Does the Tea party want to deliberately crash the U.S. economy?+

Lets say that there is a group of people, a cabal of billionares and millionaires. They tried to get Romney elected to push their agenda and failed.
They realize that because of changing demographics and political climate, and the bad economy, it is doubtful they will get a real hold on power again
for the forseable future. Since they are the 1 percent, and own almost all the wealth in the country, an empowered populace might eventually turn its
sights on them and their wealth and begin to tax them on terms more equatable to the people as a whole, instead of favoring a small percentage of
oligarchs.

So they decide if they cannot rule over the country by political means, more strident action is needed. By instructing their bought and paid for
politicians, largely tea party politicians, but admittedly people they own on both side of the isle, to stonewall and to not resolve the crisis,they
trigger a default on the debt which crashes the economy. What effect will it have? Yes it would throw the country into chaos, people will lose life
savings, most of corporate America would go off the proverbial cliff, the dollar is likely to crash, and world financial markets will be thrown into
complete chaos. Our unemployment would skyrocket even worse than it is now, with almost NO hope of improvement, because the currency is crashed.
People who were starting to feel politically empowered now just focus shelter food and water. Yes there will be rioting and angry mobs but they will
be short lived because people will be too obscessed with just survival. How many paychecks is the average person away from disaster? You get the
picture. We are probably looking at a severe economic depression, worse than the Great depression, that will be global in scope.

But wait. These people are OBSCENELY rich. If you have 70 billion dollars and lose 50 percent of your assets, you still have 35 billion dollars. And
your enemies, the 99 percent, will be completely destroyed financially. You can now pool resources, take your still formidable wealth, and control the
ENTIRE country, which is now pretty much in ruins. Who will oppose you? The infrastructure is devastated, if not outright destroyed. The government is
in effect disintegrated. The control the financial elites have now will be magnified a thousand times.

By necessity alone, we would very quickly return to a gold standard. Guess who has all the gold?? And of course the golden rule is, those with the
gold make the rules.

Our chief economic competitor, China, will be thrown into a state of complete chaos by the default and the inability to pay back the loans, now vast,
incurred by the US. They will look like Egypt a few days into the crisis, as millions are thrown out of work.

And if in the lead up to this, those same billionaires and millionaires, have taken control of key industries, energy, food, private security firms
like black water, you can rest assured that they will have a level of power far surpassing that they would have by buying a few politicians. Now you
are a feudal lord in essence. America will become a feudal society. Only people who cooperate with the "lords" will be able to survive, because they
are the only ones in possession of the means to do so. Also, they can now buy up vast swaths of the country at fire sale prices. Then they will pretty
much own EVERYTHING.

The conversion from a democratic republic to a Feudal fascist oligarchy would be complete.

They probably see a need for a controlled crash the same as the Republicans do. The Dems want to feed the unreal frenzy till it blows. The economy
needs a major correction, there is no way that this screwed up economy can survive because our economy is like a raw egg being tossed around by drunk
people.

No, the tea-party wants to help the national debt and get rid of obama-care. Obama-care is something that a lot of people are for until they are
explained exactly how costly, and crappy the whole thing is.

Who is being stubborn about a concept ( obama-care ) that will gut the nation anyways? Who is not willing to budge on their spending habits which is
driving our nations credit up?

The democrats refuse to make changes for the better, how do you twist this so much and point at the other people that are standing up, at least a
little, FOR the people?

No, the tea-party wants to help the national debt and get rid of obama-care. Obama-care is something that a lot of people are for until they are
explained exactly how costly, and crappy the whole thing is.

Who is being stubborn about a concept ( obama-care ) that will gut the nation anyways? Who is not willing to budge on their spending habits which is
driving our nations credit up?

The democrats refuse to make changes for the better, how do you twist this so much and point at the other people that are standing up, at least a
little, FOR the people?

the people already stood up in the election last year...if they wanted to get rid of Obamacare they would have voted for Romney, and vote to make the
senate republican controlled...but, the republicans don't care how the majority of people voted, because they didn't get their way. so now they want
to damage the economy and make millions of people suffer...I guess that whole constitution, freedom thing that I here all the right-wingers rave about
is just another lie.

the people already stood up in the election last year...if they wanted to get rid of Obamacare they would have voted for Romney, and vote to make the
senate republican controlled...but, the republicans don't care how the majority of people voted, because they didn't get their way. so now they want
to damage the economy and make millions of people suffer...I guess that whole constitution, freedom thing that I here all the right-wingers rave about
is just another lie.

It's about what comes out of the woodworks, it's about what people are finding out now. Sure, I heard tons of people say " Yay! Healthcare like
Canada has!" but the more they realize it's nothing even close, the fewer people that want it.

There's threads across ATS about how expensive it is, how our health information isn't secure, there's plenty of news stories about how many
glitches there are, there's plenty of other sources that show how this will hike up insurance costs for everyone, and overall be bad.

People tend to be nonchalant, therefore might not even have an opinion, or have an opinion based on who they voted for, or previous decisions -
psychologically we tend to continue making decisions that reinforce previous decisions, otherwise we'd have to admit we are wrong. Look it up.

I have a couple questions for you that I know you won't answer directly.

The GOP has introduced 3 very fair compromises for the budget, one of those being that everyone is required to sign up for Obamacare, not just
us, the people; Obama said no (to all 3 in fact).
1.Why wouldn't Obama or congress want the ACA for themselves, since it's so great?

2.Why are you blaming the GOP when Obama is not negotiating AT ALL, in addition, if the American people don't want Obamacare, and the GOP is trying to
defund it, are you saying Obama should go against the will of the people?

The fact is that the ACA is one step forward and two steps back, it's time to defund and start over with health care reform, because theres no fixing
the monstrosity that is the ACA.

Lets say that there is a group of people, a cabal of billionares and millionaires.

Im gonna stop you right there.

You mean Democrats and Republicans in office, right?

To determine the richest lawmakers, Roll Call adds up the minimum value of total assets reported by each Member on their annual financial
disclosures and subtracts the minimum liabilities. Percent change refers to the change since last year's disclosure forms.

wants government to be kept from meddleing in the minutia affairs of the populace

pretty much like Libertarians want intrusive government policies out of our lives

i love the guy on CNBC, the daily Stock Market reporting station, who is the only realist on the BS, forever UP stock market
pundits....yep...www.cnbc.com...

Rick Santelli is a breath of fresh air in the whole corrupt (finacial system)and accomodative MSM (for Wall Street) that is pro-corruption... except
for Mr Santelli who is a stalwart fotrthe Tea Party cause

First off, why would the TEA, which stands for Taxed Enough Already and are Constitutionalist, want to bring about an Oligarchy?

Second, the House has revised their CR many times since this whole thing has started . . . "defunding Obamacare" isn't even part of it anymore (which
the President said was non-negotiable) and the President still won't negotiate. So, if anyone should be looked at for "deliberately wanting to crash
the economy" . . . it should be the one that continues to throw a tantrum in the press and refuses to cooperate, it should be the one that wants his
way and nothing else . . . the President.

Third, defaulting on paybacks will not "crash the economy". That is nothing more than administration scare tactics, propped up by their supporters in
the press. If the U.S. defaults, we simply lose our AAA rating with Moody's. Basically, our credit score goes down. It means our interest rates go
up. It means other countries stop buying up our debt. That is all. Some may try to dump the debt (bonds) they hold, but if no one is buying . . .
they are stuck with it. There is no doomsday scenario, so stop listening to the President and the lapdogs at MSNBC.

It's also obvious that you get your information about the TEA Party from the news . . . They aren't a collection of billionaires and corporate fat
cats. This was a collection of people who were tired of the waste and abuses Washington dishes out to the American people. It was a grass-roots
movement, exemplified by their use of the "Don't Tread on Me" flag from Revolutionary times. The movement is made up of average Americans who are
tired of the status quo in Washington. While there are politicians that have capitalized on the movement, by seeking their endorsement and promising
to represent their ideas . . . it's not an organized party that is funded by corporate sponsors. It's the reason why there is no actual "party".

You can point to the fact that the politicians that were endorsed by the TEA party are rich . . . but, every politician is rich. That is a major
problem . . . Nobody that can win a seat in Washington is an "average" American. The TEA Party endorsed politicians still get their backing from
(based on their conservative moral beliefs) the RNC and it's backers.

The Tea Party is a grassroots movement that calls awareness to any issue which challenges the security, sovereignty, or domestic tranquility of
our beloved nation, the United States of America. From our founding, the Tea Party represents the voice of the true owners of the United States: WE
THE PEOPLE.

The Tea Party includes those who possess a strong belief in the foundational Judeo-Christian values embedded in our great founding documents. We
believe the responsibility of our beloved nation is etched upon the hearts of true American Patriots from every race, religion, national origin, and
walk of life sharing a common belief in the values which made and keep our beloved nation great. This belief led to the creation of the modern-day Tea
Party.

Many Republicans, Democrats, Libertarians, and Independents identify with the premises set forth by the Tea Party Movement, which is striking a chord
and ringing true with the American Spirit.

15 Non-negotiable core beliefs:
1. Illegal aliens are here illegally.
2. Pro-domestic employment is indispensable.
3. A strong military is essential.
4. Special interests must be eliminated.
5. Gun ownership is sacred.
6. Government must be downsized.
7. The national budget must be balanced.
8. Deficit spending must end.
9. Bailout and stimulus plans are illegal.
10. Reducing personal income taxes is a must.
11. Reducing business income taxes is mandatory.
12. Political offices must be available to average citizens.
13. Intrusive government must be stopped.
14. English as our core language is required.
15. Traditional family values are encouraged.

The reason for all of the rhetoric and vitriol against them is due to nothing more than they are upsetting the apple cart . . . challenging the status
quo . . . threatening the existing power structure of the two party system.

BTW - I'm a libertarian, but I'm not a TEA party member . . . as I disagree with a few of their core beliefs. However, they are not as they are
portrayed in the media and by the Progressive Left and Old Guard Republicans.

No, the tea-party wants to help the national debt and get rid of obama-care. Obama-care is something that a lot of people are for until they are
explained exactly how costly, and crappy the whole thing is.

Who is being stubborn about a concept ( obama-care ) that will gut the nation anyways? Who is not willing to budge on their spending habits which is
driving our nations credit up?

The democrats refuse to make changes for the better, how do you twist this so much and point at the other people that are standing up, at least a
little, FOR the people?

Obamacare is also the law of the land. It's not as expensive as your post claims, it's helping people already. Obama was re-elected last year and
the Democrats not just held the Senate but increased their presence there. And also in the House of Representatives. Obamacare has also passed the
Supreme Court! So for the Tea Party - which is now extremely unpopular and sinking lower by the day - to claim that it's acting in the best interests
of the USA is a) to miss the point and b) undemocratic.

No, the tea-party wants to help the national debt and get rid of obama-care. Obama-care is something that a lot of people are for until they are
explained exactly how costly, and crappy the whole thing is.

Who is being stubborn about a concept ( obama-care ) that will gut the nation anyways? Who is not willing to budge on their spending habits which is
driving our nations credit up?

The democrats refuse to make changes for the better, how do you twist this so much and point at the other people that are standing up, at least a
little, FOR the people?

this isn't the rush Limbaugh show...go back and look at each year Obama has been in office...the facts show that each year the deficit is being
cut...and of course since you can't remember back 7 months ago...there was a sequester that cut approx. 10% of government...so it doesn't matter a
damn bit what Obama agrees to...republicans will keep lieing about it. thinkprogress.org...

oh, and here are corporations that paid less in federal taxes than you did. www.ctj.org...
funny how republicans never discuss these welfare queens that make billions in profits, but the taxpayer pays for their welfare subsidies.

let's make sure that the CEO's get paid enough to buy their next yacht, but those poor people that get food stamps are scum of the earth, and need
to starve...isn't that right, you republicans?

No, the tea-party wants to help the national debt and get rid of obama-care. Obama-care is something that a lot of people are for until they are
explained exactly how costly, and crappy the whole thing is.

Who is being stubborn about a concept ( obama-care ) that will gut the nation anyways? Who is not willing to budge on their spending habits which is
driving our nations credit up?

The democrats refuse to make changes for the better, how do you twist this so much and point at the other people that are standing up, at least a
little, FOR the people?

Obamacare is also the law of the land. It's not as expensive as your post claims, it's helping people already. Obama was re-elected last year and
the Democrats not just held the Senate but increased their presence there. And also in the House of Representatives. Obamacare has also passed the
Supreme Court! So for the Tea Party - which is now extremely unpopular and sinking lower by the day - to claim that it's acting in the best interests
of the USA is a) to miss the point and b) undemocratic.

What?

Undemocratic?

Obamacare hasnt helped me or anyone I know.

And...

We now know Obamacare was tax legislation. Consequently, it was undeniably a “bill for raising revenue,” for which the Constitution mandates
compliance with the Origination Clause (Art. I, Sec. 7). The Clause requires that tax bills must originate in the House of Representatives. Obamacare
did not.

Please tell me why on Earth Obama should negotiate with a fraction of the Republican Party that is increasingly delusional and which cannot be
trusted? Boehner has lost control of his party and is the worst Speaker in the history of the position. He's a walking talking joke. And can I also
point out that blackmail is not a good negotiating position?

Right. Ok. Let me point something out to you. Prior to Obamacare the USA was the only First World country that didn't have proper healthcare. The
only one. Think about that for a moment. And if you're not ashamed of that fact then there's something wrong with you.

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