It leads me to think of another point. How will you make your second hour session seem approachable, nonthreatening, and fun to female n00bs who are socialized, as you point out, to do "cardio kickboxing" instead of trade head-punches? How will you ensure that the n00bs are not intimidated by the sweaty athletic fighters who are left over from the first hour? How will you make it be very clear to n00bs walking into the gym that the second half of the hour is for them, that they can just jump right in, and it's okay that their skills suck compared to the dedicated first hour people?

Good question. I may decide reverse the two hours after all. I had some ideas behind why I wanted to do the harder class first, but the more I think about it, the more it seems like maybe it'd be better to do it the other way around. Something I'll have to consider.

As far as convincing cardio kickboxing chicks to be ok with the idea of getting punched in the face... I think the girls actually interested in really learning a martial art are more ok with the idea as long as they know it's going to be safe and controlled, which is why I will have beginners only spar with me at first. Also, I think since this will be all women, they'll be much less intimidated by the prospect. Women are much more comfortable with each other and also more receptive to each other when it comes to things like contact level and such.

I'm not trying to rip your idea down. Just trying to ask some helpful questions.

This is exactly what I was asking for :) The point of this thread, besides getting my ideas written down is to get as much critical feedback as possible so I can have this all well thought out before I try to get things going.

I definitely need to come up with something. I'll try and get some input from the other women I train with on what a good team name would be. I know from talking with my coach about doing my own class and running my own gym that selling it to people and actually getting people to want to show up is the hardest part. Selling myself and the idea of the team is going to take learning I think.

I definitely need to come up with something. I'll try and get some input from the other women I train with on what a good team name would be. I know from talking with my coach about doing my own class and running my own gym that selling it to people and actually getting people to want to show up is the hardest part. Selling myself and the idea of the team is going to take learning I think.

Koryu eventually learns the smugglers are using ladies wigs (!) to move their drugs, but to reach her brother she must face a gauntlet of Kakuzaki's army of martial artists - no one ever thinks of using a gun on Koryu and be done with it* - including South American Karate Champion Eva Parrish and Thai kickboxers "Amazon 7," gals who for no clear reason all dress like Wilma Flintstone.

Oh and when it comes to warm ups and stretching it actually depends a lot on the climate of the part of the country you are in, if your in a warmer climate then you will probably only need to warm up for about five minuets before stretching, but in a colder climate you'll probably wanna warm up for about ten minuets and of course seasonal changes apply longer warm ups in winter and shorter ones in summer. Also what temperature it is in your gym versus the temperature outside if its hot outside but you have the a.c booming inside then you probably wanna warm up a little longer than usual before you stretch just to be on the safe side. hope that helps and hope your team and gym will be successful God bless

First, I think your program sounds pretty kick ass in terms of intensity and instruction. It sounds like it's full of awesome and I hope it works out for you.

That said, what is your the target demographic that you're aiming for? Do you want more fighters or soccer moms?

I don't mean that to be insulting. I'd be all for joining a class like you've described, but I also enjoy getting hit so that makes me a weirdo in some social circles. I'm concerned about your ability to get numbers involved and interested enough in the program to make it viable. We have (usually) one or two girls a week pop in for our striking class, but none ever stay for anything more than the first class. We've gotten to where we just smile and try to be as nice as possible when they state how excited they are about joining the class and that they'll be back for the next session.

So how do you plan to keep people around?

A few things that I do....

I try to be involved with the newer people and not make them feel left out or marginalized by their newness...even if this slows down my training. I think it develops a sense of comraderie and gives the new people someone they can approach for help or just have a conversation with. Maybe it sounds kind of stupid to even mention this, but I know that people feel left out when they're on the side stretching/warming up and everyone else around them is having a conversation. I guess what I'm saying is that your workout sounds great, but if you plan to run it as a team, all members need to have a role.

One thing that I do here in Austin is help out the guys at the school who are training for fights. It gets me involved in the activity and I'm learning while training them and myself. With a baby on the way, my days of getting knocked around are coming to a rapid halt, but I still like the idea of being a part of the effort to have our guys win (as in their upcoming fights next weekend!!!).

I think it'd be wise to consider who you're going to be bringing in and how you'll retain them. I know some of the women who are involved in a local Crossfit program who do some pretty intense workout programs. Perhaps start there and see if you'd be able to swing anyone over to your side for an alternative to spinning.

Sorry, that was all mainly jibberish, but I'm always concerned with how to draw in and keep women in martial arts. If you can figure out a great way to do it, let me know so I can get my wife involved.

I think the obvious choice is something to do with Valkyrie's, then use "Ride of the Valkyries" as entrance music. Of course you might want a more witty team name.

"a valkyrie (from the Old Norse valkyrja, meaning "chooser of the slain"[1]) is one of a host of female figures who choose those who die in battle."

Yawn, played out and tired.

Might I suggest Andraste or Badb or my favorite since it is plural Morrígna. The first two are goddesses of war the last is the triple "goddess" embodying death, war, and divination...well that is the basic meaning tied to these three.

My two cents on an all female class: it is a VERY hard market to keep long term participants. 7th samurai had a great post illuminating the difficulties with an all female class, BUT all my experiences involved a male instructor. I dont know if that will really make a difference but it very well might. I will be extremely interested to see your marketing approach to all this, and how the structure and feel of the class develops.

Originally Posted by OnceLost

Actually, I don't do it because I don't want people to be scammed - I do it because I enjoy kicking down the doors of Lies and Deceit and then forcibly fucking Fraud with the dildo of Truth.

Originally Posted by It is Fake

I don't care if they gave it to him because, he tickles butterfly butt-holes while wearing a pink frock.

Also, I think since this will be all women, they'll be much less intimidated by the prospect. Women are much more comfortable with each other and also more receptive to each other when it comes to things like contact level and such.

Lana Stefanac's school is basically thriving because of this model. You understand all the dynamics involved so no need to bore you with it but there is a real need for women to coach women, especially in full-contact fighting.

That you are an experienced, dedicated fighter is sufficient to draw other women in. I think you don't need to worry as much about the exact structure of the classes as the "leadership" you can provide. This is a subtelty that can be lost pursuing ass-kickery. Its that small but noticable change I see if, on Tuesday morning the crossfit workout is lead by TJ but the Thursday workout is lead by Heidi.

The jokes and witty-banter is different with men/women(yeah, I got really tired of the gay jokes at BJJ, like can you guys come up with something new?) the Mars/Venus idea of how we communicate differently is relevant (thought I don't want to give the New Age idiots too much credit!) where having someone you can directly identify with really helps in your training.

I have a few female students, I tend to make them work together and I notice how different their dynamic is from the dudes. They learn better-for the most part-when they work with each other. The communication is different, the approach, the intensity (show-off) level et. al.

Last edited by theotherserge; 4/26/2009 5:14pm at .

Many things we do naturally become difficult only when we try to make them intellectual subjects. It is possible to know so much about a subject that you become totally ignorant.
-Mentat Text Two (dicto)

First, I think your program sounds pretty kick ass in terms of intensity and instruction. It sounds like it's full of awesome and I hope it works out for you.

That said, what is your the target demographic that you're aiming for? Do you want more fighters or soccer moms?

Both. My target demographic is any woman willing to put some amount of effort into learning about the sport and being part of the team, regardless of if they're looking to be a competitive athlete or just get into a fun group activity for women.

I don't mean that to be insulting. I'd be all for joining a class like you've described, but I also enjoy getting hit so that makes me a weirdo in some social circles. I'm concerned about your ability to get numbers involved and interested enough in the program to make it viable. We have (usually) one or two girls a week pop in for our striking class, but none ever stay for anything more than the first class. We've gotten to where we just smile and try to be as nice as possible when they state how excited they are about joining the class and that they'll be back for the next session.

Believe me, I've been to my fair share of gyms and done my fair share of muaythai classes and am fully aware of how few girls stick with it for more than a couple classes.

So how do you plan to keep people around?

A few things that I do....

I try to be involved with the newer people and not make them feel left out or marginalized by their newness...even if this slows down my training. I think it develops a sense of comraderie and gives the new people someone they can approach for help or just have a conversation with. Maybe it sounds kind of stupid to even mention this, but I know that people feel left out when they're on the side stretching/warming up and everyone else around them is having a conversation. I guess what I'm saying is that your workout sounds great, but if you plan to run it as a team, all members need to have a role.

I definitely know what you're talking about here and new people definitely require special attention to get them motivated about the idea of sticking with the group. I actually tried to make it a point in my curriculum descriptions that I would try and put as much personal attention towards the newer people as I could manage.

I actually do already always introduce myself to whatever new girl tries the class, make a point of working with them, helping them out and make friends. I'd do the same with this team, certainly, and since it would be supposed to be run like a team I would make sure that everyone introduced themselves to each other and really make the effort to make everyone feel like a team. I think this would be especially easy since there's pretty much an automatic camaraderie between women in combat sports (or any sports, really).

One thing that I do here in Austin is help out the guys at the school who are training for fights. It gets me involved in the activity and I'm learning while training them and myself. With a baby on the way, my days of getting knocked around are coming to a rapid halt, but I still like the idea of being a part of the effort to have our guys win (as in their upcoming fights next weekend!!!).

Being that it's a team, everyone will be involved with helping each other prepare for whatever upcoming competitions in whatever ways they can. If anyone has a fight, I will also make it a point to have everyone get to see it. For those that can't come and support their teammate in person, there will be a time set aside during the class time where everyone can watch the video together.

I think it'd be wise to consider who you're going to be bringing in and how you'll retain them. I know some of the women who are involved in a local Crossfit program who do some pretty intense workout programs. Perhaps start there and see if you'd be able to swing anyone over to your side for an alternative to spinning.

Hitting up general fitness centers and trying to get the word out to women into athletics and physical fitness activities was definitely on my list.

Sorry, that was all mainly jibberish, but I'm always concerned with how to draw in and keep women in martial arts. If you can figure out a great way to do it, let me know so I can get my wife involved.

The input is appreciated. Getting and maintaining members is probably going to be the biggest challenge, but I don't feel it's beyond my capabilities by any means. I actually do know a few women who have their own teams full of women, so hopefully I can get some input from them on how they do it.