Tuesday, September 16, 2008

My publishers pointed me to this item on the Elephant magazine website. This matter is such ancient history to me that I'd pretty well forgotten about it. It has its origins in this article I wrote for Suicide Girls criticizing Genpo Roshi's Big Mind™ process, which is a very dangerous mind-control game masquerading as a gateway drug to Zen practice. Of course there are a vast number of spiritual scams out there and I don't usually point any of them out specifically. But since Genpo claims his process is related with Soto style Zen practice I wanted to distance myself from it as much as possible.

Anyway, that video of Ken Wilber licking Genpo's privates up there on that site I linked to above made me puke so hard I had to respond. Here is a video I made for that purpose. Enjoy!

Special thanks to John Graves for the music, Leilani Monfort for the superb camera work and, of course, Sock Monkey for a stellar performance.

89 comments:

Interesting video links, thanks! On the elephantjournal link with Genpo Roshi's videos I found it interesting that somebody attacked Brad based on his "title" or lack thereof. All things held equal, it seems pretty bizarre to see a 'zen' guy attacking another because he feels that their title isn't good enough.

If Brad thinks he’s such hot shit, maybe he should come for a visit and challenge Genpo Roshi to a proper debate and see where he stands. I’d be happy to film this session and put it out there for all the world to see and judge for themselves. I doubt if he will, he’s already refused to answer our invitations, but the offer still stands. I’m afraid though, that he prefers to lob bombs from a distance, trying to gain attention for himself by trashing others. Is that your Zen, Brad? I think it breaks one of the precepts you are so proud of taking as a monk.

Daimler Benz in association with Money From Everywhere and Everywhen proudly announce sponsorship of Master Brad Warner and Not Zen Master Michael Bardan in a Round-Z-Wxrld trip to convert everybody to Zen.

Like the Elders of Fukken L8R Day Saint:Z, they attack Amerika from every Corner of the N direction:z and put an end to poverty (haha, theirs, not yours, beyotch!-) and then like make movies ever after.

Jay Leno will announce at that show that he is moving to WB network and will proceed to kick ass for many aeon:z to follow as long as Brad and Michael become Chief Writers on Staff with driving privilege to All Vehicles Leno (zTM).

Anyway, yeah.

Madonna will sing the theme song for the weekly update of Brad and Michael's Travel in Circle Forever Without meeting each other in coming and going, like the idiots they both are.

Then THIS which blew my fukken mind away: KRAMER from Seinfeld OMG OMG will be like their CADDY.

Whenever they stop to play golf with Tiger Wood:Z on tour (neither of them play, but anyway), whenever they do, Kramer will be CADDY.

While I haven't met either Brad nor Genpo or seen / hear them speak live, one thing to consider with public debates is that often the party with more skill or experience as a public speaker / group agitator will appear as a winner simply because they can form explanations and word games that sound reasonable at first but don't really hold when thought about. It's the same thing with many scientist vs creationist debates where the scientist seems to be left wordless - simply because they are not used to that kind of stuff while the other party is.

So I don't think a public debate - or one filmed and posted in the intertubes - would do much good for this dispute, or prove anything.

while i totally disagreen with brads paranoid dramaturgy, i find the "we invite you, to tape you and expose you" quite offensive. i understand integrallies do make judgements, but this sounds more like shooting sparrows with cannons, which feels more macho than integral.

i also think, that most sspiritually inclined people can think on their own, and those who dont (some naive ISFJ moms etc), dont like to listen to blogging punks, which makes brad a sparrow in my view.

hi, brad, nice to see you, i had some welcom physiognomical insights while watching the video. peace & namaste.

A friend of mine does the Big Mind practice and is really into it. Brad, why do you think it's doo-doo? My buddy is not going to listen to me if I tell him that & point him to the monkey movie... funny as it is.

This site should have a warning that it's for children.This has become a cesspool of projection. Wake the FUCK up. You fool. Just because you empty your mind doesn't give one permission to be a total fucking idiota,Igorantia, blockhead, bonehead, cretin, dimwit, dope, dork, dullard, dunce, fathead, fool, imbecile, jerk, moron, nitwit, simpleton, stupid, twit, imbecile, jackass, mooncalf, moron, nincompoop, a ninny nitwit, simpleton.

Gorgeously ludicrous. The music really does put me immediately into a "Zen" state of mind. I wonder if the composer happens to have other material for sale....like....say...a CD called....umm .....maybe...."Awake at the Funeral" which may be purchased by visiting a website called....hmmm....I wonder....how about....www.deep6holidaymusic.com

Brad has the emotional maturity of a 12-year old. He is dogmatic, conservative, egotistical and narrow-minded with it.

By the way, you need to extract yourself from between his butt-cheeks."

Justin, Exactly what makes you think you are any different from Brad or me or anyone else for that matter? Everything you have said about Brad also applies to you as is apparent from your little diatribe. It really isn't a matter of Brad on one extreme and you and your ideals on the other. You do not like Brad. I not not know Brad. We read him differently.

I don't think you can speak for 'we'. I'm telling you how I personally read him.

Someone who acts like Brad does in that video is not interested in the truth of the matter, only about appearing to 'win' or 'score points' for himself, and the interpretation of Zen that he's emotionally attached to. He's probably intimidated by a public debate and is hiding it behind mockery. If he's going to make disparaging public comments about someone he should have the balls to back it up rather than hiding behind a puppet.

This is the sort of behaviour that you see in kids. You can project great wisdom into it if you like - I can't help you.

i love the cover to Sit Down and Shut Up. i love everything about it really, but especially the cover.

the cover to hardcore zen not so much. nothing bad about it, but from knowing nothing about you and just wanting a book on zen for a casual read, it seems to suggest (as does the title) that within lies extra powerful content. hardcore being extra, supra, more than more involved, almost like a subculture to itself. something that once reading the book seemed perhaps kinda counter-zen. an illusion of superiority?

sit down and shut up really appealed to me though. kind of ridiculous no? i love it. anyway, you should do more interviews like this. i found this very informative. genpo, you're awesome keep it up, you're the yin to brad's yang

I don't think you can speak for 'we'. I'm telling you how I personally read him.

Someone who acts like Brad does in that video is not interested in the truth of the matter, only about appearing to 'win' or 'score points' for himself, and the interpretation of Zen that he's emotionally attached to. He's probably intimidated by a public debate and is hiding it behind mockery. If he's going to make disparaging public comments about someone he should have the balls to back it up rather than hiding behind a puppet.

This is the sort of behaviour that you see in kids. You can project great wisdom into it if you like - I can't help you.

"Someone who acts like Brad does in that video is not interested in the truth of the matter, only about appearing to 'win' or 'score points' for himself."

This is you describing yourself. subconsciously?

"the interpretation of Zen that he's emotionally attached to."

Again, You a describing yourself.

"He's probably intimidated by a public debate and is hiding it behind mockery."

You again..

"If he's going to make disparaging public comments about someone he should have the balls to back it up."

Everyone knows what Brad looks like, where he lives, how to contact him. You are the craven accuser.

"By the way, you need to extract yourself from between his butt-cheeks."

This is as vulgar and inaccurate as anything Brad has written. But because you think you have everyone's motivations pegged so well, you allow this for yourself and scream bloody murder if Brad goes there. That is Funny.

"I don't think you can speak for 'we'."

You seem to think you are the only person entitled to do that. There is a word for someone like you who pretends to have virtues and high morals that he doesn't really possess. You are every bit as much of a hypocrite as Brad is dear.

while i am against the direct finger pointing going on, i think it important to vocalize disagreement. The big mind website is full of nice retreats that have pictures of wonderful houses you can sleep in alone or shared. Where you are surrounded by people who look like they talk in that very specific "i've been meditating all my life and i'm so serene" tone. The prices are well over $150 for many of these retreats. While it is not what i would look for in buddhist teaching i am sure someone who wants a nice spa-like getaway will be happy with this. My personal issue is with spiritual leaders (no matter what religion) that try to gather loads from those who are poor and looking for some relief from their situation. I hope that is not going on there.

I just watched the Brad, Genpo and wilbur videos. Big Mind reminded me of the Big Foot phenom. Genpo and Wilbur are boring psychos just trying to make a living. Brad is boring but he's not a psycho. The sock monkey is a funny guy.

Just sit and make the effort. When the shit comes only your try, don't know mind can save you. Your true self requires maintenance.

The mentally ill and the poor - teetering on the social edge - they will be hurt by this economic downturn.

The average age of a homeless person in Massachusetts is 8 years old. That's out of all homeless people.

How many traumatized soldiers will come back to our communities from the hell in the middle east?

Fuck your sock puppet games! Go teach meditation to those who are suffering and who are willing to listen. Do it for free. Eat a little less. Tell yourself you'll 'get a good book out of it' and recoup the loss if you need to.

You can help by helping way more than you can help by supposedly "preventing harm" by insulting other people.

Seriously??It's funny, i'll look at both sides with humor, all sides are the same right???Laughter is is part of joy for me, everything is ok, and it's ok for people to think differently, even you who is reading this..

The video was cute, but suffers from the obvious flaw that Brad quite literally puts words in Genpo's mouth.

Which is what we all do, really, when we set ourselves in opposition to something--we project onto whatever we're fighting a story that justifies our position, and respond to that, rather than actually listening to or responding to the other person.

I suspect Brad and Genpo are both sincere and well-intentioned. (Not that good intentions are enough to assure that the final product is good, of course.) One is wary of the abuses of spirituality in ways that can harm the vulnerable, while the other wants to help people accomplish what he believes is an important goal in spiritual practice. I believe that both have found something of value in their engagement in Zen and want to share it with others.

I do not believe that Genpo is a scheming, moustache-twirling villain, solely motivated by a desire to scam people out of their money. Nor do I believe that Brad's motivation in criticizing Genpo and Big Mind is solely to assuage his ego or draw attention to himself. I suspect there is some validity to the Big Mind process, but I believe Brad's criticisms are also valid.

Ken Wilber is another story, however. Any time I watch him speak, I know at some point, I'm going to start laughing in mirth and disbelief. The guy is bullshit personified. Genpo's continuing association with him makes me more suspicious of him than anything else about the Big Mind process or its marketing.

Wilber is the ultimate purveyor of spiritual materialism. All of his "systems" and "levels" and "stages" and "modes" project a sense of exactly what sincere effort in spiritual practice dispels: the belief that we can create and maintain a dependable, unchanging state or position. That we are, or can become, superior to others in some way that goes beyond the temporal and relational, that we can cultivate some lasting essence of enlightenment, wisdom, or perfection. Real, engaged spiritual practice slowly wears away at such hopes and illusions.

I'm still young, but I've practiced and experienced enough that I have gotten this point. Just a few short years ago, I was swayed by all of the remarkable spiritual systems people offered. I believed there was some way to "climb the mountain" and look down at everyone else from the peak. But now I know that yes, you can climb that mountain, but there really is no mountain. You can apply a system to your life but you're just making it up as you go along. It only succeeds to the extent that other people are willing to go along with you in creating that world you're creating. The real gift of practice is the ability to see this and to then be able to let go of all of the unnecessary striving that comes with not understanding this point.

I believe that the manifestations of a deepening spiritual maturity are humility (not false humility), an openness to the diversity of human experience without a need to control or manage it or make it into something different, and a greater emphasis on connecting with people than proving a point. I think that spiritual practice (mind you, I hate that word "spiritual," but I lack a better term) reduces the need to prove a point.

So why is it then that the majority of spiritual teachers one encounters seem driven by a need to prove a point? The whole religious or spiritual teaching industry is a joke in which the punchline is that it is sustained by the very things which it claims to sell a solution to. Once you've seen enough of this, how can you buy it any more?

I think of all mentioned, Brad is the least entangled in this game. He's still got points to prove but he can laugh at himself and doesn't project that sort of "woo woo" quality you get with folks like Wilber.

The bottom line is that a true engagement on the spiritual path will correct all the mistakes it takes to sustain oneself on the path at first. If you're into all that weird stuff about levels and enlightenment and crystals and chakras, but yet are motivated by a sincere desire to realize truth, you will ultimately have no choice but to let it all go as you will see that there is nothing to any of that. If Big Mind "harms" anyone, they are people who would have found their way to a similar delusion regardless, and who will ultimately find their way out if they seek truth.

Brad, I appreciate the way you use contemporary American vernacular to guide people towards practice. Thanks for helping people outside the usual white, upper middle class "buddhist" target demographic relate to the dharma.

Genpo and Wilber (and Cohen, though I digress) are hucksters. There are no shortcuts for the rich.

As much as I hate a cliche phrase, it applies here: thank you for keepin' it real.

Brad, I can well understand your dislike of Big Mind since it doesn't look much like the zen your teacher taught you, but some of the criticisms that you make of it would be answered if you saw Genpo in person. That is not to say that you are not correct and that it is not a bad thing overall or that you should not criticise it - I don't really know, just that some of the things you say about it really do come from ignorance and assumption. Nobody in these responses seems to have set these out without resorting to abuse of you or unquestioning defence of the whole Big Mind project so I thought I would. I am not suggesting that you stop your criticism, just that on the following points you are actually wrong and should refocus your argument. I cannot understand why you don't go and see Genpo at his invitation - that does detract from your position and make it look as though you are just trying to bring attention to yourself even if you are not, but anyway.

1. Genpo promises enlightenment in a weekend and does not suggest that 30 years of practice are necessary.

This is simply not true. Genpo states at every session that what Big Mind does is provide "a glimpse", a "peak experience" such as, frankly, many people get spontaneously now and again and which indeed attracts many of those people to zen. He is always clear that to integrate this experience takes up to 30 years of sitting. What Big Mind claims is that through this technique, these glimpses can be more reliably experienced than by waiting for peak experiences. My experience is that this is so. However, you and Genpo both agree that this is no substitute for a zazen practice. Fun, yes. Insightful, yes. But no substitute. Genpo does not claim that you can get what you get from sitting for 30 years in an afternoon. If you were to go on a Big Mind retreat, you would recognise the vast majority of it as a standard zen retreat (as opposed to the weekends) only with Big Mind replacing the Dharma talk. There would still be a good 6 hours of sitting, service, samu etc. "encountering the absolute is not yet enlightenment" as you, Genpo and I well know. Why should you not assist people in encountering the absolute though? Our true nature is already here. Zen practice opens us up to it, gives us insight and integrates it. Big mind opens us up to it, gives us a little insight and then gently lets us close down again. That is when Genpo points people towards sitting. The distinction is always made clear.The truth is that anyone can appreciate their true nature right now. (thwack!) There are plenty of examples in the tradition of this kind of opening from pointing-out instructions and debates about its value; Hui Neng and the rest. Zen is the rapid school of instant enlightenment, but still we sit for 30 years. People follow up Big Mind with sitting, or they go home and get on with life having been connected for a short while. Big deal. My point is this. Nobody, least of all Genpo, is saying that encountering the absolute is "yet enlightenment", but that is no reason not to encounter it, is it?

2. This is a scam.

Genpo offers Big Mind as a way of attracting seekers to teh dharma. Yes, he is offering a public stage show, giving people what they want in an American instant form, just as it says on his advertising. However, at each meeting there are invitations to go deeper by beginning zen practice. Going on a Big Mind weekend is not presented as a substitute, merely as a flash. Where is the scam exactly? Genpo has never said that this will give you what you get from 30 years of practice. If he had then yes, it would be a scam. But he hasn't. Nobody is permitted to facilitate Big Mind unless they are in or have completed Koan study. You do not get 'certified' or anything after a Big Mind weekend, like in LGATs. you pay for only what happens on the weekend and then you are left to wash your bowl. Personally, I have found insights in these sessions that I have sat with in my practice and this has been useful. I have never begrudged the money which is by no means unreasonable for that kind of course. It is of a similar cost to yoga weekends or aikido weekends or family constellation work or whatever.

3. Genpo is not interested in Dharma

My experience of Big Mind is that it is firstly and foremostly about spreading the dharma. My experience of Genpo is that this is the passion that drives his life. He believes that it can be delivered in small packages to the general public in a way that is beneficial as well as to monks and you may disagree but you can rest assured that his intention is dharma teaching and nothing else. He is still teaching regular full-package hardcore zen from Dogan, boddhidharma etc. too after all.

Anyway, there is much more to say, but I hope your arguments can be informed by this. There is certainly a good debate to be had about whether this is the right way for zen to be taught or the right way for people to be attracted to zen and generally how zen should or should not change to meet the West. I would love to see you contribute intelligently to that debate. You would be able to do so much more effectively if you cease from making the above assertions which are demonstrably false as could be ascertained if you were to meet Genpo or attend his teachings.

I'm waiting for anyone involved in Big Mind to admit that Gestalt psychologists had been using these same techniques for years before Genpo "invented" them.

er... Genpo states very clearly that Big Mind is a fusion of zen and "Voice Dialogue" which is actually a jungian-inspired technique but is quite Gestalty, so I am pleased to be able to inform you that you can breathe out and stop waiting now.

Hello,I think people should stop wasting their time criticizing what others are doing and just focus on themselves. Each person has something valuable to share and can give constructive criticism without trashing someone elses work or attempts at helping humanity. At the very least for a judgement if you will after you have experienced it. Not just based on assumptions and pre-conceived ideas.

Hello,I think people should stop wasting their time criticizing what others are doing and just focus on themselves. Each person has something valuable to share and can give constructive criticism without trashing someone elses work or attempts at helping humanity. At the very least for a judgement if you will after you have experienced it. Not just based on assumptions and pre-conceived ideas.

Brad, from one dharma teacher to another, is it not better that a dharma teacher should teach his students by example even more than through words or books? One skillful action can be more insightful to a student that one thousand words. An unskillful reaction by a dharma teacher can confuse a student and bury them further into the conceptualized existence that we strive to help them out of. If a dharma teacher allows his pride to flare every time his ego feels assaulted, then how can his student learn to let go of the concept of self? Does it really matter to an enlightened being if someone talks smack? Even if what was said is a falsity, does it really matter to one who has realized that his ego is also a falsity?