Transcript: Sens. Chris Dodd and Lindsey Graham

June 21, 2009

Page 8 of 16

You know, the difference between the illustrations that you
showed of revolution in our times and Iran is they were secular
revolutions. Iran is not. When you talk about regime change, or
you're talking about, well, Mousavi, we think the election was stolen,
rather than Ahmadinejad, or you are talking about Khamenei and the
mullahs -- that's a Muslim country. And I think for the foreseeable
future, certainly in our lifetime, it's going to remain that.

So for us to say somehow we can help change it in a democratic
sense, is not possible.
ROBERTS: But he has to stay on top of it a little better, I
think. Because Khamenei was, I think, undermined himself.

STEPHANOPOULOS: The supreme leader of Iran.

ROBERTS: The supreme leader, the ayatollah, undermined himself,
in the speech that he gave on Friday supporting Ahmadinejad. And the
fact that people continued to protest after that speech is very
telling. And I think, you know, the president saying that there
really wasn't that much difference between Ahmadinejad and Mousavi,
is, you know -- might have been true then, but it might be different
now, because the people do have an effect, and -- the people in the
streets.

And I'd be very curious, but you didn't answer the second part of
George's question, about what are the people saying about America's
role? Are they saying we should be doing more?

KELLER: Well, first of all, there was clearly an Obama influence
in the campaign, at least in the trappings, the symbols and so on.

STEPHANOPOULOS: "Yes, we can," was the slogan of Ahmadinejad,
right?

KELLER: Right, and change. Change was all over the place.

KELLER: And yes, they would -- people were crying out for a
little bit of moral support. Where that leads and what they would
want beyond just attention and recognition, I think they feel that the
outside world acknowledging what's going on there and not letting it
slip from our view, empowers them. More than that, I didn't hear
anybody ask it.

REICH: I think regardless of what happens there, George, even if
the powers of oppression are victorious, Iran is not going to be the
same. And there is going to be an opening for the United States, that
was not there before. I was very interested that the supreme leader,
the Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, actually last Friday, made Britain the
enemy, not the United States.

ROBERTS: Right.

REICH: That was telling. Also, I don't think any of us should
underestimate the power of Obama's Cairo speech a couple of weeks ago.
It had an electrifying effect across the Middle East, particularly
among the young.

DONALDSON: That speech, which set a new tone. We're going to
have to deal with whatever regime emerges in Iran. If we say Mousavi
would be better, I think that's probably true, for Iran. But we're
going to have to deal with Ahmadinejad, if, in fact, he remains
president. And I think to say that somehow, we've got to crack down,
in the George W. Bush-type style is wrong.

WILL: The reason we care about Iran is that they have a decades-
long program, nearing fruition, of achieving a nuclear weapon. And
there's no reasons to believe that Mr. Mousavi is opposed to a nuclear
Iran and lots of reasons to believe that he's for it.