Since LFR was introduced in DS ppl have often and frequently gotten away with being afk or doing next to nothing. The down side of balancing the fights so anybody can do them is that so many are so bad they are doing about what others auto attacks do.

In the youtube age with such an incredible freedom of information and ease of communication, with guides left right and centre they are much easier than at release because you can just copy cheesy strategies, and the exact methods needed are more common knowledge.

Also the greater / easibility of gear, extra sockets, and hit/expertise higher on gearer and the fact it doesnt scale down = it is easier than at release.

I say that as somebody that got full silver a month after release, did gold a few weeks after, and recently got full gold on my second character in 2 days.

Except, they have nerfed the hell out of "heroic" dungeons to a point where you can complete them in 5-10 minutes. Thats a more reasonable comparison, since Challenge mode is a timed run with equalized gear, and neither heroic scenarios or dungeons are.

---------- Post added 2013-05-03 at 02:59 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Morrissey

They are nerfed in a sense;

In the youtube age with such an incredible freedom of information and ease of communication, with guides left right and centre they are much easier than at release because you can just copy cheesy strategies, and the exact methods needed are more common knowledge.

Also the greater / easibility of gear, extra sockets, and hit/expertise higher on gearer and the fact it doesnt scale down = it is easier than at release.

I say that as somebody that got full silver a month after release, did gold a few weeks after, and recently got full gold on my second character in 2 days.

Thats impressive! I can never find enough reliable, clear scheduled people to get a gold run going.

Except, they have nerfed the hell out of "heroic" dungeons to a point where you can complete them in 5-10 minutes. Thats a more reasonable comparison, since Challenge mode is a timed run with equalized gear, and neither heroic scenarios or dungeons are.

They didn't nerf them on live. They were released this way. Big difference.
No one did nerf anything on live because people complained about it.

I really have to agree. Before anyone says I'm crap or afk myself, I'm actually not, I'm always topping the meters by a very large margin simply because of my gear, which will be twice any random LFR'er, and I rarely afk unless to get something to drink. But what pisses me off the most in LFR, it's not the AFKers. I recognize the desire to AFK because LFR IS mindnumbing, especially for healers (doesn't mean I respect it though, but yeah). When I heal LFR I feel like uninstalling WoW because it's so incredibly boring. I also don't care about underperformers, because well, they either don't care so whatever I say won't be heard, or they're already doing their best in their own way. Besides, 99% of LFR is underperforming, some just are more than others. That's how it is, so even if you kick them you never know what you'll get back and it may be even worse.

Most people just want a drama-free LFR experience. If anyone like you would show up in "my" LFR I'd initiate the vote to kick YOU (and likely get it passed too), because you'd create an atmosphere of stress and pressure and honestly nobody needs, cares, or want to have that in LFR. Having an attitude like OP is incredibly disrupting and annoying and it's got nothing to do with defending AFKers. I'd rather have 10 AFKers than 1 dude who, as quoted says, takes it upon himself to "lead" in any form or way and make the whole experience even more annoying. There's NP if someone says "kick the afk", that's usually what happens and that's that, of course. Which is clearly not what was happening here.

So yes. I hope that clarifies something. Realizing this may sound boastful, but usually when I'm in LFR, I have some guildies with me and the boss will usually die no matter how many retards, underperformers and AFKers there are. Which is all I care about - getting LFR finished, having some fun with guildies on TS while we do it, and not having some random in LFR start calling out people and make the whole experience undesirable.

---------- Post added 2013-04-29 at 05:47 AM ----------

I think he meant that a normal raid doesn't have the crap that goes on in LFR, the amount of bullshit and flaming that can happen in raidchat. Disabling that may create the illusion of not being in LFR but being in a normal raid.

Before anyone says I'm crap or afk myself, I'm actually not, I'm always topping the meters by a very large margin simply because of my gear, which will be twice any random LFR'er,
So your running 600+ gear cause im a random lfr and im 506il and the above post sounds elitist aswell you may just be that guy

Is it really that worse in your realmgroup? We barely have AFK people, and when they are afk they get kicked fast

I'm starting to think I'm lucky as well. Our server cluster is pretty quick to votekick two types of people:
1. People that AFK excessively.
2. People that complain in LFR excessively.
It is possible to votekick people without throwing a tantrum in a public channel.

Since when being AFK, or pretending to be active by pressing 1 button, or just running around became so acceptable and proper thing to do in LFR?

Yesterday and today pretty much out of the 4 ToT runs on the 3 i had to argue with people defending AFKers, i mean clear AFKers with the tag right there, not even being there when you try to kick them and you get these responses from OTHER PEOPLE, NOT EVEN THEM:

"Its his right, he pays like you", "Its only LFR we can manage" "Fuck you elitist scum".

It baffles me how people can actually defend people like that.

On Durumu as example we had 2 DPS doing ~19k dps, clearly auto-attacking while they died from lingering under them a minute after.. and 2 healers with 0 healing, with AFK tags, after i started kicking them all (When you are a tank people listen), i had 2 people that started yelling that i am an elitist scum and its not my right to kick them..Of course they got kicked also instantly since after checking they were both half afk, one at ~40k dps with 500 ilvl and the other one with ~5k HPS.

And this happened again , many many times during the last 2 weeks that i resubbed, not only yesterday..At Lei Shen as example we had 4 AFK healers, 4 out of 6 simply put follow on someone else and disappeared, of course we wiped cause of lack of healing slowly and at the first discharge phase but dear god, even then when i started kicking them someone started whining that kicking people is bad, then you check "Hunter --20k dps" auto-attacker he is gone too.

I mean the actual AFKers dont even bother answering back..they just rush to pull something to get in combat when they realize they were discovered but i dont understand why others defend them.

Those 2 cases that i remember where obviously the same type of people defending their comrades but there are cases where active people defend afkers and they arent even from the same guild/server etc to think they are "Friends" or guildies.

This mentality is freaking amazing.

Never seen this attitude in Europe. Guess the american mentally is different.

You actually don't know what I whined about lmao. Instant or quicck catch ups shouldn't be in the game as far as I'm concerned. You should have to actually play your character to get end game.

And no, LFR is a difficulty, and isn't purely a tiered raiding feature. Tiered raiding existed before LFR.

Please, if you read this Blizzard listen to this guy. You could stand to lose another couple million subs and then we could shut him and people like him up and then finally move onto to something new instead of just trying to rehash tired old ideas of the past. Somehow I figure they have more sense than that but you never know.

The hammer comes down:

Originally Posted by Osmeric

Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

Please, if you read this Blizzard listen to this guy. You could stand to lose another couple million subs and then we could shut him and people like him up and then finally move onto to something new instead of just trying to rehash tired old ideas of the past. Somehow I figure they have more sense than that but you never know.

What exactly are you crying at me about? Because I, along with Blizzard think instant catch ups are bad for the game? (See Cataclysm)

Since when was it acceptable? Since the inception of LFR........................

Yeah, LFR was tuned so that even the baddiest of bads can get through it i.e you can do it with half your DPS team doing autoattacks.
Blizzard knows how small the IQ level is of the typical LFR enthusiast.

I can see why you would complain, afterall you're trying to get loot as fast as possible and these guys are slowing you down! You have a life to get to!

Trolling aside, it doesn't matter. LFR was designed around AFKers but you'll still get through it just fine. You reap what you sow.

Never seen this attitude in Europe. Guess the american mentally is different.

my thought exactly. Wonder how much of the LFR whining is geographically related. As I said in other thread with similar "lfr - attitude lololol" subject, I have been doing LFR every single week since available in MoP and it has been the most pleasant experience, and as someone also posted above with afk'ers and whining "heroes" being kicked quite efficiently and with minimal drama.