Trouble logging in?If you can't remember your password or are having trouble logging in, you will have to reset your password. If you have trouble resetting your password (for example, if you lost access to the original email address), please do not start posting with a new account, as this is against the forum rules. If you create a temporary account, please contact us right away via Forum Support, and send us any information you can about your original account, such as the account name and any email address that may have been associated with it.

Basically, the Meta-World seems to be a plane of existence where imaginary things are true. Who can speak on where Bern and Lambda came from, but they've been around a lot longer. Beatrice and her furniture are imaginary concepts created on Rokkenjima, but at the same time they exist in the Meta-World, and might have always been there. At the same time, the written stories and gameboards of Rokkenjima exist as alternate universes there.

The Meta-World basically seems to be a place where everything is real and nothing is fiction.

Ack! sorry, e-heh though maybe that's just as well.
I was pretty freaked out when I was trying to come up with those variations.

Maria as the culprit...as if she couldn't be creepy already.

Well, I was trying to keep it as close as possible to what we see in this rendition of the BotOT.
In the Japanese version it is ＊＊が犯人ッ!! ＊＊がッ＊＊＊がッ＊＊を殺したッ！＊＊を＊＊を＊＊を＊＊＊をッ!!!, which means the culprit has two Kanji (戦人、霧江、絵羽、秀吉、譲治、蔵臼、夏妃、楼座、紗音、観音、金蔵、源次、南條、熊沢、郷田 ), and one person with two Kanji and one person with three (留弗夫、朱志香、真里亞) Kanji killed a person with two, another three with two and one with three Kanji.

On another note, I got the February issue of Joker and the Interlude chapter in my mail yesterday. The chapter isn't that long and there's not that much new content that I'd rank it as interesting as CotGW or the last few main chapters, but it still delivers a good idea what life was like for the Hachijôs and an approximate indication of time scales.

Spoiler for EP8 Interlude:

Within the pitch-black darkness...

p.1
???:
I can hear it all the time
what is this sound

p.2-3
???:
..…
..…the sound of rain......?
...How long
...…
have I been here for...

p.5
Narrator:
...…
......

Ikuko:
...is this your garden?
If this is your garden, I should be the one apologizing.
I see, one wants to take an afternoon nap and dress up in such a wonderful garden on a day with such nice weather.
But if my memory doesn't fault me

p.6
Ikuko:
this is a national public road.
Do you want to be turned into minced meat that badly?
Or have you already been minced?
Whatever it is, I wish you would tell me.

p.9
Doctor:
Beyond that, the probability of memory impairment are quite high.
I can't know any further without a CT scan, but it is possible that the brain has been damaged.
But it merely seems to be damaged and overall he seems fine.
If he had kept lying there it wouldn't have ended this well for him though.
So,
at any rate, I advise that you should have him looked at in a bigger hospital.

Ikuko:
Thank you, Doctor.
...I would like you to keep this case secret.
This isn't much, but please accept it as a travel compensation for your house call.

Doctor:
I won't reveal this to anyone...
But I simply cannot accept this money

p.10
Ikuko:
Oh my, you've woken up.
How are you feeling now?
I am Hachijô Ikuko.
You can just call me Ikuko or stay formal and say Miss Hachijô, I don't mind either way.

Narrator:
Hachijô...
Ikuko...

Ikuko:
Around these parts the Hachijô family is quite well known as big landowners.
But compared to the good records of my big brothers I am a little weird and have had a few slippages.

p.11
Ikuko:
I have done quite a lot of wrong things, so I've long lost my parents grace. They've given up on me.
They basically keep me confined to this place now.
My hobby is reading and writing mystery and detective novels.
My age is a secret and I am single.
My heart is that of a young girl, but I am already approaching an age where it's just kind of ridiculous to say that.
Hihihihi

p.13
Narrator:
My
name is...?
I can't remember.
I can't remember...?
Even though I understand logically that I have a name, I can't recall any more than that I am human
My head and my heart, it's torn up as if it's ground meat
I can't remember anything.........

p.13
???:
Who...
am I.........??

Narrator:
I don't understand...
But I had some kind of mission...or a goal I think

Ikuko:
So, do you remember anything else besides your name?

Narrator:
The back of my brain feels numb
Who am I?
Where was I born?
When was I born?
I don't care, I just want to remember anything...
...a...ge...

p.14
Ikuko:
Age?
My age is a secret!

???:
18
years...?

Ikuko:
I look like 18?

???:
.......I am....
...18...years old...

Ikuko:
Oh, you meant your own age
And I already thought you started flattering me

p.15-16
Calendar:
October

Narrtor:
To be quite honest
I only had a vague feeling about actually being 18
It felt as if my spirit had stayed young forever and just my silly body had continued aging
Just...when I asked myself about my age, the number ''18'' floated to the surface...

Ikuko:
I see, so you are 18
And you don't remember anything other than that...
then how about, until you remember your own name,
we give you a name that is written as 18 in Japanese, with the reading Tôya?!
Hachijô Tôya...
how about it?
Yeah, I think that's quite manly
I've chosen well, yes yes!

Tôya:
Hachijô...
Tôya...

p.17
Narrator:
And from then onwards
I became known as Hachijô Tôya
I was being told that my body couldn't move properly because of a traffic incident I had been in
I was hit by a car right there on that day
and then apparently picked up by Ikuko who found me collapsed.
The unkind thought that it must have been her and no other who had hit me on that day came to sometimes
but I drew it back once I saw that there was not even a scratch on the bumper of her car.

p.18
Narrator:
I continued my rehabilitation slowly, while I was being taken care of at her house.
Step by step I regained control over my body.
Yet...

Ikuko:
Tôya?

Narrator:
The impairment of my brain wouldn't get better.

p.19
Ikuko:
I was really surprised.
You became totally entranced and then read through it in one go...as if you just flew over the sentences...
It seems like your quite crafted at speed-reading.
...so how was it? Honest impression.

Tôya:
It was really good!
You should just maybe insert an explanation of the ocean currents, or else it's unfair as a detective novel.
But it was so good that there was foreshadowing about the ring from the very beginning.
I unconsciously started growling when I read over that part again...!
But that feeling is the epitome of detective fiction, I think!

p.20
Tôya:
...uhm
I think I said something rude...
...I'm sorry

Ikuko:
No!
Why are you apologizing?
I am just surprised!
Such accurate impressions are absolutely worthy of praise!
Are you a literary critic by any chance?
You seem to even have some talent as a mystery author yourself!

Narrator:
.......
......

p.21
Narrator:
...detective novels
author...
critique...
a mystery
battle
I have this feeling that I exchanged arguments about this topic before
...............

Tôya:
Thank you
It's better already

Ikuko:
Tôya!
If you want you can have surgery any time.

Narrator:
Brain surgery
If I undergo that surgery, even if there is no guarantee that it will restore my memory, it would at least lessen the frequency of the headaches, the doctor said.

Tôya:
.......
....no
I have already gotten used...to this headache being a part of me

Narrator:
Actually

p.22
Narrator:
I was afraid that the true me, sleeping somewhere in my brain, might get hurt during surgery.
I am now a new person called Hachijô Tôya,
and I have to get used to this new life.
Gradually my interest shifted towards Ikuko.
She was a peculiar woman.
She was way too rebellious
She lived in this mansion that she got from her parents in turns of being disinherited
while making her servants do everything for her and living a life in luxury.

p.23
Narrator:
She seems to have never been that sociable, there's not even friends coming to visit her.
The only company to talk with she has is me and her old cat Bern.
She seems to be at an age where she would be just about still marriagable*, but practically being retired in a place like this, it's no wonder she doesn't meet anybody.
I suppose she must have already given up on marriage.
Her daily life is quite monotonous.
Ordering or searching for mystery novels, or writing something herself
it was either one of those.
At first I thought she was a professional mystery writer, but her drafts always ended up being clipped together and thrown on a pile of other drafts.
I didn't ever notice her letting somebody beside me read them.

p.24
Narrator:
Being an author is a profession where you make other people read what you have written
So somebody like her, who doesn't let anybody read what she writes, can impossibly called an author.

Tôya:
Ikuko, why do you never show these drafts to anybody?

Ikuko:
I'm showing them to you.
Of course only the ones I'm satisfied with.

Tôya:
It's kind of sad. I bet it would be great if you applied to a publisher somehwere.

Ikuko:
My works are not pro-material
I send one in once, but it wasn't any good.
It's nothing more than amateur entertainment.

Tôya:
Somebody with knowledge of any kind of mystery novels and trends
doesn't really have the right to call herself an amateur.

Ikuko:
A gormaunt doesn't automatically make a good cook.
This is no different.

Ikuko:
Now it is fun to hear your impression.
I have finished the first chapter for the time being.
I will have some tea ordered, so please let me hear your oppinion on it.

p.26
Narrator:
No matter if it's reading or writing mystery novels
it just has to be boring if it is just on your own.
Sharing your world with somebody
anything special will surely just grow larger.

Tôya:
.......?

Ikuko:
Tôya?

Tôya:
...I'm alright. More importantly
I am looking forward to reading the new chapter.

p.27-28
We spent our days together with discourses on mystery novels, as well as talking about new plots and ideas.
Before I knew it I was lured in by her and stepped into the world of drawing up my own mystery novels.
It seemed like my former self had possessed quite a talent for mystery novels.
Using intimate knowledge of famous mysteries and turning them on their heads by keeping to think about new ideas to insert.
She helped me cultivate that writing skill she had picked up upon.
During this days of creating mystery novels as a team to amuse just the two of us, nothing really changed for the better – yet we were content.
This was my new life as Hachijô Tôya –

Tôya:
You really do live a long time, do you?!

p.29
Tôya:
Could it be that you are actually a ghost cat?

Ikuko:
Tôya, the manuscript is finished!!
So what do we do now?
I used your plot, but I made the tragic love story of Tsujiko even more sad at the end.

Tôya:
I think that's great...!
With the last farewell being really sad, it didn't just work out as a detective novel but as a general piece of fiction too.

p.30
Ikuko:
It was only because I had your great plot as a basis
Compared to this work, all my previous attempts are nothing more than scrap-paper.
I felt so enthralled while writing, being the first in the world to actually read it...it's the first time I ever felt this way!

Tôya:
I only put some ideas out there.
No story is finished with just ideas.
You were the one who made it possible for them to bloom into a proper story like this.
This is a masterpiece that you don't need to hide from anybody...!

Ikuko:
You are right...!
This is the greatest piece of fiction I have ever created...!
So let's celebrate!

p.31
Tôya:
Ikuko, I have a proposition to make. May I?

Ikuko:
Let's hear it!
When it comes to your ideas, I will always lend you an ear...unless I'm in the shower or on the toilet...!

Tôya:
Why don't we try and hand in our joint piece of work?
I have never read any piece of fiction better than this.
I bet a lot of people will come up dying to read this.

Ikuko:
But...I also thought so back then...and then in the end...

p.32
Tôya:
I firmly believe in your talent, Ikuko!
How about you?

Ikuko:
I also firmly believe in your talent...!

Tôya:
Then it's decided!
To your major debut, Ikuko...!

Ikuko:
To your major debut, Tôya...!

p.34
Ikuko:
Of course, I totally forgot, Tôya!!
I also thought about opening this here once we finish the manuscript!

Tôya:
Ikuko, I can't...
I can't drink any more...
I'm tired...

Ikuko:
Hahaha
It's alright, Tôya. This is something which might be way better than alcohol!

p.36
Tôya:
............
Ikuko, please turn the lights on.
It's not good for your eyes to sit at the computer in the dark.

Ikuko:
...Oh
Did I wake you up?

Tôya:
No, the sound of rain...
And the wind seems so strong
The raingutter will clutter with leaves again...

Narrator:
...rain.......
Just like on that day when I was picked up by Ikuko...
........

p.37
Tôya:
You are quite enthusiastic about the computer lately.
Was there some interesting article on the Internet?

Ikuko:
While I think it's complete hogwash, it is quite fascinating.
Tôya....
what do you think are the motives for people to kill one another?

Tôya:
Is that material for a new novel?
Social standing, honor, revenge, money...things like that right?

Ikuko:
In the world of mysteries, yes.
But in reality overwhelming numbers are unplanned, sudden murders resulting out of a trivial quarrel or some strange tension just in that moment...

p.38
Ikuko:
From a psychological perspective
men do it for social standing, or fame, or even to make a lover forever theirs,
women do it to escape from somebody who keeps them bound
and most undiscriminate killers do it out of a suicide wish,
they recreate themselves in a way that they are worthy of death and commit murder to give themselves determination to end it.

Tôya:
.......
Are you thinking about creating a story where motive is the main theme next?

Ikuko:
Hihihi
It is really fascinating

p.39
Ikuko:
That Rokkenjima Incident we had been talking about!

p.40:
Tôya:
...Rokken
...jima...?

Ikuko:
A few days ago we talked about the Rokkenjima mystery, right?!
That incident where culprit, motive, even the circumstances of the day of the crime remain a mystery.
And that is booming right now on the net!
The theories and thoughts about it
and among them those forgeries, they are really fascinating!
Forgeries are written on the hypothesis that there exist more than that one message bottle signed by Ushiromiya Maria that drifted ashore on that neighbouring island...
Here, look at this!
A few days ago,
I picked this up at the ocean near the road where I picked you up and I thought we would read it together.
But more than a forgery it's content was like the message bottle from „And Then There Were None“!

p.41
Ikuko:
But it's content was really interesting...!
Maybe by some chance an author of really elaborate forgeries lives just close by!
Or this might even be the real deal, a message bottle by the culprit!

p.42
Internet-site:
[Rokkenjima Explosion Accident]
Occured on October 5th 1986 at 24o'clock on Rokkenjima within the Izu archipelago.
It is rumored that, seeking after the great fortune and hidden gold of family head Ushiromiya Kinzô, a fight where blood was avenged by blood broke out among the family members, but the truth is still within a catbox.
Going by the scale of the explosion, it is hard to think of it as a mere accident,
and the likelihood of a planned mass murder is high.

Narrator:
Who

Internet-site:
...survivor Ushiromiya Eva keeps her silence.
...following her death, since she escaped harm by being absent on said date...
...miya Ange will inherit her whole fortune.
...took over raising Ange immediately after the incident,
...makes one consider it being part of a performance.
...shiromiya Ange

Narrator:
Who are these voices calling out my name?
I don't know them!

Ikuko:
...Tôya?

Narrator:
That is
not my name!

Tôya:
..........
......ah

p.45
Narrator:
Help me...
Iku...ko......

Ikuko:
Tôya...!!

p.46
Ikuko:
TÔYA...!!

Paperstack from Message Bottle:
Confession of the golden witch

From next time onward the confession of the Golden Witch shall be told–!!

From what it sounds and looks like, I'd say that Tôya lived with Ikuko quite a while before the topic of Rokkenjima even came up. The way the chapter depicts Ikuko also makes it fairly unlikely that she is Sayo...or Sayo has an actual problem with multiple personalities (or is the biggest dick in the world to everybody including herself). I mean, why would she spent YEARS with the person she loves, make him a completely new person, only to spring the incident on him almost a decade later.
I'd say the events sorrounding the uncorking of CotGW don't happen until around 1993-95 for several factors. The chapter depicts a long line of scene-to-scene panels, depicting Ikuko and Tôya growing close over an extended period of time, the internet-article clearly mentions the inheritance towards Ange and Eva's death (which apparently only became a central thing when Ange was already in her teens), also internet itself only became a thing in the early 90s and wasn't commonly available until the mid 90s in Japan.

I also find it interesting how Tôya faints before he can apparently read CotGW and that only Ikuko has read it at that point.

From a psychological perspective
men do it for social standing, or fame, or even to make a lover forever theirs,
women do it to escape from somebody who keeps them bound
and most undiscriminate killers do it out of a suicide wish,
they recreate themselves in a way that they are worthy of death and commit murder to give themselves determination to end it.

While we already knew beforehand that Sayo had gender issues, Ikukko was able to identify almost all of his/her motives and assign a gender towards each motive. Even ignoring the gender issues, she identified how Sayo made herself into a culprit, so the murder-suicide looks justified.

This is especially odd, when judging by the narrative it looks like to confession bottle hasn't been opened yet (assuming she was going to open it with Tohya. Without the images it's hard to tell.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by haguruma

I also find it interesting how Tôya faints before he can apparently read CotGW and that only Ikuko has read it at that point.

Nevermind, it looks as though Ikuko did read the book, judging by your description.

Incidentally, as my 2nd post here, I wanted to thank you for bringing us up to date with manga translations, I'm sure everybody greatly appreciates it.

I seem to have fallen behind on the out-of-VN canon... So I've read the games and various TIP translations, but does someone have a list of the other canon works like this "CotGW"? Or are these mostly just from the manga?

This is especially odd, when judging by the narrative it looks like to confession bottle hasn't been opened yet (assuming she was going to open it with Tohya. Without the images it's hard to tell.)

I will try to make some pictures, when looking at them it's clear that Ikuko opened the bottle after Tôya fell asleep. She is basically a different person after he wakes up, totally obsessed with the Rokkenjima incident. That is why she says that she had "wanted to read it together" and that it s not a forgery but more like the confession from the end of And Then There Were None.

I found that interesting as I said, since Tôya faints without having read the confession (as it seems) and without completely remembering Ange (but having flashes when reading her name in internet articles). So if we wanted to place a point where the meta-Beatrice of the first few games started, that could be here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBackpack

I seem to have fallen behind on the out-of-VN canon... So I've read the games and various TIP translations, but does someone have a list of the other canon works like this "CotGW"? Or are these mostly just from the manga?

It's just manga information. The last two EP7 chapters delivered the solution of the first 4 games as in the VN but with more information both in pictures and text, and the EP8 manga has been a completely revised version of the VN, adding much more content in.
Confession of the Golden Witch (CotGW) is a bonus-story which ran in the March till May issue of GANGAN-Joker and showed the whole content of Sayo's confession found by Ikuko in the Interlude chapter. You can find links to my translation posts on the current last page of the manga thread.

I will try to make some pictures, when looking at them it's clear that Ikuko opened the bottle after Tôya fell asleep. She is basically a different person after he wakes up, totally obsessed with the Rokkenjima incident. That is why she says that she had "wanted to read it together" and that it s not a forgery but more like the confession from the end of And Then There Were None.

If you provide pictures, that would be great! Since you gave us a description stating that Confessions was already opened, you've already clarified it for me. Thank you.

That does leave to wonder, why the sudden difference after he woke up? Is it possible that Ikuko knew who Tohya was by that point?

P.S. What is the correct spelling for Tohya? I'm getting different variations everywhere I go.

Last edited by Void_Heart; 2014-06-10 at 00:51.
Reason: Spelling Errors

That does leave to wonder, why the sudden difference after he woke up? Is it possible that Ikuko knew who Tohya was by that point?

Well, even if we consider that this must have taken place sometime in the 90s, there is still a good 2-4 years to go until Ange will leave on her journey in 1998 and we get to Featherikuko...
We also have the VN info that the knowledge of his true identity and the truth of Rokkenjima drove Tôya to the brink of suicide...we will see if this is further explored in the manga, but that could imply that he was actually not telling Ikuko anything about the truth either. Though her ability to speak in Red that Eva's diary contains the truth implies that Tôya told her something or that she puzzled it together.

But with Tôya actually changing after remembering the truth and keeping things even from Ikuko it could explain the plot of Chiru a lot better.

Quote:

P.S. What is the correct spelling for Tohya? I'm getting different variations everywhere I go.

Well, the correct spelling is 十八 (とおや), simply taking the Kana this is to-o-ya, but it is pronounced Tohya with a long O. Other ways of writing include Tôya (which is the system used at most universities) or Tooya (which could confuse English-speakers into calling him Tuhya).

Originally, I was referring to Ikuko's change after reading confessions. What changed her, not Tôya?

Well, the Interlude clearly depicts her as being obsessed to a very creepy degree with the Rokkenjima incident. To her this bottle seems to be like a drug, pure entertainment...her first instinct is considering that a forgery author is living close to them and only as a second thought does she consider it being the real deal.

Quote:

Who has access to Legend and Turn?

Well, Ôtsuki said that he had seen the original message bottles and it is likely that their content circulated the internet somehow. Ikuko had already read about the incident and talked about it with Tôya...at least about it being a thing. So one can assume that a general outline of Legend and Turn can be found on the internet (especially if it's already 8~10 years later).

Quote:

If we have Confessions, If Meta Battler is Tôya, the why struggle with those two, before writing the others, given that he had an answer book in the real world at the time?

The question is if and when he read CotGW, the chapter ends with him loosing his consciousness, so a lot is still possible, I think we have to wait on what actually the manga tells us from here on onward.
He has an answer book in a way, but it doesn't really answer the question what happened on the island, especially if he doesn't really remember the events of that day.

Right now it appears almost as if EP1-5 happened in Tôya's head even before he actually had a chance to read Confession.

Quote:

Did Tôya write End of The Golden Witch, after reading Confessions, or before and altered it after knowing the truth?

Well, if we take the Meta story into account, this is a story neither written by Beato nor Battler. This implies to me that this might also actually be a story found on the internet that Tôya tried tackeling.
The scene where he lies defeated and a ghostly Beato comes and saves him could as well be him reading Confession...or figuring it out before actually reading it.

Well, I was trying to keep it as close as possible to what we see in this rendition of the BotOT.
In the Japanese version it is ＊＊が犯人ッ!! ＊＊がッ＊＊＊がッ＊＊を殺したッ！＊＊を＊＊を＊＊を＊＊＊をッ!!!, which means the culprit has two Kanji (戦人、霧江、絵羽、秀吉、譲治、蔵臼、夏妃、楼座、紗音、観音、金蔵、源次、南條、熊沢、郷田 ), and one person with two Kanji and one person with three (留弗夫、朱志香、真里亞) Kanji killed a person with two, another three with two and one with three Kanji.

On another note, I got the February issue of Joker and the Interlude chapter in my mail yesterday. The chapter isn't that long and there's not that much new content that I'd rank it as interesting as CotGW or the last few main chapters, but it still delivers a good idea what life was like for the Hachijôs and an approximate indication of time scales.

Spoiler for EP8 Interlude:

Within the pitch-black darkness...

p.1
???:
I can hear it all the time
what is this sound

p.2-3
???:
..…
..…the sound of rain......?
...How long
...…
have I been here for...

p.5
Narrator:
...…
......

Ikuko:
...is this your garden?
If this is your garden, I should be the one apologizing.
I see, one wants to take an afternoon nap and dress up in such a wonderful garden on a day with such nice weather.
But if my memory doesn't fault me

p.6
Ikuko:
this is a national public road.
Do you want to be turned into minced meat that badly?
Or have you already been minced?
Whatever it is, I wish you would tell me.

p.9
Doctor:
Beyond that, the probability of memory impairment are quite high.
I can't know any further without a CT scan, but it is possible that the brain has been damaged.
But it merely seems to be damaged and overall he seems fine.
If he had kept lying there it wouldn't have ended this well for him though.
So,
at any rate, I advise that you should have him looked at in a bigger hospital.

Ikuko:
Thank you, Doctor.
...I would like you to keep this case secret.
This isn't much, but please accept it as a travel compensation for your house call.

Doctor:
I won't reveal this to anyone...
But I simply cannot accept this money

p.10
Ikuko:
Oh my, you've woken up.
How are you feeling now?
I am Hachijô Ikuko.
You can just call me Ikuko or stay formal and say Miss Hachijô, I don't mind either way.

Narrator:
Hachijô...
Ikuko...

Ikuko:
Around these parts the Hachijô family is quite well known as big landowners.
But compared to the good records of my big brothers I am a little weird and have had a few slippages.

p.11
Ikuko:
I have done quite a lot of wrong things, so I've long lost my parents grace. They've given up on me.
They basically keep me confined to this place now.
My hobby is reading and writing mystery and detective novels.
My age is a secret and I am single.
My heart is that of a young girl, but I am already approaching an age where it's just kind of ridiculous to say that.
Hihihihi

p.13
Narrator:
My
name is...?
I can't remember.
I can't remember...?
Even though I understand logically that I have a name, I can't recall any more than that I am human
My head and my heart, it's torn up as if it's ground meat
I can't remember anything.........

p.13
???:
Who...
am I.........??

Narrator:
I don't understand...
But I had some kind of mission...or a goal I think

Ikuko:
So, do you remember anything else besides your name?

Narrator:
The back of my brain feels numb
Who am I?
Where was I born?
When was I born?
I don't care, I just want to remember anything...
...a...ge...

p.14
Ikuko:
Age?
My age is a secret!

???:
18
years...?

Ikuko:
I look like 18?

???:
.......I am....
...18...years old...

Ikuko:
Oh, you meant your own age
And I already thought you started flattering me

p.15-16
Calendar:
October

Narrtor:
To be quite honest
I only had a vague feeling about actually being 18
It felt as if my spirit had stayed young forever and just my silly body had continued aging
Just...when I asked myself about my age, the number ''18'' floated to the surface...

Ikuko:
I see, so you are 18
And you don't remember anything other than that...
then how about, until you remember your own name,
we give you a name that is written as 18 in Japanese, with the reading Tôya?!
Hachijô Tôya...
how about it?
Yeah, I think that's quite manly
I've chosen well, yes yes!

Tôya:
Hachijô...
Tôya...

p.17
Narrator:
And from then onwards
I became known as Hachijô Tôya
I was being told that my body couldn't move properly because of a traffic incident I had been in
I was hit by a car right there on that day
and then apparently picked up by Ikuko who found me collapsed.
The unkind thought that it must have been her and no other who had hit me on that day came to sometimes
but I drew it back once I saw that there was not even a scratch on the bumper of her car.

p.18
Narrator:
I continued my rehabilitation slowly, while I was being taken care of at her house.
Step by step I regained control over my body.
Yet...

Ikuko:
Tôya?

Narrator:
The impairment of my brain wouldn't get better.

p.19
Ikuko:
I was really surprised.
You became totally entranced and then read through it in one go...as if you just flew over the sentences...
It seems like your quite crafted at speed-reading.
...so how was it? Honest impression.

Tôya:
It was really good!
You should just maybe insert an explanation of the ocean currents, or else it's unfair as a detective novel.
But it was so good that there was foreshadowing about the ring from the very beginning.
I unconsciously started growling when I read over that part again...!
But that feeling is the epitome of detective fiction, I think!

p.20
Tôya:
...uhm
I think I said something rude...
...I'm sorry

Ikuko:
No!
Why are you apologizing?
I am just surprised!
Such accurate impressions are absolutely worthy of praise!
Are you a literary critic by any chance?
You seem to even have some talent as a mystery author yourself!

Narrator:
.......
......

p.21
Narrator:
...detective novels
author...
critique...
a mystery
battle
I have this feeling that I exchanged arguments about this topic before
...............

Tôya:
Thank you
It's better already

Ikuko:
Tôya!
If you want you can have surgery any time.

Narrator:
Brain surgery
If I undergo that surgery, even if there is no guarantee that it will restore my memory, it would at least lessen the frequency of the headaches, the doctor said.

Tôya:
.......
....no
I have already gotten used...to this headache being a part of me

Narrator:
Actually

p.22
Narrator:
I was afraid that the true me, sleeping somewhere in my brain, might get hurt during surgery.
I am now a new person called Hachijô Tôya,
and I have to get used to this new life.
Gradually my interest shifted towards Ikuko.
She was a peculiar woman.
She was way too rebellious
She lived in this mansion that she got from her parents in turns of being disinherited
while making her servants do everything for her and living a life in luxury.

p.23
Narrator:
She seems to have never been that sociable, there's not even friends coming to visit her.
The only company to talk with she has is me and her old cat Bern.
She seems to be at an age where she would be just about still marriagable*, but practically being retired in a place like this, it's no wonder she doesn't meet anybody.
I suppose she must have already given up on marriage.
Her daily life is quite monotonous.
Ordering or searching for mystery novels, or writing something herself
it was either one of those.
At first I thought she was a professional mystery writer, but her drafts always ended up being clipped together and thrown on a pile of other drafts.
I didn't ever notice her letting somebody beside me read them.

p.24
Narrator:
Being an author is a profession where you make other people read what you have written
So somebody like her, who doesn't let anybody read what she writes, can impossibly called an author.

Tôya:
Ikuko, why do you never show these drafts to anybody?

Ikuko:
I'm showing them to you.
Of course only the ones I'm satisfied with.

Tôya:
It's kind of sad. I bet it would be great if you applied to a publisher somehwere.

Ikuko:
My works are not pro-material
I send one in once, but it wasn't any good.
It's nothing more than amateur entertainment.

Tôya:
Somebody with knowledge of any kind of mystery novels and trends
doesn't really have the right to call herself an amateur.

Ikuko:
A gormaunt doesn't automatically make a good cook.
This is no different.

Ikuko:
Now it is fun to hear your impression.
I have finished the first chapter for the time being.
I will have some tea ordered, so please let me hear your oppinion on it.

p.26
Narrator:
No matter if it's reading or writing mystery novels
it just has to be boring if it is just on your own.
Sharing your world with somebody
anything special will surely just grow larger.

Tôya:
.......?

Ikuko:
Tôya?

Tôya:
...I'm alright. More importantly
I am looking forward to reading the new chapter.

p.27-28
We spent our days together with discourses on mystery novels, as well as talking about new plots and ideas.
Before I knew it I was lured in by her and stepped into the world of drawing up my own mystery novels.
It seemed like my former self had possessed quite a talent for mystery novels.
Using intimate knowledge of famous mysteries and turning them on their heads by keeping to think about new ideas to insert.
She helped me cultivate that writing skill she had picked up upon.
During this days of creating mystery novels as a team to amuse just the two of us, nothing really changed for the better – yet we were content.
This was my new life as Hachijô Tôya –

Tôya:
You really do live a long time, do you?!

p.29
Tôya:
Could it be that you are actually a ghost cat?

Ikuko:
Tôya, the manuscript is finished!!
So what do we do now?
I used your plot, but I made the tragic love story of Tsujiko even more sad at the end.

Tôya:
I think that's great...!
With the last farewell being really sad, it didn't just work out as a detective novel but as a general piece of fiction too.

p.30
Ikuko:
It was only because I had your great plot as a basis
Compared to this work, all my previous attempts are nothing more than scrap-paper.
I felt so enthralled while writing, being the first in the world to actually read it...it's the first time I ever felt this way!

Tôya:
I only put some ideas out there.
No story is finished with just ideas.
You were the one who made it possible for them to bloom into a proper story like this.
This is a masterpiece that you don't need to hide from anybody...!

Ikuko:
You are right...!
This is the greatest piece of fiction I have ever created...!
So let's celebrate!

p.31
Tôya:
Ikuko, I have a proposition to make. May I?

Ikuko:
Let's hear it!
When it comes to your ideas, I will always lend you an ear...unless I'm in the shower or on the toilet...!

Tôya:
Why don't we try and hand in our joint piece of work?
I have never read any piece of fiction better than this.
I bet a lot of people will come up dying to read this.

Ikuko:
But...I also thought so back then...and then in the end...

p.32
Tôya:
I firmly believe in your talent, Ikuko!
How about you?

Ikuko:
I also firmly believe in your talent...!

Tôya:
Then it's decided!
To your major debut, Ikuko...!

Ikuko:
To your major debut, Tôya...!

p.34
Ikuko:
Of course, I totally forgot, Tôya!!
I also thought about opening this here once we finish the manuscript!

Tôya:
Ikuko, I can't...
I can't drink any more...
I'm tired...

Ikuko:
Hahaha
It's alright, Tôya. This is something which might be way better than alcohol!

p.36
Tôya:
............
Ikuko, please turn the lights on.
It's not good for your eyes to sit at the computer in the dark.

Ikuko:
...Oh
Did I wake you up?

Tôya:
No, the sound of rain...
And the wind seems so strong
The raingutter will clutter with leaves again...

Narrator:
...rain.......
Just like on that day when I was picked up by Ikuko...
........

p.37
Tôya:
You are quite enthusiastic about the computer lately.
Was there some interesting article on the Internet?

Ikuko:
While I think it's complete hogwash, it is quite fascinating.
Tôya....
what do you think are the motives for people to kill one another?

Tôya:
Is that material for a new novel?
Social standing, honor, revenge, money...things like that right?

Ikuko:
In the world of mysteries, yes.
But in reality overwhelming numbers are unplanned, sudden murders resulting out of a trivial quarrel or some strange tension just in that moment...

p.38
Ikuko:
From a psychological perspective
men do it for social standing, or fame, or even to make a lover forever theirs,
women do it to escape from somebody who keeps them bound
and most undiscriminate killers do it out of a suicide wish,
they recreate themselves in a way that they are worthy of death and commit murder to give themselves determination to end it.

Tôya:
.......
Are you thinking about creating a story where motive is the main theme next?

Ikuko:
Hihihi
It is really fascinating

p.39
Ikuko:
That Rokkenjima Incident we had been talking about!

p.40:
Tôya:
...Rokken
...jima...?

Ikuko:
A few days ago we talked about the Rokkenjima mystery, right?!
That incident where culprit, motive, even the circumstances of the day of the crime remain a mystery.
And that is booming right now on the net!
The theories and thoughts about it
and among them those forgeries, they are really fascinating!
Forgeries are written on the hypothesis that there exist more than that one message bottle signed by Ushiromiya Maria that drifted ashore on that neighbouring island...
Here, look at this!
A few days ago,
I picked this up at the ocean near the road where I picked you up and I thought we would read it together.
But more than a forgery it's content was like the message bottle from „And Then There Were None“!

p.41
Ikuko:
But it's content was really interesting...!
Maybe by some chance an author of really elaborate forgeries lives just close by!
Or this might even be the real deal, a message bottle by the culprit!

p.42
Internet-site:
[Rokkenjima Explosion Accident]
Occured on October 5th 1986 at 24o'clock on Rokkenjima within the Izu archipelago.
It is rumored that, seeking after the great fortune and hidden gold of family head Ushiromiya Kinzô, a fight where blood was avenged by blood broke out among the family members, but the truth is still within a catbox.
Going by the scale of the explosion, it is hard to think of it as a mere accident,
and the likelihood of a planned mass murder is high.

Narrator:
Who

Internet-site:
...survivor Ushiromiya Eva keeps her silence.
...following her death, since she escaped harm by being absent on said date...
...miya Ange will inherit her whole fortune.
...took over raising Ange immediately after the incident,
...makes one consider it being part of a performance.
...shiromiya Ange

Narrator:
Who are these voices calling out my name?
I don't know them!

Ikuko:
...Tôya?

Narrator:
That is
not my name!

Tôya:
..........
......ah

p.45
Narrator:
Help me...
Iku...ko......

Ikuko:
Tôya...!!

p.46
Ikuko:
TÔYA...!!

Paperstack from Message Bottle:
Confession of the golden witch

From next time onward the confession of the Golden Witch shall be told–!!

From what it sounds and looks like, I'd say that Tôya lived with Ikuko quite a while before the topic of Rokkenjima even came up. The way the chapter depicts Ikuko also makes it fairly unlikely that she is Sayo...or Sayo has an actual problem with multiple personalities (or is the biggest dick in the world to everybody including herself). I mean, why would she spent YEARS with the person she loves, make him a completely new person, only to spring the incident on him almost a decade later.
I'd say the events sorrounding the uncorking of CotGW don't happen until around 1993-95 for several factors. The chapter depicts a long line of scene-to-scene panels, depicting Ikuko and Tôya growing close over an extended period of time, the internet-article clearly mentions the inheritance towards Ange and Eva's death (which apparently only became a central thing when Ange was already in her teens), also internet itself only became a thing in the early 90s and wasn't commonly available until the mid 90s in Japan.

I also find it interesting how Tôya faints before he can apparently read CotGW and that only Ikuko has read it at that point.

You're awesome for all those translations!
Is there any chance you'll feel like translating also the past/future chapters?

The manga is revealing itself so much better than the VN I can't really wait to know what it says in details... though I'll understand if you'll say no as it's a lot of work and I understend it would be asking too much.

I'm sort of impressed by how I'm liking Ep 8 manga version though. For me Ep 8 VN version wasn't that great but in it's manga version it's one of my fave!

Quote:

Originally Posted by haguruma

Having reread it today, I would say that EP4 is inherently different from EP1 and 2 as well though, since it basically centralizes the plot of the family head Ushiromiya "Goldsmith" Lion and not that of Sayo/Beatrice. On the island plot we are introduced this time to an acting "Kinzo" who decides to sacrifice his whole family in order to "give back all that he owns in return for Beatrice". The idea of "being stopped" is only introduced at the very end when a human Beatrice (not necessarily the witch) and Battler encounter and she demands him remembering his promise and atoning for his sin. This is basically the story of the side of Sayo that has already given up hope for survival and only wants a last bit of gratification before her great family suicide.

Yes, which is quite ironical in a way as Battler hardly has any chance to stop her or solve things beyond assuming for some mysterious reason people agreed to lie to him in their most natural way before being killed.

In a way it resembles murder on the Orient Express, where everybody lies, but on the opposite side it's much harder to think people would agree lying in such way and then be killed just the same.

I guess part of what makes Umineko hard for me is that there are some things I find hard to believe. Sure, the author in the end confirmed we should just swallow them and I do but my feelings don't reall waver much. I still find it hard to believe. Maybe in some cases I'm missing something in my understanding of the characters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by haguruma

But Eva is not the culprit in Prime, Kyrie and Rudolph are the central killers in prime (I will for semantic reasons refrain from using the word murderer, since their action lacks a lot of the planning that goes with Sayo's idea of murder), yet the narrative of Banquet of the Golden Witch exists as a forgery in Prime.
Remember what Black-Battler said in Forgery No.xxx, he exists because of the many people who long for an explanation in which Ushiromiya Battler is the murderer. Eva-Beato to me is similar, she is an amalgamation of Eva-culprit-theories given shape.

Yes, but I thought that Banquet was written trying to mix together the fact we're on Sayo's gameboard with the belief many in Prime had that Eva was the killer... a theory Tohya might have embraced as he apparently doesn't remember much of what had happened even after years and in the beginning he remembered even less. Ergo he assumed Sayo started her game but then something went wrong and Eva ended up playing an unplanned role.

Because it's true it looks like Maria lead Rosa outside on purpose but the way Rosa and Maria were murdered made it look more like an incident during an argument (Rosa) and an istinctive act to cover up what had happened (Maria) than a planned murder.

Quote:

Originally Posted by haguruma

And yet it didn't work. Which is why I still believe that, if it was created by Ikuko, it was created before the Hachijo's knew the whole scope of the truth.

Well, it works with the theory that Eva is the culprit that everyone was embracing in Prime. It doesn't work with the truth that it was actually Rudolf and Kyrie who did most of the killing though. But as you said very likely back then the Hachijos didn't know the full truth.

Because it's Sayo the ones who orchestrates almost all the mysterious things that happen (though in Ep 2 Genji too did his share of killing).
In Ep 3 instead Eva ended up causing facts about which she wanted to push the blame on Beatrice so things got messed up.
This however made harder to figure out what's behind Sayo's actions in Ep 3.
If we assume that Eva rightfully solved the epitaph then according to Confession Sayo should have stopped murdering people and started serving Eva. So it could work she kept pretending of being dead and murders were carried out by Eva & Co but then it becomes harder to figure why Sayo ended up breaking her own rules and killing George, something Eva surely didn't want as she might have killed Nanjo to please Eva but George? Unless George committed suicide which I doubt Sayo should have no reason to kill him even if he were to discover she faked her own death. Also this would imply, as Eva doesn't suspect Sayo, that Eva doesn't know she was pretending to be dead.

The other option is that Eva didn't solve the epitaph but was handed the solution in exchange of her playing the role of accomplice (in Our Confession we see Beatrice showing Krauss and Natsuhi the gold... maybe she did the same here?) but had to keep her allegiance with Sayo as a secret so when Rosa becomes a threat to it she has a argument with her and ends up killing her and Maria which causes Kyrie to grow suspicious and so on.
Meanwhile as no one has solved the epitaph yet Sayo can decide to go around and kill people as well.

Honestly, I liked more how the solutions for Ep 5 & 6 were handed than how Umineko handed the solutions for Ep 1, 2, 3 & 4... but maybe they'll be discussed in the battle between Bern and Battler? Can a girl hope?

Quote:

Originally Posted by haguruma

I would agree that it is partly that, but it is also important that this scene extends into the Meta-Parlour. It is MetaBeato who then poses the questions about Battler's identity and this is where the individual planes really start mixing and it becomes a question of who is who, since this MetaBeato is also the one who recedes to the Golden Land in order to be with Maria and cries over her lost chances. So I wouldn't say she exists only in Tohya's mind in the sense that she is only made of Tohya, but also of what Sayo wished for, which becomes very apparent in the EP4 manga:
Sadly these two pages (1 and 2) had a horrible translation done to them...
It should actually be: "Try and stop me (Beatrice's form of me, warawa)! - If you just hadn't returned! - I never wanted to be born! - Can't I love anybody? - Please, whatever the outcome may be, at least in my stories... - ...kill me (Simple form of me also used by Shannon, watashi) - and if not that - you should die!"
What MetaBeato from EP1-5 likely is, is the lingering regret and the sadness of Sayo, kept alive by Tohya's feelings of guilt and him having been unable to do anything. This is for me also why MetaBattler (after he understands) becomes first so intent on giving Beato the happy ending she deserved (by trying to revive her and marry her in EP6) and also gave her eternal rest in EP7.

It can be. It can also be they reflected Tohya's doubts about his identity and his role. In Ep 5 too he questions if it's possible he's the culprit. Meta Battler talks about the gameboards but it's possible Tohya was afraid about being responsible of something in Prime that wasn't just... inspiring Sayo to play a realistic murder game. Honestly without knowing all the details interpreting the meta, although always interesting, sometimes feels like trying to interpret dreams. How much of Tohya's fears are reflected in the Meta? Which knowledge did he had at the time?

Quote:

Originally Posted by haguruma

Oh and concerning a former question that was raised by you I think, I had another look at the EP7 manga and it appears like the order of murders in EP4 is actually supposed to be: Kyrie, Krauss, Nanjo, the 5 adults in the dining hall, George, Gohda and Kumasawa, Jessica, Maria, and finally Genji.

Oh, thank you so much. I thought the murder of the first 6 was the first murder to take place as it was the first thing the scans showed, just after saying something along the line of everyone working to trick Battler.

In episode 3, the problem was Eva kept it secret that she solved the epitaph, and Sayo was forced to find ways to incorporate the new killings into her narrative without knowing why they had started.

She didn't figure it out until too late, and left the pin number behind to be found after she finally did. You can't stop the ritual by solving the epitaph if Sayo doesn't know you solved it...

Similarly Eva didn't know what Sayo's game was, and was genuinely alarmed and confused when she came back to the mansion to find the scene altered to have the stakes added. She saw the shootout as it really happened, and had her own cover story, but then this...?!

---

As for episode 8 and the manga, I'm still skeptical about how the Ikuko/Tohya story is being presented...I won't rule out taking it at face value, but it just feels like too many coincidences and hints that there's another layer as yet unrevealed. It might not be Ikuko=Yasu, but I still expect some more layers all the same.

I do like the parallels in the manga (and prior "Our Confessions") releases to the actual "simulating And Then There Were None" scenario and meta-scenario. We had our unexplained Island Mystery, and now, years later, the bottles are washing up on the shore...

I almost wonder if, also in parallel, the manga version of Ikuko WILL decide to reveal the diary contents to the public this time around, while the former Ikuko in the VN represented R07's own desire to keep the mystery in the catbox for the time being... as it is, we've seen Sayo's (or is that R07's again?) desire to have her catbox fantasy world expanded on in so many directions by all us goats since then, both in-game and beyond.

Metaverses within Metaverses.

__________________

---

(MyAnimeList banner on hiatus until I bother to update my MyAnimeList status again...)

It's that time of the month again...
Yes, the next chapter of EP8 is out, and while it doesn't deliver AS MUCH new content as the last few chapters brought us, it does bring some new light into things and especially makes the characters (AGAIN) better written, more streamlined and less plot-holey all throughout their development.

Spoiler for EP8 Chapter 26:

p.1
Knowing everything now, she asks for forgiveness...

Ange:
I'm sorry, aunt Eva...
For you, living with me as your adopted daughter...life was hell, I assume.
And by not opening up about it even at the very end, you were just protecting me...
You were always...my strongest ally...

p.2
Eva:
I am no noble person like that...
I did all of it out of self-preservation...
I was drowning in my own sorrow
and ended up not fulfilling anything I promised...

Ange:
But you did raise me.
Had I not chosen the wrong path on that day, we might have been able to built a new future together.

Eva:
Ange-chan

Ange:
I'm sorry...
And thank you, my second mother...

p.3
Ange:
Oniichan...
(thought) Is he angry...?
(thought) I disobeyed his directions and ended up reading the diary...
Battler...
Oniichan...

p.4
Chapter 26: Ultimatum

p.5
Battler:
I wasn't trying to force your decision
My game seems to have failed to make it's point
Because, no matter if you take a peek into the diary, I have no right whatsoever to blame you.
Even Erika and Beato told me.

Erika(memory):
The reason you loose is because you couldn't tell this to Ange's face while holding her in your arms!

p.6
Beato (flashback):
Who was it who told me that I should "just write a love-letter saying 'I like you'"?!
If you won't say anything then I will!
No, I actually have something to tell her as myself!
What Ange wishes for is neither consolation nor trickery!
She wants the truth concerning us all!
"Live"

Ange:
Yeah...
Beato's words had quite an impact

p.7
Ange:
Even though I got it now, I would have liked to have it in proper words
But that might just be me being a woman.

Battler:
Hey...stop pretending to be all adult now...

Ange:
...
This game...you did...
In other words...

Battler:
Who would actually willingly choose to show the ugly side of their family to his younger sister?
If I made it seem as if the negative points about our family were just their image in society, I thought I could wipe away the image you had in your mind...

Ange:
Yeah
(thought) So that was why it was all so cut down...

p.8
Battler:
I wasn't trying to hide the truth while plastering everything with illusions.
Even though there wasn't any Halloween party that day...

Ange:
....yeah
(thought) What he prepared for me...

Battler:
...If everyone hadn't been tied down by such heavy shackles, we could have all smiled like that.

Ange:
(thought)...was a game close to a heaven called Golden Land.

Battler:
All that is part of their true forms as well.

p.9
Ange:
Yes.
I was able to remember as well.
It was a gloomy and scary family, but there were also days you all made me smile and when we all smiled together...
And you were neither pure villains nor pure saints, but my family with a lot of thoughts and problems of your own.

p.10-11
Ange:
It' not like I have completely forgiven Beato yet, but I feel with her.
She was a victim as well.
And in a certain way, so was grandfather.
He got his life screwed up by the elders and can be called a victim of that...
You all lived with this twilight in your hearts...
And if the result of the chain of misfortune in this family was that fateful October 4th and 5th, then I want to understand all of them as one of them.
That is my first step in order not to continue down this chain of misfortune.
I finally feel like facing you all, not as culprits or victims of a crime, but as my family.

p.12
Ange:
Thank you, Oniichan.

p.13
Battler:
...we are all already dead.

Ange:
Yes

Battler:
You learned all that when you took a look at the One Truth.
That means that the source of your life during the last 12 years, that by some possibility there might be hope for somebody to live, has all been cleanely wiped out.

Ange:
.......
......yes

p.14
Battler:
I'm sorry for not being able to come home.

Ange:
.....
.....yes

Battler:
When I arrived at the truth of Beato's game, and when I understood the construction of the catbox that enveloped all of us,

p.15
Battler:
I knew that I couldn't go back home and live by your side.

Ange:
..........
......
yes

Battler:
But I also understood that telling you that would mean robbing all hope from you, so I just couldn't bring myself to tell you.

Ange:
yes....
....yes....

p.16-17
Battler:
I don't exist in the future.
But I will always be behind you, protecting you.
Because, I wish for your happiness together with all the others!

Ange:
...........
......yes...!

p.18
Battler:
....
What will you do now?

Ange:
To tell the truth, I have no idea yet.
I know I have to live, now that I have heard everybody's thoughts, but there's just not anything I want to do with my life.
I lived just for getting towards the One Truth, and now that I know it, I have no goal.

Battler:
Then how about putting a big titty pudding in front of my grave, for starters?

Ange:
WHAT?! Do you honestly wanna make a young girl buy something like that?!
Just go back to making fun of my hair!!

Battler:
Well, sometimes it's also quite soothing to just live while searching for something you want to do.

p.19
Ange:
....yes
But...
what I don't want to do is just keep lamenting that it "would have been better not to know" the truth I learned.
Another thing...
what happened to the Book of One Truth?!
I handed that key over to Bernkastel...

p.20
Lambda:
Well, according to the programme schedule the last convention on the Rokkenjima mystery for guests and goats should be happening right now.
Since they wanted to present your illusions before opening the catbox, we should be heading for the climax already, no?!
If it's over, the long-awaited opening time of the Book of the One Truth has finally come!

Ange:
Lambdadelta!

Battler:
Both the key and the book is in Bernkastel's hands...
Which means...
It wouldn't be surprising if the Book of the One Truth is opened at any moment now?!

p.21
Ange:
I was fixed on aunt Eva being the culprit, that's why I wanted to make it public, so that I could have my revenge on her by revealing her sins...
But now that I know the truth, there is no real reason to make it public
Even if it was made public...there is probably nobody who would gain something from it...
I have to go...
Bernkastel forgot to take this back when she threw me away.
With this bell you can freely pass through the barrier around the Capital of Books, so I can go there again and...

Lambda:
Oh, so you've got a Temporary Entry Permission instead of an invitation.
With that at least one person can enter now.
Well, in case somebody sends you through the ocean of Fragments that is.

p.22
Battler:
I'll go!
I will go and stop the Book of the One Truth from being made public!!
Please send me there, Lambdadelta!

p.23
Ange:
Oniichan...!

Lambda:
I don't care which one of you, but are you really sure?
Right now you are just a ghost, being given a momentary allowance to exist within Beato's catbox, and the spirit body of a human, who's a half-baked witch that lost Bern's protection.
The Capital of Books is a pandemonium, a hotbed of monsters among monsters.
For them you are bugs smaller than a fly! They'll just smack you into a gooey mess and that's it for you!

Battler:
...you're right.
But what do we get from waiting here?
If the One Truth is made public and the catbox is opened, it will end up like that anyway, or not?!

p.24
Battler:
No, even worse than just us, it's about Ange having a future.

If the One Truth is made public, people will inquire about Ange with even more inquisitiveness than ever before!
If her sorroundings turn to that, then even if she finally decided to live, she might end up making a heel-turn back here in the near future!
I will protect that future in which Ange strives to live!
That is my final duty as a big brother!

p.25
Ange:
.....
...no!
I will go!
I will not put this burden on you any longer!
I will take responsibility for the seeds I have sown!

Battler:
Let go, Ange!
Let me at least have one final moment to be cool!

Ange:
No!
This is my duty! I was the one who gave the key and the diary to Bernkastel!
This is where I draw the line!

p.26
Lambda (thoughts):
Which one would I have to take along to get the most entertaining development?
The Golden Land is already besieged by the naval fleet and there's no way to run.
It's a one-sided game in which Bern can destroy everything whenever she pleases.
If everyone's just waiting to be destroyed, it might be fun to make a hit-or-miss bet and attempt to take back the Book of the One Truth.
Anyhow, whomever I take there should be a chance for me to sneak out, but it's not like I wouldn't make enemies with that!
The most interesting ones are clearly Battler and Ange, it's just about who would weave the more dramatic story now.
But the constant ring-ring is getting on my nerves! Can't these two just get along?
I can't even think straight like this!
....gng

p.27
Lambda:
Stop you two! STOP!

Ange:
WHAT?! WE ARE HAVING A BROTHER-SISTER TALK HERE!

Lambda:
Just stop and let go off each other!!
Battler has the bell right now, right?
Battler, try jumping!

Battler:
Jumping?
?

*RING*

Lambda:
Now Ange!
Try jumping!

Ange:
?
Why me too...

p.28-29

*RING RING*

Ange:
....
....eh?
Why...? I received only one...

Lambda:
I wouldn't know why!
But anyway, you have two Entry Permissions now!
If there's two of them, you have no reason to fight!
The game this time around has always been for the sake of you two!
So just go already and bring an end to it together!

Battler:
Lambdadelta...!

Ange:
So...

p.30
Lambda:
Alright already?! I will only take you along to the capital of Books, alright?!
I will only watch from the sidelines how you guys fight and beat Bern black and blue!

Ange:
Okay!!

Battler:
Thank you, Lambdadelta!

Beato:
You're going, Ange?

Ange:
Everyone...

p.31
Beato:
Don't forget, whatver kind of ending you decide to weave, we are always at your side!

Ange (thought):
I won't let this game, created from the truth of everybodies hearts...

p.32
Ange (thought):
...ever be denied!!

p.33
Shannon:
A rowing boat?
Please stop right there!
I forbid you to come any closer.

p.34
Erika:
I come to deliver an ultimatum.

p.35
Kanon:
What is this about an ultimatum?!

Erika:
You must have a room for negotiations.
I wish to be taken there.

Kanon (thought):
Whatever the conditions she brings are, they won't be satisfactory

Shannon (thought):
...but it would be too hasty to turn her away at the gates

p.38
Beato:
I am the ruler of the Golden Land, the Endless and Golden Witch, Beatrice.
State your name!

Erika:
I have been sent as an ambassador of the noble Capital of Books, selected by her holiness the Witch of Theatergoing, Plays and Spectatorship.
A Witch of Truth, acting as Supreme Naval Commander to the Librarians bringing honor and safeguard to the Capital.
My name is Furudo Erika.

Beato:
State your business!

p.39
Erika:
Rejoice, for we have visited upon you bearing good news of high honor.
The gameboard created by the Golden Witch Beatrice has been chosen by the Capital to become an authorized addition, selected as worthy to the honor of the Capital of Books.

Beato:
I see

Erika:
This gameboard is exceedingly creative and has high research value and must thus be made public to all subjects.
Thus, we, the Capital, also swear to provide eternal honor and protection for this gameboard.

Beato:
This is just tedious and long!
Just go on and state the actual intent!

p.40
Erika:
The capitulation of the GM and all Pieces.
Furthermore we demand the transfer of everything connected to this gameboard to be transferred to the Capital of Books.
We assure you that the proper state of the game will be protected.
No Fragment that conflicts with your Red Truth can be created.

p.41
Beato:
If you can't or whatever, aren't you just now on the verge of revealing the One Truth?
There won't be any more new games once the truth is decided.

Erika:
What is being decided is just the truth.
But my master suggested that it would be a waste to let this gameboard vanish into obscurity, while many of Lady Beatrice's riddles remain unsolved.
This gameboard has to remain, even when the facts are decided.
This is the honorable protection we will provide.
And it is also for our subjects to equally and correctly enjoy this game.
For that a guideline has to be put forward.
Thus, in the event of a capitulation

p.42
Erika:
We will provide an honorable death for the gamemaster, Lady Beatrice.
And along with the gameboard, the rulebook written with her blood and guts will be eternally displayed in the Capital of Books.
Be at rest, when the ownership of the game is transferred to the Capital of Books, your game will not vanish even in the event of your death.
Many subjects will continue to weave your game for all eternity.
That was your wish, wasn't it?!

p.43
Beato:
So you are saying that, just like when I was repeating my games on end, the Pieces will be continuously tormented on.
What if I say no?

Erika:
What would you do with a game where you don't understand the rules?
A card game with rules you don't understand?
A board game with rules you don't understand?

Beato:
.......
Just make up rules of your own and play, right?!

Erika:
Exactly.
If you do not intend to surrender, you will be charged with the crime of monopolizing an important cultural asset, which all subjects should have joint access to, for your personal gains

p.44-45
Erika:
and will all be executed!
We will then take your corpses and the gameboard back with us and allow our subjects the right to participate in a game without any restrictions.
We will promise you an endless hell in an ever-looping October 4th and 5th, turned into a lawless zone!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayu-ayu

I won't rule out taking it at face value, but it just feels like too many coincidences and hints that there's another layer as yet unrevealed. It might not be Ikuko=Yasu, but I still expect some more layers all the same.

Well, the manga is kind of putting up Ikuko more as an unsuspecting outsider who ends up unwillingly becoming the villain to the story (aside from the fantasy-plot)...I do wonder how that will all turn around.
Ch26 now pretty much already set up the "I'm not Battler anymore and knowing all this I can impossibly face that girl" plot for the final Tohya reveal. Also, Lambda saying that Ange is a spirit body kind of leads me to the idea again that ALL of the Episodes are more or less fiction (as, the stories seen through the eyes of Battler and Ange) and that really only the Tea Parties or ??? elements take us a little outside of it. Not that the events of Ange's life in EP4 wouldn't be true, but they would be as much of a could-have-been scenario as the island-plots (both just minus the fantasy sparkles).

Quote:

I almost wonder if, also in parallel, the manga version of Ikuko WILL decide to reveal the diary contents to the public this time around

Looking at how the plot is made up it is quite unlikely that she'll actually reveal it, because it'd be like the villains winning. But I do wonder if it will be inserted a little bit more gracefully into the story as well...not just "Oh, my meta-self has just seen something moving...let's change reality!"

It's that time of the month again...
Yes, the next chapter of EP8 is out, and while it doesn't deliver AS MUCH new content as the last few chapters brought us, it does bring some new light into things and especially makes the characters (AGAIN) better written, more streamlined and less plot-holey all throughout their development.

Spoiler for EP8 Chapter 26:

p.1
Knowing everything now, she asks for forgiveness...

Ange:
I'm sorry, aunt Eva...
For you, living with me as your adopted daughter...life was hell, I assume.
And by not opening up about it even at the very end, you were just protecting me...
You were always...my strongest ally...

p.2
Eva:
I am no noble person like that...
I did all of it out of self-preservation...
I was drowning in my own sorrow
and ended up not fulfilling anything I promised...

Ange:
But you did raise me.
Had I not chosen the wrong path on that day, we might have been able to built a new future together.

Eva:
Ange-chan

Ange:
I'm sorry...
And thank you, my second mother...

p.3
Ange:
Oniichan...
(thought) Is he angry...?
(thought) I disobeyed his directions and ended up reading the diary...
Battler...
Oniichan...

p.4
Chapter 26: Ultimatum

p.5
Battler:
I wasn't trying to force your decision
My game seems to have failed to make it's point
Because, no matter if you take a peek into the diary, I have no right whatsoever to blame you.
Even Erika and Beato told me.

Erika(memory):
The reason you loose is because you couldn't tell this to Ange's face while holding her in your arms!

p.6
Beato (flashback):
Who was it who told me that I should "just write a love-letter saying 'I like you'"?!
If you won't say anything then I will!
No, I actually have something to tell her as myself!
What Ange wishes for is neither consolation nor trickery!
She wants the truth concerning us all!
"Live"

Ange:
Yeah...
Beato's words had quite an impact

p.7
Ange:
Even though I got it now, I would have liked to have it in proper words
But that might just be me being a woman.

Battler:
Hey...stop pretending to be all adult now...

Ange:
...
This game...you did...
In other words...

Battler:
Who would actually willingly choose to show the ugly side of their family to his younger sister?
If I made it seem as if the negative points about our family were just their image in society, I thought I could wipe away the image you had in your mind...

Ange:
Yeah
(thought) So that was why it was all so cut down...

p.8
Battler:
I wasn't trying to hide the truth while plastering everything with illusions.
Even though there wasn't any Halloween party that day...

Ange:
....yeah
(thought) What he prepared for me...

Battler:
...If everyone hadn't been tied down by such heavy shackles, we could have all smiled like that.

Ange:
(thought)...was a game close to a heaven called Golden Land.

Battler:
All that is part of their true forms as well.

p.9
Ange:
Yes.
I was able to remember as well.
It was a gloomy and scary family, but there were also days you all made me smile and when we all smiled together...
And you were neither pure villains nor pure saints, but my family with a lot of thoughts and problems of your own.

p.10-11
Ange:
It' not like I have completely forgiven Beato yet, but I feel with her.
She was a victim as well.
And in a certain way, so was grandfather.
He got his life screwed up by the elders and can be called a victim of that...
You all lived with this twilight in your hearts...
And if the result of the chain of misfortune in this family was that fateful October 4th and 5th, then I want to understand all of them as one of them.
That is my first step in order not to continue down this chain of misfortune.
I finally feel like facing you all, not as culprits or victims of a crime, but as my family.

p.12
Ange:
Thank you, Oniichan.

p.13
Battler:
...we are all already dead.

Ange:
Yes

Battler:
You learned all that when you took a look at the One Truth.
That means that the source of your life during the last 12 years, that by some possibility there might be hope for somebody to live, has all been cleanely wiped out.

Ange:
.......
......yes

p.14
Battler:
I'm sorry for not being able to come home.

Ange:
.....
.....yes

Battler:
When I arrived at the truth of Beato's game, and when I understood the construction of the catbox that enveloped all of us,

p.15
Battler:
I knew that I couldn't go back home and live by your side.

Ange:
..........
......
yes

Battler:
But I also understood that telling you that would mean robbing all hope from you, so I just couldn't bring myself to tell you.

Ange:
yes....
....yes....

p.16-17
Battler:
I don't exist in the future.
But I will always be behind you, protecting you.
Because, I wish for your happiness together with all the others!

Ange:
...........
......yes...!

p.18
Battler:
....
What will you do now?

Ange:
To tell the truth, I have no idea yet.
I know I have to live, now that I have heard everybody's thoughts, but there's just not anything I want to do with my life.
I lived just for getting towards the One Truth, and now that I know it, I have no goal.

Battler:
Then how about putting a big titty pudding in front of my grave, for starters?

Ange:
WHAT?! Do you honestly wanna make a young girl buy something like that?!
Just go back to making fun of my hair!!

Battler:
Well, sometimes it's also quite soothing to just live while searching for something you want to do.

p.19
Ange:
....yes
But...
what I don't want to do is just keep lamenting that it "would have been better not to know" the truth I learned.
Another thing...
what happened to the Book of One Truth?!
I handed that key over to Bernkastel...

p.20
Lambda:
Well, according to the programme schedule the last convention on the Rokkenjima mystery for guests and goats should be happening right now.
Since they wanted to present your illusions before opening the catbox, we should be heading for the climax already, no?!
If it's over, the long-awaited opening time of the Book of the One Truth has finally come!

Ange:
Lambdadelta!

Battler:
Both the key and the book is in Bernkastel's hands...
Which means...
It wouldn't be surprising if the Book of the One Truth is opened at any moment now?!

p.21
Ange:
I was fixed on aunt Eva being the culprit, that's why I wanted to make it public, so that I could have my revenge on her by revealing her sins...
But now that I know the truth, there is no real reason to make it public
Even if it was made public...there is probably nobody who would gain something from it...
I have to go...
Bernkastel forgot to take this back when she threw me away.
With this bell you can freely pass through the barrier around the Capital of Books, so I can go there again and...

Lambda:
Oh, so you've got a Temporary Entry Permission instead of an invitation.
With that at least one person can enter now.
Well, in case somebody sends you through the ocean of Fragments that is.

p.22
Battler:
I'll go!
I will go and stop the Book of the One Truth from being made public!!
Please send me there, Lambdadelta!

p.23
Ange:
Oniichan...!

Lambda:
I don't care which one of you, but are you really sure?
Right now you are just a ghost, being given a momentary allowance to exist within Beato's catbox, and the spirit body of a human, who's a half-baked witch that lost Bern's protection.
The Capital of Books is a pandemonium, a hotbed of monsters among monsters.
For them you are bugs smaller than a fly! They'll just smack you into a gooey mess and that's it for you!

Battler:
...you're right.
But what do we get from waiting here?
If the One Truth is made public and the catbox is opened, it will end up like that anyway, or not?!

p.24
Battler:
No, even worse than just us, it's about Ange having a future.

If the One Truth is made public, people will inquire about Ange with even more inquisitiveness than ever before!
If her sorroundings turn to that, then even if she finally decided to live, she might end up making a heel-turn back here in the near future!
I will protect that future in which Ange strives to live!
That is my final duty as a big brother!

p.25
Ange:
.....
...no!
I will go!
I will not put this burden on you any longer!
I will take responsibility for the seeds I have sown!

Battler:
Let go, Ange!
Let me at least have one final moment to be cool!

Ange:
No!
This is my duty! I was the one who gave the key and the diary to Bernkastel!
This is where I draw the line!

p.26
Lambda (thoughts):
Which one would I have to take along to get the most entertaining development?
The Golden Land is already besieged by the naval fleet and there's no way to run.
It's a one-sided game in which Bern can destroy everything whenever she pleases.
If everyone's just waiting to be destroyed, it might be fun to make a hit-or-miss bet and attempt to take back the Book of the One Truth.
Anyhow, whomever I take there should be a chance for me to sneak out, but it's not like I wouldn't make enemies with that!
The most interesting ones are clearly Battler and Ange, it's just about who would weave the more dramatic story now.
But the constant ring-ring is getting on my nerves! Can't these two just get along?
I can't even think straight like this!
....gng

p.27
Lambda:
Stop you two! STOP!

Ange:
WHAT?! WE ARE HAVING A BROTHER-SISTER TALK HERE!

Lambda:
Just stop and let go off each other!!
Battler has the bell right now, right?
Battler, try jumping!

Battler:
Jumping?
?

*RING*

Lambda:
Now Ange!
Try jumping!

Ange:
?
Why me too...

p.28-29

*RING RING*

Ange:
....
....eh?
Why...? I received only one...

Lambda:
I wouldn't know why!
But anyway, you have two Entry Permissions now!
If there's two of them, you have no reason to fight!
The game this time around has always been for the sake of you two!
So just go already and bring an end to it together!

Battler:
Lambdadelta...!

Ange:
So...

p.30
Lambda:
Alright already?! I will only take you along to the capital of Books, alright?!
I will only watch from the sidelines how you guys fight and beat Bern black and blue!

Ange:
Okay!!

Battler:
Thank you, Lambdadelta!

Beato:
You're going, Ange?

Ange:
Everyone...

p.31
Beato:
Don't forget, whatver kind of ending you decide to weave, we are always at your side!

Ange (thought):
I won't let this game, created from the truth of everybodies hearts...

p.32
Ange (thought):
...ever be denied!!

p.33
Shannon:
A rowing boat?
Please stop right there!
I forbid you to come any closer.

p.34
Erika:
I come to deliver an ultimatum.

p.35
Kanon:
What is this about an ultimatum?!

Erika:
You must have a room for negotiations.
I wish to be taken there.

Kanon (thought):
Whatever the conditions she brings are, they won't be satisfactory

Shannon (thought):
...but it would be too hasty to turn her away at the gates

p.38
Beato:
I am the ruler of the Golden Land, the Endless and Golden Witch, Beatrice.
State your name!

Erika:
I have been sent as an ambassador of the noble Capital of Books, selected by her holiness the Witch of Theatergoing, Plays and Spectatorship.
A Witch of Truth, acting as Supreme Naval Commander to the Librarians bringing honor and safeguard to the Capital.
My name is Furudo Erika.

Beato:
State your business!

p.39
Erika:
Rejoice, for we have visited upon you bearing good news of high honor.
The gameboard created by the Golden Witch Beatrice has been chosen by the Capital to become an authorized addition, selected as worthy to the honor of the Capital of Books.

Beato:
I see

Erika:
This gameboard is exceedingly creative and has high research value and must thus be made public to all subjects.
Thus, we, the Capital, also swear to provide eternal honor and protection for this gameboard.

Beato:
This is just tedious and long!
Just go on and state the actual intent!

p.40
Erika:
The capitulation of the GM and all Pieces.
Furthermore we demand the transfer of everything connected to this gameboard to be transferred to the Capital of Books.
We assure you that the proper state of the game will be protected.
No Fragment that conflicts with your Red Truth can be created.

p.41
Beato:
If you can't or whatever, aren't you just now on the verge of revealing the One Truth?
There won't be any more new games once the truth is decided.

Erika:
What is being decided is just the truth.
But my master suggested that it would be a waste to let this gameboard vanish into obscurity, while many of Lady Beatrice's riddles remain unsolved.
This gameboard has to remain, even when the facts are decided.
This is the honorable protection we will provide.
And it is also for our subjects to equally and correctly enjoy this game.
For that a guideline has to be put forward.
Thus, in the event of a capitulation

p.42
Erika:
We will provide an honorable death for the gamemaster, Lady Beatrice.
And along with the gameboard, the rulebook written with her blood and guts will be eternally displayed in the Capital of Books.
Be at rest, when the ownership of the game is transferred to the Capital of Books, your game will not vanish even in the event of your death.
Many subjects will continue to weave your game for all eternity.
That was your wish, wasn't it?!

p.43
Beato:
So you are saying that, just like when I was repeating my games on end, the Pieces will be continuously tormented on.
What if I say no?

Erika:
What would you do with a game where you don't understand the rules?
A card game with rules you don't understand?
A board game with rules you don't understand?

Beato:
.......
Just make up rules of your own and play, right?!

Erika:
Exactly.
If you do not intend to surrender, you will be charged with the crime of monopolizing an important cultural asset, which all subjects should have joint access to, for your personal gains

p.44-45
Erika:
and will all be executed!
We will then take your corpses and the gameboard back with us and allow our subjects the right to participate in a game without any restrictions.
We will promise you an endless hell in an ever-looping October 4th and 5th, turned into a lawless zone!

First of all: THANK YOU A LOT FOR THE TRANSLATION!
Since I couldn't find spoilers for Ep 7 & 8 I was thinking they just skipped this month of Umineko on the magazines...

Also yes, again the manga did a better job.
Eva admitted she didn't do it merely because she's a pure soul but also for her self preservation which makes her less victim and more... well, Eva.

I like how Beato reproached Battler for making such a messy game (I've noticed the irony of the whole 'ehy Beato you made your game too confusing so that's bad... but who cares less make mine even more confusing') even if honestly, in the manga Battler seemed to be a lot more pushy than willing to accept that Ange could give a peek at the diary. Or better... he seems to know he has no right to stop her but he'll try his hardest to find a way to stop her just the same. In a way it's an interesting battle between the mind (which knows Ange has a right to do it) and the heart (who knows Ange will be hurt if she does it and refuses to let her be hurt).
And this ties nicely with the reproach Erika made. Tohya refused to meet Ange and tried to send her messages in obscure ways so he only has himself to blame for failing to deliver his point.
But in a way it's sad. If Sayo's dead she never had the chance to deliver a message to Ange or try to, nor to think there was a message she needed to deliver to her.

In a way though Battler's idea fit him. Through all Umineko he tried to pick up the nicest explanation for other people's actions. It comes pretty natural that he would want Ange to get a chance to see things from his point of view, to see how everyone was actually a nice person who somehow ended up acting the wrong way due to circumstances.

Battler knows his family is not all sunshines and rainbows but he decides to try and see what's good in them. The ugly parts are yes, part of them, but not the whole, nor what's really important to them.

Ange had a much more black and white vision probably due to her being younger. Eva had to be purely evil, her immediate family had to be purely good but she was afraid they could be purely evil as well and the press pushed in this direction.

Battler tried to push toward the opposite extreme, as if this would balance things when instead normally this only confuses someone more as he's presented with two completely discording visions. Probably a fictional yer greyer portrayal of his family would have worked better.

I like Ange's reasoning and her wish to understand so as not to continue the chain of misfortune even if those words still reveals a maturity that's just... not Ange... unless the visual helps to deliver them in a more Ange-like way?

In a way I'd like to give a better look at that one truth. Ep 7 never explained what happened to Battler and Eva must not have found his body nor known if he decided to support Rudolf and Kyrie. Did she thought he was killed? Did she thought he was Rudolf and Kyrie's accomplice and escaped to her wrath? Did she abandon him to die or did she try to kill him too? And was Eva the one with whom Battler was escaping?

According to which you chose Eva's actions toward him take a quite different light.

In a way it would fit if Eva was the one trying to escape with Battler then he doubted her and she tried to kill him as it would be close to what happened in Ep 3 in a way.

I also like how the revelation for Battler's body surviving and Battler becoming Tohya is set up. If we mirror Battler's talk with what happened in Prime when faced with the tales Tohya figured his true identity is Battler but that he isn't Battler anymore so he doesn't want to be Ange's brother but at the same time he thinks it's cruel to tell her so. However he doesn't wish her harm and still tried to deliver a message to her.

It's also interesting how Ange admits she ended up with 'no goal' which is similar to how Battler was in Umineko. He claimed more than once he lived his life aimlessly.

Oh and Lambda is the best as usual.

It's a pity Umineko didn't have more extra stories. I think Lambda would have deserved more space.

Quote:

Originally Posted by haguruma

Well, the manga is kind of putting up Ikuko more as an unsuspecting outsider who ends up unwillingly becoming the villain to the story (aside from the fantasy-plot)...I do wonder how that will all turn around.
Ch26 now pretty much already set up the "I'm not Battler anymore and knowing all this I can impossibly face that girl" plot for the final Tohya reveal. Also, Lambda saying that Ange is a spirit body kind of leads me to the idea again that ALL of the Episodes are more or less fiction (as, the stories seen through the eyes of Battler and Ange) and that really only the Tea Parties or ??? elements take us a little outside of it. Not that the events of Ange's life in EP4 wouldn't be true, but they would be as much of a could-have-been scenario as the island-plots (both just minus the fantasy sparkles).

Honestly I'm curious about Ikuko. I wonder if her problem was that she was porly planned (or that Ryukishi changed his mind about her along the way) sos he came out as weirder than she needed to be and therefore more suspicious. Well, we'll see. Again thank you a lot for the translation!

But in a way it's sad. If Sayo's dead she never had the chance to deliver a message to Ange or try to, nor to think there was a message she needed to deliver to her.

While it is true that the current state of things makes Sayo's fate a very miserable one, I'd prefer her to be actually dead in terms of dramatic story purposes.

Quote:

I like Ange's reasoning and her wish to understand so as not to continue the chain of misfortune even if those words still reveals a maturity that's just... not Ange... unless the visual helps to deliver them in a more Ange-like way?

Well, I think it's not unlike Ange. EP4 has already shown that she is not stupid and not necessarily immature, she is just very head-strong and stubborn, just like her brother. The few moments of rational thinking she has in EP4 and 6 (and from now in EP8), actually show that she has become quite mature and it was just her not knowing and especially not being told anything, being handled like a child, that kept her back.

Quote:

In a way I'd like to give a better look at that one truth. Ep 7 never explained

Well, the new EP7 chapter this month (sorry, didn't have the spare change to buy that one, only read it in the store) goes up to the Tea Party when the letter is being read out by Maria, so next month should be the massacre by Kyrie and Rudolph. I will definitely go and buy that one.
Btw. I found it interesting again how it is Eva's last words to Ange from EP3 that open the play here...makes an interesting hint towards where to place it on the "Ange-timeline".

Quote:

Honestly I'm curious about Ikuko. I wonder if her problem was that she was porly planned (or that Ryukishi changed his mind about her along the way) sos he came out as weirder than she needed to be and therefore more suspicious. Well, we'll see. Again thank you a lot for the translation!

I think she was just poorly inserted into the plot, since EP6 gave practically no hint at all that she might be somebody else than Hachijô Tôya, so the whole Ikuko thing came very much out of left field...and much of the Featherine character leaves Ikuko with very few actual motivation beside the one we get in the Interlude (both VN and manga), that she is simply just WEIRD.

I wouldn't mind her to turn out to be actually kind of a bad person in the way that she didn't care much for the pain she caused Tohya and Ange...or that she did it unknowingly...but I'd also just like to know a little bit more about what her motivations were.
The explanation that she really is God-mode Featherine inserting herself into the world of men would be similarly disappointing as Hanyû suddenly being there in Higurashi's Matsuribayashi...something that irks me till this day.

While it is true that the current state of things makes Sayo's fate a very miserable one, I'd prefer her to be actually dead in terms of dramatic story purposes.

LOL, I see you're a fan of tragic stories, aren't you?
Well, shame on me but I like tragic stories as well. It's just Ryukishi went so overboard with Sayo it's not even funny anymore.
I understand the moral might also be, 'okay, your life was horrible but since you gave up you don't deserve someone to save you and give you a happy ending of some sort' but really, how much an human can take before giving up? Her life is a giant pile of misfortune and while yes, giving up won't make it any better, which insurance there was it could go any better?
She seems unluckier than Donald Duck, one starts to wonder about how if she had left the island and tried to live happily probably the ship would have sinked, if she had remained there chances are a volcano would have eroupted blasting her away.

Quote:

Originally Posted by haguruma

Well, I think it's not unlike Ange. EP4 has already shown that she is not stupid and not necessarily immature, she is just very head-strong and stubborn, just like her brother. The few moments of rational thinking she has in EP4 and 6 (and from now in EP8), actually show that she has become quite mature and it was just her not knowing and especially not being told anything, being handled like a child, that kept her back.

Yes, I know Ange can have her moments but... well, I guess the VN version of Ep 8 left an huge impression on me about Ange's maturity or lack thereof.

Quote:

Originally Posted by haguruma

Well, the new EP7 chapter this month (sorry, didn't have the spare change to buy that one, only read it in the store) goes up to the Tea Party when the letter is being read out by Maria, so next month should be the massacre by Kyrie and Rudolph. I will definitely go and buy that one.
Btw. I found it interesting again how it is Eva's last words to Ange from EP3 that open the play here...makes an interesting hint towards where to place it on the "Ange-timeline".

It's okay, don't worry. I just hope Ep 7 will make that part a little more interesting... expecially because the VN part was confusing and because so far Ep 7 hadn't added much to the story apart a little more clarification over Will's solution. (I wanted a hint about Battler sending the letter or not... but I guess by the lack of hints either Ryukishi really doesn't want to answer to this one or Battler really didn't send a letter and the solution is in Ryukishi's words 'he was told to write the cousins so he wrote to the cousins'. And Ange, why I've no idea.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by haguruma

I think she was just poorly inserted into the plot, since EP6 gave practically no hint at all that she might be somebody else than Hachijô Tôya, so the whole Ikuko thing came very much out of left field...and much of the Featherine character leaves Ikuko with very few actual motivation beside the one we get in the Interlude (both VN and manga), that she is simply just WEIRD.

I wouldn't mind her to turn out to be actually kind of a bad person in the way that she didn't care much for the pain she caused Tohya and Ange...or that she did it unknowingly...but I'd also just like to know a little bit more about what her motivations were.
The explanation that she really is God-mode Featherine inserting herself into the world of men would be similarly disappointing as Hanyû suddenly being there in Higurashi's Matsuribayashi...something that irks me till this day.

Well, it would be interesting if Ikuko were a stand in for Erika and her crazy marriage thing but ultimately it doesn't seem Ikuko ever meant harm to Tohya (unless the manga will change things radically) unless Erika's marriage is a roundabout way to say Ikuko knew who he was but kept it hidden from him because she wanted company basically trapping him with herself?

I also wouldn't want Ikuko to be a new Hanyu in human world.

Just wondering since you've access to much more original material than us, do you think Ryukishi planned to give all the answers he's giving (well, more or less) or that his original plans when the other media started working with Umineko were to release exactly the same amount of info as in the VN and then he changed his mind along the way?

It's okay, don't worry. I just hope Ep 7 will make that part a little more interesting... expecially because the VN part was confusing and because so far Ep 7 hadn't added much to the story apart a little more clarification over Will's solution. (I wanted a hint about Battler sending the letter or not... but I guess by the lack of hints either Ryukishi really doesn't want to answer to this one or Battler really didn't send a letter and the solution is in Ryukishi's words 'he was told to write the cousins so he wrote to the cousins'. And Ange, why I've no idea.)

What I'd like to know the most, is if EP7 manga version adds something about Battler's mysterious disappearance in the TP. Also if it shows Beatrice as a corpse in the background when Eva wakes up, or not.

What I'd like to know the most, is if EP7 manga version adds something about Battler's mysterious disappearance in the TP. Also if it shows Beatrice as a corpse in the background when Eva wakes up, or not.

Oh, yes, whose are really info I'm looking forward at, although I don't think there are much chances to learn more about Battler. I guess his fate has to stay a mystery till Ep 8 but at least Beatrice...

In the absence of the music thread, I think this is the best one to post this in. I hereby present my best effort at the terrifying witch's challenge that is the lyrics of Happy Maria. I've spent far, far too long listening to the two versions of this thing and trying to make sense of it. Madness lies this way.

The official lyrics undoubtedly exist somewhere but can't be found, except for some small fragments on some promotional images for one CD. Those lyric fragments are as follow:

Looking at them, it's no real surprise that the lyrics are hard to guess! What's a garpy or a garpy show? It's all lost in the darkness of the witch. Sorry, the darkness of the "wich". The only piece that I can't yet fit into the lyrics is the "...ann' law...". It must be in there somewhere, but I just can't find where it goes.

I'm going to do this in coloured text style, because for the life of me I'm still not sure about much of it. I might need to do some corrections later too.

Colour key

Black text = I'm not really sure, but here's a guess anyway.Blue text = I think this is a reasonable guess.Red text = I believe this is probably the right line.Gold text = This is from the fragments of the official lyrics (albeit with corrected spellings for "brekaer", "brock' en, and "wich").

Happy Maria

My witch is golden dreamerOn practical gold a wingBurstingon the creatureWithbloody old September

I'll make an attempt too. There are some parts that are clearly different. Also I think I found the "ann' law" passage you mentioned. I am not sure about "chef" though. I am not sure if it could be "ship" after all... also if "sorcer" is supposed to refer to "sorcery" in general, though I think "saucer" (ALIENS!) would be plausible too in a way...

My witch is golden dreamer
On practical golden wing
Blossom on the creature
With bloody old September