Based on photos and facts, Sue slept on the smaller bed found immediately inside the doorway to their room. Tina slept on the far side of the other bed, using a cardboard box as a nightstand between the big bed and the wall. This was a deliberate and designed, established lifestyle. Sue did NOT sleep on the couch, she slept in that bed.

Mike and I spent a lot of time discerning what was in photos, bringing each other up to a common level of understanding. Mike has new prints from the original [color] negs, and we spent a lot of time on the girls' bedroom.

Blood. Cardboard. Everything is wrong. We spent more time figuring out the color and contour of the sheet on Tina's/Sheila's bed than we did looking into the miraculous Pink Suit.

Q: How did the killers know if Tina or Sheila was home that night?!

A: Justin, presumably, logically, was asked to sleep over AFTER that decision was made.

A: Theoretically, anyone in 26 knew who was home at 28 that night, putting Tina on the plate if she was the bizarre focus.

I remember much about those photos and don't want my memories to evaporate, but the focus of my last post is DID THE KILLERS KNOW TINA WAS AT 28?

Fuck, yes, they would know- if that was the focus. My allegation has always been Justin stayed over when Sheila's sleepover collapsed. Sheila was taken in at 27 to bolster her confidence and resolve, and Tina was reluctantly booted from her routine of Staying at 27 on Sat Night.

S-A-T-U-R-D-A-Y NIGHT!

Logically, Justin would not have been asked to sleep over if Sheila's attempts at same had succeeded. Ergo, 26 MAY HAVE LEARNED Tina may be at 28

Tina was not the target, imo, but those who want to make her the target can't even place the killers in 28 with her as the target. I just did their work for them and spelled it out.

Fair play.

Many making Tina the target don't have basic math skills. No logic, no plausible deduction skills. I had to prove the killers may have known she was home. I've, again, openly given ammunition to my detractors because they couldn't figure it out for themselves.

Ridiculous.

I want everything to be openly and honestly explored and discussed. Without specific names or other proper nouns.

The way that sheet of cardboard was placed on Tina's / Sheila's bed is fucking less than funny.

sorry for swearing, but I'm making a point.

About the cardboard, the photos had been removed by the time I joined, how was it placed? Not trying to be daft, just dont want to miss the point.

Regarding the sleepover, I'm still not seeing publicly available supportive evidence that the door-to-door quest for kids took place. When you say something is fact it has some hefty weight to it, so I want to believe you but lacking credible verifications makes things murky. What I've seen in the forums is one witness saying it happened, another witness saying the first witness was out of town at that time so she couldn't have known if it happened or not, and comments from Marilyn who you yourself have said cant be trusted. Is there something more that I've missed or is this one of those times when you're privy to info that cements this in your mind that cant be shared publicly?

I've got my 3D program running, and will have an image of the proper layout of the bedroom, including the cardboard. I'll also try to get a proper reply to theses Qs together. Depends on how long I'm able to stay vertical. It's been one of those days. Short answer, the cardboard was square with the foot of the bed.

Here's the proper layout of the Girls' bedroom, including the proper location of Tina's wallet, the beds, the wood floor and proper wallpaper, and the location of the cardboard on the bed. The cardboard is in grey.

16031k.jpg

The room was quite cluttered and messy. The boys room was messy, which is expected with a five and ten year old. But the girls room just looked cluttered and messy. They had a shitload of clothes.

The beds were obviously disturbed, since Tina and Sue were asleep in the beds when Marty, Bo, Loon, et al, entered the cabin by 1:15 am. The photos were so awful, poorly taken, that Mike and I had to go over the bedroom photos several times just to make sense of what we were looking at- putting it together like a puzzle made by a blind bastard. I saw what looked like brown leather. After going back and forth through the shots, we realized it was a chocolate brown fitted sheet (I originally and accidentally typed 'shit', which tells you where my head is- up my ass) on Tina's/Sheila's bed.Only the top left corner (Tina's side) was exposed. Covers and a pillow were atop it, and the cardboard sheet from the window squarely placed on top. There were drops/smears of blood on the cardboard. I believe the cardboard was used either for insulation from the winter cold (cardboard also covered all of Johnny's windows, and a former tenant said the basement was creepy and always cold, even in summer), but it's dimensions indicate it mainly may have been used for privacy- three ladies and thin curtains are a piss-poor fit.

I believe the door-to-door happened. It was mentioned directly in one report, and vaguely contradicted in another. I've had two forum members, one of which I've been in contact with for years prior to this "trolling" story coming out, come forward confirming the report that Sue was asking people she barely knew whether their 10ish kids wanted to sleep over. It occurred right around 6 pm, dinner time, and it was odd because they lived south of the Gen Store and only played with Tina occasionally and only knew Rick from the bus stop.

The story contradicting the Trolling tale is very murky and illogical, and I believe came from Crimely's 'work'. I'd love someone who recalls to verify that for me, because I can't tonight and will forget this within minutes. The idea these two women took off all day and night shopping, with no explanation about where all their kids were, doesn't add up on many levels. The lady in the pink cabin has died since, but I've been in contact with her daughter who, unfortunately, won't discuss Keddie. It's sad, because so much info is being repressed for unsupportable reasons.

Due to how the trolling story fits in perfectly with Sheila's sleepover shifting from 28 to 27, and Justin staying over at 28 instead- plus the 5pm dinner of burritos at 28- supports the trolling story. Add confirmation from two forum members in very good standing- one of whose own stories have been vetted and never disputed- and the idea Sue was out looking for more Rick-aged kids to sleep over that night is far more credible than the crimely contradiction. The second story sounds like the work of corrupt asshats lying to undermine the truth, but on a minor point we've only seen mentioned twice thus far.

It's perfectly clear LE intentionally fucked this case. Ergo, if a fact comes out indicating Sue was fearful that night, it indicates she also knew her killers- and it was related to Justin staying over. Ergo, LE would invent shit to contradict the trolling story.

You must be a member of the Keddie Forum with 15 approved posts to view the files attached to this post.

The top sheet and cover from Sue's bed were removed together and placed over Sue at some point by a surviving victim- not the killers.

The covers on Sheila's / Tina's bed were in place. I've seen the CS photos, it's impossible for Tina to walk out with a blanket. IMPOSSIBLE as there was no place for that blanket to be. IMPOSSIBLE. The room was messy, clothes everywhere. No place for a blanket or blankie. BULL SHIT. Never happened, Justin invented it to let the pigs know they'd sufficiently scared him.

Justin told the truth originally, but began lying when he realized LE were on the side of his parents- the killers.

Tina never came out asking "what's going on?", holding a blanket. She was awake the moment the killers woke Sue, ten feet away. She was killed inside 28 before Sue. I'm sure of it, and the gestalt has never wavered. I've made many errors and mistakes, but nothing says Tina was more than an early victim of collateral damage. So damned sad. I hate these bastards.

Tina's wallet was a man's-type wallet on a strap. Not a female wallet, something a man would wear.

I don't consider the significance, other than if she left willingly she would take the wallet. If she left alive and willingly and was involved, that billfold would never be on that cardboard box. Does anyone see how screwed LE's 1981 involvement was from the start? Tina helped at any level? FUCK YOU, DOUG THOMAS.

Tina's male wallet was the sole object on the cardboard box serving as her nightstand, so why would LE lie to the public about her supposed involvement and brainstorming in a quad familicide- when she left her wallet behind?

Because LE were morons.

Doug Thomas and others tried to blame the murders on the most innocent victim, Tina.

I want Sylvester Doug Thomas to die via public beating. I'm working on changing a few thousand laws to make it possible, but I'd rather deport him to Egypt where he'd be stoned to death just for his massive honker.

Slyvester Doug Thomas should die of a cheap, racist joke. Fuck knows he perpetuated so many.

Sorry to come back in on this, but it's important to note a toddler walking in on the crime scene would know instantly that Sue was in the small bed immediately inside the room. Tina was on the far side of the room.

Anyone in LE claiming they didn't understand who slept where, or that the crimes began in the bedroom, is a fucking liar.

Okay, so from what we know (correct me if I have it wrong ) Dana was the first victim, Sue , the last. But we do not know where Tina fits into this picture. This is I think important. There are various possible scenarios and i am sure more than I list here, and we may never know.

Tina was awakened to her mother being assaulted , tries to protect mom, is incapacitated, or killed at that moment.

Tina was awakened to the killers entering the home , perhaps said something and actually led the killers to she and her mom. This also could have been Sue. Either the killers knew where they would be sleeping before entering the house or were directed there by something verbal. This speaks to how familiar the killers were with who would be located where, and avoided the bedroom where the boys and Justin were known to be. Despite being a small house, unless someone knew the general layout and knew where the victims would be,in the dark it would be difficult to navigate, thus I suspect someone was very familiar with who would be where.

The killers then did not have to concern themselves with her. Sue was incapacitated about the same time. Johnny and Dana enter the horror, , Dana tries to run, he is killed, then Johnny. The killers then perhaps leave with Tina, and come back to finish/stage.

From what I have read here, the consensus is that Tina did not leave 28 alive. The killers obviously tossed the hammer, knife etal at some point. I wonder when that was done, while they were moving Tina, or even later?

I feel Dana and Johnny were killed before Sue due to the blood on her feet and the footprints. Tina?? no clue.. If she was killed in the bedroom before Sue, why did they take Sue to the living room? LE saying Tina might have cooperated is very fucking disturbing. How twisted can you get? Seems pretty obvious they were throwing around all kinds of misdirection.

I've been asking Mike about DNA and other evidence, and know the details of the positive match (don't ask). I asked specifically if they did enough testing to determine three or four distinct sources- the point being to determine if Tina's blood was in the cabin.

When results came back, they insisted they'd found zero female markers in any of the tested samples. Then they corrected that, saying they did find female markers. That's as deep as it goes, which is basically meaningless. Yes, or no, Tina's blood may have been in the cabin.

They should have been able to figure out if Tina died on site, had they kept all the blood evidence and found a large pool of her blood. They had the science in 1981 to determine that much.

Also, Azucena, to clarify- Yes, I believe Sue and Tina were attacked as they slept. Relevant proof is that Sue didn't have any time to put on her glasses, much less her robe. Due to the livor mortis on Dana, it proves the staging happened late in the game. I believe once everyone was dead, they did exactly what Marty told Crimely: they took Tina over the swinging bridge, tossed the pink dress into the water, and returned to do the more insane staging.

Justin never told the truth about Tina, other than he knows Marty & whomever else were taking her in that direction. There is ZERO chance his story of her coming out after the murders clutching a nonexistent blanket are remotely true. He was only trying to alert people to the fact he knew she was taken in that direction.

On a side note (maybe this should be in another thread); anybody watch that D.B Cooper special? What struck me is one of the two investigative reporters was so far down a rabbit hole on who he believes is Cooper, even when told the guy was ruled out as a suspect.. he refuses to believe. I find myself getting "stuck" like that with this case.

My many detractors have accused me of having blinders on about many aspects of the case:

Marty and Bo did it.Loon was directly involved.Other POIs involved.There was a conspiracy to cover up who did it.Crimely lied about the confessionThe boys were awake, and at least Justin was forced to participate

I have a question, likely not well thought out, but is it possible after Sue was assaulted in the bedroom, she regained consciousness , walked into the living room, while the killers were stashing Tina , thus the footprints? She was unable to move much, the killers returned to finish and stage? Later, "someone " covered her?

The killers wanted Sue alive to witness the others being killed. Apart from an ablation to the left side of her head (which caused bruising of the brain), they beat the shit out of her but wanted her conscious. Once the others were dead, they executed her with a couple stab wounds- to the chest and throat.

I know I've said many/most of the stab wounds to Sue were postmortem, but the aspiration of blood and 'considerable hemothorax' prove she was alive for at least two of the chest/neck wounds- as they were responsible for her death.

Where are they in the investigation? Still trying to get evidence? Are the six law enforcement or others or a mix? And do they pretty much know the motive or still putting it together. They're all bastards!