If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Re: Trent Richardson underwent shoulder surgery

That's assuming that our o-line improves, which is by no means a guarantee.

Yes, that's certainly a major part of it. But T-Rich needs to improve too. The O-Line was bad, but it's not like they never cleared a hole for T-Rich. There were multiple times last season where a hole was cleared, but Trent either went the opposite way or stutter stepped/juked in the backfield and was tackled for a loss/low gain. There was a hideous example of this in Arizona, and another in the playoff game against New England. And that's just what I'm thinking of off the top of my head months after the season.

I think cdash mentioned this several months ago - T-Rich's tendency to overly stutter step/juke in the backfield probably comes from his days of playing at Alabama. Back then, he could stutter in the backfield and wait for that massive O-Line to overpower an inferior opponent and create a large hole. But those opportunities don't exist much in the NFL, even if you have a good O-Line. A great O-Line in the NFL is rarely going to have a talent gap over an opponent on the level that Alabama did against most of his opponents. In the NFL, good running backs quickly commit to a spot. T-Rich did not do this last year. He stuttered/juke to a fault and was way to slow to commit to a spot. Thankfully this can be coached to an extent.

The Colts tried to make it work all year with T-Rich, but it's pretty telling that they benched him in Week 13 against Tenn when their backs were up against the wall. It's not a coincidence that multiple Colts running backs looked better than T-Rich this year. T-Rich just wasn't any good and most of the time was downright bad when it came to running the football. I'm not giving up on him yet. He can hopefully get better with O-Line improvement, coaching, and a full summer to practice with the Colts. But it's not as simple as saying that the O-Line is all that needs improved. T-Rich has a lot he needs to work on if he's ever going to be a good running back.

The Following User Says Thank You to Sollozzo For This Useful Post:

Re: Trent Richardson underwent shoulder surgery

Nope its not, but regardless the line must improve. For everyone's sake, including Luck and TRich. The improvement lies mostly in the line, and less in everyone else. Everyone forgets he came in mid-season, and the line regressed to epicly bad levels at the exact same time.

Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 02-21-2014 at 08:33 AM.

There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

Re: Trent Richardson underwent shoulder surgery

I love how people think it's easy for a young player to come in to a new team mid season, learn a new scheme on the fly (his 3rd in 2 seasons), adjust to a new city, get comfortable in a new offense, play behind a horrible, HORRIBLE, truly OFFENSIVE line, and see every hole, break tons of tackles, rack up yards and score touchdowns. All while people who never played football at a high level over analyze your every move and crack lame jokes every chance they get. SMH

A lot easier to see those holes from your living room, on the replay, without 250 lb linebackers trying to take your head off.

Trent will be fine, his vision is fine, and he will have an excellent year this year.

Re: Trent Richardson underwent shoulder surgery

I love how people think it's easy for a young player to come in to a new team mid season, learn a new scheme on the fly (his 3rd in 2 seasons), adjust to a new city, get comfortable in a new offense, play behind a horrible, HORRIBLE, truly OFFENSIVE line, and see every hole, break tons of tackles, rack up yards and score touchdowns. All while people who never played football at a high level over analyze your every move and crack lame jokes every chance they get. SMH

A lot easier to see those holes from your living room, on the replay, without 250 lb linebackers trying to take your head off.

Trent will be fine, his vision is fine, and he will have an excellent year this year.

No one is saying that the guy had to come here and play like Barry Sanders. But if he's getting benched for Donald Brown, it's a bust of a trade (for now).

When Pagano benched Richardson, he was admitting that the trade was a bust. Sure he will tow the corporate line and say all the right things, but actions speak louder than words. When our backs were up against the wall against Tennessee in Week 13 (we would have been in deep crap at the time if we lost that game), Pagano didn't think that T-Rich was worthy of playing.

Re: Trent Richardson underwent shoulder surgery

No one is saying that the guy had to come here and play like Barry Sanders. But if he's getting benched for Donald Brown, it's a bust of a trade (for now).

When Pagano benched Richardson, he was admitting that the trade was a bust. Sure he will tow the corporate line and say all the right things, but actions speak louder than words. When our backs were up against the wall against Tennessee in Week 13 (we would have been in deep crap at the time if we lost that game), Pagano didn't think that T-Rich was worthy of playing.

He got outplayed by a former 1st round pick, who had been here for 5 years and knew the system\players\coaches in and out. Plus DB had his best season by far, and he's no slouch. Polian is really good at evaluating backs and took him in the first round.

There is no shame in that.

People were saying the same things about Dwight Freeney, Dallas Clark and Reggie Wayne their first couple of years too. Now they are all time Colts greats with a ring. There is a thin line between success and failure and football is much more cerebral than basketball believe it or not. A lot to learn for young players and not many just step on the field and play well right away.

Is it that hard to give the kid some time?

Also keep in mind DB has like 17 rushing TD in 5 years here, playing with PM for a couple of years as well. Trent has 14-15 in 2 years and he played a year with Brandon Weeden, was in 3 different offenses, got traded in the middle of it all, and hasn't even had a TC or offseason program yet.

Re: Trent Richardson underwent shoulder surgery

Nope its not, but regardless the line must improve. For everyone's sake, including Luck and TRich. The improvement lies mostly in the line, and less in everyone else. Everyone forgets he came in mid-season, and the line regressed to epicly bad levels at the exact same time.

Some pretty well respected evaluators disagree with the epically bad assesment. Everyone on the planet outside of the Colt's coaching staff could see Mike McGlynn was epically bad but when viewed as a unit #20 in Run Blocking is below average but not epically bad. Maybe they could have even been an average run blocking unit had Reitz and even Nixon got a lot more of McGlynn's snaps. This also would have helped the much more anemic pass blocking too as Reitz and Castonzo have been a decent backside tandem in the past.

Considering what the Colts gave up for him TR's performance was epically bad. He may turn it around with a better O-line but there is nothing about this years performance that would suggest this to be true.

There was no where near as much talk last seaon about the Colt's exceptionally poor pass blocking vs. the chatter about the run game. The main reason why is because Luck is legit and he overcame it and made plays anyway. TR showed no ability to do the same and he had better opportunities to do so.

The Following User Says Thank You to Downtown Bang! For This Useful Post:

Re: Trent Richardson underwent shoulder surgery

What I want is to see just how great Luck can be if he's on a legitimately stacked team. Both years his outstanding play has carried the team well above it's overall talent level. I do think that our offense last year would have been pretty nasty if it weren't for all of those damn injuries. WR1, TE1, 2 Running Backs, and a key O-Lineman. Manning never had do to deal with a rash of injuries like that. For the most part, we had pretty lucky health during the Manning years on the offensive side of the football. The worst thing was that Edge injury early in his career, but thankfully he rebounded and had some more great years with us. Harrison went down in 07, but by that point he was 35 and had given us a decade of elite play. I just want to see what Luck can do when he is surrounded by elite talent and isn't having to constantly pull things out of his a**.

Like I said in that thread I started a few weeks ago, it's all on Grigs right now. We have a golden opportunity while Luck is still on his rookie contract. Grigs must take advantage of that.

I'm not giving up on T-Rich. He is still young and I hope that we can coach him up this year. But getting benched for Donald Brown was not what the team had in mind when they traded for him.

The Following User Says Thank You to Sollozzo For This Useful Post:

Re: Trent Richardson underwent shoulder surgery

I think the team botched his transition and didn't use him properly. Throwing him out there as a starter 3 days after acquiring him was really really stupid. They never utilized his pass-catching skills, which again was very stupid. Instead they ran him up the gut of our terrible line repeatedly. They set him up to fail, and he did.

Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 02-22-2014 at 03:30 PM.

There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

Re: Trent Richardson underwent shoulder surgery

I think the team botched his transition and didn't use him properly. Throwing him out there as a starter 3 days after acquiring him was really really stupid. They never utilized his pass-catching skills, which again was very stupid. Instead they ran him up the gut of our terrible line repeatedly. They set him up to fail, and he did.

I think if you go back and look they tried to utilize his pass catching early on and he dropped some easy catches. It could be argued that he needed more time with Luck before utilizing him that much, and in the passing game, but it is what it is. He had some drops early and that might've led to confidence issues all the way around (receiver, thrower, coaches).

Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

------

"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

Re: Trent Richardson underwent shoulder surgery

He had games later on where he caught very well, and they just mysteriously stopped doing it.
I believe his pass-catching could have been a way to build his overall confidence, and it also would've benefited our team, and they just didn't take advantage of it.

There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

Re: Trent Richardson underwent shoulder surgery

What I want is to see just how great Luck can be if he's on a legitimately stacked team. Both years his outstanding play has carried the team well above it's overall talent level. I do think that our offense last year would have been pretty nasty if it weren't for all of those damn injuries. WR1, TE1, 2 Running Backs, and a key O-Lineman. Manning never had do to deal with a rash of injuries like that. For the most part, we had pretty lucky health during the Manning years on the offensive side of the football. The worst thing was that Edge injury early in his career, but thankfully he rebounded and had some more great years with us. Harrison went down in 07, but by that point he was 35 and had given us a decade of elite play. I just want to see what Luck can do when he is surrounded by elite talent and isn't having to constantly pull things out of his a**.

Like I said in that thread I started a few weeks ago, it's all on Grigs right now. We have a golden opportunity while Luck is still on his rookie contract. Grigs must take advantage of that.

I'm not giving up on T-Rich. He is still young and I hope that we can coach him up this year. But getting benched for Donald Brown was not what the team had in mind when they traded for him.

The 2010 season? I don't know about you but it seemed most of that team was on IR as well

Re: Trent Richardson underwent shoulder surgery

The 2010 season? I don't know about you but it seemed most of that team was on IR as well

Yep, you're right, that was a bad year for the health of our team. All the more unfortunate considering it was his last year here. For the most part though, the offense was extremely healthy and loaded during his long tenure here.

Re: Trent Richardson underwent shoulder surgery

The main reason why is because Luck is legit and he overcame it and made plays anyway. TR showed no ability to do the same and he had better opportunities to do so.

Not to mention Luck is a QB, and they have multiple options to either change a play, tuck it and run, throw the ball away, force a throw, etc. The difference between QB and RB can't be compared. As a RB, you're at the mercy of your QB and your O-line, every single time you touch the ball.

What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

Re: Trent Richardson underwent shoulder surgery

Not to mention Luck is a QB, and they have multiple options to either change a play, tuck it and run, throw the ball away, force a throw, etc. The difference between QB and RB can't be compared. As a RB, you're at the mercy of your QB and your O-line, every single time you touch the ball.

And they showed Donald Brown more mercy than TRich

Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

------

"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

Re: Trent Richardson underwent shoulder surgery

Donald had a pretty good ypc, but when you actually look at his production, it wasn't anything. For example, in Dec he averaged an impressive 4.73ypc, but then only averaged 42.6 yards per game. It's kind of like looking at a basketball players stats and saying "Hey this guy is pretty good, he's shooting 60% from 3pt land!" and then looking over and realizing that he shoots 1 attempt per game.

Brown has always been a productive runner, when he's been healthy, and gotten opportunities, but the holes in his game are so massive in other areas (blocking) that you can't keep him on the field. I would imagine only getting a handful of snaps per game makes that ypc a little bit inflated. He usually had one big gain that accounted for most of his yards, and then sucked it up the other 90%.

But then again, we're talking about a player (Trent) who can put up 1300yds from scrimmage and 12 TDs, and have people try to argue he sucked and will never be good.

It's whatever though. Trent will be a Colt and will be the starting back. What he does next year will either erase or prove what's been said for 2013.

What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?