Posted - 09/19/2012 : 13:33:24 Lucic just got a 3 year/18M$ contract, which makes him the highest paid forward of the bruins, and 2nd to Chara on the team. I'm not saying he's not worth it, but he will have the same salary as Eberle, Hall, and better than Seguin (5,75M$/year). Yes, his contract is shorter, but still. Is he worth as much as these proven prospect all-stars ?

"Bon point Jacques!" - Benoît Brunet

14 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)

JOSHUACANADA

Posted - 09/28/2012 : 08:42:55 I am going to disagree with Messier not being a power forward. to me, Messier defined what a power forward is. As for players having shortened careers as a power forward, for the norm, yes I would agree. But Iginla comes to mind as a power forward with an exceptional career. Ryan Smyth, Bill Guerin, Jeremy Reonick, Matts Sundin and I am sure a host of other players fall into this category of power forwards with lengthy careers.

quote:Originally posted by slozo

Shanahan had a long career as a power forward. Messier I don't really count as a power forward frankly, he just was put in that category as he aged later in his career.

And Beans is right . . . there is usually a sharp dip up and then down for power forwards. Bertuzzi's career apex was quite long actually, definitely outside of the norm.

Between Hartnell and Lucic, I'd take Hartnell - and that's not just because he happened to have his best year last season, although, we can see his peak was higher. It's because he's paired with one of the best and most dynamic players in the league in Giroux, and, I think he has a bit more skill than Lucic. Frankly, I have never seen great moves from Lucic like I have seen on occasion from Hartnell, who has a wicked shot to boot. And lastly, Lucic plays a lot more . . . uncontrolled, and I think it gives him a higher chance for injury/suspension.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

Guest2772

Posted - 09/27/2012 : 16:25:21 He does play a little bit out of controll but for the most part they were games against his hated rival Komisarek. Those two just dont like each other.

slozo

Posted - 09/24/2012 : 07:05:31 Shanahan had a long career as a power forward. Messier I don't really count as a power forward frankly, he just was put in that category as he aged later in his career.

And Beans is right . . . there is usually a sharp dip up and then down for power forwards. Bertuzzi's career apex was quite long actually, definitely outside of the norm.

Between Hartnell and Lucic, I'd take Hartnell - and that's not just because he happened to have his best year last season, although, we can see his peak was higher. It's because he's paired with one of the best and most dynamic players in the league in Giroux, and, I think he has a bit more skill than Lucic. Frankly, I have never seen great moves from Lucic like I have seen on occasion from Hartnell, who has a wicked shot to boot. And lastly, Lucic plays a lot more . . . uncontrolled, and I think it gives him a higher chance for injury/suspension.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

nuxfan

Posted - 09/23/2012 : 20:43:52

quote:Originally posted by The Duke

Well i`m certainly not going to reasearch it but Todd Bertuzzi was at one end of the extreme ladder when comparing power forwards....he had a life changing experience.

As Mark Messier was at the other end of the power forward ladder...how long was he effective ?? 15 - 20 years maybe.

he certainly had a life changing experience, but Bertuzzi's production was in decline before then. He had decent overall numbers up until the Moore incident, but his goal scoring production was down significantly (from his best years in 01/02 and 02/03), and his style of play softened dramatically after he signed that very big deal (4yr/28M) in 2003.

Bertuzzi is a great example of what Beans is referring to - for 3 years Bertuzzi was the prototypical power forward - at 250lbs an absolute beast of a player that knew how to use his size to intimidate, that was getting 45g/90+ pts a year. But after a few years of that, it starts to take its toll, and they end up slowing down some.

Messier is a great example of the rare power forward that also enjoys longevity - Gary Roberts is another, there are probably a few others. But they're rare, to be sure. The way hockey is played now, it would be difficult to play a Messier/Roberts style for 15+ years without severe injury or general weardown.

The Duke

Posted - 09/23/2012 : 19:52:54 Well i`m certainly not going to reasearch it but Todd Bertuzzi was at one end of the extreme ladder when comparing power forwards....he had a life changing experience.

As Mark Messier was at the other end of the power forward ladder...how long was he effective ?? 15 - 20 years maybe.

Alex116

Posted - 09/21/2012 : 10:46:52 Totally agree Beans. "Shelf life" for guys like this can be suspect. It's quite likely that the Bruins offered him more money than some would think he's worth because of the fact they wanted to keep the term low just in case. They can always afford to keep him 3 years from now and deal with what he's worth then!

Beans15

Posted - 09/21/2012 : 07:32:29 In my experience, power forwards have a very short lifespan and a very quick peak to a deep valley. Think of a guy like Todd Bertuzzi. He went from possible the most sought after forward in the game to a 2nd-3rd line guy in Detroit in the matter of 18 months.

I think if you did th research, most players of Lucic's size and playing style have a sharp drop off in production in their late 20's/early 30's. There may be a few exceptions to the rule, but generalized they are out of the league earlier than less physical players.

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!

The Duke

Posted - 09/20/2012 : 19:08:25 I wonder why Boston would sign Lucic to just 3 years ? A player of this size with offensive ability and can knock a goons block off to boot....these players are very, very rare.

I think any sane GM would lock him up for 6 - 8 years if he could, this just tells me that Lucic was looking for this shorter term for whatever reason.........traditionally, players of Lucic`s ability ( not knocking him, but he ain`t no Hall or Seguin ) don`t get quite this much money, More in the 3.5 to 4.5 million dollar range ( annually ).

This contract seems like it was well dictated by the Lucic team...not the Bruins management team.

nuxfan

Posted - 09/20/2012 : 17:35:37 the gold comparison was spur of the moment, I wanted to see what his weight would actually be worth at yesterday's spot price, and it turned out to be nearly his salary. I thought I'd share, its not every day that a person turns out to be truly worth their weight in gold.

Lucic vs Hartnell - its a fair question. Two things come to mind:

- Hartnell took less per year, but got more guaranteed years as a tradeoff (6 vs Lucic's 3), making his contract technically more valuable from a pure dollar amount. I also think that he took a bit of a discount to stay in PHI, given their cap situation they could hardly afford to pay much more. BOS has more cap breathing room, therefore they could afford to pay more.

- Hartnell has not been consistent, whereas Lucic has consistently gotten better each year in the NHL. Hartnell had 67 pts last year - but in each of the 2 seasons before that, he's under 50. It is quite possible that Hartnell has hit his production maximum at this point. Lucic on the other hand, has steadily increased his performance in his first 5 seasons, and now has back-to-back 60+ point seasons. There is every reason to think that Lucic will consistently hit 60 points (if not more), while there is at least some evidence to suggest that Hartnell might not match 67 again next year, or may stumble during this contract

I think both players are excellent examples of pure power forwards that make their respective lines harder to play against. I'd take either, with their current contracts.

Posted - 09/20/2012 : 14:38:43 And what about Scott Hartnell compared to Lucic ? Hartnell is very liked by his teammates, has proven he can score, and can be a beast ala Lucic...though he got a 4.75M$/year contract, which is fair enough i think.

"Bon point Jacques!" - Benoît Brunet

slozo

Posted - 09/20/2012 : 05:55:19

quote:Originally posted by nuxfan

I think he is. Lucic is good for 60-70 points a year and 30 goals, playing on a decent offensive team in BOS. Plays top line, top PP minutes. He's in the offensive production ballpark of Hall/Eberle, but would be directly comparable to a Bobby Ryan or Evander Kane.

While his point production is probably going to be less than Hall/Eberle, or even Seguin, I think its his intangibles that take him to the same level as those guys - mainly, he is a beast. There are few players in the NHL that are as intimidating as Lucic, and he is able to clear out a lot of space for linemates.

A big guy (230 lbs) with a scoring touch, is worth its weight in gold. And oddly enough, 230 pounds of gold is currently worth 5.936M, so BOS is paying him fairly.

Agree with the guest - extremely clever on the "worth his weight in gold", and funny enough, it's very very close to what he's getting paid in the NHL.

Funny stuff, and well done.

A slight overpayment, I'd say . . . and that is totally agreeing on all the intangibles he brings to the table (the guys IS a beast). We'll see how he handles the pressure - for some guys it's there, others, not so much - of being more highly paid than a couple of the other stars on that team (Bergeron, Krejci, and the up and coming Seguin). But for the Bruins, probably worth it.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

Guest4377

Posted - 09/19/2012 : 18:48:30 Very very clever Nuxfan - Lucic being worth his weight in gold. Did you think of that yourself?

I agree with your other points too. Lucic is a rare player and talent, so I don't think it's an overpay by the Bruins.

nuxfan

Posted - 09/19/2012 : 18:26:47 I think he is. Lucic is good for 60-70 points a year and 30 goals, playing on a decent offensive team in BOS. Plays top line, top PP minutes. He's in the offensive production ballpark of Hall/Eberle, but would be directly comparable to a Bobby Ryan or Evander Kane.

While his point production is probably going to be less than Hall/Eberle, or even Seguin, I think its his intangibles that take him to the same level as those guys - mainly, he is a beast. There are few players in the NHL that are as intimidating as Lucic, and he is able to clear out a lot of space for linemates.

A big guy (230 lbs) with a scoring touch, is worth its weight in gold. And oddly enough, 230 pounds of gold is currently worth 5.936M, so BOS is paying him fairly.