The victory condition promotes fighting, so you have to battle to win, instead of sitting back and collecting VPs.

I don't need to bother looking this one up then. My gaming circle is extremely passive, our "fighting" games are Shogun and Small World, neither of which seem to be quite in teh same category as Runewars.

The victory condition promotes fighting, so you have to battle to win, instead of sitting back and collecting VPs.

That's good to hear. My biggest problem with TI3 was that it actively discouraged fighting (though I hear the expansion fixed that?). I'll put this on my "maybe, way down the line, if I ever get a regular gaming night together" list.

The victory condition promotes fighting, so you have to battle to win, instead of sitting back and collecting VPs.

That's good to hear. My biggest problem with TI3 was that it actively discouraged fighting (though I hear the expansion fixed that?). I'll put this on my "maybe, way down the line, if I ever get a regular gaming night together" list.

While I haven't played TI3, I have read online that the expansion for TI3 fixes a lot of problems of the original game. The expansion for TI3 was designed by Cory Konieczka, who also designed Runewars, Starcraft: The Board Game, Battlestar Galactica, and Middle-Earth Quest, among others.

We actually just played Starcraft today. One thing I like about that game is that it strongly encourages offense. The bonuses given to the attacker are huge. You can always outnumber the defender, get to set up which units are attacking which, and get a bunch of extra combat cards. Even without any kind of bonus VPs for winning battles like in Nexus Ops, it almost forces you to attack constantly because you're kind of screwed if they attack you first.

Of course, the order system in that game is also awesome. One turn I completely foiled an invasion attempt with one order placement. That was sweet.

There's a simple mod for Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition, which removes the victory conditions, and replaces it with a progress chart. The conditions on this chart are related to the amount of systems you have under your control, so it encourages fighting. Look on boardgamegeek.com for this variant.

Well, the other problem with TI3 is that fighting is, well, just so deadly. It's based on old A&A style based roll and hits. There's no interesting decision making, very little option for retreat, especially since if you're in a position to retreat.

Also the resource system meant putting money into fleets took away too much from development, once again it was because it was based on the old style money and purchase system.

Runewars a lot of those options by gutting the old systems and mixing American and Euro games together to get the resource dials. The dials determine what units and influence you get at a certain resource level. Choosing to build units just takes up one of your 4 orders that season, likewise building other things like fortifications can temporarily reduce your dials, forcing you to use up one of your orders for that season.

Also, all the VPs are out in the field, which means they're captureable by enemies.

Another big problem with TI3 was way too many options in one turn, especially so since you had to carefully choose what of those many options you did due to the activation system and such limited resources. This led to analysis paralysis, even in experienced players. With runewars, there's still a lot of options, and planning, but it's better broken down

on BGG, they're saying that the time actually averages out to 3 to 5 hours after the first game. one person reported a 7 1/2 hour game but admitted that a lot of time was spent going over rules. a lot of folks noted that was an extraordinarily long time.

I'm hoping this scratches my TI3 itch without the TI3 time commitment.

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on BGG, they're saying that the time actually averages out to 3 to 5 hours after the first game. one person reported a 7 1/2 hour game but admitted that a lot of time was spent going over rules. a lot of folks noted that was an extraordinarily long time.

Excellent! Nice to know this can be finished in under a weekend!

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Significantly lower play times, makes me kind of wish there was enough for a 6 player game in the box, but I'm sure FF will have an expansion out shortly that adds 2 new armies or something. I think the Orcs aren't covered yet, and they left plenty of room to expand on the current armies.

My local shop should finally get this in today, looking forward to trying it there.

My copy should be here on Friday (along with the much anticipated deluxe edition of Twilight Struggle). My only concern is that there seems to be a very vocal group that actively hates the new Fate Deck system. It seems to be creating a love it or hate it atmosphere. To me, it sounds neat. I guess I'll have to get some playtime in and make my own decision (although I'm notorious for being pretty lenient on games).

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The fate deck allows for the same amount of randomness as a die roll, but the added benefit of being able to handle all sorts of extra situations without the need for extra bookkeeping or time overhead that comes from chart look ups. With them, you get a combat system that isn't just a roll and hit model, but instead incorporates unit special abilities, routing, and more. It also helps combat be more interesting and tactical, yet still allowing for large battles that don't take an hour to resolve. Combined with how the resource dial mechanic works means that someone who loses the battle isn't completely out of the game. It also helps reduce the effects of bad rolls, since even if you don't get outright kills, you might get a lot of routes, enabling you to hold on to territory.

If they're going to badmouth a game for a mechanic that they haven't even tried, yet other games have used quite successfully, well let them stick to their stale old boardgames.

My only concern is that there seems to be a very vocal group that actively hates the new Fate Deck system. It seems to be creating a love it or hate it atmosphere. To me, it sounds neat. I guess I'll have to get some playtime in and make my own decision (although I'm notorious for being pretty lenient on games).

From what little I've read about the game, the fate card system sound similar to aspects of the event card system in FFG's Warrior Knights. Many folks in the gaming community bitched and complained about that too, but quite honestly I've played WK a number of times and I think it's works great - very good game BTW. As well it's quite easy to tweak and improve a card system through expansions, and in fact the expansion for WK vastly improved it's event system. Besides, IMO Hannibal - Rome vs. Carthage and Twilight Struggle prove just how great Card Drive Games/systems can be.

I wish I had the $ for Runewars as it sounds great, but I just bought Britannia today and I'm likely going to pick up Warrior Knights within a month. And wait....aren't there some damn good video games out this week and the next few.

my copy is sitting here next to my desk now, along with Twilight Struggle. this weekend will be a rules reading extravaganza.

Awesome...having played Twilight Struggle a number of times, I can say it's more than worth the effort to wade through the instructions. I've very curious to hear what your impression of Runewars are. I've read a number of reviews and posts on boardgamegeek and for the most part they're very positive. The game mechanics also sound very good and something my family and friends would certainly like. I was set on picking up Warrior Knights as my next game, but positive initial impressions on Runewars are pulling me towards it.

Okay, I read the rules for TS this weekend, but just started the Runewars rules. I'm planning on getting a game in this upcoming weekend, though. TS is the one I'm most excited to try. I like the way it looks on paper. Hopefully it will play out equally well.

I'm still a little surprised at the 100 dollar price tag for RW. I would recommend ordering it online for the average price of 68 bucks since I don't think it's worth quite that much (although I know Turtle really disagrees with me on this. )).

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Okay, I read the rules for TS this weekend, but just started the Runewars rules. I'm planning on getting a game in this upcoming weekend, though. TS is the one I'm most excited to try. I like the way it looks on paper. Hopefully it will play out equally well.

I'm still a little surprised at the 100 dollar price tag for RW. I would recommend ordering it online for the average price of 68 bucks since I don't think it's worth quite that much (although I know Turtle really disagrees with me on this. )).