03 April 2012

Anfield legend Mark Lawrenson insisted yesterday that Liverpool manager Kenny Dalglish would not be sacked at the end of the season, arguing that the club's owners would not make a 'knee jerk reaction' after a 'couple of poor results'. The prevailing view amongst fans also seems to be that Dalglish will be given another season to turn things around at Liverpool, but I wouldn't be so sure. Recent events at the Boston Red Sox suggest that John Henry and his FSG partners can be pretty ruthless when dealing with failing managers, and this may not bode well for Dalglish.

When it comes to the art of biased understatement, Lawro is clearly without equal: a 'couple of poor results'? With respect to the former LFC defender, it's far worse than that, and the Liverpool's statistically aware owners will not be fooled by attempts to sugarcoat the truth. The reality is:

* 8 league defeats in the last 12.* 6 defeats in the last 7.* Relegation form of 8 points out of 36 since the turn of the year:

* Three defeats in a row twice in two months.* Worst Home record since 1953.* 5th lowest home goalscoring record in the league* Outscored by Blackburn Rovers; Same league goals as Roy Hodgson's West Brom.* Failure to achieve the stated goal of finishing in the top 4.

Etc.

Liverpool have not performed this badly in the league for decades, and that includes the Roy Hodgson era. Even Graeme Souness did better in his first full season than Dalglish (!)

The name Terry Francona may not mean much to Liverpool fans, but it should, and there are concerning parallels between the plight of the Boston Red Sox's former manager, and Dalglish's current reign at Liverpool. Francona managed the Red Sox for 7 years between 2004 and 2011, and wracked up some impressive achievements, including:

* Highest post-season winning percentage in the league.

* First manager in MLB history to win his first 8 games in the World Series.

* Won 4 games in a row to Claw back a 0–3 deficit and win a playoff series in 2004, the first time in MLB history that had ever been achieved.

* Only the second Red Sox manager in history to win two World Series titles.

After leading the Red Sox to a second World Series title in three years, Francona was rewarded with a renewed 3-year contract, with further options for 2012 and 2013.

Things were looking good, and became even better in July 2011 when Francona got his 1000th win, only the second manager in Red Sox history to achieve that feat. Then, like a wrecking ball, came black September, a fateful month in which Francona presided over the worst performance collapse in baseball history.

* A 7/20 record for the month (20 defeats and 7 wins), which was Boston's worst since September since 1952.

* Francona's team squandered a 9-game lead over the Tampa Bay Rays and missed the play-offs.

* No team had ever missed the postseason after having such a large lead in September.

According to the Boston Herald, "On the scale of collapses, perhaps only the Berlin Wall was greater". Red Sox Owner John Henry described it as 'a terrible, terrible month for the fans'.

Despite the impressive achievements and two World Series titles, what came next was inevitable: Henry declined to take up Francona's option at the end of that season, and under the guise of 'mutual consent', he was fired.

It wasn't just that record-breaking collapse that led to Francona's demise - there were several other concerning issues to consider, as Globe columnist Dan Shaughnessy explained at the time:

"There were plenty of real issues that led to Francona’s demise. With a $161 million payroll (third highest in baseball) and 15 former All-Stars, the Sox finished third for a second straight season.

"Francona lost the clubhouse. He loved his players, covered for them, and they turned Fenway Park into Delta House. It was Pete Carroll Redux. Treat them like men, they run all over you, then say, “You messed up. You trusted us."

Sound familiar? None of this bodes well for Dalglish.

* Liverpool have missed out on Champions League football for a third season in a row (the second time during Henry's tenure as principal owner).

* The Red Sox's failure to make the play-offs was a major catalyst for change, and it could be the same at Anfield with the Champions league.

* The club is currently experiencing a horrendous league collapse, which is arguably on the same level as the Red Sox's September 2011 capitulation.

* This season has been defined by Dalglish's misguided support for his under-performing players. Like Francona, he has pig-headedly defended his players to the detriment of his own reputation, and the club's.

* Liverpool have one of the highest wage-bills in the Premier League, and Dalglish has spent 117m since returning to Anfield, for very little return.

When his time at the Red Sox came to an end, Francona insisted:

"It’s my decision. It was my decision. I think it’s the right thing to do for the organization and myself"

He went on to take a parting swipe at the Henry et al, which suggests - as most observers suspect - that he was fired:

"To be honest with you, I’m not sure how much support there was from ownership. You’ve got to be all-in on this job. It’s got to be everybody together, and I was questioning that a little bit".

The brutal truth is that Francona's achievements, title wins and lengthy tenure at Fenway Park didn't cut any ice with Henry or FSG; baseball - like football - is a results business, and after only one bad month, it was all over for the 'best manager in the 111-year history of the franchise'

Unfortunately for Dalglish, it's not just one bad month for Liverpool; it's seven, with the last four being particularly catastrophic. Indeed, things are so bad that Anfield legend John Aldridge broke ranks today and labelled his hometown club a 'laughing stock'.

How much support does Dalglish really have from John Henry and Tom Werner? The Carling Cup is no 'World Series', and if the Francona situation is anything to go by, it won't be long before we hear Dalglish uttering the following parting refrain:

"It’s my decision. It was my decision. I think it’s the right thing to do for the organization and myself"

210 comments:

I can't understand those who say there is basis for Dalglish to be given another year. You could give time to managers who have potential (like Villas-Boas), but Dalglish has thoroughly demonstrated that he has no understanding of modern tactical play and transfer judgement, so there is no potential of improvement from him.

What they fail to mention is that he had been in charge for 8 years! Yes 8 years! After having won 2 world series and been there for 8 years it would seem appropriate to change coach in a disastrous year. This shows they take a long term view with coaches.

This is not the same as being in charge for 8-9months into you first full season. I think he will get another year kenny!

Thanks for this article Jamie. Very professional put. To be honest, KD is stuck in the 80's. He is only still in his job because of his "legend status". He keeps covering up for players, over-hyping petty achievements and giving the excuse that "this is a long term project" stuff.

The players he has bought are average therefore he cannot be trusted with more money. Over £100M is crazy money.

I hope FSG have a young manager in mind so he can start making tranfer plans.

I don't think Dadlish will get fired as the "fans" will cause mass anarchy and from a business point of view it will be a bad decision. I am sure the owners will ask K to step down if they are not happy at the end of the season.

Personally I want K to go as he is clearly not the person to take us forward. The season speaks for itself.

I didn't say I (or others) definitely know he has. It's a comparison between a young manager who achieved success just a couple of years ago, followed by lack of such this year, and a man who was manager last time twelve years ago, and has now shown all signs of not being able to grasp some of the necessary aspects of modern game. Of these two, one would attach more potential to the first candidate, wouldn't one?

The "sack the manager" mantra after just one full season in charge is a recipe for disaster. With the new rules of financial fair play, employing a new manager who will want to spend big on new players will be very difficult. The only way forward is give the existent management team time to get it right, hopefully they will have learned from the mistakes invariably made this season and put them right for next season.As for any comments made by John Aldridge holding any weight, he was in charge the season Tranmere got relegated, so what he knows about management I could write on a stamp and still have space to write "Wembley penalty miss".

Sacking Kenny before the end of the season will be stupid, so he should continue till the end of the season but if team doesn't improve the form then he should be sacked at the end, but even if he is not sacked next season then he doesn't have any more scope for making errors at all. Signing players for next season will be the key, he can't repeat his mistakes, fans are getting frustrated because of him, he is talking about progress made by the club, which is visible off the field but progress has not been made on the field and instead club has gone backwards in that respect.

we need a manager that is upto date with todays football, kenny as much as i hate to say so is out of his depth in the modern game.

personally i think he already knows that he needs to stand down when the season finishes after all fsg were not bending over backwards to appoint him in the first place were they.

he did what was required and steadied a very rocky ship at the time he took the job, the problem is fsg trusted him with a 3 year contract when it was best to bring in a new man last summer with kenny moving upstairs as an ambassador for the club.

thats what im doing right now all day and night, praying for this to happen asap but I think kenny should stay until the end of season because theres no point getting a new manager in this stage of season its going towards the end so let kenny do whatever he wants,then soon as the season is finished kenny must be sacked in the first day, FSG should be thinking about the new manager now they have time to think it so when the summer comes we should be having a new man in charge,my options are hiddink and murinho im sure they at least can take us to CL, I hear lots of you talking about rafa return...dont know really hes good but dont forget hes made lots of mistakes in transfer windows just like kenny bought many useless players rather than useful, rafa had his chance for 6 years he couldnt do much so other managers deserve a chance now rafa is a past we look into the future, but I admit id take rafa any day instead of kenny thats for sure right now id even make carra the manager and id sack kenny thats how things gone

The point is: they take a long term view with coaches that are succeeding (as it was for Kenny in the latter half of last season), but when a shockingly embarrassing run ensues, they get rid. Hopefully...

Also, 2 world series in 8 years was seen as a MASSIVE success, yet they were still ruthless.

I personally wouldn't like to c him sacked. It would b great if he did move upstairs and still b involved with the club.He did unite the club and the fans when he took over last year and that in itself is some achievement. But the time is to move on and there is no place for sentiment. For me any one from BIELSA ,AVB OR BENITEZ.

Sick of the constant patronising of people with different views to yourself having blinkers on!!!!! people entitled to have their opinions of you, some have a little more faith and patience and the people I read seem (IMO) to have more football knowledge and not hide behind OPTA!!!!Just a question JK, how many times have you been to Anfield this season?Just wondering, not having a go or anything??

You were spot on here Jamie, it has reached an all time low, startin to feel sorry for Kenny, he is tarnishing his own name, if we get knocked out of FA, i think he should jus hand in resignation and announce it at the end of the season. As much as we as fans r not happy with him lets do as Jamies advocates, let all respect him, but we cant tolerate this for another season

The sooner people realise that we are building a team to challenge into the future the better. LFC are no longer going to be challenging for the title in the short term and we must remember that as fans. The truth is after we lost to Arsenal especially we realised that 4th place was a no go and having already won the Carling Cup, Europa League was already in the bag so what is the point of the league games now for them? FA Cup Semi to look forward to which can hopefully lift the club after this SHORT TERM form!

If this happened at the beginning of a season like with Hodgson then fair enough but as we already had the points in the bag and not in a million years going to be relegated then I see this as a dip in form, granted a big dip in form, but perhaps a time to start playing our youngsters, the Shelveys / Sterlings / Morgans of this club. This is the perfect time to blood some of the youngsters and KK is the man to do that job.

Too many senior players are going missing in games and I'm afraid Gerrard and particularly Carra can be at fault here. It's no coincidence that after Agger's injury we are on a downward spiral.

To reiterate...we are a club that is building to the future, if you want to sack the manager after a few bad games in the second half of the season after all the negative press about our club then feel free to support Chelsea or Man City because you are not a true red supporter but a glory hunter! We will be back and when we are back we will be the force to be recognised once again!

I agree, Bekin - I don't think KD will be sacked per se; liek Francona, he'll probably leave of his own accord after being privately told that he has no choice. Hopefully, this will happen in the summer, and not before.

I would like to see KD leave as he arrived: in a fanfare of positivity.

Kenny has not shown any sign of being a suitable manager for a club like this in this day and age. His methods look outdated and he doesn't look as if he has learned any new tricks while he was away from the dug out. At this stage, it is unlikely that he is going to improve now, and if he were any other manager, people would have already accepted that this season was not good enough.

So you'd be happy if Roy had got a few years yeah? Do you seriously think John Aldridge is wrong in saying we've become a laughing stock?! Have you spoken to fans of any other teams? Anfield was recently a ground where teams lower in the league would fear to tread. Now they see it as a good chance to get 3 points. And don't even get me started on how the whole racism issue was handled, some of the worst transfers in uk football history and the relentless blame-passing/wingeing about bad luck (a sure sign he hasn't learnt from his mistakes btw).How bad does a manager have to be to be sacked after 1 year, or do you believe they have a god-given right to stay for the length of their contract no matter how disastrous it is for the club?

I do hope the Yanks have a few people they talk to about football (soccer as they call it), as this is a new environment for them. I do hope one of the football advisers they had originally wasn't KK! ;)

Am I the only one who feels sorry for KK. So many games this season we have destroyed teams and come away with a draw or a defeat. We have played some of the best football we have for some time and have nothing to show for it. This destroys confidence and self belief. Kenny has tried to keep a brave face on this and praised the team even when they haven't deserved it to keep confidence high and unfortunately after the arsenal game which again we dominated again and lost we have imploded. Kenny, understandably doesn't know what to do but who does? Personally the players should be taking the blame here but so rarely do. IMO if the owners give Kenny another year they will be rewarded, however this summers money needs to be spent wisely.

Bob, I agree in principle with what you are saying, but I have to take issue with you over your comment, ' if you want to sack the manager after a few bad games in the second half of the season'! The rot had set in well before Christmas and, sorry, but we haven't had a few bad games, we have had a shed load of them! The opportunity to play the likes of the reserves you mentioned was available all the time. It was never taken. They are now getting games only as a sop to quench the frustration and even anger, that recent results have provided. This IS the time to play the youngsters. The fans will be very supportive of the new lads, they will certainly not be subjected to the abuse that some of the alleged 'stars' are getting for under performing. Give them a proper chance, not 10 - 15 minute cameo rolls after the regulars have churned out their usual dross and we are already a goal or two behind. I would rather see us finish the season going down with all guns blazing rather than capitulate in the manner that we have been doing of late. (And to all the cretins out there, when I say going down, I don't mean relegation !!!).Yes, we are building for the future, but Dalglish has to accept that quite a few of the existing first team squad shoud have no part in that future !

Forget Rafa. Why are Liverpool fans always stuck in time. Time to consider others and move on. I didn't think Rafa was great. Look at the Aquilani transfer and the way he sets up Liverpool's team. Defensive in some games when we ought to be more offensive and vice versa. Perhaps its time for other coaches like maybe Pep Guardiola.

I know its 2012 but even the mayans never saw the cataclysm coming that is now engulfing LFC , this must not be allowed to continue but what can we do ? give kenny another year because its the morally and sentimentaly right thing to do ? Or throw the towel in and adopt the mentality of every other top club in Europe and change the manager as soon as the season ends ?

We are LFC - and Kenny Dalglish is rightly beloved by all but this cannot continue into next season , it cant - the 2nd half on sunday showed the world that there is something deeply wrong within the club and its eating into the hearts of the players and kenny probably most of all.

I dont think so I cant say I agree with you. The potential to win the PL of CL as a manager comes down to a lot of things. I understand what you mean but I dont think AVB offers greater potential because he is young.

That's fair, but do you believe Dalglish has the potential to learn and improve in his age and with the mentality he has? He doesn't even seem to accept there are major issues with the team, performance and results.

Hey people, Capello is available, Hiddink is (i think), Rikaard is. Its a pitty Ancelloti is at PSG now, he had specified he prefers the EPL. If it means FSG going back to Rafa so be it, he was never a terrible manager, he just never got enough cash to buy the players he wanted. He was always given small change worth average players due to the Yankees who never really backed him. So, given a list of candidates, King Penny would not be in my first five! No need to try and protect Dalglish, he is hopelessly clueless and stuck with plan A (if ever that is in his vocabulary). So, face it, his crown is going if not gone. For him to retain some dignity and a bit of crown left, he best step down after the Villa match regardless of the result! £100m is a lot of cash on donkeys, which is what he bought. So, adios amigo Dalglish!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

everytime I see Lawrenson speaking in his flippant arrogant manner I feel like being sick.He along with Hansen can stick the boot into AVB,Rafa,and any other foreign manager but not their golfing buddy.It just goes to show John Henry came over said he knew nothing about football,he listened to the so called experts who in a wave of nostalgia backed Dalglish.John Henry must be sitting at home with his head in his hands with feelings of despair,and feelings of being let down by so many people.Still slimey Lawrenson who cant sit straight still backs Kenny.I thought people on the BBC had to give a balanced view due to it being funded by the taxpayer.

lol. yes sure pep would come, cant see any top managers jumping for the job, mourinho, not a chance. i had a bad dream bout alan curbishley bein in charge. so unreal. but not out of reality the way things are going!

Some people in this blog like to be called fans. Could you all stop moaning and go and do your work and leave Dalglish to do his.If you lots had a clue about football you wouldn't spend your days writing crap articles to make yourselves look important.Really? Dalglish doesn't know what he is doing? And you lots know everything cause you read a couple of crap newspapers written by losers called pandits that are desperate to have something to say as they have never manage to achieve anything and if they were worth something they would be involved in football. Not talking crap all day long.

I have been wondering for quite a while now just how will FSG deal with a failure to meet set targets....

The Carling Cup as we all know is just paper over the cracks...yes it was great to secure some silverware but the league is where it is really at.....the 2 previous managers were judged on their league form so surely Kenny should also....

I personally think their patience (FSG) has already been tested to the limit with the Suarez Evra saga which tbh Kenny handled so badly that that in itself should be enough reason IMO to seriously reconsider his tenure as manager at the Club...the fact that we have underperformed in the league to the extent that our 2012 form is higher than only Wolves who are already GOING DOWN should be ringing alarm bells the size of big ben.....

Make no mistake about it our new owners will be fully aware of the very tricky siktuation they are now facing....this is a direct challenge to their authority and standing at the Club....

We are all aware just how hostile our own fanbase can be.....how they could easily be triggered into an ANTI OWNERS stance by any perceived harsh treating of certain IDOL players (Suarez Riena..) or more importantly the manager.....

So far i think they (FSG) have managed to swerve any potentially challenging situations but this summer will be when they will know that the spotlight will be very much on them.....esp if Kenny decides to stay put.......

In this respect they have my sympathies, i wouldn't want to be in their shoes and have to make the call on certain decisions that are thrusting themselves into the owners faces and demanding a reaction..........

I like Henry & Co, i like the fact that they are genuinely interested in the sport....unlike H & G, i feel that they have the right approach re how to handle tricky situations, they don't like bad press but won't cower from it if a difficult situation arises....

IF they consider replacing Kenny i would back them tbh, though i would want them to deal with certain player issues also......i just hope that the fanbase is not gearing itself up for an all out attack if they don't approve of any decisions that the owners are forced to make for the betterment of LFC.......

In this respect i agree with Jamie that Kenny should stand down at the end of the season, we are not going to turn our league position into anything respectable....we are only in Europe next year because of an unconvincing final win on pens against Cardiff.....

It is also quiite possible that Reina and Suarez will be off in the summer perhaps with 1 or 2 other senior players, which will im sure also put plenty of spotlight on our owners esp if they have to sack Kenny because he wouldn't stand down when he should of......

It could be all become very divisive detrimental and problematic for our new owners and Club.....there is for sure a much bigger picture here... i know what side of the fence i will be on though, FSG have done little wrong in my book and i'll definitely be defending them if need be.....

ultimately, the ownus falls on the manager to get the job done. In KD's case, the first half of the season was a turbulent ascent into a straight up nose dive into the second half of the season. Looking past KD's position you've also got to look at Comolli. Being the one in-charge to bring in new talent, he has actually failed more so than Kenny. I can see comolli being shipped away before dalglish but if the owners feel that they can bring in a new manager to the position who'll do better, than he'll be fired. Truth is that Liverpool are in crisis at the moment. The good name of Liverpool F.C has been tarnished this season with a number of incidences but, we must look past those times and begin the proper re-build. YNWA!!!!!

Couldn't agree with you more on Hansen, Lawrenson and co. Very quick to put boot to Rafa's behind anytime Rafa dropped a point, but up steps their buddy and he is wrapped in cotton wool. I bet they will still back King Penny even if LFC were facing relegation, pathetic. Well, i got news for you BBC pundits, you can take your Dogleash with you and play golf with him all year, he currently holds one of the the worst record ever at Anfiled if not the worst!

i think we learn and improve all the time including footballers and managers. Innovate well thats a bit different. I suppose Clark and Keen where appointed for that bit. AVB could be called an innovative coach. Innovation doesnt always work. For all the bluster on this site i am saddened that it hasnt worked out for Dalglish. He was definately the right temporary appointment after Hodgson but maybe (and this really hurts me to say) we should have appointed someone else as the permanent manager. Kenny could have gone with head held high status intact having done a good job. Reuniting everyone etc. i am still unsure about who if anyone should replace him

That's really unfair and silly, he's only saying what we're all thinking. No other Liverpool manager would get away with 8 points from a possible 36 so why should Kenny not have to answer for it? Liverpool gave him a well deserved chance and he blew it.

I doubt it will be possible for Dalglish to leave in a fanfare of positivity if the likes of you and the rest of the alleged supporters keep spouting negativity. It's bad enough having the London media joining the LFC witch hunt without our own websites and blogs adding fuel to the fire. Our league form is awful, we all know that but the constant battering of the manager and the players is not helping anyone but our rivals.

The recent development from John W. Henry and Thomas Werner to require a written report by Damien Comolli, Kenny Dalglish, and Steve Clarke is a very encouraging/promising movement by JohnW. Henry and Thomas Werner that simply signalize their intention not tocompromise with mediocrities and their determination to not tolerate fromanyone, even if his name is Damien Comolli or Kenny Dalglish, with hisdecisions to put the overall success of turning the fortunes of this historicclub around and guide/lead it to a new golden era in jeopardy. Every cent/penny that will be provided bythem as a transfer budget should be spent wisely not on ambiguous valuefootball players, but on players that have a proved record that can make thedifference. On this specific aspect bothDamien Comolli and Kenny Dalglish have failed and they are held responsible forthat. Damien Comolli has succumbed toKenny Dalglish’s limited knowledge of modernized football and tactics bybringing in players that are not made up for a club as LFC. This proves that they both (Damien Comolliand Kenny Dalglish) do not have the knowhow of how to build a title contenderteam in today’s modernized football. Myassessment on Damien Comolli is based on the fact that by holding the positionof football director should apply veto when he feels/believes that the playersthe manager/coach is asking for cannot stand up to the standards of a club likeLiverpool. My assessment on KennyDalglish is based on the fact that he was out of the game for a decade and hecannot understand the changes that applied in this field.

What is the reality? We are club with new owners, new manager, new coaching team and lots of new players. That is the only reality I see. Blind faith it ain't, it is called patience and understanding that all good things take time to come to fruition. For all the excellent articles you write Jaimie, it does come across so often that your allegiance to Liverpool Football Club is as credible as Gary Neville's.

John, if we had been playing the kind of football under Kenny that Roy was playing I could see your point. But despite the lack of points on the board we have played some great football this season. I don't think it achieves anything when a club sacks a manager after such a short spell in charge. Continuity and solid foundations build success not chopping and changing every season.As for the Anfield fear factor, I don't think any team goes to any ground with the fear factor anymore, even at OT the likes of Blackburn have gone there this season and had a go and won.

22 Years ago to the day, Manchester United were 2 places & five points above the relagation zone. The prevous summer they'd spent £7 million net, at the time that was a huge amount of money (to put it in context, they broke the record transfer fee pad by an English club that summer by paying £2.8 million for Gary Pallister, the world record transfer fee at the time was £5.5 million(Gullit to Milan)). Unfortunately for us, the Utd board at the time had the foresight to stick with their manager.

Why is that? Don't you think that there are really good managers out there that would relish to come to Liverpool. A slumbering giant and an excellent challenge for any top class manager. On the other hand it may be as you say that all top class managers has followed today's footballers and only want instant success and a shitload of money to buy whatever they set their eyes on. I'm hoping for the first which means that there is a slim chance, albeit very slim, that Pep Guardiola would take a manager job at Anfield.

Excuse me? I despise LFC - how do you work that out mate? Did I say I had blind faith? It seems fairly obvious to me from the bile you constantly post on here that you've got some sort of agenda. None of us are happy with the way things are going at Anfield at the moment but you genuinely don't sound like an LFC fan Jamie and you really are so over the top with your articles that you must have some kind of issues with that are way beyond football.

Not sure if this is an appropriate story to draw parallels from, but Alex Ferguson had a torrid first 3 years in charge at Manchester before he found his stride. Knee-jerk "fans" called for his resignation (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/nov/05/sir-alex-ferguson-banner) - is no different to the chorus of critics we find today facing Dalglish.

Patience is a virtue and new managers need time to change an old regime into an established side. Just looking at Shankley's record (http://www.lfconline.com/league_history/liverpool/index.shtml):

Modern day fans, former LFC stars (now pundits), twitters, and ebloggers - who demand instant results - would have probably looked at Shankley's "catastrophic" record after 1967-1972 and demanded his resignation because of his "shambolic" record, and "decline" as a manager. Hindsight allows us to conclude that Shankley built and rebuilt established sides. Dalgish has only been back for a little over a year, and is part of a long term project - no different from Shankley - to build a competitive squad.

The lack of patience, vitriolic calls for sacking of managers, and high expectations for instant results are plights of a social-media driven, 24 hour news-cycle, Sky Sports broadcasting money footballing era.

Im not convinced Kenny is hanging on because of his reputation. The main problem is the finishing. Liverpool would have a lot more points if they could shoot. And he would be sitting pretty. I cant blame the boss unless you expect him to put his kit on and score goals himself. The aquisitions have been poor and He has to except responsibility but I suspect the owners had a big part in who they bought due to their love of statistics.

Agree with this. John W Henry stated in an interview on LFCTV back when Hodgson was still in charge that he had not been impressed with the previous manager's transfer dealings.I never expect Dalglish to criticise individual players in public, so it'll be more of an indication of his opinion by who get's shown the door in the summer.If KD gets the elbow, we're back to square one and another season finishing midtable whilst 'deadwood' is replaced (with more deadwood). NO manager with any amount of money is going to turn it around in one season.I'm for keeping him for at least another season. He warned against expecting miracles, Roy Evans said before a ball was kicked that realistically he thought top 6 and a trophy would be a reasonable season - don't forget, we were 12th when he took over and had we stuck with Mr Hodgson, we could well have been in the Championship now.Look at Chelsea. They have changed their manager every year since they got rid of Mourinho and are they progressing as a result? No, they are going backwards. Also, they will be looking for a manager in the summer, as are Spurs and who knows, Arsenal as well(?), so whatever names you pluck from the air, if they came to us we would be their fourth (or fifth if City axe Mancini) choice.

Strikers' job is to finish off chances. KK was partially responsible for the two strikers he has brought in, Carroll and Suarez. So no, KK doesn't need to put his kit on and score himself but he needs his signings to score, players he bought and is responsible for. He is partially responsible for our finishing problems, even if he isn't on the pitch himself.

We have had defensive problems without Agger in the side, he hasn't fixed that problem either.

Suarez and Carrol are going to have to be broken up, they arent going to improve as a partnership, not by enough anyway. But Suarez was a good buy. And I remember how good Carroll was at newcastle. He hasnt been the same player for Liverpool. But Kenny hasnt got a crystal ball.

So whats ur stance when we DON'T win the FA Cup which is more likely at current form? What will your view be after losing an undeclared initial objective now secondary objective to salvage any credibility?

KK is partially responsible for getting the 'best' out of Carroll. Don't need a crystal ball for that. Suarez-Carroll have hardly a proper long consecutive run as a duo in the side, as KK benches the latter a lot. There is virtually nothing to be broken up as KK hasn't really given the partnership a proper go.

Carroll was good for Newcastle in PL, for a mere half a season, as a first XI player. Hence, he was a massive risk, even without the benefit of hindsight. A risk that KK has played a part in and thus, he is partially responsible.

FYI francona never played for Boston red sox. Never won as much before as KK. Was never revered by the fans or idolized by an era of fan base. Nor did he win it all with Boston as a coach leave when on top and return the same as KK. Not the same. Nice try. Very provocative for Brits to read as they don't follow baseball. Jt from Trenton. Stick together guys!

No. not really. What I mean when I say the above is many fans are suffering from the football form Munchausen syndrome by proxy, i.e inadvertently hurting the club they love with their blind faith support.

" so many games this season we have destroyed teams and come away with a draw or a defeat" there is something wrong here. "We have played some of the best football we have for some time and have nothing to show for it" someting wrong here too. What kinda KOOL AID are you on?!, I'd like the same stuff, I'm tired of starting the week (almost every weeek lately) in a depressed mode after our team was destroyed by others and play like the SHITE we are to have (deservedly so) nothng to show for it.

SAF was/is a GOD. KD is just a king. No comparison. KK can't even work his way out of a wet paper bag at ANY stage of his coaching career. There is PLAYER and there is TEACHER. KK is just a PLAYER. As you will soon find outwhen we are relegated next season.

Granted it was a different era, but the fact remains that Utd stuck by a manager who had a good track record but was struggling &, over time, they reaped the rewards. I'm not sure the circumstances are that different; big club, hadn't won the league for a long time, heavy investetment in squad, big expectations from the supporters etc.

the problem is now that who ever takes over from daglish will have to ensure that next year they are in the top 4 and the year after that they must ensure they cement a title challenge and a good one. Who is going to come with that pressure on them, especially a manager that is from overseas, he may only last 6 months, hardly time to move into his house!!. Any person that comes here and is not in the top 4 from day one will have a massive amount of pressure coming from the fans. Dare they have a slow start and they will have no chance. I stuck by KD as long as possible and the newcastle game was the deciding factor that I dont think that he is right for the club but 96% of fans last year though he was the year before so how can all the fans now be wrong now?, did we all get it that wrong? and is history going to repeat itself next year? I fear a propaganda machine is building; where high expectation is rife around anfield. The propaganda machine will be at its height if KD gets sacked. I fear that if FSG go with a young manager e.g. AVB and he performs not to the propaganda machines expectations, he will be for the slag heap in 6 months.If liverpool do sach KD the first thing liverpool fans need to aknowledge is that we are a mid table team, it will be hard to take, but it will be the only way that a new manager gets time and the propaganda machine crumbles. I have said it before, the worst thing for KD was to come in at Jan, FSG should of let Hodgson come 15th then this season would have been a massive improvement on the league and the cup would have been a great bonus. Hodgson going in the first 6 months and KD doing so well has helped in his downfall, it was from this 6 month excellent bit of form that has created the propaganda machine of doom, and i fear it will be this that will be our downfall in securing a new manager and keeping him or giving anyone time.

you are an idiot for thicking that you're opinion counts for anything. there is nothing but blind faith in football as you have no control over what happens at the club. either get on board or get lost.

Its a gamble, do we stick or twist? Bringing in a new manager is not going to bring instant success with the players we have got. And I cant see FSG spending another £100mill or so at the end of the season. So the only option we will have next season is to start blooding the kids. Hopefully this will put more pressure on the established players to perform week in and week out. Where it has all gone wrong this season is though, KD has proclaimed he has a better squad, he has shown to much loyalty to under performing players. Carroll, Downing, Henderson and Adam have not performed to the required standard, yet kept there place. Players who performed well towards the end of last season, were dumped on the bench. Where is the competition for places? No competition leads to bad performances, which start to effect the players that where performing well.

its almost quite apparent that u didn't understand the reasoning behind rafa tactics, which is also indication u may not appreciate the technical aspects of soccer, the fact that u mentions pep only highlights that u may a very well have a surface understanding of the game (enjoy seeing goals being scored) and not the dynamics behind technical and tactical teams, if u did, u would appreciate what rafa did for this great club of ours

I don't see what difference those factors make. In my opinion, Dalglish is a very good manager who's been (back) here for a short time, the results since the turn of the year (cup competitions notwithstanding) haven't been great, but, I think that Dalglish has achieved enough in his managerial career to show that he can turn things round & that some of the players who aren't playing to their potential, can improve. That's the crux of the issue, do you think that Kenny is a good enough manager to improve results in the future, in my opinion the answer is yes, and that's exactly the same question which the Utd board had to answer back in 1990.

anyone that says 'soccer' shouldn't be lecturing (though not much of a lecture, takes more than the mention of the words 'tactics' and 'technical' to actually understand it well and to say other people don't) other people on tactics and technical aspects (take it in a light hearted way please, as its a joke ;) )

May have been the same question but the circumstances when asked were different. For e.g., KK has been out of the managerial game a long time and any managerial jobs he has done since Blackburn have been very forgettable.

What may have worked well in the 80s, may not work so well in the 2010s. Hear/read many a story how Ferguson has had to adapt/change himself as well as the club to combat changes brought about by time, and he has been at that bloody club all this time, whilst KK has been out of managerial action for ages.

I might be misrepresenting you, but what you're saying (re CL football) is that we should be more demanding of the manager (than Utd were at the time) because we were in the CL/enjoyed success fairly recently. Personally, I don't think that makes any odds. My view is that we have a better chance of getting back in to the CL (more quickly) with this manager and this (& I hate using this term) 'project' than with another manager.

I also think this thing of 'being out of touch with the game' is a bit of a red herring which doesn't really mean anything.

On the basis of the second half of last season's form, the standards were raised. We were bloody brilliant in that period. Sadly for KK, after all that money spent, he hasn't been able to keep it up, nowhere near it.

I agree, we were better off without that form in the second half of last season in the LONG RUN, as this club needs bringing right back down to Earth. But that form and the money spent since KK has come in, has meant we are in for more ache without realising (fans, media, etc) that we really are a mediocre side that needs to be left alone to rebuild without the fanfare/expectancy associated with a top team

I am not saying we should be demanding X, Y or Z from the manager, in relation to my view on the Ferguson example. I am saying that I simply do not agree with the use of Ferguson's progress at that club as some sort of conclusive justification, as there are different circumstances.

I don't see how it is viewed as a 'red herring', when football has clearly changed since the 80s/90s, e.g., tactics, players, need for rotation, etc.Rafa saw that the days of a Ince, Robson, Souness, etc, type box to box midfielders were over and went on to convert Gerrard into a attacking midfielder behind the front man or on the right, where he showed a consistency of performances that he never showed before. Not surprised at the lack of defensive midfield control shown by us, since Gerrard has gone back into a two-man central midfield.

The make up of the league makes all the difference. If you owned Celtic or Rangers would you give a manager time if he had the club in 6th place in the league? The way finances are now, it is failure for certain clubs, including Liverpool, to not be in top 5. There were more competitors in those days and it was a more level playing field. It was easier for Norwich to challenge then than it is now. So being just ahead of them now is not anything for Liverpool to be proud of. You were probably closer to challenging for the title if you were in 7th place in 1990 than you would be now.

Ferguson had recent league success when he was at Man Utd, Dalglish hasn't challenged for a league title since when? There are not many jobs where being out of the profession for 10 years would get you into a role like managing Liverpool. None of our competitors would take a manager with no recent track record. On that basis, and on the evidence of what we've seen so far, I'm not sure why people are so certain that he will turn this around. Achievements from 20 years ago don't look like being enough.

"... and rightly so..."? I disagree. That's to suggest that today's standards to assess managers are good measures, which I don't think they are.

Football teams and the opportunity for a manager to fully assert their style, regardless of era, needs time to establish themselves. "Fans", media, and pundits, no longer allow for that kind of time - thereby creating instability in perpetuity.

I remember seeing Kenny in a Suarez T shirt if my memory serves me well.... made all the more cringeworthy when AVB and Chelsea refused to do the same for Terry....NOT very well handled IMO......

Hard to believe that even the CHAVS had more class than us.......THAT was a new low if ever there was one......

I wasn't having a rant fella, i was pointing out why i think Kenny has intentionally or unintentionally heaped pressure on FSG, firstly with his handling of the Suarez Evra saga and then by his god awful league results this season.

Its just embarrasing tbh, this season has been the worst in my memory simply because of

A) the damage done to the Clubs profile....and

B) our form in the prem.....ESP after spending so much money last summer......

I don't think FSG have much choice but to sack Kenny come the summer, that is IF he doesn't step down....which tbh i don't think he will such is his defiance and stubborness to accept that he might have got a few things wrong?

May not be good measure but that is the way has been for a long time now and like most of us, KK knew this when he came back. So rightly so, KK should be judged by today's measures, not something that belongs in a history museum.

I didn't expect a title challenging side this season but after a half a season of terrific form in the league last season when he came in and at least £100m spent since beginning of Jan, to show some good meaningful progress in the league this season, i.e., a genuine fight for a CL place. That is what, I think, most fans were expecting but he hasn't delivered on that front and rightly so, he gets criticism for it. Only so much you can excuse with 'its a long term project' excuse.

the issue is that it hasnt been an ordinary or bad leaugue season.....its one of our worst ever and dalglish has to take responsibility for poor managing. He needs to go as much for keeping his reputation in tact as for allowing liverpool to move forward. imo dalglish should of only ever been given this season no matter what just to help stabilise the club......something he actually hasnt realy done when all ia said and done

Can you not see the hypocrisy of affording a manager more time who has been backed handsomely (Roy wasnt...) Had time to bed in (Roy didn't...) and had the support of the fans (that Roy certainly didn't get....) yet has still failed to deliver.....???

SO after happily desposing of Roy in 6 months we now want to give Kenny another season after he's had 1 and a half already and we have certainly not shown signs of progress.....

Even Roy managed a good Cup run in the Europa....which Kenny had the good fortune of taking over....

Its so easy to start labelling fans as Sky generation or quick fix merchants with too high expectations blah blah blah when it suits your agenda......... but its not the fans or pundits who can fix our woes....it is the manager......its his responsibility like it was Roys to take the Club forwards.....which he hasn't done and doesn't seem capable of doing judging by what we'ver seen so far.....and thats the reality of where we are at.

Amazing how the goalposts can be moved to accomodate the one's we like isn't it?

Chelsea may not be "progressing" as you say but how many titles did they win in the last few years? And they have one foot in the CL semi-final and still have a chance of claiming fourth. If they are going backwards now as you claim with di Matteo in charge, then what are LFC?

Yes I did read the whole post. Why would AVB be more of a gamble? He fits the profile perfectly for FSG: young, ambitious, innovative and progressive. Exactly what the former Red Sox manager Tony Francona was. Before Francona was appointed, Henry was after Billy Beane who also fits the profile.

Rumour last year was FSG was looking at AVB to take over from Hodgson or even for this season. The £13m release clause and competing against Chelsea for his signature probably deter them.

do you not know how avb works?? hes a joke of man management, look how he treated alex and fan favourite anelka. he was rude and had no respect from players, his own fault. clueless. id rather have stuart pearce or big sami

did kd's list purely contain british players? did commoli have much say? how does the buying structure work at lfc? if kd went in and said that we must go british and maintains that train of thought, then please remove yourself from office kk. this was fine 1986-91,when foreign players of any talent went to italy and english clubs were banned from europe. time and the footy world has moved on, leaps and bounds. if not,what does commoli contribute? suarez? fantastic! who else? charlie 'genius left foot,but i have yet to see it and is really only a 500k player' adam? if so,get your finger out and get back to the drawing board,damien.

Alex Ferguson was appointed manager of Manchester United in November 1986.

1986-87 United finished 11th in the league 1987-88 United finished 2nd in the league (9 points behind Liverpool) 1988-89 United finished 11th in the league 1989-90 United finished just outside the relegation zone 1990-91 United finished 6th in the league (their league form was good but inconsistent)

1991-92 United finished runners up to Leeds (A shortage of goals and being held to draws by teams they had been expected to beat in the second half of the campaign had proved to be the undoing of a United side who had performed so well in the first half of the season.) 1992-93 United win the title

Kenny Dalglish 15 months 1 Carling Cup and F.A. Cup semi Final to play. For the people saying sack him read the above!

United's patient approach has reaped dividends. Nobody is asking for 6 years but 15 month...come on???

It's not Dalglish! Its the poor return from the players he's bought this season! Downing, Adam, Henderson 3 goals between them. Downing no goals and no assists! He's not good enough and has let the manager down.With the emergence of Sterling and 2 or 3 quality buys which consist of another winger, at least 1 striker, a ball winning midfielder of quality (to replace the honest but ineffective Spearing). Couple that with the return of our player of last season Lucas and Liverpool will be in rude health and hopefilly no too far away.

when we lose to everton in the semi, then go on to probably lose a few more before the seasons out will you still be blowing smoke out his arse? kenny and his players have had plenty of time and chances. but not one bit of improvment or bounce back from one bad result to another, the writing is on the wall.things wont get better under kenny and his first team. i truelly wish they would

Been reading through everyones comments on here and Agree with what you said here. Especially in regards to the out of date box to box midfield that KK tries to employ. Fact is in the modern game, you should always play with three midfielders, and the ball should be doing most of the work. Depressing watching our expensive midfield this year running around mindless, with zero composure or tactical awareness. Its no wonder we havent been scoring goals as all our "chances" have been half chances at best. Not excusing our forwards as they have been poor also, but I think that the kind of service they are getting. These deep crosses from Charlie Adam and co, are the easiest thing in the world for most EPL teams to defend.

it is with regret,i think sterling will be plying his trade in the south of england next season, and that is not paper talk,i don't listen to idle tittle tattle,however, i do know mark bircham and matt connelly, both of qpr.

Yep, and when Fergie departs eventually United will be thrust back into the modern money driven world of football where owners set targets and minimum expectations.....just like at most other clubs.....

Can't see them allowing their next manager a 5 year bedding in period tbh, esp if they were not qualifying for CL let alone not winning the title and meanwhile losing a lot of their glory hunting fanbase to City.......

Sadly, the world has indeed changed....and we need to change with it, Houllier had 6 years (i think?) NO title...Rafa had 6 years still NO title....

Perhaps had we kept Houllier we might have won the title, perhaps not, same applies to Rafa.

Other Clubs meanwhile have been building their squads and becoming more competitive....we simply cannot afford to hang around hoping "things will get better" when their is very little evidence to suggest that they will..........

btw - out of interest, are you a Liverpool fan? If you are....did you want Roy out after 6 months???

Firstly, that was 2/3 decades ago. Secondly, different clubs, different managers, different circumstances and different bloody era, etc. Thirdly, 'not Dalglish'? He is the manager that was in charge when the likes of Carroll, Hendo, Downing, etc, were bought in, so it is partially his responsibility as to why they are performing poorly. I don't like Carroll and the horrific transfer fee but if your going to spend £35m on a player, at least give him a proper long run in the side alongside Suarez to at least him give a fighting chance to show he can play for the club (It takes the pee-pee out of the money he spent by not using him much. We can't afford to be spending £20-35m per player all the time. We aren't City). 'not Dalglish'? Its his tactics that has Downing playing on the right, where he has nothing going for him apart from coming inside to shoot (he isn't even that great at that either). 'not Dalglish'? Its his tactics that has Hendo, a young player who played a only few games on the right at Sunderland, playing regularly on the right wing and shows no sign of getting better in that position. Dalglish, along with Comolli, is responsible for the signings and partially responsible for their performances in a Liverpool shirt.

You want us to bring in another striker under KK, even though we have already bought in two strikers (£60m roughly for the pair) under KK who have both been a let down for various reasons as individuals as well as a partnership. That would be an illustrative admission by the club that they have wasted money.

May 25th 2011: “I am delighted with the way we have been playing, generally. It makes me feel very enthusiastic about next season. If we can maintain the form we’ve had recently, get our injured players back fit, bring a few top quality signings through the door, you never know what might happen. Kenny has given all the lads in the squad the freedom to go out on the pitch and express themselves, in both training and matches, and that’s important. With top quality signings, who knows what we can do.”June 18th 2011: “If we were to get back in the top-four next season I think it would be a fantastic achievement. But we will be setting out to win the league, because that’s what you do year in and year out at Liverpool.”STEVEN GERRARD

A question Jamie if you don't mind. You say that Liverpool have one of the highest wage bills in the league but I thought that it was supposed to have been reduced by about £30million at the start of the season, so is it still that massive?

I'm not arguing the numbers, I don't have any so I can't make an actual argument, just I thought it was supposed to have been seriously slashed (not to mention lots of people on forums now complain that Liverpool's wage bill is so low they can't expect to compete).

True. But who knows. Guardiola has praised Liverpool youth system. He says its second only to Barcelona FC. So maybe he sees potential in Liverpool. Maybe he is a person that likes a challange. Its not a challange to take over teams like united or City. But maybes and buts wont get us anywhere. The brutal truth is that a Liverpool is now a mid table team. We need plenty of cash to spend on players a new stadium and a hell of a good manager. I have to admit i am not very optimistic that it will happen in the near future.

They are challenges, just a different kind. Maybe more difficult for someone like Guardiola as he would have his work cut out trying to mould developed and mature players to play his philosophy, whilst at Barca he coached many of them at Barca B and the whole club's philosophy is similar to Guardiola's. Barca disciple Enrique has struggled to impose the Barca way at Roma, where they have some young players but a lot of developed and mature players who are less malleable than young players. His transfer spending isn't that great. Ibra did ok, in terms of goals but he didn't fit in. That Ukrainian defender was a flop, Chyngrisky or something like that. The likes of Cacares, Henrique, Hleb, Keirrison etc, were poor too.

So I disagree with the notion that either of the Manc sides wouldn't be a challenge for Guardiola. It would be a tough challenge as he would need to impose his philosophy, which isn't a easy one to impose. Good luck, Pep, trying to impose your philosophy on the likes of Hendo, Carroll and Downing!

* In the last published club accounts, LFC's wage bill was 121m. Spurs' wage bill was 88m, so even if the wage bill is slashed by 30m this season, it's still more than Spurs, who have outperformed Liverpool over the last two years.

* The idea that LFC's wage bill is so low that the complete cannot compete is complete fabrication. Between 2000 and 2010: LFC's total wage bill = 735m; United = 770m, and Arsenal = 762m. As you can see, a minimal difference overall, but how many league titles do Liverpool have compared to United and Arsenal?

* Between 2000 and 2010, United spent a mere 3.5m more a year on wages than LFC. For Arsenal it was an extra 2.7m a year. Hardly a major difference.

You can see the figures for yourself in the articles below (all figures taken directly from club accounts):

I wouldn't put too much stock what the club says about lowering the wage bill by 30m; the accounts to prove this will not be filed until mid-2013, so the club can basically say whatever they want to appease people because by the time the accounts go public, everyone will have forgotten what they said in the first place.

Kenny - blasts his players in public after every game (THE ONLY reason to do so in public would be to satisfy the fans urges)....what is achieved? A breaking down of trust, team work and togetherness. King kenny will achieve nothing by blasting his players publicly. I dont understand why people don't understand this?

The above has nothing to do with responsibility, it is all his responsibility. You cant as a manager though, make a public scene of your team.

People are so quick to judge, like children gangsters wanting a quick fix solution.

Has everyone forgotton how rubbish the team was before king kenny came in? What about the total lack of ambition that our previous manager showed?

Give him another year - it's the only responsible thing to do as fans/owners.

And for goodness sake, get behind your team instead of banging on about it online!

On current form,Everton defo favourites to beat us in FA Cup semi(regardless of Gerrard`s hatrick performance against Everton recently....must have gone to LFC players heads that win...done nothing since!!!).Owners(would`nt mind betting right now),the fans(those of us, that think a 21 year wait for a title is long overdue at least!!!),hell,even some of the players(aka player hissy fits in the Newcastle game),have had enough of this crap!!!!Gano1,you seem to be amongst a delussional MINORITY of LFC fans, who are hoping for a return to the top 4 EPL status and a return to the European e Championship League,what,within the next 22 years????!!!Because at this rate of decline,that`s what you`ll end up with...continuing mid table mediocrity.ps.I`ve supported LFC for 40 years,AND WILL continue to do so through thick and thin,does`nt mean I have to be happy at the shambolic mess that is LFC right now...if your`e happy with our little ups and downs,unlike me(guessing your younger),at this rate you WILL BE WAITING ANOTHER 21 YEARS TO SEE LFC RETURN TO #1 IN ENGLAND OR EUROPE FOR THAT MATTER,SO FENWAY SPORTS,AS OWNERS OF LFC,DO WHAT YOU MUST DO THIS SUMMER TO STOP THE ROT!!!!!

I'm just a broken record now. Really that's all I do is defend dalglish. Chap above. The age thing is crazy. All the top managers in the world winning things in their 70s. Ferguson, trapatoni etc. Look do you want fuss hiddink...he is as old as kenny.

Yourpoint is you think with spending a net spend of 35 million we should be in theTop 4. It's not going to happen that easily. Teams need to be developed. I don't see much improvement happening next year either. Liverpool dc are playing a creative passing type of football. I've not seen that since Roy Evans. If you want to build something special like arsenal, barca, it TAKEs time.

I would ask you to believe in the manager like a proper Liverpool supporter an let him an his excellent coaches do their job.

Football is a very simple game with one key objective - score goals (the end product of any tactics and technical aspects of the game) to win. The manager can have all his reasonings and tactics and if you don't score, you don't win. Which means ineffective tactics. I am not saying Rafa is bad. He did win us the Champ League and he bought some good players and bad ones too. But clearly, its time to move on to other managers with fresh ideas and dynamism.

If you appreciate the technical aspects of the game then you would know why Pep is such a good manager. Analyse how he sets up his team against various opponents and his substitutions and his man management and you will appreciate football at the highest level.

By the way, I have been involved in the game, even as a player, for a very very long time. So I know what I am talking about. And I have been a Kop fan for decades.

I second that Adam. I know Jamie doesn'ttake personal comments well so I will just say many teams have been where we were an won titles years later. Arsenal in 93' season were nothing but cup specialist with a low positionin the league. Once the manager gets rid of the silverware monkey of their back they go for the league. Arsenal champions two years later.

I think I only missed one game this season. In nearly all our games where we dropped points we have been very unlucky.

My only regret is the players lack of motivation since the possibility of gettinga champions league place. Players can't motivate themselves.

Think we will win the FA cup an then focus solely for next seasonon the league with the senior squad an give the youth squad the cups. Jamie, think you need a visit to the sacred gates of anfield!! LOL

Some of those young German coaches would be good options. dynamic, forward thinking and not afraid to throw youngsters into the mix. No use in amassing schools of youngsters and not giving them a fair shot.No point for signing Henderson when we had Shelvey. Downing was a waste of money since we had Maxi and Sterling to take over. Carroll ,as a buy ,i understood.Adam can't get used to playing for a big club. So yes, i agree, Dalglish needs to go. His 80's mentality and approach to modern day football is not working. He'll always be a legend at Anfield. He should leave now before it tarnishes his reputation.On a side note, if we are under budget constraints, Brendan Rodgers over at Swansea is doing a bang-up job...

usually I dont agree with your articles Jamie...but this article has lot of truth in it...stats also...I really think that kenny should be given another year to prove something...but which reallybothers me is that if KD wiil be able to buy great players!!! he wasted large amount of money unnecessarily...with the money used to bring in caroll, he could buy another great striker for that price...say aguero...who needed adam?? he bought adam just because rafa wanted to bring in Adam...could have gone for mata instead...

Kenny always said he would put the club first and do what is best for the club. He said LFC is the number one priority and of course he's right. It just begs the question: does he have the perspective to make the right call or is he too wrapped up in his own methods, convinced they will work if only he can have more time?

I really hope Kenny is able to be honest with himself and make a truly good call. Maybe he does have the answers, maybe behind the scenes he knows precisely where we are going wrong and he has the perfect plan to correct it. However he doesn't give that impression to the public. Very few struggling managers do. They tend to resort to cliches and over-simplified ideas because they don't want to really invite the press or the fans into the back-room to see exactly how things are working. In the end I actually feel comfortable with the whole thing because the club owners are clearly not idiots. They have the ability to make reasoned decisions and consider all factors. They are astute businessmen but also seem to have a good understanding of how successful sporting teams need to work. They'll want to have a manger who has a clear and good plan for the future to get Liverpool back into the top 4 and then challenging for the title. If Kenny doesn't have that or can't convince them then they'll find someone who does. It will be a proper process and the resulting manager will be hired on the basis of demonstrable ability, not reputation or merely a good attitude.

The one thing that no one has picked up on is the players.I honestly think he's 'lost the dressing room'.This translated means they don't respect his training methods or tactics.

Secondly, does any really think that KD will resign?He walked away before but this time I don't think emotionally he can do so.The record would state that Kenny Dalglish walked out TWICE !So he'll wait to be sacked and receive a LARGE PAYMENT.

When was the last time a Manager walked out of a Premier League Club ?

This is exactly what I'm saying! Were blameing Dalgish for the errors of the last 2 decades???

We have contuinually brought in new managers with the same results!

Souness 3 years, Evans 5 years, Houllier 6 years, Rafa 6 years, Woy 6 months and now Dalglish 15 months???

Roll up, roll up the next manager who will probably get 12-18 months before we start complaining were not winning the league. This all stems from frustration that Liverpool no longer holds the record of the most league titles. The remnents of this are SUPPORTERS!!! raised on the failings of the last 20 years. Men and women in their mid to late 20s who have never witnessed the sight of Liverpool Football Club raising the league trophy after a monumentous season. That's all Dalgish's fault you see!!!

Ask yourself a question what makes (or did make) Liverpool special?

Knowledeable fans, patience, humility, never sacking a manager. All encapsulated in the song that mantra 'You'll Never Walk Alone'! That's seems to have gone now! were like Chelski or Spurs!!!

It'll be very sad day when I listen to a SUPPORTER!!! that believes the way forward (or their suggestion for the way forward) is. "Bring in a new manger, bring in a few new players and we'll be competetive again". WHAT???

Arsenal fans were saying that in November but theyre not saying it now are they?

We have battered teams this season and are now in bad form. Form is temporary, so lets take the hit this season! Take our cup and maybe another and look to next season. IF by Christmas we're not challenging for at least top 4 then fair enough ask the question.

Remember, one of FSG's favorites for the Liverpool job in the summer was AVB!!! and we all know what happened to him when he went to Chelski!!!

Be very careful what you wish for! Dalglish knows this is not acceptable and he should be given the chance to rectify this season for me.

Like I said earlier Lucas, Agger and Johnson will make a massive difference to this team. Adam, Henderson, Coates, Enrique and Carroll will improve further next year (Downing is 28 and this is as good as it's going to get!). We have a couple of young kids coming through to boost the youth team. Sterling being one, Robinson, Cody, Wisdom and maybe Morgan. Add at least one forward, a winger and another holding midfielder and I honestly believe things will be looking up!

One last point. IF Dalglish wrongfully looses his job (I don't think he should but I'm a realist and I know it could happen) then we have to promote from within!

Rodolfo Borell would be my choice!

He knows our youth team and has them playing in a manner that pleases, He knows the world setup in terms of the best youths. He helped make the Barcelona side were looking at now.

I think that KK is doing what all managers do, or should do and that is, stand up for yor players in public, support your team/club in public, show unity etc. What good would it do to publically condem the likes of Carroll!! Adam et al..... I think it would make things worse. One thing is guranteed the most important part of any club are its supporters, and if you turn them against a player or manager its all down hill from there. Look at Manu, the belief that club has....

couldn't agree more, top notch articles this and the Shelvey one, I must admit I supported and still support KD but if I don't agree with your thoughts I would be just as stubborn KD. Off the record, I saw the line-up against Newcastle, then the subs bench, No Raheem Sterling, and I did not watch the match. I was hoping they could have won but then 2-0 and I thought I am glad I did not watch.

Cheers for some constructive argument.(1) The age topic: I didn't say age prevents manager from winning things, but to be doing so, you must either have the highest class of management in your talent at that age, or you must have age on your side to learn and improve. This is the problem I outlined with Dalglish;(2) Net spend and achievement: Firstly, besides net spend, you must also consider what kind of players that net spend was splashed on. Selling Meireles and bringing in Henderson (also paying 18(!) mil for him) is not what you call team-building. And I won't even start commenting on Carroll. Secondly, what 4th place? We're languishing down in 8th, and have been in relegation form since January. Is that what we should expect from 35 mil net spend?(3) Believing in manager: I believe in figures, tables and statistics, and will believe in manager able to show his class in those. Not the one who keeps finding some absolutely ridiculous excuses after every disastrous performance.

Kenny trusts his players too much. Our squad is indeed better than it's ever been, but they don't seem to be very guided at all. At times after the League Cup final, our attacks have been beautiful to watch, even in our Newcastle defeat, but the football just isn't smart enough. We need discipline and tactics. Woy at least had discipline and poor tactics, but we don't exactly have the early 80's Dutch squad.

It is evident that any goals our boys score have to be created out of intuition and superior ability, but we've got no David Silva or Juan Mata, so it isn't going to happen. We don't have a finisher of RvP's calibre either. The only way we are going to do anything in the league for future seasons is to take a page from manure and Swansea's books and set up the play to score.

I had always thought Rafa was the best manager we ever had since Paisley and always defended him from critics and perhaps I still do. I don't exactly want Kenny gone because he could be onto something, but it is clearly not working very well right now. We are equally unpredictable to ourselves as we are to our opponents. The 5-a-sides have to stop and some proper drills put in place. Steve Clarke was an excellent signing, but I would really love to see Rafa back at the club. With our current lot of players, his formulaic style may pay more dividends

No, Hodgson was an all time low. At least we're trying to win games with Kenny, unlike Hodgson who was pleased with a defeat against Everton and hoped 'we didn't get beaten 6-0' against Man City.

After what Kenny did the end part of last season i can see why he got a chance. The complete contrast to this season, from January 2011 to the end of the season we would have finished only a couple of point behind Man U. This season we're relegation material since January.

No note of how bad we've been defensively since Agger got injured and Carra has been back in?

The team wasn't great, but he has barely improved it with his signings. Only Enrique and Coates are long term improvements. Bellamy's old and the rest are duds.

"Give him another year - it's the only responsible thing to do as fans/owners" - No it's not. The responsible thing to do would be to look after our club not an individual. That means fixing the mistakes of this season in the Summer and that means getting red of Dalglish, Comolli, Carroll et al.

You can keep trying to convince yourself that Hodgson was an 'all time low' but it's just not true; Dalglish's results are far far worse, and that is an inescapable fact. Did Hodgson lose 8 league games out of 12? Did he lose 3 league games in a row twice in 6 weeks? Did he preside over the club's worst home form for 60 years? No. Just because Dalglish's team plays better football doesn't mean his reign is superior to Hodgson's; it isn't - it is much worse.

Totally agree. At the end of the season, Dalglish has to step down, and Comolli should be dumped along with Carroll, Downing and, perhaps, Adam (even though I'm a fan). Henderson can stay as a squad player until he grows some balls and starts taking responsibility on the pitch.

'May 25th 2011: “I am delighted with the way we have been playing, generally. It makes me feel very enthusiastic about next season. If we can maintain the form we’ve had recently, get our injured players back fit, bring a few top quality signings through the door, you never know what might happen. Kenny has given all the lads in the squad the freedom to go out on the pitch and express themselves, in both training and matches, and that’s important. With top quality signings, who knows what we can do.”June 18th 2011: “If we were to get back in the top-four next season I think it would be a fantastic achievement. But we will be setting out to win the league, because that’s what you do year in and year out at Liverpool.”'GerrardNot finishing in top 4: 'major disappointment'John HenryBlame the fans all you like but the likes of Gerrard, Henry as well as spending the amount of money we did, results were expected this season in the league not just by the fans.

Prize money for the Champions League group stages runs into the tens of millions of pounds, then add TV money on top of that. Not to mention each place in the league is worth £0.8 million.

Prize money for winning the Carling Cup is just £100,000. (That won't even pay Suarez's wages for a week). Prize money for the FA Cup is £1.8 million.

Like it or not, Liverpool FC is a business and they need to make money when they have hefty wage bills, especially if they want to attract quality players. Revenue has already taken a big hit in the last 2 years with no CL football, a third could push us out of the top 10 most profitable clubs if the Warrior Kit deal doesn't save us.

There's expectations and the old additch that "Liverpool exists to win trophies" and then there's just plain naivety and an apparent longing to never understand modern football.

I find the silence from FSG ominous & a bit annoying. It feels like everything is crumbling around us and they don't give a damn. I'm sure that's not the case but I think the time is past due when there should have been some word, plan or action from them. Their silence just fuels rumour, speculation and panic.

If Rafa had the current squad at his disposal, he would do so much better with it. Even if we don't have Fernando Torres, I am sure Carroll would be performing better than Peter Crouch did for us. I don't think the wide pairing of Henderson and Downing would fare any worse than Babel and Pennant either. Henderson is a smarter player than Babel, just as tricky, almost as fast and more of a grafter. Downing is a better winger than Pennant; if Rafa can get Pennant putting in a MOTM performance in a CL final, think about what he can do for Downing. Downing is potentially just as good if not better than Rieira.

We may no longer have Alonso and Masch, but in Lucas, we have a player closer to Hamann and Spearing is pretty close to Masch for his industry and tenacity. With Shelvey and Gerrard's range of passing, one of them could easily slot into the deep lying playmaker role. Shelvey is a smart player who can read the game. Coates is no worse than Kyrgiakos either, and under Rafa, we never had a leftback of Enrique's calibre.

I've not even gone into the other senior players Rafa included regularly in his starting eleven that Kenny warms the bench with, nor the superior academy kids Kenny has at his disposal. Neither have I mentioned Suarez yet.

We have a much deeper squad than Rafa ever had and our best eleven, whoever may make it up, would be either equivalent or better than our '06-'07 best eleven. Of course, our bench is now far superior with most of the worst players on it good enough to make our '06-'07 starting team. We finished 3rd that season with a better goal differential than Arsenal and made the CL final. The only player we've currently got who would not get into Rafa's starting eleven is Charlie Adam.

imo, players are bought wrt to the previous years sucess, downing/carrol/enrique had very successful stints the year prior being bought. how was KK suupose to know they would be so pathetic ( bar enrique). IMO we crated enuff chances, however there is only so much a manager can do. why dont the players stand up and take responsibility.Pepe, what has he done this year, not once has he pulled one out the bag for us, made that spectacular save etc,

Henderson hasn't shown anything even close to what Babel came out with. At least Babel would score the odd wonder goal against Lyon or Chelsea, or come on and have a decent game against Arsenal or West Ham. He was a one in three player for us, not good enough but better than Henderson's one in five performances. Pennant was another one in three player, but i remember him putting in that decent shift in the champions league final for us, not a carling cup tie vs cardiff. I think man management plays some part but bottle plays a part also. Not sure Henderson has any. Spearing isn't fit to lace Mascherano's boots.

Agree, however, a better manager would get a lot more out of these same players. But a better manager would not have bought half of them and Benitez had a better first 11 and our first 11 is still full of squad players.

No need to panic. We only have one important game, maybe two, left for the rest of the season. In fact, as far as the league's concerned, we can relax for a lot of our remaining games and hope the manager brings in youngsters. Because there is nothing else to play for, except to try to work on tactics and formations and lineups for next season.

Rafa would also need a lot of time, took him a good few seasons to get our league form to a very good level. Don't see FSG funding another £100m+ in the next summer/winter windows, regardless of who the manager is.

To be fair, I think KD isn't nearly as bad as everyone makes out. Crap results, sure. But some decent football at times. I think he just made the most monumentally poor transfers - some of the worst ever in the EPL - and he was too stubborn to admit it. Thus he played Adam, Downing and Henderson too much. Not helped by Stevie and Lucas being injured.