originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
It's not the gun laws that need to be addressed, and I would argue Americans shouldn't take their freedoms for granted. It is the general moral
vacuity throughout culture that will lead a person kill others.

Violence and crime is at an all time low. Mass shootings are on the rise. "Moral vacuity" likely isn't the simple answer you think it is.

What's the answer then?

I don't know, but if you can sum it up in one word or sentence, you are probably wrong. We really need to stop looking at our social problems like
simple solutions will fix them. They don't. More often than not, they are shortsighted and don't address the long term trends appropriately.

That's how I feel. I want to be able to own guns too. I just want some restrictions on how they are bought. We can have adult conversations about how
to best handle these things instead of ranting and raving at each other to have the extremes implemented.

We need to lift restrictions, have gun safety classes in schools, and give tax breaks to anyone who carries rifles on their persons.

Imagine if everyone had rifles and were trained in military tactics this guy would have never gotten this many kills.

originally posted by: Southern Guardian
Some people are getting a wake up call about about guns in the wake of the recent Vegas shootings.

It sounds reasonable enough, the guy is talking about the pervasiveness of gun killings, it's getting worse, and it's always been bad enough...more
American people killed in gun related incidents, than all American wars back to the civil war, while the gun related deaths are usually sequenced in a
block period of around 40years, which ever period, it doesn't seem to matter...it still adds up to more than the military deaths since the country
was founded.

That's how I feel. I want to be able to own guns too. I just want some restrictions on how they are bought. We can have adult conversations about how
to best handle these things instead of ranting and raving at each other to have the extremes implemented.

We need to lift restrictions, have gun safety classes in schools, and give tax breaks to anyone who carries rifles on their persons.

I'm all for mandatory gun safety classes in school, but doing that while rescinding restrictions is bone headed.

Imagine if everyone had rifles and were trained in military tactics this guy would have never gotten this many kills.

Exactly how was anyone supposed to retaliate against a man sniping from a hotel room many stories above them? Even trained military would be hard
pressed to return fire there. It's like you think reality works like a Tom Cruise movie or something. Are we supposed to run up the side of the
building to take this guy on too?

I mean have you imagined what you are describing? Because what I'm imagining is quite a few panicking people shooting in many different
directions at what they perceive is the threat, causing MANY more causalities than we already witnessed.

You can make that analogy for literally ANY precept of freedom though, but while that analogy LOOKS super clever things don't play out like that in
reality. For instance. American gun ownership is at its highest point ever, and instances like this are used as flashpoints to drive up further gun
sales by pitching the narrative, "LIBERALS ARE COMING FOR MUH GUNS!" It was even worse when Obama was in office, because then he could be used as a
bogeyman to direct this propaganda.

But here's the thing, things like background checks or waiting periods aren't gun confiscation. You still get to own your gun. It may not be
immediately, but considering how long you'll be in possession of that firearm once it is yours (until you throw it away) that shouldn't be too hard of
a compromise. I like our right to own firearms, as do quite a few liberals. But we just feel like there should be a few more roadblocks in the way of
buying a new firearm. No, I don't think it will solve all gun crime, but just because it won't be a perfect answer isn't a reason to not do
anything.

Make good use the roadblocks you have already gotten, and i might be willing to concede. But until the rights that i've already lost are
appropriately measured, im not sure why I should give up more.

A great example: why was no one in the US government imprisoned for the gunwalking scandal?

I cannot give up my rights if those elected to lead aren't held accountable first. I haven't done anything wrong.

A "wake up call"? Yeah, that's going through the liberal media like wildfire today.

I guess there was some sort of critical mass reached on Sunday? You guys weren't serious before, but now, by golly, you're going to tamp your
foot and look mean about it?

Controlling guns is not the answer. More laws, more draconian, authoritarian, BS isn't going to make one person safer in the US. There's about 350
MILLION firearms in American hands now. We're adding them at between 10 and 15 MILLION per year. The suggestions about gun bans and reclamation are
just going to piss people off, and with that many weapons already out there, the point is moot.

Anecdotes ... like "well, jeez, a guitar player on stage last night is now against the 2nd Amendment" ... is just that.

Of course he is. He's in shock. Don't want no guns no more no more.

Except that is never going to work in this country.

Amend the Constitution? Sure. You start with the Second, someone else will start with the Fourteenth, or the Fourth, or the Fifth ... there are good
reasons SITUATIONALLY in everybody's mind to do so.

The first thing that needs to happen is that we need to stop focusing on the weapons and start focusing on the WHYS.

WHY are we killing each other at this rate? Between 40 and 50 murders happen DAILY in the United States, every day.

Having a sniper rifle on hand could have ended this a lot sooner. Hmmmm.

A suppressed hunting rifle could have ended this a lot sooner too- and without permanently damaging the hearing of the people around it!
Just imagine the situational awareness the hero could have, not needing to muffle one of their most important senses before taking the shot that saved
the day...

Honestly, I'm surprised hotel security for each of these places doesn't have at least *one* rifle locked up in the basement somewhere, just in case.

Well, I'm a moral relativist so morality doesn't mean a lot to me. I really doubt there is some unchecked decline in people being morally against
murder and mass murder in this country. Something else is going on. Though, I'm a moral relativist and feel like morality is just a cop out adults use
to blame children for not acting like they want them to act.

Yea but you neglect to mention all of the people who's minds were not changed because of this event or even those who may have changed their minds to
support the need for carrying weapons in these allegedly more dangerous times. (Gun crime is actually in a decline in most places). Who cares what the
guitarist from some unknown band thinks about things? Why didn't they come to me and ask me what i think? Don't ask me to give up my means of
protecting myself because somebody wrote an article about how someone else thinks guns are scary. If you, or anyone else is scared of guns, then don't
get one, but don't tell me i can't have one.

This guy had a weapon that is made for war!! This is not your avg rifle or handgun. How did he get it? Inspite of the laws and prohibitions. Why did
he do what he did?

No rights have been removed though. Again. Gun ownership is at an all time high in this country. For as much complaining that goes on about imminent
gun confiscation from the right, we have never been further from realizing that alleged goal. It's absurd how this can still be a valid
argument.

edit on 3-10-2017 by Krazysh0t because: had to add the word alleged in front of goal since that isn't my goal.

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