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Friday, October 31, 2008

Why 4:13 isn't a double album

The Guardian has an article about the state of the double album these days, and has this very interesting bit about 4:13 Dream:

"I mean, you'd expect the Cure - a band with past double opus form, thanks to 1987's Kiss Me, Kiss Me, Kiss Me - to be able to release a double album, right? Er, sadly not. Their new album 4:13 Dream is the "light" first half of a double collection, with the second "dark" half to be released separately in 2009.

Robert Smith recently told me the rather shocking factors behind the release strategy. Basically, Geffen were only prepared to pay them royalties equivalent to a single album, even if the album was priced as a double. In effect the label were penalising the band for wanting to give their fans more music for less. Smith insisted he didn't care about making any more money but the principle was paramount; he was furious at the idea of a major label conning him out of making the record he wanted. So he held back the second half of the album for six months and one day later, the earliest moment that his contract permitted. The concept would be intact, it would just be up to the fan to Sellotape the two "episodes" together."

DBC: It's my conspiracy theory that this is exactly what's going on. TMU/Geffen are not really promoting the album, so Robert isn't either. I don't think either side is very fond of the other at this point.The sooner they get the Dark Dream out, and finish their contract with Geffen, the better!

What do you expect from a label who forced them to use Ross Robinson on the last album, and then leave the best six songs off the release entirely. I sincerely hope that Robert takes a close look at the state of the record business today, and concludes that everybody from NIN, Radiohead, AC/DC and Guns & Roses were right to break from the label fold. The record co's are digging their own graves. (Geffen: the label who signed Ashley fucking Simpson. What more needs to be said??)

IF Robert really isn't concerned about making more money (and I sincerely believe that's true), and the decision is based solely on principle, why wouldn't Robert release it as a double album and take the hit financially? It confuses me that his main point is that he's furious the label won't let him make the album he wants. Well, they will, won't they? They just won't pay more for it. So go ahead and release the album you want, right?

I dunno, seems pointless to sacrifice getting your own way in order to make a point. If I'm an artist, and what I want to do is possible to do, I'm going to do it. Sacrificing artistic integrity to keep your integrity as an artist just seems a little...counterproductive.

Basically, by not releasing the double album Robert put up the white flag and said "you win, Geffen. You made me do something artistically I didn't want to do just to prove a point to you."

And call me naive (or gullible) if you will, but I see the next album coming along fairly soon. The band's got the songs in the bag already, and have a shitty contract to get out of; I don't see them wanting to prolong this whole thing any longer than they have to.

If Robert doesn't care about money, and the record company doesn't care to promote the new music (no videos, no ads), what's the point of doing business with them? As others suggested, why not adopt NIN distribution model and sell files or CDs directly to fans?

well, the author is asking why 4:13 dream is not double like kiss me? actually it is! it's double on the vinyl, but single cd, the same like the kiss me album ;)in fact it's much shorter than kiss me, but physically it's a double album :)btw. great info about what happens between bands and major record companies.i think the cure should find a small independent record company with a good distribution for example via polydor or something like that.

I thought ROBERT said that is was a single disc with 'all killer, no filler'?

I'm sure many bands have been in positions where they have enough material in the bag to put out an additional album... but do not. I don't expect another CURE disc for four more years (excluding remastered).

Speaking of remastered, that will probably occupy ROBERT's time for the next two+ years. So there we go...

Dammit. this blows my whole dream theory. I was really excited about the low sales of this album, for me it ment that this one last push to be a mass media radio band had failed. But now Robert will blame the low sales on promotion and such. oh well, onwards to the "dark album" and just maybe some small venue shows, crossing fingers.

if they really want to do what they please, and if they are really not interested in the money thing... then do like other artists do, including some big names... publish it online for a cheap price! or even for free! they would always find people interested in organising their live tour anyway!

I'm all confused on what a "double album" is anyway. I mean the "official" definition. I just got my 4:13 CD and Vinyl and the vinyl is 2 records. In fact hardly any CD today released on vinyl isnt 2 records. So how many songs, much music, what defines what is a double album if the single album is already 2 records?

Hi, Pinkterror! I don't know the general definition for a "double album" in the music industry nowadays, but what Robert wanted was a pair of CDs containing songs - I don't know how many songs - of two opposite tastes on each disc.

I mean it should be like the sun & the moon, black & white, light & dark, etc, etc. It reminds me of the principles of Yin & Yang.

A real "fuck you" to Geffen would have been to release the doule album anyway. We, the fans, will pay double the price regardless of the form so... I wish they had released it as they wanted to (if indeed it was their wish).

That wouldn't have been a "fuck you" to Geffen at all. They'd sell the set for a double disc price and only pay Robert for one disc, meaning that they'd be the ones making off likes bandits over this. What Robert is planning to do is the only fair thing to do considering that Geffen wants to charge the fans extra and not give Robert his fair share. I really hope this will finally teach him his lesson, and Bob will join one of the big indie labels like Merge or Domino.

Yeah. I'm not so sure I agree with that business about "he didn't care about making any more money" and he was conned out of making the record he wanted. Sounds like Geffen wasn't going to stop him from releasing the double album if he wanted to. He just wouldn't get the extra money. The fans aren't going to be cheated out of anything. We either pay $19.98 for a double album now or $9.99 for the first album and then another $9.99 for the dark album. And I'm guessing the fans would have preferred the double album now instead of yet another wait.

So, yes, this is about the money. And there is nothing wrong with that. The Cure is due the money for the second album. That's not being greedy. That's just getting paid for your work.

However, it does irritate me when somebody gets all high and mighty about how "This has nothing to do with money" and how its really about having your artistic vision or whatever compromised. The way events are described in this story just seems to contradict that.

But like I said...They do deserve that money. And its OK to say you deserve that money.

dumb_anguish, you're quite right, though it is also has to do with the principle of the matter. Geffen was being cheap and Robert didn't want the band to get conned out of the money they deserve. At the end of the day, I think it'll all be the same, tracklist-wise, and I have no real interest in a double album over consecutive album releases.