Wednesday, December 06, 2006

BCS voters are now attempting to explain why they jumped Florida ahead of Michigan in their final ballot, including folks such as Harris Poll voter Jim Walden who was the only poll voter in America to have Florida #1, ahead of undefeated Ohio State. The former Iowa State coach said in the Des Moines Register that his stomach churned when he voted Sunday to place Florida at the top of his Harris Poll ballot — but felt he had no choice due to the strength of their schedule. He then further instilled confidence in the system with this comment:

“I have always thought the SEC was the whiniest bunch, who are under the mistaken belief that they have invented football and I have never met Urban Henry,” said Walden in the Register article, mistakenly confusing Florida coach Urban Meyer for a Lombardi-era Green Bay Packer defensive lineman. “I have been drinking a lot of Alka-Seltzer today.”

Uh...yeah. These are exactly the sort of folks who should be deciding college football's champion.

Other possible explanations for the crazy voting, especially in the Harris Poll, include...

Thats funny stuff but maybe Coach Carr should have cried a little harder for his own team....or maybe he was just scared to play ohio state again. 2 losses to osu in one season would be a bit much dont you think?

I'm unbiased and like neither Michigan or Florida but I mean when a question was asked Meyer stood up and answer the question.

Carr just kind of rode the fence and asked for forgiveness.

Your gonna fault a man for answering questions that he was asked bluntly and to the point? Makes no sence. Your calling someone a whiner for stepping up and saying what he believes? I know your all full of sour grapes but seriously Urban Meyer is the more blunt honest coach and if thats what it takes to get your team to the Championship then its Darwinism baby. Survive or be killed.

I definately agree, absolutely another excellent reason for people to stop fearing the big stacks... and to stop bullying the small stacks. Today I just have time to just passing thru and I think you have a great sports related blog here! I'm definitely going to put you in my favorites! It was quite useful reading, found some good/nice stuff in here. Thanks! I have a Website site. It pretty much covers sportsbook solutionrelated stuff and more than one opportunity.Keep up the great work on your site :-

Its a beauty contest and Mich was the runner up this time. One of those ass clowns said "how can you tell those kids(Florida) that after they just won the SEC that they couldnt play for the National Championship! FUCK YOU MAN. You abviously didnt give a crap telling undefeated Auburn that in 04 who beat more top 10 teams than OU and USC combined that year. WHere is the out cry that FL played a D1AA team w. carolina? All AU fans heard was that we played the Citadel that year which everyone seems to schedule these days. What about telling Boise State that no matter how many games they win, they will never have a chance to win the NC> They are a D1 team and deserve to try and Beat OSU in round one of a playoff. This system blows.

you said after The Game it was ridiculous to talk of a rematch. Now you want another shot. It would prove nothing, other than Ohio State is the best team in the Big Ten, something we already know. Michigan's best win came against Wisconsin, a team that hasn't beaten a ranked team. The Big Ten was in a down year, as it was obvious Ohio State and Michigan were probably going to be undefeated when they met, yet each team still had 6 games left in the Big Ten.

The real reason why Michigan isn't in the title game is its very difficult to decipher who is #2. However, we already know Ohio State is better, as they proved it on the field. Florida now gets a shot. Beat Ohio State if you want to get to Glendale. If you can't, then quit complaining.

BTW, I hope you understand how hilarious it is for Ohio State fans to see Michigan fans bitch and whine about why they should have another shot. I do love the blog though, even if I don't always agree with you guys. Keep up the good work

1) Hope Zook enjoys sitting all alone in the Big 10 Coaches' cafeteria. When in Rome, Ronnie, when in Rome

2) You can't overlook the human element. The voters appear to be no more sophisticated in their logic than some bloggers on this site. You know, the ones who talked about conference champs, already having a shot, tougher schedule etc etc etc.Scary.

3) The better discussion, (i/m/h/o), is whether or not the Big 10 'needs' a conference championship tourney.

If the Big 10 has a conference championship game and it somehow cost M*chigan a title one year, UM fans would then be whining about how adding the extra game is unfair. Plus, most of the coaches in the conferences that have title games hate them.

Besides, we had a conference title game: It was the 3rd weekend of November, and M*chigan lost it.

Titleix, I really don't think Zook will give a damn and honestly wouldn't be shocked if he had more Big10 coaches sitting with him as opposed to Lloyd. I would imagine there are a few Big10 coaches getting a chuckle out of seeing Lloyd not being able to pull the strings that he normally does within the conferences.

Besides, support within your own conference isn't necessarily a strong point within the Big10 - hence PSU getting boned in 9

Its not so much about wanting a rematch as it is about not believing Florida is getting the shot. Most of us were accepting of USC going until they laid an egg.

As a Michigan fan, I never wanted a rematch, but I wanted to see the two best teams in the country in the championship game. Maybe that means Florida. Who knows? I dont think so. Maybe I'll be proven wrong.

I would have liked to see what the pollsters would have done if Florida lost to Ark. Then we have Boise state jump us?

Did anybody else see the BCS voter talking to Reece Davis on ESPN, talking about how Florida's only lose was this year was to a quality LSU team. WTF!?!?!? I about puked. Thank god Reece corrected him. Maybe it was just a slip of the tough. But seriously...... Do these guys get paid to be voters?? I hope to god that this guy and the one from this article are exceptions to the typical BCS voter.

For the most part, I have stayed out of this conversation. It is what it is.

1) I am a Michigan fan2) I did not want to see a rematch unless both USC & Florida lost3) 1997 taught me that anytime you need to rely on someone else (example: other teams, other coaches, media talking heads, or random harris poll voters) to give you a shot - be prepared for an unpleasant outcome.

Today it is perfectly OK to bitch about:1) the flawed BCS system2) the human engineering and unsavory politics that are part of this flawed system3) any coach that campaigns that his ONE LOSS team is better than another ONE LOSS team with nothing more than emotion and a convenient platform (CBS)4) fans from one side (or the other) making boisterous claims that one team (or conference) is better than another with nothing other than biased emotion

Though I believe Michigan is better than Florida, the Gators have a very legitimate claim to the BCS championship game. What bothers me most is this piece of crap system that leads to so much manipulation, hypocrisy, and weasely behavior (looking at you, Urban.)

The anti-rematch votes….”Jerry Palm, an independent BCS analyst, estimates that 40 of the 113 [35%] voters in the Harris poll and 25 of the 62 [40%] in the USA Today coaches' poll moved the Gators past the Wolverines.”

USC annihilates ND [ranked higher than Arkansas at end of year and at game time] and gets 47 more points from the coaches from week 13 to 14. Michigan sitting idle between week 13 and 14 gained 17 points. Michigan had jumped to #2 in the coaches’ poll when USC [after occupying the #2 slot from week 3 through 9] lost to OSU and Michigan received a total of 46 more points from the coaches… BUT Florida beats the Razorbacks by 10 in an error filled game and gets 65 more points from the coaches without Michigan losing [and or winning].

After a game against Arkansas, whose best player is hurt in the 1st quarter, who picked off Chris leak twice [once on a bonehead shovel pass by a lineman for a TD], and then gave away the game when Fish tried the over the shoulder catch of a punt in his 4 yard line with 5 guys bearing down on him that he muffed and turned into a Gator TD AFTER MYER WASTES HIS LAST TIME OUT OF THE ENTIRE GAME AT 3:48 of the 3RD QUARTER SO HE CAN DECIDE TO FREAKIN’ PUNT ON 4TH AND INCHES, a game where Razorbacks had more first downs [18-17], and the Gators more penalties [8 for 67 vs 5-25].… this EXCELLENT performance clearly and unequivocally made 25 coaches “see the light” and move Florida ahead of Michigan. BULL BLEEPING SHIT. These 40% of the coaches just hoped that USC would do their job for them and win out.

These jokers moved them 2 spots to avoid the rematch. Florida’s performance was anything but inspiring.

I'm listening to him on the Dan Patrick show right now. He sounds like someone just kicked his best hunting dog. He avoids every question asked of him. He beats around the bush.

If you ask me he's as big a whiner as Meyer. He's playing the pitty card.

"Oh I'm Llyoyd Carr, I'm so ethical in representing Michigan that I can't make up my mind on shit. The only reason I agree to do these interviews is to have a pity party for Michigan and our dilema and let everyone know about it."

He also said he didn't like the comments Meyer made about "Michigan had their shot".

Man seriously, to intelligent people that listen to these coaches with an unbiased ear It's easy to see that Meyer is comming out the winner by answering questions honestly and to the point and not hop and skipping around questions.

Seriously, call them like you see them please take your Michigan bias out and listen to both of them. Meyer is going to bat for his team while Carr is trying to get a pity party. Plain and simple.

Well, for me, it's not so much "what" he said, as much as it was that he said anything at all. If Florida's statistics and record spoke for themselves, than why didn't he let them? But if you want to get into specifics, I didn't care for his "threats" to call for a meeting of university heads to discuss instituting a playoff system immediately were a UM/OSU rematch to happen.

Umm...Florida fans, did you even read any of the post or clicked on the link? Walden blasted the SEC and didn't know the name of your coach! Plus he voted UF over tOSU, which even the most biased Florida fan have to admit is BS. It's voters like Walden that makes a sport that we all love a joke. He should not be voting in the Harris poll.

A couple of very nice posts. Agree with the first one 100%. But, can we stop calling it "politics" when people simply don't want to see a rematch? I don't really think there's anything political about not wanting to watch a game that's already been played, when there is another team with just as much right to the game sitting in the dark.

Either team had a legitimate claim to play in the NC. I take offense to people claiming the SEC is the toughest conference, they play the best football and have the best players. Big10, Pac10, Big12, ACC, and SEC are elite conferences. Sometimes a conference has a clear down year -- ACC - but there are still 4 other conferences playing great football. No one out there is challenging the "SEC is the toughest" assertion. So I will. Let's consider the top teams in each league this year.

The SEC has 6 top teams this year: Auburn, LSU, UF, UT, UG, Arkansas.

The Big10 has 4: OSU, UM, UW, PSU

The Big12 has 5: Nebraska, Mizzou, Texas, Oklahoma, Texas A&M.

Pac 10 has 3: USC, Cal, and Oregon State (UCLA and Oregon don't have the overall records to be a "top" team, though both have big wins)

So the SEC has more than others - this makes them the toughest right? Maybe not. There's been a lot made of the best "out of conference" or "opponents wins" stats showing the SEC to be on top. But take a look at the conferences and their signature out of conference wins. Each conference beats up the poor teams from another conference, so those don't count. I'm talking about a win over one of the top teams from another conference. That's the best measure of how strong your conference is. Note: you have to count ND as a top team. It played 4 games in Big 10, 3 in Pac 10 and 2 in ACC.

The SEC has multiple wins against the Pac10 but they're all against the bottom teams. The SEC bottom teams got beat up by out of conference teams, too. And let's not forget the Georgia 1 pt win over 2-9 Colorado.

Need more?

SEC vs. Big10 bowl record for the past 4 years:Big10 leads 8-3. That's not even close SEC folks!

Since the BCS inception here's the conference breakdown of BCS bids.

Big10: 15SEC: 13Big12: 12Pac10: 11Big East: 9

And how do the best teams from each conference do against each other in BCS Bowls:

"well we have the best players in the SEC" Really? How 'bout this -Terry Bowden ranked the conferences based on last year's draft assigning points to each draft round, with more points going to 1st round draft picks. Here's his breakdown:

Subjectively, If you watched the SEC championship game it would be hard to argue that the conference plays the best football. It was circus football full of gimmick plays. A team runs double reverse or flea flicker - end-around-running-back pass once in a game to bring a cheating defense back into line or when they are desperate...but to call those plays all game long, and try multiple QB option plays that the QB hasn't done all year is just bad gimmick football. That was a poor display of football and coaching for my money. I’m not saying the SEC is a bad conference, I just don't think you can unilaterally say it's the best in the country. Say it enough everywhere and people will start believing it...so I'm starting with the SEC isn't any better or tougher than the other conference in the country. Pass it on.

Michigan needs to destroy USC before opening their mouths to complain about anything.They need to flatten Booty on his ass and give Pete Carroll the shits by half time. If they only squeak by USC who was just beaten by an unranked team UCLA, the Wolverines will be laughed at for whinning about wanting the OSU rematch. We need to beat USC by at least a score like 45-17.

We can whine and cry about Meyer whining and crying, but it will do no one any good at all. Florida is going to the MNC game because a bunch of voters changed their minds, not because they are the better team. Noone knows who's better until they meet on the field.

the only thing we know for sure is that tOSU is 3 points better than Michigan. Is tOSU better than Florida, we'll find out for sure. Is Florida better than Michigan? We'll never know because they will not meet on the field. This will remain the case regardless of who wins in Glendale.

Andy, re: your 9:48 post, what Florida did in the last week week to make poepl think they were better than Michigan. I pose a couple of possibilities.

First, the fact that Michigan did nothing during that week to continue proviing they deserve the #3 BCS ranking they had. Not their fault, but they didn't have another chance to show theit stuff.

Second, Florida beat Arkansas on a neutral field the day before voting.

Teams move all the time in ranking whether they play or not. The pre-Bowl poll is not final until all the regular season games are played. It's dynamic. A team with a "bye" week or a season has ended runs the risk that someone may impress the voters.

Imagine a beauty contest - Girl A and Girl B go through their talent routines and they're both wearing lose fitting dresses so you can't really see how big their breasts are (sorry Titleix, this was the first analogy that came to mind). Well, when it comes time for the bathing suit portion of the contest, Girl A wears a loose fitting 1950's style bathing suit for tradition and throwback era memories. She still looks great, damned great, but you just can't compare the total package to Girl B. Girl B gets up there after Girl A in a one-piece and you can finally see she's well endowed. Sure, Girl A had a helluva good song and dance and she sure was pretty in her throwback era bathing suit, but the last memory of the contest you have is of Girl B. We don't know if her 'endowment' is fake or not or if she even looks better than whatever Girl A has under her bathing suit, we just know it looks good in that bathing suit she picked.

I thought you guys might want to see this. She's a friend of mine and used to give me a load of crap about living in Michigan. She's from Dayton and went to undergrad at University of Findlay and then Graduate school at tOSU. Nice girl and very pretty. Just way too opinionated on tOSU-Michigan even when she hasn't been drinking.

Andy:My point was that since the AP is not in the BCS system it would not matter where they voted Michigan. If they thought UM was #2 (or even #1), it wouldn't change the bowl match-ups. They could keep UM #2 and wait until after the bowl games to see who is #1,#2, #3, etc...

For the record, I don't know who is #2. Both teams are good. And since OSU already beat UM, it should be Florida's turn.

Maybe Michigan should have dropped after their loss?

And by the way, the system sucks. Let's settle it on the field from now on.

To those of you who don't understand what "issues" we have with Urban Meyer ...

Most UF fans (and perhaps many other people, as well) believe it is perfectly fine for him to campaign for his team. I disagree. So do a number of other Michigan fans and other "old school" football fans. Lloyd Carr chose to take what he believes was the high road. He believes in humility (a sort of forgotten word in US sports these days), not bashing (perhaps that's too strong a word) other teams, and clearly not campaigning for votes.

I actually like what Lloyd Carr did. If he had campaigned, perhaps Michigan might have ended up playing OSU again. But I respect what he did and therefore respect the results. I'm disappointed, sure, but shit happens.

Why wasn't there a huge outcry like this one when USC jumped Michigan 2 weeks prior?

Is it because USC was believed to be so much better and more deserving than both FL and Mich? Well that idea dissolved quickly after UCLA won.

So voters, coaches, computers, everybody who had a say in the system had to decide between #3 and #4, who would be the new #2. The difference between 3 and 4 is irrelevant. Having Florida at 3 and Michigan at before Saturday meant nothing, it had no effect on the title game because neoither were in it ahead of the other.

But when asked to reevaluate the teams and affirmatively decide who should be in the title game, they picked Florida.

Why?

Merit. Florida played a much harder schedule, won it's conference championship with everything on the line, had a better record.

Whoever keeps shouting "8-3 vs the SEC the past 4 years bitches" is wrong. I've seen that number numerous times the past few days on multiple blogs and have a gut feeling the original poster was a troll trying to bait.

Big Ten is 6-5 vs the SEC the past 4 years, conveniently leaving out the 2001 0-3 season. The choice of year can make a difference. However, if we consider the BCS the modern era, the Big 10 is 11-10 against the SEC since the BCS was adopted. It is a push.

to clear things up, it would have been just as much a travesty if USC had not lost to UCLA and gone to the title game. Except, both Michigan and Florida would've been screwed.

This system will never work the way it is, someone will always be screwed. Penn State in 1995, Michigan and Nebraska in 97, Miami, USC, Auburn. This is not exclusive or exhaustive, just the victims of the top of my head.

A playoff will not make it perfect either, but at least these types of things would be decided on the field.

I'm not a fan of either school, love the blog, however I'm not sure what UM fans are complaining so much about. USC was already ahead of them, they weren't going to even play OU again, and most of the UM bloggers agreed this was right.

Nothing has changed between now and then except USC lost, UF won against another ranked team, and UF will be playing OSU instead of USC -- UM was never going to play them again.

I understand the UM fans are mad, but how can you unbiasely say that UF did not play a harder schedule? They did. And you know what? These polls you are complaining about are the same polls that put OSU at #1. Who has OSU beat? UM and a very mediocre Texas team breaking in a new QB? So whose to say OSU is REALLY that good? UM lost, how hard is that to understand, and another conference might have the better teams this year -- regardless if it is the SEC, Pac-10, ACC -- so why not let one of their better teams play OSU?

I just find UM's response to this situation very hypocritical, because we all know fans would be outraged had two SEC teams, that had already played and one beat the other, got into the national championship when both teams had fairly weak schedules, and a UM team that lost only one game all year, but played multiple top 25 teams and had a very hard schedule, was left out.

I don't have as much problem with Florida going - one team was going to get screwed - in as much as I have a problem with Urb's constant campaigning and saying shit like he wouldn't recognize Michigan at the NC if they went and beat OSU.

Play up your own squad all you want. But don't bash another school. Makes you look bush.

In addition, before they played ND (after M stayed #2 following OSU game), when asked the same sort of questions, Pete Carroll wasn't begging for a spot in the NC game, he was only talking about his team, not trashing others.

Yost,i've been busy most of the day, and just now really had time to read this string. you know what finally struck me about most of these and yesterday's commenters (aside from the usual dumbass cowardly tosu anons)?

it's the suggestion that some how michigan fans are out of line for being pissed about this.

we spent a month at #2, and then two weeks in at least one of the polls @ #2 after the loss to tosu. and then we get passed over by a team that's been behind for months. we weren't supposed to be pissed about that?

who the hell wouldn't be ticked off? like it's unrealistic for us to have thought we were still #2? that bitching about the system that flopped us is somehow wrong or misguided?

flippin Urban demanded an immediate revision to the system if FLA got passed over- that wasn't over the top? hell, he's still calling for a playoff. but michigan fans complaining about the same thing is useless whining? like some congressman from fla wouldn't have demanded hearing on the bcs by now if FLA had gotten left out?

besides, 3/4 of the sportswriters in america, even the ones who pushed for FLA, are saying the same things most michigan fans are saying- it's a flawed system, one team was going to get screwed, and we're that team.

the few commenters that have just argued that FLA should have gone may be wrong, but it's an arguable point.

but the ones who are telling us that we shouldn't complain, or that we're whiners because we don't like the outcome? what a bunch of idiots.

BTW- dumbass tosu anon- ken gorden of the dispatch called tre$$el's ploy w/ the ballots "slick" too. you may want to pull own your thesaurus of dirty words & write a nasty letter to the editor, too.

Yost - I can understand and certainly respect your opinion about you considering Urban's tactics to be "bush".

I never saw you attribute his types of tactics to the SEC as a whole, but to those that do, here's Urban's resume. Perhaps his attitude, behavoir, and "bush" tactics originated or were influenced a little further north and perhaps west of SEC land.

your example using a beauty contest is perfect... because that is all this current system is. No substance. All opinion. Hopelessly flawed.

I am not crying that Michigan should be there and Florida should not. Florida has a great team and super season. They deserve a shot. I just think the way that it went down is bad for the integrity of the game.

1. Andy - your post at 8:08 am this morning is my candidate for Post of the Year. Well thought-out and level headed. Great Job

2. Titleix - you think Zook should have voted the Big Ten slate but then comment about how pollsters show lack of logic in their picks - kinda contradicts one another no?

3. I got no #3 cause Andy perfectly summed up my thoughts earlier.

I've never rooted for Michigan except for a few times against Notre Dame but I hope you guys kick USC's ass. (just don't lobby for a split championship if you do and OSU loses a close one to Florida :) )

Zook is in the Big Ten. He (in theory) should have a clear understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of the teams in that conference. A sophisticated and complex understanding, even. One that might lead you to vote what you know.

But, to vote Florida #2, because as he said, "I thought you were supposed to vote the way you feel. One vote wasn't going to make the difference." Is pretty darn illogical, and I for one would act in accordance with adolescent-girl-rules and leave his ass sitting by himself at the lunch table.... ;-)

TitleIXyou hit on a point early today i thought was interesting- big ten conf play off. if we ever land a 12th team, we'll need one. however, that'll bring up numerous problems w/ conference schedule-

for example, if we were in the same divisin so we would play tosu every year, one or the other would always miss the conf game. if we were in a different division, we might not play each other unless we both won our divisions. and if we played each other each year, but were in different divisions, we could have a rematch every time both teams won their division.

not really on the point of the original post, but it did get me to thinking...

Is Arrington leaving the team as rumored? I can't see him staying much longer after the fiasco he created at the OSU game, end of first quarter. How fair is it to the rest of the team if he costs us another game. He had the Buckeye defense so enraged with that shoving match they stuffed us cold. Then once they got the ball back 4 play touchdown drive 90+ yrds. capped with the Ginn 39 yrd. bomb game over. Arrington must go.

SIC,ABout conf championships, division, who would play who, etc. The SEC (and I think the ACC is like this as well) has 2 divisions, but each team keeps 1 or 2 permanent (I think 2) opponents from the other division and rotate 1 in of the other 4 in the other division on home/home rotations every 2 years. This way, some of the traditional rivalries were maintained. So tOSU and Michigan could be in opposite divisions and still play each other every year. Yes, sometimes it would be a preview of the Big Ten CG.

Oldwestside - I stand corrected in my earlier post. The B10 is 6-5 v. SEC in bowl games in the last 4 years, and you're correct going back 5 years the SEC held an 8-5 advantage. If you go back to 1998 (BCS established) then B10 has 11-10 advantage over SEC...but either way it's a push which precisely illustrates my point from the earlier post.

Everyone, including Urban Myth needs to quit hyping the SEC as the toughest conference in the country. It's not. Period. I'm not advocating the B10 is the toughest I'm just saying it's no worse, nor is the pac10 or Big12.

Carr is starting to make an absolute fool of himself.He blames not being in the title game on Tressel for not voting, on Urban for lobbying. You know the one person I have yet to hear him blame? LLOYD CARR.Hey Coach Carr, it is Jim Tressels fault we didn't make the title game because once again he outcoached you ! now shut up already, i am starting to cringe every time i hear you speak.

If my team (Oklahoma) was in the same situation and Stoops acted like Carr about everything. I personally would be pissed. Carr has had every chance to talk about how good he (the head coach of the damn team) thinks his team is. Everytime he's been neutral leaving it up to the media to talk about it. Carr is making a fool of himself like the guy before me said. He is not standing up for the University of Michigan, claiming the ethics card which in this case is absolutley ridiclious.

Mich: [Sigh] And what do you want? I'm sure you're here to gloat, so just go ahead.

OSU: Hey, hey, its not like that. I heard about what the Harris did to you and I just wanted to check up and see how you were doing.

Mich: [Sniff] Not good. You know, after our little spat in November Harris and his friends were so nice to me. They kept me at #2 in the polls, told me I could still be a champion, then WHAM dumped me for USC.

OSU: Yeah, I know how finicky they can be sometimes. They fell for those beach bums and their speedy receivers.

Mich: Yeah, and now that that didn't work out for them, they passed us up for Florida?!?!

OSU: I never could figure out what they saw in Urban. I guess some pollsters just like that bad boy image. But don't worry, some day someone is going to like you for the bright, sophisticated, University you are.

Mich: [Sniff] Do you really think so?

OSU: Oh yeah. Right now the pollsters are all about winning games on the field and conference champions, but soon enough they're going to be jobbing other schools for you, just you wait.

Mich: I guess you're right. Just the other day someone said I could preseason #1 next year. Do you think that's possible?

Glad to see MZone believes in free speech here (heavy sarcasm). Don't wanna actually deal with facts here do we Yost? Here is it again.

Tuesday, December 05, 2006

Cry me a river for the Michigan Wolverines. Send me the time and place for their pity party and I'll be there in tux and tails -- all black in honor of their state of mourning. Let's all kick and scream and threaten to secede from the Union or the BCS because the Wolverines were snubbed.

But the Wolverines really had a simple way to avoid this feeding frenzy. It was so easy and simple that I can't believe Lloyd Carr never thought of it.

Lloyd, listen, do you want to know a secret? Do you promise not to tell, woh, woh, woh? Let me whisper in your ear.

Go undefeated and try winning your own league!

That's all and you bury the Urban Legend that you don't deserve a shot at the national title.

But you blew it. You lost a game at Ohio State and you can bury your tears during the Tournament of Roses Parade in Pasadena.

I don't like the BCS any more than the next guy. However, you have to admit the last weekend of college football was about as riveting as anything we've seen in a long time. And Sunday was a nailbiter of epic proportions. It was like staying up late in 2000 watching the results of Bush-Gore. First, (ironically), the networks called Florida for Gore. Then, for Bush. Then, they didn't know any longer.

Most woke up Sunday thinking it was Michigan and then the pendulum shifted toward Florida. Then, you really didn't have a clue so you were glued to the tube. It was like the final night of American Idol.

Michigan is a very good football team. One of the best in the land. Yet it barely beat Ball State and it played in the backward Big Ten Conference.

Some Big Ten zealots say Michigan would have gone undefeated in the SEC. Think again. Try a few road trips like the Swamp or Auburn, Deaf Valley or Fayetteville or Knoxville. Little tougher than Purdue and Northwestern.

I don't have anything against Michigan. Sure, Carr is about as cantankerous as any person I've ever interviewed in college football. You could catch a cold sitting next to this guy.

But this isn't personal. The Wolverines felt they earned the spot because they beat Notre Dame. Florida beat Tennessee, LSU and Arkansas.

After a grueling schedule, which included a season ender against rival FSU (on the road), it had to beat Arkansas in its 13th game of the season. Meanwhile, UM was at home, chomping on popcorn.

Michigan claims it only lost to Ohio State. Yes, but it didn't have to contend with a play-in game like Florida. Oh, I'm sorry, that didn't happen because the antediluvian Big Ten doesn't have a championship game. Not my problem that they're stuck in the '50s up there in the Rust Belt.

Some credit Mike Slive for turning the tide in favor of the Gators. Who knows? But can you imagine the angst in college football if the SEC was denied BCS entrance two of the last three years?

Auburn deserved sympathy two years ago. It went undefeated. It was simply dominating. Florida isn't in the league of the 2004 Auburn team. The loss at Auburn hurt Florida in October but the Gators bounced back.

The bottom line is this: The Wolverines could have ended this sniveling debate by knocking off Ohio State. But you see, Carr can't beat Jim Tressel. Mr. Sweater Vest continues to abuse Carr like a rented mule. If that explanation doesn't compute, look up Tommy Tuberville vs. Mike Shula in the dictionary.

At the end of the day, the Gators may regret this elevation because now -- after the celebrating is done -- they will have to play the best team in the land.

Regardless of the outcome, they deserved the shot. They won the best league in football. Michigan didn't even win its own conference. So, Wolverine fans, quit the crying game. Jump on the jumbo jet and head out to California, where you likely will get spanked again, this time in the Rose Bowl by USC.

I don't really care, though. I'll be watching the bowl game that matters -- Florida vs. Ohio State in the national championship game. The system may continue to be flawed. But this year, they got the two best teams for the right reasons, playing for all the marbles.

"Don't wanna actually deal with facts here do we Yost?" - I don't believe that there were any accurate facts in your post, more like total speculation. Want an example? Funny how you left Wisconsin off the list of Michigan victories. Don't think Wisconsin is good? Too bad, they are the #7 team in the country. That is a fact.

"They won the best league in football." - I guess you have not heard of a little league they have going... I think its called the NFL. They might be better.

"I don't really care, though." - Yes, because its very common to write 3 page essays on things you don't really care about. It's okay, you care, you care a lot.

I must say it's pretty classless to see the amount of Florida and SEC fans who feel it necessary to rub salt in wounds on Michigan fan blogs, sites and bb's. Had the Gators finished 3rd you know every Fla blog would be declaring war on the BCS right now. Hell, the Fla faithful already had a few weeks of whining going into all this mess, and you just know it would have turned into a riot had things gone the other way. Urban Meyer was ready to protest if Michigan beat OSU the second time around.

The most pathetic thing for Florida fans who taunt the fans here is that most UM fans are expressing the conclusion that the BCS system sucks and needs to be replaced... a sentiment shared by the Gator head coach and school president. So good job there. Instead of offering support to help take down the shitty system that put us here your fellow fans have instead made a hatred of UF come out of nowhere.

So Yost deleted your comment. Good. Think for one minute how you would feel if you operated a blog and hundreds of classless fans came by just to rub it in your face.

I'm just going to leave it at this Paul, if you don't agree with what Michigan fans are saying, or are tired of what they are saying then don't go to Michigan blogs and read them, no one is forcing you, so just don't do it!

UM had a wider margin of victory over their one common opponent, Vandy.

See earlier post that SEC my no measure is a tougher conference. It's simply hyperbole that's being bentered around like fact.

Finally, the most interesting thing about the FL argument is that it's never about Florida being the second best team. Never

The arguments are always "No rematch" conveniently forgetting FL 1996 rematch, that gave it its' ONLY national championship.

It's "You have to win your conference" conveniently forgetting the BCS precedent of 2001 and 2003. (Nebraska and Oklahoma)

It's "the SEC is a tougher conference" mere conjecture when the SEC has only one win over a top 15 out of conference team, and the Pac10 has 4, while Big10 has 2.

You even tell us that it was the SEC's turn no matter what. They couldn't possibly be denied twice or the political fallout would be grave.

It's everything BUT "We clearly have the 2nd best team in the country"

NOBODY is saying FLorida is the 2nd best, not even Florida fans. They know they've squeaked by all season except when playing DIIA practice squads. Does anybody really think the SEC championship - trick play/circus football - game was an impressive win for FL (besides SEC homers)?

Tell us your team has been so impressive in the SEC and so impressive all season that it's on par with Ohio State. Tell us with a straight face that you trust your offense to get it done. Tell us you're clearly the 2nd best team in college football. You can't, and that's why UM has a legitimate gripe and that's why people at a UM blog are venting.

1201 - if you're going to try to use logic, don't stop short. UofF also beat South Carolina, SoCar's only losses came against teams ranked in the top 15 as well (I don't think quite top 11 like your claim for PSU). If you're bringing up meaningless 3rd degrees of separation, don't leave any out that don;t support your claim. Not that I agree with a lot that Paul F had to post about, but picking and choosing facts to support your opinions while ignoring comparable facts counter to your opinion is a big reason why these who's #2 arguments are getting dragged out. I concede that it does seem to only be supporters of the UofF decision that are mainly dragging this out.

Not that it makes any difference, really, but the "post" that some anon put up here was lifted verbatim from Paul Finebaum's Tuesday column in the Mobile Press Register (at least they gave Finebaum credit and didn't claim it themselves).

Paul Finebaum is also the host of an obnoxious sports talk radio show down here. It airs from 2 p.m. til 7 p.m. CST.

Here's a link to his show, if you want to blast back:http://www.al.com/finebaum/

1996 Florida-FSu game is a apples and organges different from what going on here.

Florida lost to FSU. Dropped to number 4 or so in the ranking. Beat a good Bama team for the SEC title (see..they won their conference) and moved up to number 3 (they weren't idle after their loss to FSU).

Arizona State was ranked number two heading into the bowl games, with FSU number one.

ASU lost to Ohio State in the Rose Bowl. After that loss the Sugar Bowl became the defacto national title game, since it was no. 1 vs. no. 3 and the no. 2 team had lost.

So it wasn't like Florida lsot to FSU and then was given the no. 2 position...they were number 3. Had ASU son their game Florida would not have had a national title.

But to those who say Michigan shouldn't go b/c they didn't win their conference, I'll agree with anybody who says that *IF* they can show me where it that is prereq to play for National Title ACCORDING TO CURRENT BCS RULES.

It's all about putting the top two teams on the field. Period.

We can disagree about who those teams are, but in attempting to "prove" one's side, at least keep arguments relavent to issues that matter in current set up.

Jim - I don't accuse me of being selective I've tried to lay it out fairly. In my original post I highlighted the fact that the SEC has more top rated teams in their conference than the other conferences. Paul only highlighted the top 3 teams UF beat I did likewise for UM. You're right, SoCar is a good team, and I think Purdue's record is on par. UGA has a better record but got beat by Vandy and Kentucky, and beat a 2-9 Colorado team at home so it's harder to get a bead on whether they're a good program or not. Tradition says they'll do fine in their bowl game.

That said, nothing changes in my argument that the SEC is being unduly cast as the toughest conference in football. The interconference play of top teams does not bear out SEC being the toughest nor does the head-to-head bowl records, or the BCS selections or the BCS records. Nothing in my argument changes that. NOBODY is arguing that UF is the 2nd best team in the country.

Anonymous 1:10p - it's a fair point to say that's comparing apples to oranges....that's what this whole friggen debate is, since they can't play it on the field. However, people still wanted to see that rematch of FSU and UF knowing that if ASU lost it would be for the national championship. No doubt a bit different, but it's EXACTLY why UM shouldn't have been prejudiced against because '96 UF proved that if given another shot on a neutral field maybe the outcome would be different. The "double jeopardy" argument didn't apply then, why's it applying now? Why's everyone claiming they don't want to see a rematch?

As I said before, If this were a one loss Michigan or OSU team left out in the cold because undefeated Florida was playing one Loss LSU (after LSU lost to Florida two weeks prior), you bet your house and everything else you own that UM and OSU fans would both be playing the conf champ card. Even if it weren't in the rules this year.

That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if we see the conf champ rule rightfully enacted next year or in 2008. They already ban 3 teams from one conf from playing in a BCS bowl - wouldn't be that extreme for them to add that a 2nd conf team can't play for the title.

And in my mind, they'd be doing the right thing. We have conferences for a reason and a one loss Big Ten champ should never take back seat to the 2nd place team in ANY conference.

srudoff,I agree, but there is one possible exception to your no 2nd team from the same conference idea - a situation like this year with Wisconsin and Ohio St. not playing each other.

For the sake of argument, say Wisconsin beats Michigan and winds up undefeated. They would be co-champs with OSU, undefeated, and would HAVE to go to Glendale (all other things being the same). That would be the only exception - otherwise, I like the idea.

The 1996 situation is not the same as now. Under today's rules the 1996 Gator team would not even be playing for the NC. They were ranked number three. But, because no. 2 ASU could not close the deal and Florida could, the Gators got the title.

UM had a shot and failed. Florida made the most of theirs and are playing for a national title.

If OSU and Wisconsin both went undefeated, they'd both be conf champs and thus could play each other : ). Seriously though the big ten needs to go to a system where every team plays each other if they won't go to a 12 team league with conf championship game. There's 12 games now so play the other 10 teams and then have your 2 ooc games

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