So, anyone else finally jumping on board the iPad train? There was no way I was going to be able to pass up the rumored specs in this revision, almost all of which turned out to be true. Looking forward to all of the confusion the rebranding brings about in the general populace, too.

There's a comparison to other tablets. Don't be fooled by the Apple marketing team. Apple never makes the "best" product in terms of specs or features. If you're going to buy it for the way it looks, then by all means, that's your choice.

We have 3 iphones at my house (me, wife, kiddo) and decided to go iPad with our tablet purchase. Its just a giant iPhone without the phone feature. My kid loves it and uses it everyday. We do synch things with the cloud feature between the phones and the iPad which is cool. My wife wanted it because using iPhone for a lot of things online was hurting her eyes. She still uses the iPhone. I am personally underwhelmed, but was underwhelmed by every tablet I looked at. I prefer a laptop and still prefer a mouse and keyboard lol. Keeping old school - but I like tube amps, Chuck Taylors and cars with carburetors.

My wife desperately wants one, but I'm thinking we'd get the same use out of the Kindle Fire. Neither of us would use a tablet as anything more than a portable internettin' and emailin' device. Maybe play "Angry Birds" or read a book or two on it as well. Or use it to placate the kids with videos and whatnot. I can't justify spending $400+ (WiFi only) for something that I'll spend most of the time wiping small fingerprints off of.

My wife desperately wants one, but I'm thinking we'd get the same use out of the Kindle Fire. Neither of us would use a tablet as anything more than a portable internettin' and emailin' device. Maybe play "Angry Birds" or read a book or two on it as well. Or use it to placate the kids with videos and whatnot. I can't justify spending $400+ (WiFi only) for something that I'll spend most of the time wiping small fingerprints off of.

That's what most are for anyway... Consumption devices. This is why I like the current Asus Transformer and the new one coming out. They have an awesome keyboard dock that can give it 16hrs of battery life. So it's a great notebook replacement that lets you create something. I'll be getting a Transformer Pad Infinity 700 when it comes out to replace my notebook.

There's a comparison to other tablets. Don't be fooled by the Apple marketing team. Apple never makes the "best" product in terms of specs or features. If you're going to buy it for the way it looks, then by all means, that's your choice.

I'd argue that specs are the least important factor to account for when shopping for a tablet these days. Specs mean nothing if the software and hardware is poorly optimized and sucks battery life, both of which are prevalent problems with the vast majority of Android tablets. The app environment and price are much more important than specs now that all of the major tablets have similar specs. The competition between the iPad app ecosystem and the Android tab app ecosystem is unbelievably lopsided towards Apple at this point. The Transformer Prime, arguably (not really) the best Android tablet on the market is $500 and has almost the exact same battery life as the iPad 2 (and the 3rd gen iPad's battery life is supposed to be similar, if not identical) sans dock. On board and expandable storage, while nice to have a lot of, is becoming less important with the increasing prevalence of cloud storage.

The tablet market is a very murky market to navigate, and really the only way to safely navigate it is to identify what you want a tablet to do and to set a budget. Android is uncontested in the sub-$400 market, but there's a lot of shit in that market too. My primary motivation for finally deciding to get one was wanting to buy into the iOS app ecosystem; the new generation's specs were the final tipping point. I don't see myself doing much more than consuming media with it at this point, but if the movie and photo apps are as powerful, sleek, and easy to use as they appear then I can absolutely see myself replacing my PC with it for everything except gaming. I'm fortunate in that I know exactly what I want from a tablet, and I'm confident the 3rd gen iPad is what will meet my needs best. But my needs are not indicative of everyone else's. I'm willing to bet the Asus MeMO 370T will be the tablet that the average consumer should look at first once it finally releases.

tl;dr: Specs are far from the deciding factor in the tablet market. App ecosystems, performance, and price are all much more important. And all of that said, there is no way I would ever choose iOS over Android for a phone. It's easily the best phone OS in production, but the phone and tablet experience are two very different things.

/ez wrote:

Love mine. first Apple product I own, besides the Airport Express.

got one of these for it which makes it that much more convenient to use:

I'd argue that specs are the least important factor to account for when shopping for a tablet these days.

Couldn't disagree with you more on that one.

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Specs mean nothing if the software and hardware is poorly optimized and sucks battery life, both of which are prevalent problems with the vast majority of Android tablets.

That has to do with the software developers, not the hardware devs. What type of "optimization" differences do you think exist between hardware products? Most computer companies use the same 3rd party providers for their hardware needs. 955 of the high end tablets use the same components.

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The app environment and price are much more important than specs now that all of the major tablets have similar specs. The competition between the iPad app ecosystem and the Android tab app ecosystem is unbelievably lopsided towards Apple at this point.

Any evidence to back this up?

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The Transformer Prime, arguably (not really) the best Android tablet on the market is $500 and has almost the exact same battery life as the iPad 2 (and the 3rd gen iPad's battery life is supposed to be similar, if not identical) sans dock. On board and expandable storage, while nice to have a lot of, is becoming less important with the increasing prevalence of cloud storage.

So the upcoming iPad 3 has the same specs, less features/usability, and the same battery life as a one year old piece of equipment, and it costs more. Yeah, great deal you're getting there. Cloud storage is seriously a joke. I'm not going to actually get into it too deeply, but needing to always be connected to the Internet is not a positive feature.

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tl;dr: Specs are far from the deciding factor in the tablet market. App ecosystems, performance, and price are all much more important. And all of that said, there is no way I would ever choose iOS over Android for a phone. It's easily the best phone OS in production, but the phone and tablet experience are two very different things.

Price is tied in with specs. Why would you pay top dollar prices for 2-3 year old technology? It makes no sense. Apple's draconian rules and limitations are not features that should be praised. Having a modern device with no alternative inputs/outputs is retarded. Apple forces you to buy a $30 cable so you can hook up your device to a TV/computer, or whatever, when an HDMI cable would work better. The restrict the very thing that actually made their business the giant it is today... They are suffering from ladder syndrome. Where once someone reaches the top they try to remove the lower rungs so other's can't climb and compete.

1) You'll have to explain why specs are most important in a tablet then, because I don't see it anymore. "Experience" for the cost seems to be much more important than the actual guts judging by iPad and Kindle Fire sales figures. Taking from your software remark, the KF's software optimization has more to do with its performance than its hardware. I think the KF would benefit from a bit of a bump in hardware as the ones I've played with have felt a bit underpowered, but it really doesn't need much of a hardware improvement to become one of the best tablet experiences on the market. And I'll get into why it's so cheap and has such a low spec later, aside from it being meant to be a fancy ereader that also does video and music as opposed to a being a "real" tablet.

2) I could have been more clear. The developer's ability to optimize the OS powering their devices is a bigger factor than hardware in app performance (though hardware does have an effect) and has some effect on battery life, but hardware power demands definitely play heavily into battery life. Those Tegra 3's consume a lot more power than the GPU in a XOOM. The Thunderbolt was universally panned for it's poor battery life when it debuted 4G LTE because the hardware pulling down those kinds of speeds requires more power than 3G. Hardware is always going to be tweaked to get the balance between power and battery life to an acceptable level, and hardware manufacturers aren't abandoning the idea of making their tech more power efficient. The reason we're seeing bigger batteries included stock and an emerging market for 3rd party "expansion" batteries is because the hardware and the configurations they're put in are growing more power hungry. Which is why I think the next big technological improvement to get excited over is a breakthrough in mobile battery technology.

3) Regarding pricing, see: Kindle Fire. Regarding the Android app ecosystem (iPad ecosystem): no, because Google doesn't make it easy to distinguish if an app is optimized for a tablet. Nor, to my knowledge, has Google commented on how many tablet optimized apps are available on the market (this may change once their Nexus tablet project is unveiled). The market may say an app is compatible with a Galaxy Tab, but compatible != optimized. Graphics dependent apps optimized for a 3.5" phone screen look awful blown up on a 10.1" tablet screen (less so on a 7" tab, but generally still noticeable).

Which brings up another point: wouldn't it be nice to have a fairly accurate idea of how many apps you have available to you that are optimized for your Android tablet when shopping for one? Instead of having solid, accurate estimates to work from I've instead had to form my own impression from other communities I frequent and tech sites I read. That impression being that while the Android tab app market is slowly growing, it still pales in comparison to the iPad market. And I'm reasonably sure the average consumer doesn't spend nearly as much time as I do keeping up with the market and discussing it with others because the average consumer doesn't have the same level of interest in it that I do (though it sure would be nice if they did). So those walking into a store to buy an Android tablet expecting the same level of app support as the iPad are going to be really disappointed. If you have current, accurate figures for the number of apps optimized for Android tablets I'd be genuinely interested in seeing them as that'd make it easier for me sell people on Android tabs. And since we're asking each other for citation, I'd also be interested in seeing some for "955 of the high end tablets use the same components," (I'll assume you meant 95%) since screen tech alone varies depending on the manufacturer and the subset of LCD tech they use.

4) The Transformer Prime was released in Taiwan on 12/1/11 and 12/12/11 in the US. By my math that doesn't make it more than a year old. Comparable battery life is impressive considering it's powering a screen with a higher resolution display than a 1080p HDTV and a quad-core GPU while pulling data down off of 4G LTE and shooting 1080p video. So yes, that is a great deal. As for "less features/usability", you're getting back into app ecosystem territory. Which again, unfortunately, isn't nearly as strong as iOS's. App support will make or break a mobile OS (see: webOS and the Blackberry tablet OS), and app support on iOS in general is still the best in the market. There are physical features on the Transformer Prime that I wouldn't mind seeing on the iPad (expandable removable storage and a better front-facing camera being among them), but again, for my own needs (which is what I was trying to convey in the first place), the iPad meets all of my needs and does so better than anything else on the market. And not every port and slot inclusion decision is made to force a standard (though I suppose with Apple you never really know). More often they're design decisions that bring down thickness and weight. The comfort level between a 10.1" Toshiba Thrive with full-size USB and HDMI ports and a Blackberry Playbook with a 7" screen and micro ports is striking. As with everything else about tablets, design decisions play into finding the right balance between features and function.

Additionally, the combination of the new iPad's hardware, new apps, and updates to existing apps actually makes content creation on a tablet not just feasible, but simple and powerful. That not only adds functionality by default, but it changes the whole concept of what tablets are: they're no longer strictly consumption devices. Even better, this is being done without the need for external devices like expensive bluetooth/dock keyboards or physical storage devices.

Tablets and phones are designed to be "always on" devices. Hell, computers in general have had always on functionality for more than a decade. The distinction isn't between connectivity state anymore (online or offline); it's between what type of connectivity a consumer needs (WiFi vs. data network for mobile, toss wired in for PC's). There is no good reason to not use cloud storage on a mobile device (which again, are always connected); your files in the cloud are at least as secure as they are on the device itself. Some services, such as Dropbox and iCloud, let you download items stored in the cloud right to your device. So even if you do somehow enter the rare situation where you're not connected, with a little forethought you can still get your files off the cloud for offline storage. You clear up physical storage space by storing items in the cloud, and have an easy to use, readily available backup system for your files. I think backing up to more than just the cloud is very important, but the point is that actually backing up files is incredibly simple and cheap for everyone now.

5) Agreed that price is tied into specs, but it's not tied solely into specs. It's also tied into licensing fees, various taxes/tariffs, how big of a hit a company wants to take on the device, other revenue options (like content delivery systems), and good old fashioned consumer demand. Android is awesome because you don't have to license the OS to use it, unlike Windows Phone (Apple obviously doesn't license iOS). For companies that solely develop hardware (HTC, Samsung, LG, etc), their devices are priced to make a profit on their hardware since that's their only revenue stream. Amazon takes a hit on the Kindle Fire and makes their money by selling content, but uses older and cheaper hardware to minimize the hit they take. Apple has the best of both worlds since they make a profit on their devices and make money through content distribution. I won't argue iPad price points because I think previous versions were overpriced in general, and because I don't know what the 3rd gen iPad's manufacturing costs are, but the 3rd gen iPad I think is the first iPad that is worth the price tag (easily, in fact). There are also patent fees that need to be covered such as the "Microsoft Patent Tax" (Google is probably going to wind up paying an "Apple Patent Tax", which I'm hoping doesn't result in some sort of licensing fee for Android).

Also, you definitely paid for old tech in that Asus Transformer. The Tegra 2 included in it was released in Q1 2010, and the Transformer was released at the end of April 2011 in the US. And at $400-500 (and another $160 for the optional external keyboard dock), it was no small chunk of change either. If you feel you've received your money's worth out it, that's fantastic. I know I wouldn't have been happy paying that much for the experience it provides. But arguing the point of paying "top dollar prices for 2-3 year old technology" is a bit silly, no? I'm sure teardown articles for all tablets will reveal old technology in them because old hardware is cheap and brings down the retail cost.

It's kind of funny in that after typing all of that, I'm even more confident that I made the right choice for myself by getting the new iPad. And I learned some stuff I wasn't aware of. So thanks, I guess?

1) You'll have to explain why specs are most important in a tablet then, because I don't see it anymore. "Experience" for the cost seems to be much more important than the actual guts judging by iPad and Kindle Fire sales figures. Taking from your software remark, the KF's software optimization has more to do with its performance than its hardware. I think the KF would benefit from a bit of a bump in hardware as the ones I've played with have felt a bit underpowered, but it really doesn't need much of a hardware improvement to become one of the best tablet experiences on the market. And I'll get into why it's so cheap and has such a low spec later, aside from it being meant to be a fancy ereader that also does video and music as opposed to a being a "real" tablet.

Well the Fire does have a less powerful CPU and is running Android 2.3 (which is old as shit). If they were to upgrade to 4.0 when it comes out, it would make it a lot better... If the hardware could run it smoothly. Software is only limited by the hardware. Always has, always will. This is why hardware specs are important. It's not the only important thing, but it isn't something that should be dismissed. Especially when considering the price.

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2) I could have been more clear. The developer's ability to optimize the OS powering their devices is a bigger factor than hardware in app performance (though hardware does have an effect) and has some effect on battery life, but hardware power demands definitely play heavily into battery life.

True, but that's not something that means a lot. When you allow multi-tasking you're going to drain battery life. When you walk around with Wi-Fi, GPS, and 4 different apps running all the time, it's going to drain your battery.

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3) Regarding pricing, see: Kindle Fire. Regarding the Android app ecosystem (iPad ecosystem): no, because Google doesn't make it easy to distinguish if an app is optimized for a tablet. Nor, to my knowledge, has Google commented on how many tablet optimized apps are available on the market (this may change once their Nexus tablet project is unveiled). The market may say an app is compatible with a Galaxy Tab, but compatible != optimized. Graphics dependent apps optimized for a 3.5" phone screen look awful blown up on a 10.1" tablet screen (less so on a 7" tab, but generally still noticeable).

The app ecosystem has nothing to do with Apple fans being blind to the reality of Apple's hardware and marketing buzz words.

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wouldn't it be nice to have a fairly accurate idea of how many apps you have available to you that are optimized for your Android tablet when shopping for one? Instead of having solid, accurate estimates to work from I've instead had to form my own impression from other communities I frequent and tech sites I read. That impression being that while the Android tab app market is slowly growing, it still pales in comparison to the iPad market. And I'm reasonably sure the average consumer doesn't spend nearly as much time as I do keeping up with the market and discussing it with others because the average consumer doesn't have the same level of interest in it that I do (though it sure would be nice if they did). So those walking into a store to buy an Android tablet expecting the same level of app support as the iPad are going to be really disappointed. If you have current, accurate figures for the number of apps optimized for Android tablets I'd be genuinely interested in seeing them as that'd make it easier for me sell people on Android tabs. And since we're asking each other for citation, I'd also be interested in seeing some for "955 of the high end tablets use the same components," (I'll assume you meant 95%) since screen tech alone varies depending on the manufacturer and the subset of LCD tech they use.

Apple gets their CPU made from SamsungRam chips from Toshiba and SamsungTouch-screen chips from BroadcomIPS Display: LG DisplayTouch panels: WintekLCD drivers: Novatek MicroelectronicsBatteries: 60% are made in Taiwan by Simplo Technology, 40% by Dynapack InternationalAccelerometer: STMicroelectronics

There is nothing special about Apple hardware except the special order CPU they use. It makes much more sense for these companies to buy existing components, rather than designing/manufacturing their own.

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4) The Transformer Prime was released in Taiwan on 12/1/11 and 12/12/11 in the US. By my math that doesn't make it more than a year old.

You're right, I misread that comment.

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Comparable battery life is impressive considering it's powering a screen with a higher resolution display than a 1080p HDTV and a quad-core GPU while pulling data down off of 4G LTE and shooting 1080p video. So yes, that is a great deal.

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As for "less features/usability", you're getting back into app ecosystem territory.

No. I'm not. It lacks hardware connectivity options. Plain and simple, they are forcing you to pay $30 for an attachment that uses USB technology to connect to other devices. They could easily put on a micro-HDMI or micro_USB port in addition to their bullshit 35-pin connector, which is literally a re-purposed USB cable.

This is smart marketing, not smart hardware design.

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More often they're design decisions that bring down thickness and weight.

Except that the iPad 3 is larger and heavier than it's upcoming competitors.

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Additionally, the combination of the new iPad's hardware, new apps, and updates to existing apps actually makes content creation on a tablet not just feasible, but simple and powerful.

Children's finger paints and playing with a drum simulator does not qualify as content creation. You need text input that is better than Apple's touch keyboard (which is already behind Swipe keyboards) which the transformer dock allows.

No tablet is good for content creation, that's just a fact. They are pure consumption devices.

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There is no good reason to not use cloud storage on a mobile device (which again, are always connected); your files in the cloud are at least as secure as they are on the device itself.

That is nowhere close to being true. You probably think that your ATM or Credit Card with the chips are secure too right? Hardly. Being "always on" is not a valid option for people who actually care about privacy and security.

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but the 3rd gen iPad I think is the first iPad that is worth the price tag (easily, in fact).

Take a look at the comparison I posted earlier again. For an extra $129 the only advantage Apple has is the slightly better CPU. Hardly worth it.

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Also, you definitely paid for old tech in that Asus Transformer. The Tegra 2 included in it was released in Q1 2010, and the Transformer was released at the end of April 2011 in the US. And at $400-500 (and another $160 for the optional external keyboard dock), it was no small chunk of change either. If you feel you've received your money's worth out it, that's fantastic. I know I wouldn't have been happy paying that much for the experience it provides. But arguing the point of paying "top dollar prices for 2-3 year old technology" is a bit silly, no? I'm sure teardown articles for all tablets will reveal old technology in them because old hardware is cheap and brings down the retail cost.

But the difference is... Apple charges you inflated prices and justifies it with bullshit marketing buzz words.

Yes, it's a parody, but it speaks the truth about Apple. This isn't a secret either. Apple always introduces a product with limited functionality compared to competitors. They say it's a feature and that their system is better. A year later, they integrate these features and claim that Apple is being revolutionary and forward thinking. And people hop on board like lemmings.

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It's kind of funny in that after typing all of that, I'm even more confident that I made the right choice for myself by getting the new iPad. And I learned some stuff I wasn't aware of. So thanks, I guess?

If you think you're making an informed choice, then by all means be glad with it. I for one refuse to buy into the Apple hype. There are far too many examples of them deploying inferior products at inflated prices.

Their slick UI is the only thing that is consistently better than their competitors. But that is hardly enough to justify a purchase from me. Connectivity, hardware specs, openness and freedom is far more valuable imo.

I've got an ipad 2, and looooveee it. It was given to me by my dear husband for our anniversary (I gave him something totally lame).

It's much easier to play on than it is to work on, and I would say that it's an awesome toy.

However, having collected a conglomerate of work apps and configuring them in particularly useful ways, it is also an awesome work device. Several of the apps that I find indispensable for my work are not (yet) available in the Android market with full function--example, iAnnotate.There will be a point at which the Android Market catches up, but we're not there yet.

Also, if you actually do work on your ipad, get iAnnotate.

I will not get an ipad 3, because unless I break my ipad 2, there's no real reason to. I don't really watch movies on it and mine's perfectly fast enough. I have the wifi version, and when I want internet "on the go," I turn my 4g (android) phone into a hotspot.

Several of the apps that I find indispensable for my work are not (yet) available in the Android market with full function--example, iAnnotate.There will be a point at which the Android Market catches up, but we're not there yet.

Several of the apps that I find indispensable for my work are not (yet) available in the Android market with full function--example, iAnnotate.There will be a point at which the Android Market catches up, but we're not there yet.

Yeah, I've tried a bunch of annotation software, iAnnotate is the best-- just because they exist, doesn't make them as good. Neither of those has the functionality of iAnnotate (though qoppa looks like it might have one function that iAnnotate doesn't). The iAnnotate android app is in development.

I'm not an ipad devotee, and look forward to having multiple viable options, but in my judgment, at this very moment, the software doesn't compare.*

*I say this having an android phone and an ipad-- so I'm regularly looking through both markets and using/comparing apps from both.

I really hate the way Apple has everything locked down. I don't like the way they control the iTunes store, I hate how un-hack-friendly it all is. But that's an ideological position, not a practical one for me, because I'm not actually doing any hacking/re-figuring anyway.

Sure Sign #1 that you don't understand how technology works: Comparing hardware specs on devices that run completely different software packages.

That's cute, it really is. Are you aware that both Apple and Linux are based off Unix and that Android is is Linux based?

Are you also aware that software doesn't really matter as much as you might think it does? Apps on both sides are being made by the same people or at least types of people.

Running the same app on two different operating systems with the same hardware specs will work exactly the same if it's not programmed Apple style. For example; Apple purposely fucks with iTunes on the Windows version to make it appear that Mac computers are better.

I got an ipad 2 from my employer and the first thing I did was download the $5 garageband app. the touchscreen makes it so much fun, you can really get some jams going on there with the keyboard and even a guitar that you can bend notes.. tons of fun.

That's cute, it really is. Are you aware that both Apple and Linux are based off Unix and that Android is is Linux based?

Are you also aware that software doesn't really matter as much as you might think it does? Apps on both sides are being made by the same people or at least types of people.

Wow...NO WAY! This is cutting edge info. Both as based off Unix, so they are both the same. Fantastic analysis. Both use the Dalvik VM, do they (I'll save you the trouble of looking that up since I'm sure you don't know what it is...they don't)? And since the "same types of people" make the software, it should run exactly the same? You sure you want to run with that?

AresOnasis wrote:

Running the same app on two different operating systems with the same hardware specs will work exactly the same if it's not programmed Apple style. For example; Apple purposely fucks with iTunes on the Windows version to make it appear that Mac computers are better.

Umm...no, it won't. I can't even imagine where to start with that one. How does one program something "Apple style"? And your fantasy about iTunes couldn't possibly be more wrong on every level. Apple's master plan is to make shitty software on a pervasive OS in order to make their own hardware look better? What a brilliant strategy!

AresOnasis wrote:

I'm not even going to bother. It's obvious you're a tool.

And you are a great example of "a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing". Seriously. You are obviously far out of your depth here. Look in the mirror.

That's cute, it really is. Are you aware that both Apple and Linux are based off Unix and that Android is is Linux based?

Are you also aware that software doesn't really matter as much as you might think it does? Apps on both sides are being made by the same people or at least types of people.

Wow...NO WAY! This is cutting edge info. Both as based off Unix, so they are both the same. Fantastic analysis. Both use the Dalvik VM, do they (I'll save you the trouble of looking that up since I'm sure you don't know what it is...they don't)? And since the "same types of people" make the software, it should run exactly the same? You sure you want to run with that?

AresOnasis wrote:

Running the same app on two different operating systems with the same hardware specs will work exactly the same if it's not programmed Apple style. For example; Apple purposely fucks with iTunes on the Windows version to make it appear that Mac computers are better.

Umm...no, it won't. I can't even imagine where to start with that one. How does one program something "Apple style"? And your fantasy about iTunes couldn't possibly be more wrong on every level. Apple's master plan is to make shitty software on a pervasive OS in order to make their own hardware look better? What a brilliant strategy!

AresOnasis wrote:

I'm not even going to bother. It's obvious you're a tool.

And you are a great example of "a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing". Seriously. You are obviously far out of your depth here. Look in the mirror.

Prove at least 2 things you have stated and I might take your "expert" opinion to mean more than typical douchebaggery.