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It was fun to go back and read the unanimous hand wringing from last year saying the Dodgers had a massive overpay for Puig. The analysis was based on virtually nothing, yet it was repeated with conviction a zillion times on the internet, most noticeable Keith Law and Baseball America. It appears fewer than five teams, maybe less than five, saw this guy work out. I don't see how you can say a guy isn't worth X if you never saw him to begin with. You should probably have no opinion and disclose, "I haven't seen him" or "my source hasn't seen him".

It appears a lot of scouts/organizations were covering their butts after missing on this guy, not even seeing this guy. I'm sure there were unique logistical issues in seeing him, but at least two teams saw him. The internet feeding frenzy ripping the Dodgers based on nothing is more questionable than the Dodgers spending that much money on one workout and perhaps advice from some Cuban bird-dog.

There are always multiple ways to measure value, but one remains king, the true value which considers production over the contract, it appears this might be a historic steal when considering production, the other is present day value which in this instance consisted of basing it on what the bidding was at the time, this is where the lack of information can create a very unique price, often below true value. To me, the most important measure is production and seeing to it you are getting production for your dollar, being less concerned with being the winning bid by $1 dollar. This was a huge win for old-fashioned scouting.

Nine HOF baseball players skipped the minors. Of course nearly every NFL player goes straight from college to the NFL, excepting 2x MVP Kurt Warner and a few others. The NFL is, comparatively, a much easier league to dominate as a 1st year pro.

because robin yount played 64 games at class a and the next year was the starting shortstop for the brewers

Dave Winfield. Drafted June 5th and his first MLB game was June 19th. I believe something like 92 players have made their professional debut in the majors with 9 HoFers doing it as well if you don't count fall legaues. I believe Mike Leake is the last player to not play minor league ball before making his debut in the majors.

It's not the same, but Scott Radinsky spent parts of three years in rookie ball. He must have been injured for most of the third year. Then he spent one full year in Single-A, skipped AA and AAA and went to MLB. He didn't pitch in AA or AAA until he was 33.

By "climbed the entire pro baseball ladder", I mean starting out in the lowest possible league and making it to the majors, not the Robin Younts and Al Kalines of the world.

I can understand excluding bonus babies like Kaline, Koufax, and Robinson, they weren't allowed to be sent to the minors, but why Yount? He played 64 games at low A, and then made the majors. It seems like that qualifies. Likewise, Dave Winfield could have gone to the minors, but he was so good it was unnecessary.

Because it's understood that basketball and football are much different sports (with a much different developmental structure) than baseball. To do what Puig did (go from the lowest minor league to the majors in less than a year) is more equivalent to LeBron James' journey from high school to the NBA in one fell swoop.

Of course, Puig's no neophyte: he's 22, and played de facto pro ball in Cuba for five years. If college baseball were as big as deal as college football or hoops, this would be like a four-year starter at a big-time school stepping right into a major league job.

The only reason Bryce Harper played so many games in the minors as he did was for financial reasons on the part of the Nationals. If this was 1950 Bryce would have been in the majors at 18 years of age. And of course there was Albert Pujols who was an unknown unheralded beast in his one year in the minors compromising almost entirely in single A ball. If he was a highly touted prospect he'd probably have been brought up in 2000.

Why is it more impressive? We're talking, I assume, "amazing development." Somebody decided Puig was only good enough for rookie/a+ as recently as last year, now he's in the majors. That's a big jump in talent ... or a serious underestimation of his current talent last year.

yount's not a great example because that was more of a publicity stunt and Yount wasn't actually good in the majors. Somebody like Winfield (or Prior) was ML ready, not an amazing development story. Pujols is a real Puig however.

As a comparison I have long said that the only basketball player I've ever seen who developed more than Olajuwon between his freshman and sophomore seasons was Olajuwon between his sophomore and junior seasons. Ending up in the majors a month after you are drafted is not the same thing as jumping from rookie league talent to ML talent in a year.

Still more likely Puig was playing at a lower level last year than he needed to than that he's made a huge jump.

Fun fact: Puig was playing in the rookie leagues less than ten months ago. (Has anyone ever climbed the entire pro baseball ladder in such a short time?)

Pujols was drafted in 1999, spent the summer in a collegiate summer league, signed after the season, started 2000 in low-A, and was a Cardinal on opening day 2001. So he did go from low-A to the majors in a year.

yes and Yount was -1.6 WAA at 19 and -1 WAA at 20. He was only in the majors because the Brewers needed butts in the seats and were hyping him. (Well, they were a not great team (not bad either) so he may have been the best option on hand as well)

Wow, the Aaron thing worked wonders in 75 ... they jumped from 9th to 3rd in attendance despite winning just 69 games.

yount's not a great example because that was more of a publicity stunt and Yount wasn't actually good in the majors.

walt, you are full of sh8t. wow. i am flabbergasted that you would make not just an inaccurate statement. if it wasn't you (among a handful of posters) i would call you a f8cking idiot and tell you for the sake of humanity to step in front of a bus

who did the brewers who was a better option? tim johnson the incumbent? are you really going to make that case? in front of everyone? other minor leaguers in the system? because sure the brewers were loaded at the time (sarcasm)

just stop. really. you are embarrassing yourself

i am stepping away because i like you and don't want to unload any further

Q. Let’s fast forward – you are the manager of the Brewers. What did you see in 18-year-old Robin Yount to make him your starting shortstop?

A. Well obvious talent. The first time I even looked at him – I hadn’t even noticed him, you know he only had 60 games, I think, to his credit in rookie ball [note: 64] – and so I just happened to be standing behind the batting cage one day and looked out and one of the coaches was hitting him fungoes at shortstop. I looked out and I saw this lanky kid and he had good range and good hands and we had a terrible field and that ball would bounce up and hit him in the shoulder and he’d go over and pick it up and toss it in and get another one. And so I went over to the coach and said let me hit him some. Robin was about at the end of his workout and I hit him some more ground balls and he just looked like he that had the great makeup and obvious talent. He could throw, he had good range and like I say he had good hands. And nobody knows whether they can hit or not until they get the opportunity. So I went to my general manager, who was Jim Wilson, and I asked him if there was any reason why an 18-year-old kid could not start on our ballclub. And he says, “Look, we don’t have much. What do you want to do?” And I said I want to play him. I think we had about 15 games left on our spring training schedule. I said I want to play him every day and see how he handles the 0-for-4s and how he handles the boots and he handles some adversity. And he was just tremendous. He had just great, great makeup. So he started the season with us. It was just that obvious that he could play, and then it was just a matter of could he play at a major-league level enough so he could gain confidence and help the ballclub, and he could do that.

Why is it more impressive? We're talking, I assume, "amazing development." Somebody decided Puig was only good enough for rookie/a+ as recently as last year, now he's in the majors. That's a big jump in talent ... or a serious underestimation of his current talent last year.

Or neither. Remember, Puig hadn't played in about a year due to his suspension in Cuba, and since coming over from Cuba usually means a certain amount of culture shock, starting defectors in the low minors makes a lot of sense.

Yount in his first 3 years had 1660 PA and 3.4 WAR or -2.4 WAA. That is not good performance. It's excellent for ages 18-20 and it's better than Yuni but it is not good performance.

Who else should the Brewers have used? As I said, he was probably the best guy they had on hand but a team that's not desperate to hype a kid to put butts in the seats finds a decent SS option to give the kid a couple seasons in the minors before calling him up at the age of 20 or 21.

In the expansion era -- 50 years -- there have only been two 18-year-olds to get 200+ PA, Yount and Kranepool. So we haven't seen it at all in the last nearly 40 years and the two times it's been done, it was by lousy teams trying to establish themselves in a market hyping a kid. Even ARod didn't get 200 PA at 18.

At 19 the list is 14 players and Yount is 11th on that list by WAR but first in PA. Now that's fine -- Harper, Staub and Griffey are the others at the top, it's a sign of real talent. But a more typical approach would have been the 377 PA that Cedeno got or the 288 that Pudge 2 got or the 200 PA that Machado got. Plenty of guys at age 20 of course and Yount's performance is right in the middle of the pack and is similar (1.4 WAR) to Castro and better than Renteria as full-time SS at 20 and not far off Cedeno. Yount in the majors at 20 would have been a pretty typical case.

Obviously there's no problem with what the Brewers did, Yount developed just fine at the ML level. But how anybody could conclude anything other than that Yount was rushed to the majors is beyond me. Even if the 18-year-old is the best available, every non-expansion Mets team of the last 50 years has decided that guy should spend another year or two in the minors not be handed the full-time job out of spring training.

the brewers made a roster decision for non-baseball reasons. they wanted attention so they put someone on the roster who was not the best option.

now i am responding to what i read/heard:

false. robin yount was the best option and the brewers despite not having what one would call a strong management team made a reasonable, one could claim the obvious, decision

so your response in 50 is working to change the tone/tenor of your previous comments. you are now working to step away from your obvious re-writing of history to state that the brewers 'rushed' yount to the majors

that is not what you previously claimed. you stated it was a publicity stunt.

i have always enjoyed reading our exchanges. you have issued some very fine posts on various topics

but in this thread first you fabricated facts (and smeared an organization's leadership in the process) and now you are working to re-frame the discussion to place prior comments in a different context

if this was the other posters known for such sorry behavior i would not bother responding. it would not be worthy of the time since their behaviors are well-established and any commentary from me won't budge that needle

but with you i will retain hope that you acknowledge (at least to yourself) that you were in error, that you created facts that did not exist and instead just cease in trying to substantiate what is not supported by history

the brewers level of talent at that time, particularly at that position, was so lacking that robin yount, whatever his limitations, was the best option

to claim anything else is ridiculous

do not expect any further response. it pains me to see you post in such a fashion