I cant handle this any more how you claim this isnt part of amorc ... as esp THIS IS the real teachings of amorc ...ITS ALL ABOUT THESE ORAL TRADITIONS; NOTHING ELSE ...

what else should it be ... ?

people who teach just use different orders to teach, sometimes its GD, then BOTA, Amorc and in future maybe the order of the ancient mystical order of pink elephants with yellow wings? ... AMOPY

like bota currently seems to change to "F.L.O." .... the teachers are the same ... just the outer vehicle got corrupt - and is being replaced;

this definitly will happen one day to amorc and all other orders;

or do you think you get all the teachings from "abc university"? no you get it through your teacher - who is currently a member of the prof . stuff .... mabye ten years later he / she teaches at some other university;

this living structure is the key to rosicrucian teachings and is not limited to one group; its the other way round ... currently this or that group is the vehicle to teach .... and will be replaced through another group one day ...[u]

as the owner and CEO of a big european production music publishing house - I met her already and (even if I dont know her personally as a friend) even had a short chat with her, also I know her yoga teacher very well - john scott ... one of the best ashtanga teachers in the world; a very spiritual person and profound practisioner and teacher of the yoga path;

I had the impression that she is very clear and aware - all people who are her friends confirm that she is very spiritual - was even interested for a while in RC teachings and esp yoga and qabalah;

could we at least agree that someone who dominated the whole pop music business for 2 decades and earned more money than you could even earn in 100.000 lifes - is not an idiot? I dont know what you earn - or do for a living - but her music is brilliant, the composing, audio engineering, stage performance unbeaten - and always - people who are very successfull usually are always interested in spirituality;

it s this typical attitude - just THINK you know ... knowing NOTHING in reality ....

I d suggest that you build up an order like bota, hogd or amorc yourself, or earn 1 billion dollars and become a superstar .... and then tell me who is an idiot ....

I ll have a surf now .... anyway good luck in life ..... I am sure that in reality you are a clever guy and sooner and life will take you there where you belong - to true happiness and success

(oh my god this is really the last post .... all I wanted is someone who helps me out as I would like to read the 11th degree monographs .... not start a debate about the sense of life ....which really is completly off topic )

First, would it be at all possible for you to formulate your thoughts completely before you respond? Second, I'm just going to ignore your last post. Your questionable tastes in music, praises for Madonna and your materialistic obsessions (are you a Material Girl?) are your own problems. Lastly, I'll leave the discussion of what and how AMORC disperses it teaching up to AMORC themselves (emphasis mine):

"The teachings of the Rosicrucian Order, AMORC, are presented in booklets called monographs..."(Mastery of Life, AMORC website)."Nothing that has ever been found helpful and based upon truth in any of the teachings of other schools and philosophy or thought, in any land, has been left out of the Rosicrucian teachings. A synthesis of everything that Metaphysics, Science, and Religion have been able to contribute to the cultural development and intellectual mastership of man has been included in our teachings...."(Mandamus 1, 1920's) Current Monographs:

Mandamus 2: "Duly appointed Imperator, H. Spencer Lewis developed the activities of the Order in America and began to put the Rosicrucian teachings in writing..."

Mandamus 3: "The Rosicrucian teachings are divided into four sections: the Postulant Section, the Neophyte Section, the Initiate Section, and the Illuminati Section.""The Higher Teachings of the Order are those which were especially designed and compiled by the Higher Masters of the Order for delivery in the Secret Temples of our Order by the appointed Masters and Officers in Tiled Lodge Rooms and under the Seal of Secrecy and Sincerity. Such lectures contain the most complete presentation of all the occult Laws and Principles handed down through the Ages and amended by the modern Masters in all countries, so that today they are of practical value in these modern times....

"Those members who cannot attend Temple Lodges and who are carefully selected and deemed worthy of receiving the discourses of the Temple Lectures by correspondence under Oaths of Allegiance and Secrecy, will receive the same private monographs by mail each week as the Masters of the Temple use in their Lodges in delivering the teachings to the Members assembled. These lessons and monographs are the same throughout the AMORC of the international jurisdiction of North, Central, and South America, British Common­wealth and Empire, France, Switzerland, and Africa, and the only difference between the lecture work as given in the Temples and the study of the lessons at home by correspondence is the absence of the discussions and the modified form of Rituals."(Rosicrucian Manual, 1927, p. 69)The lectures, lessons and experimental work of National Lodge were especially designed to meet the requirements of Members of AMORC who cannot attend regular Temple Lodges....(Rosicrucian Manual)All Sanctum Members are urged to visit at some time or other one of the Temples of the Order throughout the worldwide jurisdiction, and especially to attend the annual Rosicrucian World Convention, or some special session of the Supreme Grand Lodge in San Jose, California. The studies, especially prepared by the Imperator's staff, are complete, however, and members finding it impossible to attend Lodge or Chapter sessions will not be inconvenienced.(Rosicrucian Manual, 1990, p. 53-54)

amandachen posted another brainless comment, without any content or message ... hurrah we definitly live in the post content society...

and worlock you fool ... tell this all the ten thousands of amorc students who currently get since decades of teachings about astrology, tarot and qabalah .... which you definitly wont find in any monograph ... regardless what you think .... you just dont know and talk abotu things you have no clew ,;

it doesnt get true just because you repeat it and everyone in amorc can confirm that .... esp in the rc academy and adytum you learn esoteric tarot, qabalah and astrology ....

i was in bota many years .... and the amorc teachings of wilhelm raab - and also the new grandmaster in germany - was even more competent than any bota convocation ... and i really liked the tarot teachings in bota; ...

wilhelm raab also was teaching - just about 8 years ago - esp in regards to the secret figures of RC, about the fama and gave wonderful lessons about qabalah and tarot ; also in south africa there was a nice group just about 10 years ago where even non amorc members have been thought in qabalah ...

you can buy even a book where wilhelm raab explains the secret figures - as he did it in amorc;

madonna:just disrespecting other peoples lifes- people you never met, you dont know - by repeating what you saw in some braindead tv shows .... or what you red in some forums ,... congratulations you are a true adept .... arre you the cosmic master of amandachen?

oral tradition: even mentioned in the mastery of life booklet and website,

found the link to the old grandmaster of amorc - he even was angry at the current imperator when he didnt continue the oral teachings in regards to the fama (these teachings - which mr know it all claims .... dont exist)

http://www.wilhelm-raab.de/

the link to the book of wilhelm raab where he - in many details - goes through the fama fraternitatis .... this book is divided into 12 sections which originally have been monographs (not standard amorc monographs!!!! BUT monographs you recieved when you attended the illuminaty conclaves or rc academy)

the oral teachings even went far beyond what is already mentioned in this book; the content of this book cannot be found on ANY GD book, israel regardie book, HOGD monographs ...

but for the piracy rosicrucians / copy, scan and paste adepts ... no worries .... just buy the book? still theres´s a lot of explanation about the analogies e.g. of the fama;

I dont find the details to the secret figures - but I have it still at home somewhere;

I had to even colour the tarot myself, paint every hebrew letter, we meditated / pathworked every letter several times - got additional monographs and a very advanced knowledge about all the connections / correlations; and much more;

the academy RC - it takes you 12 years (!) to finish this academy, all teachings are ORAL! no monogaphs; every 2 years a new course starts at the german grand lodge, and the group meets at the grand lodge house in baden baden;

why is it only after the 9th degree that you can take part? you have to go through all the other oral groups first, for example the demi circle - where you study the herew letters (also not in the monographs) the tarot cards, the planets, the alchymical symbols; in every detail you learn from someone who studied it him / herself for decades;

currently: for example - in vienna (i visited the group for a while) there has been an adytum where you went through the fama fraternitatis - and in every detail the symbolism was explained - every time a symbom meditation and MUCH MORE; currently there is a special adytum (a second one) for the secret figures - it takes the members 7 years (!) to go in every detail through the pages of the secret figures;

artisan: esp neccessary to understand all the things which have to be mastered to achieve: psychic projection, assumption, cloud, telekinesis, prophecy, telepacy, invisivbility and materialisation (which are very difficult exercises - only mastered by few - so in these artisans you might see invisibility and materialisation - as usually some members master these exercises - even if you yourself didnt succeed) so if it is not advanced to master the assumption (getting one with the mind of another person, knwo what he she currently does and even be able to influence what the person does) projection (reaching every spot on this planet and more) invisibility, materialisation and reaching other realms (learning how to control what franz bardon calls akasha - and control elements) ...then tell me what is advanced;

after that: at the end of the 12th degree you learn how to completly master psychic projection/ body of light ... . the inner order gives even "lessons" which one can only attain in a spiritual way - even if you can attend physically - if you live near (and are invited)

then it continues with cevaliers RC, you still have the illuminati conclaves, special events in regards to certain topics e.g. ....

and all this is still the outer order - as the inner order begins once you all of a sudden feel these contacts - it begins at the 10th temple degree - many members get in contact with a master - this is reported very often; some travel to india, or meet a physical person whereever - the teachings dont come in physical form / monographs - even if you still recieve monographs;

I personally found one master in india, he was still alive - it was master satyananda (died 2010)- I knew from past lifes already .... who introduced me to a complete and unique kriya yoga with 76 kriyas - and another master I dont want to mention - who still lives in rishikesh today; you can even live in his little house - he only accepts students with a developed kundalini; (all outside of amorc - connected through spirit and meditation - you might find your way to the teachers who can - in person - work with you) this kind of "order" is never limited to one organisation

I experienced - after a mantra initiation - many different staes of consciousness - sakshi bav state - the witness state - where I experienced for many weeks - even my thoughts, emotions - as something outside of my consciousness; all these techniques you get from these last kundalini masters are simple - and have a lot to do with mastering your ego, being a humble and forgiving person - with high etics and moral; less with rituals, intellectual knowledge and reading;

the masters I met and was in contact with - never ever showed any powers, never used strange rituals or complicated knowledge, their teachings where simple - and their aura and hubleness breathtaking;

so if someone claims to be a senior adept of som GD like order - I really have my doubts if one is able to master hebrew letters, tarot, qabalah, all the exercises, master ones own ego, get all theoretical knowledge AND become a person with principles and moral ...self realisation takes time - and we learn - what kind of parody we all are - thinking we already know .... knowing nothing ...

writing all this down to show that amorc kept its promise towards me - and this is why I am foolish enough - to battle in this forum - like a farmer who teaches his donkey reading ...I really hope that some people who read this - dont get distracted be the ones who make stupid claims - not knowing what amorc really is;

everything chances - one day also amorc will be an "empty bottle" - when the inner structure will move on - I really hope that amorc will still be teaching the next decades as I got a lot out of it

opal wrote:I really have my doubts if one is able to master hebrew letters, tarot, qabalah, all the exercises, master ones own ego, get all theoretical knowledge AND become a person with principles and moral ...self realisation takes time - and we learn - what kind of parody we all are - thinking we already know .... knowing nothing ...

But that's all neophyte stuff in the G.D. You learn that in the first damn week of joining.

first which GD are you talking about? the real GD didnt exist after 1903, AO and SM also didnt survive till today; HOGD is - and I only understood after a while - gives some knowledge - but not very advanced at the end .... SOL is led by steven tanham today - an ex amorc member - he has some kind of knowledge - but the senior adept - for exampe in australis / SOLA - is more than dissapointing in my personal opinion ...

she was a member only since late 2007 ....and already senior adept ... this is this kind of - sorry for the word - bullshit qabalah ....

can you read hebrew? can you at least paint the letters? do you understand all the analogies and correspondences -

you really think you can learn this in even 10 years?????

even in bota is was a very long way ... it took almost 10 years to go throu the whole set of teachings in a very BASIC way - even after these 10 years - you just begin to develope some intuition about qabalah ...

this is exaclty the missconception all these GD people have;

1) qabalah, astrology and hebrew letters are only a small part of esoterical teachings, it is one neccessary step on the path;

at a certain point - forget about it and move on;

but to learn in in 1 week (I guess you mean in the first year) ....or even 10 years

opal wrote:even in bota is was a very long way ... it took almost 10 years to go throu the whole set of teachings in a very BASIC way - even after these 10 years - you just begin to develope some intuition about qabalah ...

First, I just have to say that your need to consistently resort to the most sad of arguments "even though it has nothing to do with the discussion, I was in unrelated group _whatever_ for X years so I KNOW" is insanely obnoxious. Are you really so impotent to stand on your own two feet that you need these groups to prop you up? How many times have you told us you were in BOTA? 4, maybe 5 times, along with some sort of HOGD group. Yeah, good for you. Anyone who pretends authority based on their dues paying ability is about as spiritually evolved as a mushroom (possibly less). And honestly, how many times do you really need to state that SOL sucks, yeah we get it. So and so was only a member for a few years and now they're a senior adept <gasp!>. Am I the only one who notices a distinct air of jealousy with every repeated mention? If you're what AMORC produces after so many (alleged) years of membership and (alleged) secret teachings then I would expect most people to avoid AMORC like the plague.

Second, your mention of Raab is fairly illuminating, since he's the guy that was passing around GD material as secret oral teachings. If we had started there, this conversation could of ended there. Maybe then we could have all been spared your Lobsang Rampa-esque diatribes of passing through spheres and personal discovery of secret systems of yoga.

Perhaps one day you'll grasp the fact that what you learned peripherally to the AMORC has NOTHING to do with the official teachings of AMORC. The amusing part is that AMORC promises it's correspondence members that they will receive ALL the teachings, then you come along and say "no, there's secret oral teachings." So either you're full of shit, or AMORC lies to it's members and withholds these teachings from those who cannot attend group meetings. It's nice to know that the correspondence only members, who make up the vast majority of AMORC, are not receiving any meat to go with their potatoes. Or perhaps a secret master will come to them in their dreams and deliver upon them the secret teachings. But how does AMORC charge for that and how many secret master can there really be out there? Granted, most of this isn't all your fault, the German groups have a long history of blurring the lines between occult streams.

Oh, last but not least, madonna is an idiot, her music sucks and the kabbalah center is crap, etc and all that. It doesn't take an adept to realize this, just someone with ears.

allright mate - its all good ;-) maybe read mastery of life .... where there s a clear explanation that there´s also initiations and oral teachings?

what you claim here is completly wrong - but sorry mate - only scond place in regards to the ignorance award ....amandachen won the first price .... telling us all that in her "G.D. you can learn qabalah, tarot and astrology in one week ;-)

wonderful - what about enlightment .... second week I guess?

always interesting - you know all about madonna, amorc, bota .... telling a 2 decade member what amorc is ...

oral teachings have benn even part of amorc since 1916 .... but in your reality/ world ... nobody but you is right ....

for everyone else .... just tread mastery of life - bota is currently dissolving - unfortunately ... and I dont know enough about F.L.O to be able post about it;

yeah a stupid oad .... things like this always made me think if GD, AO, OTO, AA or SM have really been a mystery school in a true sense ...at the end all these groups didnt survive long, had only a few dozens of members in the inner circle ....whereas other groups and structures exist since centuries .... just change the outer vehicle sometimes;

in a true mystery school the only oad is - to your own inner self .... you dont promise anything to anybody .... you promise something to yourself ....and not to use the RC for egoistic matters, and only use the monographs for yourself; (so far the only promise in pansophia, bota, amorc, flo and other orders I know about);

normally this is also the point where one realises that he / she DOESNT know everything - and has to empty the glass first in order to be able to fill it,

well you see what happens if some immature people get these monographs and simply dont understand anything .... collect without initiation, ritual and oral teachings - monographs are just just paper (or bits and bytes on the computer) - red by the outer self - and if you mix all the teachings of dozens of authors .... if you want to catch 2 rabbits at the same time - you will catch none .... it doesnt make sense to study franz bardon, rosicrucian teachings, yoga, zen and 10 other teachings at the same time; it doesnt matter which path you choose .... zen is good, so is yoga, RC .... but one has to decide .... for one path at the end ....

it takes indians quite a while to search and decide for one teacher - and they only trust this one - because the family already knew the teacher for decades - or after searching and experiencing many teachers ....

but there comes a point where one has to stop talking - and listen - otherwise the best teacher cant help you;

the more tolerant and free one is, the more the inner forces become available .... not only does the outer self have to trust in the inner self .... the inner self has to trust the outer self;

nothing can be achieved without this inner consciousness, its not about special complicated rituals and exercises - but getting sensitive, connected, tolerant and helpful to others; a person of principles, without "harm" against others; very often uneducated people have a better understanding of their inner self, nature and the universe than intelectual "leftbrainers" ...

and many people dont get it .... that its still the ego - which makes them collecting all these books and scripts .... like a heroin addict - instead of listening .... nobody can teach you .... if you always talk ...

reading, contemplation and meditation is a difficult task in these days where everyone is so busy with him/herself, everyone knows everything, everybody is a teacher, master, doesnt need anyone but listening to his/her own ego / monkey mind´s blabla ....

just by copy / paste nobody becomes a master...and even 100.000 gigabyte illegal copies of books and monographs on your hardisc dont make you as enlighted as just a simple meditation / mantra;

just an excerpt of the mastry of life .... as some people try deliberately to make wrong statements about the oral tradition of amorc ...

if one knows the tree of life, there are 3 paths to go ... to get from malkuth to yesod: knowledge (monographs, mind) initiation/rituals and "true" desire / motivation;

The Initiatic Tradition (excerpt of mastery of life / amorc)As a member, you are not just taking a course ofstudy. You are passing through Degrees of study,rituals, ceremonies, exercises, and demonstrationsthat have a long historical background.Rosicrucian initiations are fraternalrituals designed to mark the milestones ofa student’s progress on the mystical path.In these beautiful rituals, mystical laws andprinciples are demonstrated in a dramatic form,to both inform and inspire you. Almost all ofthe Degrees of Rosicrucian study are precededby an initiation ceremony that can easily beperformed during home study. You also havethe option of receiving these initiations in amore elaborate form in the Order’s affiliatedLodges. You’ll find these initiations, whenconferred in the Temple of a Rosicrucian Lodge,are even more impressive to the psyche.The origin of initiation is as old as theearliest civilisations. In ancient times, theword mystery did not mean “strange” or“weird”. Rather, it referred to a unique gnosis~ knowledge which was to be revealed to thecandidate for initiation. In fact, in ancientRome the mysteries were called initia. Theinitiates were called mystae. The Latin wordinitiare meant “to inspire”.No rite or ceremony is a true initiationif it does not do the following; (a) cause youto engage in introspection ~ that is, turnyour consciousness within, to look uponyourself; (b) engender within you a feeling ofaspiration and idealism; and (c) exact fromyou a sacred obligation or promise whichyou make to yourself that you will try to fulfilyour aspirations. The purpose of Rosicrucianinitiation is for the same traditional andpsychological reasons.Participation in initiation rituals doesnot, in itself, make you a true initiate, andRosicrucian students are not required toparticipate in rituals. You become a Rosicrucianinitiate only through your own efforts, merits,and preparation. However, it is possible toaccelerate this inner preparation and this is thepurpose of Rosicrucian initiations.Fraternal AffiliationThe Rosicrucian Order, AMORC, is a fraternalorganisation that maintains a system of localRosicrucian groups. You have the option andprivilege of attending an affiliated Lodge,Chapter or Pronaos if there is one in your area.Here you can enjoy the company of fellowRosicrucians, hear inspiring lectures, engagein mystical experiments and participate inbeautiful ceremonies. You’ll also have theopportunity to attend a variety of specialevents, seminars, and conventions. NoRosicrucian member is obligated to associatewith a local Rosicrucian group, but it is highlyrecommended as a unique opportunity toenrich your membership experience.

You have the option and privilege of attending an affiliated Lodge,Chapter or Pronaos if there is one in your area.Here you can enjoy the company of fellowRosicrucians, hear inspiring lectures, engagein mystical experiments and participate inbeautiful ceremonies. You’ll also have theopportunity to attend a variety of specialevents, seminars, and conventions. NoRosicrucian member is obligated to associatewith a local Rosicrucian group, but it is highlyrecommended as a unique opportunity toenrich your membership experience.

Yeah, look those words up in a dictionary and then maybe you'll know why you invalidate your own argument. NONE of that actually implies anything even remotely approaching an "secret oral tradition." But whatever.

opal wrote:and many people dont get it .... that its still the ego - which makes them collecting all these books and scripts .... like a heroin addict - instead of listening .... nobody can teach you .... if you always talk ...

Beware of being drawn into conversations which may be deliberately intended to ruffle your feathers. Such conversations are often an attempt to discredit the individual and their Order's integrity in the eyes of the public. There are also those who would use such tactics (with challenges) to draw out information from you regarding the inner aspects of amorc.

Many are called, few are chosen and to the worthy who persevere, the Way is opened.