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Topic: If He Exists, Can Biblegod Be Destroyed? (Read 8868 times)

As the title says, if he exists, can Biblegod be destroyed? Given enough time for technology to develop of course. This question comes from another debate about a god being natural or not. I'm not fussed about the definitions of natural or supernatural, you can call Biblegod either. I'm curious if we can get at a core description of YHWH's physical properties with this question. Obviously I realise that from history, we only have to stop worshipping a particular god to destroy him, but I'm intrigued to hear what theists believe are YHWH's properties.

As the title says, if he exists, can Biblegod be destroyed? Given enough time for technology to develop of course. This question comes from another debate about a god being natural or not. I'm not fussed about the definitions of natural or supernatural, you can call Biblegod either. I'm curious if we can get at a core description of YHWH's physical properties with this question. Obviously I realise that from history, we only have to stop worshipping a particular god to destroy him, but I'm intrigued to hear what theists believe are YHWH's properties.

One is that the Chrisitian God is the/a necessary being, i.e. he cannot not exist.

A rapid fire super massive black hole cannon enhanced with hilbert space anti-vectors will do it. you would need a high speed computer on board to detect and calulate the anti-vector in hilbert space to whatever reality god projected at you. hilbert space is of infinite dimension so get a big computer mounted on the event horizon of the super massive black hole blasts.

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some skepisms, 1. "I have not seen God. I have felt the invisible presence"2. What if there is a rock in the middle of a road, a blind person is speeding towards it, ...they say that they can't see it. Would you recommend him to keep speeding?

A rapid fire super massive black hole cannon enhanced with hilbert space anti-vectors will do it. you would need a high speed computer on board to detect and calulate the anti-vector in hilbert space to whatever reality god projected at you. hilbert space is of infinite dimension so get a big computer mounted on the event horizon of the super massive black hole blasts.

Perhaps you might be able to get someone like Abraham to distract Him by haggling with Him, so He doesn't move out of the way.

A rapid fire super massive black hole cannon enhanced with hilbert space anti-vectors will do it. you would need a high speed computer on board to detect and calulate the anti-vector in hilbert space to whatever reality god projected at you. hilbert space is of infinite dimension so get a big computer mounted on the event horizon of the super massive black hole blasts.

Perhaps you might be able to get someone like Abraham to distract Him by haggling with Him, so He doesn't move out of the way.

fuk you is retarded, obviously you would go for a head shot when he stuck his face between to galaxies and use gravitational lensing to focus the kill zone.

don't try this without safety goggles on. nobody has ever looked at yaweh's face and survived.

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some skepisms, 1. "I have not seen God. I have felt the invisible presence"2. What if there is a rock in the middle of a road, a blind person is speeding towards it, ...they say that they can't see it. Would you recommend him to keep speeding?

As the title says, if he exists, can Biblegod be destroyed? Given enough time for technology to develop of course. This question comes from another debate about a god being natural or not. I'm not fussed about the definitions of natural or supernatural, you can call Biblegod either. I'm curious if we can get at a core description of YHWH's physical properties with this question. Obviously I realise that from history, we only have to stop worshipping a particular god to destroy him, but I'm intrigued to hear what theists believe are YHWH's properties.

One is that the Chrisitian God is the/a necessary being, i.e. he cannot not exist.

I'm not sure that necessarily means that god cannot be destroyed.

All that means is that if he is destroyed, then whatever he is necessary for is also destroyed. Maybe that circumstance sucks, but that in and of itself doesn't mean it is impossible.

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"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

As the title says, if he exists, can Biblegod be destroyed? Given enough time for technology to develop of course. This question comes from another debate about a god being natural or not. I'm not fussed about the definitions of natural or supernatural, you can call Biblegod either. I'm curious if we can get at a core description of YHWH's physical properties with this question. Obviously I realise that from history, we only have to stop worshipping a particular god to destroy him, but I'm intrigued to hear what theists believe are YHWH's properties.

One is that the Chrisitian God is the/a necessary being, i.e. he cannot not exist.

I'm not sure that necessarily means that god cannot be destroyed.

All that means is that if he is destroyed, then whatever he is necessary for is also destroyed. Maybe that circumstance sucks, but that in and of itself doesn't mean it is impossible.

I'm new here, but I understood the OP to mean the God of the bible. If that is so and he does exist then he can't be destroyed, because he cannot not exist. If there was a God who could be destroyed, it wouldn't be the God of the bible.

As the title says, if he exists, can Biblegod be destroyed? Given enough time for technology to develop of course. This question comes from another debate about a god being natural or not. I'm not fussed about the definitions of natural or supernatural, you can call Biblegod either. I'm curious if we can get at a core description of YHWH's physical properties with this question. Obviously I realise that from history, we only have to stop worshipping a particular god to destroy him, but I'm intrigued to hear what theists believe are YHWH's properties.

One is that the Chrisitian God is the/a necessary being, i.e. he cannot not exist.

I'm not sure that necessarily means that god cannot be destroyed.

All that means is that if he is destroyed, then whatever he is necessary for is also destroyed. Maybe that circumstance sucks, but that in and of itself doesn't mean it is impossible.

I'm new here, but I understood the OP to mean the God of the bible. If that is so and he does exist then he can't be destroyed, because he cannot not exist. If there was a God who could be destroyed, it wouldn't be the God of the bible.

How can Biblegod not not exist? After he supposedly created the universe, why can't he now be destroyed? Can you expand on that?

....I'm new here, but I understood the OP to mean the God of the bible. If that is so and he does exist then he can't be destroyed, because he cannot not exist. If there was a God who could be destroyed, it wouldn't be the God of the bible.

How can Biblegod not not exist? After he supposedly created the universe, why can't he now be destroyed? Can you expand on that?

There are statements like Psalm 90:2 which speak of God being from everlasting to everlasting, John 5:26 which speaks of God the Father having "life in himself", Romans 11:33-36 which all seem to speak of God as not having a beginning, of him not being "contingent".

On the bit about him having created the universe, I take it you are asking whether he is no disposable, no longer needed. If Paul spoke correctly in Acts 17 when he speaks out him being the one in whom we live and move and have our being, it sounds like we owe our continued existence to him.

Of course, none of this does prove that the God the bible does exist, but the OP didn't ask for that.

....I'm new here, but I understood the OP to mean the God of the bible. If that is so and he does exist then he can't be destroyed, because he cannot not exist. If there was a God who could be destroyed, it wouldn't be the God of the bible.

How can Biblegod not not exist? After he supposedly created the universe, why can't he now be destroyed? Can you expand on that?

There are statements like Psalm 90:2 which speak of God being from everlasting to everlasting, John 5:26 which speaks of God the Father having "life in himself", Romans 11:33-36 which all seem to speak of God as not having a beginning, of him not being "contingent".

On the bit about him having created the universe, I take it you are asking whether he is no disposable, no longer needed. If Paul spoke correctly in Acts 17 when he speaks out him being the one in whom we live and move and have our being, it sounds like we owe our continued existence to him.

Of course, none of this does prove that the God the bible does exist, but the OP didn't ask for that.

Those parts are metaphorical and are not meant to be taken literally. For example men and women have 'life in themselves' with the ability to make children. When Psalms say that god is everlasting, it means in our hearts. Paul was talking about god's spirit being within us.I think he can be destroyed.

11 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. 2 As people moved eastward, they found a plain in Shinar and settled there.

3 They said to each other, ‘Come, let’s make bricks and bake them thoroughly.’ They used brick instead of stone, and bitumen for mortar. 4 Then they said, ‘Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.’

5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The Lord said, ‘If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them.

One is that the Chrisitian God is the/a necessary being, i.e. he cannot not exist.

I'm not sure that necessarily means that god cannot be destroyed.

All that means is that if he is destroyed, then whatever he is necessary for is also destroyed. Maybe that circumstance sucks, but that in and of itself doesn't mean it is impossible.

I'm new here, but I understood the OP to mean the God of the bible. If that is so and he does exist then he can't be destroyed, because he cannot not exist. If there was a God who could be destroyed, it wouldn't be the God of the bible.

I believe that the OP is assuming that the 'god' we're talking about is the god of the bible. That was the assumption I was going with as well, though honestly I think that is irrelevant to my point.

You are essentially saying that god can't be destroyed because he can't be destroyed. You are adding the label 'necessary' without any context. It's essentially just making the unsupported proclamation that god must exist. Necessary for what? If it's one of those 'god is necessary for reality to exist' things, I guess that's fine I suppose, but that, in and of itself, does not mean it is impossible to destroy god (and subsequently reality). Unless you mean to assert that reality itself is impossible to destroy - which is fine, but you'll have to justify that one, as well as justifying why reality's existence necessarily requires god's existence. Or are there some assumed conditionals in here somewhere, like arguing that god cannot be destroyed without destroying reality or somesuch?

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"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

Well, YHWH is deathly afraid of/powerless against iron chariots (and I suspect iron, as iron is more or less always seen as a symbol of protection against evil). Enough iron chariots could, theoretically, kill it, or, at the very least, depower it enough so that we mortal beings could.

« Last Edit: April 11, 2014, 12:40:05 PM by One Above All »

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My names are many, yet I am One.-Orion, son of Fire and Light, Sol Invictus.

One is that the Chrisitian God is the/a necessary being, i.e. he cannot not exist.

I'm not sure that necessarily means that god cannot be destroyed.

All that means is that if he is destroyed, then whatever he is necessary for is also destroyed. Maybe that circumstance sucks, but that in and of itself doesn't mean it is impossible.

I'm new here, but I understood the OP to mean the God of the bible. If that is so and he does exist then he can't be destroyed, because he cannot not exist. If there was a God who could be destroyed, it wouldn't be the God of the bible.

I believe that the OP is assuming that the 'god' we're talking about is the god of the bible. That was the assumption I was going with as well, though honestly I think that is irrelevant to my point.

You are essentially saying that god can't be destroyed because he can't be destroyed. You are adding the label 'necessary' without any context. It's essentially just making the unsupported proclamation that god must exist. Necessary for what? If it's one of those 'god is necessary for reality to exist' things, I guess that's fine I suppose, but that, in and of itself, does not mean it is impossible to destroy god (and subsequently reality). Unless you mean to assert that reality itself is impossible to destroy - which is fine, but you'll have to justify that one, as well as justifying why reality's existence necessarily requires god's existence. Or are there some assumed conditionals in here somewhere, like arguing that god cannot be destroyed without destroying reality or somesuch?

As I said earlier, the OP said that if the God of the bible exists, then can he be destroyed, to which the answer is, "No". As I think we all agree (so far), this doesn't show that the God of the bible exists (or doesn't exist).

As I said earlier, the OP said that if the God of the bible exists, then can he be destroyed, to which the answer is, "No". As I think we all agree (so far), this doesn't show that the God of the bible exists (or doesn't exist).

I realize that your answer is no. I realize that you are saying that god cannot be destroyed. I'm trying to figure out why that's your answer, and saying that god cannot be made to not exist (i.e. destroyed) because god cannot be made to not exist (i.e. destroyed) doesn't explain a whole lot.

"I don't know" is a fine answer BTW. Certainly if it's true.

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"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

As I said earlier, the OP said that if the God of the bible exists, then can he be destroyed, to which the answer is, "No". As I think we all agree (so far), this doesn't show that the God of the bible exists (or doesn't exist).

I realize that your answer is no. I realize that you are saying that god cannot be destroyed. I'm trying to figure out why that's your answer, and saying that god cannot be made to not exist (i.e. destroyed) because god cannot be made to not exist (i.e. destroyed) doesn't explain a whole lot.

"I don't know" is a fine answer BTW. Certainly if it's true.

Yes, that's OK. The OP was about the God of the bible though. Shall we leave it at the God of the bible being defined in such a way as to not be contingent if he exists. Otherwise, its like debating why a square has four sides.

What I'm trying to get at is if Biblegod can't be destroyed uh-ah, no way, not ever, no matter what, not by anything ever, then to my mind that would put him in the realm of (and I hesitate to use this word although I can think of no other better) 'magic'.

What I'm trying to get at is if Biblegod can't be destroyed uh-ah, no way, not ever, no matter what, not by anything ever, then to my mind that would put him in the realm of (and I hesitate to use this word although I can think of no other better) 'magic'.

What I'm trying to get at is if Biblegod can't be destroyed uh-ah, no way, not ever, no matter what, not by anything ever, then to my mind that would put him in the realm of (and I hesitate to use this word although I can think of no other better) 'magic'.

Why?

Because if a theist claimed this property about their god, I cannot see a difference between the deity and a magical being. Who knows what technology humanity will develop.Actually, this perhaps wasn't the brightest thread post on my behalf; we're debating how to kill imaginary beings, this isn't really going to go anywhere, is it?!

What I'm trying to get at is if Biblegod can't be destroyed uh-ah, no way, not ever, no matter what, not by anything ever, then to my mind that would put him in the realm of (and I hesitate to use this word although I can think of no other better) 'magic'.

Why?

Because if a theist claimed this property about their god, I cannot see a difference between the deity and a magical being. Who knows what technology humanity will develop.Actually, this perhaps wasn't the brightest thread post on my behalf; we're debating how to kill imaginary beings, this isn't really going to go anywhere, is it?!

Think of this as a hypothetical. If we were going into the physical world, there'd be one thing we'd need to consider: what we mean by "exists". Does it exist as an idea, or as an actual living entity? If the latter, then this discussion is relevant. If the former, then there's several ways to do it, though only the slowest methods are ethically viable: brainwashing, killing everyone who holds the idea or has ever heard of the idea (id est: everyone who is over 4 years old and was raised by a theist, became a theist, or was raised by an atheist who exposed them to religion), education, improving lifestyles... There's probably more, but I can't recall them at the moment.

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My names are many, yet I am One.-Orion, son of Fire and Light, Sol Invictus.

I realize that your answer is no. I realize that you are saying that god cannot be destroyed. I'm trying to figure out why that's your answer, and saying that god cannot be made to not exist (i.e. destroyed) because god cannot be made to not exist (i.e. destroyed) doesn't explain a whole lot.

"I don't know" is a fine answer BTW. Certainly if it's true.

Yes, that's OK. The OP was about the God of the bible though. Shall we leave it at the God of the bible being defined in such a way as to not be contingent if he exists. Otherwise, its like debating why a square has four sides.

You need to understand that you're essentially saying that god can't be destroyed because god can't be destroyed. It's a little different than debating why a square has four sides. That debate can actually happen - we can go over the history of the evolution of linguistics and mathematics and come up with an explanation for why we label 4-sided geometric objects with each side of equal length 'square'. It's a little different than debating why we would call some object present in reality a square - we can talk about the observations of that object, measurements of sides, and the relationship between the things that we observe and various labels that we have the may or may not apply to said object (i.e. square, triangle, purple tentacle, etc.).

The only way it's the same as 'debating why a square has four sides' is if we all agree that we're just talking about definitions and labels, and not talking about something that exists in reality. But then, we can't really talk about anything like 'existence' without making the debate incoherent.

Ron is essentially looking for what the explanatory mechanism is for the property of "cannot be destroyed" or "cannot not exist".

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"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

As the title says, if he exists, can Biblegod be destroyed? Given enough time for technology to develop of course.

I'm going to say yes, he can be destroyed.

If we take biblegod as a given, there are a ton of clues that would indicate he is not, in fact, indestructible.

- Genesis. H shows many chinks in the armor here.

First, we learn he is not omni-present nor is he all-knowing. While Eve and her slow witted mate were gaining moral knowledge, yhwh was out for a stroll. Then, when he comes back, he asks Adam where he is and he had no idea how they knew they were naked! He asked who told them!

Then he kicked out Eve and her slow-witted mate not because they disobeyed him, but because he was afraid they would eat from the Tree of Life and become gods like yhwh and the others. He was so concerned about it he stationed two Cherubs with flaming swords to protect it. If we could break into Eden and get some fruit from the Tree of Life, we could be immortal. Given that yhwh apparently could not just undo the effects of the Moral Knowledge Tree, and his level of concern that they not get to the Tree of Life, I think we can guess that once we become immortal, there isn't squat yhwh can do about it. This is the key to our victory.

Now, I know cherubs are terrifying, or at least they were to the Iron Age hebrews. But I would not count on flaming swords doing much to an M1A1 Abrams Main Battle Tank.

- Iron Chariots. As mentioned above by OAA, Iron Chariots did indeed defeat the hebrews, even though yhwh was with them. Again, I look to an M1A1 main battle tank. If yhwh cannot beat them, I cannot see how is lesser minions will fare any better. It is important to note that the iron chariots did not exactly beat yhwh. They beat his guys, the jooz. The iron chariots only apparently neutralized yhwh's blessing (buff?). So given that, we may still need another way to kill him.

- Wrestling. At one point Jacob wrestled yhwh and won. It took all night and he had a gimpy hip from then on, but he kicked yhwh's ass but good. The bible is a little vague on this. At one point it says it was god, another it says a man, and it also implies it was an angel. Jacob's new name - Israel - is a theophoric that means "struggles with god". So, I am leaning toward it being god.

Training in Brazilian jiujitsu will give us an edge.

- Burnt offerings. We know that yhwh loves the smell of some Babby-Q. I propose that not to soothe his wrath, but possibly as a distraction while we get the MMA fighters and tanks in place.

So that's the plan. Train up in MMA. Bust into Eden and acquire godlike immortality. Lure yhwh in with a cook-out. Bring in the tanks and Choke. Him. Out.

Don't forget you have to kill all three heads before it dies unless you become a unitarian before the battle.

The holy spirit is almost impossible to get a choke hold on, do not go to ground with him. so much to plan.

« Last Edit: April 11, 2014, 09:47:06 PM by eh! »

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some skepisms, 1. "I have not seen God. I have felt the invisible presence"2. What if there is a rock in the middle of a road, a blind person is speeding towards it, ...they say that they can't see it. Would you recommend him to keep speeding?

Biblegod is a caricature. By caricature I mean a distortion for illustrative or literary purposes.

For atheists he is a deliberate caricature.

For many Judeo-Christians he is an accidental caricature.

Can a caricature be destroyed ? You can pretty much do what you like with a caricature. In most senses yes a caricature can be destroyed but not completely. Eg Superman could (I assume) be killed by Kryptonite but he would still live on in the imagination esp for children. And from a scientific perspective the mass and energy of which he was composed would simply have changed form rather than being destroyed.

But most importantly people should always be aware that they are not discussing God when they are discussing the biblegod caricature.

Can a caricature be destroyed ? You can pretty much do what you like with a caricature. In most senses yes a caricature can be destroyed but not completely. Eg Superman could (I assume) be killed by Kryptonite but he would still live on in the imagination esp for children. And from a scientific perspective the mass and energy of which he was composed would simply have changed form rather than being destroyed.

But most importantly people should always be aware that they are not discussing God when they are discussing the biblegod caricature.

Let me be clear. When I talk of the destruction of YHWH I mean rendering him to a state where he is no longer able to perform any act. A state where his atoms or energy are simply that; non-thinking non-aware random energy/particles. I am not talking about destroying his atoms or his memory, I mean a state similar to if a human being stood next to a detonating nuclear bomb; the atoms still exist but no longer as sentient being. A state where the entity YHWH no longer exists.