EBook Review: 60 Years Of Challenge

60 Years of Challenge is the nom de plume of a pick-up artist (or, in more conventional language, a womanizer). He wrote an ebook detailing his game principles and techniques, and CH was given a PDF copy to review. The ebook is a couple years old, and 60 now has new material on his website, (warning: you’ll have to wade through the usual cheesy marketing stuff, but to 60’s credit it’s not as obnoxious or long-winded as most PUA advertisement pages). The older ebook contains the core of his pick-up philosophy and game material, but it may not be purchasable any longer, so readers who want 60’s wisdom will have to buy from the link posted above.

I’ll touch on the themes of 60’s book and highlight where he’s strongest and most differentiates himself from other pick-up teachers, and where I think his material comes up short.

60’s primary contention, and the philosophy that guides his game strategy, is that men should be gunning for the fast lay, not because it’s “cool”, but because it’s easier than taking the slow road. Consequently, most of his approaches are basically direct, but without being sexually overt.

“Hey…I want to meet you”

I deliver this with a seductive but very serious voice. Very humble. The more scared you are the more genuine you should be. Beat fear with love. I put out my hand to introduce myself, she takes it and we start talking. I don’t let go of her hand and she doesn’t pull away. Time stops. I know it’s probably on. Even still I move really close to her quickly. Better to move close now, than wait until later on when it’s more obvious.

He’s a big proponent of steady, unwavering physical escalation, particularly when the moment is open for it. (Escalation is a recurring problem for most betas.)

60 correctly identifies an issue a lot of men have: the tendency to elicit sexual interest but then fall back on lazy, self-congratulatory attitudes before the deal has been closed. He calls this tendency “sexual tension masturbation”.

Sexual tension masturbation (STM) is when you think you have something going with a girl with your eye contact, vibe and all your little visualizations and other fantasy bullshit. Look man sexual tension is great, but if you don’t solidify the connection physically (ie. mutual caressing) it all gets forgotten about. It was all in your head. […]

Don’t use the power of sexual tension as an excuse not to start conversations or make overt physical escalations. You guys know who you are. The ones who say they “only open women with eye contact” (when actually they are scared to open) and “escalate with vibe” (obviously they’re really just scared to show overt interest).

60 agrees with CH that a sexual frame is critical to success with women. (When you visualize women as sexual creatures before anything else, your subtle shift in mannerism around women cues them to reciprocate the favor.)

I’m always aware of my cock. It’s my emotional gage. I’m not hard. Why am I not hard? Ok we can fix that. While she talks I start picturing her blowing me face down on my bed while I palm her ass with one hand. Again, being in a sexual state is important, but if you are only going to pick one crucial moment per night to be in a sexual state, it’s right now! I am now operating from a desire for sex (need 1) vs. affection (need 2). A second ago I was daydreaming about getting coffee and snuggling up with her in bed with a good book. Nothing wrong with that except that women don’t snuggle with guys they don’t have a sexual connection with. I have to get the sex before I can be the guy enjoying coffee in bed.

Core psychological difference between alpha and beta males:
Alphas pursue hot, dirty sex, and accept that relationships could be a consequence of a successful pursuit.
Betas pursue loving, affectionate relationships, and accept that sex could be a part of a successful pursuit.

Men are better looking when they are listening with seductive intensity than when they are talking or smiling stupidly. Plus, listening to a girl yap on and on weave elaborate worlds of fantasy and flourish will put her in a sexually receptive state.

For most guys using their seductive face (lips, sleepy eyes) makes them way better looking than their social face (big smile, open eyes).

You might not consider yourself good looking but few guys making a seductive face will be considerd bad looking by women.

If you’re an ugly guy, all I can say to you is: what choice do you have? Sit at home and fap morosely? You may as well put yourself out there and demonstrate the boldness that women love. Even a 1 out of 100 close rate beats a 0 out of 0 close rate.

60’s approach strategy is to focus on girls who come into or near your zone of influence. That is, don’t hunt high and low for girls to talk to; rather, focus your attention on girls who enter the area you are sitting or standing. This is sound advice for beginners still getting over stage fright and turned off by the contortions involved in executing the “approach machine” mentality. Plus, girls who have veered into your orbit, whether they are consciously aware or not, have signaled some interest, and are thus easier to open. He suggests that men who can’t think of anything to say use the easiest non-verbal opener in the world: the cheers. Few women will resist a raised glass. Other wordless openers include the handshake hold, the light body bump, and the spin.

There is some standard stuff here about not being afraid to blow it. Men paradoxically do worse in the beginning of the night because that’s when they give more of a fuck about meeting and attracting girls. As the night, and the misfires, wear on, that fear gets supplanted by a fuck-it attitude that is more attractive to girls. That fuck-it attitude needs to be your attitude *all the time*. You have to be always on, or, more precisely, always off. So get your rejections out of the way early in the night so you can enjoy the rest of the night in a more relaxed state of mind.

60 also reveals a little trick for tongue-tied men that has worked for me on occasion: Tell girls that you have trouble saying something.

I will tell people that I’m having an anxiety attack and I need to take a little break. I really don’t give a fuck what they think about it. Not surprisingly this has cut down the frequency of my panic attacks dramatically.

The act of airing your anxieties — a form of beta vulnerability game that is charming in small, self-aware (and self-controlled) doses — is catnip to chicks. Telling a girl that you are “having trouble saying something really cool and interesting at the moment, so just sit tight and magic will happen if you’re patient” is guaranteed to put a smile on almost any girl’s face. Note that there is a subtle qualification test for the girl buried in that opener.

1st Time: Assume Failure

The first time I make an overt “it’s on” escalation (O-IOE) like putting out my hand or grabbing her hand I just assume it’s not going to work. I figure she is probably going to pull her hand away quickly or simply not comply. Same thing if I go for a kiss instead. I fully expect her to turn away on the first try.

But I don’t care if she turns her cheek because the point of the first escalation wasn’t for it to succeed. It was only to show her that I am confident and go for what I want. Escalation is attractive. If I create an it’s on moment on the first try I consider it a bonus.

Chicks dig boldness. Escalating is bold. (MGTOWs wept.)

60 goes into a lot of detail about demonstrating to girls that you can handle social tension, or what we hear at CH refer to as grace under pressure. Shit tests are tension tests; the girl wants to know if you’ll fold like a cheap lawn chair. If you do, you are not a worthy alpha male who will protect her and her tribe from marauders. As 60 says, you don’t want to break the tension; you want to ride it out until *she* breaks the tension. Then you have acquired for yourself seduction hand. For example:

Hey, I want to grab a drink with you on Wednesday.

~ I can’t. I have to work late

This is the point where most guys can’t deal with the awkwardness and just assume this means she isn’t interested. As such, they immediately blab out something stupid to break the tension ie. “oh, that sucks”. Instead stay completely silent. Don’t let her off the hook. Give her a few moments to come back with her own idea.

~ I’m free on Thursday night.

~ We can go to my place.

If you always feel the need to break the awkward silence and let her off the hook, you will never give her a chance to think up a solution. […]

This moment of silence also makes it clear that you know exactly what her little game is all about. She is trying to string you along while still keeping your male attention and you’re not going to put up with it. This moment of silence exposes her. Let the truth about her interest level be heard. She’s been busted without having to verbally call her out, which is lame.

I like 60’s seduction style, because it follows a tenet of “less is more” for verbal interaction, while simultaneously pursuing a “more is more” attitude toward physical interaction. It’s the sort of game that will appeal to men who aren’t naturally socially hyperactive and who instead prefer a laid-back, mystery man approach with heavy emphasis on body language cues and nuanced facial expressions.

Reframe Ignoring

You can also reframe it if a woman is ignoring your texts. Yes, you can even reframe silence. Is she ignoring you or is she flirting with you? It’s up to you to decide.

all of a sudden you’re shy? you are such a flirt

It’s the way you interpret her testing and resistance that will dictate your response. It helps to be delusionally confident.

Sometimes one of your friends will come over and indirectly try to hit on the girl you are talking to. Other times random guys will try to steal your set.

He means well but maybe your buddy is very talkative and thinks he is good with women. The key here is to stay quiet and keeping holding eye-contact with your target (the listener) while he is busy doing the talking and entertaining.

Do not look or turn your body towards him. Don’t comment on anything he says. This will just give him more attention and power.

This technique is very powerful because you are communicating with her on the non-verbal level while he is still stuck on the verbal level.

You can even start using eye-coding her like

“isn’t it cute. he is trying so hard”

You guys are secretly tooling him. He will never be able to recover from that.

AMOG management. (AMOG = alpha male of the group, or alpha male other guy). So true. Have you ever noticed how blatantly — to the point of rudeness — naturals will do this? They will turn their backs, literally, on any AMOG, even if he is a friend, if the guy tries to horn in on the action. And, like a jungle cat, the natural’s eyes will never unlock from his prey’s eyes. Do these things, and you can learn to be a natural.

You are Ugly

She thinks I am ugly. Tell me something I don’t know.

I know you were hoping you might be at least decent looking. Dude, you’re ugly.

And the sooner you realize and admit you are ugly the better. The great news is you don’t have to be traditionally “good looking” to attract women.

If you want to be considered “good looking” in woman’s eyes, you have to have the confidence to not care that you are ugly.

Confidence is sexy. And a big part of being confident is realizing you are not good looking, but you don’t give a fuck. Women will definitely pick up on this attitude.

The only way to be confident is to actually have male model looks or admit that you are ugly. So if you aren’t a male model, then you are ugly. Say it. I am ugly. Like most guys you are probably average looking. But you can’t be average looking and still be worrying about looks. That is a formula for disaster.

Let it go man

Even if you are decent looking and have confidence with some women, there will always be even hotter girls who you feel are out of your league based on your looks. You are never going to be better looking than a woman. Let women worry about looking good and smelling nice. Stop playing the looks game. Stop the insanity. You are ugly. You are short, fat, bald, and you smell. And it doesn’t matter.

But 60, despite his solid advice, doesn’t much like opening girls. He prefers, as do I, using the opener as a screen for girls who are interested, and getting to the seduction part of the pick-up sooner rather than later. Because the quicker you get to actually seducing women, the closer you get to the lays, and the more hot sex you ultimately squeeze out of your short window of opportunity here on earth.

My whole goal for opening is to make it as quick and efficient as possible. That’s why I recommend non-verbal opening. aka as physical opening. I want to ping as many cute girls as I can in the shortest amount of time.

I want to get to the fun part. Seducing. I would rather be having an interesting conversation or just listening while seducing a girl with my eyes than be approaching.

I really enjoy seducing cute women that have at least some interest in me. Even though I hate opening, finding them is my motivation. Because for every nine frumps there is always one really cute and interesting girl that I have a lot of fun hanging out with that night.

Outright, prompt rejection is actually not the worst thing that can happen to you. The worst is the “low interest” girl; she will put in juuuust enough effort to keep you around, but not much more to help move the interaction to a sexual crescendo. At least with the girls who rudely reject you, you can move on right away to better prospects; the cockteasers can keep you invested in a shit stock if you don’t have the experience to know when to sell.

What is a magic number

A magic number is how many women you have to contact before you find one who has interest in you based solely on your presence.

A guy with no confidence, bad posture and no style and could have a magic number as high as 100. Meaning he would have contact 100 women to get one good lead. This is an extreme example but still even with a few minor tweaks to his presence he could easily reduce that number to 1 in 50.

Why its good to know your magic number

What if you knew with 100% certainty that if you approached ten women you would go home with one of them. I think you would be really excited to start approaching ten women.

60 spends most of his ebook taking about how to transform a lukewarm girl into a boiling cauldron of twat tingles. His belief is that opening is more about screening out completely uninterested girls (the “red light” girls) and game is more about the skill to convert those girls who have shown some minimal interest (minimal interest in girl-code is MUCH more encrypted than would be minimal interest expressed by the typical man) into lovers.

I know why he does this: the initial meet, and any accompanying instant attraction levels, are subject to a degree of randomness that the later comfort and seduction stages are not. Any individual girl could be taken, PMSing, upset, thinking about some other dude, mad at being dragged out by her friends, or simply MHC incompatible, and most efforts to attract her on your part will be pissing into the wind. While there is plenty of game material on how to CREATE attraction, 60 prefers to emphasize the game techniques that come into play once a girl has been screened for a tiny hint of interest (or, more precisely, screened for an absence of unresponsiveness). Strangely, although approach game is more exposed to forces of randomness, everything after the approach and initial meet is exposed to more opportunities to FUCK IT UP royally. A girl who is sticking around for a few minutes to get a feel for your alpha maleness is also going to become a harsher judge of any missteps you make. Game helps men avoid those missteps and guide transiently invested girls into stronger, more sexually charged commitments.

No Tension

I know some guys still think this ambiguity is a good thing. It’s better if she is wondering about your intentions, right? Actually not really. That’s because there is almost NO tension when you start a conversation this way. It’s way too comfortable for her right from the start. Most times after your initial comment and subsequent thread runs its course , the interaction fizzles out. On the other hand using very direct openers (ie. you are absolutely stunning!) can also be hit or miss.

As such, I usually choose the middle ground. For example, my favorite way to start a conversation is ”Hey, you looked interesting. I figured I would come over and introduce myself.” This line is delivered seductively but slightly aloof. Yes I want to meet her but I’m not completly won over yet. This opener obviously creates some tension but it’s not so over the top that it’s awkward. It doesn’t box you in. You can still be a challenge and she still has to qualify. In fact, by adding that she “looked interesting” most women will want to stay consistent with that and try to live up to your initial perception of them. In other words, qualify to you.

Quick Tip

I know it can be hard for some guys to build-up enough confidence to walk over and simply introduce themselves to a woman. And some guys just can’t do it at all. They feel much more comfortable with the comment, question or opinion format. So for them I recommend making their situational comment and then stating their intention.

Example

indirect – situational comment: looks like you are really enjoying that book, is that something I should be reading?

her: actually it’s really funny! I can’t stop laughing.

direct – state intention: well you looked interesting, so I thought I would come over and introduce myself.

I’m an advocate for showing ambiguity, but 60 makes a good point that too much ambiguity will be misread by girls as friendship offers, or worse, as cowardly avoidance of one’s real intentions. 60 is really a student of the indirect-direct opener school. His directness is less sexual than it is plausibly deniable, and he even advises that a direct opener can be used on the heels of an indirect opener if you are the kind of guy who likes to catch women off-guard (or you’re justifiably squeamish about being perceived as too flattering of girls). I believe the indirect-direct opener is Krauser’s method of operation as well.

I’m still not a fan of saying your name before you’ve gotten the girl’s name, (your name should be a reward for her name or, better yet, should remain mysteriously hidden as long as possible), so I would avoid openers that use the phrase “introduce myself”. Substitute with “say ‘hi'” instead.

60 has something to say to those guys (usually trolls) who wonder if practiced aloofness and stating one’s intentions, however ambiguously, are mutually exclusive:

If you think letting women know that you wanted to meet them gives them the upper hand, think again. Remember, contacting women on dating sites doesn’t stop guys from being challenging or qualifying them. Even though she assumes they must be interested. These guys are taking advantage of the built-in excitement that comes when someone (anyone) is interested in you. People like people who like them.

When you stay completely vague about why you came over to talk, women won’t register the interaction as anything to be excited about. She can relax. They stop listening and lose interest. They play with their phones and start looking around. That’s because she really does think you are just “being social” or you were just making a comment. Even if she eventually realizes you probably came over to talk to her, she isn’t going to give you any points for having confidence. She will think you were scared so you made up an excuse. By this point it’s too late anyway. She is too comfortable with you.

I wouldn’t go as far as 60 in his assertion that indirect game will bore women and friendzone yourself; in the right hands, Straussian opinion opener game can work well, as long as one knows when to ratchet the tension. The problem with indirect, “social” game is that there is a risk it will be used as a crutch by men to avoid more intimate escalation.

It is way more important to open a woman within three seconds than to wait until you can think of something clever to say. In fact, it doesn’t really matter what you say.

You can say I love tigers, this is my song or simply hello. Just as long as you say it within three seconds.

The most important thing is that you don’t procrastinate and sike yourself out. And eventually creep her out. You will get more points for having the confidence to approach quickly than you would if you came up with something really good to say, but waited.

Amen, bro. No argument here.

60 thinks that humbleness rather than cockiness is the preferred method of bantering female shit tests.

Hey do you guys think it’s OK for a girl to Twitter about her date while she is still on the date?

They are nice but out of nowhere her friend says: “Is this your excuse to come and and talk to us?”

Now I know some guys would think it’s the perfect time for a cocky comeback. Don’t Break Rapport

Actually you guys looked fun so I wanted to come introduce myself.

Do not let her bait you to break rapport. Do not give her an excuse to reject you. Your confident approach already has her attracted. Women don’t test guys they aren’t attracted to.

I disagree with this last assertion. Women will often test men they aren’t YET attracted to, in order to determine just how attractive a man is. There might be an initial, asexual curiosity by her, but full-blown attraction in women can take a few minutes to really metastasize. Nevertheless, 60’s advice is solid; cockiness can be overplayed, especially if you are already perceived as a confident man.

A general rule is the less attractive she is the more humble you need to be.

This is just a reiteration of the CH maxim that the hotter the chick, the tighter your game will need to be.

Clown Zone

Keep in mind that although a social opener is low risk, the more clownish your opener is the harder it will be to switch to a seductive vibe later.

This is my main beef with the older Tyler Durden style of game. High energy, borderline spastic openers and mass social proofing is anathema to men who either prefer or are naturally more skilled at creating lower energy seductive vibes, aka brooding introverts. A player would have to be exceptionally skilled indeed to ably switch from one state to the other without seeming incongruent.

Anti-Manifesto

It is my belief that it’s not so much as you need to do or say “special” things to CREATE attraction as much as you just need to NOT do the small things that reduce the sexual tension that is already there. And eventually kill it forever.

In the end it always seems to come down to who wins the little tension battles:

Eye Contact: who is going to look away first
Introduction: who pulls their hand away first
Silence: who gives in and talks first
Resistance: who tries to diffuse the awkward moment first
Who breaks down and needs to have a talk about “what is going on” first.

Yes, game is as much avoidance of anti-seduction behaviors as it is execution of pro-seduction behaviors. In fact, the former is a prerequisite for the latter; you have to rid yourself of the bad before the good can find purchase.

I’ll quote the following from 60 because it is SO important for newbs to understand:

Escalation & Resistance

Anytime you get verbal or physical resistance there will be even more tension in the air. This is good news. Resistance is great! But if you react to the resistance verbally (ie. trying to diffuse the awkwardness by making a joke) you will kill that tension. The same thing happens if you look sad and become pouty. If you don’t react to her resistance it never becomes real. It’s not official. It’s like it never happened. Being unreactive and keeping composed lets you be very persistent without coming across needy.

What do I hear there? Ah yes, the female rationalization hamster! You need to befriend that hamster and to make it spin for you instead of against you. Non-reactiveness is a surefire social technique for putting that furball to work in your service.

Risk Creepy

As I have discussed before you want to embrace awkwardness and risk creepy. You want her breathing heavy and get her heart beating faster. That’s because these symptoms mimic the signs of her being attracted. This tension is a good thing. You want it to be a bit awkward. You don’t want things to feel too comfortable.

Better to be creepy than invisible.

The Hard Truth

For some guys using fast escalation will be the only way they can ever create attraction with really hot women. The confidence displayed by fast escalation overcomes all of their shortcomings in other areas. You are wasting your time if you are using anything else.

60 emphasizes fast escalation, physical but also to a lesser extent verbal, and with good reason: You really can short-circuit a girl’s latent objections to sex by escalating fast and taking her out of her head. Remember, women WANT and LOVE to submit to a strong man. And escalation is a manifestation of strength.

Guys just want things to end good

So they can have their little story about how they got a hot girls number or flirted with a really attractive woman. It’s an ego thing. They didn’t escalate because they didn’t want things to end bad. But it always ends bad. Every single time.

Follow everything to its conclusion. Every set. Every number. Every prospect. Every time. Unless you get the girl it will always end bad. And at some point it will eventually end bad with her as well. And that’s OK. […]

Make sure it always ends bad.

Raise your hands, all you guys who chatted up a girl, got her smiling, and then bailed on asking for the number or a date because you froze and decided that her smile was good enough for you. Follow through to failure. You will never have success if you’re afraid to court failure.

There’s a big chunk of the middle section of the ebook that deals with tension management, eye contact, inner game, shit tests, seductive listening, qualification, kino (combining “accidental” and deliberate touches), compliance, persistence, anti-slut defenses, isolation, last minute resistance (“Don’t wait for resistance. Resist yourself.”) and rapport (he’s not a huge fan of intentionally breaking rapport to build tension), which I will skip over because most of the readers are already familiar with these topics, and 60’s contribution is not radically different from the information in other pick-up resources. It’s still very good, though, and 60 is a clear, insightful writer whose material would sit well on the top shelf along with other renowned game manuals.

60 Years of Challenge is a great resource if you are looking for information on powerful post-approach, early- and mid-stage game techniques, body and facial language, and non-verbal escalation. Physical, non-verbal escalation plays such a big part of 60’s game philosophy that it’s a wonder the autistic feminist hen cluckers haven’t latched onto his tome as a field manual for instituting rape culture. But the player is right and the feminists are wrong (there’s news): girls love the feeling of “being taken” by a dominant man, and part of that feeling requires of girls that they put forth tokens of resistance.

60 is a little weak in the areas of creating raw attraction and relationship management, but there are plenty of other pick-up resources out there that cover those territories extensively. He stresses that cocky/funny teasing is counterproductive in many cases, which is where he markedly differs from his pick-up peers. He asserts that silence and a seductive stare create more delicious sexual tension than a witty comeback. (It is on this subject where I think his advice becomes too narrow in scope. There is certainly a place for playful teasing.). His theoretical musings on male-female psychosocial differences (or sameness) are superficial (he’s a member of the slut apologist club). Also, some of his advice contradicts itself, but that is a quibble when viewed against the mostly coherent whole, and to be expected when a good part of his ebook is a patchwork of his drive-by internet forum postings.

Disagreements aside, my overall style is sympatico with 60’s, and I suspect 60 and I would get along quite well in the field as wingman partners in grime.

Rating: 3.5 out of 4 engorged labia.

PS Here’s a parting quote from 60, directed at the mewling MGTOWs and huffy tradcons:

The game is not fair

I repeat. This game is not fucking fair. The best guy for her doesn’t win. The most attractive guy doesn’t automatically get to be the one to have sex with her.

The guy she likes best and the guy she ends up having sex with can be two totally different people.

It’s the guy who is persistent that gets the girl. It’s the guy who laughs off her tests and token resistance and keeps escalating that gets the girl. In the end he doesn’t even remember any of the resistance he got.

PPS I like this final thought from 60:

Visualize yourself as having a combination of the following. A seduction triple threat.

• The social skills of Vince Vaughn in Swingers• The seductive power of George Clooney
• The sexual drive of Tommy Lee on tour with Motley Crue

Pick your own characters or role models

Your goal is to become congruent with these 3 characters and be able to switch smoothly from one to the other without worrying that it’s strange.

You can’t go wrong imbuing yourself with the personality traits of the cocky socializer, the confident seducer, and the carnal sex machine. To be anything less would be… beta.

Like this:

Related

241 Responses

I’ve been discouraged and frustrated lately. As an illustrative example of something that happens to me all the time:
I see HB9 at bar. Approach, comfort, rapport, etc.
Then I get her outside for a smoke, number close, kiss close, I’m on my way.
Text her 2 days later “lets grab drinks”. No response. Feels bad man. Delete number so I don’t chump out and text again. Another night alone with Netflix, lol.
I guess numbers are worthless these days. If you can’t get the SNL, might as well move on. Only way to do it with women becoming increasingly whorish and flaky.

I know dat feel. The exact same thing happens to me. The interactions seem to go quite well and I can consistently kclose but there is no text response when I try to set up a day2. This has happened about half a dozen times to me in the last couple months. Very strange behavior. A friend in my local PUA lair told me the reason is that I’m not setting up enough of a prize frame to get the girls chasing me. However, this ‘prizing’ frame seems to be at odds with the aggressive ‘be a caveman and take what you want’ attitude that 60 and Heartiste advocate.

[Heartiste: The prize frame is a mentality that manifests as an attitude you have with you all the time. Persistence is a tactic that you use when necessary. The two are not contradictory.]

The reason game can be difficult is that there it advocates many (at least seemingly) contradictory things. For everything there is time, a time for persistance, a time for letting the girl come to you, a time to show interest and a time not to show interest, a time to show vulnerability and time to show strength.

[Heartiste: …a time to rend, a time to sew… a time to love, a time to hate… a time to game, i swear it’s not too late…]

Oh nevermind, you were linking to a specific comment.
Honestly, I’ve done the whole “lean in for a kiss but don’t follow through” thing. Still no results. Maybe I just have bad luck, may I’m dreaming all these encounters. Maybe the bitch got dicked down by an AMOG that same night and fell in love. I don’t know anymore. I wish I could report that Game is improving my life, but the truth is it usually just makes me question my worth as a male.
I’m not gonna bother getting numbers any more. I’ll just bang a slut when the stars are right and get on with my life.

You come off like you’ve got a lot of self-defeating victim mentality negativity/pessimism issues with your overall attitude/outlook that wearing a fuzzy hat and learning a few routines won’t fix. Some Tony Robbins or Eckhart Tolle might help.

Or just suck it up and keep trying. 🙂 Because you’re not far from a solution, you just need to keep tweaking your game until you’re doing it right.

Look at this logically instead of emotionally:

If she legit would’ve kissed you when you met her, then you know you’re fucking up somewhere between that moment where she was attracted enough to you, and texting. This is just simple logic. Between the attraction stage and meeting up, in order, are 1) what you do during that moment, 2) how you say goodbye, and 3) how you re-contact her to establish your Day 2.

So, logically, the ways you can fuck up those 3 main points are:

1) During that moment: not building enough comfort/rapport/connection/time-bridging/DHV’ing that she wants to see you again (time-bridge gives you guys a reason to have eachother’s number and makes it harder for her to bail, forcing her giving you her # is a great party trick but without comfort/rapport it’s not solid, not seeming any higher value or emotionally relevant than any of the other dozen guys htting on her later in the night, etc.)

2) Saying your goodbyes: accidentally sabotaging your pickup when you say goodbyes (bailing as soon as you get her # instead of building more comfort, her seeing you hitting on other girls, coming off too needy/clingy when you say goodbye, leaving her in the hands of a player who fucks her, getting her number too early in the night for her to remember you after a dozen other guys get hre number, etc.)

3) Re-contacting and establishing a Day 2: your text/phone game being weak and turning her off or at least not re-seducing her (boring/shitty re-initializing text, weak voice on the phone, failing shit-tests, not flirting/teasing enough to get her into state where she’ll be receptive, giving up too easily, etc.)

So which of these do you think it is if you think back to your interactions? Maybe it’s more than one of them. Work on these over the next few months and when you learn to handle them proper, you’ll see more success.

Try not allowing yourself to ask for phone numbers for the next 6 months, and instead work on your comfort/rapport (check out Magic Bullets comfort section, Juggler method, Mystery Method’s comfort stuff (pretty much the same as Magic Bullets)) and work on it until you get to the point where SHE is demanding you take her number or she’s demanding YOUR number. Either outcome is acceptable. She still might flake because for all you know she gets home and her parents are dead, you can’t control that lol but when you get to the point where girls insist that you contact them, you’re going to have way less flakes.

Once you can do that, then you can go back to asking for their number, but applying your new skill-set to the interaction. How do I know this works? Because I did it, and so did a bunch of other PUAs. It’s one of our training tools.

Pretty sure it has nothing to do with that. Read yareally’s comments in the thread. I haven’t read the thread so I don’t know, but it’s probably worth the effort no matter what he’s putting out as he is putting in the work like nobody else at this time. I’m pretty much done with that stage (yareally is taking it further), but I remember how it was.

In the URL I linked, the “#comment-405683” at the end links to a specific relevant-to-your-problem comment within the comment section of that article, as opposed to simply linking to the article the URL is based on.

As a result, when you click that link instead of just reading the URL and dismissing it outright like a lazy fuck, you’ll find a comment by me that breaks down exactly why you’re getting flakes, how to fix it, and how to avoid that in the first place, with nothing about the seven questions the article itself is about. 🙂

sorry to say, bro, but you’re entirely too defensive to people who trying to help you. if your shit was working, in all likelihood, you wouldn’t be in here whining, no? so you need to start over with the way you’re looking at all this.

the simple truth is that you need to get your mind right before you’re going to be successful in this game. this isn’t just about pulling the right levers and pushing buttons in the correct order. an aloof, outcome independent master of the universe doesn’t act this way on a message board and he doesn’t act this way on the mean streets.

if this is your normal response mechanism, you’re probably putting out a similar vibe in your pickups and overall interactions with others (girls are a subset of this). in short, FUCK THAT SHIT.

now, go read what yareally wrote in that threat he linked to and you will see that he directly addresses your concern. internalize what he suggests and then try it on for size.

Yeah, sorry for coming across like a bitch. YaReally’s advice is solid and he obviously knows what he’s talking about. I’m letting my emotions get the better of me here. It’s hard to shake that shitty feeling when you’re not even worthy of a single text reply, but my toes gotta stay tappin’

All good man, we all went through that stage. 🙂 Hang in there, look at this as something that could take a few years of investment to get a handle on. You’re like a 300lbs dude hitting the gym once or twice a week…it’s gonna take some time before you’re down to a normal weight.

Slow & steady. Learn to emotionally detach yourself from your results and analyze where you’re fucking up like an athlete watching footage of himself to figure out his sticking points and what to work on and taking advice from trainers on how to improve.

Hey man I think your text game might be fucked up. Understand that going from a makeout on a Friday to being propositioned to meetup for drinks on a tuesday is like trying to merge onto the highway while still in first gear. Spike her buying temp, develop some rapport and suavely shift gears into meeting up. I went thru a similar stumbling block a few months ago and Ripp, YaReally and a couple others helped me see the limitations in my strategy, which is very similar to yours. I made a compilation of the next texting advice into a word doc which you can download at the link below. Read that and the embedded PDF and then tell me if you didn’t learn anything. Best of luck my man.

I get conflicting advice on the text thing. I guess I thought I had fostered enough of a connection at the bar to be more aggressive and direct with my text approach.
Could be I need to spend more time “warming her up”, but I don’t want to fall into the trap of womanly texting games.

I completely understand. Please read the resources I linked you too though.

A lot of newbs think that engaging in women’s texting games is the antithesis of alpha and only to text in order to make plans.

I get that line of thought.

Expanding my competency with texting since October has helped me tremendously and I no longer feel like there isn’t a situation I can’t handle.

Confirm with me that you read those and I’ll link you to various one-liners I compiled to help you initiate, respond to shit tests, warm up a girl that has gone cold, things to text the first night you meet her and how to invite her out.

Mind you, I put hours into that document and string of one-liners but if you want to learn via trial and error and flakey numbers then go right ahead.

I read your document. I can see where I went wrong in most cases. A lot of it is me “assuming the sale” and trying to barrel through the comfort phase with a direct text. I think the reason for this is that I already went through those motions in person, so why be redundant and boring through text? Obviously this is the wrong mindset.

Yup. You’re starting over from 0 most of the time when you txt after the first meet so you have to build comfort/rapport and get her in state again. Even when you meet up, often she’ll be cold/nervous/reserved and you’ll have to start over AGAIN to get her back in state.

The positive way to look at it is that ya, you have to start over and that sucks, but 1) you’ve done it once before already so it’ll be easier this time, and 2) THIS time you already KNOW she’s attracted to you VS the first meet where you had to build that, so you’re going into a poker game knowing the other guys’ cards. All you have to do this time is unlock her a bit and let it happen, the flame is already burning you just have to throw some wood (lol) on it.

If all he got was the makeout after the first meet he jumped the gun too soon. You have to build comfort first unless you are running a fools mate. All MM right there straight up. Get MM and read read read, go out a little and read more…

I hit the jackpot in less than six hours, but there is an art to it. Not for the guy starting out. Even when you do, you end up getting all these weird texts back like “where are you from” “what is your favorite color” ect. She tries to bond if you hit it too quick, is what that is. Take it to the comfort stage if you really want quality.

Then I get her outside for a smoke, number close, kiss close, I’m on my way.

Everything that 60 & Heartiste were writing about in the main piece – and now what you’ve said here – seemed to indicate that you guys were talking about a bar/nightclub/disco/dancehall scene, wherein you were trying to make your moves on these chicks.

[I make my moves on chicks in normal life, but that’s a topic for another day…]

Anyway, for my entire life – going back to freaking Junior Dadgum Highschool – I have never been at a party or a club or a bar where the freaking music was being played at less than 110dB – and you and she would have to have been freaking lip readers in order to have “heard” anything that was being said.

Seriously – how in Hades do you guys carry on “conversations” in these environments?

Heck, it’s getting to where you can’t even talk to chicks at wedding receptions anymore, because some freaking cover band thinks that they have to jack it up like Def Leppard in order to play an idiotic sappy-assed Whitney Houston tune.

Even if you SCREAM AT THE BEEYOTCH, and she SCREAMS RIGHT BACK AT YOU, it would be damned near impossible to understand what was being said.

Just curious…

[But, like I said above, I make my moves on chicks in normal life, where you can actually carry on a civil conversation, and be witty and clever and sexy and maybe even a little dark and dangerous, so that it makes an actual difference what you have to say…]

Don’t get elitist, it’s just a different skill-set. Don’t worry about it if what you’re doing works for you and you’re happy with that, but understand that the club environment’s obstacles can be overcome and you can gain certain reference experiences gaming there that you generally don’t in different venues.

(and yes, I’ve done day game and I know what you’re talking about, but I personally prefer night game despite the challenge…or rather because of the challenge lol)

It’s just different skills. At a nightclub, you can guide the girl’s head next to yours, so that her ear is directly next to your mouth, so she can hear what your saying. Likewise, when she’s speaking, just position her head so that her mouth is close to your ear.

Also, there’s a lot more kino, like grooming her / sliding her hair behind her ear, grabbing her at the hip, looking her over hungrily. And you definitely try to isolate her to a table / corner as far away from speakers as possible. You have an excuse built in — “Hey, let’s go talk over there, so we can actually hear each other ”

And you jump into fun heavy attraction routines as quick as possible in a nightclub / loud bar. Instead of Roosh Day Bang-type rambling, you go straight into Routines Manual stories, like the eyebrow test, the lying game, or thumb wrestling.

Don’t worry about it if what you’re doing works for you and you’re happy with that, but understand that the club environment’s obstacles can be overcome and you can gain certain reference experiences gaming there that you generally don’t in different venues.

I’m not dissing “night” game – I’m just wondering [and have always wondered, going back to freaking Junior Dadgum Highschool] how it can even exist in the first place.

I honestly don’t know how you “talk” to a chick if you’re in some establishment with a liquor license and a dance floor and a sound system which is blaring hip hop noise at 110dB.

I understand the idea of a meat market, and I understand body language, and I understand raw, visceral [almost innate] sexual attraction, but there’s supposed to be an intellectual aspect of game [where you prove what a clever, cunning and devious conversationalist you are] which simply cannot exist in that environment [unless, like I said, both you and she are lip-readers].

Look, if you can score hot chicks with nothing more than the puppy dog eyes and the ass-rubbing and the hair-pulling and the gimmicky clothes/hairstyles/tattoos/whatever, then more power to you.

But I don’t know that I’d call it “game”.

[Cue the empiricists: It doesn’t matter what you want to be called “game”, all that matters is whether it works! Blah blah blah…]

Did you actually read the post these comments are appended to? 60’s whole game is less talk, more escalation and holding the tension.

Even if you never enter a club or bar in your whole life, and have masterful conversation skills, effective game is still 60% facial expressions, eye contact, body language, kino, escalation, … . For most guys, I don’t think it matters much what they say, so long as they don’t say something that kills the seduction (as so many do). Clever conversation is good if you’re screening for clever girls, counterproductive otherwise.

You’re letting the club overwhelm you. Think outside the box you’re in. Tyler made a similar post as you back before The Game, where he was frustrated by nightclubs and hated them and was like “how the fuck am I supposed to talk in these places???” but now it’s almost exclusively where he games.

Some tips because I do primarily nightclub game (also bars, pubs and lounges but I like nightclubs the most because the girls dress the hottest there):

1) Lead her to a quieter part of the club to talk. There’s always a quieter part of the club where people can chill, whether its just away from the dance floor or in a back or upstairs/downstairs room, or a patio.

2) Listen to the music they play in clubs during the day when you’re listening to tunes at work. When you know the songs, your brain tunes them out more at the bar and they aren’t as in-your-face as when you’ve never hear them before. Plus then you get to know what the loud and quiet parts of the songs are so you don’t get cut off mid-sentence.

3) Learn to project your voice, speaking from the diaphragm. Google advice for singers on this, you can project your voice a lot louder than you think you can, without shouting, but it takes some practice.

4) Learn to read lips a bit, either by spending a lot of time having conversations in loud enviros or watching TV on a low volume or mute.

5) Avoid live-music venues, like pubs and clubs with bands, because they turn the music up retardedly high. But don’t let your brain convince you that all night venues are like that, MOST nightclubs are only loud on the dance floor, but the other 80%+ of the club is fine, but if you’re not a fan of nightclubs your brain will extrapolate a few bad dance floor and live music venue experiences as representative of all night venues.

6) Go out to these places a lot and you’ll get used to the chaos and music and it won’t overwhelm you.

7) I go to a ton of different venues and the nightclubs that are legit impossible to talk/hear in aren’t that common. There’s maybe 1 or 2 max in most cities. I just don’t go to those venues (unless I want to work on pure physical game). But even in those venues, nightclubs tend to be large enough that there’s some part of it you can lead a girl to, to talk and be all intellectual. It would be bad for business for a nightclub to be designed with no cooling down quieter areas for all the people who get dragged there by friends for bday and as designated drivers and prople with sensitive hearing and for girls to yap to eachother about stupid shit etc. If you haven’t been to nightclubs much, you probably won’t even notice these areas because your brain is overwhelmed by stimulus and stereotyping the place. Next time you’re at a club, make a conscious effort to walk around it and find where the quieter areas are, and take note of where the speakers are and what direction they’re facing etc. You’ll be surprised, it’s very rare to find a club where there’s legit nowhere quieter that you can have a conversation in.

Really the live-music pubs are the toughest venues in my opinion. I long for a day when I see a live band who’s instruments aren’t so jacked up in volume that my ears ring and I can’t even hear the singer’s lyrics lol

I usually text a girl a couple times after I get her number if I meet her while I’m out drinking. They always respond at this time. The brief flirty text exchange gets her accustomed to texting with you and goes a long way a few days later when you try to get her out. Just don’t go overboard.

in da oldenee olden dayz one had 2 wine and dine and wine and dine and meet the parentz as tehre was a dad with a shotgun who made sure his duaghter would serve the moses homer code of honor instead of her butt and gina tinizgzlzlzozoozozozo

in da new dayz the best strategy is to have her see your loststas cockasz before you even say a word, as if you speak, she will think you are a beta, and her butt and gina won’t go tinzgzlzlzlzolzoozozoozooz

alpha fucks and beta bucks
dat is how we roll
da butthexting cockass we fucks and sucks
and in our anuthes it doth deosul
alpha fucks and beta bucks
it is da way of da fed
to transfer assetss to dose who butthext
cuckold dose who pay for our bread
beta bucks and alpha fucks
it’s what day teach us we;’re entitled too
da assetts from betas we plucks
after da alphas desol us through our hole for poo
lzozozlzzolzlzlzlz
cuckold da betas cockhold da alphas
datsz what day taught us in mba grad school
as da feiisnsits see no truth nor justice in their laws
and say da great books for menz was all fools.
yes, yes, i did very good on my gmats
dey bernenakifed my soul away, left me with cats

1. You cannot overstate the importance of touching. Sometimes I think that girls get attracted to guys simply on the basis of who has the balls to touch them the most. Has to be done in the right way of course, but that isn’t hard.

2. You cannot overstate the importance of sheer persistence. Unless you are a celebrity, your success rate with hot girls (the 8-10 range) is going to be low, no matter what the level of your game.* Accept this fact and keep going until you find the girl who is interested in you.

*Hot girls want the whole package, so the higher up the food chain you are aiming, the more you have to find that particular girl who is into you as an individual.

I’d be surprised if Philip Seymour Hoffman doesn’t crush it actually. He pulls off the alpha vibe just fine in Mission Impossible 3, Before the Devil Knows You’re Dead, and The Master. And in his personal life, he’s a rich and famous actor who, at 45, hasn’t gotten married.

[Heartiste: Agreed. PSH may be ugly, but he’s got coolasfuck vibe all over him. Plus, chicks dig male fame more than they dig anything else.]

Don Draper has 3 kids too. No community property / alimony in CA if you aren’t officially married, so his philandering ways get a pass if his GF wants to see more than child support (assuming she could wrest custody, should he want it, from a rich as fuck dude who can hire the best lawyers).

Or maybe he’s a devoted family man… but men with that many options rarely stay completely on target.

i’m 20 years younger than philip seymour hoffman, but i know several girls who think he is totally hot (myself included). it’s all his demeanor. a lot of girls my age also seem to be attracted to jeff goldblum, at least more than you’d expect… i think it’s their perfect blend of confidence, ‘coolness’, creepiness/sleaziness, and b-list level fame

Perhaps a silly triviality, but unless your vision is 20/20, get lenses, glasses or lazik. Blurred vision puts you at a distinct disadvantage wrt both eye contact game and the ability to discern approach-or-not within 3 seconds.

Still, glasses can be good if you want to practice at a more difficult level.

Whenever I don’t ant to be bothered at a bar but just observe, I wear my glasses and, if possible, dress just below the normal way men at the bar dress.

Then, if I see something I REALLY want to approach, I have to work doubly hard.

Try it for a few weeks straight, and then go out on a Thurs-Sat dressed up and with contacts in. Your game will have improved so much, and now your looks, that its easy to break a dry spell like that.

Funnily enough, the times I try to hole up without being noticed like this can sometimes be the times I can’t fend them off with a stick. Doesn’t happen often, but when it does, wow. Bitches really hate it when they notice your aloofness, and they become aggressive.

Another way to project major aloofness is to read from a book at a bar (done on quiet nights, not when its packed). Women WILL NOT leave you alone to read. Some get personally offended by it, and try to prove their sexiness by hitting you.

I actually found glasses fucked my shit up, with both girls and guys (like getting a bartender’s attention) at the bar, because there were suddenly a bunch of angles where I couldn’t make eye-contact with people or where they couldn’t make it with me or in general read my thoughts/sub-communications via my eyes because the frames got in the way. The glasses basically forced me to look straight on at everyone at all times like its my first trip to Times Square and I’m fascinated by everything and everyone lol no room for subtle corner-of-the-eye side glances and opening with “why are you doing something crazy?” bemused glances and lingering eye-contact as I turn my head away like our connection is so powerful I can’t tear my eyes away, etc. All I’d have is a little tunnel of vision right in front of me.

I was actually REALLY surprised by how much of a difference it made. You can learn to work around it once you understand the disadvantage it’s giving you (so if you’re stuck with glasses, don’t stress it too much, I know a few guys with glasses who do just fine), but I had been considering LASIK for a while, and going out with glasses for a few months and noticing how much less “social power” I was wielding around without eye-contact was the tipping point for me. Got LASIK and it was the best $5k spent in my life!

Random comment: Recently hung out with my old wing for a weekend. He got Lasik some years ago, initially praising the results. However, he told me that the Lasik has been deteriorating, which the docs told him was normal within some percent of standard deviation. He’s back to using optics. My brother is also now considering Lasiks. Really don’t know much at all about this subject. No point to this post, other than conversation, and intentional extension of good will. Hope your Lasiks holds, Ya. My boy certainly loved his while it lasted.

Ya, you’ll still naturally deteriorate, especially if you continue to treate your eyes shitty. I work in front of a CPU all day/night and I used to play videogames in pitch dark etc. so I was doing a lot of staring at bright screens. Now I don’t play videogames much and I use a screen dimming program while I work so it’s not so harsh. I’m 5+ years in and my vision is still awesome.

You can actually do eye exercises (cover one while you read a newspaper from just barely in focus range, then do that for the other, etc.) and strengthen your eyes naturally. I knew a guy in his 40s that did it and I thought he was bullshitting me till he started reading off license plates way in the distance that were just a blur to me till we got closer lol It’s slow and took him months or a year or some shit of daily exercises, but that’s the route I’m going to take if I notice my vision start to deteriorate now ’cause if I remember right I don’t think you can do Lasik a second time.

Tell your buddy to do some googling on eye strengthening exercises if he really hates his glasses, maybe they’ll help him out.

If your bro gets it done, tell him to follow the after-care therapy hardcore and err on the side of being TOO cautious. A lot of the fuck-up stories are from people who half-ass the after-care instructions and let their eyes dry out a bunch while they heal.

Stealing this for when I help people and they say thanks. I usually just say “no prob” or something but I like the positive vibe of this. Never know when saying that will stick in someone’s subconscious and encourage them to help someone else when they might normally have passed on the opportunity.

If you’re hitting the 3 date mark, you should have been pushing lots of kino and gotten back to her place/your place through sheer force of your attraction and comfort routines.

If she’s refusing your good excuses to be on the same couch/bed, like listening to a great new Sigur Ros album, watching a great Netflix movie you purposely mentioned early in the date, or playing Wii Sports, you’ve got problems.

Backstory:
He got my number from my colleague , met him in passing when he came to our firm…below is a recap of our text conversation which began last Saturday…I have agreed to go on a date with him this Friday….

Is this a Pick-up technique/Gaming? If so what is it called?

Him: What cha doing? It’s J.H (he does not mention how he got my number)
Me: Stuff
Him:…and things?
Me: Ya (at this point I am thinking…**hope he gets the hint..not interested** but then he replies
Him: That’s hardcore
Me: lol (Was not expecting this reply and genuinely LOL’d)
Him: Causing trouble tonight?
Me: nah, just putting notes together for a hearing on Monday
Him: What did they charge you with?
Me: lol you know I am a (Profession) right? Didn’t you get my number from (Co-worker)?
Him: Maybe you are a horrible (Profession) and they are charging you with negligence
Me: lol you are funny
Him: and also hot
Me: Maybe lol
Him: Are you a shark? (Probably referencing my profession)
Me: No…more of a little fish
Him: omg you are a piranha
Me: No! lol

So we texted more and eventually talked on phone and now I have a date with him. I am not sure if this is a specific PUA/Alpha frame technique but that’s how he managed to pretty much change my emotion from “bored/uninterested” to “intrigue/tingles”.

Seriously though, he’s got a strong frame, he’s assuming attraction, he’s playfully teasing, roleplaying, cocky/funny, etc. dude is doing everything right in terms of seduction and pushing through your bitch-shield, and you going from indifferent to interested is completely natural. Nothing registers as directly a routine from PUA material aside from his attitude, but the “and hot” response pings my radar as PUA material (I do the same “agree and escalate” thing when I get a compliment). If I had to guess I’d say he’s read some basic PUA shit, maybe watched a little DavidD Double Your Dating, but he’s internalized it and past the awkward incongruent stage and into the “make it” part of “fake it till you make it”. Or he’s just a Natural. Either way you’ll have fun on your date.

Some girls would go “well you know he’s gaming you so don’t go out with him!!!” but would you rather date a guy who gives up at your first unenthusiastic response because he’s so insecure about himself and just assumes a girl like you wouldn’t be into him, and mundanely asks you how your day is and details about your job instead of twisting your words around in a fun way that makes you laugh at being accused of committing crimes?

Of course not. And that’s why Game works. Just don’t fuck him on the first date or you’ll break King A’s heart lol

Everything you said. He is in his late thirties and wasn’t expecting that much wit and playfulness, when he started with “what are you doing”? I was like “oh here we go again, another mundane set of questions” so I already had my shield up ready to cut the convo short. I was completely disarmed with the “that’s hardcore” sarcastic reply. That’s why I love it here! at least now I can recognize game more clearly and make assessments…”making an informed choice” if you will. I cannot lie…it feels good😀

Exactly. And don’t let him pay for your meal either, that will break YaReally’s vicarious boner. Look out for your IOI’s and IOD’s and IUD’s. Keep it light on the RMT and ICE but don’t stand in the way if he wants to escalate kino or thermo or even hydro.

If I had to guess I’d say he’s read some basic PUA shit

Stop guessing, one-trick pony. You think the little Canadian elves are behind every successful pick up of the last ten years. Because field reports.

lol really? You’re down to just making fun of the terminology now? Is flinging poo next? Shouting “nuh-UH!!”? I thought you considered yourself an intellectual genius, c’mon man where’s the good stuff? RAZZMATAZZ!!!

Also PUA has spread pretty mainstream now. Probably a solid 40-60% of guys who are good with girls consciously know a few game concepts they’ve seen on shows like Keys to the VIP or via friends of friends who’ve read Game or via YouTube videos like Simple Pickup and a bunch of others. So it’s not unusual for a random lawyer to have studied a bit of game here in 2013.

You would know all this if you went out and interacted with other human beings lol

Not at all. I’m making fun of your worship of it. I’m criticizing the relentless effort to recruit down-on-their-luck guys into a cultish way of thinking rather than encouraging them into independence, improvisation, and artistry. Show a prodigy how to jazz solo, and shitcan the sheet-music-martinet shtick.

Pick-up happened before game. It occurs often without game. There are infinite gradations between textbook-PUA-student and natural. Getting the sexes together happens much more organically than you have allowed yourself to realize. Most guys just need a slight spinal adjustment to straighten out before instinct takes over. They don’t all need the full industry makeover. A great many men, in fact, know they should tease girls, be aloof, and act dominantly — as the future Mr. Olive demonstrated — before it was ever were turned into a Roman Numeral commandment. At the same time (since your will to misunderstand me is strong) don’t get me wrong: it’s great that the observations have been collected, collated, and codified by people like you.

The terminology is useful in limited doses and circumstances. Indulging a little dessert or booze isn’t a bad thing. It’s the dependency and the habit and the overdoing it that requires critique.

Anyway, you called me out by name because you wanted another public corrective. You have a healthy sense for when your bullshit starts straining credulity, except PUA Rule #282 requires you never acknowledge it. I’m cool with that, even if you can never be. Cheers, broham.

Now “pay it forward” to Falconer above and let him know that he’s missing the entire point if he’s going to prostrate himself before another man (including your awesome self) with apologetic admissions of “coming across like a bitch.”

So basically you’re saying a 30yo virgin should “just be yourself bro” and “you either have it or you don’t”.

Awesome, I’m certain that will help them. In the meantime I’ll continue providing a logical, thorough, step-by-step plan that thousands of other men have used, to help them reach a specific goal.

If I wanted to get in shape I would hire a personal trainer or ask guys who are in shape for advice. If I wanted I get rich I would study rich guys and ask for advice.

You are a cartoon character of wannabe manly stereotypes and I can guarantee that in real life you are neither rich, in shape, or have an admirable social or romantic life. Is thrusting beta because you have to put your dick in her? lol

It’s a misguided way of showing gratitude for their salvation. Understandable but ultimately counterproductive. Especially when they infect other men with it.

This a common problem between mentors and proteges. The allure of being glorified outweighs the more selfless attempt to make one’s students better than oneself. And that is exactly what Falconer contributed to, with applause from the guys who appointed themselves his mentor.

But look, I have broader ends than those obsessive micromanagers. If they were concerned about a fellow’s general advancement, they wouldn’t allow a recruit’s rebirth into manliness to become so dependent on idol-worship or any set of commandments — even if it did lead him to a couple scraps of trim. They would insist on the process of independence from day one: that’s what manliness is. However, their own sense of accomplishment is dependent on a set of rules itself applied to a narrow set of ends, so they have no idea what I’m talking about.

It matters how those “social and intellectual nectars” are drawn out. Did the student do it himself, or did he submit to a process that did it for him? The acceptance of Falconer’s early groveling indicates they don’t even understand the issue. If you teach a man by allowing his supplication, you aren’t helping him get out of his habit of supplication at all. You’re just directing his bad habits toward you, which feels great for you.

That’s why the over-the-top plaudits for PUA stars are so incongruous. If you have any pride or independence, you’re not going to chug such sloppy cock about another dude. Quiet, truthful respect does the job. Anything more is embarrassing to all parties. Because it’s wrong.

It’s like showing a kid how to swim while playing on his fear of the water. You have to insist on his developing confidence in himself so that he will be able to retain that confidence without your insistence.

“Yeah, sorry for coming across like a bitch.” You’re not a bitch. You were explaining your circumstances. Stop apologizing for your deficiencies and pour that energy into improvement. In fact, stop apologizing altogether. And never insult yourself. I’ll do plenty of that for you. Are recruits ever taught to say “Sorry, sir”? No, they say, “No excuse, sir” and then do penance.

Do not apologize to your drill instructors. Do not make the mistake of telling a drill instructor that you are sorry about something you did wrong. They are not interested in hearing it. [They] will eat you alive if you show such weakness.

“I’m letting my emotions get the better of me here.” If that were true, you wouldn’t have subjected yourself to our judgment in the first place. Emotionalism is a danger to be wary of, but stop overinterpreting a small lapse into a tragedy for which you must publicly debase yourself.

“It’s hard to shake that shitty feeling when you’re not even worthy of a single text reply.” Get used to “shitty feelings.” Just make them productive, and stop channeling them back into sorrow. It feels “shitty” when weakness is leaving the body. That’s a good thing, not anything to complain about. And quit fishing for pity like a beta orbiter. You are among men now.

Independence is for down the road. When a kid is learning to ride a bike, you put training wheels on it and eventually take them off and let go as he rides and he’s independent from there.

You’re either too short-sighted to understand that, or being deliberately obtuse because you get to hear yourself type more that way. Either way, you’re being silly and no one is swayed by your street-corner rambling.

lol you’re terrible at obscuring your profession. how dumb do you think these people are?

i, personally, love being a lawyer, at least the kind i am. i boss people around. people fear me. women melt in my presence. although, i’m not sure if that’s because of my profession or because of my disarmingly good looks…

Au contraire…Just making a conscious effort to not mention my profession (especially in real life, meeting new people etc) unless I absolutely have to. It is my way of trying to focus more on my feminine qualities as oppose to leading with what I do for a living. Before I took the red pill, it used to be one of the first things I will bring up in a new conversation. A lot of the guys I meet now will have no idea what I do until I have spoken to them for like three or four times post first meet. Today some guy was like “let me guess…you are an assistant” lol normally I will feel insulted but I feel like it means I am giving a less dominating vibe than I did months ago.

Also what I am learning about myself is…my preference would be to date and eventually settle down with a non-white collar kinda guy. I am just more attracted to hard working blue collar intelligent older men…a man’s man and I don’t want them to head for the door by leading with my kind of work!😀

yeah that’s my point I thought it was funny that you were attempting to be “coy” here by drawing obvious attention to your coyness and leaving broad hints to your profession in. Like you may even WANT people to know what you do even though you are redpilled enough to “know better.” Sure you could just say “nothing” or “work” and leave it at that but that would rob you. And further to my amusement you actually did the same thing in your texts with the young suitor. Thereby adding a meta level of appreciation to the whole affair. You need to work on hiding what you do better! As for me I just liking bragging

You are so right…thing is I am so subconsciously connected to what I do because I love it so much…to make a change to even subconsciously not bringing it up in first few conversations will take some work….baby steps I suppose!

“my preference would be to date and eventually settle down with a non-white collar kinda guy.”

You realize that the divorce rate for wife-more-educated-than-her-husband couples are staggering, right? Women want to marry smarter men, not the other way around. That’s why they marry older men, as older men give off the vibes of more experience, more knowledge, and more achievements in their profession/careers. When a woman has more education than her man, by middle-age she looks to unload him since she starts losing respect for him. Studies shows that women in their 40s who have more education than their husbands initiate divorce at higher rates than other women.

He’ll have to game you hard for him to be able to keep you happy once you get a little bit older and your tastes become more sophisticated than your muscular grease-monkey needs now. You’ll eventually want the clean-cut GQ man with a postdoctoral degree, not the construction worker, electrician, plumber, or body shop owner. Hey, maybe a police officer or fire fighter will do the trick, though? But I doubt it. These men have a high burnout rate and themselves end up unhappy and unfulfilled to have the mentality to game you. Only a fulfilled man has the mindset to focus on his wife as much as she needs him to.

Think about this real hard. And if you like the older man, time is ticking. You’re already 25, so what constitute an older man? 45? At that age, he’s already been married and has children form another woman, so you wouldn’t be his first wife and he might not want more children. His pessimism about women will be sky high too. Chances are he’ll want to have fun, not get re-married to a new ball and chain. That’s how women end up raising cats and not babies. You’re going about this all the wrong way.

Hilariously simple, even stupidly simple. I wonder where giggly girls (even *gasp* lawyers) get the idea they have any defense against this. ZOMG what happened?!?

Law school seems to be the place where most of my relatively smart (and some not-so-smart) but aimless student-friends ended up at, for lack of a driving purpose in life. It serves as a prestigious delaying mechanism that costs $150,000. They’re the last ones to realize how clever they really aren’t, what with the impressive sheepskin and post-nominal letters and all.

this is largely true. in fact, i’d wager that almost all law students’ answer to why they went to law school is a variation on one or more of the following: 1) because i like to argue; 2) because i always wanted to be a lawyer/my dad is a lawyer; and 3) because i got bored with my prior job/didn’t know what to do after graduating with an art degree/just finished teach for america.

lol i’m not keen on revealing personal details about myself, but i’ll just say i can relate about left-winged (i originally wrote “winded,” which i thought was funny enough to include as an aside) law schools

although, i would be remiss to point out that the latter half of your post is completely self-serving and self-congratulatory. this is, of course, only natural. and, for what it is worth, not everyone defines intelligence as the ability to wax philosophical about solipsism. Most people (99.995%) do not care about such things. One of the things that I’ve learned in my practice is how to TONE DOWN all of that extraneous “smartness” shit so that juries and (more importantly) judges know what the fuck i’m talking about. not only do they not care about and not understand smart guy stuff, it actually ACTIVELY works to your disadvantage to try to showcase the full-extent of your intellectual prowess. for instance, i remember during a trial early in my career, i, for some reason, decided to say that a deceased person had “shuffled off this mortal coil.” i thought it would make for an interesting and potentially powerful verbal flourish but the jury looked at me like i had stabbed them in their respective brains. i eventually learned, and perhaps someday you will too, that being a braggart about your intelligence is actually a sign of your insecurity and reflects poorly on YOU, not on anyone else.

From my exposure to the minions of law school students/ and subsequent lawyers, I really do not like most straight male lawyers….they .are more than likely to be obnoxious, pompous, arrogant and extremely pretentious. I also think it is funny that Matt mentioned that they think they are clever…..a lot of them really do.

When I attended the professional school mixers (lawyers, doctors, engineers, architect students all came together for once a month parties etc), it was interesting to watch my male classmates recoil in their pompous/obnoxious shells and allow the Med and Eng students to just dominate…but god forbid we go to a place where people gave a sh*t about you being a law student…like a sub par middle class bar/lounge then they once again become the wanna-be somebodies. Ugh, just thinking about it now still irks me. I found it was mostly the short, chubby and unattractive guys too who had these bizzare personalities. Its like they were probably nerds or social outcasts in high school who got bullied and now have these grand illusions that somehow becoming a lawyer is going to earn them respect. For some reason the good looking guys (which was not that many) were pretty decent and most of them were chill kinda dudes. I mean talk about taking the Napoleon complex to staggering heights :S

Right, well said. I was talking about the type of student attracted to law school. It really does draw the “I’m smart, but wtf should I do now?” types who want to extend their school career for no reason (and who haven’t followed the siren song into humanities grad schools) because they’re good at the school thing and want further prestige for it.

Law school is a catch-all for that type of ambitiously aimless post-grad because the idea of being an attorney is respectable — think of the three original “professions.” What their matriculation has to do with loving the law or living the life doesn’t seem to occur to many of them. It’s just one more accomplishment to pursue, and then they find themselves lawyers.

Most of my childhood and college friends went into law. No, flashy “intellectual prowess” is not a prerequisite, and I imagine that the fantasy of “showcas[ing]” it would be corrected right quick. The best lawyers I know are not clever, they’re hard workers. Like anything else.

Now that you explained it further….I see what you mean and I agree for the most part (you have to ‘dumb’ it down sometimes for me!) I also have a business deg but did not want to pursue tha after the undergrad level. I was a ‘smart’ kid but I also did way too much pot during my first deg and just didn’t have the brain power to continue advancing my math/analytical skills in finance so I switched to law school…lsat sounded more easy to write lol. Luckily I can intersect both my finance and law background at work. But you are right…..LS was easy enough to get into and doing a post grad in any of the humanities was out of the question….in my family you were either an entrepreneur, doctor, lawyer or engineer lol. Med school was also not feasible (I did not feel like putting in the mental energy to study for my MCAT/Scared I will fail it/Didn’t even like hospitals)

yep. and when many/most they find themselves lawyers, they’re devastated because they never fully considered what they’d be doing other than being “rich and important.” doctors and engineers have somewhat similar motivations, but i suspect they are more, say, purpose-driven toward their respective careers. lawyers are typically a meandering, uninspired bunch.

nix the “they” after many/most. and, for clarity, i do not mean to suggest lawyers are rich and important. most are not. many abandon the practice in favor of other professions specifically because the reality didn’t conform to whatever their hazily conceived notion of what being a lawyer would be like.

I have to admit….the window to my heart has always been my tickle bone. I always fell for men who could make me laugh until I cried. So yes, making me laugh is half the battle for me unfortunately. Note, I did not agree to the date until he CALLED me and gave me 8 reasons why I should say yes (which made me laugh uncontrollably as well). Plus he is taking me out to my favourite sushi restaurant. A girl’s gotta eat!😉

She doesn’t understand the meaning of putting up a fight when she see a shiny long hard dick nearing 110 degree angle. All dicks are welcomed – hardly challenging. She is a dime dozen to Whorefinder. He’s had plenty of those in his long whore-finding career.

Oh, let her have her fun; she is ruined already – tasted too many cocks and did too many drugs. She is at a point of no return. There is only one way from here on – forward – enjoying more cocks until father time stops her.

I like raining on her parade.🙂 She seems so easy to poke. I mean, who gets all impressed by a guy on the phone trying to game you before you have even seen him? He might end being a complete waste of time, and the only thing going for him is his wisecracks, which she seems impressed by??? The only thing positive about this is her extracting sushi from him. I hope she enjoys that at least, in the absence of cock. Something tells me he isn’t that much of an alpha and she’ll be disappointed.

Can’t spend time at zumba, hurt my leg at spinning. Got to take it easy for a few days. It just as well, the weather is nasty out.

“I like raining on her parade”
Yawn…whatever gives you excitement my little Grandma E-thug…
I ignored/will continue to ignore most of your rants because you are the definition of a psychopath and just not worth the iota of energy it would take to respond to your rants. How do you respond to crazy? I bet you feel pleasure (as admitted) with your false sense of vilification and/or perceived superiority. Good on you. Continue riding my cl*t if you are so inclined…this will be my only reply to you. I know, you have been craving some sort of response from me all day. You’re Welcome Luv.

Can’t spend time at zumba, hurt my leg at spinning. Got to take it easy for a few days.

That’s a relief. I thought for a moment there you were going to spin yourself right into outer space.

You red-pill sisters should stop squabbling and get each other’s back. This isn’t a zero-sum game. She is putting the shared principles of this site into practice. If in fact her date is “a complete waste of time” and he “isn’t that much of an alpha,” he does show some potential, and a mousy ballcutting barrister might be just what the doctor ordered to inspire him to greatness. If there aren’t enough alphas in the world, women are to blame.

Further, sluttiness compromises us all in this broken SMP. You create hysterical vibes when you throw around claims of chaster than thou.

We both seem to have strong aversions for certain types. Think of it this way, you have YaReally and I have Olive, although to be honest, Yareally seems much more fun, not to mention honest about who he is and what he’s all about. Olive, on the other hand, is just an annoying little twat who thinks she finally saw the light when she is still in the dark, lol.

“You red-pill sisters should stop squabbling and get each other’s back.”

Wrong assumptions, dear:

First, I am not a red-pill swallower. I’ve always been conservative, I have always had the same political ideas, and I have always had the same notions about men and women. I may have become slightly more emboldened in recent months after Obama’s second win, but overall my core beliefs haven’t changed.

Second, in contrast, Olive declared that she has taken the red pill. I laugh at her when she says that. Hell, her pill ain’t red. She doesn’t have the faintest idea how this pill looks or what it does. She is still acting like a clueless feminist when she insists she’s been in only 3 LTRs and that her last LTR left her and in order to get over him she started dating a 19-year old that doesn’t have any potential according to her, but he’s so cute (also according to her) that she can’t help herself but go out with him (meaning sleep with him). So no, she is not my red-pill sister.

Third, I don’t side with someone because they are of the same sex. Maybe that’s something you do, but I find that extremely shallow and not a good enough reason to stick with someone. Instead, I like to side with people I agree with and admire. Therefore, I don’t care if you are male or female, young or old, white or black, Joo, Christian, or Muslim. If I think you are right and we have shared values, I’ll side with you. The key is shared values, not whether or not you’re the same sex or have the same religion.

How is that? Don’t we call women like her slutty feminists? She is the antithesis of the desirable woman according to this site. Therefore, she is not implementing any of the principals of this site. Normally, I wouldn’t care, as there are many women here who admit to being sluts, but at least they don’t declare themselves consumers of the red pill. That’s the difference between them and Olive, and that’s the reason I find her completely hypocritical.
__________________

“If there aren’t enough alphas in the world, women are to blame.”

At least we agree on this point. And it’s women like Olive who open their legs too fast to inspire sexual polarity in males. Men need a challenge to feel their manliness develop and grow like a strong immovable trunk. Feminist behavior, whether stepping on and emasculating men or giving them pussy too fast without a challenge, ruins masculinity and decreases attraction for women.
_______________________

“You create hysterical vibes when you throw around claims of chaster than thou.”

Well, I don’t do casual sex, so I am a lot more discriminating than she is. I definitely would not have rocked a cradle. I like men who are older than me and are better than me in all aspects, except looks. That kind of takes teenager boys off the table for me. Sorry, Olive.

But honestly, I wouldn’t have lashed out at her if she weren’t so fucking hypocritical and annoying. Her moronic replies of lozozlzozlzoz to every comment sounds like she is a girl in the midst of skipping school for the afternoon. Very juvenile and lacking depth.
________________________________

“So come together, right now, over me.”

LOL! You fucking wish. You got Eliot for that, hun. He’s awaiting you in a parallel universe with another chap. Together you can do your 3-some, my not so wholesome moral-equivalence man. See, I may not mind a man’s playa status, but spiritually and mentally he has to be pure.

You pussy. Again, literally praying for other men to take care of your confrontations for you.

Greg Eliot wasn’t modded. That’s not this site’s style. If he were frozen out, dozens of others would be too, and this place would turn into an echo-chamber tomb like so many insecure, faggot websites do.

And on the off-chance he has been shut out of here, I’d ask him to contact me either at my e-mail king1xa, ya****.com or through some other manosphere site we may have in common.

Greg Eliot is a piece of shit, and you even thinking about his sorry ass is as lame as you and your gibbering. I hope he was booted out and stays out. The number of comments is cut by half without his inanities so we love the quiet. How could you even miss him? Are you out of your mind?

“some other manosphere” sites? He is not interested in the manosphere, can’t you see that? He had nothing to say about male-female relations. All he did is stir useless trouble.

I try hard to understand urchins like you, but I just can’t relate. Why would you get so exercised over someone’s ability to post? It’s not even a scroll-wheel thing. It bothers you if somebody out there expresses himself contrary to your opinion?

The more roused peons like you get, the more of a compliment it is to people like Eliot. He is obviously doing it well enough to inspire your unsolicited reaction, whereas a truly innocuous challenge wouldn’t even rise to the level of notice, much less require indifference. And you can’t even manage indifference.

When are sniveling little complainers like you going to realize that you aren’t rallying people to your side so much as broadcasting your weaknesses when you peek your little heads out of your little holes like precious prairie dogs?

Matt, Eliot was a complainer too. He constantly complained about NiteLily and Jason’s right to post. He showed himself weak and spineless by doing that, not to mention a hypocrite. Not shedding a tear about his absence. You shouldn’t either!

Funny, I’ve tussled semantically for months with that Grand Dragon, and yet you call me a “pussy” for feeling annoyed.

Here’s an analogy: A man is standing at the entrance of a wonderful grocery store. The man is spewing insane, paranoid, hatefully a priori comments about all manner of ethnicities. The store is fantastic and draws people from hundreds of miles. You have to pass the man to get into the store, but the man won’t shut up or go away, and pesters everybody entering.

The man: Greg Eliot.
The store: Chateau Heartiste.

Just hoping the manager sees, that’s all. And just because Eliotlicks YOUR ass doesn’t make him decent.

And once you stroll/scroll past this posited homeless guy, then what’s your prob? Is it okay that thwack is being censored too?

Anyway, you misconstrued by point. If somebody is bothering you — but entertaining others — take it up with him personally. Don’t pray like a frightened girl for a white knight to come and fix your problem for you. Don’t moan about how wrong people are to be entertained by someone you can’t stand. GBFM’s popularity perplexes me, I find him repetitive, shallow, and annoying, but the fuck do I care if his deliberately impenetrable gibberish scratches a certain kind of dude’s scrotum? More power to him.

I don’t let haters annoy me on this site or anywhere. There are plenty of them and they are more persistent and more ubiquitous than your fantasy homeless example. If the place ceases to be valuable to me, I do what I can to shape it up or I move on. Conflict makes for a lively arena. What wouldn’t you do to get a good-humored left-winger/feminist in here to provoke and to take a punch and to stick around despite the vilification? I think you have the chops to play that role, and I honestly can’t fathom being so frustrated by your stubborn errors and lousy assumptions that I’d literally pray to God you get censored.

Jason, I visited some Neo-N sites recently and I watched a few H (as in the Führer of Germany) documentaries and I have to tell you that many of Matt’s Beloved’s expressions come from these sources. That proves how deep-steeped he was in Nuzi lore, speak, and rhetoric.

Some of the things the Beloved used to spew, I never heard before. I never heard such expressions and beliefs. I never heard so many anti-Joo words and jargon. To be honest, I do remember a lot about H from school, but I forgot about all the blood libels he and his cohorts used to hurl at the Jooz so that the population would hate them and become an accomplices to their murder. I forgot all the fucked up reasons for murdering the Jooz, so I had to watch some of these documentaries and hear H say it in his fervent fanatical speeches, which gave me the creeps. So many of his speeches sound exactly like the Beloved’s – in fact, word for word. The Beloved used to cite the same grievances, the same vilification, the same slander, and the same lies about the Jooz. There is no question about it; the Beloved was a most zealous, enthusiastic, and passionate Nuzi . Reading and watching this material recently confirmed it for me without a doubt. I wonder why Matt misses him so much.

You play a good game, BUT remember, you are only repeating what I used to tell your beloved when he used to complain in every post that CH should censor me and Jason because we were challenging him and his disgusting opinions, and because he never had any honest argument that could challenge us. That’s why one comment used to launch a 1000 replies, as I once pointed out – because your beloved couldn’t admit defeat – until the last comment would contain only one inane line from him. The best he could do was like a frightened little boy ask for our censoring. No, he didn’t like diversity. Like all weasel/leftists/fringe fascist/weak losers , he wanted censorship of whom he couldn’t control, while we never asked for his censoring, no matter how vomit-worthy his comments were. I find it completely distasteful that you are so bothered by his absence.

Jason has it spot on. He especially hated Jason because Jason was appalled by some of your beloved’s hateful spewage for which you are so very nostalgic. Yuck!

I suggest you stop crying over a would be J-killer. It’s unbecoming for a sophisticated man such as yourself, and the fact you compare his evil rhetoric to something as harmless as that of GBFM’s means you are morally bankrupt. I’m disappointed in you. It’s hard to have fun and play with someone who thinks a man who sticks up for H’s actions and calls them justified, is on the same level of someone who makes jokes about women’s behavior in modern society. Please, you need to reevaluate your moral clarity. I’m applaud you are even saying these things.

he used to complain in every post that CH should censor me and Jason because we were challenging him and his disgusting opinions, and because he never had any honest argument that could challenge us.

Maybe he did. I counted once or twice. Most of the time he asked that he himself be modded if he ever talked about you again. Which was characteristically laugh-out loud funny.

Anyway, what’s your point? I didn’t share that strategy of his, and I disagreed with much of what he said. I still think banning and censorship is weak. What’s more, you are protesting way too much. You exaggerate how scandalous Eliot is as a very hysterical means of expressing your asinine dudgeon. The truth is, Greg is witty and learned and has strong opinions I often agreed with. When I didn’t, I appreciated his style no matter the substance. Style goes a long way. It’s often how brothers get along without killing each other over trivia and testosterone. You wouldn’t know. You’re too busy getting cunty with your sisters to prove something to yourself.

We both seem to have strong aversions for certain types. Think of it this way, you have YaReally and I have Olive, although to be honest, Yareally seems much more fun…

Is it his chill overuse of “lol” that makes him so funtastic?

Bitch, please. I have zero “aversion” to any internet “type,” as the medium makes caricatures of us all. I don’t hold grudges. I don’t act as though every contrary word requires my attention. I make corrections where I see them and where I have a chance to be effective. The very last thing I would do is call for or applaud someone’s banning. Ignorance doesn’t exercise me: if it did, I would never have go to Zumba or spinning. I’d just turn on Bravo or E! or look out my window. Stupidity is pandemic. Online crusades are not my bag.

This is the problem with your half-retarded/half-ovarian harassment schedule. You have misunderstood the gathering principle of this forum. It isn’t to make the world safe for your screechy conservative screeds. It is largely to get away from them. But even I wouldn’t ban an attention whore like you from the men’s club here. I have known and broken plenty of shrikes like you, and you’re all filled with the same marshmallow center. Unlike a real men’s club, it is simply not worth excluding hecklers and tampon-wavers online. We are all daimônic here, only semi-substantive to each other. You are as real to me as I allow you to be.

I think 60’s advice is generally pretty solid, especially the role model tidbit. I always frame myself in the sort of Chuck Bass mold – dangerous, dark clothes, subtle hints at drug use or risky behavior, raspy voice, etc. I suppose it helps that I come from a wealthy family and am handsome (literally, had a girl last weekend tell me – “You’re face is beautiful. Do you know that? You’re like a character from a film…”, but I do think it’s important to keep these characters in mind when acclimating one’s mindset to a new or unexperienced situation (For example, I ask myself, what would a Carver or Hemingway protagonist do?)

I guess my problem of late has been that my friends who are female, typically, high status catty girls who wear black and do coke that I’ve banged in the past, will start giving me shit for talking to other girls (usually petite, very feminine, and generally simple girls – the type who wear polka-dot dresses and play Vampire Weekend at house parties), because I “should be doing better” or that I “belong to the dark side” and will destroy that girl, etc, etc. This has actually happened to me the last three times I was picking up girls, each one of whom was ready to go home with me. I ended up bowing out to the pressure and blowing the girls off to go drugs in bathroom or something.

I’m not sure if this rooted in jealousy on my friend’s part or that because they used to sleep with me they expect higher standards from me. If anyone has any experience with this, I’d welcome the advice.

To be fair though, I’m not really that concerned, more curious than anything else. I opened a set last weekend at a house party and within 10 minutes a drunk girl blurts out, “Why aren’t you making out with the three of us right now?”

lol’ed at the humblebrag too. In all seriousness regarding your question tho:

1) in life, other people will try to determine your values for you and what you’re “allowed” to do, based on their perception of you. Are you some dark bad boy who bangs vampire chicks? Stay away from those sweet girl-next-door girls! Are you some computer nerd? Don’t talk to girls or try to improve yourself just be happy playing Warcraft and dying alone! Are you a good-looking rich guy? Don’t marry the average 6 who treats you good! Are you a short guy? Don’t hit on those tall girls!

If you want to get more in-depth, your breaking out what they consider acceptable (based on their own label of you) forces them to re-evaluate their own identities which their ego can struggle with and lash out at you for causing it. ie – a girl thinks she only sleeps with Nice Guys, then she finds out her boyfriend is banging a bunch of chicks on the side. Now her own identity has to be questioned because she slept with a Player, but her identity is that she only sleeps with Nice Guys. So either she has to accept that her identity must be wrong which opens a floodgate of questions and self-doubts (do I like Players despite other women telling me not to? am I a bad judge of character when I thought I was good? were my other BFs Players and I’m just stupid? I always believed Players only sleep with sluts so if he’s a Player am I a slut?), and she’ll often brainwash herself with cognitive dissonance and hamster-spinning to avoid having to answer all those questions and re-evaluate herself and her identity because most people, women especially, are completely self-unaware and are encouraged not to really know themselves or dig deep…or she’ll have to shame, insult, threaten, embarrass, etc you into behaving in the manner she expects you to so that her Identity can remain in-tact.

So your previous girls are subconsciously thinking “but I would never sleep with a guy who’d fuck THAT type of girl, so he can’t fuck them, I will try to deter him from it so that the formula of “I only bang guys of this type” isn’t fucked with”. If their frame is stronger, or you’re henpecked by a bunch of them at once so their combined frame is stronger, you’ll pass on the polka-dot girl and go do drugs in the bathroom. Don’t feel bad, you’re young so your frame isn’t solid yet and girls (especially hot ones) develop extremely strong frames and are able to steamroll over most men.

At the end of the day the key is to be rock solid in your beliefs, actions, etc. instead of letting them away you. You are the oak tree and they’re the skittering little squirrels, you should be unaffected by their opinions because your validation of your actions and desires should come from inside and following your core Freudian Id, not from externally pinging off others to determine “is what I’m doing okay?”

A good scene I like to refer to in Californication is at the 4:20 mark in this clip:

When she asks why and the guy is just like “because the words left my mouth.” That’s the only justification you need for going after the girls you want. You don’t have to qualify your decisions to anyone, especially other girls.

2) The main difference between now and your 30s is that now your frame is weak and you still do stuff you don’t really want to do because you cave to badgering and social pressure and external validation. By your 30s you’ll have enough life experience that your frame will be unshakeable. And yes, you’ll get laid like a motherfucker then lol

I got a glorious man-boner over how dead-on perfect a summary this bit is:

“Core psychological difference between alpha and beta males:

Alphas pursue hot, dirty sex, and accept that relationships could be a consequence of a successful pursuit.

Betas pursue loving, affectionate relationships, and accept that sex could be a part of a successful pursuit.”

I’m stealing that definition for when I have to explain this shit to Beta friends. It’s absolutely perfect and describes my Beta and Alpha buddies mentalities toward women and seduction totally accurately. The Alphas are thinking “How can I get in her pants without having to do that gay relationship shit?” and the Betas are thinking “I guess if I have to have sex with her I will but I’d really just be happy cuddling with her and holding hands while we walk a puppy-dog” and it affects all their sub-communications when they’re interacting with women.

60 appeared on the scene relatively recently (compared to the old school guys) so I don’t know much about his method except that he gets referenced a lot in some PUA circles so it’s probably solid shit.

Will read and comment on the rest of this article later, was just skimming and that bit popped out and I wanted to suck CH’s cock quick lol

The betas will inherit the Earth. So the relevant question is, what’s the best way for a beta to actually achieve their romantic goals? (The people who “succeed” by changing their goals will be replaced, in the not-so-long run, by the descendants of those who do not.)

I got a glorious man-boner over how dead-on perfect a summary this bit is:

“Core psychological difference between alpha and beta males:

Alphas pursue hot, dirty sex, and accept that relationships could be a consequence of a successful pursuit.

Betas pursue loving, affectionate relationships, and accept that sex could be a part of a successful pursuit.”

”””””””””
yea that makes sense
take a step further with extreme confidense and you know that every time you have sex with a bitch she will want a relationship to include marriage to include having your kids and not wanting child support but that will not mean that YOU want her in that way because it was just a fuck to you.

I have a challenge for you scray dog. The quote below is from YR. Read the PDF that is linked but just read 10 pages a day. Skip the Ross Jeffries and the part about the cube.

If you do 10 pages a day for 90 days you should be good assuming you’re going out. If you want more pertinent material to your question (although MM collabo is solid) then read the archives here at the heartiste.

“YaReally
Ya, RSD’s video articles are great, specifically Tyler’s. Watch his whole archive of videos for a bunch of great stuff. His work is pretty much head of the pack in terms of progressing pickup as an art-form.

Same time though, I got into the community in the old-school heavy tactics days and I think having a grounding in the old-school stuff underneath all the new “be shapeless like water” stuff helps a lot. Mystery Method was solid gold, but it’s a looooong read/watch. If you can handle that, great, but if not then I’d recommend LoveSystem’s “Magic Bullets” which is like a really condensed “only the important stuff” version of MM.

Paul Janka’s “How to get laid in New York” is a good read (free PDF file) just to get a different perspective (he’s a natural and he does day-game in a really busy fast-paced city, he has some interesting takes on how he games).

If you Google you can find “The Tyler Digest”, but I’d actually recommend this one instead or as well:

David DeAngelo’s ‘77 Laws of Success with Women and Dating’ is
It’s got a bunch of old-school writing from the top guys.

That’s enough to get you laid like crazy if you go out and practice and apply it lol The only messageboards I can recommend are sedfast (fasterseduction) and LoveSystems’ board. The RSD boards are too full of retarded kids who are getting thrown out of bars, and other boards are too full of pussy “don juans” who don’t get laid.

Two girls I banged last year, i did simply by having the confidence to go and talk to them.

I ran cocky-funny until I’d sparked attraction. Then moved into comfort.

In both cases these girls would subtly and overtly tell me how they wanted me to fuck them.

If I was too cocky-funny, they’d make it clear they were into me, I was alpha enough but they wanted to see a more vulnerable side.

In the case of a second girl, I had a text exchange that went like this:

Her: I don’t know what you think or believe.

Me: I’m a man, you’re a woman, I believe in the present, too many people live either in the past or the future. Too many guys hide their sexual desires and that leads to confusion by the girl. I’m not like that.

ME (with a smirk): well, the second mistake guys make is that they show their cards too early.

Her brain: SWOOOOOON

Your routine is solid because it sets you apart from the chodes she hates dating and it’s exhibiting the sexual frame thing going on. It also indicates that you just “get it” as Rollo says and beyond that, cute girls can tell when a guy is agreeing and trying to fly under the radar via the nice guy express to get in their pants. To a large extent, they spot it a mile away and sniff it out and don’t let you get past the vaginal gates when you nod your head and agree all the time.

Notice that with both of your experiences, the pattern was consistent:
1) Define yourself as different from other men
2) Make a Statement of Intent (or at least imply that you have more intentions than being her friend)
3) She shit-tests you about it to see if you’re congruent
4) You pass the shit-test by not apologizing for your desires as man or backtracking, thus being congruent, her attraction spikes through the roof, and the deal is sealed

Step 3 is important, because if you’re full of shit, Step 3 is where she’s going to weed that out. This is where outcome independence comes in, a supplicative Beta will say whatever he thinks she wants to hear politically-correct style so as not to risk fucking it up, but a congruent guy will stick to what he meant and risk losing her…that congruence representing outcome independence is what spikes her temperature.

@walawala
Solid stuff. That’s calibration in action, picking up on the signals of when to introduce different parts of your personality. It’s not the same as lying or supplicating to what the girl wants, it’s just being calibrated enough to understand the optimal time to display different sides of you. It’s like knowing to wear a suit when you go to a formal event instead of your sweatpants.

I use a lot of variations on “too many people/guys in CityName are OppositeOfMe” myself. It’s rock-solid shit and it even works with bad features, like “Ya, sorry, I say offensive shit sometimes. A lot of girls think I’m an asshole but I’ve met so many people here who are putting on this front like they just tell everyone what they think they want to hear so they’ll like them…I just try to be honest, you know? And if someone doesn’t like what I say, well that’s okay, not everyone has to like me.”

For seduction, I use shit like “I’ve found that too many people here are embarrassed about sex, like they think it’s shameful and can’t talk about it. It’s so weird to me…sex is fun and natural, no one should be ashamed for liking it.” after I “cross the line” talking about sex with a girl I’ve only just met, to set a non-judgemental sexual frame. It tells them “ohhh this is a guy I can admit I like sex around, not like that other guy who made me feel like a slut because I admitted SexualThing” and they open right up.

It’s part of why I can bang a girl without either of us knowing what the other does for a living or where either of us grew up or any of that boring shit lol I’m still building the necessary rapport/comfort she needs to let herself be seduced, but I’m building it through sexual topics instead of inoffensive ones. My Beta friends actually make fun of this because they’ll quiz me about a girl I slept with out of general interest and all my answers are “uhhh I dunno, I didn’t really ask.” and they can’t wrap their head around how I’m doing it.

@immoralgables
“Your routine is solid because it sets you apart from the chodes she hates dating and it’s exhibiting the sexual frame thing going on. It also indicates that you just “get it” as Rollo says and beyond that, cute girls can tell when a guy is agreeing and trying to fly under the radar via the nice guy express to get in their pants.”

Somewhere in these pages it says you have to kind of imagine yourself standing on a beach and the water washing over you doesn’t move you, eventually you’ll dry off or walk away if the current and tide are too much.

I’m now with a girl who literally worships the ground I walk on. But these things and feelings can just as easily change.

Guys get worried that girls are too emotional and it leads to failing shit tests or getting sucked into the girl’s frame.

I had another experience to share.

A girl I had been banging for 3 months as a sex buddy suddenly texted me with something like:

Her: I’m sorry, I can’t do this anymore, I’m afraid I’ll get addicted, good luck it was fun.

I’m serious….now, here’s what I wrote back:

Me: gay

A few days later, sure enough, she wrote back and then sent sexy photos and all that stuff was back.

We haven’t seen each other because I’ve been busy and working, but after the “gay” comment, she was back after a few days.

it’s true you can’t take what girls say too literally but you do need to know when to do what IG did in his scenario, lay his cards down and be real.

“But little did he know that for a while last year, I would go to Target on the days I knew he wouldn’t be home until late. I’d buy a pint of Ben & Jerry’s Phish Food, finish it before he came home and then throw the trash in the dumpster.”

Some great quotes from the researcher in the study that AlphaBeta mentions:

“Our findings suggest the importance of socialized gender roles for sexual frequency in heterosexual marriage,” said lead author Sabino Kornrich, of the Center for Advanced Studies at the Juan March Institute in Madrid.
…

“The results suggest the existence of a gendered set of sexual scripts, in which the traditional performance and display of gender is important for creation of sexual desire and performance of sexual activity,” Kornrich said.

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/01/30/less_housework_equals_more_sex_for_married_men_study.html
It found that couples spend an average of 34 hours a week on so-called “female” chores and 17 hours on more traditional male tasks. It also found that couples overall reported about five sexual encounters a month.
But households where Dagwood-like dreamboats preformed none of the “women’s work” reported 1.6 times more sexual encounters than those in which men took on the bulk of cooking and cleaning chores.
The study looked at 4,500 heterosexual couples polled as part of the U.S. National Survey of Families and Households, conducted between 1992 and 1994.””””””””””””””””””””
jesus that is pathetic
no wonder chicks worship my cock.
and i don’t have to do shit
5 times a month of sex
if there ever was an advertisement on why not to get married this might be it.

IV. Don’t play by her rules
her rule is also that honey do list bullshit don’t play that game either
XIV. Fuck her good
XV. Maintain your state control
You will not be manipulated by crying, yelling, lying, head games, sexual withdrawal, jealousy ploys, pity plays, shit tests, hot/cold/hot/cold, disappearing acts, or guilt trips.
XVI. Never be afraid to lose her
Don’t give her that power over yourself. Love yourself before you love her.
XI. Be irrationally self-confident
yea
””””””
i can’t find anywhere where it says do a chore

allright my chick came in from painting the kitchen to see if i needed another drink at first i was like naa it was half full then ok yea it could use some new pop to make it cold. she read my shit and said chicks don’t worship my cock only she does lol
i said what about my wife
she said ok two chicks worship your cock
anyway he he he

chick asked me if i am hungry and do i want her to cook something
she still painting shit says it is gonna be a surprize for me to look at
ok she did fuck up the kitchen dropped a can of spray paint that exploded so fixing that he he he
fucked the dog shit out of her when we got back earlier so i earned my relaxation not by painting the kitchen and fixing her fuckup
but by pounding that putty

and how is a french and american study saying the same thing coming out at the same time
its all bullshit
they always want the dude having to do some chores or whatever fuck that the man should be doing nothing but fucking that pussy more focus on fucking less focus on doing unimportant shit

So all these “Game” White boys are just trying to emulate Black male style? lol, it’s funny since this blog is supposed to be ran by a White male racialist. I suppose Casanova was a White guy though. Not sure how he seduced women or if it would be called “Game”.

[Heartiste: Game has its roots in white seduction which has a long and storied history independent of black contribution. Or do you think Voltaire and de Sade were aping black pimps?]

What 60 calls the “It’s On Moment” is the single best piece of seduction advice I’ve ever tried. Specifically, you take the girl’s hand, caress it a bit, and see if she caresses you back. It’s a vastly superior replacement for what most guys try to do with the first kiss: a superior way to convey your interest and escalate to “we’re together”, and a superior way to find out if she returns the feelings. The hand caress is easier than a kiss and takes less courage; it’s much more discreet, so you can do it in public in the presence of her friends where she might resist a kiss; it’s less invasive, but lets you know if you can get more invasive; it surreptitiously turns her on despite herself; and the hand never lies. If she caresses your hand back, it’s on. If she doesn’t, try again a few minutes later.

I just used it last night with a gorgeous girl who couldn’t stay long, and she lit up a bit, squeezed my hand, and made little excited micromovements. Based on previous experience, I’m pretty optimistic about our next meeting.

I wish I could go back and tell my younger self about it. Lunging for kisses was exciting when it worked, but very unfun when it didn’t. Now I don’t guess any more. Plus, I think 60 is right that it’s best to save kissing until you know you can fuck her the same day (to avoid an Anti-Slut Defense reaction on the next meeting).

I really think the hand caress is the first game every beginner should learn.

Good buddy of mine discovered this as well, and has practiced it extensively. He’s successfully used it even on cute supermarket cashiers. It’s a great screening tool, as a positive response to hand caressing is an almost guaranteed number close who will be receptive to further advances.

That 4-book set by 60 is one of the top five Game resources out there. I learned alot from it. I think he’s wrong on the relationship management side (he doesn’t appreciate the power of deep conversion) but everything else is great stuff. I whole-heartedly recommend it to every aspiring player – ESPECIALLY if you have a tendency to pedestalise women (his work on the purity fantasy and affection needs is brilliant)

Nice is the new n-word. Nobody wants nice. Even you don’t want nice. You want strong. You want to be thrown around like his rag doll and made to say daddy, not groomed for nits and fussed over by a fairy hairdresser queen.

“A really sexy guy who is also really nice to you” is an oxymoron. “Sadly, they’re pretty hard to find” because they do not exist because they are a contradiction in terms. A “really good looking beta guy” is a wisp of cotton candy when you are craving protein, and you always eventually crave protein.

Respect isn’t “nice.” It is what keeps the peace.

Peace isn’t “nice.” It is hard-won by power, preparation, and war.

Being good isn’t “nice.” It is often quite painful, disruptive, and rude.

Courtesy/civility/etiquette/chivalry isn’t “nice.” It is part of the social contract that keeps men from killing everyone they come across every day.

“Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.” — General James Mattis, USMC

No, “nice” is simple non-confrontation. It is the state of being inert, innocuous, and weak. “Nice” shies away from doing what’s right because doing what’s right is hard and gets in people’s faces. It’s much easier to retreat, and cringe, and supplicate, and flatter, and blush, and flee. Do you really think that attracts you? Do you not understand that women are forever attracted to conflict and drama?

You act like you and your significant other are enemies, when in fact, you’re supposed to be partners in all things. Also, being nice and being cowardly are entirely different things. You can be nice to somebody because you love them, not because you’re afraid of them. My boyfriend is nice to me, because he wants me to be happy, not because he’s afraid that I’ll run off with some stupid gang-banger. Isn’t that what a relationship should be? I’ve never thought of it as being this ridiculous situation where one party has to dominate the other. I try my best to make my boyfriend happy, and he does the same in return. What kind of miserable relationship would you have, if everything you do in a relationship has to be a power play? As for respect, the only reason why I’m commenting on this website is because you lot keeps putting down guys like him, when his toenail is worth more than all of you combined.

What kind of miserable relationship would you have, if everything you do in a relationship has to be a power play?

An established dynamic between active/passive, fucker/fucked, lead/follow, Captain/XO clears away the need for “power plays.”

My boyfriend is nice to me, because he wants me to be happy…

Cut to mechanic pointing under the hood. “Well, there’s your problem right there.”

A proper boyfriend, and not a half-alive doormat, wouldn’t dote on you. Rather, he would provide the means to a much deeper satisfaction by beating the following truth into your selfish being: fuck what you think makes precious lil princess haaaapy.

Your happiness is of no concern to the universe, hard as that may be for you to believe. It’s not all about you and your (erroneous) understanding of happiness. You seek out these shells of men because they do not disturb the fairy tale, you come to their rescue when we “put[] down guys like him,” and yet there is an emptiness at the bottom of it all, which your limited cognition will only recognize as “boredom.” But he’s perfect! Why do I refuse to let myself be happy?

We’re not just putting down your sexy sexy boyfriend who is already nearing his expiration date. We’re putting down you for being so typically, femininely oblivious.

I have a question about the name thing. In this article you talk about how you don’t want to give the girl your name and it’s better the longer you hold off giving it to her, or her asking for it.

In Bang, Roosh says that the longer the girl is going without asking information about you (he specifically mentions the name thing here), likely the worse your pickup attempt is going.

Which is it? Anybody w/ an answer is appreciated.

[Heartiste: There is no contradiction here. You want a girl to ask you questions, and you want to hold off on revealing info about yourself. The two work in conjunction. If you have attracted a girl enough that she is asking your name, you may reveal it at your discretion. But not before.]

I went thru a phase where I decided to start introducing myself as part of my opener. It was just because I was gaming in a very polite/reserved/cliquish sort of scene and I fell into the trap of behaving like everyone else (“hypnotized by the environment” in RSD terms).

But I snuffed the habit out eventually when I realized I was throwing away a perfectly good ioi chance, to gauge her interest. If I skip the formal introductions and just start gaming, now when there’s a pause in the conversation, if she doesn’t ask my name, I have work to do, if she does, she’s interested and I can escalate.

It’s like a free bonus signal, don’t throw it away. If I tell her my name, she might still like me just as much, but I don’t get that free ioi to let me know it. This is why I can turn around really aggressive bitchy girls that seem to hate me…”Fuck you, you’re an asshole, who the fuck ARE you anyway?” sounds like she hates me but I ignore the angry stuff and focus on the fact that she unconsciously dropped an ioi in there so that tells me there’s attraction I can work with and I’m undeterred much to the surprise of the people around us.🙂

Now if I do end up getting stuck in formal introductions with a cute chick, I’ll shake her hand and lock eye-contact, then relax my hand but not outright let go, like I’m just holding her hand in mine. If she pulls away, I have work to do, if she leaves it there, I can escalate (usually I’ll just keep our eye-contact locked and tease her about not giving my hand back, then as she laughs I’ll tug slightly on her hand, pulling her into me as I place her hands around my neck and I put mine on her waist and resume our conversation face to face and build sexual tension by being in her personal space and kino’ing eachother).

Old school Mystery Method recommends 3 iois = you can probably kiss her. Asking your name is one of those iois.

Or if you want to think of it in the most simplistic way possible: James Bond never offers his name. He waits for the girl to ask so he can say “Bond, James Bond” with the cool music playing in the back.