In honor of Kim Rhodes’ birthday today, we’re sharing a lovely chat we had with Kim over lunch at the recent Creation convention in Washington D.C., shortly after she had returned to Supernatural for the Robert Berens’ penned episode, “Alex Annie Alexis Anne.” Much like our previous chats with Kim, the conversation went from serious to silly and back again, and we left feeling inspired. Kim has a way of doing that, doesn’t she?

Before we asked Kim about her filming of the recent episode and were treated to some inside scoop on both her character and costars Jared and Jensen’s naughty antics, we asked about the fundraiser for her daughter’s school that Supernatural fans had helped with.

Lynn: So were you really blown away by the fan response for the fundraiser?

Kim: I sat down in the middle of the kitchen floor and sobbed. I mean, I was saying that I’m crying, but I don’t think people understood. Because, being the daughter of an alcoholic that I am, I’m the non-asker-for-help-er…

Lynn: Me too.

Kim: We don’t do that shit. And so there are only a few things in this world that I’m willing to overcome that for, and one of them is my daughter. And so I was like, I need help and I don’t have the money and all of the people I know are in the same state I am. And I had to say, okay, do you trust the fandom to say no if they need to say no? Yes. Do you trust the fandom to see you when you’re vulnerable? And I was like, well, this is the time to find out. And I just sat and cried. And the best part of it was my fundraising team’s response. Because we hadn’t met at all, the kindergarten kids drop off at a different place, so everyone was like who the fuck is this person? And we had a meeting a few days later and I said, it’s Supernatural fans. And they went from I have no idea what you’re talking about or oh, I’ve heard of that show, they hunt zombies, right? To now they want to change the name of the team to the Supernatural Frankliners.

Lynn: Now I’m crying. SPN Family, it’s for real.

Kim: And I’m talking we’ve got an indie movie director, we’ve got a guy who works for Dreamworks. So I said if we hit $10,000 we have to change the name. And we’re going to. And it was so nice to see their reaction to the generosity of the fandom. And I told them, I was like, oh please, these are people who built an entire fucking school in Haiti.

Kathy: Fans are gonna rise to the occasion.

Lynn: And they do it with such an outpouring of genuine love.

Kathy: In your panel, when you had the woman come up who made the Supernatural Cards Against Humanity, I was getting teary seeing her, because she was so happy to be recognized but so shy.

Kim and Richard onstage

Kim: That’s a line I’m getting better at walking at conventions. Because I don’t want to traumatize anybody, if someone is genuinely not wanting to, but I also find that people are waiting for an excuse to acknowledge each other. Because it’s kind of an entire crowd of mostly introverts, you have this opportunity to be extroverts. I’m becoming much more willing to say come here, I know who you are and I want to acknowledge you in front of everybody else because of something that you did.

Kathy: You were very protective and shielding of her.

Kim: And that’s the other thing, no matter how the person reacts, that’s okay. And that’s important to me, not just for the person in front of me, but for the people watching, because I want people to know that whatever their truth is, it’s okay. And the only way I can do that is by modeling it. It’s like, I would like you to be okay with what my truth is, so I need to show you that I’m okay with yours. I’m not trying to make you not nervous, I’m not gonna tell you that whatever you’re doing isn’t okay – not even with joking, like oh come on…

Lynn: I think that because you have put yourself out there and been very open and honest and shared things that probably weren’t that easy to share, makes other people feel safe. They’re like, she gets it. I think that’s how fandom responds.

Kim: Yes and no. Sometimes fandom can be like, oh an opening, let’s get them — If they don’t think the person is on their side. If someone approaches the fandom with an assumption or with arrogance, with an “All right, I’m here, love me!” The fandom is like a family, and when the favorite brother marries the Victoria’s Secret supermodel, when she shows up we’re all gonna be like, oh no sister, you still have to know how to fucking tell a joke, you don’t just get to sit there and be whatever this is.

Kathy and Lynn: (are nodding, because yeah, Kim gets fandom dynamics)

Kim: I think it’s also, back to their truth. I just did an episode of NCIS and the guy who played my partner has just started on Twitter. And he’s like, so what do I need to know? I said, decide what you’re comfortable with, because there are a few different Twitter personas you can go for. There’s angry troll person; there’s wisecracker, the ones who are funny; there’s PR person, the one who’s lemme tell ya what I’m doing; and there’s “here’s a tiny piece of my heart that I feel like puking on you right now”. I’m that one. And it wasn’t conscious – I wanted to be the wisecracking PR person, but that’s just not me. Even in 140 characters, I can’t stop myself from the puking. So I said, figure out which persona fits your truth. Because when you see someone come on and try to take advantage and try to play a game, even on Twitter, we can tell when you’re bullshitting.

Kathy and Lynn: Oh yes

Kim: I was a liar all my life, it was a coping mechanism, and once I started realizing how instinctual it was for me to lie, I started actively trying to tell the truth, because that’s the only way I could get used to it.

Lynn: And it’s the only way to get validated for the real you, otherwise you go through life feeling like a sham… it’s very hard to break out of that. A lot of people know that about you now, and that’s very validating for them, and maybe they take a risk to be a little real too.

Kim: I really make a conscious effort of not doing anything FOR the response. I do this because it’s what I want to do, and then what comes back, comes back. And sometimes it’s only ‘I lived through doing that, and now I know not to do it again!’ And it’s not just being on Twitter, but with this specific fandom, that is ready to say no no no, that shit you just pulled right there is some pretty heavy duty rape victim blaming.

Lynn: (nodding) Fandom is ready to call you on your shit

Kim: Yes! Ohmygod, the lessons in choosing to listen.

Lynn: Maybe you should be writing a book about this. How to be online and interact with other people without being a dick. I think that book is really needed right now. Fandom needs that book!

Kathy: Twitter does allow that kind of intimate exchange, a lot of times it feels one sided, but there are those moments when it’s an exchange and it’s real, it’s not just OMG they tweeted me back.

Kim: Yes, but just as likely to happen is that someone calls me out and whereas in real life I’d be like ‘wow, you’re clearly upset about this’, online my instinct sometimes is to be ‘fuck you fuck you you don’t know what you’re talking about fuck you fuck you!’

Lynn: It’s a stranger…

Kim: It is, and they’re taking something I said personally and ripping me apart for it, so I just wanna go ‘Woah there’. When they say, do you even know any autistic people? And I’m like well, aside from my fucking kid?? That’s what I want to do, but instead, I’m teaching myself that a) it doesn’t have to be immediate, I can take a breath before I respond, and that’s a great lesson, and b) I can say this person didn’t meet me, so clearly this isn’t about me, so they’re upset about something that’s them. The least I can do is take a deep breath and honor the fact and realize they’re clearly getting buttons pushed. And in the past there have been a couple of times that I’ve said ‘you know what, you’re right, your perspective does resonate with me’, and I’ve apologized publicly and said I would like to change my stance. And there are other times when I’m like ‘thank you for expressing that, I don’t agree, but are you expressing this because you want to have a dialogue or because you want me to agree with you?’

Kathy: Either way, that’s a more real exchange than PR or I’m gonna say something witty.

Lynn: I really think you need to write that book…

Kim: And for me, and I’m sure you can relate to this, I love words, I love language, I love writing, so for me Twitter is wonderful. It’s not even just about the people I’m connecting with all the time, it’s how I want to twist words to create meaning, so I think that’s why I’m there so often. My husband is a photographer and a dancer, so for him, it’s hard for him to just get on Twitter and say hey guys, my wife has a Supernatural episode coming up, check it out!

Kathy: For me, what’s terrible is the limitation. I look at 140 characters and I’m frozen.

Kim: it’s like a game though…

Lynn: Right! It’s like oooh, can I get the characters to zero?

Kim: (laughing) Exactly! Abbreviate this word, abbreviate that word, they’ll know what I mean, no hashtag no hashtag!

Lynn: Unless Robbie Thompson is online. (shifty eyes)

Our friend (and Kim’s friend) Michael joined us for lunch.

Kathy (to Michael): When we first met, you had just introduced Kim to social media. Look what you’ve done!

Kim: (laughing) Look what you did!

Michael (in his own defense): Actually Gabriel Tigerman got her started on Twitter, 3 years ago.

Kim: Yeah, it was Gabe. And now he’s like, fuck you, look at all your followers, what are you doing? Gabe is too busy making television and raising his adorable baby.

Michael: Did you see his commercial, the one with the talking hand?

Kim: Ohmygod, I remember when he shot that. He was like, it’s an odd commercial, I’m not entirely sure it will run…

Lynn: How is Katherine [Gabe’s wife, who had medical complications after the birth of their child]?

Kim: Some things are better, some things are not. She is an astounding person. Only people who know me will understand this, but I would put her on par with my mother in terms of ability, in terms of sheer strength. The shit she has gone through is astounding. And her ability to be human and experience it, just experiencing it requires strength. I’m so grateful to know her, and I joke about this with her and say well, I’m so sorry you went through all this, but otherwise I wouldn’t know you. She’s become one of my dearest friends, I love her so so much. She’s inspiring on all levels. But Gabe says that he’s been booking because he’ll go into an audition and be like ok, here’s the eleven pages, and now I have to go pick up my wife at the hospital and…oh, what? Can I stay and do it for the producers? Well, okay, I guess, but – oh what, that was really funny? Oh yes, I guess it was, it’s a comedy, okay gotta go now, bye. He booked a commercial where in the call back, he actually stopped what he was doing because one of the ad executives was like moving things around, so he stopped and went “Seriously?” He called her out – and he booked it. Because his priorities have completely shifted. And there’s no time to put into extraneous effort. It’s I’m here, I did my job, I did it. All these other actors are like trying to put all these spins on it, and he just walks in and nails it.

Lynn: He’s also a really good actor, but yes – your whole world view shifts.

Kim: I only knew Gabe from conventions, but because of all the crap that went south with my dad right before, I knew that when you’re in that deep shit, you can’t really respond. When people say oh let me know what you need, I often say, I could be standing naked in the middle of the street and not be able to tell you what I need. So I just went, ‘I’m coming over Thursday and I’ll be there at 2:00 to take the child out of your hands’. I had just been through something like that, so I wasn’t scared of it.

(Once again, the SPN Family and how we’ve all come together proves just as important and life-changing for the actors as it has been for so many of us.)

Kim: I remember blogging that we need to use the phrase “Wow, that sucks” more instead of trying to fix it. I was able to sit there and say I can’t comprehend what you’re going through, but that must suck.

Lynn: I teach my counseling graduate students to say those exact words. And at first they’re like, shouldn’t we be giving advice? But no, people just want to be heard and know that someone sees their pain.

Kim: And there’s an underlying judgment if you do that, like what you are is wrong. I said to Kat, all you can do right now is feel this. So if I come in and go oh, be happy, feel this way, I’m somehow telling you that feeling this is wrong.

Kim: At the same time, when we are watching a person we love be in pain, we need to offer something. So that’s also, I think I have a great deal of empathy and love for people who need to say cheer up, because I’m hurting so much on your behalf that I have to say that.

Lynn: Once you’ve validated how bad someone feels, they can maybe let go of that and feel better – until someone has heard how much you’re hurting, you can’t.

Kim: I definitely learned that dealing with my dad, I didn’t have any alternative to this sucking. And so people that I’d never even met showed up and were taking carpets out of my dad’s house and moving shrubbery around and fighting off rats in the back yard, literal and metaphorical. So that’s what changed my life the most out of my dad’s suicide, what being present to another person looks like, it’s just being present. Which is so hard.

Lunch arrived about that time, and talk turned to “Alex, Annie, Alexis, Anne.”

Kathy and Lynn: Were you surprised by the fan reaction? What a great episode!

Kim: Robert Berens, he’s astounding, and it’s his first year! And the episode was so deep and dimensional and layered – and for an episode that technically wasn’t even really about “the boys”, for it to have such resonance with where the brothers were, and it reflected their emotional state – I just think he did such a good job writing it.

Robert Berens (far R) w Robbie, Jenny and Eric

Lynn: He is pretty awesome. You’ve met him, right?

K: Yes! He came up to the set, and I got to be there when Bob Singer came up to him and complimented him on his work, and on his work as a writer of this episode. It was so lovely just to watch these two brains who are at different places on the spectrum in terms of status have such mutual respect and love. It was lovely. But yeah, Robert Berens.

Lynn: I’m glad he got to write for you.

Kim: Oh yeah, me too.

Lynn: And I loved Katherine Ramdeen. Does she go by Katherine?

Kim: She was lovely. And yeah, she goes by Katherine – or, she said, anything except Kathy.

Lynn: (smirks at Kathy)

Kathy: (kicks Lynn under the table)

(Yes, this is our customary interview behavior. Anyone who has read ‘Fangasm’ probably knows that already).

Kim: She was a find. She’s really, really incredible. And really focused and motivated. I’m hoping they bring her back, I know that she got really great response, and the writers loved her, Robert loved her. The director, Stefan, actually is the person who brought her in.

Kathy: Did he work with her before?

Kim: He worked with her on “Being Human” in a really tiny small part and he thought oh, I’d really like her for this, and she came in and was just great.

Lynn: She’s a very good actor. Supernatural is one of those shows where so many people who are on it are such talented actors, and occasionally a guest actor might be pretty good, but they’re not Supernatural good. So stacking up to you and the boys? But she did a great job.

Kim: She did. And Robert and I talked about, well, do you think it would make Jody back off of being a hunter if now she’s got a younger person dependent on her? Or it might make her go harder, to make the world better, for Alex. Annie. Alex Annie Alexis Ann…

Kathy and Lynn: (are laughing)

Kim: And she’s the kind of kid where at this point, if Jody tries to smother her and make her into a normal child, she’d just leave. Jody would get up in the morning and she’d be gone. The girl hasn’t had a normal childhood since she was eight years old.

Kathy: And sixteen is not six.

Kim: Yeah, so I think that it’s a good bet that if they want to bring them back as a duo, a kickass duo…

Lynn: I wrote in my Fangasm blog review that this was an episode that passed the Bechdel test with freaking flying colors. I was live tweeting and screaming WE PASSED WE PASSED!

Kim: YES! We passed! We talked about that in wardrobe. They brought that up and said this is the first time we’ve passed the Bechdel test.

Lynn: I don’t think it’s really the first time…

Kim: In a while…

Lynn: Yeah, in a while. And we’ve never passed like that, with flying colors! I mean, it was really about the women, and they were talking about all kinds of things that had nothing to do with a man. It was awesome.

Kim: (laughing) Yeah. So go Robert, keep it going.

Lynn: The episode got a very positive reaction, but the next one (Bloodlines), not so much.

Kim: I think a lot of people thought, like it was competition, but then I thought about it and was like, wait, it’s like a sibling. I had to back off and think, where did it come from? It came from the people I know and love and above all trust, so they know what they’re doing. And I got a little surprised that the reaction was “well, it isn’t what I’m used to”. But I don’t want it to be what I’m used to, because Supernatural is what I’m used to. I don’t want it to be Supernatural, I want it to augment and supplement and become its own thing. And they laid a beautiful groundwork for that, so I was on the fence, but now I hope they do something with that. They opened up amazing arenas that we don’t have in Supernatural.

Lynn: I was seeing all this negative stuff and having some negative reactions myself, but also hearing Andrew Dabb saying I don’t want it to be like Supernatural, I don’t want to cannibalize Supernatural, and I could relate to that too. I think it was just very hard having it be an episode of Supernatural that was not an episode of Supernatural.

Kim: I can see that. And especially – and this sounds arrogant but I’m gonna say it as a Supernatural fan, not as Kim Rhodes – especially coming after “Alex, Annie, Alexis, Ann”, an episode that was like oh, that’s how fans would expect a backdoor pilot to be. It reminded us of a character we’d forgotten about who had earned the right to be off on their own and would provide a launching place, and I think that’s what a lot of people expected. And in my experience, expectations are the downfall of my reality.

Us: So true

Kim: So we all kind of had expectations going into it and then when it wasn’t what we expected, we went oh eww it’s bad. I mean, how much of this fandom would like to see a spinoff that’s all about Crowley and Castiel?

Us: (emphatically) EVERYONE.

Kathy: And frankly, Jody and Alex…

Lynn: Or Charlie and Dorothy…or Gabriel and Lucifer…or…

Kim: Right??

Lynn: It was a hard sell with all new characters instead of all these familiar characters that people are dying to have on more.

At this point, a few fans came up to say hi to Kim and take some photos, and then apologized when they realized she was doing an interview.

Fans: We love you! We love your feminist viewpoint. And are you the Fangasm girls? Will you sign my book?

Kim, Lynn and Kathy: (are all beaming)

Kathy: So talk a bit about the filming of the episode, how was it?

Kim: This is how nice it was. Our second AD, Kevin – not Kevin Parks, our other Kevin – welcomed me by saying “Hey, welcome home.”

Lynn: Awwwwww. Did you cry? I so would have.

Kathy: It’s true, she totally would have.

Kim: (smiling) Nooo. But it just feels really nice to be there, and it feels like I’ve earned my seat, so to speak.

Lynn: You definitely have.

Kim: But also, they’ve been shooting this for a long time, so when I come in and I’m like woohoo, it’s the prom and it’s my birthday party and I’m the queen all rolled into one, and they’re like oh yeah, we forgot, this is exciting – even when, like it was raining so hard that you could SEE it in one of the scenes, and when it’s raining enough for you to see it on film, it is POURING. By 2:00 in the morning, we had three inches of deep sticky mud we were going through. Rosie, our camera guy, was carrying the Steadicam backwards through this mud. And even the stunts I had, and the running, that full scale like full out rock this shit out –

Lynn: (laughing) Such a glamorous job…

Kim: (cracking up) At one point I was like ‘Look at me, livin’ the dream!’ as I was laying in the mud one more time, pulling it out of my hair so we could set up again…but it’s because it’s still so unusual for me, that I had nothing but fun. Like if I were there in mud and rain until 2:00 in the morning every day, I’m sure I’d be a little less enthusiastic…

More of that glamorous job

Kathy: That might get old.

Kim: It felt like the work is so challenging, that I really get to pull everything up. And the material this time was so challenging as well.

Lynn: A lot to sink your teeth into this time.

Kim: Yeah, they really took Jody – like, getting to wind up what happened in the past, and revisit that and then build on that and branch into the future. And it’s the first time you’ve seen her challenge Sam and Dean EVER. Like, you don’t see anybody challenge them.

Kathy: No way.

Lynn: I wouldn’t.

Kim: It was like, look you motherfuckers, I’m comin’ with you!

Lynn: Totally badass. I thought the quiet scenes with Alex were really powerful too, where you can really see that Jody is drawn to her and some of it is this unconscious stuff that she’s starting to process, but she’s struggling with it, and there are these close-ups of Jody’s face… I don’t know how actors do this, but you can actually SEE all that, you can tell what she’s thinking without her saying a word.

Kim: That’s the direction. That is our job, but it’s also the director’s job to tell the story visually, so it’s the moments that he picks to show you that. Because we were all concerned about how their relationship progressed very quickly, from little snot-nosed brat who didn’t say thank you to I’m willing to die for this girl. So we were concerned that it wouldn’t be believable. So I of course did what I’m usually prone to doing, which is playing the end too fast. And Stefan would pull me back and say, you can’t have that level of affection for her yet, she hasn’t earned it, pull it back and then let it show in these moments. So that’s really a collaborative effort. How they shoot it, what the director is choosing, the relationship between the actors, what I’m pulling up from my life. That’s really a testament to how Supernatural itself works, that everybody is in the final product – the editing was incredible, he did such a good job on that. The minute little things that would seem like they’re not progressing the story, but because they give it such a solid emotional link, you can then sail into what’s happening next. I thought it was all done really really well.

Lynn: I’m always impressed with the fact that all of the Supernatural actors always give credit to the whole team, emphasize that Supernatural is a collaboration. I thought it was one of the best episodes ever for that kind of thing – not the nail biting OMG action, but for that collaboration, so you absolutely buy everything that’s happening. Even though in a 42 minute episode you should have been more incredulous, like they went from here to there? I think that’s amazing.

Kim: Stefan was brilliant, I hope they have him back. I would follow him anywhere. I told him, anything you need me to do, I’ll do it. And really, he didn’t take mediocrity, and I love that in a director as well. So like, he wouldn’t take a performance that wasn’t what I was capable of.

Kathy: So he challenged you. And everyone else too?

Kim: Yeah, oh yeah. He was taking his time, and that was also really nice to have somebody say “Ahhhh I didn’t quite believe you here.” If you think about the scene between the two mothers, the vampire mom and Jody….

Lynn: That’s the other scene that was so emotional.

Kim: And Ashley Crow is an astounding actor, and we both came at it wanting to find the humanity in the scene. It could’ve gone very “grr it takes one to know one, and you’re a bitch”, but we both just wanted to underplay the emotion and not show our cards. Like these are two women who know emotion can be used against you. And it was interesting, the way I saw it when I watched it was almost like when the Mama vampire said “you bitch” and started whaling on Jody, it was almost like Jody won! I win, because you lost it. And I’m gonna die, but I win.

Lynn: It’s true. I love Supernatural, but sometimes it’s not always known for its subtlety, and anvils falling on your head can be painful, but that episode was subtle. And it was so well done that my emotions were all over the place. I love Jody, but I felt for the Mama vampire too –

Kim: (excitedly) Yes! Yes! And that then earns, because of the way the end was written, it was a tragedy. Again, reflecting back on Sam and Dean, this is the reality of their lives. Even when they win, it sucks. So this tableau of women were meant to reflect where they were at as brothers – which is, you’re in so deep, there’s no way for this to be okay. And that final moment, when Jody looked at Alex and was like, “don’t watch”, it’s like “I don’t want to have to do this, I really don’t want you to have to see this, but this is what has to happen.”

Lynn: Even in that line, there was a parallel to Sam and Dean – in Dean’s brutal kill of the vampire with “look at me, bitch!”

Kim: YES

Lynn: I love the way those parallels were set up – my review was like 20 pages long, I swear.

Kim: And how much fun is it that we get to do that, we get to pick it apart and really think? I love it because I don’t have to think all the time, I love being spooked, that’s part of my entertainment, sometimes. I like having emotions, but I also like being able to relax, so I wouldn’t want it always, but sometimes it’s so nice to watch and be like, ohmygod that had layers I wasn’t even aware of.

Lynn: (grinning rather sentimentally) That’s our Show. I’m just so glad that Bob got to write for you. So, did you have any fun with the boys? Was it good seeing them?

Kim: Oh, always. And we did have fun, because – it was the first time that the three of us – usually I’m with Jared the most, and so this was the first time that we had some really solid scenes with the three of us.

Kim and the boys

Kim: And I can actually have a fairly coherent conversation with Jensen now…

Lynn: Me too. Um, more or less.

Kathy: (shaking her head) Yeah right.

Kim: I’ve graduated to that point. I did at one point though…. he like nodded and winked at me, because I nailed a take so he nodded and winked at me, and they were like okay, let’s go again — and I just stood there. And then I was like [to Jensen], “you need to be a little more judicious because I’m still working over here”.

Lynn and Kathy: (are nodding in empathy)

Kim: I was like, I can have a conversation with you, but not if you’re like — no, you can’t be doing that!

Lynn: I’m glad I’m not the only one.

Kim: No. And I love that he’s so unassuming, you’d think if anything, anyone as beautiful as those two guys are, would be bags of dicks.

Lynn: They should be, I don’t know what happened.

Kim: I know, right? And yet, they’re so unassuming and playful about it, it’s really lovely. So it was nice to see them. And then by the time we got out in the woods and we were shooting in the rain, the fact that I actually had to say the sentence “I’m coming” three times in a row…That did not go unnoticed.

Lynn: You did? How could I not notice that?

Kim: I don’t know, because they sure did. It was hilarious. I was like, “I’m coming” and they’re like, “Really, Jody?”

Lynn and Kathy: (are giggling)

Kim: When I saw that in the script, I knew we were going to be having a challenge on this particular day.

Lynn: And you had to stay all calm…

Kim: Though I did at one point turn around and say “It’s my first one, just give me a minute!”

Kathy: Good comeback.

Kim: I think there were three times I said it in that short period of time.

Lynn: Perhaps that was not a gift from Robert Berens, because he should know them well enough to anticipate that kind of reaction. Perhaps it was a bit of a ribbing.

Kim: Yep, like “silver platter, here you go!” So yeah, it was good, and I’m not dead, so fingers crossed. I always hope they’ll see me again, and I’m always surprised when they see me again.

Kathy: You’re one of the fan favorite characters. I mean Jody is. Well, you are too actually.

Kim: Well, we don’t have a lot of women, do we? This episode was a gift, it was such an incredible gift. I will say this – I’m very grateful. You asked if I was surprised at the fandom reaction, and I was. I thought there was going to be a lot of backlash that it was not a J2 episode.

Lynn: Not enough Sam and Dean?

Kim: Yes, and I was prepared for that. And I think I apologized preemptively, I was like, I’m sorry guys, there’s not a lot – but it’s not like I cut them from the episode! I thought it would be a real test of Jody as a character and what the response to her really is. Because if I were a fan and I watched my boys get taken away in favor of a middle aged woman, I’d be like um, there are better things for me to be doing with my time right now.

Lynn: Believe me, I’m usually one of the people yelling that, but there was not a millisecond during that episode that I thought that – it was such a fabulous story, and the whole thing read like a mirror of Sam and Dean, so even when they weren’t there, you were learning about Sam and Dean.

Kathy: And the mirroring in this episode worked really well.

Kim: So a massive massive thank you to the fandom for being so accepting of that.

At that point, it was time for Kim to head over to sign some autographs, so we said our goodbyes – but not before we gave Kim her very own copy of “Fangasm: Supernatural Fangirls”. We’re hoping it inspires her to write her own book. (Hint hint, Kim…)

For more things to do over Hellatus, click the links at the top of the page to read our books on Supernatural and its amazing cast, crew and fans.

I love Kim and I’m so happy they haven’t killed her character off. Every time she’s on, I dread that this might be the time they do it. Please PTB never kill off Jody Mills. I’m going to Dallas Con this year and I’m so happy Kim is going to be there. I can’t wait.

I had to laugh when Lynn said “Supernatural is one of those shows where so many people who are on it are such talented actors, and occasionally a guest actor might be pretty good, but they’re not Supernatural good.” We have a high bar set don’t we. We’re so used to getting the “A” team all the time that when we get a “B,C, or god forbid, D team” actor/actress its really noticeable.

I think that’s what my problem was with Bloodlines (well among other things). The acting just wasn’t up to what I perceive to be Supernaturals standards and it kept taking me out of the story. I think myself and many others thought the spin off would just be more of the same quality we get from Supernatural and instead of it being at Supernaturals standard, it was only at the CW’s. We were expecting nitty and gritting and instead we got pretty and fluffy. I understand that they were trying for something different, but I think it was TOO different and because we couldn’t connect to it, it was doomed to fail.

Thank you for this wonderful interview. I have so much love for Jody, and even more for Kim. I simply can’t express how much of an inspiration she is.
I think that was one reason fans were so responsive to the fundraiser (apart from the fact that that’s kinda just what we do!) We can tell Kim over and over how much we love her, but this was somethng solid and real we could give back, to say thank you for everything she gives us.

Pretty damn gorgeous! I think you’re right, that was an opportunity to really show the fandom’s love and respect and appreciation. I love the reciprocity of this Show and its fandom, and this was a beautiful example.

Ummm I feel like I might get jumped on. I liked the show and I like Sheriff Mills but I didnt like that there wasnt more of Sam and Dean. That is the reason I watch it and I didnt like it as much as you guys did. It was a alright episode but not my favorite by far so I dont agree necessarily with you and I wouldnt watch a show with just them. Again I love Kim. I gave to her charity and Katherine was good too but it wasnt my favorite. I do hope she comes back but to me it was alittle better then middle but not great. I did like it and thought it was really good. Everyone did a good job. I m reading over this and its not sounding like I want cause I did really like the show but there are several of this season I liked better. That sounds better. Not to put Kim or anyone else down at all cause they did great. Also I would have had a hard time acting with Jared and Jensen too

Fan Phenomena: Supernatural on Amazon

Fangasm on Amazon

Fandom at the Crossroads on Amazon

Fan Culture: Theory/Practice on Amazon

Our Story

This is the story of two college professors who fell hard for a show called Supernatural. Obsession, devotion, fascination, call it what you will. We decided to figure out what was going on with us by writing a book on fandom from the fans' perspective. As academics do, we hit the libraries and internet, accumulating stacks of articles and hundreds of pages of research. We typed and revised and theorized, quoted and footnoted, and ended up with an academic text crammed full of the current scholarship on fandom.

This is not that book.

Somewhere along the line, the research took a back seat to the road trip as we traveled across the US and Canada interviewing the show’s fans, as well as the actors and directors, writers, journalists, bloggers, convention organizers, significant others and insignificant hangers-on. Fangasm! is the story of that year-long roadtrip -- the surprises we never saw coming, the secrets uncovered, the behind-the-scenes insights, the heartwarming and heartbreaking fan confessions. It’s also the story of our shared obsession and the friendship that sustains us through 4 am line-ups, overtaxed credit cards, canceled flights and airport camp-outs, and of course the occasional accusations of insanity.

Order Fangasm now from Amazon by clicking the link at the top of this page.

Media Coverage

Check out the February 2016 issue of Nylon Magazine - we're quoted in an article about fandom!

What Else We’re Writing

We've written several articles for Supernatural Magazine, including features on the fan convention experience, and behind the scenes on the set. We have also written the academic version of this story, Fandom at the Crossroads: Celebration, Shame and Fan/Producer Relationships , and edited a collection on fan culture, Fan Culture: Theory/Practice.
You can also order our book Fan Phenomena: Supernatural, with chapters by cast, crew and fans of Supernatural. Check out what Misha Collins and Richard Speight, Jr. have to say in their insightful (and amusing) chapters. Click the links at the top of the page to order.

And coming in May 2017, look for an exciting new book - Family Don't End With Blood: Cast and Fans on How Supernatural Changed Lives with powerful chapters by ten Supernatural actors including Jared Padalecki!

Kathy is also the Principal Editor and Lynn on the Editorial Board of The Journal Of Fandom Studies, published by Intellect. The most recent issue is available now.