I just wanted to chime in. I got my upgrade disc yesterday and did the upgrade for my 51FD.

To reiterate what others have found already, the menus are smooth. I finally can run DVE-HD and the menus are incredibly quick. The initial load times are good, but as Ruined stated, the disc detection is slow. Top Gun didn’t work for me. After the splash screen it simply just wouldn’t go any further.

I decided to check the different video settings, PDP, LCD, Projector, Pioneer PDP, etc. Compared to the .80a firmware I had, there are actually differences between each of the settings. They’re not huge differences, but they are different. I didn’t do any extensive testing, but I just wanted to see if it actually did make a difference, which it does.

As for the High Speed Transmission, I already reported seeing differences even on the .80a firmware and those differences remain. I checked the DVE-HD color decoder and noticed no defects in the transitions between the different colors and I didn’t notice any difference in terms of results between the High Speed Transmission on or off, so I guess that’s a good thing, right? It doesn’t affect the calibration aspect.

Lip Syncing issues are finally gone (at least so far). Any time I fast forward or chapter skip, the audio and video keep in sync, so I am really happy about that. I did notice when checking the bitrate info, for DTS-HD Master Audio tracks, the max bitrate is only 2.0MB, which makes me think that the player doesn’t initially decode the DTS-HD MA track. It is a moot point to me since I send the signal to my receiver to decode anyway. Just to confirm with my receiver, it did read DTS-HD MA, still, even though the bitrate for the audio was only 2.0MB. So I guess the bitrate for audio only really applies for the player decoded information, or at least I hope so. I was testing it late last night, which didn’t allow me to turn it up because of my wife and daughter. If I find any problems or differences with the DTS-HD MA track I’ll post back again about it.

Overall, I really like this player, but the overall load times leave a little bit to be desired. I’m trusting that Pioneer will improve this as newer firmwares come out.

"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx

I did notice when checking the bitrate info, for DTS-HD Master Audio tracks, the max bitrate is only 2.0MB, which makes me think that the player doesn’t initially decode the DTS-HD MA track. It is a moot point to me since I send the signal to my receiver to decode anyway. Just to confirm with my receiver, it did read DTS-HD MA, still, even though the bitrate for the audio was only 2.0MB. So I guess the bitrate for audio only really applies for the player decoded information, or at least I hope so.

v1.0 firmware only decodes 5.1 dts core, which is why the bitrate meter is stuck at 1.5mbps. Of course bitstream you will get full dts-hdma (but meter will be incorrect). And, Chris has confirmed that a future firmware update will enable full dts-hdma 7.1 decoding for sure.

Though turn on time is fast I agree it would be nice if loading is improved. I see this as possible since half of the loadtimes seen are disc detection algorithm (status LED reading "CLOSE") - something I think that could probably be optimized.

The 5080 does not disappoint, and we all know that it outperformed several 1080p sets in a flat panel shootout earlier this year, in one popular mag.

However, Blu-ray is 1080p and a display that can match that without any scaling makes sense, also. So a 1080p Kuro might make a better choice.

Hasn't Pioneer discontinued 768p models?

Sorry. Let's get back to pioneer 51.

Yes of course the Kuro 1080P makes sense. But if you are really getting into HT get the Kuro 151(for user settings and size) and set about 6.5 -7. feet away for your BD viewing with your new 51/05. This imo gives you the best of both worlds. It will give you the big screen affect that a projector will give you but without the trade offs. Plus there is no need to add something like a $4000+ Radiance XD Video Processor and there by not having one more break in your HDMI line. Every time you add a break in your HDMI line you run the risk of loosing something. Plus you add another 3 feet of HDMI line from your 51/05 to your display. And of course if you go my route you will not want to bolt your Kuro to the wall, you will have at least 2 foot setback from your wall so you can effectively use a good back light.

You are quite correst in the idea that to get the highest possible video quality, your entire chain must be calibrated.

My point is if you truly want a calibrated playback chain, the last thing you want to do is invoke Deep Color or 444 operation because that's not what on the disk.

Before the 8/11 crash I posted a similar reality check about Deep Color. A lot of posters here are very excited about the idea of Deep Color and 444 output. When I ordered my 05 from Magnolia the sales person talked all about deep color.

Does an upconverting DVD player make SD DVD's into HD DVDs? No, it doesn't. If they look better than raw SD is subjective. Same goes for deep "color and 444. You can't make accurate data from what's not there in the first place. You can only guess. It's called interpolation and it's never ideal.

And from my 25 years in the Hollywood mastering community I can assure everyone that Deep Color is a long way off for BluRay. There is no infrastructure to support it and most of that 10bit HD infrastructure is under 5 years old. Too new to coinside scrapping it. Video Games will be the only media with deep colorfor a while.

I would not disagree on what you are saying about Deep Color for two reasons. 1, being what the spects are for BD discs on paper. 2, I still have not gotten my 51 so I have not been able to do a calibration with the 51 and my display. However that being said If you and me along with many other posters know this to be the true definition of "Deep Color" I would hope Pioneer knows this. So what the true definition of "Deep Color" is and what Pioneers definition could be different. So is the "Deep Color" trick simply a "enhancement" feature and if that is the case more than likely i would not use the "enhancement" feature.
The only exception I have made to keeping my settings and calibration as close to the spects of the disc I am using is with my Denon 3930ci. I set the IRE on the denon to 0. and the HDMI color space to YCbCr. I feel that using this along with a full calibration i can over come most of any white or black crushing. And my results are wounder full for my eyes and brain. And what I like to use for the SD film sources as a comparison is Superbit SD-DVDs and how they compare to normal SD-DVD film.

The one thing I am very curious about is what you are saying about QUOTE " the last thing you want to do is invoke Deep Color or 444 operation because that's not what on the disk." Why would you not want HDMI color space of 4:4:4: YCbCr (forget about using Deep Color) if your display is capable of receiving same as mine is. Kuro 150. And what would you say is better?

My point is if you truly want a calibrated playback chain, the last thing you want to do is invoke Deep Color or 444 operation because that's not what on the disk.

Before the 8/11 crash I posted a similar reality check about Deep Color. A lot of posters here are very excited about the idea of Deep Color and 444 output. When I ordered my 05 from Magnolia the sales person talked all about deep color.

Does an upconverting DVD player make SD DVD's into HD DVDs? No, it doesn't. If they look better than raw SD is subjective. Same goes for deep color and 444. You can't make accurate data from what's not there in the first place. You can only guess.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying and I don't expect the Deep Color trick to add much if anything, however, most Blu-ray players are already outputting 10 bit and most digital displays are 10 bit. My point is upsampling of 8 bit Blu-ray disc video is and has been taking place for a while now. Maybe the 51FD can improve upon it with either it's own 10 bit processing or with 12 bit "fake" Deep Color.

Yes, the one off Stevens Creek. I received an ad in the mail today. All it said was to stop by on Fri, Sat, or Sunday during regular business hours. There would be special pricing on all new Pioneer, and Pioneer Elite, products.

How do I know if my hdmi cable is capable of high speed hdmi? I have the high speed transmission set to on. Am I to assume since everyting is working fine that my cable supports it?

Thanks

Jim

If everything works at 1080p/60, particularly if the rest of your equipment supports Deep Color connections, you are good to go.

When HDMI V1.3 came out, one of the things they did was publish stricter design and testing standards for the cables. Same wires, plugs and pinouts, just tougher standards. But to make it a bit easier on the manufacturers they published two DIFFERENT standards, both of them for cables that could carry the new "HDMI V1.3" label. One was for cable designed for connections up to 1080i (typical HDTV set top box use), and the other was for cable (presumably more expensive) designed for connections above that. The latter is the "high speed" cable.

If your cable is labeled as being HDMI V1.3 for 1080p then it is supposed to be up to the strictest standard, i.e., it is "high speed" cable. This is also, sometimes referred to as Category 2, HDMI V1.3 cable.

But any old HDMI cable, even from before the HDMI V1.3 era, *COULD* also work -- depending on how well it was made. Note that this doesn't equate to expensive is better. Even now there's a HUGE price range of cables out there all labeled for HDMI V1.3 at 1080p. They all are supposed to be passing that same strict standard. So an older cable may indeed work fine for you. If you are embedding cable in the wall you will likely want to be more cautious.

Note that if you are running video at less than 1080p/60 at the moment, and don't have a Deep Color connection (perhaps because your AVR or TV doesn't support it), then you are not sending the highest bandwidth HDMI signal over the cable -- which means even a lesser cable may still work fine. In particular, the "high speed" setting in the player may, I suspect, still set up a "lower speed" connection if that's all your AVR or TV will accept.
--Bob

Unreal! Everyone is getting these players and all the VE preorder people are kicked aside and left waiting and now I am starting to get really pissed off. Robert isn't to be found. Very frustrating to say the least.

Unreal! Everyone is getting these players and all the VE preorder people are kicked aside and left waiting and now I am starting to get really pissed off. Robert isn't to be found. Very frustrating to say the least.

This is frustrating as I have already paid a deposit many weeks ago and these people get theirs just by going to BestBuy?

Hey we are getting a DISCOUNT, FREE shipping, and a FREE nice HDMI cable..so not all that bad. I can wait...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronomy

Unreal! Everyone is getting these players and all the VE preorder people are kicked aside and left waiting and now I am starting to get really pissed off. Robert isn't to be found. Very frustrating to say the least.