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"It's easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled!" -- Mark Twain
"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize." -- Voltaire
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"It's easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled!" -- Mark Twain
"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize." -- Voltaire
Stopthecrime.net

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No worries, it says that for all of us. Use a third party host like Tinypic or whatever....not photobucket.
Then pics work....easy peasy.

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All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible.

"We, here in America, hold in our hands the hopes of the world, the fate of the coming years; and shame and disgrace will be ours if in our eyes the light of high resolve is dimmed, if we trail in the dust the golden hopes of men."

Never wanted an AR pistol or a piston AR. Was given a complete KAC pistol buffer setup with Slash Heavy Buffer and pistol brace by guy tired of fighting his pistol and fixing broken parts plus gas in face. Since have complete rear end now looking for a deal on pistol length piston kit and plan to build my first pistol and piston gun at same time. Figure the two should compliment each other allowing pistol to run clean, break less parts and accuracy of a pistol is not going to be affected enough to matter. Seems like the way to build one. Also trying to find one of the old LWRC 8.5" 6.8 spc II barrels. 8.5" 6.8 piston drive pistol build with adapter for quick change can and should fit in my briefcase with can removed. Talk about an ugly room clearing beast but snatch out a 6.8 pistol, snap on can and though would still be loud, would be a mean machine. Now trolling online used parts so can see how frustrating or fun project becomes.

__________________
A time will come when people will not listen to accurate teachings. Instead, they will follow their own desires and surround themselves with teachers who tell them what they want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3 G.W.T.
"If it is worth doing once...it's worth doing it a few more times to get it right." Stimpsonjcat

Since have complete rear end now looking for a deal on pistol length piston kit and plan to build my first pistol and piston gun at same time.Also trying to find one of the old LWRC 8.5" 6.8 spc II barrels. 8.5" 6.8 piston drive pistol build with adapter for quick change can and should fit in my briefcase with can removed. Talk about an ugly room clearing beast but snatch out a 6.8 pistol, snap on can and though would still be loud, would be a mean machine. Now trolling online used parts so can see how frustrating or fun project becomes.

Not sure what brand piston system you're looking for but if you find a deal on an Adams the only diff is the length of the drive rod, and they're not terribly expensive. I would, however, be sure to get one of the units with the adjustable gas, either the original or (I prefer) the XLP. This is what I built my 10.5" 300BO pistol with as it has 5 gas positions if memory serves, so when the can goes on you can turn the gas down at the flip of a lever.Speaking of cans, I'm curious why the choice of the 6.8 instead of the BO? The BO has a complete powder burn at around 9" of barrel length, where the 6.8 you need about 16" to get there. If you can get all the powder burnt it's much nicer to your can, and makes the can more effective as well as far as hearing protection goes.

I haven't looked but I can't see energy being too different from a barrel that short, and I'd guess with the more efficient burn the BO would win there out to 150yds or more when BC starts to matter. I've taken pigs with mine out over 100yds with 130gr Hog Hammers using the Barnes TSX bullets. Nasty wounds let me tell ya, and that's what the magazines stay loaded with for SHTF purposes. I figure if it does that to mean little 4-legged vermin, it would do the same to the 2-legged variety. 4 30-round mags can make for a lot of "WRONG (fill in blank here) MOTHER @#@#$@!!!!" as well.I do love the compactness of the pistol for the amount of firepower it delivers. Mine fits in a soft tennis-racquet case as well as the extra mags. I've also taken a modern violin case and added new foam for a nice clean custom fit if I'm travelling; just looks like a piece of business luggage of some sort. Looks like this:http://i2.wp.com/stringsmagazine.str...Style-Case.jpg

As a lefty I need ambi controls, but I think they are smart to have no matter, especially if you carry something that may be put to live-saving use at some point. Being able to run controls from either hand can be a life saver, especially if your dominant gets injured or a position only allows fire from the non-dom side. I went with the San-Tan tactical receiver as it's fully ambi from the factory, with all the ambi stuff in place already. Damned nice work too. They sell a blem for far less than the regular price, and I've yet to find the blem on mine.

Anyway just sharing my thoughts about how I got to where I am with mine and was curious about yours.

Not sure what brand piston system you're looking for but if you find a deal on an Adams the only diff is the length of the drive rod, and they're not terribly expensive. I would, however, be sure to get one of the units with the adjustable gas, either the original or (I prefer) the XLP. This is what I built my 10.5" 300BO pistol with as it has 5 gas positions if memory serves, so when the can goes on you can turn the gas down at the flip of a lever.Speaking of cans, I'm curious why the choice of the 6.8 instead of the BO? The BO has a complete powder burn at around 9" of barrel length, where the 6.8 you need about 16" to get there. If you can get all the powder burnt it's much nicer to your can, and makes the can more effective as well as far as hearing protection goes. (Trim)
Anyway just sharing my thoughts about how I got to where I am with mine and was curious about yours.

Have built two 300 BO's in past. At one time did a cartidges count and in AR 15 had rifles in 20 Tactical, 204 Ruger, 223/5.56/5.56 Wylde, 5.7×28, 6.8 spc, 6.8 spc II, 300 BO and 7.62×40 Wilson. Was also finding myself at local WMA range a lot till had to stop going on weekends because of the 300 BO. 300 became so popular and people tend to go to range in small groups of family or friends. It became almost a regular thing on busy weekend that a group would have three or four guys with AR's sharing a bench and at some point some person not paying attention would slap a 300 BO mag in a 5.56 rifle and KaBoom. Range officers told me at that range a 300 BO magazine found its way into a 5.56 rifle one to three times a week. I have enough problems being retarded so tore down my 300 BO rifles and let 7.62×40 Wilson which will not go into battery if try to use in a 5.56 rifle fill that niche.

At same time was having a lively discussion with GP about the difference between a collector/experimenter and standardization. Some people think pick a large battle rifle in 7.62×51 and a small rifle either AK or AR but whichever use one standard cartridge. I saw some merit to the argument but still enjoy tinkering and some variety. Tore down all my 20 amd 30 caliber AR's. Cut it down to just 5.56 family and 6.8 spc II till 22 Nosler was released which have barrel number 4 ready to build. Wife still has her pair of 5.7×28's but I seldom fool with them. With 5.56, 6.8 and 22 Nosler even if grab wrong magazine for rifle will not go into battery and fire or if somehow got a 5.56 round to go off in Nosler chamber would not KaBoom. Therefore 300 BO is no longer an option in my house as wife plays with rifles as wel, and do my best to keep everything properly sorted, don't want an issue see happen regularly happen to me.

Currently I have four 14.7 6.8's and velocity is fine. Done a lot of testing and research and other than normal fall off that most cartridges see for each inch of loss of barrel length, the 6.8 spc II does not see significant velocity loss till drop below 11.5". Have a suppressor coming for a 12.5" 6.8 SBR and this cartridge performs well at 12.5". LWRC who probably has done more research on 6.8 of any manufacturer admits that 8.5" barrels are not efficient. Honestly I don't care. This is going to be a toy and may occasionally go in my briefcase that currently has a SIG 9mm with an Osprey can. An 8.5" 6.8 is going to way out perform the 9mm SIG. Odds are I will tailor a load using fast burning powder for the pistol project. Will have to test with 90 to 200 grain bullets to see which suits it best.

Even after cutting five cartridges then adding one back, four total cartidges to manage in one rifle is more than enough. Have shot 6.8 and 300 side by side. Except for short barrel suppressed, the 6.8 outperforms 300 in all other aspects that matter to me. 85 grain Barnes Copper Solids and 90 grain Gold Dots hit hard. 110 and 120 grain tipped bullets will take elk size game with authority. Even with a 14.7" carbine. With 20" barrel and 130 grain bullets would even carry in big bear country for protection. It would be simple to go with 300 BO for this project but to add just the one into my fleet adds potential for disaster.

Only reason have AR 10's is ability to easily build rifles in longer cartridges. Have them in 6XC and 338 Federal but not 308/7.62×51. Next pair will most likely be 7mm-08. Had planned on building a pair of 22-250 AR 10's instead but 22 Nosler in the AR 15 eliminated that need. Have so many 7.62×51 battle rifles in FAL's, M1a's, H&K's, CETME's and such don't need 308 AR 10 but am really tempted now to build one and drop a binary trigger and large Beta mag in it for trimming the brush. But for now, will let others play with 300 BO and there is a good chance after build the 6.8 pistol will play with it then part it out.

__________________
A time will come when people will not listen to accurate teachings. Instead, they will follow their own desires and surround themselves with teachers who tell them what they want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3 G.W.T.
"If it is worth doing once...it's worth doing it a few more times to get it right." Stimpsonjcat

Have built two 300 BO's in past. At one time did a cartidges count and in AR 15 had rifles in 20 Tactical, 204 Ruger, 223/5.56/5.56 Wylde, 5.7×28, 6.8 spc, 6.8 spc II, 300 BO and 7.62×40 Wilson. Was also finding myself at local WMA range a lot till had to stop going on weekends because of the 300 BO. 300 became so popular and people tend to go to range in small groups of family or friends. It became almost a regular thing on busy weekend that a group would have three or four guys with AR's sharing a bench and at some point some person not paying attention would slap a 300 BO mag in a 5.56 rifle and KaBoom. Range officers told me at that range a 300 BO magazine found its way into a 5.56 rifle one to three times a week. I have enough problems being retarded so tore down my 300 BO rifles and let 7.62×40 Wilson which will not go into battery if try to use in a 5.56 rifle fill that niche.

At same time was having a lively discussion with GP about the difference between a collector/experimenter and standardization. Some people think pick a large battle rifle in 7.62×51 and a small rifle either AK or AR but whichever use one standard cartridge. I saw some merit to the argument but still enjoy tinkering and some variety. Tore down all my 20 amd 30 caliber AR's. Cut it down to just 5.56 family and 6.8 spc II till 22 Nosler was released which have barrel number 4 ready to build. Wife still has her pair of 5.7×28's but I seldom fool with them. With 5.56, 6.8 and 22 Nosler even if grab wrong magazine for rifle will not go into battery and fire or if somehow got a 5.56 round to go off in Nosler chamber would not KaBoom. Therefore 300 BO is no longer an option in my house as wife plays with rifles as wel, and do my best to keep everything properly sorted, don't want an issue see happen regularly happen to me.

Currently I have four 14.7 6.8's and velocity is fine. Done a lot of testing and research and other than normal fall off that most cartridges see for each inch of loss of barrel length, the 6.8 spc II does not see significant velocity loss till drop below 11.5". Have a suppressor coming for a 12.5" 6.8 SBR and this cartridge performs well at 12.5". LWRC who probably has done more research on 6.8 of any manufacturer admits that 8.5" barrels are not efficient. Honestly I don't care. This is going to be a toy and may occasionally go in my briefcase that currently has a SIG 9mm with an Osprey can. An 8.5" 6.8 is going to way out perform the 9mm SIG. Odds are I will tailor a load using fast burning powder for the pistol project. Will have to test with 90 to 200 grain bullets to see which suits it best.

Even after cutting five cartridges then adding one back, four total cartidges to manage in one rifle is more than enough. Have shot 6.8 and 300 side by side. Except for short barrel suppressed, the 6.8 outperforms 300 in all other aspects that matter to me. 85 grain Barnes Copper Solids and 90 grain Gold Dots hit hard. 110 and 120 grain tipped bullets will take elk size game with authority. Even with a 14.7" carbine. With 20" barrel and 130 grain bullets would even carry in big bear country for protection. It would be simple to go with 300 BO for this project but to add just the one into my fleet adds potential for disaster.

Only reason have AR 10's is ability to easily build rifles in longer cartridges. Have them in 6XC and 338 Federal but not 308/7.62×51. Next pair will most likely be 7mm-08. Had planned on building a pair of 22-250 AR 10's instead but 22 Nosler in the AR 15 eliminated that need. Have so many 7.62×51 battle rifles in FAL's, M1a's, H&K's, CETME's and such don't need 308 AR 10 but am really tempted now to build one and drop a binary trigger and large Beta mag in it for trimming the brush. But for now, will let others play with 300 BO and there is a good chance after build the 6.8 pistol will play with it then part it out.

I would call that a complete answer!

I get the reasoning. If there is a chance at a kaboom then that's a good way to prevent it. I keep a batch of black mags for 5.56, have FDE for my BO stuff. I rarely shoot with groups so this manages separation for me. In the rare instances I do provide guns and ammo to a group I only go 5.56; I'm a cheap bastard, what can I say?

I have plans to build a 6.8 upper for one of my ARs. I bought a receiver and 2 fitted uppers for it, and have not built out the second matched upper. The 5.56 upper is my version of a Mk12, and figure I'll do the same in 6.8. I like things to handle similarly, and an 18" SPC should make for a nice whitetail and pig dispatcher.

I admit I haven't done a terrible lot of research on the SPCII. What do you consider the effective range with factory ammo from the 18" barrel?

Tripped across article about guy in Delta Force last night. Pics above reminded me. Carries either a SIG 416 in 12 or 14 inch most missions. With his 14" SIG 416 in 5.56 shoots 100% at 600 yards and 97% at 1,000 yards on man size silhouette. I officially resign my operator badge.

__________________
A time will come when people will not listen to accurate teachings. Instead, they will follow their own desires and surround themselves with teachers who tell them what they want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3 G.W.T.
"If it is worth doing once...it's worth doing it a few more times to get it right." Stimpsonjcat

Tripped across article about guy in Delta Force last night. Pics above reminded me. Carries either a SIG 416 in 12 or 14 inch most missions. With his 14" SIG 416 in 5.56 shoots 100% at 600 yards and 97% at 1,000 yards on man size silhouette. I officially resign my operator badge.

Reporter had exclusive 24/7 access for 72 hours plus additional meetings and discussion. Operator was not named or pictured but said he was a shooter from a young age, competed as a civilian till joined Army out of college, made Special Forces then Delta. Said he had to hit the range every day during on base training but took about half the time to complete necessary tasks required before end of range session. This was a well written article about this guy's life from rolling out of bed when alarm beeped and knocking out 100 pushups and 100 situps so body was acclimated to going from dead sleep to full physical exertion immediately. Was also able to stop while in middle of hard run with full gear, pause, breath and break a 600 yard shot then go back to humping his ruck at a dead run. While rest were spending their extra range time he was using for language class. Supposidly fluent as if first language in three languages in addition to English and functional in four others. Said he was working on becoming fluent in middle eastern languages and functional in many of the more necessary dialects for his work.

Will have to find which computer read and bookmarked as mentioned his unit was in Pakistan under JSOC command in case the SEAL's needed rescue. My guess is to be on the team tasked with rescuing SEAL Team 6 if mission went to total crap would imply your part of a top notch group. What I learned is Delta is not officially attached to Special Forces or even the Army. When join Delta become part of a group that officially does not exist, does not have a budget and can be tasked to run missions on U.S. soil against U.S. civilians. Apparently that's one of their specialties. Will find the link and post it up as one of the more interesting reads have had in some time.

__________________
A time will come when people will not listen to accurate teachings. Instead, they will follow their own desires and surround themselves with teachers who tell them what they want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3 G.W.T.
"If it is worth doing once...it's worth doing it a few more times to get it right." Stimpsonjcat

Guys like to argue either side of anything. When it cones to the piston arguement, my take is this. The piston was here first. Even ole Gene initially chose it prior to the whiz kid bean counters getting involved. The benifits are real. The draw backs are unproven with the exception of a very small weight increase.
I have used the D.I. system since 1989 in military and later in L.E. applications. It has worked perfectly fine. Even today i still have A1 and A2 rifles in my armory.
BUT... given the choice, i buy piston guns. As i get older, i get lazier. Piston clean up is alot like bolt gun cleanup. Wipe down the cup and spigot, punch the bore and done.
I have LWRCI, SIG, and Adams pistons in my inventory. Adams is the simplist. Sig is my favorite (and i really cant say why). LWRCI is the most robust.
I have looked at the Ruger piston and really dont like it at all. I have never looked at the POF stuff. Bottom line. I think its tough to get a bad piston gun.
That said, my D.I guns are VERY dear to my heart. My A2 will be with me at Perry next year and my A1 is just a pure joy to shoot. Gene's design is so good that it just plain out works. And well

I will give piston guns their due but if buy a piston rifle it will be designed ground up as a piston and have 5.56 piston rifles. For AR I don't have issues with fouling and a DI rifle is so easy to make super accurate and simple to work on. Simplicity and accuracy are hard to not take advantage of. Look at all the Mk 12's, in Mod 0, Mod 1 and Mod C were left as DI rifles. Am sure the Uncle Sugar armorers have all the budget want to for builds so if they felt piston drive was better for long range engagement it would be on those rifles. That said, if trip across a deal in a SIG piston rifle will add it to the collection with pride.

__________________
A time will come when people will not listen to accurate teachings. Instead, they will follow their own desires and surround themselves with teachers who tell them what they want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3 G.W.T.
"If it is worth doing once...it's worth doing it a few more times to get it right." Stimpsonjcat

Very good point KoKo. This only reinforces my initial observation of piston drawbacks being unproven. The guys that believe they MUST take a side (on anything), will say, "pistons are less accurate than d.i.. They say it is due to the mass of the moving parts. But... every now and then one will come up with "the piston effects barrel harmonics". Now while this is ALMOST acceptable, it is still unproven.
In the case of the moving parts arguement, that is proven.
High speed video has shown the projectile to be clear of the crown long (6") before the piston or bcg ever begins to move. Kinda like the bullet being gone long before the slide begins to unlock.
In the case of the harmonics arguement, harmonics play a role in everything. As long as the medium (barrel) remains constant, repeatability is possible. Lets look at boltgun barrels. Completely fixed. Yet harmonic issues still exist. This is why Browning came up with their tuning system. The most common technique used to combat this is in load development. Finding the perfect powder and volume (charge weight) that creates the perfect burn and acceleration curve that allows the projectile to ALWAYS exit the crown at the crest NOT the trough of the harmonic sine wave (barrel whip movement in the physical world). This in known as "shooting the node". Three major things must be matched and controled, 1 pressure curve, 2 projectile weight (which is really projectile length/rifling twist combo), 3 barrel length ( weight and profile).
Now the shooter just chooses the node that serves him. Example, low velocity nodes are great for low wear and tear and just maybe 100 yd target shooting. Where a mid,range node may be a good all around. Yet a high node may be selected because of needed range or terminal ballistic performance in the round and application chosen. High nodes are usualy avoided on high round usage rifles because of their destructive effects of chamber throat errosion (barrel life expectancy).
So by this very general explanation of harmonic effect, you can see why this argument is poor and unproven. Here is why.
Military rifle shooters 95% are shooting factory loads at ranges under 100 yards using general loose shooting position and technique. 4.5 of the last 5% reload only for cost savings to enjoy more of the type of shooting the 95% does. That last .5% load and shoot for accuracy. They will shoot that military iron sighted rifle 600 yards. They can tell you that 3/8 -3 is a 100 yd zero, 3/8-2 is 50 and 3/8+3 is a 25 yard zero in an AR15A2 rifle. These guys will hit you with iron sights at distances 97% of even military trained military rifle shooters have no experience at even using optics!
So to wrap it up... as KoKo said earlier. Either rifle design shoots shoots better than the hoards of guys making these opinions the norm.

Very good point KoKo. This only reinforces my initial observation of piston drawbacks being unproven. The guys that believe they MUST take a side (on anything), will say, "pistons are less accurate than d.i.. They say it is due to the mass of the moving parts. But... every now and then one will come up with "the piston effects barrel harmonics". Now while this is ALMOST acceptable, it is still unproven.
In the case of the moving parts arguement, that is proven.
High speed video has shown the projectile to be clear of the crown long (6") before the piston or bcg ever begins to move. Kinda like the bullet being gone long before the slide begins to unlock.
In the case of the harmonics arguement, harmonics play a role in everything. As long as the medium (barrel) remains constant, repeatability is possible. Lets look at boltgun barrels. Completely fixed. Yet harmonic issues still exist. This is why Browning came up with their tuning system. The most common technique used to combat this is in load development. Finding the perfect powder and volume (charge weight) that creates the perfect burn and acceleration curve that allows the projectile to ALWAYS exit the crown at the crest NOT the trough of the harmonic sine wave (barrel whip movement in the physical world). This in known as "shooting the node". Three major things must be matched and controled, 1 pressure curve, 2 projectile weight (which is really projectile length/rifling twist combo), 3 barrel length ( weight and profile).
Now the shooter just chooses the node that serves him. Example, low velocity nodes are great for low wear and tear and just maybe 100 yd target shooting. Where a mid,range node may be a good all around. Yet a high node may be selected because of needed range or terminal ballistic performance in the round and application chosen. High nodes are usualy avoided on high round usage rifles because of their destructive effects of chamber throat errosion (barrel life expectancy).
So by this very general explanation of harmonic effect, you can see why this argument is poor and unproven. Here is why.
Military rifle shooters 95% are shooting factory loads at ranges under 100 yards using general loose shooting position and technique. 4.5 of the last 5% reload only for cost savings to enjoy more of the type of shooting the 95% does. That last .5% load and shoot for accuracy. They will shoot that military iron sighted rifle 600 yards. They can tell you that 3/8 -3 is a 100 yd zero, 3/8-2 is 50 and 3/8+3 is a 25 yard zero in an AR15A2 rifle. These guys will hit you with iron sights at distances 97% of even military trained military rifle shooters have no experience at even using optics!
So to wrap it up... as KoKo said earlier. Either rifle design shoots shoots better than the hoards of guys making these opinions the norm.

Good info ^^^^^^^
Now I will have to scope my LWRC , and compare it to my M4A1 Colt , just to find out for myself .

LWRCI is an awesone company. Even after being sold, they are still awesome. Their rifles are operator grade.
The D.I. guys love to throw in my face that LWRCI is making D.I. guns. And Sig is also selling many of their M400 rifles. As i said, d i. guns are fine. But if one can affort a piston, why not? The cost of pistons are always the final argument as to why they are not good And then there is the "proprietary parts" arguement.
Just what IS "Proprietary Parts"? I think its awesome we live in a country and time where the government design is THE standard. And EVERYBODY is making it. And god help you if you deviate from it, even if your deviation is an improvement.
You never hear that argument with the Mini14, or Tavor etc. Heck, even my old 870 is proprietary and i dont see it as an issue.
At least i can respect the mil spec torture test arguments. Even though very few of us are ever going to need that level of performance. But....even though 38% of all true sports cars in the world are Corvettes, and only 1% of those will ever see a race track, then why must we have the awesome V8 and race suspension? Short answer, V6 Camaros and 4cyl Mustangs suck. Weapons are no different. We have it because we can.
Yet very true arguements NEVER come up. Things like what happens when you fire a rifle with a gas tube full of water?
Real things like, where are the real culprits of stoppages. Nobody ever takes into account things like the lifespan of very fine but high poundage springs like ejector and extractor springs . Heat cycles make them lose strength and these guys want to blame the mag. Yet will not admit these heat cycles do not exist in the piston rifle. They will concede the cleaning argument passing it off as "i dont mind cleaning". And never connect the fact that the carbon gets there under high heat. Fascinating!

Anyone have any experience with the new Ruger SR 762. I was looking at one the other day while my wife's car was being oil under coated. Yeah, the under coating place has a gunshop attached. You wait in there. I liked the look of it, but have no experience with them. A bit pricey, but not out of line with most 7.62's. Less than a Sig.

My buddy bought the 5.56 version. Having a piston interest i looked at it. I never shot it. But lets face it, hard to jack up an AR.
The rifle looked very gov patterned. The parts were all nothing special. No advancements or upgrades. When i got to the piston, it was overly complecated with was too many parts. It was held together with some weird little sheet metal clip as i recall. Could have neen music wire, but seemed like sheetmetal to my memory.
There was nothing straight forward about disassembly. I stopped right there and got it back together. That thing flew against all that pistons have always been.
I think that it was worth the grand he gave for it i am sure it shoots as good as anything else.
The "its too proprietary " guys will have an arguement here. Piston is several small pieces as opposed to every other design. If you had to service it in under field conditions, there is an excellent chace you will leave there with a single shot rifle.
Bill Ruger hated the AR. He believed nobody should own one. He also thought his designs were better than 1911 and plastics were a fad in hand gun design. I am sure he is rolling ocer in his grave today!!
The AR and 1911 have saved his company. Their polymer pistols are doing very well as well! Do they even make the "P" series pistols anymore?
I never forgot about Ruger and S&W selling us downbthe road so i dont buy their stuff. Sadly Springfield Armory Inc has been added to that list reciently.
If it were me, id save a bit more and get the SIG. That rifle is an advancement right down to the coatings on the parts! Brilliantly stolen design from LWRCI (they later made good on that). Nothing to lose in the field. Awesone rifle!https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FQGTts7xyr8
Dont get me wrong. I am dead in love with my LWRCI REPR. It is truly THE $hit!!!!!! BUT......
Had the 716 been out when i bought the REPR, i would have bought the 716 and the 516 and pocketed the change. My buddies with 716s are doing amazing things with those rifles. 716 is NO REPR. But its tough to part with REPR money with the 716 out there!
These things may not matter to you. That Ruger appears to be quality and i have no doubt it will serve you a lifetime. There is alot of rifle to be oroud of there never the less! But weigh it out carefully and get the absolute best price you can.
Post pics. We love em all!

Thanks for the input. I have no experience with the piston rifles.....but I guess that I'm going to get some. I was sitting at home yesterday when my wife called. She said to meet her in the driveway. She had 2 boxes that she needed help with. I went out and met her as she pulled in. The boxes contained that SLR 762 and a Remington M-700 xcr tactical rifle, in 300 win mag. I might just keep her,,, ,,,,and the guns.

Thats a good woman. She saw that the 716 might be a little puney so she made sure you could get the job done!
Back in the mid 90s we used to sell Daewoo products. They were pretty good. I especially liked their pistols. Once cocked, you could flif the hammer up. Then upon pulling the trigger, the hammer would effortlessly move like a double action to fire. I knew it wouldnt catch on. Foreign pistols rarely do here in the states.
The thing i thought was smart was the rifle used AR mags. Back then the mag was an expensive and difficult part of the design process. Mag development killed many a potentially good weapon design program. And even killed some already produced designs like the Bren 10.
Today we are pretty well standardized on the AR and AK. So much that we even have ARs that take AK mags and vise versa!
The standardization is so strong that even older established designs like the M1A and Mini 14 are struggling to survive.

Pick up an older LWRC M6A1 Upper yesterday ; The one that came with to 2-pc. BCG (I was told) . It came with the shorter push rod ,spring & cap . So it would not run with my M6 one pc. BCG .

So for the range trip , I took the push rod out of my other M6 . It never missed a lick , and seam to be lighter , which is what i like . I guess I'm old school , but i favor the Carbine more than the mid Length .

Thats a good woman. She saw that the 716 might be a little puney so she made sure you could get the job done!(Trim)
The standardization is so strong that even older established designs like the M1A and Mini 14 are struggling to survive.

In my household wife expects me to bring her guns home but either way as l Iong as their supportive. Local guy told his girlfriend he would marry her if she purchased him a SCAR 17. Not only did he get the rifle ASAP but had the upgraded stock, Elcan scope, light, targeting laser for night vision and more. He was hung and had to go buy her a ring but sounds like he might be off to a good start.

Ruger might be struggling but half or more of the industry is. How strong Springfield is will be seen but there are enough old guys like me that will still be adding their rifles to keep propped up another day or two. The Mini-14 will have a place with shooters for a long time and the M1A will have a following long after many modern rifles have been forgotten. Too much military history, too many things can do with it and it is one of few rifles that with a few modifications can go from basic battle rifle for a draftee to 1,000 yard target rifle. My M1a's and Mini-14's will follow me to my grave and on to heirs. No AR is as compact and as elegant as a Ruger Mini in GB Factory Folder trim, especially an AC556F at under 24" closed. In its short barrel form with its steel and wood folding stock it's the shortest of all my "assault" rifles with stock folded and rock solid with it extended.

Know there are more advanced rifles these days but honestly my fleet of M1a's (Basic, Standard, National and Super Match) plus pile of Mini's including a very recent buy of a 6.8 Ranch Rifle if use factory mags with the Mini and quality milspec with an M1a cannot remember a failure to feed, fire or extract in over twenty years. Yes, the LWRC and SIG rifles are fine examples in both piston design and DI. Funny thing is the least likely rifles to leave my ownership are my M1a's and Mini's. AR's and other modern stuff can be traded off and repurchased anytime. Nothing like simplicity and reasonably ban state friendly to keep a design in the game. From what I see getting any of these modern rifles into Cali is near impossible without totally ruining their ergonomics while the M1A and Mini just need a short magazine.

Quote:

If you are*a firearm owner, one or more of California’s 6 new firearm bills signed into law by Gov. Brown will likely affect you. There is a lot of buzz on the internet about what is and is not in the bills so let’s clear away some of the digital clutter. *At the outset, I should advise that I am not a lawyer, so for your consideration and research, a link to the bills have been provided. Along with my take on how it will impact honest, law-abiding CA citizens do your research and make sure you have a firm grasp on what these bills mean.(Trim)
Keep in mind that semi-auto rifles that don’t currently take a bullet button, and are without 3 or more of the State’s definition of offending “features” (conspicuously protruding pistol grip, flash suppressor, collapsible butt stock, etc.) are still legal, including the M1 Carbine, M1A, Ruger Mini 14 and other like rifles. These type rifles won’t be considered “assault weapons” (for now) and will continue to be commercially available.

That right there is likely one of the better things that will help ensure those designs stay strong. If I HAD to move to Cali or another state with super odd laws all would have to do is figure out largest magazine allowed, pack several cases of each and load up a safe with my M1a's and Mini-14's (except GB's). Would miss my Leggos but would not feel undergunned in a fight. The National and Super Matches should keep anyone from wanting to even be within sight at any distance and the Mini's will be fine to sweep up any zombies that don't slip in close and don't want to waste ammo in the battle rifles or in tight spaces. In fact, seeing the odd fins and modifications done to FAL's, AR's and others if lived in Cali all mine would have left the state rather than being raped along with any magazines that might cause issues. A sack of abouf 100 ten round mags loaded and ready for my old rifles and life would rock on. I have to go with Colonel Cooper and his endorsement of both. Currently looking for a second 6.8 Mini to drop in an GB Factory Folder stock as the one I have is too pristine to alter and turn into a truck rifle.

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A time will come when people will not listen to accurate teachings. Instead, they will follow their own desires and surround themselves with teachers who tell them what they want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3 G.W.T.
"If it is worth doing once...it's worth doing it a few more times to get it right." Stimpsonjcat

You would have to actually work to ruffle me. Just don't think that the M1a or Mini or those who make them are going away anytime soon. As more states get more odd it will only make them stronger. Purposely carry a Mini on occasion specifically as not an evil black rifle thus must be no threat. A wood stock Mini seems to not raise any concerns and if massssaged will shoot MOA in the midst of occasional mag dumps. When travel out of state is often truck rifle of choice. I am an equal opportunity gun owner, if it shoots straighter than I am able to and will do it faster than I am able then it's really all the rifle I really need. Only thing with them is finicky about aftermarket mags but my 6.8 has zero issues with 10 or 20 round ProMags which is good since Ruger isn't selling high capacity 6.8 mags. Shame they discontinued it. Soon as get another going to take whichever is least perfect and do it up with all the Mini love can show it. Another thing is Walmart still sells them but not AR's and some people can't find a real gun shop.

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A time will come when people will not listen to accurate teachings. Instead, they will follow their own desires and surround themselves with teachers who tell them what they want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3 G.W.T.
"If it is worth doing once...it's worth doing it a few more times to get it right." Stimpsonjcat