The USA is not the holy messiah of human rights

HaHo (Hello),
I agree, I was bout to put down some words and feelings and they cut it off at the pass, so to speak! I was reading some posts that talked bout Native
Americans, like the stuff they read out of school books and think they know for a fact my Nation comes from the Bering Straits (Theory-get it! Its a
"theory") and how the atrocities done to me and mine every day, not just to our ancestors in the past but in our every day lives. I could give many
more examples, but many immigrants who come to our ancestral lands (Turtle Island) have made up their minds and hearts, so why bother! To think you
are free here in America is not really true, not only for me but you as well.
I am full blooded(meaning because of the United States we have to DNA testing to prove we are Native American), plus I have land that is held in trust
, that I cannot use, its for non-native americans (like local governments, state governments, federal government and private(tax paying citizens) to
do as they please on my so called indian land. Some would argue that we have casino's, yeah that is a misconception and its not controlled by Native
American Quasi-Sovereign Tribal entities or Tribal Governments authorized by the United States Government to even exist.
Reply to your previous post and relates to this post as well: Why do we condemn the nazis when America has committed equally evil deeds?
"The US has committed heinous crimes against the native americans"

You know, its a little thing called pride. People have it everywhere you go. There are citizens of places most people think suck that think where they
live is the best in the world. Truth is, most people know the BS going on heir own country but they still have pride in where they're from because
the whole world is just as messed up

Sure, I've known people who think America is the best around. Perfect nation untouched by evil. Those people were in their late 60s, 70s, and 80s.
People who experienced a different America. Rarely do I actually meet people of younger generations that don't realize our country has its faults.
And its not rare to find people who have pride in where they are from regardless.

You're free to rage about your perceptions. I have no place to say you're wrong. But I will tell you I have pride in being an American and won't
shy away from admitting when we are wrong. Or at least when I think we are wrong.

Originally posted by manykapao
Oh great an ATS favorite, USA bashing. Does all that dribble have a single.mention of Europe's.CENTURIES of.abuses and imperialism over the globe or
is it just centered around a few decades of.the US doing Europe's.dirty work.

...

edit on 4-11-2012 by manykapao because: (no reason given)

I think people can CONSIDER the foibles of the USA without thinking we have a monopoly on injustice.

People should always work on fixing their own problems before they try to fix others. WE all know that terrible things have been done, and that in
Iran, sometimes they cut off heads. But American justice -- or the lack thereof, effects my life, and any abuse of the public here is more of a threat
because it's where I live.

The Modern age is an improvement over the abuses of people in the past -- but mainly because they've taken it out of the public eye and we have
expectations of better behavior. Europe as well has become a bit more civilized than a few hundred years ago.

So here we are now; expecting truth, justice and the American way - and we have to face that it's just Public Relations.

>> We can add a bit to this list; Drug Companies "allegedly" were using some of our procured prisoners at Abu Ghraib to test drugs that make people
depressed and lose hope -- making them very susceptible to being broken (likely an anti-depressent that failed but had useful side effects). So maybe
beyond terrorizing Iraqis, our torture program ended up having a purely financial reason for existing.

I want to live in a country that is a beacon of hope and gains influence because everyone loves and respects us -- we can't get their with the path
we've been on. And I applaud people who bring up the evil we do -- we can never be a great country unless we first push the standards of being good.

Originally posted by Echo3Foxtrot
You know, its a little thing called pride. People have it everywhere you go. There are citizens of places most people think suck that think where they
live is the best in the world. Truth is, most people know the BS going on heir own country but they still have pride in where they're from because
the whole world is just as messed up

Sure, I've known people who think America is the best around. Perfect nation untouched by evil. Those people were in their late 60s, 70s, and 80s.
People who experienced a different America. Rarely do I actually meet people of younger generations that don't realize our country has its faults.
And its not rare to find people who have pride in where they are from regardless.

You're free to rage about your perceptions. I have no place to say you're wrong. But I will tell you I have pride in being an American and won't
shy away from admitting when we are wrong. Or at least when I think we are wrong.

Kudos!

I think we can do both. We can be proud of the GOOD people in America who have done great things, and angry at the people who have done evil. People
are not effective and can become unhealthy if they ONLY think about the bad things without embracing all the good -- and vice versa -- blind
patriotism allows the abuse to continue.

I'm glad you can be OK with the critics -- that shows strength. Weak people demand to live in a bubble and never listen to critics. We all need to
listen to each other, and learn from out mistakes. We can't do that without both truth and hope.

Guess I must have peeped the other thread before it got shut down. It's a shame people can't have a valid debate without someone
jumping in and ruining it for those of us who can discuss things like civilized adults. Sorry that happened in your thread.

One would have to be a mental patient to deny the US government's role in global terror.

Edit***

Just one example with regards to your last thread.

During the Nuremberg trials, one of the most severe charges against the Germans was their intentional bombardment of dams. Less than a decade later,
the US employed the exact same tactic against the Koreans.

For 1945 bombing, you are not right, the other side were nazis.
Sorry for inocent victims, but that can not mean they were right.
That is what is going on, they want to make a situation to make a public opinion that nazi side were right, that can not be true!

I don't like proclaiming of underaged as an adults, before the courts.
Next, the time sentences are extremely long, sometimes absurdly (250 years of prison ??? Who can live so long?).
There is a problem, too, of accusing the extremely ritch people against those poor, even when it should be done.
Next, I don't like deposits for deffending from freedom. That is a kind of discrimination.
Surely, I am foreigner, but I know something about, I watched movies, and similar.

Death Penalty? If one killed more than 1 person, if not in self-deffence, I can not see the reason why should I worry about, if death penalty is
adjudicaded (is that right term, I am not judical? )
Surely, I wouldn't protest in case of less strong punishment, if not too small...

All those wars listed, and assorted endings of life. I am just cross refferencing.
Is there total amount of deaths, over all?
I am wondering, if they all add upto 1.5 billion? A number listed in the 6'th seal.

One would have to be a mental patient to deny the US government's role in global terror.

Edit***

Just one example with regards to your last thread.

During the Nuremberg trials, one of the most severe charges against the Germans was their intentional bombardment of dams. Less than a decade later,
the US employed the exact same tactic against the Koreans.

The Bombing of Dresden was a military attack on the city of Dresden, the capital of the German state of Saxony, that took place in the final months
of the Second World War. In four raids between 13 and 15 February 1945, 722 heavy bombers of the British Royal Air Force (RAF) and 527 of the United
States Army Air Forces (USAAF) dropped more than 3,900 tons of high-explosive bombs and incendiary devices on the city. The resulting firestorm
destroyed fifteen square miles (39 square kilometres) of the city centre and caused tens of thousands of civilian casualties.[1]

Shame on you for Showing a picture of a few soldiers doing unspeakable things, and trying to spin it too look like all of them did. As a veteran,
there was nothing more that 99% of us hated than to see such garbage trying to make us all look like that.

Attack on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon
September 11, 2001
Terrorist Conflict
Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida organization

Afghanistan War (Operation Enduring Freedom)
October 7, 2001-Present
War against Terrorism
The Taliban and Osama bin Laden's Al-Qaida organization

Third Persian Gulf War "Operation Iraqi Freedom"
March 19, 2003-Present
Inter-State War
Iraq

Hmm.... I wish my great,great,great,great,great Grand Parents invested in gun manufacturers.... Seriously though, from a biblical perspective the USA
reads alot like Assyria. On the plus side though, look at the nature of the wars. Sure there are some shady ones in there, but it isn't like the USA
tried to Conquer the world.

there has NEVER been a time of absolute peace in human history. EVER. That says it all.

What you guys are talking about, world peace, HAS NEVER existed. It is nothing short of a dramatic change in the human condition. I think the US is
great and all, but not that great. We can't do that.

No one can for the moment. There will always be war all over the planet, always has.

Are you really counting on a few decades to measure the span of human existence? So in a couple decades when some other culture is the military power
of the world, will they be responsible for the human condition?

Think bigger, long term. THAT is the only way to change the human condition.

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