What happens when religion/spirituality is replaced with secularism?

Certain people believe society would function better without religion, which they see as a stumbling block to reason and progress. Religion is
portrayed by secularists as some kind of a veil of ignorance that needs to be lifted in order for society to progress.

Very well... I'd like to ask what happens when religion/spirituality is replaced with secularism?
With religion out of the way, can we expect to see the rise of rational scientifically oriented societies? Will the masses become passionate about
science and progress? Will the average individual apply reason and logic to making a difference for the better? With religion removed from existence,
will we start progressing as a species in leaps and bounds?

Its easy to measure the progress of a secular society that is free from religious influence.
Just look into what society spends energy, time and money on. To do this, look at its mass media which is a reflection of society. Does the
mass media reflect a general interest towards science, progress and all those good things religion gets in the way of? Or does it reflect an obsession
with something lesser....like shallow entertainment, celebrities and materialism?

Take a look at the trash being passed off as "entertainment" and "lifestyle" on your TVs and cinema.
Look at the overpaid celebrities / entertainers / sports stars.... and the movies, shows, music and big games that they make happen. There are entire
industries that keep this garbage in production, influencing millions. This isn't something that is being forced on to people by governments or
corporations for profit, but rather the people living in secular societies want this kind of garbage. The minds of the secular masses fuel
these industries. These masses indirectly pay for the mansions, cars, vacations, drug habits of celebrities. Never mind soaring prices, poverty, debt,
war... the "the show will go on". The industry produces it because the people want it because the industry produces it, and so on.

This shallowness and vapidity that pervades society are direct products of a secular system, not a religious one. Period.

Sure, we all can sit on pedestals smugly laugh at people who enjoy trash like *insert stupid TV show* and pretend to be better because our taste in
entertainment are more refined. But that's not the real issue as this is NOT a rant against trashy mainstream entertainment and its millions
of followers. Rather, its just one simple example of how stupidity and irrationality can breed even in a secular framework, without any religious
influence

A secular society sans religion did not make the masses passionate about science and progress. Instead it has cultivated an obsession with shallow
celebrities and the "entertainment" they have to offer. The average childs role models and heroes are glorified pop stars and fictional characters....
not Einstein or Darwin.
A secular society sans religion has failed to influence individuals to try and make a difference for the better. Instead it has made individuals
selfish and apathetic, coveting flashy gadgets and cars that are marketed. These are the true fruits of an irreligious, secular society.

Can we honestly say that a secular society without religion guarantees intellectual development?
Is it logical that secular society monetarily rewards shallow entertainers MORE than scientists, doctors and teachers who work to make a difference in
the lives of many?
Is the dumbing down of the masses through godless entertainment the promised progress of a secular society?
If these are the kind of questions that you have asked yourself, then you are the kind of person I'd like on board this discussion.

My stance is secularism is NOT a magical solution to the 'absurdity' of religion, but rather brings with it its own brand of absurdity.

Well, I have asked myself these questions and I think that people would be free to develop intellectually if they wish, or free to be artistic if they
wish.

I think whether or not God is present in entertainment is irrelevant to the quality of the entertainment. A lot of bands I appreciate like System of a
Down have good messages but are secular. A lot of religious doctrine hampers human rights.

Most of the atheists I know watch higher quality television than the religious people I know, in fact, the latter might make up most of the audience
for the shows you are mentioning.

HOWEVER you will not have to worry because your time of religious suppression of science and societal progress is coming. We are not heading towards
an atheist society, but the other way around, towards a totalitarian religious police state. Things go in cycles. Atheists are weak because they are
too individualistic.

They will not be able to stop what is coming, because they think they have already won, and underestimate the power of religious culture.

I'd say those with a strong personal morality and sense of responsibility won't much care either way and didn't need organized religion to begin
with. Spirituality is apart from that in my mind and a deeply personal thing not necessarily tied to any religion at all.

Those with no morals or values to start with, likewise would be unaffected. They'd go on being predators and victimizing people like always. Just
finding a more competitive market, perhaps.

It's that majority....and stats put it as a healthy majority World Wide, who identify with an Organized religion and strongly at that. I can't help
but think for a large % of those people, their sense of morality and values is derived from the code they find in religion and a sense of paying a
high price after death for violating the most important of them.

Sure....you have extremists of ALL religions that hide behind them to do even worse things. There are nearly 7 Billion people on this rock though and
a vast majority are religious. So, if religion begets violence, it should be a world of anarchy and slaughter, rather than some pockets of it where
extremism seems to rule, right?

Also I find that in the absence of heavy religion (let's not forget that none of us have probably experienced a society where religion is absolute)
one can find unity by doing things they enjoy with someone else, and learning about life.

An interesting premise Skorpion. S&F for the thought you put into this.

The problem with measuring religious vs secular in our society is that must account for a third factor, or faction, if one prefers to see it that way.
Either way, we must account for world leaders and mega corporations who expend much in the way of resources every day to mold our society, and public
perception, to their will. Neither science nor religion is pure and untainted from these entities, and therefore, no objective measurement can truly
be made.

Now if one were to take a group of atheists, and a group of "your religion here", and place them in a situation free from outside interference, and
with the same resources to form a society, you might be able to measure the success or failure of each group in a given area.

As things stand, there is no hope of either group of common people forming a society based on their given principles and beliefs. Therefore, no
realistic interpretation of merits, or lack thereof, can be made, excepting a subjective cursory review by us as individuals based on the information
we have about each group. We can only hypothesize.

Interesting topic! SnF for you.
I agree with you that secularism has done nothing that it can claim as only possible because of it.
The divide between the church and science lead to the backlash that made religion look obsolute and a hurdle for progress and people went to the other
extreme causing problems of its own that we see now.
The progress thats happening in the secular world is rudderless, we innovate and research in any field just because we can, never asking if its
required or will it help humanity or harm. Its driven by profit alone.
Any new technology first goes through a check of its military application.
Individuality is promoted and the message is "you are free to do what you want till the law allows" yet the laws are basically individual oriented
not society oriented. The sense of personal responsibility by morals is diminished requiring more policing.
In short secularism suddenly gave individuals almost unlimited freedom without first teaching them the responsibility that comes with it.
Religion already has a framework, guidelines to reach a balance between individual freedom without causing social harm and decay.
Secularism is a sukling infant, it would grow as people slowly realise and learn by trial and error. Maybe in thousand years, but it would be funny if
they reach the same understanding and fine tune the laws as religion already has now!

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