Are the police taking over CA?

Legislators have just involved themselves in professional sports. A bill was passed in the Assembly Thursday requiring all owners of all professional stadiums and sports arenas to post signs displaying the text message number and phone number to contact arena security in order to report a violent act.

Whatever, right?

But the bill started out as something very different.

AB2464 by Assemblyman Mike Gatto, D-Silver Lake, originally would have required stadiums and arenas to develop and maintain a list of individuals to be excluded or ejected from all professional sports arenas if they had been involved in a “violent act” at an arena or stadium.

Before being amended, the bill stated, “the banned persons list may include any person
whose presence in a professional sports arena is determined by the courts to pose a threat to the well-being and safety of those in attendance at professional sporting events.”

How creepy–especially in this era of very subjective ideas of “violence.” Daring to question a cop in many cases can bring about an arrest.

And, the bill was far too broad in its inclusion of nearly every serious felony including a special section just on child and sexual offendser.

Perhaps one of the most disturbing aspects of the bill was it would have allowed a list of the addresses of the banned persons to be published. The bill’s analysis said, “The banned
persons list would be name-based, not biometric, and therefore there would be no definitive way to identify a person on the list. This could leave the DOJ open to litigation were the wrong person may be banned from sports arenas because he or she has the same name or is similar in appearance to a banned person.

Ironically, the Assembly just passed a bill yesterday that will allow public safety professionals to keep their property addresses hidden from the public.

Both bills were sponsored by the California Police Chiefs Association, a group that is becoming more and more aggressive about increasing police authority, and lessening the rights of private citizens.

Fortunately, AB 2464 was so bad, it was dramatically amended and became just a nuisance bill for arena and stadium owners, with the signage requirement.

But, the reason I point this bill out is because I want people to see the kind of personal rights violations and liberty reducing legislation lawmakers think is a good idea. Here is the bill, in its original form, as well as the original legislative analysis pointing out the gross flaws and legal issues.

59 comments

This is the slippery slope that I’ve been telling you about, Katy. I showed you a video where a cop literally executed an innocent man on a Seattle sidewalk and walked away without any prosecution or judicial oversight. How much more in terms of ‘egregious behavior’ do you need? You will see more and more of this. IMO it is because the overlords know that the economy will collapse and martial law will be implemented. You can’t go right from a ‘free society’ into martial law. It wouldn’t work. But when you gradually desensitize a population of people it’s not as difficult to do. TSA gropedowns are now making sense, aren’t they? This doesn’t require much analyses. And it’s certainly not tinfoil either. I am only looking at all of our civil rights that have dismantled in the last 5 years. All of this has rhyme and reason. You just need to open your eyes and see it.

I know Beelzebub. I have only defended some of the individual good cops out there. Sacramento is fortunate to have one of the good guys in our police chief — very unusual in today’s political climate. Our last couple of chiefs were despicable, agenda-driven monsters.

The “slippery slope” in this state and nation decended into a “Gulag” starting in the late 1980’s. Here in the good old U.S. we have 5% of the worlds population yet we drop into our modern dungeons over 75% of the worlds prisoners. Anyone with a California education can understand that the number of humans we put behind bars is obscene.

We are a police state for sure, and it is becoming more authoritarian by the years.

“Anyone with a California education can understand that the number of humans we put behind bars is obscene”

The system encourages crime. Most crime is over money or drugs. Look at the war on drugs. The opportunity for profit in the drug trade (even for a mere street dealer) is enormous. A poor man is likely to take that risk. And when he’s arrested 2 more poor men jump in to take his place. The United States government has fueled the drug wars. It keeps the cartels and the street dealers in business. And it keeps the profits pouring in to the police agencies as well with seized assets. Everybody wins except for the common law-abiding citizen who gets screwed again.

The CA Police Chief’s Association is why no one but the good friends of, or political contributors to a Sheriff can get a carry permit (CCW)in CA so that they can actually be in a position to defend themselves when out and about. This is all about control, control of regular citizens and the continued criminalizing of any action that dares question a CA LEO. LEO’s look at everyone as either a criminal, or one who just hasn’t been caught yet. There are other states (NY, NJ) where this attitude prevails, but CA is right up there at the top when it comes to this stuff. We are on the edge of an total police state and it won’t take much for it fully develop. Study pre-WW II Germany and see how fast it happened.
People are just too willing here in CA to give up freedom for -the illusion of – safety. Not all are necessarily bad, but I won’t “roll the dice anymore”. The police are no longer our friends.

Now you’ve gone and done it. You got me started on the American Police State. Police agencies are taking over the entire country, not just Cali. We really do live in an Orwellian society. Increasingly it’s 1984 meets Animal Farm. Public Officials and their unionized minions are more equal than the common folk. This article points to an alarming pattern across the nation. The end game here is no privacy or rights for ordinary citizens and generous privacy and privelege for the overlords and their flunky’s, especially the fascisti in blue. First they convert our rights into priveleges, then they revoke the priveleges.

There are numerous examples of police brutality and legalized murder to be found on the internet if you want to look. The Kelly Thomas incident in Fullerton shows how local officials circle the wagons and cover up outrageous police violence. The Fed’s do the same thing all the time. Think Ruby Ridge and the Waco massacre.

Right now Eric “Bloody Hands” Holder and his Injustice Department are covering up the BATFE scandal “Fast and Furious”, in which the Obushma Administration allowed thousands of semi-auto rifles and grenade parts to be smuggled to Mexican drug cartels. Some of those weapons were used to kill a Border Patrol agent and a DEA agent. No matter, the mainstream infotainment industry could care less.

The Indiana Supreme Court ruled last year that citizens can’t repel illegal police invasion of their homes with force, no matter how illegal the entry. So in Indiana, a cop could break into a womans house and rape her and she has no legal right to resist. The Court said that citizen resistance would just escalate the violence and cops might get hurt. Then they said that useing force wasn’t necessary because you could always sue them. No kidding!

If a Florida cop had shot Trayvon Martin instead of George Zimmerman would we even be able to find out the cops name? It would have been yesterdays news in a heartbeat if it was news at all. The L.A. County Sheriff just “disciplined” some of his deputies for belonging to a secret cop gang of thugs. The punishment? Time off with pay! That will show them.

I could go on but you get the picture. The sheeple don’t care. They graze contendedly, chewing their cuds and bleating plaintively. Most of my neighbors are too busy buying stuff they can’t afford or making sure the illegal alien pool boy gets the PH just right so their eyes don’t sting.

Sometimes even I am amazed at how oblivious people are. H.L. Mencken was right. No one ever lost money underestimating the intelligence (or the subservience) of the American public.

Oh yes, Chief. I have studied it with a fine toothed comb. You are very correct. When it starts to happen is happens with lightening speed.

That’s why I warned about the “slippery slope” that you currently see in operation. All it will take is a bank run or the bond markets to blow up for total martial law. That’s when things get interesting.

“If a Florida cop had shot Trayvon Martin instead of George Zimmerman would we even be able to find out the cops name?”

GZ is being framed. All the recently released evidence shows that. If you read my previous posts on this subject you would understand that I was totally accurate from the very start. GZ is a political prisoner. Mob rule threw him in jail and got him charged. I will go one step further. Had GZ been black or had Trayvon been white – none of this would be happening today. All the top-notched defense attorneys like Dershowitz understand the truth. The special prosecutor was ordered to use kangeroo court tactics to get GZ. And now the Feds are gearing up to charge him with “hate crimes” HAH! as soon as the State of Florida is ordered to dismiss all charges against GZ. This is an obvious case of self-defense. And I don’t like GZ. I think he’s an idiot. But he is allowed the same protections under the law as I am. He’s not being prosecuted. He’s being PERSECUTED!!!

Yes, Zimmerman is an imprudent man but probably not a murderer. The current regime and it’s race hustler co-conspirators are just using this to gin up racial discord and get out the all important black vote for the Community Organizer In Chief’s inevitable re-election. Poor George. He will end up getting ground to mince meat so Obama can get a few thousand more votes. Can’t you just see the supremely arrogant smirk on Obama’s face. Makes my blood boil.

Don’t be so quick with your judgment. Do you know that he has already received hundreds of thousands of dollar in donations from concerned citizens? Do you know that when this is over and done with that he has an excellent case against certain media organizations for intentionally editing the text of 911 tapes to make him appear to be a racist? I mean the misinformation and outright lies that were perpetrated by the media in order to make GZ appear to be a guilty man before he was ever charged? He might even have a case against the prosecutor for failing to include exculpatory evidence in her submission of court documents with PC to charge him with 2nd degree murder. All the physcial evidence released so far coincides with GZ’s story. There is even a witness who says TM was on top of GZ beating him. Naturally none of the mainstream media boys are talking about that. Imagine if there was a witness who said that GZ was on top of TM when he shot him. Do you think they would be talking about that on CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, CBS and in all the mainstream newspapers??? When our justice system goes sideways and begins to charge innocent men of heinous crimes this nation is in big trouble. Oh, and now that we find out that there was THC in TM’s system I understand why Obama said “If I had a son he’d look like Trayvon”

This is an obvious case of self-defense. And I don’t like GZ. I think he’s an idiot. But he is allowed the same protections under the law as I am. He’s not being prosecuted. He’s being PERSECUTED!!!

Beels, it is not an OBVIOUS case of self defense.

As I have said before, GZ set this DEADLY ball in motion by carrying a deadly weapon without self control, and trying to play cowboy, he may not be guilty of 1st or 2nd murder, but I would have NO PROBLEM throwing him in the slammer for 5-10 on 3rd/manslaughter.

“As I have said before, GZ set this DEADLY ball in motion by carrying a deadly weapon without self control, and trying to play cowboy, he may not be guilty of 1st or 2nd murder, but I would have NO PROBLEM throwing him in the slammer for 5-10 on 3rd/manslaughter”

You’re not paying attention, rex. I’ll say it again.

GZ has a permit to carry in the State of Florida. He was allowed by law to carry a gun. He was allowed by law to act as a watchman for his community. This was an organized neighborhood watch. Not something GZ dreamt up. It was organized due to a rash or residential burglaries. Once TM knocked GZ to the ground, mounted him and started slamming his head into the concrete GZ had every reason to fear for his life. And all the physical evidence corroborates GZ’s story. Plus, there is a witness who SAW TM on top of GZ beating him. That is included in the police report. The attack took place as GZ was retracing his path back to his truck following the 911 call. The 911 operator specifically asked GZ what direction TM ran in. That is when GZ walked in the direction where he last saw TM to see which way he went. He was not chasing TM. The 911 operator did not tell GZ to stay in his truck. When he was walking back to his truck GZ was confronted by TM. That is when the fight broke out. If you walk past my residence and I follow you up the street because you look suspicious to me then turn around and begin to walk back – and you confront me and whoop my butt – you are going to jail for assault. If you knock me to the ground and start viciously beating me to such a point that I fear for my life and I am carrying a weapon with a CCW and I terminate you – I am protected by law under the self-defense statutes.

GZ has a permit to carry in the State of Florida. He was allowed by law to carry a gun.

So what-he has a CCW. Big deal. He cannot carry a deadly weapon and then go looking for trouble, which in my mind he did, that is setting a deadly encounter in motion. He was NEGLIGENT and negligent homicide is an easy call for me.

If you walk past my residence and I follow you up the street because you look suspicious to me then turn around and begin to walk back – and you confront me and whoop my butt – you are going to jail for assault.

If I walk past your residence and I have done NOTHING wrong, just walking to a friends house, and you follow me, then confront me, then claim I am “suspicious” and then start a fight with me and I start whopping your butt you have NO legal right to pull out a gun and kill. Now thats teh law!

“He cannot carry a deadly weapon and then go looking for trouble, which in my mind he did, that is setting a deadly encounter in motion”

He was doing NOTHING illegal. Is an armed Pinkerton Guard at the shopping center who is there to look for trouble violating any laws??? Of course not. The neighborhood watch program was totally legitimate. GZ broke no law. If I thought you looked suspicious as you walked past my place and I followed you – would I be breaking a law? Answer: No. And would I be responsible if you saw me follow you and you turned around and broke my nose??? Answer: No. YOU would be responsible. Why aren’t you thinking clearly on this one, rex?

“If I walk past your residence and I have done NOTHING wrong, just walking to a friends house, and you follow me, then confront me, then claim I am “suspicious” and then start a fight with me and I start whopping your butt you have NO legal right to pull out a gun and kill. Now thats teh law!”

GZ never confronted TM, rex. There were NO WORDS EXCHANGED until TM followed GZ as he walked back to his truck and confronted GZ. That is where you are wrong on the facts. GZ never told TM that he was ‘suspicious’. He told the 911 operator that. There was always a great distance between GZ and TM until TM returned and confronted GZ. These are all facts, rex. Why do you deny them? In fact, during the 911 call GZ told the 911 operator that TM was running away. GZ never RAN after TM. He walked after him to try to get a better location for the 911 operator.

Please reply to all the FACTS that I am listing, rex. Don’t just take out one or two sentences. If we are going to debate this – let’s do it fairly.

The bottom line here is that if a man has you pinned to the ground and he is viciously beating you with your head bouncing off the concrete and you feel that your life is under threat – you have every right to use LETHAL force to stop him and to protect yourself. BY LAW you do not have to let him kill you. BY LAW you can apply lethal force.

That is the law of self-defense. That is over and above the ‘Stand Your Ground’ provision in Florida law.

This, in conjunction will my previous posts shown above, give the reasons that GZ should not be charged with any sort of crime related to homicide. It is a travesty of justice that he is charged with a homicide crime and all Americans should be outraged that he is!

Using Waco or Ruby Ridge to support the wild eyes argument that the U.S. has “descended into a police state” is the kind of thing that belongs on a blog like “Above Top Secret” or the one that nut Lew Rockwell runs.

There is no police state in the U.S. Compared to nearly any other nation you can name, our federal agencies have very few and quite limited police powers. State authorized police, whether working for the state itself or one of its political subdivisions, end up handling the untidy circumstances that occur when people confuse ordered liberty with personal license or, more importantly, when we close down the mental health facilities and criminalize mental illness.

Come to think of it, the criminalization of mental illness may be one of the reasons so many of the posters at ATC or Lew Rockwell fear the police.

“There is no police state in the U.S. Compared to nearly any other nation you can name…..’

Wow SKdog, it is you that needs the “detox.” As a nation we have only 5% of the worlds population, yet we have 75% of the prisoners. Expalin how that is not a police state my costume jewelry wearing friend with the huge RAGWUS pension?

We are in SERIOUS trouble, and on the brink of financial collapse that seems almost purposely orchestrated! I am much like you, tend to be Independent , yet do others realize that we are headed in a very wrong direction, in the past year of watching new legislation enacted that sharply curtails our Constitutional liberties and freedoms (Obama just signed H.R. 347 into law on March 8 – the “anti protest bill”! Really? In very many cases it is now ILLEGAL to PROTEST – in AMERICA! That is downright scary, and it’s only one of many such assaults on our freedom.) It seems the whole nation is filled with people who want the Federal Govt to “GIVE” them money for whatever they want or need. This should not be the role of the Fed Govt!!! We have all been conditioned to believe they have the power to give us what we want, but they are not supposed to be involved in stealing money from everyone and redistributing it to others! This hasn’t helped us at all. And yes, you can show photos of starving people, and our heartstrings are touched, but it is a fallacy to think we can take money we don’t have and send it off to any other countries or even our own RAGWUS feeders when we are about to go bankrupt ourselves.
The police state will evetually fall under its own weight, but many a good citizen will be murdered in its wake!

@skippingdog – go right on believing that we are not devolving into a police state. Are you a LEO or a wannabe? People tazered for non-compliance or mouthing off, beaten, shot, etc., every day. Fullerton CA ring a bell? Scan the news: are you blind? Affirmative action, lowered standards, combat vets operating like their dealing with the enemy, not a CITIZEN. It is not as far as you think between where we are now to where Germany was in 1934. Try reading “They thought they were free-The Germans” it might open your eyes. Believe me as fire-rescue/EMS for many years I worked with state and local cops who didn’t need much encouragement to get wound up. It’s getting worse every day and I just don’t see things changing for the better. But hey call me a pessimist. Just saying.

“The police state will evetually fall under its own weight, but many a good citizen will be murdered in its wake!”

Our beloved Founding Fathers, in all their wisdom, created the 2nd Amendment, Mr. Donkey. Few nations in the world have such a thing. I believe our Founding Fathers could see into the future and knew all about the weaknesses inherent in our system and wanted to level the playing field. Some foreign governments don’t think twice about confiscating bank accounts and private assets from their citizens to shore up their national treasures. They would have a hard time doing that here. I guess they could intentionally implement hyperinflation and do it in a roundabout way – but it wouldn’t take people too long to catch on. There are built-in protections that our Founding Fathers designed into our system. I believe we are on the cusp of a major clash generated through economics. There are 2 ways we could go. Either we turn the ship around and restore the freedoms that made America great – or we turn into Stalinesque nightmare that could only have a very bad ending. For the sake of the kids I sure hope we take the former route.

As even someone who probably could not get hired to do anything more than drive the ambulance and hang out with real firefighters should know, “chief”, individual instances of misconduct – even if they are criminal – don’t support the vast stretch necessary to reach the conclusion that we are a police state.

In 1934, Germany knew exactly where it was. It was reeling from a lost war, confiscatory reparations, and a global economic depression. There were competing bands of armed and uniformed private militia armies fighting for power, of which the National Socialists were only one of many.

It’s the 2nd Amendment nuts like Beelzebub who fantasize about that kind of torch-lit future for their own version of Amerika. Fortunately, we’ve seen how quickly such dangerous groups can be effectively neutralized by either coordinated law enforcement or small military units. Unless you’ve got a steady supply of combat grade weapons and equipment being financed by drug lords or a foreign power, no “Second Amendment Militia” is going to last or survive more than a few days in open conflict. If they ARE being supported by drug lords or a foreign power, they’re truly traitors anyway and will justly deserve the full force of our government to stamp out their treason.

I see that arrests were made in the murders of the two chinese national students at USC. Both shot to death while sitting in their car. Where are Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton? Oh wait! I forgot. The victims were chinese and the killer(s) was probably black. No rally needed. Let’s just move on. Besides, if Obama had a son(s)he’d probably look like the killer(s). Why no comment from Obama??? hmmm???

You might want to do a little reading about post WWI Germany, The Weimar Republic and the Great Depression before you start making foolish comparisons, chief.

The German people knew exactly what they were doing in the 1930’s, and that was selecting a “Strong Man” who could ride in and fix everything that was wrong with their country. It’s the same emotional need that our “conservative” groups have today; they are all wishing for the strong man (Daddy) on the white horse to ride in and make things all warm and good again, just like when they were children.

“The German people knew exactly what they were doing in the 1930′s, and that was selecting a “Strong Man” who could ride in and fix everything that was wrong with their country”

If you were eating rats and using a wheel barrow to cart your money to the grocery store to buy your weekly allotment of food you’d elect a “Strong Man” too, Mr. history professor! heh.

I bet if the current administration supported cutting your fat pensions in half you’d want to oust him and replace him with a “Strong Man” to keep the sugar flowing in, wouldn’t you, Mr. history professor. heh.

The dems in office today, to include Obama and Clown, are both bought-off political harlots who are more interested in their own political expedience and power than they are the interests of the American people. Look at all the lies we are told by both. Bogus budgets and spending deficits is all they know. Keep supplying the sugar to their underling mac daddies. That’s what it’s all about. Shove the nation right off the edge of the proverbial cliff in the name of political expedience and power!!! heh.

If we were anywhere near the circumstances of Weimar in the early 1930’s, I suppose you and the chief might have a point. The fact is we are not. We are not paying war reparations that exceed our GDP, our currency is not inflating at a rate approaching 100% per week, our industries are not crippled, and we remain the primary economic engine for the entire world.

California itself, for all of our faults and previous mismanagement, has a Gross State Product that exceeds over half of the G-8 nations that met this week to determine the economic course of the developed world.

When people like you start talking about “Second Amendment solutions,” what you are really doing is wishing for the days of uniformed militias who have leaders dedicated to the overthrow of the lawful government, much the way the National Socialists gained power in Weimar Germany. That’s neither patriotic nor enlightened.

SKdog wrote: “California itself, for all of our faults and previous mismanagement, has a Gross State Product that exceeds over half of the G-8 nations that met this week to determine the economic course of the developed world.”

With that said SKdog, the economic power of California is finite and fluid, it is in no way a perpetual motion money making machine for you RAGWUS members. The RAGWUS feeders have taken the wind out of the sails of this state. Once the envy of every capitalitic entity of the world our state is a shinning example of what socialistic bureacracies can do to a thriving economy. As the spiral becomes tighter California’s demise will quicken and the “parasitic feeding class” of RAGWUS members will all claim that they never saw a collapse coming, all the while chanting “you owe us never ending pay, benefits, pensions, and perks.”

“If we were anywhere near the circumstances of Weimar in the early 1930′s, I suppose you and the chief might have a point”

And where did I say we were?? I merely pointed out an ignorant statement that you made about the German people. You blamed them for electing a “Strong Man”. Many were dying of malnutrition. The Deutsch Mark was virtually worthless. If you were in their shoes you’d vote for a Hitler too. And you would vote twice if they let you. Stop making judgment calls without doing a historical analyses, Mr. history professor. heh.

“California itself, for all of our faults and previous mismanagement, has a Gross State Product that exceeds over half of the G-8 nations that met this week to determine the economic course of the developed world”

38 million people live here, you fool. And you are failing to acknowledge that massive amounts of debt and government spending are fueling whatever gross state product exists in California. That’s why we are currently $17B in debt – a number that is destined to go much higher in the next 6 mos. Any society run by liberals is destined to collapse. World history proves that.

“When people like you start talking about “Second Amendment solutions,” what you are really doing is wishing for the days of uniformed militias who have leaders dedicated to the overthrow of the lawful government, much the way the National Socialists gained power in Weimar Germany”

I am not wishing for anything. I am simply tell you what “is”. If people are repeatedly exploited and used as ATM machines for the oligarchs to the detriment of their families – sooner or later they are going to fight back. World history tells us that. And when the populus is armed it creates a huge problem for the oligarchs. Those are facts. Stuff some of that in your pipe and inhale! heh.

“You will be taken care of by government. They need productive people to revenue the total mess!”

The leeches are being rewarded while the productive man is being punished.

Sorry, that’s a losing proposition. The productive man will move and build a nest in some other location where he is treated with respect.

It’s no big shocker why California is revenue challenged when other troubled states are made some headway in the last year or so. When you reward leeches and punish productivity it’s ALWAYS going to bite you in the end.

Reminder: We have 12% of the nation’s population and 33% of the nation’s welfare population in California.

We have about 14,000 state workers with $100,000 plus pensions and about 20,000 state workers with pensions between $75,000 and $100,000.

The last two paragraphs above explain much of California’s problem and nothing is being done to address either revenue buster.

Correction on those previous numbers I posted. CalPers alone has 14,000 retirees collecting $100,000 or more in pensions. So that doesn’t count all the others under other retirement plans throughout the state that collect more than $100,000.

And the 20,000 retirees who collect between $75,000 and $100,000 are only from CalSTRS.

Not sure how many CalPers retirees collect between $75,000 and $100,000 but it must be enormous – like in the 50,000 – 100,000 range.

Now tack on all the county and city workers in the state who get $100,000 or greater pensions – and it’s mind-boggling.

And what really cracks me up is that most have truly convinced themselves that they really deserve it!!! As a matter of fact, most would probably tell you that they deserved even more!!! They have no clue what real work is!!! It just goes to show what a distorted system and set of rules that we live under.

I just love it when you and Donkey start getting spittle all over your screens while you’re replying to some comment by me or another rational individual.

If you’re not trying to compare current economic and social conditions in the U.S. with Weimar, then quit making the comparison. It’s very simple.

If you’re not serious about promoting an armed insurrection against our legally instituted government and our laws, quit promoting your “Second Amendment Solution” nonsense as a viable option. Again, very simple.

CalPERS, CalSTRS, and the 1938 Retirement systems throughout California have current values that total more than $400 billion. Even if that amount is only 70%-80% of the total obligations due over the next three decades, it’s wise to remember that we are at the bottom of a highly inflated economic cycle right now. Unless you are under the delusion that not only the U.S. but the rest of the world’s advanced economies are entering a 30 year depression, there’s nothing to support your claims of impending doom.

Why would you even bring the ‘armed insurrection against our legally instituted government’ into this discussion? Is that what you want? I merely stated a fact. That our Founding Fathers, in all their wisdom, created the 2nd Amendment as a safeguard for the American people. Are you anti-Founding Fathers and an enemy of the US Constitution? Man-up and tell us how you really feel! heh.

“CalPERS, CalSTRS, and the 1938 Retirement systems throughout California have current values that total more than $400 billion”

CalPERS alone has over a half billion dollars of unfunded liabilities. 70%-80% of total obligations??? HAH! Try 40%-50%.

“Unless you are under the delusion that not only the U.S. but the rest of the world’s advanced economies are entering a 30 year depression, there’s nothing to support your claims of impending doom”

It won’t take a 30 year depression to blow up your pensions. All it will take is Greece pulling out of the EU, tossing the euro into the crapper and defaulting on their loans from the bank. That will be the start – because Italy, Portugal, Spain and Ireland are on deck. heh. That happens and your pensions will get cut off at the knees. Mark my words. All it will take is ONE MAJOR ECONOMIC EVENT to set it off. Another Lehman Bros. collapse and you are screwed!!! HAH!

SKdog, the $400 billion you are so proud of can disappear overnight. Just where have you been the last five years? Your God Obama has spent over $5 trillion, and he has no intensions of slowing down. It seems as if your God is intent on distroying the dollar, so don’t put too much faith in all the loot your RAGWUS has stolen from the hard working taxpayers.

We have so many laws and regulations to control the swap meet visitors, red necks, fly over people, cammie militia members, business owners, lemonade stand vendors, American flag flyers, cross monument installers, miners, forest axe men, swamp people, faith based citizens and farmers we just have to lead the world in illegal activities.

Ulysses Uhaul, so then the question. Are we a police state? Or as SKdog espouses,”There is no police state in the U.S. Compared to nearly any other nation you can name, our federal agencies have very few and quite limited police powers.”

It is his belief that the police have “limited police powers” that I find disturbing. Anytime a citizen comes in contact with one of our esteemed folks in blue the life of the citizen hangs by a thread.

US citizens can practically get arrested and jailed for flatuating in F Major instead of in C Sharp.

Yet illegal foreigners can violate US Immigration laws at will, infiltrate our neighborhoods, consume $20B in Ca taxdollars annually and abscond w/ over $4B annually in child tax credits w/ their ITIN numbers. Yet the large majority are not held to the same ‘rule of law’ accountability as American born citizens are. heh.

You are correct OCO. The trough feeders that are supposed to enforce our laws do little to nothing to remove the costs of illegal immigration from our state. It is clear to this citizen that the only heavy work any government worker ever does is when they pick up their bloated checks at the end of the week!!

“It is clear to this citizen that the only heavy work any government worker ever does is when they pick up their bloated checks at the end of the week!!”

Boy, isnt’ that the truth, Mr. Donkey.

Yet ask one who is collecting a $100,000 plus pension and he will inevitably tell you that he deserves every cent of it and even more.

They don’t know what real work or real risk is. They live inside protected bubbles.

Look at the ones who post on here. They claim to be college educated. But if you get them into a debate and pin them down on the actual subject matter most exhibit the intellectual proficiency of an 11th grader in HS. And that is no joke. I am quite serious.

Hey skdog sorry just saw your comment. I was an EMT-D and certified in Rescue in PA. I was also a real EMS Chief and fire Lieutenant. So go suck an egg. But you are right about one thing, I was not paid, well except when I was I living in MA: I was paid-on-call there. During most of my 22 years of service I was a volunteer since in PA outside the major cities most FD and EMS are volunteer. I also was an EVOC instructor. If you are a cop you’ll know what that is, I hope.

So it appears that it’s you who most closely resembles a “wanna-be” here, chief. A “real EMS Chief and fire Lieutenant” would have been getting paid to provide a professional service, not playing at fireman as you were doing.

Make sure you put some extra Band-Aids in the meat wagon, chief. There may be a high school football game you need to go and stand by for.

As to Donkey’s continuous whining about our incarceration rates, they are largely the result of the “tough on crime” wing of the Republican party, which never saw an undesirable act they didn’t want to punish someone for. It’s also related to many demonstrable failures we’ve had in addressing some of the basic precursors to criminal activity. Those would include the general breakdown of in loco parentis activities throughout our communities to properly deal with anti-social behavior before it becomes criminal, and the fear openly stoked by the Republicans about violence in minority communities in their effort to impose ever more draconian drug laws instead of supporting treatment programs.

One of the more significant developments on our path to a prison culture was the elimination of state mental hospitals in favor of community treatment programs, along with the foolish idea that mentally incompetent people are somehow capable of deciding what treatments are in their own best interest. That last being a demonstrably libertarian view of the supremacy of individual rights over community rights, as reflected by the state.

Instead, we have criminalized mental illness in order to provide the necessary protective interventions required to prevent crazy people from harming themselves or others.

Typical of most in LE you blame the victim for what is taking place in our society SKdog. The Repugs had a hand in building the Prison Industrial Complex(PIC) as we know it today, but not without the help of the ruling Deamonrats, and certainly not without the money and power of the LE RAGWUS cult, which is the main beneficiary of the PIC.

Yes most of the citizens that are the result of the war on drugs, but the truth is LE has had a war on the private citizen since the late 1980’s. We have people locked up as violent felons in state prison for having a mutual combat fist-fight in high school. At every turn the LE siblings(unions and professional organizations) bring meaningless cases before the courts demanding that officers will die if they are not given these powers and the courts in most cases approve their phony cries to stave off certain death. The pleading by LE for one of the rulings doesn’t mean much but in their entirety it has turned any encounter with one of the costumed jewelry wearing men in blue into a matter of life or daeath for the unarmed citizen that dares to question the state paid sociopath that is trampling their rights as a citizen of the U.S.

Right now your band of LE kooks has a case before the courts asking for the power to taze, kick and punch pregnant women all because the 9th circuit court ruled that the police in a case in Seattle were not entitled to kick and taze a 9 month pregnant woman.

You run off on a tangent blaming the states lack of “mental health hospitals” for the bad behavior of the armed LE simpletons running amuck on the streets of America. The truth is your LE cabal could very easily enfore the laws against citizens you are imprisoning the same way you enforce the laws against illegal aliens, but there is money and power in locking up citizens, there is no money in arresting and helping to deport illegal aliens, isn’t that right SKdog?

What you craved when you first put on that hyper-boyscout uniform was your first encounter with a citizen just to watch them kneel before you. If they even had a inkling of disrespect for you they were going to pay anyway you desired.

You’re a real intellectual there skdog; sorry but I won’t take the bait this time. You just keep on thinking and saying whatever and denigrating what I did as a vol. FF/EMT. I have nothing to prove to the likes of you. I will just bide my time until my escape from CA and people who think like you. I will think of you though every time I pass CA union thug with a badge and a gun. Have a nice life.

Once more you try to support your foolish argument with ridiculous claims disguised as “facts,” Donkey. Please provide even one example of someone who has been sentenced to state prison in California for nothing more than a high school, mutual combat fist fight. There’s simply no such example.

There was a serious and continuing trend of increasing violence in our society that corresponded with the end of the second World War and continued through the “crack epidemic” of the 1980’s and early 1990’s. Politicians of all stripes were elected to represent the fears and concerns of their constituents, leading to ever harsher sentencing laws throughout the country. Remember the argument over Mandatory Minimum sentences?

In California, one of the biggest complaints about Gov. Brown in the 1970’s was that he didn’t support the death penalty. That’s also the primary reason Rose Bird was not maintained on the California Supreme Court by voters. When people get scared they want their fears addressed by the politicians, courts, and police.

The Three-Strikes law was passed in California by initiative, not by a reasoned discussion in any legislative body. Efforts to limit its application to violent crimes, support by me and many other law enforcement and prosecution professionals, were repeatedly rebuffed by politicians and the electorate. Now that people are beginning to see the cost of such punitive measures, including the death penalty, we’ll see if they’re ready to dial things back to a more reasonable level.

Many observers believe the large reductions in the overall crime rate we’ve experienced over the last decade or so have been the direct result of the same punitive policies you continually whine about. I suppose we’ll get to see a large-scale sociology experiment in the near future and find out if that thesis is correct. Personally, I’m more inclined to believe the decline in overall crime rates is more related to the shrinking demographics reflected in the 14-24 year old male cohort, as well as the particular impact on that cohort in the minority community of greater access to family planning services. If you don’t understand that, you should read Freakonomics on the subject.

As to you chief, thank you for your kind words of departure. While I would be the last to denigrate your volunteer services, you should know better than to claim they’ve provided you with the knowledge and insight of public safety service organization and management in major urban and metropolitan regions. Good luck in finding your own utopia out in the great desert of fly-over country.

What you fail to acknowledge is that the LE feeder unions were right out in front of every politician that was put in place to vote for caging citizens on every trumpted up charge your boys could come up with SKdog.

As for the three strikes farce, it was the police that funded its passage.

So the facts are your LE cabal supplied the voice and cash to build the PIC, by passing all the props, laws, and rules that allowed it to grow. And I am not even including your filthy RAGWUS honors when it comes to your pay, perks, benefits and perks.

Did you realize, Donkey, that the same “prison industrial complex” you regularly wail about is the driving force behind the political effort underway to criminalize and imprison undocumented aliens? ALEC, the same people who brought us the Arizona anti-immigrant law, is supported by the largest private prison companies in the world.

SKdog, you have it wrong. Illegal aliens are already criminals by virtue of breaking the nations long standing immigration laws to usurp the jobs that American citizens have always done.

The PIC, to which you made claim, is a creation of the LE RAGWUS. It has conceived the current “Gulag” to which all Americans should be ashamed.

Look at the LE leaders in LA seeking to allow illegals to drive without a license without any conseqences. Your LE cabal is the biggest problem this state has; persuing one set of laws for your group of LE insiders, then looking the give illegals special rights and immunities, then expecting regular citizens to submit to your every whim. Look in the mirrior SKdog, you are nothing but a thieving RAGWUS feeder hiding in a gated community.

They are cowards too, donk. Most will stay in their cars and wait for backup before confronting a suspect who’s bigger than they are. A neighbor down the street told me that she called the cops about noises in her backyard one night and the cop refused to go back there by himself to check it out because it was too risky. heh.

If it is a non-emergency call such as “noises in my backyard,” the very first thing we teach new officers is to wait for their cover unit to arrive so they can properly secure the area. To do otherwise without necessity is just the kind of John Wayne foolishness that gets people injured or killed unnecessarily.

Every time you post about police tactics or training, you look like an ignorant and bitter old fool, Beel. I suspect that is an accurate assessment.