The first time? Cao Cao conquered and sacked Tao Qian's capital, ran out of food, and sacked three counties on the way back.The second time? Cao Cao plundered two of Xu's five commanderies, only being forced to turn back due to Zhang Miao and Lu Bu's rebellion.

Nothing I've seen suggests Tao Qian is as good as Liu Bei in leading an army or a province, so if he lived a few more years I imagine he would be fully conquered and executed.

Unless I specifically say otherwise, assume I am talking about historical Three Kingdoms, and not the novel.

What I'm thinking of is writing something akin to Andrew Chittick's "The Life and Legacy of Liu Biao: Governor, Warlord, and Imperial Pretender in Late Han China" for Tao Qian. The best I can, anyways.

Alone I lean under the wispy shade of an aged tree,Scornfully I raise to parted lips a cup of warm wine,Longingly I cast an empty vessel aside those exposed roots,And leave behind forgotten memories and forsaken dreams.

Alone I lean under the wispy shade of an aged tree,Scornfully I raise to parted lips a cup of warm wine,Longingly I cast an empty vessel aside those exposed roots,And leave behind forgotten memories and forsaken dreams.

Is it worth registering to site (says book would be free but for how long, any other 3k books there?) and linking to kongming encyclopaedia?

“You, are a rebellious son who abandoned his father. You are a cruel brigand who murdered his lord. How can Heaven and Earth put up with you for long? And unless you die soon, how can you face the sight of men?”

Is it worth registering to site (says book would be free but for how long, any other 3k books there?) and linking to kongming encyclopaedia?

JSTOR is a Political Science Journal aggregate that is sold to universities. It has some information on the Three Kingdoms, but it is not especially history focused, let alone Chinese history. I have a few dozen downloaded, which was everything they had when I was looking, so if you want I can email a couple to you so you can see if you want it.

Howard L Goodman wrote a History of Court Lyrics in the Wei-Jin Court that is 50 pages.He teamed up with someone else to write 20 pages on the Di-Flute and match-pitching in 3rd century ChinaRafe de Crespigny and MIranda Brown wrote 35 pages on Adoption in the Han DynastyThere's 20 pages on Red Cliff artJoe Cutter wrote 30 pages on Cao Zhi's symposium poetry, 10 more on his three good men poemGoodman wrote 30 pages on Daoism and the Founding of the Wei DynastyThere's 50 pages on the Han's understanding of Central AsiaGoodman wrote 75 pages on Polymaths from 100 AD to 300 ADMichael Loewe wrote 10 pages on China's relationship to Central Asia from 260-290 ADJoe Cutter writes 8 pages on the death of Cao Zhang There's 15 pages on Du Fu's commentary of Zhuge LiangThere's about the same on "Ho Ch'ü-fei and Chu Hsi on Chu-ko Liang as a "Scholar-General" written by the same guy (Hoyt Tillman)There's almost 20 pages on Zhuge Liang legendsThere's 15 pages devoted to four poems made by Liu Zhen towards Cao PiKilligrew wrote 15 pages on, I quote, "THE ROLE OF THE MOU-SHI IN THE SANGUO ZHI"Chittick wrote over 20 pages on Naval Warfare in early medieval China (Red Cliff references are included)Rafe wrote 40 pages on "Politics and Philosophy under the Government of Emperor Huan 159-168 A.D."There's almost 40 pages on Ying Qu, a Jian'an calligrapher who had ties with the Xiahou family, and his poetic legacyGoodman and someone else spent over 30 pages on "rethinking Kinsmanship" from the Han to the Six Dynasties.Farmer wrote 40 pages on Qiao Zhou called "Rotten Pedant" (which should be free in the other thread)Goodman wrote another 30 pages on "party music"There's almost 25 pages devoted to Guan Yu's sexualityThere's a 15 page book review of The Talent of ShuThere's over 15 pages by Goodman on a calligrapher named "Chung Yu" who died in the early Wei court.The campaigns of Cao Cao, only 8 pages, is in the public domain and done by a military specialistCutter wrote 6 pages on Zhen Ji's deathThere's 35 pages on Zhang Fei legendsThere's 40 pages on Korean expansion using the Hou Han Shou as a sourceCutter wrote almost 35 pages on Cao Zhi's "Incident at the Gate" and the succession to Cao Cao in general15 pages on Lelang Commandery during the Han35 pages on Romance of the Three Kingdoms showcasing the Mencian Worldview of Political Sovereignty20 pages on how the SGZ became the SGYYGoodman writes 25 pages on Cao Pi's poem after his father's deathFarmer wrote 10 pages on the Three Chaste ones of Ba, or a story of Liu Yan in YizhouThere's almost 40 pages on Wang Bi, a Wei scholarCutter wrote on how generals became kings, with about 8 pages devoted to Cao Cao and Cao PiFarmer writes 15 pages on the name of "Shu"There's over 10 pages on the use of women as bait in SGYYThere over 10 pages on Mi Heng in the "Musical Career of Xu Wei" an almost modern figureThere's 60 pages on Zhong Hui's intellectual career10 pages on Zhuge Liang through the eyes of contemporaries10 pages on Zhuge Liang through the eyes of Chen ShouThe Liu Biao article is 30 pages long

capnnerefir wrote:This should be everything I have on Tao Qian; just the text, not any opinions or commentary:

Alone I lean under the wispy shade of an aged tree,Scornfully I raise to parted lips a cup of warm wine,Longingly I cast an empty vessel aside those exposed roots,And leave behind forgotten memories and forsaken dreams.

As I read through it all I was left with a sense that although Tao Qian may not have endorsed the killing of Cao Song he rather bought it on himself by the people he promoted. It's like walking down the street with a rabid dog and then acting innocent when it bites someone. What else did he expect to happen? It also makes the fact that he wanted to hand the province over to Liu Bei a lot less impressive when you consider that he was a fairly woeful judge of character!

Interested in the history behind the novel? Find a list of english language Three Kingdom sources here.

I've got a question about governor Tao in the days of Dong Zhuo. Various sources tell different stories. I know he sent troops to aid Zhu Jun agains the prime minister, yet some speak about his "general alliance with Dong Zhuo", but I can not find anything to support that idea.