No, but people can directly talk to people here and take them to task over it. As people do not have as direct of communication to Gracie and her being a public figure means whatever she says reaches out further than most private people's comments, and as she cares about her image, then a public apology is the best thing people can ask of her and serves as the most beneficial course of action in terms of her own damage control.

This is a board of figure skating fans who can write English. I am not sure if people who do not belong to the category will be adequately represented. And skaters are hardly expected to speak up for themselves here. So I don't think the outrage here is a good gauge of much of anything other than the outrage of figure skating fans who can write English

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And? Does that negate people's reaction who have had exposure to such ridicule. People may be able to write English here, but this board has a broad population with people who may have learned English as a second, third, etc. language. Also, many may know (either through their own experience or people they know) what is like to be judged of your speaking ability before you even say a word just by your physical characteristics.

I think people do know -- because if you take out "Chinese" and substitute "African American" or another group, that would have been v offensive to many. I think if it is a type of comment that one would never make about one's own people, then it's offensive. (Or try making some generic stereotypic remark about the economic opportunities of an ethnic minority here) I don't think racist comments are limited to physical attributes or accents--that's a rather arbitrary distinction, leaving people to think it's okay to criticize another culture based on some non-physical atribute.

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Actually, it's not arbitrary because there's a difference between things you are born with and things that you can actually control. Also, people may not be able to make fun of whole races of people just by their skin color, but people make jokes about specific nationalities all of the time. Look up Nigerian jokes for instance. Does that make it ok? No. I never said you couldn't be racist if you made fun of cultural stereotypes based on behavior. However, I think people tend to distinguish certain things. Not all generalizations are racist, but they can still be offensive. The comment about the quality of Chinese products can be seen as offensive and based on a wrong stereotype (and if you want to take it further, it can be a criticism of maybe the Chinese production model) or it could be people's criticism based on the fact that Chinese products are sought because they are cheaper and can be mass produced as a way to cut costs for businesses to sell to other markets. I'm not saying it can't be racist, but you have to see that there may be legitimate criticisms as well that may not always be based on mockery. Anyway, I forgot what the point of this part of the argument was about.

Anyway, you yourself have your own personal threshold of what's deemed acceptable and what's deemed offensive. However, you cannot control how other people feel, which is what you're doing by judging people's reaction, then creating your own arbitrary class of people who are deserving of taking offense (Japanese people) and those who aren't (those who aren't Japanese).

All I am saying is, deep down people do typecast other people (even other race), whether we admit it or not. But it's easy to think we are not when we are taking a "firm stand" on things llike Gracie's tweets.

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I don't think people here are doing that at all. Nobody is saying that people aren't guilty of bad behavior or that people are perfect. However, the matter at hand is that people were offended by Gracie's Tweet and commented on it. You can have an attitude of thinking since people are guilty of similar actions then they should never criticize other people of doing something similar, but other people disagree and think that as long as it's recognized as offensive, then people have the right to make a comment and inform Gracie of the offensive nature of her Tweet.

So far, the outrage here seems to stem from the non-Japanese community. I have yet to see a Japanese fan here expressing outrage. You have the right to be outrage, but to be fair one needs to take the Japanese sentiments into account if the outrage is meant to be a considerate behavior towards Japanese people.

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Actually, some people have given examples of Japanese friends being offended and some people have given assumed reactions from Japanese people not being offended. Does that somehow negate the initial negative reaction people have? There's a reason why it hit a nerve with people.

Again, I am not saying what Gracie did had any malicious intent nor am I thinking that people didn't have some sort of knee-jerk reaction to it. However, I don't blame people for reacting the way they did over it and want some sort of clarification or acknowledgement that the Tweet was a bad judgment call. What I do have a problem with is the dismissive attitude and sort of minimizing the impact it may have had on people, no matter if they should have taken a breath and understand that Gracie did not intend to use racist language (even if the language itself was racist).

I was really looking forward to seeing Karen Chen in the JGPF. I'm bummed for her that she has an injury and has to withdraw. Is she competing in Seniors at Nationals? That will be exciting to see her debut there if she is. I'm excited about her potential (but not trying to tempt the Skategods too much!)

No, but people can directly talk to people here and take them to task over it. As people do not have as direct of communication to Gracie and her being a public figure means whatever she says reaches out further than most private people's comments, and as she cares about her image, then a public apology is the best thing people can ask of her and serves as the most beneficial course of action in terms of her own damage control.

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I'm merely commenting from the perspectiveness of offensiveness. What she does as a public figure is a PR thing and I'll perhaps leave that for another conversation.

Actually, it's not arbitrary because there's a difference between things you are born with and things that you can actually control.

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I know that distinction, but many things that one can control are still offensive topics. e.g. Assuming people belonging to a type (e.g. social economic class) based on race is still racist. Saying one roots for all countries except Country X to win the Olympics could be racist.

I think what is racist and sexism has evolved over time, and the majority of the society has always been shaping the definition. Two hundred years ago, the minorities didn't get much say in this at all. Now they have spoken up and more things are now in the offensive category. So perhaps thirty years from now, and with enough people spoken up about it, what I mention here will be openly considered by all to be offensive. I say this merely to point out the arbitrary nature re: offensiveness as a product of cultural norms. Many racist comments stem from ignorance of another culture, and it hurts like hell, and the most hurtful things don't necessarily involve making fun of skin color, accents, or physical attributes.

However, you cannot control how other people feel, which is what you're doing by judging people's reaction, then creating your own arbitrary class of people who are deserving of taking offense (Japanese people) and those who aren't (those who aren't Japanese).

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It's not arbitrary; the tweet is for Mao and if it is considered offensive against Japanese people, then we should take their feelings into account. I think if people are gonna be offended, let's be clear they are offended for themselves, not for Mao or Japanese people.

I don't think people here are doing that at all. Nobody is saying that people aren't guilty of bad behavior or that people are perfect. However, the matter at hand is that people were offended by Gracie's Tweet and commented on it. You can have an attitude of thinking since people are guilty of similar actions then they should never criticize other people of doing something similar, but other people disagree and think that as long as it's recognized as offensive, then people have the right to make a comment and inform Gracie of the offensive nature of her Tweet.

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That's because she is a public figure, not anonymous posters behind a login name.
I'll be honest: I have been offended by some comments about Chinese in the past in the society and here in this forum, But when people think I should be offended, it's often over something I'm not concerned about. The most hurtful comments go beyond stupid errors. Yet even with the most hurtful things I just forget it.

Actually, some people have given examples of Japanese friends being offended.

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One instance of a third hand report. See posts above by Japanese fans.

I was really looking forward to seeing Karen Chen in the JGPF. I'm bummed for her that she has an injury and has to withdraw. Is she competing in Seniors at Nationals? That will be exciting to see her debut there if she is. I'm excited about her potential (but not trying to tempt the Skategods too much!)

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No, she is competing junior again in the U.S. this year (she won the junior ladies pewter medal last year).

I know that distinction, but many things that one can control are still offensive topics. e.g. Assuming people belonging to a type (e.g. social economic class) based on race is still racist.

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Yes, I've addressed that in my post.

I think what is racist and sexism has evolved over time, and the majority of the society has always been shaping the definition. Two hundred years ago, the minorities didn't get much say in this at all. Now they have spoken up and more things are now in the offensive category. So perhaps thirty years from now, and with enough people spoken up about it, what I mention here will be openly considered by all to be offensive. I merely point to the arbitrary nature re: definition of offensiveness. Many racist comments stem from ignorance of other culture, and it hurt like hell, even if the most hurtful things don't necessarily involve making fun of skin color, accents, or physical attributes.

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See, I don't see it as arbitrary as much as recognizing how things that seem harmless are actually deep-seated into racist attitudes and perpetuations of those attitudes.

It's not arbitrary; the tweet is for Mao and if it is considered offensive against Japanese people, then we should take their feelings into account. I think if people are gonna be offended, let's be clear they are offended for themselves, not for Mao.

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I agree with this. I think my point is that since Gracie said it on Twitter for the world to see, it reached beyond Mao and people are reacting to it based on their own feelings. I wrote that in my initial post to you.

I'll be honest: I have been offended by some comments about Chinese in the past in the society and here in this forum, But when people think I should be offended, it's often over something I'm not concerned about. The most hurtful comments go beyond stupid errors. Yet even with the most hurtful things I just forget it.

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As have I. There are things in every day life that I have to ignore or brush off just because I don't want to start a confrontation or have to defend my feelings. That still doesn't excuse the initial comments I have to deal with. I think this applies to everybody. I understand your feelings and why you choose or simply are not offended. However, what you are not offended by is not the same for others, and I don't know if it serves much good to minimize other people's authentic reactions. It's one thing to have them explain and maybe try to put their feelings in another perspective in order for them to reevaluate their feelings, but this sort of minimization because you don't feel the same is just dismissal.

One instance of a third hand report. See post above by a Japanese fan.

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Again, I don't see what the point is if people were offended by it. And it's a second-hard report, not third-hand (not that it really matters). Your example of one Japanese fan and a comment that more people are on the same page (without evidence) is not much better since it's coming from a poster just like the poster who talked about his/her friend being offended. Even if dozens of supposed Japanese fans came to Gracie's defense, again, that doesn't take away the sting some people felt.

Of course all of these only applies to people who authentically felt offended by her comment, not those who are using it as another way to attack Gracie Gold just because they already disliked her for other reasons.

Enough already. Gracie is a teenager and an athlete. She is not perfect and neither are any of us who post here. Thank heavens there was no Tweet or FB when I was a kid. People complain here because skaters are always too PC and never let you in on their personality and how they hate perfect princesses. Then one mis-step and the critics with their pitchforks and knives come out of the woodwork screaming outrage about what an awful person said skater is and how that tweet, cover photo, etc. confirms it, blah, blah, blah . People are so quick to judge others character flaws. Gets downright depressing.

I agree with this. I think my point is that since Gracie said it on Twitter for the world to see, it reached beyond Mao and people are reacting to it based on their own feelings. I wrote that in my initial post to you.

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However, what you are not offended by is not the same for others, and I don't know if it serves much good to minimize other people's authentic reactions. It's one thing to have them explain and maybe try to put their feelings in another perspective in order for them to reevaluate their feelings, but this sort of minimization because you don't feel the same is just dismissal.

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Again, I don't see what the point is if people were offended by it. And it's a second-hard report, not third-hand (not that it really matters). Your example of one Japanese fan and a comment that more people are on the same page (without evidence) is not much better since it's coming from a poster just like the poster who talked about his/her friend being offended. Even if dozens of supposed Japanese fans came to Gracie's defense, again, that doesn't take away the sting some people felt.

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I still think Mao's response is more important than mine or individual fans' and the Japanese people's feelings should most definitely respected. Let's say, if I want to brush off a stupid comment directed at me, it doesn't help that others around me are making a big fuss about it and will not stop.

And for that matter, I think it's time to go back to skating. I am hoping Gracie will get her jumps together because I think her Sleeping Beauty, despite whatever others say, will be spectacular when she gets her jumps going.'

eta: And we're on page 51. Would admin please close the thread so we can start a new one without Twitter-gate.

Enough already. Gracie is a teenager and an athlete. She is not perfect and neither are any of us who post here. Thank heavens there was no Tweet or FB when I was a kid. People complain here because skaters are always too PC and never let you in on their personality and how they hate perfect princesses. Then one mis-step and the critics with their pitchforks and knives come out of the woodwork screaming outrage about what an awful person said skater is and how that tweet, cover photo, etc. confirms it, blah, blah, blah . People are so quick to judge others character flaws. Gets downright depressing.

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Aren't *you* being a little quick to judge by characterizing all the criticism of Gracie's tweet as saying that it proves she is a terrible person? Because that's not what most of the criticism is saying.

So now we're going to rip apart her apology? I think her apology is just fine. She wasn't apologizing that people took offense to her comment. She was saying she was sorry for unintentionally offending anyone.

O-

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It looks like it might have been just a typo. Why is this being made such a big deal?

Enough already. Gracie is a teenager and an athlete. She is not perfect and neither are any of us who post here. Thank heavens there was no Tweet or FB when I was a kid. People complain here because skaters are always too PC and never let you in on their personality and how they hate perfect princesses. Then one mis-step and the critics with their pitchforks and knives come out of the woodwork screaming outrage about what an awful person said skater is and how that tweet, cover photo, etc. confirms it, blah, blah, blah . People are so quick to judge others character flaws. Gets downright depressing.

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I think that if you are in the public eye, you should consider "would this be appropriate to say in a workplace?" attitude. I have no doubt that the tweet was purely in fun, and I'm sure Mao laughed, but it was written publicly on the internet, and some people ARE going to take offence. All the people I showed the article too thought it was a bit wrong. I don't buy the "but she is a kid" thing, because aren't we all taught when we are little kids to not make fun of other ethnicities? It's just a basic thing that she should know not to do.

The magazine cover is just an unflattering picture. I quite like the smirk, and I'd love it if she played up that side more, we need more personalities. But yeah, just not a good photo. Pity, because she is a very pretty lady.