I'm gonna come down on the side of Katie Holmes on this one. Maggie is not as attractive, even if she is a better actress, and the lack of continuity was grating....but that's just me.

OR... you could go and look for attractive girls' pictures all over internet and do the professional actresses do their job right. I'm sorry but a pretty face alone does nothing and certainly does not replace true talent.

Talent's irrelevant when the performance they give is grating and s***ty...

The one advantage of Maggie's performance was the relief felt when she blew up that I wouldn't have to hear her delivery anymore...

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Lets not kid ourselves. She was nominated for a Razzie because she was dating Tom Cruise (who was also nominated for War of the Worlds despite him being the best thing about that movie). It was the height of the 'Tom Cruise is nuts!' storm. They were easy targets. More importantly, their nominations guaranteed publicity for an awards show that lost any kind of relevance and fun nearly 20 years ago.

Lets not kid ourselves. She was nominated for a Razzie because she was dating Tom Cruise (who was also nominated for War of the Worlds despite him being the best thing about that movie). It was the height of the 'Tom Cruise is nuts!' storm. They were easy targets. More importantly, their nominations guaranteed publicity for an awards show that lost any kind of relevance and fun nearly 20 years ago.

Talent's irrelevant when the performance they give is grating and s***ty...

The one advantage of Maggie's performance was the relief felt when she blew up that I wouldn't have to hear her delivery anymore...

100% agreed, Maggie's a great actress but jeez I couldn't stand her. Such hammy delivery plus her Rachel just came across as a *****! I'm not a massive fan of Holmes but really some of the stick her performance gets is ridiculous, I'll get pelted for saying it but Tom Wilkinson was far worse with his gangster caricature.

I find this very hard to judge. I have an extreme dislike for the character in general. In Begins she came across as snotty, and in Dark Knight she seemed... this is me lost for words....

I like Maggie as an actress but... in The Dark Knight there were some scenes where I would gladly snap her neck and tell Bruce to just get over it and have fun with the supermodels. 'HaRvEy... HaRvEy!' STFU. And that scene where Dent has a gun pulled on him and after it she's all, Let's take the day off and f*** like Easter Bunnies. No! You should not. Stop rolling your f***ing eyes and overacting or I swear I will make a fan edit with you not in it.

That said, there were some scenes I liked her in. When she hands Alfred the letter--'It's not sealed' or whatever--and the bit where she explodes were a treat. I can't honestly say. I think she was written differently in TDK. Being different can have something to do with the actress, but not all of it.

Maybe I'm manstrating.... I feel genuine anger at this subject, and that really isn't like me at all. Plus, I'm straight and have a love for women that is only matched by my desire for Cherry Coke. I think that Maggie would be best. I'd like to have seen what Maggie would have done in Begins because I think the petulance was more on the part of how Katie delivered the lines. Overall I prefer Maggie, but seeing as I believe the character was written differently in each film, it's very hard to judge.

It would have been a lot easier to care about Rachel and remember their history if she was played by the same girl. Call me simple all you want, but re casting a role does screw up my ability to see them as the same girl... Especially as they almost had nothing in common, in the way each actress played her, and in the way they were written.

I like BB's Rachel better. And when I try to imagine Katie in TDK, it does seem better. Because even when she's not smiling, she looks sweet. She will always have that warm, girl next door face. Maggie just looked tired and pissed off most of the way through the film. Her kiss with Bruce was like the opposite of chemistry (tho it was arguabley awkward on purpose).

I mean, I am not a big fan of Katie... But in this scenario she would definitely have been better.

Agreed.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by CConn

Yeah, I'm all about subtext. I'm pretty sure I could watch two hours of monkeys mating if it had a mass of subtext underneath it all. :o

As I said, I got attached to the character in BB. Weve seen her in 3 different stages in life (as a child, as a young girl, as an adult) and being crucial to Bruce's development. I always despise casting changes because it always seems like someone different. When TDK came along, Maggie just seemed like some random old office woman with an attitude. This pretty much sums it up for me - http://gothamalleys.blogspot.com/201...hel-dawes.html

100% agreed, Maggie's a great actress but jeez I couldn't stand her. Such hammy delivery plus her Rachel just came across as a *****! I'm not a massive fan of Holmes but really some of the stick her performance gets is ridiculous, I'll get pelted for saying it but Tom Wilkinson was far worse with his gangster caricature.

I thouight it bwas clear we're choosing the less of two evils here. Maggie wasn't great. The character itself is annoying and painfully unnecessary. But God Katie was just her own snotty self, as usual.

Heh. Did Holmes turn you down at college? Your hatred for her on a personal level is quite amusing and scary.

Edit: I think the worst performance in BB by far is actually Tom Wilkinson. I mean, I love the guy in almost everything but his accent in this is all over the place and he's about as intimidating as a substitute geography teacher.

I thought Maggie looked much older than Christian. And while some time has passed, it's been just six months, not like six or even sixteen years for Rachel to progress to Maggie's eternally ticked off demeanor and aged look. Sure Katie's Rachel wasn't all rainbows and sunshine either, but there was a side that truly cared about Bruce, a side that could smile because of him and I think that was totally lost on Maggie's Rachel. Despite the talent she displayed in the role opposite Heath Ledger or Aaron Eckhart, her Rachel seriously lacked any chemistry with Bruce. I must say that was possibly the singular aspect of TDK that really let me down. Christian's chemistry with Katie Holmes worked to an extent in BB, unfortunately by TDK it was flat out dead between Rachel and Bruce, not just because of the way the script was written. For that aspect I guess I wished it could've been Katie in TDK, or even Michelle Monaghan. I've always thought that she looks like Katie, and she isn't too bad of an actress too.

My biggest beef with the way in which the Bruce/Rachel relationship was handled in BB was the kiss at the end. It felt so contrived and contradicted the warm sibling-like relationship the film had established. It was practically incest. Did anyone else feel that way?

Maggie in BB for sure. She is miles beyond Katie when it comes to acting. She might not have shown it all in TDK (underrated though) but. Maggie Gyllenhall moved me deeply with her role in Crazy Heart. Also she is brilliant in the small part of Donnie Darko.

Katie's portrayal of Rachel was more sweet and innocent, making you love her that much more. Maggie's portrayal was just annoying (in addition to the fact that her face just bothers you). Maggie dying made me feel no sympathy, but had it been Katie, I would've felt sadness.

OR... you could go and look for attractive girls' pictures all over internet and do the professional actresses do their job right. I'm sorry but a pretty face alone does nothing and certainly does not replace true talent.

You make it sound either/or. And I'm not the first person to mention the necessity of a beautiful actress in the part. The scriptwriter did that. If the script says.."well, hello, beautiful" you expect the person to be beautiful. That's all. It has nothing to do with wanting to look at pretty women. As you say, I could do it any time, any where. Lots of talented AND beautiful women out there, why not use one of those?

Heh. Did Holmes turn you down at college? Your hatred for her on a personal level is quite amusing and scary.

Edit: I think the worst performance in BB by far is actually Tom Wilkinson. I mean, I love the guy in almost everything but his accent in this is all over the place and he's about as intimidating as a substitute geography teacher.

I thouight it bwas clear we're choosing the less of two evils here. Maggie wasn't great. The character itself is annoying and painfully unnecessary. But God Katie was just her own snotty self, as usual.

Agreed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macphisto

My biggest beef with the way in which the Bruce/Rachel relationship was handled in BB was the kiss at the end. It felt so contrived and contradicted the warm sibling-like relationship the film had established. It was practically incest. Did anyone else feel that way?

I felt the same way. The kiss at the end came completely out of felt field and felt so forced and contrived.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GothamAlleys

Although to be fair, as Ive read somewhere recently: When someone like Joker thinks youre beautiful then you really have something to worry about

As Basinger's Vicki Vale can attest to

Quote:

That actress is a great idea, she looks like Katie - shes pretty but not Bimbo/supermodel pretty, just cute and young looking. That would be perfect choice for recasting. Instead we got this

Someone that looks like Begins Rachel's angry stepmother

The exaggeration in this thread is nothing short of astounding. Angry stepmother? You post a picture from a scene where Rachel is angry. Try something like this:

or this:

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