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I'm sure many of you have heard about the convicted felon whose mugshot has leaked to the internet and gone viral because he's a handsome guy. Girls are taking donations to pay this guy's bail if the news is accurate and odds are the man's a killer. This just made me think about how society's value system if off these days and too much importance is placed on physical appearance. Just look at the way things are marketed, it seems like the sex sells advertising method is used more heavily today than ever before. Plus I'd argue one of the many reasons our president has survived all the scandals to his name is because he is one of the beautiful people. Oh, and Kardashians.

I haven't heard about it, but I can definitely see it. I think every president gets away with some shitty shit and I don't think the Kardashians have really done anything to get away with. But they're not famous for their sparkling personalities and intelligence, that's for sure.
Unfortunately, education isn't a primary concern for most people in this country.
But I think that beautiful and interesting people will always have a head start. It's just the nature of things. But it doesn't mean that everyone else can't fulfill whatever it is they need.

Charles Manson received more fan mail than any inmate in the history of the prison system. Things, people, and ideas have become romanticized all over the place since romanticizing was physiologically possible.

Yeah, sorry but most arguments that include some version of "these days" are usually flawed. We've been a shallow, generally ridiculous species since our creation/evolution/spontaneous generation.

I totally see your point there. What I was getting at, more specifically, was the notion that through reality TV, the news and other outlets that this concept of beauty being power is now all the more visible and harder to hide from than it ever was before, whether you're a boy or girl, advertising and television a lot of the time sends the message that beauty is on the outside, and the wide spread nature of this flawed message is damaging to many people.

But attractiveness does have value, biologically. It's hardwired. Sex (particularly sex with an attractive person) is an extremely powerful motivator. Many would say the most powerful, and that has little to do with the perpetuation of its value throughout media (which also isn't anything new, and I'd argue that's never not been the case). That's why I wouldn't say it's "damaging." It's reality, and a good lesson to learn.

That being said, if you were to argue that other qualities are being devalued (like not being a fucking felon, for instance) then yeah. I get that.

I'd say we simply have different tools to disseminate the information. The Emperor had no clothes long before Kim Kardashian didn't. Look at most any finds of old civilizations right after they find the armor and the skeleton they find the porn stash. We have a live medium now, so I'm sure it's different in a lot of respects, but the only time people didn't make money through salacious exploitation would be if there was a ruthless dictator in charge that killed all of the salacious sellers.

Sort of contrary to your whole thought process though is that today, there is at least the pretense of voices claiming we're not looking at true beauty, blah blah blah. Can't think of any other time in history that's happened. Lot's of famous paintings and sculptures of boobs and penis's though.

History also tells us there's never been a generation that upon aging looked on their current state and did lament the day's gone by...

But attractiveness does have value, biologically. It's hardwired. Sex (particularly sex with an attractive person) is an extremely powerful motivator. Many would say the most powerful, and that has little to do with the perpetuation of its value throughout media (which also isn't anything new, and I'd argue that's never not been the case). That's why I wouldn't say it's "damaging." It's reality, and a good lesson to learn.

That being said, if you were to argue that other qualities are being devalued (like not being a fucking felon, for instance) then yeah. I get that.

I'd have to disagree with it not being damaging. I'll just jump into the most common example: the heavily touched up pictures of models that can be seen all over the place nowadays. These physically unattainable visions of beauty cause lots of problems among people, like eating disorders (you're never skinny enough), self mutilation (I'll never be pretty enough).
It is important to always be seeking self improvement, but these false icons of the human image are destructive to a lot of people.
I see how beauty is definitely a powerful motivator and it's motivated people throughout history to do both great and terrible things and it's hard to overcome a standard that's always been in place since the beginning of time but I think the encouragement of valuing inner beauty in addition to outer beauty, plus the complex differences of every individual, maybe the elements of beauty can be harnessed for self betterment and not self destruction.

But you weren't talking about photoshopped pictures. You were talking about beauty being displayed as power, which it is. It's not damaging to make that obvious because it's true. What you're discussing now is the issues of what we find beautiful, and that's been discussed to death. It's also nothing new. Incan head reshaping, Chinese foot binding, Renaissance statue's disproportionately small legs (including the third one, cuz a big one was considered humorous), etc.

Yeah and the things you said towards the end there are what I was looking for when I started the thread, the damaging effects of desiring beauty and its underlying power.
I have to say I agree with you that it is the way of the world, I wasn't aware of those historical occurrences other than the foot binding.
To be honest I'd have to research this more to really debate this with you, Liberum, and the other people who've contributed thus far. I just figured starting a thread here would be a good way to start in my education on this, as I've started other threads and people have shared some really interesting information and perspectives.

I don't think beauty alone is power. There are plenty of beautiful people living mundane, ordinary lives. I think money and exposure are the major difference here. People have always and will always strive to be beautiful. Always, man. Now they just strive to be as exposed as possible, as well, in hopes someone will rcognize them some day.

I don't think beauty alone is power. There are plenty of beautiful people living mundane, ordinary lives. I think money and exposure are the major difference here. People have always and will always strive to be beautiful. Always, man. Now they just strive to be as exposed as possible, as well, in hopes someone will rcognize them some day.

Yeah, a lot of this. In days gone by your exposure was limited to your town. Today your town is the world, and anyone with a cell phone can be an international celebrity if you take the right selfie or film the right You Tube clip. But the root of all this has always been the same, there's always been a "look at me" attitude. In the middle ages a plump woman flaunted the fact that she has so much food, very hot and very powerful for the time.

Let's steal some of Ritt's words of wisdom too. Nawlidge of the power you can wield when it's coupled with "beauty" is pretty impressive. And that whole "beauty" thing changes over time. For men in particular the standard of male beauty will always be associated with the power the dude wields. Well, except for the stable hand in chapter 5, but that's still power of some type.

Also, I think realy pretty people get shit on an awful lot. If you're really, really hot, people are gunna have a hard time believing you somehow ended up really, really smart as well. Ugly people are going to resent you for no fault of your own, often right away. People who find you attractive are going to resent you if you don't find them likewise. People might assume your life is easier than theirs if they feel you're more attractive than they are. The list goes on.

I think I'm biased because I live in an area where 80% of the population is absolutely beautiful. Around here beautiful people just breed with other beautiful people in hopes of making beautiful kids, and if they don't, they have the money to hook them up with braces and dermatologists and personal trainers. It's not uncommon or outrageous to have had a nose job/jaw reduction/breast enhancement by the time you turn 20.

I don't think it makes people's lives easier or that they're nessecarily more powerful for it, It's the money or legacy that makes them more successful, if anything.

My boyfriend's sister is an absolutely gorgeous woman working as an actor in LA. It's not really much different there than it is here. You're gorgeous. So what? So is everyone else. Good luck establishing yourself as anything more substantial than the person next to you.

In my experience, you have a better chance at being recognized for your attributes if you're at least a little weird looking. People are less likely to write you off as a pretty person. Less likely to assume you just think the world of yourself. You actually have to DO something to be recognized.

Nah. Some may have that experience. There're a lot of resentful people out there. But from my experience, pretty people are more likely to command attention around them. As adults, their confidence from being pretty is pretty solid. Yeah, we learn to value other things, but good looks go a long way well into adulthood.

Unless you're pretty AND popular as a kid, and then that shit tanks by the time you're like 22. The popularity I mean. They did a study about it recently. I don't remember where I read it, but it was an interesting thought.

Nah. Some may have that experience. There're a lot of resentful people out there. But from my experience, pretty people are more likely to command attention around them. As adults, their confidence from being pretty is pretty solid. Yeah, we learn to value other things, but good looks go a long way well into adulthood.

I mean yea, until they're surrounded by more pretty people.

You're gunna pick a dolphin out of a school of fish pretty easily but that same dolphin gets lost in a whole pack of em.

I think beautiful people have mostly the same problems everyone else has except getting laid with people who less beautiful people want to lay. People will automatically prioritize the problems they have as the highest in importance. So they see those people as having "easier" lives because of it.
Beautiful will change depending on social standards, but people will always be jealous of those who fill the requirements.

I think that's well said. Being beautiful isn't going to find you love, but it will get you laid. Unless you're gunna model, it's not going to get you a job you're not qualified for. Unless you blow someone, but anyone can blow someone, you know?

Uh, actually, good looking people are more likely to get the job interview, and get paid more.

People want good looking people to like them, in my experience, no matter the sex, and even if they don't like the person.

If you're a good looking person surrounded by better looking people, then you're not really a good looking person in that place. That's why the typical douchebag's taken to saying, "She's an 8 here, but an LA 5."

^ I gotta second that to some degree, being beautiful is a foot in the door in some situations, but certainly not all. You'll always have that young manager out to hire a gorgeous young women (which honestly is a good business tactic in a way. Hmmmm...), but at the same time you've got that employer who needs the qualification, not just the pretty smile.

So attractive people can't be qualified? One of the things that sucks is that for women in particular, an attractive woman is assumed to have gotten her job because of her looks. So can't really find inner beauty if the assumption is that it can't be wrapped in a pretty package.

Not to mention, if you remember that case from a few years ago, attractive women are subjected to bullshit like being "too attractive" for the work place, and can be fired because the boss thinks it's a threat to his marriage or some malarkey like this. You don't hear this happening to "unattractive" women. Hardly her fault he's a horndog.

So attractive people can't be qualified? One of the things that sucks is that for women in particular, an attractive woman is assumed to have gotten her job because of her looks. So can't really find inner beauty if the assumption is that it can't be wrapped in a pretty package.

Of course attractive people can be qualified I was just showing the two different perspectives, but of course there's more than two as everyone is different.
It's fascinating really how many different perspectives there are to look at things like this.

^ I gotta second that to some degree, being beautiful is a foot in the door in some situations, but certainly not all. You'll always have that young manager out to hire a gorgeous young women (which honestly is a good business tactic in a way. Hmmmm...), but at the same time you've got that employer who needs the qualification, not just the pretty smile.

Yeah. Pretty people might be more likely to get a job than people who are equally as qualified as they are, but it's not like you're gunna get a job based on how good looking you are alone without any qualifications. Pretty isn't a qualification for anything. Unless you're modelling. Or doing porn. Or something.

Wait though this whole discussion was about that guy who is pretty and got arrested for gang and weapons charges?

Like I don't think that dudes life is easier than anyone elses. He's in a gang and steals cars for a living.

Also it's cool people wanna pay his bail but you can also get a bondsman to do that for you if you're like, not pretty or whatever. And I heard it's his mom crowdsourcing for money, not people just throwing dollars at their computer monitors like monkeys throwing shit.

He's getting free money for being pretty, despite being a felon. Bondsmen don't give away free money. That's the discussion. The inherent value in good looks. I'd wager a good looking man that has five years of experience would get the interview or raise over the ugly guy with six. Probably not over the guy with ten or more, no matter how pretty. Still. If my assumption is right, and I think it is, that shows a significant amount of value.

Of course this isn't set in stone. There're plenty of people that've learned to look past all of that, but, again, I'd bet more haven't.

Plus I'd argue one of the many reasons our president has survived all the scandals to his name is because he is one of the beautiful people.

Really? What scandals? Benghazi and spying? Those are weak.

And I don't know where you live but round here he can't sneeze without getting called Hitler.

And he's really... just average, isn't he? He's not ugly. He's not ridiculously handsome. He's just perfectly adequate. Same even goes for Clinton who would be a better example of a politician with a bad scandal and but groupies. I don't actually know if he had groupies but my mom was into him pretty hardcore so I assume she wasn't the only one. Does anyone actually consider Obama sexy? I'd find that kind of hard to believe. He doesn't give off that vibe. I think Clinton gave off that vibe (for my mom and her crew) but I don't think that was based on looks at allllllllll.

Plus I'd argue one of the many reasons our president has survived all the scandals to his name is because he is one of the beautiful people.

Really? What scandals? Benghazi and spying? Those are weak.

And I don't know where you live but round here he can't sneeze without getting called Hitler.

And he's really... just average, isn't he? He's not ugly. He's not ridiculously handsome. He's just perfectly adequate. Same even goes for Clinton who would be a better example of a politician with a bad scandal and but groupies. I don't actually know if he had groupies but my mom was into him pretty hardcore so I assume she wasn't the only one. Does anyone actually consider Obama sexy? I'd find that kind of hard to believe. He doesn't give off that vibe. I think Clinton gave off that vibe (for my mom and her crew) but I don't think that was based on looks at allllllllll.

If sexiness won elections, Mccain would have won.

ummm Benghazi, spying, both those are pretty damn bad alone, plus releasing a US Army deserter in a trade for 5 Taliban leaders without any approval from congress whatsoever, the Obamacare disaster, I mean it's one thing after the next. Spying on the entire nation isn't a weak example, Nixon got impeached for wiretapping a room I mean what's the deal with that.

Technically Nixon got impeached for covering up the Watergate break-in. Disliking policies or programs though aren't really scandals. Clinton getting an intern blow job while talking to a senator counts as a scandal, because you're the most powerful man in the world and you do Lewinsky? That's scandalous. At least JFK banged Marilyn.

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