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Location: English Rose by birth; Calling the Southern Hemi home by choice.

Posts: 915

Quote:

Originally Posted by nycindie

Any babies he fathers, whether with his wife or gf, would also be his own kids.

It sounds like a triad without hierarchy. OP, do you all three live together? Just wondering.

Yes, we do reside together, but she also retains a separate residence. She understands that DH and I need time alone and vice versa.

__________________Ry - Me. Panromantic demisexual with a history of polyamorist tendencies. Married to...Matt (Hubby) - The once distant stranger that I complement beautifully. DH of 13 years and father of our four children.Closed.

Location: English Rose by birth; Calling the Southern Hemi home by choice.

Posts: 915

Quote:

Originally Posted by SourGirl

That was my exact thinking. Pretty much putting the cart before the horse. Even if it is a case of wanting to make sure you have that base covered so no 'oopsie' happens,....I think I'd opt to just bluntly say my feelings in a conversation where a chat about children popped up.

I am the type of person who likes to plan ahead. I know that my feelings on this will never. Children outside of our marriage is not something I am remotely OK with. The triad just formed, so limits and boundaries are still in the developing stages. I said I did not want kids for years, and the tide turned 7 years into our marriage.

At the present time, she is still at the age where she can bear a child. Her biological clock could very well be ticking. I don't want to be forced to accept something due to an accidental pregnancy. I'd rather be proactive now, discuss everything, and do whatever it takes to stop it from reaching the point of no resturn.

__________________Ry - Me. Panromantic demisexual with a history of polyamorist tendencies. Married to...Matt (Hubby) - The once distant stranger that I complement beautifully. DH of 13 years and father of our four children.Closed.

Location: English Rose by birth; Calling the Southern Hemi home by choice.

Posts: 915

Quote:

Originally Posted by dingedheart

Are there other new or old limits and boundaries that are unequally applied to a specific couple?

Funny to hear "her body and her choice" but maybe he should have a vasectomy and always wear a condom until ..............until when exactly?

I don't understand why the fluid bonding needs to be put on hold given the long histories of the unit....especially after you've encouraged it for so many years.

IMHO, it's not unfair or unequal. New couple formed = new limits. Prior to now, there was no need for limits, as nothing had transpired, as we were a V and I was the hinge. Now that it has, limits are being established.

The thing with the vasectomy is that it involves me as well. A vasectomy and a tubal can both be undone, but the reversal procedure a tubal is £10k and our insurance will not cover that. The other issue is it may or may not take. In the event it doesn't, we are just out of the money. If I do something like a tubal, I want it to be set in stone that no more children will be had. We have not reached the point in our marriage where we have said that we are done having children. There was never a cookie cutter limit like 3 because initially we didn't want children. As mentioned in a previous post, it took a little bit under 7 years for the tide to turn.

__________________Ry - Me. Panromantic demisexual with a history of polyamorist tendencies. Married to...Matt (Hubby) - The once distant stranger that I complement beautifully. DH of 13 years and father of our four children.Closed.

Location: English Rose by birth; Calling the Southern Hemi home by choice.

Posts: 915

Quote:

Originally Posted by Becca

That actually depends on where you live, and how you donate (through a clinic as opposed to using a turkey baster).

To the OP-- before you let your thoughts spin off in a million directions, you definitely need to talk to them. If your girlfriend is 35, she may have already made the decision that she doesn't want to have kids.

Really, everyone ultimately has (or ought to have) the right to their own reproductive choices, so I understand that this is something you might not feel comfortable bringing up. It also makes sense that with all the compersion you're feeling, you are embarrassed to confess to this one area where you feel jealous. My best advice is to try to forgive yourself for feeling jealousy-- it is normal and natural to feel that way, and does not mean that you have failed to evolve to the perfect poly person, or that you are flawed, or that you don't love these people deeply. It's okay to feel it.

Consider, maybe, that because this one area (having kids) is sort of it's own little emotional arena, your brain might be dumping all of your jealousies and insecurities into this field. That is, you might be having much more intense feelings about this issue than you otherwise would, because it's the venue for you to express all the little anxieties and concerns that crop up when you see the people you love focusing on each other rather than you. That's okay.

I really just think that if you give yourself permission to have your feelings, to experience insecurity and jealousy and anxiety, and work through them, they won't have so much control over you.

And talk to your loved ones about this. Present it as: "I'm so happy that this relationship is growing between you, and I'm not really having much jealousy at all, especially compared to the happiness that I'm feeling, but there is this one area where I feel insecure and I want to talk to you about it and see what your feelings are."

This is not jealousy or insecurity in the least bit. It takes strong and confident person to be poly. For me, jealousy has always been to want someone else. If I was infertile or had trouble TTC, jealousy might be an issue then. If I had the desire, I could get pregnant right now. It is entirely too soon, and my brain is still in "I'm a new mum again" mode. Though our other child is only four, we're still adjusting to having a new baby in the house.

This is the one thing that is off-limits. Even if you were to take the fact that we have a seven month old out of the equation, I would still not be 110% on board and supportive. Most people have limits. Even if they include things my primary must always be there when I wake up or no fluid bonding. This one is unequivocally, without a shadow of a doubt, mine. My feelings aren't actually that intense. I'm just the type of person who knows what they want, and when my heart is set on something, nothing can change it.

If she becomes pregnant, that is lifelong responsibility and commitment. Being a parent never stops. The relationships just change and grow as the people do.

Due to the holidays and being in separate parts of the world right, we have not had the chance to have an in-depth face to face conversation. I agree with all of you. Talking has to happen. Thank you all for insight and opinions. It is appreciated beyond belief. Very glad that I found this forum. Talking to my mono friends about this probably would have lead to a resounding hell no I wouldn't be OK with that. Fortunately, you all understand and have experienced variations of this.

__________________Ry - Me. Panromantic demisexual with a history of polyamorist tendencies. Married to...Matt (Hubby) - The once distant stranger that I complement beautifully. DH of 13 years and father of our four children.Closed.

There is no one answer to what is right for every poly couple. I am in a relationship with a dh and shared girlfriend. I have two children with my dh and have no problem if they decide one day to have kids together. Our relationship is one based on love and trust between the three of us and we are raising our 2 current kids as if she was a mom to them too. The only problems that i would foresee would be with judgment from the child's friends parents growing up. A poly lifestyle is not socially acceptable and the kids would have to deal with having half siblings but living with both of those siblings parents. It can be confusing to explain to people, but in the end it is all about what will make the three of you happy. I would never want to deny a woman the chance to be a mother, but some strict guidelines have to be laid down first.

Location: English Rose by birth; Calling the Southern Hemi home by choice.

Posts: 915

Quote:

Originally Posted by eternallygreatful

There is no one answer to what is right for every poly couple. I am in a relationship with a dh and shared girlfriend. I have two children with my dh and have no problem if they decide one day to have kids together. Our relationship is one based on love and trust between the three of us and we are raising our 2 current kids as if she was a mom to them too. The only problems that i would foresee would be with judgment from the child's friends parents growing up. A poly lifestyle is not socially acceptable and the kids would have to deal with having half siblings but living with both of those siblings parents. It can be confusing to explain to people, but in the end it is all about what will make the three of you happy. I would never want to deny a woman the chance to be a mother, but some strict guidelines have to be laid down first.

First, thank you for your comment. I definitely realize that no answer is perfect for every situation. I love this forum for that reason. I love the varying opinions and takes on things. It enables me to see it from another perspective.

I haven't the slightest desire to deny her that right, but what I've come to realize is, I'd rather their relationship end than be alright with or accepting of that. I have put myself in the reverse position. I've told my husband this during our most recent chat. He respects me for being so upfront and honest. Our talks are certainly not over.

My feelings definitely stem from that one, lone monogamous thought of no children outside of a wedded union. That has been deeply embedded from a religious stance. I can remember my religion teacher damn near beating that into our heads. For whatever reason, that stuck with me. I even put myself in the position of being with two men instead of a M/F. I would not be able to give the second mate a child. It is the greatest gift of love an the most amazing bond, but I'd have to deny that man that if the question was asked.

My grandfather--rest his soul--had children with his wife, my grandmother (the eventual ex--as she moved on), and the girlfriend. A poly situation all around. The relationship my mother has with her half-siblings is one that you would share with some random person from school that you meet up with at a reunion 10-20 years down the line. It is kind of "If I see you, I'll speak and catch up, but outside of that, we're two ships sailing in the night" kind of deal. I don't even call her siblings aunts or uncles. There has always been a division amongst the children. We buried my grandfather in 2008, and there was still division.

TBH, I fear that happening. This unspoken division. Our children won't always be in the confines of our home. They'll be facing people every day. Our 4 year old is already aware, so I can imagine the conversations with her daycare mates. She told Kensi, "My mum really loves you."

It is a lot to think about. I'm trying to be fair and hear both of them out. Open ears and open heart. With this sort of genetic monogamy mold, it shields them and provides an element of safety. It is hard to explain.

__________________Ry - Me. Panromantic demisexual with a history of polyamorist tendencies. Married to...Matt (Hubby) - The once distant stranger that I complement beautifully. DH of 13 years and father of our four children.Closed.

I think it might be helpful to distinguish between planned and unplanned pregnancy. Planned has different approaches to unplanned.

To planned, I feel there's some information missing here... Does she want a child? Does she want a child with him? Does she want to be open to the possibility? Does he want a child with her? Does he want to be open to the possibility? How do they feel about you wanting that not to happen, ever? Is this issue concrete or hypothetical?

To unplanned. I'd like to link you to polyamorous misanthrope, who had a good guest post. The hierarchical terminology may not apply, but otherwise it's relevant to your situation. I think you are smart to think about the possibility of unplanned pregnancy, because once it happens, it will be out of your hands.

You seem pretty clear about the fact that you would not be okay them having a child. Furthermore, you will probably never be okay with it, because for that to happen, you'd need to pursue it. That is, it very likely won't change because you are not okay and do not wish to be okay with it.

So, that leaves you with options. Deciding between them is, I guess, based on how you feel, what you want, and what you value. What is your ultimate goal? That you will be the happiest or for everybody be happy? Supporting your partners' autonomy or have them compromise to accommodate your feelings? Here are the options I can think of.

1) Ask them to not be in a relationship. Unfair, unreasonable, but you can do it if you want to. I consider this ethical as long as you acknowledge the fact that you are being unfair&hypocritical in the request. It's up to them to decide if that is something they are willing to do. Also, if it is, it might lead to resentment on their part, which is a risk you would be taking.
2) Ask them to refrain from PIV sex. Again, up to them to decide.
3) Ask them to do their best to prevent a pregnancy. Decide that if, despite of that, she gets pregnant and wants to keep the child (might want to ask if that's what she would do - will help to evaluate the risk), it will really really suck, but you'll just have to deal with the reality in one way or another (including potentially ending your relationships with them). Keep them in the loop about how you feel about things, so that they can make informed decisions.
4) Decide that both whether they want to be in a relationship and what direction they want that relationship to take are their decisions to make, and you will just have to deal with the reality in one way or another (again, including potentially ending your relationships with them). Keep them posted.
5) something else I haven't thought of?

Location: English Rose by birth; Calling the Southern Hemi home by choice.

Posts: 915

Happy New Year, Rory, and thank you for your input and the link. I have already talked to my husband and girlfriend and sweetly but bluntly stated that if it comes down to our marriage vs. them having a child together, sadly, I'd rather their relationship end and we transition back to a V. I don't bite me tongue, and they know that I don't sugarcoat anything.

This triad was just formed, so all these talks are happening now. She had never expressed any desire to have children, as there was no interest. In talking to her over the past few days, there have been thoughts on her end, which is why I'm glad that I'm being proactive and vocal. I'd rather heartache now than heartbreak years in. This is hurting me as much as them, which is why I'm trying to be receptive. I'm struggling with what to do.

With me acknowledging that I'm opposed to it and letting them know and if they were to continue to do it, I feel like I'd be left out of something that would obviously affect me for the rest of my life. It would put strain on our marriage and cause issues in our home. We are close, and I love our relationship. I don't believe in divorce, but something of this magnitude? I'd probably suggest a legal separation. Though she is our girlfriend and an integral part of our lives, I'm still his wife and his/their decisions affect everyone in our family including our children.

DH does respect and understand my feelings, as he now fully understands that this is something that would hurt me and could potentially hurt our marriage. Ken understands why I feel the way I feel and acknowledges that it would be a hard pill to swallow.

As it stands now, DH has no desire to have any more children right now because we have a 4 year old and 7 month old who are keeping us all on our toes and running. However, he did say that he might want more in the future. The good news is he's not 100% against a vasectomy. Right now, that might be the solution. We have to take quite a few things into consideration. Like the fact that the reversal may not be successful if he ever decides to get one. We talked about it, as well is cryopreservation. Better safe than sorry. Barrier methods and birth control are reminiscent of putting a bandaid on a gunshot wound. It temporarily suffices but will not hold permanently.

I don't think I'll ever be okay it. Everyone seems to think that I'm just shutting all the way down and not even giving it a chance. I've tried to be accepting and accomodating of the thought, and there's a block. I'm listening to both sides and being unbiased. I've even weighed the pros and the cons. I've put myself in the reverse position. (Weird, but I couldn't have a child with a married man. No matter how much I was in love with him.) I've done so many exercises. I've done research and read everyone's advice on here. I've taken most of it to heart. I've opened my heart and my ears. Yet, every measure has failed. I'm at war with they may want one day and my morals. I don't know how to get over that hump. If we could find a happy-medium, that would be superb.

__________________Ry - Me. Panromantic demisexual with a history of polyamorist tendencies. Married to...Matt (Hubby) - The once distant stranger that I complement beautifully. DH of 13 years and father of our four children.Closed.

Hang in there. I'm glad you are all talking and hopefully coming closer to some kind of plan to handle it. It is hard to predict the future, so could consider "ok, the plan for the FIRST YEAR is..." to break it down to bite size. Then in a year, a new checkpoint.

Quote:

I'm at war with they may want one day and my morals.

You are not at war. It may FEEL like tug-of-war, but really? This is tug-of-change.

You JUST formed a triad. You guys have to do a reassess, reevaluate, reestablish, reframe -- all those re's -- to incorporate and accommodate the wants, needs, and limits of a new person in the new polyship shape.

You will have what you are willing to do or have. Your wants, needs, and limits.
Ken will have what he is willing to do or have. His wants, needs and limits.
She will have what she is willing to do or have. Her wants, needs and limits.

This is a checkpoint to see what lines up or not, and then adjusting to the happy medium.

A solid "yes" is a "yes."
A solid "no" is a "no."
A maybe? In negotiation? It's a "no."

You will all get through this. It will be ok -- however it is you all decided to deal with it.

Location: English Rose by birth; Calling the Southern Hemi home by choice.

Posts: 915

GalaGirl, I read your response and your advice before we went to dinner, so I was armed with a plan and a starting point. We're tweaking it to perfection to hopefully appease all parties. We did manage to firmly agree on two things: a vasectomy and cryopreservation. A reversal procedure is not guaranteed to work, and we're not ready to say, "We're positively done having children." My mum had my youngest brother at 43, so who is to say that I won't wake up one day before menopause hites and decide, "I'd love to be a mother again." Even if we never use it, we'll know that it's there for future use.

Actually, it seriously feels like a battle inside of me. On the one hand, I have my moral fiber and encompassing, which is just not willing to even accept the notion of a child being born out of my marriage. On the opposing hand, I have two people who I love rather dearly and genuinely want to be happy. Do I swallow what I feel and let them do it to retain equality and steer clear of meddling in their affairs, or do I hold on to my values and compromise an element of their happiness? Realistically, I'm not willing to compromise my values or morals, and I think it would be equally unjust for anyone to ask me to do such. I know how I am, and these feelings will never change. If taking it step-by-step or year-by-year will ease the shock or lead towards their wholehearted acceptance of my decision, then that will have to be the chosen method. Either that, or a relationship or relationships may be ending.

I definitely agree. It's an adjustment and a work in progress. We're ironing out the details and the kinks. This dynamic does take some restructuring as far as time and everything you listed above. Now is the time to establish wants, needs, and limits. Naturally, over time things may and possible should change. You have to have a starting point, right? Definitely in our infantry and steadfastly growing.

Definitely trying to breathe and hope for the absolute best for all of us. Thank you and hugs back!

__________________Ry - Me. Panromantic demisexual with a history of polyamorist tendencies. Married to...Matt (Hubby) - The once distant stranger that I complement beautifully. DH of 13 years and father of our four children.Closed.