Posted
by
timothy
on Thursday October 29, 2009 @01:48PM
from the little-people-in-fishbowls dept.

binarybum writes "Often forgotten, but the independent open source spirit lives strong in the once Mozilla project — now SeaMonkey. Version 2.0 is finally out and rivals Firefox with similar features but integrated email with a small footprint."
The Register has a short piece on the 2.0 release, which mentions that SeaMonkey is now based on Firefox 3.5.4. Stephen Shankland lists some of the features in a handy bullet-point style, too. I'm using the new release right now; it's crashed once — but only once — in several hours of use.

The way I see it, Nvu was a trademarked fork of [Mozilla|SeaMonkey] Composer: it's been designed in a way that made it incompatible with the Mozilla trunk, probably on purpose. The KompoZer project aims to backport most of the Nvu code to the Mozilla codebase — hence the upcoming merge with SeaMonkey.

KompoZer will remain a standalone app: it will be built on SeaMonkey 2.1, and SeaMonkey Composer should have most of KompoZer's features and bug-fixes.

As a ex-professional web developer, I have to say: You're doin' it wrong!

HTML has nothing, I repeat, NOTHING to do with looks. If you so much as THINK about looks while writing HTML, you completely and utterly fail. ^^(Yeah. Really.:)

CSS is for the looks. HTML is about structuring your code, by adding markup that explains what it is you have there. So software can make sense out of it. RDF or other ontologic languages would be an extension of that idea.

SeaMonkey Composer is the best way to make WYSIWYG, What You See Is What You Get, HTML files.

From what I read, no one even merged the Nvu code improvements back into the Composer source tree, much less the improvements to Nvu that now form KompoZer [kompozer.net]. Besides, there are other up-to-date and free WYSIWYG editors for HTML. Do SeaMonkey Composer for example even support modern HTML standards and cross-browser validation?

1. install adobe flash player2. browse the web with any browser, especially visit sites with flash content. For extra daring attempts, open multiple tabs with flash content at the same time.3. the crashes!!!

That being said youtube doesn't normally cause crashes for me, so it is probably shitty flash applications from shitty websites.

My wife leaves Firefox open on Vista with 50+ tabs open, some with flash & some with pdfs, for weeks on end. It actually rarely crashes, much to my amazement. Usually after a few weeks it starts acting a little weird, I close a few tabs, shut down Firefox & re-open (it's set to keep all the tabs) and it takes a couple of minutes for all the tabs to load. Then it's good for another few weeks.

I've had Chrome, Firefox, and IE all crash. I don't recall Opera crashing but I didn't use it for very long. However, none of the above crash within a few hours of normal use. "Normal" being fewer than 10 tabs and the only flash-heavy site being youtube.

Firefox 3.0 seems very stable on my WinXP system. I can have it open for day-after-day and not encounter problems. The only time I restart is when the memory usage grows above 300,000 K (either real or virtual/HDD memory).

I've been using the betas at work as well (layout, etc, who moved my cheese, git off my lawn) and the only thing that ever crashed any of the betas (fixed now) for me was navigating away from a site with a java applet. Of course, this is my work computer, so it's not like I went to any weird websites or anything.

Even giving the benefit of the doubt and calling it 8 hours, that's still once a (working) day, or 5 times a (working) week. Still not acceptable.

Of course, extrapolating a statistic out of such a small sample size (2 or even 8 hours) is somewhat premature. That may have been the only crash in 10,000 hours, just so happens it was at the beginning. Or it normally would crash 5,000 times in a year, and he just went to "safe" sites. Neither extreme seems likely, but merely possible given the low sample siz

Me too. I like the way seamonkey handles tabs, that's mostly why I use it. I use it for most of my browsing, and was long suffering with an obsolete rendering engine. I have not been able to figure out how to mimic seamonkey's tabs behavior on firefox. Is it possible to get the seamonkey tabs behavior on firefox (with existing settings or add-ons)?
-Andy

In seamonkey, when I have a group of tabs open, and I invoke "Bookmarks:Bookmark This Group of Tabs" it saves a bookmark list entry so that when I select it, it opens the tabs immediately. This seems to be the behavior a sensible user would want.

In firefox, when when I have a group of tabs open, and I invoke "Bookmarks:Bookmark All Tabs..." it saves a bookmark list entry so that when I select it, a menu rolls down with links to the individual tabs, and then at the bottom, there

Speaking of bookmarks, when I installed SM 2.0, it of course used the bookmarks from the previous SM version. But what I'd like to do is compare it with firefox, which I've been using a lot and thus have a big pile of bookmarks.

So is there any way now that I can tell SM to load FF's bookmarks, without throwing away all my old SM bookmarks? I poked around in the bookmarks stuff a bit, but couldn't find it. I suppose I could trash my SM bookmarks and SM entirely, and do a clean install, but then I'd lose m

Seems to be the same. The new-tab button is still in its fixed position on the left-hand side.

The interface looks the same, except for a few differences- The classic theme button icons look more firefox-like and less netscape 3-like (bad thing, in my books). A theme can solve that.- There is now an rss icon w/ drop-down list on the right hand side of the address bar. So far its been unobtrusive.- The url-guessing algorithm has been changed; it's now supposed to guess based on URL and page title. Not sure ho

The Javascript is much faster over the 1.x series. For instance, loading slashdot.org no longer brings up the dialog 'the javascript on this page is too convoluted and is taking too long. we're going to make you click okay just for the hell of it'.

Hopefully it doesn't crash as much as Seamonkey 1.x. I never figured out what was causing the crashes, possibly the gcc version I was using or maybe Flash. In any case, I will gladly make Seamonkey my backup browser to Chrome (goodbye, Firefox, I won't miss yo

On linux platforms it is unstable because Flash and Pulse Audio do no play well. Firefox would be doing everyone a favor if they allowed users to block flash from sites the same way you can block images from specific servers.

I've used Seamonkey as my default browser for a long time now, mainly because I like the user interface better. Seamonkey 2.0 now uses Firefox's printing system, though, and this is one of the main things I don't like about Firefox. I use lpr for printing, not cups, and I liked the fact that earlier versions of Seamonkey (and "Mozilla" before it) remembered any changes I made to the "lpr command" in the print dialog. Firefox uses gtk-print, which reverts back to the default lpr command every time you click print, even in the same session. I've reported this as a bug in the Seamonkey bugzilla.

Maybe there is a global setting for Gnome that allows you to set the default print command. I agree that this is not acceptable interface design. State is a very useful concept. Especially for printing setup.

"Web-browser, advanced e-mail, newsgroup and feed client, IRC chat, and HTML editing made simple -- all your Internet needs in one application"... for what reason do we need this all in one single application?

I've been running the Betas & RCs of SM 2.0 for the last couple of months on Windows 7 x64, Ubuntu 9.04 & Windows XP SP3, and while I got regular crashes on closing the browser if I'd been using Flash (Seems to be fixed in the final so far) I didn't have any non-Flash related crashes.

I don't know why Timothy felt the need to make the comment other than to put a negative spin on the release;

When it asks you to import profiles, it will ONLY work if you select a profile that comes with Seamonkey i.e. default. This is not intuitive and counter to all previous upgrades.

You have to manual crate a new profile with the profile name you want, and then use the command line to import that ONE profile.

c:\%APPATH%\mozilla\seamonkey -P -migration

The profile name is case sensitive and MUST be in dbl quotes.

This was a pain in the ass for people like me that have a profile for each person in their home. It's LAZY DEVELOPMENT and the should be ashamed of themselves.

I know, you're thinking 'So you have to got o the command line, so what?" well that's a deal killer for a lot of people. There is NO GOOD REASON why this is a manual process.The documentation that explains this comes across as hubris and with a too damn bad attitude. People want to know why OS hasn't defeated MS? it's because of shit like this, I actually considered loading outlook.

It works if you reduce to one profile only before upgrading from Seamonkey 1.1.x. The profile does not need to be "default", mine was "default2". After upgrade, you will have a migrated copy of the profile in the new location, parallel to where Firefox and Thunderbird keep profiles. If the old profile is taking up disk space you want, you can delete it.
There are some open bugs on the lamentable multiple profile migration situation.

Well, I certainly remember it well and fire it up from time to time. It was what I used before Firefox and Thunderbird came along. Now that 2.0 has gone gold, hopefully some new users will find it and be intrigued.

As we (at PortableApps.com) do with Firefox, Thunderbird and Sunbird, we've packaged it as a portable app so you can use it on your flash drive/portable hard drive or try it out without installing it locally. 10 languages are available.

Been using it since way back around M8, when it was still the Mozilla Suite. Thanks to the Seamonkey crew for keeping it alive. Firefox hasn't been faster in a long time, and the menus and configurability of Seamonkey offer far more configuration options. I deny cookies as my default, and allowing session cookies for a given site is a PITA on Firefox that requires diving through the preferences. In Seamonkey, it's right there in a menu, takes under a second. At the risk of starting a flamewar, Firefox remin

It still has the Book of Mozilla (I think it's part of Gecko, as Firefox has it too), but about:kitchensink hasn't been included for a long time. You can install an extension to have that back, though! Here: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/seamonkey/addon/742 [mozilla.org]

The single most annoying misfeature to me with Seamonkey is that someone thought that editing pages in the web browser was such a heavily used feature that it deserved to be bound to a command key. Yeaaaah, no. Many times I have hit that stupid command-E by accident and had to interrupt my concentration to close it.

I'm providing these instructions for those of you who agree that this is not only a pointless feature, but worse than pointless because it's annoying. So open up a Terminal window and get cracki

I have been using Seamonkey since the beginning of September(the alpha) updating it nightly and I can tell you this browser is the sh!t. I have had only 6 crashes since I started using it. All six times I had over 20 tabs open and 5 out of the six times I was able to fully recover right back to where I was before the crash.(so in essence I only had 1 complete crash) The only problem I have with the browser is some fonts (Tahoma in my case) look jagged when set in an H1 or H2 tag. But generally this browser

Seriously dude, if you think seamonkey is "small" then send me some of what you've been smoking (likewise for firefox). These browsers are some of the largest programs on Linux. It is difficult to even get firefox started (using "ulimit -Sv") in less than 100MB of memory (seamonkey presumably requires more). I routinely run firefox/seamonkey sessions that range from 300-800 MB (lots of windows/tabs). (And limiting the amount of memory is also likely to produce inelegant terminations or outright core dum

1) You can't move the mailbox list to the right side. (I know, that's "standard" for GUI mail programs nowadays, but I hate that interface.. the other two choices available aren't any more usable, IMHO.)2) When I bring up the Preferences, the menubar except for the Apple menu & app name went away -- not disabled, went away. What the heck?3) I can't change the toolbar style (icons, icons & text, text only) via normal means -- control-click in the toolbar, nor go into Customiz

I do. I like its interface much better than FireFox. Crazy, I know.
Unfortunately many websites run compatibility checks and freak out if your browser isn't FireFox, Safari, or IE.
My main preference of all stupid things is that I have always hated Firefox's search bar. Too many years of searching via SeaMonkey's address bar I guess.

I hate the search bar in Firefox too, so I deleted it and set up keyword searches for the half-dozen search engines I use regularly. (If you're not familiar with this FF function, right-click on any search box and select "add a keyword for this search."

For example, "g" is my google keyword. To google something, I typeg something

I hate the search bar in Firefox too, so I deleted it and set up keyword searches for the half-dozen search engines I use regularly. (If you're not familiar with this FF function, right-click on any search box and select "add a keyword for this search."

User Agent switcher will fix that problem for you.I keep it around myself, and have found it is MUCH easier to convert older folks to SeaMonkey than to Firefox, as they remember the old Netscape days and prefer its layout. I'll admit I prefer it for certain jobs, such as it is the browser I use for secure transactions. I just like the "feel" of SeaMonkey better than Firefox, which sometimes feels kinda dumbed down to me.

Of course it is the excellent Firefox extensions library that keeps me coming back to FF. Oh curse you and your large library of extensions goodness!

I'm also working from memory, but I think that Gecko is the engine. Firefox used to be the engineering test-bed browser component for the Mozilla suite, but end users decided they liked the light and fast standalone browser.

I'm also working from memory, but I think that Gecko is the engine. Firefox used to be the engineering test-bed browser component for the Mozilla suite, but end users decided they liked the light and fast standalone browser.

CLOSE, but Phoenix (Firefox's original branding) was a project started to deliberately slim down the browser and focus on it exclusively rather than worrying about other functions like email and HTML editing - ie, it was intended to be an end-user product from it's inception rather than a rendering engine testbed (as the Gecko rendering engine and the Mozilla suite predated Phoenix by quite a bit).

No, FF was a project started by two guys who wanted a lightweight browser based on Gecko. Unlike the other projects with the same thing in mind (epiphany, k-meleon, galleon, etc) it became very popular, and became the official browser.

Wow... I knew where this was headed, and yet I still couldn't believe it. An open source program that has absolutely nothing to do with Microsoft crashes, and guess what, it's all MS's fault.

There's plenty of legitimate gripes with Microsoft. Blame them for a secretive culture, monopolistic practices, failure to follow standards, bugs, etc etc etc. But don't blame them for the failings of FOSS software. Next thing you know, MS will be the reason GNU/Hurd hasn't taken over.

For older machines I would suggest Kmeleon [sourceforge.net] if you are low on RAM, and Kmeleon CCF ME [blogspot.com] if you have over 128Mb. Both are built on the Gecko engine and VERY fast, but CCF ME has built in ABP and since it is a standalone also makes an excellent flash drive browser, but if you are below 128Mb I've found the memory footprint of stock Kmeleon can't be beat. And both can be run on Win95 on up according to the FAQ [sourceforge.net].

It's never been advertised as a lightweight alternative to Firefox. In fact it's the exact opposite - it's a browser suite for those that prefer the everything-and-the-kitchen-sink model. When Firefox (or Phoenix I think it was originally called) spun off from Mozilla, the original suite began a steady decline into obscurity. The bastardization that was Firefox focused on stripping away many of the useful features under the premise of trying to build a "lighter" browser (I think they failed, Firefox is s

Learn your history - Firefox was supposed to be the lightweight alternative to the Mozilla Suite. Seamonkey is the continuation of the Mozilla Suite under a different name.

So, Firefox was the lightweight alternative to Seamonkey.

Except, Firefox started seriously competing with IE, started getting bloat, and for some time now has been a more heavyweight program than Seamonkey. All this despite the fact that Firefox only offers web browsing, while Seamonkey offers Web, News, Email, IRC, and HTML Editing.

From a technical point of view the biggest difference between FF and Seamonkey (AKA Mozilla Suite) is the XUL interfache of firefox.

With a litle bit of XML and Javascript knowledge it is possible to completely redesign firefoxe's user interface. To some extent, this is what add-ons do. In Seamonkey the application wold need to be recompiled for changes (except for some hooks in the menu AFAIR).

This is the main Reason IMHO why FF feels so bloated today. FF itself is still quiet lightweight. But all those ext

While Iuse Firefox 99.99% of the time, I still use SeaMonkey for accessing sites that may be less 'safe'. That way I KNOW that my cookies, passwords and other info is protected, and I can quickly erase the cache and history of me ever visiting these unsafe sites.