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Back in 2016, Codex community member Fairfax began a correspondence with RPG writer extraordinaire Chris Avellone, for the purpose of interviewing him about some questions that many of us had at the time about his departure from Obsidian, his work on Pillars of Eternity, and related topics. For various reasons this correspondence ended up lasting months and years, and in fact it continues to the present day. The lengthy interview I present today is only the first part of a larger piece that we hope to publish in its entirety someday. Even though some of the questions now feel a tad outdated, there are still some juicy new details to be gleaned here. For example:

Eric Fenstermaker said Durance and the GM had a lot of "creative energy and research" invested in them. You seem to rely on getting approval every step of the way, which makes me wonder how that happened. Was there a miscommunication on the approval of your drafts and/or outline? And would you agree that the content had to be cut, or would you have tried to save it if you were at the helm? (Including Ulysses in FNV, not just PoE).

Companion Design - not always. Usually, it's paragraph, page, then dialogue. In Durance and Grieving Mother's case - and this I can say - the Creative Lead told me after my departure that the Project Lead had interfered but didn't specify the reasons. I don't even know what the reasons were (although I couldn't tell if I did, to be fair). In short, the Creative Lead said he should have handled the whole matter differently and didn't, regretted it, and apologized for it.

It doesn't matter - what's done is done - cuts don't bother me (they rarely do, if you're a writer in the industry and aren’t willing to make cuts, you probably won't be a game writer for long), but how it was handled overall was an example of how upper management can get tangled up and despite any problems, perceived or otherwise, you can be the last one to know, which makes the whole situation more fucked up than if you'd gotten a direct critique, fixed everything that was requested, and then it's put to bed. It's not a huge deal unless you make it one.

Fenstermaker specified the reasons in his Codex interview:

The cuts came for length. The three limiting factors were time to implement, art resources for the dream sequences, and VO budget. There was a target length we had set upfront for all companions, and we had to stick to it. Otherwise we'd be, for example, voicing maybe one out of every six lines for Durance and the Grieving Mother, and it'd be conspicuously incongruent with the other companions, who had maybe 2/3 of their lines voiced. Unfortunately in this case it meant cutting down characters that had had a lot of research and creative energy invested in them, and there were some good ideas there that it would've been interesting to explore. It was a shitty thing to have to do, but we'd never have been able to implement the original versions in time to ship.​

Since you can't comment on PoE's case in particular: is having similar lengths and amount of voiced lines a priority for you in companion design? In Torment and KOTOR2 some companions didn't have nearly as many lines as others, but neither game suffered for it, if you look at how they were received.

I can confirm some of the elements - there’s still people I can ask, so if I can’t remember, it’s easy to find someone who can jog my memory (I can’t check the details on my own). I also managed to get some clarification on some of the points, which was welcome, so…

Of those three reasons, the first was the only one I ever recall communicated to me (I had to get confirmation on it and these other points, since it’s been a long time). The other two reasons weren’t, and I actually got multiple other reasons from multiple people – and some of those people admitted they were just the messenger. This confused things, since they couldn’t articulate what the critiques were since they either didn’t understand them or hadn’t read the material (both our CEO and Parker among them – ironically, after a long speech ending with his admission he hadn’t even read what he was arguing against, Parker did go back and read the companions and found nothing to object to, which cost even more time – to his credit, he did admit his error, but things like that happened a lot).

There were other people who apparently didn’t like Durance’s swearing (easy fix), and the original tie in the GM and Durance backstories were they had violated each other physically and mentally and that’s what broke both of them, which I then cut – although I don’t know if the GM one got removed completely – the intention was the Watcher could fix it mentally by repairing their souls by walking through their minds in stages. I think some of this is still mentioned in the strat guide.

In the end, I just wanted to fix whatever the problems were and move on to the next task, because there were a lot of tasks that needed doing. I had done the best work I could, and it was up to the Pillars team to decide what fit best (which is fine, it’s what vision holders do), but no one was articulating what the problems were.

To speak to the implementation part, it had been promised by multiple people on Eternity (producers and Lead Creative) that they would set aside (their own) time for implementation and make sure it got done.

When the project ran over – and this happens, I don’t blame anyone for that – it was apparent they ran out of time for their own character implementations – and some companions even required two designers to implement. As such, other developers took on what tasks they could to try and make up for lost time. Things that could definitely have helped (hire an editor, like they eventually did for Tyranny) were refused in light of putting more devs from other projects rather than trying to fix the missing personnel. I was later informed that this time was not paid back, which was the hope but not a surprise, and I don’t think Paradox was ever fully aware the Tyranny team had been gutted (in general, publishers don’t like hearing the resources they’re paying for they aren’t getting).
​

if the 1st draft's reception by the team was "tepid" with the second draft being "slightly" + "less tepid" but "could run with it" - well, that's pretty disheartening. The fact it got approved by someone is also disheartening. Sometimes you have situations like that imposed on you (I've been there), but rarely with an internally-owned franchise.

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I had done the best work I could, and it was up to the Pillars team to decide what fit best (which is fine, it’s what vision holders do), but no one was articulating what the problems were.

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Letting Sawyer have it with both barrels.

Despite that and the clickbait-y snippet in the OP, this is largely a nuts-and-bolts type interview. An interview for RPG nerds.

Additionally someone (not me of course) should post this on SA to get the goon reaction to "Josh Sawyer pulled rank and messed with Durance and Grieving Milf, but was too much of a coward to criticize Chris directly to his face."

Last edited: Apr 30, 2018

Josh Sawyer's words of wisdom (that he failed to live up to with Pillars of Eternity 1.0 but succeeded with 3.0):

"Honestly, I think it's really sad that RPGs essentially get a pass on having fundamentally junk core gameplay. And yes, I do consider combat to be a core gameplay element of most RPGs."

Durance was a priest of Magran who helped build the bomb that destroyed St. Waidwen. The others who worked on it were killed, but Durance survived. He is an anti-authoritarian wanderer, who has particular dislike of the Aedyr Empire (and Readceras). He despises Eothas and anyone who worships him. Durance spent many years following the Saint's War, rooting out Eothas sympathizers; then not long after, rooting out those he believed responsible for the Hollowborn crisis. This led him to torture and ruin the soul of the Grieving Mother (in defense, she was forced to wound his soul to make him stop). Neither one of them recognizes the other when and if they meet.

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Durance does not know why his Magranic colleagues died or why he was spared, but he assumes he did wrong by his god. Over time he comes to learn that the gods are not unlike the authority figures he so often finds himself at odds with, and that he and the assassinated Magranic clergy were nothing but pieces in the gods' games. The Grieving Mother and Durance may come to odds or reconciliation over the course of the game.

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The "Grieving Mother" (GM) is a cipher who acted as a midwife in a local community. She was blamed for the births of other Hollowborn children in her community and, specifically, she was punished viciously and unjustly by Durance who saw her as part of the Hollowborn crisis.

The Grieving Mother's powerful cipher abilities cause awareness and perceptions to slide off of her, and she is difficult to recognize. Many simply see her as an unremarkable peasant woman who travels with the party and is not worth addressing.

She sees others through their souls, not their physical appearance. She does not communicate with people in the environment; although she may counsel the player on a course of action she feels strongly about and will warn the player of danger whenever possible. She is strongly motivated to end the Hollowborn crisis (even if it causes other problems), and she believes the Watcher is necessary for this to happen.

She does not blame Durance for the violations that were done to her soul and her body. She does not recognize him when he is in the party, as his soul is different from when they first met. The damage she did to him, arguably in self-defense, was considerable and far outweighed what was done to her. She is not an anguished figure. In many respects, she is quite serene and calm, even when inflicting harm on another (and she would kill without hesitation to protect her primary goals: ending the crisis and protecting the player). She often prefers to speak through visions rather than words.

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GM is in a state of deep mourning. Her substantial desire to see her children resurrected may lead her down a dark path.

And speaking of PoE, Fenstermaker confirmed in his Codex interview back then that multiple writers pitched a story for PoE and that his pitch sort of won. I've seen people say you pitched a story yourself, but I wasn't able to find a source on it. Was that the case or people (wrongly) assumed you did?

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Avellone said:

Yeah, I believe I told Crooked Bee I did one of the pitches, yes, and I'd probably broaden the pitch submissions to "designers" not "writers" ("writer" puts you in a corner).

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So he not only tried to be the lead narrative, but he also tried to be the lead designer and they didn’t let him. So much for “Avellone never wanted any responsibility in PoE” shilling defense. Unbelievable.

Avellone said:

Of those three reasons, the first was the only one I ever recall communicated to me (I had to get confirmation on it and these other points, since it’s been a long time). The other two reasons weren’t, and I actually got multiple other reasons from multiple people – and some of those people admitted they were just the messenger. This confused things, since they couldn’t articulate what the critiques were since they either didn’t understand them or hadn’t read the material (both our CEO and Parker among them – ironically, after a long speech ending with his admission he hadn’t even read what he was arguing against, Parker did go back and read the companions and found nothing to object to, which cost even more time – to his credit, he did admit his error, but things like that happened a lot).

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Feargus cementing his reputation of being unprofessional and disorganised, and Parker reinforcing the notion that he is a negative trainwreck. Imagine working with these loons for years.

Roguey said: "Most RPGs only offer the illusion of strategic gameplay because most people can't stand the idea of being unable to progress because they made a series of less-than-optimal decisions over time that added up".

Vault Dweller said: "That's what a lot of people want. Not a game where stats and skills matter but a game with adjustable stats/skills providing an illusion of a character system but ultimately only giving you bonus loot to make you even more awesome".

So he not only tried to be the lead narrative, but he also tried to be the lead designer and they didn’t let him. So much for “Avellone never wanted any responsibility in PoE” shilling defense. Unbelievable.

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You're misunderstanding. He considers himself a narrative designer, not just a writer. He didn't want to be a lead designer (see my sig).

Josh Sawyer's words of wisdom (that he failed to live up to with Pillars of Eternity 1.0 but succeeded with 3.0):

"Honestly, I think it's really sad that RPGs essentially get a pass on having fundamentally junk core gameplay. And yes, I do consider combat to be a core gameplay element of most RPGs."

You're misunderstanding. He considers himself a narrative designer, not just a writer. He didn't want to be a lead designer (see my sig).

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Roguey, what pitching the story of PoE as a designer amounted to? Being the lead writer and the lead designer.

Roguey said: "Most RPGs only offer the illusion of strategic gameplay because most people can't stand the idea of being unable to progress because they made a series of less-than-optimal decisions over time that added up".

Vault Dweller said: "That's what a lot of people want. Not a game where stats and skills matter but a game with adjustable stats/skills providing an illusion of a character system but ultimately only giving you bonus loot to make you even more awesome".

For Part 2, we're still discussing format - for simplicity, I might answer them piecemeal here in the forum thread (and if someone wants to collect them, they can, but I doubt it'd be worth it for all the 80+ questions), as I'd at least be able to make some incremental progress rather than a huge word dump many years later. :/

Great interview, lots of practical wisdom. Sometimes feels a little too practical, but I get that at a certain stage in life perhaps you get tired of people holding your first game out as the be-all-end-all of creation, especially if making it took a heavy personal toll. Several lines made me laugh, and several seemed worth putting into practice. Can't ask for more than that!

Congrats to Fairfax for this magnum opus! 20 years from now, people will be coming up to him and asking whether the two years he spent on this interview were worth it -- "It inspired so many other great interviews, it's a legend!" -- and a nervous tic will start in Fairfax's left eye and he'll say, "To whom? To the Codex? The interview was 18 months overdo, and in the interim the place turned into a mix of 4chan and popamolism. Yeah, it helped RPG Watch start a 'spiritual successor to the Codex' subforum, I guess, but that's not what any of us had in mind."

Damn good interview. It's funny (or maybe not) that the part about meetings is universal across completely different industries. Worst if you have a boss who likes to hear his own voice without saying anything of substance.

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The Elf! I first heard the word as a child, and as an unwise infant I hungered to know what this unusual beast that walked amongst us was, I wished to know its nature, and the reason for its alien demeanour. I walked the path of damnation. You see friend the unwise are curious, and the learned even more so, and they would say to know your enemy, to study him until his moves are predictable and obvious. This is the path of folly, mercy and forgiveness, and it is a path we can never tread. The wise know the truth, there must be ignorance of this abomination, there must be disgust and righteous hatred, and only when their ashes blow from the great burning that consumes them can we pause to regard a job well done.

Man is mortal, man is flawed, but man must triumph over the other and hold the universe in a bloody hand, lest it fall into the void. And make no mistake brethren, we stand even now at the very precipice of that void! ELDM - Elf Lives Don't Matter.