helparcfun wrote:Do you think that Wat Dhammakaya will endure? Judging by the amount of people (and money) involved it doesn't look to me like it's going away!

It looks very much as though they would like to 'take over' Thailand, if not the whole world, religiously speaking (and who knows, maybe politically too).

Everything that arises, passes away ... That's particularly true of religious groups which come from nowhere and centre on individual leaders. Look at (for instance) Transcendental Meditation, the Moonies (Unification Church), Hare Krishna and Heaven's Gate - very different from each other but sharing a boom-and-bust trajectory.

helparcfun wrote:Do you think that Wat Dhammakaya will endure? Judging by the amount of people (and money) involved it doesn't look to me like it's going away!

It looks very much as though they would like to 'take over' Thailand, if not the whole world, religiously speaking (and who knows, maybe politically too).

Everything that arises, passes away ... That's particularly true of religious groups which come from nowhere and centre on individual leaders. Look at (for instance) Transcendental Meditation, the Moonies (Unification Church), Hare Krishna and Heaven's Gate - very different from each other but sharing a boom-and-bust trajectory.

I agree, but Dk is advancing quite successfully. They are making inroads in Malaysia. Besides having 2 centers now in major cities, it has also manage to recruit (by means of effective "undue influence") a group of Chinese students in a medical university. The students' situation and cultural background make them vulnerable to cult methods, and their position as doctors when they graduate will be used for further advancement.

To curb their advancement is not as easy as telling people it's a cult. Usually, the recruiter will even try to conceal that they are from Dk. I think a more effective approach is to educate people about cult methods in general. Then people would be more immune to not just Dk, but all other cults too.

helparcfun wrote:Some time later I discovered by accident that my wife had been donating money to the temple. Okay nothing unusual about that you may say but what I discovered was that she had been donating large sums of money (hundreds mostly and sometimes thousands of pounds). I was a little shocked to say the least at the time. She tried to placate me by telling me it was for our future together. I assume she meant that by doing this 'so called' good deed she would in return get rewards later, or in the next life etc etc.

I've been informed that relatives of Dk followers in Thailand report the same situation.

The reasons for posting this are firstly to find out if there are many other like-minded people out there concerning DMC (and religion generally) and if anyone has any helpful advice on how I might persuade my wife that she should forget about DMC.

As you've probably notice, trying to reason with her even with reliable evidence, is not working. She herself needs to see that she's been conned. A good way is for her to read about mind control techniques,.

tiltbillings wrote:Look at the imagery of the massive regimented ceremony. That has nothing to do with the Dhamma, but it has everything to do with the aggrandizement of Dhammakaya organization, and where would you find anything comparable in imagery to those photos?

I must first say that I can't verify the following matters that I've been informed about, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if it's true. To hold ceremonies of such grandeur,1. For every temporary monk you recruit, you'd get 500Bt. (A nice little sum for a villager.)2. Loads of villages are brought in by buses to be dressed and made to stand/sit there, enduring the heat. (Not sure about any payment.)

SeerObserver wrote:Wat Paknam is on "good terms" with the Dhammakaya movement. As a matter of fact the preceptor of Phrarajbhavanavisudh, the abbot of Wat Phra Dhammakaya, is the current abbot of Wat Paknam.

Update: I'm told that there's an internal split into 3 groups now: the LP Sodh group, the Dhammachayo group and the Khoon Yai group. It's a matter of time.

jcsuperstar wrote:i have a thai friend who studied w/ lp paknam (sod?) and he says that the dhammakaya meditation taught is not the same as what lp paknam taught..seems to be similar though

jcsuperstar, you have a friend who actually studied with LP Sodh of Wat Paknam? It would be interesting if you could post some information as to the differences between his teachings and those of Dhammakaya. robertk, you say it's the same meditation though. Have you learned from LP Sodh himself or from a different offshoot of his teachings than Dhammakaya?

Perhaps I can help here. Although I've not learnt from him personally, I've read an English version of his book more than 10 years ago. I vividly recall that one should arrive at a mental image of a human being, which later changes to a deva. This description is accompanied by illustrations of the images, which gets increasingly elaborate as the mental image "progresses" to forms of higher realms. When I saw that even brahma image is illustrated with distinct forms, I began to wonder. What I saw that even beings of the formless realms could be drawn....

But I've not come to the really interesting part yet. After that, the images suppose to turn to that of a crystalline Buddha. (I'm skipping the details here.) My memory about it is a little bit fuzzy, but I can clearly recall this: When the nimitta grows to 10 metres wide, you've become a sotapanna!

Now, don't ask me how to measure the diameter of a mental image. Anyway, when it grows further to 20 metres, guess what that means?

Its been a while since I've posted on here and as Kumara recently wrote a few posts I thought I'd post this as a kind of answer to my own question about whether or not DMC will endure. So after reading through this I have come to the definite conclusion that DMC is here to stay. Meanwhile, my issues with my wife following this group will continue until who knows when??

Wat Phra Dhammakāya is an established international organization—a spiritual empire that grew out of the charismatic leadership of Phra Phromayanthera or Phra Chaiboon Dhammajayo which vows to promote the mission of the founding father of the meditation technique worldwide. In fact, the monastic activities are merely the tip of this iceberg; the material and financial expansions of the community have been more progressive than meditation retreats. Equipped with its own twenty-four-hour satellite TV, infinite funding, superb location, gigantic piece of land not far from Bangkok, and millions of followers, many of whom hold high positions in the cabinet, private sector, military and political parties—Wat Phra Dhammakāya will expand, not only to fulfill its apparent mission, but also to make radical changes to the political system of Thailand.

helparcfun wrote:Its been a while since I've posted on here and as Kumara recently wrote a few posts I thought I'd post this as a kind of answer to my own question about whether or not DMC will endure. So after reading through this I have come to the definite conclusion that DMC is here to stay. Meanwhile, my issues with my wife following this group will continue until who knows when??

Wat Phra Dhammakāya is an established international organization—a spiritual empire that grew out of the charismatic leadership of Phra Phromayanthera or Phra Chaiboon Dhammajayo which vows to promote the mission of the founding father of the meditation technique worldwide. In fact, the monastic activities are merely the tip of this iceberg; the material and financial expansions of the community have been more progressive than meditation retreats. Equipped with its own twenty-four-hour satellite TV, infinite funding, superb location, gigantic piece of land not far from Bangkok, and millions of followers, many of whom hold high positions in the cabinet, private sector, military and political parties—Wat Phra Dhammakāya will expand, not only to fulfill its apparent mission, but also to make radical changes to the political system of Thailand.

helparcfun wrote:Its been a while since I've posted on here and as Kumara recently wrote a few posts I thought I'd post this as a kind of answer to my own question about whether or not DMC will endure. So after reading through this I have come to the definite conclusion that DMC is here to stay. Meanwhile, my issues with my wife following this group will continue until who knows when??

Are you resigning?

If you'd like to do something about it, I suggest you google: cult exit counseling familyYou may not engage a cult expert to help you but you can find helpful suggestions that you can apply on your own. This short clip gives a gist of that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG5j1ofuyXM

Wat Phra Dhammakāya is an established international organization—a spiritual empire that grew out of the charismatic leadership of Phra Phromayanthera or Phra Chaiboon Dhammajayo which vows to promote the mission of the founding father of the meditation technique worldwide. In fact, the monastic activities are merely the tip of this iceberg; the material and financial expansions of the community have been more progressive than meditation retreats. Equipped with its own twenty-four-hour satellite TV, infinite funding, superb location, gigantic piece of land not far from Bangkok, and millions of followers, many of whom hold high positions in the cabinet, private sector, military and political parties—Wat Phra Dhammakāya will expand, not only to fulfill its apparent mission, but also to make radical changes to the political system of Thailand.

Essentially, its becoming the Thai/Buddhist equivalent of Scientology. Most cult experts I've read about spend most of their resources on preventive education, which I agree is the best thing to do.

It's like a computer virus. A computer with a user who knows how computer viruses work would be equipped with preventive measures. Even with if the virus managed to infiltrate, the user would be discerning enough to be aware of it and do what is necessary.

The latest strategy of Dhammakaya (with the help of the Thai ministry of education) is to brainwash most of the school teachers in the country by having them attend "Dhamma training courses" organized by the Dhammakaya people. Then these teachers will pass on what they have learnt to primary school children throughout the country, because in Thailand Buddhism is the majority religion and de facto state religion. Now there is some resistance to this being voiced by academics and NGOs promoting freedom of religious choice, but the strategy is clear -- to introduce an ideology to a whole new generation and in that way to make use of State Buddhism to promote one particular sect as the best example: