as for as I know some states say they are and some don't, I think its mostly the people and all the interest with CCD and all the talk about bee's the last few years, I heard people say they were on some states endangered species list but I didn't see any, I know a lot of pest control companies don't want to kill hives in homes because it's against the law to kill honey bee's, but I also heard they can kill them if they want to but choose not too. I aint really sure but I tell all I can that it's against the law to kill them, nice if everyone thinks that way, good rumor to start if it's not true....

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THAT's ME TO THE LEFT JUST 5 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!!!!

Never be afraid to try something new. Amateurs built the ark, Professionals built the Titanic

I'm with TwT. I've heard rumors that they are in some states, but have not seen the actual laws. I'm sure they are not in most states. Exterminators kill them all the time, which is not only unfortunate for the bees and the planet, but when they are in people's walls it's unfortunate for the home owner.

Yeah, I don't think so either, I know that they are not here in MI. I just found out that a lot of blueberry farmers around here kill swarms left behind after the pollenators are pulled out...the big beekeepers don't care about a few swarms, and its not a big enough deal for the farmers to spend hours trying to find a beekeeper to get the swarm.

And most homeowners around here have a really really hard time finding beekeepers to chop the bees out of their houses. (I sure don't want to...)

To me, bees are like dogs. Pet dogs are awesome. Wild dogs are bad. Sadly there are situations where dogs need to be killed. We really do have plenty of bees around, its not like they are rare or anything....

I have also hear that bees are protected by law. I think it is a rumor, or they are protected unless a pest/threat, or whatever. I kind of wondered, though, who is going to enforce it.

Regardless, I have been pleased that many of our local pest control companies avoid killing them. Several of them have sent numerous swarm calls my way. They have also sent cutouts.

I am new to all aspects of beekeeping, but am obsessed (ask my wife LOL). Cutouts are my weakest are, but I am learning quickly. I am just happy to find that many of our local companies are happy to send all honey bee issues my way, just to avoid killing them. Not all of them, but most.

I vow to do my best to perpetuate the rumor, though. ;)

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"Fear not the night. Fear that which walks the night. I am that which walks the night, BUT only EVIL need fear me..."-Lt. Col. David Grossman

on topic: honey bees cannot actually be endangered in the united states - they're not indigenous.off topic: joker, I looked up Lt. Col. Grossman because your quote intrigued me. I found an article titled "on sheep, sheepdogs[,] and wolves. - it's a perfect analogy.

Bee Happy, Yes, that is a great analogy. I think Grossman was quoting someone else there, but Grossman is an extremely intelligent and amazing man IMO. If you ever have the opportunity to hear him speak, or read any of his books, I would recommend you do so. Great insight into our current domestic security levels, and mindset for nation's approach to it.

Back to the Bees; All of these points, regarding the killing/not killing of our bees, are great. In our area, it seems, people are migrating toward the attitude of protection. I am new to the fullblown obsession, so I don't know if the attitude is new, or not.

Since, I have been squirming deeper and deeper into captures/cutouts I am surprised at how open to the idea people are. I expected to find more resistance. I hope the local trend continues.

I am generally opposed to more government intervention. I think, since this is my opinion, that the responsibility for educating rests on my shoulders. I am kind of glad that the Honey Bee isn't on a list, at this point. WE need to educate more people, and protect the Bee. Hopefully, if we do our job, the Bee will never "need" the G intervention, and we can continue to adore/enjoy the intriguing little buggers. :-D

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"Fear not the night. Fear that which walks the night. I am that which walks the night, BUT only EVIL need fear me..."-Lt. Col. David Grossman

:thunder: Firstly accept my apology for straying off topic I never would have thought that I had so much to say about bees. I'd like to start with my first experience with honey bees as I believe it will be of interest to many of the professionals one of which I am not. The year was 1976 and I was four, and I am suddenly struck with a longing for a simpler time, sighh...! Not in school yet, I would spend my days catching bees in the clover in the front yard. Every day I would catch a few in a jar, with air holes in the top, full of clover, and every morning they would be dead. I couldn't figure out why as they had flowers, air, and water. like I said, I was four. So, as four year olds are not known for their keen awareness of time, I could not say exactly how long this went on, despite the memory remaining very fresh. After several days, weeks, I don't recall, I'm assuming the proper bee messengers having gone through the proper bee channels of bee communication had notified the proper bee officials. Having been told of the problem of the disappearing workers, they then mobilized the hive militia. Playing in the clover with my jar, I noticed the buzzing of the "Happy little bees", had grown unusually loud. Looking up from my "work", I was astounded to see, that the sky was black with the presence, of the united hive air force. So I calmly proceeded to run screaming for my mommy as four year olds will often do. To my utter horrification, my younger sister of two, had decided to play with the deadbolt that very morning. My mother so happened was vacuuming in the other room. Looking over my shoulder, I noticed, the now not so happy little bees, were still hanging out. Filling the sky, and buzzing menacingly about. Now completely panic stricken, I began to flail wildly at the door, kicking and screaming, just a little louder, than I ever had before. After what seemed an eternity, this caught the attention of my mother, and I was let in, to safety.The End (see next post for moral)

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"The tree of liberty must occasionally be refreshed with the blood of patriots and tyrants, it is it's natural manure." ,Thomas Jefferson.

As my lengthy style of writing has exhausted the resources of the provided posting box I am posting the moral to the above story here.

Moral is as follows : I was never stung ; So then, assuming that the collective bee chemical consciousness, or whatever, had the deductive reasoning capability, to recognize me as a human in the larval state. Coupled with the compassion to spare me, whether chemical or not, despite the fact that I had killed many of there workers, do we not with our " obviously superior intellect " , at least owe them the same courtesy. Are they protected, if so , not nearly enough. Should they be protected now there 's the no brainer that makes me angry!" So very angry ! "to quote a famous cosmonaut. If " The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few " and we can all agree on breathing oxygen, why then has such rudimentary legislation not already been passed. Perhaps because it does not promote the interests of the sentient beings who unfalteringly posses our devoted politicians in Washington D.C., I. E. The pharmaceutical , Insurance , Oil , and I suppose now we should add the medical and corrections corporations. I fear that the world' s greatest capitalist institution has finally sold it's soul for just a little more profit. God save America because no one else seems to care.

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"The tree of liberty must occasionally be refreshed with the blood of patriots and tyrants, it is it's natural manure." ,Thomas Jefferson.

I'm pretty sure they ARE NOT protected here in FL. Just today as my wife and I left work for a lunch break we passed a parked truck on the side of the road that had a big sign on the door that read "BEE KILLER". I recognized the company right off the bat....google bee removal in Florida and their name is the first to pop up. Anyway, I backed up to talk to the guy and could smell the chems from at least 100' away. When I asked if he though he ALWAYS had to kill the bees he said (in a heavy latin accent) " They have much disease they need it" I asked him if he has ever kept bees and he said no.

I tell you, it was all I could do to hold my wife (Peggy) back from wringing this guy's neck. I've already set up a meeting with our local bee inspector to see if I can't at least reduce this guy's client base somehow. I know that there's little I can do about his practices for now, but I'll certainly raise a voice in opposition!

Scott

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"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Hardwood, you have a problem in Florida that is hard to combat. Jerry Hayes recommends killing them all and not saving any feral colonies, not even unknown source swarms. Until you get him relieved of his vocation, you don't stand a chance.

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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

I think honey bees should be respected...but laws against killing hives? That is silly. Just got a call from guy who has some in his house and doesn't want them there. Whether they get sprayed or I try to save them...the hive is dead.

Bees are still big swarms of bugs. I love them. But they aren't sacred or anything any more than any bug, bird, or animal. There is a place for everything, and plenty of places bees shouldn't. If there were millions of happy beekeepers willing to jump at every pia cutout, then we could protect them. But I'm not willing to, and neither are the 100's of beeks in my area, apparently.

I agree that society in general is still far too squiemish and scared of them and tends to go the kill route too often, though.

Dogs are awesome too, but there are plenty of dogs that need the receiving end of a 9mm slug (or a happy sleepy shot if available for the less aggresive).

I'm surprised anybody has a Latin accent. How could you tell? I thought Latin is a dead language and hasn't been spoken for many years??? :? :-D

:thunder: Oh yes, of course, silly me, laws to protect bees, what could I possibly bee thinking. Perhaps you have a better method of protecting bees in mind. Maybe we could arm them all individually with minaturized Gloch nines. Oh yeah, but that would get you shot! Well , ummm, maybe we could put them all in little bubbles, but that would prevent them from pollenating the planet, and the world would become a giant dust ball devoid of oxygen and life. Well perhaps we could set up bee preserves to protect them in certain areas then maybe only half the world would go dead, you can have that half! No, I can't see a better way, and mind you, I don't propose that anyone should ever be jailed for killing bees but rather that fines be imposed of such weight as to annihilate repeat offenders. I have just spent the last two years working maintenance for a borderline slum lord, and would you believe, the poor bastard, only clears about 40,000 a month. Maybe 43,000 since he won' t have to pay me anymore. The point is I, was sent three or four times, in two years, to kill active hives in his buildings. Only once did I do so, and only because I was ill equipped to remove them safely, and deemed them a real threat to the tenant because of the number of bees gaining entry to the apartment. The other times I simply refused. I have a friend of a friend who' s brother runs a removal service, and each time I would decline to attack a hive, inside a wall, usually on a latter by myself, with a can of fogger, hmph the nerve of me. I would include the number of the bee remover on the incomplete work order. But they'll always bee a kiss ass, and he killed five hives, in two years, to save a few dollars, he won't notice anyway, because he's too cheap to spend it. But I'm sure his mother would bee proud, I' m just not sure about his grand children, but his son's are young, so maybe they'll run out of oxygen before he ever has any. This is a very serious matter and since the bees help produce the oxygen and we only breathe it, perhaps it is they who should bee spraying us !!!

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"The tree of liberty must occasionally be refreshed with the blood of patriots and tyrants, it is it's natural manure." ,Thomas Jefferson.

I removed some hornets from under a lady's deck a few weeks ago with spray, knocked it down and tore it apart. The Lady and boyfriend went on there deck and were putting up the umbrella on the table when the hornets came buzzing through the cracks in the boards and stung both of them. She told me how bad it hurt when she got stung on the finger and it would not let go. He told me the hornet grabbed onto the hair on his arm and stung him and could not believe how difficult it was to get it off him. She called me because she thought they might be honey bees and that maybe they should be saved. I had a look and they were hornets in a paper hive. I assured her that they were a wasp, that they were plenty to go around and the world would not miss them. I explained that they eat other insects to feed there young and even eat out honey bees. She was more than happy to pay me to rid her deck of the wasps. Whether they were bees or wasps, it is the same deal, a person should be held hostage from there property by insects.

I suppose if there were a law to protect them you could apply for an exemption, present your case to a board, and get a permit to destroy them. We should probably provide a lawyer to represent the bees or wasps case, after all they have rights too!! Don't worry about cost, we would simply put a tax on all food we grow to pay for all the work the bees and wasps are rightfully owed for the pollination and other services they provide.

It would also create jobs and wealth. Ahh!! I wonder how people survived before there was a law for darn near everything?

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The moment a person forms a theory, his imagination sees in every object only the traits which favor that theory

How can one be an expert and a fool at once? I will be the first to admit that we have too many laws. I am certainly not an advocate of big government. I guess i' m going to go into bee removal, I need a suit. I find it ironic, that so many professionals would argue against bee protection laws. Especially, when it would only do, for bee removal, what similar restrictions imposed by the E.P.A., on freon, did for the air condition business. Triple the work, triple the price, and protect your market from scabs like me, by requiring licensing. You should be the first people in line to lobby for a bee protection law, but oh yeah, you'd have to get behind those geeky scientist guys. They seem to be concerned that the world' s bees are disappearing at an alarming rate or some such nonsense phhh..It seems that by the bee lawyer reference you must have seen Bee Movie. Did you ever happen to see Road Warrior? Mel Gibson? Beyond Thunderdome? That is very much how our planet would look without bees to pollinate the vegetation for reproduction, and in a very short time. Ever heard of the great dust cloud that covered the mid-west, in this very country, turning the sky black for years. I can't recall the specific name, but it happened on the great plains, after the great land rush, when the settlers, farmed the land. They harvested and failed to plant a winter crop with nothing to hold down the soil where the lush prarie grass had always grown. They sat awaiting the mid-west winds that we now, all know, tear through the Tornado Alley every year. This resulted in a horrendous dust storm the likes of which humanity had neither seen before nor since. It lasted for an eternity and permeated everything for years the people who lived there ate, wore, slept, and bathed, in dust. The bare earth, exposed to the wind, the precious topsoil ,was torn away, compounding the problem and perpetuating the nightmare. That is very much how our world would look without bees to pollinate the vegetation for reproduction, and in a very short time. So then conceding that we have too many laws, partially due to neglecting to remove antiquated laws from the books. We have laws that read like the old testament in pig latin, and are as relevant in today's world, and add new ones every year. Then sure, let' s say, for the sake of argument ; That we have an over expanded, bloated, self serving, doughnut scarfing, government . Where incidentally they now average forty percent more in wages and benefits than the average private sector employee. Just for the sake of argument. All these things established.So then should we then not pass the law, that protects the bees, that pollinate the vegetation, that holds down our top soil, where we grow our food, so we can afford one more trip to Wal-Mart a month. Maybe we can move the Wal-mutt under ground when the dust storm engulfs the Earth. How much will that cost? I' m not talking about saving hornets, nor should they be eradicated. I do not support the notion of any exemption either, I live in New Orleans it is one of the hottest climates this country has to offer and the bees still migrate. I lived for a time in my great grandfathers cypress shack, in the swamp. My grandfather and I did the plumbing, because there was no bathroom and the only running water was in the kitchen sink. My little brother and I dug the septic tank hole by hand, after renting a pump to keep the hole dry. We moved in during the dead of winter.Spring came at last, and with it, a giant bee nest, inside the wall, right near the side entrance, which entered the livingroom. We lived there several years, didn' t bother the bees, and they didn' t bother us. But as I was saying, bees are migratory and as a post above stated they occupy a space so barring extreme allergic reaction, why not let them stay, and let them leave, then fill the space, and close off the access points. This would be a cheap, easy solution for most home owners. As for millionaire slumlords, let them pay a removal service, the few times a year it becomes necessary.

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"The tree of liberty must occasionally be refreshed with the blood of patriots and tyrants, it is it's natural manure." ,Thomas Jefferson.

protecting critters always has unintended consequences. protecting bees would be stupid on top of having unintended consequences. i do (some) removals. i have also suggested to people that extermination of their bees might be their best option. bees can't always be saved. sometimes, there are circumstances where they shouldn't be saved, or where saving them would cause a great inconvenience or danger to people.

bees are great. they do great stuff. i love having them. i do my best to save them. people come first.

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As for millionaire slumlords, let them pay a removal service, the few times a year it becomes necessary.

i know a lot of people who own rentals, myself included, but i know "no millionaire slumlords". perhaps you have watched to many movies?

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....