Your hands aren't offset, why would you want the sticks to be? (As long as they aren't too close together)

The upper position is the more natural one for your thumb to fall on, so it makes sense to put the left analog stick up there since that's what your left thumb uses for almost every game. Putting the right analog stick in the upper position makes sense for games where your right thumb is controlling the camera; putting the buttons up there makes sense for games where your right thumb is using buttons.

is this a big deal?,i am sure we would of liked our original PSN games on the PS4,but i don't think i was expecting it...and i think the Wii U has the same thing with the Wii Virtual Console games

Psst, we already discussed this on the previous page.

The article merely states, in a roundabout way, that the PS4 isn't backwards compatible. It's not going to wipe your PSN history. Also, your PSN account will most likely be used for reference when they get their streaming backwards compatibility implemented.

Your hands aren't offset, why would you want the sticks to be? (As long as they aren't too close together)

The upper position is the more natural one for your thumb to fall on, so it makes sense to put the left analog stick up there since that's what your left thumb uses for almost every game. Putting the right analog stick in the upper position makes sense for games where your right thumb is controlling the camera; putting the buttons up there makes sense for games where your right thumb is using buttons.

Agreed. I personally don't mind the PS3 controller, but the 360 controller is far more comfortable and ergonomic.

We didn't get to see the hardware during Sony's press event, which led to speculation of important factors like whether or not the PlayStation 4 will have a disc drive. Sony has confirmed that the console will accept discs.

fwiw (I haven't been a console gamer in many years, and stayed out of the PS3/XBox360 generation altogether), back in 2011, I tried using a PS-style controller for a while and then the XBox360 controller for Windows with various PC/multi-platform titles.

I generally just found the XBox360 controller more precise and a bit more comfortable for long gaming sessions. I used my PS2 for gaming for many years and often found the thumbsticks just not precise enough for my tastes.

That said, the PS style controller design is Sony's signature and obviously many people with more adept fingers/hands than me love the design. I can't realistically expect them to ever change that to anything remotely similar to the XBox360's.

That begs a neophyte question -- is there some adapter that lets you use an XBox360 controller on a PS3?

I haven't really decided if all this fixation on Facebook-ish sharing, and integrating with smartphone apps and integrating with Vita and this and that is great or trying to do too many things. I'm reminded of various Sony Clie Palm PDAs that tried to do 27 different things and looked very impressive on a marketing document, but didn't necessary appeal to the masses. Sony's good at that sort of fumbling. Or, this could be genius. It could be genius enough to drag a former console-junkie like me back into them... Just not sure yet.

As to whether something like PS4 could drag me back into consoles, I'd like to see the actual hardware and some UI screens first. And of course would like to see if/when the XBox720 materializes.

I like that the PS4 marketing seems to aimed directly at gamers (and developers), and that they're not trying to go after everyone...yet. It will be interesting to see if that strategy pays off, especially if MS goes more mainstream casual with its marketing.

I agree on the current gen controllers. While I don't mind the PS3 controller, the 360 feels more comfortable. I have long fingers, and they start to feel cramped on the PS3 controller after awhile, especially my right thumb working the face buttons. But I have freaky long thumbs, so I'm probably not a good benchmark.

I like that the PS4 marketing seems to aimed directly at gamers (and developers), and that they're not trying to go after everyone...yet. It will be interesting to see if that strategy pays off, especially if MS goes more mainstream casual with its marketing.

Heh, I made a similar observation a while back. It seems Sony has gone through this generation from trying to be the center of your living room and not focusing on games, to focusing on games and not really caring about your living room. Microsoft on the other hand started out focusing on games, but eventually forgot and put all their efforts into the living room.

Actually, now that I think about it, the two companies have swapped places in more ways than that. Microsoft started the generation as the underdog, but soon grew into the mightiest of the two. Now Sony is the underdog, though the future is harder to predict. Sony started out the generation by losing plenty of their most valuable exclusives, such as Grand Theft Auto. Microsoft is ending this generation by having lost plenty of their most valuable exclusives... or the companies behind them at least. The 360 doesn't really have a lot of exclusives anyway at this point.

I think the social integration stuff is important for the kids, so I can see why it keeps getting added to everything, but personally, I don't want the rest of the world knowing how much time I spend gaming. I imagine this will hold true for the kids as they get older, too. It seems like this kind of integration is going to be flash in the pan. We're in the flash now, though.

I think the social integration stuff is important for the kids, so I can see why it keeps getting added to everything, but personally, I don't want the rest of the world knowing how much time I spend gaming. I imagine this will hold true for the kids as they get older, too. It seems like this kind of integration is going to be flash in the pan. We're in the flash now, though.

Good point. I'm counting on there being an option to disable the public advertising of what I'm doing and playing, and I don't have to link to any social outlets. But the option is there to have all of that integrated if you wanted. Would you like to link to your FB, Twitter or Youtube accounts? No. And then it would just move onto the next part of the new user setup.

I think the social integration stuff is important for the kids, so I can see why it keeps getting added to everything, but personally, I don't want the rest of the world knowing how much time I spend gaming. I imagine this will hold true for the kids as they get older, too. It seems like this kind of integration is going to be flash in the pan. We're in the flash now, though.

Good point. I'm counting on there being an option to disable the public advertising of what I'm doing and playing, and I don't have to link to any social outlets. But the option is there to have all of that integrated if you wanted. Would you like to link to your FB, Twitter or Youtube accounts? No. And then it would just move onto the next part of the new user setup.

Frankly, social integration is likely going to be part of Microsoft's plan as well. If you think stuff like Facebook and Twitter, etc. are "flash in the pan" welcome to 2 years ago. The various channels have barely scratched the surface of what can be done in terms of targeted marketing, and believe me, THAT is what is driving this more than anything else.

I think the social integration stuff is important for the kids, so I can see why it keeps getting added to everything, but personally, I don't want the rest of the world knowing how much time I spend gaming. I imagine this will hold true for the kids as they get older, too. It seems like this kind of integration is going to be flash in the pan. We're in the flash now, though.

Good point. I'm counting on there being an option to disable the public advertising of what I'm doing and playing, and I don't have to link to any social outlets. But the option is there to have all of that integrated if you wanted. Would you like to link to your FB, Twitter or Youtube accounts? No. And then it would just move onto the next part of the new user setup.

Frankly, social integration is likely going to be part of Microsoft's plan as well. If you think stuff like Facebook and Twitter, etc. are "flash in the pan" welcome to 2 years ago. The various channels have barely scratched the surface of what can be done in terms of targeted marketing, and believe me, THAT is what is driving this more than anything else.

Oh, no question, but that targeted marketing is only going to work so long as the people are using it.

When I say "flash in the pan", BTW, I'm aware that it's a big, all-encompassing flash, but in a decade's time, we will wonder why the hell we were all so into Facebook.

Hell, I wonder that now, and I still use it several times a day.

I sure as hell don't want friends and family to see my gaming stats, though, and I still think that will be the trend as we go forward. Right now it's still fun for people to say, "Hey, I need crops in Farmville" (okay not that right now, per se, but I'm just using that outdated game as an example), but more and more people are realizing that they're not receiving crops so much as virtual funny looks along with someone thinking, "Geez, they play that damn game a lot."

They're just trying to avoid the question at this point without building up expectations too much. I suspect this is a hand they don't want to show to Microsoft yet, so they probably think that it's better to err on the side of expensive and give customers a pleasant surprise when the price is finally revealed, than err on the side of cheap and end up disappointing customers in the end. The prices we've heard before are probably pretty close to the mark, especially since the PS4 is supposed to be cheaper to produce than the PS3 was.

The most I'll pay for a next gen is 399. - 450. & 450 would be pushing it

yeah, I'm arbitrarily making $399 my limit unless there are at least 4 exclusives that I want out just because there is no sense in having it collect dust and I already have a dedicated blu ray player. inFAMouS Second Son is one and Knack has the potential to be the second one.

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The most I'll pay for a next gen is 399. - 450. & 450 would be pushing it

yeah, I'm arbitrarily making $399 my limit unless there are at least 4 exclusives that I want out just because there is no sense in having it collect dust and I already have a dedicated blu ray player. inFAMouS Second Son is one and Knack has the potential to be the second one.

I'd say there's about zero chance it's less than $400. I'm just hoping it's not more than $500, but I expect it will be.

We had confirmations last night and today over on Kotaku that the PS4 will play used games and will not require an always-on Internet connection (as well as leaving it up to the game companies as to whether any particular game will need initial Internet activation to play). Those issues, plus being able to play streamed PS1, PS2 and PS3 games makes me think that unless Microsoft does close to the same thing, my next console will be a PS4.

Another problem for these consoles, if they continue to go up into the 400- 500 range, and with powerful desktops cheaper than ever, they have more than just each other to compete against. Why pay 500 for these consoles, when you can pay a little more for a desktop that blows their doors off?

Again I want, I need to have these console makers MAKE me buy their stuff, I'm hoping they give me that O Boy I gotta have that moment. Yesterday wasnt it.

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Maybe I am so old now that I am no longer in Sony's target demographic, but after yesterday's press reveal, I have no motivation to get a PS4. Hell, what little info they did reveal made it LESS appealing to me:

1. Tepid, at best, statement about backward compatibility (not a deal breaker but would have been nice)2. Current PSN purchases and saved games will not be able to carry over to the PS43. No pricing info, no SKU info, not even a mock up model for display4. This is the big one for me. This whole social network integration is a MASSIVE turnoff for me. The last thing I want is to broadcast my gaming habits all over the online world, spamming Facebook and Twitter with posts every time I do something. And this notion of being able to look in on other gamers live while they play games is both unsettling and creepy. I'm assuming Sony will give the user full control over just how much social interaction you can allow, but it's a distracting headache when all I want to do is play games.

I get that it's an evolving landscape when it comes to gaming. The alleged real time demos that were shown were impressive for the most part, but other than that, I didn't see anything that would make me want to get one. There's so much emphasis on what I think is a lot of useless chrome when all I want to see is compelling hardware that is simple and easy to use and games, exclusives most importantly, that make you want to play them.

Maybe Microsoft will be different, but I fully expect an equally uninspiring reveal of the next Xbox.

Maybe I am so old now that I am no longer in Sony's target demographic, but after yesterday's press reveal, I have no motivation to get a PS4. Hell, what little info they did reveal made it LESS appealing to me:

1. Tepid, at best, statement about backward compatibility (not a deal breaker but would have been nice)2. Current PSN purchases and saved games will not be able to carry over to the PS43. No pricing info, no SKU info, not even a mock up model for display4. This is the big one for me. This whole social network integration is a MASSIVE turnoff for me. The last thing I want is to broadcast my gaming habits all over the online world, spamming Facebook and Twitter with posts every time I do something.

Oh well...*sigh*

1.Yes, we all knew that was coming. It didn't need to be confirmed. 2. This is the same as point number one. No backwards compatibility is no backwards compatibility. It doesn't matter whether it's on a bluray or digital. 3. Does it really matter what it looks like? It's going to be a box. It's going to be black. 4... Don't put in your Facebook details?

I think it's funny that people think that all social network connectivity means is spamming your twitter and facebook accounts with granular status posts.

It sounds more like they are trying to beef up THEIR social network with more practical functionality instead of it being some crap like Home or just a friends list, combined with opt-in ties to external social networks like FB and Twitter, with those ties being more along the lines of scanning those contact lists for PS4 owners and adding them to your PS4 friends list.

Actual status updates and shares will likely only happen when you hit that share button, or manually post video of your gaming sessions (which IMO is MUCH better than "I got this trophy in this game"). Seems like something easy to opt out of.

Some further details on the games - inFamous : Second Son - "After rescuing occupants from a fiery bus wreck, he discovers that he suddenly has the ability to direct, manipulate and even transform into… Smoke...Setting the scene: It’s been seven years since the Cole McGrath episodes and the world has clearly changed. Anyone showing signs of being a so-called “bio-terrorist” is immediately handed over to the Department of Unified Protection (DUP) — a government agency created to ensure there is never a repeat of the catastrophic events of Empire City and New Marais. So Delsin, who has never been particularly respectful of authority, finds himself caught in the DUP dragnet – And decides he’s not going to go quietly."

Knack - "The result is Knack, a creature with mysterious powers – for one, he can incorporate more relics into his body as he finds them, which allows him to transform from a three-foot tall creature into a gigantic wrecking machine. During the game Knack also discovers that he has a skill (in other words, a knack!) that allows him to incorporate ice, metal and other substances into his body, giving him new abilities from level to level. The result is gameplay which is a little bit like Crash Bandicoot, and a little bit like Katamari Damacy, in that the Knack can get quite large indeed."

There are also some screenshots of Diablo 3's console interface, although these are PS3 shots.

« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 11:44:58 PM by EddieA »

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Frankly, social integration is likely going to be part of Microsoft's plan as well. If you think stuff like Facebook and Twitter, etc. are "flash in the pan" welcome to 2 years ago. The various channels have barely scratched the surface of what can be done in terms of targeted marketing, and believe me, THAT is what is driving this more than anything else.

Well, as far as social integration goes, it can all go to hell. I find it pointless, annoying, and a complete waste of time. I don't give a damn what anyone is doing in 140 characters or less, or what they ate for breakfast, or pretty much anything.

Scary random tidbit - I have Facebook trying to get me to sign up BY NAME (and the names of some people I know) because somebody somewhere put in my e-mail address (or Facebook yanked it from one of them or something). Yeah, that's not creepy at all.

Quote from: tcweidner on February 21, 2013, 09:52:55 PM

Another problem for these consoles, if they continue to go up into the 400- 500 range, and with powerful desktops cheaper than ever, they have more than just each other to compete against. Why pay 500 for these consoles, when you can pay a little more for a desktop that blows their doors off?

Exactly! And PC games are going to get a huge step forward in how they look as well, simply because they won't just be 'higher resolution textures and AA and that's about it' when it comes to being a 'port' of the consoles. It can properly be the lead console and just ported over to the consoles (because the PS4 and no doubt the 720) will just 'be' PCs in their guts.

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Well, as far as social integration goes, it can all go to hell. I find it pointless, annoying, and a complete waste of time. I don't give a damn what anyone is doing in 140 characters or less, or what they ate for breakfast, or pretty much anything.

Here's the thing: You're getting old. I should know. I'm getting old too.

I appreciate Facebook and Twitter, and use them with some regularity. They're an excellent way of keeping in touch with people without all that social commitment involved in actually meeting them. Sure, you'll meet up with your close friends, but what about acquaintances? How about relatives? Sometimes it can take years between each time you meet these people. Social websites allow you to maintain some familiarity even with those you don't consider among your inner circle, enriching your life by learning more about others.

What I just wrote in the paragraph above is what I thought Facebook, Twitter, and other social media was all about. Turns out I'm getting old. People merely 10 years my junior, even if they're adults, use social media in ways that I simply can't comprehend. It's alien to me, yet to them it's a fundamental part of their daily lives. Take it away and they wouldn't function socially. Let's face it: We'll never be able to understand this. We're the wrong generation, the old guys who shake their heads in dismay when we hear young girls playing Elvis on their fancy gramophones, lamenting the way this modern rock and roll is ruining real music.

So sure, the Facebook and Twitter integration on Playstation 4 is a waste of time to you. That's fine, and that's why they'll allow you to opt out of it (I mean, if it was otherwise, how would they deal with the people who actually don't have a Facebook account?). Don't want social integration? Turn it off! Don't want to let people watch you play games (which I assume would normally require a specific permission setup anyway)? Turn off that feature too! The rest of the console will be there, and will still be miles and miles ahead of the PS3 and Xbox 360, even without the social integration.

Actually, dedicated hardware consoles, even at release, are almost always much more powerful than gaming PCs of the equivalent cost, and will be so for at least 3 years. I say this as a dedicated PC gamer even. They also have none of the hardware and software issues.

A lot of this power comes from knowing exactly what's inside the box to program for, including hardware that specifically for gaming.

Actually, one of the reasons why this generation of PCs and PC games have been so good, stable, and affordable in hardware is because the consoles set the standard for hardware performance, and thus drove down prices while also giving one spec for PC developers to shoot for.

To be honest, there's already enough staple games I know will come out for the system that I'll be getting it on or near release day. It really just depends on which are available.

There's Killzone, Infamous, whatever games Naughty Dog plan to make, David Cage's games, LittleBigPlanet 3 from a different developer and whatever MM is up to with that awesome sculpting tech.

I'm actually wondering if Sony will make this new controller windows compatible.

I'm actually wondering if Sony will make this new controller windows compatible.

What you really should be wondering is whether or not the controller will be compatible with "all" units. Sony is pushing the portability angle pretty hard for the PS4, wanting to give you access to the console from the Vita, pads and cell phones. What if the controller could be plugged into each of those units so that you could actually make good use of the Remote Play functionality? If they do this, Windows compatibility is a given.

One thing I'm wondering about is the effect of GDDR5, as opposed to the standard DDR3. Sure it's 8GB, but I have that in my PC, I know what's possible with that much memory. I have no idea if it's worth the extra cost.

I've seen benchmarks that seem to indicate that GDDR5 is much faster by very noticeable amount in PC video cards where they compare the same chip with DDR3 memory and GDDR5.

The most intriguing thing to me about the ps4 (and the new Xbox), is this: if these things are really just going to be pcs, will they be easy to hack, install windows on them, and the just BE cheap gaming pcs? That would be awesome.

PS4 is Sony's newest opportunity to shoot themselves in the foot over and over again.

PS2 they were king of the hill - with the Wii's surprise hit with casual gamers (and Wii Sports), and MS putting forward a better foot (hell, the RRoD fiasco was backed up with what I consider to be significant support from the mfgr), they went to 3rd place (when one segments Japan out of it - I'm surprised MS has moved more than 1m 360's over there considering the cultural pushback they got).

Here's my buying weight :

Multi-platform is king, and generally any exclusive titles are not enough to justify the cost of a system alone (for me, at least).

I've got such a tight budget, I'm selling some of my gaming hardware now to brace for it. So the question is: Who is bringing something to the table that the other one doesn't do reasonably well?

Kinect 2.0 means finger movement, facial gesture recognition - I'd be all kinds of impressed if they came up with a way for Kinect to overcome disability. The PS4 controller looks WAY more comfy over the DS3 - but, ultimately it looks like a 360 controller with the dual analogs beside each other. Cool, don't need a wand as an extra. Great, touchpad for ??? - with smartglass, (hopefully illumaroom) and full kinect functionality baked in, I'm not seeing anything compelling in that last presentation.

It's no surprise that MS hasn't tried to upstage them - their presentation is more a "look at who is working with us" more than it is "check out what we have to offer". Value proposition is not established - merely potential.

Also, that Move game design by Mm? Facebook is gonna be FULL of balloon penises.

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