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Mike Mullen to Martin Dempsey: A generational shift for the Joint Chiefs of Staff

The change caps both the takeover and the transformation of America’s military. |
John Shinkle/POLITICO
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The son of a Hollywood publicist, Mullen “sort of breaks the mold” of post-Vietnam War leadership exemplified by Gen. Colin Powell, the first Joint Chiefs chairman from among those who served as young officers in Vietnam, Nagl said. Powell, the nation’s top military officer during the 1990-91 Gulf War, was known for the doctrine bearing his name that suggests the U.S. should only commit military force in situations where the objectives are clearly defined and supported by political leaders.

The Powell Doctrine came out of the painful experience of seeing the armed forces — particularly the Army — shattered by eight years of futile combat in Southeast Asia and the loss of public support at home. Vietnam was a counterinsurgency that went bad, and leaders who survived the conflict wanted to avoid similar ones in the future, said Andrew Krepinevich, executive director of the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments and author of “The Army and Vietnam.”

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“There was I would say an effort at collective amnesia,” he said.

]The Gulf War, officially known as Operation Desert Storm, reinforced the lesson for Powell and the generation of leaders who came after him, Nagl said.
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Desert Storm was the kind of war that Powell envisioned — a decisive war against another state actor with a defined resolution,” he said. “The military they built was designed for just that kind of war,” but “it wasn’t the kind of military we needed after Sept. 11.”

When U.S. forces were faced with new insurgencies in Afghanistan and Iraq, particularly after the initial success in driving Saddam Hussein from power, “we had to relearn what we had forgotten at the end of the Vietnam conflict,” Krepinevich said.

Nagl, one of many young Army officers mentored by Petraeus and who co-wrote the Army’s current counterinsurgency manual with him, said the generation of leaders forged in Vietnam “failed to take into account that the world changed” and that non-state actors such as Al Qaeda could pose a serious threat to U.S. security.

But, drawing from his own combat experience, he noted that they were not completely wrong. “I’d rather fight three Desert Storms than do another year of Al Anbar in 2004,” he said.

With China rising as a world power and other possible threats on the horizon, Dempsey and his generation will have to ensure that the military doesn’t lose sight of conventional conflicts even as insurgencies remain a feature of the world scene in the foreseeable future, Nagl said.

“We’ve really got our work cut out for us and the Dempsey generation is going to have to find a balance between preserving our counterinsurgency capabilities and increasing our operations on the air and sea,” he said. If those efforts fail, “our enemies will seek out our weaknesses.”

Dempsey and his cohorts will also have to ensure that the all-volunteer force which replaced Vietnam-era draftees is taken care of, Mullen said.

“We have the most combat-hardened force since then, and these last 10 years have been extraordinarily tough on them,” he said. “It’s absolutely vital for the future that we find a way to retain that talent and that expertise. Their combat experience is different from earlier generations, but it is no less instructive or meaningful both in their lives and in the type of leadership they exude.”

CORRECTION: An earlier version of this story incorrectly noted that Gen. Martin Dempsey’s first combat experience was in Iraq in 2003. He also served in combat in the Gulf War.

Army Gen. Martin Dempsey, 59, his successor, graduated from West Point in 1974, joining a force that was deeply scarred from having just lost the Vietnam war.

I wish you liberals would get it right. The U.S. military and those who honorably served during the Vietnam war didn't loose the Vietnam war. The U.S. military was never defeated, it prevailed during every battle fought in South Vietnam.

The Vietnam war was lost on the streets of America by those who stabbed the American soldier in the back while we were still on the battlefields of Vietnam. Those same people who gave aid and comfort to our enemies are today's liberals / progressives who control the Democrat Party of today. The same Democrat Party who surrendered to Communist expansion in the early 1970's and refused to continue the war against Communist expansion known as the Cold War.

The left wings revisionist history has gone on far enough. It was the American left who surrendered and lost the war in Vietnam. Traitors like Hanoi Jane Fonda, leftist cowards like Tom Haden and Obama's buddy the terrorist Bill Ayres.

No American conservative ever spat upon an American soldier. Liberals can't make such a claim about themselves.

Militarily we had won the war. The North Vietnamese were ready to surrender but when they saw that we were political idiots they just played a political war and won the political war while losing the military war.

Fifty eight thousand American men died because we did not have the political backbone to make sure that these men did not die in vain.

I am a Vietnam era vet and I will never forgive this country for the treatment that we received for simply doing the job that our country asked us to do!

So I salute all those who helped waste 58,000 American lives.

No the military has not really changed they are just really tired of becoming cannon fodder for politicans who talk big and then crawl into a hole and pull the dirt over top of themselves.

Dempsey knows there is a way but he is smart enough to know he would be whizzing into the wind, so Generals are like all politicans look out for their interests first.

I wish you liberals would get it right. The U.S. military and those who honorably served during the Vietnam war didn't loose the Vietnam war. The U.S. military was never defeated, it prevailed during every battle fought in South Vietnam.

Army Gen. Martin Dempsey, 59, his successor, graduated from West Point in 1974, joining a force that was deeply scarred from having just lost the Vietnam war.

Good job Admiral. Now please hand General Dempsey a copy of "Washington Rules: American's Path to Permanent War" by Andrew J. Bacevich. General Dempsey, read it!

"En route to Baghdad, confiding in a receptive Washington Post reporter, Petraeus posed what prove to be the most elusive yet emblematic question of the decade: "Tell me how this ends?"' - Andrew J. Bacevich

What about Tet of 68 ? The biggest defeat of the VC and NVA. Right after North Vietnam's defeat, is when Gen. Giap, Commander of all NVA forces in conference with Ho Chi Minh discussed a conditional surrender with the United States and RVN. Yes, the North was ready to surrender after the biggest military defeat since the beginning of the war known as Tet Offense of 1968. But when they saw the demonstrations on the streets in America they had second thoughts and came to the conclusion that they could still win the war, the people on the streets of America would win the war for them.

What about Khe Sanh ? Now I might have just missed out on being at the siege of Khe Sanh by some months since I wasn't in-country yet. But when I arrived in-country I was assigned to 1/13. If you are saying that the 26th Marines and 1/13 were defeated, how could I have served with 1/13 and have been attached to 1/26 and 2/26 ?

The Battle for Khe Sanh, where 30,000 NVA troops surrounded 6,000 U.S. Marines. By the end of the battle, 15,000 of the 30,000 NVA would be dead NVA. In the end, 200 Marines were KIA and 800 wounded. The Americans had a 75 to 1 kill ratio. Even to this day, I haven't been able to figure out how the brain of liberals work. Could you explain why you consider that the Marines at Khe Sanh were defeated ? Please explain. I'm sure your answere will also explain why liberals would vote for a community organiser.

This liberal revisionist history is out of control. Is this what liberals are teaching our children in school ?

"better review your battle history" ??? Guess what, been there done that. I was part of that history, I lived it.

Silly me, I thought it was Nixon who ordered the pullout. Or maybe it was Ford. Both Republican Presidents, as you may remember.

Yes, silly you, lefty idiot. Nixon drew down US forces because of domestic opposition, but maintained support for the South Vietnamese government and military. The leftist dominated Democrat controlled Congress cut off the funding to the South Vietnamese government leading to its collapse before an all-out mechanized assault by the Soviet backed North Vietnamese military. The collapse of South Vietnam led to communist hegemony in SE Asia and millions of deaths. The US Left has much to be proud of.

Army Gen. Martin Dempsey, 59, his successor, graduated from West Point in 1974, joining a force that was deeply scarred from having just lost the Vietnam war.

I wish you liberals would get it right. The U.S. military and those who honorably served during the Vietnam war didn't loose the Vietnam war. The U.S. military was never defeated, it prevailed during every battle fought in South Vietnam.

The Vietnam war was lost on the streets of America by those who stabbed the American soldier in the back while we were still on the battlefields of Vietnam. Those same people who gave aid and comfort to our enemies are today's liberals / progressives who control the Democrat Party of today. The same Democrat Party who surrendered to Communist expansion in the early 1970's and refused to continue the war against Communist expansion known as the Cold War.

The left wings revisionist history has gone on far enough. It was the American left who surrendered and lost the war in Vietnam. Traitors like Hanoi Jane Fonda, leftist cowards like Tom Haden and Obama's buddy the terrorist Bill Ayres.

No American conservative ever spat upon an American soldier. Liberals can't make such a claim about themselves.

that's a nice screed on how the US lost the war. vietnam was every bit about war profiteering then as the 2003 iraq invasion and occupation. get off the battlefield Gyrine and take a look behind the war machine and you'll find the roots of the same corporate capitalist that continued to profit in iraq that are today's establishment republicans and conservatives- the folk who got their sons out of the draft via the peace corps, national guard and various other means. the same folk all gung-ho to go into iraq but not bring the draft back, the same conservatives that questioned the patriotism of fellow americans when wanting to bring an end to the occupation of iraq- what so noble bout that? i take no issue with your disdain for how our troops were received returning home- i'm 3rd generation Marine, my oldest brother got jacked up pretty bad in nam, he wasn't drafted either. that the american people got tired of the carnage, the endless pouring of tax dollars into vietnam is no excuse. just spare me the politicking screeds when you're talking about war and how liberals this that and the other cause i can guarantee there's some "conservatives" behind the machine making bank while shielding their own- that would include the cold war too.

Thank you for your service, Admiral Mullen. I appreciate your efforts to lead the United States Military in difficult, confusing times. I hope you have a peaceful, enjoyable retirement and that you continue to take pride in your many accomplishments serving your country. Respectfully, ADT.

I hate to be the one that poo-poo's in the pool but there are few things that need to set right before this goat rope goes any further. Desert Storm was not quite the victory that everyone wants to believe it was. When GHW declared an end to offensive operations, 1st Cavalry Division's 5th Cav. Regiment had 2 Squadron's, the 1st and the 2nd, within 50 miles of Baghdad, with 1st Squadron's scout's within 30 miles. Had GHW had the foresight, and the stones to go the distance despite all of the handwringing of the political Kumbayah crowd, Gulf 2 would never have been neccessary. 1st Cav had everything they needed to go straight thru Baghdad and put an end to all of this. Instead, GHW decided to settle for a political victory and leave Saddam to go on killing his own people and threatening the rest of us with any an all manner of WMD's, the CIA comments notwithstanding any great scrutiny. Had GHW seen the principles involved, and where they were heading even back then, and acted as a Commander in Chief as opposed to a politician, Desert Storm would have had 1st Cav, followed by the 101 Abn (Air Assault), grab all of Baghdad and grab Saddam before he even knew we were in town.

I have no doubt that a lot of you would be screaming about what the other Arab country's would have done. Folks, look at the Middle East right now and really think about it. Had we followed thru in Desert Storm then, the Middle East now would have happened 10 years ago. The immediate aftermath of grabbing Baghdad would have been a bit of a mess politically, but given Saddam's history and potential, does anyone really believe that any Arab country was really gonna complain, much less do anything, about us and the rest of the Western Coalition removing, permanently, the single biggest threat to both the whole of the Middle East ? The Saudi's weren't, and have more than said so in any number of ways. The whole of the Middle East, even Syria, saw the writing on the wall and sent their troops. Assad my not be the brightest bulb on the Xmas tree but even he saw the benefits of a more peaceful Middle East. Of course now, looking at the news report's, he can see it again. Only this time he's getting it 1st hand. Nothing like a sneak preview of coming attractions. And he even had a close-up look courtesy of Gadaffi.

APACHERAT, I was on the perimeter before, during and after the 1968 Tet Offensive. I was an Air Force Security Police NCO (the night flight: Tiger). My base, Tuy Hoa, had the most F-100 fighter squadrons in South Vietnam. The jets that I protected from VC attack, flew numerous sorties to help my brother Marines at Khe Sanh. The "defeat" was not due to the military, it was due to the likes of Jane and her compatriot, Walter Cronkite (another Jane, only with a *****). Hang in there brother..

I must repeat this as we must remember the truth. US military forces won every major battle with the Cong or the NVA. We didn’t lose the war in Vietnam; we were not allowed to win. For that you can thank Tricky Dick Nixon and the democrats in congress.

Dempsey also is the first Army officer to take over as chairman since Gen. Hugh Shelton retired just three weeks after the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks launched the country into a decade of war.

And now…. Politico wants to make some sort of “statement” about Gen Shelton. What is with you Politico hacks? Always trying to make the military look bad, is it in the mission statement for Politico? Just for the record Gen Shelton retired after 4 years as CJCS. Which is normal, most CJCS hold the post for 4 years. Then the slap at the Army, “first Army … since Gen Shelton… three weeks…” Let’s see, what is is, something about rotating among the services? Oh, that’s right the chairmanship rotates between the services. It has been done like that for many years and look they are doing it again. But then you know that.

Hey Charlie (Charles Hoskinson) you must know how ridiculous this makes you and Politico look. Or do you really believe we are that stupid?

How's it going to feel to have your legacy in uniform summed up by your embrace of the Homo's, Mullens!?!?!?! The sooner your azz is thrown out of the military the better! Your a disgrace to the uniform you wear.

APACHERAT, I was on the perimeter before, during and after the 1968 Tet Offensive. I was an Air Force Security Police NCO (the night flight: Tiger). My base, Tuy Hoa, had the most F-100 fighter squadrons in South Vietnam. The jets that I protected from VC attack, flew numerous sorties to help my brother Marines at Khe Sanh.

Air Force Cop, I remember one day I was aboard the DaNang air base on the west side of the base where the Marines were. I was talking to this short timer and asked him "Are those air conditioning units on those air force huts ?" referring to the east side on the air base where the air force was. He said affirmative, that it was a different world over on the east side. But he said when the **** hits the fan you will see airmen grabbing a rifle and heading to the perimeter to keep Charles from crossing the wire.

Then he told me that during Tet he was at another air base and like most units during the war, they were never at full strength and when Charley attacked the base that airmen actually helped to man some of the Marines M-48 tanks and you had air force airmen manning the Browning M-2 .50 cal. heavy machine guns on top of the tanks and he said they were really getting in to it.

The last time I saw an air force F-100 was near the Chocolate Mountains gunnery and bombing range in the California desert in 1975 or 76. They were probably Air National Guard F-100's. They were flying like a hundred feet off the ground. Pretty cool, especially when they hit the after burners and took off heading almost straight up in to the sky until all you saw were these little orange balls of fire.

Vietnam, was guerilla warfare, which had essentially become "conventional tactics', which is not the same as "counterinsurgency" [If the author had selected the 3 page counterinsurgency summary instead of the 3 page High School and Higher education summary, he would know that].

While I am sure well intentioned, in Vietnam, the U.S. ordered the use of "agent orange and crop killers" to "starve the north into submission". In Afghanistan, we build agriculture, in Libya, NATO covered aid forces brought food and medicine into Tripoli twice a week (it was Moammar who turned off the Water to a city of over 2 million people). In Iraq I, we did not become an occupying force, we defended Kuwait from an invasion by a hostile foreign power. Let's not confuse the Two Wars. One began with the violation of Kuwait's territorial integrity and a threat by Sadaam Hussein to slaugther the population and burn the oil fields if the United Nations "interfered". The Team bred under Iraq I are the fathers and (one mother) of the Counter Insurgency Doctrine, which requires appropriate force, a limited duration, political and military support and development. The Counter Insurgency Strategy works best when there are defined borders, (or at least proposed ones), a forum for dialogue (regardless of if that dialogue results in a peaceful settlement, and a population that is just as interested in their "liberation" as we are.

The men and women of Vietnam, many of whom were drafted, served with honor and with valor. How they were treated when they return is the greatest sin Americans committed against their own since the Civil Rights act of 1964, which commenced the 3rd Republic of the United States was signed. Instead of blamming the politicians and technocrats who sent them there they blamed the troops, many of whom, were sent to vietnam through no fault of their own, just an inability to receive a deferral or get a visa to Canada. Ted Turner may forgive "Hanoi Jane", I do not.

Gloria Steinem is always a pleasure to hear from whether we agree or disagree on an issue.