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Topic: I got it!!! (Read 3162 times)

Lets review. God came down from heaven in the form of Jesus and died for our sins. Now, I wouldnt consider this a sacrifice at all because being god he cannot really die... or can he. Lets take Christians at their word that God did sacrifice himself, in my eyes that would mean that he did actually die and the only way its a sacrifice is if he couldnt come back. This would also explain why there seems to be no evidence that he exists today but he used to interact with people.

Could be. Now obviously this answer doesnt help prove he ever existed nor does it deal with problems with the bible.

You might have something there. He may have thought getting crucified was a piece of cake or something. Kind of like rednecks whose last words are "Hey, watch this!"

In modern times, you loose a lot of street cred when you die, but who knows how important stuff like that was 2,000 years ago. So if "Psst, hey kid, wake up" didn't work, the guys might have just hidden the body and slinked off into the sunset, feeling a bit sheepish but not wanting to admit publicly that their lord and savior couldn't handle a few spikes.

Yea, he might not ever have existed, but it's kind of fun thinking that maybe he did. After all, he made us in his image. Which means he was a dork too. And hence quite capable to being late for his own resurrection.

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Anyone can beat around the bush. But unless you have permission from the bush, you probably shouldn't.

Even though I do believe in God, I don't think "my God" is the God people pray to these days. Because of this, I really do understand the frustration people tend to have about religion and God. And by the way (the other one), english =! from my 1st language, so I’m sorry if I mess up a bit, but I do believe people here are smart enough to understand what I am trying to say.

But where are my manners?! I failed to introduce myself @ the intro forum, so allow me to do it very quickly now.

Hi there! I go by the name of Otium Dies these days, and I like to think. Specially about consciousness, the mind, intelligent life throughout the cosmos and about many aspects of different societies of the past 5 thousand years. Also I’ll refrain myself from any attempt of trying to change anyones mind about anything. I’m here to exchange points of view, not because I don’t believe in God, but because I do believe we can learn some truth from any discussion, even if what was learned is not directly related to the subject of the discussion. That said, why won't God heal amputees? Here is my single cent on it:

I closed my eyes, and they stay closed for some while. I try not to think about anything! Only darkness, pitch black! Black is all I see, and there is no sound. I’m God back then now. What to do? What to do now?

I’ll create an insanely immense and incredibly complex cosmos out of this blacked void. This unmeasurable space I’ve just created, full of properties that can’t yet be used because is empty will be good to my children. So now I’ll carefully craft what they on earth will call matter. I’ll engineer vasts amounts of this matter that one day will be seen by all my children from all corners of this humongous space. Now that I have this matter I’ll carefully blow all of it in a complex and special way so it can later form a huge amount of celestial bodies that will serve as home to all my children. I still have my eyes closed, but now I can see my cosmos, and it is beautiful, and because of the super complex properties I gave to matter, now, darkness gave way to light.

Now that I have my universe in place, that all that matter I’ve created formed celestial bodies that are ready to be hosts to my children, I’ll create them. I’ll start with “some” children scattered throughout the vastness of my cosmos. This children in turn will create more children. As my universe grows old, I can see my children all over that space. Some know others, some have not yet had contact. All my children! I am the father of all.

Ok, I’ll now drop the God like status, and point that what most people do is ask. Ask ask and ask some more. In my point of view, they fail to ask themselves this: “If i’m not worthy the company of all the peoples I know (and that’s a certainty, someone somewhere don’t like you for a good reason), how can I be worthy of God’s company?”

I can’t express in words what God did, the above is so minuscule and incomplete, it is almost irresponsible. But nevertheless God did ALL that for us, his children. For all of them, not only prepotent humans.

It is impossible, but after reading the above, and performing all those steps as “God”, put yourself in His shoes one final time. After all that, all that “trouble” you went as God to make this immense thing we call universe, what do you expect from your child?

A loud THANK YOU for being alive Father. Thank you for giving me your consciousness and thank you for irradiate my mind to allow me to know of your existence. Thank you Father.

Maybe... just maybe, to God, that limb that was lost does not stop you from attaining eternal life and claiming your mind’s eternal place in the cosmos. And this is one of my beliefs. That while alive, we have a connection with God, not mind, mind is you, but consciousness, which is that thing that say to you “man, don’t jump from the 3rd floor, or you might get hurt” or “Do not harm this person”, but then mind rationalize things and shit happens. Following this idea, I believe eternity must be attained.

And since I;m the first one to post in this post that thinks the “other way” I’ll take some time to comment on my fellow blog buddies posts.

Quote from: The Gawd

Now, I wouldnt consider this a sacrifice at all because being god he cannot really die... or can he.

As far I can see, and by now I can see pretty far, It was a humongous sacrifice The Gawd, Crucification was, even to Roman standards THE most cruel punishment one can suffer.

Cicero, the mind that needs no further introduction said this about it: "the very mention of the cross should be far removed not only from a Roman citizen’s body, but from his mind, his eyes, his ears."

People usually succumb in hours to the cross, but he stayed alive and suffered for so long that they had to “put him out”. Not to mention the humiliation, and all the many harsh punishments applied before he was crucified. No man, if that really took place, I believe indeed was a hell of a sacrifice.

In Microsoft Windows when we select a file and hit the "Delete" button, the file is no longer available for use. Press "Shift" and "Delete" the file is entirely removed from the hard disk[1] JC "Dying" is just a temporary unavailability, not a sacrifice. "Shift + Die", that would have been a sacrifice.

As for the pain, shame and all the jazz, there are several other deities, demi-gods and real people who have endured more and worse. So, again no big deal.

People usually succumb in hours to the cross, but he stayed alive and suffered for so long that they had to “put him out”. Not to mention the humiliation, and all the many harsh punishments applied before he was crucified. No man, if that really took place, I believe indeed was a hell of a sacrifice.

In that wiki article, a man named Mithridates was kept alive for 17 days. There is no comparison. Jesus had a bad weekend.

BTW, welcome to the forum OtiumDies

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Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

I am pleased at that. One of Olivianus' many unlovable traits was Dog Latin. On his site he had "Articuli Fidei". I guess he wanted to say Articles of Faith but that is Articuli Fides or De Articulis Fides or Articulorum Fides. What he wrote was Articles for Faith.

I’m God back then now. What to do? What to do now? I’ll create an insanely immense and incredibly complex cosmos out of this blacked void. This unmeasurable space I’ve just created, full of properties that can’t yet be used because is empty will be good to my children.

I don't see where you would get the idea of what a "child" was if you had no experience.

You'd make a better story if you said this wasn't His first try at a universe.

@JeffPT, yeah man, I had a much better text almost done, and chrome crashed on me. I got lazy and scribscrabed, and it came out fail.

The thing is, want to connect with God, try to thank, not ask. To be honest, I'm in the process of changing myself to do that. I'll let you know if it works. About facts, simply THERE ARE NONE! That's why we are here discussing. Mary on a piece of toast is no fact. There are none. What I did imagine and tried to explain, and of course failed, is that you've been given an unique opportunity, you have nothing more to ask, only to give, and all you can give is thanks.

@Historicity Dog latin was great! lmao! Maybe you can help me out and give me the proper term. But back to the subject, I don't see why not. If men can invent a wheel that never was, why can a God create a being that never was? Following your argument, I can even say that he created us on his own image, maybe because he had no idea what a child was.

You have a better shot if you say "If JKR wrote Harry Potter that never was ..."

If he created us (men) in his own image, why do we look so different? Why are there races?

And in whose image did he create a woman?

Indeed it does not seem logical. But maybe that god, the one we got our image from is not the God who created the cosmos.

And considering that the peoples of antiquity were really rough and unpolished they had to use language that they, the commoners, could understand. The image I believe is head, torso, 2 legs, two arms. In other words, god is not a hydra with 15 heads.

Of course, I'm considering the basic assumption that the sumerians got it right. And the one who manipulated us into being were really a biped entity or being, or god whatever you want to call it. If we are on his own image I don't believe it was God, if it was, the sumerians got it wrong and we are not in his image.

Considering we have been created, not by darwinism methods, don't that seem logical?

@Historicity Dog latin was great! lmao! Maybe you can help me out and give me the proper term.

I was complimenting your use of Latin. Otium dies correctly means Business for Today or The Day's Work.

Dog Latin is a general term for intentional or unintentional bad Latin from English speaking people. One of the most common is to impose Spanish grammar on Latin. Hence I've seen an artist title his picture of the Last Supper and "Ultima Cena De Jesus". A historical article about a man in 1600s England quoted a doctor's diary. The article corrected the English to modern spelling but came to a phrase where the doctor used the custom of expurgation by Latin to say the man had an STD. The text in the article said, "He was ill pro sus amores". That would have to have been pro suis amoribus. The English were notably bad Latinists so the amores for amoribus error is possible but sus is a Spanish word only.

One of the worst examples of Dog Latin is in the US Army. There's an intelligence unit whose motto is Sentinels of Security. Someone was ordered to translate that into Latin. One trouble is that the Romans didn't have a noun for a sentinal. They would say a man was on guard duty but not that he was some thing. The adjective vigil could be used. The other trouble is that while security is a Latin derived word, the Romans did not use it as a euphemism for secrecy. So the translator tried the word salus which has a lot of meanings in Latin. But its primary meaning is health.

So the result, Vigiles Salutis, would really mean "They are Watchful of Health".

Another example is the state motto of West Virginia. They wanted to say "Mountain Men are Always Free". They translated it as Montani Semper Liberi. However while liberus means a free man, the plural has the idiomatic meaning of children. So the motto would equally translate back into English as "Mountain Men are Always Children". They should have used the singular and made it Montanus Semper Liberus.

There's an interesting word study. "Free" is from a Germanic root meaning happy as in German frohlich. Liberus is from the old Latin verb lubere meaning to love. Libido meaning sex drive was from the same root and had the older form lubido.

So to the Germans freedom was happiness and to the Romans freedom was love.

I haven't found a confirmation of a source but I once read that the early theologian (later heretic) Tertullian addressed the subject of fossils. Fossils of prehistoric monsters have been found in Europe for thousands of years. I have read the some town halls in Germany would have the skull of a dragon. It would turn out to be from a cave bear or a wooly mammoth.

You'd think that such monsters were worth a mention in the Bible. Tertullian explained that the fossils were never alive. They were prototypes. God sort of put together the skeleton and then (chatting with the angels) said, "Naw, this tyrannosaur idea is never going to work" and buried the skeleton.

BTW, the line in the Bible "Let us make man in Our own image" is taken by Christians to be a reference to the Trinity. But Jews say God was addressing the Court of Heaven, that is, the angels. I can't confirm it but it seems that implies that as a director of a film is treated as the creator tho he assigns work to a lot of crew members, that likewise God assigned creation duties to angels.

But I have to ask you. What would be the functional, measurable difference in outcome if you were to thank God instead of asking for things? Whether God does or does not exist, thanking Him seems a bit pointless in terms of knowing whether or not it's there.

You know, when you thank God for things, if God isn't real, you are just talking to yourself. Interestingly enough, when you ask God for things, the same thing applies.

Maybe... just maybe, to God, that limb that was lost does not stop you from attaining eternal life and claiming your mind’s eternal place in the cosmos. And this is one of my beliefs.

Cool. Presumably you also believe that no other prayers for anything work either? If you can still make eternal life without a leg or an arm, then how much easier is it to acheive without your keys? Or with a bad headache? And how much MORE annoying for god to be bothered with such comparative trivia!

So your point is that god never answers prayers FOR anything. No problem.....but you do realise you are in a very significant minority of believers?

I closed my eyes, and they stay closed for some while. I try not to think about anything! Only darkness, pitch black! Black is all I see, and there is no sound. I’m God back then now. What to do? What to do now?

I’ll create an insanely immense and incredibly complex cosmos out of this blacked void.

Hold it right there. "Creation" is an event. An event has two things - a location and a time. Since you are God living "outside of time and space" you cannot "create."

Nice try though.

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Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. - Martin Luther

"What good fortune for those in power that people do not think." - Hitler