Looked at a supra SA 450 today and they are really nice boats. They are selling around $10-$12,000 more than similarly loaded malibu MXZ. When did Supra increase there prices. Don't get it. Too get a bigger share of sales you would think they would stay competitive with Malibu. They are Really nice but wow..just rambling now.

I've yet to find an answer to what the advantage of this Supra is over an MXZ that it is clearly a copy of. I think Supra makes a nice boat but I've yet to see a good reason to buy this over an MXZ. Being more expensive is not a good reason.

You would think they would want to mirror the price to take that out of the decision. From alot of what we here, I wonder if some of that is dealers. The next state over the Malibu might be more expensive. I am hearing people quoting 10-12K price differences on here for the exact same boat at different dealers.

Is the SA really a more expensive boat than the MXZ with the same motor and similar options? Is this just a particular dealer that is selling theirs for higher margins than most around the country. What I am starting to realize is that boats are priced all over the place depending on where the dealer is located. In some places Mastercraft is more expensive than anything. Some it is about the same as Malibu and Nautique. Generally in an expensive location all the boats are more expensive but sometimes it just doesn't hold true over all the different boat lines.

As for the SA I am not sure it is as much of a copy of the MXZ as a boat designed by the same people who designed the MXZ for Malibu. I think a fair amount of people from Malibu corporate ended up at Skier's Choice. Shane Stillman is one who seems to have his hand in a lot of the styling and designs. Not really sure I can tell you the advantage of one of the boats to the other though. The SA has a trim plate instead of a wedge. Either could be a positive depending on who you talk to.

The SA and the MXZ came out too close to each other time wise for anything to really be copied. The MXZ wasn't out long enough for the Supra to copy it, they had to have clearly already been working on the SA. Like the previous poster stated, probably has alot to do with people starting a project workin for Malibu and then switching companies and bringing those same ideas to SC.

In any case I like the SA better than the MXZ (only sat in them at dealers, never water tested either one). I do think the table in the cabin of the MXZ is cool tho

Anybody who says the SA is a copy of the MXZ is not looking closely. Just because they are both aprox. 22' and picklefork doesn't mean they are are the same. By that logic, the MXZ was a copy of the X25. Or was the X25 a copy of the XStar? Who did Tige copy with the RZ2...?

I've demo'd both the SA and the MXZ. The differences are there, if you look beneath the surface.

As for the price difference, I'm with Brett on this one. Every dealer has a different pricing strategy. Some are low volume, high margin dealers. Some are high volume, lower margin shops. Some have big payrolls and fancy buildings to pay for. Some run with little overhead.

Also, you really have to be sure you are comparing same for same. Engine upgrades really push the price up. On an SA450 you have to compare to a MXZ with LS3. I'm afraid we might have people comparing SA450 with MXZ Monsoon 350, or MXZ L96. Also, all the SA's I've seen have four tower speakers on them from the factory (those fancy swiveling Roswell units). However, MXZ's are often ordered w/out any factory tower speakers.

Last fall there was a guy here who ordered an SA550 World's Edition (with every option, covered entirely in metal flake, and riding on a blinged trailer). He paid less than $100K. He even posted a pic of his check to prove it. I believe it was for $92K. Not sure what his deposit was, or how much tax was included. But that's not bad for the top of the line SA with the top of the line 550hp motor.

Finally, I'll do what should have been done from the beginning. That is, post pictures!!

Trust me they were both with the bigger motors and same options. Quoted $102,000 compared the MXZ 22. About a $11,000 difference. Both same size dealership. Just had me scratching my head because 3% less is what supra's are compared to Malibu generally speaking.

Trust me they were both with the bigger motors and same options. Quoted $102,000 compared the MXZ 22. About a $11,000 difference. Both same size dealership. Just had me scratching my head because 3% less is what supra's are compared to Malibu generally speaking.

Actually, it would be even a bigger difference. I'm sure that MXZ was optioned with Surfgate, which adds about 3k to the price, which obviously there isn't a comparable option on the Supra. So you really have to make that adjustment as well.

I've never been in the Malibu but I've seen them and I own a sa550. The 550 was worth every penny. Only got 7 hours on it but it will b back on river soon. It was more than I thought and hoped for! Never will regret the extra $ for the 550 eather!! I no nothing bout the Malibu but props to the supra! Shop around for pricing also.

SA450 at our boat show was 109k. 24 MXZ with the 550hp engine and a triple axle trailer not to mention loaded to the gills with options was 115k. The 22MXZ was mid 90s but I didn't pay as much attention to the options. The SA450 was loaded up for sure but it was way over priced IMO. Not shockingly the 24MXZ has sold and the Supra is still for sale on the local dealer's website.

The boat show price for the 2013 SA450 was $97k. At the same boat show the MXZ with the LS3, surfgate, and a few additional options was $90k. So local to me the SA is also $10k more than a comparable MXZ (surfgate is a $3k option for example).

As for who copied whom. Skiers Choice hired Shane Stillman in 2011. Shane was a boat designer/engineer for Malibu. Skiers Choice then released the SA in late 2012, over a year after the MXZ came out. It’s pretty obvious what happened, especially when you see just how similar these two boats are. Much more so than any of the other pickle forks out there. Of course none of that really matters, just buy what you like.

I owned a Supra 21V. In my brief period of owning the Enzo, and plenty of riding time in my friend's Malibu, I would NOT consider Supra better build quality than a Malibu or of my new Enzo (I single out the Enzo, because Centurion does offer more value lines than any other manufacturer, and expect Supra to exceed the value lines). I was amazed to see a 21V at the Raleigh boat show in the 70s. I just had too many things that I would consider quality control issues to consider any Supra a boat worthy of spending upper 90s or low 100s on. Skiers Choice makes a good boat, and our 21V was well loved and enjoyed, but I had enough negative experiences with it that I will likely not buy another. I hope my Enzo proves to be better.

It wasn't just quality issues, but design issues, from poor quality swim platform mounts that allowed the platform to wobble (experienced by nearly every Supra owner), to the positioning of the entire ballast system in the rear compartment that gets easily swamped which requires constant replacement modules or servicing of pumps, to gel coat cracking issues, to tower mount gaskets that fail, to gaps in the upper hull and lower hull creating areas that allow water in (requiring sealing). It should have been better.

As for who copied whom. Skiers Choice hired Shane Stillman in 2011. Shane was a boat designer/engineer for Malibu. Skiers Choice then released the SA in late 2012, over a year after the MXZ came out. Itís pretty obvious what happened, especially when you see just how similar these two boats are. Much more so than any of the other pickle forks out there. Of course none of that really matters, just buy what you like.

You are implying that Shane was responsible for the hull design of both boats. Trust me when I tell you this... You have no idea what you are talking about. What you just posted is factually incorrect.

You are implying that Shane was responsible for the hull design of both boats. Trust me when I tell you this... You have no idea what you are talking about. What you just posted is factually incorrect.

What then, is factually correct?

I have no dog in this fight, but I do find it entertaining when "facts" get presented on Wakeworld...

(The SA I looked at the boat show felt very similar to the Malibus I looked at right after; it's not an exact copy by any means but they share a lot of design cues)

You are implying that Shane was responsible for the hull design of both boats. Trust me when I tell you this... You have no idea what you are talking about. What you just posted is factually incorrect.

I never said anything about the hull. Nowhere in my entire post did I even use the word hull. Last time I checked boat design and engineering encompasses much more than just the hull, and the similarities between the two extend far beyond the hull as well. It seems you are pretty invested in this since you are reading words that I didn't even type.

Nor did I post anything factually incorrect. Read his bio. I nearly lost count of the times that SC clearly states that his past and current responsibilities are boat design, engineering, and product development in addition to sales. But you are right I bet Shane had no influence what so ever on new boat design at either Malibu or SC, even though SC states that’s exactly what they hired him to do:

"His dedication to innovation and inspired product development is proved with his part in 8 consecutive Boat of the Year Awards and the market share increases his past employers have enjoyed."

SC sure wants us to think his work was responsible for Malibu's success and design innovations as well. And here you are telling us that they simply hired him to mop the floors, and that any similarities between the MXZ and SA are merely coincidence.

I don't have a dog in this fight either since I don't own one, but I will say I spent some time in the SA and thought it was a step above any other Supra I have had and would most likely own it over the MXZ if all things were equal in terms of price and options. I can't say that with 100% certainty cause I have not spent a ton of time in the MXZ, but in the time I have, it is hard not to like Supra's new direction. I have not experienced the issues that CarZin has and have been happy with previous Supra's, but this is just the next level in terms of performance and fit and finish. I know the SA has been in development for a number of years before it's release and yes they have a lot of the Malibu talent over there now. I am sure some ideas came with those engineers, but I really don't know that. I am just speculating. I feel very comfortable saying that it definitely is not a rip off. Spend time in both. They are different from the exterior all the way to the interior....

I don't have a dog in this fight either since I don't own one, but I will say I spent some time in the SA and thought it was a step above any other Supra I have had and would most likely own it over the MXZ if all things were equal in terms of price and options. I can't say that with 100% certainty cause I have not spent a ton of time in the MXZ, but in the time I have, it is hard not to like Supra's new direction. I have not experienced the issues that CarZin has and have been happy with previous Supra's, but this is just the next level in terms of performance and fit and finish. I know the SA has been in development for a number of years before it's release and yes they have a lot of the Malibu talent over there now. I am sure some ideas came with those engineers, but I really don't know that. I am just speculating. I feel very comfortable saying that it definitely is not a rip off. Spend time in both. They are different from the exterior all the way to the interior....

Finally another voice of reason. I don't have any hidden agendas here. Never owned a Supra. Never even ridden in one except for the SA450 demo I took last fall. Obviously as a Malibu owner I know their boats pretty well.

Personally, other than a passing exterior resemblance, I don't see what's so similar. Anybody who spends quality time in these boats will realize they are no more alike than any other 22' picklefork.

Therefore, I submit that the entire premise of a copy is flawed.

The pricing is an entirely different discussion. I have a perception of what the SA costs vs. the MXZ in my market. I can't speak for other markets.

As you said, personally you don't see the similarity. Others do. But to call out someone as being factually incorrect, and then not provide any facts stating a former Malibu employee had 0% hand in the SA design; is laughable.

I have been a Malibu guy for years. My last LSV was a gorgeous boat with a lot to offer. I recently was able to crawl all over an SA 450. That boat is gorgeous. I would say irregardless of which brand you like, the SA can hold its own. Like Diggs, I don't really have a dog in this fight. In this area, the SA and the MXZ seem to be pretty comparable price wise. Next time I am in the market I will definitely have to take a hard look at the SA because it has a lot to offer just like the MXZ. If I were to pick one right now with the small amount of time that I have had in each, I think I might have to give the nod to the SA. As far as carbon copies, not even close in my mind. They are similar yes, but what v-drive doesn't have some similarities to others in its class? These conversations crack me up.

Jeez, just from looking at pics they do both look similar but I'd like to see some picks of the rear hull. It is totally believable that this engineer took design ideas with him but did he take exact specs or blueprints? Dont think so.

Traditionally BU is a flat hull design and Supra slightly more V-hull. Anyone have any of those pics?

As you said, personally you don't see the similarity. Others do. But to call out someone as being factually incorrect, and then not provide any facts stating a former Malibu employee had 0% hand in the SA design; is laughable.

So I'll ask again, what do people think is so similar? Still waiting for specific answers.

And as for facts, I know the designer in question and I know exactly what he did and didn't do on each boat. For Brett to claim that he was involved in copying the MXZ is simply not correct. If you want to PM, I'll be glad to elaborate.

And besides, even if the SA was a copy of the MXZ, would it really require an ex-Malibu designer to pull it off? I mean, if Supra really wanted to copy the MXZ, their existing design team could buy one and reverse engineer the whole thing. Why would it require a guy from Malibu? This isn't rocket science guys.

Look, I have no biases here. I'm simply pointing out that your conspiracy theories are wrong, a fact you would know if you actually did more than look at internet pictures.

Not real sure why I am jumping in on this but, I just don't see how Shane had to much to do with the SA being a copy of the MXZ. Time does not line up or SC can build a boat from the ground up in a hurry. Shane moved to SC around a year before the release of the SAxxx. My understanding was the new boat has been under construction for multiple years before he was there. I am sure he had some input on it but I doubt there is any thing more to it.

I think that IXFE made a good point. Despite everything SC has posted on that bio, if SC’s goal was to make a MXZ knockoff they probably didn’t really need to hire anybody new to do it. So if he is saying SC hiring a new boat designer from Malibu had nothing to do with the similarities then I will take his word for it.

So to try and bring this back on topic, can anybody tell me why the SA is $10k more than a comparable MXZ? I’ve checked them both out extensively in person and I’m not sure where the $10k difference was.

I think that IXFE made a good point. Despite everything SC has posted on that bio, if SC’s goal was to make a MXZ knockoff they probably didn’t really need to hire anybody new to do it. So if he is saying SC hiring a new boat designer from Malibu had nothing to do with the similarities then I will take his word for it.

So to try and bring this back on topic, can anybody tell me why the SA is $10k more than a comparable MXZ? I’ve checked them both out extensively in person and I’m not sure where the $10k difference was.

I think that IXFE made a good point. Despite everything SC has posted on that bio, if SC’s goal was to make a MXZ knockoff they probably didn’t really need to hire anybody new to do it. So if he is saying SC hiring a new boat designer from Malibu had nothing to do with the similarities then I will take his word for it.

So to try and bring this back on topic, can anybody tell me why the SA is $10k more than a comparable MXZ? I’ve checked them both out extensively in person and I’m not sure where the $10k difference was.

Hey Brett... thanks for the peace offering. You are a class act. I always get nervous when tension rises here... never my intention, despite how I may come off. Tone is hard to hear online.

On pricing, I never got real serious with either boat, so I don't have quotes. I'll defer to those who have, with a reminder that pricing is very region specific. If the SA is in fact $10K more in all regions, that is indeed troubling. It certainly shouldn't be, imho.

The reason I started looking to supra was my dealer switched to them. I love there family ran business and they have been beyond great to me. Our Malibu dealer(that is an hour away)sucks and I would never buy anything from them. I'm not gana lie I really like the g23. But my dealer is supra and they gave me a smokin deal on the 550.

yup dealer is huge...
Its alot about what theyre willing to cut. but here at the show an SA 350 was 97k, malibu mxz with gate and 6.0l 410 was 95k and fully loaded(no nss) G was 111k with 450 out the door... i get it that theres 14k between them and the G but all three were on "show special" but in 100k department, i know where my bargaining would be headed.

Supra dealer also told me i wouldn't use all the 2200lbs of ballast at once....

what year did the first wakeboard boat (except maybe the x80) did the market start to toss out 100k boats. I remember buying an 05 vlx for under 55k. in 5 yrs from now, every boat will be 100k, its getting crazy

what year did the first wakeboard boat (except maybe the x80) did the market start to toss out 100k boats. I remember buying an 05 vlx for under 55k. in 5 yrs from now, every boat will be 100k, its getting crazy

boats can still be had for that price. just not the big boats.
Deals are there to be had, thats why we have an rzr, not an a20 or r20.

I would have to disagree with ur dealer saying u won't use the 2200lbs. I rode with mine last year with the 900 and 3 ppl in boat and was less than impressed with wake. Defiantly need more weight and we not very good at all.

Chris that was met with a big eyeroll, which was indicated int he meme i posted that is now down. We load our boat up now granted its a 20fter but still 2250 goes a long way in a 20ft, 94 inch boat, theres no way i would use less than 2200 when i rode...

Some dealers just have no clue what they're talking about.
Another dealer told me I should learn frontrolls first or ill never learn tantrums ROFL GTFO LAWLZ.

@DBC,. When you test drove the SA how did it drive? How did it handle and how was the wake? My BU is way behind schedule and I'm liking the SA. Trust you to give unbiased opinion before I drive 2 hours to look and drive one.

JR i never drove the bu but let me tell u the as is more than I expected. But I will let u no I had a 04 San 210. So it was a great upgrade. In my opinion u won't b disappointed. My buddy has a 2010 master craft x2 and he fell in love with the as the first time he drove it!

The reason these boats have gotten so expensive is a combination of factors. I think the chief issue is cheap financing. Cheap financing makes these boats more attainable. When the economy tanked, a lot of these manufactures contracted and made up for the loss of demand by pushing up prices. Put the cheap financing and lower volume together and you get an explosion of prices. The good news is that while you pay for it on the front end, your boat is maintaining value a lot higher and longer than it would have in the past.

Anybody know about how wake is for wakeboarding and how boat handles? Don't want to drive 2 hours to look at one if wake is crumbly or boat doesn't handle we'll. PM message me if you don't want to bash. The SA I'm looking at is gorgeous but need some subjective opinions on quality etc. thanks

I have heard second hand from a pro who does not have a boat sponsor that the wake is "really good, it has a nice shape" and that the new malibu had a "good wake as well" but tone made it sound like the supra was his preferred wake.

i have dug around the boat and was very impressed with the design and layout. but there were some goofy things i really hated for a 100k boat with the 350!!!! that pop up seat is flimsy as all get out and looked like it was held up with metal popsicle sticks vs the g23 for 10k more that had giant industrial hinges on the flip up seats etc. I sat in it impressed but wondering what they were thinking with the pricing. It should be a 75k boat (SA350) not a 100k boat...

yes it would be worth looking if you like the malibu and think you can get a good deal on the supra. I preferred the design of the supra though pricing aside

I've boarded behind the SA and heard from some of the riders that rode it at Worlds. From my experience, the wake is the best Supra has ever had by far. Super clean and not weight sensitive. The more weight we put in it, the bigger it got and it just wouldn't curl. The pros at Worlds were very impressed with it as well. Also from a handling point of view, it's one of the best driving boats I've ever driven. It's really a step-up from anything Supra has had before. Hope you decide to drive it and see for yourself!

JR, I really liked the SA when I demo'd it... but not better than the MXZ. I actually think they are very different, which is why I posted earlier.

On my demo we tested low speed wake and it was Malibu-like (clean down to 17). Then we loaded up ballast and PnP bags for surfing. I surfed it and while I could easily ride, I found the wave washy and smallish. I did not make an issue of it that day as it was the blue promo SA450 and I figured it was too soon for them to know the ideal surf recipe. With that said, I find it interesting that both parties on that demo ultimately purchased different boats (a VLX w/ Surf Gate for me and a Mojo for the other guy). For both of us the reasons were surf wave and price.

1) Similar transom seating, but slight edge to MXZ implementation
2) Ballast configuration has only 900lbs in hard tanks and no hard tank in bow. On the MXZ full hard tanks + wedge is all you will ever need for wakeboarding, but I get the impression from othe SA reviews that I've read that you will more often use all hard tanks + PnP for wakeboarding. Not sure if that's true but for me I like the idea of only using the bags for surfing.
3) No mounting spot on tower for extra racks
4) Only one cup holder for driver
5) Seat bottoms a little narrower than what I'm used to with Bu
6) No Surf Gate... in fact, inferior surf wave regardless, until I see otherwise.

I actually tried to negotiate on an SA350. So it's not like I didn't like it. But the idea of paying more and missing out on Surf Gate was tough to swallow. In your case, there is no way I'd pay $10k more for an SA just because you're getting a little impatient on your MXZ build.

Looked at a supra SA 450 today and they are really nice boats. They are selling around $10-$12,000 more than similarly loaded malibu MXZ. When did Supra increase there prices. Don't get it. Too get a bigger share of sales you would think they would stay competitive with Malibu. They are Really nice but wow..just rambling now.

Actually I just purchased an Supra SA 450 Worlds Edition and when you compare the features side by side the Malibu MXZ is higher priced. We were going between a 2013 MXZ and the SA, The MXZ had Surfgate, the 450 hp and GPS and it was actually higher priced than the SA and it did not include a comparable trailer to the trailer included in the Worlds package.

Here are the things we found to like better on the SA compared to the MXZ.

1) Attention to detail (fit and finished seemed better, more detail in the interior)
2) Smaller seats on the transom providing a larger sun deck
3) Power/Heated drivers seat
4) Handling (handles like it is on rails)
5) Seemed to accelerate and get on plane faster.
6) Larger play pen area.
7) Roswell Tower
8) Vision System and manual toggle switches
9) Less money than the MXZ with same options
10) From our perspective it seems to have a larger cleaner surf wake. It does take about 9 minutes to change side with the 750 bags and hard tanks but the wake is very clean. The MXZ with surf gate has an over spray that makes the wake not look as clean. The over spray does not affect the wake other than the look of it.

We just found the SA to be a better fit for what we were looking for. I really believe that this boat will surprise a lot of people once the get in one on the water. These are the things that appealed to us.

Not to mention it was about $4000.00 cheaper with comparable options, So take off the $2500 for surfgate and still $1500 less.

Last edited by nelson5150; 06-04-2013 at 6:42 PM.
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