free-range politics, organic community

Democratic Party Civil Wars: The DLC Empire Strikes Back

Submitted by gjohnsit on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 11:25pm

The progressive grassroots is stirring to life for the first time in recent memory.
Even in surprising places like East Texas progressives are “coming out of the woodwork” like never before.
Democratic Party insiders have noticed.

“I’ve never seen such dedication and action in the grass-roots communities since the Vietnam War until this year,” Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., said on a conference call Sunday with MoveOn.org. “And you’re really helping us tremendously.”

Yes. Helping. Further down in the same article there was a different story.

On Monday, about a dozen leaders of grass-roots progressive groups tried to deliver boxes of petitions to the Senate Democrats’ political arm, the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, demanding that it stop funding three incumbent Democrats, each up for re-election next year, who said they would support Gorsuch’s nomination: Sens. Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota, Joe Donnelly of Indiana and Joe Manchin of West Virginia.
The activists tried to make the delivery to the committee’s chairman, Sen. Chris Van Hollen of Maryland, or its executive director, Mindy Myers. Instead, an unnamed aide came to the door, collected the boxes and eventually told them that no one was available to meet.
“Not right now, I’m so sorry,” the aide said, standing in the doorway of a building across the street from the Capitol. “Thank you guys so much.”

Democratic politicians should just photocopy "Not right now" and hand it to all the progressive activists they meet, because no one detests and disrespects their base like Democrats. To put it simply, the Democratic Party 'just isn't into them'. The Democratic Party wants to be Republicans, and it isn't even hiding it.

It begs the question: if a party's base is overwhelmingly liberal and progressive, and urges the party to move left, where is the push-back coming from?

For many years, Democrats proudly associated themselves with the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC), a powerful group founded in the 1980s that sought to build a Democratic Party "liberated"­ from labor and grounded in "support for free market and free trade economics ... an end to the politics of 'entitlement' [and] a rejection of affirmative action."
At the height of its power the DLC was the dominant force in the party, boasting President Bill Clinton and UK Prime Minister Tony Blair as its acolytes. But like Bell's weak narcotics, the DLC, which supported the Iraq War and received money from the likes of the Koch Brothers, soon became a tainted brand. Long before 2011, when the organization dissolved, the DLC label hung around politicians like a scarlet letter.

One of these DLC-aligned groups is the Blue Dog Coalition. Formed in 1995, they reached their zenith in power in 2008 with 54 members in Congress.
Then came the 2010 and 2014 elections. By 2015 they were down to just 14 members.

"I don't think the people who ran the DLC ever really left," said Norman Solomon, a coordinator for RootsAction, in an interview with Truthout. "It is the same product, different name." Indeed, the DLC agenda is carried out today by think tanks like the Progressive Policy Institute (PPI) and Third Way, which push the same regressive agenda but under different labels, and with less public scrutiny. As the Boston Globe described in 2014, Third Way usually works "behind the scenes -- in the White House, the corridors of Congress, and the office suites of lobbying firms in downtown Washington."
Now, as Democrats face an existential crisis in the aftermath of the election of Donald Trump, these fundamentally conservative organizations, armed with millions in corporate donations, are working with a renewed aggressiveness in the public sphere. They are attempting to convince the party to shun its base and further embrace the so-called "vital center," and the corporatism that has long defined these groups.

You might think that the outrage by liberals following Trump's victory over the corporate insider and DLC favorite Hillary Clinton, would be a final rejection of Third-Way, neoliberal values.
Instead, like the Tea Party before it, it's an opportunity for the political establishment.

Sensing blood in the water since the election, the 13-year-old Third Way think tank, which was "never formally associated with DLC but self-consciously drawing on the same heritage," as former DLC staffer Ed Kilgore once wrote, has been especially aggressive. It has thrown $20 million into its "New Blue Campaign." The campaign, according to Third Way President Jonathan Cowen, aims to prevent Democrats from meeting "Donald Trump's dangerous right-wing populism with a liberal populism of our own." To put this in perspective, $20 million is enough to fund a fairly large nonprofit organization like 350.org or the Center for Constitutional Rights for about two years. However, it's a relative drop in a bucket for an organization that by its own admission is backed almost entirely by Wall Street sources.
Third Way's argument rests on the flawed notion that the Democrats have already been guilty of running a "base-only" strategy. The party's problems and electoral defeats, it argues, are because it is just too progressive for its own good.

What a coincidence! Third Way came to the very same conclusions that Republicans did!
You can bet that if the progressive grassroots keep mobilizing that New Blue Campaign will be only the first of many counter-revolutionary actions.
They will never stop spending and they will never stop spinning.

After almost every election cycle, New Democrats either try to claim responsibility for the victory or use the defeat to advance their cause. In 2006, when Democrats took back Congress in large part due to opposition to President Bush's war in Iraq, which the DLC supported, New Democrats said it was "a victory for the vital center." When Democrats got crushed in 2010, Third Way was, as an American Prospect article described it, "salivating at the prospect of a Republican-controlled House" so it could "vigorously oppose the left."

In the meantime, Sanders has recently been sounding like Dem Primary Sanders again. As if he has been freed of some private, blood-oath commitment.

Since the Democratic Party lost the 2016 presidential election, the party’s establishment has suppressed all calls for reform from progressives. Though the party appointed Sen. Bernie Sanders as its head of outreach, most Democrats continue to treat him and his supporters as unwelcome outsiders. In a recent speech, Sanders provided progressives with insight as to how to advance their values against an inept and increasingly out of touch Democratic Party.
...
"I don’t want to offend anybody, but the Democratic Party cannot continue to be just the party of the liberal elite and people who have money. It has got to be the party of the working class of this country. The Democratic Party cannot just be a party that just does well in New England and the west coast, it has got to be a 50-state party.”
While Sanders discussed why the Republican Party is successful in winning elections across the country, he blamed the Democratic Party for Trump‘s election and Republicans holding a majority in Congress and state legislatures all over the country.
“And he also assumes, quite correctly, that the Democratic Party is extremely weak and incapable of organizing people,” Sanders said in reference to how Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell is able to push policies that hurt his constituents with impunity.

to support those who are against our ambitions of what government should be?
Say it ain't so. Not a dime chucky. You and nancy can suck spores.
Wasn't Heitkamp of North Dakota one of those more and better democrats many of us used to hear about?

up

33 users have voted.

—

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

“I’ve never seen such dedication and action in the grass-roots communities since the Vietnam War until this year,” Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., said on a conference call Sunday with MoveOn.org. “And you’re really helping us tremendously.”

Chuck, don't look now but those who are motivated anew are not out to help you, they are out to destroy you. But of course, you and your high-flying pal Nancy Pelosi don't need no changes. Turn about is fair play. Claire McCaskill gets it--she is shitless about being primaries by Progressives--as well she will. "Bernie supporters, I want you, I need you. I want to talk to you"/

Yeah, Claire, you wanna talk to some Bernie Bros and sexist puritans? In case you haven't figured this out, Chuckie, Nancy and Claire--the Bernie wing does not want you, need you, respect you. Just look at the handsome treatment received by the Progressive wing by the DNC. Makes you feel wanted, don't it.

Yeah, Dems are really, really good at convincing people with alternative views to come to the Dem side. How about Tom Perez, proudly announcing that Republicans don't give a shit about people?
While this may be true of the Repug establishment, it is equally true about you, you smug, whiny bastard. The "bases" of both parties are closer to each other than they are to the establishment, regardless of flavor.

Of course, we mustn't forget Hillary (although I for one would like to). Yes, she befriended all those not firmly in the D camp (i.e., those Bots who were willing to vote for her) by affixing the adorable Deplorable label. That label is much more suited for Disgraced Debbie and Duplicitous Donna.

@Alligator Ed
until the grassroots can primary-out some corporate Dems.
Only when they start losing their jobs will they stop looking at the progressive base with contempt, and start looking at it with fear. (those are the only two choices)

“I’ve never seen such dedication and action in the grass-roots communities since the Vietnam War until this year,” Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., said on a conference call Sunday with MoveOn.org. “And you’re really helping us tremendously.”

Chuck, don't look now but those who are motivated anew are not out to help you, they are out to destroy you. But of course, you and your high-flying pal Nancy Pelosi don't need no changes. Turn about is fair play. Claire McCaskill gets it--she is shitless about being primaries by Progressives--as well she will. "Bernie supporters, I want you, I need you. I want to talk to you"/

Yeah, Claire, you wanna talk to some Bernie Bros and sexist puritans? In case you haven't figured this out, Chuckie, Nancy and Claire--the Bernie wing does not want you, need you, respect you. Just look at the handsome treatment received by the Progressive wing by the DNC. Makes you feel wanted, don't it.

Yeah, Dems are really, really good at convincing people with alternative views to come to the Dem side. How about Tom Perez, proudly announcing that Republicans don't give a shit about people?
While this may be true of the Repug establishment, it is equally true about you, you smug, whiny bastard. The "bases" of both parties are closer to each other than they are to the establishment, regardless of flavor.

Of course, we mustn't forget Hillary (although I for one would like to). Yes, she befriended all those not firmly in the D camp (i.e., those Bots who were willing to vote for her) by affixing the adorable Deplorable label. That label is much more suited for Disgraced Debbie and Duplicitous Donna.

@gjohnsit
And he knows that will never happen in sufficient numbers to take leadership of the party away from the corporate Dems.

#4
until the grassroots can primary-out some corporate Dems.
Only when they start losing their jobs will they stop looking at the progressive base with contempt, and start looking at it with fear. (those are the only two choices)

up

7 users have voted.

—

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
the progressive grassroots don't have to primary-out all of the corporate Dems, or even half of the corporate Dems.
Just a significant percentage to make them afraid (I can't quote a number). At that point the corrupt leadership will start throwing each other under buses to save themselves.

#4.1 And he knows that will never happen in sufficient numbers to take leadership of the party away from the corporate Dems.

@gjohnsit
If we were living in a Republic, yes, I'd agree that round about the time we hit 33%, they would start doing exactly that. But we're not living in a Republic, and our elections were horrifically corrupt before Barack Obama handed control of them over to the Department of Homeland Security. Now, I'm not sure if it even makes sense to think about American politics electorally anymore. How can I believe that a large enough percentage of people with ideas inimical to the status quo will be allowed to win primaries? Remember the primary I just saw last year?--and that was a primary that the entire nation was watching, because the race was for the Presidency. Even so, the Clintons et al blatantly cheated, in so many different ways over the course of the campaign that I thought I was watching an election fraud tutorial. And nothing happened.

What do you think is going to happen when establishment candidates cheat in Congressional primaries, or state legislative primaries, or county council races? These are races nobody pays attention to. What's going to happen is that the Clintons will get their way, or, rather, the faction they lead will get their way. The legal system is not going to stop people from committing election fraud, not rich people from the political class, anyway.

A few progressives will be allowed to slip through, to preserve the illusion of competition. But we will never be allowed to take even 33% of Democratic party seats in any legislative body.

Hell, the only reason I think we should have a political party at all is so that the general public can know that a certain set of ideas exists, has a name, and has people backing it. So that my ideas (and yours, I think) don't disappear like a candle going out in the night--once gone, people don't even understand they were ever there. We're in grave danger of our entire philosophy being silenced for the indefinite future. That's why Bernie ran in the first place, to make sure that didn't happen (that's my view, anyway).

#4.1.1
the progressive grassroots don't have to primary-out all of the corporate Dems, or even half of the corporate Dems.
Just a significant percentage to make them afraid (I can't quote a number). At that point the corrupt leadership will start throwing each other under buses to save themselves.

up

9 users have voted.

—

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

We're in grave danger of our entire philosophy being silenced for the indefinite future.

Philosophy, as well as the entire history of human culture. Museums, libraries, great universities, countless cities and oceans, people, animals, all growing things.

#4.1.1.1 If we were living in a Republic, yes, I'd agree that round about the time we hit 33%, they would start doing exactly that. But we're not living in a Republic, and our elections were horrifically corrupt before Barack Obama handed control of them over to the Department of Homeland Security. Now, I'm not sure if it even makes sense to think about American politics electorally anymore. How can I believe that a large enough percentage of people with ideas inimical to the status quo will be allowed to win primaries? Remember the primary I just saw last year?--and that was a primary that the entire nation was watching, because the race was for the Presidency. Even so, the Clintons et al blatantly cheated, in so many different ways over the course of the campaign that I thought I was watching an election fraud tutorial. And nothing happened.

What do you think is going to happen when establishment candidates cheat in Congressional primaries, or state legislative primaries, or county council races? These are races nobody pays attention to. What's going to happen is that the Clintons will get their way, or, rather, the faction they lead will get their way. The legal system is not going to stop people from committing election fraud, not rich people from the political class, anyway.

A few progressives will be allowed to slip through, to preserve the illusion of competition. But we will never be allowed to take even 33% of Democratic party seats in any legislative body.

Hell, the only reason I think we should have a political party at all is so that the general public can know that a certain set of ideas exists, has a name, and has people backing it. So that my ideas (and yours, I think) don't disappear like a candle going out in the night--once gone, people don't even understand they were ever there. We're in grave danger of our entire philosophy being silenced for the indefinite future. That's why Bernie ran in the first place, to make sure that didn't happen (that's my view, anyway).

@gjohnsit
I see no hope of any sort of internal reform until they believe their jobs depend on it. Right now, they believe -- accurately -- that their jobs depend on money... phat sacks of cash money to buy shiny TV spots to indoctrinate the voters. It's my mission to disabuse them of that notion.

#4
until the grassroots can primary-out some corporate Dems.
Only when they start losing their jobs will they stop looking at the progressive base with contempt, and start looking at it with fear. (those are the only two choices)

up

0 users have voted.

—

A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

@Alligator Ed
As long as they're still inside the Democratic Party, he doesn't give a shit.

“I’ve never seen such dedication and action in the grass-roots communities since the Vietnam War until this year,” Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., said on a conference call Sunday with MoveOn.org. “And you’re really helping us tremendously.”

Chuck, don't look now but those who are motivated anew are not out to help you, they are out to destroy you. But of course, you and your high-flying pal Nancy Pelosi don't need no changes. Turn about is fair play. Claire McCaskill gets it--she is shitless about being primaries by Progressives--as well she will. "Bernie supporters, I want you, I need you. I want to talk to you"/

Yeah, Claire, you wanna talk to some Bernie Bros and sexist puritans? In case you haven't figured this out, Chuckie, Nancy and Claire--the Bernie wing does not want you, need you, respect you. Just look at the handsome treatment received by the Progressive wing by the DNC. Makes you feel wanted, don't it.

Yeah, Dems are really, really good at convincing people with alternative views to come to the Dem side. How about Tom Perez, proudly announcing that Republicans don't give a shit about people?
While this may be true of the Repug establishment, it is equally true about you, you smug, whiny bastard. The "bases" of both parties are closer to each other than they are to the establishment, regardless of flavor.

Of course, we mustn't forget Hillary (although I for one would like to). Yes, she befriended all those not firmly in the D camp (i.e., those Bots who were willing to vote for her) by affixing the adorable Deplorable label. That label is much more suited for Disgraced Debbie and Duplicitous Donna.

@humphrey
Maybe the most self-serving member of a body filled with self-serving members. If he does win re-election in 2018 and it's 51 Dem and 49 Rep, he would change parties to make it 50-50 with the Veep as tie breaker. But not until he's brokered one helluva sweetheart deal. Joe is for Joe.

"I don’t want to offend anybody, but the Democratic Party cannot continue to be just the party of the liberal elite and people who have money. It has got to be the party of the working class of this country. The Democratic Party cannot just be a party that just does well in New England and the west coast, it has got to be a 50-state party.”

No political party can be the party for the liberal elite and people who have money AND the working class. And if he doesn't want to offend the rich liberal elite maybe he should retire.

@Big Al
Does an average of $27 ring a bell? Oligarchy was one of his stump comments.Who has he represented his whole life?

"I don’t want to offend anybody, but the Democratic Party cannot continue to be just the party of the liberal elite and people who have money. It has got to be the party of the working class of this country. The Democratic Party cannot just be a party that just does well in New England and the west coast, it has got to be a 50-state party.”

No political party can be the party for the liberal elite and people who have money AND the working class. And if he doesn't want to offend the rich liberal elite maybe he should retire.

Bernie is one of those kindly sellouts who thinks that maybe he could get you something for having sold out, like $11 billion for clinics attached to the ACA, which is what he got. I'm sure it's totally worth the $190 I send insurance companies every month for a policy which would demand hundreds more before it actually benefited me. Otherwise, yeah, he's one of these cultural "Leftists" who talks up a good game and makes a good posture or two but whose actions say that the status quo is fine with a couple of alterations here or there. Kind of like how he's an "independent" so that real independents would have to cut the same deal that he did with the Democratic Party to stay in business.

up

20 users have voted.

—

"The Democratic Party is better than the Republican Party in the way that manslaughter is slightly better than murder: It might seem like a lesser crime, but the victim can’t really tell the difference." -- Michael Harriot

The opaque comments made by the Draft Bernie guy about scuttlebutt from inside the Sanders camp

Sanders is the real leader of the Democratic party right now, and he is not even a registered Democrat. He is striking a stark contrast with the rollover corporatists and also calling them to account. To me he looks to be in a very strong position with the electorate and the Dems have no one who can really compete with him. The handful that could would only do so with his blessing (imo).

Could be completely wrong here but the gut of truth thinks he's going to set up a third party, building out orgs within the current Dem state apparatus gives you a great jump on building the new party and its infrastructure. As well as large newsworthy defections. Look at the states the Our Revolution team targeted first and the consequences of a majority of the elected state party reps walking out of a state convention to form a new party?

@gendjinn
out there - 3rd party, 4th party, Dem party, any party that can compete with the old man. Nobody.
I believe he stays within the Dem party structure, but it doesn't really matter. Nobody these days votes for a "party."
Bernie is God. He played virtually every card right and by virtue of that holds the place of Top Dog. I know the purists whine, but until they come up with a competitor they got nuthin'. Whether he stays within the party or "goes rogue" doesn't really matter. Bernie is going to get some Berniecrats elected in 2018 and 2020.

I have a strong sense that he is winding up to do something major. Outside the Dems.

The opaque comments made by the Draft Bernie guy about scuttlebutt from inside the Sanders camp

Sanders is the real leader of the Democratic party right now, and he is not even a registered Democrat. He is striking a stark contrast with the rollover corporatists and also calling them to account. To me he looks to be in a very strong position with the electorate and the Dems have no one who can really compete with him. The handful that could would only do so with his blessing (imo).

Could be completely wrong here but the gut of truth thinks he's going to set up a third party, building out orgs within the current Dem state apparatus gives you a great jump on building the new party and its infrastructure. As well as large newsworthy defections. Look at the states the Our Revolution team targeted first and the consequences of a majority of the elected state party reps walking out of a state convention to form a new party?

It's that or Uncle Don Able Archer's us into plasma.

up

20 users have voted.

—

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

@Wink
The reality is that the Democratic Party is, simply put, tainted goods.

Instead of capitalizing on the intense popularity he has, he is desperately trying to rehabilitate the grotesque and monstrous Democratic Party. The party is poison to many.

He could unite so many, but instead he sticks with an entity that many are repulsed by. He continues to merely nibble around the edges of our political system, while claiming he is so radical and different.

#10
out there - 3rd party, 4th party, Dem party, any party that can compete with the old man. Nobody.
I believe he stays within the Dem party structure, but it doesn't really matter. Nobody these days votes for a "party."
Bernie is God. He played virtually every card right and by virtue of that holds the place of Top Dog. I know the purists whine, but until they come up with a competitor they got nuthin'. Whether he stays within the party or "goes rogue" doesn't really matter. Bernie is going to get some Berniecrats elected in 2018 and 2020.

@Strife Delivery
The Dems are pretty much DOA, especially if HRC keeps interfering. But Bernie is elderly and the movement needs younger blood to pick up the standard. Amorphous, leaderless movements go nowhere, like Occupy. Need a Jesus-figure. Not a Custer figure.

#10.1 The reality is that the Democratic Party is, simply put, tainted goods.

Instead of capitalizing on the intense popularity he has, he is desperately trying to rehabilitate the grotesque and monstrous Democratic Party. The party is poison to many.

He could unite so many, but instead he sticks with an entity that many are repulsed by. He continues to merely nibble around the edges of our political system, while claiming he is so radical and different.

up

16 users have voted.

—

Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

@Strife Delivery@Strife Delivery
and as he does that, he undermines his own credibility. Then, inevitably, some people point that out. Then, inevitably, other people attack them for being disloyal to Bernie. That creates another fracture. The same when he creates, or supports, more NGOs. If the NGO in question doesn't live up to Bernie's rhetoric, at least in its creation, mission statement, rules--then some people inevitably point out the distance between the rhetoric and the reality. Then, inevitably other people blame the first group of people for being purity-chasers and unicorn-hunters. That creates more fractures.

This is what happens when leadership is trying to play it both ways. FDR was no saint, but he got some things very right:

When Bernie talks to the Democratic Party like this, get back to me. When he has a cadre of people running the various NGOs he's associated with who talk like this and back it up with deeds, maybe--maybe--I'll consider getting on board with the Justice Democrats, BNC, etc.

But since June he's not even matching the much more conservative (and now shill) Howard Dean for impact:

#10.1 The reality is that the Democratic Party is, simply put, tainted goods.

Instead of capitalizing on the intense popularity he has, he is desperately trying to rehabilitate the grotesque and monstrous Democratic Party. The party is poison to many.

He could unite so many, but instead he sticks with an entity that many are repulsed by. He continues to merely nibble around the edges of our political system, while claiming he is so radical and different.

up

7 users have voted.

—

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

@Wink
After forty-odd years of watching the voting public cast ballots for the "lesser" of two evils merely out of respect for the two-party system, we can now say that "nobody these days votes for a 'party.'"

Well OK then.

#10
out there - 3rd party, 4th party, Dem party, any party that can compete with the old man. Nobody.
I believe he stays within the Dem party structure, but it doesn't really matter. Nobody these days votes for a "party."
Bernie is God. He played virtually every card right and by virtue of that holds the place of Top Dog. I know the purists whine, but until they come up with a competitor they got nuthin'. Whether he stays within the party or "goes rogue" doesn't really matter. Bernie is going to get some Berniecrats elected in 2018 and 2020.

up

9 users have voted.

—

"The Democratic Party is better than the Republican Party in the way that manslaughter is slightly better than murder: It might seem like a lesser crime, but the victim can’t really tell the difference." -- Michael Harriot

@Wink
The leaders out there have yet to make themselves known to us. I've seen some very promising millennials that could take up the mantle but they are very young compared to our normal expectations of seniority in the political system. An assumption I see being overturned.

The Brand New Congress, Justice Democrats, Our Revolution folks all have open nomination processes to recruit and vet candidates.

#10
out there - 3rd party, 4th party, Dem party, any party that can compete with the old man. Nobody.
I believe he stays within the Dem party structure, but it doesn't really matter. Nobody these days votes for a "party."
Bernie is God. He played virtually every card right and by virtue of that holds the place of Top Dog. I know the purists whine, but until they come up with a competitor they got nuthin'. Whether he stays within the party or "goes rogue" doesn't really matter. Bernie is going to get some Berniecrats elected in 2018 and 2020.

Could be completely wrong here but the gut of truth thinks he's going to set up a third party, building out orgs within the current Dem state apparatus gives you a great jump on building the new party and its infrastructure.

People forget that Bernie maintained his 'independence' for many, many years before trying to reform the Dems, which I thought was a good move. I agreed with his reasons for trying it.

But now he's had some weeks of discussions with the defeated Dem leadership. He may have once hoped that the Centrists would retrench and try to stay low for a while, but no such luck. They are doubling down, instead.

I'm now definitely getting the feeling that he is starting to see futility where he once saw faint signs of hope.

He may be starting to see that the Progressive cause has little or no hope investing itself in the Dem party, but that certain key dynamics (the internet, social media, the massive failure of the Dem party leadership) have perhaps made it possible for a new party matching his own vision to start sucking up those disaffected Independents.

The voter-identification numbers are now getting so ridiculous that he has to wonder if a seismic shift may not be the only chance for Progressives to represent The People on the political stage.

In the meantime, he's been talking to a lot of people and getting a sense of who he might, or might not be able bring along with him from the Dem party to the new one people are wishing for.

We shall see...

I have a strong sense that he is winding up to do something major. Outside the Dems.

The opaque comments made by the Draft Bernie guy about scuttlebutt from inside the Sanders camp

Sanders is the real leader of the Democratic party right now, and he is not even a registered Democrat. He is striking a stark contrast with the rollover corporatists and also calling them to account. To me he looks to be in a very strong position with the electorate and the Dems have no one who can really compete with him. The handful that could would only do so with his blessing (imo).

Could be completely wrong here but the gut of truth thinks he's going to set up a third party, building out orgs within the current Dem state apparatus gives you a great jump on building the new party and its infrastructure. As well as large newsworthy defections. Look at the states the Our Revolution team targeted first and the consequences of a majority of the elected state party reps walking out of a state convention to form a new party?

@James Kroeger
being "stuck in their ways." A less pejorative phrase would be "habit-formed." My Mom, for instance, who turned eighty last month, sticks pretty closely to routine throughout her day. Perhaps my Mom is not the best example; it's good to stick to routine when you're concerned with having memory issues.

You'd think Bernie would have guessed where this was headed already, after the nonsense at the convention and after all the election "irregularities" and after everyone looked the other way while Clinton botched the November election and after Obama had Perez installed. They're paid off and they really don't care, and they've hired him to be head cheerleader for the "vote for the (D)" function only because they can't get rid of him or because as a Senator from a small state full of liberals they've concluded he's not worth the effort.

I'm now definitely getting the feeling that he is starting to see futility where he once saw faint signs of hope.

If I were looking for someone to have an epiphany at age 75, maybe it would be Bernie...

Could be completely wrong here but the gut of truth thinks he's going to set up a third party, building out orgs within the current Dem state apparatus gives you a great jump on building the new party and its infrastructure.

People forget that Bernie maintained his 'independence' for many, many years before trying to reform the Dems, which I thought was a good move. I agreed with his reasons for trying it.

But now he's had some weeks of discussions with the defeated Dem leadership. He may have once hoped that the Centrists would retrench and try to stay low for a while, but no such luck. They are doubling down, instead.

I'm now definitely getting the feeling that he is starting to see futility where he once saw faint signs of hope.

He may be starting to see that the Progressive cause has little or no hope investing itself in the Dem party, but that certain key dynamics (the internet, social media, the massive failure of the Dem party leadership) have perhaps made it possible for a new party matching his own vision to start sucking up those disaffected Independents.

The voter-identification numbers are now getting so ridiculous that he has to wonder if a seismic shift may not be the only chance for Progressives to represent The People on the political stage.

In the meantime, he's been talking to a lot of people and getting a sense of who he might, or might not be able bring along with him from the Dem party to the new one people are wishing for.

We shall see...

up

10 users have voted.

—

"The Democratic Party is better than the Republican Party in the way that manslaughter is slightly better than murder: It might seem like a lesser crime, but the victim can’t really tell the difference." -- Michael Harriot

@Cassiodorus
They kept him on because he has what they lack: credibility. Also because they knew that if they got him to work for them, they would immediately divide what was left of his supporters after he already lost some by backing Hillary.

It's a win-win for them. Plus it gives them a way to insult him, which is unnecessary, but fun.

"Majority Leader? No, we're not making Bernie Majority Leader. We are making him Head of Outreach, though."

#10.2 being "stuck in their ways." A less pejorative phrase would be "habit-formed." My Mom, for instance, who turned eighty last month, sticks pretty closely to routine throughout her day. Perhaps my Mom is not the best example; it's good to stick to routine when you're concerned with having memory issues.

You'd think Bernie would have guessed where this was headed already, after the nonsense at the convention and after all the election "irregularities" and after everyone looked the other way while Clinton botched the November election and after Obama had Perez installed. They're paid off and they really don't care, and they've hired him to be head cheerleader for the "vote for the (D)" function only because they can't get rid of him or because as a Senator from a small state full of liberals they've concluded he's not worth the effort.

I'm now definitely getting the feeling that he is starting to see futility where he once saw faint signs of hope.

If I were looking for someone to have an epiphany at age 75, maybe it would be Bernie...

up

6 users have voted.

—

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

#10.2.1 They kept him on because he has what they lack: credibility. Also because they knew that if they got him to work for them, they would immediately divide what was left of his supporters after he already lost some by backing Hillary.

It's a win-win for them. Plus it gives them a way to insult him, which is unnecessary, but fun.

"Majority Leader? No, we're not making Bernie Majority Leader. We are making him Head of Outreach, though."

up

4 users have voted.

—

"The Democratic Party is better than the Republican Party in the way that manslaughter is slightly better than murder: It might seem like a lesser crime, but the victim can’t really tell the difference." -- Michael Harriot

@James Kroeger
Could be a bit of Sanders finally giving up on the Dems, or this was the plan all along, a viable way to wake up and unify the progressive wing of the Dem party, then step by step walk them out to form a new party.

Adams/McGuinness were only banging their heads against the wall for 13 years before they started on trying to get to a negotiated settlement. In the early 80s that was an impossible task given the changes made to the constitution of the PIRA. Sanders has been banging his head against the wall for decades longer and arguably the body count is orders of magnitude higher. So the idea that Sanders is executing a multi-year plan to create a peaceful progressive revolution is not risible. Regardless the tide is rising.

Could be completely wrong here but the gut of truth thinks he's going to set up a third party, building out orgs within the current Dem state apparatus gives you a great jump on building the new party and its infrastructure.

People forget that Bernie maintained his 'independence' for many, many years before trying to reform the Dems, which I thought was a good move. I agreed with his reasons for trying it.

But now he's had some weeks of discussions with the defeated Dem leadership. He may have once hoped that the Centrists would retrench and try to stay low for a while, but no such luck. They are doubling down, instead.

I'm now definitely getting the feeling that he is starting to see futility where he once saw faint signs of hope.

He may be starting to see that the Progressive cause has little or no hope investing itself in the Dem party, but that certain key dynamics (the internet, social media, the massive failure of the Dem party leadership) have perhaps made it possible for a new party matching his own vision to start sucking up those disaffected Independents.

The voter-identification numbers are now getting so ridiculous that he has to wonder if a seismic shift may not be the only chance for Progressives to represent The People on the political stage.

In the meantime, he's been talking to a lot of people and getting a sense of who he might, or might not be able bring along with him from the Dem party to the new one people are wishing for.

It's inaccurate to say that he is the only person within the Democrats to say those things. Tulsi Gabbert, Nina Turner, Barbara Lee and, I'm sure, a majority of these so-called Berniecrats. It's just a matter of rejecting personality politics and focusing on facts and actions. That's not going to happen though, with the current corruption that rules the DNC.

I have a strong sense that he is winding up to do something major. Outside the Dems.

The opaque comments made by the Draft Bernie guy about scuttlebutt from inside the Sanders camp

Sanders is the real leader of the Democratic party right now, and he is not even a registered Democrat. He is striking a stark contrast with the rollover corporatists and also calling them to account. To me he looks to be in a very strong position with the electorate and the Dems have no one who can really compete with him. The handful that could would only do so with his blessing (imo).

Could be completely wrong here but the gut of truth thinks he's going to set up a third party, building out orgs within the current Dem state apparatus gives you a great jump on building the new party and its infrastructure. As well as large newsworthy defections. Look at the states the Our Revolution team targeted first and the consequences of a majority of the elected state party reps walking out of a state convention to form a new party?

@Timmethy2.0
"The handful that could would only do so with his blessing (imo)."

Everyone is quite junior in the traditional political sense, you know "too young" as the establishment would pejoratively portray them. But I suspect that we will be seeing that applecart rudely overturned in the upcoming political tsunami.

It's inaccurate to say that he is the only person within the Democrats to say those things. Tulsi Gabbert, Nina Turner, Barbara Lee and, I'm sure, a majority of these so-called Berniecrats. It's just a matter of rejecting personality politics and focusing on facts and actions. That's not going to happen though, with the current corruption that rules the DNC.

It's inaccurate to say that he is the only person within the Democrats to say those things. Tulsi Gabbert, Nina Turner, Barbara Lee and, I'm sure, a majority of these so-called Berniecrats. It's just a matter of rejecting personality politics and focusing on facts and actions. That's not going to happen though, with the current corruption that rules the DNC.

up

4 users have voted.

—

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

The opaque comments made by the Draft Bernie guy about scuttlebutt from inside the Sanders camp

Sanders is the real leader of the Democratic party right now, and he is not even a registered Democrat. He is striking a stark contrast with the rollover corporatists and also calling them to account. To me he looks to be in a very strong position with the electorate and the Dems have no one who can really compete with him. The handful that could would only do so with his blessing (imo).

Could be completely wrong here but the gut of truth thinks he's going to set up a third party, building out orgs within the current Dem state apparatus gives you a great jump on building the new party and its infrastructure. As well as large newsworthy defections. Look at the states the Our Revolution team targeted first and the consequences of a majority of the elected state party reps walking out of a state convention to form a new party?

@gjohnsit
The DraftBernie comments on the Humanist Report, while being very much in the tea leaves reading sphere are quite suggestive of a move by Sanders if he believes it is viable. If it is going to happen there is a tight time line.

Sanders does see that it is reform or revolution. Currently reading The Great Leveler by Walter Scheidel which has the basic thesis that wealth inequality is only ever reduced with violence, the greater the wealth, the greater the leveling, the greater the degree of violence.

#10
but he's been doing some serious reform talking recently.
I believe he has something in mind.

Yup. Apparently the only time any US Party has been replaced by a new Party was when some popular politician left and brought the failed party's disillusioned voters with him.

Bernie's 'Outreach' involves bringing the fact of what democratic government should be doing for the people restricted to corporate media - and he's becoming well-known and loved by otherwise corporate-media-propagandized-only people who respect his passion and sincerity, as well as his views and determination to bring whatever improvement he can to the American people.

I have a strong sense that he is winding up to do something major. Outside the Dems.

The opaque comments made by the Draft Bernie guy about scuttlebutt from inside the Sanders camp

Sanders is the real leader of the Democratic party right now, and he is not even a registered Democrat. He is striking a stark contrast with the rollover corporatists and also calling them to account. To me he looks to be in a very strong position with the electorate and the Dems have no one who can really compete with him. The handful that could would only do so with his blessing (imo).

Could be completely wrong here but the gut of truth thinks he's going to set up a third party, building out orgs within the current Dem state apparatus gives you a great jump on building the new party and its infrastructure. As well as large newsworthy defections. Look at the states the Our Revolution team targeted first and the consequences of a majority of the elected state party reps walking out of a state convention to form a new party?

It's that or Uncle Don Able Archer's us into plasma.

up

0 users have voted.

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

"I’ve never seen such dedication and action in the grass-roots communities since the Vietnam War until this year,” Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., said on a conference call Sunday with MoveOn.org. “And you’re really helping us tremendously.”

Is MoveOn.org really part of the "progressive grassroots"?

I was active with MoveOn during the Dubya years, before I understood about neoliberals. As far as I'm concerned now, MoveOn is part of the Dem establishment. During the primary, MoveOn endorsed Bernie only when pressured to do so by overwhelming vote of their membership. But they were quick to jump on the "Oh, no, Trump!!" bandwagon soon thereafter; even before the primary season officially ended, if I recall correctly.

For Schumer to address MoveOn as though they're grassroots activists just seems like more "smoke and mirrors", trying to make the actual progressive grassroots folks believe the DNC is on our side.

up

27 users have voted.

—

"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep." ~Rumi

"I’ve never seen such dedication and action in the grass-roots communities since the Vietnam War until this year,” Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., said on a conference call Sunday with MoveOn.org. “And you’re really helping us tremendously.”

Is MoveOn.org really part of the "progressive grassroots"?

I was active with MoveOn during the Dubya years, before I understood about neoliberals. As far as I'm concerned now, MoveOn is part of the Dem establishment. During the primary, MoveOn endorsed Bernie only when pressured to do so by overwhelming vote of their membership. But they were quick to jump on the "Oh, no, Trump!!" bandwagon soon thereafter; even before the primary season officially ended, if I recall correctly.

For Schumer to address MoveOn as though they're grassroots activists just seems like more "smoke and mirrors", trying to make the actual progressive grassroots folks believe the DNC is on our side.

up

18 users have voted.

—

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

"I’ve never seen such dedication and action in the grass-roots communities since the Vietnam War until this year,” Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., said on a conference call Sunday with MoveOn.org. “And you’re really helping us tremendously.”

Is MoveOn.org really part of the "progressive grassroots"?

I was active with MoveOn during the Dubya years, before I understood about neoliberals. As far as I'm concerned now, MoveOn is part of the Dem establishment. During the primary, MoveOn endorsed Bernie only when pressured to do so by overwhelming vote of their membership. But they were quick to jump on the "Oh, no, Trump!!" bandwagon soon thereafter; even before the primary season officially ended, if I recall correctly.

For Schumer to address MoveOn as though they're grassroots activists just seems like more "smoke and mirrors", trying to make the actual progressive grassroots folks believe the DNC is on our side.

Well, they certainly took over/bullied/bought most of what I used to think of a reasonable publications worth reading, but now propaganda-mills. One of many reasons I'm so grateful for here.

"I’ve never seen such dedication and action in the grass-roots communities since the Vietnam War until this year,” Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., said on a conference call Sunday with MoveOn.org. “And you’re really helping us tremendously.”

Is MoveOn.org really part of the "progressive grassroots"?

I was active with MoveOn during the Dubya years, before I understood about neoliberals. As far as I'm concerned now, MoveOn is part of the Dem establishment. During the primary, MoveOn endorsed Bernie only when pressured to do so by overwhelming vote of their membership. But they were quick to jump on the "Oh, no, Trump!!" bandwagon soon thereafter; even before the primary season officially ended, if I recall correctly.

For Schumer to address MoveOn as though they're grassroots activists just seems like more "smoke and mirrors", trying to make the actual progressive grassroots folks believe the DNC is on our side.

up

0 users have voted.

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

The rode the anti-Bush, anti-war fever into power in 2006 and 2008. And then they started governing like war hawks. Don't forget that in 2007, the sent Bush a bill that would end funding for the Gulf War. He vetoed it. Then we heard all about how they would end the wars and blah, blah, blah. So the got the presidency and their veto-proof Senate majority. And we were still at war in Iraq when Obama left office this January (despite their claims to the contrary). They will do to us what Republicans did to their base with Obamacare. Make promises they don't want to keep and make up excuses for why they can't do it once they get in a position to take action.

The rode the anti-Bush, anti-war fever into power in 2006 and 2008. And then they started governing like war hawks. Don't forget that in 2007, the sent Bush a bill that would end funding for the Gulf War. He vetoed it. Then we heard all about how they would end the wars and blah, blah, blah. So the got the presidency and their veto-proof Senate majority. And we were still at war in Iraq when Obama left office this January (despite their claims to the contrary). They will do to us what Republicans did to their base with Obamacare. Make promises they don't want to keep and make up excuses for why they can't do it once they get in a position to take action.

@gjohnsit
Progressive my ass. It's an insult to the real progressive's. I never liked it as it seemed to be a safe PC word that was not too far left and yet was 'socially liberal'. Socially liberal is another political buzz word that makes my hair stand on end. What does this mean? It means nothing that's going to make a damn difference in this FUBAR government system or even effect the lives of the people that socially liberal 'progressives' identify with and profess to support.

The hypocrisy is mind boggling. My affluent mainly white neighborhood is 'progressive' and was/is? 85% Democratic. Lot's of Black Lives matter signs along with anti-Trump signs that say we believe in love,kindness and tolerance, blab, blab. These people are comfortable they are law abiding professionals who will don a pink hat and 'resist' the pussy grabbing pig but want the Democratic city government to get the homeless off their pretty streets. They do not like real demonstrations they're not safe and disrespect property. Law and Order. Trouble makers who are most likely dangerous anarchist's.

Don't want to rock the boat and get all far leftie extremist. Policy or representation for the 'losers' in this society, well you know this is the inevitable world as we find it. As long as they can feel that they are not the bigoted, racist, sexist, other but tolerant good progressives it makes it easy and safe to vote for, support and self identify with the corrupt Democratic city government who bill themselves as progressive's.

I don't blame them their world is comfortable and they are socially liberal PBS style. I do resent the fact that they are unwilling to take on the Demorat's and stop being so damn pious about symbolic gestures that do nothing but stir the culture war pot. The progressive guy down the street flies the American flag at the drop of a hat. He says he does it to show the Republican's that they don't own it. Bernie is popular here as he too is nothing but a symbolic lefty who is working for the Demorat's and call it 'reform' you can believe in and identify with.

'To push policies that hurt his constituents with impunity.' isn't restricted to the Republican's this is a complicit by-partisan endeavor. Organizing people to come back to the Demorat fold is the very definition of sheep dogging.

@shaharazade
It's not nice to be prejudiced against other upper-middle-class people because of their skin color, culture of origin, gender, level of ability, or sexual preference.

We're all winners together.

#12.1 Progressive my ass. It's an insult to the real progressive's. I never liked it as it seemed to be a safe PC word that was not too far left and yet was 'socially liberal'. Socially liberal is another political buzz word that makes my hair stand on end. What does this mean? It means nothing that's going to make a damn difference in this FUBAR government system or even effect the lives of the people that socially liberal 'progressives' identify with and profess to support.

The hypocrisy is mind boggling. My affluent mainly white neighborhood is 'progressive' and was/is? 85% Democratic. Lot's of Black Lives matter signs along with anti-Trump signs that say we believe in love,kindness and tolerance, blab, blab. These people are comfortable they are law abiding professionals who will don a pink hat and 'resist' the pussy grabbing pig but want the Democratic city government to get the homeless off their pretty streets. They do not like real demonstrations they're not safe and disrespect property. Law and Order. Trouble makers who are most likely dangerous anarchist's.

Don't want to rock the boat and get all far leftie extremist. Policy or representation for the 'losers' in this society, well you know this is the inevitable world as we find it. As long as they can feel that they are not the bigoted, racist, sexist, other but tolerant good progressives it makes it easy and safe to vote for, support and self identify with the corrupt Democratic city government who bill themselves as progressive's.

I don't blame them their world is comfortable and they are socially liberal PBS style. I do resent the fact that they are unwilling to take on the Demorat's and stop being so damn pious about symbolic gestures that do nothing but stir the culture war pot. The progressive guy down the street flies the American flag at the drop of a hat. He says he does it to show the Republican's that they don't own it. Bernie is popular here as he too is nothing but a symbolic lefty who is working for the Demorat's and call it 'reform' you can believe in and identify with.

'To push policies that hurt his constituents with impunity.' isn't restricted to the Republican's this is a complicit by-partisan endeavor. Organizing people to come back to the Demorat fold is the very definition of sheep dogging.

up

5 users have voted.

—

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

@shaharazade
the bourgeois comfortable class is the real obstacle to change. I've observed it all of my life. They espouse the right positions not out of commitment, but to make themselves feel good and, at worst, morally superior. But when it comes to taking a risk, forget it. They're cowards because they've never been personally affected by struggle or injustice. CAVEAT- of course I am speaking generally. Not every comfortable class person is like this, but they are the exceptions to the rule.

#12.1 Progressive my ass. It's an insult to the real progressive's. I never liked it as it seemed to be a safe PC word that was not too far left and yet was 'socially liberal'. Socially liberal is another political buzz word that makes my hair stand on end. What does this mean? It means nothing that's going to make a damn difference in this FUBAR government system or even effect the lives of the people that socially liberal 'progressives' identify with and profess to support.

The hypocrisy is mind boggling. My affluent mainly white neighborhood is 'progressive' and was/is? 85% Democratic. Lot's of Black Lives matter signs along with anti-Trump signs that say we believe in love,kindness and tolerance, blab, blab. These people are comfortable they are law abiding professionals who will don a pink hat and 'resist' the pussy grabbing pig but want the Democratic city government to get the homeless off their pretty streets. They do not like real demonstrations they're not safe and disrespect property. Law and Order. Trouble makers who are most likely dangerous anarchist's.

Don't want to rock the boat and get all far leftie extremist. Policy or representation for the 'losers' in this society, well you know this is the inevitable world as we find it. As long as they can feel that they are not the bigoted, racist, sexist, other but tolerant good progressives it makes it easy and safe to vote for, support and self identify with the corrupt Democratic city government who bill themselves as progressive's.

I don't blame them their world is comfortable and they are socially liberal PBS style. I do resent the fact that they are unwilling to take on the Demorat's and stop being so damn pious about symbolic gestures that do nothing but stir the culture war pot. The progressive guy down the street flies the American flag at the drop of a hat. He says he does it to show the Republican's that they don't own it. Bernie is popular here as he too is nothing but a symbolic lefty who is working for the Demorat's and call it 'reform' you can believe in and identify with.

'To push policies that hurt his constituents with impunity.' isn't restricted to the Republican's this is a complicit by-partisan endeavor. Organizing people to come back to the Demorat fold is the very definition of sheep dogging.

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
I think they just want Trump gone. No one I know who is resisting Democratic style has any idea of what happens once he's gone. They do seem to buy into the Russian bs.or maybe they just don't care if it takes down Trump. Most are not political junkies and haven't been o line for 10+ years reading about politics, policy or issues. They like their pols articulate, polished and suave. They are also all into persona identity politics and roll models. Pence or Ryan seem even worse and why anyone thinks the Clinton crime family is preferable is beyond this 'purist'.

@shaharazade
One of the worst things is having them explain to me that Mike Pence is the lesser of two evils.

#12.1.2 I think they just want Trump gone. No one I know who is resisting Democratic style has any idea of what happens once he's gone. They do seem to buy into the Russian bs.or maybe they just don't care if it takes down Trump. Most are not political junkies and haven't been o line for 10+ years reading about politics, policy or issues. They like their pols articulate, polished and suave. They are also all into persona identity politics and roll models. Pence or Ryan seem even worse and why anyone thinks the Clinton crime family is preferable is beyond this 'purist'.

up

6 users have voted.

—

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

@Timmethy2.0
far more dangerous right now than your looniest Tea Bag nut job. They want war with Syria and they're going to get it I'm afraid. The fact that the Rump has sort of "dumped" Bannon just makes me think the Deep State has finally won him over all the way. NO more talk of deconstructing the state, can't have that when the state is such a money maker.

than Trump himself. By trying to co-opt and neutralize the authentic grass-roots opposition to Trump, so that they can keep their sycophantic jobs, they are doing damage.

And he's not really gone. I'm not going to support Trump because the DNC is corrupt. They're all liars. Trump is a conman who rips off people with fake universities. There is nothing good about Trump. The DNC is using Trump's awfulness to try to cement their own corruption.

#14 far more dangerous right now than your looniest Tea Bag nut job. They want war with Syria and they're going to get it I'm afraid. The fact that the Rump has sort of "dumped" Bannon just makes me think the Deep State has finally won him over all the way. NO more talk of deconstructing the state, can't have that when the state is such a money maker.

@Timmethy2.0@Timmethy2.0
and I know Bannon isn't really gone anywhere, but my cynical self says the PTB made it clear they don't want the state "deconstructed," whatever in hell that really means. Bannon is too extreme even for them, is my take, but only personal opinion. Trumper's getting ready to take us into Syria willingly and using dead kids to do it. And here he just had the flack of that failed "mission" in Yemen of course he doesn't see the hypocrisy in that and our media certainly won't make a peep there.

I'm not surprised at all that the Deep State got to Trump or that he's on board. They have no problem with him making a killing (pun certainly appropriate here) off of his "presidency" so he's all good doing their war bidding.

And he's not really gone. I'm not going to support Trump because the DNC is corrupt. They're all liars. Trump is a conman who rips off people with fake universities. There is nothing good about Trump. The DNC is using Trump's awfulness to try to cement their own corruption.

It's encouraging to see how engaged and willing to stand up publicly to do something people now are. That can't be a bad thing. I liked the attached stories, in the Texas Observer of communities coming together to stand with the marginalized, and the other one detailing the activist push of staring down Dems who say they'll nominate the ultra pro-business lackey to the SCOTUS by threatening to primary them (but that's where the real fight is).

The bad thing is the cynical way the Dem Party is hoping to capitalize on it.

Most of all though, I think we're in a transformative moment. With all this discontent, on both sides, there's an amazing opportunity for a 3rd party to disrupt the duopoly. But the main thing now is for the real opposition that exists on the ground to get the message loud and clear" the Democrats sold you out, have given us DrumpleThinSkin and are just as much or more in the pocket of Wall St/Big Pharma/Insurance Co's as the Repgus.

Seems to me all signs point in the direction the one and only politician with soaring numbers that are way above the fray, to take that torch and run with it. No person in all of politics has the kind of gravitas with the citizenry that Bernie has. It's something we Progressives/the Left, etc. have to come to terms with.

Because, if one of the biggest impediments is the Duopoly, which many here including myself seem to believe is, then one outcome we'd all very much like to see is the breaking of that stranglehold. A Sanders-led 3rd party coalition of disaffected Leftists, moderate Repubs, and disgusted Independents could shatter both parties, or at least put them on notice. Bernie's been saying all the right things that would give him enough support from the Right who don't like Drumpf to take such a party over the hump.

@Centaurea@Mark from Queens
that wishes to change the playing field, move that overton window to the Left. Bernie is one of a few (we can count on one hand) willing to do just that, and has been doing that for a year and a half or more. I got on board the Bernie Express late in the game, Dec. 2015, waiting to see if the old man had the chops to compete another 11 months. Turns out he did. Many thought he "sold out" after Cali, but I just looked at it as Bernie navigating the train wreck, playing the hand he was dealt, doing what he could to maintain the "movement" he helped build. Others looked at it as Bernie bowing to the party PTB, Bernie taking care of Bernie, screw the "movement. The truth may lie somewhere in the middle. While some say Bernie campaigned for Hillary, others (me included) believe he campaigned for himself (or the "movement"), delivering the same campaign message he had been delivering for a year or more. I'm sure Hillary bristled every time Bernie opened his mouth, knowing he was stabbing her in the back. Regardless, Bernie still the man (while Hillary stews in downstate NY), one of the few leaders trying to change the playing field, move that overton window to the Left. Not Left enough for some, but... who else gonna move it?

It's encouraging to see how engaged and willing to stand up publicly to do something people now are. That can't be a bad thing. I liked the attached stories, in the Texas Observer of communities coming together to stand with the marginalized, and the other one detailing the activist push of staring down Dems who say they'll nominate the ultra pro-business lackey to the SCOTUS by threatening to primary them (but that's where the real fight is).

The bad thing is the cynical way the Dem Party is hoping to capitalize on it.

Most of all though, I think we're in a transformative moment. With all this discontent, on both sides, there's an amazing opportunity for a 3rd party to disrupt the duopoly. But the main thing now is for the real opposition that exists on the ground to get the message loud and clear" the Democrats sold you out, have given us DrumpleThinSkin and are just as much or more in the pocket of Wall St/Big Pharma/Insurance Co's as the Repgus.

Seems to me all signs point in the direction the one and only politician with soaring numbers that are way above the fray, to take that torch and run with it. No person in all of politics has the kind of gravitas with the citizenry that Bernie has. It's something we Progressives/the Left, etc. have to come to terms with.

Because, if one of the biggest impediments is the Duopoly, which many here including myself seem to believe is, then one outcome we'd all very much like to see is the breaking of that stranglehold. A Sanders-led 3rd party coalition of disaffected Leftists, moderate Repubs, and disgusted Independents could shatter both parties, or at least put them on notice. Bernie's been saying all the right things that would give him enough support from the Right who don't like Drumpf to take such a party over the hump.

The time is so ripe for a 3rd party. Now.

"I’ve never seen such dedication and action in the grass-roots communities since the Vietnam War until this year,” Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., said on a conference call Sunday with MoveOn.org. “And you’re really helping us tremendously.”

Is MoveOn.org really part of the "progressive grassroots"?

I was active with MoveOn during the Dubya years, before I understood about neoliberals. As far as I'm concerned now, MoveOn is part of the Dem establishment. During the primary, MoveOn endorsed Bernie only when pressured to do so by overwhelming vote of their membership. But they were quick to jump on the "Oh, no, Trump!!" bandwagon soon thereafter; even before the primary season officially ended, if I recall correctly.

For Schumer to address MoveOn as though they're grassroots activists just seems like more "smoke and mirrors", trying to make the actual progressive grassroots folks believe the DNC is on our side.

up

9 users have voted.

—

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

It's encouraging to see how engaged and willing to stand up publicly to do something people now are. That can't be a bad thing. I liked the attached stories, in the Texas Observer of communities coming together to stand with the marginalized, and the other one detailing the activist push of staring down Dems who say they'll nominate the ultra pro-business lackey to the SCOTUS by threatening to primary them (but that's where the real fight is).

The bad thing is the cynical way the Dem Party is hoping to capitalize on it.

Most of all though, I think we're in a transformative moment. With all this discontent, on both sides, there's an amazing opportunity for a 3rd party to disrupt the duopoly. But the main thing now is for the real opposition that exists on the ground to get the message loud and clear" the Democrats sold you out, have given us DrumpleThinSkin and are just as much or more in the pocket of Wall St/Big Pharma/Insurance Co's as the Repgus.

Seems to me all signs point in the direction the one and only politician with soaring numbers that are way above the fray, to take that torch and run with it. No person in all of politics has the kind of gravitas with the citizenry that Bernie has. It's something we Progressives/the Left, etc. have to come to terms with.

Because, if one of the biggest impediments is the Duopoly, which many here including myself seem to believe is, then one outcome we'd all very much like to see is the breaking of that stranglehold. A Sanders-led 3rd party coalition of disaffected Leftists, moderate Repubs, and disgusted Independents could shatter both parties, or at least put them on notice. Bernie's been saying all the right things that would give him enough support from the Right who don't like Drumpf to take such a party over the hump.

The time is so ripe for a 3rd party. Now.

up

3 users have voted.

—

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

@orlbucfan
has simply been watching this same fucking movie for decades now, while the rest of us are just now waking up. That's great that Bernie is making the right sounds right now, but until and unless he's willing to go all the way - third party Independent with a serious and genuine challenge to BOTH sides of the duopoly - I cannot fall in line with him either. The Democrats are toast, they are not going to reform and even they fucking know it. They want to get their spoils before this whole ugly mess comes crashing down, and they rationalize that any way they can to make it seem acceptable. We have been lied to basically since the inception of this country, but now we're supposed to "believe" once again? Not nearly as easy for many who've been watching all along to agree to be fucked once again.

They may be rarer than rubies, but actual genuine liberals who have some serious coin exist. The Bernster is right. These rarities stay under the radar, but they coexist with us peons. Sheesh!!

This is good! Bernie would be the first - in fact, I believe he probably was the first politician running for Presidential office, in a long time, at any rate - to say that the people have to create the movement and make the changes themselves, in a groundswell, not count on leaders to save them.

They can't do it alone, nobody can. The corporate monster and corruption is ruthless and yuuuuuge!

#17 has simply been watching this same fucking movie for decades now, while the rest of us are just now waking up. That's great that Bernie is making the right sounds right now, but until and unless he's willing to go all the way - third party Independent with a serious and genuine challenge to BOTH sides of the duopoly - I cannot fall in line with him either. The Democrats are toast, they are not going to reform and even they fucking know it. They want to get their spoils before this whole ugly mess comes crashing down, and they rationalize that any way they can to make it seem acceptable. We have been lied to basically since the inception of this country, but now we're supposed to "believe" once again? Not nearly as easy for many who've been watching all along to agree to be fucked once again.

up

0 users have voted.

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

who sees "DLC" and immediately think, "Ah Crap, I'm gonna get charged for stuff that should have been in the main release!"

For those who don't know, DLC also refers to "Downloadable Content" which is a scam that video game developers use to increase the amount of money you have to pay to get things that less than a decade ago would have been included with a basic release. The worst offenders are big AAA titles that you see advertised on tv, which sometimes even require you to Rebuy the game if you purchased a used copy, in order to ensure a piece of all sales.

Come to think of it, that does sound a bit like the DLC...

up

7 users have voted.

—

You can't expect to wield Supreme Military power, just cause some corporate tosser lobbed a contract at you!

If I'm on game forums or talking with game friends, DLC means as you had just pointed out.

When I come on these types of boards, then DLC refers to the think tank.

However, I do find myself whenever I see on political sites like this the term DLC, I do find myself thinking of game DLC whereas the vice versa isn't true. Just my own internal quirks I suppose

who sees "DLC" and immediately think, "Ah Crap, I'm gonna get charged for stuff that should have been in the main release!"

For those who don't know, DLC also refers to "Downloadable Content" which is a scam that video game developers use to increase the amount of money you have to pay to get things that less than a decade ago would have been included with a basic release. The worst offenders are big AAA titles that you see advertised on tv, which sometimes even require you to Rebuy the game if you purchased a used copy, in order to ensure a piece of all sales.

who sees "DLC" and immediately think, "Ah Crap, I'm gonna get charged for stuff that should have been in the main release!"

For those who don't know, DLC also refers to "Downloadable Content" which is a scam that video game developers use to increase the amount of money you have to pay to get things that less than a decade ago would have been included with a basic release. The worst offenders are big AAA titles that you see advertised on tv, which sometimes even require you to Rebuy the game if you purchased a used copy, in order to ensure a piece of all sales.

The Democratic Party no longer gives a damn about the millions that make up their base. They will not reach out to the young and independents. They do not even really care about winning anymore. They just care about the money. Our country is in danger and it is an elderly wild haired Independent who is leading the opposition.

The Democratic Party no longer gives a damn about the millions that make up their base. They will not reach out to the young and independents. They do not even really care about winning anymore. They just care about the money. Our country is in danger and it is an elderly wild haired Independent who is leading the opposition.