Canada Goose jackets

In a time where PeTA has created awareness for animal rights and animal cruelty, the Canadian company Canada Goose has come out with a jackets made of real geese feathers and real coyote fur. I have started a protest campaign against these jackets.

Say 'NO' to Canada Goose jackets

About three months ago I noticed a colleague with a beautiful winter jacket. I asked her where she had bought this jacket and she stated it was very expensive. I thought this was a rather strange answer as I wasn’t interested in how much the jacket had cost, merely where she had bought it.She stated it was a Canada Goose jacket and only select stores carried it.

Back home I did some research on the Net and found the Canada Goose website, where a little more research revealed that these jackets were made with real feathers of geese and the material around the hoot was real coyote fur.Suddenly this beautiful jacket wasn’t so beautiful anymore. Real feathers and real fur ... had the Canada Goose company not heard of animal rights?My admiration for the Canada Goose jacket was instantly dead. More so, I wouldn’t have wanted a jacket if the company gave me one for free.

From that moment on the sighting of those jackets really irritated me. They irritated me to the point that I wanted to grab the wearer of the jacket and point out that an animal had died for him to parade around in this jacket. I saw the jackets as a slap in the face of every animal lover and animal rights activist.For weeks I brooded, wondering what I could do. Whenever I passed a Canada Goose jacket wearer I would accuse him of being an animal killer, but did the ‘killer’ hear me? I wanted to do something, but what?Then one day it came to me ... labels, I would put labels on the sleeves and back of my jacket that stated:

This is not a Canada Goose jacketFor i am not an animal killerSay ‘no’ to fur

Finally I had found my voice. The voice of protest. Wherever I saw the young fashion slaves flaunt their Canada Goose jacket, I would flaunt my badges.The label was read and I got some wonderful responses. Colleagues and strangers came up to me, stating “Good for you” or “I didn’t know about this” or just giving me the thumbs up.

Then today I got the ultimate revenge.I was in a full elevator where a woman read my badge and asked “Do they really use real fur?”“They sure do,” I replied. “The Canada Goose company traps coyotes for their fur and slaughters thousands of geese for their feathers.”Now it so happened that a young Chinese man stood in the center of the elevator wearing one of those Canada Goose jackets. So I made him a target.“See that fur around the hood of his jacket?” I said. “That’s real coyote fur.”Stone faced the guy stood staring at the elevator door, not looking left or right.I guess at that moment he didn’t feel like flaunting his apparel. From the looks of it he wanted to shrink to the size of a leprechaun and disappear through the floor of the elevator. Can you imagine, some twelve people looking at you like you with accusing eyes of being an animal killer?Upon reaching the ground floor he shot out of the elevator like an elastic and moved like he was on skates.Ah, revenge is sweet.

You will have to admit though, in a time where PeTA activists have made huge progress in creating awareness for animal cruelty, animal rights and have created a stigma around wearing real fur, it is rather insensitive, if not downright stupid of the Canada Goose company to use real fur for their jackets.

Of course this had to happen in Canada. Not only does Canada have this black mark on their name because of their continued seal hunt, now they are killing geese and coyotes as well. What will be next?

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Comments

Conny, wow.. not sure where the geese feathers would come from, but farmers often shoot coyotes when they kill livestock (not myself though, I just chase them away).please read the publication notes I sent.I may share this on reddit later.

the geese and ducks are slaughtered as food, and the down is used to make the coats, as for the coyote fur. the coyotes are hunted by the Inuit for food and the fur sold to line the coats fur. unfortunately in Canada, temperatures can get below -60 degrees Celsius in some parts and synthetic materials do not fare as well as natural products. there is no problems with using the fur of an animal as long as the rest of the animal is not wasted, it's no different then leather. If synthetic products lasted as long and performed better than the down and coyote fur i can guarantee they would be using them in their products instead.

People who live across Canada are now wearing these coats and temperatures do not fall below 60 degrees in most parts. I live in Ottawa and it is not that cold. I'm warm with my Wind River jacket and a hat. Fur is not a necessity here but a fashion statement.

Umm...no. Coyotes do not live north of sixty degrees latitude. Furthermore, their meat is tough and stringy, so even if they did cross paths with the Inuit (they don't) there would be no use for their flesh. They don't have enough fat to survive that far north. And, to top it all off, even Arctic fox pelts are considered flimsy and impractical by the Inuit and are not used as much more than napkins...or commodities that make them subservient to the white man.

I read your notes Mark, and while it's true that a number of coyotes are shot to protect livestock, I very much doubt that that number would be enough for fur supply. On the Canada Goose website they state that they kill their coyotes humanely, but is killing for fur ever humane? If I kill someone with a velvet glove, does that mean I killed humanely?Fur is wrong, period.As for moving this article, that's just fine, I wasn't sure where to put it.

You are not better you piece of sh1t ,why did you have to say young chinese man? why did you had to precise chinese? are you trying to cause hatred against them? if that person would be white or black , i assure you that you wouldnt precise it and you know that i am right , for the animal killing i am against it ,but the fact that you had to precise chinese , you are a not better than those animal killers.

Is chinese an offense these days? Is it racist to point out what race or origin a person is? I doubt this person could measure up to capitalistic pigs who rip the fur off of animals just to earn cash. Would it have been better if they had said 'asian'? C'mon. Just because you presume a person's origin doesn't make you dislike or loathe people of that origin. That statement made you sound like an oversensitive politically correct moron.

Wow, you are totally insane, I agree with the cruelty of animals and that there is no need for real fur on 95% on these coats, cut who the hell are you, are you a vegan, that wears no leather products, or doesnt drive a car, heat your home etc. A person that would do that to another person in an elevator has major problems, but I guess your just better than everyone else,

First off the use of synthetic materials is detrimental to the human condition and not only that, but the earth as well. They release toxins into the earth and into bodies of people which can be carcinogenic but can also lead to other diseases. We have given so many rights to animals, but you forget they serve a purpose too which is why they are here. They survive on instinct, not emotion. Yes we should always be humane and not have animal farms for the sole purpose to create fashionable attire, but to assist in the full circle of life. I don't eat walmart beef, I eat grass fed beef. I eat deer that we hunt and I wear fur coats because I get cold and I would rather be a part of the earth than create plastics, vinyls and poly materials that KILL us and and the earth- that includes the animals. The natives and "primitive" man had it right in their way of life. Our society now is insane and we are destroying the earth. You have to think of the big picture here. And what's up with the insults on here? Aren't we all in this together? Sheesh.

Ok, Lola, what about wool? Even polar explorers found wool to be much more practical than fur...which is processed with a variety of harsh chemicals like naphtha, toluene, and formaldehyde anyway to keep the pelts from rotting in your closet.

I just read your note, I am so happy to see that you are so positive towards this, however, I do not think that it is right for you to talk about Canada as if we are the only country that uses fur for fashion, I am not ok with animal cruelty but I am not ok with being a bully, and I feel that that is what you were to the poor kid on the elevator.

I have a coat here right now, I was not sure if I was going to buy it, since I also dont agree with killing for fashion. Can you please tell me where you got the information about Canada Goose “The Canada Goose company traps coyotes for their fur and slaughters thousands of geese for their feathers.” I would like to read it for myself.

It is still a free country and we should all have the rights to do as we please. you choose to not wear fur, the kid in the elevator chooses to do so.

Maritza, just go to the Canada Goose website and read their ridiculous fur policy... trying to pass it off as environmentally friendly.... and a renewable resource.. meaning.... the coyotes will continue to have babies even if we are trapping them in leg-hold traps....they also congratulate themselves for not using fur farms.... like being caught by the steel jaws of a trap in the snow... freezing .. petrified... then finally trying to chew your own leg off just to get out... much better...and more ridiulous.. trying to justify using coyote fur because nothing else will keep you warm... so have we all been freezing for the last 100 years? My mother is 86 years old... she's still alive and warm just wearing coats not made out of animal fur... I want to know what happens to the coyote hairless body once they are done.... not much is my guess....

It isn't your free right to wear fur when it is at the expense of an animal life. What selfish bull. Is it my free right to pee on your lawn or wear your skin as a jacket? What is the free right of the animal??

Maritza, if you told a man beating his dog on the street that he was doing something terrible, would that make you a bully? Would you say that it was his choice? Don't the animals get to choose whether or not they live?

Hi.. I agree with you on some points. Ofcourse I am against alls sort of animal cruelty! But wearing fur depends entirely on how the animal was killed. If it was killed for more then just its fur then i think it should be okey to wear it. Also if you find an old fur jacket/scarf or whatever in you grandmothers closet that has been forgotten and probably has like 40 years on its neck then i think it should be okey to be worn too.. Though these are just my own opinions.And when you say that “The Canada Goose company traps coyotes for their fur and slaughters thousands of geese for their feathers.”, do you actually have any solid proof of this or is this merely your own speculations? Also i agree with "Maritza".. Things will never get better if you just start bullying people.And what are you talking about? Revenge? I dont get it. Did this man do something personally against you? There are alot of other ways to shine some light on the matter of animal killing. I recommend you watch the movie "The Cove" if you havent already. Im sorry if im coming on to hard in the last half. I was just being objective.

When I was about 10 I was at a golf course and a cat had a litter of kittens maybe 2 weeks prior. One of the kittens decided to follow me so I led it into a small patch of trees. I picked up the kitten and wrapped my hands around its neck and squeezed until it managed to scratch me. By that time I had completely crushed its windpipe and it lay squirming and making a terrible wheezing sound on the ground. I found a nearby rock which was probably the size of three balled fists and weighed about 10 pounds. I bashed the kittens brains out of it's skull with this rock to put it out of the misery that is life on this earth.

Kinda makes you less angry at Canada Goose doesn't it?

I didn't do it for money or to create trade goods. I did it for pure pleasure.

Trophy hunters, pleasure killers, and animal torturers should be your enemies. Not consumers who may or may not be educated about the products they are buying.

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness... You think that kitten's animal rights to live outweighed my HUMAN right to seek and derive pleasure and happiness from ending its life?

I am an animal lover and activist and I am too an owner of a Canada Goose jacket. I did not buy the jacket for "status" or the "lifestyle" that inherently comes with owning one, I bought it simply for it's outstanding protection in sub-zero temperatures. Although I am not here to diminish your argument, and you have every right to voice your opinion, I however find it bothersome how many people make broad generalizations about owners of Canada Goose jackets. Yes, I know the jacket uses coyote fur, yes I know the jacket uses goose down, but to boycott the company and the wearers simply for those reasons? Is that not hypocritical? Do you eat meat, or do you wear leather? Animals used for livestock are treated so inhumanly that Im sure if you did the research you would think twice about your statements. Cant it be argued that animals used for leather serve the same purpose as do animals for fur? For human consumption. Also, does your statement saying that, "The Canada Goose company traps coyotes for their fur and slaughters thousands of geese for their feathers." have any information to sustain it? As far as I know, after doing some research, the collection of geese down does not involve the slaughtering of geese. Regardless, as stated in previous comments, people have the right to do as they please, so let them be. You have every right to keep your morals and beliefs, but please, don't try and force them into others. & also, just because a majority of people wear jackets for the "status" and truly don't care about animal rights, doesn't mean that every Canada Goose owner is the same.

How ridiculous can you get an animal lover trying to justify wearing shocking animal cruelty? The more people support this and buy them the more animals will be trapped. No geese are not slaughtered, everytime their down comes through it is plucked out , a painfull process for these ducks and geese. I myself don't eat or wear animals , it is not necessary but luxury fur on collars must be morally worse than foolish people who think they must eat animals to survive.

Why did you have to describe the man as "a Chinese guy". Why does it matter what his background is. Would you have said, "A white guy in the elevator etc etc"? No. So you felt the need to team up and target this poor kid on the elevator? *Point is, Canada Goose demonstrates animal cruelty, and that's that. It's not like the kid in the elevator really knew or cared if it was real fur or not when he purchased it. Just like when you complimented your colleague saying it was a "nice jacket", i'm sure the kid simply bought the coat because it was nice. Not because he was advocating for animal cruelty. If you're going to make a point, then make it clear and not contradicting supported by irrelevant additions to the story.

I too love animals and support the rights of animals. However, you have to realize that animals will continue being killed by humans for as long as we exist. Everything we buy, use, consume... will either directly or indirectly kill animals. Even those who are vegans or vegetarians are somehow negatively affecting the very animals that they are trying to protect. The forests or grasslands are destroyed for agricultural farms, not to mention the fertilizers and pesticides which have negative impacts on the environment from both the production and application of these chemicals.Try to have a bigger picture of the topic and you'll see that at the end of the day, humans will have to learn to balance the benefits and impacts in order to sustainably use the environment/animals.

But what about minimizing harm? Also, eating organically grown food eliminates the use of pesticides and synthetic fertilizers. And it takes much, much less land to grow vegetables--you can do it in your own backyard--than to graze cattle.

I love animals and I agree with your article. but same with some of the folks here, i don't see the point in pointing out a specific race, you could've just said a young man. instead of saying, a young "chinese" whatever.

I think you need to do a bit of research, "fake fur" that you see on other jackets, is actually cat and dog fur that has been chemically treated to feel fake. It is a lot cheaper for sweat shops to skin dogs and cats, then synthetically replicate fur.

Also, I would much rather buy these jackets from Canada, then anywhere else. We probably have the highest government regulations then any other country when it comes to protecting our country. I think it is totally okay to wear fur if you are native, or live in rural areas where the temperatures are in the negatives, because not everyone can afford gore-tex and Patagonia. The only thing that bothers me the most about these Canada Goose jackets, are people are wearing them in Southern Ontario, the coldest it gets here is -5, these people wearing Canada Goose coats that are intended for -25 degree weather must be boiling. Thats what bothers me, is that there is no need for them to be wearing this crap. Furthermore, if you're going to be against animal fur, you better be a vegetarian, because killing animals to eat, and killing animals to stay warm and alive are not so different.

First, I agree with most people here regarding you're racial slur. Describing that man as a "Chinese Guy" showcases how ignorant and full of hate you are.

But on a completely different note, I find it interesting that you target Canada Goose, and not any of the other brands that use goose feathers or fur. The North Face has been mass producing Goose Down Jackets for years, yet no one is targeting them. Instead of your label saying, "This is not a fur jacket," it says, "This is not a Canada Goose Jacket."

I am, of course, a supporter of the humane killing of animals. But it is completely unfair to single out and alienate people who own this specific brand. What you are doing is terrible.

First off, the way you treated that young "chinese" man was wrong, and disrespectful. How can you expect people to treat animals with respect when you yourself and most people can't treat others with respect. Secondly, I do not think it's fair to attack people who wear these jackets because the fact is they are isolated from the cruelty, and it is more than likely that the cruelty never crossed their minds. As well, there are many jackets that use goose down, so you shouldn’t be attacking a specific brand. In addition unless you are a strictly vegan in all aspects you have no business attacking people who wear these jackets. Even the consumption of eggs and dairy contributes to inhumane treatment of animals. I myself bought one of these jackets, because I liked it. I did not consider that it may have real fur on the hood, or the goose down feathers. I am not trying to defend my decision because I wish I hadn’t boughten it. But my point is if this issue is so important to you, you should be educating people on the issue not attacking there morality and bullying them. I personally would not have boughten the jacket had the cruelty been brought to my attention.

This story doesn't sit well with me. It seems that someone was snobby to the author answering 'this is a very expensive jacket' as though the author looked poor. Then the author took revenge by targeting Canada goose for animal cruelty, the reason that I see this as retaliation is because the button and protesting was specific to canada goose, if this weren't the case a more general anti-fur stance may have been more fitting and appropriate.

Also, the way the 'chinese man' was treated was incorrect. How can you fight animal cruelty by being cruel to humans? It seems like the retaliation was against the man for being able to afford the jacket. The undertone of bitterness to this article is quite strong and off-putting.

This jackets where meant to be worn in the most remote and humanly inhabitable places where having warmth is a matter of life and death. There is no technology that can provide the warmth of the animal's fur. I would like you to visit any of the northern territories of this country and see if you wouldn't pray for a warm jacket to prevent your face from freezing. It is disturbing the extreme fanaticism that people go to in order to make a point, a point that is poorly researched nor provides a full picture of the reality . I neither applaud nor condemn the use of animal products, I use them, 90% of us do, on a daily basis but I was also a vegan for 3 years as a way of being able to understand all the points of view. I respect your opinion, I agree with you in the fact that there is a lot of abuse when it comes to animal consumption, but Canada Goose and coyote hunting is far from being the pinnacle of the issue. You should focus your efforts in trans-national companies that torture cattle and chickens throughout their entire life, kill them in the most cruel and morally wrong way. You should focus your efforts in raising awareness of sustainable agriculture and farming, in the vitality of switching to an organic diet, and/or to support local markets and farmers whose ethical methods contribute to a more sustainable and renewable environment. The human race has and will use animal products, that is nature. It relies its survival on the use of them, however, I strongly agree that we must do it so in a sustainable and ethical way. I think that attacking and denigrating an individual to demonstrate your position is highly inappropriate, not to say abusive and socially incorrect. You have rights, I have rights, we all do, and your rights end where mine begin. I invite you to think about that before attacking a person, people's beliefs and an entire country in your extremist way of raising your voice regarding something that upsets you; I have lived in this wonderful country (Canada) for a long time and I am proud to say that Canada is one of the most environmentally conscious places you will find in the world.

"Canada is one of the most environmentally conscious places in the world." Umm...can you say "tar sands"?

And once more, I would like to point out that, in regard to the killing of animals to eat, two wrongs do not make a right.

Also, did you know that even polar explorers have said that fur is more of a burden than a godsend in Arctic climates because it gets soaked? Canada Goose excels at creating marketing myths, and the "Arctic" gambit is one of them.

i think people who own the canada goose jacket shouldnt be a target. people who say its animal cruelty to the people wearing it should shut up just cause they cant afford it we all know so by saying that they make it seem they dont want it because your hurting an animal when im pretty sure your not but because they cant AFFORD IT SO YOU PEOPLE WHO CANT AFFORD A GOOSE JUST SHUT THE HELL UP ALREADY !.

Anonymous..everyone is entitled to their opinion and my opinion is that someone as uneducated, ignorant, and stupid as you should not be entitled to an opinion. I can afford to have this jacket in every colour and style if I wished to have it. But I have zero. Money is not the issue you damn high school drop out.

Honestly, shame on you for picking on the guy in the elevator. It's one thing to protest animal cruelty and another to blatantly accuse an individual of being a killer because they wear Canada Goose. How do you know he didn't receive the coat as a gift or that he, too, did not realize it was actual fur?Regardless, there will always be people in the world that will want to purchase from Canada Goose or similar companies for not only fashion purposes but practicality. Their jackets and hats are warm because of the down and fur. I have no qualms with dressing myself and family in their products if it means we will stay warm and comfortable.

Not to mention, killing animals for meat and fur will never stop because of their value. Otherwise, the economy (around the world) would collapse and millions of jobs would be lost. At the end of the day, if it really came down to saving the lives of coyotes, geese, cows, etc and having a more stable economy what do you think people (yourself included) will choose. I'm not condoning animal cruelty but realistically I know that by boycotting every company that does things immorally will leave me with absolutely nothing and not change a thing in the world. A person can do great things for the world but there is always a limit.

On a sidenote, it is irrelevant that the individual sporting Canada Goose was "Chinese". Even if it was, I'm sure you were too busy arrogantly trying to force your viewpoints on people and ridiculing someone to confirm the facts.

By the way, Canada Goose issued a disclaimer that they only use no live-plucking down and that they do not approve of animal cruelty.

I find it personally offensive that you decided to point out the ethnic background of the person in the elevator. Sure you want to irritate the general public with your view, but do you really need to point out that the young man in the elevator is "Chinese". When did race ever play into this? And hell-how do you know he's specifically "Chinese", did you ask him before your inflammatory comment? Or did you judge him by his eyes and skin color? It's funny how you are judging someone based on what they wear, because it reflects on how you discriminate others based on race as well.

Conny you have a right to your opinions but no reason to attack a complete stranger as you did. In promoting your own beliefs you assaulted someone else. What the heck gives YOU that right??? It makes you a bully and a true enemy of humankind.As a radical (as you are) you are scarier than any hunter.

I have a Canada Goose parka. My husband has a down parka from another company. We live in Quebec without a car. In order to be out all winter long winter long on foot we need extremely warm winter clothing. I am comfortable with how Canada Goose acquires their fur and feathers and I feel that owning one of their products has made it far easier for me to live carfree in an extreme climate. Surely the environment comes out ahead with our family owning warm winter clothing that uses animal products over a gas-guzzling automobile that consumes countless resources during its production and deliver to the retail market.

I worry how people have become so overly concerned about the well being of animals, and not about the well being of humans. Why is no one taking action against the clothes we wear that were made in Bangladesh, or Cambodia where people are working long hours, making less than minimum wage, and working in dangerous conditions with dangerous chemicals and machinery? The feathers are taken from livestock, and as far as I am concerned as long as they are using all of the animal, then it's not a huge issue. If Canada Goose is doing everything as humanely as they say they are, then that is more than can be said for a lot of Companies. It is a right to buy any of those jackets, and if you don't want to purchase it yourself then don't. Conny, you aren't getting any "revenge" on the Canada Goose company like you think you are, you are just bullying other human beings, which in no way does anything towards the company. I am positive that the man from the elevator did not go home and throw out his jacket. Also, I don't think your comment was necessarily racist as another had pointed out, but it is a tiny bit bizarre you found the need to point out he was "Chinese", do you know for a fact that he was from China? I just wanted to leave a comment because I find your view quite radical, I am all for freedom of speech, but it also seems your compassion lies only in protecting animals that would be slaughtered anyway, rather than compassion for your fellow man.

So called "animal rights" protectors should care more about homeless people, children who starved to death in Africa and other Western colonies. Care about people first, buy less and eat less, remember about starvation arround the world, help to homeless people. And then you will not have time for such a stupid ideas about goose feathers. Conny you might be just jealousy, stop writing bull sh..t, work harder, and you can afford such a nice jacket!

Calling him out in front of all the people in the elevator was very rude. And was "Chinese" really necessary? How do you know his race? Passive racism much. And if you eat meat or wear any kind of leather you really shouldn't be in a position to criticize people for wearing fur. I suggest you watch Food. Inc or Slaughter house before criticizing other people for the use of fur. Clothing containing synthetics or cheap fur from overseas third world countries are probably far worse to the environment and the workers making the products. Cats and dogs are bred and cramped in tiny cages only to be skinned alive and tossed away. Thousands of workers and children are harassed and forced to work with little or no access to clean food or water and are paid barely enough to survive. All manufactured goods have some degree of harm but please do not judge and humiliate others before looking at your own lifestyle first. There are so many issues in the world so maybe put your part into making it a better place.

I agree with the fact that using fur and feathers may not okay. However, the way you came about writing this article was a little out of line. I understand having your own beliefs (I'm a vegetarian so I am questioned about my beliefs constantly) but publically humiliating someone is a little offside. Bashing someone is much less credible than if you were to simply educate that person. Also the harsh comments regarding Canada were very uncalled for. If you had done your research you would know that animal furs are being hunted from many parts of the world.

Next time I would suggest doing your research and not writing based solely on your emotion. You lose credibility.

Again, I do agree that the use of fur is wrong..but those are my own personal beliefs...I would never want to force feed or make anyone feel uncomfortable for their own beliefs.

Okay, Conny...After all those rebuttals, I just wanted to give you a big thumbs up about the patches on your jacket. I think I'm going to do the same thing this winter. That's a very novel form of activism!

interesting thoughts. i find it fascinating that the in your face "activism" is deemed as a human retaliation for the use of natural animal products. If you are going to look into the idea that "animal rights" are being violated then i assume you wear no make up, do not use any scents of any sort, no essential oils, are vegan or simply do not eat and so on. "life"begets life"and without taking the essence of life from something you cannot have life yourself. you can neither create nor destroy energy, thats a fundamental principle tought in grade school. if you are looking at the basic principles of the universe and saying you will not "take life" then you will die. A flower is no less iportant than a goose of a coyote...and just as useful. My wife and i have goodse filled mittens, canada goose jackets, rabbit fur hooded bebe coats, fox hooded jackets from banff alberta etc...and without then we'd freee in -50 celcius with the wind chill. We are very natural, love animals, hae horses, cats, dogs, and three kids...we do not buy our kids real fur jackets because they keep warm enough without them but they do hae real leather shoes because they are healthier and more resilient to wear and tear. Miss. Conny, i can only assume you are hipoctate for writing the article if you have eaten today. We are all energy on the most basic level, if an animal is used in a useful manner and killed in a human way then that is the way of the universe. its the appropriation of useable materials in a responsible way to maintain the life we live. When we are in hawaii in 2 weeks we wont be bringin our jackets because it'd be a waste. but we will kill some serious vegitation to eat. if i see you wearing a dont slaughter harmless veggies i'll give you a high five and tell you to keep on rockin'. remember on the most basic of level energetically, everything is the same we are no different than a flower, tree, fox, another human or anything else made up of the buiding blocks of the uiverse. you've just picked a fight for the sake of picking one. i feel your anger is misplaced and although it is your right to voice your opinion it is no more your right to judge than it is mine. reflect a little more before you point fingers dear conny and remember your opinion only matters to you and in relation to the universe you are not as important as you think you are...and neither am i:)