Voice Component Modeling with the Prophet Rev2

Just purchased your sound bank and in my opinion this is a must have for any Rev2 owner. I also shared your youtube video exploring overtone stability with a couple friends and they all loved. Seriously this is some excellent work and you should keep following whatever path sparks your interest because it is certainly paying dividends.

Just purchased your sound bank and in my opinion this is a must have for any Rev2 owner. I also shared your youtube video exploring overtone stability with a couple friends and they all loved. Seriously this is some excellent work and you should keep following whatever path sparks your interest because it is certainly paying dividends.

Thanks Bluesky! Glad you're enjoying the VCM patch bank!

I'm currently working on a NI Reaktor synth build... It started as a prototype of voice modeling features I wanted to test, but it has bloomed into a sort of mega-poly-synth... it's a digital version of my dream analog synth, combining favorite features from Poly Evolver, Prophet Rev2, and Moog One. (16 voice binaural stereo osc routing and amp panning, dual filter setup with flexible routing, analog style core oscillators with shape mod, digital wavetable osc option, expansive voice modeling system, super flexible LFOs, and a ridiculously huge mod matrix with tons of transform options) Once its finished, I'll post some more info about it.

I just got this too, it's really great. So many actually useful sounds, for me at least. I've been addicted to the binaural thing for a while and there are lots of those kind of patches, so I'm pretty psyched. Thanks!

I just got this too, it's really great. So many actually useful sounds, for me at least. I've been addicted to the binaural thing for a while and there are lots of those kind of patches, so I'm pretty psyched. Thanks!

Thanks Rhullings! Glad you're finding the patches useful.

Yeah, I'm a big fan of binaural stereo signal paths. That's one of my favorite aspects of Poly Evolver, and with the bi-timbral capabilities of the Rev2, you can achieve similar results - routing oscillators hard left and right.

Combined with the Voice Modeling offsets, it can result in a huge/wide stereo field with a ton of definition, or a sort of double-tracked-synth type of sound. For string and brass ensemble patches, it makes them sound much more like full orchestras.

This is an example of a Lead patch included in the Voice Component Modeling bank for the Prophet Rev2.

I'm a big progressive rock fan, and Steven Wilson / Porcupine Tree are near the top of my list. This searing prog rock lead tone is modeled after Adam Holzman's Moog Square Lead from "Regret #9" on the Hand Cannot Erase album. It uses both layers of the bitimbral Rev2 engine for a wide, binaural stereo image, and has dynamic performance modulation and built in effects. It also uses voice-modeling to give each voice and each oscillator unique offsets for a more organic, classic analog type of sound.

This is an example of a Lead patch included in the Voice Component Modeling bank for the Prophet Rev2.

I'm a big progressive rock fan, and Steven Wilson / Porcupine Tree are near the top of my list. This searing prog rock lead tone is modeled after Adam Holzman's Moog Square Lead from "Regret #9" on the Hand Cannot Erase album. It uses both layers of the bitimbral Rev2 engine for a wide, binaural stereo image, and has dynamic performance modulation and built in effects. It also uses voice-modeling to give each voice and each oscillator unique offsets for a more organic, classic analog type of sound.

Great. I love Steven Wilson/Porcupine Tree and try to watch Steven everytime he does a show in Vienna. I purchased your bank some weeks ago but didn't have the time to dig deeper but now I have got some extra motivation 🙂

I finally spent some time playing around with this. (I had been playing more with mono synths.) This really does make for richer, fuller vintage synth-type sounds. It seems like the filters react differently as well. That may be my imagination but it wouldn't surprise me since there's more harmonic content hitting the filter--sort of like the overtone effects Kevin Shields gets by using vibrato while playing.

The only drawback for me is that it eats up the gated sequencer, which I like using for synced stepped modulation. But there are some workarounds: Use Velocity as Source instead of the Sequencer and route the destination LFO Amount in the Matrix. Since invariably each strike of a key will have slightly different velocity (at least it will with my limited ability!), each note played will vary in its jitter amount. Of course it won't replicate the modeling effect of the round robining of voices pitched slightly differently. But it will provide enough richness for patches where you want to use the gated sequence for other things like notes, filter cutoff, effects, etc. So I'll probably use 2 Init presets--one for patches I plan to use without other gated sequencer modulation and one for patches in which I plan to use the gated sequencer.

Just for fun I set up a voice model where the 5th note produces no sound to model a Juno 106 with a dead voice chip!

Thanks again for the work on this and for sharing it, @creativespiral!

Hey Guyaguy, glad you got a chance to check it out! Yeah, it definitely does alter the harmonic content hitting the filter section. Technically, the VCM in the oscillator section results in a bunch of natural phasing that is present in all VCO poly synths, and acoustic ensembles. If you analyze the combined oscillator output after the osc section, but before the filter, you can see it creates more complex / less sterile waveform with movement, and all of its harmonic peculiarities.

In addition, I've found that applying VCM routings to the Filter Cutoff Destination further creates that sort of classic analog sound, as each voice's filter has slightly different cutoff position... emulating older/aged VCF chips. It's very noticeable playing chords with high resonance patches, or binaural stereo layered patches, as each voice/layer will have slight offsets in pronounced cutoff frequencies. You can also route VCM to filter envelope attack/decay, which produces a similar effect, where the moving cutoff peaks are slightly offset on a voice by voice basis. Note: the Rev2 does have VCFs, so this does occur naturally to some extent... that's why you have to re-calibrate sometimes... but if you want to really "virtually age" the Rev2 filter section, its definitely possible by routing directly to cutoff, or to attack/decay/release of the filter.

That's a good workaround to keep access to gated seq with velocity, using the fine tune scaling via mod matrix... although, the effect is extremely pronounced for very soft (ff) and and very strong (pp) strikes, even with using the minimum "1 amount" scaling trick in the matrix and counterbalancing the tuning in the osc section to medium velocity hits (mf/mp)... also, as you mentioned, it doesn't capture the voice rotation aspect. But, yeah, its a good option to have in the bag of tools!

Hey Guyaguy, glad you got a chance to check it out! Yeah, it definitely does alter the harmonic content hitting the filter section. Technically, the VCM in the oscillator section results in a bunch of natural phasing that is present in all VCO poly synths, and acoustic ensembles. If you analyze the combined oscillator output after the osc section, but before the filter, you can see it creates more complex / less sterile waveform with movement, and all of its harmonic peculiarities.

In addition, I've found that applying VCM routings to the Filter Cutoff Destination further creates that sort of classic analog sound, as each voice's filter has slightly different cutoff position... emulating older/aged VCF chips. It's very noticeable playing chords with high resonance patches, or binaural stereo layered patches, as each voice/layer will have slight offsets in pronounced cutoff frequencies. You can also route VCM to filter envelope attack/decay, which produces a similar effect, where the moving cutoff peaks are slightly offset on a voice by voice basis. Note: the Rev2 does have VCFs, so this does occur naturally to some extent... that's why you have to re-calibrate sometimes... but if you want to really "virtually age" the Rev2 filter section, its definitely possible by routing directly to cutoff, or to attack/decay/release of the filter.

That's a good workaround to keep access to gated seq with velocity, using the fine tune scaling via mod matrix... although, the effect is extremely pronounced for very soft (ff) and and very strong (pp) strikes, even with using the minimum "1 amount" scaling trick in the matrix and counterbalancing the tuning in the osc section to medium velocity hits (mf/mp)... also, as you mentioned, it doesn't capture the voice rotation aspect. But, yeah, its a good option to have in the bag of tools!

The workaround is definitely a "poor man's version"! But the way I have it set up it doesn't make the effect over pronounced (unless desired) but still provides some richness and movement. And it leaves 2 LFOs and the gated sequencer free for modulating the filter, fx, etc. From a standard Init patch it's just routing a triangle LFO 1 to pitch with amount at 1 and a s&h LFO 2 to pitch with amount to 1. In the matrix Velocity is routed to LFO 1 and 2 amount at just 1 or 2. Then LFOs 1 and 2 are routed to shape with values in the negative so it's just not duplicating what the pitch is doing even though it's using the same LFO. Or a looped EG could be used instead if it's free. But the goal was to have a richer oscillator while leaving some LFOs free. It's not as rich as the VCM method but it provides enough movement to make the sound more lively than without it. Since there are more matrix slots than LFOs and EGs I'll probably play around with other variations--Noise to Shape, LFO1 slightly modulating LFO2 time, etc. I also like degradation and warped patches so taking it further can be fun too!

Oh, I misunderstood what you were doing... Are you trying to replicate the VCO Jitter Effect, or the Voice Component Modeling?

Those are two separate avenues I explored, and both were discussed in this thread. It sounds like you're replicating the VCO Jitter? The way you described what you're doing is basically the same: (ie: Two LFOs, one triangle, one random, to osc frequency via the mod matrix scaling)

For clarity, the Voice Component Modeling (VCM) is a separate topic, which has a larger effect. I tested many classic VCO poly synths (Oberheim SEM4, OBX, OBXA, Prophet 5, Prophet 10, Korg Polysix, Yamaha CS-80, Jupiter 4, Jupiter 8 and other modern VCO synths) The primary finding I made (besides the VCO jitter), is that each voice on these classic VCO poly synths have unique offsets to Osc Tuning, Filter Behavior, and other characteristics, on a voice-by-voice, and component-by-component basis. These offsets tend to be stable, per-voice, per-component.

For example, if you measure Voice 1, Oscillator 1 of an OBX or other synth, you'll find that it has a specific tuning temperament that can be mapped across the keyboard. (the most common osc tuning behavior that I measured is an intonation based tuning offset / osc scaling offset that causes a given voice/osc to be "in tune" at a certain key, but get progressively flatter or sharper as you go up/down the keyboard. Different synths have different tendencies, and different voice allocation schemes.

It's important to note that if you keep that oscillator playing, or return to it again, it will have that same offset each time you hit it - the offsets have stability to them. They do have some high frequency jitter, but that's a different, and less noticeable aspect, at least in terms of polyphonic patches. The "perceived motion" that is heard when multiple VCO oscillators play together is "natural phasing" that is just a result of stable tuning offsets in juxtaposition with each other.

In contrast, when using Osc Slop, or LFOs, you get an artificial motion on top of that natural motion. LFOs/Slop artificially warp and swing the tuning of each oscillator, which is an un-realistic motion, if you're trying to get a classic VCO poly sound, or real acoustic ensemble. On the VCM website, I discuss this topic in further detail.

Anyways, it sounds like you may be accomplishing a sort of VCO Harmonic Jitter effect, based on how you described the your routing... I do still use this type of effect on some patches too, as it can "soften up" the harmonics. But the VCM I use on virtually all patches.

Oh, I misunderstood what you were doing... Are you trying to replicate the VCO Jitter Effect, or the Voice Component Modeling?

Oh I tried both. VCM is great for playing keys or sequencing externally. But I'm using a simplified version of your jitter effect routing for patches that use the gated sequencer. Then I add velocity to vary the mod amount just to supply some variation.

It actually works out pretty well like that because my patches using the gated seq are pretty modulation heavy and/or have a shorter decay; so the phasing and nuances probably aren't as noticeable as with pads and legato patches. Those I'm more likely to play on the keys anyhow so using the VCM keystep method works out well for that!

Glad you're enjoying Voice Modeling! Yeah, I have a few things on the horizon.

#1 - I've got a bunch of video and audio footage from my research phase for this topic - I recorded hundreds of samples from several classic synths: Oberheim OBX, OBXA, Roland Jupiter 4, Jupiter 8, Prophet 5, Prophet 10, Yamaha CS-80, Korg Polysix, MemoryMoog and several others. I've been meaning to edit it all together in a video presentation that shows the process I went through, and gives a video overview of Voice Modeling... basically a video version of the website I put together: http://www.VoiceComponentModeling.com - I think that will probably raise awareness of it. I'm really hoping that synth designers will implement it in future hardware and digital products. It greatly helps the sound of digital or DCO based synths, and even synths that are well tamed modern VCO synths could benefit from voice modeling... as it allows you to dial in the character of many classic synths. It sounds like Sequential may integrate voice modeling into future products. Chris (Pym) mentioned in this thread that he was working on it.

#2 - I've started working on a new bank of VCM patches for the Rev2... A sequel to the product I am currently selling https://sellfy.com/p/figZ/ A lot of people have purchased the current VCM bank, and the response has been really great. Thanks to everyone who has purchased, and thanks for the comments/feedback - it's very encouraging

#3 - I got into Native Instruments Reaktor a few months back, and I've been programming/wiring up a poly synth that I will be releasing, hopefully in the next few months. It started as a sort of exploration of voice modeling capabilities, but it has evolved into a fully featured digital poly synth with basically all of my favorite features from modern hardware poly synths - it takes a lot of inspiration from Evolver, Moog One, Rev2, and Super6. ie: parallel binaural stereo architecture, extensive mod matrix with tons of advanced modulation features, highly visual interface, super flexible LFOs and envelopes, an extensive digital effects section with modulation, and of course a fully featured voice modeling architecture. I'm calling it "PolyMage". Once it's complete, I will post about it on this forum and gearslutz. Here's a preview of the interface in its current state: http://www.polymagesynth.com/

I'm currently going through a house remodel / studio remodel, so I have not been able to get much progress on these items in the past couple months, but now nearing the finish line, so I'll be focused on them.

I could use some beta testers and patch designers soon for the Reaktor PolyMage synth, but would need people who have full versions of NI Reaktor 6.

1. Amazing. Looking forward to it. I really hope hardware synth makers take note, to your point, having a great analog hardware synth with the ability to change the character of it via wavetables feels like a huge breakthrough.

2. Awesome! I already bought the first volume, hopefully you finish the second. I'd be curious if people would donate to something like this via Patreon, etc. I definitely would.