skirtcafe.org

Skirt Cafe is an on-line community dedicated to exploring, promoting and advocating skirts and kilts as a fashion choice for men, formerly known as men in skirts. We do this in the context of men's fashion freedom --- an expansion of choices beyond those commonly available for men to include kilts, skirts and other garments. We recognize a diversity of styles our members feel comfortable wearing, and do not exclude any potential choices. Continuing dialog on gender is encouraged in the context of fashion freedom for men. See here for more details.

Logging into All4 I was met with the usual suggestions/recommendations of programmes that I may like. Spookily, the first one had a picture of a man wearing a dress!! - how weird is that? The programme being recommended was 'First Dates' a reality type dating show that originated here in the UK about 5 years ago. The show format has since been adapted in the USA, Canada, Netherlands, Germany, Sweden, Australia, NZ and more, so some of you may be familiar with it. If not, have a look at their wiki page to see how the show works.

In this show, Paul – a helicopter pilot, who, since divorce hasn't dated very much and this is his first time in a dress on a date. He's been matched up with, confusingly, Sydney (female) – a saucy sexual health researcher, who likes men who are a bit 'different'.

I won't review the show, as I'm probably a bit biased in that IMO 1: most men shouldn't wear a dress – all the lumps and bumps are in the wrong places, and it can look a bit of a car crash – sorry, all you dress wearers . I myself do have a couple of dresses, but wear them as skirts, covering the top part (and all my lumps and bumps) with a polo shirt or sweater. 2: High heels, I don't fully understand why women wear them let alone men! . Poor Paul, walked like he'd ridden a horse all the way to central London – not a good look, so guys be aware.

For those that want to watch it's available in the UK (don't know if it can be viewed outside UK) until January 16th. Paul & Sydney are the first couple to appear, they then reappear at 9min:30sec, 12:00, 14:33 and 21:05 to 23:20 Link to show……….[url=https://flic.kr/p/2dQkMgg]

Agree on the awkwardness of dresses on guys, but there are some that can work, but often need tailoring because of proportions. Also have mixed feelings on heels, can look fabulous on ladies, but the danger of them! On the other hand, knew one lovely girl that would wear them all the time, and would think nothing of grabbing a 40 pound box in the warehouse and walking it out to the showroom. I'd never reach that level of comfort in them. I have seen some pictures of guys in heels that look surprisingly good, (some on here) but mostly not. Problem is, finding affordable stuff in my size to experiment is near impossible, and very limited choices.

Just watched the first few minutes of the programme.Right now, I have one dress and I don't consider it one of my fashion successes. Bumps and lack of bumps in wrong places sums it up in my mind too. When I was younger, I tried the "femme" look too and never succeeded. Paul appeared comfortable enough but no way was he going to be mistaken for a female. Early on, I came to the conclusion that very few guys can actually "pass". I just decided that it was easier not to try.I think this is a case of "to each their own" and the producers were never going to place him in a totally hostile situation either.Steve.

Those frilly prom like dresses, or those trendy business woman dresses might have the lumps and bumps, but getcha a plain old 'round the house jumper... they tend to lay a little flatter on the chest.

"Our task is not to destroy but to build; not to hate but to find a place of yielding; not to polarize but to discover the points of commonality so that we can work together. Learn this lesson, dear friends, it will serve you well"-Rebbe Zalman

I think there is a dichotomy here. There are those of us who see the issue discussed in these web pages as being centred around the notion that traditional male clothing conventions are far too restrictive and these should be expanded to give males more options. The idea that females should have absolute choice whereas males are confined to wearing only trousers is an inequality which should be addressed and other garments should be considered as options for male attire, and entirely masculine. This is NOT crossdressing - this is re-defining masculine clothing norms.

However, some men enjoy wearing women's clothes precisely because they are exclusively for women and signifiers of femininity. For them, this isn't about extending male clothing options; if anything, it is the opposite as there would cease to be any point in donning a dress if such garments were made specifically for men.

We need to be clear, as individuals, to which of these two camps we belong.

Stu wrote:I think there is a dichotomy here. There are those of us who see the issue discussed in these web pages as being centred around the notion that traditional male clothing conventions are far too restrictive and these should be expanded to give males more options. The idea that females should have absolute choice whereas males are confined to wearing only trousers is an inequality which should be addressed and other garments should be considered as options for male attire, and entirely masculine. This is NOT crossdressing - this is re-defining masculine clothing norms.

However, some men enjoy wearing women's clothes precisely because they are exclusively for women and signifiers of femininity. For them, this isn't about extending male clothing options; if anything, it is the opposite as there would cease to be any point in donning a dress if such garments were made specifically for men.

We need to be clear, as individuals, to which of these two camps we belong.

Thank you! I fall firmly in the first camp, and if I thought this site were primarily about the later, I simply wouldn't be here.

I'm always wary of how guys dressed out of the ordinary are portrayed in the media. This example doesn't sound too bad, but I'll leave that determination to those who saw it. It was likely done in part for the shock value and clickbait. Not sure how that works out for breaking down those restrictions long term, but I'll try to be an optimist here.

Just a reflection on the photo of the participants.Place them in a wholly "normal", scenario.The local pub and he makes an entrance in his chosen attire. Unlikely, but also assume that she is alone too. Perhaps a friend is a no show.They had both noticed each other, he may buy her a drink and they get chatting. They have a pleasant hour or so of coversation so he tries for a second meeting. Would she accept as a date? My heart goes yes but the head says not likely.Steve.

STEVIE wrote:Would she accept as a date? My heart goes yes but the head says not likely.

This is precisely the sort of thought experiment I enjoy working through, and I sadly suspect that the end-scenario is very much akin to the one Steve outlined. Even if everything else clicked perfectly, would it be enough to sway her ultimate decision? The rational and intellectual answer would be an affirmative; however, as has oft been posited here, this isn't a rational matter, it's an emotional one, and unless the woman is a very uncommon one, the emotion answer would highly likely be in the negative.

It has been suggested to me that the male dressed in some clothes designed for the female is just " Good for a laugh "...It is perhaps unfortunate that the male may feel happy one day; and that is why he wears female clothes , which make the lassies smile .......however the female may not consider that it is acceptable to have a male escort who dresses in this manner.....I like to feel my chosen style is acceptable as I try to steer as far as possible away from looking female [ What ever that is ....) , in my "Men in Skirts "...... attire

We must consider how much accuracy there was in that program on the Box...Sydney was wearing " her red dress baby, as you are going out tonight "If you look carefully at the couple , they are both past their sell by date..............

Perhaps this is reality, as we are expected to see the World outside our own closet.....The warning is that we should all take a second look at ourselves before going out on the street...

It has been suggested that Paul had " ridden to London on a horse ..." .....in his dress ...... Should we consider the meeting was a bit of a drag.....

Please remember that when one looks in the mirror , one's image is laterally reversed and the image is scientifically outside the mirror.......

Perhaps this entertainment is the modern equivelant of the romantic story of the pantomime drag queen meeting the fairy princess.

weeladdie18 wrote:If you look carefully at the couple , they are both past their sell by date.

Well, that's one of the more asinine comments I've read in quite a while. Where is it written that folks beyond their beautiful years don't have feelings and are ineligible for companionship? With a few exceptions, most of us in this community could be charitably called (incorrectly, I'll add), "past their sell by date". Just because somebody isn't in their 20s -- and has all the baggage that brings -- does not mean they're disposable.

Please remember that when one looks in the mirror , one's image is laterally reversed and the image is scientifically outside the mirror.

I routinely assert that if one is to perform objective analysis on a potential look to use photography to do it with. Mirrors frequently tell us what we'd like to see, not the way we really look. This is fine for shaving or brushing one's hair, but not for detailed study.

Perhaps this entertainment is the modern equivelant of the romantic story of the pantomime drag queen meeting the fairy princess.

No doubt the proposed matchup was done for humorous intent -- and that's very unfortunate. We're dealing with people here -- likely people with feelings -- and just because they don't look like what we expect -- because we, ourselves, have been very carefully conditioned -- does not invalidate their humanity. One of the things that needs to happen is for people to be more human around others; laughter has an important role in things: ridicule does not.

As someone said men can wear dresses - it just depends on the dress. If you buy something fitted then it ain't gonna fit unless you add a bra and padding. It is just going to sag sadly on your chest. If you get a draped dress then it can look great. An above the knee long-sleeved dress with opaque tights (and heels if you wish) can look great on a guy - sometimes I am that guy. But we still live in a society where it is probably more acceptable for a man to wear a dress as a woman than just be a guy in a dress. As for frilly dresses - not even women look good in these. Remember that women can look 'wrong' in some dresses and few women would ever contemplate wearing the sort of dress favoured by Grayson Perry.

rivegauche wrote:...we still live in a society where it is probably more acceptable for a man to wear a dress as a woman than just be a guy in a dress...

That's curiously true. At least, it seems there are more cross-dressers, transvestites, and MTF transsexuals than there are male skirt-wearers. You may not notice those others as they pass, but they certainly have a larger internet presence.

Here is one that I prepared earlier and I do not regard it as one of my best efforts. I will say that it was damnably comfortable during hot weather.I certainly never achieved a date in it but, truth be told, I never tried.Steve.

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.