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Hi everyone...I don't know exactly where I am going with this post, but I do know I feel like I have to "do something" and I feel completely paralyzed in RL.

My BH and I are almost 4 years from D Day and I unfortunately have just faced the fact that although I thought we were, we are NOT in R. My BH has been going through the motions for four years. I have been waiting, hoping that he could or would get through the pain and we could get past my LTA TOGETHER.

I know some have seen my posts, that I have always felt my BH was stuck. He would not go to IC, only MC when I "annoyed" him about it. I have gone to IC and now the past few weeks I had convinced him that we NEED MC, so we have been going for the past 2 months (4 sessions total). I have read here on SI EVERY day, I do not have the energy to post much because it feels like I barely have energy for much of anything. I don't talk to my two best girl friends any more, hardly ever because I have been putting ALL my energy into making my BH feel safe and working on our M. I have ordered and read infidelity books, I have tried to share them with my BH, he only looks at a few pages and that is it. He knows I am on SI and he has read a few posts I have shown him but he NEVER goes on alone. I tell him all the time what he was/is feeling is normal and he is not alone and that there are many great people here that can help and that are going through the same thing.

So here we are. We talked yesterday because he is again in that "robotic" stage, he is again going through the motions, but he is not "here". I have told him that for the past four years that I feel like a blob of goop that is throwing myself at him, but it feels like I hit a wall and slide down. All my efforts don't make a different. I told him if he could give me any slight word that maybe there is the smallest chance for us then I would continue 110%, but if I am just doing it for nothing then I have nothing left to give, that I haven't given. I don't have any more ideas of how to "make him happy". He said he wants to be happy. I told him that doesn't involve me, that it has to come from him and if he keeps seeing "happy" as a destination at point A then he has to have some idea of how to get there from point B. He said he doesn't.

He told me yesterday that the problem was me. He said we had a good M, that he did everything for me, he "busted his ass" that I was able to stay home (to be a mother to our DD) and I shouldn't take it personally when he yells at me, or curses at me or calls me horrendous names (note he HAS NOT called me a name in about 9 months now). He says I am too sensitive and I take it too personally, that is MY issue and that is my lack of self esteem. I told him that my A was completely on me. That my unhappiness lead me down a horrible path. My coping skills were disgusting. I should have handled our M issues in a better way, not run from them.

I told him that I believe this was a DEALBREAKER for him, in the middle of all my tears, but that he is afraid to say it. He is afraid to leave me. He didn't say a word. He didn't protest at all. So I feel like I have my answer.

I post this to all you wise people who have been where we are both BS and WS. Am I missing something? Is there something else I haven't tried? We have so many issues in our M, even pre M that STILL have not been corrected (his angry outbursts that I can no longer excuse as "it's because of my A" because he was the same way BEFORE my A. I don't know how much longer I can hang in. I hope someone can steer me toward yet another hope to save my M.

Posts: 298 | Registered: Feb 2012

wifehad5♂ 15162Member # 15162

Posted: 8:46 AM, September 17th (Tuesday), 2013

I'm sorry you're hurting today.

I just want to comment on one thing in your post. I see you diagnosing him and telling him what he's feeling and what he needs to do. That's not your job. He's a big boy and can do this for himself if he chooses.

If he doesn't, you can decide you can't live like this anymore, but you can't heal him.

When you ask him what he wants, what does he say?

FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live

Posts: 39066 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan

RSEB♀ 34728Member # 34728

Posted: 9:08 AM, September 17th (Tuesday), 2013

wifehad5,

Hi, thank you for your words. I know I am still at times "trying to help him heal" but I have worked very hard to let go of the outcome. I am also working on forgiving myself for the complete anguish I have brought on him.

When I asked him, he said that I would have to be the one to say it's over because he is too afraid and that he doesn't know where he would go. I know that is not a healthy outlook. He needs to be secure in himself (as do I) to know that he can and will do it by himself and that has to come from HIM and his work in HIS journey. I know my actions put him in this predicament, but he has to figure his way out.

The answer he gave, though sounding indecisive is exactly the opposite and is SCREAMING at me that he doesn't love me anymore.

What do I do with his answer? If feel as if I tell him that it is better for him to move on and that he will be okay and that maybe one day he will find happiness and that is what I want for him, that he will take that as me giving up and not REALLY loving him.

I am SO confused and hopeless today

Posts: 298 | Registered: Feb 2012

uncertainone♀ 28108Member # 28108

Posted: 9:19 AM, September 17th (Tuesday), 2013

When I asked him, he said that I would have to be the one to say it's over because he is too afraid and that he doesn't know where he would go.

Yep. He's feeling what many people do. The "just divorce" ain't so "just".

RSEB, you only have what your reality is right now. Can you live this way? Is he the only one using fear to make choices?

This isn't about him. It's about you and the life you're choosing. My ex didn't want to divorce either. I knew it was the right choice for me. It has been, no question.

"If feel as if I tell him that it is better for him to move on and that he will be okay and that maybe one day he will find happiness and that is what I want for him"

You have to answer this question for you. 3 years before my affair, my BS came to me with the idea of separation. She was not happy, I was not happy, but she actually was the brave one and talked to me about a separation. I was too scared to even talk about it, and 3 years later I had an A, and now we are separated. She still blames herself a little that she didnt go through with it, thinking things would have turned out better. Be brave, do whats right for you.

and,

These are my thoughts. On SI you always hear the BSs say to watch the WSs' actions, not listen to their words. To me it sounds like he is showing you through his actions what he wants.

RSEB - I am sorry you are in pain. By looking at your earlier posts, it seems that you have been unhappy for quite some time after your DD.

If you are reconciling, your husband has the right to the expectation (sorry for the word twist) of you doing everything you can to make him feel safe and loved. He does not have the right to verbally abuse you and belittle you, especially in front of your children.

I might be stating the obvious, but I believe that that could be an indication that he is still very angry for your affair. I don't know any other details, but the length of it could be a (major) compounding factor for his anger and inability to break the cycle of thoughts, images, feelings.

When he said that you are the one who needs to initiate divorce, maybe he needs to know that he should initiate divorce if that is what he wants and that until you decide to give up, you will do your best to save the marriage (if that is what you want).

The other side of the coin is that you have to face the possibility that he might never get over it in a way that would allow him to "function normally" in your relationship. You need to ask yourself if you are willing or ready to accept that new reality. Is that healthy for your children?

Best of luck to you.

Me BS 48 - Her WS 39
DDay 7/5/10 1/yr EA/PA
DS1 12 DS2 8

Posts: 131 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: ChiLand

RSEB♀ 34728Member # 34728

Posted: 11:15 AM, September 17th (Tuesday), 2013

bad choice

These are my thoughts. On SI you always hear the BSs say to watch the WSs' actions, not listen to their words. To me it sounds like he is showing you through his actions what he wants.

Reading that felt like I had been stabbed right in my heart. I had to log off right away, I am at work and couldn't contain myself.

Frankier

I might be stating the obvious, but I believe that that could be an indication that he is still very angry for your affair. I don't know any other details, but the length of it could be a (major) compounding factor for his anger and inability to break the cycle of thoughts, images, feelings.

When he said that you are the one who needs to initiate divorce, maybe he needs to know that he should initiate divorce if that is what he wants and that until you decide to give up, you will do your best to save the marriage (if that is what you want).

Yes he is quite angry...I always feel that under the surface..problem is he has content, I won't say happy monments as well. For Gods Sake he was looking at homes in NC for us to possibly move to. I asked him why he even suggested that. He doesn't answer.

My gut is telling me he wishes he could just get over it. He said yesterday that I have SO many loveable qualities, so why can't it be THAT easy. I know he keeps wishing, but wishing doesn't make it so.

He has a good heart, he has good family thoughts, he came from a broken home and I know he feels indebted to me to stay with us, but I tell him that isn't a reason to stay. He tells me that the "right answer maybe can't be made through emotions (of being in love with me or not) it should be based on what is the right thing to do.

Posts: 298 | Registered: Feb 2012

AFrayedKnot♂ 36622Member # 36622

Posted: 11:35 AM, September 17th (Tuesday), 2013

What are the two of you doing for fun? What new memories are you building?

Are you speaking his love language?

BS 40
fWS 37 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2742 | Registered: Aug 2012

badchoice♂ 35566Member # 35566

Posted: 11:44 AM, September 17th (Tuesday), 2013

I am sorry if my post upset you.

I didn't mean to do so, I was just making an observation.

Believe me, I have been in your shoes, and know how painful this is. I really hope you two can work this out.

Again, I am sorry, and maybe I should have been a little more gentle.

Me: fWH/BH 46

Separated transitioning to D

Posts: 730 | Registered: May 2012 | From: L.A.

Darkness Falls♀ 27879Member # 27879

Posted: 11:50 AM, September 17th (Tuesday), 2013

He tells me that the "right answer maybe can't be made through emotions (of being in love with me or not) it should be based on what is the right thing to do.

There is something to be said for this. If this is how he truly feels, I think it shows good character on his part.

However, if that ^ is not enough for you to wish to remain married, I do not believe that shows "bad" character on YOUR part. For some couples, a business-arrangement marriage (for lack of a better term) works. For others, it doesn't.

I was a child of parents who had a lot of marital troubles and who modeled an unhealthy relationship for years, yet chose to "stay together for the kids." My rational side knows that they did this out of great personal sacrifice on both their parts, and out of a sense of duty toward my brother and me, and I admire them for that. I am certainly not that selfless. But my emotional side grieves for my father, who probably hadn't had a happy day in his marriage for a good 15-20 years before his death in 2011, and for my mother, who is 63 years old and who is alone and unhappy to this day (and had been for decades) and who had long since become bitter because of it.

I'm not presuming to say that your M is that way. I'm not suggesting you file for D, or push your H to file. I can only offer my sorrow that you are in this situation, and I can imagine how hard it is. I have read a few of your posts and I can tell how hard you've worked and are working on your marriage and yourself.

If feel as if I tell him that it is better for him to move on and that he will be okay and that maybe one day he will find happiness and that is what I want for him, that he will take that as me giving up and not REALLY loving him.

Kind of a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation there. But that is what I did in my case. I didn't fight the D; I didn't beg or plead my case; hell, I filled out the papers myself for him---not because I wanted out of the M but because I wanted only to do right by him since I was at fault and D was what he wanted at that time. He regrets it now, FWIW, but what's done is done and I still feel I made the right decision. To this day I don't know how he truly feels about that, nor do I know whether his family and our friends think I just didn't love him enough to try to reconcile (although I assume they know the D was his choice). All I know is I took so much control away from him with the A; I wanted him to have back as much of it as I could provide.

Again, NOT telling you that D is the right thing to do. I'm sorry you're hurting and I wish I knew what to say to make it better.

Me: XWS, 33, 5-month EA/PA in '09-'10
Husband: XBS, 45
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

We remarried in 2014

Formerly heartbroken0903

Posts: 2426 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: Central Florida

RSEB♀ 34728Member # 34728

Posted: 11:50 AM, September 17th (Tuesday), 2013

Bad choice,

Don't be silly, your words were fine...they just hit me very close to home...right In the kitchen apparently

And UPDATE...now my BH just texted me and suggested we go away on our family planned vacation to Jamaica "just by ourselves" to have good quality time...MY HEAD IS SPINNING...I'm having such a hard time keeping up

D-day April 2005, R.
Me-BS 37
Him-FWH 37, 8 month EA/PA with coworker. Married 2 yrs at the time.
2 kiddos after D-day, Married 11 years.

Posts: 262 | Registered: Jul 2005

uncertainone♀ 28108Member # 28108

Posted: 12:16 PM, September 17th (Tuesday), 2013

If he wanted a divorce, he would tell you

Completely disagree with this. You can even see that here. If the resources were different they'd bounce like a ball. If family viewed things differently, social pressure, kids. Sometimes being there is simply a geographical fact. Nothing else.

you know, it's very possible he is so damn conflicted that even HE can't think straight.

I feel as if I tell him that it is better for him to move on and that he will be okay and that maybe one day he will find happiness and that is what I want for him, that he will take that as me giving up and not REALLY loving him.

Why don't you just talk to him? Say these exact words - you can't read his mind, nor should you try.

FWW - 41
"Don't think first about the risks of speaking up. Think first about the risks of not speaking up." ~ Kerry Patterson

Posts: 6072 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....

heforgotme♀ 38391Member # 38391

Posted: 12:27 PM, September 17th (Tuesday), 2013

HI RSEB.

I don't know quite how to say this, so I'm just going to jump in with both feet here. It seems the dynamic between you and your BH is unhealthy. And the thing I would try to consider in your shoes is whether it EVER WAS.

He was unfaithful before you were married. And his attitude was, Get over it or get out (if I remember correctly). His angry outbursts have been an issue for your entire relationship. I'm sure there are other issues as well, but I mention these two in particular bc they give me the impression that he is just not willing to do his part in this relationship.

And then came your A and now it seems everything that's wrong gets blamed on that. Just like an A can't be blamed on the issues in a relationship, all those pre-existing issues can't be blamed on the A either. We all know of course that the A has to be dealt with first. But as far as I can tell he seems unwillingly to work through it with you.

Please forgive me if I have misinterpreted any of this. I wish I could be more encouraging, but I can't think of any other option that you haven't already tried. Imo, you have worked exceptionally hard at this.

I'll be pulling for you no matter what you decide.

D-Day 11/15/12
5 month PA
Married 20 years, 3 kids
All good is hard. All evil is easy. Dying, losing, cheating, and mediocrity is easy. Stay away from easy.
- Scott Alexander
It was the day I thought I'd never get through - Daughtry

Posts: 1101 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: FL

jo2love♀ 31528Member # 31528

Posted: 1:25 PM, September 17th (Tuesday), 2013

so_lost -

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It would seem his obsession about your LTA has crystallized and he can't escape the hole he has dug for himself. Round and round with the same thought processes and not being able to embrace a fresh approach and let go of these obsessive ideas.

Could be that 6 years of your affair is difficult to accept and he is stuck between a rock and a hard place; he wants some kind of justice but he is afraid to apply it, because that may involve separation, which is even more unpleasant than this morbid suffering.

4 years is long enough. Some action needs to be taken to drag him out of this cycle of grief and into the beginnings of acceptance. Love isn't the issue right now; he just needs to escape from his personal black hole and accept the need to look forward instead of back. You sadly withdrawing and letting him know that separation is imminent; that the road ahead is solitary; may very well wake him up to what he stands to lose. The years of your life are slipping by and if he can't cure himself in the marriage, then he will need to heal alone.

Posts: 1978 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC

RSEB♀ 34728Member # 34728

Posted: 7:38 PM, September 17th (Tuesday), 2013

Just quickly I wanted to tell you all I have read your posts...I was busy all afternoon with the kids so I havent had time to post. Now I am on my nook...my DD yook over my laptop lol...and I HATE this keyboard. I will post tomorrow morning when I have some piece and quiet before the kids are up. I am turning in early because I havent slept well f for the past twonights

[This message edited by RSEB at 7:39 PM, September 17th (Tuesday)]

Posts: 298 | Registered: Feb 2012

SandAway♀ 37775Member # 37775

Posted: 8:36 PM, September 17th (Tuesday), 2013

Love isn't the issue right now; he just needs to escape from his personal black hole and accept the need to look forward instead of back. You sadly withdrawing and letting him know that separation is imminent; that the road ahead is solitary; may very well wake him up to what he stands to lose. The years of your life are slipping by and if he can't cure himself in the marriage, then he will need to heal alone.

Well said OK now.

But, I remember my BH telling me long ago, that the longer the A, the longer the healing takes; a 6yr A is 6yrs of R. It seems like an awfully long time, but that is probably what he is thinking about your A...

I think a trip to Jamaica - just the 2 of you - is a great idea. Use it to reconnect. Sometimes you need to get away from the every day dredges of life to really see someone.

So last night went okay. My most reassuring fact is that I was able to schedule a MC session for us tomorrow as opposed to Monday night. When I asked my BH if that worked for him he said he would make it work.

Yes us going to Jamaica alone is a wonderful idea, however we don't have and never have had a baby sitter. We have only always had my Dad watch the kids, and leaving them with him isn't an option. He is working that week when we are set to go away, and he lives 30 minutes away. So my BH said we would just put them in a closet...HA HA HA.

He has often mentioned since our R began that he should start "courting me" again, to start a new and fall in love again..well that went no where and was never mentioned again. He doesn't follow through with those kinds of things. Those are one of the many things we have lost in our M. Yes I could easily arrange a night out and have done that ANY time in our entire M when we do go out alone, but to me is that Courting me?

Someone else posted asking about our Love Languages, yes I have read it, again my BH hasn't, but I did have him take the quiz online. I would like small gifts and loving words, his language is services. He even found a problem with the gift receiving language, he found that superficial and extravagant. Mind you, I don't want jewelry, just a surprise card (which would be amazing) or to stop at the candy store and get me my favorite caramels on his way home from work to let me know he thought of me.

My gut is screaming that you guys are right. He does still love me, he is still torn apart. When he said 'I love you" to me about 2 months ago I lost it and cried like a baby. The next day he told me he could see himself forgiving me. Well I was on top of the world. But as quickly as those two days came, they left and I have not seen any inkling of those moments since. But they kept me hanging in, but yesterday he told me he has nothing to give.

My BH often says that my A has caused him to see the world differently, to set his expectations lower, to not believe that honestly and commitment exist. He second guesses EVERYTHING. This coming from a very strong minded, verbally opinionated man. Our MC has told me that she has never met someone who is so set on black and white. It is extremely hard for my BH to see grey. I know my BH knows I am a good person, he has said so. He has also said that is why he can't wrap his mind around what I did. He can't say that I behaved any differently during my A toward him or the kids then I do now or before my A. He said I have always been and still am a loving, caring and giving wife/mother.
That is also making it extremely difficult for him to understand.

I do realize my A was SIX YEARS long, and we are only at 4 years out. I have never expected him to "be over it". I have a hard time trying to get him to talk about it, or to get any feed back from him about what he needs me to do. I have read on SI many times that a BS wishes their WS would clue in and bring up times to talk or ask what is wrong or what is causing a trigger, and thanks to all the guidance and words I have read here I do ask my BH all those things, unfortunately without any response.

It is very hard to try and work through my own faults and failures as well as him being completely closed off. That is where my desperation comes from.

As you have said, he is in a dark hole and the length of SIX YEARS is a large number to wrap his brain around. I am sure of it, though he won't verbalize it.

I have tried to put myself in his shoes. I KNOW I wouldn't have faired as well. My BH has not been on ANY ADs, he actually went to work the day after DDay, when he caught me and MOM. He has a strength that is unmatched. But with that strength comes that humongous wall that he builds instantaneously. That is what I fear, that he won't ever take it down, no matter how many years of consistent transparency, loving, trustworthy actions I show him. And what hurts me too as one SI member posted is that when my BH had an on and off again A with the same OW for 3 years BEFORE WE WERE MARRIED he told me to "get over it or leave". He didn't even offer an apology until about 2 years ago, when we were already 2 years in to our R. He wouldn't even buy a new mattress for us to sleep on, after I knew they had been there together. These are all things in my mind, that I rarely let myself think about, but when I do, it is extremely hurtful to me. That is a textbook case of how rug sweeping doesn't work and will continue to raise it's ugly head.

So, this morning I awake a little better and a little more rested. I am back on my path to fight a little longer (I think), but I am also changed. I will help my BH in any way he needs me to. I love him and want our M to work, BUT I do know that 4 years is an awful long time to R with someone who continues to put their head in the sand. After a while hitting that brick wall is hard and anyone, even the most remorseful WS has a breaking point. I am fearful of that, I am sad about that, but I am learning that. My journey is not over.