Ken Pisi, Foden and arguably Collins. JP has not been given any chances except two Anglo Welsh games where he has been one of the best players on the pitch. IF Jimís not gunna play him now then release the poor bloke. Heís about 29! He played for Argentina at Twickenham fairly recently. Almost certain another prem team would play him.

saintsfellaKen Pisi, Foden and arguably Collins. JP has not been given any chances except two Anglo Welsh games where he has been one of the best players on the pitch. IF Jimís not gunna play him now then release the poor bloke. Heís about 29! He played for Argentina at Twickenham fairly recently. Almost certain another prem team would play him.

I too find it odd that we choose to keep a full current international on our books and not play him in the league games. If Jim needed wing cover, surely there are some young players in the Championship that would love a chance to step up, like Kessell, even if it is for cover and Anglo Welsh Games. Even retaining the likes of Packman instead would have made better sense?

The three mentioned, Collins, Pisi and Estelles are relatively similar players; they have pace, have a step, are not as big and strong as North and enjoy a broken field. All a relatively on par defensively.

Clearly the coach considers Collins and Pisi to be better than Estelles. The greater worry for me is second row where Dickinson is not a natural and only Moon available to cover - all down to missing Lawes and presumably injuries to Craig and Day. Myler's selection probably down to lack of match fitness of Francis and Reinach's performances of late presumed better than Groom, which is hard to understand.

As others mention this is a typical JM conservative selection for a potential banana skin match.

We're a little unlucky with injuries to locks, Ribbans, Day and Craig all injured, Lawes and Api away on international duty too so I imagine Jim's hand was forced slightly.

However I think the back row balance is lacking, Eadie played the best part of a full game last weekend, I think that Gibson 6, T at 7 and Eadie 8 has a better balance to it, not been impressed with Wood of late. That said I suppose his experience is probably a factor with Hartley and Lawes away.

The return of Horne is great to see, and I think will be needed against an actually quite strong Worcester back-line. I agree with the other people on this thread though, what does JP Estelles have to do to get in the side, our best player over the past 2 weeks, surely deserves a crack at the premiership.

JP has been great for sure, but Ken has been very good too. Out of the two I would probably pick Ken for his all round game but JP is very unlucky as he deserves a shot.

Francis has not been playing for a few weeks and Myler has. It makes sense to stick with the Myler to a point but for me we need to see Francis good and early so he can get a good bit of time to be able to start next week.

On the Francis vs Myler debate .. not that there has really been one .. but can anyone point out what Piers has done in a Saints shirt that justifies his selection over Myler?

Genuinely interested. IMO they both have relative strengths and weaknesses. However, any hopes that Francis might be the natural replacement for Myler have been put to bed, at least in my mind. He simply hasn't looked like he can control a game when Saints have parity or are on the back foot. In fact, he looked better at 12 for England in the summer .. but that may have been down to the quality of the England 10 (Ford) and the mediocrity of Argentina in the two test series.

You may well be right. He hasn't had a sustained run in the 10 slot. However, he hasn't done anything in the few matches I've seen him in to mark him as being any better than say Harry Mallinder. And I'd warrant that the latter's kicking stats are better than Francis'.

It's not so much what Francis has done, he's only been here a few months, it's what he may bring to the team and the only way to find out is to give him game time.
With regards to Dickinson in the second row, if my memory is correct he played a lot of games for Rotherham there.

I really hope the saints can win this game. There are quite a few in the Warriors side that would like to see saints slip up.
I do try and understand the game plan from the coaches perspective but I am struggling.
I don't think there is much option with the front 5 due to Internationals and injury.
The back row is a mystery, Wood and Gibson tread on each other's toes and play the same game in the same space. T is a 7 playing 8. We have an 8 on the bench. I presume as the game progresses we will see T revert to 7 and Eadie take the pitch.
All in all a fairly light weight pack that will not boss the game particularly with Worcs looking for their first win.

Nine Cobus or Nic will have to be on their game against Hougaard who is probably the best 9 in the premiership

Why are we playing Myler who relies on a dominate pack to play his territory game and has been pretty rusty in the last two games.

I just hope we are not relying on the shovel pass to 12 to try and gain a few yards.

Hopefully Francis gets a look in without needing to chase the game.

Great to see Horne back lets hope he gets some decent ball.

Collins is the only real gas we have and despite some silly defensive cock ups goes looking for the ball.

All in all are we playing a territory game without a dominate pack or will we be relying on Myler to set the backs alight.

Francis is on the bench is he not?
Myler is yesterdays man.
We had a lot more attacking intent with Harry at 10, for all
his perceived defensive frailties.
Just my opinion of course my heart just sank a little when I saw Myler starting.

San MiguelTedge
You may well be right. He hasn't had a sustained run in the 10 slot. However, he hasn't done anything in the few matches I've seen him in to mark him as being any better than say Harry Mallinder. And I'd warrant that the latter's kicking stats are better than Francis'.

Frankly mate youíre just guessing about all of this

Watch some of the last 2 years games in super rugby that Francis played for the Blues. Without watching him play, you canít take a fair view on his abilities.

Are Harry or Myler in the EPL squad? No. Is Piers? Yes. Does Eddie Jones know what heís doing ? Yes.

San MiguelTedge
You may well be right. He hasn't had a sustained run in the 10 slot. However, he hasn't done anything in the few matches I've seen him in to mark him as being any better than say Harry Mallinder. And I'd warrant that the latter's kicking stats are better than Francis'.

Frankly mate youíre just guessing about all of this

Watch some of the last 2 years games in super rugby that Francis played for the Blues. Without watching him play, you canít take a fair view on his abilities.

Are Harry or Myler in the EPL squad? No. Is Piers? Yes. Does Eddie Jones know what heís doing ? Yes.

Taking all things into account,comments put to JM at STH forum,various posts on this site over many many weeks,in balanced back row,JP not being trusted?PF not being played instead of SM,why can JM not tell us his reasons for picking players In the positions he does,and why do they take precedence over those left out?
Surely it is not to much to ask,there are more than a few DOR,s in the prem that do,living in Coventry big Dai regularly explains his team selections.
Maybe JM is afraid to do so?

So here was I thinking that this was a bit of a fresh and different kind of a team due to some injuries, absences and a chance to try some new combinations. Reading this thread I was clearly wrong and it is all a big conspiracy against certain team members and a plan by Jim to have us lose the game.

Oh well. I suppose I'll just have to cheer on the lads and see how they go. COYS

Itís all a bit of a shame for James Grayson. So much potential but canít even get a start in the LV or on the bench in the prem. Personally I noticed a big difference in the last 20 last week with Grayson playing so much flatter than Myler . As much as I love Myler, I would rather see Grayson ahead of him this season as heís the future right?! Iím not convinced this Biggar signing is going to work well for us either. That will make 9/10/12 Mitchel/Grayson/Stephenson all with incredible potential, all 3rd choice and unlikely to get much game-time. We might end up seeing those 3 lining up for Worcester in a couple of sesons along with Ethan et al.

I donít mean to be negative but i just wish weíd invest more in our young talent (like Sarries do)

Jim is under pressure and, like many a manager, is playing safe on the basis that any win will do. I would love to see Mitchell, Grayson, Hutchinson, Stephenson and JP get some game time but it will never happen en masse so its drip feed for the time being.

There's some real quality in the Warriors side (Pennell, Hougard, O'Callaghan Heem, Singleton). That combined with a number of ex Saints players looking to make a point and our depleted team with injuries makes Warriors favourites for me.

However Horne hasn't lost a Saints game yet so having him back should make a real difference.

[quote twsaint]
The Worcester crowd are a fickle lot. It won't be full but if their lads great on top, they will make a lot of noise.

Oh and the Saints fans aren't. I really cannot believe the total BS spurting out of some keyboards
Piers was injured (if you remember) and got picked for the England training camps regardless of that. He is not fully match fit hence Myler being picked.

I do believe that even if JM picked a team with all of the player in that you are shouting for, he would still be shot down. Personally I do not call that supporting a side in any way. Why not just get behind the team and show them that we do support them.

I do not agree with somne of the picks regularly but I would sooner accept it and cheer the team on rather than mouth off (or type off) on here. Remember player do read this board. Something I think I am going to stop. so this will be my final post and will not bother to read any more of the bile from the regular offenders.

Shame you feel that way Saintlyg but I like the fact that individuals share their opinions (usually with added rationale). What a shame if we all behaved exactly the same. Your definition of support is different from mine. Season ticket holder for many years which will continue but it won't stop me calling out what frustrates me (even if many others disagree). For example Sam D at lock and Captain yet leaving in next few weeks : crazy !
Tom W / Jamie G at 6 & 7 .... crazy (Jamie G 6 and Nutley i.e a true 7 in my opinion would be far more balanced.
No JP ...madness.

[quote Saintlyg][quote twsaint]
The Worcester crowd are a fickle lot. It won't be full but if their lads great on top, they will make a lot of noise.

Oh and the Saints fans aren't. I really cannot believe the total BS spurting out of some keyboards
Piers was injured (if you remember) and got picked for the England training camps regardless of that. He is not fully match fit hence Myler being picked.

I do believe that even if JM picked a team with all of the player in that you are shouting for, he would still be shot down. Personally I do not call that supporting a side in any way. Why not just get behind the team and show them that we do support them.

I do not agree with somne of the picks regularly but I would sooner accept it and cheer the team on rather than mouth off (or type off) on here. Remember player do read this board. Something I think I am going to stop. so this will be my final post and will not bother to read any more of the bile from the regular offenders.[/quote]

Well itís up to the coaches to change that, isnít it..... after watching Gloucester now coming good Iím so bleeding irritated

We have lots of very good players. We just need to start playing like a team who will spill blood on the pitch every game. We need some leadership, organisation and passion. This is the Saints we are talking about not some Mickey Mouse club, just sort it out.

Saint 1969
I moan all the time as I believe I have a right to.
Years and years of supporting Saints, spending thousands on Home, away, beer and food etc. Yes itís my choice but as a fan I will always voice my opinion.

Jim and Westís choices of late are in my opinion bemusing and the likes of JP who turns it on every time he gets a chance just frustrates me.

Once again in my opinion the management have done what they can and itís time we paid the fee to off load them before we lose bums on seats that weíll never ever get back!!!

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