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I want change.

Been having a chat with my friends in TBG - thought I'd take it up North and get a discussion going to gauge the WWE forum's thoughts.

I am washing my hands of the re-hashing. I want WWE to at last embrace the talent they have, and for the most part; the talent they trust for the majority of the year.

I make no excuses for this thread being born out of a disinterest I have for WWE since Punk took a well-earned break. I don't begrudge him having time off, goodness knows he deserves it...but that doesn't mean I have to pretend I won't miss him. Because I do, and I will. Raw is massively less interesting to me without him. Hugely. Disproportionately. Disappointingly.

WWE have talents who I can care about. Ziggler is just amazing; he could be even better. Daniel Bryan is astonishing IMO, but they've diluted him so badly that I don't care a jot what he does with Kane. Punk should have main evented at least one, probably two Manias IMO. Orton should be incredibly over as a hated heel. The Shield are amazing, they're raw, aggressive and IMO have the only 'unknown' on the show. It's little wonder IMO we see so many Shield banners on PW - they're great, but really...what else is there to get psyched about?

Instead, because of WWE's insistence to flog the dead horse of an Attitude gone by, everything suffers. Everything feels less important.

I want WWE to forget the great stars of the past. Accept it for what it was; a pleasant memory - not the route to success. Let sleeping dogs lie. Stop flogging this dead horse. A million other metaphors.

Embrace the talent they have. Trust them. Use them. Give us Cena and Punk in a Wrestlemania main event payoff match and move the hell on.

Re: I want change.

What I want is for the WWE to start compelling rivalries and storylines for all of their wrestlers.

Antonio Cesaro, Cody Rhodes, Damien Sandow, Kofi Kingston, Zack Ryder, R Truth, Miz, Wade Barrett, Natalya, William Regal, Daniel Bryan, Justin Gabriel, and Santino Marella are all exceptional talents in my opinion, who are being given jack shit to work with. Some are lucky to get any time on the show, despite Raw being three freaking hours now!

I can fondly look back on the Attitude era, for one big reason- giving a crap about everyone. Al Snow, D-Lo Brown, X-Pac, Big Bossman, Test, Edge and Christian, Hardyz, Dudleys... if you were in the midcard, you were given something to work with. A reason for people to stay tuned throughout the show.

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My latest video- Reject Religion- music video set to "Pork and Beans" by Weezer.

Re: I want change.

That was a sensational post. That was the best post I have seen in quite some time, Froggy. And that is not me engaging in hyperbole. The stars of the past need to serve as a pleasant memory, and not as a focal point of a show. Thankfully, they keep it to just Wrestlemania time for the most part, but that's also the problem. I'm going to miss CM Punk very much as well. The program won't be the same without him. I'm fearful of disinterest as well. He deserves the break. I'm not casting any judgment on him taking a break. He definitely deserves it. This is the time where I want to truly see mid-card guys thrive on the roster and then have it pay off for them when it comes to big payoff PPV's like Summerslam and Survivor Series coming up this year. It can carry on next year to having a prominent role in the Rumble match and 1 or 2 that really rise this year can have a prominent match at Wrestlemania 30 next year. I know Vince wants to make money. That's the name of the game. Absolutely understood. But, we can't keep relying on The Rock, Taker, HHH to come save the day. Even Cena and Punk are veterans and probably aren't here for the long-term like some may think. I give major props to Triple H to recruiting lots of young, solid talent. I'm glad to see Cody Rhodes, Damien Sandow, Dolph Ziggler, Daniel Bryan, The Shield breakthrough. I just want to see it continue for the long-term.

Re: I want change.

Originally Posted by Voxtz

What I want is for the WWE to start compelling rivalries and storylines for all of their wrestlers.

Antonio Cesaro, Cody Rhodes, Damien Sandow, Kofi Kingston, Zack Ryder, R Truth, Miz, Wade Barrett, Natalya, William Regal, Daniel Bryan, Justin Gabriel, and Santino Marella are all exceptional talents in my opinion, who are being given jack shit to work with. Some are lucky to get any time on the show, despite Raw being three freaking hours now!

I can fondly look back on the Attitude era, for one big reason- giving a crap about everyone. Al Snow, D-Lo Brown, X-Pac, Big Bossman, Test, Edge and Christian, Hardyz, Dudleys... if you were in the midcard, you were given something to work with. A reason for people to stay tuned throughout the show.

Add Christian to that group and agreed. WWE has some good talent but they have their heads up in having the old, overpushed men on TV. Show some damn faith in your young talent.

Re: I want change.

Embrace the talent they have. Trust them. Use them. Give us Cena and Punk in a Wrestlemania main event payoff match and move the hell on.
Please.

And then what?

Cena wins, yet again?...Not much change there.

If you really want change you should be begging for an end to the Cena era.

Until they move on from this endless era nothing interesting will be allowed to happen and the WWE will have to continue to call on past stars in order to generate interest from those who are bored to death of the same ole Cena centered shit.

Re: I want change.

Originally Posted by BadNewsFan

And then what?

Cena wins, yet again?...Not much change there.

If you really want change you should be begging for an end to the Cena era, until they move on from this endless era nothing interesting will be allowed to happen and the WWE will have to continue to call on past stars in order to generate interest from those who are bored to death of the same ole Cena centered shit.

My post is (IMO) in the art of the possible. Removing Cena (and I wouldn't advocate that anyway) is not in the art of the possible; he's the marquee guy. He will be there, and will be a star as long as he's competing. Obviously I'd have him lose to Punk, ha! But it's naive to expect him to not be an integral part of the show.

Losing the old guard, to me, is not a naive strategy. It's something which can feasibly be done, and IMO...should be done (and should be embraced). I also really like Voxtz's post. The mid card of the attitude era was crucial on every PPV. Looking forward to personal feuds, IC title feuds, tag team feuds etc...it underpinned a rock solid main event scene. They have the bodies to do this again...they need to invest in them! Well, maybe, 'need' is wrong...but it's what I'd like.

Re: I want change.

Originally Posted by Froggy

My post is (IMO) in the art of the possible. Removing Cena (and I wouldn't advocate that anyway) is not in the art of the possible; he's the marquee guy. He will be there, and will be a star as long as he's competing. Obviously I'd have him lose to Punk, ha! But it's naive to expect him to not be an integral part of the show.

Losing the old guard, to me, is not a naive strategy. It's something which can feasibly be done, and IMO...should be done (and should be embraced). I also really like Voxtz's post. The mid card of the attitude era was crucial on every PPV. Looking forward to personal feuds, IC title feuds, tag team feuds etc...it underpinned a rock solid main event scene. They have the bodies to do this again...they need to invest in them! Well, maybe, 'need' is wrong...but it's what I'd like.

I agree with most of what you said except keeping Cena on top.

I never said he shouldn't be there but he needs to be dethroned, because after 8 long years he is now the old guard too.

People don't seem to understand this.

His reign has lasted longer than Hogan, Austin or Rock's in the WWE and it is the sole reason that many great talents will never be given a proper chance to shine.

Re: I want change.

Originally Posted by Voxtz

What I want is for the WWE to start compelling rivalries and storylines for all of their wrestlers.

Antonio Cesaro, Cody Rhodes, Damien Sandow, Kofi Kingston, Zack Ryder, R Truth, Miz, Wade Barrett, Natalya, William Regal, Daniel Bryan, Justin Gabriel, and Santino Marella are all exceptional talents in my opinion, who are being given jack shit to work with. Some are lucky to get any time on the show, despite Raw being three freaking hours now!

I can fondly look back on the Attitude era, for one big reason- giving a crap about everyone. Al Snow, D-Lo Brown, X-Pac, Big Bossman, Test, Edge and Christian, Hardyz, Dudleys... if you were in the midcard, you were given something to work with. A reason for people to stay tuned throughout the show.

I agree completely. TNA doesn't get credit for much, but I feel this is something they do so much better than the WWE. Everyone seems to get to talk on occasion and do something slightly memorable. Could you imagine a Wade Barrett who got to say something of value rather than blather about his Barrage and wrestle Random Midcard Filler Match #256432? The WWE would be so much better off for it. Nothing's hurt the WWE over the last some-odd years like needless lack of thought given to those who aren't headliners. Yes, headliners will always get the most focus. But for the card to be so disproportionate and so top heavy isn't acceptable when you have so many hours of television a week to fill and so much great talent to fill it with.

Re: I want change.

Good posts, BadNewsFan and Coco.

What I really hate too is when they just add a match to a PPV card. That just reeks of piss-poor planning IMO. They have amazing talents...they have five hours to fill a week (less the glut of commercials) on the flagship shows...so how they can ever get to a state where the PPV is not filled with matches which have been built up is utterly unforgivable.

Re: I want change.

Originally Posted by Froggy

Good posts, BadNewsFan and Coco.

What I really hate too is when they just add a match to a PPV card. That just reeks of piss-poor planning IMO. They have amazing talents...they have five hours to fill a week (less the glut of commercials) on the flagship shows...so how they can ever get to a state where the PPV is not filled with matches which have been built up is utterly unforgivable.

Yes!

Their criminal misuse of talent at Wrestlemania was prime example of this.

How the hell Fandango worked Mania instead of the likes of Cesaro, Barrett (not on the actual ppv) or Kingston, is just mind boggling.

And yes the fact that this is the same company that made Al Snow a fan favorite with only one major TV show back in 98, but now can't make barely any mid card stars now with over 6 hrs a week of TV time.

Re: I want change.

Hi all.

I truly believe change will come when Vince decides to step aside. HHH appears to be making positive changes. He unveiled the new Performance Center last week. I am a big fan of the talent from the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s. There were some amazing wrestlers from those era's; however, I know they are past their prime when it comes to the ring. I think the talent of the past has an important role in mentoring today's talent. I want to see talent who are committed to the product and storylines that put them in the same category someday as the Undertaker, and the Rock.

Re: I want change.

I wish they would dump the Heavyweight Championship and dump the US title. Just have the WWE, IC, Tag, and Divas title. Just so winning a title feels somewhat signifficant.

The entire mid card is and has been a giant fucking mess. Its just random matches going on and the talent stuck here in mid card hell like Rhodes and Sandow are nothing more than filler. These mid card matches mean so little they've just become nothing more than fast forward time.

At least when Punk was around he would break up the fast forwarding monotony. It would just be nice if certain guys felt important. Other than Punk, Cena, and maybe the Shield do any of the regular roster guys actually feel important at all? Not even the new World Heavyweight champion feels important to me which is sad. Big name guys like Ziggler, Sheamus, Orton, Bryan, Henry, and Show just feel like filler. I can't remember the last mid card feud I gave a shit about. ADR and Swagger actually wasn't to bad to watch and yes to me even though they were feuding over the World Heavyweight Championship that feud felt mid cardish.

Re: I want change.

Originally Posted by The Champ

I would also assume Triple H will continue to step back and focus more and more on the corporate stuff.

Vince should just give him the reigns now! There are hours of WWE TV week in and week out and the only show that I find remotely watchable on a regular basis is NXT....and who edits that soley without the big boss sticking his nose in? Trips.

But I agree, they are moving away from the older guys. And they've still been able to build up and give lots of time to Ziggler, Bryan, The Shield, Fandango, Sheamus etc. So I don't really agree with the stance the part timers take away from the show or take away from newer guys being pushed. I always prefer a mix of the old and the new. They just need better creative and they need to seriously do something with Cena. They're the biggest changes they can make and the one's they need to make to progress the company imo.

Re: I want change.

Originally Posted by Froggy

Good posts, BadNewsFan and Coco.

What I really hate too is when they just add a match to a PPV card. That just reeks of piss-poor planning IMO. They have amazing talents...they have five hours to fill a week (less the glut of commercials) on the flagship shows...so how they can ever get to a state where the PPV is not filled with matches which have been built up is utterly unforgivable.

I don't think that the PPV thing bothers me that much. When I'm paying for a PPV, it's generally the top matches that I expect to get time. Thus, it's the top matches I'm paying for. The rest of the card means nothing to me.

On the other hand, the PPV thing is certainly symptomatic of the problem I complained about in my last post which is killing my enjoyment of the TV shows. So if booking decent midcard PPV feuds fixes that problem, I'm all for it.

Re: I want change.

The part-time era is on its last legs IMO. As I said in the Pub, Undertaker is quite possibly finishing up at next year's WrestleMania, Rock seems content never to get in the ring again, and HHH has nothing left to do as a face (and after so many years of dedication, it will be so difficult to get people to boo him should he turn heel). I think it's nearly done.

The prospect of an in-depth product with mid-card angles and the like - that is more optimism than expectation with the quality of the current writing team. The best case scenario is that all of the above do indeed retire, and they are left with no choice but to get motivated and improve the general state of the product. Vince is attending these quarterly financial meetings essentially coasting on the success of WrestleMania and the odd PPV that Rock and the like come back for. If that ends, as I believe it so will, it will hopefully leave them no choice but to put more effort into the writing.

And let's all hang on to one shred of hope - Triple H gets more and more established as a leader of the company with every passing day.

Re: I want change.

Good post, JPC.

Too many titles is a great point. I can accept the WHC and WWE titles just about, but even then it's a bit of a nonsense when you consider how blurred the lines have become re. the brand split. An amalgamation of titles would put importance on the belts, and you do that; you get your focus on the mid card. Wade Barrett's loss to The Miz was defunct the day after Mania, and didnt even happen on the damn show. Ridiculous. Ludicrous.

Actual tag-teams have been missing for ages. Throwing teams together is kind of OK IMO, but for the love of all that is holy...if you're going to bother doing it, at least give the team a name. At least have them strive for the titles. It gets more guys on the shows as well! Absolute no-brainer.

Punk, for all that is great about him, IMO brought something incredibly basic: he brought focus. He brought purpose. You knew why he was doing things, he would explain it, and then he'd back it up in the ring. It's a known formula! Give guys a purpose. Give them a focus. The amount of filler is just ridiculous right now - I've already forgotten the undercard of Mania, and the damn PPV isn't even out on DVD yet.

Re. the Undertaker. For me; he gets a pass. Quite how he does it I'll never know, but the old boy is a freak of nature and his matches at Mania have been incredible for years. I've no wish in not seeing him on a Wrestlemania card for the time being - he's been too good to entertain that notion. I mean, you lose his match with Punk at this year's Mania and IMO you're discussing a poor show. With that match, it went up a few notches; it was sensational.

Re: I want change.

Froggy I cannot agree with you more. I am a huge Attitude Era fan and I am fully behind all of them staying off of all cards. I do also however agree with Bad News. True change will only come once Cena is dethroned.

The sad part is we had to put up with Cena main eventing all year last year when he shouldn't have and when he eventually becomes a part timer himself he will main event over the roster yet again.

At the end of the day though the true problem is all the start stop nonsense WWE does coupled with champions constantly losing non title matches. This use to be a rarity but has become so common place now it has devalued practically every title they have aside from the WWE title. The WWE title was devalued by never being in the main event scene unless Cena was there which is horseshit as well.

When you have champions consistently losing, the common wrestling fan will never get behind that guy who holds the belt. Since every midcard title holder always loses but retains no one gives a shit. It makes titles changing hands pointless since they are just going to lose non title matches anyway.