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"Durango is going to be expensive [laughs], you know $500, $300 for the subscription, that kind of thing, but you know, Blu-ray, blah blah blah, but the thing that interest me, going back and looking at some of the stuff I got a long time ago, it actually says 'must be internet-connected to use' in the notes. And that's all I have, but it does say that.

I've been a loyal xbox for a long time but I'm really leaning on going to sony with the next gen. Obviously I'll wait till xbox announces the console and it's details but all these rumors aren't looking good.

I've been a loyal xbox for a long time but I'm really leaning on going to sony with the next gen. Obviously I'll wait till xbox announces the console and it's details but all these rumors aren't looking good.

I honestly can't see how MS wouldn't be completely screwed if they required always online.

So the system would then be always online + would need a subscription to even be used online?

I'd actually be quite surprised if live went up in price. As a service it doesn't do anything...

It's Microsoft, they'll think adding whatever amount of services to it will justify a price increase.

Ps4 is likely to be $400 or $450, it has to be unless Sony is insane. Sony always sells consoles at a massive loss when first released going all the way back to PS1. If they keep the online free (and they should), it's a must buy for me at that price. Even the PS3 was sold at a massive loss because of Cell.

More news - Same source: Official unveiling 5/21, will be weaker than PS4. Price is driven up by Kinect 2.0.

Going to wait before I see the pricing for these systems and finals specs... but ya Sony is way in the lead for me right now... and i'm not even a Sony fan... (also if Sony makes a bundle with PS4 and Vita i'll pre-order tomorrow...)

It's Microsoft, they'll think adding whatever amount of services to it will justify a price increase.

Ps4 is likely to be $400 or $450, it has to be unless Sony is insane. Sony always sells consoles at a massive loss when first released going all the way back to PS1. If they keep the online free (and they should), it's a must buy for me at that price. Even the PS3 was sold at a massive loss because of Cell.

More news - Same source: Official unveiling 5/21, will be weaker than PS4. Price is driven up by Kinect 2.0.

Shuhei said we might be see some difference in the PS+ upcoming. We might not have a ps+ for the PS4.

So May 21st now? That's not a smart move IMO pushing it back further after pS4 getting so much steam.

Both consoles will be just fine, performance wise. All they'll ever have to do is push 1080p, max.

They won't, see: John Carmack's tweets. It's highly unlikely your average game will push 1080p and/or 60 fps, because people would rather make their games look pretty. I hope we get 1080p games, but considering we didn't get many 720p games this gen, I am doubtful.

Microsoft is investing in TV in a big way with its next Xbox console as part of a fight for the living room. Multiple sources familiar with the company's Xbox plans have revealed to The Verge that Microsoft will introduce a feature that lets its next-generation console take over a TV and set-top box in a similar way to Google TV. We understand that the next Xbox will require an online connection to use the entertainment services, allowing them to be always-on for streaming and access to TV signals.