tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post2537243036611684855..comments2014-05-09T13:25:02.936-05:00Comments on The Atheist Experience™: Science fiction storyMartinnoreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-73187256672191743142009-04-13T11:38:00.000-05:002009-04-13T11:38:00.000-05:00@ing,Well, I am a strict scifi fundamentalist. :)I...@ing,<BR/>Well, I am a strict scifi fundamentalist. :)<BR/><BR/>I personally view scifi as fantasy with a different motif. I suppose the Hollywood evolution thing bugs me, because it is a misinterpreted portrayal of a poorly understood scientific concept. <BR/><BR/>As for the soul catchers, and similar concepts, such as life energy, I suppose I would have suspended disbelief a little further, had the episodes/movies involving them not sucked.<BR/><BR/>Arbitrary, and inconsistent? Yes, I suppose it is.Thomashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14299046445235601258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-52847395892146172812009-04-10T19:47:00.000-05:002009-04-10T19:47:00.000-05:00Sorry for the double post but had another thought....Sorry for the double post but had another thought.<BR/><BR/>The souls in B5 and other sci-fi fantasy like Buffy or the like, never bothered me as much as the Hollywood evolution since neither show really actually implies that the souls they use are manufactored or created. They're typically treated as a preternatural yet natural (I know contradictory) phenomina that is just part of the universe. They're also never really well defined which I like since it isn't proclaiming any one religion 'right'. B5 souls seem to be just psychic imprints of the person's memories, which interestingly the last episode of season 4 showed could be recreated by a computer simulation. Buffy and Angel seem to just have it as some vague energy that may or may not even be part of the person's identity. The soul in buffy seems to be a semi 'physical' entity yet it works more like the poetic soul. Vampires don't loose their identity they're the same person and still have qualities that might be defined as human, but they have a diminished ability to empathize and moralize (ie lost their soul). Buffy then of course muddies the waters MORE by having things that SHOULD be souless being nice and morally upright folk.Inghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15677092968714424939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-65697730041812834562009-04-10T19:41:00.000-05:002009-04-10T19:41:00.000-05:00"and the parts where they imply that evolution is ..."and the parts where they imply that evolution is a ladder that eventually leads us to evolve into beings of pure energy. "<BR/><BR/>This always bothered me to. But I and my friends reconciled it with the "fanon" that the Vorlons and future human's "energy forms" are just that they've advanced so much technologically that they've formed symbiotic merging with nanites to give them abilities that appear to be supernatural. <BR/><BR/>Hence, we saw the Vorlon's true form of the energy dragon cloud as a swarm of airborn nanobots. <BR/><BR/>So I guess you can say that we reconcile the show with reality and science rather than taking a literal fundamentalist interpretation ;)Inghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15677092968714424939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-8779136592001095712009-04-10T14:00:00.000-05:002009-04-10T14:00:00.000-05:00B5 was a much better series than DS9. My only crit...B5 was a much better series than DS9. <BR/><BR/>My only criticism of DS9 was the stuff about "soul catchers", and the parts where they imply that evolution is a ladder that eventually leads us to evolve into beings of pure energy. Most scifi takes the approach that evolution is basically Santa Clause, (it will eventually give you everything you want). That is about as fallacious as you can get.<BR/><BR/>Of course, I say that in the same way one can say "I liked Tolkien, but Hobbits aren't real". Suspend disbelief and it is still an excellent series.Thomashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14299046445235601258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-30080334348883870132009-04-10T04:33:00.000-05:002009-04-10T04:33:00.000-05:00@Ing-I did prefer Babylon 5 to DS9 for many reason...@Ing-I did prefer Babylon 5 to DS9 for many reasons, including the one you mentioned. It was also more fun.<BR/><BR/>I am such a geek.Guillaumehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12376749604845793465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-7808456088153652042009-04-09T14:23:00.000-05:002009-04-09T14:23:00.000-05:00Which in my opinion is why DS9 failed in its rival...Which in my opinion is why DS9 failed in its rivalry to Babylon 5. B5 despite having semingly supernatural events and beings...really portayed all of them as natural phenomina. The Vorlons were basically the premise by which all stories of gods came from, telepathy is treated as just a relatively newly discovered natural phenomena, and there's never really any true gods that show up at all...<BR/><BR/>The closest was the Halloween episode (written by Neil Gaiman) which was more just a Twilightzone WTF was that, episode than any real statement on the afterlife.<BR/><BR/>The main conflict also ended with mortals telling the God races to piss off and let them control their own destiny.Inghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15677092968714424939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-61478276295213561252009-04-09T11:45:00.000-05:002009-04-09T11:45:00.000-05:00@Thomas-There were some interesting ethical questi...@Thomas-There were some interesting ethical questions raise in ST about all-powerful beings, which are rarely benevolent (even the Prophets were pictured at the beginning as indifferent towards everyone, at best). But nevertheless, the atheist/naturalist atitude St had was messed up big time in the latest seasons of DS9: not only did the Prophets became some kind of benevolent deus ex machina (literally), but Dukhat did use magic/witchcraft to free the Pah Wraiths. They plainly threw in the irrational, probably because it was more convenient plot-wise.Guillaumehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12376749604845793465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-29404376231710584912009-04-09T11:36:00.000-05:002009-04-09T11:36:00.000-05:00@GuillameIt was the Pah Wraiths. (Think, wraith as...@Guillame<BR/>It was the Pah Wraiths. (Think, wraith as in ghost). That is one of the problems of Star Trek. They have the Q-coninuum, which is basically a race of gods, and the prophets, and then dismiss them as just other species from some other dimension. <BR/><BR/>George Smith wrote that the word supernatural is, by definition, an oxymoron, because, if such powers existed, they would either have a mechanism, or be a law of nature. Either way, they wouldn't be considered "magic". <BR/><BR/>I think it is interesting because it really raises a question of "So, he's immortal and can do magic...He's still a prick. Why should we worship him?"<BR/><BR/>DS9's problem is that they portrayed federation employees (with the exception of Sisco), taking that attitude toward the "wormhole aliens", and bajorans treating them as gods. It was as if they were saying "Might makes right for Bajorans", and that's ok. It's just another worldview.Thomashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14299046445235601258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-14036477169288011182009-04-09T04:44:00.000-05:002009-04-09T04:44:00.000-05:00@Ing-I agree, but even ST had moments when they fe...@Ing-I agree, but even ST had moments when they felt into the paranormal (a huge mistake when it happened). I am thinking especially of the last episodes of DS9 when Ghul Dukhat freed the Pa Rays (spelling?) using spells/witchcraft. Granted, you could have rationalized it, as they usually do when a phenomenon is seemingly of supernatural nature, but they did not. It was a slap in the face of the whole premisse of Star Trek (and it really bugged me).Guillaumehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12376749604845793465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-14396367341369653572009-04-08T13:57:00.000-05:002009-04-08T13:57:00.000-05:00I know Roddenberry was, and it certainly shows in ...<EM>I know Roddenberry was, and it certainly shows in the series, although it gets sometimes inconsistent</EM><BR/><BR/>Guillaume, Star Trek TOS had an episode that took place on a planet with a Roman Empire type society with 20th century technology. There were a persecuted group called Children of the Sun, until the end, when Lt. Uhura makes the connection and tells Kirk they're really Children of the Son, in that they are Jesus worshippers, to which Kirk responds by musing rhapsodically, "Imagine, being there when it happened."Tommykeyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14751182125861177379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-10909415518377669432009-04-08T13:22:00.000-05:002009-04-08T13:22:00.000-05:00I think sci-fi writers and in some cases fans are ...I think sci-fi writers and in some cases fans are more likely to be atheists because they can imagine seemingly fantastic things without a God behind it.<BR/><BR/>take Star Trek for instance, since there are entities like Qs or other god like aliens, that puts even MORE doubt on the claims of christ or muhhamid since all of their 'miracles' could have been alien technology or Q pranks.Inghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15677092968714424939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-38598976281644938842009-04-08T13:19:00.000-05:002009-04-08T13:19:00.000-05:00I think what most people miss is that Orwell seemi...I think what most people miss is that Orwell seemingly didn't see the difference between worshiping the martyr Jesus and worshiping the martyred severed head of old major.<BR/><BR/>Remember only the guilty have fear of Old Major.Inghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15677092968714424939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-80073707649670918632009-04-08T07:53:00.000-05:002009-04-08T07:53:00.000-05:00@AmberKatt-Sorry, but I couldn't get through the t...@AmberKatt-Sorry, but I couldn't get through the technobabble, the recycled plots and the inconsistencies anymore. I am not saying that the franchise was (is?) all bad, I still think there were some brilliant episodes, I still appreciate them when I see them on reruns, but I ceased to be a trekkie. Call me an apostate...;-)<BR/><BR/>Anyway, back on topic (sort of), anybody else noticed that renonwned atheist sci-fi writers like HG Wells and George Orwell often had their works totally twisted by theists when they get adapted, or simply when their works are used as an argument? Orwell especially receives a terrible treatment: his 1984 was a strong disavow or religion and faith and yet conservative Christians often mention Big Brother or 1984 when they try to picture a Godless society. They fail to see that Oceania is actually a place where God (as Big Brother is a de facto deity) is ever present, worship is the perfect form of repression and moral, ethic or empathy are because of this dead.Guillaumehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12376749604845793465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-88477549473866368762009-04-08T06:05:00.000-05:002009-04-08T06:05:00.000-05:00All this talk of magnetic mines reminds me of the ...All this talk of magnetic mines reminds me of the scene from Val Kilmer's 'Top Secret'. <BR/><BR/>He throws the lever on the magnetic mine and it drags an entire submarine from the Straits of Gibraltar straight into the lab.<BR/><BR/>Props for the alien metaphor Kazim. I'll have to use it in the future.Gavhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09996944574949965319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-40529123027391251702009-04-08T04:42:00.000-05:002009-04-08T04:42:00.000-05:00Guillaume: "Oh, and I grew out of Star Trek ages ...<I>Guillaume: "Oh, and I grew out of Star Trek ages ago."</I><BR/><BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/funny-pictures-farting-kitten.jpg" REL="nofollow">Hey, Guillaume!</A>AmberKatthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18288659650941053065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-25651623102631475952009-04-08T04:18:00.000-05:002009-04-08T04:18:00.000-05:00@Kazim-I know Roddenberry was, and it certainly sh...@Kazim-I know Roddenberry was, and it certainly shows in the series, although it gets sometimes inconsistent (the Vulcans have a soul, Qs are virtually gods, although not benevolent ones, and didn't the TOS crew met the Gods of Olympus or something?). I was just observing. I wonder if it simply illustrates that most atheists came to atheism through science. I must be an exception, as I came to atheism through literature. Oh, and I grew out of Star Trek ages ago.Guillaumehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12376749604845793465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-51457946840700835282009-04-07T23:01:00.000-05:002009-04-07T23:01:00.000-05:00Kazim:I think we transmit a virus to their central...Kazim:<BR/><I>I think we transmit a virus to their central computer using Mac OS 7.</I><BR/><BR/>Dan Simmons once did a wonderful deconstruction of the idiocy in "Independence Day" by using an analogy similar to yours.<BR/><BR/>In his version, the US needs to invade a tiny Pacific atoll for whatever reason. But instead of lobbing cruise missiles over the horizon, they bring in the 7th fleet and land it on the beach of the atoll. To coordinate the attack, they use the islanders' smoke-signal system against them. I think the islanders eventually brought out a WWI-era boat and attacked the admiral's command ship.arensbhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15251547886605570242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-60501176905719191872009-04-07T22:55:00.000-05:002009-04-07T22:55:00.000-05:00We know that the aliens have interstellar-travel t...We know that the aliens have interstellar-travel technology, as well as advanced weapons, so presumably they can mine their own asteroids for any minerals they need and not have to schlep them from Earth, and robot factories to build anything they can design.<BR/><BR/>So the obvious question is, WTF do they want human slaves for? Is it perhaps a status symbol in their culture to maintain an expensive, unreliable, and fragile work force?arensbhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15251547886605570242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-82278127945417446912009-04-07T22:22:00.000-05:002009-04-07T22:22:00.000-05:00What I've always wondered is, don't the aliens hav...What I've always wondered is, don't the aliens have anything better to do? If they're that superior to the puny human race with better tech, morals, and everything else, what gain is there in coming all the way across the galaxy here to this little planet way out in the corner of ass just to screw with humanity?<BR/><BR/>Substitute God for the aliens and the question still remains in my mind. What makes us so special to warrant that kind of attention?<BR/>Pretty petty to get so riled up about such an insignificant blob of beings....<BR/>LSlshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17901508236729383702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-29983453918234047692009-04-07T21:50:00.000-05:002009-04-07T21:50:00.000-05:00Goodbye, and thanks for all the fish!Goodbye, and thanks for all the fish!Maurohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08598784025003672866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-56153181932787063412009-04-07T17:52:00.000-05:002009-04-07T17:52:00.000-05:00If you add a little anal probing you get the Catho...If you add a little anal probing you get the Catholic church...Supernauthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17796435592635698280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-46189789632154097982009-04-07T17:01:00.000-05:002009-04-07T17:01:00.000-05:00Urg, Kazim. Battlefield Earth? I watched that movi...Urg, Kazim. Battlefield Earth? I watched that movie with commentary by Mike Nelson, Bill Corbett, and Kevin Murphy and it was just barely watchable even with the MST3K guys.<BR/><BR/>No, it's from Harry Turtledove's World War series, where aliens called The Race invade Earth during World War II, thinking we were a bunch of sword swinging barbarians because of images a probe sent back from the year 1200 CE (or around there).<BR/><BR/>GALAXY QUEST! I knew I've seen that before! That movie was awesome.AtheistUnderMaskhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15835169901704552498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-54370711546152023382009-04-07T16:56:00.000-05:002009-04-07T16:56:00.000-05:00Well, shouldn't they be? Gene Roddenberry was an ...Well, shouldn't they be? <A HREF="http://www.celebatheists.com/index.php?title=Gene_Roddenberry" REL="nofollow">Gene Roddenberry was an atheist.</A>Kazimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05324968314168283095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-11756948230051814522009-04-07T16:54:00.001-05:002009-04-07T16:54:00.001-05:00Reading those comments, I am wondering if all athe...Reading those comments, I am wondering if all atheists are/were Star Trek fans...Guillaumehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12376749604845793465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-29993540376276703792009-04-07T16:54:00.000-05:002009-04-07T16:54:00.000-05:00Reading those comments, I am wondering if all athe...Reading those comments, I am wondering if all atheists are/were Star Trek fans...Guillaumehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12376749604845793465noreply@blogger.com