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But those qualities don't necessarily translate towards a certain player's performance on the baseball field. We're not discussing nor evaluating which one of Escobar/Jeter/Hardy are the better team captain/clubhouse leader. We're here discussing which one of them is the better overall SS in 2012. And the only way of supporting our argument for the one of them is by using stats that relate to offensive/defensive porductivity. Such intangibles like being a clubhouse leader, team captain, and being the cash cow of his team's ticket sales don't necessarily come into play here.

The thing is though, we're not comparing the particular player's personality and attitude within the clubhouse. For example, Manny (from '02-07) was an offensive monster (despite the use of HGH) while pretty much being an absolute moron. But despite his personality, I'm pretty sure every team and every fan would've wanted him on their side solely based on his offensive productivity.

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We're here discussing which one of them is the better overall SS in 2012.
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That is my point. Better overall. Not best fielding and batting stats. 'Overall' includes many aspects.

'Real' Yankee fans tell the truth about the team whether it is nice or not.

"Well, that kind of puts a damper on even a Yankee win."
-- Yankees announcer Phil Rizzuto after reading a bulletin that Pope Paul VI had died

I would take Escobar. I still can't believe they got him for Alex Gonzalez, that was a trade rape

To be fair, the Braves got Alex Gonzalez plus Tyler Pastornicky (the 22-year old current starting SS for the Braves), and Tim Collins, a 22-year old reliever in the Royals pen and a potential closer-of-the-future.

Hardly a steal if you ask me.

Also, people rave about Escobar's defence as being amazing, but if we're goin by UZR, Escobar's defence is above average for a SS (between 4.2 and 1.7 per 150 each year for the last 4 years) versus Hardy who's been one of the best (between 6.8 and 12.8 the last 4 years). If we're goin by stats, Hardy's clearly the better defender. Escobar, stats-wise is the better bat, which makes this a close call.

EDIT: I was using Fangraphs' UZR to measure defence. Baseball-reference's Rtot/g and Rdrs/g have Yunel Escobar as slightly better than JJ Hardy for the last 4 years. Might as well call this one a wash defensively, and give Yunel the edge overall because of his offence.

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We're here discussing which one of them is the better overall SS in 2012.
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That is my point. Better overall. Not best fielding and batting stats. 'Overall' includes many aspects.

I am sure I played it much longer and at a higher level than you ever did. If you can't understand the premise of, 'better overall' including qualities other than physical ability you have shown it is you who really has not been near the game. Try the NHL forum. You might like that.

You spelled God incorrectly.

Back to your statistics and your Fantasy Baseball League.

'Real' Yankee fans tell the truth about the team whether it is nice or not.

"Well, that kind of puts a damper on even a Yankee win."
-- Yankees announcer Phil Rizzuto after reading a bulletin that Pope Paul VI had died

Yankees forum Press release: 7chuck7 does not represent the views of the PSD Yankees forum. We were very happy with Jeter's improved bat during the 2nd half of the 2011 season and his good start this season. However we do not condone the use of hustle, ticket sales, grit, and leadership as a way to determine the playing ability of a MLB player.