The goshin jutsu is not practised in an alive manner at all, though. It is a dead pattern containing some interesting techniques that are never applied to sparring in any way.

Yes, IF that's what they are doing. From above they are using incorrect terms to "combatify" the syllabus. I've seen the term goshinjutsu used in a number of places to advertise as "self defence" when it has had nothing to do with judo. If its just judo with a fancy (incorrect) term, then there may be something worthwhile. Personally, I'm not getting my hopes up, though. There's a lot to sift through and get distracted by - why not just go to another place that just does judo?

There's a lot to sift through and get distracted by - why not just go to another place that just does judo?

Good advice. As someone that has quite a bit of experience in all things "goshin", I'd suggest you cut through the BS and go straight to a legit kodokan judo school.

Training in an alive manner (i.e randori) will benefit you much more than Looping Roundhouse ---> High Block ---> Strike (w/ Kiai!) ---> Wrist Lock ever will.... take my word for it... those drills are not going to teach you to defend yourself.

- Philosophizing about the hakama
- Unnecessarily long Japanese names obviously made up by someone who doesn't speak Japanese (Mushin no Shin Aikijutsu Do)
- Using antiquated, esoteric names for common things (Kodokan instead of judo)
- Zen meditation led by someone who does not claim to have any formal Zen training
- Excessive rules about etiquette (bow to every black belt upon meeting them, no talking unless recognized by the instructor, no talking in the locker room except about training, never walk in front of a seated student of higher rank without bowing)
- Paying students expected to clean the dojo

What all this adds up to is a white American who is trying really, really hard to be a comic book samurai. I wouldn't touch this place.

If you want live grappling, train judo. If you want a modern martial art with traditional training methods and some weapons work, train aikido. If you want traditional Japanese martial arts, go find a koryu that actually comes from Japan. This guy is none of the above.

I could not find any reference to Judo on the "lineage chart" posted on the website. Or any reference to rank in Judo for Mr. Jones. But maybe I missed it.

As noted previously, the Goshin Jutsu of Kodokan Judo isn't a separate style or ryu, it was put together by a committee in the 50's as the "modern" self defense methods of Judo. Originally it was not considered a kata per se, but Kodokan Goshin Jutsu ho...

Anyway, not everyone will study the Kodokan Goshin Jutsu eventually (of those who do Judo of the Kodokan persuasion). Most never do, whether in Japan or not.

I would expect someone who claims any expertise in it to be fairly highly ranked in Judo, though. At least sandan (3rd dan), more like yondan or godan or higher.

To the OP, just ask Mr. Jones his Kodokan Judo rank (yes, adding Kodokan matters...other ryu have used the term "judo"), and who awarded it to him.

We can check the 3 major US judo organizations for his name. I do not have time to do so now, though. The Kodokan and/or All Japan Judo Federation would have him listed if he claims rank awarded in Japan.

Falling for Judo since 1980

"You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

"The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

"Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

I'm no expert on posting etiquette, but wasn't this moved to YMAS yesterday?

While I clearly disagree with the training methods at this school, is anyone accusing them of fraud? Do they deserve to be investigated?

Skepticism surrounding their training methods, I can see... but I think this may be suited for another forum.

At best, these guys are japanophiles, at worst, this is bullshido... but worthy of an investigation? Especially given the fact that the owner is retired Lt. Col. in the special forces... let's be careful whom we deem to be a "fraud".

If it turns out that he's claiming rank that he doesn't have, sure, this is the right place. But until someone has done their due diligence on his claims, I would think this should be in YMAS....

I'm viewing it in the investigations section right now...

I'd think if there are claims of certain rank in for instance, Judo, that would be worth checking/verify. I didn't see any claims of rank in Judo, and the others...it's all kind of strange, and looks to me like a mishmash of stuff he put together himself based on I would assume some sort of training he engaged in.

Falling for Judo since 1980

"You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

"The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

"Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

I think I may be all Japanophiled out from that school. All the bowing and Japanese banter back and forth last night just made me hungry and want to go order sushi. I came across this school across from sushi place. http://www.tkdicandoit.com/ I talked with a few people there and I think Im gonna go watch a class tonight. Ill let you know...