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My point stands, if people just want to play this game now and well into the conceivable future, there is a lower cost and unlimited option available to them. If they want a physical copy, LRG is available to them with minimal effort.

So, it's a collectible, and 20 years later when developer-supported means of obtaining the games have probably dropped off, we're back to where we are now. Pay the 3+ figure collector price or else SORRY SOME OF US AREN'T WELL-OFF ENOUGH TO DO THAT hope piracy is an option.
(I want my games legit as much as possible but hell if I was going to pay a flipper $200, loose, for Surprise at Dinosaur Peak in roughly 2009, let alone $1000 or whatever now.
Say the game was originally $49.99 in 1994, even in 2009 that was nearly 3x the original MSRP (inflation adjusted to about $72). I don't think anyone but someone primarily concerned on the resale value would say that's a fair price to play the thing.)

What a terrible, completely unnecessary salesmodel! Everyone with a minimum of common sense saw this coming when 'Limited Run Games' was founded. The owners factored this in from the beginning hyping their games as 'future rarest releases on the PS4' and put pressure on gamers and collectors by referring to ebay scalpers. These ebay prices are NOT an unintended and unfortunate by-product of the demand for these games, they are the direct and desired result of the salesmodel.

85% (!!) of the entire published Limited Run games (not counting the recent ones of the last couple of weeks) are sold on ebay with a profit margin of 40% to 600% over retail price. They are the intended paradise of ebay scalpers.

Just a reality check for those who adamanty defend the LR- salesmodel like they would work as PR-spokespersons for this company. For a long time these facts, the ebay prices, were denied and belittled, so were the small sales-windows, and the nonsense-level of the justifications of this salesmodel are up the roof.

Other small publishers which are in the same growing niche market, with the same organizational structures, with very similar products and the same target audience as Limited Run can make a profit with normal salesmethods benefitting gamers and collectors! Why can't Limited Run? Why can't these two self-proclaimed gamers and collectors sell their games like other small publishers and give up selling games in a way which is disadvantegous for gamers and collectors in every aspect? Might greed associated with mimimizing risk for the company at the cost of gamers be the answer?

I admit, however, that LR was right and honest in this regard: "The standard version of the game sold out several weeks ago and is already fetching several times the original retail price on secondary markets. (...) - head over to our site now and grab a copy!"

...or they might regret this slip in their email in the meantime. (?)

Now the adamant defenders of this terrible salesmodel claim that they were always aware of how and why Limited Run sells their games this way. Why then did they deny and belittle the consequences of this salesmodel for a long time and ignored the fact that other smaller publishers which sell indie-games on physical discs do very well?

I have faith that emulation and digital distribution is only going to get better. PSN has existed for over a decade now, and people who bought, say, digital PSP games back when that handheld was alive still have them tied to their accounts and can download them for play on Vita now. So while games occasionally get pulled from the marketplace (and sometime added back later), I think most are just going to pass from generation to generation, so people can keep playing their digital games on their older platforms or put them on newer platforms too. So even though I have a strong preference for physical releases, that preference isn't motivated by fear of digital games being lost.

There are always going to be physical releases that are rare and/or in high demand in every generation that will then get very expensive. No way to prevent that, not unless only AAA games get physical print runs, in massive quantities. There are definitely some older games that I accept I'll probably never own because I refuse to pay the going rate. I'll settle for an official digital release if available (that's how I bought Tron Bonne and Dynastic Hero in English, and I'll probably get Earthbound that way eventually too), and if there is no way to officially buy a game digitally and show my support to the developer/publisher, then I have no qualms about turning to emulation. It's not like a publisher is going to make any money if I go on eBay right now and buy some expensive retro game.

I have faith that emulation and digital distribution is only going to get better. PSN has existed for over a decade now, and people who bought, say, digital PSP games back when that handheld was alive still have them tied to their accounts and can download them for play on Vita now. So while games occasionally get pulled from the marketplace (and sometime added back later), I think most are just going to pass from generation to generation, so people can keep playing their digital games on their older platforms or put them on newer platforms too. So even though I have a strong preference for physical releases, that preference isn't motivated by fear of digital games being lost.

I love that you can play PSP games on the Vita, however, you can't play PS3 games on anything other than a PS3. If Sony would release an emulator on the PS3 to play PSN PS3 games, that would be excellent. Also, you can backup Vita and PS4 PSN games on a PC or HDD, but you can't do that on the PS3. So unless someone finds a way to extract the executable AND play it on a PC or another console, PS3 PSN games will just die with the PS3. And that would suck real bad.

I didn't even bother trying to get Night Trap. I mean sure, I could buy the game then resell it for $75 in profit for an hours worth of workk, but that's not me, I won't buy a game just to resell it. That one copy either went to a reseller or someone who would have missed it otherwise.

What a terrible, completely unnecessary salesmodel! Everyone with a minimum of common sense saw this coming when 'Limited Run Games' was founded. The owners factored this in from the beginning hyping their games as 'future rarest releases on the PS4' and put pressure on gamers and collectors by referring to ebay scalpers. These ebay prices are NOT an unintended and unfortunate by-product of the demand for these games, they are the direct and desired result of the salesmodel.

85% (!!) of the entire published Limited Run games (not counting the recent ones of the last couple of weeks) are sold on ebay with a profit margin of 40% to 600% over retail price. They are the intended paradise of ebay scalpers.

Just a reality check for those who adamanty defend the LR- salesmodel like they would work as PR-spokespersons for this company. For a long time these facts, the ebay prices, were denied and belittled, so were the small sales-windows, and the nonsense-level of the justifications of this salesmodel are up the roof.

Other small publishers which are in the same growing niche market, with the same organizational structures, with very similar products and the same target audience as Limited Run can make a profit with normal salesmethods benefitting gamers and collectors! Why can't Limited Run? Why can't these two self-proclaimed gamers and collectors sell their games like other small publishers and give up selling games in a way which is disadvantegous for gamers and collectors in every aspect? Might greed associated with mimimizing risk for the company at the cost of gamers be the answer?

I admit, however, that LR was right and honest in this regard: "The standard version of the game sold out several weeks ago and is already fetching several times the original retail price on secondary markets. (...) - head over to our site now and grab a copy!"

...or they might regret this slip in their email in the meantime. (?)

Now the adamant defenders of this terrible salesmodel claim that they were always aware of how and why Limited Run sells their games this way. Why then did they deny and belittle the consequences of this salesmodel for a long time and ignored the fact that other smaller publishers which sell indie-games on physical discs do very well?

Have you ever personally tried to get a business loan with no collateral? Do you know how much capital it takes to start a retail publishing operation? I'm guessing you've never successfully done much of anything in your life. Well, except maybe to keep repeating the same worthless arguments about why someone else should run their business the way you think they should. Please provide us with proof that any of the indie games publishers selling PS4 games are "doing very well". While you're at it, please explain why Soedesco, THQ Nordic and the others (with the notable exception of Badlands Games) aren't supporting the Vita. The reality is that you don't have answers because the truth is that you're not presenting facts, you're just spinning the same pile of hyperbolic garbage because you have some bizarre personal obsession with LRG. Give it a rest, the overwhelming majority of people in this thread buy LRG games and like what they're doing. All you're doing now is trolling.

So, it's a collectible, and 20 years later when developer-supported means of obtaining the games have probably dropped off, we're back to where we are now. Pay the 3+ figure collector price or else SORRY SOME OF US AREN'T WELL-OFF ENOUGH TO DO THAT hope piracy is an option.
(I want my games legit as much as possible but hell if I was going to pay a flipper $200, loose, for Surprise at Dinosaur Peak in roughly 2009, let alone $1000 or whatever now.
Say the game was originally $49.99 in 1994, even in 2009 that was nearly 3x the original MSRP (inflation adjusted to about $72). I don't think anyone but someone primarily concerned on the resale value would say that's a fair price to play the thing.)

So, it's not about LRG, it's about the fact that games in general are becoming more popular with collectors and more expensive on the secondary market as a result? That's just the reality when people of a certain age have a lot of disposable income.

I have mixed feelings on the LRG "debacles." I was able to get Night Trap last night, but I missed WonderBoy all three times last week. WonderBoy had a little more value to me personally but I ended up ordering the PlayAsia version, which I've grown to like that cover anyway.

I think LRG is closer to financial instability than people realize and I can see why, months ago, it was tough to foresee how the demand for these games would go. WonderBoy had the PA version, for example, and NT hype seems fairly recent in my eyes. In some ways I think they kind of trapped themselves with the philosophy that they will never reprint titles, but it would have also been tough to predict how big they would get and with which games. Most importantly, I think they should do two things: switch from Shopify and/or demand that games be held in carts, and also take care of bots in some manner. The amount of issues that happen with PayPal and Amazon Pay at checkout, out of our control, is frustrating. I believe that bots, not really diligent people who want the game, are beating people out due to these errors.

Yet also it is worth noting that these are just games and most (not all) even have an alternative physical edition. WB standard is already going lower than I expected on eBay and has the PA version. Night Trap has the PC version that still currently has the 45% inventory, and that gets you to the Steam version. I'm under the impression that it has almost no requirements other than free hard drive space so basically every current laptop can play it. Shantae has the 3DS version. I understand that as collectors we can get OCD about particular variants, but you also need to let it go sometimes.

So, it's not about LRG, it's about the fact that games in general are becoming more popular with collectors and more expensive on the secondary market as a result? That's just the reality when people of a certain age have a lot of disposable income.

This.

This is what's happening lately. Also, LRG is getting a plethora of coverage that it used to not have, which makes thinks incredibly harder on the rest of us. For example, just recently I saw CheapAssGamer mention them on Facebook, which never used to happen (or at least I never saw it). Promotions like these increase demand and thus it's harder to get the games.

My solution would be to increase production of certain games. For instance, if Wonderboy and Night Trap had at least 2,000 more units made for the regular or Collector's Edition, perhaps things wouldn't be so negative for the company. The problem is to determine WHICH games need higher print runs, so they can sell out quick but at least give more time for the customer to get them. And not end up being a Law Breakers. Make the games last...perhaps...15 minutes? That would be great for the most of us and for it's existing fanbase.

Does anyone have a list of release dates and titles to be available for LRG?

My opening post should be pretty complete as far as upcoming games and their release dates go. If something's not there, it probably hasn't been announced yet.

Supposedly LRG is going to do something "creative" with Ys Origin to better ensure that everyone who wants a copy can get one. What exactly that entails I don't know. I just wish that, now that "FMV Friday" is out of the way, they'll finally announce the mystery Japanese RPG that's supposed to sell alongside Ys. I don't plan on buying Lili or N++ either, so that's what I'm waiting on.

My opening post should be pretty complete as far as upcoming games and their release dates go. If something's not there, it probably hasn't been announced yet.

Supposedly LRG is going to do something "creative" with Ys Origin to better ensure that everyone who wants a copy can get one. What exactly that entails I don't know. I just wish that, now that "FMV Friday" is out of the way, they'll finally announce the mystery Japanese RPG that's supposed to sell alongside Ys. I don't plan on buying Lili or N++ either, so that's what I'm waiting on.

They're saying the Japanese RPG may be delayed because of changes in the Sony submission process. It may also impact their release schedule after September and cause the number of releases for the rest of the year to slow way down.

Ah, that's too bad. About the mystery RPG being delayed, that is (I wish they could still announce what it is in the meantime). I'm all for the release schedule slowing down, though. I feel like they've been stringing people along with comments like "Spring is going to be busy! Bear with us!", then "Summer is going to be busy! Bear with us!" and "Fall is going to be busy! Bear with us!" They keep making it seem as if the relief of a more relaxed release schedule is just around the corner but then that relief gets pushed further and further back. I dunno how anyone buys every last release these days, let alone the people who buy every platform variant, or even the max quantities of them all. That's just too much money spent on LRG alone each month for me, so I'm happy to now stick with the Vita releases, which are coming out at a saner rate than the PS4 releases, and the once in a blue moon PS4 release that I really want.

An article about Night Trap's release mis-attributed a foul quote to LRG. LRG is sending out tweets denouncing it lol.

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Game Sack, another gaming channel which I watch at times, wrote the following comment to the above video:

My take: Limited Run promotes the concept of digital-only games more than physical copies without even realizing it. It's much easier to get a digital game. What good are physical copies if buying them is so stressful? Why should people have to go into panic mode to buy a friggin' video game? Of course this isn't all Limited Run's fault. Much of the blame lies on the people who actually do buy them. One person in this comment section somewhere said that if they did pre-orders "no one would buy them except people who actually open and play them, most people just like putting them on their shelves and posting pics of the boxes on social media". This is what it has become. It's no longer about gaming. Now it's only about collecting. The games themselves don't actually matter. It's just about the having. And those people won't buy a game if they feel like everyone else can have it. That's why pre-orders fail with LimitedRun games but they DON'T fail with other publishers. The collector mentality gets worse and worse. Also, from what I heard they did increase production of Night Trap. I haven't been to their site so I don't know what the numbers are but I know for a fact that they were definitely thinking about producing more than the normal allotment at some point. However Limited Run has told me personally that they do like the fervor and sense of urgency surrounding their releases. Bottom line: It's a shitty market, not much anyone can really do about it and the only thing that guarantees you a game any more is buying it digitally. Limited Run is for collectors only. Not gamers. This sucks, but it's the world we live in now.﻿

I agree with all of the above except that this is not only partially LR's fault but ebay scalping and rarity hype are fully LR's fault because they are intended from the beginning as I explained in my posts. They are the intended aspects of their salesmodel, ebay scalping was from the beginning factored in.

Well taken is the point by Game Sack that the salesmethod of LR is counterproductive for physical games and promotes in the end digital games. But the two LR-guys won't care about that, I'm sure, as long as they are busy filling their bank accounts. Always remember: they are facing bankruptcy and endanger their livelihood if not for this very very special salesmodel. Other small publishers which do the same as LR but sell their games in a regular way are expanding, hiring and publishing more games than ever for the same niche market. Maybe the two LR-guys should ask the two owners of Soedesco how to run properly a profitable company without relying on a slick salesmethod disadvantegous for gamers and collectors?

Also remember the quote by GameSack: "However Limited Run has told me personally that they do like the fervor and sense of urgency surrounding their releases." Yep, they certainly do, I wonder why. Hmm...beats me, I can't think about one reason.

Has anyone considered that Limited Run is inadvertantly helping a lot of these other small publishers by raising the profile of smaller indie releases?

For about two decades now, smaller publishers have tried porting niche games, often of higher quality than what many of these new publishers do, and failed miserably. Companies like A1 and XS tried bringing over PS1 budget and niche titles and couldn't make it work. Whether a lack of advertising budget, poor understanding of localization, or being too late in a console's lifespan, publishers have brought out high-end arcade ports, butchered budget games, and other niche games like Top Shop, Sol Divide, Starfighter Sanvein, Gekioh/Shienryu, WarTech, etc. to general failure.

Limited Run, support them or not, have people paying closer attention to indie releases. Were people lined up to preorder games like Cleopatra's Fortune or Qix Neo when they were getting quiet US releases? Nah. But LR has people looking closer at digital services and earmarking the physical stuff they want even better than other publishers have been able to do with bigger budget Japanese releases in their day. People, being made to be more conscious of small print runs and future releases, are far more in tune with what's happening, and that benefits companies like Soedesco and FanGamer, who not only gain visibility by being in the same business, but get to play the good guy role.

What I'm getting at is that what Limited Run has done has been important for raising awareness and viability for smaller physical releases in an age where it looks like Sony and Microsoft are dying to go all digital. You don't have to like them or support them to appreciate that we are all more aware of physical releases of smaller games in part due to their presence in the marketplace.

Plus, Game Sack's reviews are half-assed, and it's clear that they play the bare minimum of most games to get their two minute blurb and footage together in most cases. Great production values, likable guys, but you only have to watch the show or listen to when they've hosted panels to see that they know surprisingly little , often sourcing Wikipedia for content. I like Happy Console Gamer better, although I know they're buddies, as he typically just talks about games through the lens of his own experience instead of as an authority... but that's all off topic. Then again, so is most of this thread, which was intended to be informative instead of a constant editorial piece, but I suppose I've contributed to the shitstorm as well.

Doug did a great panel at MO Game Con this past weekend. The audio is pretty poor due to technical issues with the camera and sound gear, but a couple of interesting things came out. They are looking at doing a hybrid model release for Ys where they will still have the CE and standard edition on a Friday release day and then a 24 hour preorder window for an unlimited version with different cover art. They are also likely to have to submit to ESRB going forward as there are several small game shops that sell their games and that is the potential delay for games in the coming months as ESRB can require a rating change if there is DLC or other content on the disc that doesn't comply with the earlier digital rating of the game.

Has anyone considered that Limited Run is inadvertantly helping a lot of these other small publishers by raising the profile of smaller indie releases?

For about two decades now, smaller publishers have tried porting niche games, often of higher quality than what many of these new publishers do, and failed miserably. Companies like A1 and XS tried bringing over PS1 budget and niche titles and couldn't make it work. Whether a lack of advertising budget, poor understanding of localization, or being too late in a console's lifespan, publishers have brought out high-end arcade ports, butchered budget games, and other niche games like Top Shop, Sol Divide, Starfighter Sanvein, Gekioh/Shienryu, WarTech, etc. to general failure.

Limited Run, support them or not, have people paying closer attention to indie releases. Were people lined up to preorder games like Cleopatra's Fortune or Qix Neo when they were getting quiet US releases? Nah. But LR has people looking closer at digital services and earmarking the physical stuff they want even better than other publishers have been able to do with bigger budget Japanese releases in their day. People, being made to be more conscious of small print runs and future releases, are far more in tune with what's happening, and that benefits companies like Soedesco and FanGamer, who not only gain visibility by being in the same business, but get to play the good guy role.

What I'm getting at is that what Limited Run has done has been important for raising awareness and viability for smaller physical releases in an age where it looks like Sony and Microsoft are dying to go all digital. You don't have to like them or support them to appreciate that we are all more aware of physical releases of smaller games in part due to their presence in the marketplace.

Plus, Game Sack's reviews are half-assed, and it's clear that they play the bare minimum of most games to get their two minute blurb and footage together in most cases. Great production values, likable guys, but you only have to watch the show or listen to when they've hosted panels to see that they know surprisingly little , often sourcing Wikipedia for content. I like Happy Console Gamer better, although I know they're buddies, as he typically just talks about games through the lens of his own experience instead of as an authority... but that's all off topic. Then again, so is most of this thread, which was intended to be informative instead of a constant editorial piece, but I suppose I've contributed to the shitstorm as well.

I agree that LRG has greatly boosted the market for physical releases of niche titles. A flood of competitors have entered the market which is good for consumers and frankly, many of us who buy LRG games also buy other niche titles by the other publishers on a regular basis. I also agree with your point that many companies have tried the retail niche approach and failed. I think we are nearing that point again with companies like Rising Star having not released a game in a very long time and THQ Nordic and 505 barely squeezing out a game every 4-5 months and delaying games that have been on the schedule for many more months. Even Soedesco seems to have been hit with delays for whatever reason as their games which I preordered on Amazon keep getting pushed back a month at a time. Personally I don't think the retail model is viable for niche titles as there just isn't enough margin there or volume to make it worthwhile, but for now I'm happy to have more options and a great library of physical niche games from all of the publishers.

Plus, Game Sack's reviews are half-assed, and it's clear that they play the bare minimum of most games to get their two minute blurb and footage together in most cases. Great production values, likable guys, but you only have to watch the show or listen to when they've hosted panels to see that they know surprisingly little , often sourcing Wikipedia for content. I like Happy Console Gamer better, although I know they're buddies, as he typically just talks about games through the lens of his own experience instead of as an authority... but that's all off topic. Then again, so is most of this thread, which was intended to be informative instead of a constant editorial piece, but I suppose I've contributed to the shitstorm as well.

I hear you on Game Sack. They're like a running joke among my family and friends. Though not remotely clever (which I suppose is appropriate given the target), I call them "Game Suck". They know jack all about anything they're talking about, and they have the vocabulary of 3rd graders, which is all the more astounding when they clearly prepare scripts in advance and have the time to come up with something at least remotely interesting to say. But instead it's all "this is really nice", "this is cool", "I liked this", "this is great". Just an utter lack of substance, and the repetitiveness literally makes my head hurt after a while. My favorite is the rare occasions where they actually acknowledge a game's music to say it's good but then proceed to not play a second of it. If they could actually, you know, describe the music genre or name the composer or something, then we'd have something to work with, but you can't get more worthless than to simply say the music is good and then not let us hear even a snippet. I'm convinced the only reason they have so many viewers is because people like to turn their brains off and just watch video footage from a bunch of different games. Their whining about LRG has never been well-argued either. They're not much better than the loser who recently sent LRG a support ticket threatening to make a negative video about them if they didn't send him a free copy of Night Trap. The whole "us" versus "them" mentality in gaming is just petty and childish, whether it's "casual" versus "hardcore", or "gamer" versus "collector", or whatever else. Who cares if someone buys a game to play it, collect it, or even to keep it sealed? Regardless of what the person does with their own copy, it doesn't make it any easier or harder for anyone else to buy a copy. That copy has been sold, period. I've bought, opened, and played every single Vita release from LRG, but I guess that doesn't align with whatever dumb narrative Game Sack is pushing.

Anyway, I'm digressing too now. But I do want to say that I appreciate your posts. You've made a lot of good points, from an unbiased perspective. You don't view LRG as some sort of cartoonishly evil corporation destroying gaming, and since you're not buying from them, nobody can assume that you're some sort of blind LRG fanboy either.

They are looking at doing a hybrid model release for Ys where they will still have the CE and standard edition on a Friday release day and then a 24 hour preorder window for an unlimited version with different cover art.

Ugh, they need to chill with the cover variants. This sounds good for people who just want a copy period, but it'll do nothing to alleviate the madness to get the CE and standard edition. A cover variant just means a lot of people will try to buy during both sales models, to get one of every variant. Cover variants and CEs are fun as options now and then, but with the frequency of them, it just feels like squeezing collectors for extra money, to get them to double or even triple dip on the same game. I mean, does something like Lili really warrant a CE? Especially when said CE barely includes anything extra over the standard version yet still costs $15 more.