I think this is awfully sad because AGD had the potential to be the Beach Boys equivalent of Mark Lewisohn: the group's biographer and chronicler. I have gradually felt over these 20 years, going back to when I started to follow BB news on the web around 1997, that AGD was perhaps not able or willing to just share the joy of being a fan*, that he had to be the smart alec, and that he was envious of David Leaf and Melinda for having Brian's confidences.

Then there's the PM (see page 27 of the thread) where he says he's almost 60 and feels like he hasn't achieved anything: behind the arrogance I think there is a feeling of not having utilized his talents in the correct way.

OTOH I have to believe that everyone can be redeemed and, maybe, just maybe, Andrew can still turn himself into a fan rather than someone whose ego gets in the way of promoting the love that I'm sure he has for Brian and the band.

*Confession: I feel I can say this because I used to have the same flaws when I posted on the Cabinessence board in the years around 9/11 (1998-2002ish). I was a prick in many threads. Then I saw Brian live for the first time and, ever since, I have just wanted to share in the joy of how this genius has been able to have a rebirth in the second half of his life. I wouldn't want to ever castigate Leaf or Melinda because I know they are a big part of making that joy possible (Pet Sounds live, BWPS, Smile live, etc). I also met Leaf at a BBB covention around 1998 (the same one attended by Billy Hinsche) and I thought he was great. He autographed by Pet Sounds session booklet.

Jon I remember you from those days...never thought you were a prick at all!

I had a couple of meltdowns, tended to go 15 rounds with Mikie and Bungalow Bill (who is presumably delighted with the new POTUS). Not a good memory. OTOH I learned a huge amount from Textus (Steve) and Susan L, and I miss those threads.

I think this is awfully sad because AGD had the potential to be the Beach Boys equivalent of Mark Lewisohn: the group's biographer and chronicler. I have gradually felt over these 20 years, going back to when I started to follow BB news on the web around 1997, that AGD was perhaps not able or willing to just share the joy of being a fan*, that he had to be the smart alec, and that he was envious of David Leaf and Melinda for having Brian's confidences.

Then there's the PM (see page 27 of the thread) where he says he's almost 60 and feels like he hasn't achieved anything: behind the arrogance I think there is a feeling of not having utilized his talents in the correct way.

OTOH I have to believe that everyone can be redeemed and, maybe, just maybe, Andrew can still turn himself into a fan rather than someone whose ego gets in the way of promoting the love that I'm sure he has for Brian and the band.

*Confession: I feel I can say this because I used to have the same flaws when I posted on the Cabinessence board in the years around 9/11 (1998-2002ish). I was a prick in many threads. Then I saw Brian live for the first time and, ever since, I have just wanted to share in the joy of how this genius has been able to have a rebirth in the second half of his life. I wouldn't want to ever castigate Leaf or Melinda because I know they are a big part of making that joy possible (Pet Sounds live, BWPS, Smile live, etc). I also met Leaf at a BBB covention around 1998 (the same one attended by Billy Hinsche) and I thought he was great. He autographed by Pet Sounds session booklet.

I really like this post. This thread, and the whole AGD thing, makes me sad, not angry. AGD has done a lot of work and did, does have so much potential. But his flaws get in the way, as so many people's do. I understand people have been hurt by him, but the ongoing trashing of him is inhumane as well. I admire your clarity on the mission of a Beach Boys/Brian Wilson fan.

I can't help but find it anything other than deeply amusing that the poster doing the lion's share of the stirring is someone who recently flounced off in hugely public manner, vowing never to return. Epic fail.

I can't help but find it anything other than deeply amusing that the poster doing the lion's share of the stirring is someone who recently flounced off in hugely public manner, vowing never to return. Epic fail.

After this post I am signing out of Smiley Smile and Iím never logging back in again. Nor will I read the responses to this post (if any responses are made).

I believe that, in the light of current events on the main forum, the only possible comment is...

"Liar, liar, pants on fire !".

Iffn you're gonna flounce, best stay flounced.

These are some class examples are what happens when you tell the truth then get publicly mocked for it. I told the truth about what I knew, left because nothing was being done about it, was lied about on this forum, came back to defend myself (or as some self-admiring windbags would call it, "flouncing"). Since then the truth has come out and, no, I'm not feeling pretty silly right now...

Billy has since (and up to not too long ago) gone through public humiliation multiple times directly from this guy (solely because Billy told the truth). So yeah, if people are "trashing" him (ie merely exposing the truth about his tactics or defending themselves from public attack) they have every right to do so.

I wouldn't want to ever castigate Leaf or Melinda because I know they are a big part of making that joy possible (Pet Sounds live, BWPS, Smile live, etc).

No one in their right mind would castigate Melinda. But then we live in a world where Brian Wilson's current drug regimen, past drug use, current living situation, current voice, current songs are under scrutiny from people who constantly preach positivity. So I guess anything is possible.

The lies are continuing. People are still being attacked personally and lies being used to do so to who knows how many people either naive or tuned-out enough to believe it. Some behaviors which were tearing this board apart and causing good people to leave have apparently resumed on another forum, even though Billy and I as mods here got blamed for ruining this forum once it must have been determined we were not into toe'ing any lines or inventing rules to enforce to appease certain factions and interests.

What is ironic, if anything, is how certain people sat silently and watched as people here got trashed publicly and privately, how lies were told and supported in spite of the truth being made readily available for all to read, and now after all the bullying and PM nonsense and meltdowns and bans and the whole lot, the burden falls on those whose names and reputations were dragged through the mud to not say anything? That's not irony, that's foolishness.

Maybe if peacekeeping and resolution is the goal, demand an apology or an acknowledgement of wrongdoing from those who actively sought to disrupt and cause chaos on this board and actively tried to ruin people by lying and slandering once the efforts failed to "change things" with notions like electing mods and requesting home addresses of board members for interested parties.

Logged

ďSome people think you have to knock somebody down in order to build yourself up, I donít look at it that way. To the mentality that likes to disparage other people, I say perhaps you should get a life. Itís just wrong thinking in my opinion and I donít mind saying that.Ē - Mike Love

"Every single person who criticized Brian for having She & Him, Kacey Musgraves, Sebu and Nate Ruess guesting on his solo album can now officially go heartily f*** themselves." - Wirestone

"I will never change with what I think happened in here and you will never convince me otherwise." - Dr. Beach Boy.

I think this is awfully sad because AGD had the potential to be the Beach Boys equivalent of Mark Lewisohn: the group's biographer and chronicler. I have gradually felt over these 20 years, going back to when I started to follow BB news on the web around 1997, that AGD was perhaps not able or willing to just share the joy of being a fan*, that he had to be the smart alec, and that he was envious of David Leaf and Melinda for having Brian's confidences.

Then there's the PM (see page 27 of the thread) where he says he's almost 60 and feels like he hasn't achieved anything: behind the arrogance I think there is a feeling of not having utilized his talents in the correct way.

OTOH I have to believe that everyone can be redeemed and, maybe, just maybe, Andrew can still turn himself into a fan rather than someone whose ego gets in the way of promoting the love that I'm sure he has for Brian and the band.

*Confession: I feel I can say this because I used to have the same flaws when I posted on the Cabinessence board in the years around 9/11 (1998-2002ish). I was a prick in many threads. Then I saw Brian live for the first time and, ever since, I have just wanted to share in the joy of how this genius has been able to have a rebirth in the second half of his life. I wouldn't want to ever castigate Leaf or Melinda because I know they are a big part of making that joy possible (Pet Sounds live, BWPS, Smile live, etc). I also met Leaf at a BBB covention around 1998 (the same one attended by Billy Hinsche) and I thought he was great. He autographed by Pet Sounds session booklet.

Jon I remember you from those days...never thought you were a prick at all!

Same goes for me too, Jon. I always thought of you as a voice of reason (along with Steve Webb and Susan) going against BBill.

How long will it take to repair the damage caused by the lies and the liars, not to mention their supporters and people naive enough to believe and defend this crap? When that happens, it will be locked. Until then, how do those who got trashed and are still being trashed challenge any of it?

We didn't cause this.

Logged

ďSome people think you have to knock somebody down in order to build yourself up, I donít look at it that way. To the mentality that likes to disparage other people, I say perhaps you should get a life. Itís just wrong thinking in my opinion and I donít mind saying that.Ē - Mike Love

"Every single person who criticized Brian for having She & Him, Kacey Musgraves, Sebu and Nate Ruess guesting on his solo album can now officially go heartily f*** themselves." - Wirestone

"I will never change with what I think happened in here and you will never convince me otherwise." - Dr. Beach Boy.

How long will it take to repair the damage caused by the lies and the liars, not to mention their supporters and people naive enough to believe and defend this crap? When that happens, it will be locked. Until then, how do those who got trashed and are still being trashed challenge any of it?

Thanks for the replies above. I know we are going round and round so I will leave it with my comment that I do think AGD is redeemable and has enough positive qualities to overcome his negatives, but he needs to start pretty soon, with a full mea culpa.

FWIW & I expect & deserve no credence to anything I ever opine, I used to only visit the website to view the views & opinions of HimSelf, I later became to view his posts as equal parts revelatory and as a put down. Had no idea about the PMs and other accusations of abuse. His public input is largely a miss to this website, however, the other accusations of wrongdoing seem horribly genuine and tragically sad & nothing rightly should be tolerated in this regard. Well done the mods who took this difficult decision.Props to those who took what cannot have been an easy decision to block him. I still & will forever miss you AGD, silly sod.

How long will it take to repair the damage caused by the lies and the liars, not to mention their supporters and people naive enough to believe and defend this crap? When that happens, it will be locked. Until then, how do those who got trashed and are still being trashed challenge any of it?

We didn't cause this.

I'm with you.

Perhaps neither of you caused this, but you perpetuate it on a daily basis. AGD is gone from Smiley Smile, presumably forever. Everyone understands something funky went down. Specifics remain murky and I for one am fine not knowing. The way forward would be to let it go, but the mods here continue to savor the whole affair. Why? Because you enjoy it. Billy's current moniker makes that very clear.

Not that I "enjoy" it, but I am extremely angry about the whole thing. Rather than let the anger consume me, I make light of it. Once I found out he was implying something untoward on why I was homeless to others, I saw the pattern and the gloves came off. So yeah, I have no love at all for that Quaker Oats Guy-looking motherfucking charlatan .

Not that I "enjoy" it, but I am extremely angry about the whole thing. Rather than let the anger consume me, I make light of it. Once I found out he was implying something untoward on why I was homeless to others, I saw the pattern and the gloves came off. So yeah, I have no love at all for that Quaker Oats Guy-looking motherfucking charlatan .

edit

that said, yeah, I probably should let it go.

Well, I shouldn't tell you how to feel about it. I get that both sides feel angry and betrayed. This is my last comment on the issue.