If my Vagina shot bullets, could I conceal it from Rick Perry and John Kasich?

Margaret, if my vagina could shoot bullets it would have fewer regulations on it. Plus, it would be easier to conceal from idiot politicians like Rick Perry and John Kasich. And while that might be a bit graphic for even me, it’s a sad but very true statement. We women in Texas (I can’t speak for the women of Ohio) are madder than hell and I think it’s time again for another Ann Richards to come make things right – God rest her soul. Years ago she said that government should “open the doors and let the people in.” Well ready or not, here we come. And this time, we’re bringing a Harvard grad named Senator Wendy Davis.

For years now, Governor Perry has waged a war on women based on conversations he has with God and his pastor. It’s a given that Rick’s god speaks to him in a male voice. I am sure he has never considered the alternative. According to his god, women can’t be trusted to make healthcare decisions. As a result Perry has decided to make it hard for poor women (and soon almost any woman) to even have access to healthcare at all – problem solved. When you gut funding for family planning, force doctors to perform unnecessary procedures on women (and only women) and then shut down dozens of women’s health clinics… well let’s just say it’s not a stretch to suggest that Rick Perry hates women. But as far as his desire to end abortion, he doesn’t have a clue. All of his efforts will simply decrease the number of safe, legal abortions and increase the number of unsafe, illegal abortions.

I am old enough to remember what happens to women who don’t have access to safe, legal abortions. I lost a few friends in those days. But, I guess if you don’t like women, killing a few is of no concern. Can you imagine the outrage if we were legislating a penis? Would the out-crying of voters be called an unruly mob then? Not a chance. It would be called the Texas Legislature.

Rick Perry, bless his heart, doesn’t have the good sense God gave a goose – otherwise known as a C minus average at Texas A&M University. That boy hasn’t had a light on in the attic since someone in kindergarten told him he had nice hair. Perry says that A&M shaped him into the person he is today. What shape is obtuse? He earned a C in U.S. History, a D in Shakespeare, and a D in the principles of economics. Perry even got a C in gym which might explain why he finds joy in picking on defenseless, poor women who can’t fight back. I don’t even know what to say about his C in animal breeding. If the man can’t even figure out how animals reproduce, why do we expect him make rational decisions about women’s reproductive freedoms?

Unfortunately Rick is not the only Governor who has taken up gynecology on the side. Over in the great state of Ohio, a certain Mr. Kasich seems to be fine with keeping helpful health information from rape victims. And in North Carolina they plan to tell 7th graders that if you have an abortion, you’ll never be able to have any more children. Hmmm. Lying to rape victims and children. Republicans everywhere must be so proud.

You know what gets me, Margaret? These holier-than-thou types who have to lie and mislead because people don’t want to buy their brand of religion are nothing more than hypocritical bullies. Just like Jesus taught us: …whoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when you depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet… and then lie to them and force them to do what you want.

And for those women out there, who think this is really about saving innocent babies, let me assure you it’s not. Republican politicians have passed legislation to define pregnancy as beginning at fertilization which means most types of birth control are now defined as causing abortions. You might want to think about that really hard. Are they saving babies or just calling you a slut? Honestly, Perry and Kasich think women run to Planned Parenthood like it was a 7-Eleven. I’ll take a soda, a bag of chips and an abortion please.

To Perry, Kasich and the other asshat politicians who want to regulate women’s bodies I have one thing to say: Get your religion out of my vagina and back into your heart where it belongs. I mean it. Really.

Responses

Hey, I think your website might be having browser compatibility issues.
When I look at your blog site in Safari, it looks fine but
when opening in Internet Explorer, it has some overlapping.
I just wanted to give you a quick heads up! Other then that, excellent
blog!

Excellent post. I used to be checking continuously this weblog and I am impressed!
Very helpful info particularly the ultimate section 🙂 I take
care of such information much. I used to be looking for this certain info for a
very long time. Thanks and best of luck.

dialogue about this post at this place at this web site, I have read all that, so now me also commenting here.|
I am sure this post has touched all the internet users, its really really good paragraph on building up new web site.|
Wow, this article is good, my sister is analyzing these kinds of things, so I am going to convey her.|
bookmarked!!, I like your web site!|
Way cool! Some very valid points! I appreciate you

Well as expected TX HB2 passed in the Senate last night in special section 2. This bill will severely restrict women’s health care (including abortion access) around the state. Mainly for women of color & women in rural areas & poor women. Surprise!

That’s the bad news.

The good news is this seemed to be a tipping point for the women & men around the state that stand for equality no matter a persons gender or race. Thousands of orange shirts flooded the capitol these last few weeks in to stand with Tx women. The BGTX crews registered thousands of new voters and hundreds of thousands of dollars as we continue our fight to turn TX blue. There is a plapable engery in these crowds. A pent up sense of frustration in these people who have been oppressed for too long and are now called to duty and ready to fight with all they have. Seriously, you can see it in there eyes.

I call myself a Texan, transplanted here 14 years ago via New York & Pennsylvania. I was extremely active in politics in both of those states and although ready to take more of a back seat in politics for a bit so I could raise my girls attended my first party meeting upon arrival. At the risk of offending my fellow native TX democrats that lurk here LOL LOL I need to say how shocked I was at the weak Party I found at that first meeting. I thought at first maybe it was just a cultural difference. And in part I think that was true. But I quickly found out what it was like to be an oppressed political minority. With weak leaders, sub-standard candidates, aggressive opponents TX was a waste land where old Liberals came to die. The voice of Ann Richards and other good TX democrats still could be heard, barely, but there was no doubt their day had come and gone with NO ONE in the wings ready to take the lead.

Fast forward to a few months ago when I first became aware of battlegroundtx. What a contrast! I saw motivated leaders, who were not only had fire in their belly but brains in their head. They are strong and committed for the long run. THESE people have brought their proven successes with them to TX and don’t plan on leaving until they have won the war. I left those meeting knowing with out a doubt Texas would be first purple and then blue in the future. My personal opinion was it would take 2 national cycles although the leaders were a bit more optimistic. Nonetheless it was turning for certain.

And then we were given a gift by our opponents. By way of a blatantly over reaching anti women & anti poor, piece of legislation that I have ever seen come out of committee. They went too far. They awoke the masses.

You know the rest… It’s not over, not by a long shot. it has only just begun. They can take our tampons and pads but they can’t take our fire in our belly. They can try and oppress our voices but they won’t suppress our spirit. Not this time. Not now. #Wendydavis

I wasn’t in Austin last night when the gavel went down, but I sure as hell am here when the sun rose this morning, working my tail off. As I will be every morning until the job is done.

I’ve been busy and haven’t been following the political scene very carefully. Had a couple of projects on the back burner for some time, and I don’t want them to get cold.

But the fiasco with the Texas legislature is just too much! In this day and age????? What cave have they crawled out of.

And then there is the Zimmerman trial, read show biz. I have only caught parts of it and then snatches of commentary from time to time. The prosecuting and defense attorneys have put on quite a show! Could be they relish the national, even international TV exposure and are hoping to parley that into big time political careers? Naw. They wouldn’t do that.

Florida is not exactly Deep South anymore. We know some pretty sophisticated people there. But I suppose it still has its share of gun-totting good-ole-boys. With six women on the jury though, I’m thinkin’ hung jury.

Gato, food stamps and all the nutrition programs are mandatory. As good as that sounds, here is where the catch is: the House Appropriations Committee. This is where the Republicans have promised to take up the Nutrition Programs as a separate bill. All they have to do is undefined these programs. However, when they conference the commodity titles (what they passed yesterday) with the Senate they will be told that hey, too bad – our bill says differently, we have nutritions programs. If the House bags the whole thing right there, there is a chance the Senate version of the Nutrition Programs will survive and suffice. And as ever, it is up to the President to decide whether or not to sign anything. Nothing is ever simple, is it?

Reality is that the war on women’s reproductive rights is just the “tip” of the iceberg. The Supreme court with their gaggle of conservative penises is desperate to over-turn Roe v Wade. I am sure they are hoping that women at the state level will file suit against the state laws and they will eventually have the abortion issue right in front of them at the Federal level. Look what they did to voting rights so that they can eliminate people of color from voting. The Koch Baggers will not stop until women can no longer vote. The Koch brothers are paying big bucks for all of these Supreme court decisions to overturn laws that have stood for years and there is no end to their fortune. They will spend what they have to in order to achieve their goal of becoming Dictators of America.

We as Democrats have sadly done this to ourselves. Way too many sat out the 2010 vote and look what we got for our collective snit……Boner and a

Koch Bagger House of Representatives who have done nothing since that election but obstruct. And we have been screwed by our own party leader in the Senate, Harry Reid, who could have, but did nothing about the filibuster rule. The Koch Bagger agenda is an “end game”………the Koch Brothers have been working toward the goals they have achieved in the last 8 years via the Supreme Court and the House of Representatives for many, many years. Their father who was a Nazi supporter began this quest to rule America decades ago and taught his son’s well. Actually taught the two older sons his vile ways and they screwed the youngest son out of his share of the Koch fortune ( look it up, it’s true). More for David and Charles to throw around to the Baggers. This Bagger crap didn’t just happen overnight !!!

It seems insurmountable and especially for Southern Democrats whose states are drowning in Baggers and the idiots who sat out the elections in Wisconsin, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Virginia —–boy what a steller bunch of leaders they have.
Dems need to vote in 2014. Remove Republican governors and even if those govs have geremandered districts and the state legislatures are full of Baggers, get enough Dems in there so that a Democratic governor ,even with a Bagger voting majority, can veto these heinous bills.

It all begins at the state level. The people you choose including judges could come back to bite you in the ass so get out and vote. There is plenty of info on your state judges. The mess of penises we have in the Supreme court now all started somewhere. They were all state or regional judges. And mark my words, every one of those men on the Supreme court have been promised “something” from the Koch Brothers.
Your power is in your vote………..help register those who are not registered, make sure everyone who wants to vote can, help provide rides to polling places. There are many more of “us” than there are Baggers but if we don’t vote, they win.
Vote in 2014……………

Hi, Terri – HTG, all I can think of is the French Revolution… We inspired them to do that; maybe we should give that some thought.

What the hell does the GOP think is going to happen as the number of unemployed, under-educated, hungry (and possibly pregnant) people swells…? Are they going to take shelter in the vaults of their banks, chewing on their stock portfolios for sustenance…?

I thank you one more time M&H for allowing me this space…… Your graciousness is appreciated.

BUT this is tooooo good to pass up. Rand Paul being the natural whacka doodle that he is staunchly defends the behavior of another whacka doodle. IF THIS is the best the GOP has to offer for 2016 bring it on. 😉

They don’t have last nights pixs posted yet but if you are a facebook user go to Stand with Texas Women page and take a peek at pisx from all the rallies. Don’t forget to “like” the page while you’re there.

The TX Senate will most likely be voting on Senate bill 2 tomorrow #SB2. Final debate and voting took place in the House last night while cities like FT Worth & Austin hosted #standwithtxwomen rallies. I saw 167 NEW registers came out of Blue on Green rally. I didn’t see Ft Worth’s numbers yet this morning, but that’s not a bad days work for our BGTX crew! Yay!!!

The bill is expected to pass tomorrow night, (I hope to be there). I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a little bit of drama before the gavel comes down. You can follow the live tweets on #SB2 and #HB2 . Even though the vote is not expected to go our way, we have already won in many ways we could have never imagined. Grassroots works! Don’t mess with women, especially TX women is lesson that should have been learned. We are as mad as hell and we aren’t going to take it anymore.

Cynthia, the first thing I thought of when I heard GZ was a neighborhood watcher was “vigilante”. Where I come from the cops train the watchers and they are told that it is against the law for them to carry weapons of any sort when on watch and to never get out of the car. If they do so, they will end up in jail. I am blown away by the fiasco in Florida. GZ could still be convicted on a lesser charge. In any case, he has screwed up his life for good.

They were both in the wrong place at the wrong time and messed with the wrong person. I believe Z is guilty of being a wimpy chickensh*t with a gun and a huge ego who bit off more than he could chew; panicked and shot TM. I don’t believe he told the whole truth but there is only one side to the story. He may get off with a lesser charge. No matter what he will never walk the streets without fear. I hope people stay calm on both sides whatever the verdict.

Cynthia! This is TOTALLY WONDERFUL! I don’t know if it has to “do with anything,” but it is certainly in the tradition of great story-tellers throughout history, who often used music. If we had some these days, he’d be one…

[…] If My Vagina Shot Bullets Could I Conceal It From Rick Perry and John Kasich Margaret and Helen on the latest crush of forced birth, anti-woman legislation that’s happening in Texas and Ohio. And, well, everywhere. It’s North Carolina taking the lead this week. […]

Up to this point I’ve considered the talk about the ultimate demise of the GOP as so much bluster, but when you see just how crazy some to these people are, and how much they cling to the idea that they keep losing because they are “not appealing to their base enough.” it is clear that they really believe their own BS.

Right now I’m reading Mike Lofgren’s, “The Party is Over.” I’m just in the first chapter, but this guy was a Republican staffer for about thirty years and finally just couldn’t take it any more, and retired. It is pretty blistering. I’m simultaneously reading Stockman’s, “The Great Deformation,” in which he talks about exactly what you are saying: this idea that the GOP needs to take care of the Big Money, and everybody else can go to hell.

Makes me really sad; I remember the old Republican party, before the right-wing ideologues and religious cranks took it over. I give them about a 40% chance of survival at this point.

…a smart discussion of why the Snowden saga is an important part of the story but by no means the whole story.
.
.The Snowden Effect

Meaning: there’s what Snowden himself revealed by releasing secrets and talking to the press. But beyond this, there is what he set in motion by taking that action. Congress and other governments begin talking in public about things they had previously kept hidden. Companies have to explain some of their dealings with the state. Journalists who were not a party to the transaction with Snowden start digging and adding background. Debates spring to life that had been necessary but missing before the leaks. The result is that we know much more about the surveillance state than we did before. Some of the opacity around it lifts. This is the Snowden effect.
.
.
Works for me. 😉

pf – The GOP has been on a down hill run since Reagan maybe Nixon. GOP used to be reasonable but now it has been taken over by extremists with an agenda that does not include a large middle class. Many of us here grew up in the beginning of the rise of a strong middle class; a world where anything was possible if you worked for it. White collar and blue collar workers could have a share of the pie. This was especially true for women. We could be more than just a baby maker to clean house or a teacher or nurse. A democracy requires a strong middle class but an oligarchy or corporatocracy etc does not. The Republicans more than the Democrats only represent the wealthy and corporations these days and seem bent on destroying the middle class. Russia and China attempted to limit a middle class; did not work too well for them. You can not successfully control the human spirit.

Then again large middle classes will destroy the environment and deplete the resources faster. But the Republicans do not care about the environment either.

So yes let the Republicans destroy their party. Hopefully a better one will be created from the ashes. Just my .0002 cents.

We would have to remind her she has not made good on her idea and promise that she would/could better serve Alaska as a private citizen when she flounced out of our Gov’s job here. She hasn’t done doodly squat to help Alaska since… except maybe to shut up now and again so that it is easier to travel Outside without having to pretend one is from somewhere else to keep from getting sucked into having to talk about her.

lori-
Have been too busy to have been paying attention the Virginia gov dealie- whoa! What a mess!
Had an email last night from a close friend in Texas- she and her daughter were at the rally in Houston yesterday.http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/gallery/Wendy-Davis-kicks-off-bus-tour-in-Houston-66003.php?cmpid=hpfc
and returned home fully charged up to fight the good fight.
It is going to be tough and the Leg seems to be making a lot of messes which will have to be cleaned up down the road but so happy to see the shift.
The testimony Cynthia posted was powerful . Go Texas!

Lori, the Senate involves a six year term. Someone should very carefully and precisely, using stick figures, explain that to Palin so if she does ever win, she can plan when she will suddenly quit. Perry will primary for the R candidacy only if he can hit enough gold in his own teeth cuz those primaries are now costing as much as a general and he is not about to use his own piggy bank for such a venture. And as for the governor of VA who looks like a choir boy — but ain’t — any future plans he had for another public office just got hung up on a meat hook. And you’re damn tootin’ right they will not defetus. My ex church does not even have a service for pre-term stillborns which tells you all you really want to know about their “personhood” contrivance.

Thanks for reminding me of all the fabulous women I knew growing up in Texas. I am embarrassed on a regular basis by the current Texas politicians.Glad to hear from some people with a brain from back home.

The Republican lege has literally radicalized not only the women of TX but the Turn TX Blue crowd and all TX democrats. Something I thought was going to take a few years I now think might just happen in 2016.

Boehner is thinking about killing immigration reform thereby putting the final nail in the GOP’s coffin.

Cynthia – thanks for the transcript. I have been trying to tell my friends and acquaintances on the Right those exact things, but it falls on deaf ears.

Do you have any advice as to how to make them understand that they have written an IOU with their mouths that their asses can’t cash? That THIS is DIFFERENT.

Or should one just forget about it and wait for the inevitable? I really hate to see the final destruction of the GOP by these right-wing goobers and religious cranks, because I remember it when it WAS something.

Maybe the approach is like that of the old mule-skinner. He always spoke softly to his animals – that is, after he hit them ‘tween the eyes with a 2 X 4 to get their attention. Maybe the Texas mid-terms will do that.

[…] Margaret, if my vagina could shoot bullets it would have fewer regulations on it. Plus, it would be easier to conceal from idiot politicians like Rick Perry and John Kasich. And while that might be a bit graphic for even me, it’s a sad but very true statement. We women in Texas (I can’t speak for the women of Ohio) are madder than hell and I think it’s time again for another Ann Richards to come make things right – God rest her soul. Years ago she said that government should “open the doors and let the people in.” Well ready or not, here we come. And this time, we’re bringing a Harvard grad named Senator Wendy Davis. For years now, Governor Perry has waged a war on women based on conversations he has with God and his pastor. It’s a given that Rick’s god speaks to him in a male voice. I am sure he has never considered the alternative. According to his god, women can’t be trusted to make healthcare decisions. As a result Perry has decided to make it hard for poor women (and soon almost any woman) to even have access to healthcare at all – problem solved. When you gut funding for family planning, force doctors to perform unnecessary procedures on women (and only women) and then shut down dozens of women’s health clinics… well let’s just say it’s not a stretch to suggest that Rick Perry hates women. But as far as his desire to end abortion, he doesn’t have a clue. All of his efforts will simply decrease the number of safe, legal abortions and increase the number of unsafe, illegal abortions. Read more … https://margaretandhelen.com/2013/07/02/if-my-vagina-shot-bullets-could-i-conceal-it-from-rick-perry-&#8230; […]

“Ana Mardoll: “I also recommend the testimony of @THEJordonBrown, who preceded @VictorianPrude and broke the ice.”

Jordon Brown: Thank you, chair and committee for allowing me to testify. My name is Jordon Brown. I am a resident of Austin Texas and a constituent of the velociraptor Senator Kirk Watson. [crowd laughter] And I am here to oppose SB1.

Last week I stood before the House committee under very similar circumstances. First, let me say thank you for promising to hear all of the testimony, for those of us that deserve to have our voices heard. During my testimony last week, I made a logical, rational, passionate argument about the dangers of this bill. I argued the attack against women’s healthcare was not merely an attack on women, but an attack on all Texans. That point, sadly, fell on the deaf ears of the House committee.

Today I won’t argue the bill hurts women and does nothing to actually improve their health. Last week, when Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst tweeted that we should “stand up for life”, the façade of the health and safety of the woman had clearly been abandoned. Instead today I will talk to you about the War on Women the Right has actively waged.

I have news for you: You are losing. I know you hate the “unruly mob”, but take a walk around these halls if you have the chance. The number of orange shirts vastly outnumber the number of blue shirts. Last week, at what was supposed to be the anti-choice group’s big rally day, the pro-choice crowd outnumbered them 2,100 to 1,300. Today Mike Huckabee spoke as a proud Arkansan – Arkansawan? I’m sorry, I’m not sure what they’re called. [crowd laughter] But let’s just call them “non-Texans”. [crowd laughter]

I guess, as a white man, you can go to any state and dictate what women can and cannot do with their bodies. And even with him here and the buses bringing anti-choice folks from all across the Not-Texas, there are still more orange shirts in this capitol.
Wake up. You have waged a War on Women and you are losing. Badly. Look at what both sides have gotten out of this: the pro-choice side has Senator Wendy Davis, Mother of Dragons. The anti-choice side has, what? Representative “Rape Kits”? [crowd laughter] Open your eyes now, or by the time you will, your careers will be over. You cannot assault the rights of half the population and expect to survive the fight, not anymore.

The eyes of the world have descended on Texas. How you vote will not be forgotten. You will have to answer to the women of Texas. And may God have mercy on your souls if you enrage them.

Senator Jane Nelson: Now, I’ve been very patient. This is not a comedy club.

Jordon Brown: I find it very serious.

Senator Jane Nelson: Um, I need to ask everyone to respect the decorum here. We’ve done a good job all day long; I want to keep it that way.”

There’s no need for bullets in your vaginas, just get them incorporated. As I’m sure you know, republicans will never interfere with corporations. As for abortions, the repubs will defend the right to life of a fetus up to and including the moment it crowns, and then poof, it’s on its own. By the way, if you even need to define “small number”, consider the number of right to life folks that have ever protested capital punishment.http://www.innocenceproject.org/

gato and mageen- the years I served as a “judge” on an election board I
spent a lot of time on election days trying to keep just that kind of crap from happening. is a REAL problem- even in small towns. perhaps more in small towns??
my Ma always called such souls “gatekeepers” – gatekeepers who have no clue where the real gate is.

PFesser-
Don’t have time this morning to think about all this but would recommend looking here :

“Of the more than 31 million foreign-born people living in the United States in 2009, about 20 million were either citizens or legal residents. Of those who did not have authorization to be here, about 45 percent entered the country legally and then let their papers expire.”
Damn near half didn’t sneak in… they just didn’t leave.
Changes how I see a lot of all this…

As for “the marriage thingy,” it seems to me that how to people choose to arrange their lives should be up to them. Your two friends are certainly not the only ones who would probably really “like” to be married, but are constrained by financial necessities. (I have a friend who divorced her alcoholic husband some time ago, but had to continue to living together in the same house because they couldn’t afford to sell it. It was a nightmare for her, and her children, for several years, until he died of alcohol poisoning.)

We are brought up being taught that there are three things that should never be discussed at a dinner party: religion, politics, and sex. And yet some people think it’s perfectly fine to weigh in on any of these from their church pews, at their bridge parties, endlessly on the internet, or anywhere else.

Also, it has long struck me that – as far as I know – the legal “marriage contract” is the ONLY contract in which gender is allowed to be a factor. Why is that…? You can’t (legally) refuse to sell a house to someone on the basis of gender (or race), nor a car, nor base an employment agreement, nor grant a bank loan, nor a credit card…

There is nothing about “religion” in the application for a marriage license that my husband and I filled out at our local town hall all those years ago. And, of course, the State does not recognize any “marriage” that is not supported by such a license, no matter how many holy people have participated in “sanctifying” it, in front of however many others. (I’m not commenting about so-called “common-law” marriage.) Looking at it that way, you have to wonder on what legal basis all this anti-gay-marriage is founded…

In fact, there IS no legal basis. And, thank heavens, we’re finally getting around to figuring that out!

It’s great to see M&H made cheers and jeers AGAIN on the dailykos site. YAY M&H! As suggested the Democratic leg mayyyyyyy just have something up their sleeve. Stay tuned!

Thanks Delurker! It’s been a busy summer. I’m old ya know, LOL LOL so it’s tough to keep up with all the goings on. I try my best to keep my buds here at M&H informed! Sometimes it feels like I am playing whack a mole here. LOL LOL BUTTTTT I luv yinzs all…

Hi, Mageen – When I lived in Manhattan, my friends and I used to call this sort of near-bullying behavior, by a minimally-empowered functionary, “The Doorman Syndrome.” It refers to someone who is given a very modest amount of “authority” and consequently takes that responsibility incredibly seriously. As always, one of the “best” ways to make oneself feel important is to push someone else around, whether warranted or not.

It’s not hard to imagine how rampant this kind of thing would be in a small office somewhere, awash in local politics, charged with granting voter ID cards…

mageen – I ended up getting a passport. It’s not that hard to get one – especially now that you have your fancy birth certificate! LOL. It’s also not that expensive, compact in size and accepted everywhere.

jean – “I got mine and you can’t have any……unless…..I am so magnanimous as to give it to you under certain conditions……with strings attached as I see fit to approve or more likely, disapprove

It’s too bad the two sides can’t talk to each other, because the conservatives don’t see themselves that way. Their thoughts are, “I got mine, because I earned it, and you need to do the same. Yes, I will give you some of what I earned, but not without limit (what you call ‘strings attached’), because it is not my job to earn your living for you.”

Having busted my hump all through life, I have to say I also felt a certain resentment at seeing my high school classmates sitting on the riverbank, fishing while I was working to support them. It’s just natural.

BTW, I offered to fix your gravatar. And again, delurker is a bit of a WordPress expert and I’m sure would be happy to fix it also.

pi – I appreciate your POV as – what I am assuming you are saying – an Alaskan native, but if you look back far enough, everybody has something to gripe about. As a Scot, I’m still angry about Culloden,

and then before that Boadicea, and before that…etc. The history of the world is a history of conflict. Like it or not, the govt is nothing but raw force, and that force means that every national border has been won by combat at one time or another. When the US bought Alaska from the Russians, I don’t think they asked the natives, any more than Jefferson asked those living inside the Louisiana Purchase. It’s just how it is.

Now that we are here, to my eye we all have a vested interest in controlling the inflow of humans across our borders, whether you call them “undocumented immigrants” or “illegal aliens.” That doesn’t mean stopping it, just having a process and following it.

Pfesser, I very much liked my old original birth certificate. It was of a size that would adapt very nicely to a wallet despite the thick embossing of the official seal. I actually enjoyed carrying with me. No one had ever objected to it before and I used it for decades. I used it when I applied for a passport without objection from the government. When somebody did object it was in a very nasty, unwarranted way based on ignorance and just plain nastiness. That ignorance and damned attitude cost me $$ and anxiety. I did not deserve that. The new birth certificate is big enough to frame and hang on a wall. I can’t carry it with me like I did the old one. The new one travels, when it must, either in a file folder or a large rectangular envelope. Somebody’s personal perspective singled me out and made me feel diminished as a person and a citizen. Apparently that ID ignorance and attitude is running loose just about everywhere when it comes to ID issuance. When this happened to me I really got interested in what other people were experiencing and it stinks! The person who did this to me was just a very small cog in a much large scheme of things but frankly was reflecting the real reason behind the purpose of the sudden rush for such ID.

Social issues such as voter rights, reproductive rights and marriage rights are always fair game to keep progressives and conservatives at perpetual loggerheads. The way I see the different approaches to looking at these issues is, that the usual responsive attitude on the right is this:

“I got mine and you can’t have any……unless…..I am so magnanimous as to give it to you under certain conditions……with strings attached as I see fit to approve or more likely, disapprove…..but if it’s not in MY background or My experience then it’s a no-no……”.

Then of course right here, on this a well known liberal blog, we have the dandy pair of monumental egos that will say just about anything as long as it gets someone – anyone – to pay attention to them. Under any other circumstances I doubt if they could get other people to give them the time of day.

I would like to revisit the marriage thingy again if I may. Since the “gay marriage” (DOMA?) controversy has continued to rage on forever, here is a different twist. We have a couple of dear friends. They both had long time faithful marriages but lost their respective spouses; one to a lengthy siege of cancer, the other to Alzheimers. Both of them cared for their spouses with loving devotion through long agonizing years. Then each was alone for several years. The couple didn’t even know each other until much, much later. We only knew the man initially. Through mutual friends, they happened to meet and began “seeing” each other when they were in their late-70’s. In time a romance blossomed. They both have robust health. Now, like us, they are also octogenarians.

By then, they were in a committed relationship but co-habiting and “LIVING IN SIN!”. They have lived all their lives in a small deeply religious town. He had no children but her kids accepted their arrangement graciously. Here’s the thing. They both have always had modest finances. The man’s wife never worked outside the home but she received half of his Social Security benefits. That went away with her death. The woman worked at a low paying job some when she wasn’t raising a family so her Social Security benefits are also low. If she re-married, she would lose her widow’s benefits from her husband’s pension. Even a civil marriage cermony not sanctioned by their religious community would nullify some of their finances. So she sold her house and moved in with him without benefit of clergy. You can only imagine the gossip that went around that silly little town. Juicy scandal!!!

They both like to travel, having never had much opportunity to do so before. We had talked with them on the phone extensively and e mailed back and forth, so they decided to come see us. They were cute when they got here. As our house guests, they discreetly offered to sleep in separate bedrooms under our roof. That would only mean that I would have to wash twice as many bed linens when they left. C’mon.

We had a great time playing tourist with them and showing them the island in the daytime then staying up until the wee hours playing our wild and crazy card game, “Hand and Foot”.

They spend the winter months in Florida and are having the time of their lives. What’s wrong with that? Are they supposed to spend their Golden Years in mourning? I don’t think so.

Morality has historically been dictated by religion. Then it’s turned over to the secular authorities to enforce the dogma either by economic means and/or strong-arm methods of one kind or another when trickery fails.

Aloha! 🙂 🙂 🙂 Namaste. Shalom. Saalam. Peace.

Auntie Jean

P.S. I think I’ll change my WordPress password to “incorrect”. That way it should always work!

Call them whatever you like PFesser- I call them undocumented immigrants. Covers all the bases , all the reasons people are here without papers which really are many and myriad.
Have just a bit of a chip on my shoulder about the whole deal beings I’m from people who predated the European undocumented immigrants to this continent 🙂

gato opined: “Except, of course, your points have no validity since they do not apply to HIM, for the reason he stated.”

If you will recall, the original read: “Your arguments are unlikely to convince Ffesser for a simple reason, like most sentient Republicans he has done the math and realized that his side can’t keep winning elections…”

No, they have no validity concerning me, because they do not apply to me. “Republican” is not my side.

Whether they have any validity in general is a different question, isn’t it?

alaskapi – I agree with most of what you say, but I dislike the term “undocumented immigrants.” They are not immigrants. Immigrants come into this country via the legal process, not sneak across the border. Let’s call them what they are: illegal aliens. We can argue with the “aliens” part, but definitely not the “illegal.” Calling them “undocumented immigrants” is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist.

Having said that, it is very clear that they need a path to citizenship. First you close the border – for real. Then you deal with illegals already here. And the fact is, they are here because we did not protect our borders, and both administrations WANTED them here; the ReBiblicans wanted them for their cheap labor, the Democrats for their (potential) votes.

Good points LB 22. I think you’re right.
Hey Gato, and you’re right about John McCain. If it isn’t him, it’s his sidekick, Lindsey Graham, who always has the vapors about something, usually Benghazi. Have you noticed Darrell Issa and his “investigations” have pretty much fallen off the radar? I think people have caught onto him.

HI, LB – I agree with your points, and evidently so does our resident Fount of All Knowledge… Except, of course, your points have no validity since they do not apply to HIM, for the reason he stated. Consequently, none of us need pay any mind to the fact that they apply quite well to precisely the demographic you pointed out: “Sentient Republicans.” (I would love to get into questioning how many of those there actually are, and how we might hear from them, but I’ll hold back for the moment. To be honest, I wish one or two WOULD speak up more prominently. I’m certainly weary of seeing John McCain on every Sunday morning talk show, week after week…

a couple things-
Oregon has been a Vote By Mail state for almost 30 years now. ID presented AT THE TIME OF REGISTRATION which is deemed adequate for a citizen to receive a ballot can be other than photo ID same as my state but must satisfy various sniff tests..
They have only unearthed one incident of voter fraud in all that time and are quite happy about the significantly decreased cost of elections and more time to do better counts and check signatures against registration documents by accountable personnel trained to do so.
Washington has become a VBM state as well .
One of the concerns addressed by VBM is especially important to some of this voter ID at the time of voting, every time one votes stupidity. The cost of training very temporary employees to run polling places …
Missing in the voter ID advocates’ arguments is an understanding of issues involved in allowing very temporary and good, bad, or indifferently trained people to make on the spot decisions about whether a voter ID is not merely a valid form but also a valid document. Having served as the “judge” for a precinct for many years I saw numerous issues which made my hair stand on end which there isn’t room here to go into which make me seriously doubt the intelligence of such a method of voter ID.
If the concern is undocumented immigrants- go after employers. Undocumented immigrants are far more interested in jobs than voting- THAT is a fact.
There is a broad difference between rural and urban voting precincts and the problems they face in meeting the requirements of running an election and one size fits all legislation which focuses on voter ID only does not take that into account.
Also- as I have said here before- We have plenty of people here, in the bush, who don’t have ID. No driver’s license because of no roads, no state ID because they don’t fly or have stores , liquor or otherwise.
Nor do they have DMVs or state offices to get ID.
It is not uncommon for folks to live their whole lives in small villages where their primary “ID ” presented at time of voting is KP- known personally to the precinct worker. Please remember they are already legally registered before the actual vote…
It is allowed here to use a valid resident hunting/fishing license to register which is the only form of ID beyond a birth registration many bush folks have If you lie about resident status to get those licenses your buns are toast. The papers are full of prosecutions of folks who fudged or lied to get those.
Voter fraud- one case in over 30 years.
also-
Most of these voter ID proposals include shortening or reducing early voting options. THAT is what Democrats are most concerned about PFesser. In urban precincts where lines form and can take hours for folks to get to vote, the options on the beginning and the end of the voting day when turnout is highest amongst working people, the barriers increase for low wage workers who have time or transportation problems.
Voting is a right.
One that has considerably more protections in the Constitution than many others and states should be working to make it an easy thing to do- not an onerous chore.

Your arguments are unlikely to convince Ffesser for a simple reason, like most sentient Republicans he has done the math and realized that his side can’t keep winning elections unless they prevent blacks and poor people from voting. So when you point out that actual incidents of individuals committing voter fraud is so rare as to be statistically non-existent, whereas voter ID laws will disenfranchise hundreds of thousands of legal voters he just shrugs it off, because to him that isn’t unfortunate side effect of the laws, that is the point. Appeals to fairness aren’t going to work with people who are deliberately tilting the table in their favor.

I haven’t had time to read all of the comments because we are finishing work to take the next shift of helping care for our grand daughter again. For one thing, we have a super raspberry crop, and I am hard-pressed to keep up with it all. Our daughter is recovering from her infection, but she is still pretty weak. We expect this off and on scheduale to last for the next four or five years, maybe longer, depending on our grand daughter’s outcome. Hence the generic comment.

Gun ownership like voting is a right guaranteed by the Constitution. Most people are responsible and don’t kill others. Yet, we have restrictions to protect the population from people who would abuse the privilege. We must show IDs for almost everything for similar reasons.

Democrats, many of whom oppose voter ID laws required identification at their national convention. Why would they make such rules which apply a double standard when they think IDs would be too inconvenient for potential voters? Did they think other Democrats were more dangerous than voters? Did they think Republicans would sneak in and do mischief?

If so, why do some Democrats ignore the documented cases of voter and election fraud? “Landslide Lyndon” Johnson is an old example. They are probably as statistically uncommon as gun violations, but fraud does happen. Though it is rare, fraud taints the political process as I noted earlier. Losers of a close, election cry “fraud” with some justification since it is difficult to know who if any shouldn’t have been voting or voted multiple times. Democrats did it in Ohio, and Republicans have also charged voter fraud.

Nebraska debated a voter ID law, and one suggestion was that the state would provide a free ID card to anyone too indigent or sick to get one A commenter to the Fremonttribune.com “Poll: Do you support Charlie Janssen…” stated that the Breennan Center survey implied that 13 million people cannot easily produce proof of citizenship. That could be a multifaceted problem if only for the difficulty it creates for people trying to navigate our economy.

Nebraska law already requires an ID or proof or residency such as a fuel bill.

Wikipedia reports that the Crawford v. Marion County Election Board in 2008 ruled 6 to 3 that the photo ID requirement is constitutional. The Supreme Court ruled that it the requirement was related to Indian’s “legitimate state interest in preventing voter fraud, modernizing elections and safeguarding voter confidence.” I wrote essentially the same thing.

Justice Stevens wrote that because the IDs were free, the inconvenience of going to the Bureau of Motor Vehicles, providing proof of existence does not produce a significant burden on voters.

Justice Scalia stated that the Supreme Court should defer to state and local law, lest more litigation be encouraged.

Dissenters wrote that the law was motived by Republican partisan politics. The majority said it didn’t matter as long as voting was not surpressed.

I believe a number of voter ID laws are motivated by politics, and some might make it harder for poor people to vote. They rightly tend to fail court challenges. Many of the bills are patterned from the same source. I support ID laws which provide free identification photos for those who cannot afford them and make provisions for officials to go to the homes of those too sick to leave for an ID photo..

I had personal experience with this issue. After I graduated from high school, I asked for my birth certificate to apply for Social Security for my summer job. The clerk couldn’t find my birth certificate, so she made one with the information I gave her. I used it for much of my life.

A few years ago, I asked for a birth certificate to apply for a pass port. No one could find my birth certificate. We looked at the book, and I learned why the earlier clerk couldn’t find my birth certificate. Our doctor had registered it three years late, and gave incorrect information. It said I was a different person than I was. I was not able to prove my identity since my paper trail was based on a supposedly fraudulent birth certificate which though it gave correct information was never registered.

After about a year, our clerk made a deal with someone in the state bureauacracy and they accepted the new version of my existence. They didn’t destroy the old version. I may still be two persons for all I know.

The Supreme Court has already ruled on the ID question and said it is a local issue as long as it is fair to everyone.

Its probably been more fun for me than you, but I am leaving now for awhile. Besides with all that is going on, I am off my game. I should have caught the Craigs List video sooner than I did.

Mageen – you know that I’m no friend of the extreme right, but you gotta have some rules. I’m assuming that you are not a 20-year-old wearing a hijab, and I would probably cut you some slack if I were a govt worker, but OTOH it actually makes me feel a little better that somebody was doing his/her job when they saw your birth certificate and didn’t like it.

I had the same thing when I went to get my 1962 Cessna inspected. The young mechanic thought the engine identification plate was suspect and caused me a world of trouble with the govt, because he “had never seen anything like it.” I had to call the factory and get an affidavit that all the older airplane motors had plates like that. He was just doing his job, but was inexperienced. Sigh……..What can you do….

Jeff Foxworthy said, “If you MUST show your identification to board an airplane, cash a check, buy liquor, or check out a library book and rent a video, but not to vote for who runs the government – you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.”

Pfesser, really! You jumped your horse over a solid wall without knowing what was behind it and simply made an assumption. You went straight to the “illegal” thing. Since you live in Virginia you may have heard of the Orange Hunt, a fox hunting outfit that was in existence some years ago. They had a pack of foxhounds. Those hounds always led the field. They were the first over solid walls. The hunt rode a bit behind them. That space not only kept them from running over their own hounds, it also gave them time to rein up if the hounds indicated big trouble on the other side of that wall. In other words, those hounds did the “research” for the hunt. I know there were plenty of descriptions of the obstacles ordinary citizens faced with photo IDs in all the states that were suddenly requiring them in order to vote. I am betting you also read this “research”. I’m not illegal. Someone simply did not like the looks of my original birth certificate, declaring that she had never seen anything like it. Hence the nail biting time waiting for a new birth certificate that I had to pay for. I am Anglo. Imagine what some of our native born citizens of non-Anglo origins had to go through in so many states in the recent spate of nasty, nasty game playing brought upon them.

Mageen – I think you made my point for me. You needed to have a driver’s license, right? And you had to document that you were who you said, in order to get it. No doubt that was a pain, but since the license is a form of ID acceptable everywhere, I think it makes sense to be sure who you really are.

I live in Virginia too, so I know the driver’s license you got has your picture on it. Now you have a photo ID, and the reason you have it is that you were able to show that you were an American citizen. It seems to me that the system, for once, works like it is supposed to.

Hi, Mageen – Exactly; you took the words right out of my mouth. Can’t believe that old chestnut about how requiring voter ID cards would “allow illegals to vote” was even put up here – to say nothing of the idea that “Democrats want illegals to vote”!

This has NOTHING to do with citizens vs. illegals. Hard to imagine that any illegal, living as under the radar as possible, would even consider applying for one, and the chances of his or her getting one, even so, is virtually zero.

As with almost everything in the “developed world” these days, it has to do with the “haves” vs. the “have nots.” As you point out, there are plenty of perfectly-legitimate American citizens who live in exactly the conditions you describe, sorry as that situation is. (Anyone who doubts this should read “Nickeled and Dimed,” by Barbara Ehrenreich, an upper-middle-class writer and reporter who spent several months trying to live as our average Taco Bell/Walmart Greeter/Merry Maid lives, and then wrote about her experiences.)

There is nothing “average” about having a copy of your birth certificate, a driver’s license, credit cards, bank accounts, ATM cards, supplemental medical insurance, and so on, these days.

Pfessor, there are a whole lot of born Americans who would have trouble getting a picture ID. They’re the ones without their own transportation or are at the mercy of poor public transportation that would take them about a half a day to get someplace where they can get a picture ID. IF they are relying on some level of government for the picture, they most likely will be required to bring along an assortment of identification such as a birth certificate or a passport. I had to spend $$ in order to get my birthplace in this country to cough up a birth certificate when my old, original one was considered unacceptable by the DMV!!! That took time, something a lot of folks just don’t have very much of. Especially if they can’t get off work to do all this during the week because they don’t have any leave benefits at all. Such benefits are going the way of the passenger pigeon. And when you aren’t getting much per hour and every penny counts, you have a really, really tough decision to make. What would work is if there were mobile places to get that picture ID. I was at a hospital recently where an admissions clerk came out into the waitng area with a rolling stand bearing a computer and went one by one to do the paperwork. This was a godsend especially for those who were handicapped and/or very elderly. This would certainly work in all those places in this country where an official picture ID function is available only a few hours a day on certain days of the week due to state budget cutbacks. And, yes, I was really surprised that you jumped on the illegals only can’t get valid picture IDs. I thought you knew better.

I’m not sure how requiring some type of picture ID is an “undue burden.” You absolutely cannot function today without a picture ID, so the average person would have one already.

The only person who might NOT have a valid government-issued photo ID is someone who cannot get it – which is to say an illegal alien.

And yes, many Constitutional amendments apply to voting rights, but those rights belong to American citizens, not illegals, so comparisons to poll taxes, literacy tests, etc wouldn’t seem to me to be valid.
,
The real problem, of course, is political. The Democrats WANT illegals to vote, because they think illegals will vote Democrat. The Republicans DON’T want them to vote, for the same reason. And THAT is the real bottom line.

This voter fraud thing is simply a “sanitized” version of the poll tax and other crap such as requiring a citizen to read aloud some part or all of the Constitution before being allowed into the voting booth. Sometimes citizens were forced to memorize all or certain sections of the Constitution. How about those instances lately where a boss told his employees how to vote? Brings back memories, doesn’t it? About all the times in the past when one eligible voter or all of them in a family were told not to go to the polls if they wanted to keep their jobs. Shabby, shabby little klansmen and their insistence on clinging to their putrid tactics! And they never heard of what goes around comes around.

Requiring voter I.D. is a solution in search of a problem. As Cynthia mentioned, there is no real voter fraud taking place. The right wing is trying to discourage minority voters because they tend to vote Democrat. It might be more productive for the GOP to try appealing to those constituencies rather than deprive them of their rights.

Hi, Cynthia – Sorry you’re in a foul mood! You still write calmly and logically, anyway.

BTW, you did fine today; if it inspired E.A. to chime in, all to the good. I made a list of those seven amendments.

And, no, it’s certainly not about “voter fraud”; it’s about voter disenfranchisement – a desperate attempt by what is rapidly becoming a disempowered “majority” to make sure that legislators represent THEM, and pass laws that favor THEM, and make judicial rulings that favor THEM – and do not reflect the rapidly changing demographic of the nation as a whole.

Since they can’t come up with any kind of “inclusive” platform, their only option is (evidently) to just make sure as many opponents as possible never get to vote.

Maybe have a glass of wine and watch “Antiques Roadshow,” or an old Fred Astaire/Ginger Rogers movie…?

E.A. – where were you when I needed you today? I could have used your help, thanks for the next time.
There are a number of issues that a person’s ID could be challenged with a photo ID especially if you want to – hair style, color, facial hair, scars, glasses, weight gain/loss or name change due to marriage/divorce and ???. How many look like their DL or passport photo? Documents needed to get an ID – not everyone has a birth certificate. My dad’s BC was destroyed when the courthouse burned down. My daughter had an army BC which created no problems until she graduated from college and want a passport.
You have to prove who you are to get a BC from my experience which could cause a problem for some. There has yet to be proven of massive voter fraud. Bush spent 6 million? looking for it and came up with a handful besides Ann Coulter and Mitt Romney. The few who do should not punish the many that only care to stand in line ONCE to cast their vote. But then it really isn’t about voter fraud, is it?

“Conservatives will say things like “you need an id to board an airplane or cash a check. Why not for voting?”

“Answer: When it comes to voting the state may not act to create an undue burden that will be known to create a disparate effect (even if the disparate effect has not actually occurred but is known to be such) on a group of people exercising their right to vote even if the act itself is not discriminatory.”

That’s not the whole story, and there’s actually a simpler answer. Voting is a RIGHT, not a PRIVILEGE.. I have heard, or read of, each of the following excuses given for requiring a voter ID, and here is my response to each one of them:

“You need an ID to buy Sudafed.”
Buying medicine is not a right guaranteed by seven constitutional amendments.

“You need an ID to buy a drink.”
Buying alcohol is not a right guaranteed by seven constitutional amendments.

“You need an ID to get into an R-rated movie.”
Attending a movie is not a right guaranteed by seven constitutional amendments.

“You need an ID to cash a check.”
Cashing a check is not a right guaranteed by seven constitutional amendments.

“You need an ID to get on a plane.”
Air travel is not a right guaranteed by seven constitutional amendments.

“You need an ID to get a job at the Justice Department.”
A job at the Justice Department is not a right guaranteed by seven constitutional amendments.

“You need an ID to drive a car.”
Driving a car is a privilege; it is not a right guaranteed by seven constitutional amendments.

“You need an ID to use a credit card.”
Consumer credit is not a right guaranteed by seven constitutional amendments.

“So why shouldn’t you need an ID to vote?”
Voting is a right guaranteed by seven constitutional amendments*.

Any questions?

*The fourteenth, fifteenth, seventeenth, nineteenth, twenty-second, twenty-fourth and twenty-sixth all deal, fully or in part, with the right to vote; more amendments deal with this single issue than any other enumerated constitutional right.

Well said, Cynthia. And, of course, boarding an airplane and driving a car are, to some degree, “privileges,” whereas voting is a right (as well as a privilege).

You don’t have to prove you are a registered voter to do either of those things.

In addition, if – at the same time you pass a law requiring voter ID cards – you are also moving to close down, or severely limit the open hours, of many locations where they could be available in poor, rural, or ethnically “loaded” neighborhoods… Then you REALLY have some disenfranchisement going on. And that, of course, has already happened…

“Conservatives will say things like “you need an id to board an airplane or cash a check.
Why not for voting?”

Answer: When it comes to voting the state may not act to create an undue burden that will be known to create a disparate effect (even if the disparate effect has not actually occurred but is known to be such) on a group of people exercising their right to vote even if the act itself is not discriminatory.

In other words, if the state passes a voter id law that applies to EVERY PERSON voting but the law will have a disparate effect on the ability to vote of Irish Americans, Jews and handicapped people then that law is discriminatory.

There is no way a conservative can accept this because he does not believe this.
A conservative does not believe a law applied to everyone can be selectively discriminatory.

And, what if such a law does have a selective discriminatory effect?
The conservative will blame the affected party and not the law, since SOME people have no problem complying.”

Anonymous/Chris Rea – Are you telling me Obama does not walk on water; he doesn’t put the sun in the sky in the morning and the moon at night? That he is unable to control all the people in the world. That everything he touches turns to sh*t. I suppose the world is coming to an end any day now. I need to ask for a refund for the trip around the world I was planning. Damn!

President Obama is an authoritarian with instincts toward vengeance and and punishment.

We know his Middle Eastern policy is in shambles, and his domestic schemes have perpetuated a high unemployment rate and poverty. Part time jobs are becoming numerous. His administration has targeted enemies for punishment. Obamacare, his signature legislation is crumbling.

First, Obama announced the government will countermand the law and postpone the employer mandate until after the next election. The Washington Post reported Friday that people dealing with the new insurance exchanges will be on the honor system for the first year. What could go wrong with that?

“with us all on board, and we can’t get off the train.”

And the road is built on credit
“…and there’s nothing you can do
Its all just bits of paper flying away from you
Oh Look out world. Take a good look
At what goes down here
You must learn the lesson and learn it well.
This ain’t no upward mobile freeway
On no, this is the road to Hell.”

Jean – I think the idea of Right and Left came from which side of the aisle folks sat on, not whether they were considered “gauche” by the conservatives.

Otherwise, I agree that the MODERN conservatives in the ReBiblican party can be pretty unsavory.

It wasn’t always like that, you know. Remember, civil rights were viciously opposed by the Democrats in the ‘sixties – do you remember Lester Maddox (Democrat), handing out ax handles from his hardware store, to beat civil rights protesters with? He later became governor of Georgia.

To my mind, the road to hell for the Republican party really started with Richard Nixon and his Southern Strategy, where he consciously plotted to pull southern segregationists into the Party. Then under Reagan began the policy of kowtowing to the Religious Right (I wore a button all through med school that said, “Moral Majority is Neither). For the ReBiblicans, it’s been a slow downhill since then, punctuated by periods of fast downhill.

Now look at them. Pathetic. But for those of us who USED to belong to the GOP, it is as disgusting as it is to those on the Left.

Haven’t been here is a while and the question “handout vs hand up” is intriguing.”

Your story is a great example of a “hand up.” I was recipient of many “hands-up” as a boy growing up in a poor area – my entire college was made possible through scholarships – yet those were available only because I had worked hard, and I only kept them if I maintained a certain GPA.

At the same time, I saw many of my peers, when they grew up, simply get on welfare and hang out, like their parents had. The girls had babies (paid for by welfare) and the boys hung out, hunted, fished and rode dirt bikes. I can’t tell you the times one of those people told me I was “crazy” for working so hard. They are still there, living up some “holler,” without two dimes to rub together.

They were given fish, but not taught to fish, as the old aphorism goes. It CREATES a kind of poverty – a poverty of spirit.

Right on, jsri!!! I’m with you and your families’ outlook on life. You are all obviously “Nurturing Personalities”.

Some time ago I put up this little treatise. Then quite a bit later, lori asked me to put it up again. I couldn’t find it. But going through and cleaning out some of my computer files I recently found it. It seems apropos right now. Unless we are political junkies, I feel it is more important to concentrate our efforts on ideas and concepts rather than personalities that come and go over time. Perhaps this is a good time for us to refresh our memories on what it means to be a progressive and give some ‘lib’ral’ food for thought to newcomers.

I do lots and lots of reading, more like studying, as it is one of the things I am interested in and like to do. There have been innumerable studies done across different disciplines on personality types – Psychology, Sociology, Anthropology, History and Philosophy, Theology, Linguistics and such. Here, I am paraphrasing in summary, however, occasionally using some of the exact same words and phrases.

Theses are a few of the characteristics that denote an “Authoritarian Personality”, how and why he/she got that way. This usually goes for all cultures, in all times, not just American or Western Culture. Starting with the family, the FATHER is the ultimate authority. He is big and strong and what he says goes. “Do as I say and keep your mouth shut – – or else!” “Ipso dixit” again. “Because I said so!” The opposite of “big and strong” is “small and weak”.

The FATHER’S job is to protect and provide for the family, a very tall order, which he takes seriously. When he is out and about slaying dragons and hunting for big chunks of red meat to feed the family, he TEMPORARILY transfers his authority to the mother. Fine. The kids misbehave they are doing ‘wrong’ and must be punished. “Wait till your FATHER gets home!” How often have we heard or said that? One of the ‘wrong’ things is tattling. Yet, when Mom tattles on us to Dad, is she punished? No. The kids are. A strange inconsistency. There are many, many more not-making-sense-such-scenarios.

The kids learn that someday when they grow up to be big and strong and are always RIGHT, they can do as they like and nobody can punish them since, by then, they have all the authority. There can be no “OR ELSE”. In the meantime, they mostly do what they are told and keep their mouths shut – generation after generation. If they do happen to do something ‘wrong’, maybe nobody tattles so there is no punishment. But they know they deserve to be punished, because they know they ‘done wrong’. (GUILT.) Still, if they can find an excuse or two or somebody else to blame it on, then they never were ‘wrong’ in the first place!

Where does all this authority come from to begin with? GOD the FATHER. (Dios, Dieu, Gott, Allah, Shiva – – – – different names, same concept.) George Washington the FATHER of our country. (Six feet four? Big and strong!) The Holy FATHER. Lots and lots of FATHERS!!!

There is a flip side though. The “Nurturing Personality.” Yes, there is authority and yes, right and wrong. Instead of blind OBEDIENCE and punishment, we have to fess up, express GENUINE remorse, make restitution and receive GENUINE forgiveness, not PUNISHMENT/REVENGE. There is a fine line between punishment and revenge. Demonstrations of LOVE and APPROVAL from the authority figures help the process along. This involves EMPATHY, the ability to actually feel and identify with the experiences of others – good, bad or indifferent.

(Example, the husband/boyfriend who gets sick as a dog when his wife/girlfriend goes into childbirth labor. My husband was kicked out of the labor room 50+ years ago when I went into delivery. He didn’t know what else to do, so he went home to wait for the phone call when it was over. He smoked one of the traditional cigars FATHERS are supposed to pass out when their child is born. As a non-smoker, he got violently ill and wound up in tougher shape than I ever was! I was kinda busy.)

Most people are a combination of the “Authoritarian” and the “Nurturing” personalities in different respects. In the current but usual political climate, there are the Traditional/Conservative/Right/Republicans and the Progressive/Liberal/Left/Democrats. Did you know that the French word for “Left” is “Gauche”? Besides also meaning “clumsy” or “awkward”, it has an equal definition – “sinister”. Uh, the Conservatives coined those definitions long ago. Uh, us progressives don’t toe the line as conservative authoritarians demand that we do and it pisses them off to a fare-thee-well!

Oh, yes. Then there is the “Compassionate Conservative.” In my book that is an oxymoron. It may have been a clever campaign slogan, but there is a vast, vast difference between “compassion” and “empathy.”

Carried to the extreme, in order to impose their will, collectively the Authoritarian Personalities have historically resorted to war with its inherent death and destruction. It starts off with the old story of a bunch of old men sitting around with their harquebuses across their knees and ends up with them sending young men off to die.

Right on, jsri!!! I’m with you and your families’ outlook on life. You are all obviously “Nurturing Personalities”.

Some time ago I put up this little treatise. Then quite a bit later, lori asked me to put it up again. I couldn’t find it. But going through and cleaning out some of my computer files I recently found it. It seems apropos right now. Unless we are political junkies, I feel it is more important to concentrate our efforts on ideas and concepts rather than personalities that come and go over time. Perhaps this is a good time for us to refresh our memories on what it means to be a progressive and give some ‘lib’ral’ food for thought to newcomers.

I do lots and lots of reading, more like studying, as it is one of the things I am interested in and like to do. There have been innumerable studies done across different disciplines on personality types – Psychology, Sociology, Anthropology, History and Philosophy, Theology, Linguistics and such. Here, I am paraphrasing in summary, however, occasionally using some of the exact same words and phrases (in quotes).

Theses are a few of the characteristics that denote an “Authoritarian Personality”, how and why he/she got that way. This usually goes for all cultures, in all times, not just American or Western Culture. Starting with the family, the FATHER is the ultimate authority. He is big and strong and what he says goes. “Do as I say and keep your mouth shut – – or else!” “Ipso dixit” again. “Because I said so!” The opposite of “big and strong” is “small and weak”.

The FATHER’S job is to protect and provide for the family, a very tall order, which he takes seriously. When he is out and about slaying dragons and hunting for big chunks of red meat to feed the family, he TEMPORARILY transfers his authority to the mother. Fine. The kids misbehave they are doing ‘wrong’ and must be punished. “Wait till your FATHER gets home!” How often have we heard or said that? One of the ‘wrong’ things is tattling. Yet, when Mom tattles on us to Dad, is she punished? No. The kids are. A strange inconsistency. There are many, many more not-making-sense-such-scenarios.

The kids learn that someday when they grow up to be big and strong and are always RIGHT, they can do as they like and nobody can punish them since, by then, they have all the authority. There can be no “OR ELSE”. In the meantime, they mostly do what they are told and keep their mouths shut – generation after generation. If they do happen to do something ‘wrong’, maybe nobody tattles so there is no punishment. But they know they deserve to be punished, because they know they ‘done wrong’. (GUILT.) Still, if they can find an excuse or two or somebody else to blame it on, then they never were ‘wrong’ in the first place!

Where does all this authority come from to begin with? GOD the FATHER. (Dios, Dieu, Gott, Allah, Shiva – – – – different names, same concept.) George Washington the FATHER of our country. (Six feet four? Big and strong!) The Holy FATHER. Lots and lots of FATHERS!!!

There is a flip side though. The “Nurturing Personality.” Yes, there is authority and yes, right and wrong. Instead of blind OBEDIENCE and punishment, we have to fess up, express GENUINE remorse, make restitution and receive GENUINE forgiveness, not PUNISHMENT/REVENGE. There is a fine line between punishment and revenge. Demonstrations of LOVE and APPROVAL from the authority figures help the process along. This involves EMPATHY, the ability to actually feel and identify with the experiences of others – good, bad or indifferent.

(Example, the husband/boyfriend who gets sick as a dog when his wife/girlfriend goes into childbirth labor. My husband was kicked out of the labor room 50+ years ago when I went into delivery. He didn’t know what else to do, so he went home to wait for the phone call when it was over. He smoked one of the traditional cigars FATHERS are supposed to pass out when their child is born. As a non-smoker, he got violently ill and wound up in tougher shape than I ever was! I was kinda busy.)

Most people are a combination of the “Authoritarian” and the “Nurturing” personalities in different respects. In the current but usual political climate, there are the Traditional/Conservative/Right/Republicans and the Progressive/Liberal/Left/Democrats. Did you know that the French word for “Left” is “Gauche”? Besides also meaning “clumsy” or “awkward”, it has an equal definition – “sinister”. Uh, the Conservatives coined those definitions long ago. Uh, us progressives don’t toe the line as conservative authoritarians demand that we do and it pisses them off to a fare-thee-well!

Oh, yes. Then there is the “Compassionate Conservative.” In my book that is an oxymoron. It may have been a clever campaign slogan, but there is a vast, vast difference between “compassion” and “empathy.”

Carried to the extreme, in order to impose their will, collectively the Authoritarian Personalities have historically resorted to war with its inherent death and destruction. It starts off with the old story of a bunch of old men sitting around with their harquebuses across their knees and ends up with them sending young men off to die.

just so you know, Sidney, I agree with Wright about the arms dealers and shipments to Egypt.

I also agree mentally unstable people shouldn’t own guns. When I was in basic training, our TI suddenly yelled “Hit the deck!” and we did. A recruit was aiming his M-16 at us. He was just being careless, but we didn’t know for a few minutes.

Sidney, you don’t know me as well as you think you do. Read my recent comments without your left – wing bias.

Is support of gay marriage and abortions really right wing? You are a victim of confirmation bias. How many right wingers support complete or partial financial aid to provide contraception to poor people?

Jim Wright is right about some things and wrong about others in my opinion. For example, “Proof of voter Fraud in the USA-from the horses mouth Youtube video.

Actually the testimony was about election fraud through computer software. According to the comments section, Republicans were involved too. Much of the testimony was theoretical and the witness didn’t know if “someone was playing with the vote” though they could have because some results seemed “scewed.”.

James O’ Keef with Breitbart registered under the name of Eric Holder and they accepted his false name. Of course he revealed his real name then. It was on tape. The Mail Online reported the scam on April 9, 2012.

Two Iowans were charged with voter fraud, though they may have voted because of a misunderstanding. 15 people in North Dakota were charged with election fraud.

Examples of large scale fraud are rare, but whenever a party loses a tight race it accuses the other of stealing votes. IDs are insurance to protect the process and they would make it harder to lodge false accusations which make the public distrust election results.

We need an ID to cash a check. I don’t see any reason why voting shouldn’t be conditional on identification.

I can understand your ignorance about me, because you didn’t think you needed to read everything I wrote. Or maybe you did read it and confirmation bias made you discount what I wrote, You thought you already knew when you didn’t .. It is “right up your (biased left) wing bowling ally”.

Cynthia…..it’s posts like that (the one with the attorneys asking questions) that really, really make me wish there was a “like” button on this blog, because that was funny as all get out.

James……did you really read the post at stone kettle? Really? The entire thing? The reason I ask, is because Jim could of been talking to you James.
Really! That was right up your rightwing bowling alley.

Hey, Cynthia – Some good chuckles, indeed! I especially liked the last one.

I’m currently the plaintiff in a personal injury lawsuit (not something I ever really wanted to do, but here I am), and had my first-ever “deposition” some time this past May. The stuff those attorneys ask – over and over and over again. And I’m sure my attorney will do the same in September, when HE deposes the defendant…

I was advised not to be snarky with “opposing counsel,” and I wasn’t (except for one little slip-up) for more than four and a half hours. It wasn’t easy, especially since we were talking about something that happened in January of 2011… But, boy, when I did that, the opposing attorney jumped on it instantly. It’s just what they’re looking for. You have to wonder if anyone has any interest, whatsoever, in anything like “justice,” or “responsibility.”

I’ve decided to attend the defendant’s deposition also. Just interested to see what he/they have to say. Should be interesting.

What an absolutely wonderful post! You’ve evidently raised your kids right, instilling in them values that they’ve passed on to their kids. This is exactly the kind of “hand up” I’m talking about, in every instance. There is almost nothing better than feeling that you’ve been able to help someone when they really needed it, and know that you’ve also empowered them to do the same thing themselves, for someone else, when they can – and display the confidence that they will. And they will! It’s the ol’ “pay it forward” thing.

Haven’t been here is a while and the question “handout vs hand up” is intriguing

Several years ago when our first grandson was a junior in HS he met a fellow student desparately struggling with math as well as English. He had come to this country years earlier from Central America where most of his family had been slain by opposing forces struggling to control the country. But he was also being kicked out of the home of his relatives here because they had lost their jobs and couldn’t afford to feed him any more. Our grandson took it upon himself to tutor the young man in math as well as English and even brought him home to meet his parents (our son and daughter-in-law). They offered him a place to stay as needed and even supplied him with a cell phone and a few dollars to help get his life stabilized. They also helped him get a university scholarship where he has now completed his junior year and has done very well in his courses. He now has a part time job to cover expenses and has moved into an off-campus house with a collection of fellow students. While he has offered to pay son and DIL back they have declined in exchange for a promise from him that if he is ever in a position to offer a hand to someone similarly in need that he will do so.

Meanwhile first GS is also a junior in college, – a math major. He had combined SAT scores (including an 800 in the math SAT) that would have allowed him to apply to just about any college in the country but instead of MIT or CalTech or an Ivy, he picked a college he wanted to go to and is doing very well indeed. In fact, he is now ending his junior semester-abroad program in South America where he is now proficient enough in Spanish to think in the language as well as understand its idioms and much of its jargon. His last side trip while there was through Peru and he and a fellow student watched the sunrise on July 4th (last week) from Machu Picchu. He will be back home next week.

Meanwhile, GS2 is no academic slouch. He completed his freshman year at an Ivy in a premed program and led every science class in grades. He is now a certified lifeguard and has promised to have his CPR training at the ready if WonderWife or I should ever need it.

Like his brother, he also recognizes that not everyone is as privileged as he is and while in HS became friendly with a fellow student whose mother suffers from severe mental illness and is unable to care for him. When our son and DIL discovered that GS’s friend had been reduced to living in his dilapidated car, they offered him the space recently vacated by first GS. They also fed him and gave him a cell phone in order to stay in contact and before graduation, our DIL helped arrange a sports scholarship for him at a college where he is extremely happy and doing very well academically.

I see bright futures for all these young men and I suspect that all will soon be true contributers to society even though I may not last long enough to see it.

James, I read Jim Wright’s post and it is right on. Here’s the deal, though. Everyone wants to be necessary, to be needed to do something whether mundane or significant. When that possibility is not an option, a person is likely to turn into a curmudgeon. I know people just like the ones Jim Wright described. When they are given something useful and harmless to do, things change and so does their perspective. It is, however, dang hard to find something for all of the retirees sitting in front of the barber shop to do. Some places in this country are just not set up to do this for one reason or another. Should Jim have told them off? Hey, yes! Its his space they are taking the liberty of invading. Invading means they weren’t invited. He just got dumped on. And Jim really, really values his years of service. Who knows. His reaction to these two particular guys might be just the bump they need to turn themselves around in a harmless, creative way. Just sayin’.

These are from a book called Disorder in the Courts and are things people actually said in court, word for word, taken down and published by court reporters that had the torment of staying calm while the exchanges were taking place.

ATTORNEY: Are you sexually active?
WITNESS: No, I just lie there.
***
ATT: Now doctor, isn’t it true that when a person dies in his sleep, he doesn’t know about it until the next morning?
WIT: Did you actually pass the bar exam?
***
ATT: The youngest son, the 20-year-old, how old is he?
WIT: He’s 20, much like your IQ.
***
ATT: Were you present when your picture was taken?
WIT: Are you shitting me?
***
ATT: So the date of conception (of the baby) was August 8th?
WIT: Yes.
ATT: And what were you doing at that time?
WIT: Getting laid
***
ATT: She had three children, right?
WIT: Yes.
ATT: How many were boys?
WIT: None.
ATT: Were there any girls?
WIT: Your Honor, I think I need a different attorney. Can I get a new attorney?
***
ATT: How was your first marriage terminated?
WIT: By death.
ATT: And by whose death was it terminated?
WIT: Take a guess.
***
ATT: Can you describe the individual?
WIT: He was about medium height and had a beard
ATT: Was this a male or a female?
WIT: Unless the Circus was in town I’m going with male.
***
ATT: Doctor, how many of your autopsies have you performed on dead people?
WIT: All of them. The live ones put up too much of a fight.
***
ATT: Do you recall the time that you examined the body?
WIT: The autopsy started around 8:30 PM
ATT: And Mr. Denton was dead at the time?
WIT: If not, he was by the time I finished.
***
ATT: Are you qualified to give a urine sample?
WIT: Are you qualified to ask that question?
***
ATT: Doctor, before you performed the autopsy, did you check for a pulse?
WIT: No.
ATT: Did you check for blood pressure?
WIT: No.
ATT: Did you check for breathing?
WIT: No.
ATT: So, then it is possible that the patient was alive when you began the autopsy?
WIT: No.
ATT: How can you be so sure, Doctor?
WIT: Because his brain was sitting on my desk in a jar.
ATT: I see, but could the patient have still been alive, nevertheless?
WIT: Yes, it is possible that he could have been alive and practicing law.

Thought for the day: a mandatory (transvaginal) ultrasound before a woman can receive medical attention, brought to you by the people who purport to be soooooo fearful of “the government takeover of healthcare”.

If you haven’t already go to stonekettle.com and read Jims new post.. EXCELLENT!

Fesser – Am I correct in thinking that you place yourself in your “third group”? No problem. But there is no need to infer that, by “caring” for the least in a society, I was recommending – or supporting – only distributing handouts to them, in perpetuity. I agree with you (!!!) that a “hand up is better than a hand out.” The great success of micro financing, among other things, certainly bears that out. According to Business Week, the average default rate on these loans is around four percent! As you say, people do not “want” to be on the dole forever; it is soul-destroying. Most of us want to be productive, connected, and considered valuable by our fellows – whether we were born in a tin-roofed shack, or with a silver spoon in our mouth.

A few things that many consider “handouts” – and I emphatically do not –include assuring a solid basic education for all; guaranteeing access to health services; the availability of work that pays a decent wage, in a decent environment; access to affordable housing; and short-term financial support in cases of an unexpected and unavoidable financial crisis. (By this I mean things such as a major health crisis, or the like – not a risky investment that went south…)

Were these things demanded in this country, I think we would be amazed at how quickly and substantially our societal costs for welfare, health care, incarceration establishments, and the like, would plummet – as would crime, drug addiction, racial and “class” warfare, and general human misery.

gato opined: “Seems to me there are two kinds of people in this world: Those who feel that society does best through competition, and the “survival of fittest,” and “pull yourself up by your own bootstraps”; and those who feel it does best through cooperation – that a society is best measured by, not how well the strongest are doing, but how well the weakest are. (The leaders of all the world’s great faiths, throughout history, BTW, seem to have positioned themselves firmly in the latter camp. I don’t recall any of the great “faith teachings,” anywhere, ever, saying anything like, “You’ll be weighed by your Maker on the basis of how many people you’ve trampled in your personal rise to the top.”

There is another kind, one that feels both models above are overly simplistic. That person believes that helping those at the bottom is very important, but also knows that simply dumping “aid” on humans is a recipe for failure, because it causes them to just sit down and give up. If you want to see such a program in action, look at the “Great Society” programs of the sixties – they have CREATED more misery than they have alleviated. I watched those programs destroy my own culture in southern West Virginia – turning proud fourth- and fifth-generation German-Scots-Irishmen into idlers, and their beautiful little farms into filth-holes, filled with cars up on cinderblocks.

Thanks Peas for reminding us of Jim Wright’s excellent Stonekettle Station and this newest one with his “Fallacy of False Comparisons”. DReed and Gato, that is the stock in trade we have been getting right along from trolls here with their “Confirmation Bias” and at worst “Cognitive Dissonance.” But the Right Wing/Tea Baggers can’t recognize those in themselves as long as anything treads on their deeply ingrained mindset of beliefs. I guess it makes ‘em happy, living in total denial. But I have become weary, spending time trying over and over again to refute that kind of thinking. I don’t feel it has much to do with education level. In the 50’s-60’s and 70’s I was considered very well educated with considerable higher education. But our two grandsons who just graduated from high school have it all over me when it comes to their iPads, phones and other electronic gadgets. (Rotten kids!)

I can’t imagine expounding on contraception! As a woman who had a medically necessary hysterectomy in 1970, I know nothing about the technicalities of it these days. So I’m not qualified to speak up at all.

AT LAST! The grand finale of our 2007 Russian Volga River Cruise.

I won’t bore you with the details of our cruise on up from Moscow on the Volga River to Lake Ladoga and then the Neva River to St. Petersburg. It would be something roughly like talking about a cruise from New Orleans up the Mississippi River to its headwaters in Minnesota. Suffice it to say we sailed at night and found ourselves the next morning in a delightful new (to us at least) town or city. Also, St. Petersburg is probably the most fascinating city we ever visited in our travels. It was our incentive to take this river cruise in the first place because we had been there before and wanted to go back!

Before we leave Russia though, I want to say some things about the Russian language. It has the “Cyrilic Alphabet” which is quite different than ours. There are some similar letters but for the most part is entirely strange to Western eyes and ears. However, it is the common written language of a very, very, very large part of the world where Slavic languages are spoken and read. This provincial foolishness of ours about “English Only” is a big disadvantage to Americans in a world becoming ever more global in scope and where vast numbers of ordinary people are multi-lingual.

We had a crash course on the ship in basic Russian. After our experiences, we wished we had paid more attention! I still have the sheets explaining the alphabet and English translations of some common phrases that would have been quite useful. I tried to scan them and put them up here for you to check out but I don’t know how to transfer them from scan to blog. So scratch that.

If any of you ever decide to travel to Russia or other Slavic countries though, I heartily recommend you bone up on a few rudimentary words before you go! I do remember one phrase from the course however. The pronunciation of the words, “I Love You!” in Russian sound in English like “YELLOW BLUE BUS!”

Hey, DReed – Good point. “Education,” or lack thereof, is probably not the only contributor to Confirmational Bias (a phrase I’ve never heard before, and which I like, BTW). Although authority figures of all sorts may have something of an advantage, I think we are all more inclined to agree with someone whose general world view seems similar to our own. One person, for example, may believe something “because Rush said so”; another might lean in a different direction because she “read it in Mother Jones.”

Probably none of us are actually without this particular bias to some degree!

>>Gato – I wonder – If an authority figure/politician says something that does not really make sense. Would someone who is “under-educated” think that it must make sense otherwise the AF/P would not have said it. And not wishing to appear or admit to being dumb they accept the statement as fact.<<

This is well known as Confirmation Bias.. People that express this aren't necessarily "under-educated".

Hi, Anonymous One – I’m not sure it’s just Republicans who feel this way, although that party has certainly become solidly identified, these days, with that position. And that position is: Once you’re born, you’re on your own. (I have no idea how a classic Libertarian feels about the “right to life,” actually.)

Seems to me there are two kinds of people in this world: Those who feel that society does best through competition, and the “survival of fittest,” and “pull yourself up by your own bootstraps”; and those who feel it does best through cooperation – that a society is best measured by, not how well the strongest are doing, but how well the weakest are. (The leaders of all the world’s great faiths, throughout history, BTW, seem to have positioned themselves firmly in the latter camp. I don’t recall any of the great “faith teachings,” anywhere, ever, saying anything like, “You’ll be weighed by your Maker on the basis of how many people you’ve trampled in your personal rise to the top.” Perhaps there’s a lesson there…)

Of course, we are expected to our own “footwork,” as best we can, but that doesn’t include walking over those less capable in whatever area.

Anon, I only know what I read about women’s reproductive services, and they show it is not hopeless for every poor person. $150 for a doctors appointment is still doable with the $11,000 minimum . The higher end makes it less hard.

For example, one could do what I did when we were poor. My noon meal was Kraft Dinner and a can of salmon with an apple or orange. If I got tired of the salmon, I alternated with hash. Soup and cheese sandwiches is also filling.

Don’t confuse me with other people. I am unique. For example, I think Planned Parenthood serves an important service. I am not one of others who want to be rid of it.

As I wrote before, most poor people can budget to pay for contraeption, but those who can’t should be able after passing a needs test get complete or partial help in buying contraceptives. As I wrote before, that expense would save money in the long run with fewer abortions and unwanted children.

A Democrat would also want a company to earn enough money to pay high wages. It was Henry Ford’s business model to pay high wages so his customers could afford to buy the cars they helped make.

High tax rates come from the business and individual profits and make harder to pay high wages. So do stringent regulations which are not all necessary.

Yes, 1988 was about right for the Cabbage Patch timing.

One good thing to come out of it was our son’s class had suffered so much from parents’ losing their homes or dying in suicides and accidents that in junior high they decided education was their only way out. They started their own no child left behind, and decided they would all make it. Our daughter’s class copied them. Both classes earned more scholarship money than any in the previous twenty or next ten years.

Thanks for the farm comment. Our problem was during the 1970s, and 1980’s when low prices, inflation, and drought combined to cut our income. John Melencamp sang “Blood on the Plow” about the hard times. Our court house lawn had crosses as mentioned in the song. A high school friend killed himself when he thought he would lose the farm. A couple of years, we lived on crop insurance.

Don’t include me in the group who wants to do away with school lunches etc. And I have already made it clear that I think people who have no way to pay after scrimping need to financial aid for contraceptives or fuel.

I quoted the minimum wage figures cited by the New York Times, hardly a conservative company. Minimum wages affect people who are working, and a certain number of poor people don’t have jobs either because of unemployment, age or other reasons.

Keyns would say there is a time for raising the minimum wage a time for holding fast. Raising the minimum wage now in a weak economy will not help poor people as the study showed. Of course people with secure jobs will benefit, but unskilled teenagers and others will not. Raising the wage in good times gives enough wiggle room to preserve jobs.

Small businesses which create most of the jobs do not have sky rocketing profits as a rule. They will not hire new people if they can avoid it as the study showed. Uncerinity associated with the future of Obama care is also creating more part time v full time jobs in many small businesses.

If you notice, we agree on some things.

Yes, the dollar has lost value over the years.

What crops did you raise? Our main crops are corn and soybeans. In the past, we had cattle, raised hay, wheat, and oats too.

RE: Grassroots Campaign’s Craig’s list ad: I wouldn’t be surprised if they aren’t opening a field office in Austin in light of the goings on in the TX lege. Again it is only common sense and pretty good business practice that they do.

I told you that the thousand plus payment was for field work, not demonstrating. What’s ridiculous about $12.50 per hour? I’d demonstrate for that much per hour.

You slipped up about Brietbart. That was the source which showed the high sum was payment for field work, not protesting. They interviewed Grassroots and clearified the stated purpose of the ad. So maybe Breitbart provides facts after all.

If they killed the ad because they were afraid, they were cowards. They should have aggressively pushed the memo in the pro- life’s faces. I’m still suspicious, but I am keeping half of the crow just in case.

Breitbart (and others like him) is being intentionally disingenuous, when he weaves these tales of paid protestors. He and others are purposely confusing “paid protestors” with paid employees” of these types of organizations.

I don’t know for a fact Planned parenthood pays 12 bucks an hour to some of their employees, but it wouldn’t surprise me. There are many tasks within their organization that seems to me $ 12 would be fair pay. I wouldn’t doubt those same employees would go to a rally ABOUT the closing of planned parenthood clinics across the state. Makes sense to me they would. But of course that doesn’t mean they were paid “protestors” .

I agree with you the whole thing is just another “look over here” diversionary tactic and shouldn’t be “discussed” any further.

“last post was one up manship”
WOMANship perhaps but definitely not MANship.

One has to question the logic of someone paying this sum ($1300-2200) to get someone to protest on this issue? It just does not make sense that Pro-Choice/Planned Parenthood/??? would spend these sums for a protest. And I find $12.50 ph is equally as ridiculous.

“better judge the actual strength of support for a movement and appreciate the protests”
Agreed.

“pulling the ad quickly proves they were embarrassed about it.”
Not necessarily, perhaps they found enough people? The ad came down because conservatives were making a huge issue of it, and that was hurting their cause?

You trust Hot Air, Breitbart and others to give FACTS. I DO NOT based on their past history.

James,
your recent post involving the quoted prices of birth control all only include the pills/IUD themselves, not the required OB/GYN appointment, or required blood tests, or hospital fees. So we are still back to at least another $150.00+ for the Dr. appointment, plus the hospital/lab fees, that poor women don’t have the cash to pay for no matter what “bargain” she can possibly find on her prescriptions. .

I love that included in that list was this: “Get your pills from Planned Parenthood.” They may be cheaper or even free.” Excuse me but aren’t those the same clinic’s that Republican’s are currently trying to close all across the United States? Why, yes! Yes! they are….and yet they still wonder why women are SO mad. I guess our hormones must be out of whack. It can’t be because we are tired of getting screwed over by the Republican’s.

As for the minimum wage increase I find that most people opposing it aren’t the same people trying to live on it. I have read a lot of the articles trying to find reasons pro, and con about raising the wage, and I have yet to find one that is really valid for not raising the wage, especially when you consider how cooperate profits are sky rocketing out the roof.

I would think that as a Republican you would want companies making huge profits to pay their workers a good enough wage so that those same workers wouldn’t have to be on food stamps, or their children be on government supplied medical insurance. Seems to me like that would be the more fiscally responsible thing for Republican’s to work on, instead of crying about their tax rates going up because they are paying for those entitlements out of government coffers, instead of making those same corporations step up their coverage.

Since you mentioned it I remember the “Cabbage Patch Doll” craze. It happened in about 1988, or there about as my daughter was of age to want, and get one as well. You mentioned you lived on $10K that year. Let me assure you in 1988 $10K went a lot further than it does now, and people are still trying to live on it because wages have not kept up with inflation, or huge corporate profits.

As for saving your family farm, good for you. I was married to a farmer during that time as well, Even though he was a Republican we were doing rather well living off his crops, and all the Government Farm Subsidizes he was receiving for NOT planting his fields. Funny how Republican’s don’t seem to have a problem okaying subsidizes for Farm, big Oil companies, etc.., but they have such a distaste for helping out with school lunches for hungry kids, or medical care for the indigent, and elderly since those are always the first things they want to cut. Sounds like a priority problem to me.

Mayor Suttle, a Democrat faced a recall election last winter and his campaign used busses to take Omaha’s homeless people from shelters to the polls. A man asked during a television interview when he would get his $10 for voting. It was back to the drawing board for Suttle.

I was partly wrong about the Craigs list ad. I did some checking. More farther down.

Cynthia, I enjoy arguing with you, because I like strong, intelligent women. My wife is one.That is not false flattery. Its how I feel.

If you think your last post was one up manship, it is interesting, but that is all it is. My latest comment on the subject was to Gato when I wrote “the right does it too.” I also told you it is unsavory but sometimes it is the only way to gather a large group of people. I also again wrote that the right does it too. So that comment is not news to me.

For example, Glenn Beck relayed messages about busses for one of the major Tea Party marches on Washington DC. This was when the movement was growing too big for its grass roots origins.

Google Salon.com “I was a political astroturfer” . Sen Benson invented the term in 1984.

I do think we should know its being done so we can better judge the actual strength of support for a movement and appreciate the protests as “performance art.” (The Salon article).

Grass Roots pulling the ad quickly proves they were embarrassed about it. The thousand dollar plus payment was for field workers and organizers, not demonstrators.

Hot Air wrote on July 1 that the ad went up three days after Gov Perry announced the special session. “Pro – choice Texas employees get paid roughly minimum wage to ‘stand.’ “The position ranges to nearly $12.70 per hour for standing around and yelling slogans.”

“Grassroots Campaigns stages these demonstrations on behalf of client organizatons like Planned parenthood, Federation of America, Move on and the Democratic National Committee among others.” Donations provide the money.

John Sexton of Breitbart called Grassroots, and they told him the ad was part of a fund raising campaign for Planned Parenthood. If that was entirely true, why did the ad run when it did, and why was it pulled so fast? I am still suspicious, so I will eat only half of the crow and save the rest for later.

I learned more which shows Grassroots is a business. Nothing wrong with that.

In 2006, a few former staff members sued Grassroots Campaigns for what they believed was money owed them for additional work on the John Kerry campaign. Grassroots paid them the federal minimum wage, but they maintained that since they were working in Oregon with a higher minimum wage they were under paid.

In 2008, some employees claimed they were fired for attempting to form a union. Both cases were settled out of court.

The Atlantic article Pfessor mentioned is worth reading.

I was a moderator on the defunct Janeane Garafalo message board. and a substitute administrator, so Jean’s calling me a self appointed moderator is a complement.

I just picked four quarts of black raspberries and after cutting some brush, I am making a pie. it will be a good pie.

I didn’t think that was what you meant Gato. Just makin sure. Lord knows we have enough twisted info out there no need to add to the confusion. 😉

It’s funny you should mention donations of junk food and water. LOL LOL Because during the Wendy Davis filibuster there was a tweet that went out asking for individuals to send food and water to the participants waiting to get in to the hearing. It was a spontaneous thing that happened with amazing results. People from literally all over the country started phoning in orders to be delivered to the capitol. Over whelming the poor local pizza places.

So the second time around (July 1) people were a little more organized and tweeted & facebooked the local businesses that would deliver. I’m sure the workers and business owners were thankful for the advanced notice too.

I personally participated in conversations about the google docs organizing carpools and busses to carry people (protestors) from all over our state to the capitol for the July 1 rally. We had google docs for lodging as well. People were offering their “points” for people to stay over in various hotels. People were offering spare rooms and cots, tents and RVs for people from out of town to use. No one was paid.

I have been working on campaigns all my life at various levels. I can honestly say (I know Im getting old and details slip my mind BUttttt) I know of no volunteer ever getting paid for transportation by the Democratic Party or the candidates – unless they were already a paid employee. Yes, I agree occasionally, the field managers will buy food or drinks, doughnuts,JUNK, lol for workers.

I have been a poll watcher scores of times, never once been paid, nor know no one who has been, from any Party. Now, on occasion, I would be a paid employee of a campaign and also as part of that job, be a poll watcher. But being paid for the sole purpose of poll watching – never. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, I just have never heard of it and considering I have done this for 30 plus years you would think I would have. Actually I think it’s against the law in at least some states.

BattlegroundTX thanks you for your kind donations! Believe me when I say, with Jeremy Bird at the helm your donations will be put to optimal use. It won’t be paying a person $2,000 to stand at a rally for a couple of hours. 😉 That man is one smart cookie!

Hi, Lori – No; I certainly did not mean that anybody pays actual protesters, but I do think that both sides probably pay for transportation (and maybe even sandwiches & sodas & junk food) to support volunteers. And they should! I know that was the case when I was working in our local Democratic office, on the phone bank.

The kind of thing that REALLY pisses me off when “volunteers” are paid, for example, by one party, as poll workers… To spot apparent opponents and give them incorrect information as to where to vote, and so on. In at least one instance I recall hearing about, people were hired to stand outside the polls with their cell phones, instructed to take photos of people wearing opposition teeshirts, and then send them to the “poll workers” inside, so those “workers” could do their best to deflect individual voters from casting their ballots. THAT’s the kind of thing I was thinking of.

No aspersions whatsoever on BattlegroundTexas! You’re even getting some of my money – and have all my respect and support!

Hi, Cynthia – Sigh… Of course, “they” do this, and I suspect “we” do, too; I would hope that “we” do a little less of it.

I remember, a couple of years ago, attending a “town hall” here with our local CT district representative, for the purpose of discussing Obamacare, then under debate. I was astonished that people had come from out of state, carrying their signs, to “oppose” what we, in our district, were trying to discuss. I was wondering, “What the heck are they doing here? This isn’t even their voting precinct…”

And all this, ALL THIS, not to speak for their own rights, but in an effort to make sure everyone else has no option but to do what they think is right.

Saw a great bumper sticker the other day: “Against abortion? Don’t have one.” It should really be that simple. Same with voting: Anyone who is qualified, and who wants to vote, should be able to do so – without somebody else putting their own constraints and qualifications on them.

Hey James my friend, whats that ya say about busing people from outa state?

“Now, we just need to hit our $20,000 goal to cover the transportation costs of getting young people to Austin. If you can’t make it to Austin with us, will you prayerfully consider chipping in $35, $50, or even $100 today?”

Don’t know if I mentioned it, but James turned me on to a good, but short article by Tom Friedman on why people are taking to the streets to protest democratically-elected govts. It’s because, when they get in office, they take their election as a permission to run roughshod over everybody.

IT IS NOT, and I fear – no, I hope – that the Republicans in Ohio, Texas and North Carolina figure it out, because if they don’t, there is going to be SOME KIND of civil unrest.

Jean – my Internet businesses are, with one exception, run on WordPress. If you would like, we can communicate privately and I’ll fix your gravatar. Then you can change your password (I’ll give you instructions.) and nobody will have access except you. No charge, of course. If you don’t feel comfortable doing that, delurkergurl is very knowledgeable as well.

Well let’s remember Donna Campbell was the person who brought the 3rd point of order against Wendy Davis during the filibuster. We now know about the elaborate efforts on the right to orchestrate the ending of Wendy’s filibuster that night and the GOP puppets who not so masterfully attempted those efforts don’t we?

So what do you expect? She will say ANYTHING, no matter how stupid, they tell her to say.

Gato – I wonder – If an authority figure/politician says something that does not really make sense. Would someone who is “under-educated” think that it must make sense otherwise the AF/P would not have said it. And not wishing to appear or admit to being dumb they accept the statement as fact.

I just read that article Gato! LOL It would be funny if it weren’t so darn hypocritical Right???

The paid protestor thing has been debunked thoroughly, so no need to apologize. Grassroots Campaigns and other Progressive “community organizers” don’t pay protestors. They pay employees for things like identifying supporters (which is EXACTLY what that Criag’s list ad states) along with many other campaign efforts. … Period. maybe Repubs have 2k to pay to individual protestor but I can promise you Democrats don’t! LMAO..

I don’t know how their minds work, Gato, but I agree with your comments. I already wrote that the right does it too. I have work to do, so I won’t bother you for awhile. Thanks everyone for being civil. It makes arguing fun.

An Omaha station reported a story on research which shows what slows memory loss and cognition with age. One factor is arguing on blogs like this.

Hi, Lori, and other posters – Let me digress slightly here, away from the “paid protestors” issue. (That, of course, is something the right does all the time…)

Great article in today’s Mother Jones about how, following the West (TX) fertilizer factory explosion, the TX legislature has decided to investigate – and regulate – abortion clinics. Their reasoning? Imposing and enforcing regulations and safety requirements on fertilizer plants would be… wait for it… “intrusive.” State Senator Donna Campbell said, “… there’s a point at which you can overregulate.”

So… literally… if you’re full of s***, Texas ain’t gonna bother you. None of their business. HOWEVER, if you’re PREGNANT, and don’t want to be, they’re gonna be right in there with their ultrasound wands, video monitors, waiting periods, and ad infinitum.

anon, I agree a wing of the Republican party is trying to force its social and religious views on the rest of us, but pro life Democrats would too, if they had the opportunity. They have been marginalized by their party and know they need to keep quiet.

If some states don’t provide the needed aid, people should prove the need to their representatives and make a lot of noise to change the rules. Such help should be temporary to avoid creating a permanent under class.

Do you have proof that mostly Republican business people fight the minimum wage? I don’t have time to check.

New York Times Opinion Pages ‘April 30, 2012. A 2010 study by two economists showed that 28 states which raised the minimum wage found no associated decline in poverty rates.

One of three reasons is “less skilled and less experienced employees lose employment opportunities when the cost to hire and train them as a result of minimum wage increases. “Research indicates, that on the whole, a minimum wage increase simply doesn’t help the poor–in fact, it hurts them.”

If the New York Times is accepted, Those who press for minimum wage increases, especially in a recession are hurting the people they want to help.

Lori wrote there were NO paid protesters. How does she know? The ad asking for paid demonstrators was made and Grass Roots took it down after pro life people began discussing it on FaceBook. Even Cynthia’s link mentioned hiring. The intent was there.

You can’t honestly rationalize away that Grassroots offered to pay protesters. Prove I am wrong, and I will admit it. I have done so before. I have already written that the Pro choice work their agendas too..

Most women in this country can afford the birth control advertised by Planned Parenthood. They can sacrifice and plan as we did for shoes or school clothes when we were poor. It also pays to shop around.

Go Generic The price of Ortho Tri Gycten is $41.9 on Walgreens website but the generic equivalents cost $27.99.

“Be straight with your doctor” Tell a doctor you can’t afford the drug, and he/she will prescribe the generic variety or give free samples.

Wal Mart, Walgreens and other stores have prescription savings clubs. Some plans offer a 90 day supply for $12. There could be a wide variation in that cost, especially if you are not on insurance.

“Stick with condoms” If you aren’t in a serious relationship, they will protect you from STDs.

An IUD costs $300 to $400 up front, but in the long run, it is the cheapest form of birth control. Planned Parenthood and other agencies might be able to sell it cheaper. If the average pack of pills costs $10 a month, an IUD pays for itself in three years.

Go mail order and order a 90 day supply for a lower copay.

A three month subscription may also save money.

“Get your pills from Planned Parenthood.” They may be cheaper or even free.

Use Pretax money, work with your company to deduct what you think you will need over a tax year to put aside that amount in a health savings account so it is prepaid with tax money.

ASPE. hhs gov 2012 HHS Poverty Guidelines defines poverty in the United States. It ranges from $11,170 for a single person to $38,890 for a family of eight. If one gets $11,000 per year and enrolls in a Wal Mart drug plan for $12 every 90 days, she pays about $48. per year. A $400 IUD is a small percentage of $11,000.

If we had made $10,000 in some years, we felt rich. Combined with my wife’s teaching salary, we lost $12,000 one year and averaged about a $6,000 income for several years, and that was with two young children. Our daughter wanted a cabbage patch doll, but we couldn’t afford it. She got on as a high school graduation present. We scrimped like that for about ten years, and it let us keep the farm.

The Daily Beast Women in the World supports what I suggested. if someone is so poor she is practically starving and can prove it with a means test, our tax money or other means could pay for all or part of her contraception. A study shows that it would lower the abortion rate.

I’m not being condescending. If a man or woman is in economic trouble, he/she should apply for welfare until times get better. It is a fact that most of the poor people I know around here are on some sort of government assistance, even if they are working. Some of my relatives were on welfare during the farm depression. We didn’t apply for aid because our parents taught us one survives on one’s own.

Finally, if a woman is too poor to buy enough contraceptives after the sort of budgeting I suggested, let her partner help. The Estonian girl who disappeared covered a song called “on’t Trust Me. In matters of contraception “Don’t trust them Never trust them, Never trust me.”

Most women are not out to trap a man as you write, but some are. Some may decide a man is a better father or provider than the man who impregnated them, Tey will convince someone else he is the father. It has happened where I live. Its true genetic testing makes that more difficult, but it has happened in the past. That is more motivation for a man to use protection too.

And anyone who has ever worked or been around a campaign knows that. Just more bullshit.

No there were NO paid protesters.

I have worked with Grassroots Campaign twice, that I remember. Once was when I was phone banking for a candidate, Grassroots Campaign was organizing those volunteers and then once when I was working a get out the vote effort. Grassroots Campaign is one of many “community organizations” that do a really good job at targeting supporters.

Thanks lori. It is being said that the pro-choice protesters were paid between 1300 and 2200 to protest on a number of conservative blogs – its all cut and paste. Sounds like easy money doesn’t it. I do understand paying someone to organize, do the networking, and the leg work to get out a message. But to pay them that sum to show up at a protest. I believe it is just another 1% truth and 99% bullsh*t. I found a similar Craig’s List ad for an environmental issue..save the forests I think.

It may come as a surprise that many states don’t have welfare (as in monthly stipends) for ANYONE, married single, with or without kids.

The Repubs throw the word “welfare” around a lot when trying to whip up their base.

What they don’t say is they consider everything from a $30 per person a month food assistance, to free and reduced lunches for children, extended unemployment, one time assistance for water, heating & electric bills, WELFARE. They want people to believe there are millions of “THOSE” people sitting on their behinds collecting unlimited monthly checks.

Sorry, I’m still not drinking the Republican kool-aid. It was previously quoted that the cost for a woman would be $10-70.00, then it was stated that every woman could afford that small amount per month. Trouble with that math, and amount is that it only allows that woman having sex one time a month. This might be a surprise to you, but women have the same right to be as sexually active as men. Which means she should not be required by her finances,and Republican’s trying to control her vagina to only have sex once a month, which is all that $10-70.00 would pay for.

Without the much needed Family Planning clinic’s that the Republican’s are doing their best to try and close, her only other option is to receive a monthly contraceptive pack. Having been to many OB/GYN visits myself I can assure you the costs are well above $200.00 for just the office visit, not including getting the prescription filled, or any required lab work which is often a requirement for said visit, and her personnel health.

This may also come as a shock to some but many states do not have welfare for single adults without children, or if they do it’s not enough to cover anything besides basic rent. While food stamps are available they cannot be used at a pharmacy, or a Dr.s office, I also find it very condescending that you believe if it’s a woman surely she’s on welfare.

There are many, many women living in the United States who proudly work, and yet are not supplied insurance, and who cannot afford that extra amount just to be able to have sex, and lord knows most are not out to “trap a man”, by having an unplanned pregnancy that she will have to make difficult decisions about..Hold on while I try to sip of the Republican’ kool-aid.

As for the pro-life Democrats, most of them are pro-life in their own lives, and are not trying to shove their beliefs down pro-choice Democrats throats and vagina’s like the Republican’s pro-life people are trying to do. That is how it is with most Democrats, you stay out of my bedroom, I’ll stay out of yours.

As for immigration reform, it will happen with, or without the Healthcare Act, and it would suit me just fine if the Republican’s continue to stall both, because if so they will continue to lose elections, and nothing could make me happier.

As for the business owner’s I find that it is mostly the Republican Party who refuse to help raise minimum wage, and don’t want to provide their employee’s with basic insurance coverage. Sorry I have to pour out the kool-aid, I still can’t swallow it.

I hesitate to jump in here only knowing half of your conversation. I apologize in advance if I misunderstood your comment. 😉 (I don’t read or communicate with trolls , so I can’t speak to anything else that is being said)

Grassroots Campaign is an organization (there are many) that do have paid employees that IDENTIFY new supporters by various methods. THE EMPLOYEES aren’t paid to “protest” . I can assure you EVERY SINGLE person that testified or sent their story to Wendy Davis to read on the house floor in Austin were authentic. In fact, part of the “paid employees” job is to authenticate the story! In a state the size of France you can imagine the logistics of getting the grassroots supporters to Austin in a matter of days not to mention organizing and verifying the stories being told. It takes a village for a grassroots movement! LOL LOL

The Repubs are just jealous they don’t have the ways and means to do the same thing so they create straw man augments.

No one else really needs to comment since the omnipotent self-appointed moderator here has all the answers. We have no problems that need to be addresses. Everything is just peach-keen. There is no racism, no sexism, no poverty, no educational deficits here in the Land of the Free, the Home of the Brave Old White Republican Codgers with nothing better to do than sit in front of their computers all day. Yawn.

Part 7 of my Russian Volga River Cruise tale.

Back in our cabin, my husband told his side of the story. He lingered a little too long in the men’s room because he had been having some digestive problems. (A little too much borsch perhaps?) When he came out, he couldn’t find me or the group. He had our claim checks so he retrieved our jackets and then wandered around in the crowd, trying to find someone who spoke English. He approached a couple of guards, but they just shrugged him off. “Nyet”. No English. Of course the only Russian words he had ever recognized there were “Pepsi” and “MacDonalds”. At length he found a Russian couple who spoke English. They advised him to take a taxi to a business building on Arbut Street that had a “Volga Restaurant” on the street floor. The man said there were bi-lingual people there who could help him. He wrote it down on a slip of paper and hailed a cab for him. If worst came to worst and he missed the boat – literally – as a last resort he could find his way somehow to the American embassy and create an international incident.

OK. He was stopping people right and left on Arbut Street to see if they spoke English. He finally spotted two young men, one carrying a laptop computer. One was Russian and the other American. They both spoke fluent English and Russian. Turned out they were Stock Market Analysts. Sure they would help him! They took him inside their nearby office, got on their big computer and found UniWorld’s headquarters in Los Angeles. That’s how they found where the “Litvinov” was moored. (Too bad my husband hadn’t stuffed a couple of those cards from the reception desk in his wallet with the name and location of our ship. You may remember I had some in my purse – in the safe in our cabin.) The young men asked my husband how he was fixed with rubles to pay for the long cab ride to the harbor. He didn’t have enough so they walked with him a couple of blocks to a bank and helped him use a credit card to exchange American money for Russian rubles. They negotiated with one taxi driver for a fixed price but weren’t satisfied with his fare. I guess you don’t just climb in and let the meter run or you might get the scenic tour of the entire city! They found a cab they liked and negotiated 400 rubles, about $20.00. In the meantime, my husband was having a high old time talking back and forth with them. They gave him some tips on the Russian Stock Market. According to them, the Russian Market was booming!!!

The cab driver couldn’t get all the way into where the ship was docked because it was in a secure area. It would be like trying to take a cab out on to the tarmac of a specific plane at an airport. But the cabbie knew of a pedestrian tunnel underneath the freeway further down from the ship. The cabbie locked his taxi and walked my husband through the tunnel to where they could see the ship, clearly marked “Litvinov”, about a half mile down the bank of the river. All smiles and hand shakes, they parted company (with a most generous tip for the cabbie!)

But….as my husband started walking alone toward the ship, for the first and only time of the entire trip it started to rain. The sky opened up and it poured! He had his windbreaker jacket on and was carrying mine. He still got soaked walking back to the ship. Just desserts! He told me all about it while he was changing out of his wet clothes.

That’s when we decided we needed a few things at a market we had heard about, so we took off on foot to find it. We had our passports and ship’s ID cards – and my purse – to get in and out of the harbor. The sun had come out and it was lovely weather again. There were no stop signs or stoplights on the highway (freeway?) and the traffic was very fast moving. You had to wait for a break in the traffic to make a dash for it to the median and then on across. The market was a couple of blocks up from the other side of the highway. We risked life and limb crossing that highway on foot coming and going.

It was sort of a neighborhood market, not as large as a supermarket but not as small as a 7/11. It was interesting to mosey around a genuine Russian market. Judging by the labels, probably about 30% of the items were of U.S. or western origin. Heinz Ketchup, etc. We wanted some Tylenol, but couldn’t find it in their pharmacy department and surprise! couldn’t read the Russian labels on their OTC’s. They had nice fresh produce though. We got some apples. We needed some bottled water and a chocolate fix for our little fridge and mini-bar in the cabin. Water was $1.00 American for a small bottle on the ship. We bought some Russian candy bars too.

We made it back to the ship OK with plenty of time to watch the sail away up on the sun deck at 5:30PM. That’s always a dramatic moment!

No one else really needs to comment since the omnipotent self-appointed moderator here has all the answers. We have no problems that need to be addresses. Everything is just peach-keen. There is no racism, no sexism, no poverty, no educational deficits here in the Land of the Free, the Home of the Brave Old White Republican Codgers with nothing better to do than sit in front of their computers all day. Yawn.

Part 7 of my Russian Volga River Cruise tale.

Back in our cabin, my husband told his side of the story. He lingered a little too long in the men’s room because he had been having some digestive problems. (A little too much borsch perhaps?) When he came out, he couldn’t find me or the group. He had our claim checks so he retrieved our jackets and then wandered around in the crowd, trying to find someone who spoke English. He approached a couple of guards, but they just shrugged him off. “Nyet”. No English. Of course the only Russian words he had ever recognized there were “Pepsi” and “MacDonalds”. At length he found a Russian couple who spoke English. They advised him to take a taxi to a business building on Arbut Street that had a “Volga Restaurant” on the street floor. The man said there were bi-lingual people there who could help him. He wrote it down on a slip of paper and hailed a cab for him. If worst came to worst and he missed the boat – literally – as a last resort he could find his way somehow to the American embassy and create an international incident.

OK. He was stopping people right and left on Arbut Street to see if they spoke English. He finally spotted two young men, one carrying a laptop computer. One was Russian and the other American. They both spoke fluent English and Russian. Turned out they were Stock Market Analysts. Sure they would help him! They took him inside their nearby office, got on their big computer and found UniWorld’s headquarters in Los Angeles. That’s how they found where the “Litvinov” was moored. (Too bad my husband hadn’t stuffed a couple of those cards from the reception desk in his wallet with the name and location of our ship. You may remember I had some in my purse – in the safe in our cabin.) The young men asked my husband how he was fixed with rubles to pay for the long cab ride to the harbor. He didn’t have enough so they walked with him a couple of blocks to a bank and helped him use a credit card to exchange American money for Russian rubles. They negotiated with one taxi driver for a fixed price but weren’t satisfied with his fare. I guess you don’t just climb in and let the meter run or you might get the scenic tour of the entire city! They found a cab they liked and negotiated 400 rubles, about $20.00. In the meantime, my husband was having a high old time talking back and forth with them. They gave him some tips on the Russian Stock Market. According to them, the Russian Market was booming!!!

The cab driver couldn’t get all the way into where the ship was docked because it was in a secure area. It would be like trying to take a cab out on to the tarmac of a specific plane at an airport. But the cabbie knew of a pedestrian tunnel underneath the freeway further down from the ship. The cabbie locked his taxi and walked my husband through the tunnel to where they could see the ship, clearly marked “Litvinov”, about a half mile down the bank of the river. All smiles and hand shakes, they parted company (with a most generous tip for the cabbie!)

But….as my husband started walking alone toward the ship, for the first and only time of the entire trip it started to rain. The sky opened up and it poured! He had his windbreaker jacket on and was carrying mine. He still got soaked walking back to the ship. Just desserts! He told me all about it while he was changing out of his wet clothes.

That’s when we decided we needed a few things at a market we had heard about, so we took off on foot to find it. We had our passports and ship’s ID cards – and my purse! – to get in and out of the harbor. The sun had come out and it was lovely weather again. There were no stop signs or stoplights on the highway (freeway?) and the traffic was very fast moving. You had to wait for a break in the traffic to make a dash for it to the median and then on across. The market was a couple of blocks up from the other side of the highway. We risked life and limb crossing that highway on foot coming and going.

It was sort of a neighborhood market, not as large as a supermarket but not as small as a 7/11. It was interesting to mosey around a genuine Russian market. Judging by the labels, probably about 30% of the items were of U.S. or western origin. Heinz Ketchup, etc. We wanted some Tylenol, but couldn’t find it in their pharmacy department and surprise! couldn’t read the Russian labels on their OTC’s. They had nice fresh produce though. We got some apples. We needed some bottled water and a chocolate fix for our little fridge and mini-bar in the cabin. Water was $1.00 American for a small bottle on the ship. We bought some Russian candy bars too.

We made it back to the ship OK with plenty of time to watch the sail away up on the sun deck at 5:30PM. That’s always a dramatic moment!

Happy fourth of July to you also anon. I have been poor, and we help poor people around here. We knew poor people in Europe too. Many of them would be able to afford $10 or $20 with judicious budgeting and occasional self denial.

I think those who are so down on the ladder they can’t even afford ten dollars are probably struggling to buy food as Jewel did when she lived in a car or Estonian pop singer Kerli when she lived in an abandoned house.

Surely most of them are collecting a form of welfare. I would use a means test to separate the deserving from scammers and let the government pay for all or part of the contraceptions. It is where the cycle begins and preventing pregenancies is more cost effective than abortions or unwanted children.

Men need to be convinced as some of us were as teenagers that contraception is for our own self protection. The woman might harbor a disease or she might be predatory with intent to trap a man. My mother told me that.

Yes, we have many stories of dead beat dads and also dead beat mothers. Life with a surprise child can get complicated. Adoption could be an option, but we both agree it is better for the child not to be born in the first place.

The Democratic Party has more pro- lifers than one would think. CBN News Politics “Silent Minority” Pro-Life Democrats the party Stepchild?” said on October 12, 2013 21 million pro – life Democrats exist. I assume those Democrats by definition are trying to stop abortion, and some own businesses.

Other Republicans like me support gay marriage and abortion before 20 weeks. Certainly others with businesses feel the same as I. These things should not be the government’s business unless people are hurt or at risk. Yes, Republican politicians do seem to be the main drivers in the pro life movement to influence policy. One reason is Democrats stifle their pro life people.

That we will soon have an immigration law is general knowledge, but the collapse of parts of Obama care leaves an opening for Republicans to change the law. That may delay the immigration law. I have read parts of the bill.

It will not stop immigration because right now, the border is not closed. Therefore newcomers will continue to move here legally or not. There will also be guest worker provisions. All of this insures a steady flow of low skilled cheap labor.

Its not just Republicans who operate on the backs of the poor. Democrats own businesses too, and they follow the same economic rules. Businesses purposes are to maximize profits, and business people of all parties do the same to pay their bills.

Cynthia, your quotation begins with “Grassroots Campaigns is immediately hiring passionate and motivated people…” “Hiring” is the smoking gun, People were hired. The ad was deleted, so one would have to find someone who screen saved the ad. “Great News: Being a pro- choice “grass roots ” activitist pays a decent wage. Hot Air July 1.

They offered $1300-$2200 per month. Bowsite. Com TX Protesters Were from rent a mob. That site quotes the same price though the ad was apparently not screen saved.

Congition Emmission “Texas Pro Abortion Protesters Were Paid Astroturfors.” That site also must have screen saved the original ad because it has the same offered wage.

This is not a scandal in the making. I share your ambivalence toward the practice. However, you have to admit that people working for a salary may not be the dedicated demonstrators organizers advertise them to be. All they have to do is pretend. The pro- choice people didn’t do anything illegal as far as we know, and I agree if one needs people in a hurry, the only option may be to rent a mob. I assume this opportunity happened quickly and there was little time to waste. Given the circumstances, I might have done the same.

I think a truly grass roots movement takes time. The Tea Party began as people gathering in living rooms and they attracted like minded people over a period of months. The Pro- choice organizers did not have the time the Tea Party had.

Yes, many money people usurped the Tea Party after they realized its power. Sarah Palin complained about the take over. Even so, independent elements remained active. Two were in Omaha and they were so hostile to each other that they appeared on local radio shows to bad mouth each other. Other parts of the movement coelassed into local and regional groups as stars do. They were basically still independent and supported themselves. Some of them were hasseled by the IRS.

As long as they are legal if unsavory, I think rent a mobs are good for both sides as long as someone spills the beans. Astroturfed mobs are not necessarily a true guage of a movement’s feelings, nor do they illustrate the actual strength of the movement. We should know that about protests.

If you hunt, you can probably identify the folks who chanted “Hail Satan.” I’ve seen the video. I don’t really care. In a way, liberals were hoist by their own petard. Back in the Tea Party days a few bad apples real or imagined were used to smear the entire movement. Now that something similar of the left is on video, the same applies to them.

I want someone else identified–the Estonian girl who with two friends, made four music videos in 2009 and vanished into the ether. Many teen aged boys described her as their first YouTube Crush, and they wrote that her twitter and FaceBook accounts are also inactive. Others have found the site and speculate on her possible death. She is like the Jimmy Hoffa of YouTube. The girl, whomever she is still has a following of over ten million. Maybe she pulled a Gretta Garbo or as my wife said was embarrassed over her videos after she passed twenty..

PROTECT WOMEN’S RIGHTS IN 2013! Grassroots Campaigns is immediately hiring passionate and motivated people to help educate the public and identify new supporters to protect reproductive rights. We’re working right now to: keep birth control affordable, oppose attacks on women’s health, ensure healthcare access and expand global reproductive rights. ooooh another scandal in the making, eh?

Where does it say to be paid to join the protest that day in Texas? I’m not saying I totally agree with this method but how does one start and organize a movement? The Tea Party was an honest grassroots movement? It MAY HAVE at first but then it was taken over very quickly by Rove, the Koch brothers. It is okay for the cons but not for the dems? Bullsh*t and barn apples!

What is the difference between this and paying for the bus and expenses of out of state conservative people to Democratic Town Hall Meetings with the intent to disrupt them?
Every blog that carried this just cut and paste.

James,
Even if the morning after pill is available at your quoted cost of $10 – $70.00, do you really think at those prices the pills will be available to the extremely poor? Should a poor woman expect to have to pay those prices just to have sex, if she can’t afford to go to a Dr. for a monthly contraceptive pack? I think not.

While it’s also the man’s responsibility to supply birth control often as not it is left up to the woman, and if a child is the result of that encounter too often the feeding, caring and clothing of said child are also left to the woman, especially if they are not married. While some dads are okay with helping raise the child of that encounter, we have all heard the stories of the “dead beat dads” who never step up to the plate, despite the best efforts of the local child support offices..

I understand that Democrats also own businesses, however it’s not the Democrats who are trying to stop abortion, other forms of birth control., or making up “ultra sound” laws. ..

The Republican party knows that they will have to do something about legalization of the illegal aliens if they have any hopes of winning many more future elections. When those worker’s become fully documented their wages will rise.

So the Republican’s will have to find another way to lower their employee costs. They will do it the same way they have always done it, on the back’s of the nations poor. So the more poor children/adults available for those jobs the better/cheaper it is for them.

If the wording will be changed to fertilization then it’s high time to look at our legislation regarding manure (aka: BS). You can bet the play on words can go both ways. Let’s get creative as manure can be highly regulated if I am not mistaken and can be used for such things as explosives. I bet this will work in the females favor in the long run. I must start researching this. Fertilizer! LOL……..

The war is not just on the poor but also on the independently wealthy women of our nation. These women are losing their careers and status as they fight to protect their children while becoming single through divorce or already being single thinking they were doing the right thing by opening their eyes prior to becoming a statistic of divorce. Punishment is deep and long lasting as they are losing their children to legislation and lack of the courts upholding laws such as perjury which would have shut down my corrupt case from the start. We need to get a handle on this and hold the wrong doers accountable. I cannot believe we as the masses believe or feel for a day children should be taken from a protective mother who is fit and given to a father with a criminal past based on bogus mental illness or just blatantly snatched in ex parte motions to the courts.

Women must know their value. Stop selling your eggs (they are bullets and a naturally concealed weapon) and start voting. Realize we scare the hell out of Republican Christianbots which is why they must go to such lengths to attempt to take control of our bodies and babies.

Independence Day! Orwellian. Have we come full circle, or what? Or as Yogi would say, “It’s like déjà vu all over again.”

IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.–Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

Sec. 171.043. DISTRIBUTION OF ABORTION-INDUCING DRUG.
(a) A PERSON MAY NOT knowingly give, sell, dispense, administer,
provide, or prescribe an abortion-inducing drug to a pregnant woman
for the purpose of inducing an abortion in the pregnant woman or
enabling another person to induce an abortion in the pregnant woman
UNLESS:
(1) the person who gives, sells, dispenses,
administers, provides, or prescribes the abortion-inducing drug IS
A PHYSICIAN;http://legiscan.com/TX/text/SB5/id/867548

James- the Texas proposal does not allow for medical aborticants to appear in one’s corner drugstore.
The cost will be a minimum of 3 doctor visits if the law is passed and enforced.
This whole dealie is a barrier for women of limited means getting abortions in a safe and TIMELY manner.

anon, I would use a medical source, but my statement referred to politics, not medicine. Red State reported on union tactics as did other news writers at the time.

Dana Loesch was making political, not medical comments when she mentioned five or so protesters chanting “Hail Satan” Videos of the chanting and other photos which confirm what she wrote about the chanting. Her quotes of polls was also political, not medical.

I assume them to be true, since I have seen other references to the polls. According to another article, a quarter of Davis support came from within Texas. I don’t remember where I read it, so I am not using it to support any arguments.

Both of these people had little or nothing to do with medicine. Therefore, it was appropriate for me to use them, because the point was political. I did not refer to them when I looked up contraceptive cost. I went to Planned Parenthood, because their information should be more accurate than two conservative bloggers..

My point was that the protesters ought to behave like Tea Partiers. It had nothing to do with the medical aspects of abortion.

If I had a medical comment, I would as you suggested refer to a medical source.

In addition to the “transpenile probe,” let’s require concealed or open carry permits; impose a twenty-four-hour waiting period prior to any penetration; make sure our children begin to learn how to “use” their penises as early as ages two or three, because that’s their god-given right (oh; I think that is already in effect, as it were); and make sure that everyone understands that penises aren’t “the problem,” mental illness is the problem.

I’ve already ordered the bumper stickers: “You’ll get my penis when you pry it out of my cold dead hands.”

Thank you for such an outspoken and accurate post! Maybe we can just get licenses for our vaginae an do what the hell we want with them. Wait! I thought we did have a license with Roe v Wade! I must have been mistaken!
Can these politicians not get it? I think someone absolutely should introduce a bill concerning penises. Let’s see…. No exposed penises. No penetrating penises without written consent. Any penises contributing to an unwanted pregnancy are to immediately report to their doctor for sterilization and the incident must be reported to the government. Anyone willing to bring on this bill? Come on lady legislators!

Anonymous, Republicans cannot stop women or men from getting contraception. I mention men because it is their responsibility too.

Planned Parenthood “morning-after pill (emergency contraception) The morning after pill will be sold over the counter in the family planning aisle of drug stores. The cost varies from $10 to $70.

I find aspects of the bill most troubling, namely the mandated required upgrades of facilities which though perhaps necessary for patients’ safety or not will deny rural and poor women the same treatment afforded to urban and middle class women. I also believe our government has no business intruding in our private lives.On that we agree.

I also want a stronger stand on fiscal issues, but now, Democrats are worse than the Republicans.

Don’t forget, Democrats own businesses too. Neither party needs cheap labor of uneducated un- aborted children when they can employ illegal aliens.

Here is another sign the protesters favoring late term abortions are on the wrong side of the argument and should keep the discussion on discrimination against the poor. Life News.com. A leftist group with ties to the Obama campaign produced an ad on Craig’s List in Austin. “Grassroots Campaigns” offered $1300 to $2200 per month. The ad was taken down on July 2 after news of it began to circulate among pro-life people on FaceBook.

Why would they do that unless they read the polls?

Cynthia raised a good point that sometimes problems won’t become apparent until around the 20th week. That may be true. A doctor hinted off the record that our daughter might want to consider an abortion about 15 weeks into her pregenancy. Thank God she didn’t. The law could provide for special circumstances.

If Republican’s can stop “poor women” from having access to birth control, and legal abortion what would happen? Many poor families would have a LOT more children, while rich women would still have their birth control, and would continue to manage their family size. Within a few years those same children from the low income families will also not have the college opportunity’s as their “rich” counterparts, and therefore will be forced into low paying jobs at many of the factories that are owned, and operated by the Republican’s. Welcome to the “birth of cheap labor” all in the good name of stopping abortions.

Excellent post, Helen. I used to be a Republican. However, over the past decade, they have all failed me. Every single one. I want smaller government on social issues. Stay out. But, I also want a stronger Republican government on fiscal issues. Control them. Oh, wait. Im biting the hand that feeds me.

They have screwed up our country’s finance to the point that none of it makes sense, no one can make heads or tails of it, and yet the circus keeps coming back into town.

Cut off a man’t penis? A most excellent comparison to these dim-witted individuals that have been *elected* into office. I weep.

As I wrote before, the pro – choicers should conduct themselves with firmness and dignity. To do otherwise turns off fence dwellers as union tactics did in Wisconsin and elsewhere. Preaching to the converted is not enough.

Dana Loesch Diary July 2 “Hail Satan!” “Other women aren’t buying it either,..polls show that women stand firmly behind Perry, not Davis. Red State has a video. A legislator alleges threats, but that hasn’t been proven yet.

This borders on the Wisconsin union tactics which backfired. The pro choicer should behave like Tea Party members to help their case.

I don’t suffer from cognitive dissonance but the jury is still out on you. I do know you suffer from ignorance. and I am happy to enlighten you as I just have.

“As a Texas woman, I would like to point out you do not speak for all Texas women, only some…”

As a non-Texas non-woman, I would like to point out that neither do you speak for all Texas women, only some. So, why not creep out from under your slimy rock of anonymity, make yourself a sign supporting your position and go out there and counter-demonstrate? Too chicken, Anonymous? Or maybe you think that as a good Xtian woman it’s not your place to be “uppity”.

As a Texas woman, I would like to point out that you do not speak for all Texas women, only some. You certainly are not s up for women in the womb. And as to your vagina fear, don’t worry. I wouldn’t tou

lori-
My state has what is considered a very strong governor form.
Will do some looking and get back here in a few days when folks have had a chance to comment on M and H’s great current post and leave some info.

gato opined: “However, I remain in disagreement with you – as do many others here – that the overall tone of Helen’s posts seem to indicate that “she” is more likely a “he.”

and then: — “I’ve known quite a few fine women, and men, who could parry with Helen’s verbiage without a moment’s hesitation, and quite enjoy doing so.”

Your two statements are unrelated, and again an attempt to slide in sideways the idea that I said that, because the author is smart and does a good job, it must be a man. And once again, of course I didn’t say that.

At any given time I’m editing three or four books, nearly all of which are written by women. Occasionally I will get a submission by a man with a woman’s name, and I pick it up immediately. There is a difference in style – even punctuation – and certainly sentence structure. It’s not 100%, but it is rare I don’t pick it up in the first chapter. I’m not 100% sure about Margaret and Helen either, but certainly suspicious.

Is anyone keeping score on how man times we have “debated” the abortion issue here and elsewhere and for how long? Oh, well, I hope everyone has a pleasant 4th of July Independence Day celebration tomorrow.

Here is part 6 of our Russian Volga River Cruise adventure in Moscow in 2007, getting down to the nitty-gritty.

Because of the priceless nature of the collections in the Armory, security was about as tight as any we have ever encountered anywhere. There were uniformed guards all over the place, inside and out. We did check our jackets in the cloakroom – for a fee. It was a rather lengthy tour as you can imagine. We had a nice lunch in their restaurant. When we left the Armory we were directed to the rest rooms before continuing throughout some of the rest of the Kremlin. When we went to the rest rooms, my husband gave me two American dollars because often there was a fee for using the facilities. I put them in my pocket along with my ship’s ID.

Usually there is a long line for the Ladies’ Room and my husband is pacing impatiently for me to come out while I powder my nose. However, I couldn’t find him in the crowd when I came out, so I figured he must have gone to retrieve our jackets while he was waiting. After a while, I then figured he must have gone to rejoin the group at our designated place outside at the foot of the “Tsar-Kolokol” bell tower, so that’s where I went. The group was there, but no husband.

We waited for a while and then one of the UniWorld representatives and a man in the group from New Zealand went back in to look for him. The man could go into the Men’s Room to check for him. The crowds were unbelievable! There were l-o-n-g lines, five abreast, elbow to elbow, waiting to go into the Armory. I thought about going back to look for him too, but I figured there was no point in both of us being lost. Besides, he had both our passports in his shirt pocket.

The group waited by that damn bell with the big chunk broken out of it until the man and the UniWorld gal came back. Nope. Couldn’t find him. The group couldn’t wait any longer so we pressed on to tour the rest of the Kremlin. There were several other UniWorld groups there with a guide and a tall stick with the UniWorld sign on it, 8-10 people to a group. We all hoped he would join up with one of those. Also there was a shuttle bus leaving at 3:00PM back to the ship. But we weren’t sure he would know where to catch it in such a vast area. Frankly, I didn’t pay much attention to the rest of the Kremlin tour. I was just tagging along.

The tour bus returned to the ship. I gave the guide my two American dollars as a tip and walked across the gangplank with nothing but the clothes on my back. No purse, no passport and oh yes, no husband.

We reported him missing to the reception desk. They assured me that he would probably turn up on the shuttle bus. The ship was sailing at 5:30PM. If he didn’t show up soon, I was going to call in the KGB!!! I went to our dinky cabin first but it was too tiny for very effective pacing. So I went up to the sun deck and chewed my fingernails off up to my elbows. After what seemed like hours the front desk paged me. (“Room 224, please come to the reception desk.”) I flew down those three flights of steep stairs and there he was, grinning from ear to ear. I gave him a hug but when we were back in the cabin I chewed him out. He had rolled in about 3:15PM, soaking wet.

I don’t want to Bogart M&H’s thread, especially since it’s so new and important. So Pi and MIOV, let’s put a pin in our “weak side government” discussion ok? I am eager to learn more about it. Do either of you know if any other states employ this form of government? I’m wondering if they are all strong red or blue states? I need to find some time to do some reading about this subject. LOL LOL

Hey, Cynthia – I heard that story, too, and find it pretty appalling. The woman apparently became suicidal after her “boyfriend” – certainly an equal partner in creating her pregnancy – left her. Why the hell isn’t HE being charged as the real “criminal” here…?

What if she had suffered some other medical emergency – and I do consider attempted suicide a “medical emergency” – and the same results followed: C-section, followed by death?

Why the co-creator of that fetus, the “father,” is not equally culpable in this situation – if anyone even should be – can only be understood by someone who thinks that ejaculation within another human being’s vagina carries no responsibilities whatsoever – nothing more than a “cozier” form of masturbation.

But when it comes to the “RIGHTS” of the “father,” it’s a whole different story. (See the heartbreaking narrative posted earlier here, by a woman who had to spend years, and every dollar she had, trying to prevent her daughter’s being turned over to her psychotic father.) In some states, even a rapist can petition for “parental rights” over the child he helped create, as a result of his violent, and criminal, behavior. And sometimes those “rights” are granted. Disgusting.

just some random-brain-firing of mine but like James said after 20 weeks or so peoples views change on abortion.. I have no problem with getting rid of a gob of snot but(without a medical emergency) someones mind should be made up before 4-5 months. that’s where the big argument comes in..If abortion is OK at 20(or 30 or 40) weeks why are people charged with a double murder if the mother is pregnant and killed? What is the real difference if a 37 week fetus is aborted or a 2 week old colicky baby is killed.(OK, 5 weeks)

However, I remain in disagreement with you – as do many others here – that the overall tone of Helen’s posts seem to indicate that “she” is more likely a “he.” I’ve known quite a few fine women, and men, who could parry with Helen’s verbiage without a moment’s hesitation, and quite enjoy doing so.

And, with that, let’s put this to rest, shall we, without going into details about who got a degree, or degrees, in what, and the relative “productiveness” of any of them.

I don’t really care if M&H are real. This is a place to meet. I decided long ago it is an experiment to see how people behave on an un-moderated blog.

There is so much incorrect, exaggerated information on abortion. Some of the disabilities/problems with a fetus can only be determined at a certain point in its development and that may exceed the 20 weeks. Then there may be a time period for acceptance and decision making. Unfortunately, not everyone is physically, emotionally or financially able or has the support to care for a child with disabilities.

Will we criminalize the use of contraception or a natural abortion or an accident which terminates a pregnancy? A despondent pregnant woman attempted suicide recently. A C-section was performed to save the fetus but it did not survive. She has been charged in its death in ???? state.

I am sure the private prisons are would love to see this happen.
In Texas a murder charge could be a life time incarceration for a teenager.

gato opined: “Pi – Sooo… according to Fesser’s line of thinking, if someone’s writing indicates that the person is “slick and well-educated,” the only conclusion to be drawn is that the writer is a man…??!!

Noooooo…..It said nothing of the sort. Go back and read it again. This time with comprehension. It said that, based on my experience as a book editor, I felt the style was that of a man, and that whoever did the writing was ALSO well-educated.

Didn’t you say you had a liberal arts degree, or something equally unproductive? Isn’t English a requirement for that degree?

gato-
🙂
I’m thinking it is Helen’s spicy language and metaphor thingy which creates the women-don’t-talk-like-that thing the most often.
Come visit, folks. My 2 surviving Aunts and my mother, all in their 80s, would make you laugh until you wet your pants and then laugh some more.Mom’s sarcastic laser wit , combined with the knowledge multiple undergraduate degrees, a law degree and years of real life experience have honed , will cut you off at the knees. The aunties’ hilarity and raw , blunt statements of fact are heaven made.
And Auntie N will put out apple pie and orange spice tea on her favorite starched table linens to while away the afternoon talking and laughing… 😉

James- I didn’t disagree with you.
I said the largest problem lies in the blocks to safe early abortions.
Requiring facilities which perform abortions to exceed physical plant requirements of other types of ASCs ,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outpatient_surgery

multiple doctor visits, physician administered prescriptions, followup exams all combine to create a bar which makes it harder to get an abortion for poor to low middle income women. Remember- women of means will not have to deal with this crap.
There is no provision to assist by way of low cost loans or anything else these current facilities to meet the physical plant requirements as would be expected if the Leg were to make a blanket change to ALL ASC providers.
These facilities are certified by Medicare and meet the basic requirements for shifting patients if needed but the TX Leg has decided that they want much more stringent rules for proximity to hospitals than are required of other ambulatory surgery centers…and the list goes on… these are larger and larger barriers.
It provides for post 20 week abortions for the life of the mother BUT creates barriers there too.
The folks who are ok with abortion in the first trimester need to get off their butts and put an end to barriers to poor women getting them in the first trimester.

Hey, Pi – Sooo… according to Fesser’s line of thinking, if someone’s writing indicates that the person is “slick and well-educated,” the only conclusion to be drawn is that the writer is a man…??!!

That very statement itself, in its essential absurdity, invalidates THAT premise, IMHO.

It seems to suggest that he has never heard a word spoken by Rachel Maddow, Elizabeth Warren, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Hillary Clinton, Sheryl Sandburg, Christine LaGarde, or thousands upon thousands of other women – many of whom are “grannies” – to say nothing of any of the rest of us here!

It might also indicate that he’s apparently never listened to Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Governor Perry, Louie Gohmert, Pat Robertson, Mitt Romney, Donald Trump… And on and on and on…

I’m sure his alleged wife – the one who perhaps, or perhaps not – runs the “small publishing company” for which he seems to work – was thrilled with his “conclusion.”

Alaskapi, I don’t disagree with you. I’m not from Texas, so the law won’t affect me or anyone I know. I already wrote that I think that law is too stringent and would deny rural and poor women the same choices city women would have.

However, a baby should not be aborted at 20 weeks even if it is the only one in the world as long as its life doesn’t threaten the mother’s life. The majority feels as I do. As I wrote, our daughter’s friend has a baby born at 23 weeks, and doctors comtemplating inducing labor for our grand daughter before 28 weeks because they worried that she might otherwise die.

This is an emotional issue, and emotional people will ignore the details. I believe pro- life people will twist this into pro – choice advocates as baby killers.

If I were running things, I would accept the viablity limit and safe facilities requirement. The position would make the pro choice group appear more reasonable and an ambiguous view would make them harder to attack.

I would filibuster against the rest of the bill on the grounds that by closing so many state abortion clinics, an unknown number of women would be put at risk. The government could help substandard places meet the requirements. It has spent money more foolishly than that.

It would also help if some of the protesters martyred themselves and went to jail as Civil Rights and anti- war protesters once did. They would have to appear to not incite arrest.

When you get down to the essentials, politics is largely numbers and PR.

Ha, don’t you love the insistence that this must be written by a man? Also that two grannies are unlikely to have the wit. Anything so sharply funny couldn’t have come from the minds of women, let alone elderly women…these assumptions come from the minds of those who don’t know many people well, let alone the variety in womankind…thinking every woman is somewhat the same…

Great job Helen!
——————–
Chris-
If you think woman don’t “talk” like this , you haven’t met the women in my family. Nor me. Lots of folks assumed I was a guy here – for a long time.
My Auntie N would burn your ears back… and with a great deal of the kind of humor we all love in Helen.

The Texas proposal not only requires that abortion clinics meet requirements for facilities which aren’t required for other ambulatory surgical service providers, it also requires that medical abortions be done in those far fewer( if it passes most current facilities will have to close ) facilities be a physician administered dose rather than a prescription one can take at home.
” (1) the person who gives, sells, dispenses,
administers, provides, or prescribes the abortion-inducing drug is
a physician;
(2) the physician administering the abortion-inducing
drug administers the drug to the woman while both are present at an
abortion facility licensed under Chapter 245; …”http://legiscan.com/TX/text/SB5/id/867548
It would also require a 14 followup visit after a medical abortion.
This bill significantly affects early , safe abortions .
It also pulls a fast one :
” (7) “Pregnant” means the female reproductive
condition of having an unborn child in a woman’s uterus.
(8) “Unborn child” means an offspring of human beings
from conception until birth.”
These definitions come very close to creating personhood problems we should be very, very wary of .

Important –
No matter what the polls are, most abortions, over 90% occur in the first trimester, with most of those in the first 8 weeks. The Texas law seeks to affect that by waving the at/post 20 week carrot and sliding in a number of barriers to early abortions.

“Women in their twenties accounted for the majority of abortions in 2009 and throughout the period of analysis. The majority of abortions in 2009 took place early in gestation: 91.7% of abortions were performed at ≤13 weeks’ gestation, and of the abortions performed at ≤13 weeks’ gestation, 69.8% were performed at ≤ 8 weeks’ gestation. In 2009, 16.5% of all abortions were medical abortions. Source: MMWR 2012;61(No. 8). ”http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/Data_Stats/Abortion.htm

It sounds as if Gato’s relatives went native. My wife and I also did when we lived in England. So did the Bushes.

A January Gallop poll showed that 64% of Americans think an abortion in the second three months of pregnancy should not be legal. 80% oppose an abortion during the last three months. A Texas Tribune poll found even more opposition from Texans.

“In Texas, the late term issue has boosted Governor Rick Perry who is considering whether to seek another term next year or possibly run for president in 2016.” “Polls now show him in a strong position for reelection against Davis or any other Democratic candidate.”

Now, Senator Rubio may may be the major sponsor of a Senate bill to ban abortions after 20 weeks or when the child is viable. I know from our daughter’s friend that a baby can be viable at 23 weeks.

This came from Fred Barnes of the Weekly Standard. I already wrote that I think the Texas bill is flawed, and Republicans are using strong arm tactics, but most people will probably ignore all but the 20 week ban.

Republicans are not attempting mass suicide as Pfessor and some others implied.They think rightly or wrongly that late term abortions will win them votes. It is also why the press virtually ignored the Kermit Gosnel case.They read polls too.

Rubio’s stand on the immigration bill which he helped write hurt him with many Republicans. His sponsoring a late term abortion bill might redeem him in their eyes.

Chris: “I still think this is written by a man. Women would not refer to their kind in such a negative manner. We have had a very hard time becoming the people we are, and do not need to be thought of in any negative manner.”

The question of who “Margaret and Helen” really are is a mystery many have pondered. I think you are probably right; I edit for a small publishing company, and after a very short while one can readily differentiate male from female authors, regardless of their nom de plume.

Whoever they are, the writer(s) are slick and well-educated; my own personal assessment is that the blog was conceived by someone in the Democratic party and is updated p.r.n. The idea that this is put out by two grannies is hilarious.

But no matter. This blog’s POV needs to be expressed. The blog-o-sphere is rapidly bypassing MSM accounts of America, and people can decide the truth for themselves in this free-for-all atmosphere.

I think my Boy Jefferson would approve. That’s all that matters to me.

Well, damn! Why do I get the idea that these pro-natalists are simply using that position to do what they really want: carry us back to feudalism! You know, that part of history where the muckey muck Lord of the manor ran everything, including your most private life while he wrecked havoc without consequence. There was even this thing called droit siegneur (spelling?) where he had the right to bed someone else’s bride on the wedding night just so the groom actually knew who was boss. These days, who the hell would ever want to be a vassel and campaign just for that status? Hmmmmmm. . . .

I still think this is written by a man. Women would not refer to their kind in such a negative manner. We have had a very hard time becoming the people we are, and do not need to be thought of in any negative manner.
Many men, as a rule, like to act like women, when blogging online, as they can say nasty things about women without recourse from women. If men would say the same things about women, they would be blasted.
I believe I know who you are………..Mster………..

Now that WordPress doesn’t love me anymore, I am “Anonymous”. But maybe some of you will still recognize me from my style and salutations even without the avatar.

Helen, I can’t express in words just what a tremendous service you are and have been doing for women – everywhere – not just in Texas. Shining a bright verbal light where there is deep, deep darkness. BTW there are plenty of men too who are well-informed and share the same views as yours and mine. It is only the 1% who make the most noise and up till now, have often gotten their way with a loud “Ipse Dixit!” and it was a “fait accompli!”

Where DOES the GOP dig up these dinosaur brains such as Bush, Perry and Kasich anyway? Most of us thought dinosaurs were extinct. I know. They turned into fossil fuel! The Big Oil Interests dug them up many years ago and has made bundles and bundles of money ever since. All they had to do was surgically implant a crank in the backs of those guys, wind ‘em up and off they went, spitting out whatever words were put in their mouths like the wind-up toys they are.

Well, no more. We are on to them. 2014 and 2016 are not that far off. We can vote in well qualified thinking people who can get the job done for all of us, both men and women. In the meantime we have to stay vigilant and not let the dinosaurs get away with gerrymandering, voter registration weaseling and their other myriad bag of slimy tricks.

Also…it’s important to note (based on thoughts from one of the commenters) that George W. Bush is NOT a Texan. Yes, he was governor for what seemed an eternity, but he was not born here. He tried to get into UT Law School….but didn’t have the grades or the intellect. Even daddy couldn’t pull those strings, he had to go to Yale where dad had some pull and they let junior in. During his presidency, he kept a Houston address and lived there one weekend out of the year so that he could “claim” to be a resident of the state and thus avoid the tax in DC. Just saying.

Hey, Shelby – Great to hear your voice. I guess the great silence is over, huh?

My brother & sis-in-law now live on their ranch somewhere between Godley and Joshua, outside of Ft. Worth. (Imagine how odd that sounds to someone, like myself, who grew up in Ohio, moved to NYC for eight or nine years, and then on to CT, and who now feels like a real “New Englander.”)

They used to live in Ft. Worth, which I thought was a great place – street fairs, art shows, great restaurants, the Stockyards, endless great restaurants, and – of course – barbecue and Billy Bob’s! (We danced our tails off…) And we’ve visited the ranch, too, where they always make fun of us, in a very sweet way for not knowin’ much of anything ’bout nuthin’… (Of course, my bro-in-law grew up in Rye, NY – bastion of all things “proper” and WASPy… So what the hell are HIS creds, one wonders, except that he bought a big four wheel pickup and has half a dozen chickens…)

So how can a guy who paints himself as a small-gummint libertarian think it’s a good idea to stick some metal rod up somebody else’s privates and take pictures…? He’d NEVER let anyone do that to my sis-in-law! Hey; go figure…

The “cowgirls” I saw in TX always looked like a serious force to be reckoned with… And YOU ARE!

Preach it, sister. I’m seething over here in Houston. Ready to vote that idiot out and vote Wendy Davis in. Texas has seen its share of idiot politicians throughout the years but Perry is almost at Dubya level at this point.

I keep trying to tell my former colleagues in the ReBiblican party: you need to let this abortion stuff go. You are shooting your foot, your leg and your crank off all in one swell foop.

But do they listen to me? Noooooo…..they just keep preaching that the reason they keep losing elections is that they are “not sticking to their principles enough” and that they need to be “more conservative.”

Helen and Margaret,
I am a die hard Fighting Texas Aggie from Texas A&M University. I am also one of the many pro-choice protesters who went to the Texas Capitol Building to protest this bill. I wanted to say that not all Aggies are like Rick Perry. He brings shame to an institution and a state I love. Thank you for writing this post. It needs to be heard. In Texas particularly, I can more easily obtain a gun than an abortion, and it needs to end. His treatment of women needs to end, and we need a new Governor with the backbone to fight for Texas people of all genders.

I almost had my rights taken away by Republicans who paved the way for a 9 time felon to take my 10 year old daughter away upon his release from prison with his born again status (religion-yet again). He’s a diagnosed psychopath with Borderline Personality Disorder. I want to defend myself right now but please believe he’s an A+ Conman. I am/was 22 year long business owner who singlehandedly raised my daughter for very good reason (murder threats to the child and myself documented and so on). I had excellent credit, not so much as a traffic ticket and she was an honor roll student who became suicidal and self harming as she’d never known a criminal and I taught crime was bad. She was put it forced reunification with no regard of preparing a child for something as huge as this. She didn’t even know him! A licensed psychologist who we thought was an ordained pastor since he played that part but later found out he’s unordained, and since had his psychology license revoked from his actions in my very case trying to help this man who’d never been on the birth certificate custody of the child! They got him a fathers rights attorney”s” who were also Christian and from the same church and they lied saying such horrid things about me to gain an edge and I am sure Jesus in every religion doesn’t agree with the lies and bullying a good mom that assaulted our lives like rapid fire for almost 4 years straight as the father had no thing better to do and was getting a job at 4 times any pay he ever made (never paid child support and of course our state waves back child support with stipulations. After it felt like I was in a foreign country, It felt like terror and rape. I lost everything I had worked for and supported us with fighting to protect the child with documented proof but his verbal lies when court is based on the honor system with a pathological liar (which doesn’t work well in family or any court for that matter but family court has a different evidence rule and it not only forces an innocent person to fight with money they don’t have to prove lies continually (when you’re not allowed to speak if represented) and it takes forever while a child is being destroyed in their developmental years not to mention losing all their friends, sports they loved gone, time spent with psychologists ordered by the courts from resisting due to all the wrong shoved into their innocent little lives. WOW!

This all happened with faith based prisoner reentry funds (billions are going to religious ways to obtain custody. They are getting laws changed and federal funding grants (our tax dollars) to do all this which also consists of infiltrating prison systems and giving them the means since he’s a born again bully with that bible and the child would be better with him. It was so bizarre. My friends were stunned. Grown men cried as my daughter told them her version of what she was put through but I won……..Even though she lost a very successful whole mom/dad who was a rock but now is but sand. We live in fear for the next 4 years as she is 14 now.

There are some serious laws being changed by Christian fundamentalists in AZ who hate mothers or appear to. They also seem to be harvesting children for their congregation as it appears taking other peoples children by almost any means and making them Christianbots, is best! No more freedom because their way is the right way.

I begged for help everywhere and was stonewalled but some of my first letters were to the Assembly of God in AZ (where this pastor originally came from) and then to the Right to Lifers with a letter explaining what was happening to a child who I didn’t want to abort and I hoped they’d respond with some type of advice or help but that’s not really it.

Bush signed an executive order when he was president giving federal grant money to the religious organizations! Our tax dollars to tax exempt religious organizations who members tithe to which is also tax exempt. I have researched much on these grants and that only got worse with Obamas increase!!! There’s something VERY wrong there. There is nothing good for mothers in the research I have found. They do not want women to be independent and support their children and men seem to be the favored parent due to be a man. It’s bad. The grants come from Health and Human Services. Faith based fathers rights funds is a good way to search some but they are starting to change the names to fathers and families and marriage is better type naming so it doesn’t show it’s billions heading to fathers. I have been watching it for heading to 5 years now.

We need to get the word out and your blog cracked me up which I thank you for. You are right on “the money”….lol

Hi, Helen, and Margaret – In my ranting and raving, I forgot to thank you for posting yet again. We just love hearing from you, always – and we love Margaret’s succinct replies, too, when we see them. You’ve given us all the great gift of your insight, your humor, and – yes – your mouth!

As I’m sure you know, your porch has taken on a life of its own. Cool, huh? Look what you’ve done… So many thanks to you!

M&H, what thou sayest! Women of resources will always be able to obtain abortions even if every such clinic is shut down in this country. They are the ones who have the $$ to fly off to elsewhere in the world and take care of business! This is a class warfare as well as warfare on women and the women who will be impacted the most are poor women.

Cheering you on from Ohio. I literally had not heard a single thing about what was going on- I woke up one morning and HuffPost said hey guess what, big funny on girls in Ohio. You can speak for me all your like as long as you keep saying things like shoot bullets out of my vagina, because if I don’t laugh I’ll certainly cry

Cheering you on from Texas! I’m one of the “unruly mob”, and have been burning up Hwy 290 between Houston & Austin the last two weeks.

I would like to offer one point of correction. Most contraceptives prevent fertilization from occurring. (not prevent a fertilized egg from implanting as you suggested) The confusion and misinformation regarding contraceptives is yet another example of the denial of scientific facts so common among those in the pro-life movement.

You go, Helen! Brilliant blog! I’m sad that you have to live in Texas, home of two of the dumbest men ever born–President Shrub and Rick Perry. Thanks for posting his college grades. The only surprise there is that he ever got a grade above D–in anything! But making fun of Perry can’t obscure the fact that his actions have serious consequences–from signing off on the executions of innocent people to returning Texas women to the dark days of back alley abortions.

We all know that if men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament and there would be as many abortion clinics as there are Starbucks. What I don’t understand is why young women haven’t taken to the streets. Why they aren’t occupying the governors’ offices in Ohio, Texas, Virginia, etc.

Oh… But wait… What THEY do with their stuff doesn’t matter. It’s only when their “stuff” comes into proximity of a female’s lady parts that anything begins to count. Do you ever get the feeling that they just want to do whatever they want, and then, if anything “happens,” they think they had nothing to do with it? (Ah, yes… It’s all up to us. In fact, nothing can possibly “happen” unless we want it to – if we don’t want it to, our bodies will just “shut down that kind of thing,” or we can get a rape kit at the ER and clean ourselves out, right?)

No wonder there’s so much mewling and squealing going on… Down in the back of the brainstem, a lot of men really haven’t a clue about how the whole system works, and their part in it, do they?… Why have we even listened to ANY of this, EVER…?

(OOPS; I must be getting even more angry… The capital letters are starting to come into play!)

The republicans have no qualms about abusing power when they are behind the wheel. They do what they want and and give the big F U to the American people. Think ronnie, think bush, DeLay, Gingrich and the teabaggers, they don’t want a democracy. They want a one party rule.

I think the repubs are trying to build up their ranks. Whites are now the minority in all Americans under the age of five.
I don’t mean to insult anyone, but besides the wealthy and religious the biggest GOP voting block are poor uneducated southerners.

I wonder whether it has occurred to any of those jacki that one way to reduce the need for abortion (or contraception, which they also reject) might be widespread vasectomy. Volunteers, any of you guys?

The quote from Matthew 10:14 ends with “shaking the dust from your feet” and doesn’t say anything about lying to “them”. Were you being facetious? If you had quoted it differently at the end, I would have seen the irony in those “ass hats” that are lying to us when it suites their purpose. Always love your posts, am a dedicated Christian and find it sad to be misrepresented by so many “so called” Christians. Keep up the good work!

By the same logic…male masturbation should be illegal since they are condemning their sperm to death instead of using them for conception. Also, they should not be allowed to copulate with their wives or anyone else for that matter unless the woman is fertile and conception is guaranteed. Just sayin’! Now go make those babies!

Reblogged this on herlander-walking and commented:
Since the WordPress thingie is refusing to “Like” and post this on my sidebar, I am having to do it another way. Margaret and Helen have a few words for the Rethuglican men in Texas and Ohio….

I live in TX now and so agree with you! Love the blog and you speaking out!
Just got off the phone with my friend yelling about abortion is murder and concealed weapons are a good thing! I jus t thought your title was funny and made the mistake of reading it to her. Yikes I should have known better. At least I have many reasonable TX friends I can have sane discussions with. Even if they don’t like adoration the don’t believe Perry or government should be regulating our bodies. I think that these men should be required to have a permanent shield placed on their penis’s so they can’t make a woman pregnant then they can control the situation. Ladies should that be the law, after all it takes two!

Dear M&H — just recently stumbled across your website (via TheImmoralMinority blog) and I gotta tell you — I just love it. I’m 62, and by God I remember illegal abortions, and “girls” being sent to visit their “grandmas” or “aunts” and coming back to school only to find that everybody now called them sluts. Hell, I remember when birth control could only be sold to married women (and you usually had to bring your marriage license along to prove it). I’m also old enough to be silly enough to think “Didn’t we already fight these battles?”

What was silly was that I thought we’d actually won.

Hope you don’t mind, but I’m going to pass your URL around to every woman I know. All women need to learn this stuff, not just Texan women, not just Ohio women.

Hey, Percysowner – I was born, grew up, and went to college in Columbus, at OSU. I was a Fine Arts major in the sixties, so I had my “politics,” such as they were, right where you might surmise they would be – same black turtleneck sweater for four years; reading Jack Kerouac; going to poetry readings, accompanied by bongo drums, in a basement coffee house; “sitting in” in OSU’s president’s office, demanding free speech…

Even so, I don’t remember Ohio being so far wackadoodle to the hard right in those days. If anybody’s wondering whether things are truly getting worse, and the Defenders of Aging White Guys are getting more and more desperate… They certainly seem to be.

HA! Wasn’t it Governor Goodhair himself who recently said something like, “The more they scream, the more we know we’re making progress”…? Well, THAT’S A TWO-WAY STREET! The “screaming” I’M hearing is, “Vaginal ultrasounds! Listen to the fetal heartbeat, or else! Close those clinics! ‘Good girls’ can’t be raped!’ Sanctity of life! Abortions no later than twenty weeks!” And on and on and on…

But we can’t afford to forget that there’s no animal dangerous than a cornered fear-biter… I’m mad as hell, too!

Perry and other GOP pols don’t care about babies…babies make demands on the system, and the Repugs are committed to lowering taxes and getting rid of social services that benefit pregnant women, babies, children, and youth. They don’t care that they’re ensuring more children grow up hungry, without adequate medical care, homeless or in bad housing, without a park to play in or a library to read in. The fetus makes demands on its mother, and the Repugs blame her if she can’t afford prenatal care. They sure aren’t going to provide it. So they pat themselves on the back for their “compassion” for the embryo and fetus, while doing not one damn thing to help it come to birth healthy, and not one damn thing for the woman, infant, child, or youth. No compassion where it might cost them and their backers a cent. Money for prisons to put those kids in if they aren’t perfect docile angels (while hungry, homeless, in crowded underfunded schools, while their mothers can’t find good paying jobs) but not a cent to help.

To paraphrase the NRA, when abortions are illegal, only (female) outlaws will have abortions. These amateur gynecologists don’t seem to recognize that passing a law against something doesn’t just magically make it go away. It just makes it more dangerous and more difficult.

Love you Helen. Thanks for being our voice. Matthew, there’s something wrong with the Paypal link in the version of the blog that’s sent to subscribers via email. I had to go to the donation site from the webpage. Can you verify the link sent in the emailed blog, please?

Don’t you just love the way the “good government Kristians” shut down the internet access at the statehouse? Their version of “open government” aligns with their “Protecting women” The only hope is getting women to the polls before a test proving you have a pecker is instituted. Just like when the constitution was originated, so if you are a true “constitutionist” of course all voters or “deciders” should be male’

It’s good to hear from you ladies, it’s been too long. You called it all as I see it in this one. I was largely raised by my grandmother who was born in 1916 and a lifelong, devout Mormon. She was also in favor of women’s rights, including access to safe, legal abortions. She, too, remembered the days when women died in butcher shop abortions.

As a woman from Ohio, I am not happy! I will work hard in the next election to get Kasich and his like out. Kasich might get out, but gerrymandering probably means the Legislature will stay staunchly Republican.

Completely agree with your entire blog, support you 100%.
Women be sure to vote in your next election and see the Republicans are removed from office and we can get our Rights returned. Oh, btw Doctor’s can then quit lying to us as well.

“I don’t even know what to say about his C in animal breeding. If the man can’t even figure out how animals reproduce, why do we expect him make rational decisions about women’s reproductive freedoms?”