Please note: we have been online over ten years, and we want The Trek BBS to continue as a free site. But if you block our ads we are at risk.Please consider unblocking ads for this site - every ad you view counts and helps us pay for the bandwidth that you are using. Thank you for your understanding.

Leonard Nimoy

Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.

A 35mm film frame has the equivalent of 25-50 megapixels of usable information, which is about equivalent to a 4,500 line image, but Super Hi-Vision or something like it is at least 20 years from wide adoption

True, the point here is that the series need to be open to future upgrading.

Also, as the article says the best 35mm and HD are already roughly equivalent to human eyesight, because of the lines of res, anything else is just gravy..

I would agree with that. Personally I think an undertaking like this should be done at 4K resolution, the current digital cinema standard. It's not absurdly different than 1080p and would probably future-proof the work for 15 years. At that point 4K will probably be making its way into many homes and they can re-re-release it to cash in again, any maybe justify the extra expense at redoing the effects at a much higher resolution than HDTV... and in the short term you could do some theater screenings a la Fathom Events.

__________________
“Ridicule is the tribute paid to the genius by the mediocrities.”-Oscar Wilde

A 35mm film frame has the equivalent of 25-50 megapixels of usable information, which is about equivalent to a 4,500 line image, but Super Hi-Vision or something like it is at least 20 years from wide adoption

True, the point here is that the series need to be open to future upgrading.

Also, as the article says the best 35mm and HD are already roughly equivalent to human eyesight, because of the lines of res, anything else is just gravy..

I would agree with that. Personally I think an undertaking like this should be done at 4K resolution, the current digital cinema standard. It's not absurdly different than 1080p and would probably future-proof the work for 15 years. At that point 4K will probably be making its way into many homes and they can re-re-release it to cash in again, any maybe justify the extra expense at redoing the effects at a much higher resolution than HDTV... and in the short term you could do some theater screenings a la Fathom Events.

I do hope they scan the film at higher res, and edit it at higher res, but for the CG I'd rather them keep it at 1080p and worry about the next upgrade in 20 years when it's an issue again. If you double the dimensions, you've got 4x the pixels to render, which means roughly 4x the render times for the CG (probably slightly less). This means either more money spent on computers to render, which may mean money taken away from somewhere else, or they have to lower the CG render quality to compensate for the extended render times. Either way I'm seeing a sacrifice would have to be made somewhere, because I don't see CBS putting more money than they have to into this to future proof it when it's not an issue at this point in time.

I think an undertaking like this should be done at 4K resolution, the current digital cinema standard. It's not absurdly different than 1080p and would probably future-proof the work for 15 years. At that point 4K will probably be making its way into many homes and they can re-re-release it to cash in again, any maybe justify the extra expense at redoing the effects at a much higher resolution than HDTV... and in the short term you could do some theater screenings a la Fathom Events.

It's highly doubtful TNG-R would be anything more than pillarbox 1080p. Only major motion pictures get a 4k post production pipeline. Even highest rated current episodic TV series only get 1080p masters.
quick example of May 17 ratings (18-49 category) for previous week for dramas:
Glee FOX 3.7
NCIS CBS 3.5
Criminal Minds CBS 3.3
GREY’S ANATOMY ABC 3.2
all of these are mastered at 1080p.

Mr. B is correct in the additional render time and costs involved for 4K and that is only reserved for major motion pictures.
HDTVs now in 2011 only have penetration in North America of 60%. In 15 years there will not be a 33% (mainstream) of 4K televisions and cable/satellite delivery of 4K TV channels. By then TNG will be a 40 year old TV series. 1080p will be perfectly adequate for it.

BlobVanDam wrote:

I don't see CBS putting more money than they have to into this to future proof it when it's not an issue at this point in time.

Not to mention either that, even if a 4k undertaking were made 15 years from now, I'd much rather they use CGI FX from 2026 to enhance it than 2011 FX...

Just saying...

In any case, that's usually why most films will have SEVERAL remasterings over time, as digital processing technology improves and, more importantly, become cheaper. This is a natural part of the process, as new techniques come out, and old ones are refined and become less expensive, they're deployed over and over again against aging films, to squeeze every bit of quality out of them before the original film stock ages to a point that it's no longer in usable condition and it's lost forever.

By way of example, TOS has been remastered twice, now, hasn't it? If I recall correctly, back in the early 2000's when it first aired on the (then) SciFi channel, it had a quick and dirty remastering at that point, which looked better than most broadcast versions at the time, but was still fairly rough. Contrast with the more recent remastering, which is much more thorough and much better looking (I'm talking about live action film stuff, leaving aside any FX issues for the moment). Even so, I expect there will be another, even more comprehensive mastering at some point in the future, a decade or three down the line.

In any case, I have no doubt that, at some point in the future, TNG, DS9 and Voyager will all get their proper HD remasters and appropriate FX enhancements. The question is whether that time is now, or at some point later on. It would be nice to have it now, but I don't have a problem with waiting.

The good thing, regardless of when it happens, is that, when it does, I'm sure whoever supervises the remaster will definitely make sure to get a proper 35mm archival version of the series to ensure that all this extra work will not have to be gone through again in the future, should future, even more advanced remasters happen.

TOS has been remastered twice, now, hasn't it? If I recall correctly, back in the early 2000's

yes in 1999. telecined at 1080i.

for broadcast on the Sci-Fi Channel. Fully digital, high-definition transfers were done of all the episodes in the series, using the original film interpositives from the studio's vaults. Then, the D1 master tapes were "cleaned" using special digital filters to reduce the amount of dust and dirt visible. The result, on virtually every episode, is a crisp and vibrant picture, with terrific contrast and lush, accurate colors. The video isn't exactly reference quality. There's a lot of grain that shows on the print, which results in some artifacting and blotchiness after MPEG-2 compression. You'll also still see occasional dust and scratches on the film. And there's been some kind of digital edge enhancement applied to the video, because some of the edges seem unnaturally sharp

Food for thought...STNG made $500 MILLION from syndication fees, it made $90 million a YEAR in its original airing in advertising revenue, plus $70 million from licensing and affiliate station fees(according to California Business). This does not count merchandising or DVD sales (also $455 million from the movies, not counting merchandising or DVD/Bluray sales, add at least another $200-250 million to that figure). By itself in terms of the actual airing of the show, its beyond a billion $ industry...now how much do you think it would make from Netflix...Itunes....Bluray? There is no way this is not getting made...

RAMA

__________________
You cannot go against nature
Because when you do
Go against nature
It's part of nature too

I think an undertaking like this should be done at 4K resolution, the current digital cinema standard. It's not absurdly different than 1080p and would probably future-proof the work for 15 years. At that point 4K will probably be making its way into many homes and they can re-re-release it to cash in again, any maybe justify the extra expense at redoing the effects at a much higher resolution than HDTV... and in the short term you could do some theater screenings a la Fathom Events.

Food for thought...STNG made $500 MILLION from syndication fees, it made $90 million a YEAR in its original airing in advertising revenue, plus $70 million from licensing and affiliate station fees(according to California Business). This does not count merchandising or DVD sales (also $455 million from the movies, not counting merchandising or DVD/Bluray sales, add at least another $200-250 million to that figure). By itself in terms of the actual airing of the show, its beyond a billion $ industry...now how much do you think it would make from Netflix...Itunes....Bluray? There is no way this is not getting made...

RAMA

Since the entirety of the Netflix deal is for $200 million for many Paramount properties... I'd say not much.

__________________
"...the most elementary and valuable statement in science, the beginning of wisdom, is I do not know." - Lt. Commander Data, "Where Silence Has Lease"

Food for thought...STNG made $500 MILLION from syndication fees, it made $90 million a YEAR in its original airing in advertising revenue, plus $70 million from licensing and affiliate station fees(according to California Business). This does not count merchandising or DVD sales (also $455 million from the movies, not counting merchandising or DVD/Bluray sales, add at least another $200-250 million to that figure). By itself in terms of the actual airing of the show, its beyond a billion $ industry...now how much do you think it would make from Netflix...Itunes....Bluray? There is no way this is not getting made...

RAMA

Since the entirety of the Netflix deal is for $200 million for many Paramount properties... I'd say not much.

That doesn't include remastered though does it! its only the current series. Then there is itunes and Bluray...

RAMA

__________________
You cannot go against nature
Because when you do
Go against nature
It's part of nature too

Food for thought...STNG made $500 MILLION from syndication fees, it made $90 million a YEAR in its original airing in advertising revenue, plus $70 million from licensing and affiliate station fees(according to California Business). This does not count merchandising or DVD sales (also $455 million from the movies, not counting merchandising or DVD/Bluray sales, add at least another $200-250 million to that figure). By itself in terms of the actual airing of the show, its beyond a billion $ industry...now how much do you think it would make from Netflix...Itunes....Bluray? There is no way this is not getting made...

RAMA

Since the entirety of the Netflix deal is for $200 million for many Paramount properties... I'd say not much.

That doesn't include remastered though does it! its only the current series. Then there is itunes and Bluray...

RAMA

I'm just saying that the current Netflix deal doesn't seem to value any of the Trek properties all that highly. And if it is a go for the fall... I'd imagine it was already part of the negotiated deal.

__________________
"...the most elementary and valuable statement in science, the beginning of wisdom, is I do not know." - Lt. Commander Data, "Where Silence Has Lease"

Since the entirety of the Netflix deal is for $200 million for many Paramount properties... I'd say not much.

That doesn't include remastered though does it! its only the current series. Then there is itunes and Bluray...

RAMA

I'm just saying that the current Netflix deal doesn't seem to value any of the Trek properties all that highly. And if it is a go for the fall... I'd imagine it was already part of the negotiated deal.

Oh CBS is pretty shrewd...the deal for TOS on Nick and TOS-R in syndication were separate for example....god I forgot the possible syndication rights for STNG-R...wow.

RAMA

__________________
You cannot go against nature
Because when you do
Go against nature
It's part of nature too

That doesn't include remastered though does it! its only the current series. Then there is itunes and Bluray...

RAMA

I'm just saying that the current Netflix deal doesn't seem to value any of the Trek properties all that highly. And if it is a go for the fall... I'd imagine it was already part of the negotiated deal.

Oh CBS is pretty shrewd...the deal for TOS on Nick and TOS-R in syndication were separate for example....god I forgot the possible syndication rights for STNG-R...wow.

RAMA

I swear RAMA, sometimes I think you get a woody talking about this stuff.

__________________
"...the most elementary and valuable statement in science, the beginning of wisdom, is I do not know." - Lt. Commander Data, "Where Silence Has Lease"

I'm just saying that the current Netflix deal doesn't seem to value any of the Trek properties all that highly. And if it is a go for the fall... I'd imagine it was already part of the negotiated deal.

Oh CBS is pretty shrewd...the deal for TOS on Nick and TOS-R in syndication were separate for example....god I forgot the possible syndication rights for STNG-R...wow.

RAMA

I swear RAMA, sometimes I think you get a woody talking about this stuff.

Damn, there's nothing like the thought of SOMEONE ELSE MAKING BILLIONS!

RAMA

__________________
You cannot go against nature
Because when you do
Go against nature
It's part of nature too