re: Who is the NBA MVP this year? (Posted on 2/10/13 at 1:45 pm to quail man)

quote:does that necessarily make him the most valuable, though? you could make an argument either way.

the clippers without Chris Paul have been absolute trash. CP3 should be right up there, IMO.

here's how i look at it. What player is worth the most to any team. Chris paul might get the clippers more wins than lebron does for the heat but it's not lebron's fault he plays on a good team. Lebron could carry an otherwise average team too. He's done it. Lebron's the best player in the world. Every gm in the league would take lebron over any other player to build their team.

re: Who is the NBA MVP this year? (Posted on 2/10/13 at 1:48 pm to Tim Taylor)

quote:He's the best player in the league, but let's not act like he's doing stuff that hasn't been done before. What Durant is doing is incredible too and he can score efficiently from anywhere on the court, which LeBron can't do.

Anyways, MVP =/= Best player. Let's be honest, if you replaced LeBron with say, Paul Pierce/Rudy Gay/Paul George, the Heat would have what? 1-3 less wins? They'd still be first in their division and just behind New York in the East.

ok I stand by what I said. Lebron is the most valuable player in the league since Shaq in his prime. He's pretty unbelievable.

re: Who is the NBA MVP this year? (Posted on 2/10/13 at 1:49 pm to SlowFlowPro)

quote:actually, it was lebron and then howard

lol no. The Heat still had Bosh and Wade (each in the top 5 at their position) with a cast of decent supporting players. Replace LeBron with the 15 best SF in the league, and they win what? 3-4 less games? It's not an award for Best, it's for Most Valuable.

Howard you may have a point with. But LeBron hasn't belonged in the MVP discussion since he left Cleveland.

quote:1. anti-lebron sentiment from the decision

Has nothing to do with it. The media voted for the awards, not the fans. This isn't the People's Choice Awards.

quote:a desire by the media to give the award to somebody other than lebron.

re: Who is the NBA MVP this year? (Posted on 2/10/13 at 1:50 pm to Tim Taylor)

quote:How? Rose was easily the MOST VALUABLE player in the league.

Actually no. Dwight Howard was easily the most valuable player in the league that year if you're looking at who was most valuable to their team. LeBron was the best player that year, and had the best season. Rose was the best story to write. So he won.

quote:lol no. The Heat still had Bosh and Wade (each in the top 5 at their position) with a cast of decent supporting players. Replace LeBron with the 15 best SF in the league, and they win what? 3-4 less games? It's not an award for Best, it's for Most Valuable.

So players on great teams can't win the MVP? Being on a great team is a requirement to win the MVP. Look at last year's Bulls team without half the season Rose, they still were the #1 seed. The Bulls' improvement as a team from '10 to '11 wasn't solely Rose's improvement as a player. It was the addition of Thibs, Korver, Brewer, CJ Watson and Boozer. Plus improved play by Noah and Deng.

re: Who is the NBA MVP this year? (Posted on 2/10/13 at 1:52 pm to beaverfever)

quote:What player is worth the most to any team.

quote:Chris paul might get the clippers more wins than lebron does for the heat

so how exactly do you define worth? if a player gets you more wins, is he not more valuable to your team?

quote:Lebron could carry an otherwise average team too. He's done it.

as has Chris Paul

quote: Every gm in the league would take lebron over any other player to build their team.

i don't debate that at all. what i'm really arguing for here is two separate awards. the best player in the league and the most valuable player in the league. they should be two separate awards, IMO. or just change the name of MVP.

re: Who is the NBA MVP this year? (Posted on 2/10/13 at 1:53 pm to beaverfever)

quote:here's how i look at it. What player is worth the most to any team. Chris paul might get the clippers more wins than lebron does for the heat but it's not lebron's fault he plays on a good team. Lebron could carry an otherwise average team too. He's done it. Lebron's the best player in the world. Every gm in the league would take lebron over any other player to build their team.

See you're speaking in hypotheticals and fantasy drafts and all. No one doubts that LeBron is the best player right now by a hair over Durant. I'm sure if the LeBron (or Kobe or Durant or Melo) went to the Bobcats or Wizards, they could make then a 40-45 win team. No one doubts that, however it doesn't matter because we are dealing with reality here. LeBron is playing on a team that has a top 5 SG and a top 5 PF and every kind of supporting player they need (well they could use a bigger, stronger center, but no team is perfect).

If Bosh or Wade go down for season and LeBron has to take more of a burden the rest of the way and shows out, then yeah give it to him. However, at this point, he doesn't deserve the award (nor has anyone else really).

re: Who is the NBA MVP this year? (Posted on 2/10/13 at 1:55 pm to Tim Taylor)

quote:He's the best player in the league, but let's not act like he's doing stuff that hasn't been done before. What Durant is doing is incredible too and he can score efficiently from anywhere on the court, which LeBron can't do.

Ok? So Durant is better scorer than Lebron. I am pretty sure everyone agrees with that. But Lebron is a better overall player than Durant there really isn't an argument for the contrary.

re: Who is the NBA MVP this year? (Posted on 2/10/13 at 1:56 pm to quail man)

Yeah I get what you're saying for sure. I guess my point is how you evaluate the award. Is it the most valuable player on a given team. Or the most valuable player in the league regardless of the team they play on. Historically you are actually right. They seem to give the award to the player who is the most valuable for their team.

re: Who is the NBA MVP this year? (Posted on 2/10/13 at 1:59 pm to reb13)

quote:Ok? So Durant is better scorer than Lebron. I am pretty sure everyone agrees with that. But Lebron is a better overall player than Durant there really isn't an argument for the contrary.

Why are you trying to argue something that I'm not even arguing myself? Durant is the better shooter by a sizable (but not huge) margin. LeBron is a better rebounder, slightly better defender, and a slightly better passer.

re: Who is the NBA MVP this year? (Posted on 2/10/13 at 1:59 pm to Tim Taylor)

quote:See you're speaking in hypotheticals and fantasy drafts and all. No one doubts that LeBron is the best player right now by a hair over Durant. I'm sure if the LeBron (or Kobe or Durant or Melo) went to the Bobcats or Wizards, they could make then a 40-45 win team. No one doubts that, however it doesn't matter because we are dealing with reality here. LeBron is playing on a team that has a top 5 SG and a top 5 PF and every kind of supporting player they need (well they could use a bigger, stronger center, but no team is perfect).

If Bosh or Wade go down for season and LeBron has to take more of a burden the rest of the way and shows out, then yeah give it to him. However, at this point, he doesn't deserve the award (nor has anyone else really).

I guess it really comes down to how you define the award. If it's as you say then I agree that Lebron shouldn't even be a candidate.

re: Who is the NBA MVP this year? (Posted on 2/10/13 at 2:04 pm to Tim Taylor)

quote:Anyways, MVP =/= Best player. Let's be honest, if you replaced LeBron with say, Paul Pierce/Rudy Gay/Paul George, the Heat would have what? 1-3 less wins? They'd still be first in their division and just behind New York in the East.

re: Who is the NBA MVP this year? (Posted on 2/10/13 at 2:04 pm to BarbeTiger)

I think they'd have about 5 less wins. He's kind of right about that IMO. The reason lebron is the MVP imo is because he is the one player that is the difference in whether your team is going to win the title. Trade him for the best player on any of the best 5 teams and I think that team becomes the new favorite to win the title. My argument is more that he is the most valuable player "in the league".