Yeah, I heard that interview yesterday. I hate to say it, but Canseco sounds more believeable than McGwire has since he's come out of the steroid closet.

SOXPHILE

01-13-2010, 10:29 AM

Yeah, I heard that interview yesterday. I hate to say it, but Canseco sounds more believeable than McGwire has since he's come out of the steroid closet.

And how sad of a commentary on the whole thing is that ? He's right, LaRussa is a straight up, damn liar. And McGwire, as was disected from many different angles in the other thread, is only coming out now because of the nightmare he and the Cardinals would face at spring training when he shows up as their hitting coach. Listening to his interview and comments, he's also still a damn liar. Saying that steroids (and HGH which he also took) - performance enhancing drugs, didn't aid him in his performance, he only used them to recover from injuries ?

spawn

01-13-2010, 10:33 AM

And how sad of a commentary on the whole thing is that ? He's right, LaRussa is a straight up, damn liar. And McGwire, as was disected from many different angles in the other thread, is only coming out now because of the nightmare he and the Cardinals would face at spring training when he shows up as their hitting coach. Listening to his interview and comments, he's also still a damn liar. Saying that steroids (and HGH which he also took) - performance enhancing drugs, didn't aid him in his performance, he only used them to recover from injuries ?
Exactly. You know there's something wrong when Canseco is the voice of reason.

dickallen15

01-13-2010, 10:36 AM

Jose Canseco is still scum. He very easily could have been bought off and all his truths would be lies. Take Roger Clemens. He said Clemens didn't do steroids and would never cheat on his wife. I wonder how big the check was Rocket had to cut for that.

tstrike2000

01-13-2010, 10:52 AM

Jose Canseco is still scum. He very easily could have been bought off and all his truths would be lies. Take Roger Clemens. He said Clemens didn't do steroids and would never cheat on his wife. I wonder how big the check was Rocket had to cut for that.

And he'd probably not really deny that he's scum or what he's doing is scum. To him it's about whatever publicity he could get out of it. Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on how you look at it, he's been right. As for Clemens, it doesn't matter, not a single person I know would believe he never took a PED.

Smokey Burg

01-13-2010, 02:24 PM

Does Canseco feel like he is taking the moral high ground by reminding everyone (endlessly) that he ratted out many of the users during his career? He's a slimeball calling other players scumbags, big deal. Jose, crawl back under your rock. Besides, the time you spent with Sox, you sucked! Shut up, go away, and maybe you'll be forgotten, because if you're remembered, you'll be remembered as a cheating rat.

Daver

01-13-2010, 02:32 PM

Saying that steroids (and HGH which he also took) - performance enhancing drugs, didn't aid him in his performance, he only used them to recover from injuries ?

The main advantage to steroids is that they help the body heal faster, that is why pitchers use them more than hitters do.

spawn

01-13-2010, 02:35 PM

Does Canseco feel like he is taking the moral high ground by reminding everyone (endlessly) that he ratted out many of the users during his career? He's a slimeball calling other players scumbags, big deal. Jose, crawl back under your rock. Besides, the time you spent with Sox, you sucked! Shut up, go away, and maybe you'll be forgotten, because if you're remembered, you'll be remembered as a cheating rat.
Well, i'm sure once McGwire came clean and was interviewed, Canseco had microphones thrown in his face for his reaction. Yes, he's a slime ball for writing a book that ratted out fellow cheaters in baseball, and I am in no way a Canseco apologist, but do you honestly think MLB would have the steroid testing program they have in place right now if he didn't write the book? And I don't see anywhere that he's taking any moral high ground. All he's doing is stating he's not the one lying about his.

soxinem1

01-13-2010, 02:40 PM

To me one of the hidden 'players' in this mess is Dave McKay. McKay is one of LaRussa's longest-serving coaches.

As a player, he was a little, weak-hitting INF, but all of a sudden he became a weight-training guru. Looking at him in his OAK uniform in the 70's is much different than how he looked in the 80's as a coach.

McKay was a big believer in pushing strength training to A's players back then, especially the power hitters. While this is no big deal, I find it hard to believe that he could not tell that Canseco, Mac, Giambi x2, etc, were not all of a sudden exploding so quickly....

Unless of course, he showed them the way...

SOXPHILE

01-13-2010, 05:50 PM

The main advantage to steroids is that they help the body heal faster, that is why pitchers use them more than hitters do.

Yes, but he also seems to imply that the steroids, and HGH, (which seems to get lumped into the general "steroids" pile), didn't really help him get stronger, thus leading to more homeruns. It was all his God given talent and workout regime.

Daver

01-13-2010, 05:57 PM

Yes, but he also seems to imply that the steroids, and HGH, (which seems to get lumped into the general "steroids" pile), didn't really help him get stronger, thus leading to more homeruns. It was all his God given talent and workout regime.

You don't add muscle without working out, steroids will help you achieve that goal more quickly, but you still do have to put the work in. The hardest thing to do in baseball is hit the ball, steroids are not going to give you the timing and eye to achieve that, or even improve those inherent abilities.

thedudeabides

01-13-2010, 06:03 PM

The main advantage to steroids is that they help the body heal faster, that is why pitchers use them more than hitters do.

I'm sorry, but this is a completely empty statement. Steroids make you bigger, faster, and stronger. There is no denying that.

Daver

01-13-2010, 06:05 PM

I'm sorry, but this is a completely empty statement. Steroids make you bigger, faster, and stronger. There is no denying that.

Yeah, they're magical, take two pills and wake up the next day with 30 extra pounds of muscle and the ability to outrun a train.

thedudeabides

01-13-2010, 06:08 PM

Yeah, they're magical, take two pills and wake up the next day with 30 extra pounds of muscle and the ability to outrun a train.

Obviously, it goes with working out, but it allows you to get to levels you never could achieve otherwise. Ignoring that is irresponsible and ignorant.

Daver

01-13-2010, 06:10 PM

Obviously, it goes with working out, but it allows you to get to levels you never could achieve otherwise. Ignoring that is irresponsible and ignorant.

Irresponsible and ignorant perfectly describes your previous statement, and you really should look into the differences between HGH and steroids.

thedudeabides

01-13-2010, 06:14 PM

Irresponsible and ignorant perfectly describes your previous statement, and you really should look into the differences between HGH and steroids.

I don't even know what to say to this. I'm going to back out of this argument before I get pissed.

I could give you a clinic on steroids and HGH. I don't even understand what your point is.

slavko

01-13-2010, 06:28 PM

Does Canseco feel like he is taking the moral high ground by reminding everyone (endlessly) that he ratted out many of the users during his career? He's a slimeball calling other players scumbags, big deal. Jose, crawl back under your rock. Besides, the time you spent with Sox, you sucked! Shut up, go away, and maybe you'll be forgotten, because if you're remembered, you'll be remembered as a cheating rat.

It goes against our value systems when the bad guy is telling the truth and the good guys (our heroes) are lying. So we attack the messenger. Still doesn't make him the liar, as hard as we try to paint him as the bad guy. Which he is, of course.

white sox bill

01-13-2010, 06:30 PM

Not sure if I saw this in this thread or not but why is Mark finally fessing up? Does he have ulterior motives? I mean I couldn't care less what he used last decade, last century or last millennium. Why come clean now??

Brian26

01-13-2010, 08:15 PM

Not sure if I saw this in this thread or not but why is Mark finally fessing up? Does he have ulterior motives? I mean I couldn't care less what he used last decade, last century or last millennium. Why come clean now??

Because he just accepted a position as the Cardinals hitting coach and really hasn't faced the media since the 2005 Congressional Hearings. The proverbial **** would hit the fan if he waited until Spring Training to answer questions, so I assume he wanted to get it out of the way for the good of the organization. Doesn't make him any less of a fool though.

TommyJohn

01-13-2010, 08:25 PM

Because he just accepted a position as the Cardinals hitting coach and really hasn't faced the media since the 2005 Congressional Hearings. The proverbial **** would hit the fan if he waited until Spring Training to answer questions, so I assume he wanted to get it out of the way for the good of the organization. Doesn't make him any less of a fool though.But...but...didn't you see the way he cried when he apologized to Mrs. Maris? It damn near broke my ****ing heart.

Soxfest

01-13-2010, 08:35 PM

Tony is full of it he knew dam well all of it, his arrogance towards everyone is beyond belief!:angry:

Rdy2PlayBall

01-13-2010, 08:50 PM

This guy seems like a real jerk. He wasn't playing baseball by the time I started watching it... so this is my first look/hearing of him. His interview on ESPN makes him look demonic. I feel sorry for McGuire to be honest. For some reason, I don't care if he get's into the HOF... but I will never accept Bonds being in it. Is there something wrong with that? =P

Craig Grebeck

01-13-2010, 09:00 PM

This guy seems like a real jerk. He wasn't playing baseball by the time I started watching it... so this is my first look/hearing of him. His interview on ESPN makes him look demonic. I feel sorry for McGuire to be honest. For some reason, I don't care if he get's into the HOF... but I will never accept Bonds being in it. Is there something wrong with that? =P
Of course. Bonds was a far, far better player than McGwire, even without steroids.

Rdy2PlayBall

01-13-2010, 09:15 PM

Of course. Bonds was a far, far better player than McGwire, even without steroids.Alright. Since I was a wi-pup when all this was going on... I'll take your advice. I wish he would admit it and tells us what years. It might not be that bad... like of like the A-Rod situation.

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/53439

michned

01-14-2010, 12:40 AM

Because he just accepted a position as the Cardinals hitting coach and really hasn't faced the media since the 2005 Congressional Hearings. The proverbial **** would hit the fan if he waited until Spring Training to answer questions, so I assume he wanted to get it out of the way for the good of the organization. Doesn't make him any less of a fool though.

You'd have to believe that, as soon as McGwire accepted the hitting coach position, he and LaRussa knew he would have to come out, if he didn't it would be a huge distraction. Which means that he and LaRussa and others (Bud perhaps?) had planned to do it this way all along, coming out after the Holidays but a month or so before Spring Training, sort of like floating a trial balloon. And I still think if there is a severe backlash into February, he may just decide it's not worth it and resign.

Sam Spade

01-14-2010, 12:45 AM

Obviously, it goes with working out, but it allows you to get to levels you never could achieve otherwise. Ignoring that is irresponsible and ignorant.
I completely agree.

white sox bill

01-14-2010, 07:20 AM

Well now they are all coming clean, when will this guy do same??
:nandrolone"Steroi....er I mean Baseball has been berry berry good to me!"

downstairs

01-14-2010, 01:35 PM

To say a manager didn't know is absolutely foolish. These guys are together, like a family, 24/7 for more than half the year. Most importantly when they're working out. And if you're taking 'roids, your workout scheme must be somewhat different. You have to workout WITH the 'roids and schedule your workout accordingly to have it actually work.

slavko

01-14-2010, 01:42 PM

This guy seems like a real jerk. He wasn't playing baseball by the time I started watching it... so this is my first look/hearing of him. His interview on ESPN makes him look demonic. I feel sorry for McGuire to be honest. For some reason, I don't care if he get's into the HOF... but I will never accept Bonds being in it. Is there something wrong with that? =P

I was attributing his cleared up skin to being roid free, but you could see his neck is still badly pock marked during the interview, so maybe he had dermabrasion or something on his face. Acne is a side effect of roids.

SOXPHILE

01-14-2010, 02:21 PM

You don't add muscle without working out, steroids will help you achieve that goal more quickly, but you still do have to put the work in. The hardest thing to do in baseball is hit the ball, steroids are not going to give you the timing and eye to achieve that, or even improve those inherent abilities.

Correct. I'm not saying steroids and HGH magically give someone more muscle mass without working out. It's just they add more of it compared to somebody who works out without taking any PED's. That's when it becomes cheating. As far as the hand eye coordination, it may not help you actually hit the ball, but it does help you hit it harder and further. Flyballs to the outfield become homeruns. Ground balls in the infield become hard shots on the ground that get through the infield.

TheOldRoman

01-14-2010, 02:52 PM

You don't add muscle without working out, steroids will help you achieve that goal more quickly, but you still do have to put the work in. The hardest thing to do in baseball is hit the ball, steroids are not going to give you the timing and eye to achieve that, or even improve those inherent abilities.In "Game of Shadows", it mentions that the stuff Bonds took did increase his hand-eye coordination and make his vision better, which was already great. I am not sure if that was only when Bonds started taking HGH or all of the roids he took. However, McGwire admitted he took HGH also, so I don't doubt doping improved his vision.

You are correct that players take roids to recover, whether it be from a grueling work-out session or pitching 4 days in a row. McGwire may have started taking roids to recover from injuries, that makes sense. However, he realized that he could work out like a madman and not have to wait days to do the same workout. He is lying through his teeth saying he only used roids to get healthy.

FielderJones

01-14-2010, 03:23 PM

Well now they are all coming clean, when will this guy do same??
:nandrolone"Steroi....er I mean Baseball has been berry berry good to me!"

According to Mark Grace (http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/01/grace-worried-steroids-would-ruin-his-sex-life.html), probably never. Gotta say, it's nice to see Gracie had his priorities right. :tongue:

white sox bill

01-14-2010, 03:38 PM

In "Game of Shadows", it mentions that the stuff Bonds took did increase his hand-eye coordination and make his vision better, which was already great. I am not sure if that was only when Bonds started taking HGH or all of the roids he took. However, McGwire admitted he took HGH also, so I don't doubt doping improved his vision.

You are correct that players take roids to recover, whether it be from a grueling work-out session or pitching 4 days in a row. McGwire may have started taking roids to recover from injuries, that makes sense. However, he realized that he could work out like a madman and not have to wait days to do the same workout. He is lying through his teeth saying he only used roids to get healthy.

I doubt it helps with hand-eye coordination, but GH in general helps with sight in some. Its called the Fountain of Youth due to claims it returns an aging body back to someone 19. So you sleep better, skin gets elasticity back, reduces wrinkles etc. Many non-strength athletes use 1iu-1.5 iu/per day for said reasons. Your body produces 0.5-1.5 iu/per day naturally on its own via the pituitary gland. Of course, this total decreases with age. This is why all the anti-aging clinics sprung up esp. in Florida(the retirement state). I met a guy at a trade show once that claimed hos clinic prescribed for Jose. He said Jose wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. I'm sure Jose was using above and beyond prescribed dosage for muscle building.

TheVulture

01-14-2010, 03:57 PM

According to Mark Grace (http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/01/grace-worried-steroids-would-ruin-his-sex-life.html), probably never. Gotta say, it's nice to see Gracie had his priorities right. :tongue:

I liked Grace as the Dbacks color guy - he's got a little Hawk in him.