I was recently with a new partner who is for the most part pretty fantastic. He was initiating sex and when I mentioned it he begrudgingly put on a condom (I don't take birth control). He was fine for a few minutes, then he rolled over and said he had gone soft. I tried to help him but he seemed irritated. He took it off and we laid for a minute then got on top of me and asked if he could try again without the condom and before I could answer he had put himself inside me. During it I didn't say no, I enjoyed it, but knew it was stupid and wrong. But before I got the courage to say something he pulled out and ejaculated onto my stomach. He ended up getting some sperm on my labia and when I felt it I pushed him off and went to the restroom to clean it off. I took a shower and I was fuming mad at him... I calmed down a bit after a while but I still feel.... not that great about it.

Now I'm just an anxious ball of ,,, anxiousness over the fact that it's entirely possible his timing was off and he got me pregnant.... I just.... grrrrrrr....just wear the damn condom or settle for a blowjob...

Also funny side note (not that funny but whateva) I could tell he wasn't used to having partners not on birth control and that he didn't use condoms because he put a condom on and I could smell it because it smelt like grapes. He was about to start and my educated in sex ed self was like ".....uh flavored condoms are for blowjobs only bro" ..... and he said he never knew that... lol

Edit: to clarify the title. I realize I made a blanket statement and some have taken it in a way I didn't intend. When I say "guys" I mean guys in the sense of the men I've been with. 2/4 guys now have had this same issue. I made a hasty generalization and I understand there are some amazing and respectful men, just as there are some who aren't.

Edit2: thank you all for the advice. I appreciate it. I meant this post more so as a vent. I'm going to the Dr. tomorrow to get a script for EC bc ya girl is broke and my insurance has really good prescription coverage. I'm taking advice from my dermatologist and GP and getting on BC asap (to treat acne and my severe PMDD). It's something i should have done ages ago. Also I recognize that STDs are also a concern. He and I both discussed this prior to having sex because catching HPV is a huge concern of mine. We're both clean so most of my anxiety is with getting pregnant.

but rape is violation of free will right,like forcing yourself on another party with no consent? i would think that going raw with a partner that wants it wrapped would be considered sexual assault. please correct me if i’m wrong.

edit : removing the condom even after clear indication the other party wants it wrapped IS rape. glad i got that cleared up, thank u for being informative r/sex.

She didn't want to have sex without a condom and he did it anyway. So he had no consent for what he did and he forced it anyway. I don't know the legal specifics of the words (and the legal system is fucked in a lot of ways to victims anyways) but I would 110% call that rape or sexual assault interchangeably. Good rule of thumb is to use the word the victim wants to use

It abso-fucking-lutely is. If she says no you need to respect it and if you don't, that is within the realm of sexual assault and rape. Honestly, can you explain to me how would it not be? Obviously it wasnt a violent encounter in which she feared for her life, but that isn't the only type of sexual assault. If it were, statutory rape wouldn't be a thing, and coercion wouldn't count either.

Its not. Not a legal standing case of rape. Creepy? Yes. Morally wrong? Sure is. Able to be convicted of rape in any state? Not ever.

She never said no. She never told him to stop. The condition of the condom doesn’t mean anything. Hell if sex is contingent upon a condition like this then I’ve “raped” my wife every time I promise to give her a back rub after sex and then I don’t.

Is there a chance you'd exchange an STD, or even make your wife pregnant + end up on the hook for child support and 18 years of responsibility after giving your wife a back rub?

No.

Your comparison is BS because it doesn't respect that one act has much more severe implications and consequences than the other.

It's not just about the refusal, it's the entire context.

If a woman says "I don't want sex without a condom", like she did, then he turns around and ignores that before she manages to push him away, he's already committed the act. It was not consensual, she'd already told him she wanted it only with a condom.

Doesn't matter whether or not she pushed him off after he turned around, she'd already stated her terms before.

Yeah. Just like my example. I totally raped my wife backing out of that back rub. I mean, she stated her terms before we had sex. Clear as day. The law doesn’t differentiate in severity of consequences as it pertains to this. It either is or is not. In this case, it is not.

You‘re really not helping your argument by making such an absurd comparison. For starters, declining to give a back rub doesn’t open your partner up to far higher risks of unwanted pregnancy or sexually transmitted disease than they agreed to. But anyway, your problem is that you’re thinking of not wearing a condom as failing to do something when in fact you should think of it as doing something: that something is having unprotected sex. And in this case that something was not consented to by both parties. Declining to give a back rub means an absence of physical contact and an absence of action. Rape requires both.

She explicitly told him to wear a condom. This demand on her part automatically implies “I do not want to have sex without a condom.” He violated that request, with full knowledge that he was doing so. In other words, the moment he penetrated her without a condom, he deliberately violated her consent. Even had she said no and told him to stop immediately after this and he pulled out right away, sexual assault would already have occurred.

Whether it would hold up in a court of law or not is irrelevant. Lots of things the average person would consider to very obviously be rape (such as anal or oral rape, spousal rape, or rape that begins as a consensual encounter only to have an explicit request to stop blatantly ignored) are not legally considered rape in many places (including parts of the US).

The fact that any of this needs to be explained to a grown man (with a wife no less) is disturbing.

Wether it holds up in court is absolutely my point. Rape is a criminal offense and has a very clear legal definition in every state and I’m telling you it does not fit in this case. Furthermore, my point is exactly the same, albeit watered down to make it easier for you to understand. If my wife makes it crystal clear that she will only have sex with me if I rub her back afterwards and I continue to have sex knowing full well that I’m going to get up and leave the room when I’m done how was that example any different? I mean, looking back at your statement I would have violated her request. One example, the sex is contingent on wearing a condom and the other example the sex is contingent on a back rub. In both cases the man deliberately and willfully had sex knowing he would not meet that requirement and obligation. In neither of these cases with the man be charged or convicted of rape in any state in this country.

Just like I said earlier I’m not condoning what he did and I’m not saying it was right in an ethical or moral sense. When I’m telling you is it absolutely is not rape in the legal sense. Anywhere. Period.

The guy said this was nothing like rape. I would define this as a sexual assault for sure, and sexual assault as rape's baby brother. It is similar. Also what the fuck do you mean she never said no, she literally made sure he understood she was saying no to unprotected sex before they even started. And he did it anyway. Lastly, how is not doing something for your wife comparable to actively doing something your wife specifically asked you not to do?

So as it stands I’m correct? It doesn’t fit the legal definition of rape. Christ. I’m not saying what he did was right. I’m saying it’s not rape and under no circumstances in any jurisdiction would he be charged, let alone convicted.

It is widely considered very rapey, and since its become a trend it has been reviewed and in the process of being made a law, but technically it is not outright stated that this specific act is considered rape as of yet in the eyes of the law. Its a fairly new thing so it was never specifically illegal. However, even though the odds are still not stacked in the victims favor, the offender could be tried and charged for something connected to the act of "stealthing", like if the perpetrator knowingly had an STD/STI. Or, the victim can attempt to sue for damages, but the likelihood of success for the victim in that case varies depending on what state they live in, the judge assigned to the case, and all sorts of other factors.

There are different degrees of sexual assault. Do I believe there should be some kind of charge for this? Fuck yes, I do. Nobody is saying he deserves 10-15 years over it. But a decent fine and a fuck you would be nice. And heavier charges for repeat offenders.

And if there was some efficient way to both judge and prosecute acts like this and, say force him to plea down to an 8 hour class on consent, an apology, and a fine, I’d agree with you.

But we don’t live in that world, and short of videoing every sexual act for review, it’s unreasonable in my opinion to make what he did, as bad as it was, a criminal act.

My then girlfriend (now wife) tried to stick a finger up my asshole on a couple of occasions after I had explicitly told her that I wasn’t into that. She thought I just needed to try it. Obviously after the second time I had to have a serious conversation with her about respecting that choice.

Forgive me if I don’t believe my wife is a criminal that should have a record and be unable to work in her current profession for that transgression.

Yeah for sure it was wrong of her to do that and all, but come back to me when sticking a finger up your ass causes you to get sick, maybe with a lifelong illness, or if it gets you pregnant. Then we can talk about how that situation and this one are equal.

Can you stop putting yourself in his shoes for a single second and look at what he absolutely chose to do.

Men excusing his behavior because they're scared of the word "rape" just lets us know that a man's individual feelings are more important than a woman's. He chose to act this way, not her. This is 100% his fault for not listening to her concerns, and he will absolutely do it again.

"She should of been more clear!" She literally said she only wanted to fuck him with a condom, he threw a baby boy tantrum and then shoved it back into her when she showed any level of relaxation around him about wanting to still have sex, because what he wanted was more important and he knew if he waited long enough, he could get a window of opportunity. That's fucked up, and as a man if you excuse that behavior (when he is absolutely violating her trust) then that's sad. Think outside of yourself for a single god damn minute.

This shit why women have to vet a hundred men online before they find one they are (hopefully) feel comfortable with, because men like in the OP will be given a pass - because if the men defending him in this post ever put themselves in this situation, they'd hope nothing bad would happen to them because it's totally not that kind of "rape" in their eyes.

I don't think I've excused his behavior at all. There is no question that what he did was wrong, and she should not sleep with him again.

What I'm trying to discern is if people really believe his actions rise to the level of a criminal act, where he should be prosecuted, imprisoned, and required to register as a sex offender. Because that's the consequence of rape. Does this actually rise to that level in your opinion?

Silence also isn’t non-consent. I know some want enthusastic consent to be the legal standard but, currently, it’s not. She didn’t withdraw consent and therefore, legally, it’s not rape or sexual assault. That doesn’t make it right, though. He’s a scumbag.

Silence also isn’t non-consent. I know some want enthusastic consent to be the legal standard but, currently, it’s not. She didn’t withdraw consent amd therefore, legally, it’s not rape or sexual assault. That doesn’t make it right, though. He’s a scumbag.

The felonious word "rape" was declared rather capriciously here. Consent, followed by silence, can't be presumed rape. Granted, both parties here were naive or stupid to not question or challenge things after the condom came off, but to presume silence = rape after consent is patently ridiculous.

Consent to one thing, followed by silence when the other party does not do that thing but does another, cannot be interpreted as consent anymore.

If I give you consent to fix my toilet but you patch up my wall, those aren't the same thing. If you think "sex is sex", you'd be wrong--there are a million ways of having sex, the general activity doesn't erase the specifics of how it's done, and here, the how is what mattered.

You'll just have to get used to the fact that you can't just say "let's have sex" and then proceed to do whatever the heck you want, without consulting whoever you're doing it with, anymore.

That's a person you're with, not a toy, they get a say and you damn well better respect it.

If a woman says no a couple times or even more and her "no" is ignored, her silence after the fact is obviously not synonymous with consent dude. Huge fucking difference. And here's another hint: if she's silent, shes not into it. If she doesn't seem excited, leave her thr fuck alone. Silence, 9 times out of 10, is a sign of fear or discomfort with the situation. I doubt your parents taught you that if they failed to give you yes or no answers, you could just do whatever the hell it is that you want.

no its not they were in bed together. sometimes things happen that we are not down for. recently i was in bed with a women and she started to play with my balls. I dont like that at all does that mean she assaulted me? No because i told her to stop and she did. She let him do it and regretted it later. she even said she enjoyed it since when do people enjoy being raped?

Playing with your balls doesn’t open you to the risk of unwanted pregnancy or STDs. Some sex acts if you initiate them and your partner asks you to stop and you do it’s no harm no foul. But others are different for various reasons, one reason being because they may have serious risks or long term negative effects. Some people enjoy being punched in the face during sex. Some people enjoy being choked until they pass out. Some people enjoy being kicked in the nuts or having metal rods shoved down their urethras. I think it’s fair to say that were someone to do any of these things to their partner without getting their consent beforehand that it would constitute sexual assault. If someone you’re in the middle of fucking headbutts your face hard enough to give you a bloody nose, but you say “stop” and they stop, does that mean they respected your wishes?

As for the enjoyment part: 1. People often experience not just physical pleasure and arousal but mental arousal during rape (even during the completely unambiguous “violent stranger in an alleyway with a knife to your throat” version) - this is just the way our brains are hardwired, and it’s often a major source of guilt and self-loathing for rape survivors; 2. By the time the guy had entered her unprotected, the damage had basically been done - not to speak for OP, but I imagine her attempt at enjoying the encounter was some combination of “making the best of a bad situation” and a form of denial. This is another very common experience rape survivors talk about: when you’re being coerced or violated in a way that’s somewhat ambiguous or non-explicit (no threats, no physical force, etc) it can be very scary to actually say “No,” since it feels like to say it makes it real - it’s easier to convince yourself in the moment that everything is fine.

the fact that you try to diminish my unwanted sexual experience while trying to make another sound worse than it was is vile and wicked and hypocritical. You people want to turn the act of love making into a legal contract that kills all romance and humanity from it. This is why men are going MGTOW and banging love dolls because everyone just wants to scream the R word these days.

diminish the unwanted sexual experience you yourself said was no big deal?

the fact that you're mentioning MGTOW in an even vaguely sympathetic light tells me everything I need to know. I've slept with plenty of women and have never been accused of rape or feared being accused with rape, probably because I'm serious about consent and figuring out what my partner wants and doesn't want. if you're so terrified of being accused of being a rapist that you feel the need to cut off all contact with women, I'm willing to bet there's a good reason you have that fear, and also that women are probably better off without you.

1) op says she wants to have sex only with a condom
2) this guy says ‘i want to have sex with a condom’ and before she can answer (because he doesn’t want to hear no) he, WITHOUT HER CONSENT, puts his dick inside her.

She specifically told him she wasn't okay with it. He pretended to ask and jammed it in before he could receive the "no" he fucking knew was coming. You should be banned not because of a civil disagreement, but because this is a sex positive environment and you can't even seem to understand the basics of consent, and refuse to learn.

In some countries, removing a condom without concent (after consent with a condom had been initiated) it's actually now classed as rape.

But yeah, that guy sounds like an arse, and that's not the type of thing to fuck with.
Without the possible risk of a baby (and the stress/ anxiety of worrying you might be pregnant) there's also STD to be considered.
What a twat

I feel like a man's reaction to being told to put on a condom is a litmus test to see if he's worth your time. Anything less than "Yeah, okay." is all you need to show him the door, since it's obvious where it's gonna go.

So when my answer is, "okay, then let's not have sex," I should be shown the door?
I don't want to have sex without a condom, and that means (for me) I need to be more invested in the relationship, and that we've both been tested before we have sex.

If my partner want to have sex before that, then I'm gonna say no to sex. And that's okay.

That sucks. I'm a guy and I've had the same problem with women. I've had sex with women I barely know and they insist I don't use a condom and swear up and down they're on BC. I'm not gonna take her word for it. I've even had women who've admitted they're not on BC and tell me to pull out or they'll get the morning after pill. HELL THE FUCK NO! It's insane to me how many people are so blase about it. Nobody likes sex with condoms but it's a million times better than child support payments.

I don't know who this guy is to you but don't get involved. He clearly doesn't care about you. If he can't stay hard with a condom, that's HIS problem. Never let anyone railroad you into unprotected sex. He let his true colors show and let you know what an uncaring jerk he is.

I think the issue a lot of people are missing here is that it’s not all about getting pregnant. It’s about STDs and STIs. Everyone is so worried about getting pregnant, when you are more likely to get a disease or infection because LOTS of STDs and STIs don’t have outward indications or symptoms on the carrier. That’s why you wear condoms. Protect yourself people.

I think a lot of women would be surprised how prevalent this is. There are a lot of women who simply DO NOT CARE about condoms, even during non-spontaneous, planned sex, including women who are on no form of birth control at all. I'm ashamed to admit how many of these girls I gave in to in my early 20s, but fortunately I never paid the price for my stupid mistakes.

I'm a girl on tinder who hooks up with guys. I have a 'no oral and condom only' rule until I get to know/trust them. I don't care if they don't agree or like it. I don't want to get stuck with a STD for life because they didn't give a fuck about infecting me for their one night stand enjoyment. Thankfully, I've never had a guy care or argue. They happily went along with my rules because sex.

Fact of the matter is, i was active duty in the Marine Corps. I had zero intention of getting myself into that kind of trouble legally morally or otherwise within my own chain of command believe it or not.

I still sleep well at night being nearly 30 without any kids, and without any diseases.

"before I could answer" doesn't mean yes. You were sexually assaulted by this guy. Thats what you just described. You may have decided to go with it but the fact that he didn't respect your decision says a lot about him. I'm guessing he doesn't have a recent STD test to show you either.

I wouldn't make a big deal about it but I would end it and find someone cool. A real man will respect your decisions about your body and not try to coerce you.

It's actually pretty scary how much more risk there is for the penetrator to infect the penetrated with STDs rather than in reverse.

For a lot of STDs the risk in that direction is actually higher with a condom than without a condom in the other direction. In particular with HIV even if you use a condom you still have a higher chance to be infected as someone who is penetrated than the penetrator has from you if you don't use one.

This is also why STDs are very common in male-male sex communities because in male-male sex one person can either be penetrated or penetrator so a penetrated who gets it can then more easily transfer that. In male-female sex communities or just any where someone is fixed to either being penetrated or penetrator the penetrated act as a buffer in that they will get STDs but they are unlikely to spread it to penetrators.

For straight men it is very difficult, I believe the stats say that even unprotected sex with an infected female partner will result in infection for the male about 1 in ~2500 times. For a female it is about 1 in ~1250 at about two times the likelihood.

Ribbed over magnum was more comfortable because they fit right, a skyn lifestyle that fits about the same as the ribbed trojan is more comfortable because of the difference in material. Latex doesn't transmit heat as well as some non latex condoms, has a more grippy texture that can cause irritation, and has to be thicker to be effective which can numb sensation. A good condom is a game changer.

I think the heat transfer thing is a game changer for me. Feels so much better when you can feel the total warmth, or close to it. Skyn condoms are made of polyisoprene, which is a natural rubber. Not only is it better at transferring heat skin to skin, it’s excellent for people with latex allergies.

Agreed!!! So frustrating! I get a battle 100% of the time, including the “slips” you just described. These men are professional 40-something’s. It’s ridiculous.
I guess they don’t have to deal with stirrups and flimsy gowns, is that the reason?

This guy is a piece of shit, a sentiment that many other comments in here will echo.

One practical thing that may help guys (whether they're a piece of shit or not) stay hard with a condom is to use a larger condom. They're sized by girth, and many guys don't realize this since culture is so length-obsessed. The standard condom is too tight for the average erection, so most guys should at least try a larger size. I recommend Skyn Large - feels great and has no smell/taste.

I don't say this to justify what he did, but instead as a way to inform people of new possibilities and maybe decrease the appeal of barebacking for asshole guys. Overly tight condoms are uncomfortable and can kill boners.

On he other side, my friend dated a guy who continually wore condoms that were too big for him. Guess what? She found them inside of her after he left. If a woman wants you to wear a condom, wear a condom that fits and make sure it stays on the whole time.

Not why can’t guys. Why couldn’t this guy. I’ve never had unprotected sex and you couldn’t pay me enough to have it anytime soon.

Regardless, what he did is assault. I don’t know how much of an actual case you have in terms of legality - but putting himself inside of you, unprotected, without consent, is assault - or worse. And I’m truly sorry that happened. I would move on from this guy and tell him explicitly why I was doing so. He has to learn.

Him and all his buddies are making y'all cis boys look bad. This has happened to me SIX times. Six guys. I'm fucking over it, guys. The good cis men out there need to teach their bros how to have respect and self control. Lord knows they aren't listening to women and bottoms.

All she (the op) has to do is NOT fuck him. Tell him "no". The guy was there for sex, that was his goal. So, if he wanted to do it, then he knew the price of admission. It doesn't matter if she felt shy and didn't want to speak up. Or, she got mad about it after. This guy doesn't sound like he's trying to be her boyfriend, so he won't care beyond getting what he wanted. Psychologically, he suffered no consequences, so he probably thought nothing of it. Some actual couples get caught up in the heat of the moment, and the condom is forgotten. That example happened to me, decades ago.

Bottom line, the person with the boundary, in this case, the op, needs to be clear. Yes, everybody can be mentally foggy when they're caught up in the middle of sex, but people can't worry so much about sounding like a jerk or feeling awkward. Once the line is clear at THAT point, a man can only comply and fuck, refuse and leave, or ignore and rape.

The good cis men out there need to teach their bros how to have respect and self control.

If more girls took action against men who did that instead of acting annoyed and eventually letting it go - those bad cis men wouldn’t do it. Or certainly not as many of them.

The only consequences they’ll face can come from the women they’re involved with.

Edit: Per the OP

I'm going to the Dr. tomorrow to get a script for EC bc ya girl is broke and my insurance has really good prescription coverage. I'm taking advice from my dermatologist and GP and getting on BC asap (to treat acne and my severe PMDD). It's something i should have done ages ago. Also I recognize that STDs are also a concern. He and I both discussed this prior to having sex because catching HPV is a huge concern of mine. We're both clean so most of my anxiety is with getting pregnant

Do you see what she wrote? Her concern is pregnancy/STDs. Not that she was raped or sexually assaulted (which I myself suggested in my initial post)

If all she did was get slightly annoyed with the guy - what lesson did the guy come away with? If she choses to sleep with him again, what lesson does the guy come away with?

What he did was wrong, serious, and could possibly be considered rape or assault, because he did what he did without consent - but if the woman herself (not OP, any woman who finds herself in this situation) just rolls her eyes and moves on - how are these men gonna learn?

Other men can only do so much. These guys have to learn, right then and there in the moment, that what they did was fucked up. Don’t shoot the messenger.

In the chance that one does, she then faves backlash including some who will argue it isn't rape. In fact, in this post, there were some people who argued it wasn't rape. So let's not blame the victims/survivors and instead focus on teaching these mofos to not fucking rape people.

I'm basing what I said on what your initial post which didn't include the last part. You asked why someone couldn't press charges and I said why. ALSO, the mental gymnastics that our brains do to not focus on that. It sometimes takes another person to say, "You were raped. You said no and this asshole still did it." We as a culture need to talk people so they know what rape is and also to read body language as well as words. If someone is pulling away from you and saying "NO", fucking listen. Be observant and my comment still stands because you still said, "Why don't they tell the guys?" We don't because of several different reasons including being afraid that they could do much worst to us.

You’re missing the point. There’s not much the “good cis men” can do. Especially if we don’t know about it. Do you think guys are like “So last night this girl wouldn’t let me fuck raw, but I put it in her anyway. Lol, women amirite?”

Most of us don’t discuss our sex lives to that detail and don’t know how many of our friends are secret assholes who would do that kind of thing. A woman has to tell a man - either immediately when it happens, or afterwards “Hey dude, what you did is wrong. Like technically rape/sexual assault wrong. You didn’t respect my boundaries. I don’t want to see you anymore because of it.”

No one who respects their sexual partner would not also respect your boundaries. Men who can't get over themselves or realize the risk to both of you is extreme for various reasons are not worth sleeping with.

Please get a Plan B morning after pill and he better be paying half or all of it. Even if he pulled out, precum can still contain sperm. Hope you don't get into anything serious with this guy because he doesn't sound like a good partner. I'd leave him after he payed for the Plan B pill.

In answer to your main question, because some guys are selfish dicks who don't care about your boundaries.

I know some will come and say how they can't feel anything with a rubber, they can't stay hard with one, whatever bullshit excuse. I was an escort for a good while, everyone rubbered up or they were shown the door. Did the same in my private life (still do, after a brief test without condoms, my SO and I have decided together to stick with them).

Don't fuck anyone who goes against your boundaries, and enforce them firmly. Your body, your choice. If he doesn't like it, he can go home and wank.

I call bs on the excuses too...and that guy sounds like a grade A jerk only thinking of his own selfish needs and doesnt respect your boundaries. ive been using condoms since my first experience and even to this day with my wife and we have been married 12 years now. I didnt want stds when i was younger and dont want kids now besides birth control has many long term effects on a woman's health.

Just look at this fucking thread. So many guys getting super offended by calling it like it is. Because a lot of guys do this (continue sex without condoms with a BS excuse without taking their partners needs and wants and rights into account) and don’t want to be called rapists...

Just because having sex without condom feels good does NOT mean he should ignore your boundaries. He should still respect your boundaries no matter what. If I was you, I'd realize he is not worth my time and I can't trust him for next time so I'd call him out.

"he pulled out and ejaculated onto my stomach. He ended up getting some on my labia..."

Hey, guess what?!?! The same thing happened to me, I also tried to immediately "clean it off my labia & take a shower." Now we have a 4 year old daughter. Only difference is we had been in a relationship for 9 years when this happened. We weren't trying to have a child, but neither of us were using protection either. We only used the pull out method. Also, a fun little fact: Pre-cum from a man can also get you pregnant!

If you dont want a baby, use birth control & always make sure your birth control isn't expired (that's how I got pregnant with my first child, second child was from no birth control & no protection). Also always use condoms, STD's are on a huge rise once again & you should always feel the need to protect yourself from that shit. If someone doesn't want to protect themselves, then don't have sex with them, the risk is not worth it!! Ever!

Someone EVER stuck themselves inside me after I told them I require a condom but they disregarded it then they're getting punched in the throat. My boundaries and frankly, the fact he threw your concern out the window shows you what hes gonna be like in a long term relationship: selfish.

People suck . I've had a few women that I had to almost have an argument with for me to put a condom on. I made the mistake once when I was younger if not wearing one and spent the next month wondering "what if". Thankfully I went for a STD test and I read in the clear. But it was scary for a while

Ugh this is super frustrating. Obviously not all guys are like this (I've had many very respectful partners), but I've had way too many guys pressure me into not using a condom, whine about using condoms, and then not even bother to do the work of measuring themselves and trying out a different size. One guy I dated did the exact same thing that guy did to you, OP, multiple times. Of course now I kick myself for not breaking up with him over it. But in the moment you always feel like you're the one being the jerk for getting mad about it and beat yourself up about it and why can't dudes just research how to make condoms feel better???

This infuriates me. This guy is a fucking asshole. You said wear a condom, that was the basis of your consent. He took the condom off and therefore your conditional consent is also gone. What he did was absolutely not okay and just because you enjoyed the sex doesnt mean that its any less of a terrible thing for him to have done. This guy is a shitbag, stick to your boundaries. I hope next time this may happen (but not with him because he has already proven to be a shitty person), you get up the courage to tell them to fuck off if they put up even a little bit of a fuss about practicing safe sex

Is it better than anything? Yes, certainly. But don’t go around thinking it’s as good as a condom or pills.

And TL;DR of the sources: in a perfectly executed pullout, 4 or of 100 get pregnant, compared to the 1 out of 100 with other methods. However, the reality is that 22-27 our of 100 gets pregnant from the pullout method. And that is not saying anything about the risk of Pre-cum containing live sperm as well, even if it’s debated.

What?! Every one of your sources confirm that it's very similar in success rates to both condoms and pills in perfect usage as well as typical usage.

How you draw the conclusion that you should use typical usage to make a point when casually withholding the information from typical usage of other methods is baffling.

They are extremely similar and a combination is always your best bet. But to act like pulling out is somehow inherently way more risky for pregnancy is ridiculous.

The main point in favor of condoms should be STI protection in combination with pregnancy protection. But if your only worry is pregnancy, then theres no actual real difference between them and they're both safe enough to not be paranoid and not safe enough to be foolproof.

Did you even read... 4 out of 100 (on perfect execution) is not the same as 1 out of 100 in the other methods... besides, that doesn’t take in the fact that in reality it’s rarely done perfectly, as people get lost in the action. 27 out of 100 is very different from 1/100.

And I’m afraid I do not understand what you mean by:
“How you draw the conclusion that you should use typical usage to make a point when casually withholding the information from typical usage of other methods is baffling.”

Where have I withdrawn any information?

You say very similar. Yes they are, during a specific set of circumstances. So specific in fact, that they often fail. Surely even you must see that 27/100 is very different than 1/100.

And since you want to have the typical usage of other methods as well. Condoms have a rate of 18/100 when not used properly. . That’s still about 10% less than the pullout method. Even when used properly, condone have a rate or 2/100, which is still better than to pullout.

The pill, on the other hand, has a rate of 8/100 in reality. . That’s far superior to the pullout method, and even condoms. Still, out of these three, condoms are still a far better choice than to pullout.

Did YOU even read your sources? 1 in 100 is not the rate of condom failures.

Also your entire argument is ridiculous. Saying pulling out is hard and thus citing that failure rate while ignoring condom usage typical failure rate is irresponsible. It's much easier to fail at using condoms than it is at pulling out. You don't even tend to know you've failed at condom usage unless something obvious like a condom breaking happens. On top you pretty much always finish internally with a condom.

What you are saying is we should ignore condom typical failures and act like people aren't likely to be able to pull out. Sounds more like propaganda to me.

In case you missed it, the condom failure is, in theory, 2/100. In practice, 18/100.

Pills in theory 1/100, in practice 8/100.

Pullout in theory is 4/100, 22-27/100 in practice. The theory part, and your argument that you don’t notice condom failure, is also going from that you expect the Pre-cum to not contain any live sperm. I’ve seen you say it’s fact that precum doesn’t contain sperm, which is possibly false if the male has ejaculated in the last 3-5 days, as sperm can live for as long.

And don’t put words in my mouth. It’s unbecoming of you. What I’ve said is that the pullout isn’t an as reliable method, compared to the more modern ones. I’ve said that in the lack of any other methods, that one works, but you’re putting yourself at a greater risk than if you use a condom or pills.

Now, you’ve liked to say that my sources are contradicting (while they’re not), but you’ve yet to come with any claims or statistics to show for your own arguments. Please show me any data that shows the usage of pullout to be as effective. I’ve shown both theoretical and practical that say the opposite. Now it’s your turn.

How about you stick to the numbers of one source instead of mixing and matching the source that suits you the most?

Let's take planned parenthood, your first link.

Perfect usage:
Pill 99%
Condom 98%
Withdrawal 96%

Typical usage:
Pill 91%
Condom 85%
Withdrawal 78%

These are all the stats you need to post. Everything else you've written is highly biased against withdrawal methods.
Your mentioning precum actually supports this bias. You don't seem to get that sperm can indeed survive for several days, but the precum that contains sperm is in the shaft from the previous ejaculation and gets removed the moment you urinate. The funny thing is that perfect usage of withdrawal doesn't even account for the fact that you can clear your tubes. So perfect usage is likely to be even more effective than 96%.

All of that is besides the point. I literally said pulling out is similar in effectiveness to condoms and the pill. And if you think 96% to 98% or 99% isn't 'similar', then what can I say? We have vastly different opinions.
In fact if you think that, you should stop recommending condoms and the pill too since they are a greater risk than IUDs and Implants.

Bottom line is withdrawal is a perfectly reasonable birth control method. And if you are not capable in following basic guidelines, you should definitely not rely on condoms or the pill either.
In a year of tens of thousands of instances of sex, only 2 more women get pregnant with the condom than with withdrawal. Perfectly acceptable risk and perfectly viable birth control.

I said pill 1/100 (aka 99% effectiveness), condom 2/100 (aka 98%), pullout 4/100 (aka 96%). It's the same numbers I've used all the time, especially later when I used the exact measurements instead of simply saying 1/100.

In practice. you said Pill 91% Condom 85% Withdrawal 78%

I said pill 8/100 (aka 92% but that was math I myself did. Let's say 91, tho it's still far better), condom 18/100 (Aka 82%, which is even lower than what you said) and pullout 22-27/100 (78% - 73%, as two different sources stated different numbers (22 and 27)).

Now, as you can see, I have not altered the numbers. They're pretty true to what you've said, and trying to alter what I've said won't help your cause.

It's not bias. How is it bias, when I mention it as an argument. It's a fact, and therefore mentioned. I have not mentioned any personal feelings about the subject, contrary to you (stating that it's as viable without mentioning any logical leaps or sources).

You don't seem to get that sperm can indeed survive for several days, but the precum that contains sperm is in the shaft from the previous ejaculation and gets removed the moment you urinate.

Now, how come you know this, while doctors still debate this. Several doctors are arguing whether the precum can contain live sperm or not. I am afraid I'm inclined to believe them before you. Then, if you wanna talk any circumstantional arugments, that if the guy does not pee, the sperm will live on, as in the case of oral sex, followed a time later by vaginal intercourse. I am not saying this is the general case, so do not twist my words.

So perfect usage is likely to be even more effective than 96%.

That is biased. They've done research on this, and it's come up to 96% in perfect use. You cannot claim it to be even more, when the perfect usage lands on 96%. That is only a biased argument.

I literally said pulling out is similar in effectiveness to condoms and the pill. And if you think 96% to 98% or 99% isn't 'similar', then what can I say?

And I've debunked that claim. The theoretical argument is almost a moot point by now, as reality doesn't look like that. But let's continue with that shall we? Just for fun. 96% and 98-99% is vastly different when talking large quantities, which we are in this case.

Out of 100 000 women (perfect case scenario):

Using the pill, 1000 will get pregnant.

Using condom, 2000 will get pregnant.

Using pullout, 4000 will get pregnant.

As you can see, that's twice the amount of the women using the condom, and four times as many as using the pill. It can't get any clearer than this. It is not an as effective method, and I cannot debunk it more than I have.

Is it better than nothing? Yes, it is. I have never claimed anything different. But it is not as effective, not even when performed perfectly.

In fact if you think that, you should stop recommending condoms and the pill too since they are a greater risk than IUDs and Implants.

I have not argued about anything about such things. I merely compared it to the pill and the condom. Bringing those thing in is a moot point, and completely unnecessary in this conversation. With that logic, I might as well argue that abstinence is the only safe way. I haven't even said that pullout is a bad contraceptive. I have merely compared it. Now, there's literally nothing more you can say that's not biased or your own personal feelings. I have presented the facts, and you have yet to present any other facts.

Edit; fixed the math. Thank you for pointing it out. Don’t do math when stressed peeps.

With the exception of being in a committed relationship I always wear a condom. The ex had an iud and the one before that was on the pill. A lot of women get bothered that I won’t have sex without a condom.

If he’s irritated by the fact that you want him to wear a condom and he won’t or doesn’t respect that, dump the guy.

Just tell them "if your cool with my herpes, then I'm cool with you not wearing a condom" that should end the convo but will likely stop all sex. But honestly if they're selfish enough to force sex without a condom then the relationship should probably be ended at that point anyway.

I don't like condoms. Objectively I now they are really useful but they just kills the whole thing for me. Maybe it's that it takes away the body-to-body contact for that particular part I do not know.

Having said that, I have absolutely no issue with skipping the penetrative part of sex if the girl isn't on birth control or just doesn't want to. I don't see petting/oral as som sort of "lesser" sex.

He didn't respect your boundaries and that alone should be enough to tell you this guy isn't worth your time. But if you insist on trying to salvage it, make it very clear that under no circumstances is he ever allowed to do what he did again unless you give him explicit permission to do so.

This is I think the only post here that gives constructive advice. Yeah I'm pissed and hurt that he violated my boundaries but I've discussed it with him afterwards and stayed firm in that if he ever pulls that again we're through..... I'm disgustingly in love with this guy and people just telling me to drop him, while kind for looking out for my best interest, isn't a solution I'm pursuing.

When I posted this I meant it more as a vent rather than a "shame me for choosing a bad partner and yell at me about being stupid"

I’ve been a very irresponsible man in my life and somehow escaped my 20s and early 30s without a child or any STD that can be easily tested for (haven’t been able to figure out how to get a herpes test, which causes me a great deal of anxiety, because I know that no symptoms doesn’t mean shit) because of this behavior. I’m not going to say ‘it takes two’ because I also know that it’s a different type of psychological pressure for women.

Which is why I’ve decided to forgo sexual relationships of any kind for the time being while I get my shit together (also coming off of 20 years of substance abuse) and get fully tested and all that.

I hate condoms. They’re just awful and take away so much of the intimate connection for me, and I have had multiple partners say the same thing. It becomes...transactional, if that makes any sense, at least in my warped brain. They take away so much sensation, doesn’t matter what kind. But it’s not an option really in this world, is it? Barring regular testing, birth control, HONESTY (which I feel is a major factor and also a big issue for me regarding sexual behavior), etc etc etc. i’ve decided not to put anyone else in the way of my selfishness for these reasons and for the reasons that you have also described, OP. Just giving some perspective from my insignificant corner of the world.

Just throwing this out there, it's pretty common in this sub to see people asking advice about how to use condoms and how to find ones that fit better. Sure, he crossed a line and honestly you let him cross it but maybe you need to sit down and talk about it like adults and find out if he's having trouble with condoms and if he likes you enough he'll definitely be up for trying out some new ones with you once you identify the issue.

Umm if he just put it inside you without asking thats rape. Its not just the risk of pregnancy but the risk of STD's that you are agreeing to, thats why he needs confirmation.

I know us guys get heated and want it now... but thats really not a very cool act on his part.. I didnt see your age but I am guessing he is a younger guy. Way to pept up on hormones.

Condoms are shit but Herpes and gental warts are worse. This guy needs some schooling. As he probably doesnt put it on with anyone .... so hes a walking std farm or going to be.

My advice to you... tell this guy straight that if its not on then its not on. God I can not wait for the male pill however, in the meantime maybe you should consider a merina ... not because of this event but to protect yourself in case it breaks in the future ... sex is fun and you should be able to enjoy it. Guys dont mature (or get over there hormones) until a little later in life I am not sure how you feel about what happened .. can you talk with your mum or an aunty?

This guy definitely needs to learn some bounderies.

Use the word STOP ... its far more effective than no!

Edit NOT very cool

I hope you dont charge him, not just for him but for you the system is fucking terrible at dealing with this stuff and you will have to re live it over and over again. but this guy definitely needs to learn some bounderies.

I always wore a condom because:
- I lasted longer
- Cleanup was easy
- No pregnancies
- No STDs.

I mean, come on. It's part of the foreplay. Guys who won't wear condoms are like people who claim to be serious motorcyclists but don't wear helmets. It shows you're a fucking amateur with little to no experience.

I actually prefer sex with condoms for the clean up reason (as well as the obvious pregnancy/STD protection). There is nothing worse than having semen dribbling out afterwards and having to do the post sex waddle to the loo to clean up. It just ruins the moment for me more than pausing to put a johnny on.

You're welcome! I just finished my 3 shot series. It was really expensive but totally worth it. Depending on your age and where you live you may be eligible to get it for free. Definitely ask your doc.

As someone who has legitimate issues with condoms let me just say I've never shamed a woman into unprotected sex and I suffer through it

I usually don't finish with condoms and have to take them off and be finished with a hand

No exceptions, including Skyns which this sub circle jerks. They're just as bad as any other condom

With all that being said I've heard female condoms are significantly better and yet no one ever is willing to try them. In my anecdotal experience I've also never been with a woman who carried her own condoms either- male or female

It's really easy to shame men for not wanting to use condoms while also expecting us to be 100% responsible for supplying them and I think that is really shitty

I dont carry condoms, but i have my own supply in my bedside table. Several varieties and sizes, including latex free (i prefer these).
I have tried the female condom years ago and found them very loud (think rustling like a crisp packet lol) and fiddly. That said i havent written them off, and if my hypothetical partner had an issue with male condoms I'd be willing to give them another go.

I am also always on the pill, despite not being sexually active. I would much rather take 100% responsibility for providing contraception (condoms and pill) as it gives me peace of mind knowing ive done all i can to stay safe, which in turn helps me to relax and enjoy the experience with my partner more.

That's just me though and i have had more experiences than i can count like OP. As I've matured ive become more firm and stuck to my guns. No protection, no PIV sex.

Maybe im misunderstanding you, but nowhere have i written off condom issues for guys?
In fact id say i do the opposite by having a variety of brands, sizes etc. I have a weird reaction to certain brands so you could say that i have issues with them as well.

I have had situations where a guy hasnt wanted to use a condom, so no PIV sex was had. We just utilised other methods of pleasing one another which IMO was equally as satisfying as sex.

You'd have thought with all the medical and technological advances we'd have created a better range and/or design of condoms. I guess the problem is that everyone's different and what works for one doesnt work for another etc. There has to be something better out there.

I totally have the right to want to use condom and it s bad for your partner not to use it if you said no but personal experience (M20) condom greatly diminish my pleasure and sometimes even hurt me ... a lot.
So for me its vaginal penetration without a condom or no penetration at all.
The girl have the right to want cobdom for the penetration and i have the right not to penetrate her. That dosen t mean i dont want to have sex or to plzasure my partner but it hurt me too much.

I would advice you to searche the rigjt size and type of condom for your partner , try different things or even fzminine condom (never tried)

Personally, if I was single id use a condom every single time. But once we are exclusive, both tested for stds and ensured that my partner is on birth-control id want to lose the condoms asap. If my partner is not down for that then we arent compatible. There is no comparison to with one vs without, it is just worlds better.

My boyfriend has trouble staying hard with condoms on and his only concern was that I would be impatient about it, because I am lol.

I have an IUD now but we made do just fine using condoms even when I was on the pill (because I was not very good with taking it at the same time) because I was NOT taking that risk! And he knew that and respected it!

This is not necessarily a "why do guys..." issue, it's "why did HE..." and the answer is that he doesn't respect your boundaries. The sex might be good and you might feel like you're overreacting but you're not.

Seriously. You gave him consent with a condom, he can't just change that and put YOU at risk just because he got frustrated.

I can't with this. Settle for a blowjob. That blows my mind (hahahaha). The girls I've been with would never say, "I don't want to fuck, would you just settle for a blowjob?" I need to meet these types of women lol.

But yeah, that was a shitty move on his part. I hope you talked to him about what he did. That was disrespectful and uncalled for.

I've had this issue more than 50% of the time too. It's insane! I am on the pill but STDs are a fucking thing! I have actually had guys stop seeing me because I insisted on condoms. So presumably there are women out there who willing to go raw with someone they barely know. I can't believe how stupid people are about this.

Well, for the same reason girls don't understand why some guys don't like sex with condoms. "Why do [insertgender/race/etc.] do _______?" never turns out well, it's monolithic and leads to sweeping generalizations. It would be less toxic to ask "Why don't some people respect that others don't want to have sex without condoms?". And that's a fair question. I've known a few women who became visceral when I reached for a condom and we wound up not having sex. To me, a condom is pretty important. I don't want kids, and I don't want no funky infections.

Dude. I had two guys who tried to do this. The first i broke up with like the next day it bothered me so much the other i didn't stay with either as he continued to not respect boundries and get more pushy about it among other things.
If you really wanna try working things out with him tell him to masterbate with condoms on to get used to the sensation or to try a different brand. Trojan ultra thin and Lifestyles Skyn brands are great for feeling good while also offering good protection.

That's always what I've heard. At my campus when they hand out condoms they always always make sure to mention that the flavoured ones are not meant for penetrative sex, never really asked why but I assumed it was something like getting an infection... will google and report back lol

Stop making sexist statements if you don't want people like /u/biothickness calling you out. I understood what you meant with your title but not everyone did. Replace ''guys'' with a race for example and you'll see how wrong you are.

I think a lot of guys prefer the feeling of sex without a condom, because that way you get more sensation. I also think that a lot of guys find it hard to control themselves when they're super horny, so if you give them an opportunity they'll probably go for it.

But saying that, it's still unacceptable for a guy to do anything sexual to you without consent - so if any guy does that to you again (goes inside of you without a condom when you never said it was okay) you should try to remove that person from your life, or atleast stop sleeping with them.

For me, I'm honestly fine with using a condom - and I kinda prefer it just because it makes me more comfortable knowing that we're both relatively safe.

Yeah, that's rape. If a partner isn't going to respect your boundaries, stop that shit and don't let them continue to argue. They can fuck the fuck off. It's not just about pregnancy, its also about STDs, and if they can't see that, well, another respect issue.

I mean, I sometimes struggle to stay hard when wearing a condom, but what he did is totally unacceptable. He violated your boundaries and didn't respect your autonomy. You could arguably say he assaulted you (some jurisdictions will accept that argument, others won't).

If he couldn't stay hard in a condom, he could have gone with mutual oral or something else instead. You can't control how your penis reacts. You can absolutely control where you put it and whether you're being respectful.

I'm uncircumcised and have a very long foreskin and sex with a condom is not very pleasurable. So BC and both tested clean has been my preference. I would never do what this guy did and if a girl wanted me to use a condom, a bj or hand job would be just fine instead of PIV sex.

I'm a guy who doesn't like condoms, HOWEVER, until consent to not use a condom has been established he should be wearing one the whole time, every single time.
There's reasons for not liking condoms but there's no reason to disregard your lack of consent.

You didn't ask for that. You specifically stated you would only use a condom and that is it. It doesn't matter if you do or you don't take b.c., he still did that to you anyways. I'm allergic to b.c. but I still make sure everything is safe as possible. This guy is the opposite of that. If he doesn't care about your own well being, then he is not worth it.

Fucking STDs are more of a problem than pregnancy! You can fix a pregnancy in many ways. Many STDs are for life. The CDC don’t care if you get pregnant. They do care if you catch a nasty STD. You also cannot infect people with pregnancy. Jesus fucking Christ.

Yes things feel different with a condom. However claiming you went soft because of it is bullshit and kind of childish. As a guy myself I have always used condoms, not only for the protection of the girl, but also for myself. Not all guys are idiots you know.

This sounds like you are hooking up with guys you don't really know and who don't respect you. Also, I don't know why women mention not being on birth control for the reason they need a condom. Disease is always reason #1. There are ways to handle an unplanned pregnancy but some will provide a lifetime of suffering and regret. Any guy with a clear head on his shoulders will use a condom without you even having to ask. If you need to ask and argue, you have made a poor choice in who to have sex with.

When he put his penis back in and you ‘enjoyed it’ might it have been better to give a firm ‘no’. He misread your signals and probably thought it was just something you said initially and now you were in the mood, the ice was broken, and you were down.

It's perfectly reasonable to ask. I regularly get the request from women that say "I can't get off from penetration, do you mind eating me out instead?" And I do. There's nothing wrong with the option, people are different and sex should be enjoyable.

Of course, didn't mean to sound like I was arguing the point of people requesting oral sex in general. In that case, penetration would still happen at some point at least some of the time, which OP would then require that a condom be worn.

That isn't what was suggested. I was saying that it would be incredibly rude to deny penetration at all because you don't like condoms, and then suggest receiving oral as a "compromise", effectively making it so that you do no work or provide anything for your partner but you still get to climax.

No. Not every guy acts that way. Sometimes people pick the wrong type of partners. I have been guilty of this, myself. It's not victim blaming. The op is not a victim. She is just an adult who made a choice she regrets. (She continued sex with a man she knew had removed his condom) Everyone has done things they regret. Maybe this can be a learning/growth experience for both her AND the guy she was with?

I’m the same way but yeah I just get her to checked for STDs and talk about our previous partners as well as regular STD checks. I can’t cum in a condom and I wish I could just to save myself the trouble, but if I can’t wear one or she has STDs I just don’t have sex with her

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