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Topic: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream') (Read 7026 times)

Me and my fiance have just bought our first house together in a beautiful part of the country in Kidwelly and are moving in straight after we come back from our honeymoon in September. One of the main reasons for buying the property we have is the garden that goes along with it. Its a whooping 55 meters long with a further 20 meter allotment just across the lane which is ours too. Being as self sufficient as we can is something we have talked about since we started courting and its been a dream of ours for a long while now but now we have the property and are full of excitement we dont know where to start. I am not going to come on here and ask for advice as I know regular forum users do not like a vague explanation and would rather deal with specifics and I have researched the areas of interest to us but if you know of any sites that maybe of use to us then that would be greatly appreciated. We have lots of plans for the place (some of them well be pie in the sky but our dreams have brought us this far so why not dream hey) including, keeping chickens and ducks (for eggs (we couldn't possibly ever think about killing them for meat)), vegetable and fruit growing, bee keeping, a herb garden and obviously somewhere for us humans to sit and enjoy the garden. I haven't read anything that would negate any of these possibilities but perhaps someone out there can see the glaring error in my plan.

The plan will be to complete each segment as we go along and I will be asking for advice on more specific topics as things progress but at the moment I am asking simply this, what should go where? the garden is 4m x 55m and the allotment at the bottom is 4m x 20m. Is there something startlingly obvious I am missing? I am sorry if I am being very vague and please be kind with your responses. I am very new to all this, a guy with a starry eyed dream! ;D

Welcome to our addiction! And congratulations on the upcoming wedding and planning before jumping into gardening like some of us have done. I'll be interested to hear people's ideas but thought I'd refer you to one of the member's excellent videos by allaboutliverpool of all his garden work- the most organized plot I've ever seen and super productive. He has many good ideas to copy. I don't believe he has livestock though.

We'll be excited to hear how yours develops and hope you post LOTS of photos. We all get many ideas from each other, maybe too many some spouses would say ;D all the while gorging on our raspberries and tomatoes of course!

OMG You're so lucky!!! How exciting. As grannieA says - can you post pictures?

If you're cultivating a segment at a time, you might just need to work out how much you can clear now, which can take some winter crops. Then you clear more over winter ready for spring crops, and then summer planting.

At some point you will want to have a crop rotation plan. There are threads on the forum on that, as well as stuff in books and on the internet.

How long have you got before you have to be self-sufficient, income-wise?My allotment contributes to keeping us, but I also work, so it's not so dire if I plant the wrong thing or it's slow to take off.

I haven't ever kept animals, but there is a board for that - I think several people on here know something about it and can advise you on what to do when.

Only advice that I'd give at this stage, is spend as much time thinking & planning as possible.

If possible, I'd suggest spending 12 months in the house first, so that you get a feel for the weather conditions / aspects of the gardens / winter flooding etc. - but there is no way that you're going to do that :)

If I were you, I'd:

1. Write a comprehensive list of thing that you want to do

2. Prioritise the list, by how much you want them

3. Then, put them in the order that you want to achieve them

4. Record the timing of when things need to happen. For example, if you start with bees, you'll be looking at getting a colony around May / June time. You can therefore research, and get yourself booked on a course before then.

Another example would be fruit trees. If you're planting bare-rooted ones, you'll be looking at putting them in when they're dormant over the late Autumn / Winter.

5. Think about any practicalities of day-to-day use, like water supply. If you've got to fill watering cans from outside the house, then schlep them 55m to your carrots, you'll soon get tired of it.

6. Measure the site(s), recording the aspects and, look at the gradient of the land - so you can work out where the water will flow in the lovely Welsh Winter

7. Do everything, and move everything just once. By that, if you have to move something, like a bunch of rocks, think carefully about where they need to go, and why. You don't want to shift something into a 'temporary' location, only to have to move it 6 months later when you start digging the pond

8. Enjoy every minute of the adventure

Armed with all of that, you can plan what to do when, where. Speaking for myself, if I didn't take that approach I'd get waaay to carried away with doing too much at a time.

Get a large scale Ordnance map, and check the precise height above sea level, and have several soil samples tested. This may save you a lot of time trying to grow things which simply won`t grow in your soil or your situation and give you a much better idea of what will thrive.

Welcome from another expat, though I'm from the North end. Regarding what to grow in your garden or on your plot, is your allotment one of many, or simply an extra bit of garden..........is it secure, from people or animals.......are there any trees in your garden which might shade it.....There is a huge amount of expertise on this forum, stay with it, and enjoy what sounds like a wonderful future.

I like my herbs close to the kitchen so I can just nip out in the middle of cooking to pick them. With all your plans I think that you will be surprised just how fast the space available will be used up. I think you will also find that time also becomes an issue what with jobs and social life to fit in as well.

I grow lots of veg and I hope that you enjoy your gardening as much as I do mine.

Did the former owners say what was planted in the garden? If not it might be worthwhile seeing what comes up in the Spring before digging everywhere. You might be sitting on a goldmine of perennials ;D

Hi and Welcome, we are not like most forums.. so go haead and be vague, we will all enjoy helping you

The site I would send to yo to is Tee gees there are all sorts of realistic advice there.

We have folks here who are pretty good with certain veggies so take a look around and ask antything you like.

We are a very friendly lot.

Can you have animals, you said yiou wanted to be as self sufficiesnt as possible, so are you allowed eg a goat.

My husband and I were self sufficient for many years but farm animals were fine as we had 10 acres,

We did the whole thing, even making our own cheeses, canning meat and fish, growing everything ourselves, we even swapped home made preserves for fresh cows milk to make cheeese, butter and cream and we swapped cakes for honey.

We kept piglets and sheep, goats, chickens, ducks geese and even a couple of peacocks which we kept for eggs which we hatched and sold the chicks, and I used to take pigs to market and buy beef on the hoof with the money.

We loved it. the best life in the world.

XX Jeannine

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When God blesses you with a multitude of seeds double the blessing by sharing your seeds with other folks.

Thank you so much for the kind words everyone. I went on a travel forum once and said that I was thinking of going on honeymoon to Hawaii and did anyone have any ideas were to stay or what to do. Within two minutes I had about 10 replies telling me how lazy I was and to look myself. I have stayed away from posting on forums ever since so I must say I am ever so pleased with the wonderful and helpful responses I have had here.

Perhaps I should have been a little more detailed in my post though. So I'll take it through the garden as I see it separated out and as I have said before I welcome anyone pointing out the glaring mistakes I have made here as I am completely new to all this and its still very vague but as we have said this is a plan.

The allotment.This is possibly the most obvious section of the garden. Its 20m x 4m so there is a bit of space there to work in. We are hoping that this will serve as the vegetable garden in which we hope to grow peas, swede, broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, leeks, onions, brussel sprouts, potatoes and runner beans. However I already have to say a great big thank you to GrannieAnnie for the link which subsequently led me to the "three sisters" or companion planting. This sort of space saving system of vegetable growing will be a massive use to us so I will now add sweetcorn to the list :) . Obviously this is something for later discussion. I will be reading about crop rotation this weekend but that's just for my own enjoyment at the minute. One note about this section of the garden though is that this is where we would also eventually like to place our bee hive. This is my first dilemma. Is this the correct place for a hive? I haven't looked closely into the bee keeping side of things (This is one of Sian's ideas and therefore it is her baby to see through (in fairness to her she is going on a course with the local beekeeper association) but initially when it come to setting everything out in a plan I will need to know where best to put it.

Section one and the furthest reaches of the garden. The chickens and ducks.This section will be 10m x 4m and if this is only for the animals its more than enough room for the amounts of animals we hope to keep. Working on the premise of 1m square of run for each chicken and the fact we are only hoping to keep about 6 chickens and a couple of ducks then we should be fine in regards to space. However it is important to us to ensure that they have enough space as possible and though there seems to be a lot of info on keeping chickens there is very little on here about ducks so this will have to be researched more thoroughly closer to the time and the dimensions of the area needed may be revisited.

Section two. The fruit garden.Again I dont know how realistic we are being in regards to this but ideally we would like to grow a wide range of berries (strawberries, blackberries, raspberries, etc etc) as well as apple and pear trees. We were thinking of allocating around 15m x 4m for this section of the garden. This is the least thought about section so far but that's mainly because this will be one of the latter projects and things will inevitably change as we go on. However after seeing the video GrannyA put the link in for Sian now wants to grow melons so it looks like these will have to be accounted for too! :)

Section three. Our garden.This is not fleshed out at all but it will be mainly made up of lawn with border flowers, a little concrete BBQ and a patio area. its going to be roughly 20m x 4m and should allow us an area for us to relax in the garden (though I dont see that happening anytime in the next 20 years :) )

Section four. The herb garden.Does what it says on the tin really. Nearest the house will be hopefully be a herb garden of about 10m x 4. On this we hope to grow basil, mint, garlic, peppers, coriander, sage, rosemary etc.

That's a very vague plan for what we would like to be able to do in there at the minute and we know that things will change. We will be posting a video tour through the mess that is our garden currently as soon as we get back from honeymoon so you can all see it at its worst. However once again if you see anything here that just wouldn't work then please shout as I'd rather know at this stage.Once again thank very much for all your help so far but more importantly for your warm welcome. I feel quite at home here already. ;D

Hi and Welcome, we are not like most forums.. so go haead and be vague, we will all enjoy helping you

The site I would send to yo to is Tee gees there are all sorts of realistic advice there.

We have folks here who are pretty good with certain veggies so take a look around and ask antything you like.

We are a very friendly lot.

Can you have animals, you said yiou wanted to be as self sufficiesnt as possible, so are you allowed eg a goat.

My husband and I were self sufficient for many years but farm animals were fine as we had 10 acres,

We did the whole thing, even making our own cheeses, canning meat and fish, growing everything ourselves, we even swapped home made preserves for fresh cows milk to make cheeese, butter and cream and we swapped cakes for honey.

We kept piglets and sheep, goats, chickens, ducks geese and even a couple of peacocks which we kept for eggs which we hatched and sold the chicks, and I used to take pigs to market and buy beef on the hoof with the money.

We loved it. the best life in the world.

XX Jeannine

Maybe in the future we will buy some extra land and progress to goats etc but there is no way we could rear anything for slaughter. Not that we don't eat meat but I know we would get too attached to the animals to ever see them on our plates. I am not judging anyone as I would be devastated not to have roast lamb with my sunday dinner, just saying what works for us.

You've got some great advice here, from gardeners with more experience and expertise than me. I would just add a few ideas so you can be planning and planting your fruit this autumn and winter - hope you don't get information overload! ;D

Since your fruit-growing space is quite limited, I suggest you grow apple cordons: the initial outlay should be reasonably cheap, the pruning is quite straightforward and you can grow a large range of varieties for cropping at different times in a small space. Get to lots of Apple Day-type events this autumn to taste varieties you may want to grow - a balance of cookers and eaters. Cordons can be grown at a 45 degree angle facing the sun, which allows them to grow taller but at a pickable height.

You'll find raspberries (summer or autumn ones) give an early return, while you wait for the top fruit (ie tree fruit) trees to mature; redcurrants and gooseberries crop at quite a young age, too. Some varieties are tolerant of shade, eg I grow my raspberries about 3 metres from an oak tree. Others, by contrast, need lots of sunshine.

When you're thinking about choice of fruit crops, think about if/when you plan to take an annual holiday - you wouldn't want to miss a huge plum crop because you're eating chips in Skegness, that fortnight! ;D

I know very little about bees, except that hives are often sited in orchards, where they help with pollination.

Keep in mind that every growing season is different, with its own challenges and unexpected bonuses. Just go with the flow, because our plans never come to fruition precisely as we'd visualised them.

A final word: Keep a record of which varieties you've planted and where because you can be sure that labels will get lost, sooner or later.

My one concern about The Three Sisters, and why I don't use that method anymore but perhaps someone on the forum can explain otherwise, is that for me, picking the beans without stepping on squash vines was too difficult. If you are only planting for the dry bean seeds, that would be okay, but if you're planting to pick green runner beans daily, it would be a royal pain.

I grow Violette (purple) runner beans because they can tolerate part shade and produce earlier than green ones. I grow them up horizontal wires which are easier to pick. "Goodlife" in the UK is also growing them and it is her favorite.

well wow what a project you have there! And I wish you loads of success.

A couple of things to add to the pot - what is your budget? For equipment, mower, shed, greenhouse etc - loads of things can be got off freecycle and the likes. I think I'd try and get an idea of what you want and need and some rough costs

I'd also check out the prevailing winds and think about shelter for tender stuff likes sedlings- maybe your fruit bushes would help there?

And GrannyAnnie's point about Arbors and benches is spot on - you need somewhere to sit and relax, think a little, and day dream some more :)

A bot of advice about your fruit. If you are short on space, to decide on what to grow I would choose the sort tnqat is difficult to find in the shops without need in a a mortgage ..eg raspberries foe sure, blueberries to, but not blackberries as there are so many in the wild.

For fruit trees I would go for an apricot if you can give it some protection and possibly a peach.Then maybe a plum. The peach and apricot you could espalier along a wall then drip some protection over it, it would take up very little space and there is no shop sub for fresh peaches. If going for apples or pears then I agree that step overs or cordons would be my first choice.

I can help you when you come to your corn, beans and squash next year and give you lot of fors and against the three sisters method. It is a good idea but it does have to be given the space it needs.

WE are not really a forum, we are family on the net!!

I really envy you.

XX Jeannine

PS I love Khaki Campbell ducks for eggs and they are smshing slug catchers.

Logged

When God blesses you with a multitude of seeds double the blessing by sharing your seeds with other folks.

Within two minutes I had about 10 replies telling me how lazy I was and to look myself.

Oh that made me laugh - what a strange thing to say to you! What did they think a forum is for? Honestly some people are so grumpy they shouldn't be allowed online! ;D

It sounds gorgeous, you're going to have a great time.

And Jeannine - I didn't know all that about you! That sounds amazingly well-organised! How do you deal with your small plot at your new allotments in the park - don't you get the urge to herd goats across it sometimes?