I'm looking for some insight from both Parents of the very young, and you young CalGunners.

First some background: I want to make this long-gun purchase before the paperless intrafamilial transfer gets aborted on Jan 01, 2014

Second: 2 kids, boy/girl twins. They are different, VERY, from each other. I can't predict before hand who is going to like what. But likely they will want different types of action.

As new shooters (trained on an old Benjamin .17 pellet gun) I don't want semi-auto on the table. So I'm looking at single-shot (Rascal/Cricket), lever-action, and bolt-action 22 caliber Rim Fire (this should also keep them off the DOJ radar for a few years before they are made felons for their assault-cowboy-guns)

Everybody who talks about lever actions, and I mean every single person on CalGuns who writes about them in posts, loves them. I personally really really like that the Henry and Marlin shoots 22 short, long, LR. But at 7 pounds that's pretty damn beefy for a 7 year old.

Are there any other/lighter quality lever action 22's out there? Any that you all would recommend?

Another gun I have my eye on for them is the new Ruger American in 22LR. It has 4 interchangable stock options for LOP and comb-hight, interchangable mags with the 10/22 and adjustable trigger, looks like out-of-box perfect, but still 5.4 pounds. Can likely be had pretty cheap ($250) but not as cheap as the single-shot Rascal @ $150.

Once kids get the hang of shooting, is a true single-shot bolt-action an annoyance that turns them off of shooting?

"Youth" rifles are *light*, with the Rascal and Cricket coming in near 2.5 pounds, less than half the weight of more "full sized" guns. This in my mind sounds pretty important. But if the kids are going to be shooting off a bag/elbow for the first few years, maybe it doesn't really matter?

What say you? Is rifle weight all that important, or is a heavy-for-a-child rifle merely an inconvenience that goes away quickly as they grow up (and just as quickly outgrow a youth rifle)?

Lots to think about, hopefully you guys can give me some food for thought. I want to get the kids something they can learn with, and grow up with, and love to shoot after they've moved out.

A nice appropriate bolt action and for later maybe a 10/22. I am 60 years old and still have the 22 rifle my dad would hold and I would pull the trigger because I was too small to hold the rifle by myself.

__________________
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I got a CZ 452 Scout when I was 10 or 12. It is such a great little gun. I'm 21 and still shoot it at the range, since it's so cheap. It's nice when my friends come who don't own guns, so I let them use that. It's funny because the Rangemaster came up to me and starting talking about the .22, even though I have a Colt 6920 sitting on the same table.

Never had any problems with the thing. It is short, fairly light I guess, and it's fun to shoot.

My dad got a Ruger 10/22, was the first rifle I ever shot. That was over 16 years ago and I'm 26 now, I still store that gun in my safe, and it still shoots better than the .22LR range toy I bought from GSG.

@tANNERRRR: That CZ scout looks really nice, and I've heard nothing but good things about CZ .22s, if I had only one child to buy for, I'd probably spring for that. But being that I need to give them each a rifle (I want shooting to be fun, not booooorrring waiting for brother/sister to finish) its a little rich to spring on short notice. Great suggestion though!

@Everyone who says 10/22: there's already one in the family, outfitted with the blackhawk axiom stock for adjustable LOP. Very happy with that and they will get to shoot it once I'm satisfied that they are obeying the safety rules every time without being reminded.

Looking deeper into the subject, and watching the review on Gunblast youtube, and some others I've decided based on features and ultimately weight/size that the Savage Rascal is the answer for me. 2.66 lbs, adjustable trigger, and as they grow up, the size will again let them toss it in a backpack with a handful of 22 in the pocket and head out to plink in the forest or shoot some frogs/squirrels for food if needed.

In order not to induce jealousy, a new Ruger American Rimfire 22LR compact will be coming home on the same day so Dad will have a bolt to work as well.

There may actually be an advantage to teaching a child on a semi-auto rifle: they will learn that they can never assume that the rifle is NOT loaded and ready to go bang, even after being fired or a round ejected from the chamber.

__________________"The Second Amendment is a doomsday provision, one designed for those exceptionally rare circumstances where all other rights have failed—where the government refuses to stand for re-election and silences those who protest; where courts have lost the courage to oppose, or can find no one to enforce their decrees. However improbable these contingencies may seem today, facing them unprepared is a mistake free people get to make only once." - Justice Alex Kozinski, 9th US Circuit Crt of Appeals

There may actually be an advantage to teaching a child on a semi-auto rifle: they will learn that they can never assume that the rifle is NOT loaded and ready to go bang, even after being fired or a round ejected from the chamber.

That's true, making a bolt-action "safe" is a pretty clear and obvious action. Making a semi safe is definitely more involved. Not hard, but when you are very young, and dealing with live ammo, those steps must be followed in order, correctly every time.

perfect for both adult and child alike.. weighing in at just over 5 lbs. it is a compact, lightweight, rugged, enduring and long lasting tactical "AR conversion" 10 22. You can pick up the razor 10 22 as an 80% and it takes about 45 mins to complete the entire lower with a drill press. (because of the barrel hole I wouldn't recommend only using the drill press but it can be done and it is how i did it.)

*PLEASE NOTE, THAT I DO NOT OWN OR KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT ANY RUGER'S OR 80% LOWERS OR ANY FIREARMS FOR THAT MATTER. ESPECIALLY NONE THAT PROTECT THE RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS OF INDIVIDUALS.*

I had a youth single-shot bolt action for my kids. Lasted about 2 years and then they were done. They have 10/22's now. I would just buy "one" youth gun for training, and then buy them what they would like after they grow up.

Like you with the recent ban proposal I was scared of possibly the rimfire being banned. I went and bought some parts to build a custom 10/22 for my daughters first rifle. After building it, I found the hogue stock to be too long for her to get a good sight picture and the rifle was far to heavy for her to hold up. I ended up taking her to a local gun shop yesterday where they happened to have a black cricket in stock. I had her pick it up and manipulate it. She was able to get a great sight picture as the stock fit her just right. Although I am going to have her shoot it off a bench, I still wanted her to be able to shoot it standing which she was able to support it just fine.

Another worry I had was the Ruger being a semi auto. I figured I would just load the mag with one round at a time as I did not want any mishaps while teaching her how to properly manipulate the gun.. But as all of us parents know, with a 6 year old, nothing is guaranteed. I like the idea of the cricket being a bolt action single shot, especially while learning.

I ended up ordering her the mossy oak pink cricket. I figured she will eventually grow into the Ruger and when she does, the cricket will become her little sisters.

__________________5.1.11 "Tonight we are a country awakened to danger and called to defend freedom. Our grief has turned to anger, and anger to resolution. Whether we bring our enemies to justice, or bring justice to our enemies, justice will be done. We will not tire, we will not falter, and we will not fail." George W. Bush 43rd President (2001-2009)

perfect for both adult and child alike.. weighing in at just over 5 lbs. it is a compact, lightweight, rugged, enduring and long lasting tactical "AR conversion" 10 22. You can pick up the razor 10 22 as an 80% and it takes about 45 mins to complete the entire lower with a drill press. (because of the barrel hole I wouldn't recommend only using the drill press but it can be done and it is how i did it.)

*PLEASE NOTE, THAT I DO NOT OWN OR KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT ANY RUGER'S OR 80% LOWERS OR ANY FIREARMS FOR THAT MATTER. ESPECIALLY NONE THAT PROTECT THE RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS OF INDIVIDUALS.*

That would be an 80% Ruger 10/22 pattern receiver milled out (to a fully 100% functional receiver) as a home-built firearm and built up with standard 10/22 aftermarket parts.

Foregrip is legal as "evil features" only applies to centerfire guns in California. One only need be concerned with min/max barrel and over-all lengths depending on if your home-build is a rifle or pistol.

Bought a pink cricket for my 1yr today as her 2nd gun before 2014. I gave her a AR already. But a cricket is a great training platform. Single shot will teach her ammo isnt free and to make each shot count Cant wait till I can take her out. But that be a long while before that happens.

If I had the money I would build her an AK and buy her a 10/22. But she's got a good start already owning 2 guns at 1 yrs old.

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Don't you know the rule?? Never open the safe in front of the wife!!!

I picked up a CZ 452 for my son. what I liked about it is it has a "single shot" magazine but also takes the normal 5 or 10 round magazines. this is wha made it appealing vs a cricket. a cricket is single shot only and when they outgrow it you'd have to purchase another riffle. so with the CZ once he out grows single shot, all I have to do is swap out the magazine.

I went with the Rascal as well. Wish there was more very adjustment in the sight. But overall very happy with it. With most kids rifles you can probably get your money back passing it on to another family. I also think the rascal could make a great base to build a packable rifle around. So fun and LIGHT.

I already got 795s for them once they outgrow the rascals, just wait for a good sale or deal.

I'm looking for some insight from both Parents of the very young, and you young CalGunners.

[...]
Everybody who talks about lever actions, and I mean every single person on CalGuns who writes about them in posts, loves them. I personally really really like that the Henry and Marlin shoots 22 short, long, LR. But at 7 pounds that's pretty damn beefy for a 7 year old.

Are there any other/lighter quality lever action 22's out there? Any that you all would recommend?

[...]

Once kids get the hang of shooting, is a true single-shot bolt-action an annoyance that turns them off of shooting?

"Youth" rifles are *light*, with the Rascal and Cricket coming in near 2.5 pounds, less than half the weight of more "full sized" guns. This in my mind sounds pretty important. But if the kids are going to be shooting off a bag/elbow for the first few years, maybe it doesn't really matter?

What say you? Is rifle weight all that important, or is a heavy-for-a-child rifle merely an inconvenience that goes away quickly as they grow up (and just as quickly outgrow a youth rifle)?

[...]

Thanks for your input guys!

I've got three kids, and the two older ones learned shooting with a crickett, the third one is not quite there yet. Yes, the weight of the rifle is important. Both of them enjoy shooting that little rifle because they can easily handle it in any given shooting position. If I had to make that first rifle purchase again, I'd go with the Rascal, since the trigger on that one is significantly better.
My older son learned with iron sights and was getting solid hits out to 65 meters by the time he was 8. His younger brother did not get the concept of the irons and got frustrated... until I made a small picatinny rail for the crickett and mounted a TRS-25 red dot on it. Now they both have fun with that little single shot.

Both of them also enjoy the Henry Lever-action. When I got it, I called up henry for a shorter stock. I told the guy at CS what I was up to and he recommended NOT getting their youth stock but one of their "b" grade adults stocks and cut it down to size for an 8-year old. First off, the stock that came in was better than the one on the rifle (rifle was purchased used). The modification took me less than 30 minutes. My younger son can shoot it prone and supported, my older son can shoot it prone and kneeling.

My older son is now 10 and the rifle that now works best for him is a Ruger 10/22 with a Blackhawk Axiom stock. That stock is patterned after an AR with collapsing stock. All the way forward, this rifle works for him, all the way extended, I can still use it. And it is light enough for him to shoot free-standing. Just from my perspective, since there is a chance that 22's may be classified as assault weapons by 2014, you may want to look into getting one of these.