Both my wife and I are U5a1a (Clan Ursula) members and my Y side I am an R1b1c. We believe we are part of the Vandals, Visigoths, and the Normans groups of people who settled in Sicily - who were ancient Vikings/Scandinavians.

Some believe - that the U5a1a was from German - and made it's way to the UK. I believe they came from Russia - a traveled into Scandinavia - along the Northern rim into the UK. This is why there is large numbers in Finland - then in Scotland - then central Portugal.

Join Date: Dec 2005Location: Oslo- NorwayPosts: 156Hi Pdhotlen and J Man, I speed read the article by Kivisild et al. 2006, but it is very technical with a lot of stuff that is difficult to grasp.

This study supports that the origin of U5 is in northern Europe: That must include areas such as Britain, Ireland, Germany, the Nordic areas and all the other countries in north western Europe, then north eastern areas such as Poland, the Baltic areas North Western Russia.

As for haplogroup V they found that the U5 lines studied originated in Northern Europe. However haplogroup U5 is somewhat older (22.000 +-5000 years BP) than mtDNA V.

This means that the coalescent ages of U and U5 are younger than previously estimated for instance by Richards et al. 2000.

Take a look at this reasoningTwo haplogroups from the same mtDNA HV founder (16000 +- 6000 years old) have developed and adapted differently to dissimilar climate exposures:

Haplogroup V is attributed a northern European origin because its bearers have adapted to the cold climate by “processing amino acids” like Threonine and Valine differently than persons with the much younger haplogroup H (9000+-1000 years old) that developed in the warmer climates of the Middle East and in Southern Europe.

When haplogroup V is cold adapted then haplogroup U and U5 must certainly have this kind of cold adaptations because of its age in Europe. It seems reasonable that all the northern origin subgroups of U, such as U3, U4 and U5 would have adapted to the cold climates while other subgroups of U that developed in warmer climates probably do not processing the amino acids Threonine and Valine in the same ways. This assumption needs to be checked.

U5, U5a and U5b they survived and adapted to the cold during the LGM: U5a is estimated to be 18.000 +/- 4000 years old and U5b is estimated to be 13.000 +/-4000 years old.

Many studies conclude that U5 people migrated south to the Iberian refuge during LGM. I have no idea if U5a and U5b came from different refuges, but it does not make sense when one look at the wide distribution in Western Europe. Then Cheddar man has very old relatives in Britain. It is very likely that U5a over wintered in Iberia, but of course these facts does not rule out a more eastern refuge in Northern Europe.

With the age estimation of U5a and U5b it is likely that these subgroups developed while in LGM Refuge. People seem to have repopulated the British Isles about 16000 years ago, and the U5a people very likely were around at that time.

U5a is as shown by Bermisheva et al. to be most frequent in some western Asian / Siberian populations at the present. If U5a developed in another refuge than U5b it might be that they went to refuges in Ukraine or on Balkan and later migrated in different directions to populate most of Europe both in the east, west and south. This makes sense when one consider the present distribution pattern of U5a. But of course J Man might be right - the older age of U5a may have contributed to the more wide distributions of this subgroup compared to U5b.

U5b and its different subgroups are very low frequently distributed all over Europe and is observed in North African Berber people, and the U5b1 frequencies is extreme in the Saami. The genetic connection between the Saami and the Berber people seem to be a very old one, about 9000 years back in time. The area of Urzulei on Sardinia has extreme values of U5b (source Cristina Fraumene et al. 2006):U5b1 only 3.5%U5b2 20.7%U5b3 56.4%

The U5b people have clearly been present in central European areas for a long time, probably since the last Ice Age. These observations support the theory that the U5b people were in an Iberian refuge but of course there is a possibility for that U5b people over wintered LGM in more northern areas than Iberia. The specific and area restricted U5b1 motifs in the Saami may also be a support of the Iberian theory or at least that they took a western European path northwards along the Norwegian coastal line with the Hamburgian migrations. Archaeological findings of settlements in Norway dating back 12000-10000 years BP must have been made by the first hunter and gather populations in Europe. And since U5a people are not very frequent in the Nordic countries compared to U5b people, it is more likely that U5b were the first settlers of the Nordic areas.__________________

New here but not new to World Families. My maternal DNA results were:U5 and U5aI have been asked to upgrade to the fulll sequence. Exactly what will that net me?I have also been asked to upgrade to the full sequence for the paternal DNA testing I had my brother do. There is a special on that right now. I am paying for both of our testings. I've read a lot about both of our results. His was R1b1b2 (M269).My cousin and I both did the maternal mtDNA and were rather surprised at the results. We were searching for our ethnic heritage and didn't what we were looking for with that DNA testing. But I did find what we were looking for via Father Hebert's genealogy books and a Louisiana website.How can this upgrade help my cousin and I otherwise? I don't believe she needs to upgrade since we are of the same maternal background. Our mothers were sisters and this is my project.Thanks.