I do not understand why these threads go in this direction each and every time. Lost Marine if you got so much confidence in the JB3 tune why you holding back? Why are we not seeing any 500whp dynos? Its not so hard to set up it seems since you do not even find autotune which even the stock DME has necessary. Damn if I had those puppies on my car it would be sitting at 20.5psi from day one or have you got pics of melted pistons inpregnated in your mind?

better that he holds back ... wise decision from his side.... Map 7 runs fine on upped turbos eventhough quite slow but over that you need to be able to induce some timing offset to be on the safe side or run meth plus race gas constantly.

I do not understand why these threads go in this direction each and every time. Lost Marine if you got so much confidence in the JB3 tune why you holding back? Why are we not seeing any 500whp dynos? Its not so hard to set up it seems since you do not even find autotune which even the stock DME has necessary. Damn if I had those puppies on my car it would be sitting at 20.5psi from day one or have you got pics of melted pistons inpregnated in your mind?

I actually dont like derailing threads, and i didnt think my comments are directly related to derailing. My presence in v4 threads is irritating i see.

If you would like to ask about what is going on with my setup, ill be glad to answer as much as i can in a thread regarding my setup. but in short, I have no fear of melting a piston as i do what is required to run as aggressive as i have

better that he holds back ... wise decision from his side.... Map 7 runs fine on upped turbos eventhough quite slow but over that you need to be able to induce some timing offset to be on the safe side or run meth plus race gas constantly.

Let him rather crank it up so he can fly the flag he waves in every thread at half mast.

Actually your comments are starting to become less than civil in terms of them sounding like a advocate pointing out the most minor item in order to bash.

I do not understand why these threads go in this direction each and every time. Lost Marine if you got so much confidence in the JB3 tune why you holding back? Why are we not seeing any 500whp dynos? Its not so hard to set up it seems since you do not even find autotune which even the stock DME has necessary. Damn if I had those puppies on my car it would be sitting at 20.5psi from day one or have you got pics of melted pistons inpregnated in your mind?

I agree. Procede is quite nice product, it being 99% copy of Haltech. No need to put it down in any way. And this latest 3bar addition I like very much. It's based on Haltech, so I was waiting for this as I know the hardware is fully compatible with 3bar. Well done Vishnu. Nothing wrong in copying. It is just good business practice. Congrats!

I agree. Procede is quite nice product, it being 99% copy of Haltech. No need to put it down in any way. And this latest 3bar addition I like very much. It's based on Haltech, so I was waiting for this as I know the hardware is fully compatible with 3bar. Well done Vishnu. Nothing wrong in copying. It is just good business practice. Congrats!

autotuning isnt neccessary, i dont believe in it, i never have. its backwards tuning. will people throw it in there, sure why not, no reason not to offer it. Its a feature, some people might want it

so your saying CAN has never been accessed on any car before? WOW, the N54 is the ONLY platform to do this on? Because it sounds to me like it was just the first to offer it on this model. Wait a sec.. SB2 was the first to offer 3bar sensor on this model.. thats sounds like the same argument then now doesnt it?

So for those tune+bolton guys who experience great variations in pump gas quality can't find benefit from autotune? I started a whole thread on this on the other forum; 93 octane from Sunoco, was something like 14.1psi boost on 60% ignition correction, and 93 octane from Gulf was 15.6psi boost on 31% ignition correction.

Both times starting on the standard map 2 which is set at 14.5psi boost and 50% ignition correction, no meth. The funny thing is, that full tank of gas from Gulf was run in higher than average ambient temps than the Sunoco tank, so you can throw the weather argument out the window.

This is just one example of autotune keeping the car running well with variations in fuel, ambient temps, et al. I remember when I was running the JB3, the idea was if its too hot, run Map 5. if its colder out, you can go up a map. Autotune throws this idea out the window as it does it all for you. You can even set the autotune to target aggressively or conservatively as one pleases. Granted the JB4 now has a form of boost autotune that you, LostMarine, feel is backwards tuning. Tell that to the many MS3 owners, Hondas with blowers who have to tune their car weekly to compensate for weather changes and the such.

Procede Spark timing based Traction/Launch control Hi guys,
If you are anything like me, the first thing you do when you get into a performance car is completely disable traction control. With it ON, it's too intrusive and not transparent enough. Its like someone else is controlling your right foot and that is no fun.

So one things we've been developing behind the scenes is a more transparent, performance-oriented traction/launch control system. And with it raining in Bay Area for the last week, we've made a ton of progress

The idea behind the Procede's Traction/Launch control is not to interfere with throttle blade angle and boost level as this introduces lag (once throttle is flicked closed, boost is discharged and has to spool up again) and sighs of annoyance.

Instead, our idea is to do what real race cars do and retard spark timing to reduce engine torque instantly. Spark retard torque reduction can be done a lot quicker and far less intrusively than any other method (throttle closure or boost target reduction). And it can easily be programmed to be less or more sensitive based upon driver preference. But most importantly, once traction is regained and the Procede dials the timing back in, power is there in full force without any boost control or throttle aberrations/corrections!

So compared to normal traction control, think of the Procede's system to be more invisible, less obvious when triggered, and far more tolerant of wheelspin. In essence, it manages wheelspin instead of trying to eliminate it all together.

Below is a datalog showing the effect the Procede's Traction/Launch control has on traction. All runs were done in 2nd gear on our RWD 335i running street tires. It was raining. The traction/launch control intervention was controlled manually for demonstration purposes.

You can see that boost and throttle blade angle remain essentially unchanged during the run. Instead, traction is dependent upon the Procede's traction/launch control spark retard event. As soon as it is disabled, traction goes bye-bye. Until then, we are putting down 350+lbft of torque, in 2nd gear, onto a wet surface, on korean brand tires that would otherwise spin well into 3rd gear.

The applications for this system are promising. One is to use a thumb actuated button on the steering wheel to manually cut engine torque during 6AT brake torque (pre-launch). This would allow revs to rise to 3000rpm and boost to build to 7-9psi at a standstill without applying excessive torque to the transmission. Then launching. And once traction is achieved, lifting off the Launch control button and letting full power to the wheels.

Surprisingly, this also has an application for 6MT drag racers (like me!) who have to routinely balance bogging the engine and losing all boost or spinning wildly and cutting >2.0s 60' times!

As for the automated traction control system, we are currently testing algorithms to accurately detect wheelspeed. Once we have this, it's easy to time the spark retard event. And even make its aggression user adjustable to accommodate a variety of users/tires/surfaces/etc,.

laloosh is a huge proponent of CP-E stuff and doesn't run the Standback II, runs a PROcede. Why is that LM?

you could also ask him why he is faster with the SB non CAN, and 93 octane no meth as opposed to V4 w/meth?

for real though, i dont know, he didnt try the SB2, i think he only used the SB non CAN.

Originally Posted by themyst

So for those tune+bolton guys who experience great variations in pump gas quality can't find benefit from autotune? I started a whole thread on this on the other forum; 93 octane from Sunoco, was something like 14.1psi boost on 60% ignition correction, and 93 octane from Gulf was 15.6psi boost on 31% ignition correction.

Both times starting on the standard map 2 which is set at 14.5psi boost and 50% ignition correction, no meth. The funny thing is, that full tank of gas from Gulf was run in higher than average ambient temps than the Sunoco tank, so you can throw the weather argument out the window.

This is just one example of autotune keeping the car running well with variations in fuel, ambient temps, et al. I remember when I was running the JB3, the idea was if its too hot, run Map 5. if its colder out, you can go up a map. Autotune throws this idea out the window as it does it all for you. You can even set the autotune to target aggressively or conservatively as one pleases. Granted the JB4 now has a form of boost autotune that you, LostMarine, feel is backwards tuning. Tell that to the many MS3 owners, Hondas with blowers who have to tune their car weekly to compensate for weather changes and the such.

i think you answered your own question. your telling me it raised boost in warmer weather? sounds like what the DME does anway.

as for autotune. ive discussed thi extensivley before, its ok for consistant sub-max performance. maximum peformance needs to be precise. everr wonder why canned tunes are never more power than custom dyno tuned?

i think you answered your own question. your telling me it raised boost in warmer weather? sounds like what the DME does anway.

as for autotune. ive discussed thi extensivley before, its ok for consistant sub-max performance. maximum peformance needs to be precise. everr wonder why canned tunes are never more power than custom dyno tuned?

ok shiv, you can say what you want,as it will never be against your preachings, but uh, directly from top level AMA tuners, along with, well, every other platform, custom tuning is needed for MAXIMIZED performaance. autotune is a good way for consistant averrage power, not maximized.

BTW, So how are those "autotuned" upgraded turbo maps working for ya? not very Auto from what i been reading

But again, "I" would like to keep this thread about the 3bar map sensor integration. as long as there are no boost spikes, it should be rather for fun for those individuals

you could also ask him why he is faster with the SB non CAN, and 93 octane no meth as opposed to V4 w/meth?

for real though, i dont know, he didnt try the SB2, i think he only used the SB non CAN.

i think you answered your own question. your telling me it raised boost in warmer weather? sounds like what the DME does anway.

as for autotune. ive discussed thi extensivley before, its ok for consistant sub-max performance. maximum peformance needs to be precise. everr wonder why canned tunes are never more power than custom dyno tuned?

no it raised boost and lowered ignition correction due to a change in pump gas. the difference was 85 degrees on the "bad gas" and 95 degrees on the "good gas". You just make yourself look worse and worse with every bit of misinformation you state regarding the PROcede and it's features. The PROcede has direct boost targeting; it does not use a multiplier algorithm to target boost based on the DME target.

If you don't like Shiv, that's one thing. Bashing a legitimately useful feature because you don't have it is another.

i dont hate proceed, its a good tune, dont correlate that to my hatred of the marketer (note i said marketer, not designer )

I have been anti-autotuning before the N54 was even around, so thats not the root of this. will i use it? no, only to help with the testing of it.
1 parameter isnt bad at all, im glad the users are happy witht he outcome, I actually like all of the few locals that run the V4, just ask them. BUT auto- is not auto-if you have to manually change settings

for the boost change and ign correction, are you saying the car had to knock, or knock several times before it adapted and lowered itself?

Manually change what settings? you don't have to do a thing unless you want to. autotune is optional as well if for whatever reason you want to dial in your own settings. Out of the box, the car is ready to be driven, no map switching, no nothing. Put gas in and drive and let autotune do the rest. Sure beats the hundreds of "what map should I run?" e-mails or threads.

If the car's running happily as a clam, why would the tune dial down the parameters? It would increase them. Or shall we compare to your tune of choice, the car has KR events, and it doesn't do anything about it. What's better for the car?

The JB4 has boost autotune, but the idea came from the PROcede. No one can deny that.

Manually change what settings? you don't have to do a thing unless you want to. autotune is optional as well if for whatever reason you want to dial in your own settings. Out of the box, the car is ready to be driven, no map switching, no nothing. Put gas in and drive and let autotune do the rest. Sure beats the hundreds of "what map should I run?" e-mails or threads.

no its not, not for upgraded turbo guys. 2 out of the 4 (PUBLIC) upped turbo guys on v4 are having issues. Thats not auto anything. but again, this should be in the correct thread,

Originally Posted by themyst

If the car's running happily as a clam, why would the tune dial down the parameters? It would increase them. Or shall we compare to your tune of choice, the car has KR events, and it doesn't do anything about it. What's better for the car?

how about running the proper settings for the right octane and conditions? that would be better no? instead of either side having KR...im not saying its bad, just not needed. players on both sides ar continually trying to maximize performance w/o taking neccessary steps. trying to push the envelope on limited resources. why? i dont know. in that regard, then yes, autotuning is fine.

Originally Posted by themyst

The JB4 has boost autotune, but the idea came from the PROcede. No one can deny that.

correct, noone is saying it didnt, to be clear, autotune was not first discovered on the n54, it came from other places as well.
SO when you use that as an argument, much like what most of that camp does, and get in a fit (not you exactly) when JB copies proceed something, well, isnt it strange that noone waves the flag when proceed copies something from a different tune? Does that not meet the definition of hypocrisy?

no its not, not for upgraded turbo guys. 2 out of the 4 (PUBLIC) upped turbo guys on v4 are having issues. Thats not auto anything. but again, this should be in the correct thread,

I have not seen anything in the other forum about this. Please cite references.

how about running the proper settings for the right octane and conditions? that would be better no? instead of either side having KR...im not saying its bad, just not needed. players on both sides ar continually trying to maximize performance w/o taking neccessary steps. trying to push the envelope on limited resources. why? i dont know. in that regard, then yes, autotuning is fine.

How about not having to dial in anything? And as stated, you can have the autotune feature target as conservatively or as aggressively as needed. For 99% of N54 owners, this is not necessary. You and I may perhaps be in that 1%. How many JB3 owners are more than likely running on a map too hot for their mods or conditions? A LOT.

correct, noone is saying it didnt, to be clear, autotune was not first discovered on the n54, it came from other places as well.
SO when you use that as an argument, much like what most of that camp does, and get in a fit (not you exactly) when JB copies proceed something, well, isnt it strange that noone waves the flag when proceed copies something from a different tune? Does that not meet the definition of hypocrisy?

The point is no autotune for our platform would exist if Shiv did not implement it on the Procede first.