2012-05-07T18:44:56ZFluxBBhttp://forum.longturn.org/viewtopic.php?id=159Even if this poll will not be applied, can you check that Terror hasn't been voting with hacked clients?]]>http://forum.longturn.org/profile.php?id=592012-05-07T18:44:56Zhttp://forum.longturn.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1243#p1243jhh wrote:

That's just bullshit. Being online 24/7 does not imply using scripts. I have never used scripts in long games, at freeciv.fi nor at longturn.org.

I'm not saying that exactly. I say the defense of being able to play 24/7 suggests two things to me: 1. An appreciation mistake, since it's ridiculous to compare the reasons given here by defenders and detractors of 24/7... until now. It's not serious to want to be online 24/7 for "comfortable reasons" when detractors are saying it spoils the game. Can anyone believe you want to keep the client logged in 24/7 only for "comfortable reasons" and you don't give a damn to spoil the game for the rest? Only for comfort? I don't understand so much determination in your position if it's only for comfort. 2. Some of defenders of 24/7 want to open a gap to keep using...

Is a 3rd option possible?

If you haven't used scripts nor want to be online to kill moving units or fill in cities being attacked etc, then you are in the group 1.

jhh wrote:

Not ignoring. That rule is unclear and it can be interpret to be just a suggestion. I thought it was, since other LT veterans were doing it, too.

I think this rule has no interpretations: "It is common courtesy to log out and let your enemy do his moves in peace, after you have done yours" It says what it says.Nevertheless you can obey or not to obey, and you chose not to obey because you knew it wouldn't lead to any punishment. That's the mistake in the rule.Other players, not only don't respect this rule, but also take advantage by killing moving units, logging moves, etc...; to make matters worse, they say they want to keep doing it. It's incredible.

Or they are very mistaken or they just want to open a gap to keep using their valuable scripts and all the rts cheat that being 24/7 online implies.

That's just bullshit. Being online 24/7 does not imply using scripts. I have never used scripts in long games, at freeciv.fi nor at longturn.org.

ifaesfu wrote:

They have been ignoring a rule of longturn games since it's so easy to break it, till spoil this game for the rest.

Not ignoring. That rule is unclear and it can be interpret to be just a suggestion. I thought it was, since other LT veterans were doing it, too.

]]>http://forum.longturn.org/profile.php?id=592012-05-07T12:39:46Zhttp://forum.longturn.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1235#p1235I think most of the players who want the games 24/7 online are giving vague excuses. All they claim can be summed up in being more comfortable because they need to play while doing the iron, the washing up, etc... They think this "comfortable issue" is more important than changing the basis of the nature of the game, which it's not other than being a turn based game which tries that someone who can only play 15 minutes a day has got similar chances to win the game compared to someone who can play all day long. Or they are very mistaken or they just want to open a gap to keep using their valuable scripts and all the rts cheat that being 24/7 online implies.

They have been ignoring a rule of longturn games since it's so easy to break it, till spoil this game for the rest.Now they want to get into a Catholic church to start preaching Buddhism.

I haven't voted this poll as I thought it was for lt30 and, since this game is mostly being playing now by players who are online 24/7, I thought they have made their bed, now they must lie on it.

I repeat: If admins are so kind to apply a general poll that passed, a second poll would have to be done to split the games. I see no point in playing this game with people online 24/7.

]]>http://forum.longturn.org/profile.php?id=252012-05-07T10:57:18Zhttp://forum.longturn.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1233#p1233Unknown qoute: "With the risk of being offensive... requiring that people are offline and don't interfere with each others moves in a game that essentially is an RTS (and freeciv as we use it for longturn IS an RTS as it is fundamentally architectured) feels as natural that a man and a woman are required to have sex with each other only when one of them is asleep. (Yes, I'm serious)."

For heavens sake boys, if we restrict this game to 1 hour a day, give this noty boy an hour more, so he can apply his work properly. Seriously, you are giving him achievement-pressure. What are you all thinking?

I've played a bit on the warservers. I enjoyed it, but I don't have many days that I can sit online for ~6h playing Civ, so instead I decided to play longturn instead of warserver. I've played for 5 years now, and the only games where it has turned into 'everybody sitting online' have involved Duncan, and generally they have been much less fun than other games. Such games are not the 'norm' which is why so many people are raising this as an issue (that you keep choosing to ignore). I fully support akfaew when he says a rule like this will not be implemented, as it goes against the nature of longturn as it has developed over the past few years.

I don't play this game 6h+ day. This is not about that. Keeping the client open doesn't mean you play that much.

det0r wrote:

As akfaew said, there is no point making the rule set here identical to freeciv.fi - and I'm fairly sure most people will continue to play with his iron-fisted approach of not implementing this poll even if it wins. You are more than welcome to create servers with your own ruleset on freeciv.fi and keep playing there, we are not forcing you to only play LT, but if you stay, then you will have to play actual LT.

No need to tell me we can play our own games somewhere else, but each time this has been discussed I have been told to make a poll if I wanted things to change here, so I made one.

I wouldn't want international "longturn" community to split because of this kind of thing, but it seems, since we were better in LT30 there is quite a lot of bad feelings directed to us now. It shouldn't be like that. Games are just games and we have done nothing really differently than you "veterans" did against us in the first place.

It wasn't only us from freeciv.fi keeping the client open in LT30 nor was it us implementing those scripts you talk (that btw have been traditionally illegal in Freeciv.fi), especially with the new Freeciv 2.3.0 that has a lot of issues dealing with not keeping the client open (for example blocking the game each time new connection is made etc).

]]>http://forum.longturn.org/profile.php?id=592012-05-07T08:04:58Zhttp://forum.longturn.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1225#p1225I've played a bit on the warservers. I enjoyed it, but I don't have many days that I can sit online for ~6h playing Civ, so instead I decided to play longturn instead of warserver. I've played for 5 years now, and the only games where it has turned into 'everybody sitting online' have involved Duncan, and generally they have been much less fun than other games. Such games are not the 'norm' which is why so many people are raising this as an issue (that you keep choosing to ignore). I fully support akfaew when he says a rule like this will not be implemented, as it goes against the nature of longturn as it has developed over the past few years.

As akfaew said, there is no point making the rule set here identical to freeciv.fi - and I'm fairly sure most people will continue to play with his iron-fisted approach of not implementing this poll even if it wins. You are more than welcome to create servers with your own ruleset on freeciv.fi and keep playing there, we are not forcing you to only play LT, but if you stay, then you will have to play actual LT.

Edit: I voted, but was disturbed by the fact the poll actually appeared to refer to the LT30 game. After consulting jhh who placed the poll, it turned out he was considering the appropriate place for the poll to be in 'General' but that there is a bug that prevents him to create a 'General' poll. So, this poll is a general rule-change poll, not a poll aimed at changing the rules just for one specific game.

Yes, I intended to place it in general, but since I couldn't, I thought its better to be in LT30 than not exists at all. I wanted to learn what was the real opinion of players.

I do think too, actually, that these kind of rules should be per game, not generic, especially if there is a poll that passes. If it's a generic rule, shouldn't it affect all games? Also the problem with this rule is that it isn't clear and as such some players interpret it wrongly. Also is it "common" if most players vote 'for' to this poll?

I withheld, just because I don't agree with this. I mean, we can't change a general rule IN-game, even if 99% of players agree. It is unfair for the last 1%.But I agree that this "rule" should be abolished for next games.

Should the fact that LT30 is currently ongoing prevent a rule change that improves the rules for future games? Feels like an opportunity for an improvement is lost solely due to a mere technicality. If this vote pass, it should be reasonable that LT30 is excempt from the rule amendment suggested. Administrators thoughts on this technicality would be much appreciated.

Formally, I have not yet voted (current matters IRL has required me to spend quite little time on longturn and/or associated forums/chat), but as Kryon and Marduk discusses, it is possible to implement server enforced limits on how long players are allowed to be online, and the limit can be set by the use of votes. Also, this limit can be configured individually for the game servers (including the option, if players so desire, to configure that there is NO time limit). This is worth keeping in mind if resources come available to allow for multiple non-experimental servers running in parallel.

Given that, I think it's safe to say the rule no longer need to be part of Longturn rules, as it will be automatically enforced to the extent necessary by each individual server.

/IllvilJa

Edit: I voted, but was disturbed by the fact the poll actually appeared to refer to the LT30 game. After consulting jhh who placed the poll, it turned out he was considering the appropriate place for the poll to be in 'General' but that there is a bug that prevents him to create a 'General' poll. So, this poll is a general rule-change poll, not a poll aimed at changing the rules just for one specific game.

I am OK if this poll doesn't pass, but I am not OK if it passes but isn't applied.

I withheld, just because I don't agree with this. I mean, we can't change a general rule IN-game, even if 99% of players agree. It is unfair for the last 1%.But I agree that this "rule" should be abolished for next games.

I am OK if this poll doesn't pass, but I am not OK if it passes but isn't applied.

If a poll to legitimize what has happened in lt30 passed, another poll would have to be done to split the games between those who want to play rts mode and those who don't. We have been able to see in this game how it's used the 24/7 style of play. It's mostly used to cheat with all kind of scripts besides turning a turn based game into a rts one. If it wasn't important enough, players who can be logged in all day and near the screen get an unfair advantage over the rest.

Obviously this poll will not be applied. Longturn is for people with just a fiew minutes each day. Longturn is not freeciv.fi, so don't try to make the rules the same.

It's too bad some people won't even try to obey common courtesy rules, and instead need hard punishments or code restrictions.

Finally, some sense!

]]>http://forum.longturn.org/profile.php?id=672012-05-06T08:17:36Zhttp://forum.longturn.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1203#p1203Obviously this poll will not be applied. Longturn is for people with just a fiew minutes each day. Longturn is not freeciv.fi, so don't try to make the rules the same.

It's too bad some people won't even try to obey common courtesy rules, and instead need hard punishments or code restrictions.

I think this poll is unclear. Does it mean to remove the phrase "it is common courtesy to", making it a rule rather than a suggestion; or to remove the entire rule, letting people stay logged in without consequence?

I intended it as 'for' to remove the section 8 and (for now -- until another poll) allow staying online 24/7, because it's unclear rule and as such can be interpreted to be just a suggestion and not a strict rule.

IMO changing/adding new rule should be another poll since that's different case and changes more.

Robodave wrote:

Personally I support an enforced login time limit, but I'm not sure whether this poll is for or against that.