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MP3s and Warez are different. MP3 is music, music defines our culture. Music affects our lives in pretty much every single aspect there is, it affects our mood, our personalities, and we form favouritisms for forms of art. I think that pretty much every artist I download from on Napster is actually pro-napster. Why? I like music that's meaningful and was sung from the heart of the singer... not made up crap for money. Music is so meaningless when it wasn't made for the soul purpose of expression, but if it was made from expression, I'm positive that the artist would want everyone to hear their piece... Napster is the perfect tool for spreading that message. If people demand money for their music, they can have it... but most likely I don't want their music anyway.

So with that out of the way, warez is nothing like MP3s. Sure, MP3s are free and some people abuse it, but warez is 100% abuse. The programs don't really mold society in any way. You might be able to start a short-lived fad with a flash movie, but it's just that... it won't drastically change culture. I'm pretty sure no one will hear of Bad_CRC's All Your Base Video 20 years from now. Culture is changed by expression, not by fads. So banning warez and a ton of cheap warez flash newbies isn't going to change the course of history.

I am a pro warez person for the fact that I am cheap and have no job. And I can't afford anything over 100 dollars

All i have is a monitor, a keyboard, a computer tower, and a mouse.

And I would rather take 3 days to download a program from warez site than buying a big buck programs such as Adobe Photoshop.

I bet most people will pick up a 100 dollar bill if someone offer it to them. Why not take it when it's presented to u??

Big companies such as Microsoft are earning alot of money. It doesn't really hurt them when some of us are freeloading programs from warez sites.

But i think it's alright if you only use the downloaded warez program at home. I am totally against using warez programs in compnies.

Warez is just like Napster....the music industry just want to earn more and more money. In fact, they are earning enough of money. The music industry doesn't want to protect artists' right. They want to ban Napter because companies such as BMG want to earn big bucks.

I am greedy. You are greedy. Bill Gates is greedy. Macromedia is greedy. Adobe is greedy. Everyone is greedy!!
WE just don't want to admit it.

However, I agree that we shouldn't post warez links or hacking stuffz on FK for the reason that it's illegal and FK's purpose is not for that.

If anyone is requesting or providing warez links, they should do it in other place. BUT NOT HERE!!

Peace outside.

You can't make an assumption that everyone is greedy in the world. Bill Gates has given much to charity and has changed much of the way the world is handled by introducing a user-friendly interface that could appeal to billions of people. A whole new era sprung up because of him, and you can't really expect him to give everything he's worked for up for no reason other than because he "has too much." I believe it was Andrew Carnegie was the one who said "Millionaires are worker bees that put much into the hive, but also take a bit of the honey for themselves."

Honestly, I could care less about material posessions. The reason people are corrupt today is because of your idea of human nature. They think it's normal and okay to take what they want. That thing about "Seeing $100 just sitting there and picking it up." Why would you want to do that? Do you know what was done for it to end up there? Not everyone in the world is filthy rich with money pouring out of their pockets... so just imagine this:

You're walking along and you see $100 just laying on the ground, you pick it up and slip it into your pocket... then just a short distance ahead of you, a single working mother of four frantically searches her purse for the money she worked all that over time for. Nevermind her though, you're gone now. You're out the door and didn't bother to ask anyone because you, like all of us, are greedy. Now that mother has to go and scrape up everything she can to provide for her children while you sit around your house in a new pair of $100 shoes. Don't you have a guilty conscience? You'd be no worse than a guy who mugged her for it. Was that pair of shoes worth that grief you gave that woman? I would think that the feeling in your heart you get when you do something good like giving the money back is worth much more than all the money in the world. Could you imagine having everything and not having any happiness?

Just a word of clarification, FK does not care what you do in the privacy of your own home. FK is owned by a public company and most of its advertisers are corporates. Corporates just don't want to be associated with anything illegal. Posting warez links hurts FKs credibilty and standing hence the sites ability to survive. For example if it got out of control the boards would close.

I agree

I think that flashkit shouldn't be a site for advertising warez. Number 1 its illegal, Number 2 It's totally unprofessional. I also think that warez isn't bad. I think the only bad thing about them is if people just download them and have absolutely no intention of buying the product. I admit I have illegal copies of stuff on my computer but after I use them and learn them I purchase it. I think its the only way to see if you want it or not or in some cases to purchase it. Come on 3DS MAX is 2g's!! Over 4g's Australian. Why would I want to buy the program without even testing it first? I would get it, take it home, find out it's **** and be down 4 grand!.
Thats just my opinion anyway
David

Originally posted by Kefka MP3s and Warez are different. MP3 is music, music defines our culture. Music affects our lives in pretty much every single aspect there is, it affects our mood, our personalities, and we form favouritisms for forms of art. I think that pretty much every artist I download from on Napster is actually pro-napster. Why? I like music that's meaningful and was sung from the heart of the singer... not made up crap for money. Music is so meaningless when it wasn't made for the soul purpose of expression, but if it was made from expression, I'm positive that the artist would want everyone to hear their piece... Napster is the perfect tool for spreading that message. If people demand money for their music, they can have it... but most likely I don't want their music anyway.

So with that out of the way, warez is nothing like MP3s. Sure, MP3s are free and some people abuse it, but warez is 100% abuse. The programs don't really mold society in any way. You might be able to start a short-lived fad with a flash movie, but it's just that... it won't drastically change culture. I'm pretty sure no one will hear of Bad_CRC's All Your Base Video 20 years from now. Culture is changed by expression, not by fads. So banning warez and a ton of cheap warez flash newbies isn't going to change the course of history.

First af all, let me just say that home duplication is actually illegal. It is a breach of mechanical copyright. Do you have the permission of every artist who you download? No you don't. Under your 'music for the people maaaan' guise, you are ripping these people off.

The reason I feel so strongly about this is that I write (dance) music for a living. I don't make a whole load of money, but i get by. My last 3 releases were all over Napster like a rash. I also know a lot of people in the same position, who also object to illegal duplication. There are musicians all over the place who don't live in Mansions, and who love writing music, but also have to live (rent, food etc..) while writing the music. To us it is the difference between selling 20,000 records and 25,000 records, which is a big difference. There are also independent record labels (one of which i am signed to) which have to eke out a living. They run on a shoestring, and all secretly hate Napster. The last label I was signed to went bust - and they were a brilliant, innovative record label. If Napster didn't contribut to this, then they can't have helped the situation, can they? There are also the engineers, producers, studios etc .. all of whom have to get paid ... right down to the tape op getting paid £80 a week. Do you have their permission? I don't think so. Also, who do you think pays for the promotion and plugging for you to be aware of a record in the first place, for you to download it from Napster in the first place? The people who go out and actually buy the record in the first place.

You'll find that a lot of the artists who are pro-Napster are the ones who want to be 'down with the kids' and who either have plenty of money already, or are signed to some fat-cat major anyway. At the end of the day, Napster in its present state makes the small people suffer.

Now - lets draw a comparison between Napster and warez. In music, we use two main bits of software - Cubase and Logic Audio. These generally cost £500 a piece. I have legit copies, but i know people who don't . Quite frankly, I don't care (When I said in an earlier point i was 'anti warez' i meant more that i am 'warez indifferent' ) . The companies who make them probably almost have as much money as Macromedia and can absorb the cost anyway. Having an extra £30 passed on to me every time i upgrade due to piracy is neither here nor there.

It's not the software that you have, it's the skill in using it that matters. I don't agree with your point about competition. You eliminate competition by being better at something than everyone else - not by pricing them out of the market. The cream always rises to the top.

And - going back to your original point - surely Flash is a form of artistic expression as well??

People who use expensive programs can charge expensive prices, therefore getting back the money for their program in one job.

Once pirates start using free illegal versions they bring the price of jobs down because they didn't pay the high price for the software, therefore meaning the honest workers get shafted up the arse by the 'oh so poor' pirates!

Most of the honest workers have been students and are generally 3000 pounds in debt when they leave uni. They manage to buy the software!

If you Post Warez, We (the Mods) will remove it immediately. And you will not be given a chance to take it down if I see it. I will simply delete the thread. Be nice friends. If you need software at a discounted price, there are plenty of places to go that will offer LEGAL discounts. I will post these in another thread. We are behind Flashkit 100% on this, and you will be handled accordingly if you post warez.

****What is ok to post
//Links to Public Software that is Free, or is on a trial basis directly from the manufacturer or developer, or licensed redistributor. We love to hear about new software just make sure its legal, and it doesnt send you to a warez site.
//Links to your own developments.

*****What is NOT ok to post.
I will put this simply
//Do not post anything that you would feel uncomfortable looking at or downloading with both a kindergarten class, and the CIA behind you.

It's time to burn.

Originally posted by Kefka
Quit the crap kid, hard work is innovation... You have to work your way up with the rest... you're even screwing up our jobs. My job is to design sites for people with the tools I spent good money for and the long hours I took to learn it all. You, on the other hand, cut the work part and just start charging people... it's like an inflation of labor. We have too many damned Flash designers now that watching a Flash movie isn't even magical anymore... and there's a whole lot of damn ugly newbie sites to go with it too. Don't even say that you buy your products if you like them, that's why they make demos! If you already have the full version, why go throw $200 away for good morality? How many people do you know that give money like that "for the sake of commerce?" All you warez junkies say that and you never practice what you preach, bunch of rats.

So quit whining about the prices, get a rake, and go do elderly people's yard to scrape up some money like everyone else did. Or you could do like I did and get Flash for Christmas... wait, nevermind, you're probably some stingey spoiled brat who wanted a Playstation 2 instead of a tool to make money. [/B]

Ha 'Kefka' you make me laff. Your whiny rant got my blood pumping good and proper, misguided and incomprehensible as it was...hey I like posting useless drivel too sometimes, like this for instance.

Now, 'kiddo', take a deep breath, read the post again, and try to *comprehend* what I'm saying: piracy facilitates software sales and distribution. If you are using software that has a commercial purpose, but are using it to learn the product and not make commercial dollars, then all I'm saying is that it is in actuality a future benefit to software houses if you end up moving into commercial production and buying the product personally or for your company.

I illustrated this with a personal example where through learning the product I convinced my company to buy a couple of copies of the product. How is that "even screwing up our jobs". Dumbass. How did I "cut the work part and just start charging people". I said as soon as I moved to a commercial environment the product was bought. Dumbass. If you wanna flame someone about their post, try reading what they're *actually* saying and then maybe, just maybe, you will get that feeling people have when they have an *idea*.

You obviously have none.

Don't even try to judge what I would or would not do. If I stand to make even one dollar off a program it is from a copy I have bought. Waste your baseless assumptions on someone else, and save that precious 'quit the crap kid' talk for that little stump betwixt your legs.

o.m.f.g are you serious?

You can't make an assumption that everyone is greedy in the world. Bill Gates has given much to charity and has changed much of the way the world is handled by introducing a user-friendly interface that could appeal to billions of people. A whole new era sprung up because of him, and you can't really expect him to give everything he's worked for up for no reason other than because he "has too much." I believe it was Andrew Carnegie was the one who said "Millionaires are worker bees that put much into the hive, but also take a bit of the honey for themselves."

Your doing it again Kefckr. Are you seriously proposing Gates is not a selfish man? Have you read anything about him, or microsoft, or the proceedings against the company? Please get educated on an issue before you mouth off, otherwise you're just wasting time. Sure he's given billions for vaccination for third world kids...who still can't eat, and don't get me started on the merits, or total lack thereof, of immunisation...

Thankgod you didn't post this in a comp.newsgroup or you'd be getting totally hammered. Apple introduced GUI, not Microsoft. Microsoft just did a bad copy of it, and continue to duplicate (badly) instead of innovate. OSX brings out a cool translucent advanced interface and Microsoft goes ahead and copies it for their next OS rollout. You may support Gates in price collusion and distributor intimidation, but to me that isn't working for your money - that's as honorable as triad gangs collecting protection money from local shops.

What's the go with your head? That carnegie quote is the stupidiest thing (almost) that I've heard. Millionaires are worker bees? Well keep on working buddy and we'll see how rich you get. The only way to gain serious capital is to do the thinking, create the business, hire the worker bees, and live off the honey. Thanks for turning the whole structure of capitalism on it's head though. It was a totally not useful in any way illustration of absolutely nothing. :-)

Hey, am I getting worked up here? We'll you're deserving it after that first post. So lets quit with personal attack posts so I can chill. I'm chilled. I'm Aussie. It's my god give right to cut down the tall poppies.

Juz, you didn't really prove a point in any of the posts you made. It's sad to see that you just rip out at someone since they don't agree with your idea. It'll be pretty hard for you in life because I'm sure a lot of higher-ups won't like your ideas. The reason for all those big companies secretly supporting warez is because warez was used for others. If people would have all bought their software themselves, then none of this crap would have happened. Besides that, I'm pretty sure I'm right because my idea of how people should buy their products instead of stealing them because I have the backing of moral and religeous leaders, a constitution that has held the law of the United States for the last 200 years, and people who actually work hard for their possessions. You, on the other hand, have the backing of teenagers who yell "ANARCHY!" to fit into fake poser groups, and lazy highschool drop outs.

Don't say "Well, everyone said the world was flat and it wasn't!" People believed the world has been flat because they never tried to navigate it before. Your idea on how everything should be shared equally has been tried before, and has failed. We call it Communism... communism may work, but it doesn't work as well as capitalism... and you're ruining the fiber of it by ripping people off.

I used to do warez before, and the demos were plenty... I learn if I want to purchase a product or not by the demo, I don't need to have the program for free to learn for a couple of years and buy it later, or maybe not buy it at all... Actually, I'm doing better now that I buy my products because I value them more and I'm more determined to master them than if I got it all for free...

Anyway, I'm not sure this answers your question or not because your fits were so incoherent that I didn't clearly understand them.

Kefka - there is no way you can learn all about some of these programs in the 30 day limit. Don't take that to mean I support Warez though.
I did get the demo of flash, and decided I liked it enough to buy it myself. But there is no way I can do that with Director too much to learn in there. But I just can't earn enough to buy it, and I'm not a student either. I have never had warez, and never will. But I will probably never get Director either.
My biggest disappointment so far is that I don't see Dreamweaver, Fireworks or Flash paying for themselves either. When I bought them I never thought I would be stuck doing my student job still. Despite all my applications, not one job. (OK maybe I am just useless.. I know I am not brilliant, but I am also better than some of the sites that have rejected me).

Anyway the point of all this is to say I can say that if you dont want it done to you - well then, dont do it to other people.

call it a day

Originally posted by Kefka Juz, you didn't really prove a point in any of the posts you made. It's sad to see that you just rip out at someone since they don't agree with your idea. It'll be pretty hard for you in life because I'm sure a lot of higher-ups won't like your ideas. The reason for all those big companies secretly supporting warez is because warez was used for others. If people would have all bought their software themselves, then none of this crap would have happened. Besides that, I'm pretty sure I'm right because my idea of how people should buy their products instead of stealing them because I have the backing of moral and religeous leaders, a constitution that has held the law of the United States for the last 200 years, and people who actually work hard for their possessions. You, on the other hand, have the backing of teenagers who yell "ANARCHY!" to fit into fake poser groups, and lazy highschool drop outs.

Don't say "Well, everyone said the world was flat and it wasn't!" People believed the world has been flat because they never tried to navigate it before. Your idea on how everything should be shared equally has been tried before, and has failed. We call it Communism... communism may work, but it doesn't work as well as capitalism... and you're ruining the fiber of it by ripping people off.

I used to do warez before, and the demos were plenty... I learn if I want to purchase a product or not by the demo, I don't need to have the program for free to learn for a couple of years and buy it later, or maybe not buy it at all... Actually, I'm doing better now that I buy my products because I value them more and I'm more determined to master them than if I got it all for free...

Anyway, I'm not sure this answers your question or not because your fits were so incoherent that I didn't clearly understand them.

I'm sorry, but that was the *weirdest* post I've read in awhile. The whole time I've stated in a commercial environment I am totally committed to supporting software companies?? Can you read that sentence three or four times so you get it. Maybe print it out and hold it in your hands so the ink absorbs into your pores. Hey roll it up and smoke it - then say 'comprende'.

How do you go from that to some poorly worded 'religious, moral, US constitution, teenage anarchy' rant?? Lay off the weed buddy, get those neuron's re-calibrated.

Then you move to 'Communism', and from your display of 'thought' I seriously think you're ill equipped to discuss the merits of any type of political system. Hey, no Viet Cong ever called me a *****, but I ain't communist.

Check the post history and it was *you* who resorted to cheap personal attacks cause you didn't agree with what I said (not that you got what I said).

HA! This is Flashkit. Let's chill. Don't display anymore ignorance and it'll all work out.

I totally agree with you that buying a piece of software makes you that much more committed to learning the product.

You wouldn't walk into a shop and help yourself to the goods off the shelf..... so why download warez, it's the same thing..... it's just that people who use them are cowards.

I eventually managed to afford Director (just!) and it paid for itself in 10days and enough money left over to upgrade photoshop and dreamweaver!!! The 30 day trial was long enough to grasp it.... it just looks intimidating to start off with. But it's one hell of an investent and it does pay for itself!
[Edited by inputgain on 04-05-2001 at 04:23 PM]

months ago in some other discussion about warez, someone mentioned to have seen a member saying: "Im only 14, I can't buy flash!"

jeeze, if you asked your parents to buy you some software that costs like Flash 5, wouldn't they buy you one ?????
They buy you a whole computer including printer and bunch of other software, such as encyclopedias, and now they can't buy you a 400-dollar-software ?

I don't want to offend anyone, but I'm sure that many members here who are under 18 didn't even ask their parents to buy them Flash.