322 comments on “2012 Game Thread: Knicks @ Wizards”

complete and utter must win if there ever was one so early in the season tonight….in fact, I really think they need to take these next two to right the ship somewhat (including tomorrow night’s game at detroit).

If past performances so far hold up, Young should be detrimental to the Wizards due to him being an idiot and Shump shutting him down. Carmelo will forget to rotate to an open Lewis 3. Blatche will blow past Amar’e. Tyson and Javale might just neutralize each other.

STAT was excellent at start of last season before he and felton built chemistry and had the pnr down…and he has played well in limited action without strong PGs before as has been referenced on this board before, so I don’t know what is wrong with him….

I actually wonder if there is some linger back issue we don’t know about…he looks clumsy out there…his ballhandling, which he claimed to have worked on, looks shaky at best…is this just a situation where he was able to take advantage of centers guarding him before? I don’t get it…he doesn’t even resemble the player we knew from start of last season to me…even his leadership has tailed off…he seems subdued out there.

Maybe the fact that amare couldn’t work at all on his game over summer except for the one month leading up to season is having an impact…his shot is turrrrrrrrible and last season it was completely money…he seems to have lost a step, too, of his explosiveness.

I am a die hard met fan too….I thought the mets’ current ineptitude would be offset by knicks’ success, as knicks’ patheticness was somewhat offset by Mets’ competitiveness from 2006-2008, but I guess not….

just pathetic….no other word for it…I feel disgusted….absolutely no fire on this team from anyone either.

art vandelay:
I am a die hard met fan too….I thought the mets’ current ineptitude would be offset by knicks’ success, as knicks’ patheticness was somewhat offset by Mets’ competitiveness from 2006-2008, but I guess not….

just pathetic….no other word for it…I feel disgusted….absolutely no fire on this team from anyone either.

the mets situation combined with this debacle has really killed my sports passion for the time being. It’s hard right now. Football is a distant 3rd for me. At least I can watch a Giants playoff game this sunday.

are there problems in the locker room? this is inexplicable that they could possibly play this lethargic after the last 2 outings….I mean no energy at all…completely listless…I can accept bonehead plays….they have no floor general, I understand this could in a normal season be equivalent of preseason game….but the team looks just completely clueless and out of it out there…besides being in disarray….truly concerning.

yessssss, 16 point lead again. I really wish this was the garden, so we could hear the boo’s and the fire dantoni chants. That’s all I have to look forward too now. Paul wetpaul, van gundy, phil jackson, herb williams? anyone but dantoni.

Oh and another point – Imagine if we had traded fields instead of Gallo in the Melo trade last year. How come no one ever brings that up? I bet they wanted fields more – he was more highly regarded at the time.

One of this team’s main problems is that they have no really good 3-point shooters (at least, ones that can do other things decently too).

The only positive I will say about Amare so far this season is that he looks to be getting after it a bit more on the boards, although that hasn’t really shown up in the stats thus far…maybe the extra bulk will boost his rebounding number, but that has been offset by underwhelming rebounding stats from chandler thus far and I would gladly take the STAT who scored over 30 9 games in a row over this one who is less spry, can’t shoot, and maybe grabs a few more boards/game.

One thing that really irks me about the melo trade is how the media constantly point out how we opted to “hold onto” Fields and keep him out of the trade as if we preferred him as a player over Wilson Chandler and Gallo…clearly denver dictated the terms of the trade once we lost all leverage due to Dolan’s influence…DENVER chose our players…I don’t think we decided to keep Fields because we loved him so much….that is just how the trade went down…but I constantly here criticism of management that we should have not insisted on Fields being kept out of the trade, and I really doubt that is accurate.

Does TD start the second half? Interesting to see what the guard rotation is going to be- at least Fields played a little better defensively when he finally got back in but is giving zero on offense. Could we really wind up with a starting backcourt of Shumpert and Walker?

For your halftime entertainment, feel free to take a gander at this NY Times ditty. (though the editors there don’t seem to fancy my verbosity and have sliced and diced it as Clyde would say – badly cut it to ribbons. Grumble, grumble)

Robert Silverman (@BobSaietta):
For your halftime entertainment, feel free to take a gander at this NY Times ditty.(though the editors there don’t seem to fancy my verbosity and have sliced and diced it as Clyde would say – badly cut it to ribbons. Grumble, grumble)

Robert Silverman (@BobSaietta):
For your halftime entertainment, feel free to take a gander at this NY Times ditty.(though the editors there don’t seem to fancy my verbosity and have sliced and diced it as Clyde would say – badly cut it to ribbons. Grumble, grumble)

Got my Direct TV. Picture is great btw and it’s cheaper than TW. At least I can watch. Why do the Knicks start so slow each game? Is there a game plan for each team? Amare looks much better tonight and Melo is penetrating, the other’s, not so much. llcoolbp—you’re one lucky dude, enjoy it. My grand kids are already double figures!

1) Bob, great (short) piece. My guess is that people hate him for his combination of dumb fame (being famous by association), dumb luck (being tall and athletic) and dumb brain (dumb). No way to know. But if he’s hated, that means America’s at least got one thing right. If people wise up to how much SOPA will destroy the internet as we know and love it, this will be a good month for the average American.

2) In hindsight, Shumpert is a great pick. Either he exceeds expectations by (gasp) developing a jump shot, or his “athleticism” compels D’antoni to let him shoot eighteen times a game and his per-game totals make him a valuable piece in a STAT trade for Kevin Love (who would be perfect learning to play D next to Chandler). Will this happen? Of course not. But a man can dream.

1) Bob, great (short) piece. My guess is that people hate him for his combination of dumb fame (being famous by association), dumb luck (being tall and athletic) and dumb brain (dumb). No way to know. But if he’s hated, that means America’s at least got one thing right. If people wise up to how much SOPA will destroy the internet as we know and love it, this will be a good month for the average American.

2) In hindsight, Shumpert is a great pick. Either he exceeds expectations by (gasp) developing a jump shot, or his “athleticism” compels D’antoni to let him shoot eighteen times a game and his per-game totals make him a valuable piece in a STAT trade for Kevin Love (who would be perfect learning to play D next to Chandler). Will this happen? Of course not. But a man can dream.

I was never a major TD supporter on this board….EVER! and I certainly don’t like him as PG….Jason Terry is his ceiling…that is what he could become if all goes well for him in his career…maybe I am even giving him too much credit. I was much more pro Gallo of the homebred guys.

Melo is such a good catch and shoot player, I wish that the Knicks would find ways to take advantage of that more often. Sadly, I don’t think it’s possible with the current crew of players, but maybe when Davis is healthy it will be.

even if b diddy comes back, shump has to play the rest of the season. On this team, the way they are constructed, he just fits. I don’t want to hear about landry fields first 50 games last year. That was 2 teams ago. The guy lost his chance. I’m still willing to see if TD can turn it around as a 6th man.

Shump needs to not shoot, but otherwise he’s great. Is tony hurt? Did he not touch a ball during the lockout? He absolutely should not be this awful. Nice to see the chandler we’ve been waiting for tonight

Stray thoughts- Nice to see Bibby finally walk amongst the living once more- those 2nd half shots he hit were huge but I’ll be keeping my distance from the local graveyards tonight just in case a stray meteorite may have caused all the dead to rise! Melo actually played within the offense for the first 3 1/2 quarters and then…wow. I know he scored the last 10 points for the Knicks but that was truly awful. The Knicks can’t stop the ball at all in transition- that really needs to change. TD’s stint in the second half rivaled Jeremy Lin’s run in Sacramento for the worst play I’ve seen by a Knick this year. A couple of breakdowns against Blatche aside, Amar’e was okay on D, a few late rotations but at least it seemed he had a clue where he was supposed to be.

Totally agree with nicos- Melo played great until heroball started in the last few minutes- that was ugly. Good thing he hit the big 3 to win the game. Hard to argue with 37 points even though it took 33 shots to get there.

Call me crazy and overreacting to a couple of games, but i think it’s not a stretch to say that Shumpert will be the best defensive guard the Knicks have had since Derek Harper was allowed to handcheck guys into the 1st row. He is ALWAYS in the passing lanes, sticks like glue to his man, rebounds, everything. He had 5 steals and probably caused 3 or 4 turnovers. Now of course we’re talking the Wizards here and not exactly Dwyane Wade or Derrick Rose. But wow does he make a difference on the court, on both ends.

Shump has great reflexes in addition to his great athleticism. There were a couple of occasions tonight where a Knick was open underneath the basket and BOOM, quick pass for a layup or free throws. None of our other guards have the ability to do that, so we rarely get easy baskets when Toney D, Fields and Bibby are handling the ball. Shump just needs to limit the long jumpers and he’ll be a really nice piece for us.

Decent win. Shump is looking good, but a bit of a chucker. At least he’s confident. Remember that cool shot with his family when he was drafted? I think that is important and I hope he maintains that chip on his shoulder (opposite of entitlement). Also, his eyes look focussed during the game. Coach learns best by trial and error. What is SOPA?

Call me crazy and overreacting to a couple of games, but i think it’s not a stretch to say that Shumpert will be the best defensive guard the Knicks have had since Derek Harper was allowed to handcheck guys into the 1st row.

I hope they give Melo the night off. He has been carrying us on his back and he needs to let whatever it is heal up. Lets get him back for the Bobcats on Monday. Maybe Amare can remember what it is like to be the man and revert to his MVP form.

The Honorable Cock Jowles: You just made that argument. Mediocrity.And just because he’s the best player on a shitty team doesn’t make him “great.” Kevin Love syndrome, right?

Mediocrity?

Melo needed to make and take shots tonight, once again. He wasn’t playing to maximize his individually efficiency, which would have had him passing to guys so far offensively incompetent– Melo was playing to win.

ruruland:
Did Melo not just will his team to a win tonight? He’s playing like the MVP right now, even if many Knicks fans don’t like it.

Kudos for making the shot at the end of the game, but honestly, Melo almost blew it. he was 14-25 midway thru the 4th and then started chucking and/or turning the ball over. There’s a reason they went scoreless for 3 minutes at the end of the fourth a lot of it is b/c Melo wouldn’t stop shooting, missing 7 in a row before the trey at the end.

Parting Shots – Landry!!! Holding onto you cost us Wilson and this is how you perform? Landry needs a semi-competent PG who can get it to him on the break to get his confidence up, or those 3’s will keep clanging away. I don’t think replacing him will help, we need to start Shump and Fields until Dizzle comes back, then we need to move Fields to backing up Shump and Melo. I really don’t even know where TD fits anymore, seems like he’s mailed in this season. And he’s not good enough to mail in anything

Robert Silverman (@BobSaietta): Kudos for making the shot at the end of the game, but honestly, Melo almost blew it. he was 14-25 midway thru the 4th and then started chucking and/or turning the ball over. There’s a reason they went scoreless for 3 minutes at the end of the fourth a lot of it is b/c Melo wouldn’t stop shooting, missing 7 in a row before the trey at the end.

Wow. Melo needed to go 20-33 for 47 pts tonight to please the peanut gallery. In the context of what the Knicks are right now, Melo did what he needed to win the game.

I am one of, if not the biggest, Melo supporter here but he did help in almost blowing the game in the end. Granted his 16 for 33 included like 5 blocked shots, a couple of them being very close to goaltending and it looked like Melo wasnt getting his usual foul calls when driving.

I hold polar opposite positions regarding censorship of subject matter as contrasted with governmental enforcement of intellectual property rights. I will definitely check out the site. Thanks for the link Robert.

Re: Amare — not a great offensive line tonight, needing 21 shots to get 23 points. But I thought he played significantly better on defense tonight. Sure he had a few lapses but overall I thought he was much more active. Two games in a row with 12 rebounds. Maybe most significantly – he looked like someone finally told him he is NOT allowed to try to run a fast break on his own — he stopped and found a guard just about every time. Definitely some signs of progress. If we can just get him to stop shooting turnaround J’s that would be great.

BigBlueAL:
I am one of, if not the biggest, Melo supporter here but he did help in almost blowing the game in the end.Granted his 16 for 33 included like 5 blocked shots, a couple of them being very close to goaltending and it looked like Melo wasnt getting his usual foul calls when driving.

It is hard to watch because he actually MAKES so many shots while driving into three guys… you start to believe those are good shots for him to take. If he can just drive and dish a little more, he would be a really great player.

ess-dog: It is hard to watch because he actually MAKES so many shots while driving into three guys… you start to believe those are good shots for him to take. If he can just drive and dish a little more, he would be a really great player.

guys need to start making shots… Melo is playing to win basketball games.

ruruland: guys need to start making shots… Melo is playing to win basketball games.

Yeah, but I think the point everyone is making is that “Melo trying to win basketball games” can be bad for the team. He was taking bad shots. When they went in, swell, but when they stop falling or he isn’t getting the calls, it’s a big, big problem. The rest of the team gets stagnant/out of rhythm. And he’s gotta stop kvetching at the refs while the opposing team is racing down court.

If you’d like a less statistically inclined/analytical blog, I can certainly direct you there.

Robert Silverman (@BobSaietta): Yeah, but I think the point everyone is making is that “Melo trying to win basketball games” can be bad for the team. He was taking bad shots. When they went in, swell, but when they stop falling or he isn’t getting the calls, it’s a big, big problem. The rest of the team gets stagnant/out of rhythm. And he’s gotta stop kvetching at the refs while the opposing team is racing down court. If you’d like a less statistically inclined/analytical blog, I can certainly direct you there.

Save the snark. You clearly aren’t contextualizing the situation. Melo is not a point guard who is going to spend the game ensuring everyone is in proper rythym. he’s playing on a team without a competent pg, who is severly struggling to make open shots and make proper decisions.

If this team is going to win games in the interim, Melo is going to have to be a hero.

ruruland: Save the snark. You clearly aren’t contextualizing the situation. Melo is not a point guard who is going to spend the game ensuring everyone is in proper rythym. he’s playing on a team without a competent pg, who is severly struggling to make open shots and make proper decisions.

If this team is going to win games in the interim, Melo is going to have to be a hero.

Who said he has to be a PG? There’s a big spread between playing PG and not forcing shots when they stop dropping. That’s all anyone here is asking (that and get back on D).

Guess what – Melo “being the hero” hasn’t worked most of this season and statistically, he’s having the best year of his life. Maybe trying something else would be better?

AS you say after a win, when once again the supporting players were average at best. Maybe Melo should do a Kobe (game 6 Semis) and just let everyone else figure it out….Maybe that would get the point across that he’s doing this because he has too. When guys start playing better (collectively) around him, the usage will go down as well.

BTW, Melo has had better stretches than this.. for sure…He started the 2007 season first two months at 31.5 ppg 4 dimes +50% fg (then the MSG fight and Iverson trade) as well as the 2009 seasn before he got hit with injuries. This could be the year Melo stays healthy and finishes with a 24-27 PER, 30 ppg 4-5 apg….but this team is going to improve