I think this definitely applies to the relationship between humans and Mother Earth.......the movie AVATAR is an excellent example of this idea slowly permeating into the consciousness. Watching that movie was a spiritual experience for me personally and James Cameron deserves a special award for being able to beautifully convey everything that's important in life!

The real earth work may be coming with the next conjunction in Capricorn in 2020? We are already seeing some of the results of Pluto in an earth sign with earthquakes......I am wondering as Uranus moves out of Pisces and into a fire sign whether Volcanos will start to flare more often?

Hi Louie,

I also thought Avatar was a beautiful movie....

RE: Uranus moving into Aries. I watched a documentary on Nostradamus (The Lost Book of Nostradamus) and one of the people who study his prophesies said that Nostradamus prophesied fire instead of water as the catastrophe coming our way. (Not sure what people on this MB think of Nostradamus, but I thought this prediction resonated well with the symbolism of Uranus in Aries.)

The next conjunction of Saturn and Pluto will happen on Jan. 12, 2020 at 22'46" of Capricorn. At that time the nodes will once again be in Cancer(NN) and Capricorn(SN) @ 8'24"....quite a cosmic dance!

Hi All

Given Steve's earlier post, in which he states that Pluto will be conjunct its own SN in 2018 and that Uranus will enter Taurus in 2018, I find Louie's quote above really interesting. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Perhaps, having gone through the (very literal) fire, collectively speaking, we will finally see the origins of the endless quagmire we are in re: relationships of all kinds. Then there will be the chance to rebuild. How total will the destruction have to be first? Will the population be radically reduced?

"How total will the destruction have to be first? Will the population be radically reduced?"

None of this is fated to occur. All will depend on the collective consciousness and collective choices made about the current imbalance between men and Gaia. The accuracy of prophecies such as Nostradamus' does not imply that they will necessarily become true. Their purpose is to induce an awareness of the potential consequences of human collective actions. JWG writes extensively about this time frame and also about Nostradamus in Pluto II, Chapter 11-Pluto in Sagittarius.

"How total will the destruction have to be first? Will the population be radically reduced?"

None of this is fated to occur. All will depend on the collective consciousness and collective choices made about the current imbalance between men and Gaia. The accuracy of prophecies such as Nostradamus' does not imply that they will necessarily become true. Their purpose is to induce an awareness of the potential consequences of human collective actions. JWG writes extensively about this time frame and also about Nostradamus in Pluto II, Chapter 11-Pluto in Sagittarius.

"How total will the destruction have to be first? Will the population be radically reduced?"

None of this is fated to occur. All will depend on the collective consciousness and collective choices made about the current imbalance between men and Gaia. The accuracy of prophecies such as Nostradamus' does not imply that they will necessarily become true. Their purpose is to induce an awareness of the potential consequences of human collective actions. JWG writes extensively about this time frame and also about Nostradamus in Pluto II, Chapter 11-Pluto in Sagittarius.

Hi - Sorry to have to add that since JWG wrote Chapter 11 in Pluto Vol 2, many many collective choices have been made. What Gonzalopan stated is true, however human activities have affected Gaia to the point that some of the damage is no longer reversible. And, every time there is an international climate summit, the proposals for what will be done are about a quarter of the minimum needed to really change things, and instead of being put into place immediately, they are phased in for ten to twenty years in the future. And by the time 10 to 20 years has gone by, next to nothing has actually changed, and another international conference is held, with the same basic results.

Unfortunately the handwriting is now on the wall. Global temperatures, and wind and precipitation patterns are rapidly shifting. This is going to effect the world's major food producing regions. The number of people on the planet is at an all time high and rapidly growing. We will be seeing vast shortages of food and fresh water. This will be exacerbated by the new global corporate reality, who sees these scarcities as opportunities to reap vast new fortunes, at the expense of people's lives. Look at what Wall Street is getting away with in the USA, for example.

We are not entering a fun era on earth. In my opinion the only thing that is up to free choice at this point is the extent of the upcoming difficulties. There is no longer an way we will avoid all of it - we have gone too far.

What we will see, as this unfolds, are the dual influences of patriarchy and matriarchy - those who want to advance their own interests through exploiting the suffering at the expense of others; and those who want to band together and help their fellow humans and other species through the hardships, as much as possible. These two approaches to human life will increasingly be colliding. People will be forced off the fence through circumstantial necessity. Everyone will have to choose their approach. We must wait and see to find which approach prevails. The answer to that is still up in the air.

This is not intended to scare, but to suggest people look closely at what is going on, the directions things are going in, and start thinking about where and how to prepare for the coming changes. Again, not from a place of fear but from a place of awakeness. There will be many opportunities to evolve spiritually through the difficulties.

One of the consequences of 'global warming', caused by human activities that violate Natural Laws, is that the warming climate causes an acceleration of the Natural Law of mutation where mutation is a consequence of the survival instinct in all forms of life. Thus, the forms of life that are called bacterias, viruses, and fungus have begun this acceleration of mutations in order to survive. This will continue to accelerate at such a pace that the humans capacity to keep designing new drugs to counteract this will not be able to keep up with the accelerated pace of the evolving/ mutating viruses, bacterias, and fungus.

This will create, progressively, pan epidemics that will have the affect of killing a tremendous amount of people all over the globe. This in combination, as Steve pointed out, with increasing scarcity of fresh water sources, the dehydration of increasing amounts of land affecting food production, will cause cataclysmic circumstances for an ever increasing amount of human beings on this planet.

With Pluto in Capricorn, in the context of now, the EARTH REALITY of now, the very nature of the structural reality at every level will be metamorphosed through varying degrees of cataclysms. And those cataclysms will occur as a consequence of CHOICES THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN MADE, AND WILL CONTINUE TO BE MADE IN OUR COLLECTIVE FUTURE. The essence of those choices comes down to the fact that the Natural Law, set in motion by the Creator, of 'giving, sharing, and inclusion' has been perversely altered to 'exclusion and self interest'. It is this perversion, at a root level, that has been, and will remain to be, the cause of all kinds of cataclysmic events for whole groupings of people that has already occurred, and will be occuring.

The transit of Pluto through Capricorn will move over it's own S.Node, as well as the S.Nodes of Saturn and Jupiter. It is intended to create increasingly glaring and shocking events, events that can have cataclymic consequences due to choices made, in order to get the attention of human beings so that other choices, choices in alignment with the Natural Laws of God/ess, can be made. And those choices either way will determine, Capricorn, how all of us will be able to live our personal lives, Cancer, on this planet: Earth. Our home.

Thank you for your posts. I'm wondering if either of you have any thoughts re: the recent Universal Health Care bill in the U.S. I'm asking this from the perspective of someone who does not, for the most part, utilize mainstream western medicine. I use alternative medicine and continue to orient more and more to spiritual practice. With the likelihood of pandemics to come, I am concerned that the response in the US will be mandatory vaccinations and such. Currently, they are still voluntary, but the push is pretty strong. In the hospital I work at (at least for another week), participation in flu vaccination programs progressed from voluntary to "mandatory" participation (but participation included signing a form that said you were choosing not to be vaccinated). The alternative practitioners I have worked with for the most part consider vaccinations to be just more toxins added to the body, thus weakening it further. For me this was a real ethical quandary: on the one hand, my own health, while improving, was compromised, and I was not wanting to participate. On the other hand, I was working with people whose immune systems were wiped out as part of their treatment. Thus, if I did get the flu, before I realized I was sick I could have passed onto a very sick person a bug that could have killed them, given their weakened state. When I was extremely sick, I got the vaccinations, as I felt the benefits outweighed the risks for myself, given my own weakened state. (Frankly, I hadn't thought about the impact on the patients I was working with.) As I got healthier, I became more and more troubled by the dilemma (finally realizing there was one) - sometimes getting vaccinated, sometimes not.

Please don't misunderstand me: I am not opposed to universal health care. I think we need it and it is a good thing. But I think, also, we have a narrow conception of what health and well-being are. It seems to me that as we (collectively) continue to mistreat our bodies (in addition to the rapidly mutating bacteria/viruses that Rad mentioned), we will be (collectively) more and more susceptible to these things, but mainstream America does not seem to be making the connection. Well, I could go on, but will end here, instead. I guess my question is really about our collective response to these health issues that will be confronting us more and more. Any thoughts?

Thank you for your posts. I'm wondering if either of you have any thoughts re: the recent Universal Health Care bill in the U.S. I'm asking this from the perspective of someone who does not, for the most part, utilize mainstream western medicine. I use alternative medicine and continue to orient more and more to spiritual practice. With the likelihood of pandemics to come, I am concerned that the response in the US will be mandatory vaccinations and such. Currently, they are still voluntary, but the push is pretty strong. In the hospital I work at (at least for another week), participation in flu vaccination programs progressed from voluntary to "mandatory" participation (but participation included signing a form that said you were choosing not to be vaccinated). The alternative practitioners I have worked with for the most part consider vaccinations to be just more toxins added to the body, thus weakening it further. For me this was a real ethical quandary: on the one hand, my own health, while improving, was compromised, and I was not wanting to participate. On the other hand, I was working with people whose immune systems were wiped out as part of their treatment. Thus, if I did get the flu, before I realized I was sick I could have passed onto a very sick person a bug that could have killed them, given their weakened state. When I was extremely sick, I got the vaccinations, as I felt the benefits outweighed the risks for myself, given my own weakened state. (Frankly, I hadn't thought about the impact on the patients I was working with.) As I got healthier, I became more and more troubled by the dilemma (finally realizing there was one) - sometimes getting vaccinated, sometimes not.

Please don't misunderstand me: I am not opposed to universal health care. I think we need it and it is a good thing. But I think, also, we have a narrow conception of what health and well-being are. It seems to me that as we (collectively) continue to mistreat our bodies (in addition to the rapidly mutating bacteria/viruses that Rad mentioned), we will be (collectively) more and more susceptible to these things, but mainstream America does not seem to be making the connection. Well, I could go on, but will end here, instead. I guess my question is really about our collective response to these health issues that will be confronting us more and more. Any thoughts?

Peace,Ellen

Hi,

I thought my question above might have been missed... Or perhaps it can't be answered?.... or is not appropriate to the MB?........

I thought my question above might have been missed... Or perhaps it can't be answered?.... or is not appropriate to the MB?........

First, it's a completely appropriate question for the message board.

You found yourself in a dilemma where all the possible responses to your question were imperfect. To take the vaccination was unsatisfactory to you, and then as you looked more deeply into the ramifications on others, not taking the vaccination also became unsatisfactory. So there is the paradox. And your personal quandary is one that, I would say, is ultimately is going to be faced by millions of other people as these natural occurrences proceed.

What better answer can anyone here offer to the quandary you found yourself in and sought to resolve? There is no perfect answer. At this time, those are the only choices available. You had to pick one, and as/if this proceeds so will others - same dilemma. Survival is the first priority. At times none of available options will be adequate.

If there is a pandemic, some health care workers will contract the illness through the course of their work. For personal survival and to avoid infecting others, they will have to take vaccines they may fundamentally disagree with. Some will be saved as a result of taking the vaccine, while some will quite likely get sick or even die as a result of taking the vaccines. Who can predict?

It come down to the same thing as everything else, all one can do is step forward, one step at a time, listen deeply within to intuition and inner guidance, and then do what feels like the right thing to do, knowing its possible that may turn out to not have been the best thing.

This is the human condition. When we talk about the inherent sense of feeling small in 1st stage spiritual, this is an example of it. This is the way it is. Past a certain point we are powerless to do anything about it. We have to make our best choices, and then learn to accept whatever may happen. Some possible outcomes can be pretty hard to accept, from the vantage point of being encased in a human body.

With the coming times, the best response will probably be to band together with like minded Souls, all of whom seek to do the best they can. In its own small way this message board is an example of that, as we consider things from perspectives that are well out of mainstream consensus reality.