Mr. Tweedy wrote:Good point. Is there a stated place where these battles occur? Terrain would surely be important.

Very true. In fact, Hornatzee's description mentions tree-lines, so there may be a forest involved. We also need to know how the battles will be organised. My analysis assumed a series of one on one battles, mainly because I wanted to reduce the complexity. If it's an all in melee with alliances and so forth, things would turn out very differently.

By the way, the reason I ranked Hornatzee so low in comparison to the other contestants was that Hornatzee needs to get in close and strike twice before she could do any real damage. Squid and Indomitable can both strike from a distance. It might be hard to hit Hornatzee, but one hit would be all it takes.

Squid and Indomitable also have effective attacks at close range too, and in a one on one battle they probably wouldn't get all that distracted. I think Indomitable would be impervious to the larvae attack---I doubt the larvae would survive a liquid nitrogen bath. It's also possible the hornet venom wouldn't be effective at those temperatures.

I hear the comment about Squid's communist era technology. Perhaps I need to add a Squid vs Squid battle to my analysis.

Yes. Although a gentle soul, he is so big, so strong, so dim, that he kills unintentionally; (which would explain why he became known as abominable.)
Only problem is, he can't win the competition if Norm follows this storyline. Norm will have to kill him.

Never judge anyone until you have biopsied their brain.

"Be kind, for everyone is fighting a hard battle."
Known Some Call Is Air Am

strawman wrote:Your identification of the wasp as "she" makes sense. I was wondering if SADM was all-male.

Maybe it's some deep seated subconscious strain of creative misogyny, but I didn't even think to make Hornaztee a she, when it clearly has 'babies on board.' Other than Mega-Tanuki (name still in development), whose proudly displayed genitals produce an undeniable male'chismo, any/all of these beasts are gender non-specific.

I submit it to the forums: unless someone has an ethical or logical objection voiced in the next day or so, I willl retcon Hornaztee's maleness, and unobtrusively rewrite the voting page text to use feminine pronouns.

I worry her name, containing the audible 'whore' and 'nasty,' might suggest a sex bias. Hmmm.. I'm guessing folks won't deconstruct it and go that far down. Let's all just be jolly and site sass as the naming factor. Oh that sassy lady hornet!

I was on the same page as Norm with the arena in which this is taking place. It's unremarkable plains locale, like the Serengeti (which sees many a beast clash). with moderate temperature, favoring no single competitor in any way. The idea being the geography shouldn't shape the imaginative process, when discussing the fight. If this was a tundra, a Yeti would run a train. Ditto for a lagoon or marsh with squid.

As far as the marine critters go, we're making special considerations via their enhanced forms. Squid Marx needs a certain body moisture to function properly, but is constructed as a "land squid." Manatee (round 2 spoiler alert) has a hypnotic mental prowess, strong enough to confuse and convert its own physiology to something that functions by land. Shark, well, we'll see.

If I'm not mistaken, Norm actually laid down some ground on the battlefield in the Telephant/Death Mole/Hippopotopain/Crablooey confrontation during a podcast. If anyone has investigated the old episodes recently, I'd default to whatever was said then.

Wouldn't be opposed to maybe patches of trees: give Hornaztee somewhere to land, and Owl somewhere to perch. I can photoshop a quick overhead view of things, and post it off the site, if people want.

Mr. Tweedy wrote:Good point. Is there a stated place where these battles occur? Terrain would surely be important.

My analysis assumed a series of one on one battles, mainly because I wanted to reduce the complexity. If it's an all in melee with alliances and so forth, things would turn out very differently.

.

Ya, I dunno, I kindof do what you did in factoring how they would all do in a 1 vs 1 with each other, then, taking that into account, throw them into the melee. Then I make my call based on who has the best shot after consideration of both these factors. If we even do a halfway decent job at matching them up there won't be a clear winner of both scenarios.

So then I agree with pretty much all of your analysis, aside from that I think Skully could take Squid Marx in a 1 vs 1 and I didn't see where you had addressed that.

I mean, if I was stuck on the ground with that undead bitch the last thing I'd want to have for legs would be tank treads.

normsherman wrote:
So then I agree with pretty much all of your analysis, aside from that I think Skully could take Squid Marx in a 1 vs 1 and I didn't see where you had addressed that.

I mean, if I was stuck on the ground with that undead bitch the last thing I'd want to have for legs would be tank treads.

I took the view that Squid Marx could do a fair bit of damage to Skully before Skully got close. You don't have to kill him---if you can scold enough flesh off Skully won't have any muscles to move. He might be unconcerned with damage, but damage is damage. Then, once he's close, Squid Marx could wrap him up nicely and rip up what's left with that beak.

The fight would come down to how much flesh and muscle Squid Marx could burn off before Skully got close, and how much damage Skully could still do once caught by the Squid. I counted on Skully being weakened by the time he got close enough to do any damage, and Squid being able to take him from there. Squid also runs the risk of being dehydrated if the spray attacks take longer than expected.

If Skully was able to use his stalking fu properly he'd win it in seconds. In a one on one death match in this sort of arena, though, that's not likely.

Just on the stalking---the description says that Skully has an expert ability to stalk his opponents, but that his smell makes stealth impossible. Is there any wind in the arena?

Excellent Discussion thus far. One thing I've noticed is that everyone wants to pair up the fighters, but I don't think that's how it would go down.

When I think about hypothetical death match scenarios I relate them to two incredible games: Smash Bros. and Risk. Involving yourself in a head-to-head fight in a Brawl is dangerous b/c you open yourself up to getting picked off by lurkers (my personal strategy). And in Risk, anyone that is irresponsible is going to get knocked out very early. So with that being said, I see it going this way:

Skullverine is the first out. Too focused on destruction, it would be too easy for Hornzatee to get off two stings and paralyze the beast for 15 secs. 15 secs is a long time in a death-match, leaving ample opportunity for a death shot.

Squid Marx is the next out, as once again, Hornatzee is wreaking havoc, b/c of his diversity in this group of power hitters. Even w/ projectile attacks, Squid Marx wouldn't be able to bring down Hornatzee, and in the process gets its tentacles entangled, bringing death.

Hornaztee would be the next competitor ousted, b/c while a great competitor as a lurker/brawler, it is outmatched one-on-one. After all, Indomitable's skillz are cold, and what do bugs hate and die in? Cold. Because the Snowman's general apathy/disinterest, he lets Hornatzee do most of the work, and ends up finishing the match.

A lot of people think that the most aggressive, strongest creature has to win, when in reality (and just like Smash Bros.), it's just about staying alive as long as possible (Snowman's specialty), and looking for a one-on-one advantage.

One day he will look into what a ‘stigmata’ really is; for now, it is his trump card for getting out of work. He simply says ‘stigmata’ and they say ‘shit, hope you feel better soon.’ End of story.

This is indeed astute analysis. No one lurks better that a yeti (proof: after all these years, people still doubt their existence). And what no one has yet considered is that with liquid nitrogen, the snowman can produce a smokescreen of impenetrable fog. Hornatzee is the only one who can survive, if only because he can stay out of reach... But he's got to land sometime.

Never judge anyone until you have biopsied their brain.

"Be kind, for everyone is fighting a hard battle."
Known Some Call Is Air Am

cammoblammo wrote:Just on the stalking---the description says that Skully has an expert ability to stalk his opponents, but that his smell makes stealth impossible. Is there any wind in the arena?

Skullverine's ability to stalk prey is an aspect of his bestial wolverine origins, staying true to the critter what spawned him. He can follow trails, and doesn't lose track of an opponent. However, this is almost moot, in that his heinous smell will make any form of stealth impossible. To surmise: he knows where you are, but you will know where he is, no surprises in either direction.

I wouldn't factor wind in the terrain, as it would favor Skullverine, and neutrality is of the essence. This arena is so neutral, Zapf Brannigan would have no choice but to make war on it.

tastycakes wrote:Involving yourself in a head-to-head fight in a Brawl is dangerous b/c you open yourself up to getting picked off by lurkers (my personal strategy).

And this discussion has just been linked to Smash Brothers - I'm swooning. As a veteran of that arena, your point on laying low and playing aggressors against each other is pitch perfect. We call it 'vulturing' where I come from, and it sure does work. The greatest trick the yeti ever played was convincing the world he didn't exist.

Would Skully be cryogenically frozen (a la zombies in Canada in World War Z) by ISM? If so (and assuming they were the final contestants), the yeti would little problem with crushing the remaining corpse if he didn't pass out from "blood" loss.

I assume that all competitors would be set equidistant from each other, making a square with each competitor at the corners. This would cause speed, aggression, and field of view to be prime considerations from the starting perspective.

Skully will attack, until either combatant is destroyed, the first thing he sees. If this is the Squid, they will probably both annihilate each other (with additional assistance from the other two) before much additional combat continues and the survivor will proceed to be gang-raped until it is just ISM and Hornaztee. From there ISM will dominate Hornatzee and emerge victorious, to go off and write bad poetry.

If Hornatzee is directly across from Skully, then it would be smartest to fly out reach and lead Skully to whatever is perceived as the bigger threat. If the threat is Squid, with his ranged weaponry, then the smart move would be to decimate Skully with Squid's help, then do the same to ISM (relying on stun and slashing), and finally take down a decimated Squid before the yeti is down with some of the grubs. OTOH, if ISM is the biggest threat (due to being unlikely to defeat him by herself), the same scenario as before would play out, but with Squid joining the scrum all by himself (the yeti wouldn't because of his preference for defense) and allowing for maximum cherry-picking by Hornatzee.

If ISM is right across from Skully, the yeti will freeze him and proceed to pound him flat. The other two will probably join in, stomping Skully into the ground. (Why? Because it is fun to beat the crap out of stuff that can't fight back.) Then ISM and Squid would start in on each other, with Hornatzee harrying them all the while. Since Hornatzee would be more effective against Squid, I presume he will go down first, leaving Hornatzee to the more capable/defended hands of ISM. However, if (unlikely though it may be) the yeti falls first, Marx will be in no shape defend himself effectively against Hornatzee, leaving her with an unlikely victory.

In general, I expect Skully will taken down quickly because he is the greatest immediate threat and almost everyone will focus on him. Additionally, he will rip yeti to shreds if he can't be frozen and negates any benefit that ISM's fog might normally create.

Squid Marx's firepower is useful for allowing him to keep his distance from Skully and still attack or maintain suppression fire against Hornatzee. Additionally, his mustard gas works well against ISM and Hornatzee. Also can use long reach to rip the wings off of her.

Hornatzee's biggest contribution is 15 second immobilizing sting. This I expect to work on at least ISM and Squid, making her able to decide very quickly who will win a particular scrum. Also allows her to be a kill stealing fucktard.

Indomitable's cold breath will be very effective against Hornatzee and probably against the others as well. If he is unable to freeze Skully in his tracks, he is probably screwed. His particular anatomy makes him highly resistant to Hornatzee. The use of obscuring fog will make the hot water jets and napalm from Squid useless, requiring him to engage in melee.

It'd take a lot of blood to fully immobilize in that way - as you struck upon, he does need that stuff to live. My mental image of a conflict between Skullverine and Indomitable Snow Man, is the latter throwing a spray of blood in a slashing motion across the rapidly charging former, hitting mostly about the midsection, causing a leg to cleave mid bound, sending Skully (momentarily) to the ground. ISM would need to quickly round the back of him, steering clear of his furiously snapping jaws, and rain down axe-handle blows. The oozing ice plasma would play in to this attack, causing flesh to shatter as strikes continue in succession. It wouldn't be pretty, but nothing with Skullverine ever is.

auf_weiderzen wrote:I assume that all competitors would be set equidistant from each other, making a square with each competitor at the corners. This would cause speed, aggression, and field of view to be prime considerations from the starting perspective.

You're right on with that. I would suggest Skully would alternatively make for the largest competitor. He has but one eye, things are blurry and confused. Whatever smudge proves the biggest and brightest gains his attention, and he'll deem that poor, over-sized soul the most gripping battle available, and have at it.

auf_weiderzen wrote:Indomitable's cold breath will be very effective against Hornatzee and probably against the others as well.

Don't forget with ISM, the more he sweats, the larger the snow cloud that forms around him. This would bedevil both Hornaztee and Skullverine in a big way. Unless Hornaztee took a cue from her larvae, and bombed ISM's cloud with a stinger hoping for throat meat, she's out in the cold (as if their names weren't pun enough!).

I'm of the opinion Squid Marx melts him some Snow Man. As I stated earlier, Squid Marx inherits the Skullverine problem right away. I think the whole battle hinges on that first conflict, who walks away, and what is left of them. Squid Marx with 60% or more of his faculties, takes this fight. Otherwise, game set Yeti.