I sometimes have to wonder if people in those positions lose perspective or are genuinely frightened by the threats. I knew a libbiest lib that ever libbed lifetime liberal lib who got a job dealing with the threat of terrorism coming across our borders and became a rabid "OMG SEAL THE BORDERS!" person based not on they're stealing our jobs, not on the notion that law and morality were the same so, by definition, being an illegal alien made you a bad person, and not based on concerns over their not integrating. It was purely a reaction to terrorism.

So is it a result of their being too close to the problem, or is it because the threat is that grave? I suspect too close to the problem.

I gotta be honest and say I find these sort of abstract intrusions on civil rights pretty hard to care about. All this information is out there, I can't really say it gets me mad they are just compiling it.

unlikely:A bunch of us filed requests with the FBI to see what files they had on us. What came back was somewhere between surprising and "why do you waste your time with this?"

Anyone who thinks this article is something new doesn't remember the cold war or was ridiculously naive.

I used to do a lot of anti-Soviet protests in the '80s and worked on the Hill for a Baltic organization. When I applied for my clearance, my interim came back in two days. That's almost unheard of. I guarantee I had a dossier.

unlikely:A bunch of us filed requests with the FBI to see what files they had on us. What came back was somewhere between surprising and "why do you waste your time with this?"

Anyone who thinks this article is something new doesn't remember the cold war or was ridiculously naive.

This. We've always violated the constitution throughout our country's history. Yet we like to fetishize the constitution and our treatment of it. Instead, we should honestly look at what we've done in the past and try to live up to the constitution (or change what we don't like about it) rather than reflecting back on glory days that never existed.

Is this the bit about government agencies being able to share the information they have on you? Because I've pretty much always assumed that if one govt agency has something on you, any other one has it too.

Honestly, I am not worried, the last election proved that Republicans will never sit in the Oval Office again, so they will never have the opportunity to misuse their powers (can anybody say *cough*BUSH?*cough)

Sorry Repubs, we have a REAL leader in the presidency now who displays empathy and courage. One who would never misuse his power for personal gain or nefarious purposes. I trust him. And I trust that the use of these powers makes us all a bit safer now. And I sleep better at night knowing we have a competent administration looking into these matters and making the world that much a better place.

ChuDogg:Honestly, I am not worried, the last election proved that Republicans will never sit in the Oval Office again, so they will never have the opportunity to misuse their powers (can anybody say *cough*BUSH?*cough)

Sorry Repubs, we have a REAL leader in the presidency now who displays empathy and courage. One who would never misuse his power for personal gain or nefarious purposes. I trust him. And I trust that the use of these powers makes us all a bit safer now. And I sleep better at night knowing we have a competent administration looking into these matters and making the world that much a better place.

It's like every American citizen is on double-secret probation. The government did this without the knowledge of Congress but now that Congress knows about it Congress does nothing. Congress probably prefers this be in done in secret so Congress has deniability. Add this to the fact that the government can claim "national security" and prevent an accused criminal of obtaining the necessary proof of innocence.

Attorney General secretly granted government ability to develop and store dossiers on innocent Americans

OH SHI-

Earlier this year, Attorney General Eric Holder granted the center the ability to copy entire government databases holding information on flight records, casino-employee lists, the names of Americans hosting foreign-exchange students and other data, and to store it for up to five years

It would be better if it had more of a defined overarching philosophy where laws could be hierarchically formed around the philosophy. It could be a more fluid document that evolves naturally, even scientifically.

ChuDogg:Honestly, I am not worried, the last election proved that Republicans will never sit in the Oval Office again, so they will never have the opportunity to misuse their powers (can anybody say *cough*BUSH?*cough)

Sorry Repubs, we have a REAL leader in the presidency now who displays empathy and courage. One who would never misuse his power for personal gain or nefarious purposes. I trust him. And I trust that the use of these powers makes us all a bit safer now. And I sleep better at night knowing we have a competent administration looking into these matters and making the world that much a better place.

You Stasi supporter.

Yea, no Democrat has ever abused his power.

Lee Jackson Beauregard:Now you righttards and wingnuts who hate B. Hussein Osama's guts, answer me this: If you want B. Hussein Osama gone so badly, why don't you go after him on the surveillance state? On the War on Terra?

We have been. Obama allowed a drone strike on an American citizen. That's something even Bush didn't have the gumption to do. Nobody who supported Barack Obama cares though. The bulk of the concern over civil rights under Bush was simply just concern trolling.

See, THIS is why you don't get all up in arms about every decision you don't like. If you do, then you blow your wad and all your credibility on stupid shiat and have none left when something real comes up.

Fast and Furious = NOT a scandal, and NOT a big dealBenghazi = NOT a scandal, and NOT a big deal0bummer ISN'T going to take your guns

But this...this is truly disturbing. And it sure would be nice if the public could ask for a much deeper investigation without all of your derp contaminating it. So please, I'm begging you...stop. You're just like Michael Moore: you're not helping.

vygramul:I sometimes have to wonder if people in those positions lose perspective or are genuinely frightened by the threats. I knew a libbiest lib that ever libbed lifetime liberal lib who got a job dealing with the threat of terrorism coming across our borders and became a rabid "OMG SEAL THE BORDERS!" person based not on they're stealing our jobs, not on the notion that law and morality were the same so, by definition, being an illegal alien made you a bad person, and not based on concerns over their not integrating. It was purely a reaction to terrorism.

So is it a result of their being too close to the problem, or is it because the threat is that grave? I suspect too close to the problem.

I'd go with too close to the problem.

CSB: My sister used to date a cop. I remember always being surprised at how he immediately assumed people were up to something nefarious if they were doing anything even remotely out of the ordinary. I remember one time we were driving through the country and passed a guy walking along the roadside, and he muttered "WTF is this asshole doing? Probably stealing corn." I asked him if he realized these were feed corn, not sweet corn fields, and that he wasn't carrying any sort of bags, so he'd be able to steal an armload of corn that people basically can't eat, then he'd have to walk it wherever he wanted to take it. Perhaps if he wanted to steal corn wouldn't it make more sense to just pull over his car, open the trunk, and throw a bunch in before driving away? He was still convinced the guy was up to something wrong.

I am pretty confident my file goes back to being a 6-year-old shortwave listener who wrote to Radio Moscow/Beijing/Havana in the early 80s with the "I'm a young American interested in your system of government" QSL. You got back neat swag that way. I've still got my Fidel Castro trading cards. The letters back were usually stamped "opened for inspection", and I fully expect TPTB have those notes in some dusty filebox somewhere.