durbnpoisn:There is one big glaring problem with today's cars. Inspection. Here in NJ, where inspection is mandatory, the only way to pass is to plug the car into their computer, and presumably, they will tell you what is wrong with it. Nowadays ALL cars have to have these sorts of interfaces, even though they don't work with a shiat. Case in point... My wife's 1999 Volvo wouldn't pass because the check engine light is on. "Well, what do I need to fix?" "I don't know. The computer doesn't say. So I can't pass your car."

We were planning on saving that car for our son, who will be driving in a couple of years. But considering it will likely never pass inspection again, that doesn't seem likely.

Couple that with the cost of newer cars, gas, and insturance... I don't see how any teenager working at McDonalds could afford anything BUT their car, assuming they could afford even that.

CSBMy dad had a 2000 Ford Ranger that gave him the same problem. His mechanics couldn't get it fixed and he was at a loss for a vehicle. The code simply read #5 cylinder misfiring and the mechanics kept thinking electrical. So, he bought a 2010 F-150 and then used it to trailer the Ranger to me because MI doesn't have inspections. It runs so I just start driving it and doing my usual maintenance babying that I do to my cars. Two weeks after I got it the check engine light went off and eventually stayed off. The cure: fuel injector cleaner, it had a fouled injector causing the cylinder to not fire right.

The codes only give you the symptoms of the problem, a good mechanic can narrow down the exact problem. Sometimes you get a mechanic that is too single minded.

durbnpoisn:There is one big glaring problem with today's cars. Inspection. Here in NJ, where inspection is mandatory, the only way to pass is to plug the car into their computer, and presumably, they will tell you what is wrong with it. Nowadays ALL cars have to have these sorts of interfaces, even though they don't work with a shiat. Case in point... My wife's 1999 Volvo wouldn't pass because the check engine light is on. "Well, what do I need to fix?" "I don't know. The computer doesn't say. So I can't pass your car."

We were planning on saving that car for our son, who will be driving in a couple of years. But considering it will likely never pass inspection again, that doesn't seem likely.

Couple that with the cost of newer cars, gas, and insturance... I don't see how any teenager working at McDonalds could afford anything BUT their car, assuming they could afford even that.

Where I live, we have to have our car inspected...and whatever the mechanics who are getting a kickback from the gov't says you have to fix on your car has to get fixed or you don't get to renew it. My bill once reached $1000, but most of the time it's several hundred.

Persnickety:As to health care: Feel free to compare the per person cost of pre Obama health care in America to any other first world nation with socialized medicine. Left to itself, free market health care has accomplished nothing in 40 years except for soaring costs, bankruptcies, millions of people without coverage and plenty of lucrative executive bonuses. Our system is a joke.

You are assuming that we had a free market health care system in America before Obamacare. We didn't, we had mostly HMO's that were linked to a persons large corporate job. Which are basically a socialist system that were run by for profit corporations (flat price controls, no market forces, no personal responsibility for incurred cost, linked to a job so you can't move around, plus the HMO have immunity from lawsuits if they screwed up, all run for a profit). Basically it was the worst of both socialist and capitalist systems, but it gave money and control to large corporations, unions and politicians. Obamacare just formalizes this more and codifies the power into the hands of bureaucrats. Now with no market pressures and no accountability I'm sure everything will work out for the best. In contrast look at plastic surgery and laser hair removal. Neither are covered under the HMO or Obamacare. Both have had a consistent 15 year decrease in prices with an increase in service. That is much more of a free market with consistent results that provide a better product for less money.

Harry_Seldon:tinfoil-hat maggie: ArmednHammered: Harry_Seldon: Quantum Apostrophe: It can't possibly the end of the cheap energy fiesta and people's priorities change as a consequence?

It is Obama's fault. The Clash for Clunkers program removed large numbers of perfectly good used vehicles from the market.

WHAT! I could have gotten The Clash for my clunker? Son of Biatch did I miss a deal!What the Clash might have looked like...

[i773.photobucket.com image 287x176]

You sir are brilliant : )

How funny, I really typed "Clash." Many years ago, I had to play "chaperone" for the members of The Clash in Los Angeles. They were doing a publicity event, and my job was to keep them out of trouble for the day.

lack of warmth:durbnpoisn: There is one big glaring problem with today's cars. Inspection. Here in NJ, where inspection is mandatory, the only way to pass is to plug the car into their computer, and presumably, they will tell you what is wrong with it. Nowadays ALL cars have to have these sorts of interfaces, even though they don't work with a shiat. Case in point... My wife's 1999 Volvo wouldn't pass because the check engine light is on. "Well, what do I need to fix?" "I don't know. The computer doesn't say. So I can't pass your car."

We were planning on saving that car for our son, who will be driving in a couple of years. But considering it will likely never pass inspection again, that doesn't seem likely.

Couple that with the cost of newer cars, gas, and insturance... I don't see how any teenager working at McDonalds could afford anything BUT their car, assuming they could afford even that.

CSBMy dad had a 2000 Ford Ranger that gave him the same problem. His mechanics couldn't get it fixed and he was at a loss for a vehicle. The code simply read #5 cylinder misfiring and the mechanics kept thinking electrical. So, he bought a 2010 F-150 and then used it to trailer the Ranger to me because MI doesn't have inspections. It runs so I just start driving it and doing my usual maintenance babying that I do to my cars. Two weeks after I got it the check engine light went off and eventually stayed off. The cure: fuel injector cleaner, it had a fouled injector causing the cylinder to not fire right.

The codes only give you the symptoms of the problem, a good mechanic can narrow down the exact problem. Sometimes you get a mechanic that is too single minded.

A pair of wire snips will also take care of that problem. Snip - No more check engine light. I know it isn't a good solution but it is a solution.

MonoChango:A pair of wire snips will also take care of that problem. Snip - No more check engine light. I know it isn't a good solution but it is a solution.

It may turn off the light, but it sure as fark does not turn off the code the ODBII reader will pickup as soon as you plug it in.

Not sure where everyone lives, but here you can't get an inspection if the CEL is on. So, don't farking go until it is fixed. Many times it is simply a bad sensor. If you want to see what is wrong before taking it to a mechanic, take it to AutoZone or other parts places and they will read your code for free. You can also get your own reader for well under 50 bucks (look at how much the price has dropped on this one, from $131,000 to $20. Bargain!). You can even reset codes, but some inspection stations will check for that. Get the code and the hit the net for what it may be. You may not always get the right answer, but you can get close. Better, you can have idea of what is wrong before you go to a mechanic. Now some codes may mask other issues, but generally this stuff is pretty farking good.

MonoChango:A pair of wire snips will also take care of that problem. Snip - No more check engine light. I know it isn't a good solution but it is a solution.

It won't get your car to pass inspection, though. When they do the inspection, they hook up a computer to your car. The same thing that makes your cars Check Engine light come on is going to tell the computer that there is a problem. It can also tell the computer "The battery has been disengaged recently and the car hasn't run enough since then to reset everything". Either way, the car won't pass inspection.

Cutting your wires to the Check Engine light will just keep you from seeing the light, they won't get it to pass the inspection.

What is the overlap between these various comment styles I see on fark, I wonder? And how many shop at walmart for the low prices subsidized by our taxes that help them remain fed, housed, and clothed for their services?

lolwat? crazy much?

ib4 they have employees on gomment assistance...like every other company (target,bestbuy,kroger,gamestop,wingstop,sears,jcpenny,any store in the mall)

bborchar:Smackledorfer: bborchar: Smackledorfer: bborchar: they think it's supposed to be easier because they have a degree.

Why shouldn't it be easier to find a job, or easier to find one with greater pay, when you have a degree? Think really hard before you answer, and realize that it is in reality easier to find a job and earn more pay by having a degree (even a filthy libby arts one, if the statistics I last read were correct).

bborchar: I remember filling out my tax return that year where I made $6K. For the entire year

Oh, you are a liar, nm then. That is what, less than 20 hours a week at 8 bucks an hour? I thought you were working full time? And you lived in Japan for a year and tasmania for a summer, all while working full time crappy jobs just to get by and once coming in at a 6k year?

Something smells trolly to me. I give you a 0/10 and the recommendation that you don't change lures so many times during a thread. Give one bait and action a chance for a few minutes and a little drifting time to cover some area with that method.

Japan- 2003, direct student exchange, since it was my major, and cost me no more than it did living in the states. I had a small stipend and a scholarship that paid for my round trip airfare.

Tasmania- 2004, oh, look at that- I had made friends in Japan and went and stayed with them the entire summer after my dad died. I charged my airfare and paid it off in about 6 months.

I made just over $6 an hour as a computer lab manager, but worked from 20-30 a week, which was considered full time on campus for students (we weren't allowed to work more). My sophomore year I had a second job, but I had to quit to go to Japan. I took out the minimum student loans for my tuition, and paid the rest if my expenses out of pocket. I ended up with less than 20K at the end of it, which is half paid off now, 7 years later. Could have completely paid it off, but we bought a house.

My apartment was in the crime laden area of town and cost me $260 a month. My car was a 1990 Buick, the same car I first bought in 1999 for $1000.

So no, I'm not trolling.

You never asked anyone for help but you had a scholarship and mooched off friends in japan? What a rough life your full time job was. I am sure you worked full time in japan too right?

Ohhh and you consider 20-30 hours full time? Lol.

Worked my way through college myself. Sometimes put in fifty hours, and I still wouldn't think of responding to a list of the job reality in our economy with 'all I can hear is waaaah'.

Guess you fail in reading comprehension. I didn't mooch off of anyone in Japan...I went there for school and still payed for it like I always did...it just didn't cost me more because I was part of an exchange. I taught English when I was over there. I stayed with my friends when I went to Tasmania, who also came over here and stayed for a while. That's what friends do for each other. I said the university considered it full time, so they wouldn't have to pay benefits to students. Which is why I also had a second job sometimes. And whether it was 20 hours or 50 hours a week (which I also did my sophomore year), the fact remained that I had to still support myself on that with rent, gas, food, books, utilities, etc.

And no, I didn't get any help from my parents, because they were caring for my great grandmother as she was dying and my nephew because my brother was a lazy a**hole who wouldn't raise him himself. I was 4 hours away from them, so there wasn't much they could help me with. They came twice, once for a football game and the next time for my graduation. I didn't go back often because I couldn't afford the gas or missing work. My point was that I never made any excuses for why I couldn't do something. I wanted to go to Japan ever since high school, so I found a way to go. I wanted to go to see my friends in Tasmania, so I went. My husband could only find a job that was 500 miles away from our families, so went went. I needed a job to help support us, so I worked lots of temp jobs and applied everywhere until I finally got a full time position. And when we wanted to buy a house, we saved up our money for three years to put down a deposit. When someone gives me a list of excuses why they "can't" do something, it means that they've already convinced themselves that they can't do it. If you're educated, smart, and hardworking, you just have to expand your horizons. Try jobs in other states (or countries, even). Of course, if you continue to think that I'm lying, that's your problem. My mom couldn't help me and my dad died in a halfway house, but I was obviously mooching off of someone.

Yes, mooching is what friends allow their friends to do when they are in need. It is not what people playing the 'i did it all on my own' card while mocking anyone else saying times are tough should be saying. You also said you had the second job just one year, and you quit that to enjoy the excellent opportunity to go overseas.

Your post is full of others helping you and you pretending you were the hardest worker of all time (who somehow earned 6k in one year, something that CANNOT be high hours even at minimum wage). You are either delusional and think you are being honest, or you are lying.

My first transportation was two-wheeled. I'd had summer jobs since I was in Junior high. Bought it when I turned 16. Sold it when I turned 18 and had graduated from high school. I had a great summer job lined up and a big down payment so I went to the dealer and ordered a new car.

The only east part was that the Olds dealer was my cousin so I could walk in and order a 1965 Cutlass with what I wanted. Faster than a 442 (the Olds version of a GTO). And cheaper to buy and operate. And a sleeper; only street (drag) race I ever lost was to a Mustang that was sleeperier.

MonoChango:lack of warmth: durbnpoisn: There is one big glaring problem with today's cars. Inspection. Here in NJ, where inspection is mandatory, the only way to pass is to plug the car into their computer, and presumably, they will tell you what is wrong with it. Nowadays ALL cars have to have these sorts of interfaces, even though they don't work with a shiat. Case in point... My wife's 1999 Volvo wouldn't pass because the check engine light is on. "Well, what do I need to fix?" "I don't know. The computer doesn't say. So I can't pass your car."

We were planning on saving that car for our son, who will be driving in a couple of years. But considering it will likely never pass inspection again, that doesn't seem likely.

Couple that with the cost of newer cars, gas, and insturance... I don't see how any teenager working at McDonalds could afford anything BUT their car, assuming they could afford even that.

CSBMy dad had a 2000 Ford Ranger that gave him the same problem. His mechanics couldn't get it fixed and he was at a loss for a vehicle. The code simply read #5 cylinder misfiring and the mechanics kept thinking electrical. So, he bought a 2010 F-150 and then used it to trailer the Ranger to me because MI doesn't have inspections. It runs so I just start driving it and doing my usual maintenance babying that I do to my cars. Two weeks after I got it the check engine light went off and eventually stayed off. The cure: fuel injector cleaner, it had a fouled injector causing the cylinder to not fire right.

The codes only give you the symptoms of the problem, a good mechanic can narrow down the exact problem. Sometimes you get a mechanic that is too single minded.

A pair of wire snips will also take care of that problem. Snip - No more check engine light. I know it isn't a good solution but it is a solution.

Heh... That might work. Or the computer might simply tell the sniffing computer that the wire is cut. They can already tell last time the computer was reset. This is why you have to drive 29 miles or so after a reset, or the computer will fail you for that.

Another story:I had my car in for inspection. Engine light was on. All they could tell me was, "There is something wrong with your cruise control." "Uh, this car doesn't HAVE cruise control." Nice....

So I unplugged the battery which reset the computer, got it inspected again, and the engine light has not come back since. Go figure.

We're making the next generation pay money they don't have for degrees they don't need for jobs that won't exist.

Like the Wall St Crash; things are slowly building to a head, and when it breaks, things will become very bad for EVERYONE, very quickly, without warning. And it will be unbprecedented, so no one will know what do do. The standard of living will be rocked like it's never been before for millions.

MonoChango:lack of warmth: durbnpoisn: There is one big glaring problem with today's cars. Inspection. Here in NJ, where inspection is mandatory, the only way to pass is to plug the car into their computer, and presumably, they will tell you what is wrong with it. Nowadays ALL cars have to have these sorts of interfaces, even though they don't work with a shiat. Case in point... My wife's 1999 Volvo wouldn't pass because the check engine light is on. "Well, what do I need to fix?" "I don't know. The computer doesn't say. So I can't pass your car."

We were planning on saving that car for our son, who will be driving in a couple of years. But considering it will likely never pass inspection again, that doesn't seem likely.

Couple that with the cost of newer cars, gas, and insturance... I don't see how any teenager working at McDonalds could afford anything BUT their car, assuming they could afford even that.

CSBMy dad had a 2000 Ford Ranger that gave him the same problem. His mechanics couldn't get it fixed and he was at a loss for a vehicle. The code simply read #5 cylinder misfiring and the mechanics kept thinking electrical. So, he bought a 2010 F-150 and then used it to trailer the Ranger to me because MI doesn't have inspections. It runs so I just start driving it and doing my usual maintenance babying that I do to my cars. Two weeks after I got it the check engine light went off and eventually stayed off. The cure: fuel injector cleaner, it had a fouled injector causing the cylinder to not fire right.

The codes only give you the symptoms of the problem, a good mechanic can narrow down the exact problem. Sometimes you get a mechanic that is too single minded.

A pair of wire snips will also take care of that problem. Snip - No more check engine light. I know it isn't a good solution but it is a solution.

While that helps you forget about it, here in TX when you get your inspection done they have to hook your car up to the OBD scanner. The light may not be on, but the code is still stored in the ECU. Depending on the code it may not matter (my old Dodge Ram used to give a low oil pressure error with check engine light that was common to them and eventually had a TSB to fix it) or it could be emissions related an you will fail. But you can pass with bad/no airbags and that light on.

I've been in some pretty bad ways before and always had a mode of transportation. You can buy a car that gets you from point A to B for under a grand. i know how to work on cars so I've bought cars for as low as $400 and fixed them for a ride. I also then sold those cars for $1,000 to $1,500.

Doesn't surprise me any. Have you seen cars today? The cheapest car Ford sells is still basically a spaceship. Even if they are 10 times more reliable than the ones we had coming up, how can we expect a teenager to afford the maintenance and repair on such a sophisticated machine? Not to mention insurance, gas etc etc.

Still, some of the best nights of my whole life were loading my buddies into a car and driving back and forth between the 5 or 6 hotspots in my suburban town just to see who was there, smoking cigarettes and trying to figure out where the girls were. I'm sure to anyone who came up in the age of cell phones, that sounds absolutely retarded, but it was pure freedom for us.

Oh on the scanner issue: i havw saved money by having a quicklube read it and googling before taking my car to the shop. You find fun stuff on forums like dozens of people fixing it the same way but scam mechanics trying three more expensive options first.

For as long as you live, there is going to be some reason why you can't achieve what you want. There will ALWAYS be some crisis that gives you an excuse to get indignant and then not try. And don't tell me about your 100 hour a week job searches, or getting turned down for a sperm bank janitor position. I don't care. The only reason I'm even responding is because your attitude is extremely common on Fark and one that I had for many years myself. In the end, I realized it was all just excuses. You have to make the decision to be successful and not concern yourself with the fates of the poor unwashed, or economic trends.

For as long as you live, there is going to be some reason why you can't achieve what you want. There will ALWAYS be some crisis that gives you an excuse to get indignant and then not try. And don't tell me about your 100 hour a week job searches, or getting turned down for a sperm bank janitor position. I don't care. The only reason I'm even responding is because your attitude is extremely common on Fark and one that I had for many years myself. In the end, I realized it was all just excuses. You have to make the decision to be successful and not concern yourself with the fates of the poor unwashed, or economic trends.

You know, for people like you and me, that's true. On my own behalf, I'm mostly just irritated--I know that, if the chips were down, I could support myself.

For thousands of other Americans, the 'poor unwashed' you're glibly referring to, no, that's not an option. When your home is so farked up you barely have a high school diploma, and the only people you know have ambitions of becoming a cook instead of a dishwasher...yeah. It might be hard to buy a car for them. And you might want to talk to people who don't live in your little bubble before spitting on people for not taking opportunities they were never granted in the first place.

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom:As a 17 year old, we have to deal with a unique situation in American societal history that no previous generations had to contend with. We don't have the access to opportunities that our grandparents did, or the promise of high paying jobs out of high school, or the ability to get a higher education without taking out loans.

I tried to get a summer job, and the only one offered to me was a courier at my step-dad's real estate company. I would have been out walking during the hottest part of the day, and only making $15 per hour.

Excuse us if we're content to stay home and make an impact on the world through blogs and social media instead of working for slave wages so we can live some antiquated American dream.

I always buy used cars with one of those riduculous 10 year loans that I pay off in two or three years then enjoy the next five or so years usually without any major repairs before age kicks in. Then I start calculating the difference between what I'm paying in repairs versus another loan payment.

It isn't the best system. I always say I'll pay cash for the next car. Yet I've never had to drive a clunker either.

cynicalminion:Voodoo_Stu: Thanks for the answers. I had to look up what Zipcar was, and it doesn't appear to be available in my city. I tend to buy a lot of heavy, bulky groceries at once, so backpacks usually wouldn't work. Personaly shopping carts eh... I might look into that. Be honest, though. Would I look like a hobo? I don't exactly want to get hassled..

Any one put a trailer on a bike?

again, that is THEFT. even if you bring it back, taking a shopping cart from a store off THEIR property, is theft. look into getting something on wheels. or just get one of those things they put kids in on the back of your bike. and use it for groceries instead of a kid.

Yeah, sorry, I meant the personal ones that MrEricSirsuggested buying from a hardware store. I would have just quoted him to avoid confusion, but was posting from my Xbox at the time and it's a bit of a pain to respond to others on. Also, more typos. Like "Personaly". And more annoying to browse on. But, now that I've seen what he's talking about, it wasn't what I was thinking, and doesn't look hoboesque at all, so it might fit my purposes.

But to others who think it's weird, the main reason I get so much at once is they often have deals if you buy more than $150 worth at once (and I get a bunch of frozen foods so things rarely go bad). Although, now that I've thought more about it, winter would also be a problem to overcome.

16 yrs old - 1960 VW Beetle, by 18 yrs old all of the mechanicals, i.e. brakes, motor, etc, had been rebuilt by none other than myself and the rest of the vw geek community that I chose to be a part of. That car was ugly as sin, fast as fark, and got me mo' betta 'tang than any of my friends were pulling(no bumpers, hood, use your imagination). The best part, I could fix the thing myself, no matter how expensive gas was, I could fill the tank, and it was really fast.

wingnut396:durbnpoisn: So I unplugged the battery which reset the computer, got it inspected again, and the engine light has not come back since. Go figure.

Sometimes a sensor goes wacky and the computer needs a reboot. Get a cheap scanner and you do with without losing the presets on your radio as well.

My brother has a couple of those scanners. It's not necessary for my car. But my wife's, unplugging the battery doesn't do a damn thing. So, the actual manual reset is the only option.In any case, those cumputers that are supposed to keep the car humming along are a royal PITA. They are so unreliable. They sometimes make the car run like shiat even when it should be working fine.

Me neither.. Got a 75 'vert sitting in the garage, waiting for a restoration.. It was my daily driver back in the early 90s until some asshole with a forged DL and bogus insurance rear-ended me,, I managed to pull out the sheet metal to allow the engine to run, limped home, and garaged it shortly thereafter.. It's been sitting ever since, and I've started off and on to source parts from Samba to rebuild the ass-end, as well as put new floor pans in it.. Since it's a Super Beetle the pans are more of a hassle to replace, but now that I've moved and have a separate garage just for the Bug, I'm planning on getting busy on it over the fall..

I'm going to buy my stepdaughter's first vehicle. A beat to hell truck. She'll pay for gas, I'll teach her to change the oil. I'll pay for the liability insurance. I'm thinking something along the lines of a late 80's Chevy half ton pickup. Preferably with a shiatty paint job, a V-6 and the dents will have dents.

wingnut396:MonoChango: A pair of wire snips will also take care of that problem. Snip - No more check engine light. I know it isn't a good solution but it is a solution.

It may turn off the light, but it sure as fark does not turn off the code the ODBII reader will pickup as soon as you plug it in.

Not sure where everyone lives, but here you can't get an inspection if the CEL is on. So, don't farking go until it is fixed. Many times it is simply a bad sensor. If you want to see what is wrong before taking it to a mechanic, take it to AutoZone or other parts places and they will read your code for free. You can also get your own reader for well under 50 bucks (look at how much the price has dropped on this one, from $131,000 to $20. Bargain!). You can even reset codes, but some inspection stations will check for that. Get the code and the hit the net for what it may be. You may not always get the right answer, but you can get close. Better, you can have idea of what is wrong before you go to a mechanic. Now some codes may mask other issues, but generally this stuff is pretty farking good.

Not being afraid of a little work can get you far. I do most of my own automotive work. On one of my cars I recently replaced the blown turbo, exhaust manifold, downpipe, and alternator. After I got it bolted back together the car threw a code. I got it read and the code came up as 'Insufficient Coolant Temperature". After some digging around it seems that when my particular car throws that code it's most commonly the front O2 sensor. I got a new sensor, muscled the old one out, got the new one in, lifted my battery cable to reset the code, and took it for emissions the next day. It passed just fine.

Being willing to do a little research and not being afraid of getting dirty goes a long way with modern cars. So either dive in yourself or get in good with someone with a stocked garage of tools and convince them to part with their free time.

/Car just blew the head gasket. Also due for the timing belt and water pump.//Not sure if I'll be lazy and pay someone or do it myself.///Money is tight right now, though...

robodog:The biggest problem is a tightening of the used market, between cash for clunkers, the decrease in production from 08-11, and the decrease in disposable income for the middle class there's been a very easily noticed increase in the cost of used cars. I've never owned a new car, always preferring to allow someone else to take the depreciation hit, but I'm very seriously considering it for my next vehicle as used cars are no longer the bargain that they used to be.

I see cars all over the place for sub 2k that run. Also, high school aged kids have always been "under employed" because most of them don't work. It was that way 10 years, 20 year, or even 50 years ago. The only really expensive thing comparatively is fuel costs. However, cars on average have better mileage than they did in the 70's and before. And if you are working 20 hour weeks at 8 bucks an hour you can sure as hell drive. Or you could be a bit more intelligent and do some carpooling with co-workers to save on fuel costs.

I also cannot understand this "Living back with mom when 30 mentality". Yeah, I can understand if you had a run of bad luck.. and need a stay-over place for 6 months to a year to get back on your feet. But the ones that have either never moved out or have moved out for less than half of their adulthood are just plain loosers

Kazrath:Also, high school aged kids have always been "under employed" because most of them don't work. It was that way 10 years, 20 year, or even 50 years ago

Compare the average age of entry-level "high school" jobs now to what they were 50 years ago. I bet the average age of a minimum wage worker wasn't over thirty years old fifty years ago.

Kazrath:I also cannot understand this "Living back with mom when 30 mentality".

In an economy where half the people working at McDonald's are over thirty, why do you have so little understanding of people who can't get a decent job choosing to save money? Followup: you do realize that it is only a recent and almost uniquely American concept for everyone to leave the nest at twenty, right? Multi-generation households are the norm in most of the world. The only reason that ever changed here was cheap cars and cheaper gas. Gas cost about 30 cents a gallon fifty years ago. Even ignoring job availability, as well as the value of a high school education for straight out of high school jobs (shop classes and tradeskill orientation are a whole lot slimmer pickings nowadays), the cost of gas has gone up quite a bit faster than the minimum wage. Now tack on the increasing cost of an education while you are at it.

I cannot understand how people can ignore the reality on the ground and judge people both as stupid for not magically getting good employment and at the same time call them stupid for not spending money they don't have.

Smackledorfer:Yes, mooching is what friends allow their friends to do when they are in need. It is not what people playing the 'i did it all on my own' card while mocking anyone else saying times are tough should be saying. You also said you had the second job just one year, and you quit that to enjoy the excellent opportunity to go overseas.

Your post is full of others helping you and you pretending you were the hardest worker of all time (who somehow earned 6k in one year, something that CANNOT be high hours even at minimum wage). You are either delusional and think you are being honest, or you are lying.

And when did I say that I was the "hardest worker of all time"? I did make 6k ONE YEAR, the last year I was there...one year I topped out at 10-11k...WOW. I was rich. I don't see what my trips to Australia or Japan had to do with crap, since I still paid for them. Even when I went to Australia, I still had to pay my bills at home...they didn't "magically" disappear

The point of my post was that people need to stop coming up with excuses why they can't do something and find a way TO do it. This obviously excludes people incapable for reasons of illness or disability. But everyone wants to tell college students that their overwhelming debt they racked up during college isn't their fault...well, that's not true. Just like the people that bought houses that were too expensive for them aren't absolved of responsibility. Simply because you can get the money doesn't mean you should. So these adults are graduating college needing a 6-figure salary to pay their debts and live independently, and are crushed by the reality that they won't get that. Then they complain about it, because they have to stay at home and can't afford a car, rent or insurance. You don't have to be the "hardest worker of all time" to not be in that situation, but you do have to make better choices and work along the way...that was MY point. I chose a cheaper, in-state public university, and I lived off-campus in the ghetto district with a ghetto car, so that when I had the opportunity to DO the things I wanted to do came up- like go to Japan or Australia, or move to another state and look for work- I was able to do that and live independently, because I knew that I had no support back home. I'm fully onboard with student loan reform, but I don't think anyone should be expecting the government to magically whisk away their debt simply because they took too much money out and can't repay it.

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom:I tried to get a summer job, and the only one offered to me was a courier at my step-dad's real estate company. I would have been out walking during the hottest part of the day, and only making $15 per hour.

Aren't you the guy who is always complaining that you are held down because you are black. And now you are posting how a $15 an hour job isn't good enough for you?

Smackledorfer:Kazrath: Also, high school aged kids have always been "under employed" because most of them don't work. It was that way 10 years, 20 year, or even 50 years ago

Compare the average age of entry-level "high school" jobs now to what they were 50 years ago. I bet the average age of a minimum wage worker wasn't over thirty years old fifty years ago.

Kazrath: I also cannot understand this "Living back with mom when 30 mentality".

In an economy where half the people working at McDonald's are over thirty, why do you have so little understanding of people who can't get a decent job choosing to save money? Followup: you do realize that it is only a recent and almost uniquely American concept for everyone to leave the nest at twenty, right? Multi-generation households are the norm in most of the world. The only reason that ever changed here was cheap cars and cheaper gas. Gas cost about 30 cents a gallon fifty years ago. Even ignoring job availability, as well as the value of a high school education for straight out of high school jobs (shop classes and tradeskill orientation are a whole lot slimmer pickings nowadays), the cost of gas has gone up quite a bit faster than the minimum wage. Now tack on the increasing cost of an education while you are at it.

I cannot understand how people can ignore the reality on the ground and judge people both as stupid for not magically getting good employment and at the same time call them stupid for not spending money they don't have.

First lets address the fuel costs. I already indicated they are a little skewed but not as bad as you think. At 30 cents a gallon when minimum wage was 1 dollar would make fuel about 70% more expensive now. However, as I have also indicated fuel economy is better now. I am not going to figure out all of the maths but I bet is is in the 30-50% more expensive range per mile.

Since you know nothing about me and assume a bunch of BS let me inform you:

Why does 30 year olds living with mom bother me? Lets see. Maybe it is called self respect? I moved out while I was still in high school at 17 after getting into a pretty brutal fist fight with my step father (We now get along great 18 years later). I have never stepped into a single college class and yet have some how managed to keep a roof over my head for 18 years. How? Sacrifice and making good choices. At 17 I stayed at a friends to finish out high school (about 4 months) then went and worked at a resort for a little over a year. At 19 I was living with 11 other 17-19 year olds in a 4 bedroom house with a garage. We slept 2 to a room and all worked when we could. Eventually at 20 I found a solid full time job making about 2 bucks more than minimum wage. Moved out with 1 other guy and lived with him for several years. I currently make around double the median household income for this state.

I am not Republican, I don't vote Republican, most of their views are just wrong. However, I also cannot forgive people who do not try. I am inherently lazy and yet have managed to make it. Sure, I am probably naturally more talented than average but being a lazy ass that means that someone who actually is not lazy and actually tries should be able to accomplish similar or more.

And finally, If there is a choice of only one thing you should ever be able to do in this life it should be the ability to take care of yourself. If as an adult you require someone else to take care of you and you are not at some inherent disadvantage (mental / physical handicap etc.) then you are indeed a loser.

"Oh, get a job? Just get a job? Why don't I strap on my job helmet, and squeeze into a job cannon and fire off into job land, where jobs grow on jobbies!"- Charlie Day, It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia

bongon247:Warlordtrooper: What jobs subby? What jobs are available out there? There are far more people looking for work then there are jobs for them.

Try going to your local stables and offering to shovel shiat...

I've done that. But that doesn't mean there are a lot of jobs doing that around here. Also, the job was a lot more than mucking stalls. It was also caring for the horses and taking tourists out on trail rides. You don't get handed responsibility of a dozen idiots on horseback without being a damn skilled equestrian and having a few other important skills (like basic first aid).

Kazrath:Why does 30 year olds living with mom bother me? Lets see. Maybe it is called self respect?

Depends on your situation. Moving out as soon as possible is a relatively new thing for families. For quite some time, it is was perfectly fine to live in a family house or extended house. This allow young people to leverage older member of the family to help watch and raise children. It allows the older member to have younger members around for support. It is not a bad thing in an of itself. In many parts of the world, this is still the norm. Granted in the industrialized world, it can be more difficult if some members need to move for schools, career and the like.

Personally, I moved out fairly soon, but in hind sight it was pretty farking stupid. I didn't have the problems you did, but I went to incur rental and all those other expenses because otherwise you were a loser. I should have stayed home and saved that money instead. I pretty much had an apartment like area of the house anyway. I'll have no problem if my kids want to stay for a while.

wingnut396:Kazrath: Why does 30 year olds living with mom bother me? Lets see. Maybe it is called self respect?

Depends on your situation. Moving out as soon as possible is a relatively new thing for families. For quite some time, it is was perfectly fine to live in a family house or extended house. This allow young people to leverage older member of the family to help watch and raise children. It allows the older member to have younger members around for support. It is not a bad thing in an of itself. In many parts of the world, this is still the norm. Granted in the industrialized world, it can be more difficult if some members need to move for schools, career and the like.

Personally, I moved out fairly soon, but in hind sight it was pretty farking stupid. I didn't have the problems you did, but I went to incur rental and all those other expenses because otherwise you were a loser. I should have stayed home and saved that money instead. I pretty much had an apartment like area of the house anyway. I'll have no problem if my kids want to stay for a while.

==========

There are quite a few Indian (as in South Asian) families that live around here. I don't know of a single household that is just kids and parents. Usually it's grandparents, kids, grand-kids, unmarried aunts/uncles/cousins, etc. BTW, they all have nice new cars.

wingnut396:Kazrath: Why does 30 year olds living with mom bother me? Lets see. Maybe it is called self respect?

Depends on your situation. Moving out as soon as possible is a relatively new thing for families. For quite some time, it is was perfectly fine to live in a family house or extended house. This allow young people to leverage older member of the family to help watch and raise children. It allows the older member to have younger members around for support. It is not a bad thing in an of itself. In many parts of the world, this is still the norm. Granted in the industrialized world, it can be more difficult if some members need to move for schools, career and the like.

Personally, I moved out fairly soon, but in hind sight it was pretty farking stupid. I didn't have the problems you did, but I went to incur rental and all those other expenses because otherwise you were a loser. I should have stayed home and saved that money instead. I pretty much had an apartment like area of the house anyway. I'll have no problem if my kids want to stay for a while.

This.

Throughout most of human history, people lived with or very close to their extended families and supported each other. Imagine that. This whole bootstrappy nonsense where you're not a real man unless you left home at 14, worked three jobs, ate dirt, and financed your PhD by selling your blood plasma is baloney.

As to the issue at hand, some reasons off the top of my head why today's youth do not yearn for a car:

1) They are more connected online2) Insurance is ridiculously expensive3) Home entertainment is on par with going out4) No money - youth unemployment is quite high. And those with a job are lucky to get 10 hrs/wk.5) There's nowhere to goa) suburbia has pretty much killed hangouts like dirt roads, vacant lots, long straight roads for racingb) teens are no longer welcome in public - just read any "kid thread" on Fark. Minors are the only group of humans left that are socially acceptable to declare your hatred for, and so people do. It's gotten to the point where even shopping malls ban teenagers unless accompanied by a parent.