The Umarex EBOS – Part 2

Well, this report is somewhat overdue, but I’ve been waiting for some of the new RWS BBs to test for you, because of some good things I’ve heard about them. Looking at these BBs under a 10x loupe, they appear smoother than even the Daisy precision ground shot made for the 499 BB gun.

I plan to test this shot in several ways for you with guns we have a baseline on. But that will be later. Today, we’ll look at the Umarex EBOS velocity. And velocity it has! The specs say 540 f.p.s. and by golly that’s what I saw!

The EBOS is run by a battery-powered electric motor, so many of you are considering it as a replacement for the Drozd. I’m no expert on the Drozd, but I’ll report on the EBOS as it operates similar to the Drozd and let you judge for yourselves. What I mean by being run from a motor is that the firing function is controlled by that motor. The power that propels the BB comes from CO2, of course, and the EBOS uses the big 88-gram CO2 cartridges that give hundreds of shots. But the electric motor takes care of firing the gun once you pull the trigger.

A word on loading
The EBOS has a large BB reservoir that’s used to fill up a smaller forced-feed magazine located on the left side of the gun when you take action to fill it. When it’s full, you have up to 24 shots available. After that, you must manipulate the larger reservoir to refill the magazine. This process goes very quick and easy with no jams noted in my test. If you take the time to look inside the large reservoir when it’s empty, you can see the hole that connects it to the BB magazine, so you’ll know what to do to load the gun. But no worries — both loading and unloading are easy!

Power!
Get ready for magnum power with the EBOS, because it really delivers on its promises. While that may evoke some smiles, it also means you must take extra care to prevent ricochets and bouncebacks, because they’ll be both painful and dangerous. Eye protection is mandatory for everyone in the area and the eyewear MUST be a pair of certified safety glasses. Regular prescription glasses will turn to dust with a single shot from this gun.

For this test, I shot into a Quiet pellet trap, because a regular BB trap like the Crosman model 850 is a little on the light side for a gun this powerful. Please understand that I was shooting at less than 24 inches from the trap in my office. When I move back to 15 feet for the accuracy test, I DO plan to use the Crosman 850. But, at this close range, the velocity is too high for a steel BB that could rebound. I waited between 15 seconds and 30 seconds per shot. The one time that I shot a shot right away, the gun lost 20 f.p.s. Remember the lesson of the cooling effects of CO2.

Daisy zinc-plated BBs
The first BBs tested were Daisy zinc-plated BBs. They averaged 539 f.p.s., and the spread went from 528 to 548. So, right there, the EBOS met its advertised velocity. By the way, that works out to a muzzle energy of 3.29 foot-pounds.

Crosman Copperhead BBs
Next to be tried were Crosman Copperhead BBs, which are a little smaller and a trifle lighter than the Daisys, though both are listed at 5.1 grains. Copperheads averaged 523 f.p.s. and ranged from 503 to 532 f.p.s. This was the BB that I shot right away after the last shot, which gave me the low reading of 503 f.p.s. They produced an average 3.1 foot-pounds of muzzle energy.

RWS Match Grade BBs
That’s quite a claim in the name of these BBs, but after examination I must say they look as uniform as ball bearings. Pyramyd Air doesn’t carry them at the moment, but that could change. These BBs all weigh 5.2 grains, with no variation. In the EBOS, they averaged 504 f.p.s., with a spread from 498 to 521 f.p.s. We’ll see how well they shoot in the accuracy test, plus I’m going to test them in the Steel Storm and the HK MP5 as well.They produced an average of 2.93 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle.

Shooting impressions
The EBOS trigger is very smooth. It’s a long single-stage pull with no warning before the break. You’ll feel some recoil with this gun, as there’s so much gas pushing out the barrel with every shot. The fastest rate of fire goes higher than an M3 grease gun, so the gun is very controllable. I believe it’ll be an easy gun to hit with. And I like the sights. Although the stock pull is okay at 13.75 inches, the rear sight notch is too close to the sighting eye. However, I think I may get some good accuracy from this gun because of these sights anyway.

The EBOS is powerful and loud! Respect the power and shoot safely at all times. Don’t use hard backstops such as trees, because the BBs will bounce back wildly. And, enjoy the noise! On the fastest rate, which is 500 rpm, the bursts sound very realistic.

Kevin -you are right,so much so that it is hard for me to add something more,This is not made for target shooting or plinking is it a toy and does copiing of real weapon really prepare kids for later on war??? Dont know but i am sure in this -i dont like bb guns ,little steel balls hitting the wall and does not deform bouncing right back hitting….

Would bb shot bounce back?
I shot a rat one time with my old Benjamin pump gun, and the bb went through the rat, bounced off the conrete wall, put a hole in my denim pants, and hit me right on the shin bone with enough force to break the skin. That hurt.

I know! I had a similar experience shooting my Benjamin 310 pump air rifle with 4pumps and a BB into a wooden door in the basement when I was a kid. I think I hit another BB that was buried in the door and I saw the BB coming back just in time to close my bare eyes, no protection. Swear to God, I caught the BB between my teeth. No damage, but I quit shooting in that hard door!

I have to agree at least to some extent.
It is a dangerous toy. That’s about all that it is good for.
Not suited for smaller children for any purpose, or for teenagers who don’t have crap for brains.

I have nothing against having any kind of gun you want if used responsibly . This one is for fun factor only , and that is OK with me. Provided the user does not do something with it that will bring down a trigger happy swat team on them.
I usually put my Talon in my van before leaving the garage to head into the country. It looks nasty enough that some paranoid victim of liberal BS could go farther into looney land and call the cops on me. But this thing looks too much like something a terrorist would use.

Then there are punks who have used fake guns and airguns to pull robberies. It happens.

twotalon -it is more like matter of opinion i would rather teach children to shot air rifles with mecanical sights under parental supervision,than any toy that is dangerous but still a toy- you see i saw once when i was in elementary school this thing poking eye of the child nasty sight

Accidents happen most often out of ignorance or just plain stupidity. Sometimes they are fatal.
It will never stop.
I have seen idiots in u-tube videos deliberately shooting each other with pellet guns.
If one person out of every 50 is a dipstick, then how many are there in the world?
We cannot protect fools from themselves, or protect others from them.
Heard of the ‘Darwin Awards’ ?

Agreed. There are so many morons out there, usually younger folks. They see an air rifle in walmart, instantly think ‘kewl, a bb gun’, and then go over to their friends’ house to see ‘if it can, like, pwn somebody’. After piercing their own leg and their friends’ arm (if their lucky nobody’s eye has been put out), they post a video on you tube, captioned, ‘sick powerful bb gun that CUT MY LEG’.

So where do you draw the line?
Some of you don’t like it because it doesn’t really serve a purpose…not for target shooting, not for plinking…only for doing stupid things with an airgun.
The exact argument a lot of people use to try and have all shooting weapons banned or heavily regulated, don’t you think?
Any gun…ANY GUN…powder, pellet or b.b., in the wrong hands is going to cause problems. Kevin…the child of an uneducated adult would do the same stupid things with an R7 as he would with this, so perhaps we should be against all air-guns?!
I’m of course being tongue in cheek here, but dissention in the airgun world is the same as in the powder burner world…the people who claim that only a bolt action rifle is needed by the general public don’t do any favors to all the responsible owners of handguns and ‘black rifles’.
Personally…I can’t wait till the boys Steel Storms arrive…and both they and I can’t wait to set those puppy’s on 6 shot full auto.
And my 7 and 9 year olds are two of the safest shooters I know.

Yes, “the child of an uneducated adult would do the same stupid things with an R7 as he would with this, so perhaps we should be against all air-guns?!” But, the odds of a ricochet are less with a pellet. Multiple ricochets are not possible with an R7.

I’m not “against any airguns”. I didn’t suggest banning anything and don’t support anymore gun regulations whether they’re targeted at firearms or airguns.

I just don’t like the direction that guns like the EBOS are taking airguns and think the efforts of responsible airgunners should be focused on educating the less experienced about the extra caution that should be used with a gun like the EBOS. This isn’t the single shot daisy that your buddy had down the road when you grew up.

Kevin, my point is that there are many in the ‘real gun’ world who think that AR style rifles (for example) should be banned for exactly the same reason as you’ve stated…that by their sheer potential rate of fire, their design, etc that they are ‘accidents’ waiting to happen. (and yes I know that you didn’t outright say they should be banned…but when anti gun people read arguments like this is just fuels their fire…”if the gun people think they are bad they should be banned” kinda thing)
As Malcolm basically states…stupid (I prefer careless) people will do damage to themselves or others no matter what they have in their hands.
I’ve taught my boys since the first day they got their Red Ryders that b.b.’s can ricochet and that safety glasses and hearing protection are a must…they don’t shoot without them. If a parent isn’t teaching proper safety with something as potentially dangerous as a Red Ryder (or an EBOS or Storm)…they’re likely not being taught things like not drinking and driving, etc.
To be truthful I take offense (maybe I shouldn’t) at someone basically saying “I don’t like that kind of shooting so I don’t feel the gun has a place”…which is really saying you don’t feel it should exist. My main ‘passion’ is probably 10m pistol…but I’m sure looking forward to taking the boys to the range, setting up a dozen Shatterblasts at 25 feet and seeing if we can shatter them all with a couple of bursts from the Storm.
I know this has gotten long-winded…but variety is what makes the world go round. And I guess I fall solidly in the ‘guns don’t kill…people do’ camp, which here would be EBOS style guns don’t injure…careless, ill trained/supervised people.
And unfortunately we can’t ban them 🙂

I can sure see the potential for accidents with the EBOS. But then, i’ve heard cases of people running with a toothbrush in their mouth, and tripping and having it rammed into the roof of their mouth. Stupid, or careless, people will find a way to hurt themselves with just about anything.

People need to teach their kids gun safety, and I think most people who are into guns do just that. Whatever the case, the government can keep new regulations to themselves.

BAH HUMBUG!!! Quit raining on my parade. To those who say “only accurate guns are interesting” I say BAH HUMBUG!!! My adaptation of that saying is “only people who agree with me are interesting”!

So let me say about this gun, IT ROCKS! And those detractors here use the same stupid arguments that anti-gunners use! It MIGHT be misused! Wow! Hell might freeze over too! But until that happens you MIGHT want to gear your actions to avoiding hell!

And rather than ragging on this absolutely wonderfully cool gun, you might want to avoid being present when all these (mostly imagined multiple) ricochets occur. In other words make sure the kid or moron adult who has the gun in hand knows how to avoid those situations and that every one has good effective eye protection.

As for “only accurate guns are interesting”, I say BS! This gun is pure FUN! Simple as that. So why does a “fun gun” have to have target grade accuracy? And since when do we stoop to making fun something evil and sinister and talk about outlawing it or disparaging it just because we think it is “evil and sinister”

Well I am a 63 year young kid who intends to have some safe fun with this gun!!! And a POX on all you nay sayers!! Shame on you all for trying to keep us kids of the world from having fun.

Regarding your comment “Here in California, in not too many months, we’ll only be able to buy 50 rounds of ammo a month, and when we buy them, have to leave a fingerprint etc.”
I say this from your constitutional Bill of Rights
Amendment II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Im not a gun enthusiastic nutjob. but the 2nd amendment was made to protect the people from “rogue government”.
It seems california is taking away your 2nd amendment rights by “limiting” yor right to have ammunition.

Fear of regulation? In the 1990s, we rec’d a very angry fax filled with page after page of vituperative language that told us that Tom and I would be the cause of the demise of airgunning in America as we know it because we wrote about powerful airguns made by Gary Barnes and Dennis Quackenbush. Basically, we were destroying the entire sport and would ruin airgunning for all future generations. I won’t tell you who sent us the fax, but he was relatively well-known in airgunning circles. (He’s now deceased.)

When the Drozd came out and shot steel BBs at 541 fps, the internet had claims of doom and gloom because it was a powerful BB submachine gun that looked too realistic. Of course, nothing came of it.

The .50 caliber guns made by Shinsung and the .45 caliber guns made by Sam Yang were also supposed to bring about a raft of regulations comparable to what the Brits have. Nothing came of it.

I’m not saying that it can’t ever happen. I’m saying that I’ve heard a lot of this before and that in light of what was supposed to happen…but did not…I’m skeptical that the EBOS is going to bring down the full force of the law on airgunners.

Kevin–The “extreme dark edge of airgunning”? I didn’t expect to read that! Lots of things are dangerous if used improperly. There’s absolutely nothing we can do about uneducated parents buying unsuitable things for their children. Warnings don’t work…in fact, they seem to have the opposite effect! Some adults buy unsuitable things for themselves, so they’re going to do the same for their children. Obviously, we can’t stop making or writing about airguns just because we think someone might buy it for the wrong person or the wrong reasons. If that were the case, there would always be a reason to never make another airgun ever again.

Yes, almost anything we handle daily can be dangerous if used incorrectly. Yes, the users stupidity and irresponsibility leads to more warning labels on the box and more disclaimers printed at the beginning of the owners manual. Yes, more legislation and regulation usually follows. Yes, the Drozd has been out for years and I don’t know if it has resulted in more regulation in some Cities or Counties.

Alan in MI and I are on the same page. The gloom and doom forecasters for fear of more regulation when the big bores started to be mass produced were concerned about power that is similar to firearms. As could easily be predicted, this didn’t lead to more legislation/regulation since the “target market” was and ended up being mostly adults with a firearm safety background that USUALLY shoot more responsibly than kids and teenagers. Like the Drozd, I think the target market and end users are primarily kids and teenagers for the EBOS.

I think your comparison of the Drozd and EBOS is a good one. I’ve lost count of the number of you tube videos I’ve seen with the Drozd in action. Most of the Drozd videos have several things in common. Young teen boys gathered around a make shift firing range with a video running. The other thing these videos usually have in common is one or more of these kids gets hit with a richochet. This is the “extreme dark edge of airgunning” I was referring to.

To clarify, more regulation is not my primary concern it’s the increase in odds for injury with a gun like the EBOS since it’s tactical look, velocity and cheap ammo (bb’s) seem to target immature buyers/shooters. Of course, increase in injury from a product can lead to more regulation.

The solution is to teach gun safety and the unique requirements of proper targets and backstop especially for a powerful automatic machine gun shooting bb’s. In my experience, teenage boys take years to learn and implement these lessons.

Now I’m probably in your doghouse. Please let me know when I can come out.

I didn’t expect this kind of reaction to this gun! Apparently we have stepped across a line here.

I agree that BB submachine guns are not my tastes, either, but those who like them have been extremely patient while we have reviewed vintage guns, target guns, airgun shows and even how to reload firearms ammunition, which apparently everyone in California now needs to take up. So today is the day of the BB submachine gun, and more specifically, the day of the EBOS.

I remember all the gloom and doom predicted about what the big bores were going to do to airgunning. Maybe oppressive legislation will come our way, but that should be handled by the electoral process.

The doom and gloom forecasts are totally different. The big bore concern was that since airguns were clearly able to perform like powder burners, they should be regulated like them. I’m glad that did not come to pass.

This is different – it based on the pervasive incompetence and stupidity in America these days, and how our governments’ reaction always seems to be equally stupid (how many times have we seen laws passed to outlaw an an action that already was illegal?). The concern is that an irresponsible adult makes one of these available for a kid or teen and they do something even more irresponsible with it, and we know what the results will be. Not many feared that the same dumb adults would make big bores available to kids.

Personally, this gun (and others like it) is not my cup of tea – I have no desire or use for a “pretend” automatic weapon, especially one as potentially hazardous as this (via ricochets). That said, I have got a kick or two out of my boys airsoft automatic “toys”, so I can understand the interest.

Since it is so easy to see how this gun (and others like it) could cast all airguns and aigunning in a bad light, people are concerned.

It raises the question of whether or not a company (or industry) should do something, even though they can do it. Many industries are capable of creating a product that could lead to regulations that will ultimately hamper that same industry, and the cause and effect path is clear to see in advance. I hope this does not end up as one of those cases, but I am with Kevin on this one.

But the Drozd has been out for many years, and nothing has come of it. While kids buy BB guns and adults will buy BB guns for kids, they’re not going to spend as much as these cost. They WILL spend that much on an airsoft gun, but it doesn’t appear to hold the same attraction for kids when the gun shoots steel BBs.

In my opinion, you haven’t stepped across any line. I think part 1 of your EBOS review was excellent. Especially since you emphasized shooting safety with this gun. You’re a reporter that’s sharing the facts. That’s why I’m here. I want the facts and I don’t want anything sugar coated. I hope you want the same from your readers.

Ricochets, high potential for eye injuries and “black gun” image is what makes this EBOS very different than so-called mainstream airguns. Still… much like the many AR and AK clone firearms out there, the image has no relationship to reality. A .223 semi-auto is still semi-auto fire whether it looks like a musket or looks like a starship-trooper assault gun. This conjures up memories of Barney Frank and his clones holding up AR’s in front of the TV cameras and crying about “this gun is designed to kill human beings”. Ya Barney, so is a steel pipe with a 12 gauge cartridge stuck in it and some kid with a hammer and a BB taped to the primer ready to let it rip! (wait that was me at 12 yrs old!)

Although I agree with Kevin’s basic premise, my independent nature and Idaho-like principles (hunt fish and shoot wherever it’s safe on public lands) keep me from going down the road of restricting any legal item or substance, even potentially harmful BB guns.

At the end of the day, none of my airguns or firearms have ever shot anyone or anything that I did not intend to shoot. (read as the gun never shoots anything, the shooter does) Most of this is diligence on my part coupled with good quality weapons and a small dose of good luck.

Last, in an era when current movies like Jackass III are box office hits and Lindsay Lohan is perceived a “victim”, nothing much can be done about America’s slide into stupidity.

Brian,
“Last, in an era when current movies like Jackass III are box office hits and Lindsay Lohan is perceived a “victim”, nothing much can be done about America’s slide into stupidity.”

I feel this way at times, but what I like to think is let the stupid kill themselves and the indolent starve to death. As for true victims of circumstances, it is more efficient to help them directly than to have a government program do it. Sometimes people call folks like me cynical, but apparently they are the ones prepared to let good people die if the government doesn’t step in.

Well this looks more like a Friday column. Lots of opinions! I already voted out all but one incumbent – Representative Lance can stay. CA is getting insane! Time to get Arnold and his minions out before they can wreak further havoc with our freedoms!

By the way! I called Crosman/Centerpoint about my low sighting scope. They said send it in for examination! Stay tooned (mispelling on purpose).

Good luck with Crosman.
I had a go around with them a few years ago over a gun that had the barrel bored so large that it did not have any rifling. They claimed that it was within specs.
So where would you find .180 cal pellets for a smoothbore?
I waited long enough for them to run out of that batch of barrels, then ordered a new one. This one is good.

Yes sir the right to vote! We are the employers and not the employees. My congressman said, “I don’t care what my constituents tell me. I know how I am going to vote.” If one of my employees had expressed a similar philosophy about the rules of my work place, they’d be gone.

All,
Vote. If the dead and mentally incompetent can do it (in certain areas), those reading this blog should be able! I’m on my way momentarily. Won’t say which candidates, but my friends can take an educated guess.

BB,
Not my style, but it does look like fun. Definitely not for kids, but there’s a lot that falls under that category, and that’s up to the parents. As with a machine gun, something I might like to play with for a day or two :). I could respect PA’s choice either way, i.e., to sell such things or not; should be their choice. AirSoft is the more real danger as far as I’m concerned.

I remember a long time ago I read about a BB submachine gun in one of the shooting magazines.
It had a huge BB resivoir and was powered by the freon cans you could buy for recharging your car air conditioner.
I think it was continuous fire as long as you held back the trigger.
You remember that?

I believe,there was an article in the Gun Digest , and another written by Jess Galen about those. They were not for sale to the public and were intended for riot control by police. They would shed a gallon milk carton in seconds, very impressive weapons, Robert.

BB: The one I’m refering to is like a Larc on seroids, it is really a weapon. It fires plastic BB’s (I think?) at high velocity and is used at short range where the over penetration of the projectiles would be undesirable, Robert.

FWIW: It was bugging me so I looked it up . It is called the P3 Strafer Mk4 . Fires plastic BB’s at 250-650fps /9000-10,000 rpm. Runs on CO2 . Can supposedly engage targets out to about 75 yards, non lethal, but I wouldn’t like to be hit by about 150 to 200 plastic BB’s a second(!) at 10 feet going 600fps, Robert.

I’ve never heard of that gun, but the air-siphon system is so simple that any home craftsman can create a similar gun. I saw a guy selling them for $50 at a Little Rock airgun show several years ago. He made his out of PVC parts.

Had one of those. Was called the Larc ????. Don’t remember if there was a model after the Larc. Used a can of freon and you filled a reservoir with bb’s and held the trigger down. About 30 seconds or so later it froze up! But in between it spit bb’s out like crazy! They advertised the rate of fire at 3000 rpm!

If you took into account that in 30 seconds it spit out maybe 1500 bb’s at BEST, then took about 5 min to thaw out, the rate of fire was actually about 275 rpm!

The quality of the gun was crud! Bad! No worse than bad! Not even worth $1! But I had to have one just to see what it was about! Wasted my money but had some fun.

Back then Tom (aka BB) wasn’t reviewing them so I had nothing to go on other than advertisement. Just a young pup and that was my first lesson that you can’t believe everything the advertisements say!

What BG farmer and the others said,as I’m about to head out the door to do so, although in my state we don’t have much of a choice. Indeed , we will have to fight VERY hard to keep what gun rights we have now here regardless of the results of this election. Join the NRA, it’s the only club we have in the fight for our gun rights.
I’m with Kevin on preferences in guns, but I will not deny the appeal of this BB gun . To each their own. I personally am not interested in most semi -automatic firearms, or any of the BB shooting action type airguns. Other than my Ruger .44 carbine ,I don’t even own any centerfire semi-automatic long guns. Don’t read me wrong, I ‘m not againist the ownership of them at all. It’s good that they are included and reviewed. However, having grown up in the 1960’s and 70’s reading the gun literature of that time , I will admit I’m becoming real tired of the constant barage of self- defense oriented articles and personal defense firearms reviews in the current crop of popular gun literature. One reason I enjoy airguns and this blog is that there’s not so much of that with them. There has to be some balance, and there is that here. My wife who is very much not a shooter, but who is a CNC milling and lathe machine programer, and a very experienced machinist , made the interesting comment to me that she would never buy a plastic gun. She regards them as ugly and cheap looking , and wondered why anyone would accept that in a personal weapon outside of the military or police circles. She helps manufacture some very serious stuff out of some very high tech plastic also, Robert.

I was bragging to a local Law Enforcement Officer about my new ‘high powered” air rifle. He said he don’t like them, because fellons can buy them. Good point. But make it against the law for them to have them, don’t punish us.

I think many are misinterpreting my comments. I AM NOT A SUPPORTER OF MORE GUN REGULATION.

When I said,

“To clarify, more regulation is not my primary concern it’s the increase in odds for injury with a gun like the EBOS since it’s tactical look, velocity and cheap ammo (bb’s) seem to target immature buyers/shooters. Of course, increase in injury from a product can lead to more regulation.”

I meant that safety is my number one concern. Yes, more regulation concerns me which is part of my worry with these types of guns. I do not want to see more regulation/legislation.

kevin:
I know where you are coming from.
The problem isn’t really the Umarex but the knuckle draggers who might buy it.
My solution is to get rid of the knuckle draggers.
In my country the authorities would rather ban something than punish those who abuse it.
As a result,the majority suffer.
There was a time in Britain when the state actually trusted its citizens and visa versa.
Not any more.
DaveUK

Kevin, I read your comment as exactly opposite. You were pointing out that the regulators and confiscators in our govt. take images like these (the EBOS) and make new, ridiculous and confiscatory laws from those images. (the black gun syndrome)

Not surprising, as that entire left-wing engine in D.C. runs on “feelings”, images and hype. No reality or substance to be found in those folks. The movie “The Rock” with Ed Harris as the USMC General who became sickened of all that we are experiencing first hand (today) had the right theory (chem-warfare scenario being the exception)

If one were of the mind-set, not me of course, but someone say… like minded, had two brigades of Marines and 72 hours of marshal law, they could re-establish the congress (current members to the Gulag) through appointees to be ratified by the people, abolish the IRS and hold election for a new pres. Game over, game won. Oh ya, all the media is shut down for 72 hours also. The only media would be AFRTS broadcasting the Star Spangled Banner and readings of the US Constitution and Articles 24 hrs per day. Curfew at dusk etc. I’m just sayin!

First, I have just about every type of airgun imaginable, and for me automatic airguns and BB machine guns are BY FAR the most fun airguns out there, bar none. Having selective-fire (semi/full) is simply unparalleled – there’s really no going back to single-shot (or even repeaters).

Second, these guns are GREAT for target shooting and plinking (and having extreme fun doing it as well). One can make an supposed “accuracy” argument for every “next” class of airgun that comes into existence, but these guns have more than enough accuracy for almost all general target shooting and plinking within the class domain. All airguns are for recreation – target shooting and plinking are recreational sports. The idea that “this or that” airgun has somehow “less” use in that context is an absolutely ridiculous statement – such an argument can be made for any airgun, and in fact nearly any “entertainment product” ever made.

Next, regulations are a terrible damnation of society – in truth, there is certainly no place for them in any society which is based on liberty. Regulations are the bane of progress, the antithesis of freedom, and the root of totalitarianism. As evidence, note how members of our society now fear regulations so much that people (such as you, Kevin) suggest we stop making the best and most innovative products because some accident might happen due to misuse and/or irresponsibility. The same can be said for any product in existence (we mind as well always use plastic forks and knives, or maybe the government should just give us our food pre-cut because knifes are “accidents waiting to happen”). The idea that there is any onus on any product is completely absurd. In a free society, people must be responsible for themselves (regardless of whether they currently are or aren’t). Regulations have made us less responsible as a people. We need to root out policymakers which have supported such regulations and thus built a culture of fear into our lives and sterility into our products and innovations. That’s the real solution, not living in fear of innovation.

Rationalizing that these products “are not my cup of tea” when everyone (in truth) clearly wants them, and/or simply sticking to status quo offerings because of some perceived threat of future regulatory fear is akin to living under autocracy. That’s not a viable alternative, it’s simply cowering.

I strongly applaud these new, exciting automatic airguns and will do all I can to support them. I want to see more advanced versions, somewhat more akin to the Drozd (but better). Not only do automatics comprise the most fun you can have with an airgun, but they represent a vast move forward in airgun technology that has been sorely lacking.

To all here…I think this is the best damned blog in cyber-space (does that term date me?), administered by a couple of the best people in airgunning, and frequented by one of the politest, most knowledgeble people in airgunning.
I’ve not agreed with all the comments today…but I’m amazed how it’s never gotten out of hand (like some blogs)…and EVERYONE has a right to their opinion.
Ya know…I think even I was wrong about something once about 10 years ago 😉 😉

Off topic for anyone….
Anyone know if the guides in the Maccari kits for the 97K are steel or plastics? Black tar comes with the kit also.
If I have this right, moly for steel on steel, and silicone for steel on plastic?

Flobert, is that 50 round ammo limit definitely going to happen in California?! I’ve only heard it as rumors. How will they deal with me who order my ammo online and in bulk?

Regarding the dark edge of airguns and related issues, I’m interested in the philosophical notion that everything can be dangerous with a toothbrush splitting one’s mouth open as the extreme (and very good) example. Supreme Court Justices love to talk like this. 🙂 Strictly speaking yes, but from a statistical standpoint, I would have to disagree that all things are equally destructive. There are people out there who can kill someone with a rolled up newspaper. But it takes a great deal of skill. On the other hand, on a video I was watching which named the Maxim machine gun as the single most important development in firearms history, the learned British commentator said, “You could put an idiot behind that gun and still shoot 500 rounds per minute.” (British expression carries the day.) I’m persuaded that some things are quite a bit more inherently destructive than others. Given a potential of damage, could it be increased enough (like owning a Maxim machine gun or high explosives) to the point where it should be regulated for basic public safety? The answer is already here. Nobody is arguing that 10 year olds should be allowed to drive in a world without speed limits. Some things are definitely over the top. So at what point should there be regulation? Since a formula is impossible, the appropriate response in a free society–utilizing the principle of judicial restraint–is to regulate as little as possible or only when the alternative is clearly nonsensical. Of course no flamethrowers allowed. But certainly semiauto firearms and the EBOS.

I wouldn’t own any full-auto bb gun myself for reasons of safety, but as for style, you never know how things will change. I’m even starting to change my opinion of the AR-15. For all its design flaws, there’s no denying that the recent versions have real accuracy potential (even if that is due partly to their low-powered round). Specifically, the Ruger SR556 in 6.8 SPC has my attention. The piston is reliable, the gun is accurate, the caliber has power. The gun definitely has appeal. By the way notwithstanding all of the laws in California, the most popular centerfire rifle on the range the other day, by far, was the AR-15 model.

The drift of it is that reloading for a military semiauto is an “advanced reloading topic.” In addition to the ordinary reloading steps. The author claims that it is also mandatory to use a bullet-seating gage, a case-sizing gage, and bushing dies to adjust neck tension, as well as a case trimmer. All true? To some degree this is a moot point in a decision to reload since I’m committed anyway. I’m obviously going to shoot my M1 and one that jams with every clip is not really an M1. Besides, I think there are safety issues with jammed and deformed ammunition. Also, there’s the whole California business about limiting ammo purchase. However, surely one would not describe the semiauto reloading as described as easy. 🙂

Everybody make sure to vote whatever your persuasion. And I would recommend in future voting by mail instead of fighting the lines. It’s much easier.

FrankB, we’re making progress. I got my Cold Steel kitchen knife to shave some hair with relative ease although not quite like yours. The key seems to be that the Cold Steel blade was designed to be much thinner than others so its takes an edge easily. Also, your tip about the light pressure definitely made a difference. I do believe that I’m closing in on the goal.

You don’t need my congrat’s…..you’ve put in the necessary time and effort to “earn” it.Don’t forget stropping,even on cardboard,aligns all the tiny teeth in the right direction!Lots of blades won’t shave until that occurs.Harbor Freight still has 4 sided diamond bench blocks for under $20…..great for removing knicks and changing hone angles!

BB:
Did you fella’s have ‘Spud’ guns over there?
A strange affair which looked like a small revolver.
The chamber contained one ‘Cartridge’ where you pushed the nose into a ‘Spud’ (potato)and put a paper cap in the rear.
Load it back in the chamber,cock and fire out a bit of spud.
WOW! it was really average lol
DaveUK

Still shootin .375″ CTC holes (and a few in the same hole) at 10 meters + with a pistol scope. Getting close to 1000 rounds through her and no malfunctions as of now. So far, this is an exceptional value at $36!!!

Note: cleaned pistol thoroughly when still new, including bore, compression chamber and o-rings de-gunked. Re-lubed with pure silcone lube and have been using Pellgunoil religiously since to “flush” valve and keep her lubed.

Ton -i have D34 classic and i can say that i don’t like those plastic sights ,i ordered one spare sight (just yesterday)because just the other day my rear sight start to pop out 🙁 but this is a matter of opinion (you may use a scope i don’t , i love open sights)some say that scoping of this gun is problem but i had a gamo 4×32 and i didnt see any problem there but it is not perfect(just you do buy a better scope) The gun IS NOT 800FPS it is just marketing trick you will be lucky if you pull out 730 fps from 34

Ton in retrospective i don’t see why would there be any drawback for D34 in 17 cal in fact it might just be THE caliber for this gun but i don’t have 17 Diana 34 so i would like also to ask BB what are the drawbacks of Diana 34(RWS) IN 17 CAL ???

Managed to solve one problem today.
I had pellets stashed all over the place, and had difficulty finding what I wanted at any particular time.
Could not think of any particular place to put them and have them arranged for quick use.
Then I was in the garage and spotted a small roll around tool chest that I had not used for years because, well, it was just too small and I had got a bigger one.
It fit real nice in one corner and held all my pellets with just a little room to spare. Need to arrange them a little better yet but this should work fine.
Some of the tins are stacked 2 or 3 high.

Twotalon, I remember those Freon-powered guns, they were called something like the MP5 and “If you’re a pistolero” the MP3, shorter version, the ad had a pic of a milk carton of water or something being demolished by one. Sold through Shooting Times or one of those magazines, not American Rifleman, one of the non-NRA mags.

And safety is important, a few months ago I showed my friend one of my air guns and shot at the end of a log, and hit my friend! The pellet bounced right back and hit him in the shoulder, and he said “Ow!” and I thought he was joking for a moment.

First, I have just about every type of airgun imaginable, and for me automatic airguns and BB machine guns are BY FAR the most fun airguns out there, bar none. Having selective-fire (semi/full) is simply unparalleled – there’s really no going back to single-shot (or even repeaters).

Second, these guns are GREAT for target shooting and plinking (and having extreme fun doing it as well). One can make an supposed “accuracy” argument for every “next” class of airgun that comes into existence, but these guns have more than enough accuracy for almost all general target shooting and plinking within the class domain. All airguns are for recreation – target shooting and plinking are recreational sports. The idea that “this or that” airgun has somehow “less” use in that context is an absolutely ridiculous statement – such an argument can be made for any airgun, and in fact nearly any “entertainment product” ever made.

Next, regulations are a terrible damnation of society – in truth, there is certainly no place for them in any society which is based on liberty. Regulations are the bane of progress, the antithesis of freedom, and the root of totalitarianism. As evidence, note how members of our society now fear regulations so much that people (such as you, Kevin) suggest we stop making the best and most innovative products because some accident might happen due to misuse and/or irresponsibility. The same can be said for any product in existence (we mind as well always use plastic forks and knives, or maybe the government should just give us our food pre-cut because knifes are “accidents waiting to happen”). The idea that there is any onus on any product is completely absurd. In a free society, people must be responsible for themselves (regardless of whether they currently are or aren’t). Regulations have made us less responsible as a people. We need to root out policymakers which have supported such regulations and thus built a culture of fear into our lives and sterility into our products and innovations. That’s the real solution, not living in fear of innovation.

Rationalizing that these products “are not my cup of tea” when everyone (in truth) clearly wants them, and/or simply sticking to status quo offerings because of some perceived threat of future regulatory fear is akin to living under autocracy. That’s not a viable alternative, it’s simply cowering.

I strongly applaud these new, exciting automatic airguns and will do all I can to support them. I want to see more advanced versions, somewhat more akin to the Drozd (but better). Not only do automatics comprise the most fun you can have with an airgun, but they represent a vast move forward in airgun technology that has been sorely lacking.

Sigh….
I have been looking forward to this second review and was really hoping to see some replies about the EBOS. I’m with pcp4me, he said it best. I’m 41, I use it for plinking and fun, I have targets set up and make my own stops for pellets and bb’s. I want to know if there are any upgrades yet or things to fiddle with on it. I’m not robbing banks, brandishing it on TV or in the public, or hitting someone over the head with it, and am interested in the details of the machine. So is there any way we can get back to the actual topic here, and keep the spouting off to some other forums?
So far I made an adapter for a paintball compressed air tank with a remote line to screw into the rear port, so I don’t have to keep spending ridiculous money on the 88 grams. Seems to work quite well, but I haven’t gotten around to getting the right pressure to the gun, there’s a regulator in the tank that needs adjusting.
Has anyone taken it apart, or made a rechargeable battery pack, or done anything to improve theirs? I’d love to hear it and I’m sure there are a few others that would too.
Thanks!

I have done my homework.
I had decided on the EBOS above any other Sub “BB” Machine gun.
the price was the 1st factor in my decision. the FPS was the 2nd. and the Fun factor was the last.
I read articles that stated it went through a lot of air, so i found someone on youtube that converted it with a remote line for very little money.
I will teach my 9 year old autistic daughter to shoot it also (she finds it hard to deal with and understand other people, so she spends a lot of time with Dad). it “will” have a trigger lock, and we “will” wear glasses and air protection”. rules, safety and common sense are most important.
It is just another hobby we can share at a reasonable cost and a lot of quality time together.
Thanks for the great reveiw !

Hey …
Wow
talk about your flamebait…. might as well publish that Linux is communism for computers… (geek joke) but to respond to one of the arguments here … the 2nd amendment which states that all “freemen” have the right to bear arms for the protection of themselves, their families and to insure free state, shall not be infringed (originally put forth and written to include the protection of families when the Northern states attempted to STOP the southern land owners from owning guns was written in to the constitution this too was later changed) it was ratified, to state: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. But this was in regards to a comment made by Benjamin Franklin in his later years which stated all Free Governments should by the very necissity revolt every 50 years (this was NOT an attempted civil war … this was a thought and political comment meaning that the government outgrows itself and should be re-evaluated…. ) and we all know the only thing that makes anything or anyone “work” correctly is incintive and the only incintive WE (meaning we the people) truly have to insure that all of us are listened to is the slight bit of fear we instill in the Federal Government by being a “freethinking” orginazition and by being able to defend ourselves IN MIND, BODY, and SPIRIT. Now unfortunately many of the more …. er… “liberal” view points state that we should all work together for the greater good or the common good … see first argument NEED INCINTIVE …. so that doesnt work …BUT when I “average free thinking Joe…..” own an AR-14 my government suddenly wants to tell me NO … fear the government that labels you and fears you because you can think and arm yourself!!! … on to a different argument and topic big soapbox lots of room …. as for the argument of this has no value … wrong … everything has value … I bought one, not so much because I thought it was “cool”, but because THIS gun is one of the most modifiable guns on the market … it can be modified to shoot at 300 fps and use a refillable gas tank … it can be modified to shoot at 600 fps and shoot 1000 rounds a minute…. and while I truly have no REAL use for a gun that shoot 1000 rounds per minute … I dont REALLY have a use for a .308 thats accurate at almost a mile and has almost no recoil but I built one of those …. and my 12 year old is more accurate with it than I am …. it is all in the parenting and the wants/needs of the user … and as for the Darwin Argument … I dunno I can poke out your eye with a sharp stick … do we cut down all the trees??? or put out your eye with a rock!!! does that mean we cover everything on the planet with rounded soft edge plastic??? (I actually had a classmate in 4th grade have his eye put out by my next door neighbor almost 35 years ago … needless to say my parents did NOT petition the local city council to pave our entire neighborhood …. ) C’mon gentleman step up … TEACH … TALK to your children… further do NOT spoil their fun because you are afraid to live … they have NOT discovered their own mortality and have not yet learned of sin … while we have both (this brings moral value WE TEACH THEM!!!!) Soooo while YOU may not like the EBOS … and you may think only an accurate gun is intersting, I have both … and in several calibers and personally I have alot more fun blasting 1200 rounds out of my bb gun (at the cost of 12.50 worth of bb’s and 20 minutes of time to refil the tank)or even more entertaining the joy of watching my now 17 year old teach my 6 year old how to shoot… than I do shooting my .308 in competition (incidently its more accurate than I am sometimes) at a cost of 6.00 a shell (and I roll my own) …. you probably do not approve of bottle rockets or abombs either …. as for me … guess what Im building next …. (aren’t you glad I dont live next to you???!!!???)
So to end this little bit of flame bait … its really a matter of perception and reality you percieve that it has no value yet the reality of it is almost every dealer is sold out … why … because if nothing else its cheap … its semi accurate… and since Samuel Colt first went … hmmm if we made the this rotate and added a belt …. Men have been trying to make it spit as much lead as fast as possible out any end pointed away from the “sac” as possible … and why … it isnt useful… it isnt accurate (Vietnam the numbers were appaling 1200 rounds of ammo PER kill yeah automatic good choice … kinda like the hail mary shot in billiards) but because of two things … its fun!!! … and it is something that we can modify/play with/rebuild… insert whatever but mostly cause its FUN!!! and any man that says differently … well he is either lying … or he hasnt played with one…. so Men … go forth and conquer … but its still on hold and unavailable until sometime after Fab 28th … he he … I already got mine … naner naner naner ;0)
**I so love mature endings …. ***

im curios why that since this an ebos comment area, most of the threads have nothing to do with the ebos itself? ive noticed that with all the reviews ive read and gets old. when i read one of bbs reviews, i want to learn about that particular gun and from other people that have them. not getting an american history lesson on the second ammendment or hear stuff about the rws 34(which i have one and very happy with it). stick to the subject at hand. just my opinion cause it gets old scrolling thru all the other crap to find something educational about the subject gun

Since comments are in a rather linear (time ordered, though with nesting) blog format, it becomes difficult to find responses in older reviews — unless one is using something like an RSS feed to capture all new posts since previous visit (which, at least for Sage plug-in, also loses the reply nesting).

As a result, many of the main regulars tend to just transfer commentary (especially the “drift” topics) onto newer “review” comments as they appear.

Maybe it’s time to replace the “blog” with just the reviews themselves, and implement a bulletin board system; each review would become a new message thread in the bulletin board, and there could be categories for types (PCP, Spring, Pneumatic, CO2… Rifle, Pistol… Accessories)…

wulfraed,
If you use the rss feeds method (which I really like to do), I’ve notice that, if you see a comment that interests you, if you right click on the comment heading in the rss feed and open in a new tab you will get all of the fully nested replies in that new tab. Then, you can go back to the rss tab and continue from where you left off. You won’t lose your place.
-Chuck