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Skunk Works Digest Sunday, 9 July 1995 Volume 05 : Number 339
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Skunk Works Digest Sunday, 9 July 1995 Volume 05 : Number 338
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Skunk Works Digest Sunday, 9 July 1995 Volume 05 : Number 337
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Skunk Works Digest Sunday, 9 July 1995 Volume 05 : Number 336
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Skunk Works Digest Saturday, 8 July 1995 Volume 05 : Number 335
In this issue:
Re: #1(2) Skunk Works Digest V5 #327
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From: ConsLaw@aol.com
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 1995 23:32:30 -0400
Subject: Re: #1(2) Skunk Works Digest V5 #327
Once upon a time, Trader@portal.cup shaped the electrons to say
Perhaps, that would account for the "Judy" flights, but what about the 30
dormitory buildings at the Groom base (See the security manual posted on the
Internet or the "Shadowhawk" blueprints)? If the scale on these documents
are correct, each of these dormitories is about 300 feet long.
evenings.)
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Skunk Works Digest Saturday, 8 July 1995 Volume 05 : Number 334
In this issue:
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Skunk Works Digest Saturday, 8 July 1995 Volume 05 : Number 333
In this issue:
Re: Lockheed affiliation
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From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 1995 20:10:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Lockheed affiliation
Lockheed was a big and diversified organization before the acquisition of
General Dynamics Fort Worth plant, and the merger with Martin Marietta.
Divisions of Lockheed, involved in RPV/UAV production and equipping, which
might have had dealings with Teledyne Ryan Aeronautics (TRA) include:
* Lockheed Aeronautics Corporation
* Lockheed Missiles and Space Corporation (LMSC)
* Lockheed Advanced Development Projects/Corporation (LADP/LADC)
* Lockheed Sanders
* Lockheed Communications Systems Corporation
* Lockheed Control Systems Corporation
* Lockheed Defense Systems Corporation
* Lockheed Electronics and Missiles Corporation
* Lockheed Government Electronics Systems Corporation
* Lockheed Ocean, Radar & Sensor Systems Corporation
* and probably others
Many TRA drones were carried, launched and controlled from Lockheed aircraft,
like the DC-130 and NC-130 Hercules and DP-2 Neptunes. During the Vietnam
war, operations of U-2s and AQM-34s were combined in the 4080th/100th SRW,
and as far as I know, they used a lot common equipment, like cameras, SIGINT
and other electronics gear.
As everyone knows, NAS Miramar is the home of 'Top Gun', the Navy Fighter
Weapons School (NFWS), which extensively uses TRA-built target drones.
There are many possible connections, for example the 'Have Lemon' program
of the early 1970s, which was a USAF 'Defense Suppression' program,
consisting of 6 different tasks. Task 05 resulted in the AGM-65, Stubby
HOBO, and Paveway carying BGM-34A and BGM-34B, tested by the 6514th TESTS
at Edwards AFB. Maybe one of Lockheed's divisions had one of the other tasks?
- - - - - - - -- Andreas
- - - - - - - --- ---
Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org
313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu
Flint, MI 48502-1239
Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/
- - - - - - - --- ---
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Skunk Works Digest Saturday, 8 July 1995 Volume 05 : Number 332
In this issue:
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Date: Sat, 8 Jul 95 16:56:45 PDT
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Skunk Works Digest Saturday, 8 July 1995 Volume 05 : Number 331
In this issue:
Lockheed affiliation
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From: chosa@chosa.win.net (Byron Weber)
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 1995 13:27:41
Subject: Lockheed affiliation
Can anyone tell me if Lockheed has ever been involved in a project
with Teledyne-Ryan, possibly at Miramar? Of course, Teledyne-Ryan
is doing the Tier II-plus. Anyone know its statis?
Byron Weber
- - - - - - - - ------------------------------
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Skunk Works Digest Saturday, 8 July 1995 Volume 05 : Number 330
In this issue:
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Skunk Works Digest Saturday, 8 July 1995 Volume 05 : Number 329
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From:
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 95 10:48:36 PDT
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Skunk Works Digest Saturday, 8 July 1995 Volume 05 : Number 328
In this issue:
Undeliverable Message
XV23
Re: XV23 - NOT
Re: XV23 - NOT
Re: Skunk Works Digest V5 #327
RPV instrument package question
AW&ST: June 26 / July 3
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Skunk Works Digest Saturday, 8 July 1995 Volume 05 : Number 327
In this issue:
Re: Me again... :)
re: SR-71 top speed
a reply to your note
US RPV Deployed in Albania ?!
RE: US RPV Deployed in Albania ?!
Sea Shadow retires
Re: Me again... :)
Re: US RPV Deployed in Albania ?!
B-35/B-49
Michael Rust
X-35
Re: Skunk Works Digest V5 #325
Re: Skunk Works Digest V5 #325
Site 6 (Plant 42) surveillance report
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From: George Allegrezza 07-Jul-1995 0703
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 95 07:07:37 EDT
Subject: Re: Me again... :)
Off charter but . . didn't the Air Defense Force (or whatever it was)
Air Marshall literally get taken out and shot as a result of the Rust
incident?
George
George Allegrezza |
Digital Equipment Corporation | "He has a perfect face for radio."
Mobile Systems Business |
Littleton MA USA | -- from "Quiz Show"
allegrezza@ljsrv2.enet.dec.com |
- - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
From: albert.dobyns@mwbbs.com (ALBERT DOBYNS)
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 95 01:33:00 -0500
Subject: re: SR-71 top speed
> Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 10:40:54 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Mary Shafer
> Subject: Re: D-21 and SR-71
> Message-Id:
MS> The SR-71 can go up to about Mach 3.3 or 500 KEAS (fig. 5-3 in the
> Dash 1). It's an inlet temperature thing. Anything higher is
> nonsense.
MS> The Machmeter only goes to 4, too.
Mary, this reminds, in an odd way perhaps, what happened to my old
1966 Chevelle on one extremely cold day in Chicago. My son started
to drive somewhere and the speedometer needle wouldn't move much; a
common thing for this old car in cold climate. I think the cable had
condensation in it and it froze which prevented the cable from turning.
Well all of a sudden the highly wound up cable overcame the resistance
of the frozen water, grease, whatever. My son reported that this time
the needle flew beyond the max speed on the panel (120 mph I think). He
said it went off scale and never returned! I guess the cable snapped
the needle off the shaft. By that time we had about 220K miles on the
car so we decided not to waste time or money fixing it. We would just
drive until we were going at a speed that sounded right for the posted
speed limit.
I think a Machmeter that only goes to 4 is more than enough for real
SR-71 pilots. I hope the person who posted the note you replied to
will pardon my sarcasm. It's just that you and a lot of other people
have heard such high numbers before that a bit of sarcasm (my note,
not your reply) is bound to leak out now and then. I don't know why
my old car's speedometer had a maximum number of 120 mph. By the time
it was going 70 mph, there was enough shaking and rattling that it was
obvious that it wasn't wise to try to squeeze more speed out of it!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - ---
- - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
From: albert.dobyns@mwbbs.com (ALBERT DOBYNS)
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 95 01:30:00 -0500
Subject: a reply to your note
> Message-Id:
> Date: Thu, 06 Jul 1995 00:43:14 -0600
> From: whl@mcs.com (William H. Leininger)
> Subject: Re: Vulcan crash at Glenview
WHL> The crash, which was indeed during a practice, was into a landfill
> north of the base. I live not too far away, and frequently saw the
> Vulcan in previous years when it was in town for the show. (One
> time I was in the Northwestern University tech library when the
> Vulcan passed over and went into a climb out over the lake. I
> concur with those on the list who say
> it was one of the noisiest planes to be in the exhaust stream of.)
WHL> I do seem to recall that all the crew was killed, but as it hit a
> landfill, there were no other fatalities.
WHL> The last vulcan is indeed retired; I believe there was an article
> in Smithsonian Air & Space on the subject 1 - 2 years ago. The
> last ones were used in air shows.
WHL> If you don't get any more definite replies, let me know. I can
> probably get you the date, but it would take some digging which I
> won't have time for this month.
Thanks for the info. It's a lucky thing if crashed into a landfill
rather than an apartment complex. Perhaps someone else has info on
the cause of the crash. I really don't expect you to dig futher. I
think you filled in some gaps and that's very much appreciated. The
last image in my mind from the newscasts is that some RAF officer who
flew from England to here to investigate the accident talked with
reporters briefly. It was obvious from the expression on his face that
he agreed with the reporter that it was an unfortunate tradgedy for
the family's of the dead crewmen. I think the reporter knew that the
officer had only recently arrived so he didn't ask the usual question
about what happened.
This is quite a contrast to a tv news segment about a restored plane
that crashed at DuPage airport. The on-the-scene reported said there
were 2 people on board: pilot and their mechanic and that both perished.
Then the newscast switches back to the studio where the newsperson
asked about the fate of the passengers. It had already been established
that there were no passengers.
- - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
From: "Michael F. Peyton" <0003248388@mcimail.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 95 10:53 EST
Subject: US RPV Deployed in Albania ?!
I caught, out of the corner of my ear, a NPR broadcast the afternoon of 7/6/95
that reported that the US was deploying a RPV at an airfield in Albania. The
report said that it was still in crates and was planned to be used for
surveilance over the former Yugoslovia. It was not clear if this is one of the
new high speed / high flyer models that we have been talking about here. It
might well be one of the many US Army low speed / low flying models that have
been around for quite a while.
The main reason to post here is that this might be one of the first
deployments of the new technologies. Please post a note if anyone has more
information, or can verify, or correct the story. I did scan the 7/7/95
Washington Post and did not see any story.
I also this it is absolutely amazing that Albania would have anything to do
with the US, after all the anti-America trash coming out of Abainia in past
years. Maybe I got the country wrong, but I am sure that is what I heard, as
that is what caught my attention. It does make sense, of sorts, because Albania
is strategicly placed for operations into the former Yugoslovia.
Mike Peyton mpeyton@mcimail.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
From: George Allegrezza 07-Jul-1995 1355
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 95 14:06:30 EDT
Subject: RE: US RPV Deployed in Albania ?!
It's probably the General Atomics Predator UAV. It's a small piston-powered
low-flying system. All the high-tech is in the sensor package and the data
link. It's cheap, easy to use, and in the Yugoslavian environment, not
especially vulnerable, because it's small size makes identification, let alone
interception, difficult.
The CIA had a Predator in Albania last year. It worked out well.
I think Albania has read the papers and knows that the USSR is dead, thus they
have to open up to the west. It's a pretty poor country, too, so they need aid
and investment, regardless of their nominal ideology. They'll drop the
anti-American routine in a heartbeat if it means Uncle Sam (and Uncle Hans and
Uncle Francois) bring in some hard currency. Letting the CIA operate a
surveillance operation within their borders is one small way to show they care.
:-)
George
George Allegrezza |
Digital Equipment Corporation | "He has a perfect face for radio."
Mobile Systems Business |
Littleton MA USA | -- from "Quiz Show"
allegrezza@ljsrv2.enet.dec.com |
- - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
From: Dave Cox
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 12:37:10
Subject: Sea Shadow retires
From the San Diego Union 07/07/95 p. B2
Formerly top-secret stealth ship slips unnoticed into retirement.
"Even in retirement, the Navy's stealth ship is pretty sneaky.
The once-classified Sea Shadow, housed inside a giant barge, slipped
into San Diego without fanfare or much notice in late May, Navy
officials confirmed.
Even the Pentagon public affairs officer assigned to answer questions
about the ship was unaware it had moved from San Francisco Bay to San
Diego.
The sea shadow and its barge are tied up near Pier 14 at the San Deigo
Naval Station at 32nd Street said local Navy spokeswoman Julie Swan.
It is alongside other derelicts and Navy has-beens.
[...]
The Sea Shadow's retirement is indefinite, Swan said."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - --dave
- - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
From: "Robin J. Lee"
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 12:52:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Me again... :)
On Fri, 7 Jul 1995, George Allegrezza 07-Jul-1995 0703 wrote:
> Off charter but . . didn't the Air Defense Force (or whatever it was)
> Air Marshall literally get taken out and shot as a result of the Rust
> incident?
Not shot, but put out to pasture along with the Defense Minister, pretty
much as a consolidating move by Gorbachev in order to bludgeon the crusty
old generals left over from the Brezhnev era into line.
As an interesting sidenote, Alexander Zuyev claims that a Voyska PVO
(Air Defense) MiG-23 pilot did run a visual intercept on Rust's Cessna
172 and was flatly told that he was looking at a flock of birds.
(Gorby's handpicked successor to the Defense Ministry, Dimitri Yazov, was
of course later involved up to his shoulderboards in the August '91
coup. Maybe it would've been better for everybody if they dressed up
Rust in a suit of tin foil and claimed he arrived in a UFO. But then
we'd REALLY be off-charter.)
Back to lurking,
Robin.
____________________________________________________________________________
Robin J. Lee amraam@netcom.com
Vulture's Row Worldwide Web Page URL: http://webcom.com/~amraam/
- - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 17:32:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: US RPV Deployed in Albania ?!
The USAF has deployed about 100 personnel to Albania, to support the
first operational mission of the new Tier 2 UAV, the General Atomics
'Predator'.
The UAV, of which 10 are in the US military service, was tested very
successfully during the 'Roving Sands' exercise, earlier this year in the
USA. It uses Line-Of-Sight (LOS) data links to relay visual, InfraRed and
radar pictures to a mobile ground station or to an airborne relay aircraft
(for example a Schweizer RG-8A motor glider). Some are also equipped with
a satellite data link for Over-The-Horizon (OTH) operations. I have no
idea though, if the deployed Tier 2s are OTH or only LOS equipped.
The most astonishing part to me is, that the CIA was allowed already to fly
surveillance missions out of Albania last year, using their Tier 1 UAV,
based on the General Atomics 'Gnat 750'. They also used an RG-8A flying out
of Tirana (?).
Albania is not only the poorest European country, but until the communist
regime was overthrown in 1991 (?), was one of the most closed societies,
together with other communist-ruled countries, like North Korea and the PRC.
After hundreds of thousands fled over the Adriatic Sea to Italy, it seems
that the Western European countries and the USA are helping Albania for
various reasons.
Most countries in Europe, especially Italy, don't want to be flooded by
Albanian refugees, and the USA is very happy to have an outpost for its
military and surveillance operations in the area. The USA is also conducting
joint military exercises in Albania and Hungary, right now, as they did
before with Russia and the Ukraine. Albania is also obviously afraid of the
Serbians in Yugoslavia, and is concerned about the Albanians living in the
Kosovo (sp ?) region in Yugoslavia.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -- Andreas
- - - - - - - - - - - - - --- ---
Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org
313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu
Flint, MI 48502-1239
Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/
- - - - - - - - - - - - - --- ---
- - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 17:39:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: B-35/B-49
There are several reasons, why the Northrop flying wings B-35 and B-49
did not go into production. The major reason the B-35 lost out against
the B-36 was probably because the layout, size and weight of the early US
nuclear weapons were so secret, that the engineers at Convair and Northrop
had to design those bombers without any data concerning those weapons.
Convair, with its 'real big' B-36 was much luckier than Northrop, with
its 'real elegant' B-35 in this respect. The weapons bays of the B-35s
were too small to accommodate those bombs (Mk.I, Mk.III, and Mk.IV).
At the beginning, the B-35 showed some instability problems, which could
have been overcome, but the cancellation of the project prevented this. The
B-49s had even more problems, missing the stabilizing effects of the engine
nacells, and the propellers (originally even counter-rotating), so they had
to add fins.
Northrop had also to fight on the 'political front' against some people
in the 'Industrial-Military-Complex', who wanted him to merge with Convair,
which he refused. It ended with Northrop being forced to destroy all of the
USAF-owned B-35s and B-49s, the remains of which were then sold for scrap.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -- Andreas
- - - - - - - - - - - - - --- ---
Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org
313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu
Flint, MI 48502-1239
Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/
- - - - - - - - - - - - - --- ---
- - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 17:54:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Michael Rust
Michael Rust was a disturbed kid. He did this stunt flight in the Cessna
172 to get attention. One could say he was not as crazy as the guy who crash
landed on the White House lawn, but he did endanger himself and a whole lot
of people, when he landed on the 'Red Square' in Moscow. After he served
some time in a Russian prison, he went back to Germany, where he soon winded
up behind bars again, for stalking and finally stabbing a nurse. Quite a
wierdo.
To assume he would have had any form of stealth equipment on board of his
Cessna, seems to me as crazy as thinking he was telepathically controlled by
aliens, who observed him from one of their UFOs, or sent by the CIA to spy
on the Soviets, especially their prisons. :)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -- Andreas
- - - - - - - - - - - - - --- ---
Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org
313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu
Flint, MI 48502-1239
Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/
- - - - - - - - - - - - - --- ---
- - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 17:57:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: X-35
I haven't heard about any project designated X-35 in any official Department
of Defense (DoD) statement. NASA was working on the so-called HL-20 a while
back, based on previous lifting body experiences, which was to be used as a
rescue system for astronauts, particulary in connection with the Space
Station 'Alpha' (then still called 'Freedom'). Some University kids even
built a full scale model/mock-up, as far as I know. The designation X-35
would have had to be assigned by the DoD, and not NASA, though.
It seems to me that a more likely candidate for the X-35 would be 'Black
Horse' or maybe its little brother 'Black Colt', if they ever get funded.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -- Andreas
- - - - - - - - - - - - - --- ---
Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org
313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu
Flint, MI 48502-1239
Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/
- - - - - - - - - - - - - --- ---
- - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
From: KavanaghNY@aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 18:38:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Skunk Works Digest V5 #325
If it was rehashing the HL-20 design wouldn't that sort-of fall under the
X-33 specifications not the X-35 ( which I haven't even heard about)?
KavanaghNY
- - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
From: KavanaghNY@aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 18:38:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Skunk Works Digest V5 #325
What you described sounds like an experimental aircraft....the XV-23 I
believe. We have one of the experimental aircraft in a hangar owned by
Calspan here in buffalo. I do not know why they would still be testing that
aircraft unless the airframe happened to fit a the requirements for some new
equipment being tested.
KavanaghNY
- - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
From: TRADER@cup.portal.com
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 95 20:59:36 PDT
Subject: Site 6 (Plant 42) surveillance report
Site 6 (Air Force Plant 42) -- July 5, 1995 surveillance report
by Paul McGinnis (July 7, 1995)
(I'm posting the following because I've noticed that some people visit
military sites just once, claim to see all kinds of amazing things,
and write about their "experience". (As an example, I saw someone's
story about how they visited a number of places in California's Antelope
Valley, Tonopah Test Range, Nevada's Tikaboo Valley (Groom Lake),
and White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico, in the course of 5 days,
and saw all kinds of secret aircraft and UFOs. Ignoring the fact that to
make that kind of loop you'd have to be driving on many highways across 4
states for all of those 5 days, nobody ever gets that lucky. So, I decided
to write about a not particularly eventful trip I just made out to the
desert. There are no "Aurora" sightings, black helicopters, grey aliens,
etc. but hopefully, a more realistic tale.) Yes, I know that a lot of
people's response will be, "Get a life!"
The main purpose of this expedition was to lurk around the U.S. Air Force's
Plant 42 installation in Palmdale, California early on a work day morning to
monitor what flew in and out of Site 6, operated by defense contractor EG&G.
There had been a rumor that Groom Lake base workers flew out of there, like
they do in 737s at McCarran International Airport in Las Vegas. Plant 42
is home to Lockheed's "Skunk Works" where classified aircraft are built.
Rockwell, Northrop, and other defense contractors also have large operations
at Plant 42, which employs more than 9,000 people. Internet users can
see a map of Plant 42, and other info I have posted at:
http://www.portal.com/~trader/gav.html
I decided to conduct my surveillance on the day after the July 4th holiday,
when everybody would have to come back to work. I arrived in the Antelope
Valley on the afternoon of July 4th and scouted the base. Even though I've
lurked around the base a number of times in the past, and have material
on the installation that was released under the Freedom of Information Act
(FOIA), I still wanted to find a decent place just outside the fence
to watch Site 6, which is towards the center of the installation near the
control tower. There are other viewing spots, such as the fence on the
west near Sierra Highway, where one can study Lockheed's "Skunk Works",
or a place known as "John's Spot", a patch of dirt on the east side of
the base fence, next to the end of the runways, where you can watch aircraft
arriving or departing. The best spot I found was a boulder in the parking lot
of Palmdale Regional Airport, on the south side of the base.
According to Air Force material I had, the tower didn't open until 6:00 in
the morning. I tried to find a cheap motel near Plant 42, but had to make
do with a place 3 miles (4.8 km) away. I had to convince the clerk that
I wanted a room on the top (3rd) floor, even though they had plenty of
rooms on the ground floor. (I didn't tell her that I wanted to be as high
above the ground as possible, for better radio reception for my scanner --
I had a Radio Shack Pro-26 with me, with continuous coverage up to 1.3 GHz,
except for the cellular telephone frequencies.)
I got up the next morning at 5:00, in order to get to Plant 42 before 6:00.
Unfortunately, I heard the Palmdale tower on 123.7 MHz, around 5:10 stating
that they "had one going out for Lockheed" and identified the aircraft type
as a Cessna. After a quick shower, I sped over to Plant 42, but the aircraft
had already departed.
I decided to monitor what was flying at Plant 42 up until 8:00, when I would
have to leave and commute 2 hours to my job. While sitting on the rock, I
came up with an idea that avoided problems with the local law enforcement.
Since aerospace workers wear photo ID badges, I put mine on, even though it
was not for any of the contractors at Plant 42. This would prove useful later,
when a Palmdale Airport police officer came by, and didn't find anything
unusual about a guy (me) with big 10x50 binoculars and a radio studying the
base, because the guy was wearing a badge.
There didn't seem to much activity in Site 6, which didn't look like it could
handle 737s. (My vantage point was almost 1 mile (1.6 km) away.) The main
buildings at Site 6 are a medium-sized Quonset hut and a small hangar.) For
some time, the only activity was the departure of United Express turboprops
from Palmdale Airport. While waiting for something to happen I saw a gorgeous
desert sunrise and randomly searched for new frequencies with the scanner.
(I found 2 new frequencies -- aircraft departing Palmdale switched to 124.55
MHz, and I heard Air Force SPs at Edwards AFB giving traffic tickets on
148.05 MHz).
Around 6:50 in the morning a two engine Cessna (of the type used to carry
business executives around) landed at Plant 42, and pulled up to the Quonset
hut in Site 6. At this point, I realized I was witnessing what I had come to
see. A truck carrying aircraft fuel appeared and a ground crew started
servicing the aircraft. Passengers eventually boarded the aircraft and it
left around 7:30.
I actually heard the Palmdale tower give the destination of the aircraft.
Their message was, "King Air [garbled] cleared from Palmdale to Tonopah".
This was not what I expected, but pretty reasonable -- EG&G (and their
subsidiary REECo) operates Site 6 and Tonopah Test Range (TTR) in Nevada.
A former aerospace worker explained that King Air does a lot of business
flying defense workers around to remote locations. Perhaps, the reason
for the rumor that these flights go to unknown destinations was that
the person didn't have a radio to listen to the tower. (My own guess is
that Groom Lake base workers probably fly to Las Vegas on Monday mornings,
stay in motels or hotels in Vegas during the week, while they fly out to
Groom each day, and then return back to Southern California on Friday
evenings.)
Summary:
I now have a better idea about Site 6 activities. As I mentioned at the
beginning of this message, and people who follow military activities
can confirm, most of our trips are pretty uneventful. For example, I've
hiked in to see Groom Lake both with groups and on my own. All I've ever
seen is a large air base in a remote desert location. But, that's not the
point. The point is that it gives one a chance to get away from the city,
and satisfy one's curiousity. The military is usually aware that you are
watching them, and you probably won't see anything really shocking.
Normally, the extent of interest the military shows in you is to have their
security men study you. Yes, you end up staring at them with binoculars,
while they stare back at you with binoculars.
In case anyone is interested, here's what I had in my scanner:
Frequencies (in MHz) (AM unless otherwise indicated):
121.9 - Palmdale ground control
123.325, 123.425 - Lockheed - aero band
123.7 - Palmdale tower
124.55 - Palmdale departures
126.1 - Joshua Approach/Departure (I have heard controller giving private
planes instructions on how to avoid Plant 42's and Edwards AFB restricted
air space on 126.1)
149.505 (FM) - Plant 42 (now encrypted?)
153.025 (FM) - EG&G
153.2 (FM), 158.295 (FM) - Lockheed Corp. (I have heard Lockheed's fire
department on 158.295)
163.4875, 163.5875 - Air Force SPs [used nationwide]
460.1 (FM), 460.525 - Palmdale Airport police
462.425 - Lockheed (security?? encrypted some of the time)
482.8625 - Los Angeles County Sheriff (Antelope Valley - it's always good
to have local law enforcement in your radio, in case a base calls them)
Paul McGinnis / TRADER@cup.portal.com / PaulMcG@aol.com
http://www.portal.com/~trader/secrecy.html
**********************************************************************
Anonymous FTP access to files dealing with excessive military secrecy
is available from Internet host ftp.shell.portal.com (IP address
156.151.3.4) in the /pub/trader directory. Read the 00readme files for
descriptions of the files. Writings from Glenn Campbell, author of the
"Area 51 Viewer's Guide" are available in /pub/trader/secrecy/psychospy.
(America Online users can use Keyword:FTP, and Web users can use URL
ftp://ftp.shell.portal.com/pub/trader/ )
- - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #327
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- - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
From: Charles_E._Smith.wbst200@xerox.com
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 1995 03:32:02 PDT
Subject: XV23
There were 2 XV23`s built. One was crashed by the Air Force, the other is
resting
comfortably, although somewhat dustily, in Calspans`s hangar. It is halfway
down
along the south wall. I was in the Calspan hangar about two month`s ago, being
there for the formal unveiling of the VISTA reasearch aircraft. The project
manager
for the XV23 is an old buddy of a friend of mine, and I asked him why the fixed
vertical fin was so enormous on the `23. He smiled and said "because it had to
be."
I suspect it had a lot to do with "apparent mass" effects along the roll axis.
(This phenomina is found in extremely light aircraft. When the structure is
light
enough, the moving of air out of the way as a wing rolls becomes significant.
This was found to be the reason the Gossamer Condor" wouldn`t turn. The
Wright Flyer also has a very weird root-locus plot for roll stability due to
this.)
Well, the old XV23 is in remarkably good shape. I crawled around in the duct`s
and found a lot of Cherry rivets, but it seemed to be complete. The only
really sad
thing about it is that its covered with about 1/8" dust.
I think the Calspan people are really sentimental about her. The `23 still has
the
towbar hooked uplike she`s ready for another flight test.
I`m told that there are serious plans underway to display the XV23 in a museum
in
Buffalo.
The XV23 is historic in that it was the very last aircraft ever constructed in
the
"Niagra Frontier", and stands as a legacy to some of the most exciting and
influential aircraft from aviation`s "golden years."
Calspan has a lunch room with pictures of all the aircraft that have been
flight tested
there. Quite a who`s who of aircraft designs.
There hangar is really aviation history in progress. One walks by the TIFFS to
get to
the VISTA. Their old T-33, which I`m told is the oldest flying jet in active
service
for the USAF- still shines like a new penny.
For an aerospace engineer, sitting at a catered table in the Calspan Flight
Research
hangar among their fleet of aircraft, sharing dinner with F-16 test pilots and
some of the cheif designers for
X planes is a pretty heady experience, to say the least!
This should pretty well clear up the whereabouts and status of the XV23.
Chuck Smith
"Aerospace Engineer to the Stars"
- - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 1995 07:07:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: XV23 - NOT
The aircraft you were referring to, is of corse the Bell X-22A, BuAerNo
'151521', used by Calspan for VSTOL research, utilizing its Variable
Stability System (VSS), and as training aircraft for USAF and USN pilots,
especially from the Test Pilots School, also located at Edwards AFB.
The first prototype, BuAerNo '151520', crashed early in the test flight
program, and its remains, including the complete cockpit section, was used
as the basis for a flight simulator, developed by Calspan.
There was never an XV-23 designated aircraft in the US military service,
as the V-22 Osprey is the latest aircraft designated in the V-series.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -- Andreas
- - - - - - - - - - - - --- ---
Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org
313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu
Flint, MI 48502-1239
Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/
- - - - - - - - - - - - --- ---
- - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
From: Charles_E._Smith.wbst200@xerox.com
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 1995 05:47:38 PDT
Subject: Re: XV23 - NOT
Yep. I`m getting pretty old (almost40) and if you check the header for the original
it should say about 6:00 AM. I was about 2.62 coffee`s away from conscious!
So, now you know were the 22 is.
love, Chuck
- - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
From: russellk@BIX.com
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 1995 10:00:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Skunk Works Digest V5 #327
>I think a Machmeter that only goes to 4 is more than enough for real
>SR-71 pilots. I hope the person who posted the note you replied to
>will pardon my sarcasm. It's just that you and a lot of other people
>have heard such high numbers before that a bit of sarcasm (my note,
>not your reply) is bound to leak out now and then. I don't know why
>my old car's speedometer had a maximum number of 120 mph. By the time
>it was going 70 mph, there was enough shaking and rattling that it was
>obvious that it wasn't wise to try to squeeze more speed out of it!
>
I apologize in advance for going briefly off-topic, but that comment on the
believability of gauges reminds me of the incident in the movie 'Spinal
Tap' where the lead guitar player goes into ecstasy over a new amplifier --
because it's volume knobs go up to 11 instead of merely to 10. Whatever
floats your boat, I guess!
====================================================
Russell Kay, Technical Editor, BYTE Magazine
1 Phoenix Mill Lane, Peterborough, NH 03458
603-924-2591; fax 603-924-2550
russellk@bix.com
====================================================
- - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
From: "Thomas A. Gauldin"
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 1995 10:52:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: RPV instrument package question
Reading about the RPV's, and especially the one soon to be flying from
Albania, raises a question about the security of the instrument package.
I assume that the craft is nothing warranting classification, but is the
sensing and relaying instrument package something that warrants
classification? If so, is the package "wired with explosives" to deter
reverse engineering in the event it falls into enemy hands? Do we have
anti-tampering explosives in modern manned aircraft?
Tom
Thomas A. Gauldin Here's to the land of the longleaf pine,
Raleigh, NC The summerland where the sun doth shine,
BSRB45A on Prodigy Where the weak grow strong and the strong grow great,
FAX (919) 676-1404 Here's to Downhome, the Old North State.
- - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 1995 11:23:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: AW&ST: June 26 / July 3
The latest two Aviation Weeks & Space Technology issues include the following
skunky and semi-skunky articles:
INDUSTRY OUTLOOK, June 26, page 13:
- - - - - - - - - - - - -----------------------------------
SMART WINGS
"Northrop Grumman will study 'smart adaptive wing' concepts under a $3.4-
million, two-year contract from the Advanced Research Projects Agency. The
company will study three materials that can change the shape of the wing:
shape memory alloys that deform when heated, piezoelectric materials that
respond to voltage, and magnetorestrictive materials that deform under
magnetic fields. Along with pressure-sensing fibers, they will be applied
to control the twist and leading and trailing edges of a 1/6-scale F/A-18
wing in a wind tunnel. The materials also will be tested on a Gulfstream
business jet wing."
PILOTLESS AE 3007
"Allison expects to deliver two AE 3007 powerplants next spring to support
upcoming demonstration flights of Teledyne Ryan's Tier 2+ unmanned aerial
vehicle at Edwards AFB. The powerplant, which has been extensively tested at
the Naval Air Warfare Center near Trenton, N.J., is a 'vanilla' AE 3007 that
has a cut-back chord in the first-stage turbine vane for increased core flow.
Engine tests this fall at the Arnold Engineering Development Center near
Tullahoma, Tenn., will determine if the powerplant requires any additional
modifications to operate at altitudes approaching 70,000 ft."
WASHINGTON OUTLOOK, June 26, page 19:
- - - - - - - - - - - - -------------------------------------
WHO'DA THUNK IT?
"One of the nation's top intelligence officials will go to Moscow next month
to talk to his Russian counterparts about how to share spy satellite imagery.
Jeffrey K. Harris, assistant secretary of the Air Force for space and head of
the National Reconnaissance Office, will travel with Vice President Al Gore
for a meeting of the cooperation commission that Gore cochairs with Russian
Prime Minister Viktor Chernomyrdin. Harris will explore how the two nations'
intelligence satellites might be used to provide 'derivative products' to
environmental scientists."
McDONNELL TEAM SHIFTS ASTOVL FOCUS FOR JAST, June 26, pages 22/23:
- - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------------------------------------------
The article outlines the status of the three contenders for the X-32 JAST
contract. All have now selected the Pratt & Whitney (PW) F119 engine, after
the MDC-led team has dropped its General Electric (GE) YF120 powered
'gas-coupled lift fan' design.
* Lockheed Martin team:
The Skunk Works seem to be quite ahead with their design, having tested
its demonstrator in a NASA Ames wind tunnel in mid-June with good results.
They are waiting for the approval of their technical assistance agreement
with the Yakovlev Design Bureau. Lockheed uses an F119 shaft-coupled with
an Allison lift fan.
* Boeing team:
The Boeing-led team, which opted for a direct lift approach (like the
Harrier), needs an up to 40% upscaled fan for the F119, even though they
'probably have the most complete design at this stage', Gen. George K.
Muellner, the JAST program office director, said. Boeing may build as
planned a 94%-scale demonstrator for wind tunnel tests, or may opt for a
smaller version.
* McDonnell Douglas / Northrop Grumman / British Aerospace team:
The article focuses mainly on this design, because it is fairly new and
was not described in previous articles. MDC now envisions a lift-plus-
lift-cruise design, using a standard F119 and an additional lift-fan
engine, which may be a Rolls-Royce (RR) or GE/Allison design. The engine
would be a high-bypass turbofan in the 16,000-lb.-thrust category. MDC
hopes to utilize most of its research data, acquired in over 45,000 wind
tunnel hours, and some of the hardware built for the non-flying, full-scale
gas-coupled lift fan concept demonstrator. The major reason for the switch
is the urge to have an affordable and common (tri-service) aircraft, which
was most economically achieved with two different engines, instead of the
relatively exotic gas-coupled lift fan design [which kinda works like the
propulsion unit of the Avro VZ-9V Avrocar, which wasn't really a great
success -- Andreas].
F119 TURBINE TESTS RESOLVE VIBRATION ISSUE, June 26, page 24:
- - - - - - - - - - - - -------------------------------------------------------------
P&W and the USAF have resolved the vibration problems in the F119s high-
pressure turbine. The engine is supposed to power the F-22, and later the
X-32 JAST demonstrator.
TANK DEFENSE SYSTEM MIGHT PROTECT PATRIOT, June 26, page 39:
- - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------------------------------------
The article describes two independent projects to develop a hit-to-kill,
point-defense system, aimed at Anti-Tank Guided Missiles (ATGM), mortar
shells and artillery rounds. The first, called Small Low-cost Interceptor
Device (SLID) is an ARPA project, which could also be used to protect Patriot
(MIM-104) batteries against Anti-Radiation Missiles (ARM). The other is an
Army program for a similar Integrated Defense System (IDS) for M1A1 Abrams
Main Battle Tanks (MBT).
CIS SATELLITES DISPLAYED, June 26, page 51:
- - - - - - - - - - - - -------------------------------------------
Shows four pictures of satellites and satellite models displayed at
Le Bourget:
* a model of the new Resource-Spektre-V, designed by the Central Specialized
Design Bureau (TsSKB) in Samara, a reconnaissance satellite for stereo
images in the visible light range with a 3-5 meter resolution. The
imaging-radar equipped version is called Resource-Spektre-R;
* a model of the Resurs F2 reconnaissance satellite, which is the currently
used film-return satellite type. The 14,000-lb satellite is based on the
manned Vostok space capsules, and can provide 5-8 meter resolution pictures
in 6 spectral bands;
* an actual F2 reentry capsule, showing its camera ports. This particular
camera-laden reentry vehicle has flown twice: in 1989 and in 1991;
* a Okean-O advanced ocean monitoring spacecraft, designed in the Ukraine
by Yuzhnoye, and will be launched on a Ukrainan Zenit (SL-16). It carries
multispectral, radar and microwave systems.
NEWS BREAKS, July 3, page 15:
- - - - - - - - - - - - -----------------------------
F-22 CENTER FUSELAGE ASSEMBLY BEGINS
"Layers of resin-impregnated composite material are automatically positioned
atop tooling to form a left upper wing skin panel for the first USAF F-22
fighter. The F-22's wing is being made by Boeing at its Developmental Center
in Seattle. Lockheed Martin has begun assembly of the center fuselage at its
Ft. Worth, Tex., plant. Final assembly of the first F-22 in the engineering
and manufacturing development phase is scheduled to begin in late 1996 at
Lockheed Martin's Marietta, Ga., facility, which is building the forward
fuselage. First flight of the aircraft is set for May 29, 1997."
WASHINGTON OUTLOOK, July 3, page 17:
- - - - - - - - - - - - -------------------------------------
WHAT DID HAPPEN?
"Some Pentagon and electronics industry officials now claim there were
warning signals for nearly three hours before U.S. pilot Scott O'Grady was
shot down recently over Bosnia. That is a far longer warning time than the
12-13 minutes claimed by Vice Admiral John M. McConnell, director of the
super-secret National Security Agency. According to the Pentagon and industry
officials, a U-2R aircraft picked up SA-6 missile radar transmissions on and
off for 2 hr. 48 min. before the shootdown. The information was automatically
relayed to a ground station, but for some reason it was not passed on. These
officials say that two other aircraft were on station monitoring signals
besides the U-2R, an RC-135 Rivet Joint and a Navy EP-3E, specialized for
electronic intercept. 'You can pick up an SA-6 signal 500 mi. away. It's
distinctive; it's like setting of a gong,' one official said. Adm. William O.
Studeman, deputy director of the Central Intelligence Agency, also confirmed
last week that missiles were detected, but the information was not forwarded
to the E-3 command and control aircraft that would have warned O'Grady."
POISED TO DEPLOY
"U.S. spy aircraft personnel may depart Key West, Fla., for Albania as early
as July 6 to deploy secret unmanned aerial vehicles over Bosnia. A team of
about 100 people and three of the vehicles, called the Tier 2 Predator, are
to provide intelligence to NATO planners about Bosnian military operations."
LYNN TO ARPA
"The Advanced Research Projects Agency has a new director, Pentagon advanced
technology chief Larry Lynn. Lynn pioneered the Advanced Concept Technology
Demonstration scheme of accelerating the development of new technology and
putting it quickly into limited operational use. His most visible success was
the $3.2-million Tier 2 Predator unmanned aerial vehicle. Lynn will retain
responsibility for the ACTD program until planning for 1996 initiatives is
complete. Until that time, Tom Purdue, assistant deputy undersecretary of
Defense for ballistic missile defense, will be Lynn's principal assistant in
the Pentagon's advanced technology office. However, both Lynn and Pentagon
acquisition chief Paul Kaminski were emphatic that the ACTD program should
not change jurisdictions. Kaminski said. 'It would be a mistake to put [ACTD]
into ARPA'"
SECRET RANGE CONDUCTS STEALTH, FOREIGN TESTS, July 3, pages 62-65:
- - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------------------------------------------
This article, as part of a South African Air Force (SAAF) special, describes
the Air Force's Test Flight and Development Center, and the adjacent Overberg
Toersbaan (OTB) Test Range, which was built as a space launch center, but is
now used as South Africa's "Area 51", at the southern-most tip of Africa. At
these sites, the SAAF is conducting stealth-related tests, and is offering
its services to Eastern European and Asian clients to upgrade their products
to western standards.
Kentron, a South African company is offering the stealthy "Flowchart 2" UAV,
which has a double-delta wing, inward canted rudders, and is appropriately
painted black overall. It is designed to develop systems to detect stealthy
aircraft and cruise missiles. Other possible uses for this stealthy target
drone are reconnaissance and surveillance and, equipped with a warhead,
stand-off penetration and attack.
The facilities were operational since 1987, and most of the fully integrated
systems and sensors are mobile to allow high flexibility and fast testing.
Several tests, including stealthy UAVs, stand-off weapons, weapon and
avionics integration and stealth-detection systems are under development
there. The site was also used to develop and upgrade the Cheetah fighter,
stand-off ground-attack missiles, UAVs and for analyzing foreign equipment,
like Russian-built SA-9s, captured in Angola.
They also have a fully instrumented flight test range, a satellite ground
station, space booster integration facilities, complete with clean rooms,
and a radar calibration tower. The 43-mile wide range, which offers multiple
camera tracking, Doppler measuring system, and high-speed photography, can
be extended south, by using camera-equipped ships, and up to 100 miles inland
with truck-mounted cameras, to allow OTH tracking of two-stage missiles at
altitudes of up to 44 miles.
The whole complex has the flavor of a secret James Bond arch-foe site written
all over it. I can virtually see Dr. No, Goldfinger, Largo, Bloomfield, and
Co. running around there. :)
- - - - - - - - - - - - -- Andreas
- - - - - - - - - - - - --- ---
Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org
313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu
Flint, MI 48502-1239
Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/
- - - - - - - - - - - - --- ---
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