Yeah, and supposedly it's half decent go figure. Now the problem is if you want a Beta but don't have an Alpha what are you suppose to do? Pay the marked up prices or get the Aoshima one which is a different shade of blue?

Damn, that's hot...but I can't help but mirror thomas' sentiments: no see-through visor??? If they could've pulled off Yamato's 1/60 Valk canopy trick of semi-reflective plastic, this thing would be murderous.

Eh? How see-through do you want it? As it is the effect is just like in the anime where most of the time you can't make out their faces. Any more translucent and less dense/reflective would make it look weak and cheap.

Well, that's the thing: the point of this toy is to give the ride armor a sort of more "realistic" look and feel. Hence the rational size for his booties, as opposed to the extravagant cartoon versions.

...Not to mention the more human-looking (less cartoony) face sculpt.

...Or how 'bout the more "realistic" transformation: for example, the armature for the arm armor (yeesh, that's a mouthful), instead of the anime magic approach where everything comes apart and zaps back together again in a different configuration.

Anyway, what I'd propose would be a chrome-sunglasses-look, but with a gradient. Like, at the top, it would be virtually all-chrome and almost impossible to see through. Near the bottom where his mouth is, have it still reflective, but slightly see-through so that you get a hint of his face behind the shield.

Sanjeev Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, that's the thing: the point of this toy is
> to give the ride armor a sort of more "realistic"
> look and feel. Hence the rational size for his
> booties, as opposed to the extravagant cartoon
> versions.
> ...Or how 'bout the more "realistic"
> transformation: for example, the armature for the
> arm armor (yeesh, that's a mouthful), instead of
> the anime magic approach where everything comes
> apart and zaps back together again in a different
> configuration.
>

The armatures were always part of the design. They just didn't animate it half the time. And the size of the leg armor is just what happens when the design is realized in three dimensions. Had they taken the time to work it out, they probably would be that size.

My Beta (it IS marketed as a Robotech product) arrived yesterday. It's a damn fine piece given the long road it took to get here. I saw one for sale at Frank's for $110 flat. I asked why it was so cheap and he said it was broken in one small spot out of the box.

Take that for what it's worth. Now I need to dig up my old Toynami Alpha for a photo shoot.

At first glance the lower legs are mostly metal, similar to the Alpha content.

The Toynami Beta is surprisingly rock-solid. Very heavy and well made. Nice transformation (that's actually fun). And the best part is the Alpha links up nicely in fighter and robot mode. I had my doubts whether Toynami could pull it off, after CM's total failure as far as the link-up is concerned. Now if only Toynami had released a better Alpha fighter. Some of the Alphas fall apart when you look at them funny. My blue Alpha has to stay in robot mode because the arms are broken and I had to glue them back together. The hands literally crumbled and I had to glue them as well. Too bad they can't re-tool the Alpha and use better plastics. A lot of people out there are gonna need replacement Alphas.

I just finished watching it...it shows how sturdy the toy is and how great the Alpha connection is. It woulda been nice, however, if they coulda designed just one boom for the Alpha in both modes (apparently, there's one boom for the Alpha in Fighter mode and a different one for Battloid mode)...AND designed it to telescope into the Beta instead of having it attach separately.

Still, tough to complain about something like that when the final product is so nice.

Now what we need to do is pressure Toynami to re-tool/re-release the Alpha. Fuck, I'll even settle for an all-plastic Alpha, like ShogunDan suggested in the vid. As long as it's just as sturdy as the Beta, I'm willing to sacrifice the diecast.

--
Sanjeev

'Us Massholes straight up just don't give a fuck. I still pronounce "Mazinger" as "Tranzor Z".'
-Nekrodave

Slayman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Toynami Beta is surprisingly rock-solid. Very
> heavy and well made. Nice transformation (that's
> actually fun). And the best part is the Alpha
> links up nicely in fighter and robot mode. I had
> my doubts whether Toynami could pull it off, after
> CM's total failure as far as the link-up is
> concerned. Now if only Toynami had released a
> better Alpha fighter. Some of the Alphas fall
> apart when you look at them funny. My blue Alpha
> has to stay in robot mode because the arms are
> broken and I had to glue them back together. The
> hands literally crumbled and I had to glue them as
> well. Too bad they can't re-tool the Alpha and
> use better plastics. A lot of people out there
> are gonna need replacement Alphas.

How about just re-releasing them (in different packaging or whatever to satisfy the hardcore collectors) so that those interested in the Beta can pick up the Alpha too? Improvements would be nice, but I'm surprised they've missed this opportunity. I'm not getting the robotech shadow ones just to link with a beta...

They made the original run numbered for a reason. Going back and making more violates that in some form and could be actionable. The possible way around it is like the Voltron set. The original diecast run was numbered and limited, the follow-up run was plastic so it was technically a different release free from breaching the agreement with buyers of the limited set. Using that as precedent, a new run of Alphas in plastic or modified in some obvious manner would count as a new release.

How that factors into their deal with Aoshima is unknown, they distribute them I believe, so cross promoting a Robotech toy alongside a Mospeada toy with some differences - but at heart the same toy - seems unlikely in any but the strongest of economic conditions.

The clincher is how the new shadow fighter is. If it's improved to the level of the Beta then that opens up some questions, if it's a hodge-podge of leftover parts with a paint job (which it probably is) then it means you're either going to track down an original, accept the color difference of the Aoshimas, or wait and see what happens.

I think we'd all like a new Alpha at the same level of the Beta, but how they would go about it is unclear. The issues with the Alpha were mostly QC related, but some were from manufacture issues. Could a manufacture and QC improvement be all that is needed to fix it, or does a redesign need to be done?

Another possibility is a PVC set of a fighter and battroid for docking. Ironically similar to an idea that was floated for the Beta as an add-on that didn't transform and was merely for show. Anyone try the super poseable Alpha to see if it fits. Mine is buried but I seem to recall it was very close to the size of the MP.

> Now what we need to do is pressure Toynami to
> re-tool/re-release the Alpha. Fuck, I'll even
> settle for an all-plastic Alpha, like ShogunDan
> suggested in the vid. As long as it's just as
> sturdy as the Beta, I'm willing to sacrifice the
> diecast.

Actually, I'd be TOTALLY willing to sacrifice the diecast. If the Toynami Alpha is anything at all like the Aoshima release, then all plastic would be a serious boon to the item's stability. Of course, the hands bite, the connections (or lack thereof) bite, the posability of the hips is atrocious, and the head doesn't even come close to staying put in robot mode. I'd suggest an all-plastic Alpha, made from sturdier materials than the model-grade plastic the Aoshima has (dunno about the Toynami), with some added engineering to make parts clip together better because the "original" is floppy floppy floppy.

Just swapping out materials when the mold is problematic isn't going to do much for the toy. Maybe if the Beta and Beagle 1/10 do really well, they can see the value of commissioning real pros (Beagle?) to remake the Alpha. Call it a Masterpiece Pro or whatever and watch the money roll in.

Yeah, it wasn't metal that killed the alpha. But I think Toynami's proven they can design good toys. They just ought to start over from scratch with the Alpha and re-do the whole thing. I don't see it happening, though. We'll have to be satisfied with the Toynami Alpha we've got. It's not as horrible as some make it out to be.

Of the six masterpiece and two Aoshima releases I have, none are as bad as the stories I've heard. While a few of them have small imperfections in terms of fit and finish, It's nothing I haven't seen in other Japanese products from time to time. The Alpha is arguably the worst since it's the most complex in terms of features, but if you want something to hang of the end of the beta, it does the job well enough.

I'm guess that the Toynami far outshines the Aoshima. Fit and finish on mine are by far the worst of any "modern" gokin toy I've owned, and it doesn't come close to matching the horror stories I've heard about it.

I read somewhere (totally heresay so have a few grains of salt on hand) that when Aoshima went to make their Legioss run, it was rushed to be out by the holidays. The factory they contracted to do this is the reason they ended up worse than even the Toynami run on a ratio of good:bad pieces produced.

While the Beta is a great piece, it's different enough from the CM's that if you still want/have both you can display them. The anime accuracy of the Toynami is suspect in areas, but so is the CM's in others. This is partly due to the Beta/Tlead being an afterthought to the anime and having a somewhat hurried design, combined with haphazard animation that has things changing from scene to scene at times and we get back to how much leeway the Beta/Tlead can be given due to the lack of reference material.

Probably the biggest omission is the pop up missile bays above the chest. It was in the show and really seems odd to leave out since there isn't any visible reason to leave them out in terms of structure or complexity. The lack of a pvc ride armor is a bit of a letdown too. The Alpha had a stowed version which was a nice touch, but the CM's extra ride armor figures gave a little more sense of scale and display factor.

So don't count out the CM's yet, it's price has come down quite a bit recently, so be on the lookout for bargains. It may have been too much several months ago, but with a decent competitor on the market people looking to unload one will be more apt to take a loss to recoup some cash.

Got mine yesterday, pretty much everything I've wanted in a DX Ride Armor. The only things I'd like would be firing rockets, saddle bags with extra bits inside, and a completely removable riding suit with regular clothes underneath. But that's something I think would only happen in 1/6 scale and more in the realm of dream toy.

Other than that, it's damn fine and worth the wait and almost worth the price. I've seen pics of the Toynami head and while it has an odd appeal in looking like the Gakken head, I prefer the Beagle one since it's realistic styling complements the detail of the bike.

I hope Beagle continues the line to the other characters beyond Ley, as long as it doesn't take another two years. I'm guessing since the framework and basic mechanics of the Ride Armor is the same that the bulk of the work is done and it won't take as long.

Oooff! Toynami recall on the Maia Shadow? I got one of those Maia Alpha's a few weeks ago, and never bothered to post on the issues, didn't want to be the only whiner.
Main thing was the thigh seam splitting when I rotated the hip to transform. The screws just tear the thread right out of the soft diecast.

"Toynami is planning on re-manufacturing Maia Sterling later this summer with the corrections and higher quality control. The tentative plan is to have them made at the factory that manufactured the Beta Fighters."

If their Beta's nigh-perfect, maybe they can pull off an Alpha with the same standards.

--
Sanjeev

'Us Massholes straight up just don't give a fuck. I still pronounce "Mazinger" as "Tranzor Z".'
-Nekrodave

The price isn't really a discount, since that's what they sell for just about everywhere now.

I picked up both for a flat $120 at Frank n Sons some time ago, I had no problem with them in comparison to my Toynami Blue one. Some people claimed the Aoshima were worse, but since the price is about the same and if you're considering getting a Beta for them, go with the Robotech store and get the Toynami verions.