Alright. Let me list everything it has in common, that I know of. Toa names, (sort of), toa/matoran designs (sort of) 6 elements, masks. Everything else is so radically different, that its hard to see Brickonicle as a G1 reboot, and more something completely to its own, that just so happens to share some names and designs.

Alright, one major issue I have with G3 as a whole, is the change to the earth region. Some of the other changes make sense, like having the air region be in a mountain setting than in a jungle, and the region of ice being in a tundra rather than the mountains. But one thing I can't accept, is the extremely drastic change with earth, changing it from a cave and underground setting, to a dense forest setting. have very strong characteristics. Generally, characters associated with the element of earth in any piece of fiction, have very strong characteristics. A powerful people who are perfectly content with keeping to their own. Having an earth based people set in an underground cave/mining system is perfect for this. But having the earth setting being dense forest with some shallow and generally surface level burrows, doesn't fit this at all. This puts what are supposed to be the hearty earth people closer to an element of green or nature, which should never happen with an element like this.

I understand your viewpoint on this, but I also can see very many points of view on earth. G1's viewpoint was that earth is underground, so it was secluded, mysterious, dark, and eerie. However, I see earth as above ground, being supportive, kind, soft, gentle, and being there even if you don't notice it. It allows all plants to have life, and without it, we would have no trees or life. With that, I can see earth being a forest, as earth provides for a forest. Since Kanae is not a jungle, this position is not taken, however a secluded, hidden society is in Naho. Therefore, Tiro works as a forest, in my opinion.

MaximusPrimal:

As a whole, Brickonicle feels more complicated and harder to get into and understand, than the original Bionicle, which is really saying something!

The main two ways of spreading information (the show and the sets) are not going to have near as much worldbuilding stuff as in the story bible, but they're there for anyone who wants extra information. (think of Star Wars books like Catalyst and the Aftermath series)

MaximusPrimal:

A reboot is supposed to make changes from the original, but a good reboot makes sure not to stray too far from the source material. The only thing that G3 seems to have in common with G1, is the general island setting, and a handful of names. G2 had more in common with G1 than G3 does. And I'd really like to emphasis, that I'm not saying G3 has to be exactly like G1. Reboots are supposed to make changes, but G3, simply goes too far, and is nearly unrecognizable from the original Bionicle.

I don't know how much I agree with this. On one hand, I'd agree, but on another, I wouldn't. Since G3 is not story wise connected to G1 like Force Awakens is to Return of the Jedi, I cannot use that example for your point. However, movie are kind of like reboots of books. Percy Jackson was completely different than the book, and so it did terrible. However, Jurassic Park I've heard is different from the book, and it is one of my favorite movie series. So I don't really know what to say on this point.

MaximusPrimal:

G2 had more in common with G1 than G3 does.

In terms of story telling strategies, I'd disagree. In the actual story, sure. However, with your logic, I'd say G3 is a reboot of G2 than of G1, or a mixture of both. Besides, I feel they've kept things quite close to the original in terms of character, at least as much as G2 did, but yet again that's an opinion. And then story wise, they are all three so different I don't even want to talk about it.

MaximusPrimal:

In fact, if you where to change just a few character names, and maybe a handful of designs, it would no longer be Bionicle.

So, Miles Morales Spider-Man is not Spider-Man, is what I'm understanding. Maybe G3 is an alternate universe of G1.

MaximusPrimal:

Why not just start your own brand new story?

That's essentially what they did, and because they're using biomechanical life, mask powers (eventually), six elements that are the same as Bionicle, character names that are the same, some characteristics, appearances, and weapons of character the same, some idealogy, Toa, Great Beings, so much is similar to Bionicle, changing the name is pointless.

MaximusPrimal:

In fact, I would much rather prefer to see TTV create their own original story, rather than having this connected to Bionicle, when all they're really keeping is a few character names.

But that wouldn't be popular on their channel... (Besides, gotta keep that Bionicle podcast somewhere, am I right?)

MaximusPrimal:

I'm saying that it isn't Bionicle, and shouldn't try to be connected to Bionicle, and I mean this in the best way possible.

It really isn't connected to Bionicle...

MaximusPrimal:

This.Is not this.

And never was supposed to be. (For one, one's an animated show, and another is a constraction poster, but I get the point)

I guess I'll end my crazy ranting by saying that if TTV wanted to talk about G1, they would have made that Bionicle History show they mentioned a while back. Retelling of a story isn't going to be as popular as telling a new perspective of one.

Okay, let me list what the first 3 years of Bionicle had that makes it unique over things like Ninjago:Concept of a Toa (as a separate entity of normal citizens and as being born with a specific destiny to fulfill, but where not predestined to fulfill). Elemental control (inherent).Use of masksOver complicated plot. The powers come from the nuva symbols?? Wait what?The island they live in is the creator of their world. (plot twist)Biomechanical characters (orignals could rebuild themselves from broken pieces, but this was not seen or explored later)Semi-serious villain with a somewhat believable motivation, and 100% believable means to accomplish it.

What G2 had of G1:Concept of Toa (as a separate entity from Matoran no destiny to fulfil)Masks of power (where they even used like in G1?)Elemental control (thru the mask)Villain with the same name, still somewhat believable motivation, means to achieve its goals also, kind of believable.

What G3 has:Concept of Toa as a separate entity from matoran with a destiny to fulfill)Masks of power (similar to G1, different from G2)Elemental control (inherent).Villain with a somewhat believable motivation and believable means to achieve it.Over complicated plot (can't judge this one so i am following you)

Did I miss something?

Edit: Yes I did, forgot to add, Biomechanical beings (not developed) for G2 and Brickonicle, and the red start reassembling Toa, like a factory would repair robots.

Edit: Just read a section on Bohrok, I am not sure if all that was developed over the years or came in year 2 and 3, but it is a lot. Vu, Xa, Za, Ca, Yo, Ja, Su, Bo, could you have more? Okay nvermind, it all came into one big thing, I do not remember any of that though. No idea they had commander a stuff. Do they even need those? It was a swarm.

I guess it is the lack of some of these in Brickonicle what makes it seem so different?

They are academics, but, as with any society, there are an abundance of jobs, work, hobbies and interests. Their academic focus doesn't take away from the fact that they need to eat, need exports for trade, and that there are both intellectual and grunt work jobs within Tiro. Rather than getting these exports and materials from mining, they get it from farming and agriculture.

@IllustriousVar@Jon I think the eruption of the volcano that you guys mentioned in the recent brainstorm episode could be used as a way to end the civil war (or atleast put a pause for it) if it won't play as much of a role in the third year of Brickonicle.

Like the volcano erupts, and the events causes both the Mangaians and the Ihuens to suffer major losses. Now what happends after could be ither that both sides declares a cease-fire because of this, or some of the major leaders still wish to continue the fight because they don't want to make the losses they have sufferd be in vain, only to be told by ither the Toa (or someone else) to knock it off and realise that there is little point in continuing the conflict after the eruption.

This could actually be used in the third year to show how much in trouble the Matorans will be in when Makuta is back to his full strength, as now the Matorans are in no shape to combat him or what else he might unleash in the third year, or it could lead to the Matorans finally joining forces in helping the Toa, as now each of the big tribes see it as the only way for them all to survive what Makuta has planned.

I guess it is the lack of some of these in Brickonicle what makes it seem so different?

Possibly, but the approach is astly different between the two. If anything, Brickonicle is a G2 reboot with some very slight G1 elements thrown in.

Let's look at it from a G2 format: (Adding G1 in here for clarification)

-Book approach for multimedia purposes, a couple of side games every year or so, sometimes on console or handheld-Biomechanical warriors who clearly aren't designed with a cartoonish aspect in mind-Villain concepts ranging from cows and bugs to clone worms in mech suits-Masks of Power, Kanohi, which gives the user different and sometimes out-of-place abilities-Makuta-Setting itself up in several different directions to begin telling a story from whatever angle and design which could be needed

G2:

-Cartoon approach for multimedia purposes-Flashy, vibrant heroes with designs slightly reckoning to the days of old-New villain concepts with some traits of the older ones-Masks of Power, some very disappointing ones, some from the older years-Makuta-No added-in stuff shining the spotlight on G1 (not very much anyways)

Brickonicle:

-Cartoon approach for multimedia purposes-Flashy, vibrant heroes with designs slightly reckoning to the days of old-Reused villain concepts which try to take a new spin on the characters-Masks of Power, some very disappointing ones, some from the older years-Makuta-Some added-in stuff shining the spotlight on G1 (limited, for now)

All-in-all, it's just a redesigned G2, which I'm okay with - but it's not a G3. It's just Brickonicle.

It is a redesigned G2, yes -- in the sense that both are a reboot of Bionicle.

G3 also has it's own stuff:

-Toa who were once Matoran (we didn't see that until 03 in G1, never in G2)-a cult of villagers who follow Makuta (closest G1 came was Ahkmou, nothing in G2)-A civil war (the Matoran Civil War doesn't count, since we never saw it in the story)-gods and deities (While Mata Nui was mentioned a lot in G1, we never actually saw him until 09. I guess G2 had the creatures, but they weren't very... godlike. They were basically animals)-an island that's frozen (no equivalent in G2 or G1)

Were not flashy and vibrant. They carried some strong colour tones, but they balanced that with an almost gritty feel with the simplistic island vibe. Meanwhile G2 almost went full cartoon on the toys' design alone.

Willess12:

The Kanohi

Like I said, Masks of power, some old, some new, some from the older years. That is the same with G2 and Brickonicle, not G1.

Willess12:

Everything you listed is in the first 3 years of G1.

Except that cartoons were not the standard approach to attracting an audience. And let's face it, they're not making a MNOG.

Willess12:

It is a redesigned G2, yes -- in the sense that both are a reboot of Bionicle.

It's a redesigned G2 in the sense that it's a redesign of G2, in some ways done better.

Willess12:

-Toa who were once Matoran (we didn't see that until 03 in G1, never in G2)

Like I said, drawing some things from G1 (which you gotta do in order to start from the basics) and while the first three years brought in as a surprise, the rest of Bionicle focused on it dramatically.

Willess12:

-a cult of villagers who follow Makuta (closest G1 came was Ahkmou, nothing in G2)

Hum, yet they had shadow Matoran servants. And to be fair, if they had that, they'd need a cult for every Makuta, as every Makuta would want one.

Willess12:

-A civil war (the Matoran Civil War doesn't count, since we never saw it in the story)

We never saw a lot of things in the story, so yes, it counts. Considering how dramatically it affects the story as it goes on, I'd count it as a major event.

Willess12:

-gods and deities (While Mata Nui was mentioned a lot in G1, we never actually saw him until 09. I guess G2 had the creatures, but they weren't very... godlike. They were basically animals)

Makuta was considered a deity for the first three years, which you're focusing on here - a malicious, antagonistic deity, but a deity no less. Clearly on par with Mata Nui in the Matoran legends at the time.

While that's true, I would say that they ended up being the best example of marketing for the line, a lot better than the books, anyhow.

The books were, by and large, a huge barrier for people to get into the story - it was a huge detriment, and eventually, the lack of access alongside the complexity of that story led to Bionicle's cancellation.

LEGO's current strategy is to have their main story told in television shows - that's true for Ninjago, Nexo Knights, Elves, basically all of their new themes. It's true that Bionicle G2 got that treatment, but any new story theme would get it - including our hypothetical Bionicle G3.

I guess I'm a little confused as to what you're saying here. Yes, G3 is, in a sense, what we wished G2 would have been. I don't think anyone is denying that. But I am legitimately confused because we definitely drew from G1 a lot more than we did with G2. Part of our dissatisfaction with G2 was how it was handled and how little content there was to draw from.

From what I can tell, the things we drew from G2 were the names (Ekimu, the Creatures, the Protectors and probably several names), because one of the restrictions we put on ourselves was to only have names previously mentioned in canon (in G1 or G2).

The only other thing we drew from was possibly the forms of the Elemental Gods...but that's it. And honestly, I really wish we could have drawn more from G2, but there wasn't much to work with once it ended? So I just can't see where you're coming from there, because wishing you were right is partially why we did this project to begin with.

While that's true, I would say that they ended up being the best example of marketing for the line, a lot better than the books, anyhow.

Mm, for the first three years. After that things kinda got weird, especially 2006 onwards.

Jon:

The books were, by and large, a huge barrier for people to get into the story - it was a huge detriment, and eventually, the lack of access alongside the complexity of that story led to Bionicle's cancellation.

Among other things... But yes, the complexity of the story help to hinder the flow of the project and help bring the demise that so many people didn't want to occur. But that's how I found my way into the story, by jumping dead center into the timeline with the books. That's probably giving me a skewed perspective when it comes to that.

Jon:

LEGO's current strategy is to have their main story told in television shows - that's true for Ninjago, Nexo Knights, Elves, basically all of their new themes. It's true that Bionicle G2 got that treatment, but any new story theme would get it - including our hypothetical Bionicle G3.

That's true, but even with that, the whole process screams G2. I'll cover more of that on my final point so not to reiterate, but the whole approach to the cartoon aspect is so reminiscent of G2's overall lack of serious character to the story makes it seem like it's a direct pull from one of the many things strung together in G2's convoluted attempt at a story.

Or, maybe all the cartoons are doing that nowadays. To be fair I don't watch television much at all.

Jon:

I guess I'm a little confused as to what you're saying here. Yes, G3 is, in a sense, what we wished G2 would have been. I don't think anyone is denying that. But I am legitimately confused because we definitely drew from G1 a lot more than we did with G2. Part of our dissatisfaction with G2 was how it was handled and how little content there was to draw from.

Oh.

Then I must congratulate you for having effectively created another G2, I guess? I'm not sure what to say here without sounding incredibly stupid or very insulting. That definitely sheds a different light on things.

Jon:

From what I can tell, the things we drew from G2 were the names (Ekimu, the Creatures, the Protectors and probably several names), because one of the restrictions we put on ourselves was to only have names previously mentioned in canon (in G1 or G2).

The overall style of the islands, characters, and some of the settings seems to carry a more G2 feel than a G1 feel - but maybe that's not a bad thing, depending on what the final output of the project is.

Jon:

The only other thing we drew from was possibly the forms of the Elemental Gods...but that's it. And honestly, I really wish we could have drawn more from G2, but there wasn't much to work with once it ended? So I just can't see where you're coming from there, because wishing you were right is partially why we did this project to begin with.

From what you've stated, it appears to me that you and the rest of the TTV Crew that you focused primarily on G1 in order to create the next Bionicle Generation, which in turn has crafted itself into a more masterful version of Generation Two in the overall arching theme and style. In short, it seems that in making G3, you've made G2 2.0. Well, great minds think alike, I guess? or maybe Lego minds?

My suggestion is, although changing the name would be a good community choice (and a horrible marketing one), solidify what this project is trying to become. It's worked from G1 into a better G2, should that be the direction you head in with this? or should it twist itself into more of a G1 in terms of story, aesthetic, and style? or should it do something that hasn't been done before?

In my opinion, it should be what G2 never was capable of - but I'd like to hear that's what you're trying to do instead of guessing that's what it is.

The overall style of the islands, characters, and some of the settings seems to carry a more G2 feel than a G1 feel - but maybe that's not a bad thing, depending on what the final output of the project is.

The character designs do draw a lot of inspiration from G2, that's fair. Can't say the same for the island - if anything, it's the thing the most similar to G1 in our current pitch. Very distinct regions and culture, iconic landscapes, etc. That's one of those things that I wish G2 gave us - I don't really know anything about what the island of Okoto looked like, how life was like on the island, or anything like that.

Ghidora131:

My suggestion is, although changing the name would be a good community choice (and a horrible marketing one), solidify what this project is trying to become. It's worked from G1 into a better G2, should that be the direction you head in with this? or should it twist itself into more of a G1 in terms of story, aesthetic, and style? or should it do something that hasn't been done before?

It's doing all of those - I kind of thought it was clear? None of those things are mutually exclusive. And beyond that, I'm not sure what else it could be. It's another reboot of Bionicle, another "generation" of canon since the last one, hence, "Generation 3".