I am truly sorry for the suffering and death of your friends. It is a terrible and tragic trauma to bear.I am not under the illusion that this problem does not have dire consequences. In fact just the opposite is true. It causes destruction to the sufferer and pain and anguish to friends and family alike.

I know this first hand.I was married to a porn addict.I suffered terrible Sxual abuse during the 18mths I was married.My ex husband would watch pornographic films which were full of violence and humiliation, after which he would return home and act out what he had seen.

I was the pawn in this horrible [crime] situation.Would you tell me then that his was a mere addiction? Dont you think he ought to bear some responsibilty?

I am not here to blame, I just want to understand why people feel a lack of responsibilty. Or why this problem is so misunderstood and why it is allowed to be swept under the rug, as though it is quite harmless?

Debbi, I don't know where you got the idea that by calling it an addiction, we are sweeping it under the rug. Addiction just means you would like to stop but can't. He may have done horrible things and there is no excuse. He needs to deal with his addiction properly and figure out why he needs that "out" so badly. This addiction stays with a person for the rest of their life. There comes a time with a lot of hard work and giving yourself over to the SA group that it will be under control. The minute an addict starts telling himself that he is healed and doesn't need the program, that is when they end up like my friends. We didn't ask Hashem to give us this addiction. Hashem gave it to us for a reason and I believe it was to get closer to him. I pray to Hashem 20 times a day to get me out of different situations that I find myself in. He is a power greater then all of us and he is the only one that can take it away. We just need to believe that he is always here for us no matter what we may do.

To Debi and all those wishing to understand the nature of this addiction,

I too struggled with trying to make sense of a human being who "met his needs" through hurting someone else. I found the book "Don't Call It Love" to be very informative on this subject of s-- addiction. Yes, that is what it is; a sad, dangerous, destructive, all-consuming addiction.

I fing it very heartening that this subject is getting much needed exposure, as I view this awareness as the first much needed step in helping to heal from these afflictions.

I didn't mean that you or anyone of the people expressing themselves on this forum are sweeping it under the rug.Obviously you are not, since you are reaching out here.Its the others. Those who do not seek the help and support as all of you are. Its those Rabbonim, and Shadchonim who will look the other way, and ignore troubling signs on a prospective Shidduch.

Those are the people I point my finger at.The ones who are in a position to help the sufferer and consequently avoid the abuse which I and countless others have suffered and still suffer today.

Thanks Gad for your definition. It certainly clarifies things.Perhaps because I have suffered so very much at the hands of this addiction, I feel that the word "addiction" seems too tame. But the truth is, an addiction is what it is, no matter what kind.

You are right! One of the biggest problems with any addiction is the ability to use it as an excuse. I do such and such because I am an addict. Whoever hides behind their addiction is heading for a downward spiral. It is those who can admit that they have the addiction and want to stop but cannot and WORK on themselves and come to any means to stop what they are doing.

Firstly, I truly hope that anyone who is exposed to the hurt, pain, and destructiveness of addiction is reading this thread...this dialogue goes to the very core of understanding addiction in general, and not just s.. addiction.

Many people, both addicts and significant loved ones of addicts, struggle with the label of "addict". Debbi is right - there are definitely people who will attempt to hide behind the "addiction is a disease" idea as a way of absolving themselves of responsibility. However, for most people who are in recovery, the term "addict in recovery" is a very powerful means of reinforcing and empowering his/her efforts in the recovery process. The development of addiction is a very real phenomenon that has almost no exact parallel in the medical field. I guess a similar parallel might be to a person who is (probably unknowingly) predisposed to Diabetes, and through years of unhealthy eating habits and lack of physical exercise, develops Diabetes. Addiction is defined as a behavior or series of behaviors that a person must "feed" to themselves for a period of time in which a "dependency" develops - to the point where despite suffering negative consequences as a direct result of these behaviors, persists in them. It is truly difficult and painful for the family and loved ones who suffer from addiction to grapple with these issues in an effort to understand and heal.

Lastly, an additional IMPORTANT point to mention: if an addict comes home to his wife and behaves abusively, in and/or out of the bedroom, he is an ABUSER and an addict. Addiction in and of itself does not = abusiveness. There is definitely a corrolation between the two, but one does NOT cause the other. I have treated MANY addicts, some abusive, and some the furthest from it. May we never (again, for some of us,) know the personal pain and anguish caused by addiction.

I often tend to forget the last point which you made (why?). A s-- addict is not the same as a s-- offender (predator). I am aware that the treatment is different and that many of the thought processes may be different.

I believe that this forgetfulness may be part of the logic which I try to use to explain it all to myself.

I have this addiction, and I can see how helpful a support group would be to me. I truly feel trapped by it. I never thought of it as an addiction -- I always refered to it as my yetzer hara. It feels like the beginning of liberation to call it an addiction.

Are these support groups composed of frum people? I can't help thinking that I'd be too embarassed to come to one of these groups and possibly see people that I know. Also, how do the groups keep people from getting "worked up" when hearing about what other people do? And how do they prevent people from picking up new addictions (or dimensions to existing ones) from hearing what other people do?

I really appreciate your honesty and forthrightness. It makes me feel not so alone. I hope you are doing better.

You asked some great questions. I commend you for what seems to be serious contemplation about "doing something" real about a problem you think you have. I'd like to make several recommendations. Try to see a frum addictions therapist. He/She would help you navigate the recovery issues you are raising more easily.There are several non-"official" 12 Step meetings for frum people with these issues. The best way to be connected to them would be to begin attending SA (S..aholics Anonymous) meetings in the frum-populated NY area...you will be with other frum people, as well as non-frum and non-Jewish. All you need to do is ask people, before and after the meeting, for contact information about support groups, meetings, and individuals that can help you with your recovery.It is VERY normal that in the beginning stages of recovery a person can get "worked up" by hearing other people's stories. This is why it is so important to not only go to meetings, but to ask for a sponsor as soon as possible, and also work with a therapist, if feasible. They will help you understand your reactions, and help you develop the tools you need to "work your program". Hatzlacha.

There is an excellent book called 7Tools to Beat Addiction by Stanton Peele. He documents that it is possible to stop addictions without 'support groups' (although he doesn't knock them--they can be helpful). He focuses on motivation and values.

Stanton Peele was my professor and I know him well. He also has a very informative website. He does at times knock 12-Step programming, so take what you need from his writings - he does have a lot of important ideas to offer.

As far as beating the addiction without the SA support groups, forget about it. I am talking from experience. There is no way to kick this addiction other than joining SA. Trust me, I have tried everything. As far as being afraid of who you will meet at these meetings and possibly seeing someone you know, that is actually the best feeling in the world. To see someone that you know that has the same problems as you and wants to work at them. Anyone that is in those rooms is on the same team. We all know what we have and all want to work on it. I guarantee that your secret will be safe with anyone you meet. I am looking for a meeting in your area that might work for you. If you are ever in the New York area please give me a shout and I will be glad to take you to one of mine.

Thanks for your insight, reassurance, and support. You are strengthening my existing conviction that a support group is a "must" for me.

I suspect that there are often other issues underlying this addition -- I know there are with me. Do the groups or the 12-step process or both provide an opportunity for addressing these other issues? It's very hard to imagine myself being successful if I attempt to work on this addiction as if in a void.

While waiting for the experts to get back to you, I would offer the following in the spirit of finding humor in sorrows (a Jewish tradition) to try to cheer you up a bit. Also, there is a bit of good advice in it, though not always applicable to everyone.

Someone calls up his Rabbi frantically and says: "I'm alone in my office with two secretaries. What should I do?"The Rabbi answers: "In the meantime, don't do anything."

Seriously though, I hope you are able to solve everything in the best way. And as it says "Teshua brov yoeitz" (alot of advice helps), I'm sure that the advice of the experts on this site will be helpful.

I have been waiting and watching for someone to find the courage, the strength and the clarity to respond to your post. I have none of the above, but I feel you deserve a response nonetheless.

I can only imagine that you have been checking this message board regularly after opening yoursefl up like that, "confessing", and searching.

Well, first of all, cudos to you for recognizing that you may have a problem which needs to be addressed. There are definitely others out there with your experiences, as there are programs which specialize in these types of things (whether its an addiction program or perhaps an offender program - you mentioned something in this regard-?).

You need to search out an individual or a program that understands and specializes in your specific issues. You seem to realize that this is a problem, so if in your search for the right help you are not taken seriously as to your concerns or problems, move on. It can take time to find the right person or program. Good for you for beginning the process!

This is a serious matter, but there is hope ahead! With recognition, a strong ratzon and help from professionals you have a good chance of being freed from your thoughts, pulls, desires, confusions or whatever it is.

I'm sorry that I don't have any specific information to provide for you. Perhaps there are others out there that know of more specific info on help for you.

Please continue to post, and let us know how you are doing.Hatzlachah Rabbah in this endeavor.

Are you there? Are your questions intended to feel out your audience or are you seriously looking for help, or perhaps both? Can you let us know how you are doing and if you have made any headway in your search?

I have many questions which I would like to ask you, I am seriously interested in your answers. This topic is of great interest to me and I would like to understand more. Are you still on the board?

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