I actually find that post offensive Pablo. I don't need a reality check... I'm only talking about not taxing levels that are CLEARLY levels needed to survive in this country. I'm offended that you would take 3rd world country living conditions and make that the standard. In this country there is zero reason for any person to not have a way off the street. if a poor person decides to buy an ipod instead of food, that is they mistake, but we should allow them to make that. I'm offended that you are telling me I need to go to a 3rd world country when I have been on the front lines for short trip, some of my friends are on the front lines for extended periods whom I support, and my wife and I are on the front lines in the middle of adopting 2 children from Ethiopia. I'm offended that you would use others plight to say that we don't need to consider the poor here.

I actually find that post offensive Pablo. I don't need a reality check... I'm only talking about not taxing levels that are CLEARLY levels needed to survive in this country. I'm offended that you would take 3rd world country living conditions and make that the standard. In this country there is zero reason for any person to not have a way off the street. if a poor person decides to buy an ipod instead of food, that is they mistake, but we should allow them to make that. I'm offended that you are telling me I need to go to a 3rd world country when I have been on the front lines for short trip, some of my friends are on the front lines for extended periods whom I support, and my wife and I are on the front lines in the middle of adopting 2 children from Ethiopia. I'm offended that you would use others plight to say that we don't need to consider the poor here.

We should allow them to make that mistake? I've had plenty of friends over the years that grew up in families that lived off welfare. Flat screen TV's, PS3's, Xboxes, all of the luxury items you could ever imagine, yet never an incentive to get off welfare. And they paid between $0.25 to $25 a month in section 8 housing rent.

The welfare system isn't about a helping hand anymore, its a way of life. I commend you for your actions, but that you're naive that most of the poor actually need the help. Ethiopian poor isn't the same as United States poor. The majority has realized that the being a member of the welfare class is easier than being a member of the working class. Look at the poorest cities in the US and every single one of them is run by "The champions of the poor," the democrats. You'd think under these programs that the % of poor would go down, not jump to record highs. They want more poor people. Its a control. And its hard to be a champion of a class of people if they no longer exist. There is a way off the street. Unfortunately, its not the easiest path, and the "safety net" of a system is actually equal too if not better than the first step off the street. So why would they bother? Lower the net to a lower standard and watch how quickly people scatter off it.

Steensn, I actually know people that got $6K back in taxes above what they paid in because of EIC and other bullshit. It isn't right. Why should people work and pay their taxes just so others don't have to and benefit off of their labor? I feel a John Galt movement coming on at this point. These people have nice cars, flat screen TVs, blackberries, and subsidized government housing. Why? Get a freaking job and live within your means. I can't afford unlimited minutes and neither should those sitting on their butts.

As for the London riots, bring it on! In England, most police don't carry guns, as well as the populace. Try breaking into my house and you'll get a 9 MM hole in your forehead. That would be the case in a lot of homes or businesses in America today. If you act stupid, there's a very good chance that you will die. That threat doesn't exist in the UK, but it does here. That's why it won't happen en masse in this country.

_________________

August 17th, 2011, 1:32 am

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3056Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: Stop Coddling the Super-Rich

Here's a little tid bit for you to Sly's point about receiving for nothing.

There is not a broad advertising campaign in our area, and I've heard in other states that you can receive a free cell phone, text capable, and 250 FREE minutes if you qualify.

How do you qualify? By having a limited income or no income.

It amazes me how things like this become a right instead of a priviledge. How many of the people who "qualify" smoke? give up the cigarettes and you could own a home, a car and a cell phone. (well they'd have to give up the alcohol too, to get all of it.)

I honestly believe that an effort is out there to make it more profitable to go on government assistance, than it is to work for what you have. It's about control! On government assistance they control where you live, what you eat, what your medical care is, and whether or not you have power, as long as you meet their criteria. However, if you wish to work for all that you have an want, the government isnt in control.

Obama has pushed legislation to stream line this process, and pretty soon we will have a control full of Ray Nagy's, hot tub in the front room for doing nothing mentality. It is a new form of slavery without the constraints of race, and we are running into the arms of almighty uncle tom, who's selling his people out, lock stock and barrel.

_________________Acts 4:13, 1 Cor. 2:1-5, Rom. 12:1-2

August 17th, 2011, 8:22 am

steensn

RIP Killer

Joined: June 26th, 2006, 1:03 pmPosts: 13429

Re: Stop Coddling the Super-Rich

njroar wrote:

steensn wrote:

I actually find that post offensive Pablo. I don't need a reality check... I'm only talking about not taxing levels that are CLEARLY levels needed to survive in this country. I'm offended that you would take 3rd world country living conditions and make that the standard. In this country there is zero reason for any person to not have a way off the street. if a poor person decides to buy an ipod instead of food, that is they mistake, but we should allow them to make that. I'm offended that you are telling me I need to go to a 3rd world country when I have been on the front lines for short trip, some of my friends are on the front lines for extended periods whom I support, and my wife and I are on the front lines in the middle of adopting 2 children from Ethiopia. I'm offended that you would use others plight to say that we don't need to consider the poor here.

We should allow them to make that mistake? I've had plenty of friends over the years that grew up in families that lived off welfare. Flat screen TV's, PS3's, Xboxes, all of the luxury items you could ever imagine, yet never an incentive to get off welfare. And they paid between $0.25 to $25 a month in section 8 housing rent.

The welfare system isn't about a helping hand anymore, its a way of life. I commend you for your actions, but that you're naive that most of the poor actually need the help. Ethiopian poor isn't the same as United States poor. The majority has realized that the being a member of the welfare class is easier than being a member of the working class. Look at the poorest cities in the US and every single one of them is run by "The champions of the poor," the democrats. You'd think under these programs that the % of poor would go down, not jump to record highs. They want more poor people. Its a control. And its hard to be a champion of a class of people if they no longer exist. There is a way off the street. Unfortunately, its not the easiest path, and the "safety net" of a system is actually equal too if not better than the first step off the street. So why would they bother? Lower the net to a lower standard and watch how quickly people scatter off it.

First, I'm not promoting welfare, I'm promoting not taxing the first x% calculated and without question is required to simply live in our society with a roof and food. No where have I suggested welfare, why do you guys keep jumping away from the very simple and basic concept?

Second, I didn't bring up third world countries, Pablo did. I know the difference... don't start this welfare nonsense.

Steensn, I actually know people that got $6K back in taxes above what they paid in because of EIC and other bullshit. It isn't right. Why should people work and pay their taxes just so others don't have to and benefit off of their labor? I feel a John Galt movement coming on at this point. These people have nice cars, flat screen TVs, blackberries, and subsidized government housing. Why? Get a freaking job and live within your means. I can't afford unlimited minutes and neither should those sitting on their butts.

As for the London riots, bring it on! In England, most police don't carry guns, as well as the populace. Try breaking into my house and you'll get a 9 MM hole in your forehead. That would be the case in a lot of homes or businesses in America today. If you act stupid, there's a very good chance that you will die. That threat doesn't exist in the UK, but it does here. That's why it won't happen en masse in this country.

I still can't get the inner commie out though that sees the less income rich persons need to contribute a lesser % if it is a matter of eating your next meal or not and paying rent.

Inner commie? The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem to begin with. Seek help before it's too late.

Under my above proposal, the very poor would pay no tax, while the percentage of your income subject to tax would increase along with your income upto 15%. For instance, single dude making $20K would pay an effective $7.5% rate. Single guy making $30K would pay an effective 10% rate. Someone making $100K, would have an effective rate of 13.5%. Those making atleast a million would be very close to the full 15% though.

What would a single mom of three pay making $20k? Your proposal sounds pretty much the same as the current system without EIC and loopholes....

I actually find that post offensive Pablo. I don't need a reality check... I'm only talking about not taxing levels that are CLEARLY levels needed to survive in this country. I'm offended that you would take 3rd world country living conditions and make that the standard. In this country there is zero reason for any person to not have a way off the street. if a poor person decides to buy an ipod instead of food, that is they mistake, but we should allow them to make that. I'm offended that you are telling me I need to go to a 3rd world country when I have been on the front lines for short trip, some of my friends are on the front lines for extended periods whom I support, and my wife and I are on the front lines in the middle of adopting 2 children from Ethiopia. I'm offended that you would use others plight to say that we don't need to consider the poor here.

We do need to consider the poor here, what we need to consider them is equal and not helpless. I'm offended that people look down on other people, think they are not capable of fending for themselves.

There are tons of opportunities here, for everyone. That was my point in bringing up 3rd world countries where few if any oppportunities exist. I totally agree with you when you said "In this country there is zero reason for any person to not have a way off the street" - we just approach it from very different ways. You seem to want to "help" the person get off the street, nice gesture, but you don't address what puts the person on the street to begin with. And you won't unless they themselves, get themselves off the street.

I also disagre that 12-15% of wages will make the difference between food and no food. I can't say in 100% of all cases it will make no difference, but I'm not sure where you can actually show it makes a difference either. Now you have to get the gov't involved making decisions on peoples lives - how much do they need to survive, how much they need to spend on housing, food, etc.

Good luck in the adoption process steensn and get plenty of rest now cause kids will wear you out my friend. Keep us updated, that is very exciting!

Pablo, if you are telling me that $600-$700 doesn't make the world of difference for those making $10-$20k with kids I think you are out of touch here. I can as well point to those who take their money and find ways to make it work for them to get ipads and live in a crap hole. I'm saying at that point it is their decision. But I don't want to be the person between them living in a craphole with no safety and having the option to get out away from that life just because we think they should "pay their fair share." I'll gladly pay their $700 if it means they can live a little more secure.

Thanks for the comment on the adoption... we are on the waiting list but once we get a referral we will be in a whirlwind.

I still can't get the inner commie out though that sees the less income rich persons need to contribute a lesser % if it is a matter of eating your next meal or not and paying rent.

Inner commie? The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem to begin with. Seek help before it's too late.

Under my above proposal, the very poor would pay no tax, while the percentage of your income subject to tax would increase along with your income upto 15%. For instance, single dude making $20K would pay an effective $7.5% rate. Single guy making $30K would pay an effective 10% rate. Someone making $100K, would have an effective rate of 13.5%. Those making atleast a million would be very close to the full 15% though.

What would a single mom of three pay making $20k? Your proposal sounds pretty much the same as the current system without EIC and loopholes....

First thing I would ask is why is she single w/3 kids?

_________________

Quote:

Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....

August 17th, 2011, 10:14 am

steensn

RIP Killer

Joined: June 26th, 2006, 1:03 pmPosts: 13429

Re: Stop Coddling the Super-Rich

Husband died and was the breadwinner. Of all people I wouldn't expect you Wags to need a reason.

Hubby should've probably had some life insurance. Not too mention she'll get Social Security for the kids (from said hubby).

Well he didn't because they were already living paycheck to paycheck, so now what? Let the kids starve because I think they should give their fair share?

Sounds like they couldn't afford the 3 kids they had, therefore they have no one to blame but themselves. Time for her to dig deep and find a way to make it work. I'm sure there is help she can find in her state. For example, most states that I know of have programs to ensure the children have healthy foods (WIC). Also, IIRC all children now have health insurance so that will take care of those expenses. Bottom line is there are ways to get things done, you just have to do it (sorry Nike).