Friday, August 12, 2011

Pique a boo

Things became really ugly in the fifth when Freddie Freeman and Dan Uggla hit back to back home runs. Zambrano then threw two inside pitches at Chipper Jones, missing both times.

I understand (but do not endorse) the baseball tradition of a pitcher throwing a "purpose pitch" at an opposing batter as retaliation for the other team's pitcher having hit a batter. But I don't understand the tradition of throwing at a batter just because his teammates have hit home runs off you.

What's the message? Stop hitting home runs? That's stupid and sick.

MLB should "retire" Zambrano for the rest of the season whether he chooses to try to un-retire himself or not.

Posted at 11:30:44 PM

Comments

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Zambrano is the biggest cancer in Cubs history, which is saying something when you've had Milton Bradley on your roster. Zambrano will no doubt reconsider his "retirement" when he and his agent realize how much money he's still owed. I just hope Hendry has the courage to void the remainder of his contract.

Just when I think "Z" has finally put his act together, he has another meltdown. I have no respect for a pitcher who throws at opposing batters after he's been hit hard. Zambrano has obvious emotional problems (nothing the Cubs haven't known about for some time). I don't think MLB can force him to take the rest of the year off, but the Cubs certainly can, and should, do just that.

The message is supposed to be one of intimidation and respect. Prevent the batter from digging in and protecting the outside corner of the plate.For an opposing bench to empty its bench and for the Cubs as a team to watch and sit on their hands says a lot about Zambrano as a teammate and the amount of respect he has. What goes on in pitching inside today is tame compared to previous eras.Two of the most feared in this respect were Bob Gibson and Don Drysdale and a pitcher from the forties and early fifties, Sal "the barber" Maglie noted for his close shaves with the high hard one. This on Gibson:"Gibson's reputation was legendary. The best players in the league and the veterans schooled the rookies on the finer points of facing Gibson. Get in the box fast. Don't dig in and if you happen to get hold of one run around the bases quick and don't look in his direction. The intimidation factor led to an extra 10-15% more strikeouts for scowling Gibson." Maestro a little chin music please.

Zambrano should've been traded when he fought Barrett in the dugout. Goes to show just how stupid and incompetent the Cubs organization is when they hang onto a guy that long that you know is mentally handicapped.

--The unwritten rules of baseball are in place for a reason. Pitchers have to protect the plate and with all of the padding that batters use these days, it's easy for them to get an "unfair" advantage by crowding. Those of you who complain about the unwritten rules don't understand baseball. I used to throw inside at 12 year olds when I was in little league. It's part of the game; grow up.

ZORN REPLY -- Throwing inside to keep batters from crowding the plate is one thing. Throwing at them is another, and if you did that Greg, you needed to grow up, even at 12, and if you defend that today you STILL need to grow up. Throwing at a batter to take revenge on their teammates who've been hitting out of the yard the fat pitches you've been grooving down the middle is psychotically poor sportsmanship. Sounds like you had an early start on that, though.

ZORN REPLY -- Throwing inside to keep batters from crowding the plate is one thing. Throwing at them is another, and if you did that Greg, you needed to grow up, even at 12, and if you defend that today you STILL need to grow up. Throwing at a batter to take revenge on their teammates who've been hitting out of the yard the fat pitches you've been grooving down the middle is psychotically poor sportsmanship. Sounds like you had an early start on that, though.

GREG J REPLY -- Of course it's stupid to throw at someone who hit a home run against you (unless he was showing you up) and I agree it's poor sportsmanship. I was addressing comments that were making the blanket case that it's always wrong to throw at someone, which is absurd and betrays a lack of understanding of the game. If you need to send a message, it's ok to throw at someone as long as you aim for the body and not the head. I emphasize that such situations are rare but, as a pitcher, you will find yourself in that position once or twice a season. It's part of the game.

ZORN REPLY -- By that token, so is stealing signs from an outfield camera or trying to throw spitballs or charging the mound with your fists flying. It's an indefensible part of the game, and you haven't raised a defense here. It's OK to send a message by throwing AT someone? What message is that? Don't hit homeruns off me? Don't stand where the rules permit you to stand when you bat?
We know it's not "part of the game" otherwise Zambrano wouldn't have gotten run for doing it last night.
And why are baseball pitchers such whiny babies about getting "shown up" when someone hits a homerun off them? Basketball players are always prancing and taunting and trash talking and showboating and it's the rare unhinged player who has a violent hissy about it. But pause to admire a home run at the plate and poor little sensitive pitcher who has just failed to do his job takes it as a personal affront and begins plotting revenge. Geez. Get your revenge by throwing better strikes next time, the way basketball players get their revenge by sinking a three pointer in the face of the guy who just taunted them.

-- Another unwritten rule of baseball is if a pitcher throws head shots at your teammates, it's your job as their pitcher to return the action when you take the mound. Perhaps that's why the Zambrano's teammates didn't leave the bench after Atlanta's team poured on the field? Is it fair one of them becomes the next target, due to his uncontrollable reactions?

Like everything else getting hit intentionally by a pitcher ended up in court. In California (surprise) here is what the California Supreme court had to say:"For better or worse, being intentionally thrown at is a fundamental part and inherent risk of the sport of baseball. " Case closed. The court has spoken.

ZORN REPLY -- By that token, so is stealing signs from an outfield camera or trying to throw spitballs or charging the mound with your fists flying. It's an indefensible part of the game, and you haven't raised a defense here. It's OK to send a message by throwing AT someone? What message is that? Don't hit homeruns off me? Don't stand where the rules permit you to stand when you bat?
We know it's not "part of the game" otherwise Zambrano wouldn't have gotten run for doing it last night.
And why are baseball pitchers such whiny babies about getting "shown up" when someone hits a homerun off them? Basketball players are always prancing and taunting and trash talking and showboating and it's the rare unhinged player who has a violent hissy about it. But pause to admire a home run at the plate and poor little sensitive pitcher who has just failed to do his job takes it as a personal affront and begins plotting revenge. Geez. Get your revenge by throwing better strikes next time, the way basketball players get their revenge by sinking a three pointer in the face of the guy who just taunted them.

GREG J REPLY -- Stealing signs is unfair but charging the mound to protect yourself can be appropriate given the circumstances. Again, I'm not defending a pitcher who throws at someone because he hit a home run. That's stupid and Wendy C makes a fine point about the repercussions.

Throwing at a player establishes boundaries and sends a message to opponents. Like fighting in hockey, or any other sport, it should be rare but it is very much part of the game. In basketball, you can retaliate physically by, for example, throwing an elbow that nobody sees (you hope). It's a contact sport. In baseball, however, it's rare you have a chance to physically retaliate so it's almost always up to the pitcher.

I doubt fear of retaliation was the reason the Cubs didn't clear the bench. If that was the reason though, then it speaks volumes about their heart and intensity as professional atheletes and as a team. They need to take a long look in the mirror. Perhaps that's why they are 17 games under .500.

Thanks for your reply, and I agree with your earlier assessment of the purpose pitch. Most pitchers will tell you the outside edge of the plate is theirs, and they'll defend it vigorously. One of my old favorites at this task was Nolan Ryan.

I never understood why the Cubs made Zambrano their ace a couple of years ago just because he had an above average season. It was a totally premature move by the Cubs. It frustrated me as a Cub fan to see their management put so much faith in such a mentally frail man.

I don't fault Zambrano at all. He's an idiot. The Cubs enabled him time and time again. They protected him as if he was a proven winner. They acted scared of him, and they even chose him over an honorable man like Derek Lee.

It's another sign that Quade and Hendry have lost the team. They didn't go for prospects when it was obvious the team was going nowhere. Or, if they thought the team was capable of making a run, a veteran clubhouse leader would have worked too. Instead, they sat on their hand, continuing with status quo. It's not quite 25 players, 25 cabs, but there's no team cohesion, and that starts at the top. Both of them should be gone well before the next spring training.

The Cubs are being revealed as the second tier team they have always been. Once the Wrigley Field fad is gone another Lee Elia rant can't be far away. Only the unemployed bums will be in the stands ... and Zambrano can join them.

Monahan, you said it well and know whereof you all talkin' about. Pitchers don't like it when a batter spends 20 seconds digging a trench in the batters box, and they will throw high heat at that batter. It's part of the game, which is played by men, if you recall. This ain't the little leagues, it's the Bigs.

I don't think anyone is disputing that "being intentionally thrown at is a fundamental part and inherent risk of the sport of baseball". The problem is that Zambrano's particular act has played itself out. He certainly didn't come across as a confident, in control pitcher working the strike zone, but as a petulant crybaby throwing at hitters in frustrating desperation.

ZORN REPLY -- I am disputing that it is a "fundamental part" of baseball. Throwing at batter trying to hit him is not more a "fundamental part" of baseball than committing flagrant fouls is a "fundamental part" of basketball. Yes, it happens. But no, there is no excuse for it and no, it shouldn't be countenanced or condoned by thuggish fans.

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