It has been a long time since I have posted. Master's program has been keeping me busy. One more year left. I guess my inactivity for so long has caused me to lose rank as well.

So I have been reading through the data sheets, and the rules, and it seems to me that 8th edition seems to lend itself to some older tactics, like Fish of Fury, to some extent. I could be wrong, but I also have not been able to play test the new rules yet. Time will tell.

This is the list I have been kicking around for the last couple days. If those with actual experience in the new meta could pitch in some ideas based on experience, that would be helpful.

Also, it is my understanding that the hammerhead cost includes the rail head? Is this accurate now?

Crunchy_Monk wrote:Then it is written poorly in the book, Because the entry says includes railgun. Is there something somewhere else that says one must pay for the armaments on vehicles?

The points cost are just for the base/hull/body/chassis of the unit. You must pay for every single piece of wargear, down to the last Burst Cannon. This means that a Hammerhead will cost around 171 points with a Railgun and two Gun Drones.

Hmm. I guess I missed a rule somewhere? This is greatly disappointing. This also makes certain units to appear ridiculously expensive.

Then I suppose I will have to revert to my old strategy of using a unit of broadsides as a pivot anchor for the rest of my army. Is there a reason that transports in general or so much more expensive now?

Crunchy_Monk wrote:Holy cow. Well, there goes my hopes. Back to the drawing board I guess.

Not having played any games this edition yet, does this make vehicles more powerful due to the rarity we may see them? This almost seems like horde armies will be stronger this edition as a result.

Vehicles are far more durable thanks to having wounds and saves (no more lucky 6 -> explodes) so in that sense they're way stronger versus most fire, but still die hard to multi-damage and high AP weaponry (as they should).

Hordes are definitely stronger as infantry are now comparatively even cheaper.

At the back of the index where it has the points values, it says to pay for both the model and its wargear. Some things, like infantry pulse weapons, are free. But the rule you are looking for is at the top of the page, above the main table for units.

Yup, that's how a lot of us reacted too. Many XV8 loadouts are coming in at 300+ points for the team, Riptides around 400 points, Broadsides at 165 minimum. Expensive, and sadly not much firepower to show for it. Against vehicles, 80-90 points per wound seems average. The army is not in a good place and many of us are hoping the FAQ or new Codex release will help.

Crunchy_Monk wrote:Holy cow. Well, there goes my hopes. Back to the drawing board I guess.

Not having played any games this edition yet, does this make vehicles more powerful due to the rarity we may see them? This almost seems like horde armies will be stronger this edition as a result.

Vehicles are stronger, yes. And also yes, horde armies seem to be the winner so far. Or at least they are very good, some people still report good results with a rather elite army.Fact however is that you can't reliably win games with like just 5 models anymore.

Sa'cea Mont'yr wrote:At the back of the index where it has the points values, it says to pay for both the model and its wargear. Some things, like infantry pulse weapons, are free. But the rule you are looking for is at the top of the page, above the main table for units.

I must admit, that is a horrible place to put that rule. Nowhere in recent memory can I recall a rule being posted in the war gear section.

Ok, so this is a revision of the list, accounting for the points changes (allocation) that I was made aware of.Its a fairly mobile army. The idea is deploy the the stealth units on the front lines where they are needed, poking where the perceived weak point is, and getting the single markerlight hit (hopefully) allowing the Hammerheads and commanders to reroll 1s. Dropping the commanders within range of the homing beacon (and hopefully under 9 inches to get that extra die roll, and passing drones off to the drone controller in the Stealth Unit. Hammerheads stay back (hitting on +2) providing supporting fire, while the fire teams deploy rapidly where necessary by means of the devilfish. Anything assaulted should be able to enact a fighting retreat, jumping out of combat while shoot. The steal units I feel are one of the best front line units, as their camo bonus applies in CC as well. Also, keeping drones detached and close by to the tanks to sacrifice themselves as ablative wounds.

I've also been contemplating a modified "Fish of Fury tactic. The Devilfish deploy in a V, with the rear hatches being the closest. Two squads of Firewarriors disembark between them, and the drones detaching, serving as an assault screen as well as shielding from incoming fire. When necessary, Firewarriors embark and flee in the fish, the drones staying behind in an attempt to tar-pit, or moving with the Devilfish (as best as they can) to screen incoming fire.

New disembark rules state that models can only disembark before the vehicle moves, unfortunately. So you'll need to pre-plan your FoF carefully.

The list looks solid, though having never played with a Ghostkeel, I can't speak to the efficacy of using one in small games. Though using what was by all accounts a combat monster in 7th, even after the nerfs, should still provide some good mobile firepower.

I would highly suggest investing in more markerlight sources, though. From the one game I've played so far, you're going to want those re-roll ones hits. Still, I'm interested to hear how this list pans out.

Sa'cea Mont'yr wrote:New disembark rules state that models can only disembark before the vehicle moves, unfortunately. So you'll need to pre-plan your FoF carefully.

The list looks solid, though having never played with a Ghostkeel, I can't speak to the efficacy of using one in small games. Though using what was by all accounts a combat monster in 7th, even after the nerfs, should still provide some good mobile firepower.

I would highly suggest investing in more markerlight sources, though. From the one game I've played so far, you're going to want those re-roll ones hits. Still, I'm interested to hear how this list pans out.

Well, statistically, I should get at least one markerlight hit out of those 3, but I hear what you are saying. Do you have any suggestions about where I could squeeze them in? Is two tanks overkill? Also, this will be downgraded to a patrol detachment, as I don't have enough troops (misread the detachment).

I like the mobility of the list. It should be able to stay ahead of horde armies to some extent, while the tanks take care of the larger more annoying units, and drop the commanders where needed. The Stealth units (Ghostkeel included) are more survivable in this edition I think, and the ability to break from combat and shoot is nice. Though, it is harder to KEEP them out of combat without the JSJ we have loved for so long.

Maybe I could drop a commander for a fireblade (one more markerlight) and some pathfinders? But that reduces the firepower that I can drop where needed, so I don't know.

Also, the only problem I ever had with the Ghostkeel was in close combat. It usually got sweeping advanced off the board. Otherwise, it is a tough nugget. You have to play aggressive with it.

Playing with the list a little, I could always swap out the two commanders for a fireblade and shadowsun to get some Pathfinders. The only problem I could conceive is not getting to shoot first. Though, if I push them on a flank, incoming fire could be reduced.