Ilya Kovalchuk called and screamed at his agent for getting him in this mess…ok, I made that part up but I bet Ilya is as nervous about the team that owes him $100 million making good as Washington Mutual was about loaning $1.1 million for all of those 1200 square foot condos in Culver City, eh? What happened to Washington Mutual? Exactly. But hey Newark has good schools…Culver City’ s suck.

Devils are on pace to lose $20 million…well, that doesn’t sound so bad. Don’t the L.A. Kings lose more than that? Oh wait, L.A. Live, shopping, restaurants, entertainment, Lakers and Clippers renting but hey, maybe Jeff Vanderbeek gets a cut from that arena close Newark hooker that charges by the hour and gives out-of-town folk half off if they bring a friend for a sword fight. I enjoyed this part of the article:

Vanderbeek, who owns 47 percent of the team, does not have the money to fund losses, while billionaire Ray Chambers, who also owns 47 percent, no longer wants to fund the team.

Last year, Vanderbeek unsuccessfully tried to sell Chambers’ stake. Chambers has offered to pay lenders $24 million to get out of his financial guarantee, indicating that he believes the club is not worth more than its roughly $200 million in team and stadium debt.

Chambers has declined comment.

Back to Parise.

You know what all of this means right? We’ll get rid of Jarret Stoll, perhaps Dustin Penner and then the Detroit Red Wings will land Zach Parise as a rental and sign him in the offseason…or maybe the Minnesota Wild get their home state boy back. The latter would make me happier than seeing Parise wearing that disgusting winged wheel.

All I want for my February is Zach Parise on Mike Richards’ left. Oh, a boy can dream.

26 replies

Yeah we gotta make a serious move for him. Who would you give up for parise?
JJ, or Doughty or Brown, bernier? Or what combination of players and picks? It’s gonna take some serious bait. We’d have to get an agreement he’d sign here right? Otherwise we’d fuck ourselves.

Tampering can be waived. Kings can get NJ’s consent to speak with Parise before the trade and enter into a handshake agreement (even a confirming letter I believe) before the official trade. That is how and why some players can be traded and immediately re-sign. I am not 100% sure of this but believe it to be true.

Parise would be great for excitement and some improvement, but it wont matter overall. Theyll still lose. It’s the same as with Mike Richards. People thought, we get Richards, we’re an elite team now. No, it just means instead of having one really good forward, you have two (and Justin Williams at the next tier). Still not nearly enough. With Parise, now you have three (and Justin Williams). Better? Sure, but still not enough.

Jonathan Toews, Patrick Kane, Patrick Sharp, Marian Hossa = 4 ELITE forwards for the Blackhawks. Toews, Kane, and Hossa are all better than anyone the Kings have and probably Parise too, not to mention Stalberg playing at a level that’s also better than any King right now. Keith and Seabrook are also considerably better than Doughty and Johnson.

The Red Wings have Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Franzen, only three, so the Kings would match them there, except they have Datsyuk and the Kings still wouldnt, not to mention Lidstrom is still much better than Doughty, Kronwall is better than Johnson, Filppula is playing great hockey, Hudler, Helm, even Bertuzzi this year, Cleary, all better depth than the Kings have on their 2nd-4th lines.

Boston has tons of quantity over the Kings, really more than anyone in quantity of good quality forwards. Krejci, Horton, Lucic, Bergeron, Seguin, Marchand, Peverley playing great, that’s seven.

Sharks, 1 Thornton, 2 Marleau, 3 Havlat, 4 Couture, 5 Pavelski, that’s already two more than the Kings would have even with Parise, not to mention Clowe. Brent Burns and Dan Boyle aren’t bad, either.

The Kings just have nothing coming up from their system to help them. Sure, you can trade for maybe one Parise, if you’re lucky, like the Sharks traded for Thornton, but you also need your own guys, your Clowe’s, Pavelski’s, and Couture who is on pace to flirt with 40 goals this season, your Marchand’s and Lucic’s, your Ryan Kesler’s and Alex Burrows’.

NO team can win anything without developing their own top top FORWARDS. That’s right, not even developing your own elite dmen will be enough. Just look at Nashville, no one has done a better job developing elite defensemen, and it hasnt gotten them anywhere. You can only keep the other team from scoring so much, eventually you have to score yourself.

Good teams, it seems like they have someone new coming up and surprising every year. The Flyers signed Matt Read this offseason, no one had heard of him, and hes a legit top-six forward for them, should score 25-30 goals. Great skating, hands, fantastic wristshot, really good hockey sense, good strength protecting the puck, hes basically a Giroux light, and thats still good. He came out of nowhere!

Brad Marchand came up for the Bruins last season, he can do it all! In his first season, before hes even got his bearings of the league, he’s that good? Speed? Check. Hands? Check. Hockey sense? Check. Defensively responsible? Check. Agitator? Check. Good finisher? Certainly more than adequate, not elite but very good. Physical? Check. This is your complete, prototypical “canadian” hockey player, the perfect second line forward or swing man for your line up.

Even the Chicago Blackhawks, a team maligned for their depth by the fans, with a GM who, like Lombardi, has struggled finding good role players, even they just had Andrew Shaw and Jimmy Hayes come from the minors and make a big impact. They both look like the real deal, like they have futures as NHL players who can contribute. Shaw scored more goals coming up from the AHL and playing 10 games than Penner or Stoll probably has all year.

WHERE ARE THESE GUYS FOR THE KINGS? WHERE ARE THE SURPRISES? ALL THOSE 2ND, 3RD, 4TH ROUND DRAFT PICKS, WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM?

This team sucks, its GM may be suspect. Any GM that takes 10 years to even get in the playoffs, or however long it was, I mean come on, just look at Jim Harbaugh. It should take one season, two or three tops. Thats what a Bill Walsh does. I dont remember the situation with the Patriots when Belichik took over, but I doubt it took him 10 years to turn around. There are always the pieces out there where, if youre smart enough to identify them, they can make you a good team. Taking 10 years just shows Lombardi did it the slowest possible way, getting 7 draft picks each year, 70 total, and waiting those 10 years playing the odds that hed get some good players. Anyone can do that, theres no creativity there.

Maybe he just needs another five years, the way that he operates. Maybe we jumped the gun as fans expecting better than really we should have. Lombardi built the defense, he definitely did that, which consists of six players. That’s 10 years there, and they worked to build the defense. The forward group is 12 players, but the top 9 are really what matter, so the top 6 would take another 10 years because thats 6 players, 3 more for the 3rd line another 5, I think we should check back in 15 years, and the team should be ready.

I feel you…
I think Lombardi came in 2006, I believe (or maybe late 2005 after the draft, of course)…so 5+ years…and as this blog mentioned before, if Lombardi was GM in 2005, he likely would’ve passed on Kopitar in the draft…could you imagine having another Hickey in Manchester instead of Kopitar!?

Something I’ll never be able to get over is the 2006 Draft…Lombardi takes Bernier 11th overall (who is now a backup goalie…but I understand the pick) …and Trevor Lewis (4th liner good for 5 points a season) 17th overall. Claude Giroux, Chris Stewart, Patrik Berglund, Milan Lucic all available at the time he took Lewis…could you imagine Giroux on our team right now? Playing wing for Kopitar or Richards?

Lombardi has done a lot for the team defensively…no question. But the problem w/ his philosophy of “build from the net out” doesn’t work if you don’t build beyond your own blue line…

I’m depressed!!
I think your ‘article’ hits the nail on the head. We were sold on building a state of the art training facility and farm system while building from within through draft picks. 6 years later (Not sure where you get Lombardi for 10 years) this is what we have? As you say, ‘Where are the surprises’?!
Finally giving in to the fact that our lack of scoring is not due to poor chemistry or coaching, I look for solutions…. I’m depressed.

Yeah, one or two posters kept pushing the fact that it was due to coaching, system, chemistry etc.
The fact is that Lewis and Richardson fit very much w Lombardi’s way (from what I can tell) of seeing things.

It’s like having an extra dman who plays up front. Problem is, they actually might win more games and then get to the end of games without struggling just to get to OT, if they had some forwards with a bit more offensive panache.

I really like Clifford, but it doesn’t take a lot to see that he appears to have a fairly limited upside offensively.
I mean, maybe he’ll surprise and score twenty five goals one of these years. But I’m just not seeing that. It takes the soft hands (which he doesn’t seem to possess) and the anticipation of knowing where the play is going to be able to jump on loose pucks…. and I haven’t seen that either.

Stoll and Penner are playing with a slightly above average (said tongue in cheek… in other words very very good centerman) in Mike Richards and they aren’t exactly taking advantage of it.

I have nothing more to add about Dean Lombardi at the moment, but I think he’s done an above average job. I’d like to see a GM who does a really exceptional job.

@3Team and Ryan too
3Team, you’ve clearly put a lot of time into something that I am so thoroughly convinced of, but haven’t taken the time that you did to go into such detail. For the sake of accuracy, as Ryan says, DL came in after the 2005 season. So thats one thing.

I too have followed all the specifics that you pointed out wrt other teams. I was checking one year (can’t remember which year it was) where the Hawks got like three great players in the second round. I was like…. wow, are you kidding me?
And as you aptly point out, you have new ones coming up like Shaw.

I did a post yesterday on Insider. I’ll copy it in here: problem for the Kings. I personally am far more concerned about this org’s lack of development of their forwards. Who is in the system now that we can look forward to being a serious contributor next year. I’ll tell you who. No one. Tyler Toffoli is not going to come straight out of juniors and become a thirty (or even twenty) goal scorer on the Kings. I’d Love to be proven wrong on that one, but I seriously doubt he’ll even play anywhere but Manchester next year, unless they bring him up to fill in for injuries. Otherwise no one at all from Manch that looks to make noise. THAT is their principal problem. Last two years they had problems scoring 5-on-5. Each new season I couldn’t see where they would rectify the problem….. and they didn’t. Now I don’t see how they will rectify it again going into next season Unless DL makes some very very intelligent and savvy moves.

So I don’t have loads of faith in DL when it comes to drafting and developing forwards. Someone else had a Great response to one of my posts on this matter on Insider. What he said was, when you’re doing a financial portfolio all the experts recommend diversity. Because diversity represents balance. Well as we all know, DL spent so many damned picks on goalies, dmen and then sprinkled in were some frankly pretty poor choices for forwards. These late round smurfs who he was probably hoping would be able to do something amazing, and then of course Lewis. But Lewis if the perfect Lombardi forward in my opinion, he’s a defenseman who just seems to masquerade as a forward. I mean, he’s been outscored by Matt Greene… what is this?!!

It’s almost like DL drafts Clifford in the 2nd round (tough, not great hands) and Boston drafts Lucic and Marchand both in the 3rd round. (Sorry…. Lucic was a low 2nd).
And that my friend is why the Kings are in the shape that they’re in and a very good reason as to why they have problems scoring goals.

Up to this point I don’t care much for Lombardi and his scouting staff’s ‘feel’ when it comes to drafting forwards.
So…. three first round picks: Hickey, Lewis and Teubert (=Penner) which have provided not much of anything to building the team. Mistakes happen to everyone and every team, but if you wish to compete with the elite teams, thats not gonna get it done.

Oh, and also USHA#17 pointed out once that drafting all of these dmen has actually created a bit of a logjam at defense.
It’s Easier to get a UFA dman, than it is to get a UFA dynamic forward.
I still am rather amazed that in the draft of two years ago he drafted another defenseman and then in the 2nd round last year (I believe) Another goalie.

I remember looking up Lewis’s stats to see how good he was, and playing in the USHL. There wasn’t much on him compared to the others in his draft class, but that’s normal for the USA development program back then.
We didn’t have the Scouts back then that we do now, but it does make you think, what if???
What’s more frustrating is developing slowly, then pissing those guys away.
Moulson, Boyle & Purcell…..now start the what if’s…..fuck me!!!!!
Now add Simmonds, let’s see how Schenn finishes the season, and the playoff’s.
It get’s worse……..we have 1 fucking draft pick in the first 3 rounds of what could be a monster fucking draft!!!!!
Let’s say fuck the development….try to get any picks we can for Penner & Stoll from some contending teams out east.
Keep Mitchell if we are still in the playoff hunt, or fuck it…..he’ll bring the highest value right now…get some scoring or the highest pick possible.
Start concidering Quick’s next contract as priority #1
Give Cliche his shot, King couldn’t be less productive than Penner, Stoll, Hunter, Richardson, Lewis or Clifford.
Let’s see what Kozun can do, If Mitchell brings a good price, Drewiske has to bring it, or Hickey or even Muzzin. This season’s offensive woes cannot be fixed by trading our UFA’s. And our UFA’s are not going to bring us the cup!!!!!

I would like to see Cliche get a shot, but King was the slowest player I have ever seen. Ok, not the slowest, but as slow as the Sega Genesis Larry Robinson in NHL 92. He makes Penner look like a speedster.

Yeah, what honestly honestly surprises the hell out of me is, how is it that all of us see this stuff and he seems not to?

I mean, surely he can’t be that blinkered (actually maybe he can be). The thing is, he may still be so convinced that because some of these guys scored thirty at one time in their careers that they’re just ‘off’. But it’s more like…. hey Dean…. they are Good players (JW, Gagne etc) but the reality may be that some of these guys have been too racked with serious injuries (I mean, we aren’t talking broken pinkie fingers here – see Gagne Simon as a case in point), that he’s dreaming.

What about young new talent that actually has what I’ll call a FLOURISH for creativity, skating and passing and shooting a puck?

Call me crazy, but I actually think Semin would go off if traded to the Kings. I know all the stories of him. But, I have also read quite a few blogs and articles that he is a much better defensive player than given credit for (Bodreau wasn’t a huge fan of him). He has the talent to be one of the top 5 players in the league. Change of scenery would do him well. I realize it’s taking a chance, but what trade is a lock? Depending on what we would have to give up, what else do we have to lose?

Can be intimidated and knocked off the puck. Could use more muscle on his 6-2 frame. An unpredictable fellow, he needs to better utilize his linemates and work on his defense. Is somewhat injury prone and moody.

I’m also a bit miffed that Bud Holloway was never given a look. If Dwight King could get a look…if Moller got numerous looks…why not him? Honestly confused about that one.

Also, I sent an email to Surly and Scribe about this…but after last game’s loss against the Avs, I began to wonder if Quick would actually want to remain in a Kings uniform when he hits free agency. When will enough be enough for him? I can’t imagine his position of going out and playing great nearly every game, and continuously losing 2-1……1-0 games. The goal support is embarassing…I’m beginning to feel nervous that he won’t want to stay…which will crush this team because without his play this year, the Kings would likely be sitting in 12/13 place in the West.

Bud Holloway was an opportunity lost IMO. He scored some big goals, and steadily improved. I do think because he lost patience, and he made a bad choice, but you could hardly blame him for the choice he made.

He never stuck out of camp because he wasn’t big enough, or strong enough. Moller did stick out of camp but was never big enough, or strong enough to stay in the line up.

King is big, and strong enough, but doesn’t play that way (at the momment, see Boyle). I think Kings biggest issue is his hands around the net.

Cliche has taken some strides, but probably won’t get a chance with the Kings either.

It’s frustrating to see that every game right now is a dog fight, and the Kings don’t have the luxury of calling up guys to gain experience.

Lombardi made it clear he had a 5 year plan to turn the Kings around, getting the Kings back in the playoffs, establishing a core, and then build around that.

He has delivered on getting the Kings back into the playoffs, while he is still is getting that core finished.

Building a team from the back out has proven to be a success. The last pieces of this overhaul are starting to come together, but either a system flaw, bad decisions and evaluations of players have taken a few steps back.

Lombardi does not deserve another 5 years. The fans have not jumped the gun, not when we keep hearing the time is now in year 6 of this 5 year plan.

Lombardi and his staff believe they are among the elite teams in the NHL?
We aren’t there yet.

Being the envy of almost every team in the NHL because you have a list of prospects isn’t doing anything right now. Its only on paper, not on the ice.

I question some of his recent drafting decisions. Sometimes drafting the best player available might not be the best strategy when there is an area of need. Did he really need to pick Forbort when the Kings needed speed at the wing position, and Etem would have been a better choice IMO.

Taking Gibson, another goalie, when you still had a need at the forward position, regardless made no sense to me.

Trading for Richards and his contract was a good move. I think giving up what he did, was bad decision. A trade has to be weighed on what we received. What we gave up was based on future risk

Lombardi really missed when he gave Edmonton a 1st in 2011 a 3rd round pick in 2012, and Teubert for Pancakes. A trade has to be weighed on what we received. What we gave up was based on future risk. FUBAR Dean! Penner walks, while Edmonton has 3 players regardless.

I look at Brian Burke, and he is aggressive, and took a big chance giving up what he did for Kessel. Toronto is getting what they traded for in Kessel, while Boston has really benefited also.

Having to spend more, give up more to get players to come here has to be an issue with the organization or something we don’t understand.

I believe the Kings do have enough to give New Jersey in a sign and trade, but it would be a matter of who.

If Parise is going to get 7mill plus, LA can’t afford this. Penner/Stoll coming off the books, will free up some decent CAP space, but not quite enough unless they can trade someone for picks.

As much as I would like to see Parise, Lombardi as a GM has yet to sign a marquee UFA, and I don’t believe he will sign Parise.

Neil, are you the one on LAKI who just goes by Neil? I think you might be as there is a resemblance in terms of content. In any case….. am completely and utterly in agreement with your take on things.

No one can say that DL didn’t build a good defensive foundation. So far one can say though that the focus has been so thoroughly on d (and goal) that there is a real lack of balance.

Btw, I said last week that the Kings reminded me of the nfl Ravens (though those guys are harder to play against). So defensive oriented ….. and that they wouldn’t win the Super Bowl. Well they didn’t even make it to the Super Bowl. And at least they’re trying to address their offensive issues by signing Bolton and all.

I also did some stat checking and you would be astonished knowing the goal totals amongst the elite teams top two or top three wingers. Top two wingers for Chicago have more than 40 goals. We have seven wings with a total of 38. Three wingers on Boston have 49 between them. 11 more than seven of our wingers. I’m not gonna break it all down, but it just shows that the upside of this team as currently constructed is gonna be somewhat limited. No matter who the coach is.

If Joe Thornton isnt a 40 goal scorer on San Jose, why would Kopitar be a 40 goal scorer on Chicago, or Boston, (or San Jose?). Kopitar is not a goal scorer. He does not have a goal scorer’s skillset, just as Thornton does not have a goal scorer’s skillset. You can look at Henrik Sedin, too, although hes a different type of player in some ways, but hes still not a goal scorer.

Goal scorers generally have a skill set oriented around speed, skating, stickhandling, and good shots, with at least enough strength to protect the puck at a minimum (think Phil Kessel), if not physical strength in abundance (think Alex Ovechkin).

I mean there you have it, right there, the two prototypical post-lockout goal scorers. Kessel is the more finesse oriented kind, less outwardly physical, but a rocket shot. Ovechkin is stronger and more physical. But besides that, they are very similar. Blazing speed, agility, edge control, just fantastic skating, mid-length sticks that they carry out towards their side, sort of hunched over always in an attacking position where they can shoot or stickhandle, with their strong hand a little farther down the stick than someone like Kopitar, and they have great hands and a great shot.

That is not Anze Kopitar. Kopitar is completely different. Kopitar isn’t slow, but he’s not blazingly fast, and he doesnt often challenge defenseman with his speed, either. Where Ovechkin and Kessel try to skate past people or stickhandle around them, Kopitar stays more to the outside, stops up. He has a longer, less precise stick, that is rarely in an attacking position. He keeps it in a more passive position when he has the puck, which is better for shielding the puck with his butt, but not as precise in stickhandling or shooting. Kopitar’s skillset is based off his size, balance, long reach, and smarts. He wants to slow the game down. He wants to gain possession of it down low, protect it, create space down low by continued cycling, and hopefully a goal will come out of that for him or his teammates.

But he’s not directly going at the net, scoring goals. He’s just not that type of player. I don’t know how to describe it any other way than what makes him good, the skills he have, only make him good in a certain way. If Phil Kessel tried to play like Anze Kopitar, and never challenged defenseman off the rush, or stickhandled and scored goals, if he just dumped it in and cycled down low, he would be okay, but he wouldnt be that good. You gravitate towards what your skillset allows you to excel at. Kopitar is not an elite speedster goal scorer off the rush, so that’s not how he plays. What he is elite at is protecting the puck down low, slowing the game down and controlling it, at his tempo. And he’s good at that, and not Ovechkin style goalscoring, because his strengths are his physical size, reach, puck protection, and smarts, not his speed, stickhandling, release, etc.

That’s why when people say Kopitar should be an Art Ross candidate, I dont think they know what theyre talking about. That’s Evgeni Malkin territory. Evgeni Malkin is someone who, at least offensively, can do basically everything Kopitar can, while also being able to a lot of what Ovechkin, Kessel, Giroux, etc can. That’s why Malkin is better than Kopitar, and better than Kessel, too, even better than Ovechkin now, indisputably, where maybe it was a coin toss a few years ago.

So now, Kopitar is not a 40 goal scorer, he does not have that skill set. Kopitar’s value is in his ability to control the pace of his game, keep the puck in the attacking zone way more than the defensive zone, and just by virtue of it being in the attacking zone so much, it will eventually get shot in from the point or on some play, whether off Kopitar’s shot, pass, or where he doesn’t get a point at all, but it was his ability to keep the puck possessed in the offensive zone that had something to do with it.

That’s why you will see way more assists from him than goals. He’s not a goal scorer. The Kings need someone separate to score goals.

And I mean, just think about it. If you’re at all familiar with the NHL, when you read off these names here, you will immediately get the image in your head of the player, and you will see where Kopitar is much different.

Now they are not all perfectly in the Ovechkin or Kessel mode, but they are all different types of players than Kopitar. They do a lot more off the rush, they’re less passive, they’re typically more based on speed. Even a James Neal type currently 5th in NHL scoring, hes a goal scorer. Yes, a big strength of his is his size and strength, like Kopitar, but the stick, the precision, the aggressiveness vs. Kopitar’s passive style, the ability to score off the rush better, there are differenences.