History DethroningMoment / Persona

* Tropers/{{immortalfrieza}}: The social links are one of my favorite parts of the Persona series, but some of them really grates my nerves at the end due to how backwards their resolutions are and how they throw all the development of the social link character out the window. For example, Yukiko's shadow and most of her social link are predominantly about how she despises being expected to stay in Inaba and take over the Amagi Inn and deciding she's going to get out as soon as she can. To make a long story short, the social link ends when Yukiko ultimately decides that she's just being an ungrateful brat and decides to take over the Amagi Inn after all. This is despite the fact that her ENTIRE character development is devoted to how much she hates the idea of having to run that Inn, learning to stand up for herself, and not be put into the boxes other people want her to, something she is completely correct about, ValuesDissonance be damned.

[[folder: Persona 4 Arena Ultimax]]* Tropers/{{matteste}}: It seems to be near universally agreed that Ultimax was the absolute low point in the franchise writing wise, but perhaps the biggest moment of crap that stands out in the game to me was [[spoiler:the reveal of the main villain, Hi-no-Kagutsuchi. I'm gonna get the elephant in the room out first, namely the fact of him practically being a poor mans Nyarlathotep, copied of one of the series most beloved villains instead of trying to be more original. Now perhaps that biggest issue with him however, his goals and motivations. His goal? [[GenericDoomsdayVillain Destroy the world]]. And his motivation? [[LonersAreFreaks So he can be alone due to being an embodiment of loners]]. Not only does this come of as incredibly tame and just dumb, but he also has an issue that is not present with the other embodiment villains in the series that leads to all kinds of [[UnfortunateImplications unpleasant implications]]. Namely that unlike the past ones, he represents a specific and defined group instead of an element of humanity as a whole. And with how he is portrayed, the group becomes portrayed in the same manner. And just to [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking add insult to injury]], [[AnticlimaxBoss he practically goes down without a fight]] just to make Stu Narukami look better]].[[/folder]]

* Tropers/CalamityRaven26: Now don't get me wrong, I absolutely ''love'' Persona 4. Hell, Persona 4 Golden is in my top five games of all time! But I seriously need to call bullshit out even with the best of the best, especially in regards to my personal DMoS with this game, where [[spoiler: the Investigation Team attempts to kill Namatame and how you have to talk them out of it. I ''get'' that the team is irrational, especially after Nanako died, but seriously, they acted like complete idiots during that scene. Not only was it ''more'' obvious that something was off in regards to the situation than it was during the Mitsuo scene, but I wanted to ''punch'' Yosuke for thinking murdering somebody when we haven't even heard his side of the story yet. I get that people were angry over Nanako's death, but I was so irritated with this irrationality, as it's completely an OutOfCharacterMoment for the team. But what ''really'' ruins this scene for me is the gameplay implications: in an {{Egregious}} case of GuideDangIt, you have to choose the ''exact response chain'' in order to avoid the second-worst ending. I understand that this game's message is all about the truth, but why make it possible to get a bad ending when incorrectly guessing the killer the next day? Not only does it feel completely stupid on both the characters and developers' parts to make ONE innocent mistake automatically lead to the BadEnd, but it feels downright patronizing, given that the Investigation Team was completely under the control of the IdiotBall ''and'' how much of an insulting GuideDangIt it is.]] Persona 4 is a damn-near perfect game, but it's only ''near'' perfect because this one, shitty moment exists.

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* Tropers/CalamityRaven26: Tropers/{{CalamityRaven26}}: Now don't get me wrong, I absolutely ''love'' Persona 4. Hell, Persona 4 Golden is in my top five games of all time! But I seriously need to call bullshit out even with the best of the best, especially in regards to my personal DMoS DethroningMomentOfSuck with this game, where [[spoiler: the Investigation Team attempts to kill Namatame and how you have to talk them out of it. I ''get'' that the team is irrational, especially after Nanako died, but seriously, they acted like complete idiots during that scene. Not only was it ''more'' obvious that something was off in regards to the situation than it was during the Mitsuo scene, but I wanted to ''punch'' Yosuke for thinking murdering somebody when we haven't even heard his side of the story yet. I get that people were angry over Nanako's death, but I was so irritated with this irrationality, as it's completely an OutOfCharacterMoment for the team. But what ''really'' ruins this scene for me is the gameplay implications: in an {{Egregious}} case of GuideDangIt, you have to choose the ''exact response chain'' in order to avoid the second-worst ending. I understand that this game's message is all about the truth, but why make it possible to get a bad ending when incorrectly guessing the killer the next day? Not only does it feel completely stupid on both the characters and developers' parts to make ONE innocent mistake automatically lead to the BadEnd, but it feels downright patronizing, given that the Investigation Team was completely under the control of the IdiotBall ''and'' how much of an insulting GuideDangIt it is.]] Persona 4 is a damn-near perfect game, but it's only ''near'' perfect because this one, shitty moment exists.

* Tropers/CalamityRaven26: Now don't get me wrong, I absolutely ''love'' Persona 4. Hell, Persona 4 Golden is in my top five games of all time! But I seriously need to call bullshit out even with the best of the best, especially in regards to my personal DMoS with this game, where [[spoiler: the Investigation Team attempts to kill Namatame and how you have to talk them out of it. I ''get'' that the team is irrational, especially after Nanako died, but seriously, they acted like complete idiots during that scene. Not only was it ''more'' obvious that something was off in regards to the situation than it was during the Mitsuo scene, but I wanted to ''punch'' Yosuke for thinking murdering somebody when we haven't even heard his side of the story yet. I get that people were angry over Nanako's death, but I was so irritated with this irrationality, as it's completely an OutOfCharacterMoment for the team. But what ''really'' ruins this scene for me is the gameplay implications: in an {{Egregious}} case of GuideDangIt, you have to choose the ''exact response chain'' in order to avoid the second-worst ending. I understand that this game's message is all about the truth, but why make it possible to get a bad ending when incorrectly guessing the killer the next day? Not only does it feel completely stupid on both the characters and developers' parts to make ONE innocent mistake automatically lead to the BadEnd, but it feels downright patronizing, given that the Investigation Team was completely under the control of the IdiotBall ''and'' how much of an insulting GuideDangIt it is.]] Persona 4 is a damn-near perfect game, but it's only ''near'' perfect because this one, shitty moment exists.

[[folder: Persona 5]]* Animeking1108: Throughout most of ''VideoGame/{{Persona 5}}'', I tolerated Morgana and at least considered him an improvement over Teddie. However, my goodwill for the character was nearly squandered when [[spoiler: he ran away from the Phantom Thieves]]? Why? Because Ryuji kept calling him useless after Futaba took over as the MissionControl. Sure, that sounds understandable, but Morgana really shows off his Glass House when you remember that throughout most of the game, he kept berating Ryuji for every little mistake he made. This is only made worse when Ryuji is the only one that has to apologize to get him to come back, and despite that, Morgana still goes back to insulting Ryuji.

* Animeking1108: The last few hours were really when the plot of ''Persona 4'' started to get [[IdiotPlot stupid]], but I think one thing that infuriated me was [[spoiler: Nanako's death and resurrection]]. First, let's talk about how it triggers the events leading to either the good or bad ending. The game was basically using [[spoiler: the death of a child]] to [[StuffedInTheFridge emotionally manipulate the player into picking the bad ending]]. If you decide to [[spoiler: spare Namatame, Nanako comes back to life]]. First, [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot it negated a potential moment of character development for the heroes, showing that they're not perfect enough to save the day every time]]. Second, [[UnfortunateImplications it's a huge slap in the face to people who actually had to bury their children or siblings]] by having the situation resolved with a ResetButton. Third, [[BrokenAesop it completely goes against the moral of Naoki and Hisano's Social Links]] about [[spoiler: coming to terms with the death of a loved one]]. [[AssPull Finally, there is no explanation behind this aside from]] ThePowerOfFriendship. I'd expect this kind of writing out of the kids' shows everyone here seems to like, not a fucking [[Franchise/ShinMegamiTensei SMT]] game. [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTNP792ykYM I'll just let the Nostalgia Critic sum up my feelings on this scene]].

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* Animeking1108: The last few hours were really when the plot of ''Persona 4'' started to get [[IdiotPlot stupid]], but I think one thing that infuriated me was [[spoiler: Nanako's death and resurrection]]. First, let's talk about how it triggers the events leading to either the good or bad ending. The game was basically using [[spoiler: the death of a child]] to [[StuffedInTheFridge emotionally manipulate the player into picking the bad ending]]. If you decide to [[spoiler: spare Namatame, Nanako comes back to life]]. First, [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot it negated a potential moment of character development for the heroes, showing that they're not perfect enough to save the day every time]]. Second, [[UnfortunateImplications it's a huge slap in the face to people who actually had to bury their children or siblings]] by having the situation resolved with a ResetButton. Third, [[BrokenAesop it completely goes against the moral of Naoki and Hisano's Yosuke's Social Links]] Links]], as well as the entirety of ''Persona 3'', about [[spoiler: coming to terms with the death of a loved one]]. [[AssPull Finally, there is no explanation behind this aside from]] ThePowerOfFriendship. ''Persona 3'' may have done something similar with [[spoiler: Chidori]], but that gets a pass for two reasons: 1. That scene was optional and wasn't integral to getting the Good Ending. 2. ''The Answer'' reveals that that scene wasn't canon anyway. I'd expect this kind of writing out of the kids' shows everyone here seems to like, not a fucking [[Franchise/ShinMegamiTensei SMT]] game. [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTNP792ykYM I'll just let the Nostalgia Critic sum up my feelings on this scene]].

* Gene0129: The fact that [[{{Yandere}} Aigis]] [[KarmaHoudini never receives any true comeuppance for stalking the MC and trespassing into his territory]] made me relatively sick. Even worse is how Atlus expects us to see this as anything other than creepy and she immediately ends up a massive scrappy for me.

** Tropers/LucaEarlgrey: The hot springs scene. So Yuu and his male company walk into the hot springs for a relaxing soak, sincerely believing that the spring is empty and is now on males-only hours, only to accidentally walk in on their female friends still splashing around. Chie and company immediately strike back at the guys, interpreting it as an act of perversion. After the guys flee, the girls then realize that they had stayed too long and were bathing well past their timeslot into the men's timeslot... then scoff it off and continue to bathe anyway. Easily the worst and dumbest scene in the entire game, and a sterling example of DoubleStandardAbuseFemaleOnMale, and I was so pissed off that the next day I went into the TV and committed the Shadow equivalent of SuicideByCop.*** {{Ecclytennysmithylove}}: I agree. To drive the DMOS further, let's compare the Persona 4 hot spring episode with a similar hot spring episode of ''VideoGame/{{Persona 3}}'', in which the P3 boys stayed in the spring past their timeslot into the women's timeslot. In that episode, the P3 boys receiving DoubleStandardAbuseFemaleOnMale from the P3 girls (that is, if you fail the stealth-action minigame) actually works because of Ryoji and Junpei's dumb idea for the P3 boys to stay in the spring passed the allotted time for men, and therefore the P3 boys got punished for their actions. In the Persona 4 hot spring episode, however, it's gender-reversed and since no reasonable adults (i.e. Yukiko's parents because they're the owners of, y'know, the Amagi Hot Spring Inn) informed the P4 girls that their time in the spring is up, there is no reason as to why the P4 boys deserved abuse from the P4 girls.*** jake38: I have to admit, I love persona 4 and consider it one of my favorite JRPG'S, but I found the entire Amagi Inn scene to be the worst scene in the entire game, as it just made the whole group look like a bunch of assholes.

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** * Tropers/LucaEarlgrey: The hot springs scene. So Yuu and his male company walk into the hot springs for a relaxing soak, sincerely believing that the spring is empty and is now on males-only hours, only to accidentally walk in on their female friends still splashing around. Chie and company immediately strike back at the guys, interpreting it as an act of perversion. After the guys flee, the girls then realize that they had stayed too long and were bathing well past their timeslot into the men's timeslot... then scoff it off and continue to bathe anyway. Easily the worst and dumbest scene in the entire game, and a sterling example of DoubleStandardAbuseFemaleOnMale, and I was so pissed off that the next day I went into the TV and committed the Shadow equivalent of SuicideByCop.*** ** {{Ecclytennysmithylove}}: I agree. To drive the DMOS further, let's compare the Persona 4 hot spring episode with a similar hot spring episode of ''VideoGame/{{Persona 3}}'', in which the P3 boys stayed in the spring past their timeslot into the women's timeslot. In that episode, the P3 boys receiving DoubleStandardAbuseFemaleOnMale from the P3 girls (that is, if you fail the stealth-action minigame) actually works because of Ryoji and Junpei's dumb idea for the P3 boys to stay in the spring passed the allotted time for men, and therefore the P3 boys got punished for their actions. In the Persona 4 hot spring episode, however, it's gender-reversed and since no reasonable adults (i.e. Yukiko's parents because they're the owners of, y'know, the Amagi Hot Spring Inn) informed the P4 girls that their time in the spring is up, there is no reason as to why the P4 boys deserved abuse from the P4 girls.*** ** jake38: I have to admit, I love persona 4 and consider it one of my favorite JRPG'S, but I found the entire Amagi Inn scene to be the worst scene in the entire game, as it just made the whole group look like a bunch of assholes.

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