Back then, the Chevy Chevette "plastic transmission" boxy little death traps were the norm for high MPG cars

I think the mileage champ for gas was the Honda CRX. One of the most fun cars to drive ever built. The modern Civic does not hold a candle to the CRX for fun for the money. Unless you think gadgets make a car fun.

PSThe last oil crisis brought out diesels by almost every maker. They were not near what they are today. If the high fuel prices hold look for a good assortment of modern diesel cars. VW was the mileage champs back then with 50 MPG cars & small PU trucks. Many of them still on the road 25 years later. ULSD and biodiesel the practical answer to fuel economy.

Oh, sorry Dewey, I forgot to mention CLEAN as one of the criteria too - diesels left out, especially the 1983 MB300D, which puts out more dirty emissions on one mile than my HCH does in probably a tank.....:D

quote Moparbad-"High fuel prices are the one and only factor that will cause consumer to choose mpg over horsepower!"-end quote

What my point of saying "once again, all in thanks to the Hybrids which started the MPG push" was referring to is the article I posted which said that the car companies are now putting extra engineering effort into making ALL engines more fuel efficient.

> No, the myth is that Toyota is making a profit. Almost every car manufacturer has come out and said that hybrids are NOT profitable.

Wake up and smell reality.

Those automakers fighting hybrids are the same ones that define "profit" as an obscene amount of money gained from the sale of each individual vehicle with no concern about remaining competitive. That just plain is not realistic anymore. The business model has changed. They are in denial.

Reality is that automaker survival is based on earning only modest profits now. So to end up with large quantities of cash like in the past, production volume & sales has to be significantly increased.

This is the identical transformation that the computer industry faced a number of years ago. With respect to personal computers, that pretty much killed IBM and allowed HP to go from startup to major player. We will be seeing fundamental shifts of power just like that in the automotive industry.

Once again.You are in denial. Thank the $3 gallon gasoline. High energy costs are the reason that automakers are marketing and engineering increased mpg. 1% market share of hybrids is not the motivation. Scared consumers buying a low profit Malibu i/o a cash cow Tahoe is the motivation.

I did an informal survey at work and the managers don't care about hybrids and the labor is not even aware of them for the most part.

Of course change is coming. This is why GM is tetering on the brink of bankruptcy! I wonder if any mechanics will be around in 2025 to fix the 300 or so "hybrids" they built. In 2025 there may not even BE a GM. BUT.. you know what there will be? Yup... Toyotas with probably half their cars operating in either hybrid mode or some other type of propulsion system. The Toyota/Honda hybrids are extremely reliable. Much more so than the big 3. AND..that's a FACT!!

I own an RX400h. The Toyota/Lexus hybrid synergy drive is so superior a power plant that I will never purchase any car not having HSD or its equivalent (An engineering friend says Honda in its upcoming Civic hybrid will match Toyota). Today Toyota Motor announced the third generation hybrid will be put in forthcoming vehicles with some expectation of lower cost. In the Toyota Exhibition Hall on the Champs-Elysees in Paris, a Prius has its engine compartment cut open. One sees the 4 cylinder engine mounted transversally attached to an electric generator (much bigger than the usual alternator) connected to a big electric motor which has mounted above it a large streamlined container for the control system. It's clear that such a power plant is more costly and I'm happy that I'm fortunate enough (the hard way I earned it) to be able to afford it. It is regrettable affordability is low at this time but many of the posts here strike me as ill-informed.

Perhaps envy is there but I think it's more likely to be scepticism towards new developments. Nothing wrong with that. I believe that most people are open minded. So I post to help educate the automotive enthusiasts populating these forums about the things like automotive power plants that aren't external and visible.

There certainly is skepticism rampant here and a high level of disbelief as well but this trend is still in its infancy. The vehicle best known is intentionally directed to a specific market segment which is more open to change.

The next step goes to the heart of the market with a comfortable friend, the Camry, being converted to HSD. As per your link, with a significantly lower cost the HSD might be added to every vehicle. Who would turn down more power and better FE.

Production has increased incredibly, why has cost not decreased at all? Cost has increased with each new model.In the last FIVE years there is no success in decreasing the component costs that are reflected in the sales price, so why do you think the Camry is going to change this in one year?

The common perception in America seems to be that these vehicles are a novelty, and in some cases an eyesore, especially with unknown models like the Toyota Prius and the Honda Insight. But consumers seem more willing to buy vehicles that look familiar

In the last FIVE years there is no success in decreasing the component costs that are reflected in the sales price, so why do you think the Camry is going to change this in one year?

Its called free market pricing. You are equating cost savings with price reductions. Why? If you can sell every vehicle you make at the price you 'suggest' why reduce it? It's what the Big 3 cannot do, find the price at which the public will buy - without discounts.

"Production has increased incredibly, why has cost not decreased at all? Cost has increased with each new model."

This statement isn't really true - costs have gone down considerably. It's pricing which has remained stable or risen. For the first three years (and still true to some degree) hybrids were sold at a loss in spite of their $2,000-$3,000 premium over similar sized conventional models. Production costs have gone down, but the manufacturers are finally starting to amortize their previous losses, so don't look for an immediate favorable pricing adjustment - especially while demand is still hysterically peaked.

(The above from my "Making Hay While the Sun Shines" text on economics on sale at booksellers everywhere - get your copy today!)

It's actually genius which is why all the other manufacturers are trying to bring hybrids to market. At the advent of the SUV craze it was quite easy for all the manufacturers to bring something to market. They just took a pickup truck and slapped a body around it and called it an SUV. This is different. TECHNOLOGY baby!! Gotta love it and Toyota and Honda have a HUGE jump start.

Actually 3 is the current iteration. FYI... the current Prius in the US is MORE reliable than your TDI. I look forward to next year's CR evaluation to prove my point. The only issue was the software update. Why don't you let it go already?? Shall we post links to boards SOLEY devoted to VW lemons to get my point across??

Tell that to the person stalled with a new Prius long after the software should be upgraded.

11/3/05 Prius still stalling.

AFTER TOYOTA'S RECALLING 75,000 PRIUS IN U.S., I TOOK MY 2005 PRIUS INTO TORRANCE TOYOTA(310-325-75000) TO HAVE THE SOFTWARE"GLITCH"REPAIRED. MICHAEL GALLAGHER(SERVICE ADVISOR) TOLD ME THERE IS ADDITIONAL GLITCHES AND NOW MY CAR IS INOPERABLE.

Has the Government investigated any 2004-2005 VW models for massive failures? The Prius has been investigated for the stalling and it is still happening on brand new Prii, sold since the recall by Toyota. I posted a dealers name that claims the Prius still has problems. You have any names of VW dealers that cannot figure out what is wrong with their cars? Maybe it is stupid techs at Toyota dealerships. That would be consistent with Toyota's very low customer service rating.