Buffy, Buffy, Buffy

Okay. I have to stop reading the wild feed (early satellite review of the new Buffy episode) because I don't enjoy the show as much. I can't even evaluate this season because of the wild feed.

But damn, Angel. The head. Wasn't expecting that.

Talk about Buffy! Or Angel! Or the new Buffy animated series, or the spinoff series Giles might get on the BBC, or the move to UPN. Whichever.

-- Anonymous, May 16, 2001

Answers

Over on MBTV, people are saying last night's episode was the worst
episode ever. (Okay, some of them always say that.) Do you agree?

-- Anonymous, May 16, 2001

Not quite worst (Beer Bad sucked more than anything I can remember),
but a good step below the usual quality (and last weeks- the
production values- ack! I saw the face of her double- how'd that get
past?).

But know what? I don't care. Cordelia can be my princess any time.

Have I mentioned that before?

-- Anonymous, May 16, 2001

I actually liked the last Buffy, though I'm fast losing interest in
Angel.

People are complaining about the way SMG looks, that she's lost too
much weight, that she's looking worn out, ect... Now, while I doubt
it's the case, and SMG's insane for going along with it if it is, but
I think that her wasting away is actually really good for the
series. Her unhealthy look almost makes it seem like she's being
devoured slowly by the Slayer-spirt that's inhabiting her and that
the human parts of her are dying away.

Anyway, they finally explained why Dawn didn't blab about the
Ben/Glory connection which needed to be done.

-- Anonymous, May 16, 2001

Ack. It was one of those "advancing the plot so we get to the place where something actually happens"
episodes. Except--yay Willow! I have been so sick of the wispy, damp dishrag Willow we've had since Oz went
away and Tara showed up. I like Tara, but c'mon! Give these women some backbone! (and better clothes and
no pink rabbit eyes, but that's another bitch.)

And can I say that Glory is a lot more fun than past Big Bads? Mega personality and acting chops.

Here in Austin, the rumor is that Time Warner is dropping UPN. I don't know how I'll survive.

M

-- Anonymous, May 16, 2001

And I thought I was the only one who loved Glory! She's definitely
one of the better Big Bads. Though I am so missing Drusilla.

Last night's ep, wasn't bad, but it was just plot advancement, so not
terribly exciting. They're setting it up for Joss' traditional big
finale episode. Just business as usual, really.

And I know my friends and I are the only people to love the "Beer
Bad" episode. I thought it was great satire of freshman college life.

-- Anonymous, May 16, 2001

I was really liking the whole Ben-and-Glory-blending-into-each-other
thing, in which she starts feeling guilty, etc. I enjoyed her for a
change there. (Though really, explaining why Dawn didn't remember the
switch THIS late in the season?) And yay Willow for that episode.

I enjoyed the (spelling?)Gruselak being a human bit, but waaaaaaaaaah
Lorne. Waaaaaaaaaaaah. He was the fun one on this show, dammit. I
knew he shouldn't have come along, I knew it (and you'd think his
psychic friend could have picked this up!). My ex was all "Well,
maybe he's not really dead," and I was like "How the HELL is he not
going to be really dead?"

-- Anonymous, May 17, 2001

So did you guys get that it was Joss Whedon doing the Dance of Honor
and the Dance of Joy? He played that demon guy.

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2001

I wasn't able to watch the shows this past Tuesday night, but I got the tape from a friend, and have just remedied that.

I liked this week's episodes of both shows, actually. The second half of this season has redeemed Buffy for me, after a rocky start. I liked Willow's taking control, I liked GloryBen freaking out, and I liked finally getting an explanation for Dawn's Ben/Glory memory lapse, although I'd have preferred more foreshadowing on that front in the intervening episodes. On the whole, though, good episode, I thought.

As for Angel, this plotline's been working remarkably well, with some nice character development on Angel's part, and a bit for Cordy, too. Would that the same held true for Wesley and Gunn, but I suppose you can't have everything. And it looks like the Karaoke Demon has finally bitten the dust. I may have to do the Dance of Joy.

(The Karaoke Demon was fun, yes, but he also was all wrong for the tone of the show. I like Angel darker. Lorne served his purpose this season; now I'm glad to be rid of him.)

-- Anonymous, May 20, 2001

On an entirely different note... I suspect this deserves its own thread, but the point I'm focusing on seems to fit here: the fall lineup. Has anybody else been following this? Here's how it looks for our two favorite shows...

(Well, my two favorite shows, anyway.)

Yhe WB is going to be airing Angel on Monday nights at 9 PM, putting it a day earlier than its progenitor, and no doubt complicating any crossover plans Joss and Co. might have been planning. This also puts it against Ally McBeal on Fox, which fails to disturb me.

On Tuesdays, UPN has Buffy in its usual 8 PM time slot... while the WB is moving Gilmore Girls to that time slot. I'm now very glad that my reception of the WB is so bad in general that I've never tried to get into Gilmore Girls.

Continuing on Tuesday nights, UPN continues the "which network is this?" trend at 9 PM with Roswell, scooped up as soon as the WB dumped it last week, while the WB debuts Smallville, about the youthful adventures of one Clark Kent.

Any thoughts?

-- Anonymous, May 20, 2001

Shmuel: yeah. I'm mad. I like Gilmore Girls. I only saw a
few episodes because it was opposite Survivor and
Friends, but I was hoping to catch up on reruns this summer.
But now there's no reason for me to bother, since I'll be missing it
next season, too.

I don't know why networks do this. They put shows up against other
shows targeting the same demographics, as if young women only watch
TV on Tuesdays at 8, and young men only watch Tuesdays at 9, or
whatever. It's just dumb.

Plus, moving Angel to Monday means I'd have to add an entire
extra TV night to my schedule, which probably means I'll stop
watching Angel. Or else tape it to watch on Tuesdays after
Buffy.

-- Anonymous, May 20, 2001

Gilmore Girls and Buffy at the same time? Say it ain't so! I *never*
end up watching shows I tape. As for which show I'll pick: My husband
and I both love Gilmore Girls, so that's a shoo-in (he digs Lorelei--
aka the mom--, I dig Luke the coffee guy, so it works out
beautifully). We've been watching Buffy on and off, the past couple
of years--in fact, this is the first season in a while that we've
actually watched the show in season instead of during reruns.
I had no idea Dance of Joy/Dance of Honor Demon was Joss Whedon. I
fell off the couch--honest to goodness fallng off--watching him, I
was laughing so hard. Goofy, stupid stuff like that cracks me up to
no end (yes, I used to laugh during Balky "Perfect Strangers" dances,
too!).

-- Anonymous, May 20, 2001

I am so pro-Lorne, you don't even know. I think he's hilarious and I
was shocked and sad to see him beheaded. Sorry, Shmuel. If it was
up to me, they'd resurrect him with all speed.

I read something interesting in the preview of next week's TV guide,
but I don't want to spoil anything. Let me just gently point you in
that direction.

I am now wondering if Dawn will survive the season. These shows are
so much better when you don't read spoilers.

-- Anonymous, May 20, 2001

"I don't know why networks do this. They put shows up against other
shows targeting the same demographics, as if young women only watch
TV on Tuesdays at 8, and young men only watch Tuesdays at 9, or
whatever. It's just dumb."

er... but that's why they do it. They're in competition for your
eyeballs.

-- Anonymous, May 21, 2001

Yes, but it stands to reason that there is a larger pool of 20 to 30-
something eyeballs for them to grab on, say, Wednesday night, when TV
sucks, than on Tuesday night. If they put Gilmore Girls up against
Buffy, there are going to be a lot of eyeballs that they are just
*never* going to get. If they put it on Monday or Wednesday, when
there's nothing else on that targets the same demographic, they'd get
more eyeballs overall.

See what I'm saying?

-- Anonymous, May 21, 2001

On-topic: I've enjoyed most every Buffy & Angel episode since Day
One. Some were better than others, obviously, but I'm so un-critical
of these shows it's embarrasing. The good I soak up like a sponge,
the bad I simply ignore.

Off-topic (but apropos previous posts): Regarding the head-to-head
scheduling conundrum, when Tivo-like technology moves from the
fringes to the mainstream, we'll think back on these days and just
shake our heads at our woefully stone age viewing habits. The days of
TV schedule headaches are truly numbered.

-- Anonymous, May 21, 2001

Gah. I read the Wildfeed. I suck. I'm weak. I know what happens
tonight; I know how the season ends. Fuckity fuck fuck fuck. I was
going to avoid spoiler boards altogether this afternoon, when the
wildfeed was expected, but I thought I was safe this morning, and
there it was, and I read it.

Because I'm evil and I want someone to feel as dumb as I do. That's
why.

-- Anonymous, May 22, 2001

There's really nothing there folks- just a nifty little plot twist
spoiler that certainly more entertaining if you don't read about it
ahead of time.

-- Anonymous, May 22, 2001

Beth you are just MEAN.

But i refuse to click on that link. Hear me? I refuse!

Of course i also have to avoid pretty much everyone who likes Buffy
until tomorrow night. It's bad enough that they put Buffy on at 5 pm
here (who is the lunatic who decided that one?!) but i have to wait
until Wednesday to see it. I wish i was on the same night as you guys.

Alas.

You know, i thought the Dawn thing was so stupid at the beginning. I
thought, "Oh please, what's with the sudden sister thing? This is
ridiculous, i hate Joss!" Then of course he threw in the perfectly
reasonable explanation as to why everyone but the viewers had
memories of Dawn, and now i've grown to like her a lot and i so don't
want her to die. I hope she makes it through.

I also hope that we see some shirtless Spike. But that's a whole
other story.

-- Anonymous, May 22, 2001

I'm finding it remarkably easy to not click on that link. While I'm
eagerly awaiting tonight's episode, I've learned my lesson about
spoilers.

As for Lorne, I really liked him, but I really hope they don't
backtrack & put his head back on. Much as I like him, I think they
overused him a bit.

But lines like "Hans Christian Tarrantino" crack me up.

-- Anonymous, May 22, 2001

Oh. Wow.

That was an amazing season finale. Simply brilliant.

After finally managing to read the tombstone through the haze of my mediocre reception, I lost it, spending the next couple of minutes simulaneously bawling my eyes out and laughing hysterically. Which is an interesting combination.

It's a pity that I know Sarah Michelle Gellar's contract isn't due to expire anytime soon... but who knows, maybe they'll shock us all and leave her dead. A guy can hope. I mean, what a great way to go...

(It's worth keeping in mind at this point that I like tragedies.)

I can't wait to see what they're gonna do next, although obviously waiting is exactly what I'll have to do for the next few months.

Wow.

Okay, with that having been said, on to the nitpicks:

1) Didn't the Buffybot seem to be acting awfully out-of-character? How thorough a reprogramming job could Willow have done on it on the spur of the moment?

(I know, I know, it's a universal law of television and movies: any computer whiz can do anything with a computer or robot with just a few keystrokes. I'll let it go.)

2) Umm... I'm pretty sure there was more, but it escapes me now. I may get back to this later.

As for Angel...

Okay, I was disappointed by the first scene. As soon as Cordelia starting talking to the head, I knew it was going to talk back, but I was desperately hoping I was wrong. But alas. Lorne returns. Mo rejoices, while Shmuel sulks.

Otherwise, good episode on the whole. And the ending was well done, I thought.

Nitpicks:

1) Why would Lorne's family fail to dismember his body upon delivery?

2) The Groosalugg doesn't stand a chance, you know. ...although, come to think of it, Cordelia may be the one person in that room who might plausibly not have realized that. At least the way she's been acting in the past couple of episodes.

3) Cordelia wants the visions? Since when?

Once again, I'd been pretty sure there was more. Hmmph.

Okay, questions and speculations on both shows:

1) Is Glory/Ben in fact dead? This may have been a reception issue on my end, but it wasn't clear to me whether this was accomplished before all heck broke loose.

2) For that matter, did the rest of the Scoobies all make it through?

3) Y'know, for a tombstone to be there already, the Buffster presumably had to have been under for a few months. Whatever they have in mind can't be a quick fix.

4) On the oncebitten list, Jason suggested that if Buffy returns, we'll end up with three Slayers. Think so, or will the mantle revert solely to Faith now? My money's on the latter, but what do I know? But, hey, anything that gets Eliza Dushku back on the show is fine with me.

5) Back on Angel... Fred is cool. I like Fred. I wonder what'll happen with her next season.

6) Y'know, the visions have been transferred with a kiss before. I wonder if a full com-shuk is really necessary?

7) Why'd Lorne have to live? Why, Joss, why?!

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2001

I have a tape of Buffy, Beth, should the need arise.

Wow. This was a fine episode. I'm wondering what is going on with
Giles, though. First there was the thing with Glory's minion, where
Giles distracted everyone and when they turned back, the minion was
falling all over himself to cooperate. Then there was last night:
"She's not like us." Hmmm....

Dawn putting her clothes neatly on the chair and lining up her shoes
underneath really got to me, as did Spike.

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2001

I thought it was a good, well done episode, but I'm strangely unmoved
by Buffy's "death" at the end. The show is BUFFY the Vampire Slayer,
and she's under contract for 2 more years. She can't be dead, so
they'll just have to do some time-travel, alternate universe
dimension thing to get her back.

That said, I'm looking forward to the Buffy/Angel crossover to see
how they do it. I'm hoping there's some great jealousy interaction
between Angel and Spike.

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2001

See, I don't think it will play out that way. I think they're going
somewhere else.

We had conflicting theories around our house last night. To wit:

The whole UPN idea was a hoax; the show ended last night. (That
was Jeremy. He didn't know this was coming.)

Buffy's going Obi-Wan on us. All that "Dawn is a part of me"
stuff wasn't just foreshadowing for the ending last night; it was
foreshadowing for next season. We'll see Buffy moving on to some
higher level and acting as a guide for Dawn. This was Jeremy's
theory, but I liked it because I don't think they've totally
fulfilled the, "You think you know, what you are, what's to come ...
you've only just begun," thing from last season. It's the what
you are part that I don't think has been answered, and I think
maybe Buffy is something other than a Slayer now -- if she wasn't
before last night, she is now.

Sarah Michelle Geller really meant it when she said she wouldn't
go with them if the show left the WB, and so Michelle Trachtenberg
will be taking over as Buffy, as constructed by the monks. We
were really drunk by the time we got to this one.

Buffy is Aslan. I wish I could take credit for this one, but
someone on another board came up with it, and I just filled in some
spots. If you've read The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe
and the rest of the Narnia books as many times as I have, you'll kick
yourself for not getting this one.

In "Restless," last season's finale, there were about a dozen
references to Narnia. This season, what did we get? We got a vain,
powerful female tyrant trapped in a world other than her own. She
was cruel to her minions and turned innocents into stone (well, into
lunatics -- and Tara is totally Mr. Tumnus). Even after the
good guys won the bloody battle, we got a ritual sacrifice at the
end. Except it was stopped by the intervention of a hero -- someone
willing to take the victim's place.

And what happened then? Aslan willingly took Edmund's place on the
sacrificial stone. He was killed (really killed, it was bloody and I
think they even buried him) but "deeper magic" resurrected him
because of his selfless action.

So if this plays out, I don't think the Scoobies will go to another
dimension or travel in time or anything. That would make light of
what Buffy did. I think the Powers that Be will reward her for her
actions by giving her back her life, but I also don't think it will
be the same. Buffy won't be the same as she was before.

Buffy's dead, but Sarah Michelle Geller will be back as a wise-
cracking ghost.

Buffy's dead, but Sarah Michelle Geller will be back as the
Buffybot, with her head reattached just in time for many wacky
adventures with much wackiness of the very wacky sort. (I did
mention the drinking, right?)

Incidentally, Jeremy and I both liked the episode and *were* moved by
the character's death, just because we don't think they'll bring her
back the easy way.

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2001

The hoax, if true, would've been brilliant. But impossible.

Obi-wan? Ack. I hope not.

And if they pull some "parallel universe" thing, that'll rank up
there with "it was all a dream" on Dallas. Yes, *that* bad.

So what to do? Don't know. But if anyone writing today can pull it
off, Whedon can.

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2001

I didn't start to cry until they showed Spike bawling.

You don't hurt my poor little Spikey-man. That hurts me.

A point well made on other boards is this:

Angel is owed a life from the PTB because of Darla or somesuch (I
don't remember it very well) and thusly, Willow goes to see Angel at
the end of their episode and Angel pulls his get-out-of-death-free
card and uses it for the Buffster.

Course, that brings in a whole crossover thing which is going to be
hard to work with them on two different nights and networks. But
Joss likes a challenge.

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2001

Yeah, I saw that too. Then I saw this LA Times article, quoted on the same
message board, in which Joss says they really can't do crossovers
anymore, at least not right away, because of the acrimony between the
two networks. But he does say that a planned Angel crossover next
season has been scrapped and another character will fill that
role ... if it's already planned it must be big, so maybe. Maybe
it's that butler guy from the Darla episode, coming to deliver the
good news.

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2001

My pet theory of the moment:
Okay, Buffy died under VERY unusual circumstances - jumping through a
rip in the interdimensional fabric, right? So, maybe Buffy's soul
went somewhere other than where human souls normally go when they
die...and Willow, using her new kick-ass Terminator-level magic
ability can stick Buffy's soul into the Buffybot!
So the slayer's a robot from now on. It's not so crazy.
Harold
wonderland 2
http://www.fukushu.com/wonderland2/

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2001

She's still gonna be around. I love Joss. But I'll kill him if it's
excessively cheesy.

Okay, I can't make that link work, and it's not Mar's fault, it's a
Greenspun glitch. Even when I edit it the board puts a space after
the question mark. To see the message, just cut and paste the link
into your browser, and then delete the space.

Oh, what the hell, it's a post by Joss from the Bronze (official
Buffy message board); I'll just steal it too:

joss says:
(Wed May 23 08:28:44 2001 4.41.196.128)
Somewhat more coherent now. Just want to say again, finally,
definitively, and in LIVING color that BUFFY WILL BE BACK NEXT SEASON
STARRING Sarah Michelle GELLAR (of television's "Buffy the Vampire
Slayer")on UPN, TUESDAYS at 8:00.

How will we bring her back? With great difficulty, of course. And
pain and confusion. Will it be cheezy? I don't think so. (I've loved
some of the theories here on how it might be done.) The fact is,
we've had most of next season planned before we ever shot this ep.
Same writers you know, same actors you love, same crappy little
warehouse we've been shooting in for five years... Different network.
But we've never been controlled by the network -- WB was great about
that, UPN has already shown they will be too. The only difference is
that Marti will share exec prod credit with me, and it's about time
she did. I'm in charge.

Okay, that's a lie. The STORY is in charge, the story that keeps on
speaking to me, that says there is much more to tell about all these
characters. An ensemble this brilliant could easily carry the show
even without the Slayer -- but the fact is, even though she reached
some beauty closure, Buffy's story isn't over. When it is, I'll know.
And we'll stop. Til then, have faith. (not faith the character --
she's making movies and stuff.) And to answer a few other inevitable
questions:

Feh on Marti Noxon, she of the bad episode writing and incomplete
name. She is undeserving of all the the praise and responsibility
Joss has heaped upon her head.

SHE would never do the Dance of Honour.

Anyway, I feel like rambling about the episode more.

I was unspoiled, which is amazing for me. Completely dumb and
unprepared for the end, I just sat there in shock and eventual tears
and wondered who I could complain to about it. I almost called Beth
to cry.

The Xander/Anya sex was unecessary. In fact, the whole scene in the
basement was dumb. Dumb proposal, dumb bunny, dumb everything.

Spike was perfect throughout the entire episode.

Willow and her "I'm not your strongest weapon" thing.

"I'm a cudgel! Or... or a pointy stick!!"

Since when was Anya's ex-boyfriend that she trollified a "God"?
Contrivance has come to dinner and made himself comfy.

Stupid epitaph. And that gravestone went up pretty quick over that
mound. Joyce didn't even have one that fast.

Also, Angel was pretty goddamned stupid. I think they should have
done the com-shuk and then brought loosey Grusey back to LA with them
so that Cordy won't get sick from all the fun visions.

But as someone said, the Gruselag was a bit too Riley-esque for his
own good. Generically handsome and every bit as boring.

Oh well.

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2001

Right, that was the nitpick I was forgetting: Xander's proposal. Please. He's been running around and under siege for the past couple of days, but somehow he found the time to nip out to the jewelers? Or perhaps he's been toting it around for days waiting for the right moment, finally deciding that the end of the world qualified? Come on. Very badly handled, and utterly unnecessary, I thought.

Nice catch on the troll's non-Godly status, by the way. I wish I'd noticed that... did Anya actually say that the troll was a God, though, or just that he wielded a Godly hammer? Because the latter is plausible...

[Shmuel surfs a bit.]

Hmm. That's interesting. In the shooting script for Triangle (the troll episode), there is a reference by Willow to the troll's "enormous godly hammer," in a scene that appears not to have made it to the air. At least, I don't remember it, and it's not in the transcript.

Hmm.

I loved the epitaph, though (see above for "laughing hysterically while crying"). I thought it was a perfectly worded bit of understated humor, very Scooby-like. And, yeah, my assumption is that the final shot is intended to be from some time later; if I'm wrong about that, I'll share your complaint, Mar.

Over on Angel... the more I think about it, the more I wonder if perhaps the com-shuk was performed? The priest's translation was that it was a "mating ritual." He didn't actually specify coitus.

I know, I know, extreme longshot, and Cordy almost certainly would have felt something if the transfer-with-a-kiss approach had worked again. But, hey, everybody needs a loony theory, and that's mine, so there! :-)

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2001

Oh, and Beth, I love the Narnia angle.

Although, you know, that makes the whole thing a Christian metaphor at one remove. Hmm.

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2001

Eh, you don't have to take it that literally. I think C.S. Lewis was
doing a lot more with Narnia than just writing a Christian allegory,
so I think Joss could be drawing on that without intending the
Christian overtones to carry over, except to borrow the images and
themes of sacrifice and redemption. And anyway, Narnia was in many
ways a retelling of Paradise Lost, which makes the Buffy story *two*
removes away from a Christian metaphor.

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2001

Well, I feel a bit better after reading all the posts. I was in total
disbelief last night and almost boycotted Angel. :-)

I forget who posted the lines about how Spike bawling his eyes made
them upset, but anyway: I am right there with you. I was
screaming "Oh, no, they better not kill Spike..oh my god they are
going to kill off Spike...no, not my Spike, not my Spike..." even as
Buffy was doing her arc of death. Shows where my priorities are. :-)
(P.S. In retrospect I felt a bit silly get all worked up about a TV
show--I am an *adult* for god's sake. *Adults* don't get worked up
over Buffy. That lasted until I got into the office, and my 40
something manager's first words were "Oh my god, did you see Buffy
last night?")

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2001

Anya said the troll was a god. She said something like "Or how about
the Troll God's hammer?" That was annoying as hell.

Can someone give me a quick recap of what happened with Willow at the
end of Angel? I had turned it off by that point because the show
annoys me.

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2001

The end of Angel is a bit hard to do justice to, as it's pretty much
nonverbal, relying on a very good performance by Alyson Hannigan to
work. But here goes, reconstructed from memory:

ANGEL, CORDY, WESLEY, GUNN, and FRED all come crashing into his
apartment, jubilant at having successfully returned from the demon
dimension.

ANGEL: I wanna say it! There's no place like--

ANGEL sees WILLOW, seated. She rises as they approach.

ANGEL: ...Willow?

WILLOW looks at ANGEL sorrowfully. Her expression says it all.

Silence.

ANGEL: very softly ...Buffy.

Silence.

Blackout.

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2001

Beth I think you're right about the Narnia thing. After all it's the
classic story of the hero (Joseph Campbell) as exhibited by the
Matrix, Jesus Christ, Aslan, Luke Skywalker etc -- a hero/heroine of
dubious birth (well, we've never seen her dad, have we), phrophecy,
miracles, sacrifice for mankind, and ultimately a transformation
wherein the heroine gets stronger powers or transcends the
constraints of bodily form. Didn't Joss say that Buffy would be
getting stronger powers these season? Death and coming back from
death will permit her to somehow transcend reality.

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2001

Anya said the troll was a god. She said something like "Or how
about the Troll God's hammer?" That was annoying as hell.

Yes, but she used to date him, remember? In the episode "Triangle"
wasn't it stated that back when they were both humans she got mad at
him for fooling around with another wench and either turned him into a
troll or got another witch to turn him into a troll and then he was
imprisoned in the crystal.

Never in the episode was it said that he was a god. He was just a
troll. A big strong guy with an enchanted weapon. Having Anya call
him a "Troll God" was just a shameful plot contrivance (in my oh so
humble opinion).

My god I need a life.

http://www.marr

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2001

Yes, but she used to date him, remember?

Actually, Kaela's agreeing with you, Mar; she was responding to my question about whether Anya actually called the troll a god in the most recent episode; we're all agreed that he wasn't described as any such thing back in "Triangle."

Having been set straight on this point by both of you, I concur, and once again wish I'd caught this myself.

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2001

Okay, it was a very well done season finale. I enjoyed it. I do have
to wonder how they will be getting out of this one. But...

I just can't get past the big freaking hole in the logic buffy used.
Follow me if you will...

1) Once the ritual starts, the rift will remain open until the flow
of blood stops
2) Therefore, Dawn would need to die to close the rift (um...
bandages? but okay)
3) Dawn was made out of Buffy, is a part of her, etc.
$) Therefore, if Buffy dies the rift will close

I don't get it. If the life needs to stop to stop the flow of blood
(a perfectly logical premise, since they were saying blood is life),
and that Buffy and Dawn are somehow connected in such a way that
their lives are equal in this respect (or the same life, or
something), the logical conclusion I come to is that they would
_both_ have to die to end the badness. Buffy sacrificed herself, but
Dawn... still bleeding. Blood still flowing.

Anybody else notice this? Anybody else spend a bit yelling at anyone
who would listen (including the cat and the television) about how
that didn't make any sense? Anybody else maybe take geometry proofs a
bit too much to heart? Or was it just me. (I want it to make sense, I
really do... but it's just a big leap I've seen no evidence to
support) (pun not intended)

My theory, which I made up and which is mine, is: Dawn was bleeding
on the girders, from which the blood dripped onto the appointed spot
and opened the rift. She got untied and moved away from that spot.
Buffy happened to jump through the rift at the same time that the
last bits of Dawn's blood were dripping off the girders. That stopped
the flow onto the spot and closed the rift, making Buffy's sacrifice
unnecessary. (I like that theory, but then I may be a sick and
twisted individual).

I did wish that really was the finale, though. (Especially if anyone
has anything I missed to support Buffy's odd logic). That would have
been an excellent way to finish it all. (Buffy's chapter ended, and
everyone else has to carry on without her... final but with the sense
of continuing into the future). Knowing it isn't over cheapens it all
a bit, for me. But then again, sick, twisted, callous & strange me.

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2001

Okay i finally got to see it and oh.my.god.

At the very least i can say i never saw it coming.

In fact, during a beer refill, i told George (who couldn't care less
about Buffy) that i didn't think they would all make it through, i
thought someone would die, but then i thought "Okay, i think i read
an interview where James Marsters signed on for another season, so it
won't be Spike, and it can't be Buffy, 'cause you know,
Buffy right?"

Color me surprised.

Giles killing Ben/Glory rocked though.

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2001

I just can't get past the big freaking hole in the logic buffy used. Follow me if you will...
1) Once the ritual starts, the rift will remain open until the flow
of blood stops
2) Therefore, Dawn would need to die to close the rift (um...
bandages? but okay)
3) Dawn was made out of Buffy, is a part of her, etc.
4) Therefore, if Buffy dies the rift will close

Yeah, I wondered about that at first myself, Ashley. Here's what I came up with:

The way the rules were described was a bit misleading, which Buffy finally figured out. The way it was always put was that once the blood flow started, the rift would remain open until the blood flow stopped, which would happen only upon Dawn's death. As you point out about, if this were strictly a matter of stopping Dawn's blood flow, there'd always be bandages, making this a less than logical explanation.

It really works like this: The Key's bleeding (at the right time) opens the rift. Once that rift is open, the issue isn't stopping the blood flow per se; rather, once the rift is open, the rift can be closed only through the sacrifice of the Key. There are two seperate events: the first drop of blood, and the surrendering of the whole, rather than one continuous process.

Buffy's insights are that it's this total sacrifice that's necessary, and that her kinship with Dawn gives her the unique ability to subsitute herself. Given that she's close enough to take Dawn's place, once one life (of the Key or surrogate) is given up, the requirements are met, and the rift closes.

Why, then, wasn't it worded that way? For one thing, it's a safe bet that nobody imagined a scenario in which -- once the Key started bleeding -- the rift would close in any way other than the Key's death; thus, for all intents and purposes, one could indeed say that it would stay open until the bleeding stopped. For pro-rift activists, the main concern would be to keep her alive long enough, the caution being not to cut too deeply, to prevent her from dying too quickly. Anti-rift activists' concerns would be to either prevent it from opening, or, barring that, to nuke the Key as soon as possible. The explanation given, while slightly inaccurate, sufficed for all known intents and purposes.

For that matter, remember that the Key wasn't originally a human in the first place; everybody's translating the rules to bring them into accordance with Dawn's status. The original probably had something to do with starting the energy flow, with the rift closing once the energy was depleted completely. Pure energy doesn't have blood, and -- more importantly -- pure energy doesn't have sisters with almost identical DNA. The possibility of a substitute wasn't considered because the energy in question presumably had no parallel elsewhere. If the Key hadn't been incarnated as a human, it wouldn't have ended up with somebody else's blood type in the first place.

(Needless to say, Spike's "it's always blood" rule becomes inevitable only once the Key is in human form.)

Make sense?

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2001

Ok, Shmuel... I think I can work with that... (Kinda wish they'd
given us a little more to back this theory up, or point to another...
but maybe next season?). Or maybe _starting_ the energy flow would
open the rift, and once the rift had consumed the energy (what was
meant by 'stopping the flow', perhaps), it would close... It consumed
Buffy (in a sense, at least), and so closed.

Well, at least it's enough to let me accept the ending and move on...

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2001

I think the reason the Powers That Be owe Angel a life is because he
went through this trial to save Darla. He almost got himself killed,
and definitely got banged up, but managed to finish the trial.

However, when he and Darla went up to the guy who was supposed to
heal her, the guy told them he couldn't do anything for Darla because
she had been dying before being made a vampire (of syphilis, I
think). Then when they brought her back as a human again, she
suffered from the same incurable disease she had when she was a human
the first time. So there was nothing they could do to save her, and
Angel's efforts were in vain.

I think.

-- Anonymous, May 24, 2001

Needless to say, Spike's "it's always blood" rule becomes
inevitable only once the Key is in human form.

I saw this discussed elsewhere ... although because the Key was human
the bloodletting was necessary to release the energy, it's possible
that a ritual bloodletting would have been necessary even if the Key
had been a bicycle pump. There might have been a need for a
sacrificial victim -- that's a scenario we've definitely seen before -
- and it's even possible that the sacrificial victim was *supposed*
to be Buffy (or someone who shared her blood). Think Angel and
Acathla.

On another topic, best damn line on either show for the whole season
goes to Gunn ... "You go to hell, and I spend eternity in the arms of
Baby Jesus."

-- Anonymous, May 24, 2001

Don't follow the following link unless you want definitive answers on
which cast members are coming back next season - and if you haven't
watched the finale yet, it will completely spoil what happens if you
aren't already spoiled.

That being said, I was thrilled to read this interview with Joss,
even if there was one piece of news I found yucky.

http://www.tvguide.com/newsgossip/insider/010524a.asp

-- Anonymous, May 24, 2001

I am too weak to resist spoilers, when they are thrown in front of
me, but after I read them, I hate myself for being so weak.

Really stupid question (and I do mean really stupid): are we going
to find out that the slayer has some kind of connection to ... oh,
please forgive me for this one ... a cat? I've just been getting my
Buffy fix by reading old scripts, watching old shows, and the cat
thing keeps coming up:

In Graduation Day Part II, Faith has a cat in her dream, Buffy
asks who's going to take care of him, Faith tells her it's a she and
these things take care of themselves. Then the cat keeps dissolving
into Faith, and vice versa.

In Restless, Willow and Tara have a big discussion about Miss
Kitty Fantastico, about why she hasn't told them her real name yet,
and they decide it's because she's not all grown up yet. That plus
the "you think you know what you are" stuff about Buffy has always
made me think Miss Kitty is supposed to represent Buffy, and the fact
that no one knows who/what she really is yet.

In Intervention, the big mountain lion led Buffy into the desert
to meet the first slayer.

I'm just wondering if this is going to be some sort of nine lives
thing.

Another thought that occurred to me ... I think Buffy wasn't entirely
correct when she said the Monks made Dawn out of her. I think she
had it backwards ... I think we might find out next year that the
Slayer comes from the same energy source as The Key, which is why the
monks thought it could be used for good. Just a hunch.

And finally, for those of you who are Chinatown fans, the Buffy Shooting Script
Site has the finale script up, and you'll like this bit of
dialogue that got cut:

And while I'm at the shooting script, you might compare these two
bits of dialogue from the season opener and from the finale:

XANDER
Why blood? Why is it Dawn's blood,
why couldn't it be, like, a lymph ritual?
SPIKE
'Cause it's always gotta be blood.
XANDER
We're not actually discussing dinner
right now.
SPIKE
Blood is life, lackbrain. Why do you think
we eat it? It's what keeps you going, makes
you warm, makes you hard, makes you
other than dead. 'Course it's her blood.

And from a discussion about Dracula:

XANDER
(eyes still on spider)
Well, that is intimate. Dracula's
gifting these ladies with his own
blood. And blood - blood is life!
(quickly)
According to them.

I confess I swiped that from another site. It would be kind of lame
if the fact that Buffy drank Dracula's blood tied into her
resurrection, assuming she has one.

-- Anonymous, May 27, 2001

I thought the whole flashback thing before Buffy jumps explained why
she could substitute for Dawn... "your gift is death," i.e. dying for
Dawn. No?

-- Anonymous, May 28, 2001

I think whatever happens has to be related to Buffy's sacrifice
and not the fact that she's a Slayer. If it were related to being a
Slayer, why didn't Kendra come back when she was killed? That's why
I'm not sure about the nine lives thing, Beth, although I think
you're onto something with the cat issue. Nearly everything else from
Restless turned out to be prophetic, so that must be too.

So, I don't have any answers, but I'm betting it has to do with
Buffy's sacrifice.

Plus, my cable system finally picked up a UPN station, so now I
can watch next season. I'm so excited.