Vandalour, there are a few things contained in large ratios in meat that you don't find in most vegetables, beans or cereals. These nutrients are
essential in the physical and especially neuro-cerebral development and overall metabolism:

Lipids
Amino Acids
B12

Which are found in sufficient quantities on animal and animal bacterias. Amino acids, the most important, perhaps, on a daily basis can be found in
some cereals (quinoa is very strong with it) but aren,t very good competitors with meat on that aspect. It is what allows the body to transform
proteins and carbon dioxide, among other vital elements, into energy.

I think the problem with meat in industrial regions of the planet is that they are heavily contaminated with many kinds of unhealthy toxins,
pesticides and hormones that rendered them undigestable and even toxic to consumption. The proof of that is that pre-colonial Native people here have
been eating animals for millennias and were known to be very healthy and physically fit people, and -perhaps- even wiser than the Europeans who came.
But today they eat the same poo than us.

Meat is good, it's the way we exploit and produce it that makes it dog food. Look at North American countries.... we imported most of the cattle from
Europe instead of developing our food markets on animals that were already available here. Because these cattle were unable to sustain themselves in
nature, a large part of the cereal industry had to be devoted to feeding them with grains instead pf plants (and especially now grains full of crappy
chemicals).

This entire industry is WRONG from the start. The only solutions are either to part ourselves form it as much as we can and move to a more
eco-conscious way of producing. it is developing now through local cooperative markets, fortunately, but it's unlikely to be sufficient, since as you
see with the Codex Alimentaris, the corporatist governments are likely to wage war on anything that's not related to their big, crappy industry.

The reason these hominids are our ancestors and not our contemporaries is precisely because they were vegetarian. If we had remained vegetarian we
would still be living in the trees. Meat was necessary for the explosion in our brainsize.

I find it amusing that every veggy alive on this planet today or in the future owes their brainsize, intelligence and their very existence to the fact
that their ancestors turned to meat. Don't get me wrong, morally I'd be veggy but I love meat too much.

In response to our eating of meat I think a fairer comparison than other apes, would be to compare us to wolves, some sharks, dolphins and certain big
cats that are all social, hierarchical, predatory, aggressive and intelligent. What's the common denominator? Duh meat!

An earlier poster mentioned the requirement for supplements for vegetarians/vegans which dismisses the entire argument that humans should not eat
meat. A co-worker was convinced by a "holistic doctor" that his health problems were the result of eating meat. He went on his diet and did ok for
about 18 mos until the B12 deficiency nearly snuffed him. Now, he has regular shots of B12 and is doing ok once again, but the inablity of the human
to produce B12 says that we are either natural omnivores that need meat or vegans that need modern medicine to provide supplements found only in
animals.
I have no distain for those who choose to avoid dietary meat. My annoyance is with the veggie-folk zealots who feel that they must proselytize to the
normal folk and carry on about the evils of the meat eaters. My advice to them is take your supplements, eat what you want, pay your taxes, and stop
preaching.

The reason these hominids are our ancestors and not our contemporaries is precisely because they were vegetarian. If we had remained vegetarian we
would still be living in the trees. Meat was necessary for the explosion in our brainsize.

Our nearest ancestor the Neanderthals hominids were vegan, and NO they were not living on tree branches. They were very social beings, living in caves
for the most part.

Also there are still humans living in trees today and there's nothing wrong with that... They don't have regular internet access and a shopping mall
nearby, but I don't see how it makes them less "evolved".

Well, to live, somethings are essential, some not.
Protein and Fat are essencial, carbs are not.
There is a RDA for protein and fat, but not for carbs.

You don't need carbs to live. Not saying all carbs are bad, and don't have some vitamins etc, but they are not needed to live, and are connected
with our modern illenesses such as diabetes, cancer, heart disease.

I've been a strict vegetarian for 7.5 years and I am completely healthy. In fact, I'm the healthiest I have ever been.

If humans were suppose to eat meat, then why do we have to cook it? Omnivores have to cook their meat.

Its obvious humans were meant to be vegetarian, and the only way to find out is to become one. You will quickly learn that it was the right thing to
do as your health will actually improve.

And no, I don't need vitamins or supplements. It's very easy to get all the nutrients I need as a vegetarian. The BS that is wrote about vegetarians
strangely originates from tyson and other companies, and you guys fall for it hook line and sinker. Makes me wonder what other BS you unquestionably
believe.

I've been there, done the research, and became a vegetarian for close to a decade. Sorry, but I have more credentials than anyone in this thread and I
call BS on all you.

Have fun with flesh rotting in your colon for months after you eat it, have more fun trying to argue it's the right way to go.

edit on
22-1-2011 by The_Zomar because: Fixed: Omnivores have to cook their meat.

'The Omnivore's Dilemma' is a good read. One thing it mentions is how the corn and wheat consumed would feed the world more abundantly than the meat
from the animal eating it. Grass? Sure. The problem is, zea mays is the food of choice, animals that eat corn taste better than animals that eat
grass. You are what you eat applies to cows too.

Your response to my remark about global warming came from misunderstanding. I do not hold global warming to be true, but what I was saying is that the
greenhouse gasses which those who believe say cause global warming, come more from animal waste. Is that animal caused global warming? Sort of, but
it's still man-made because it is man that is working to mass-produce these animals. The reasons cow waste and flatulance puts so much greenhouse gas
into the air is because of the massive quantity of them.

Third, you say how nature intends for us to eat meat and veggies. That's true in several ways, but realize that it's not meat it's protein, iron,
vitamin B-12. You can get lots of this from animal produced products, plus except for B-12, there are oodles of other sources. How did we come to
think that our only source of protein was meat? Indeed we have the teeth and capabilities to consume both meats and veggies, but that's a survival
thing, not a must. What I mean here is, in a survival situation where you have nothing but animals, you had better eat that animal, and since humans
are the great adapters, their systems allow it. Are there things in animal products that we must have? Yes. Are there things in vegetable and fruit
products we must have? Yes. That is why we are omnivores, there are vitamins and nutrients in those which we need. However, when you come into a
civilized era that understands why, we can make adjustments. For instance, protein is found in much more than just meat, same with iron and calcium.
B-12 can be found in cheese and milk and vogurt and eggs and so on, without needing to kill the animals. Because we understand why, there is no reason
why we can't make decisions for preference. Just as you prefer to eat meat, I prefer not to. Depending on the other factors of how you eat, I may be
healthier or less healthy than you.

It's in our genes to get the vitamins and nutrients to survive and in our past, our knowledge was that you must eat meat and veggies. We now know that
it's more complicated than just food, but what's in the food. If you know why your supposed to eat a certain type of food, you can accomidate with
other food choices. There is very little in meat which cannot be replaced by something that is not meat.

I'm not trying to attack your credibility, I don't know how credible you are, I'm only responding to your post.

Your saying that meat in general has no contribution to obesity, cholesterol and so on? If not, let me know, it wasn't a clear message to read. If so,
how can you say that? Chicken and fish, sure, they are a ton more healthy. But red meats, bacon, ham, ect?

It's not a simple topic to discuss and I just want to let you know that I'm not attacking you or your credibility, I'm simply debating with you. You
didn't have to post all your links, I can go search for myself. I'm sure I'm right in some things and wrong in others just as you are, that's what
makes debating interesting, it's a learning process.

Until next time,

TheGoodDoctor

P.S. I just want to bring up another thing. Many vegetarians and vegans change their diet for philosophical and moral reasoning, not health. If you
disagree with them, that's fine. But, you have got to admit that sacraficing foods you might love to eat for a certain moral reason is admirable
whether you believe in the moral reason or not.

I eat about 3 eggs a day and drink 2 glasses of soymilk (which contains B12).
I get the equivalent amount of B12 as an omnivore gets eating about 4 sirloins a day without all the health risks that comes with virus sprayed meats.

actually we can eat raw meat. It just tastes better cooked. We also cook vegetables by the way. And hey, they taste better too. In fact I'll ague that
I prefer cooked foods, be it vegetables or meat.

I also like Buffalo far better than steak. Buffalo is more or less soy in concentrate. It does the complete opposite of steak. Clears the arteries,
makes you smarter. Very good food. Hmmm. I wonder if that's why the Native Americans and Old Westerners are some of the smartest and best people we've
known in our history?

You see the ignorant one is both you and the meat lover. I eat everything. I live up to the omnivore title.

Originally posted by Echtelion
Our nearest ancestor the Neanderthals hominids were vegan, and NO they were not living on tree branches. They were very social beings, living in caves
for the most part.

Actually, Neanderthal was not an ancestor to modern Humans, but of course as you seem to know so much about them, you'd know that.. They were also
almost exclusively carnivores, but again, you know that already, don't you. They did use cooked vegetables occasionally, mind you.

Originally posted by The_Zomar
The amount of ignorance in this thread is unbelievable !

Oh, the irony, given what you're about to say.....

Originally posted by The_Zomar
I've been a strict vegetarian for 7.5 years and I am completely healthy. In fact, I'm the healthiest I have ever been.

Well done. Do you use any supplements, or is it simply a diet of uncooked vegetables? If they are cooked vegetables, then that kind of blows you whole
premise clean out of the water.

Originally posted by The_ZomarIf humans were suppose to eat meat, then why do we have to cook it? Carnivores don't have to cook their meat.

Actually, one can process raw meat alot easier than raw vegetables. The human gut is incapable of breaking down cellulose, which if you don't cook
your veg, is what each and every cell is encased in, locking in alot of the nutrients.

Originally posted by The_Zomar
Its obvious humans were meant to be vegetarian, and the only way to find out is to become one. You will quickly learn that it was the right thing to
do as your health will actually improve.

No, it isn't obvious to anyone but the miltant veggies who cannot abide people eating meat and even then, they're totally wrong on almost every point
of evidence they bring up.

Originally posted by The_Zomar
And no, I don't need vitamins or supplements. It's very easy to get all the nutrients I need as a vegetarian.

By cooking the veg, ergo proving it isn;t a natural state to be in.

Originally posted by The_Zomar
I've been there, done the research, and became a vegetarian for close to a decade. Sorry, but I have more credentials than anyone in this thread and I
call BS on all you.

A tactic usually employed by those who actually have none whatsoever. Discredit the opposition by making it out you're more qualified.

Originally posted by The_Zomar
Have fun with flesh rotting in your colon for months after you eat it,

Utter bollocks. It doesn't sit there for months! Honestly, the crap some people spout is unreal. You can't have a reasoned and logical debate on here
anymore because you get an army of internet academics who "know it all", usually by flying in the face of real science.

Originally posted by The_Zomar
I eat about 3 eggs a day and drink 2 glasses of soymilk (which contains B12).
I get the equivalent amount of B12 as an omnivore gets eating about 4 sirloins a day without all the health risks that comes with virus sprayed meats.

Much different story when facts are involved eh?

What flawed logic! You assume because someone eats meat, they won't drink milk or esat eggs!

I eat meat and I also eat, on average, two eggs a day, sometimes more.

I had three today in my bacon sandwhich

What's your point again?

Also, that Soy milk you drink, processed crap. Not natural in the slightest and a modern invention that enables vegetenarianism, not proof
we're naturally veggies.

too much premise on eating one thing.....obviously anything in excess can and will cause harm. it's all about the balanced diet. everything must be
in moderation, it's the only way. if you say we are to be herbivorous you are disregarding human history, and that is very foolish. I definitely
agree meat has been put on a pedestal, and most people are consuming too much of it for their own good. But to cut it out of our diet completely is
absurd, asinine, quite idiotic really.

The Above Top Secret Web site is a wholly owned social content community of The Above Network, LLC.

This content community relies on user-generated content from our member contributors. The opinions of our members are not those of site ownership who maintains strict editorial agnosticism and simply provides a collaborative venue for free expression.