ammo shortage

I know it hard to tell but when do you think this present ammo shortage will go away? If I remember right the last one we had in 2009 went for several months but I don't remember it being as bad as this one. Just wondering what others thinks. thanks

be safe

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returningfire

February 16, 2013, 04:40 PM

Don't know. Depends mostly on what the politicians do, it may never get any better than this again. Seems like last time that within a year things were looking better. But Who knows?

PabloJ

February 16, 2013, 07:08 PM

There is no end in sight. The buyers are stressing the market forcing companies to pay for overtime to make more at higher cost of what is selling the most. Due to .223, 9x19,....crowd sadly soon even fellow like me shooting 10x25 will see empty spaces with labels attached. Instead of buying non-perishable food items and batteries they're buying ammo in quantities vastly exceeding reasonable needs.

tuj

February 16, 2013, 07:15 PM

According to Hornady, they are running full-out and can't meet demand. It's nuts.

M2 Carbine

February 16, 2013, 09:40 PM

I think this is going to go on for some time.
There are thousands of new gun owners that will be buying ammo for some time to come.

If gun owners have learned their lesson, many should wise up to the fact they should have a year or more's amount of ammo put aside. So the smart ones will will keep buying so as to not be caught with their pants down again.

Then there's the problem of the out of control liberal government that will continue to make it hard on gun owners. So we had better get all we can, while we can.

It will take some time, as it did last time to return to normal. Very few manufacturing companies can absorb a huge increase in demand. Either they are labor limited in not having a surplus of skilled people. Or their equipment is already fully employed. Too many companies are pared to the bone in our uncertain economic times. I'm sure they will ramp up as soon as they can, but they will be doing it carefully in our equally uncertain political times.
Those are just my opinions of course.

Stress_Test

February 16, 2013, 11:34 PM

Guess the economy isn't all that terrible if so many people can keep buying up all the guns and ammo in sight!

No tinfoil involved! DHS supplies millions of rounds each and every year training police officers. A billion rounds is just a couple years supply for DHS training. Not to mention having a stock pile in the event the SHTF. DHS doesn't just train their own officers. They train police officers from all across the country.

The current ammo shortage is due to a cut in production capability that took place before Obama thought about running for president. Almost all ammo that doesn't have components that are considered as "trade secrets" is manufactured abroad. Winchester metric rifle ammo is made by prvi partisan for an example.

Havok7416

February 17, 2013, 02:35 AM

Midway among other companies is restricting quantities to individual customers. If every company does this, availability will return quicker. Otherwise the panic will feed off itself and every time a box of ammo hits the shelf it will be snapped up.

In know my local gunshop could barely keep any of the popular cartridges in-stock even before the gun-ban scare, and they were charging 13.99, 14.99 for 9x19 Remington UMC :barf: . I think some locations just sell out easier, and the recent panic-buying has amplified that effect.

tuj

February 17, 2013, 03:08 AM

If gun owners have learned their lesson, many should wise up to the fact they should have a year or more's amount of ammo put aside

I guess it depends on how much you shoot, but I don't even have room in my house for a year's worth of ammo if I shoot at the rate I desire. The real problem is that people who don't shoot frequently are buying cases of ammo now too.

xjsnake

February 17, 2013, 09:01 AM

I talked to the owner of my LGS and he showed me his distributor catalog. He literally CANNOT get 9mm at any price right now. He was pricing out magtech .380 at $23/50 and he paid 21.50/50 just to get it in the door. He's making almost no money on ammo right now.

PabloJ

February 17, 2013, 09:25 AM

People are slow learners. During last shortage period .40S&W was plentiful. The same is true today. Instead of buying .40 they try to squeeze every fps out of the 9x19 by choosing +P or sometimes +P+ ammo. Not very smart of them if you were to ask me.

OilyPablo

February 17, 2013, 09:32 AM

I bought .357Sig and saw 10mm for less than generic 9mm (9x19) yesterday.

Can't find 9x19 for decent prices.

Seeing more .45ACP

.223 is coming down a bit.

And lastly can't find 9x18!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DJW

February 17, 2013, 09:55 AM

American public effectively disarmed by threats of "bans" on many firearms.

BSA1

February 17, 2013, 10:10 AM

American public effectively disarmed by threats of "bans" on many firearms

Huh???

BisleyBlackhawk45

February 17, 2013, 10:11 AM

It has not been that many years ago that the statement was popular..."buy a 9...you will ALWAYS be able to get ammo" :rolleyes:

Sam1911

February 17, 2013, 10:12 AM

Huh???Back in the first Obama panic someone came up with a really beautiful piece of circular logic that attempted to prove that ... let me see if I have this right...

Obama wants to prevent folks from being able to buy guns, so he intentionally created a panic with the tacit goal of making folks buy guns in record numbers, thus cleaning out all gun store inventories of all guns and ammo, and buying every gun the manufacturers could produce -- so that there wouldn't be guns on the shelves at the local gun shops so folks couldn't buy guns. So, in the end, making folks buy ALL the guns was his way of making it so folks couldn't buy guns.

That's one of those bits of thinkin' that leave you with that pleasant dizzy feeling like when you stand up too fast! :)

Hangingrock

February 17, 2013, 10:26 AM

The current situation is the equivalent of when normal consumption is displaced as in the example of fuel sales during a weather event which disrupts the normal distribution and consumption cycle. This equates to the adage of a wise man urinates when he can not when he must. From a manufacturing stand point why make capital investments in manufacturing capacity when the demand is not with in a normal rate of predictable consumption. They the manufactures have been thru these cycles before and so has the consumers.

OilyPablo

February 17, 2013, 10:38 AM

It has not been that many years ago that the statement was popular..."buy a 9...you will ALWAYS be able to get ammo"

:banghead: And all my friends were "consolidating" - "only need one caliber". "Don't want to stock other ammo"

Me? I have so many calibers even I think it's a bit nuts. Well not really. Crazy like a fox - I have now seen 10mm and .357Sig lower priced than commodity 9mm. This was my plan - and people laughed at me! Simple really, zombies leave whatever ammo laying around. I scrounge it and most likely have a gun for it. ;) Or during sane times, buying this or that on sale is much easier.

Seriously I predicted this. Seems like something I learned from playing the markets for nearly 40 years.

Stress_Test

February 17, 2013, 10:47 AM

:banghead: And all my friends were "consolidating" - "only need one caliber". "Don't want to stock other ammo"

Me? I have so many calibers even I think it's a bit nuts. Well not really. Crazy like a fox - I have now seen 10mm and .357Sig lower priced than commodity 9mm. This was my plan - and people laughed at me! Simple really, zombies leave whatever ammo laying around. I scrounge it and most likely have a gun for it. ;) Or during sane times, buying this or that on sale is much easier.

Seriously I predicted this. Seems like something I learned from playing the markets for nearly 40 years.
It definitely makes the 9mm/.40/.357 sig interchangeable automatics attractive. Same as a convertible single-action that can shoot 9mm, .38, and .357

Jhass

February 17, 2013, 11:04 AM

I saw this coming last year and stocked on reloading supplies. I don't feel like I need 5000 rounds. I did buy a 17 hmr because the bullets are plentiful.

Probably this time next year things will be calmed down.

jrdolall

February 17, 2013, 11:17 AM

I have an abundance of 9mm FMJ. I have bought an extra box or two or three every time I see it on sale. I also made several bulk purchases the past two years from internet relaoders selling "blems". An ammo can generally holds 16 boxes of 9mm so I have at least 8,000 rounds in 50ct boxes plus the several thousand in bulk. I do shoot 9mm more than anything else so it will disappear quickly if I can't replenish but 10k should last me a while.
I have several other calibers as well but 9mm is what I have my hat hung on for a pistol round. These other calibers, 357,38,45,380 I generally only have a few boxes laying around and I actually bought a box of 357 and 2 boxes of 38 at Walmart last week. .380 would be the one I would run out of the quickest if I could not buy any more ammo.

.22 is the other one that concerns me because we shoot it more than any other caliber. 10k rounds is a short supply and that is all I have on hand. I gave a friend 3 50ct boxes on Friday so he could sight in a new rifle and it hit me how little I actually have on hand.

tipoc

February 17, 2013, 03:52 PM

A few years back S.P. Fjestad, a well respected figure in the firearms industry and editor of "The Blue Book of Gun Values" wrote a couple of essays on the rising ammo prices and scarcities. This was not long after the panic following Obama's first election. Fjestad pointed out that now and then there are panic buying sprees, they last awhile and then things resume to more or less normal. But he pointed out a couple of things lately make the effects of the panic buying last longer and in some ways deeper than previously.

Over a decade of war has effected the availability and prices of basic components, brass, primers, copper, lead, powder, etc. Billions of rounds, of many calibers, have been produced and used by the U.S. military alone. The brass left lying all over the middle east. The components become scarcer, military contracts take priority, prices rise. This has effected the price of ammo available for the consumer market and the price of the components to produce it.

Add to this the increased use of ammo by law enforcement in the last couple of decades and particularly since 9-11. Money from the DHS and other agencies, flooded into police depts. of all sizes for "anti-terrorist" programs. Everybody got new toys and they needed training. This drove up the availability and price of ammo.

The other big factor is the economy. Fuel prices have risen and transportation is added to the costs of both production and distribution. The price of copper, brass, lead, etc. have all risen. Same with the cost of insurance, etc.

So when a panic hits the effects last longer and bite deeper.

Keep in mind that after the first panic the prices never returned to pre-panic levels.

tipoc

Drail

February 17, 2013, 05:16 PM

D.O.D. and law enforcement contracts DO take priority. Our military and police cannot get all of the ammo they want. Our ammo industry is not like General Motors. It is a small industry that is struggling 24/7 a week to meet orders.

RedAlert

February 17, 2013, 05:52 PM

Fortunately both my SIG P239 and P229 have .357Sig and .40S&W barrels. Now I can switch back and forth depending on ammo availability. Both of these serve as my EDC depending on my daily activities.
As far as the ammo shortage goes, this too will pass.

miles1

February 17, 2013, 06:25 PM

I give it 3 months to the best of my uneducated POV!

PT92

February 17, 2013, 07:47 PM

I saw this coming last year and stocked on reloading supplies. I don't feel like I need 5000 rounds. I did buy a 17 hmr because the bullets are plentiful.

Probably this time next year things will be calmed down.
I might look into that as well just to have something to shoot at the range absent breaking the bank--Don't know too much about the caliber so I best start reading up...

I always thought .22lr would be plentiful but I have been proven wrong about that (I have lots on hand but I don't want to deplete my supplies if I can't simultaneously replenish).

PabloJ

February 17, 2013, 07:51 PM

D.O.D. and law enforcement contracts DO take priority. Our military and police cannot get all of the ammo they want. Our ammo industry is not like General Motors. It is a small industry that is struggling 24/7 a week to meet orders.
So why is .40S&W so readily available?

BYJO4

February 17, 2013, 08:19 PM

While nobody knows for sure, I think we will begin seeing things getting better by this fall.

tipoc

February 17, 2013, 08:30 PM

... Our ammo industry is not like General Motors. It is a small industry that is struggling 24/7 a week to meet orders.

Do you mean the munitions industry in the U.S.? I'm not so sure that it's a small, struggling, industry. I believe, collectively, that it's one of the largest in the world. It supplies a large domestic and international commercial market, the military and law enforcement needs of the U.S. and has a thriving business supplying military and law enforcement needs with foreign contracts.

I'll just add this bit from a introduction to the "2013 Small Arms Ammunition Manufacturing Industry in the U.S. and it's international Trade Report"

The industry's revenue for the year 2011 was reported at $3.6 billion USD, with an estimated gross profit of 35.73%. Import was valued at $.9 billion USD from 50 countries. The industry also exported $2.6 billion USD worth of merchandise to 120 countries. Adding import value to and subtracting export value from the industry's shipment value, the total domestic demand for the industry in 2011 was $1.9 billion USD.

tipoc

Bovice

February 17, 2013, 09:00 PM

I can find plenty of .45, thank god I have guns that can use it. Last time it was only .40 that was available. This time, not so much. Forget about any .223. It's gone.

I reload but components are worse off than boxed ammo. So I'm buying again.

Going out on a limb (GUESS) - 38/357Mag might be on par with .40S&W in sales volume to JQ Public (don't flame me) not sure.

I mean .gov buys tons of .40S&W but the general population? I'm not seeing it.

GLOOB

February 17, 2013, 11:37 PM

10k rounds [of 9mm] is a short supply and that is all I have on hand.
Well, here's the reason a shortages happen.

If you asked yourself BEFORE the panic, I doubt you would have worded it this way. You would have felt just peachy waiting, as you were, to buy a few boxes here and there, only when they were on sale. If you felt like your supply was so short, you would have bought thousands of rounds when they went on sale or w/e was avail at the "regular" price.

Now that everyone is feeling the same way at the same time, poof. No ammo.

I dunno how many rounds you shoot for recreation, but 10k sounds like a pretty decent amount, to me. It's hard to feel sorry for someone that can only sent 2k rds downrange a month, rather than 4k, lol. It sucks to not have more, but after 10k rounds, it seems a little like crying about a shortage of cocaine and hookers. :) Do you have a full auto 9mm, or what??? :)

jhco50

February 18, 2013, 02:23 AM

Actually S&Wfan, I have heard they put in another order for 47+ billion. I forgot where i read that, but that is a substantial amount of munitions.

Havok7416

February 18, 2013, 02:50 AM

Actually S&Wfan, I have heard they put in another order for 47+ billion. I forgot where i read that, but that is a substantial amount of munitions.
Care to back that one up? Sounds like a lot of "internet truth" to me.

oldbear

February 18, 2013, 07:37 PM

I got caught flatfooted in the last shortage, and swore to myself it wold not happen again, so I currently have a two year supply of ammo on hand, and I have not purchased any ammo in the last three or four months. As much as I would hate to if push comes to shove I will limit my shooting practice time.

With the last scare there was no pending Legislation to ban firearms or limit magazine capacity as there is now. So I think this panic may last longer than the first one. I use the word panic as I believe that is the main reason for the current ammo shortage. Remember there is no pending legislation to limit ammo and no reason I can think of to buy thousands of rounds of ammo just to have it stashed away. Buy what yo need to meet your shooting needs with a normal back up supply.

David E

February 18, 2013, 09:05 PM

Remember there is no pending legislation to limit ammo

There is at least one bill proposed that would eliminate online sales. Various states have proposed "must show ID" for ammo sales, others have proposed a NICS check for ammo sales and others capping ammo at 1000 rds (a mere 2 bricks of .22)

and no reason I can think of to buy thousands of rounds of ammo just to have it stashed away.

None at all, eh?

Buy what yo need to meet your shooting needs with a normal back up supply.

These "un-normal times" require a serious reevaluation of what number of rounds constitute a reasonable back up supply. For some folks, that's a different number, usually higher, than it was Dec 13th.

M2 Carbine

February 18, 2013, 09:34 PM

I dunno how many rounds you shoot for recreation, but 10k sounds like a pretty decent amount, to me.
Depends on how much you shoot.

A few months ago when I bought a Ruger LC9 I put over a thousand rounds through it in eight days.

Several times a week I shoot low light/dark with laser/light equipped guns (home range). That's at least 200 rounds each evening and that's not counting what I might shoot during the day.

Yesterday there were three ladies and one man shooting as my guest. I supply the ammunition and some of the guns. I don't even know how much .223 they blasted through my Kel Tec PLR and that doesn't count the 22, 32, 380 and 9mm they shot.

A good time was had by all.:D

So, 10,000 rounds can go pretty fast.

David E

February 18, 2013, 10:30 PM

So, 10,000 rounds can go pretty fast.

Yeah, a lotta people don't get that.

justice06rr

February 19, 2013, 12:20 AM

According to some people I talked to who went through the same thing in 2008, it took at least 6months for supply to normalize and catch up with demand. That means about around July at the earliest, optimistically. Although when that time comes prices will have a "new normal" i.e. a box of 9mm will be $15 instead of $11.

If gun owners have learned their lesson, many should wise up to the fact they should have a year or more's amount of ammo put aside. So the smart ones will will keep buying so as to not be caught with their pants down again

The problem with buying a year's worth of ammo, is that not everyone can afford to buy that much ammo in a short amount of time, and if everyone bought a year's supply of ammo then we would still have the shortage we are having now.

Spymaster

February 19, 2013, 01:24 AM

I saw this coming last year and stocked on reloading supplies. I don't feel like I need 5000 rounds. I did buy a 17 hmr because the bullets are plentiful.

Probably this time next year things will be calmed down.
Last year? I saw this coming in 07/08 when a communist got elected POTUS. Now after four years of his incessant lying, brazen collectivist intentions, and scandal after scandal he gets re-elected in an electoral landslide? You can be assured that there is no tin-foil hat conspiracy theory that I'd be stupid enough to dismiss out of hand.

The walmart class of ammo buyer, the ones who foolishly thought Obama was a great guy, and always buy their ammo one box at a time, they may as well dump their guns, because they are not going to be able to afford them for the next four years, just like gasoline for their cars.

Thats not conspiracy, thats just a painful fact.

Torian

February 19, 2013, 01:31 AM

Spymaster....spot on with all points.

David E

February 19, 2013, 02:18 AM

According to some people I talked to who went through the same thing in 2008, it took at least 6months for supply to normalize...

Except this isn't anything like 2008

The problem with buying a year's worth of ammo, is that not everyone can afford to buy that much ammo in a short amount of time,

If someone foolishly waits until the last minute, you're right. Warning signs have been there since the 60's, but did everyone sleep thru the 2008 shortage? There was at least a 4 yr warning this time.

if everyone bought a year's supply of ammo then we would still have the shortage we are having now.

Not if it had been spaced out over 4 yrs.

rhinoh

February 19, 2013, 04:50 AM

a wise man urinates when he can not when he must.
Very true!

Been scouring for .22 but also have been buying boxes of everything I shoot when I happen to run across it. I reload all centerfire I shoot and am pretty well stocked on components from the last scare, just wish I had time to reload as much as I should.
As mentioned by others- I have had little trouble getting .40 which seems odd given the government is the largest user of that round, and all the chat of DHS buying literally tons of ammo.:scrutiny:

TheDaywalkersDad

February 19, 2013, 07:54 AM

I can't see this getting better any time soon. It's definitely worse than 2008/2009. I could always find ammo at the gunshows during the last ammo drought. I refuse to even try to get into a gunshow at this point. 1hr waits to get in aren't for me.
I could always find ammo at Walmart after midnight during 2008/2009. Most of the employees didn't mind opening a few boxes on the pallets when I showed up at the gun counter at 1am (shift worker). The last time I was in Walmart, the guy working the gun counter said they haven't gotten ANY ammo in during the past week.
I've got a decent amount of ammo put away but if I keep shooting at my current rate I'll start getting worried about replacing it in a few months. I doubt that things will get better anytime soon because the income tax refund checks will be coming out and that money will no doubt go towards guns and ammo (for many).
I remember 2009 and the Dems working for Obamacare. It took a year to get it passed with a majority in both the House and Senate. If they work on gun control for the next year without resolving things then the current drought could become the new norm.

PT92

February 19, 2013, 08:06 PM

Definitely unprecedented but ironically not unexpected (for those that 'had a hunch and IMO it's not rocket science ;) ). If you remove the variable of emotion from the equation and logically look at the situation, it's not too difficult to see that with the election of a BO as POTUS, a left-leaning Chicago Democrat of whom is clearly on "The Record" as being Pro-Gun-Control (look at his anti-2A votes both in the State and Federal Congress) that at the very least a "verbatim review" of 2A would be on the Administration's Agenda. Once he chose Eric (Fast&Furious) Holder as AGOTUS (again someone clearly on the record as pro-gun control and who is now The Nation's Top Cop :eek:) I knew the assault on 2A was "on." And if that weren't bad enough, BO then gets the opportunity to "define" the future direction of the Nation's Highest Court for the next generation to come with his two appointments of left-leaning Justices Sotomayor and Kagan. Looks as though to be almost certain another SC Justice or two will either retire or expire during BO's second term meaning that a 're-interpretation' of 2A will be heard...One of The First Lady's campaign speeches last year clearly was centered around the importance of her husband's re-election pertaining to the future direction of the SC. So how this current predicament comes as a surprise to anyone escapes me :confused:.

BTW, I briefly alluded to F&F in the aforementioned and it warrants a thread in and of itself--but I maintain that whole "fiasco" was yet another example and illustration of the Administration's hostility towards 2A. The operation IMO was geared to promote the Administration's objective of the absolute necessity of Gun-Control in that the resulting carnage of the inherently flawed covert plan would "beg" for the implementation of stricter gun-control legislation...

PabloJ

February 20, 2013, 07:09 AM

Went to LGS few days ago. They had Hornady JHPs 155gr, 180gr, Buffalo Bore JHPs, HPR JHPs, plus FMJs from Remington and American Eagle. The prices were same as before last election. There is no shortage of ammo. Please stop creating panic among gun owners.

David E

February 20, 2013, 04:56 PM

Went to LGS few days ago. They had Hornady JHPs 155gr, 180gr, Buffalo Bore JHPs, HPR JHPs, plus FMJs from Remington and American Eagle. The prices were same as before last election. There is no shortage of ammo. Please stop creating panic among gun owners.

Maybe you should go back and ask them how long it lasted. While you're there, try and buy a brick of .22 for $15

Denying a fact doesn't change the fact.

silicosys4

February 20, 2013, 05:08 PM

Went to LGS few days ago. They had Hornady JHPs 155gr, 180gr, Buffalo Bore JHPs, HPR JHPs, plus FMJs from Remington and American Eagle. The prices were same as before last election. There is no shortage of ammo. Please stop creating panic among gun owners.

^^ This, the more I see the more I feel this is not a shortage as much as a huge, TEMPORARY spike in demand. The ammo is arriving at the dealers, and going out onto the shelves, same as always. You just have to be there at the right time. Just because you and everybody else spends WAAAY more on ammo and is stockpiling WAAAY more than you were 6 months ago doesn't mean there is a "shortage", per say....and just because ammo manufacturers are not geared up to deal with a TEMPORARY spike this big doesn't mean the industry is losing ground or doesn't have its feet under it. Temporary demand is just that, temporary, and its better to have temporary backorders than permanent unused machinery.
I see .22lr ammo arriving on shelf at my local sporting goods store at the same times, in the same amounts, as always. The difference is, people are buying them up incredibly quick. Use hasn't gone up, supply hasn't gone down, demand sure has gone up though.
I saw .223 Remington boxes of 20 yesterday at the LGS for $9.99, same as before the panic. A few days before it was bricks of Blazer .22lr for $20/brick at the local sporting goods store.

SharpsDressedMan

February 20, 2013, 05:38 PM

9mm 115gr fmj Blazer is up about $5 a box over what they were 4 -5 months ago. They are now $18 a box.

greghvac

February 20, 2013, 05:47 PM

i think the one's buying them up don't shoot,they are turning around and selling them.

nyresq

February 20, 2013, 05:52 PM

The demand is up, not the production down... people are panic buying. A local gun store here is getting a deleivery a week and 9mm, 223 and 45 are all gone in less thean 48 hours. And he is getting a palet of ammo, not a few cases. People arent walking in and buying 2 or 3 boxes, they are walking in and buying 2 or 3 CASES of ammo... At some point when people have what they think to be enough, they will back down on the demand and you will see it on shelves again. Its the people who before december had 10,000 rounds and figured they were "prepared" now think they need 100,000 to be prepared... for what, I am not sure, but they are prepared...

Seven High

February 20, 2013, 08:12 PM

I would think that foreign manufacturers of ammunition would step up and fill the void.

jrdolall

February 20, 2013, 09:21 PM

I walked in Walmart today and they had 3 boxes of Tula .380 FMJ for $14.97 50ct. I bought all three boxes because the two LGS I frequent and this Walmart haven't had any in over a month. I normally would probably have bought 1-2 boxes since I often carry a .380 but I "panic bought" all three.

Sniper66

February 20, 2013, 09:30 PM

Went to my local Cabela's in Kansas City this past weekend and was told that they get deliveries of ammo and reloading supplies in frequently and it sells out in the first hour...every time. Further, he told me there is a line at the door every morning when they open. They have limit on how much you can buy, but it still sells out quickly. To there credit, Cabela's is selling the ammo for their usual prices, when they could probably double the price.

I picked up 3 one hundred round boxes of WWB 9mm at one of the local Wally Worlds yesterday, needed to replace the two I shot over the weekend and add one extra.

Furncliff

February 20, 2013, 09:48 PM

This is an automatic cartridge loading machine.
http://www.ssarmory.com/images/auto_loader-ADCOM.jpg

It's only one of the machine that's needed to process raw materials into a complete cartridge.
It's not like the ammo manufacturers can go down to the local machine making place and pick one of these up for a few thousand to increase production. Not to mention he also needs the other machines as well. Even if could pony up the bucks these things are not "in stock", it's got to take months to make one of these.

All this to say that there's just so much capacity and what with the advent of just in time stocking practices, ammo manufactures can't keep up with this much increased demand until the dumb butts who are hoarding ammo run out of money and stop buying. We can only place the blame on our idiot brothers who keep this insanity in motion.

M2 Carbine

February 20, 2013, 11:40 PM

Went to LGS few days ago. They had Hornady JHPs 155gr, 180gr, Buffalo Bore JHPs, HPR JHPs, plus FMJs from Remington and American Eagle. The prices were same as before last election. There is no shortage of ammo. Please stop creating panic among gun owners.
The LGS is two miles from my house and always has the Coffee pot on.
I spend a lot of time there shooting the bull, so I see the manager in action with his distributors a lot.
Not only can't he get ammo, he can't get guns. Last week he managed to get a case of 9mm, .380 and 32 and you would think he won the lottery.

I see a LOT of people coming in looking for guns and ammo. The story is the same over and over, "Man I've looked everywhere and I can't find any 9mm, 22, etc, etc."

I'm teaching five ladies to shoot. In the last several weeks I've given them almost 5,000 rounds of 22LR, .223, 32, .380, 38 Special and 9mm.

hogshead

February 20, 2013, 11:54 PM

Went to LGS few days ago. They had Hornady JHPs 155gr, 180gr, Buffalo Bore JHPs, HPR JHPs, plus FMJs from Remington and American Eagle. The prices were same as before last election. There is no shortage of ammo. Please stop creating panic among gun owners.
"pablo" I have been trying to get 22 lr for over a month at 3 different WM. There is none I would call it a shortage perhaps you have a better word for it.Regardless I am not creating panic among the gun owners. Obama did that.

PabloJ

February 21, 2013, 02:25 AM

Went to LGS few days ago. They had Hornady JHPs 155gr, 180gr, Buffalo Bore JHPs, HPR JHPs, plus FMJs from Remington and American Eagle. The prices were same as before last election. There is no shortage of ammo. Please stop creating panic among gun owners.
"pablo" I have been trying to get 22 lr for over a month at 3 different WM. There is none I would call it a shortage perhaps you have a better word for it.Regardless I am not creating panic among the gun owners. Obama did that.
I have joined the panic crowd and cleaned out LGS of all JHP 10x25mm ammo. Not :cool: but in times like ours one must think of numero UNO.

tuj

February 21, 2013, 05:17 AM

Man this shortage is making competitions hard. I'm glad I have enough ammo to get through my next few, but I can't afford to buy a whole year's worth of competition ammo all at once.

BTW, the .22lr I buy is $15/box and always has been. But that's Eley for ya...

jrdolall

February 21, 2013, 07:17 AM

I had a friend call me yetserday afternoon to borrow some .22 ammo. This a pretty well off financial planner that mostly shoots quail and skeet but they were going to do some target shooting prior to today's quail hunt. He went to 4 stores in Columbus GA as well as Barrow Automotive, 40 miles east of columbus, and could not find a single box of 22. He only wanted a couple of hundred rounds.
Saying there is no shortage of ammo is like saying there is no shortage of gas because Saudi Arabia has plenty of oil.

OilyPablo

February 21, 2013, 07:32 AM

No shortage?

Yea, we can play semantics.

JohnBT

February 21, 2013, 08:16 AM

I was surprised to see nearly a pallet of Federal AE 9mm FMJ at a local gun store yesterday. I suppose if you're a big enough outfit you can (eventually) get some ammo. This shop is big enough that a few years ago it was Winchester's ammo dealer of the year.

Oh yeah, there was a one box limit and $21.95 iirc. I offered to sell them some of my ammo for resale, but they can't do that. I started buying ammo in 2002 when I first thought about retiring and when I finally retired this past October I was still stocking up when I found a sale.

I was there to buy a spinnerbait box and look for a boat seat, but ended up at Bass Pro for the boat seat. I didn't even bother to walk upstairs to the gun dept. I'd just been to both places Sunday. :)

PabloJ

February 21, 2013, 08:34 AM

I was surprised to see nearly a pallet of Federal AE 9mm FMJ at a local gun store yesterday. I suppose if you're a big enough outfit you can (eventually) get some ammo. This shop is big enough that a few years ago it was Winchester's ammo dealer of the year.

Oh yeah, there was a one box limit and $21.95 iirc. I offered to sell them some of my ammo for resale, but they can't do that. I started buying ammo in 2002 when I first thought about retiring and when I finally retired this past October I was still stocking up when I found a sale.

I was there to buy a spinnerbait box and look for a boat seat, but ended up at Bass Pro for the boat seat. I didn't even bother to walk upstairs to the gun dept. I'd just been to both places Sunday. :)
All local Bubbas go there I suspect shelves are empty of higher demand stuff. Last time I was there they had sign by .222 spot that said that it was not same as .223!:scrutiny: Very funny stuff.:o

Plan2Live

February 21, 2013, 08:50 PM

Do you remember what happened about 5 years ago when gas prices shot up and everyone thought there was a gas shortage? And do you remember what happened about a week later when everyone backed off and let the supply build back up? In short, we created the shortage.

So, if we all took a 60 day break and didn't buy anything for 60 days and didn't raid the stores after the 60 days then supply would probably level off and the shelves would be full again and if the shelves were full then we wouldn't feel the need to hoard and so on. The tough part is getting everyone to agree to that 60 day moratorium. Won't happen, so we will have to endure this a bit longer.

Now, imagine what will happen if there is even the slightest interruption in the food/essentials supply chain.

justice06rr

February 21, 2013, 10:55 PM

Except this isn't anything like 2008

Of course not. It was Obama's first term. He did not touch on Gun control much, but now that he's on his 2nd, he's got nothing to lose.

If someone foolishly waits until the last minute, you're right. Warning signs have been there since the 60's, but did everyone sleep thru the 2008 shortage? There was at least a 4 yr warning this time.

I never saw any warning signs from the 60's, i'm sure others didn't either. You have to remember that not everyone was born around the 60's, and many new gun owners today are not even aware of 2008 shortage or 1994 AWB.

No shortage?

Yea, we can play semantics.

Exactly.

A spike in Demand will cause a shortage in supply. You can sugarcoat it anyway you like, or hide behind the lie of denial, but we have a shortage.

Sun195

February 21, 2013, 11:10 PM

Sometimes, having a slightly oddball caliber is fortunate in times like these. I was at Cabelas the other day and most of the shelves were pretty bare. However, they still had 10mm (something I picked-up last year) and .41mag (something a friend owns).

David E

February 22, 2013, 12:19 AM

Of course not. It was Obama's first term.

And the 6-12 month shortage on ammo, mags and ARs took place based on the fear of what this rabid anti-gunner might do.

I never saw any warning signs from the 60's, i'm sure others didn't either.

Which doesn't change the fact. The 1968 GCA was a wakeup call, as were proposals for an ammo tax of 10,000% (yeah, 10,000) and other draconian measures.

many new gun owners today are not even aware of 2008 shortage

Are they also unaware who won the election??

Tony50ae

February 22, 2013, 04:33 PM

The two Walmarts nearby actually got in some Federal 9mm 115 fmj. That was all they got! I was hoping for some 45 or 380. I don't own a nine...yet.:)

GLOOB

February 22, 2013, 05:24 PM

many new gun owners today are not even aware of 2008 shortage
Yup. That's me. I had a gun back then, but I didn't do a whole lot of shooting.
The only shortage I remember was the .380 shortage of 2011. :)

jrdolall

February 22, 2013, 05:36 PM

I bought three boxes of .380 Tula from Walmart on Wednesday. Went back today and they had about 10 boxes of .45 so I bought three. They are getting it in in dribs and drabs but selling it as soon as it hits the shelves.

capcyclone

February 22, 2013, 05:59 PM

I had slowly been trying to stock up , but hadn't gotten to a level where I wanted before the madness began. So now i'm trying to hold off and let things get back to normal, but yeah - once stock becomes available in a more regular fashion, I'll be one of those people that needs to stock up for a rainy day.

TheDaywalkersDad

February 23, 2013, 08:01 PM

I remember being able to find ammo in 2008/2009. My strategy was to hit up the local Walmart at 1am after getting off from work. The pallets were on the floor after being unloaded and a bored employee would always dig through a box or two looking for ammo.
Sometimes they had what I was looking for and sometimes it was a hodge podge of different calibers. I could always find ammo every week though.
The last time I was in Walmart the gun counter clerk said they had not had an ammo shipment all week.
I could find ammo online in 2008/2009. Good luck buying anything online today without having to sell a kidney first.
Some areas are clearly better than others but I wouldn't claim that there isn't a shortage of ammunition merely because one store or Walmart has a few boxes of 9mm.

I have a decent supply and can probably keep shooting until about summertime. I've decided to help out a few friends that aren't quite as well stocked so that may cut into my shooting a bit. Hopefully that Karma thing will work out.

I have pistols with two calibers, .40 S&W & 9mm. I purchase ammo at two main places--Wal Mart & Academy Sports. I've bought both .40 pistols within the last 45 days to move to a larger caliber from the 9mm, as all I owned before were 9mm's & ammo was hard to find. I've learned the truck unloading times of the 3 Wal Marts I shop at regularly, & know that Academy trucks arrive and are unloaded before they open each M-W-F. The last time I found 9mm locally was 3 weeks ago at a Wal Mart, & I can get .40 once a week at a Wal Mart. I don't know the last time I saw 9mm at an Academy, but they regularly have .40 but at higher prices than Wal Mart. However, if you are diligent in your internet searches, you can find 9mm, for a price, & I have a good supply. It is amazing to me to see the empty shelves on a daily basis. As I've stated elsewhere, we don't have to worry about gun control laws if there's no ammo to shoot those guns.

CDW4ME

February 24, 2013, 08:16 AM

Wal-Mart(s) around here never have pistol ammo, just guys waiting looking at bare shelves.

http://www.luckygunner.com/40-s-w-180-gr-hi-shok-jhp-federal-classic-1000-rounds
You need to go to Walmart located in a large city near or in bad neighborhood to get some pistol ammo. If you live in small town you're pretty much screwed.

Onward Allusion

February 24, 2013, 12:41 PM

Definitely a What-The-Freak moment for me! Nothing in the stores, nothing online but the 0.50 per round stuff. I seriously don't understand this at all. 9mm, 38spl, 45ACP, 40S&W, 357mag sure...those calibers I understand, but 22LR???! :what:

It was not this bad in '08 & '09.

Torian

February 24, 2013, 12:46 PM

Just picked up a case of Winchester 500 rounds (RA9115HP+) this morning for 310.00. It's pretty zippy for a 115 grain +p+ load. Almost identical to the Federal 115 +p+ 9BPLE loads. I would normally have considered this overpriced...but now I think it was a decent deal.

As I see massively inflated prices across the board for a multitude of items (not just ammo), it makes me wish I got more into gold a few years back. At least gold would hold it's value vs. depreciating like the dollar.

PabloJ

February 24, 2013, 01:09 PM

Definitely a What-The-Freak moment for me! Nothing in the stores, nothing online but the 0.50 per round stuff. I seriously don't understand this at all. 9mm, 38spl, 45ACP, 40S&W, 357mag sure...those calibers I understand, but 22LR???! :what:

It was not this bad in '08 & '09.
If people don't stop hoarding ammo there is no end in sight. Pretty soon less popular rounds will disappear from the shelves as manufacturers will focus on what sells the best.

David E

February 24, 2013, 05:40 PM

If people don't stop hoarding ammo.....

Sure getting tired of the "hoarding" word. It's a pretty meaningless word right now, since it means very different things to people.

.....manufacturers will focus on what sells the best.

T'was always thus.

Nomad1972

February 24, 2013, 09:26 PM

So I stop by my local Walmart for a sled for the kid and take a walk over to look at the bare ammo shelves. Guy says that the Cabelas down the road just loaded up the shelves with .223 and 9mm so I make a run over to finally grab some 9 for our upcoming plate shoots and such.
The 9 is gone by the time I get there and people are reaching past each other to grab whatever they can. I pick up 3 boxes of PMC .223 and one of the guys says "you know you can buy 10 boxes". I reply that I only need 3 and he looks at me like I was nuts. He has 10 boxes of .223 10 of 7.62, and 10 of something else...... I asked him how many rounds he has thru his new AR and AK and he says he has just sighted them in and is loading up on ammo.

People who have never been into shooting are hoarding ammo for no damn good reason!!

I am in Maine and we got 12" of snow today and these boneheads are snatching up ammo that will sit in their closets for months or years until they decide to unload it.

PT92

February 24, 2013, 10:21 PM

...People who have never been into shooting are hoarding ammo for no damn good reason!!...

I feel your pain ;). Yet the aforementioned statement is subjective and can be argued effectively both ways with the outcome or answer far from empirical (either way IMO). We may look back on this run as yet another example in our great Nation's history of a temporary yet unprecedented paranoia that swept through the Country as an "exaggerated" result of "unfounded" panic that arose from several tragic shootings of which politicians tried "unsuccessfully" to exploit for their political goal of "enhanced" gun control (AKA to some as outright confiscation). Or conversely, we may look back on those that scooped up all available ammo when "it could affordably be had" as clairvoyant, clever individuals of whom clearly analysed current events, correctly anticipated the "potential" forthcoming government restrictions/regulations regarding ammunition and acted accordingly (even in light of the ostensible criticism).

Only time will tell...? I will say the scare we saw in the late 20th Century with Clinton's AWB pales in comparison.

PabloJ

February 24, 2013, 11:04 PM

I gave up and bought bunch of ammo for my handgun. I suspect in few weeks shelves will be empty of almost all handgun cartridges. Thankfully selection was very good, no box limits and price was same as before last election. Life is grand.

Marlin 45 carbine

February 24, 2013, 11:31 PM

10 years hence prodigy may well say 'them was the good ole' days'

justice06rr

February 25, 2013, 12:21 AM

Which doesn't change the fact. The 1968 GCA was a wakeup call, as were proposals for an ammo tax of 10,000% (yeah, 10,000) and other draconian measures.

Thats not the issue. Its because many people weren't born in that time frame and are not familiar with that. I don't even know what 1968 GCA is.
For the younger generation, all that is foreign.

many new gun owners today are not even aware of 2008 shortage

Are they also unaware who won the election??

Of course not. But Obama's second term he is actually vocal and specifically stated his gun-grab intentions.

In short, many new shooters are NOT aware of anything that has happened before 2012 that has to do with ammo shortages and such.

Sure getting tired of the "hoarding" word. It's a pretty meaningless word right now, since it means very different things to people.

Get used to it. Hoarding is pretty much what it is, having thousands of ammo stockpiled and buying more even when you have a sufficient amount.

Its as prevalent as the terms 'prepping', SHTF, zombie apocalypse, etc.

David E

February 25, 2013, 01:09 AM

Obama's second term he is actually vocal and specifically stated his gun-grab intentions.

Prior to the 2012 election, many people dismissed any concern about obamas anti-gun history raised by "paranoid" people who simply took a look Obama's words and actions on the topic. Some of those naysayers are regular posters here, so it's incumbent upon YOU to do your own research on things that matter to you.

In short, many new shooters are NOT aware of anything that has happened before 2012 that has to do with ammo shortages and such.

Reread the previous. New shooters "not knowing" have no one to blame but themselves.

Get used to it. (the word "hoarding") Hoarding is pretty much what it is, having thousands of ammo stockpiled and buying more even when you have a sufficient amount.

What qualifies YOU to determine if what others have is sufficient?

788Ham

February 25, 2013, 01:27 AM

STRESS_TEST,

I wish you lived close to me, I just found 6 full 50 rd. boxes of .22 mag in my stash box. I had a rifle sometime back, guy didn't want the ammo when I sold rifle to him, so I put in the stash box. $100.00 bill takes it all.

Onward Allusion, my buddy found some .22's about 2 weeks ago at Sportsmans Warehouse, they wanted $89.00 a brick for .22's ! $8.90 a box, I remember when a single box cost 29 cents, and I'm not that friggin' old.

PabloJ

February 25, 2013, 02:48 PM

Now two boxes of .357Sig per fellaw.....OH BOY. Few more weeks and no ammo....MAMMA MIA!

jrdolall

February 25, 2013, 03:06 PM

Here is how we stop the ammo shortage. Nobody buy any ammo. None at all. Just let Walmart and Academy and the LGS load up their cabinets and don't buy any. Then we can trickle back in and they can have a one-three box limit and everyone will quit worrying about it.

Yeah right! That will happen just like we will force the gas stations to lower their prices by not buying gas.

PabloJ

February 26, 2013, 01:34 AM

Here is how we stop the ammo shortage. Nobody buy any ammo. None at all. Just let Walmart and Academy and the LGS load up their cabinets and don't buy any. Then we can trickle back in and they can have a one-three box limit and everyone will quit worrying about it.

Yeah right! That will happen just like we will force the gas stations to lower their prices by not buying gas.
I get two boxes per day which is great because I have to drive by the place every day. Oh
yeh, life is grand!:o

emb

February 26, 2013, 10:02 AM

I learned my lesson the last go round. However, I was surprised by the lack of 12g and .22. When things calm down, I guess I'm going to start reloading for shotgun too. In the meantime I'll start picking up cases at the range. There is not much I can do about the 22s.

Good luck guys. You can buy it, but its here and there and only 2-3 boxes at a time.

justice06rr

February 27, 2013, 05:20 AM

Prior to the 2012 election, many people dismissed any concern about obamas anti-gun history raised by "paranoid" people who simply took a look Obama's words and actions on the topic. Some of those naysayers are regular posters here, so it's incumbent upon YOU to do your own research on things that matter to you.

Actually, myself and many people I know didn't even vote for Obama. We didn't want another 4yrs of this bs, but the rest of the country voted for him anyway--and probably not based on his 2A views. One doesn't really need to research to know where Obama stands, just look at his first term and he'll get the idea.

It doesn't take a genius to know that Sarah Palin is Pro-gun, and I would gladly have voted for her instead.

(mods, sorry is a bit off topic and veering into politics).

Reread the previous. New shooters "not knowing" have no one to blame but themselves.

The same can probably be said about the shortage caused by the hoarders who bought up all the ammo and left none for the new shooters.

What qualifies YOU to determine if what others have is sufficient?

I dunno, I never said anything like that. What sufficient for you is your decision. One may think a few boxes of ammo is enough, while another may think 20k of ammo is not enough.

Anyway, i'm not arguing with you and understand your points. I'm just pointing out some of the issues I see knowing a few new shooters that can't even find ammo. A good friend of mine just literally took interest in guns because he has 2 young daughters going to elementary school and he wants to take responsibility for their safety. It would be hard for him right now to find any ammo, but I will probably give him a few boxes if he needs them.

PabloJ

February 27, 2013, 01:11 PM

If they don't change I don't see how republicans can get one of their own into the White House. It isn't enough just to have the old folks, evangelicals and gun huggers on your side. I'm thinking current situation will be status quo.

David E

February 27, 2013, 03:26 PM

My point is, many dismissed the impact a second Obama term would have. As a result, they didn't see any need to buy ammo and told others not to worry about it.

Now we have a shortage and they're the first to point and yell "Hoarder!" at anyone that had the forethought to buy some extra ammo.

I agree that the current ammo situation sucks for new shooters.

Certaindeaf

February 27, 2013, 03:32 PM

If they don't change I don't see how republicans can get one of their own into the White House. It isn't enough just to have the old folks, evangelicals and gun huggers on your side. I'm thinking current situation will be status quo.Who is "they"?

Coyote3855

February 27, 2013, 03:55 PM

I received today 1500 rounds of CCI minimag .22 LR from Cabela's. Back ordered since mid-December.

PT92

February 27, 2013, 11:13 PM

I received today 1500 rounds of CCI minimag .22 LR from Cabela's. Back ordered since mid-December.
Interesting--I too ordered basically the same stuff, same time (only Stingers instead of the Mini-Mags) and after a few days Cabela's cancelled the CCI portion of my order with no ETA or back-order option available (not implicating Cabela's for anything wrong on their end--it's the chaos we are witnessing at fault). Turned out to be a godsend though as I always wanted to try the Aguila .22lr ammo purported to rival or even exceed the ballistics of the Stingers. Honestly though, I have yet to get a chance to test the Mexican Hot Stuff ;) as I have been through a job transfer of late--but everything I have read has been quite positive so looking forward to putting some downrange via both rifles and pistols :)!

Juanlargo

February 28, 2013, 04:43 PM

I am totally frustrated by the unavailability of .22 LR, I can't find them anywhere. I hope this is temporary but I wonder if it is an economic issue since manufacturers don't make a lot on .22 cal.

PT92

February 28, 2013, 07:43 PM

I am totally frustrated by the unavailability of .22 LR, I can't find them anywhere. I hope this is temporary but I wonder if it is an economic issue since manufacturers don't make a lot on .22 cal.
Personally I think the lack of .22lr ammo is twofold:

1) The panic whereby people are buying lots of every caliber (I know guys that went to Cabela's around the Holidays looking for .223 but instead bought tons of .22lr just to shoot/practice with something).

2) The fact that more and more people (even prior to the election and mass-murders) were/are shooting lots more of the $$$CHEAP$$$ ammo simply due to lifestyle changes resulting from the deplorably BAD economy :(--The average guy anymore going forward will most likely be shooting MUCH more .22lr than say .45acp etc...

It's kind of like people that used to consistently buy Steak now buy hamburger instead--substitute .45acp here for "steak" and .22lr for "hamburger"). Our Nation is IMO becoming more and more Third-World like but I will stop here before I get booted...;)

JonnyGringo

February 28, 2013, 08:26 PM

I am totally frustrated by the unavailability of .22 LR, I can't find them anywhere. I hope this is temporary but I wonder if it is an economic issue since manufacturers don't make a lot on .22 cal.

I might need to re-chamber my new Mosquito for H2O....:D

PT92

February 28, 2013, 08:36 PM

I might need to re-chamber my new Mosquito for H2O....:D
Heck, Feinstein might add "scary-looking" water guns to the AWB...

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