you must know that mr van Nieuwenhuizen never practiced Shintairyu... Mr. Sterke invented his school much later.

Originally Posted by FYT

The Shin Tai Ryu continues a dutch tradition of jujutsu that was introduced to the Netherlands in the early 1900's by japanese teachers settling in Europe and the U.S.
Teachings, predominantly based on the Tenjin Shinyō-ryū style.

Originally Posted by FYT

I'm speaking of Japanese teachers settling and introducing judo and Jujutsu in the west in GENERAL during this time period.
Not that this tradition had a DIRECT Japanese link.

"Shin Tai Ryu" the name of the SCHOOL not the name of the ART(s) being taught!
it is a continuation of the school that was called "Shin Gi Tai" (again.. just a name like: "the Chigago Bulls")
And like other teams in the NBA play "basketball", Whats being taught in "Shin Tai Ryu" is a plain DUTCH tradition Jujutsu.

Research towards the origin of this DUTCH tradition, point to the fact the techniques probably came from Tenjin Shinyō-ryū but Shin Tai Ryu doesnt teach Tenjin Shinyō-ryū
"Shin Tai Ryu" teaches the "Shin Tai Ryu flavour" of the DUTCH jujutsu tradition.

Originally Posted by backatya

He has made-up his own system, not that bad, but he is promoting it as being “real ko ryu jujutsu” which of course it isn’t. The best name I can give it is self-made Dutch self defense , or maybe budo.

Originally Posted by FYT

It doesnt claim that "Shin Tai Ryu" is Koryu itself, but that you can also learn real koryu systems there besidesShin Tai Ryu which is not Koryu but which teaches the dutch system LIKE a Koryu in japan would teach it.

The ONLY Koryu styles (Sho Sho Ryu and Muhen yogan ryu) are taught in the weekends and have NOTHING to do with the Shin Tai Ryu teachings.
Even though THIS is wat you people seem to be reading/understanding, which is understandable cuz its not being conveyed in the greatest english... but THAT it what it says..nothing else.

"Shin Tai Ryu" the name of the SCHOOL not the name of the ART(s) being taught!
it is a continuation of the school that was called "Shin Gi Tai" (again.. just a name like: "the Chigago Bulls")
And like other teams in the NBA play "basketball", Whats being taught in "Shin Tai Ryu" is a plain DUTCH tradition Jujutsu.

Your metaphor makes no sense. Your school is named after a style it doesn't teach... don't you see how that might lead to some confusion?

Research towards the origin of this DUTCH tradition, point to the fact the techniques probably came from Tenjin Shinyō-ryū but Shin Tai Ryu doesnt teach Tenjin Shinyō-ryū
"Shin Tai Ryu" teaches the "Shin Tai Ryu flavour" of the DUTCH jujutsu tradition.

The ONLY Koryu styles (Sho Sho Ryu and Muhen yogan ryu) are taught in the weekends and have NOTHING to do with the Shin Tai Ryu teachings.
Even though THIS is wat you people seem to be reading/understanding, which is understandable cuz its not being conveyed in the greatest english... but THAT it what it says..nothing else.

Okay, what research? (As in provide links to it).

So if my understanding is right: your school is a flavor of dutch jujutsu, which in turn is a flavor of japanese jujutsu.

So what I conclude is that this is a completely modern system. (Not that it is necessarily a bad thing). Despite this, your school is named after an existing traditional style.

It is funny how you explainthings FYT. I’m sorry Crazy horse that we are not talking about the teachinglicensee of mr. Sterke regarding the ko ryu schools he is teaching but I’m surewe will come to that later in this discussion.If I understand correctly FYT you think that mr.van Nieuwenhuizen is a legitimate generation of the Shin Tai Ryu, because he practiced in Holland and did Dutch ju jutsu?

But that isn’t a the way generation counting works in Japanese martial art schools. Of course the first generations of ko ryu arehard to prove, or are sometimes starting in fantasizing stores about gods, dreams and that kind of thing. But if in Japan they were counting thegenerations on the person who did Japanese ju jutsu, yawara or martial artsthen everyone is connected!

But that’s not how it work. You count based on the school, and techniques. Of course things in school change (not common now adays in Japan), but counting generations because a person did ju jutsu?

For me this is a way of trying to make more out of something that isn’t that much. I’m not saying that the techniques the practice in the Shintairyu arenot fun to do or practical, but the way mr. Sterke is explaining the history is not correct. And how he teaches his ko ryu techniques based on knowledge frombooks and videos can’t find any appreciation on my part. This is not the way to pass on the treasures of Japanese culture.

It is funny how you explainthings FYT. I’m sorry Crazy horse that we are not talking about the teachinglicensee of mr. Sterke regarding the ko ryu schools he is teaching but I’m surewe will come to that later in this discussion.If I understand correctly FYT you think that mr.van Nieuwenhuizen is a legitimate generation of the Shin Tai Ryu, because he practiced in Holland and did Dutch ju jutsu?

But that isn’t a the way generation counting works in Japanese martial art schools. Of course the first generations of ko ryu arehard to prove, or are sometimes starting in fantasizing stores about gods, dreams and that kind of thing. But if in Japan they were counting thegenerations on the person who did Japanese ju jutsu, yawara or martial artsthen everyone is connected!

But that’s not how it work. You count based on the school, and techniques. Of course things in school change (not common now adays in Japan), but counting generations because a person did ju jutsu?

For me this is a way of trying to make more out of something that isn’t that much. I’m not saying that the techniques the practice in the Shintairyu arenot fun to do or practical, but the way mr. Sterke is explaining the history is not correct. And how he teaches his ko ryu techniques based on knowledge frombooks and videos can’t find any appreciation on my part. This is not the way to pass on the treasures of Japanese culture.

No one said, so I will. Get the proof or stop. You keep saying he is a video and book teacher, but have yet to prove your assertions. The same thing that JK just told FYT applies to you. Get the proof or your claims to back your claims and research.

"Shin Tai Ryu" the name of the SCHOOL not the name of the ART(s) being taught!
it is a continuation of the school that was called "Shin Gi Tai" (again.. just a name like: "the Chigago Bulls")
And like other teams in the NBA play "basketball", Whats being taught in "Shin Tai Ryu" is a plain DUTCH tradition Jujutsu.

No, this is a terrible example. They all may play basketball, but there is only ONE NBA TEAM called the Chicago Bulls.

Here is the list of the schools he is teaching in. Its from the pdf that was posted by Crazzy Horse. I have did some quick research in books published by mr. Sterke and based on that made this link. Maybe FYL or anybody else can add to, or comment on, this list.

No one said, so I will. Get the proof or stop. You keep saying he is a video and book teacher, but have yet to prove your assertions. The same thing that JK just told FYT applies to you. Get the proof or your claims to back your claims and research.

No, this is a terrible example. They all may play basketball, but there is only ONE NBA TEAM called the Chicago Bulls.

It's not that easy to get proof based on web links. But I hope that you can see that something must be wrong here. The list of schools is to long to have visited all in Japan, let alone have practiced.

And in your reply I can see you are doubting the lineage.

I can't find any evidence that mr. Sterke practiced in any of the schools marked in red. So if there is anyone that can proof me wrong...

JohnKenner grasps what I meant,
Although "I" am personally unaware of a traditional Japanese school called "Shin Tai Ryu".IF that is the case (that there IS a Japanese Shin Tai Ryu) then I apologize for the confusion, But our Shin Tai Ryu has NOTHING to do with that school!

But Backatya:
No.. the "Shin Tai Ryu" is a descendant from techniques taught by van Nieuwenhuizen's judo/jujutsu not the other way around, (Wherever those techniques came from).
Our lineage refers to the teacher > student=teacher > student=teacher etc.
Since it started in Holland there's no need to do this like the Japanese model.

The last two generations however have been traveling to Japan, (mr. Sterke about 20x)
in order to fine tune our existing Shin Tai Ryu techniques.
And learn and "earn" the mokurokus of 2 Koryu schools

Several of our masters got these mokurokus and the Sho Sho Ryu grandmaster and his son regularly visit our dojo every few years. (this much I know for sure)

How long these 20 visits were, and wheither or not it was sufficient to earn them.. or they got them out of some form of respect I dunno (before my time)

But only these 2 Koryu systems are being taught the way it was taught to them.

Only what's listed under Shin Tai Ryu: is what is taught AT Shin Tai Ryu, (And Sterke is not the only teacher thus other "specialists")
From what's listed under Oranda Bujutsu Gakkai only Sho sho Ryu and Muhen Yogan Ryu is taught by Shin Tai Ryu teachers.

The others are taught by OTHER schools IN the "Oranda Bujutsu Gakkai!"
A league of independent schools gathered under a name of which Sterke happens to be director.
and who provide interrelated workshops to each other.

Beyond that the list simply publishes the names of schools and their arts for educational purposes.

OK, FYT can you please confirm this, just to be sure if I understand it correctly.

- Shintairyu is a Dutch school practising Dutch ju jutsu. Dutch ju jutsu is a mix of martial from al kinds of art (Japanese, Chinese, unkown).
- The linage is based on people knowing and teaching each other. Not on school name and more or less fixed teachings. So lets call this the Dutch way of counting linage not the Japanese way.
- Regarding Japanese ko ryu, mr. Sterke is only teaching students Sho sho ryu and Muhen yongan ryu. All other schools are not being educated.

The others are taught by OTHER schools IN the "Oranda Bujutsu Gakkai!"
A league of independent schools gathered under a name of which Sterke happens to be director.
and who provide interrelated workshops to each other.

So all the OTHER schools are taught and are connected to the Oranda Bujutsu Gakkai? So all these legitimated ko ryu are connect to the Oranda Bujutsu Gakkai...