I would too if I could believe it was an actual opinion. it's too consistent that every.single.time.contrary. If we said the grass is green.... No it's not.

Again, the lack of perspective. You dont see me being contrarian to all topics, only those that i find arent understood or represented well by the community. If you have a fault in your logic, you may just see my name pop up under yours.

Well, you are wrong with everything you said here, congrats on that. The hard part about doing NiM raid is getting the team together, thats it. Content isn't harder if you have an expert group. So where's the harder solo content you could do that would take the same amount of time???? eh? Small guilds do not have a huge pool of expert raiders to simply form a group, nor do they have even enough raiders to approach that. And really, the only other hard thing about that is forcing 100%-PvPers to do something they hate. So where is the PvP only way to get the gear in the same amount of time????? I swear PvEers are such nabs when addressing the issues of PvPers.

It took 2 weeks to get full PvP gear in 4.x, and raiders still had the best gear but were not able to trounce PvPers with it. (because of expertise). So, to correct you, PvPers do not want everything now, but in 2 weeks by JUST doing PvP, yes sir. The failed point of 5.x was to allow Raiders to dabble in PvP and PvPers to dabble in raids. It was a good goal, but we continue to break farther away from that.

The gearing system should not be PvEer versus PvPers, thats just dumb. Gearing should work for both equally, and not by artificially WEIGHING how long it takes to gear by a false notion of whats HARD. If I had 7 expert raiders in my guild looking for an 8th, it would be the easiest thing in the world to go raiding. What is HARD is for small groups to do any raid content at all. Instead the gearing paradigm needs to change so PvEers, PvPers, Small and Large guilders, and solo players all feel the gearing system is fair.

And tell you what, if you are a PvEer, and are thinking about posting your "solution" to a PvPer ONLY issue like gearing, and your "solution" that will save the PvP universe is "Uhm, doh, gearing works fine for PVEers so you guys should just accept it...." You have no reason to post, nor have you any thing to offer to fix the issue. Go away.

You sound like the conquesters - always living in the past as though the old system was a good system because it gave things away easier. Both oldschool pvp and the pre 5.8 conquest system had obvious flaws associated with them, and thats why they were changed. Also keep in mind that the people who created those systems are long gone, so you can take that for what its worth.

I just want to pvp on equal footing with everyone. Not NiM raiders or the multiple pathways guy who’s in full 258. I have absolutely no desire, or the time to endlessly grind for gear, do ops, ect. Why should I be punished for just doing what I enjoy in the game?

You sound like the conquesters - always living in the past as though the old system was a good system because it gave things away easier.

Many conquest focused players left the game after the old system was gutted. I don't know if the old system was easier so much as it was more inclusive and rewarded alts by allotting points to all toons equally. I'd say even if the old system was easier, people did prefer that system. BW decided to forge a new design goal despite what the players overwhelmingly asked for and the game lost subs due to that choice on their part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by olagatonjedi

Both oldschool pvp and the pre 5.8 conquest system had obvious flaws associated with them, and thats why they were changed. Also keep in mind that the people who created those systems are long gone, so you can take that for what its worth.

Nothing is perfect, and even if they were flawed, the 4.0 gearing system as well as the 5.8 conquest system were viewed as mostly fun and successful. Just because a system is flawed doesn't mean the entire system ought to be gutted and destroyed with a totally different system. Sense would be to keep the parts that were good, and tweak the parts of said systems that were bad.

When the old PVP gearing system was gutted and replaced with a steep gear grind and "exciting" RNG crates were added the game lost subs. BW eventually walked back the grind but due to having no part left of the old gearing system they had to keep their RNG crate-fest which has been universally panned as awful.

Let's just be honest, it's bad. Even after tweaking and walking back some of the steep gear grind, the new system is hardly inspiring and still isn't nearly as alt-friendly as it's predecessor was.

Anyone that played SWTOR during 4.0 can compare the gearing system then to the one they have now and there's no question the older was far superior to the new RNG-super-grindy-non-alt-playing system in place now.

I don't know of one person, not one that has said the RNG crates and new gearing system is an improvement over 4.0, not one. The drop of game subs proves my point too.

People don't quit a game en masse when they love a new gearing system, they only quit a game en masse when a super-shoddy unenjoyable gearing system is added to a game. Which is what happened.

Same thing with the new conquest system. Utterly missed the mark with 5.8. And the result was making a ton of players that once enjoyed conquest apathetic at best and irate/disappointed at worst which lead to people quitting the game.

We can pretend the new changes are making the game better, but success is the ultimate truth bearer; and well, sadly the immense number of drops in population on SWTOR would indicate to me the game is not nearly as successful as it once was.

Game changing alterations are to blame for that, or as you say perhaps the people that once were creating the most successful moments of SWTOR are gone and we ought to blame the people who replaced them?

You failed to see my point. PvP'ers, NiM raiders, and the rest of the PvE community should all have the same grind. So if it takes a NiM raider 20 weeks to grind a full set of 258's, it should take ALL of us 20 weeks of grinding. No one group should be quicker.

no, i think you missed my point here:

NiM Content is way harder than PVP at every aspect. getting a good group, organization, learning new mechanics, etc., hence better reward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stellarcrusade

Well, you are wrong with everything you said here, congrats on that. The hard part about doing NiM raid is getting the team together, thats it. Content isn't harder if you have an expert group. So where's the harder solo content you could do that would take the same amount of time???? eh? Small guilds do not have a huge pool of expert raiders to simply form a group, nor do they have even enough raiders to approach that. And really, the only other hard thing about that is forcing 100%-PvPers to do something they hate. So where is the PvP only way to get the gear in the same amount of time????? I swear PvEers are such nabs when addressing the issues of PvPers.

It took 2 weeks to get full PvP gear in 4.x, and raiders still had the best gear but were not able to trounce PvPers with it. (because of expertise). So, to correct you, PvPers do not want everything now, but in 2 weeks by JUST doing PvP, yes sir. The failed point of 5.x was to allow Raiders to dabble in PvP and PvPers to dabble in raids. It was a good goal, but we continue to break farther away from that.

The gearing system should not be PvEer versus PvPers, thats just dumb. Gearing should work for both equally, and not by artificially WEIGHING how long it takes to gear by a false notion of whats HARD. If I had 7 expert raiders in my guild looking for an 8th, it would be the easiest thing in the world to go raiding. What is HARD is for small groups to do any raid content at all. Instead the gearing paradigm needs to change so PvEers, PvPers, Small and Large guilders, and solo players all feel the gearing system is fair.

And tell you what, if you are a PvEer, and are thinking about posting your "solution" to a PvPer ONLY issue like gearing, and your "solution" that will save the PvP universe is "Uhm, doh, gearing works fine for PVEers so you guys should just accept it...." You have no reason to post, nor have you any thing to offer to fix the issue. Go away.

NiM content is easy? why dont you get into some quick clear runs and gear in 1 week then?
i'm sure a pro player like you would have a warm welcome in any group. shouldnt bother you anyway, since you would clear it that fast, you dont have to grind this easy borring content for long and can get back to the REAL endgame: PVP. no reason to complain about pvp gearing in firstplace.

no mate seriously, nearly everything YOU said is wrong.
first of all: there is no such thing like "PVP related" problems if it comes to gearing.
everybody is given the same chance to gear by multiple methods. if you dont want to use all of them, you are creating your own problem.

the argument of small guilds not having enough players to raid NiM is brought up since forever, yet its so wrong. you are not *********** bound to the guild to create a raidgroup. merge guilds, create groups across many different guilds, organize via social media, websites, whatsapp. do i really have to provide a "how-to-find-friends"- tutorial here??!

(couldnt do that anyway, since i obvsly not gonna get new ones in the forums, because truth hurts...)

aaaand since you just ignored my point while ranting: NO pvp and pve should NOT have the same way to gear up:, harder content = better rewards.
not saying any sm gf op grinder should get 258 faster than pvp players, but GotM NiM raiders should.

and we already had these false accusations of people not knowong what they are talking about, since they dont full time pvp. neither are they valid, nor does it give anyone the power to tell anyone what hes allowed to talk about. wont gonna get into that again.

NiM Content is way harder than PVP at every aspect. getting a good group, organization, learning new mechanics, etc., hence better reward.

NiM content is easy? why dont you get into some quick clear runs and gear in 1 week then?
i'm sure a pro player like you would have a warm welcome in any group. shouldnt bother you anyway, since you would clear it that fast, you dont have to grind this easy borring content for long and can get back to the REAL endgame: PVP. no reason to complain about pvp gearing in firstplace.

no mate seriously, nearly everything YOU said is wrong.
first of all: there is no such thing like "PVP related" problems if it comes to gearing.
everybody is given the same chance to gear by multiple methods. if you dont want to use all of them, you are creating your own problem.

the argument of small guilds not having enough players to raid NiM is brought up since forever, yet its so wrong. you are not *********** bound to the guild to create a raidgroup. merge guilds, create groups across many different guilds, organize via social media, websites, whatsapp. do i really have to provide a "how-to-find-friends"- tutorial here??!

(couldnt do that anyway, since i obvsly not gonna get new ones in the forums, because truth hurts...)

aaaand since you just ignored my point while ranting: NO pvp and pve should NOT have the same way to gear up:, harder content = better rewards.
not saying any sm gf op grinder should get 258 faster than pvp players, but GotM NiM raiders should.

and we already had these false accusations of people not knowong what they are talking about, since they dont full time pvp. neither are they valid, nor does it give anyone the power to tell anyone what hes allowed to talk about. wont gonna get into that again.

You're right. This discussion is stupid. Nim players do more, as people die down the weekly. And I do not play Nim.
As I've already written, I do not mind if PVPers get something. But definitely not as much as Nim player.

Keith and Co. do not seem to be interested in this discussion. Otherwise, there would be a little feedback. For example: "We will think of something."

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The statements and opinions expressed on these websites are solely those of their respective authors and do not necessarily reflect the views, nor are they endorsed by Bioware, LucasArts, and its licensors do not guarantee the accuracy of, and are in no way responsible for any content on these websites.