Very good. Those pictures are greatly facing the reality of war - there is zero glory in it.

obi

03-31-2003, 05:27 PM

I don't like a few of those first pictures. Some of them are fakes, I can tell. However, I am sure similar situations are taking place in the bombing(The families loosing their homes, for example).

And pic number 2, I do not know why the guy has his hands up. The Soldier is not pointing his gun at him.

Pic 7, I have no idea what those people are doing. I honestly don't. Are they trying to stop the tanks some how?

And pic 10, the old lady, shewas like that already. The war has only been going on for about 2 weeks, so how do we really know that the war has caused her to be like that? Because there are a few soldiers in the background? Sort of jumping to conclusions, I think for this pic.

Pic 11 I understand. Sometimes, the iraqi military disguises themselves as civilians to sneak-attack soldiers. Can't be too careful, just make sure not to hurt anyone in the investigations. I guess this scene can be viewed as brutal-like.

Pic 12 - They didn't want to be shot, simple. If I were in their situation, I would be doing the same thing.

Pic 13- I am sure that has happened, and that is a real photo.

Don't ge me wrong, I am in no way shape or form trying to defend any brutal acts, I am just explaining my opinions on these pics.

griff38

03-31-2003, 07:20 PM

All photos but 1 are linked from Msnbc, Cnn, or BBC websites. I honestly do not believe there are any fakes. Right click on the photo and check properties, you can see the URL. The only one not linked from those sites is #5. It was on BBC who considered it too graphic to be linked. I downloaded it and linked it from my page.

The only point I want to make is war is hell. It's not all glory and honor.
I don't think any photo implies brutality of personal coalition soldiers. Bombing errors are brutal for sure, but the US & British soldiers have been very humane.

Oh great, now i am a Wookie.

XERXES

03-31-2003, 07:35 PM

so your saying my thread wasnt serious??? I took a LOT of time to put that together.

one cannot expect this war, or ANY war for that matter to be a "clean" war. It is unrealistic to say civilians wont be killed (women and children included). I know this sounds harsh...but, there will be innocent deaths...face it. I cant stand how people are saying things like the troops are being inhumane...given the circumstances that they are put in...sometimes they have no choice.

have you guys seen/heard about this?? http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=514&e=2&u=/ap/20030331/ap_on_re_mi_ea/war_us_military_369

I cannot believe the way that article is written...the drivers of the car ignored warning shots and verbal warnings to stop...therefore they paid the consequences. The soldiers were just doing what they are being told to do.

how are you guys going to feel about 25 years form now, when many countries start to go at it for clean and pure water supplies...

griff38

03-31-2003, 07:58 PM

Man, I am sorry. I looked back and agree that was not the right thing to say. I changed it a little, I hope thats better.

Hey I enjoyed your photos, but's lets face it you have an agenda.
But that's totally OK with me. I have an agenda also :)

Perhaps between us, those interested will find a satisfying
medium.

You said, "therefore they paid the consequences.

Why can't you feel sorry for these poor people? Even just a tiny bit? Maybe the driver was wrong for not stopping but, should they die for it?

obi

03-31-2003, 10:08 PM

hmm...

I thought some of them were fake, because the lighting didn't look right in a few...oh well, I guess it's just the way the sun shines over there.

*shrugs*

SkinWalker

03-31-2003, 10:39 PM

It's very likely that these civilians were told that if they stopped at an American/coalition check point, they'd be executed. That's the only reason I can think that they might not head the warnings. To them, it may have been better to chance running a check point than stopping.

If this is the case, then the Iraqi government won a small victory since now they can point out our willingness to kill women and children. Even though the soldiers/marines on the ground had no other recourse.

Sad...

I for one like the pics, Griff. And Xerxes, I'd like to see your thread too. What's the link? Is it under Galactic Battles Forum?

Thats a good idea... two threads, two slants, both with news/updates and a place for us to comment. I see no other way to find the truth..

Originally posted by XERXES
I cannot believe the way that article is written...the drivers of the car ignored warning shots and verbal warnings to stop...therefore they paid the consequences. The soldiers were just doing what they are being told to do.

In the heat of the moment, those warning shots might have been mistaken for the US troops firing at them. Or maybe they were just trying to get the hell away from that checkpoint.

No, you can't really blame the American troops for that. Of course not. But it's still a load of f*ck right when they don't need it.

This is amazingly good, free propaganda for the Iraqi government. Still, it's a damn shame and bad luck those civilians died.

C'jais

04-01-2003, 09:30 AM

Good pictures.

While the media of course doesn't have unrestricted access to the war, they do a good job at portraying the brutality and devastation of it.

Luc Solar

04-01-2003, 09:30 AM

LOL! This one was hilarious:

pic (http://www.msnbc.com/c/0/145/115/10x7/030324_war_04.jpg)

I can imagine what happens next:

Hmm...what's this shiny red button?

...

o.O .... guys....hey guys!? I think...I think I might have done something I shouldn't have...did you take those missiles off this thing yet? ...no? Oh man...

RUUUUUUNNNNN!!! RRRRRRRUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!

:D

ShadowTemplar

04-01-2003, 09:38 AM

Originally posted by XERXES
one cannot expect this war, or ANY war for that matter to be a "clean" war. It is unrealistic to say civilians wont be killed (women and children included). I know this sounds harsh...but, there will be innocent deaths...face it. I cant stand how people are saying things like the troops are being inhumane...given the circumstances that they are put in...sometimes they have no choice.

Point.

Originally posted by XERXES
I cannot believe the way that article is written...the drivers of the car ignored warning shots and verbal warnings to stop...therefore they paid the consequences. The soldiers were just doing what they are being told to do.

You can't blame the soldiers, true. Personally I'd blame the Fedayeen for making the real soldiers paranoid about people dressed up in civil. Words cannot adequately portray my disgust and contempt for people who fight in civil and are insane enough to blow themselves up for their cause. I mean going on a high-risk mission is brave, but going on a suicide mission is just plainly being a lunatic. And such lunatics make everybody paranoid... And paranoia leads to itchy trigger fingers, which is by no means a good thing.

Originally posted by XERXES
how are you guys going to feel about 25 years form now, when many countries start to go at it for clean and pure water supplies...

Israel is doing so already, and I can tell you that it isn't pretty.

griff38

04-01-2003, 10:00 AM

Originally posted by Luc Solar
LOL! This one was hilarious:

pic (http://www.msnbc.com/c/0/145/115/10x7/030324_war_04.jpg)

I can imagine what happens next:

Well since you asked, according to CNN, we hit this and the other downed Apache with airstrikes about 5 hours after this photo was taken. Coalition leaders decided to let the Iraqis have smoking craters instead of US hardware.

Hope those kids in the picture went home before this happened.

SkinWalker

04-01-2003, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by ShadowTemplar
Words cannot adequately portray my disgust and contempt for people who fight in civil and are insane enough to blow themselves up for their cause. I mean going on a high-risk mission is brave, but going on a suicide mission is just plainly being a lunatic. And such lunatics make everybody paranoid... And paranoia leads to itchy trigger fingers, which is by no means a good thing.

Not that I agree with them, but here's something that I found that gave me a different perspective. I first heard this story last month on NPR. If we are to be more successful than Israel at dealing with this type of threat, new perspectives might be needed.

THX. Well, not that there is anything new to the fact that education doesn't prevent people from becoming suicide bombers. Mohammad Atta was attending a German university as he was recruited to the Al Qaeda.

But I think that they make a mistake of using the Israel/Palestine conflict for their survey. I mean, people who support Hussein because they think that it's 'the Muslim thing to do', clearly are ignorant of the facts.

On the other hand, the people who are educated in Palestine may be done so in schools that spew out propaganda for the Intefada, and also might learn just how much Israel has ****ed the Palestinians over the cause of history (not that the Palestinians are any better, but that's not very likely to appear in a Palestinian school).

So, in short, I think that it depends on the situation, whether education will harm or benefit... And the education, of course.

Uhhh.... did you bother to see where Griff has been hosting all these fake pics? It appears that our very own Griff38 is a MasterHacker! He puts all of his fake pics up on MSNBC, CBS, and the New York Times websites! Next thing you know, he'll be hosting these doctored photographs on BBC!

Originally posted by TheHobGoblin
I'll have more......
God Bless our soilders and America

Ditto..... and damn Bush for putting them in harm's way.

SkinWalker

04-04-2003, 01:39 AM

I can't just sit by and watch...... I run across some very interesting ones now and again:

Nice picks Hob, but number 2 is a fake. That's the same set in Hollywood they used to fake all those Moon Landings!

Just kidding, it's actually in Nevada.

Skinwalker yours are good also, I have never seen some of those. #9 is creepy, the Brit looks like someone just said "CHEESE".

C'jais

04-04-2003, 10:01 AM

Neat pics all four of you.

Keep 'em coming! :thumbsup:

CagedCrado

04-04-2003, 06:17 PM

Its all in the good of the people, and you all know as well as i do it is. Youve all seen pictures of Halapja right? and the shi'ites he gassed?
*DO NOT CLICK IF YOU GAG MILDLY EASY*
http://www.intelmessages.org/Hack/images/Kurds/Collage/collag5.jpg this sums it up i think, saddam ordered this attack on Halapja (which i believe all of those pictures are off)

http://vons.free.fr/maisons/2717_IMG.jpg
Americans dead so that the people of europe could be free

griff38

04-04-2003, 07:15 PM

Thanks CagedCrado. I looked everywhere for those photos of Halapja, Not for this thread though. Although they do make my point that war is horrible I want to stick to current stuff from the ongoing conflict.

All of these are less than 7 days old. All are Iraqi civilians or as some with weak stomachs call "collateral damage".

Or as my X barber said the other day, "Fools, what did they expect getting in OUR way? Next time they will think twice about going to market while a war is on.
84 (http://images.latimes.com/media/photo/2003-04/7247674.jpg)
85 (http://images.latimes.com/media/photo/2003-04/7247653.jpg)
86 (http://images.latimes.com/media/photo/2003-04/7247671.jpg)
87 (http://images.latimes.com/media/photo/2003-04/7247659.jpg)
88 (http://images.latimes.com/media/photo/2003-03/7191409.jpg)
89 (http://images.latimes.com/media/photo/2003-03/7191420.jpg)
90 (http://images.latimes.com/media/photo/2003-03/7187724.jpg)
91 (http://images.latimes.com/media/photo/2003-03/7186648.jpg)
92 (http://images.latimes.com/media/photo/2003-03/7186627.jpg)
93 (http://images.latimes.com/media/photo/2003-03/7218101.jpg)

C'jais

04-04-2003, 07:28 PM

Originally posted by CagedCrado
Its all in the good of the people, and you all know as well as i do it is. Youve all seen pictures of Halapja right? and the shi'ites he gassed?
*DO NOT CLICK IF YOU GAG MILDLY EASY*

That's a truth in disguise. Iran and Iraq were fighting over that village, and they both bombarded it with chemical weapons - Iran used a nerve agent on it, and Iraq used mustard gas.

To state that he simply gassed those Kurds because he felt like, or that he did it all of his own volition is not true.

http://vons.free.fr/maisons/2717_IMG.jpg
Americans dead so that the people of europe could be free

Of course, USA only intervened once they were hit on their own turf, and they only saved Europe because it was in their interest. They didn't do it solely because it was a humanitarian wrong - if Hitler took control of Europe, USA would likely be next. USA had until then a firm non-intervention policy, and they frankly didn't give a sh*t about the Brits or Europe until they felt the threat up close.

CagedCrado

04-04-2003, 07:31 PM

Halapja looks a bit more disgusting then that.... actually a lot more. Not to mention the reason they are getting killed, at Halapja the people were killed for 'racial cleansing', the people dying in iraq now will probably be the last to die because of dictatorships. (BTW bush is not a dictator and if you want a dictatorship look at france china or iraq, or germany before 1945)

ya you are right about that c'jais. but we learned and now europe is making the same mistake.

maybe at halapja but tell that to the shi'ites and the rest of the kurds who died. Also Iran didnt start the war either... saddam did. Everything that happened was directly linked to saddam.

El Sitherino

04-04-2003, 07:34 PM

Originally posted by C'jais
Of course, USA only intervened once they were hit on their own turf, and they only saved Europe because it was in their interest. They didn't do it solely because it was a humanitarian wrong - if Hitler took control of Europe, USA would likely be next. USA had until then a firm non-intervention policy, and they frankly didn't give a sh*t about the Brits or Europe until they felt the threat up close. w3rd dude

CagedCrado

04-04-2003, 07:35 PM

oh and if we didnt care about you then why did we give your countries back? would have been nice to have that land in the cold war. Of course, that was when you remembered.

C'jais

04-04-2003, 08:01 PM

Originally posted by CagedCrado
oh and if we didnt care about you then why did we give your countries back? would have been nice to have that land in the cold war. Of course, that was when you remembered.

Nono, don't take it the wrong way.

I said that it wasn't solely for humanitarian reasons that you intervened. Thank God you did, but USA did have some less than noble motives involved as well.

But why is this a bad thing? Every country that goes to war are seeking to gain something from the conflict, otherwise it just won't be worth it.

CagedCrado

04-04-2003, 08:08 PM

ahhh, ya every country that goes to war has something to gain, the only time i can think of when we went to war for entirely noble reasons was somalia and vietnam, both time it didnt work out. Theres not enough motivation to win without incentives, otherwise we could finish off a lot of problems in the world.

SkinWalker

04-06-2003, 01:54 PM

Not necessarily pro- or anti- war.... just photos with their own stories... I'll let 'em speak.