A challenge to Dr. Steven Greer, Stan Romanek, and all the rest...

I've never been able to understand the reasons Greer forces CSETI members to sign non disclosures on his 'field trips'.

simple answer for that...---> information control

it's actually a brilliant plan but it has a deceitful purpose.

You're preaching to the choir here my man!

What annoys me is people judge him on his original disclosure efforts, which were great, but then turn a blind eye to all the crazy things he's said
and done since then. In fact many people have subsequently tried to distance themselves from the disclosure movement because of Greer.

Originally posted by zorgon
Well at this point I am more worried about the collection of witnesses... I already found Wolf's to be like Swiss cheese

I like the metaphor but there is no cheese with Michael Wolf. It's all hole! I kind of get frustrated at all these characters with fabricated
credentials and histories. These people infest UFOlogy ad nausea. It's a shame!

Why are you so defensive on their behalf? Do you have some sort of interest or do you tend to cling to public figures? I mean, these people are about
one thing: COMMERCE. I seriously question why they would sell such information when giving it away should be sufficient if all they wanted to do was
get their story out. I'm simply saying what more and more people are thinking. This applies more to Greer than most anyone else. Romanek seemed
sincere when I attended one of his public appearances but I wonder why he has to go deeper into book selling and DVD selling. It is like he is trying
to build a business.

Then there's Greer. He sells "Ambassador to the Universe & Consciousness Trainings/Expeditions" for $995. This supposedly trains you to contact ETs
through meditation and other means (lasers and electronics), etc. If all of this worked and he really wanted overt contact with ETs, why on earth
would he not make this special skill available to all? Why can't he make his money elsewhere and fund this astounding knowlege with the rest of us if
it were true?

I want the ET/UFO issue to be top of the news on every major network as well as the mainstream internets sites. It will not happen if crap like the
above continues to be a part of the game. He should have stuck with his initial efforts and kept his credibility. Right now, he has little in my
book.

Originally posted by Visiting ESB Do you have some sort of interest or do you tend to cling to public figures? I mean, these people are
about one thing: COMMERCE. I seriously question why they would sell such information when giving it away should be sufficient if all they wanted to do
was get their story out.

What have you got against COMMERCE

This is America a country where we embrace capitalism... We have fought wars to defend the rights to
publish what we want and make a dollar

No one is forcing you to buy. Its also been pointed out that ATS has far more insiders with far more info to share and you don't have to pay for it.
So far what I have seen from Greer I can find more on my own site alone.

But ATS is about COMMERCE as well... its a business just like any main stream Media is a business. The purpose of a business is to make money.. yet
you don't seem to have a problem with that.

So it seems your beef is selective and you somehow feel Greer and Co have something you need or have a right to know...

Well what if they have nothing more than they already told? What then?

This is America a country where we embrace capitalism... We have fought wars to defend the rights to
publish what we want and make a dollar

No one is forcing you to buy. Its also been pointed out that ATS has far more insiders with far more info to share and you don't have to pay for it.
So far what I have seen from Greer I can find more on my own site alone.

But ATS is about COMMERCE as well... its a business just like any main stream Media is a business. The purpose of a business is to make money.. yet
you don't seem to have a problem with that.

So it seems your beef is selective and you somehow feel Greer and Co have something you need or have a right to know...

Well what if they have nothing more than they already told? What then?

Oh, stop already with the corny defense of capitalism routine. It's embarassing. Fighting wars to make a dollar is hardly something to be proud of.
It's ignorant. Supposedly we fought for loftier ideals than that. The right to own a business is supposed to be a by-product of freedom, not the
definition of freedom. And how did ATS as a business come into this discussion? Do you equate charlatains like Greer with ATS? Sounds like you put
them both in the same camp. Not all businesses are legit but built on fraud and lies.

Can you even read? Read what I've said before in this thread instead of trying to shift its focus. Commerce, when it comes to this grand, special
knowlege these clowns are supposed to possess, has little if any place. The knowlege they claim to have should be FREE. Yes, free. Sorry to
upset your seeming worship of commerce-no-matter-what, but it gets sickening to witness people like yourself rush to the defense of moneymaking
enterprises such as Greer where there should be disclosure instead. There's no place for it where such an incredible impact on history is imminent.
It is ironic that the champion of the "disclosure" movement will only disclose certain information he claims to have only upon payment of a certain
price. That tells me he is in it for money and that he cares nothing about disclosing the truth of UFOs and aliens. THAT'S what I have a problem
with.

Greer and Co, as you put it, have little to offer in reality. That's what I suspect. If there were any substance to their claims, I doubt any
honorable person demanding disclosure by his government would withhold that information himself unless he gets paid.

"Aliens have been in contact with me and have given me special formulas, methods of contacting them, techniques of space travel, and have allowed me
to photograph them. They have surpassed the need of a physical body and are truly advanced spritually. They are no longer hiding but have shown me how
I can be in direct contact with them. I was special and they gave me this information. You, too, can learn everything they taught me for the low price
of $24.95."

No vendetta either, so again, stop trying to shift focus. It's embarassingly obvious and a technique that won't work. Just tired of frauds
destroying any liklihood of UFOlogy becoming anything but a joke.

You can't talk about Stan Romanek before watching the only, real, irrefutable video of the alien caught on camera in Denver, Colorado:

In Italy we say "you wanna shot the red cross": many people are concerned about people who want to make money from
UFOs: i am NOT, because they won't see even just a single cent from me. I can pay for some long travel (but i mean LONG) if i want to investigate
some REAL first hand case, but i will NEVER give a cent to those who just package informations that are available for free. It is a matter of
principle. Leave those CD to lazy people, and if you are lazy enough buy one and end of story.

I must agree with you, Dr. Greer does seem to like himself a lot, if you actually watch him, he does some strange things, he is like a little boy who
just discovered he has a pee pee, he tends to play with it almost as much as he flexes his muscles. I am not sure he is aware that he does it either,
maybe it is a nervous twitch or something.

I have read on the internet that he supposedly told Romanek that the ET's he has on film were not real ET's, but man made, clone type beings that
the Government created. I wonder if he realizes that the ET's do not procreate the way humans do, and use cloning to reproduce. So in short does he
feel that none of them are real??? So why does he spend so much time in fields, in the middle of nowhere looking for them? I don't think he gets it,
they are not interested in people who search the night sky constantly looking for a sign of a UFO. They seem to want to show them selves to people who
are curious, who have no agenda, who are not about greed, who are not about profit, and don't make junk up to impress a bunch of folks sitting in
lawn chairs in the middle of a field, who paid good money to see something ...I would be mad if nothing happened.

Anyone who say's they are experts in ufology are full of crap, and should not be trusted, nor taken seriouly. How can anyone be an expert on what no
one can explain completely?

Just a bit of info for you, the video of the alien in the window was actually captured in Kearney, Nebraska. I found on the internet where a guy found
the Romanek's house and was standing in the circle left in the yard. He said that someone high up in MUFON in Denver told him where the house was. He
also recomended that no one stand inside it, becasue it made him sick.

Why would standing in a circle left by a craft make you sick? Romanek has talked about this at his talks too, but he does not say that it made anyone
ill from being in it. He says that particles from our Ionosphere were found in the soil, but no major EMF issues. Any clues?

the final straw for me with Greer was when he turned down or backed out of.... a interview with ATS. i knew then, he would not be able to handle real
questions being asked and that alone should make people question his true intentions.

Originally posted by elisabeth
Anyone who say's they are experts in ufology are full of crap, and should not be trusted, nor taken seriously. How can anyone be an expert on what no
one can explain completely?

No truer words have been spoken elisabeth. Every one of us can only put forth our best guess.

Yes that annoyed me too. Fielding questions from ATS members would not have been as comfortable and contrived as an interview with George Noory,
master of the puff piece. Greer knew he'd be picked bare like a chicken bone and bailed.

Originally posted by elisabeth
Anyone who say's they are experts in ufology are full of crap, and should not be trusted, nor taken seriouly. How can anyone be an expert on what no
one can explain completely?

And yet, you apparently are an expert in ET reproduction...

I wonder if he realizes that the ET's do not procreate the way humans do, and use cloning to reproduce.

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