Klaudandus wrote:Seeing how Flex Garrosh wont be available till Oct 15, and LFR Garrosh a week later, I imagine the bemoaning of getting burnout will be somewhat quelled

I know that belittling people who see the burnout issue is the hip thing to do these days, but I fail to see why that wouldn't represent the beginning of the real burnout phase.

Is it your position that everyone will already have everything they need from the last wing of the raid before Oct. 22nd? While that may be true for you, I assure you my raid will not have seen Garrosh by then, much less had a kill. We'll still be running LFR and Flex to get the gear we need to get a Garrosh kill.

Even the ones that have cleared him each week will not mean everyone has everything they want/need. My raid has 12 Horridon kills (yes, we're quite slow, and started late), but the healing trinket has only dropped once. The axe from Jin'Rokh has only dropped once in 16 kills. Random loot is random.

I went all of 5.2 and 5.3 without getting any gear off Nalak, even with Bonus rolls. I am known here for having terrible luck on drops, going more than 35 times in a row not getting heroic never ending winter -- Nika and I often bet who will be the last one to get a shield in their respective raid.

I know bad RNG, I dance with it often... I just won't kill myself doing content I don't want.

Klaudandus wrote:I went all of 5.2 and 5.3 without getting any gear off Nalak, even with Bonus rolls. I am known here for having terrible luck on drops, going more than 35 times in a row not getting heroic never ending winter -- Nika and I often bet who will be the last one to get a shield in their respective raid.

I know bad RNG, I dance with it often... I just won't kill myself doing content I don't want.

That's fine, and your raid history and performance is probably such that your raid lead isn't hounding you to run additional content to improve your performance, and you're probably comfortable with your performance so as not to feel the need to fill in gaps from lower tier content, so you're not really in the "at risk" group for burnout.

Are you actually being hounded by your RL to complete LFR and Flex? I think your RL needs to access his priorities. I always imagined burnout to be a bit of a self imposed phenomenon i.e. "I should probably run LFR in case that offhand drops so i can up my dps a little more and we can beat that enrage".

There's a lot of wannabe-hardcore-RLs and guilds who, despite their skill being far below a real heroic raider, demand their raid team to put the same effort of a top end hc raider would do.

I've seen those guilds on some friends and I'm like, why is your RL stressing you so much if anyway you can't even clear normal? Having 1 more ilvl wont really make your guildies stand out of fire.

theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.

I've seen those guilds on some friends and I'm like, why is your RL stressing you so much if anyway you can't even clear normal? Having 1 more ilvl wont really make your guildies stand out of fire.

Can't fix people? Carry them with more numbers instead so that you limp across instead of wiping to 2% when you finally get to P3.

That's essentially what the entire point of item upgrades, raid nerfs, etc. is and the atmosphere that the majority of raiders experience anyway. Hell, that's the entire point of the "gear from lower difficulty modes" to begin with.

There's also a slight difference between "1 more ilvl" and "the gear once can get out of repeatedly farming LFR when unable to full clear Normal".

I've seen those guilds on some friends and I'm like, why is your RL stressing you so much if anyway you can't even clear normal? Having 1 more ilvl wont really make your guildies stand out of fire.

Can't fix people? Carry them with more numbers instead so that you limp across instead of wiping to 2% when you finally get to P3.

That's essentially what the entire point of item upgrades, raid nerfs, etc. is and the atmosphere that the majority of raiders experience anyway. Hell, that's the entire point of the "gear from lower difficulty modes" to begin with.

There's also a slight difference between "1 more ilvl" and "the gear once can get out of repeatedly farming LFR when unable to full clear Normal".

I think it will be funny when Flex raid leaders look at damage dealt vs healing taken numbers for baddies, run a simple utility calculation on the boss scaling effect, and then say "You are actively making this fight harder for us, we'd be better off with less people than with you here"

I've seen those guilds on some friends and I'm like, why is your RL stressing you so much if anyway you can't even clear normal? Having 1 more ilvl wont really make your guildies stand out of fire.

Can't fix people? Carry them with more numbers instead so that you limp across instead of wiping to 2% when you finally get to P3.

That's essentially what the entire point of item upgrades, raid nerfs, etc. is and the atmosphere that the majority of raiders experience anyway. Hell, that's the entire point of the "gear from lower difficulty modes" to begin with.

There's also a slight difference between "1 more ilvl" and "the gear once can get out of repeatedly farming LFR when unable to full clear Normal".

I think it will be funny when Flex raid leaders look at damage dealt vs healing taken numbers for baddies, run a simple utility calculation on the boss scaling effect, and then say "You are actively making this fight harder for us, we'd be better off with less people than with you here"

It will be interesting to see the tradeoff between the lower difficulty level vs the deadweight that increases boss health and damage..

Someone needs to write an addon for that.

Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.

Fetzie wrote:The Defias Brotherhood is back, and this time they are acting as racketeers in Goldshire. Anybody wishing to dance for money must now pay them protection money or be charged triple the normal amount when repairing.

Sabindeus wrote:I think it will be funny when Flex raid leaders look at damage dealt vs healing taken numbers for baddies, run a simple utility calculation on the boss scaling effect, and then say "You are actively making this fight harder for us, we'd be better off with less people than with you here"

The same sociopolitical issues that prevent removal of under-performing people from friends-and-family raids still apply, whether norm, flex, or heroic. The people who gear and groom their toons will always make up for those who don't.

Take the 26 best players in the world, and you will have 1 guy who is the worst. Excluding him instead of one of the other 25 makes the raid slightly easier for everyone.

The tipping point is where you have so many people who are undergeared, underknowledged, or underskilled that the group is unable complete the encounter. As long as you can complete the encounter, does it really matter if you carry someone who's just learning the fight?

Flex should be balanced anticipating some better people will be there to help carry some worse people. Inventing an add-on to identify the worse will surely make the encounter easier for all concerned, but it will make it exponentially tougher to break into Flex PUGs for people who are learning the fight, or an undergeared alt, etc. who may be a future asset, but for now are a bit below average.

And of course such an add-on would have to quantify performance, which as we all know is equal for all classes on all fights... Oh wait. Well, if you're not an optimal class for the first boss, I am sure a PuG would be patient and let you continue to the next. Oh wait. And then I am sure a Flex PuG would respect the design goal of Flex to have a variety of people and would take people who are 90%-capable for the fight... Um, no. The people running it would be the "Link FlexScore in excess of 110% capable or no inv" type, whose personal FlexScore would be in the 80s. Don't you people remember the GearScore days?

Sabindeus wrote:Of course I remember the GearScore days, but in those days I was in a guild and didn't have to PUG things...

SO basically what you're saying is I should unleash this add-on on an unsuspecting world and watch it crumble? >:D

Well, the other side of the argument is that any Flex group with more than 10 people will be kicking the lowest DPS if they wipe, so you might as well quantify it so they have a consistent measuring stick to beat each other with.

That's what you think Kysen. Remember Gear Score. People abuse such kind of scores, and will start demanding you a certain FlexScore before even inviting you.

theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.