Okay, I am starting this thread under JUDDD with the understanding that it may be moved to the "Other Plans" forum. Hope this make sense?

I just wanted to establish a point for the JUDDD budds to discuss the PHD temporarily and hope to figure this out once I read the book. I became fascinated with the Tater Hack and the great benefits that all of our budds seemed to be getting from taters and subsequently began reading under Mark Sisson's site about the Perfect Health Diet.

•One-half to one pound per day of meat or fish, which should include organ meats, and should be drawn primarily from: ◦ruminants (beef, lamb, goat);
◦birds (especially duck and wild or naturally raised birds);
◦Shellfish and freshwater and marine fish.

By weight, the diet works out to about 3/4 plant foods, 1/4 animal foods. By calories, it works out to about 600 carb calories, primarily from starches; around 300 protein calories; and fats supply a majority (50-60%) of daily calories.

In the shadow of the apple are foods forbidden because of their high toxin content. Notably:
•Do not eat cereal grains — wheat, barley, oats, corn — or foods made from them — bread, pasta, breakfast cereals, oatmeal. The exception is white rice, which we count among our “safe starches.” Rice noodles, rice crackers, and the like are fine, as are gluten-free foods made from a mix of rice flour, potato starch, and tapioca starch.
•Do not eat calorie-rich legumes. Peas and green beans are fine. Soy and peanuts should be absolutely excluded. Beans might be acceptable with suitable preparation, but we recommend avoiding them.
•Do not eat foods with added sugar or high-fructose corn syrup. Do not drink anything that contains sugar: healthy drinks are water, tea, and coffee.
•Polyunsaturated fats should be a small fraction of the diet (~4% of total calories). To achieve this, do not eat seed oils such as soybean oil, corn oil, safflower oil, sunflower oil, canola oil, or the like.

We highly recommend certain foods for their micronutrients. These include liver, kidney, egg yolks, seaweeds, shellfish, fermented vegetables, and bone broths.
We also recommend augmenting the diet with certain supplements. These nutrients are deficient in modern diets due to removal of minerals from drinking water by treatment, depletion of minerals from soil by agriculture, or modern lifestyles that deprive us of vitamin D by indoor living.

We recommend tweaking the diet for certain diseases. Neurological disorders often benefit from a diet that is ketogenic; other conditions may benefit from lower carb diets. These variations are discussed in the

The nutrient recommendation is approx. 1800 cals per day w/ fasting 2x weekly at 16 hours. I am interested in JUDDDing PHD style, so with my numbers it would be 1600/300. Also, I have been eating a high fat mod protein plan and found that my body loves fat. A lot! So, this seemed to be a great fit for me.

From his site...
"We are scientists with a longstanding interest in diet and health. We have been experimenting with low-carb diets since 2005, have successfully healed our own “middle-age” and chronic health problems through diet, and have learned much that we would like to share."

We believe that:
•Disease, premature aging, and impaired health have 3 primary causes: food toxicity, malnutrition, and chronic infections by bacteria, viruses, fungi, and protozoa.
•These 3 causes go together. People who eat toxic, nutrient-poor diets are more likely to contract chronic infections and do not easily recover from them.
•Yet the body has amazing powers of recovery. On a healthy diet, the immune system can tackle and defeat most infections, especially with the aid of antimicrobial drugs.
•A diet like the Perfect Health Diet should be the first treatment option in most diseases and an adjunct to therapy in all.

We are a husband-and-wife team:

Paul Jaminet, Ph.D. Paul was an astrophysicist at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, became a software entrepreneur during the Internet boom, and now provides strategic advice to entrepreneurial companies while pursuing research in economics. Paul’s experience overcoming a chronic illness has been key to our views of aging and disease.

Shou-Ching Shih Jaminet, Ph.D. Shou-Ching is a molecular biologist and cancer researcher at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center and Harvard Medical School, and Director of BIDMC’s Multi-Gene Transcriptional Profiling Core. Shou-Ching was born in Korea to Chinese parents, grew up in Korea, attended college at National Taiwan University in Taipei, and graduate school at University of Newcastle in Australia, before coming to the US to work at Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, Children’s Hospital Boston, and Beth Israel Deaconess and Harvard Medical School. Her publications may be found by searching Pubmed for “Shih SC” (through Sep 2011) and “Jaminet SC” (since Sep 2011).

I am not a big fan of organ meats, but found out from my JUDDD budd PirateJenny that there are several good supplements of dessicated beef liver that can be supped for those of us that don't enjoy organs. I do like chicken gizzards though.

This diet sounds very similar to what's espoused in Sallly Fallon's book "Nourishing Traditions", with the difference she recommends dairy, raw, if possible. I've become a huge fan or raw milk--I loved it so much I had to discontinue getting it, as I kept consuming way too much of it for down day calories! She also pushes the importance of fermented foods, as well...
--patty

I think the potato diet has shown me that I can definitely add safe starches--IF I don't add a bunch of fat and protein at the same time. In the spirit of PHD, I have been eating potatoes during the day and a veggie/protein/healthy fat dinner at night with no adverse consequences. There is a good 4 hour separation between ending potatoes and starting regular dinner. It is a super nice and comfortable way to eat.

oh, and one other thing--I bought some Uniliver tablets to try and get my liver in, but they cause me maltitol-like gastric distress. On perusal of the internet, many people have found the same to be true. If anyone can point me to a gas-free liver supplement I would be most grateful--

Okay, I am starting this thread under JUDDD with the understanding that it may be moved to the "Other Plans" forum. Hope this make sense?

I just wanted to establish a point for the JUDDD budds to discuss the PHD temporarily and hope to figure this out once I read the book. I became fascinated with the Tater Hack and the great benefits that all of our budds seemed to be getting from taters and subsequently began reading under Mark Sisson's site about the Perfect Health Diet.

•One-half to one pound per day of meat or fish, which should include organ meats, and should be drawn primarily from: ◦ruminants (beef, lamb, goat);
◦birds (especially duck and wild or naturally raised birds);
◦Shellfish and freshwater and marine fish.

By weight, the diet works out to about 3/4 plant foods, 1/4 animal foods. By calories, it works out to about 600 carb calories, primarily from starches; around 300 protein calories; and fats supply a majority (50-60%) of daily calories.

In the shadow of the apple are foods forbidden because of their high toxin content. Notably:
•Do not eat cereal grains — wheat, barley, oats, corn — or foods made from them — bread, pasta, breakfast cereals, oatmeal. The exception is white rice, which we count among our “safe starches.” Rice noodles, rice crackers, and the like are fine, as are gluten-free foods made from a mix of rice flour, potato starch, and tapioca starch.
•Do not eat calorie-rich legumes. Peas and green beans are fine. Soy and peanuts should be absolutely excluded. Beans might be acceptable with suitable preparation, but we recommend avoiding them.
•Do not eat foods with added sugar or high-fructose corn syrup. Do not drink anything that contains sugar: healthy drinks are water, tea, and coffee.
•Polyunsaturated fats should be a small fraction of the diet (~4% of total calories). To achieve this, do not eat seed oils such as soybean oil, corn oil, safflower oil, sunflower oil, canola oil, or the like.

We highly recommend certain foods for their micronutrients. These include liver, kidney, egg yolks, seaweeds, shellfish, fermented vegetables, and bone broths.
We also recommend augmenting the diet with certain supplements. These nutrients are deficient in modern diets due to removal of minerals from drinking water by treatment, depletion of minerals from soil by agriculture, or modern lifestyles that deprive us of vitamin D by indoor living.

We recommend tweaking the diet for certain diseases. Neurological disorders often benefit from a diet that is ketogenic; other conditions may benefit from lower carb diets. These variations are discussed in the

I've been following some of these recommendations such as eating liver, kidney, free-range eggs, fish and shellfish, bone broth, the types of fats recommended, and seaweed, based on other sources (including our board's own Auntie Em, Sally Fallon and Mary Enig's "Nourishing Traditions," Catherine Shanahan's "Deep Nutrition," Nora Gedguadas's "Primal Body, Primal Mind," etc.) I've also been avoiding grains, vegetable oils, all sorts of sweeteners, and legumes, as recommended above, based on primal/paleo guidelines.

On the other hand, some of the recommendations seem really arbitrary. Why are fruits and below-ground high glycemic veggies required for optimal health, particularly if one is trying to lose weight and already eating lowstarch veggies? Why should everyone eat about 1 pound of "safe starches" per day? That recommendation may be poor advice for people who are diabetic, or insulin-resistent. Why should everyone eat the same amounts--regardless of whether they are a 20-year-old 6 foot man or a 5 foot post-menopausal woman? Surely sex, age, and size differences mean that the amount of food, protein, etc. one needs for optimal health needs to be more individualized than that?

I don't mean to say that this diet wouldn't be good for some people--including some people here--but I doubt that some elements included are actually NECESSARY for optimal health. Maybe they aren't inconsistent with optimal health, for many people, but they don't seem to me to be necessary elements for all people.

I just noticed the end of the quote in your post, and appreciate that the author recommends "tweaking the diet for certain diseases" and acknowledges that "other conditions" (which may well include insulin resistence and diabetes) "may benefit from lower carb diets." So I should really have acknowledged that these recommendations are less one-size-fits-all than my response implied. If you don't have those issues--at least not when following JUDDD--then this may work great for you. Let us know how it works out for you.

I just received the book and am anxious to dive into the details. I wanted to add that the Jaminet's have quite an in-depth blog where you can get alot of information. Also on the blog they cover the difficulties of weight loss and give some ideas for tweaking their plan.

To get to the weight loss page, google: Perfect Health Diet: Weight Loss Version

This page helped me tremendously and condensed a lot of the information.

Oh yay! I've been doing this! Read the first book awhile back but just got the revised edition and have been reading the blog like crazy for the past few weeks. What a treasure trove of information it is.

I'm heading out of town tonight but can't wait to read this thread and be a part of it.

I just received the book and am anxious to dive into the details. I wanted to add that the Jaminet's have quite an in-depth blog where you can get alot of information. Also on the blog they cover the difficulties of weight loss and give some ideas for tweaking their plan.

To get to the weight loss page, google: Perfect Health Diet: Weight Loss Version

This page helped me tremendously and condensed a lot of the information.

Thanks! Just started reading and found the info on IF and the 16 hour fast. Will be back soon with details.

Sven & Jem, I agree that it seems like PHD could be heavy on the "safe starches". Since I have been doing lower carb high fat, this is a concern. I am hoping to learn what would be optimal and effective for my age. I really don't expect to be able to eat baked potatoes topped in kerrygold in abundance except for what would fit into the JUDDD paradigm.

I am thrilled that the health benefits to this plan could enhance what is already working for me.

Oh yay! I've been doing this! Read the first book awhile back but just got the revised edition and have been reading the blog like crazy for the past few weeks. What a treasure trove of information it is.

I'm heading out of town tonight but can't wait to read this thread and be a part of it.

Joyce, I am glad know that you have been doing PHD and enjoy. Please keep us updated to anything new that you learn from this plan.

Very interesting. I am going to write in the question on his blog, but from what I have read to do PHD correctly in "weight loss mode", Jaminet recommends that you do NOT cut the protein/carbs but the fat. I am anxious to see if this is beneficial for me.

I would like to add this info here for all of my JUDDD budds who suffer with hypothyroidism.

From Jaminet's blog...

Quote:

A while back I noted that hypothyroidism is a circadian rhythm disorder and that dietary steps that restore circadian rhythms, like intermittent fasting and daytime eating, should be therapeutic (“Intermittent Fasting as a Therapy for Hypothyroidism,” Dec 1, 2010).

From what I understand of the diet so far, it is by no means high carb. It is low carb despite the addition of the safe starches. Paul and Shou-Ching aver that 30% of calories from carbs is about what the body needs to supply glucose. If you're under that, your body will have a deficit (and you'll certainly get what you need via gluconeogenesis, but being too low carb can be risky in the long term according to the book) and if you get more than 30% of your calories from carbs you will have an excess of glucose for your body's needs**. So it is still very much a low carb, high fat, moderate protein diet.

I also really enjoyed that series on weight loss; though he's saying to cut the fat, it's still not a low fat diet. I think it would be easy for someone to read here and there and panic, thinking "what is this, safe starches gone wild?" or "low fat, huh???" Not saying that anyone here is doing that by any means, just something I've considered while reading over there for a while.

What I'm doing right now is taking a bit of a JUDDD break (but check back next week ) and trying the Perfect Health Diet approach within my calorie guidelines. I use Lose It and that has me at 1425 calories daily to lose 1 1/2 lbs per week. Within that, I'm attempting to get the nutrients I need (still working on that for sure!) and doing my macros pretty much according to the weight loss blog post above. I'll post my breakdown of this below too--helped me to make sense of it, writing it out this way.

So . . . a sample "weight loss" approach on Perfect Health Diet according to the formulas in their blog post on the subject would be something like this . . .

The authors never say you should eat only 1200-1400 calories--that's my estimation--but they do talk about the lower end of calories when they discuss the case of reader and frequent commenter ERP, who was older and sedentary as she awaited surgery and still wanted weight loss.

Now, if I hop back onto JUDDD (which I likely will as I have been consistently JUDDDing from March 26 through last week), I thought that I might try a higher down day (which I had been doing, and just losing more slowly) of 75 g protein, 75g carb, and 22g fat for 800 calories. The authors seem to feel strongly that one's protein + carbs should equal a minimum of 600 calories daily (of course this is presuming a full calorie day, not JUDDDing). They say if one is on the lower end of the carb spectrum--20% is still within their recommended range--then she should have a bit more protein so that the protein and carb always add up to 600 calories worth.

It's quite fascinating to me! I liked reading about their ketogenic variation which still uses the safe starch but adds coconut and/or MCT oil and I also enjoyed the safe starches panel at AHS 12 that is currently on Vimeo. Super interesting stuff. In my previously health unaware state, I have to say that I never distinguished wheat carbs from potato/rice carbs and now that I'm including more of the latter and less of the former, I am seeing a difference in how my body responds.

**Just editing to add that, on my diet of around 1400 calories this is working out to be around 70-85g of carbs a day. I know a few here have read Wolfgang Lutz's "Life without Bread" and he gives a 72g threshold for carbs--saying that health benefits below that are not so great that they are worth "taxing" the body over. Just an interesting observation about how those overlap! Also, if you watch the Safe Starches AHS panel, you'll see that Cate Shanahan says none of her patients have complained about "issues" being low carb, but then she states that she has them at about 70g carb. So, at least according to these viewpoints, it's going below 50g of carb per day for LONG periods of time that can tax the body and create long term issues. I've heard in many other areas of the paleosphere folks recommending very low carb acutely but not indefinitely.

Or, we could find out next week that Ding Dongs and Snickers are just as healthy.

I am very glad to know the ratios that you are using because I was becoming somewhat concerned about lowering my fat. I really believe I can do this! I am reading the book over the break and am contemplating going full force PHD beginning week after Christmas.

My thought is to do 1600 cal UD and 500 cal DD to begin with. I am going to follow your macros, except DD will be the bone broth & lean protein. UD should be a great day if I can have sweet taters and 300 cals of protein.

I believe many other HFMPers are really very close with lower carbs and it would be great to know exactly how you are eating! I have thrived on higher fat, but I add olives, avocado, nuts & EVOO, small amounts of coconut butter. I am thinking that my walnuts may not fit into this as much as I would like, but certainly when I arrive at goal weight.

Yeah, I can tell you that my macros have pretty much been coming in at 50-52% fat and the rest carbs/protein. So still not low fat by any stretch!

Yesterday I had some chicken wings dusted with a smidge of rice flour (it was really good!) and a baked potato with sour cream. Delicious and I didn't seem to have any blood sugar issues as I might on a potato alone.

Great idea for DD bone broth. I believe I will try that as well! Just needed my first JUDDD "break" and have done 1400 consistently for the past few days. Losing .4 lbs a day, curiously. I wish I weren't going into NYC tonight because I know I will go over my calories and won't be able to see if the trend continues. LOL!!!

Glad that was helpful! Can you tell I have been obsessing over this a bit this week? ha ha!!!

I'll definitely add some menus when I get back from my trip, Sunday! There are some links to meals via the Perfect Health blog too. One was called 10 Minute Meals, I think? I think it's via the Recipes tab.

after seeing the posting about PHD I couldn't help but post my first ever comments on this site. I started visiting this LC site yrs ago when I was on LC-VLC. I did well and lost about 20lbs. I then started JUDD and lost another 10lbs. I felt like I had struck gold on JUDD. Aftrer 6 months I was as thin as i was on my wedding day 37yrs ago. I loved being thin again, but when I saw my doctor he was surprised with how I looked and told me I had lost too much muscle and at 61yrs old I didn't need that. So that is what brought me to PHD and that was 3 months ago. I learned that fasting for 36 hrs was not good for me so now I fast 16 hrs as recommended by Jaminet. I am slowly building up my muscle again and working out with Julian Michaels. It is strenuous but I can do it. I feel very good emotionally and physically. The only health issue was keeping my blood glucose in check. I feel my health is better and more consistent. I wanted to comment here to share my experience with others my age who may run into the same muscle waste problem. I am very happy with PHD.