While looking for something in the archives I came across a chat between what appeared to be some of the principals in the company and some players. One of the chats was about new business and how it's hard to get new players to stay. Most try it and drop out. Well, there was also talk about how new and returning players are targeted by those of you who've been around forever because we're easy marks. I've only been back for about 3 months now, and in almost every arena, my team, or one of my warriors is "the most targeted." It's hardly a surprise since I'm kind of learning the game all over again. Had I not played back in 1986 when EVERYONE was figuring out how to play, I would have ZERO idea how much fun things can be. I don't know for certain that some of the things I'm going to mention either HAVE changed, haven't changed, are being changed, etc... and I don't know if something I might mention could be considered, but I would like it very much if it COULD be considered.

So, here goes...

Back in 1986, the one minute fight was a RARE RARE occurrence. The volume of things which happened and the variety of what I read back then was VASTLY superior to what I read today. Back then, my best character was a TP and his fights REGULARLY lasted 7+ minutes. I think in his first 12 fights, there was ONE 4 minute fight, and every other fight lasted 7 minutes+. Since he's been back, the same fighter has had 3 1 minute fights, 1 2 minute fight, and 3 3minute fights. That's it. IF I decide to stop playing, THIS will be one of the major reasons why. Paying $1.50 for these is seeming less and less worthwhile. No, I'm NOT exaggerating about how long the fights took back then either. I still have the fight sheets, as extremely yellow as they are.

Additionally, that TP, in the past, used to do things like back flips to attack his opponent from behind, due a twirling parry followed by an attack with the weapon in the other hand (in what would be a riposte). Nowadays, the same fighter is flat footed. He can't seem to do any of the jumps he used to. He used to be nearly unhittable. Now he gets hit almost with ease, as though he's completely forgotten how to fight over those years.

So, that makes me not really want to play nearly as much anymore. (This is not an indictment of those who like things JUST AS THEY ARE! It's only my opinion). I kept thinking, well, this is just a bad string of fights... SOON he'll be back in the 7 and 9 minute duels I loved to read so much, but obviously that's not going to happen. I'm only guesing, of course, but I'm thinking this was done by RSI to save paper and postage costs, to which I say CHARGE ME ANOTHER $0.25 a fight and give me back my long exciting fights!!

Of course, there's always the possibility the people I'm playing against have all become SO VERY GOOD/Knowledgeable and I am SO VERY BAD/Just learning, that I can't seem to force these long fights anymore, but the warrior's inability to do many of the advanced things I used to read all the time (He's an ADV Exp. in Parry, ADV. Exp. in Riposte and Expert in Defense, and was that after 12 fights).

IF IT IS because I'm just so bad and inexperienced, AND new Duel2 players just aren't staying very long anymore because they are picked on and targeted, then I have a suggestion I believe would change that.

There should be NEWBIE, intermediate, and advanced Arenas. Put all player accounts which have fewer than, say, I dunno... 200 fights? 100 fights? into a new Arena. As soon as THAT ACCOUNT has accumulated enough fights, graduate those teams into Arenas filled with Intermediate players and maybe players who are returning after a long (over 5 years?) layoff. For the returning players, especially if they have, say, 500+ fights, give them a few months to get re-accustomed to the game, or maybe give them 100 fights, then put them in with the big boys. Once somebody crosses the, say, 750 fight threshold (that's for ALL accounts added together), or maybe 1000 fights, then graduate them to the big boy arenas as well.

Keeping Newbies fighting newbies will keep people from being scared off after going 3-12 in their first 3 weeks.

I would suggest the same thing for ADM. Have more than ONE ADM arena category. Have ADM arenas for managers with different experience levels. I know, should I decide to play on to when I finally manage to graduate someone, I will AGAIN be overwhelmed in ADM as I'll have no CLUE what I'm doing in there my first many turns. I mean, let's face it... Experience means something. Jorja gets 3 new warriors after graduating 3 and they step all over my guys, DESPITE us both having new characters. This HAS to do with experience and knowing things like "how to spot your characters fav. weapon" (I've been told to look for more critical hits... now if I only knew what a critical hit looks like), knowing what offensive level is best for which warrior type, etc...

Lastly, as someone who IS playing in 81 (obviously I volunteered, mainly because I always play 5 fighters and don't like it when oithers don't), I've noticed just exactly how much more fun it is to play in a packed Arena as it is to play in the abandoned ones. Well, if they resorted things by experience, they could contract the entire place.... If an arena has fewer than, say, 7, maybe 10 active managers, it's absorbed by another arena. If you had stables in both, you'd be allowed to continue to play them both either by having one move to a full arena in which you AREN'T playing, or even by allowing you to run both in the same arena, just not letting your fighters from either stable fight one another.

Yes, I realize this would be a radical change in the game, but as a relative newbie who has returned to a game which now returns about 1/3rd of what it did when I first started playing, both in fight length, Duelmaster articles (it used to be a privilege to write those. Now I've only seen maybe 4 or 5 DM articles TOTAL in 3 months playing 7 arenas), AND the obvious growth of my fighters, easily being able to see as they get better. Unfortunately, as it is now, the fight with my Adv. Expert/Adv. Expert/Expert TP reads EXACTLY the same as my brand new warriors, oh, except for the fact that someone was able to sneak a spear UNDER my successful parry, but that was someone else's warrior doing something different, not mine.

I know this sounds like a rant, but it's not meant to be. I'm being honest when I'm trying to point out the things I've noticed and why I'm starting to NOT enjoy a game I used to ADORE 25 years ago. I was so excited about getting back, but if nothing changes, if my warriors still look the same after 20 fights as they did after 1, then I'll probably let my account run out, and not continue, which would be a shame for me, because I was really really looking forward to playing that game from 25 years ago...

The_Chief

I mean, there's a REASON

Visionst01ArchMaster Poster

Joined: Oct 03, 2005
Posts: 1567
Location: South Carolina

Posted:
Sun Apr 17, 2011 3:04 am

Isn't DM93 a Newbie arena?

They closed arenas once and from what I have heard it did not go well. So I doubt they would ever close or merge any arenas.

Last edited by bubbaganoosh on Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:34 am; edited 1 time in total

GreekGuyGrandmaster Poster

Joined: Aug 05, 2002
Posts: 737
Location: Tennessee Yeehaw!!!!

Posted:
Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:27 am

I dont have my fights from the old days so I dont even remember those things. Fights have gotten shorter I'm sure and that has more to do with everyone knowing how to design and run offensives very well. As for picking on newbies I doubt many of us target them on purpose. If a team is in my arena there really is no way to know if the manager is new or experienced unless they announce themselves in the newsletter. Now if they do and I'm paying attention I would not go after them and I agree no one should target them. There are arenas that they would be better off in for sure with managers that would absolutely help them. I too miss the articles from the old days. I think the reason many arent written now is that managers want to keep their competitive advantage over others. If you figure out a great setup and set of numbers to run a pr in adepts are you going to tell everyones else and lose that advantage? Hard decision. As for arena closures they did try that and got a huge backlash as it was okay to close someone elses favortie arena, juts not mine right It would make sense to have more full arenas but I dont see them closing any, which leaves us with getting more players...somehow. Try to come to a FTF as thats the best place to gain info and get your excitement flowing
I'd say come to 32 but those guys kill too much, find a good andorian arena with the Consortium in it. he's always helpful
TGG

The ConsortiumArchMaster Poster

Joined: Nov 23, 2002
Posts: 8899
Location: on the golf course, in the garden, reading, traveling, and now Consulting

Posted:
Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:01 am

A great subject and post by an "old newbie"!

Some thoughts in return ....................

1. There ARE certain arenas where the newbie is not picked on, and, rather, is cherished. Try DM11, Aruak City, the heart and soul of Andoria. And as already mentioned, there is an arena DM93 specifically for newbies.

2. The newbies-get-picked-on was a great problem and discussion back in the day (very early) too, as it was thought very appropriate to pick on the easy mark. (Often an argument between Darkholmians and Andorians) This is not new

3. We still have quite a few "longer fights". It is true that managers know better how to attack/handle scummy warriors nowadays and that shortens the average fight. We doubt seriously that RSI has decided to make normal fights shorter to save paper/postage. However, most managers, along with RSI, agree that printing paper, and having to read it, for 100+ minute fights is sorta deplorable. Keep in mind that we Consortiumites have had five fights go 32,000+ minutes! We don't want the paper, nor do we want to take the day to read one of those fihts!

4. We ALL are glad to have you back to play DM. Most managers now are somewhat acquainted and friendly, but still very competitive, and tere is massive data/reading to provide assistance available on line to anyone in our game.

5. If the fight reading is so important, one can add to that pleasure by filling out the forms for one's own warriors to spew out certain statements at the appropriate times. We do this for all our arena warriors. It does add to the reading pleasure.

6. The game is more of a tournament and prize game nowadays than it is an arena game. We find this very sad as we revel in the arena process. But the tournaments are great fun and excitement and we recommend that evreyone attend a FACE. It is an ultimate rush.

It's possible you were playing before the TP nerf, but not sure. In either case, your TP's really shouldn't be having 1 minute fights, even now.

There is a newbie arena, DM 93, and you can request to put a team there to practice (for 10 turns), but the problem is that there are very little newbies in them.

I would announce that you are a new/returning player in the newsletters and most people will leave you alone. (And there are a lot of people in DM 81 who will help out if they see a team bullying you)

The good news is that you can spend a little bit of time from being "awful" at this game to being average in one afternoon. I'd spend some time learning/re-learning the charts on Terrablood.com and how the work.

Chances are that the warriors you ran 25 years ago are just not competitive in today's game. You'll probably have to DA most of those warriors and/or retire the original team and try again.

AragornGrandmaster Poster

Joined: Mar 07, 2004
Posts: 503

Posted:
Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:51 am

*dup*

Last edited by Aragorn on Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:52 am; edited 1 time in total

AragornGrandmaster Poster

Joined: Mar 07, 2004
Posts: 503

Posted:
Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:51 am

I can't add much to the previous very good advice. Coming from a manager who has had many gaps of inactivity between twenty plus years, I believe if I can TC anyone can TC. I've rarely gone through big spending tactics although occasionally I will splurge. Study helps best and when I've needed something clarified most managers have been more than helpful to steer me out of the ditch however I still stubbornly steer for the ditch with experimentation I find fun. Just have fun, that's all that matters to me at least. Keep expectations low and when you do well it's that much better.

KidArcaneGrandmaster Poster

Joined: Apr 26, 2003
Posts: 522
Location: San Antonio, TX

Posted:
Sun Apr 17, 2011 2:42 pm

I played in the early 90's, then left after a few years. Came back maybe 18-20 months ago. Different. Very different from then. MUCH different feel from the late 80's, I'm sure.

1st-- There's no sense repeating all the good advice already given. I urge you to accept it in the spirit intended (genuinely helpful) and never hesitate to ask questions. I haven't found any churlish, ugly personalities (yet) that would grind their heel into you -- on the sands or in the personals. I seem to remember a few in the 90's. THAT's changed, anyway.

2nd--Opinion: I think that players stopped writing prolifically because (a) there is no reason to -- the forums provide a means of readily exchanging ideas or insights or questions; and (b) nobody wants to sound like an idiot. I've read a few old, old newsletters and reviewed my cache of DM articles from "the experts" of yester-year, and it is embarrassing! Many of the dictates of style and philosophies of design are just not valid anymore, not if you want to win consistently. Since most managers playing now have access to the necessary charts and articles (and some have decades of playing experience and numbers-crunching to draw upon as well) there just isn't any point to the "how-to" articles in the newsletters.

3rd-- I agree that the tourney fighting aspect of the game has... (ahem) somewhat soured it. I play exclusively in 81 now, and I'm hoping that soon I can lobby to have another arena "tourney free" so that 81 can be split in half, or at least I'll be able to run two teams in that sort of an arena. I enjoy it. However, we're in the minority here; it is what it is.

4th-- Yeah, I can remember reading fights where the guys did amazing things. Very fun reads. But things change. Scum exist, but they are not the dominant species any longer. There have been many "tweaks" to the game in the past two decades, or so I've read. ADM fights seem to still have the choreography you're talking about, but the average fight, not so much. Some of this is undoubtedly at the RSI/programmer's end, and some of this is based on the idea that many of the managers playing now (most, actually) have at least a decade of experience in designing and running a warrior within the structure of this game.

Finally-- Remember it's a computer-generated numbers game. Not everything is absolute, but one can play the odds, if one knows what they are to begin with.... and many managers (not me) do seem to have a clue about the odds. Their designs and strategies work well; the fights are over faster; there's little flourish embedded in the description unless one stumbles upon a warrior's favorite weapon. It's still fun for me, but it's not what it was, that's all true. I hope you find pleasure in the game, especially as it now has this internet forum aspect. Without this part, I wouldn't have stuck around as long as I have. I remember writing letters to various managers (always had at least two letters out at any time) and exchanging ideas and information, learning more about them, growing long-distance friendships. It's a different world, my friend.

p.s. Oh, and I almost forgot -- check out the player links and get yourself copies of the latest charts and information. There are some interesting articles out there in the forums, too. You can always start a thread by asking something as simple as: How DOES one run a P-Strike?

_________________"Don't make me destroy you." -- Darth Vader

_Buri_Grandmaster Poster

Joined: Nov 07, 2010
Posts: 861
Location: Asgard

Posted:
Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:25 pm

Managerr wrote:

Chances are that the warriors you ran 25 years ago are just not competitive in today's game. You'll probably have to DA most of those warriors and/or retire the original team and try again.

The warriors I ran 10 years ago are not competetive! At least not in the tournaments, they do OK in the arenas for the most part. My 2nd turn back, I DA'd 4 on my main team. Truth to tell, I probably would have DA'd them 10 years ago too.

the game has changed IMMENSELY over the last 25 years. more than you can imagine. design theory. strategy. style vs. style. the competition is as stiff as it's ever been. unfortunately, you seem to be running what Manager would refer to as "suboptimal designs" it's going to take time to become acclimated to the game as it is in 2011 when you haven't played in 25 years.

my advice is to take the time to develop relationships within the DM community. these boards are a great place to start. read the articles. read the posts. scour the forums for nuggets of intel. but above all, you have to realize and accept that the 7+ minute fights of yesteryear are not the rule anylonger, but the exception.

it's going to take time. you have to take your lumps. pay your dues, so to speak. but i urge you to hang in there. even though these people on the boards are in direct competition with each other, we all talk and discuss the game and try to help each other out- within reason. heh

- mike

Well, the game of 25 years ago is the game I enjoyed. The game of today is one, as pointed out below, I'm really not going to enjoy, and it pains me more than I can write to find out it's the case.

I've read the boards, scoured Terrablood, redesigned warriors, consulted, and no matter what I do, my fights read the same at fight 7 or 8 that they do at fight 1, someone with adv exp/adv. exp./exp reads exactly like that of someone's first fight.

My greatest pleasure in the game came from watching my warriors develop, watching them learn a new skill which was obvious in the read. Hell, I don't even mind losing 10 in a row if my fighter is getting better, and I can read that he's getting better.

I'm just someone that reveled in that part of the game. It doesn't mean you have to enjoy that part of the game, or that it should be important to you, but I can guarantee you for people who are playing for the very first time, seeing only that their guy has gained some skill in the end, and not seeing it reflected in the fights, is why people leave. Warriors used to visually develop, and again, you used to get 7 or 8 minutes for your $1.50 (and if it's really about paper and postage, then send me my results via email. I'd prefer that anyway). If those days are truly gone, then there is truly no reason for me to stay, as that's WHY I loved the game. Again, please understand this is my opinion.

They don't have to close down arenas... (though, if nothing else, maybe combining them would be good... Allow fighters to travel--make it so there's a home field advantage and you get some bonus if fighting in your home area), but they really do need to find a way to separate beginners from veterans. I've scoured Terrablood and all the charts, DA'ed lots of fighters, but this was supposed to be a game of mystery where you learned as you went on. The charts, knowing all they mean, etc... has actually taken away from my pleasure, not added to it.

I'm sorrier than I can say, but if it's true one can no longer watch a fighter develop (that is, if a fighter who's the best of his style in the arena has his fights read precisely the same as fighters fighting their first fight), then the game holds no interest for me, and with what today's gamers look for, it will hold little interest for them.

If they want to lengthen fights, that would be easy to do.... triple the hit points and half the damage of the weapons. Hell, it should be easy to show fighter progress as well through reading the fights, but that's not there either. As I see it, and yes, it's just my opinion, the game of today is inferior to the product put out 25 years ago. I expected it would be a better game today, with even more differences between the way the fighters read, not a lesser one, with far less difference between the way the fights read (Again, all opinion).

Last edited by The_Chief on Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:26 pm; edited 1 time in total

The_ChiefUnchartered Poster

Joined: Mar 17, 2011
Posts: 19

Posted:
Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:06 pm

Managerr wrote:

It's possible you were playing before the TP nerf, but not sure. In either case, your TP's really shouldn't be having 1 minute fights, even now.

There is a newbie arena, DM 93, and you can request to put a team there to practice (for 10 turns), but the problem is that there are very little newbies in them.

I would announce that you are a new/returning player in the newsletters and most people will leave you alone. (And there are a lot of people in DM 81 who will help out if they see a team bullying you)

The good news is that you can spend a little bit of time from being "awful" at this game to being average in one afternoon. I'd spend some time learning/re-learning the charts on Terrablood.com and how the work.

Chances are that the warriors you ran 25 years ago are just not competitive in today's game. You'll probably have to DA most of those warriors and/or retire the original team and try again.

1. I'm sure the TP WAS fought pre-nerf, but even so, it's not like the guy's running out of energy in 1 minute... in fact, he's never run out of energy. He was 10-2 25 years ago, again, with 1 fight lasting fewer than 7 minutes. He once had a 14 minute fight where the read was EPIC! with all kinds of wonderful maneuvers. Since he's been back, ALL HIS FIGHTS COMBINED have taken 14 minutes, and I'm playing exactly as people advise on Terrablood, and according to Terrablood, he should be having TREMENDOUS success (DFT 21, 15Wit, 7 SIZ), and as I mentioned, expert+ in 3 categories... and the guy gets hit, let's see.. in his most recent fight, he was hit on the 2nd swing, end of fight... weapons well suited. INC. Elusive-INC Quick. This is a guy who in his first 12 fights was hit all of 4 times, in all 12 fights combined. If they nerfed this particular TP, they've done so to the point where I don't enjoy playing.

Why is nobody mentioning all the wonderful incredible maneuvers that have seemingly disappeared?

2. 10 practice turns isn't enough. Again, it should be something like 100 or 200 fights. And the reason Newbies aren't sticking around is they aren't being able to READ IMPROVEMENT IN THEIR WARRIORS IN THE FIGHTS!!, and because the fights are too short. THAT is why I'll be leaving, unless it changes in the next few months, which I doubt it will. I have friends who fight whom I still email. If they ever change it BACK to where one can actually SEE said improvement, and a fighter's FIRST fight doesn't read like his 10th, and his 7th or 8th, and his 8th doesn't read like his 15th, and so on, and the fights last longer than 1 to 3 minutes on a regular basis, then they'll tell me and I'll come back with bells on. If not, there's no reason for me to stay.

3. I don't really want to be "left alone" so to speak, at least not in 81. I GET that it's the toughest in the Kingdom (4 of my 5 original fighters have been killed, and not through the DA, within the first 5 turns). However, there really SHOULD be a permanent place for newbies to fight until they've becomed WELL-SEASONED. Also, in the original literature, I never read word 1 about a newbie arena. I'd have been in there SOOOO fast, but if I'd have been kicked out in 10 turns, what woulda been the point?

4. I've gotten SIGNIFICANTLY better, but the game no longer seems about character development--the part of the game I adored, and more about getting the optimal roll-up, which is far less enjoyable. Heck, I've done analysis to the point where I've literally done a relatively advanced numerical regression on the optimal WILL and how many fights it should take to raise a stat any given number of points, assuming that's one's goal. I've managed to have a 5-0 turn for the first time EVER! (even dating back to the old days), so I've gotten better, but I still am not seeing my warriors develop IN THE FIGHTS! (I know I sound like a broken record, but I know there are a LOT LOT LOT of gamers like me, whose primary pleasure comes from seeing my characters get better. Hell, it's one of the main reasons WoW has 30 Million active subscriptions... I've been lucky enough to know some of the developers, and their focus when designing the game was in allowing people to regularly see improvement in their characters.
I'm sure you know we live in a society which has come to expect near immediate feedback. That's hard to do in a game like this, obviously, but one of the ways the USED to achieve it was by rewarding you for fighting a character 5, 10, 15, 20 times because the guy would OBVIOUSLY be better--be able to do things he couldn't do before. As new players try the game, they're looking to see their fighter get better. If they don't see him get better, they will leave the game.

It's kind of like trying to imagine WoW, and having not only some 60th+level item look no different than a 1st level item, but having the visual effects of some spell you get only at 30th level look no different than a spell they could cast at 1st level. If people don't see improvement, they won't enjoy things nearly as much. IF WoW had taken the above approach, they'd never have made it past the first year.

5. After 3 turns, I killed off all but 2 of the warriors I had 25 years ago.

To be honest, I'm willing to write improvements for the game (make up all the different statements--say, 1000 new fight statements, 100 per style, maybe 5 per skill once they reach a new level in that skill) for FREE! on my own time to help people see said improvements, if they'd write them into the game.

Hell, I'd be happy if I could just see what numbers are being rolled. Is a guy losing because he's UNLUCKY? Or is he losing because he's poorly designed? Well, I've said a LOT more than I intended to about all this, so apologize for the length, but I am, unfortunately, loquacious by nature.

The_Chief

The_ChiefUnchartered Poster

Joined: Mar 17, 2011
Posts: 19

Posted:
Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:17 pm

Aragorn wrote:

I can't add much to the previous very good advice. Coming from a manager who has had many gaps of inactivity between twenty plus years, I believe if I can TC anyone can TC. I've rarely gone through big spending tactics although occasionally I will splurge. Study helps best and when I've needed something clarified most managers have been more than helpful to steer me out of the ditch however I still stubbornly steer for the ditch with experimentation I find fun. Just have fun, that's all that matters to me at least. Keep expectations low and when you do well it's that much better.

I think a lot of people mistunderstood a lot of what I said, and/or ignored parts which I meant to be key to the post.

If this were about me "getting better" or "needing help" there are definitely different forums for it. This isn't one of them. I really don't know what TC is... Totally Change? Turn Coat? Take Cover? (I'm retired Army... RETIRED, not "used to be in for a few years" so combat statements are what I would always lean towards ), , so I can't tell you how I fare on that point.

This is really me trying to help turn D2 (can't talk about ADM as I haven't gotten a warrior there yet... may never at this rare) into a better, more fun game.

As in my reply to Managerr, I would ask, wouldn't it be MORE fun if you could see the actual results of your experiments? That's another HUGE part of my suggestion and at this point, almost darn near an ultimatum.

Enhance the player's ability to see what's going on in the fight! Enhance the player's ability to see improvement in their warriors! It doesn't HAVE to be as obvious as posting what the rolls were--I'd just be happy at reading more than a paragraph for $1.50. If you think about the entertainment dollar today, $15.00 buys you a month of WoW. Now, I'm lucky enough to HAVE the money, and I CAN afford to play 7 arenas at 5 warrior per turn, and I would have been willing to do that IF!!! the product were of the same quality it was 25 years ago. I'm not seeing long fights anymore, and at this point, I'm certain it's got nothing to do with my ability (people have said as much... the fights have been shortened purposefully). I'm also not seeing my TP do a literal backflip anymore as an Adv. Expert Riposte result. I'm also not certain whether I've just been UNLUCKY (with a 9 will, I should, as I understand it, have a 45% chance at raising a stat--I've even conjectured, as 12 should be average, the chance might be as low as 35%, but I've now missed that roll 5 consecutive times. Because they mentioned to us in the rules the chance is about 50-50 for someone with an average will, even without knowing it's supposed to be a 45% chance, because of what's mentioned in the rules, I KNOW it's just bad luck) in the 6 fights since his return (hell, I've been unlucky with that skill roll in 5 consecutive fights, maybe the hits ending the fights in 1 minute have been particularly unlucky as well... Maybe he CAN still do backflips, but because I've only been able to see 14 minutes in 6 fights, compared to the... 109 minutes I was able to see in the prior 12).

I brought this thread up because the owners are having very low retention of new players. I'm trying to help them find ways to retain players. As I spend ~$150 in fights each month ($10.50*7*2), I am someone I'm sure they'd like to see continue to play. I'm trying to let the owners know WHY! I would be leaving and what they'd have to do to retain me. In the military, when I wasn't in combat (chopper pilot), my additional duty was as sort of a "Mr. Fix-it" for the administrative parts of Brigades and Divisions which weren't working properly. I would go into an office, see what they weren't doing right, see who and what had to go, fix it, then move onto the next department which wasn't working. This isn't a boast. I'm not saying I was better at it than others were (the Army said it, not me...). I'm just saying I might be able to see ways to make things better which others don't, AND I'm offering those opinions for free (heck, even offered to do some work for free... see my other "suggestion"), and even willing to do some work for free (retirement hath its privileges).

Who knows? You might even find that YOU would like the game better if you could better track the results of your experiments.

The_Chief

The_ChiefUnchartered Poster

Joined: Mar 17, 2011
Posts: 19

Posted:
Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:01 am

KidArcane wrote:

I played in the early 90's, then left after a few years. Came back maybe 18-20 months ago. Different. Very different from then. MUCH different feel from the late 80's, I'm sure.

1st-- There's no sense repeating all the good advice already given. I urge you to accept it in the spirit intended (genuinely helpful) and never hesitate to ask questions. I haven't found any churlish, ugly personalities (yet) that would grind their heel into you -- on the sands or in the personals. I seem to remember a few in the 90's. THAT's changed, anyway.

I've encountered one or two, seen some managers whine because their warriors were killed (um, they were aware this is based on gladiatorial combat, where people were killed all the time, I think!, not certain). Even here, everyone's assuming the problem is that I'm a bad manager or don't know what I'm doing instead of considering there may have been changes in the readouts, abilities of characters as you mention "4th." This really is/was meant as an honest goodness suggestion to make the game better, more enjoyable, not as a plea for help.

KidArcane wrote:

2nd--Opinion: I think that players stopped writing prolifically because (a) there is no reason to -- the forums provide a means of readily exchanging ideas or insights or questions; and (b) nobody wants to sound like an idiot. I've read a few old, old newsletters and reviewed my cache of DM articles from "the experts" of yester-year, and it is embarrassing! Many of the dictates of style and philosophies of design are just not valid anymore, not if you want to win consistently. Since most managers playing now have access to the necessary charts and articles (and some have decades of playing experience and numbers-crunching to draw upon as well) there just isn't any point to the "how-to" articles in the newsletters.

I was actually DM after my 2nd ever turn... that was back when anyone could get matched up with the DM, even a first turn player. My basher had 21ST, 18SZ, did Awesome damage, used a Maul, and managed to hit the guy, and for two more turns managed to do the same thing. I had no CLUE what kind of help or strategy to give, and in fact gave AWFUL advice, but I LOVED the commentary by the Spymaster on having a 1-0, then 2-0, 3-0 before his 1st loss fighter. As I got extreme pleasure from reading the Spymaster's reaction, I felt I had to give SOMETHING back, so I did my best to entertain. The advice was horrible, but I think the articles were entertaining nonetheless. This is another reason I suggest cutting down the arenas. They did it once because it needed to be done, and just as the WBA and other pro-sports have realized, sometimes contraction is necessary. Yes, some people might be upset (not me.... they could change the name of all my arenas and I wouldn't care in the least...), for a little while... but they got over it once, they'll get over it again. If they feel the need to keep the names, then as I said elsewhere, don't ELIMINATE the arena, just combine it with another one. Let's say they were to combine 1 and 2(just to use the first 2, not putting either arena down), call it Mordant-Niania. Really now... who's being hurt by this? It would mean less work for both the employees, AND the Spymasters (which means we could see longer, better, non-repetitive reports), more game interaction... The advantages in the long run would WELL surpass the disadvantages. Again, I'm not saying ELIMINATE Arenas. I'm saying combine them.

KidArcane wrote:

3rd-- I agree that the tourney fighting aspect of the game has... (ahem) somewhat soured it. I play exclusively in 81 now, and I'm hoping that soon I can lobby to have another arena "tourney free" so that 81 can be split in half, or at least I'll be able to run two teams in that sort of an arena. I enjoy it. However, we're in the minority here; it is what it is.

ARE we in the minority? I think if we were, we wouldn't see 81 as the most populated, most played arena in the game.

KidArcane wrote:

4th-- Yeah, I can remember reading fights where the guys did amazing things. Very fun reads. But things change. Scum exist, but they are not the dominant species any longer. There have been many "tweaks" to the game in the past two decades, or so I've read. ADM fights seem to still have the choreography you're talking about, but the average fight, not so much. Some of this is undoubtedly at the RSI/programmer's end, and some of this is based on the idea that many of the managers playing now (most, actually) have at least a decade of experience in designing and running a warrior within the structure of this game.

Yes, things change, but they should change for the better, not the worse, especially when the fights have shrunk in size (and I'm talking about ALL fights). ALL my fights used to be (looking over my old fights right now), I'm guesstimating ~4.5 minutes long on the average. Now, in my most recent turn, I did receive one TPvsTP fight which lasted 10 minutes, but the description of it was as a "boring gory fight." Uh, boring? AND gory? The longer fights are more fun. They just are.

Again, remember I'm trying to talk about a good business model here. Let's talk about Pay-per-View fights, because thats' something which is similar in many ways to what we're dealing with. When people pay $40 to watch a championship bought, they are REALLY pissed when it's a 30 second fight!! In the UFC Championship fights are 5 rounds not 3. UFC rounds are 5 minutes, not 3, and MMA is the fastest growing sport in the world, and continues to be so for ~the 5th consecutive year. Do you think their rounds being longer, the action more varied, and them showing more fights than boxing on PPV? and the growth in popularity is by sheer coincidence?

Maybe the owners just want to keep this a simulation and aren't interested in what other people want. That's fine.

But if you DO remember reading all of those neat and very very cool moves, ALWAYS by the more experienced characters, are you really saying the removal of those from the game are a GOOD thing? I don't care if it's a lunger or basher who does cool things. Heck, ALL warriors should be able to do really cool stuff as they get up in experience. I'm guessing from your post, this kind of thing has been removed from the game, and that's really bad IMO... really bad. What was the purpose?

KidArcane wrote:

Finally-- Remember it's a computer-generated numbers game. Not everything is absolute, but one can play the odds, if one knows what they are to begin with.... and many managers (not me) do seem to have a clue about the odds. Their designs and strategies work well; the fights are over faster; there's little flourish embedded in the description unless one stumbles upon a warrior's favorite weapon. It's still fun for me, but it's not what it was, that's all true. I hope you find pleasure in the game, especially as it now has this internet forum aspect. Without this part, I wouldn't have stuck around as long as I have. I remember writing letters to various managers (always had at least two letters out at any time) and exchanging ideas and information, learning more about them, growing long-distance friendships. It's a different world, my friend.

In general, and I'm going to be painfully honest here, I've found the vast majority of responses to questions I've asked to be condescending. As you mention, the fights are shorter and the likelihood of having those neat things happen have been reduced, and that's what this post was also trying to suggest they bring back. If managers have gotten sooo good that they've shortened the fights, then either change things up, or triple the HPs and halve the damage weapons do. Someone mentioned they've nerfed the TPs. I've ALWAYS seen such changes as bad, be it in here, or in WoW, or back in the DAoC, even the EQ, days

KidArcane wrote:

p.s. Oh, and I almost forgot -- check out the player links and get yourself copies of the latest charts and information. There are some interesting articles out there in the forums, too. You can always start a thread by asking something as simple as: How DOES one run a P-Strike?

For the very last time, this is NOT a whine about not being good enough. I've seen all the charts, read the forums, read the different opinions, but I don't really have many questions, and the ones I have, I ask in the proper forums. From what I read, this game is in serious jeopardy of disappearing if it can't attract new players and KEEP them. What' I'm trying to do is give a businessman's advice (for the very little it's worth, I was the original owner of what is now Hulu.com [which was not its name when I sold it], which they changed and are now facing financial difficulties where I'd raised a successful company at the beginning of the Great Recession [which is/was officially a depression since the value of a dollar went to a point where it INCREASED not decreased, or had negative inflation, but that's neither here nor there], thus do claim to have some business acumen. Yes, I started it AFTER I retired from the Army. ), and offer up what I believe to be the reasons they don't have the retention now that they used to. Look how many of us have come back to the game as adults. Look how many of us have not only found the game again, but are on the boards... I can't help but think I'm not the only guy who has come back and found the game to be so different and not nearly as much fun as it was. I'm willing to put my own time into trying to improve it, or I wouldn't be in this particular forum.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate people trying to help me, but this isn't about me trying to get better. It's about me trying to make the game better.