I rarely empty my drip tray. Those flushes go to warm my cup and my shot glass. Then go to the sink. It sounds hard but is really easy in practice. The water dance is much easier to judge than blonding.

And the Muscia has restricters that help keep the group head at an even temp. Your cooling flushes will be easier than mine will until I add that to my Oscar. Watch Youtube to see what the pulls look like, it is really not hard at all.

And the Muscia has restricters that help keep the group head at an even temp. Your cooling flushes will be easier than mine will until I add that to my Oscar. Watch Youtube to see what the pulls look like, it is really not hard at all.

This is quite relieving. I believe that after the "cool flushing" naturally integrates into the process, it will be only a matter of getting the water reservoir refilled more often. Think I can live with that.

acasabia Said:

Other options you should considerThe Expobar Brewtus iv, I bought this machine after looking at all of the machines you listed and I am about to, I think it has the most bang for its cost, dual boiler, e61, PID, availible rotary pump. Definitely well suited for 10-15 shots a day, and I like the semi-manual operation. I paired it with a quamar m80e grinder, the 4pack steam tips from rocket, and bottomless PF (rocket) that just really make the machine great. It is much cheaper than the other options here, and with 2 1.7L copper boilers, this macine is a beast.

The Alexia Duetto II/III, a great dual boiler, looks amazing, has a pretty big following. version 3 has just come out, give it a look over at clive. I didnt buy this purely on price and its PF sits lower preventing certain cups from easily being placed under it (an insane thing to worry about).

Have checked these two, and like Rocket, they do not have local support where I live. To be sure, i contacted CREM for the Expobar, but I'm yet to get their response.

This leads me to the important questions, are those double boiler machines (especially R58 and Alex Duetto) too complex to be serviced/checked/fixed by a competent electrician who have done so for commercial-grade espresso machines? I am told about few workshops who claim to have this expertise.

I thank everyone for the very helpful and enlightening responses. Please keep them coming :)

Wish I could remember more detail, but I've read more than one post here and over on HB where R58's were not surviving shipping because of the packaging. Others were not happy with some issues I think due to early adoption, and returned the machine. Also some find the removable PID annoying to deal with.

I heard similar things about packaging, but I think by now Rocket Espresso has dealt with the problem.

RocketEspresso Said:

Hi Coffeegeek members

It is not often that I comment on the forum but felt I should clarify the points regarding build quality of our machines.The R 58 has been subjected to damage due to a lack of care by freight forwarders, nothing more. Unfortunately when you ship 35KG in a cardboard box and then drop it, damage will occur.When the machine is dropped the join between the chassis and the drip tray support is damaged. This join is not a structural part of the machine so does not have the strength to withstand the fall.We now ship all our machines with new and uprated packaging and additionally we have beefed up the chassis drip tray weld to over come such problems.I dispute that the R 58 is subject to poor build quality as it is produced in our factory by our same small team of dedicated workers who produce all of our machines. I am so confident in this claim that I extend an invitation to any of you who wish to view our production and see our commitment first hand.

As a company we listen to both our dealers and customers and react when those comments are valid. The case in point is that I have personally responded to many of your emails which I believe is unique for the Managing Director of an Italian espresso company.

The R58 is one of many very good espresso machines currently available, we worked hard on both the design and the stability of the machine to ensure superior results in the cup and have achieved this. The R 58 will not suit everybody but it is a product that we are extremely proud of.

Have checked these two, and like Rocket, they do not have local support where I live. To be sure, i contacted CREM for the Expobar, but I'm yet to get their response.

This leads me to the important questions, are those double boiler machines (especially R58 and Alex Duetto) too complex to be serviced/checked/fixed by a competent electrician who have done so for commercial-grade espresso machines? I am told about few workshops who claim to have this expertise.

I thank everyone for the very helpful and enlightening responses. Please keep them coming :)

With a double boiler machine you're going to have to be willing to get your hands dirty. It may be cleaning the group head or replacing a thermostat, these machines over time will need work. Think about it, its a big hot metal box filled with electrical components submerged in water. Luckily with machines like this the parts are easy to come by, as is the knowledge base on how to repair them. For the most part, the internal workings on most machines are the same -most even use the same GICAR PID system.

Also, with modern day shipping and processing sending the machine to a qualified repair shop (whole latte love, chris's, coffee, 1st-line for the NE-USA) shouldn't be too much of an issue.

Out of curiosity, what other machines have you owned? Have you used a semi-auto machine before? Do you need a dual boiler machine for your use? Cleaning and descaling dual boiler and HX machines is more involved than most consumer single boilers. 10-20 shots a day can easily be handled by a smaller machine with easier maintenance like the Ascaso steel duo. Or, have you looked into the Breville Dual Boiler? It has received glamorous reviews, and the company is investing a great deal into building a network of local service centers, though the machine is less user serviceable if you decide to bypass this.

Anthony - It's a very long way from Dubai, where the OP has stated he lives, to any of the dealers and repair sites you mention. Shipping back and forth would be a substantial fraction of the value of the machine.

I am actually residing in Kuwait. So yeah, having a 40+ lb machine shipped back and forth is not going to be effective.

acasabia Said:

Out of curiosity, what other machines have you owned? Have you used a semi-auto machine before? Do you need a dual boiler machine for your use? Cleaning and descaling dual boiler and HX machines is more involved than most consumer single boilers. 10-20 shots a day can easily be handled by a smaller machine with easier maintenance like the Ascaso steel duo. Or, have you looked into the Breville Dual Boiler? It has received glamorous reviews, and the company is investing a great deal into building a network of local service centers, though the machine is less user serviceable if you decide to bypass this.

I have been using a fully automatic bean-to-cup for the past 3 years, and it was quite alright. That machine delivered above average quality of espresso, while, milk steaming (being an automatic with no steam wand) was horrible.

Having decided to upgrade, I wanted a machine that is closer to commercial than it is to home/persona and hence my investigating the above machines.

How does the Le Spaziale Mini Vivaldi measure compared to the R58 and Musica? It looks to be a hybrid of both; DB, Auto Dosing, regulation of brew temp (no pre-infusion though). The interesting part is that they have a local dealership with technical support arm.

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