Reactions to the KeyOne from Passport users...

Provided it has a full breakdown of costs and revenues for the entirety of the period from the beginning of BB10 development to present, that would suffice, yes. Then we'd have something on which to base an assessment of whether any BB10 devices made a profit or not, as opposed to speculation and circular reasoning.

Posted via CB10

Let me guess, you were let go from BlackBerry. I should have guessed. Sorry for your job loss. Good luck with your independent contractor BB10 app developer business..

Better yet, a link to announcement of layoffs of all the BlackBerry developers? Better yet, a link to announcement of the BB10 updates being delayed for the umpteenth time? How about the updates for Android every month but 10.3.3 has been pulled for glitches and the five(5) guys that are left on the BB10 team are now busy running their hamburger business...

No, none of that would be better. It would in fact be useless, since it would shed no light on the question of whether any BB10 devices made a profit or not.

Let me guess, you were let go from BlackBerry. I should have guessed. Sorry for your job loss. Good luck with your independent contractor BB10 app developer business..

Wrong. I shall assume from your attempts at distraction from the issue that you do not have the data needed to resolve the question and therefore are indeed engaged in nothing more than pure speculation and circular reasoning.

Wrong. I shall assume from your attempts at distraction from the issue that you do not have the data needed to resolve the question and therefore are indeed engaged in nothing more than pure speculation and circular reasoning.

Posted via CB10

BlackBerry never released information by device. How would you want us to gather that information?

What the data does show is complete write offs on inventory. The last quarter they just wrote down another $42 million on assets held for sale.

Here is where the inference that leads to your so called circular reasoning. If BlackBerry never released data per phone, keeps writing down and devaluing their own assets because they can't sell them, tries to release their own android branded phone and fails, then just licenses their name for phones, what does that tell you about BB10 and their device business as a whole?

BlackBerry never released information by device. How would you want us to gather that information?

What the data does show is complete write offs on inventory. The last quarter they just wrote down another $42 million on assets held for sale.

Here is where the inference that leads to your so called circular reasoning. If BlackBerry never released data per phone, keeps writing down and devaluing their own assets because they can't sell them, tries to release their own android branded phone and fails, then just licenses their name for phones, what does that tell you about BB10 and their device business as a whole?

The question you all keep avoiding now that you're being pinned down on an oft-repeated but completely unsupported assertion, is what does it tell you about whether any BB10 device was profitable or not. The answer is, of course, nothing.

What possible evidence do you have for the profitability of any BB10 device? The staggering losses throughout the whole program are extremely well documented.

You are the one who made the original contention without any basis. How could you prove that the Jakarta was unprofitable? And you can't amortize what you think it cost to develop the OS over all the phones. I'm not talking sunk costs. You don't include those when you are looking prospectively. I think that is your mistake.

The question you all keep avoiding now that you're being pinned down on an oft-repeated but completely unsupported assertion, is what does it tell you about whether any BB10 device was profitable or not. The answer is, of course, nothing.

Posted via CB10

In all reality, if BB10 was profitable, why would BlackBerry decide to make android phones?

You are the one who made the original contention without any basis. How could you prove that the Jakarta was unprofitable? And you can't amortize what you think it cost to develop the OS over all the phones. I'm not talking sunk costs. You don't include those when you are looking prospectively. I think that is your mistake.

Posted via CB10

What would all the write downs suggest? What would the move to Android suggest?
What does the move to get completely out of hardware suggest?

It all points to bb10 and their in house android handsets not being a profitable venture for BlackBerry.

Id personally write off every BB10 device prior to the passport and Classic. The z10 was good, but brought nothing new to the table relative to the competition, and the OS at the time, still needed a lot of refinements. My love for blackberry 10 started with the passport and I believe whoever designed it got it right. Also, after fully immersing myself in the OS, as an expert android user, I feel satisfied that this OS is marketable and needs just a few improvements to be profitable.

I do also have an extra beef with sell out blackberrians like crackberry Kev, who bash the passport whenever they get the chance to support blackberrys failing new strategy, the android. sad

Id personally write off every BB10 device prior to the passport and Classic. The z10 was good, but brought nothing new to the table relative to the competition, and the OS at the time, still needed a lot of refinements. My love for blackberry 10 started with the passport and I believe whoever designed it got it right. Also, after fully immersing myself in the OS, as an expert android user, I feel satisfied that this OS is marketable and needs just a few improvements to be profitable.

I do also have an extra beef with sell out blackberrians like crackberry Kev, who bash the passport whenever they get the chance to support blackberrys failing new strategy, the android. sad

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

I know. Old BlackBerry users are bashing bb10 whenever there are new black Droid. So sad people who used to praise BlackBerry...

You are the one who made the original contention without any basis. How could you prove that the Jakarta was unprofitable? And you can't amortize what you think it cost to develop the OS over all the phones. I'm not talking sunk costs. You don't include those when you are looking prospectively. I think that is your mistake.

Posted via CB10

ANY basis?! Really?

The gross revenue on a single device has no meaning if you refuse to include ongoing development and support, physical plant, distribution networks, sales and marketing, etc, etc.

If I go out and get Foxconn to build 100 WebOS devices for $5000 each, and manage to sell them all for $5200 without any future support, warranty, or work on my part, did the device make a profit? I suppose it did, but it's meaningless silliness.

This is plain silly... you have a company that developed from the ground an OS... that company had very poor quarters after quarters performances... that company now goes to a different OS... and you want to say that if you don't post a link you cannot state that the devices running the company's OS weren't profitable, and that it's posible that they were but decided to go to a different platform because x reason... you don't have any proof but without a link you can say black but I cannot say white... human beings...

Originally Posted by Kim_is_best_waifu

None whatsoever. I never said they were profitable; I merely pointed out that those claiming they were not profitable had no evidence. Google "burden of proof."

This is plain silly... you have a company that developed from the ground an OS... that company had very poor quarters after quarters performances... that company now goes to a different OS... and you want to say that if you don't post a link you cannot state that the devices running the company's OS weren't profitable, and that it's posible that they were but decided to go to a different platform because x reason... you don't have any proof but without a link you can say black but I cannot say white... human beings...

I didn't make an assertion. I merely challenged someone else to back up theirs and pointed out an alternative possibility. I don't need to provide proof of anything. That's how logic works. Google "burden of proof."

I see... well play I guess? Silly from top to bottom... BTW I heard that you stole some money... sorry no link but you know, internet...

Originally Posted by Kim_is_best_waifu

I didn't make an assertion. I merely challenged someone else to back up theirs and pointed out an alternative possibility. I don't need to provide proof of anything. That's how logic works. Google "burden of proof."

The gross revenue on a single device has no meaning if you refuse to include ongoing development and support, physical plant, distribution networks, sales and marketing, etc, etc.

If I go out and get Foxconn to build 100 WebOS devices for $5000 each, and manage to sell them all for $5200 without any future support, warranty, or work on my part, did the device make a profit? I suppose it did, but it's meaningless silliness.

Ongoing development and support? Hahahahaha wow. Take for example android- as you clearly know, most android devices are used AS IS, and the cost of the next software update tied into the next upgrade cycle which is especially true for Apple products. Are you talking about the 19th century?

This is why I've been mentioning that with each upgrade cycle, Google has been expanding its reach on users data to mitigate cost which is why android users should worry.

Why? You didn't like the logic behind? If you want you can refute my claim that I heard that you stole some money but of course, even when I didn't provide any link, you have to provide one for me to believe it...

Why? You didn't like the logic behind? If you want you can refute my claim that I heard that you stole some money but of course, even when I didn't provide any link, you have to provide one for me to believe it...

You've got it backwards again. Why don't you leave the logic to those of us who understand how to use it?

As a passport user, I will buy a keyone but it will be my last attempt for BlackBerry android. I didn't like dtek series because I already had better android devices. I don't hate android at all but BlackBerry 10 was my favorite. I already know how keyone will perform so obviously my expectations are not very high.