Biz & IT —

Mozilla evangelist: Apple HTML5 demos harm the open Web

Apple recently launched an HTML5 showcase on its official website with several demos that are intended to highlight some of the advanced Web development capabilities that are made available by emerging standards. The showcase has attracted criticism from standards advocates, however, because it pops up a message telling users that they will need to download Safari in order to view the demos.

Some of the demos legitimately require Safari because they use Apple-specific Web features that are still at extremely early stages of the standardization process, but most of the demos will function properly in Chrome and Firefox. Apple's clumsy browser detection mechanism and careless attitude about the distinction between Safari features and actual standards has raised some troubling questions for the Web community.

It's worth noting from the start that the underlying idea of Apple's HTML5 showcase is not itself controversial. In fact, the Mozilla Hacks blog and Google's Chrome Experiments gallery both serve similar purposes. All three sites have some demos and content that rely to an extent on nascent technologies that are not yet supported across multiple browsers. It's also important to understand that browser-specific features are a necessary and important part of the Web's evolution—most new features that become standards are originally implemented in some experimental form by one of the major browser vendors.

The problem is that Apple's showcase lacks sufficient disclosure and clarity regarding the level of cross-browser support and industry acceptance for individual features.

Some of the language on the showcase page is misleading, and the message that it displays to non-Safari users is detrimental to the long-term goals of the HTML5 standards effort. Telling users that they need one specific browser in order to view HTML5 content downplays the availability of HTML5 support in other modern browsers and wrongly inflates the perception that HTML5 is fragmented. It's also troubling because it sets a bad example for third-party Web developers regarding best practices for browser detection.

Oddly enough, Apple has a whole separate version of the showcase on its developer website that exhibits none of these offensive characteristics. The more appropriately named "Safari Technology Demos" page has the same demos, but doesn't categorically block alternate browsers. I was able to test the demos in Chrome and found that most of them worked as expected. This alternate page is accessible by clicking the "Developers" link at the bottom of the HTML5 showcase. This alternate version of the showcase is much closer to how it should be done.

I don't think that anybody objects to Apple having a Safari Technology Demos page that shows off a mix of emerging Web standards and Safari features. But it's not appropriate to conflate browser-specific functionality and open standards in the manner that the HTML5 showcase page does.

Mozilla evangelist Chris Blizzard voiced his concern about the issue in a recent blog entry. He characterizes Apple's HTML5 showcase as a misguided marketing stunt and explains why it is detrimental to the browser ecosystem. He says that the browser block on the demos is a "F**k You" to the people who make and run other standards-compliant browsers. He also voices some criticism of Google, which he says has made similar mistakes in promoting its Native Client technology and other nonstandard features.

"Apple's messaging is clearly meant to say 'hey, we love the web' but the actual demos they have and the fact that actively block other browsers from those demos don't match their messaging. It's not intellectually honest at all," Blizzard wrote. "HTML5 is in a dangerous place since everyone wants to own it, but everyone is in a different place in terms of support or even what it means. I can’t promise what other organizations will do, but I can at least say what I will do in the future. At Mozilla, intellectual honesty matters and it matters to me personally. So I don’t think you’ll see us do things like this in the future."

Indeed, Mozilla has a reasonably good track record when it comes to accurately conveying the standardization status of Web technologies. This is particularly evident in the Mozilla Hacks blog, where posts consistently include appropriate disclosure in cases where nonstandard or Mozilla-specific technologies are discussed.

The real power of HTML5 is that it is vendor-neutral technology that anyone can implement and support with their own authoring tools. Apple should change its HTML5 showcase page to reflect the true spirit of the standard: interoperability and cross-browser support.

"The demos below show how the latest version of Apple’s Safari web browser, new Macs, and new Apple mobile devices all support the capabilities of HTML5, CSS3, and JavaScript. Not all browsers offer this support. But soon other modern browsers will take advantage of these same web standards — and the amazing things they enable web designers to do."

Seems to me they aren't misleading anyone, if anyone bothers to actually read that text.

Happy to accept the point that Apple are blocking other browsers. What are the competing browsers doing?

I ask because it looks like a whole lot of nothing to me. Hopefully I'm wrong and Mozilla are sponsoring a great set of demos (or at least officially linking to them). If I'm right, then this guy is just whining that someone else is not offering his browser a free ride, and that'd be just sad.

Since no self respecting independent software developer would go anywhere near Apple anyway, I don't see this negatively affecting them.

You don't know many "independent software developer"s then? Let's just say that seeing a partially-eaten apple emblazoned on the back of a laptop is not a rarity at any platform-agnostic development meet...

Tried those demo's in Chrome on Windows and they all worked just fine.

One thing that impresses me about HTML 5 and will make me stand by it is how insanely fast those demos are. If those were done in flash, they would be really slow and take a while to load. The HTML 5 demos loaded instantly and no extra software was needed to download.

I think you are misinterpreting the article and need to read it a bit more carefully. Ars piece was very non-bias and covered a number of different companies opinions on the matter. I can't find any pro-Apple comments from Ryan Paul, the person who wrote this article. The evolution of web comment was not pro anything, it was merely stating a fact.

The banner ad at the top of the page is from Adobe saying "We Love Choice". Kind of ironic since I was thinking how the Apple site is only about as obnoxious as sites that only serve contents through a proprietary plug-in I don't have installed. Adobe loves choice only so long as you make the choice they want.

I think Apple's move would have more ramifications if they were anything more than an also ran in the browser market, especially on Windows.

Er...uh...Maybe that's because while Apple might be ahead of the game...there are at least inline for the future. Internet Explorer HAS HAD YEARS to get on board and being that it's still the worlds top software company...the get no pass!

I'm an Apple fan, but this is weak sauce. Some middle manager in the safari group probably gets a bonus if they increase downloads 10% this month, so he asked his development team to force users to download safari in order to look at the demos.

There shouldn't be any browser blocking going on. Instead, put a warning at the top of the page that says, "your browser was made by microsoft in in 1999 and it stinks. please consider downloading safari 5 if you want to try these demos".

It also seems like there is some unfair intermingling of technologies that we all know will definitely be in the final HTML5 with some [currently] proprietary technology that may or may not make the cut. Apple needs to separate these out and be clearer about which already have broad support and which are Apple's pet projects.

Happy to accept the point that Apple are blocking other browsers. What are the competing browsers doing?

I ask because it looks like a whole lot of nothing to me. Hopefully I'm wrong and Mozilla are sponsoring a great set of demos (or at least officially linking to them). If I'm right, then this guy is just whining that someone else is not offering his browser a free ride, and that'd be just sad.

And theseum - take that weak trolling to the Battlefront.

Have you ever heard of http://www.google.com? There you can find examples of other HTML5 demos that have been around for quite some time, say for example http://www.chromeexperiments.com for one. Just sad indeed when you end up calling someone a troll for no good reason but for ignorance.

It was a Safari running HTML5 demo. Not just an HTML5 demo. If you're trying to look at it in a browser that's not yet fully up to it, how exactly do you think that's going to make HTML5 look to the ordinary user?

Let's say you run an HTML5 demo thing in Firefox that makes the browser crash because it clashes with some extension of yours. Are you going to conclude that Firefox sucks or are you going to say "Hey. This new technology blows. It made my browser crash." The average computer user isn't going to know whether the point of failure is the website or the browser. If Firefox and Chrome want to show off what their browsers can do with burgeoning web standards they can go ahead and make demos of their own. It's a little unreasonable to expect Apple to hamstring its own product demo to be in line with someone else's lowest common denominator browser that may or may not support the stuff they're trying to show off. This really just seems like people getting on Apple's case for not letting them piggy-back on their marketing, which just reeks of such an unearned sense of entitlement.

I'm just happy Apple is promoting the advancement of web standards that are greater than what IE 6 provides. I can understand people being slightly upset about what Apple did, but if what they did has the chance of making anybody with an old n busted browser upgrade to something newer that's what I care about.

"The demos below show how the latest version of Apple’s Safari web browser, new Macs, and new Apple mobile devices all support the capabilities of HTML5, CSS3, and JavaScript. Not all browsers offer this support. But soon other modern browsers will take advantage of these same web standards — and the amazing things they enable web designers to do."

Seems to me they aren't misleading anyone, if anyone bothers to actually read that text.

That looks very misleading to me. They are saying:"Hey look we implimented these standards and by standards we mean you must use Safari."A standard to me means this is what W3C says is in the standard.

Also, saying "Not all browsers offer this support." for something that is not coming from W3C is very misleading if you're claiming you are just demonstrating what is in the standard.

It's also important to understand that browser-specific features are a necessary and important part of the Web's evolution—most new features that become standards are originally implemented in some experimental form by one of the major browser vendors.

That may be true during development but, once any features or functions are associated with a standard, even a developing one, the vendor ties must be cut. That's the whole problem here, Apple blurring the line between browser-specific functions and HTML5 stuff. Excluding obviously exclusive features like updates and add-ons, the message should simply be, "Your browser must support standard XYZ." Period. That should be the policy of all the vendors, and all web developers. This browser-specific crap has got to stop - there's no longer any need for it.

1. From what I understand, the demos don't actually only use HTML5 standards, but Webkit versions of these standards, ie procedure calls with a "webkit-" prefix in their name.

2. As PavJ just above correctly points out, you can't make a HTML5 demo and allow it to run on non-HTML5 compliant browsers because everybody would believe it's HTML5's fault they don't work. If Apple was true and fair, they would have the actual HTML5 demo run alongside a Flash / .MOV or otherwise screencast version of the same so everybody would be able to tell what it is supposed to look like and who how the demo renders on the actual user's browser. Then only a warning message would be required for non-compliant browsers instead of a complete block.

Apple is a big company and it's quite possible that the part that decided to promote HTML 5 ran afoul of the group that wanted to promote the Safari brand. Sad that it happens, but unless you are being disingenuous and just want to score points, it's usually a better bet to attribute it to departmental incompetence than outright maliciousness.

I'm glad that big companies are promoting HTML5 and CSS3 even if it is often for self-serving reasons. Criticize Apple all you want, but they have almost singlehandedly advanced the mobile Web experience AHEAD of the desktop Web experience in terms of what a developer can expect to be the baseline standard for browsers.

Jeez, not so long ago mobile browser vendors were arguing about whether WAP or cHTML was the better bet!

"The demos below show how the latest version of Apple’s Safari web browser, new Macs, and new Apple mobile devices all support the capabilities of HTML5, CSS3, and JavaScript. Not all browsers offer this support. But soon other modern browsers will take advantage of these same web standards — and the amazing things they enable web designers to do."

Seems to me they aren't misleading anyone, if anyone bothers to actually read that text.

Just as with conformance to the ACID tests, Apple is leading the field. Firefox developers are just showing themselves up to be the amateurs that they are with their unwarranted unprofessional complaints. They should waste less time bleating and attempt to catch up with their implementation of HTML5.

I get the complaint, but at the same time these demos are very much consumer facing. Who reads a list of conditions besides developers, regular people want to interact with the demos out of curiosity not for diligence sake. I imagine most users when prompted to download give up and developers know how to fudge the user agent string. So Apple pushing HTML5 to consumers via the easiest and clearest manner it can is that detrimental to Firefox and Chrome and HTML5 in the long run? HTML5 has a long way to go and it can use good marketing especially now that Apple has generated some momentum for it by trashing Flash.

There would be no issue here if the developers used feature detection rather than browser detection. MS may have completely selfish reasons for pushing such a paradigm, but it makes a hell of a lot of sense

I get the complaint, but at the same time these demos are very much consumer facing. Who reads a list of conditions besides developers, regular people want to interact with the demos out of curiosity not for diligence sake. I imagine most users when prompted to download give up and developers know how to fudge the user agent string. So Apple pushing HTML5 to consumers via the easiest and clearest manner it can is that detrimental to Firefox and Chrome and HTML5 in the long run? HTML5 has a long way to go and it can use good marketing especially now that Apple has generated some momentum for it by trashing Flash.

By using Apple specific code, Apple is making sure they won't work with other browsers. Exactly what MS did in the past. The only difference being we won't be seeing browser ballot in OS X anytime soon.

It was a Safari running HTML5 demo. Not just an HTML5 demo. If you're trying to look at it in a browser that's not yet fully up to it, how exactly do you think that's going to make HTML5 look to the ordinary user?

Seriously. There's absolutely nothing to get up in arms over here. I'm not sure what people think Apple's supposed to do here. It's a demo for standards that are not yet fully implemented in most browsers, and it's a demo for showing how far along Safari is on that path. If they didn't do the browser check, a bunch of people would visit the site in IE8 or whatever, and conclude that HTML5 is really awful because nothing worked. So, they're left with the choice of making HTML5 look bad for most people (no browser check), or just dealing with a little bit of misplaced neckbeard rage on a handful of Internet forums (browser check). Considering that the latter would happen no matter what they did, it was surely the lesser of the two evils. And as PavJ stated, it's a Safari-running-HTML5 demo, not just an HTML5 demo. Also, they do provide an alternate page without the browser check, it's just not the very first thing you stumble upon.

It also seems like there is some unfair intermingling of technologies that we all know will definitely be in the final HTML5 with some [currently] proprietary technology that may or may not make the cut. Apple needs to separate these out and be clearer about which already have broad support and which are Apple's pet projects.

Unless you can point to something specific, as far as I can tell from a quick run through the source everything in the gallery is either part of the HTML5 or CSS3 proposals (or related standards) or they are Working Drafts with the W3C which hopefully will become part of the standards.

Call them pet projects if you like, but this bootstrapping approach is how these standards are finally advancing after years of stagnation ... example, Apple proposed a solution for CSS gradients but their implementation sucked and Firefox had a better implementation, which looks to become the standard implementation. This is good.

Going forward, they should require validation from WWC in order to claim they support HTML5.

There should be no "We support these tags and added these other custom ones". It should be just, you do or your don't and works identical between browsers.

If they want to extend it a bit, they should still require full compliance to the standard if they want to claim any HTML5 support THEN once they support the standard, they can claim additional HTML5 extensions. I don't wanna see HTML5-Safari vs HTML5-IE bull crap.