Gryphon is also one of my favourite bands. You should check up on The Strawbs and Lindisfarne who are good folk bands but not in the same vein as Gryphon. Gryphon is a very unique band and there's not too many bands around who are similar. Anthony Phillips and Renaissance, which have been suggested above are good suggestions as well.

(my guess is that you're thinking of their first three albums, rather than the next two Yes-sounding Lps)

Although they doin't use crumhorns, in terms of compositions (Gryphon is very medieval-ish, not just melodically, but rhythmically as well), then Gentle Giant might just be the closest cousin to Gryphon.

I can't think of any at the moment ... but hopefully there are some bands that do this kind of work within a classical context that might be much more interesting than just a commercial song/rock context, which in the end, Gryphon is NOT.

Renaissance is much more about Annie's voice than it was about anything else. It was also about singing poetry written by a couple of rather well known writers, which Annie appreciated.

Focus is very "progressive" but Thijs Van Leer solo albums are almost all classical, and done really well. His first two solo albums (Introspection) are almost all classical music with the flute ... and what a treat they are! As for progressive? ... well ... let's say that the attitude of attempting to use the flute as a solo instrument is very progressive and not usually done in classical music ... flute has "moments" in classical music, but not solos per se, like the violin or piano. In this case, you call it ... this is a symphony for the flute ... and it is magnificent.

I keep thinking that there should be others in Italy, the hotbed for classical music in Europe, and a lot of bands mixed the classical element into their music ... I find PFM in the early days very classically oriented, and as they became more rock oriented, after "The World Became the World" they lost the appeal for me (the live album is the exception).

Banco is very classically minded, at least in the composing side of things, but it is distinctly rock oriented but the orchestration and definition of the music is very classical. I thought that things like Royal Academy de Musica and others were similar in the same style ... sort of using the electric guitar instead of the violin!

Richard Harvey also has some solo albums that I believe are mostly classical music ... don't quote me on that.

One last detail. Midnight Mushrumps was written for a National Theater production ... and performed with them as well, I understand. So, in some ways, there is more to this music than meets the eye.

There are not, however, a whole lot of these "medieval electric bands" per se ... there is one here in Portland, but it won't use keyboards (I asked) because they say it's not "traditional" (how F_______ boring!) ... and when I played them a touch of Gryphon on a mp3, one of the ladies said ... that's really good but we would never do that!

Originality is a talent and a vision ... not an idea! A talent and vision creates new work. Ideas? ... more of the same!

The other side is to listen to things like The Third Ear Band ... that is not something that almost anyone here can really give an ear to ... and enjoy ... and of course, it's music gets used in a film that is "pre-renaissance" with Roman Polanski's Macbeth ... and the music comes of as raw, as if it were the street folks playing it at the time, and not some polished commercially designed music ... and it's use in the film is very effective and adds moments that are down right ... weird and scary and leave you ... kinda ... stunned ... wondering what you are thinking ... which, of course, is not something a Harry Potter fan will ever enjoy or appreciate in film! But to my ear, that is very likely what most of the music was like in those days anyway ... except in the fat and rich courts where "musicians" thought themselves "disciplined" and better than the street folk out there!

Edited by moshkito - March 23 2012 at 12:59

... none of the hits, none of the time ... you will, eventually, find your own art inside! Try it! www.pedrosena.com

None of these, however, sound anything like Gryphon, btw ... not even close.

I wanted to mention Malicorne ... as it is definitly folk. Heck for that matter one could even mention Alan Stivell in that list ... but he's very tough and because he mixes everything and anything, most of us can not sit and enjoy or appreciate the hybrid mixes ... fine ... go back to Ennya!

Amazing Blondel ... ok ... though I did not feel that it was really that great, but listening to it today ... it has a very different feel.

There were some in Germany. Tanned Leather and Cherubin were related to several bands. And the stuff is very westernized, but you get the feeling that it is out there ... because it doesn't sound ... like the folk stuff you are used to. The Cherubin album is specially good and has some nice things (the choo choo train song is magnificent). I do not know the rest of the scene in Germany. But none of this will get anywhere close to the feel/style that you are wanting to look at.

But this is strange, because music history knows and states that there is a massive history of music in Greece, Italy, the northern countries (Sweded and Norway or Finland) and we definitly know that Russia also has music history and we don't know any of it, at all.

(Removed Help Yourself and Neutrons - they do not belong in this discussion. Sorry about that)

Edited by moshkito - April 03 2012 at 15:24

... none of the hits, none of the time ... you will, eventually, find your own art inside! Try it! www.pedrosena.com

^ I agree with Pedro - None of these sound anything like Gryphon... no band sounded like Gryphon.

The uniqueness of Gryphon is not just their use of early "folk" instruments such as the serpent and krumhorn, but (as half the band were graduates of the Royal College of Music), also their use of traditional Medieval music forms, particularly English Medieval folk music. Other bands simply produce music that sounds like it should be Medieval (like you would hear on a soundtrack to a Hollywood knights-and-chivalry type film) which I believe sounds closer to Elizabethan music (the English form of Renaissance music) than Medieval. While it is possible to trace-back Gryphon to folk-rock and baroque pop bands of the 1960s, what they did was a little more 'authentic' in the Medieval music forms they used in their compositions than the pastiche of Bach and Beethoven used by those other bands.

So, when it comes to choosing bands that have a medieval and folk/symphonic style of Gryphon it really depends on what aspects of that sound you are looking for, since none encapsulate all of them.

Malicorne comes close but their music is based upon later music (baroque and renaissance era), Amazing Blondel are more folk, less rocking and though they take their name from the famed medieval French troubadour of Richard Coeur-de-lion they were also routed in renaissance music rather than medieval. In both Malicorne and Amazing Blondel you will hear the Krumhorn however. Renaissance (the band) has been mentioned - there were two incarnations of Renaissance - the first was an off-shoot of the Yardbirds and did attempt to fuse renaissance and baroque era music with rock, they didn't really touch on traditional folk very much, the later version that rose from the ashes of the first was essentially members of The Nashville Teens with Annie Haslam - they incorporated folk influences into their music, but again the classical influence was of a much later era than the Medieval of Gryphon. (I don't know Help Yourself - from what I've just heard on YouTube I'd say they were country-rock, certainly american acid-psyche flavoured, but perhaps I simply haven't heard the right tracks). The Third Ear Band are a good contender though they are more a chamber rock band often employing eastern sounding forms (ragas) in their music. Hugues's suggestion of Gentle Giant is one that is made often, they are more varied on instrumentation and their classical influences are also more varied, so while they do reference Medieval music and folk, they also cover many other classical music eras and a multitude of other musical styles which does tend to distance them from Gryphon by quite a wide margin.

Of the modern bands, Secret Green can be recommended, they do use Medieval forms and early English folk in their music, though the a lute is the only early instruments used, so flute and recorder replace the unmistakable sounds of krumhorn or serpent, the symphonic element to their music is not classical as such, but when used with the Medieval sounds it is quite effective.

^ I agree with Pedro - None of these sound anything like Gryphon... no band sounded like Gryphon.

The uniqueness of Gryphon is not just their use of early "folk" instruments such as the serpent and krumhorn, but (as half the band were graduates of the Royal College of Music), also their use of traditional Medieval music forms, particularly English Medieval folk music. Other bands simply produce music that sounds like it should be Medieval (like you would hear on a soundtrack to a Hollywood knights-and-chivalry type film) which I believe sounds closer to Elizabethan music (the English form of Renaissance music) than Medieval. While it is possible to trace-back Gryphon to folk-rock and baroque pop bands of the 1960s, what they did was a little more 'authentic' in the Medieval music forms they used in their compositions than the pastiche of Bach and Beethoven used by those other bands.

...

Magnificent ... absolutely magnificently said and written.

I always thought that Gryphon did with the electricity in their music, that could not be done 100 years ago, which could ... alter the equation a weeee bit, but not enough to change what you said. I'm not sure, however, that we all can project that image and see it.

The hard part, of considering the band progressive, is that it takes away from the unbelievable study and definition of the music and work that these folks put together. Let's just say that these folks are/were the top echeleon in their music department to do something like this ... which you and I can "relate to" but might not be appreciated in a more academic and traditional environment.

But I'm sure that the Royal College of Music would have been thrilled to do something with the National Theatre and as such ... this might get a lot more attention and scrutiny than otherwise ... but none of us will ever argue the incredible results!

... none of the hits, none of the time ... you will, eventually, find your own art inside! Try it! www.pedrosena.com

Although they doin't use crumhorns, in terms of compositions (Gryphon is very medieval-ish, not just melodically, but rhythmically as well), then Gentle Giant might just be the closest cousin to Gryphon.

I still think that Alan Stivell would be a much more interesting -- similar thing -- though not necessarily that same kind of music, but the only difference is that it is a different country and place.

Like Gryphon, Alan also mixes a lot of different instruments, the problem being that he mixes these with rock, jazz, folk, accoustic, orchestra, and everything in between ... and the mixes with rock music are magnificent, if you are not adverse to hearing things like "Pop-Plynn" ... an obvious rock anthem to bring that Celtc group up to modern times, that I am not sure we understand or can relate to very well, but it is almost in the vein of the Jimi thing and the McPhee thing. Somehow, however, we have this idea that "celtic" has to be Ennya, and Celtic also stretches to Brittany in France ... the area that was almost all wiped out in its entirety in French history.

These mixes are good for a rock person that has no issues with mixes in music. They are very tough for people that are looking for an idealistic progressive or prog music, and things like "Celtic Symphony" are very tough when you hear the guitar screaming over the orchestra on side one and two ... and it makes you wonder ... but I see a fighter screaming and running to get his freedom, if you allow me the idea and thought of the whole thing.

His accoustic stuff is only tough in that he is not a singer in the conventional styles that we like and are used to, specially in popular music. His voice is different, lower and he mixes the English, French and Kelt languages freely, and I can not tell you where one starts and ends.

For rock oriented audiences, the CD "Again" is a bunch of "best of" almost all of them done rock style, and I kinda look at this as it was put together for an American audience, that unffortunately, can not appreciate this at all!

But do beware the fact that unlike Ennya and the other new-age'y plasticene cardboard mysticism, this is real and this guy is not afraid to pull punches and lay it on think on the carnivorous French -- as you can see in "Before Landing" which is a history of these Kelts in France.

... none of the hits, none of the time ... you will, eventually, find your own art inside! Try it! www.pedrosena.com

(my guess is that you're thinking of their first three albums, rather than the next two Yes-sounding Lps)

Although they doin't use crumhorns, in terms of compositions (Gryphon is very medieval-ish, not just melodically, but rhythmically as well), then Gentle Giant might just be the closest cousin to Gryphon.

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