Are you sure you would have more supporters on a Finnish board, as it is I don't see many Finnish fans coming to your aid here!

Damn, I wish I had seen this thread sooner . I totally woulda helped Finnish Wing out with my wannabe-homerism.

As for heart (sisu), this is as much of it as you'll ever see. If Kapanen doesn't get up, Roenick doesn't score. How many players would have stayed on the ice? I think most.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1E1EaHOQre0

You don't think the Ruutu brothers have heart? Saku Koivu doesn't have heart? Filppula doesn't have heart? Anssi Salmela, clearly never having fought in his life, took an asswhooping as well as anyone could. He could have backed down, but he didn't. That's heart, and that's how the Finns roll.

Geez. I guess that -7 (keep 'em coming!) for one post is a new record or something. At least now I know which strings to pull if I wanna be a successful troll around here.

Nah. Somebody had like a -65 or something for a post once.It was really stupid beyond belief.Your post at least made sense if taken in context with everything else that was said. You have a ways to go before we can call you a complete idiot.

Any bets on Ozzie being chosen to meet Hudler at the airport so they can have a cluck before they get down to business?

Haha. So Olli Jokinen is the basic Finnish player in your opinion? You're so frikin stupid that it's not worth the time to even try to argue with you.

Koivu bros have more heart than all those players.

The fact is that if you've ever even watched Team USA and Team Finland play, you'd know that Finland plays with more heart and works harder.

Yeah start naming some really hard working Finnish players. And make sure they are in the NHL. Players in the Finnish Elite League and other Euro leagues don't count because they aren't the top talent.

Now we could compare the Finnish elite League to the WHL which is probably similar skill level if you want? But I'll tell you right now there is no way youre winning an argument about the FEL being a tougher, harder working league.

The Koivu brothers I wouldn't consider really hard working players with a lot of heart. Sure Saku came back from cancer but that doesn't mean he plays with a tonne of heart.

Canada and the states players are generally much harder workers then the European players.

Yeah start naming some really hard working Finnish players. And make sure they are in the NHL. Players in the Finnish Elite League and other Euro leagues don't count because they aren't the top talent.

Now we could compare the Finnish elite League to the WHL which is probably similar skill level if you want? But I'll tell you right now there is no way youre winning an argument about the FEL being a tougher, harder working league.

The Koivu brothers I wouldn't consider really hard working players with a lot of heart. Sure Saku came back from cancer but that doesn't mean he plays with a tonne of heart.

Canada and the states players are generally much harder workers then the European players.

Just a warning,in his book,you're automatically a dumbass and you're not a true hockey fan and you should be ashamed of yourself for even bothering to talk to him if you even disagree with him the slightest bit.

"Ice hockey is a form of disorderly conduct in which the score is kept."

Geez. I guess that -7 (keep 'em coming!) for one post is a new record or something. At least now I know which strings to pull if I wanna be a successful troll around here.

As a proud blooded American, I +ed it. I have never heard of a Finnish Prima Donna, and there are few cases of one-dimensional, egocentric, or lazy Fins, with the exception of pumpkin head. I know many people think I am critical of Filppula, but one thing I can never take away from him is the fact that he hustles balls out almost every shift.

Speaking as an American player who played at a relatively high level, the sense of entitlement is almost everywhere, (myself included) and I find it hard to believe that a Finnish player with one shot to make the big bucks and leave over seas will treat it as many of my peers and myself did (granted, I have no clue how the mindset of Finland's Junior system works, but I'm just imagining that as a whole, their culture is more humble).

I am as excited as everyone else about Huds coming back. But aside from our offense, I am worried about our D. With Lids possibly not coming back, that is what scares me.

What kind of color is red? Red is a warning. A declaration. A color that says I'm ready to do what it takes. Red is focused and Driven because red doesn't like second place. So what Kind of color is red? Our kind" - The Red Wing Army

my dream is that we dont bring back cleary (gets on my nerves, BAD) or draper but i doubt that will come true.

Why does everyone seem to ALWAYS forget that Cleary has a no trade clause and a few more years on his contract? Draper also has another year. So "not bringing them back" would entail trades. Cleary simply cannot be traded. Period. End of discussion. Not even a fantasy, 1000 to 1 odds chance. And if Ken Holland traded 4 time Stanley Cup Champion and long time Wing Kris Draper in the last year of his contract, well, he and the Red Wings organization wouldn't be the group everyone here claims to be a fan of.

I know you said "dream", but it's annoying how repetitive you people are about things that just can't happen. And your lines ignore real life too... no way Z and Pasha are on a line together, and there's no way Bert stays on the 3s with as high as Babs and Kenny are on him.

YEAH! shame on him for pulling a groin this year and while healthy is one of our better forwards! The bum!!! Get him back with Hank and Mule...I realize that was now going to be 2 seasons back when that worked but I still think Clears was in rough shape at the end of the year. But get rid of him???

Yeah start naming some really hard working Finnish players. And make sure they are in the NHL. Players in the Finnish Elite League and other Euro leagues don't count because they aren't the top talent.

Now we could compare the Finnish elite League to the WHL which is probably similar skill level if you want? But I'll tell you right now there is no way youre winning an argument about the FEL being a tougher, harder working league.

The Koivu brothers I wouldn't consider really hard working players with a lot of heart. Sure Saku came back from cancer but that doesn't mean he plays with a tonne of heart.

Canada and the states players are generally much harder workers then the European players.

I was comparing Team Finland with Team USA. I've also said a number of times that it's much harder for players outside North America to get in to the NHL if they're not skilled. There are always more players who can play tough and work hard, but those skilled guys are more rare. That's why many European players go with the skill road. And that's also why I don't need to compare only NHL players in this case.

You honestly think that junior league like WHL can be even compared with Finnish Elite League? It's a men's league. You haven't probably watched a single game of Finnish league. I've watched these junior hockey league games and I can tell you it's basically just rushing after rushing. Toni Rajala had like 5 points last year in FEL and this year he's been over ppg in WHL. FEL is the 3rd toughest league in the World and it's definitely more hard working than any of those junior leagues. This doesn't have anything to do with the Finnish style of play which I was first talking about.

You don't consider Koivu bros players with a lot of heart. OK, that's your opinion. You could ask around any NHLer and I think they wouldn't agree with you. And like I said about 21242 times already, I was comparing Team Finland and Team USA. I can just tell you that Team USA never shows the kind of heart and working hard that Team Finland does. Nothing personal though. There are many good American players, great checkers who play hard etc.

Americans just don't rate hockey as high as Finns do. The fact that there are 300 million people living in USA versus 5 million people living in Finland should give USA the clear advantage in EVERY situation, but for some reason it doesn't. They've got much greater talent and the individual stars dominate the NHL unlike Finnish players (other than goalies). It just shows when you see Team USA play, that they don't have the drive like some other countries do. If the guys have so much heart why is it that they can only show it when they're getting paid playing for their clubs? Why can't they show that heart and work ethic in international games where it's not about the money?

Canada and USA are GENERALLY much(?) harder workers than European players. Generally they are, I agree. However that doesn't mean USA is more hard working than Finland for example. You should understand that there are many different countries in Europe with hockey being totally different in some of them. You do realize that there are only two countries in the World where hockey is the biggest sport, and Finland is one of them. To say that Finland plays just like Czech Rep. because they're both Europeans is pretty stupid. Russia has soccer, Sweden has soccer, Czech Rep. has soccer, USA has baseball etc.

Again, this whole conversation started as you claimed that there's only European hockey and North American hockey. To say that there's as much difference between French-Canadian and Canadian hockey than Finnish and Czech hockey is pretty idiotic. How many games of different European league games have you seen? I can say that I've seen a LOT of FEL games, many SEL games, some KHL games and even some Swiss and Czech league games. But then I've also seen a lot of NHL games and international games (EHT, WC, Olympics). You really think you're in the position here to make arguments like that when you have probably seen - besides NHL games - only some international games?

I still think Team Finland plays more Canadian type hockey than Team USA. I think the main reason for that is the love for the sport. It's not as big in USA than in Finland. Hockey is bigger thing for Finns. You can have you're opinions, but - much like many other Americans (or Canadians) - you haven't really seen how the things are outside your country and outside your league.

As a proud blooded American, I +ed it. I have never heard of a Finnish Prima Donna, and there are few cases of one-dimensional, egocentric, or lazy Fins, with the exception of pumpkin head. I know many people think I am critical of Filppula, but one thing I can never take away from him is the fact that he hustles balls out almost every shift.

Speaking as an American player who played at a relatively high level, the sense of entitlement is almost everywhere, (myself included) and I find it hard to believe that a Finnish player with one shot to make the big bucks and leave over seas will treat it as many of my peers and myself did (granted, I have no clue how the mindset of Finland's Junior system works, but I'm just imagining that as a whole, their culture is more humble).

Finland's Junior system has produced (and still does) a lot of good team players with the cost of goal-scoring and game breaking abilities. There's always coming great workers that have good physical attributes, but scorers like Selanne and Kurri are too rare. It's the same thing in soccer too. Many good defenders, but not a lot of real scorers. I personally think it has a lot to do with the culture.

Finland has always been either unders Russia's or Sweden's control. There hasn't yet been even 100 years of independent nation. That's one of the main reasons Finns are always rather "defending" than "attacking". Althoug you could say the same thing about Czechs or Slovaks for example. But then you also have to see the cultural differences. The people in Central, Souther and Eastern Europe are much more "positive" in a way. They talk alot more and are generally more open. It seems like Finns get their mouths open only after few beers.

Nothing new, but I guess he is declared an official member of the roster now.

Pavel datsyuk is the best player in the world because he snatches the puck from unsuspecting players and follows it up by the simultaneous undressing of the defence pairing. The goalie then gives up, and flops like a fish. The end result is a calm skate back to his bench where he can bask in the praise of his multiple girlfriends from the motherland.

The only fin player you should be bragging about is teemu. I see a lot of fast skating, good hands fin players in our league, but what they are missing is finishing ability, a great example is hudler, he cant skate around players but doesnt have great finishing ability.

Teemu selanne is insane and if he still had that little jump in him he would still be great because he can finnish (pun totally intended)

The only fin player you should be bragging about is teemu. I see a lot of fast skating, good hands fin players in our league, but what they are missing is finishing ability, a great example is hudler, he cant skate around players but doesnt have great finishing ability.

Teemu selanne is insane and if he still had that little jump in him he would still be great because he can finnish (pun totally intended)

1.
sorry for dreaming!!! i said i knew we wouldnt be getting rid of draper and cleary, does it really bother you that much that i speculate the if we did aspect?? i mean it would make the team a hell of a lot more attractive and isnt that what we all want? i understand the wings are loyal and draper isnt going anywhere so just relax... im just speculating what if

2.
zberg and dats could play on the same line but they like to spread the talent to go with a more well rounded 1-2 punch as well as a center on each top line that is elite on both ends of the ice. instead of having 1 top line you get 2 i understand it. i also understand that they both are amazing on both ends of the ice and they possess the ability to shut down a teams top line while throwing either our 1b unit (dats or z line) at their secondary unit.
flipper can also play center and has been watching dats and z for years and seems to have been taking notes on their defensive play. therefore i say put zberg on dats wing giving him less defensive responsibility and more time to concentrate on the offense and have filpula centering zbergs line it could seriously open things offensively while having the same overall idea of a 1-2 punch. flip franzen hudler could be a great potent 2nd unit and dats and z together could mean 40 goals+ for z.

ohh wait i was dreaming again, sorry i forget how im not supposed to do that on LGW