Part of an email from a friend (whose partner is in hospital in Intensive Care---for unrelated reasons---in the middle of it all!):

But as usual with Londoners, we're all planning our travel routes to avoid the burnt out cars and looted shops..."Hmmm, 276 will be diverted but I bet the 425 is still running..." Those of us who aren't clambering out of JD Sports carrying armfuls of sports gear are actually all being rather friendly and helpful to each other...especially in the travel advice area...blitz spirit?

I've read something that suggests the police are having trouble containing this because it's opportunistic rather than organised - it flares up semi-spontaneously and randomly. They can't focus their resources because they don't know where it's going to happen.

I think you might be drawing a long bow re apportioning blame on Piggy for the Queen Street riot. As I recall (in blunt terms) it was hot, many people were pissed (exacerbated by the heat), the police were being arseholes and DD was being a smart arse. Also Lange had already been PM for 5 months by that stage.

I think the previous five or six years were relevant as a social backdrop, and I thought so at the time. Not least the police culture of the times -- Gideon Tait's team policing units have a lot to answer for.

Alcohol was an issue, but the main cause was the staggeringly inept policing -- responding to a minor disturbance away from the crowd by closing the exit to Queen Street with a line of riot police then ordering the concert to stop wasn't just stupid, it was arrogant.

I suspect that whatever degree of coordination is present has something to do with the anarchist groups, who have always been fairly organised.

I reckon that's entirely post-facto. Militant anarchists might feel good about this, but there's little to suggest that there's been anything that follows their methods. No black-bloc style work, very little anti-capitalist intent actually on the streets.

Or, to put it another way, by the police failing in their duty of care towards those in their custody. It is largely a failure of police attitudes, of them not giving a shit.

I did intend to imply that in my response, yes. But I also wasn't too impressed by the implication in Vangams original post that it was all a variant on the old 'falling down a flight of stairs' trick.

And I hope you'll both excuse me if I'm a little snappy - I'm a little on edge because I'm in the same position as Craig, having family and friends living in several of the areas now getting mentioned.

Witness David Francis reports rioting in Camberwell Green, South London. He says he was punched in the face by "what felt like very reals pearls wrapped around a masked rioters' fist."

I reckon that's entirely post-facto. Militant anarchists might feel good about this, but there's little to suggest that there's been anything that follows their methods. No black-bloc style work, very little anti-capitalist intent actually on the streets.

Agreed, but also it's not out of line with what Russell was suggesting. The modus operandi of a lot of the Anarchist groups (and also Socialist Worker) in the UK was to piggyback on the single-issue causes that they knew would be popular and attract numbers. There would be large numbers at Anti-Fascist and Anti-Globalisation* demos such as 'reclaim the streets'. They weren't involved in the organising or stewarding in any way: they just turned up and looked for opportunities. The leafleting is entirely typical in that respect, and about as organised as they got.

*Yes, I know anti-globalisation isn't a single-issue subject. But that's an argument for another day.

I deliberately brought up computer game warfare, because the organization in there is always totally anarchic. Essentially, small teams self-organize, a pack of idiots tend to zerg up, not realizing that the smaller teams can pretty much dictate where those packs go simply by communicating effectively.

I reckon that’s entirely post-facto. Militant anarchists might feel good about this, but there’s little to suggest that there’s been anything that follows their methods. No black-bloc style work, very little anti-capitalist intent actually on the streets.

Fair enough, sorta. I recall the local anarchists always being very keen to run the police, and to organize to do so, and I do think that's where that flyer will have come from. But otoh, Twitter says anarchist groups have been helping locals put out fires in Hackney.

I recall the local anarchists always being very keen to run the police, and to organize to do so, and I do think that's where that flyer will have come from.

Yes, but they would generally put themselves in a situation (that someone else had organised) where they thought they could engineer a confrontation, rather than organise the underlying situation itself.

Essentially, small teams self-organize, a pack of idiots tend to zerg up, not realizing that the smaller teams can pretty much dictate where those packs go simply by communicating effectively.

You're right. However, I'll go on record now and state that I will be very surprised if it turns out that there are small hardcore teams operating in the shadows, effectively attempting to carry out their agenda by zerging the packs of idiots. I think it's a lot more spontaneous and disorganised than that.

My favourite comment (currently attracting 3500 likes) on the riots so far is from the Facebook page for TV show Ashes to Ashes: "Right Raymondo. Fire up the Quattro. London's calling."You can just imagine Gene Hunt pushing rudely past some woman, downing a quick pint then shooting off to the scene shouting obscenities. That'll sort it.The Aotea Square riot was sparked initially by some friends from Warkworth who were urinating off the canopy over the walkway next to the Post Office at 24 Wellesley St. When the police tried to get them down the crowd noticed and turned around. I was sitting on the statue in the middle of the square and had already seen gang members fighting in front of the stage earlier. There were initially a tiny number of police - about 20 and only about 60 maximum at the height of the riot. Afterwards every inch of the square was covered in broken bottles. I took a bus from Britomart to Onehunga at 9pm and was almost the only one on the bus not clutching looted cameras, clothing, stereos etc. It was my first concert - DD Smash were amazing!