Crabtree Discussion Thread

The niners need to pick up the phone and get a face to face meeting with Parker and Crabtree.

First question: do you want to be a 49er?
if the answer is yes get a deal done...
if the answer is no, then F*^k him and trade him in March...

COMMUNICATE already.... figure out what needs to be done, and stop seating there waiting...

do something!!!! seating around is not helping anybody... Even the Bengals had a face to face meeting, before they signed Smith....

Sep 10, 2009 at 10:59 AM

#2207

jame-gumb

Info N/A

Originally posted by KRS-1:You and I are talking right now.....I can speak on your behalf but that doesn't mean I'm in your camp.

And as soon as you do, I'd make sure everyone knew you weren't speaking on my behalf. Crabtree didn't do that. Why? Because that's his plan. It's just like Maddog said. I don't know if Crabtree's cousin was speculating or regurgitating what Crabtree said, but so far Crabtree has done exactly what his cousin said he'd do. Whether or not his cousin is in his camp is inconsequential.

Again, the only thing I'm arguing is that Crabtree is being stupid when it comes to his contract. So far, no one has successfully refuted this point.

Originally posted by KRS-1:Seems most teams decided to fill needs as opposed to selecting the BPA. Outside of the Jets no team traded up into the top 10, as again it is costly especially when factoring in what one has to also pay the draft pick as well.

Or they didn't think he was the bpa. The point is that the only evidence to support the fact that Crabtree was a top-3 talent was that analysts said he was.

My point: I don't care what he thinks he's worth. He's been offered a fair deal. He's holding out for more money that he won't get. What he's doing is f**king stupid. Period.

I bet there are teams out there who if they had taken him at 10 would be willing to pay him, unlike us. Why ? Probably because players with ceilings as high as his being taken at 10 don't come around or happen often if hardly ever.

And FWIW some of those analysts are former players and or NFL execs and know talent when they see it.

The league is full of history of draftee's with ceilings higher than what has come before falling right on their ass and not amounting to anything.

Those draftee's however rarely ever fall like Crabtree did.

Normally when you get a player like that you want to get him signed. Does it really seem like the 49ers really want to get Crabtree signed with their stance ?

Look here's the deal. The guy is unproven, he could be the second coming of Jerry Rice, but he damn sure isn't until he proves otherwise, which is far from an easy thing to do (making the jump from being a top talent in the collegiate's to being one in the NFL). If this was an easy correlation, there wouldn't be much issue to this s**t, people wouldn't fall or rise in the draft at all..they would be slotted and it would pan out the way it was slotted and everything would be nice and tidy. HOWEVER, IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY, TOP TALENTS IN THE COLLEGIATE MORE OFTEN THAN NOT DON'T PAN OUT AS A TOP NFL TALENT NO MATTER WHICH SLOT THEY ARE DRAFTED AT, NO MATTER HOW MUCH THEY HAVE FALLEN OR RISEN. IT'S A CRAP SHOOT THAT THEY WILL TRANSLATE INTO A TOP NFL TALENT.

You can't fault the organization for adhering to good business sense. They are investing in a top collegiate talent that is unproven in a league with a history full of top collegiate talents who have fallen and/or risen in the draft and have not translated into top NFL talents.

The fact is this: It's the NFL, it's an entirely different animal than the collegiates....you gotta prove yourself against the best now, every week. If you do, you get rewarded with a big contract, if you don't, your sent packing in one way or another, and you take a big cut along the way.

If we trade him for another pick and that pick busts and MC has a storied career will we still have made a move would we have adhered to a good business sense ?

Is a good business sense to not try and negotiate ? To make one offer and if the offer is balked at to walk away in hopes eventually the other side might cave and if not oh well ?

Originally posted by BigMar:Just a reminder....the 9ers have 2 first round picks in 2010 draft they will have to negotiate with and sign. Therfore, they Cannot cave in to Craptree outrages demands as that will clearly set a bad stage for our 2010 1st round negotiations.

9er are being MORE than fair and should not get strongarmed by Craptree.

No one knows for sure if paying Crabtree will have a negative effect on next years picks or not. Will never know until next year.

Stop speculating when you have no basis for your claim.

Please Stop it..... If the 9ers pay Craptree or any player for that matter, MILLIONS of dollars MORE than his draft slot indicates, don't sit there and try to tell us the same game won't be played next year by the agents of the first rounders we select.
Come on, get real!

Originally posted by KRS-1:Seems most teams decided to fill needs as opposed to selecting the BPA. Outside of the Jets no team traded up into the top 10, as again it is costly especially when factoring in what one has to also pay the draft pick as well.

Or they didn't think he was the bpa. The point is that the only evidence to support the fact that Crabtree was a top-3 talent was that analysts said he was.

My point: I don't care what he thinks he's worth. He's been offered a fair deal. He's holding out for more money that he won't get. What he's doing is f**king stupid. Period.

I bet there are teams out there who if they had taken him at 10 would be willing to pay him, unlike us. Why ? Probably because players with ceilings as high as his being taken at 10 don't come around or happen often if hardly ever.

And FWIW some of those analysts are former players and or NFL execs and know talent when they see it.

Talent like Alex Smith??? Just cause they were former players, does not mean they can spot talent that will or will not translate to the NFL...

There are also execs turned analysts who have made great moves like take Super Mario over Reggie Bush.

That same argument can be used against you. Just because teams might not have had Crabtree as one of the top players on their board doesn't mean they didn't have a prospect up there who will be the next Alex Smith or Ryan Leaf.

How can it be used against me? I never said that they could not spot talent. All I'm saying that they hit on just about as many as they miss. If spotting talent was so much easier for ex-players, then how come they do not do it with greater frequency?

Originally posted by KRS-1:You and I are talking right now.....I can speak on your behalf but that doesn't mean I'm in your camp.

And as soon as you do, I'd make sure everyone knew you weren't speaking on my behalf. Crabtree didn't do that. Why? Because that's his plan. It's just like Maddog said. I don't know if Crabtree's cousin was speculating or regurgitating what Crabtree said, but so far Crabtree has done exactly what his cousin said he'd do. Whether or not his cousin is in his camp is inconsequential.

Again, the only thing I'm arguing is that Crabtree is being stupid when it comes to his contract. So far, no one has successfully refuted this point.

Draft picks rarely ever speak while negotiating on the ongoing process. The agent acts as the mouth piece which is the case currently. Parker likely told MC to zip it and let him handle it by refuting the claim himself and continuing to attempt to get a better offer.

Originally posted by Ninerbowl6:This is going to be an epic fail for the front office.....I feel like the niners are the new Bengals.....pay him the damn money and let's ball....we've been waiting for a true #1 since Owens left.....these guys don't grow on trees.

And please stop comparing him to Owens...because it's not even close. He's a good kid getting bad advice...it has nothing to do with his attitude.

Epic fail in your post: Crabtree isn't a true #1. He's not even a two or three or worthy of the PS yet. In fact, he's at the bottom of the pile looking up. He's an unproven rookie who you could give the whole enchilada to and it still wouldn't make him anything different than a roll of the dice on the franchise's part. That's why he gets paid for his draft slot, and not a damn thing more.

I'm going to laugh my ass off at the people here who are hanging on Craptree's nutsack if the little s**t turns out to be the next JJ Stokes, because it's entirely, equally, possible he could as much as not turn out that way, no matter what the franchise does or doesn't do, no matter how much people want otherwise.

I understand your upset...but if you take the emotions out of it and look at this thing rationally...I think you would see that a lot of draft experts had him as one of the top three players in the draft. I realize the draft is a crapshoot and players you think are going to be great sometimes end up not even being starters..... but from what I've seen from this kid he's a stud.....and I would hate to miss out on him(IMO a sure thing) because we don't want to pay a few more million......sounds like the Yorks of old.

Rashaun Woods was also a stud (not rated as high as Crabtree, I know) with an "off-putting" personality. Something to think about...

I hear that....but remember Woods was like the 5th or 6th receiver taken that year....Crabs was rated #1....and we got lucky because of good ol' Al building the greatest track football team in the leauge.....lol

Originally posted by Squirrel:When would we get a good quarterback starting for us, Crabtree will be happy. He should look at the two first rounders we have next year and look at the draft class of quarterbacks. Or, he should look at Nate Davis. That could be a potent combo for years to come!

This is an excellent point.

If this hold out is about Crabby's football IQ, and his belief that the Niners don't have a QB that will allow him to show his WR ability to its fullest, so he wants to play elsewhere, then he really isn't thinking.

How could he watch N. Davis in preseason and not be excited about teaming up with him for years to come?

Originally posted by BigMar:Just a reminder....the 9ers have 2 first round picks in 2010 draft they will have to negotiate with and sign. Therfore, they Cannot cave in to Craptree outrages demands as that will clearly set a bad stage for our 2010 1st round negotiations.

9er are being MORE than fair and should not get strongarmed by Craptree.

No one knows for sure if paying Crabtree will have a negative effect on next years picks or not. Will never know until next year.

Stop speculating when you have no basis for your claim.

Please Stop it..... If the 9ers pay Craptree or any player for that matter, MILLIONS of dollars MORE than his draft slot indicates, don't sit there and try to tell us the same game won't be played next year by the agents of the first rounders we select.
Come on, get real!

Again it is not truly known. One can assume but assuming doesn't make it true. Lots of assumptions have proven to be wrong. Everyone assumed VD would be great, they assumed Reggie Bush was Jesus in Cleats...they assumed voting for George Bush was good idea....how did those turn out ?

So to quote Big Mar............Please stop it.

Sep 10, 2009 at 11:07 AM

#2215

jame-gumb

Info N/A

Originally posted by KRS-1:Draft picks rarely ever speak while negotiating on the ongoing process. The agent acts as the mouth piece which is the case currently. Parker likely told MC to zip it and let him handle it by refuting the claim himself and continuing to attempt to get a better offer.

Originally posted by KRS-1:Draft picks rarely ever speak while negotiating on the ongoing process. The agent acts as the mouth piece which is the case currently. Parker likely told MC to zip it and let him handle it by refuting the claim himself and continuing to attempt to get a better offer.

Originally posted by BigMar:Just a reminder....the 9ers have 2 first round picks in 2010 draft they will have to negotiate with and sign. Therfore, they Cannot cave in to Craptree outrages demands as that will clearly set a bad stage for our 2010 1st round negotiations.

9er are being MORE than fair and should not get strongarmed by Craptree.

No one knows for sure if paying Crabtree will have a negative effect on next years picks or not. Will never know until next year.

Stop speculating when you have no basis for your claim.

Please Stop it..... If the 9ers pay Craptree or any player for that matter, MILLIONS of dollars MORE than his draft slot indicates, don't sit there and try to tell us the same game won't be played next year by the agents of the first rounders we select.
Come on, get real!

Again it is not truly known. One can assume but assuming doesn't make it true. Lots of assumptions have proven to be wrong. Everyone assumed VD would be great, they assumed Reggie Bush was Jesus in Cleats...they assumed voting for George Bush was good idea....how did those turn out ?

So to quote Big Mar............Please stop it.

Come on now, you recognize what I said is close to reality. You are simply trying to not acknowlege facts. Good try, but you failed.

Originally posted by BigMar:Just a reminder....the 9ers have 2 first round picks in 2010 draft they will have to negotiate with and sign. Therfore, they Cannot cave in to Craptree outrages demands as that will clearly set a bad stage for our 2010 1st round negotiations.

9er are being MORE than fair and should not get strongarmed by Craptree.

No one knows for sure if paying Crabtree will have a negative effect on next years picks or not. Will never know until next year.

Stop speculating when you have no basis for your claim.

Please Stop it..... If the 9ers pay Craptree or any player for that matter, MILLIONS of dollars MORE than his draft slot indicates, don't sit there and try to tell us the same game won't be played next year by the agents of the first rounders we select.
Come on, get real!

Again it is not truly known. One can assume but assuming doesn't make it true. Lots of assumptions have proven to be wrong. Everyone assumed VD would be great, they assumed Reggie Bush was Jesus in Cleats...they assumed voting for George Bush was good idea....how did those turn out ?

So to quote Big Mar............Please stop it.

Come on now, you recognize what I said is close to reality. You are simply trying to not acknowlege facts. Good try, but you failed.

I have read too many of your posts that I would have liked to and no I don't recognize anything you say.

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