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There is no reason for kids to be having caffiene everyday!! My cousin
brags about her 14 month old loving tea and I'm thinking, "That's not
something I'd *brag* about!" (she also loves the tv and watches it all
the time)
Marie

Indeed. I'll vent for you...This is something about which I've been
preoccupied lately--I worry more and more that Sprogly is getting too little
sleep for a not-yet-7-month-old. The problem is that I'm working full-time,
we have a long commute, and Sprogly doesn't nap well at daycare.

We're only actually at home for about 11 hours out of the day on the
weekdays, and though I get us ready for bed as quickly as I can when I get
home from work, he tends to get around 9.5 hours at night. Evenings are
rough, because he really, really wants to go to bed, but won't go down to
sleep without me. My schedule is brutal for me, and I'm scraped about as
thin as I could be, but I worry more about how it's affecting his
development.

I'm racking my brains trying to figure out how to change the situation, and
the only thing I can come up with is that I have to make a major life
change...like, quit my job and freelance or start my own business. But
that's scary, because I've got a good job with benefits, and a stable
child-care situation with which I'm happy. My son's father contributes very
little, so for all intents and purposes, I'm the sole breadwinner.

It's hard to see a way out without making a huge and risky change...but I'm
seriously considering moving to the west coast so I'll at least have some
family around to lend support.

zeldabee wrote:
Indeed. I'll vent for you...This is something about which I've been
preoccupied lately--I worry more and more that Sprogly is getting too little
sleep for a not-yet-7-month-old. The problem is that I'm working full-time,
we have a long commute, and Sprogly doesn't nap well at daycare.

That's understandable about the daycare. So much stimulation there
that it's hard for them to unwind. My best friend takes his 5
month old home and he falls asleep the 2nd the care door opens
up and the area is quite.
We're only actually at home for about 11 hours out of the day on the
weekdays, and though I get us ready for bed as quickly as I can when I get
home from work, he tends to get around 9.5 hours at night. Evenings are

Do you work 7 days a week?

Our son didn't sleep well at all between 4-8 months and it took us
a lot of reading to figure out a plan for us. Most important steps
we took we

-establish a good night time routine
-learn to put him down partially awake and fall asleep on
his own

If a family bed isn't working out for you (it sounds like it isn't)
then give it up. Really, it didn't work for us but it does work for
other people. I know my sister has had a lot of success with it.

I'd some research into helping your child learn to sleep better. Do some
google searches on the misc.kids.* newsgroups and you'll have a starting
point.

What fixed some problems for us:

- he doesn't like open spaces, we use an Amby Baby sleeper
(http://www.ambybaby.com)
- he has reflux, we give him prevacid

The big winner is being able to put them down and have them fall asleep
somewhat awake. This is hard to do and you may endure some crying
but once they learn it's ok to fall asleep on their own everything
improves.

I know it's bleak. Our son is sleeping better now and he's nearly a
year old than he was at 6 months. He's taking 45-120minute naps
twice a day and sleeping about 10-13hrs a night. It all varies
and he still doesn't sleep thru the night but we don't really care
too much about that.

Good luck. Just don't give up and do a lot of reading. You will
find something that works for you.

One thing I just plain didn't get in that story is the bit about
infants 3-11 months old not getting as much sleep as experts
recommend. Most parents of babies I know do everything they can to
try to get the baby to sleep as much as possible! I'm more inclined
for that age to think the experts' recommendation is off base rather
than the infants' sleeping. There's only so much control parents have
over it, and the rest is up to the kid.

-establish a good night time routine
-learn to put him down partially awake and fall asleep on
his own

He sleeps well. It's just a question of there not being enough hours in
the
day, once I factor in commuting. It takes maybe 25 minutes max for him to
get to sleep once we go to bed, and then he nurses a few times at night,
but
doesn't fully wake up to do so. The only time he's been wakeful at night
was
when he had a cold. As I said, on the weekends, he sleeps several hours
longer in the mornings, and I believe he'd sleep a full 12 hours at night
every night if I could only let him.

I do think I should work on getting him to sleep on his own (he will sleep
by himself on weekends for naps, but not at night), but my day is too long
to give him the uninterrupted sleep he needs no matter how I slice it.
If a family bed isn't working out for you (it sounds like it isn't)
then give it up. Really, it didn't work for us but it does work for
other people. I know my sister has had a lot of success with it.

I think it's working *very* well, actually. I think it would be worse for
him if he were in a crib.

snip suggestions
Good luck. Just don't give up and do a lot of reading. You will
find something that works for you.

Alas, I think it's going to involve more than reading. The whole structure
of my life right now doesn't allow him to sleep as much as he should. I
can't afford to live closer to work. It's unlikely that I could find an
equivalent job closer to home. I can't afford a nanny or babysitter to
stay
home with him.

I'm thinking along the lines of trying to get typesetting/book formatting
jobs that I can do at home (the big question being whether I can get
enough
work to pay the bills that way), and hire a babysitter part time, draft
Bloke as babysitter part time...but that's tossing away the bird in hand,
IYSWIM, and I don't have much margin for error. I'm also thinking I may
have
to move someplace where the cost of living is lower than it is here in NYC
(leaning toward Oregon, where I have family)...and it's hard to try to
line
that up when I have so little spare time.

Honestly, i think its probably time for a lifestyle change and a move to a
slower place and pace.
It gets harder as they get older and I really believe that for his sake you
probably need more familial support.
I dont mean that in a negative way. My sister was once working 3 part time
jobs and in school, her kids lived on the go.
they were always on the move. It was VERY hard on them. Sometimes, if you
can do so and survive, you just have to
pare backa s much as possible.
Good luck to you,. I really know how hard your situation is.

One thing I just plain didn't get in that story is the bit about
infants 3-11 months old not getting as much sleep as experts
recommend. Most parents of babies I know do everything they can to
try to get the baby to sleep as much as possible! I'm more inclined
for that age to think the experts' recommendation is off base rather
than the infants' sleeping. There's only so much control parents have
over it, and the rest is up to the kid.

Kate
and the Bug, 9.5 months

Its hard. With my baby I have to try to juggle everything around her naps or
let her sleep in the car.
When you have a lot of other responsibilities its hard to stop what you have
to do, so baby can rest.

I agree that it isn't good, but I'm not getting "really, really sad"
from it. What about it makes you feel so strongly? (I mean this
question; I'm not being at all flip.)

My own kids all just squeak into their recommended ranges. As far as
my 15-month-old, I really cannot blame myself or "the culture" for it.
She gets no caffeine (well, actually, she may get a bit from the
breastmilk but she shows no difference in sleep pattern on days when I
drink coffee after rather than during her morning feed), and I do make
a big effort, most days, to get her down for a decent nap. And bedtime
seems to be at the right time for her. What can I do if she wakes up
after only 90 minutes from a nap?

I suppose I should be putting my older kids (5 and 9) to bed 30 to 45
mins earlier, but they don't go to bed late due to TV or caffeine or
general neglect. It's usually a bedtime book that keeps them up. Not
that that's OK, but it isn't "sad" either, IMO. As for my own sleep
deprivation -- OK, that is sad. Gotta get more disciplined about my
own evening reading (addicted to newsgroups and political analysis on
the web).
[snip]
We're only actually at home for about 11 hours out of the day on the
weekdays, and though I get us ready for bed as quickly as I can when I get
home from work, he tends to get around 9.5 hours at night. Evenings are
rough, because he really, really wants to go to bed, but won't go down to
sleep without me. My schedule is brutal for me, and I'm scraped about as
thin as I could be, but I worry more about how it's affecting his
development.

Wow, I really feel for you. What on earth time do you guys get home?!

What would happen if you lay down with him when he's ready for bed,
with the intention of getting back up again after he's asleep? Would
you just fall into a deep sleep yourself? With my 2nd, for a while, I
was putting her to sleep by laying down with her but I needed to get
back up to work (I work from home, mostly evenings). I will admit that
it was torture. I was sleep-deprived myself, so I invariably dropped
into a deep sleep along with her (often before her), and I had to have
my DH wake me up, forcibly if necessary.

Eventually, I couldn't take those waking-back-ups, so I did get her to
go to sleep without me. I used to nurse her sitting up in a chair (so
I wouldn't fall too far asleep) for what seemed like ages, till she
was in a DEEP sleep, and then put her down and go work. Not exactly
fun, but not sheer torture, and it got her the sleep she needed.

Alternatively, maybe you could go down to sleep with him early but
then get up before him to get your stuff done?
I'm racking my brains trying to figure out how to change the situation, and
the only thing I can come up with is that I have to make a major life
change...like, quit my job and freelance or start my own business. But
that's scary, because I've got a good job with benefits, and a stable
child-care situation with which I'm happy. My son's father contributes very
little, so for all intents and purposes, I'm the sole breadwinner.

What is causing the crushingly full schedule? Are you expected to work
long hours at your job? Do you commute far?

Is it possible to make changes *at* your job? Could you work from home
a couple or a few days per week? This would be very helpful if
commuting time is part of your problem. Could you leave at a decent
hour but take work home to do after the baby's asleep? (I know lots of
people who do that -- not fun, and can be stressful, but allows the
kids a better schedule.)

How about the dad? Does he live nearby? If so, could he take over
either taking the baby in or picking him up from childcare?

Could anything be changed at daycare to help your baby get better
sleep there?
It's hard to see a way out without making a huge and risky change...but I'm
seriously considering moving to the west coast so I'll at least have some
family around to lend support.

Would they be a big help? If so, and if you could get a good job out
there, then that might be a great option. I can't imagine my life
without my mother -- and I've got a live-in husband! But what about
the baby's dad?

One thing I just plain didn't get in that story is the bit about
infants 3-11 months old not getting as much sleep as experts
recommend. Most parents of babies I know do everything they can to
try to get the baby to sleep as much as possible! I'm more inclined
clined
for that age to think the experts' recommendation is off base rather
than the infants' sleeping. There's only so much control parents have
over it, and the rest is up to the kid.
Kate
and the Bug, 9.5 months

With the first baby, yes, but I think it's a lot harder to get regular naps and
stuff with subsequent kids, since you're on the go with the older ones.