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It will work out great for the Bigfooters if the court throws out the lawsuit without a trial. They can say that it is confirmation of a government conspiracy to suppress the knowledge of the existence of Bigfoot.

^^^ I think this is probably the heart of the matter. Both the publicity of filing it (which they claimed publicly when they "filed") and then its forthcoming dismissal are the true intentions here. Both instances being perfect cheap set-ups for more publicity. From the now debunked school of any publicity is good publicity. But it's what brain damaged morons with too much money and an insufferable dedication to pulling the wool over the rest of the world's eyes would do.

I'm not sure it's always clear what a serious perversion it is in trying to become (in)famous by deliberately convincing the universe of something that's both patently untrue and long known to be so. Roger Patterson was so dedicated to its art as to actually pull it off and 50 years later we're still talking about him, good, bad or indifferent. 50 years from now Todd Standing won't even be a footnote in a failed Pendant Publishing book of failed footnotes.

The mere acknowledgement of a species does not itself compel CDFW to investigate Bigfoot.

Nor does it suddenly convey scientific validity on Petitioner's allegedly otherwise valid research. I suspect that ordered relief must actually have some rational chance of curing the Petitioner's injury.

Quote:

CDFW can’t do laboratory studies without a specimen.

And I suspect they already have a fine laboratory for conducting mandated studies on whatever species are brought to it. So it would seem the agency is complying with the law. I don't read the law as requiring a special lab for each species, real or imaginary.

Quote:

Petitioner claims injury and denial of rights not related to the cause of action and requests relief that Respondent is not legally required to perform and which the court could not grant anyway under an ordinary mandate. The court will give the petition the boot. It won’t get past arguing the legal validity of the petition.

I wouldn't be surprised if that's what happens. I can see why no other lawyers want in on this; it looks like a legal train wreck to me. Petitioner seems to claim denial of a right that doesn't exist: no one is entitled a false reputation. If the scientific community doesn't take her seriously, that's not the state's problem.

^^^ I think this is probably the heart of the matter. Both the publicity of filing it (which they claimed publicly when they "filed") and then its forthcoming dismissal are the true intentions here. Both instances being perfect cheap set-ups for more publicity. From the now debunked school of any publicity is good publicity. But it's what brain damaged morons with too much money and an insufferable dedication to pulling the wool over the rest of the world's eyes would do.

I'm not sure it's always clear what a serious perversion it is in trying to become (in)famous by deliberately convincing the universe of something that's both patently untrue and long known to be so. Roger Patterson was so dedicated to its art as to actually pull it off and 50 years later we're still talking about him, good, bad or indifferent. 50 years from now Todd Standing won't even be a footnote in a failed Pendant Publishing book of failed footnotes.

In all seriousness it more likely that they are stupid enough to actually believe the **** they disgorge from their "brains" and mouths!!!!

__________________There is no problem so great that it cannot be fixed by small explosives carefully placed.

In all seriousness it more likely that they are stupid enough to actually believe the **** they disgorge from their "brains" and mouths!!!!

Which IMO is probably the single biggest Bigfoot question skeptics as a group still have serious trouble with. Do Bigfooters truly believe all the insanity or are they just playing a big game? I think it's split probably 50/50 here. I've been clear that I think they're all knowing liars role players in a weird game that has only a single impossible way to actually win. Unless their goal is just to make us believe they're really out there looking for Bigfoot in backwater Oklahoma but they're not. Okay. Do they get an Oscar®?! And no doubt there's true believers, but the big wigs of Bigfootdom making all the noise absolutely know there's no F&B beast. Meldrum, Moneymaker, Standing, Gimlin, Bilbo Fayfay etc. And yes there is a beast, but you'll never see it.

I suspect that ordered relief must actually have some rational chance of curing the Petitioner's injury.

The petitioner must have a beneficial interest in the performance of the act being compelled beyond an interest held by the public at large. They have to be personally affected. They must have a direct and substantial interest that the writ of mandate would protect. A writ should not be issued to vindicate abstract claims or where the writ would be unavailing. The writ must promote substantial justice. That means it has to remedy some injustice faced by the petitioner.

Originally Posted by JayUtah

And I suspect they already have a fine laboratory for conducting mandated studies on whatever species are brought to it. So it would seem the agency is complying with the law. I don't read the law as requiring a special lab for each species, real or imaginary.

CDFW's Wildlife Investigations Laboratory was established in 1941, and is mandated by Fish and Willdife Code Section 1008 to conduct wildlife disease investigations. A writ should not control discretionary decisions in ministerial duties unless the decisions are arbitrary, capricious, or entirely lacking in evidentiary support. For example, an agency fixes small pot holes in a rich neighborhood while doing nothing about much larger pot holes in a poor neighborhood.

Originally Posted by JayUtah

Petitioner seems to claim denial of a right that doesn't exist: no one is entitled a false reputation. If the scientific community doesn't take her seriously, that's not the state's problem.

It is even simpler than that. The petitioner needs to point to a law that “specifically” says the agency must do something, demonstrate that the agency isn’t doing it, explain how he or she is impacted by the agency not doing it, and request a writ to compel the agency to do what the law specifically says. The rights of the petitioner are only relevant to the duty specifically required by law in establishing the petitioner’s interest and the effect of the writ to remedy the complaint.

If she were to cite the First Amendment as a cause of action to her free speech claim, that would be different, but it would also be invalid…and ridiculous.

__________________Heaven forbid someone reads these words and claims to be adversely affected by them, thus ensuring a barrage of lawsuits filed under the guise of protecting the unknowing victims who were stupid enough to read this and believe it! - Kevin Trudeau

Short of his outright confession I'm not sure how much clearer it could be that this case isn't actually about arguing for the existence of a real species in a real courtroom with a real judge. It's about the 'publicity and opportunity' that can be generated by being allowed to pretend you are. Every time somebody files a lawsuit there's a seeming instant credibility given to the plaintiff because why would he file a suit if he didn't have a case?! There's a lot of reasons and most of them aren't righteous. Todd Standing paid some flunky $500 to write it up and (say) a $250 filing fee. $750 for $750,000 worth of publicity. He's gotta do it like that if he wants Hollywood to notice him. Creativity counts.

INT. STEVEN SPIELBERG'S OFFICE - DAY

As TODD enters STEVEN'S office he grabs several papers out of a file folder held in his other hand and throws them down on his desk.

TODD
(pointing at papers)
Look what I did Steve-O, I had the courts working overtime to stifle my barrage of lawsuits for fear the masses would revolt if they knew the truth...(beat)...that I'm a filmmaker, not a scientist.
(laughs out loud)

STEVEN
(back turned to TODD)
Yes, pretty impressive. Can I get you some gefilte fish?

I wonder if California will sue for attorney’s fees after the petition is denied. They might. The link to Standing could establish that the petition was filed for an improper purpose. A writ of mandate is an extraordinary option only used when no other remedy is available.

The petition could be construed as frivolous because it makes no mention of the Petitioner even attempting to notify the Respondents of the existence of Bigfoot. It does not say when or how the Respondents denied the existence of Bigfoot. It does not say she ever contacts the Respondents. It makes no mention of her previous sighting where she contacted “authorities” who told her it was a bear. It could be argued that this demonstrates that there has been no attempt to remedy the matter and that the petition was therefore filed for some other improper purpose.

The only thing in the petition is this enigmatic statement:

Quote:

Petitioner asserts that Respondents committed an abuse of process by not treating her fairly, which includes Respondents’ not putting any decision or otherwise concerning Sasquatch in writing to her.

I don’t even know what that means.

__________________Heaven forbid someone reads these words and claims to be adversely affected by them, thus ensuring a barrage of lawsuits filed under the guise of protecting the unknowing victims who were stupid enough to read this and believe it! - Kevin Trudeau

Thanks for the link, I'm on page eighteen and am hooked. My favorite part so far is his plan to hard mount spotting scopes to his Bigfoot hunting boat. Anyone who has looked through a pair of binoculars and tried to keep them steady, would know that is one of the stupidest ideas ever.

Reading back on that old Creekfreak thread, i feel like The Sarge (William Parcher), Griff (LTC8KC) & Zab (Drew), from the Big Red One.

Are we the only ones left?

__________________"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker
"I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325
Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic

Oh, the pitfalls of binary thinking! (Or as I like to refer to it as: The Number One Crippler of Young Adults). And here it is again.

As I've proposed up-thread, the tertiary is a completely satisfactory and possible outcome here. Obviously, a type specimen leads to an administrative concession of existence (at least in the state or province where the species is found...you could still expect state governments to claim, "Well, it might exist THERE, but there is no proof it exists HERE...) but the door needs to be left open for the possibility that the species could get provisional recognition through civil actions like this and still not have a type specimen G. and s. classification. I've yet to have anyone clearly explain to me why this is not possible. Fact is, it is possible. The law is full of those types of conclusions, as I've already mentioned.

__________________Looking forward to the Trump Presidential Library. A putting green. Recipes for chocolate cake. A live Twitter feed for visitors to post on. A little black book w the phone numbers of porn stars. You're in and out in five minutes.

__________________"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker
"I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325
Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic

Wow. I certainly don't see where any state anywhere has made an "administrative concession" of the existence of a biological species. That's not something governments do, in my experience. It looks like he's trying to equivocate from administrative notice that an already-known species may or may not occupy its jurisdiction, a completely separate question.

Wow. I certainly don't see where any state anywhere has made an "administrative concession" of the existence of a biological species. That's not something governments do, in my experience. It looks like he's trying to equivocate from administrative notice that an already-known species may or may not occupy its jurisdiction, a completely separate question.

The mindless disconnect coming from their real or contrived pretension that it's an 'already-known' species. "But I saw it, why doesn't the government believe me?"

Its is starting now. I have been followed by either a black or white SUV and two men come to my house one stands outside of his truck and one comes to my door. The other day I was coming home and as I was turning a left into my driveway a black looking police car drove up and just stared me down and he was wearing a red and black plaid shirt and he gave me the worst look anyone could ever give so at that point he starts moving forward well I'm going to turn around to follow him and at that point he sped off in front of my house to the point where the wheels turned.

This truck was following me about 2 feet behind my car and what I did is I made a very quick turn to the point where I turned my car around and followed him and this was his license plate. When he noticed what I did and I was right behind him taking pictures of his car he sped off about 90 miles an hour in my little small town.

Includes photos of Men in Black and extremely super duper sneaky vehicle.

Yeah that jayjeti guy is one of bigfootery's best and brightest. He's a very active poster on NL's SRA forum. Perhaps the only poster.

__________________Looking forward to the Trump Presidential Library. A putting green. Recipes for chocolate cake. A live Twitter feed for visitors to post on. A little black book w the phone numbers of porn stars. You're in and out in five minutes.

What is the expression Norseman? 'When a man holds a hammer, everything he sees looks like a nail"? You might be holding the "existence" hammer.

Look, I realize your sine qua non, plus ultra is to get a body to confirm existence. It is not mine (not that I would treat that as bad news, on the contrary) and it is not necessarily the motivation of all who post and read here. There are ways out of that, if you want it. My post above was just an explanation of how some might move to looking at it through a different lens, and allow us to write a different menu for predicted outcomes. It is neither an outcome that confirms existence, or disproves it. It is a useful approach, a third way. It takes us above and beyond the zero-sum debate that seems to eat up most of the discussion around here. The reason I know it is useful is because neither the hard-core proponents or the dyed-in-the-wool opponents find it an entirely satisfying outcome. That tells me something.

So this: The state of California declares there is insufficient evidence to declare if BF does, or does not, exist with any degree of reasonable certainty, BUT, given the compelling evidence for existence, the possibility cannot be entirely dismissed when matters of its citizens' safety and welfare are concerned. While this court is not able to grant all the relief requested by the Petitioner, it is ORDERED...

Channeling his inner DWA.

__________________Looking forward to the Trump Presidential Library. A putting green. Recipes for chocolate cake. A live Twitter feed for visitors to post on. A little black book w the phone numbers of porn stars. You're in and out in five minutes.

Consistent failure to persuade zoologists or anthropologists to investigate Sasquatch phenomena may be explained by the fact that most of the available evidence consists of eyewitness testimony, which scientists are not trained or accustomed to deal with. The professionals who are trained to evaluate testimony, and who take it very seriously, are lawyers. Since lawyers also dominate the political scene, where the purse strings of scientific research are held, the best way to achieve a scientific investigation may be to convince the lawyers first. To this end, a campaign for a judicial or legislative inquiry into the existing Sasquatch evidence is advocated.

Consistent failure to persuade zoologists or anthropologists to investigate Sasquatch phenomena may be explained by the fact that most of the available evidence consists of eyewitness testimony, which scientists are not trained or accustomed to deal with. The professionals who are trained to evaluate testimony, and who take it very seriously, are lawyers. Since lawyers also dominate the political scene, where the purse strings of scientific research are held, the best way to achieve a scientific investigation may be to convince the lawyers first. To this end, a campaign for a judicial or legislative inquiry into the existing Sasquatch evidence is advocated.

__________________Looking forward to the Trump Presidential Library. A putting green. Recipes for chocolate cake. A live Twitter feed for visitors to post on. A little black book w the phone numbers of porn stars. You're in and out in five minutes.

The other professionals who are trained to evaluate testimony are psychologists.

__________________"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett

Consistent failure to persuade zoologists or anthropologists to investigate Sasquatch phenomena may be explained by the fact that most of the available evidence consists of eyewitness testimony which scientists are not trained or accustomed to deal with. The professionals who are trained to evaluate testimony, and who take it very seriously, are lawyers. Since lawyers also dominate the political scene, where the purse strings of scientific research are held, the best way to achieve a scientific investigation may be to convince the lawyers first. To this end, a campaign for a judicial or legislative inquiry into the existing Sasquatch evidence is advocated.

At the same time, numerous psychological studies have shown that human beings are not very good at identifying people they saw only once for a relatively short period of time. The studies reveal error rates of as high as fifty percent — a frightening statistic given that many convictions may be based largely or solely on such testimony.

Between the ones in it for the $$/notoriety and the ones who arent quite all there so to say, and the ones that saw 'something shaggy briefly dozens of meters away', better would be actual real evidence- of which we have exactly..... none

__________________It's a kind of a strawman thing in that it's exactly a strawman thing. Loss Leader

'When you're born into this world, you're given a ticket to the freak show. If you're born in America you get a front row seat.' George Carlin

Remember when Historian (Neil) accused people of being NSA moles, whose job was to spread falsehoods about the existence of Bigfoot, so people would stop looking?

What thread was that?

__________________"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker
"I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325
Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic

The other professionals who are trained to evaluate testimony are psychologists.

And some such as Elizabeth Loftus have transformed our understanding of the reliability of eyewitness testimony, especially as it pertains to the law. The law requires human testimony because photographs can't be cross-examined, not because lawyers trust human testimony. In fact, a proper lawyer is more interested in obtaining a favorable outcome for his client than in the abstract pursuit of truth. He has a duty to promote evidence toward that end despite its objective reliability, and to do his best to discredit evidence against that end. A lawyer will happily argue the existence of Bigfoot regardless of whether he personally believes in it, if there's a professional arrangement for him to do so.

This truck was following me about 2 feet behind my car and what I did is I made a very quick turn to the point where I turned my car around and followed him and this was his license plate. When he noticed what I did and I was right behind him taking pictures of his car he sped off about 90 miles an hour in my little small town.

This is of course a lie. She made up this story. The vehicle did not drive 90 mph through her little town after seeing her perform a position switcheroo.

She's not incorrect or deluded or exaggerating. She's a fabricator. This is almost certainly also true about her Bigfoot encounter stories. She made them up. She didn't see a bear in a tree and then think she was seeing Bigfoot. She just made it up.

Todd Standing does the same thing. He's not mistaken or deluded - he's a liar. He creates the fake Bigfoots in his photos. So there is no mistake involved.

Claudia and Todd are submitting a lawsuit that is based on their lies. Not mistakes or delusion or gullibility. This is genuine flat out lying. They are doing this with the confidence that they will not actually be punished for bringing lies in front of the California judiciary.

__________________Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.

It was impossible to click on that thread without saying it out loud...

Bungle in the Jeh-nuggle.

__________________"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker
"I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325
Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic