JD_B3E5 wrote:Is it me or is booking SOAD financial suicide? They haven't released anything from the studio in 14 years and by the look of it, they don't plan to anytime soon.

So. Its6 SOAD nobody will care if they have new material or not its SOAD and thats all that matters . They are one of those bands who can play n not realise anything n people will come. Dont underestamate system's pulling power.

Really want to see Kiss again and missed their last tour, Maiden is always a must for me wherever they play and SOAD I've never seen and was a big fan of in my teenage years. Good set of headliners for me therefore. Which is actually really annoying because I can't abide DL, it's poorly organized with no excuse to be, the weather always sucks and 80% of the line up is often trash.... but looks like I'll be going again.

SOAD headlined in 2017, seems a bit soon for them to be back. This year's line up felt a stronger draw than next years for me, but it still looks a good line up. Not sure if I'm going at this point as I've seen most of the announced bands in last couple of years and its starting to get expensive for DL even with me just having the 3 day no camping ticket.

JD_B3E5 wrote:Is it me or is booking SOAD financial suicide? They haven't released anything from the studio in 14 years and by the look of it, they don't plan to anytime soon.

It doesn't work that way. They still have a large number of people that will go and see them. If they can shift tickets (and I suspect they can), then it doesn't matter when they last released new material. Take a look at The Sisters Of Mercy. Their last album was 29 years ago, but they're still selling out decent sized gigs every year (not Download headline sizes, but the same principle applies).

CH3NO2 -- It's the only way to be sureYou laugh at me because I'm different. I pity you, you're all the same...

JD_B3E5 wrote:Is it me or is booking SOAD financial suicide? They haven't released anything from the studio in 14 years and by the look of it, they don't plan to anytime soon.

It doesn't work that way. They still have a large number of people that will go and see them. If they can shift tickets (and I suspect they can), then it doesn't matter when they last released new material. Take a look at The Sisters Of Mercy. Their last album was 29 years ago, but they're still selling out decent sized gigs every year (not Download headline sizes, but the same principle applies).

I would say the same for Kiss. Even though they have released 2 albums since 2009, I imagine most people going for them haven't bothered to listen to those albums and the last Kiss album they remember is Pyscho Circus which was over 20 years ago

JD_B3E5 wrote:Is it me or is booking SOAD financial suicide? They haven't released anything from the studio in 14 years and by the look of it, they don't plan to anytime soon.

So long as they shift tickets then the promoter won't care.

Off the top of my head- Tool went 13 years between album and headlining- Guns and Roses 13 (or 15 if you don't count Spaghetti Incident) for their 2006 slot- Aerosmith went 6 years (or 9 years if Honkin on Bobo) for their 2010 slot

On the subject of Alter Bridge specifically - as they have been brought up by quite a few people as the band that should be bumped up for a chance at headlining after playing special guests on more than one occasion - the band need to accept a portion of the blame for why this hasn't happened.

They were on a massive upward trajectory from the first 2 albums - after 3 albums they progressed to arenas and big shows in London but those big shows were single dates to try and maximize the attendances and their arena headline shows have sold well but rarely (if ever) sell out and are often with co-headliners or very strong supports.

Since the 3rd album they've been treading water. The last 2 albums were ok but not great and hardly set the world on fire commercially and have since passed by without major press or fanfare. For AB to headline in today's environment, they need to produce an album of consistently strong, memorable songs (much like the first 2 albums) to push them over that edge that they've been teetering on for several years.

Until they do that, they will continue to 'special guests' to the old guard.

bloodofthekings wrote:Until they do that, they will continue to 'special guests' to the old guard.

The old guard who are only getting older and will eventually not be around any more. Other bands will have to headline eventually, and sooner rather than later, or Download will just collapse in on itself once Iron Maiden etc. are no longer around.

I'm pretty sure Ghost will be headlining Download in five years, but who else? If Download keeps recycling the same headliners and shirks from promoting other bands then it will have a shitload of subheadliners and second stage headliners in about ten years time.

bloodofthekings wrote:Until they do that, they will continue to 'special guests' to the old guard.

The old guard who are only getting older and will eventually not be around any more. Other bands will have to headline eventually, and sooner rather than later, or Download will just collapse in on itself once Iron Maiden etc. are no longer around.

I'm pretty sure Ghost will be headlining Download in five years, but who else? If Download keeps recycling the same headliners and shirks from promoting other bands then it will have a shitload of subheadliners and second stage headliners in about ten years time.

You may be right and Ghost are certainly a contender for a future headliner in terms of 'current' bands but this is a problem for all big festivals, not just Download. Any festival that needs to shift that many tickets to remain viable is going to have this problem soon. Problem is - whilst you raise a valid point of DL needing to plan for the future, if they take too big a hit on ticket sales in a given year then that potentially jeopardises the festival for the following year.

DL backed themselves into a corner years ago by quickly cycling through pretty much every major old headliner in existence, creating a level of expectation that's very difficult to consistently live up to, unless you book those bands again.

As I said, this not a problem of Download's making as since their inception, they've needed to compete with other festivals of a similar size, not just in the UK, but across Europe now that travel is more accessible than ever to people, thus increasing the choice and competition.

This is a reflection of a much wider problem in the music industry where, thanks to rapid advancement in technology (namely the internet), it's a flooded market where bands struggle to rise to the top as there's simply too many of them, thus nobody is viewed on the same level as Maiden, Metallica, Kiss, etc. This creates a perception that current bands aren't 'big enough' to headline a festival the size of DL and when you're charging nearly £200 for a weekend you need to offer that stature of bands on the line-up or people (rightly or wrongly) won't see it as value for money.

Look at 2017 - much younger feel to the main stage (and most of the line-up) and what happened? Despite the nice weather to boot, attendance was noticeably down.

Again, take Alter Bridge as an example - they're about to release their 6th album - how big were Maiden, Metallica, AC/DC, Aerosmith, etc. when they were on their 6th album? Fucking huge - it's not even a comparison. And then look at Avenged Sevenfold when they were first given the opportunity to headline DL - same reaction - "they're not big enough", etc, etc despite the fact that they had 6 albums, sold out arena shows and a #1 album in the UK - all of this would have previously been essential criteria for a band to be a festival headliner but now? Oh, they're not Maiden or Metallica so they're 'not big enough' - it's an issue of perception that unfortunately has gone so far that I don't see it changing until it's too late.

I suppose what DL could have done several years ago is theme one of their days (presumably the Friday) where this is the day that a 'newer' band is given the opportunity to headline whilst still having the other 2 days headlined by bands that are guaranteed to shift the required amount of tickets. But again, if similar-sized festivals are offering 3 massive headliners but DL only offer 2, where do you think the average punter will take their business?

Black Wizard wrote: or Download will just collapse in on itself once Iron Maiden etc. are no longer around...it will have a shitload of subheadliners and second stage headliners in about ten years time.

See, this is one of the problems I have with this argument; sure when the big names disappear there are less bands for DL, but on the other hand there are less bands for DL to compete with.

Take this year, DL has to compete with the Green Day and Rammstein tours for punters, Once all the big bands retire then the scale of tours competing with DL also shrink. If the choice is nothing or a festival stacked with lots of decent (not mega) sized bands then that will appeal to people instead. Instead of one stadium sized band and 2 club sized bands on main, you replace all 3 with large academy/small arena sized bands then I can see DL pulling through.

Download seem particularly risk-averse when it comes to booking headliners. Bloodstock do it pretty well where lately they've had one day booked by a new headliner, someone that's come up through the ranks. Download don't seem to want to do that at all. Even Reading are pushing up new headliners, even if they are trash like Post Malone or The 1975 (I know nothing about Reading lineup so some of their names could be proven headliners, but I don't THINK they are?). Wacken feels different as they don't really have set headliners, and while Hellfest do seem to stick to the biggest names, they seem to be able to attract more of a variety. Download, on the other hand, seem too content to just tread water with their headliners and eventually it is going to cost them.

Granted, a lot of it is that bands don't seem to reach the same levels as quickly as previously, and that's true, but that's partly because they don't SEEM to reach those levels. If festivals like Download took the risk on the likes of Ghost, Alterbridge or Bring Me the Horizon (who are surely well known enough but still haven't headlined) then in a few years they would seem big enough.

I've never been one to be all that annoyed about the recycling of headliners at DL or any festival for that matter (that might have something to do with my Maiden obsession). In all seriousness though I just look at older bands being booked as 'well at least I can see them again'. There's years and years to watch Ghost, not so much so for the likes of Maiden, Metallica, AC/DC etc.