Or, trusting in God's provision, believing all is nailed to the stake, believing "it's no longer I that do it but the sin that dwells in me"? Not just willfully and carelessly sinning more so "that grace may abound", but still, resting in His grace, and by doing so let Him work His work.

Having been brought up in a very strict, legalistic environment, as well as my own personality, I tend to do a combination of those things, probably mostly leaning towards not trusting nearly enough. Seems there's some sort of healthy balance between "things will turn out just right in the end" with "Father still spanks and He requires obedience".

Or, trusting in God's provision, believing all is nailed to the stake, believing "it's no longer I that do it but the sin that dwells in me"? Not just willfully and carelessly sinning more so "that grace may abound", but still, resting in His grace, and by doing so let Him work His work.

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Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

So do you see any struggle at all for us Taf? One thing I thought of then forgot to mention was, Paul saying he crucified his flesh and died daily. Do you understand that as him simply looking to and trusting God rather than him making some sort of "effort" to battle any evil thoughts or attitudes, etc.? He said he did what he didn't want to do, and didn't do what he wanted to do, almost as if he accepted that's the way it was UNTIL he was fully delivered by Christ Jesus. Again, God's work not his at all? Because as you say, any actions by the flesh are useless - even if done against unruly flesh! Simply done by trusting and believing?

I know when I go through a period...I see it for what it is,and look forward to the day when it won't have anymore desire in me.God brought it and allowed me to see it and know that it too will be taken care of.No condemnation required!blessings

Personally, I am closer to the first of your statements. With each morning there is a renewed battle with my flesh. I know my salvation is secure. I know God's grace abounds in my life. With that said, I believe Jesus asked of us to be perfect. Matthew 5:48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. This is the goal...and we should strive for it daily. It is not "legalistic" to strive to live a life pleasing to God. Legalistic is abusing yourself with your past sins and or trying to save yourself. You should be grieved, ask for forgiveness and turn away. This is a daily battle for me in many areas. If trying to live a holy life were legalistic then why the abundance of scriptures instructing us how to lead a fruitful life pleasing to God?

Legalism=Restricts the blood of Christ, forcing us to complete the act of salvation. It says if we do A, B,C and don't do D,E,F we are saved. This is nonsense and destructive to the Christian walk.

Walking by grace= We strive to live lives pleasing to God because we love him, want to please him and are thankful for our salvation. We know our salvation is secure and because of the peace that wonderful gift brings we offer ourselves as living sacrifices. We ache for our heavenly body...our heavenly home so until then we will conduct ourselves in ways that build up and love others.

I think people should take advantage of the knowledge we have today, as well as apply biblical methods you mentioned.

One technique I used to battle the flesh which was quite effective, was to give myself permission to fail, that way when I did fail, which was going to happen in any case, I was prepared for it, thus did not fall under condeming myself and forgiveness was much easier. The plan of course is to make sure that I had permision to fail, but I had to resist, a bit like a computer game, where if one fails they have continues left to continue the game and advance.

Also there seems to be misunderstanding in the body of christ who think the flesh is evil, probaby due to translation issues. God works through the flesh, He uses a mans and womans flesh based hands to give to the poor, that alone should get one thinking.

Jabcat. I believe that what you have brought forth are the answers and the problems. Let go and let God and then stumble right there before you can finish the good and end up doing the part that is bad.

"Or, trusting in God's provision, believing all is nailed to the stake, believing "it's no longer I that do it but the sin that dwells in me"? Not just willfully and carelessly sinning more so "that grace may abound", but still, resting in His grace, and by doing so let Him work His work." Jabcat

All of the above. Jesus, was the Master, He alone, knowing the wiles of the flesh and its easy way to access man to cause him to fall, I reason He knows our every shortcoming, especially the closer we are led by the Holy Spirit, to the mysteries of the Kingdom.

And I like this as well, " Seems there's some sort of healthy balance between "things will turn out just right in the end" with "Father still spanks and He requires obedience". " Jabcat

Peace and Love Through Jesus

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Mic 7:8 Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Good scripture OT, "no condemnation to them in Christ Jesus". That's one of the scrips (along with "Happy God", "my yoke is easy/burden light") I've been pondering lately.

And then before I read your post Shawn (and I see several things the same way) I just went and found the following from Hebrews 12 -

4 In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5 And have you completely forgotten this word of encouragement that addresses you as a father addresses his son? It says, "My son, do not make light of the Lord's discipline, and do not lose heart when he rebukes you, 6 because the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son."[a]

7 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? 8 If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all. 9 Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live! 10 They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness.

Hmm...yes micah, how it all fits together - the discipline/failing(sin), and then grace/rest, often eludes me. I have some view of balance, but tend to swing one way or the other. So I struggle, I confess, then I trust/rest for a little while. I realize there's sin in me, I confess, then I struggle, then I trust/rest for a little while.....

We all have to come to the end of ourselves....the sin has to end in death.Just "managing the problem won't be beneficial,we must see it for what it is.I beleive our Father is allowing us to see and experience the futility of our sin,and in doing so see that it has no hold on us,and really be free of it.To long we have been religously managing our sin.Sin is sin,God is not shocked,he just wants us to mature in Himblessings

We all have to come to the end of ourselves....the sin has to end in death.Just "managing the problem won't be beneficial,we must see it for what it is.I beleive our Father is allowing us to see and experience the futility of our sin,and in doing so see that it has no hold on us,and really be free of it.To long we have been religously managing our sin.Sin is sin,God is not shocked,he just wants us to mature in Himblessings

Well said. Well said! The words you wrote, as I read them are quite powerful, with great understanding. I agree with you, prayer for me my friend as Im sure you do for all the brethern. Good and sound words.

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Mic 7:8 Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

So do you see any struggle at all for us Taf? One thing I thought of then forgot to mention was, Paul saying he crucified his flesh and died daily. Do you understand that as him simply looking to and trusting God rather than him making some sort of "effort" to battle any evil thoughts or attitudes, etc.? He said he did what he didn't want to do, and didn't do what he wanted to do, almost as if he accepted that's the way it was UNTIL he was fully delivered by Christ Jesus. Again, God's work not his at all? Because as you say, any actions by the flesh are useless - even if done against unruly flesh! Simply done by trusting and believing?

The Body of sin Perished in the Natural Realm- - it has NO place withinin the spirit- Light and Darkness dont MIX- it seems when we SLEEP to the spirit we give birth to Sin , in a realm we No longer dwellRom 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now [it is] high time to awake out of sleep: for now [is] our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Rom 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

as for Pauls words - to Die daily to the SELF -a continuation of Dwelling in the Spirit - SONS ARE THOSE led by the spirit

Through the scrips theres a Process of growth to A MATURE SON[ Full age] , Babe , child ,young man etc as we continue the Race -

Cards back SOME , Maybe she given to expound this a Little more Jab- or others

Blessings

« Last Edit: January 09, 2011, 11:34:00 PM by Taffy »

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Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

For me the key was learning to discern the origin of thoughts. Once I had the Word in me, and knew the NATURE of the Word thru the washing of it, it made it much easier to discern where they were coming from and so take the appropriate action, which for me, coming out of a deliverance mindset, is to do battle in the heavenlies thru the warfare of the Spirit against the principalities and powers of the air (spirits).

So, in practical application, if a thought comes at me that I recognize is not my thought (on the outside of me), or IS "my" thought (on the inside of me), the warfare takes on a different slant in each instance.

In the former, I command whatever it is away from me, and come back at it with the Word that applies to the situation. If I think it's something that is in my flesh either thru birth, right of generational curses, or willfull disobedience, then I'm praying, repenting of any agreement with it (whether aware of it or not), and asking for understanding on HOW this spirit "works", thus how it gained access in the first place, which will help me tailor my warfare response to the situation.

You don't always get IMMEDIATE deliverance from it, particularly if it's established a stronghold in you (something that has either been there so long or is so ingrained in you, you MISTAKENLY think it's part of your "personality"), but if you "chip" away at it everytime it manifests, you will eventually weaken it's hold on you to where deliverance is forthcoming.

Then you have to learn how to KEEP your deliverance from it, which is a whole another topic. NOT learning how to keep it, is why people get healed from something only to have it come back on them, because the spiritual root was not dealt with. There is bud, bloom and FRUIT, in any situation. We that are in these flesh bodies when we are primarily focused on the flesh, only perceive the FRUIT, usually, and then it's a lot harder to deal with.

We are given the "promised land", but to be able to live in it in fullness, we have to destroy the giants in it THAT WERE THERE BEFORE WE ARRIVED. My Blessings.....

« Last Edit: January 08, 2011, 06:42:18 PM by Cardinal »

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"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Good scripture OT, "no condemnation to them in Christ Jesus". That's one of the scrips (along with "Happy God", "my yoke is easy/burden light") I've been pondering lately.

And then before I read your post Shawn (and I see several things the same way) I just went and found the following from Hebrews 12 -

4 In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5 And have you completely forgotten this word of encouragement that addresses you as a father addresses his son? It says, "My son, do not make light of the Lord's discipline, and do not lose heart when he rebukes you, 6 because the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son."[a]

7 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? 8 If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all. 9 Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live! 10 They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness.

Hmm...yes micah, how it all fits together - the discipline/failing(sin), and then grace/rest, often eludes me. I have some view of balance, but tend to swing one way or the other. So I struggle, I confess, then I trust/rest for a little while. I realize there's sin in me, I confess, then I struggle, then I trust/rest for a little while.....

It's amazing how things work in the spiritual realm. I have wanted to put up a post about this same thing lately. I'm not sure what held me back from doing so. I suppose I have old fears of being judged. Then you put up this post. You are saying the same things I am feeling in my spirit. You are struggling with the same things.

I recently allowed my peace and walk to be disturbed by my own sin. It was the kind of sin I have struggled with on some plane, in some fashion for most of my life. I grew discouraged. I have grown discouraged by my lack of faith as well...allowing anxieties to consume me. It's very easy for me to go to a dark depressive place with these thoughts.

I read onlytruth's posts. I instantly wanted to debate. I started posts and then stopped. I had nothing to write. After reading his second post God gave me a dear gift of encouragment. He showed me a glimpse of myself in the future. He showed me what he is molding me into and I gained tremendous peace. He showed me a man beyond offense. I had recently been wounded by a family member. He showed me a day when my offensive response would be a loving response. He showed me a man unable to be wounded or disturbed. He showed me a man with unshakeable faith even in the mist of significant trials. He showed me a life of peace and rest beyond circumstances.

I now believe even my sin has it's purpose. In that knowledge, and the vision of what the Lord is forming me into, I found some peace with my own struggles. This is only for a season. Don't be discouraged. God disciplines those he loves. He is maturing us to a place that I think few can envision.

For me the key was learning to discern the origin of thoughts. Once I had the Word in me, and knew the NATURE of the Word thru the washing of it, it made it much easier to discern where they were coming from and so take the appropriate action, which for me, coming out of a deliverance mindset, is to do battle in the heavenlies thru the warfare of the Spirit against the principalities and powers of the air (spirits).

So, in practical application, if a thought comes at me that I recognize is not my thought (on the outside of me), or IS "my" thought (on the inside of me), the warfare takes on a different slant in each instance.

In the former, I command whatever it is away from me, and come back at it with the Word that applies to the situation. If I think it's something that is in my flesh either thru birth, right of generational curses, or willfull disobedience, then I'm praying, repenting of any agreement with it (whether aware of it or not), and asking for understanding on HOW this spirit "works", thus how it gained access in the first place, which will help me tailor my warfare response to the situation.

You don't always get IMMEDIATE deliverance from it, particularly if it's established a stronghold in you (something that has either been there so long or is so ingrained in you, you MISTAKENLY think it's part of your "personality"), but if you "chip" away at it everytime it manifests, you will eventually weaken it's hold on you to where deliverance is forthcoming.

Then you have to learn how to KEEP your deliverance from it, which is a whole another topic. NOT learning how to keep it, is why people get healed from something only to have it come back on them, because the spiritual root was not dealt with. There is bud, bloom and FRUIT, in any situation. We that are in these flesh bodies when we are primarily focused on the flesh, only perceive the FRUIT, usually, and then it's a lot harder to deal with.

We are given the "promised land", but to be able to live in it in fullness, we have to destroy the giants in it THAT WERE THERE BEFORE WE ARRIVED. My Blessings.....

I would be very interested in your thoughts on this particular section...maybe in a seperate thread.

Then you have to learn how to KEEP your deliverance from it, which is a whole another topic. NOT learning how to keep it, is why people get healed from something only to have it come back on them, because the spiritual root was not dealt with. There is bud, bloom and FRUIT, in any situation. We that are in these flesh bodies when we are primarily focused on the flesh, only perceive the FRUIT, usually, and then it's a lot harder to deal with.

"You don't always get IMMEDIATE deliverance from it, particularly if it's established a stronghold in you (something that has either been there so long or is so ingrained in you, you MISTAKENLY think it's part of your "personality"), but if you "chip" away at it everytime it manifests, you will eventually weaken it's hold on you to where deliverance is forthcoming." Cardinal

I find this to be very helpful! Thank you Cardinal thank you Jesus.

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Mic 7:8 Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

@ Micah......glad it blessed you It was initially quite a shock to me in the beginning of my walk to realize some things that I thought were "personality attributes" were really spirits expressing THEIR nature thru me with my unwitting cooperation.......I just HATE IT when that happens .......

@ Shawn.......what specifically are you wanting me to expand on? Start the thread and I'll follow.....

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"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

It was initially quite a shock to me in beginning of my walk to realize some things that I thought were "personality attributes" were really spirits expressing THEIR nature thru me with my unwitting cooperation.......I just HATE IT when that happens

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Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

@ Micah......glad it blessed you It was initially quite a shock to me in the beginning of my walk to realize some things that I thought were "personality attributes" were really spirits expressing THEIR nature thru me with my unwitting cooperation.......I just HATE IT when that happens .......

@ Shawn.......what specifically are you wanting me to expand on? Start the thread and I'll follow.....

I was speaking specifically about how to keep your deliverance from something that once bound you.

For me it's not just putting all the blame on an evil spirit and claiming victory . . .I think when there's a change of inward alignment in us that frees us from whatever the bondage was, the "keeping it off" has to do with changing habits that allowed the problem to take root in us in the first place. If it's alchohol, stay away from bars . . . that's an elementary explanation I know, but the principle stays pretty much the same on any of the bondages we get freed from.

Filling our minds with heavenly thoughts for me is the biggest step to walking totally out of the issues that plague us. Pursuing Christ redirects our head from going down the dark alleys we have no business being in. As a man "thinks" . . . I don't think the problems come on us by a blind-sided attack . . .I think there were some doors we opened somewhere in our lives that allowed the unwelcome things to come in . . .so once we're flushed out, our lifestyle of thinking should be encouraged to change direction with it's processes as well.

For me it's not just putting all the blame on an evil spirit and claiming victory . . .I think when there's a change of inward alignment in us that frees us from whatever the bondage was, the "keeping it off" has to do with changing habits that allowed the problem to take root in us in the first place. If it's alchohol, stay away from bars . . . that's an elementary explanation I know, but the principle stays pretty much the same on any of the bondages we get freed from.

Filling our minds with heavenly thoughts for me is the biggest step to walking totally out of the issues that plague us. Pursuing Christ redirects our head from going down the dark alleys we have no business being in. As a man "thinks" . . .

Lately been empowered a little bit to "look to Him" during these times, give Him the burden. "...casting your cares on Him, because He cares for you".

Just thought of something. Paul said " (Rom. 8:8-9) So they that are in the flesh cannot please God." (Verse 9) but ye are not in the flesh but in the spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.

(Gal. 2:20) "I am crucified with Christ: {which we are} nevertheless I live; YET NOT I, {our flesh is not alive it is dead} BUT CHRIST LIVETH IN ME: and that life which I NOW LIVE IN THE FLESH I LIVE BY THE FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD".

(2Cor. 5:16) Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh:

Paul also said, "hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 2:6).

(Col. 3:2) Set your affection {mind} on things above, not on things on the earth.

All of these verses tell me that since it is God that works in us both to will and to do of HIS GOOD PLEASURE. That we are spiritually sitting in the heavenly places already in Christ. That we should think on things above and that we are in the spirit and not in the flesh. This means to me, that to worry about the flesh is not having faith in Christ that he is in us and is working out all things for his good pleasure. This is just the way I see this.

Jab, that is a struggle for me as well. The proverbial plucking of my eye is something I have to remind myself everyday. Walking through a world without modesty or shame can be a struggle. I grow tired of white knuckling through temptation. But, one thing I believe with all my heart...true deliverance from the temptation is just around the corner. I have been bound by many things that had deep roots, planted by pain, fear and just the journey of walking in this flesh. There was a time when I seen no relief in my future and I lost hope. At that point, God gave me his hand and led me to healing. It wasn't easy, nor do I consider it something I never have to battle with again. But, I can say that today I walk in hope and faith. So, today I believe he will deliver me even from the wandering of my eyes. What a wonderful Savior we have in Christ Jesus.

Just thought of something. Paul said " (Rom. 8:8-9) So they that are in the flesh cannot please God." (Verse 9) but ye are not in the flesh but in the spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.

(Gal. 2:20) "I am crucified with Christ: {which we are} nevertheless I live; YET NOT I, {our flesh is not alive it is dead} BUT CHRIST LIVETH IN ME: and that life which I NOW LIVE IN THE FLESH I LIVE BY THE FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD".

(2Cor. 5:16) Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh:

Paul also said, "hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 2:6).

(Col. 3:2) Set your affection {mind} on things above, not on things on the earth.

All of these verses tell me that since it is God that works in us both to will and to do of HIS GOOD PLEASURE. That we are spiritually sitting in the heavenly places already in Christ. That we should think on things above and that we are in the spirit and not in the flesh. This means to me, that to worry about the flesh is not having faith in Christ that he is in us and is working out all things for his good pleasure. This is just the way I see this.

CHB

I can see some benefit to that line of thinking. With that said, we are to strive to live holy lives pleasing to God. If we are to total be unconcerned about sin then why all the instruction on Holy living?

We are told to bring every THOUGHT into captivity to the mind of Christ. Not recognizing the need to take authority over this avenue is, at worst, setting ourselves above the Master, who Himself had to respond with the scriptures when tried as by fire in the wilderness. He went from taking authority over His own vessel, to being given power and authority over the vessels of others. Those that would rule with Him must first rule over their own "kingdoms/gardens".

In a similar illustration, as children we don't have other children to "rule" over, but we must learn how to disipline ourselves. But as adults we have children and we must "rule" over them as part of our responsibility as adults and parents. And so we read, "spare the rod, spoil the child". Unfortunately, in their carnal understanding many mistook this to mean to beat their children into submission, but the rod of authority is/was both a shepherds hook, and a symbol of being the firstfruits/head, ie. GENESIS of something. In the same vein, many heads of ministries beat their sheep into submission to their particular doctrine or doctrines.

An interesting thing is, the patriarchs had rods, in which they carved their generations into, tracing back their lineage all the way to Adam, who traced his all the way back to GOD. Christ, the firstfruits, is OUR ROD OF AUTHORITY, and we are to "wield" that "upright (righteousness) staff" both as a shepherd in tending/caring for the flock, and in the corrective aspect of a LOVING parent.

So when we RAISE our rod of authority, the spirits see our lineage as going back to GOD also. The resurrection while still in the body, is as the raising of the rod of authority, no different than when Moses raised his rod and the waters (of judgment to the flesh) rolled all the way back to the city (multiple habitations) of ADAM. This is what Romans 8 the manifestation of the sons of God, IS. No longer Christ in us the HOPE of glory ONLY, but the actual glory being manifested. Christ IS, the glory of God.

The HELMET of salvation is the first article of our armor for a reason. The "womb-man" will recreate whatever seed is planted into it, giving birth to "giants" (exalted themselves above the mind of Christ). So the first "battleground" is the mind, where the seeds are planted. These seeds come in as thoughts, they are the unclean birds that seek to make a nest so they can procreate.

As I said before, some thoughts originate inside our flesh, some outside. The "method" for carrying out the judgments of the law, is a spirit. Jesus said not one jot or tittle would fall away, and indeed it doesn't, BUT in us it is accomplished spiritually. Read Deut. 28 if you are unfamiliar with the judgments and the blessings decreed by God. Then look to your own family to see if the judgments have not been carried out down thru the generations, and are not still being carried out. These are generational curses at work, and the reason you see particular things running thru the generations. Science and medicine say they are "genetic predispositions", but they are only looking at the fruit, not the root. The root is spiritual, a spirit has the capacity to change our physical make-up and eventually our DNA.

One of the errors in separating us from Israel leads to missing the fact that we are spiritually speaking, spiritual Israel. Everything that they went thru was for our example, because we are to inherit the promises that were made to THEM! They "carried" us as a woman with child. As in the wilderness, the children were the only ones to enter into the promised land, and so we are told that we must enter in as a small child.

I'm going to finish this in another post; the program is jolting my screen again :(

« Last Edit: January 09, 2011, 08:29:09 PM by Cardinal »

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"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Ok, so how do we overcome? Again, it depends on whether outside the body or inside the body. Also understand that there is nothing outside the body that can tempt you if it is not FIRST inside the body. THIS is why it says let no man say when he is tempted, that God tempted him (as if the temptation was from WITHOUT) but rather he was led away of his OWN lusts. And so it's NOT because He does not allow the tempting/testing (think of Job), but because if we fail it's because it was already IN US to begin with. That's why Jesus said the prince of this world cometh, BUT HE HATH NOTHING IN ME.

Until we can say the same, when the princes/principalities of the air/spirit, come, and they many times find something in us they can stand on. And then the battle begins. If we entertain the thought the spirit brings to the door (sin crouching at the door, as a lion crouches) of our heart, and open our door/heart to it, it comes in and makes our condition worse/more weak in that area than it was before.

Let me just say up front, that there is NO SHAME in admitting these things happen. Now this may come as a shock to some, but ALL SIN IS COMMON TO MAN, means we were all made from the same serpent's meat (dust) and all have the same spirits to begin with. This is what we were lowered into to overcome, to grow strong and mature from, just as a muscle grows bigger and stronger from resistance.

The ONLY DIFFERENCE between us and a literal murderer is that, that person gave life to what was in their heart and we didn't. HOWEVER; that the SPIRIT is still there, is why He said if you hate your brother IN YOUR HEART, then you have murdered him.

This is why He rebuked the Pharisees, telling them to clean the INSIDE OF THE CUP, not just the outside. Deliverance, then, is cleaning the INSIDE of the "cup". We, our hearts, are the cup or vessel HE drinks from. Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. Christ is in the "hell" of all, ie. their unclean cups/hearts, waiting for a drink of cool living water from one who has overcome in whatever area they are struggling with. Do we have a drink for Him? Or do we expect Him to drink of a bitter (unclean) fountain?

An old friend of mine went to an conference once of 5000 pastor's from all over the country, of her denomination. He gave her a vision of HIM in all 5000 of them, BOUND, saying, "SET ME FREE!" She had been resisting leaving her denomination; that took care of that.

But He is not just bound by denominational walls men have erected to separate His body within man, He is bound by all the things we do not overcome. He wants to manifest Himself FULLY thru the body He died for. We are not just overcoming for ourselves, we are overcoming for HIM, and for ALL, including our generations.

Now the nuts and bolts. Do you hear His voice yet? If He can speak to you in your seeking, He can tell you what spirit it is you are battling. It's not necessary for removal that you name it, but it DOES aid in understanding what it is and HOW it operates. They are "sneaky"; they will find any avenue to express their nature thru you.

For example, most people think of lust as being a sexual sin only, but His definition of lust is DESIRING ANYTHING apart from His perfect will for the individual in whatever situation is being presented. Start praying and asking Him for His perfect will to be done in you.

Train yourself to become aware of every thought and measure it against what the Word says, or against what a particular revelation to you has been previously (of the Word). Resist the devil and he will flee, comes in here. If you continue to be diligent in this, eventually you will lose your appeal to that spirit, because it already has tried you so many times before without success, and following that, the Lord will deliver you of whatever remnant in that area of your heart/soul may remain.

I will add here before anyone raises that flag, that the abuses of deliverance in many ministries were a result of "getting ahead" of the Lord and just indiscriminately casting out anything they thought they saw. Sometimes they hit on one, and the spirits ARE subject to us in His name, but the ministers failed to listen to the LORD on WHEN to remove it, and so the person had not overcome it yet, and subsequently fell "7 times worse". The ministers will bear their own judgment over that, no need to condemn them.

I'll use myself as an example. I had a serious back injury when young; had 4 vertebraes out of place, ruptured discs, partial paralysis on one leg. After I came to the Lord NO ONE PRAYED FOR ME, I didn't ask for prayer, BUT, I got healed one night. I asked Him how this could happen since no one prayed, I didn't ask (thought I was unworthy), and He told me I had overcome the darkness (read spirits here) that had brought the injury to me.

He then showed me in the Word, how He had told the Israelites to seperate themselves from idolators like the Egyptians and Chaldeans, but when it was time to BUILD THE TEMPLE, He instructed them to BRING IN these groups as workers. When their particular job to do in the temple was finished, THEY LEFT WITHOUT BEING TOLD, and the priests (read Christ here) cleansed the temple and the glory of the Lord came in. So by the same principle, when the "workmen's" work was finished IN MY TEMPLE, they left.

He didn't name them, and to this day I have no idea what their name/nature was, but I know they must have had something to do with righteousness (uprightness), and probably rebellion (neck). They have never come back, and I was so healed the mylogram couldn't even find the scar tissue where the injuries WERE. When God does it, He does it right, LOL. I hope this helps someone.......Blessings.....

« Last Edit: January 09, 2011, 09:26:47 PM by Cardinal »

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"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor