As much as Eric Mangini has tried to change the culture in Cleveland, one of his biggest challenges now is changing the mind of Browns defensive tackle Shaun Rogers.

Rogers has grown so disenchanted with the situation in Cleveland that he has asked the Browns not to pick up the $6 million option-bonus payment due to him next month, a source close to the defensive tackle said. Rogers would rather be released after one season with the Browns, despite still being owed another $15 million in guaranteed money.

The Browns said Rogers hasn't asked them to be released.

Cutting Rogers would be difficult to do financially. If the Browns release Rogers, they would have to count more than $9.7 million against their salary cap.

Cleveland has no intention of getting rid of Rogers. It wants him back as the productive team member he was last season, when he was selected to the Pro Bowl. Browns coach Eric Mangini, according to those within the Cleveland organization, is still optimistic that he can change Rogers' mind once the two men speak. Mangini is said to have recently reached out to Rogers. Those who know Rogers say his mind will not be changed.

But Mangini has had success in these types of settings. When he arrived in New York as the Jets' coach in 2006, wide receiver Laveranues Coles was, at best, a skeptic, but Mangini eventually won him over.

Mangini has said publicly that when change occurs, as it did in Cleveland, there is uncertainty and that can create misunderstandings like the one that has happened now.

Some of Rogers' feelings stem back to two offseason incidents in which he believes Mangini disrespected him. The first time, Mangini walked into the Browns' training room and failed to say hello to Rogers. The next time, at a public charity function in which both men were in the green room, neither said hello to the other, and Mangini later said he didn't know Rogers was there.

"Anytime someone new comes in, there's a process of getting to know that person," Mangini said Feb. 4. "I feel really comfortable with who I am and the things I do. I know that everything is done for a very specific reason and that is to give us the best chance to win. I feel really good about the relationships that I had in New York with the players there. I think that the things that they have said are things I feel really good about. I anticipate having those same types of relationships here."

The Browns believe that, once Rogers hears out Mangini, the same will occur. The situation will be soothed over, hard feelings will dissipate and Cleveland will have a happy defensive tackle.

"I didn't realize Shaun was there at the time," Mangini said earlier this offseason of the green-room incident. "I know it's probably hard to believe considering how big he is and how big I am. I feel really good about watching him on tape. I always appreciate 360-pound nose guards. He's powerful, disruptive, has a high motor, and I’m looking forward to that."

Some believe there are other reasons driving Rogers' desire to leave the Browns. But before the situation is resolved, Mangini will have his say with the player whose mind he now must change.

C'mon guys, he's about to watch Albert Haynesworth get a potential $100 million contract, the team is maybe a c-hair better than Detroit in terms of competence, and the coach has twice blown the guy off. What would you do if you were in his situation? Remember, he didn't grow up here so pretend we are not talking about a team with Orange helmets for a minute before you answer. Gimme one good reason why he would want to be here right now.

I know people are upset right now and so am I but we aren't going to release him. He would be traded and probably for a first round pick. This is terrible news though because it shows sign of weakness in the new management. I do believe the Browns will fix this and he will be starting for us in 09 but still a bad start to the season.

Mangini needs to connect with his players. He already had his learning experience in NY and this team around he is suppose to be different. I see a lot more things like this happening this off season. I am not excited for next coming season like I was last year and I have no optimism at all. This is a rebuilding year for the Cleveland Browns. That is what usually happens when you sign a new coach.

Mangini recently reached out to Rogers, according to the report. And a source within the Browns organization told Schefter that Mangini is still optimistic he can sway Rogers once they speak. But sources close to Rogers say he won't change his mind.

The report says some believe there are other reasons why Rogers wants to leave the Browns, but didn't specify.

Let's see... this comes out 2 days before Free Agency begins... and Rogers just had a Pro Bowl season... hmmmmm... I can't seem to work out what those other reasons might be.

I don't believe for one second that Rogers is THAT big a crybaby. His agent's got dollar signs in his eyes.

It doesn't matter. The Browns own his soul. Try to smooth it over. If that doesn't work, screw 'im. He wants to get paid - he'll show up for work.

Honestly, if Shaun Rogers played in the 60's or 70's, and said that he wanted off the team because the coach didn't pay enough attention to him, what do you think his teammates would say? They'd laugh harder at him than at a framed Asia poster.

Reminds me of a little speech from a movie...

Are you crying? Are you crying? ARE YOU CRYING? There's no crying! THERE'S NO CRYING IN BASEBALL! Rogers Hornsby was my manager, and he called me a talking pile of pigshit. And that was when my parents drove all the way down from Michigan to see me play the game. And did I cry? NO. And do you know why? Because there's no crying in baseball. THERE'S NO CRYING IN BASEBALL! No crying!

If the Browns release him and take that cap hit, I might lose it. Screw him. He is under contract and making a ton of money. What is he... a high school girl....mad because someone didn't say hi to him. Give me a fucking break.

If he wants to be a baby, I would let his fat ass sit on the bench and pay him all year. This organization can't let players determine when they get traded or released.

It looks like what they said about him in Detroit may be true. He had a great season last year and now he wants a new contract ? If he doesn't get a new deal he will probably be a sulking pile of blubber. How many years does he have before he turns into a more expensive version of Ted Washington ? This is just his agent's way of trying to cash in on on one " great " season. It was probably his career year. If they continue to push the issue, his trade value is probably at it's zenith. I don't want to deal him, but he may be showing his true colors. We don't need any more soap operas. Honor your contract Shaun.

You take Shaun Rogers out of this defense and it becomes so incomprehensibly bad that there would not be strong enough superlatives to describe it.

Yes, I agree, the dude has a contract and should shut his pie hole and come ready to work his ass off when minicamp starts.

That said, Mangini should have reached out to this cat. He's a defensive coach. Rogers is by far our best defensive player. How has he not reached out to him? Especially with Rogers reputation for being a flake. ManKok should have taken Lerner's jet out to his house with a couple girls on each arm and a side of beef for him. Like the first week they were on the job.

Take the side of the player, take the side of the coach. It's all moot. The coach needs to make this right.

"It's like dating a woman who hates you so much she will never break up with you, even if you burn down the house every single autumn." ~ Chuck Klosterman on Browns fans relationship with the Browns

Swerb wrote:You take Shaun Rogers out of this defense and it becomes so incomprehensibly bad that there would not be strong enoough superlatives to describe it.

Yes, I agree, the dude has a contract and should shut his pie hole and come ready to work his ass off when minicamp starts.

That said, Mangini should have reached out to this cat. He's a defensive coach. Rogers is by far our best defensive player. How has he not reached out to him? Especially with Rogers reputation for being a flake. ManKok should have taken Lerner's jet out to his house with a couple girls on each arm and a side of beef for him. Like the first week they were on the job.

Take the side of the player, take the side of the coach. It's all moot. The coach needs to make this right.

A side a beef and two girls. That is my idea of surf and turf

This is the first real test of the new administration. They need to make the big man happy. He is all we have on that side of the ball. A dominating nose tackle in a 3-4 should be Mangini's wet dream.

Swerb wrote:You take Shaun Rogers out of this defense and it becomes so incomprehensibly bad that there would not be strong enoough superlatives to describe it.

Yes, I agree, the dude has a contract and should shut his pie hole and come ready to work his ass off when minicamp starts.

That said, Mangini should have reached out to this cat. He's a defensive coach. Rogers is by far our best defensive player. How has he not reached out to him? Especially with Rogers reputation for being a flake. ManKok should have taken Lerner's jet out to his house with a couple girls on each arm and a side of beef for him. Like the first week they were on the job.

Take the side of the player, take the side of the coach. It's all moot. The coach needs to make this right.

I'll bet he knows it now.

I don't think it matters if Mangini reached out to him or not... when a guy's angling to get his cash on, he'll use whatever old excuse he needs.

His contract is untradeable and unreleasable, so he and Mangini will have to work out their differences, whatever they are. It just sounds like his feelings are hurt, so this might not even be a big deal.

Should the Browns make a big turnaround, he'll shut his mouth pretty quick. Bottom line is he's either on this train, or he can pull a Manny and end his career by violating his contract. The latter is just NOT going to happen, so I'm not really getting too excited about this story.

If he wants to be a bitch through the minicamps, that's to his detriment, and the rest of the team will make sure he pays for it someway, I'm sure.

I wish fining his ass would work, but that would just make the situation worse.

How soon people forget...Didnt we just restructure his deal when we traded for him and paid him what a lot of people felt was too good of a contract, too much guaranteed, too long. Unbelievable, instead of being grateful for getting his cash before he had done anything, he wants to wine like a baby. That being said the last thing this D needs is another hole, especially a 350 lb pro bowl sized one he would leave behind. These two need to kiss make up and get over it.

It doesn't matter. The Browns own his soul. Try to smooth it over. If that doesn't work, screw 'im. He wants to get paid - he'll show up for work.

But his reputation suggests that once he gets there he'll give you a half-assed effort at best.

The smart thing to do right now, before we're in the same position the Lions were in with him after 2007, would be to sell high on this guy. Several teams in the bottom third of the first round need help on the interior of their DL.

Trade him for a late 2009 1st rounder, hopefully with a 2010 conditional pick thrown in as well. Take BJ Raji at 5 to be the NT of our future (since Aaron Curry is out of reach), then grab a LB with our late first. Any of Brown, English, Maualuga, or Laurinaitis could be available that late.

What we're going to do instead, though, is hold onto him too long the way we did with DAnchor, and we're going to end up hating him for being the underachiever he's always been. Then we might get a 3rd or 4th rounder out of him and wait several years for the next solution at NT to show up. Because that's the kind of shit we do.

Posted this in the Coles thread too. WE can kill two birds with one stone here. Coles and Mangini had a similar issue when Mangini first got to NY that Rogers and Mangini have now. Sign Coles to play opposite Braylon and make Coles' first order of business to reach out to Rogers.

It doesn't matter. The Browns own his soul. Try to smooth it over. If that doesn't work, screw 'im. He wants to get paid - he'll show up for work.

But his reputation suggests that once he gets there he'll give you a half-assed effort at best.

The smart thing to do right now, before we're in the same position the Lions were in with him after 2007, would be to sell high on this guy. Several teams in the bottom third of the first round need help on the interior of their DL.

Trade him for a late 2009 1st rounder, hopefully with a 2010 conditional pick thrown in as well. Take BJ Raji at 5 to be the NT of our future (since Aaron Curry is out of reach), then grab a LB with our late first. Any of Brown, English, Maualuga, or Laurinaitis could be available that late.

What we're going to do instead, though, is hold onto him too long the way we did with DAnchor, and we're going to end up hating him for being the underachiever he's always been. Then we might get a 3rd or 4th rounder out of him and wait several years for the next solution at NT to show up. Because that's the kind of shit we do.

I'd be fine with that if it weren't for the massive cap hit the Browns would take by trading him.

I'm siding with Mangini on this, though, In a few weeks/months, etc, it'll probably end up being his fault and I'll change my tune. Something tells me, Rogers didn't go up and introduce himself the times him and Mangini were near each other, and usually, a coach waits for a player to do that, not vice versa, previous experience in HS Football (I know, I know, it's not pro or college, but it's the closest I can relate), tells me that this may be the case.

I'd trade him, if, IF, the right deal were to come around, say someone does something just below the Herschel Walker trade, that type level. I liked what he did overall this past year and I think with a decent linebacking corp, he can look even better, but we're still a long way away from that.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

Triple-S wrote:I'd trade him, if, IF, the right deal were to come around, say someone does something just below the Herschel Walker trade, that type level. I liked what he did overall this past year and I think with a decent linebacking corp, he can look even better, but we're still a long way away from that.

So, now a guy with past weight issues is told not to come in over a certain weight and he's upset? I am really not following Rogers on this one. And ManKok has NO reason to take what he did last year concerning weight and assume that they don't need to make him aware of their mandate.

So, now a guy with past weight issues is told not to come in over a certain weight and he's upset? I am really not following Rogers on this one. And ManKok has NO reason to take what he did last year concerning weight and assume that they don't need to make him aware of their mandate.

After reading that story, I've decided that this crap is so stupid that I'm not going to pay attention to it anymore. I don't care whose fault it was. I don't care what Rogers requested.

Most likely, he'll still be here, so all this feces is useless offseason filler.

If they trade him, the Browns will take a cap hit. But let's say he is traded for a mid to late 1st Round pick, and use DJK's scenario:

Would you rather have BJ Raji and Rey Maualuga?

or Brian Orakpo/Everette Brown and Shaun Rogers?

I like both scenarios, so trading him wouldn't keep me up nights. I probably like Raji/Maualuga better, to be honest.

Serious as a fucking coronary......this is the kind of me me me me selfish pay attention to me fucking bullshit that makes it nearly impossible to give a rats fuking ass about professional sports anymore

Still I'm starting to get to the point where you move everyone that isn't happen and try and start with a team that actually gives a shit. What do we have to lose? A couple more mediocre seasons before the lockout?

Playing here is the closest thing to heaven. Really, I mean it's amazing to be in a place where the fans truly cherish their football team and stick behind them win or lose. We players love them, too. I feel a sense of accomplishment playing here, we are a special breed of football players with a great opportunity." ~ tOSU LB Brian Rolle

Still I'm starting to get to the point where you move everyone that isn't happen and try and start with a team that actually gives a shit. What do we have to lose? A couple more mediocre seasons before the lockout?

I agree

On one hand, im thinking "what a big baby Shaun Rodgers is. You play in 16 games a year and make more then 50 middle class families combined. Do your job, listen to your boss, suck it up"

On the other hand, "just trade Shaun, Braylon, DA, and K2. Get as many draft picks you can, and gut the hell out of this team. Build thru the draft, the right way. Sure were going to lose for a few more years, but we probably are going to lose with those guys too"

Still I'm starting to get to the point where you move everyone that isn't happen and try and start with a team that actually gives a shit. What do we have to lose? A couple more mediocre seasons before the lockout?

This happens every year with a lot of NFL players. Not just ours.

But Rogers has not chosen his 'battle' very carefully, IMO. He is putting a new Head Coach and a new GM on the spot by backing them both into a corner. If they let a player back them down, they will have lost the team for good. They'll never recover from it.

Here's what I believe will happen, Mangini will try to smooth Rogers' ruffled feathers. And maybe he should. If that doesn't work, I believe Mangini will let Rogers know that the Browns can ruin his career if they so desire. They can suspend him, de-activate him, fine him and generally make his life a living hell. Not to mention make him worthless on the FA Market.

That's hardball. I would hope that Rogers understands that the Browns have all the cards. Rogers is under contract and the worst thing the Browns have done to him is 'snub' him (??) and tell him to lose weight? Give.Me.A.Break.

Rogers is going to lose this battle. As he should. He needs to 'man-up' and stop being what his nickname implies --

I have to ask this, because I don't know if it's possible, but is there someway, if Rogers continues to be a little bitch, that the Browns could pull out some kind "Dick" move that would take them off the salary cap hook?

I don't know if there's some kind of breach of contract clause they could exercise, or "conduct detrimental to the team."

Just asking, because I'm now at the point that not only do I want to fire everybody and start over, but I want to punish little bitches like Rogers while I'm doing it.

It's not easy being a Browns fan lately, especially when millions of people are struggling to pay their bills (like me) and that fat bitch is saying "Don't pay me." What a douchebag.

any way we can trade him to the titans for a huge chunk of change? i don't know what kind of d-tackles are left on the market, but i doubt any of em are better than rogers and i would think (big assumption) the titans wouldn't mind picking up a contract that's half as much as the one haynesworth just got. they have a 350-pd hole in the middle of their D and we have someone who can fill it. i would ask for their 1st and 3rd. take bj rajii with our 5th pick and a linebacker with the the tennessee pick.

Still I'm starting to get to the point where you move everyone that isn't happen and try and start with a team that actually gives a shit. What do we have to lose? A couple more mediocre seasons before the lockout?

This happens every year with a lot of NFL players. Not just ours.

But Rogers has not chosen his 'battle' very carefully, IMO. He is putting a new Head Coach and a new GM on the spot by backing them both into a corner. If they let a player back them down, they will have lost the team for good. They'll never recover from it.

Here's what I believe will happen, Mangini will try to smooth Rogers' ruffled feathers. And maybe he should. If that doesn't work, I believe Mangini will let Rogers know that the Browns can ruin his career if they so desire. They can suspend him, de-activate him, fine him and generally make his life a living hell. Not to mention make him worthless on the FA Market.

That's hardball. I would hope that Rogers understands that the Browns have all the cards. Rogers is under contract and the worst thing the Browns have done to him is 'snub' him (??) and tell him to lose weight? Give.Me.A.Break.

Rogers is going to lose this battle. As he should. He needs to 'man-up' and stop being what his nickname implies --

A "Big Baby.'

Doesn't happen with the Steelers. Tomlin had the sac to straight up PUP Corey Hampton. You want to model yourself after a team, let's do it after those pricks. Rogers comes in overwieght. P-U-P, the prick.

I agree with your points though, just pointing out how fuckin tired I am of this constantly coming up with our players.

Playing here is the closest thing to heaven. Really, I mean it's amazing to be in a place where the fans truly cherish their football team and stick behind them win or lose. We players love them, too. I feel a sense of accomplishment playing here, we are a special breed of football players with a great opportunity." ~ tOSU LB Brian Rolle

If you want a good golf swing you go to a pro, if you want to make wise financial investments you follow the lead of the Warren Buffets of the world. If the Browns want to be like the championship teams IE Patriots/Steelers then they need to do what those teams do in these situations.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

You may personally not like the way these athletes act today, but they are what they are. And if you're going to have a professional franchise, you have to deal with them and get the most out of them.

And the new Browns management are showing, by the Rogers handling and the K2 handling, that they do not want to deal with the modern superstar any more than the previous management did. And because of that, they will continue to suck ass.

Sure, we will wind up with a bunch of nice guys that make you all warm and fuzzy inside, "average Joes". And you will have the team you deserve.

How many NBA titles did you cost yourself by DEMANDING the Cavs trade Ron Harper? You were the judge, jury, and executioner and he did nothing wrong. And we got Danny Ferry and Craig Ehlo.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.