Virtual_ManPL wrote:So basically in simple, Mozilla want to kill the most powerful weapon Firefox has now - the configurability, customization and possibility to change anything to look how users and extensions developers want.It's very sad to hear this, especially when this change won't bring Firefox any more user base, it unfortunately probably be otherwise.

firefox has been losing its userbase for sometime so this isnt new, even more users are using Chrome in linux or a webkit/blink based browser anyway.

-Arch- wrote:firefox has been losing its userbase for sometime so this isnt new, even more users are using Chrome in linux or a webkit/blink based browser anyway.

The last four months or so Firefox has been making a steady comeback of sorts, going from its low of 7.69% in August to 12.22% currently. Most of that is at the expense of IE and not Chrome if the numbers are right. But it won't last since once XUL is gone so too will be the gains. Mozilla never learns.

-Arch- wrote:firefox has been losing its userbase for sometime so this isnt new, even more users are using Chrome in linux or a webkit/blink based browser anyway.

The last four months or so Firefox has been making a steady comeback of sorts, going from its low of 7.69% in August to 12.22% currently. Most of that is at the expense of IE and not Chrome if the numbers are right. But it won't last since once XUL is gone so too will be the gains. Mozilla never learns.

i tend to think a lot will still use firefox even once XUL rubbish an Gecko is gone. people love "New Toys "to play with. sure i'll miss Extensions as they are now but i wont miss anything else. i'll be interested to see if firefox remains default browser in linux soon. they ( Gnome ) are improving the browser Epiphany.

Virtual_ManPL [:Virtual] - (ni? me) 2017-01-04 02:19:44 PST wrote:So basically in simple, Mozilla want to kill the most powerful weapon Firefox has now - the configurability, customization and possibility to change anything to look how users and extensions developers want.It's very sad to hear this, especially when this change won't bring Firefox any more user base, it unfortunately probably be otherwise.

firefox has been losing its userbase for sometime so this isnt new, even more users are using Chrome in linux or a webkit/blink based browser anyway.

( sorry for using chrome as im in Sydney over holidays )

Yep, it isn't new, it's mostly due:- pushing hardware acceleration enabled by default in Firefox 4 (which was very buggy from start)- pushing Australis (without option to stay with old pre-Australis look)- "exhausting" release cycle- killing tabs on "bottom"- killing themes (as we just have "skins" now...)- killing addon bar- killing status bar- refusing to release stable 64bit build on Windows for very long time- slow async development- slow multithreading development- dropping e10s and wasting years to start working on it yet again- wasting manpower on mobile operating system (which was doomed from start, since it was incompatible with Android applications)- pushing Hello- pushing Pocket- donations "harassment"- and also "firing" Brendan Eich (yea, yea, he "left" by himself...)and probably many many others...

P.S. Please use quote code or at least quotation marks, if you want to quote

Virtual_ManPL [:Virtual] - (ni? me) 2017-01-04 02:19:44 PST wrote:So basically in simple, Mozilla want to kill the most powerful weapon Firefox has now - the configurability, customization and possibility to change anything to look how users and extensions developers want.It's very sad to hear this, especially when this change won't bring Firefox any more user base, it unfortunately probably be otherwise.

firefox has been losing its userbase for sometime so this isnt new, even more users are using Chrome in linux or a webkit/blink based browser anyway.

( sorry for using chrome as im in Sydney over holidays )

Yep, it isn't new, it's mostly due:- pushing hardware acceleration enabled by default in Firefox 4 (which was very buggy from start)- pushing Australis (without option to stay with old pre-Australis look)- "exhausting" release cycle- killing tabs on "bottom"- killing themes (as we just have "skins" now...)- killing addon bar- killing status bar- refusing to release stable 64bit build on Windows for very long time- slow async development- slow multithreading development- dropping e10s and wasting years to start working on it yet again- wasting manpower on mobile operating system (which was doomed from start, since it was incompatible with Android applications)- pushing Hello- pushing Pocket- donations "harassment"- and also "firing" Brendan Eich (yea, yea, he "left" by himself...)and probably many many others...

P.S. Please use quote code or at least quotation marks, if you want to quote

pushing pocket down peoples throats is/was a mistake . pushing hello was a mistakerelease cycle is a mistake - should of stuck to 2 to 3 releases a year,dropping e10s and wasting years to start working on it yet again - totally agreeslow multithreading developmentsync in Firefox has always been terrible IMO an prolly will never be any good.

Mozilla are also figuring out their fallback position, as they already know that this stuff is about as popular as a dose of the clap with Firefox extension authors. So, yes they know they all only change webpage content, yes they know that most are total crap, but this (to them) is nothing but numbers...*drumroll* ...by a Mozilla guy, I give you the new Firefox extensions -

By the way, something odd. In all the Mozilla discussions/blogs/more blogs/we're just like you blogs, etc. that have been droning about this post-XUL business, you see the expected perp extensions coming up. In other words, the expected Adblock/NoScript, various downloader extensions, etc. No surprise, as that is all content. But I keep seeing something else being mentioned - an extension that barely makes it into the Top 50 - Tree Style Tabs. That is a chrome (UI) extension, don't ask me what it means, but it keeps being mentioned. Whether that is to become the token UI extension to refute what we already know about their 'don't touch our UI' policy, is anyone's guess. Odd though.

-Arch- wrote:i tend to think a lot will still use firefox even once XUL rubbish an Gecko is gone. people love "New Toys "to play with. sure i'll miss Extensions as they are now but i wont miss anything else. i'll be interested to see if firefox remains default browser in linux soon. they ( Gnome ) are improving the browser Epiphany.

We'll just have to wait and see what the final version looks like, I've got too many must-have addons so my hope is that Mozilla moves in their typical molasses-like fashion and we get an extra ESR version that keeps XUL going for another year.

Frank Lion wrote:Well, that's good. Although 'being slightly less worse than some other browser' was not really the original idea in the early days of Mozilla.

Agree, it is good since I think most of us want Firefox to succeed. But I would imagine that Mozilla management is thrilled to death at these numbers since given how far they have fallen in the last few years even crumbs from Google's table is worth celebrating.

As a non-developer who has seen how all this works I'm guessing that even before an official non-XUL version is released some resourceful individuals will have already figured out a way to restore the old addons, or at the very least to hack into the UI so it's configurable again. It is open source. It may be Mozilla's policy to deny that ability but that doesn't mean much with those who are determined.

Frank Lion wrote: Tree Style Tabs. That is a chrome (UI) extension, don't ask me what it means, but it keeps being mentioned.

Possibly getting attention because all Piro tab stuff gets it. He's an xul master in his own specialty there.He authors because he wants it. As far as I know he is full-time employed coding for business users of Fx, so Moz would be right up themselves if they believe they can subvert his excellent skills in any kind of political shutup move.Or not. Nothing says Piro won't be included in some plan to fork Fx to accomodate corporate users. A few of our local Fx group use Fx for local file management with Piro's tab extensions. It's a really esoteric field, but the basis is emulating Win Registry hives. Who knew! They're medical office workers.

I've used his Text Link since he wrote it.

Nothing's going to get any clearer until/if Moz brings down the guillotine on xul. My reading of theground is that Moz have a limited time to turn AMO into the Mozilla Store (before "apps" isn't an attraction for the general dumb consumer) - which I'm betting they've put all their fundraising hopes on; whether they make that a totally closed shop (no pun intended) or whether they allow eventually different Firefoxes (brandless natch) within their stupid corporate approach nobody will know for a long lot of years. Right now, I'm sure they're cutting off Chrome oxygen to find out what's going to be floating around without it.I hang on to the small hope that there are enough remaining gifted xul hackers to re-form an open addonscommunity again. Meanwhile, I'm happy enough to browse with SM 2.40 - a superb bit of kit that accepts all the extensions I need.

Oh, by the way, I already did all that. It took me a year and a half of extensive rewritting to make my add-ons e10s/multiprocess compatible, something that is being rolled out only now, all with the prospect of a long-lasting life for them. And the WebExtensions announcement was made not two months after. "Demotivating" doesn't quite cover it...

I plan to keep using the pre-Webextensions version of Firefox ESR after the big changeover. Will my PC have a deep security hole if I do this, even though I have virus and malware protection installed?

Last edited by cyrix007 on February 20th, 2017, 1:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

cyrix007 wrote:I plan to keep using the pre-Webextensions version of Firefox ESR after the big changeover. Will my PC have a deep security hole if I do this, even though a have virus and malware protection installed?