Okay, all this crap about him having a very slight improvement in rebounding per 36 minutes over his career is pissing me off. Situations change, statistics aren't all that matter. Watch him on the court, see how he plays, see how his body changes over the summers. It's all hard work, it all pays off, and we all saw it on the court. Maybe his stats didn't knock us off our feet, maybe his stats didn't improve very much, but as a player, he has improved considerably. From coming into this league as a skinny 220 pound euro guy that could ONLY shoot, to a guy that now weighs over 250 pounds and can actually defend the post against other bigs, and post on them on the offence. He is a guy that averages 1.4 blocks a game on a team that doesn't play offence. He averaged 17 points a game as a second option, which is pretty good actually. If you don't think Bargs has improved since joining this league, wait no. Let me rephrase, if you don't think that Bargs has improved CONSIDERABLY since joining, and has improved every summer, then you really need to get off your computer, and watch him play. Sorry.

I watched him play all last season and in far too too many games the Raptors were behind when he came out for a rest in the first quarter. Also in the 3rd quarters, there were way too too many games in which the Raptors were outscored when he was on the court.

Of course that was when he was playing next to Bosh.

We shall see how it looks this coming season when he is playing next to Davis

Tim W: Your convoluted ramblings about whether or not his offense is good enough for his lack of rebounding isn't any way to make any point...
There are PLENTY of reasons to suggest that his productivity will go up more than just marginally but first YOU need to remove your bias predicated on antiquated thinking...
First, ONCE AGAIN as I stated earlier he's a late bloomer due to his earlier development playing a different style and mentality of bball in Europe...
Secondly, He is now the #1 option therefore he will get more plays, more shots, more free throws. If he progressed gradually as the #2 or #3 in previous seasons it only makes SENSE that his progression THIS year will reflect a more significant increase...
Thirdly, the evidence that he will get 8-10rpgs is that Bosh is no longer around and he's more aware than anyone that NOW is the time to step up. He has added more muscle and continued to work on that aspect of his game during the offseason with an added emphasis that wasn't there when Bosh was still here...
Regardless of what you "stated on another thread" it's OBVIOUS on this one that you feel he has peaked in his 4th season and that once again is shortsighted thinking...

Thirdly, the evidence that he will get 8-10rpgs is that Bosh is no longer around and he's more aware than anyone that NOW is the time to step up. He has added more muscle and continued to work on that aspect of his game during the offseason with an added emphasis that wasn't there when Bosh was still here...

See Raptoroo, i know you passionately believe and hope for bargs to have a breakout season, but statements like this are just hope. and Tim is simply pointing out that your belief that bargs will improve to a level where he gets 8-10 rbds has NO EVIDENCE. its a nice thought, but just b/c a player is put into the spotlight is not good enough to warrant the belief that bargs will get better.

how do you know that now with bosh gone, the other teams top post defenders like howard, noah, bogut, etc. will be covering bargs and making it even more difficult for him to grab a board.

its not like players think to themselves, oh im only gona play 80% now, but when bosh is gone im gona STEP IT UP TO 100%...

you also mention how bargs is a late bloomer. well how can you possibly predict that someone is going to be a late bloomer ? only after the fact, can you say yea so n so was a late bloomer ? are you still waiting for kwame brown ? is he a late bloomer too ?

bargs took 14.5 fg attempts last year. bosh took 16. hedo only took 9. so i think bargs WAS the second option.

you've also made statements about how jack and the young gunz hang out together and have chemistry, but again that is just HOPE. that is not proof that they will have any chemistry ON THE COURT.

the only value in joining and reading a forum is that you get ideas and opinions from REALISTIC people. and sadly it seems like you a blind faith raptor fan who cant tolerate sometimes the not so positive aspects of the team.

Buddahfan: I think it's safe to say that anyone with half a brain doesn't expect Bargnani to do Bosh numbers this season, but this season won't hinge on one player...This is a new era for the Raps with a new system and philosophy...It's also safe to say that regardless of your abbreviated point of measure Bargs will not go down as the worst rebounding 7 footer. In fact, He will finish his career at a very respectable level...

Tim W: Your convoluted ramblings about whether or not his offense is good enough for his lack of rebounding isn't any way to make any point...
There are PLENTY of reasons to suggest that his productivity will go up more than just marginally but first YOU need to remove your bias predicated on antiquated thinking...
First, ONCE AGAIN as I stated earlier he's a late bloomer due to his earlier development playing a different style and mentality of bball in Europe...
Secondly, He is now the #1 option therefore he will get more plays, more shots, more free throws. If he progressed gradually as the #2 or #3 in previous seasons it only makes SENSE that his progression THIS year will reflect a more significant increase...
Thirdly, the evidence that he will get 8-10rpgs is that Bosh is no longer around and he's more aware than anyone that NOW is the time to step up. He has added more muscle and continued to work on that aspect of his game during the offseason with an added emphasis that wasn't there when Bosh was still here...
Regardless of what you "stated on another thread" it's OBVIOUS on this one that you feel he has peaked in his 4th season and that once again is shortsighted thinking...

vinnie_paz said most of what needs to be said.

"Thirdly, the evidence that he will get 8-10rpgs is that Bosh is no longer around and he's more aware than anyone that NOW is the time to step up."

You also seem to be confused about the word "evidence". Bosh no longer being around and Bargnani's apparent mindset is not evidence he will get between 8-10 rebounds a game. That's like saying the evidence that Amir will get 20 ppg is that he should start and will need to fill the scoring void left by Bosh. That's not evidence. Those are just facts that are unrelated to the original premise.

And please don't make a claim of something I don't actually believe and then attempt to insult me for this belief I don't even have. I don't believe Bargnani has peaked, have never said as much and in fact have said the opposite. I think he will get slightly better and could very well end up averaging around 20 ppg. I have said that he probably will never become a good defender or rebounder, but that's based on history. There's a difference between improving and changing the type of player you are. Bargnani will most likely remain a pretty good offensive player who is is weak defensively and on the boards. It doesn't mean he's peaked or that he won't improve. It simply means he's not going to magically change into a different player.

If the Raptors are underachieving heavily nest season, there's no question in my mind that he's the most talked about among us, and the majority of said conjecture will be trade demands. And yes, this...meta-thread about threads is pointless haha.

I love Bargs. But I'm not even gonna bother comment on the other thread because what that guy is saying is just ridiculous. And I am one of his biggest fans. As some may know, I have written alot about him

I love Bargs. But I'm not even gonna bother comment on the other thread because what that guy is saying is just ridiculous. And I am one of his biggest fans. As some may know, I have written alot about him

Yep, HAHA. I love Bargs, hoping he has a great year. I'm so lucky, I've supported the Raps before Bargs came, and they drafted the first ever no.1 euro pick and it was Bargs. That was a great day for me

p.s I think someone should delete that thread, gettin way out of hand...

NBA.com Thinks Bargnani Is Not A Marquee Player

Raptors

The high water mark came when Vince Carter's fallaway jumper from the corner rimmed out in Game 7 of the Eastern Conference semifinals in 2001. It's been south ever since for the prehistoric ones. All the franchise players eventually left, for different reasons: T-Mac, Vinsanity, Chris Bosh. None could carry the Raptors to the promised land. The club is now on the hunt for another marquee player; Andrea Bargnani, a former first overall pick, doesn't quite fit the mold.