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Thanks for the kind words FOH! Trust me when I tell you it means a lot to me especially coming from you!

When moving the SubMersive towards the front of the room, I had to raise the sub volume dial a few clicks vs the old nearfield location to get everything to work well and sound more balanced. I think it worked out really well but the new setup sounds so good/powerful at times that I started to get concerned again about disturbing my neighbors hence my little test.

My neighbor's son is in his early 20s and is having a rough time finding a job in this rough economy. I try to find things for him to do around my house like yard work and what not so he can earn some extra cash. He's a great guy and a very hard worker. It works out well for me too because I get to spend more time inside watching movies and relaxing. Today he came by to mow my yard and I asked him if he ever heard anything like music or bass coming from my house in the past few weeks. He said Nope...never! He claims they turn their music up very loud at times as well and his dad sometimes plays the guitar really loud. I never heard any of that in my home either so I feel much more at ease now knowing that we are not disturbing anyone.

Most of the houses around here were built in the 1950 to 1960s and are sitting on a 1/4 to a 1/2 acre. Some are on 2-4 acres - alotta freggin yard work We are away from main roads/highways, traffic, trains and airports so it's really quiet around here at nights as well.

Yeah well I live in an apt. now and I guess I just got the luck of the draw because I have a corner apt. with no neighbors to my north or west, neighbors across the hall to the east, and an empty apt. to my south, plus a neighbor below me. I've asked and no one ever hears my system.

I love your setup and I bet it sounds pretty fantastic. Very nicely done with the treatments.

Yep...thank you for asking. I actually have lots of family in NJ. The biggest scare was for my parents. They are all OK however my parents were evacuated at 4am Sunday morning due to flooding. They returned 5 hours later and there was no less than 1ft of water in front of their house and about 10ft of water in their back yard. The house was only 1ft above flood level and they only got very minor flooding on the first floor but they are all OK. They were also without power for about 8hrs too. From some of the pictures I saw on the news and other friends and family emailing me, they were all lucky to not be severely impacted. I'm very lucky and thankful to have other friends and family and neighbors to check up on my parents and keep me updated. My mom said the law enforcement was so caring and helpful!

It sometimes amazes me how Americans pull together to help each other in times of need. God Bless the USA!

Yep...thank you for asking. I actually have lots of family in NJ. The biggest scare was for my parents. They are all OK however my parents were evacuated at 4am Sunday morning due to flooding. They returned 5 hours later and there was no less than 1ft of water in front of their house and about 10ft of water in their back yard. The house was only 1ft above flood level and they only got very minor flooding on the first floor but they are all OK. They were also without power for about 8hrs too. From some of the pictures I saw on the news and other friends and family emailing me, they were all lucky to not be severely impacted. I'm very lucky and thankful to have other friends and family and neighbors to check up on my parents and keep me updated. My mom said the law enforcement was so caring and helpful!

It sometimes amazes me how Americans pull together to help each other in times of need. God Bless the USA!

Good to hear things are relatively okay. I hope nothing of real value was damaged, especially if it's not easily replaceable. But the main thing is the family's intact.

Thanks, my friend, for the invite but I will have to turn you down this time. I am heading back to the ATL on Saturday and need to get home asap. I am heading to Birmingham on Monday early am for a 4 day work trip so I have to get home and will have to clean my 11 days worth of dirty clothes, then re- pack. Maybe the next trip down I could swing by.

Well my Pioneer 51FD Bluray player started acting up a few weeks ago. I then updated it with the newest firmware and used my cleaning disc which seemed to help in the past but not currently helping. Long story short I just pulled the trigger on a new Oppo 93 Bluray player I hope to have it in a week or so.

I would continue to use my old fat PS3 but the fan noise bugs me at times. The ole trusty PS3 will continue to serve as my back up BR player.

Good move on the OPPO. I have the 83 and it is a great player. It makes movies look great and it is very good for music. Plus, when I combined it with the Integra 80.2 I was able to get the full uncompressed audio with BLU ray movies. I think you will be happy with that player.

The Pioneer 51FD, other than the current issues and the slow loading, has been a great BR player especially for the price I paid for it used. I think the only thing the Pioneer does better than the Oppo is Seemless layer change on SD DVDs and that was important to me when I first got it and my movie collection was 70% DVDs and 30% Bluray. That feature is not as important to me now since my BR to DVD ratio has flipped the other way and I continue to replace my DVDs to BRs when possible. From what I've read, the Oppo 93 is equal or better than the 51fd in all other aspects/features.

I always thought the old fat (original 60gb) PS3 did an OK when upconverting standard DVDs but felt my Toshiba A2 HD-DVD was slightly better at this. I think the Pioneer 51fd was better than the A2 at upconverting standard Dvds and now think the Oppo 93 is even better than the 51fd. The image quality was similar to the 51fd but there were 2 standard dvds that I tested (Ali and Over the Hedge) that looked as if it was indeed bluray image quality. I need some more time to really get familiar with it but so far I think its great. It's as fast as the PS3 when loading blurays but as quiet as the Pioneer 51fd and more.

I glad you're enjoying it. I too have an Oppo, a 95(same video performance), and I'm constantly impressed with it's abilities and build quality. What they offer in terms of performance/$, just seems to be outstanding.

For anyone that cares The Oppo 93 is so far the best bluray player I’ve owned and rivals or beats every other player I had for standard DVDs including my old Denon 2900 DVD player. It’s quiet, loads ridiculously fast, has excellent PQ, loaded with features and has played everything I threw at it in the past few days. One thing in particular that stood out to me is that my PS3 and my old Pioneer 51fd player would sometimes have issues when displaying scenes with a red light in the background of the picture. This red light would sometimes cause, what seemed to be a little bit of, banding on some actor’s faces. Since this problem does not show up on all movies (just a very few) and my TV is not professionally calibrated, I thought this was normal and just accepted it but that is now gone or greatly minimized. I have my Pioneer 5080 plasma calibrated very similar to the settings D-Nice has listed in the 8G Kuro settings thread but also have it tweaked for my preference. I like a little more ‘pop’ in my picture.

On another note, my in-laws came over on last Thursday and spent the weekend with us. My mother in-law has ALWAYS, the past 9 years, complained that I watched movies too loud on my 2 previous systems but she was able to enjoy a few movies with us this weekend at fairly loud levels (13-14 from reference) without complaining once. For me this speaks volumes of the new JTR/Seaton set up with room treatments.

While I was at the store, my wife and her mom was watching Shallow Hal on DVD only -16 from reference. I walked in towards the end of the movie to find them both laughing hysterically with my mother in-law at the edge of her seat almost on the floor. I asked “You guys must really be enjoying that movie?!” The wife replied “The movie is good but Mommy heard a car in the surround speakers, got scared, jumped and almost fell out of her chair. She said she thought there was actually a car coming through rear wall!” This apparently happened 10 minutes before I walked in and they still could not compose themselves from laughing so hard. We bought my in-laws a HTIB a few years back so she is somewhat used to the surround channels. It’s great to know that others, who may not understand or care for all of the upgrades, $$ and time it took to get there, but can enjoy a movie and create a reaction like this especially from a non-action/horror type movie.

For anyone that cares The Oppo 93 is so far the best bluray player I’ve owned and rivals or beats my every other player I had for standard DVDs including my old Denon 2900 DVD player. It’s quiet, loads ridiculously fast, has excellent PQ, loaded with features and has played everything I threw at it in the past few days. One thing in particular that stood out to me is that my PS3 and my old Pioneer 51fd player would sometimes have issues when displaying scenes with a red light in the background of the picture. This red light would sometimes cause, what seemed to be a little bit of, banding on some actor’s faces. Since this problem does not show up on all movies (just a very few) and my TV is not professionally calibrated, I thought this was normal and just accepted it but that is now gone or greatly minimized. I have my Pioneer 5080 plasma calibrated very similar to the settings D-Nice has listed in the 8G Kuro settings thread but also have it tweaked for my preference. I like a little more ‘pop’ in my picture.

On another note, my in-laws came over on last Thursday and spent the weekend with us. My mother in-law has ALWAYS, the past 9 years, complained that I watched movies too loud on the 2 previous systems but she was able to enjoy a few movies with us this weekend at fairly loud levels (13-14 from reference) without complaining once. For me this speaks volumes of the new JTR/Seaton set up with room treatments.

While I was at the store, my wife and her mom was watching Shallow Hal on DVD only -16 from reference. I walked in towards the end of the movie to find them both laughing hysterically with my mother in-law at the edge of her seat almost on the floor. I asked “You guys must really be enjoying that movie?!” The wife replied “The movie is good but Mommy heard a car in the surround speakers, got scared, jumped and almost fell out of her chair. She said she thought there was actually a car coming through rear wall!” This apparently happened 10 minutes before I walked in and they still could not compose themselves from laughing so hard. We bought my in-laws a HTIB a few years back so she is somewhat used to the surround channels. It’s great to know that others, who may not understand or care for all of the upgrades, $$ and time it took to get there, but can enjoy a movie and create a reaction like this especially from a non-action/horror type movie.

That last paragraph is great. I've had that happen to me now and then, and I have a 2-channel system. I can imagine what happens with surrounds!

I don't have too much to add other than my bluray collection got a nice boost, approximately 40 plus more bluray movies in the last 2 months, due to some deals at Blockbuster with their previously viewed blurays and a local pawn shop that was selling blurays for 5 bucks each during some clearance sale they had.

My best friend of over 25 years came down last week with his 80 year old father to spend some vacation time with me and enjoy some movies. My friend used to come down from NJ to FL every 2-3 months or so to visit but since his mom past away last year, he's been busy helping his dad and has not been down for over a year but he and his dad loves watching movies too. He told me that he set up a regular stereo to his dad's HD Projection screen TV and his dad always tells him to turn it down that it's too loud for him. The odd thing is that while they were here we watched about a dozen or so movies from 9-14db from reference and I asked his dad a few times, if this was too loud for him and his response was This is great, it's like a real movie theater set up. I love this! I talked with my friend when they returned to NJ and he said his dad kept saying Boy, Claude sure does have a nice set up there!

As I stated, this is my best friend from my childhood and he's heard every system I ever had. There was many times when he would come over in the past and ask me to turn it up because he can't make out what some actors are saying if they are speaking to softly/quietly. He never mentioned this once while they were here this past week with the dozen or so movies we watched. I'm guessing the new setup with room treatments are the main reasons for this. When I asked him about what he thought about the system when they were leaving his response was It's the most natural sounding one you've ever owned and easiest to understand!

I know we all spend a ton of time and money on this hobby and its well worth it but sitting back and enjoying a marathon of movies with my best friend and his, very cool, 80 year old dad is something that I can never put a price tag on!

I know we all spend a ton of time and money on this hobby and its well worth it but sitting back and enjoying a marathon of movies with my best friend and his, very cool, 80 year old dad is something that I can never put a price tag on!

Wonderful story.

I wish my Dad, who passed away several years ago, could enjoy my system. He, truly way ahead of his time, was a film enthusiast. He mounted a huge screen in our court (cul-de-sac), in the sixties, and projected 16mm movies for all the neighborhood to view. We all sat on our sloping driveway and watched old monster movies, Laurel & Hardy comedies, etc. outdoors and under the stars. He had one mono speaker up at the screen. Then, in the seventies, we had a wall mounted big screen in our family room, and we'd view all the big action blockbusters of the era; Earthquake, Towering Inferno, Poseidon Adventure, etc, all on film.... He'd really dig where things are today.

Sharing our systems with other enthusiasts is one thing, however allowing the unsuspecting to experience some of the realism we enjoy in our homes can be really rewarding.

Claude, I read your review link that you posted in the Cap or SubMersive thread. You wrote something that I experienced and still do experience at times. When I am listening to just 2ch music, the sound stage is just stellar. The instruments are well placed. At times I have walked up to the center just to make sure it is not playing. It is pretty cool when you can fool yourself like that.
And that is a cool story. I know that people have noticed the changes I have made over the years. Cranking your system for someone else is always fun.

I wish my Dad, who passed away several years ago, could enjoy my system. He, truly way ahead of his time, was a film enthusiast. He mounted a huge screen in our court (cul-de-sac), in the sixties, and projected 16mm movies for all the neighborhood to view. We all sat on our sloping driveway and watched old monster movies, Laurel & Hardy comedies, etc. outdoors and under the stars. He had one mono speaker up at the screen.

^That is so freggin awesome! Your dad sounds like he was one fantastic guy! Thank you for sharing too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIkeDuke

Claude, I read your review link that you posted in the Cap or SubMersive thread. You wrote something that I experienced and still do experience at times. When I am listening to just 2ch music, the sound stage is just stellar. The instruments are well placed. At times I have walked up to the center just to make sure it is not playing. It is pretty cool when you can fool yourself like that.

Very cool Mike! I still do this from time to time and still cant believe the sound stage either (even with the "Stereo" or "Pure Direct" lite up on the receiver). I still get up, like I have some kinda compulsive disorder, to verify that the center is indeed off. LOL!

I listen mainly in direct mode. No sub or anything. That sounds the best to me. Yea, it's a pretty cool thing to experience. I am glad that you can get the same effect. That means that you have your speakers setup right and that the room is treated correctly. At least that's my take.

I ordered and received 3 more 242 acoustic panels from GIK last week. I previously did not have my ceiling treated so I installed 2 of them on the ceiling. My method was very simple - I just used a mirror on the ceiling and sat in my chair, had the wife do the same for her and installed a panel where the mirror previously reflected the front speakers. The ceiling mounting location ended up being midway between the (LP) listening position and the speakers. I actually had to move the ceiling mounted light fixture 1 foot forward (closer to the front of the room) so that when the panel was installed, it had good complete coverage for the first point ceiling reflection. I then installed the 2nd panel closer to the listening position but over head as well. The 3rd panel was installed behind my LP on the back wall. Since my room is so small, there's not enough room pull the chairs a few feet out and away from the rear wall but we have pulled them out a 1.5ft from the rear wall. I have Monster Traps installed on the big rear windows that are covered by the curtains but those are located slightly over my head when I'm reclined. This other 242 panel covers more of ear level behind the back wall when partially reclined in my chair.

I'll have to admit with all these treatments in such a small room, it's starting to look like a padded room for a crazy person in straight jacket (LOL!) but it's sure sounding a lot better

Actually, I think it looks pretty good and the wife thinks I did a good job on the installs too but most folks that come over to visit think all these panels are speakers LOL! The speakers comment is pretty funny when you think about it cuz there are 6 actual speakers in the room (5 plus the sub) and then 13 visible acoustic panels in the room (the 2 full size Monster Bass Traps behind the curtains are not visible). My friends and family must think I am nucking futs to have a total of 19 so called speakers of this size in a small ~12'x12' room.

I'll try to get some more pics soon. After a dozen movies and a few music sessions, it sounds cleaner than it previously did and I've noticed I can turn up the volume a little more now too and it still not too loud or fatiguing. My room is definitely not as Live or reflective as it was prior to treatments but it does not sound too Dead either.

As addicting as treatments are/were to me, I think I am done with treating my room I may continue to experiment with the existing panels placement but I am very happy with the current results!

That's great. I know it's hard to stop when you start . The ceiling is important. GIK told me so. I am very pleased with the results I have now. I did not put any treatments over the window I have. I used some 100 year old velvet curtains that were doubled up so that covers the windows. It probably only covers some of the high frequencies but I am sure it does something. I do have other places I can put treatments, but I am very happy with how the room sounds as it is. Like you, I can crank it without fatigue or bothering anybody else. Plus, it measures great. You will probably have to re-do the EQ when you add the new treatments. That is another reason I don't want to add more. The job that Craig did was killer and my room measures very good now. As a reminder I am using the following for eq and treatments:
Audyessy XT32 and Velodyne SMS-1
8 GIK traps
2 244's on the back wall
2 244's above my head
2 custom size 242's on the front wall
2 custom size Tri traps in the front corners
All of that makes for a great sounding room . I still have more space I can put traps but the room sounds so good now I am afraid to mess with it.
P.S Have you made any charts of your system? You know, to see what issues you might have and what the eq and treatments have already fixed?

Actually the only measuring I did was the following:
HSU test disc with newer analog RS SPL meter C-slow weighted prior to Anti-Mode and Traps install and measured a huge peak at around 50hz. After Anti-mode EQ, the peak was gone using the same method of testing.

Later I downloaded the Real Traps test disc that does 1hz increments from 10hz and above. This is what I started using when I was moving my Sub from location to location until I found the best spot in my room (using RS SPL meter –C weighted slow). The 50hz peak was definitely part of the room because no matter where I put the Sub, the peak was there. In some locations, it was less and more even and other locations, like the corner, it really excited that mode.

I then talked with Bryan Pape and GIK, sent him pics of my room, dimensions and gear. He made recommendations that I would not have thought of at the time like covering the back window with Monster Traps and the 244 behind the mains for SBIR. Bryan also advised about keeping treatments symmetrical in my room and a bunch of other stuff. I also followed some “general rules of thumb” when I could afford it by treating all corners and first point reflection.

After all the Bass Traps were installed, I re-ran Anti-mode again and it had a more even response (verifying with Real Traps test disc and RS meter).
I then used the Receiver test tones and SPL meter to level set everything but running the sub about 2-3db hot. Finally, I double checked everything with the Audio Toolkit DVD that Mark Seaton supplied with the SubMersive. Then I listen for a few hours or days and see how I like it. So far, I prefer the Submersive in DSP1/PGM1 in my room but running 2-3dbs hot.

I did re-run Audyssey a few weeks ago and then level matched using the SPL meter, Audio Tool Kit and receiver test tones. I thought the mains sounded similar vs no Audyssey but thought the bass was lacking a bit. I then measured the bass response, I noticed that the bass response from 20hz to 40hz was down about 5-6db with Audyssey, Anti-mode and Traps installed Versus with just Traps and Anti-mode. With this new location and Traps installed, I prefer the bass without Audyssey. One of the things my simple minded measurements don’t show is decay time but you can definitely hear the bass response is much tighter and smoother in the treated room.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I also measured the test tones in Dolby PLX Movie mode and adjusted the sub Distance (in my case adding 1.5ft after accounting for the actual Sub Distance and latency in Anti-mode). Mark Seaton told me about the first few weeks when I got my SubMersive but CraigJohn illustrates how well it does work here and here.

I know these measurement techniques are not ideal and are time consuming compared to REW, Omnimic or XTZ and I may get Omnimic later to further experiment/learn but so far they have helped me achieve most of my goals in this room and have taught me a little some things while doing so.

PS...Some of the best advice I received on this forum and the Seaton forum was you telling me to contact Bryan Pape at GIK not to mention you convincing me that I should get a SubMersive! Thank You again Mike!

Sounds like you did a good amount of testing before and after. Just like you, my decay times are very good. In fact, they surprised Craig with how good they were. As you know, I too had a monster peak around 45-50Hz. That is what the SMS-1 is taking care of. It must be related to our small room size. I am glad that I was able to help(push) you in the direction you went in. I had some pushing as well from other people to get my room to look and sound like it does. Congrats on getting your room sounding even better. With all that you have done, I am sure it sounds great. Keep on enjoying it.