SkinsJock wrote:I totally believe that we're going to see both players and coaches doing their best to finish this season in a way that we're all going to be looking forward to sticking it to Godahell and Mara next season

Man I hope so. Some of these guys aren't just playing to keep their playoff hopes alive, but playing for their jobs next year. I think I heard Lavar make that point on the radio this week. Whether you're Jim Haslett or Madieu Williams, WHAT MORE MOTIVATION DO YOU NEED???

Deadskins wrote:Ray is correct on this, and I might add, that Humphries was a bone of contention between the two and part of the reason Beathard said goodbye.

Humphries may have been the proximate cause, but he wasn't the reason.

I agree Bethard wasn't happy Gibbs was getting final say, which I said, but was wrong about, but it was apparently correct. But you guys are forgetting he was also in his mid fifties and had family in San Diego and wanted to go there. I'm not saying it was one or the other, I'm saying it was the combination.

Kaz, you're never wrong, you just were not "right" when you claimed that Cooke ALWAYS sided with Gibbs. It was actually the opposite for the majority of the time the Beathard-Gibbs team existed.

It was the change in that situation that took place over the last couple of years where Cooke began siding with Gibbs that strained the relationship and caused Beathard to leave. Beathard knew he was the one responsible for bringing in most of the talent that comprised those "Glory Years" teams .... and felt a bit disrespected when Cooke started acting like Gibbs was the genius picking the players.

So, he left ... went to San Diego ... got the Redskins to trade to him the QB he drafted for the Redskins, and proceeded to build a winning team around that player, while the Redskins soon declined into a long period of non-relevance, while Beathard found his way back to the Super Bowl.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:My dispute with your point isn't so much that it has to be Mikey, it's that you're adopting the gnat attention span approach to rebuilding that is the biggest reason we can't stop sucking.

Contrary to the belief of armchair fans like Ray, 2 1/2 year is not long enough to overhaul a roster and build a winning organization when we were as bad as we were.

Once again, we have the "alternate reality" version of reality from you .. BIG SURPRISE. And by the way ... what is an "armchair fan" anyway? And what makes you or your opinions any different ... hmmm?

You may say others have a gnat's attention span, whilst you seem to have the memory of a gnat. Good job Pot ... meet Kettle.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:I expect to see progress this year, and I did. I expect to see more progress next year. If at the end of year four we're still 6-10 or so, then yeah, you're getting my attention. But advocating starting over now is just crazy.

You did? How did you come up with that? Oh yes. ... that new math that had Shanahan's record in denver at a 75% win ratio. Gotcha!

You don't like facts do you, Kaz? They tend to interfere with your otherwise very wise and solidly grounded opinions, don't they? Fact: this year so far, the win percentage is .333 ... while the previous 32 games are at .343. My dear Winston Smith, that is not progress. Up is not down ... left is not right ... ignorance is not strength ... and .333 is not an improvement on .343

Furthermore, I got news for you ..... the win-loss record of the 41 games under Shanahan (14-27) is WORSE than previous 41 games before Shanahan (17-24) That's not an opinion .. . nor is it speculation ... it's a hard cold documented fact which is indelibly ensconced in the record books of the NFL historical archives. And WORSE IS NOT IMPROVEMENT. It's not even "same old same old". In fact, one could justifiably say it might have been better had he never come here, if history were to make that judgment call. So, if we were so bad before, as you claim .. then we are just "mo bad" now. I don't think we can stand too much more of yours and Mike's version of "improvement". A few more years of that kind of progress and we'll be joining the Canadian Football League.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:I don't necessarily predict Mike will win a SB here, I see him more as a Perdue. A solid coach who builds a winning attitude.

I'd prefer that he actually go coach Perdue .. and take his Son with him.

Reality suggests that a 14-27 record does not reflect a winning attitude. A 5-15 home record does not ingrain a winning attitude either.

And why would anyone want a coach that they didn't believe would het the job done? Why would anyone? That makes no sense.

KazooSkinsFan wrote: I just hope there's a Gibbs out there to finish the job. Though unlike Perdue, Shannahan did win it twice and now he has a great QB, I'm not conceding he won't.

My Grand Papa used to say "Hope in one hand, and spit in the other, and watch which one fills up the fastest".

KazooSkinsFan wrote:My dispute with your point isn't so much that it has to be Mikey, it's that you're adopting the gnat attention span approach to rebuilding that is the biggest reason we can't stop sucking.

Contrary to the belief of armchair fans like Ray, 2 1/2 year is not long enough to overhaul a roster and build a winning organization when we were as bad as we were.

Once again, we have the "alternate reality" version of reality from you .. BIG SURPRISE. And by the way ... what is an "armchair fan" anyway? And what makes you or your opinions any different ... hmmm?

You may say others have a gnat's attention span, whilst you seem to have the memory of a gnat. Good job Pot ... meet Kettle.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:I expect to see progress this year, and I did. I expect to see more progress next year. If at the end of year four we're still 6-10 or so, then yeah, you're getting my attention. But advocating starting over now is just crazy.

You did? How did you come up with that? Oh yes. ... that new math that had Shanahan's record in denver at a 75% win ratio. Gotcha!

You don't like facts do you, Kaz? They tend to interfere with your otherwise very wise and solidly grounded opinions, don't they? Fact: this year so far, the win percentage is .333 ... while the previous 32 games are at .343. My dear Winston Smith, that is not progress. Up is not down ... left is not right ... ignorance is not strength ... and .333 is not an improvement on .343

Furthermore, I got news for you ..... the win-loss record of the 41 games under Shanahan (14-27) is WORSE than previous 41 games before Shanahan (17-24) That's not an opinion .. . nor is it speculation ... it's a hard cold documented fact which is indelibly ensconced in the record books of the NFL historical archives. And WORSE IS NOT IMPROVEMENT. It's not even "same old same old". In fact, one could justifiably say it might have been better had he never come here, if history were to make that judgment call. So, if we were so bad before, as you claim .. then we are just "mo bad" now. I don't think we can stand too much more of yours and Mike's version of "improvement". A few more years of that kind of progress and we'll be joining the Canadian Football League.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:I don't necessarily predict Mike will win a SB here, I see him more as a Perdue. A solid coach who builds a winning attitude.

I'd prefer that he actually go coach Perdue .. and take his Son with him.

Reality suggests that a 14-27 record does not reflect a winning attitude. A 5-15 home record does not ingrain a winning attitude either.

And why would anyone want a coach that they didn't believe would het the job done? Why would anyone? That makes no sense.

KazooSkinsFan wrote: I just hope there's a Gibbs out there to finish the job. Though unlike Perdue, Shannahan did win it twice and now he has a great QB, I'm not conceding he won't.

My Grand Papa used to say "Hope in one hand, and spit in the other, and watch which one fills up the fastest".

Supreme post where was this dude when everyone was saying what I was expressing was wrong. Damn what do you know, someone that is in line with my thoughts with facts no less.......

SkinsJock wrote::lol: DaSkinz - it'd be fun to get you a pass into the Redskins locker room and you tell a couple of those guys what you think

Don't think I haven't posted my same thoughts to London Fletcher, Santana Moss's facebook pages. I have also tweeted my thoughts to many via twitter and I have personally told my thoughts to Steve Bowen via Xbox Live where we play games online together. So I think I have done my part........

Pretty cool you talk to Bowen.. from what I've read that dude has a ton of heart and more will then most people I know. Hope his kiddo is doin good.

I was gonna add can't wait till tomorrow to get some real talk in here, this crap is getting boring! ... Stupid bye weeks. wake me when its over!

At 14-27 ... and a 5-15 home record, that's not a question that would keep me up at night. ... how much worse could someone else be?

Uh... Jim Zorn? Steve Spurrier?

You do realize both of them had better winning percentages than Mike Shanahan here right????

SO WHAT

no question that Mike, Kyle and Jim have not done well here .... and I'm not a fan of Mike as HC, but ...

are you suggesting that Spurrier or Zorn as HC for this franchise over the same period with these same players, would have a better W-L record?

I am only stating winning percentage wise Zorn and Spurrier have a better percentage. Now with that many points could be taken. I myself still feel from day one, Mike Shanahan coming here wasn't then and isn't now the man to right this ship. As people have said he like Gibbs is dated.

riggofan wrote:Yeah this guy is seriously arguing that the franchise was in better shape under Spurrier and Zorn. Ah, the good old days...!

I never said that. I simply wonder where this team would be with say a Sean Payton or one of the Harborough brothers. Why keep using the same marketing ploys that don't work? First you bring back Gibbs, then you go further back in time with George Allen's son and another coach that is just as outdated as Gibbs. Snyder needs to learn that Football has become a young man's sport. Using retreads from the 80's and 90's isn't a formula that works here. Find a young hungry coach that the players will respect and play hard for, not a grandpa type coach that can't understand young players today. The John Elway's and Terrell Davis's are gone......It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure this one out.