Mythic Adventures

Tuesday, August 28, 2012

Just over a week ago, at Gen Con, we announced the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game hardcover book due to come out next August: Mythic Adventures. Since then, there has been a fury of speculation and excitement about this book, so I thought I would give a recap of what we’ve said so far about this new addition to the game.

What is mythic?

The mythic rules offer a new way to play Pathfinder. It uses all the rules that you are familiar with, but it adds a new layer to the game. Mythic adventurers are elevated above their non-mythic counterparts, gaining powers and abilities beyond their reach that allow them to take on tougher foes and more daunting challenges. A mythic character takes on the agents of deities, rushes headlong into the abyss, and strives to build a legend, all while facing off against a wide variety of foes, from common monsters to other mythic characters. If Elric, Fafhrd, Gray Mouser, Hercules, or King Arthur were created in Pathfinder, they would be mythic characters.

Is this a replacement for epic rules?

Mythic is not epic. You can use the mythic rules with 1st-level characters just as easily as you can with 20th-level characters. You can even use the mythic rules to continue to grow in power once your PCs reach 20th level, taking on some of the toughest adversaries in the game, from ancient dragons to demon lords. Meanwhile a low-level mythic character might take on monsters that you are already familiar with, at a level where non-mythic characters would face certain doom.

So, how does mythic work?

Each mythic character must select a mythic path, which defines some of the powers and abilities he gains, in addition to a few features gained by all mythic characters. As a character advances, his mythic tier might increase. Starting at 1st tier, a mythic character is quite a bit more resilient and can draw upon his mythic power to accomplish incredible deeds. Once he reaches 10th tier (the upper limit of mythic power), he is an unstoppable force, akin to a demigod in some respects.

Mythic tiers are not gained by accumulating experience points. Instead, a mythic character has to accomplish a specific number of deeds to achieve the next tier of mythic power. Using this system, your mythic tier is not tied to your character level. You still gain XP as normal, still gain levels as normal, but occasionally you might increase your mythic tier as well, adding a few new mythic abilities and powers to your character.

It is important to note that while mythic rules add to the game, they do not necessarily make the game more complex.

What are the mythic paths?

The rules currently include six paths for a mythic character to choose from. Each path offers a unique set of abilities to choose from, as well as some abilities that appear in more than one path. The paths you can choose from are as follows:

Archmage: Master of arcane magic, able to call upon his mythic power to cast extra spells, penetrate defenses, and even cast greater versions of existing spells.

Champion: Unequalled in his skill with weapons and styles of fighting. The champion can call upon his mythic power to make devastating attacks, quickly move across any battlefield, and strike many foes with a single swing.

Hierophant: In tune with the gods, be they deities or the spirits of the natural world, the hierophant is the master of divine magic. The hierophant can heal even the most deadly wounds, bring back allies from the dead, and wield the power of the gods.

Marshal: A leader of unparalleled vision, the marshal elevates those around him, granting powerful abilities and bonuses to his allies, even if they are not mythic themselves. Entire armies flock to his banner, and his close friends find his council invaluable.

Trickster: The master of many deceptions, the trickster can influence the world around him in both subtle ways (with a smile) and more direct ways (with a dagger in the back).

Warden: Few can withstand the sort of punishment that the warden takes regularly. No foe frightens this warrior, because he knows that no blow could possibly lay him low. The warden uses his resiliency to protect his allies, the people around him, and the lands he calls home.

What else will be in Mythic Adventures?

In short, everything you need to add mythic rules to your game. The book will contain the mythic paths, deeds, feats, spells, magic items, artifacts, monsters, and a short sample adventure to get you started. In addition, Mythic Adventures will include plenty of tips and advice for playing a mythic character and running a mythic campaign. It will also feature ways that you can add mythic rules to your existing campaign, even if it’s only for an adventure or two.

Mythic monsters?

Oh yes. There will be mythic monsters. This book will include a selection of monsters, from upgrades of existing beasts, such as the mythic minotaur and medusa, to entirely new creations. In addition, there will be a number of simple templates and rules to allow a GM to make any monster mythic. There are also going to be a number of other toys to go in the GMs toolbox to help make a game that can challenge such powerful characters.

Can I have it NOW?

Not quite yet. Mythic Adventures will be released at Gen Con 2013, but you’ll get a chance to play with the rules well before that. We will be releasing a select portion of the rules set, to give you a chance to play with the rules, tell us what works and what needs work. This playtest will hopefully get underway by the end of September, but we will make sure to give you a firm date as soon as we have one. Until then, I want to leave you with this one little mythic rule for you to chew on.

Amazing Initiative (Ex): At 2nd tier, a mythic character gains a +20 mythic bonus on his initiative checks. In addition, he can spend one use of his mythic power each round to take an additional turn, treating his initiative for this second turn as his initiative roll without the +20 mythic bonus. Using this ability is a free action that must be decided at the end of his first action during the round.

I'm hoping they add in abilities to greatly increase your lifting capabilities and other strength related abilites that don't necessarily depend on combat. These kind of abilities only exist for magic users, so far.

That's weird... all indications are that their will be very little modifier bloat... like the only 2 they have made clear is the action point esque mythic points (which they intend to give many other uses that don't revolve around bonus numbers such as casting mythic spells (which really are just different and more powerful versions of our normal spells such as magic missile ignoring shield spells and doing 2d6 damage per missile or something like that)) and the +20 initiative bonus system which is really just a way for mythic characters and creatures to "always" be first against non-mythic characters and creatures.

In fact a lot of what they have indicated is that this is designed to actually make certain things easier and to drop many exceptions within the rules system.

The primary example of this is Precision which makes your full base attack something like +15/+15/+10. But keep in mind that supposedly Precision will be able be taken multiple times for +15/+15/+15 or eventually maybe a +20/+20/+20/+20 BAB. This is just an example of what they have previewed.

To my understanding, if you have 15/10/5 and have Precision 10, then you end up 15/15/15 for your attack. If you have 15/10/5 and Precision 15, you still only get 15/15/15 for your attack. Precision removes penalties, it doesn't add bonuses.

Creatures with maxed Precision most definitely will be very dangerous, but that's the point. They are MYTHIC monsters. That same monster could also sprint across the battlemap and Pounce the Parties fighter, spend a Mythic Point, and go again on his non-Mythic Initiative score.

Wrath of the Righteous is set to come out in the fall of next year along with the release of the Mythic Adventures rule book. Wrath of the Righteous is an AP set in the Worldwound that will be written using the Mythic Rules.

As for the level cap, I'd be cautious about that. Each Mythic Tier, in theory, will be equivalent in power, to that of a level gained. However, the Mythic Tiers won't give static bonuses, like a level does.

For instance, a 5th level fighter with 5 Mythic Tiers is supposed to be equal in power to that of a 10th level Fighter. However, based off what I've read, the reality is that the 10th level fighter will crush that Mythic Fighter.

Why? Because that Mythic Fighter will have the BAB, HP, AC Saves etc of a 5th level creature. So the Fighter will be attacking with approximately, a +10 bonus, while that 10th level Fighter will have anywhere from +15 to +20 on his attack bonus.

That's why they advise that you only have 1 Mythic Tier for every 2 character levles/HD.

For instance, a 5th level fighter with 5 Mythic Tiers is supposed to be equal in power to that of a 10th level Fighter. However, based off what I've read, the reality is that the 10th level fighter will crush that Mythic Fighter.

I do not think a 5th level fighter with 5 tiers will be possible.

I think you can have 1 tier per 2 levels you have max. So at level 5 you can only be tier 2.

Not Test of the Starstone. Even with Mythic Rules I don't think Paizo intends to write a Test of the Starstone Module as the test has been hinted at to be quite personalized for the the person or people taking the test. It's something that a GM would have to write up for his group.

THAT BEING SAID...

Mythic rules would be quite useful in writing that exact adventure or others like it.

The first mythic adventure is Wrath of the Righteous which is about the Worldwound and will revolve around the PCs slaying a lot of demons and maybe a Demon Lord for kicks and giggles.

I wonder how mythic tiers will interact with level drain type effects? Since if you have a lvl 4 character with 2 mythic tiers fighting an enemy spellcaster with access to enervation is a real possibility, could this spell be instant death on good roll?

This is the release that I am awaiting the most out of all previous releases. I've always been a fan of the concept behind epic, but it just didn't work in 3.5. Knowing the quality of the Pathfinder books, this could be exactly what I've been waiting for all these years.

This is the release that I am awaiting the most out of all previous releases. I've always been a fan of the concept behind epic, but it just didn't work in 3.5. Knowing the quality of the Pathfinder books, this could be exactly what I've been waiting for all these years.

Right on bro, I'm right there with you. So excited!

One of the things I'm looking forward to most is checking out mythic monsters. I hope there's a lot of ways to customize them i.e lots of mythic simple templates, or maybe full blown mythic monster paths!

Asmodeus is a true deity, he won't be stated up. Only demi-gods or beings of similar power will have stats from Mythic Rules.

Paizo refuses to stat up deities because that implies they can be killed. Their policy is "Gods win" and that's that. If you're hoping Paizo will publish diety stats one day, don't hold your breath, because it's not going to happen.

It would be nice to at least see stats on avatars for gods. I agree that deities themselves shouldn't have a stat block, But avatars would be a nice half-way point. Probably won't happen, short of a third party book, but still. Would be nice.

And I mean avatars with CRs in the mid 20s at least. I always hated seeing an avatars stat block and it only being like, CR 15.

You have to understand, the Divine Pantheon doesn't work the same way it does in the Forgotten Realms, and Paizo doesn't want to go the same way. Giving out stats for an Avatar of a God will only encourage people to try and kill a God. If an Avatar has only 25% of a Gods power, then you can extrapolate what 100% is from the Avatars stats.

James Jacobs and Paizo has stated on numerous occasions they will never release the stats for the Gods in any way, shape, or form. They simply don't want to take that path at all.

I don't know if giving Gods stats is a great idea. I've always just thought that should be up to the DM. If they want to take something like the First Blade, bump up it's HD, and give it many mythic levels, I couldn't find it too unreasonable if they wanted that to be their deity's stats.

Demigods are stated to be in the CR 25 - 35 range. Any God you want to stat up (one that is a true deity not a demigod) would need to be above that in power.

Personally, if I were to even think of stating up a God, I'd start in the CR 45 range and go up from there.

Remember, the Herald's of the Gods are just that, Herald's and are only CR 15. Bumping them up a few HD and giving Mythic Tiers wouldn't cut it for a Deity.

For a comparison, here is Achaekek, The Mantis God who was given stats in Curse of the Crimson Throne. Achaekek is not actually part of the Adventure Path though, so no need to worry about spoilers.

Achaekek is the assassin of the Gods. He is designed to be less powerful than a true Deity, but more powerful than a Demigod. Any creature that aspires to become a God, must first get through Achaekek. At CR 30, he's on the mid-high end of the Demigod range of power. He'd be able to take out most Demigods, Demon Lords, Archdevils, Daemon Lords, Eldest, Empyreal Lords, Great Old Ones etc.

This guy doesn't even have any Mythic Tiers either. I imagine he will be updated for Pathfinder though, with the release of Mythic Rules. I doubt they'd release the stats of every Demigod-level creature all at once, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them released in Blogs or through other methods.

[Edit] Also, if I recall, Achaekek isn't even entirely correct in the above link. I believe he had an ability that allowed him to keep attacking as long as he keeps hitting, but each successive attack comes at a -2 stacking penalty.

Deity: A deity doesn't have a stat block because they can't be killed by mortals and things that need stat blocks to do stuff. Deities grant their worshipers 5 domain choices.

Demigod: This is a less powerful god; it has a stat block (generally from about CR 26 to 36 or thereabouts), and can be killed by mortals. Demigods generally offer 5 domain choices.

Planar Ruler: This category includes demon lords, the horsemen of the apocalypse, arch devils, elemental lords, empyrial lords, and the like. These creatures are generally as powerful as demigods (CR 26–36), but only grant their worshipers 4 domain choices.

EDIT: There's actaully a 4th category. The Great Old Ones/Outer Gods like Yog-Sothoth and Azathoth do exist in Golarion, but they don't generally care about their worshipers. Those who worship them follow the Old Cults and they get access to the domains of Chaos, Destruction, Madness, Rune, and Void, IIRC; their domain choices don't change depending on which specific creature they worship since clerics of the Old Cults have more in common with clerics who don't worship deities than those who do. BUT! This category's a weird one and sort of exists outside of the Deity/Demigod/Planar Ruler triad, so it usually goes uncommented upon.

Also, things to keep in mind is just exactly how powerful PCs really are. A band of 4 PCs at 20th level could pretty easily take out the Terrasque with some planning and preparation.

A band of 4 20th level 10th Tier Mythic PCs could probably take a CR 36 Demigod fairly easily with proper planning and preparation.

Personally, I get the feeling that the Wrath of the Righteous AP will have 16th level PCs with 8 Mythic Tiers vs a CR 26 - 30 Demigod. The PCs 'should' be about CR 24 themselves, so they'll be able to do it, but it'll be a hell of a fight for them.

I don't need stats for Gods to GM them. The expression of a God's power is in three forms.

1. The actions taken by his/her servants, mortal or outsider.

2. Direct actions by the Gods themselves which translates to "GM's Fiat."

3. Subtle(or not so subtle) bonuses or penalties given to mortals in response to actions which happen to be noticed. Such as descreation or honoring a shrine to a god that's important enough to be notice but does not merit any direct action. For example a shrine of Belisarda gives a minor boon to Ellori who honor it, but unleashes a bolt of lightning to those Ellori who choose to honor the Gods of Man if they dare profane the place with their presence. (she still holds a grudge for that little thing about the Gods of Man consuming all of the Ellori deities but herself)

Gods rise and fall through story events in which epic PC's can be factor in. But not because you take away their last hit point with a magic missle spell. When Helm strikes Mystra with his sword, I don't calculate the amount of damage he did, I just declare her dead with whatever spectacular collateral damage that causes. PC's may influence the outcome of the fight or prevent it altogether, but that's a storied outcome, not the format of a war game.

Personally, I get the feeling that the Wrath of the Righteous AP will have 16th level PCs with 8 Mythic Tiers vs a CR 26 - 30 Demigod. The PCs 'should' be about CR 24 themselves, so they'll be able to do it, but it'll be a hell of a fight for them.

James has actually said that it's his hope to have the full AP go from 1 to 20th level with 10 Mythic Tiers. I think he said this in his Questions Thread here.

I don't need stats for Gods to GM them. The expression of a God's power is in three forms.

1. The actions taken by his/her servants, mortal or outsider.

2. Direct actions by the Gods themselves which translates to "GM's Fiat."

3. Subtle(or not so subtle) bonuses or penalties given to mortals in response to actions which happen to be noticed. Such as descreation or honoring a shrine to a god that's important enough to be notice but does not merit any direct action. For example a shrine of Belisarda gives a minor boon to Ellori who honor it, but unleashes a bolt of lightning to those Ellori who choose to honor the Gods of Man if they dare profane the place with their presence. (she still holds a grudge for that little thing about the Gods of Man consuming all of the Ellori deities but herself)

Gods rise and fall through story events in which epic PC's can be factor in. But not because you take away their last hit point with a magic missle spell. When Helm strikes Mystra with his sword, I don't calculate the amount of damage he did, I just declare her dead with whatever spectacular collateral damage that causes. PC's may influence the outcome of the fight or prevent it altogether, but that's a storied outcome, not the format of a war game.

I don't need stats for Gods to GM them. The expression of a God's power is in three forms.

But, it would still be fun to look at.

Init He goes first; Senses all; Perception He sees you

DEFENSE
AC You don't hit him
hp More than you'll ever whittle away, even if you could hit him
Auto-Save vs Mortals
OFFENSE
Speed: Damn Fast
Melee: He kills you
Ranged: He kills you from across the room
Special Attacks: Lots of them
STATISTICS
Str High, Dex High, Con High, Int High, Wis High, Cha High
Base Atk His attack succeeds; CMB He gets you; CMD You don't get him
Feats: Most of them
Skills: Most of them Auto-Succeed
SQ: Lots of them
Combat Gear: Pretty much anything he wants

I don't need stats for Gods to GM them. The expression of a God's power is in three forms.

But, it would still be fun to look at.

Init He goes first; Senses all; Perception He sees you

DEFENSE
AC You don't hit him
hp More than you'll ever whittle away, even if you could hit him
Auto-Save vs Mortals
OFFENSE
Speed: Damn Fast
Melee: He kills you
Ranged: He kills you from across the room
Special Attacks: Lots of them
STATISTICS
Str High, Dex High, Con High, Int High, Wis High, Cha High
Base Atk His attack succeeds; CMB He gets you; CMD You don't get him
Feats: Most of them
Skills: Most of them Auto-Succeed
SQ: Lots of them
Combat Gear: Pretty much anything he wants