prayer
or meditation could do the same thing for others? But how do you encourage
people to pray deeply; that is, to listen to God instead of talking? You
would think that everybody would want to communicate personally with the
Source of all understanding, but usually we are shy in this area. Few dare
to venture into the “dark
night of the soul” of St.
John of the Cross, or experiment with enlightenment.

Is it fear of seeing through our illusions,
our concept of self, our beliefs? We attach to these notions and feel comfortable
in them, not wanting to lose them, which is what happens when we achieve
that ineffable that can only be described as the unborn, the undying, beginning-less
and with no end. How would you ever introduce such a practice and concept
to busy, everyday people? I do not know the answer to this, but I tirelessly
attempt to find a way to introduce contemplative prayer and meditation into
everybody’s hearts.

There is that which is underneath all the
divisive beliefs, and to touch that is the key. It can be touched when all
our thoughts, opinions, and knowing dissolve into that mysterious realm
where we lose ourselves to that which is.

Clark: You know, I would keep asking
God for advice. I am not sure how, as a practicing Buddhist, you envision
the Godhead. Words and concepts can get in the way. But I tend to regard
God as the creator, somehow other but immanent.

From my experience, Buddhists tend to deemphasize
individuality while Roman Catholics feel that individuality is important.
But it seems that you still have some sense of an individual self, yet one
which is more fundamental than the intellectual, the conceptual, the desirous
and so on. That is the core that I feel is the important commonality among
all paths. As to how to get people to meditate, to contemplate, to know
the Divine, this is something that I personally do not try to rush. I see
the entire spectrum as important to the total picture. So I tend to look
at individuals, and to try to determine where they are at, what external
factors are influencing them, and so on. I guess as a doctor and educator,
that is my role. I do not see myself as a mass preacher or contemplative
exemplar. But maybe someone else is! As St.
Paul put it, “One body, many different members” (Editor’s
Note: See Romans 12.5, 1 Corinthians 10.17, and others).