What seems strange to me is that if we have a doomsday scenario, what makes them think that the people who are left will be able to gain access to the vault, will know of the vault or be able to get to this "remote artic island".Ah Life! So precarious~

BigDumbWeirdo

4th February 2008 - 04:52 PM

QUOTE (tikay+Feb 4 2008, 11:35 AM)

What seems strange to me is that if we have a doomsday scenario, what makes them think that the people who are left will be able to gain access to the vault, will know of the vault or be able to get to this "remote artic island".Ah Life! So precarious~

Well, simple statistics does that.I mean, a plague which wipes out 99.9% of the human population would still leave almost 6.5 million people alive. Considering the population distribution of the world, some of those people are bound to be residents of developed nations, and all things considered, I would hazard a guess that the vast majority of those people would be citizens of developed nations. Therefore, the odds of there being no airplane or helecopter pilots or sea captains around who could retrieve those seeds is incredibly low. Plus, in the plague scenario, all forms of technology would be intact, ready to be used.Now if it were a nuclear event, then the odds of the remaining population being made up predominantly of citizens of developed nations is quite low, however there are still millions of people in the afore-mentioned careers living in undeveloped nations around the world, who would have access to at least some remaining technology, so the odds of them having the ability to retrieve the seeds are still quite good. The issue is, to my way of thinking, embodied by the following question:Will the survivors of a doomsday scenario even know about this vault? A vigorous advertising campain could accomplish that, however. Given at least 10 years between the opening of the vault and the doomsday scenario, I would think that the vast majority of the world's population could know of it's existence, if the subject of advertising it is taken seriously enough.

tikay

4th February 2008 - 05:11 PM

Great points BDW, I guess I was thinking more along the lines of the second scenario "nuclear annihilation"...or of an asteroid collision type deal. I imagine I concocted the worst case scenario, and I imagine people wandering around aimlessly looking for food in the local vicinity, not figuring out how to get to Norway and then do some major gardening. (Television has ruined my imagination.)

BigDumbWeirdo

4th February 2008 - 06:49 PM

QUOTE (tikay+Feb 4 2008, 12:11 PM)

Great points BDW, I guess I was thinking more along the lines of the second scenario "nuclear annihilation"...or of an asteroid collision type deal. I imagine I concocted the worst case scenario, and I imagine people wandering around aimlessly looking for food in the local vicinity, not figuring out how to get to Norway and then do some major gardening. (Television has ruined my imagination.)

I purposefully left out asteroid impacts because frankly, I think the odds that an asteroid would be big enough to kill most of humanity but not all of it are pretty slim. The way I see it is, odds are, if an asteroid impacts earth, either we'll be just fine without the seeds, or we'll all be dead, and have no use for them.Here's to hoping I'm wrong, eh?

tikay

4th February 2008 - 07:23 PM

Yes I think an asteroid would do us all in and things would have to begin anew without human assistance. I hear that maybe the cockroaches would survive.

Cecil P Abstract

4th February 2008 - 07:53 PM

QUOTE (tikay+Feb 4 2008, 07:23 PM)

Yes I think an asteroid would do us all in and things would have to begin anew without human assistance. I hear that maybe the cockroaches would survive.

I believe only potatoes would survive, who'd gradually evolve into sentient beings which would eventually master temporal displacement and travel back in time to execute every Human that ever ate their ancestors.

tikay

4th February 2008 - 08:01 PM

Possibly the most endearing thing you have ever said on this forum!

Gorgeous

4th February 2008 - 10:51 PM

The thing that saddens me is that the more we talk of such things as 'doomsday scenarios' or 'apocalypses', etc, the more such things are likely to happen. If nothing else, we pass these ideas on to our children.

So, it is actually so much worse, to prepare for such things! It's as if people think this is already inevitable.. Perhaps 'they' do?

For all we know, the 'sentient life' we observe on this Planet may be the only kind in existence. Sentient organic existence may be the rarest of all aspects of the Universe, and here we are, effectively on the verge of 'torching' it, mostly for the pettiest of 'reasons'...

Precarious indeed, tikay!

g.

N O M

5th February 2008 - 12:25 AM

QUOTE (Cecil P Abstract+Feb 5 2008, 08:53 AM)

I believe only potatoes would survive, who'd gradually evolve into sentient beings which would eventually master temporal displacement and travel back in time to execute every Human that ever ate their ancestors.

Oh, so that explains StevenA...

tikay

5th February 2008 - 04:51 AM

QUOTE (Gorgeous+Feb 4 2008, 03:51 PM)

The thing that saddens me is that the more we talk of such things as 'doomsday scenarios' or 'apocalypses', etc, the more such things are likely to happen. If nothing else, we pass these ideas on to our children.

So, it is actually so much worse, to prepare for such things! It's as if people think this is already inevitable.. Perhaps 'they' do?

For all we know, the 'sentient life' we observe on this Planet may be the only kind in existence. Sentient organic existence may be the rarest of all aspects of the Universe, and here we are, effectively on the verge of 'torching' it, mostly for the pettiest of 'reasons'...

Precarious indeed, tikay!

g.

I know preparing for the end of the world is a very Christian thing to do, though!

I believe we are heading into enlightened life...slowly but surely. But this is definately not reflected in the messages we recieve from movies or television.How many times a year do they have a movie that shows a really amazing (positive) futuristic type of movie...it does not happen at all. People beliefs are showing and they are really way too negative.

If they could just make the opposite sort of future movie....not necessarily a movie about space but a movie about earth, it's peoples and places being better, more healthy of mind and heart, more advanced and what we could do with advanced mental states that would be good...that would be utterly refreshing wouldn't it. I am so tired of movies set in the future, where it is all about warring or plague or evil plans...or destruction and death.

The life on this planet must be unique, It is so wonderful...I cant imagine why a jellyfish is set among the coral so perfectly, or why an owl hooting at suns setting seems so beautiful just after climbing a mountain to the top, or why ones loves eyes are the most beautiful thing in the world sometimes, how hugging a child can be such a delight, or holding the hand of your elder while they tell a story, but I would hate to see it end before we have evolved to a much richer fuller place in time...I certainly don't feel we will perish tragically in some doomsday scenario and I hate that the kids (well all of us) are fed that bull in so many movies. There could be so many better, alternative stories about our future on earth.

Cecil P Abstract

5th February 2008 - 06:26 AM

QUOTE (N O M+Feb 5 2008, 12:25 AM)

Oh, so that explains StevenA...

..... StevenAnya (distinctly nutty).

Gorgeous

5th February 2008 - 09:12 AM

QUOTE

If they could just make the opposite sort of future movie....not necessarily a movie about space but a movie about earth, it's peoples and places being better, more healthy of mind and heart, more advanced and what we could do with advanced mental states that would be good...that would be utterly refreshing wouldn't it. I am so tired of movies set in the future, where it is all about warring or plague or evil plans...or destruction and death.

Good idea!

I think this current 'art' is also a warning to ourselves. If we don't wake up, we WILL follow this stuff blindly. And it's not 'science fiction' either. Whole nations follow mad leaders into mad situations, as we have seen time and time again in the past. If we can learn to recognise some of the signs of madness before it happens, maybe we can stop ourselves (and our children) following it.

g.

tikay

5th February 2008 - 08:13 PM

Certain movies that had terrible future ideas that I really did enjoy watching because the were well written/acted were the Terminator (I, II, & now III) and The Stand by Stephen King.

One who hates the premise/argument that this is how things could actually become, on some level is certainly into deluding themselves and yet, it does not have to be the way it goes down. Even the Zeitgeist conspiracy thingy is a bit negative and shouts of a horrible ending to our world order. Things may be reversed over time, our leaders could at any moment relent and decide to go another route. I see outstanding changes coming, and not all of them are good but we have all seen things do major turn-abouts and there is no need for an exception to the rule in governing factions. I don't know exactly what the leaders have in mind for the little people but I don't like this spychip in everything and it does smell of a very Christian beast, and this is something we may not be able to avoid...I swear at times it seems there is no way out of this mass hypnotic thing they have going with the revelation's and that mess...it appears they have need of it to be the ultimate truth...if they could just drop it....let go of that as the only outcome on the planet, that would be kinda groovy.

I have a five year old who I don't want to explain this to, why we are all becoming a number (and three sons I told that I believed, that God lived in everything)...and why we are being constantly watched in a military police type takeover of what was to be a democratic system. Uncle George Washington never wanted this to come to pass, and countless other great presidents have warned of this takeover by the powers that be. All my life I have seen liberties removed from our hands or been taught that we have no rights where once we did.Even the IRS being a fraud is just so wrong. Now the homeland security act was/is the worst failure of justice yet, and we may no longer be able to keep our freedoms in America. It has apparently become one of those bad movies in a sense yes, but we may be able to come through it and if we can secure our freedoms again in time, we may be the better for having had to fight for them.

But we shouldn't have to worry about a police state atmosphere...that idea should be just plain ridiculous...and yet it stares us down. The future is in a very precarious place. And if the RF-ID is the worst thing to fear, it is pretty damn scary.I am tired of being threatened by my country...I would like to run away to a remote island sometimes and hide out, but here I am, facing the inevitable, an unsure future...which we have always lived anyway...knowing that we don't know what is true about all that, until it happens. That the Christians are really messing things up with this scenario of Armageddon, and the only thing to do about it seems to be protest the "mark" or chips or accept them, and wait for the fall of justice in governments...or the actual coming of Jesus! Because it looks like the story is being played out like clockwork...what you believe you will produce...when the consciousness shift comes, we will be ready for it, this scene needs to be changed for sure. Imagine all those Christians waiting for God, not being allowed to deny the identifying chip...what the hell is going to happen, they are being forced to lose their religion or ??? Is a real revolt coming up? Who is ready for this madness? I just want to go back to simpler times and to be lying in the sand while the waves crash softly in my head.

Dang I was not going to go there, but I've done it so ~ So be it.

I prefer my own religious ideas to the Christian one where the world becomes what it appears to be becoming, but look how much power they hold. How much sway a mass hysteria can produce. Now if we could just all get hysterical about a better outcome that would be nice. For I shall be burning in some hell if they are right I suppose and that does not suit me very well.

If they could just make the opposite sort of future movie....not necessarily a movie about space but a movie about earth, it's peoples and places being better, more healthy of mind and heart, more advanced and what we could do with advanced mental states that would be good...that would be utterly refreshing wouldn't it. I am so tired of movies set in the future, where it is all about warring or plague or evil plans...or destruction and death.

......Don't tell me you don't watch at least ONE of the Star Trek series, or haven't watched at least ONE of the movies?That's pretty much how human society is in the Star Trek franchise.The story I was writing (still am, slowly) that brought me to physorg in the first place has certain aspects of humanity who have acheived a state of cultural and social harmony. Different groups have done it to different levels, using different methods, but one group has pretty much moved beyond the concepts war, disease and crime.

If they could just make the opposite sort of future movie....not necessarily a movie about space but a movie about earth, it's peoples and places being better, more healthy of mind and heart, more advanced and what we could do with advanced mental states that would be good...that would be utterly refreshing wouldn't it. I am so tired of movies set in the future, where it is all about warring or plague or evil plans...or destruction and death.

......Don't tell me you don't watch at least ONE of the Star Trek series, or haven't watched at least ONE of the movies?That's pretty much how human society is in the Star Trek franchise.The story I was writing (still am, slowly) that brought me to physorg in the first place has certain aspects of humanity who have acheived a state of cultural and social harmony. Different groups have done it to different levels, using different methods, but one group has pretty much moved beyond the concepts war, disease and crime.

I grew up watching star trek...the constant battle of good over evil was always on, if I recall correctly. I am talking about a new world where evil is only spoken of in the past tense. A world where sickness is almost completely forgotten. Star Trek is not it...it was good in it's time...for entertainment value but it is no where near what I am talking about.No I don't believe I have seen any of the movies. I didn't feel the need since I had seen everything in the series so many times, I was bored to death with it.

Poppy product made me very, very ill...I will have to be sensible and just see if they give me an option of taking some mark or being beheaded one day....such a ludicrous scenario~ I guess I would take my beheading, who wants to live in a world like that, being under a police state mentality, waiting to be imprisioned in some underground hell (I hear they are currently building underground prisons for masses of people, the criminals of this new future.) I just know that the spirit world is far better than this existance anyway...so if I am forced to make a decision on the Christian ideal of armegeddon...I will say goodbye sweet earth, hello space matrix. Who wants to risk burning in hell! For if they have taken the measure this far, they will have to take it all the way.I am not taking a chance that they have created a real-live hell and it worked out for them. I have decided this a long time ago. How long can a beheading hurt...five or so seconds? Hello Jesus, I just wasn't sure...please forgive!!!

Years and years thinking on these things has made me a melancholy person...

(I hear they are currently building underground prisons for masses of people, the criminals of this new future.)

At least they'll now have a few million seeds to chew on while they're down there!

g.

wcelliott

7th February 2008 - 04:06 PM

Paranoia begins with a simple misconception that explains something that someone thinks is a mystery, and progresses from there into a full-blown alternate interpretation of all "known facts".

It is important for people to know how things really work and what the facts really are before they launch themselves into this delusional state, because once the alternate reality becomes the favored explanation, even disproving the mistaken "fact" that it was based on or showing that the logic upon which the delusional reality was based is faulty won't dissuade the paranoid from his conclusion that he's at the very center of his own hellish universe, the reluctant hero who knows too much to live, and must fight "them" in any way he can to save the human race from the 7' tall lizards that are secretly controlling our thoughts with spy satellites beaming confusing messages straight into the chips in our heads.

They should teach more physics and history in high school. The delusions I've run across have always been some combination of not knowing physics and not knowing history.

lengould

13th February 2008 - 04:30 PM

QUOTE (wcelliott+Feb 7 2008, 04:06 PM)

They should teach more physics and history in high school. The delusions I've run across have always been some combination of not knowing physics and not knowing history.

Perfectly worded!

And Tikay, skip the fears of Christianity being "right". It isn't, not any more than any of the other superstitions invented long ago by backward peoples to explain everyday miracles. (Why does the sun rise and set? yadda yadda.)

One can either understand the real world scientifically or through religion, but not both. Religions these days are simply methods of controlling the masses. NONE of the priesthoods actually believe them. I know, believe me. I residenced in a seminary while studying physics at U.

Gorgeous

13th February 2008 - 11:14 PM

QUOTE

One can either understand the real world scientifically or through religion, but not both.

How do you know this is true?

QUOTE (->

QUOTE

One can either understand the real world scientifically or through religion, but not both.

How do you know this is true?

It is important for people to know how things really work and what the facts really are before they launch themselves into this delusional state,

People also like to 'show' and pretend that they know 'how things really work', being afraid of peer-pressure, and other forms of societal 'ridicule'. They even delude themselves that they are 'fully aware' of many things that it is not even possible to be aware of! Most of the time, an 'approximation' is considered to be adequate 'full awareness'.

g.

tikay

14th February 2008 - 01:51 AM

QUOTE (lengould+Feb 13 2008, 09:30 AM)

Perfectly worded!

And Tikay, skip the fears of Christianity being "right". It isn't, not any more than any of the other superstitions invented long ago by backward peoples to explain everyday miracles. (Why does the sun rise and set? yadda yadda.)

One can either understand the real world scientifically or through religion, but not both. Religions these days are simply methods of controlling the masses. NONE of the priesthoods actually believe them. I know, believe me. I residenced in a seminary while studying physics at U.

I have heard this, that the ones who are teaching the message about whatever religion, have been told the truth of the matter, and don't actually believe what they are teaching. What a farce!

Talk about good actors though!

I try to never worry over these things but sometimes the way technology appears to follow what is predicted, such as this identifying RFID...it can be startling and make one wonder on occasion!

•SHEOL•

14th February 2008 - 01:58 AM

What will mankind do against the inevitability's below?

The Sun is our dwarf star, contained within our solar system, on one of the spiral arms within our Milky Way Galaxy, is about 5 billion years away from becoming red, expanding & consuming many planets including Earth.

The Canis Major dwarf Galaxy is 25,000 (light) years away from colliding with our Milky Way Galaxy.

The Andromeda Galaxy is about 3 billion (light) years away from colliding with our Milky Way Galaxy.

Leave...?

tikay

14th February 2008 - 02:06 AM

SHEOL...What makes you think man will be here when these "inevitablities" come to pass? I give us far less time to remain on this planet than any of those figures that you quoted. Maybe we were never meant to have ~forever~ Looks like we may have time to clean up our messes after all though, unless a big asteroid is heading this way right now.

•SHEOL•

14th February 2008 - 02:26 AM

QUOTE (tikay Today at 9:06 PM+)

SHEOL...What makes you think man will be here when these "inevitablities" come to pass? I give us far less time to remain on this planet than any of those figures that you quoted. Maybe we were never meant to have ~forever~ Looks like we may have time to clean up our messes after all though, unless a big asteroid is heading this way right now.

Well a big Asteroid (called Apophis) is schedule to impact Earth, read below:

2012 is sometimes claimed to be a great year of spiritual transformation (or apocalypse). Many esoteric sources interpret the completion of the thirteenth B'ak'tun cycle in the Long Count of the Maya calendar (which occurs on December 21 by the most widely held correlation) to mean there will be a major change in world order.

Accordingly, several eclectic authors claim that a major, world-changing event will take place in 2012:

The 1995 book The Mayan Prophecies linked the Maya calendar with long-period sunspot cycles.

The book 2012: Mayan Year of Destiny claims the Maya may have been instructed in their wisdom by disembodied entities from Orion and the Pleiades. Contact was maintained through shamanic rituals conducted in accordance with the movements of planets and stars. However, some Mayan priests living and working in Guatemala assert that there is no legitimacy to this theory.

The 1997 book The Bible Code claims that, according to certain algorithms of the Bible code, a meteor, asteroid or comet will collide with the Earth.

The book The Nostradamus Code speaks of a series of natural disasters caused by a comet (possibly as above) that will allow the third Antichrist to disperse his troops around the globe under the guise of aid in preparation for a possible nuclear war, although in the strictest sense it is unspecific as to nuclear war or some other natural or man caused destruction.

The book The Orion Prophecy claims that the Earth's magnetic field will reverse.

The 2005 book Beyond 2012: Catastrophe or Ecstasy by Geoff Stray reviews several theories, prophecies and predictions concerning 2012 and finds where authors have used faulty information or have bent the truth to fit their theories.

The 2006 book 2012: The Return of Quetzalcoatl by Daniel Pinchbeck discusses theories of a possible global awakening to psychic connection by the year 2012, creating a noosphere.

The 2007 book Apocalypse 2012: A Scientific Investigation into Civilization's End by Lawrence Joseph does not make any specific new predictions, but it reviews a number of 2012 predictions made by various sources, and presents arguments for the possible existence of dangerous positive feedback loops involving solar storms, Earth's magnetic field, cosmic rays, hurricanes, global warming, earthquakes, and supervolcanoes that may be on the verge of erupting. Other prophecies and apocalyptic writings and hypotheses for this year include:

Terence McKenna's numerological novelty theory suggests a point of singularity in which humankind will go through a great shift in consciousness.

Some proponents of a peak oil catastrophe place major events in 2012. Richard C. Duncan's book The Peak of World Oil Production and the Road To The Olduvai Gorge claims that the Olduvai cliff will begin and permanent blackouts will occur worldwide. Several studies predict a peak in oil production in or around 2012.

Gorgeous

14th February 2008 - 09:27 AM

QUOTE

Talk about good actors though! wink.gif

I hope that's not Tom Cruise you're talking about, tikay? A classic compensator for smallness, if ever I saw one!

Humans will have evolved into another species long before any great galactic collision, but there may be traces of whatever we are now, still mooching around - just like there are many traces of what we were, still all over the Planet.

We are still diverging now, as ever. The two likely 'mass-scenarios' are that we either cause a widespread destruction and 'return' to a more 'primitive' state (or none at all), or split into 'groups', with a more 'robotic' species pushing into the Cosmos as and when they can. It would make sense for the latter to leave some kind of 'guardianship', or 'caretaker-ship' to the former, so that they have some kind of sustainable 'base' to work from. This, indeed, seems to be already happening, in a fledgling/unconscious sort of way.

However, the spending of so many millions of dollars in a negative way does not bode well for 'advanced' thinking.

g.

tikay

14th February 2008 - 06:55 PM

QUOTE (•SHEOL•+Feb 13 2008, 07:26 PM)

....Accordingly, several eclectic authors claim that a major, world-changing event will take place in 2012....

I have been looking into 2012 for about 20 years...I cannot decide what to believe so I wait...It isn't that long from now so I am glad my waiting is closer to over!Recently I was looking into lots of youtube videos on the subject...some are incredibly interesting. Others are scary...some are fluff...I like them all.

tikay

14th February 2008 - 07:13 PM

QUOTE (Gorgeous+Feb 14 2008, 02:27 AM)

I hope that's not Tom Cruise you're talking about, tikay? A classic compensator for smallness, if ever I saw one!

No I was thinking more of those priests, preachers and televangelists who spread the good word....that the end is nigh!Ironic! These Christians are supposed to be happy that all the sinners will be bound for hell and all the good guys will be taken up to a glorious heavenly home....but the end is of an age not a world, and the age will begin anew in Aquarius. And we will be here, just like now....in my opinion.

I have been looking into 2012 for about 20 years...I cannot decide what to believe so I wait...It isn't that long from now so I am glad my waiting is closer to over!Recently I was looking into lots of youtube videos on the subject...some are incredibly interesting. Others are scary...some are fluff...I like them all.

Besides from the weird weather, depressing news, etc many people are still totally oblivious to the fact that, the world (of murder, greed, etc) is coming to an end & it's good to know that your not going to be one of the people who (unfortunately) realizes that "time is up" after the asteroid, etc burns through Earth's atmosphere before creating another deep impact.

tikay

15th February 2008 - 09:53 PM

QUOTE (•SHEOL•+Feb 14 2008, 10:47 PM)

QUOTE (tikay Yesterday at 1:55 PM+)

I have been looking into 2012 for about 20 years...I cannot decide what to believe so I wait...It isn't that long from now so I am glad my waiting is closer to over!Recently I was looking into lots of youtube videos on the subject...some are incredibly interesting. Others are scary...some are fluff...I like them all.

Besides from the weird weather, depressing news, etc many people are still totally oblivious to the fact that, the world (of murder, greed, etc) is coming to an end & it's good to know that your not going to be one of the people who (unfortunately) realizes that "time is up" after the asteroid, etc burns through Earth's atmosphere before creating another deep impact.

I never said I wouldn't get it (if the world were ending)...I said I didn't worry about it. As if I could stop it, poor, pitiful me! And I believe that LIFE GOES ON, so maybe my soul will survive the (potential) attack! THEREFORE...who cares?

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