You know me, never at a lost when it comes to having an opinion on the zeitgeist. The last few days, it has all been about race and race relations, sparked by ‘The Gates Affair’. For those who are unaware, here is the back story.

Harvard University Professor, Henry (Skip) Louis Gates Jr., returns home from a trip and finds that his door will not open. He and his black driver try to force the door which is witnessed by a resident in the neighborhood. The neighbor dutifully calls the police because it looks like two men are trying to break into a house.

Once the police arrive, Prof. Skip Gates has found his way into his home, and answers their knock on the door. From there it’s all downhill and a matter of whose story you choose to believe. You can read the newspaper accounts of the incident by visiting here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32077998/ns/us_news-race_and_ethnicity/.

President Obama during his press conference commented on the situation with a reckless choice of words. It was almost as though the visceral reaction churning in the pit of his stomach found their way to his mouth before his brain could coordinate with his mouth to deliver his thoughts in polispeak. Instead he chose to say that the police “acted stupidly.” That you can read about by visiting here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32122967/ns/us_news-race_and_ethnicity/.

I am writing this though not to regurgitate facts or figure out fiction but to let you know what I think, so here it is.

I think that everyone started off right and ended up wrong. Prof. Gates was not wrong to try to enter his own home, the neighbor was not wrong in calling the police, the police were not wrong to investigate. Where everyone went wrong was with the events that led up to the arrest of Prof. Gates.

If the neighbor had not called to report a possible break in, and it was, then this would have been framed as a racist neighbor not caring because they knew it was the home of a Black Professor.

If the police had not shown up to investigate, and there was a break in, this would have been framed as the racist police department not caring that the home of a black intellectual was being broken into.

If the police had not insisted on making sure that there was no one else in the house because they had a credible report that there were two men trying to force open a door, then this would have been framed differently had there been people in the house that the professor was not aware of. The police had to make sure that the story fit all the facts in front of them.

The Prof. Gates could have been more cordial with the men and women in blue who were looking out for his best interest when they showed up to investigate a report of a break and enter at his home.

Now here is where it gets tricky, maybe he was. Maybe he was cordial and tried to explain the situation about the door being jammed, but the police needed to be sure he lived there…or did they? It is possible that they did ask him for the one thing that they would not have asked of anyone who was not black…absolute proof that he belonged in that house.

By “absolute” I don’t mean show me your driver’s license with your address on it, but show me that you are the legal owner of this house. I can see that happening and it would easily explain the Professor’s rage, if indeed that did occur. There is thorough, and then there is thorough! But I have no proof that did happen so it is a thought that I am just callously tossing out there.

What we do know is that Prof. Gates was arrested in his home. This is the real tricky part of the scenario. How do you get arrested in your own home without having committed any crime? And this is where the police were wrong in their actions and to what the President might have been referring to as acting stupidly.

Before I explain, let me just say that I believe the police officer, Sgt. James Crowley. I believe he is an honest man, a good man, a decent man. I believe he believes he had every right to arrest Prof. Gates, and the facts, of the case, prove that he did. The only problem, I have, is with the discretion used in making this particular arrest.

The police finally figured out that this middle aged, walking with a cane, 155 pound, unarmed man really was the owner and they arrested him for being verbally abusive? I mean, he didn’t threaten them, in his home, in any way except with his tongue. That you can be arrested in your home for being verbally abusive to strangers in your home- notwithstanding the badges- is outrageous! Where was the cause for this arrest? He was mean to me…so I arrested him?

All of this brings me back to the question, what do I think? I think this was not a black and white issue. This was a pure intellectual brute power struggle. This was Prof. Gates and Sgt. Crowley engaged in a battle to exert futile intellectual control, one over the other. It was UFC Battle of the Brains part 1.
Prof. Gates never believed he was being picked on for being black, he just felt he was being picked on and chose the tools/words which he felt were appropriate to defend himself. The Officer was never threatened but felt that his stature as an office of the law was being maligned and he used the tools and remedies at his disposal.

At the end of the day both were right in their actions and both were so very wrong. That these two good men could allow a clear misunderstanding to lead the President to make his unfortunate comments is inexcusable. They really all should just meet up in the White House, have that beer that the President offered and have a good laugh at how silly they all were.

Troll

07-24-2009, 10:58 PM

This is a scandal - I'm actually surprised that every liberal who gets paid to have an opinion in this country haven't started calling this 'Gatesgate' yet. :rolleyes:

I don't know anything about police protocol, but I do know that if Gates were a white man, the only people who would have heard about this would have been his students. Shame on him. Shame on the media. Shame on the sycophants who lap up whatever double-standard the media feeds them.

Bubba Dawg

07-24-2009, 11:03 PM

Hello and welcome.

Your comment is interesting.

To me, there are many people with a built in response to this incident depending on whether their pre-existing and typical opinion is pro/con the role of the police in general, and/or pro/con as to the existence and practice of racial profiling in general.

I doubt that the contrary parties will do anything but disagree.

megimoo

07-24-2009, 11:23 PM

Snip

"Harvard University Professor, Henry (Skip) Louis Gates Jr., returns home from a trip and finds that his door will not open. He and his black driver try to force the door which is witnessed by a resident in the neighborhood. The neighbor dutifully calls the police because it looks like two men are trying to break into a house.

'Skip',now where did you get that ? He is a full Harvard professor and department head .Nobody would call him 'skip' in public !
.......................
Once the police arrive, Prof. Skip Gates has found his way into his home, and answers their knock on the door. From there it’s all downhill and a matter of whose story you choose to believe. You can read the newspaper accounts of the incident by visiting here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32077998/ns/us_news-race_and_ethnicity/.
..............................
President Obama during his press conference commented on the situation with a reckless choice of words. It was almost as though the visceral reaction churning in the pit of his stomach found their way to his mouth before his brain could coordinate with his mouth to deliver his thoughts in polispeak. Instead he chose to say that the police “acted stupidly.” That you can read about by visiting here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32122967/ns/us_news-race_and_ethnicity/.

I am writing this though not to regurgitate facts or figure out fiction but to let you know what I think, so here it is.
...............................
I think that everyone started off right and ended up wrong. Prof. Gates was not wrong to try to enter his own home, the neighbor was not wrong in calling the police, the police were not wrong to investigate. Where everyone went wrong was with the events that led up to the arrest of Prof. Gates.
........................
If the neighbor had not called to report a possible break in, and it was, then this would have been framed as a racist neighbor not caring because they knew it was the home of a Black Professor.
..........................
If the police had not shown up to investigate, and there was a break in, this would have been framed as the racist police department not caring that the home of a black intellectual was being broken into.
..................................
If the police had not insisted on making sure that there was no one else in the house because they had a credible report that there were two men trying to force open a door, then this would have been framed differently had there been people in the house that the professor was not aware of. The police had to make sure that the story fit all the facts in front of them.
............................
The Prof. Gates could have been more cordial with the men and women in blue who were looking out for his best interest when they showed up to investigate a report of a break and enter at his home.

"Cordial.?.The police didn't know who these guys were and they refused to identify themselves !
..............................
Now here is where it gets tricky, maybe he was. Maybe he was cordial and tried to explain the situation about the door being jammed, but the police needed to be sure he lived there…or did they? It is possible that they did ask him for the one thing that they would not have asked of anyone who was not black…absolute proof that he belonged in that house.

"If he identified himself none of this would have happened but in his arrogance he refused to !"
....................................
By “absolute” I don’t mean show me your driver’s license with your address on it, but show me that you are the legal owner of this house. I can see that happening and it would easily explain the Professor’s rage, if indeed that did occur. There is thorough, and then there is thorough! But I have no proof that did happen so it is a thought that I am just callously tossing out there.

"You're being pretty slick but it doesn't stick !"
............................
......................
What we do know is that Prof. Gates was arrested in his home. This is the real tricky part of the scenario. How do you get arrested in your own home without having committed any crime? And this is where the police were wrong in their actions and to what the President might have been referring to as acting stupidly.
..................................
Before I explain, let me just say that I believe the police officer, Sgt. James Crowley. I believe he is an honest man, a good man, a decent man. I believe he believes he had every right to arrest Prof. Gates, and the facts, of the case, prove that he did. The only problem, I have, is with the discretion used in making this particular arrest.
............................
The police finally figured out that this middle aged, walking with a cane, 155 pound, unarmed man really was the owner and they arrested him for being verbally abusive? I mean, he didn't threaten them, in his home, in any way except with his tongue. That you can be arrested in your home for being verbally abusive to strangers in your home- notwithstanding the badges- is outrageous! Where was the cause for this arrest? He was mean to me…so I arrested him?
................................
All of this brings me back to the question, what do I think? I think this was not a black and white issue. This was a pure intellectual brute power struggle. This was Prof. Gates and Sgt. Crowley engaged in a battle to exert futile intellectual control, one over the other. It was UFC Battle of the Brains part 1.
Prof. Gates never believed he was being picked on for being black, he just felt he was being picked on and chose the tools/words which he felt were appropriate to defend himself. The Officer was never threatened but felt that his stature as an office of the law was being maligned and he used the tools and remedies at his disposal.
...............................
At the end of the day both were right in their actions and both were so very wrong. That these two good men could allow a clear misunderstanding to lead the President to make his unfortunate comments is inexcusable. They really all should just meet up in the White House, have that beer that the President
offered and have a good laugh at how silly they all were.[/QUOTE]

Your take on all of this is very interesting but let me guess . you are a black liberal correct ?.
.

SarasotaRepub

07-24-2009, 11:25 PM

meowmeow's an old timer here at CU, one of the first members in fact. Garfield, let me know what to bump your post count to if you remember and if you care. :D

Good OP. The cop should have beaten the black prof with his cane after he dissed him.:mad:

JUST KIDDING!!!!!!!!!:D

I think it was a local issue that might have made the big time...maybe. When the Prez opened his big mouth about it...front page gold.

I'm not sure if Obama just had a case of Teh Stupid's or realized he really blew the health care thingy and was just looking for cover...

stsinner

07-24-2009, 11:32 PM

Whether it's pleasant, or not, the fact is that blacks commit the lion's share of these types of crimes, so for a police officer to be suspicious of a black man is profiling, but it's necessary and fact-based profiling..

Professor Gates should be mad at those of his own race who have made it so that the police automatically suspect a black man in this country and not a white man.. The root of the problem is not only the antennae that Professor Gates had up looking for any racial incident he could latch onto to get his 15 minutes of fame, but also the stereotype that blacks in general have EARNED in this country.

It sucks for the good ones, but it's up to them to turn things around.. They can't just keep blaming whitey when they're stopped at disproportionate rates, as Obama put it..

From a New Century Foundation study:

Major Findings:

* Police and the justice system are not biased against minorities.

Crime Rates

* Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery.
* When blacks commit crimes of violence, they are nearly three times more likely than non-blacks to use a gun, and more than twice as likely to use a knife.
* Hispanics commit violent crimes at roughly three times the white rate, and Asians commit violent crimes at about one quarter the white rate.
* The single best indicator of violent crime levels in an area is the percentage of the population that is black and Hispanic.

Interracial Crime

* Of the nearly 770,000 violent interracial crimes committed every year involving blacks and whites, blacks commit 85 percent and whites commit 15 percent.
* Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against blacks. Forty-five percent of their victims are white, 43 percent are black, and 10 percent are Hispanic. When whites commit violent crime, only three percent of their victims are black.
* Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against a white than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit robbery.
* Blacks are 2.25 times more likely to commit officially-designated hate crimes against whites than vice versa.

Link (http://www.colorofcrime.com/colorofcrime2005.html)

megimoo

07-24-2009, 11:32 PM

meowmeow's an old timer here at CU, one of the first members in fact. Garfield, let me know what to bump your post count to if you remember and if you care. :D

Good OP. The cop should have beaten the black prof with his cane after he dissed him.:mad:

JUST KIDDING!!!!!!!!!:D

I think it was a local issue that might have made the big time...maybe. When the Prez opened his big mouth about it...front page gold.

I'm not sure if Obama just had a case of Teh Stupid's or realized he really blew the health care thingy and was just looking for cover...
A much simpler explanation is that both Gates and Obama are the racists and the cop was just following police procedure !If Gates were white and he refused to identify himself he would be in the slammer now for resisting arrest and obstructing justice,a tempest in a teacup .

Sonnabend

07-24-2009, 11:36 PM

How do you get arrested in your own home without having committed any crime? And this is where the police were wrong in their actions and to what the President might have been referring to as acting stupidly.Because the officer decided that this man was acting irrationally, was abusing him (and thats a nono in any way shape or form) and that said behaviour gave the officer reasonable cause to believe the man may be lying.

Probable cause: reported break in. Possible motive: Burglary

The officer did his job and asked for ID. The man became abusive and refused. The cop then concluded that he may have a possible crime here and arrested the man.

Given the circumstances, given the events that led up to this point, for Gates to show his ID would have been the rational and simplest way of solving this issue quickly and quietly.

Three years ago, two cops came to my place because I had left my keys inside. I climbed in through a window. They asked for ID. I handed it to them, embarrassed. They read it, laughed kindly, commiserated and said that they too had had this happen to them, thanked me, then I thanked them for keeping an eye out.

One of the cops was an Asian. Did I cry race? Foul?

Nope, I knew they were doing the job they were there to do, and that they had acted on probable cause.

None of this would have happened had Gates simply shown his ID...the cop would have apologised, reminded the guy that they had had news of a possible break in at his home.

The only racist here is Gates

Jfor

07-24-2009, 11:37 PM

Because the officer decided that this man was acting irrationally, was abusing him (and thats a nono in any way shape or form) and that said behaviour gave the officer reasonable cause to believe the man may be lying.

Probable cause: reported break in. Possible motive: Burglary

The officer did his job and asked for ID. The man became abusive and refused.

Bingo...

stsinner

07-24-2009, 11:38 PM

Because the officer decided that this man was acting irrationally, was abusing him (and thats a nono in any way shape or form) and that said behaviour gave the officer reasonable cause to believe the man may be lying.

Probable cause: reported break in. Possible motive: Burglary

The officer did his job and asked for ID. The man became abusive and refused.

Also, no one acting maturely and intelligently would EVER get arrested in their own home if a mistaken break-in was reported.. He acted like a racist asshole.

Sonnabend

07-24-2009, 11:44 PM

The police finally figured out that this middle aged, walking with a cane, 155 pound, unarmed man really was the owner

A month ago cops arrested a 72 year old woman for heroin smuggling. Age etc is irrelevant to this issue.

Jfor

07-24-2009, 11:50 PM

As a former LEO, I treated everyone I came in contact with as a potential threat. It kept me safe and let me make it home every morning. Every traffic stop I treated as if the people in the car were potential threats. Were they? 99% of the time they weren't. I treated every person like treated me. If they treated me like shit, they got it back with a nice sir or ma'am. 99.9% of the traffic tickets I wrote started out as a warning and the person's attitude decided if they got a ticket or not.

That being said, I will take the officer's side of the story first before all the facts come out. In this case, the officer was right.

Sonnabend

07-24-2009, 11:53 PM

Dunno about the US but here? Abusing a cop gets you arrested.

As it should be.

SaintLouieWoman

07-24-2009, 11:53 PM

At the end of the day both were right in their actions and both were so very wrong. That these two good men could allow a clear misunderstanding to lead the President to make his unfortunate comments is inexcusable. They really all should just meet up in the White House, have that beer that the President offered and have a good laugh at how silly they all were.

The President should not be led to make an unfortunate comment. Obama was intemporate, not checking the facts, reverting to his community organizer days, dragging up racism. He's a grown up and needs to take responsibility for his remarks.

The police take a lot of abuse. I'm sure they weren't thrilled when they were trying to help the professor and were subjected to the racially charged torrent of accusations.

BTW, MM and I have tangled in the past, but have always respected him as he's a thoughtful person who doesn't revert to the name-calling. We might not agree all the time, but we've had good discussions.

Now this is a person with which to hone your debate skills. He comes highly recommended. :D

SaintLouieWoman

07-24-2009, 11:59 PM

A month ago cops arrested a 72 year old woman for heroin smuggling. Age etc is irrelevant to this issue.

Very recently here a local NBC affiliate featured an "expose" on cops parking in front of fire hydrants in front of police headquarters. They have perhaps 20% of the spaces needed. The city of STL won't let them use their parking lot. If they have biz at HQ, they need to park somewhere.

Soooo, the reporters took pics of police cars, made a big deal out of it. Now they are whining that, surprise, surprise, the cops have issued probably 20 times the tickets on the reporters' cars than normal.

The station is saying that they must park wherever they can to get the story.

How is that different than cops parking where they need to do their job? :rolleyes:

patriot45

07-25-2009, 12:08 AM

A much simpler explanation is that both Gates and Obama are the racists and the cop was just following police procedure !If Gates were white and he refused to identify himself he would be in the slammer now for resisting arrest and obstructing justice,a tempest in a teacup .

Pussy cats story was nice, but I like your take on it. Jfors too.

lacarnut

07-25-2009, 12:09 AM

As a former LEO, I treated everyone I came in contact with as a potential threat. It kept me safe and let me make it home every morning. Every traffic stop I treated as if the people in the car were potential threats. Were they? 99% of the time they weren't. I treated every person like treated me. If they treated me like shit, they got it back with a nice sir or ma'am. 99.9% of the traffic tickets I wrote started out as a warning and the person's attitude decided if they got a ticket or not.

That being said, I will take the officer's side of the story first before all the facts come out. In this case, the officer was right.

You said a mouthful there. I have talked my way out of many speeding tickets by being respectful. The policeman has a badge, a gun and a job to do. If you want to show your ass with a cop and it makes you feel good, go for it. I am going to do just the opposite.

I have got a feeling that this negro has an attitude against whites, cops and is a racist.

jediab

07-25-2009, 12:35 AM

Police officers jobs are hard enough that they don't need my punk ass giving them any trouble if they pull me over. It's probably because of me being polite, not arguing, and in some cases owning up to my mistakes that has me ticketless in my 20 plus years of driving. *knocks on wood*. That and I obey the traffic laws :D

Elspeth

07-25-2009, 12:38 AM

To the OP:

I think the OP is onto something. Up to the point of the confrontation (whatever it was) between Gates and Crowley, no one was doing anything legally wrong.

*Gates was trying to get into his house. (The wisdom of breaking in as opposed to calling a locksmith is a debatable point, but as someone who has broken into my own house in the past, through a basement window that was always a little loose, I can't really talk.)

*The woman, who, like most of us in the US, didn't know her neighbors very well, saw what she thought was a robbery and called the police. We should all have such attentive neighbors when we are away. We should also get to know our neighbors better.

*The police came out, checked out the situation and asked for identification. This was their job.

So far so good.

I think the OP is correct in that there was a battle for supremacy and control. Academics are used to pontificating and talking down to their "non-peers"--this includes graduate students, staff, university security, part time or non-tenured professors, and anyone else they can bully. I've seen it in action. Some cops are ALSO this way: they subtley threaten a normal person in the way they act, talk, and by the very fact that they are carrying a gun and have the power to arrest you. When an academic meets a cop, there can be a major power struggle, especially if, as is common in academia, the academic type hates/distrusts the police for whatever reason OR if the cop, as is common among cops, hates being challenged in any way.

However, no matter what happened between the two, I find myself agreeing with Larry Elder, who was on the Sean Hannity radio show today. Elder talked to some of his cop friends and, to a person, they said that Crowley let Gates get under his skin. They said that the arrest was unnecessary. Elder stated, as I believe, that once the proper ID was shown, Crowley should have left the house: mission accomplished. I have said this before on this board: once the ID was verified the cop should have left.

I say this because this very situation happened to my dad once when I was a kid. We went away for a month long vacation and my dad asked the local police to watch the house, which they did. One night, my dad had to travel back (about an hour and a half drive from the vacation town) for a work related thing that he couldn't get out of. After working, my dad did not feel awake enough to drive back to the vacation town (where we all were) and drove home instead. As soon as he entered the house, a police car drove up behind him. The cop got out and demanded my dad's ID. Instead of getting ticked off, my dad, realizing the cops were doing their job, showed the cop all his IDs and thanked the cop for watching his house so well. The whole thing went well, although I remember being a little scared (at age 8) that the cop had gone after my dad!

The key to the peaceful exchange was the fact that my dad showed ID promptly, explained what he was doing there, and thanked the cop for being so attentive.

Of course, my dad is not black and there is not the long history oppression by the police. But my dad was polite, deferential, and, in the end, it was a pleasant interchange. I imagine that had my dad insulted the cop or claimed that he was being harassed and demanded his badge number, things might not have gone so pleasantly. Encounters with the police are scary ON BOTH SIDES: cops get scared, too, because they could lose their lives in any problematic confrontation. This fear allows the civilian to get under the cop's skin.

How did Gates get under Crowley's skin? For one thing, Gates called him a racist and accused him of oppressing a black man. Now, Crowley was the racial sensitivity guy for his department. When you're someone who is really trying to be a good guy and racially aware, being called a racist hurts and can make you very angry. It's an unfair charge. Secondly, Gates apparently let loose about Crowley's mother (God only knows what was said!) and I can see that also being a trigger.

Of course, Crowley got under Gates' skin as well, especially when he refused to give his name and badge number. Gates jumped to the conclusion that Crowley was going to be abusive and then leave without a trace. That actually happens to some poor blacks in the inner city with abusive cops. Why Gates thought that would happen to him is the product of both his victim-based research and the actual experiences of the less well heeled. He, however, has resources beyond the average person, white or black. He is friends with the current President, among other important people. He was in no real danger of having to serve time because of his contacts. In fact, when he got to the police station, the police let him out of his cell and let him talk to his friends for a long time. What other arrested person gets that?

Anyhow, I agree with the OP and with Larry Elder. No matter what, the message is that yelling at a cop on the job is not a good idea.

Jfor

07-25-2009, 12:49 AM

Wrong... Gates continued his verbal assault on the Sgt Crowley. The officer followed the dpet's policy. He wanted Gates out of the house to make sure that he(Gates) was not there against his will. When Gates went outside and continued his verbal assault, that is when disorderly conduct was slapped on him. If Gates had kept his mouth shut then there would have been no issue, there would have been no arrest, there would have been no news story.

Elspeth

07-25-2009, 12:57 AM

The officer followed the dpet's policy. He wanted Gates out of the house to make sure that he(Gates) was not there against his will. .

This is an excellent point.

I know that the cops do check to see if you aren't being held against your will. A friend of mine once hit her speed dial button for 911. It was an accident, and don't ask me why she had 911 on speed dial. Anyhow, the cops showed up right away and, even though she told them it was an accident, they searched the entire apartment including the bathroom and bedroom to make sure that there wasn't really a perp in there forcing her to send the cops away.

Really good point, Jfor.

Sonnabend

07-25-2009, 01:04 AM

Wrong... Gates continued his verbal assault on the Sgt Crowley. The officer followed the dpet's policy. He wanted Gates out of the house to make sure that he(Gates) was not there against his will. When Gates went outside and continued his verbal assault, that is when disorderly conduct was slapped on him. If Gates had kept his mouth shut then there would have been no issue, there would have been no arrest, there would have been no news story.

http://www.dreamstime.com/bulls-eye-bullseye-success-thumb602228.jpg

meowmeow

07-25-2009, 09:08 AM

So let me see if I have this right, when the police say jump...don't argue, don't ask questions- simply be meek, mild-mannered and obey instructions?

Lars1701a

07-25-2009, 09:41 AM

So let me see if I have this right, when the police say jump...don't argue, don't ask questions- simply be meek, mild-mannered and obey instructions?

Yes and if they are wrong take it up with his/her superiors later.

Sonnabend

07-25-2009, 09:43 AM

So let me see if I have this right, when the police say jump...don't argue, don't ask questions- simply be meek, mild-mannered and obey instructions?

If asked to show ID in a situation like this, meow, screaming abuse at a cop gets you arrested under probable cause that a crime is being committed.

Not to mention that abusing a cop in itself is an arrestable offence.

Disorderly conduct.

Interfering with a police officer's investigation in lawful pursuit of his duties.

gator

07-25-2009, 09:47 AM

So let me see if I have this right, when the police say jump...don't argue, don't ask questions- simply be meek, mild-mannered and obey instructions?

Let me see if I have this right. If you an uppity Professional Negro and friends with the President of the US you can pretty well be obnoxious to the police and disturb the peace and get away with it, right?

Sonnabend

07-25-2009, 09:49 AM

Let me see if I have this right. If you an uppity Professional Negro and friends with the President of the US you can pretty well be obnoxious to the police and disturb the peace and get away with it, right?

"uppity?"

Gator, puh-leeze...:rolleyes:

meowmeow

07-25-2009, 09:55 AM

If asked to show ID in a situation like this, meow, screaming abuse at a cop gets you arrested under probable cause that a crime is being committed.

Not to mention that abusing a cop in itself is an arrestable offence.

Disorderly conduct.

Interfering with a police officer's investigation in lawful pursuit of his duties.

ID was shown in this case, and screaming at a cop is an everyday occurrence that does not necessarily impede them from performing their duty...it's not against the law to question authority. If a police officer showed up at the houses of the people here and asked the wrong questions, made the wrong demands...I believe anger would ensue. I believe that this love-fest for law and authority would disappear out the window. So there is a time to comply with a police request, a time to question an order, a time to protest a ruling, and a time to violently resist.

Like I said though, this particular situation is all about good people exercising extremely poor judgement.

gator

07-25-2009, 09:57 AM

"uppity?"

Gator, puh-leeze...:rolleyes:

I could care less of your opinion.

However, incase meowmeow reads this I will elaborate.

The SOB was in charge of some stupid worthless black studies program at a filthy Northeast Liberal college. He is pretty well as worthless as they come. He is is the one that proved that he was uppity by being obnoxious to the police when they were there to protect his property.

Sonnabend

07-25-2009, 10:00 AM

I could care less of your opinion.Well, Gator, I could care less for yours. The use of "uppity professional Negro" is hardly appropriate.

The SOB was in charge of some stupid worthless black studies program at a filthy Northeast Liberal college. He is pretty well as worthless as they come. He is is the one that proved that he was uppity by being obnoxious to the police when they were there to protect his property"uppity"

"worthless"

Glad he wasnt Jewish as well. :rolleyes:

meowmeow

07-25-2009, 10:07 AM

I could care less of your opinion.

However, incase meowmeow reads this I will elaborate.

The SOB was in charge of some stupid worthless black studies program at a filthy Northeast Liberal college. He is pretty well as worthless as they come. He is is the one that proved that he was uppity by being obnoxious to the police when they were there to protect his property.

Nice to see that cantankerous old men do not lose any of their spirited twisted senses of humor as they head into their...what are you now, 120 years old or so? :p

SarasotaRepub

07-25-2009, 11:01 AM

Nice to see that cantankerous old men do not lose any of their spirited twisted senses of humor as they head into their...what are you now, 120 years old or so? :p

No...he's only 70. :D

stsinner

07-25-2009, 11:06 AM

So let me see if I have this right, when the police say jump...don't argue, don't ask questions- simply be meek, mild-mannered and obey instructions?

Unless you're stupid.. You never win an argument in the field-you win in court-if you're right. But I'll side with the cops over a handcuffed perp 99% of the time.

Jfor

07-25-2009, 11:08 AM

Unless you're stupid.. You never win an argument in the field-you win in court-if you're right. But I'll side with the cops over a handcuffed perp 99% of the time.

That is exactly right.

meowmeow

07-25-2009, 11:14 AM

Unless you're stupid.. You never win an argument in the field-you win in court-if you're right. But I'll side with the cops over a handcuffed perp 99% of the time.

It's the 1% that justifies my point.

stsinner

07-25-2009, 11:18 AM

It's the 1% that justifies my point.

Gates isn't in the 1%-he is the typical race-based black man that is just waiting for a white man in a position of authority to say something to him so he can cry racism... If you read upu on gates, you'll see that his is his M.O.

SarasotaRepub

07-25-2009, 11:19 AM

I think our new fearless leader might have been better off
mentioning this incident (http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20090725/ARTICLE/907251061/2055/NEWS?Title=-Disturbing-e-mail-in-police-video-case) instead of jumping on the race
bandwagon with Gates.

Actually, he should have just said "no comment". I'm sure the
assembled media would have gotten all tingley at that too...:rolleyes:

meowmeow

07-25-2009, 12:01 PM

Gates isn't in the 1%-he is the typical race-based black man that is just waiting for a white man in a position of authority to say something to him so he can cry racism... If you read upu on gates, you'll see that his is his M.O.

Let me ask you, can you accept that there is a possibility that Gates was even remotely, even if unlikely, right in this case?

Sonnabend

07-25-2009, 12:03 PM

Let me ask you, can you accept that there is a possibility that Gates was even remotely, even if unlikely, right in this case?

Both were right, but IMHO Gates exacerbated the issue by being an ass.

gator

07-25-2009, 12:07 PM

Nice to see that cantankerous old men do not lose any of their spirited twisted senses of humor as they head into their...what are you now, 120 years old or so? :p

You seem like you are mellow nowadays. You must be getting a good share of white nookie lately.

meowmeow

07-25-2009, 12:08 PM

Both were right, but IMHO Gates exacerbated the issue by being an ass.