China Roster Announced

A few housekeeing things before we get to the headline information.

I’m sure many of you read Tony Jackson’s blog on the Daily News website, which is a good source for a beat writer’s perspective on day-to-day life in the bigs. Yesterday, he kindly pointed out that the new 2008 Information Guide has been published and is available for our media to help them cover the team (it will also be for sale this year at the Top of the Park Gift Shop and the Dodgers Clubhouse Shop at Universal CityWalk).

Tony mentioned the images on the cover, as well as the inclusion of Chan Ho Park, so I figured I’d explain the reasoning. As part of the 50th anniversary celebration this year, we’ll be highlighting a number of things, including the organization’s role historically in the pioneering of baseball in America and around the world. Whether it’s Jackie Robinson, Sandy Koufax, Fernando Valenzuela, Hideo Nomo, or Chan Ho Park the Dodgers have a history of being the first, or among the first, to reach various races, religions, and countries in spreading the game of baseball. Hence the reason why Chan Ho Park, the first Korean in Major League history and the team’s last 18-game winner, is on the cover with so many Dodger legends.

And while we’re on the subject of spreading the game internationally, we are announcing our roster for the two-game series in China and here it is:

Overall, it’s a good group of guys that includes four players with more than 10 years of big league service, in addition to some of our most talented younger players who have recently reached the big leagues. We were able to also make sure that the team in Vero Beach is filled with well known players so that the games there continue to be exciting for many reasons, not the least of which are Tommy Lasorda’s role as manager of that team.

Speaking of which, Tommy posted a blog today about his trip to see the former President Bush.

And finally, here’s the lineup for today’s game against the Orioles, with John "T-Bone" Shelby set to throw out the ceremonial first pitch.

ed – I believe its that many of us who have been around since the glory days are tired of seeing the Ds bring in old cows that other GMs have put out to pasture, while shooting our own young bucks that are coming up.

Not all the young guys make it – the Jacksons, Guzmans, and Tiffanys, but the Konerkos and Martinez’ do, and generally wind up on somebody elses roster so that the Loaizas and Gonzos can feed on the Dodger green.

Younger, better and cheaper is preferable to older, lesser and more expensive. Younger also leads to more continuity for a number of years, rather than a mercinary 2 or 3. And the current crop of youngs guys like the D’s have come along once in a blue moon – why do you think all the other GMs covet these guys and are more than willing to give up their veterans to get them?

Think we all want the Ds to win. Its not a question of blind loyalty – that’s for lemings, but the frustration level is mounting for those of us who want to watch the bucks run around and shoot the cows for a change.

Enchanted, you have echoed my feelings exactly on the 20 years of turning one of the most respected and storied franchises in sports into a mediocre entity. What they have been doing for the last 20 years has not been working. It is time to take a different approach.

This Inge thing is truely ridiculous. C’mon LaRoche and Nomar. I don’t care which one wins the position. Ethier one will put up #’s as good as Inge and we don’t have to give up anything for them. Geez.

Inge – another cow for the roster. I think its just another rumor. You’ve got the “veteran” in Nomore if you prefer him to LR, why would you need Inge? Just would make no sense at all, especially this early in the spring before you’ve even gotten a decent look at the two guys you’ve got. You’ve also brought the youth movement this far, why go backwards now?

Hey if Pierre can get his OBP above .360 into the realm of a decent leadoff hitter, most of our malcontent with him will disappear. He would be acceptable. With his below average defense, he needs to have an above average OBP to help the team. There are about 24-25 weeks in the regular season and if Pierre could just get 2 walks per week, his OBP would improve. He gets about one per week now, so one more a week and he is above .350.

Advertisement: Great LF (batting 1.000 today) for trade or sale. Low mileage, reliable. Swift of foot, high Avg. Trade for anything of value or cash and carry. Well mannered. You won’t regret it– long term contract in place, so no need to negotiate for four years!

You know, playing left field is very different. The ball hooks and he won’t be able to handle it. He gets terrible reads and its embarassing. My 86-year old mother could get better reads. I do have to admit that he’s quicker than she is, but she will go straight to the ball… after it gets by her. And once she gets to the ball, boy howdy can she throw the runner out at third!

So far JP is having a great day. He has probably been reading the player ratings and blogs and wants to shut us up. If he does I will be the first to acquiesce. I can’t believe Martinez, Martin, and Kent all struck out. Martinez needed to advance the runner at any cost and give Martin a sacrifice shot. We don’t get alot of productive outs.

another question
I live in Madras Oregon, so a nature question is were the Dodger’s interested in drafting Jacoby Ellsbury in 2005 if he would have feel to you? Had the Dodger’s had talks with him at all?

Top 5: Orioles Batting: Matt Riley Pitching: Xavier Paul in center, Terry Tiffee at third, Furcal left with tightness in his hamstrings, nothing serious, it’s spring so they took him out:
Jones homers to deep right center, 2-1 Orioles

scott…that video is truly frightening. The only thing I kept thinking to myself was thank heavens Gibby showed up when he did, albeit two years later. For the record…Dodgers finished 23 games behind Astros in 1986. That video perhaps sheds light as to why!!!

Give Pierre the start over Ethier and bat him second when Martin needs a day off with the catcher dropping to the #8 spot, and LaRoche moving to #7. All the other starters should start virtually every day.

I like this lineup because it best utilizes the talents of each player.

Furcal — Good OBP, Good Doubles Power, Speed

Martin — A good balance of BA, Power, and Speed, and the discipline to be a #2 hitter

Kemp — The best combination on the team of BA, Power, and Speed

Jones — Excellent power, Some speed

Loney — Excellent BA/OBP, Moderate Power, Little Speed

Kent — Pretty Good BA, Some Power. Anything lower than sixth in this lineup will cause Kent to develop an attitude problem. Inasmuch as he’s a future Hall-of-Famer, and currently about Ethier’s equal, let him bat sixth.

Ethier — Solid BA, Some Power.

LaRoche — Excellent Plate Discipline/OBP, BA and Power To Be Determined

Your probably the only one so far that agrees with me that Kemp should bat third. My reasoning is, Jones protects him in the line-up and he has speed to stay out of double plays, plus power to boot. Perfect 3-man. Loney in the 5 spot is good – keeps from stringing the three righties together. Kent should hit 6, but definately not clean-up like Torre has him doing right now.

Nice to see even Gurnick thinks the Inge trade is preposterous. Might be Ned’s kinda guy though – can’t hit and has three more years left on his contract at $17m+. Detroit loved him so much they got Cabrera to play 3B.

Note that the 1988 team didn’t have ANYONE with a SLG of .500. Gibson had the highest SLG at .483 and 76 RBI. Marshall led the team with 82 RBI , but only a SLG of .445, second among the starters.

I think that points out that pitching wins games and WS at Dodger Stadium. Hershiser pitched 267 innings at 2.26 ERA, something we may never see again. The game has changed. With Saito, Broxton, Beimel, Proctor, and the rest of the pen, the Ds could piece together a great staff in a new way. The starters have the capability to dominate.

We don’t necessarily need the best hitting team, like we had in 1977. It sure would be nice, but not necessary to going deep in the playoffs. Incidentally, Gibson led the team in scoring with 106 runs, 31 SB, and .377 OBP in 1988. Sax had 70 runs, 42 SB, and an OBP of .325. Shelby had 65 runs, 16 SB, and .320 OBP. Marshall scored 63 runs, with a .314 OBP. That was it. They were the leaders in scoring.

I bet Gibson would have appreciated an OF hitting in front of him with 96 runs, 64 SB, and .331 OBP. Remember, 1988 was the last Dodger team to win the WS. So much for conventional wisdom about hitting and OBP. Perhaps we should appreciate Kent, Pierre, Kemp, Loney, Martin, Furcal, and now Jones, who are all better than any of the 1988 team, save Gibson. Nomar vs. LaRoche at third comes back into perspective, too (who could forget Hamilton and Woodson– I have). The starting SS in 1988 had an avg. of .199 and a SLG of .253– his replacement had an avg. of .249. The games are won one at a time, by scrapping for every run, offensively and defensively.

Orel was unconscious in 1988. Rather, the hitters he faced were rendered unconscious. 59 scoreless innings coming down the stretch to end the season. That is 6 straight shutouts plus. And he went 10 innings in the final game to break Big D’s record. With Drysdale’s support and blessing. If I recall, Don implored him to get back out there and go for the record as Orel was considering leaving after the 9th with 58 scoreless. Big D had 58 2/3. Class acts both of them.
Better than average defense and Belcher probably had his best season. Gutsy team. I also loved Hatcher and the stuntmen. That team played fundamentally sound baseball and didn’t beat themselves. Something we need to emulate now.

That Pearlman article at ESPN was a jaw-dropper for me. maybe he had a bad day or something, but he’s always seemed like a fan-friendly guy to me since he’s been with the Dodgers.

knoffbrock- I didn’t think many would see the pics since it was a late night post before gameday. But I know I thought it was odd to see a post-1939 Brooklyn jersey that was drastically different than the jerseys the Dodgers wear today. the Uniwatch blog also had pics of Cardinals and Braves satin jerseys, but I can’t find them now.

one more thing: It’s taken me a while to get used to Joe Torre in Dodger Blue, but looking at the 6th picture in Jon SooHoo’s 3-3-08 gallery, he looks like he’s already comfortable in his new job. Thanks again to Jon SooHoo for keeping us connected with his daily galleries.

I would like to see LaRoche and Ethier win the starting positions but I am also rooting for Pierre and Nomar. If Pierre and Nomar have great seasons and are getting the job done, I will have no qualm with them starting. Also, I believe if they are performing well, Ned will not make a panic trade for the likes of Inge, etc….
Ethier and LaRoche will be available if they are not getting it done. We need Kuo to stay healthy and solidify that 5th starter spot. That will also avert another Ned panic move.

You can easily see how much smarter Joe is. There is no where else you can bat Pierre but leadoff. I think that Abreu should go to China so Joe can keep an eye on him. He better hurry up and get better, because it looks like DY has the inside track. Maybe if he’s lucky DY may take 3rd and leave 2nd up for grabs next year. Maybe not everbody agrees with me but I hope they re-sign Furcal. No reason to open up another spot. Having 3rd unoccupied is enough already. Next year second will probably be vacant. If we lose both these vets I hope to heck we solve the 3rd base delimer before this year ends. I know we have plenty of talent but I hope we make it one base at a time. I think it’s Ethier vs Kemp since it looks like JP has gotten the “stamp of approval”

Torre can say whatever he wants about JP, Ive got a whole season worth of play—not just the stats , but seeing him play—to tell me he isn’t any good. And at his age, he isn’t suddenly getting any better. If the D’s want to shoot themselves in the foot by going with him, guess theres nothing more to say. And yeah, there is somewhere else he can bat–9th. If you want to think about it like this, the “leadoff” hitters are still back to back, but JP has far fewer AB’s that way, which really needs to happen.

Nobody knows what will happen thruout the course of the season, but right now it looks like Joe is satisfied with him. I hope Torre doesn’t lean on the consecutive game streak and gives Ethier a chance to show himself in left but it seems to me that he will be sharing time with Kemp. On a positive note, Joe likes to give his players rest. He had the advantage of the DH over here. Maybe he will use the score of games to dictate how he moves the players around. I know the double switch will be an asset.

Orel was great in 1988, but won *only* 23 games. It is a team sport and they played as a team, picking each other up as the need arose. They were good at situational hitting, but they didn’t score much. Gibson, the best hitter, had 1 AB in the WS. They took the loss of Gibson in stride and just won.

I loved that with 94 wins, they knocked off the awesome A’s, who had 104 wins. They did it without Gibson, and they did it fearlessly. Of course, it helped that Hershiser won 2 WS complete games. But teammates had to win two other games, and they did. Belcher gives up a Granny to Canseco in Game 1 and comes back to win game 4. Hatcher hits HR #2 of his season in game 1 and #3 of his season in game 5.

I think the best we can hope for is that Pierre can get his OBP above .350 this year. I know it is a long shot but that is really the only way that he becomes a sensible option to lead off and play left. I think the writing is on the wall and he will be given the leftfield starting position. If his OBP is .350 or higher it will be tolerable. It really needs to be .360 or higher to make it acceptable given his weak defense.

Guys Torre already pretty much said Martin Jones and Kent will be 345 in some order, not that I agree with that… IMO his lineups won’t be any better than Grady’s, except at the end of the year Grady gave up and finally put the right lineup out.

Pierre will have to get on base to be worth anything to this team. If his OBP is down that will be his downfall. He has to use his speed on the basepaths. This is what Colletti & Torre love about him. He also must use his speed to get on base. Laying down bunts has to be something he can do well. I think he doesn’t walk enough because pitchers have no fear of him making contact because of his warning track power. They’ll always be around the plate. As far as his fielding, aside from his weak arm he’s a good outfielder because even if he doesn’t get a good jump on the ball, his speed makes up for it. Like I always say he would be better off as an infielder, unfortunately he plays with his glove on his right hand.

Because the 3-4-5 slots are so much the heart and soul of a line-up, I’d rather Martin not be there, given his inevitable weekly rests and the subsequent disruption it might cause to the flow of the order. Someone blogged a couple days ago suggesting Pierre be given Martin’s spot once a week. Works for me!

The ’88 Dodgers won because of pitching. They got an unexpected career year out of Tim Leary (2.91 ERA, 1.124 WHIP – only one other year did he have an ERA in the 3s or better and his next lowest WHIP was in the 1.3s), studly ROY pitching from Belcher, deadline acquisition John Tudor had a 2.41 ERA down the stretch with LA winning 7 of his 10 starts, and the bullpen was extremely effective, LA relief innings: 2.35 ERA.

They put up a 3.32 ERA against the Mets and a 2.03 (!) against the A’s.

Great pitching allows you to get away with scraptastic offenses, but it leaves a very small margin of error. Just look at the next year. Every pitcher that started a game, except John Wetteland, had an ERA of 3.43 or better, with Orel, Belcher and Mike Morgan in the 2s. Dodger relief ERA was 2.75 – pretty darn good. Team finished under .500.

Also, Dodger Stadium was still a pitcher’s park in those days, but it is a slight hitter’s park now, with seats occupying what used to be large areas of foul territory.

“I think he doesn’t walk enough because pitchers have no fear of him making contact because of his warning track power.”
Posted by: pierreseastmeetswest@yahoo.com | March 3, 2008 08:34 PM

But Joe P., pitchers didn’t fear Brett Butler’s minimal power either and he walked a lot. I think the problem is JP doesn’t know how to wait on pitches long enough to foul off the pitcher’s pitches like Butler did; instead, JP rolls those over as weak right-side grounders or pops them up.

You are right that he needs to use his speed. Another way to do that is to hit more the other way; he can beat out a lot more grounders toward the SS side than the 2B side. His speed is a great, but underutilized thing, because he hit to optimize it and doesn’t get on base enought.

Batting order importance is overrated, but – and I’m a big Kemp fan – I would not bat Kemp third. He walks so little, which makes his OBP heavily batting average dependent. Even though his career BA is .312, his OBP is .344, which, IMO, is not high enough for a 3 hitter.

Old Man Kent has had a .375 or better OBP the last three seasons, with power. He’s slow as molasses in January, but I’m ok with him #3, at least until he can’t hit anymore.

I think I’d go with:

Furcal

Martin

Kent

Jones

Loney

Kemp

Ethier

LaRoche

Pitcher

If forced to play Pierre instead of Ethier, I bat him 9th, a la Tony LaRussa, and move LaRoche and the pitcher up one spot.

Going into that ninth they seriously thought they were pretty much winning the WS right there. eck comin in who was gagne before roids, goin up 1-0 on the road..The dodgers a big underdog….So they very much did it with Gibson but as you say a total team effort. Yeah that was a scrappy team. Orel was amazing. Gibby was amazing..in the playoffs for me it was Scoccia vs Doc Gooden (who was just filthy at the time) and and he goes yard in like the 8th inning…that was almost as much of a suprise and back breaker.

Hatcher in 88 playoff (40ab).300/.364/.525

And yeah honestly, Juan Pierre would be better for that team than this team, absolutely. Pierre is great if you plan not to have that good of an offense or more likely understand you don’t. The dodger offense will again be iffy until we have a proven .300/.400/500 guy in the center of our order. Loney, Kemp and LaRoach are those guys soon..Kent and to lesser extend Jones were…but the jury is out who will be this year. I wish they would throw them in there like this..this is my lineup if I could

Furcal

martin

Loney

Kemp

Kent

Jones

Ethier

LaRoche

Torre this year will give Pierre the opportunity and he is better for leadoff than 2nd as Pierresweet points out. But I don’t think Joe will stand for a low OBP. I really don’t. We will see it seems…

Joe thinks it’s 2003 I guess for Juan. And yeah Butler could have 15 pitch AB’s like once a game it seemed. Do you guys ever recall Pierre doing that…so yeah i wish he would do that, foul balls off, bunt etc ..The problem is for him is that you pitch to contact with him. You want him to hit it hard and I am not insulting him. He needs choppers in the infield or fly balls that aren’t hit right that fall and grounders between 3b/ss but again not trying to be neg but it seems he dosen’t do those things. It’s either. a pretty quick ground ball thru the right side. or a ground ball out to ss/2b or short fly to lf. like take some pitches, make him work..yeah i loved watching Butler..Pierre not so much(obviously)

Tomorrow’s early split squad road game against the Nationals will be streamed on MLB.TV starting at 10 a.m. I will have play by play of the night cap home split squad game against the Nationals at 4 p.m. But, who knows I worked quite well balancing my paper while doing the play by play, so I may do both games because I’ll be in front of my computer anyway working again. We’ll see for now just the night cap.

So what your saying old fogey is if Pierre would be more selective at the plate he would see more balls and there is a possibility that he would walk more often. You know you could say that about the rest of the batting order. If they walked more often they’d score more runs. Pitchers would even be forced to pitch to them. Maybe that would eliminated those long scoreless droughts.

Well, it is obvious that we need to take more pitches and learn how to work the count. Even when you make an out the pitcher has to work harder and show all his pitches. When it is the starting pitcher it can often mean the difference between getting in a rythm and going 6 to 7 innings or not finding that groove and only going 5. Usually, a teams middle relief is a very weak spot. Plus, getting that starter out of there early puts tremendous pressure on the bullpen, especially in Aug, Sept from the cumulative effect and overwork. Look what happened to us last year in Aug/Sept because our starters could not consistantly get us into the 6th or 7th inning. Our bullpen wore out.

A lot of things a team’s lineup has to do is exactly what the Rockies, D’Backs & Padres were doing at the end of last year’s run. Sometimes I couldn’t help but admire them. Many say the pitching was doing it but I didn’t think so.

all in all doesnt matter dodgers own with pierre/laroche in the lineup or not. the dodgers dont really have any holes on offense. having to decide between peirre and ethier is an advantage!!!!! a lot of teams dont have the luxrury that the dodgers have right now.

My hypocrisy knows no bounds – I’m going to talk about my thoughts on Pierre and Torre. (But just this once – I think.)

Although most of us agree that Ethier should be our LF starter, if Torre chooses Pierre for whatever reason, I see one upgrade already over Grady’s lineups. I always thought Little should have swapped Furcal and Pierre, having Pierre bat first as he seems to hit better with no one on. It seems that Torre will do that, at least. It will provide more opportunities for Pierre to steal, as Furcal is more patient behind him; and it will provide many more opportunities for Pierre to score from first, as Furcal will hit many more gappers than will Pierre.

Little always talked about how he liked the possibility of two speedsters “wreaking havoc” on the defense, but I thought that he had the two speedsters completely backwards in the lineup. It is POSSIBLE that even if JP only puts up 2007-type numbers, he will be more effective in the #1 hole where he’s used to playing, and Furcal having a 2006-type season will probably help JP score 100+.

Sam, I’m going to differ with you on the no holes in the line-up theory…

JP at the top of our line-up is an out machine. Sure he may get close to 200 hits, but look at how many plate appearences it takes him to get them. Plus, from his 500 outs, a huge majority of them are unproductive. He also can’t work deep into a count to make the pitcher work a little, and for a little guy with speed, he won’t use his god given ability and hit to the left side, but rather pulls it to hit weak grounders and soft pop-ups.

Nomar we don’t have to worry as much about because come mid-May when he goes on the DL for the first time, LR will get to play. In the meantime though, he’s a first pitch hack that makes Kent look like the world’s most patient hitter. What was he the other day 3 ABs and saw 4 pitches? There’s a lot of hackers in addition to Nomar, so It won’t be a problem for most decent starters to go deep into the game.

If Torre insists on batting Kemp 8th, he’s also insuring his failure and wasting his ability. With the pitcher batting behind him, its doubtful he’ll ever see much to hit, and he doesn’t have the experience and plate discipline to lay-off bad pitches trying to get something to hit.

Not trying to be negative, just realistic. Only thing that’s going to keep us in games with the current alignment is pitching, and that goes south too if one of the top 4 SPs goes down ala Schmidt, or god forbid anything happens to Brox or Saito.

Defense – no range at second and third, and no arm in left.

Again, not trying to be the prophet of doom, just not seeing a line-up that makes it past 3rd or 4th in the west.

The old lady enjoys a quiet life with her family.We just caught the plane.Keep in Touch.I don’t doubt that he will help me.I think so.Many young girls dream of being a fashion model.Many young girls dream of being a fashion model.It’s too good to be true!It’s up to you.Who but Jack would do such a thing?

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