Nancy Pelosi's foreign policy record is getting worse by the month... before the Olympic boycott, it was the Turkey genocide disaster PR-blunder.

Now there's a push to boycott at least the opening ceremony. Idiot.

If you had issue with China's human rights record, Tibet, etc.... than you shoulda of done something when the bids were being considered. This is nothing new with China. P.S. Nancy, they are going to pass some atrocious interim laws, and keep the local citizens well in check, and squash ANY/ALL misbehavior. Coulda told you all this 5, 6,...10 years ago.

Instead, let's take out the joy and unity for the athletes to kick off the games. Amateur athletes that have NOTHING to do with any political/policy issue at hand. The Olympics are about the athletes and the common citizens from the representative countries pulling for their fellow countrymen/women, not raising political awareness. The Olympics should unite and give us all a break from this crap.

The Chinese government is going to stick out their middle finger, continue to squash whomever they want, and say this is all a ploy riddled with fallacy and incorrect claims, and keep this as a tab for some socio-international payback.

Shame the lessons were NOT learned from the DISASTERS that were the 84 Los Angeles and 80 Moscow boycotts.

Maybe her grille is stretched so tight, it's cutting off circulation that should be going to her cranium.

a lot of people seem to think that the Olympics are an apolitical event. unfortunately the Chinese government can't be included! everything about their bid and everything about the games themselves will be stage-managed to portray China as a country enjoying unprecedented economic boom with no social costs whatsoever. which is not really the case, is it. so to NOT boycott the Olympics really gives credence to all their propaganda and legitimises much of what the CCP has been doing. of course we should have made a stronger stand before now, but we didn't and that shouldn't really affect what we do now. In any case it would have been for the IOC to do something about it, but they were more interested in 'reaching out' to China. in the end we're all just reaching out to the Chinese government (who, i discover yesterday, force women who violate the child-quota to undergo sterilisation procedures with no anaesthetic. what a fine civilisation).

What the chinese government have done in tibet is very bad and when india tried to stop them in the 1960s the chinese army killed over 3000 indian troops.
However what china is doing is what all empires do. They expand and occupy territory and seek to control resources and key transport nodes.
We shouldn't forget that just over the border britain and portugal once carved up and occupied india and pakistan and goa. So its hard for the west to lecture china when we have behaved just as badly in the past and also once occupied hong kong and maccau.
Boycotting the olympics will serve no good and sport will suffer not the chinese government.

Gold Member

What the chinese government have done in tibet is very bad and when india tried to stop them in the 1960s the chinese army killed over 3000 indian troops.
However what china is doing is what all empires do. They expand and occupy territory and seek to control resources and key transport nodes.
We shouldn't forget that just over the border britain and portugal once carved up and occupied india and pakistan and goa. So its hard for the west to lecture china when we have behaved just as badly in the past and also once occupied hong kong and maccau.
Boycotting the olympics will serve no good and sport will suffer not the chinese government.

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India did nothing to support the Tibetans in maintaining their independence when they were invaded by the PRC, despite many appeals. India agreed to PRC suzerainty over Tibet. It was 12 years later, after consolidating their control, that the PRC invaded India over a border dispute. After this India facilitated the CIA in their covert assistance to Tibetan Guerrillas, and developed a semi secret military unit from refugees. They also have taken in all refugees.

Gold Member

I don't often say "I agree with you, Faceking." To be accurate, Pelosi didn't recommend a boycott of the Olympics, she recommended Bush boycott the opening ceremony. Either way it's a hollow, useless exercise and hypocritical as all hell.

It blows my mind that this is even coming up in popular discourse (and not just in the US). It's as if all of the sudden people realized China is hosting the Olympics (Beijing was awarded the games 7 years ago) or that China has an oppressive, autocratic government (the PRC was established 59 years ago) or that the Chinese government is particularly vicious in its oppression of Tibet (the PRC took over Tibet (again) 58 years ago). I'm not saying I agree with how they treat Tibet (I am a proud liberal), but I am saying its not news. The only reason why most people are talking about it now is because of what happened last week.

This is another example of a politician talking out of both sides of their mouth. In Pelosi's defense, her voting record has been consistently anti-China. However, she's also made some consistently boneheaded foreign policy statements as Speaker. If our government really gave a shit about Chinese domestic and foreign policy we would have taken harder stands on them economically. And we've done just the opposite, from Clinton's dramatic acceleration of trade liberalization to W letting them join the WTO.

Current events notwithstanding, recommending a boycott of the Olympics to make a statement is about as meaningful as Marlon Brando sending a chick dressed like the Land 'o Lakes girl up to accept his Oscar to protest the treatment of American Indians. All pomp and no circumstance in an utterly ridiculous setting.

Gold Member

Well, unless you're an athlete or otherwise directly involved, the best you can really do is ignore it. But I applaud the sentiment.

It seems to me that recent events in Tibet are perhaps symptoms of a wider problem. A problem to which many of us are unwitting accomplices. While we (in the west and, increasingly everywhere else) continue to indulge our craving for cheap Chinese made goods, we and our Governments will turn a blind eye so long as they're cheap and plentiful. That so many of our Governments are increasingly in hock to the Chinese also means any action to enforce meaningful change seems unlikely.

It was a mistake to award the games to Beijing, something I've said here already. I thought it was a mistake at the time and nothing since has even begun to make me reconsider. A boycott really won't affect the situation in China (or Tibet), certainly not directly. But that doesn't matter too much and IMO, in the case of China, those who cite this as their sole argument against a boycott, somewhat miss the point anyway.

that's the spirit....i think a boycott would be a good start but the only way we'll ever really get through to the Chinese government is if we stop buying their goods.

and you're quite right when you say that the fact that a boycott will have no direct impact on the Tibet situation is no reason to oppose one in principle. what protest has ever had tangible results in the short-term?! besides, it seems to me like Tibet is only the most visible of the many atrocities committed by the CCP in recent decades - they'll treat their own citizens with the very same contempt they deal the Tibetans. so a general display of international disapproval would certainly start the ball rolling.

i''m sure i'm not the only one who feels increasingly terrified by the prospect of a world Chinese-communist hegemony, but it seems like plenty of people still don't perceive them as a threat. whatever their economic accomplishments, the current regime has no respect for western liberal values and will shortly - if they aren't already - be in a position to erode them. i'm sure the growth of the Chinese middle classes will eventually rein in the party's most inhumane excesses (and maybe even usher in some kind of real democracy), but will it come quick enough to spare the rest of the planet.....

PS the olympic torch is coming through my neck of the woods tomorrow....anyone wanna help me steal it? or at least put it out with a well-aimed supersoaker?

Well, unless you're an athlete or otherwise directly involved, the best you can really do is ignore it. But I applaud the sentiment.

It seems to me that recent events in Tibet are perhaps symptoms of a wider problem. A problem to which many of us are unwitting accomplices. While we (in the west and, increasingly everywhere else) continue to indulge our craving for cheap Chinese made goods, we and our Governments will turn a blind eye so long as they're cheap and plentiful. That so many of our Governments are increasingly in hock to the Chinese also means any action to enforce meaningful change seems unlikely.

It was a mistake to award the games to Beijing, something I've said here already. I thought it was a mistake at the time and nothing since has even begun to make me reconsider. A boycott really won't affect the situation in China (or Tibet), certainly not directly. But that doesn't matter too much and IMO, in the case of China, those who cite this as their sole argument against a boycott, somewhat miss the point anyway.

Gold Member

After the 1989 Tien an Men massacre and crushing of any move to liberalism, I avoided purchasing anything made in the PRC for several years. Things are so integrated now with components from all over that would be very difficult. For example, the bulk portland cement imported by my employer here in Anchorage comes from China.

The only place in the US the torch is going through is San Francisco, the city is keeping the route secret to foil protesters. I think this is a violation of free speech rights.

Gold Member

Yes, but no one in their right mind would lie down on a London's street. Also, it was snowing today. :biggrin1:

What makes you think that?

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I had supposed that the streets of the route would be blocked off for traffic, and thus empty. That is what would be usual here.

We have about three inches of sparkly new snow.

Frisco is the epicenter of counter culture activism protest on the west coast. There has been protest around the PRC consulate for several weeks, including an ineffective Molotov cocktail on the rear metal roll up door.