we do in Devin, but Hoke and company are either, too dumb or arrogant to think that Devin isn't better than Bellomy.. Im actually glad this loss happened so they can wake up for the last part of this year hopefully

If DG doesn't play WR, arguably one of our best athletes isn't on the field. If he's at QB, we are thin at WR. Big mistake was probably not buildng around DG last year. I'm not buying the "he didn't have the work ethic BS." More like he wasn't getting any playing time or mop up duty early in the season and figured no matter how well he competed they were going w/ DR. Ultimately it was a trade off - win ugly early or start building a program you probably don't have the right pieces for anyway.

at his worst was better than bellomy. and tate was a true freshmen. bellomy is a red shirt. i am really shocked how poorly the kid looked despite the circumstances. he has no arm strength and no accuracy. i am really perplexed at what the coaches saw when they offered up the scholarship.

at least gardner showed some ability last year. he needs to move back to QB immediately. WR ain't rocket science. he can still get practice reps there.

True but I think people take for granted just how special of a football player he is and there is no doubt we will miss him next year. He is the most dynamic playmaker I have ever wached at Michigan. Its hard to replace that.

Don't put denard next to woodson and desmond. Those two are in the elite of the history of college football. Both were WINNERS and both played their best in the biggest game. Go look at desmond and charles against OSU, MSU, and in bowl games then go look at denard. It isn't even close.

All this weepy, I appreciate denard, stuff is a joke. Because all the rational people aren't mad at denard but at Borges who is pathetic. And Denard just isn't a quarterback, he doesn't belong back there, he has done amazingly well, but it just isn't him. If borges had any balls, or hoke for that matter, Denard would be a running back/wideout/wildcat and Gardner would have been the quarterback...

Regarding the second paragraph, let's just assume (I don't know one way or another) that all rational people are mad at Borges. Still, I don't see how you could watch the Nebraska and OSU games last year and think that Denard isn't a quarterback. Also, I am not sure what you are basing it on that Gardner would do a better job -- or, more to the point, how switching Denard and Gardner would result in a net plus.

Assuming that you were doing more than just shooting your mouth off, I would like to hear your rationale.

I would like to know what makes you think that Devin is better than Denard at QB? When have you seen him play QB? Was he any good? I have seen the spring games and in minimal game time last year and thought he looked pretty bad. Did you think otherwise?

Or are you making the "anything has to be better than Denard" argument, 'cause brother, I think we just disproved that one (see: Nebraska, 2012, 2nd half).

Denard certainly has limitations, but this kneejerk response is something that only fans can indulge in. Coaches have to deal with the strengths and weaknesses of the players they have.

I typed this whole tl;dr post but all I really want to say is that I only had two points to make and I don't think that they are all that ludicrous.

1.) denard robinson is not close to woodson or Desmond (most aren't).

2.) Borges has put Denard in a place to fail in big games by either asking him to put balls in to too tiny of a window or not letting him run (Alabama).

All the screaming and hollering is just the sting from a frustrating loss last night. I don't come here to bicker and I probably reacted too strongly this morning but like I said the Denard appreciation is unneccessary, we should be spending our time damning Al Borges.

I have never done a diary but maybe I will do one breaking down Denard's stats against top defenses or in 'key' games vs. all other games...

This is hard to ask because the kids safety is always most important. But if they already know he's ready to go against Minnesota, was it really imperative to keep him out for the entire second half? I wonder.

If he had inflammation and nerve compression, he probably got anti-inflammatories and they were hoping they would kick-in in time. If they did, it would relieve the pressure on the nerve and he would regain the strength in his hand and they might have let him back in.

Inflammation will typically peak over 24 hours and then resolve on its own over 24-48 hours (somewhat faster with many of the treatments now available to athletes). Thus they may be anticipating that he will be ready for next week.

It may be a form of neuropraxia - which would be the best case. BUT often these take weeks for a full recovery. We'll see if Denard is able to practice and play this week. If not it may be several weeks and in some cases, 6-8 weeks which essentially is the whole season.

I hope he comes back next week or later in the season but if that was the last game we see him play in a UM uniform, Denard Robinson still had an amazing career and will one day be honored as a Michigan legend.

Wish I could do a poll. Anyone not think Devin should stop taking reps at wr and go back to qb 100 percent of the time? If not for the this year than next? It's not like we throw the ball well or with any frequency anyways

- Devin training at QB means he does not play WR, or at least does not improve at WR.

- I am not sure he is very good at QB given his play in the spring game- not that he can not become better, but not with the limited reps he would get as a #2 QB in the middle of the season. Plus there is the question of this shoulder injury

- If Denard goes out, I do not think we are going very far with either of our other options at QB

- If Denard stays in, I think having Devin available at WR gives us a significant advantage

Now for next year, I think Devin has to be at QB either as #1 or #2- which will be decided in the spring and fall practices- since I seriously doubt we want to play a true freshman QB no matter how skilled he is.

Don't you know? Sugar Shane is gonna lead Michigan to 4 straight national championships during his time here. It has already been universally accepted by the rest of the college football world that this will happen.

Sometimes I wonder if Denard is a crutch for coaching staffs. Is it possible that having him has stunted the growth of the rest of our offense? Maybe I'm just numb and bitter and incredibly disapointed. Nope. No maybe about it.

8 games into his red shirt freshman year I exspected a lot more out of Bellamy. I turned off the game late in the 3rd quarter after Bellamy went 1-9 with a pick and 2 sacks. At that point Gardner or even Kennedy should have been put in the Game.

I can't see any offensive player actually wanting to play for this coaching staff. The preseason hype of this team was a better team with more losses. The offense has taken a huge step back this year while losing 2 players neither of which is ripping up the NFL

8 games into his red shirt freshman year I exspected a lot more out of Bellamy.

You do realize that Bellomy didn't actually play much in the first seven games of the season, right? This was his first extended action of his career. If it had actually been his eighth game I think he'd have done a lot better.

In 2008, 2009, 2010 we were supposed to win 10 games with 1st year QBs. Because thats what Michigan does.

So I guess I'm supposed to be mad at our coaching staff in 2012 because they couldn't even win half a game with a 1st year QB.

The biggest problem with this game was Hoke/Borges' inability to realize that Bellomy clearly wasn't ready after his 4th or 5th drive and give Gardner a shot to run the offense. I'll never understand that level of stubborn.

Actually I'm just pointing out how unrealistic people were then and how unrealistic it was yesterday to expect Bellomy to perform at a high level and how its often the same people who were so critical then that are now so understanding.

But you wouldn't get that.

And if you were being realistic, you'd see that this is literally the only thread I've pointed this out in because it actually ties into what we saw yesterday.

You should probably get over the fact that Rodriguez coached here and is still relevant in discussion about the current team.

Nobody ever talks about the possibility that we have the worst group of wide receivers in FBS history. They cant block, they certainly can't catch unless the ball is buried into their stomachs, and Im sorry, but if you're 5'9" you should have flawless hands, and if you're 6'5" and there's a jump ball, you should not be getting outlept and picked off by a 6'1" corner.

So with this, I ask: What in the hell did we recruit between 2008 and 2010???? We know we didnt recruit either line, linebackers, secondary, but our RBs and WRs are abysmal as well. We literally have 2 good players on offense (Denard and Lewan), 3-4 good players on defense, and no sort of depth.

but I think denard's shitty passing has screwed up our wideouts. When I watched bellomy throw a good ball and hit the guys in the hands they looked surprised...

call it what you will but I think the whole offense is a house of cards and when that main piece is out the cards tumble down... and if the offense would have been built better around a real quarterback we would be less 'explosive' and more productive.

I've been arguing about this with my father every week since we turned around after ND. I asked him what he thinks our offense will be next year. He talks about the scheme, and I simply ask, no, where are the yards going to come from? He never has an answer for that.

Denard isn't perfect. In some ways, his flaws are as notable as his strengths. But he is a magnificent athlete, a special QB and we will miss him frightfully, especially next year. I don't care how many INTs he throw from now until his last day, I will never, never forget what he is done for this program. It would have been a dark few years without him.

This is an interesting question because it is an appropriate one to ask, If we look at the rushing game in particular, since the beginning of the 2010 season, Michigan has amassed 7,638 net yards of rushing, and Robinson is responsible for 3,824 of them, which is 50.1% of our net rushing in 2.67 seasons now. We've scored 82 rushing TDs, 36 of which were scored by Denard Robinson personally, which is good for 43.9% over that same stretch of 2.67 seasons.

It's been discussed in many threads here, but even though Denard Robinson is not the best quarterback in Michigan history on several important metrics, I don't think we've ever had an athlete like him and we may never see such an athlete again, at least not for a long time. Even last night, when the offense clearly isn't working on all cylinders, he is a factor when he is in there and he is a distraction to the opposing "D". It is rare to have a player that electrifying, or to opponents, that intimidating by virtue of sheer athleticism. His contributions should never be forgotten.

If I were coach obrien I seriously would take a 15 yard penalty to spear Braxton miller while he's down. I hate them that much and am that classless that I would like nothing more then to see him concussed again

with a better explanation than this?:

I just hate miller and Meyer that much. I never want to see a kid hurt but I generally have that much hate for those two that I could care less if he were concussed again

Blue, I get what you're going at -- Denard is obviously a smart kid. Every time I've heard him speak he seems to have a wonderful head on his shoulders, and let's be honest: stupid kids don't get degrees at UM. I absolutely love cheering for the kid, and I couldn't be happier that he's on our side.

That said, Denard's football IQ is honestly not very good. He seems to struggle mightily to read defenses prior to the snap, he has struggled with his reads on the zone read option his entire career (either that or he's consistently being coached to hold on to the option a second and a half longer than pretty much every QB I've ever seen). He's also been inconsistent on his passing reads (reference: Aaaaaarrrrrggggh Denard throws).

Denard is an incredible talent and a phenomenal gamer. He plays incredibly hard. But he seems to have struggled to find consistent coaching throughout his career, especially the last two. With Denard at the helm, this is the kind of team that should be up-tempo and letting the coaching staff call audibles on the sideline (I'm in favor of the coaching staff calling audibles for just about anyone not named Luck or Manning, that's not a dig on Denard). Instead our offense seems unable to adapt to what they're seeing. That's obviously not all Denard (I would argue at least half of it is coaching).

Without Denard, this team is probably 7-5 at best. He's such an incredible, dynamic player who changes the tenor of the play on the field simply by being out there. But it's important to remember that he's not perfect, and I really think that criticizing his football IQ is a legitimate point to bring up.

Yes, sorry. I wouldn't say that Denard isn't a smart kid (obviously...if he wasn't, he'd be going to MSU ;)), and considering the other posts in this thread it's obvious that was a troll. I just did feel like he could have made a legitimate point if it were better worded.

The Audibles thing, you're right, is an iffy point of argument. I do feel like Denard's incredibly slow zone reads are helping to contribute to the lack of production out of Fitz this season. At this point, he is what he is, though. The good and bad are just a part of why we love him.

I don't even want to think about next year without Denard. I hope he gets well soon -- our chances to watch him play football in a Michigan uniform are dwindling, and I'll take as many chances as I can get.

I realize I'm going to get negged to hell, but this thread is ridiculous. Without Denard (and Richrod) we would've recruited a QB who had some semblance of an arm, with a downfield threat. The reason our offense can't function without Denard is because we have no downfield threat whatsoever. Whoever we play can simply stack the box and stop our offense with ease.

Once we have a seasoned Shane Morris with a reasonable back-up, we'll laugh on these days.

As promising as Hoke looks at re-installing stability, it is still puzzling that our whole season revolves around one guy or one position, staying healthy. Why not have gardner take reps in practice at QB too so it's not total feast or famine? If Denard is somehow, for some reason not able to return this year, it would not be totally insane to predict an 0-4 finish with Bellomy starting and playing every game.

How is that? How does this staff justify revolving ALL of our offensive potency around a RUNNING quarterback and NOT have a legitimate back up plan, and remain in stable cardiac condition everytime Denard tucks it and runs? I understand it is the reminants of rich rod's philosophy to have whole team's success revolve around one position, but is it above your pay grade to at least have a Steven Threet caliber back up plan????? Ughhhh.

Words can't begin to describe the DERP in this post. "No downfield threat", that's not on Denard, that's on not having a WR who can catch the ball consistently. And as far as Shane Morris goes, are you really putting all your eggs into the basket of a HS who hasn't set foot on campus yet? Jeebus man, I don't want to know what'll happen if he doesn't live up to every single expectation of him

Denard is a wonderful athlete and ambassador for the Michigan program; however, he has become too critical to the team's success. When the outcome of a game rests solely on one man's shoulders, the weight will eventually become too much to bear. I love Denard but his particular skill set has pigeon holed the offense into a manner in which it must revolve around his skills. when he cannot play, this comes back to bite us as evidenced tonight. Furthermore, his skills, while amazing at times, can be nullified by higher end defenses. We now have had three games in one season without scoring a touchdown. Neither Threet nor Sheridan can make that claim. Let us hope that he gets better and we can dance with the girl we brought to the dance for the remainder of the season. Next year brings a new hope and a new set of challenges, but rest assured, our hopes will rely on the entire team and not the shoulders of one young, courageous man.

DG at qb tonite. I'm not a football coach, but that's what I would've done. I thought this game was a loss as soon as Denard went out. So I went to a Halloween party and stopped watching. It was a good decision so I've heard.

I think we'll appreciate him most next year, when he's gone for good. The new starter (whether Shane or Bellomy) is bound to have significant growing pains next year. I was hoping that Devin would be the guy stepping in with some experience to run the offense while Morris developed as his backup, but that doesn't seem likely anymore.

Gardner was a 5-star coming in, and we were set up to have a much smoother transition than what we're likely to have now.

a new day..A day closer to a B1G championship. Denard will be back Saturday, and I have faith in this coaching staff to do what it takes. I just thought we would of had a better backup plan. One thing is clear, if Bellomy is the number two guy, he needs to be more involved in practice. Not saying he isn't more involved, but from what I see, It isn't transferring to the field..Like I said, I love this coaching staff, and I know Michigan is headed for greatness. " Those who stay will be champions ".

Denard has played two full games without a TD this year and half of one last night. I don't blame Denard for any of it. You have to look no further than Borges. He has the most exciting player in college football and he runs the most bland offensive scheme of anyone.

Indisputable, eh? B.S. The replays were inconclusive. Personal foul call on the sideline was hilariously terrible. I almost understand if its a heated rivalry game, but the zebras were clamping down to keep it in hand, but these teams don't hate each other like that yet! He didn't hit him! He didn't even trip him! He grabbed him and held him while they danced sideways outta bounds! He prevented him from being knocked over DAMN IT! You could feel it then, we would be lucky to get outta there with a W.

Denard has been our offense for a while now, which is why we are so hit or miss. If he gets off we put up big numbers. If he can't, we struggle mightily. And, if he's out, we flat out can't move the ball in a forward direction. This makes me very scared for next year. I hope Gardner comes out next week (assuming Denard is out) and puts that to rest with a good performance, but right now I'm worried about a lof of positions next year.

RB - Toussiant is back, but what has he done? Does Rawls or Hayes get a shot, Smith? Rawls seems powerful but not that fast, Hayes seems good, but small. Heck lets throw Thomas in there...he may be our best athlete and RB seems to be a position a freshman can come right in and play. Green we need you now.

QB - Well, that's the big question, Garder or Bellomy, or does Morris step right in? I don't want hate on Bellomy, he deserves credit for gettting thrown into a tough situation. With the tools around him (or lack thereof) and the many drops by the recievers and some bad breaks with the weird pop-up Smith interception etc. many things happened that could have had a better result without him doing anything different. BUT, from what I saw Bellomy doesn't have the tools to be a FBS starting QB, sorry.

WR - Gallon, Dileo, Jackson, Darboh, Chesson, Gardner...yikes again. No real proven player maker there. Maybe Darboh and Chesson come in and provide playmaking, maybe we get Treadwell, maybe Funchess becomes a viable every down pass catching threat at TE. And, Gallon & Dileo is and will continue to be a solid, reliable guys, but not #1 type recievers.

Defensively I don't have as many concerns despite losing some key guys I think our secondary and linebackers will be just fine and I am actually looking forward to seeing some guys get in there like Pipkins & Bolden/Ross. I wonder if Wilson will come or if Robinson will be our SS. Either way, not overly concerned about most of the defense. The one position I am worried about is DE. We have no pass rush.

DE - Roh graduates. Do we play Heitzman, does Clark/Beyer move over, can Taco Charleton step right in, can Wormley recover and be ready?

DE - We get back the Clark/Beyer/Ojemudia combo back but what have they done this year? Do we all of a sudden expect one of these guys to make a big jump? Ojemudia seems most likely, but can he put on enough weight to be effective?

...think about it when Denard is in, defenses don't pass rush, they contain -so the OLine looks -on paper-like they are not allowing sacks. When he is out they can't stop the rush and we already know they don't run block well. The OLine IS THE CONCERN right now. They aren't that good ---- I think Borges has been calling plays to cover up that deficiency too. He can only do so much and his gameplan utilizing Denard is actually pretty good given this year's line. He his really limited when Denard is not in. The only thing I don't understand is why Devin isn't in at QB - I am not as critical of Bellomy as others - he is in a tough spot. Devin's skill set is more akin to Denard's , adn I think right now he gives us a better chance.

After what I just wrote, this thought I have is still there. The coaches must know a little more than we do.

Anyone wishing that Bellomy would get his shot got their wish last night and it was an utter disaster. I'm not ready to jump on the "Bellomy sucks" train by any means, it just shows that next year this could get messy on offense. I appreciate Denard and everything he's done for this program and if anything came out of those three dark years he's been a shining beaconand he's a great kid. Anyone knocking Denard should be very silent after today. We as fans have been absolutely spoiled watching him and I will hate to see him go. It's not his fault that his receivers can't catch a damn thing. He was dealing last night and the drops just can't happen like that. If Denard stays in this game we win hands down. What concerns me most is the run game. Yet again no Rawls when Fitz is struggling and the run game itself can't gain any traction outside of Denard.

Agree that if Denard goes out again Gardner should come it at QB, Bellomy looked nervous and unsure of himself last night and the WR's certainly weren't helping him any. Why they can't catch a ball that hits them in the hands is beyond me. I know Bellomy was charged with 3 INTs last night, but the one on the pass to Smith, was Smith's fault not Bellomy's. How a player can catapult a ball directly to a defender, after he hit's the ground is beyond me.

Your neighbor can also suck it. The guy had a nerve injury and couldn't even grip a ball, they showed him like twice on camera in the second half and they talked about how the trainers were continuing to work with him on motion, and you just assume he was being a bad leader.

Denard never took his helmet off. He didn't sit on the bench with a towel on his head. What, did you want him to run on the field and chest-bump Bellomy after every crappy completion?

writing off Bellomy after his first significant playing time of his career - and that was on the road, against a very capable Nebraska team, and the team behind. Granted it wasn't a good performance, but I will reserve judgement until I see more game experience from him after he's had a lot more snaps with the first team offense in practice too.

Still, I think the coaches will need to turn to Gardner as our backup in case Denard can't play. He's more ready to play QB now than Bellomy, if nothing else but having a lot more experience. And next season, I can't see going into the season with Bellomy and a freshman as our only scholarship QB's. That's asking for trouble.