Its been interesting, because I can't see any sort of pattern to her naps. Yesterday, I set out to exhaust her, in the hopes of creating a schedule (pm nap, and bed at 9). We had an early morning playdate that lasted until noon. I tried to put her down from noon to 3 and then gave up and at 5 we went to the park to meet our friends. She fell asleep on the way there, but I woke her up (I literally had to put her in a swing and swing her before she woke up), thinking that she'd run around and then fall asleep early for the evening and be done. But no. She was exhausted when we left the park at 8, but didn't fall asleep until 10 (partly because she got a second wind when she got to hang out with our neighbors and a third wind when Daddy came home and a fourth wind when we ate dinner etc) and that was only with some firm reiteration of her not being allowed to leave her room. 14 hours without a nap - that was way too much for me

I feel like the toilet option might be what derails us - she is constantly asking to pee or poop just as she is falling asleep, and then we read her books and she gets a second wind. But I don't feel like her toileting is reliable enough for me to not let her use it if she wants to, if that makes sense.

Today I decided to follow LB's advice and do quiet time in the playroom, instead of trying to make her nap. We read books for 90 minutes and now she is out cold. I love the idea of just trying to get them down for 40 minutes and then moving on. Spending a few hours nursing and trying to get her to nap was just so tiring.

We are going to try having an early dinner at 5 and hitting the park again from 6 to 8 and hoping that we can get her to sleep by 9. Because these late night bedtimes are the worst. I am so exhausted by 10, but I stay up for another hour or so, just for my adult time, but I can't do anything because I am completely mentally fried.

Any advice? Am I overexhausting her? Am I too unscheduled? I am trying really hard to stick to a schedule and it just doesn't seem to work for us. The only regularity we have is that she wakes between 7:30 and 8:30 but everything else seems up for grabs.

_________________My oven is bigger on the inside, and it produces lots of wibbly wobbly, cake wakey... stuff. - The PoopieB.

This may not be helpful at all, but over the past week or so I've been finding that if I can get Sven to cry, he falls asleep incredibly easily. It sounds horribly mean, but what I mean is that I think maybe he needs that emotional release some days before he can settle enough to fall asleep. If he wants to keep running circles around the bedroom instead of laying down, I'll scoop him up and lay down with him, holding him in place gently but firmly. He'll get frustrated and maybe cry for 20 seconds to a minute or two, then just stop crying, space out, and fall asleep. I feel a little weird about it, but he's safe, I'm with him, and it sure beats going through the hour+ motions of him being exhausted but resisting.

Weird! Mandycoot, that's exactly the same for Zeph. If I can't get him down, and I know he's tired, I let him crawl off the bed, and when he gets to the closed door, he starts crying. He always comes right back up to the bed, and then I can get him to sleep. I also think it has to do with the emotional release, and they can finally relax enough to sleep. And also the act of setting a boundary. When I let him walk to the door, he sees that I'm not letting him go back out to play, so he seems to accept that and goes to sleep.

Tofulish, on the weeknights I work until 1030p and when I get home, I usually re-settle Zeph, which can take until a bit after 11 (with travel time home factored in). Those days are so hard, because I'm totally beat, but I still want that little bit of time to myself before going to sleep, waking up, spending all day with the kids, and then back to work. Rinse, repeat, etc. I totally understand wanting to use that bit of time, but being too fried. I feel like I haven't had a chance to do any of my own projects/hobbies/etc either. I really hope you can figure out a way to get her down early. I wonder if the evening park adventures actually wind her up? I find physical activity just before bedtime always pushes bedtime later for us. I can't remember if you said before, but have you tried going from maybe 3-5, then dinner at 6, wind-down, and a non-negotiable bedtime at 7:30? Disregard if you've already tried!

_________________when you realise how perfect everything is, you will tilt you head back and laugh at the sky. -buddha

We have that asking to potty problem too. Oh crepe, potty training offers two ideas: starting the bedtime routine earlier or firm limits. I loathe refusing the potty, but she was asking 4 plus times to go after lights were out and it was ridiculous. So now she gets 3 chances and if she asks again I say hold it till morning or go in your diaper. That has nipped it and she hasn't been doing it for the past few nights. (Of course if she pooped or had a real emergency I wouldn't wait until morning, it's just what I say.)

We have been doing really well with nap from 3 to 5, then dinner at 5 and to the park from 6 to 8. But today, my husband took her to dinner to give me a chance to clean up a bit, and they had an awesome dinner, but he couldn't resist her begging for a cupcake. And then bedtime went from 8 to 11:30 and I am feeling a bit murderous. She was at that tired but not able to sleep stage, so she was bitey and unhappy and it was just a caramelcluster.

And maybe it wasn't the cupcake, but I know someone who is going to be back at the park tomorrow from 6 to 8 if it kills me tomorrow!

ETA: Butternut, thanks for the advice on potty. Now after she asks 3 times, then her option is to use the potty in the bedroom, which is much less exciting than the toilet, where we sit and read to her.

_________________My oven is bigger on the inside, and it produces lots of wibbly wobbly, cake wakey... stuff. - The PoopieB.

Miles is one of those criers before napping. He doesn't want to nap anymore. He knows when i'm going to change his diaper after noon that it's nap time. He cries and yells..NO NO NO!!! I tell him what we will do when he wakes up and leave the room while he is crying. He is usually out less then 3 minutes later. I think some kids definitely need that release.

T'lish. If Leela doesn't nap I wouldn't go out anywhere if I were you. I have to do that with Miles on his napless days because him falling asleep in the car around 5 ish is not good, for us. We stay home and play out in the yard or walk to the park near us. I sometimes will even let him watch something on TV. Have a much earlier dinner so he doesn't fall asleep at the table, which is adorable BTW. Then he will go to bed by 7-7:30.

I need to revisit the nap dilemma ideas, because our schedule really isn't working, and with it getting dark out so early, its hard to find things to do to keep her up.

I keep trying to get her to go down at 1, and she is up until 4 or 5 and then crashes for 2 to 3 hours and then is up until 11. Today I kept her up all the way until 8 (no nap) and am hoping that she is going to get a good night of sleep.

I wish there was a switch to put her into napville!

_________________My oven is bigger on the inside, and it produces lots of wibbly wobbly, cake wakey... stuff. - The PoopieB.

A new dilemma - she woke up at 5:30, spent 2 hours resisting sleep by begging to be on the toilet, and then had an hourlong nap, waking at 8:30 am. She resisted her nap, so I took her to the playground (noob error perhaps) and sadly she passed out cold at 5pm. So now the question is is she down for the night or will she wake up at 7, wellrested and ready to party until 2.... Grrr argh.

_________________My oven is bigger on the inside, and it produces lots of wibbly wobbly, cake wakey... stuff. - The PoopieB.

I think I've mentioned this before but in our case if Miles resists his nap we don't go anywhere in a car. We stay and play outside our house, at the park down the street, etc. I do whatever to keep him awake til at least 7:00. Its hard but I would go mental if he took a nap at 5 woke up at 7 and then partied til 2. Completely mental! :)

I would try just skipping her naps for 2 or 3 days and see what happens. Reno stopped before she was 2 and was fine with it. She was tired earlier, we ate earlier and it actually worked out better. There are days now I don't even bother putting Miles down for a nap because I know we aren't going anywhere in the evening and it means he will go to bed earlier.

Go to Ariann's house all day. Have the toddlers run themselves ragged at the playground, going out to eat sushi and then in the house bouncing on the bed. Avoid GSP traffic by staying over and having dinner with Ariann and her family (which was delicious by the way). Baby falls asleep in minutes in the car and you have a peaceful night of wine and pie.

We had the best day! Thanks Ariann and Malka!

ETA: As an update on my Monday post, yesterday she napped for 30 minutes. From 5 to 5:30pm when we got home. And didn't go to sleep until midnight. It was a nightmare.

_________________My oven is bigger on the inside, and it produces lots of wibbly wobbly, cake wakey... stuff. - The PoopieB.

We had a weird day yesterday where V refused to nap, resisted it even during our nap-inducing stroller walk, then when I told her to lie down in her bed actually fell asleep from 3pm. I tried to wake her up at 5pm and she basically ignored me. She was up for the morning around 5am, which actually wasn't THAT bad considering my husband needed to leave for work at 6am (and dropped her off at preschool on the way). And then she napped easily after preschool, so I guess we're back to normal now (knock on wood). Usually Monday is kind of a disaster after the weekend, but I was starting to worry that maybe she was outgrowing naps. I wouldn't mind if she weren't such a bear all day when she didn't sleep.

Still lots of tantrums this afternoon, though, after she woke up from a ~1hr nap. Sigh.

i got no advice, just cyber hugs. changing sleep patterns are the worst. zaf is losing her old pattern atm and it is sometimes hard to deal with. lucky for me though, if she hasn't slept before 3, i can actually keep her awake til 7pm bedtime with things she likes, like film clips and dried fruit treats and books. elijah was way worse. it sounds like he was like l is... except, if he avoided naps until late, we had the bonus joy of him having night terrors due to having too long of a day :/ !!! and any napping at all past 2pm helped him stay up til midnight guaranteed. all i can offer is, that this phase does pass. it's just shiitake while you're in the middle of it.