Out of Egypt: Israel’s Exodus Between Text and Memory, History and Imagination

“The closest parallel to the Book of Exodus in the ancient West is Homer’s Odyssey. Both are stories of migration—of identity suspended until the protagonist—Odysseus or Israel—reaches a home. Neither account records events of the sort that are likely to have left marks in the archaeological record, or even in contemporaneous monuments… But the Exodus is not the story of an individual; it is the story of a nation. It is the historical myth of an entire people, a focal point for national identity.”
–Baruch Halpern, “The Exodus from Egypt: Myth or Reality?” The Rise of Ancient Israel, 1991.

The Exodus sits at the heart of Israelite religion, literature and identity, and aspects of the narrative helped shape traditions in Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Yet challenging textual and archaeological evidence has led some scholars to question whether the Biblical narrative reflects a single historical event or if it should be read, as Ronald Hendel wrote in Bible Review, as “conflation of history and memory—a mixture of historical truth and fiction, composed of ‘authentic’ historical details, folklore motifs, ethnic self-fashioning, ideological claims and narrative imagination.”

25 Responses

Has none of the “experts” ever read “Ages in Chaos” by Dr. Immanuel Velikovsky?
Perhaps they keep silent about his great work so that they can cling on to their out-of-date ideas about the Exodus – and therefore all later Israelite history, They would have nothing left to speculate about!
Joe mentioned that the Exodus Pharaoh was the last of the Hyksos/Amalekites but the Hebrew Bible tells us clearly the as the Israelites were LEAVING Egypt (heading roughly east) the were attacked by the Amalekites heading WEST towards Egypt. The “Hyksos” (a descriptive name invented by the Greeks very many centuries after they entered Egypt after the devastation caused by the plagues and the destruction of Egypt’s army and king at the Sea of Reeds. Anyway we know from the Book of Samuel, the name of the last Amalakite pharoah and it was NOT the name Joe gave. Reasd alkl about it in “Ages in Chaos”.

Ummm, it seems no one has considered that the “Egyptians” from whom the Israelites fled were in fact the Hyksos. More specifically, the pharaoh of the Exodus narrative who was confronted by Aaron and Moses was Khamudi, the last of the Hyksos pharaohs. The devastation of the Hyksos army in the Sea of Reeds would have left the Lower Delta wide open to invasion by the Theban Ppharaoh Ahmose, but only after a few years had passed since the devastation of the Nine Plagues (the Tenth was exclusively for the Hyksos people), being cause by volcanic activity to the west (in the Tibesti Massif) would have affected the Egyptians as well. By the (more or less) standard Egyptian chronology the Israelite exodus from (Hyksos-controlled) Egypt would have occurred around 1550 BCE, certainly not a century before, nor a century (or more) after. That means the “experts” have gotten the Biblical exegesis/chronology all wrong. Oh well, maybe the next generation will finally get it right.

When “biblical” publications call the Exodus “a mixture of historical truth and fiction” composed of “historical details [and] folklore” and “historical myth”; we have “true lies!” May God deliver us from such! Will they next “help” explain the gospels and the life of Christ; will the resurrection then become an “historical myth”? If they believe the Exodus was an “historical myth,” what would that say about the Ten Commandments, which were given during the Exodus? They are using the good name of the Bible to attract believers but may they take the word Bible off their publications. Read EXODUS: The Route, Sea Crossing, God’s Mountain, this book deals with those “Who changed the truth of God into a lie…” http://www.amazon.com/EXODUS-G-M-Matheny-ebook/dp/B005DHNWXC/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=&qid=

Hello, I am trying to contact Professor Bietak. Would you happen to have an email address for him? I am producing a curriculum for chldren and I would like to use his diagram of the Israelite style 4 room house and a photo of the Avaris dig site, it possible.

[…] the lecture “Hero and Villain: outline of the Exodus Pharaoh in Artapanus” at the latest Out of Egypt: Israel’s Exodus Between text and memory, historical past and imagination convention hosted by way of Calit2’s Qualcomm Institute at UC San Diego. Watch the entire lecture […]

[…] full-length lectures from the Out of Egypt: Israel’s Exodus Between textual content and reminiscence, historical past and imagin… convention, which addressed one of the vital most difficult concerns in Exodus scholarship. The […]

This man’s presuppositions lead to extraneous interpretations of Hosea 12 among other passages. Hosea 12 states Yahwah is related to Egypt? This is a (misguided) opinion stated as fact on his PowerPoint and in his lecture. What else is he presenting as fact that is should be opinion?

He cannot even pronounce the name of Yahwah correctly according to the historical manuscripts, using a modern Hebrew phonetic alphabet for an ancient name, and adding a Greek suffix “Yahvay.” Yet his lecture is on the name?

[…] San Diego academician William Propp delivered a harangue “What Was The Exodus?” during a new Out of Egypt: Israel’s Exodus Between Text and Memory, History and Imagination discussion hosted by Calit2’s Qualcomm Institute during UC San Diego. Watch a full harangue video […]

[…] “The Exodus and a Bible: What Was Known, What Was Remembered, What Was Forgotten” during a new Out of Egypt: Israel’s Exodus Between Text and Memory, History and Imagination discussion hosted by Calit2’s Qualcomm Institute during UC San Diego. Watch a full harangue video […]

Jehovah’s Witnesses (JWs) say as referenced by Kurt, “Because of the chaotic state of Egyptian chronology, it is not possible to determine with any certainty who this Pharaoh was.”
Let me say this. It is impossible for JWs to determine with any certainty or even a clue, who the Pharaoh of Moses was. That is because God goes no where near them. Spiritual cooties, you understand 😉 Just kidding ya, Kurt. But if you look for the circumstances that should point out the Pharaoh loud and clear, by the destruction of Pharaoh and his army, which certainly would have left Egypt devastated for some time, then you just might have your answer. I got it. Had it since 1987. One you have the Pharaoh, then you can straighten out the chronology problems indicated by the 1628 BC dendrochronology determination, rather than the much later approx 1500-1550 BC dates that come from Carbon 14 dating. the problem was a dark age in the 20th dynasty, after Rameses III. It leaves Egyptian time accounting missing as much as 150 years. I say about 140 years. That is why Rameses II and all before him should have dates pushed back a good 100-150 years. But unless you had a date of certainty somewhere in the 18th or 19th dynasty, you would be lost since the 2nd intermediate period between the 12th and 18th dynasties is a hopeless quagmire. I guts it all, though. Someday you’ll read about it.

What makes it evern tougher for JWs is that they do not have an accurate bible Chronology of their own. They contaminate it with their 1914 (Dan. 4: “7 times”) baloney. Here is the real deal:http://www.truth1.org/chrono-over.htm

[…] harangue “Exodus and Memory: Remembering a Origin of Israel and Monotheism” during a new Out of Egypt: Israel’s Exodus Between Text and Memory, History and Imagination discussion hosted by Calit2’s Qualcomm Institute during UC San Diego. Watch a full harangue video […]

An Issue Greater Than Deliverance
On commissioning Moses, Jehovah emphasized the importance of the divine name. Respect for that name and the One whom it represents was vital. When asked about his name, Jehovah told Moses: “I shall prove to be what I shall prove to be.” Further, Moses was to tell the sons of Israel: “Jehovah the God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.” Jehovah added: “This is my name to time indefinite, and this is the memorial of me to generation after generation.” (Exodus 3:13-15) Jehovah is still the name by which God is known to his servants around the earth.—Isaiah 12:4, 5; 43:10-12.
Appearing before Pharaoh, Moses and Aaron delivered their message in the name of Jehovah. But Pharaoh arrogantly said: “Who is Jehovah, so that I should obey his voice to send Israel away? I do not know Jehovah at all and, what is more, I am not going to send Israel away.” (Exodus 5:1, 2) Pharaoh proved to be both hardhearted and deceitful, yet Jehovah urged Moses to deliver messages to him again and again. (Exodus 7:14-16, 20-23; 8:1, 2, 20) Moses could see that Pharaoh was irritated. Would any good come from confronting him again? Israel was eager for deliverance. Pharaoh was adamant in his refusal. What would you have done?
Moses delivered yet another message, saying: “This is what Jehovah the God of the Hebrews has said: ‘Send my people away that they may serve me.’” God also said: “By now I could have thrust my hand out that I might strike you and your people with pestilence and that you might be effaced from the earth. But, in fact, for this cause I have kept you in existence, for the sake of showing you my power and in order to have my name declared in all the earth.” (Exodus 9:13-16) Because of what would be done with hardhearted Pharaoh, Jehovah purposed to demonstrate his power in a way that would serve notice on all who defy him. This would include Satan the Devil, the one whom Jesus Christ later called “the ruler of the world.” (John 14:30; Romans 9:17-24) As foretold, Jehovah’s name was declared around the earth. His long-suffering led to preservation for the Israelites and a vast mixed multitude that joined them in worshiping him. (Exodus 9:20, 21; 12:37, 38) Since then, the declaration of Jehovah’s name has benefited millions more who have taken up true worship.http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2005366#h=8:0-11:1072http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200272060

It is amazing how blind and confused the “experts” are when it comes to the Bible. They begin with assuming it is only an ordinary history. The Bible was dictated by God the those who wrote and has an amazing unity, harmony and continuity throuhout.
Much of it was written by eyewitnesses. They were there an wrote about others who were there. Parts of the Bible were revealed by God and kept true to real history by God’s guidance. It is not as Peter said “a cunninly devised fable” as the “experts” seem to say.
How do they know? Were they there? Do they have knowledge of events that they did not witness from some source better than God? Do they know all things. To imagine that they know better than the eye witnesses and God is extremely arrogant. Such arrogace is irrational and cannot even be considered to have any validity.
Trust God and His word The Bible.

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25 Responses

Has none of the “experts” ever read “Ages in Chaos” by Dr. Immanuel Velikovsky?
Perhaps they keep silent about his great work so that they can cling on to their out-of-date ideas about the Exodus – and therefore all later Israelite history, They would have nothing left to speculate about!
Joe mentioned that the Exodus Pharaoh was the last of the Hyksos/Amalekites but the Hebrew Bible tells us clearly the as the Israelites were LEAVING Egypt (heading roughly east) the were attacked by the Amalekites heading WEST towards Egypt. The “Hyksos” (a descriptive name invented by the Greeks very many centuries after they entered Egypt after the devastation caused by the plagues and the destruction of Egypt’s army and king at the Sea of Reeds. Anyway we know from the Book of Samuel, the name of the last Amalakite pharoah and it was NOT the name Joe gave. Reasd alkl about it in “Ages in Chaos”.

Ummm, it seems no one has considered that the “Egyptians” from whom the Israelites fled were in fact the Hyksos. More specifically, the pharaoh of the Exodus narrative who was confronted by Aaron and Moses was Khamudi, the last of the Hyksos pharaohs. The devastation of the Hyksos army in the Sea of Reeds would have left the Lower Delta wide open to invasion by the Theban Ppharaoh Ahmose, but only after a few years had passed since the devastation of the Nine Plagues (the Tenth was exclusively for the Hyksos people), being cause by volcanic activity to the west (in the Tibesti Massif) would have affected the Egyptians as well. By the (more or less) standard Egyptian chronology the Israelite exodus from (Hyksos-controlled) Egypt would have occurred around 1550 BCE, certainly not a century before, nor a century (or more) after. That means the “experts” have gotten the Biblical exegesis/chronology all wrong. Oh well, maybe the next generation will finally get it right.

When “biblical” publications call the Exodus “a mixture of historical truth and fiction” composed of “historical details [and] folklore” and “historical myth”; we have “true lies!” May God deliver us from such! Will they next “help” explain the gospels and the life of Christ; will the resurrection then become an “historical myth”? If they believe the Exodus was an “historical myth,” what would that say about the Ten Commandments, which were given during the Exodus? They are using the good name of the Bible to attract believers but may they take the word Bible off their publications. Read EXODUS: The Route, Sea Crossing, God’s Mountain, this book deals with those “Who changed the truth of God into a lie…” http://www.amazon.com/EXODUS-G-M-Matheny-ebook/dp/B005DHNWXC/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=&qid=

Hello, I am trying to contact Professor Bietak. Would you happen to have an email address for him? I am producing a curriculum for chldren and I would like to use his diagram of the Israelite style 4 room house and a photo of the Avaris dig site, it possible.

[…] the lecture “Hero and Villain: outline of the Exodus Pharaoh in Artapanus” at the latest Out of Egypt: Israel’s Exodus Between text and memory, historical past and imagination convention hosted by way of Calit2’s Qualcomm Institute at UC San Diego. Watch the entire lecture […]

[…] full-length lectures from the Out of Egypt: Israel’s Exodus Between textual content and reminiscence, historical past and imagin… convention, which addressed one of the vital most difficult concerns in Exodus scholarship. The […]

This man’s presuppositions lead to extraneous interpretations of Hosea 12 among other passages. Hosea 12 states Yahwah is related to Egypt? This is a (misguided) opinion stated as fact on his PowerPoint and in his lecture. What else is he presenting as fact that is should be opinion?

He cannot even pronounce the name of Yahwah correctly according to the historical manuscripts, using a modern Hebrew phonetic alphabet for an ancient name, and adding a Greek suffix “Yahvay.” Yet his lecture is on the name?

[…] San Diego academician William Propp delivered a harangue “What Was The Exodus?” during a new Out of Egypt: Israel’s Exodus Between Text and Memory, History and Imagination discussion hosted by Calit2’s Qualcomm Institute during UC San Diego. Watch a full harangue video […]

[…] “The Exodus and a Bible: What Was Known, What Was Remembered, What Was Forgotten” during a new Out of Egypt: Israel’s Exodus Between Text and Memory, History and Imagination discussion hosted by Calit2’s Qualcomm Institute during UC San Diego. Watch a full harangue video […]

Jehovah’s Witnesses (JWs) say as referenced by Kurt, “Because of the chaotic state of Egyptian chronology, it is not possible to determine with any certainty who this Pharaoh was.”
Let me say this. It is impossible for JWs to determine with any certainty or even a clue, who the Pharaoh of Moses was. That is because God goes no where near them. Spiritual cooties, you understand 😉 Just kidding ya, Kurt. But if you look for the circumstances that should point out the Pharaoh loud and clear, by the destruction of Pharaoh and his army, which certainly would have left Egypt devastated for some time, then you just might have your answer. I got it. Had it since 1987. One you have the Pharaoh, then you can straighten out the chronology problems indicated by the 1628 BC dendrochronology determination, rather than the much later approx 1500-1550 BC dates that come from Carbon 14 dating. the problem was a dark age in the 20th dynasty, after Rameses III. It leaves Egyptian time accounting missing as much as 150 years. I say about 140 years. That is why Rameses II and all before him should have dates pushed back a good 100-150 years. But unless you had a date of certainty somewhere in the 18th or 19th dynasty, you would be lost since the 2nd intermediate period between the 12th and 18th dynasties is a hopeless quagmire. I guts it all, though. Someday you’ll read about it.

What makes it evern tougher for JWs is that they do not have an accurate bible Chronology of their own. They contaminate it with their 1914 (Dan. 4: “7 times”) baloney. Here is the real deal:http://www.truth1.org/chrono-over.htm

[…] harangue “Exodus and Memory: Remembering a Origin of Israel and Monotheism” during a new Out of Egypt: Israel’s Exodus Between Text and Memory, History and Imagination discussion hosted by Calit2’s Qualcomm Institute during UC San Diego. Watch a full harangue video […]

An Issue Greater Than Deliverance
On commissioning Moses, Jehovah emphasized the importance of the divine name. Respect for that name and the One whom it represents was vital. When asked about his name, Jehovah told Moses: “I shall prove to be what I shall prove to be.” Further, Moses was to tell the sons of Israel: “Jehovah the God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.” Jehovah added: “This is my name to time indefinite, and this is the memorial of me to generation after generation.” (Exodus 3:13-15) Jehovah is still the name by which God is known to his servants around the earth.—Isaiah 12:4, 5; 43:10-12.
Appearing before Pharaoh, Moses and Aaron delivered their message in the name of Jehovah. But Pharaoh arrogantly said: “Who is Jehovah, so that I should obey his voice to send Israel away? I do not know Jehovah at all and, what is more, I am not going to send Israel away.” (Exodus 5:1, 2) Pharaoh proved to be both hardhearted and deceitful, yet Jehovah urged Moses to deliver messages to him again and again. (Exodus 7:14-16, 20-23; 8:1, 2, 20) Moses could see that Pharaoh was irritated. Would any good come from confronting him again? Israel was eager for deliverance. Pharaoh was adamant in his refusal. What would you have done?
Moses delivered yet another message, saying: “This is what Jehovah the God of the Hebrews has said: ‘Send my people away that they may serve me.’” God also said: “By now I could have thrust my hand out that I might strike you and your people with pestilence and that you might be effaced from the earth. But, in fact, for this cause I have kept you in existence, for the sake of showing you my power and in order to have my name declared in all the earth.” (Exodus 9:13-16) Because of what would be done with hardhearted Pharaoh, Jehovah purposed to demonstrate his power in a way that would serve notice on all who defy him. This would include Satan the Devil, the one whom Jesus Christ later called “the ruler of the world.” (John 14:30; Romans 9:17-24) As foretold, Jehovah’s name was declared around the earth. His long-suffering led to preservation for the Israelites and a vast mixed multitude that joined them in worshiping him. (Exodus 9:20, 21; 12:37, 38) Since then, the declaration of Jehovah’s name has benefited millions more who have taken up true worship.http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2005366#h=8:0-11:1072http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200272060

It is amazing how blind and confused the “experts” are when it comes to the Bible. They begin with assuming it is only an ordinary history. The Bible was dictated by God the those who wrote and has an amazing unity, harmony and continuity throuhout.
Much of it was written by eyewitnesses. They were there an wrote about others who were there. Parts of the Bible were revealed by God and kept true to real history by God’s guidance. It is not as Peter said “a cunninly devised fable” as the “experts” seem to say.
How do they know? Were they there? Do they have knowledge of events that they did not witness from some source better than God? Do they know all things. To imagine that they know better than the eye witnesses and God is extremely arrogant. Such arrogace is irrational and cannot even be considered to have any validity.
Trust God and His word The Bible.