Pastoral Pathways: The Northeast Motorbike Loop

A bucolic corner of Vietnam, the northeast is a garden of rice fields, forests, lakes, and clear rivers ambling through limestone corridors. A mixture of meandering back-roads and freshly-sealed highways lead through three provinces: Cao Bang, Lang Son and Bac Kan; all of which are among the most sparsely populated in the country. Vietnam’s ethnic minorities are actually in the majority here, and their fascinating cultures and ways of life dominate the area. The scenery is pastoral and peaceful, but limestone karsts are a constant and dramatic presence on this loop. China looms large to the north; at times literally a stone’s throw away. A rich history – from victorious revolutionary exploits to devastating invasions and economic recovery – adds spice to this scenic ride. The Northeast Loop is a favourite of mine, and it links seamlessly with the Ha Giang Extreme North Loop, to the west. Below is my full guide, map and video of the loop.

Each section represents one province: they do not necessarily correspond to one day on the road. The total distance is 850km. To get the most out of this road trip, I recommend spending 2 days on each section. I’ve included places to stay and eat throughout this motorbike guide, so no matter where you end up, you’ll be able to find food and a bed for the night. This is a meandering course around the northeast: it is not intended as the most direct route between each point; rather it is the most scenic and rewarding one. I’ve written this guide going clockwise on the loop, but you can ride it in either direction. As with other parts of northern Vietnam, the northeast experiences a real winter. From November to March temperatures can be chilly and conditions misty. The best time of year is September and October, when the sun is warm, harvest colours illuminate the countryside, and rainfall is rare. Note: the northeast is famous for its constantly changing road conditions: check the comments section at the bottom of this page to see any updates from readers. In particular, Road DT206/DT207 running along the Chinese border behind Ban Gioc is in bad condition, as is Road DT208 linking QL3 with QL4A between Hoa Thuan and Dong Khe.

SECTION 1:

The journey begins in Cao Bang City, a likeable little place on a promontory formed by the merging of the Bang Giang River and a tributary. Cao Bang has more than enough good food, accommodation, and small Vietnamese city charm to keep you entertained for a day or two. The romantically named Phố Vườn Cam (Orange Orchard Street) is a continuation Kim Đồng Street and Highway QL 4A as it passes through town. This is where you’ll find a string of decent-value mini-hotels and nhà nghỉ (guesthouses), as well as plenty of good street food. (For more about nhà nghỉ read this). Hoàng Anh Hotel (131 Kim Đồng; 0263 858 969) offers clean, bright rooms for $10-$20 (200-500,000VNĐ) a night.

Local food is interesting and appetizing in Cao Bang. A speciality of the region is lạp sườn which is a smoked pork sausage originating from China. There’s a cluster of lạp sườn producers on Vườn Cam Street, just beyond the night market, with strings of sausages displayed on the sidewalk. For breakfast, try the phở at the classic ‘no-name’ soup house between 2 and 6 Hồng Việt Street, behind the market. If you’re feeling cold, do as the locals do and order rượu nếp hấp trứng which is an egg and rice pudding soaked in rice wine. Eaten after breakfast, locals say it keeps your body warm on cold days.

A likable town: Cao Bang City at dusk

Head east over the Bang Giang River and leave Cao Bang on road TL203, going northwest. The lush countryside envelops the road as soon as you exit Cao Bang City. Bamboo grows up over the road, forming a shaded archway of dappled sunlight. Old, stone farm houses stand in fields of shimmering rice, bisected by gentle streams. Limestone karsts rise up from the carpet of green, like giant arrowheads. This is the northern-most stretch of the Ho Chi Minh Road, which runs the entire length of Vietnam. This particular section is a sacred way for many Vietnamese, because it leads to a remote border with China, where Ho Chi Minh crossed back into his native Vietnam in 1941, after 30 years of absence. Ho lived in a cave on the border and began the movement that would eventually lead to the declaration of independence from French colonial rule, in Hanoi on 2nd September, 1945. Even if you have no interest in Vietnamese revolutionary history, Pac Bo Cave is a mesmerizingly beautiful area to visit. The cave is located at the very end of the Ho Chi Minh Road, 8km beyond the crossroads just north of Xuan Hoa (also known as Ha Quang). There’s a local guesthouse near the car park: Nhà Nghỉ Hai Hoa: 0983 983 623. (Read my guide to Pac Bo Cave here).

History and natural beauty: Pac Bo Cave

After the cave head back down to the crossroads just north of Xuan Hoa. Turn left (due east) on road TL210, signposted to Tra Linh (also known as Hung Quoc). Climbing sharply up limestone cliffs, this fantastic back-road shadows the Chinese border. A huge white gash in the landscape, the road twists through a karst forest, passing remote villages that appear to be stuck in time. Homes are made of packed mud and straw with baked tile roofs. Oxen, buffalo, and horses transport crops, farming equipment, and people from field to village. Stone walls divide fields of rice, corn, and soy beans. Hay is stacked by children in 20-foot high pylons, echoing the shape of the limestone hills. Dozens of small villages dot this road, each one teeming with kids, flowing out of school gates on bicycles for the long ride home. A rocky creek ekes through the valley, providing animals and farmers with a bath after a hard day’s work in the fields.

Ploughing through the karsts on remote back-roads near the Chinese border

Eventually, this wonderful roads ends at the dusty, crossroads town of Tra Linh. A short hop from a remote Chinese border gate, Tra Linh sells Chinese beer and candy in its shops, and large trucks, loaded with a hidden cargo, await the cover of darkness to head over the border. There’s a guesthouse here, but it’s clinging to life. Nhà Nghỉ Quang Dũng (01669 872 234) is a narrow, four-storey building near Tra Linh’s main crossroads. Blighted by cobwebs and bad plumbing, this is a rather sad place, but it’s kept alive by the hard working son of the owner. Rooms are around $10 (200,000VNĐ) a night. Tra Linh has an intriguing market which displays a number of goods from across the border. In the mornings it’s a great place for some Chinese-influenced noodle soups.

Head south from Tra Linh on road TL205. After 12km this meets National Highway QL3 at the top of the Ma Phuc Pass. Bear left (due east) towards Quang Uyen. However, before you do so, it’s worth driving five minutes in the opposite direction, down the Ma Phuc Pass, to see the tremendous views. The tarmac snakes into the distance, between limestone crags.

Fine views from the Ma Phuc Pass

National Highway QL3 follows yet another beautiful valley punctuated by limestone karsts. There’s a new homestay initiative on the right side of the road, about halfway to Quang Uyen. Bản Pác Rằng is a cluster of ethnic minority wooden stilt houses that offer basic accommodation and food. It’s still in the early stages so, for anyone who wants to experience a more rustic homestay than the popular area around Mai Chau, this is a decent option. Unsurprisingly, rice in the main crop here. During late summer and early autumn the fields and villages are abuzz with harvest activity: a wonderful sight for a visitor; a lot of hard work for the farmers.

Turn left off Highway QL3 and pass through Quang Uyen on road TL206. A magnificent route through the kind of scenery that makes you wish you were a romantic poet, this is a ride to savour. Drive slowly and bask in the warmth of this landscape: gurgling streams, bamboo groves, crumbling farm houses, and jungle-clad limestone hills. However, strange as it may seem, trade with China along this peaceful route is roaring. The road has been upgraded to accommodate articulated trucks, carrying containers to and from remote border crossings. Travelling in convoys, they plough through this rural idyll, leaving clouds of dust behind them. Indeed, many of Cao Bang Province’s small roads are plagued by these giants of the road. It’s a bizarre and somewhat unsettling sight to see six juggernauts screeching through hairpin bends and growling up steep passes in such a sparsely populated and scenic area.

Trung Khanh is another dusty, crossroads town near a Chinese border gate. Like Tra Linh, there’s an interesting market here and a definite Wild West feel to it. Something appeals to me about these desolate, rarely visited towns, and their intriguing, dilapidated, old shophouses. There are several places to stay here, including Nhà Nghỉ Hoàn Lê, a guesthouse opposite the market on the main drag (685 Trung Khanh; 01695 705 355).

Road TL206 heads east from Trung Khanh towards Ban Gioc Waterfall. I have a soft spot for this area. The jade-coloured Quay Son River flows through a gorgeous landscape that somehow gets me in my stomach; it’s the same reaction I have when listening to a piece of music I love. I once camped overlooking the river here on the night of a lunar eclipse, which I will never forget. After 25km Ban Gioc Waterfall comes into view. One of the most impressive natural sights in Vietnam, this is a place to stop for a couple of hours and explore. I’ve written a guide to the falls here.

An impressive sight right on the Chinese border: Ban Gioc Waterfall

Vietnam-China border

After the waterfall, road TL206 follows the Quay Son River for several kilometres. At this point, the river forms the border between Vietnam and China. Chinese characters are clearly visible on shopfronts and restaurants. At times the distance separating the two countries is only 10 metres. You can wave at Chinese people on the other side of the water, or throw a stone into the Chinese brush.

Thankfully, relations between the two countries are (generally) pretty good now. This is mainly due to valuable economic trade ties. Historically, however, this border has been the main point of entry for invading Chinese armies over the last two thousand years. The most recent was the brief but bloody border war in 1979. Tens of thousands of Chinese troops poured over the border, laying waste to villages and agricultural land. Today, there are shrines by the roadside commemorating the Vietnamese who died.

Eventually, the road veers away from the Quay Son River, forming a long loop all the way back to Quang Uyen. This is a corner of Vietnam that’s seldom visited, yet it’s utterly bewitching. Single track, paved lanes meander around the base of looming limestone karsts, casting their shadows over hamlets nestled among lush crop fields. At Ha Lang (also known as Thanh Nhat) Nhà Nghỉ Minh Vân (0263 830 888) is a local guesthouse that’s great for those looking to spend a night off the beaten path. Rooms are around $10 (200,000VNĐ).

Bewitching scenery: dusk approaches near Ha Lang

From Ha Lang bear right onto road TL207. Interesting new roads are being cut throughout this area, most of which eventually lead back to Quang Uyen. However, staying on TL207 is the most direct route. Quang Uyen is a good place to spend a night. Khách Sạn Duy Hương (0266 266 888) is a great comfortable hotel on Phố Hòa Trung Street, Quang Uyen’s main drag. There’s food available next door and throughout the town.

SECTION 2:

Take National Highway QL3 south out of Quang Uyen. After 25km of easy, scenic, and smooth driving turn right (due west) at a T-junction for Dong Khe (also known as Thach An). Unfortunately, this short, pretty, back-road has been ripped to pieces by articulated trucks on the China-Vietnam trade route. Potholes and dust slow progress considerably. The 25km stretch can take up to an hour. However, it’s still a pretty route and the road surface was undergoing some much needed repairs on my last visit in October 2014.

At Dong Khe it’s a relief to join National Highway QL4A, heading south towards Lang Son. This bold highway was constructed during French colonial times. Cutting through limestone mountains high above rocky riverbeds, it used to be poorly maintained and extremely dangerous. However, it’s recently been completely re-laid and widened; now it’s a shining blade of asphalt chiseled into the cliff-face. The 90km ride to Lang Son is smooth and easy, although it can still get clogged around the intersection for Dong Dang, the busiest border gate in Vietnam.

The last few kilometres to Lang Son are on the northernmost reaches of Highway 1, Vietnam’s infamous north-south main artery. Happily, it’s in fantastic condition here, as this is the main entry and exit point for the roaring cross-border trade with China. The city of Lang Son has prospered from the increase in trade with the People’s Republic. A small, friendly city with a pleasant buzz on its streets, Lang Son is full of food, guesthouses, and a night market selling all sorts of products from across the border. Settle into a room at one of the dozens of mini-hotels on and around Trần Quốc Toản Street, sit down to a glass of cold Chinese beer, and soak up the atmosphere of this once far-flung border town. I like the friendly service and dirt cheap rooms at Nhà Nghỉ Hải Vân (10 Trần Quốc Toản; 0253 879 590). Just across the road is a quintessential local rice eatery, called Thanh Lan, where you can fill up fill with a variety of classic dishes, including chi trám, which I like to call the Vietnamese olive. After dinner, browse the night market, located a short stroll from the guesthouse.

Classic, one dollar, rice dinner, Lang Son

Weave your way out of Lang Son via Tam Thanh Street and onto Bến Bắc Road, heading west along the north bank of the Ky Cung River. Following the course of the river, the road snakes through a valley dotted with stumpy limestone hills, like oversized molehills covered in moss. After half an hour turn left across a bridge over the river, taking you onto Highway QL1B, towards Van Quan and Binh Gia. This is a lush, cultivated river valley, full of aromatic perfumes from the fields, the most potent of which is the star anise drying by the roadside.

At Binh Gia turn left (due south) to stay on Highway QL1B to Bac Son. Climbing steadily, the road slices through a cluster of forested limestone karsts, affording fabulous views down into the valley, where smoke rises from the little villages of wood and tile houses.

Bac Son’s reputation as a region of considerable natural beauty has been slowly growing over the last few years. Bac Son is a small, bland town with some interesting, narrow backstreets. But the town is surrounded by rice fields that are so brightly coloured it’s as if each blade of grass has been charged with an electric current. The fields are enclosed by a cradle of limestone karsts, which, no matter how many times you’ve see them, never fail to impress. Ethnic minorities populate the countryside here, living in brick, wood, thatch and tile homes that appear like nests amongst the fields and foliage. Just before entering Bac Son town, there’s a string of hive-like brick ovens where the roof tiles are baked.

Gateway to Bac Son: view from the mountain pass

Locals are warm and friendly, and – to my ears, at least – very well spoken. Quỳnh Sơn homestay village is located 2km behind Bac Son town. It’s clearly signposted to the left at the bottom of the pass, before entering town. Expect to pay around $10 (200,000VNĐ) for a mattress on the wooden floor and two meals. However, before bedding down for the night, ride the bucolic ‘Bac Son Loop’. This 60km scenic ride takes you south from Bac Son on Highway QL1B, before turning left at Nga Hai crossroads on a gorgeous back-road that eventually leads back to the Quỳnh Sơn homestay area. The scenery is lovely: green and fresh like a salad. If you’re hungry try the roast pork sold by the roadside near Nga Hai: the ultimate driving snack.

SECTION 3:

From Bac Son ride north back over the pass to Binh Gia. Bear left (northwest) on road QL279 towards Yen Lac. Although this road is officially labelled a National Highway (QL), in reality it’s a small, paved, country lane which sees very little traffic. QL279 is an extraordinary road that leads cross country, through some of the most mountainous terrain in Southeast Asia, all the way to Dien Bien Phu, in Vietnam’s northwest. This particular section goes through Bac Kan Province, the most sparsely populated in Vietnam. It’s superb riding through warm, forested mountains and remote minority villages. The driving is easy and joyful; it’s like sitting back on a motorbike simulator and watching the landscape go by on projector screen. This is the heart of the Việt Bắc region, which was a revolutionary stronghold, particularly in the 1940s. Ho Chi Minh and his entourage could avoid detection by French authorities by taking cover in the tangle of steep valleys and forests.

Bac Kan: the most sparsely populated province in Vietnam

QL279 briefly joins QL3B just south of Yen Lac, before bearing left and continuing into the mountains. The twists and turns of this road can make you dizzy; it’s a knot of tarmac in an empty, jungled landscape. However, due to serious deterioration of the road surface, it’s necessary to turn off QL279 at Bản Giang and take a less direct (but no less scenic) route to join Highway QL3: Instead of crossing a small bridge over a river on your left, continue right (north) on a newly paved road. This road climbs up and then descends into a valley, from where it bears left (due west) and meets Highway QL3 (zoom in on my map to make sure you don’t miss the turn). Take Highway QL3 south for several kilometres to Phủ Thông. This is a very scenic stretch of road.

At Phu Thong take a sharp right (due north) onto the freshly resurfaced TL258. This pretty road ends at the crossroads town of Chợ Rã, which is known as the gateway to Ba Be Lake. The town is nice enough to spend a night before heading into the national park and exploring the lakes the next day. There are plenty of hotels and food outlets at the main crossroads. Khách Sạn Hoa Sim (02813 876 278) is right opposite the market and has excellent rooms with large windows, balconies, and wooden furniture, for around $15 (300,000VNĐ). For breakfast, look out for the old woman selling bánh cuốn (steamed rice flour rolls) across the street from Hoa Sim Hotel.

Steamed rice flour rolls (bánh cuốn): breakfast in Chợ Rã

To get to the entrance of Ba Be Lake National Park, continue west on road TL258 from Chợ Rã. There are several places to stay around the park headquarters, all offering homestay-style accommodation in brick and wood houses. Pay the park entrance fee at the ticket kiosk (25,000VNĐ) and ride on through the gates, past the big but bland national park resort, and on towards the lake. The road is in great shape as it sweeps deeper into the conservation area. There’s a noticeable change in the foliage and general atmosphere: trees get taller – their trunks become knotted and gnarled – the brush gets denser and greener; everything is on a grander scale; nature has a powerful presence here. Then the lake comes into view: a placid body of water enclosed by jungled limestone mountains, the water and silence occasionally broken by narrow, wooden motorboats ferrying locals and tourists across the lake.

Ba Be: Vietnam’s largest natural lake

Follow the road to the right until it ends at a cove where wooden boats gather to offer trips around the lake. This is a fantastic way to see the area, and trips are reasonably priced (200-800,000VNĐ); check the price list at the ticket kiosk when entering the national park. Alternatively, turn left just before the road starts to descend to the lake’s edge, onto a bumpy lane that leads above the lakeshore to the village of Pac Ngoi. Sprawled along the southern tip of the lake, Pac Ngoi village is crammed with decent ethnic minority homestays. However, it’s best to continue a while further to the next cluster of wooden houses at Bo Lu: it’s less crowded here and they have better views of the lake. Tourism has certainly arrived at Ba Be Lake, but it’s still in the early stages, and, although these homestays are far from rustic – wifi, satellite TV, plenty of food and drink – it’s still a fabulous experience, and homestay hosts are exceptionally warm.

Long boats are a great way to see Ba Be Lake

Newly paved back-roads lead south of Pac Ngoi and Bo Lu through wonderful, rural scenery; if you’ve got the time and want to head way off the beaten path, try getting lost on these remote routes for a couple days. The government has big plans for Ba Be Lake National Park: perhaps, one day, this will be a Southeast Asian Lake Como; celebrities and aristocrats will have their villas perched on the forested slopes above the calm waters. But for now, it’s an easily accessible, cheap, and extremely beautiful area to visit. Excellent maps and tourist information huts are dotted along the lake road.

Ride back to Chợ Rã and go out of town of road QL279, heading east. After 17km take a left (due north) onto road TL212. The first part of this spectacular road was still being upgraded when I last visited in October 2014, but it should be finished by the time you read this. This route takes you from a river valley – so lush you’ll want to hug it like a furry animal – all the way up and over one of the highest mountains in the region. Even if it’s hot and sunny in the valley, it can still be cold and windy at the top of the pass. Just before the final ascent there’s a small blue signpost on the right for ‘Tea Production and Processing Enterprise’. This small lane leads to a tea plantation with a guesthouse (0262 211 116) attached to it on a scenic plateau overlooking the valley. The tea is a special variety that only grows in certain conditions. Even if you’re not planning to stay at the guesthouse (nice, clean rooms for $30) you can still pop in for a brew. The tea tastes a lot like Earl Grey, which is one of my favourites. Just beyond the tea plantation there’s a dilapidated French colonial villa in the distance, crumbling on the mountainside to the west of the pass.

Decision time: Head east back to Cao Bang, or west to the fabled Ha Giang Extreme North Loop?

Road TL212 ends at a T-junction near the mining town of Tinh Tuc. Turn right (due east) onto Highway QL34 towards Nguyen Binh. After descending a sublime mountain pass, the highway is newly paved along a pretty valley, all the way back to Cao Bang. If you’re planning to continue west to join the Ha Giang Extreme North Loop, turn left (due west) at the T-junction instead, and continue on Highway QL34 towards Tinh Tuc and Bao Lac.

91 Responses to Pastoral Pathways: The Northeast Motorbike Loop

Thank you so much for guiding us all through this beautiful country! I am currently in Dong Van (coming from Ha Giang) and heading down to Du Gia tomorrow. From there, do you know how easy it is to go down the DT176 and head east along the QL34 towards Cao Bang? (Looking forward to taking the QL3!)

Unfortunately, most reports about 176 down from Du Gai to QL34 are pretty bad. I would advise asking for up-to-date information about the road conditions when you are in Du Gia, but unless you have a suitable bike and riding experience it’s probably best to go to Meo Vac and take QL4D down to Bao Lac and then pick up QL34 to Cao Bang from there instead. There’s more about both of those routes in this guide and map and this guide and map.

Good luck and please report back on road conditions if/when you ride them in the comments section at the bottom of the relevant guides.

Quick update – Just finished the loop in 5 days. Great weather and great scenery, some places look like another planet! Here’s an extra leg to start from Hà Nội: past Chương Dương bridge continue straight all the way up to Bắc Giang then turn left on DT243 to start your loop from Băc Sơn. A nice ride with not too many big trucks!

My favorite part was DT210 past Trà Lĩnh; a purely magical route for 3-4 hours. Then I got stuck on the horribly destroyed mud track that is DT203, but that’s because I didn’t follow your instructions to turn left 😉

Local people were very nice the whole way. However I was disappointed by food offerings along the road. Food is a huge part of my phượt experiences and I’m used to South and Central VN where there are quáns every 50 meters. Up there it’s just a few, and it’s always Phở-Bún or Bánh Cuốn. I’m not kidding! There’s the occasional Cơm place but it’s for groups (100,000đ if you’re by yourself). As for coffee, I was dumbfounded to find out there are almost no quán cà phê along the whole route and when there are they only serve Nescafé. Even in the cities it was hard to local food variety. I didn’t do any homestay but I guess that’s the only way to get some nice meal up there!

I used that way of Hanoi once, and I agree that it’s a decent way to avoid the trucks.

And I know exactly what you mean about the food and the coffee 🙂 It can get a bit boring eating bánh cuốn and phở every day if you are on the road in the northern mountains for a long time. I mention that (and other things) in this article about some of the differences between the north and the south.

Hello, we are currently in Lang Son and planning the activity of future days:) We are going to Bac Son, Bac Kan, Babe, Nguyen Binh, Cao bang, Ha Lang, Ban Giog waterfalls, Pac Bo. Besides Bac son loop trip we dont fully know about must see or must do on this road:) dont you have some tips on activities by this road?
I am also wondering that there is still possibility to swim below some waterfalls, Ban Gioc seems to be more and more touristic.?! And it is necessarily to have some permission to camp by the river near Ban Gioc waterfalls or it is possible just find some place and secretly stay here?

Thank you VERY much, your website is the main resource of info on our 3 months trip in Vietnam.

The scenery on that route is fantastic and there’s plenty to see and do – I’m sure you won’t be bored.

If you want to camp at Ban Gioc waterfall you should ask permission first. But if you want to camp in the countryside nearby you should be able to, as long as you as discreet and don’t draw attention to yourself.

Be warned that the road along the Chinese border from Ban Gioc to Ha Lang is in bad condition and probably best avoided.

Tom,
I am currently in Hanoi and was planning to start the northeast section tomorrow (9/18) to Ban Gioc and doing most of the north counterclockwise from there, ending with the limestone route.
Having second thoughts and maybe starting with the limestone loop instead due to the typhoon. Are you still planning the northeast in September?
Any advice?
Mike

September is usually a great month for riding the north, but there’s always the chance of a typhoon hitting at that time, too, which is what’s happening now. There has also been very severe flooding on the Ma River valley on the Limestone Loop – I had report just a couple of weeks ago about landslides blocking some of the roads. These were mostly in the western sections of the Limestone Loop so bear that in mind.

It’s very difficult to say what will happen with the weather. But keep an eye of the satellite on Windy to gauge how much heavy rainfall there will be. The current typhoon should pass within a couple of days, so you might be OK. It looks like (on the satellite) than when it begins to clear, it will do so from the northeast, so perhaps you’re better off starting there after all.

Hi Tom,
We are planning of hiring a car from Ha Noi to the Ha Giang and Cao Bang loop in 7 days. Having gone through your map in Ha Giang, we decided on Quan Ba, Yen Minh, Dong Van, Meo Vac and Ma Pi Leng pass on to Cao Bang. In Cao Bang we really want to visit Ban Gioc, Nguom Ngao cave, Cho Ra, Ba Be then loop back to Ha Noi. My issue is i’m sure how long it takes to go from place to place based on distance because the hilly or back road conditions etc. I need you help to plan my rest places so on day 7th we can arrive back at Ha Noi around 6pm for 9pm flight.
This is what i sort of had plan mapped out but it would be great if you could give some input.
Day1 Ha Noi to Hoang Su Phi
Day2 Hoang Su Phi to Ha Giang and Quan Ba
Day3 Quan Ba to Yen Minh to Dong Van
Day4 Dong Van to Meo Vac (via Ma Pi Leng pass) then on to Cao Bang (is that too ambittious for 1 day?)
Day5 Cao Bang to Ban Gioc to Nguom Ngao cave to Cao Bang to sleep over (please suggest other if possible)
Day6 Cao Bang to Cho Ra and Ba Be for overnight stay
Day7 Explore area around Ba Be in the morning then drive back to HN in afternoon for 6pm arrival

Or if you think we should start from Ha Noi to Cao Bang, Ban Gioc, Ba Be and then on to Ma Pi Leng Pass to Meo Vac and then the Ha Giang loop so its more flowing?! Please help! Thank you in advance 🙂

I think you should do it the other way around: Day 1: Hanoi-Ba Be. Day 2: Ba Be (explore) then to Cao Bang. Day 3: Cao Bang-Ban Gioc-Caves-Cao Bang. Day 4: Cao Bang to Bao Lac or Meo Vac. Day 5: Bao Lac-Meo Vac-Dong Van. Day 6: Dong Van-Yen Min-Quan Ba-Ha Giang. Day 7: Ha Giang to Hanoi (I think you will need to miss out Hoang Su Phi) with your time frame, but if you find you have enough time then you can do it.

It is a lot of driving and you will be spending plenty of time in the car, but if you get a few early starts and take it slowly it should be fine.

Hey Tom. Tnx for your extrimely useful source. I want to say that on the end of April we had droven by the road from Ban Gioc waterfall to Queng Uyen by southern half-loop. It was heavy 50km route by the crushed ex-tarmac surface road, full of patholes. I had even doubt – did you ever your “favorite pastoral route”. Now I think that you didn’t been there recently. Big tracks able to turn any decent road into such tipe of horror actually, especially during rainy season. But Im sure that its better to know about the troubles in advance.
With respect to your gorgeous work.
Stan

Yes, thanks for the road update. That road along the Chinese border behind and south of Ban Gioc (DT206) has been bad for a while now – that’s why I mention in the introduction to this guide. It’s a shame because it’s such a pretty area.

Hi Tom
Great block thanks for putting all this information together it’s been so helpful for planning my journey!
I rented my bike from ha giang and wanted to link topic No and then Ban Gioc but wanted to avoid the highway to cao bang as I would have to drive it back on the way back to ha giang. so on recommendation of the locals in Bao Lac I took the road direct from Bao Lac to Pac bo which I believe is the QL4A following the Chinese border and it was an amazing drive to Pac Bo. road is mostly good with some steep mountain passes and rough section but very manageable for an non experience driver like me. I recommend this way for anyone linking from Bao Pac to the northeast loop and wanting to save time not passing through Cap Bang

Yes, I agree – that’s an insane road (and so far unnamed, I think). I took it several months ago and am currently writing a short piece about it. Unfortunately, the weather wasn’t that good when I was there so, although the scenery and all the crazy switchbacks were impressive, I didn’t get any good photos 🙁

Hi Caroline,
Would driving through that route with 4 wheel drive be suitable? I am planning my trip from Bao Lac on to Cao Bang but if i could by pass that on go on to Pac Bo then on to Ban Gioc then that would be great because i’m planing on going via Cao Bang to Ba Be on my way back.
Looking forwards to hearing from you.
Trang

Thank you so much for your prompt reply Tom. That’s is so awesome. Thank you so much for your wonderful blog. I printed out everything and was reading on the train this morning and now i’m so inspired i want to rent a bike instead. Though im not sure of the logistic. Was thinking of saving time (and butt!) by night bus to Ha Giang from Ha Noi. Then rent motor bike to tour the HG loop and Cao Bang then drive back to Ha Noi. But not sure where to drop off bike. Would you be able to suggest something?

I would recommend taking the night bus to Ha Giang then renting from QT Motorbikes, do the Ha Giang loop and riding over to Cao Bang and back to Ha Giang to drop the bike off, then take the bus back to Hanoi again. QT are very good and they can give some more advice too.

Just want to send you a big thanks for this Amazing blog, the last two months would never have been so action packed and awe inspiring if it wasn’t for you, keep up the good work bro!

Thought it’s about time I gave something back, as plenty of people have already commented the DT 208 from Lang son to Quang Uyan is in an atrocious state, I think I must have seen the below commentor soldiering up the Muddy Sea of rocks avoiding trucks as we descended, not much fun, but they still had a smile on their face!

We followed the road from the waterfall along the boarder until the river and boarder split, again terrible state, but a nice short scenic side trip none the less. If you’re willing to potentially face the wrath of the Chinese police its possible to cross the river via long boat that spans the width of the river north of Da Nua, there’s a small town a short walk away with plenty of rustic charm, couldn’t find anyone who would accept dong but bought a beer and some snacks with a stray dollar bill.

Nhà Nghỉ Trường Mai in Cao Bang was one of our favourite Nhà Nghỉ so far, 200k dong for a spacious room with two double beds, very welcoming and giggle prone family, crazy cheap laundry (I’d recommend staying here and doing ho’s cave and the waterfalls as day trips).

I’d throughly recommend giving yourself a a full day to visit Ho’s cave and explore the surrounding area. On the road heading north clockwise, make sure you detour through Ban Hong for the scenery and a dip in the blue water which you’re denied at the cave (this is a real tease, I’ve never wanted to jump in a body of water that much in my life).

Heading south clockwise from the cave, since this article was published more roads have been carved in the Mars like landscape, venture off the DT210, some of my favourite roads so far, completely different from anything else I’ve seen in this beautiful country, your description of the area stands true, but you have multiple mountain passes to punish your second gear on – I can’t recommend this enough!

Ba Be lake is stunning, and there are scores of ‘homestays’ dotting her banks, we stayed at Hoang Chuyen, two double beds for 140k, and a delicious plenty full meal for 100k per person, it was sad to see the family eating a completely different meal in a different room after we were served, but I get the impression homestay has a different meaning somewhat in this area. Drinks are twice what they should cost and the boat trips and kayak rental it three times the price you will find on the north shore (200k for an hour per boat, 100k per hour for a kayak)

Finally if you’re planning on leaving the lake and heading to Ha Giang, do not trust the routes Google suggests, after 15 mins of clutch burning and doing my best to stop my back wheel straying sideways, I gave up on what I can only describe as a muddy uphill battle that will be the closest scene I had in this country to Hamburger l Hill (sorry if that’s in bad taste) The DT253 is acceptable, you will make slow progress however, don’t attempt any side roads until Thai Nguyen provence, unless you have a bike and a set of testicles fit enough for for chronic off roading.

We’ve went yesterday from Lang Son to Quang Uyen and that piece of road DT208 between Hoa Thuan and Dong Khe is in very poor condition so probably since last author’s visit in October 2014 it have not been repaired. It was really bumpy and slow ride.

Remember that the road following the Chinese border after Ban Gioc Waterfall is also very bad indeed, so don’t take it. Just take the road from Quyen Uyen to Ban Gioc (via Trung Khanh) and then come back again the same way.

I came this way — DT208 — today. It was pretty bad, basically 26km of mud, and I saw one pair or foreigners give up and turn back. I also think that just going to Cao Bang would be faster. That 26km took over an hour.

There are a handful of scenic spots but probably not worth the hassle.

First of all I’d like to tell you how amazing your blog is.
The amount of information you provide is incredible. I am traveling with a group of four and it will be our first time in Vietnam.
We’d like to do a bike tour through the North for about 7 days and would like to see as much of the highlights of the North as possible. Trying to steer clear of all these tourist tours and travel more independently.

Well the Borders & Back-Roads route is probably the least travelled, and you could combine that with the Ha Giang Extreme North Loop for a really great 7 days on the road. (However, please note that I am currently updating my Borders & Back-Roads guide.)

You can rent bikes from QT Motorbikes in Ha Giang – they have lots of bikes and additional route information, or you can even ride on the back on their bikes. You can mention Vietnam Coracle if you like, they know me.

Hi Tom!
Do you know what the road is like from Hanoi to Ba Be Lake? Considering starting in Hanoi to Ba Be to the waterfalls and then retracing back to QL34 to hit the extreme northern loop. Or would it make more sense to get a bus to Cao Bang, purchase a bike there, and then waterfalls-lake-QL34….

Hanoi to Ba Be is fine after Thai Nguyen – the first hour or so from Hanoi is quite grim but after that it’s a nice ride. You can ride it in a day if you start in the morning. That would be fine to retrace your steps – it’s a lovely ride and worth doing twice anyway 🙂

Hello! we are Gabriel and Marcos, in a month we are going to do The Northeast Motorbike Loop up to sapa but we want to visit first halong bay(cat ba) from Hanoi and some questions are hunting us…
We are concerned about the safety of the highway that leads to halong bay, being very traffic and we are not accustomed to driving in vietnam
Do you recommend us some route to do Hanoi- Halong Bay(cat ba)- Lang Son City? From Lang Son City we would link with the Northeast motorbike loop route to sapa

Your blog is helping us a lot in planning our trip , thank you very much and greetings!

Yes, the ride from Hanoi to Halong City or Hai Phong is not very nice. The new expressway (QL5B) is for vehicles only. However, this means that the old main road (QL5 – also marked as AH14) has less traffic than before. Alternatively, you could just take public transportation, or a day-night tour from Hanoi, for the Halong Bay section of your trip.

In general, the Northeast is notorious for its unpredictable road conditions, especially the road leading along the Chinese border behind Ban Gioc Falls – it’s probably best to leave that out at the moment.

Another option is to put your bikes on the train from Hanoi to Sapa (Lao Cai) and start your road trip from there instead, because this way you won’t have to deal with the busy main roads around Hanoi and Halong until the end of your trip, when you will be more comfortable and familiar with riding a bike in Vietnam.

We are currently in Cat Ba and thinking of taking the ferry to Ha Long, then riding to Lang Son. Do you think it’s okay to take 279 out of Ha Long until it meets up with Q1A then ride north to Lang Son? The ride from Hanoi to Hai Phone wasn’t so great and we’d love to avoid congested roads. Thanks!

I haven’t ridden that section of 279 for a long time so I can’t vouch for the condition of the road, but a couple of readers have commented over the last year or two that it was fine. I think it’s worth a try – perhaps before taking it you can ask locals for their opinion: check out these phrases for some help.

If you’re planning on riding my Northeast Loop please bear in mind that road conditions on the route leading beyond Ban Gioc Falls along the Chinese border and back to Quang Uyen are currently terrible, so that part of the route is best avoided. Check the other comments below for more about that.

We’ve just done the Quang Uyen loop up around the falls – Alex Foster below is correct, the TL206 route all the way from the Chinese border back down to Quang Uyen is an absolutely miserable ride. From the falls to the start of the loop took us 6 hours, including a 1km walk back uphill over shingle road to a local mechanic to fix a puncture caused by the terrible road state.

We’ve followed your trails across most of the country and love them, but I genuinely think you should either add a disclaimer to this part of the route, or ammend the trip to the falls as a there-and-back trip north similar to the Ba Be Lake portion. In its current condition it will be years before that road is repaired to an adequate standard, and I would strongly recommend to anyone that reads this to visit the falls (which are great!), perhaps ride along the Chinese border to investigate, and then follow the (wonderful) road back the way you came. As of July 2017 TL206 would be a strong contender for worst road in Vietnam!

Yes, I agree, that road is clearly in a bad way. As you mention, previous comments point this out too, and I have already included a ‘Note’ at the end of the ‘About This Route’ section near the top of this page stating that ‘the northeast is famous for its constantly changing road conditions: check the comments section at the bottom of this page to see any updates from readers’.

I will be revisiting this loop in September this year, and will of course take into account what you and other readers have contributed to this loop.

For now, I agree with your recommendation to forgo the ‘loop’ and continue back via the road you came.

But, until I have the chance to get back there myself and find an alternative route to complete a loop, I can’t rewrite that section of this guide. That’s why I’ve tried to direct readers to the comment section, where they can benefit from conscientious travellers, such as yourself, who have taken the time to write in with updates.

Absolutely fair enough, and thank you for the quick reply! For anyone also worried about the state of DT208 south of Quang Uyen and a possible alternative, we chose to head west from QU along Highway 3, which runs past the eastern outskirts of Cao Bang and then joins up with Highway 4A heading south along the river. We could tell this would have been a scenic ride had it not been bucketing down with a classic Vietnamese downpour! If DT208 is still in a bad way, this route involves a little backtracking but the road condition is great. You also get to see the Ma Phuc Pass again, which is definitely worth a second viewing!

Me and my friend have just finished a 3 month tour of the country covering 6000+Kms (and still took a train from Nha Trang to hoian) we followed your guides and routes all over so a massive thank you. We did spend more time in the north than the south and even this time of year we generally had great weather. With regards to this loop I’d really like to make people know about a couple of problems we encountered on the roads.

Firstly the road between the falls and Ha Lang on the TL206 is in an absolute awful state. The general road condition is the worst I’ve been on in Vietnam and took us hours to drive and wrecked both our brakes and our suspension. Even though there are some great views I’d not say it’s worth it.

After heading south from Quang Uyen on the QL3 you use the DT208 to get to QL4, this road is also in terrible condition with multiple parts suffering from landslides and there are diggers working to clear them so people be aware!

If you’re looking for a hotel near the falls I’d recommend going back slightly and the Kieu Thanh Nguyet hotel on the road to nguom ngao cave is brand new and really nice and even has soft beds. I’ve added this to maps me for anyone who uses this app.

Thanks for the road updates, that’s very helpful. Yes, the road around the back of Ban Gioc Falls and along the Chinese border has been bad for a while, and other people have commented as such recently too. And DT208 always seems to be in a state of reconstruction (which I think I mention in the guide) – this is a shame because it’s such a convenient cut through.

Thanks for the hotel recommendation – I’ll check that out next time I’m in the area.

Hello Tom, thanks a lot for the good information.
Me and my friends are going to do a small part of the trip – Cao bang to Ban Gioc and back again. I have a few questions:
1. Is this part of the loop suitable for 4 guys who never used a motorbike before?
2. I’ve read in the comments that’s it’s hard to rent a motorbike in Cao bang. Is it possible to rent it in Hanoi, and transport it within a bus?
3. Are there gas stations on the way?
4. Are there clear signs in the way for each road name etc? is it possible to get around without GPS/maps?

If you are only going to ride from Cao Bang to Ban Gioc and back again on the same road, then this should be fine for you. Most of those roads are pretty quiet. But always be very careful, especially because large trucks sometimes use those roads on the way to and from China.

Some buslines in southern Vietnam do allow you to transport bikes in the luggage compartment of the bus, so it’s worth asking the buslines and bus stations in Hanoi if this is possible. You could also try contacting the bike rental companies in Hanoi and asking if they have any more information about this: try Rent a Bike Vietnam, Tigit Motorbikes, and Style Motorbikes. There are links to all of them in the right sidebar and bottom of all my pages.

There are gas stations along the way, but make sure you have a full tank before you leave Cao Bang anyway.

Signage is OK, but it’s a good idea to have at least one smart phone with Google Maps GPS with you in the group.

Did some parts of the loop last Dec 27-28, 2016. Started from Bao Lac, the end of my Ha Giang Loop, and took the road QL4A to Pac Bo instead of going to Cao Bang City. At the first quarter of the way, some roads are under construction, there were even parts that were worse than bad. However, if you wish to skip the city and go direct to Pac Bo, you can take chance on QL4a maybe the road is finished by the time you take it.

After Ban gioc, went straight to Ba Be and spent two nights. Did not complete all of the loop at the lang son part but these highlights were more than enough for me. Check some pictures at my site if you wish, thewanderwalkers.com

Amazing site Tom! thank you for corresponding to me even while I was on the journey. 🙂

Some friends and I are looking to do the Northeast Loop in March next year. we have flights to Hanoi but are unsure of which is the best source of transport from Hanoi to Cao Bang where we will start the loop. Are there buses, or would it be possible to get a taxi at a reasonable price?

An overnight bus from Hanoi to Cao Bang is probably the easiest option. You should be able to find some more information about times and prices online or in guidebooks. I think a taxi wouldn’t be worth it – it’s a long way. You could share the cost of a hired minivan – I’m not entirely sure how much that would be; maybe a couple hundred dollars.

Bear in mind that some travellers have found it difficult to find bikes to rent in Cao Bang. You should be able to find them through the Cao Bang hotels, but perhaps expect to spend the first day there sorting this out.

Another alternative might be to contact the Hanoi motorbike rental companies and see if they can arrange anything. Try Rent a Bike Vietnam, Style Motorbikes, and Tigit Motorbikes – there are links to them in the rigth sidebar and bottom of all my pages. You can mention Vietnam Coracle if you like, they know me.

I’m planning to do Cao Bang loop (well, part of it, will skip section 2) and then head on to Ha Long – the most obvious choice would be to go via Lang Son, but from what I’ve heard from people who did it – it’s not the most interesting road (it’s ok, just not special) – some alternative that comes up from Google Maps analysis is to take QL279 (either all the way to Ha Long or switch to TL330 to Cam Pha). Do you know anything about those roads? Are they passable and are they more interesting than QL4B via Lang Son?
Thanks

I have done the Cao Bang Loop (Cao Bang – Pac Bo – Tra Linh – Ban Gioc – Cao Bang), as it is a wonderful journey to do. However, it is not that easy to get a motorbike in Cao Bang. Most hotels require to keepo your passport (impossible if you head out for a few days. Found two places in the end, however, they require deposits. One shop wanted 10.000.000 Dong (the bike was not even woth half of it) the other from a hotel was only 5.000.000 for a decent semi-automatic bike. But it seems it is much easier in Ha Giang

The road on most of this loop was still very good, especially the TL208/203 to Pac Bo and the Q3 and TL 206 to Ban Gioc.
One local I met actually advised not taking the mountain road from Pac Bo to Tra Linh, but I thought the condition was ok, and the route is just lovely with some stunning views. Though the hotel in Tra Linh was the worst place I have every stayed at.

As others have stated taking the road south of Ban Gioc and taking the TL 206 to Quang Uyen was not bad – it was atrocious. The scenery was outstanding, but the road was bad, or even worse than bad. Still worth to go that way, but people should be aware of the condition.

Got a few pictures of the road and scenery on my website solotravellerontour.com.
But I just wanted to say thanks for your advise and your website, as it provided such great insite an helped me planning the trip.

Thanks for sharing your experience on this loop and the updates on road conditions. It’s a shame about the road behind Ban Gioc Falls – every time they fix it, it just gets beaten up again by trucks and weather.

Sorry to hear about the problems finding a bike to rent in Cao Bang. That is a common scenario, even in Saigon: but usually, after lots of negotiation, they will accept a copy of your passport and visa, and maybe some sort of collateral as well. But, as Cao Bang becomes more popular, I’m sure they’ll be a more competent bike rental place opening up there.

Yes, the hotel in Tra Linh is not a good one, but that town has a dusty, off the beaten path vibe that I like, so I was just about able to stand the bad accommodation for a night 🙂

Hi Tom, Thanks for your excellent site. We will do a short version of your trip (Cao Bang- Pac Bo-La Trinh- Ban Gioc- Quang Uyen- Cao Bang) starting 3-10-16 and will let you know the conditions of the road afterwards.

Yes, it’s possible. Personally, I would prefer to go by motorbike: ride to Bac Son on day 1, then Cao Bang on day 2, the waterfall on day 3, and back on day 4. But it’s a lot of riding, so you should only do that if you’re used to long rides.

Public transport might be more complicated. It’s easy to get a bus to Cao Bng and then ask your hotel for transport options from there to the waterfall. But I’m not sure about public transport to/from Bac Son.

Also, if you’re thinking about travelling during the public holiday, bear in mind that everything – from roads to hotels to sights – will be busier than usual.

Hi Tom, I’ll be heading back to VN in early Oct on an off-road bike. I was wondering if you know of any routes/trails/areas that provide for easily- to moderately-challenging off-roading in the Northeast or Extreme North Loop rides?
Also, are any permits/permission required for entering into the area around Ban Gioc falls on the VN side. A tour itinerary on a VN motorcycle tour sight indicates permission was rec’d from the border police.

As far as I know there’s no need for a permit in this area – at least not on the roads that I’ve ridden. But there’s a border road running from near Lang Son down to Mong Cai that a reader said was very beautiful but required a permit – I haven’t ridden it yet but it sounds like it’s worth looking into.

The terrain and nature of the roads in the northeast is such that you may find you do quite a bit of off-roading anyway! But I’m not really the one to ask if you’re looking for a specifically off-road route. Try contacting Rent a Bike Vietnam, Flamingo and Off-Road Vietnam – they do a lot of that kind of riding and might be able to help you out with a suggestion, especially if you rent a dirt bike from them.

Not sure if this is good place for this but since I went from the Northeast to the coast finishing a loop the north I thought I would include it here.

I wanted to see the sea karsts without the hub bub of a group tour and I think I may have done it.

From Lang Son I rode to Van Don island and caught the ferry to Quan Lan island. I liked the wharf town of Cai Rong and had a room with a view over the wharf where there are boats and karsts in the background. Lots of guest house options. The ferry was 80000for me and the same for the motorbike. I also paid three guys 50000 each to load the bike on the boat. You have to take the slow wooden boatif you want to take your bike. But that is fine because on the slow boat you can go outside and up on the roof. Etc. You go through islands on the 2 to 3 hour trip and I felt satisfied that I had seen the sea karsts.

I arrived on a Saturday in July and there were plenty of lodging options. I was only there one night but managed to ride 60km so there is enough to explore. I also saw a place where people were camping on anice little beach point.

Hi Tom,
This is really useful thanks.
I really want to do the north but August is the only free time I’ll have to do it. You mention the prime times to do the north. Would the first half of August be a bad time? What might I expect?
Also wanting to take my own bike but want to avoid long day or 2 rides in and out of Hanoi. Can you put bikes on buses easily to and from places like Lao Cai, Ha Giang, Cao Bang or Lang Son etc?
Thanks,
Teej

August is fine: it’s the height of the rainy season but that doesn’t mean it rains all the time – usually it’s bright and sunny in the mornings and then the rains come in the afternoon. However, it does mean there may be mud on the roads which can sometimes be a problem on the nroth because the roads are often in bad shape. Rain also increases the chances of landslides which can sometimes close mountainous roads for hours or even days. So the more time you have to ride the north the better.

You can put your bike on the train to Lao Cai and Lang Son from/to Hanoi, and you should be able to put them on some buses too.

Hi Tom,
me and my son Marvin want to go the pastoral pathways this September, we think the weather conditions will be fine then.
We would like to rent the bikes in Hanoi. Can you tell us wich is the best (most quiet) road out of Hanoi to the starting point for the northeast loop.

Well, the most direct route is north on QL3. This used to be a nightmare of trucks and dust all the way to Thai Nguyen, but a new expressway (for vehicles only) has recently opened and this should have reduced the traffic on QL3. However, I can’t vouch for it because I haven’t ridden it since the opening of the expressway.

Last time I did it, I wanted to avoid the Hanoi-Thai Nguyen crawl, so I took a meandering route: first northwest out of Hanoi on Highway 1 towards Tu Son and Bac Ninh, and then turning north and wriggling my way to Thai Nguyen, via QL37 mostly. It was fine, but not scenic.

Usually, it’s not so much the route you take out of Hanoi (or Saigon, for that matter), but the time of day you choose to ride it: the best times for avoiding traffic and dust are early morning (really early, like 4am), lunchtime (11.30-1.30) or at night (after 7pm).

If you’re renting your bikes from Rent a Bike Vietnam (you’ll find a link to them in the right sidebar and bottom of my pages) then they should be able to give you some more help with this – you can mention Vietnam Coracle if you like, they know me.

Great site Tom, I’ll certainly utilizing it quite a bit as I begin (hopefully once my I get my licence next week) my month+ trip from Hanoi to Saigon. I’m not planning too far in advance, but for my first leg I’m thinking of making it to Bac Son on day one. Then either:

A) Cao Bang – waterfalls – Cao Bang – Ba Be, and on to the north west
B) Ba Be – Cao Bang – Waterfalls – Cao Bang and on to the north west

Any advantage to either route? I’m a sunrise to sunset type of travel but don’t really NEED to be anywhere. The more scenic the road the better.

Thanks again, and I’ll be making good use of your site over the next month(s)!

I don’t think there’s much advantage in taking one of those routes over the other. It’s a long day’s ride to Cao Bang from Hanoi, so maybe that’s reason enough to opt for B because you’ll have a break on the way.

If you’re continuing on to the northwest does that mean you’re skipping the extreme north? Because if you were planning on heading to the extreme north that might effect which of these route options to take.

I’ll forusre be stopping in Bac Son on day one, so that should be no trouble then (it’s tough judging how far I can comfortably do in a day until I’m out there!). I used the wrong term, I plan to basically do the reverse path of your extreme north trip. Does that change your advice?

While I have your attention, I’m just bike shopping now, any thoughts on win vs. dream vs. nouvo? Or any other recommendations/red flags when looking?

Well, it just depends which road you want to take from the Northeast to the Extreme North: You can either take QL34 all the way from Cao Bang City to Bao Lac, or you can take TL212 from Ba Be up to join QL34. The former is quicker but the latter is more scenic. Once you make that decision then you’ll know which of the Cao Bang-Waterfalls-Ba Be options to take, see what I mean?

For a bike I always use my Nouvo. But any of the bikes you suggest will be fine for this trip. Honda Wins have a reputation for being unreliable but they are good in mud and rough terrain – which can happen on the northern roads if there’s a landslide or road construction.

They are both great. The northwest is grander – bigger mountains – but the northeast is prettier – lush limestone valleys. So it depends which you prefer. However, there’ve been reports that Highway QL4A between Cao Bang and Lang Son is in bad condition so perhaps try to avoid that if you decide to go to the northeast. If going to the northwest don’t miss the Sin Ho Scenic Loop.

Basically the entire section you suggest riding after coming from the equally wrecked connecting road between QL 3 and 4A. There was a stretch of about 5 km which was indeed in good condition. The rest was the usual: craters, gravel, dust, no visible asphalt left, at some points even plain mud – plus heavy traffic. It gets better towards the end, but it’s astonishing in what little time (is it a year?) a perfectly fine highway can be entirely destroyed!

Wow! That really is a surprise. Yes, it’s about a year since it was fresh new asphalt. I would imagine it has something to do with regular landslides spoiling the road surface and then having to be constantly repaired, and the juggernauts plying the highway from China. It’s a very ambitious road so I suppose it’s bound to suffer as it clearly has done.

You can rent decent bikes from most hotels and guesthouses in Cao Bang city – just ask for xe máy cho thuê (motorbike for rent). It should cost between $5-$10 a day. Check it over first – lights, breaks, mirrors etc. If you’re renting for more than one day try to negotiate a slightly lower daily rate.

After leaving the Ban Gioc Waterfall I followed the road round the river and this is where the conditions started to get bad. I thought the road to Ha Lang was bad, however when I turned right at the junction in town and headed up hill out of town the road condition just became appauling. The surface from here back to the paved main road at Quang Uyen has been totally destroyed by the trucks. I encountered ruts half a metre deep, filled with mud. Possibility the most difficult riding I have encountered in Asia!

I thought I would be stranded there as the light went whilst still trying to get back to sealed bitumen so ended up riding the ruts in the dark! Somewhere I also made it on to a newly constructed gravel road that was a little easier, however there were parts that were a little challenging to get past.

Having said all the above it was just an awesome day!! Just brilliant just to get back to Cau bang unscathed felt like a massive achievement!

Next day took the Bus from Cau Bang to Lang son. This road is also very bad. Ended up with 40+ people packed into a 22 seater.

Could not find a bike to hire in Lang son so could not do the loop suggested to the west.

Instead took the Bus to Cam Pha. By contrast, and much to my surprise this was a lovely trip. The road was smooth, the scenery great and as a bonus the transport was a luxury transit bus with reclining seats – heaven.