You can't play the game at ranged, at least not on hard. Ranged is there only to trim down the horde but it is IMPOSSIBLE to do the entire game at ranged, you just don't get enough ammo and the Orks WILL overrun you. Plus, the Bolt Pistol sucks which is the only weapon you get infinite ammo on. (Would be interesting if you had progression and you can get a perk to give you infinite ammo on the weapons you like most.)

Fuegan, I think he means more like... a better melee system than "Tap X for melee attack" in a almost pure shooting game or a better ranged combat system than the guns in Devil May Cry. And he'd be right, as far as I know. Mixing melee and ranged is nothing new, but mixing it to such a degree as in Space Marine might be.

Unless I'm ignorant about other games that did exactly that.

The things is, if that's all the New&Exciting in that game... well, it probably isn't. I myself find finally being a Space Marine ( actually, **** them... I want to play a Battle Sister ) in a game more exciting than... you know, being able to play such and integration of melee and ranged combat in a game.

Anyway, there's so much potential for some really N&E things for a F/TPS ( or a RTS or a RPG or for Hello Kitty Online for that amtter)... and people simply don't seem to grasp that idea. At least not the ones that are actually making games.

And I totally agree on the parry thing. It's kinda... I actually can't believe that somebody actually thought a Space Marines would sooner ninja-roll than parry an incoming blow. Maybe he wouldn't parry a power sword with a chainsword... but I'm pretty much sure it'd be smart to parry a Choppa with anything save your head.

Question of the day, does blocking an attack with your head qualify as parrying?

Yeah, I figured that much out btw. What I'm saying is that they should have made the game differently to allow more firefights and such. The choice not present could have been there, theoretically.

And yeah, I figured the shield out. Coz I'm apparently not that daft.

The lack of medpacks should make it interesting, not having anything like a healing potion emergency button an' all. So I guess I'll just have to take care not to get into situations where I simply won't be able to execute some poor fellow or the other.

There have been countless games with ranged and melee attacks at the push of a button, DMC wasn't even the first to do that.

Best combat system ever.

That aside i played the demo yesterday and it is missing a few things. But it's a demo. It's not supposed to have everything in it. that's what the full game is for. A demo is just a preview/teaser of what you can expect. Who knows they might have jumping and cover mecahnics in the game. Jump packs have jumps so it obviously exists as a mechanic.

The levels are quite short and seem to be near the very beginning of the game. Based on the doomsday weapon scenario you are likely to see larger scaled battles around at some point. And there being a titan mentioned somewhere IIRC, there's no point just having it for scenery (TFW, Which had you fighting a gunship and more).

Ah, I see. You're right. Space Marines is one of the first to incorporate both to such a degree (although, there is gunslinger style :p). But as you said, that's not enough to base an entire game off of... that's where you START. That's the hook and then you have to wow us with what we experience, and I'm not wow'd, not in the slightest.

But lets be honest here, Space Marines greatly favors melee over ranged, by far. To me, they didn't even fully accomplish incorporating the two perfectly in the game, so really, they don't even have all that interesting of an idea or at least, not in its execution. IIRC, they were selling this game off as a hybrid and that you could choose the way you want to play... well that's kinda BS because you're pretty much forced to play the way they want you to play. Bad game design is bad and liar devs are liars. lol

So you're saying that Dawn of War had a bigger budget than any of the later games, including DoW2 and expansions? Because that was as close as they ever got to making a GOOD game. Everything else was pretty mediocre with Dark Crusade being the runner up to the original.

Opinions, yo. Everybody has them.

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Don't talk about budget because clearly they aren't breaking the bank with these games. They've proven they can deliver more, they just don't want to. I mean, tell me what's the first thing you think of when you hear 'Dawn of War'? If it isn't the very first opening cinematic, you're full of crap because that was as epic as these games have EVER gotten, and that was before you even reached the SPLASH SCREEN ON THE FIRST GAME! That was back in 2002, you telling me they can't exceed what they made back then?

So basically you like the first Dawn of War game, and think that nothing else matches it in terms of quality.

Good for you.

Don't pretend that you know anything about the budget of the games, though.

By the by, DoW I was released in 2004. Not 2002. HW2 was released in 2001, as I recall.

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You can have your poor standards of games but don't think we're going to follow suit and end any expectations and criticisms we have about games. That goes double for you, Gorb. This is a discussion about a game and that's what we're doing, based on what we have seen. 'Hurr, u naut c hool gaym.' Well, no ****. But I've played games long enough and I know Relic well enough that I know what to expect.

AND HE COMES OUT SWINGING.

So basically, just because I (and others) disagree with you, we have a "poor standard" when it comes to video games?

Hardly, Fuegan. It just means we like different things to you. This is not a crime. The games we like are not de facto awesome, nor are they beyond reproach. But then again, that goes for your opinions on video games as well.

Lelorelyn wrote:

However, I still think that it a) looks completely silly ( compared to to the big one) and b) the big one looks and is much more cool despite being huge and unwieldy(er).

Fair enough, that's your own personal opinion. I have my own opinions on the game, for better or worse

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Also, regarding the rolling. It's not unbelievable that SMs would (or could) roll out of harms way. They just do it a tad too fast to look believable in this game. I'd expect a Eldar to be that fast... but come on, this makes it look that power armor doesn't restrict their movements not even a tiny bit. That's not making sense, I could be wrong and it could actually be like that in the fluff for all I know -> and it still wouldn't make sense.

Power Armour really doesn't restrict their movements overly. Even the older Marks of armour (going back to Mk. III Iron Armour) were clunky, but they allows you to leap, dive, roll and sprint like any healthy human Olympic athlete.

There are two levels to Power Armour (barring the Black Carapace and any other sundry implants). The first is the auto-reactive, ceramite-based armour plating that encases the Space Marine's body. The second is a bundled network of synthetic muscle and associated servos that allow the Space Marine to wear the stupidly-heavy ceramite like a second skin.

However, if you cut through the armour and cut the synthetic muscle bands underneath, the Space Marine will suddenly feel the weight of that portion of his armour, and will have to compensate with his (incredibly sturdy) musculature and skeletal structure. He will, naturally, suffer in terms of his movement speed and flexibility because of this. But only if the synthetic muscle fibres are cut.

Also, Space Marines are roughly as fast as basic Eldar warriors (who are often described as "ghosts" by Imperial Guardsmen, in the novels). The novels support this, as does the Tabletop game, though I don't like referring to the Tabletop game because it doesn't reflect reality that well

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And, you didn't kindly respond to my question. What did you mean by that "FPS not RTS" thing? I'm still a bit baffled.

You are asking for a huge, wide-reaching game with allies, tanks and huge scenic levels of mass destruction. You don't get that in FPS/TPS games. FPS games are all about the player, the localised environment.

You want wide-scale warfare? Look to DoW I, or to the upcoming 40k MMO.

Fuegan wrote:

// walloftext snip

I get the distinct impression that you should obviously be the lead games designer at a top gaming developer, Fuegan. Either that or you need a slight reality check because that ego is seriously feeding into your posts.

Feel free to be disappointed at Relic all you want, but phrases such as "All these ideas I proposed would make both SP and MP sooo much more interesting because you have options in the way to play" just screams

a) egotism, and

b) "hi my name is fuegan and i'm completely ignorant of what MP combat entails". Your paragraph below reinforces this. You are taking your impressions of the SP game mode and for some god-unknown reason, applying it to MP. This isn't Halo; there isn't a 1-to-1 equivalence for weapon effectiveness in SP and MP.

Fuegan wrote:

But lets be honest here, Space Marines greatly favors melee over ranged, by far. To me, they didn't even fully accomplish incorporating the two perfectly in the game, so really, they don't even have all that interesting of an idea or at least, not in its execution. IIRC, they were selling this game off as a hybrid and that you could choose the way you want to play... well that's kinda BS because you're pretty much forced to play the way they want you to play. Bad game design is bad and liar devs are liars. lol

This game is a hybrid. You can choose how you want to play the game. If you're playing on Hard, suck it up. They have to increase the difficulty somehow, and barring the Bolt Pistol the only weapon(s) that has infinite ammo is your melee weapon.

I played the SP mode on Normal, and I could pure-melee a level (within reason, groups of 'Ard Boyz were . . . suicide with just melee), or pure-ranged a level, or mix it up.

I played four hours of MP with all the perks, weapons and all three classes unlocked, and I kept on swapping between the Assault Class and the Tactical class (with a Meltagun and no melee perks). I tried out the Devastator class, but I've never been a fan of static gameplay - I had some fun camping/sniping with the Lascannon, but that was about it. All three classes are viable and the viability of each class goes up and down depending on the weapon loadouts of the players ingame. For example, I became quite adept at surprise-faceraping Assault/Raptor players with my Meltagun (with the reduced reload/recharge perk). However, if I missed with the initial assault, the unbreakable melee chain of three attacks (five with the Power Axe) kills me dead. Just like that.

Let's be honest. You haven't played MP at all, and you're projecting your disappointment with the demo onto the full game with no regard for the actual gameplay. At best, you're using the game as an excuse to rant about how awesome you are at games design. Which, of course, you could well be. I love the direction you're taking FoK for Dark Crusade in, I really do.

But Christ, some humility would work wonders. And maybe drop the sarcasm whenever somebody dares disagree with you.

Heh, it's like I'm preaching to myself, a few years back. Only a few years back I was terrible at games design and the like

EDIT: forgot about your parry suggestion. Seen it suggested before, disagreed with it. This game doesn't need a parrying option because there are plenty of counters to melee as it is without making it even harder for melee classes to get a kill.

You can interrupt enemy melee attacks with your own melee attacks of the same class (there are three; light, medium and heavy), I think.

You are asking for a huge, wide-reaching game with allies, tanks and huge scenic levels of mass destruction. You don't get that in FPS/TPS games. FPS games are all about the player, the localised environment.

You want wide-scale warfare? Look to DoW I, or to the upcoming 40k MMO.

No, actually I want large-scale warfare... in a F/TPS.

See, truth is that shooting games tend to be... well, like they are. And they don't have to be like that!

Actually some aren't all the way trough. I think I recall one of those CoDs having parts that were actually more like participating in a battle and less like running around with a team and shooting stuff. That... what was it... Russian invasion of the US, right? I think those parts were kind of like what I'm wanting for a 40k game. But just kind of, I don't recall them as being all that awesome tbh.

Anyway, why is it hard to imagine that having a FPS where you're participating in a massive battle is even remotely possible?

Because it could be done. Mind blowing idea. It. Could. Be. Done. Wow.

And, let's say somebody would do something like that and even execute it properly... is it hard to believe that it would be nothing short of awesome? Maybe at least fun? For like... I dunno, at least a couple of hours?

Btw, I think your suggestion to go play a RTS when I'm talking about whatI'mtalkingaboutgoddamnit is kind of funny.

I mean, looking at a battlefield from above is the same as actually walking on one? No, I just don't get it.

Well your suggestion has merit in that the maps for Space Marine are really, really, really, damned large. I don't know how far up the skybox actually is, but given some of the environment props (the crane being commandeered by the Orks, for example) are frigging huge then I'm guessing the maps are suitably large. You could simulate bombing runs, atmospheric aircraft . . . there is room for the odd tank, etc.

However, all of that is simply more work for Relic. Also, it would diminish the intended impact of "three Space Marines go to save a Forge World". It might not be incredibly realistic, but Relic want two things:

1. for the game to run on reasonable hardware, and

2. for the player to feel like a seven/eight foot god of war smashing through hordes of lesser enemies.

If you add more allies, it means you have to up the number and/or complexity of the enemies to compensate. Which is a lot more work, as I already mentioned, and would likely increase the demand on your system's hardware.

So Gorb, are you as much of a waste of space as you look like you are?

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Opinions, yo. Everybody has them.

I guess that's a yes. You wanna actually add something to the conversation?

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So basically you like the first Dawn of War game, and think that nothing else matches it in terms of quality.

Good for you.

The only DoW game with GotY. Yeah, I think some other people might agree it was the best...

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So basically, just because I (and others) disagree with you, we have a "poor standard" when it comes to video games?

Someone with poor standards is someone who has to get aggressive to stand up for a game and be a fanboy with no perspective since they have their own head up their ass.

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Fair enough, that's your own personal opinion. I have my own opinions on the game, for better or worse

You wanna give them? Because right now you're just a waste of space.

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I get the distinct impression that you should obviously be the lead games designer at a top gaming developer, Fuegan. Either that or you need a slight reality check because that ego is seriously feeding into your posts.

Says someone who says nothing in his posts and thinks we should all care.

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b) "hi my name is fuegan and i'm completely ignorant of what MP combat entails". Your paragraph below reinforces this. You are taking your impressions of the SP game mode and for some god-unknown reason, applying it to MP. This isn't Halo; there isn't a 1-to-1 equivalence for weapon effectiveness in SP and MP.

No, I took it from the dev diaries. They themselves said that each weapon will remain useful and that it was up to the player which they want to use. You saying Relic are a bunch of liars? This was a very recent video too.

Well, you're so determined that MP is the real deal and that it's going to surprise me and I'll be blown away (that's what you're insinuating anyway), then lets wait and see if I'm right or wrong. If I'm right, I never want to hear of word of snark out of you for as long as you're moderating here. So don't compare myself to you; I'm pretty honest with myself and I can own up to being wrong and admit it, same way I can admit to saying a game I stood up for is garbage and well below my expectations (something that's pretty much the opposite of a fanboy).

Anyway, you wanna leave us folks be and actually talk about Space Marines without having a large wall of useless snark that adds nothing? (Snark me and you get snark in return.) Thanks.

The hilarious thing about your entire post is that it fulfills your criteria for someone having poor standards:

Fuegan wrote:

Someone with poor standards is someone who has to get aggressive to stand up for a game and be a fanboy with no perspective since they have their own head up their ass.

Except that of course you're fanboying over your own opinions and/or beliefs with regards to your competency at games design, and getting aggressive at me for no particular reason (I suppose I was hostile as well, but then again you were in turn prior to my posting, so go figure who started this shindig).

I've given plenty of my own views in this game, on this forum and on others. Try actually reading them instead of dismissing my posts as a "waste of space". I'll note that you didn't bother replying to any of my paragraphs on MP.

With regards to SP weaponry, all of them are useful in their own way. The melee weapons scale in a quite straightforward manner (for example, I can't see how the Chainsword is better than the Power Axe, but I suspect is it simply more effective against various targets), but most of the ranged weapons are interchangeable and thus useful all of the way through the Campaign. At least from what I experienced.

Once you get the hang of the Vengeance Launcher, you realise it's the best ranged weapon in the game. In SP, that is. I still prefer the Meltagun in MP.

Yeah, I know that they have their own ideas on what they want to do with their games. Sadly they don't match my ideas of what I'd like to play. To be honest, I'd play a Battle Sister over a Space Marine and a Banshee over that.

I don't get to play that. I get to play a Space Marine in... Kratos mode. And then I figure out that the game itself doesn't match what I'd like to play or what I'd find appropriate. And I am being kinda whiny about it, and I do suppose it's kinda pathetic. Well, sucks to be me I guess.

Anyway, regarding system demands... I think I probably wouldn't mind. It would suck if it was awesome and I couldn't play it. But it not being as awesome and me being able to play it... well, that'd suck too.

As for 2., years back I started to think that it's some sort of male thing. I mean, I don't really feel like I need to be put into the shoes of a... a Kratos ( who kills gods for lolz, afaik) to have fun in a game. I think it would be more authentic if it weren't 3 war gods on a stroll but rather... you know.

I'm not really thrilled with what they did for a 40k shooter. So far, at least. Though I doubt the full game is gonna be much different. La-la-la.

Not really, tbh i play games for skill and specific genre's some days its assassins creed to be a lean deadly blade, some days its space marine to be a big meat head who can simply smash **** up, when it comes to online versus modes where points and winning matter id take on any role, from devestator to SOB if it meant I had a shot at being best in that scenario.

And isn't really sexist, just when you look at it typically the stats are like 1/7 gamers are female or play different style of games from say action and bloody gore to nice civil games like mariokart racing and stuff (which i love btw :3)

Just like the current assassins creed games, if in the next instance they were to make the lead character female i'd be a bit miffed cuz I do prefere my heroes to be of the same gender but even if it;s a woman i'd still play because I love the story and the game engine

Problem with female heroes is that it usually ends up being, 'HOW BIG CAN WE MAKE THESE BEWBS'. I'm not a prude or anything, but when the game goes out of its way to remind me she's female with big boobs up in my face, then it takes me out of the experience really fast and I can't fully appreciate the game. You can't have your main character be fan service, unless you're not taking the game seriously at all and plan for it to bomb anyway.

Why is it when I come to this thread or any other its more bitching? Anyways I like the game the way it is based on the demo. Im sure we can all one day dream of a game were you lead hundreds of marines and tanks into a ork horde. that's just not the game it is and talking about what it could of done better does nothing now. Just don't pick it up if your looking for the larger scale warfare. Battlefield 3 might be something more to your likeing. I really don't have very many complaints for the game though I wish I could of got a multiplayer demo because that looks like a lot of fun.

_________________Cold and fast Soul Drinkers!

Derp Banshees are supposed to beat stuff like Terminators in CC. Herp a derp. - Gorb

3rd meaning in a dic - "To make malicious, underhand remarks or attacks.", I'm not sure whether you mean our bickering or the criticism. Either way, I don't think it was all that... err, malicious?

But alright, less of that anyhow. I certainly don't want to be responsible for you locking this thread because I'm a pathetic whiner.

Anyway, my brother informed me that there actually is a charge attack in the game/demo. You sprint (shift, ofc) and tap RMB for a shoulder slam like charge attack. Interesting.

Also, I was wondering about combat and storm shields. So far I don't have any information whether they're in the full game or not... anyone else know anything about that? Would be kinda cool to equip one instead of one of the ranged weapons and... you know, block or shield slam.

Soul Drinker, I wasn't really meaning having hundreds of soldiers fighting all around you all the time. Even though that would be really cool. It was actually more of a scenery thing that I originally meant. I was being bothered because so far it looks to me like there are not many elements in the game that make you feel you're having a battle at your hands. But enough of that.

The issue with Space Marine and being part of battles is that you're part of an initial strike team sent to secure objectives before the actual assault on Graia begins. Hopefully in Space Marine 2 we get to be part of the actual assault to free Graia from Orks and Chaos.

_________________"...the trouble with everyone thinking you're a hero is that they tend to assume you like being in mortal danger and [they] go out of their way to provide some."

I've been playing the same shitty scenario since the first Medal of Honor. If Developers had half a brain, they'd have realized that the most enjoyable missions in first person shooters were the D-day or Stalingrad simulations, where there's war all over the place and mass carnage. (Warhammer with WAR?! No fucking way!) But then those games boil down to one guy apparently stopping Hitler single-handedly. This formula started at WW2 games and we have never progressed from it... Actually, no. It started with Doom and Wolfenstien. I HOPE YOU'RE HAPPY! YOU'VE BEEN SUPPORTED THE SAME GAME WITH A SKIN RETEXTURE FOR OVER 20 YEARS!!!

Well then play the older games and don't buy the newer ones. Modern warfare 2 had a cool fell attacking the treasury building though the trenches. Or just play battlefield online those battles can get to a good size. Nothing like D-day mission but its still fun.

_________________Cold and fast Soul Drinkers!

Derp Banshees are supposed to beat stuff like Terminators in CC. Herp a derp. - Gorb

That's why I haven't really enjoyed a FPS since Medal of Honor: Allied Assault. I have Resistance (2) and Killzone 2 but those were kinda meh. I'd still be playing MOHAA if the servers were still populated. That game was amazing.

Anyway, I'll wait to see if there are any decent mods and a $30 price drop before I decide to pick it up, not interested in supporting this title.

I am interested still, I see potential for enjoyment but I think some thinks could be tweaked.

-Bolters feel weaker than they should be and sound weak as well. The Stalker is what I would feel is closer to a real Bolter.

-Yeah the battles feel a little smaller than I'd like, but this is a teaser demo so I can forgive that I suppose.

-I want Titus to have a damned helmet and look like a Captain as well. Armor needs moar shiny bits and fancy additions.

-If Titus is an Ultramarine he sure doesn't act like you'd expect an Ultra to be. No shouts of the standard "courage and honor", "we march for Macragge" or anything like that, just mostly general battle cries. Titus is no real substitute for Sicarius.

-Your squadmates are useless, but is that a surprise?

-Ork voices are merely passable.

-All the enemies look the bloody same. What I mean here is the standard choppa boyz all look alike with no variation in appearance, weapons, etc. and so on with the rest of the Ork units. There's no randomization here. Basically no two Orks should look alike, they should not look like clones.

Still looks like a fun title so far, mods for the PC version will probably fix a lot of what I mentioned too.

_________________Who does the Guard trust the most?AIRBORNE!Who do the ladies love the most?AIRBORNE!Who do the Xenos fear the most?AIRBORNE!

I was actually in shock when I first heard an ork yell "Kill the humans!" ( instead of humies... or "Snik 'em humies!"). Then I started paying attention to their voices... and imagine, they sounded so orky in DoW too.

That and some other things ( although we can't rule out that there's gonna be some large scale fighting or even different/better ork models in the full game..) really make it look like they didn't really polish the game... well, not even up to current DoW standard ( where voice acting at least was, mostly, quite good).

And all of that is such a shame, I suppose.

But yeah, it might be fun. After all, it's the 1st WH40k shooter ever ( that I know of, anyway..) and I think it was about time.

Next question that nobody will bother to answer or discuss:

Do you guys think there'll ever be a F/TPS with Eldar as protagonists? And, would you like that or would you rather stick to Space Marines?

Also, would you guys have welcomed more RPG-like elements in Space Marine?

Like, being able to award points in different fields of combat and maybe unlock abilities ( even if they'd only be upgrades like a more powerful 4th melee attack - which reminds me on that special attack the heroes do in DoW2). Melee damage, endurance, ranged damage or accuracy... that kind of stuff?

And probably not as detailed as in a real RPG, but at least to some degree. Any thoughts?

i liked the idea of the RPG element they talked about way in the beginning, which if i remember was that you could upgrade your weapon's stats add stuff like a scope and make it a combi weapon. which to me would be great, adding new skills and stuff would just be weird. like someone said over at RN a 200+ year captain of the ultramarines isn't likely to suddenly start learning new moves and attacks and such.

but weapon upgrades would have been nice, you are on a forgeworld so finding those things wouldnt be out of place.

and yes Ork voices could have been a lot better, they don't feel as rough as they do in the DoW games.

also to the whole large scale fighting, though its awesome to have a bunch of dudes shooting around you and have **** blowing up. its still all about the player, so even with that they would still make all the Ai shoot like crap and miss a bunch just so the player will do most of the work. wouldnt be very fun if all the enemies get killed for you(which some people have already complained about on RN about the 2 allies you have on the jumppack level) so yes it would added a great atmosphere to the game but its only more work and you'd still end up with pretty much the same..

Upgradeable weapons would be sweet. Combi-stuff, damn. That would have been cool. Now that you mention it I suddenly thought of the Flamer... damn, there's no Flamer. Afaik. xD

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like someone said over at RN a 200+ year captain of the ultramarines isn't likely to suddenly start learning new moves and attacks and such.

True, true. Then again, if the protagonist wasn't a Captain it would have made sense.

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also to the whole large scale fighting, though its awesome to have a bunch of dudes shooting around you and have **** blowing up. its still all about the player, so even with that they would still make all the Ai shoot like crap and miss a bunch just so the player will do most of the work. wouldnt be very fun if all the enemies get killed for you(which some people have already complained about on RN about the 2 allies you have on the jumppack level) so yes it would added a great atmosphere to the game but its only more work and you'd still end up with pretty much the same..

Yeah, that way it would have been a lot of work for just a few visual effects. It might have been worth it, but still...

On the other hand, they could have bits where a bunch of at least semi-competent allies would not take the fun away by simply making the situations where you fight with support truly dire. Like, adding tons and tons of more enemies compared to when allies are not around so you'd actually have to utilize them to make it out of there alive. Or things like, you've got a Predator Annihilator or at some position and Kanz od Dreds trying to overrun it with Tankbustas as support. Then you'd have to dance around the Dreds to take out the Tankbustas so they don't take out the Predator so that it can take out the Dreds so they don't take you out.

Well, I actually still have hope that there might be some stuff like that in the game. We'll see...

Oh, and the things with the Nobz is kinda funny.

Imagine if they didn't just run after you like bloodhounds after a steak with legs and power armor. See, if they weren't scripted to survive and talk to you after you take the orks out they probably wouldn't be much of a help. But yeah.

So, while trying that new stuff from that mod ( the stuff where all 3 dudes get different armor) I managed to figure ever more stuff out ( I guess I'm kinda slow, but I doubt that would surprise anyone anyway ).

Apparently the melee system isn't as bad as I thought. At first it just looked like 1, 2, 3 and kick-ass 4 plus the stunning and executing. That was kinda dull, even with throwing in the odd boltgun/bolter/whatever shot here and there. Now I figured out that you can tap F ( stun) after 1, 2 or 3 for different effects.

Lelorelyn: I mean the sniping between Gorb and Fuegan about who's got the biggest pants and whose filling them more when it comes to game designing.It's not unsafe to say they have a bit of a rivalry and history.

If it was just game critism and how things could be better, fair enough.. But you don't also need to be derogative about it either.

Back on topic:

I am as usual going to reserve my judgement untill i have played MP.... That will make or break the game for me TBH. If it is as fun, gory and aggressive as gears one... then i don't care to much about the story as it looks like it doesn't have too much replay value so far, which isn't surprising for a Shooter game from this decade. You'd need multiple classes and good unlockables/challanges for that.

Well I wasn't being derogatory to specific people until Gorb came up and got all jelly. Lelorelyn and I were having a good time discussing what ifs and stuff. Then Gorb jumped in and said I was being an egomaniac. Now I'm suffering from mental anguish and I'm too scared to discuss anything else with Lelorelyn. CONFOUND THIS GORB, HE DRIVES ME TO FIND A PSYCHOLOGIST.

Anyway. I don't think they should have spent time on making anything but a basic multiplayer. WH40k draws people in by its lore and the possibilities of what could happen in this massive universe. They should have tried to make single player the best they could and then spent the remaining time on MP. Idk about you, but Space Marines vs CSM doesn't sound very appealing when they both work identically.

They spent all that time making that customization thing. Marine fanboys get all butthurt when they're *insert color* chapter isn't included, so Relic probably felt they were forced to include something like this or just wanted to cash in on the largest consumer base in WH40k, which would be smart on their part (I'd prolly do the same in their shoes). If the multiplayer isn't spectacular, that was just a huge waste of time. Essentially, it would be a $60 Army Painter, lol. If you didn't like what I just said, don't bother reading the next part, as it's just me expressing my personal feelings. I'm allowed to, this is a forum after all, I'm not doing a professional review...

It really is these 'special snowflakes' that destroy good games. The quickest way to end an RPG session is for some guy to come in boasting about his special snowflake and how awesome he thinks it is. Or like people requiring to name their characters in games. So instead of dialogue that refers to you as a person, you get generic dialogue that only serves to pull you out of the experience. I'd rather be referred to as Adam Jensen or Hawke than Grey Warden. That makes me feel even less significant if anything, like I'm below the NPC's recognition. It's good that you can't customize your chapter in SP but I'd rather have a full SP or MP experience than just being able to choose my look, that's all I'm saying.

Upgradeable weapons would be sweet. Combi-stuff, damn. That would have been cool. Now that you mention it I suddenly thought of the Flamer... damn, there's no Flamer. Afaik. xD

There was talk from the developers about weapons gaining upgrades as they level up through use. I do not know however if that is simply absent from the demo or they cut the idea altogether.

Lelorelyn wrote:

Apparently the melee system isn't as bad as I thought. At first it just looked like 1, 2, 3 and kick-ass 4 plus the stunning and executing. That was kinda dull, even with throwing in the odd boltgun/bolter/whatever shot here and there. Now I figured out that you can tap F ( stun) after 1, 2 or 3 for different effects.

Kick, tackle and stomp. Not that bad, less dull anyway.

Which you can view via the pause menu, there's a section there talking about moves in combat. It kinda reminds me of Dynasty Warriors in that regard...good god this is Dynasty Warriors 40K isn't it?

Lelorelyn wrote:

Btw, guys... what's the deal with that Vengeance launcher? >_<

I, erm, can't seem to figure out how to make the grenades explode.

I think you hit the reload key to detonate the rounds, that's how it is on the 360 at least.

Fuegan wrote:

Then Gorb jumped in and said I was being an egomaniac.

You do sometimes come off like one so perhaps he was not far from the truth?

_________________Who does the Guard trust the most?AIRBORNE!Who do the ladies love the most?AIRBORNE!Who do the Xenos fear the most?AIRBORNE!

@sledgehammer70: Ready to wreck havoc in Space Marine with your friends? Stay tuned for full Co-Op details This Week!

after the campaign and a bunch of MP games (probably till i get to lvl41) is what will keep me interested in the game if not before that. its the only thing keeping DoW2 and many other games that have it interesting for me..

Honestly, watch that whole thing. You will experience more 40k in that half hour or so than you would reading the entire Black Library, watching Ultramarines, and reading through the 5th edition rulebook 3 times. My balls dropped the first time I saw the first 2 minutes of that beginning cutscene.

Talking about this game is the fastest way to get me to geek out. I can't describe the sheer fangasam I experienced from watching this. If you gave me 15 minutes to describe the imagery from every sentence spoken in those cutscenes, I still wouldn't do it justice.

Derailment aside, is there any information on modability or mod tools for Space Marine? I know there are a lot of skin retextures for Titus but that's all I know of.

Why are you still trying to compare a game that you don't like and aren't interested with a different game that you personally prefer?

And the community are already developing mod tools for Space Marine. Relic have stated that they're unlikely to invest in creating any at this point (especially since the game has 360 and PS3 versions, which AFAIK aren't moddable - I could be wrong on this, however) - however they are looking forward to what the community produce.

I mean, a community member had an archive file format figured out the day the demo was released. I doubt Relic could persuade THQ to let them work on official tools when most of their work is being done for them.

Honestly, watch that whole thing. You will experience more 40k in that half hour or so than you would reading the entire Black Library, watching Ultramarines, and reading through the 5th edition rulebook 3 times.

some imperial guard are being attacked by Orks, then space marine drop in and kill said orks. in the game Space Marines it' pretty much the same only you don't drop directly into the Imperial Guard vs Ork fight but its a little further away and make your way to it and instead of 3 drop pods full of SMs(over kill much??) you're only 3 SMs. 1 being a captain another a vet both 200+ years old.

Not overkill, that's how much it should take if they expect to get into melee with them and survive. So to you, 40k is just some SMs killing Orks? That's bland. What do you want me to do, analyze the scene I linked? Because I can do that.

Well, they showed the Thunder Hammer, the last weapon. I officially have no reason to buy this game now that they showed me the entire 3 hit combo. If only the fools would have showed me just 2 hits. Then I would have many a restless nights lying in bed just imagining what that last hit would look like until the game finally released. lol Yeah, I'm aware of the Relic Blade and Combat Blade they haven't showed anything on.

never said or meant that it was all 40K was to me.. but its still pretty 40K. and i do think 3 squads of Space Marines is overkill for 20 or so Orks. yes they engaged in Melee but only cus the bolter is represented as it should be since that would be even more overkill!

Its basicly the horde mode from gears of war instead of a co-op campaign. Im not really a fan of co=op campaign myself since I like to play alone for the story and not just run around dicking off. This mode will be perfect for that though.