Originally posted by DevilJin
I don't know about wish, but I do know Christians often specifically say "you are going to hell" thus speaking for the Christian God himself, which
is against the whole faith.

What on Earth are you talking about??? Where do you get this stuff from? Christians do not "often" say "you
are going to hell." That's an incredibly insulting lie on your part.

The majority of people that I know are Christian (most aren't practicing, however). NONE of them often say "you are going to hell" to anyone.
I've heard it said a few times but only in a joking manner after someone says or does something that they consider to be wrong. But normal
Christians do not go around telling people that they are going to hell.

I will admit that there are some radical wackjob Christians out there who tell those they consider to be sinners that they are going to hell. But all
religions have a radical fringe element. To lump us in with them, especially considering they represent such a small portion of our religion, is
ignorant of you.

Sometimes I really have to wonder where people like you come up with this stuff. You are so blinded by your hatred for organized religion, especially
Christianity, that you put absolutely no thought into the things you say and believe about Christians.

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
A lot of people who consider themselves Christians have no problem with God sending non-believers and sinners to eternal suffering. This has always
bothered me immensely, that God sends anyone to Hell, I can't think of a crime that deserves infinite punishment, and many Christians believe even
not believing is a crime worthy of eternal Hell.

Yes, it's quite a silly concept. I asked my friend if he believed Gandhi was sent to hell. He said yes. Now, I didn't bode on that one very long,
because then I asked him if he believed if kids who weren't born into christian families, or didn't live anywhere where it was possible to even hear
about Christianity; where are those people going?

In any event, I don't mind. It was just a casual conversation, we are best friends. I don't care what religion he is, he's a good person.

To break this down simply, your omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, and yes, omnibenevolent (meanng: unlimited or infinite benevolence) God knows of
all sinners before their birth and can visualize the 'evil' deeds they will perform; thus, being a loving, caring God would eradicate their
existence before it started, ensuring none of his followers were harmed by this person - so no need for hell.

Everything written in the bible was written by man, or handed down to man by God himself. Since man is fallible, we have to assume he was speaking to
God directly and hope the message came in loud and clear - if you want to rule out that we're dealing with Schizophrenia or any other mental illness
for that matter. But God also said "whatever you hold bound (true) on earth will be bound (held true) in heaven". So if that message was distorted
any, it wouldn't matter anyway. Man could have written any racist, sexist tripe and God would have held true to mans ideology. Since we cannot agree
on anything on Earth, I would assume Heaven is a very conflicted place, full of bitter resentment, anger and war - so I'll try Hell in that case.

"For those whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven; for those whose sins you retain, they are retained."; So you condemn somebody to eternity in
Hell? Take for example a good, well meaning human being, who happens to be a Christian, wrongly accused, tried and convicted of rape & murder. Your
omnipotent and omniscient God knew that this man was never guilty before the accusations, before the crime. As an omnipresent God he was at the crime
scene as well as the alibi location of the innocent man, but holds true in heaven what we hold true on earth therefore his sins are retained - only if
this man is pardoned and forgiven by man (who, again, is fallible) will he be saved from eternity in Hell.

Would I condemn somebody to Hell for eternity? I don't see the harm, but in case I am wrong (I don't profess to 'believe' in anything) I'll make
sure not to pass judgement.

Originally posted by spellbound
This is what I believe - that the old testament sent many people to hell - then Jesus was born, and He redeemed sinners.

So how do I reconcile the old testament with the new? I think that the old testament was meant to die when our Lord Jesus was born.

It is impolite to call what is relevant to a People "old." The name of the Jewish Scriptures is the Tanakh.

Actually, the Tanakh is much more practical than the NT. Just read Ezekiel 18. What the NT offers is a barbaric sacrifice of a Jewish man in order to
atone for lazy people. What is the point? Just to tell people who don't believe like you do that they will go to hell? Again ... we should have
evolved past this superstitious mentality.

No, I couldn't. I am an atheist, yet if Hell would exist, it would, in my eyes, contradict everything that religion tried to teach:forgiveness,
atonement, compassion etc.

Hell, as a concept is only useful to incite fear in people, or, even worse, used as a tool for power over others. "Good behavior" out of fear is not
real. "Doing The Right thing" should be internalized, not forced by fear for extraneous stimuli.

Oh and eh.: "There's no Hell but the one we create for ourselves" (By some wise person who's name eludes me for now)

There is just no way a creator could place one of His creations in a state of constant suffering for eternity. I just cannot agree with this notion of
hell - no matter if Satan himself deserves to be there. It would just go against the qualities of God himself to allow one of his entities to fall
into eternal damnation.

A God who instructs through His prophet that when one hates their enemies, he should love them. Those who curse him, he should praise. Those who wish
ill and suffering on him, he should wish them well and happiness. Those who are cursed and persecuted when defending His name and values should feel
honoured and in awe that they are not afraid to defend what is Godly and Holy.

The Kingdom of Heaven will be for those who lived a relatively moral life and helped others. Those who did great evil, did not show remorse and took
pleasure in harming others will cease to exist and forfeit their place in this Kingdom. That is their punishment.

"hell" is an invention, it is not explained like that in the scriptures.
Yu have a mental hell, a place of refinement, and a fire,
hell would be thrown in the fire...the fire is the end of
this reality. not never ending pain.
A god that is one, hurts himself forever if there exsist
a place like hell, our reality is enough pain for him.
In god things are functional. Never ending pain
is a waste of sense for a god that is one.

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
A lot of people who consider themselves Christians have no problem with God sending non-believers and sinners to eternal suffering.

Now assuming the "god" worshipped by Christians is real, and assuming that a general consensus is held amongst Christians in regards to Hell (a real
place of punishment, eternal, etc) why would they have a problem with it? Now you may say, "Oh but there is no proof these things exist." or, "It
was made up from mythology.", but even if it isn't real but they believe it, why would they have a problem with it?

This has always bothered me immensely, that God sends anyone to Hell,

Assuming "God" and Hell are real, why would this bother you?

I can't think of a crime that deserves infinite punishment,

Assuming "God" is real, how do you know he doesn't know of crimes that deserve infinite punishment?

and many Christians believe even not believing is a crime worthy of eternal Hell.

Ok, but what does any of this have to do with wishing hell on someone?

It depends. Human beings act almost entierly upon emotion when it comes to subjects like punishment. If someone harmed my family or friends in some
horrible way then no doubt i would be wishing an aternity of hell upon them, hoping they suffer horribly. This is because i would be reacting out of
emotion and not logic.

If i think of a crime at random, say murder then no i think an eternal punishment is far to much if you believe in the idea of hell as the punishment.

If there is a hell, I would say child molesters, pedophiles and rapists. Not murders(unless the people killing children are murderers) becasue,
everyone makes mistakes, 1 murder shouldnt make you spend an eternity in hell. 2, your starting to push it lol.

The thought of a child murderer burning in agony for all eternity kinda warms my heart.

However, "Hell" in the Biblical sense is merely death as we know it.

"The Lake of Fire" is what you're really talking about. That's a whole different place than "Hell". The "Lake of Fire" is also referred to as
the "second death"...and can be translated as meaning "non-existence". You might say it's "true death" for the "eternal" soul. It's also
referred to as a place "prepared for the devil and his angels", who aren't actually cast into it until the fulfillment of the "Millennial
Kingdom" on the Earth.

So, there's actual scriptural revelation about what you're referring to as "hell" and then there's centuries' worth of man-made mythological
doctrine about the subject.

That so-called "Christians" use the concept as fear tactic, and judgmentalism is sadly idiotic and a sore disservice to true believers of the holy
scriptures.

Originally posted by free_form
Yes, it's quite a silly concept. I asked my friend if he believed Gandhi was sent to hell. He said yes. Now, I didn't bode on that one very long,
because then I asked him if he believed if kids who weren't born into christian families, or didn't live anywhere where it was possible to even hear
about Christianity; where are those people going?

In any event, I don't mind. It was just a casual conversation, we are best friends. I don't care what religion he is, he's a good person.

And the irony of that is that Gandhi tried to become a Christian and was kicked out of the church by a church elder and threatened with violence if he
didn't leave. Though in the future he took the good things from Jesus's teachings he vowed never to become a Christian if it meant being part of the
church.

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
A lot of people who consider themselves Christians have no problem with God sending non-believers and sinners to eternal suffering. This has always
bothered me immensely, that God sends anyone to Hell, I can't think of a crime that deserves infinite punishment, and many Christians believe even
not believing is a crime worthy of eternal Hell.

No you cannot, christians idolise a human over the Good One which is far from correct, there should be no human intervention between you and the
Divine.

You cannot hurt anyone but yourself, there is no infinite punishment, you get what you deserve, action-reaction.

Do not believe the fabricated fairy tale constructed to divide the masses, religion has a core of truth but it's floating in a sea of perversions.

nope, i could not wish that on someone.
in fact, i'm not supposed to. it says judge not. jesus even said, while he was here, that he wouldn't bring a railing accusation against satan for
the same reason. think about that one! so i think the best position would be to just hope the best for everyone.

Excellently stated. You sir are a fine example of what a real Christian should be. That actually gives me some hope for Christianity as a whole.

This content community relies on user-generated content from our member contributors. The opinions of our members are not those of site ownership who maintains strict editorial agnosticism and simply provides a collaborative venue for free expression.