I think the "Bob" reference to me was aimed at the name itself. Like in the episode where Frasier's friend is named Bob. Spelled the same way, forwards and back. Not to disrespect any "Bobs" out there, but for some reason it's not a name people like much. Niles even says Frasier's friends name as "Bob?" I personally doubt whether there was any reference to Bob Crane, although I'm 51 and well remember Hogan's Heroes. This is all IMHO however.

On the fashion thing, it was interesting for me to note that in the first season Frasier dressed a lot like he had in Cheers, with those ridiculous sweater vests, plus the Bozo hair too.

chrisj wrote:I think the "Bob" reference to me was aimed at the name itself. Like in the episode where Frasier's friend is named Bob. Spelled the same way, forwards and back. Not to disrespect any "Bobs" out there, but for some reason it's not a name people like much. Niles even says Frasier's friends name as "Bob?" I personally doubt whether there was any reference to Bob Crane, although I'm 51 and well remember Hogan's Heroes. This is all IMHO however.

On the fashion thing, it was interesting for me to note that in the first season Frasier dressed a lot like he had in Cheers, with those ridiculous sweater vests, plus the Bozo hair too.

Just my two cents.

Oh no, it was definitely Niles thinking BOB CRANE? No way! It was a direct reference to Bob Crane and his rather questionable death! (or his rather questionable life!)

Totally agree with the fashion thing. Kelsey's Bozo hair in those first two seasons makes me nuts!

Yep, 51 alright. I guess I should read up on old Bob Crane's bio to see why he gave Bobs all over such a bad name! I remember when he was murdered. Wasn't he stabbed outside his front door or something? Anyway, that part seemed unremarkable to me. I will research that though.

Honestly, when I saw Niles erasing the name Bob Crane, I thought it was just his aversion to the name Bob, as he had expressed displeasure at it previously.

"You get the one, you get that other one! Oh, you are SO that other one!"

chrisj wrote:Yep, 51 alright. I guess I should read up on old Bob Crane's bio to see why he gave Bobs all over such a bad name! I remember when he was murdered. Wasn't he stabbed outside his front door or something? Anyway, that part seemed unremarkable to me. I will research that though.

Honestly, when I saw Niles erasing the name Bob Crane, I thought it was just his aversion to the name Bob, as he had expressed displeasure at it previously.

Bob Crane was murdered in some weird sado-masochistic sex triangle! It was all very strange. A lot of it was covered up and swept under the rug but for some reason I'm thinking when he was found he was in some leather and chain kinky stuff. At least that was the rumor at the time. Whether or not that was true, I don't know but it's what was commonly thought of.

Crane was discovered violently bludgeoned to death with a weapon that was never found but believed to be a camera tripod at the Winfield Place Apartments in Scottsdale, Arizona, where he had been appearing in a dinner theatre production of a play entitled Beginner's Luck at the Windmill Dinner Theatre.

"You get the one, you get that other one! Oh, you are SO that other one!"

Friends seem dated now due to their always 'up to the minute' fashion sense and appartment decorations, but Frasier on the other hand always has fairly classical designs and old school smart suits. The facre and wit type humor is fairly old fashioned aswell, that is why I think it is failry timeless.

Frasier is timeless. Everyone else has hit it on the head. Frasier's dress was classic, along with Niles. Everyone has a father, uncle or grandfather that sits in flannel shirts and white socks like Martin. I would say that Daphne and Roz's hairstyles are a bit in the past, but they are so beautiful you don't really notice.

The humor is always going to be there no matter what. Hell, I still watch the Golden Girls and I laugh at that old show.

Perhaps the lighting and fashion (and those huge cell phones!) looks dated, but I think because "Frasier" writers avoided decade-specific pop culture references as a general rule, that the show will always be relevant and timeless.

Frasier: "Niles, do you think I'm an elitest?"Niles: "Of course I do, Frasier. You needn't worry about that."

The jokes will always be appreciated for a long time, everything I can think about the show is also timeless! Frasier's apartment was decorated in such a timeless way! It'll always be considered somewhat 'modern'. Same applies for Niles' apartment and house, and basically all the settings are modern.

Niles: As some illustrious person once said, popularity is the hallmark of mediocrity.

Laurel & Hardy looks dated (anyone seen a Model T lately?) but it doesn't stop it from being funny as hell.

Frasier might look dated over the years, but it's certainly not the fault of anyone on the show.It's the fate of all shows set in the real world.

Another thought that comes to me, most shows are made for the here and now with no thoughts of immortality. As far as anyone knows at the time, the show will stink and die on it's arse, or drop in quality and every season could be the last.It might seem mercenary, but I feel like there is less an attempt to make a timeless work or art and more of "let's make a funny show that we can sell to the TV so we can get paid". So there is no consideration about how dated the show will look in 20 years, and no solution to the problem if it occurs to somebody

It's very 90's and in a really good way, but I think people have forgotten how really superb Frasier was. Shows like "Big Bang Theory" and "Two and a half men" have gotten big the last few years, and they have their audience no doubt. Nothing has been on tv comedically that matches up to "Frasier", yet people (not us) have forgotten. I don't think they syndicated it well, putting it on Lifetime. LIfetime is known for spousal abuse of the week/disease of the week movies, and I think placing "Frasier" there has limited the ability to build a new audience.

Frasier, Friends and Seinfeld (to take the channels big hitters of the time as a whole) will all be watched by new audiences in the future. i can't see anything that dates Friends any more than Frasier. They all obviously have a 90s feel but are all relatable to any era, and easily well enough written, to watch whenever.

I agree I'm a Gen Xer so the 90's were my hayday! I have settled down now and have a family and a professional job but I'm still the girl that loves Grunge, Steve Jobs, Bill Clinton, Seinfeld and Frasier

mickeba wrote:I don't think Friends stands the test of time at all. It was popular, but I don't think it's classic tv whatsoever. It was pop culture fluff in the day, it always will be.

I'd tend to disagree there. Granted, i obviously prefer Frasier -- but good writing is good writing, whatever the context. Fair enough not to personally like the show, but the best episodes of Friends are, imo, up there with the best of any other comedy show and it'll easily stand the test of time (as much as any show can as the decades pass). NBC will have an income from the rights to each of their big three 90s comedies for a while to come.

I think to call it pop culture fluff is dismissing some excellent writing for a show that was regularly amongst the awards nominations.

Mind, i feel the same about Everybody Loves Raymond as you do about Friends, so i struggle to appreciate its writing, longevity and awards. I'm not a fan, but i can see it having a fanbase for many years.

mickeba wrote:I don't think Friends stands the test of time at all. It was popular, but I don't think it's classic tv whatsoever. It was pop culture fluff in the day, it always will be.

I'd tend to disagree there. Granted, i obviously prefer Frasier -- but good writing is good writing, whatever the context. Fair enough not to personally like the show, but the best episodes of Friends are, imo, up there with the best of any other comedy show and it'll easily stand the test of time (as much as any show can as the decades pass). NBC will have an income from the rights to each of their big three 90s comedies for a while to come.

I think to call it pop culture fluff is dismissing some excellent writing for a show that was regularly amongst the awards nominations.

Mind, i feel the same about Everybody Loves Raymond as you do about Friends, so i struggle to appreciate its writing, longevity and awards. I'm not a fan, but i can see it having a fanbase for many years.

Post of the year so far. I agree with everything you say. Especially the last couple of sentences.

welshben23 wrote:I agree with everything you say. Especially the last couple of sentences.

Heh, i remember our shared dislike. Do you ever try watching Raymond again? I'll occasionally watch episodes on Comedy Central, but i just can't get into it. I don't even mind Ray Romano, but the aggravating mother is just a little too aggravating for me to enjoy. For me it's like watching Frasier if Daphne's mother had been in every episode as a regular from the beginning

welshben23 wrote:I agree with everything you say. Especially the last couple of sentences.

Heh, i remember our shared dislike. Do you ever try watching Raymond again? I'll occasionally watch episodes on Comedy Central, but i just can't get into it. I don't even mind Ray Romano, but the aggravating mother is just a little too aggravating for me to enjoy. For me it's like watching Frasier if Daphne's mother had been in every episode as a regular from the beginning

If the episode features Frank or Robert a lot then I occasionally watch it as I do find both of them genuinely funny. But like you I can't get into it. I must be the only person that didn't really mind Daphne's mother I'd rather watch every episode that she appeared in on a 24-hour loop than watch an episode of Raymond that is 'Marie centric'.