This isn't the place for a debate about the science (or lack of it) of homosexuality, so I'll say my piece and go away. Nothing I might say will convince you, nor any of my experiences with gay people I have known or seen grow up. I will just say that it is evident that you don't know any gay people -- or people who are known to you to be gay. In my opinion it is not a learned behavior -- or a result of abuse or "recruitment." There are undoubtedly lots of gay people among professional athletes, most of whom have not come out because of fear of reactions like yours from teammates or other athletes or fans. That fear today seems justified, so I admire JC for being willing to go it alone, even if he is just a journeyman. We can differ on whether or not he is cynically seeking to prolong his career -- but someone needed to be the first to come out in the locker room, and it might as well be him. Ultimately, whether or not a pro is gay has no bearing on whether or not he can play, but since pros have been playing and showering alongside of gay teammates for decades, might as well get admitting it over with. If someone's uncomfortable with it, that's his problem, and up to him to deal with it in whatever way he can, but the gay teammate shouldn't have to hide it.

That's my piece. I'l drop it now and move to other threads.

cheers --

well, you're wrong. i know and have known them all my life. next.

why would ANYONE fear my reaction? my reaction to the jason collins "coming out" was WHO CARES... my reaction became pointed against those who claimed that providing TMI to a press agent was an act of heroism and calling that for the garbage that it is. and everything else that i have posted on this thread was IN DEFENSE of ATTACKS THAT WERE LEVELED AT ME that ranged the gamut- that "gay is genetic", that collins is a hero, that i am a bigot and so on and so forth.

when attacked, i defend myself. to most of the sheeple in the world that makes you guilty of hate crimes and you should be locked away forever. meanwhile they are the ones who are vicious in their attacks, affixing blanket detractions to people like "bigot", "hateful" and other wonderful flowery terms to try to make you feel bad, shut up and go away, because they know that they cannot win a debate.

and then here comes you, to lecture me about how i've never met or known a gay person and how i am somehow the reason that these people quake in their boots about coming out. the entire extent of my commentary about jason collins coming out was "who cares". and then the attacks started coming in like ants at a picnic. i don't know how "who cares" could be construed as a threat unless you have already spent decades fashioning yourself as some member of an incurable and long suffering victim group.

Collins was a college classmate of Chelsea Clinton - I suspect his announcement is tied to a promised government job from Team Clinton, then he will probably announce he's running for elected office.

i suspect the announcement is directly related to the PENDING congressional bill that seeks to codify "gay discrimination in the work place" and make a few trial lawyers richer yet than ever before with a scourge of "i have hurt feelings" lawsuits to follow.

does anyone know when this congressional bill is going to be heard on the floor of CONgress? why it's this week!!!

Collins was a college classmate of Chelsea Clinton - I suspect his announcement is tied to a promised government job from Team Clinton, then he will probably announce he's running for elected office.

i suspect the announcement is directly related to the PENDING congressional bill that seeks to codify "gay discrimination in the work place" and make a few trial lawyers richer yet than ever before with a scourge of "i have hurt feelings" lawsuits to follow.

does anyone know when this congressional bill is going to be heard on the floor of CONgress? why it's this week!!!

People like you will always be BEHIND THE CURVE. If someone like JC had "come out" 30 years ago, there would have been significantly more bigoted comments on this thread. And 30 years from now, one's sexual preference won't be an issue. Today you "came out" as a bigot.

How some of you are atttacking acie as a bigot or anti-gay simply for voicing his opinion the JC outting is a non event is beyond me. If anything, characterizing it as a non event supports the idea that acie isnt bigoted or anti gay. He just doesnt care and neither do I.

My feeling is some people need to fall all over themselves to prove to the rest they are not bigoted or racist...even if they really may be. Looking for an opening to go on the attack cements you as an allie.

Everyone has their own opinion as to wether the JC news is worthy of headlines or heroic accolades.. Thats the gist of this threads posts. Being of the opinion its not heroic or headlines news doesnt make you anti gay. However, attacking people for holding this position is lame and a cheap shot... an easy way to pretend to be offended so you can show everyone what a supportive person you are.. sad imo

THis is plain and simple wrong as far as I'm concerned. I don't have a problem with "sexual orientation", but I do have a problem with deceit! How is it that Jason Collins, who has been sitting in a locker room for the last 12 years, watching male genitals of all different sizes and proportions parade past his lustful gaze, now being swept under the carpet and the deceitful act being ignored? The fact of the matter is that Jason Collins, is excited about men the same way a heterosexual is excited about the opposite sex! Take any average heterosexual male, and put a naked woman in the room with them, and watch what happens. There is a reason why locker rooms are not coed! It's not rocket science here it is simply the natural order of things. Please...somebody (maybe we have some gay members on this forum) explain to me how it is ok, for Jason Collins to have shared locker rooms with men and not have disclosed to them that "oh by the way, I like to perform oral sex on men." By his own admittance to the fact that he is gay, he has most assuredly perfomed and received oral sex, engaged in anal sex, become sexually aroused at the sight of naked men. It's how it works! We all know that sexual excitement is necessary to engage in sex, whether it be vaginally or anally and JC has had many erections over the years because he is excited about naked men! Again...I could care less whether he is gay, or anybody else for that matter, but you sure as hell better not sit in a locker room and never disclose that you are gay. Taslk about the ultimate deceitfull act.

Is my view outdated? Perhaps. I also happen to believe that sex with animals is wrong. Go ahead, call me a prude.

THis is plain and simple wrong as far as I'm concerned. I don't have a problem with "sexual orientation", but I do have a problem with deceit! How is it that Jason Collins, who has been sitting in a locker room for the last 12 years, watching male genitals of all different sizes and proportions parade past his lustful gaze, now being swept under the carpet and the deceitful act being ignored? The fact of the matter is that Jason Collins, is excited about men the same way a heterosexual is excited about the opposite sex! Take any average heterosexual male, and put a naked woman in the room with them, and watch what happens. There is a reason why locker rooms are not coed! It's not rocket science here it is simply the natural order of things. Please...somebody (maybe we have some gay members on this forum) explain to me how it is ok, for Jason Collins to have shared locker rooms with men and not have disclosed to them that "oh by the way, I like to perform oral sex on men." By his own admittance to the fact that he is gay, he has most assuredly perfomed and received oral sex, engaged in anal sex, become sexually aroused at the sight of naked men. It's how it works! We all know that sexual excitement is necessary to engage in sex, whether it be vaginally or anally and JC has had many erections over the years because he is excited about naked men! Again...I could care less whether he is gay, or anybody else for that matter, but you sure as hell better not sit in a locker room and never disclose that you are gay. Taslk about the ultimate deceitfull act.

Is my view outdated? Perhaps. I also happen to believe that sex with animals is wrong. Go ahead, call me a prude.

Setting aside your ridiculous last sentence ... do you actually believe Jason Collins was "sexually aroused" in the shower stall with his teammates?

THis is plain and simple wrong as far as I'm concerned. I don't have a problem with "sexual orientation", but I do have a problem with deceit! How is it that Jason Collins, who has been sitting in a locker room for the last 12 years, watching male genitals of all different sizes and proportions parade past his lustful gaze, now being swept under the carpet and the deceitful act being ignored? The fact of the matter is that Jason Collins, is excited about men the same way a heterosexual is excited about the opposite sex! Take any average heterosexual male, and put a naked woman in the room with them, and watch what happens. There is a reason why locker rooms are not coed! It's not rocket science here it is simply the natural order of things. Please...somebody (maybe we have some gay members on this forum) explain to me how it is ok, for Jason Collins to have shared locker rooms with men and not have disclosed to them that "oh by the way, I like to perform oral sex on men." By his own admittance to the fact that he is gay, he has most assuredly perfomed and received oral sex, engaged in anal sex, become sexually aroused at the sight of naked men. It's how it works! We all know that sexual excitement is necessary to engage in sex, whether it be vaginally or anally and JC has had many erections over the years because he is excited about naked men! Again...I could care less whether he is gay, or anybody else for that matter, but you sure as hell better not sit in a locker room and never disclose that you are gay. Taslk about the ultimate deceitfull act.

Is my view outdated? Perhaps. I also happen to believe that sex with animals is wrong. Go ahead, call me a prude.

Setting aside your ridiculous last sentence ... do you actually believe Jason Collins was "sexually aroused" in the shower stall with his teammates?

I'll answer that with a question. Would you be sexually aroused in a shower room with a naked woman? (of course I'm making an assumption that you are straight)

Collins was a college classmate of Chelsea Clinton - I suspect his announcement is tied to a promised government job from Team Clinton, then he will probably announce he's running for elected office.

i suspect the announcement is directly related to the PENDING congressional bill that seeks to codify "gay discrimination in the work place" and make a few trial lawyers richer yet than ever before with a scourge of "i have hurt feelings" lawsuits to follow.

does anyone know when this congressional bill is going to be heard on the floor of CONgress? why it's this week!!!

WHY ARE YOU CALLING ME A BIGOT ? I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH COLLINS ! PLUS, THE 2nD HALF OF THE QUOTE YOU COPIED AND PASTED WAS NOT WRITTEN BY ME (THE PART ABOUT THE CONGRESSIONAL BILL) , WHY DID YOU INCLUDE THAT AND TRY TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE I WROTE IT ?

LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE THE BIGOT - DISTORTING AND DEMONIZING ANYONE WITH A VIEW YOU DON'T AGREE WITH......I SUSPECT YOU DREAM ABOUT LIVING IN A COUNTRY WITH A LEADER LIKE HITLER, STALIN, MAO, CASTRO or CHAVEZ - LEADERS WHO MURDERED MILLIONS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE FOR QUESTIONING THEIR AUTHORITY.......PEOPLE LIKE YOU SCARE ME. YOU'D LIKE TO SEE 60MILLION AMERICANS IN CONCENTRATION CAMPS WOULDN'T YOU ?

People like you will always be BEHIND THE CURVE. If someone like JC had "come out" 30 years ago, there would have been significantly more bigoted comments on this thread. And 30 years from now, one's sexual preference won't be an issue. Today you "came out" as a bigot.

Why arent men allowed in a womens locker room while theyre walking around naked?

I understand jhols point with respect to that. Is a matter of privacy imo. Interesting point

Finally someone gets it! If it's ok for JC to be in the locker room with heterosexual men, then its ok for men and woman to share locker rooms. Let's start at an early age, so we don't confuse the poor children.

Why arent men allowed in a womens locker room while theyre walking around naked?

I understand jhols point with respect to that. Is a matter of privacy imo. Interesting point

Finally someone gets it! If it's ok for JC to be in the locker room with heterosexual men, then its ok for men and woman to share locker rooms. Let's start at an early age, so we don't confuse the poor children.

Oh I get it.

It's just impossible to enforce. How many gay guys do you think have played pro sports?

Collins was a college classmate of Chelsea Clinton - I suspect his announcement is tied to a promised government job from Team Clinton, then he will probably announce he's running for elected office.

i suspect the announcement is directly related to the PENDING congressional bill that seeks to codify "gay discrimination in the work place" and make a few trial lawyers richer yet than ever before with a scourge of "i have hurt feelings" lawsuits to follow.

does anyone know when this congressional bill is going to be heard on the floor of CONgress? why it's this week!!!

WHY ARE YOU CALLING ME A BIGOT ? I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH COLLINS ! PLUS, THE 2nD HALF OF THE QUOTE YOU COPIED AND PASTED WAS NOT WRITTEN BY ME (THE PART ABOUT THE CONGRESSIONAL BILL) , WHY DID YOU INCLUDE THAT AND TRY TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE I WROTE IT ?

LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE THE BIGOT - DISTORTING AND DEMONIZING ANYONE WITH A VIEW YOU DON'T AGREE WITH......I SUSPECT YOU DREAM ABOUT LIVING IN A COUNTRY WITH A LEADER LIKE HITLER, STALIN, MAO, CASTRO or CHAVEZ - LEADERS WHO MURDERED MILLIONS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE FOR QUESTIONING THEIR AUTHORITY.......PEOPLE LIKE YOU SCARE ME. YOU'D LIKE TO SEE 60MILLION AMERICANS IN CONCENTRATION CAMPS WOULDN'T YOU ?

People like you will always be BEHIND THE CURVE. If someone like JC had "come out" 30 years ago, there would have been significantly more bigoted comments on this thread. And 30 years from now, one's sexual preference won't be an issue. Today you "came out" as a bigot.

The timing of this thing is clearly motivated by something to gain...(the presiden call him to offer support) boo hoo....we shall soon find out ...

While in the Military 50+ years ago, I was not aware of anyone with whom I came in contact who was gay. Then I heard one approached a straight soldier & he was made to wear a pink uniform for a week. Of course, there were gays then but they did not dare come out of the closet. I don't care if someone is gay only that in combat, we are all in close contact, foxholes etc., but, and it has been mentioned, in the showers I believe I would be uncomfortable with someone who might be aroused being around heterosexual men. I suggest, and why not until we let men & women shower together, let the gays have their showers enclosed like a bathroom toilet stall. The moral of troops and athletes is most important and not being comfortable with someone sexually aroused by seeing other men can cause disharmony !

And, yup, I've found my female partner & opponent very appealing at times and as I used to say when I went to confession, forgive me Father for I have had impure thoughts !!!

There is also evidence to say that gay people, while "born straight", have experienced, at one time or another, some kind of abuse. And it is that event that "changed" them. HARDLY a choice................

I believe one is born that way...........I have several members of my family who are gay, and were hardly "shocked" when any of them announced it............I have done research, and no amount of contradictory statements will change my mind.

As for Jason Collins - it doesn't make any difference to me one way or the other..... I would welcome him back here if Doc and Danny thought he could help.

what is the specific science that you hang your hat on? the temple of "our father of perpetual social justice"?

i guess your last sentence really sums it up- you would welcome him back if danny or doc thought he could help. DID collins "help" here? no. the rookie sullinger quickly proved how useless collins is as a 7 foot slob who can't move or rebound. and sullinger is only 6-7 and could do so much more. and with a bad back.

How some of you are atttacking acie as a bigot or anti-gay simply for voicing his opinion the JC outting is a non event is beyond me. If anything, characterizing it as a non event supports the idea that acie isnt bigoted or anti gay. He just doesnt care and neither do I.

My feeling is some people need to fall all over themselves to prove to the rest they are not bigoted or racist...even if they really may be. Looking for an opening to go on the attack cements you as an allie.

Everyone has their own opinion as to wether the JC news is worthy of headlines or heroic accolades.. Thats the gist of this threads posts. Being of the opinion its not heroic or headlines news doesnt make you anti gay. However, attacking people for holding this position is lame and a cheap shot... an easy way to pretend to be offended so you can show everyone what a supportive person you are.. sad imo

bingo!! it's a preposterous parade of self hating losers. it's like they are stirred up into a sugar high by the progressive establishment and it's time to play "pin the bigot sign on the dissenter" so they furiously look for any dissension, even if it is NOT based in bigotry or hatred and then mislabel it in order to feel their disordered self loathing triumph sensation.

this is the toil that so many in this country engage in- trying to neuter conversations and distort topics and besmirch people. what a precipitious fall from greatness it has been

There is also evidence to say that gay people, while "born straight", have experienced, at one time or another, some kind of abuse. And it is that event that "changed" them. HARDLY a choice................

I believe one is born that way...........I have several members of my family who are gay, and were hardly "shocked" when any of them announced it............I have done research, and no amount of contradictory statements will change my mind.

As for Jason Collins - it doesn't make any difference to me one way or the other..... I would welcome him back here if Doc and Danny thought he could help.

what is the specific science that you hang your hat on? the temple of "our father of perpetual social justice"?

i guess your last sentence really sums it up- you would welcome him back if danny or doc thought he could help. DID collins "help" here? no. the rookie sullinger quickly proved how useless collins is as a 7 foot slob who can't move or rebound. and sullinger is only 6-7 and could do so much more. and with a bad back.

and if Sully is gay, I would appreciate he level of play..as long as I don't have to hear about his sexuality and have it thrown in my face...keep it to yourself,,i dont' care!!!

I'll answer that with a question. Would you be sexually aroused in a shower room with a naked woman? (of course I'm making an assumption that you are straight)

It would depend on the setting. Romance is romance, work is work. Jason Collins has been using the same shower stalls as men his entire life. And given the obvious difficulty in concealing it -- as we guys all remember from slow-dancing at the 8th grade dance -- it's pretty apparent that he never became "sexually aroused."

Two words, incidentally, I never figured I'd be using on the Celtics board.

People like you will always be BEHIND THE CURVE. If someone like JC had "come out" 30 years ago, there would have been significantly more bigoted comments on this thread. And 30 years from now, one's sexual preference won't be an issue. Today you "came out" as a bigot.

please explain what bigotry i engaged in. all i did was disagree that this was 1) newsworthy or 2) courageous and further to that pointed out the curious coincidence that there is pending legislation on "gay discrimination in the workplace" to hit the floor of Congress THIS WEEK. that's two basic vanilla opinions and one fact.

i have suffered discrimination in the workplace, based on my religion. i complained about the prejudice (derogatory comments made to me as I headed into a Christian gift shop on lunch break) and was soon fired when the bigoted duo STAGED an "incident" where i threatened one of them somehow- i never even wanted to know the details and just moved to my standing job offer that was there just because of how unstable these fools were, and how cowardly the company had acted in not confronting them.

following my firing others began to state in exit interviews that there was indeed discrimination going on and who was doing it. only then were the parties removed from power at the firm. the offending party was a partner, and by then he had built a little don corleone circle of like minded bigots who numbered four. they were all fired.

at that same workplace there were multiple gay people working and nobody cared one way or another about their preferences. what anyone cared about was their professional competence- it was a service firm and everyone's performance on a job was inter-dependent- if an engagement went poorly, nobody got off scot-free. i wish the ones who were focused on gratuitiously persecuting my religion, and purposefully making anyone who was Christian feel uncomfortable or want to go away would have just focused on my qualifications and expertise.

WHY ARE YOU CALLING ME A BIGOT ? I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH COLLINS ! PLUS, THE 2nD HALF OF THE QUOTE YOU COPIED AND PASTED WAS NOT WRITTEN BY ME (THE PART ABOUT THE CONGRESSIONAL BILL) , WHY DID YOU INCLUDE THAT AND TRY TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE I WROTE IT ?

LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE THE BIGOT - DISTORTING AND DEMONIZING ANYONE WITH A VIEW YOU DON'T AGREE WITH......I SUSPECT YOU DREAM ABOUT LIVING IN A COUNTRY WITH A LEADER LIKE HITLER, STALIN, MAO, CASTRO or CHAVEZ - LEADERS WHO MURDERED MILLIONS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE FOR QUESTIONING THEIR AUTHORITY.......PEOPLE LIKE YOU SCARE ME. YOU'D LIKE TO SEE 60MILLION AMERICANS IN CONCENTRATION CAMPS WOULDN'T YOU ?

People like you will always be BEHIND THE CURVE. If someone like JC had "come out" 30 years ago, there would have been significantly more bigoted comments on this thread. And 30 years from now, one's sexual preference won't be an issue. Today you "came out" as a bigot.

1) WHO called you a bigot?! you seem to really like using this word. but have yet to use it properly

2) there's that "bigot" word again- can't you mix it up and accuse of a hate crime just for some variety? :-O

3) i did not copy and paste anything- i type it. and i did not "add it to make it look like you wrote it", rather i was merely sharing the information that is true- this bill is up for debate in congress this week

4) you are accusing me of being a stalinist, a maoist, a lover of all things hitler. yes, you really are. why i do not know. but it's interesting to watch an intellectual car crash such as what you have given to all of us here on the board. i keep rubbernecking back to it wondering what went wrong with the formation of your intellect

5) and....... we'll finish up by invoking the word "bigot" again in the context of if the world was more like me there would have been MORE BIGOTED COMMENTS in the thread, because i am a bigot, yet there is no evidence shown that i made one single bigoted statement.

all in all, great job. it was sure a memorable read. the same sort of disaster as watching jason collins try to play the center position well, or doc rivers devise and then coach a clever game plan. lololllol