Well, pretty much what the title says. Those of you who have been on this forum for more than a couple of years probably know that I am a sober alcoholic. Until my detox in 2009 I was a serious boozer, drank every day, started in the morning right after I woke up, killed a bottle or two of hard liquor and a few liters of beer each day for years, and I can tell you it's no fun business. Yet when you listen to a band like Tankard or the thousands of booze-themed black/thrash metal bands you come to think that alcoholism is an essential staple of a metalhead's life. Do you think attitudes should refocus a little bit to at least increase awareness of the dangers of alcoholism, or do you think people should just have fun and find out about the risks by themselves?

Certain bands' lyrics do glorify alcohol, but as a Finn I'm quite used to it, so the phenomenon in metal doesn't really strike me as special. Not to mention how great a combination an energetic metal show and plenty of alcohol can be, even if the glorification is perhaps somewhat excessive in some cases, it can be understood if viewed from the same perspective as most lyrics in extreme music: likely exaggerated and overblown depictions of ideas the songwriters may or may or not subscribe to greatly. Think of death metal lyrics about murder and brutality: the glorification of violence is utterly unadaptable to the mindset or a functioning adult in a modern society. Compared to that, the glorification of alcohol in metal is quite small.

I started my studies last autumn, and despite the fact that my school is hardly one of the renowned alcoholic universities (like Helsinki University of Technologies), and the studies are, in general, anything but hard enough to warrant such recreation habits, the student rings really glorify excessive alcohol use and do it themselves. Not as much as droneriot described; that would make even our laughably easy studies painfully difficult.

As is only appropriate, I'm now suffering from a second day hangover, so excuse me if the post is a little scatterbrained and inarticulate.

Of course not, but I've never perceived the state of things being particularly worrisome in comparison to other festive phenomena, musical or otherwise. The use of alcohol at metal shows is excessive, no doubt, but it's no more excessive than at rock shows or student parties. Ergo, I perceive the glorification of alcohol in certain lyrics to be exaggerated in juxtaposition with the reality of metal listeners. Much like metal shows are certainly physical and even violent in nature, but hardly to the extent to which lyrics sometimes glorify violence.

I like getting wasted, but I think it's so fucking lame topic to write metal songs about though, and not because it's primitive topic at least. The drinking theme shows me a picture of fifteen year olds Korpiklani fans puking after shot without chaser or some nerd who enjoys getting wasted with shitty (often not even cheap) beer with his metal bros and sing Seek and Destroy or some other overplayed shit. After having seen so many pathetic posers becoming even more pathetic under influence of alcohol the drinking theme is unbearable for me in huge amounts. I still listen to Gehennah for example or other bands that more seldom use the topic. I usually drink with people who aren't into metal at all, so I'm bound to enjoy disco/pop under influence (it's actually bearable for me in that state).

I like getting wasted, but I think it's so fucking lame topic to write metal songs about though, and not because it's primitive topic at least. The drinking theme shows me a picture of fifteen year olds Korpiklani fans puking after shot without chaser or some nerd who enjoys getting wasted with shitty (often not even cheap) beer with his metal bros and sing Seek and Destroy or some other overplayed shit. After having seen so many pathetic posers becoming even more pathetic under influence of alcohol the drinking theme is unbearable for me in huge amounts. I still listen to Gehennah for example or other bands that more seldom use the topic. I usually drink with people who aren't into metal at all, so I'm bound to enjoy disco/pop under influence (it's actually bearable for me in that state).

That's odd, I always think of Gehennah and old school elitists talking about how fun d-beats and 80s metal culture is when I think of the drinking theme. Must be an experience thing.

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Zodijackyl wrote:

Civil has very strong and poorly substantiated opinions about anyone wielding jugs.

Heavy metal idealises consumption of alcohol, not alcoholism as a psychosomatic condition per se, because it idealises "outsiderisms" as ideas, regardless of actual possible consequences for individuals which participate in said outsiderisms. Part of my appreciation for heavy metal stems from this enthusiastic indulgence in and celebration of extremes inherent to this musical sub-culture. Exaltation is necessary for heavy metal. The habit of heavy metal's audience's alcohol consumption is, however, not directly linked to a promotion of alcohol consumption by heavy metal itself. In my opinion, it's simply that, in Western societies, (more or less excessive) alcohol consumption is generally seen as unproblematic and even commonplace. All actions against public advertisement of alcohol aside, alcohol is the socially acceptable drug.

By the way, I've almost completely quit alcohol due to an alcohol-induced liver affection, but my exaggerated consumption of alcohol had no direct relation to heavy metal. Although I will admit that what, in part, led me to try and drown my worries in alcohol was an image, an idea of alcohol I had that indubitably was a cultural, aesthetic even, construct.

However, I see no reason for heavy metal to approach the topics of drug consumption more carefully or less exaggerated.

Last edited by Aszfargoth on Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

Bah, alcohol is overrated, and is an over-used theme all throughout music. I listen to a lot of folk metal, so drinking is a pretty common topic, but I barely touch the stuff anymore so I just find it mildly amusing.

...or do you think people should just have fun and find out about the risks by themselves?

It sounds a bit mercenary but in general I think it comes down to this. Of course we all want to be more like Lemmy, but most of us are human and will discover our many shortcomings in due time. The risk/reward management is different for everyone, as is the effect alcohol has on them, how often they drink, and how much they need to drink to get the desired effect.

I can't imagine any of us want a more "responsible" message from our heavy metal? I certainly don't. Real life is nothing but a grey area, I enjoy the stark black/white contrast of heavy metal where everything is either GREAT or SHIT, GOOD or EVIL, etc etc. I could be wrong on this though, I have my finger VERY far from the pulse.

As a long time alcoholic I got to say there's nothing glorious or "cool" in getting drunk night after night. It becomes obvious when you awake in the middle of the night and start to throw up, and your toilet is covered with vomit. It's a rotten state, really. You could drink few beers at gigs and it's all cool, but beyond that, you're only killing yourself from the inside. Only thing my alcohol rotten brain knows anymore is that newer Manowar (from Louder Than Hell onwards) starts to sound incredibly cool after you've had a few beers. I wouldn't touch that stuff with a big stick when I am sober...

You really think thrash is that much alcohol-related in lyrics as a whole? I mean not just a few bands.

Anyways, it might also be cultural, as Tankard is German. There are also German and Czech punk bands which sing about drinking. Not saying you won't find an odd US punk band which sings about drinking, there was that really horrible album by Total Chaos, Anthems from the Alleyways, really horrible album as the earlier ones were much better and didn't have songs about drinking.

And I guess a lot of Oi! bands sing about drinking too, but for some reason it doesn't seem overdone in the lyrics to me. But I'm sure there are poor examples from newer bands, I've pretty much only listened to classic 1980s Oi! with very few exceptions.

But if you really want a type of music that has drinking songs, then pretty much any type of European folk style, from Ireland all the way down to the Balkans and all over Europe, and Russia too.

Finnish popular music has always glorified alcohol use, if not outright partying, ranging from supposedly amusing drinking stories in rock and schlager to lyrics about hard partying in electronic pop and such. This is the kind of stuff nobody listens to outside Finland (apart from Estonia at best), so I can imagine other countries having their own folk drinking anthems in various shapes and forms that foreigners fortunately never hear.

Compared to popular music, I'd say metal lyrics about alcohol are relatively scarce. Maybe it's the kind of stuff I listen to - out of my top 25 favourite bands maybe two consistently sing about (heavy) alcohol use.

Anyways, it might also be cultural, as Tankard is German. There are also German and Czech punk bands which sing about drinking. Not saying you won't find an odd US punk band which sings about drinking, there was that really horrible album by Total Chaos, Anthems from the Alleyways, really horrible album as the earlier ones were much better and didn't have songs about drinking.

There's the Boston based Gang Green, who's gimmick was drinking. Municipal Waste's Art of Partying is a recent example of a US band doing something similar thematically. Generally speaking though drinking was merely an aesthetic aspect of the genre and still is, even if it isn't necessarily vouched for in song.

_________________"It's not some safe thing like Fugazi where everyone sits down and eats their tofu and goes 'wow man, that's revolutionary' " - Jerry A of Poison Idea

I do think metal glorifies alcoholism, and yes, such lyrics as Tankard's do put a grin on my face. However I have to sever myself from reality somewhat when I think about this. I grew up in a household with alcoholism and I know it's a serious problem. Many of my friends are, to put it bluntly, drunks, and while this doesn't only apply to the metalheads, the number of metalheads who are drunk 90% of the times I see them is really high. There are only a couple I know who refrain. It's a little tiring and exasperating, and I know I myself have been "that drunken asshole" on more than one occasion. The thing is there's usually such a sense of camaraderie, of intoxicated exuberance, at a metal show, and the alcohol most people indulge in definitely helps with this. As a group, we tend to make the bartenders very happy, except when there's trouble, although reputedly the punks drink even more.

The worst thing is people blacking out on a regular basis and not remembering conversations you've had with them, or losing things due to drunken excess, or starting fights with your friends because you misapprehended something whilst under the influence. It's also a little awkward having to look after someone who has gone over the edge, or being that person for whom others have to look out.

So no, I don't really think metal should change, but I do view this as a sometimes unfortunate side of the culture, even if it can be quite fun. I don't drink much liquor at all these days and mostly stick to really nice/high quality beers, but I can still go over the edge from time to time...

_________________Hush! and harkTo the sorrowful cryOf the wind in the dark.Hush and hark, without murmur or sigh,To shoon that tread the lost aeons:To the sound that bids you to die.

Well, pretty much what the title says. Those of you who have been on this forum for more than a couple of years probably know that I am a sober alcoholic. Until my detox in 2009 I was a serious boozer, drank every day, started in the morning right after I woke up, killed a bottle or two of hard liquor and a few liters of beer each day for years, and I can tell you it's no fun business. Yet when you listen to a band like Tankard or the thousands of booze-themed black/thrash metal bands you come to think that alcoholism is an essential staple of a metalhead's life. Do you think attitudes should refocus a little bit to at least increase awareness of the dangers of alcoholism, or do you think people should just have fun and find out about the risks by themselves?

Heavy metal music is about self-affirmation as much as it is about fantasies and epic tales. As such, it is often about walking your own path, even if that means going against conventional wisdom.

One of the form this takes is living a fast life of excess. Experimenting with drugs and booze, fast cars, punching people in the face when they piss you off and fucking a lot. It's a subset of rock and roll and just like the music itself, the themes are also cranked to 11. Which is why it so often appeals to the youth.

There are however a lot of songs in metal that are about where this path can lead you. Cautionary tales, if you will. There are more and more but there's always been stuff like that. The greatest song about alcoholism was written over 30 years ago.

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mjollnir wrote:

Noble Beast's debut album is way beyond MOST of what Priest did in the 80s.

There are however a lot of songs in metal that are about where this path can lead you. Cautionary tales, if you will. There are more and more but there's always been stuff like that. The greatest song about alcoholism was written over 30 years ago.

There's no better cautionary tale of dangers of drugs and alcohol than watching Ozzy sing live.

Do you think attitudes should refocus a little bit to at least increase awareness of the dangers of alcoholism, or do you think people should just have fun and find out about the risks by themselves?

Metal is always romanticizing and glorifying things that are bad. Your first option is what should occur but the second is whats more realistic; people won't listen to temperance moralizing, even if it is right. I learned myself a bit about the risks of alcohol just this past New Years, my innards still haven't quite recovered from that night, so I haven't touched a drop since and probably will continue that policy through the end of January. I would definitely support refocusing attitudes more, alcohol is way overrated anyway. There are plenty of other substances out there that will get you buzzed without destroying your body.

Back on topic, it's maybe giving too much credit to the lyrics. I'm not sure that so many people dissect the Tankard songs.As for shows, that's another story. Unfortunately, some of my metal friends are the way Abo describes them (drunk all the time we meet).

It's another aspect of being counter-culture and separatist in terms of music/culture. At this point, plenty of people know some metal bands, Metallica and Pantera are two huge bands with a lot of fans who aren't into metal beyond those. Drinking is also something very common and accepted in most cultures, but there are a lot of stigmas against it, and gratuitous glamorization of excessive drinking and alcoholism is something that is still seen as unappealing to those who don't really subscribe to the "fuck you" concept of it (though plenty of other subcultures glamorize drinking in other ways).

"Never Stop the Madness"<pretty much the only thing i'll ever agree with Black Metal people with

i could've done the same thing to answer this dumbass thread but i gave it a shot so wtf what's your issue? "it kills you" "that's a dumb thing to promote" "i did it too much and ruined it for myself so now everyone else needs to know how bad it is!"

1) everything does. may as a well have that fun if you're into it 2) i'll give you that, it was a Black Metal thing after all.....but there's way worse out there just in Metal alone 3) well, that's your own fuckin fault now isn't it? don't you think it's a little high-minded of yourself too care now?

Alcoholism isn't fun you clown. Ever heard of withdrawal symptoms? If you are really serious about getting into alcoholism you should know what you're getting into. Imagine waking up with the worst panic attack you ever had, being unable to breathe, shivering, sweating, occasionally vomiting, feeling the worst you can possibly imagine, until you forced enough alcohol into your body for the symptoms to stop. If you're into daily drinking for a few years it usually takes all day for you to reach that point, so your life is basically a living nightmare. Might as well have some fun, right?

There are however a lot of songs in metal that are about where this path can lead you. Cautionary tales, if you will. There are more and more but there's always been stuff like that. The greatest song about alcoholism was written over 30 years ago.

There's no better cautionary tale of dangers of drugs and alcohol than watching Ozzy sing live.

Well, in essence, metal has always rebelled against what is in the "mainstream" or what is in the majority or what is goody-fluffy-and-happy. So looking at your question from that angle, I doubt many would venture into the 'white metal' territory and preach about the goodness of abstinence. SXC punks do it but I don't know how effective it is. I also think that while there are bands who sing about alcoholism, mostly from the punk/partythrash/crossover/humppafolk scenes, it's still not a topic that many would consider it to be a serious one. Come on, think about it...these are songs aimed at having a good time. I shall quote Wehrmacht's Biermacht.

Quote:

Alcoholics, heavyweights, listen to what I have to say,keep paying dues and drinking brews'cuz beer is here to stay when you wanna party and you must get high,

So what I'm trying to say is that, in my opinion...if you were rate all the factors that lead a person to become an alcoholic, music wouldn't be a significant one. I think it's entirely up to the nature of the individual when it comes to alcoholism. Whether or not, one is a metalhead who listens to music worshipping alcohol, he/she could be a sponge either ways.

Last edited by shouvince on Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

i used to be a heavy alcoholic and used to listen to a lot of punk and psychobilly,but now sober for just about two years i have started to listen to extreme metal because i think it relates more to the person who i am now.So..no, i think metal is probably one of the least most drinking influenced.I think alcohol glorifying is more in the mainstream these days....even keisha brushes her teeth with a bottle of jack,wow! she must be cool

Last edited by bloodycumshit on Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

I actually think it's the government's fuel,it's sad to see that just about everybody in society falls for alcohol.People are dying, killing and becoming terminally ill from alcohol.Most crime is alcohol related in my country,but yet as soon as i open the news paper ,walk into the super market and drive down the street,there is "alcohol" advertised and in ya face.In my eyes (after i finally opened them)your just feeding the rich cunts at the top buy drinking a shit load of alcohol.Making them lot's of money while you slowly slip into a dark hole that's really fucking hard to get out of.You ain't "metal" "punk" or "gangster" when you get fucked up, your just another victim of society......sorry a bit intense,dumb post's like the one above get me a bit pissed off sometimes

Last edited by bloodycumshit on Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

When I think of alcohol as a lyrical theme I always picture some jump-around Folky stuff like Korpiklaani. I guess it is idealised a lot, especially in Thrash and that particular style of Folk, but I guess whether it's idealised 'too much' is up to personal opinions of alcohol.

I dunno. Sure, alcohol is glorified, and I'd be lying if I said I didn't drink quite a bit myself, but I think a person's got a choice as to whether or not they're going to take something to far. People should be smart enough to realize that it is a possibility and that alcoholism is a serious problem, and if they decide not to take that into consideration, unfortunately I can't bring myself to feel any pity for them. I know where the line should end, and I never cross it. I'm aware of the dangers of heavy drinking, and I know when to stop. I think people should put a lot less stock in what these songs have to say. Drinking can be a blast, of course it can, but getting fucked up day in and day out is a horrible way to live. If you can't separate the song and reality, that's your own issue.

I actually think it's the government's fuel,it's sad to see that just about everybody in society falls for alcohol.People are dying, killing and becoming terminally ill from alcohol.Most crime is alcohol related in my country,but yet as soon as i open the news paper ,walk into the super market and drive down the street,there is "alcohol" advertised and in ya face.In my eyes (after i finally opened them)your just feeding the rich cunts at the top buy drinking a shit load of alcohol.Making them lot's of money while you slowly slip into a dark hole that's really fucking hard to get out of.You ain't "metal" "punk" or "gangster" when you get fucked up, your just another victim of society......sorry a bit intense,dumb post's like the one above get me a bit pissed off sometimes

It's not sad, it's nature's way of weeding out the morons. If you can't pace yourself, don't touch the stuff. Don't ruin it for the rest of us that can.

I actually think it's the government's fuel,it's sad to see that just about everybody in society falls for alcohol.People are dying, killing and becoming terminally ill from alcohol.Most crime is alcohol related in my country,but yet as soon as i open the news paper ,walk into the super market and drive down the street,there is "alcohol" advertised and in ya face.In my eyes (after i finally opened them)your just feeding the rich cunts at the top buy drinking a shit load of alcohol.Making them lot's of money while you slowly slip into a dark hole that's really fucking hard to get out of.You ain't "metal" "punk" or "gangster" when you get fucked up, your just another victim of society......sorry a bit intense,dumb post's like the one above get me a bit pissed off sometimes

It's not sad, it's nature's way of weeding out the morons. If you can't pace yourself, don't touch the stuff. Don't ruin it for the rest of us that can.

no it's fine to drink if you can handle it,i'm just saying that it's seems to be alright in society today to be boarder line alcoholic,and they love to make money off it,along with mcdonald's and coke-a-cola and the rest of the shit that we don't need...it's defiantly not natures way,and your not a moron if your an alcoholic

It used to be a lot worse in the 80's with glam and thrash bands basically living up to some stupid hedonistic stereotype, that is idolized today and recreated with all the revival acts. The thing is that music, or media in general has always used these kinds of things. It is nothing that is special about metal, but as this is a metal board I see why you would use that, or there would be no discussion.

My answer is yes, but that is my personal opinion. And the bad influence can be said about anything. A guy like Kurt Cobain killing himself, has probably influenced a lot of teens, is that his fault? No. People have to make their own choices, not give into the views of your idols! Basically not giving in to the gimmicky bullshit!

I think this is a very interesting and important subject, and I would like to know more about the experiences of people here who have had problems with drugs and alcohol, I think it is important to learn from them and it is interesting to appreciate their experience and empathize with them.

On the subject of acohol and metal, metal SURELY glorifies alcohol and getting drunk, not only in lyrics and so but the main activity of metalheads, as far as recreation goes, is to go to the pub and get wasted while having beers and listening to metal. In my personal experience metal people are NOT as bad with drugs, they don't seem to be really into street drugs, and other subcultures (mainly electronic music/dj music) seem to be the ones into hardcore chemicals, MDMA, Cocaine, Meth etc. Really sad. Of course there's a lot of drugs in rock and metal, but my personal experience with metalheads from all over the world has shown me less drug people in metal than in other social circles.

I remember watching a gig by Skeletonwitch in the Underworld in London a couple of years ago which ended with the singer saying something like "Get drunk, lick pussy and listen to metaaaaal", which pretty much sums up a triad of metal interests, alcoholic hedonism, sex/objectivization of women, and the music.

It is not a coincidence he said that and it wasn't a punk hardcore gig.

Of course the glorification of alcohol also comes in the subculture because this is a youth-culture market thing, and it is there to promote a rebelious and hedonistic approach to life, to show people that metalheads have fun and are against the system. And to drink is "to do" both....

The documentary "metal: a headbanger's journey" has a bit on the alcoholic aspects of metal with the protagonist getting drunk and having a major hang over at Wacken, Necrobutcher being drunk and obnoxious, etc. A pity he doesn't "study" this aspect on the film.