Spyder wrote:Yeah, but things like a DSG wouldn't have made it into the retail domain without having been tried in competition first (even if not particularly successfully). Audi still successfully leverage their rallying heritage through their quattros today, as do Subaru, although with a little less elan. And on that note, wtf was the bug-eyed STI doing with chains on up at Hutt today? 2WD only and it wasn't even that bad.

FLATULENTFRIEND wrote:You've included rallying....when this is about F1.

Spyder wrote:Yeah, but things like a DSG wouldn't have made it into the retail domain without having been tried in competition first (even if not particularly successfully). Audi still successfully leverage their rallying heritage through their quattros today, as do Subaru, although with a little less elan. And on that note, wtf was the bug-eyed STI doing with chains on up at Hutt today? 2WD only and it wasn't even that bad.

FLATULENTFRIEND wrote:With motorracing I have a bit of a bias (not that I think much of motorracing in general) as I've raced classic cars and would much rather go to or watch cars that look like cars doing things that 'real' cars do on the road but faster on the track/forest etc.

When you've included Classic Car rallies. So what's your point? Because if F1 is a 'non essential use of fossil fuels', so is classic car rallying.

This has been summed up best further up the thread. Yes, F1 is non essential. But it's replacement is.

FLATULENTFRIEND wrote::eh: How many turbo charged real world cars are produced today? Not many. Its not something that'll help mum get the groceries back from Pak n Slave any faster or more economically.

blair993 wrote:what about turbo charged cars? they are a direct flow form f1 and rally!

Yes, turbo tech has not helped Diesels get better at all. And where did traction control start out?

Farty, Turbocharging is actually the next big economy thing. Smaller engines with turbo chargers. Check out VW's latest Golf range. 1.4's with turbos or turbo & supercharger (gee where have we seen that before - that's right top level motorsport) with better power & torque figures than na 2.0's and fuel consumption figures that are 20-30% better. All the switched on manufacturers are going forced induction. Even BMW are ditching large capacity na engines for smaller with turbos. Ford, Peugeot, VW, Opel, Fiat, Audi are all going down this route.

Hey don't make me get my stick boys. Turbo chargers have been around on diesel boats and locomotives 50 years before they made it to F1.

This is the problem with F1 at the moment. They are now trying to hop on the Pirus bandwagon in some vain hope that they might get some street cred back. Did they look to GM for guidance? This year has been a disaster. Suddenly they change the rules and someone who pissed Hondas money away over the years now ends up winning outright with a team run by a Ferrari team boss. Why don't they get Jacque Villeneuve back to drive next year for Brawn

It's not that the technology (ie turbos or carbon-ceramic brakes) is necessarily new, it's the applications of them that are becoming mainstream that is cool.

I've always been a fan of the technology of F1, right back from when Ferrari's had Flat-12 engines through the turbo era etc. The "racing" sometimes leaves a little to be desired, but that's OK. Hopefully this breakaway will work. The manufacturers should have stuck with it when this surfaced 5-6 years ago.

FLATULENTFRIEND youi do relise that the greatest era(i believe) of f1 was the turbo 1500cc era where that could make 1000hp from a 1.5ltr!! I don't think that anything like it had been done before not even in a train.lol. rally turbo'd cars was a dirrect run on from the turbo f1 cars. the pug205t16 had many parts straight from th f1 teams parts bin!there is still plenty on turbo cars arround.

I find the same sort of issues and disappointment that fans have for WRC as with F1. The problem is that changes within the automotive industry needed to come with the harsh reality of closure. When the best part of the sport is 25 years old, that is never a good focus for the future.

A new championship without stupid rule changes every year should be more environmentally friendly, at the moment the teams start from scratch with a new car rather than developing the existing car to make it faster.

My opinion is whoever makes the fastest car wins, and changing the rules to try and level the field defeats the whole purpose of the thing and budget limits are a farce anyway.

And anything would be better than this years boring as batshit championship, yeah the brawn is fast but I'm cynical and lean towards thinking that after spending a billion dollars developing a car Honda didn't have a decent engine to go in so rather than spend another season at the back of the field they did a dodgy deal to stick a merc engine in it, and it will be a honda again very soon once they sort themselves out.

radiusq wrote:I read ages ago that the downforce is so great on a modern F1 car that they race inverted on the ceiling. FIA should build a few courses with some loops ceiling tracks and I'might start watching it.

The Red Bull aeroplane racing circus is where it is at for you rq. I mean what does making F1 cars drive around vertical loops have to do with the real world ?? When I drive to my local supermarket in my Merc / BMW / Toyota / Renault / Ferrari I don't have to negotiate vertical loop roads so where is the relevance ?? Oh - for your entertainment - now I get it !!

Embattled FIA president Max Mosley, who said he would not be seeking re-election, had been at loggerheads with eight teams over his plans to introduce a cap for 2010.

"The basic news is that there will be no split. There will be one championship in 2010 which is I think something we all hoped," Mosley told a news conference following a meeting of the FIA's World Motor Sport Council.

"We've reached agreement on a number of items. In particular we've reached agreement on reduction of costs. We've had significant help from the teams. The objective is to get back to early 1990s levels within two years."

The Formula One Teams' Association (FOTA), headed by Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo, had objected to the budget cap which they felt could lead to a two-tier series with the teams agreeing to the cap being allowed greater technical freedom.

The governing FIA further fuelled the furore this month by publishing a 2010 entry list including all the existing 10 teams and three new entrants despite the wrangling.