Truth is like a cliff face that we are all climbing on. Some started before us, and others after us. Some keep climbing, and others stop off on little ledges to take rest; a few starting up little businesses there to feed them.

And some drop off entirely.

I remember quite a few people dropping off during BK morning class.

It seems some people appreciate the simple symmetry of BK knowledge and when they fails, look to the PBKs to resolve the anomalies. They accept those solutions for a while, and then fail too. What happens to them then?

You could say the same too of pilgrimages. I lived on a pilgrimage route for a while. In front of the temples there were invariably a street of little businesses and their houses behind it. People came from 100s of miles seeking whatever they seeked and I always wondered why the business people who lived there did not already have it.

Can people grow from being a BK? Yes, I think they can. Can people grow a little more from being a BK? Yes, I think they can again ... but not that much. Can people grow from leaving the BK world? Yes, very much so. Can people grow outside of the BK world? Of course so. But I think in the BK world most people don't now, they avoid the lesson and become part of the problem.

My question will be, are the PBKs going to be more honest if and when it comes to the absolute failure of the 2012, 2036 or whatever it is date; or are they going to do a BK on us and keep extending the date of Destruction for ever? I suppose you might ask, will they survive the death of Virendra Dev Dixit as well as the BKs survived the death of Lekhraj Kirpalani? I would guess not. Some will go back to the BKs, most will give up ... who will be there to help them?

satyaprakash wrote: To all truth-seeking PBKs.
There is contradiction in the terms used here.
Is there any PBK who is seeking truth? If they seek the truth can they remain as PBK?

Dear satya Bhai.

I was a bk-pbk and i was constantly in search of truth....so i am looking for like-minded BKs-PBKs who are not satisfied with bk or pbk Gyan and who may be looking for answers on the internet...so i address my posts only to those potential 108 shivshaktis who are in search for the yatharth roop of ShivBaba....those who feel that they have found the final truth in the form of bk-Gyan and pbk-Gyan will never understand Maa-Saraswati ka Gyan.

Once they give in writing that they are blind followers, where is the question of seeking truth?
Satya.

I also gave my nischay patra, when i was a naive pbk...but nischay-patra does not prevent me or anyone from analysing new frontiers in spiritual Gyan and progress as the intellect matures...there is a saying in Hindi: "Subah ka bhula agar sham ko ghar aa jaye toh usse bhula nahin kahete." (If you loose your way in the morning, but you find your way and return home in the evening, then you cannot be called lost")

Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I have been associated with Raj Yoga since 1985, and have only quite recently come to learn of the PBKs and this forum, which i find a great place to get deeper insights into all things Gyani, and hear input from many sides. I find this most healthy, stimulating, and informative, and hope this continues for some time to come.

fluffy bunny wrote:My question will be, are the PBKs going to be more honest if and when it comes to the absolute failure of the 2012, 2036 or whatever it is date; or are they going to do a BK on us and keep extending the date of Destruction for ever? I suppose you might ask, will they survive the death of Virendra Dev Dixit as well as the BKs survived the death of Lekhraj Kirpalani? I would guess not. Some will go back to the BKs, most will give up ... who will be there to help them?

For me as a supporter of the AIVV, the "big date" coming up is revelation, not 2012/3 as this is once again about subtle destruction or conflict within the Confluence Age Brahmin world only. If revelation does not to take place in the next few years or so, i would have to question the teachings of the AIVV and BKIVV, as they both point to this. But the very final "cut-off" year for BKs and PBKs is 2036/7, which is not negotiable imo; as it is clearly stated in the Murlis, that the Confluence Age lasts for exactly 100 years; and there is not anywhere to go after this. Also, the death of Virendra Dev Dixit before revelation or 2036/7, would have to be the end of the AIVV... But of course, i don't not expect or believe any of this will occur. But for absolute proof, we shall have to wait and see.

Shooting of the Golden Age between 1947/8 - 1976 = 28 years

Shooting of the Silver Age between 1977 - 1997/8 = 21 years

Shooting of the Copper Age between 1998 - 2012 = 14 years

Shooting of the Iron Age between 2012/13 - 2018/19 = 7 years

You will note that all these dates, 1948 - 1976 - 1998 - 2012 - 2018 are associated with subtle destructions within the Brahmin Yagya...

Roy wrote:For me as a supporter of the AIVV, the "big date" coming up is revelation, not 2012/3 as this is once again about subtle destruction or conflict within the Confluence Age Brahmin world only. If revelation does not to take place in the next few years or so, i would have to question the teachings of the AIVV and BKIVV, as they both point to this.

2036 ...

That is very honest and decent of you.

I might just make it through to 2036 age-wise ... I expect the BKs will try squeeze some extra years out of it. GOd knows, perhaps I am going to be to blame for it and they are going to say Confluence is 100 years from 1950 or whenever their Shiva first appeared ... 2050? I hope I am not still on this forum by then but, if I am still alive, I will come and look for you on January 1st 2037.

In fact, I have already read more "liberal" BKs saying, "It could be 6,250 years and it would not matter to me ...", and so I suspect the BKWSU is already encouraging such ideas and preparing their following for another shift.

Please try and keep them honest, will you? Could all the PBKs club together and buy a great big bit of granite stone, carve into it all the Murli quotes they BKs have removed, and erect it on Mount Abu right outside of the BKs' gates.

End of the shooting of the Copper Age and the entrance of the Yugya into its Iron Age? What does that portend? More corruption and splintering followed by two big subtle wars at the end?

In real world history, AD 632-750 (BK Copper to BK Iron Age) are the times of the Great Islamic Conquests and the election of Gopala, the first independent Buddhist king of Bengal, to end the anarchy which had beset the India of that time.

BTW, do BKs have this same idea of a quasi-literal "shooting eras" of the next Kalpa, or is it just a PBK idea?

Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I have been associated with Raj Yoga since 1985, and have only quite recently come to learn of the PBKs and this forum, which i find a great place to get deeper insights into all things Gyani, and hear input from many sides. I find this most healthy, stimulating, and informative, and hope this continues for some time to come.

I believe in trying to be as honest and open as i can... I am not here to please PBKs or BKs, but to say it as i personally see it. One thing i have learned from being associated with raj Yoga, is that honesty is paramount, believe or it not... If the teachings of Father Shiv in the Confluence Age are the truth(which i believe they are), they will easily stand up to anything i have to say on these matters.

fluffy bunny wrote:I might just make it through to 2036 age-wise ... I expect the BKs will try squeeze some extra years out of it. GOd knows, perhaps I am going to be to blame for it and they are going to say Confluence is 100 years from 1950 or whenever their Shiva first appeared ... 2050? I hope I am not still on this forum by then but, if I am still alive, I will come and look for you on January 1st 2037.

I strongly believe by around 2018/9, we will know absolutely where the truth lies... so i don't think we'll have to wait for as long as 2037.

fluffy bunny wrote:In fact, I have already read more "liberal" BKs saying, "It could be 6,250 years and it would not matter to me ...", and so I suspect the BKWSU is already encouraging such ideas and preparing their following for another shift.

The activities of the BK leadership are probably putting these type of thoughts into their heads, as they are actually doing the shooting of this, by contiuning to build their empire and pretty buildings etc. It doesn't present in a practical form to their devotees or the rest of the world, their belief in a final world destruction, that is just around the corner does it?

“The Father gives you directions. You note them. As regards the books, scriptures, etc. all of them will perish. No old thing will survive. People (BKs) think (or at least imply) that still 40000 years are left for the Iron Age to end. This is why they(the BKs) keep building big houses etc. They keep spending money. Will the ocean spare (it)? It will swallow in one wave itself. Neither did this Bombay exist (in the past), nor will it exist (in future). What all has emerged now within 100 years. Earlier the Viceroy also used to come in a Chariot driven by four horses. Now so many changes have taken place within a short span of time. Heaven is very small... your palaces will be located on the banks of the rivers.” [Mu 07.01.09]

“The Father says – your religion gives you a lot of happiness. The Father alone comes (in the body of Prajapita-Ram, in 1976) and makes you (PBKs) master of heaven. The time for happiness of others (BK Dadis) has come just now, when death is staring at them. These aeroplanes, electricity, etc. did not exist earlier. For them(BKs), it is like heaven now. They build so many big palaces (and purchase many properties). They think that they are very happy now. They reach London so quickly... they think that this is heaven. Well, someone should explain to them that Satyug (the Golden Age) is said to be heaven; Kaliyug (the Iron Age) will not be called heaven. If you leave your body(consciousness) in hell, you will certainly take (spiritual) rebirth in heaven (which commences in the Confluence Age itself - then later your body will also be rejuvenated). Earlier, you (PBKs) did not understand these issues... now you understand.” [Mu 06.02.09]

fluffy bunny wrote:Please try and keep them honest, will you? Could all the PBKs club together and buy a great big bit of granite stone, carve into it all the Murli quotes they BKs have removed, and erect it on Mount Abu right outside of the BKs' gates.

That's not a bad idea! :D

fluffy bunny wrote:End of the shooting of the Copper Age and the entrance of the Yugya into its Iron Age? What does that portend? More corruption and splintering followed by two big subtle wars at the end?

I think you are probably pretty near the mark with your comment fluffy Bhai.

fluffy bunny wrote:
In real world history, AD 632-750 (BK Copper to BK Iron Age) are the times of the Great Islamic Conquests and the election of Gopala, the first independent Buddhist king of Bengal, to end the anarchy which had beset the India of that time.

Very interesting Bhai!

fluffy bunny wrote:BTW, do BKs have this same idea of a quasi-literal "shooting eras" of the next Kalpa, or is it just a PBK idea?

As a BK you have some idea that the activities of Confluence Age have a bearing on the broad drama of 5000 years; but is nowhere near as sophisticated as that which is taught in advance knowledge. But the fundamentals are taught in the Sakar Murlis and Avyakt Vanis...
"The shooting(rehearsal) of the history and geography of the whole world(Broad 5000 year Drama) is taking place(in the unlimited Confluence Age world of Brahmins), just as the shooting(filming) of a drama takes place(in the limited lokik world)." [Mu 17.02.09]

"At this time(during the unlimited Confluence Age), whatever act occurs, shooting(creation of template, for 5000 year broad Drama) takes place. This is called drama which is never created, but exists endlessly. Nothing can be changed in this." [Mu 19.04.78]

"All the souls of the whole world have to play their roles. It is like the shooting(of a film) afresh. But that immortal shooting has been already done. The soul is also like a record in this body. The role of 84 births is recorded in it." [Mu 10.09.76]

"The most subtle aspect is that this unlimited drama continues to be shot second by second (in the Confluence Age). It will then repeat after 5000 years. Whatever happens also happened in the previous cycle. It continues to happen according to the drama. There is nothing to be confused about in this. Whatever happens is nothing new. The drama reel continues to turn second by second. The old continues to be erased while the new is recorded. We continue to play our parts while that continues to be shot. No one else can understand such deep things." [Mu 20.09.12]

"Why is it called the highest age? Because the recording of every type of religion, state, highest resolves, highest relationships, supremacy of highest virtues takes place in souls now, just like a tape recorder. The resolves of rise(Ramraj) and downfall(Ravanraj) of 84 births is recorded in the souls now (during the Confluence Age). The time of recording is going on now. Do you, who are now recording the unlimited record of the whole Kalpa (cycle of 5000 years), pay attention to these things always?" [Av 30.05.73]

"Now is the the time to record the main resolves. Recording of the resolves of every birth is taking place now." [Av 09.05.77]

"The rehearsal(shooting) goes on, till the kingdom(Ramraj-Heaven) is established (in the Golden Age period of the Confluence Age - not until 2036/7)." [Mu 04.02.76]

"The rehearsal(shooting) goes on till you attain the karmateet stage(at the end, just before the Mahabharata war of the outside world commences - final world destruction through the nuclear holocaust, takes place in 2036/7, some years after Ramraj-Heaven is established; i.e. 111, in the Confluence Age itself)." [Mu 22.06.70]

Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: God Father Shiva established the brahmakumaris spiritual university.but I never believe pbk. Veerendradev dixit as Prajapitha, There is no any proof for that matter. Whether Shiv baba teaches secretly through this person then I do not like knowledge or God.

atma wrote:Would it not be correct to assume that PBK's believe more in the role of mother and Father then certain BK's? Which would be safe to assume it is more along the family path of mother and Father?

Hence the difference in P=Prajapita (Father) B=Brahma (Big Mother) K=Kumaris. (The best of my knowledge this is the own knowledge of Veerendra dev dixit)

Do BKs not know nirakar ShivBap...do PBKs not know nirakar ShivBap...does the outside world not know that God is incorporeal light form !!(as shown in the picture of basic knowledge "Father of all souls")

If you ask the PBKs you know what will the answer be. I think they know, but this is disputable.

It is said highest on high Father. Now some say - this is the highest on high Father, others say - that is the highest on high Father, there are many opinions, there are many fathers now. If you ask people they will give many different names, show many different forms and tell about many different timings, places and roles of various smaller and bigger fathers. It is still not clear to everyone, everyone has not accepted one and the same highest on high Father.

sita wrote:If you ask the PBKs you know what will the answer be. I think they know, but this is disputable.

It is said highest on high Father. Now some say - this is the highest on high Father, others say - that is the highest on high Father, there are many opinions, there are many fathers now. If you ask people they will give many different names, show many different forms and tell about many different timings, places and roles of various smaller and bigger fathers. It is still not clear to everyone, everyone has not accepted one and the same highest on high Father.

Who is the highest of the high Father?...If the highest Father is not known to everyone, then is everybody nastik in Sangamyug ???