Slashdot videos: Now with more Slashdot!

View

Discuss

Share

We've improved Slashdot's video section; now you can view our video interviews, product close-ups and site visits with all the usual Slashdot options to comment, share, etc. No more walled garden! It's a work in progress -- we hope you'll check it out (Learn more about the recent updates).

Scoop Snookems writes "Will there be a day where we earn achievement points simply by brushing our teeth or high-fiving a friend? There could be, according to Carnegie Mellon professor Jesse Schell. In this video from the annual DICE summit, Schell comments on recent evolutions in gaming before fixating on a concept where our futures evolve into one big RPG. Fascinating stuff, and I hope writing this post nets me 10 points."

Ho hum. A non-article. Video games are close enough to reality*. Police Quest vs. being a real policeman, for example, where 80% of both is banal tedium like "show your badge" and "knock on door" and "fill paperwork". Or like working life vs. WoW - spend 90% of life performing mindless, repetitive acts to hoard enough money to buy stuff and have a little fun every now and then. Or Nightshade [wikipedia.org], possibly the first game to feature a "popularity meter" (karma?):

Higher popularity meant greater recognition by everyday denizens of Metro City and allowed Nightshade access to more areas.

And, of course it should work both ways. Eventually people cease to receive points for wiping their ass or washing their balls and begin to lose points for not doing either.

I actually caught myself thinking like I was in a game once. I was going hiking recently and thought, "Hey, if I climb that peak I'll be one away from satisfying the 'Climb the Highest Peaks' achievement." I was creeped out and amused at the same time.

This is why I love going to the gym so much, no joke. Well part of it is having better physique, but getting to go from 110lbs to 180lbs on the incline dumbbell press is a lot of fun. You can even use rare-candies in the form of protein shakes after working out.

Facebook is a video game too, you try to get more posts on your wall by coming up with clever/funny/interesting status updates.

I do believe you meant to say "Shogun", a game published in 1988 whose sole objective was to become popular enough to hold the title "zen master". You could achieve it through the usual benevolent acts of kindness, or killing anyone who didn't agree to like you. Very enlightening game for a 7 year old, let me tell you what.

Life is already like an RPG to me... or rather, an Adventure/RPG hybrid. The main difference being that instead of the emphasis being on leveling up, a lot more is placed on collecting useful items that serve unique functions.

For example I recently acquired the Spyglass item when I found a monocular small and rugged enough to keep in my cargo pants. This goes along with my Lantern (actually two items... LED flashlight for light and propane lighter for lighting things on fire).

I do something similar to this but in periods of acquire and slim down. I don't hoard or have too many redundant items (like people who have eight different shotguns or whatever) but what i have is usually very nice. Camping pack is nice and probably done.. lots of titanium and everything is water-proofed (including zippers).. the best part is that it's so light. I still have a backup bag fully packed too, my old army ruck. Tritium Compass (radioactive self-illumination).

I think the big draw for people who want more and more realistic games and RPGs in particular is actually to get a few things that I think everyone has wanted at one point or another in their real lives:

* Knowing the rules by which you can succeed (quests, boss kills, catalogue of increasingly better equipment)* Getting data on your level of success in relation to others and against your own personal goals. (stats, levels, reputation meters)* A sense of having achieved something measurable, even if it is to simply get a new piece of gear that exists only on a hard drive.

The more realistic the game is, the more that they can pretend that there is some relevance to real life in that game. The secret hope being that some day, there will be a simulator that allows you to get a score for how you would do in real life or at least some skills that cross over.

You *could* get points for doing various things in real life, and I think in some ways it is not a laughable concept. People want data, they want to know that what they are doing is benefiting them in some way. They don't always know that, and that is a substantial barrier to happiness. Things would be so much easier if I had a reputation meter for various people, particularly of the opposite sex, and also knew what to grind to improve that reputation without the complexities of trying to balance earning cash while having a social life. You might say life might get a lot more boring if you always knew the rules, but it's quite clear that millions of people prefer a grind to the "excitement" of being surprised.

You *could* get points for doing various things in real life, and I think in some ways it is not a laughable concept.

Speaking of real-life application, the new Pokemon HeartGold and Soulsilver [wikipedia.org] has a pedometer that, when you tie a Pokemon to it and walk around, it gains experience and more happiness towards you (as... well, you're walking around with it in a way), including other benefits. Perhaps the future is now?..

I'm not sure I agree. I mean, maybe a little. Mostly, I think the rules are pretty clear. They only seem confusing because the things required aren't easily obtainable (if they are obtainable at all).

I think the real reason for the popularity of MMORPGs and why they consume some people's entire lives, really come down to two things.

1.) In a video game everyone is equalIn WoW, if you are a paladin, you are have the same abilities as other paladins If you want to be a priest - you can be a priest. Whatever image of yourself you want; you can be, and you can be it as good as anyone else.

In real life, that's not true. If you are 5'2" and want to play in the NBA - that's too bad. We aren't all equal. You can't decide to roll a character with the base stats that support what you want to do. You can't reroll to get more +INT to be a famous scientist. You are, you. And you can work to improve yourself, but you're very limited and what is worse - other people aren't.

Most of us are just 'average' at most things. We don't like to think that, but it's true. If you have an average aptitude and work really hard, you might be 'really good'...but you won't be great. Most of us won't be great at anything. Do you think the popular guy who banged the hottest girls in high school was more deserving than the unpopular, ugly nerd? Or did he just happen to be more with symmetrical features that made him popular with the ladies?

In life, you are stuck with your base levels and other people are blessed with higher base levels and can outperform you with minimal effort. In WoW, you roll whatever you want and know you are equal.

2.) EffortIn games there really isn't much effort at all. The trend has been to remove skill from the game play and replace it with 'time'. If you spend a lot of time playing, your character becomes better. The time spent isn't particularly hard. It's lazy. You click a mouse, hit a button. That's not tough.

You can just sit back, spend a lot of time not doing much, and be rewarded! Your character grows and improves and you get cool stuff and respect from other players and you rock.

In real life, things are *hard*. Like, really hard. A lot harder than people think they should be. In Wow, you hit '2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 1, 2, 2, 1' for a few hours and your Warrior levels up and now he's stronger and has more hit points. But to increase *your strength* you have to get up and go to the gym and train properly. And then, the rewards are an order of magnitude less.

The difference between what a world-class power lifter can lift is 2-3x what an average high school lifter can lift. Countless hours and imaginable effort to obtain, let's just say a 5x gain in strength doesn't compare at all to the difference between a level 1 warrior and a level 80 warrior. The level 80 is easily 1000x stronger in terms of what it can do.

Even nerdy stuff - like the rubiks cube. I had one in high school, learned the solution included and could solve it in under 120 seconds. The world's best solvers who train for hours and hours each week can consistently solve it in under 20 seconds. Years of work and dedication to get six times better than a loser high school kid.

In terms of effort, the fictional rewards of a video game far, far out weigh the rewards of real life. And even in my examples; the fastest rubiks solvers and the best power lifters - not only did they work, they also had a higher aptitude than most. Something they can't change or control.

We all joke that the hardcore WoW players are losers; but the more of a loser you are, the more appealing WoW becomes. The popular guy in high school - he's going to go to a party and mess around with a cheerleader....WoW seems lame. But to the below average looking kid with few friends - well, life isn't offering him much. He can work really, really hard for below average results in whatever he chooses - or he can go to WoW where he is on a level playing field with others and where he can see serious improvements, magnitudes better than real life offers.

I've read articles where kids with behavioral disorders, social anxiety, general nerdiness, etc were encouraged to use this as a means of driving more appropriate/better behaviors. Like if a shy kid talked to a classmate, he gave himself 10 points, etc. Then they worked with the therapist to track the whole thing - basically making life your RPG.

A friend of mine was accused by his father of general nerdiness, and threw him on the street every day to hang out with the local thugs. He's still a nerd at heart, but he can handle himself in a fight and bench 300 lbs now, though he still obsesses over the latest linux distros. Probably worked out better than any RPG therapy could, but he's quite a riven guy.

I've read articles where kids with behavioral disorders, social anxiety, general nerdiness, etc were encouraged to use this as a means of driving more appropriate/better behaviors. Like if a shy kid talked to a classmate, he gave himself 10 points, etc. Then they worked with the therapist to track the whole thing - basically making life your RPG.

Agree. They do that for people with autism-spectrum disorders too. There's entire classes of neurological and psychological disorders that regular computer interaction can treat. If playing video games improves a person's quality of life, there's no reason to degrade it. Everybody has their own coping strategies that are unique to them and if it works then that is what is important, not some moralistic concept of "better" behaviors like going outside or excercising. In medicine, you choose the treatment wit

My wife and I did this with my ADHD son for a while when he was about five. Positive points for doing good things, negative points for doing bad things, all according to a list. When he saved up enough points he had a list of things he could cash them in for, like eating out at a restaurant of his choice, seeing a movie, or getting some Lego. It did seem to help.

I've read articles where kids with behavioral disorders, social anxiety, general nerdiness, etc were encouraged to use this as a means of driving more appropriate/better behaviors. Like if a shy kid talked to a classmate, he gave himself 10 points, etc. Then they worked with the therapist to track the whole thing - basically making life your RPG.

Too much grinding, too many griefers and the loot drops have been nerfed. Nobody ever said live was fair? I'm sending a nastygram to the developers. *jolly's account gets permabanned*

But that's not really how RPGs work. You don't get experience points for doing stuff you don't like. You get experience points for playing the game, which should be fun, so you'd do it anyway. I've never been motivated in an RPG to do something simply for the sake of getting experience points. If I ever find myself doing something only to get experience points, that's a poorly designed game.

wii fit. One of the things I like about wii fit is that you can use calories burned to track your score. Actual weight loss makes a good long term goal, but, in a single day, being able to say "I earned a piece of chicken" actually adds something to the routine.

It's kind of like dumping experience points into an object to enchant it, or spending money for the arrows that you've lost. You lose points in the short term, but gain a certain ability that will help you earn even more.

We all play roles in life, we all gain "levels" and earn currency to barter for more stuff. We grind out content with to earn a reward. RPGs are designed to imitate life in a mathematical way that isn't so far-fetched that it destroys our suspension of disbelief. The current parallels between life and RPGs don't impress me. However, the one and only feature that I truly wish I could have from an RPG would be the ability to reload. Or in the case of an MMORPG, the ability to reroll/rez. When that happe

More importantly, when will I have an exclamation point over my head and be able to give people a reward "You earned a ration" for bringing me a gold statue worth a hell of a lot more then that ration:)

I just look forward to the day when I no longer keep having these strange dreams of prospecting, stealing, crusading, and combat. My friends kept asking me why I've engraved "Elbereth" all over my house. All I could usually manage is to shakingly point at the water fountain outside and say, "The ampersand... it came from there!"

I figure that this pine wand that I'm whittling should give me about a 60% chance of getting out of this padded cell, depending on what type it turns out to be.

The one good feature in Second Life: If you're having a bad day, you can literally walk around with a thundercloud over your head. Just like the "missile balloons" (google it), this would be an awesome thing to have and use ever so rarely.

What if this physical reality is not as absolute as it mostly appears? What if the perception-warping effects of psychedelic drugs show that fundamentally this reality is subjective and flexible? What if it is really an adaptive stage, a credible illusion, in which we play out the role called "life"?

If true, that would certainly explain why we are so easily addicted to and feel at home in RPGs as we would be born role players.

I do not need to knock on my neighbor's door. In fact, going inside, opening his cabinets, and taking whatever I want is expected.
I get experience points for beating up stray dogs.
I find treasure chests, unlocked and unopened, hidden away in all sorts of bushes and alleyways around my city. Some even contain armor!
I don't work out, I level up!
I only carry up to 255 pieces of any item.
If I receive something that appears to be worthless (like a Rusty Sword) I must carry it with me wherever I go, in case I find someone who can restore it to its former glory.
When I buy a shirt at the store, I attempt to sell them the one on my back in order to cut costs.

Good vs. Evil. Karma. Deviate from the path you have chosen, lose points. Stick to the path, accrue points and power.

Michael Moorcock, whose Eternal Champion books were the inspiration for Gygax's Law/Chaos/Evil/Good/Neutral "alignment" system that has in turn been at the core -- subtly or not -- of every RPG produced should be getting residuals. Instead, he's probably just getting a good laugh.

For the square RPG, don't forget flashbacks. The more emo the better.Also you're not allowed to carry a weapon that's smaller than a small cow, if it looks like you could feasibly lift it within the laws of Newtonian physics, then its too small.Remember to spike your hair.And finally, if you're male, remember to look androgenyous.

Not brushing your teeth can very well lead to additional expenses (if you don't think this way, you probably don't have kids), and building alliances surely is a very important part of how people accrue riches (it's not what you know, it's who you know; alternately, why does that hot babe like that ugly rich guy?)

I do think our society is coming ever-closer to monetizing everything, because that leads to economic efficiency.

However, I do not agree that money is ultimately the only driver, nor even that

Actually, that's the second site. The original was http://www.chorewars.com/ [chorewars.com]. The folks at ChoreWars created WorldOfChoreCraft so that people who had it set up at home could use it at work (and vice versa).

After donating 18 liters of blood, achieving the Ist Degree Honorable Blood Donor title, a document and a badge stating that, and a permanent free public communication ticket, I really felt like I just finished a major questline.

nope, just good regen. Fucking casual noob, with regenerating health, that's what I am.(the regulations say 450ml per donation, 8 weeks apart at least. That's 40 donations, with 6 per year limit and a lot of extra quarantine conditions (dentist - another month. Injury involving stitches - half a year...). That's at least six and a half years of donating, realistically more like eight.)

When I saw RPG in the headline, at first I thought it meant "rocket powered grenade." It had never occurred to me that life could be "imagined as one big rocket powered grenade." After clicking on the link, I soon discovered that RPG could also stand for "role playing games." So then I realized that he meant that life could be "imagined as one big role playing game," which made more sense.

As someone who is not into playing computer games, that other meaning for RPG did not immediately occur to me.

So I realize the article is sort of whatever (having not read it myself, I can only assume that's the case) but a friend of mine has been harping about a reputation based economy where the dollar is less meaningful and you earn favors and acquire goods more on how well known you are in a particular area or field. A Nobel winner would be given kingly treatment wherever he or she goes while a politician would remain hated or loved depending on where they are, as they do now.

This is some twenty-something guy suddenly noticing things that smacked me around the head when I was that twenty-something guy when I picked up Colin Fletcher "The Man who Walked through Time" and got rid of most of my camping gear 'cos going camping with a groundsheet and a sleeping bag and NO TENT was more REAL. Back in the Reagan years.

That said, I think an automated pat-on-the-back system would do wonders for motivation in education... but more from the perspective of unlocking the tech tree / curriculum, and showing what new abilities a student might have after mastering second-order differential equations or the Level IV history of Mesopotamia analytical text.

But it may just as well breed more precious coddled snowflakes that can't cope with a

You whippersnappers! An RPG is a Role Playing Game, of course it's a lot like life. Achievements? Alts? These are things found in MMORPGs which have nothing to do with Role Playing except a D&D style genre. They're just graphical MUDs.