The United States is like the Hotel California, you can check in but you can't check out. It has always amazed me that the Russian states could vote to leave the union but not so here.
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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

Guy, so it seems that weapons to horrific to use in war are OK to use domestically.

That's your government that says that, not me.

My now retired Fed friend carried a clip that started with a copper jacket armor piercing round, the rest of the clip was hollow points. They came in boxes marked "for law enforcement use only." Well one day going home from work a 18 wheeler ran over the trunk of his car and some spilled out. When the state highway patrol officers were investigating and helping him pick up the ammo they remarked that the ammo would have been illegal for them to use, never mind a civilian to posses.

<ed>His carry permit, good everywhere in the USA, trusts, territories and possessions, authorized up to and including nukes.

The Geneva convention is too duplicious! It changed the regulations oh high powered rounds like the 7.62mm as used by the majority of NATO forces as it does too much damage to the human body, so we're now using 5.56mm.

I'm just wondering why our GPMG's are still in use with 7.62mm. It's ok for a force weapon to continue but not personal weapons?

The Geneva convention is too duplicious! It changed the regulations oh high powered rounds like the 7.62mm as used by the majority of NATO forces as it does too much damage to the human body, so we're now using 5.56mm.

I'm just wondering why our GPMG's are still in use with 7.62mm. It's ok for a force weapon to continue but not personal weapons?

It was too long and heavy. In 82, some people used 66mm to take out the enemy because the SLR couldn't be used in the close confines found on the hills.

Modified so there was no automatic mode.

Designed to be right hand operated only.

You had to release left hand to cock the weapon, a task on most good weapons done with the same hand as you use for the trigger.

Show me any snippers or special forces that choose it as weapon of choice.

Quite correct, sorry WK, should have said "for it's range". When used as an individual weapon its effective range was 300 metres when used in team mode, its effective range doubled to 600 metres. Street to street fighting, it was too effective Hence the need for a smaller weapon.

Quite correct, sorry WK, should have said "for it's range". When used as an individual weapon its effective range was 300 metres when used in team mode, its effective range doubled to 600 metres. Street to street fighting, it was too effective Hence the need for a smaller weapon.

As for its weight, I never had an issue with it.

But the previous personal weapon used by the UK Forces, the Lee Enfield 303, could be used by most experienced users at ranges over 300m quite easily.

I had several 10in groups at 600m with the 303, and struggled to get that at 300m with the SLR.

Didn't worry me much, early in my service, when in infantry mode I was bren user. And later the SLR was not my personal weapon.

Reading back on your other post, I've realised why I never had an issue with the SLR & throughly enjoyed using it - I'm left handed.

Going back to the first para of your original post and the change from 7.62 to 5.56. I'm not sure I like that move. Tests in the early 60's on the Armalite, by Stirlings of SMG fame, showed that to get a get a good knock down you had to increase the muzzle velocity. This didn't always work as the rounds tended not to slow down if they didn't hit bone and cause only minor injuries.

The increase in charge to get the higher velocity also had the effect of unbalancing the round so that it tumbled, reducing the range consuderably, but if it did hit the enemy it caused lots of damage. i.e. sever an arm or leg.

I also want my enemy badly wounded or dead, having to look after slightly injured survivors and provide guards is a waste of manpower.

Going back to the time of the NATO Small Arms trials (1978) before standardising on the 5.56 round. The trial SA80s for the UK was chambered at 4.82 mm, and could deliver 80KJ of energy in to a soldier wearing a flack jacket at 300 metres. A kill shot.

Pity the SA80, then, was operationally crap ...
____________It's good to be back amongst friends and colleagues