The math doesn't seem to add up, $2100 body is perform better than $3500 in high ISO with same sensor.

It's not the same sensor. Canon's web site describes it as a new design.

What's a "new design"? Sony technology?[/quote

Could be... hehehe! or the one they incorporated with the super high MP camera they'll be releasing next year. Maybe, they made 6D as their "trial" ground. We'll be able to verify it only on December so stay tuned...

As for a cheaper camera outperforming a more expensive camera in terms of IQ, this will not be the first time Canon will be doing it if 6D outperforms 5D3 in terms of IQ. Even Nikon is capable of doing that. After all, it's not all about IQ. Right? Determining what makes one camera better than another camera body depends on a lot of factors (e.g., AF, build quality, etc...). 5D3 may be outperformed a little bit in the IQ department but it is still a lot better camera than 6D.

I'm not aware this, but can you tell me in the past, which lower price Canon camera(s) performs better than expensive camera(s)?

I'm not aware this, but can you tell me in the past, which lower price Canon camera(s) performs better than expensive camera(s)?

5D2. It's a lot, lot cheaper than 1DS3 but it delivered arguably a little bit better or at least on par IQ with 1DS3. You may argue that 1D4 sensor size is smaller but based on price point and IQ, 5D2 outperformed it. Take note that I'm not talking of what's better camera overall but only based on IQ and price.

I'm not aware this, but can you tell me in the past, which lower price Canon camera(s) performs better than expensive camera(s)?

5D2. It's a lot, lot cheaper than 1DS3 but it delivered a little bit better or at least on par IQ with 1DS3. You may argue that 1D4 sensor size is smaller but based on price point and IQ, 5D2 outperformed it. Take note that I'm not talking of what's better camera overall but only based on IQ and price.

I have never own 1D series - so, no comment on IQ btw 5D II and 1D series.

When you said little better, it's 8/10 better? Did you do the test comparsion yourself?

I looked at some of their leaf photos around 3200 and 6400 - amazing detail, although not at the full res, but definitely enough to make me blink.

I am tamping down my expectations, though, for a 7D successor simply because of the APS-C size sensor. But this is certainly encouraging that things might get even better for that camera. Better autofocus capabilities yet - including f/8 - will be the main draw, though.

Better autofocus capabilities yet - including f/8 - will be the main draw, though.

Until now the Kenko dgx extenders talk every camera into af'ing @f8 - I'd be surprised if the 6d was an exception, even if Canon surely won't support f8-af officially to make a point for the 5d3/1dx.

And don't forget: One drawback of high iso on the current sensors is reduced dynamic range, so you have less tolerance for exposure errors, recovering highlights or raising shadow - some less iso noise doesn't help here.

I'm not aware this, but can you tell me in the past, which lower price Canon camera(s) performs better than expensive camera(s)?

5D2. It's a lot, lot cheaper than 1DS3 but it delivered a little bit better or at least on par IQ with 1DS3. You may argue that 1D4 sensor size is smaller but based on price point and IQ, 5D2 outperformed it. Take note that I'm not talking of what's better camera overall but only based on IQ and price.

I have never own 1D series - so, no comment on IQ btw 5D II and 1D series.

When you said little better, it's 8/10 better? Did you do the test comparsion yourself?

I have used both albeit not much since I just borrowed them from my friends. I also don't have the technical expertise to pixel-peep both. Instead, I trust DPR and DXO because they were able to test the sensors. If you ask me why, then I could also ask you the same question why do you doubt them especially since we're comparing cameras from the same brand.

It's not the same sensor. Canon's web site describes it as a new design.

Of course it's not the same - it's 20 MP, not 22 MP. But if it uses the same production technologies found in the 5DIII and 5DII, the IQ should only be marginally different, if at all.

Hello Neuro!

I was holding the 6D in my hands and asking the Canon-representative here in Sweden about the sensor and especially the low-light-capacity and he (K. Mörk, Svenska Canon Sweden) told me that this sensor is NOT the same as used in 5DMK3 but it is totally NEW and that he was thinking that 6D sensor will be performing a bit and slightly better than even the 5DMK3 but this said in the low-light-situations when using high ISO. This is from our conversation from 31st October 2012 - that is my two cents in this thread)Have a good day!C

« Last Edit: November 21, 2012, 04:33:22 AM by ZoeEnPhos »

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Truly the light is sweet, and a pleasant thing it is for the eyes to behold the sun!

that this sensor is NOT the same as used in 5DMK3 but it is totally NEW and that he was thinking that 6D sensor will be performing a bit and slightly better than even the 5DMK3 but this said in the low-light-situations when using high ISO.

They developed a "totally new" sensor that manages to show " slightly better" performance?! And ony in extreme conditions (high iso @low light) and with some loss of resolution? Great work, Canon :-p

Please note: newer is not always better, and overall it sounds as if Canon is mighty proud to have reduced costs while keeping the sensor performance on 5d3 level - after all they'll want a higher profit margin even after stuffing in wifi and gps with the 6d over the current 5d2 price.

I'm not aware this, but can you tell me in the past, which lower price Canon camera(s) performs better than expensive camera(s)?

5D2. It's a lot, lot cheaper than 1DS3 but it delivered a little bit better or at least on par IQ with 1DS3. You may argue that 1D4 sensor size is smaller but based on price point and IQ, 5D2 outperformed it. Take note that I'm not talking of what's better camera overall but only based on IQ and price.

I have never own 1D series - so, no comment on IQ btw 5D II and 1D series.

When you said little better, it's 8/10 better? Did you do the test comparsion yourself?

I have used both albeit not much since I just borrowed them from my friends. I also don't have the technical expertise to pixel-peep both. Instead, I trust DPR and DXO because they were able to test the sensors. If you ask me why, then I could also ask you the same question why do you doubt them especially since we're comparing cameras from the same brand.

I'm not aware this, but can you tell me in the past, which lower price Canon camera(s) performs better than expensive camera(s)?

5D2. It's a lot, lot cheaper than 1DS3 but it delivered a little bit better or at least on par IQ with 1DS3. You may argue that 1D4 sensor size is smaller but based on price point and IQ, 5D2 outperformed it. Take note that I'm not talking of what's better camera overall but only based on IQ and price.

I have never own 1D series - so, no comment on IQ btw 5D II and 1D series.

When you said little better, it's 8/10 better? Did you do the test comparsion yourself?

I have used both albeit not much since I just borrowed them from my friends. I also don't have the technical expertise to pixel-peep both. Instead, I trust DPR and DXO because they were able to test the sensors. If you ask me why, then I could also ask you the same question why do you doubt them especially since we're comparing cameras from the same brand.

Thanks for sharing, great info. But then again...if I had trusted DXO, I would be shooting with Nikon gear.

I simply DO NOT buy my camera gear based on DPreview nor DXO. My purchases are based on manufature spec and hand on it. Keep it or not, the result speaks for itself.

I agree with you that personal experience is still the best but as not everybody has the necessary tools or equipments to test all the sensors of the cameras they want to compare, we are forced to rely on DXO, DPreview and other technical review sites.

And no, even if you trusted DXO, you'll not be shooting Nikon gear because DXO is only evaluating the camera sensors and not the whole camera specs. IQ is only a part of what makes a camera better than another one. I still believe Canon makes better overall camera body in my opinion. I thought I made it clear to you already. I'll repeat. 5D2 is only as good or a little bit better than 1DS3 in terms of IQ. Same thing that might happen with 5D3 and 6D even if 1DS3 and 5D3 are marginally better cameras than the latter especially if you put their specs side-by-side. Price-wise, of course 5D2 and 6D beat their counterparts. I said this because for some people, IQ and price come first when determining what camera they would buy.

PS. To discount or ignore such reviews isn't wise. It's always prudent to do your research before buying unless you are rich enough to afford only the best regardless of price.

As ever it's the RAW's we need to see but I do like the flower (3200) and the bike (12800) although wrong lens choice for the flower shot I'd have thought but anyway not seeing any nasty colour blotches starting in the dark areas at 12800 very usable, wish they had done that one at 25600 though.

I'm also jumping from a Ti1 but I'm still withholding my decision. I'm deciding on 5D2/6D + lens or 5D3 body. I'm not expecting much on AF. I just want the center point to focus properly even in low-light. The main deciding factor will be low-light performance and DR for me. I'll try to wait at least till March... hopefully...

As ever it's the RAW's we need to see but I do like the flower (3200) and the bike (12800) although wrong lens choice for the flower shot I'd have thought but anyway not seeing any nasty colour blotches starting in the dark areas at 12800 very usable, wish they had done that one at 25600 though.