Banned

Comon even you have noted microsoft war chest. The consoles are close enough that neither one will get kicked out of competition. What were probably seeing is Sony imo keeping as much profit in their sales as long as the overall mind share isn't detiorating. Microsoft on the other hand is pushing these great deals to counter that. I don't think microsoft will run out of money and I don't think Sony will decrease their price unless the WW numbers are much closer. In this case it still a huge gap. Coming from a crappy financial situation and decreased mind share from last gen, I would think Sony is happy just where they are at.

It has the better controller and Microsoft owns Rare are the reasons for me (which would not have sufficed to buy an Xbox One yet, but) for my fiancée it is the system that has Fantasia, which is now her favourite game of all time.

Also, even if you do not see these points as advantages, as long as you deem PS4's advantages weak enough that they don't outweigh the price differential, of course you will choose XB1? There were also a lot of people who bought a PS2 over Xbox without buying any PS2-exclusive games, at the same price even and the difference in tech between PS2 and Xbox was bigger than the one between PS4 and XB1.

They struggle in "the rest of the world" but MS and Xbox have a lot of brand power in the US and even at a higher price it was selling relatively well. And at their new price there's a keen interest from buyers.

Banned

About ps4 numbers: If I remember correctly there were talks about 16M ps4s being sold at the end of the first year, at the beggining of the gen. How did that turn out? Does anyone have any numbers on that? I remember that it was suposed to be shipped numbers and what not, though.

We're just nearing xmas and suddenly I remembered about that. I didn't have an account at the time, but I accompanied it from the sidelines.

I had a choice between receiving a PS4 as a Christmas gift or an Xbox, and went with the Xbox. I'm torn saying this, but right now the PS4 exclusives are just dogshit. Xbox and Wii U both have it beat (Xbox less so but still much better imo). Combine that with the pricecuts and better value bundles, it's not hard to see why one would choose it over a lackluster PS4 lineup.

C'mon it's not that bad a console. I'm not interested in XB1 but it's not hard to see that for average shopper the value proposition was get cheaper version of essentially same thing (spend $50 dollars less and get Unity, CoD etc).

MS know that, particularly in US, November and December are very price sensitive months where many shoppers have value for money as their core driver.

Sure PS4 is objectively better hardware for playing games but the XB1 is good enough and has enough US centric features and services to appeal if price is competitive enough to compensate for the known power difference.

Both sold really well but XB1 had more varied and consistent deals that focused on getting more for your money and that simply resonated that bit more with the prevailing shopping trends.

Banned

We're kind of in new territory here. We've never seen one of the big three this desperate. That's not a knock on MS. They've been smart. They've got the warchest to fight this battle with pure money if they need to, and they needed too.

That's b/c what MS's doing with XBO is not what you normally do with consoles. It defies the traditional model. It defies the traditional model of a healthy system, to bank everything around two months of the year. And the only reason they can do it is b/c of their warchest.

Getting real for a moment, it's essentially a form of temporary price-fixing. But that's not the part of actual controversy (for the moment). What's really at work here, is anti-competitive actions. That's because MS is essentially using their wealth of money to attempt burying other competitors. They can afford to take extreme losses on product their competitor (Sony) can't due only to their deep pockets. That's great from a consumer perspective; you end up with what we're seeing now (and this is probably just a mild example of what they COULD do in the future).

It's bad for corporate competition though b/c it essentially cements the company with the most money out of the gate as the one to win, even if their product is inferior. And even if that product isn't inferior (very few people will genuinely say XBO is subjectively inferior to PS4; objectively it is however, from a power POV), they are still going about competing in a way that technically violates competition laws in the U.S. But the onus isn't on the Supreme Court to call them out on that, and that may only be the case if it's prolonged. Two months isn't prolonged; it's a short sprint.

That's why you see MS stressing the price rising back up in January (which I doubt will happen, but they'll probably remove all the gift card bonuses and most of the free games and free XBL offers certainly); because they know where this can lead them if they stick to it for the long run. They aren't stupid.

So yeah, from your perspective, it's all good because you, as a consumer, are on the direct receiving end of some sweet deals. But from a corporate end, it's murky waters. It's somewhat similar to the things Nintendo pulled during the NES/SNES gens, but not very damaging (if damaging at all) to actual developers and publishers, and not necessarily vindictive on MS's part (especially if it is, again, only temporary).

Member

That's b/c what MS's doing with XBO is not what you normally do with consoles. It defies the traditional model. It defies the traditional model of a healthy system, to bank everything around two months of the year. And the only reason they can do it is b/c of their warchest.

Getting real for a moment, it's essentially a form of temporary price-fixing. But that's not the part of actual controversy (for the moment). What's really at work here, is anti-competitive actions. That's because MS is essentially using their wealth of money to attempt burying other competitors. They can afford to take extreme losses on product their competitor (Sony) can't due only to their deep pockets. That's great from a consumer perspective; you end up with what we're seeing now (and this is probably just a mild example of what they COULD do in the future).

It's bad for corporate competition though b/c it essentially cements the company with the most money out of the gate as the one to win, even if their product is inferior. And even if that product isn't inferior (very few people will genuinely say XBO is subjectively inferior to PS4; objectively it is however, from a power POV), they are still going about competing in a way that technically violates competition laws in the U.S. But the onus isn't on the Supreme Court to call them out on that, and that may only be the case if it's prolonged. Two months isn't prolonged; it's a short sprint.

That's why you see MS stressing the price rising back up in January (which I doubt will happen, but they'll probably remove all the gift card bonuses and most of the free games and free XBL offers certainly); because they know where this can lead them if they stick to it for the long run. They aren't stupid.

So yeah, from your perspective, it's all good because you, as a consumer, are on the direct receiving end of some sweet deals. But from a corporate end, it's murky waters. It's somewhat similar to the things Nintendo pulled during the NES/SNES gens, but not very damaging (if damaging at all) to actual developers and publishers, and not necessarily vindictive on MS's part (especially if it is, again, only temporary).

Member

That's b/c what MS's doing with XBO is not what you normally do with consoles. It defies the traditional model. It defies the traditional model of a healthy system, to bank everything around two months of the year. And the only reason they can do it is b/c of their warchest.

Getting real for a moment, it's essentially a form of temporary price-fixing. But that's not the part of actual controversy (for the moment). What's really at work here, is anti-competitive actions. That's because MS is essentially using their wealth of money to attempt burying other competitors. They can afford to take extreme losses on product their competitor (Sony) can't due only to their deep pockets. That's great from a consumer perspective; you end up with what we're seeing now (and this is probably just a mild example of what they COULD do in the future).

It's bad for corporate competition though b/c it essentially cements the company with the most money out of the gate as the one to win, even if their product is inferior. And even if that product isn't inferior (very few people will genuinely say XBO is subjectively inferior to PS4; objectively it is however, from a power POV), they are still going about competing in a way that technically violates competition laws in the U.S. But the onus isn't on the Supreme Court to call them out on that, and that may only be the case if it's prolonged. Two months isn't prolonged; it's a short sprint.

That's why you see MS stressing the price rising back up in January (which I doubt will happen, but they'll probably remove all the gift card bonuses and most of the free games and free XBL offers certainly); because they know where this can lead them if they stick to it for the long run. They aren't stupid.

So yeah, from your perspective, it's all good because you, as a consumer, are on the direct receiving end of some sweet deals. But from a corporate end, it's murky waters. It's somewhat similar to the things Nintendo pulled during the NES/SNES gens, but not very damaging (if damaging at all) to actual developers and publishers, and not necessarily vindictive on MS's part (especially if it is, again, only temporary).

Member

For reference, Microsoft has been doing the free game holiday bundles since they got into the industry. GameCube dropped its price to $99 in October 2003, and no one claimed it was an anti-competitive practice, and they never even raised the price back up in January! Sales are not illegal.

For Microsoft, in particular, as has already been explained in this thread, U.S. is the only territory they can compete in, so in their desperation, they provide a price cut (temporary or not) and incentives for people to buy their console in order to not be left in the dust in their one competitive territory.

Sony didn't price-fix the PS1 iirc; if anything Sony did to them what Nintendo did to Sega and NEC in the 8/16-bit gens. Conducting practices that affected the dev community more than it did the consumer side.

I mean, N64 came out late anyhow, by the time it came out people were expecting a price cut for PS1 weren't they? And Sega was taking losses even at $399.

What you're thinking of, I"d say it's closer to what MS did with 360 pricing-wise last gen. I wouldn't call that fixing anything, just pricing smart with production costs scaling down at healthy intervals/milestones. Sony priced themselves out of the field moreso than anything.

Specifically about the PS4
- The controller has an embedded speaker, a touchpad that can be used as a mouse, and a light which while sometimes annoying can also be used for various effects and apparently will have a VR - related function.
- Video sharing and screenshot taking straight from the controller, at the push of a button
- The OS can start playing a game while the install goes on, making most new physiscal games install very painless
- The OS can play music in the background without anything showing on screen
- Shareplay allows you to literally share a game online, and even do couch co op, with a game designed for local coop/ vs
- PS Now alows you to rent games that are streamed with 0 install time (pricing is a separate issue)
- The PS4 has been designed as a Virtual DVR/ TV desktop box, which will allow when PS Vue is implemented to have TV received straight via Internet, which will be ideal for cable cutters
- Move support with VR applications for precise spatial controler applications (with buttons)
- Morpheus VR
- ...

Member

I had a choice between receiving a PS4 as a Christmas gift or an Xbox, and went with the Xbox. I'm torn saying this, but right now the PS4 exclusives are just dogshit. Xbox and Wii U both have it beat (Xbox less so but still much better imo). Combine that with the pricecuts and better value bundles, it's not hard to see why one would choose it over a lackluster PS4 lineup.

More features, faster updates, unlimited cloud storage, EA Access access, exclusives that might fit someone's tastes more. There are plenty of reasons to buy an XBO. I haven't done it personally, but there are plenty of reasons to.

Member

That's b/c what MS's doing with XBO is not what you normally do with consoles. It defies the traditional model. It defies the traditional model of a healthy system, to bank everything around two months of the year. And the only reason they can do it is b/c of their warchest.

Getting real for a moment, it's essentially a form of temporary price-fixing. But that's not the part of actual controversy (for the moment). What's really at work here, is anti-competitive actions. That's because MS is essentially using their wealth of money to attempt burying other competitors. They can afford to take extreme losses on product their competitor (Sony) can't due only to their deep pockets. That's great from a consumer perspective; you end up with what we're seeing now (and this is probably just a mild example of what they COULD do in the future).

It's bad for corporate competition though b/c it essentially cements the company with the most money out of the gate as the one to win, even if their product is inferior. And even if that product isn't inferior (very few people will genuinely say XBO is subjectively inferior to PS4; objectively it is however, from a power POV), they are still going about competing in a way that technically violates competition laws in the U.S. But the onus isn't on the Supreme Court to call them out on that, and that may only be the case if it's prolonged. Two months isn't prolonged; it's a short sprint.

That's why you see MS stressing the price rising back up in January (which I doubt will happen, but they'll probably remove all the gift card bonuses and most of the free games and free XBL offers certainly); because they know where this can lead them if they stick to it for the long run. They aren't stupid.

So yeah, from your perspective, it's all good because you, as a consumer, are on the direct receiving end of some sweet deals. But from a corporate end, it's murky waters. It's somewhat similar to the things Nintendo pulled during the NES/SNES gens, but not very damaging (if damaging at all) to actual developers and publishers, and not necessarily vindictive on MS's part (especially if it is, again, only temporary).

Sony did the same thing with the PS3 at the beginning of the Gen, so being aggressive on price, and losing a ton of money on each console to boost user base is nothing new.

I think that what is important to keep in mind is that this should stand as a short term strategy to boost popularity of the product, and never a long term solution, and I think the people at Xbox know this.

I think one thing to keep in mind is that Microsoft is not trying to user their 'warchest' to eliminate all their competition here, they just want to continue to do well enough to keep all the 3rd party support that their platform has enjoyed over the years as that is, and has always been the backbone of their strategy.

I think last gen. they could have easily crippled the PS3 in the US if they would have been more competitive with the price, and used their pockets to effectively eliminate all competition. They did not do that tough, and will not do it in the future because all they care about is having a profitable division, not being a monopoly in the gameing space.

The reason why Sony announced PS4 with a $400 price tag is because the biggest fault with the PS3 was its price tag of 599 US Dollars. PS4 was made with a $400 price tag in mind because no one was going to accept a $500-$600 console as last-gen had shown.

Even assuming that Sony wanted to get MS out of competition, they aren't going to kill themselves to do it, especially since Sony doesn't need to win the US to win the generation.

Member

More features, faster updates, unlimited cloud storage, EA Access access, exclusives that might fit someone's tastes more. There are plenty of reasons to buy an XBO. I haven't done it personally, but there are plenty of reasons to.

Not even close. Also, it hasn't been doing well in Europe, it's only been doing well in the UK.

And the only reason it's charting so highly there is because of the massive bundling. It's not even like a destiny bundle or even an AC bundle, it's being bundled with 3-4 other popular games like GTA, CoD, Destiny, FC4, etc.

Pretty ridiculous to peg Driveclub as some big seller when it's only sold ~55k in the US and elsewhere is only charting in the UK(due to bundle), Australia and sometimes NZ.

Gotta say, I was pretty skeptical about those numbers. Really thought Sony would be lucky to ship 16M consoles, but then came launch time and the thing just took off.

But now hearing you say that 20M+ is a possibility, well, I can only congratulate Sony. They really struck a chord here. Even with me, first time I ever bought a console in its first year. But this time I couldn't help myself. Not regretting it at all, really good console.

Lets just hope that such numbers also brings even more great games with them.