OKLAHOMA CITY, Okla. — A committee of the Oklahoma House of Representatives has advanced a bill that would allow for the display of the Ten Commandments in public buildings and on the grounds of such facilities.

H.B. 2177, introduced by Rep. John Bennett, R-Sallisaw, passed the House General Government, Oversight and Accountability nearly unanimously with a vote of 7-1 on Thursday. It recognizes the impact of certain documents on American history.

“Every county, municipality, city, town, school or any other political subdivision is authorized to display, in its public buildings and on its grounds, replicas of historical documents including, but not limited to, the Ten Commandments, Magna Carta, Mayflower Compact, Declaration of Independence, United States Constitution, Bill of Rights, Oklahoma Constitution and other historically significant documents in the form of statues, monuments, memorials, tablets or any other display that respects the dignity and solemnity of such documents,” it reads in part.

The bill also authorizes the attorney general’s office to defend the constitutionality of the display should it be challenged in court.

According to Tulsa World, Bennett said in introducing the legislation that the Ten Commandments have “impacted American law and culture with a force similar only to that of the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.”

Other religions, such as Islam or Satanism, would not be included because they did not play a role in the founding of the nation.

The move appears to serve as a means to restore the Ten Commandments to the state capitol after it was removed in October 2015 following a ruling from the Oklahoma Supreme Court.

As previously reported, the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) of Oklahoma was at the helm of the legal effort to have the monument removed, as it asserted that the placement of the Decalogue on the grounds of the state capitol building was unconstitutional.

The lead plaintiff in the case was liberal minister Bruce Prescott, the director of Mainstream Oklahoma Baptists.

Last April, following the removal of the monument and a determination among some to have it restored, lawmakers approved a resolution to place the Ten Commandments controversy on the Oklahoma ballot. But the resolution was rejected by voters in November 57 to 42 percent.

As previously reported, the 2005 U.S. Supreme Court decision of Van Orden v. Perry, which upheld a Ten Commandments monument at the Texas state capitol, noted that Decalogue displays are “common throughout America.”

“We need only look within our own courtroom,” the justices wrote. “Since 1935, Moses has stood, holding two tablets that reveal portions of the Ten Commandments written in Hebrew, among other lawgivers in the south frieze.”

“Similar acknowledgments can be seen throughout a visitor’s tour of our nation’s capital. For example, a large statue of Moses holding the Ten Commandments, alongside a statue of the Apostle Paul, has overlooked the rotunda of the Library of Congress’ Jefferson Building since 1897,” the decision continued. “And the Jefferson Building’s Great Reading Room contains a sculpture of a woman beside the Ten Commandments with a quote above her from the Old Testament (Micah 6:8).”

“A medallion with two tablets depicting the Ten Commandments decorates the floor of the national archives,” the court outlined. “Inside the Department of Justice, a statue entitled “The Spirit of Law” has two tablets representing the Ten Commandments lying at its feet. In front of the Ronald Reagan Building is another sculpture that includes a depiction of the Ten Commandments.”

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Grace Kim Kwon

Yes!! The Ten Commandments are the foundation of the Christian Western civilization’s lawfulness thus of the USA as well! America, keep your foundation for-ever which is vital and true and excellent.

antifasciste

And the Ten Commandments are paraphrased excerpts of the Code of Hummarabi, so they could erect a monument to the original source.

tatoo

Right. It is against the law to commit adultry. No, it is not. Worshipping graven images. No, the Catholics do it all the time. Honor you father and mother? No. Coventry your neighbors ass? Hell, no.

Amos Moses

” It is against the law to commit adultry. No, it is not.” ……oooppppsss …. guess you missed on that ………..

1. Arizona

Getting it on with someone other than your spouse is a Class 3 misdemeanor here, punishable by up to 30 days behind bars. And not only will the spouse be penalized but also the other person (now that’s justice!).

2. Florida

In a place where bathing suits are the dress code, how can eyes not wander? Still, he should keep his hands to himself: Floridian adulterers can spend up to two months in jail and be charged up to $500.

3. Kansas

“Intercourse or sodomy” with someone other than your spouse is a Class C misdemeanor here, punishable by up to a month in jail and a fine of up to $500. Remember, Kansas couples: There’s no place like home.

4. Illinois

Frank Sinatra probably wouldn’t consider Chicago “His Kind of Town” if he knew about this state law. The consequences for adultery in Illinois is up to a year in jail for both cheaters.

5. Massachusetts

Straying in the Bay State is a wicked bad idea. It’s considered a felony with a fine of up to $500 and a jail sentence of up to three years.

6. Oklahoma

If Oklahoma native Dr. Phil’s anti-cheating advice doesn’t persuade him, perhaps this will: Not only do adulterers face fines of up to $500 but also incarceration for up to five years.

7. Idaho

The penalty for cheating in Idaho is no small potatoes: Adultery is a felony that comes with a fine of up to $1,000 and as much as three years in jail.

8. Michigan

It’s a felony and a Class H offense to two-time your spouse here, but the price for your crime is “jail or other intermediate sanction,” according to the State of Michigan Sentencing Guideline Manual. With an unclear consequence like that, it’s not worth it to succumb to temptation.

9. Wisconsin

Cheating cheeseheads better be rich. Those caught may need to cough up a whopping $10,000. Oh, and the possible three years behind bars doesn’t sound fun, either.

10. Minnesota

The law for adultery in Minnesota is just as cold as the state itself. If you’re caught cheating, you can be fined up to $3,000 and imprisoned for as long as a year.

11. Utah

We’re not sure how the state’s famous polygamists are free men, but infidelity can land you a sentence of up to 6 months with a fine of up to $1,000.

12. New York

Sleeping around in the city that never sleeps, or anywhere else in the Empire State, for that matter, could result in as long as 3 months of jail time.

13. Mississippi

Vow-breakers better pray the system treats its inmates to Southern hospitality. The Mississippi statutes say that cheaters “shall be fined in any sum not more than $500 each, and imprisoned in the county jail not more than six months.”

14. Georgia

Be a peach to your partner to avoid a fine of up to $1,000 or a jail sentence of up to a year.

15. South Carolina

Cheating here can send you to the slammer for anywhere from six months to a year, or could get you a fine between $500 to $1,000.

16. North Carolina

This southern state isn’t as hard on their cheaters. The unfaithful spend no more than 30 days in lockup.

Bob Johnson

In Nevada the brothels are open on Sunday.

Amos Moses

and this surprises whom ……….

SFBruce

Do you have any evidence that any of these laws have been enforced in the last 20 years? It’s not hard to find arcane, rarely enforced laws on the books.

Amos Moses

Does not make any difference ….. they are still on the books and are law ….. and destroys the statement that it is not against the law ……….. in a certain number of states ……….

TheLastHonestLawyer

It’s still against the law to plow a field with an elephant in South Carolina. A law which dates back to the early 20th century and circus publicity stunts. State legal codes are filled with old laws that are no longer enforced, usually because the courts declared them unconstitutional.

Ambulance Chaser

The jury is still out on whether adultery is viable as a crime in today’s world.

However, since it’s only on the books in 24 states, apparently the Ten Commandments are NOT the foundation of American law. Not all of America can agree on which Commandments need to be legislated.

TwoRutRoad

Could you plead guilty to a lesser charge of aggravated coveting?

Ambulance Chaser

Okay, which Commandments are laws?

Grace Kim Kwon

All of them are.

Ambulance Chaser

Really? It’s illegal not to keep the Sabbath Day holy? What’s the punishment for skipping church on Sunday? Is it a misdemeanor or a felony?

Grace Kim Kwon

Don’t do business on Sunday. Americans started becoming greedy abandoning families and honor after starting bussinesses on Sunday. You guys can never beat the Hebrews on excellence.

TwoRutRoad

Doctors, police, firefighters, power company employees? What would happen if they didn’t work on Sunday?

Trilemma

There is no law that requires Americans to keep the Sabbath which is Saturday not Sunday.

Grace Kim Kwon

Sunday is the new Sabbath worship day in the A.D. era. All Americans used to close everything and go to church on Sunday. Many rest still on Sunday today. Man needs one day off a week to function properly.

Trilemma

The Sabbath of the Ten Commandments is Saturday. Nowhere in the Bible is that changed. If American needs the Ten Commandments then America needs to keep the Sabbath on Saturday as commanded in the Bible.

Grace Kim Kwon

AD is the new era. Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday and the Holy Spirit came on Sunday, giving birth to the Church. Europe and USA are a Christendom, not Israel. Keep the Lord’s Day(Sunday) holy as the Sabbath.

Trilemma

Then they are not obeying the Ten Commandments. Early Christians observed the Sabbath on Saturday and then assembled on Sunday.

Grace Kim Kwon

Men do not need two resting days a week. The Church understood that Sunday has become the new Sabbath Day to worship God as Jesus has intended so.

Trilemma

It’s fine to set aside a day for rest. But if you want to do it in accordance with the Ten Commandments you have to do it on the day God chose for you and not the day you choose.

Grace Kim Kwon

God has chosen Sunday as the New Covenant era by raising His Son and sending His Spirit on Sunday. True Christians worship God and live for Him everyday anyway.

Trilemma

Nowhere in the Bible does God change the Sabbath to Sunday for Christians. The first Christians continued to keep the Sabbath on Saturday. But after a couple of hundred years they chose to change their Sabbath to Sunday when they realized the Ten Commandments didn’t apply to them.

Grace Kim Kwon

You are wrong. The Apostles changed it; the Church worshipped God on Sunday under them and they are the ones through whom the Holy Spirit gave mankind the New Testament Bible.

Sharon_at_home

The bible does not identify any specific day of the week as the Sabbath. The Muslims use Friday; the Jews use Saturday, and the Christians use Sunday as their Sabbath.

Chris

Actually I think you’ll find that Genesis identifies Saturday as the Sabbath.

Grace Kim Kwon

The Gospels and Acts changed that, and God’s people the Church knew it from the start.

Grace Kim Kwon

Sunday is the correct Lord’s Day this era because God raised His Son and sent His Spirit on Sunday.

TwoRutRoad

What about the cops, doctors and firefighters, etc? Please explain what we do without them.

johndoe

Again, you have no idea

Grace Kim Kwon

You guys are traitors against your own Christian ancestors. All you got is your filthy money on a dying planet and not even proper children; they will talk about how USA went down by betraying the Lord like the evil ancient Israel did. Read the Book of Isaiah and Revelation.

Michael C

Read the first of the Ten Commandments.

Now read the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

Notice how the latter violates the former?

Grace Kim Kwon

Read your national anthems and pledges and founding documents and independence documents and money bills. Americans submit to God alone and to no one else especially Sodomites or atheists; those documents are the foundations of the US Constitution. Constitutions are classroom-rules and not the heart. Secular Americans are aliens from outer space firmly determined to destroy the USA from its foundation. If you guys don’t keep your sane conscience, the nation will be gone like Sodom. Immigrate to North Korea or Cuba and leave the Christian USA alone.

Michael C

Oh, oh. Oh. Okay. We’re just gonna ignore what I said. Okay.

Grace Kim Kwon

USA needs the Ten Commandments to live properly. That was the point. Look at today’s USA without the Ten Commandments. Just hedonism’s dystopia. You guys should worry over your own godless empire seriously.

Cady555

I am doing just fine without commandments against graven images. In fact, I seem to be doing better than most self proclaimed followers of Jesus who would happily let refugees die and kick people out of their homes and separate them from their families.

I have no interest in acting like a christian.

Grace Kim Kwon

President Trump is simply trying to protect all Americans and re-establish order and lawfulness in the land. Liberals are the ones who try to endanger all Americans so that the USA would become un-governable and chaotic. Liberal men do not care about anyone’s safety.

Cady555

What she does, she does well.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen Grace make a relevant and meaningful response to any comment ever.

SFBruce

The first four are blatantly unconstitutional.

Ambulance Chaser

Well, would be if someone tried to pass a law to compel people to follow them.

Grace Kim Kwon

You must follow Judeo-Christian values even if you don’t believe, to stay civilized. The West commits human rights abuses by forcing and funding infanticide and sexual immorality and mental illness. You guys need Christian principles to be normal and humane both then and now. Your ancestors were average racists but not baby-killers or sexual pervs. Modern secularists are worse than any previous generations in doing evil. It’s disasterous to see the fattened spoiled kids slandering the honest slender hard-working generations of yesteryears. And the well-fed rich pervs forcing homosexuality upon the poor nations are unacceptable. The West and its mental slaves are just lawless apart from Christian virtues.

Rus Shore

Grace, you’re kidding killed by logic here. WE DON’T HAVE TO FOLLOW YOUR RULES. Get that through your thick skull.

Audiophile

Bash those women, big man.

Rus Shore

I didn’t threaten her or say anything about gender in any way. Grow up.

Grace Kim Kwon

You guys are being bad descendants, shaming all your normal white Christian ancestors. Sorry if you did not have decent good parents, but that doesn’t excuse you Americans to attack Christianity your only sane conscience. You guys watch nudity and have drinking parties and cussing all the time and that’s why you’ve become bad. The USA was created to spread the Christian religion and you guys should leave the USA if you so hate Christianity.

Audiophile

You appear to be pssy-whipped. No wonder you resent women.

Rus Shore

Someone has gone mental…..

TwoRutRoad

The bible sure bashes women. It always amazes me that women are Christians. Why do they put up with it?

Audiophile

More women than men attend church. Globally, that amounts to billions of women. Obviously you don’t respect the choice those billions of women make and are trying to impose your opinion on them. If they like church and choose to attend, that is none of your business. You are the one bashing women, taking the position that they should think like you, a gay man.

Stop meddling in other people’s business. You atheists insist on meddling, and it’s sickening.

TwoRutRoad

My kids and ex-wife might have a different opinion about me being a gay man. Even if I were, it’s none of your business.

It was the religion I was bashing, not the women. I hardly imposed anything on them…I simply made an observation and expressed an opinion.

Talk about meddling…isn’t it the church who tells people who they can sleep with, what to eat, etc.? And don’t they try to push their religion on others? It’s sickening. Remember, atheists are on the defensive, fighting back against the religion that is being forced upon us in government and in schools.

Audiophile

Gay man telling women what they ought to believe. Mind your own business. Let women make their own decisions. Women can learn nothing at all from homosexuals except how to sleep around and end up as lonely old maids.

Grace Kim Kwon

I never imagined myself to be attacked by Americans for upholding the Ten Commandments. Bad descendants.

Grace Kim Kwon

You are wrong. Americans need Christian rules; Non-Christian USA forces infanticide and Sodomy upon the nations using blood money and all its filthy power. You guys need Christianity to get cured of mental illness.

Grace Kim Kwon

You are wrong. You’ve got a false Nazi education from the godless liberals. The first four are the very foundation of the United States of America. Pagans have no concept of human rights or equality or freedom, and the humanists only massacre the babies while the their nations are cursed and dying from childlessness. Atheists pollute both the planet and the youth. Americans would have been illiterate savages like the rest of mankind if they had no Christian church. Be thankful to the Church for keeping you civilized. USA is a mere mega Sodom if it has no Christianity.

Grace Kim Kwon

The Western nations are founded by Christianity. Why don’t you Americans read your own founding documents and national anthems and pledge and money bills? They all tell Americans honor and trust in the God of the Holy Bible. Non-Americans should leave America and immigrate to other nations as they wish. Atheists only destroy; they never create any nations.

TheKingOfRhye

*facepalm*

Grace Kim Kwon

Stop bullying. All of you. American men don’t bully a woman; bullying is not American virtue, okay? Live like George Washington and Abraham Lincoln if you know who they are. Do as your noble forefathers taught you.

TwoRutRoad

Stop bullying? We aren’t bullying, we’re fighting back. We will gladly back off when the Christians stop beating us over the head with their bibles and forcing that nonsense on our children.

Sharon_at_home

If you feel that way why do you come to Christian page? Wouldn’t it be wiser to stay away if you don’t like being troubled by our values and beliefs?

TwoRutRoad

That’s a legitimate question, Sharon.

There are many reasons, but I guess it boils down to this: Reason needs to conquer wishful thinking. Some people coming here may be confused about the conflict between what their brain tells them and what the bible tells them. They might feel afraid and alone. When they come to sites like this, maybe they’ll understand that they are not alone, and that critical thinking is better than blindly accepting silly stories about talking snakes, talking donkeys, how to beat you slave, or any of the other questionable bible material.

I must add, though, that I really got tired of people telling me I was going to burn in hell. This happened at work a lot. Eventually, when they got to know me, I’d ask them if they still felt I deserved to go to hell, and they always say no.

TheKingOfRhye

You apparently don’t have a clue what “bullying” is. Disagreeing with someone, and telling them they’re wrong is NOT bullying. If it was, you’d be just as guilty of it, or more so, than me.

And you are just factually wrong here, when you said all of the Ten Commandments are US laws. At best, three are right now. Maybe four, if like some point out, you count the adultery laws that some states have, but rarely enforce if ever. There has never been a time inn American history when ALL of them have been law.

Grace Kim Kwon

You guys have come to me by a bunch; that’s why. Don’t do that. American laws are based on the Ten Commandments. The US constitution guarantees the religious freedom that grants everyone to worship God freely which is possible only by the Judeo-Christian values, and no American praises adultery and the men at fault indeed suffer the legal consequences. You guys should stop thinking the Western lawfulness came out of nowhere; it’s from the Holy Bible. Americans are not illiterate barbarians only because they had Christianity.

TheKingOfRhye

We just provided you with a bunch of examples how US laws are NOT based on the Ten Commandments, yet you’re not even going to address any of that, instead you just assert again that they are.

And your definition of religious freedom is incomplete, by the way. It should be more like “freedom to worship God freely, or worship some other god or gods, or not worship at all.”

Anyway, the FIRST commandment is “no gods before me”….how is that supporting religious freedom?

Grace Kim Kwon

You don’t notice anything because you never read the Holy Bible. Read it to see how much your Christian ancestors took from it. Europeans and Americans were mostly Christians or Christianity-respectors that the Founders did not need to think complicatedly. If you don’t worship God, such treason brought national calamities upon Israel, but that is not the case in the Christian era. The Reformers understood that faith is of willing individuals; thus religious freedom was born.

The Founders did not include Christian morality in the US Constitution, expecting all Americans to be Christian-civilized and respect Christianity properly anyway. Today’s blaspheming destructive godless militant atheist Americans were nothing possible to exist for then-Americans’ mind. Today’s US Constitution needs to add Christian morality before the nation gets wrecked with chaotic immorality further.

TheKingOfRhye

I honestly don’t have a clue to how you think “religious freedom” means what you seem to think it does.

Grace Kim Kwon

Religious freedom is to let Christians live out the Holy Bible according to a clear conscience and follow their lead. When Christians do not have complete freedom, human rights abuses happen by barbarisms or atheism or Sodomism by mobs or/and authorities, as observed throughout the history and in the current world. No Bible = No concept of human rights or freedom. Men by instinct do not value each other’s life unless they get educated by Christianity.

Bezukhov

I keep telling you I have an Idol representing Jupiter that I worship daily. I haven’t been arrested for that yet. Come to think about I break the first 4 out of that ten on a regular basis. No one’s called the cops on me.

Cady555

Um… No. Sorry. There is no law that says I can only worship your preferred deity. There are no laws prescribing how I must worship your preferred deity (honoring the special days, no graven images, etc.)

There are no laws saying I cannot call my parents stupid (they aren’t, but that doesn’t change the legality of saying so). Adultery is legal. Lying, except under oath, is legal. (“Do these pants make my butt look big?” “No. Absolutely not”. That is still legal.) Greed is legal and the basis of our economy.

Murder and Theft. I don’t need some archaic list of commandments planted on government property to remind me not to steal or murder. If you do, I suggest an immediate mental health check up.

Grace Kim Kwon

You secular Westerners don’t worship anything other than yourself no matter what you claim to believe; selfism is your only filthy religion. Stop claiming a religion and insult others including Jupiter. No group is perv hedonistic and comedy-addicted like Ex-christian Westerners are. What you claim that you can do is all evil doing and a lawlessness. You guys won’t be cured of mental illness of being too well-fed unless you repent of your sins. Read John chapter 3.

Rus Shore

You’re mental, Grace. Seriously.

Grace Kim Kwon

No, you liberal perv-oriented white people should stop forcing your sick immorality upon the world. No slavery. Never again. Learn to be ashemed of sins if you guys are humans at all. You guys have no morality at all after losing Christianity. Eastern Europeans are saying sane things about you nowadays.

TwoRutRoad

The commandments have a redundancy problem. Committing adultery is just acting out your covetousness, and is therefore covered in Commandment number 10.

james blue

Totally unconstitutional.

Oboehner

Sure, because you say so or whatever…

Ambulance Chaser

No, because the Supreme Court says so.

Grace Kim Kwon

Sodom’s SCOTUS means not a thing. God rules the world and He is coming back to punish the Sodomic West. You must repent of your sins to get saved. Read John chapter 3.

Ambulance Chaser

If SCOTUS rulings “mean not a thing,” why are there consequences for breaking them?

Grace Kim Kwon

SCOTUS disagree with each other. Liberals must not dominate because they just create a Sodom. Nazi Germany was a legal outcome by the people, too. The West including the USA always needs Christian principles to do what is good and right.

People disagreeing with you and your crazy take on, well, everything, is not bullying. If you can’t stand honest debate, go cry elsewhere.

Grace Kim Kwon

I wasn’t talking to you. Yes, you guys are bullies, coming to one person by a bunch. Admit that.

TheLastHonestLawyer

You are posting in an open comment thread, so yes, you are talking to me.

It’s not bullying. No threats have been made, no attempts to force you to leave, just people calling you on your horrendously bad grasp of history and religion.

Grace Kim Kwon

“I feel bullied by you, so you are bullying me.” This is the logic the liberals use against the conservatives all the time. Now how do you feel? Would you now value objective truths? You guys are the wrong ones on history and religion.

Rus Shore

Wait…. Did you really say that SCOTUS rulings have no meaning, then try to uphold Washington and Lincoln – two men who very much believed in the three branches of government??? You’re a joke!

Grace Kim Kwon

Today’s America is diffirent; once-the-noble-Christendom is a toxic shameful Sodom today. Founding Fathers did not have to mention morality as a law because all Americans were expected to be Christian-moral and Christian-civilized. God destroys every Sodom. Read Jude chapter 1. The USA has become bad by having everything for decades and because of public nudism and drinking parties and inclination to abnormal immorality, wasting God’s blessings.

Grace Kim Kwon

Stop bullying. Act like an American man such as George Washington and Abraham Lincoln.

Trilemma

Why do you believe Washington and Lincoln didn’t bully anyone?

Grace Kim Kwon

Both Washington and Lincoln were honest Christian men, and the former fought against the British bullies and the latter freed slaves. If you don’t like them, leave USA and immigrate to North Korea your own atheist dystopia as you wish.

TheLastHonestLawyer

The Emancipation Proclamation didn’t free a single slave in the United States. It specifically limited the order to slaves in the states currently in rebellion. It was an unenforceable order designed to encourage slaves in the South to rise up in rebellion.

Slavery ended in the US with the ratification of the 13th Amendment, which came after Lincoln’s death.

Grace Kim Kwon

Britain and their colonies including USA are the only nations that fought against and actively abolished slavery without outsiders interfering. Officially or non-officially, slavery has been always a normal practice for all mankind elsewhere. Bible-reading slaves never stay as a slave.

All your lists are Christian nations except for Turkey, China, and Iran. And those 3 nations still have no complete human rights and freedom. The Muslims never give equal rights to infidels. China had to abolish women’s foot-binding after being educated by the Christian West not to. Western women never suffered anything comparing to world’s women. You secular Westerners know nothing about the world, being thoroughly spoiled by the civilized Church.

TheLastHonestLawyer

Lady, Turkey has enjoyed religious freedom for centuries. Beginning with Mehmet II in 1453, the Ottoman Empire recognized the rights of different religions to practice freely and enjoy the protections of Ottoman rule. When Mustafa Kemal led the creation of the Turkish Republic, he enshrined religious freedom in the Turkish Constitution:

Article 24: Freedom of Religion and Conscience

c1. Everyone has the right to freedom of conscience, religious belief and conviction.
c2. Acts of worship, religious services, and ceremonies shall be conducted freely, provided that they do not violate the provisions of Article 14.
c3. No one shall be compelled to worship, or to participate in religious ceremonies and rites, to reveal religious beliefs and convictions, or be blamed or accused because of his religious beliefs and convictions.
c4. Education and instruction in religion and ethics shall be conducted under state supervision and control. Instruction in religious culture and moral education shall be compulsory in the curricula of primary and secondary schools. Other religious education and instruction shall be subject to the individual’s own desire, and in the case of minors, to the request of their legal representatives.
c5. No one shall be allowed to exploit or abuse religion or religious feelings, or things held sacred by religion, in any manner whatsoever, for the purpose of personal or political influence, or for even partially basing the fundamental, social, economic, political, and legal order of the state on religious tenets.

Grace Kim Kwon

You are dreaming. Turkey never exercised religious freedom to this day. Having a constitution means nothing; nations don’t follow it just as this century’s Sodomic USA does not. They have humane constitutions to get some Western money.

TheLastHonestLawyer

I’ve been to Istanbul, and was able to tour both the Church of St. George, an amazing Greek Orthodox church, and the Ahrida Synagogue, which has been in constant use since about 1460.

Turkey full religious freedom, and has since 1453. Those are facts.

Tell me, when was the last time you were in Turkey?

You come off as an extremely ignorant person who has replaced intellect with dogmatic faith. You make pronouncements that have no basis in fact and claim that any attempt to argue is bullying. You live in a tint bubble, and I feel nothing but pity for you. You would judge the whole world while knowing nothing of it.

Grace Kim Kwon

Those are church buildings for a show. Atheistic communist nations have such buildings, too. Mention Armenian Genocide to Turks and see how much freedom or favor you could have with them. Stop being naive. Because you don’t have any religion and just tour around, you feel and find nothing about the nation’s freedom degree.

Tourists are usually happy heads dreaming a falsehood. I hope Turkey doesn’t sell little girls to tourists. Too many criminals nowadays. You are the one who doesn’t sound like an American man who served in military. If you are average, it just conforms US military needs Christian education to be useful.

Trilemma

Washington led an army of Christians to kill fellow Christians by the thousands. Lincoln sent armies of Christians to kill fellow Christians by the hundreds of thousands. How does that make them honest Christian men?

Grace Kim Kwon

At that time all whites claimed to be Christian; it was the same thing as claiming to be civilized. Washington beat up the blood suckers and Lincoln beat up slave owners. Christendom alone among all civilizations fixed its own injustices without foreign interferences, and pagans only received charity and universal literacy and human rights and freedom freely from the Western Christendom. Creating is hard but mimicking and receiving is easy. Chritendom did all the hard works for all mankind.

Trilemma

About 24,000 British soldiers died in the American Revolutionary War and according to you not one of them was a Christian. Even if that were true, Jesus commanded Washington to love his enemies and pray for them. Instead Washington killed them.

About 260,000 Confederate soldiers died in the American Civil War and according to you not one of them was Christian. Even if that were true, Jesus commanded Lincoln to love his enemies and pray for them. Instead Lincoln killed them.

Grace Kim Kwon

White people all claimed to be Christian for most of their history. Those who took God’s side won. It was foolish of any man to die so that the wealthy could keep the slaves. Democrats.

johndoe

Nobody is bullying. You just don’t like to be called out for your nonsense comments

Grace Kim Kwon

Don’t come to me by a bunch. Don’t do that to anyone, for that matter. Say something meaningful.

johndoe

Get a grip. This is a public forum. Make nonsense statements and prepare to be confronted.

Reason0verhate

These ‘tards define “unconstitutional” as “anything we hate.”

They have the mind of Hitler: He hated Jews, so he decided the German government should hate them too.

Ambulance Chaser

No, we define “unconstitutional” as what the Constitution and the courts’ interpretation of it says is unconstitutional.

Grace Kim Kwon

Today’s USA’s existence is unconstitutional because it forces the world homosexuality against its own founding purposes. USA should get Christian education and cure its own mental illness.

Ambulance Chaser

That’s wrong on so many levels I can’t even argue against it. It just makes no sense.

Grace Kim Kwon

True. American Sodomites should not dictate mankind. You guys were worthy of respect and mimicking only when you adhered Christianity. Non-christian USA is just all about money and power and immorality and nothing about the truth or character.

antifasciste

Were you bullied by the Middle School Physics Club? Could explain the childish name calling.

Maybe you’d care to enlighten all of us on the 11th Article of the Treaty of Tripoli. Although the US government does have a history of if ignoring or violating treaties.

Lexical Cannibal

Other religions, such as Islam or Satanism, would not be included because they did not play a role in the founding of the nation.

So first of all, that’s just a very shaky claim all over.

More importantly, though, even though that’s clearly what this bill was designed to achieve, that’s still really not the case. Regardless of the alleged influence on western law, it’s still a religious monument and so still opens the way for other, non-Christian monuments, such as an Islamic monument, a pagan monument, or yes, even the Satanic monument.

The constitution of the United States does not permit Christian exceptionalism.

Oboehner

“The constitution of the United States does not permit Christian exceptionalism.”
It does permit the will of the people.

Grace Kim Kwon

Most Americans were Christian before. Americans knew only the God of the Holy Bible like all Europeans did.

TheLastHonestLawyer

Except for the ones who were German. And that definition applied to the first 30 years of the nation at best. Americans are from every where. Louisiana is French, the Great Lakes states are overrun with Scandinavians, and almost all of the Western portions of the country were once part of Spain and later Mexico.

Grace Kim Kwon

They were all Christian. Most of the whites, be it Europeans or North Americans or Australians, claim to be Christian for all time everywhere. The last 30-40 years have been different and that’s also the same time period the West has been deteriorating. Eastern Europe and Russia suffered atheism’s brutal reign for about 4-7 decades but they bounced back to Christianity about 3 decades ago. The white people have been a Christian race for a long time. For the last 200 years colored peoples massively became Christian in spite of severe persecutions everywhere.

TheLastHonestLawyer

No, they were also Jewish and many were versions of Christianity you would call heretical.

Grace Kim Kwon

Christians were the dominant majority, both Catholics and Protestants. For white people, being Non-christian meant being Non-civilized for the longest time.

Lexical Cannibal

Within limits. Hard limits. Once upon a time it was the will of the people that interracial marriage should be illegal. Many times, the “will of the people” tried to trump the constitution to ensure this would continue to be the case. Generally speaking, the will of the people does not override the constitution.

Reason0verhate

You’re a silly ignoramus. In the same period when T Jefferson wrote the famous letter in which he referred to the “wall of separation,” he was attending Christian worship services in the US Capitol.

You religion-haters don’t know squat about history. The Founders were nothing like you.

Grace Kim Kwon

Secular Americans are aliens and are incapable of understanding the American Founders.

johndoe

Secular Americans are Americans. Period. They are afforded all the same rights as christian Americans. Read a history book.

Grace Kim Kwon

Secular Americans must not tell anyone what to do because they are sick immoral.

TheLastHonestLawyer

Matthew 7:1 just flies right over your head.

Grace Kim Kwon

Read Matthew 7:2-29, too, especially verse 5. You are the one who is judging others, by the way, by your own comment.

Ambulance Chaser

So what? What does it matter what Jefferson did?

Reason0verhate

Because, you moron, he was POTUS and obviously did not have this hatred for Christianity that you vulgar little atheists have.

You retards quote Jefferson constantly, then when someone brings up something about Jefferson that you don’t like, you jump in with “What does it matter?”

Cherry-picking imbeciles.

Ambulance Chaser

I don’t predict that you’re going to be around here very long.

Lexical Cannibal

And just like that, he’s gone! All hail the prophet Ambulance Chaser!

Ambulance Chaser

🙂 I’d credit my precognitive powers, but the truth is, the staff around here don’t like people who come on like rabid attack dogs right out of the gate.

Lexical Cannibal

WhaaaAAAaaat? You’re telling me that your prediction was not based in supernatural sources, but derrived from observed patterns? That’s crazy. You’re crazy.

Jenny Ondioline

You were right.
Wow, makes me curious. Wish I’d read it in time.

james blue

Is your screen name and profile deliberately designed to be ironic or was it unintentional?

Lexical Cannibal

Dear diary,
Today a person named Reason0verhate tried to enter a conversation with me by calling me an ignoramous. This irony will sustain me for years to come.

johndoe

LOL!

TheLastHonestLawyer

The funny thing is this definition would excluded the Southern Baptist Convention from taking part, as they were formed in 1845.

Reason0verhate

Here’s a good rule of thumb for public religious monuments: Confine the monuments to religions that meet two criteria:
1. They have produced martyrs, i.e., people took the faith so seriously that they were willing to die for it.
2. It is not a religion that mandates the destruction of infidels.

# 1 would clearly eliminate the Satanists, wiccans, and their ilk, and # 2 would keep out the Muslims. A serious religion would, inevitably, produce martyrs. A compassionate religion would not mandate the destruction of other religions. So, limit monuments to serious and compassionate religions.

Pretty much leaves it back where we started: Jews and Christians.

tatoo

Jews have not produced martyrs and it is a religion that mandates the destruction of infidels. I guess you missed the destruction part in your bible. So, the Ten Commandments should be out since it was handed to Moses for Jewish law. That leaves nothing.

Reason0verhate

Moron, you are like all secular Jews, you know nothing at all about Judaism. There have been thousands of Jewish martyrs. Judaism has no mandate to destroy infidels.

I’m surprised someone as ignorant as you can even turn on a computer.

Lukes_NaNa

Jews have produced martyrs, all the way through the 20th century. Perhaps you could review Russian history and the Holocaust. The battles fought during the settling of Israel, and the premise for them are not codified in the Torah.

Ambulance Chaser

How is that a good rule? You just randomly made up some conditions to establish a thinly-veiled, backdoor promotion of Christianity, which is unconstitutional.

Reason0verhate

You’re an atheist, so you’re biased and fanatical.

Ambulance Chaser

That doesn’t answer my question.

johndoe

You’re thinking of christians

TheLastHonestLawyer

Did you color over Matthew 7:3-5 with a sharpie? Of have you just never read it?

Chris

You’re a fundie Christian, so you’re biased and fanatical. See how dismissive that is?

Nidalap

Not at all.
The words “establish” and “promote” are two different things and, when pertaining to religion, only one is in the Constitution…

SFBruce

It’s true “establish” and “promote” have different meanings. That said, the government can no neither, because to do so would go contrary to the notion of religious liberty. If the state engages in activities which say one sect is superior over another, anyone whose beliefs don’t align with the favored set of beliefs would be an outsider. If you truly want freedom of religion, the state must be utterly neutral.

Ambulance Chaser

This is how a state action avoids violating the Establishment Clause. It:

1. It must have a secular legislative purpose.

2. The principal effect must not advance nor inhibit religion.

3. It must not result in an “excessive government entanglement” with religion. Lemon v. Kurtzman

Trilemma

Which one? I can’t find either.

Bob Johnson

At least we will get a lot more statues of the Buddha.

SFBruce

If and when the government decides which religions are “serious and compassionate,” we will no longer have freedom of religion. How can you be sure your beliefs will be among those with the state’s stamp of approval? And even if you make the cut today, what happens when another party is in power, and decides to rethink who’s in and who’s out?

TheKingOfRhye

In other words, you’re against freedom of religion. Got it.

tatoo

The Satanic Temple is already landing to present their proposal to the commission.

Marshall P

No kidding? You can see the Satanic Temple landing? You notice any other buildings hovering around in the atmosphere? Schools? Malls? Burger Kings? Costcos?
You need to tell the nurses to bump up your dosage for Namenda. Maybe throw some benzos in there too.

Grace Kim Kwon

The Ten Commandments are good and vital to all. Americans should keep that are good and reject that are bad and evil such as Satanism. Secular West, the former excellent Christendom, became wayward by stressing only freedom without morality and giving the evil the same rights with the good. That causes lawlessness.

essmeier

We really need to nip that worship of graven images in the bud. Good call.

Grace Kim Kwon

Ten Commandment monuments are a reminder of God’s laws everywhere on earth especially in the Western land. The West has only Christianity to be moral. Western Christian missionaries had taught the pagans already not to abuse women and children and not to commit suicide.

TheLastHonestLawyer

And yet the highest levels of domestic violence are found in the Bible Belt, and suicides happen daily.

Go figure.

Grace Kim Kwon

You are wrong. The Western and Northeastern regions of USA have far more evils going on. You guys have been deceived. Christianity alone makes Americans decent and civilized.

TheLastHonestLawyer

Again, no. Endless studies have shown that the highest rates of domestic abuse, porn consumption, divorce, and alcohol sales are found in the Bible Belt states in the South. Although Idaho is up there.

Grace Kim Kwon

You are wrong, the statistics crafted up by liberals for liberals’ use. Americans are all similar everywhere except for Western coasts and Northeastern cities.

TheLastHonestLawyer

No, we are not a monolithic block of people. And the West Coast and Northeastern cities make up close to 20% of the population.

Have you ever been to California? The San Joaquin Valley is intensely conservative and Christian. But even there you find diversity. Fresno has a huge Armenian population, for example. Even the cities aren’t all liberal. Orange County and San Diego are both pretty conservative.

You seem to be rather dogmatic and inflexible, not to mention adverse to facts.

Grace Kim Kwon

You Americans should stop bashing the Bible Belt but rather the perv concentrations on the West and Northeast. The election and the incoming news made it clear.

TheLastHonestLawyer

“You Americans”

Lady, if you are not American, might I suggest that you have no clue about us? I spent a year in Korea with the Army. Doesn’t make an expert on anything other than the DMZ and how to drink soju.

Grace Kim Kwon

I didn’t grow up in Korea. I don’t drink, either. What’s DMZ? You should have visted international churches there. Sometimes outsiders can tell things more correctly. I’ve met too many liberal Americans who attack the Bible Belt and the state of Texas. You guys should stop that. Americans there are truly great people.

TheLastHonestLawyer

The DMZ is the Demilitarized Zone separating the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea (the North) from the Republic of Korea (the South.) It’s about two miles wide and stretches across the entire country. Soldiers from the US and the ROK stand ready to defend against attacks by the DPRK.

I seriously cannot believe you’ve never heard of this. You would have to be one of the more ignorant people I’ve ever encountered.

Texas sucks, except for Austin. Austin is weird.

Grace Kim Kwon

Thanks for being there. I know the zone name in a different language. Sorry about that; my English is bad. Texas is good. Your home town must be somewhere in the Northeast. Why can’t you get along? Is it okay if Texas gets independence if USA has a criminal liberal president ever again? I hope California rather gets independence to give all Americans peace.

TheLastHonestLawyer

Do you ever get tired of being wrong? I live in Santa Clara, California, about 40 miles south of San Francisco. You were only off by 3,000 miles.

We don’t get along because the US is a huge nation of over 300 million people who are incredibly diverse. Regional cultures are the rule. The Bay Area is a very different place when compared to rural Georgia or Minnesota. We barely speak the same language!

You know nothing of my nation. Nothing.

Grace Kim Kwon

Ya, the Western coast; the reason you hate the Bible Belt. You guys are mostly British or confirmers to the British by speaking English and should get along well even if you are 3 billion. Nowadays the liberals sound like the Soviets whom your Christian forefathers have beaten up and defeated. The Russians are better than the American liberals in keeping mankind’s freedom today. At least I love your nation very much. I’ve read George Washington and Abraham Lincoln since little. “Uncle Tom’s Cabin” is my all-time favorite! That’s not enough?

TheLastHonestLawyer

In reality, a place you should visit sometime, most of us are Latino. Those descended from the earliest settlers are German and Russian. Anglos didn’t make it here until the 19th century. Half of California used to be part of Spain, then later Mexico before the Treaty of Guadalupe in 1848.

Grace Kim Kwon

But Americans speak English. The Christian English started the first colony successfully and have overcome everyone. Please be united in being good by keeping the Christian heritage your only sane morality and good education. Don’t bully other nations for not-submitting to American perversion. We thought you valued freedom.

TheLastHonestLawyer

No todos hablamos inglés como nuestro primer idioma.

The first successful colony in North America was San Agustín in Florida. That was settled in 1565, forty years before Jamestown.

I’m serious, your ignorance is amazing.

Grace Kim Kwon

But it didn’t become the core part of the USA. People need noble creeds and character for establishment and bone structure of a great nation.

TheLastHonestLawyer

By that definition 37 states aren’t actually American. And the liberal Northeastern states you despise made up about half of the original 13 states.

Also, by your argument, you can’t possibly be a Christian because you weren’t part of the core part of the faith.

Grace Kim Kwon

The 13 states’ original constitution says the USA exists to spread the Christian religion. Latinos have been Christian as well, no problem. No atheist created anything; TLHLawyer, you must repent of your sin of unbelief to get saved. Read Psalm chapter 14 and John chapter 3.

TheLastHonestLawyer

No, the Constitution does not say that. Show me the quote or admit that you are lying. Nor is that in the Articles of Confederation.

Atheists created the computer you are using, and the internet we are conversing over. Thomas Edison was an atheist. Benjamin Franklin’s writings show he was at least an agnostic. James Watt, atheist. Alexander Graham Bell, agnostic. Lee De Forest, agnostic.

Want one more? There is considerable evidence that Michelangelo, one of the greatest artists in history, was a closeted atheist. Look at the Creation of Adam panel in the Sistine Chapel ceiling. God is floating inside an anatomically correct human brain. Adam’s eyes are already open. At the other end of the chapel at the papal throne there is an angel giving a rude gesture to the throne. Based on this and other works, many think that Michelangelo was saying “God exists only in our minds.”

Grace Kim Kwon

Look up the original constitution of the 13 states. Computer took a long time for invention in the white Christendom. Thomas Edison sounded like a very godly Christian man. Benjamin Franklin, too. Webster was totally a godly Christian. You categorized them all wrong. Michelangelo created many religious works with a devout worshipful heart, along with many Christian composers.

Secular Westerners interpret things wrong. They are incapable of interpreting their normal Christian ancestors. To secular Westerner everyone is such a gay like themselves, but many were actually normal. Read them. It’s just modern Americans that are sick. You guys have no idea on your own white Christrian ancestors because you never read the Holy Bible.

TwoRutRoad

I hardly need a monument to remind to not to kill people. I can remember that all by myself. If YOU need a constant reminder, then some counseling might be a good idea.

Lukes_NaNa

I see a number of postings on here(the website) by non-Christians who display contempt for Christianity. Why would you faithfully read a website dedicated to something you hate?

Rus Shore

1. Who says we faithfully read this site?
2. Who said we hate Christianity?

Get this through your head…. We hate then Christians try to impose their beliefs on others.

Lukes_NaNa

And understand that Christians will stand up for our beliefs while being committed to not hating those who attempt to force their beliefs on us.

Truthhurts24

The Ten Commandments should be written inside every Christians heart and mind. There is no need to fight over a display statue.

Grace Kim Kwon

No, people forget what they don’t see. America needs crosses and Christian flags and Ten Commandments in view. Atheists will start complaining about visible church buildings as well. Liberal-educated kids are suffering from mental break-downs. This should be the frontline.

Truthhurts24

Im sorry but I disagree the disciples and Christ did not go around telling people to put up crosses and various images to promote his message. He told them to just follow his path of life and you will be blessed. All that is needed is The Bible the book of life to be followed in a persons life not any crosses or monuments in public. There would be no need to put up any of these monuments or images if the government would follow the bible instead of mans laws. The Bible is the answer to all problems in society nothing else.

Grace Kim Kwon

Yes, but I need to tell you that today’s USA resembles the beginning of Nazi Germany with the atheists and pervs as villains instead of racists. The victims are children instead of the Jews. What should the German churches have done? Nothing? Pacifists did not rescue the world but the active Christian Americans did.

Truthhurts24

To be honest with you America was never really a Christian nation when it was established. The various presidents which has written the declaration of independence and constitutional laws were masonic and deists. America has a lot of bloodshed on its hands as well due to the sins of slavery and wars with other nations and these curses such as homosexuality,racism.trans genderism,stds,pedophilia,childtrafficing,hatred of the bible and various other plagues is because of the past sins of this nation that has not been repented of at all. Christians are the only light in America and its only a matter of time before we are persecuted like the Jews in Nazi Germany.

Grace Kim Kwon

Those deists were Christian; it will be found out how much Un-christian they were only in Heaven. USA is the least guilty comparing to other nations except for promoting and funding of blasphemy, abortion, nudism, and homosexuality in the last few decades. USA did numerous good things as a Christian-majority nation. All nations are guilty of sins.

Truthhurts24

America will get the greater Judgement because it was established on bloodshed nothing Christian about that. Look up the movie hidden faith of the founding fathers that will open your eyes to the founding of America and what the belief system was formed for America and it was not Christian but masonic. Yes all nations are guilty of sins but America because its the most powerful will feel the harshest judgement than any nation. America has always been dark within its government its just now its out in the open with its evil.

Grace Kim Kwon

The Lord knows. God will reveal and punish all the hidden sins of the entire mankind. It is a reality that the most excellent Christians( the Puritan Pilgrims) founded America and American missionaries evangelied the whole world and American soldiers liberated protected the whole world. God blessed the USA, and the USA brought much blessings to the world according to its founding purposes written in Mayflower Compact. There has been a pattern. Nothing is in vain.

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