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ok folks I need to vent I've been seeking spiritually since I was 5.Been meditating since I was 14 (I'm 28 now).I've devoured spiritual texts, been on retreats,meditated for days/weeks, etc.For some strange reason I've felt, ever since I canremember, that materialistic things would not giveme happiness or peace. For the past year and a halfI have been in a severe Depression with frequent panic attacks and intolerable anxiety. I've doneeverything to try and help myself thro this...1) seen a shrink for a year (who ended up tellingme I was incurable)2) taken meds3) Meditated and been on retreats4) socialized and tried to keep busy(I bike long distance, run, race, weight train, danceswing/ballroom/latin, read etc etc).5) tried to be productive and continue programming(my original profession), started my own business,even got a patent on a crazy invention !I've tried facing my depression and anxiety,I've tried distracting myself from it, I've tried intellectualizing, analysing,I've tried self talk,I've tried finding peace in religion,I've tried "letting go"I've tried the bandaid girlfriend solution...I've been "let go"... by the girlfriend who I discovered was cheating on me I feel like I've reached an end to my road...I've DONE IT ALL !LITERALLY...and here's the result...NOTHING...AND I MEAN NOTHING HAS CHANGED........I'm still miserable, depressed, anxious, and stillhave panic attacks...

Now, when I look out at the world... I seepeople completely devoid of spirituality, who'vebeen chasing materialistic things all their lives,who love life and persue it with a joy that I canonly wish I had...

what does that tell u about Buddhist teachings, Spiritual teachings and life in general ?

Ironically I will quote scripture here that best sums it up..."?I returned and saw under the sun that?The race is not to the swift, Nor the battle to the strong, Nor bread to the wise, Nor riches to men of understanding, Nor favor to men of skill; But time and chance happen to them all."

Quote:what does that tell u about Buddhist teachings,
Spiritual teachings and life in general ?

It tells you that buddha ate alot of shrooms in his days of meditating.

I used to have panic attacks BAD. I still have a little bit of anxiety, but it's all disappearing and I am stabalizing. I used meds initially, but they didn't help so I got off them. I recovered through confidence in myself, advice from friends, and faith in my god.

i feel you on that. I can give adivce (and I will ) but also realize that everyone is different and what I've noticed is that you should really develope your own system.

if you are interested, i know this might be long, but it might prove to be helpful

this is from the first pages of a book called handbook to higher consciousness by ken keyes. I rarely recommend self help books, but I had severe depression before and now I feel uplifted to say the least. it takes from many of the philosophies of the owrld and condenses it into an easy to read guide. not to mention it's really cheap .

we learn negativity through repetition, it's the way we learn everything (repetition that is), and this gives different ideas to step back and learn happiness through repetition.

everything you mentioned had to deal with what you do to make you happy, while this explains it's not what you do that makes you happy at all. if you depend on what happens for happiness, then you are going to be left disappointed

"many of us are unhappy because we are trying to find enough security, sex, pleasant sensations, ego rushes, prestige, money, power and status. this struggle yields lives of constant resentment, worry, suspicion, anger, jealousy, shyness, and fear. most people tell themselves tjeu must do to be happy ends up yielding more frustration than joy. the more sucessful a person is in making money, collective skills and possessions, aquring knowledge and degrees, and achieving positions of status, power, and prestige, the less loving peaceful, and contented they may find themselves.

And yet it is not these things in and of themselves that create an unhappy life, it is the internal mental feeling about the desires for them that minute by minute keeps one from enjoying life 99% of the time. Addictions (or emotional backed demands) bring fear of non-fullfillment; jealousy that someone may steal our source of fullfillment, anger when someone twarts us; cynicism if constantly undersupplied; paranoia if constantly threatened; boredom if we're making no progress towards statisfying our addictions (emotional backed demands); worry if we can't see the steady supply; anxiety if we;re worried about being worried; and unhappiness when the outside world does not supply is with whatever we are addicted to. since commons snese tells us that the way things go in life is that you win some and you lose some, an addicted person has no chance of living a happy life over 90% of the time( ie being loving, peaceful, wise and effective.) And the addictive programming is not necessary to find and enjoy that which we prefer in life.

we will be ready for this type of growth into a constant supply of happiness when you realize the utter futility of trying to live a beautiful life by your efforts to rearrange or change the world of people and things outside of you to fit your emotional backed demands. we will find time and again, that you have to rearrange your own personal responses to life situations...things that we learned in our childhood that was nessary so we survive in our younger years.

as we start growing, we will find that we have always had enough to be happy. it is the patters in our heads that make us unhappy, although we tend to blame the pole and conditions outside of us for our unhappiness.

this does not require you to detach yourself from your present life. serenity can be used most efficiently if we stay with our current business and personal life. once we understand this system thoroughly, you won't need a teacher. our lives will be the best teacher for we will discover that we are always putting ourselves in learning situtions that are ideal for growth. the programming that we must changew has an unerring way of putting us into life situations that can make us aware of the exact inner work we need to do. this will add to the enjoyment of life all around.

think of all the energy we put now into the up and down hour by hour coping with our feelings will contiually trying to rearrange the people and situations in our lives so that we can be loving, effective, and happy. and yet year by year our quest may be as elusive as ever. since almost everyone around us has trouble in boming happy 95% of the time, we may have lowered our standards and decided that continuous happiness is probably not realistic. let's get rid of this notion and up our standards, after all, we are worth it!

Most of us assume that our desires (backed up by emotional feelings) are true guides to doing the things that will make us happy. but yet no one has yet to find happiness by using emotional backed demands as guides. flashes of pleasure...sure, happiness...no.

our wants and desires are so seductive...they are thought of as needs that must be satisfied so we can be happy at last. we tell ourselves "if I can jsut become president of this compnay, or if I jsut make this much money, I will be happy." It is fine to aquire these positions, and to aquire money, but it may be misleading to expect it to bring us peace, love and happiness. "if only..." so we search for these external situations, we trust in them, but we all know life doesn't go our way half of the time.

our negative emotions are a misleading result of an extensive pattern of scars we have experienced. again, uhhappines through repetition. we haven't had the chance yet to understand and love on a continuous basis..so we think it's not possible. it is how we have dealt with emotions that lead us to percieve differences that make us uptight, instead of similarities that enable us to understand and love. we percive other people and situations as threats when we rely on the external world and situations for our happiness. we respond with adrenaline, faster heartbeat, increase in blood sugar, and other jungle survival responses that prepare us for fight or flight.

think about some of the threatening situations you have felt in the last day or two. are you going to lose your job? is the person for whom you feel the most love paying attention to somone else than you? do you have unpaid bills that you cannot take care of? now these problems euther have solutions or they don't. either you can do something about them now, or you can't. if you can do something about it, then do it, even if it's jsut a first step. don't dwell on the situation, yes think about it, but not dwell, this doesn't lead to getting th problem fixed. if you are in the process of fixing it, but it'll take some time, stop dwelling while you're doing it. if you are doing what you can, then feeling negative about it doesn't help, it just hurts your mind, the body, and possibly the situation. you energy will be drained when you are worried or axious about a problem. do what you can do, but don't be addicted to the results or else you will creat more worry. if you can't do anything about it right now, then why make yourself uncomfartable about it, save that energy for when you CAN do something about it. these negative emotions in non life threatening situations jsut lowers insight and effectiveness of our actions.

if you do not hassel yourself emotionally when the outside world doesn't fit your demads (as it often does) you will be much more joyous, and really appreciate each moment of you life. we need to learn to flow with the people and things around us, because after all, we are all different, and no one is going to conform jsut for you. since we are conscious beings, the only thing we need to find happiness in life is to perceive clealy who we are, and what exactly are the real conditions. in order to do this, we need to do some inner work, and we will do this through repetition."

hope this helps man!

--------------------Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie

Quote:kaiowas said:i feel you on that. I can give adivce (and I will ) but also realize that everyone is different and what I've noticed is that you should really develope your own system.

if you are interested, i know this might be long, but it might prove to be helpful

this is from the first pages of a book called handbook to higher consciousness by ken keyes. I rarely recommend self help books, but I had severe depression before and now I feel uplifted to say the least. it takes from many of the philosophies of the owrld and condenses it into an easy to read guide. not to mention it's really cheap .

we learn negativity through repetition, it's the way we learn everything (repetition that is), and this gives different ideas to step back and learn happiness through repetition.

everything you mentioned had to deal with what you do to make you happy, while this explains it's not what you do that makes you happy at all. if you depend on what happens for happiness, then you are going to be left disappointed

"many of us are unhappy because we are trying to find enough security, sex, pleasant sensations, ego rushes, prestige, money, power and status. this struggle yields lives of constant resentment, worry, suspicion, anger, jealousy, shyness, and fear. most people tell themselves tjeu must do to be happy ends up yielding more frustration than joy. the more sucessful a person is in making money, collective skills and possessions, aquring knowledge and degrees, and achieving positions of status, power, and prestige, the less loving peaceful, and contented they may find themselves.

And yet it is not these things in and of themselves that create an unhappy life, it is the internal mental feeling about the desires for them that minute by minute keeps one from enjoying life 99% of the time. Addictions (or emotional backed demands) bring fear of non-fullfillment; jealousy that someone may steal our source of fullfillment, anger when someone twarts us; cynicism if constantly undersupplied; paranoia if constantly threatened; boredom if we're making no progress towards statisfying our addictions (emotional backed demands); worry if we can't see the steady supply; anxiety if we;re worried about being worried; and unhappiness when the outside world does not supply is with whatever we are addicted to. since commons snese tells us that the way things go in life is that you win some and you lose some, an addicted person has no chance of living a happy life over 90% of the time( ie being loving, peaceful, wise and effective.) And the addictive programming is not necessary to find and enjoy that which we prefer in life.

we will be ready for this type of growth into a constant supply of happiness when you realize the utter futility of trying to live a beautiful life by your efforts to rearrange or change the world of people and things outside of you to fit your emotional backed demands. we will find time and again, that you have to rearrange your own personal responses to life situations...things that we learned in our childhood that was nessary so we survive in our younger years.

as we start growing, we will find that we have always had enough to be happy. it is the patters in our heads that make us unhappy, although we tend to blame the pole and conditions outside of us for our unhappiness.

this does not require you to detach yourself from your present life. serenity can be used most efficiently if we stay with our current business and personal life. once we understand this system thoroughly, you won't need a teacher. our lives will be the best teacher for we will discover that we are always putting ourselves in learning situtions that are ideal for growth. the programming that we must changew has an unerring way of putting us into life situations that can make us aware of the exact inner work we need to do. this will add to the enjoyment of life all around.

think of all the energy we put now into the up and down hour by hour coping with our feelings will contiually trying to rearrange the people and situations in our lives so that we can be loving, effective, and happy. and yet year by year our quest may be as elusive as ever. since almost everyone around us has trouble in boming happy 95% of the time, we may have lowered our standards and decided that continuous happiness is probably not realistic. let's get rid of this notion and up our standards, after all, we are worth it!

Most of us assume that our desires (backed up by emotional feelings) are true guides to doing the things that will make us happy. but yet no one has yet to find happiness by using emotional backed demands as guides. flashes of pleasure...sure, happiness...no.

our wants and desires are so seductive...they are thought of as needs that must be satisfied so we can be happy at last. we tell ourselves "if I can jsut become president of this compnay, or if I jsut make this much money, I will be happy." It is fine to aquire these positions, and to aquire money, but it may be misleading to expect it to bring us peace, love and happiness. "if only..." so we search for these external situations, we trust in them, but we all know life doesn't go our way half of the time.

our negative emotions are a misleading result of an extensive pattern of scars we have experienced. again, uhhappines through repetition. we haven't had the chance yet to understand and love on a continuous basis..so we think it's not possible. it is how we have dealt with emotions that lead us to percieve differences that make us uptight, instead of similarities that enable us to understand and love. we percive other people and situations as threats when we rely on the external world and situations for our happiness. we respond with adrenaline, faster heartbeat, increase in blood sugar, and other jungle survival responses that prepare us for fight or flight.

think about some of the threatening situations you have felt in the last day or two. are you going to lose your job? is the person for whom you feel the most love paying attention to somone else than you? do you have unpaid bills that you cannot take care of? now these problems euther have solutions or they don't. either you can do something about them now, or you can't. if you can do something about it, then do it, even if it's jsut a first step. don't dwell on the situation, yes think about it, but not dwell, this doesn't lead to getting th problem fixed. if you are in the process of fixing it, but it'll take some time, stop dwelling while you're doing it. if you are doing what you can, then feeling negative about it doesn't help, it just hurts your mind, the body, and possibly the situation. you energy will be drained when you are worried or axious about a problem. do what you can do, but don't be addicted to the results or else you will creat more worry. if you can't do anything about it right now, then why make yourself uncomfartable about it, save that energy for when you CAN do something about it. these negative emotions in non life threatening situations jsut lowers insight and effectiveness of our actions.

if you do not hassel yourself emotionally when the outside world doesn't fit your demads (as it often does) you will be much more joyous, and really appreciate each moment of you life. we need to learn to flow with the people and things around us, because after all, we are all different, and no one is going to conform jsut for you. since we are conscious beings, the only thing we need to find happiness in life is to perceive clealy who we are, and what exactly are the real conditions. in order to do this, we need to do some inner work, and we will do this through repetition."

Thanks to everyone for their advice but the fact remains that I think even Hitler was more at peace and happier than I am and I'm incapable of even hurting a fly...and I seriously doubt Hitler heeded any advicefrom "handbook to higher consciousness " or anyspritual text for that matter

its all good man, I just posted that up there to see if it resonated with you at all. if it didn't then keep searching, don't give up!!!

you should be happy 95% of the time you are awake, don't lower your standards!! you're worth more than that!

--------------------Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie

I can relate to your disatisfaction with spirituality to be sure. I could write a book about the pitfalls. I joke about the 'spiritual machine" on other boards. I am a very spiritual person though, with my way about it- I follow nothing and no one save my heart these days.

I took up a mini issue with budhism in Philanthropies How to bring Heaven to earth post.

Between ascension out of the physical and detachment baloohey it's a no wonder why so many spiritualist feel isolated and lost without boundaries.

Anyway, I will take a direction different from kaiowas's just to cover more bases. That was great stuff he gave you. I read the book many moons ago.

Here's what I caught when I read your post. I felt a lot of trying this trying that put before all of the positves and those nasty little "ING" words like trying working becoming beleiving hoping wishing etc which only bring you the experience of trying hoping working etc. They keep what it is that you want out before you. They are all in the future tense which keeps your wants and wishes out ahead of you.

And when you use words like I did, tried was etc, you put it all behind you. The only you brought into your now was negative stuff.

I finally get to an I AM, present tense statement-where your creative power is for what you wish to be and it was " I AM still sad, depressed, anxious etc.

Something to know about negatives like not. The universe doesn't recognise the negatives. If you are to say I am not sad, the universe hears, I am sad and brings saddness to you.

With all the above in mind now about how this creating stuff works, and that includes emotional and mental states of well being, work in the I AM tense without negatives. watch your language and your thoughts and take note of how and what you are manifesting with it all.

Affirmations backed with intent are very powerful. We make them all of the time in our thoughts feelings and speech without any clue to what it is we are manifesting with them.

Say i am sick of this enough times and I can assure you that you will end up sick.

Get clear on what it is that you want and then start commanding it into your now with I am statements and beleive in them, feel them as if they were true, act like they are true, know that all is within you to be realised at your command.

Most importantly say apprecition affirmations for them too. Always follow up with a thank you. the universe loves it when we feel apreciation and soon, you get it trained to start giving you more of hwta makes you feel it cuz it loves it when you do.

one of the greatest things that worked for me was to stop whining about what I didn't have and to start being appreciative of what I did have. it openned the doors to all kinds of material, mental and emotional abundance.

Forget this crap about ascending out of the physical and detachment from life and material things. We are decending spirit into matter, not ascending spirit out of it. Spirituality had me almost living the life of a monk and a pauper with all of its NO NO's and I ran through a hearty bout of paranoia when it had me beleiving in everything because everything is true on some level. Yes it is, but so what. What level are you on is the only one that matters. We need boundaries of beleif for a sense of footing and security. These are not bad things.

Have to run for now. Please consider what I said about the past and future tense wording you use in your life and put focus on the I AM statements and watch out for what you are commanding with them. reread your post and you will see what I am talking about.

You have a lot to be thankful for right now too. Pick 5 things a night and give your thanks for them.

I hope to get back to this thread. I feel like I have a lot more to share on it.

Hey lucid, I remember your first post in the support forum about freaking out after a mushroom trip. I think you said that was when your depression and anxiety started. You've probably already done this but you should try to grasp what it was about that trip that made you feel so bad. Try confronting your demons and the thoughts that went through your head during that experience, and why they would make you feel depressed and anxious. There may be more to it than you're willing to confront. I'm certain the answer lies there.

Happiness is possible for everyone, but sometimes it's locked away in a vault and we don't know the right combination. Good luck!

My spirituality has been the very cure of my depression when it dramatically ended in 2001 when I 'found God' just weeks after I entered a Mosque asking for information on Islam, instead they gave me a Holy Qur'an and one well-versed man even offered to go to my place with some Islamic literature to teach me.. however, it's not like it was magic. I was sincerely looking for God in my life, and Islam happened to be the first door I opened of many doors that lead to God. I have not been depressed since then, there have been a few moments of intense stress caused by events I had no control over, but nothing like depression.. nothing like that empty feeling that you're slipping into nothing with the thought whispering in your head, "Cut to the chase, already" while the world around you seems perfectly normal and happy

I'm sorry you're depressed, but at this point you should simply see a doctor man as no one here is going to fix it. What worked for me was a complete change of formula as I went from being a bitter atheistic person to someone with complete faith and trust in God. But this is different than meditating, since who I was before God no longer exists, as it was the unconscious Zahid that was depressed.

when i have and do get depressed,one things comes to minde ,"this won't last".i see my depression has ignorance though.it lacks love,and it seems so selfish sometimes.I'm not taking about your depression,but mine.I mean caring for youself is great,but to think everything is so awful.Its really not.Even when i think like that,i know in my heart everything is better then i care to fully exbound on.We are all on diffrent levels of life.Its just like a video game.Beat the level,go on to the next one..Just wait till you get to the love boss,You'll spread love every where.

Everyone should support each other...we need kindness and compassion in this world.

it's all about the love man!!!

--------------------Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie

Buddhism can be very difficult when you are depressed. BEcause the profoundness of the Truths in Buddhism they can be difficult to come to terms with if you are not in the proper state of mind. I find that the same concepts, things like Emptiness, Impermanence and Samsara will be depressing if you are depressed but relieving if you are happy. Attitude is the key. I think Spirituality is very important in overcomming depression (it has been for me), but you must really apply yourself and have faith. It all comes down to what seems like an impossible solution: you choose your state of mind. All you have to do is reject depression and make a concious effort to meditate on positive things and think in a positive way. Don't you get sick of feeling like this? Then reject those feelings and choose something different. Depression is a mental habit, you have to break it and replace it with something better.

At the same time you can't get out of that place instantly. Ironic as it is, usually the way to make depression go away can be to accept it's existence and make peace with it. That is the beginning of positive thought. Remember, depression a part of life, everyone gets it, it will go away, don't take it too seriously. This seems contradictory to what I just said about choosing, yet really you must choose the actions which create your state of mind. You can't always choose your experiene, so in the short run you have to accept things as they are, but move forward.

If you have been subscribing to Zen Buddhism I would suggest checking out other forms of Buddhism like Tibetan or Kadampa. I think they are more helpful in creating a positive and compassionate state of mind. Rather than reject all conceptual thought you choose to use it to your advantage and create a happier mind. With Zen all you do is sit around and be Empty, which is great it can make calm and peaceful for awhile, but it does little to help you feel happier in the long run.

Providing you beleive in our multidimensionality and your existance in other lives and times, then you will know that we have soul aspects out there, fragments of our soul self. How they became fragmented from us was through various means of self rejection, self denial, due to feelings of shame, guilt, unworthyness, flat out abhorant discust etc.

These aspects are our demons. They are demon like because they are mad, and you would be too if someone rejected you and denied you of love and acceptance or forgiveness because they thought you weren't worth it. They have been cast off into isolation and have been alone, angry and afraid for a looooooooong time. They want to come back home. Home is in your heart and it's where they belong. They want your forgiveness, and acceptance, unconditional love, and warmth.

Because they have been brought back into your energy field, but not integrated is why you are feeling the anxiety, and depression etc.

Time to integrate!

Mind you, they havn't felt these things in a loooooong time and may put up some resistance to the warmth. Thats when you will feel the hieghts of their anger and fear. HOLD strong to insisting that you will love them. Hold strong to insisting that you are so very sorry and that they NEVER deserved to be treated that way. Promise them that they will be loved without condition as you remind them of what that feels like.

Keep at and you'll know when you've pulled off a successful integration. You will feel a new sense of calm and peace. You will also start to know more then you did before. Those aspects can be your greatest enemies or your greatest allies.

On top of our fragments we are also integrating our celestial aspects or ET aspects if you will. Some of them havn't even lived in a human incarnation. They wonder if it will hurt when they feel love. This is all a part of the great multi dimensional merge going on now and you wouldn't be here if you you had any doubts about pulling it off.

You have a ton of support here. This board is incredibly supportive from what I have seen.

I think I will post a cool article on demons and spirit guides to help bridge some understanding and ease fear of them.

Maybe if this doesn't click with you, it may with someone else. I felt an inspiration to go for it because there is little going around on it and people need to know whats going on. There is one great book on it called The Mission of the One Star. This woman has balls. Her courage inspired me to take the integration plunge.

We can run from ourselves but we can't hide, not for long anyway.

You'll pull through this bigger, better and stronger then ever-i just feel that.

When you get up you'll wonder what it was that bothered you 5 minutes ago. You wont be able to recal your problems. Not at least for for the time being, not until your ego reconstructs illusions once again...