rickrick91 saidMore proof that the Repub party is pushing inexorably further and further to the extreme right.

LOL, there's nothing "rightwing about it", it's just reality vs liberal fantasy. I'd actually PREFER a world where liberal fantasy works because it's so much nicer, but it's like asking me to choose between believing in cancer or a magical wand. If I believe in cancer I realize the need for chemo, if I believe in magic then I don't need chemo but I'll die anyway!

rickrick91 saidMore proof that the Repub party is pushing inexorably further and further to the extreme right.

LOL, there's nothing "rightwing about it", it's just reality vs liberal fantasy. I'd actually PREFER a world where liberal fantasy works because it's so much nicer, but it's like asking me to choose between believing in cancer or a magical wand. If I believe in cancer I realize the need for chemo, if I believe in magic then I don't need chemo but I'll die anyway!

You mean like the right-wing fantasy that "deficits don't matter "- that caused the Repubs to blow up our National Debt?

No... we just have to "tax the rich" and "those corporate jet owners" and then everything will be fine.

Not just tax the rich SB,

We need to cut the two wars, cut about 50% from the pentagon, end the duplicative Dept of Homeland security, End welfare for big businesses, end support for their moving jobs overseas, end tax shelters and the bush tax cuts. Review Pentagon purchases where suppliers have been gouging the public coffers and go after each and every company who have been overcharging, Billions have been Identified recently. Close half the Bases the US keeps up around the world for no real purpose.

Make Medicare money go further by allowing more competition in drug purchasing rather than the current give aways to a few major Pharma. Co's, and allow purchaces from across our northern border.

Stop the Government from borrowing from SS funds, Increase the upper limit for SS deductions from $98,000 to $120,000 (this has been studied and the proposals numbers would work at solving the SS problem)

Have each state Identify what works best about Medicare/Medicaid and Identify where there is waste and abuse cut programs that duplicate or waste and solve the other problems that are Identified. Initiate a Public Insurance option that would be subscriber funded and it would save money because if Big Ins Co's can make money at it, a non profit version would certainly work. (the reason this wasn't already done was because of big Ins Co's lobbying and funding politicians stopped it because those Co's didn't want to lose the monopolies they have)

That's a start, Now SB and more of you conservs, come with some cuts other than making the poor poorer and don't come back telling me I'm cutting too much from the Pentagon, because we don't need all those bases and we don't need to keep those two wars going, nor do we need our god damn noses constantly in the business of the rest of the world.

Come up with some cuts that really shares the pain rather than the typical take from the poor to give to the rich wealth redistribution that's been going on for the last three decades and is now why we are in this current 'near depression'

rickrick91 saidMore proof that the Repub party is pushing inexorably further and further to the extreme right.

LOL, there's nothing "rightwing about it", it's just reality vs liberal fantasy. I'd actually PREFER a world where liberal fantasy works because it's so much nicer, but it's like asking me to choose between believing in cancer or a magical wand. If I believe in cancer I realize the need for chemo, if I believe in magic then I don't need chemo but I'll die anyway!

Do you mean the magic like what comes from the fantacy of continuing reductions of taxes on Corporations ,because everyone knows that when they have money they hire regardless of whether or not the demand for goods and services exists ?

Christian73 saidDo you not research the people who say ridiculous things like this in pubilc?

This "professor" is a right-wing fringe nut, who wrote about a book about how freeing the slaves through the Civil War, enslaved "free men to Big Government."

On the basis of that alone, I wouldn't believe him if he told me the sky is blue.

What he said isn't ridiculous. We ARE headed for a default inevitably.

Based on what? We've had more severe debt to GPD ratios in the past and grown and taxed our way out of them. The only difference now is that the Republican Party has been pushed so far to the right, that well-recognized and historicaly proven methods of correcting course are "heresy."

rickrick91 saidMore proof that the Repub party is pushing inexorably further and further to the extreme right.

LOL, there's nothing "rightwing about it", it's just reality vs liberal fantasy. I'd actually PREFER a world where liberal fantasy works because it's so much nicer, but it's like asking me to choose between believing in cancer or a magical wand. If I believe in cancer I realize the need for chemo, if I believe in magic then I don't need chemo but I'll die anyway!

Do you mean the magic like what comes from the fantacy of continuing reductions of taxes on Corporations ,because everyone knows that when they have money they hire regardless of whether or not the demand for goods and services exists ?

But in such a fragile economy some would suggest that instead of punishing business we should be creating incentives for business to return to the USA or at least create an environment that encourages businesses not to go overseas. You're proposing that we pour more water into the tub without regard to whether or not the drain is getting plugged. Unless you propose that the government conduct a takeover of private enterprise then your proposals only are great and logical on paper but result in something entirely different.

The UK is in a similar debt crisis to ours and yes, they have raised taxes on the rich, but at some point in time you can't just keep raising taxes and expect a healthy business climate. They will most likely end up defaulting just like us, whether sooner or later.

We need to have policies that are sustainable because in the end that's the only policy that works for the long-term. Liberal minded policies tend to propose greater government subsidies and benefits which appeals to the majority, but we see that they aren't sustainable in the end, only temporarily. Social security, for instance, was not created at the beginning to be sustainable and so now we are paying the price with a whole generation wondering if they might end up getting it! I doubt I'll get anything and I don't expect anything!

Liberals tend to call sustainable policies "cruel", but their policies end up with the same cruelty down the road but in a forced way with no other option.

Imagine a bank account with 2 people who have control over how much gets spent every month. A group of people are in charge of who is in power of deciding how that money is used. If they elect the fiscal conservative person they will probably get less handouts because there is a vested interest in keeping things sustainable even if there is a marginal amount of suffering in order to do that.

If they elect the liberal mind, there will immediately be talk about how inhumane and "cruel" it is to not be giving out more money to those who need it. The liberal mind ignores that one day after they have spent it all there's NOTHING to give out and the result is far more disastrous than if the other course was pursued.

People can talk about the idea of how one side is more interested in the poor or needy than another, but if the path leads down to even greater suffering for a future generation then is it really the more moral position?

Our history seems to be one of pursuing leftwing economic policies, whether so called "liberals" or 'conservatives" have been in power they have BOTH engaged in these practices. Wanton spending from a "conservative" does not make that a "rightwing" practice inherently simply because someone with an R is voting for it or engaging in it. I certainly do not agree with all policies pursued by republicans. For instance, I opposed the war in Iraq, I believe we should cut defense and military spending a lot more.

Mock said, "But in such a fragile economy some would suggest that instead of punishing business we should be creating incentives for business to return to the USA or at least create an environment that encourages businesses not to go overseas."

meninlove said Mock said, "But in such a fragile economy some would suggest that instead of punishing business we should be creating incentives for business to return to the USA or at least create an environment that encourages businesses not to go overseas."

One way to solve everything would be to get rid of the minimum wage! This would mean no more discrimination against young people and low skilled workers.

So let's say that without minimum wage a company would hire 20 people. Someone like you is "outraged" because of the fact that no one can survive on those wages, so you propose that $8.00 is what all businesses should pay MINIMUM an hour. The company now decides to lay off 10 people and so now you have 10 people working on a "liveable wage" and 10 people 100% collecting unemployment benefits. And now you congratulate yourself for "eliminating" poverty, but it's only an illusion.

So I've got a better solution, let's keep all 20 people at work by deciding how much money is needed for livelihood and whatever is not earned in wages will be provided in the form of a negative tax increase. No more bureaucracy.

This would create a far more fair playing field and now instead of blacks and young people suffering through discriminatory policies that might secretly exist among employers you have a situation where anyone can show their true merit through hard work.

I'm not proposing that we just leave hard workers stranded without a solution to basic needs, but you say "no one in the US could survive on those wages", so why are people in China able to survive on those wages? Maybe we should start exploring these questions.

rickrick91 saidMore proof that the Repub party is pushing inexorably further and further to the extreme right.

LOL, there's nothing "rightwing about it", it's just reality vs liberal fantasy. I'd actually PREFER a world where liberal fantasy works because it's so much nicer, but it's like asking me to choose between believing in cancer or a magical wand. If I believe in cancer I realize the need for chemo, if I believe in magic then I don't need chemo but I'll die anyway!

Do you mean the magic like what comes from the fantacy of continuing reductions of taxes on Corporations ,because everyone knows that when they have money they hire regardless of whether or not the demand for goods and services exists ?

But in such a fragile economy some would suggest that instead of punishing business we should be creating incentives for business to return to the USA or at least create an environment that encourages businesses not to go overseas. You're proposing that we pour more water into the tub without regard to whether or not the drain is getting plugged. Unless you propose that the government conduct a takeover of private enterprise then your proposals only are great and logical on paper but result in something entirely different.

The UK is in a similar debt crisis to ours and yes, they have raised taxes on the rich, but at some point in time you can't just keep raising taxes and expect a healthy business climate. They will most likely end up defaulting just like us, whether sooner or later.

We need to have policies that are sustainable because in the end that's the only policy that works for the long-term.

YOUR LAST SENTENCE is right on the mark

The tax level prior to bush tax cuts was very sustainable and brought about the 90's prosperity. so we agree !!! going back to those tax levels, would also help us afford to give the real small businesses $250,000 to $1,000,000 financial breaks/incentives to innovate in new technologies to help us get off oil as our chief energy source and invest in infrastructure projects that will put people to work and start moving the economy again. The above is not included in this TBagger effort to cut cut cut, Cutting only, will not work as a policy to put people to work, Government in these dire circumstances can create policies, spend on infrastructure that will put 'real' small businesses to work. The TBagger Montra of Cut only from programs only ends up taking more money out of the hands of the spending public, no small business will hire or expand if the spending public has no money and isn't spending to create demand.

I think you assume that I am totally liberal in thinking that Gov. is the primary answer to our problems, when in actuality I believe in a mix where Gov. is only a part of the answer to our problems. Businesses left this country because bad Gov. policy (corp welfare) and subsidies made their leaving lucrative and led to loss of jobs for Americans here at home.

"I'm not proposing that we just leave hard workers stranded without a solution to basic needs, but you say "no one in the US could survive on those wages", so why are people in China able to survive on those wages? Maybe we should start exploring these questions."

Study China and see what the conditions are like for those minimum wage earners.