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There are going to be several built motor supercharged S65 V8 M3 V8 setups starting to roam the streets this year. ESS will have the VT2-725, Gintani will have their Stage III and Stage III+, and Active Autowerke will have their level 4. Each takes a different approach with ESS using the same Vortech V3Si blower their kits already employ, Gintani offering Vortech T-Trim, V3, and YSI options, and Active Autowerke employing a Rotrex C-38 but is able to accommodate other blowers as well.

Here is the different between a VT3-725 and a VT2-625 supercharger setup, both on DCT M3's with meth in SAE correction:

645 wheel for the built motor setup and 586 wheel for the stock internal setup. VT2-650 kits claim to be over 600 wheel on stock internals so one has to ask themselves if it is worth the cost to build a motor for only 50 wheel horsepower? $15,000+ on top of the supercharger kit for 50 wheel? Sure this power will likely be more reliable but one has to scratch their head at this price for performance ratio. It certainly makes sense to upgrade to a VT3 setup if one were to take the stock motor too far though.

The Vortech blower used here is approaching its limit. For a built motor application, it would seem to be a bit undersized as 12 psi is not providing all that much versus the 7.5 psi of the stock internal kit partially due to the lower compression. To really see solid gains a bigger blower is necessary. Gintani has shown up to 16.5 psi with a Vortech YSI thus far and higher dyno results on the lower reading Dyno Dynamics dyno.

Hopefully a comparison of the three major built motor setups will be able to be made soon.

No need to do a search, and yeah I guess they went cheap on the efficient S65 that is so highly praised by you.

The motor is an awesome motor that makes a ton of hp per liter and has won numerous awards. BMW felt they didn't have to dry sump it so costs won out. That doesn't change an 8400 rpm 4.0 liter V8 having amazing volumetric efficiency. If you can't separate these aspects and just want to use anything you can to talk down on it go ahead.

Last I checked though the M3 is holding up better with 6XX boost then those 350/370Z motors you and your friend were talking about. And also, all it takes is a dry sump to make it bulletproof.

The motor is an awesome motor that makes a ton of hp per liter and has won numerous awards. BMW felt they didn't have to dry sump it so costs won out. That doesn't change an 8400 rpm 4.0 liter V8 having amazing volumetric efficiency. If you can't separate these aspects and just want to use anything you can to talk down on it go ahead.

Last I checked though the M3 is holding up better with 6XX boost then those 350/370Z motors you and your friend were talking about. And also, all it takes is a dry sump to make it bulletproof.

Classic Sticky I expect nothing less from you.

lol I know your assuming the dry sump will cure the oil starvation problem. I can tell from your previous post your looking for a answer to the problem and your not sure it will fix it.

Ah numerous awards lol yippee hooray how many times are you going to beat that dead horse?

I wasnt talking about S65 vs 350z/370z.

But here we go again.

350z's cant hold $#@! as stock block with boost this has been known for years .Now a build one your S65 cant even come close to the fastest built 3.5 DE

3.7 VHR 500-550whp is as far as you want to push a stock block.One thing I can say in Nismo's defense at least he was out driving his TT 370z for a year and a half racing beating the crap out of it. What were you doing running your god dam mouth like you are now about what if's and maybe's.

Built 370z's I am one of the very few in the country I have just begun to scratch the surface. I can show you a dyno of one that I doubt your car will come clost to.

Now would you please address me Nismo 370z is done dead he doesnt even own a Z anymore . You keep trying to combine stuff that he said with me ,and everyone know's he said a lot of crazy things around here.

lol I know your assuming the dry sump will cure the oil starvation problem. I can tell from your previous post your looking for a answer to the problem and your not sure it will fix it.

Tell me why a dry sump won't solve oil starvation issues?

Originally Posted by Mr.Squeeze

Ah numerous awards lol yippee hooray how many times are you going to beat that dead horse?

It's a fact.

Originally Posted by Mr.Squeeze

I wasnt talking about S65 vs 350z/370z.

Learned your lesson last time.

Originally Posted by Mr.Squeeze

Now would you please address me Nismo 370z is done dead he doesnt even own a Z anymore . You keep trying to combine stuff that he said with me ,and everyone know's he said a lot of crazy things around here.

Ran his mouth about how strong the Z motor is, popped it shortly after. It is what it is.

i will glady give you that information if you give me the data....give and take

You can't make that comment and be like I'll show you mine if you show me yours. Look, I know my air/fuel and these motors pretty well. So it would be great to see who told you guys that are blown are running stoichiometric a/f...

You can't make that comment and be like I'll show you mine if you show me yours. Look, I know my air/fuel and these motors pretty well. So it would be great to see who told you guys that are blown are running stoichiometric a/f...

yup...i can....and this is me doing it....no lies here either...i decided to ask some people last night....i was just curious and they told me the whole story....i just want to see what ive been looking for before we got into this part of the conversation is all....after that ill be happy to divulge that info for you...

yup...i can....and this is me doing it....no lies here either...i decided to ask some people last night....i was just curious and they told me the whole story....i just want to see what ive been looking for before we got into this part of the conversation is all....after that ill be happy to divulge that info for you...

LOL well ok, I mean it doesn't really matter to me. I have a pretty good idea on the various tuners for this platform and what some do and what some don't. Anyone who wants more on this topic can just read this forum.

LOL well ok, I mean it doesn't really matter to me. I have a pretty good idea on the various tuners for this platform and what some do and what some don't. Anyone who wants more on this topic can just read this forum.

Oh, so Nismo learned the Nissan motor wasn't quite how he portrayed it? Feels like you may have learned something at his expense too.

No prob, we'll meet up and do runs. Sounds like fun and I'd be happy to.

I hurt mine before with the SC piston number two, I didn't get to learn the lesson he did.

I did warn him however because he drove his car hard doing 13000 miles 160-170 pulls on a normal normal basis even when he wasnt racing. I knew it was just a matter of time before he blew up just plain common sense.

You probably considered buying the PROcede for your M3 IF it can be avoided, retuning the OEM DME is not only the best way to get consistent power, but it's also the safest.

how is it the safest? a proper standalone totally controlling spark/air fuel/boost/timing would be much safer than hacking the dme up to see boost and such no?

Originally Posted by benzy89

Both major plug ins have come to terms with the fact that a Flash​ is necessary for higher HP applications (FBO & Upgraded Turbos). Vishnu has their own flash that requires you send in the DME while Terry/BMS has made some COBB base maps to stack a JB4 on top of.

are you saying a flash is needed for the N54? no it's not, at all... i have no idea where you're getting that from :/
Terry's recent dyno post showing 550+ on RB's was just a jb4, no flash.

Originally Posted by benzy89

Building a high HP M car (any generation M3, M5, M6) is never an inexpensive build. Performance wise, you standard X-Pipe for the E9x starts around $1.7k. Then add in the rear section and you've spent around $4 on just an exhaust. At this point, you could've bought all the performance parts to make an FBO N54.

which is RIDICULOUS, they're just charging more because they know the client base will go 'oh hurr durr this is obviously how much it's worth!/QUOTE]

a/n (cat-back?) exhaust for 1.7k? you could get a custom made one for $500! a custom muffler tuned to your liking for a tad less. not even double the price if you want titanium...

yeah, not only is that FBO n54 money, that's N54 FBO with top shelf parts ($1000 on a nice exhaust, $1000 downpipes, $1000 intercooler..) AND a good meth kit ($1000).. you could probably even jiggle the prices around to fit your tune in as well..

Originally Posted by benzy89

Most of the kits start ~$8k, but naturally you need things that they don't come with -- An intercooled manifold, the heat exchanger, necessary plumbing & pumps & appropriate fuel injectors. This essentially forces you to buy the max power stock compression kit ($16k for all, give or take) and then add on the low compression build cost (another $15k). Depending on who does it, you get new pistons, rods, sleeved block, an upgraded fuel system & a bigger blower. To go from low 500 WHP to mid/upper 600 WHP is a healthy jump & I think once low-compression builds become a little more "mainstream", the price will drop down & be a more common upgrade.

yeah that's... that's just wow, i don't know any other car besides exotics (ferrari/lambo) that you need to spend so much cash for so little (relatively) gain...so now we're looking at $35k odd for mid-upper 600whp... jesus, you could BUY and build any number of other albeit older) cars to 600whp for less money :|... for that money i'd want well over 700whp thanks...
.

how do you guys know if the blower is maxed without knowing the pulley sizes?

Originally Posted by Sticky

VE of the S65.

i'm pretty sure the only rating that determines the 'maximum output' of the blower is its rotational speed. i'm pretty sure you can only get that with the size of the supercharger pulley, crank pulley, and engine rpm.

i suppose you could know its max if there were compressor maps for the supercharger, but....

yeah that's... that's just wow, i don't know any other car besides exotics (ferrari/lambo) that you need to spend so much cash for so little (relatively) gain...so now we're looking at $35k odd for mid-upper 600whp... jesus, you could BUY and build any number of other albeit older) cars to 600whp for less money :|... for that money i'd want well over 700whp thanks...
.

I mean, it's all relative. You want max power out of the S65, you're spending ~$30k for the low compression engine in a $70k car that'll give you between 600 WHP-700 WHP depending on the blower. But think of it this way:

You buy an E9x M3 & spend another $35k in mods (Low compression engine, upgraded brakes & suspension). This will give you a top notch performing M3 that you can take on the track & enjoy.

With this setup, you're currently faster than a Lamborghini Gallardo ($250k+ brand new) & have gained ~200% gain in WHP (once again, depending on the blower).

To get a comparable build & gains (200% over stock) on a Gallardo, you're looking at the UR TT Upgrade. Stock WHP will put you around 410, so a 200% gain takes you over 800 WHP. That's a Stage 2 Underground Racing TT kit for ~$70k (without additional suspension, brake upgrades).

There are HUNDREDS of other cars that you could pick that you can make more powerful for less $$, look domestics or JDM imports (ex: look at the CTS-V build that @ultimateendz is doing). BUT if you want German refinement & a high HP setup, you gotta pay to play -- Regardless whether it's an Audi, BMW, Merc or Porsche, it's going to cost you a pretty penny to mod it to that level.