Fire (Mage) needs some cooldowns

Thinking about it and while continuously playing Fire, I've always felt like it needed at least one more cooldown. Frost has Icy Veins, Arcane has Arcane Power, but Fire just has Combustion, which feels more like an integral part of the rotation rather than an actual cooldown. You could argue PoM, but any specc can get that (and again, PoM is as much a part of the rotation as Combustion is). Hell, I actually feel like Frost and Arcane could use some more too.

So, I'd like to see what people can come up with for a new cooldown that Fire could have (or Frost/Arcane if you'd prefer to make one for those!). I've actually got a few in mind, so I'll kick it off. (I'm also using some names from previous talents that I do miss )
PS: Feel free to use variables like X and Y if you don't know what a specific number should be.

(Please note that this thread is mostly for fun, but also to share ideas of some cool cooldowns you can think of. Remember, it is NOT limited to Fire only, so feel free to make one up for the entire class, or for a specific specc)

- The penalty is more or less to keep the spell the same in both PvP and PvE, while also being a bit balanced for PvP.
- It's a small damage loss for 2-3 guaranteed criticals though, especially when setting up a Combustion and getting at LEAST one free Pyroblast at full damage out of it.
- It's not that strong of a cooldown, so I kept it at 90 seconds to let you choose if you want to use it with Combustions or to use when you're tired of seeing nothing but Fireball.

For the next 10 seconds, Ignite will calculate an additional 20% of the spell's damage. This increased Ignite can also be used for Combustions.

- Essentially for a time you want to have one gigantic Combustion.
- I was thinking of increasing the cooldown further as we don't have any offensive cooldowns past 3 minutes.
- You may be thinking it's OP in PvP, but it only lasts 10s and both it, as well as Ignite and Combustion, can be dispelled off.

For the next 10 seconds, all non-periodic spells deal 50% additional damage as a DoT that can also be spread to 3 (4 if glyphed) nearby targets via Inferno Blast at half damage. All direct damage spells deal 25% less damage, and Ignite calculates as if the spells were their normal, 100%, values.

- How the DoT works: Similarly to Ignite, if you cast a bunch of Fireballs or Scorches or whatever, FtF would stack. The difference though is it would have two categories that all the spells would fall under. All spells except Pyroblast would be labeled as "Fanning the Flames", while Pyroblast would become "Fanning the Flames (Pyroblast)" and have a slightly different (and more alarming) icon than its weaker (debatable, depending on what you cast) brother. The reason for the split is for PvP reasons and to tell healers "Hey, this Mage just cast an FtF Pyroblast on your ally. You better dispel them".

Edit: Thought of some other things, but not necessarily cooldowns

Sub-Zero
Passive
Requires Frost specialization

When used on targets permanently immune to stuns (such as most Raid Bosses), Deep Freeze will now deal X damage instead.

- The spell that started the PvE/PvP split trends.
- I think I speak for everyone when I say that no one misses Deep Freezing Raid Bosses for a bazillion damage. Don't you guys want it back?

Removes the cooldown of Arcane Barrage, subsequent Arcane Barrage casts deal X% additional damage and can stack up to 3 times, but deals 75% less damage against Players. (Glyphed version only: Casting Arcane Barrage without any stacks deals 25% less damage) Lasts until cancelled or any damaging spell except for Arcane Barrage is cast.

*- Name could use tweaking, as it would obviously require permission from Riot (To those who don't know who Xerath is: http://tinyurl.com/c36bevz)
- Works like Moonkin's Lunar Shower in the sense that when you're on the move, this is the spell to use.
- Gives Arcane Mages their much needed mobility spell when they know they can't preserve their Arcane Charges (should they need/want to).
**- This could also become a Glyph instead of a toggleable ability, seeing as how Arcane suffers from lack of good Major choices.
**-- The first hit being reduced makes the Glyph a choice. Do you want a mobile spell, or lose 25% damage on your Arcane Charged Barrages? It's impossible to get a Cleave Barrage without the penalty because the penalty is instantly back when you cast anything but Arcane Barrage. Without the penalty, this would be an instant go-to glyph for PvE Arcane (and the -75% damage against players makes it so Arcane isn't a newly OP spec in PvP).
- This is a personal point, but DAMMAT, SOMEONE NEEDS TO CONNECT WoW'S ARCANE MAGES TO LoL'S XERATH SOMEHOW BECAUSE THEY BOTH PLAY NEARLY IDENTICAL (immobile casters with Arcane spells and Arcane Barrage being awesome and pretty).

Your Fireballs gain a significant power boost, as well as a size boost, increasing it's damage by ~50% and size by 200% for the next 30 seconds or 5 Fireballs. (Whichever comes first)

*- Name could probably use a tweak.
- Cooldowns aren't just about damage, healing, or utility. They can be for fun as well. The size boost lets people actually see them. These increased Fireballs would also require a graphic or color change to make them appear different from Pyroblasts.
- This cooldown wouldn't be used for Combustion in any way, as Pyroblast would still beat it on DPET.
-- Even doubling Fireball's damage wouldn't make it Combustion-worthy.
- I originally had it at a 15s duration, but then I realized "what happens if you suddenly get lucky and got a bunch of Pyros?". I decided to double the duration and add a spell limit instead, making almost sure that you will get off all 5 Fireballs, unless you're incredibly lucky ("unlucky?") all of a sudden.
- This is meant purely to increase Fireball's DPET over the course of a fight, as it's pathetically low and a huge cause of why Fire can be the lowest spec on a fight (or the highest).
- Very unlikely to even affect PvP, since no one casts Fireball there. If this made them cast Fireball, that's what Blizzard wants, right? Us to cast more immobile spells?

[Edit] Here's our raid utility:

Mana Well
120 second (2 minute) cooldown

Creates a well filled with Mana Gems. Players in your party or raid may click the well to create a Mana Gem.
Mana Gem: Restores 10% of your maximum mana. 2 minute cooldown. 3 charges.

- Warlocks have Soul Well. Why can't we have Mana Well?
- It's not all that powerful, and you could even nerf it to restore 5% mana if it was too strong.
- There's already plenty of ways raids can restore mana. A Mage won't make or break your raid similar to how a Warlock doesn't either.

So what would you like to see? Any of these? Maybe something you came up with?

The mage looks deep within themselves to cultivate as much power as possible in order to unleash a single devastating effect

once this ability is active, the mage stores 25% damage of all Direct Damage Spells cast in order to unleash hell, but at a cost to their own well being.
Every 1sec the mage loses 10%HP and Mana in order to sustain the buff to maximum of 15 Seconds. (ie 150% total cost for the entire duration)

As with Alter time, the 'buff' can be activated a second time to prematurely end its duration and unleash all the built up energy in one single devastating cast. Once the 15 Seconds are up the mage is unable to hold onto the built up energy, the 'pool' is reduced by 5% per sec for 5 secs before automatically being released
- this Direct Dmg spell can apply ignite in the usual way making it ideal for those huge combustions.

-Should the mage not have sufficient health to sustain this buff, they will die, and death from this is permanent - ie no combat res.

My idea behind this is that its a great way to create huge combustions, but allows the mage to risk how big they want that buff to be.
Going with a 15 sec duration at 10% cost per sec means it is entirely possible for the mage to kill them selves if they arent paying attention, making it strong to use, but also very dangerous to them selves. this balances out any ideas that it would be OP in pvp, becuase the longer you 'channel' it for, the more lilely it is youll die before you get to release the deadly blast!

Making the death permanent is to create a skill cap for the ability so its not a click and forget and requires the player to actively decide when they want to release the ability without killing themselves indefinately. I figured if death normal, too many mages would just click it, build up max charge and rely on healers, then expect a BR if all failed - blaming the healers for not keeping them alive - this way all blame is down to the mage. - Having the output reduction once the buff expires also encourages the mage not to kill them selves and to use it early

Numbers of course can be changed, but ideally the total dmg sustained by the player should be greater than their max HP

Glyph of Conservation - The mage has become aware of the dangers and uses this ability more conservatively
Reduces the cool down to 4 minutes, and the duration to 10 seconds. -

the mage has decided they would rather not take the risk of dieing, but at the loss of potential damage. As a result of not channeling so much energy from them selves, the mage is able to recover, and use the ability again slightly sooner

The mage looks deep within themselves to cultivate as much power as possible in order to unleash a single devastating effect

once this ability is active, the mage stores 25% damage of all Direct Damage Spells cast in order to unleash hell, but at a cost to their own well being.
Every 1sec the mage loses 10%HP and Mana in order to sustain the buff to maximum of 15 Seconds. (ie 150% total cost for the entire duration)

As with Alter time, the 'buff' can be activated a second time to prematurely end its duration and unleash all the built up energy in one single devastating cast. Once the 15 Seconds are up the mage is unable to hold onto the built up energy, the 'pool' is reduced by 5% per sec for 5 secs before automatically being released
- this Direct Dmg spell can apply ignite in the usual way making it ideal for those huge combustions.

-Should the mage not have sufficient health to sustain this buff, they will die, and death from this is permanent - ie no combat res.

My idea behind this is that its a great way to create huge combustions, but allows the mage to risk how big they want that buff to be.
Going with a 15 sec duration at 10% cost per sec means it is entirely possible for the mage to kill them selves if they arent paying attention, making it strong to use, but also very dangerous to them selves. this balances out any ideas that it would be OP in pvp, becuase the longer you 'channel' it for, the more lilely it is youll die before you get to release the deadly blast!

Making the death permanent is to create a skill cap for the ability so its not a click and forget and requires the player to actively decide when they want to release the ability without killing themselves indefinately. I figured if death normal, too many mages would just click it, build up max charge and rely on healers, then expect a BR if all failed - blaming the healers for not keeping them alive - this way all blame is down to the mage. - Having the output reduction once the buff expires also encourages the mage not to kill them selves and to use it early

Numbers of course can be changed, but ideally the total dmg sustained by the player should be greater than their max HP

Glyph of Conservation - The mage has become aware of the dangers and uses this ability more conservatively
Reduces the cool down to 4 minutes, and the duration to 10 seconds. -

the mage has decided they would rather not take the risk of dieing, but at the loss of potential damage. As a result of not channeling so much energy from them selves, the mage is able to recover, and use the ability again slightly sooner

A slight modify for this.

When you activate the CD you deal 25% less damage for 15 seconds, but after the 15 seconds you deal 25% more damage for 15 seconds. Would be cool for building Combustions.

I also somehow feel that need. I played Frost for a while and I felt a lot more usefull to the raid. The problem with Fire will be to create a cooldown that does not benefit to combustion (otherwise it's useless because everybody will line it put with combustion what not actually is a cooldown). On Frost all cooldowns are nearly independent and can always be used when off CD

I like the frost orb a lot. Maybe something like that would be an option for Fire. Just something that does/increases your damage but doesn't contribute to ignite/combustion. I just want to push it and do more damage. Combustion can really be a pita.

I really like your Molten Fury idea. It would make our already big 3 minute PoM+AT combustion even better.
Fiery Payback would also be nice since we can get really screwed on our 1.5 minute PoM+Combustion combos if we get no crits/munching.

Fanning the Flames sounds nice but in practice I would bet it's a bit more complicated to use right, especially on single target fights.

I do agree that fire needs something beyond the 3-minute mage type of CD's but nothing super crazy as we are already in a decent spot. Either a shorter, 1.5 min CD with low power or a nice 3 min CD with a big power spike. The first two you mentioned would fill both those spots quite nicely.

Originally Posted by Lohe

If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.

I also somehow feel that need. I played Frost for a while and I felt a lot more usefull to the raid. The problem with Fire will be to create a cooldown that does not benefit to combustion (otherwise it's useless because everybody will line it put with combustion what not actually is a cooldown). On Frost all cooldowns are nearly independent and can always be used when off CD

I like the frost orb a lot. Maybe something like that would be an option for Fire. Just something that does/increases your damage but doesn't contribute to ignite/combustion. I just want to push it and do more damage. Combustion can really be a pita.

We could get Flame Orb back and make it give us a free Hot Streak I guess.

It's hard to come up with something that doesn't benefit Combustion in some way... Perhaps some cooldown that just empowers Fireball for a bit.

If you can think of something that doesn't modify ANY of those 5 things, by all means, sir (or madam), do your best

Originally Posted by Saegno

I really like your Molten Fury idea. It would make our already big 3 minute PoM+AT combustion even better.

I'm just scared for the PvP reasons why it wouldn't be initiated. It would make a SICK Combustion though.

Originally Posted by Saegno

Fiery Payback would also be nice since we can get really screwed on our 1.5 minute PoM+Combustion combos if we get no crits/munching.

That's basically what I made it for. There are moments when Combustion is up, your proccs are all good to go, and you're sitting there with a finger up your ass trying to get crits; by the time you get them, all your proccs are gone and then you waste your Combustion. This would prevent that, OR if you felt lucky, you could pop it with AT and get two guaranteed Pyroblast criticals.

Originally Posted by Saegno

Fanning the Flames sounds nice but in practice I would bet it's a bit more complicated to use right, especially on single target fights.

Not necessarily. If you have a Disc Priest or a Destruction Warlock who uses Grimoire of Sacrifice, you have an idea of how this works. Ignite stays unaffected for obvious reasons (otherwise this could end up being only a small DPS gain), while all your spells essentially gain an additional 25% damage. Rather than just adding 25% damage, I turned it into a dispellable DoT for PvP reasons. Using this in PvP would be a risky move as you lose 25% initial damage, but add 50% (of 100%, not of 75%) damage over a short duration DoT (4 seconds). If left undispelled, that damage could sting pretty bad, especially if you Combusted as well.

Another thought that comes to mind would be to turn it into a Dispel protection ability of sorts, where if someone dispelled it, they would take damage or get silenced or something.

Originally Posted by Saegno

I do agree that fire needs something beyond the 3-minute mage type of CD's but nothing super crazy as we are already in a decent spot. Either a shorter, 1.5 min CD with low power or a nice 3 min CD with a big power spike. The first two you mentioned would fill both those spots quite nicely.

Oh I never really wanted a DPS increase, I just felt like we have an easy rotation with a super-complex "cooldown" that's really just part of our rotation. Fiery Payback, for instance, isn't necessarily a DPS increase more than an RNG dropper. Hell, drop its effect completely and make it instantly give us a HU+HS and I'd be ecstatic. I don't know any other class that has a 45s (90s when glyphed) ability that deals 12-15% of their total damage, in addition to being their only real cooldown. Remember when Frost had Deep Freeze? They still had Icy Veins.

Our biggest problems atm are RNG and Crit-dependency. Cooldowns should be aimed towards those to really help us out. Granted, in times of near-perfect RNG, said cooldowns wouldn't even be a DPS increase.

I like the frost orb a lot. Maybe something like that would be an option for Fire. Just something that does/increases your damage but doesn't contribute to ignite/combustion. I just want to push it and do more damage. Combustion can really be a pita.

Yeah I think that is the key I agree that fire could do with a extra cooldown but having it increase combustion damage would make it feel part of the rotation. The trouble with this is anything that directly increases your power would just be used with combustion. Maybe if there was a rain of fire ish spell that has multiple instances of damage/doesn't add to ignite.

Firey Blaze(120 sec cd)

Your next Blizzard turns into a (something Firey) becomes an instant cast dealing X amount of damage over 20 secs

dont think it needs to be complicated just something extra to keep an eye on in terms of cooldowns

Instead of something that will boost combustion lets look at spells.that just add dmg outside of combustion

Flame orb voor.aoe.dmg.and it procs heating up but. Not insta pyro.
Or blastwave with its knockback that can do a instant flamestrike when It hits 3+ (glyphed)
Greater dragons breath that channels a breath for 5 seconds that does increasing dmg
For mobs it hits.

Could go for new 90 talents 2
Like a improved pyro with 3sec cast that can crit high but doesnt add ignite
Everytime you cast infernoblast to proc insta pyro it will make your next fireball do xx% more dmg.
Or a cd that makes your fireball 100% crit but without ignite. Making nice burst outside combustion.

Still the sad thing is that fire mages dont do much but spam fireball untill a heating up procs and the can do combustion.
Id like to have.some more spells to use!

Sometimes when I'm raiding on my fire mage all these fun trinkets and whatnot proc but my combustion is on CD, and when my combustion is off CD theres no procs i can use for a good ignite. So I came up with a fun mechanic but I have not thought it all through so it could be somewhat OP.

Snapshot
Requires Fire Specialization
Can only be used once during combat /OR/ 2.5 minute Cooldown

Snapshot capture's your current targets ignite (which is based upon buffs/procs at that particular time) and stores it as a 'memory' in your mage armor of choice. After you have used this spell, the spell itself will turn into 'Release snapshot' which will apply the captured ignite onto your current target and will knock back the target by 10 yards. If 'release snapshot' is not used within 1.5 (or 2min.. not sure) the memory will deplete and 'snapshot' will be off cooldown again and ready for use.

Spell effect: You would have some kind of fiery core flying around you, like shaman water/lightning/earth shield, which would have some kind of fire spuwing animation around it

The knock back effect was mainly put in for pvp purposes and I think it's better that when the spell is used against other players the applied ignite damage is reduced by 20% (can be changed accordingly) so it doesnt get too OP in pvp situations.

I'm sorry, but am I the only one who really doesn't like having a lot of cooldowns? Having lots of DPS CDs was the main reason why I dislike my boomkin so much in MoP since it feels like my DPS is balanced ONLY around those CDs.

If you can think of something that doesn't modify ANY of those 5 things, by all means, sir (or madam), do your best

...

You can call me god *g* just kidding.

I think Flame Orb would be pretty cool. Maybe just let it do a flat amount of damage with a one minute cooldown (actually like frost orb). But this should just contribute to ignite a little and with a one minute CD it doesn't line up very nicely with glyphed or unglyphed version of combustion. So you should use it on CD in most cases or when it's appropriate to do AoE damage.

Something like that wouldn't benefit too much on combustion and would really make the Fire Spec a lot more flexible. Currently you have very few possibility to decide when to do more or less damage, because Combustion has a very long preparation phase and the timing can become tedious.

---------- Post added 2013-05-13 at 02:34 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Terahertz

I'm sorry, but am I the only one who really doesn't like having a lot of cooldowns? Having lots of DPS CDs was the main reason why I dislike my boomkin so much in MoP since it feels like my DPS is balanced ONLY around those CDs.

Too much isn't good. But having some for situations where you need a little bit more is just fine. The Fire Mage currently actually has no real Cooldown because combustion is tied so close to your rotation you can't call it a cooldown + it's very hard to get it up the exact moment you need it.

Snapshot
Requires Fire Specialization
Can only be used once during combat /OR/ 2.5 minute Cooldown
<Snipped the rest for space reasons>

Love that unique design you got there, but hate the name

Originally Posted by Terahertz

I'm sorry, but am I the only one who really doesn't like having a lot of cooldowns? Having lots of DPS CDs was the main reason why I dislike my boomkin so much in MoP since it feels like my DPS is balanced ONLY around those CDs.

"Lots of DPS cooldowns"... We have... None.

- Mirror Image is barely a cooldown (and some of you guys are aware of my take on that already... >.>)
- Alter Time is used for Combustion with Hot Streaks
- PoM is a talent choice and is again, used for Combustion in conjunction with Alter Time
- Combustion isn't a 'cooldown', it's part of our rotation

Honestly, we don't have ANY cooldowns, so "lots" is a pretty funny word to use.

I will admit that I dislike a lot of cooldowns too, but again, we don't have any. I'm just asking for A cooldown here.

Originally Posted by reflection

You can call me god *g* just kidding.

I think Flame Orb would be pretty cool. Maybe just let it do a flat amount of damage with a one minute cooldown (actually like frost orb). But this should just contribute to ignite a little and with a one minute CD it doesn't line up very nicely with glyphed or unglyphed version of combustion. So you should use it on CD in most cases or when it's appropriate to do AoE damage.

Something like that wouldn't benefit too much on combustion and would really make the Fire Spec a lot more flexible. Currently you have very few possibility to decide when to do more or less damage, because Combustion has a very long preparation phase and the timing can become tedious.

Okay, and when things move away from Orb, the spell is instantly useless. I just really, really, disliked it. I'm not a big fan of Frozen Orb either, but at least it's cooler and gives a FoF proc.

Update: Just added "Great Balls of Fire" to the OP. It's a cooldown meant to purely boost Fireball's DPET.

Hehe thanks Yeah, I don't like the name either, but I couldn't come up with a name that would describe both the fire spec & the essence of the spell :P I guess that any fire-related name would be appropriate enough Just a few i've had in mind: ignition, raise fire, eruption, inflame.

Hehe thanks Yeah, I don't like the name either, but I couldn't come up with a name that would describe both the fire spec & the essence of the spell :P I guess that any fire-related name would be appropriate enough Just a few i've had in mind: ignition, raise fire, eruption, inflame.

To be honest, what id like to see is at least 1 good generic damage cd for mages, not tied to any specs of anything. such as

Tri-Force Mastery
Call on all three forces to empower you, increasing your Mastery, Haste and Crit by 10% for 20 seconds

A proper cd for fire would be good aswell, i just feel we dont have any decent generic cd's at the moment.

This would only be used during Alter Time Combustions for Fire though. Also, how long would the cooldown be?

Define "10% Mastery".

This would be pretty garbage for Frost btw. It's good on paper, but it wouldn't work out too well.

Something to keep in mind: Mages are NOT like Elemental Shamans who use all their forces of nature simultaneously. We study one school of magic and stick with it for most purposes while using the other two VERY lightly (e.g., Ice Barrer as non-Frost Mages, Arcane magic for non-damaging purposes such as Invocation and Blink)

Well, how about a spell that increases the fire damage done by X% or makes pyro instant or gives more crit %, but your spells no longer causes ignite and when combustion is used it puts the spell on a 20(glyphed) 10(unglyped) cooldown.

This spell in this case will not be used for combustion as you no longer create ignite, and it cant be used after combustion for crazy burst, its rather used in between for some extra damage.

This would only be used during Alter Time Combustions for Fire though. Also, how long would the cooldown be?

Define "10% Mastery".

This would be pretty garbage for Frost btw. It's good on paper, but it wouldn't work out too well.

Something to keep in mind: Mages are NOT like Elemental Shamans who use all their forces of nature simultaneously. We study one school of magic and stick with it for most purposes while using the other two VERY lightly (e.g., Ice Barrer as non-Frost Mages, Arcane magic for non-damaging purposes such as Invocation and Blink)

Maby a different name would be best, more thought needs to go into it clearly, but was just trying to think of something that is usefull to all specs. And yeah probably didnt think through the 10% mastery that well. maby it just increases them all by 3000 for 20 seconds. tbh unless the cd affects mage bombs or adds another dot its always gona be used with combustion.

Well, how about a spell that increases the fire damage done by X% or makes pyro instant or gives more crit %, but your spells no longer causes ignite and when combustion is used it puts the spell on a 20(glyphed) 10(unglyped) cooldown.

This would be imbalanced for PvP though. To make it useful in PvE, you need the X% damage to be significantly high to make up for the lack of Ignite stacking.

Originally Posted by star-nosed-mole-man

Maby a different name would be best, more thought needs to go into it clearly, but was just trying to think of something that is usefull to all specs. And yeah probably didnt think through the 10% mastery that well. maby it just increases them all by 3000 for 20 seconds. tbh unless the cd affects mage bombs or adds another dot its always gona be used with combustion.

That would be quite a weak cooldown though.

The only thing I could think of is bringing back T10 Mirror Images, where it increased your damage by 18% for 30s after using MI