I'm kind of confused as to when Joubert suddenly got a consistent quad - he didn't land the jump in competition for over a year (more like a year and a half) and then he landed one good one at worlds and a couple of shakey/flawed ones and he now has a consistent quad? I think Lambiel is probably the only other skater besides Pluschenko with a properly consistent quad and the rest in your list can land them (and land them very beaituflly) but they are hit and miss in competition.

Ant

Joubert landed a number of quads before and after his dismal 2005 season, strongly at the beginning of the program, until he'd unravel on the 3A or what should have been reliable jumps for him. He's like Sandhu that way.

Slightly O/T, but could someone please refresh me: at 2006 Worlds, Jobert skated arguably the best LP of his life, right? What did he land then? Did he get dinged on spins and that's where Lambiel with a 3axle and 2 quads, but a couple shaky jumps skated away with the title? IIRC, the two were separated by less than 1 point.

I would say his 2006 Worlds program was arguable the best LP of his life because the quality of his spins has improved greatly since 2004. However, he skated brilliantly in 2004 at Euros and Worlds.

I seem to recall that Lambiel built himself a nice 8-point cushion in the 2005 Worlds QR as well. Too bad for Stephane that there will be no QRs at Worlds any more.

One more Joubert post, and I'll stop.

Joubert has had unfortunate quali rounds at Worlds both in 2004 and 2006. Going into Dortmund, after having taken advantage of Plushenko beating himself in Budapest by stubbornly repeating the 3A until he got it right, he was considered a contender for the World title. He wasn't great in the quali round, but for whatever reason the judges scored Sandhu ahead of him, which put a big damper on his spirits; he needed the first to stay even with Plushenko going into the SP. (Odds were that Sandhu would falter in SP, and he skated to script.) Many of the skaters sat in the section behind us, and after the quali rounds, Joubert had the same look of being stabbed in the gut, just like Langlois and Archetto after they skated very, very well, but placed just low enough in the SP to take the spirit out of them. And, of course this past year it lost him the World title.

I seem to recall that Lambiel built himself a nice 8-point cushion in the 2005 Worlds QR as well. Too bad for Stephane that there will be no QRs at Worlds any more.

He did not need it in 2005. He won the short and long by a comfortable margin anyway. Well Joubert was close in the short, but miles behind in the long, and silver medalist Buttle was well behind in both.

Joubert has had unfortunate quali rounds at Worlds both in 2004 and 2006. Going into Dortmund, after having taken advantage of Plushenko beating himself in Budapest by stubbornly repeating the 3A until he got it right, he was considered a contender for the World title. He wasn't great in the quali round, but for whatever reason the judges scored Sandhu ahead of him, which put a big damper on his spirits; he needed the first to stay even with Plushenko going into the SP. (Odds were that Sandhu would falter in SP, and he skated to script.) Many of the skaters sat in the section behind us, and after the quali rounds, Joubert had the same look of being stabbed in the gut, just like Langlois and Archetto after they skated very, very well, but placed just low enough in the SP to take the spirit out of them. And, of course this past year it lost him the World title.

At the 2004 Worlds he skated perfectly in both the short and long, I dont know how that showed "a damper" on his spirits. He also technicaly did not need to win the qualifying round to have had a chance to win Worlds that year. His second in qualifying, and second in the short, meant he would have won by winning the long, but of course Plushenko would have needed to make major mistakes in the long for that to have happened anyway, which didnt happen.

I also remember that years Worlds since Lambiel and Weir both far outskated Lindemann in the long program, but Lindemann came in 3rd in the long and easily hung onto his bronze overall. Well Worlds were in Germany after all, they did win a bizarre ice dance medal as well.

At the 2004 Worlds he skated perfectly in both the short and long, I dont know how that showed "a damper" on his spirits. He also technicaly did not need to win the qualifying round to have had a chance to win Worlds that year. His second in qualifying, and second in the short, meant he would have won by winning the long, but of course Plushenko would have needed to make major mistakes in the long for that to have happened anyway, which didnt happen.

As I remember the 2004 Worlds, Plushenko did his Njinsky poses and danced later to a fiddler. He was at his best 'show off' skating in Dortmund. Joubert, introduced his Matrix and it also got the crowd going. It was more of a sport with Joubert, but judges go for personality and Joubert lacks that, imo.

As I remember the 2004 Worlds, Plushenko did his Njinsky poses and danced later to a fiddler. He was at his best 'show off' skating in Dortmund. Joubert, introduced his Matrix and it also got the crowd going. It was more of a sport with Joubert, but judges go for personality and Joubert lacks that, imo.

He did gain some personality in Calgary and that is a good sign.

Joe

It definitely is a "sport" with Joubert. His obsession with beating Plushenko during the peak of their rivalry is well documented.

At the 2004 Worlds he skated perfectly in both the short and long, I dont know how that showed "a damper" on his spirits. He also technicaly did not need to win the qualifying round to have had a chance to win Worlds that year. His second in qualifying, and second in the short, meant he would have won by winning the long, but of course Plushenko would have needed to make major mistakes in the long for that to have happened anyway, which didnt happen.

Joubert's SP was relatively flat and was not flawless; this was very clear live. I'll have to go back to watch the video, but I believe he had a flawed landing on the solo jump. (Lindemann should have been ahead of him in the SP.) He really picked it up in the long program. Plushenko did make at least one major mistake in the LP, falling on the 3Lo, and if you watch his landings, they were of mixed quality, but Plushenko would have had to melt down to lose that one.

Originally Posted by slutskayafan21

I also remember that years Worlds since Lambiel and Weir both far outskated Lindemann in the long program, but Lindemann came in 3rd in the long and easily hung onto his bronze overall. Well Worlds were in Germany after all, they did win a bizarre ice dance medal as well.

I disagree. Comparing Lambiel's skating to Lindemann's, both had faulty 4T combos -- Lindemann's being worse, but both were flawed -- he had tilted and low landings on other jumps, his camel spin was perfunctory and another spin was relatively short. Only two of his spins were superb, and Lindeman had a blazing scratch spin to end his program. Lambiel had a great 4T and a terrific 3F/3T combo. Lindemann had two excellent 3A's, one in combination, as well as a spread eagle entry into the solo. He also had steps into the 3Lz, and harder transitions overall. His serpentine footwork was more difficult, faster, and more flowing than Lambiel's straightline, and Lambiel was behind his music in the footwork. Lindemann had more speed in general, and a tremendous amount of energy, surpassing Lambiel in more ways than one.

Weir did not have the technical or transitional content or Lindemann's speed, although his flow was the best in the competition. As much as I love Weir, in 2004, I think he ended in the right place; had he attempted/landed that last jump that he dropped, I would have put him above Lambiel.

If the Worlds were not in Germany Lindemann would never have beaten either Lambiel or Weir, atleast in the long program. I would bet lots of money on it I hypotheticaly if I could. Any of Lindemann's spins blazing, Lambiel also had 2 quads, Lindemann did not even land his 1 quad clean. Weir landed all is jumps cleanly, a quadless Lindemann beating a clean Weir is also nuts. Speed is hard to tell on TV but his program was full of stops, and his polish, line, and musical interpretation is miles behind both Lambiel and Weir.

What would Lindemann do now even with his best skate at a Worlds? Well nothing much, Worlds will probably never be in Germany again in his career.

If the Worlds were not in Germany Lindemann would never have beaten either Lambiel or Weir, atleast in the long program. I would bet lots of money on it I hypotheticaly if I could.

Lindemann was on a blaze all week in practices, hitting everything. He did not let the pressure of skating for the home crowd affect him, except for the flaw of the quad combo in the LP. I doubt that Weir would have beaten him anywhere but in the US, as Weir had never competed at Worlds before. I doubt that Lindemann would have won bronze anywhere else, and that Lambiel would have, but that would have been based on reputation, not the performances they put down in Dortmund.

Originally Posted by slutskayafan21

Any of Lindemann's spins blazing,

I suggest you go back and actually look at his final scratch spin, which in addition to its speed was perfectly centered, with his arms overhead.

Originally Posted by slutskayafan21

Lambiel also had 2 quads, Lindemann did not even land his 1 quad clean.

And Lambiel's quad combo was not clean, nor did he have a single clean 3A in the LP, while Lindemann had two beauties, one in combination, and the other from a spread eagle after the 3 minute mark.

Originally Posted by slutskayafan21

Weir landed all is jumps cleanly, a quadless Lindemann beating a clean Weir is also nuts.

Lindemann landed quads in every phase of the competition, even though his LP quad combo was flawed. Lambiel blew the SP and was in the final group based on reputation, and should have been no higher than 8th in that phase. Had Weir not been underrated in the quali round, and had Lambiel been scored properly in the SP, Weir would have been in the final group, and Lambiel would not have.

Originally Posted by slutskayafan21

Speed is hard to tell on TV but his program was full of stops, and his polish, line, and musical interpretation is miles behind both Lambiel and Weir.

Legline, I'll grant you that barely, but Lambiel's upper body had little control, while Lindemann's was still and controlled. As for the rest, I'll leave you to your opinion.

Originally Posted by slutskayafan21

What would Lindemann do now even with his best skate at a Worlds? Well nothing much, Worlds will probably never be in Germany again in his career.

He may never reach that level again. That doesn't diminish the programs -- all three of them -- that he put down in front of a pressure-filled home crowd, with the media down his back the entire week.

Weir's spins better then Lambiel's? That is so nuts it is hilarious. As for jumps because Lambiel has a solid quad, and tries 3 total with 1 in the short and 2 in the long, and Weir does not even come close to that at this point, that automaticaly makes him the better jumper for now, unless Weir was much more consistent with his triples which he was not last year.

I'm not so sure its such an easy win for Lambiel on jumps though just because he has the quads, because he doesn't "have" the triple axel in the same way that Weir does. Arguably i think Weir's jumps are more beautiful with greater flow into and out of and lovely deep running edges out of them too. Of course Weir's problem is that he's incapable of actually putting in 8 Jumping passes into his LP so he throws marks down the drain that he realyl can't afford to do.

The bottom line with Lambiel, imo, is it's tough for him to go beyond his best effort because of the knee. His spins in 2003 were mesmerizing and they brought a whole new concept in spinning to the Sport. They've been problematic lately and I think it's the knee. However, his quads seem consistant becacuse he lands on the other knee. The problematic 3A has a very shaky take off because of the bad knee.

His adrelalin has been working but it wont forever. Surgeries take their toll too, and he has had two already, and it seems there will be a third. I doubt he'll make it to the Olys. Sad, but c'est la vie.

The bottom line with Lambiel, imo, is it's tough for him to go beyond his best effort because of the knee. His spins in 2003 were mesmerizing and they brought a whole new concept in spinning to the Sport. They've been problematic lately and I think it's the knee. However, his quads seem consistant becacuse he lands on the other knee. The problematic 3A has a very shaky take off because of the bad knee.

His adrelalin has been working but it wont forever. Surgeries take their toll too, and he has had two already, and it seems there will be a third. I doubt he'll make it to the Olys. Sad, but c'est la vie.

Joe

Lambiel, despite his injuries, is a far better skater now than he was in 2003 and 2004. (He was just a kid then.) His late-season short program was magnificent: he had control in his upper body, the majority of his jumps were landed with a straight back, solid edge, and upright position, unlike the hit-or-miss technique (his edge jumps in particular in 2003-4), under CoP, he has no "throw-away" spins (like the camel) he and others had under 6.0, and he was rhythmically spot on. In this program the great potential he'd shown in his first years of senior competition blossomed into the complete skater. I think "Four Seasons" was less successful than his SP -- I think that was the toll of his injury -- but the core of his skating was more solid, even though he skated a more overall technically sound program in 2005 qualis, for example.