Actually, follow the money, again sad but true, A Gore flamed this controversy, and well meaning people bought into it and are still buying into it. You gotta love old Al he's so worried about climate change that he wants restrictions on every one .....who can't afford his "carbon tax" he has no problem flying his jet and burning fossil fuel cause he pays a carbon tax. Really co2 is not a huge problem plants live on it, our life is carbon based but certain politicians have driven this in to the auto industry, light bulb industry, (which benefits china), and most of all the big one, energy, simply put folks are getting elected and fortunes are being made on this, but we the tax payers are losing this us government involvement has made some scientists a fortune on grants, all those clinging to the 911 truth bull shit, should take a closer look at man made climate controversy, this is the scandal.

_________________A government Bureau is the closest thing to eternal life on earth that you will ever see

However, let's assume (and I am not convinced) that burning fossil fuels has no impact on the environment whatsoever. How do you deal with the finite nature of these resources. In other words, what do we do when they run out?

As somebody who seems pretty self-reliant to me, don't you think the reliance on resources for energy that are going to become increasingly expensive and binds us all to big energy concerns who don't want to lose profits is less estimable than an energy source that you install once for yourself and never pay bills for again i.e. solar?

One could also ask oneself why this source of power was not developed slightly earlier...

_________________"I have learned from my mistakes, and I am sure I can repeat them exactly."

However, let's assume (and I am not convinced) that burning fossil fuels has no impact on the environment whatsoever. How do you deal with the finite nature of these resources. In other words, what do we do when they run out?

As somebody who seems pretty self-reliant to me, don't you think the reliance on resources for energy that are going to become increasingly expensive and binds us all to big energy concerns who don't want to lose profits is less estimable than an energy source that you install once for yourself and never pay bills for again i.e. solar?

One could also ask oneself why this source of power was not developed slightly earlier...

I do not think that fossil fuels have no impact just not nearly as extreme as some want us to believe, as far as self reliant, that is the goal, in as much as the USA goes I believe the resources are estimated at hundreds of years even at an accelerated use, they are dragging their heels on natural gas, but thats another story, so why put the boot on the throat of the economy by restricting the exploration and use of known reserves of oil. Obviously solar and wind are great and as electrical storage technology goes forward perhaps that will be primary, but....for now it is not there , coupled with the need for rare earth metals found mostly in china and russia, my opinion is: #1 get the world economy rocking and rolling, then all country's can spend more of their money on batteries storage capacity. If I remember from tech school, a no loss conductor has to be discovered, so far it has, but only at absolute zero, -274degrees f.

_________________A government Bureau is the closest thing to eternal life on earth that you will ever see

I do not think that fossil fuels have no impact just not nearly as extreme as some want us to believe, as far as self reliant, that is the goal, in as much as the USA goes I believe the resources are estimated at hundreds of years even at an accelerated use, they are dragging their heels on natural gas, but thats another story, so why put the boot on the throat of the economy by restricting the exploration and use of known reserves of oil. Obviously solar and wind are great and as electrical storage technology goes forward perhaps that will be primary, but....for now it is not there , coupled with the need for rare earth metals found mostly in china and russia, my opinion is: #1 get the world economy rocking and rolling, then all country's can spend more of their money on batteries storage capacity. If I remember from tech school, a no loss conductor has to be discovered, so far it has, but only at absolute zero, -274degrees f.

I find the question about why solar power in particular "isn't there" the interesting one - and possibly the biggest scandal. Why aren't and weren't more governments interested in funding research into this energy source a bit earlier? Could it be that the oil, gas and coal producers had no vested interest in technological development in this area? Could it be that they lobbied accordingly? Don't we all not want a monthly bill for energy? What if we were self-sufficient?

Questions, questions, questions flooding into the mind of the concerned middle-aged person today...

_________________"I have learned from my mistakes, and I am sure I can repeat them exactly."

I've made numerous comments on this subject in the past. However, life's too short to waste time continuing to debate these issues with people who refuse to even consider the scientific evidence interpreted by the true experts, i.e. climate scientists. Many of these same people are quite happy to believe any ratbag conspiracy theory which comes along, but not true scientific opinion.

If 97% of doctors told you a skin lesion was melanoma and needed to be removed, how long would it take you to do something about it?

Scientists are not infallible gods. They sometimes tend to come to the conclusions their paymasters desire.

I've said a lot on this subject, too. Here's the bottom line...we are never going to stop emitting carbon, the carbon tax is what all the hype is about, and most polluters will just pay the tax as the normal cost of business.

So, we are fucked on this and only time will tell how long and how hard.

When the consensus is at or near 99.99%, like the number of climatologists who conclude that global warming is "man made", it's an obvious conclusion. Science has a better track record than politics, which is near 50/50 at any given time. Global warming deniers are just another form of wacko conspiracy theorists.

In reality, only .03% of the scientific community agree with this clown. By the way, I'm not trying to defend a position. I'm trying to call the bullshit and raise awareness against the forces of Darkness!

Like I said I could post a rebuttal but why all you have to do is search, the READ what others say, listen I have personally seen this argument swing back and forth many times remember it does not take a scientist to research the fact that real data with good technology has not been around that long, and all data 150 years, tree ring study and ice core are an interesting place to start.

_________________A government Bureau is the closest thing to eternal life on earth that you will ever see

Like I said I could post a rebuttal but why all you have to do is search, the READ what others say, listen I have personally seen this argument swing back and forth many times remember it does not take a scientist to research the fact that real data with good technology has not been around that long, and all data 150 years, tree ring study and ice core are an interesting place to start.

The human race has no fucking idea what it's doing. How many examples do we need?

Trying to figure shit out sometimes causes more destruction than leaving shit alone ever could. We seem so out of harmony with the rest of the living things on this planet.

Tangent:We all appreciate science. I really dig it. But scientists who like to make proclamations about, say, things that happened "2.3 billion years ago" are deluded or full of shit. A man who will live to be 80 years old talking about what happened 2.3 billion years ago is just plain silly. It's infuriating. It's simply more entertainment. It's not real. It's as bad as religion sometimes. And like religion there's large amounts of money being pissed away. I'm all for reducing suffering through science but a lot of scientists spend their lives dicking around.

The human race has no fucking idea what it's doing. How many examples do we need?

Trying to figure shit out sometimes causes more destruction than leaving shit alone ever could. We seem so out of harmony with the rest of the living things on this planet.

Tangent:We all appreciate science. I really dig it. But scientists who like to make proclamations about, say, things that happened "2.3 billion years ago" are deluded or full of shit. A man who will live to be 80 years old talking about what happened 2.3 billion years ago is just plain silly. It's infuriating. It's simply more entertainment. It's not real. It's as bad as religion sometimes. And like religion there's large amounts of money being pissed away. I'm all for reducing suffering through science but a lot of scientists spend their lives dicking around.

Actually when it comes to geology, what we know is on pretty solid ground...

Like I said I could post a rebuttal but why all you have to do is search, the READ what others say, listen I have personally seen this argument swing back and forth many times remember it does not take a scientist to research the fact that real data with good technology has not been around that long, and all data 150 years, tree ring study and ice core are an interesting place to start.

One of the best points yet on this subject...

Hey Plook, which point do you mean? The lack of punctuation in Bravo's post makes it hard for me to work out what you're referring to.

downer mydnyte wrote:

The human race has no fucking idea what it's doing. How many examples do we need?

I agree with that.

Plook wrote:

Actually when it comes to geology, what we know is on pretty solid ground...

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