44 comments:

Althouse, I don't want to harp on this, but: If this health care disaster passes, I think that means that your voting strategy has officially backfired.

Up until now, I've held out hope that you were right -- that it was better to elect the Democrat with a D next to his name than the Democrat with an R next to his name.

The problem is, as some of us pointed out before the election: The first guy was actually a socialist with a D next to his name.

I thought maybe you were right; I thought maybe they wouldn't start passing their transformative agenda, one piece at a time. I thought you might have been right because you're apparently an extremely intelligent, earnest, logical, decent person, and one hell of a lot smarter than me.

Now it looks like this is going to pass; and cap-and-tax, card check, and immigration "reform" will be next. And maybe you were too smart by half.

I'm not saying I-told-you-so; I'm just saying I'm very disappointed that you were wrong.

What oxygen will there be left for cap N' tax, immigration and all the other nutbar liberal pipe dreams? Its all gone after this healthcare turdburger gets rammed through. We have to sit through the democrats changing into centrists and bleating about bi-partisanship for the next 8 months. Zzzzzz wake me when its November.

Since this is obviously a Queen Ann coordinated W-H-I-N-E-F-E-S-T...we might as well hear from your hero:

Glenn Beck and Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa) expressed harmonized outrage on Beck's radio program Thursday about news that the House might vote on the health care reform package this Sunday. Voting on a Sunday, they said, was offensive and heretical.

"They intend to vote on the Sabbath, during Lent, to take away the liberty that we have right from God," King said.

"Faith has been perverted," Beck responded, then repeated. "They are going to vote for this damn thing on a Sunday, which is the Sabbath, during Lent."

Beck continued:

"Here is a group of people that have so perverted our faith and our hope and our charity, that is a -- this is an affront to God."

gk1 said: "What oxygen will there be left for cap N' tax, immigration and all the other nutbar liberal pipe dreams?"

That seems optimistic to me. I see it the other way: Now that they've bloodied the hands of the Democrats in the House and Senate, there's no turning back. They've crossed the Rubicon. The only way Democrats will retain power is if they bring in enough illegal aliens to stack the deck; and make everyone dependent upon their handouts of carbon credits; and increase the size and power of unions.

They're all-in at this point. What reason would a blue-dog Democrat who voted for Obamacare have to vote against cap-and-tax?

Throughout the last 100 years, the word 'reform' has always been a harbinger for economic destruction by socialists. (See "land reform".)

Obama took his vorpal sword in hand: Long time the manxome foe he soughtBeware the Capitalist, my son! The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!One, two! One, two! And through and through The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!He left it dead, and with its head He went galumphing back.

I see it differently, the democrats have marched out in the middle of no mans land, they will pass this thing and then get annihilated at the polls. ON something this poorly thought out, they usually get enough republican simps to play along to give them cover, but nope, not this time. They own this train wreck and you can see the fear in their eyes. If they could think of some face saving way of dumping this thing and running they would in a heart beat.

Everyone, please keep in mind that Nancy Pelosi and Obama are twisting arms, bribing and threatening.

The only counter threat is that they will be voted out by US. Ultimately, it is we who truly decide their fate and it is we who will make all of their elections national events.

After they are kicked out of office, Pelosi and Obama can renege on their bribes and they may not even have the power anymore to make good on them even if they want.

So, Nancy and Barack will say ANYTHING to get us to give up calling, faxing, emailing and showing up in person to protest this stripping of our liberty. To make the Democrats feel that Nancy's and Obama's way is the only way.

We must hold fast and keep the pressure on them. Overnight letters, show up, call, email, fax! Keep fighting until it is done.

I sent an email last weekend through the web site of my congressman, Democrat Bill Pascrell (8 NJ), to register my dismay that he would vote for this execrable piece of legislative shit. I was nice. I didn't use any swear words. I just told him, in so many words, that what he was doing was stupid and that I wouldn't vote for him in the next election.

At work on Monday and Tuesday, my cell phone received phone calls from the 202 area code. I didn't pick them up. I have nothing to say to this clown or his staff. I only hope that the GOP finds someone serious to run against him. This is the year to send entrenched Uglycrat hacks like Pascrell packing.

It must be magic time! So, Article 7 says that a bill must be passed by both houses, with identical wording. If the House tries to bind its reconciliation fixes bill to the Senate bill, then the Senate would have to vote on the House stuff and that doesn't seem likely. Maybe the House Democrats will "deem" the Senate version to include that binding language. Heck, maybe the rest of us can deem that Congress will just go on vacation.

Of course, that last "deeming" might just be what Obama, Pelosi, and Dingy Harry want; give the Tripartite Power the control they truly want.

"Previously undisclosed records from Mitchell's case reveal that Fortis had a company policy of targeting policyholders with HIV. A computer program and algorithm targeted every policyholder recently diagnosed with HIV for an automatic fraud investigation, as the company searched for any pretext to revoke their policy. As was the case with Mitchell, their insurance policies often were canceled on erroneous information, the flimsiest of evidence, or for no good reason at all, according to the court documents and interviews with state and federal investigators."

And:"Insurance companies have long engaged in the practice of "rescission," whereby they investigate policyholders shortly after they've been diagnosed with life-threatening illnesses."

The article goes on to cite testimony from the Assurant CEO saying this is modern cost control. Just don't provide health care. They cite other examples.

" that Fortis had a company policy of targeting policyholders with HIV"

The NHS targets citizens who are old, have cancer, and are chronically ill. So does Canada's Medicare. US Medicare targets people who have heart failure and get hospitalized frequently, and those one expensive drugs.

And the new health care bill targets college students to pay for health care:"the federal government will borrow money at 2.8 percent and then lend it to students at 6.8 percent—spending the difference on health care and new government programs. ...students will, on average, pay $1,700-1,800 more in interest over 10 years—to pay for the Democrats’ health care bill. The government—instead of using that money to reduce costs for students who are borrowing the money—will use it to pay for more government programs. According to the preliminary CBO estimate produced this morning, the new bill will take $9.1 billion ver 10 years from students’ interest payments to pay for this health care takeover.”

I know that sob sisters like Alpha Liberal find this hard to believe, but the insurance system is not structured to handle chronic, long-term conditions -- and it shouldn't be. Insurance is supposed to take care of unexpected, one-time events, like a heart attack or injury or other life-threatening condition that needs emergency care. Any chronic condition one has, like diabetes, or like the possible long-term effects of a sudden illness is different and the costs of dealing with those need to be met in some way other than insurance. Health insurance is, or should be, no different from any other insurance: automobile, homeowners, etc. Those types of insurance take care of catastrophic events connected with those items, like damage from a car accident or hurricane damage to a house. They aren't for taking care of getting oil changed in the car or any of the many little problems that come up if you own an old beater, for example. And no one thinks there is anything wrong with that. (No one sane, anyway.)

The things people are complaining about -- the fact that insurance companies won't pay for pre-existing conditions, or that they dump you after an expensive illness -- are normal procedure for insurance companies because the insurance system isn't a care-for-life system. This is the bad fact that no one seems to be talking about. What people want the insurance companies to do is the equivalent of asking them to extend your auto coverage to regular oil changes, new tires, and so on. This is why tying health reform to the insurance companies is a bad idea.

What people really want is a payment plan for health care so they don't have to think about things like medical bills when they are sick. The reason for this is being sick makes us to a degree like helpless children. Feelings of helplessness engender fear which in turn causes anger, which is why you get all the "My child with diabetes! My mother with her chronic bad heart! All those people with cancer who can't go to the doctor! I had to wear my sister's dentures!" sad stories instead of reasoned debate on what we have to do. Maybe the answer is to set up some sort of Medicare-like system for everyone in the country -- but this is going to cost money, money that thanks to the shenanigans of our government is rapidly disappearing. All the screaming about mean, poor sick people hating Rethuglicans isn't going to change that.

You don't need a hotel room. Just camp on the Mall in front of the Lincoln Memorial ... like Martin Luther King did when he was securing the freedom of black Americans. He did that by going to Washington.

Walk into the House of Representatives. They can't keep you out. They can't keep thousands and thousands out. It's your House. It's the people's House. It is not Nancy Pelosi's House any more than it was Teddy Kennedy's seat.

Stand there, in your House.

Let your voice be heard anytime any of them attempt to speak. Shout them down. Shut them down. Stop them.

Make the Capital Police drag you out by your hands and feet. Don't resist, but don't help them.

It's your House of Representatives. It's your Senate. Go visit them.

It's only your freedom at stake.

Nancy Pelosi is going to alter a bill passed by the Senate - deem that bill passed by the House without a vote on it - and then send it to the President, who is going to sign it and change America forever.

All of this is outside their constitutional duties - against their oaths of office - and is illegal. It is the evisceration of the United States Senate and is a coup d' etat against your country.

Insurance is supposed to take care of unexpected, one-time events, like a heart attack .... diabetes ... is different and the costs of dealing with those need to be met in some way other than insurance.

I disagree. When I worked for a health insurance company 20 years ago, we paid for chronic illnesses and nobody ever said, "That's not what this is for." Treatment for chronic conditions, including AIDS (what Fortis did was despicable) was built into the rates.

At the same time, it is not unreasonable that we should pay for a significant part of our medical care. Yes, premiums and deductibles are going up, but so what? Why shouldn't we pay up to $5,000 a year for our medical care? We pay that much for housing and for cars and for food. Isn't medical care as important?

(Plus there is the added advantage that when consumers pay for something out of their own pocket, they spend differently. You don't have people going to the ER with diaper rash.)

I disagree. When I worked for a health insurance company 20 years ago, we paid for chronic illnesses and nobody ever said, "That's not what this is for." Treatment for chronic conditions, including AIDS (what Fortis did was despicable) was built into the rates.

What she is saying is what I have said all along. Health insurance as it is today, is not really insurance in the same manner as property/casualty. I'm not letting health insurers off the hook because they helped create this entitlement mentality in which we expect to fork over a $20 co-pay to cover a $5000 procedure. Well no shit premiums are going up. Her example is one I have used over in which you file a claim every time you get an oil change or tire rotation. You'd soon see auto insurance rates skyrocket (if they didn't just drop you outright).

If you're a health person, you can probably get by with a catastrophic care policy with a large deductible. If you're a chronically ill person, you need a pre-funded health plan not insurance.

Class factotum's example proves my point rather than disproving it. Just because the health insurance companies have been attempting to do what people want (and turn themselves into some sort of long term health plan provider for the chronically ill) doesn't mean that they should have been doing so. And people wonder why health insurance costs are so high.

I really don't like that phrase. I don't want my legislature and chief executive whipping the citizenry into line for their "Final March". It gives a very nasty "Great Leap Forward" vibe.

And when/if this goes through the Democrats will be emboldened to use these same profoundly undemocratic tactics again and again. And why not? In for a penny, in for a pound.

AL, I respect your relatively calm and measured approach, but you do yourself a disservice by falling back on that same tired false dilemma. The choice here isn't between "This bill, immediately, by any means" and "Status quo forever".

It's not like Congress is going to disappear forever next Monday. This is a high-profile issue that will certainly come up again. It's just that this particular set of "reforms" is harmful, dishonest, and inefficient. The Dems know these are valid points that need to be debated, but they're breaking every rule in the book and stacking up bribes like cordwood to ram this horrible mess through anyway. Against strong voter opinion. And purely to save face.

They are not necessarily high because of working people who take blood pressure medication every day. They are high because there are new treatments and drugs (thank you, imitrex), because of state mandates (Minnesota requires that hair transplants be covered in certain cases, many states require that infertility treatments be covered, hello inpatient drug rehab), because of cost shifting (Medicare, Medicaid don't cover the doc's costs and someone has to pay), because of defensive medicine, and because of overutilization (if you break your toe, you don't need to go to the ER).

Still, a high-deductible plan is not unreasonable for almost most people and it would solve some of these problems. When you are paying the entire cost of the office visit, you are less likely to go for every sniffle. You are more likely to question your doctor about lab work and tests. You are more likely to compare prices.

Class factotum - I agree people shouldn't go the doctor for every sniffle. But a broken toe? Surely that needs to be looked at by a doctor immediately. What if there's an infection and you end up needed to be amputated?