Truth Behind Gospel of Judas Revealed in Ancient Inks

Clearly you have not read any gnostic texts... Or you wouldn't make such a ignorant statement...

And your quote comes from another member who knows little to nothing about gnostic texts as well... which ia evident by her statements... I remember
the thread that quote came from..

Clearly you HAVE read the gnostic texts...

I have NO interest in studying lies.

Makes JUST as much sense as someone saying you don't understand 9/11 because you haven't read the NIST report.

Let me correct you.... You have no interest in reading anything that might fall outside of your own bias...

And yes... I've studied all the gnostic texts extensively...

Though i find it pointless even participating in this thread because the shear ignorance of gnostic scripture is litterally bouncing off the seams of
my screen. Quite typical when Christians start discussing texts they know nothing about... They add an uneducated opinion and press the "dismiss"
button...

Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
And yet despite all of this there is truth in them.

So does the Zeitgeist films.

It's called rat poison for the soul - 99% truth, 1% lies.

It looks, tastes, and smells just like the real thing.

This has always been the modus operandi of the Deceiver... Satan's recipe: ? Take 10% truth, 20% probability, 20% possibility and mix with 50%
lies... Line a scrying bowl with some snake oil and pour in mixture. Bake over long period of time (preferably generations), and serve to gullable
public with some humor and logic. Make sure the container for the 10% truth that was added is hidden or destroyed (preferably)...and enjoy the
resulting constipation of the unwary...

You know how many people I have seen lose their lives engaged in sexual transgression. They wound up miserable with a bipolar disorder until they
either killed themselves or got baptized and repented. Look at all the rock stars that wound up drugging and whoring and put holes in their heads.

They all wound up demonstrating the same process as the character that Wynona Ryder in the movie Girl Interrupted. At the end of that movie
the counselor tells her upon her release that she is indulgent. Now to the average person this means nothing. I take it to mean sexual indulgence.
Why because I have seen various friends go through this process, and there was a pornographic film that came out called Girls Interrupted. Go to the
Pink Cross website and look at the people who didn't make it through the darkness. Many of them if not all of them were sexual abuse victims.

Now, I have seen a consistent pattern of sexual abuse victims including close friends deal with mood disorders, one of them wound up dead at their own
hands. Suicides burn in hell according to the Bible.

Now, the Bible says that God rewards people with stature based upon their dedication to righteousness. And yet I lived in an apartment complex in
Utah and saw a guy on the local sex offender registry who was much taller than I was. ie. He should be more spiritually mature than people shorter
than he is who I have seen as friends who were victimized by people like him who never reoffended. They weren't passive aggressive.

God rewards these passive aggressive predators like the one I saw in the apartment complex out in Utah, and another one on an island I recently lived
on. And yet the don't wind up executing themselves. Ironic no?

He sends their victims to hell, but not the Sandusky's. Sandusky is not miserable. Many of them a reintroduced in to society, but their victims burn
in hell. If they don't repent of fornication which you can expect in a society that doesn't require church attendance or censor it's entertainment
media is going to happen. Unless they repent. And yet people like Sandusky can keep REOFFENDING without winding up miserable. And their past trauma
is not an excuse.

Send their victims to hell. Let their victimizers live.

Jesus was a #ing IDIOT.

Accept Mohammed now.

Next time you see a Jesus statue in your local church spit on it, in honor of all the women on the Pink Cross website who wound up miserable because
they didn't repent and ended their lives, and then look at your local sex offender registry and look at all the offenders in your neighborhood that
your government doesn't execute like China, in public like they deserve to be. And then bow down before the guys on your local offender registry that
Mr. Righteous that got nailed to a Cross who exalts these idiots with stature and protects them from misery, even if they don't repent or feel
remorse. Sandusky has shown no remorse.

If Jesus is just, he should be wind up dead until he expresses tears for his victims long before girls on the Pink Cross website wind up miserable
engaged in behaviors which are not more than a misdemeanor, nor do they violate the Ten Commandments.

And this is why if we get into a war with nations like China that also practice Christianity that support North Korea we will lose.

They are more just. They protect people like the girls on the Pink Cross website by executing these idiots who victimize children.

Jesus as long as he executes their victims met a just fate at Judas hand

And this nation has a responsibility to meet the same level of dedication to the girls on that website by executing people who were responsible for
getting into that industry. Period.

We'll get our asses handed to us, because athiest nations show more logic in dealing with these clowns when you look at how Jesus judges them versus
their victimizers. It's absurd!!!!!

Jesus supports abuse. Therefore Judas should be taller than anyone. The more corrupt you are , the taller you are, and yet according to the Bible
its supposed to be just the opposite.

Judas should be the tallest man in heaven.!!!!!!!

Jesus said he was the word. If it pleases him according to the Bible to reward men with stature as it pleases him, then rapists should shorter then
people who don't victimize people.

I was in the Coast Guard. People generally of higher rank were MORE RESPONSIBLE than those of lesser rank and pay. Its just the opposite with Jesus.
He like the anti-commandant. The military holds people accountable from the top down. And yet Jesus makes unrepentant abuse victims pay for people
like Sandusky's faults.

Its counter-intuitive to the kind of thinking we operated with in the Coast Guard. And yet the military has base chaplains.

Why?!!!!!

It should be banned from military bases.

They should put statues of Judas on military bases until Jesus kills Sandusky, and keeps the girls on the Pink Cross website alive with joy until they
can overcome their behaviors that they learn from people like Sandusky.

Judas represents honesty! Integrity! Judas represents logic!

He's like the Chesty Puller of the Coast Guard.

Put Judas statues on every military base!!!

The Coast Guard wasn't about high pay. It was about logic, and service.

It's everything that Jesus opposes. Go to the Pink Cross website. Go to your local military medical hospital and look at all the whoremongers in the
psyche ward who wound up depressed engaged in behaviors promoted by free speech and Hollywood. And then look at Sandusky. He's still alive!!!! He's
not miserable!!!! He's still being protected by the Holy Spirit, but many of his victims if they were female would wind up in the porn industry.

We'll get our proverbial butts handed to us by China. If we consider ourselves Jesus by failing to act upon corrupt moral values in our Hollywood
movies, then China is Judas. We'll never even see their missiles hit Salt Lake City. Undetected.

I'm asking out of complete honesty, sincerity, and confusion. Please take no offense.

Was your post a sarcastic criticism of the thinking of Muslims? Or was it's meaning right on the surface?

No, it was sarcastic on the take of most Christians view of the Bible and Jesus.

Islam doesn't view Jesus the same way that Christians do.

Here Jesus is viewed as a logical savior who operates on the same level as the kind of logic you would expect from your chain of command in the
military unless you are being led by an adulterer.

Islamic view tends to put more emphasis on Muhammed.

Now break down the word Islam.

Is lam

Maybe you could reword this as. Is lamb. Do Muslims have the concept atonement related to a lamb? I don't know. If they do. Maybe Christians
should rethink their view of Christianity.

Go to your local Catholic church service and listen to them worship and say "Holy Spirit"

It's an obituary joke.

Holy Spear It.

It's almost as if they are making fun of Christ getting crucified.

I don't think that even Muslim mock the Crucifixion because they believe that Isah was a prophet, and so they honor him. But don't put him on the
same level as Muhammed.

Muslims show more respect that Catholic popes do.

Can you imagine Jesus having been nailed to a Cross, having to hear "Holy Spear It", given that he was speared. You have to wonder is Jesus laughing
or getting irritated with this obituary joke every single Sunday told in front of thousands of devoted Catholics at the Vatican.

Not saying that given the fact that he rewards predators with stature and sends their victims on the Pink Cross website to hell for not enduring or
repenting of behaviors they learned through no fault of their own.....that Jesus endured this unjustly as Judas hands. To me if you consider that
Sandusky is still and many of his victims according to Catholic and Mormon doctrine are burning in hell, then Jesus is just as guilty of shedding
innocent blood as Judas was.

Jesus is on par with Judas in shedding innocent blood as he lets people like Sandusky live.

It's gives you an idea of why Muslims reject Jesus as final authority, and reject Catholicism and Mormonism.

And yet despite all of this there is truth in them. Unfortunately not the church-approved truth, but truth nonetheless. The fact is that Christianity
started off with many different versions and sects. Just because some powerful men got together and decided what they wanted to be the "official"
gospels does not negate the truth and validity of the others.

Yes, actually it does, because the reason that they excluded those other texts from consideration for inclusion in the canon is that they cannot
possibly be true. Not in the whole, anyway.

As I said, if you think that a Jewish Jesus and a Gnostic "Bringer of the Gnosis" are compatible, then you have a fundamental lack of understanding
of one or both of those theologies. They are absolutely, irrefutably unreconcilable.

And it does not mean that God does not exist within the other versions of Christianity (and other religions) as well.

As the God of the Israelites (and, by extension, the God of Jesus,) is slandered and slurred in the Gnostic mythos, it is hard to claim that he would
be in support of that religion. Maybe, but I wouldn't put a lot of faith in it (har har har.)

Personally, I will take the Jesus as known in the lost gospels than the one depicted in the "approved" ones.

Frankly, the Jesus of the Gnostics pales in comparison to the Jesus of the canonical texts. In one, he is God, in another, he is a mere messenger. In
one, he teaches salvation for all who desire it, in another, salvation only for those who sit at the feet of a Gnostic master, learn the Gnosis, and
live the elitist life.

You may certainly keep posting as much as you'd care to, and my opinion is nearly valueless, but I think you're getting to be a lot less interesting
than you were at the start. I wouldn't have believed it, but I'm starting to get just a little bored.

Maybe the holy spears are about to commence spearing sundusky when they receive the command.
Perhaps you might ask the holy spears to start. Jesus chose to be on the cross and the spear stopped his long suffering.

Didn't Judas commit suicide soon after the "betrayal"? If so, how did he have time to even write a Gospel? I also question how it was so hard to
find Jesus that he needed to be "betrayed"? Jesus knew there were certain
groups of people who wanted him dead and I'm sure he saw it coming from a mile away. It's not unreasonable to
think he asked one of his followers to assist in the inevitable. It seems like a contrived later add-on to the story
that Judas betrayed Jesus for 30 pieces of silver, it doesn't really make sense in the whole context of the situation
and the aftermath. I genuinely believe this bit of the story could be an add-on later made by the Church to improve and strengthen their position.

Ah, brother adj, we live in an age where depicting a devout Jewess, Mary Magdalene, as a pagan sex priestess is taken to be gritty realism.

Do we laugh or do we cry about it?

Unfortunately, those parts are intentionally mixed in with authentic statements, invalidating the document.

Unless, of course, we unscramble the omelet. It isn't the Thomas-compiler's fault that our most complete text of his work comes to us
via a Gnostic library.

Imagine, for a moment, if the premise of Secret Mark were correct, and all that existed of the real Mark were fragments, until, say 65
years ago, when that lurid Alexandrian Gnostic full-length Mark was discovered in a cave in Egypt. (All hypothetical, of course.)

Wouldn't it be a good thing to study that Gospel, even knowing that as a document, it was corrupted? Would it really matter that it was the Jesus
Seminar who did the yeoman-work of sorting out, provisionally, what was probably authentic Jesus, what was Gnostic dogma, and what was totally fantasy
wish-fulfilment?

Seriously, I think that's our situation with respect to Thomas. I think it's important, and I don't even believe that the speaker is more than
a tzadik. I would think someone who saw him as more than a tzadik would be even more enthused than I am about pursuing this lead.

Like other posters, though, I think Thomas is exceptional in this regard. Most of what comes to us through the Gnostics appears to have
originated with the Gnostics, or what they added has thoroughly effaced whatever source they may have started with. Judas would seem to be a
purely Gnostic confection.
-

First I'd like to thank everyone for their participation, and to point out that this is the first conversation about a conspiracy with in the Bible
that nobody has gone on the defensive. Thank you for being civil.

As to tinhattribuna's comments:

I know what you mean! The whole time I'm reading it and I come to a point where large blocks of text are missing I thought to myself "oh cmon!
that's where all the good stuff is!". The missing text does seem to be very convenient, I'm not sure if I'd attribute any prospect that this was
done intentionally, but who knows.

I'll try to respond to most of the comments a little bit later, for now... duty calls.

Personally I don't think the missing text is by design, but it does play into the hands who want to spin the story around it. Although I never
thought I would say this, I'm in agreement with an article produced by the Jehovahs Witnesses which is of the opinion this is no more than a Gnostic
parody of scripture, as mentioned by a previous poster.

Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
And yet despite all of this there is truth in them.

So does the Zeitgeist films.

It's called rat poison for the soul - 99% truth, 1% lies.

It looks, tastes, and smells just like the real thing.

This has always been the modus operandi of the Deceiver... Satan's recipe: ? Take 10% truth, 20% probability, 20% possibility and mix with 50%
lies... Line a scrying bowl with some snake oil and pour in mixture. Bake over long period of time (preferably generations), and serve to gullable
public with some humor and logic. Make sure the container for the 10% truth that was added is hidden or destroyed (preferably)...and enjoy the
resulting constipation of the unwary...

Yes, actually it does, because the reason that they excluded those other texts from consideration for inclusion in the canon is that they
cannot possibly be true. Not in the whole, anyway.

The same can be said for the 4 new testament gospels.

I don't think you have actually read any of them. If you did, you would see there is truth in alot of what is said there. Gnosis is (IMHO) the closest
to what is the core religion.

The evidence of this core religion can be found by any study of comparative religion, in which the same principles, themes, and symbols are found to
be universal. While some have argued that this is mere happenstance or unconscious symbolism, the truth is far more powerful: there is universal
symbolism in religion because there is one universal religion, but whose true form and meaning is only slightly perceived by the sleeping
Consciousness of mankind. Due to this, messengers arrive from time to time to clarify the One True Religion: messengers such as Buddha, Jesus,
Mohammad, Quetzalcoatl, Krishna, Moses, Fu Ji, and many more: all of them taught Gnosis, but according to the needs of the time and place.

The concept of Gnosis is the universal to all humankind and is the essential "knowing" that arises from the experience of objective reality,
universally experienced by all those who fully awaken and develop their Consciousness. I do not claim to be fully awakened but I am trying, I want to
be and to learn. The science or path to arrive at knowing that reality for oneself, in ones own experience, is also called Gnosis, because it leads to
the acquisition of one’s own Gnosis of fundamental truth.

Gnosis is, in its essence, the method to escape suffering, because to experience fundamental reality, one must abandon the deluded mind, within which
we all suffer intensely. Our delusions cause suffering, and prevent us from seeing the truth.

When you say all this is not compatible with God, it sounds like you are stubbornly clinging to the notion of right and wrong, black and white with no
good reason.

And yes, the Hebrew God is apparently against humans having knowledge. That is why he kicked Adam and eve out of the garden of Eden. They ate the
forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge after God told them they would die if they did. Looked at from the Gnostic point of view the snake is the
"good guy" and God is the liar who tried to keep humanity in the dark. And according to Genesis, that is exactly what happened. I still don't believe
Jesus original teachings had to do with a jealous, angry, tempermental, petulant man in the sky that has nothing better to do than make humans
miserable and ignorant. God is love (a genderless love also) and love is none of those negative things. Personally, I would never even want a
relationship with the God that is portrayed in the Old testament.

But thats the beautiful thing about having free will, people are free to choose whichever truth they want. Congratulations on finding yours

Ah, brother adj, we live in an age where depicting a devout Jewess, Mary Magdalene, as a pagan sex priestess is taken to be gritty realism.

Do we laugh or do we cry about it?

I've been dabbling, off and on, with a rant against the American Episcopalian church, and I'm viewing that kind of stuff with an air of
inevitability -- right or wrong, perspectives on history are shifting, and there's not much to do to stem the tide.

Seriously, I think that's our situation with respect to Thomas. I think it's important, and I don't even believe that the speaker is more
than a tzadik. I would think someone who saw him as more than a tzadik would be even more enthused than I am about pursuing this lead.

Excellent point. Perhaps we should convene an ATS research team to go through Thomas, line by line, in an attempt to discern what's what.
Though, like the Jesus Seminar (after reading The Real Jesus, I have an overwhelming desire to refer to them as "The Jeebus Seminar", lol,) a
lot of the conclusions would likely rest on the bias of the voters... I'd chuck most of it in the "Jesus never said this" bucket, while someone who
was Gnostically inclined would be on the "That's Jesus!" side for the whole of it.

Yes, actually it does, because the reason that they excluded those other texts from consideration for inclusion in the canon is that they
cannot possibly be true. Not in the whole, anyway.

The same can be said for the 4 new testament gospels.

I don't think you have actually read any of them. If you did, you would see there is truth in alot of what is said there. Gnosis is (IMHO) the
closest to what is the core religion.

Of course I've read them.

And, unlike you, apparently, I understood them.

Judaism is not a "world religion", just another perspective on some vaguely ethereal mysteries. It is an exclusive religion, with a very
specific view of God, his characteristics and his intent, and, for Judaism, that doesn't include you, me or anyone who is not a son of Abraham.

In the New Testament, Jesus affirms that. He is not merely a Jew, he is a Rabbi, a teacher, qualified to speak in the synagogue and debate the Law
with the best of them. His teachings, which are contrary to the religious leaders of the time, but still very firmly rooted in the Law, are frequently
described as astounding his listeners for their insights.

There is nothing in the New Testament that can be reconciled with the teachings of the Gnostics, because they are two completely disparate theologies,
utterly incompatible without significantly distorting one or the other.

The concept of Gnosis is the universal to all humankind and is the essential "knowing" that arises from the experience of objective reality,
universally experienced by all those who fully awaken and develop their Consciousness. I do not claim to be fully awakened but I am trying, I want to
be and to learn. The science or path to arrive at knowing that reality for oneself, in ones own experience, is also called Gnosis, because it leads to
the acquisition of one’s own Gnosis of fundamental truth.

This may be what you think it is, and it is a common misunderstanding, which arose from the 19th Century resurrection of Gnosticism, but which has
very little in common with that which existed in the Second Century.

In Christian Gnosticism, the only thing that you need to be "awakened to" is that you need to find a Gnostic Master to teach you what the Gnosis is
-- Gnosis is not the discovery of Gnosis, it is that specific knowledge that was passed from master to student, after the student had spent enough
time at the master's feet (and filling the master's purse, of course.)

Unfortunately for you, the Gnosis couldn't be written down, and the last master with the knowledge died a very long time ago.

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