As a DM player from the 80's and 90's who attended a few conventions, participated in many tourneys and graduated many "unspoiled" glads to ADM and Primus, I'm a big fan of this genre. Lately, I've been looking around for other games like DM to play online. I've been playing "Pit of War" recently, so I thought I'd share my assessment of it from a Duel2 manager's point of view for people who might be interested in it.

Here's a link to check it out:

TOP 5 REASONS I LIKE IT:
1) It's ONLINE and it's FREE. Yes, there is a trophy reward system in-game, but you can get to the highest levels of the game without spending a dime. (At one point I was spending about $150 a month on Duelmasters...so, believe me, I understand the addiction.)

2) The developer constantly interacts with his player-base and is always adding new features to the game and re-balancing in response to that input. (Contrast this with the fact that Duel2 has not changed one bit in decades...balancing issues, anyone?)

3) There are a variety of ways to play - PvP, Conquests, Pit fights - there's a lot more variety of gameplay - and if you like to play all day, you can do that in Pit of War - mining the Conquests for better gear, testing out new strategies, etc.

4) The end-game is more interesting with strategy triggers that you can set that alter the behavior of your glad in the middle of a fight. Examples of triggers would be "opponent is on the ground" or "opponent is attacking less than you" or "I am very injured". At the top level of the game, it's all about your strategies and your opponent's counter-strategies. You'll find you have the advantage one day only to see your opponent tweak their strategy and gain the advantage over you the next. Keeps you on your toes seeking the strategic advantage! A true thinking person's game.

5) A lot more variety in armor, weaponry, styles and races that each play a role in determining your glad's strengths and weaknesses. That along with skill trees that you can develop to customize your glad even more so it fights exactly as you want it to fight. And more skills and styles are being added to further deepen the options for customizing your build.

Those are the main reasons I think Pit of War is worth checking out. But it is still a work in progress, so there are some things I initially had to get over as a DM player playing Pit of War.

TOP 5 THINGS I HAD TO GET USED TO:
1) The fight dialogues aren't yet as exciting or detailed. In particular the way DM details the initiative battle helps bring such realism to the fights. Pit of War is still working on getting the fight dialogues up to par with DM. But if you allow that the developer will improve this over time, you can start to appreciate the other strategic elements that make Pit of War stand out as a brilliant strategic 1v1 PvP arena fighting game in its own right.

2) The challenge/avoid system doesn't work quite as well as in DM. So sometimes people challenge you multiple times in a row...which is not fun when their build is perfectly suited to crush yours...This is mitigated in the top bracket because there are no more challenges/avoids at the top level. Everyone has to go through a fight queue that includes everyone else in that bracket - so you can get a "true" ranking of your glad in relation to their peers.

3) The stat bonuses on items means people with better gear will be better gladiators. Finding the right gear to complement your build strategy takes a long time...and lots of losses while you wait to optimize your build while fighting fully optimized glads. Grinding to get better gear is precisely that...a grind. But once you've got what you want, it's quite satisfying watching your strategies come alive and work effectively against your opponents.

4) The early levels of the game aren't that competitively challenging. So you fly up the rankings thinking you're amazing - even going undefeated for vast stretches. But once you hit the higher brackets, you hit a wall and you discover the strategies that worked in the early game are no longer viable against more seasoned opponents. Weeds out the pretenders from the contenders. You can have the best roll-up on a glad, but if he's run with poor strategies, he'll get his rear kicked every time.

5) The idea of having skills to pick and train was off-putting at first coming from the basic PvP dynamics of DM. I used to think the simplicity of DM made it that much more of a pure 1v1 PvP strategy game. It took a while for me to come around to the idea that having the option to design my glad's build more carefully with skills, races, items, and strategies was a deeper and more engaged 1v1 PvP environment.

So Pit of War is a work in progress. But at least there's an active developer who constantly works to make the game better. It's kinda fun to make suggestions directly to the developer and have him implement them in the game straight away.

I figure there's people here who might be interested in both DM and PoW - hence the post. If you happen to try it out, give me a shout-out on the forums over there and I'll try to help you get situated.

- Adoede

Last edited by Adoede on Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:55 am; edited 7 times in total

OtisMaster Poster

Joined: Jul 28, 2002
Posts: 235
Location: Florida

Posted:
Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:18 am

Good for you. Most people here have tried PoW I am sure. I lost interest in it very quickly. Good job coming onto the D2 site to push it as an alternative to drive business away from RSI instead of just saying "Hey, check this out!". Seems like a real douchebag move. Hope your post gets deleted.

_________________47-Cheers
103- The Mongoloids, etc

Back one of these years with full stables elsewhere.

AdoedeUnchartered Poster

Joined: Aug 03, 2014
Posts: 41

Posted:
Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:47 am

Hey Otis, RSI could also just make an online version - which I've already said in another post would be my preference by far. But we've already had that discussion, and for whatever reason, its a no-go.

I'll try to edit the post a bit to make it more neutral for ya though

DenMaster Poster

Joined: Aug 16, 2003
Posts: 267
Location: Osceola, WI

Posted:
Tue Aug 19, 2014 6:38 am

Had a friend play PoW about 10 years ago...everything you talk about that needs to be improved is exactly what he talked about 10 years ago when he quit playing it. So, the developer may be actively involved in the player base but it does not look like he is actively involved in making the game any better.

If an online game is your first priority, then play one, Duelmasters is not an online game. You know, if you really enjoy eating burgers, why would you order sushi?

gentlebenArchMaster Poster

Joined: Aug 21, 2008
Posts: 3780
Location: Round Rock, Tx

Posted:
Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:36 am

Den wrote:

Had a friend play PoW about 10 years ago...everything you talk about that needs to be improved is exactly what he talked about 10 years ago when he quit playing it. So, the developer may be actively involved in the player base but it does not look like he is actively involved in making the game any better.

If an online game is your first priority, then play one, Duelmasters is not an online game. You know, if you really enjoy eating burgers, why would you order sushi?

Can't speak for your friend, but my experience with the developer has been great. In the few months I've been playing, here's a list of some of the changes I've seen:

Re-balancing of styles to address the emerging dominance of one style over the others
Introduction of Conquests - a team-play dungeon creep addition to get access to better upper-level gear
Introduction of Gauntlets - a series of Pit-fight challenges - also with better gear prizes
Introduction of a new Team-based top-bracket format teaming managers together into 5 different factions
Introduction of thousands of new items to select from
Introduction of a 7th tier of arena challenges - a bit like the dark arena
New top tier skills for each style
A whole new school of fighting styles called Shadows and Myst to complement the base Arms and Armor school

Quite honestly, the initial game and the mid-game aren't that compelling because you're mainly just developing your builds. If you stop playing during this stretch, I fully understand why. But if you stick it out to the end-game in the blood gods bracket, then Pit of War really comes into its own. That's where every subtle shift in strategy makes a significant impact on a fight's outcome. You have to set your 5 "trigger" slots for strategies in such a way that it can overcome other manager's strategies and counter-strategies for your build. This is where every fighter truly is unique with their signature skill/race/gear/strategy combination. This is where it doesn't matter if you have the best roll-up in the game. How that glad is managed makes all the difference.

I've found it to be a more challenging strategic game at the highest level than DM - if you can get to that level. Different than DM, sure. But fun in a similar way strategically. Anyway, I find both games to be quite fun in the end-game.

GrimwoodAdvanced Expert Poster

Joined: Aug 26, 2003
Posts: 129
Location: Rocanis, Alastari

Posted:
Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:03 am

Hi Adoede,

Thank you for letting us know about Pit of War.

Based on the comments in your "Top 5 things I had to get used to", you might want to let your friends who play Pit of War know about Duel II, as I think they'd find it fun to check out. The roll-up is free to new players.

Thanks,
Grimwood

AdoedeUnchartered Poster

Joined: Aug 03, 2014
Posts: 41

Posted:
Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:56 pm

Sure, Grimwood. I've been constantly posting on the Pit of War forums about suggestions to make the PvP experience better - more like the DM gameplay. Other people on Pit of War who've played DM have also chimed in on those discussions and we've all said how nice it would be if there was an online version of DM - all while chatting up our favorite parts of DM. That's usually where the discussion trails off after we reminisce about getting Tank vs. Tank fights in the mail that were so long that they weighed 2-3 pounds

The ConsortiumArchMaster Poster

Joined: Nov 23, 2002
Posts: 9408
Location: on the golf course, in the garden, reading, traveling, and now Consulting

Posted:
Tue Aug 19, 2014 6:04 pm

We tried this some time ago. It had a "simplistic" feeling to it which couldn't addict us to it. We see that some of the items that deterred us are still there today. This is probably a fine alternative for some, but not for us.

Can't argue with you there. Imho, it's pretty bland all the way up until the end-game...but that part ends up being worth the slog. Some managers who can't make the strategy adjustment to the top bracket end up with a 10% win/loss rate and quit 'cuz they can't hack it - but if you are creative and clever with your strategies, you can take on most of the top contenders. I find that intellectual challenge to be quite fun.

Last edited by Adoede on Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

LongshotGrandmaster Poster

Joined: Sep 30, 2012
Posts: 784
Location: Port Moody, BC

Posted:
Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:23 am

I said this before and I was told i was being rude.
Adoede is a pushy door to door salesman.
If Duel II was a female, he would be in trouble for sexual harassment.

I think I played POW as well. I came back to Duelmasters.

Yes, I know it is called Duel II, but it will ALWAYS be Duel Masters to me.

AdoedeUnchartered Poster

Joined: Aug 03, 2014
Posts: 41

Posted:
Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:59 pm

Sorry if you guys don't like the topic, but I happen to love both DM and PoW and find it's nice to have another game to play between the 2 week turnaround of DM turns. DM is and will always be my first love for this style of gaming and the gold standard for other similar games to compare themselves to. But that doesn't mean I can't enjoy other similar games too and share about that with others who might enjoy them as well.

If being responsive to the comments in a thread I created is pushy and harassing, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about the purpose of forums and discussion threads. Either way, simply because one is online in an anonymous setting shouldn't translate into the right to be less than civil towards ones peers. For my part, I'm committed to respectful dialogue and am always willing to receive critique if it is warranted - indeed, I edited the original post to be more neutral because someone commented that it seemed a bit disrespectful (he was right, btw).

Longshot - respectful dialogue is what I think the others were advocating - something that I've found the DM forums generally do quite well in comparison with other forums I've visited. Hope we can engage in more genuinely thoughtful and constructive dialogue next time around.

gentlebenArchMaster Poster

Joined: Aug 21, 2008
Posts: 3780
Location: Round Rock, Tx

Posted:
Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:41 pm

I did play pit of war also for a while and like the Consortium I found it a little basic. I do not like games where I click buttons and that is it. The strategy part was not really there that I found.

I also played another online game that was FB based, can't remember the name and found it more fun than PoW. These are just my opinions. If that game that I can't remember the name too came back I would play it again.

If being responsive to the comments in a thread I created is pushy and harassing, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about the purpose of forums and discussion threads. Either way, simply because one is online in an anonymous setting shouldn't translate into the right to be less than civil towards ones peers. For my part, I'm committed to respectful dialogue and am always willing to receive critique if it is warranted - indeed, I edited the original post to be more neutral because someone commented that it seemed a bit disrespectful (he was right, btw).

Longshot - respectful dialogue is what I think the others were advocating - something that I've found the DM forums generally do quite well in comparison with other forums I've visited. Hope we can engage in more genuinely thoughtful and constructive dialogue next time around.

I was respectful. I didn't insult you. But did point out your behaviour I just made a joke about it instead of calling you a pushy a-hole or something in that vein.

First: you show up and talk about the game becoming an app or moving to e-mail. You are told that it isn't possible because of contractual agreements. You then mention contacting the owner to bug him. You also talk about getting a kick starter and doing the game. Even after someone told you to leave well enough alone.

Second: You then show up exactly two weeks later and post about Pit of War and how cool it is. Which is just as bad as the spammers who sneak on here.

I guess we'll see you in two more weeks when you introduce your own game; Duel Pit of War Masters. Or DPOWM for short.