First reactions: I like it. We get a legit big-league, proven player who still has some good years left. Better yet, it's good to be wanted...after being spurned and flat-out ignored in the past, the Indians finally got their guy, and one of the top players in the market, to boot. Sends a great message to the rest of MLB that we can bring big players in. Hopefully the start of a new perception for this team, who may have finally realized you have to spend some money and get out of your comfort zone in order to survive. Bold trades, aggressive offers...how much does Francona deserve credit for this newfound legitimacy? (Plus, looking ahead to next year's ahead free agent market, there doesn't appear to be anyone worth pursuing better than Swisher. The time to strike was now.)

Now, on the other hand, his contract (especially that vesting fifth year...not liking that) will probably be an albatross by the end, but let's worry about that in 3 years. For now, let's just enjoy this moment and what it (hopefully) signifies.

Already the national writers and pundits are pissing in our Cheerios by saying he only signed with us because his market was limited by the new CBA, which would have cost the other teams in contention for his services a first-round pick, which they were ultimately unwilling to do. Of course, the writers are probably right. But let's not worry about that right now!

Adverb Harry wrote:First reactions: I like it. We get a legit big-league, proven player who still has some good years left. Better yet, it's good to be wanted...after being spurned and flat-out ignored in the past, the Indians finally got their guy, and one of the top players in the market, to boot. Sends a great message to the rest of MLB that we can bring big players in. Hopefully the start of a new perception for this team, who may have finally realized you have to spend some money and get out of your comfort zone in order to survive. Bold trades, aggressive offers...how much does Francona deserve credit for this newfound legitimacy? (Plus, looking ahead to next year's ahead free agent market, there doesn't appear to be anyone worth pursuing better than Swisher. The time to strike was now.)

Now, on the other hand, his contract (especially that vesting fifth year...not liking that) will probably be an albatross by the end, but let's worry about that in 3 years. For now, let's just enjoy this moment and what it (hopefully) signifies.

Not sure what Francona or anything else had to do with it.

Not like they beat out anyone. They were the last ones left (or at least among them) - holding that kind of money.

At least it might placate the "Dolan is cheap" crowd for about ten minutes.

Look, I've never been as much on the "Dolan is cheap" bandwagon - more on the "MLB set-up is ridiculous" lean. If I blame Dolan for anything it's lumping him in with the other small market owners that let this farce continue - eschewing fairness on the field, just to RAKE in their shared money.

So, at the end of the day, this is what we have - a move many Tribe fans like, but really, didn't they just overpay an OK player?

Really? Nick Swisher for that money?

There were good teams - good teams with money, that took a pass at those numbers. Don't listen to me, listen to them.

Only in MLB could a poor move at worst, or a non-factor move at best be looked forward to fondly by a fan base.

Contract right at market value for a good player, who has decent splits from both sides of the plate, who will hit for power, play an average defensive outfield, works counts, takes walks, didn't have to be acquired via trade, worth nearly four wins each of the last three seasons, a RC+ (runs created adjusted for park factor) of 128 (would have been second on team behind Choo), would have led team in WAR by .5 wins, would have led team in weighted on base average with .363 (over 30 points better than league average for RF).

He's essentially a Choo replacement without the god awful split against LHP.

This is a great move. I don't know if it'll help us make a playoff run over the next four years because our pitching still needs a ton of work, but this is a big addition to our lineup. Frankly, to me, it looks like we got Bauer and Stubbs for some spare parts and a second-round pick, because Swisher and Choo largely cancel out.

Swisher's also played 148 or more games each of the last seven seasons. With a DH spot open still, that can serve as his "day off".

Love everything about this move.

Let's not forget, the Dolans are cheap.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

I believe the recent aggressiveness is all about Francona. I still believe he doesn't agree to be manager without some guarantee's from the Indians and I'll bet his O.K. is on every move.

That said, I am glad that this will be the first year in a long time I'm convinced that the Indians start out in better shape than the year before.

Swisher being a local boy from where I live should get the Indians a few more fans in what should still be a good Indians market but isn't.

I've never heard anyone speak bad about him. Despite his dad being who he is I never once heard about Nick having a big head. I think he will soon be a fan favorite. Whether the contract is a good one, we will let time decide that.

Its a good move, if only because they lock in a good player at a pay rate that in one year will be obsolete, and his contract will seem like a bargain. Plus he is possibly a tradeable commodity. He will help to make the team better, not playoffs better but better none the less.

Its obvious we might have been his last choice but Hey he could chose retirement, so at least we are a better option than that

Great. We still need 2 SP, another OF, and a DH. I'd love to seem them make a move with Perez and/or Droobs to fill those holes with young very near MLB ready guys with the idea of contending big time with the "Lindor Wave". But if they wait till the trade deadline to do so would be ok too. I'm curious to see if Francona makes an impact immediately before I blow it up.

bookelly wrote:Great. We still need 2 SP, another OF, and a DH. I'd love to seem them make a move with Perez and/or Droobs to fill those holes with young very near MLB ready guys with the idea of contending big time with the "Lindor Wave". But if they wait till the trade deadline to do so would be ok too. I'm curious to see if Francona makes an impact immediately before I blow it up.

I don't mind not having a DH right now. We can rotate a lot of guys into the role for mental health days. Cabrera and Kipnis really wore down last season. Aviles is a far better player than Jason Donald, so we can afford to use him more often. I think Yan Gomes makes the team to get some DH at bats.

A fourth outfielder is a need, but it wouldn't shock me to see them let Carrera, Neal, and Fedroff fight for that role in the Spring. You've got Brantley and Stubbs, who can both play CF, so CF isn't a pre-requisite for the 4th OF.

Yep, 2 SP is a definite need. Now that we've signed Swisher, I'm curious to see who we go after. It will indicate how much money we really have to spend. I think they might get one of Marcum/Saunders/Lohse and then get some more NRI, minor league deal guys, like Kazmir, Dallas Braden, maybe Carlos Zambrano. Guys who are extremely low-risk, medium-reward.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

fairvis wrote:I think this is a good move. The Buckeye connection never hurts in popularity with the fans as well.

All it took was that Buckeye connection, $2million more per year than anyone else wanted to pay and a vesting 5th year for an additional $14million that no other organization would touch.

Honestly, I don't care the money. It doesn't matter to me.They're actually a couple million below where they were to end the season.

Their OF id better offensively and defensively (Stubbs much > Brantley in CF and Brantley > Slop in LF while I have always believed Choo was overrated defensively despite a legit 5* arm).

They are worse defensively on the infield with Reynolds and Chiz at the corners than they were w/Kotchman and Hannahan but better offensively.

But they have a hole in pretty much every spot in the rotation. Way too many "ifs" (if Ubaldo..., if Masterson..., if McAllister...if Carrasco...) there for my taste and you can slot in any mediocre 4th and 5th starters and not begin to touch the holes at 1-3 in the rotation.

IMO they went from a 94-loss team to an 86-90 loss team.

Better ain't good. Hopefully they don't confuse the two and they're still looking for needles in the starting pitching haystack.

Apparently Swisher can also play above average 1B. We could slot Reynolds into the DH and pick up another outfielder. What's the market on Bourne? I'd say 4/40 to 5/55. Do we have an extra $12 Mil laying around? With the Swisher signing they stand at about $65 now. If they can move Perez that frees up another $4. Droobs another $5. Last year was $66. Sooooo...we could theoretically have about $10 left to be back at last years level (depending on the players we would get back...but obviously they would be at minimum.)

Is it that much of a stretch to go to a $68 payroll and sign Bourn? Or even $73 if we can sign a 5th starter? Or $78 if we sign a 4th?

Francona must have come here knowing we'd spend more money. We'll see soon.

Well, this is another things that hasn't been touched upon yet - word around the campfire was there weren't too many guys in the Yanke lockerroom not fed up with schtik.

So, by about 2014, not only won't they be getting value, he'll be about on everyone's nerves.

Again, no big deal, this stuff will all play out. I'm comfortable in a prediction of Nick Swisher not being all that good in a couple years (if he even is the next couple) and you'll be hearing leaks in the lockkeroom about his hillbilly show.

Hell, he's on teammates last nerves when they're winning a hundy, can't imagine the barrel of monkees when they are losing 90.

[quote="bookelly"]Apparently Swisher can also play above average 1B. We could slot Reynolds into the DH and pick up another outfielder.

If they can move Perez that frees up another $4. quote]

I like the idea of Reynolds at DH. If they need a catcher, they could trade the Mets for John Buck (who was a throw-in the RA Dickey trade) who can hit a few balls out of the park to play a few days a week if the Indians want to have Santana at 1B and Swish in RF.

Reliable RP isn't too hard to come by in the trade market if they can make deal. Trading Perez and maybe a prospect for a Starting pitcher, while moving Pestrano into the closers role.

Any way you cut it, we are several starting pitchers away from getting into 3rd place in the division as it stand right now. Tito definatly did not sign up for the roster to remain the same as it has been for the past few years. Hopefully LaPorta's days are finally numbered.

"Cocaine is a hell of a drug" - Originated from a famous skit in Dave Chappelle's "Chappelle's Show". The skit would portray Rick James, usually high on cocaine, preforming doing crazy and stupid things, such as smacking Charlie Murphy in the face. Rick James would frequently explain away his actions by saying "Cocaine is a hell of a drug".

Well, this is another things that hasn't been touched upon yet - word around the campfire was there weren't too many guys in the Yanke lockerroom not fed up with schtik.

So, by about 2014, not only won't they be getting value, he'll be about on everyone's nerves.

Again, no big deal, this stuff will all play out. I'm comfortable in a prediction of Nick Swisher not being all that good in a couple years (if he even is the next couple) and you'll be hearing leaks in the lockkeroom about his hillbilly show.

Hell, he's on teammates last nerves when they're winning a hundy, can't imagine the barrel of monkees when they are losing 90.

I can't imagine the Yankees clubhouse being an easy place to have a good time. I mean in a regular locker room, of course there will be conflicts and problems...not everyone is friends, but in that room it has to be crazier than normal with the circus acts they have.

1 Working for the Steinbreeners2 NY Media following there every move3 14x the normal amount of media in the room everyday (don't forget about the foreign media contingiency)4 A new overinflated ego (I'm new new high-priced free agent to come into town, Im here to save all of your asses, I make more than everyone else, I don't give a shit about anyone other than myself, Dealing with MY ego is YOUR problem not mine)5 f your not winning and in first place the sky is falling

"Cocaine is a hell of a drug" - Originated from a famous skit in Dave Chappelle's "Chappelle's Show". The skit would portray Rick James, usually high on cocaine, preforming doing crazy and stupid things, such as smacking Charlie Murphy in the face. Rick James would frequently explain away his actions by saying "Cocaine is a hell of a drug".

Ridiculous. Only in Cleveland do the cynics find a way to bash a very good move. Who gives a fuck if we go from 94 losses to 86 losses? That's improvement. Improve the next year and go from 86 to 80. You set yourself up for contention by getting better on a yearly basis.

This is a very flawed team. They answered a need (Bauer) without downgrading at a key position. That's a good thing. They're still not near contention. But they're on the path towards it.

As for Swisher and the Yankees, yes, a free spirited guy in a very strict clubhouse isn't going to go over well. What a big fucking newsflash. Guys can't even have long hair or facial hair as members of the Yankees. So, Swisher doesn't fit the "Yankee mystique" and bow down to its bullshit. Good for him.

The fact that he produced like he did in a clubhouse that didn't like him is my takeaway. Some guys would let that be a distraction. Swisher didn't. He went out there and hit.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

I think the fans at least will find it a refreshing change of pace. Choo was a big ZERO in the personality department. Kip, the Mafia, and Justin are cool and I think will get along just fine with Nick.

Carrasco and Brantley will cause way more clubhouse problems than Nick.

skatingtripods wrote:Ridiculous. Only in Cleveland do the cynics find a way to bash a very good move. Who gives a fuck if we go from 94 losses to 86 losses? That's improvement. Improve the next year and go from 86 to 80. You set yourself up for contention by getting better on a yearly basis.

This is a very flawed team. They answered a need (Bauer) without downgrading at a key position. That's a good thing. They're still not near contention. But they're on the path towards it.

As for Swisher and the Yankees, yes, a free spirited guy in a very strict clubhouse isn't going to go over well. What a big fucking newsflash. Guys can't even have long hair or facial hair as members of the Yankees. So, Swisher doesn't fit the "Yankee mystique" and bow down to its bullshit. Good for him.

The fact that he produced like he did in a clubhouse that didn't like him is my takeaway. Some guys would let that be a distraction. Swisher didn't. He went out there and hit.

Has nothing to do with "Yankee Mystique" or anything else.

Whatever. Again, it'll all play out.

And I'm a cynic or a realist.

If you re-check my posts concerning the Tribe over the years you'll find it's much, much more of the latter.

And this wasn't only in New York, by the way.

I thought the Bauer deal was good. I think this one is not.

Bottom line: Not sure why I'm supposed to be excited about a decent corner outfielder falling to them, and only cause they were holding the most money.

Cause that's what happened.

Call it a cynic's view.

But that's what happened.

It MIGHT be a good deal. But when you weigh the factors it's LIKELY that it won't be.

And I can't wait till like April 13th when someone gets a game winning hit to get their record to 3-2, and Swish is givin' guys noogies at home plate...can't wait for the first "SWISH is great for the clubhouse" quote.

By the way, I used to think he might be that type of guy - until he went to Chicago....and word leaked out of Oakland....

skatingtripods wrote:Ridiculous. Only in Cleveland do the cynics find a way to bash a very good move. Who gives a fuck if we go from 94 losses to 86 losses? That's improvement. Improve the next year and go from 86 to 80. You set yourself up for contention by getting better on a yearly basis.

This is a very flawed team. They answered a need (Bauer) without downgrading at a key position. That's a good thing. They're still not near contention. But they're on the path towards it.

As for Swisher and the Yankees, yes, a free spirited guy in a very strict clubhouse isn't going to go over well. What a big fucking newsflash. Guys can't even have long hair or facial hair as members of the Yankees. So, Swisher doesn't fit the "Yankee mystique" and bow down to its bullshit. Good for him.

The fact that he produced like he did in a clubhouse that didn't like him is my takeaway. Some guys would let that be a distraction. Swisher didn't. He went out there and hit.

Swisher is solid but I'm not a fan of spending anything extra on the next two years, which are academic as far as contention goes. And I really like your articles but I'm confused why you get into such a lather over this front office. I know we don't spend much but what have we averaged the last 5 years? 73 wins?

"Well then I guess there's only one thing left to do...win the whole, f***in', thing."- Jake Taylor

skatingtripods wrote:Ridiculous. Only in Cleveland do the cynics find a way to bash a very good move. Who gives a fuck if we go from 94 losses to 86 losses? That's improvement. Improve the next year and go from 86 to 80. You set yourself up for contention by getting better on a yearly basis.

By WAR, Nick Swisher was the 43rd best position player in baseball (top 30% of qualified hitters). In wOBA, he was tied for 30th (top 21% of qualified hitters). 20th among qualified OF in WAR, 14th in wOBA.

Second best free agent OF available in wOBA, fourth in WAR behind Bourn, Hunter, and Hamilton.

But, yeah, he's only "decent".

Sorry, I shouldn't be using stats to prove my point. From now on, I'll make my assessments based on the three or four times I see a guy play throughout the year.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

It looks like a good signing now, especially after watching Damon, Cunningham, and Duncan stumble around last year. The front office should never have charged major league ticket prices and trotted those guys out there. That's defrauding the fans.

Now at least they have a legitimate major league outfielder. But in a couple of years when Swish is no longer producing at a $14 million per year level and we can't afford to go out and sign a much needed starting pitcher because his contract is an albatross, it won't look so great. We were regretting Hafner's $13 million a year for the last three years; Swisher might be the next yoke around our necks.

However, he has been pretty healthy the last few years, but then so was Pronk when we signed him to that extension.

The Indians now have a legitimate major league veteran at every position except third, where Chiz can't yet be described as a veteran. Their starting nine should be competitive, and their bullpen looks very good. It will all come down to the starting pitching.

bookelly wrote:Apparently Swisher can also play above average 1B. We could slot Reynolds into the DH and pick up another outfielder. What's the market on Bourne? I'd say 4/40 to 5/55. Do we have an extra $12 Mil laying around? With the Swisher signing they stand at about $65 now.

Is it that much of a stretch to go to a $68 payroll and sign Bourn? Or even $73 if we can sign a 5th starter? Or $78 if we sign a 4th?

I will say this, if the problem some people have with this signing is the contract length, then that may be a fair criticism. It's hard to imagine a 35-year-old Swisher maintaining the same level of production in 2016. I get that.

The over-35 3+ WAR crowd is small - Soriano and Jeter. So, it's a fair criticism. But, Swisher's not 35 until November 2015. That gives us the majority of this deal to get quality production out of him. By 2016 or 2017, it might look bad, but for the 2013-2015 part, 3/41, there's a really good chance that he outperforms market value.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

As Peeker and others have said, better is good-if not good enough at this point. But since they need to make choices on where to improve, because resources are limited, I will repeat my wish that they'd prioritize trying to be really good in the starting staff. Esp. with the relief staff they have. Bauer was a good start. Piecemeal the lineup together with the Deluccis of the world and youngsters if they need to. Some are liable to pan out. Nobody is untouchable in acquiring FOR-type guys. The FO showed they agreed, in 2011 with the Ubaldo trade, and we all agreed with the thinking on that move, didn't we? Again, not complaining on Swisher, but giving up $/players/prospects to acquire potential studs for the staff >>>> using up limited payroll to get stars into the everyday lineup. At least this seems more sound than the Victorino thing.

skatingtripods wrote:By WAR, Nick Swisher was the 43rd best position player in baseball (top 30% of qualified hitters). In wOBA, he was tied for 30th (top 21% of qualified hitters). 20th among qualified OF in WAR, 14th in wOBA.

Second best free agent OF available in wOBA, fourth in WAR behind Bourn, Hunter, and Hamilton.

But, yeah, he's only "decent".

Sorry, I shouldn't be using stats to prove my point. From now on, I'll make my assessments based on the three or four times I see a guy play throughout the year.

Prosecutor wrote:It looks like a good signing now, especially after watching Damon, Cunningham, and Duncan stumble around last year. The front office should never have charged major league ticket prices and trotted those guys out there. That's defrauding the fans.

The Indians now have a legitimate major league veteran at every position except third, where Chiz can't yet be described as a veteran. Their starting nine should be competitive, and their bullpen looks very good. It will all come down to the starting pitching.

I agree that this is the best starting OF and lineup we've had in awhile. I am happy with the signing and think that this offseason so far has been a great start to a return to respectability...

"Cocaine is a hell of a drug" - Originated from a famous skit in Dave Chappelle's "Chappelle's Show". The skit would portray Rick James, usually high on cocaine, preforming doing crazy and stupid things, such as smacking Charlie Murphy in the face. Rick James would frequently explain away his actions by saying "Cocaine is a hell of a drug".

It's a silly signing. If you have the philosophy that a small market team must compete in 'windows' of time ... then clearly the end of this Swisher contract is going to be small albatross once our next window comes around. In the same way the Tribe was handcuffed by the Hafner contract in '10 and '11.

Although the pressure is not the same in Cleveland as it is in New York, there is still pressure on a player when he is the biggest contract on a small team. I don't think Swish is going to be able to handle it when he is struggling on a losing team and getting criticised for it.

I'm pretty sure Carlos is silly as well. Remember his little dance when he was about to hit home after his walk-off granny? And I distinctly remember a few times where he'd stop by and bother the STO pregame guys during their on-field stuff at home.

Brantley & Droobs...no idea. But, if they can handle Kip & Vinnie, Swish should be no problem.

peeker643 wrote:I want me to have fun. I honestly don't give a shit of those guys hate each other and can't stand coming to the park if they win 95 games.

I'll watch bloopers if I want to laugh.

Swisher's act has worn thin everywhere he's been, by the way. Not to say it's not new and fun at first, but it's worn thin everywhere. And it's always fresher when you're winning.

True but teams, especially young teams, tend to play better when they stay loose & fun. Then again, like you said, it's easier to stay loose when you're winning.

No, teams play better with better players.

Teams have fun and play loose as a result of winning.

That's why you always see and here about these "fun'lovin" teams during post-season times.

Remember all those fun-lovin' teams that blew? Neither does anyone else.

Barry Bonds was a miserable prick. Hit better than any nice guy I ever knew.

And this post isn't a knock on Swisher, it's kinda in line with what Peeker brings up about certain intangibles. Nick Swisher will help the Cleveland Indians if he plays well. If he doesn't, he and his whoopie cushions and chattering teeth ain't gonna do anything to help a team win.

It ain't that hard to be a good teammate - a guy people like. It's much harder to become a good major league baseball player.

Just google "Nick Swisher Annoying" and let the search engine take over. There are players (usually anonymous, of course) pretty much everywhere he's played who say his ways get very old.

Right, because what the New York media says and what their elitist, void of personality players say about a guy should be gospel. The fact that Swisher still produced in a clubhouse that didn't like him, and tried to suffocate his personality, tells me all I need to know. Oakland wasn't exactly a fun environment when he was there either.

He's in a place where he can be himself, with a media that ate him during his press conference, and a fan base that should come to adore him. Francona dealt with a lot of personalities in Boston and did it well. He's here with guys like Pestano and Kipnis, who are a little off the wall. They're not as animated publicly the way Swisher is, but I really think he'll be a great fit in this clubhouse.

Ultimately, like you, I don't care what he's like if he has a .365 OBP and hits 25+ HR. Everybody dealt with Albert Belle because he produced. Everybody dealt with Manny because he produced. Swisher doesn't produce to that level, but do what you're supposed to do and you can run out to right field wearing a cape for all I care.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

Just google "Nick Swisher Annoying" and let the search engine take over. There are players (usually anonymous, of course) pretty much everywhere he's played who say his ways get very old.

Right, because what the New York media says and what their elitist, void of personality players say about a guy should be gospel. The fact that Swisher still produced in a clubhouse that didn't like him, and tried to suffocate his personality, tells me all I need to know. Oakland wasn't exactly a fun environment when he was there either.

He's in a place where he can be himself, with a media that ate him during his press conference, and a fan base that should come to adore him. Francona dealt with a lot of personalities in Boston and did it well. He's here with guys like Pestano and Kipnis, who are a little off the wall. They're not as animated publicly the way Swisher is, but I really think he'll be a great fit in this clubhouse.

Ultimately, like you, I don't care what he's like if he has a .365 OBP and hits 25+ HR. Everybody dealt with Albert Belle because he produced. Everybody dealt with Manny because he produced. Swisher doesn't produce to that level, but do what you're supposed to do and you can run out to right field wearing a cape for all I care.

FWiW, the players polled weren't all Yankees. There were guys that played with him elsewhere too. But end of the day, if he's an idiot and they win 95 games I'm fine. If he's an idiot on a losing team then he's just an idiot. He reminds me of an obnoxious buddy you love but are constantly ready to distance yourself from when he gets goofy.

This means very little but he has always seemed to be a decent guy. I currently live in the Parkersburg area where Nick grew up and went to school. I never heard anyone say anything bad about him. He didn't seem to have a big head about him the way some might if they had a dad that played major league ball.

peeker643 wrote:FWiW, the players polled weren't all Yankees. There were guys that played with him elsewhere too. But end of the day, if he's an idiot and they win 95 games I'm fine. If he's an idiot on a losing team then he's just an idiot. He reminds me of an obnoxious buddy you love but are constantly ready to distance yourself from when he gets goofy.

Whatever, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until I see how he meshes with this clubhouse. I don't care what other people thought of him. I care about what his 24 teammates and the handful of coaches in that clubhouse think of him.

If he becomes a problem, I trust that it'll be dealt with. I have a lot of trust in Francona in that regard.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

Guy I work with graduated with Swish, was friends with him at tOSU, and stays in pretty regular contact with him. FWIW, says he is a real solid humble guy. Goofy, jovial ... yes. A self interested d-bag, no.

"It's like dating a woman who hates you so much she will never break up with you, even if you burn down the house every single autumn." ~ Chuck Klosterman on Browns fans relationship with the Browns