For the record, I don't hate all bicyclists. Just the ones who want all the same rights as a motor vehicle, but don't want to follow the same rules. Fuck them.

Like all those d-bag drivers who break laws and want all the same rights as those drivers who do not. Give me a fucking break. Motorists break laws too. The problem is that when they do, people can die. Start bitching about them (and follow every single law yourself) and you might have some credibility.

That's hilarious Demon Lung! What percentage of people speeding/doing illegal lane changes/not using directionals in cars actually get tickets? I speed every day and haven't had a ticket in 15 years.

What is the number of motorists compared to cyclists? What is the potential consequence of a cyclist not obeying a traffic law as compared to a motorist?

There are sting operations set up in places around Portland every few months that are notorious for cyclists rolling stops. $247 fine not not coming to a complete stop, same as motorists pay. The smaller cities outside of our metro area nail every cyclist riding through who do not come to complete stops. This happens often.

That's hilarious Demon Lung! What percentage of people speeding/doing illegal lane changes/not using directionals in cars actually get tickets? I speed every day and haven't had a ticket in 15 years.

What is the number of motorists compared to cyclists? What is the potential consequence of a cyclist not obeying a traffic law as compared to a motorist?

There are sting operations set up in places around Portland every few months that are notorious for cyclists rolling stops. $247 fine not not coming to a complete stop, same as motorists pay. The smaller cities outside of our metro area nail every cyclist riding through who do not come to complete stops. This happens often.

well unfortunatly im basing everything im talking about is the nyc area. i have no clue what goes on in portland just like im sure that you have no clue what goes on here. i have never seen a cyclist not run a red light where i live and yes it is frustrating because cyclist are supposed to follow the same laws a motorist. im not saying that all cyclist are morons i just feel like around where i live that they should be held accountable on the road as i am

You are correct. I don't know the cycling scene as well in NYC. What I do know is that non-cyclists all over this country berate ALL cyclists based on the behavior of some, yet give a pass to motorists for doing the exact same things (despite the sometimes fatal consequences for shitty driving). This is bull shit. Just recently a cyclist was killed by a motorist here who "couldn't see the cyclist because of the sun." No charges were filed against the motorist. This, too, is complete bull shit.

You are correct. I don't know the cycling scene as well in NYC. What I do know is that non-cyclists all over this country berate ALL cyclists based on the behavior of some, yet give a pass to motorists for doing the exact same things (despite the sometimes fatal consequences for shitty driving). This is bull shit. Just recently a cyclist was killed by a motorist here who "couldn't see the cyclist because of the sun." No charges were filed against the motorist. This, too, is complete bull shit.

i dont give a pass to bad drivers. i think that every state should make it touger to get a license. in germany the kids have to go through all sorts of driver training and then pay a smooth g just to get their license. i license should not be a right but a priveledge. and the second you show lack of common sense as a driver you should lose your license.

4000 lbs of iron vs 25 lbs of bike... you can't compare the consequences of an error riding a car vs riding a bike. I understand that when you are stuck in a traffic jam, and traffic jams are the norm in most towns, it's so easy to hate on the bike that doesn't have to suck the jam, but get one then..

I have a car, but I live in a city with such a terrible traffic that I get mad after 5 minutes. It's such a waste of time that I don't bother taking the car anymore, no matter the cold, the rain, the heat, the hills... not to speak about parking or gas money... seriously, I don't understand the use of the car downtown, where it's taking you 30 minutes or even more to do 3 miles and you get a lot of stress and hate on the other drivers and everything around.I guess fear from crazy bus drivers is keeping people from switching to bicycle

For the record, I don't hate all bicyclists. Just the ones who want all the same rights as a motor vehicle, but don't want to follow the same rules. Fuck them.

Like all those d-bag drivers who break laws and want all the same rights as those drivers who do not. Give me a fucking break. Motorists break laws too. The problem is that when they do, people can die. Start bitching about them (and follow every single law yourself) and you might have some credibility.

What's up your ass? I wasn't talking about motorists. The topic is cyclists. I fucking hate shitty drivers even MORE than I hate shitty cyclists. Also, I stated quite clearly that I was not referring to all cyclists, just the assholes. Read better, and think harder, then you might have some credibility.

Funny, the argument that a shitty motorist is a lot more likely to harm others than a shitty cyclist gets ignored. I don't consider it a free pass but if I run a red light on a bicycle and get run over a potential ticket would be my least problem. If I ride my bicycle drunk there is a small chance that I run into and hurt a pedestrian. Much more likely is that I hurt myself. Different scenario if I get behind the wheel shitfaced. Once again, I don't think that frees me from paying attention to traffic rules but I don't think that you can compare the behavior of cyclists and motorist one to one. Not only because of the potential damage caused but because of the sheer difference in numbers too.

What's up your ass? I wasn't talking about motorists. The topic is cyclists. I fucking hate shitty drivers even MORE than I hate shitty cyclists. Also, I stated quite clearly that I was not referring to all cyclists, just the assholes. Read better, and think harder, then you might have some credibility.

I can read just fine. The topic is cyclists and drivers as the thread began with a motorist and cyclist. What's up my ass is that people in American seem to think that the rights of cyclists need to earned by all of us demonstrating good behavior all the time. One cyclist running a stop sign is justification in the eyes of many to get them the hell off the road. I even hear people say that cyclists should get the hell off the road for following the law (ie. taking the lane in downtown). That is bull shit. I have yet to hear one single person argue that cars should get the hell off the road because they just saw someone run a red light, drive too fast, kill a pedestrian, etc. Cyclists and motorists cannot be separated, yet cyclists are seen as the inferior user group who needs to prove something to gain access to their rights. That is bull shit. Asshole cyclists have just as much right to be assholes on the road as drivers do.

I would imagine that most motorists who run a red light/stop sign, do it by accident - or think they can make it before the change.

I would imagine that most cyclists who run a red light/stop sign, do it after looking both ways and seeing no oncoming traffic.

This. You want to be treated equally, sit your fucking ass at the red light, just like the rest of us.

funny this discussion. In holland and belgium we're close to allowing cyclists to run a red light for right turns. it makes a lot more sense than you think. for one it's safer for the cyclist. The danger is not in the cars coming from the left but from the cars coming from the back once the light turns green.

cyclists and motorists shouldn't be compelled to follow the same laws. The same rules of safety, fysics, numbers etc. just don't apply so the same laws shouldn't either.

I would imagine that most motorists who run a red light/stop sign, do it by accident - or think they can make it before the change.

I would imagine that most cyclists who run a red light/stop sign, do it after looking both ways and seeing no oncoming traffic.

This. You want to be treated equally, sit your fucking ass at the red light, just like the rest of us.

funny this discussion. In holland and belgium we're close to allowing cyclists to run a red light for right turns. it makes a lot more sense than you think. for one it's safer for the cyclist. The danger is not in the cars coming from the left but from the cars coming from the back once the light turns green.

cyclists and motorists shouldn't be compelled to follow the same laws. The same rules of safety, fysics, numbers etc. just don't apply so the same laws shouldn't either.

In the us we have to stop at the light until its clear and then you can make a right turn on red unless otherwise posted. We are talking about the morons that run the red light going straight. It isn't the people using their bikes as a mode of transportation. It is the guys with full lance Armstrong gear which in turn are the same people that are asshole drivers. It the rich assholes in the bikes that are lancing it out that don't follow the traffic laws. But the dont follow them while in their cars either but it seems like when they step on that 12 speed that they think they don't have to follow any laws