Commentary on popular culture and society, from a (mostly) psychological perspective

Saturday, November 01, 2008

More on tipping

Okay, so many of you have emailed or commented on my previous post on tipping stating that this is an unfair strategy as it penalizes people who do not believe in wealth redistribution. This comment is a good example:

I am a school teacher who has been delivering pizzas for some extra bread, and will be buying into our owner's next store as an investor.

Also I deliver to a lower middle class/working class neighborhood as well. The other night at a house, saw a Ford F-150 in the driveway (and no it did not appear to be Dad's work truck) and a Toyota Camry. Nice Hispanic lady answered the door, married, three kids and what do I see in their living room? A 60 inch tv! Hmmm I work two jobs and can't afford a 60 inch tv. Bet they can't afford to buy their kids health care huh?

Of our eleven pizza drivers, I know of no one who is voting for Obama, except for one spaced out kid who is a total idiot (and probably isn't registered anyway). And we have drivers all over the spectrum from "older guys (I am 43)" to young college age kids.

Please don't take it out on us.

There is no way I could. In the space of the past 24 hours, I have been out to eat three times and left even bigger tips than I usually do. I am watching people work hard and I know I cannot withhold money to local people in Tennessee that are so industrious. Perhaps in blue cities or where it is clearer that people believe in redistributing wealth, it would be easier. Another thought is that if as many of the servers and pizza delivery people are for McCain as commenters are saying, he must be doing pretty well.

61 Comments:

Well, when I went to the Cowboys against Redskins game in Dallas last month, which we lost but that's beside the point, I shelled out for dinner for eleven friends at Ruth's Criss. Cost me about $1000. I told them, "The tip for this feast works out to $200, so pony up boys." Which they did, because the service was excellent.

Last night, I got home late and ordered a pizza for delivery. I tipped the delivery guy $4.

I've been a busboy, a waiter, a barback, and a bartender, so I appreciate the customer who tips well. So I always tip 20%, because I know what these guys are going through.

That said, I do not tip for bad service. I do not tip waiters who wear their political affiliation on their shirts. I go out to eat for convenience, and I'll gladly pay handsomely for it. I do not go out to eat to be berated by some political idiot for it, and I'm not about to tip for that.

I suspect the same is true for most people. I remember when I was a kid, Elvis Presley gave a press conference in which he was asked about the Viet Nam protesters. He said, "I don't have an opinion on that, I'm just an entertainer." When asked if other entertainers should keep their political views to themselves, he said, "No."

This is where I'm at. I will pay for service, for entertainment. I will not pay for political argument, be it right or left.

As I recall, the original "share the tip with a bum" story was based on a scenario where both the bum and the waiter sported pro-Obama signs. Absent that kind of evidence I'd be very reluctant to make any assumptions about the waiter's politics.

I've never waited tables myself, but I've known enough people who have to know that tips are the waiter's lifeblood. It would take lousy service or blatant politics from the waiter to make me withhold a tip.

Jason, the standard tip did not go up from 15% to 20%. That's just me. I always tip 20% for good service.

The reason why is very simple. Because the next time I go to that restaurant, I always get excellent service. The waiters/waitresses know that if they take care of me, they will be amply rewarded. This applies at steak houses and pizza shops.

You get what you pay for. When I call Ruth's Criss for a reservation or Pizza Hut for a delivery, I always get the best table or the first delivery. Why? Because they know that I will pay them handsomely. But if they give me any political shit, I won't.

Gaawainsghost, that all makes sense. I generally don't eat out, or put myself in a position where tipping will be expected, so I don't keep up with the conventions. Also, given that I don't eat out often, I can't reasonably expect any waiters to remember me, so there's no payoff in tipping extra. Thus I don't include future service in the calculation, just service rendered.

Don't stiff the wait staff just because you think they might be a liberal. If you get good or excellent service and want to show your appreciation, leave a minimal tip on the table (or on your credit card statement - which would be reported as taxable. Then, give your server the additional amount (chas) that you deem appropriate - with a note attached saying,"This is NOT a tip. This is a gift from me to you simply because I think you're an outstanding person, very pleasant to visit with, a friend of mine, cute, whatever reason you come up with. The "gift" will not be taxable. The government won't take their pound of flesh and the server will think you're an alright person. And there's nothing illegal about the practice of gifting.

Too bad Obama supporters can't be forced to sew little embroidered "O's" onto their clothing, eh Dr. Helen? That way McCain supporters like you and that woman in Michigan would know which poor people to stiff, which children to reduce to tears, which old people not to offer a seat on the bus...

Mentioned previously, this isn't Helen's idea. It's a urban myth/idea that's being spread around the Intertubes by wingnuts. See John Cole's post on it over at Balloon Juice.http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=13082

He used to support Republicans until they turned into people like Helen here.

Btw, for those conservatives who've emailed Helen, I hope you're aware that a vote for McCain is a vote for the kind of person Helen is: a divisive, unkind, mean-spirited and thoughtless individual who would still be promoting this dumb idea if you hadn't pointed out to her how insensitive it was. I'm not suggesting you go and vote for non-conservatives, but I am suggesting you consider that McCain is not the guy he was before he started his campaign. He's using the same lame and hateful tactics Bush and Cheney used against him. He's become the guy who would go along with a "stiff the waiter" idea...because he's not thinking. Consider the options carefully.

Btw, if Helen's going to stiff and regard workers who are liberals with disdain, she has her work cut out for her. There are hundreds of thousand more of them than she'd like to admit.

tmink - Monty Python? Really? I'm impressed. Working that into a conversation on tipping. Who woulda thunk it?

I noticed the other thread on this topic got quite bilious. Isn't it amazing how quite a few "Progressives" resort to hateful attacks when someone says something they disagree with? How.........progressive. /sorry for the sarcasm

themoy - interesting theory...why is it that the "Progressive" party always resorts to comparing people they disagree with, to Nazi Germany? Are you truly that hateful? I thought "Progressives" were the champions of Democracy....you do understand that democracy takes more than 1 party correct?

Moon rattle and themoy - so when someone differs in opinion from you, they are divisive, unkind, mean-spirited and thoughtless individuals....funny, seems thats exactly what your posts indicate about you as well....maybe you shouldn't throw stones.

Wolfboy wrote: I noticed the other thread on this topic got quite bilious. Isn't it amazing how quite a few "Progressives" resort to hateful attacks when someone says something they disagree with?

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Yeah, because stiffing low income wait staff who aren't of your political persuasion is the right thing to do and disagreeing with this practice makes you hateful.

So many of you neocons are uncomfortable with so much of America you almost need your own country. On Nov 4th, the vast majority of the electorate - including a huge number of people who voted Republican in the past and CEOs of corporations - won't be voting for a second Bush/Cheney act. If you're still hating on everyone who votes for Obama, you're pretty much saying you hate America.

Wolfboy wrote: "Moon rattle and themoy - so when someone differs in opinion from you, they are divisive, unkind, mean-spirited and thoughtless individuals....funny, seems thats exactly what your posts indicate about you as well....maybe you shouldn't throw stones."

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Why do the simplest things have to be spelled out. When someone proposes an idea like not tipping food servers as a way to get even with Obama and liberals, that IS being mean-spirited.

I just called it what it is.

Apparently a large number of other people who are regular readers of Helen were quite offended by her idea, which is why she's attempting to patch up her "gaffe".

Wolfboy: interesting theory...why is it that the "Progressive" party always resorts to comparing people they disagree with, to Nazi Germany?

I don’t compare people I disagree with to Nazi Germany – just those who complain out loud about being unable to distinguish those OTHERS they’d like to treat differently from the rest of humanity.

Wolfboy: Are you truly that hateful?

Hateful? Well, I certainly would never dream of denying some hardworking waitress or waiter a tip because I didn’t like their politics. Hate doesn’t come into it.

Wolfboy: so when someone differs in opinion from you, they are divisive, unkind, mean-spirited and thoughtless individuals....

No, I don’t think it is “divisive, unkind, mean spirited and thoughtless” for someone to have a different opinion than I do. I think it is divisive, unkind, mean spirited and thoughtless for someone to deny a waitperson a tip because they don’t like that waitperson’s politics.

As I said, Wolfboy, I don’t compare people I disagree with to Nazi Germany – just those who complain out loud about being unable to distinguish those OTHERS they’d like to treat differently from the rest of humanity.

Hateful? Well, I certainly would never dream of denying some hardworking waitress or waiter a tip because I didn’t like their politics. Hate doesn’t come into it.

Wolfboy: That's funny, Dr. Helen doesn't want that either.

Sure she does. She's just a bit hesitant because she can't be sure the waiter she's stiffing is truly one of those icky liberals, especially in Tennessee. As she put it, "Perhaps in blue cities or where it is clearer that people believe in redistributing wealth, it would be easier."

I don’t compare people I disagree with to Nazi Germany – just those who complain out loud about being unable to distinguish those OTHERS they’d like to treat differently from the rest of humanity.

themoy and Moon Rattled: Have either you bothered to read the posts? So someone asks a question and that means they are hateful and are comparable to a Nazi?

Dr. Helen has been consistent throughout the 3 posts. She tips when the service merits tipping. Not because the server thinks they deserve it, but because by their actions, they have earned it.

She simply asked if an Obama administration would make spending less a good idea by cutting back the amount you tip, if you tip at all. Once again, tips are not mandatory. They are a reward for a job well done.

Dr. Helen, and I, and many others here reward good service in a restaurant with a good tip, and poor service with a bad tip (if any).

She simply asked if an Obama administration would make spending less a good idea by cutting back the amount you tip, if you tip at all. Once again, tips are not mandatory. They are a reward for a job well done.

Wolfboy69 and friends-For what its worth, if you are someone who does not "tip at all", spare the restaurant-going public your haughty company and scowl over your meal at home.

Your adherence to the brittle ethical formulas of Ayn Rand and her ilk is tiresome - I too enjoyed her work as a child, but with maturity comes the necessity of admitting complexity and ambiguity into one's understanding of the world.

I read Robin Hood as a kid, never believed in his methods, but now there are many like you out there trying to employ Robin Hood economics on the Americans who produce and succeed financially. If that is not immaturity, I don't know what is.

And btw, it is not such a good idea to tell people not to eat at restaurants and eat at home just because they don't tip. If most of us do that, many places will go broke. I am already seeing some restaurants going empty because people do not want to spend at all. I am sure restaurants would rather have patrons that showed up and paid for their food (which is really all that is required) than not come at all.

Here's where I part ways with a lot of the idiot commentors on your other post.

You're not entitled to a tip.

You may deserve one - by custom - if you make my dining experience a pleasant one.

If you make it a sh!tty one, not a dime.

This includes editorial comments on my menu selections.

Expressions, verbal or non-verbal, of disdain for me.

Exasperation if my order is wrong and I send it back - consider it an opportunity to serve me better. Biggest tip I ever gave was to a waiter who acted as my advocate with management when my steak was overcooked the first time. He got it deducted from my bill. So I gave it to him - in cash.

I don't mind having to wait a reasonable time to have my orders taken or for the check. When I signal you "I'm ready" five minutes is reasonable.

I don't want to know of your opinions on politics, religion, or sex. If I know these when I leave, you have overshared.

I shouldn't have to summon you every time I want a refill.

The more you fail at this, the lower the tip will go. Merely adequate service gets you 15% - on my credit card, so it gets declared.

Good, exceptional, and outstanding service gets cash. If I'm asking you about "tip outs" it means I want to make sure I slip you a little something just for you.

And if you work at a place where the gratuity is mandatory, the bar raises.

I know being a waiter or waitress is to adopt a servile role, and fake sincerity when the stress of your life is tearing you apart. Those who succeed in this, I can be extremely generous to. In fact, if I witness another patron heaping abuse on you, and you roll with aplomb and grace, I've been known to add to my own tip.

But you're not entitled to it just by showing up, and acting like I am an interruption of you work. I am the PURPOSE of it. If I might as well have gotten my own food - then you're not getting stiffed, you didn't earn a tip.

Oh, and themoy and moon rattled - yes, I do avoid businesses who advocate for and promote causes I disagree with. Contrary to your masturbatory, parochial fantasies, it's not that hard to find libertarian/conservative businesses.

And they generally give me more bang for my buck, so it all works out.

Servers in my state earn $3.28 per hour. If these folks don't have the expectation of tips I don't think many of them would choose to continue with this line of work. Restaurant owners are too smart to expect people to work for nearly half of minimum wage without further compensation. If patrons quit tipping then the restaurant owners would be forced to make the choice between paying a living wage as a salary or shutting down. Restaurant prices would go up, or the gratuity would be automatically added to the check, or your favorite establishment would close. Is this what you want?

Like you said earlier, we can just eat at home if we can't pay a tip, so what's the problem?

Well please do so.

Your employment of the tale of Robin Hood in your attempted rebuttal upthread, while largely ill fitting as a depiction of my economic tendencies, is quite accurate in one respect: as an illustration of the wealthy in this country.

Far from being an ethically pristine class of heroic geniuses, a sober examination reveals quite a lot of them to be crooks who have fixed the economic game in their own favor, for instance by granting, parcelling and reselling subprime mortgages, or by opting to close down manufacturing facilities here and opening sweatshops in countries where the laws and desperation permit.

There is hope for you yet - even Alan Greenspan a week or two ago capitulated and admitted that his trust of the market to operate without regulation has been proven to have been ill granted. What a shame that the rest of us had to suffer so that he might experiment.

Reality has been repudiating Rand's ideas since the day she set them to paper (and for all of history preceding that moment). It just so happens that our particular historic moment offers up a decisive repudiation in particularly high relief. Rather than bandy about the possibility that this would be an opportune time levy your Randian virtue of selfishness against America's waitresses and waiters, avail yourself of this chance to rethink your elegant but unworkable philosophy.

I've thought about this more; I think to fairly paraphrase, you're saying that you are tipping in places that people know you. So, you're wishing to get out of any responsibility for your former post.

Good try. But other people, and, if I read this right, you, when safely out of town, still get to save a few bucks, stiff your waitperson, for some, uh, --words fail here-- fundamentally mean (cruel + cheapskate) idea.

Wasn't part of the whole John Galt thing "nor ask another man to live for him"? Isn't asking a waiter or waitress to work for you, bring you food, fill your water glass, be attentive to your needs, expecting someone to work for you but not giving anything in return?

There is an implicit, socially agreed upon contract here... we all know the structure that waitstaff has a low minimum wage because the normal tip range is 15-20%. If you've gotten reasonable service, not tipping is stealing from them, and it's quite petty.

If you don't want to tip, don't go out to eat. If you do go out to eat and don't tip, you're just being cheap. Don't hide behind some sort of faux John Galt social protest to hide that you're just trying to avoid paying people you don't happen to agree with for service fairly rendered.

Oh please, when the red states stop accepting tax money from the blue states we can start talking about which states "believe in redistributing the wealth." Tenn. takes in more in federal tax dollars than its low rent, hard working, red staters pay in. No doubt some of my blue state money pays for Mrs. Helen's forensic work. Please send it back, I'm tired of paying for this nonsense.

tmeyers: Actually, it will, albeit indirectly. Servers are taxed on the assumption that they're getting a certain level of tips. This is something I find that a lot of people don't know - i.e. that waiters and waitresses are paid less than the minimum wage but taxed at a higher rate. So, if you don't tip your server, your server is actually making less serving you than he/she would sitting in the kitchen doing nothing (although any server that sat around with nothing to do would certainly be let go in the long run).

This does not mean that reducing or eliminating a tip is never allowable - just that thinking of doing so as just not giving an extra gift is erroneous. Tips are not "extra" - they are expected in the course of acceptable service.

For those of you dreaming of a magical world without tipping - okay! Be prepared to see the cost of food on the menu go up 20-25%, though. Because the elimination of tipping would also mean the elimination of the "exception" that allows restaurant owners to pay servers less than the kids behind the counter at McDonald's make per hour. Few restaurants are highly profitable. In order to avoid losing money, they'd have to charge more. Also, you'd have no recourse in the case of bad service, with the exception of not returning to the restaurant. Have you ever eaten at a restaurant in a country without tipping and gotten bad service? I have. Flagrantly bad service. Didn't affect what I had to pay at the end of the evening.

Oh, and those countries without tipping? Restaurants have to pay servers more. Food prices on the menu are higher. Fewer people can afford to open restaurants. Now, in many countries waiting tables is a professional role that involves training and apprenticeship, so one can argue that the tradeoff is fewer restaurant options but with a higher level of average service. You may prefer that.

I would suck as a waitperson, for the same reason that Helen did. I typically tip well. Have I ever tipped lightly or not at all? Yes - for bad and uncaring service. Accidentally spilling something on me will not necessarily hurt your tip. Arguing with me that I "won't even be able to taste" an ingredient I specifically requested be left out that was instead put in will definitely hurt your tip. I've never left $0, but I have rounded up to the next dollar to make it clear that I didn't forget to tip, once or twice in my lifetime.

If you can't afford to tip 15-20% on a meal at a restaurant with table service, then you can't afford to eat that meal. THAT DOES NOT MEAN that you can't reduce a tip for mediocre service or even eliminate it in the case of horrible service. Think of it as being similar to the agreements one often has with contractors working on your home - you pay (or agree to pay) a certain amount up front, with the rest coming when services/goods have been delivered in the agreed-upon manner. If the service person fails to meet the terms of the contract in a significant way, typically the secondary payment is reduced or eliminated.

As for not tipping servers or tipping them less because of political buttons: People don't typically go out to eat in order to deal face-to-face with politics. Any button that takes a stance stronger than "I like butterflies" is likely to make someone unhappy. Unhappy people enjoy their meals less. People who enjoy their meals less tend to tip less. That's a law of the universe. But just not tipping *everybody* to protest a political regime you dislike? Sorry, as a libertarian/conservative, I'm getting distinctive overtones of a search for a free lunch here (no pun intended). TANSTAAFL - or one at a U.S. restaurant with servers in which you can with a clear conscience forego tipping for good service. I'm fond of rewarding people who work, myself. YMMV.

A waitress friend once related a story. She waited once on a customer; it was a perfectly ordinary meal, with no discussion of any controversial topic. Instead of a tip, this customer left her a note that she was not getting a tip because the customer was Christian and the waitress was obviously not a Christian.

Now obviously this customer had a strange idea of what being Christian meant. But I ask you, does that story make you think well of Christians?

Not tipping because you are a conservative and the server is "obviously liberal" will have much the same effect.

wacky hermit: If the waitress had been wearing a button saying, "I'm Voting Against Christians," then I'd say that the customer had a point. Same for a conservative customer not wishing to give a tip to a waitperson wearing an Obama button, or a liberal customer not wishing to give a tip to a waitperson wearing a McCain button. Assuming, however, that we are not in a button-wearing or similar situation, however, then obviously the customer is a cheap prat who makes baby Jesus cry. I'm betting that, had the waitress mentioned her Christianity at some point, the customer still wouldn't have left a tip - instead, she'd have left a "God saves" note or something along those lines.

That having been said, that story doesn't make me think anything about Christians as a whole. It makes me think poorly of one particular Christian, just as I think poorly of the 19 non-Christian types who participated in 9/11, but that doesn't mean I automatically expand my opinion of the individual to cover her (or his) entire religion.

marion brought up something I had meant to ask about, but didn't get specific: I know that wait staff are required to report a certain percentage of their sales as income, because years ago the government decided that they didn't trust them to report their tips accurately.

Does anyone here know what the percentage is now? It's been a long time since I had to do that, and then it was 8%. I think it might have been raised to 10, but I'm not sure.

So yes, when you don't leave a tip, you are costing them more than just the money you aren't giving them, they are being taxed on at least part of the money they didn't get.

What concerns me is what I'm gonna call "tip creep." I've seen this both in the % you're expected to leave (from 10-15% to 15-20%) to the number of places that have seem to have the expectation of tips. Restaurants/pizza guys (I was one, once) I'm fine with, other services, not so much.

My current bugaboo is getting my hair cut. I have the world's simplest haircut...and I use whichever "no appointment necessary" place (1st Choice; MagicCuts, etc) that I happen to be closest to. It takes between 15-20 min and I rarely have any sort of interaction with the person cutting my hair. However, pretty much every place now has a "tip" option at payment! I don't want to be a miser but I can't understand the obligation to tip someone who simply did their job and is making minimum wage at the least. Nobody ever tipped me when I was making min wage working at a bookstore where I could spend significant time with customers recommending literature and the like. My current practice is to leave a flat 1$ tip on a 12$ haircut. It's less than 10% but all I can stomach.

cham, despite a server's minimum wage being lower than a "normal" minimum wage, the law requires that an employer make up the difference if a server fails to make enough tips to meet the average minimum wage during a shift. I have never known any server who met this criterion.

If you are going to make the assumptions that Helen made about waiters and if you are going to even figuratively or metaphorically call for these kinds of tactics, and if you are also making high-level presumptions about yourself ...

... then you better not live in a glass house.

And I think the point is coming across that at least a few of Helen's walls are a bit transparent. Maybe Lucite or Plexiglas, but also maybe just glass.

I also think it's a fair topic of discussion given all of the stuff that she's throwing out, but she will not provide the courtesy of any kind of response.