Cyberstrike wrote:Megatron meant to say: "that the Decepticons rebuilt them in those caves" in season 1. That's my opinion on that

"built" them new bodies fits better.

Sabrblade wrote:And, like Sto said, the contradictions that exist within the G1 cartoon are very minimal when compared to the more blatant contradictions between the G1 cartoon and the Exodus novel. In the case of the G1 cartoon, its only a few bits and pieces that conflict with each other, whereas it's an entire history of events and entire personalities of characters in the Exodus novel that conflict with the G1 cartoon.

[/quote]

exactly.

Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe

Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds

T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach

Perhaps I need it explained to me or I totally missed something(it's been a couple years since I've watched it), but in the context of the show, Wheeljack never leaves Earth when creating the Dinobots vs. them having to go to Cybertron to give the Aerialbots life and saying that's the only way a Transformer can be created.. That SEEMS like a pretty big difference. Did they explain something somewhere else in the show?

Not sure what the constructicons one is that you mentioned. Is that how they created Megatron, but were then peaceful, created Crystal City and had to be reprogrammed with the Robo Smasher to follow Megatron? If so, I suppose I've never actually heard an explanation fro that one either.

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:I never took the Matrix Vision fully literally when it came to the COnstructicons, myself. Most of them were generic-looking blobs IIRC.

Which is why I worded it as, " individuals who appear to be the Constructicons." I didn't say they were, nor that they weren't, just that they looked to be them.

Though, Hauler's bio references this scene with having him be a former member of the Constructicons, as a nod to how there were eight Constructicon-looking bots in that scene.

Fearing wrote:Perhaps I need it explained to me or I totally missed something(it's been a couple years since I've watched it), but in the context of the show, Wheeljack never leaves Earth when creating the Dinobots vs. them having to go to Cybertron to give the Aerialbots life and saying that's the only way a Transformer can be created.. That SEEMS like a pretty big difference. Did they explain something somewhere else in the show?

Wheeljack didn't grant the Dinobots sparks, but instead built Memory Components to upgrade their brains and thus give them somewhat smarter and more stable artificial personalities.

If one wants to assume that they later got sparks of their own eventually, that's fine. But for what Wheeljack did to make them on Earth, sparks weren't involved.

Fearing wrote:Not sure what the constructicons one is that you mentioned. Is that how they created Megatron, but were then peaceful, created Crystal City and had to be reprogrammed with the Robo Smasher to follow Megatron? If so, I suppose I've never actually heard an explanation fro that one either.

What Sto is saying about that is that some people cite how Megatron said that the Constructicons built on Earth clashes with their backstory given later, in which they already existed on Cybertron and weren't Decepticons until Megatron got to them with the Robo-Smaher. But the line Megatron says about building them on Earth is really uttered only in passing, leaving room for one to say that they built their Earth bodies on Earth.

...though, the episode where we see them on Cybertron in the past shows them already having their Earthen altmodes (and Decepticon symbols to boot!), so this could likely be just an animation error.

Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'

Fearing wrote:Perhaps I need it explained to me or I totally missed something(it's been a couple years since I've watched it), but in the context of the show, Wheeljack never leaves Earth when creating the Dinobots vs. them having to go to Cybertron to give the Aerialbots life and saying that's the only way a Transformer can be created.. That SEEMS like a pretty big difference. Did they explain something somewhere else in the show?

Its a simple explanation.The issue is that theres a difference between what fans perceived, and what was actually said.

They never said the "only way" a Transformer can be created was by going to Vector Sigma.As a mater of fact we have at least 2 TF groups created with out VG, the Dinobots and the Technobots.

What was said, by Optimus, was that there wasnt a way for Megatron "to give his cars Cybernetic personalities like theirs on Earth.

Meaning that Megatron didnt have the ability.

Now, further in the episode they explain what Vector Sigma is and what it does.

It is a "MEGA COMPUTER", which PROGRAMED THEM WITH LIFE.

Key words being a master computer and program.

Vector Sigma programs robots with a simulated artificial life program in mass numbers.

Wheeljack and Ratchet, being extremely smart, but just not smart enough, were able to program life at a more basic primitive lever, which explains the Dinobots.

Grimlock, when given super intelligence, was smart enough to program the Technobots would full normal personalities.

Not sure what the constructicons one is that you mentioned. Is that how they created Megatron, but were then peaceful, created Crystal City and had to be reprogrammed with the Robo Smasher to follow Megatron? If so, I suppose I've never actually heard an explanation fro that one either.

There creating Megatron, [if it was the same team], and then Megatron then having to reprogram them for evil is very easy to explain.

Think about this, even DR.Frankenstein did not intend to create a monster.

Theres no reason to assume the Constructicons that built Megatron [if its the same team] intended for Megatron to be evil and re-start the war.

Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe

Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds

T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach

And TF fans thinking theres a contradiction between Megatrons claim to have "built" the Constucticons and their exsistings on Cybertron of the past.Or thr so called Vector Sigma contradictions.

If you divorce yourself from your nostalgic memories and feelings and what you think you remember, and re-examine the martial from a logical fresh point of view you'll see that , in many cases, there really isint a solid contradiction.

Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe

Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds

T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach

Nah, I would have never remembered the contradictions when I was a kid, I would have just went with it back then. It more comes from watching them a couple years ago. When my first kid was born and he needed to be fed every 3 hours I'd watch my old Rhino DVD's in the middle of the night and whatnot and went through the whole series that way. I think it probably came more from Megatron's statement where he technically DID say he built them on Earth (which, granted, can be taken several ways (in my own mental continuity that I use when reading certain things to make them more of interest to me, the Dinobots bodies would've been built on Earth with sparks that were stored on the ark for whatever reasons, to justify some of the cooler stories with Dinobots on Cybertron fitting in)), and just the fact that I probably never would've thought the Autobots would've made robots like the Dinobots without what essentially equals a soul. I probably never even considered that it would be a possibility. So that makes sense.

As far as Constructicons having Earth vehicle forms on Cybertron, that never really bothered me too much. Calling it an animation error is probably a disservice to some hard working animators, as it was probably intentional and more derived from a limit in the animation budgets that whoever funded the animation wouldn't put in time and money into new character designs to get the animators to work off of since even from the first episode their robot modes were basically made from parts of Earth vehicles as it was.

That explains a lot though. Even when I assumed there were some major plot holes/contradictions there, I usually overlook most of that stuff anyway with the G1 show and view it as a fableized telling of events being retold for childeren, since anything that tries to make reference to it for backstory, like the Dreamwave stuff(even though it technically is it's own universe, it definitely made reference to a fair amount of G1 cartoon stuff as happening in it's past), usually ends up with some hard to reconcile contradictions when you try to completely put the two stories together, but it's nice to see that, taken on it's own, you don't neccessarily have to do that with the show.

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:I never took the Matrix Vision fully literally when it came to the COnstructicons, myself. Most of them were generic-looking blobs IIRC.

Which is why I worded it as, " individuals who appear to be the Constructicons." I didn't say they were, nor that they weren't, just that they looked to be them.

Though, Hauler's bio references this scene with having him be a former member of the Constructicons, as a nod to how there were eight Constructicon-looking bots in that scene.

Ah, sorry. I wasn't commenting on what you wrote. Just a general tiring of people taking Rodimus' Matrix Vision too literally. Even though the Matrix Vision he experienced was refreshingly straightforward compared to a lot of visions I've seen in media, it was still a mental journey and prone to metaphor.

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:Ah, sorry. I wasn't commenting on what you wrote. Just a general tiring of people taking Rodimus' Matrix Vision too literally. Even though the Matrix Vision he experienced was refreshingly straightforward compared to a lot of visions I've seen in media, it was still a mental journey and prone to metaphor.

I should've worded that a bit clearer. My bad.

Tis okay.

Though, I do think Sto has a point in his Frankenstein comparison to G1 Cartoon Megs' birth. Megs' creators (be they the Constructicons or not) might not have been aware of the monster that their creation would become.

Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:Ah, sorry. I wasn't commenting on what you wrote. Just a general tiring of people taking Rodimus' Matrix Vision too literally. Even though the Matrix Vision he experienced was refreshingly straightforward compared to a lot of visions I've seen in media, it was still a mental journey and prone to metaphor.

I should've worded that a bit clearer. My bad.

Tis okay.

Though, I do think Sto has a point in his Frankenstein comparison to G1 Cartoon Megs' birth. Megs' creators (be they the Constructicons or not) might not have been aware of the monster that their creation would become.

thank you

Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe

Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds

T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:Ah, sorry. I wasn't commenting on what you wrote. Just a general tiring of people taking Rodimus' Matrix Vision too literally. Even though the Matrix Vision he experienced was refreshingly straightforward compared to a lot of visions I've seen in media, it was still a mental journey and prone to metaphor.

I should've worded that a bit clearer. My bad.

Tis okay.

Though, I do think Sto has a point in his Frankenstein comparison to G1 Cartoon Megs' birth. Megs' creators (be they the Constructicons or not) might not have been aware of the monster that their creation would become.

Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:Ah, sorry. I wasn't commenting on what you wrote. Just a general tiring of people taking Rodimus' Matrix Vision too literally. Even though the Matrix Vision he experienced was refreshingly straightforward compared to a lot of visions I've seen in media, it was still a mental journey and prone to metaphor.

I should've worded that a bit clearer. My bad.

Tis okay.

Though, I do think Sto has a point in his Frankenstein comparison to G1 Cartoon Megs' birth. Megs' creators (be they the Constructicons or not) might not have been aware of the monster that their creation would become.

thank you

Welcome.

What can I say? You know your stuff.

coming from you, thats a complement.

Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe

Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds

T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach

Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'

Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'

Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'

Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'

Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'