I propose a camp. It will actually be a loosely associated group of people who absolutely hate what cameras and the internet have done to Burning Man. As I see the mission so far our camp's theme will be as such:

1) Don't take pictures of people you don't know and never share them.2) Openly harass anyone who violates rule number one.3) Bring obnoxious camera/photography related art (and plan for ways to bring it home with you!)4) Shame, humiliate, and emotionally torture anyone who violates the Burning Man ethos regarding photography on the playa. (Which oddly enough encompasses rule number 1 and quite a few others.)

If you are interested then lets chat it up on this thread. In reality it doesn't need to be a theme camp at all but if we have art, activities, and some sort of structure to share our mission then suddenly it's a theme camp. And if suddenly we are a theme camp then we get all the early access your average theme camp gets and all we need to put in is blood, sweat, and tears. And money. And time. Well... It's a lot of work to be a theme camp and I should know. This will be my 5th year on the playa, 4th helping to coordinate a theme camp. I love my old camp mates and I'm happy to camp with them again but if we can make an anti-camera camp happen then I must try!

As a Birgin, I think this is a splendid Idea, but absolutely impossible to achieve unfortunately. On the topic of pics and "Desert Code" (If there even *is* such a Thing): Personally, for me, when I'm in Vegas, for example, photos are taken of Sights, but the photos taken of me and The Dude, aren't shared (I don't break 'Vegas Code': What's left/happens in Vegas "stays" in Vegas but comparitively, could there be the same "Code" for BM I wonder?).

I think that an unwelcome tagging in BM pics, however, (Say, on FB etc.) might bring someone in Defaultia unnecessary worry, so why be the object of Interest against your will?

But then again, the Media haunts the Event and I fully expect to have my pic taken, I work in an Industry *now* where I won't lose my Job, per se, from hanging out on the playa like I might've years before (F**k Corporate America!!) because I worked for, and with, some very conservative folks.

Everyone's mileage may vary...and I think you could pull that idea off splendidly, whilst in-Camp...but outside Camp?

Good luck.

'I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum'

I propose a camp. It will actually be a loosely associated group of people who absolutely hate what art and technology have done to Burning Man. As I see the mission so far our camp's theme will be as such:

1) Don't Make Art if it may hurt our sensibilities.2) Openly harass anyone who makes art that offends our sensibilities while offering nothing of value3) Bring art that makes us seem extremely foolish as it only exists to stifle creativity.4) Shun photography and the internet for stopping us from "being ourselves".4a) Shame, humiliate ourselves, publicly. 5) Emotionally torture anyone who values what Burning Man is about. 6) Make those who care and understand about how important photography has been in bringing this community together since day one sick with disgust.

that anyone would want to stifle photography out there is beyond me.

dont want people to see you doing stupid shit? dont do it!! dont want people to see your bare ass?? dont bare your ass in any place but a private place

if your big worry is about people seeing you at burning man, YO, your problem isnt people making photos of you... get real with yerself.

tl;dr:

DONT WORK TO STIFLE MY EXPERIENCE BECAUSE YOU CANT GET REAL AND TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOURSELF IN PUBLIC.

i would politely add that this type of thing is impossible to police..

do we get to a point where just HAVING a camera is means to harass people?

I am pretty sure we don't want that because we know how great images of and at burning man can be..

I dont want anyone to create an environment where people feel uncomfortable to do perfectly OK fine upstanding legal thing.

People have threatened, in the various dozens of times this discussion has happened, among other things, violence, against those with cameras at burning man.. (surely youve seen them!)

I know theres a big group of people out there who HATE the loud dance music that keeps us up all night, and the roving art cars blaring directional sound that is actually physically dangerous (as in hurt you for real) at various art pieces...But I dont ever recall people suggesting to publically humiliate, harrass and injure them.. onsight.. maybe i missed it!

if you want an idea?

take a tip from the B.E.D.,... the potty project might even be a good example

Educate people on what you feel is proper use of cameras and imagery of people, acts.. art.. camps, whatever.

stifling art and creating an uncomfortable environment for participants is NOT ok....

B.E.D. is a team of volunteers dedicated to raising awareness of sexual assault on the playa. We encourage communication, a clear understanding of boundaries and mutual respect in the arena of a playful and positive sexual environment

Given that the people doing photographic harm to the event are the 'art' photographers who have access to hot models if not entire entourages, the only way to succeed at this is to make the event as a whole a lot less photogenic.

What say you?

Last edited by Bob on Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Bob wrote:Given that the people doing photographic harm to the event are the 'art' photographers who have access to hot models if not entire entourages, the only way to succeed at this is to make the event as a whole a lot less photogenic.

What say you?

My fat hairy ass, manboobs, bald head and paunch all vote "yes". The wrinkles are still debating.

"I have gobs of mustard and ketchup on the front of my shirt, which does not make me a hot dog." Sam A. McKeen

lemur wrote:i would politely add that this type of thing is impossible to police..

do we get to a point where just HAVING a camera is means to harass people?

I am pretty sure we don't want that because we know how great images of and at burning man can be..

I dont want anyone to create an environment where people feel uncomfortable to do perfectly OK fine upstanding legal thing.

People have threatened, in the various dozens of times this discussion has happened, among other things, violence, against those with cameras at burning man.. (surely youve seen them!)

I know theres a big group of people out there who HATE the loud dance music that keeps us up all night, and the roving art cars blaring directional sound that is actually physically dangerous (as in hurt you for real) at various art pieces...But I dont ever recall people suggesting to publically humiliate, harrass and injure them.. onsight.. maybe i missed it!

if you want an idea?

take a tip from the B.E.D.,... the potty project might even be a good example

Educate people on what you feel is proper use of cameras and imagery of people, acts.. art.. camps, whatever.

stifling art and creating an uncomfortable environment for participants is NOT ok....

you can do a lot better than witch hunts.

For many years, while I was severely disabled, a burner freind would send me photos of burning man art via email to look at. There are disabled people who enjoy burningman art photography, they should never be cut off.

What do you mean when you say 'the roving art cars blaring directional sound that is actually physically dangerous (as in hurt you for real)' Are you referring to hearing damage only? or is there more to it than just the everyday hearing damage/loss?

I'm the MAN in a truck, burner who is stuck, you're in luck! I'll whip out my BIG tow chain and not charge you, not even one lousy buck!

i suffered a loud sound related ear injury in 2007 a few months before the burn and the resulting sensitivity really brought out how loud some of those systems are out there that rove around.. you can be standing in relative silence in your camp and be hit with very loud directional sound without really being prepared..

I guess Lemur has a good point that it's a valuable art form to take pictures of boobs and spread them all over the internet. We shouldn't stifle their creative expression after all.

Okay, a real reply to Lemur: Yes. Anything that anybody does to actively stifle expression is bad... which includes photography... Maybe we just need to remind everyone with a camera of the consequences of publishing pictures and what it does to the rest of the event. There are a lot of people who go out there wanting to get free of what they don't like about the rest of the year.

And to Moonrise I have a real response which is that distinguishes personal photography from professional photography. Sharing your pictures of Burning Man with friends is really just fine but I don't want to see a bunch of youtube video of critical tits every year. Share your photography with friends. That's fine.

A response to everyone.. I may have been a little overboard with my outright hatred of photography. That wasn't what I wanted. I was really more interested in reinforcing the Burning Man rules against "commercial" photography and I would include youtube in that category. Photography and video are only okay if they are for personal use or sharing with your friends. Not 2,000,000,000 of your closest friends on the internet.

Kontradiction wrote: (I don't break 'Vegas Code': What's left/happens in Vegas "stays" in Vegas but comparitively, could there be the same "Code" for BM I wonder?).

I'd venture to say the 10 principles are BM "code" and it's pretty obvious those aren't always followed and at 50k+, how does an organization reign all that in anyway?

What really gets to me are those folks mentioned that try to be really "stealthy." I caught one YouTube video where the dude filming just focused on dancing groups of women (constant zoom in, zoom out) just to see their tits. There was nothing otherwise "remarkable" about the video.

Sure, if someone doesn't want to be filmed naked, then perhaps they shouldn't get naked. But -- folks with cameras shouldn't be total nutfucks and go that far.

Photography of the art, consenting adults, friends and big scenes where people are unidentifiable are super fine! It's that creepy old dude shit that is totally unfuckin' tasteful.

This will probably rub some people the wrong way. Barbie Death Camp & Wine Bistro has always had a pro-photograhy pledge; we have even gone so far as to put that in our camp's description some years back. If you step into our camp you can take as many pictures as you'd like, no questions asked. The other side of the coin is that if you step into our camp you have given your consent to have your picture taken as well. End of story. This nonsense of asking if it's OK to take a picture is stupid and unenforceable. What with phones and iPads and dinky digital cameras damn near everywhere these days how do you stop it? You don't. It's retarded to even contimplate such a position. So my advice is if you can't beat them, join them. Take it away, Ansel Adams.

If your beef is with commercial photography, then perhaps instead of planning for the next ten months to spend a week harassing people who aren't commercial photographers, you could just spend the next ten months harassing the companies and organizations that are using Burning Man photography for commercial purposes.

trilobyte wrote:If your beef is with commercial photography, then perhaps instead of planning for the next ten months to spend a week harassing people who aren't commercial photographers, you could just spend the next ten months harassing the companies and organizations that are using Burning Man photography for commercial purposes.

As nonsense, stupid and impractical the sentiment for no "photography by strangers without permission" sounds to others, some of us have to worry about our "life" in the real world. Now before you ask me to get a life and be my own boss, let me say that even though I love burning man, I would go again, and I don't care/judge/preach how grown adults choose to live their lives... for the above mentioned practical reasons, I don't want to be associated with the stereotype burning man brings. I am not willing to fight that battle with people who don't understand that its just a "stereotype" and you will not often catch me brag that I am a burner.

I have opened all doors with this comment now. May the attack begin **bitting nails**

wh..sh wrote:As nonsense, stupid and impractical the sentiment for no "photography by strangers without permission" sounds to others, some of us have to worry about our "life" in the real world.

sorry you break it to you....but burning man IS the real world. being yourself at burning man is being yourself in the real world..

some stupid corporate slogan thought up by advertisers to get you to do stupid expensive shit in Las Vegas.. 'what happens here stays here' ...does not apply in reality

we still live in the USA, yo,. where people are free to do stuff whether it might get you in trouble with the PC police at work or not.

some people might find it disrespectful to be photographed without permission for ...__fillin the blank here___ reasons

i find it disrespectful that people would put the onus on someone else to moderate what the world at large see's them doing in public.. laying the guilt trip on thick to shame them in to making their lives easier.

sorry but!! no!

if you are in a situation in life where being seen in a photo at burning man, .. doing something or not.. might be a problem for you thats YOUR problem, not the perfectly law abiding kind caring individuals who may photograph you.

it is not up to the photographers and people with cameras at burning man to mend your personal problems.. or to ensure you avoid them.

if you cant be seen being yourself by your family, coworkers or churchgoing friends than the problems that ensue arent really related to someone having photographed you.

Since when photography not considered part of personal space and choice? So that news I watched on TV about some guy take pictures of women's body parts when the women weren't aware... that must be just people who can't deal art work...Silly me! Actually, I don't even feel that strongly against photography. But this whole argument that anyone who thinks otherwise is stupid and has deeper problems is just blahh.

Also, we are not one dimensional creatures. We have different shades and aspects to us and ALL of those aspects is the REAL you/me. We chose when one can take precedence over the other. Too bad my shrink wanted to check my sources on that theory.