why the fuck don't you get off this board. i don't like you, and i don't believe anybody else does. you're a pompus jackass who generalizes, and you don't even know shit about what you're trying to argue.

"coffee shop vegans"? that's the stupidest stereotype i have ever heard. when reading your threads, i struggle in believing that you are actually trying to be serious.

grow some brains.

oh, and i responded negatively to your thread, and i'm not a vegan. bitch.

Fri Jun 27, 2003 1:22 am

Machiavel

Joined: 30 Oct 2002
Posts: 766

The_Human wrote:

"To piss off Texans. And you."

Assuming all Texans are cattle hearders who eat huge steaks right??

Awwww Damn is coming for you!!!!

Unless of course she takes that in a joking context and doesnt consider it a 'broad generalization'[which joking or not, it still is].

'hmm...self-fulfilling prophecy' anyone???

Wait wait, are you saying that you were joking posting this now? is that what you are admiting? If you couldnt tell your origonal post, and the post you quoted were in completely different contexts. And its pretty easy to tell he was joking, as it was easy to tell you werent.

Fri Jun 27, 2003 1:45 am

robbndahood

Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 127
Location: Santa Cruz, CA

The_Human wrote:

"To piss off Texans. And you."

Assuming all Texans are cattle hearders who eat huge steaks right??

Awwww Damn is coming for you!!!!

Unless of course she takes that in a joking context and doesnt consider it a 'broad generalization'[which joking or not, it still is].

'hmm...self-fulfilling prophecy' anyone???

So what is it you're trying to prove exactly? That Vegans/Vegetarians who don't have a reason that meets your standards are automatically thrown into the bandwagon-veggie category?

You're retarded. I mean that in the most un-jokingly way possible. Dick.

Fri Jun 27, 2003 2:02 am

mortalthoughtsLAME KID

Joined: 12 Dec 2002
Posts: 11616
Location: MI

why should anyone have to justify anything they do beyond 'personal choice'

i dont get it

who gives 2 flying fucks about the reasons people make the choices they do

Fri Jun 27, 2003 2:04 am

mortalthoughtsLAME KID

Joined: 12 Dec 2002
Posts: 11616
Location: MI

exspecially about something as trival as this

Fri Jun 27, 2003 2:05 am

imatopos

Joined: 09 Jul 2002
Posts: 91

What a mess

Well, I read this entire thread, and won't try to respond to the various (non)arguments against veganism, or the snide remarks. If you genuinely want to know why I and some other folks like me are vegan, it's quite simple. Once you begin to learn about the living conditions of most animals within the dairy business (and I'm talking about factory farms, not mom and pop farms--and most of us get our food from the former), you find out that they are, on the whole, treated horribly. Most live miserable lives, filled with pain and discomfort, and have to do so simply because human beings want to eat their byproducts in massive amounts. For those people who are vegan for non-ethical reasons, they are typically concerned about health or ecological factors.

As for veganism being a trend, I really don't think it is much of a trend. First of all, to be a serious vegan, it requires a lot of sacrifices. It's a pain in the ass to find food to eat at most restaurants, you have to read labels on everything you eat, etc. If someone's doing it simply to be trendy, I doubt they could do it for very long. I know many, many people who want to be vegan for ethical reasons, but find it so difficult to maintain that they give up after a few weeks. I would imagine a person doing it to be trendy would have a hard time lasting half that long (but who knows? trends make people do stranger things . . .)

I've been a vegan for thirteen years now, so it's definitely not a trend for me. As for arguments for veganism, don't get me started! There are many cogent philosophical arguments in favor of veganism. In fact, the arguments can be found in abundance. What's hard to find is non-question-begging arguments in favor of eating meat and dairy products. The interesting thing would be for you to give a good argument as to why one ought to eat meat or dairy (and it would have to be something besides "I like the taste of it" or "because I can"--the end). So, instead of asking vegans to defend a practice that avoids harming animals (why anyone would want a defense for avoiding harm is beyond me), try to defend a practice of harming animals. That's where the philosophical question lies, I think.

Fri Jun 27, 2003 7:41 am

Reggie

Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 5766
Location: Queens, NYC

Re: keep digging that hole

The_Human wrote: Pretty much, because those are the ones who seem to want to argue with me rather than 'enlighten' me with their reasons for being vegan.

Okay, read this slowly:

THE VERY REASON THAT PEOPLE ARE TAKING YOU TO TASK OVER YOUR QUESTION IS BECAUSE YOU WANT TO PUT "ENLIGHTEN" IN QUOTES.

YOU HAVE A CONDESCENDING DEMEANOR THAT MAKES IT DIFFICULT TO ESTABLISH A REAL DIALOGUE. ON TOP OF THAT, YOU PLAY YOURSELF WITH HYPOCRITICAL REMARKS IN A REGULAR BASIS.

IF YOU ACTED LIKE A SMARTY-PANTS, BUT ACTUALLY WERE A SMARTY-PANTS, THAT WOULD BE ONE THING. BUT YOU COME OFF AS A SMART-MOUTHED PUNK.

That's all. It amazes me that someone who prides himself of existential thought can't grasp this simple concept. But I guess none of us see ourselves the way we are.

I don't want you to leave, though. I can just ignore your posts more.

PS: Shane eats sushi, he's not a vegan.

Fri Jun 27, 2003 7:50 am

FoJaR

Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Posts: 1534
Location: VA.

i like meat. i also like golden grahms. food is food. why dont some people like tomatoes? i dont understand? oh wait, maybe it's just something personal, not something to question them on. maybe they dont like the taste. maybe they were traumatized by the show "attack of the killer tomatoes" as a child. maybe they think that tomatoes are caused undue pain by the evils of mass production. WHO CARES. point being: eat what you like, dont criticize others on what they eat, they have their reasons. thread over.

"and on the 5th page, FoJaR said 'let there be silence'. and there was silence on the board, for all feared the swift and terrible retribution of the all powerful FoJaR..."
-the bible according to FoJaR, chapter 6, verse 9

Fri Jun 27, 2003 11:54 am

Reggie

Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 5766
Location: Queens, NYC

For the record, it's okay by me if people want to ask questions about and discuss veganism, or anything else. It's the way you come at people, coming off with loaded questions and a smarmy attitude is going to get the big "FUCK OFF" from Reggie, regardless of the subject.

I'm the only one allowed to be smarmy here.

Even if he said, "I don't believe that veganism is the way to go, and most vegans I have met I do not like, Can anyone explain veganism rationally to me?" it would be more palatable.

Fri Jun 27, 2003 12:24 pm

The_Human

Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693

Let me end by saying this:

Im not sorry for voicing my opinion, however to those I offended I am.

I can only speak on what I have been exposed to and obviously its different than the some of you.

Im glad to hear the critisism to my ideas because that is how people learn, from the input of others.

I have a tendency to think of the world in groups. Its a major flaw in the psychology of my thinking. Ive done this my whole life but just in the last couple of years I have actually recognized this.

To be honest, about trends, yes I do hate them. I may have a serious complex about trends. I hate hopping on them, no matter what it is, and I hate being classified to belonging to a particular trend. And apparently others hate it as well. Not to say that I dont follow trends, naturally everyone does, but its puts the fear of the world into me when a person actually understands some of my personal trends and critisizes them. Of course there are things I am true to the core towards, such as hip hop[I like to not think of this as a trend], and writing[which some may have read my "I Am Here To Please You" jargon that was written while half asleep at work with my boss watching over my shoulder while thinking of this poor girl who will not leave me no matter what I do to her. It was also written terribly and it was a letter to self, using poor language, that I decided to post.] I will stand by those without fail, in the face of fear, but other thingsI have a VERY hard time admitting that I commit too.

No excuse, please dont take it that way, but I have ran out of medication this past week, and I have been volatile to no end. May have something to do with this all. Can you people not tell Im scizophrenic??[not really, I think]

I did learn this though; PEOPLE HATE BEING CLASSIFIED INTO GROUPS. You tend to lose your individuality when you are classified with others and a persons individuality is very personal and very important to them[obviously].

I think there are a lot of interesting people on this board that I could learn a lot from and that I NEED to learn a lot from.

So take this for what its worth, laugh at me, call me a bitch, tell me Im crazy, whatever but its as honest as I can be. I usually respond pretty well to pure honesty so I hope the rest of you do as well.

No more asinine threads for me to study and attempt to group the world by. I promise.

I also owe a personal apology to awwww damn, you get my respect by telling me whats up and I apologize for calling you out in a few threads.

The End.

Fri Jun 27, 2003 12:26 pm

MessiahCarey

Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10924

Re: keep digging that hole

Reggie wrote: PS: Shane eats sushi, he's not a vegan.

This is true. And technically not even a vegetarian.

Although 99% of the time I'm not eating meat, and I rarely ever purchase it at all, so I effectively call myself a "vegetarian" so people know I probably don't want meat. It's more of a practical thing.

Veganism is the way to go, I just lack the willpower at this point in my life.

- Shane

Fri Jun 27, 2003 12:49 pm

Reggie

Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 5766
Location: Queens, NYC

Re: keep digging that hole

MessiahCarey wrote:

Reggie wrote: PS: Shane eats sushi, he's not a vegan.

This is true. And technically not even a vegetarian.

Although 99% of the time I'm not eating meat, and I rarely ever purchase it at all, so I effectively call myself a "vegetarian" so people know I probably don't want meat. It's more of a practical thing.

Veganism is the way to go, I just lack the willpower at this point in my life.

- Shane

Word, I'm the same way. I eat meat maybe once a week, and when I do, it's usually super-processed meat with so much filler that you can barely tell what animal it came from (i.e. bologna, a vice of mine.) It's not a matter of principle, it's just that most meat really hurts my stomach. Sometimes I'll have a piece of chicken if it's cooked right.

I eat a lot of breakfast cereal.

Fri Jun 27, 2003 12:56 pm

FoJaR

Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Posts: 1534
Location: VA.

i need my meat proteins. i have the ADHD. without proper nutrition and medications i get crazy. yeah, thats right, if you want proof just go back a ways to my threads about M&Ms that should never have existed. mcdonalds food makes me sick about one time in four that i go there. KFC taco bell is heaven, and fishies taste good.

Fri Jun 27, 2003 1:04 pm

mortalthoughtsLAME KID

Joined: 12 Dec 2002
Posts: 11616
Location: MI

ha ha durrrrrrrr nevermind

Fri Jun 27, 2003 1:07 pm

tinkleDRINKER

Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 788

i became i vegetarian, because i thought it was selfish to end life strictly for, or what i thought was, pleasure. i occured to me when i was 15 that, people did not require meat to survive, therefore the only reason to eat it was out of desire - i quit eating meat a few days after this revalation. i didn't jump into becoming a vegan because i was ignorant to the type of diet that was required to live a healthy life - if i were to become a vegan it would be to eliminate the suffering of animals. i think that living without making others suffer is a high virtue.
anyway, i went to school and studied nutrition (BS) and never became a vegan because i felt that it would ruin the quality of MY life - i.e. i think it is near immpossible to live healthly on that diet. i am now 28 and i was vegatarian up until a year and half ago. i gave it up due to severe malnutrition - and i ate right - nutrition was my vocation for chrissake. all that i have to say is i feel better as a meat eater, i don't get sick half as much, no longer get nose bleeds, my hair is thicker, my fingernails no longer have huge dents in them, and i have far more overall energy. If anyone on this board is a veg or vegan - you would do yourself credit to watch your health - while i didn't see any short effects to my diet, in the long run it caught up with me.