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First and foremost, drop your ego if you feel embarrassed posting in here. We're here to help you and not to judge you. By sticking with us, hopefully you can find the success you've been hoping for. A lot of GAFfers in the old threads had great success because they stuck with it. I hope you'll do the same.

2. Be respectful of other posters. Don't be an asshole. This also includes respecting other's views for/against stuff like Pick-Up Artist (PUA) lingo, which has been known to be controversial.

3. Some of our female posters have been known to drop in here and drop some sage advice. Respect them because they're giving you a very valuable perspective. Make them feel welcome because we want them to feel like they can ask us questions too.

4. Continuing onward from the above, don't be a misogynist piece of shit in this thread. Using words like "bitch/cunt/etc." to describe someone who, say, flaked on you isn't a good look for you. She's not a bitch, but you are a sore loser when this happens.

5. As per NeoGAF's TOS, don't post graphic fanfic-esque retellings of your Dear Penthouse escapades. We're happy that you had sex. (We actually are, honest!) If you have to give tips because a Member has requested it, please keep it somewhat clean and concise. Use PMs if you want to go into further detail.

This OP won't include the fabulous lists that are in OT2, mostly because that's already been done, and also because I'd like to focus on 3 core concepts this time around.

POSITIVITY said:

This one can be tough at times, and even seem unrealistic at others. Life gets hard and there's no denying that. But unless you've got something to be really upset or sullen about, you're wasting time and energy. You have the power to control the way you perceive the world around you. Your attitude is very important.

Positivity can help you turn what you once saw as failures into learning experiences.

Without confidence, you're not going anywhere. You won't know how many women, in any given day, are thinking you look interesting/fun/handsome until you exercise some confidence and simply talk to them. It's stupidly easy and frustratingly hard at the same time, we know.

Confidence is something we in here can try to suggest that you learn, but no amount of reading about it will teach it to you. You're going to have to crash and burn horribly at first. But, if you're staying positive, you'll learn that things get way easier with practise. Rejection will sting less and less because you'll be getting more confident. Break-ups will hurt less and less because you'll be confident in your ability to find another woman, with time.

Another shape confidence takes is being comfortable alone, being a single man. You don't need a woman, you don't need to have sex, you don't need a companion. Realise that these are wants rather than needs or necessities. Learn to have fun with friends and by yourself when you're single. Remember that your life is your own to live and that comparing yourself to others with partners or having lots of success with women isn't going to help you if you're stressing over it. So, be confident and kick ass when you're single. This is a necessity.

I don't like to use the phrase "putting the pussy on a pedestal" anymore since telling someone to quit being a "nice" guy is much more helpful when it comes with an explanation.

What is a "nice" guy? He's the guy who befriends women not because he wants to be their friend, but because he wants something that he's either too afraid to ask for (lack of confidence in himself) or because he thinks that she's a super swell gal who deserves to be doted on and idealized. The former is kind of creepy, but the latter is what some of you will be having trouble with, without even knowing it. This is what we call the dreaded "Friend Zone."

No, we're not going to help you get out of the friend zone with that girl. You can get out, but it rarely happens. That's another rule we use around here, "the exception rather than the rule." What we're going to do is tell you to move on and try not to friend zone yourself with the next girl. By being confident in yourself and asking -- sooner rather than later -- a girl you're attracted to for her number or out on a date, you avoid dropping yourself square in the friend zone with this next girl.

You can still be a nice guy. You should be a gentleman. But a "nice" guy is the guy we're trying to stop you from being. This doesn't mean be more of a douchebag though, so if you're interpreting this section that way, please read through it again.

Doing some of these things serves a triple-purpose: you'll be broadening your horizons, becoming a more interesting person to talk to, and you'll be forced into a lot more social situations. More social situations means you'll meet new friends and be introduced to more women, either through these new friends or the situations themselves.

Lastly, remember that the journey that is learning about dating never really stops. No matter your age or experience level, there is always something to learn. Be sure to listen to those who know more than you and be prepared to continuously get your hands dirty so you can understand the lessons they're trying to help you learn.

Ladies and gentlemen, I wish you all the best and tonnes of success in your future. Let's get this thing started.

Member

Awww shitttt. Awesome OP. I've been lurking/posting on the OT2 for a minute and one important thing that I got is to just be happy about who you are and fuck anyone who doesn't like it. That thread gave me the push I needed to get out of the mourning period with my ex and now I got an awesome gf that likes me for me.

Banned

Member

Someone I really respect once told me that before you can find a woman, you have to find yourself first. Not so much about having a sense of identity, but having a secure, stable and interesting life as well. I'm still working on that part at the moment.

Banned

Someone I really respect once told me that before you can find a woman, you have to find yourself first. Not so much about having a sense of identity, but having a secure, stable and interesting life as well. I'm still working on that part at the moment.

True. I left my girlfriend of three years last summer because of many problems with ourselves and because I felt I hadn't grown as a person at all in that timeframe. Now I'm full-bore with school, working a full-time job, and now I'm going out, having fun with my friends, meeting new people and doing my best to live in the now rather than worry about having a girl on my arm.

Banned

Someone I really respect once told me that before you can find a woman, you have to find yourself first. Not so much about having a sense of identity, but having a secure, stable and interesting life as well. I'm still working on that part at the moment.

I'd say they're correct. Self-improvement is very important. You need to be doing these things for yourself. Women will naturally cross your path if you improve it. You'll be more inviting and attractive of a guy for a variety of reasons.

Would you want to invite a woman into a house that had no furniture, nothing to eat, and was a mess? Think of this house as your life. Get your life in order before you think of inviting a woman into it. You'll find they will stay longer. And even if they leave, it's still awesome even when they're not there.

Member

Best advice I can give is to just try and not worry about failing too much. I'm still having issues with that one myself, but all my failures over the past two years have given me a lot of valuable experience. It may hurt a bit at the time, but it's worth it. Bottom line is: if you don't try you won't get anywhere.

Also men. You'd be surprised to know how many women actually find you physically attractive.

Member

Also I want to add that actions really do speak louder than words. Don't just talk the talk but walk the walk. Part of being a better individual is to show not just tell girls that you are the shit and they would be lucky to be in your life

I find myself in a situation I've never been in before. A girl (Brenda) at my salsaclass really likes me, and I really like another girl (Sofia who seems to really like me as well). And I'm kinda clueless. I hope this won't come off as arrogant, but I need some advice. A little background information:

Four months ago I moved to a new city and took salsalessons on fridaynight with a good female friend of mine. Partly to meet new people and perhaps to find 'someone special'. I did meet some cool new people during the first ten lessons (introduction course) but no potential girlfriend. Still had a blast though.

Now I'm going kickboxing on friday, so i moved salsa to tuesday. The first lesson I get reacquainted with a girl I talked to on Halloween at the salsaclub (Brenda) and someone I immediately hit it off with (Sofia). Great chemistry, great dancing, great banter (to the annoyance of the instructor, made me feel like a schoolkid again). The first week she had to leave in a hurry, and I stuck around to talk to the new people in the class.

And ended up having a few beers with Brenda and another guy. The second lesson (last week) I was a bit early and Brenda was already there, so I sat next to her and we started talking. We do have some things in common and she's nice. But for me, nothing more then that (I'll get to this later...yes...there will be a later!). Sofia wasn't there that night, didn't know why). So after the lesson Brenda asks me if I'd like to get a beer. I like beer, I do enjoy her company, so I say yes. After a decent time and one beer I go home. Before asking her if she's coming to the salsaparty on fridaynight at the salsaclub. She said she'd come so I said, see you there.

I also texted some other guys and girls from the first ten lessons, and I went there with my good friend who introduced me to salsa. At the party Brenda was kind of demanding. I don't want to say clingy, that sounds kind of condescending. I danced with a lot of different women (cause that's what you do at a salsaparty) and she seemed upset and asked me to dance ALL the time. When I was talking to people I knew from previous classes, or my friend, she'd interrupt us a lot. Especially when I was talking to Sofia who (to my delight) was also there. Brenda seemed really really disappointed and upset. And I don't like making people feel that way.

So the problem is: I'd like to be able to talk to Sofia and perhaps go out for drinks after. Without getting interrupted by Brenda. On the other hand I don't want to disappoint or hurt Brenda. Perhaps I gave off wrong signals by having a few drinks with her and (sort of?) inviting her to the salsaparty.

I think the reason I don't really like Brenda is because I love the single freedom I have (don't mean sleeping or fucking around). I don't like feeling tied down and HAVING to give someone attention. I don't want to give up that freedom unless it's for someone who's worth it. And I really really really like Sofia. Perhaps she might be worth it.

Banned

First off, congrats Idde. You seem to have a busy life! Kickboxing and salsa -- good combo.

I'd suggest never inviting Brenda out to anything anymore unless you're actually interested in her, but it doesn't sound that way. She either has the wrong idea or is just lacking social grace. Also, ask Sofia out for drinks. She's clearly the woman you're interested in.

Banned

First off, congrats Idde. You seem to have a busy life! Kickboxing and salsa -- good combo.

I'd suggest never inviting Brenda out to anything anymore unless you're actually interested in her, but it doesn't sound that way. She either has the wrong idea or is just lacking social grace. Also, ask Sofia out for drinks. She's clearly the woman you're interested in.

Member

Been trying to convince a friend to stop searching for a girl and improve himself. He just won't comprehend he needs to stop searching for friends and a girlfriend by complaining. Not sure how to convince him that he needs to start improving himself. Gah, it's annoying having childhood friends at times.

Member

I don't know if this is the place for this as I'm not really looking for a lady (though I do have a little piece on that topic), but I do need some social-type help.

First, a little backstory. I've lurked the previous Dating-Age threads and the main piece of advice I took to heart was that it's all about improving you. So I got off my ass and did just that because I really wanted to get better social skills. At university, I joined a few clubs (currently the Event Coordinator for one, regular pleb in the other three), I got a work study job at my school's information desk (the pay is shit, but the job forces me to interact with pretty much the entire school on a regular basis). I started going to the gym on a regular basis. I picked up some hobbies and set goals for myself to meet. And it certainly worked. I'm at a much better place socially than I've ever been. Thanks Gaf!

The problem is that I still find that I don't have a very easy time meeting new people. I'm an introvert by nature, so socializing doesn't come very easily. I try to have conversations with people and it feels like I'm struggling the whole way through. I ask people questions and I have no idea what to say and receiving an answer and getting maybe one or two follow-up responses. And it's even worse when people are trying to talk to me. I tend to give very simple answers to questions, and from what I understand, this somehow makes me appear standoffish (I've come to hate this word. Everyone from my friends, to my sisters, to my own mother have used it lol) to others. Nothing could be further from truth as I do enjoy talking to people and I like when others try to talk to me.

To stay on the topic of dating, I feel completely hopeless there lol. I'm good at making female friends. I guess I'm a "nice" guy (my friends say I'm "too nice." I say I don't really understand that. Help?), but trust me. I'm not nice to people because I expect something in return. I know a good deed is usually its own reward. That said, when it comes to women, I feel as if simply being who I am normally at a disadvantage. I ask my friends for advice, but it never helps.

In summation here are my questions:

1. How do you maintain an interaction with a person after you've started it?

2. Conversely, how do you appear interested or open to others so that they know its okay to talk to you?

Thanks for your time. I wish everyone who comes in here for advice the best of luck.

Member

So things worked out with my GF but we're still having one big issue at the moment. Basically her parents hate me and are doing their best to try and split us up. I'm not sure if you guys want to hear the whole story as it is fucking long but yeah.

Has anyone else had any experience with this, i mean parents interfering? Maybe i should start a different thread for this.

It's difficult to address what you're doing however it is common. I used to struggle with it and am now a lot more comfortable after getting fit (very fit actually) and just relaxing in conversation a lot more. It isn't easy to change, but a few things I changed up was to be more confident in conversation, talk louder so you're heard/understood, don't stand like a statue, smile, be friendly, make jokes no matter how bad you think they are and don't over analyze what they're saying.

For 1. - pretty much what I've mentioned above, engage yourself, don't zone out, have some eye contact and mix up your conversation. You can be a robot and have a prefixed list of questions/statements about the weather, health and current topics, but try to phase them in a way that it's an open question. Also understand that silence isn't always bad, with my friends we understand each other well enough to not need to make constant jokes/conversation. If you think the conversation is heading south (they're losing interest/seem bored) you can save yourself and go get a drink/chat to others, don't even worry about it.

2. Make eye contact, introduce yourself with a handshake, smile, be genuinely friendly to others, have energy and be positive..

I'm sure others will respond with what works for them, but my tl;dr advice is be positive, have energy and don't worry/over analyze. Keep speaking to strangers and be comfortable with yourself.

This'll probably be the best option. But so far we had a lot of contact because I do enjoy talking to her. Cutting it off all of a sudden seems...unfair and blunt. And I'm too nice a guy to do that Crap...I'd feel guilty if I did that.

I don't know if this is the place for this as I'm not really looking for a lady (though I do have a little piece on that topic), but I do need some social-type help.

First, a little backstory. I've lurked the previous Dating-Age threads and the main piece of advice I took to heart was that it's all about improving you. So I got off my ass and did just that because I really wanted to get better social skills. At university, I joined a few clubs (currently the Event Coordinator for one, regular pleb in the other three), I got a work study job at my school's information desk (the pay is shit, but the job forces me to interact with pretty much the entire school on a regular basis). I started going to the gym on a regular basis. I picked up some hobbies and set goals for myself to meet. And it certainly worked. I'm at a much better place socially than I've ever been. Thanks Gaf!

The problem is that I still find that I don't have a very easy time meeting new people. I'm an introvert by nature, so socializing doesn't come very easily. I try to have conversations with people and it feels like I'm struggling the whole way through. I ask people questions and I have no idea what to say and receiving an answer and getting maybe one or two follow-up responses. And it's even worse when people are trying to talk to me. I tend to give very simple answers to questions, and from what I understand, this somehow makes me appear standoffish (I've come to hate this word. Everyone from my friends, to my sisters, to my own mother have used it lol) to others. Nothing could be further from truth as I do enjoy talking to people and I like when others try to talk to me.

To stay on the topic of dating, I feel completely hopeless there lol. I'm good at making female friends. I guess I'm a "nice" guy (my friends say I'm "too nice." I say I don't really understand that. Help?), but trust me. I'm not nice to people because I expect something in return. I know a good deed is usually its own reward. That said, when it comes to women, I feel as if simply being who I am normally at a disadvantage. I ask my friends for advice, but it never helps.

In summation here are my questions:

1. How do you maintain an interaction with a person after you've started it?

2. Conversely, how do you appear interested or open to others so that they know its okay to talk to you?

Thanks for your time. I wish everyone who comes in here for advice the best of luck.

Couple of things. Objectively take a look back at where you were six months ago, and compare to now. If you made progress...great. Let that be an ego boost. Don't expect any changes to happen overnight, but be proud of everything you DID accomplish.

Some questions: How long have you been at the place where you work/clubs? Do you usually find you become more relaxed/more open the longer you've been somewhere? Do you find you have an easier time talking to some people then to others?

BOSS

I'm not doing too bad on the dating front. Not seeing many girls but I haven't really been putting myself out there either. Still, I've had success and I've been currently seeing a girl this past month.

I think I'm finally ready for a relationship. I haven't had a long term girlfriend in about seven years. It's just been a month here or a week there. I'm not sure if this is the right girl though. I'll just have to see where things go. She's a great person, I just don't know how compatible we ultimately are.

Banned

The single most important thing you can do to increase your chances with the ladies is to improve yourself. Doing so will increase the confidence you have in yourself, which is the most attractive aspect to ladies. (Being a timid guy is a pussy-repellant)

For me, this meant going to the gym and building muscle. Now, I didn't get huge. I went from 140 lbs to 165 lbs, pretty much all muscle ( I'm 5'9" ), but it took years. Don't get me wrong here, a nice bod will only get you so far with the ladies. And it's much better to have a little/some flab on your body, than to be a 120 - 130 lb stick figure who barely outweighs them. Ladies want to know you could at least defend yourself, if need be.

The good news is that the person you are meant to be with, the conversation will flow naturally!! You won't have to worry about what to say next, as long as you show genuine interest for people. If you ask them about their college degree, follow it up with WHY did they chose it? is it what they wanted to do growing up? if they could pick something else, what would it be? If it wasn't for money, what would they be doing? Out of that one question, you can get a shit ton of information about that person. Women respond well to you asking about their dreams, aspirations, inner desires, etc. Find out EVERYTHING about them, they love talking.

It leads me to the next point of you being open with your feelings. State your opinions more often, if you feel frustrated at something, say it! Women like someone who can stand his ground.

Have you ever thought about writing poetry? You should pick a night, set the mood, and try to put your emotions on paper. I can be liberating and give you a new sense of who you are. Maturity means being able to recognize and express your emotions well. You should try it sometime.

Banned

Member

Okay fuck it. Going to spill shit that I alluded to yesterday, because after a good night sleep I'm really close to blowing this whole thing off altogether. Here goes:

So yesterday I met up with this girl, whom I'm sort of seeing at the moment, for the second time. We were supposed to have dinner together, but instead we ended up meeting earlier and just getting something to drink again. Fine. Halfway through the conversation she mentions the fact that due to circumstances she spent the night at a friend's place on Sunday. Those circumstances being that she took the bus to this "friend", went on to watch a movie/TV show and then expected her mom to pick her up on the way back from the movie theater. Except the movie her mom was at ran later than expected. Now with this out of the way she goes on to mention that this friend and her have a history together. They met roughly a year ago and have hooked up on and off ever since. You've got it, they're fuck buddies. Except, apparently she developed feelings for him (shock and awe) and she still has. Now according to her, the dude in this story is a giant player. After she suggested they'd try a real relationship he kindly passed (or whatever the fuck). That didn't stop them from still hooking up, but because he cared about her too and didn't want to hurt her feeling he is said to have only kissed two other girls in the last three months (yeah right). Either way she goes on to say that she realizes that he will never really change and that a relationship between the two of them isn't in the cards, but she still has feelings for him and also still wants to maintain that friendship. She also insists that nothing happened between the two of them when she spend the night there on Sunday, which she considers a huge step in the right direction.

So with that humongous pile of steaming shit on the table you imagine the sheer awkward silence that ensued. I really didn't know what to say and what to think. I still am not sure what the fuck to think, other then the fact that I know that further pursuing this girl will end probably end up with me getting hurt in some fashion or other. We somehow managed to change the subject and bring back a little bit of fun. We then left and got the train home. We were getting slightly physical as she decided to rest her legs on my lap. I shot into awkward mode and kind of didn't know what to do with my hands. As we neared our stop we kissed me. This also went less than smooth, but was still appreciated. Then we both went our separate ways.

When I got home we talked online about what was said, and I gave some bullshit answer about me probably being able to deal with it and wanting to go on dating her as long as she maintains 100% honesty. The fact is now... that I don't think I can.
The last girl I dated for more than 2-3 times more than likely also fucked me over with an ex/ex-hookup of hers and was also a giant drama queen. This girl also has another issue which is that she has been dealing with anorexia (she's pretty much healthy now, but still in treatment). This is the bombshell she dropped on me on the first date. Needless to say this is also a huge part of her life and I'm entirely understanding of everything it entails. However, because it is such a big part of her life it also seems to be a very frequent conversation point and at some point I really just tire of the drama. After the "relationship" with the girl who most likely cheated on me, I told myself I would never let myself deal with so much drama again, and here I am, almost exactly a year later with another girl in my life who also seems to have brought a giant bag of drama with her. The only relief is that this girl doesn't appear to be a compulsive liar and mentally unstable.

So what do I do GAF? Do I ride it out for a bit longer? I could probably have her spend the night if I'd invite her over this week. Or do I do the rational thing and cut it right here and now? The latter of course means not getting laid (and it's been a while...).

Now this will probably be controversial here, but stop making female friends. Just stop it. If you want to be with a girl, then let her know almost immediately. Be upfront about it. Don't let her confuse you with the other guys who (supposedly) just want to be "friends" with her. And besides, girls aren't stupid. They know what you want.

Also, rarely, if ever, take dating advice from females. Their advice is often the worst advice possible. They have this ideal guy in their heads, ya know, a nice guy who does stuff for them all the time, but that guy is typically friendzoned forever.

Hit it, then leave it. That's how you play the game with females like this.

She's playing the game here, too. She wants to be with Guy #1, but he doesn't want her. Guys #1 just wants to, AND DOES, fuck her pretty much whenever he wants to. She's wrapped around his finger. She knows it. Guy #1 knows it.

You're just Plan B to her; The guy to give her attention when Guy #1 is busy (busy fucking other girls :lol ). That's how the typical female plays the game in her situation. Make no mistake, she would drop you instantly if Guy #1 finally decided to commit to her.

Hit it, then leave it. That's how you play the game with females like this.

She's playing the game here, too. She wants to be with Guy #1, but he doesn't want her. Guys #1 just wants to, AND DOES, fuck her pretty much whenever he wants to. She's pretty much wrapped around his finger. She knows it. Guy #1 knows it.

You're just Plan B to her; The guy to give her attention when Guy #1 is busy (busy fucking other girls :lol ). That's how the typical female plays the game in her situation. Make no mistake, she would drop you instantly if Guy #1 finally decided to commit to her.

Pretty much exactly as I see it. I'm just a tool she intends to use to get to guy #1. I guess the only reason I put the question there is whether or not I should try to get laid, or just take my dignity 100% and break it off straight away. Thus far I've been the one who has suggested meeting up. I think that if she doesn't suggest a meet up on her own accord by the end of tomorrow I'll just break it off without the lay.

Member

Pretty much exactly as I see it. I'm just a tool she intends to use to get to guy #1. I guess the only reason I put the question there is whether or not I should try to get laid, or just take my dignity 100% and break it off straight away. Thus far I've been the one who has suggested meeting up. I think that if she doesn't suggest a meet up on her own accord by the end of tomorrow I'll just break it off without the lay.

Member

Now this will probably be controversial here, but stop making female friends. Just stop it. If you want to be with a girl, then let her know almost immediately. Be upfront about it. Don't let her confuse you with the other guys who (supposedly) just want to be "friends" with her. And besides, girls aren't stupid. They know what you want.

Also, rarely, if ever, take dating advice from females. Their advice is often the worst advice possible. They have this ideal guy in their heads, ya know, a nice guy who does stuff for them all the time, but that guy is typically friendzoned forever.