Rex Smith: Pay data worth taking a few knocks

Once when I was a kid … only once … I laced on boxing gloves, puffy brown mittens about as big as my head. What seemed like a neat idea lost its appeal after my face absorbed its first punch. Why, I wondered, would somebody intentionally get himself hit?

But prizefighters step into the ring all the time. Umpires get used to people yelling at them. Eventually I grew up enough to realize that in most lines of work, if you take your responsibility seriously, there are times when you’ll have to do what you’re supposed to even if you think it’ll make some people mad enough to want to pop you.

This week, we’re doing something we think is required by the honorable pursuit of our work, knowing some readers won’t agree with our decision.

Like some newspapers in other states, and a few in New York, we are publishing the entire state public payroll online. Everybody who drew a paycheck last year from New York state and from 108 state-chartered public authorities … 375,000 names … is now listed at http://timesunion.com/data/payroll/. You can make your own spreadsheets and become a data analyst.

We understand that if your name is on one of those payrolls, you may be annoyed. Never mind that somewhat less complete versions of the payroll already have been posted by the Empire Center, a conservative think tank, and by the five newspapers in the Gannett chain in this state. If the Times Union is your newspaper, this may strike you as an intrusion.

That’s what editors around the country have heard after choosing to give readers direct access to public data that previously was inconvenient for people to reach. Angry public workers have swamped newspaper switchboards; in California, unions set up pickets at the Sacramento Bee.

But the fear of reaction is a lousy reason for a newspaper to decide to publish or not publish anything. We’re publishing the databases online, and analyzing in print what they show, because we believe it’s something taxpayers are entitled to see.

While the law says this information is open to public scrutiny, it hasn’t always been easy to obtain. Nor was our path entirely smooth when we set out on this project. Our Freedom of Information Law request for a wide range of information was rejected by State Comptroller Tom DiNapoli. What we offer you now was pieced together from separate requests filed with DiNapoli’s staff. Making it accessible to you online also was a difficult task, handled by some very smart people in our organization.

We aren’t insensitive to protecting personal privacy. Our database does not include date of birth, home addresses or Social Security numbers. Its release on our Web site doesn’t make anybody more vulnerable to identity theft or harassment.

What it does, however, is arm taxpayers with information they may need as they weigh important policy questions. Consider the fight over judicial pay; you can see from this data how many thousands of public employees are far better paid than judges. Or think about the impact of heavy overtime on both state spending and individual job performance; this data shows that some people in critical health care positions are working hundreds or even thousands of hours of overtime annually. (We’ll analyze that in Monday’s editions.)

We realize some people will look at this payroll information just for entertainment, or simply because they’re curious to know the salary of the person next door or in the next pod. In Massachusetts, state officials blocked employees’ access to the Boston Herald database because too many work hours were being wasted in what a state official called “improper use of work time and the Internet.”

In coming months, we’ll build a lot of databases on timesunion.com that you might want to pore over. Some will pique your interest, I suspect, and others may simply make you want to climb into the ring with us.

We’d rather avoid the actual punches, thanks, because we’re not trying to draw a fight. We just think putting information on public spending in the public view is an important part of our mission.

131 Responses

#8 and #9, it is not a suprise that there are ignorant individuals out there like you. Do you really think that there are people out there who have jobs in the private sector that don’t waste money as much as you say State Workers do? Come on, get with reality here. It doesn’t matter where these people work, it is a matter of privacy. There are people who work for the State of NY that bust their butts every single day they come to work. A few apples spoil the entire prespective of what a State Worker does for you. It doesn’t matter what anyone says here in this blog, there will always be people out there that think the world has done nothing for them, I say to those people, get off your lazy butts, shut the TV off, and put in a full day of work for once. I am so sick of hearing people talk about “my tax dollars going to waste”. Have a little personal accountability for once in your lives. And to you Mr. Smith, congratulations on creating a controversy, apparently that is all the TU can do lately. Gazzette, here I come. At least they report on issues that we should really be worried about, instead of what the grounds keepers and human resources employees make. Take your boxing gloves off and start to care about everyday issues that the people of NY really care about. Leave the State Employees out of it, you did not do us a favor on this one, you missed the boat.

To all the people who constantly mention that people in the private sector make more money than State employees, I don’t see it from my personal experience. I am a consultant and my State peers seem to make the same or often more money than me and they sometimes do less.

I wish you newsmen had examined the President’s justification for going to war as closely as you have the salary of state workers. If you had, we wouldn’t have spent billions in dollars and countless lives, arms, legs and heads and our economy would’ve been doing just fine. Glad to see you have your priorities straight.

I think everyone needs to stop over reacting about this whole database. Really, what is there to worry about? Do you have anything to hide? If not, then you shouldn’t be worried at all. However, to those individuals who LIE and FABRICATE their time sheets with Overtime hours they did not work….those are the people who should be worried. I’m a state employee myself. And I have no issue at all with this database. Kudos to the Timesunion!

I’m eager to see all of the upcoming audits into alleged time abuse that are bound to start flying soon 😉

Let me just state right from the beginning yes I am a state employee. There is nothing we can do about our names and salaries being posted at this time. What’s done is done. But stop and think about what you are saying and writing. You pay my salary therefore you have the right to know. Okay I also pay taxes therefore I’m I considered a state employee or am I self employed? But that is really not what I’m writing about.

You state I’m overpaid but stop and answer these questions. I’m the fire fighter that has to go into your home that is burning because you went back in to save you pet? Am I still overpaid? I’m the highway worker that gets the call at 2:00 in the morning stating that we got a foot of snow and I must now go out and clear the roads so you can wake up in the morning and have an easy commute in? Am I still overpaid? I’m the police officer that shows up at your house because someone has just broke into your home am I still overpaid? I’m the person taking care of your sick mother, father, brother, sister, son, daughter because you cannot or will not am I still overpaid? I’m the person you talk to regarding your son or daughter class schedule, dorm or just general questions am I still overpaid? I’m the one you answers and even helps you fill out your car registration, license and gives your children the driving test. Am I still overpaid?

What if we took a look at you and decide that you live in a nice neighborhood therefore you must make a decent living and probably overpaid therefore we should let your house burn, your roads stay snow covered, decide that we should not look for your criminals. You go and register your car or renew your license we look at what kind of car you have or what kind of clothes you wear and decide that you must be overpaid therefore should be able to fill out simple forms and follow directions but you still need help. And what if we look at your children’s college application where it states parents’ occupation and salary and determine that you make more then you should for your occupation and therefore should be able to guide your children through the college process but you still have questions.

The state employees that are getting angry here and the ones that you deal with on a daily basis are the ones and yes we do feel overworked and under paid. Maybe next time we will not answer your questions or help you out because we feel you are overpaid. Because as you say you work in the private sector therefore we don’t have a right to know anything about you but we can judge you simply by what we see. It’s that what you are basically doing to us?

Now your neighbors will be able to see how grossly overpaid you are, deal with it.

______________________________________

For every grossly overpaid state worker, there is an equally grossly underpaid state worker. But at least I now know that my awesomely inept boss is pulling down six figures while I draw the same salary as a secretary.

I am glad that these shiftless state workers who are overpaid are exposed and i am glad that this sorry excuse for a wanna be newspaper will be getting boycotted and feel it in their collective wallets, serves both well……

I appreciate your high ideals. That doesn’t make me any less sick at the idea that anyone with a spare moment who knows my name can access my payroll information and job location. People who aren’t having this experience are quick to pooh pooh it. I don’t have high expectations of privacy in this age of computerized everything, but this makes me very uncomfortable. I sincerely hope that only help and no harm comes from this, but knowing how people are, I seriously doubt it.

I am not a state worker. I work in the private sector and I am grateful to the state workforce who do the day-to-day work which keeps New York State running. I like our parks clean and safe; I like that we provide services to developmentally disabled people and individuals with psychaitric problems; I like that my tax dollars pay people to keep our roads and bridges safe. I would not want to work in a prison–but I am grateful that some people do so–and do not begrudge them decent wages.

For those in the private sector who have expressed their jealousy over the state wages–well maybe the problem is that we are not out organizing ourselves into unions so that we can fight for higher wages and better benefits.

Lastly, I am disappointed in the Times Union. As stated in Rex Smith’s piece, this information was already published on-line by an arm of the Business Council. Their really was no journalist reason to publish it here. It is sad to see our biggest local newspaper allow itself to be used as just another mouthpiece for the corporate elite of the Capital District.–a mouthpiece for corporate Capital District.

Posting all of the State salaries by name is ridiculous, and frankly, you should make better use of your time. You are not adding any of the other facts along with my name and salary….like the fact that I have been working over 30 years for the State; I have taken tests and clawed my way up the ladder. I supervise a lot of people and am responsible for things that have statewide implications. And I see people who have less than half the responsibility I have make more money. Those are generally political appointments, and/or NS positions. Maybe your list should concentrate on them? What did they do to earn it? They knew someone that I didn’t know.

I am a state employee and I don’t like my salary being posted. But it is just one of many indignities we public servants have to endure. If companies that do business with state are payed with taxpayer monies, should those people working in those offices, consultants, contractors, political patrons etc. also have their hourly wage posted? Wouldn’t we all like to see what the cut Joe Bruno’s new company CMA gets out of the money we pay for overpriced underqualified consultants? The contractor sitting next to you may get $40 and hour but CMA is billing the state $200 an hour. Guess who gets the rest? Of course the state employee who does the same work AND has to fix the mess the contractor makes is only getting $35 an hour including benefits.

That is the Pataki legacy. Cut the body count but double the patronage and hide it in so called outsourcing. These contractors are taking twice or three times the money a state employee makes and then leaves and leaves a mess we have to fix. You want to save money? Hire state employees and stop paying profits to the profiteers.

As a public servant for more than a decade and a half I have no objection to the availability of this information. What may be confusing to those not versed in civil service lingo is exactly what some of the listed job titles entail. What exactly does a Maintenance Assistant Parks do ? I would bet 90 percent of submitted answers would be wrong. As far as looking at the overtime as a “bonus”, those are the hours where we would be, sleeping, eating Thanksgiving & Christmas dinners, seeing our childrens concerts, baseball games or helping them with homework.
What should not be forgotten is the VALUE of the PEOPLE that provide QUALITY CUSTOMER SERVICE, to CITIZENS of NEW YORK, and also the travelers from other states. While the dollar figures may seem large they have in many cases been proven to be less than that of private contractors. As a public service organization we do not seek to make a profit, just to provide quality service.

I do not want to know the individuals on public assistance and how much they receive. The few that are cheating the system will hopefully be caught and prosecuted. The others have enough problems without a bunch of whining jerks complaining about how much they receive.

When the TU does the proper comparison of consultant salary vs state worker salary, just be sure to show what NYS pays for the consultant, not what the consultant actually receives. In many cases the company is taking at a 50% cut. But these companies get away with it because NYS laws do not allow many of the current consultants to work directly for NYS, they must come in under a subcontract agreement thru an awarded RFP. Just another way the state supports the wealthy at the expense of the poor.

These thousands of hard working Government employees have plain and simple hit life’s jackpot. We in the private sector who must actually compete in a dog eat dog world envy you all. You don’t have any idea how golden you are with job security and pensions. As far as Government employees paying taxes, I cannot see it because all that happens is a portion of the tax money they were paid with is returned. My solution is a 20% surcharge tax on all Public Payrolls. Hey, if you want to throw in the millionaires tax also, go for it.
Now if we really want to solve the budget problem Andrew Cuomos’s Staff needs to be increased by a few thousand blood hound lawyers so they can root out the rampant corruption that enables the out of control spending.

Looking at the time stamp of messages, it is clear that State employees have plenty of time to surf the web during work hours. Some of those State salaries are ridiculously high. It is high time we review and make necessary salary adjustments. If the State was a private enterprise, how many of these people would be laid off?

Rex — You and your staff are guilty of plagiarism. You are stealing the Empire Center’s work and claiming it as your own. Shame on you.

pla·gia·rism
–noun
1. the unauthorized use or close imitation of the language and thoughts of another author and the representation of them as one’s own original work.
2. something used and represented in this manner.

Rex, I want to thank you for now putting my job at risk. I am an employee of New York State, and you do have my salary listed but incorrctly to what I actually make (i actually made lots less). You see, I suffer a chronic long term illness that forces to me to take periodic time off payroll (for the readers, please I qualify for SSI but I choose to work as I can). Well, after you published this today..Guess what…I get a call from the main office..they think it would be a good idea for me to go on disablity..nice going…I worked my butt off to get my degree, use my skills.. but fate dealt me a bad blow giving me an illness…but i fought on working as much as I could even times when ill. It feels like you just ripped my lifeline out. ..you just ruined my life. Thanks Rex!

It seems that Rex and the TU staff think that they are the champions of truth, but don’t like to hear the truth themselves.

Grow a set and quit erasing comments that you don’t like, kids.

As I said before, the TU is plagiarising the Empire Center’s work. If you did what the TU is doing in high school or college, you would get an F for the course and be suspended from the school. Period.

Shame on you.

pla·gia·rism
–noun
1. the unauthorized use or close imitation of the language and thoughts of another author and the representation of them as one’s own original work.
2. something used and represented in this manner.

Ah yes, the “Public’s Right to Know.” If that’s the case, I think State workers have a right to disseminate information about the public, including newspaper employees, contained in their files that are not subject to confidentiality restrictions. Ninety nine percent plus of what is considered public information never gets printed and perhaps state workers can disseminate information the National Enquirer would be proud to print.

As a former Navy Officer (salary public) and an airline pilot (Eastern Airlines – you do that math – sigh) now a NYS public servant (go ahead look me up) the first thing I am going to do is file a lawsuit against my former agency for promoting all those people after I left, after telling me – in writing – that there were no opportunities for promotion there and, “better take what you can get elsewhere…”

So in that regard you have saved me a lot of time.

But, I must say that your depiction of a so-called “state worker” with a dollar sign taped to her mouth is not objective journalism. At least you only surrounded her with $1 dollar bills not $100 dollar bills…

If your point is to suggest that there is waste in NYS government, why not post the salary database of the entire NYS Senate and Assembly and compare it to the database of the “administrative” and “institutional” NYS payrolls. You seem to have conveniently forgotten that legislators are also public servants.

Mr. Smith, prepare to take the heat. You will be receiving plenty of it!

This is truly the death of common sense. what possible public benefit can be derived from publishing the salary of a $30,000 a year mental health care facility worker or $60,000 a year state trooper? This is strictly a Times Union ploy to drive people to your website by appealing to our Paris Hilton- need-to-know-everything lust that is destroying any decency we might have left in America. Don’t try to defend yourself behind journalistic integrity; you’ve opened up a pandora’s box for scammers and nosy neighbors. Next time a state worker dies, you might as well run his or hr salary in the obituary.

By all means, identify the highest paid public employees, and anyone who’s racking up exorbitant overtime. But giving everyone access to everything isn’t journalism, it’s pandering to our darkest impulses.

Now let’s see the TU do its job – some real reporting. Any high school student can publish public information on a web site. How about some real reporting? What did the governor announce appointees were being payed when hired? What they are making now? How much money have they spent on travel? How many of their friends have they appointed? What are their backgrounds and qualifications? Do some real reporting! Maybe start with the state CIO – from Ohio – and her appointees – from Ohio. How much do they travel on the taxpayer’s dime? How much has she spent on food to entertain? on “prettier” furniture? Wasn’t anyone in New York qualified? How many new exempt positions has she created and at what salaries? One of her top appointees posts personal videos on You Tube – during the work day! Those of us in other agencies, forced to pay OFT, are tired of seeing OFT’s executives waste our taxpayer money to build their personal resumes while the real state workers, including those at OFT, doing the business of NEW YORK are continually asked to do more with less.

I find it interesting that the TU leads off this database claiming that this information is hard to locate and obtain by the average NYS taxpayer; yet the Department of Civil Service has posted the starting & promotional salaries for state employee on their website for years – – and it’s not too difficult to locate if you can use any search engine. Wow! You’ve really nailed a scoop here, Rex!

As a state employee and taxpayer, I have no objection to my name and salary being posted – – it goes with being a civil servant, but I do agree with many of the previous posts suggesting hypocrisy as well as sloppy journalism on the media’s part for not delving further into how funds to pay for state services are managed or, in some cases, mismanaged.

Your subliminal portrayal of ALL state workers as overpaid goldbricks is insensitive and stereotypical, not to mention just flat-out incorrect. It’s as if I were to say that ALL newspaper editors are ever concerned with is to sell newspapers, no matter how factual the stories are (or aren’t). But, would that be fair, Rex? I’m sure the TU checks the facts of its stories before publishing the first edition each morning, right?

But, back to the main point… How can the average NYS taxpayer accurately and fairly judge how over- or under-paid his/her civil servant-neighbor is by simply seeing what he or she made this year and the last? How about “walking a mile in my shoes” first before you may just possibly draw faulty conclusions?

Thank you REX for opening up a can of worms maybe SOME STATE WORKERS won’t be lazy any more and will actually do their jobs! I think the T.U. should just have a list of dedicated for Suny administrators Pay roll! That would tick off alot of people :)~!

Rex Thanks again for all of your hard work and causing some real trouble!

A Job well done. You and your staff get an A in my book!

The only way to keep people honest and reliable is to embarrass them, if that doesn’t work murder them or throw them in a mental institution to undermine their character as law enforcement does!

May Peace be upon you all!

Coming to you live from an expelled Student of UAlbany under false pretense just like how this war was started! Have no fear Tauqeer (Ty-keer)Sadiq the Conniving Enthusiast is here! TaDA!