I just dont see the need to invest a high pick in a guard when we have needs at a much more premium position - OLB.

Yes, a strong offensive line is very important, but our line is not bad whatsoever. We can resign one of slauson or moore and then find a guard in the 2-4th round area, as this draft is very deep as far as interior lineman.

Our offensive problems are mostly attributed to our QB not understanding protections, holding the ball too long, and having zero pocket feel. The Oline opened holes in the running game, the problem is we had a back that cant make defenders miss.

Id rather see us with ansah and a guy like brian winters without question over taking warmack at 9.

I think that's fair, don't get me wrong, if we draft Ansah I'll do back flips. Of all the top pass rushers available in this draft, he's the one I want. He's athletic and he's already got the size you want--not like some of the other guys tipping the scales in the 240-245 range--those guys are going to get pushed off the edge.

My only issue is that some say he's "raw" and that to me is code-speak for him being slightly developmental or that he's not stepping in day 1 but instead would be a rotational type guy. For how long, who knows?

With Warmack, you pen him into that line the first day of OTAs and leave him there for the next decade. I think most of our problems on offense (Sanchez', the running game, the next QB of the Jets) are tied (or will be tied) directly to the line. Sanchez clearly had some major deficiencies, but he never had a clean pocket and I don't remember many holes ever being opened. Look at our efficiency on 3 and short and 4th down attempts, we couldn't push anyone off the ball. In 2009 and 2010, our line was very stout and we had a pretty effective offense.

OG may not be a premium position, but I think the OLine is the premium unit in all of football. Build a big, dominant OLine and let's finally build an offense.

_

03-06-2013, 10:01 AM

DDNYjets

With the holes on our roster and the overall lack of talent we need to make sure we draft someone that can play. Plug n play. IMO we must get 2013 starters out of our top 3 picks. With the lack of talent and holes that should not be hard but it would be also nice to get guys that can actually play and not just be a starter bc they are the best of an awful group.

In two years I wouldn't be surprised if Ansah is a Pro Bowler. In two years I wouldn't be surprised if Ansah was Gholston. Therein lies the problem. Also, we are going to ask him to play standing up and I think he much better suited as a 4-3 DE. I can't fall in love with him jumping and running over and around pads b.c I have seen that movie too many times before.

03-06-2013, 10:03 AM

JStokes

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDNYjets

In two years I wouldn't be surprised if Ansah is a Pro Bowler. In two years I wouldn't be surprised if Ansah was Gholston.

Jordan should be a solid OLB. I don't think he'll be a big time pass rusher, though.

03-06-2013, 01:15 PM

augustiniak

Quote:

Originally Posted by JStokes

I think that's fair, don't get me wrong, if we draft Ansah I'll do back flips. Of all the top pass rushers available in this draft, he's the one I want. He's athletic and he's already got the size you want--not like some of the other guys tipping the scales in the 240-245 range--those guys are going to get pushed off the edge.

My only issue is that some say he's "raw" and that to me is code-speak for him being slightly developmental or that he's not stepping in day 1 but instead would be a rotational type guy. For how long, who knows?

With Warmack, you pen him into that line the first day of OTAs and leave him there for the next decade. I think most of our problems on offense (Sanchez', the running game, the next QB of the Jets) are tied (or will be tied) directly to the line. Sanchez clearly had some major deficiencies, but he never had a clean pocket and I don't remember many holes ever being opened. Look at our efficiency on 3 and short and 4th down attempts, we couldn't push anyone off the ball. In 2009 and 2010, our line was very stout and we had a pretty effective offense.

OG may not be a premium position, but I think the OLine is the premium unit in all of football. Build a big, dominant OLine and let's finally build an offense.

_

two points here. first, i think whether we like it or not, o-line will be given strong consideration at 9. mostly b/c of the lack of talent at qb/wr positions there. plus, some of the top olb prospects have questions. throw in the reality that it's idzik's first pick and he'd really like that pick to excel. to me this means that if they do not trade back, both warmack and cooper are in play. yes, cooper. he's uber athletic and arguably better in pass protection that warmack.

second, i think o-line is a bit more likely at 9, if they deal revis for multiple picks. it sounds illogical but that's what i believe. if they get, say, 2 extra picks for revis, they can 'afford' to go bap with warmack, for instance, knowing they have 2 additional picks to address needs. but if they only have their own first and second rounders, i would be surprised if they invest a top 10 pick on a guard. it sounds easier to do, when they could still get a safety, wr and either a qb or olb by the end of the 2nd day.

03-06-2013, 04:16 PM

Paradis

I want nothing to do with Ansah. Talk about a misrepresented, horrendously raw prospect...

I'm actually thankful that guys like Moore showed up to throw 12 reps. Along with Jordan's flirting with bantamweight, Star exploding heart - it assures us that Ansah will be gone by 9. Thank god.

03-06-2013, 04:29 PM

C Mart

@nfl: Five teams that would be wise to invest in prospect Dion Jordan's potential, per @BuckyBrooks: http://t.co/1ez88OwDgB

03-06-2013, 05:02 PM

eaglenj

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paradis

I want nothing to do with Ansah. Talk about a misrepresented, horrendously raw prospect...

I'm actually thankful that guys like Moore showed up to throw 12 reps. Along with Jordan's flirting with bantamweight, Star exploding heart - it assures us that Ansah will be gone by 9. Thank god.

"Misrepresented" What does that mean exactly?

Im amazed that jet fans who have watched our pass rush for the past 5+ years could want a player like ansah to go before us.

Yea, lets root for that because players with his size/speed ratio never pan out and its not like there isnt a perfect example of this in the last 3 years who shares our stadium.

He isnt some workout warrior with bad tape. He took too football late - thats the only problem with the kid. Plus he dominated the first time he went against good competition.

Im amazed that jet fans who have watched our pass rush for the past 5+ years could want a player like ansah to go before us.

Yea lets take a guard.

Don't do that. Throw some cheap shot guard remark at the end. Where have I ever said I want a guard? I've remarked about that being clearly the safest and easiest pick - based on the trainwreck of prospects at the top end of the draft.

Ansah transitioning to 3-4 OLB is hardly automatic, and I believe to be a huge risk. It's not worth it. He's raw, and he's 4-3 DE. Misrepresented.

If we spent a top pick on OLB (which is to me is anything but assured), then it better be someone who can naturally play that position. Moore was the only one I saw this year whom I liked his chances to be difference maker - and he went ahead and sh*t himself to the tune of 12.

PASS. on the lot of them. There's plenty of meat later on.

03-06-2013, 07:06 PM

eaglenj

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paradis

Don't do that. Throw some cheap shot guard remark at the end. Where have I ever said I want a guard? I've remarked about that being clearly the safest and easiest pick - based on the trainwreck of prospects at the top end of the draft.

Ansah transitioning to 3-4 OLB is hardly automatic, and I believe to be a huge risk. It's not worth it. He's raw, and he's 4-3 DE. Misrepresented.

If we spent a top pick on OLB (which is to me is anything but assured), then it better be someone who can naturally play that position. Moore was the only one I saw this year whom I liked his chances to be difference maker - and he went ahead and sh*t himself to the tune of 12.

PASS. on the lot of them. There's plenty of meat later on.

There are simply way to few chances that a team has a shot at a player like ansah, and I pray he is available for us.

Here is what was written about aldon smith:

Flashes ability to rush the passer from inside. Also shows decent fluidity for his size when occasionally dropping into underneath coverage. Best-suited to play RDE in an even front but also has potential to play ROLB in a 3-4 or in a hybrid role.

There are VERY VERY few college players who are 3-4 OLBs, as that defense just isnt as common, so the vast majority of NFL 3-4 OLBs will have been primarily DEs in college.

That being said, in our particular defense, the OLB spot that ansah would play is in a 3 point stance a lot, but also needs athleticism to play in space and speed to rush on 3rd down. Thats exactly what he has.

Is he raw, yes, but when you watch him play, he is very good at extending his arms with engaging the olineman and working down the line to make plays on the backside....exactly what we need out of the position.

You cant play it safe when game chancing pass rushers are available to you, its too risky because you get so few shots at them.

03-06-2013, 08:28 PM

K-Ro 25

I like Ansah a lot as a prospect, but I really don't believe he's a 3-4 OLB. He's 270, and will probably be around 280 in the pro level. I really think he's too big to play OLB, and also, OLB is so much more of an IQ based position than DE. I really don't believe he'll develop properly as a 3-4 OLB. He's a 4-3 End. He'd be great in Detroit or Oakland, terrible in New York, imo

03-06-2013, 10:12 PM

Paradis

Quote:

Originally Posted by eaglenj

There are simply way to few chances that a team has a shot at a player like ansah, and I pray he is available for us.

*groan*... c'mon.

Don't bring Aldon into this.

You know what the best part is?? HOW MANY JI POSTERS say things like "I've watched the tape... the tape doesn't lie... the tape. the tape"

Really.

Let's talk about his ND game then. Not good. I've only seen 3 games of his thoroughly, and that one seem to spotlight his inexperience.

Understand that I'm not saying he sucks. He's not developed yet, he's got weight to put on his frame, and you're talking about putting him at the most challenging position on defense.

Not fluid enough for OLB, will not be strong enough for 3-4 DE, not worth the risk beefing a player up like that for a position he might not fit as.

Quote:

Don't like him as an OLB. I do think he could be a pretty good 3-4 DE if he puts on some weight.

Quote:

I don't see how Ansah is a 3-4 anything unless he is impressive as a pass defender and quickness department at the combine (which I don't see happening). I also have concerns with Jordan playing DE in any scheme. He is just too thin and won't anchor well on the line. He needs space.

And from a Jets fan..

Quote:

Really just trying to guage why so many people think he ll be a great 3-4OLB, while hes very athletic from all the tape ive watched (and ive watched A LOT) he looks horrible in space and looks more like A StrongSide LDE for the 4-3 and nothing more.

Quote:

Have you seen his tape? He lined up more at 34DE and Sometimes NT for them more then OLB, people act like his athleticism will translate to OLB but it wont

03-06-2013, 11:36 PM

K-Ro 25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paradis

*groan*... c'mon.

Don't bring Aldon into this.

You know what the best part is?? HOW MANY JI POSTERS say things like "I've watched the tape... the tape doesn't lie... the tape. the tape"

Really.

Let's talk about his ND game then. Not good. I've only seen 3 games of his thoroughly, and that one seem to spotlight his inexperience.

Understand that I'm not saying he sucks. He's not developed yet, he's got weight to put on his frame, and you're talking about putting him at the most challenging position on defense.

Bingo. Ansah will be a very good 4-3 End. His hips aren't fluid enough, and he's not quick enough for the 3-4. The 3-4 OLB position needs someone who has great football instincts, as well as the ability to defend the passing game, and set the edge. Ansah is more of a power pass rusher, and the 4-3 End is much easier to play, and it also suits his skill set.

I have Ansah slotted at 5 at Detroit, but he can also go to Oakland at 3 or San Diego at 11.

03-07-2013, 08:21 AM

eaglenj

Quote:

Originally Posted by K-Ro 25

Bingo. Ansah will be a very good 4-3 End. His hips aren't fluid enough, and he's not quick enough for the 3-4. The 3-4 OLB position needs someone who has great football instincts, as well as the ability to defend the passing game, and set the edge. Ansah is more of a power pass rusher, and the 4-3 End is much easier to play, and it also suits his skill set.

I have Ansah slotted at 5 at Detroit, but he can also go to Oakland at 3 or San Diego at 11.

Just curious, how fluid are terrell suggs hips? How often is he in space covering backs and TEs? Because he plays the exact hybrid DE/OLB role that ansah would.

You talk about setting the edge - is mingo gonna do that at 240 lbs? No, he is going to get obliterated in the run game and will need to be protected by the scheme.

The OLB in our scheme has their hand on the ground 70% of the time along with 3 other lineman, basically making himself the 4-3 DE you all speak of. Will he be confused and need to learn the nuances, absolutey, but when you can run like he can, and are strong enough to hold the POA and tall enough to disrupt passing lanes, then ill take a few mental mistakes. BT never made mental mistakes for us - unfortunately he couldnt rush the passer or chase down a RB or TE.

03-07-2013, 08:22 AM

eaglenj

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paradis

*groan*... c'mon.

Don't bring Aldon into this.

You know what the best part is?? HOW MANY JI POSTERS say things like "I've watched the tape... the tape doesn't lie... the tape. the tape"

Really.

Let's talk about his ND game then. Not good. I've only seen 3 games of his thoroughly, and that one seem to spotlight his inexperience.

Understand that I'm not saying he sucks. He's not developed yet, he's got weight to put on his frame, and you're talking about putting him at the most challenging position on defense.

The point was that if you step outside the halls of JI, there's a lot of questions about his ability to play OLB... and those guys don't exactly sound like dunces. You and I both recognize that.

03-07-2013, 11:56 AM

sec.101row23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paradis

I know. it's to be taken with a grain of salt obviously.

The point was that if you step outside the halls of JI, there's a lot of questions about his ability to play OLB... and those guys don't exactly sound like dunces. You and I both recognize that.

True, but there are very few players that come out of college where there isnt questions about their ability to play 3-4 OLB. How many guys in the last 5 years have come out that were no brainer 3-4 OLBs?