"Knockout"

This is a discussion on "Knockout" within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This reminds me of the punks in CA driving around shooting folks with paintball guns and laughing about it!! They were dumb enough to video ...

This reminds me of the punks in CA driving around shooting folks with paintball guns and laughing about it!! They were dumb enough to video tape themselves doing it. I just don't understand how anybody can get a kick out of doing something like this. Y'all want to talk a good story about what you would do, but in the real world there is little you can do to avoid a sucker punch, and by the time you come to your senses they are long gone. Unless you totally avoid people in general, this is just something else we take our chances on by going out in public. It may be an Ohio thing now, but when kids hear about it in other states, guess what??

A similar event happened to me in Tijuana several years ago. A group of us Marines were crossing back over into the US after a hard night and out of nowhere this fist comes from around the right side of my head and crashes into my face. Out of the corner of my eye - as I was falling onto my arse - I see about 5-6 guys running across the border checkpoint. They had run up behind us, hit me, and continued on... much like a bombing run.

About 8 of my friends gave chase while the other two stayed and helped me up. About 15 minutes later they all came back and said that they turned a corner into a parking lot while chasing these guys and came face-to-face with about 30 more waiting... so they wisely popped smoke and egressed.

Point is - if it happens to you, be advised: where there is one, there is two. Where there are two, there will be more.

... use of only fists would most certainly draw the most extreme criticism for the CC'er

Originally Posted by ccw9mm

As the above example illustrates, even this can be deadly. Don't underestimate the power of a punch, a kick, or a simple fall from 5ft (head to concrete). I can kill. Defending against such actions and responding accordingly is not a crime.

ccw9mm,
I agree with you completely. My comment was not intended to imply that one shouldn't treat the situation as a threat of death or refuse to use deadly force against the threat. The point I intended to make was that in today's environment the press, the anti-gunners, and an aggressive prosecuting attorney would use the ages of the thugs, and their lack of any weapons other than their fists in order to paint the CC'r as using excessive force against children. We all know that would be BS, but it would make the defense of the shooter much more difficult than if the thugs had been older and in possession of what is generally accepted by the public as dangerous weapons.

"Society never advances. It recedes as fast on one side as it gains on the other. It undergoes continual change; but this change is not [an improvement]. For everything that is given, something is taken." Ralph Waldo Emerson

The 15-year-old who grabbed $23 from the pockets of a Hilltop man killed by an accomplice’s punch admitted to a delinquency count of involuntary manslaughter yesterday.

Elijah Nichols now could face three years in lockup at the Department of Youth Services.

Also yesterday, Franklin County Juvenile Court Judge Chris Geer sent one of Nichols’ co-defendants, Joshua Conley, to Youth Services for at least a year. Conley, 14, had earlier admitted to a delinquency count of involuntary manslaughter.

Nichols and Conley were with Douglas Bailey, 13, and Emanuel Jackson, 18, the night of Sept. 1, when police say Jackson led them in the attack on Terry Ward, 43.

Police say Jackson admitted to throwing the punch and robbing Ward. But last month, Jackson was ruled incompetent to stand trial. He is in a mental-health center receiving treatment. Authorities hope to try him later this year.

A surveillance camera from a nearby bar showed the four chase Ward behind the Lutheran Social Services food pantry on Sullivant and Oakley avenues. Jackson threw a punch and Ward dropped, hitting his head on the pavement, police said. The Franklin County coroner said Ward died of brain injuries.

In court yesterday, Ward’s wife, Kimberly, told Conley that her 3-year-old son Dylan still wonders when his daddy is coming home. "Now, Dylan and I have to live without this man we loved so deeply."

Ward’s sister, Diane Brewer, told Conley she talks to her brother at his headstone. "I hope you never know what that’s like." She thanked Conley’s parents for having him turn himself in when they recognized his clothing on the videotape of the attack shown on TV. Brewer then angrily made disparaging remarks about the four involved in her brother’s death.

Ward’s relatives will have a chance to speak again at Nichols’ sentencing, set for March 9. Nichols’ attorney and prosecutors are recommending he serve at least three years at Youth Services. Nichols’ parents also recognized him from the videotape and had him turn himself in.

Bailey, 13, who pleaded to a delinquency count of felonious assault, has yet to be sentenced. Prosecutors have recommended he be placed on probation.

So the 13 year old gets a year probation, the 14 year old one year, the 15 year old maybe 3 years, and the 18 year old is currently incompetent to stand trail. Those sentences are a joke, I don't kill how young the kids are, they actively took part in killing a man. Do you think his family is happy with those results?

I have been trying to think about the best way to defend against this. Pulling your weapon before it is clear they are going to attack you isn't really something you can do, and if they get a good sucker punch in, its too late, and then they very well could have your weapon if ur KO'ed.

The point I intended to make was that in today's environment the press, the anti-gunners, and an aggressive prosecuting attorney would use the ages of the thugs, and their lack of any weapons other than their fists in order to paint the CC'r as using excessive force against children.

I hear you.

As Ayoob reminds, in his training: CYA = can you articulate the conditions that existed, the risks that existed, the rationale for the actions you took? It comes down to that, and how "expert" those impressions and facts can be. (ie, physics doesn't change by the whim of an anti; a gang of four+ sixteen year old thugs still constitutes a large disparity of force; and there are only so many effective responses to a violent attack ... no matter who perpetrates the attack.)

Most people don't realize the most dangerous part of a street fight (not involving weapons) is the concrete. For example DON'T slam someone on the concrete unless you are facing a lethal threat (as in a street fight). Many people have died from a move such as a slam or body drop that would normally not have permanant injuries on a mat, but when done on concrete combined with the wiplash effect (sometimes happens, sometimes not) it can easily kill someone.