As Royals’ fans, we are a jaded group. That has never been so evident as the immediate reactions that were voiced and written as we all got wind of the trade of Zack Greinke to the Brewers. Primarily, the return was widely disparaged simply because, well, because it was the Royals getting the return.

With this organization’s track record, over multiple owners and general managers, who can argue with the logic that if the Royals traded an elite player whatever they got back must have been a bad deal. Going off the top of my head and without getting into a debate over who was ‘elite’ and who was not, here is a partial list of players the royals have received:

Given that list, I get the skepticism. I also understand the concerns that Dayton Moore, like Allard Baird before him, limited the market by insisting on ‘up the middle major league ready talent’. It might well be that some teams gave up early or never called to inquire on Greinke figuring that they did not have those type of prospects. How would the above list look if Robinson Cano was there instead of Mark Teahen?

However, Moore was also at times said to be looking for a major league ready pitcher with ‘Greinke-like’ potential as part of any deal. While I think Jake Odorizzi might some day be very good, no one is expecting him to become an ace. So, it seems that the Royals at least were willing to entertain offers that were not exactly in line with their supposed demands. I wonder just how much of the market really was excluded?

We know that the Washington Nationals had an offer out there and that Zack refused to waive his no-trade clause to them. Talented reliever Drew Storen and shortstop Danny Espinosa were supposedly part of the deal, but it is unclear if Jordan Zimmerman was and who else might have been involved. What we do know is the deal that actually took place and the waves of angst that followed.

Ignoring the casual fan, the ones that lamented Jose Guillen being traded, there was still a pretty wide swath of ‘the Royals didn’t get near enough’ pasted across the Internet. Alcides Escobar can’t hit, Lorenzo Cain has limited upside, Odorizzi is ‘fine for A ball’ and Jeffress likes the happy weed too much. Given the above few paragraphs, I can understand the immediate swing to the negative, but it sure seems to be getting a little annoyed. I say that, by the way, fully cognizant that our own site and myself have certainly beat the Royals’ organization over the head more often than not, but then it’s not like those opportunities have been hard to come by the last ten years.

Prior to the 2010 season, Alcides Escobar was the Brewers’ number one prospect (according to Baseball America), while Lorenzo Cain was number eight, Jake Odorizzi was number nine and Jeremy Jeffress was thought to have the best fastball in that organization. Of course, an entire season has transpired since those rankings were made and one of the worst things a top prospect can do to hurt his reputation is to, you know, play games.

Beyond that, the four players fit the stereotype of so many others brought in by Dayton Moore: two position players known for their speed and two pitchers who feature a fastball and a curve. We have heard those traits a lot in the past and been disappointed more often than not. That said, some guys who can really run, can also really play baseball and some pitchers (a lot actually) have good careers throwing fastballs and curves.

While the full impact, positive or negative, may not be known until Odorizzi makes the majors in a couple of years and Jeffress has hopefully managed to stay clean AND be a power reliever for a period of time, I am going to focus this morning on the two position players. These are the two guys that are going to be the ones dealing with the Perez/Teahen/Berroa/Buck comparisons and also the two were are going to see the most of the soonest.

Next to Billy Butler batting third, Jeff Francoeur playing right field and Joakim Soria closing, the surest thing about the 2011 roster is that Escobar will be playing shortstop. Alcides Escobar had, without question, a pretty awful rookie season. The defensive abilities he showed in the minors surfaced in his rookie season as flashes of brilliance interspersed with bouts of inconsistency. That said, Escobar’s UZR/150 of 4.7 still ranked eighth out of twenty-one qualified shortstops in the majors. Defensive metrics over just one season can be wildly inaccurate, so Escobar is something of an unknown quantity in this area, but his minor league career was generally one in which scouts, prospect analysts and the Brewers’ organization wondered if this great defender could hit enough to justify a job. For now, I feel pretty confident that Escobar either already is or will shortly become the best defensive shortstop to play for the Royals since the turn of the century.

Of course, the days of the defense only shortstop are long since past and there are questions about Escobar’s offense. He hit just .235/.288/.326 last season for a paltry OPS+ of just 67. Some of that was due to an unlucky .264 BABIP, but much of Alcides’ problems were an inability to control the strike zone and work the count to his advantage. Tough rookie year or a guy who cannot hit major league pitching?

It is worth noting, however, that Escobar’s best minor league seasons at the plate occurred as he reached the higher levels of the minors. After three fairly poor offensive years his first three years in pro ball, Escobar hit .325/.345/.377 in half a season in High A before moving to AA ball, where he struggled some. However, in AA the next season, Alcides hit a very good .328/.363/.434 and then moved onto AAA the next season where he hit .298/.353/.409. During his one AAA season, Escobar walked 32 times in 487 plate appearances versus 31 in 110 more plate appearances the year before in AA. Hey, the guy is not a walk machine, but he improved from AA and AAA.

In the end, Alcides Escobar may never consistently hit to his minor league career line of .293/.333/.377, but I think there is a better than reasonable chance that he will hit better than the frankly awful rookie season numbers of 2010. Can Escobar ever be an All-Star? Does he have to be if Mike Moustakas and Eric Hosmer are?

Now, Lorenzo Cain does not have the luxury of two of the best hitting prospects in baseball on the horizon to flank him. While Cain is expected to be a good, if still somewhat raw, defensively (it’s noteworthy that Cain did not play baseball until high school), the Royals need their centerfielder to hit. Of course, if Alex Gordon hits 35 home runs and Jeff Francoeur reverts to his rookie form, then the pressure is off – but then, this column is optimistic enough – let’s not get carried away.

Cain hit a solid .306/.348/.415 in 47 games for Milwaukee last year, helped considerably by a .370 BABIP. While that may be cause for alarm, Cain did post a BABIP above .340 in FOUR of six minor league campaigns and one of those off-seasons was in 2009 when most of the season was derailed to an ankle injury. Frankly, do we have any real reason to think Lorenzo cannot hit close to his minor league numbers of .291/.366/.416 and possibly add some power to those numbers given his 6’2″ 200 pound frame?

While I am certainly being optimistic, what’s the real harm? As Royals’ fans, knowing that Alcides Escobar and Lorenzo Cain are going to be in your everyday lineup in 2011, why not give them the benefit of the doubt. Sure, Cain has had an abnormally high BABIP for most of his career, so has Mike Aviles and David DeJesus and a slew of other guys who can basically hit.

Yes, Escobar was awful as a rookie, just as Omar Vizquel did. Truth is, Alcides was the Brewers’ number one prospect last season and number freaking twelve in all of baseball. A bad rookie year suddenly makes this guy a bad player who ‘will never hit’?

Come on, let’s all take a breath on this one.

Should we get to September and Escobar still isn’t hitting a lick and doing his Angel Berroa impression in the field, Lorenzo Cain is taking curious routes to fly balls and hitting an empty .275, Jeffress is suspended and Odorizzi getting lit up in High A ball, then you can feel free to write me and say ‘I told you so’.

For now, however, let’s give these guys a chance before we decide this deal was horrible. Jurickson Profar may or may not have been offered by the Rangers and while it would be fun to have him in the system, it would also be 2014 before he even sniffed the majors. By the way, tell me the difference between the minor league numbers of Profar or Danny Espinosa and those of Alcides Escobar.

As Royals’ fans, we have plenty to worry about this season. Namely, a rotation that starts with Hochevar and ends with ‘gee, I don’t know, somebody’. I will be the first to lead the charge when Melky Cabrera starts six of the first eight games in leftfield in front of Alex Gordon (or five of seven in front of Lorenzo Cain in center), but I am content to say that the four players the Royals received for Zack Greinke might, just might, be a pretty decent return after all.

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I’m not concerned about Jeffress’ weed usage. He’s on the 40 man, and those guys can’t be tested for marijuana. So he can smoke away without the side-effect of gettting caught.

Written by seelztlb about 4 years ago.

@Nick, LOL. Gotta love the MLB drug policy.

@Clark, couldn’t agree more with every single point you made.

Written by Ted about 4 years ago.

It is now being reported that Greinke was willing to waive his no-trade clause for a trade to NY, but the Yankees balked at the proposal because of fears that Greinke wouldn’t handle NY well.

The reported offer was for Montero and Eduardo Nunez.

Written by Dave about 4 years ago.

Great take on the trade. I’m a fan of another ML team, though ever since finding this site I can’t help but root for the Royals. My friends think I’m crazy – I think I’m on the cutting edge. In two years, all your prospects should be ready to dial it up and I’ll have been in on the ground floor when everyone was recovering from this deal.

Here is something to chew on. If the Royals open the season with 12 pitchers and 13 position players, of the 13: you will have 2 catchers, Butler, Kila, Getz, Escobar, Aviles, Betemit, Gordon, Cain, Cabrera, and Francoeur with one more spot. So. . . Maier or Blanco is gone for sure and they have talked about Betemit being a utility guy, but he does not play 2nd or SS. To me, it seems like they are probably leaning more towards Moose having a shot to make the club out of spring training. My guess is that they will have Blanco or Maier as another spare OF and have Moose as the starting 3B with Aviles batttling with Getz for 2B and Betemit being our utility guy .

I know that everyone is talking about not having his clock start early, but what is it really going to matter when our payroll with be $40M in 2012? We will have the cash to sign Moose when he reaches arb.

Written by Jeff E. about 4 years ago.

Gee Nick you are displaying your pragmatic and practical side. There are perks to being on the 40 man roster. Let’s just hope Jeffress is not dropped and then decides to partake of that most vile and evil weed…but if he be still smokin’ some reefer we can just keep him on the 40 man roster for both his and our protection. In the meantime, I will be waiting on all those can’t miss prospects to start arriving in literal waves beginning in 2012 just like the last bunch of sure fire prospects such as Colt Griffin, Alex Gordon, Luke Hochevar, Chris Lubanksi, Mike Stodolka, Matt Campbell, et al. If Baseball America, Baseball Prospectus, Dayton and Ned all say we have a “good farm system” then we all know we will be packed with talent and winning pennants in 2013 and beyond with this big wave of can’t miss guys. I googled other teams and their farm systems and was very surprised to find that there a lot of teams with “good farm systems” and can’t miss prospects too but I don’t believe that because, as we all know, the Royals have an even better farm system.

Written by Abh about 4 years ago.

I think they are going to be so terrible for 2011 that Moose (and everyone else) might as well spend as much time at AAA as can be justified. Practice hitting off those crafty AAA veteran pitchers.

Wayland, I don’t think there is a chance in hell that moose is the opening day third baseman. I’ve been wrong many times before, but I’d wager on this one. I think both blanco and maier are gone and the team will be light on up the middle backups, but getz can play ss if needed and aviles can play 2b.

Nobody was calling those royals prospects other than gordon “can’t miss”.

Written by Ted about 4 years ago.

Nick, do you think Cain begins the season in AAA, or on the bench?

Written by Abh about 4 years ago.

Can someone educate me on the challenge (or benefit) of Cain/Escobar going from Miller Park to Kauffman Stadium, and from the (weaker, I believe?) NL to the AL??? If their talents were more established I think it might be a more revealing comparison, but I am curious whether the league/park charge are likely to help or hinder their performance. I think Greinke is going to be amazing in Milwaukee.

I think he is on the bench on opening day. It’s not the way I’d play it, but I think it’s the way the Royals are going to play it. I hope I’m wrong and cabrera or jeffy lockerroom is on the bench, but I think that’s unlikely.

abh, I’d say that in terms of ballpark, there shouldn’t be a significant change either positive or negative for the players. I don’t believe that a hitter moving leagues is as significant as a pitcher. I think that what cain and escobar did in 2010 for the brewers is similar to what they would’ve done for the Royals. more will depend on their development than on league. My opinion.

Written by Clark Fosler about 4 years ago.

Wayland – I heard Dayton Moore on 610 (before the trade) asked what would happen if Moustakas hit .460 this spring and Moore still made it sound like he would start in AAA. Important quote, since Mike is not on the 40 man roster, he can be brought up pretty early in the year (earlier than if he was on the 40 man, I guess) and still gain that extra year before free agency.

I don’t think Moose has a shot at opening day, but sometime May? Very likely. I think Aviles is the utility guy AND the starting third baseman. When they need a shortstop/second baseman, Aviles slides over ther with Betemit in at third.

I think you are dead right on either Blanco or Maier being gone with the other being the 5th OF. Dyson to AAA almost assuredly, I think.

Like Nick and some of you, it is possible Cain is on the bench to start the season, which I will truly, truly hate. I know the Royals promised Francouer everyday work, did they do the same to sign Melky?

Written by kcrb about 4 years ago.

other than hoping cabrera gets hurt…the lineup is exactly what i was thinking…except butler at dh and kila at 1b..
i personally think the trade was a good one…but time will tell

Written by Kyle about 4 years ago.

If Cain isn’t starting in CF to start the year, what was the point of this trade? Cabrera will make for a nice 4th outfielder. If Butler is starting at 1B, I will be very upset. Kila is a much better defensive option than Butler. Hopefully at some point next year, Moustakas and Hosmer are maning the corners.

I am not a huge fan of this trade, but I am also not really upset with it. Escobar and Cain are still young, and have tons of upside defensively. Odorizzi is still probably only the 4th or 5th best pitching prospect the Royals have. That is saying more about the depth of the Royals farm system than anything. Jeffress should make for a very nice setup man moving forward.

My main concern is about the rotation. There are no FA starters out there that i would want to waste money on. Could Pavano be had for 2-3 years at 5-8 mil per year?

Written by Ted about 4 years ago.

I hope you are wrong about Cain, but I have a sickening feeling in my gut that you might be right. But I am still choosing to be optimistic, and for now I choose to assume that Cain will start the year as a regular, either in KC or Omaha. Either one is probably fine with me.

Written by Kyle about 4 years ago.

I think that Maier and Blanco are both gone now. If Dyson is back in AAA, what happens to Lough, D.Robinson, Orlando, etc.?

now, just because a guy doesn’t get the nod on opening day, doesn’t necessarily mean he won’t get a bulk of the playing time. If Melky gets the OD start since he is a veteran, I’m mostly ok with that. Kind of letting cain know that he needs to respect the fact that cabrera is a veteran and he gets that marquee start. Its only one game. If cain gets 120-140 games in CF, I’m fine with that, even if he doesnt start on opening day.

so I’m less concerned about who plays OD than who gets the most starts. I’m optimistic that the Royals will give Cain the vast majority of starts in CF.

“I think that Maier and Blanco are both gone now. If Dyson is back in AAA, what happens to Lough, D.Robinson, Orlando, etc.?”

If they go with 5 OF (including gordon) then I think they keep one of the two. Probably Blanco. dyson will go to AAA for sure. Acquring Cain told you everything you need to know about what the royals think of dyson. Lough, drob and orlando probably make up the AAA OF with maybe orlando in AA. a couple might get sept callups, or earlier if there is an injury/trade of melky, frenchy.

Also, after trading Greinke and no real #1 starter on the team this season, AND Moore talking about how exciting it will be for guys to come in and compete for a starting position on the team . . . What would be better for putting butts in the seats than having him up here to start the season?

“What would be better for putting butts in the seats than having him up here to start the season?”

Nothing. But this isn’t about selling seats in 2011. Its about winning games in 2016 and beyond.

Written by fb0252 about 4 years ago.

The first two players are 24 yrs. old. the lack of musculature that shows in their photos indicates they are other than dedicated athletes. transferred now to an org. known for never improving players. for my part, does it make a difference(in terms of above .500 baseball) who comes through here until the management team changes?

Written by Abh about 4 years ago.

Sometime during 2011, I’m sure Mr. Moore’s “goalposts” will move back to 2014-15-2016-2017. Seems like a couple years ago, it was always 2012-2013, now he ALWAYS mentions 2014 when talking about the good times (yet) to come. I mean, these prospects need at least 3 years to get ready for primetime, right?

Written by Jeff E. about 4 years ago.

Then after they go prime time we need to move them a couple of years before free agency to maximize their trade value so as to get a whole lot more can’t miss prospects which we can keep for a couple of more years before we move them for more can’t miss prospects.

Written by GordonB about 4 years ago.

Royals didn’t know they would be getting Cain when they signed Melky and Dayton said he’d rather have too many than too few players. Melky is *only* making 1million, if Cain earns the spot, I think they give it him. Too many times I think Royals fans forget about the benefit of pressure from other players to bring out your A Game. We’ve not had the benefit in KC for a long time, but now that there is competition, we act like the sky is falling. Lets get to Spring Training and watch Outfielders earn their way onto the roster/starting spots.

Written by Clark Fosler about 4 years ago.

I don’t know, Cain is not what I would call ‘slightly built’. He may not be a specimen, but certainly looks athletic to me. As for Escobar, I’m not sure how muscular I want my rangy, fast shortstop to be.

As for the goalposts, I’m not sure it takes every prospect 3 years to be ready. Some guys hit the ground running (David Wright comes to mind) and IF (Big IFs I know) Moustakas and Hosmer are both the real deals it is probably realistic to think that part of 2011 and 2012 will have them ready for ‘primetime’ by April of 2013. I still think it is realistic to look for the Royals to be contenders in 2013.

Of course the real key is now, is not the position players, but getting number one and two starter level ability by 2013 from two of Montgomery, Lamb, Duffy, Crow and Dwyer.

Written by Thaddeus about 4 years ago.

I think you have to take into account that Gordon may be the odd man out in the outfield. Melky can play left with Cain in center. It is a scenerio I think everyone (except Melky) will hate, but it is a possibility. What do the Royals do if Gordon hits .225 in Spring Training? I don’t think with the competition in the outfield that Gordon will be handed Left Field. I think the Royals are going to make him earn it. Just like I think whoever starts in center will have to earn it as well.

My real concern is for the pitching staff. I know that we are going to sign some crusty veteran to eat innings (a pitching version of Jason Kendall) and “mentor” the younger guys. I am almost ok with that though (although Moore will get eaten up for it in the blogs). I don’t think you can go into opening day with Hoechevar as your #1 and Davies as your #2 (that hurt just to write that). I am really scared that this is going to rush some of this pitching talent to the big leagues.

I don’t care if Greinke would not the be opening day starter. I would much rather go see this lineup on opening day than: DeJesus, Pods, Butler, Ankiel, Guillen, Bloomquist, Betancourt, Kendall, and Getz. I know that I will go see more games this year than I did last year. I want to see what these young guys can do and I am way more excited about this season than last season.

Look, the Royals have made some major mistakes in the past. I’ve criticised them often for them, and will do so when they happen in the future. But if you can just ignore the past regressions and look at what we have on our hands, its like….i hate to sayit….but i’m gonna….they have a process which is working.

they’ve systematically created the greatest farm system in a long time, theyve cleared the payroll in 2012, they’ve shown the willingness to spend money when they need to. They are in a position that they can promote players at nearly every position who could be major league regulars, and have the money and budget to go get any other peices needed. maybe i’m insane, but I’m really excited for whats coming.

“Does Jeffress have the chance to be in the pen come opening day? Or do they stay cautious and keep him in the minors to begin with?”

I think its a possibility, but I have a feeling he starts in AAA and is the first guy to get the call up. I think Tim collins is on the ML roster OD.

Written by Kyle about 4 years ago.

I don’t think they are done yet. Hochevar will not be the opening day starter. I do like the direction this team is going. I really hope that Moustakas is given an opportunity to start in KC. This does seem like a more exciting team 4 out of 5 games. I will miss what Greinke brought to the table every 5th day, but I think the Royals came out on top. There are table setters with speed at the top and bottom of the lineup, and there are big time playmakers in the middle of the order that can clear the bases. Once Moustakas, Hosmer, Myers, and others fill in the middle, this team could be something special.

The rotation is going to be fine after this year. There will be plenty of room on the payroll to grab a big time pitcher like a Zack Greinke after the 2012 season.

Written by Ted about 4 years ago.

Any thoughts on trying to get a Chris Young or John Maine to pitch in KC next summer? Might not be better than what we have. I really don’t know what to think about the remaining free agent pitchers. Pavano is looking more gettable, as the number of teams willing to pay him keeps decreasing. I feel confident that the Twins don’t want to commit three years to him; the Rangers likely won’t either; and the Nationals, though wildcards this offseason, probably aren’t that desperate for starters either. Two years at $10 or 11 million? Would he be worth it?

I don’t really see the benefit of getting a Free agent pitcher right now. the pickings are slim, the ones willing to come to KC is even slimmer and the money is better spent waiting for the future.

Written by Ted about 4 years ago.

Or trade for Blanton. Can’t remember what he is owed, but last I remember reading was that the Phillies might be willing to pay part of his salary.

Written by Abh about 4 years ago.

The exciting thing for the Brewers is, they have a real shot at a division title, and say for instance Zack pitches somewhere between ’09 and ’10 level (not too unlikely considering he gets to face opposing pitchers now)… They could make the playoffs, collect two draft picks if Fielder signs elsewhere, and Melvin could potentially get nearly as much talent back for Zack one year from today if he chooses. And THAT is why it’s so sad we remain in perpetual rebuilding mode, hopeing for an eventual payoff. Maybe. In a couple years.

Written by Thaddeus about 4 years ago.

I think this is the first time I have ever heard of a club where the AAA club would beat the ML team in a 7 game series. It may not even be close…

I think that is a testiment to how bright the future will be and how bad the present is.

Written by Clark Fosler about 4 years ago.

Of course, ABH, if the Brewers lose Fielder and trade Greinke, they’ll also be a ‘couple of years’ away from the playoffs again, but your point is valid.

That said, if out of Moustakas, Hosmer and Myers, the Royals get ‘their Braun and Fielder’, then in two years they could go out and get a hired gun for a year (King Felix anyone?) to put them over the top. Let him go and collect two draft picks of their own and still be in contention (that assumes two of the young pitchers are very good, of course).

If the Royals start Melky ahead of Cain, I will go scorched earth on this team. Hell, I was kind of planning on it if Melky started ahead of Blanco.

I always felt a Greinke trade would accelerate Project 2012 where we would see an early influx of youth. Then again, I always felt a Greinke trade would net a stud prospect. As such, this does nothing to alter the timetable.

Written by Sean about 4 years ago.

That’s assuming we would lock up any of these young guys if they blossom. It’s one thing to lock up DeJesus who had a minimumal ceiling that you could get at $6mil a year. But if Moose, Hosmer and Myers actually pan out like a “Braun and Fielder”, we are talking serious years and money. Especially if we still aren’t winning. All we have is hope. Hope that our farm kids become major league stars, and we have to hope the management actually locks them up. Someone like Greinke is unreplaceable. Beltran proved it. How many jokers have manned CF since? Who is our last guy to drive in 100 an score 100? He was doing that anually until he was sold him off for 10cents on the dollar. It will be frustrating to not see Cain and Gordon play everyday because Melky and Frenchy had to be signed. Which asks the question…if he demanded up the middle help/CF help in a Greinke deal, a deal he knew he had to make, why sign those 2 before seeing how our roster would shake out? Melky and Frenchy would still be unemployed by spring training had he waited. And if they weren’t, who cares.

Written by Ted about 4 years ago.

Sean: Braun signed a club-friendly extension. So did Longoria. As did Pujols the first time around. Heck, so did Greinke. And Soria for that matter. It happens.

I say we table the predictions of being unable to sign guys in 7-8 years from now until we’re just a little bit closer to that.

Written by Abh about 4 years ago.

Wonder if Moore even called on Austin Kearns and Travis Buck before inking Frenchy?

Written by Clark Fosler about 4 years ago.

Quick thought on money. Barring something unforseen, I’ve got the Royals’ payroll at something under $50 million this year and, with Meche coming off the books next winter, certainly no more than that in 2012. If the Royals basically ‘broke even’ with a payroll around $65 million, what if Glass banks the excess. By the winter of 2012, he could lock up two or three guys who have proven themselves (hopefully) and with the $30 million saved in 2011-2012, essentially be getting the first year ‘free’ – relatively speaking.

The Royals are never going to be a ‘big’ payroll team, but if they can keep some of their hoped for young studs for the long term via the above and start winning, is it feasible to think that Glass could carry a $85-$90 million payroll without losing any money? I think it might be.

fb0252-“the lack of musculature that shows in there photos indicates they are other than dedicated athletes….”

I’m beginging to think more & more that this poster is hitting the nail on the head with his analysis of the teams core problem even if it is done with a rhythmic tone to it!

Written by Abh about 4 years ago.

Don’t forget they will need to allocate dollars for long-term extension with “In-Game Host” Tim Scott.

Written by kcghost about 4 years ago.

Heck, nobody has a problem with giving these guys a chance. Do we have any other choice?? But, seriously, how can anybody be happy when you trade a #1 away and you don’t get a single guy back who would be considered a top five prospect in your organization?? Sure our farm system looks loaded right now, but remember GMDM has yet to deliver anyone from our farm system that he drafted who has done squat.

But that doesn’t mean we still shouldn’t storm the gates at Royals Stadium and demand the immediate ouster of GMDM. For the umpteenth time in a row he has jumped at the first shiny object to go by him. He had all the cards and all he had to do was to wait for a block buster offer.

“But, seriously, how can anybody be happy when you trade a #1 away and you don’t get a single guy back who would be considered a top five prospect in your organization?? ”

Well, when you have the best top 5 in all of baseball, that’s almost impossible to do. I’d venture to guess that there are maybe 20 prospects at most who are better than our #5 guy, and thats being generous. Few if any of them were available for trade. So I won’t use that as a basis for my evaluation of the trade.

“Sure our farm system looks loaded right now, but remember GMDM has yet to deliver anyone from our farm system that he drafted who has done squat. ”

only 1 player he’s drafted has played a single inning in the majors, and it’s Greg Holland. so it’s a tad early to be critical of daytons drafts.

How does anyone know what was offered to the Royals besides DM? There has been whispers of Greinke being traded for quite some time. I’m sure that DM got lots of informal offers on telephone calls and knew what the market was willing to pay for Greinke. We, as outsiders, cannot speculate that DM should have waited because we would have received more in a trade later. What if we waited until Spring Training and Greinke chose to not show up and force a trade. I wonder what we could have gotten then? Not too much.

It is the same with saying that we should have waited to trade DeJesus. How does Werth signing an insane deal with the Nationals mean that anyone would have spent more to acquire DJ?

Also, I forget where I read this, but why would a team trade several “future all-stars” that “can’t miss” for one player who is an all star? A lot of people are griping because we chose “quantity over quality” too. Everyone wanted a can’t miss prospect as the centerpiece of the deal. What if the centerpiece can’t miss prospect turned out to be Alex Gordon. He was a can’t miss prospect. I’d rather have 4 guys to project to be good contributors at the MLB level. Maybe two of them bust, and maybe two of them become all stars. Who knows. . .

Written by Abh about 4 years ago.

I wonder how many of KC’s current top 30 prospects will make a single all-star game… 2? 3? 5? Granted it’s much harder to be chosen from KC than NYC/Chicago/LA, but even if half of the farm hands “make it” as big leaguers, a much lesser percentage will be quality, long-term MLB contributers. Hopefully KC has more than a couple Damon/Beltran/Greinkes, rather than mostly Affeldts/Gobbles/Dee Browns (remember when they were all supposed to be good?). Anyway, I remain hopeful, as there isn’t much choice.

As far as waiting, I think Moore was quite possibly getting a lot of heat from the ‘Greinke camp’ to get a trade done. He might have been deathly afraid of having an unmotivated and disinterested Zack show up for spring training (if he showed up at all) and devalue the market for him. Perhaps that is just speculation on my part, but Greinke did fire his representation for ‘not getting a trade done’ at the winter meetings, so I think there is some merit to my thought process.

If the brewers had a sure-fire all star pitcher they wouldn’t be trading him for greinke.

Written by Ted about 4 years ago.

“I think Moore was quite possibly getting a lot of heat from the ‘Greinke camp’ to get a trade done….Greinke did fire his representation for ‘not getting a trade done’ at the winter meetings”

Greinke said exactly this in an interview with the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. He thought his old agent was holding up a trade, so he brought in the new guy to get something done. Greinke also said that trade discussions with Milwaukee had been ongoing for more than a week, that something had held things up, and then that roadblock had been resolved.

Nick Scott said: “Well, when you have the best top 5 in all of baseball, that’s almost impossible to do. I’d venture to guess that there are maybe 20 prospects at most who are better than our #5 guy, and thats being generous.”

Nick I have gone to a number of the different farm system rating sites and for the life of me none of them have anything indicating the Royals have the five best prospects in baseball. Maybe we do have some promising young players but outside of Royals related blogs and websites I can’t find this so-called consensus that the Royals have the best farm system in all of baseball. I will agree the Royals prospects get a lot of ink and media hype but could that possibly be because, unlike a lot of other organizations, with the Royals there isn’t much to talk about at the major league level?

Written by Ted about 4 years ago.

Jeff E: I think Nick meant that KC’s top five prospects are better than anyone else’s top five; not that we have the five best prospects in baseball. And, he could be correct. John Sickels rates each of Moustakas, Hosmer and Myers as an A, and the next two guys, Montgomery and Duffy, at B+. I would be shocked if any other franchise is even close to that. Maybe Tampa.

It is entirely possible that when people like Keith Law start publishing their Top 100 lists, the Royals will have five or more of the Top 30.

There is consensus that the Royals have a very strong and deep farm system. Not certain what websites you are visiting, but almost everywhere I have been, the Royals are rated as having the top minor league system, maybe number two or three. Maybe you are looking at 2010 prospect ratings; most organizations are just now beginning to go to press with their 2011 rankings.

Written by kevin about 4 years ago.

between hosmer myers moustakus montgomery and lamb. Those are i believe who our top 5 prospects are in no real order it is entirely likely that all of them are in the top 30 of the top 100 prospects released by baseball america. With that said there are 25 prospects in on the other 29 teams that could unseat one of our top 5. I would of loved to get a mike trout like player that would of done that but i dont see that as a realistic option.

I think that is more what Nick was getting at because the fact is there is a very real chance that we have 8 of the top 100 prospects in our system and it is unanimous from every source ive read that the royals have the best system in the game.

Written by darkstorm97 about 4 years ago.

I like the trade. No, we didn’t get Montero, but we got a couple of guys who I think will be solid major leaguers by the time Hosmer and Myers settle in (2012?). I agree that Escobar will hit better. I think Seitz will get him hitting the other way (something I garantee the slug happy brew crew probably weren’t doing).

I like all of the scouting reports on Odorizzi. He’ll hopefully be up in the second wave of pitchers that floods in (Dwyer, Smith, ect).

Written by TobyV about 4 years ago.

Question came up on the radio today and I wanted to know if anyone could answer: Do the Royals operate on a year to year budget? Or do they put money back for future years if they have a lower payroll then what their top end number may be? Example: If we have the money to operate at a 80 mil payroll and for the next couple years we only have 60 mil payroll, do the Royals put back the 20 mil per year not being spent so that they can spend 90 to 100 mill in 4 – 5 years?

“Maybe we do have some promising young players but outside of Royals related blogs and websites I can’t find this so-called consensus that the Royals have the best farm system in all of baseball.”

Guys at Baseball America and at Baseball prospectus have suggested the royals have the top farm system. I haven’t heard a single person suggest any system be the #1 system which isn’t the Royals. This talent is real, and it’s spectacular.

Written by Jeff E. about 4 years ago.

Well I have been to both of those sites and can’t seem to find that info…guess I’m not looking in the right place. Do you have the url of those pages?

Jeff, the BA handbook will come out shortly, and John Manual and JJ cooper said on their podcast it’s the number one system, can’t remember which one. Kevin Goldstein and jason parks of baseball prospectus also said it was the #1 system on their podcast, and goldstein said via twitter it’s the best system he’s ever coverd and he’s been doing this for a long time.

Written by Jeff E. about 4 years ago.

Thanks Nick, no wonder I couldn’t find it, it hasn’t been officially released yet.

Written by Abh about 4 years ago.

TobyV, I think the answer to your question depends on the following:

1. What level of profits does the club actually make in any given year
2. Does the Board of Directors (i.e. mostly the Glasses) vote themselves an annual dividend accounting for some/all of said profits, or do they allow that money to remain within the business for future use.

I don’t think anyone outside the organization and the IRS necessarily knows the answer to either of those.