...Hope you understand where we're coming from from, it's a little frustrating to have something working one day, and spending alot of money to purchase more hardware that was proven compatible, to only have your entire setup made useless the next day because of an error i did not make, nor have the equip to fix. ...

The error is all yours, if only just for using alpha software in a production environment. Yes this needs to be fixed, but simply saying that you made no error is bullshit.

Everyone is being told regularily to install 0810 and that 0710 is no longer supported. These 2 posts specifically come to mind:

Seems to me that someone testing your alpha software has found a bug that may not have been found otherwise. How is this the users error?

Using alpha grade software and expecting it to be perfectly stable is a huge error. You simply cannot make an omelet without breaking eggs. And somehow "to only have your entire setup made useless the next day because of an error i did not make" does not sound like "testing" to me at all.

What perceived "insult" are we talking about here exactly? Unfounded slanderous statements like that (especially coming from people like you who haven't made any significant contribution at all) really make me wish I never bothered to build and release the alphas in the first place.

I've heard "just use 0810" so many times I even stopped counting. Yes, we have too few devs to continue to support 0710, and 0810 is not yet finished. But this was a regression caused by a bounty for the gyration support. Long after we basically did a feature freeze. So let's take care of the affected ppl here and stop offtopic flamewars.

If it helps, I can provide my log as well. I quit using this MD (Dell Latitude D800) because I was having problems getting media to play. Whenever I use the touchpad the "lights" menu pulls up- regardless of where I drop the cursor or try to select. I do NOT see this problem when I plug in a USB mouse and use that to control the MD.

Here is part of my log that, like widescreen, I only have a 21_LaunchOrbiter.sh.log, but I have variations of this log (*.log.1, *.log.2.gz, *log.3.gz, ect up to 21_LaunchOrbiter.sh.log.7.gz).

I have added/removed/changed various things over the last couple weeks since my last rebuild. I am using putty to get the above log and from what is displayed from the log every 4 seconds on 09/13/09 I got a short ready ending at time-stamp 22:00:39.611. The only thing that I have that would occur around that time is to turn off my lamppost (zwave controlled). Then on 09/17/09 at 19:22:41.195 and occuring again every 4 seconds until 09/17/09 at 19:26:53.518 (approximately 4 minutes?!?) the log ends.

I have my zwave turn on my lamppost at sunset and turn off at 10:00 PM (CST).

Unfortunately I'm running 4-5 MDs at any given time plus the core and turning them on/off trying to get the PXE power on/off to work...

cool it please! drop the argument at this point, and stay on thread....

of course this is an issue, and naturally it needs to be fixed.... I'm quite certain that thom will get on to it when he has a chance, he is very busy. We are in an unfortunate, sticky situation.... 0710 is no longer supported (and cannot be, realistically) however 0810 is still in Alpha... please be mindful of what alpha means, even though it is really the only "supported" version available at the moment.

Hmmm... ok this is a little 'off topic' but I need to respond to the state that "0710 is no longer supported (and cannot be, realistically)"...Colin you 100% right that people here on this Forum are being pushed to use the 0810-alpha in many different threads. However CHT still support & sell Dianemo/Cascade and these are both based on 0710...with very few exceptions we have no significant issues doing so. The decision to not support 0710 was taken....but it was possibly taken in haste as it is certainly practical to do so.

Both Dianemo & Cascade will be upgraded in the new year to a version based on 0910.

The reason we took the decision to no longer support 0710, is that it IS not possible to maintain a community process for what has become in essence two different systems.

You do not have the same problems we do. You TIGHTLY control your system's software compliment, and fail to mention that to people reading this thread.

0710 had an upgrade system that was unrealistic to support because it simply took over and diverted the entire dpkg system for its own needs. When your user base is possibly modifying their system adding packages for their own use, this becomes a dangerous issue. But you know this, already! This was discussed at length when we took over.

We also had to make some hard decisions relating to sqlCVS. There were a lot of unanswered questions as to what changes aaron.b had made to sqlCVS post 0710's release. We did not know about MCV, nor about many of the other things that would come to light from investigation in the coming months, so we had to dig down, and learn the ENTIRE build system ourselves, I thank Zaerc for rolling the ball on this one as long as he did, because he got us to the point where we could actually do the real work, but I digress...

We had to fork the code base, and the sqlCVS master so that we could move forward, learn the entire system, and keep moving forward on porting this thing, while improving the system. Once we completely disabled the update mechanisms, and made the system upgradeable via upstream packages for core things (again, thanks to Zaerc and posde), we decided to make this branch of code the HEAD after this release. The port to 0910 will be much faster, now that we know what is going on.

Also, you mention this is not that big of a deal. It's not, but we had to learn the whole process, across every platform. It ISN'T a big deal for you, because uplink works for you. For those who don't know, uplink is Radu Cristecu, who formerly worked on both PlutoHome and LinuxMCE. We don't have ex-employees to help us through the rough spots.

and, Andrew, just to clarify, by "support" I am referring to - providing updates, patches, changes, etc rather than supporting people using 0710 as is. I continue to provide support for the as-is version of 0710 to whoever wants is (I haven't got 0810, so 0710 is all that I can support!) But it is a statement of fact that 0710 isn't realistically supportable in terms of ongoing development as it is a completely different system requiring a completely different dev environment and all the devs have 0810 dev environment and are working on that system now. It simply isn't practical still to have an old 0710 dev env running and being actively maintained when 1) 0710 as-is is a perfectly good point in time product for people to continue using if they wish, and 2) the 0810/beta is taking so long to get out due to lack of resources.

I realise that Dianemo is using 0710 still, and very successfully, but that is a different subject.

The reason we took the decision to no longer support 0710, is that it IS not possible to maintain a community process for what has become in essence two different systems.

You do not have the same problems we do. You TIGHTLY control your system's software compliment, and fail to mention that to people reading this thread.

0710 had an upgrade system that was unrealistic to support because it simply took over and diverted the entire dpkg system for its own needs. When your user base is possibly modifying their system adding packages for their own use, this becomes a dangerous issue. But you know this, already! This was discussed at length when we took over.

We also had to make some hard decisions relating to sqlCVS. There were a lot of unanswered questions as to what changes aaron.b had made to sqlCVS post 0710's release. We did not know about MCV, nor about many of the other things that would come to light from investigation in the coming months, so we had to dig down, and learn the ENTIRE build system ourselves, I thank Zaerc for rolling the ball on this one as long as he did, because he got us to the point where we could actually do the real work, but I digress...

We had to fork the code base, and the sqlCVS master so that we could move forward, learn the entire system, and keep moving forward on porting this thing, while improving the system. Once we completely disabled the update mechanisms, and made the system upgradeable via upstream packages for core things (again, thanks to Zaerc and posde), we decided to make this branch of code the HEAD after this release. The port to 0910 will be much faster, now that we know what is going on.

Also, you mention this is not that big of a deal. It's not, but we had to learn the whole process, across every platform. It ISN'T a big deal for you, because uplink works for you. For those who don't know, uplink is Radu Cristecu, who formerly worked on both PlutoHome and LinuxMCE. We don't have ex-employees to help us through the rough spots.

-Thom

I dont disagree with any of the above at all...and I was certainly not disrespecting any of the above. But we do move code between the two versions (in both directions) and I wanted to make the point that in that sense its possible.

I've heard "just use 0810" so many times I even stopped counting. Yes, we have too few devs to continue to support 0710, and 0810 is not yet finished. But this was a regression caused by a bounty for the gyration support. Long after we basically did a feature freeze. So let's take care of the affected ppl here and stop offtopic flamewars.

I've heard "just use 0810" so many times I even stopped counting. Yes, we have too few devs to continue to support 0710, and 0810 is not yet finished. But this was a regression caused by a bounty for the gyration support. Long after we basically did a feature freeze. So let's take care of the affected ppl here and stop offtopic flamewars.