The second the thug took Helena's thermos of babies, you knew there was a "Helena kicks ass" scene in store. Holy cow. Holding the blade of the paper cutter like a machete was brilliant.posted by Thorzdad at 8:52 PM on June 13, 2015 [6 favorites]

Helena and Donnie definitely had the best interactions this episode.

"Yeah, it's one of those colds that... messes with your syntax..." had me quietly chuckling and for sure you should not threaten the babies.

The mirror/twin pay-off with finding out the original line for Castor and Leda makes sense, but for some reason I was irritated that it was Ms. S's mum, but I like the show enough to give them time to win me over.posted by dawg-proud at 9:48 PM on June 13, 2015 [3 favorites]

for some reason I was irritated that it was Ms. S's mum

yeah, why would that be? Not coincidence is it? Was S sorta roped into caring for Sarah because (outside of her knowledge) her mom was the original? I thought she had already been involved in some kind of underground before the cloning started.

I was happy to see Siobhan showcased in this episode because Maria Doyle Kennedy is amazing. It was heartbreaking to see her reunited with the friends of her youth, to see two of them killed, and to see that S had been manipulated from long ago (like all the other women in the show) by information being withheld from her. Siobhan is surely wondering about her own origins/family now just as Sarah started doing in the show premiere.

Interesting that this means Sarah (and all the clones) are actually related to S. Her sisters maybe? Or... her aunts more like it?? Because they were cloned from her mother? Weird.posted by torticat at 10:57 PM on June 13, 2015 [3 favorites]

Gracie, why ???? I was starting to like you. I guess we really do terrible things for the ones we love.posted by Pendragon at 1:38 AM on June 14, 2015

And Delphine ? WTF ? I guess working in that position in DYAD turns you into a psycho.posted by Pendragon at 1:43 AM on June 14, 2015 [1 favorite]

for some reason I was irritated that it was Ms. S's mum

Yeah, that was a bit too convenient. But one of the commenters at the AV Club postulated that it could have been Ethan Duncan setting things up that way long ago.

I'll second the WTF Delphine sentiment. That was cold and professional, like she had done it before.posted by plastic_animals at 6:45 AM on June 14, 2015

I'll second the WTF Delphine sentiment

I think there were high emotional stakes there, as Delphine believed Shay had betrayed Cosima (whom D still loves I assume), and Cosima's life is at risk along with all the sisters'. Given all that, the interrogation didn't seem over the top to me. I think Delphine was just doing what she thought she had to do, and was extremely angry as well. "You crazy jealous bitch" seemed about right from Shay's perspective, but OTOH there's a lot more going on that Shay doesn't know about.

Speaking of over-the-top, were we to assume that Helena wiped out ALL the drug folks in the warehouse?posted by torticat at 11:05 AM on June 14, 2015

Speaking of over-the-top, were we to assume that Helena wiped out ALL the drug folks in the warehouse?

I think so, otherwise how did she get (ostensibly) ALL the money to be had, rather than just the "refund".posted by pjern at 12:05 PM on June 14, 2015 [1 favorite]

Speaking of over-the-top, were we to assume that Helena wiped out ALL the drug folks in the warehouse?

Since they "won't be coming back for change" from her "refund" I'm assuming she did. But! since we didn't see any dead bodies, we can also safely assume that one might could still be alive. There's always that chance. And, since they didn't know it was Helena doing the slicing and dicing, they'll assume it was "the wife" and either shit will come down on Alison and Donnie, or things might start looking up for them. It could go either way.

I'm actually not surprised at all that it's Mrs. S's mum that's at the root of it all. I don't think that the Duncans were behind Mrs. S getting Sarah, because she's a the wild card in Leda, but I do think that they did bring her in to keep an eye on her mother's progeny, even if it was unknowingly. I have the idea that they thought that she'd feel the kinship and do everything she could to help them.

But now I'm wondering (because they do look alike to me) if she and the Castor "mother" -- I forget her name -- are in any way related.posted by patheral at 12:10 PM on June 14, 2015 [2 favorites]

we can also safely assume that one might could still be alive. There's always that chance.

Yeah... I'm hoping that's not the case because the whole drug-dealer-Alison thing could be a fun little self-contained arc that ends with her scoring a lot of cash. From the beginning of the series, Alison was the one funding the sisters' research. For her to continue that this season works for me, but I don't have a lot of interest in the story line going forward.

The other wild card of course is Jason, who wasn't in the warehouse. I expect we'll see more of him next week, because his attraction to Alison (and v/v) hasn't been resolved.posted by torticat at 3:49 PM on June 14, 2015

One other thing I wanted to comment on--Felix gets a lot of props and rightly so for such great chemistry with all the different clones. But I totally love Donnie in that regard too. His interactions with Helena the last couple episodes have been comic genius. I love how he relates to her kind of like he relates to Alison (i.e. she says "sit down" and he sits), but it's different too because there is an underlying wariness of Helena's complete craziness.posted by torticat at 3:54 PM on June 14, 2015 [4 favorites]

Ok, my new fervent wish for the show is for Helena to stay with Allison's family and become the daughter's martial arts coach.posted by TwoStride at 7:51 PM on June 14, 2015 [3 favorites]

Yes, to Donnie's interactions with the clones. I already stated my love of the Donnie/Helena moments, but I realized that my brain still thinks of the clones separate people, because I actually had the thought, oh good it's nice to get to see Donnie and Helena work together. Which while, true, for some value of true, makes me laugh at my brain.

I also noticed that Helena's pink affect around her eyes was toned down, which made me wonder as others have what the show runners intend with her "look." I was thinking she was looking well rested, and less pink, so I was thinking that might be what they were going for, but then I decided clearly what she needs to do is replenish her look with blood! Seriously, I do feel for the character that she can't seem to escape her past, a lesson all the clones must feel pretty strongly.posted by dawg-proud at 8:02 PM on June 14, 2015

On the one hand it makes sense that Mrs. S would have gotten roped into this because she had a personal connection to the original Leda. On the other hand how could she not notice that her foster daughter (presumably) looked exactly like her mother?posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 4:41 AM on June 15, 2015

Helena is usually very thorough in her butchery so she probably did a good job of killing them all, I'm sure. I just get the niggling feeling that one (I'm thinking the woman) may be "not quite dead" yet.

I'm also sure that we'll see Jason in the finale since that arc hasn't been resolved (as toricat pointed out). Also, I don't think that the House o' Hendrix will escape this as unscathed as the last two seasons. Their luck has to run out sometime, and one does not have a sack of drug money drop on one's lap and escape without consequences. Even in the world of the clones. Especially when you are known to have dealings with the butchered drug lord. Also, I'm fairly sure that the slaughter was caught on camera, and since no one outside of the clone club knows about Helena (except Art) the people involved are going to think Alison (possibly Sarah for those who know about her) killed them -- while wearing a blonde wig.

About Sarah looking exactly like Mrs. S's mom... think about this. Mrs. S only knew her mom as an adult. She never saw her as a young girl or a teenager because that's Mrs. S's mom. How could she? Now, some people look very much the same as they grow older (I have people recognize me who haven't seen me since elementary school), but some people change significantly as they grow from year to year. My son, for example looks nothing like he did as a child. If he went to his high school reunion, no one would know who he is, except maybe by height. He's very tall. So it's perfectly feasible that Mrs. S could have raised Sarah from a very young age and only got a "she looks familiar somehow" vibe without connecting the dots.posted by patheral at 9:20 AM on June 15, 2015

I just get the niggling feeling that one (I'm thinking the woman) may be "not quite dead" yet.

She's the one who explicitly threatened the bebbiss. I'm pretty sure she's in as many little pieces as possible.posted by Thorzdad at 3:16 PM on June 15, 2015 [2 favorites]

Boy, those trailers are getting nearly as cryptic as the Mad Men trailers, aren't they?

I had a satisfying "Oh my God!" moment when we learned the woman was S's mother.

Nice to see Maria Doyle Kennedy singing!

Who makes a worse Alison, Helena or Cosima?posted by rednikki at 10:25 PM on June 15, 2015

I would watch the hell out of a Helena-as-Alison with Donnie spin-off.posted by Thorzdad at 4:22 AM on June 16, 2015

So, something just occurred to me. Why would Gracie call Cosima? She hardly interacted with Cosima at all. I don't remember her talking to her in person... ever. But I may have missed it. It would make more sense for her to call Alison -- whom she was really betraying because Alison took her in, gave her a job, and made her part of the family -- if she wanted to confess. I know she'd already said her "good bye" to Alison earlier in the episode, but she didn't confess.

So why call Cosima, a woman she hardly knew? I'll tell you why, because the people she was working with told her to call Cosima and confess to her to throw the light away from Shay. It makes perfect sense that Shay is also a mole and while the two women weren't working together, they are most certainly working for the same people.

ETA... I totally forgot she went to Dyad for a medical check up with Cosima. Still, she hardly knew the woman. It still doesn't make sense for her to call Cosima. I think.posted by patheral at 9:25 AM on June 16, 2015 [1 favorite]

I dunno. I would have called Cosima too. Gracie's interaction with Cosima was intimate (due to the sensitive medical screening) and Cosima demonstrated a nearly motherly compassion during the whole ordeal. Alison is high-strung and can be terrifying. Plus Gracie may have felt just too damn guilty about the betrayal to dump it on the person who took her in. I would certainly opt for confessing to the kindly near-stranger in a painful case such as this.posted by angeline at 11:17 AM on June 16, 2015 [2 favorites]

I also thought the original being S's mother was slightly too convenient. I hope Prof Duncan had some kind of grand scheme to tie it all together.

Also, why does Helena's "bebbies" crack me up so much?posted by numaner at 1:22 PM on June 16, 2015

She hardly interacted with Cosima at all.
No, they interacted a lot when Cosima examined Gracie because she was ill. She told Gracie she couldn't have any kids.posted by Pendragon at 11:20 PM on June 16, 2015

Quite torture-y, this episode.

Did they actually shoot in London? I'm guessing not; the shot of them arriving in the taxi looked awfully composited. (Here's a historic building, and here's a row of terraces right behind it, and look there's NO TRAFFIC OR PARKED CARS.)posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 11:36 PM on June 17, 2015 [1 favorite]

They mentioned on the After the Black show that the historic building is on the University of Toronto campus with the background row greenscreened in. Someone from the show (cinematographer maybe, I forget) took a bunch of photos while on vacation in London.posted by plastic_animals at 4:01 AM on June 18, 2015

It makes perfect sense that Shay is also a mole and while the two women weren't working together

I wasn't entirely lucid while watching this (thanks, stomach bug!) but has anything been explained about Shay's past beyond that she was in "the military"? I somehow assumed she was Mossad, but then I realized I don't have any way to back that up.posted by psoas at 10:49 AM on June 24, 2015

Hi I'm binge-watching and not being able to read the threads fast enough to catch up, so apologies if similar sentiments are expressed above:

Helena walking out of the kingpin's place all bloody, "I got refund. We should go now," got the biggest laugh out of me, which I take as proof positive that this show has fucked me up good. So good.posted by carsonb at 7:32 PM on November 9, 2017

I'm also binge watching this and by this point I enjoy the characters too much to worry that I can't make sense out of the plot.

I could watch entire shows just about Helena and Alison.

Who would have thought it would have been Helena to deliver some small measure of retribution for Vic?posted by MoonOrb at 7:28 PM on May 27, 2018

Nice to see Maria Doyle Kennedy singing!

I looked her up when I started watching the series and lo and behold, she started out in The Commitments.