I thought it would be good to look at the Russian war before we study the Global Government. Many experts are speculating (their words) that the Syrian civil conflict could escalate into the Russian war. Thus it is good to look at what God`s word says. I will do this in 3 parts –

Russia claims to want peace. However, it is of interest to note that the Russian word for `Peace,` is `Meer.` The same word means `The World.` When they claim to want peace, are they in fact wanting the world? Russia`s policy has always been world domination. This is the core of their `New World Order.`

The strategic advantage of involvement in the Middle East, & the economic wealth accruing from controlling the world distribution of crude oil has been a Soviet (Russia) prime objective for years. This was exposed by the Israeli army in 1982.

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs for the State of Israel reports –

“During the operation `Peace for Galilee,` as the Israeli forces advanced through Lebanon in July 1982, they made an amazing discovery. Around the village of Saida, the largest secret military base in the world was uncovered. It consisted of miles of steel reinforced bunkers tunnelled out of the hillside. Inside was crammed massive quantities of Soviet made arms & ammunition. It exceeded by far the highest previous intelligence estimates. I.D.F. units gathered 4170 tons (some 1,500 truckloads) of ammunition; hundreds of combat-vehicles; tanks & armoured carriers; thousands of weapons, artillery & rocket launchers, plus other sophisticated devices.
These arms & stores were far in excess of P.L.O. requirements. Secret documents, & maps found in the Command Post clearly revealed that the Soviets planned invasion of the Middle East on the 4th August 1982. The I.D.F. averted this Soviet invasion by just a few weeks.”

However there is an appointed time predicted. Russia will certainly invade the Middle East. World War 3 will have commenced.

The Soviet Union`s Olympic Games Poster in 1979 portrays a cute cuddly bear. However as Daniel 7: 5 (Contemporary view) shows it is a voracious bear, a power bloc that `devours much flesh.`
We will look at the `3 ribs,` in the last section.

`For about two decades we`ve had no real modernization, at least not like what`s being proposed now,` says V. Rudenko, (director of the independent Interfax-Military News Agency). `Russia will finally have a modern, top-level armed forces that are capable of protecting the country.`

From guardian.co.uk (3rd Dec. 2011)

`Putin prepares the Russian Empire to Strike Back.`

`As prime minister for the past four years, Vladimir Putin never really went away. But his looming reincarnation as the all-powerful, executive president of Russia, poses a stark challenge for which the US, Britain & other beleaguered western powers seem ill-prepared. As president, potentially until 2024, Putin has one overriding objective: the creation of a third, post-tsarist, post-Soviet-Russian empire.`

I think its interesting that Syria recently used chemical weapons on their own people. Obama laid down some demands that needed to be dealt with concerning the Syrian government. But when Putin stepped in and took the Syrian governments side everything suddenly got swept under the carpet.

I think a lot of other countries see Russia as a threat.

This is what I never understood about the rapture. Everyone states all has been fulfilled and nothing is stopping the rapture from taking place and it will start the ball rolling for the beginning of the seven years tribulation.

But no one ever considered this war that will take place and Israel will burn their weapons for seven years.

It seems to me that this is the next big event that will take place and then fulfill prophecy. Also I tend to think a number of big events will take place all at the same time.

Russia is defeated on the mountains of Israel, the One world leader will come on the scene with the ten nations backing him.

If Russia is defeated as scriptures show, then what of the Arab nations who will participate? This may eliminate some of the Arab countries from being part of a ten nation confederacy.

If I remember correctly there will be a number of nations who come against Israel at this time.

The Prophet Ezekiel has a very detailed prophecy concerning the Russian War. He predicts that Russia will mount a massive military attack in the Middle East. However it will not be when Russia decides to come down but it will be at God`s appointed time.

With Russia will be many companies of peoples. Russia will be the commander for them & lead them down to the Middle East.

`I will bring you out, & all your army, horses & horsemen, all of them splendidly attired, a great company with buckler & shield, all of them wielding swords......Gomer with all its troops; beth (house of)-togarmah from the remote parts of the north with all its troops – many peoples with you. Be prepared, & prepare yourself, you & all your companies that are assembled about you, & be a guard for them.` (Ez. 38: 4, 5, 7)

The Russian Confederacy is a powerful confederacy of nations retaining the same philosophy & militaristic ambitions as in Soviet times. Ezekiel enumerates these nations, delineating them by their ethnic origins. Professors of Etymology, such as Dr. Gesenius, Josephus & others have investigated the identity of these peoples, beginning with the ancient patriarchs of Genesis 10. Their migrations have been methodically traced through ancient records & archaeological discoveries to the present day. The Encyclopedia Britannica is also a source of confirmation.

The final areas of settlement, development & population growth has been established as primarily the Russian republic. It is the dominant force in this confederation. But allied with it are the Slovac countries of eastern Europe, together with the various Republics along Russia`s Southern border - known as the C.I.S. (The Commonwealth of Independent States.)

There is also 3 other countries who have not previously been incorporated within this Confederation. These are Persia, (Iran) Ethiopia & Put (Libya) who then join this move into the Middle East.

`Persia, Ethiopia & Put with them, all of them with shield & helmet;....` (Ez. 38: 5)

From Daniel 7: 5 we see that the bear has in its mouth 3 ribs. From the contemporary view this metaphorically represents the 3 nations that were not in this Russian Confederation. However when then the bear is told to `Arise, devour much meat!` it has the 3 ribs/countries with it.

`like a storm; you will be like a cloud covering the land, you & all your troops, & many peoples with you.....And you will come from your place out of the remote parts of the North....& you will come up against My people Israel like a cloud to cover the land..` (Ez. 38: 9, 15 & 16)

WHY DO THEY COME?

`It will come about ...that thoughts will come into your mind, & you will devise an evil plan.... to capture spoil & to seize plunder.....` (Ez. 38: 10 – 12)

WHO CHALLENGES THE RUSSIAN CONFEDERACY?

`Sheba & Dedan, & the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions, will say to you, `have you come to capture spoil? Have you assembled your company to seize plunder, to carry away silver & gold, to take away cattle & goods, to capture great spoil.` (Ez. 38: 13)

Challenging the Russian Federation is an Allied army from Britain, America & the Commonwealth nations. They cooperate together against aggression just as they have in previous world wars. The `merchants of Tarshish & the young lions,` is known as Britain & its Commonwealth. Sheba & Dedan are the ancient names of those nomadic peoples who now populate the countries of Arabia.

WHAT IS THE OUTCOME?

It is at this juncture that God intervenes directly in contemporary history. He invokes the elements in a series of judgmental catastrophes which destroy 5/6ths of the Russian Confederation`s armies. (Ez. 39: 2)Seven months will be occupied with burying the dead, (Ez. 39: 12) while it takes seven years to burn the weapons. (Ez. 39: 9)

An important point to realise is that once the big bear of the North & especially Iran have lost most of their armies there will be a power vacuum in the Middle East. Russia & Iran (& other countries) will no longer be a threat. Thus the Arab nations can arise as a power in the region. This will be the most terrifying force that the world has even seen.

Marilyn, I sure hope America does back Israel. I know it would not happen these days.

We still support Israel at this point GWB. The thing is another World war does not sound promising. I know one day scripture will be fulfilled but war is horrible.

I did notice Israel bombed Syria recently, of course, it did not make headline news. It was on the back page somewhere.

Jman

Nice brief summary, I thought you rejected the idea of a manchild because of your original post here.

I don't think I can be convinced otherwise who this woman is with the twelve stars, then the manchild who goes immediately to the throne once he is brought forth.

Adding to what you shared; I think there was to be some type of ministry that goes forth as a witness, then the manchild is caught away. This is why the dragon is wroth with the woman and makes war with her.

Like I tried to imply earlier, to him that overcomes seems like a hand full, taking one day at a time is a challenge in itself.

From Daniel 7: 5 we see that the bear has in its mouth 3 ribs. From the contemporary view this metaphorically represents the 3 nations that were not in this Russian Confederation. However when then the bear is told to `Arise, devour much meat!` it has the 3 ribs/countries with it.

This bear mentioned in Daniel was part of the four beasts who were four kings. The four beasts also represent the four kingdoms that are part of the Image.

These four kings history teaches us have already been on the scene and fulfilled part of the vision of Daniel.

The bear in this case is The Roman Empire that matches the legs of iron in the image.

What I don't see is how your making this bear now become Russia. Yes I believe Russia represents the bear mentioned in Ezk. 38: who makes up the kings of the north. There were three nations that the Roman empire took over in battle that could also represent the three ribs mentioned in Daniel.

I am leaning towards the fact that the toes of Iron and Clay could represent these 10 Arab nations, but I also am leaving open the idea as William mentioned that the EU could go back to a ten nation confederacy. As we all know, things in world history can literally change overnight.

Anyway not to change the thought here, but this bear with iron teeth mentioned in Daniel I believe is distinct between the bear mentioned in Ezk. 38:, who is the king from the north.

This is what happens to a person who wakes up in the morning with no coffee and who tries to post. I don't know what I was thinking a little confusion taking place obviously. I had Russia on my mind and the bear with three ribs. I had just been reading over these passages the night before so I don't know what happened here.

Medo-Persia conquered three nations, Babylon, Egypt, and Lydia. This is what many think represent the three ribs. Medo-Persia (the bear) was devouring the three ribs in this case.

It is interesting that Persia is shown as a bear, and we know that Persia is modern day Iran. Iran is next door to Russia and Russia wants to always protect this country, they definitely have ties together.

Quote:

Daniel 2:43 As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay. 44 And in the days of these kingsthe God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.

If you notice in this statement it says that; "In the days of these Kings", "The God of heaven will set up a kingdom"

From the context it is implying the Roman empire or at least remnants will still exist in these end times. I think there has to be a tie because the iron is mixed with the clay.

Does that make sense here.

I must admit I am totally rusty on this whole subject since it has not been a priority with me after all these years. I only remember a lot of the basic information we were taught. I'm trying to review what I have heard against what you are sharing to see what holds the stronger view with scripture.

Yes I need my morning coffee, too. Thanks for persevering with this topic. I have a few questions concerning the historic view & perhaps you can answer or work through them for me.

To me the historic view seems to come from the iron on the legs then iron & clay for the feet. And as we know the legs are representing the Roman Empire, so people do a quick look & suppose that the iron means Rome also. But this is not logical. If I said to you the iron object is a pot, you could not assume that an iron & clay object was also a pot. If you know what I mean. It is an assumption. In other words the iron & clay kingdom can be any kingdom of strength & weakness for that is what the adjectives describe.

And another question - How can the historic empires if Babylon is the lion & Medes & Persians the bear & Greece the Leopard, how can they continue after Christ has set up His kingdom? (Rev. 7: 11 & 12)

To me the historic view is not very consistent with scripture.
Hope I don`t give you a head ache????

Yes I need my morning coffee, too. Thanks for persevering with this topic. I have a few questions concerning the historic view & perhaps you can answer or work through them for me.

My wife has a sign in the kitchen that reads: "All the coffee in Columbia will not make me a morning person". LOL She got me started on coffee and now I think I finally enjoy that bitter tasting drink.

Like I said, I'm very rusty with all of this, knowing all the facts of the future that may be true or may not be true has not been a priority. Maybe this is why its easier to just to hold to a standardize view. I don't know if any of us remember all that was taught, William seems to have a better understanding then even what I do.

You have to admit, for centuries now there have been many scenarios concerning interpreting these scriptures. With each generation someone tries to make them fit the time period that they exist in. Now we can all look back and see why; "what they were saying did not come to pass".

Quote:

To me the historic view seems to come from the iron on the legs then iron & clay for the feet. And as we know the legs are representing the Roman Empire, so people do a quick look & suppose that the iron means Rome also. But this is not logical. If I said to you the iron object is a pot, you could not assume that an iron & clay object was also a pot. If you know what I mean. It is an assumption. In other words the iron & clay kingdom can be any kingdom of strength & weakness for that is what the adjectives describe.

Once iron always iron. Why would it suddenly change just because it is mixed with clay. At least the influence is there. How could we all recognize it as being Rome (legs of iron), and then with no scriptural basis suddenly decide its some other kingdom, just to make it fit our theology.

How can the rock cut without hands at a later date grind the image that is already done its part in history?

If we go by Revelations, Babylon is still in existence, at least mentioned in Revelations, and we know modern day Iran represents Persia, So the logical conclusion is that Rome would still exist to trample these other beasts.

Quote:

And another question - How can the historic empires if Babylon is the lion & Medes & Persians the bear & Greece the Leopard, how can they continue after Christ has set up His kingdom? (Rev. 7: 11 & 12)

You may have answered your other question. If these countries exist why would Rome not exist as well.

Quote:

To me the historic view is not very consistent with scripture.

Its like with any subject in the Bible. How a person is taught as a young Christian is how they will always look at the Bible. I have come to this conclusion after all these years.

I don't understand how we can all (in Christianity) read a secular book and come away with the same conclusion but when it comes to the Bible we all have a totally different view from what it is telling us. This is mind boggling.

Maybe it has something to do with the fact the Bible is spiritual in nature, and all of us live in this realm.

But I do believe there are many parts of the historical view that you believe as well.

Quote:

Hope I don`t give you a head ache????

You may not understand this but anyone who went to FA will understand. And that is; "I don't get head aches".

Actually I think its interesting to discuss, but I must admit I don't have all the answers. I do agree though that I know Russia will come against Israel. I think Ezekiel is clear on that part of it.

What about Gomer?, I think the historical view recognizes this as the German people.

I better close this out before I hit the wrong button and delete my whole post. LOL

Told my friend about Terese`s coffee sign & she said her sign in the kitchen says, `It`s either me or the house, only one of us can look good!!!` Trev`s sign is `Pack up your troubles & go fishing,` which we are doing again later in the week up the river. Trev has a break from the hay season.

I appreciated you answering from the historic point of view Gary. Having not been taught that you can see why I am questioning in detail.

Now you said -

Quote:

`Now we can all look back and see why; "what they were saying did not come to pass".

That is so true & the standardize view has not happened either, ay.

Next, I do find this difficult, as you said -

Quote:

How could we all recognize it as being Rome (legs of iron), and then with no scriptural basis suddenly decide its some other kingdom, just to make it fit our theology.

The `iron,` is the adjective & not the noun. People have assumed it is Rome but God uses the word `iron,` to mean strength. The `legs,` are Rome & it was a strong (iron) Empire, while the next, last Empire will be `strong & weak.` The Anti Christ being `the Assyrian,` & `King of Babylon,` at the very least causes us to think more widely. (As you have graciously said previously.)

And again, you said -

Quote:

`If we go by Revelations, Babylon is still in existence, at least mentioned in Revelations,...`

Quite true, Babylon is described in Revelation. The first world Empire at Babylon, & the last world Empire also there. The Lord crushes all these Empires, throughout history (they have all gone) & finally at the end, the last one`s rule is also crushed.

So then how can any of them continue on into the Millennium after they have been destroyed?

I kept looking until the beast was slain, & its body was destroyed & given to the burning fire. As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but an extension of life was granted to them for an appointed period of time.` (Dan. 7: 11 & 12)

If these `beasts,` of Daniel 7 are looked at from the contemporary view then of course they will go through into the Millennium, but from an historic view they would have been all crushed. So you can see my difficulty with the historic view.

We can all put empires or powers to the symbols, but when we do the details of what God says about them then we need to read carefully.

You said you thought you had answered all my questions but remember you previously said -

Quote:

`Will be thinking about all of this....`

This is the main question I had - Now you said ....

Quote:

`If we go by Revelations, Babylon is still in existence, at least mentioned in Revelations,...`

And I said -

Quote:

`Quite true, Babylon is described in Revelation. The first world Empire at Babylon, & the last world Empire also there. The Lord crushes all these Empires, throughout history (they have all gone) & finally at the end, the last one`s rule is also crushed.

So then how can any of them continue on into the Millennium after they have been destroyed?

I kept looking until the beast was slain, & its body was destroyed & given to the burning fire. As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but an extension of life was granted to them for an appointed period of time.` (Dan. 7: 11 & 12)

If these `beasts,` of Daniel 7 are looked at from the contemporary view then of course they will go through into the Millennium, but from an historic view they would have been all crushed. So you can see my difficulty with the historic view.

We can all put empires or powers to the symbols, but when we do the details of what God says about them then we need to read carefully.`

If these `beasts,` of Daniel 7 are looked at from the contemporary view then of course they will go through into the Millennium, but from an historic view they would have been all crushed. So you can see my difficulty with the historic view.

They are destroyed at the end of the tribulation. I don't know of anyone who thinks they will go on into the Millennium period.

Remember the little diagram William printed? It does not show these kingdoms going into the millennium.

Why are you thinking they will be in the millennium did someone mention this somewhere?

Just trying to get some clarification here. You said concerning the beasts,

Quote:

`They are destroyed at the end of the tribulation`

but God says concerning these beasts of Dan. 7 that after the Anti-Christ & his kingdom is destroyed then -

`As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season & a time.` (Dan. 7: 12)

As you said the Anti-Christ & his kingdom are dealt with at Armageddon & are destroyed or sent to the lake of fire. However we see that some nations (beasts) only have their power taken away (dominion) but they are allowed further time. The only time after the tribulation is the Millennium - re: the sheep & the goat nations.

So how do these beasts have a `prolonged life,` after the Anti-Christ is dealt with? - especially if they are historic empires that have long gone. It does not make sense to me. What do you understand about those verses? (Dan.7: 11 & 12)

Marilyns post: The Russian War (WW3) [message #10281 is a reply to message #10274 ] So then how can any of them continue on into the Millennium after they have been destroyed?

Hi Marilyn,

I tried to find the statement you said I quoted.

Here is where you start asking this question, but I cannot find any reference where I make this statement. If you find this in another place I am interested in knowing where and why I stated it. It may have been in another context.

We`re up the river having a relaxing time with the kangaroos &
kookaburras & by the camp fire. Any way I didn`t think we had reception up here but I have been able to in certain spots. But then I forgot my Password & had to try & reset it before I ran out of time - on batteries.

So here is your quote & post number, hope it helps.

Quote:

`They are destroyed at the end of the tribulation. I don't know of anyone who thinks they will go on into the Millennium period.`

We`re up the river having a relaxing time with the kangaroos &
kookaburras & by the camp fire. Any way I didn`t think we had reception up here but I have been able to in certain spots. But then I forgot my Password & had to try & reset it before I ran out of time - on batteries.

So here is your quote & post number, hope it helps.

Quote:

`They are destroyed at the end of the tribulation. I don't know of anyone who thinks they will go on into the Millennium period.`

Post - 10292.

So glad you had a `God day.`

Marilyn,

For crying out loud, tell Trevor to take that laptop or phone and throw it into the river. A man can't even enjoy a good day fishing without some electronic device shining on the water and scaring the fish away.

Post 10292 is a later post, I want to see the original post where I quoted this statement. Can you find that one?

Anyway try to have a good time fishing its hard to be quiet on the water when you hear, "You got mail" ringing out across the valley.

It must be warm there if you guys are camping. Its in the thirties here.

BTW have you seen the latest post GWB is taking gummy bears. What's this world coming to anyway?

I got to go I'm starting to have a few laughs here. Please find that post if you can.

Re: The Russian War (WW3) [message #10292 is a reply to message #10291 ] Tue, 12 November 2013 16:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Quote:

Marilyn -Quote:

If these `beasts,` of Daniel 7 are looked at from the contemporary view then of course they will go through into the Millennium, but from an historic view they would have been all crushed. So you can see my difficulty with the historic view.

They are destroyed at the end of the tribulation. I don't know of anyone who thinks they will go on into the Millennium period.

Remember the little diagram William printed? It does not show these kingdoms going into the millennium.

Why are you thinking they will be in the millennium did someone mention this somewhere?

This comment in post 10274 may be the start of this thought.
You said -

Quote:

`If we go by Revelations, Babylon is still in existence, at least mentioned in Revelations, and we know modern day Iran represents Persia, So the logical conclusion is that Rome would still exist to trample these other beasts.`

So if these `beasts,` (from the historic view) are trampled down & then all crushed by the `stone,` (Christ) then WHO are the nations, the `beasts,` given further life for a while? (Dan. 7: 11 & 12)

So if these `beasts,` (from the historic view) are trampled down & then all crushed by the `stone,` (Christ) then WHO are the nations, the `beasts,` given further life for a while? (Dan. 7: 11 & 12)

Good question. I was thinking about the people who come out of tribulation and go into the Millennium.

Will these people have the mark of the beast?
Who is left during the tribulation that would refuse the Mark?
Are Christians the only ones who refuse the mark or do some third world countries not have the mark?

I don't know if scripture spells this out completely. I know that men will live to be a thousand years old, and will see the glory of God on the earth and then when satan is loosed they will blatantly rebel against God.

Daniel 7:11 “I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.

Quote:

do·min·ion
[duh-min-yuhn]
noun
1.
the power or right of governing and controlling; sovereign authority.
2.
rule; control; domination.
3.
a territory, usually of considerable size, in which a single rulership holds sway.
4.
lands or domains subject to sovereignty or control.
5.
Government . a territory constituting a self-governing commonwealth and being one of a number of such territories united in a community of nations, or empire: formerly applied to self-governing divisions of the British Empire, as Canada and New Zealand.

If their dominion was taken away that was their right of governing and controlling people. So only their power is taken away they still have their lives according to Daniel for a season and a time. The logical conclusion without knowing every little scripture that covers this, is that these people who survive the tribulation will enter the millennium.