Well, it was pretty easy to figure out once I was "forced" to count calories: I'm eating too many calories on my "Up" Days. I don't know why I'm treating the Up days as "free for all" days, instead of eating sensibly.

The DD are not a problem at all--I did hCG and can easily eat just 500 calories per day for weeks. And I ate sensibly for months while my weight stabilized at 130 (but unfortunately it "redistributed" unkindly--focusing on my hips so that pants which fit me nicely last year at the same weight are tight on me this year).

So I know how to keep my weight stable, but I don't know why I can't wrap my head around following calorie counts on Up days.

I think I will have to plan my Up days the same way I plan my Down days. And figure out why I can't 'get on board' and just lose the rest of this weight.

I do the same thing except I either fast on DD's or eat below 300 calories. Now UD's are a mess even though I plan I tend to see something I want and there goes my plan. But the scale is still creeping downward ever so slowly.

I do the same thing except I either fast on DD's or eat below 300 calories. Now UD's are a mess even though I plan I tend to see something I want and there goes my plan. But the scale is still creeping downward ever so slowly.

Oh, I hope I have your experience! Because I can certainly live this way. I'm just so used to be eating A LOT of calories when I'm eating low starch/sugar (I use heavy cream, eat full fat Fage yogurt etc.) Now that I've relaxed my starch intake on my Up days, and I have to count calories, I'm having difficulty.

I haven't lost the weight I planned to lose before vacation, so I'm a bit bummed.

I also bought a wardrobe of size 8 pants (what I finally got into after getting down to 125 as my Last Dose Weight on hCG), but stabilizing 5 pounds over that took me back to size 10. I thought I would lose this weight quickly, but now I've had to go out and buy more pants in size 10 because I simply cannot do another round of hCG (can't tolerate the 500 calorie days for more than a day or so), and so far nothing has been happening with JUDDD, I think, because my calorie count on Up days has been too much.

I know what you mean about up days. Some people can eat to satiation on up days and naturally and easily be within their UD numbers just fine without counting. I am NOT one of those people. I need to count and think I will probably need to count forever. I need to pay attention to what I'm eating because I can easily easily eat too much.

In the long view of things, it's a small price to pay to be a size 12/14 (or smaller, hopefully) instead of a 26/28. At least for me.

Keep at it, you'll be in those size 8s before long. I know it. Now that you know what you've been doing that isn't supporting your goals, you have the power to change it.

__________________

"before" from the bad old days.

"Success occurs in clusters and is born in generosity" --Julia Cameron

I don't know why I start out my Up day writing down everything, and I can do this at lunch time, but by dinner time it just falls apart.

I'm pretty sure I have to plan my Up Days the way I plan my Down Days. Since I have not gained weight in the last few weeks since I tried starting this diet, I know I don't have to count calories on Up Days in the long run for maintenance which I'm grateful for. But I have to plan my Up Days to lose these 10 stubborn pounds and just get it done.

hCG protocol was so darn easy. I am so upset that I cannot seem to tolerate the 500 calorie days anymore. It was so easy! And now I can't do it. Damn.

I know that I can't lose weight without a support group (I always faltered when I stopped posting on the hCG forum), but I feel like my posts are so negative and if I was reading my posts I would be thinking--if you want to do this, just do it!

doing alternate day fasting is WAY different than sticking to 500 cals for weeks at a time. You are absolutely not alone. I had zero problems doing hcg. My DD's now near kill me. Well, I'm being dramatic, but you know what I mean!

Also, don't discount the action of the hcg. I've tried to do protocol with and without it. It really DOES help.

garnet, I notice you mention writing it down. Have you tried an online calculator? I find it much easier now that I have learned how to enter my foods online and let the calculator tell me my totals. This is most helpful with calories, but I also find it helps me to be sure I'm getting enough fiber, for instance, or not too much sodium, etc.

After lunch, I have an absolute total to see how many calories I can have for supper - that is so much help, and it somehow seems more clear when the calculator says so! Sometimes it doesn't mean I have a different supper, just that I may divide the portion. For instance, today (a DD) I chose a known meal, but 2/3 of it was the right amount of calories to finish my day, so I just portioned it before even putting it on my plate, and that felt fine.

I know what you mean about up days. Some people can eat to satiation on up days and naturally and easily be within their UD numbers just fine without counting. I am NOT one of those people. I need to count and think I will probably need to count forever. I need to pay attention to what I'm eating because I can easily easily eat too much.

In the long view of things, it's a small price to pay to be a size 12/14 (or smaller, hopefully) instead of a 26/28. At least for me.

Keep at it, you'll be in those size 8s before long. I know it. Now that you know what you've been doing that isn't supporting your goals, you have the power to change it.

Thanks--it really IS all up to me. I just hope I can figure out why I can't bring myself to get to goal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by circusgirl

doing alternate day fasting is WAY different than sticking to 500 cals for weeks at a time. You are absolutely not alone. I had zero problems doing hcg. My DD's now near kill me. Well, I'm being dramatic, but you know what I mean!

Also, don't discount the action of the hcg. I've tried to do protocol with and without it. It really DOES help.

I wish I could do hCG again! My last vial in the fridge has expired, and I seriously could not get through my last 3 attempts. Today is a DD, and although I had coffee with heavy cream yesterday morning, AND last night after dinner, I am going through "withdrawal" today that I cannot have it this morning--JUST ONE DAY! And I went 6 weeks without it on hCG.

Because I had a couple of months of stabilization, I thought I was ready for one last go at weight loss. I wasn't feeling deprived, had gone through my food "bucket list", etc, and thought I was ready to start again.

When the weight was flying off with hCG I really couldn't understand how other people could not follow the program, and now here I am in the same boat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whitlin'

garnet, I notice you mention writing it down. Have you tried an online calculator? I find it much easier now that I have learned how to enter my foods online and let the calculator tell me my totals. This is most helpful with calories, but I also find it helps me to be sure I'm getting enough fiber, for instance, or not too much sodium, etc.

After lunch, I have an absolute total to see how many calories I can have for supper - that is so much help, and it somehow seems more clear when the calculator says so! Sometimes it doesn't mean I have a different supper, just that I may divide the portion. For instance, today (a DD) I chose a known meal, but 2/3 of it was the right amount of calories to finish my day, so I just portioned it before even putting it on my plate, and that felt fine.

That's a great idea--that also forces me to be more conscious. The Down days I can do no problem--I have a set meal plan to keep me on track. The Up days are all over the place--"left to my own devices" I'm in trouble. Perhaps if I keep calculating with my cell phone I will do better. Thanks!

I'm hoping that as time goes by i won't have to be so strict and regimented about counting, that i will get to know what quantities i can eat without weighing and measuring, but for now i find that this is a good way for me.

Def plan those UD's ahead of time. Sit down the evening before or in the morning, and put in all the food you plan to eat to get to calories. This is your 'budget'. If you see something else you really want to have, you need to figure out what you will eliminate later to make room for it. It really is just like budgeting your money. If you see a cute sweater while you are out, you need to make sure it fits in your spending allowance, decide what you will go without later to make it happen now, or do without.

Have that exact same attitude with your food choices. And if it is something you def want to have, but aren't willing to give up something today for it, then plan it into your NEXT UD. With JUDDD, there is no such thing as never being able to have something, there is only "not yet".

But we do need to remember that "eating to satiety" is what got us in the position of needed to lose in the first place. Our idea of what is "full" is obviously more than we should be eating. It only makes sense that, at least at first, we would need to eat less than that in order to lose. And yes, the DD helps make that possible, but if we eat and eat on UD's, we can undo all the good we did on the dd.

The other thing to consider is that if you have added in sugar/grains/starches, you may have found a food that is a hunger/craving trigger for you. This will make both your dd's and ud's much harder. You may need to pull back on the carbs a bit, let the sirtuin enzymes build up over a couple/few weeks, and introduce carbs a bit more slowly.

__________________
Tina--wife to my dh for 24 years and mom to 4 great kids. JUDDD reboot to lose the nearly 20 pounds gained in the past 2 years.

I too think that you should plan out your day. Sounds to me like you have rebound eating going on an and maybe your insulin rollercoaster has reared its ugly head. On your up day, you are eating so high up the carb ladder, that it's probably jacking with your blood sugar, especially on the DD. And when you control the DD, it sends you back overboard in over-compensation on your UD. So it's part physical and part mental. And could also be driven by hormones and neurotransmitters such as dopamine which helps regulate appetite and satiety as well as mood and feelings of well-being and anxiety.

I think if you kill the carbs on the UD or limit them to x-amount per meal, you will have better success regulating your feelings of deprivation and have better appetite control.

For me on DD's I pull from my faith in God. I kinda use my hunger pangs as ways to deny my physical self and offer that to God for his use (not that he needs my help), but it's a fasting type of mentality.

Then I also use the mantra Leo and some of the old times drilled into my head early on and that is, "I can have that tomorrow." Funny thing is that by the time tomorrow rolls around, I don't want it anymore. Ha!

Then on UDs I plan pretty controlled meals. The difference is that I have set some allowable "indulgences" since I am a volume eater. I would rather have a LOT of something low carb and low calorie like a huge bowl of chopped salad with a tiny bit of aged cheese and a nofat dressing and add only a small amount of olive oil to it and get filled up, and then have a big portion of a veggie with about 1 tsp of butter on them and have a reasonable 3-4oz serving of meat and be comfortably stuffed from volume, than have a very dense, very rich casserole or something gooey and lucious when I know I could only have about 1cup of it before expending all my calories. You know?

So mostly 90% of my diet looks like these kinds of days. Plain food. A 3-4oz serving of grilled meat or pan-fried meat of some kind, a big old serving of a veg like broccoli, or sauteed spinach, zucchini, etc...and a huge salad. Breakfasts and lunches to me are repetitive and no brainers. I'm busy during the day and have pretty great appetite control. But by late afternoon...ahhh the beast starts to awaken! If I can nip it in the bud with an afternoon snack (I never used to snack, now post-cancer, I must in the late afternoon), I can control my dinner levels and eat sensibly 90% of the time.

My afternoon snacks are pretty small 200cal or less snacks usually. And they can kill my hunger for 2-4hours sometimes.

Sorry for rambling! I just feel for you!!! It's miserable dealing with those feelings and trying to figure things out.

I'm hoping that as time goes by i won't have to be so strict and regimented about counting, that i will get to know what quantities i can eat without weighing and measuring, but for now i find that this is a good way for me.

Hope this helps a little bit

Evie

Thanks, FairyWren!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mykidsteacher

Def plan those UD's ahead of time. Sit down the evening before or in the morning, and put in all the food you plan to eat to get to calories. This is your 'budget'. If you see something else you really want to have, you need to figure out what you will eliminate later to make room for it. It really is just like budgeting your money. If you see a cute sweater while you are out, you need to make sure it fits in your spending allowance, decide what you will go without later to make it happen now, or do without.

Have that exact same attitude with your food choices. And if it is something you def want to have, but aren't willing to give up something today for it, then plan it into your NEXT UD. With JUDDD, there is no such thing as never being able to have something, there is only "not yet".

But we do need to remember that "eating to satiety" is what got us in the position of needed to lose in the first place. Our idea of what is "full" is obviously more than we should be eating. It only makes sense that, at least at first, we would need to eat less than that in order to lose. And yes, the DD helps make that possible, but if we eat and eat on UD's, we can undo all the good we did on the dd.

The other thing to consider is that if you have added in sugar/grains/starches, you may have found a food that is a hunger/craving trigger for you. This will make both your dd's and ud's much harder. You may need to pull back on the carbs a bit, let the sirtuin enzymes build up over a couple/few weeks, and introduce carbs a bit more slowly.

Yes, I added in more starches right after reading Dr. Johnson's book. I had "magical thinking" that I could eat as I liked, and include starches without restriction on Up days. But you are right! I have to restrict bread and pasta--I can really eat too much of it.

I now have a plan for my Up days, just like I have for my Down days. Hopefully I will see a slow and steady decline in my weight. I'm now okay with not losing weight as quickly as I did with hCG--our vacation is coming up in one week, so I no longer have time to lose what I planned before then.

But this is a good way to think consciously about what I'm eating on vacation, so I hopefully will not do to much damage.

Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by pooticus

I too think that you should plan out your day. Sounds to me like you have rebound eating going on an and maybe your insulin rollercoaster has reared its ugly head. On your up day, you are eating so high up the carb ladder, that it's probably jacking with your blood sugar, especially on the DD. And when you control the DD, it sends you back overboard in over-compensation on your UD. So it's part physical and part mental. And could also be driven by hormones and neurotransmitters such as dopamine which helps regulate appetite and satiety as well as mood and feelings of well-being and anxiety.

I think if you kill the carbs on the UD or limit them to x-amount per meal, you will have better success regulating your feelings of deprivation and have better appetite control.

For me on DD's I pull from my faith in God. I kinda use my hunger pangs as ways to deny my physical self and offer that to God for his use (not that he needs my help), but it's a fasting type of mentality.

Then I also use the mantra Leo and some of the old times drilled into my head early on and that is, "I can have that tomorrow." Funny thing is that by the time tomorrow rolls around, I don't want it anymore. Ha!

Then on UDs I plan pretty controlled meals. The difference is that I have set some allowable "indulgences" since I am a volume eater. I would rather have a LOT of something low carb and low calorie like a huge bowl of chopped salad with a tiny bit of aged cheese and a nofat dressing and add only a small amount of olive oil to it and get filled up, and then have a big portion of a veggie with about 1 tsp of butter on them and have a reasonable 3-4oz serving of meat and be comfortably stuffed from volume, than have a very dense, very rich casserole or something gooey and lucious when I know I could only have about 1cup of it before expending all my calories. You know?

So mostly 90% of my diet looks like these kinds of days. Plain food. A 3-4oz serving of grilled meat or pan-fried meat of some kind, a big old serving of a veg like broccoli, or sauteed spinach, zucchini, etc...and a huge salad. Breakfasts and lunches to me are repetitive and no brainers. I'm busy during the day and have pretty great appetite control. But by late afternoon...ahhh the beast starts to awaken! If I can nip it in the bud with an afternoon snack (I never used to snack, now post-cancer, I must in the late afternoon), I can control my dinner levels and eat sensibly 90% of the time.

My afternoon snacks are pretty small 200cal or less snacks usually. And they can kill my hunger for 2-4hours sometimes.

Sorry for rambling! I just feel for you!!! It's miserable dealing with those feelings and trying to figure things out.

Thanks so much! I do realize I eat a lot of high fat items that really use up my allowed calorie intake for the Up Day. I plan on eating more veggies and it's healthier anyway, and will give me more to eat.

I'm sorry to hear you have had to deal with cancer--I hope you are well now and taking good care of yourself.

I'm hoping that as time goes by i won't have to be so strict and regimented about counting, that i will get to know what quantities i can eat without weighing and measuring, but for now i find that this is a good way for me.

Hope this helps a little bit

Sorry some stuff got removed from my post by the mods - so it didn't end up as helpful as i'd hoped LOL!!

Yes, I added in more starches right after reading Dr. Johnson's book. I had "magical thinking" that I could eat as I liked, and include starches without restriction on Up days. But you are right! I have to restrict bread and pasta--I can really eat too much of it.

Thanks so much! I do realize I eat a lot of high fat items that really use up my allowed calorie intake for the Up Day. I plan on eating more veggies and it's healthier anyway, and will give me more to eat.

Yes, i have to avoid bread and pasta - i just feel so awful after eating them - and i'm just now reading Wheat Belly which does seem, to me at least, to explain a lot (why it makes me feel so bad and why we can eat too much of it!). I find i'm ok with other carbs like fruit and nuts. I find that i feel pretty satisfied with the low carb, higher fat items.

I guess this JUDDD journey is all about discovering what works for us as individuals whether in weight loss mode or in maintenance. At least the woe is pretty forgiving of our experimentation!

Def plan those UD's ahead of time. Sit down the evening before or in the morning, and put in all the food you plan to eat to get to calories. This is your 'budget'. If you see something else you really want to have, you need to figure out what you will eliminate later to make room for it. It really is just like budgeting your money. If you see a cute sweater while you are out, you need to make sure it fits in your spending allowance, decide what you will go without later to make it happen now, or do without.

Have that exact same attitude with your food choices. And if it is something you def want to have, but aren't willing to give up something today for it, then plan it into your NEXT UD. With JUDDD, there is no such thing as never being able to have something, there is only "not yet".

But we do need to remember that "eating to satiety" is what got us in the position of needed to lose in the first place. Our idea of what is "full" is obviously more than we should be eating. It only makes sense that, at least at first, we would need to eat less than that in order to lose. And yes, the DD helps make that possible, but if we eat and eat on UD's, we can undo all the good we did on the dd.

The other thing to consider is that if you have added in sugar/grains/starches, you may have found a food that is a hunger/craving trigger for you. This will make both your dd's and ud's much harder. You may need to pull back on the carbs a bit, let the sirtuin enzymes build up over a couple/few weeks, and introduce carbs a bit more slowly.