IMO . . . genuinely stunned, Yoda was . . . but then the diminutive green one milked it for all he was worth as he lay motionless on the ground (eyes slowly opening) to draw in an over-confident and completely unsuspecting Palpatine.

The Novel made out that Yoda could not have won, but on viewing the movie I could have almost scored it even. Sidious gets points for aggression, but the environment, especially at the finale, played a big part.

The Novel made out that Yoda could not have won, but on viewing the movie I could have almost scored it even. Sidious gets points for aggression, but the environment, especially at the finale, played a big part.

I agree, it does just look as though the Senate was not very good place to duel. I should think Yoda was probably winded following the fall - he was too distracted fighting Sids to land, and when he saw his cloak fall onto the pole, he realised the Force was telling him to give up.

Yeah, I think they both surprised each other at the beginning, but in the end after the duel, Sidious seems to have the upper hand.

Agreed. Sidious got the upper hand on Yoda at the beginning of their conflict but Yoda struck a surprise blow just as suddenly. After they drew their sabers, they were both ready for what the other would bring to the duel.

Yeah, I think they both surprised each other at the beginning, but in the end after the duel, Sidious seems to have the upper hand.

Agreed. Sidious got the upper hand on Yoda at the beginning of their conflict but Yoda struck a surprise blow just as suddenly. After they drew their sabers, they were both ready for what the other would bring to the duel.

Yes, but do't forget that Sidious tried to run away before hand... after he saw Yoda get up after his Dark Attack, I think he knew that Yoda would be a tough challenge...

IMO . . . genuinely stunned, Yoda was . . . but then the diminutive green one milked it for all he was worth as he lay motionless on the ground (eyes slowly opening) to draw in an over-confident and completely unsuspecting Palpatine.

THIS.

EmeraldBlade said:

As to the overall fight:

The Novel made out that Yoda could not have won, but on viewing the movie I could have almost scored it even. Sidious gets points for aggression, but the environment, especially at the finale, played a big part.

I have said this before, and this thread is a worthy place to say it again: Palpatine's tossing of the Senate Pods is THEE single greatest use of the Force in all the saga; especially when you compare that to how tedious it was for Yoda to lift a single X-wing from the bog. Sidious called upon the Force solely 'to attack' and what an awesome display it was.

It took everything Yoda had to reflect Sidious' lightning barrage.
And, when they 'blew-apart' Yoda fell, while Sidious cackled.
Yoda looked beaten to me as he scurried through the walls, but Palpatine looked like he could go another 12 rounds.

Daft-Vader said:

Yes, but do't forget that Sidious tried to run away before hand... after he saw Yoda get up after his Dark Attack, I think he knew that Yoda would be a tough challenge...

To me... that was SOOOO 'out of Character' for Sidious. It makes no sense to me that the man who trained Maul (who WE KNOW wouldn't run from a fight with ANY Jedi) would try to bail from a one-on-one showdown with Yoda. I don't know WHAT Lucas was thinking when he decided on making Sidious leap for the doorway...

It looked dumb then, and is still just as dumb to me now.

EDIT:
The only thing I can think of that Yoda had his "Bruce Lee/Enter the Dragon" moment with Dooku and so Lucas wanted to give him a "Ken Watanabe/Last Samurai" moment with Sidious.

The Novel made out that Yoda could not have won, but on viewing the movie I could have almost scored it even. Sidious gets points for aggression, but the environment, especially at the finale, played a big part.

I have said this before, and this thread is a worthy place to say it again: Palpatine's tossing of the Senate Pods is THEE single greatest use of the Force in all the saga; especially when you compare that to how tedious it was for Yoda to lift a single X-wing from the bog. Sidious called upon the Force solely 'to attack' and what an awesome display it was.

It took everything Yoda had to reflect Sidious' lightning barrage.
And, when they 'blew-apart' Yoda fell, while Sidious cackled.
Yoda looked beaten to me as he scurried through the walls, but Palpatine looked like he could go another 12 rounds.

I agree that Sidious thowing the Pods was impressive, but Yoda can be seen stopping one and making it spin and throwing it.

I disagree about the blew-apart sequence, if you watch, Sidious looks like he is really straining at the end to try to get more of his 'unlimited power' to try and fry Yoda, which doesn't work, Yoda is probably more stunned from the fall at the end...

SithStarSlayer said:

Daft-Vader said:

Yes, but do't forget that Sidious tried to run away before hand... after he saw Yoda get up after his Dark Attack, I think he knew that Yoda would be a tough challenge...

To me... that was SOOOO 'out of Character' for Sidious. It makes no sense to me that the man who trained Maul (who WE KNOW wouldn't run from a fight with ANY Jedi) would try to bail from a one-on-one showdown with Yoda. I don't know WHAT Lucas was thinking when he decided on making Sidious leap for the doorway...

It looked dumb then, and is still just as dumb to me now.

EDIT:
The only thing I can think of that Yoda had his "Bruce Lee/Enter the Dragon" moment with Dooku and so Lucas wanted to give him a "Ken Watanabe/Last Samurai" moment with Sidious.

I agree it does seem a bit out of place. All I can offer is that Sidious knew that Yoda was the only Jedi (bar Anakin) who did have the power to destroy him. As we know, Sidious has a lot of will power in wanting to stay alive, and so knows when to fight and when to withdraw. He was using the Sith's new knowledge about hiding, (from the 1000yrs yrs where the Jedi Thought the Sith were gone) that kept them safe for. Maul I feel had no patience, and was to eager to kill the Jedi at the expense of the future

The duel between them was done well enough that Sidious didn't come across as a Gary Stu, and neither did Yoda. I liked that Palpatine went 'ass-over-tea-kettle', it made him REAL. When the jump towards the door happened, it felt weird. Then, everyone laughed at Yoda's dialog and the showdown thing took off...

Aside from blowing off Maul's warning about the Jedi's motives and the melty-man-face, Palpatine's leap is the only other 'odd' thing about his PT characterization.

Agreed. Personally I never quite cared for the way he "fell" into his chair after Yoda counter-attacked. It seemed to silly to me. I would have rather seen him thrown into the wall or the desk with the same force that he exerted on Yoda.

I agree. And about his constant laughing.. I didnt really like that either, i dont really recognize the emperor from Rotj, who i think was great. I wish Sidious had been more like i remembered him in Rotj, he had a darker.. more threatning precence about him then.

I ab-so-lutely loved every single *CACKLE* that came out of Palpatine's mouth.
Think about the depth of his diabolical-glee, a thousand years in the brewing... it just boiled over. He was soo bloated by the darkside, that he couldn't help himself. Even after he got blasted over his desk...

His *CACKLING* set the tone for Senate duel.
When he was chucking the POD's, the look on his face was priceless.

He was giddy like a school kid that found a dozen cookies inside his lunchbox instead of a baloney sandwhich.

I wouldn't say the tossing of the senate pods was the greatest use of Force in the saga - - but it was awesome. However, to me Lucas was highlighting pre-burn Vader in that regard throughout ROTS. Nonetheless, Yoda-Sideous was pretty rad all around, I thought both showed up for the party in a pretty cool fashion. I think that it was more difficult than both thought it might be - for different reasons - but as Yoda admitted, Sidious was the man of that battle.

The "Battle of Wizards," as EmeraldBlade so aptly terms it, is the chili pepper spice that spikes the punch of the Mustafar sequence.

And I tip my virtual hat to Massster Sx3 for brilliantly identifying Palpatine's pod throwing scene as the most awesome display of force powers in the entire six film saga!

I noted earlier, and still believe that Yoda was truly surprised by Palpatine's force blast in his office. But just like Rocky Balboa, this was not a knockout blow. Yoda used every possible moment "on the canvass" to regain his senses and appraise what the Sam Hill just happened to him.

The rest of the Senate Office scene is just the tease, a tit-for-tat that leads each wizard to puff out his chest and stand their ground as we are led into the fangasmic pod fight,

There, atop the pods of democracy which literally represented the fate of the Galactic Republic, Palpatine confidently tossed the pods about like pebbles into a stormy, white-capped ocean while Yoda dodged the fierce force onslaught, struggling for his (and the Republic's) survival.