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I'm of the (possibly unpopular) opinion that I'd even throw grenades out of the window... I wouldn't mind my riflemen being intelligent enough to throw grenades as required, instead of them waiting for the commander's permission to use them. Likewise for a lot of active abilities. Ever since Warcraft 3, it seems like it's pretty much obligatory that most if not all units need at least one active ability.

Am I alone longing for units that could use all of their weapons without my constant interference? Age of Empires wasn't in any way diminished from not having archers with a "Power Shot" ability.

In CoH taking the grenades manual usage out would just make the infantry OP. Part of the gameplay is using infantry to take out tanks using cover and getting them close enough to do so. If they can just do that themselves, then the tanks are pretty screwed because you can just send a group of troops near a tank safe with the knowledge that one of them will tag it.

I'm of the (possibly unpopular) opinion that I'd even throw grenades out of the window... I wouldn't mind my riflemen being intelligent enough to throw grenades as required, instead of them waiting for the commander's permission to use them. Likewise for a lot of active abilities. Ever since Warcraft 3, it seems like it's pretty much obligatory that most if not all units need at least one active ability.

Am I alone longing for units that could use all of their weapons without my constant interference? Age of Empires wasn't in any way diminished from not having archers with a "Power Shot" ability.

I'm with you 100%. That said, I suspect the "every unit must have an active ability" thing is so that we have something to do with our hands while we watch battles unfold. Of course, CoH gives you at most a dozen units to handle at any one time, because they're conveniently grouped up into squads of three to six men. SC2 makes you micro every last goddamn soldier on the ground, and steadfastly refuses to allow you to bandbox more than a dozen at a time.

Originally Posted by Sketch

In CoH taking the grenades manual usage out would just make the infantry OP. Part of the gameplay is using infantry to take out tanks using cover and getting them close enough to do so. If they can just do that themselves, then the tanks are pretty screwed because you can just send a group of troops near a tank safe with the knowledge that one of them will tag it.

Well, were infantry more self-sufficient, the devs would likely just make tanks harder to kill.

Last edited by Nalano; 26-01-2013 at 06:36 PM.

NalanoH. Wildmoon
Director of the Friends of Nalano PAC
Attorney at Lawl
"His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

"Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

Still, why take out the ability to throw grenades? Position and managing to keep men alive long enough is part of the challenge, why take that out and just let the AI do it themselves? I want some control of the game left to me.

Still, why take out the ability to throw grenades? Position and managing to keep men alive long enough is part of the challenge, why take that out and just let the AI do it themselves? I want some control of the game left to me.

Maybe some of us would like strategy in our real-time strategy.

Automating the micro doesn't mean losing control. It just means freeing one up to do more macro.

NalanoH. Wildmoon
Director of the Friends of Nalano PAC
Attorney at Lawl
"His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

Automating the micro doesn't mean losing control. It just means freeing one up to do more macro.

I think this is key. RTSs are always going to give the advantage to the player who can do more stuff in a shorter time frame, so decent APM will always be an advantage. What the designers can do is make that stuff more interesting. In SC2 those clicks are best spent keeping your worker production and building perfectly timed, and microing heavily in combat. In CoH the clicks are about cover, flanks, and managing multiple parts of the battle simultaneously. I like the manual grenades in this case, since they draw on your resource pool. Throwing a grenade means putting off an upgrade or a global ability, so you can't use it too often, and it has to count.

I think this is key. RTSs are always going to give the advantage to the player who can do more stuff in a shorter time frame, so decent APM will always be an advantage. What the designers can do is make that stuff more interesting. In SC2 those clicks are best spent keeping your worker production and building perfectly timed, and microing heavily in combat. In CoH the clicks are about cover, flanks, and managing multiple parts of the battle simultaneously. I like the manual grenades in this case, since they draw on your resource pool. Throwing a grenade means putting off an upgrade or a global ability, so you can't use it too often, and it has to count.

Yeah this. I'm not an fast mouse type of guy, but the micro in CoH isn't really that, it's a tactical choice rather than a "I need to do this to be successful" action like Starcraft has.