While I'd debate that jobs are all equal, I would agree that for a desperate unemployed citizen any job should be better than not earning anything at all. The question there is wether that really is true in the real world and if so, how many are unable to find *any* job at all due to the presence of illegal workers?

There is a segment of the population that seem to think that illegal aliens will take jobs from citizens,

I also wonder if those who think that this is not so would still think that if they thought their job was in jeopardy

Unlikely scenario, since most of those jobs are ones most US citizens wouldn't deign to have in the first place ...

While it's probably true that a Mexican is notvery likely to steal a Corporate Lawyer's Job,you're not taking into account that someone tryingto support a family by picking fruit might feela bit more pressured, esp. if that's the onlywork to be found for a hundred miles of his home.

...doesn't even have to be an illegal alien...in some cases the migrant pickers might even bea college student on Walk-About that your bosshires for the duration of the YEARLY HARVESTwilling to work for a $1 less than you can manage on.

_________________________."...or am I a butterfly dreaming she's a woman?"

While I'd debate that jobs are all equal, I would agree that for a desperate unemployed citizen any job should be better than not earning anything at all. The question there is wether that really is true in the real world and if so, how many are unable to find *any* job at all due to the presence of illegal workers?

AP: Private prisons profit from illegal immigrants(AP) MIAMI - The U.S. is locking up more illegal immigrants than ever, generating lucrative profits for the nation's largest prison companies, and an Associated Press review shows the businesses have spent tens of millions of dollars lobbying lawmakers and contributing to campaigns.

By putting prisoners to work and paying them competitive wages, many private companies are reducing prison costs for the government by withholding earnings for taxes, room and board, Family support, and victim's compensation. Such employment also gives prisoners the skills and work experience that will prepare them for the job market when they are released.

Private business has become increasingly interested in prison labor during the past decade. Prompted by state and federal measures lifting restrictions to private sector use of prison labor, some eleven states contract out the work of an estimated 1,000 convicts. Over twenty firms, ranging from small businesses to multinational corporations, provide jobs for inmates. For instance, Best Western International, Inc, a major hotel chain, employs over thirty Arizona prison workers to operate the hotel's telephone reservation system. Since the Best Western program began in 1981, inmates have paid $182,000 in taxes, contributed over $187,000 to the state for room and board, and paid at least $112,000 in Family support. Similarly, Trans World Airlines, Inc. hires young offenders from the Ventura Center Training School in California to handle over the phone flight reservations. The inmates have paid a total of $13,000 in taxes, $15,000 for room and board, and $11,000 to victims for restitution.

In most cases, the state correctional system provides the working facility for the private firm. The firm manages and trains the inmates and releases their earnings to the care of the state. The wage rates, in most instances, are negotiated between the state agency and the private firm..:etc:.

...and that's the "Rose-Colored" Version

_________________________."...or am I a butterfly dreaming she's a woman?"

While it's probably true that a Mexican is notvery likely to steal a Corporate Lawyer's Job,you're not taking into account that someone tryingto support a family by picking fruit might feela bit more pressured, esp. if that's the onlywork to be found for a hundred miles of his home.

...doesn't even have to be an illegal alien...in some cases the migrant pickers might even bea college student on Walk-About that your bosshires for the duration of the YEARLY HARVESTwilling to work for a $1 less than you can manage on.

True, but I'm under the impression that the percentage of out-of-work citizens actually competing for those types of jobs is relatively small vs. the overall pool of Americans looking for work. Certainly some segments of job-seekers are impacted more than others, but the studies I've read/heard about show the immigrant workforce, both legal and illegal, actually has a net neutral or slightly positive effect on the job market and economy overall ... and that legalizing undocumented workers would provide additional net benefits ...

While it's probably true that a Mexican is notvery likely to steal a Corporate Lawyer's Job,you're not taking into account that someone tryingto support a family by picking fruit might feela bit more pressured, esp. if that's the onlywork to be found for a hundred miles of his home.

...doesn't even have to be an illegal alien...in some cases the migrant pickers might even bea college student on Walk-About that your bosshires for the duration of the YEARLY HARVESTwilling to work for a $1 less than you can manage on.

True, but I'm under the impression that the percentage of out-of-work citizens actually competing for those types of jobs is relatively small vs. the overall pool of Americans looking for work. Certainly some segments of job-seekers are impacted more than others, but the studies I've read/heard about show the immigrant workforce, both legal and illegal, actually has a net neutral or slightly positive effect on the job market and economy overall ... and that legalizing undocumented workers would provide additional net benefits ...

You seem to be overlooking the fact that unemploymentin this "economic down-turn" is not restricted to The US.

_________________________."...or am I a butterfly dreaming she's a woman?"

Overall figures do not necessarily affect the individual. Unless of course they become legal.

Then there is such as this.. An anecdotal case where farmers were overheard talking about how immigration had busted an onion harvest with helicopters and road vehicles converging on the spot.."who is going to pick the onions unless they are illegals?""mechanical harvesting is not viable?""no way. It all has to be done by hand."

This is in a land where all illegals have to risk drowning in a leaky boat to get here.

True, but I'm under the impression that the percentage of out-of-work citizens actually competing for those types of jobs is relatively small vs. the overall pool of Americans looking for work. Certainly some segments of job-seekers are impacted more than others, but the studies I've read/heard about show the immigrant workforce, both legal and illegal, actually has a net neutral or slightly positive effect on the job market and economy overall ... and that legalizing undocumented workers would provide additional net benefits ...

However, I take (and agree with) your point.even though my sig. other has been out of workfor the past 2 years, it had nothing to do withanyone other than his flint-hearted (ex)boss.Ted suffered a heart attack, and the bassturdcalled him back early (thus ending his disability)only to lay him off a week later so he couldcancel his insurance too.

That said, Ted was so highly skilled in his fieldthat he set the Industry ISO Standards. But pushing 60 with a pre-existing condition hasbecome a death sentence.

Yeah.. I know, "Life Sux, then you die."

Anyway, I believe there's enough work to go around in America, if the bassturds would only stop rigging the game.

_________________________."...or am I a butterfly dreaming she's a woman?"

Why is everybody blaming Our Southern Cousins(just as I consider Canadians our Northern Cousins)for a lack of jobs (INDUSTRY) that they are NOTResponsible For?

Ted's Job was ultimately shipped to CHINA! The people should be pisssed that "PINHEAD INC."was responsible for putting us into Crushing Debtto finance TWO Unnecessary Wars "on the dime"for which Pres, Obama is now forced to tap-dancearound to appease the country that owns us tokeep them from calling in the loans?

Now the unemployed are being manipulated intoblaming Mexico for their dire straits? WTF?

Even the greedy SOBs that used Tax Loopholesby putting Americans out of work by openingSweat-Shops South of the Border grew fat whilethe workers starved, and still had to take theirchances by crossing the borders...

"Rigged Game" indeed

The only justice so far is that Ted's millionaireex-boss who outsourced his specialized skilloverseas is in the process of losing his familybusiness due to the Law Suits rolling in everyday from American's suffering from the inferiormaterials being implanted in their bodies.

While I'd debate that jobs are all equal, I would agree that for a desperate unemployed citizen any job should be better than not earning anything at all. The question there is wether that really is true in the real world and if so, how many are unable to find *any* job at all due to the presence of illegal workers?

You do not live in the real world if you have to ask the question.

Hmmm ... most of the articles and reports regarding illegal workers I've seen (some here, here, and here) show a net neutral if not slight beneficial impact to the overall workforce and economy. Which isn't to say some segments aren't impacted (employment for males w/o a high school diploma seem to be hardest hit, for example), but the overall economy and employment appear to benefit somewhat ...

... And lest you think the answer so obvious the question needn't even be asked, even this Fox News article feels the need to present two sides of the debate ...

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