lol so someone just saying they'll donate to someone makes them a shill now? So i guess that means Obama is a Union Shill? Everyone makes a big fuss over the Citizen's United case, yet Unions outspent Corporations in 2010... Its a double standard. You can't complain when you do the exact same thing.

I like that Perry is about as anti-big government as you can get. He is slightly left of libertarian on a lot of issues. We have too much govt. and all they do is waste money. He wants to reduce the roll of the Fed. govt., and I'm all for it.

Speaking of the Citizens United case, it's going to lead to the ugliest Presidential election anyone has ever seen. Most candidates try to stay away from slimeball tactics, so outside groups will be doing the dirty work for them this time around. Unions will pour millions into attacking the Republican candidate, while the Tea Party will spend millions destroying Obama. For instance, CommunistPartyUSA has already endorsed Obama, while it's just a matter of time before the Democratic Socialists of America do the same thing. You will not be able to escape the ads letting Americans know that Obama is loved by Commies and Socialists. It's gonna happen this time.

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August 24th, 2011, 1:56 pm

TheRealWags

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Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 amPosts: 12521

Re: Ron Paul sets sights on 2012. Ten things to know about h

Huffington Post wrote:

Ron Paul Can WinRobin KoernerWatchingAmerica.com

Posted: 8/29/11 06:37 PM ET

It's hard to tell if the idea that Ron Paul cannot win in 2012 is more ignorant, in its complete lack of historical sophistication, or more arrogant, in its claim to certainty amid all the complexity of 300 million lives and the myriad issues that affect them.

Sometimes, perhaps once in a few generations, a nation can undergo what a mathematician or physicist would call a "phase change." The classic example of such a thing is a pile of sand. Every grain you add makes the pile slightly steeper and slightly higher without moving any of the other grains inside the pile, until eventually one grain is added that causes an avalanche of sand down the sides of the pile, moving thousand of grains and changing the shape of the pile.

Such behavior can be exhibited by all complex systems, and a nation -- it should be obvious -- is much more complex than a pile of sand.

The important point for those who would presume to make such grand predictions as "Dr. Paul cannot win" is that no examination of the pile of sand before the point of avalanche would tell you that, or when, the avalanche will eventually happen.

But happen it does; indeed, happen it must.

And there are numerous examples of abrupt and dramatic phase change in the politics of great nations.

The U.K., the country of my birth, provides a compelling and closely relevant example. As every schoolboy knows, Churchill led Britain to victory in the Second World War. Indeed, he did as much as any man on Earth ever has to save civilization as we know it.

Three months after the entire nation poured into the streets to cheer this great leader (the man a few years ago voted by Britons the greatest Briton of all time), Churchill went to the country in a general election to retain his position as prime minister. There was simply no way he could lose. The best slogan the Labour party, his opposition, could come up with was, "Cheer Churchill. Vote Labour."

And amazingly, that is exactly what the nation did. Churchill was defeated. No one anywhere -- including the people of Britain who voted in the election -- had even thought about the possibility. No newspaper had considered it. After all, the election was a foregone conclusion in Churchill's favor. And yet an unseen, perhaps unconscious, will of the people caused a cultural and political phase-change in the British nation that they neither knew they wanted nor knew they had the power to cause.

Many historians now say that the unseen sentiment that produced this result that shocked not just the British but the whole world was the idea that all the blood and treasure lost to maintain the freedom of the British empire and the Western world demanded something more than continuation of the old political settlement. After a huge crisis, the people wanted a whole new system. In 1945, the Labour Party, with its vision of state-delivered cradle-to-grave security of health and basic material well-being (welfare state), in some way met that national desire for a grand political change.

Following what was in fact a landslide victory for the Labour party, the character of the nation changed massively, and more change rapidly followed in the British identity, as an empire was lost and the mantle of the world's greatest power was handed to the U.S.A.

Those who have noted that one of Ron Paul's greatest qualities is his humility might also be interested to know that Churchill had put down Clement Attlee, who defeated him, with the words, "A modest little man, with much to be modest about."

Perhaps a more fanciful comparison, but nonetheless indicative: no one in China was predicting that the Long March of Mao, which began in defeat and despair, would end in Beijing with victory and the proclamation of a whole new nation under a whole new political system.

And which newspapers were pondering the possibility of the First World War just a month before it happened?

We cannot see past a phase change. I don't know if the U.S.A. will have undergone one at the time of the 2012 election, but the necessary conditions for one are all in place, as far as I can tell.

One has to reach back a good way in American history for a time of such rapidly rising sentiment that not only are our leaders unable even to think of real solutions to the problems of greatest concern (rather than just making expedient changes at the margin), but also that the prevailing political and economic system is structurally incapable of delivering any long-term solutions in its current form.

The sheer range and interconnectedness of the problems that the nation faces are such that any permanent solution to any one of them will require profound systemic change that will necessarily upset many economic, political and cultural equilibria. And that is nothing more than a definition of a national phase change.

The average American may not know what is to be done, but she can sense when the system has exhausted all its possibilities. At that point, not only does the phase change become reasonable; it becomes desirable -- even if what lies on the other side cannot be known.

As anyone can find out just by talking to a broad cross-section of Ron Paul's supporters, his base is not uniform in its agreement on the standard issues of typical American party-political conflict. In fact, Paul supporters vary significantly even in their views of what in the old left-right paradigm were the "wedge-issues." Rather, they are united around concepts that could almost be called meta-political: whether left and right really exist, and, if they do, whether they are really opposed; whether centralized government should even be the main vehicle for political change, etc.; and whether there are some principles that should be held sacrosanct for long-term benefit, even when they will hurt in the short-run.

For those with eyes to see, such realignments and re-prioritization may even be glimpses of America after its next phase change.

If Ron Paul has committed support from 10 percent of the adult population, and most of that 10 percent support him precisely because they believe he represents a whole new political system, an entirely new political settlement, then we may be close to critical mass -- just a few grains of sand short of the avalanche.

Another piece of evidence that the nation is close to a phase change and a gestalt switch is the very fact that the prevailing paradigm (from which the mainstream media, established political class, etc., operate) has to ignore huge amounts of data about Ron Paul and the movement around him to continue to make any sense. The studied neglect of data as "irrelevant" is invariably indicative that the neglected data are hugely important. If information doesn't really matter, why go to all the effort of ignoring it?

Specifically, on all the metrics that a year ago everyone accepted as useful indicators of political standing, Ron Paul is not just a front-runner but a strong one.

First, and most directly, he does extremely well in polls. The organization of his grassroots support is not just excellent; it is remarkable, by historic and global measures. His ability to raise money from actual voters is second to none. His appeal to independents and swing voters is an order of magnitude greater than that of his competitors. Secondarily, he has more support from military personnel than all other candidates put together, if measured by donations; he has the most consistent voting record; he has the magical quality of not coming off as a politician; he oozes integrity and authenticity, and, as far as we know, he has a personal life and marriage that reflects deep stability and commitment.

To believe that Ron Paul's victory is a long shot in spite of all standard indicators that directly contradict this claim is to throw out all norms with which we follow our nation's politics -- and that is a huge thing to do. The only way it can be done honestly is to present another set of contradictory reasons or metrics that are collectively more powerful than all those that you are rejecting. I am yet to find them.

If it is true that the studied neglect of data to hold tight to a paradigm is the best evidence that the paradigm is about to collapse, then the massive and highly subjective neglect of all things Paulian is specific evidence that the country is moving in Paul's direction.

Of course, none of this means that Paul will definitely win. But it does mean that a bet against him by a politician is foolhardy and by a journalist is dishonest.

It is worth returning to Churchill's career for an even more delicious example: just days before he became the great wartime leader, his career had been written off as that of a kook, and he was being discussed as someone who had extreme ideas and whose thinking did not reflect the mood of the nation. The House of Commons was abuzz with his decline and imminent fall.

And then, rather suddenly, something he had been saying for many years -- that there was something rotten in the state of Germany -- became so obvious that it could no longer be avoided. Once the nation saw that he had been right all along, he became the leader of the free world in very short order. His career changed. Britain changed. The world changed. No one had seen that coming, either. In fact, everyone thought they knew what was coming: the kook was about to disappear into political backwaters, if not the political wilderness.

Do I even need to draw the parallel?

If Paul wins, it won't be because he is the kind of candidate Americans have always gone for. It will be precisely because Americans have collectively decided on a dramatically new way of doing business -- a new political and economic paradigm -- and then he'll not only have ceased to be a long shot; he'll be the only shot.

Last week, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas asked the UN to recognize a Palestinian state. However, both Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and US President Barack Obama insisted that only direct negotiations could lead to peace in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

During his address to the UN, President Obama said that “ultimately, it is the Israelis and the Palestinians, not us, who must reach agreement on the issues that divide them.” At the same time, Obama said that Palestinians have waited “too long” for a Palestinian state.

GOP candidate and Texas Congressman Ron Paul expressed his disapproval of the US’s plan to block UN recognition of a Palestinian state in his latest Texas Straight Talk column on Monday. “I do not believe the US should use its position in the UN Security Council to block their membership,” Paul wrote.

Paul also qualified his position on Abbas’ request for UN recognition of a Palestinian state. The Texas Congressman pointed out that he has never been a big fan of the UN. “Personally I wish the United States would de-recognize the United Nations,” Paul admitted. In fact, Paul said that if he were approached by the Palestinians he would “counsel the Palestinians to avoid the United Nations.”

While Paul said he supports the idea behind Abbas’ request because he believes in the “self-determination of peoples,” the Texas Congressman professed that he doesn’t view “UN membership as a particularly productive move for the Palestinian leadership.” Citing examples such as Libya and Iraq, Paul argued that UN membership is “no guarantee that sovereignty will be respected.”

Paul posited that the best approach to the Israeli-Palestinian peace process for the US is to avoid the debate altogether and “end all foreign aid, stop arming foreign countries, encourage peaceful diplomatic resolutions to conflicts, and disengage militarily.”

Have Americans read Dr. Ron Paul's written plan for the country? Are Americans ready to upset the apple cart in a controlled and methodical way for the betterment of the greater good? The main source I am referencing here is Dr. Ron Paul's website, so that we can debate his priorities and proposed approaches. I have paraphrased items from his site; however, I encourage the reader to thoroughly review all the links.

Here is Dr. Ron Paul's 11-point plan:

11. Energy Independence: Eliminate the federal gas tax of $0.18 per gallon and eliminate the EPA, allowing prosecution of polluters to answer to citizens, not Washington, and allowing coal, oil, nuclear and other forms of energy to be safely explored.

10. Education: Dr. Paul would like to see the U.S. Department of Education return its powers to the states and parents. He proposes and intends to give parents a $5,000 tax credit per child for kids K-12 to help with all the costs of education. He is supportive of home-schooling and will veto legislation that interferes with parents choosing to home-school their children.

9. Workers' Rights: Dr. Ron Paul is against forcing workers to join unions and pay dues if they do not want to, citing the $8 billion that union leaders bring in annually that is often given to political candidates. He does not want workers forced to belong to unions or to be under union control against their will.

8. Protect Gun Rights: Protecting the right of Americans to keep and bear arms. Here is an example of a town that required each head of household to own a gun. This policy resulted in decreased crime.

7. Heath Care: Dr. Ron Paul will repeal Obamacare, allow for tax credits and deductions for all medical expenses and not allow money that belongs in Medicare or Medicaid to be misused for other purposes. He will protect the privacy of American citizens' medical records from the federal government, remove barriers for all citizens to have HSAs and keep the FDA out of vitamins and alternative treatments. Also, he wants to provide payroll deductions for terminal illnesses and caregivers.

6. Pro-Life Issue: Here is the one fact all Americans need to know. Dr. Paul is the only Republican candidate who has said, "So while Roe v. Wade is invalid, a federal law banning abortion across all 50 states would be equally invalid." Abortion is one of the most divisive issues and may always be a divisive issue as long as Americans have freedom of religion and the right to be, think and feel differently. Dr. Ron Paul may be personally pro-life; however, his voting record indicates that, even if a bill attempting to make abortion illegal federally in the U.S. were passed by the House and Senate, Dr. Paul would veto the bill as unconstitutional. Which other Republican candidate has a track record to indicate that? Would Dr. Paul look to put pro-life judges on the Supreme Court bench? Probably as much as past Republican presidents. The current Democratic President has recently placed two women on the Supreme Court, and new Justices are appointed only when a Justice dies or retires. Six Republican Presidential candidates have already signed the Susan B. Anthony List 2012. Dr. Ron Paul is the safest Republican candidate because he would veto anti-abortion bills at the federal level and support states that chose to protect women's reproductive rights. His other strong Constitution-based reforms outweigh the small risk that Roe v. Wade would be overturned during his term, returning the power to the states, who can then protect women's reproductive rights, as Vermont has. Would he truly respect the states' rights on this, considering his strong personal stand? Many progressive states have anti-abortion laws on their books that are not enforceable due to Roe v. Wade. So far, Dr. Paul has written bills to make it possible for states to make abortion illegal in the Sanctity of Life bill. He wrote the We the People Act, which, if passed, would render Roe v. Wade invalid and return powers to the states. He signed the Susan B. Anthony list, which describes federally defunding all abortions and Planned Parenthood. If Dr. Paul can fix the economic mess, is the slight chance that Roe v. Wade would be rendered invalid something Americans are willing risk for the betterment of the country in many other important areas? We will not ever go back to a time before birth control, morning-after pills, RU 486, the Internet and other advancements. Certain states, even with Roe v. Wade, are extremely restrictive.

5. Immigration: In Dr. Paul's own words:

Quote:

Immigration reform should start with improving our border protection, yet it was reported last week that the federal government has approved the recruitment of 120 of our best trained Border Patrol agents to go to Iraq to train Iraqis how to better defend their borders! This comes at a time when the National Guard troops participating in Operation Jump Start are being removed from border protection duties in Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas and preparing to deploy to Iraq and Afghanistan! It is an outrage and it will result in our borders being more vulnerable to illegal entry, including by terrorists.

Also, we need to take serious steps to prevent terrorists from gaining easy access to targets on our soil. Quite alarmingly, even with the knowledge that the 19 terrorist hijackers entered our country legally, and that 15 of them were from Saudi Arabia , student visas from terrorist sponsoring countries are still far too easily obtained. In a baffling move President Bush struck a deal with Saudi King Abdullah in 2005 to allow 21,000 more Saudi young men into the US on student Visas. Of course, not all students from terror sponsoring countries are terrorists, but I place a higher premium on the security of the American people than the convenience of citizens of hostile countries. We should not be making the goals of would-be terrorists easier to accomplish, but rather should be vigilant about defending against enemies at every turn. They should not be slipping through our doors so easily, using our immigration laws against us, and that is why I proposed the Terror Immigration Elimination Act (HR 3217) to toughen standards for VISAS from countries on the State Department's list of terrorist sponsoring countries in addition to Saudi Arabia . Just as you decide who to invite to a dinner party in your home, we should be in charge of who we allow in this country, without apology.

Also:

Quote:

Both the Bush administration and congressional leadership have promised to spend the next two months addressing national security issues. But real national security cannot be achieved unless and until our borders are physically secured. It's as simple as that. All the talk about fighting terror and making America safer is meaningless without border security. It makes no sense to seek terrorists abroad if our own front door is left unlocked.

In short, Dr. Paul's plan is to secure the border, end amnesty, abolish welfare to illegal immigrants, end birthright citizenship and protect lawful immigrants.

4. National Defense: Dr. Paul's approach is simple. He believes in a strong national defense and is against militarism -- in other words, protect the U.S. but do not police the world and require congressional approval before declaring war. The last time the U.S. formally declared war was World War II in 1941. Dr. Paul would bring the troops home to protect America. Dr. Paul said he would get the troops home as soon as the ships would get here. He is the largest recipient of donations from soldiers in the U.S. military, getting 71 percent of all military donations.

3. Taxes: Dr. Paul would support an amendment to the U.S. Constitution that abolishes income and death taxes. Ideally, he'd like to close the IRS. He would seek to repeal capital gains taxes and reduce then abolish taxes on Social Security. Before a flat or fair tax would be implemented, Dr. Paul would ensure that the 16th Amendment, which made income taxation legal, would be repealed so we don't end up with both.

2. End the Fed: The Fed was created in a time of turmoil and seems similar to the Patriot Act in that it was done from a position of hysteria, not logical and rational decision-making. The U.S. Constitution is considered such a well thought-through document as it was drafted in a time of peace rather than as a reaction to a panic. Documents and policies that are reviewed and seen in the light of day by calm, rational people tend to be better for the long-term wellness of the people than policies passed quickly in an emotional, reactive and hurried manner. Dr. Paul equates the Fed with deeply-in-debt parents sending their teenagers out with credit cards and blank checks. Dr. Paul's ultimate goal would be to see the Fed end, yet he would not act rashly. What his focus would be is a full and complete audit of the Fed, as Congress is currently unable to audit the Fed. Dr. Paul would commit to passing legislation that requires transparency and accountability from the Fed. At this time, the Fed can keep secret to whom they are lending trillions of taxpayers' dollars. If the Fed is handling American money responsibly, for what reason would they refuse to open their books? We American citizens are all subject to audits from the IRS, but the U.S. central bank is not? Please take three minutes to watch this amazing video of Bernie Sanders asking Ben Bernanke, where $2.2 trillion of taxpayer money is. Bernanke will not answer the question and will not disclose where $2.2 trillion went, and he doesn't have to.

1. Economy: Dr. Paul's plan is to audit the Fed, veto any unbalanced budget and refuse to raise the debt ceiling. He is also committed to getting rid of self-dealing and corruption in D.C. Additionally, he will eliminate income taxes, capital gains taxes and death taxes. It would be a breath of fresh air to have the Fed audited and wasteful government spending eliminated, and to actually be able to keep more of the money we make. America's debt did not come out of nowhere. In 2008, the U.S. had spent $3 trillion on the war in Iraq. The current costs are at $3.2 to $4 trillion. How much did we vote to increase the debt ceiling? We raised the $14.3-trillion debt ceiling by $2.4 trillion, to $16.7 trillion on Aug. 2, 2011. Here is a great 10-minute video with Dr. Paul clearly stating how, if elected president in 2012, he would balance the budget in one year.

In this discussion, I request that emotional reactions and sarcasm be set aside. The goal is an accurate, clear and truthful dialogue. We are blessed with a group of knowledgeable Americans making comments here. What I want to suggest is that we discuss what is best for the greater good for our country, not just for ourselves.

Any presidential choice we make involves a risk. Is he lying and manipulating to win the election, or is he honest? Will she serve American citizens ethically and honorably as president? The U.S. Constitution was created to unite the states in our country in certain crucial areas, like national defense, while allowing states their autonomy and uniqueness. In the spirit of Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, good character is the most essential quality to bring to our government. Dr. Paul combines solid character and backbone with seasoned wisdom and experience. He has not compromised the values and principles that America holds dear.

If you are not going to register as a Republican and vote for Dr. Ron Paul in the primary, who do you think is better, and for what reasons? Don't state what you dislike about Dr. Paul's plan. It is easy to shoot someone's ideas down.

"[At times of hysteria] that is all the more reason the President has to speak out for what is right. Otherwise, he's got no reason being in the White House. The President has to do the leading in a case like that. I've said before, the President is the only person in the government who represents the whole people. There are some who can afford to hire lobbyists and others to represent their special interests, but the President isn't elected to pull strings for anybody. He's elected to be the lobbyist for everybody in the United States. And, he is, too, if he's any good."--Harry Truman (from Plain Speaking: An Oral Biography of Harry S. Truman, by Merle Miller, Tess Press 1974)http://www.huffingtonpost.com/laura-tri ... 47832.html

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September 27th, 2011, 4:17 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Ron Paul sets sights on 2012. Ten things to know about h

11) I don't like the elimination of the EPA, unless there is criminal culpability, and LARGE criminal culpability for polluting. The fact that a business can dump waste where ever it wants, and then just go out of business, or re-organize under a different name is ridiculous.

10) Teacher's Unions would have a fit, but i like the voucher program. IMO the private sector would do a much better job with education than public schools have been doing.

I like all of the rest of it, but like I said before, I just don't see the guy getting elected.

September 27th, 2011, 5:47 pm

regularjoe12

Off. Coordinator – Jim Bob Cooter

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 4195Location: Davison Mi

Re: Ron Paul sets sights on 2012. Ten things to know about h

wjb21ndtown wrote:

11) I don't like the elimination of the EPA, unless there is criminal culpability, and LARGE criminal culpability for polluting. The fact that a business can dump waste where ever it wants, and then just go out of business, or re-organize under a different name is ridiculous.

10) Teacher's Unions would have a fit, but i like the voucher program. IMO the private sector would do a much better job with education than public schools have been doing.

I like all of the rest of it, but like I said before, I just don't see the guy getting elected.

See i HATE that thinking. I cant help but think that if everyone i know who said that, said "screw it Im voting for him anyways" in the primaries, i bet he WOULD get ellected. . but how much of "he probably wont get elected" is due to the percesption that he wont, as apposeted to actual suppport of the people that he gathered. I challenge you and everyone else. Vote for who you think is best, no matter what, DO NOT vote for who you think will win.

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September 28th, 2011, 11:12 am

TheRealWags

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Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 amPosts: 12521

Re: Ron Paul sets sights on 2012. Ten things to know about h

regularjoe12 wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

11) I don't like the elimination of the EPA, unless there is criminal culpability, and LARGE criminal culpability for polluting. The fact that a business can dump waste where ever it wants, and then just go out of business, or re-organize under a different name is ridiculous.

10) Teacher's Unions would have a fit, but i like the voucher program. IMO the private sector would do a much better job with education than public schools have been doing.

I like all of the rest of it, but like I said before, I just don't see the guy getting elected.

See i HATE that thinking. I cant help but think that if everyone i know who said that, said "screw it Im voting for him anyways" in the primaries, i bet he WOULD get ellected. . but how much of "he probably wont get elected" is due to the percesption that he wont, as apposeted to actual suppport of the people that he gathered. I challenge you and everyone else. Vote for who you think is best, no matter what, DO NOT vote for who you think will win.

Agreed. I would also add (and this is, IMO, the tough part) to vote for the person that is best FOR THE COUNTRY, not necessarily who might be best for your PERSONALLY. Our beloved Country needs us to help her, once we do she will help us in return.

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September 28th, 2011, 11:56 am

wjb21ndtown

Re: Ron Paul sets sights on 2012. Ten things to know about h

regularjoe12 wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

11) I don't like the elimination of the EPA, unless there is criminal culpability, and LARGE criminal culpability for polluting. The fact that a business can dump waste where ever it wants, and then just go out of business, or re-organize under a different name is ridiculous.

10) Teacher's Unions would have a fit, but i like the voucher program. IMO the private sector would do a much better job with education than public schools have been doing.

I like all of the rest of it, but like I said before, I just don't see the guy getting elected.

See i HATE that thinking. I cant help but think that if everyone i know who said that, said "screw it Im voting for him anyways" in the primaries, i bet he WOULD get ellected. . but how much of "he probably wont get elected" is due to the percesption that he wont, as apposeted to actual suppport of the people that he gathered. I challenge you and everyone else. Vote for who you think is best, no matter what, DO NOT vote for who you think will win.

You may be reading that wrong. I'm not saying that I don't think the guy will get elected because of his stances, or because he may be running as an independent. As I've said before, I just don't see the guy as looking or acting "presidential." I'd like him as a VP, just not a Pres. Like it or not the Pres goes out and represents the country. I really can't see him doing that well. He comes off as frail, weak, and wishywashy... Even when he's solid in his convictions his bodily mannerisms have a way of coming across as if he doubts himself. I don't want that out of the leader of our country.

September 28th, 2011, 5:30 pm

conversion02

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Joined: January 26th, 2005, 9:34 pmPosts: 10889Location: Sycamore, IL

Re: Ron Paul sets sights on 2012. Ten things to know about h

While I do agree with Ron on many things and I usually enjoy listening to what he has to say, eliminating the EPA is foolish. The general public a morons. If it was up to the random joes, there would be no nuclear power. I have a license to operate a nuclear plant and I generally don't tell anyone, because they have no idea what that means and they just ask weird questions about TMI, Chernobyl, and Fukushima. And then go on to tell me how it kills all the fish and poisons drinking water and so on

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September 29th, 2011, 11:05 pm

regularjoe12

Off. Coordinator – Jim Bob Cooter

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 4195Location: Davison Mi

Re: Ron Paul sets sights on 2012. Ten things to know about h

wjb21ndtown wrote:

You may be reading that wrong. I'm not saying that I don't think the guy will get elected because of his stances, or because he may be running as an independent. As I've said before, I just don't see the guy as looking or acting "presidential." I'd like him as a VP, just not a Pres. Like it or not the Pres goes out and represents the country. I really can't see him doing that well. He comes off as frail, weak, and wishywashy... Even when he's solid in his convictions his bodily mannerisms have a way of coming across as if he doubts himself. I don't want that out of the leader of our country.

There is a whole other side of the coin that you look like you may be missing. Right now we have a president that comes off as sturdy, strong, and steadfast. Even when he doesnt know whats going on around him his bodily mannerisms have a way of comming across as if he has no doubt in all the world that what hes doing is the right thing to do. So basically you got what you want out of the look of a president and where has that got ya?

I challenge you to think about it this way: Do you believe he will follow up with 60-70% of the things he is campaining on? (lets face it 2/3rds would be a pretty good closing rate for any presdent in todays world) If you do, who cares what he looks like? (Skeletore be damnded!)

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September 30th, 2011, 1:07 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Ron Paul sets sights on 2012. Ten things to know about h

regularjoe12 wrote:

There is a whole other side of the coin that you look like you may be missing. Right now we have a president that comes off as sturdy, strong, and steadfast. Even when he doesnt know whats going on around him his bodily mannerisms have a way of comming across as if he has no doubt in all the world that what hes doing is the right thing to do. So basically you got what you want out of the look of a president and where has that got ya?

I challenge you to think about it this way: Do you believe he will follow up with 60-70% of the things he is campaining on? (lets face it 2/3rds would be a pretty good closing rate for any presdent in todays world) If you do, who cares what he looks like? (Skeletore be damnded!)

You think so? IMO Barry O comes across as a first-class p*ssy, the nerdy kid that got beat up on the playground but still continued to act like a pompus azzhat. I haven't seen him stand by ONE conviction, EVER.

The problem with Ron Paul and his stances is, that while they may sound good, and look good on paper, there's absolutely no way that he will be able to get them done. If I had to pick a president based on who I think would do the most, be most strong in his conviction, and not waiver, it would be Cain, hands down.