Why no zeta refunds this time around? I would really appreciate a refund as his kit is so drastically different from what I initially invested in. If it was just an omega I could cope with that, but it's a zeta...

So you said no refund of the Zeta, then I propose you somehow give me the option to select a new Zeta and weigh the value of these changes over time so that I can make a new decision to invest a Zeta on Finn's leadership......wait a minute

wat

You see I over complicated it for CG, but the net result for would be a set of zeta mats to do with as I please.

For what it's worth, I think that Poe should indeed get a zeta that restores this team to what it was in PvP. Something like "when an attack on an enemy from a Resistance ally triggers damage from expose, all Resistance allies gain 5% potency and 10 speed (stacking) until the end of the encounter."

The issues:
(1) Finn was a primary leader for the B squad resistance. With the introduction of 3P0 it also included B team rebels. While this squad was useless in defense, it was a primary offense team in GA, TW, and arena for beating revan and Traya by TM locking the opposing team. This allowed squishy characters to beat meta.

(2) zFinn made the tank raid autoable, and as old content we dont want to spend 2 hours slogging thru with other solo teams.

(3) Phase 3 of the Sith raid. It's just not fun and Finn made it fast and easy.

The change:
(1) With the DRASTIC reduction in TM gain, and the removal of rebels from team options, this team can no longer TM lock an entire team. While it may have a 40% (Max if perfect RNG) TM swing 25% of that swing only affects one opposing character. This means against multiple fast characters this will be ineffective. Since the resistance team is squishy and generally slow, allowing any opposing team to move at all and start their own TM chain means a loss.

(2) The change of 35% TM gain for any expose, down to 15% means it is very unlikely that Finn will get enough turns to ramp his damage enough to compensate for the TM loss. Also since phases 2 and 4 of the tank are immune to TMR, hitting auto will not be viable.

(3) Anyone who has tried this team in phase 3 of heroic Sith knows that the team doesn't survive. At all. Really. If you tried this team without first having traya 1 shot from topple you know what I mean. Sending zFinn in against traya while all sabers are full health means watching your team die before topple starts. With the drastically reduced TM gain you likely will get only 2 or 3 turns per character before topple ends. Not enough time for Finn to stack damage to make any meaningful addition. Also since only resistance allies are viable it will mean neutering your P1 JTR squad to make a P3 team viable.

The solution:
(1) Possible solutions include adding resistance to the 3p0 unique that exposes on basic, adding some chance to expose on critical hits to finn leader similar to JTR, or having any expose damage remove TM from all enemies currently expose.

(2) When you make Rancor able to Sim, do the same for tank IMMEDIATELY.

(3) Rework other resistance who dont currently have expose mechanics (Scav rey, holdo, rose) to expose on basic or have an expose of some kind. Change resistance pilot to be a 100% chance to expose (still needs P/T check) and/or release new resistance characters that can AOE expose or apply multiple exposes to a single target so that zFinn P3 can be viable without neutering P1 teams.

1. They ask for ideas on TW to "spruce it up". Community responds by overwhelmingly telling them to sprinkle in a few fun buffs every now and then. CG comes up with the bright idea to ban over 2 dozen toons (voted on by community according to their data). Community responds overwhelmingly saying bans are the worst idea they have ever come up with. CG responds with "bans may return down the line."

2. CG ignores an easy fix to the Finn infinite loop in there already outdated Sith Raid (Traya tenacity increase) by having a toon that has been out for a long time undergo a complete rework. I know the only reason they did this was to protect Revan in arena despite whatever lies they come up with

They are literally strangling their golden goose to death (much like what Rian Johnson and Kathy did to the current trilogy). Still a fun game to play but they have not demonstrated that they listen or care about their customers so I will be entirely F2P going forward.

I was able to solo haat a long time ago, but it took a lot of time micro managing p1 and p2. When I saw the Finn video that would allow me to solo haat on auto of course I zetaed him. I spend too much time in game as is. Now that's gone. I get you don't want to refund a zeta right before a rework of the droids but can we get something to compensate for the changed investment? Maybe a g12 rose. Lol

I'm indifferent about the change, I think it could be a good fit for resistance teams, but changing the way something functions should be an auto refund situation...

If someone buys something with the intent that it works one way and then it gets an update which makes it not work *exactly the same as the expectation* they should be able to decide that value for themselves.

That is all I'm interested in and I couldn't care less about Finn in raids (HAAT, srsly???).

Yes, I do have Revan and I think Revan mirror matches are probably the worst since I started playing this game, long ago.

So, the question is, does the new Finn beat Revan?

no. they are too fast and will resist TMR.

even against FO, it looks questionable due to the speed they have.

Right, though, here's what CG said:

"These changes do not drastically alter the performance of the Finn-led Resistance squad in PvP, but his changes do offer the team some additional utility and a slight improvement in their PvP presence. With ramping damage now present on Finn’s basic ability and his 2nd special ability, the longer he can stay alive and the more turns he can take, the more potent he becomes. Determination goes a long way in making this a reality, as it provides not only an additional means of spreading damage around the team by providing Finn with the ability to Taunt, but also grants him Retribution which can give him a few free hits to ramp up damage on his basic ability. While these changes haven’t brought the Resistance squad into the current competitive meta, they can more handily dispose of teams such as Kylo Ren (Unmasked)-led First Order and General Kenobi-led Jedi."

My sole interest in ZFinn is pvp, giving me a somewhat reliable and fast way of beating Revan.

It seems that does drastically change his pvp performance. And it's not just against "one team".

There is more to PvP than arena. There are more teams used in PvP content than Revan.

so changing the interaction with a single (or 2 teams) is not a drastic change to their PvP performance.

I dont see him getting enough hits to make the bonus damage mean anything. I also dont see the TM gain against revan being enough to counter all the speed and TM gain on a revan team.

I could be wrong about FO, but to get it going before you only needed Poe to be faster, now you will probably need more speed in general. so while it may be doable, its likely going to need changes to the whole team to be able to "handily dispose" of teams you could take down before.

IMHO

If Revan wasnt meta , you'd have a valid point , but changing the way a team interacts with the Meta , absolutely affects their pvp usage, im sorry.

I was replying to why they may be saying that this wont drastically change pvp. Not that it will not drastically change the current arena situation, because it's hard to see how it wont.

Finn is used in arena at many levels and not every shard is run by raven.

You've alreaready set the precedent on refunds. This was an extremely useful zeta in pvp settings and now it won't be nearly as good. No one cares about your sith raid. Refund my zeta and gear for finn and let me decide if I want to replace it. Additionally, similar to daka - zombie, now I view Poe in the same manner. A fast and high potency Poe was the engine for the tm train. So mine has all gear pieces including g12+. I want that back too.

After 3 years I should have quit this game already due to such CG shenanigans. However my love of sw and the friends I've made playing along the way keep me going.

You guys redefine biting the hand that feeds. I literally hve a stump left from you CG.

Kittens

Refund the zeta or continue to keep up your sterling reputation of disappointment to the people you should be catering to.

Something nobody seems to consider is that many of us just recently (like myself last week) invested stun guns and Droid Callers into zFinn SPECIFICALLY to beat Revan... I had a brand new Traya and chose to work on zFinn because it was easier. Now I am set back and have neither a Traya nor a useful Revan counter, as of whenever the nerf comes in. This post is not a demand for gear refund (I know that's prohibited), just a statement that it is a bit unfair to pull out the rug underneath some players and waste their hard earned investment. People will be afraid to gear up characters if they can lose it all like this.

People that are upset: if you really spent all this time telling yourself "they'll just change Traya and leave Finn alone lol," you have only yourself to blame. Changing Finn was the only logical course of action here.

I will say that knocking the friendly TM gain all the way down to 3% seems a bit excessive. But given that he was basically made obsolete by JTR before and pretty much only came back because of an unintended infinite loop, he looks like a much better all-around character now. I think it'll be interesting to see what kind of numbers Takedown can put up against raid bosses with the huge stacking bonus.

People that are upset: if you really spent all this time telling yourself "they'll just change Traya and leave Finn alone lol," you have only yourself to blame. Changing Finn was the only logical course of action here.

I will say that knocking the friendly TM gain all the way down to 3% seems a bit excessive. But given that he was basically made obsolete by JTR before and pretty much only came back because of an unintended infinite loop, he looks like a much better all-around character now. I think it'll be interesting to see what kind of numbers Takedown can put up against raid bosses with the huge stacking bonus.

And you think this rework won't affect pvp utility? Why tf am I to blame for that? It's my primary use for this zeta and has been since territory wars started.

People that are upset: if you really spent all this time telling yourself "they'll just change Traya and leave Finn alone lol," you have only yourself to blame. Changing Finn was the only logical course of action here.

I will say that knocking the friendly TM gain all the way down to 3% seems a bit excessive. But given that he was basically made obsolete by JTR before and pretty much only came back because of an unintended infinite loop, he looks like a much better all-around character now. I think it'll be interesting to see what kind of numbers Takedown can put up against raid bosses with the huge stacking bonus.

And you think this rework won't affect pvp utility? Why tf am I to blame for that? It's my primary use for this zeta and has been since territory wars started.

I mean, no matter what they did, it was going to **** somebody off. I dunno what you want me to tell you here. For my money, "fixing the loop and making the rest of his kit dramatically better than it was before, plus giving him an actual taunt" seems like a pretty good solution. You'll survive somehow, I'm sure of it.

People that are upset: if you really spent all this time telling yourself "they'll just change Traya and leave Finn alone lol," you have only yourself to blame. Changing Finn was the only logical course of action here.

I will say that knocking the friendly TM gain all the way down to 3% seems a bit excessive. But given that he was basically made obsolete by JTR before and pretty much only came back because of an unintended infinite loop, he looks like a much better all-around character now. I think it'll be interesting to see what kind of numbers Takedown can put up against raid bosses with the huge stacking bonus.

And you think this rework won't affect pvp utility? Why tf am I to blame for that? It's my primary use for this zeta and has been since territory wars started.

I mean, no matter what they did, it was going to **** somebody off. I dunno what you want me to tell you here. For my money, "fixing the loop and making the rest of his kit dramatically better than it was before, plus giving him an actual taunt" seems like a pretty good solution. You'll survive somehow, I'm sure of it.

Sure I will. I can survive and complain though. If you didn't use this team for pvp it probably means less to you which is understandable. Making the judgment sight unseen that the kit will be drastically better is a leap.