Men's Basketball

Self, staff turn attention to July recruiting period

Kansas head coach Bill Self calls a play during the second half on Tuesday, Dec. 18, 2012 at Allen Fieldhouse.

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The newly revamped 12-day July college basketball recruiting period opens on Thursday.

Tournaments such as the Peach Jam in North Augusta, S.C., the AAU Super Showcase in Orlando, Fla., as well as adidas Super 64, Fab 48 and Las Vegas Classic in Glitter City, will keep Kansas University head coach Bill Self and assistants Jerrance Howard, Norm Roberts and Kurtis Townsend busy from Thursday to Sunday of the next three weeks.

“Obviously it’s going to be an intense three weeks,” KU coach Bill Self said Tuesday. “The rules have changed. You are not out that long (compared to 20 days in past Julys). It probably amps up the intensity during the period of time you are out. We have our core group of guys we are following and chasing. We need to have a good July and hopefully go into the school year with the best guys all thinking, ‘Kansas,’” Self added.

Self can’t, and won’t, comment on individual prospects in accordance with NCAA rules. However, it’s been widely reported that 10 of the top 20 high school seniors in the country, as rated by Rivals.com, are considering KU.

Rivals.com reports that Alexander, Johnson, Turner and Oubre are all planning on attending the Oct. 4 Late Night in the Phog.

“Everything,” Self said, asked what the Jayhawks are looking for on the recruiting trail. “We are recruiting everything because we don’t know who will stay and who won’t stay, how long guys will stay.

“Obviously we are going out with an open mind knowing we have to not think the worst (regarding early entries to 2014 NBA Draft), but prepare that we’ll have more than one scholarship which obviously is how many we have on paper with Tarik (Black, senior) being our only scholarship.”

Freshman Andrew Wiggins is expected to be the No. 1 pick in the 2014 NBA Draft. Players such as Wayne Selden, Joel Embiid and Perry Ellis have been mentioned as possible early entrees in 2014 or 2015.

Practice update: KU’s players have practiced two hours a week with the Jayhawk coaches during June and July in accordance with NCAA rules.

Self was asked if Wiggins, 6-7 from Toronto and the No. 1-rated prospect in the recruiting Class of 2013, has been “dominating the scrimmages.”

“I don’t know about the scrimmages,” Self said of daily pick-up games which coaches cannot attend. “The limited practice time we’ve had ... I think all our guys are working hard. They are all getting better. They are all learning. He is one of those guys getting better, learning, getting in shape. I think all of our freshmen (Wiggins plus Joel Embiid, Brannen Greene, Conner Frankamp, Frank Mason and Wayne Selden) have had days they have been as impressive as anybody in the gym. I don’t want to say he’s dominating. That’d be an absolute lie,” Self added.

The good news is the freshmen appear to be as talented as advertised. Self said, “Yes, he can. He’s good,” when asked if Georgia off-guard Greene could shoot from deep. He stated, ‘Yes. Unreal,’” when asked if Wichita combo guard Frankamp could shoot the trey with accuracy. He added, “Yes. He can do a lot of things,” when asked if Cameroon center Embiid had good hands. He added that when he “gets it,” Embiid could be quite a prospect. He’s only played organized basketball the past two years.

“The whole thing is ... are they great? No,” Self said of the newcomers. “They’ve all had days they were as good as anybody in the gym, all of them. Wiggins is talented, though. That is one talented cat.”

Self was asked which of the young guys have stood out the most.

“We’re all young,” he said of his team. “To me, I’d say Perry (Ellis, sophomore forward) and Jamari (Traylor, soph forward) have been as good as anybody. I think our young guys have all been about the same, to be honest with you. I think they’ve all shown flashes of really being impactful.”

Sophomore Andrew White III has recovered from a knee sprain that slowed him in early June. “Andrew is back 100 percent and looking good,” Self said.

Of the practice time, he added: “It’s just two hours a week, mainly individual improvement. It’s not like we’ve done much at all.”

Our team is incredibly scary. The rest of the Big 12 is seriously screwed, even OK St is screwed. We ain't got time for that! Our first 3 or 4 off the bench would start on every other big 12 team. This is insane. This is insane. This is insane. Yes, let the darkness flow through you.

Insane indeed. You're right that our first 3 or 4 off the bench would start on every other Big XII team. But that's means we're going to have some disappointed guys when it comes to playing time and points. Bill rarely plays more than 8 deep. I hope the odd-men out keep a positive attitude.

Its almost a given that Okie State will be neck and neck with us this season. It'll be just a matter of who wants it more, us or them. Experience might also be a factor because KU will be extremely young. Naadir is our only guy with meaningful minutes from last year.

ya..once again, we'll play the crappy over rated Big 12 schedule..waltz our way through it only to stumble to a mid major or some underrated team in the tourney because our team did not get challenged during the season. and then the people on this board will want to fire self and say how our draft class wasn't really that good.

I'll be on record to say that we won't stumble to an underrated team. How far of a run the NCAAs would satisfy you? If this teams gels, no one will want them in their bracket. We're very big, very athletic, full of shooters and ballhandlers, and Self will get them playing the Self way after bootcamp.

Do any other teams in the country have 3 black assistants? Serious question. I'm not saying this in a derogatory or racist way, so please don't remove it. I just think it's interesting and I wonder if it has any effect on recruiting. Maybe it's easier for a young prospect to connect with a black coach. I know Coach Howard is considered to be a top notch recruiter. Obviously it isn't only because he's black, but I've gotta think it plays in somewhat.

Chances of this comment staying up are slim given the track record of censorship on here. But, again, I'm not saying anything derogatory. I actually think 3 black assistants is extremely noteworthy. And maybe it has an effect on recruiting. Maybe not.

I've discussed, with a college coach friend, the fact that there is an unspoken rule that if you want to recruit African-American players, you better have at least one African-American assistant. It's only natural that a kid is going to be more comfortable around someone who more likely comes from a similar background. Having three minority coaches just shows that Coach Self is color blind and genuinely embraces diversity, and is not one of those guys just making a token hire.

I would say it probably helps, but isn't necessary. You look at Dooley and think there is no way he could relate to an 18 year old African American, but he seemed to be very good at it. I think geography is just as important because you know the area you are recruiting and the people is just as important. I agree with Jhox that Self gets a good mix of assistants to cover both the diversity and the geography requirements.

This is easily your most insightful post about the game and life ever, and you've made a number of indispensable contributions to towards enlightening this online community about playing and coaching the game.

But I am not just praising you for what it offers board rats regarding their insight about basketball; this generalizes to the work place, to school, to clubs, to online communities, to all aspects of social interaction in USA, and probably to our interactions with persons from other countries.

Obsolete stereo types are blinders that prevent us from being effective in all activities of life.

I just got done watching Bill Gates list of favorite TED TALKS videos on YouTube. Everyone in the world should watch all of the, but for gosh sakes PLEASE watch the first one. It is by a very idiosyncratic data miner from Scandinavia who studies regional and global trends in things like family size, life expectancy and so on. In this particular talk he shows how the majority of students today (and probably the majority of adults today) define the world in terms of obsolete notions from the 1970s regarding First and Third Worlds, and the life expectancy and family size characteristics of both regions.

The students he talked to said First and Third Worlds meant the following to them.

First World = long life expectancy and small families.

Third World = short life expectancy and large families.

The speaker shows with marvelously accessible and dynamic graphics how this was largely the case in 1970. But then he directs the software to show the evolution in these relationships between 1970 and the mid 2000s. It was astounding to watch. By the mid 2000s, much, if not most, of the supposed Third World now has more or less the same life expectancy and family size as the First World!!!!! Specifically, citizens of Vietnam and citizens of USA have almost the same life expectancies and the same family sizes!!

Now, I realize, this startling insight may only be startling to me, but I have a hunch that it will surprise many, many Americans.

When one views other persons through obsolete lenses, regardless of one's good, or bad, intentions, it makes it very difficult to interact with them effectively in any regard.

Stupidity in the form of obsolete stereotypes about other cultures and other individuals remains one of humanities greatest enemies to both cooperative and competitive interaction.

Your marvelous post, slayr, which perhaps seems mastering the obvious to you, is a stunning example of how typical it is for stereotypes to grow obsolete; that an enlightened person must constantly regrind his prescriptions, if he/she wants to make positive contributions in anything.

While I applaud your basic point that we should avoid stereotyping, I fear that you are trivializing the gross health inequities that still very much exist on this planet by citing bad information. Simply put, the developing world (a term which has replaced the outdated pejorative "third world") does not have "more or less the same life expectancy and family size" as the developed world.

According to the WTO, the average life expectancy for children born in 2010 in the world's highest-income countries is 80 compared to 60 in the lowest-income countries. In many developing countries it is under 50. While your information for Vietnam is partially correct (it still lags behind the U.S. in life expectancy), it does not support your gross overgeneralization.

The reason I make this point is that it is unjust to pretend that these severe inequities are merely "supposed" and no longer exist. We should be telling our students the truth about the world and inspiring them to make a difference in places where people are, clearly, less fortunate.

I very much like to include the various points of view based on the parsing of these sorts of data sets.

And my point about agenda recalibration applies not only to the TED talks folks, but also, and to at least equivalent extent, the WHO folks. If you follow the monies and private oligarchies that hold sway among the TED Talks folks and those that have initiated, backed and held sway over WHO folks I would suspect that they both maybe thought of as frequently competing/sometimes cooperating axes of private oligarchy. Hence, the varied parsing of data sets.

Recalibrated for the agendas of these two axes of private oligarchy apparently involved, I would guess that a quite probably realistic description of the issue would emerge that would fit neither the TED talks numbers, nor the WHO numbers with high accuracy and precision.

Regarding relative toughness of life in "advancing" countries and say, USA, you have to start by asking yourself what can you believe about the USA numbers after a decade of guns and butter warfare and a massive economic collapse have triggered so much CYA re-indexing here in the States.

The USA is very tough to understand and accurately describe using "accepted" statistics from "legitimate" sources. Unemployment has been in the low 20% range by pre Reagan era indexing since the massive economic collapse that would be categorized as a Great Depression were pre Reagan era indexing to be used. But instead, unemployment has been said to have reached 12% and the depression has been recalibrated into a recession.

But it is not just that USA's problems are understated. USA's successes are massively understated, too. For instance, trade deficit numbers are massively overstated, because trade accounting massively understates high technology services and so magnifies the effect of outsourcing of manufacturing industries.

Also, people are trapped in old look of poverty in USA. USA poverty is still thought of largely as urban poverty and some rural poverty. We think we know what that looks like. Tenements. The unemployed gathered around trash barrels with fires inside them during winter with groups of old and young men shucking and jiving. But in fact poverty moved to the suburbs, where it is much, much harder to recognize.

My point here is that when you try to compare USA to say Vietnam, USA's poverty no longer looks quite as poor as it used to look, but it is probably even poorer in many respects. Further, it is a big mistake to say America has gotten poorer across the board, because certain economic sectors and classes have flourished to unprecedented levels, too.

My reading of the different stats over the years indicates to me that America has simultaneously risen and declined and so become more of a banana republic of extremes, while developing countries with pre-existing banana republic extremes have ascended to banana republic asymmetries rather closer to our own.

Lastly, saying Vietnam has the same family sizes and life expectancies as USA means only that and I don't think for a second that the TED talks videos I have watched would lead one to believe that quality of life has kept up in advancing countries with the movement of these two statistics, so you are kind of making a straw argument about misleading persons about how bad things are in advancing countries.

The truth is that USA exemplifies exactly how a country can have small families and long life expectancies and still reek with poverty. And if this phenomenon occurs in USA, inspite of its more robust courts and civil rights, and longer legacy of high productivity firm activity, then it almost necessarily implies that the prior 50 year convergence of life expectancy and family size between USA and, say, Vietnam, or China, implies that there is going to be a rich getting richerand a poor getting poorer phenomenon in the advancing countries, IF one can only get a handle on agenda bias in the statistics in order to lay it bare.

I don't believe any education can occur without being agenda driven. I do ask for some effort and objectivity along with the agenda. And I would prefer that they put their agenda out front. But if they don't, I believe most persons can see the underlying agendas if they try even a wee bit.

The whole reason for a college education, beyond the hack professional school certificates universities are pedalling, is to teach human beings to be able to glean knowledge from the jaws of any agenda, even from outright propaganda.

TED talks is good stuff when you adjust for its agenda.

Notice: there is not a TED Talks video on focused on monopolistic economics, nor is there one that explores the effects of Bill Gates efforts to monopolize and maintain a monopoly on the desktop. Certainly, nothing could do much greater educational service than a video exploring costs and benefits of digital monopolies (and oligopolies) in the information age. For example, do we want a desktop monopoly as part of Africa's new infrastructure? Do we want one company to dominate server softwares being imbedded into the medical and education and public utilities emerging in Africa right now? I'm not sure. I would like to see a TED talks video about this. Alas, I kind of doubt we will see such a video from TED Talks, do you? :-)

This might sound a bit blasphemous but I just don't want to turn into one of those teams with all the talent that never gels. Look at last years Kentucky and/or Lakers teams. All the talent in the world doesn't necessarily equal a Big 12 championship and easy sailing through the big dance. Here's to chemistry. Here's to Self. Here's to whomever becomes this years Releford/KYoung glue guys. Here's to hoping that all this talent gels.

Bill Self teams gel because he works them so hard before the season begins. He won't say that he's tougher on his kids than Calipari, but he is, and that one fact to me propelled us in our comeback against Memphis.

Interesting how Self plays down all the freshman in this article. Trying to temper the expectations and lower the hype? I know they're just freshman, but these are some REALLY GOOD freshman and I think they will play up to the hype and more mature than freshman. But if not....they are just freshman.

When was the last time a freshman came in and made an impact? We've had several high profile freshman come in and they've been solid role players, but never the leader of the team we're expecting these freshman to be. With such a young team the young players might feel more comfortable stepping up than they have in the past and be everything that's hoped, but I imagine Coach Self is trying to take some of the pressure off them with his statements.

You mean besides last year's leading scorer, who was a freshman? Or Xavier Henry, who was a key contributor in his one year? Or the Morris Twins and Taylor who all contributed as freshmen?

Stop getting worried about what CLASS people are in, people. KU hasn't NEEDED freshmen to contribute much, so they did not receive the reps and the practice time necessary to be ready to be prime timers right out of the gate. This year's group of freshmen will get all the reps and all the minutes needed to be ready when the lights come on.

KU has had seniors and juniors making stupid mental mistakes in the past so lets not pretend that what CLASS you are determines your success. If players prepare and are focused, they will be able to do what is asked of them. Also, Coach Self and his staff are skilled enough coaches to know what can and cannot be asked of their players based on their readiness and abilities.

RELAX, people. Sit back and enjoy the show. Sometimes young talent plays to their age level and sometimes they play to their talent level. As I mentioned, sometimes more experienced players play like idiot freshmen sometimes, too, so simply being a senior doesn't guarantee that a player won't occasionally make stupid freshman mistakes. (Cue Tyshawn Taylor and Elijah Johnson lowlight reels...)

As for a team "gelling" this doesn't take long with the right group of players. Half these guys have played on AAU and all star teams together. They will come together quickly once the full bore practices start. I cannot remember a KU team under Bill Self that had Bill Self's recruits on it that DIDN'T look gelled as a unit by the end of the year.

First, thanks Gary for keeping us going this summer.
Next, correct me if Im wrong fellas but CS does this every summer. He will skirt the boundaries of saying specific things about his team so early. Most likely to temper the rookies egos but also because he cant watch the pickup games. If they dont play 5 on 5 in practice, its hard to tell.
That being said, we all know defenses will be designed to stop Wiggins from day one in late October. CS's words above give me just a glimmer into what might be a stellar season for our young team. I'll be money on CS having the guys ready to play as a team and gelling all their talent together. I dont doubt this at all. The fact that we havent had a class this talented since CS has been here is even more exciting. However, we must remember that 9 of 10 times, experienced talent wins tournaments and rings. We can all hope for a ring this year with Wiggins leading the way, but none of us should be disappointed if it doesnt happen.
Personally I cant wait to see a defense try to double and triple team Wigs. That kid can run and pass as well as anyone we have had here, from what Ive seen. That happens and he dishes to any one of our 4 other guys. If the opposing team tries to full court press with Naa, Selden and Wigs out there? His lightning fast first step and his spin move are nearly unguardable. October/November just cant get here soon enough.

I don't think that Bill Self has to watch his team in 5 on 5 drills to know who the top few players are. Though I get what you mean when you say that. For example: Conner may be lights out in individual drills, but in 5 on 5 he may be average because a long, athletic defender may be able to neutralize his effectiveness.

Bill just doesn't play the media's game this time of year because he doesn't want to affect his players egos (or effort levels) and he doesnt want to give misinformation based on what he thinks he knows without having seen the proof on the court.

I agree that Self tempers expectations. Also, it is not surprising that the 2 players he mentioned as standing out are (relatively) experienced guys. That is his style and also reflects his expectations. No doubt, though, some of these guys aren't going to get the playing time they, and some fans, think they deserve.

Anybody else think this year's team could be the best perimeter shooting team in Self's tenure? Space the floor, whip the ball around the perimeter, drive 'n dish---I want to believe that, as a team, we can be spectacular shooting the ball from outside. And, with so many players who have that shooting skill, when one is off, another can be on. Not to abandon the high/low at all, but simply to be blessed that deeply from outside. Comments??

The acquisition of Tarik Black should do much to keep perimeter defenders honest. And Self has two very serviceable big men in Lucas and Embiid to give Tarik breathers. With so many terrific outside shooters, Black's size and experience lends bigtime help to Wiggins' spin move and Selden's capacity to slash. Self has a plethora of ways to run his offense. On a night when White or Greene or Frankamp finds lotsa daylight with a hot hand, O My!

We definitely seem to have quite the stable of outside shooters. I'm not sold on Selden and Wiggins as three point threats yet, and I don't consider Tharpe as much of a marksman at this point either.

The guys who do have the reputation of being excellent outside shooters are White, Greene, and Frankamp, but at least one of these guys is likely headed for marginal minutes at best this season (depending on Mason's ability to back up Tharpe, or depending on Wiggins and Selden's ability to bring the ball up the court and initiate the offense while Tharpe rests).

That said... if Tharpe's percentages are up from last year, and if Wiggins or Selden are better than average three point shooters then this team very likely will be one of Self's best beyond the arc. Especially if Self is able to integrate White, Greene, and Frankamp as rotation players. Also, Perry Ellis is a guy who very well could extend his range in the off-season and occasionally could be used to stretch the floor if needed.

Absolutely! We are stacked with outside shooting threats this year. How many of them will get meaningful minutes to contribute that skill remains to be seen. But yah, we will be a high low team like usual with killer shooters on the wing. I cant wait.

I posted Ellis lifting the same weight. Speaking of Traylor, here is a guy who has been here 2-1/2 years playing on the court and in practice. Self might be telling the truth about Mari.
http://www.youtube.com/v/LKjCkwsDgPI

Sorry ralst- I probably have mixed up some of HEM's Traylor analysis with yours. My apologies if so! If Traylor does make a big leap this summer, It certainly will complicate Self's rotations strategy for bigs- cheers.

Please go the AFH, hook up a streaming video camera, put it on a website and charge $2 to view each practice (giving me a free password for giving you the idea of course)

Then we will all know if this is coach talk or if this team has a long way to go to gel. I really think I would rather watch a practice then some of the early season games. We have never had this much depth, I am trying to lower my expectations, but am having issues when I think of our potential. But like posters above have said- we dont need 8 guys to put up 15+ a game as their goal, we need glue guys and specialist. I want a to see who our lock down defender is going to be. RCJH

How about knock out a couple of championships! Since I've been a KU student (1986) we've had 8 FF's, 'only' 2 championships. It's getting to the point that FF's are not quite enough for me. Wichita St. will live on last years' memories for a couple of decades. We need championships!
I totally agree on your analysis of the next few years. Before Wiggins I was saying watch out for the 2014-2015 team. It has the potential to be just an incredible team.

Ah ha...you didn't read my post carefully, Wissox. LOL! I say, we get to some Final 4's and then let whatever happens happens. I agree, I want some Championships and you only get so many "Opportunities" so I said, let's get to some Final 4's and see what happens.

Bill Self and Kansas' time is "Now" and over the next 8 years IMO. I want Kansas to do something special like Duke did in the late 80's and early 90's. I want Kansas to do something Izzo did at Mich State and go to 6 Final 4's in 12 years.

Reporters generally annoy me. Someone asking if Wiggins is "dominating the scrimmages" is just about the stupidest question there is. Every year there's practice all americans who we've never heard of because they freeze up when the bright lights are turned on. Meanwhile the real All Americans keep working, probably not really trying to dominate a scrimmage.

As for the recruits mentioned, I'll take a bench full of those players who won't jump to the NBA after a year over one or two of them that we'd probably lose after a years service. Generally you win championships with players who stay on campus for more than one or two years, although ironically the two teams that I can think of that rode OAD's to the championship both did it to KU, Carmelo in 03 and Davis, Kidd-Gilchrist, and a sophomore sharpshooter named Doron Lamb.

One recruit mentioned is from Euless, Texas. Now I know Texans are arrogant, but even their town names reflect it!

Um....Malik Pope is like as high as 14th in Rankings I've seen - akin to Selden's ranking last year....he's probably a 2AD.

I'm in agreement on Perkins.

Would love to have him for 3 years - 1st one backing Tharpe and then our starting PG for '15/'16 & "16/'17.

I could see some value in a 40's - 80's SG/SF type like a Jared Terrell (at Wiggins's school this coming year - like 6'-5, 225) or Jalen Lindsay as they could potentially get run at the "3" after Selden & White III are no longer around. Best recruits were after in '15 are combo. G M. Newman, PF Rabb, & C S. Zimmerman. - would LOVE to get all three & have that next "monster" class in the '15 Class.

TV Update: Reports are out that Apple is negotiating with Time Warner to partner as part of a new Apple TV offering. This could mean that Time Warner content could be potentially available nationwide.

Perhaps this was part of Dr. Z's conversations when negotiating the recent 3rd-tier rights deals? Putting KU in the Apple TV universe would be a massive broad stroke in getting the KU brand out to the masses and affiliating with the world's coolest company.

Of course, this is all speculation right now, but the rumor mill on Apple has been pretty reliable in recent years in terms of predicting new offerings.

I don't think you are over-complicating the process at all. I have always thought that it must be very complicated and tough to manage for the reasons you mentioned. Clearly, some of the top players wait until the spring, when it is clear who has delcared, to commit.

Recruiting must be more complex today compared to when freshmen couldn't play and no one left early. My freshman year, our freshman team had Neil Mask at 6'6" as our tallest player. He basically played a strong forward. That is because the year before Ted had signed Dave Robisch and Roger Brown and didn't anticipate a need for a center for the next three years. I'll never forget when we played our freshman game with K-State and we started Aubrey Nash at center against their 6'10" player. They didn't know what to do and Aubrey dominated. Bud Stallworth, Bob Kivisto and Tim Peterson were also on that team. The best freshman team I ever saw, however, was two years later. We had Randy Canfield, a 3-time all-state player from Wichita SE. at 6'll", Tom Kivisto (a consensus 3-time all Big 8 guard), a smooth shooting 6'5 wing from Washington, D.C (who looked like he was 28 years old, simply toyed with the JCs and other freshmen teams in the Big 8) and Leonard Gray who was a powerful 6'8" and could handle the ball like a guard. House never showed up his sophomore year and Gray transferred to Long Beach State, but I often wondered how great that team might have been.

Kingfisher...TWC's content will still only allowe to be locked to the specific regions it currently operates in.

Question:
When will Self pull a Brad Stevens? After his son graduates I presume.

Comment:
Can't wait to see Lucas! Is this kid going to be huge for us and will he play more mins than Joel? Also I often forget that we have Traylor returning. That dude is diesel...hoping this year he puts a little polish on his skills.

I also think Connor is going to be clutch and dig us out of some holes with that stroke of his...AND in turn have a game winner or two. He will be our secret weapon when everyone is triple teaming Wiggy.

Well, you can rationalize that in this instance, "Charity case" can mean how he grew up and what he had to go through to get where he is today. KU basketball is giving him every chance possible to succeed in his life. The same can be said about Ben Mac and T Rob.

Given that we will have 2 or more scholarships available next year, how can Self offer scholarships to 6+ people? I know not all of them will accept- but it's terrible PR to renege on a scholarship offer (I dont think that would ever happen with Self/KU like it did to what, UCLA I think?). KU's recruiting is obviously on the right track right now and we are on most everybody's list. So here's a hypothetical question because I'm not sure what we're better off with in the recruiting game. What happens in the scenario that we have an extra scholarship this year to offer the rivals #100 player who won't start until junior year versus saving the scholarship until next year when we could offer it to a McD's AA? I'd say this is a great problem to have, but is the MO to always fill your scholarships with at least 3-4 star players no matter what?