TS vs Mistbind Clique? trying a 2 2 split, but mistbind helps gain tempo back against zoo. Also I know I was heavily in favor of EE over damnation early in the season but the rise of doran/ midrange means that there is still alot of value in wrath of god.

One thing you may want to consider is changing the doom blades to either deathmarks. They obviously suck in the mirror, but I would be more worried about zoo. Besides, there aren't really any creatures you can kill with doom blade that won't die to deathmark. Ben and I were also talking about adding firespout to the deck.

I've tried and don't dislike the red version, but the manabase makes it take alot of damage for essentially gaining access to lightning bolt and one side of firespout. Damnation and doomblade/ deathmark aren't much worse.

i second this... as well as killing hexmages an unanswered bob keeps DDT (DDepths/Thopter) in games they have no business being in.in the online dailies ive been seeing a lot more bobs in zoo decks too.

when we were testing on Wed, smother was a HOUSEit kills everything in Zoo (outside of BSA, but not too many people are playing rubin zoo lately bk it loses to DDT)... and even then you have Deathmarks out of the sideboard for BSA. they shouldn't be able to cast a cmc 5 creature that easily against you anyhow.

4 Smothers main has been really good for me. Hits Confidant and Hexmage and EVERYTHING in Domain Zoo. I had Lightning Bolts in their slot but just found that Smothers are better against Domain Zoo (ie killing Goyf or KnightOfReliq). The ability to go to the dome is nice occasionally but...

The creeping tar pit has been a 1 of and are pretty damn good against DDT but you already have a really good game against. I'd much rather have them over the ugly 1/2 River Of Tears that never let me cast what I want when I want to on my own turn. perhaps it could become the new worldwake common black land that exiles graveyards..

Firespouts have been amazing vs Zoo and have been easy enough to play on turn 3 consistently manabase wise (with them in your hand obv). With 4 Deathmark/4 Smother also in after boarding the only thing you have to do is make sure your opener has a good amount of removal or counters and if you live through the first 5 turns you are usually golden. I just found that without red in the deck, it's hard to live long enough vs Domain zoo to stabilize. Damnation just always would come in for me a turn or two too late where I was already at 7/8 by the time i could cast and just die the next turn to tribal flames and a burn spell that i couldn't stop bk i tapped out for Damnation. Firespout hits earilier when I'm still at 12/14 or so.

Scapeshift as usual is pretty easy as long as you play well and don't keep bad hands (and unless they are running some super tech against just fairies (unlikely) all they are bringing in is negates)

Elves is a tricky matchup, but if you play it slow and make sure you have smothers/mana leaks/sprites in your opener you have some game and can hopefully stop the key pieces.

My two questions to pose are:

firespout x3 or spell snare x3 main?spell snares are generally good as against almost the whole field every deck has cmc 2 cards, but my feeling lately has been that spell snares really only help you against the decks you already pretty handily beat (ie DarkDepthsThopter and Scapeshift. Firespouts are dead against those decks (unless they cant combo and try to go beatdown) but help you shore up your toughest matchup, 1 drop/domain zoo. I'm playing in the extended tournament in RI on Saturday and if the field looks like a sea of Zoo im mainboarding Spouts. Spellsnares out the board should be fine..

Deathmark or Threads of Disloyalty in the s/b?if the zoo decks aren't running pridemage, stealing a goyf or knight is a HOUSE. threads also steals Marit Lage tokens and other random smaller stuff (meddling mage =)deathmark just kills things for less mana and its only downside is that it doesn't kill kird ape.I'm leaning towards deathmarks here..

i second this... as well as killing hexmages an unanswered bob keeps DDT (DDepths/Thopter) in games they have no business being in.in the online dailies ive been seeing a lot more bobs in zoo decks too.

when we were testing on Wed, smother was a HOUSEit kills everything in Zoo (outside of BSA, but not too many people are playing rubin zoo lately bk it loses to DDT)... and even then you have Deathmarks out of the sideboard for BSA. they shouldn't be able to cast a cmc 5 creature that easily against you anyhow.

4 Smothers main has been really good for me. Hits Confidant and Hexmage and EVERYTHING in Domain Zoo. I had Lightning Bolts in their slot but just found that Smothers are better against Domain Zoo (ie killing Goyf or KnightOfReliq). The ability to go to the dome is nice occasionally but...

The creeping tar pit has been a 1 of and are pretty damn good against DDT but you already have a really good game against. I'd much rather have them over the ugly 1/2 River Of Tears that never let me cast what I want when I want to on my own turn. perhaps it could become the new worldwake common black land that exiles graveyards..

Firespouts have been amazing vs Zoo and have been easy enough to play on turn 3 consistently manabase wise (with them in your hand obv). With 4 Deathmark/4 Smother also in after boarding the only thing you have to do is make sure your opener has a good amount of removal or counters and if you live through the first 5 turns you are usually golden. I just found that without red in the deck, it's hard to live long enough vs Domain zoo to stabilize. Damnation just always would come in for me a turn or two too late where I was already at 7/8 by the time i could cast and just die the next turn to tribal flames and a burn spell that i couldn't stop bk i tapped out for Damnation. Firespout hits earilier when I'm still at 12/14 or so.

Scapeshift as usual is pretty easy as long as you play well and don't keep bad hands (and unless they are running some super tech against just fairies (unlikely) all they are bringing in is negates)

Elves is a tricky matchup, but if you play it slow and make sure you have smothers/mana leaks/sprites in your opener you have some game and can hopefully stop the key pieces.

My two questions to pose are:

firespout x3 or spell snare x3 main?spell snares are generally good as against almost the whole field every deck has cmc 2 cards, but my feeling lately has been that spell snares really only help you against the decks you already pretty handily beat (ie DarkDepthsThopter and Scapeshift. Firespouts are dead against those decks (unless they cant combo and try to go beatdown) but help you shore up your toughest matchup, 1 drop/domain zoo. I'm playing in the extended tournament in RI on Saturday and if the field looks like a sea of Zoo im mainboarding Spouts. Spellsnares out the board should be fine..

Deathmark or Threads of Disloyalty in the s/b?if the zoo decks aren't running pridemage, stealing a goyf or knight is a HOUSE. threads also steals Marit Lage tokens and other random smaller stuff (meddling mage =)deathmark just kills things for less mana and its only downside is that it doesn't kill kird ape.I'm leaning towards deathmarks here..

Threads is great but it is very high risk high reward. I like deathmark better.

I concur. The ability to roll out removal for only one-mana is really important in the fast Extended metagame. Even if you aren't casting Deathmark on turn one the ability to fit in a one-mana spell with other higher casting cost spells on later turns means that you are making a more efficient use of your mana.Threads may grant you more incremental advantage but it is slower and more limited in its applicaiton.Additionally, your removal suite is already limited on the casting cost of the opponents' spells (4 x Smother and 4 x Spellstutter). You should not limit your removal and control by the same dimension too many times. It is better that some of your removal is limited by converted mana cost and the other is limited by color so you don't have a total weakness to high casting cost creatures (Baneslayer).

mulled to 4 game 1 vs rubin zoo round 2.. then kept a 1 lander...drew a 2nd land turn 3 after he had a field full of creatures.

game 2 was better, but he got the punishing fires gig going and kept screwing it up so i could v clique him as he was returning it at the end of my turn. i NEVER drew an extirpate while he had next to no pressure and all i could draw as trip v clique and trip bblossom.. sad panda.

round 3 was vs deathcloud.. which *should* be a bye but...game 1 is pretty much in the bag as im at 4, mistbind on the board championing BB with a token out also. he's at 14, but i have another mistbind in hand and do some math in my head and figure that i can beat him before BB kills me so i mistbind my mistbind to lock him out for a turn. his next two turns are finks and Eternal Witness. uggh. i die to my BB when he is at 1.

game 3 he extirpates or cranials almost my entire deck (jittes, mistbinds, cryptics) and then pithing needles my mutavaults and we end up drawing. I concede as Id rather leave and go to a party with friends in RI than fight uphill with a 1-1-1 record in a 6 round cut to top 8 tournie...

i figure i got enough info from the tournament... the field was lots of DDT, elves combo, zoo, scapeshift... a few randoms. there were two deathclouds but they didn't fare so well.

i guess ill see what does well in oakland before making changes to the Fae or audibling to DDT....

Dumpley, if you assume that your deck will always be behind and always losing to a faster deck, then you will realize that Familiar's Ruse is terrible. Granted when you are already winning and have a Spellstutter or V-Clique in play to dispose of in that situation Familiar's Ruse is great. However, if the typical scenario is less than ideal Familiar's Ruse is no good.The better strategy to deckbuilding in a control deck in a fast format is to assume you will always be behind, the opponent is always faster, and you need to stop the imminent win condition from finishing you off. If you assume the worst case scenario then you should only choose cards that help you come back from behind. Familiar's Ruse does not necessarily do this.This is why Mana Leak is the best counterspell available for control decks - it works when you have poor mana options(hello mutavault), are getting crushed out by rampaging cats, can counterspell almost everything. Rune Snag is almost as good.

I agree with Winterhalter. Play Essence Scatter instead of Familiar's Ruse. Essence Scatter is still a hard-coutner and works against virtually every deck in the format (save Hive Mind and Storm). If you insist on running a 1x counter, then go with Essence Scatter.

your mana base doesnt have secluded glen (faeries count is down to 13 but still potentially sustainable) and IMO needs more fetch lands. you essentially on have 7 red sources. i like more so i know ill hit it. also, why blood crpyt? i suggest

Sorry, typo. My list is 4x Glen and not 4x River of Tears. River is gone, because of the T1 Vision factor. I have found that I consistently have access to my colors if I plan it. I want extra Islands because of 3 mana red enchantments.

i still think you are way too light on the red sources. after board you have 7 red cards and 7 red sources. im playing 6 black cards in my sideboard and i have 15 black sources. you got to be able to cast your spells at the right time.

by the way, i like your maindeck spells. looks good.

Last edited by jdoucette24 on Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:57 pm; edited 1 time in total