Prince Harry of England has been forced to apologize for calling an army comrade a “Paki.” His reference to “our little Paki friend, Ahmed” — captured in a video recorded three years ago, when Harry was attending Sandhurst military academy — was almost universally denounced.

David Cameron of the Conservative Party called the term “a completely unacceptable thing to say,” while Nick Clegg of the Liberal Democrats said the prince’s remark had “obviously caused considerable offense.” The Ministry of Defense huffed: “This sort of language is not acceptable in a modern army.” (Bombing foreigners, OK; insulting foreigners, not OK.)

Taking the prize in the indignation derby was British Muslim activist Mohammed Shafiq of the Ramadhan Foundation. “I am deeply shocked and saddened at Prince Harry’s racism which upsets and offends many British Asians,” Shafiq said in a statement. “The use of this sort of racism has no justification and I am saddened by those that are advocating using this term is not racist. … It’s time for real remorse.”

Among Harry’s few defenders was Ingrid Seward of the royal-watching magazine Majesty, who told the BBC that the prince and his academy friends “were having fun and … calling each other nicknames.” She pointed out that Harry’s reddish-blond hair had earned him the nickname “Ginge or Ginger.” (In the video, the prince-lieutenant pretends to give orders to his army comrades and then asks if there are any questions, to which one of them responds: “Are your pubes ginger, too?”) Alas for Harry, “gingers” don’t have quite the kind of ethnic clout in Britain as Pakistanis these days, and the revelation of his nickname prompted no demands that anyone apologize.

The incident illustrated, among much else, how ethnic epithets and other manifestations of prejudice (real or alleged) are rooted in cultural contexts. Until Harry apologized for the remark — first reported by the tabloid News of the World, I had no idea that the word “Paki” was regarded in England as hateful.

The term is almost unknown in America, not necessarily because Pakistani immigrants face less prejudice here, but simply because they are not so numerous as to merit their own specific slur. Mark it down to geographic ignorance of the subcontinent, perhaps, but most Americans don’t know the difference between an Indian, a Pakistani and a Bangladeshi.

Trans-Atlantic differences in ethnic designation were apparent in Shafiq’s reference to “British Asians.” In Old Blighty, “Asian” is used as a generic term for those from the Indian subcontinent — a demographic reminder of the erstwhile empire — whereas in America, the word “Asian” calls to mind primarily the Chinese or Japanese, with Vietnamese or Filipinos as secondary associations. And unlike the Pakistanis, some of these groups have been sufficiently distinguished in the American mind to merit their own national epithets.

When I declared on my blog that I was unaware “Paki” had attained slur status in England — “How does the omission of two syllables change this from a description of someone’s nationality to a racist epithet?” — a commenter retorted: “There’s no way an American would use the word ‘Jap’ to describe a Japanese, or ‘Chink’ for Chinese.” Good point. One observes that, as with the condensation of “Pakistani” into “Paki,” both “Jap” and “Chink” have the effect of abbreviation, and perhaps there is a derogatory intent implied in depriving these groups of an extra syllable or two.

Derogatory intent is central to the controversy over Prince Harry’s reference to his “little Paki friend, Ahmed.” The video that sparked the uproar was full of juvenile joking by the prince, who was 21 at the time. At one point, pretending to phone his grandmother, Queen Elizabeth, Harry says, “Got to go. God save you” — an irreverent reference to the British national anthem. During a field exercise, he points his video camera at a comrade (“Dan, the man”) wearing a camouflage hood and says, “F**k me, you look like a raghead.”

141 Comments, 141 Threads

1.
Tom

For goodness sake, he’s in the army. What next? Banning of sergeants using four-letter words?

This is all bullshit. Here in Australia we are all Aussies but also Pakis, Pommies, Yankees and so on. The UK Pakistanis need to grow a sense of proportion and the British establishment needs to grow some bloody balls.

This is not about being a Paki. Its about being a Muslim. Muslims are sacrosanct. The MSM is absolutely certain that if Dhimmitude and the position is assumed, then terrorism will disappear. All this holy wrath is indeed holy. Its fear that Muslim outrage will erupt again, in some form.

Prince Harry was apparently indulging in macho humor. We should definitely cut him some slack. There is a somewhat nebulous line between humor and bigotry. What in hell is wrong with the truncated version “Paki” instead of the more verbose Pakistani? Indeed, some people need to drop a chill pill. This hypersensitivity is silly. I occasionally refer to people living in Great Britain as “the Brits.” Should I therefore get on my knees and beg for forgiveness?

have you ever seen people of italian origins making such a fuss when are called “dago”?

or the americans when they are called yankees? or the canadians when are called canuks? I could go on for hours. It is evident that the muslims (and their numerous apologists) wants to be treated as superior individuals with priviledges unthinkable to others. Also when pakistani are a “race”? so the term “racist” has been misused once again.

Think about this, people, and explain it to your children and your closed ones. Don’t worry about “terrorism”, it’s a word that is overabused and it is used to cover up the real danger here, islamic suprematism.

I can’t imagine too many people are genuinely offended by Harrys comments.

Oh there are going to be plenty of people pretending to be offended by them so they can get themselves some political leverage but thats just a dumb game being played by the media, politicians and dickheads like Mohammed Shafiq who don’t actually speak for or care about anyone other than themselves.

Fake outrage is getting very tiresome. There may be plenty of reasons not to like the British royal family but nonsense like this isn’t one of them.

I think this whole “controversy” is ridiculous. People sometimes talk differently among their friends and, if they’re comfortable enough, coworkers. I’m black, the only black in my office; we also have one guy who’s Jewish; the other six are white. But, every now and then one of us will jokingly make some kind of racial remark that, if heard by someone who didn’t know us, would swear we’re racist or bigots, and sexist.

“Prince Harry was apparently indulging in macho humor. We should definitely cut him some slack. There is a somewhat nebulous line between humor and bigotry. What in hell is wrong with the truncated version “Paki” instead of the more verbose Pakistani? Indeed, some people need to drop a chill pill. This hypersensitivity is silly. I occasionally refer to people living in Great Britain as “the Brits.” Should I therefore get on my knees and beg for forgiveness?”

Whilst I would agree that this is not the most important story in the news, it is true that in the UK ‘paki’ is a racial insult, just as the abbreviations Jap or Chink are in the US, some Americans have told me that even ‘oriental’ is considered offensive over there while here it is relatively benign.

Indeed, any word on its own is just a word, ‘nigger’ is only considered offensive because of the way it has been used in the past to insult and degrade, without that context it is just six letters like any other six letters, same for Paki.

In any case Harry has clearly taken lessons in tact from his paternal grandfather.

“Paki” was a term of abuse popularised in the nineteen seventies by fascist groups such as the National Front in phrases such as “Paki Go Home”. It is generally used interchangeably regarding anyone from India, Pakistani or Bangladesh. It is intended in a similar form as “nigger”.

And while indeed some groups reclaim terms of sbuse, if you were to walk through Brick Lane in London shouting “Paki” at people you walked past… well, you might not get to the end of the street.

He probably is a bigot…he likely has no time for people or savages that are trying to blow his head off or otherwise maim him. Tom has it spot on in the first post. This is the army and it is in the field taking fire from time to time. Get over it. There are a lot worse terms being used than Paki or raghead except the reporter is from another culture and didn’t even understand what was being said.

PC fosters the sensitive and the weak….those that think they have a right not to have their feelings hurt. They don’t belong on a battlefield or in an army but they certainly infest the media and the left.

For goodness sake get a life and get to grips with the real problems of this country and indeed the world. This was three years ago and obviously said in good humour.The oppositions and many do gooders of this country need to put this into perspective

Let’s see: after 9/11, Madrid, London, Bali, et al, I know longer give a #### what muslims think or care about. Must we really respect the wishes and demands of muslims up until the time they decide to cut off the heads of our children? I’ve decided to not engage in that insanity.

The British Army has a fine tradition of insulting nicknames for particular ethnic/cultural/racial groups, “Chalkies” (as in “Chalkie white) for Africans, “Taffy’s/Taff’s” for Wesh, “Jocks” = Scottish, “Skowsers” = Liverpool . . . etc. The back and forth insults, foul language and odd behaviours (as in risking life and limb for others) is part of the culture within militaries (and the British military in particular). This is all part of a constant bonding process that’s only equivalents in the civilian world are those between emergency services people (firemen and some law enforcement).

The bonding that occurs between members of the military seems incomprehensible to most civilians (by the tone of these hysterical commentaries). Since they can’t comprehend the context of these “pet names” they should take the advice of an old coffee add from WW2 (subtly modified by some wag at the beginning of this war we’re up to our ears in) “How about a nice cup of STFU?

12. The National Front used to say something like bl##dy Paki or something worse, however as far as I am concernd that its Paki as in short for Pakistan, while Brit is short for British. In the 70′s I remember saying that we were going to the Pakishop, (the local corner shop) if I had said I am going to the bl##dy Pakishop then of course I would have meant to be offensive, but it was a description, of course as a kid I did not know of the difference between Hindus and Muslims. Like anything in Britain its got to a stupid level of PC, Paki is short for someone of Pakistani origin, so what and in the context that Harry used it it was as part of a group humour thing where he was referred to as Ginge…, the fuss about this is pathethic.

Can you imagine me using the word Yanks, then saying bl##dy yanks and then afterwards the word Yank is offensive…

#12, that is exactly the point, you are afraid to say anything that may “offend” the most important, and worthwhile, educated, reasonable and non-violent “religion”, aka cult on Earth. Why are you afraid? because muslims not only threaten and promise violence, they engage in it quite freely, without danger of retribution. Ever heard of the abomination called sharia? You may pay tribute to I-Slam, prostrate yourself, whimper and beg for mercy from “allah, but you will still be killed at the moment muslims wish. Unless you DEFEND YOURSELF, CHILDREN AND CULTURE.

“My speech is entitled ‘Ginger Kids: Children With Red Hair, Light Skin and Freckles.’ We’ve all seen them – on the playground, at the store, walking on the streets. They creep us out and make us feel sick to our stomachs. I’m talking of course about – ginger kids. . . . Ginger kids are born with a disease which causes very light skin, red hair and freckles. . . . This disease is called gingervitus, and it occurs because ginger kids have no souls.”–Cartman from “Ginger Kids” episode of Southpark, aired Nov. 9, 2005

In answer to Susan’s question, I have seen an uproar over “dago” here in St. Paul. However, the dagos themselves thought it absurd to have “Hot Dago Sandwiches” on a menu be deemed racially insensitive. They told the supersensitive Thought Police to push it up their poopchutes, I’m sure to the great distress of the “homo” “community”. It is distressing to see you “Brits” with your “undies” in a bundle over a few “towelhead” terrorists using your stupid “pc” “BS” against you in such a sadly effective manner. Pity the krauts weren’t aware of this weakness, or you’d all be wearing lederhosen and singing the praises of sausage and beer. Is there a “doc” in the house?

The term Paki is equivalent in the UK to the term nigger. It is not simply a shortening of Pakistani, and any ‘Brit’ who says it is, is being deliberately disingenuous. It is a term of racist abuse in the way that Brit, Pom, Kiwi, Aussie, or Scouser, Taffy, Paddy, Jock etc are not.
As for 18:don’s suggestion that this is simply Army banter – well as an ex-British Army officer I can say that the term Paki is not, and has never been, acceptable use. That isn’t to say it isn’t used, but it is used with its racist connotations. I would not have permitted its use in my squadron.
But the point is not whether or not the term is racist – that is beyond doubt – the question is whether this not-terribly intelligent prince should have used it at all. Clearly the answer is no.
However, he has apologised for it, and we should all move on, he the wiser for this, the rest of us, happy that he has learned his lesson.

“Let’s see: after 9/11, Madrid, London, Bali, et al, I know longer give a #### what muslims think or care about. Must we really respect the wishes and demands of muslims up until the time they decide to cut off the heads of our children? I’ve decided to not engage in that insanity.”

Maybe you didn’t notice but the guy he was referring to was fighting on our side in the British army.

My mother, as it happens, is a Japanese-born American citizen, and I personally am proud to call myself a “Jap” (though admittedly I, like Obama, am half-white).
A racial slur is only a slur if you permit it to be one, and as anyone who has bothered to watch the tape can clearly see, Prince Harry very obviously had no malicious or racially slanderous intent when he used the term “Paki” to describe his comrade in arms, who I doubt very much was in any way offended.

commenter retorted: “There’s no way an American would use the word ‘Jap’ to describe a Japanese, or ‘Chink’ for Chinese.” Good point. One observes that, as with the condensation of “Pakistani” into “Paki,” both “Jap” and “Chink” have the effect of abbreviation, and perhaps there is a derogatory intent implied in depriving these groups of an extra syllable or two.

No way an American would use words like Jap, Flip, Chicommie, NORK, frog, russkie, Mex, beaner, canuck, nip, limey, raghead? Please, what planet are you on…

Rich Johnston – And while indeed some groups reclaim terms of sbuse, if you were to walk through Brick Lane in London shouting “Paki” at people you walked past… well, you might not get to the end of the street.

Time and time again, we are told that the demand to not use a “hurtful word” is reinforced and made morally correct by the possibility the “aggrieved, offended” might respond with violence. So we all best watch what we say, or we might be injured or killed by the angry insulted.
That sort of reminds me of the homosexuals who thought it was safe to Mormon-bash in their street theater of outrage, but go nowhere near anti-Prop 8 black and hispanic churches and neighborhoods.
If violence works, then we should be ready to accept both sides employing the threat of it. I walk down Brick Lane in London Metro and say Paki all I want and the Pakis keep their knives put away because they know 2 years before that they tried stabbing a couple of skinheads to death for saying it and the skinheads pulled out shotguns and wasted 8 followers of Allah. After that, all violence, or threats of violence seemed to abate about “Paki”.
Same in the USA..if black women started killing Niggahs for calling all black ladies bitches, ‘hos, and skank sluts…black male rap and street lingo would rapidly get modified.
And if in Canada, some person that ran afoul of the Human Rights Councils on PC responded by killing a few Canadian “activist lawyers” – PC prosecutions would become a lot rarer.

Hate to think it, but your free speech rights may be substantially improved if they are backed with a threat of violence, just as speech is intimidated by the other side attacking you physically, through the legal system, threatening your job. And people using PC to assault those they disagree with, like the homosexuals…appear greatly deterred by the possibility of violent backlash against them.

Food for thought.
Like – How much would men’s rights in PC Family Court be improved with a few salutory feminist, judge or lawyer shootings? I think it would only take a half dozen men screwed out of their kids, home, most of what they saved, and half their income for the next 15 years to “take one for the team…” to have a big effect on court fairness.

Free speech is influenced by violence. PC is influenced by the lack of violence it meets in efforts to attack offenders and punish them through courts, employers, even threats or actual physical violence.

I’m glad I’m an American and don’t need to worry about this nonsense. Not the insult or perceived insult, but the horror that the Prince said it. Personally, I’d cut the guy some slack because he is living his life under a microscope, and serving his country in the military. I’ll leave the criticism to others, not being remotely close to perfect myself.

Face it, if he wasn’t, he’d be some kind of undefined amorphous sludge…some higher power made him as he is…who’s anybody to knock it? I’d say be careful of Pride, that’ll trip ya up..but race, the color of yer skin, is given in the line of defenses of yerself…else it all be in darkness….

Why is it everyone gets “offended” except “white” people? For 60+ years Americans have been referred to as “Yanks”, especially by British folks. I am of Italian/German decent and have been called a “kraut” and “wop”. Now Muslims say infidels are lower than pigs and dogs. Big deal! I’m proud of my heritage and if you think if I am lower than a dog or pig, that’s your opinion! How could this ever hurt me?

And what do you expect of men in the armed forces? They are trained to defend and kill. The use of a few derogatory terms comes with the terrority. Harry hasn’t raped anyone, married a nine year old or made a living robbing others.

Get real! A wop is a wop, a raghead is a raghead and surely a Paki is a Pakistanian!

23: Of course the PC and Race relations fascists have defined it as such, having been a teenager in the 70′s living near to small numbers of Pakistanis, we often used either Paki or Pakistanis to identify them in our talk. To me its the same as Japs/Japanese and if you think that is offensive to the Japanese as a race or nation to use the word Japs then there you go. I remember around 1976 much effort being put into stopping people from using Paki by saying it was offensive and that skin headed racists were using it, the campaign by the NF of “Paki go home” being the defining factor, so how old are you, did you live through that period, did you actually live through the demonising of that word? Funny enough I cannot remember the last time I actually used the word Paki, its either Muslims, or Islamists for the frothing at the mouth nutters.

I was once a financial aid kid at an elite private school so I’m very familiar with the personality traits of unearned privilege. Its very likely that “Prince” Harry does have a smug “frat-boy” attitude that’s pretty common for upper class children in which its amusing to make fun of other people for “shortcomings” such as not being rich or fashionable, and that carries over into thinking its funny to call someone a paki, make a gay joke, use the word “raghead” whatever, when in fact it just makes you look like a prick or bully or “mean girl”. It’s not the trait of a leader to be sure.

OTOH I think labels like racist and bigot get thrown around way too easily. Let’s just say it was a moment of insensitivity and perhaps revealed an ugly side of his personality. I think if photographers followed any of us around 24/7 they’d catch a bad side of us once in a while too, so no reason to make more than it is. (Unless its your job to go on TV and be outraged at everything!)

“(Primarily UK and Canada, sometimes US, NZ and India) a South Asian. Within the UK, the term originates in Northern England, where a large number of South-Asians arrived in the 1950s and 1960s. It is usually considered offensive when used by a non-South Asian in the UK.”

I think it is the duty of everyone to insult muslims and islam at every opportunity not just because it is so easy and deserved but also because they need to develop the maturity and self-control required to live in free democracies.

I watched the video of young Harry and thought it was a little boring like most home videos. I expected much more considering the screaming ‘RACIST HARRY” headline. The pretend phone call to the Queen was amusing though, with the ‘God save you’ line. Just my two cents, but I think most racist would hide it, rather than saying it out loud in front of his target and on video…so my best guess is it was just something the guys all said at one time or another.

A little more context. In the ’60s and ’70s (and maybe to this day) British skinheads and hooligans, the same ones who are not permitted to attend some European soccer matches, used to gang up on and beat randomly selected Asians. This sport was widely known as “paki-bashing.” Thus, it may be that the more sensitive Brits see “Paki” in this context rather than simply a truncation of “Pakistani.”

For some reason, no one gets upset over Americans being called “Yank” by the rest of the world. To us Southerners, it is the essence of every insult congealed into one. It’s like a Christian having his head sawed off by a Muslim, or a Muslim seeing a funny picture of prophet Mohammed.

Sorry–just want to be clear that I’m not saying military people are stupid and offensive. I meant that when people, esp. younger people, get together to goof off in certain kinds of groups, they’re mouthier than they would be otherwise.

We all know – it’s complicated. The “N-word” is thrown around all the time in the States, sometimes as an insult, sometimes as a jocular epithet, sometimes as an expression of comradeship – even brotherhood. It all depends on who says it to whom, their relationship to one another, and the immediate context.

Despite what you see in the media, a white person could conceivably use the “N-word” for a black person – if their relationship and the social context allowed for that kind of familiarity. But I think that only happens at the interpersonal level – it’s something organic that’s worked out between two or more people. It’s private.

In the public sphere, obviously there are rules of good manners and political correctness – determining what’s generally acceptable, especially among strangers from different groups.

I think the problems arise when we try to apply either set of rules to the opposite situation. Harry’s use of “Paki” may have been interpersonal and familiar, but it ended up in a public context – where it would obviously be unacceptable. Similarly, the press and some Asians are applying the public rules to the interpersonal situation – where they may or may not be acceptable to the people involved. The solution is, as someone previously said, to ask Ahmed whether he’s offended – whether, in fact, Harry “gets to” call him a Paki.

I hope people realize that the words jap / nip aren’t supposed to be offensive. They were coined by the military. They tend to abbreviate everything they can (e.g., ASAP, FUBAR, SITREP, etc). By filtering out the noise, you can fit more information in the pipeline. And of course relevant information saves soldiers’ lives.

I bet the “Paki” involved wasn’t offended even though using that term in the UK to a non-friend is offensive from what I have seen.

Some of it is also generational: my youngest daughter banters with her friends (black, hispanic, asian etc) using terms that would make anyone my age recoil. They do the same with her. They have an ease with each other that has transcended the hyper sensitivity of past decades.

I think Carolb hit it on the head: The “party crashers” make it an issue when the friends didn’t care.

Another perfect example of busybodies making an issue when there isn’t one in the LA Times yesterday: a marching band slated to participate in the inagural using the name Wynadotte Chiefs after a local indian tribe.

This prompted a 13,000 word complaint by some retired geezer-busybody and his sociologist wife who accused them of racism. Everyone became hypersentitive and backed off using the name not wanting to give offense or be accused of racism–until the actual Chief of the Indian tribe involved weighed in: his view? In less than 50 words, using the name was great, and the busybody should mind his own business. The band will now march with the original name.

I just watched the video. It’s obviously not meant maliciously. I think the whole thing makes him very endearing. He comes off as one of the guys and that’s kind of hard to believe of someone from the royal family.

We are coming to a point where apologies for this kind of thing are almost more offensive than the thing itself. Apologies are demanded for just about everything and what this faux outrage does is keep anyone from talking about the salient issues.

“Paki” isn’t like “Brit” or “Aussie”, it is an insult, especially in the UK. Here “raghead” would get a lot more attention.

But anyway, he said something stupid, he apologized. Does the media really need its pound of flesh or can it just move on? I noticed that Gordon Brown even was asked to comment on the “Paki” controversy, and I’m sure he has a few other things to worry about right now.

Calling anyone from South Carolina, or especially Texas, a Yank, is very insulting; however, I’m not insulted when it happens. I grew up in an ‘honour’ culture in which if somebody insulted you, you were supposed to call them out and try to kill them. Andrew Jackson used to do this a lot. This is too much work and trouble for me, so I gave up being insulted.

This is no different from the way that Europeans call all Americans Yanks. To many southerners, being called a Yank is about as offensive as it is to Pakistanis in Britain to be called a Paki. Yet somehow, we retain our composure…

The name Pakistan didn’t even exist until before the war and it’s the abbreviation of the five provinces that had a Muslim majority under The Raj. At worse calling someone a Paki simply means “the pure.”

John B. gets it right, as do jonesy55 (@ 24) and aramkr (@ 40). We’re supposed to button our lip while Muslims chop our heads off? Is that it? The next Muslim who calls me an infidel gets dropped in his tracks, along with any PC apologist who thinks Muslims deserve any special considerations.

Recently I received a warning about the use of this politically incorrect term, so please note, we all need to be more sensitive in our choice of words.

I have been informed the Islamic terrorists, who hate our guts and want to kill us, do not like to be called “Towel Heads”, since the item they wear on their heads is not actually a towel, but in fact, a small folded sheet.

Therefore, from this point forward, please refer to them as “Little Sheet Heads.” Thank you for your support and compliance on this delicate matter.

Just remember in the world of social one-upmanship and moral point-scoring, just about any cultural nickname is considered, by the holier-than-thou crowd, to be evidence sufficient to convict the user of boorish behavior and/or malicious intent and/or of course, racism.

I myself have been so convicted of such evil behavior when conversing with some English citizens and referring to the English in general as ‘brits’.

Would that there were a two-cylinder epithet that could be so successfully applied to those moral paragons themselves.

Beyond the apparent goal of Islamic terrorists wanting to be perceived of, somehow, as a victim group, it has been perfectly obvious for a long time that some national groups just LIVE to be offended. It seems like people groups cycle in and out of this category from time to time. Right now, the Muslims and the Pakistanis and the terrorists (and any hyphenated combination thereof) are the high profile groups.

It just boils down to playground theatrics with very, very high stakes, “You call me names and I’ll kill you.”

We completely “lost the language” on this one after 9-11 when our government decided it wasn’t nice to refer to Islamic terrorists as Islamic terrorists.

Harry should have been smart enough to not do this. But the over-reaction to what he did says as much about the hysterical reactors as it does about him.

I don’t know how the word “Paki” relates to the word n***er, but I do know that if Harry had said, “my little n***er friend,” it would not have been received well at all. It really is about common courtesy. If one of my white friends said something like that to me, I would let him know, “not a good idea.” However, over poker, we do make racial jokes, we just understand that there is a line you don’t cross because there is too much history behind certain phrases. It is my responsibility to let my buddies know what some of those boundaries are if they do not know so they will not have to go through what Harry is going through. I hate the term PC, but I do believe in treating people with respect and we need to ask ourselves, am I unintentionally hurting someone’s feeling if I say this?

By the way, I think Harry is uninformed, not a bigot. I applaud the fact that the kid was willing to volunteer and put himself in harms way to defend hsi country. He should be applauded for his patriotism and forgiven for being young and uniformed.

“The term is almost unknown in America, not necessarily because Pakistani immigrants face less prejudice here,”

Err, helloooo! Muslims in general in the US earn more on average than native born Americans. I told this to a Brit once and first he assumed I meant poverty stricken indian reservation dwelling “native Americans”, but when I told him, no, I mean more than American born American citizens, his jaw dropped.

I know you have to throw this kind of rote anti Americanism in as a matter of course, but this one just doesn’t wash. Why do you think there are so few American born Muslim terrorists? Did you ever wonder why you can turn up dozens in most European countries, and thousands of supporters in any major city, and so few in the US, that there was no reason?

Why don’t you Brits just do as your Archbishop suggests and just accept Islam as your future? Clearly you intend to go down without a fight. How does a country go from ruling an empire that spans the globe to an island overrun by its former colonial subjects? Londonistan, Northern Algeria (formerly known as ‘France’), El Andaluse (fka as ‘Spain’) and whatever the Muslims are going to re-name the Netherlands. The bottom line: Muslims will die for Islam; Non-believing, secular, politically correct, multiculturalists stand for nothing.

A friend of mine went to college and became an accountant. Worked in a top firm for a year or so, then left to become fireman. He said the first day of training, he leaned over and someone whistled, and he knew he was home. He just couldn’t take the stuffy, PC-loaded work atmosphere of a white collar office.

NO one on this planet has a right to not be offended, and people need to get over themselves. And what is with people who the comment wasn’t directed at being insulted by it, even if the person recieving it wasn’t? can I claim rape if some other woman is attacked? I think not!

JB: Why are you disparaging the Brits?. They are just 10 years ahead of us in accomodating a growing and vocal group.

We ban the name “crusader” but allow muslim teams to be named as they wish; meatpacking plants are having to allow muslim workers to pray 5 times a day because we chased out the mexican workers; i understand that airlines are fined in they place muslims in secondary searches too often; harvard, the bastion of “women are equal” has “women only” hours at a gym intended to appease muslims who find it objectionable otherwise.

This is exactly what is wrong with this world. To many whiners….get over it. People at work make fun of me because I was raised in California and do not have a southern accent. They call my Buffy because they think I am a valley girl. I laugh right along with it. People need to grow a spine and get a life.

In 2002 George W. Bush used the term and was quickly forgiven by Musharaff because (a) the word is not known in the USA (b) he did not mean to cause offense.

I haven’t heard the Prince’s tapes but it sounds as if (b) applies. They were joshing around. The guy who was called the name did not report it as it happened three years ago) so he probably was not offended. The broo-ha-ha has been manufactured by those that hate cartoons and beer.

Obviously the prince’s usage seems offensive, but then again it might not be in the context of the relationship between him and the Pakistani British soldier in question. The tape was not made for public consumption and is being viewed by an audience it wasn’t intended for. So it is, by definition, out of context.

I have to say that the people suggesting that there is no difference between saying “Paki” and saying “Brit” or “Yank” either have NO idea what they’re talking about or they’re arguing in extreme bad faith.

It’s not political correctness to disapprove of treating others in a dehumanizing way. It’s just good manners.

77: You start off well as it is out of context, but I have to wonder if you were old enough to see the usage of that word get demonised, I did, for some of us the taking of an insult in terms of that word is just madness, some like yourself think otherwise. If your asking whether I would go up to a Pakistani and say Paki my answer is no, because it might offend him even if I think it is rather silly, but I think it is even more silly to offend someone with a name that can be taken as an insult, that is why I would refer to them now as Pakistani, but like so much of the PC rubbish it grates a greate deal with my Yorkshire common sense.

jhaumesser:
PAKi- is an acronym for Punjab, Afghanistan and Kashmir. The -stan has a Farsi root for homeland or country.
The pejorative connotation to PAKi is acquired.

That is the after-the-fact, cleaned up version of how Pakistan came to be named…which is crap on it’s face because they were never interested in Afghanistan, wanted to treat Pashtun lands north of Punjab with benign neglect…and the acronym does not mention the huge population of the Sindh, the Baluchis, or the Indian emigres.

The truth is that Pakistan was created by people that wanted a Pure Nation of Muslims. “Pak” (or pure) is Urdu, the dominant dialect now and the dialect of the Punjabi leaders in charge at the time of Partition. Like Farsi, it also has “‘stan” as the word for nation.

The name Pakistan (IPA: [paːkɪst̪aːn]) means Land of (the) Pure in Urdu and Persian (Farsi). It was coined in 1934 as Pakstan by Choudhary Rahmat Ali, who published it in his pamphlet Now or Never.

Of course, Jinnah and other Muslims wanted a Pure Muslim land, but they also wanted to set up a nation where religion was not allowed to dominate the state and thwart modernity and democracy. They lost that bet.

Of course, from the beginning “Pak” itself is a perjorative directed against Unbelievers, hence the later rush to clean it’s origins up. Explain it is “really” just a partial abbreviation of some of Pakistan’s ethnicities….because what was REALLY to be inferred is Pakistan was created with the idea only Muslims are PURE..others are not.

“Pak” in Urdu and Farsi usage, is meant as the opposite of impure, unclean.

Yes, you need to look at the context-he’s in a rough environment, and the rough language does not mean he is a racist. As a “sensitive liberal” who voted for Obama, loves Jimmy Carter, and supports hate crime legislation for violent hate crimes, I fully agree that the prince should be given a break here. The kid gave up an easy life, if only for a while, to go and help out his fellow countrymen.
If some of my fellow liberals don’t get it, check out “Operation Kill” from HBO. It does a great job of putting that kind of talk in a proper context. War is harsh, and harsh language amongst buddies should not be a major news story.

Before critizing Harry, or commenting on this issue in general, it would be good for everybody to be familiar with R. Lee Ermey’s drill sergeant speech from Full Metal Jacket, or any episode of Generation Kill.

I agree with you, Harry does seem like a nice kid, but please remember that just because Tiger was not offended does not mean that other black people who heard the comment was not offended. If what is said is said between two friends with out the media present, so be it. It sounds like Harry was unfortunate enough to have been caught on camera joking with friends. We should take that with a grain of salt. The Tiger situation is different in that what was said, was said to a reporter to be broadcast and written down for all to consume.

‘Yankee,’ a corruption of the Dutch name ‘Janke’ (cognate with the English name ‘Johnny’) became widely used among the English as a term of derision for New England colonials. The words to [i]Yankee Doodle[/i] remain as evidence of that.

‘Yankee,’ a corruption of the Dutch name ‘Janke’ (cognate with the English name ‘Johnny’), became widely used among the English as a term of derision for New England colonials after England’s conquest of the Niewe Amsterdam colony. The words to Yankee Doodle remain as evidence of English mockery of Americans.

That wasn’t the fearless leader who used the term “Paki” in2002. I believe it wsas dear sandy berger.

Looks like, the boy was just fooling around with this friends. I’ve called white people and native americans funny names myself. (Back when i was young and the wheel had just been invented)

But in his case..it may be somewhat offensive because it came from the mouth of TRULY superior clan (Britain’s royalty..how much more status can you get) with stunning claims to breeding and snootiness, unlike, say, the random german, irish, italians, mutts and other such lower classes of whites found in America .

glc:
Prince Harry is a spoiled brat. Inconsequential. Irrelevant. Unimportant. A mere footnote in the march of history.

The Prince has served his country for 4 years in the military. He has been in serious combat as a forward air controller in Afghanistan. He has killed enemy, and has risked being killed.

As the “spare” to the heir, he is of consequence – and as much as people of certain ideology protest that the Japanese Emperor or Monarch of Spain or Britain is irrelevant – it just isn’t so. People take note of them, and are influenced by them.

Now we come to the sorryass matter of GLC.

What has that critter ever done to serve his people? Does GLC count his own petulant spoiled brat outbursts? What is GLC’s legacy?

Good lord, has it really gotten this pathetic?
I recently got out of the Marine Corps and I will tell you there is absolutely nothing racist about what Prine Harry said. People in the military are always sayings things along these lines. It doesn’t mean they are racists.
When one is in the military they are suronded by people from all over the place, from all walks of life. You become friends with this people no matter what their religion or nationality are. This is because, for one, you rely on these people. You trust them with your life and realze there is no room what-so-ever for any narrow-minded bigotry. Second, there is just an innocent way in which brothers in arms view each other. They don’t judge like most civilians do, but they do have to have a sense of humor.
Prince Harry should have never been demonized like her was. He never should have apologized. When “brothers in arms,” and I do mean brothers, can laugh and make fun of each other’s differences it is an act more innocent and tolerant than any kind of forced politically correct nonsense some P.C. enforcer could ever come up with.

Get over it. I’ve worked with Chimps, Spics, Commies, Wobblies, Square-heads, Towel heads, Racist Oppressors, et. al., good guys, who were at the time working with an Ami, Honky, Capitalist pig, Infidel, etc., re: me.
At that time we had in our compound a cat named after Bill Clinton, and a dog named after Boris Yeltsin.
Who’s going to cover your back if you get into the Kimchee? The Nog, Chimp, Square-head et. al.. Who’s going to cover their’s? The Racist Oppressor, Honky, or Wobbly.
Prince Harry is a real guy. Leave him alone.

Prince Harry is the Prince of Britain serving in the British Army, talking to his British mates. He has no need to answer to, or apologise to, anyone.
I am deeply offended at any insults hurled at my Royal family and my country, both of whom I would gladly kill for. My life is of no consequence compared with the fate of my Nation, my people.
Any person who does not swear allegiance to the British crown has no right to live in Britain or call themselves British. If anyone has any complaints about Britain, its crown, its people or history, they should leave now or be hung for treason.
Communism and being British are incompatible. Islam and being British are incompatible. Democracy and being British are incompatible.
God save the Queen! Long live Prince Harry!
I hope it won’t be too long now before this hopeless and destructive political democratic experiment is overturned, and the rule of our great natiion and land is turned over to our rightful leaders; the crown and her military.

Like other commentators have pointed out, “Paki” is NOT simply a shortening of Pakistani. The insult has a long history in Britain that any British person would instantly pick up on. I don’t see any problem with Harry’s behavior because 20-somethings often push the envelope regarding race and sex (see Hillary Clinton cutout) and it’s no big deal, but I cringed reading your “perhaps there is a derogatory intent” blather. Perhaps? Learn some British history before you write a column about a British prince.

british prince or not, this kid is one light bulb short of a three way bulb. he did show up costumed in a nazi uniform with a swastika armband. he can’t be bright, c’mon. something is wrong with him.

having said that, whatever is wrong with him, is far more wrong with the pakistanee dad who is reported to have said “he should apologize to the islamabad government”.

I am so weary of these pol pot wannabees. can’t we all just not get along. go be crazy in your own stupid country with your terrorist connections and malevolent hatreds. now, i am really starting to hate them, for real. i can’t stand seeing anyone wearing a scarf lately, even regular one’s we tie under the chin. so, pleeeeze, islamabadniks, shutup, already.

To remove any remaing doubts about its decadence, decline, degeneration and death, the next thing you know the sorry subjects of the Europeon Neo-Soviet’s once great (or so they say) squalidly fasciSSocialistic offshore satellite state, will be mounting a country-wide mass-hysteria — and the piling up of tons of every-bit-as-dead flowers — over the, when viewed consequentially, quite reasonable demise of some seriously serial slut who was prior to her pissed Parisian facilitated passing pretending to princess-ness.

Dear Bugs,
I fear that your once-great British colony was hijacked by self-serving traitors to the crown and the English speaking peoples. I know the majority of American people to be hard-working decent, Christian people. It is not too late for you to be reconciled with your ancestral family. I am sure Her Majesty would give due consideration to an application to rejoin Britain and work, united, for the greater glory of our one true Nation, if you will but renounce your wilfull ways, your endless lust for money, your unprincipled everchanging ethics, and put your faith and your loyalty in your God given representatives, here on Earth.
God Bless America.
God Bless Our Nation.

Hell hath indeed frozen over, I agree with Cedarford on something; the entire nature of space and time, may be at risk. Clearly he didn’t mean it in a derogatory way, but so what Army training is not polite or politically correct. This brouhaha is designed to challenge any chance of Prince Harry’s accession to the leadership. Both are gloriously politically incorrect with every fiber of their being, they have been tested in battle, in Helmand, the latter asked to be retired if he could not go to Iraq. The Muslim Salafi/Wahhabi lobby and their ameliorist allies, wish to wash out that strain of English character. They are throwbacks
to a seemingly long gone age. They are nothing like their father, the Dhimmi prince, biding his time to become King.

Now because they ignite the elite sensibilities disdain, in that benighted Isle, they attract criticism like your favorite idol of Goddess worship, Governor Sarah Palin .a throwback from the era of the American frontier, who jars modern sensibilities with her no nonsense pragmatism. You didn’t think I;d let you get
away that easily. Like the Huntress Diana, like Boadicea, and Thatcher; they don’t suffer fools gladly.

The world is way overdue for another example of just how REALLY deadly dangerous a pissed-off America, home to the world’s most creative, innovative, productive and industrious men, can be.

We are long overdue to provide this generation’s Euro-barbarians, the Chicomms and the already doomed Russians — and our own Stalinists, crypto-fascistic totalitarians of every stripe, their camp followers, their uniformally-Goebbelsesque one-party media — and every other “Democrat” — another Hiroshima, another Tokyo, another Dresden, another Berlin and another Nagasaki!

And to thus create from the medieval and from the barbaric another modern Japan, another modern Germany — and another 60-odd years, at least, free from world war.

You sir, are a cad and a bounder. If the Princess of Wales sees fit to fornicate with every Tom, Dick & Harry, that is her Royal perrogative. Personally, I found her most distasteful on every level and totally unsuited to her position in character, intellect and emotion. However, I would never be so bold as to suggest that the heir to our throne had clearly taken leave of his senses and would better off have spent more time talking to his beloved plants and driving his Aston Martin, whilst waiting for a more suitable companion to become available.
I am sure no such poor judgemennt has ever been exhibited by your illustrious elected representatives.
As a man of honour, despite this unfortunate episode, I remain loyal and obedient to the institution of the British Royal crown.

I served in the U.S. Army from 1973-76. Much of the time, because I was single, I lived in the barracks. Half the guys were black. The other half were white, Hispanic, Native American, younameit. We all called each other names that would shock the PC crowd, but there was neither rancor, nor racism, nor ill intent involved. Men tend to have fun with things that way. We like to go out of bounds for the sake of mocking authority and propriety, and it’s our way of engaging in levity in a truly good-natured way. I normally don’t call black people niggahs because much of the time it isn’t appropriate and it IS demeaning. But among fellow soldiers who were calling each other honky and niggah it was just a kind of rough, affectionate way that soldiers talk to each other. Outsiders would NEVER understand it, unless they are guys on a sports team. We share a bond, a common mission, live and work around each other, and so many other nuances of relating that it’s impossible to catalog here. The context and nuance was completely understood by everyone. So much so that if, and it rarely happened, one did use those words in a threatening and insulting way EVERYONE knew it. And it was not fun at all, since it indicated a fight was about to begin or that some guys had some things they needed to work on.

Everyone knows an insult when they hear it, if they are a part of the context of the language. Outsiders often miss both the insults and the affectionate ways of banter.

I wish the PC crowd in Britain would just leave Harry alone. For God’s sake half the U.K. is already surrendering to the Muzzies and their demands. What a petty, cowardly lot.

I’ve heard Americans be referred to as “Septics” (Septic Tanks.. Yanks) on BBC. I would imagine that’s offensive to some. I certainly wouldn’t use a word that way. Apparently it’s OK to say on internationally broadcast TV but calling your friend a “Paki” in private (although videotaped by a friend apparently) isn’t? That’s an odd sense of priorities you have there.

As you rightly imply, our once glorious Nation has been overrun by persons of the marxist persuasion. The European Nations too. Is it possible that the Russians have rid themselves of these murderers and driven them out into our lands? Certainly not until after 60 million dead, and generations of horror and the destruction of family values and common decency. I wish the Russian Nation well in its recovery, but fear that its best people were killed.
So, this is the fate that my Nation endures.
How is your Nation faring in these international-socialist days? Rampant murder of the unborn, rampart divorce, rampant drug and alcohol abuse, political correctness, inter-racial warfare, the destruction of your manufacturing industries, multi-culturalism, multi-racialism, destabilising massive immigration, a generally marxist media, entertainment industry, education industry and government, and now, in Obama, a president schooled in marxism by his marxist mother, a man of no Nation with no loyalties to any particular people.
Please enjoy youself speaking Mexican.
One Nation Under God.

I get the impression that you don’t much like us Americans? Is that a fair assessment?

Like I said, I think some people are engaging in one of the worst vices a human being can indulge in: pettiness. What men in the barracks say to one another and about each other should stay in the barracks, unless it really signals a bad problem not being dealt with. And if there’s a problem, the wise officer and nco knows exactly how it is to be handled.

Buckley once said that his mission was to save conservatism from kooks. I doubt if that noble goal was anywhere near achievable, when one looks at the rabid kooks on these conservative websites, talking about segregation in the year 2009.

They are also attracting …members of the BNP! – the very worst, that great nation, the cradle of human liberty – has to offer (well maybe along with the soccer/footbal hooligans.)

Unless those of you -whites – with commonsense band together to PROACTIVELY drown out the kooks’ voices, conservatism is going to be relegated to the dustbin of american history. We need an articulate and smoother-talking version of Bush – acceptable to all ethnicities. Stop pining for Reagan.

Hey, Hindu, are you aware of the hundreds of years’ worth of slaughter and violence that Islam has put on India? Bill Warner has conservatively estimated that, over fourteen centuries of jihad, Islam has murdered over 270 million human beings. Most of them in the Hindu Kush and in India itself.

Call me Islamophobic – I’m not offended by that at all, since fear of Islam is a rational response to what it has done and continues to intend for the rest of humanity.

I used to be a man of the Left (I left the Left in 1987)and I, a Catholic, often had to defend Jews and Israel from the Jew hatred and conspiratorial miasma of fellow Marxists – SOME OF WHOM WERE ETHNIC JEWS THEMSELVES!

I assure you, Hindu, that the Left has more than its share of hate – and other vices as well. Pride, sloth, and envy chief among them.

I’m not saying that it was a good thing for Prince Harry to call a classmate a Paki, unless they were friends and, like soldiers everywhere, will use epithets in a playful sense. Soldiers do that, you know. But if you haven’t served in the military you wouldn’t know a thing about that.

Apparently we have very sensitive people in our new world. All of us have the race card in our pockets and it makes for great attention. All of us except the rich white people of course. Being a white guy, I had to throw that in. hehe

Every time I hear someone getting up in arms over a racial name I’m reminded of my High School Chemistry class and my science teacher in it. Mr. Clark was a short, bald, white guy with a harry back that everyone knew about. He had one simple rule when it came to making fun of him, that you had to be ready to recieve as well as you got.

Well I am a big, round, Half Chinese, Half White nerd, and when I got into his class we hit it off right away. Well this one week a moron in my class started calling me a Jap and making all these Japanese remarks to/about me. I didn’t give one iota about it because 1. He was a moron and 2. I’m not Japanese.

One day he does again within earshot of Mr Clark. And I swear this is an exact quote. He stops in the middle of the lecture, slams his book on the desk and says, “He’s a Chink damn it! Get it right!”

Oh my god I laughed so hard and no one complained. Because everyone knew we were cool with each other. I’d shudder to think what would happen to him today, and it’s barely 10 years later! O.O!

what Prince Harry should of said is i was talking to my mates so bugger off.
the term used here amongst returning veterans is Hadji, the first time i heard it was on the cartoon channel and the show was Johnny Quest, his little Indian friend was named Hadji. the Italians called us Joes for GI joes i believe the term for Brits is Tommies. so whats a little Paki amongst friends?

It’s a war-zone, dangit! The rules are simply different. Quit trying to put political correctness in that environment. Such can get you killed.

You need your emotions for strength in combat, even the bad ones… Nay, especially the bad ones. Hate is the best of them all. It allows you to kill the other guy. Trying to tolerate him will make you come out second in a two-Army fight.

More power to Harry for having the sense to abandon such nonsense in that situation.

This is hilarious. I have a multi-ethnic group of friends and the racial slurs and stereotypes fly around constantly. Farouk is a raghead who blows stuff up, Dave is a spook (amongst other things) who steals stuff, Sam is good at math and has small genitals and I’m the Man, oppressing them all using my Jewish connections at the synagogue. We are Hollywood’s version of what a group of friends should consist of, except that we all make openly racist and bigoted comments about each other. In the same way a group of white people make fun of each others differences. Calling Sam yellow is no more offensive to him then him calling me fat. Both are facts.

Sh##t, I hate it when some scumbag on the street,some fool upstart gangsta wannabe or hobo liquor bum, who I know fer fact didn’t come out of my Mother’s womb calls me “bro” because he knows it raises him up a notch an’ drags me down one towards his (It is also like calling my mother a whore)…same with grocery clerks who call me “sweetie” in the context of a community that uses sexual relations as their means of harrasin’ those who are bein’ sorely takin’ advantage of…suddenly some complete stranger is feignin’ intimacy, makin’ a mockery of it…an’ includin’ themselves in what I was raised to consider as guarded acquaintence….it’s purposefully agitatin’ when somone knows they are casually in the positon to organize opinion against your personal integrity of experience and character…..the n’ word doesn’t work for me because lookin’ in to the etymology of it, it refers to some degree of miserliness or hording……..an’ quite frankly how it portends to the African populations as having a quantity of something I want or need is nonsense to me.
It must have been some scumbag hick who coined the term after some African slave girl was holdin’ out on him…

Well, now Prince Harry’s Dad (the elegant Charles) has been exposed as having used some unknown moniker toward some previously unknown friend of his!

Pretty soon the people who want to be offended are going to have divide themselves either alphabeticall or, perhaps, order in which they were offended, so that they can be properly interviewed in turn as their complaints are publicized.

Sheesh. Everybody really needs to get a life.
(Especially the Muslims and the PC crowd)

A couple of decades ago, the British used to chant “Pakis, go home” during protests of the masses of Pakistanis who were migrating to England at the time. This is why it is “racially charged.” It was meant to be insulting at the time, but as many have already reiterated, it was before Prince Harry’s time, and regardless, I don’t think saying a racially charged word makes anyone a racist. It’s just “insensitive” as they say. Either way, the debate about it and Prince Harry’s apology is even more damaging to race relations than anything he said, because it enables the race McCarthyites even more. What a waste of time.

OMG-PRINCE HARRY USED A RACIAL EPITHET. Geez-Chris Rock uses them regularly. Oh poor me-How many heads of innocents has Harry cut off? How many AIRPLANES has Harry flown into SKYSCRAPERS with THOUSANDS of people in them? How many SUICIDE CHILDREN has Harry trained? How many of HARRYS friends attend “religious institutions” where its taught its OK to murder those of any other religion? Ive used the term RAGHEAD. Thats right its become I am a bigot. IM BIGOTTED AGAINST AN IDEOLOGY THAT PREACHES MASS MURDER. IM AGAINST AN IDEOLOGY THAT PREACHES DEMANING TREATMENT OF WOMEN. I AGAINST AN IDEOLOGY THAT PREACHES HATRED. So call me a racist. In this case I am one and with good reason.

Good grief. I’m an American who works with mainly Australians in an Australian oilfield and I get called “Seppo” all the time – everyone in the field has nicknames, and that’s what they’ve christened me. It’s rhyming slang (Septic Tank –> Yank) and it never even occurred to me that I should be offended.

While working in Canada as a Tech one of my favorite clients labeled everything in the office: P.A.K.I. My curiosity peaked, I asked what it stood for–and was told, “Paki–me–don’t you know I’m from Pakistan?” So I maybe it is context, is it not? An associate suggested that many people originating from Pakistan are muslim, and they tend to be very sensitive. Could be, But, the question I have is How did the news get the film in the first place?? Was there a theft, or some kind of breach of his privacy?? Heaven Forbid! the media would never do something like that! (Would they?) Seriously, If the people involved are not insulted, and the movie was personal, for private use, then maybe the media and everyone else should just MYOB.

If you have views that differ from the left, you are a bigot.
If you utter a benign statement that could be interpreted as being politically incorrect, you are a bigot.
If you are from the south, you are a bigot.
If you are conservative, you are a bigot.
If you do not believe in Affirmative Action, you are a bigot.
If you did not vote for BO, you are a bigot.
If you are Evangelical, you are a bigot.
If you voted against Gay Marriage, you are a bigot.
If you are against illegals and open borders, you are a bigot.
If you complain about entitlement programs, you are a bigot.
What did I leave out,
Oh, if you have a pet name for a combat buddie-you are a bigot

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