Suicide..

I see a point within the case of the illness situation and you're on life support and that's the only thing keeping you alive...
Other than that they are selfish they are only worried about themselves and they do not think about what it does to the people around them. Like the OP says he lost contact with an elementary school friend and 10+ years later the guy offs himself and it ripples through effecting so many. Do you think that he was the only one that knew the guy and took it as a complete shock? People the guy didn't even know probably were effected.
All of the guys friends and family will most likely blame themselves as no human being should feel the need to end their own life for personal demons inside.
Just my point of view, I've had to save someone before. Anyway the person is selfish and doesn't truly think of what there actions truly do. Again in the OP he says Kurt Kobain was the first one he heard of, he was popular but he was someone he never knew or met and it effected him.
I'm just saying it effects more people than you think. What about those reading about it or hearing it on the news? It's all bad

Nothing affected the op. He heard about suicide and was saddened; tough cookies, it didn't make him reevaluate his life or have a lasting impact. Why do we pretend to care so deeply about people we hardly know if we're certain no matter what happens to them our lives will continue regularly after the "mourning" has ceased.

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Who is more to be pitied, a writer bound and gagged by policemen or one living in perfect freedom who has nothing more to say? Kurt Vonnegut

Personally, I think calling someone selfish for ending their pain is rather selfish in itself. Why would you ask someone who is in extreme pain to continue living so that their family doesn't have to be sad? That's extremely inhumane. If a person had a disease that caused incredible pain, would you expect him to not pull the plug so his family doesn't have to deal with that pain? Why do we as a society recognize the realness of physical pain but deny the realness of emotional pain?

Ultimately, I think suicide is illogical, but it surely isn't selfish.

I see where you are coming from but...
People kill themselves because they don't feel living is worth it anymore,in one shape or another that is the center vision of the idea Suicide. But when you take your life not only are you hurting yourself,you are hurting many others. That itself is selfish,but if someone is wanting to go then let it be. They are trying to end their suffering. If one of my loved ones brought it up i wouldn't just let it be,i would try and make it better for them as a whole. Suicide is a sin for all you guys out there who believe in G-d.

Personally, I think calling someone selfish for ending their pain is rather selfish in itself. Why would you ask someone who is in extreme pain to continue living so that their family doesn't have to be sad? That's extremely inhumane. If a person had a disease that caused incredible pain, would you expect him to not pull the plug so his family doesn't have to deal with that pain? Why do we as a society recognize the realness of physical pain but deny the realness of emotional pain?

Ultimately, I think suicide is illogical, but it surely isn't selfish.

Then why support euthanization? Why should they be allowed to give up? Why shouldn't they have to endure agony with hope like the suicidal depressed do?

Clear the prisons!

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Also, what does any of this have to do with selfishness? If the people that commit suicide lack courage, then they are cowards not selfish.

Touche

Selfishness, cowardice or whatever, people are weak and they quit before they can make a change. EVERYONE has the opportunity to make a good life for themselves. Some have to put in more effort than others, but the opportunity is still there. They've just been raised to quit. Let 'em.

I'm sure Iamamartianchurch was referring (at least in part) to traditions in India and other eastern philosophies where the elderly end their lives after a life well lived. Sometimes by starving themselves to death, certainly no 'coward's way out'.

I'm sure Iamamartianchurch was referring (at least in part) to traditions in India and other eastern philosophies where the elderly end their lives after a life well lived. Sometimes by starving themselves to death, certainly no 'coward's way out'.

I wasn't mocking it. Killing oneself when you are not depressed or in pain but primarily for what they think is a just cause takes some balls. Not saying suicide bombers are right ,but they are most definitely not cowards.

Expanded:
Taking your life when you've done what you set out to do. When there is nothing left to accomplish.

Its unfortunate that some of us can't step out of our own perspectives and write **** off by mocking it.

Looked it up, Jain monks often fast to death, as well as the elderly. And in Hinduism it is acceptable for the elderly fast to death provided their "obligations" have been met and they no longer have ambition.

I wasn't mocking it. Killing oneself when you are not depressed or in pain but primarily for what they think is a just cause takes some balls. Not saying suicide bombers are right ,but they are most definitely not cowards.

If you think it is a just cause, it probably is a just cause. Since the lack of any objective axiom prevents us from making an absolute determination on what is and is not just.

Yes, they are most definitely not cowards.

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Originally Posted by Umami

Looked it up, Jain monks often fast to death, as well as the elderly. And in Hinduism it is acceptable for the elderly fast to death provided their "obligations" have been met and they no longer have ambition.

Personally, I think calling someone selfish for ending their pain is rather selfish in itself. Why would you ask someone who is in extreme pain to continue living so that their family doesn't have to be sad? That's extremely inhumane. If a person had a disease that caused incredible pain, would you expect him to not pull the plug so his family doesn't have to deal with that pain? Why do we as a society recognize the realness of physical pain but deny the realness of emotional pain?

Ultimately, I think suicide is illogical, but it surely isn't selfish.

Just had to bring this back up. Speaking from my experience from my suicide attempt, it was extremely selfish of me. When I think about it, there's seems to me that there is no reason to commit suicide.

I do differentiate between suicide and dieing for something you believe in (ie Jainism, etc)

I'm not quite sure how mediafire works. Would it be much of a hastle? And in my circles classical music would seem rather snooty but so is studying philosophy sooo...

Just go to the library. They have these things called CDs. The ancients used to use them to listen to music and store information. You would put 750mb in your pocket... If you had a big pocket. It's not snooty. There was a guy in my dorm that used to blast Metallica all the time. After I introduced him to Vivaldi the Metallica blasting decreased. There was much rejoicing.

I think Suicide, like any act, is both selfish and unselfish. It depends on perspective.

Personally I would like it if suicide was legal and accepted though. I would like to get their organs fresh and without toxins if they used pills. If one could just go to the hospital and be taken down quickly and painlessly, then organs and tissue could be salvaged for transplant and research.

Records are cheap. I once bought Toscanani conducting 4 Wagner Overtures and a collection of Beethoven which included all his violin concertos and piano sonatas all for 8 dollars total. If you can deal with the pain in the *** format it is well worth it.

Not saying suicide bombers are right ,but they are most definitely not cowards.

I'm sorry but you giving any merit to suicide bombers really reinforces my instinct to disregard your opinion. Most suicide bombers in the middle east are teenagers age 12-18. They are brainwashed to think either they will not be harmed or their religion will reward them in the next life, or in some cases they have no idea what they are even strapping to themselves in the first place.