@sharina: There was an exhibit in my city at one of the museums and the paints were so crazy with vivd colors and all the monkeys and parrots. And i saw the film with Selma Heyak as Frida Kahlo. It was very interesting.

“U.S. filibuster William Walker overthrew the government of Nicaragua and attempted to conquer the other nations in Central America, including Costa Rica, in order to form a private slave-holding empire”

The American government maintained an official position that they were not behind William Walker but behind closed doors, he had big business corporations and politicians backing him (until he pis off Vanderbilt)

If Walker had succeeded, it meant that the southern US States would have gotten the land they desperately wanted to expand their “country” –so they could send the black American slaves out of the USA; and at the same time, profit from their slave labor by setting up their farms and factories in Central America. (which they managed to do anyway later but with paid labor done by free men)

Walker intended to import black Americans as slaves, as well as enslave the local working-class black and mestizo population.

William Walker is not remembered in US history but he is in Central America

In Costa Rica, April 11th is Juan Santamaría Day – a national hero who symbolizes the war against William Walker at the Second Battle of Rivas, Nicaragua

Costa Rican President Juan Rafael Mora was aware of Walker’s plan to enslave the people of Central America and Walker’s plans to expand the USA’s “Southern Confederacy” – so Mora declared war on Walker

Juan died after volunteering to set fire to a hotel where Walkers men were winning–doing so changed things.

The story is somewhat disputed but Juan is remembered for his “spirit”… a poor boy who had nothing to offer but courage… very hokey but someone has to wear the face of the brown Angel against gringo tyranny.

[…] National Hispanic Heritage Month in the US is almost upon us! It starts on September 15th. Not every post will be on Hispanics, but hopefully more than in most months.Nominate or second topics you want to see posts on. It can be anything about Spanish America, though topics that more directly concern US Hispanics and their history are preferred.- Click through to make your suggestions – […]

El Salvador comes to mind. Like other countries in Latin America, El Salvador did practice slavery. However, after slavery many Black Salvadorans were “racially absorbed” in the dominant mestizo population, creating Afro-Mestizos. Unfortunately, under a white supremacy government, Black people were NOT allowed to immigrate to El Salvador. As said, racist Salvadoran laws banned Blacks (e.g., the Garinagu, Miskito, English-speaking Antillean Blacks, etc.) from entering the country in the 1930s, these laws were eventually revoked in the early 1980s.

Afro-Latinos are still facing a lot of racism in their respected countries. Some things have gotten a lot better but the struggle continues.

Maria Elena Moyano (1960-1992) was an Afro-Peruvian community organizer and activist who was assassinated by the maoist Shining Path (Sendero Luminoso) insurgent movement. On February 15, 1992, during a fund-raising rally in Villa El Salvador (Peru), in the presence of her two children and other onlookers, she was machine-gunned to death and her corpse blown up with dynamite by the Shining Path. Moyano’s life and legacy need to be told to the world.

Central American countries developing their biofuels industries may be at risk for similar land-rights issues. In Guatemala’s Valle de Polochic, a reported 800 indigenous families were recently forced off their land by the biofuel industry, their homes and crops burned to make way for ethanol feedstock production.

(Abagond, I have been wondering lately if any of this is contributing to the fact that so many people from Central America are leaving those countries.)

Cubans/ their politics in the USA(why are some staunch Republicans?)
Hispanic vs. Latino (which one is it? What’s the distinction?
Hispanics, are they going to be the new white in racial classification in 2042?

What IS this “hot-blood”, BRASH and more “passionate” than everybody else nonsense come from?
The only Latina image I can think of that was brainy, strong and sensitive was “ugly”, as in Ugly Betty.

— The White Latina.
Gina Torres (a Cuban American) says the media expects them to look “Italian”.
Are they Women of Colour? Is their image the most white-washed kind?
Are they really “more” beautiful than brown or black Latinas?

— How did Margarita Carmen Cansino become Rita Hayworth?
It wasn’t just a name change, of course. Was this figure the first in a long line of initially “swarthy” Hispanics that gradually ended up blonde?

This should be be said up front, Brazil shouldnt be on the table of this discusion , technicly , because they dont speak Spanish, and if you are speaking of Latin America , Brazil is a major part, so its going to be confusing

Absolutly, Mary , Tito Puentes is Puerto Rican , Bueno Vista Social Club is Cuban , and clave culture actualy has influenced black American culture in a big way…

Chano Pozo would be a great topic…

People should know the differance between hispanic cultures that had more Afro diasporic culture like Cuba, and Puerto Rico , and those Hispanic cultures with less Afro diasporic cultural influence like Mexico and Argentina…

I nominate the of history Latin American countries, perhaps in parts if it would pose too much of a challenge to condense them into one post. And, maybe with a look into cultures like Bulanik mentioned with Chicano culture.
I nominate a history of . ..

Ebonymore, you’re right, it’s won’t be easy to condense any Hispanic nation.
There are at least 20 of them, including Equatorial Guinea, but not Philippines.

I don’t think the size of the country makes a difference, though.
I realise you’re not saying that: I just feel like a smallish Ecuador, for instance, is probably no less complex than a big one, like Colombia…
Sometimes, I think the smaller, less heard-of and “forgotten” about countries can be the most eye-opening. Size isn’t everything! LOL.

Once, someone took the time to outline Ecuadorian social structure, the way the racialists framed it — describing it like a triangle within a pyramid:
On the top, you have the oligarchs, the upper class, the ones with money and control over the economy (la sociedad), invariably blancos.
Another group of blancos, the new oligarchs, who belong to this strata from wealth that has been “accumulated”. They all self-identify as blanco, whether they look “white” or not, and do so unconditionally.

Then, there’s the middle class: the professionals and business people.
They generally self-identify as blanco too, though a few might say they are indio or some such. Most though, might use the term:buena familia (good family.

Then, there is the concept of el mestizaje, which is used to describe the unified mixed race people of the country.
And bear in mind that it’s these same people — the elite and educated middle classes — who do all this defining and determine who is what race..

This is something I’m interested to find out about, how prevalent is this colour casting system from Hispanic country to country? I think whether or not it is across all Hispanic nations will be the definitive answer to whether or not the Hispanic community will automatically adapt to calling themselves White in the US to complete the forth enlargement of Whiteness.

Another suggestion the film “In The Time Of The Butterflies” about the Mirabal sisters who opposed the dictatorship of Rafael Trujillo they were assassinated November 25,1960. Salma Heyak is great in this film. Salma Heyak is a great actress and you should do a post on her. And also a post on Rita Moreno and Chita Rivera, all these ladies are so talented i enjoy their work. And also a post on the now defunct ABC hit show “Ugly Betty.”

The Motorcycle Diaries the book and movie about Che Guevara went on in his youth that showed him his calling as a revolutionary. Many young people just think he is a cool picture on a tee shirt from Urban Outfitters or a wall poster. I don’t think they really know who this man was. I myself am learning who he was. As i was just a sheep thinking that looks cool as a tee shirt with an old pair jeans to slump around in around the house. I am learning who this guy is. He would a an excellent post as well.

Of course , the same racial hiarchy that is in the USA , exists in any Hispanic country in the Americas….the same dynamic with Natuve Americans…there are differances in each story but the same fundimentals…in the USA, there was a violent civil war , with slavery at the center, you can sat anything you want about Lincolns intentions about slavery in the face of war, but the South was fighting for slavery…that unbeleivable violence of the civil war , and how the violence played out after, formed a dynamic in the usa that was differant…and fortold the jim crow laws and KKK violence that was to follow…

I beleive when you live in these countries, who is white, black , Indian , others , etc, mixed , to what degrees etc, becomes more obvious…if you look at composite photos in Brazil , though not Hispanic ,most of all the political people killed in the dictatorship, the overwelming amount of people are phenotype white,with some mixture, in a country fifty percent black, because politics is a white persons game in Brazil

There is a real reason that “latina” women have a reputation for being hot…And ,it is exactly because of Afro diasporic cultural influences on the Hispanic colonised countries that had larger Afro slave populations….and not the black Islamic Afro influences…it directly relates to the phenominal power of the drum dance cultures that developed in those countries, especialy Cuba, Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic , Panama,etc Cuba being a huge influence, the Rumba, Mambo, Cha Cha Cha , all being internationaly recognised dance sensations…

Those are names of beats and dances , so is the Merengue of the Dominican Republic….an internationaly recognised dance sensation…all have incredible Afro diasporic principles of drop dead hip shaking hooked up with shuffle steps , with origins of beats and dances that came from Santera , Candombe from Uruguai, I wont mention Brazil, not Hispanic , or the English and French speaking countries with the same dynamics…and these Afro diasporic concepts , poured out into the popular musics and dances of these countries, with the Afro diasporic concepts the foundation of these cultures….I mean,this is absolutly enormous astounding cultural influence….deserves as much humble acknowledgement in human civilisational developement and trajectory as any other in man kinds history…all though out the Americas where there were slaves from Africa

And these Afro diasporic Hispanic dance moves and beats , done by the women and men , is the real reason “Latino ” women got the hot reputation…all you have to do is watch some real Mambo dancers , or Rumba dancers , who bring the Afro diasporic concepts alive in the beats and movements , to know why its hot….there is nothing like Afrobdiasporic beat dance in the world…with all its unbeleivable variety , diversity and force…quente pra caramba…this steeped over to include all Latina women…and stereotype them

-CIA involvement in Latin America during the Cold War
-Trujillo of the DR
-Venezuelan protests 2014
-Evo Morales (first indigenous president)
-Latin American gangs/violence and the drug war
-Economic history
-Latin American art, cinema, and literature
-White

This is something I’m interested to find out about, how prevalent is this colour casting system from Hispanic country to country? I think whether or not it is across all Hispanic nations will be the definitive answer to whether or not the Hispanic community will automatically adapt to calling themselves White in the US to complete the forth enlargement of Whiteness.

I am also curious about this. What might the answers be?
The “smaller” countries interest me most. I want to know about Nicaragua, and Panama especially.

From what we seen so far, white supremacy has driven national unity in these countries. The kind of race homogeneity it seeks is based on the triumph of the Europeanized mestizo. The black and African presence is so assimilated as to be denied. That is not universal, though, and has changed a bit in one or 2 places, particularly in Argentina and Mexico, but generally my impression is still one of exclusion, marginalization, appropriation and denial.
Just think of Tango: http://www.indyweek.com/indyweek/the-blackness-of-tango/Content?oid=1197334

Also, what of the Chinese, particularly, in these countries?
Specifically because I think they came under earlier and different circumstances (as slaves) than other Asians.
When I think of Mexico, for example, whilst the Movers and Shakers in that country wanted blacks to be excluded from the national image, they wanted the Chinese expelled from Mexico all together.

The Chinese were part of Mexico from around the 17th century — Asians were used as slaves before that — but their contributions are rarely, if ever, extolled as part of the national narrative.

I wonder if Jefe has commented as yet about the Chinese and Philppino slaves and workers in ths setting?

King posted a documentary link on the zoot suit riots quite some time ago, perhaps two years ago. I clicked it thinking I’d watch just a bit but I watched it all because it was so interesting and because it was the sort of history that is lost down the Whites are Basically Good Memory Hole. Hopefully, he’ll read your comment and repost it –I do not recall the name of the documentary, else I would repost it. 🙂

Legion, I acquired background on the zoot suit and the origin of that particular fashion trend some time ago, and on the riots as well. I just thought it would make an interesting subject for a blog post.

Also, as a courtesy to Abagond, I’m intentionally trying NOT to go into too much detail in my suggestions as there would be little or no interest in a post if its story has already been summarized and especially if it’s been laid bare in commenter posts.

I reside in L.A. county and I can honestly say that the once heated tension between Mexicans and African-Americans resulted from the competitive drug turfing of Latino (surenos/trece cholos) and African-American (Bloods and Crips) street gangs. The tension between the two ethnic gangs hit a peak in 2005. Words on the street said that members of a black gang (6-Pacc East Coast Crips) stole drugs from members of a Mexican gang (Florencia 13), which ignited a spree of black and brown killings.

Between 1995 and 2010 high school race riots between Mexicans and Blacks (and, in a lesser degree, between Mexicans and Samoans at Carson HS) was almost a norm.

The recent demographic shift in L.A. and in the LAUSD has made things relatively uneasy for African-Americans who were for decades the leading demographers in South L.A. (formerly South-Central L.A.), Watts, Compton, South Gate, Lynwood, Inglewood, North Long Beach and Carson.

When people think of Compton (CPT) naturally they think of the former gangsta rap group NWA. In the eyes of the rap world and mainstream media Compton, which is where many of my relatives reside, is considered a black or “chocolate” city but, in reality, the CPT is overwhelmingly Mexican. About a decade ago, blacks were gunned down almost everyday by black or brown street gangs. In one of my cousin’s neighborhood there was a 25-foot long brick wall used for a residential closure that had graffiti saying “fuck all niggers”. The graffiti was spray-painted by a local Mexican gang called the Compton Varrio Tortilla Flats Trece. About eight or nine years ago, a black couple who were Compton residents was beaten badly by a Mexican street gang called the CV 155th Street Locos. Google search it.

Unfortunately, in 1998, my young 18-year-old cousin who as college freshman basketball player at Compton College was killed (at a drive thru Tam’s burger joint) by the CVTF13. Killings went both ways with black and Mexican gangs but 70% were from the Mexican gangs, which they were given the “green light” by the highly organized Mexican Mafia prison gang.

On the 13th day of April of 2005, which is day I’ll never forget, the Mexican Mafia gave its surenos gangs the green light to shoot at any black person caught wearing a white T-shirt. Black people received the news of being targets and without any hesitation many young black school kids stayed home to prevent being victims of a “green light hit”.

I can definitely say that in the last seven years the tension between blacks and Mexican has died down, tremendously. Interestingly, many blacks and Mexicans grew up together and befriended each other since childhood. Today more and more black and brown unity is being presented, which is a good thing for African-American and Mexican residents of L.A. County.

Pay it forward: I acquired background on the zoot suit and the origin of that particular fashion trend some time ago, and on the riots as well. I just thought it would make an interesting subject for a blog post.

I didnt know what this was but had a brief read about it and I didnt realise an item of clothing could have such history. The Teddy boy suits of the rock and rollers in the UK are said to resemble this suit. Probably the fact that it caused people to criticise the wearers of these suits was another thing they had in common as well.

Why and how is it that in a country 50% Black, the wealth and political power is only in the hands of “White” Brazilians? And, how do “Black” Brazilians feel about this? Is there ever any protests on racism? As I’ve only ever come across one Black Brazilian who has spoken out about it, a football player who spoke out during the world cup, (can’t remember his name). Or do Black Brazilians internalise it and walk around in blissful ignorance with self hatred?

@Bulanik

Great post! I’m really interested in these racial dynamics in Spanish countries too. I’m hoping Abagond will touch on the way Blacks and Asians were and are treated in these countries.

The celebration that i love in the Fall equinox after Halloween is the Day of The Dead, All Souls Day This is really and truly a favorite of mine, i love the little skeleton figurines dressed up in their colorful outfits. And around Christmas the Posada. There should be a post on the many feast days and holidays.

This is going to be a great post thread i am very intrigued about a lot of hispanic/latin culture, the art, the food, the ancient civilizations of the Aztecs, Inca, and Mayan. The Olmec heads. The spirituality of the hispanic culture is intriguing to me. In my neighborhood and where ever there is a large demographic of immigrants from Mexico there are “botanicas” i see these stores all over the city. I have been very curious and i want to go in and see what they are about. I noticed afro-carribbean practices incorporated into their rituals. I know that alternative spiritual practices as well as Catholicism is prevalent among many hispanics. A post on hispanic spirituality would be good.

@ Mary, some great suggestions…!
I have a book that features Oscar de la Renta’s interior design, and would would love to know more about other Hispanic designers.
Definitely would like to know more about Hispanic spiritual practices — seconded!

@ Ebony, thank you for reading.
Could I suggest that before you follow direction to throw Che under the bus, it might spell sense to consider whatever criticism of him that you can first?
Then perhaps, compare it to what, say, Nelson Mandela said about him, as well as other black leaders who knew him, and make up your own mind, independently. There’s a fair amount of info provided on the internet about this, and what you may learn might surprise you.
To me, he was as “racist” as say, George Orwell, and I think that Wordynerdy was probably closest to the truth in her conclusions:
(https://abagond.wordpress.com/2014/08/05/orwell-shooting-an-elephant/)
..

Since Jefe’s Asian heritage month posts, I realise more and more that Asians, and particularly the Chinese, were never an insignificant part of the Hispanic world. Yet, when one considers that next to nothing issaid about them in that context, one would think they were never there.
I feel any focus on the Hispanic world should never leave out the people of Asia. (Btw, here’s a brief note on the Cuban Chinese: https://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/01/03/if-you-like-this-blog-you-might-also-like/#comment-201354)

The amazing film Pan’s Labyrinth by Mexican director, screenwriter, producer, novelist Guillermo Del Toro, who also gave us the very cool Hellboy films. And Pacific Rim. But i really loved Pan’s Labyrinth. Innocence of a the little girl and fantasy, and brutality all mixed up together to make this fairytale.

brief histories:
Latin America: a brief history
Mexico before 1519: a brief history
Afro-Hispanics: a brief history
Dominican Republic: a brief history
California: a brief Chicano history
Arizona: a brief Chicano history

I really hope that Abagond will seriously consider including a post on Asian HIspanics, especially if he does one on white Hispanics and black or Afro-hispanics. That might lend some insight into the extent of how the racialization of Latinos in the USA is culturally based or racially based.

Secondarily, the Asian contribution to Latin America genealogy and culture is also important, esp. if we are considering the contribution of the African diaspora and that of Native Americans. For example, Mexico thinks of itself as a mestizo nation, but in addition to European and Native elements, it also has an African, Chinese and Filipino heritage.

20% of modern day Peruvians are part Chinese. Surely the impact of this on their history and culture is as important as it is, say on SE Asian societies. Peru also has a significant Japanese descendant population. They even elected one to be president – why is the US light years away from that?

Many of the exiles from Cuba that fled to the USA were Asian or part Asian.

Finally, something on the coolie trade to Latin America would be interesting.

Indeed, it seems that when we discuss Latinos in the US, and Latin America in general, the Asian contribution is often completely omitted. And I seriously hope that I will not need to say something like “Abagond is no exception”. I think he knows better than that.

Ebonymonroe, a” few yea’rs back, I brought in various quotes of Che tha’t were racist, to paraphrase it now, instead of find them again,in his younger days, he said something to the affect that black Africans only want to get there money to drink and party and they smelled bad….he had referances to black women he slept with that arnt flattering, and later on he said that blacks will only get out of the revolution what they put in….nothing…..i didnt say fidel was racist out right…but, i brought in a referance that many black scholars and artists all signed a paper agreeing that there was racism against black people under the castro regime…a big point i make, communism doesnt address racism…it can be as bad in a communist country as a capitilist one…the americas have a racial dynamic that is similar, but plays out in each countries own way

About Brazil…its really how you look at it…but, you cant expect Brazil to be like America in how it deals with its racial problems…that is a mistake to think every country has to copy the American way to deal with it..America certainly has a highten’ed diologue about racism, but, it gets bogged down on other issues, and the diologue about racism in America is politicised and very stunted about black cultural American history…there is no real cultural awareness of what happened, and it shows on this blog ….Brazil has many things to overcome, and , compared to America, the upward mobility and visibility of black people in the middle class and media is anemic…but, Brazil had a lot m more slave revolts, in its history, and places called quilimbos where slaves ran away to form their own comunities…where i have a great fear of Afro diasporic culture being repressed and sufocated , like in America, in Brazil, in truth, if a person wants to research, there are huge examples of living snapshots of Afro Brazilian culture, dances, drum beats, cerimomies, that America sufocated and is lost…you can trace African rhythms and dances in Brazil, and find direct Africn cerimomies preserved from slave past….

and, Brazil doesnt get hung up on the anti interracial sex attitudes that America has, and you see politicised in discusions on here, which makes them more advanced on that leval….i see that there are things that are universily true abuot racism and how the legacy of slavery plays out in the Americas, when i see things happen in America, that dont happen in Brazil, then that becomes something that isnt universaly true about the struggle and legacy of slavery, and politicised anti interracial sex attitudes are pretty much unique to America, and non Americans chiming in to be in that way of American thinking

yes , Brazil has a ways to go on some counts, and they are advanced on other counts…there are headlines all the time here about racism , just recently a goalie was called a monkey and there was a big notice of it, and things like Ferguson happen all the time…with demonstrations…but, you wont hear about it outside of Brazil….but, you dont see blacks in large numbers traveling and in high power positions….its a slow developement…

As far as Che, I know its hard for people who have been suckered into thinking he represented some kind of beacon of light against the horrible capatilistic system , and , how many people fooled themselves into thinking communism was just the hunky dorey answer , that could even fight racism, but , it just wasnt and isnt so…..just because some black panthers embraced Mao and the Red Book , which Ive seen film footage proving it , doesnt mean it was right. At that time , Mao’s communist China just slaughtered millions in its cultural revolution , and another 30 million had starved from backwards beaurocratic Marist agricultural rural policies, the system being the direct fault….

Che was from Argentina, where there is rampit racism ….he said things that by anyones book could be seen as racist….if people are ready to jump on some people for saying the same things and call them racist, but let che slide, its called hypocracy….Im glad I see the sob for exactly what he is…

it seems that when we discuss Latinos in the US, and Latin America in general, the Asian contribution is often completely omitted.

I also trust Abagond to include this group of Hispanics in his posts.
It’s not as though they are an isolated section to be “looked at” for a moment and then dropped so that all can move onto more important stuff.
Their presence and racialization will reveal much about their societies and the impact on our perceptions in the Anglo-phone Americas, to.

One in 5 Peruvians are of Chinese descent…wow.
I’ve mentioned to you before that Ecuadorian step-daughter’s paternal grand-father was from Guangdong province, and that particular wave of immigrant(?) Chinese settled mainly in the coastal areas, such as Guayaquil, or Loja province. A few of the men headed to San Francisco in around the late 1950s, or early 1960s for some years. I don’t know how this is reflected in the demographics though, but I’d hazard a guess that since the African and mixed African population is often unknown / denied / ignored in official censuses, in perception and among the general population — then the Asians will be even more invisible.

Regarding Peru, I am not sure what the correct figure is. I read that up to 20% of Peruvians have at least “some” Chinese ancestry, but Wikipedia says that Chinese Peruvians make up 2-3% of the population. It is possible both are correct.

I do know many people who have grandparents born in Peru who were mixed Chinese / Native American / European descent. It seems considerable mixing occurred prior to 100 years ago.

Afro-Hispanics, the difference in the caste system in Latin America based on skin color and the inevitable never ending denial of African blood & self hate within (not all) but many of them.

I grew up around many Dominicans who mistook me for Hispanic and because of that would tell black “jokes” & trash black people for sport. Some were worse than real White Supremacists. By contrast, Panamanians never denied their Afro-roots and more or less blended in with blacks in the community at large.

Kiwi, now you are a broken record , you are worse than bigoted whites worried if white women have sex with other races…

Ive treated you with kid gloves about your constant tirade about Asian women dating white men , Brazil is too close to Hispanic women , you start this crap about Hispanic women , and next week it will be about Brazilian women , and my foot will be up your rear end….gtf out of here with that bs, and anyone else who wants to bring that crap…kiss my rear end, this gets ridiculous…

Dora The Explorer and how she teaches pre-schoolers. How this Nick Jr. show encourages diversity and teaches speaking spanish/english, counting, and other fun games to encourage learning. How a little brown girl with fun things in her magic backpack and how she makes learning fun while entertaining.

Too bad you want to beleive the hype…ive seen these schills for che…again , do the real research…

This guy tries to atribute his statements to his diaries….and that he changed….bs…in 59 , at the revolution, he said black people will get out if the revolution what they put in ….nothing….

This way after the diaries…another schill for che came up with the latest attemt to debunk that…its so lame I wont even go into it…then , later, he sais bad things about the congo communist troops…

Did that article mention, with all its praise of photos with African troops, that the communist Congo troops kicked him out?…did it say that? You really need to research this failure…his next stop was Bolívia ..he was a failure after he left the Cuban revolution, now known for the burdon on its people many decades of Castro dictatorships now attest to that reality…or do you need to see the racist health care pictures I brought in before?

And all his flowery phrases in his revolutionary reach out to follow black revolucionaríeis ? You are suckered in by that? You do know that Sea Hawkes owner , Sperling? Is that his name? You do know he got an award from the NAACP…haha … Did you know that? You know people dig out phrases Lincoln said that they say are racist…and he freed the slaves in America…and said noble things against slavery…but now we hear those phrases make him racist…we see him for what he was underneath…but you dont want to see that in your beloved che?

You think I didnt see this link? Dont be suckers…do the real research on this meglomaniac m who said racist things throughout his life…you just want to beleive the hype…you would condemn Lincoln, or this Sea Hawkes owner…but you so badly want to give this sob a break….too bad…dont be hypocriticle….Im glad I can see through this meglomaniac murderer racist…this is exactly what I mean about following some sobs political agenda right over a cliff….which many did with this chump…

This guys big point is , he only said things from the diaries that were racist

Yet, at the Cuban revolution, he said blacks will get out of the revolution what they put in….nothing…

He never was really for black rights , if it suited his communist agenda he was all for that…this is the classic case of the white boss , can take pictures with his black workers, makes comments out of the side of his mouth to sound good, and get converts…but , underneath , holds racist views…

This guy thinks he changed…yet he said racist things later….this guy missed that..he didnt mention Congo communist party troops kicked him out because he was too radicle…I saw that in the official Cuban made documentary of his life , with Castro chiming in frequent narration, straight from the horses mouth…

You dont find the truth rushing out to Google up some schill for this chump, who wont tell you the truth , the whole truth about it…

You cut this racist slack, and bend and twist in the wind to make it fit your love of che…..dont beleive the hype

Even though you are always disagreeing with me, I see you used the word “hypergamy” up above. It’s not a politically correct term, and it is a truth almost unknown outside of the “manosphere”. Good for you looking into it, even though it makes you guilty of crimethink. Actually, it’s not just Asians or Hispanics, but all women who deal with “hypergamy”…

However, let’s focus on “Hispanics”. As the name indicates, they generally have Spanish blood, though the amount varies. In other words, they are already mixed to some extent. If you see the power structure in Mexico, for instance, you will understand that the nearly 100% whites are at the top of that structure and the nearly 100% Indians are at the bottom. This is a pretty general trend that holds throughout Latin America (not always for each individual or to the same extent for every country). Why would anyone imagine it would somehow be different when Hispanics arrive in the U.S.? Why would anyone expect that this wouldn’t become a more pronounced trend as more Hispanics come to the U.S.?

I would like to see a post on how the influx of Hispanic immigrants has displaced African Americans and tensions between the Hispanic and African American communities. Will African Americans be better off after Hispanics become a majority in the U.S.?

Kiwi, there is no doubt you can find individuals who fit the description of what you are saying, but, to make like this is the norm , is a dangerous stereotype , and makes it too easy for people to start stigmatising any poc woman with a white man…which is your jist…no , I dont agree with a point of view like that woman you mentioned, but I just dont see it that often…and in truth, I dont condemn people for having affinities for differant cultures…as long as they dont put down their own ethnic backgrounds in the process…and , as I say, the women I have been with, who are poc , which has been many, dont do this…you push this like its standard, with a cindemning stugmatizing eye

Women in all races and intra racialy, marry up, look for men that are well off to try and be with, and men also try to marry up…this is normal inside all races….yet, women of color, going out with white men , get held up to some ridiculous standard that intra racial couples dont get called out on…and vice verca about men of color with white women…and white women get hit by white male racists for going out with poc men….I dont care who a white woman goes out with…you think because Im a white man. I have some vested interest in who a white women wants to see? Like I have some say in white womens destiny? I hardly could care less what the choice of any white woman could be…yet something really sticks in your craw about what you think Asian women should be doing….if you judge people by dating statistics, you will miss the boat big time

Latina women , would include South America, that includes Brazil, even though its not Hispanic , these antiinterracial sex accuasations are coming into my territory , and it will only bring bristle to the face of the person bringing it…

You dont get it Kiwi, all these pseudo psycho analisis about imigrantes coming in a country, trying to assume the culture, trying to marry someone of that culture and a differant race, and rejecting their country and race, could start to be hurled at me…and I see it for the shallow petty bs that it is ..no one is going to bring that dung heap of psuedo psycho analisis on me…it can kiss my rear end…

Stop bottom feeding , Kiwi….be careful of how you try to pack your round anecdotal experiance into the sqare hole of someone elses reality…I get real confrontational if that foul stench gets anywhere near me….and , most important to you is, you weakon your good points about racism against Asians by obsessing on anti interracial relationships trying to psycho analise the poc women and their dating motivations….I start losing respect for you and the good points because the bad points stink so much

I would like to see what Sigmond effing h Freud, or Fannon, or Dr Phil, or Ann Landers, or any two bit pseudo psycho analist , would try to analise me and my life dating habits and sexual orientation

By gosh, they would have a feild day, and could put a down payment on a Ferrari for the book deal they could get writing about me….and they can flush their diarréia of the mouth analisis right down the toilet…and kiss my rear end

Yeah, well , your statistics for black women with white men are the lowest, and that doesnt stop me…I dont think about it…I dont think about statistics when Im dating…

And , most races are with each other, so , the marrying up is more an intra racial thing than directed by white men in power…that is much less a factor for actual on the ground reality…which is more intra racial…

Superficial reasons for dating usualy have consequences for those who get together for superficial reasons

I sure dont care if you are obsessed so much on interracial dating, you bring up the past as though it dictates today in terms of personal dating choices….this is your hangup…you are stuck in it like a broken record…every thread gets tainted by you with this obsession….id rather talk about how bogus that thread brought in, that was written by a che schill , is…..you bring in this anti interracial sex crap in the Hispanic thread , and , I need to call you on trying to fit your round hole anecdotal experiances with my square hole reality….

Your post seems angry. There’s no need to launch into a two post emotional rant. Thank-you for the information on Che many liberal writers and idealists/defenders of Che omit; I appreciate it.

I asked you a question in a post above on Brazil. If you ever have the time I’d like your insight on it.

Why are you so passionate about your dislike for Che? If you don’t mind me asking. Does it stem from a hatred of communism? If so, do you feel as strongly about far right capitalism? I myself am against communism, I think it’s an ideology born from the intent to correct the various issues that come from unbridled capitalism. But it’s an over-corrective measure. It demands equality to such an extreme it’s ultimately a product cut from the same cloth that hyper-capitalism is cut from, opposing democracy. With that said, Cuba, the UK and Canada have had better healthcare systems than the US for a long time now, but they’re often accused of being wicked socialist systems. What are your views on these systems and the newly formed Obamacare US system for the poor and for those who lose to the gamble of being covered by insurance companies where the priority is about not having to dish out any money, finding any possible loophole, by any means necessary?

Ebonymonroe , my anger is not addressed at you…Im sorry if you missed my answer about Brazil, it should be above , unless it was deleted and I dont know about it…if you cant find it, id be happy to answer again…let me know…

First , yes , I hate hyper capitalism as much as communism…I never would hold USA health care up as any example…Im all for Obama care…I dont know what the republican objections are…Im all for usa health care reform…and Im all for social programs, Im not against socialism if it isnt militant against capitalism

We always hear about the noble Cuban health care system , but, I found pictures and testimony of racism in that system and horrible conditions

Brazil has a social health care system called SUS…unfortunatly, there are regular reports of abuses and bad conditions…old sick people being kept in hospital hallways while they suffer…I could have to go to the hospital at some soon time and the thought is scary…you could pass through Brazil , have an accident and have no problem…but , on a regular basis, I see frightening things about the public social health care…you need prosperity and investment to make it work…the pictures I saw about Cuba , remended me if some of the Brazil reports…

Angry about che and communism? Yes I am, and I learned how to be angry about it living in Brazil, where there are some people who beleive in it, and , their lies, half truths , denials about the truth, and rhetorical dogma permeates the political diologue and false resentments against the USA, unwilling to look at the truth of the cold war, and carrying it big time into today…Chavez of Venezuela is a perfect example , raging against the USA , calling it imperialistic , while aiding and abbetting the Colômbia Marxist revolution group , Farc, while Farc also is hooked up with huge Brazilian drug gangs, flooding the Brazilian market with coke and crack, turning Brazil into the biggest crack cocaine user on the planet…all the while , Chavez is playing footsie with Castro…trying to get the Americas to welcome this horrible dictator into the fold…

While Chavez did all this, he tanked his country, an oil rich country, the infrastructure has tanked, there are food rations, Caracas is one of the most violent cities in the world , all the while touting his Marxist light socialism that considers USA capitalism the enemy…and doing big oil business with the USA…

Ebonymonroe , these issues have been in my face for nearly 3 decades, so, I am very urgent about these discusions with answers on the tip of my tongue , because I deal with it on a daily basis…not that Brazilian people are confrontational, but, I get to see the inner diologue, and the political agendas of some Brazilians who really beleive in this , up close…so it may seem angry at commenters here, but it is more about my urgent responce…and , if people defend che , then my urgency will be directed at their comments

You are not hearing Fox news talking points from me, you are hearing my opinion based on close to thirtyyears of up close and personal with people who beleive in marxism….I hate hyper capitalism and Fox news mentality as much…

Please scroll up for my responce about Brazil, if you cant find it, Ill be happy to answer again

Also , Ebonymonroe , Im sorry if I deemed angry at you, I wasnt, ive been going through the same debates about Che on here, with the same people from various threads, ive been bringing in solid links to back what Im saying up , and , its like it doesnt matter, and its ignored and the same false dogmas get continued, Im just repeating myself over for the third time on the blog, and that generates an urgent impaitence on my part…its not meant for you personaly, or Mary

–Frente Sandinista de Liberacion Nacional (FSLN, Sandinista party/guerrillas in Nicaragua, most prominent in the ’70s and ’80s, now returned to power)

–Liberation Theology is a broad topic. Look to particular practitioners, like Oscar Romero, Ernesto Cardenal, and Ignacio Martin-Baro. Also look at some of the CELAM regional gatherings (Latin American episcopal conference of bishops) that held important meetings in 1968 [Medillin] and 1979 [Puebla], founded in Rio de Janeiro in 1955).

–Look at some of the socially conscious encyclicals from John XXIII, John Paul II and others, e.g. RERUM NOVARUM(1891), GAUDIUM ET SPES (1962-65, product of Vatican II), MATER ET MAGISTRA(1961), and PACEM IM TERRIS(1963) used to justify Liberation Theology.

–Mara Salvatrucha/MS-13, which has been imported to Southern California along with the burritos and pupusas.

–Japanese immigration to Peru and elsewhere on the South American Pacific Rim.

–Read Margaret Randall’s oral history SANDINO’S DAUGHTERS about Nicaraguan women during the Sandinista revolution, many of them commanding officers for the FSLN rebels and later the Nicaraguan military. If you have time, there’s a sequel, SANDINO’S DAUGHTERS REVISIITED, about some of the same women (and some others) when the centrist/conservative bloc returned to power in 1990.

–Junot Diaz

–Gloria Anzaldua and her book BORDERLANDS/LA FRONTERA

–Garifuna, Miskito and other indigenous peoples of Central America’s Atlantic Coast, heavily influenced by the Caribbean and British settlement, where English is the European language of choice instead of Spanish. Also where most of Central America’s Black population lives.

–Bracero program during WWII.

–Development of criollo identity (2nd- and 3rd-generation Spanish immigrants to the Americas, people who never returned to Spain in the 16th/17th century).

–Slavery in Ecuador

— Jaime & Gilbert Hernandez, cartoonist brothers from Oxnard, CA who publish their comics together in volumes called LOVE & ROCKETS. I prefer Jaime’s stories about Hopey and Maggie over Gilbert’s legends of Luba and Palomar, but you might see them differently.

–Nueva Cancion movement (primarily South American musical movement/genre in the ’60s and ’70s of politically-influenced and -influential music from the Left)

–Victor Jara (martyred leftist singer-songwriter from Chile, writer of many famous left-wing songs in Spanish)

–Violetta Parra (leftist singer-songwriter from Chile who committed suicide before she could be assassinated, writer of “Gracias A La Vida”, one of the most beautiful songs ever written, among others).

I’m apologise if I misinterpreted the tone of your post. I understand. I have responded much the same when Lincoln is held up as a hero of emancipation. Thanks very much for the info on Brazil and race. I’m also against over-corrective measure to supposedly curb the flaw of far right capitalism, communism and socialism just takes a lack of democracy and cures it with an even greater, less subtle lack of democracy.

@BR & Kiwi

I think Black women are projected on two extremes: de$exualised or hyper$exualised. Essentially, a grandmother or a wh0re, although things seem to be slowly changing in the US media, to extent. What’s interesting, however, is that Black British women are represented with a fraction of the exposure African American are. It’s similar with Black British men. But despite this, interracial marriages make a huge percentage in the Black community over here, with 50% of Black British men and over 30% of Black British women marrying interracially. So much so that the mixed race category was added to the census and has become a huge community in and of itself. Perhaps that’s a signal of the power of “smear campaigns” projecting a people group in a detrimental light. Perhaps no representation is better than bad representation. Lol.

Funny how a man who died in 1967 can still be a sore point to some one in 2014 as if that man was still alive, unless, naturally that man is someone who drank his anti-communism and racism in mothers milk.

BR, if you accuse Che Guevara being a racist I think you should take a good look at yourself. You acting up like a Lawrence of Arabiaoj Jazz is almost comical sometimes, knowing better than brazilians what Brazil is all about, knowing jazz better than black musicians, knowing black women better than they themselves, knowing commies better than commies themselves and most of all: your quite open sexualisation of women of other races. Including very very young women in some threads.

I understand that you hate commies and Che particulary, because in Latin America he still is a symbol of hope and change for so many poor and down throdden. In your book no one should even try to help the poor. I understand that you dislike Che because he was a astmathic doctor who did what he said, unlike so many other demagogues. Che Guevara was flawed man, a man living in his times, but compared to most white men living in Latin America, he really did what he preached: he fought against dictators, and he also, before he became the commie terror you so much hate, worked for free in a health clinic in Amazonas open and free to all indians and poor alike. But that is of course all wrong and racist in your eyes. White men, even white latin men, should be sitting down and watch the native women dance for them for their pleasure, right?

Che Guevara tried and reached people all over the world, calling for a revolution against the powers to be. He was a commie. He did not like what he saw in under developed countries, he did not like big multinational companies killing natives anywhere, and he did not like colonisation of Africa. He inspired many a africans and latin americans to stand up for their rights in their own countries. But I guess that is terrible and so wrong. You have better ideas for nativies, right? Natives and black women particulary should be dancing for your pleasure their “sensual” dances, right? Not think about social injustice.

Unfortunately you veiled racism and misogynism slips many times unnoticed over here, some have pointed them out from time to time, but many do not see them. That is because your “honey tongued” approach them. You like to sweet talk to these younger black females here and present yourself as a some one who knows something about something, but, despite the fact that you have been living in Brazil for decades now, your knowledge of Latin America is extremely flimsy and haphazard. Your knowledge about communism is even funnier. It is straight from the cold war hand book from the 50’s and 60’s.

And that is funny.

But when you accuse someone, be that Che or any other individual, of being a racist, check out yourself. Yes, there he is, good ole yankee staring at yourself in the mirror with good ole values intact. Racism included. You just deny it.

Lets get it straight, where in Hades do you get off making any comment about what I have to say about jazz , when you know absolutly squat about it? For you to have any referance if I have any credibilty about what Im saying about jazz , you have to know something about it , and you know nothing…you sound like a dumbell…you shouldnt flap your lips in ignorance

Know more about Brazilians about Brazil? Oh so I cant have a disagreements with a Brazilian ? Or maybe because I am a profesional musician, I might know more about the history of Brazilian music than the average Brazilian?

Where is your logic coming from,? Look, anal opening, Im sick of crap like you with you blatent anti Ametican ignorance trying to call me a racist, or sexualsing women…look a hole…bring up any words I have said…just effing bring it , chump….find it , Im happy to discuss it , just dont pull this crap out of your rear end…just bring up INE racist comment…or one sexualsing comment

Your the one who thinks shaved public hair on a women is implicating young boys…you are perverse…where do you get off judging me?

Like Im uptight about commies? Ive had to watch one year of ridiculous young people dressing in che tee shirts, rioting and breaking things real people need and use…and , in the end m these commie red flag anarchists killed a reporter, and list any public support they so badly hoped to win

I dont care about the poor?Your ignorance and personal atracks are ridiculous , and demonstrate how weak you are about knowing me ir South america…oh yeah you really know…you know squat…I handled you your head on a platters about Hugo Chavez, you dont know anything, I brought in direct factual links hooking Chavez up with Farc and Farc up with giant Brazilian drug gangs…spare me

Che and marxism have done way more to hurt humanity than just about anything…more than 100 million have died under communism…its caused more death and destruction to poor people

Only a sucker thinks the Cubans were helping Africa and not just schiling for the Soviet Union to come into the fold for the Soviet bloc

You are absolutly not qualified to judge whether Im a racist or not…really , punk, bring it…bring in one statement , bring in one sexualising statement…you think you can just throw crap out like that and it has validity? I dont cow tow to western notions of psycho analising sexuality, which you are blatently a slave to…maybe you are just envious

And your patronising crack at like I just want women to dance for me shows a gigantic ignorance…you have no idea…you pompous poser …I fight for afro diasporic culture in the deep trenches of trying to get it presented, and it is a serious battle against obstacles and the real cultural racism that is underneath most of what we call racism in the first place…your ignorance of real Afro diasporic culture means you absolutly could do more damage than help

Just bring it , chump…you made some real blatent accuasations, back it up, prick

You know , this mfer, Sam , just made a series of unprovoked personal attacks on my charactor, calling me racist , like Im sexualising young girls…like Im lording over everyone about jazz

Jazz, geese, black American history isnt jazz, but everything about jazz is black American history…its a treasure trove of genius contributions to the foundation of American cultural expresion from the past, and incredible stories of black men and women fighting against the real serious obstacles , in a time that that oppresion was the heavyest since slavery…people now have no idea the oppresion black jazz artists experianced, its fillet mignon for anyone looking for historicle significance of racism in America against black Americans…it is the template of white America copying black American culture, and comercialising it as white American culture

Sam gets out of joint because I make many of his points look ridiculous, because he jumps on some of the more ridiculous anti American crap…ive shut him down various times…and , his only solution is to falsely attack me personaly, try to call me a racist, try to imply negative things about my sexuality, or imply I dont care about poor people

Che was a failure, he led many people over a cliff, for sure , many in Brazil were inspired by him , and they made horrible desicians in their lives, that led them over a cliff…they didnt help anybody…they didnt help black Brazilians, most were white…communism doesnt address racism

The Congo communists kicked che out, he then went to his death in Bolívia…the Congo was the country he participanted in , and was a failure

Cuba had a population of about 12 million back then…smaller than a big city…it was run by a horrible dictator , with big máfia support…no wonder the population of Cuba went for it…then got saddled with five decades of castro …che became a meglomaniac , with the smell of blood in his nostrils, he murderer 150 people once with no trial…he was an sob

Just bring a racist statement ive made Monroe, you are dragging that out of your rear end…just bring one racist statement ive said…you are so sexualy uptight , that you mix that up with racism…have your little world of uptight sexuality , Monroe, thank god Im a long way away from it…thank god where I live and for South beach

He’ll fight for Black women shaking their rears nude, but as soon as I asked him why he didn’t wear a thong and practise what he preaches, he’s quick to say “I can’t, because the hyper-masculinity of Brazilian male culture. They’ll laugh at me.” He’ll fight “deep in the trenches for Black and Brown women, but not when it comes to him.” And when a sista points this out, he says we’re not authentic Black women, we’re Westernised. Because of course, our natural state is twerking nude. And BR’s our White saviour, here to fight deep in the trenches for our natural state.

You have the apology you want in the comment policy thread BR. But it’s most certainly an apology for something I did not say. By the way, you owe me several apologies, along with other Black female commenters here you patronised and insulted in the Yonce thread. Despite this, you’ve never taken the time to apologise. I’ve shown you the respect you don’t deserve.

You can be a black woman and westernised, Monroe…Im definitly not your savior, …black women arnt a monolithic, and I will stand up to uptight people who try to peg black women who do want to express their culture, which you clearly do…so , I dont care if you are white or black or green , I will defend and fight for black women being able to express their culture…and there sure are obstacles

Whether I wear a thong or not is a pretty strange argument on your part..women wear string bikinis very comfortably in brazil

Look at you confirming again. Black culture is twerkin in the nude, BR campaigns for nudist Black female dancers because he says it’s natural but won’t go to the beach in a thong himself. BR barks at Black women generally discussing more balance to their images because this . . .. offends him and it’s what set him off on a long patronising venting session on what authentic Black womanhood is. You’re uptight about s-xuality, you’re only loose about Black female s-xploitation. You’re not consistent. And you’re a racist fetishist misogynist. Look at you telling Kiwi to get laid. Because that’s all women of colour are to you.

Monroe, if you are calling me a racist mysiginist, that is no apology…where did I cut down the Ohio players or Prince…but , do you have any idea of the contribution of John Coltrane? Do you have any idea what he means at all?

I brought in plenty of vídeos of black women and girls dancing in Brazil, its accepted and Baile Funk is a national recognised idiom practiced by all, get over your petty judgement, the clipes I brought in are played on prime time

When you go deeper in the culture , Monroe, and really learn the fundimental principles and concepts, its not copying, you wouldnt sat Wyntin Marsalis is copying clássica, music, he has paid the price to really get it and understand it, and so have I, this much deeper than apropriating culture and copying it…you have no idea…you have no idea how many afro diasporic cultures I have researched in depth and mastered , to really get the message and concepts that are the Afro diasporic cultures…therefor your opinion is moot

If you think mima racist mysiginist , you are full of it , Monroe…I did apologise on the yonci thread…you got that site thing mixed up, I guess you didnt listen to what i said

Don’t give me that. You said twerkin was a traditional historic Black dance, so don’t talk to me about comtemporary dances. I’m currently copying and pasting every insulting racist thing you’ve said and I will lay it out right here.

You got it analy backwards , Monroe….I never claimed what authentic black womenhood is…never, I work with black dancers who express authentic black culture, culture that offends your sensibilities…go ahead and be offended, but I will defend these womens right to express themselves

I dont respect your judgement of twerking…the jury is still out on how I feel , but the more I think of it the more I think there is no problem with the dance , you are just up tight

Come off the fake attemting to portray me as someone saying black women have to be expressing afro diasporic culture , and that is the standard , that is your little petty distortion…I will defend black women I know and work with who express afro diasporic culture , that can also include near nude dancing…its your hang up if you dont get it , I cant baby you along to get it , either you get it or are uptight about it

I did not say twerking itself was traditional black dance, its a new dance that comes from a history of black dances in the afro diaspora that have similar moves

I took you on a tour of various African countries showing dances with similar moves…I showed you baile funk , whichnis a new dance in Brazil , but , came before twerking…its all parralel…you dont get it…I cant beleive your ignorance on the subject , Monroe…I handled it to you on a platter , with a huge amount of links..

I suggest a post on the hot afro Hispanic dances , the mambo, rumba, timba, chá chá chá, meringue , and how hot these dances are with hi shaking , and some were banned

Thank god I live in a country that has these sensual afro Brazilian dances…thank the living god I am far from mentalities like yourself , Monroe…

Hey bring your effing proof I made a racist statement here, just bring it or close your trap

You are absolutly not qualified to judge whether Im a racist or not…really , punk, bring it…bring in one statement , bring in one sexualising statement…you think you can just throw crap out like that and it has validity?
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Ebony said
I still can’t get over how Beyonce has 9-11 year old little Black (Afro Latina) girls twerking and butt clapping in her “Blu” music video. (A song dedicated to her toddler aged daughter). I cannot stomach someone who promotes the s-xualization of children. Her fashion label already had to pull a campaign a few years back due to complaints because she had little girls in makeup, dresses and high heels, and the public felt she was s-xualizing little girls. But flash forward a few years and now this. I think it’s telling how the public were disgusted over 21 year old Miley Cyrus, but when it’s little brown girls, the critics labelled it “art.”
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BR said

Since Im really at odds with many trends being put out on this blog lately, why be false now…at least you will know im honest

We are in differant worlds…Im in a differasnt world than you all…and beam me up Scotty this planet suks

Right now, we are in a heat wave and the beach is just rolling big time, and where I live , that means booty booty and more naked booty, booty of all shapes sizes and colors, petit booty , bubble butt booty , happy booty, old booty, young booty…all female booty…steroid booty

and its heaven…its pure heaven

i get to see incredible booty passing inches from my nose, and its totaly acceptable in this society, not looked down on, and natural…and it promotes incredible well being…i respect so much these women for being free and sensual, and to the country Brazil, for just being advanced in sensuality

and yes, we just got a lead on a passisata, a bare booty samba dancer that we hope to book with us…bare booty hip shaking , hotter than twerking, samba dancer…i cant wait

I have so much respect for afro diasporic culture and the natural sensuality and grace it has incorporated over several thousands of years

I dont have room anymore for uptight political agendas that start railroading sensuality into some false pshycho analysys of what sexual exploitation is or what “sexualising ” is, if Brazil is a sexualised country in anybodies eyes, then I am eternaly grateful for living 28 years in a sexualised country

buying into psycho analysys of what is sexual objectifying is just buying into western values…religion has messed us all up beyond repair in the west and middle east…i wont buy into one ounce of it

we are just in differant worlds, and i wouldnt trade my world for this uptight world i see on here, for anything
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Ebony said
Do you wear a thong on the beach?
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BR said

i would love to have worn the thong for men, i have pictures of me in a speedo at 48 that i looked real good, now i dont dont think id flatter it. When i first got to Brazil , i got out of some fasion mens catalougue, skimpy mens swim wear, i have always prided my physical apearance and after spraining my ankle in my prefered sport of youth, basketball and couldnt play after the first year in college, i started swimiming heavily and got into body surfing when i finily left the north east urban cold of new york and chicago, and got to brazil

i wore it a couple of times on the beach, but noticed once that when a foreighner walked down the beach,in a thong bikini, as he passed crowds of men, great laughter passed, so, here is a case where social preasure pursuaded me not to pursue skimpy mens swim wear, which proves my beach points, nothing to do with twerking. Women fell preasure to not wear thong bikinis, exactly the way i did. i would love nothing more than to prance around women in string bikinis with mine on
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BR said

Right now, we are in a heat wave and the beach is just rolling big time, and where I live , that means booty booty and more naked booty, booty of all shapes sizes and colors, petit booty , bubble butt booty , happy booty, old booty,

But when asked if he does he says

i would love to have worn the thong for men, i have pictures of me in a speedo at 48 that i looked real good, now i dont dont think id flatter it.
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Ebony said

If you’re so intent on liberation, why don’t you disregard how people respond and live what you preach by wearing a thong yourself? Why would you protest for women over and over, and live for it, but sit back when it comes to your own nudity?

Isn’t that hypocrisy?
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BR skips the question and avoids the issue of his hypocrisy.
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Ebony said

No disrespect, but it doesn’t matter how many Black vag¡nas you’ve been in, you don’t get to have a say in how WE AS BLACK WOMEN feel about our representations, BECAUSE YOU’RE NOT A BLACK WOMAN! You can go on and on about your love affair for “free jungle a55,” as a White man . . . Oh, I’m sorry, I mean “African culture,” and patronise us by telling us that all our opinions (which we are entitled to as human beings) all come from political agendas, such as Black militant rhetoric, or feminist propaganda, standing in the way of you getting your fill of the Black female body for your enjoyment. But you do not get to do it without us being fully aware of you patronising us. This is why cats are getting annoyed with you.
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BR said
you sure dont represent black Brazilian women..you cant speak for them, you dont understand their culture..yeah we are going to talk culture…becuase you are ripping it down by stomping on some women or girsl shaking their booties , like its something bad.

Lady, you dont know your culture, you tell me the example of black culture in an england is black music was in style…so pop music is your example of black culter? that is as good as you can do? to understand black Afro diasporic culture? that is lame..you are a pop culturist
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BR skips the fact we’re talking about an American artists, BR is annoyed that Black women and men didn’t like little Black girls turned around bent over jiggling their bottoms into the camera. Because of this, he tells me I don’t know my culture. Because this is Blackness to BR
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BR said
Black women exploiting? Prove it…im in the deep struggle to fight for black women and their culture in Brazil..just because you are uptight about naked booty shaking in black culture ,
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BR will fight for nude Black girl and woman dancers but will not wear a thong himself.
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BR said
your little uptight speech about your resentment because I have sex with black women , just tells me how low and petty people can get when it comes to a white man having sex with a black woman… just get in line

and your petty judgement will have no affect on whether I will have sex with a black woman in the future ,

on here does not represent reality or the “black voice” at all
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The Black women and men speaking are Black voices but BR dismisses us. We don’t have a valid voice, we don’t know out culture.
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BR said

Isnt it interesting, I write a post , about all the booty rolling around me, and how Im going to be exited hiring a black Brazilian passista who will wear the traditional costume that reveals her booty and there is hip shaking.. how weak and lame can you get…the right fear mongers, the left guilt trips back off my sex life, its none of your business

yeah, when people hide behind political agendas to start attacking peoples sex lives, that is when you know the political agenda has turned weak

militant feminism also stepped way over the line , and took sensuality right out of womens natural right , they paid a big price for it too
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Ebony said

What arrogance on your part to say Black women can’t desire more balance in our representations. Who do you think you are? Why can’t we ask for more than just the two, 1. the Black mammy and 2. the Black jezebel? You’re not a Black woman, so please don’t toot your horn on what you do for us. You’re like every other White person when it comes to Black culture, you only get excited by the sensational and diregard the soul and humanity of our culture. As far as England we’ve had a long history of British reggae, Raga, and Lover’s rock. We produced acts like Soul to Soul, Omar, Shola Ama, and Sade came out over here. We’ve also had a long history of Black British Jazz like the music you hear from Jamiroquai, that sound is from the Black British Jazz movement.
I don’t know about my culture? NO YOU DIDN’T BECAUSE ALL BLACK CULTURE IS TO YOU IS BOOTY SHAKING! We’re a diaspora, and we have had thriving cultures from the Caribbean, to Africa, to North America and South America, since we got here. England was celebrating Blues artists like Howlin Wolf back when North America called it “race music that couldn’t be played.” Do you know why I know that and you don’t? Because I’m a Black woman and my culture extends beyond booty shaking to me.

I’m not a prude, our culture never has been, and Black women have celebrated s-xually expressive entertainers like Janet Jackson, Vanity 6, and TLC, since forever, all acts who had a heavy emphasis on female s-xuality and expression. We just often feel there is a difference between a woman like Janet, who went from discussing . . .

*adulthood, womanhood, self sufficiency, and independence with “Control.”
* To the social climate of America and political consciousness and awareness with “Rhythm nation.”
*To s-xuality and romance with “Janet.”
*To depression and self loathing and making a correlation between that and S&M, using s-xual pleasure and pain as a metaphor for despair with “The velvet rope.”

Because she was presented as a full human being: intellectually, spiritually, emotionally, as well as s-xually, we celebrated with her. Because we are Black people who live in our skin, we experience our treatment and the boxes put around us, so we know when a Black artist is conforming to treatment we fight against, just sell records, and not being “empowered” as they claim. And even if that’s not the case, we have a right to have different opinions and to express them without some White guy who loves getting off on the Black female body, dictating to us what opinions we are allowed to have.

How dare I take the liberty to express an issue I take with 9-11 year old little Black girls twerking s-xually in hot pants in a music video? BR if you have to ask, you don’t deserve an answer. I don’t care about your s-x life. The reason why I brought it up is because you have taken every conversation about Black women’s hypers-xual depictions in the media, and conversations about having healthy, thriving relationships between Black people and non Black people in a White supremacist society, and turned it into an attack on your s-x life
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BR said

Pretty much everything you stated is pop culturist because they shake their hips and are naked? this country said its ok for me to be on the beach and look at booty, you dont own their booties…they give me the right, and I respect them so much for that, because, I dont want to touch them or even talk to them or know them, I am just blessed to be in a country that sais it is a public space and its ok for people to be almost naked..and the women like it and want it and the men respect it
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Ebony posts recent survey

I Don’t Deserve To Be Raped’ Protest Goes Viral In Brazil

The online campaign has spread after survey finds over 65 per cent of Brazilians think women dressed provocatively deserve to be attacked
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BR says
You should compare pictures of Josephine Baker There are serious and important lincs that can be made through out the Afro diaspora…talk is cheap, words are hollow talking about this…You either really know it and the value , or you dont and you are just saying words and rhetoric you have read

because what is disturbing is, these militant political agendas, whether feminin, black, white racist kkk, those are militant political agendas also, marxist all of them..the militant black feminists, Afro diasporic drum dance culture does have a serious deep represion , for being too sexual its amazing to see people doing it on here…they dont see the cycle they are repeating, and use intellectual western pshycho analysis terms to describe how to feel about a culture did you know you cant write the traditional jazz ride cymbal beat on classical music rhythm notation?

That’s the thing BR, this has nothing to do with ballet or Brazilian dance, this discussion was about Beyonce’s lack of balance in the way she depicts herself, and using children to dance a dance that is about s-xually enticing viewers, which is 100% wrong because children should not be s-xualized.

If you really feel the way you say you do, about walking around half nude being the ultimate example of liberty, I sure do hope you’re not hypocritical and are in fact also wearing a thong on the beach. across our different homes as a diaspora have the right to be expressed, and our fully rounded palate, fully represented, in our depictions in film, music videos, print, and every other forum, just as White women are shown ranging from all their different ways and worth, and not one narrative, unlike Black women who are either “Precious,” and “The help,” or Halle Berry in “Monster’s ball.” If that offends you, you’re a part of the problem, but when you begin shooting down our right to speak about it whenever we choose, you become a very obvious part of our oppression, and for your gain, for your entertainment as a man, under the guise of culture preservation, to salivate and exploit and get off on.
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BR said

you are rhetoric and no substance…once again, you try to make like im telling you how to think, cut it out..dont play that and then hide behind some black political rhetoric,when you are just ranking on black cultural expression go run what you are saying on a bunch of Brazilian passistas
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Ebony said

Baker was made to perform in a banana skirt half naked, while Blacks celebrate her artistic progression, we see the banana skirt and know why White wanted her to perform in it. But as a White man, of course that part goes over your head.
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Kiwi comes in

Wow! I didn’t know B. R. had jungle fever. But then that’s no surprise. Many more white men have yellow fever. It’s disgusting how dirty, creepy, and fetishistic white men reduce nonwhite women to sexual objects. Then they have the nerve to call it “respecting our culture”. Eew!
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BR said

oh and here is Kiwi, who understands nothing of the culture im dealing with you are all rhetoric and no substance, Monroe

what do you know about black dance? the history of it …about dance?

because you talk like you are an expert on it.. the early black feminist movement did speak out about black men with white women, I brought it in in a link…you were wrong about that…the black feminist movement planted some anti interracial sex seeds
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Ebony says

Oh pulease, Black feminism is not a religion with a specific doctrine, there are hundreds (if not more) Black feminist ideologies. You think I as a 23 year old woman am unable to make up my own mind about myself, the world around me and how it relates to me and my community?

You really think nothing of us POC don’t you BR. We’re stupid people and you’ve got us all figured out. You can generalise us, psychoanalyse us, tell us about the roots of our thoughts, our lives, you even know more about Black British culture than I do apparently. You show your true colours with every post.
Yes of course a Black woman dancing topless in a banana skirt is rhetoric not fact, and my opinion on it is not my opinion, I’m a stupid little Black puppet who hasn’t studied Black music and dance, as a girl who grew up as a vocalist, choreographer and former model from the age of 9, I’m just a stupid little Black girl who knows nothing about herself. Thank-you for putting me in my place mister White man
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BR says
Good, that is why I want to find out why you are uptight about what Beyonce is doing

excuse me, constantly, I actualy like Beyonce, I liked both clips..Im not telling you how to think, but, I really dont agree with these s*xualy uptight cultural opinions
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BR WILL LATER GO ON TO SAY HE NEVER USED THE WORD S*XUAL WHEN REFERING TO THE BEYONCE VIDEO WHERE LITTLE GIRLS ARE TWERKIN. BUT HERE HE DOES.

HE WILL ALSO GO ON TO SAY I AM NOTHING BUT A A POP CULTURALIST ALTHOUGH I NEVER STATE ALL OF MY MUSICAL INTERESTS. HE DOES THIS WHILE DEFENDING BEYONCE WHO IS A POP ARTIST.

And , just point out what was racist , Monroe…you twist things ive said, Im not telling you how to think and how to act, its you making the judgement..Im defending the right of black women I know and work with , and women and girls , to have the right to express themselves how they want without you looking over their shoulder and trying to bogard them into your narrow understanding

So where is the racist remark?

I honestly dont know whether to take Afro Brazilian culture and call it your culture…after debate on here , i dont know if I should say to anyone black , that jazz is your culture, if people dont embrace it , recognise it, regect it , maybe it is a mistake to say its your culture…I dont know…hearing the outright regections and dissmissles is very revealing…that could be a mistake on my part…it w meant as a compliment, but, people who have no desire to embrace culture shouldnt be identified with it…I dont identify with Bach

And , if the VMA is any indication of where we are headed , no ,twerking isnt going to be put down , its only growing

You know , this blog had threads reffering to booty, plenty, and we used to talk with no problem…I use booty in that context, what this blog used to roll…I wont accept being called racist for using booty and my admiration for it…only uptight people try to make that lable

I worked with Loius Falco on the movie Fame with the dancers on there..in his regular classes, when you entered the whole room, direct on the left is a co ed naked dressing room
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Ebony says

When you worked on fame you should have worked on them not making the only Black lead an illiterate character with behaviour problems, and the only Black female lead the one who falls prey to a s-xual predator.
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BR says

where do you start getting off labeling natural dance movements found in various cultures as sexualising ? you all dont have the sensuality in your lives and that is exactly why the frustration flows through your diologue..then you hide behind political rhetoric, and, its cowardly of you to bring this down to some black and white issue and who I have sex with…because I like Beyonce…
that is weak children walk around on the beach here with everyone in all ages in bikinis, some near naked…

who is to judge what s*xualising is? im deeply questioning that…and dont hide it behind a black political agenda… many things were good in black political agendas, ..this is more of an independent psycho analysing what is s*xualising…and , I dont trust the judgement going down here…

they think its because Im a white man I cant relate …but, its because I know dances that use nudity and intence pelvic thrusts are from black people ,

people should just know this exists before they start passing judgement and condemn things as s*xualised

i dont trust peoples s*xual experiance judgements on here at all..there is a huge amount of naiveness…(not talking about you, Sharina, as a married woman)
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BR WILL CONTINUE TO MAKE ASSUMPTIONS AND DISSCREDIT ME BECAUSE OF HIS ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT MY S*X LIFE. I’VE NEVER MENTIONED IT. BUT HE WILL ATTACK MY RIGHT TO A VOICE ON THE CHILDREN OF MY ETHNICITY IN MAINSTREAM MEDIA BASED ON MY S*XUAL ACTIVITY.
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Ebony said

NEVER HAD A THING TO DO WITH BRAZIL! Do you not understand? In the music video for “Blu,” Beyonce has little girls twerkin; twerkin is a s*xual dance in the Western world, it’s not a dance for children. Both Black men and women have taken issue with this in the video, though mainstream White America hasn’t. But they had a problem with Miley Cyrus even though she’s a woman, because she’s White, but when it’s 9-11 yr old Black girls, they don’t care. We do, we have a right to, they’re the kids of our race. Beyonce is from North America, she knows exactly how twerkin is defined in Western Black culture, and so she would know it’s not right to have little children doing that dance, in our community.

Maybe you can also work on understanding the significance of Josephine Baker dancing in a banana skirt before you throw her in as an example of Black s-xual liberty vs racist exploitation next time. Post after post, you have assumed and made yourself look ignorant, while trying painfully to your knowledge of the culture of a race that isn’t your own. Along with this you have made yourself look like the ultimate White man by assuming where all of us as POC grew our points of view from, because we all look alike, sound and think alike. He says it has nothing to do with s-x and then alludes to there being a need for s-xual experience to understand. I was a psychology student and there has been great evidence on how the over s-xualised images of women lead to young men having difficulty in how they view women. There’s also evidence that proves the depictions of African Americans cause people to have negative views towards them. There was a study done that showed Black children end up with the lowest self esteem after watching TV for a prolonged period of time, while White children have elevated self esteem. Why? Because the differences in the balance of their depictions are fully rounded people. So Black women deal with the images of them as Blacks, and the double whammy of being female. You have no understanding of the narrative of Black women that has played out about Black women since the slave trade. You have no understanding of how closely the depictions of Black women still resemble the ideologies of that time, that’s why you used Josephine Baker as an example but didn’t know the significance of her wearing a banana skirt. You probably also don’t know much of her dancing was done in the spirit of making fun of herself for her White audience. That’s why she danced with her back hunched, not arched, to look primitive and silly, but she did it to put money on the table. But you wouldn’t know the story, the humanity, and the hesitancy she felt behind the scenes, because all you see as a White man is her nude body.
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Kiwi said

What B. R. is committing is in the same vein as cultural appropriation. It’s that phenomenon where a white man like Elvis or Eminem adopts “black culture” and becomes rich and famous off the backs of generations of blacks who actually lived and breathed it as a part of their everyday lives. It’s also that phenomenon where a white man like Tom Cruise goes to Asia, kills the men, beds the women, and becomes the expert on “Asian culture” (last samurai).
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BR says Yes , Monroe, a person needs sexual experiance, more than your 23 years, before Im going to trust them to define “s*xualising”. All you are doing is confirming you studied western oriented psychology . Yeah, media is the problem, always dismissing, destroying and burying the essences of black culture.

All your studies fly in the face of everyones life style here in Brazil, yes, Brazil has a lot to do with it, because you are superimposing your limited idea of what “s*xualising” is , over a music video with a dance ethic. The fact a country like Brazil exists , shows people can be exposed to huge amounts of sensuality, nudity, dances that have huge amounts of pelvic thrusts and dances with bare booties , that are high art…and people dont get any worse..
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LATER ON I (EBONY) POST INFORMATION ON THE HUGE GROWING PROBLEM OF S*X TRAFFICKING BY FORCE AND CHILD S*X TRAFFICKING IN BRAZIL BECAUSE OF THE FETISHIZED CULTURE. ABAGOND WILL BRING IN A POST BY ANA A BRAZILIAN WOMAN ON HOW BRAZILIAN WOMEN ARE FETISHIZED. BR WILL DISMISS ANA BECAUSE SHE IS NOT AUTHENTICALLY BLACK TO HIM BECAUSE SHE LIKES ROCK MUSIC. HER VOICE DOESN’T COUNT.
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BR says

Twerking should be brought out in the open and respected as a black American dance , it should be featured on tv shows with the high leval practicioners demonstrated and their names brought out…that is what should be done

I let you run this uptight thing about dancing you deam sesualising…you are a dancere and are uptight about pelvic thrusts?
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TWERKIN IS A DANCE WHERE WOMEN JIGGLE, BOUNCE AND CLAP THEIR BOTTOMS TOGETHER, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PELVIC THRUSTS. IT’S A CONTEMPORARY STRIP CLUB DANCE. BR WILL INSIST IT’S AN ACIENT AFRICAN DANCE. LATER ON, LINDA WILL PROVE IT’S NOT. THE MAPOUKA IN FACT IS AN TRADITIONAL AFRICAN DANCE THAT WAS TAKEN RECENTLY AND TURNED INTO A STRIP CLUB, POP CULTURE, RAUNCH CULTURE DANCE. BR CLAIM TO KNOW BLACK CULTURE BUT DOESN’T KNOW HIS CAMPAGINING FOR TWERKING AND HIS KNOWLEDGE OF ITS HISTORY IS WRONG. BUT HE WON’T ADMIT IT WHEN LINDA PROVIDES INFORMATION ON ITS HISTORY. BECAUSE BR THINKS THIS IS BLACKNESS, THIS IS HIS VIEW OF AFRICANNESS.

Where is the racist statement? You cant twist my words and things I never said to acuse me if being racist

And me wearing a thong is a pretty weird argument , and you are stuck on it and that shows you have weak arguments

Lets also understand the differance in pop groups you have stated and john Coltrane…pop groups work on putting on a show, with arrangements and cherographies all worked out…john Coltrane is about playing, do get the differance? He is about no vocais and no over arrangements , its the music itself, so they are better players…you cant compare, you have to understand Coletrane on his terms and what he represents of afro diasporic culture…trying to think pop players can play as good as jazz players is naive, playing is what jazz players do…many James brown and Motown musicians were jazz players

Same with gua gua co, sambao, marakatu, opanije, Sato, coco, rumba, merengue, etc…and you have to see the traditions of those dance cultures

I see josephine bakers art , and can find parralels to passistas in Brazil…dont put words in my mouth about her costume

Bs I owe you an apology , I never said it was a traditional African dance , I said there are traditiinal African dances that have moves like twerking , and I proved it beyond a doubt , bringing in huge amounts of clipes of various African dances with moves like twerking.as well as clipes in Brazil with dances like twerking , you think they got it from Beyonce?..get for real

If you are just going to lie Monroe go take a crap or something, because you bringing in the bs

Kiwi, cultural apropriation is what you are doing spewing black political rhtetoric
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Ebony says

The historic context of the images of Black women have not changed since the slave trade, but you disregard this point, too. 3. I’m clear I don’t have a problem with s-xual expression I just want more varied depictions of Black women. you disregard my right to this because of your opinion on the lack of activity of my v@gina???

FIRST YOU SAY I’M UPTIGHT ABOUT S-XUALITY, AND NOW YOU SAY IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH S-XUALITY?
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BR says

Yeah , Monroe, you are the one making it a sexual issue , and, you think you have the right to define what s*xualising is…through western definitions..and you just arnt old enough to define that

the new political activism of the young people in 2014, shallow, uninformed, provincial, steeped in anti interracial s*x, and destroys culture in the name of uptight S*XUALITY… you deserve to choke on your cliched disgusting depiction of my s*xual relationships with black women
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Ebony

The reason why the “sleazy element” was brought up is because it’s almost the only context you have used to talk about Black women. You don’t even say interracial relationships, you only say interracial s-x. This discussion was about Beyonce, a Western artist, who made it clear in interviews that she was exploring s-xuality in her music. This had nothing to do with Brazilian dance, as Beyonce is not Brazilian. Black women do not usually even have to study dance, they can usually dance from the time we can walk. I made it clear that I have no problem with s-xual themes in music, I just wholly disagreed with her including very young Black female children in it, because children should not be s-xualised. I also said that while I don’t have a problem with Black women exploring their s-xuality, I do take issue with the lack of balance to the images that artists like Rihanna (in a video like “Pour it up” or “S&M”) and Beyonce (“Partition”), produce, as Black women with platforms and influence. Time and time again, Black men and Black women have raised their concerns about what we call “ratchet” depictions of our Black women in media and entertainment, so this discussion is nothing knew. But you felt, as always, that it’s your place to argue with us even though it’s not your place.

I have had almost as many White boyfriends as I have had Black boyfriends, so there’s no point trying to bring it down to me having a problem with you being with Black women. You’re the one who must always bring the sleaze factor in, just as you did in your first post here, “booty, booty, booty.” I do not care how you live your life, but what I do find offensive is the fact that you continually insult my people on here by telling them that they know nothing about their own culture, and that they’re rhetoric puppets. You have done this with Blacks, Asians, and now specifically, Black women.

At first, you approached the debate from the angle that “it’s s-xual, but there’s nothing wrong with it, everyone’s a prude,” and then when I bring up the fact that my major problem is with the 9-11 year old girls dancing s-xually, you switched sides, began contradicting yourself, and said “it’s not sexual.” You lost all credibility here, it’s s-xual and then it’s not s-xual. You’re not making any sense.

4. You insulted not only me, by telling me Black British culture is nothing but “Pop” and that I don’t know my own culture, but you also insulted an entire population of the African diaspora by belittling Black British culture. I bring up our rich history of Black British Raggae, Ragga, Soul, R&B, Jazz, Hip hop; I bring up artists like Soul to soul, Omar, Lynden David Hall, but instead of apologising for your ignorance and your ignorant statements about the Black British community, you skim over it and continue to insult me.

5. I bring up how much the images of the Black community still mirror stereotypes created in the West from the slave trade, and how much media has been shown to impact African American children, and how much a lack of balance in our representations is just another strand of our social oppression. But you trivialize this by telling me what I say doesn’t exist and that it’s just Western pseudopsychology. You have belittled Black oppression and don’t even realise how racist you sound. You have told me I’m making up Black oppression.

I explain to you that Josephine Baker was made to dance in a banana skirt, and purposely danced like a monkey for the enjoyment of the White audience, so using her as an example is null and void. I point out that you are the one who has displayed how much you don’t know about Black culture by trying to use her as an example of “Black artistic liberation,” but once again, you divert, and instead being mature and being willing to be open and maybe even accept it, you just continue to belittle what I and other Black commenters know and speak on about our own race.

You could have respectfully said, “I understand there are not enough varied depictions of Black women like there are for White women, maybe I haven’t ever noticed it, but since you, the women who were speaking, and Abagond, are all Black, I understand these are things your people contend with. I myself am very liberal, but I see you’re discussing images steeped in rascism for Blacks, fair enough.” But you couldn’t do that, you had to go off on a tangent and insult entire people groups discussing issues in their communites that are now yours

You will respond to this by continuing to trivialize my issues I have raised about artists like Beyonce, points I and others like Sharina and mstoogood have taken the time to clarify, you will tell me I am full of psychobabble, that I don’t know my culture, you will preach on the good work you’re doing for po’ Black folk in Brazil, you will tell me I’m imagining things, that I’m insecure about something, and that you’re not impressed, you will tell me I’m a prude, you will use my race, geographical location, my gender, my age, my s*xual experience to twist and distort what I have said and to discredit me. But you’re wrong BR, you’ve been wrong.
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Abagond says

B.R.

I am not going to co-sign every little thing that Kiwi and Ebonymonroe said, so please do not mix it up, but you pretty much come off the same way to me too: like an arrogant, condescending white man.

It is extremely insulting to tell black people that you, as a white man, understand their culture better than they do. It makes you sound like a pr*ck.

It is not your place to tell black women that they are somehow screwed up for not wanting to be seen mainly as a piece of meat, particularly by white men, given their history. One of the main ways black men and women are misrepresented in Western culture is by being hypers*xualized.
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BR says

you need to look at a country like Brazil to debunk these Western psycho S&XUAL analysis that try to prove too much exposure to this or that will ruin you…like the old you get hair on your hand if you masterbate too much..its the same repressed veiw of S*X…Brazil flies in the face of these ridiculous notions, and proves people can be exposed to guargantuan amounts of sensual images and it doesnt make them abnormal..

and it just shows, North America and Britain are uptight about sex and race

time and time again, black women have been protrayed as ugly and not desired in the media also…Im saying the whole S*XUAL concept , tied to western concepts and psychology and religion is ruined..it should be junked totaly, especialy by black people, because it really doens get black culture at all
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BR SUGGESTS THAT HYPERS*XUAL IMAGES OF BLACK WOMEN ARE HELPING OR CAN HELP GET RID OF THE BLACK MAMMY STEREOTYPE. HE’S HELPING US AGAIN, HE’S GOT THE ANSWERS AGAIN.
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BR says

oh yeah, well congradulations you finaly outed yourself as having inner resentments and disgruntledness in your subconcous about white men having s*x with black women i say blatently “interracial s*x” because that is exactly what the hang up

I paid the dues to immerse myself in Afro diasporic cultures, I didnt copy them I went the extra mile
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BR SUGGESTS BECAUSE HE STUDIED A GENRE OF BLACK MUSIC IT MAKES HIM AN EXPERT EVEN IN THE AREA OF BLACK OPPRESSION STEREOTYPES AND THE S*XUALIZATION OF BLACK PEOPLE AND CHILDREN. HE DOESN’T UNDERSTAND THIS IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT AREA. HE’S THE TEACHER, I SHOULD BE THE STUDENT.
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BR said

nope, I said its sensual..I am consistant, you are uptight about s*xual issues, I say there is nothing wrong with sensual naked women on the beach or girls dancing Afro diasporic dances with pelvic thrusts
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FURTHUR UP I HIGHLIGHTED BRs USE OF THE WORLD S*XUAL, NOW HE CALIMS HE’S NEVER USED IT. BR THEN GOES ON TO INSULT THE BLACK BRITISH COMMUNITY FOR ITS MUSIC TELLING ME IT’S NOT JAZZ. I NEVER SAID IT WAS, I ONLY USED EXAMPLES WHEN HE SAID THERE’S NO SUCH THING AS BLACK DISAPORA CULTURE IN ENGLAND. YOU SEE, BR KNOWS ALL BLACK PEOPLE. ALL AROUND THE GLOBE. HE DOESN’T KNOW OF SOUL ARTISTS LIKE SADE AND SOUL TO SOUL AND OMAR, HE DOESN’T KNOW THERE’S HUGE CARRIBEAN AND AFRICAN COMMUNITY HERE, WITH OUR OWN FOODS AND CARNIVALS. BUT BR KNOWS BECAUSE BR KNOWS BLACK PEOPLE.
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BR says
get that, you mentioned are pop culturist
please, you are exposing yourself..i like jamiraquais band, but they are cut and paste copy…32 bars jungle boogie/ 32 bars stevie wonder living for the city..there are some find British jazz musicians, but , you just dont know jazz..gosh, i think of analysing coltrane and miles, bird , diz..jamiriquai or soul to soul isnt exactly what I call cutting edge jazz…

this is ridiculous, I am very concerned with images of black people in the media, i have said over and over the legacy of slavery carries over into today in all countries that brought slaves ..you are just uptight about sex and superimpose its dangers over everything including your culture analysis

like I said, far more people are screaming at the media makes black women look ugly and unwanted…everyting Im saying is the antithesis to that
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BRs got the solutions again. Little girls who appeared to be about 10-11 in the video I took issue with are going to help Black women because we won’t be seen as ugly anymore as long as we keep bending over.
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BR says

but you are all uptight because of some images of young girls shaking their booties…I happen to think its healthy…what is unhealthy is to not bring forth the best dancers who practice twerking, show their expertice and get their names out in the open..its amazing destroying black culture under the false pshycho analysys of western thought..i sure jetisoned that…

you say you really are open to black women demonstrating sensuality, but you balk at young girls dancing…i can bring in youtubes of young black girls everywhere there are black people and culture and you can find girls who will do moves involving pelvic thrusts…i thought you were a dancer/choreographer?
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Ebony says

BR i’m not bothering with repeating myself. I never said Soul to soul are Jazz, I named them as examples of Black British music, but you are still insulting Black Brits. The Black British Jazz movement was called Acid Jazz, it was an entirely different movement from Davis, in the same way you can’t discredit Hip hop poets like 2pac because they aren’t Gil Scott Heron. What the hell is wrong with you.

This is about race, it’s about the history of the depictions of Black women from the time they got off the boat and were named wench€s. This is not about Barberella and the s-xual revolution. You don’t even know what I’m talking about, you know nothing about Black history, all you know is Brazilian dance. I’m talking about White supremacist ideologies of the dangerous thuggish Black man, and the overs-xed Black woman, and you’re going on about dance moves. I don’t flippin believe this, this is the dumbest conversation I’ve ever had!

Just forget it, for crying out loud.
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BR says

B. R.

ok Abagond . prick huh?

First, I dont ever tell women that they are wrong if they dont want to be seen as a peice of meat…how can you get that so wrong

I say they have no right to judge other women how they want to deal with their bodies
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BUT BR DID JUDGE US AND HAVE A GO AT US FOR COMMENTING ON HOW WE FELT WE WERE BEING REPRESENTED. AND BR SPEAKS OF WOMEN, BUT HE FORGETS THE GIRLS IN THE VIDEO WERE CHILDREN.

BR will continue to say a modern video of Black people twerkin shows twerkin is a traditional African dance from a time before video, even though Linda brought in a credible article on Africans talking about their culture and the fact that twerkin is a new dance brought in by raunch culture and many of the elders don’t like it very much. But BR will continue.

Monroe, you didnt even know who Jesse Owens was and his value , for gods sake , get off your high horse and do some real research and study

You bring in flimsy arguments about me wearing a thong, twist what I say, put words in my mouth , but cant really discuss black American cultural history with any depth, and Im suposed to feel racist because you cant , and you acuse me if lording it over you…you also cant discuss afro Brazilian culture with any depth, and these are the dancers Im defending, as well as the right for any American girl to experiment dancing twerking

Where is my racist remark? Where did I say twerking itself is a traditional African dance? Quit bsing , it makes you look bad, I dont care if Sam and Kiwi agree with you, Kiwi has tried to pin me as thinking him and Jefe were perpetual foreigners , and anti Asian, 4 or 5 times, he just shoots the trigger finger

You got to do better than that than go off and just call me a racist mysologist just because you dont like what I say…you didnt prove anything….I see lots of weak arguments from you Sam and Kiwi…if this is your political agenda , its pitiful

Why are you telling false things? Or do you have such a misunderstanding of what Im saying that you totaly botch it…

I mean , I never said twerking was a traditional African dance…what crap…and linda talked about one city in one country, I brought in youtube after African country youtube to prove , moves that are in twerking are in dances in various countries in Africa way before twerking was invented…

You owe me an apology

Wow , Sam , Kiwi and Monroe, the dirt under my finger nails has more experiance executing afro diaspric dances and grooves , and that is no lie since just this month , I toured new york and parts of Brazil presenting afro diasporic dances and my trainings and practicing covers various grooves and traditional candomble ryhtms that are the African roots…and I have to listen to this drek? From people who dont really know outside their own personal cultural referance?

Where is the got dam effing racist statement? Bring it, all of you , any one..

I hear this crap addressed to me on this blog , but no one can prove it…and people can bring in words from all kinds of back threads…just bring it

What Ebonymonroe brought in has no racist remark, Sam and Kiwi know squat about afro diasporic culture, Sam , because he cant handle the truth about his beloved che, who did make racist statements , and did slerp with black women as sexual conquests, so falsely acuses me of being rscist

You are a peice of work Monroe , che did say racist things , treated black women as sexual objects…I never ever said anything on this blog about black women being my sexual conquest, I have said that in argument against Kiwis statistics hang up about dating that statistics dont stop me from hooking up with black women , which was promtley jumped on wrongly as though it was that Sea Hawkes owner bs, and ive been married twice tinblack women , and you have sided with the bs of Sam and wont condemn che…i never ever treated black women as sexual conquests, every time I got together with a black woman , it was meaningful

So this is tired crap, frommpeople who just get disgruntled with me shutting their weak arguments down….

dont come in cliched militant rhetoric condemning dancers who do dance naked cultures that dont have a problem with girls dancing with pelvic thrusts, That is the real arrogance..trying to hide it behind either militant black rhetoric or feminist militant activist chlched rhetoric..ive seen enough in Brazil to question all the s*xual hang ups thrusted on us in our anglo saxon societies
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BR SUGGESTS MY VIEWS ARE ANGLO SAXON BECAUSE I HAD A SIMPLE PROBLEM WITH CHILDREN TWERKIN IN A VIDEO. BR NEVER CAMPAIGNS FOR MILEY CYRUS, ONLY LITTLE BLACK AND BROWN GIRLS. BR IS WHITE, I’M BLACK, BUT I’M ANGLO SAXON AND HE’S AUTHENTICALLY BLACK BECAUSE HE BELIEVES IN NUDE BLACK CHILDREN TWERKIN AND TWERKIN IN MUSIC VIDEOS AND I DON’T. I’M ANGLO SAXON FOR THIS. EVEN THOUGH THE ARTISTS IN QUESTION, IS AMERICAN AND POP AT THAT.
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BR says

yes, im hitting hard on that, im provoking people about it because it is stifling

militant femininists should be much more concerned about a bottle of alcohol and the men in their lives
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I will go on to tell BR domestic violence has nothing to do with alcoholism in the Black community but unemployment. He will laugh at me, say “how dare I.” I will post credible information and he will go silent on it. I will suggest to him that perhaps he doesn’t know as much about the Black community as he thinks and the Mapouka vs. twerkin, his ideas on alcoholism in the Black community, and Josephine Baker’s exploitation going over his head may prove this. He will swerve and continue to patronize me.
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BR says

black culture, Abagond….I have never told black people they dont know their culture I brought in Ms Taylor Moore, in the black women I admire thread, she knows her culture, black people do not have to practice, and many dont, black Afro diasporic culture,
I tell individuals who have made ignorant comments , that they dont know their culture.. Funny Abagond, you are very well read in western literature , much more so than i, it would be the hight of pompasity and arrogance to tell you that because Im white, I automaticly know more about it than you

Abagond, the negative comments on this blog about anti interracial s*x are beyond arrogant Monroe, I was dancing the James Brown before you were born and a whole bunch of other dances, when you can do the James Brown get back to me, Ciara and that other young singer dancer as well as Sheila E
please spare me the America makes war on poc, more americans of all races and creeds have died fighting white people than any other kind of people,so you are really off base with that line of thinking

so, i resent you just calling me a prick, with kind of trash comments about interracial s*x that run around here…
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More advice from BR
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BR says

Monroe, the media also sais black women are ugly and not wanted

dont destroy it superimposing your uptight notions of what is too sexualised..that is just western white thought anyway..you would think you would get that…what is wrong with you, Monroe? you are all rhetoric and no substance

its a proven fact that the pelvic hip thrusts get rid of s*xual tension and is very healthy (REMEMBER WE’RE TALKING ABOUT CHILDREN HERE)

Monroe , about violence and rape, alcohol and the men in the womens life who drink it not that many women get raped for doing dances with pelvic hip thrusts
You know something , Monroe, Im not your “white man doll ” to beat up on and run the tired cliched militant rhetoric on , save that for a white racist

you have constantly twisted what I have said, into some kind of ridiculous straw man to run your read militant logic on why would I watch Josephine Baker for titilation when I have p0rn hub
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Ebony says

I never claimed to speak for all Black women, I said Black women are allowed to speak.

Children do not need to release s-xual tension, what is wrong with you? Whinning stimulates the blow flow to the private regions, and no one has condemned displays of Black s-xuality, we have asked for more varied depictions showing us a whole people, what is it you’re not getting.
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BR says

a lot of black people would be very interested in what I have to say about booty culture in Brazil

where do you stand on tap dancing? You actualy are going to try to say alcohol isnt a problem with violence to all women of all colors? You really have lost it..you cant look at reality anymore, you are so caught up in you rhetoric

you imedietly tried to make my beautiful s*x life with black women as perverted…you got uptight about something I said on the p0rn thread and made the fact I masturbate, something Im sure you never have ever done, is perverted…

but you make it perverted…like you are trying to make kids dancing booty dances…kids have natural affinity to booty dance and move their bodies,
One of the gifts out of many by the ancient traditional African drum dance cultures is, they also recognised the tremendous energy in the pelvic genital area
I hated the militant feminist movement in the states and it was one reason I left the states, I couldnt stomach their uptight notions of s*x
Abagond, Monroe, any Afro descendent on here , who feels offended , if ive said in the context of a debate “you dont even know your culture”, if you think its some kind of one up insult , its anything but…
its no insult to admit what you dont know

Monroe, I never said you were culturaless…I think you are very cultural..there is no insult being a pop culturalist
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Ebonymonroe says

BR

I’m not going to do this with you anymore because I’m starting to think you’re not all there.

In Africa, before the slave trade, a lot of African communities were highly religious, many followed forms of Christianity and Judaism, which are usually considered to be among the most conservative religions. So this idea you have that original African diasporac culture has always been made up of hypers-xualised peoples roaming around nude and clapping their bottom cheeks, is off. There’s nothing Western about wanting Blacks to be shown in a more diverse light. During the 90’s when Black owned record labels and film production companies rose up during the huge militant push and demand for greater equality after the Raegan era, before these labels were absorbed during a huge capitalist move where major labels bought out all independent and medium labels, we had everything from s-xy Envogue and Salt n pepper, to TLC, to acts like Toni Braxton. We had Lauryn Hill as well as hypers-xual artists like Lil Kim and Foxy Brown. We had Biggie but we also had intelligent Hip hop artists like Public enemy. When Hip hop began becoming big business, Def Jam executives have admitted that White heads of labels began asking stores not to stock acts like Public enemy and A tribe called quest, but NWA. They were also paying producers not to work with such acts. We have never had a problem with Black s-xuality, I don’t even have a problem with Beyonce, we just want a return to more diverse depictions of us in our own culture the way we once did before it became commercial property. You seem to think this is all African culture is about but it’s not. Even if you go to Africa, you will see from various tribal dances, night club spots and what have you, that this idea you have of a primitive Black people who’s entire culture is about twerkin is not true. There’s a huge African community in the UK, this description you have does not encompass African diasporac culture at all. You seem to think variation and humanity is only for Western White people. There isn’t even any such thing as White American music: gospel, country, blues, rock, jazz, R&B, bluegrass, hip hop, rock n roll, big band, you name it, it’s Black music, so there’s no such thing as Westernized, in this context.

This is not about interracial relationships, this is about you patronising Black people, by telling us time and time againthat we are all rhetoric puppets
Lastly, the number 1 reason for domestic violence in the Black community is unemployment BR, not alcohol. Lack of employment leads to contentious home environments.

Listen, you’re gonna have to try and understand that although you may have spent your life studying our music, you do not know anything about our struggle and oppression.
Beyonce’s Partition video and Rihanna Pour it up video were both inspired by strip clubs in the US, Beyonce said this herself, and the particular strip club she visited was one with White women, it had nothing to do with African diasporac culture at all. Whites have always dehumanized POC this way, like the me love you long time line by that Asian female character, or the glamorisation of lolita s-x trafficking in Memoirs of a Geisha. If you want to see the preservation of children being s-xualised, do it with your own race. Go speak out for Miley Cyrus, but make sure you demand she stop using Black women’s bodies as props. Go speak out for the next Britney Spears a teenager posing for Rolling Stone in her underwear with a teddy bear like a little girl. Go speak out for the children of your own race. But when Black men and women speak out about the continued representation of their children as taboo mini w€nches as Manding0s ready to be plucked, don’t try to tell us a thing because it’s not your place, it’s not your race.
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BR says

for me, it was two parts rolled into one, the sensuality question and the part, twerking that is an afro diasporic dance
my personal opinion is nudity and sensuality in our lives is healthy, including children, only in the sence tha in Brazil , they are exposed to near naked women on the beach and the dances on tv…little girls do the Brazil version of twerking, baile funk
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Ebony says

No, twerkin is not based on hip thrusts, the dance is executed by parting the bottom cheeks and then clapping them together in repetitions, usually performed whilst being bent over. There are many sensual dances that are perfectly fine and can be seen being performed by children, like, (refering specifically to the Caribbean community), whinning, or the dutty whine, the butterfly, or the tick tock. Twerkin however, is not one of them.
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BR says

Im not coming in to specificly defend twerking, im defending Afro diasporic cultures that get repressed bouncing up against Western religious values and racism…Ive gone to bat much more on tap than twerkin…I am consistant in my position, and a long time ago, perceiving how this cultural represion works , resolved to never condemn an Afro diasporic culture…
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Linda says

BR, BR, my friend… you know I have luv for you but on this topic, you and I will never see “eye to eye” … what you’re suggesting is that black/brown are naïve and have to form their opinions based on white people’s opinions… you know that’s not true.

what you call “repression”… is what black/brown people call ” loss of control of their own image”… black/brown people don’t control the narrative of how they are perceived in any white western society.

that’s the problem… white society has assigned the “promiscuous slut” label to black women from the time the first ship landed in the Americas… demeaning Africans and their customs and traditions from day one.

this Disgusting image of black women has NEVER been Repressed but sustained and upheld by ignorance…the image of black and white women should be “equals” in the eyes of white western society because black women of the diaspora, as Afro-descendants, are also the children of white western society — instead what do we have:

this image of black women being “sexual beings” is DEFINITELY a white man’s invention, which unfortunately too many people in the Americas and else where in the Diaspora, want to hold up as something “Authentically African”… no sir !!! it’s not… it’s a white man’s fantasy
black women are not in control of their Narrative or Image in the world, BR… that’s why that Dutch magazine thought it was OK to call Rihanna a “nigga b’tch” –

Beyoncé and the other “good girl singers turned heaux” who want to explore their sexuality, shake their a’s, and then want to call it “a black thing” — no bueno…

that’s Beyoncé thinking that shaking her a’s, is going to make her seem more “down” with her husbands JayZ’s black fans and audience…. that’s why I liked Lauren Hill (before she lost her mind due to Rohan), she was the one black woman who didn’t want to play the “heaux” game and remain “classy”

As a former participant in the reggae/dancehall “rub a dub” and whine, I’m the last person who wants to condemn a dance but twerking is “whining on steroids” — girls/women who want to clap their a’s cheeks — that’s what strippers do — that has Nothing to do with Africa…there is no “Afro-diaspora culture” here to defend

it’s OK to recognize when something has morphed from it’s origins…especially when it comes to dancing.. (I’m sure my grandmother said the same thing about we young people when we were all doing the “dollar whine” back home in Jamaica.) — things change generationally and that’s OK

but lets call a “duck a duck when it quacks” — twerking is part of the “stripper” culture that got popular… heauxs can be creative too — take a relative tame dance, add in some new provocative moves… boom… more money (see Karrine “Superhead Steffans for reference)

so, Please stop equating Africans with “sexual expression” and new world heaux dances

just because some of their traditional dances had “booty” shaking — this does not mean that they had no concept of what was considered “promiscuous” in their society.

Nudity might have been acceptable to certain African societies but if a bride came to the marriage bed a “non-virgin”… h’ll and life to pay… chastity and having morals is not a white European or Muslim “Arab” invention..

even the Muslim black Africans practiced their old animist religions and they did not change the Core Values of their society just because they adopted the Muslim faith.

African women had to be “virtuous” because many African societies demanded it — that was part of their Ethnic culture and traditions.

“Greater importance is attached to virginity of the girl among the Yoruba. The girl must be found to be “virgo intacta”. If the reverse is the case, on her first night, then she faces a thorough beating the following day so as to confess the culprit. But if she’s found to be a virgin, then the groom’s family will send some gifts to her house the following day”
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BR says

Linda , everything you say flies in the face of what happening here in Brazil You start speaking like you represent the black position, but , no one here represents some monolithic black position…I mean where were you when there was the controversy over the n word in the black community?

No one here speaks for the black community…

Ive been checking outntwerking moves , and you are dead wrong , they dont come from the Afro diasporic comunity…they absolutly do, I watched a y0ut()be of a little girl twerking, there is nothing s*xual at all about it and isactualy a release of tension in that area

Beyone’s image and dance ethic in itself is not the problem of black people in the media the s*xual hang ups got ingrained in a lot of black people to from this western up tightness

Sorry BR, hate to break it to you but “twerking” is from the “stripper” culture – it’s not some long lost “African” tradition or representative of “Afro diaspora” culture…it’s not my hang-up, darling…. that’s just the way it is
calling me “naïve” is just a defense mechanism on your part….but that’s OK, your position is still wrong, no matter how you slice it.

The traditional dances we do in the Caribbean and in Africa, don’t look anything like “twerking”… please show me where in our traditional dances — women are going down on all fours, putting up one leg and dry humping the ground while clapping their a’s cheeks…. that’s what “twerking” does… so please spare me…

clapping butt cheeks loudly while simulating humping movements like you’re on a pole, got popular in the strip clubs first (Jamaican dancehall go-go dancers {aka strippers} have been “twerking” since the ’80’s) — do I want my daughter looking up to a “go go” dancer and following her lead.. no, I don’t think so

since you are immersed in black American culture, then you should know that everyone calls it “booty dancing” for a reason… because strippers “booty dance” at the “booty club”

don’t try to turn it into some kind of African art form… you are trying to “dress up a pig and call it a princess”

I come from a country that has just as much “African” retained in our culture as Brazil, so you can lose that spiel, BR… it has no traction with me…
black/brown Brazilian women do not represent the rest of us in the world.

it’s not about Politics, amigo…. it’s about “lack of respect” for black women and our bodies, and how black women are perceived in the world at large.

I know that the young women that “twerk” are just trying to have fun… I get that… but they are doing a “heaux” dance… and the part that bothers me is that as far as society is concerned — it’s OK if they do dance like “heauxs” because they’re black and no one is surprised … but when young white girls do it, then “twerking is a problem”… I have a problem with the double standards, BR

I don’t support anything that further damages the image of black/brown women

and the sad reality of all of this is: no matter what black women do or say, they don’t control how they are perceived by SOCIETY…. that’s not the media, BR, that’s called HISTORY, thanks to white men.

Wake up, brother…. black/brown people speaking out against things that HURT us or our image, is not about Politics… it’s about our Life and how we FEEL about how we are perceived.

if you fail to understand that, then as I said, we really have nothing to discuss…

I just wanted to put out my Rejection of your “theories” about black/brown people adhering to some black American 1960’s political agenda… by making that statement, it just shows that you really don’t get it.
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BR says

Linda, the booty dancing thread was just replete with exactly those kinds of moves from y0ut()bes in African coutries
Sorry too, stripping is replete with borrowed Afro diasporic moves…everyone else borrows from Afro diasporic moves, why not stripping
Linda, you arnt going to care what I say, fine, but you are going to be on the wrong side of history

dont be surprised if Ciara or Janelle do a twerking video in the future
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Linda says

that’s why the Brazilian black people there are still struggling for equal rights in that country… something we in the Caribbean “took” for ourselves…it’s not about size, it’s about substance.

no, BR.. I don’t think so

Ciara and Janelle would just be 2 more black female entertainers lowering their standards and doing a heaux dance…:-)
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Soulsearch says

Dear B.R.,

The bottom line is that black people don’t need you to protect our culture from us. We have a right to shape and define our culture however we want. We don’t need you policing our blackness. Black culture isn’t some static never changing thing. We have a right to change our culture according to our reality and according to our needs. The needs and reality of black women have been expressed to you numerous times on this topic but you continue to ignore both.

It seems you believe you are the voice of black brazilians on this blog, you are not. You are not black! You are not BLACK! You are NOT BLACK!

Please stop trying to police OUR culture which includes our politics.

You’re worse than all the racists on this blog put together.
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abagond says

@ B.R.

These points from Ana’s post pretty much apply to you:

1. “The women: Black American men tend to see Brazilian women as more natural, easy-going, sexy and less overweight than their own women back home. ”

2. “They apply their own ideas of what is truly “African” to Brazil. That determines what they see and know, like capoeira, but not, say, black symbolist poets like Cruz e Souza.”

3. “Few bother to learn its history or read its great writers.”

I pretty much agree with Solesearch that you are trying to police black culture.

YOU have determined what is truly black. When blacks disagree with you, people who live and breathe black culture BY DEFINITION, you, a white man, corrects them!

YOU determine what is their proper politics (not feminist or militant or Marxist).

YOU determine what their proper religious beliefs should be (not Christian or Muslim) and its proper place in their society (it should have nothing to do with ideas of modesty and thereby obstruct your view of naked black booty).

YOU determine what is appropriate in their music videos (the main subject of this thread).

YOU determine socially acceptable levels of nudity (not so “uptight” that you would have to go to a strip club).

YOU determine what music they should listen to (not heavy metal, apparently).

Anyone who does not follow YOUR ideas of what is truly black does not have to be taken seriously. Apparently because they are “not black enough”. But YOU, a white man, should ALWAYS be taken seriously because YOU JUST KNOW WHAT IS RIGHT FOR BLACK PEOPLE.

How nice.
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BR says

That is not true , Abagond, my objective is to not determin what is truly black, its to defend black cultures that are being stepped on dismissed, destroyed abnd buried

you can be black and absolutly not live black culture most black people here, do live black culture, the culture of the pop world they grew up on. trying to paint me like im forcing anyone on here to accept twerking or any bare booty dance, is ridiculous, i could care less, but back way off condeming people who do practice these idioms, that is what is disgusting here…this dumping on, this judgemental ready to hatchet and muck rake over artists and styles and dancers who dance a certain way..by people who arent even profesional performers, not even amateur musicians or dancers..

it amounts to peanut gallery whining, with no depth…
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BR trivializes the thoughts Black women were sharing, he calls us names, he mocks us as being inauthentic Black women, and then he says, there’s nothing racist about what he’s said.

BR says
you talk innocent about interracial s*x, but, when I just happen to throw in about all the beautiful naked booty i get to see in public

in truth, this “dump” on Beyonce , is not just this thread, its been on here before..nothing to do with twerking, just a general atitude on this blog that its ok to dump on Beyoncé (POP CULTURE) Linda, who i got a lot of respect for was insisting there is no booty dancing in Africa like twerking, turns out its actualy considered a traditional dance…that was misinformation on her part,
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LINDA WILL BRING IN AN ARTICLE PROVING TWERKIN HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TRADITIONAL AFRICAN CULTURE. BUT HE STILL WILL NOT RELENT AND ADMIT HE’S WRONG. BECAUSE BR IS THE GATEKEEPER OF BLACKNESS
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BR says
yet, if i bring in the truth,its like im telling black people what to think or what black culture is…that is bs no i dont care what women do about s*x, i dont tell them they have to like it or anything, i say back far off the women who do like p0rn, who perform it for money…dont bring your tired morals as though they are mandates to all women…they arnt

i dont tell people to do anything,

Beyonce can sing…everyone bring up Laura Hill, and she is drop dead gorgeous but she doesnt out sing Beyonce,
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AFTER TELLING US HE WAS SICK AND TIRED OF WESTERNISED THOUGHT WHEN WE WERE DISCUSSING OUR ISSUE IN OUR COMMUNITY. HE SUGGESTS WE DON’T HAVE A RIGHT TO OUR OPINIONS BUT THEN SAYS HE DOESN’T TELL US WHAT TO DO.
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Ebony says

Whether or not you think Beyonce is a better artist than Lauryn Hill is really none of my concern. You would not understand why Lauryn Hill means so much more to the Black community than Beyonce does.

Lastly, there’s no point in telling any minority that you aren’t a part of to back off of expressing what they feel about their own minority group: not women, not Asians, and not Blacks.
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Linda says,

no, BR, it wasn’t misinformation on my part… all you did was bring in a video showing a “modern day” version of the Mapouka dance– a modern day version that borrowed an old “traditional dance” and blended it with new modern moves and styles.

That’s what happened to Mapouka (from Ivory Coast) — the same thing happened to old style “whining”.. new moves were added on to it and it became known as “twerking”

Africans don’t live in a bubble, BR, they are not immune to the trends around the world!

The country’s current Mapouka craze amounts to a revival of an ancient form – As it’s grown beyond its village origins different forms of the dance have emerged

“Christian de Mederos of Nigui Saf K-dance says “Mapouka is a modern dance with a traditional inspiration.

Part of the issue is that Mapouka was an ancient dance from the villages that has been modernized and brought to town. (the same way dancehall/whining was turned into “twerking”)

As it’s become more urban it’s become more popular. And as it’s become more popular so, many say, it has become more vulgar. –

In public, few people are ready to defend the Mapouka danced in nightclubs around the city: (you brought in a video of nightclub dancing)

“The traditional Mapouka is much better, particularly when you compare it to what is danced in nightclubs. Personally, I’m not at all interested in what you find there and when you see young people dancing like that in nightclubs – frankly, I’m disgusted.” – (I guess the majority of black people in Ivory Coast are uptight moralists infected by the white man too, huh)

Whatever you say about the other form of Mapouka I must say that I am completely against it.The traditional Mapouka is the real and only Mapouka.

The other Mapouka, I would go as far as to say that it is pornography danced in the rhythm of Mapouka and loosely based on the traditional Mapouka.” Those are strong words over a dance.But in a country where people care about culture perhaps that should be no surprise.”

Wow, I mean really people, you think this cyber space , hiding behind computor screens lashing out at people , calling them racist, twisting their words , saying false things , and thinking if some cyber blip sais something about a person they dont even know , never met, is some kind of valid , etched in stone judgement?

You people calling me racist, I despise your weak judgement…what kind of world do you live in that you think you can just lash out at me and judge me a racist?

Because I dont think sexualy like you all do?

What kind of weak political agenda are you plying to just think you can call me a racist mysiginist , when there so much ignorance going around? I cant even have an in depth discusion about jazz and the racism those great artist faced, and the similarities of moves of Josephine Baker and modern day bare booty passistas, and show clipes if modern booty dances in Brazil with similarities to twerking, in the states and marvel at the parralel similarities, without being accused if being some Lawrence of Arabia…what bs , dont lash out at me because of lack of knowledge, dont try to put me in the trick bag if copying or apropriating black culture ,when I have gone the extra mile to really find out the treasure and secrets that make it work and have been hired by top black artists and work with top flight Afro Brazilian dancers, just recorded Cuban clave in Miami , performed with incredible coco folklorical groups in their festivaletc, and fight to book presentations of these cultures

Linda, what kind of game are you playing here? I could bring in youtubes from various countries of africa, with similar moves…you made it seem like it doesnt exist
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He won’t even listen to the history told about traditional African dance vs. twerkin by African people.
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BR says

you raise the alarmist call of its from strip clubs, ignoring strip club history that didnt have those moves or music in it before..it was introduced because of outside Afro diasporic influences
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Linda says

Linda says,

BR, so many things that are just so “wrong” with your above statements.

but firstly, you can bring in as Many y0ut()bes as you can find, the reality is those vulgar moves you admire are moves that a “new” generation has blended with an old traditions… twerking is still a heaux dance.

(and I’m sure you know that ballet dancers used to be considered heauxs back in the day, so that is the wrong example to bring — comparing one “old time heaux dance” to a current, modern day heaux dance) …. you know I’m laughing while I write this because I’m certainly not the one that is pressed about it, old man 🙂 I’m just bringing in the reality

but anyway, you keep “linking up” with the Afro-Diaspora in Brazil, while I and every black/brown person who lives outside of the continent of Africa will to continue to BE the AFRO-DIASPORA — because that is what the Afro-Diaspora is, BR

It’s the PEOPLE who are of AFRICAN DESCENDANTS…we are “born”, not learned, practiced, or educated into the Afro-Diaspora, our very existence as African descendants is what defines the Afro-Diaspora and our various cultures.

it’s not “music” or some kind of monolithic “black” culture that creates the Afro Diaspora, BR– the Afro Diaspora is composed of various “traditions and cultures” because our African slave ancestors where dropped off in different countries.

the Afro-Diaspora is the people who live, breath, and EXIST as African descendants outside of Africa — North, Central, South America, Caribbean, Europe, and Asia

we are the only one’s whose voices count when it comes to forming and continuing our various cultures and traditions — we form what is called “the Afro-Diaspora” – because we EXIST in the various countries where our African ancestors formed their “new” traditions —

blended traditions because our African ancestors had no Choice if they wanted to survive in their new homes — we, the living embodiment of the Afro Diaspora, continue to represent and decide what is wrong or right with our various Afro-Diasporic cultures

you keep “admiring” Afro-diasporic culture in Brazil and black American jazz and tap … keep being the “soldier” and fight the good fight

while we black/brown people of African ancestry, the living embodiment of the Afro-Diaspora, continue to carry the African genes and African blood.

that is the common denominator that black/brown people share that you cannot “link up with” as a soldier of the cause or bring in a video about –so you keep “studying”
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BR says
first of all, Linda, check the Tanzania y0ut()be, that is not contemporary at all, that beat is not anything to do with the beats of pop music today…I know you cant hear that and make the connection
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BR doesn’t understand this just makes it a video of a new dance to old traditional music. BR knows Blackness and all its history. He knows Africans better than Africans
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BR says

second of all, no, these voices on here dont speak for black and brown women, and you too, you speak for yourselves… its the white racists and their uptight religious , prejudice , and their inability to see the art in this work, that is our biggest barriour first, and them the chumpy , low level diologue on here that is next…my wife is more Afro diasporic than you, Linda, and I guarentee you
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Ebony says

Oh my days, he continues to say things like “I’m more,” or “my kid is,” or “my wife is (basically) Blacker than you;” he’s made remarks like “you don’t know your own culture,” but complains about being insulted. I actually used my last few posts to try and patiently clarify what I meant about “balance in our images,” which is completely reasonable. I’ve never even taken the position that I want twerkin to be done away with, I’ve only ever said the images of Black women in the media are unbalanced and that this is something that has always been this way, and that many famous Black women fall in line to cross-over, but you skip what people are saying just to insult them and then you complain about being insulted.

Linda has explained what I was trying to say: twerkin is not a part of African history, it’s a modern hypers-xual dance from raunch culture. So campaigning for it under the pretense that it’s cultural preservation is a lie. Linda brought in sources talking about how an African dance evolved into twerkin, in recent times. You have spent this entire time arguing, with your points founded on historical cultural preservation vs. the modernisation of African culture, but Linda has proved (in a creditable manner), that that’s exactly what twerkin is.

You keep saying we don’t speak for Black women, but you don’t either, the only difference between us and you is that we never claimed to speak for all Black women, but you have.

You keep bringing in modern videos of variations on twerkin, but you have not disproved the facts Linda has brought in about how the Mapouka, in our times of raunch culture combined with the exploitation of Black culture, has morphed into twerkin. You can’t provide proof that twerkin is an ancient African dance, but this is what you’ve been alluding to.

Your whole entire argument has collapsed because it was founded on twerkin being a part of African culture in a historical context, but Linda has shown that’s not true, and now, instead of accepting that you’re wrong, you’ve reverted to going on about modern day Brazil again, to validate your argument that has already been undone. You’re now starting to make yourself look silly. What’s so sad is that either your pride won’t allow you to admit you’ve lost, or you don’t even realise it.
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Linda says

Linda

“BR@ my wife is more Afro diasporic than you, Linda, and I guarentee you”

Linda says,

LOLLLLL, OK BR…. Oh please …the only way your wife could be even remotely more “Afro diasporic” than me, would be that she, herself, came DIRECTLY from Africa as an immigrant to Brazil…
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BR says

My sons Blacker than you
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abagond says

@ B.R.

“my wife is more Afro diasporic than you, Linda”

This is what I mean about you setting yourself up as judge of what is truly black and then using that to invalidate what black commenters say. Linda, from what I understand, is every bit as Afro-diasporic as your wife. So are most other commenters on this thread.
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BR says

let me tell you, linda, this is not your forte, listen to the Tanzania y0ut()be again, that is nothing at all like any pop beat out threre, it is a traditional ancient black african beat..you cant hear it….how can you judge it when you cant hear it, And that youtube was as deep as any of them, makes twerking look like patty cake
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Legion comes in as a Black man, BR responds go read some chomsky, legion…
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Ebony says

1. You have been proven wrong in that the Mapouka is a traditional African dance, twerkin is a part of modernised Black culture, the very thing you’ve been rallying against, (modernisation).

2. Conservatism was not the markings of Westernization upon African society, African culture was in fact very conservative in its values without the help of White people

3. You are not as knowledgeable about Black culture as you think. Like in your objection of unemployment vs. your random assumption of a theory regarding alcoholism being the culprit behind problems in domestic life for Black peoples.

I say this politely, but you have been proven wrong here, a lot. I would rather end engaging in the debate just to go around in circles on this, by agreeing to disagree on facts, if you wish.
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King will speak as a Black man, he will dismiss him. White commenter will speak such as wordy

1. You enjoy looking at booty at the beach and in twerking videos. More power to ya! I think most heterosexual men would agree with you there.

2. You don’t like people whose views, if more widely held, would stop you from being able to see booty.

3. You think that many forms of Afro Caribbean, African and Afro Brazilian dance can be reducible to booty shaking/twerking. You’ve formed this view from your own experiences as the husband of an Afro Brazilian woman, and because of some YouTube videos.

4. Black women are naturally less ‘hung up’ on sex: they’re more sensual, and if left to their own devices they like to show their booties off. The only reason why people on this thread are complaining about pre-pubescent girls twerking is because they’ve been brainwashed by whites, who (you imply) are more ‘uptight’ and conservative sexually.

B.R, I’d like to address point 4. Your assumption here ties in with the ‘Jezebel’ stereotype that Abagond covered in another post. I think Abagond fully debunked this stereotype in his post and further up on this thread.

Anyway, white people – particularly white women because we are really talking about women here – do NOT have a monopoly on sexual conservatism. Girls in Australia – a 92% white country –shake their bums in nightclubs and go topless at the beach.

In fact, the whole raunch culture that has given birth to horrible things like stripper poles for little girls comes from the Sexual Revolution, which was very much a ‘white’ people’s movement in my opinion.

On a more personal note, I don’t know whether you have a daughter but MOST fathers would not want their little girls to shake their bums in a suggestive manner.
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But he will still continue to dismiss everyone because BR knows Black people, particularly Black women and what we’re all about. He will eve go on to talk about his wife being beaten and raped as some kind of badge of Blackness he acquired in her. He police’s what we say, feel and how Black we are in his opinion.

Few american men get to really understand the female body out side of their playboy maigizines and current girl freinds or spouses, we have been denied, unless their profesion puts them in an inside contact, like me with Louis falco , with open nude co ed dressing rooms that i as the accompanying musician , got to see..beleive, that set me straight on the power of sensuality, because , king, Im here to say its no less than the cure for so many mental ruts and depresions…being in a sensual atmosphere goes farther than any psychiatrist could to get me to let go of the logic brain bombarding me with all the hubris of the past
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BR won’t go nude, but his claim to peace is women going nude. You see, he likes it one way and fights for it one way. It’s about his pleasure.

The problem is, king, you are trapped in your own american experiance point of referance, that is why you made the post you did their wonderful bodies are on display for me to understand exactly what wemen really look like, and it is wonderful and i respect women more for that

Once again, I answerd everything Linda said, and brought in more youtubes than anyone showing various African countries with traditiinal dances that had moves like twerking…more than anyone, and I brought in link after link if afro diasporic dances being banned in history by everyone…more information that nobody has stated here

And stripping has used lots of differant moves and musics, these moves are not fundimentaly from strip clubes, they are afro diasporic moves that were introduced to strip…polé dancing is mainstream now…dont you get it

Stripping is stripping when you sistematicly take your clothes off..that is what makes stripping strip

I dont back down from one thing I said , stop. twisting I said twerking is an African traditional dance,,baile funk is similar and is parralel…I said some traditiinal African dances have moves like twerking…you not showing my links is intellectualy dishonest on your part , Monroe, something quite frequent here

I think you behave like a disgusting, exploitative individual hiding behind terms like sensuality. Many Black people and poc here have told you you’re being racist but you’re so up yourself you will not listen to why things like “my son is Blacker than you” is racist. Or fighting for nude Black female dancers while you refuse to also wear skimpy attire on the beach is hypocritical. I used your words, I didn’t change the sentence structures or anything I simply cut and pasted the many horrible things you’ve said, the voices of Black and non Black people and your dismissal of the opinions and the facts they’ve presented. Your disgusting outlook on what ancient Africanness is, your racist Western ideas on authentic Black woman-ness. You are seeing your own words right here.

Are you serious about this thong thing? Are you that weak in your arguments?

Why dont you find out who Jesse Owens is?

Yeah , I stand by what I said to King

Im so happy to be far away from mentalities like yours , and Sans and Kiwi, it is such a blessing…there are commies down here…the real ones

You havent proved anything , except your main argument is I probably wouldnt wear a thong on a Brazilian beach that accepts women in thongs but men not…I would go to a nude beach

So your litmus test is men and women have to wear the same thing? I did wear a quasi male thong on the beach there a couple of times…i cant beleive this is your main thrust…you are wasting my time now…I check in later

See if you can come up with a phrase I ever said that is racist…I mean Im open to discuss it, if there is some validity…but nothing you brought in comes close

No, Monroe, a bunch of white people and poc tried to acuse me of being racist, and a couple of black people like Mbhetti said I was racist not even talking about race issues and Abagond said my expanded links on the Pakistan , Afghanistan , Índia triangle , trying to show the complexities there instead if cookie cutter anti American thinking and he said I sounded like a white man

So what have we got, a bunch of cyber blips , hiding behind computor screens , with some black Americans exiting whose opinions I respected and I didnt get called racist by them , one third of the commenters are from foreign countries

And I asked over and over if anyone can prove it , you sure cant, and no one has m except in their own disgruntled mind

And yes my family is Afro diasporic, this is my family of 28 years, its not like a grandmother was black , so , I deal with the race issues they deal with on a daily basis

So you expect me to give some kind of credibility to a bunch of cyber blips, who really dont reoresent black people?

Look at the state of you man. I have not thrown one ad hominem at you, I’ve only spoken about the way you behave. You’re still insulting Black people. Now Herneith. What is wrong with you? And yet you say you’re not a racist. You’re so entitled to the lives and views of Black people you even insult us on our own views. No one insulted your views in that thread, you came in and began insulting ours for no reason. You’re behave like a very nasty piece of work BR. It’s truly disgusting. You don’t fool me. I know you’re a racist, you just express it in a different way is all. Disgusting!

I hide behind sensuality? I think you are uptight about nudity, dont know much about real sex , and take your feminist militant views and superimpose them over race issues when it suits you , and lash out if you get challenged , and could use some serious research…I mean the black political agenda has been exhausted for decades now, and knowledge of afro diasporic cultural origins is a wide open new territory to be explored and put attention on the cultural fault lines…because , after all of the political diologue, what people express the most is still an emptiness…because the cultural racism is a constant, and you can only really defeat it by having to do the research what Afro diasporic culture is , and the struggles it faced

BR you claimed to be about expressing nudity and sensuality but you do not live what you preach. You only push for the Black women in your life. Your argument falls apart when it’s exclusive to Black women. You’re a hypocrite. This is not about a s*xual nudist revolution and way of life for you otherwise you’d live it. You celebrate and push for it for Black women, who you fetishize and Black female children. That’s like me protesting everyone should when green it’s the right thing to do, I’m deep in the trenches of a new green way of life and clothing, all the while wearing Black and confessing I won’t fight to wear it because people don’t accept it of my gender. But you will push for nude Black twerking women even though that’s not accepted. You view women as objects for you to stare at, to entertain you, you view Black women as the Black jezebel stereotype, the only difference is your view of Black women as prostitutes only extends to nudity and strip club culture as opposed to prostitution involving penetration. You’re a hypocrite, a White man who dismisses the views of poc by telling them they’re rhetoric puppets, you psychoanalyse us, you dismiss women by telling them they’re nothing but militant feminists. You dismiss and patronize all minority groups because you think the world owes you something, that we’re here for your entertainment. That we’re stupid, that you have a right to grandfather us and dismiss us. You don’t. You’re just as racist as any racist I’ve ever known. You’re the same tired racist old White guy, who non racist White people on the blog have even tried to reason with. You’re the same thing with different wording BR, the same old thing. Abagond is right, you and Biff are more alike than you could ever imagine. At least he’s honest about it, but you’re so deceived your reasons are righteous you think you’re helping us po’ poc. Same old, same old.

Look Monroe Im an equal oportunity insulter , people insult me , I insult them back , dont play that tired game…you call me a racist mysiginist , a bunch if other things and think you havent insulted me?

take your feminist militant views and superimpose them over race issues when it suits you , and lash out if you get challenged , and could use some serious research…I mean the black political agenda has been exhausted for decades now
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I’m not a militant feminist. Secondly, you wouldn’t know anything about how minority groups collide, Blackness, womanhood because you’ve never stopped to see women of color as more than flesh.

Lastly BR, whether or not Black militant rhetoric was the issue (which it’s not I can think for myself, I know my own life, my views, surprisingly), or not, you’re not Black to tell us what ideologies we can and can’t believe in. You’re not Black to police our views. You’re not Black to say what the Black community should and should not keep and discard. LMAO. This is the thing you don’t get! Nooooot yoooouuuur plaaaace!

Im not telling you or the black community what to do , Im defending real black people I know, I know their struggles and dreams, we dream tigether, I colaborate , Im defending them from people who think like you who would roll over them …you dont speak for them ….I dont care what you think or how you want to live your life but back off judging how people I work with and respect more than any cyber blip on this blog or any blog,

BR all you’ve done is told Black people here what to do. No one has told the people in your life what to do. You don’t give our thoughts weight because we’re Black and you think nothing of Black people. Telling me to find discover Jesse Williams, well schnokums, I’m here to discover Black history, unlike you who happens to be here to insult and patronize and finger wag at Black people and poc and women. Why don’t you go read Bell Hooks since you know nothing about Black women, our plight, or our history at all. Even though you’re with one. Hmmm

Im defending real black people I know, I know their struggles and dreams
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To shake their backsides, walk in the nude, tap dance and practice voodoo, for you their master, who talks about them like you’re their father, their gatekeeper and they the sheep in a pen with master BR watching over them protecting his entertainment value. If and when they put their clothes on, do you slap them, line them up and tell the one who paused “the others are Blacker than you?” Like that character comparing cotton pickers in 12 yrs a slave? I betcha do.

Your analogy if prostitution is sick on your part, I deal with high art , and it is accepted where I live, and ive worked with passistas in costume in Los Angeles also , and these women deserve the right to present their art how they want to

That is a sick point of view….check it…and it is just the sick mentality I despise and will combat until I die…get on the other side if the line, you bs some of these blips but you cant fool me…that is sick bs to equate passistas to prostitutes

get on the other side if the line
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I forgot, the back of the bus. I’m sorry BR
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BR said

you bs some of these blips but you cant fool me
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Actually BR, almost everyone, poc and w commenters have said the same thing to you. It’s you who thinks you’ve got us fooled. You don’t.
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BR said

Yeah m throw in tap dancing , another art you dont respect
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When have I ever said anything bad about tap? When? I’ll tell you when . . ..NEVER. Do you know why you assumed about my views on tap BR? Because I’m Black, I’m a Black woman, so you think you know who I am, what I believe, what I like, where my views come from. You’re a liberal phony. You’re a racist misogynist.

No one’s judged Brazilian dance culture BR, you’ve judged our thoughts on general topic relating to Black depictions. That’s the difference, no one was talking about Brazil. ROTF. Because you we’re here for you to talk down to and set straight.

Studying ketu style sticking fro candomble, has opened up huge treasure of giving me insites to origins of beats that not only are the bridge from Brazil to Africa, but they show the origins of ryhthms and dance beats that became the popular beats and foundations to all these incredible musics in the Americas

Even being from Brazil ,it gives my jazz swing a lift, because Americas afro diasporic drum culture was banned and lost

Its profound and deep…do you want to put your foot any deeper into your mouth?

There you go again. All you can say when it comes to Black people/Black women is nudity, twerkin, music and voodoo. And any nuance we discuss amongst ourselves that doesn’t conform to this narrow view of authentic Blackness is putting my foot in my mouth, disrespecting true Blackness, ha BR? You think you know me. I know exactly what kind of person you are.

What is your problem Minroe? You think because you are black you cant put your foot in your mouth? You cant be ignorant of something?I am ignorant of clássicas music compared to Wyntin Marsalis..

And there you go stereotyping black culture…that is your take not mine

Like I said , think what you want, it never ever was me telling black people how to think…its telling you , who happen to be black , to back off judging other black people what they chose to dance…I will defend them..and they deserve it…I dont care if you are white or green or purple, quit hiding behind blackness and my whiteness

Now Ebony, he is only trying to edumacate us coloureds for our own good!

@BR:

I have been insulted by better than you so try your best! Sir, every utterance emanating to your ill advised posts proclaim you as a racist. It is a wonder anyone bothers to respond to your blathering in depth.

BR
I’ve never insulted tap, I’ve never insulted tradiontal African heritage. I do not insult Brazilian culture. I take issue with your extremely narrow portrait of Blackness that does not shift under any circumstance or context: Blackness is
nudity
Twerkin
Tap dance
Louis Armstrong grinningh Voodoo
Women and female children publicly ridding themselves of s-xual tension through bursting into spontaneous pelvic thrusts.

Any kind of Blackness that deviates from this, you dismiss as Westernized, uptight, Whiteness, Black militant rhetoric, militant Black feminist rhetoric. You begin to name call and talk down to commenters, tell us we’re not Black enough, your behaviour is disgusting. You’re quick to defend the kind of Blackness that suits your definition on what it is and even quicker to insult Black people who express any nuance as militants. You’re behaving disgustingly racist, and misogynistic.

BR, the genesis of this was you projecting your perspective on what Blackness is onto Black commenters discussing Black images and the images of our children by a Western artist with young children doing a Western, strip club dance. You did patronise and insult a number of Black commenters by telling us we’re Westernised and uptight for speaking on our community. You came in to critique us, not one person initiated the finger wagging at you. You throw a bunny boiling post in and then try to play the innocent victim. But you don’t protest for the likes of Miley Cyrus. You won’t protest for male nudity with the excuse that you’re White, Brazilians won’t listen to you, but when it comes to Black women you’re all up in it. You’re full of hypocrisy, and extremely selective when it comes to the Blackness you’ll show any regard for whatsoever.

And yes my family is Afro diasporic, this is my family of 28 years, its not like a grandmother was black , so , I deal with the race issues they deal with on a daily basis

Linda says,

You don’t get to discredit me and my opinions on your love of heaux dancing by dragging in my mixed-race heritage.

BR, my family is just as “Afro Diasporic” as yours because being “black” is based on having African ancestry… it’s not a culture, BR… it’s about blood heritage that comes from Africa …just like Obama and other mixed people, who represent “black” people.

Parts of me and my families DNA will trace back to an African ethnic group, BR, none of yours will — you don’t get to be “black” by shared space and osmosis, and then turn around and tell me my opinions don’t count because I’m mixed — you don’t get to wield that weapon

As far as I’m concerned, the only people who can tell me I’m not “black enough” are ethnic Africans, straight from the flippin African Continent — they are the only true black people who have the right to decide what is “Traditional” about Africa and its various cultures.

As far as white Americans and Europeans are concerned–I’m black or whatever other dark race or ethnic group they despise. (currently it’s Mexicans and central Americans on the hit list) and based on my experiences with racism in America and in Europe, this alone dictates my right to speak about issues that affect black women.

My niece had found this video (she likes hair blogs) about a young woman from Ecuador who resembles me somewhat and has an almost similar mixture Chinese, Spanish/European, and African. (except my skin tone is a little lighter and my hair is curlier).

does she look “white” to anyone and can she get a Jennifer Lopez “white Latina” pass?–no she can’t and neither can I.

You know good and well that neither she or I get a pass in South America in countries with large native or white/mestizo populations because colourism is too strong an issue.

Many so called “white” south Americans look down on darker-skin toned mestizos/ morenos because they know the dark skin tone comes from having an Indio or African heritage. I don’t run from my blackness, I fully embrace it.

If anything, what you did by trying to kick me out the black group, is you inadvertently brought up an issue that is a sore point between black Americans and Afro-Latinos/ mixed-race people.

So, I’m looking forward to when this issue comes up in Hispanic American Heritage Month

Also, BR, I think your message about Africans roles in history and its suppression needs to be said “loud and clear” and examined

but you cannot be a supporter for African descendants in the diaspora and then, turn around and tell us: “our voices don’t matter”

because we are emphatically telling you about what we don’t like about the portrayal of OUR images by other African descendants who have the ability to gain the attention of the world through the media (such as Beyonce and other entertainers)

I don’t think you are racist, BR, I disagree with Sam and the others on that–

but you are the one (not Ebonymonroe), that has advocated and embraced the stereotypes of black women, when it comes to dancing and black women.

modern day Booty dancing is NOT a traditional black African cultural thing… please, do not tell me or any other black woman that bending over a’s in the air, shaking and a’s clapping, is “normal” for black women… that’s bullsh’t!

the videos you brought in were of African women doing modernized “booty shake” dancing, incorporating aspects of traditional African dancing

Africans are not stuck in the dark ages… they listen to hip-hop, watch MTV and BET, watch real Housewives of Atlanta, and know what is happening and what is trendy in the world.

Don’t use Africans to justify a modern day westernized heaux dance!

because black/dark women being portrayed as “whores” is a world-wide problem, BR —

it’s not fair that black girls and young black women cannot be thought of as “innocents” that need to be protected because of stereotypes about black women as “always wanting sex” –these stereotypes have existed for the last 300 years, BR.

By the virtue of having dark skin or African heritage, the world already has placed a low value and price tag on our heads.

No, Linda, once again,your cultural concepts are weak , the fact you and Monroe break these dances down to heuax dances or like prostitute dances means you are naive . I handed you your head on a platter bringing in video after video of differant African countries having dances that had moves like twerking , that werent affected by modern vídeos, that is absurd on your part…

Why does Brazil have baile funk that has very similar moves? And I can tell your naive self , that baile funk was never influenced by Beyonce or twerking…so that blows your theory right out of the water…because this is not your forte , Linda…out all your Jamaica discussion, you never mentioned kumila or menta, the African roots in Jamaican drumming, I had to see that in a Brazilian docu

I apreciate you dont think Im a racist , so , I leave you out of my next posts…my referance was not meant to diminish you ,its meant to say , my parents are dead , my brothers thousands of miles away, my family for twenty eight years s black and mixed , and we face racism and anti Americanism together , so , anyone can save the you can be married to a black person and still be racist, for those that are , it doesnt aply to me…I know Im not black , or know what it is like to be black , but I am in the daily fight for my family against racism, and anti interracial sex attitudes

For the people who call me mysiginist and racist, you just dont get the dynamic…I catagoricly regect your comments and flush them down the toilet

Mysiginist ? Kiwi and Monroe are green apples , there is no way they can formulate an opinion on how men and women ought to relate to each other

Sam cant keep a long term relationship , and thinks women who shave their genitália are implying little boys, which is sick…and certainly desqualifies him to judge me

Monroe , your disgusting referance to dancers I have worked with as prostitutes is shameful …take your Gail Dines formulated concepts of sexuality and stuff it …I catagoricly regect your morals and anyone who thinks like you, I am at serious odds with that mentality

And anyone on here who calls me a racist for my views on working with this culture , your concept of what is racist has become flawed and warped…with so many real examples of racism in the world , you need to back to your drawing board and make some serious adjustments

Because I am rebeling against your mentality, I wash my hands of your judgement, and reject you with every fiber of my body…get away from me in real life …you or any one brings this crap in my real life and I bristle in your face

Passistas from Brazil who wear the bare bootie costumes are some of the highest form of Afro diasporic culture you can find anywhere in the world , it is my absolute honor and privalege to have worked with them. baile funk has been deemed official cultural heritage of Rio De Janeiro. This makes these criticisms ridiculous ,anyone associating these dances with prostitutes and heuaxs is seriously deluded and naive, and I reject that right out, and even more for associating calling me a racist for it…kiss my rear end

Anyone on this blog dropping the racist card on me for that , I reject you outright…and rebel against you…this mentality is flawed , you have lost the right to call me a racist

Abagond, I bring in links to expand the discusion on the Pakistan , Afghanistan and Índia triangle , to get past yourvcookie cutter concept if American involvement , and you lable me white thinking? I reject that…I also reject your abortion position

This is absolutely the last time I will be addressing you on this blog. I have patiently and oftentimes, gently, tried to reason with you on your condescending attitude towards minority groups on here, particularly Black people. I have apologised when I’ve lost my temper and on other occasions with commenters on the blog who I have engaged with where I ended up being wrong, I have admitted it. Because I do not treat people the way you do and I am not stubborn, rude or self centred. I can humble myself about things I’m not knowledgeable on, I can respect the perspectives of other ethnic and minority groups on here when they’re discussing their own groups, even if I don’t agree, I’m sensitive to it. Because I’m coming from a sincere place, not one of pride, entitlement, ownership or one upmanship.

With that said, I have used your words in posts above to show you the racism and misogyny in your views. Your own perverted views on Black women. I have not twisted your words at any time, I simply copied and pasted them.

1. You do not speak about nudity like some return to a primitive natural state, like that of an Aboriginal tribe, where nudity is indeed natural. You speak on what Brazilian women being nude does for you, as entertainment, their bodies are there to counsel you, as you put it, they like your stares, they want it, in your opinion, they’re not doing it for themselves, but for you, to put on a show. As you said, you went to Brazil to escape America because of the feminist movement, to Brazil to be titillated. You BR, only like your women and your “Blackness” in a very particular way.

2. If you really believed what you preach, you too would fight “deep in the trenches to also where thongs on the beach,” you don’t, you’re being uptight and unnatural by conforming to the Brazilian “Western surfer adopted” attire for men, just because it’s not accepted for men. You’ll fight for Black women, but not for youself. You’re not consistent and not living the kind of world where nudity, sensuality and s-xuality are public or readily available. You’re not about a general liberal attitude, you want a world of women, particularly Black women where they conform so much to patriarchal pleasing posturing that, as you said, you don’t even have to go to the strip club. You say young and old booty is wonderful and welcome, but turn around and give the excuse you’re too old to wear one, you say it’s healthy, but don’t wear one, you say you fight for these women to wear what they want, against judgemental attitudes, but but in the next breath you say you don’t wear a thong because Brazilian men will judge you, you say they won’t listen to you because you’re White you’re not an authority, but will jump up as an authority leading the march for Black women.

I’ve never mentioned my views on natural nudity, or what my views are on s-xuality other than saying I’m pro s-xual expression, but because I oppose your sick entitlement and condescension, I’m an unnatural Black woman, a prude uptight, White as you suggest. Because I was talking to other Black women on the blog about how much I hated a Pop artist’s (Beyonce’s) decision to put 9-10 year Black girl, turn around, bent over, in cut off shorts, jiggling their bottoms with the camera coming in from bellow giving close up of their child bottoms, in her music video. That makes me weird, an affront to you. You tell me to shut up, that I don’t matter, yell and name call me down.

3. You will quickly rant on about tap dancing, Louis Armstrong, and Jesse Williams’ statements suggesting that Black people were bringing it on themselves, even though Jesse later rejected his original views on passivity, but you’re quick to insult movements like the Black Panthers, Malcolm X, Black feminism. You’re not consistent with your respect for Black people, you enjoy a particular type of Blackness, a submissive, traditional White racist’s view of “good” Blackness: voodoo, twerking and butt clapping, nudity, tap dance, Louis Armstrong grinning.

Anything that deviates from this, you bark at as inauthentic Blackness. You dismiss the views of Black commenters who do not conform to this narrow view, attacking them as White and Westernised even though they’re not talking to you, you rise up and police.

4. Funk is not a traditional dance nor is Twerkin or any of its kind, but it doesn’t matter what actual Africans say about it in the article Linda brought in. You go on y0ut()be (which is what you call credible research), and find videos of Black people doing modernised raunchy dances to traditional music and use this as confirmation. Nothing will shift your world view. Not the fact that early anumist African culture was extremely conservative, because you do not believe this is a natural Black state, it must be the influence of White people, it doesn’t matter what is shown to you, you have one view of Black people that is very much in line with a White colonial, antebellum American view of the African man, woman and child and their descendants.

5. You covertly insult Linda by hinting that your Black connection is beyond grandparentage in response to her in the Yonce thread, and then you say you didn’t direct it at her. After I told you of my Stepdad’s experience in music with defining funk acts like The Ohio players and Prince, to explain my family too has music experience, you turn to Buddhuu and say “I’ve been in much more than a little funk pop band,” and then pretend you didn’t insult my family, instead you accuse me of insulting your wife when I never mentioned her. But then you have the nerve to ask me to pass on your son’s CD.

You attack and offend and then play the defensive like some poor deer in the headlights. Of course acts like The Ohio players, George Clinton, Earth Wind and Fire are not another generation of the culture you’re appropriating. They’re not the people group actually creating the culture you claim to respect. You can dismiss them, grade their Blackness, you can literally tell me your son’s Blacker than me and when Abagond tell’s you this is wrong, you correct him, a Black man. He informs you telling people what is Blacker isn’t right, but then you respond by telling him you get up early to play the drums, suggesting this gives you a pass. Yet you don’t think it’s racist.

Look at Linda describing her Black heritage to you, because you see Blackness as a list of things, not a people group. You demand an explanation of our level of Blackness and then grade it. You don’t just say African diasporic, you’ve actually said, “my son’s Black than you,” point blank, but don’t think this is racist suggesting and grading what Blackness is and then not only refusing to apologise but continuing to throw insult after insult, one person after another?

6. No one ever insulted passistas, I told you your way of describing them and the women on the beach as being there for your pleasure, to make you feel good, for your mental well being as you put it, is reducing their bodies to a service for you, like prostitution.

7. You protest Brazil’s state being flies in the face of problems associated with an environment I can only describe as vulnerable to exploitation, only because of people like you who think like you, but you had no idea of Brazil’s massively growing adult female and child s-x trafficking problems, which is growing because of foreign men like you who go there seeing the women as a service. I post a huge servey on the majority of people residing in Brazil believing a woman deserves to be r@ped if she’s showing too much skin, after you claim hardly anyone thinks anything of it, here. You don’t even know what’s going on in your own country, Sam was spot on in that post, don’t try to throw mud to discredit what he said there, you’re swerving the very valid points he touched on with you.

I prove you wrong on your ridiculous assumption that domestic problems in the Black community is about alcoholism, but after informing you that it’s about unemployment, you couldn’t even humble yourself and apologise after insulting me before I brought the article in. You haven’t been right on a thing.

8. No one bothers you about Brazil. No one attacked your views, it’s the other way around, you attack and police the views of Black people. You said the post by Ana the Brazilian woman wasn’t credible because she’s not authentically Black to you because she listens to metal. You dictate and patronise, you name call and suggest we’re Whitened, you police us.
You shout down African authority on traditional African dance, a Brazilian woman, throw ad hominems at Black men and women, grade their Blackness, insult parts of the Black population like the Black British community by saying our culture is worthless pop. Try to swerve Linda’s points by saying she doesn’t have one because she didn’t include specific names so she’s not Caribbean enough. You insult non racist White people, by finding stupid things to negate their points on your perceptions of Black people and your authority on us, like their music experience.

You’re a racist misogynistic fetishist, who likes his Black but only in ways that entertain you, anything else offends you, anything that you don’t find entertaining, anything that doesn’t titillate you. You fight for the Black Pop aesthetic, twerkin (modern Pop culture), Beyonce’s brand of Blackness (modern Pop artist). You’ll insult Black movement icons by judging their right to defend themselves and their families because they didn’t conform to the passive brand of Blackness you like, you’ll insult Black music icons like Lauryn Hill critique her saying she’s no Beyonce, measuring her by the Blackness you like, inform us Janelle Monae will soon be twerkin, it’s only natural for her.

You’ll tell me I don’t matter, that none of us people of colour on here matter, you’ll insult me, backtrack and say you didn’t attack us and tell us what and how we should be thinking. You’re creepy, you feel entitled to lead Black opinions, sitting on your high appropriated horse. And I do not wish to ever speak with you on this blog again.

^^^
* you too would “fight deep in the trenches” to also freely wear thongs on the beach,
* but in the next breath
* a prude, uptight, White, as you suggest.
* 9-10 year old Black girls turned, around, bent over, in little cut off shorts, jiggling their bottoms with a camera coming in from bellow capturing close ups of their child bottom cheeks in her music video.
* You protest Brazil’s state of being
* I post a huge survey
* after you claim “hardly anyone thinks anything of it, here.”
* icons likr Lauryn Hill, critique her by saying she’s no Beyonce,

“BR, I handed you your head on a platter bringing in video after video of differant African countries having dances that had moves like twerking , that werent affected by modern vídeos, that is absurd on your part…

Why does Brazil have baile funk that has very similar moves?”

Linda says,

I’ll keep this simple, BR — you are full of Sh’t!!! What you just wrote is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard

Baile funk!? are you nuts??

That is nothing more than Brazil’s version of dancehall — Jamaica and every flippin Caribbean island does dancehall…please stop the madness. I’m not white or American… you are not impressing me with your fascination of Brazilians

You wish you handed me something on a platter but the only thing I got from you was more garbage that keeps stinking up this blog.

I’m not Blind BR… I watched your videos and saw African women doing modern day “twerking” incorporated into their traditional dance moves.

and that’s what you brought in also – Club dancers – notice all the men in the background.. you brought in flippin African strip clubs.. even the muslims have strip clubs, except their women are fully dressed when they bend over and a’s clap.

you need to stop, because it is really pathetic having to listen to you act like you know more about black people than black people themselves.

take your disrespectful ranting and raving to someone else.

and I’m not mad at you by the way, I just think you should learn when to slow down and pipe down… you are not a racist but you are delusional if you think you can teach black/brown people about themselves or their African-descended heritage.

you know Baile Funk is nothing more than Brazil’s version of “Miami Bass” mixed in with other styles of music from America and the Caribbean (like calypso)

Brazilian Funk: From the Favelas to the Villas

“Everything started with the birth of Hip Hop in the US. Producers from the favelas were deeply influenced by the early Hip Hop sound from Africa Bambaataa (aka DJ Kevin Donovan from the Bronx) and the late American Funk from the 80s from where it inherited one part of its name.

The new wave of sounds from Florida and the more Electronic Miami Bass also shaped the genre. The late electronic music addition remains a strong a component of the movement.”

you want to come in here and once again Act like you know “everything there is to know” about African descended people, black/brown countries, and black/brown cultures to try and show me and everyone else up… cut it out, BR… it’s not a good look.

Linda, once again, you show your naiveness …and , lets get it straight, you could drop the whole Caribean inside Brazil

There are states that have more Afro diasporic culture than Jamaica

What your total ignorance if Brazil demonstrates is , ive seen exactly the moves of twerking in rebolado moves from passistas in samba…way before dance hall , or funk dancing…

So , I know anyone who is uptight about twerking, would be uptight about rebolado moves from bare booty samba passistas, so your little curse tirade…right back at you…and ive worked with passistas in Los Angeles , and have sights to put on performances in your área in the next few years…so , your uptight hangups represent ignorant mentalities that exist in your área, and let me guarantee , anyone like you who comes near us with that crap wont have the safety of a blog to hide behind. And you dont have the preserverance to prevail , you or anyone else on here

Your problem Linda , is its great when you can be the queen if reggae tron , but , if some black women are less inhibeted than you , you cant handle it …they become heauxs to you…in your backgroud , you have been taught what is bad , and , its fine if you do it , but , a little more uninibition from another woman , dancing a style you decide to regect and she is a heuax

And , you are intimidated by Brazil , and should be, the women are much less inhibeted about their bodies , that is where the bare bootie is , more than Miami, or Jamajca…your cursing and fuming about Brazil only points out your insecurity….and your cursing of Brazil…well , Brazil sends it right back at you…double…how demeaning of you…take your hang ups and stuff them

Monroe , you just tell the BBC guy to throw it in the trash can , dont patronise me with that lame bs …Im an a tive player right now , and that means I think I can bury your favorite artist under the table. And your BBC contact would get buried by some of the bass players on that cd…ive reheasred next to Earth Wind and Fire, and played with some of their members, I know exactly their capabilities…so spare me, ive had lots of air play …just recently on a jazz release

What this really amounts to is a small group of women , who happen to be black , hiding under the veneer of being concerned about black womens image, wraping themselves up in white militant womens lib sexual objectification rhetoric, that is guarenteed to surpress , and bury black culture

I anialated Lindas ridiculous claim that dances in Africa are influenced by vídeos, country after country …Monroe conveniantly left huge amounts of video links out , as well as a long list of countries who banned black culture, for the exact same reasons you hear them saying

the same way Josephine Baker has moves similar to passistas, passistas have rebolado moves that pre date dance hall, but its all just prostitution and heauxs to Linda and Monroe

For sure , I dont know what it is like to be a black woman , who wants to express her culture , and have other black woman and one brown tell her she is a heaux for doing it…

But I know profesional dancers who do moves exactly described in twerking , and , to hear these criticisms is disgusting and cowardly..because , I know Linda doesnt have the guts to say it to a dancers face…in Brazil , she will end up wiping the saliva off her face

Large answer to you in moderation, Linda, and Monroe but the short answer about your curse tirade , Linda , is , right back at you.and Brazil passes it right back at you , and the women you call heauxs, right back at you…double…..I anialated your African theory, I buried it…Monroe conveniantly leaves the links out , and the links about huge amounts of countries banning black culture for exactly the reasons you are cackling about…if Abagond allows it to pass,ive addressed your bs

Monroe , you havent produced one phrase I said that was racist…tell, your contact to throw it in the garbage , dont patronise me with that lame bs

If Abagond allow my post to pass ive addressed that

What is really going on here is a group of women , who happen to be black, are hiding under the veneer of being concerned for black womens image, but are really just wraping themselves up in white militant womens lib sexual objectification rhetoric, which can destroy black culture…

Abagond, for a columbia grad, that is the lamest analogy ive ever seen…

You know the only way I can talk to you about it is to say, I was so lucky to catch John Coltrane with Mccoy Tyner, Elvin Jones and Jimmy Garrison on TV the other night , playing cuts from A Love Supreme, rare footage…

Do you know anything about John Coltrane? And you would compare that to bluegrass?

I mean , what could the problem be, Abagond? The implication that if Linda has the guts to get in some if the dancers faces I have worked with , and called them heauxs , she will be wiping saliva off her face?

Don’t worry, I don’t literally mean all White people. I was referring to the product Blackness has become. A commercialised modern sensational c00n show that uses a cartoon mass appeal version of Blackness that is extremely profitable and also bought as what Black people really are as opposed to human beings.

@Linda

You will be wasting your time in responding. We’re just White women. Pioneer Black feminsts like Bell Hooks who’ve dedicated their lives to deconstructing the issue of the way Blackness, womanhood, Black manhood and Black womanhood has been condensed into these very stereotypes weren’t women who rose up at White supremacy shrinking their images, attacking mainstream feminist exclusion of their narrative as poc and for Black women, as double minorities, first and foremost, they were just trying to be White women. I respectfully agree to disagree with you here. This right here, the things he’s saying, his perceptions and his condescending, are the very definition of what racism is nowadays. Not the kkk brand of days gone by.

Yeah , Im not black , and , I wonder how a black woman who loves her culture and wants to express it , and gets self esteem from it , would feel to have black women and one brown tell her she is a heuax for it…

I think its disgusting …and , i dont tell anyone how to feel about there history , Im telling you you are full of crap for implicating other black women as heauxs and prostitutes…

I Wikipédia your tired theories off the map , you dont even know about strip history

your dancers, I’m sure are nice ladies and they are dancers by profession–good for them

To show how dumb you are being, you seem to forget that as a Caribbean woman, I participate and enjoy going to My Countries Carnivals,

where the women are all provocatavely dressed, aka meaning they are dressed like “heauxs” and No one cares because that’s what Carnival is all about…and we all dance and enjoy ourselves.

and to show how really white you are, you are sitting getting mad because I said “twerking” is a heaux dance…it IS a heaux dance and if any of your dancers twerk, then they too are doing a Heauxs dance…

if you are black by osmosis, then you ought to know how the word is being applied, instead you are frothing at the mouth at a common slang word.

and PS your statement about me “wiping off saliva” is really juvenile, grow up, old man!

No , you wrap yourself in white womens lib sexual objectification rhetoric, if you were really sympathetic to black culture , you would see the links I brought in of all the countries who banned black culture for the same reasons you are cackling about…inadressed your lameness in the statement moderaded , I hate to waste my time writing it again, but to tip you off ,myou dont know squat about Brazil ,and you are right to feel envious , they are far more sensual than you know

And for your ignorance, twerking moves can be seen in older style rebolado moves, a part of samba style , with bare bootie, way before dance hall

You dont know about the cultures you are ready to call heauxs , the origins , the parralel developements,you are good at cursing and running off at the mouth

Spot on about mento and the other…you know your own culture just not much about Brazil

You know , Im an immigrant, I made it a point to go back and learn about some if the Afro diasporic cultures in Brazil, the history , origins, there is too much to learn everything , you could drop the whole Caribean basin in Brazil, there are states with more black culture than Jamaica…knowing this history gives me great love and affinity for the culture, the nano second I become anti Brazilian Ill be gone

You admit anti Americanism , but you are a cultural dolt when it comes to understanding black American culture pre sixties…a blank space..so you are only there for the money? Maybe if you learned more about the history of the culture , instead of only political rhetoric , you might learn some afinity, and not lash out at black American thinking when it gets down to the nitty gritty…there is no one black American thinking

I never mixed anything up , only you get mixed up trying to tell me how big Agentinas black population is , which me saying pockets was spot on

Once again, che sais racist remarks, Monroe, he slerps around with black women as sex objects, Im in a long long term relationship , something you know squat about , and you imply fetish…bell books is worth squat if that is the conclusion you come to

When political rhetoric a d agendas start to be used , to judge how people dance, for sure culture will end up being destroyed and banned

Bell Hooks work is nothing to the centuries and world wide condemnation of black culture, mostly dances, for the same reasons these gaggling geese are running off…why dont you research that? The movement is saturasted with political rhetoric now ,decades old , with no cultural substance, and actualy dismissing some culture

Im not telling anyone how to think, what culture to practice, but back the Hades off of condeming black women for dancing, and calling them heauxs and prostitutes

for whatever reason, you keep dragging them into the conversation when we are discussing black people… you keep discussing them like they represent black people and true Africans… they don’t

Come back to me with your nonsense the day Brazil gets a Real black president, when black people are the majority on TV, when black/brown people own more than 45% of the businesses in Brazil… AKA when black/brown people are running things in Brazil… the way we do in Jamaica

that’s when Brazil can be pushed up as the “black Utopia” -until then, sit down old man!

That John Coltrane was an amazing musician hardly invalidates my analogy.

Side note: If bluegrass music were one of the few paths to fame and fortune open to Whites, you can be sure it would have some amazing musicians, that bluegrass itself would be taken to another level.

As Ebony points out, you have a very narrow idea of Black people, one that fits well within White stereotypes (Blacks as musical, sexualized, uninhibited, entertaining, politically subservient to Whites, etc). It is so narrow that it becomes dehumanizing. It has room for dancers and musicians, but not for professors or political activists. Twerking: in. Bell hooks: out.

“BR,I never mixed anything up , only you get mixed up trying to tell me how big Agentinas black population is , which me saying pockets was spot on”

Linda says,

See, now you are stepping into “liar” territory because I never said that modern day Argentina has a large black population.

I said, they USED to have a large black population and the Africans were systematically cleansed out by genocide, through assimilation (aka, they intermixed their way into oblivion) and by illness and war.

If you are going to try to bring in old arguments to try and save face and further stroke your huge EGO, then get it right, BR.

our only conversation concerning Argentina:

Linda says in your question as to what happened to the African slaves in the middle east: “Also, I don’t know much about the subject, as to what happened to the black African slaves — but my understanding is that they got absorbed into society (like what happened in Argentina)”

“that is why I brought up Argentina, because the black African slaves (women) in Argentina intermixed their way out existance;
the men were sent to fight/die in Paraguay/Uruguay or ran off to Brazil.

that is why you rarely see a real “black” African phenotype Argentinian — but the African gene lives on in the mixed race Argentinians who believe they are “white”
Argentinian history does not really like to address this assimilation — so in a sense, the black population has been both written and bred out of history.”

So, in my response to you, I point blank stated that “the black African slaves either intermixed out of existence or died off in war and were also written out of history” –any thinking person would take this to mean that there is not a large population of black people in Argentina

but not you! somehow, YOU managed to read in those phrases that “Linda says there are alot of black people in Argentina??!” — reading comprehension 101

get out of here, BR.. find the phrase where I say there are “A LOT of black people in Argentina or a large population of black people in Argentina”

you won’t, so you need to stop telling lies on me and stop patting yourself on the back regarding an argument we did not really have or that you “won”

Linda, you argued me to death, not me , in Argentina, I said the same thing and you and Bulanic went out of your way ti just argue..to pat each other in the back

Linda , Ill break it down to you, you said it yourself, for you , and many hispanics in the Caribean and South America, and people in Brazil, carnival is exactly when everyone gets their freak on…everyone dresses provacitivly, and dances , like they dont the rest of the year, dances that you…and your father, lable bad , naughty, and heuax dancing…and in Brazil, for that mili second , they allow real afro Brazilian culture to come through…because they, you, associate it with heauxs , and acting bad…you have a strict up bringing, with a Hispanic father, you actualy have had to deal with this inner conflict , and that is affecting your outlook , and makes critical of twerking…talk about relative to Hispanic Heritage, the dynamic of the strict Hispanic father, raging of the morals of carnival , and daughters running and sneaking out to dance afro diasporic dances is Classic …

Brazil? Oh Hades yes, you so badly need the Brazilian perspective exactly because it is so huge and plays out the dynamics in a big way, a tremendous education exactly because you see the same dynamics in play , to see how it plays out…and compare it…how else can I tell you ive seen exact moves you describe in twerking in samba that is older than dance hall? I can prove it in one of my vídeos….how else could I tell you about baile funk? Paralel , they have developed their own expresion of it…look , reggae is severly informed by funk scratch guitar technique and drum kit back beats, but , they twisted it their way…baile funk is like that

So its like all the dynamics we talk about , are going on in Brazil , including what you mentioned…

Bell Hooks is absolutly important, and, the political agenda has been saturated , how can you deny it with towering infernos of anti interracial sex diadrades dominating the comments…but there is a huge cultural gap…forget color for a minute, in this digital age , there is a huge cultural gap , now put black culture in the equation….a huge void of space…for sure from whites…huh, can I get an agreement on that? They have no idea of the value and concepts going on in black culture….but , I sure detect a void in black cultural history, its origins , its collective represion….Bell Hooks doesnt capture this , and her generation destroyed some black cultures…

But if Monroe calls me a racist mysiginist , using standards she got from the feminist play book about sexual objectification , and Im not any way talking about defences against being raped or being co erced into sex , and can think Im relating to samba dancers as prostitutes and for sex , which I never had sex with those dancers, Bell Hooks is good for nothing to her…if that is where she got that

If we want to say I dont know how black people think, I sure can say , you dont know how white people think , and , this sexual objectification , dancing like heauxs, you bet your bottom dollor, that cackling sounds like a bunch of white people who are uptight about black dancing….and ive been trying over various threads to let you and everyone know exactly how white people think and what the problem is …you know?

And also , Abagond, about your analogy, you are missing something, and here is what it is…

You have to put it like , I would be saying , female opera singers , when they open their mouths s , and their tongues swirl , sure would be good for something , they are like heauxs ….and , you would step in , and say I dont know my own culture…how profound western harmonic progresion is from Bach , Mozart , Bheetovan, Debussy, Bartoc, the operas of Verdi, and the incredible discipline the opera singers have to have…

Any great American white music usualy is on a black American foundation so that isnt a good example

Abagond, there’s no point wasting your time. He doesn’t or refuses to understand. He can insult Jamaica, not understand why talk of the service of providing mental wel being and a free public strip club is reducing these women to a service, not understand why psychoanalysing the affect Hispanic parentage, or talk of freaky dancing being natural despite the mapouka vs. modern raunchy dances and a natural Black state for Linda, is racist. Bell Hooks deconstructing this behavior, this outlook, is White. Bell is White, I’m White. I should be in a thong slapping my bottom cheeks together, if I’m not, I’m resisting my natural Black genes. my Black instincts, new y0ut()be videos prove it. My conversation on the children of my ethnicity not bending over jiggling their bottoms with close up shots is offensive. My talk of wanting more diversity in Black imagery is offensive, because I’m resisting all that we are, we’re nothing more and the suggestijn that we are is offensive and suffocating the only thing Blackness is, true Blackness.

No , you just shouldnt be so quick ti be judging dancers and calling them prostitutes , or acusing me of thinking that way…

Im as in favor of black females being portrayed in Al, ways possible , I accept black females in all ways possible , including your point of view, but , I will defend the real black people I know , who are real life , and they fit all your descriptions you describe , yet are high level artists , and absolutly dont deserve to be called these names

What kind of description of me expecting you to do this or that ? You have to be kidding me…I have no expectations of you doing anything …what is wrong with you? Stop implying I think passistas are prostitutes..you are just playing silly games…I dont want you to do anything , or anyone else to change their lives…but you have no right judging other lives

You DO NOT accept the views of Black people because you police them, this is how this entire argument started. If you accepted varying views you wouldn’t attack Black people who don’t have the exact same, one dimensional views of Blackness as you. No one has spoken about the women in your life at any point in time. No one has labelled them pr0stitues. I have described your description of the service they do for you, “not needing a strip club, they like it when I stare, they want it, they’re there for me, they provide mental well being, there nudity helps me to respect them,” as reducing them to pr0stitutes, women who serve you with their nude bodies.

You obviously can’t read. You’re completely unable to compute points and respond. You respond to things that haven’t been said.
You initiate attacking people and then accuse them of attacking you or people you know.

Go put on a th0ng and shake your backside, go pretend to be what you think of Black people, go put on Blackface and shake it for a White man just like you. Creepy racist misogynist.

You came in to tell me what I should and should not think and say and then turn and say you’re not telling me what to do. Creepy exploitative, racist, misogynistic, racialist, appropriating, cultural reductionist, fetishist.

Bell Hooks has spent her life’s work describing people like you using your lives to promote your disgusting perception of what Blackness is, for profit whether financial or to entertain your sick fetishist appetite. Disgusting.

What are you gonna do? Spit on me? Tell me I’m White? I’m not truly Black because I see Blackness as diverse? Pretend you didn’t begin attacking me, pretend and project through the alternate reality you’re living in that I actually came at you out of the blue? Maybe you’ll tell me to kiss your backside again, or that I don’t matter. Go on, I know you can’t resist.

“But most whites who seem well-meaning are not, not deep down. It is an act to maintain their self-image as being Basically Good.

How I know: I used to think most whites were well-meaning but were racist because they just did not know any better – that if you pointed out their mistake the scales would fall from their eyes and they would say, “Wow, you are so right!” But instead you get anger, hatred, scripted denials, blame-shifting, Repeatedly Missing the Point, Changing the Subject and that strange deer-in-the-headlights look on their face.”

oh sheesh he did it (ie made the lexicon of woe)! wow i was really kinda kidding but it’s like a bunch of lawyers up in here ah and this point from a year and a half ago we were making with a troll and you popped in with this to say, wow.

actually i wasn’t really going off on br but just the administrative overhead is amazing, i couldn’t imagine an oral dissertation for a phd to be more arduous but i wouldn’t know about that. I was more referring to i think it was an older thread that had like 0 comments it was how many times certain words came up in the bible? I think, that was what was bouncing around in my head

personally i just found a real resonance to what i have observed and been told (in a limited sense) of my new partner, ie domestic abuse, and what i did, i mean she directly asked me, since it is a part of her story even recently, and what is going on right now in the nfl, i mean on monday night espn sportscenter must have let a maximum of 92 seconds pass between references to adrian peterson mostly, it is true how the next big thing takes the last thing off the radar,…. and it all tied in to drunk americans fighting with the isis thread it just worked for me man i mean that is ultimate polemics and bs on one hand but on the other a glimpse of the ‘tom’ gaze on the nature of mankind…,

I guess teddybearchubs musta had a good portion of a 12 pack because he started talking to me here about the substance abuse portion i was on about on the ray rice thread and it just kind of wound up like the “welcome to hispanic heritage month” thread.

it always drives me to apoplexy if people talk about me when, like, i’m right there? but br and i have well you know white guy with a black girl thing in common, obviously we take divergent paths at that point politically and career wise but… i got nothin against him except his rabid rigidity there is a term for it

I think this thread has proven certain things about certain (white) men.

If my memory does not fail here, I was also, along with being called a commie (naturally), very “up-tight” with nudity according this one “gentleman”.

And that was pretty funny since I grew up in a sauna culture of Finland were whole families, friends, relatives etc. do go to sauna and bath together totally nude once a week all year around WITHOUT any sexual implications.

And, as we are talking about the sexualisation of the black culture, the same thing has happened for the sauna culture. Just think about the image you get into your head when hearing the word Sauna. 😀

For finns sauna was semi-holy place. You cleaned your body and your soul. It was a communal thing, it could very private thing for soul searching, people were born in saunas, like my own father.

And think about the sauna today 😀 Not the same.

So somewhere begins this way of thinking which connects nudity with sex, dancing with sex and particulary black women with sex. Nothing else. There are no intelligent, dignified, self-assured and self-reliant black women. No. They are objects from the childhood onwards. They are semi-savages who twerk and dance and flash their flesh on the tropical beaches for older white mans pleasure.

In his own mind this white man explains his thinking as being authentic and real. I’ve seen this dozens of times: “It is really not downgrading, it is really not racist, I respect these women who dance for me… I am IN their culture. When I use my wealth and white privilidge, western curriencies and power that comes along with it, and BUY a woman in some third world country for myself, that proves I am not a racist. I am in “interracial relationships”. Yes, I am in “love” with all these exotiq ladies here…”

That is a white mans dream. That is the white mans fantasy. Saviour. Ruler. Allmighty. That is why certain men, like BR here, can believe that there is nothing wrong when little children shake their behinds for him or that he is peeping tom in the beach, or that his idea of a “black culture” consists mainly black “dancers” for HIS pleasure.

That is why men like him have the audacity to say straight on to a black woman that she does not know her black culture. Because he, The White Superman, the godlike male, knows that black culture is what he wants and he wants those black women shut up and start twerkin for him, in thongs please. And lets play some jazz on it so it becomes more stylish.

Here is a guy trying to comment on my experiances with black culture that he has total ignorance of

He portrays it as using my wealth or power , when in fact , Im going up against wealth and power to book presentations , and banging against racism and prejudice , with the same ignorance I see on here

This coming from a guy who thinks shaved female genital área is implying little boys , that is sick…any one who would pay attention to his sexual analisis has rocks in their sexual orientation

Ive spent huge time in the dance world, in new york , Chicago , Rio, only perverse thinking like Sams tries to break it down as nudity is the central force…that is the hang ups here, when dancers imply nudity, they are bad…

Monroe, from someone who totaly mixed up who I am on the comment policy thread, what in gods name makes you think you can analise how I feel about these dancers ? you pulled that out of your rear end…

You just use calling someone a racist as a weapon against someone who sees through your bs..then you colaborate with a bundao like Sam , as though he knows anything about black culture or the dance world …this is the real a hole who thinks he knows all about America, this merda for brains always sais this and that only happens in America when five times , I have to remind him about Brazil…

Your take on twerking is white woman sexual objectification personified, go suk on it and criam your petty shallow accuasations…

In truth you all tried to divert from the real conflict going on , your tone when you came in on the comment policy was acuasatory , negative and mixed up, I called you out on it and you came right over here where Sam launches coincidentaly at the same time into an ah hominem attack like diarréia of the mouth….screw both you pricks for that…you too Kiwi , dont play liar, you miserable joke

Abagond, now you are in bs land , I debunked Anas thread spot in ,and your other referances are ridiculous , like when you also have agreed about the Arab Trader argument…you really are reaching to compensaste for your own ignorance , dont demean yourself anymore than you already have

Like your knowledge of black American culture was in the 1949 thread, along with Monroes knowledge of Jessie Williams…há há, give me break…I mean you have to bring it to the table , not act all offended im calling you out….I mean Sam cant bring squat to the table about black culture , but he is spouting off like sweating turd as though his tired analisis has any validity

And Kiwi, wtf is wrong with you , I never associeted mosh with terrorists or Jefe as a foreigner , …that is just the punk you are, a broken record about anti interracial sex , calling anyone anti Asian with no evidence , that really is bs on your part

And you agree with that bs Abagond…also yelliw perill didnt start the war against Japan , that is a lie….lies are getting good play on here lately

Abagond , I catagoricly disagree with all of your referances to what you think I am ir how I think…I challenge you to bring one statement of mine that fits it…not some twisted analisis of what you manipulate how you think I said it like Monroe..

This is a very shallow , petty game going on here , trying to railroad what I am saying into racism , islamiphobia and anti Asian, based on the lies flowing

Well, unlike you, I do not pretend to be an expert on black culture or black life or black womens lives in general. There is a very simple reason for it: I am not black. And since you are either, no matter how much jazz you play or how many black womens booties you watch, you really are not in position to tell any black person, not to mention the black women, what their lives are about, what is their culture or what is their sexuality. Period.

As for the nudity issue, which, by the way, you have brought up again and again as some central piece of black culture, I assume I have seen more nude humanbeings than you have ever seen. I have seen nude people from the time I was a toddler, of all ages, all shapes and sizes, both sexes etc. And yes, completely stark naked, without any thongs or sprongs. And guess what? With no sexual connotations or implications at all. Isn’t that pervert?

For you the sexuality, as you have pointed out several times, is a essential part of black women. They are, in your words, “sensual” beings who live and dance and propably cook for sexualitys sake. But essentially, for you and for your pleasure. Never mind what they think. Than means nothing. After all, you have experience of “black culture” so you know better than black women themselves what they are and what it is all about. And, like you have brought up many many times, black women are there for their sexuality, “sensuality”, and nothing else. They dance and hop around shaking their booty, that is all. Right…

You have revealed yourself, my friend. You have exposed yourself. You are the epitome of the Ugly White Man. An older white man, living in third world country, having a native wife, enjoying all those booties around, rejoycing the scene of under age children twerkin for your fun, and explaining all that as “knowing the black culture”.

Just like any colonial master you know better than your subjects, pardon me, objects, what want and feel and think. You say to them that you know their culture better than they do. You know what is good for them. You know what is their place. And you can call them with degratory names, insult them, call them liars and ingnoramouses if they protest or say something which you do not approve.

That, my friend, is the very attitude, the world vision, of the Ugly White Man. The master, the boss man, the one whose opinions are the Truth and whose fantasies are the fact. And that is what this whole blog is all about.

Your hysteria of communism, which collapsed 22 years ago, is no mistake. You hysteria about feminism is not a co-incident either. They are part of your misogynist racist mindset, the world view of the Ugly White Man, the Colonial Master, the Slave Master, the Lord.

Sam goes to Harlem three or four months and its like a Safari for him…give this man a girl scout cookie…its like he can then analise my relationship with black people…this is a real dr Phil here…I mean this is a real psycho analist

His analisis is like a stiff bloc of wood you put eyes nose and face on , a real dip stiff stick ….

This is a guy that sais the cia started everything…
Thinks shaved genital áreas on a woman implies pubecant boys…I think that is sick
Thinks European clássical music isnt very relevant and not many people listen to it
He is a muckraking political hack , defending meglomaniacs like che

Sam said I dont care about poor people…what has Sam done for poor people?he must think cutting down America and touting che is his contribution

I would like to know, because I have made contributions , and done benifits, but most recently , Im very proud to have sent drum equipment to two young drummers , one young man and one young women. the young man is lead dancer for coco raízes de arco verde, and the young lady is the daughter of Bira Reis, who put out an incredible DVD of ketu sticking in candomble. Both people seriously involved in deep afro diasporic culture…Im proud of that, to be helping young black drummers who are deeply involved in afro diasporic culture

And he has the disgusting nérve to talk about my mixed race family…joining anti interracial insults with many many otherson here..and he cant even keep a long term relationship with a woman…this sob knows nothing of afro diasporic culture , yet feels he is qualified to insult my connections to afro diasporic culture…which are valid real life , not blog pond scum running off at the mouth

This is a Classic bser….because I have grown up in black American culture, I went the extra mile to learn afro diasporic cultures outside of the pop culture I was raised in…I went the extra mile to immerse myself into Brazilian culture, to learn many styles, to put in hours and hours and years and decades to gain knowledge….that Sam knows absolutly nothing about…yet he sits back and pulls his psycho analisis right out of his rear end, and runs diarréia of the mouth

You couldnt use that analisis to wipe your rear end as toilet paper

And teamed up with Monroe to create a diversion from the plagarising issue

This analisis is pond scum , that only makes him look like junge jim trying to pass his girl scout days in Harlem as his expertise to tell a fantacy tale

Sam , you cant even keep a relationship with a woman , wow give you a brownie for being around nudity in your youth, I swam naked with women too, and let me tell you, it sure isnt like a Brazilian beach….

And what can I say, Im an artist, ive worked with all kinds of dancers , ive taken class with them and undressed in the co ed dressing rooms , its part of artístic life…get over it , we dont have hang ups like you with female shaved genitália ..

And I learned all I know about jazz from black people, its not me, Im just passing the message…

I deal with people one on one, you seem to think since Im a white American , I dont have a right to disagree with someone of a differant color

You dont bs with culture, either you know a culture or dont, people like you should get off your duff and learn something about black American culture…you sound like mush brains trying to peg me , you dont have enough hours…go stuff it , you suk

Kiwi , I never disagreed with Matari on that…besides lying about me saying mosh was associeted with terrorists, which is total bs, and its bs I ever thought Jefe was a foreigner and you did say I was hiding behind my wife and family, you also called me a mysiginist ….that is funny coming from a guy who has bashed Asian American women on a regular basis, especialy your aunts…I mean the hypocracy is boggling

Hey ignorant Sam, Brazil has the 8 Th largest economy in the world, your depiction of it as a third world country is disgusting, and just shows what a muckraking hack you are…and communism isnt dead there…do you revel in your ignorance? Wallow in it like a pig in the mud? Rolling in excrement , spewing your stink like it is fact?

Its just amazing the lies, the muckraking , the distortions , straw man, ad hominems you see passing here…

I mean Monroe doesnt want to learn about Jesse Williams….I cant make this up…and people acuse me of lording over them…you know about the history and origins of people and their cultures or you dont …Jessie Williams indeed….quit insulting my intelligence…Im suposed to feel I am the colonial ugly white man who hurt peoples little feelings because I have gone the extra mile , put hours , years and decades to learn and become knowledgable about certain aspects of black culture?

Man up , Abagond , reffering your past posts to hide your ignorance of culture is demeaning, my gosh , jazz history is new york history also , jazz is black history in new york…dont play some altruistic confronted wounded individual because I happen to know a lot about black American culture

And some if them are relevant important posts that only look bad if you try to direct it at me when it doesnt stick

Bring me one phrase I said that fits, not anyones manipulating strawman building , or out right lie version of what I said….I said five times twerking wasnt an African traditional dance , I said many African countries have dances that have moves that resemble it , as does Brazil, and I proved it

Just bring one actual quote that fits these ad hominems attacks….just bring it up and Ill discuss it with you , not twisted paraphrasing my meanings…Kiwi , bring up the quote I said mosh was a terrorist…put up or keep your trap shut, you did this before , its dirty

Archie Bunker wouldnt have been bringing in links that showed the complexity of the Afghanistan , Pakistan , Índia triangle

It’s best to scroll past BR’s posts if you find them to be racist, misogynistic, culturally insensitive or condescendingly offensive. I’m just going to do that from now on.

@Kiwi

I agree, he’s accused me of insulting his wife repeatedly and yet I’ve never mentioned her. He behaves as Abagond mentioned with the faux “well meaning White.” He argues points that aren’t mentioned, skips those that are, jumps over his insults when confronted with them and then invents insults towards him or his wife that were never said.
@Sam

You’re wasting your time. You’ll only be insulted. After being attacked in the comment thread just for asking about formerly banned commenters coming back in the hopes that an individual who seemed to be going that way would eventually be allowed back after a time, and, thinking on the things you said. Things that had sat uncomfortably in my gut since my first confrontation with him, I realised this isn’t right, this is worse than Biff or any other racist on the blog, I shouldn’t be spoken to about my ethnicity and gender like this! Thank-you. I’ve never encountered anyone like this before so it took me a minute to really understand why it was making me feel so uncomfortable.

“BR,
and your father, lable bad , naughty, and heuax dancing…and in Brazil, for that mili second , they allow real afro Brazilian culture to come through…because they, you, associate it with heauxs , and acting bad…you have a strict up bringing, with a Hispanic father, you actualy have had to deal with this inner conflict , and that is affecting your outlook , and makes critical of twerking”

Linda says,

BR, BR, BR… dear lord, please Stop… you got the nerve to tell Sam about analyzing someone, when you had the audacity to actually put this garbage to print…are you serious?!!

you can keep the arm chair psycho analysis because you don’t know me, my father, or anything about my upbringing.

You need to let this go because you and I will never agree… I call things the way I see them: Twerking is a Heaux dance, and if anyone is twerking, they’re doing a Heaux dance… point blank, that’s it and all that was written.

PS, as I mentioned, you need to catch up on current black American slang, the word “heaux” is used in a variety of ways… it doesn’t have to literally mean “prostitute”..

since you like Miami so much, have you never heard the song “I’m a Truz ‘N’ Vogues Heaux” by Gucci Crew II — (I’m sure your Baile Funk DJs know it)

Josephine baker wore a banana skirt, danced hunched over to look primitive, like a m0nkey to entertain her White audience, that’s all.
…………………….
BR said

Who are you to judge what I see with Josephine Baker. Your all political rhetoric, no substance. Wrapped up in White woman’s lib.

Who needs the strip club. I don’t want to talk to them, I just look, they want it, they give me permission. It helps me respect them, they love it. They give me mental well being. It’s a cure, you won’t need any psychologist.
You’re just anti interracial s-x. How can you accuse me of seeing these women as prostitues?

But, for National Hispanic Heritage Month, it would be nice to see some things that deal specifically with the United States, eg, all the possessions gained as a result of the Spanish-American war, its Spanish history and its impact on those places and the mainland USA, ie,
– Cuba
– Puerto Rico
– Philippines
– Guam

3. Jezebel stereotype: Black women as sexualized, uninhibited, putting their bare booties on display for your pleasure, etc. Those who do not like that you call “uptight” and compare them to Whites. Because, you know, Whites have a natural sense of modesty, Blacks do not.

5. The Wigger Fallacy: You see being Black as mainly a cultural thing, which allows you to play the Blacker Than Thou game, setting up your White self as the judge of the Blackness of actual Black people.

6. Well-meaning Whites: What I quoted from that post, written two years ago, describes your behaviour on this thread to a tee:

“But most whites who seem well-meaning are not, not deep down. It is an act to maintain their self-image as being Basically Good.

How I know: I used to think most whites were well-meaning but were racist because they just did not know any better – that if you pointed out their mistake the scales would fall from their eyes and they would say, “Wow, you are so right!” But instead you get anger, hatred, scripted denials, blame-shifting, Repeatedly Missing the Point, Changing the Subject and that strange deer-in-the-headlights look on their face.”

Even over the sheer lack of critical thinking when it comes to statements where specific character traits are attached to racex or ethnicity.

Hispanics= conservative
Blacks= nudist, twerking, genital stimulating, voodoo hedonists
So, being Black and Hispanic= “you poor thing, I know that I know that you must have grown up terribly conflicted, it must have been hard for you.

I’ve actually never encountered this kind of thing before, I didn’t think someone would openly profess those kinds of views unless they’re one of those out and out White supremacists.

So Sam gets to put up his girl scout Safari in Harlem point of view , demeaning my relationship with my wife , and profesional dancers , in a cartoonish felix the cat 1930 jungle jim depiction? Trying to demean and degrade my family life?

And you delete my statement? If you were fair, you would take his bs depiction off too…

Bs to every point you made…first , I debunked your continued bringing up Anás article , with your aluding to sexual fantasies , big time, yet you continue to alude to it…that you said before

White sence of modesty? Are you serious? Are you that ignorant? Im reffering to their uptightness…your posts dont aply, like your Arab Trader post..you cant even face the reality Im talking about , because you are stuck in your own provincial point of view…Hades yes m and thank god , Brazil is advanced over your thinking..ahh does uptight make you feel bad? How about uncomfortable?Can you handle that better? Because, the America , British concepts are backwards and horrible…yes , I can go to a beach and see drop dead gorgous women , near naked, in bikinis more sensual than Victoria secret , and be able to view them , with out people like you and these commenters breathing down our necks with their uncomfortability …most of our passista presentations have been in shopping malls and hotels, one show , a passista arrived with her breasts exposed…its in one of my clips…this is part of the culture…you cant touch it with your uncomfortability…get far away

My best freinds? It goes deeper than you could ever imagin, and , people talk about their families all the time…Kiwi never stops talking about his aunts…it just so happens when talking about Afro diasporic culture, my wife is a living breathing example ..and that is why I referance her, sometimes…I dont do it as often as you make out…people attack me like Monroe and stiff oaf Sam , and bring my family into it…you just take my posibility if defence away from this malicous bs…if you dont put my post back, I acuse you of gross unfairness and manipulating this …after all , it was a perfect diversion from the plagarism issue…and it was all ad hominems on me…that you let run

No, I dont see being black as a cultural thing, I have carefully used the word culture , to explicidly make it clear that is what I mean, over and over…ive said , black history isnt jazz, but jazz is black history… and , have also said many times , I dont know what it is like to be black, yet I can say I dont know what it is like to be a women, but , after 28 years of being with one woman , I know more what Monroe will be facing when she gets older , with child birth and menopause , than she does…

Exactly what you are saying to me would sound like me saying to you, how dare you write about western literature , you are black…how dare you tell me what you think it means….exact same thing..,wynton Marsalis could tel, me a lot about European clássical music…you are hiding behind the fact that you just havent educated yourself on these subjects…

Your misperceptiin of some black jezabel stereotype, is based on your uncomfortability with black female dancers in a state of nudity…you wouldnt acuse me of that watching nude ballet or a paz de deux when a couple does a duet that has many implications of sex positions..or, do I have to feel that watching the Alvin Aily dance company?.dont put your tired uncomfortabilities on me..black women are mostly portrayed as not the attractive standard…I am celibrating and embracing the highest leval of beauty mixed with high art that a black woman could be portrayed as…

This bs clichê about what is out there for my pleasure or not is the same shallow petty thing jungle jim girl scout tour of Harlem , Sam , implicates…this is a tired tactic ive seen many times by anti American a holes , who , the moment they find out Im on a Brazilia beach, they launch into unmitigated attacks on my sex life , start saying Im in a cabana, exploiting the local females…wealthy…I dont even have a car…how dare you , Sam , Monroe think you can comment in what gives me pleasure , or what my motivation for pleasure is? What nerve

Well meaning? I mean you could get some body coming or going like that , cant you? I could be too well meaning, too unwell meaning…how ever you want to shift it…the truth is , I treat each person as an individual..am I running the tone argument? We can amp the tone as far as Im concerned…I speak the the truth on my mind exactly the same way to anyone of any color…what makes you think Im trying to apease you? When I speak on race issues, Im speaking of my own huge experiance , about a huge number of individuals, people who meant something in my life, not the cyber blips in this blog…and I wont let cyber blips call dancers demeaning things

The r word ..you find something racist…dont slap bs on me…Monroe is trying to beat her dead horse thong issue into the ground…that has nothing to do with racism, same with what I feel about twerking..same with every issue she uses a fine tooth comb to try to find something racist that will stick …people are just throwing racist out at me as a weak excuse for getting their head handed to them on a platter

And I say to this inquisition, kiss my rear end…people have forfitted their right to call me racist…this is a disgrace to political activism

And I say to this inquisition, kiss my rear end…people have forfitted their right to call me racist…this is a disgrace to political activism

No thanks! I prefer rounded muscular buttocks with little or no hair on them, not some flat hairy ones which many white men such as yourself possess. Discussing buttock and who kisses them has nothing to do with politics. Many conservatives, for example, are into S&M and other such perversions. Now why don’t you go and twerk to your heart’s content on a Brazilian beach?

I was giving you the benafit of the doubt , about your father, sorry to your father…this means its coming directly from you, this statement about carnival and black culture dances and provacative dress , that is then labeled as heauxs …this is no psycho analises, scroll right up and see your words..this is where you are coming from , and why you call twerking dancers heauxs..dont play like its some current in style phrase , is f Brazil a current phrase ? Your aggresive position , cursing , effing Brazil , lets it known exactly where you are at…and you talk what is in style? The Niki Manage presentation on the VMA awards made twerking look like patty cake…Ocean drive , just the way the women dress , is more provacative than twerking…and I love it..yet you bang away at twerking…the critics on here are out of step…there is a deluge coming in and no one can stop it

And , I apreciate you not thinking Im a racist , and I say the exact same thing to you , when you say that about carnival and black dancing, I dont think you are a racist, but those words are the embodiment of racism in South Ametica , white South Americans going out for two weeks of carnival , looking on black cultural dances as for heauxs , and for sex, then , shutting down the rest of the year and surpressing that black culture…black female beauty looked down in , and the culture surpressed and buried

This is the fillet mignon topic Abagond could go into in Hispanic heritage month, to flush out the real serious racist cultural fault line in South America , but , its off his radar…again, I in no way acuse you of racism

Exactly how you put it is the mentality I have to put up with , trying to book presentations, when I leave this computor , I go and fight in the trenches with this mentality, I have two meeting this week , and already the vibe is coming at me from them..my phone rings off the hook to play instrumental, but , black female dance culture is surpressed…but when people see it , they adore it…everyone…especialy little kids…

There are many great things about you , you are a super person, but , your attitude on this put our cultural concepts on a head on colision course…and , you wont prevail in this…you are too occupied with your medical suplies business and raising your kids…this is my life , and people close to me, we are dedicated beyond what you can imagin , yes , these dancers are nice and very talented…very few people can dance real samba like they do…and , some of my dancers have won rainha de carnival in my city…this is our life, and I will fight for this with more guts than any critical commenters on here…

Its funny this statement by Monroe about how I am so much worse than KKK, and biff..this has been said by two other people on here , both of them come from people who also have something to do with being from Britain…I mean what in the bejesus is up with that? This ominous dark drama …that I am the embodiment if evil…some kind of stink coming from over there , like some clichêd psych

That list Monroe brought in is bs…she is making up words , or shifting them

I never spell sexual like she did…that is her spelling..she is manipulating it..its bs…and , none of those things are racist, where I think twerking came from , my take on alcoholic violence, any statement representing what I say about Brazilian culture

This is an insult to political activism….putting in guargantuan amounts of efforts to prove Im a racist , searching with a fine tooth comb..

The anti interracial implications by her and Sam, if I am a white American with a black woman in Brazil defending black dancers who dance bare bootie, are unmistakable and noted…when people are getting their heads handed to them , because their arguments are weak, they just start attacking ,in a most demeaning and disgusting way

All bets are off trying call me racist…people have disgustingly lowered themselves down to a leval that cancels out their vote, you can talk on here until you are blue in the face…it doesnt matter, these disgusting attacks couldnt be used for toilet paper to wipe my rear end

There is no debate here, I only come in to heap my contempt at these disgusting notions of black women dancing how they would like to

Not Abagond nor anyone else has attacked you or the dancers in your life, you’ve attacked us as Black people for expressing views that do not fit exactly what the dancers in your life do and have repeatedly proselytized that this is Blackness, leading you to state “My son is Blacker than you.”

That’s the difference. Abagond has never attacked White commenters if they haven’t liked a White Western writer by calling them White cultural sell outs or ignorant, he’s never insulted people in this way, nor has he ever dictated what they should think, feel or subscribe to based on their race. You attack people.
Because he’s not like you. He’d never say I’m Whiter than you. He’d never tell a woman he knows more about being a woman, he’d never argue with a European woman on how she feels about her perception the way you have with the Brazilian woman, tell White women/people they should champion p0rn because they started the s-xual revolution, tell Europeans they’re inauthentic for not liking a certain dance, and when they provide proof it’s not traditional, argue against the elders of the culture like you have Africans with the article Linda brought in just because you have videos of modern raunchy African dancers dancing to traditional music. Nor would he trash an entire White populace as “rubbish Pop” the way you have the Black British community.

You patronise Africans, the African diaspora, the feelings of a Brazilian woman, women. You think you know every minority group.

You did a blooper by referring to Josephine Baker’s dancing as African diaspora culture, (and don’t deny it, you know I’m ready to copy and paste), but you didn’t know she was dancing like a primitive monkey.

You mentioned White American music in the Yonce thread until I, who you patronise as ignorant of my culture, corrected you on the fact that there is no such thing. Now you’re careful to say White American music from the creation of Black American music genres.

You say Black Americans know nothing of their culture, they’re Pop.

You attach character traits to Hispanics, Blacks, psychoanalyse Linda because she’s both, because of her race.

You did say “it turns out twerkin is a traditional dance.” (Once again, I have that exact quote from you so there’s no point in lying). But then when Linda informs you on the conservatism of traditional African culture even during its anumism pre Arab and European influence, and that the Mapouka is the traditional, far more tame version, you say you never said the things you did say. You lie, you backtrack.

You’re words are all racialist theory. You don’t even have the knowledge you claim, myself and Linda have had to correct you a number of times.

“BR,
this is no psycho analises, scroll right up and see your words..this is where you are coming from , and why you call twerking dancers heauxs..dont play like its some current in style phrase , is f Brazil a current phrase ? Your aggresive position , cursing , effing Brazil , lets it known exactly where you are at…and you talk what is in style?

Linda says,

No bueno, BR.

Me saying “eff- Brazil” is my little way of telling you, specifically, that I am sick and tired of having to hear about Brazil every time the conversation about twerking comes up or about anything related to Africa or other black cultures

Not even sure how Brazil even got into the conversation because Brazilian dancers did not invent twerking, nor did Brazilians make it a trend or make it popular — what the h’ll do Brazilian culture or your dancers have to do with this conversation.

Twerking came out of reggae dancehall culture, got popular in strip clubs, and found it’s way to the USA with the help of hip hop culture/music videos, where it really took off and became mainstream — Brazil wasn’t even on the radar when this particular heaux dance got popular, so why do you keep bring up Brazil?

That’s why I said “eff Brazil” — don’t nobody here care about what Brazilians think about twerking. Telling us how your dancers incorporate twerkng or traditional booty/hip shakes in their performances is one thing, (because all black/brown cultures have Traditional dances with booty/hip shakes)–so, that’s nice that you decided to share that.

but your problem is, you go the EXTRA mile, and keep going on and on about “how well and better” Brazilian women shake their a’s due to their blackness — is going in another direction all together and thus, you start derailing the initial post. (hence my comment, “eff-Brazil”, can we please stick to the topic at hand)

My aggressive stance comes from being tired of you bringing up Brazil when it is Inappropriate, discussing me like you know me – inappropriate, and trying to bring in my ethnic/racial background to dismiss my points of view about twerking — wayyy inappropriate.

So you bringing up Brazil, in a discussion about Twerking, is very off base and actually a derailment because your Brazilian dancers (and Carnival) have nothing to do with twerking or about how black AMERICANS feel about American artists like Beyonce, showcasing videos of young American girls twerking.

Yeah, Abagond. You shut up, BR knows the Jezebel image is hardly the major portrayal Black women face. What do you know about how Black women are shown? The narratives? The history? Perpetuated stereotypes? You’re acting as if you’re a member of the Black community, living and breathing beyond entertainment and employment, but actually living in Black skin . . .. oh . . .. wait . . .. doh!

BR I used your words I’m not on my computer. I read them scrolled down and typed them up. Some time today or tomorrow I will copy and paste your words directly. They’re exactly what you said. You’re gonna look soooo silly. All you have to do is scroll up and you will see you said them. I’m gonna laaaay it ooout! And then I’m done.

You are absolutly not qualified to judge whether Im a racist or not…really , punk, bring it…bring in one statement , bring in one s-xualising statement…you think you can just throw crap out like that and it has validity?
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Ebonymonroe “Yonce thread”

Discussing a video of a child dancing to a Beyoncé song

She’s an extremely talented dancer, but I am confused as to why the parents didn’t make her switch this song for another because of the s-xual content. That’s a shame.

Side note: I bet we’ll be hearing from this little lady in a few years as a world famous choreographer! She’s got “it.”
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“Yonce” lyrics (Emphasis mine)

Verse 1:]
See me up in the club with 50 them girls
Posted in the back diamond fangs in my grill
Brooklyn brim with my eyes sittin’ low
Every boy in here with me got that smoke (w33d)
And every girl in here gotta look me up and down
All on Instagram, cake by the pound (a55)
Circulate the image every time I come around
G’s up, tell me how I’m looking babe

[Breakdown:]
Boy, this all for you just walk my way
Just tell me how it’s looking babe [x2]
I do this all for you, baby, just take aim
And tell me how it’s looking, babe (how it’s looking)
And tell me how I’m looking, babe (looking, babe)

[Verse 2:]
Drop the bass, mind the bass, get lower
Radio say, “Speed it up,” I just go slower
High like treble, pumping on them mids
The man ain’t ever seen a booty like this
And why you think you keep my name rolling off the tongue
Cause when you wanna smash, (s-x)
I just write another one
I sneezed on the beat and the beat got sicker
Yoncé all on his mouth like liquor [x8] (cunnilingus)

[Beat switch]

[Verse 3:]
Driver roll up the partition please
Driver roll up the partition please
I don’t need you seeing yoncé on her knees (fellatio)
Took 45 minutes to get all dressed up
We ain’t even gonna make it to this club
Now my mascara runnin’, red lipstick smudged
Oh he so horny, yeah he want to f()ck
He popped all my buttons and he ripped my blouse
He Monica Lewinski’d all on my gown (ejaculated)

Oh, there daddy, daddy didn’t bring the towel
Oh, baby, baby be better slow it down
Took 45 minutes to get all dressed up
And we ain’t even gonna make it to this club

[Hook:]
Take all of me
I just wanna be the girl you like, girl you like
The kinda girl you like, girl you like
Take all of me
I just wanna be the girl you like, girl you like
The kinda girl you like
Is right here with me
Right here with me
Right here with me
Right here with me

[Verse 4:]
Driver roll up the partition fast
Driver roll up the partition fast
Over there I swear I saw them cameras flash
Hand prints and footprints on my glass
Hand prints and good grips all on my a55
Private show with the music blastin’
He like to call me Peaches when we get this nasty
Red wine drip filth talk that trash
Chauffeur eavesdropping trying not to crash

Oh, there daddy, daddy now you ripped my fur
Oh, baby, baby be sweatin’ on my hair
Took 45 minutes to get all dressed up
And we ain’t even gonna make it to this club

I still can’t get over how Beyonce has 9-11 year old little Black (Afro Latina) girls twerking and butt clapping in her “Blu” music video. (A song dedicated to her toddler aged daughter). I haven’t purchased her material in recent years because the POP (emphasis mine) route she took just isn’t my personal thing. But I was always warm towards her because of the quality of the R&B music on Destiny’s child’s debut, Writing’s on the wall, her solo debut, and B day. I cannot stomach someone who promotes the s-xualization of children. Her fashion label already had to pull a campaign a few years back due to complaints because she had little girls in makeup, dresses and high heels, and the public felt she was s-xualizing little girls.
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

she has shown me enough great talent that i dont go questioning her artistic choices

then i wouldnt have to listen to your disgusting insults and pseudo pop political agendised hide behind

most of you are pop culturists
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“Beyoncé is an American Pop singer”
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BR

The Niki Manage presentation on the VMA awards made twerking look like patty cake…Ocean drive , just the way the women dress , is more provacative than twerking…and I love it..
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Nikki Minaj >>> US Rapper who mixes Pop, dance music with Hip hop
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BR on Lauryn Hill

and funny people on here dont care about credibility and experiance anyway, costantly said that…why are some of the more ridiculous statements on here, about music , its history and dance coming from across the atlantic

You know, Monroe, and constantly are like two overseas, continental, across the atlantic posters tryingh so hard
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BR on the Black British community

tell me the example of black culture in england is black music was in style…so pop music is your example of black culter? that is as good as you can do? to understand black Afro diasporic culture? that is lame..you are a pop culturist
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my stepdad worked in the music industry for years, he’s a musician from the funk era, The Ohio players era, and he’s worked around everyone from Prince, to Dru Hill, to The police (Sting’s band), he’s a multi instrumentalist, a former radio host, and former DJ, and he’s Black, but he’d tell you the same thing sweetheart.
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BR said

way more than just playing funk in pop groups
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BR said

I never insulted your family

where did I cut down the Ohio players or Prince
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what in gods name makes you think you can analise how I feel about these dancers ? you pulled that out of your rear end…

Your analogy if prostitution is sick on your part

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BR said Wed 22nd Jan 2014

Right now, we are in a heat wave and the beach is just rolling big time, and where I live , that means booty booty and more naked booty, booty of all shapes sizes and colors, petit booty , bubble butt booty , happy booty, old booty, young booty…all female booty…

i get to see incredible booty passing inches from my nose

it promotes incredible well being…i respect so much these women for being free and sensual

hotter than twerking

this country said its ok for me to be on the beach and look at booty, you dont own their booties…they give me the right, and I respect them so much for that, because, I dont want to touch them, or have s-x , or even talk to them or know them and the women like it and want it

I have so much respect for afro diasporic culture and the natural sensuality and grace it has incorporated over several thousands of years

Few american men get to really understand the female body out side of their playboy maigizines and current girl freinds or spouses, we have been denied, unless their profesion puts them in an inside contact, like me with Louis falco , with open nude co ed dressing rooms that i as the accompanying musician , got to see..beleive, that set me straight on the power of sensuality, because , king, Im here to say its no less than the cure for so many mental ruts and depresions…being in a sensual atmosphere goes farther than any psychiatrist could to get me to let go of the logic brain bombarding me with all the hubris of the past

The problem is, king, you are trapped in your own american experiance point of referance, that is why you made the post you did their wonderful bodies are on display for me to understand exactly what wemen really look like, and it is wonderful and i respect women more for that
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BR said

Because I am rebeling against your mentality
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Ebonymonroe said

Do you wear a thong on the beach?
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Ebonymonroe

(Asks again)
1. BR, do you wear a thong on the beach?
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BR said

i would love to have worn the thong for men, i have pictures of me in a speedo at 48 that i looked real good, now i dont dont think id flatter it.
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BR said

Right now, we are in a heat wave and the beach is just rolling big time, and where I live , that means booty booty and more naked booty, booty of all shapes sizes and colors, petit booty , bubble butt booty , happy booty, OLD BOOTY, (emphasis mine)young booty…all female booty
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BR said

noticed once that when a foreighner walked down the beach,in a thong bikini, as he passed crowds of men, great laughter passed, so, here is a case where social preasure pursuaded me not to pursue skimpy mens swim wear

i would love nothing more than to prance around
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BR said

im in the deep struggle to fight for black women

Black women exploiting? Prove it…im in the deep struggle to fight for black women and their culture in Brazil..just because you are uptight about naked booty

this is no internet debate for me, where i get out of the computor and go back to a life of riley…i face these biased attitudes this battle is our real life

militant feminism also stepped way over the line , and took sensuality right out of womens natural right , they paid a big price for it too

You havent proved anything , except your main argument is I probably wouldnt wear a thong on a Brazilian beach

Black liberation, Feminism, oh it’s all against you. No our opinions are our opinions, and you don’t get to dictate them, or intrude on them by demonizing us as militant rhetoric puppets. You can have a different perspective, but be respectful about the difference of opinion from Black women when it comes to our thoughts on things relating to Black women, there’s a respectful way to do things. You need to cut out patronising us That’s not our purpose as human beings, born into Black skin, and the female gender. How dare you assume about what I know of my own people.
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BR said

Pretty much everything you stated is pop culturist
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Abagond

@BR

I am not using my knowledge of white literature to tell whites who is whiter. I do not dismiss their arguments because they are somehow not white enough. I do not tell them that I understand their culture better than they do, that they only understand it at a superficial “pop” level – and then call them chumpy.
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BR said

and Legion or Buddhuu wonder why I ask them if they can hum a wayne shorter song or actualy know the exhaultation of actualy being inside an up tempo bebop…because , if you actualy really dont understand the true depth and profound meaning of what jazz is, the ho hum , “i dont get what he means..” and then the put downs seriously reveals that people dont get the devastating truth right in front of their eyes…they sluff over it, dismiss it and bury it…and, listening to jazz isnt like playing it with the masters. If you arnt on the inside
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Ebonymonroe 14th Sep 2014

You should compare pictures of Josephine Baker , I mean videos on y0utube, with some youtubes of passistas…

Tue 16th Jan 2014

you are all rhetoric and no substance, Monroe

what do you know about black dance? the history of it …about dance?

because you talk like you are an expert on it..
………………………………………………………………………………………………..
Josephine Baker danced in a banana skirt hunched over to look like a primitive m0nkey to entertain White audiences.
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BR said

you can superimpose anything you like about what you think I feel about and like about Afro diasporic dance and Josiphine Baker, but, its like your really chumpy pseudo political militarised description of my s-x life with black women , extremly narrow minded and more reflecting of your own insecurities of what s-xualising could mean

why would I watch Josephine Baker for titilation when I have p0rn hub..your insinutation is disgusting
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BR said

how much more can i stress that now so people will get my point…and i respect so much these lessons and gifts that the ancient Africans past to us…are there Africans today that regect that? of course, there are Islamic and christian africans
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BR said
Monroe, I was dancing the James Brown before you were born and a whole bunch of other dances, when you can do the James Brown get back to me, Ciara and that other young singer dancer as well as Sheila E
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BR said

One of the gifts out of many by the ancient traditional African drum dance cultures is, they also recognised the tremendous energy in the pelvic genital area (CHILDREN)
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BR said

its no insult to admit what you dont know
..there is no insult being a pop culturalist Beyonce’s use of twerking with little girls…

check them out in the context of where they came from in the black community and their tradition

why are you giving mis information, Linda? This is a traditional dance from a country in africa. . ..

turns out its actualy considered A TRADITIONAL DANCE…that was misinformation on her part
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BR said

I did not say twerking itself was traditional black dance

………………………………………………………………………………………….

Linda brings in article

That’s what happened to Mapouka (from Ivory Coast) — the same thing happened to old style “whining”.. new moves were added on to it and it became known as “twerking”

Africans don’t live in a bubble, BR, they are not immune to the trends around the world!

The country’s current Mapouka craze amounts to a revival of an ancient form – As it’s grown beyond its village origins different forms of the dance have emerged

“Christian de Mederos of Nigui Saf K-dance says “Mapouka is a modern dance with a traditional inspiration.

Part of the issue is that Mapouka was an ancient dance from the villages that has been modernized and brought to town. (the same way dancehall/whining was turned into “twerking”)

As it’s become more urban it’s become more popular. And as it’s become more popular so, many say, it has become more vulgar. –

In public, few people are ready to defend the Mapouka danced in nightclubs around the city: (you brought in a video of nightclub dancing)

“The traditional Mapouka is much better, particularly when you compare it to what is danced in nightclubs. Personally, I’m not at all interested in what you find there and when you see young people dancing like that in nightclubs – frankly, I’m disgusted.” – (I guess the majority of black people in Ivory Coast are uptight moralists infected by the white man too, huh)

Whatever you say about the other form of Mapouka I must say that I am completely against it.The traditional Mapouka is the real and only Mapouka.

The other Mapouka, I would go as far as to say that it is pornography danced in the rhythm of Mapouka and loosely based on the traditional Mapouka.” Those are strong words over a dance.But in a country where people care about culture perhaps that should be no surprise.”

These points from Ana’s (Brazilian woman) post pretty much apply to you:

“They apply their own ideas of what is truly “African” to Brazil. That determines what they see and know, like capoeira, but not, say, black symbolist poets like Cruz e Souza.”

I pretty much agree with Solesearch that you are trying to police black culture.

YOU determine what their proper religious beliefs should be (not Christian or Muslim) and its proper place in their society (it should have nothing to do with ideas of modesty and thereby obstruct your view of naked black booty).

YOU determine what is appropriate in their music videos (the main subject of this thread).

YOU determine socially acceptable levels of nudity (not so “uptight” that you would have to go to a strip club).

YOU determine what music they should listen to (not heavy metal, apparently).

Anyone who does not follow YOUR ideas of what is truly black does not have to be taken seriously. Apparently because they are “not black enough”. But YOU, a white man, should ALWAYS be taken seriously because YOU JUST KNOW WHAT IS RIGHT FOR BLACK PEOPLE.

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BR to a Brazilian woman

oh,oh , Im not surprised you would bring this in, abagond and ive disagreed with many of her points, and ive brought it out on here, this is a women who has no afinity with black culture I can see through her falacies

I know you dont care, but i live and breathe Afro diaspric culture everyday, i start out my one hour practice with 20 minutes of candomble rhythms, that is as about as Afrodiasporic as it gets, i then get to up bop on the records and clave and of course samba , coco, medium swing, funk, sometimes about 2 times a week i get together with a Brazilian percusionist and go over a bunch of rhythms..we rehearse our show with various afro diasporic dances

where it doesnt mean anything to you, that is one deep dish immersion on a daily basis…and, its my prayer also

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Ebonymonroe

+ Heavy metal is not European music because . . .
Heavy metal is a descendant of heavy Rock, (eg Guns and Roses whose original guitarist, Slash, is Black)
Heavy Rock is a descendant of Psychedelic Rock (whose King was Jimi Hendrix).
Psychedelic rock is a descendant of The Distorted Blues (Howlin Wolf) and . . .
Distorted Blues is the descendant of The Blues. (BB King)
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BR said

there is an atmosphere that allows women to feel safe on the beach to be scantily dressed
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S-x Tourists: Brazil Fights ‘Out of Control’ Child Exploitation

In northeastern Brazil, a growing number of tourists have become a sizable part of the economy. These visitors come to the region to take advantage of its world-renowned beaches, colonial architecture, and rich history. Tragically, some also come to take advantage of Brazil’s children.

“It’s very easy to buy a girl. It’s like buying a chocolate,” youth counselor Carlos da Bomba, who works for the Guardian Council in Recife, said.

A Life of Pain

More than 4 million people live in the metropolitan area. Da Bomba described child s-x trafficking there as “out of control.”

Taxi drivers, hotel workers, drug dealers, and others work together to form an underground network, connecting supply (children in Recife) with demand (adults who s-xually exploit them).
Every week, da Bomba’s agency receives five to six new victims in need of help. He wondered how many others are still out there, afraid to reach out.

Poor and Vulnerable

Brazil may soon overtake Thailand as the No. 1 country for trafficked children. The United Nations estimates that more than a quarter million are sexually exploited in Brazil.

Much of the trafficking happens in the northeast region where child sex tourists arrive from Europe and the United States. The most vulnerable are the children from poor communities
Many in the northeast fear the worst is yet to come.
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I Don’t Deserve To Be Raped’ Protest Goes Viral In Brazil

The online campaign has spread after survey finds over 65 per cent of Brazilians think women dressed provocatively deserve to be attacked

Outraged women have taken to Twitter to protest a new survey that has found the majority of Brazilians think women who dress provocatively are ASKING to be raped
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Ebonymonroe said

That’s the thing BR, this has nothing to do with ballet or Brazilian dance
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BR said

just because you are uptight about naked booty shaking in black culture , gives you no right at all to be the judge and jury of what is valuable in black Brazilian culture
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NOTE: AT NO TIME DURING MY DISCUSSION ON THE BEYONCE VIDEOS WITH YOUNG CHILDREN DANCING DID I MENTION BRAZIL. NOT ONCE! I HAVEN’T INSULTED HIS WIFE AS HE CLAIMED, BUT HE DEMANDED AN APOLOGY FOR THIS. NOR HAVE I EVER CALLED THE DANCERS HE’S WORKED WITH PROSTITUTES.
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Ebonymonroe said

Never had a thing to do with Brazil! I never claimed to speak for all Black women, I said Black women are allowed to speak
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BR said

you know you just dont get it, you dont speak for all black women, you dont speak for black Brazian women and what I am telling you is what they have told me…and what Ive read they have said..dont flatter yourself to think you speak for these women
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BRs knowledge of the Black community

militant femininists should be much more concerned about a bottle of alcohol and the men in their lives who drink it

Monroe , about violence alcohol and the men in the womens life who drink it

You actualy are going to try to say alcohol isnt a problem with violence ? You really have lost it..you cant look at reality anymore, you are so caught up in you rhetoric

Its funny,Monroe is tossing her ideas of why men beat their women as unemployment , and puts it into a black context

its funny tis notion by a Brit woman across the atlantic, implying its unemployment as the reason black men beat their wives

i cant speak for any of the black Americans on here, and i would never ever pretend to , but, ill speak for my black American music colleagues and black american male freinds…its demeaning to imply that just because they dont have a job, they might beat their women…this is the kind of logic ive come to expect from monroe, hack logic, not well thought out…not only is it alcohol that brings the violence out of most domestic violence cases, Momroe, doesnt even understand men that well, because, i guarentee you , jealousy will trump unemployment any day of the year for reasons of violence towards women…by the way, women can be violent to men also, and , its mostly under the influence of alcohol…Monroe needs to pull her nose out of activist , psycholgy books and deal with real life

Domestic violence is a crime that cuts a painful swath across all races, socioeconomic levels and cultures.

But experts in the field say that one set of victims — black women — is at a far greater risk to experience the grimmest of all domestic violence statistics: They are about three times more likely to die at the hands of a partner or ex-partner than members of other racial groups. Intimate-partner homicide is also among the leading causes of death for black women ages 15 to 35.

And, the experts add, their plight may not change anytime soon because of complex underlying causes that in some cases stretch back generations: unemployment, poverty, lack of education, incarceration and violent environments.

“A lot of groups have economic issues, but a lot of groups have not had the economic issues we’ve had for as long as we’ve had, for the reasons that we’ve had,” said Dr. Gail Wyatt, a professor of psychiatry and bio-behavioral sciences at UCLA for 35 years.

“This is not just an African-American problem, but we are disproportionately affected by it.”

Domestic violence killings have become a high-profile issue in North Texas. In August 2012, authorities say, 32-year-old Deanna Cook’s ex-husband killed her in her home as she called 911 for help. Records show he had a history of abuse.

Last month, police say, Erbie Bowser shot and killed four people, including his ex-girlfriend and estranged wife, and wounded four others in a horrific domestic violence spree. Bowser also had a history of domestic abuse.

In 2012, Dallas police recorded 12 intimate partner murders, and six of the victims were black women. Overall, the department recorded 13,324 family violence offenses — 7,366 involving African-Americans.

Earlier this year, upset by a string of domestic violence attacks in the area, Dallas Mayor Mike Rawlings organized a men’s rally against domestic violence aimed at making men more accountable for their actions against women. The event had a heavy turnout of black men.

In an interview last month, Rawlings said it would be naïve of him as a mayor to opine on the reasons why black women are at such risk of being killed by their partners. He said such analysis is better left to anthropologists and social scientists. But he did say those experts should look at the role of poverty and race in studying domestic violence issues.

Several experts agreed. Dr. Jacquelyn Campbell, nursing professor at Johns Hopkins University and a leader in the field, has spent more than three decades focusing on black homicidal domestic abuse. She started at a time when she said it was the No. 1 cause of death for black women.

In 1986, she developed the danger assessment tool to help determine the likelihood that an abused woman would be killed by her intimate partner. The tool is still in use.

Joblessness factor

Campbell said that while prior domestic violence is the top risk factor in determining future attacks, unemployment is “by far the most important demographic” in putting someone at risk to be killed by an intimate partner.

The latest national unemployment rate for blacks is 13 percent, more than double the 6.4 percent for whites. For black men, that figure is 13.5 percent, compared with 6.2 percent for white males .

“Unemployed white men were as likely to kill their partners as unemployed black men, but because the black unemployment rate is higher, we see more deaths of black women,” Campbell said. “In this society … having a job is meaningful in terms of one’s sense of masculinity. If they don’t have that prestige, if they can’t control anything else, at least I’m going to control my woman.”

Paige Flink, executive director of the Family Place in Dallas, said that the Dallas statistics on murder and domestic violence track with her records. She noted that blacks account for about half of all domestic violence calls to her abuse shelter.

“And we know that African-Americans aren’t anywhere near 50 percent of the population,” she said.

Flink agreed that unemployment is an overwhelming factor in domestic abuse and noted that black unemployment rates historically are the highest of any race. A lethality assessment by Dallas police for the past year showed that “40 to 50 percent of these batterers are unemployed,” she said.

Changing the thoughts and actions of men is a major focus of those attempting to reduce homicidal violence against black women.

“This won’t change unless men are engaged,” said Dr. Tricia Bent-Goodley, a professor of social work at Howard University, another top researcher. “Men must be included because they have been the missing link. Without them, we are going to have [more] women and children losing their lives.”

Dr. Gail Garfield is an associate professor in the sociology department at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice at City University of New York who also has done extensive study in the field. She said socioeconomic factors ranging from chronic employment to high rates of incarceration, combined with others, lead to a feeling of disrespect that can lead to homicidal violence.

“Poor black men … have simply lost a lot of hope. They have nothing to lose, except for one thing, and that one thing is respect,” Garfield said. “Black people are real big on respect, especially poor black people. However that respect gets defined, once that line has been crossed, you see violence and violation.”

Entrenched habits

The experts also say other causes are at play that also factor into the deaths of black women at the hands of their partners. These issues go back decades and are steeped in traditions and habits that are difficult to break.

For example, domestic violence researchers say black women often remain in volatile relationships longer than abused women of other races. Bent-Goodley said some “African-American women just don’t feel safe in interacting with some of the systems” designated to help abuse victims, such as the police or even women’s shelters.

Or if they do decide to leave an abusive partner, their plans are often met with resistance by family members or religious leaders. So the violence continues to escalate and many of the women don’t even realize how dangerous their situation is.

“We don’t really talk about domestic violence,” Bent-Goodley said. “African-American women turn to either their friends or their faith-based community. Unfortunately, many of our faith-based communities tell them that divorce is a sin and that they should stay in the relationship. Some of the messages that we get can stop us from reaching out for help.”

Bishop T.D. Jakes, senior pastor of The Potter’s House in Dallas, said faith plays a major role in the issue. But he, too, stressed the other factors that lead to abuse.

“Statistics prove that during the recession, domestic violence increased drastically,” Jakes said. “Anger and rage are building up in the hearts of men who feel helpless and hopeless. And more and more, men have rage that is suppressed. We have got to find a better way to handle our frustrations.”

And in many other instances, black women who are abuse victims, instead of reporting the assaults or leaving, choose to fight back physically. The experts say it’s a cultural standard that is often applauded and admired by those close to the women. But they also note that willingness to “take a punch if they have to” and then give one back can lead to even more intense abuse from an angry spouse or partner.

“One of the things that it means to be a man is to not be beaten up by a woman,” Garfield said. “So it can take one of these things from a woman who is talking back to a man, to a woman who is hit defending herself, to escalating the violence.”

Tonya Lovelace, director of the Women of Color Network in Harrisburg, Pa., said that because they are defending themselves, some women may mistakenly believe that they aren’t really in an abusive relationship.

“We still may be willing to fight back and defend ourselves, where ultimately what we’re trying to do is defend our relationship,” Lovelace said. “By the time we come to the conclusion that we need outside help … something really severe has already happened. A lot of times we don’t even see these women until they have been killed.”

Lovelace said she believes she knows what drives that thinking by some abused black women to “stick in it longer.”

“Some of that has to do with the idea that black men are scarce. We are at greater risk because of that and that belief that a little bit of violence in our relationship is nothing that can’t be handled.”

Declining cases

There is some good news, however. Overall domestic violence cases, including those involving blacks, have dropped dramatically for more than a decade. This trend is expected to continue as domestic violence laws are improved and applied more equitably.

Also, the experts said it is important to note that although studies prove black women are at much greater risk to become victims of intimate partner violence, the vast majority are not abused. And, they add, black men are not naturally inclined to abuse their partners.

But that is not to say that Bent-Goodley and others in her field are trying to play down the problem.

“Yes, it’s gotten better since 1976, but it’s still going on,” said Campbell of Johns Hopkins, adding that both victims and abusers need help. “We need to make sure they get the kind of counseling they need. It can’t be a family secret. They have to get professional help so that they don’t continue the cycle.

“I firmly believe we can get better at this and decrease the number of homicides,” Campbell added. “If I didn’t, I wouldn’t stay in the business.”

BY THE NUMBERS

The Violence Policy Center in Washington, D.C., found these facts in its 2012 report of 2010 domestic violence statistics for black women:

94 percent of black women killed by men in single victim/single offender incidents knew their killers.

Nearly 15 times as many black women were murdered by a man they knew than were killed by a stranger.

64 percent of black victims who knew their offenders were wives, ex-wives or girlfriends of the offenders.

The number of black women shot and killed by their husband or intimate partner was nearly five times as high as the total number murdered by strangers using all weapons combined.

GETTING HELP

Genesis Women’s Shelter 24-hour hotline, 214-946-4357

The Family Place crisis hotline, 214-941-1991

National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233

SIGNS OF ABUSE

Your partner gets extremely angry at the slightest provocation and blames you for everything.

While other problems–high incarceration rates, the education attainment gap, housing instability, disproportionate HIV rates, and violent crime in black communities — are often the topic of discussion and activism, domestic violence is rarely discussed. It should be. Domestic violence is not only as much of a problem in the black community as it is across the nation, but its a bigger problem. More frequent. More lethal.

In 2005, African Americans accounted for nearly a third of the intimate-partner homicides. For years, the (few) studies that have addressed the issue of domestic violence in the black community have told the same story. A study published in 2000 reported that Black females experienced intimate partner violence at a rate 35% higher than that of white females, and about 22 times the rate of women of other races. In 2005, black women accounted for 22% of the intimate partner homicide victims and 29% of all female victims of intimate partner homicide.

Black men are also affected. The same 2000 study found that Black males experienced intimate partner violence at a rate about 62% higher than that of white males and about 22 times the rate of men of other races. Black men are also more likely than white men to be killed by their partners, though at a lower rate than black women. In 2005, black women were 2.4 times more likely than a black male to murdered by their partners. In 2002, the number one killer of African-American women ages 15 to 34 was homicide at the hands of a current or former intimate partner.

Why the higher rates? In part, the same old reasons: poverty (intimate partner violence is more frequent among those with lower incomes); un-and-underemployment (it’s more frequent when the male partner is unemployed/underemployed); and housing disparities (its more common in couples living in poor neighborhoods). Massachusetts saw dramatic increases in rates of domestic violence between 2005-2007–probably another fun by-product of the recession. Drug and alcohol use are also linked to domestic violence.

So, in these trying times, what to do? Though it seems cliche, take care of each other. Battered black women who reported that they could rely on others for emotional and practical support were less likely to be re-abused, showed less psychological distress, and were less likely to attempt suicide. The same is true of women generally. If you are in an abusive relationship, seek support. Talk to a family member or friend and contact a local shelter or service. If you are not in an abusive relationship, be supportive–support your friends and family members and organizations that help victims of domestic violence.

In the meantime, we can and should keep working on the problems that exacerbate this one: poverty, un-and-under employment, housing disparities, etc. However, it is important to shine a light on this rarely-discussed issue. It is a matter of life and death.

you are intimidated by Brazil , and should be, the women are much less inhibeted about their bodies

Your take on twerking is white woman go suk on it and criam your petty shallow accuasations

you call me a racist mysiginist

What this really amounts to is a small group of women , who happen to be black , hiding under the veneer of being concerned about black womens image, wraping themselves up in white militant womens lib sexual objectification rhetoric

this is ridiculous, I am very concerned with images of black people in the media

you are all uptight because of some images of young girls shaking their booties…I happen to think its healthy…what is unhealthy is to not bring forth the best dancers who practice twerking

far more people are screaming at the media makes black women look ugly and unwanted i can bring in youtubes of young black girls everywhere there are black people

you come in here like you are all aware of music, can you hum a wayne shorter song? do you have any idea what its like to be inside of an up tempo bop with Walter Bishop jr, who played with charlie parker, or Dr lonnie smith? or you just a mid tempo blues chump

you think the black feminists would jetison the uptight white angst of the militant white feminist movement, but instead they lead with it, and just add some caveatts to make it fit into a black context

I say they have no right to judge other women how they want to deal with their bodies…(CHILDREN)

I just dont buy into s-xual psych analysis by people who dont really know their own s-xuality..and sometimes hate men

most black people here, do live black culture, the culture of the pop world

its a proven fact that the pelvic hip thrusts get rid of s-xual tension (CHILDREN) and is very healthy

sensuality involving the female nude body

superimposing your uptight notions of what is too s-xualised..that is just western white thought anyway..you would think you would get that…what is wrong with you, Monroe? you are all rhetoric and no substance

Monroe, the media also sais black women are ugly and not wanted

you are rhetoric and no substance

oh and here is Kiwi, who understands nothing of the culture im dealing with

I watched a youtube of a little girl twerking Afro diasporic culture move that works all ther muscles in that area and isactualy a release of tension in that area

this isnt your world Monroe, thank goddness

the s-xual hang ups got ingrained in a lot of black people to from this western up tightness

you think I care what you think or anybody else here making nave statements , and repressing statements about dance

Kiwi, cultural apropriation is what you are doing spewing black political rhtetoric in your anti interracial s-x tirades..

time and time again, black women have been protrayed as ugly and not desired in the media

dont be surprised if Ciara or Janelle do a twerking video in the future

stripping is replete with borrowed Afro diasporic moves

oh yeah, well congradulations you finaly outed yourself as having inner resentments and disgruntledness in your subconcous about white men having s-x with black women

Solesearch, you were hung up on the bootie dancing thread, i expect this kind of post from you. Its your Christian values…fine for you, get them away from cultures you know nothing about, like bare booty dancing from Brazil

you know, either you pay the dues and immerse yourself in a culture

Brazilian women, they are advanced over north america and Bitain

my son is more Afro descendent than you (DOES HE WEAR A THONG AND TWERK?)

I paid the dues to immerse myself in Afro diasporic cultures, I didnt copy them I went the extra mile

they might as well smoke a corn cob pipe, and be country bumkins on a log..you too , Linda, sorry that, you would break your face trying to run what you have run here

I just tried to show that being uptight about kids doing booty moves is in your world not mine

there is nothing wrong with sensual naked women on the beach or girls (CHILDREN) dancing Afro diasporic dances with pelvic thrusts

my wife is more Afro diasporic than you, Linda, and I guarentee you

I guarentee you, all you are saying, and these new breed of black political agendists

they buried Louis Armstrong

where you can identify moves and origins of them in strip clubs

jive

where do you stand on tap dancing

So where is the racist remark? I will defend the real black people

please spare me the America makes war on poc, more americans of all races and creeds have died fighting white people than any other kind of people,so you are really off base with that line of thinking

Monroe, suk on that
………………………………………………………………………………………………….

(The transatlantic slave trade resulted in a vast and as yet still unknown loss of life for African captives both in and outside of America. Approximately 1.2 – 2.4 million Africans died during their transport to the New World. More died soon upon their arrival. The amount of life lost in the actual procurement of slaves remains a mystery but may equal or exceed the amount actually enslaved.
The savage nature of the trade led to the destruction of individuals and cultures. The following figures do not include deaths of enslaved Africans as a result of their actual labor, slave revolts or diseases they caught while living among New World populations.
A database compiled in the late 1990s put the figure for the transatlantic slave trade at more than 11 million people. For a long time an accepted figure was 15 million, although this has in recent years been revised down. Most historians now agree that at least 12 million slaves left the continent between the 15th and 19th century, but 10 to 20% died on board ships. Thus a figure of 11 million enslaved people transported to the Americas is the nearest demonstrable figure historians can produce. Besides the slaves who died on the Middle Passage itself, even more slaves probably died in the slave raids in Africa. The death toll from four centuries of the Atlantic slave trade is estimated at 10 million. )

While I was reading through your posts in the Yonce thread, I noticed you did take the time to apologise at one point as had I for my tone. Although I can’t remember what it was for and still see you’re repeating many offensive things you’ve said before and can’t understand why they are. Thank-you for taking the time to apologise.

And I stand by what I said…Monroe , you took things out of context , some was heated debate , with disgusting insults going down…I mean really ,Monroe, you have had major debates with other people, and if you took sentances of yours out if context , it would make you look extremly rude…I can pull statements here by all the commenters here , that could apear to make them look bad….Jefe has made mind boggling errors , and , Jefe , jerk is relative, right back at you…look at who is calling me racist…the lies , deceptions and doing back flips to try and pin it on me…Kiwi lied about me saying mosh was associeted with terrorists…Sam is a girl scout Safari in Harlem , anti American , who I have anialated in political debates, his depiction of my relationship with my wife and black dancers is riddled with his own jungle jim visits the third world stereotypes…look at his description of his experiances in , Harlem, grey , bland,as though people are sponge bobs…Hades, my experiances in Harlem were profoundly rich and cultural, like playing at Club Wells, histórico jazz club, with bop monster , Walter Bishoo Jr, who recorded with Charlie Parker , Marcus Miller, the greatest funk bass player ever , produced Luthor Van Dross, and Miles Davis on bass, Carmen Lundy, one of our greatest living jazz singers…that is theHarlem I know, and you , are frothing at the mouth with your horrible depictions of my relationship with the black dancers I worked with , distorting it to fit your black feminist agenda , informed by uptight white womens lib sexual objectification rhetoric and dogma

You take quotes about Africa I said that dont relate to twerking , and make it seem like twerking…intellectualy dishonest

I ask you , of all the domestic violence reported , how much do you think alcohol was involved? This is what those reports dont show, its exactly why studies , statistics can be misleading

I already addressed you about the northeast of Brazil , I debunked the arguments you and Abagond brought in about Ana, Cruz de Souza is from my state….none of what you all said aplies to me , if you are going to rehash huge amounts if stuff I already answered and handed you your head on a platter, you are just repeating yourself….

And , Hades yes, linda , Brazil is so relevant …because you can see variations of twerking moves in samba dance rebolado moves…and , you can see the attitudes you just evoked about carnival , and the afro diasporic dances everyone does then , and they think they are sexualised, all over south america and brazil , and it is the cultural racism fault line , big time , again , i dont think you are a racist, but your exact words evoke this racist cultural fault line, and the thoughts on here , are representing this process going down in America…and political agenda in America has destroyed black culture

Monroe, I have always said white American music is on a black cultural foundation, your notion I got that from you is prepostorous , and rock is the Dick jane sally of black innovative cultures, abherated….as a person who enjoyed Prince and other pop musics , popo culture is in my background, but, your contact at the BBC cant get on the stage and cut up tempo bop…ive played with big stars also, its a differant world…bop is for players…its about playing, not backing a singer, making over arranged , kicks all over the place , peices of music…bop is about pure improvisation off form structures , that are simple enough to allow for improvisation at ridiculous tempos where you have to think quick…maurice white, the founder if earth wind and fire , was a jazz drummer..its just the truth…how is your contacts clave feel? Samba feel? Marakatu? Coco, ?You know I can survive and have survived on the bandstand of your contact…can he survive on my bandstand?

The whole thing about children and these dances in Brazil , is , the children do these dances , and they arnt stigmatised…someone else brought in the child traficing statistics in Brazil , and I brought in statistics that showed the same large amounts of sex traficing in canada , Rússia and the states , etc…and this has nothing to do with these dances….the nudity on the beach , and black cultural dances have nothing to do with these traficing problems…baile funk isnt from the North east , and the provacative bikinis is also not a North east trait….we have been over this, and I handed you and Abagond , your heads on a platter

You have just taken a bunch of phrases out of context , responding to disgusting insults, where I have buried your arguments into the ground , I brought huge amounts of variouscAfrican countries video clipes proving my point, only naiveness with an agenda and being in denial could miss the blatent truth I showed

In fact, the disgusting attitudes Im dealing with here , are insulting and putting black women down…the clown referances to me having black women surrounding me for my pleasure , like they are prostitutes , is disgusting…my colaboration with them is on the highest profesional leval…I never had sex with them…people like you and Sam have slandard , and degraded a very powerful and highly cultural , artístic colaboration, and reduced it to cartoonish preportions , and , it speaks to both of your anti interracial uncomfortability , when a white American is involved…Sams depiction of what is going down has so much racism involved, reducing profesional black female dancers to third world sex objects , dancers I never touched, demonstrates where your heads are really at…

Trying to turn this on me as racist , shows how creepily low your political agendas have sunk

You have proved nothing here, I stand by what I said , in the context they were taken out of…its the people calling me racist who are degrading black women , that is the killer here…they are implying it is wrong for black women to dance twerking…and this blog doesnt represent black people…you only represent yourself…there are huge amounts of black women who love twerking.they are making their choices , and black women are choosing to express themselves , and I support them…not the attitudes here

If you didnt notice , Abagond, I expressed my own doubts about reffering to jazz or Brazilian as your culture

This is one of your big issues you bring up …that I always say you dont know your own culture…yeah , and , now I have big doubts that I could say jazz is your culture, you dont embrace it, you dont seemed concerned how its history relates to black American history …what ever , I wont even speculate , so Ill ask you

Monroe, as I said , you brought in things in the context of being insulted…you have brought in things like Anas article that you and Abagond tried to pin on me that I thourughly rebuked beyond doubt…you know if I scoured your posts , you have said things in anger at others that seperated from the context , would make you look bad…

So , you take it one post at a time…start with a comment I made you think is racist, and Ill address it full force…ive already debunked some of the obvious , like how I addressed the North east , and how baile funk , passistas and the skimpiast bikinis dont come from there…Brazil is so huge, you dont get it, and it isnt a third world country, like the absolutly disgusting depiction big oaf Sam made

So , bring in the phrase you think is racist, Ill take each one on …and like I said , all best are off calling me racist , based on the degrading lies , manipulations and false demeaning depictions of my relationship with black dancers who wear the passista costume…I will just drive these notions into the ground as you bring in the phrase you think is racist

Linda, do you deny that the exact words you expressed about how everyone just gets all dressed up provacitivly and dances heauxs dances , which are basicly Afro diasporic dances, for two weeks in carnival, and then its over isnt a South American mind set? An attitude that you run into frequently , and especialy upper class white South Americans , but make no mistake , prevails across the board?

If my paraphrase is wrong , correct it, your words are above stating something to that affect…your words arnt psycho analisis , or personal , its what you said

I’m not one to take offense and throw accusations from out of nowhere. I have tried to show BR the contradiction on the things he’s said from topic to topic. He’s repeatedly denied saying things that he has. He’s made claims about my insulting his wife and Brazil when I never have. He began attacking me over what I should say about the way Black children are portrayed, and then claimed he’s never told me what to do. He asked for proof, I have tried to show him what myself and even Abagond were finding offensive. I hoped he would see and understand. I hoped he would understand why this attaching character and views to races, ethnic groups from Blacks, Hispanics, Europeans, women, is wrong. I wanted to make it clear to him, show him that I did not begin attacking him, instead I ended up on the defensive as this White guy began shouting, insulting and dismissing my concern over Black children being shot from the back bending over in cut off shorts twerking (bouncing) their bottom cheeks in a music videos. I hoped he’d see why the things he’s said are so offensive. How many things he’s said that he says he didn’t. It’s the last time I will take the time to reason with him. I just didn’t want to confront him without example.

Wow. You are like those horrid White people who think all “African Americans” celebrate Kwanzaa. You have this fixed, stereotyped view of Black people and Black culture, as if you get all your information from television or some racist aunt.

You think because you “like” Black people and Black culture, because you experience second-hand racism, that you cannot possibly be racist. That is just so wrong.

You carry around all this unexamined White racism, which goes unexamined because you are too much of a racist prick to take what people of colour tell you seriously. Because you are the all-knowing White man.

I finally realised something. At no time will you come around to any other perspectives or take the time to at least try to understand.

*With wars and politics you always have inside information, you’ve been on the ground. If a Middle Eastern man is speaking on what war has done to his country, he’s wrong, you’ve been on the ground. There was no real racism in the Vietnam war, you were on the ground, despite these troops coming out of 60’s America. No one can share their thoughts on figures they identify with that aren’t wrong, you’ve been on the ground. Everyone is anti American or communists if their opinions are different. America has never made war on POC.

*Abagond is a faux Black culturalist because he (for some strange reason) hasn’t brought up jazz and/or Brazil when talking about Black oppression.

*You know what it’s like to be a woman better than women because you’re married to one. Women who find p0rn degrading are not expressing their views they’re attacking female p0rn stars who you respect. Black women who feel discomfort over the hypers-xual images of Black women are not voicing their personal feelings and a desire to see more varied depictions, they’re attacking your dancers and your wife.

*White men and women who don’t feel it’s right to attack Black people conversing on their community should not speak because they cannot whistle a specific song or ho hum.

*Asians should not speak about racism they’ve experienced because of Mao.

*A Brazilian woman shouldn’t share her feelings on her image as one, because she likes a music genre that’s not good enough.

*Africans are wrong about African tradition.

*Anthropologists, psychologists, police departments and statistics are all wrong on what the main cause of domestic violence is because of what you’ve personally witnessed.

*Linda is Hispanic and Black so she’s conflicted since Hispanics are conservative by nature while Black people aren’t.

*I live in the UK so my views are invalid.

*It’s not right to say Josephine Baker dancing hunched over in a banana skirt isn’t Afro diasporic culture because you’ve long danced to James Brown.

*All the thoughts of poc that you disagree with can be traced back to Black militants in the 60’s. You know because of what you’ve personally witnessed.

*Any poc who have opinions contrary to yours are anti interracial s-x.

So this is the deal, no one has ever been right or given consideration with you. No facts or anyone’s outlook is valid if it ever differs with yours. You know all minority groups, every aspect of political history.

I see now. This is the way it works. From this, I assume you’re maybe not all there.

“If you didnt notice , Abagond, I expressed my own doubts about reffering to jazz or Brazilian as your culture

This is one of your big issues you bring up …that I always say you dont know your own culture…yeah , and , now I have big doubts that I could say jazz is your culture, you dont embrace it, you dont seemed concerned how its history relates to black American history …what ever , I wont even speculate , so Ill ask you

Probably about as much as you consider classical Western music and Irish step dancing to be part of yours.

I find it strange you should ask me that when you have these strong opinions about DORF music which you have been keeping to yourself. It strikes me that your appreciation of Black music is mainly of the DORF sort. As a professional musician you should be able to offer some insight into why that is.

Abagond, to your first post…are you crazy? This is like your incriminating me on Anas article…you put out four points , and I answered them in full debunking everything, then you put it out again , and again , like some robot

You dont get the knowledge I have laid out on TV , you have to be kidding

Where did I ever say black people were alike? Ive gone out of my way to point out the differance…I have stressed this in a big way…where do you get off implying I think black people have to act a certain way ? Ive many times said I accept each individual for who they are, and dont think black Americans are suposed to only be into black culture

Your depiction if me is comical…you have built an impresion in your head of me with no basis in fact

To your second point, if that is a paralel , then you accept jazz in the most smallest of ways …yes , i dont have affinity for Irish step dance and know enough to show how black American tap is far more syncopated..I was seriously exposed to clássical music , but have no affinity for the performance style , respect the chord progresion gift they gave to the world

If that is your answer , you have little affinity, and should defer to someone who knows, I would sure listen to what Wyntin Marsalis had to say about executing clássical music

Yeah ok , id love to slaughter the bull I see on DORF, except I dont even get the point…it is so weird , fot the life of me I dont know what you are saying, Im reluctant to attack it without misunderstanding the meaning

Monroe, that is full of crap, bring in your phrase you think makes me racist, and Ill show you how screwed up you are

I attack ridiculous notions that float on this blog, especialy the American foreign policy crud that flows with no mention of the truth on the other side…ive been seriously educated about this in Brazil….

I attack anti interracial crud , that flows like towering infernos on this blog…its sick..Abagond promotes it. You are guilty of it..

If someone disagrees with you , you immediatly attack them calling them racist or mysiginist , you leave no room for nuances …

Funny , I see a million comments on what poc think of white people to the point of obsession, really interesting you focus on the few subjects I have an opinion, I never contradict most if the white racism issues unless it is anti interracial, but you and Abagond dont pick that up at all

There are people on here who get their nose out of joint if you dont lock step with their bs…then they visciously attack that person

People like you cant handle being pointed out your ignorance, but , you dont want to do the work…you want to slam Jesse Owens but wont really try to discover the truth about him…you sounded ridiculous and lashed out at KOT for setting you straight…you just cant handle the truth , running your mouth about things you dont know about, and then get viscious if someone disagrees

There is a fault of charactor in the people calling me racist and mysiginist

Screw your list and your tired opinion…I deal with a holes for who they are

No George i dont think I have anhonorary black card…ive known so many real black people I see through the false creepy veneer some people wrap themselves over here from people pretending to represent black people when they only represent themselves….only chumps would think they really are interacting with black people on here…its a bunch of cyber blips, lots of non black or Americans,

And anti Americans like Sam will be looking at Americas rear end until the end of his life…people obsessed like that deserve to choke on it

BR you’re mad. I repeatedly said I had tremendous admiration for Owen’s achievements but wholly disagreed with his original idea that Black people were bringing problems on themselves. KOT insulted me with ad hominems and then said he wasn’t talking about me but there was no one else who had said what I said. I didn’t lash out, he lashed out at me then when I defended myself he backtracked. But you’re quick to defend Owen and quick to attack the Black panthers, Malcolm X and Black feminists. I’m consistent you’re not. I’m quite sure my disagreeing with Jesse was offensive to you, you know you hate that kind of Blackness.

Abagond’s spot on. Your version of Black culture is voodoo, tap dancing and Louis Armstrong, you use any mention of contemporary Black artists as a way to label characters pop culturalists, but hold pop artists like Nikki Minaj and Beyonce up as genuine African diaspora culture.

If you’re unable to see why the things you’ve said are racist you are one. We don’t have to list musicians as a Black culture card unlike you, because we are Black. Imagine how pathetic it would be if someone made a valid point about Black history and I dismissed it because they didn’t find a way to incorporate Monk into their post.

I don’t call people racist or misogynists lightly, you’re probably the first person I have labelled as one. I’ve disagreed with posters but I have never gone off on anyone until I lost my temper with you. I would not trust you around little Black girls. Your commentary is highly disturbing.

There’s been no time on this blog where you’ve respected differing opinions since I’ve been here, you have always dismissed people who share a different opinion because you’ve either been on the ground, you feel you’ve studied their race or ethnic group. You dismiss Africans on African, a Brazilian woman on how sge feels as a Brazilian woman, Black people on Black issues, women on being women, war victims on the wars they’ve been victimised by, American history because you’ve been on the ground, Asians on their experiences using Mao to dismiss them, adults on all their own thoughts.

There’s no point in going around in circles, those who recognise what you’re doing already know. You can try to paint me as something I’m not to throw the light off you, but I’m always quick to ask instead of tell, quick to respectfully agree to disagree, clarify and apologise if necessary, careful not to respond with ad hominems, I try to be patient and I’ve don’t get into arguments. The Jesse Owens thread where I 100% disagree with what he said as did Abagond, which upset people, and my one post to clarify after being attacked is the only thing you can recall. Because I do not behave like you and I never will. You’re a waste of time. Just don’t talk to me on the blog anymore and that’ll be the best resolve.

Lastly, no one said they represented Black people, people who happen to be Black were discussing their community, you came in to represent Black people since you perceive everything to be about Brazil and passistas. No one here has ever asked you to accept their views we’ve asked you to stop patronising us by policing our views, but you return by insulting us. You don’t seem to have any memory of this argument. You continually argue against things no one said, call us names, judge us by mixed heritage, geographical location, age, gender, theories on s-x experience, theories on anti interracial s-x conspiracies. You dismiss all opinions stated by poc that are contrary to yours as being the result of Black militant rhetoric. You imagine insults towards your wife and Brazil and demand apologies when no one has mentioned them, claim you’ve never said things you have, refuse to admit it and apologise when it’s reposted.

Let’s just stop all correspondence on here. When you see my posts scroll past and I will do the same to you. This is the best thing to do.

“BR,
Linda, do you deny that the exact words you expressed about how everyone just gets all dressed up provacitivly and dances heauxs dances , which are basicly Afro diasporic dances, for two weeks in carnival, and then its over isnt a South American mind set? An attitude that you run into frequently , and especialy upper class white South Americans , but make no mistake , prevails across the board?”

Linda says,

Nope, what I said was this:
“ where the women are all provocatavely dressed, aka meaning they are dressed like “heauxs” and No one cares because that’s what Carnival is all about…and we all dance and enjoy ourselves.”

So, I never said we were “dancing like heauxs at Carnival” – but of course, since twerking is popular, I’ve seen some young women twerking at the local festivals of course.

If you are going to try to paraphrase me to continue this dumb argument, then at least get it right.

because you and I will never see eye to eye over this issue of twerking and I’m not interested in your psycho babble about Hispanic attitudes or conservative attitudes, trying to tie it to me, like you actually KNOW me.

Get Over it, BR — I think you are being past ridiculous for bringing it up… black and brown people Actually have the ability to look at something and if it quacks, we call it a duck.

The same way, that:

Twerking is a heaux dance, fact… the same way ‘water is wet’

but just because a women twerks, does not mean that she, herself, is a heaux…that is the difference in my statement that you just don’t seem to get!

you’re too caught up in trying to force your views on others, you aren’t even listening to what other people are saying.

I’m not interested in changing my mind, nor do I care if you keep your points of views… I don’t need you to agree with me, you’re not a dog that is supposed to follow.

but you need slow down because you are coming off as slightly “unhinged”

(yes, you are getting hammered from all sides, so it’s understandable but you are not coming off as the “winner, debunker, annihilator, victor, truthholder” of anything — reign yourself in BR)

Personally I don’t like porn. I think it’s too violent (even when it’s not violent porn) and especially too commercial. To me it’s really an expression of the will to possess everything and make big money by Capitalism.

What’s interesting about “s-x”, vocabulary and languages/cultures is how the words used to describe s-xual activities are really cultural.

In France, 20 sth years ago, you didn’t hear “le s-xe”, but “la s-xualité”. Now, people use “le s-xe” as a translation of “s-x” and it clearly designate a “product” you get (by purchasing it or having it as “gift” for someone else).

French people tend to say “make love” (“faire l’amour”) in the place of “have s-x”, simply because we don’t have a similar expression.
…………………………………………………………………
BR

Now this is a fantastic subject

Cornlia, dont be so uptight…at p0rn hub, you can find your taste , there is all kinds aproaches

You are so ready to cap on “American thinking” about it, but you are coming off as uptight…the French dont have any corner on higher s-xual atitudes, I live in Brazil..

this is what seperates us from China, the freedom to view things like pornography

There are plenty of women in the porn industy who would kick your butt insinuating they are being exploited…

I dont listen to words when I watch, just keep the dam sound down, this is really hilarious, we are talking about p0rn and you are going into a dictionary about words

The women get paid more than the men….you are so hung up on your “American thinking”…

Uptight womens lib with their “oh my god its s-xual exploitation, women in a bikini is being a s-x object”..hades yes, Im living in a place where women dressin the skimpiest bikinis anywhere there are women who love a good hard slam

I dont care if people dont like porn, dont want to watch it, but keep your uptight judgements to yourself

I dont force myself on my female partners, if they have s headache , if they are on menstration, if they are away on business,if they have a sickness that sex might not help, because it can make you feel better if you have certain kinds of symtons, Im going to go look at porn hub , get some baby wipes
oh yeah, and “its capatalism!!” …would you give me a fuking break

man, Abagond, just when I thought we would get back to the good old days of talking about booty size and ladies were bringing in their pictures to show how fine they are in their avatars…

man, the uptighties are taking over

As far as the labeling, there are just things you have to ignore and discard and skip over….if i see a lady ive liked before in a clip that has some degrading or techniques Im not expert in , like an@l

dont anybody implicate or try to put down anyone else for using p0rn or lets battle about that…because I sure defend anyones right to never want to look at porn

By the way, Adeen
But, I just want to say, I acknowledge you are a young women, who is developing , and discovering how you want to feel about yourself

Well , Solesearch, its amazing some people are really s-xualy repressed

These woman are very sensual and this is what woman’s lib people would lable being s-xualy exploited and a s-x object …victoms of s-xism

I am so happy that these shrill banshee types who are s-xualy repressed and lost sight of real problems women face, are so far away from this beach, and beleive me, these wonderful sensual women would stone any schrill banshee from sticking their repressed nose where it doesnt belong….

I just want to make it clear, all my put downs about uptight people dont include Peanut and Adeen, Peanut is my freind, and I wont throw her under the bus, and Adeen is a young developing mind..

the rest of you are stiff Taliban , commie pinko uptighties

You are boring, Cornlia…I see through you..

I admire women who do porn, they are so uninhibited
I think prostitution should be legal also

you prudes…

yeah Herneith, you go shopping and play bingo, Im going out and look at string bikinis in provacative poses and look at porn hub

…”pages stuck together with African goo…” but dont worry, Ill gladly take the hit to stand up for what is right…

“you will take my porn only from my cold dead hands…” you commie pinkos…Fox a55 holes think commies are too liberal, I know they only take your freedoms away

you are so tired Cornlia, get my @ss to South Beach and decadant capatalism, where they are starting to wear string bikinis and the women walk around dressed like they are porn stars, dressed so s-xy and provacative….South Beach is trying to catch up to Brazil

Any of you women ever tried on a fio dental and put it up the crack of your @ss?

Your little implications about how you think p0rn involved in s-x is inferior to your correct way and then denials….you take your petty judgements and keep them for you…

you are welcome to your opinion and I have an opinion about your opinion

Im not ranting, Im laughing

You think its me offended that you all dont think like me? What happened here is a bunch of people who are saying oh they arnt judging me, but, they make a statement about p0rn and out of the side of their mouths comes a little put down or judgement about p0rn (NOT BR)…somehow, then, capitalism, racism, s-xism and exploitation of women all start coming out on the table and some kind of judgements about it…

in Brazil, who Im not saying is more advanced in s-xual attitudes, is much more advanced in sensuality allowing women to dress incredibly s-xy and wear the skimpiest bikinis ever on the beach…yet, in some beaches in Florida, the string bikini was banned in favor of diapors..that is the same mentality that would look down on p0rn (I dont know the general attitude about p0rn in Brazil, only that you can access it with no problem like in Cuba, China or North Korea)

Im laughing at this discusion….our Jewish, Chritian, Muslim religions have ruined us from the start on this

prostitutes are more aware of how to protect themselves than the average person

im so glad you all are having such rich intimite trancsending one on one meaningful moments with someone else in this moment in life,ill be having a rich intimite moment with myself I try to string together a trail of the hedonous life…and stick to that rightous path as long as I can

s-x with someone you just met and will never see again,, for just s-x sake, no love or intimicy involved at all?

when I was younger , sneaked my fathers copy of Tropic of Cancer and left smudge mark finger prints all over the pages that were hot…and that is why we are going to have conflict about it

much fewer of them are p0rn sex addicts and a lot more of them are abusers of alcohol

(SAME BACKTRACK) Omnipresent, you got this back @ss words, I absolutly support p0rn is not for everyone, and, I dont shoot out of the side of my mouth , that people who dont like p0rn , have something a little off

hung up on the repressed religous dogmas in our society or dont know anything themselves and cant teach

you just dont get it, Omnipresent, it never was about bragging what Ive done in the sack, its about defending from repressive, moralistic judgements that are ready to imply that watching p0rn is really not that healthy

fuk that , Omnipresnt, I watch p0rn on a regular basis, and anyone who wants to sluff that off as somewhat unhealthy, or not normal taunted and ridiculed

you sure are missing the sh!t out of the points im trying to make and putting it back on me like Im trying to judge people for not liking or wanting to watch p0rn

join in ridiculing

What a foolish point on your part

Yeah, you arnt kidding, Cornlia, I bump heads with people like you and Bulanik

women in brazil For sure they wont be feminists who are uptight about women being in string bikinis…its a way of life down there, they just arnt hung up on it…have you ever worn a fio dental? Ill answer more of the really repressed statements
just chalk yourself as just another person at the mercy of the repressed jewish, christian, muslim values we are all damaged goods

If people cant start to perceive that, you will just suffer in your little corners of uptight judgemental darkness…I want no part of that…it stinks like repression

i rarly see p0rn videos that out right depict rape

you are holding up a very few men in the world who have reached a tantric state

People on here have no idea what p0rn is Why not try it, it’s not too late.
Perhaps because you don’t and have never touched this deep, “near-cosmic” (lol) pleasure in your life yet, you just don’t get it, and you have truly missed out.

women shaking their booty in North Africa

Lori Alexia, besides representing the kind of black beauty that doesnt get any kind of acknowledgement in normal media, spent various years in the porn industry with no problems

How quick you are ready to slap the “racist ” tag on me

lies and agendas

I laid out my case in a very powerful way that really couldnt be negated, and in all these cases, I brought in solid hard core facts jungle boogey racism lots of laughs and ridiculousness whether Im racist or not, or to try to be accepted by you or anyone on this blog into march step agreement…bring an example where I am racist

I frequently have looked at porn and will until I die

There is only one correct answer “Im not really into p0rn, it doesnt turn me on, but , I have nothing against anyone who does use it on a regular basis, because that is their choice

if you cant understand that, go and read some Chomsky

jive

implies I put her down as a black woman, but wont bring any proof to the table

you are just full of french fried potatoes droopy radish

it just shows what weak charactor you have

I even brought in a link about a black feminist in p0rn…you see that

its funny here on the threads I argue with people on, I bring in a huge amount of facts anything I bring in on the negativity of communism in the cold war, all Im doing is bringing in relevant facts

they start personal attacks

I planned it this way the beach in Brazil is the total sh!t there is no luxery in Dubai I would trade my moments on the beaches of Brazil for, there is nothing in Ireland that could come close to the alto astral that being near the sensuality of these women is equal to …then again, you have no idea what it is like to be in the middle of a 12 bar up tempo bebop , or sambao with some passistas..I love how I roll..

I have cultivated my s-xual energy just to give myself the power to face each day with adrenalin and endorphins flowing, it is an elixer, Im not talking about actualy the s-x act, that is just the culmination of the sexual energy flowing to be done at the right time and right place

anything other than that and we are going to battle hahahaha I dont care if you go or stay, I live in Brazil, …your “its all American thinking” is your little hangup mantra

you dont deserve that respect That French fried thinking only turns into greasy bullsh!t when it comes out on the other end
This is what happens with uptight repressive thinking, it scares away all the people on this blog who use p0rn regularly

Dont worry p0rn users

in Brazil, its free, and out in the open, just get to a Brazilian beach, and deep sensuality is right out in the open

As the costumes in carnival got smaller and smaller and more s-xy, people kind of started just wearing them on the beach, or bathing suit styles like the carnival syles I really became hooked on nudity and senuality in New York, working with Louis Falco

I would see women totaly nude and the shape of their drop dead beautiful vulvas

took some classes just to be in the middle of all that fine booty
Id go out of classes bouncing off the walls with such a high astral…but, you really have to be on the inside to tap into sensuality in a big northeast urban city like New York, in Brazil, its right out at the beach or at carnival or at the baile funk, open to everyone, all ages for free

high dosage erotica

you trying to find something wrong or strange in my personality and just implying p0rn is something less noble psycho analise just perpetuate the repression

Women in p0rn are uninhibited about what to do

you are superimposing them

I planned making my older age filled with s-xual desire and fantacy and sensuality, by coming to Brazil

being faithful in a relationship, means that looking at p0rn is the only way I can see another type woman have s-x ,see her knowledge of how to orally satisfy a man, see the shape and coloring of her vulva and the unique design of her anus and how it looks with the male genital filling it up…it answers that curiosity without having to cheat…I like that

You really are uptight with all your talk

HAPPY MOTHERS DAY OUT THERE TO ALL YOU MOTHERS!!

your statement is fine except you still have this judgemental tone.

Not real, you mean those women licking the balls are just avatars?

I went down to Brazil in 86, and you see bikinis so small that pubic hair would just pop out all over
……………………………………………………………………………….
Sorry to say, but you sound more like a 19 year old school kid than a real grown up man.
…………………………………………………………………………………….

If this isnt a put down uptight judgemental statement , I dont know what is Ive had relationships with prostitutes, and yes, Ive made them come

if a woman is going to lick the balls in real life , someone has to show her

Our ancient ancesters painted graphic s-xual paintings on the walls

ive strained muscles and gotten cramps myself performing s-x,

go read some Chomsky talking about intimite s-x in a long term relationship is definitly out of your experiances at this point
………………………………………………………………………………….
BR on p0rn for Black progression
………………………………………………………………………………….

Its funny, a black man could be shot and hung for having s-x with a white woman not too long ago, in p0rn now, it is somthing you can see easily

black women were rarly portrayed in p0rn 60 years of so ago, yet now, not only do they own their own businesses , but, there are more realistic depictions of black woman’s looks and bodies in porn than in the mainstream media

Women like Lori Alexia, is dark skinned, short and compact and with a big incredibly shaped booty..you dont see that type of woman in the media as beautiful, yet that shape and look is one devastatingly beautiful look a black woman can have….lets face it , normal everyday media is does not represent black female beauty very well at all, but I can name a bunch of black women in p0rn that are devastatingly beautiful , with features like their booties better represented than anything in main stream media

The other thing about the shaved genital region

I love it when my wife has depilacao and has her genital region shaved

oral s-x with her when she is shaven is really a treat, and I like it with her hair also, and, in differant positions, it looks really cool
I think prostitution should be legal…and some of the girls were cold blooded and werent interested in orgasm and others were anything but cold blooded and came

I dont agree with anyone judging people finding their s-xuality or repressing sensuality like the people who would call women in string bikinis being s-xualy exploited

and, frankly, Im surprised …I really am, you have always come off as having some kind of world knowledge, traveled a lot, lots of experiances, I would think your opinion about porn or shaved female genital area, wouldnt have that judgemental tone in it

Hey, cyber internet interactions are a bunch of cyber blips from people hiding behind their computor screens and personal psychological analysis and accuasations eventualy they have to look in the mirror

I can find white women being demeaned and protrayed in degrading s-xual circumstances also, but, I can also find women of all colors in very well done s-xual portrayals any racist who gets off on black women being abused has their own issues to deal with …it relfects on their taste more than pornografy in general

It has nothing to make me feel better. I don’t feel good about this whole interchange. Wish people could have a healthy conversation.

I stopped having a conversation a while ago after I learned there was no possibility of a healthy conversation. In fact, he repeatedly rubbed salt in a particularly painful traumatic wound I had since childhood while telling me that my wound never happened.

BR has attacked a lot of people on this blog often dismissing their points over them being White, or Black, or Asian, or Hispanic, or women, or young, or foreign. BR always stands by what he’s said. He’s extremely, I suppose, “liberal” so I used the example of him doing this with women as a parting gift. But if he feel uncomfortable about the post I will ask Abagond to remove it.

I stand by everything I said there about porn…except, I dont use pinko in my phrases..quit dicking with the words..and , you should see the uptight , repressed, comments I was responding too…

.so you think you dont go balístic with other people , Monroe? What about the huge exchange with that guy , I think his name was Adonis?…you are in denial…seeing your manner in those arguments just clued me into how low you stoop, and what a long winded blow hard , hiding behind political agendised rhetoric , you are. Quit bsing…its s pleasure to stand up to people like you , who think you can just roll,over people and guilt trip them , and brow beat them into submision

Kiwi, you outright lied about what I said about mosh being associeted with terrorists…I despise that kind of lying…lets see, who did call me racist

Anti American , Sam , so obsessed with his anti Americanism he lies through his teeth , who thinks shaved female genitália is like pubescent boys, depicted my absolute profesional relationship with black female dancers, passistas, as third world jungle sex bunnies , dancing for my pleasure, as Monroe depicts them as their strictly for my pleasure…this a top flight profesional respectable well paid , highly artístic endeaver…reduced to clichêd , demeaning , degrading stereotypes,

Kiwi and Jefe doing back flips trying unsucessfully various times to pin lies on me of being anti Asian…like insisting I thought if Jefe as a perpetual foreigner, when I never did…people so quick on the trigger finger to lable me racist , they trip over their own genitália

Hey , Matari, what do you think of Kiwi and Jefe?

Some name I cant remember, a nervous white woman , who said she just started being racist aware, who couldnt even sum up her thoughts

Then you got Mbetti, why? Because I think Noam Chomsky is a chump, or I defend Obama with the Taliban…Solesearch because I defend booty dancing, and offend her Christian sensibilities, Bulanik tried to imply many dirty things and absolutly lied and said Im a stalker…total rubbish..people who I basicly disagreed with and , I handed them their heads on a platter, so , they revert to calling me racist…like some all purpose insult they drag out because they cant handle that their arguments were weak…some of these people much worse than others….Solesearch doesnt have a vendetta against me , but , she is wrong to acuse me of racism…I understand her Christian beleifs put her at odds with my booty thread comments and porn thread comments…Herneith just repeats the same joke she capped last year, she needs to get rid of that pig bladder she calls a purse and come up with better material , or get her hot water pipes fixed to thaw out her permafrost bodily fluids

So , some people , like Monroe, Sam , Kiwi, Jefe , Bulanik , have out right lied, degraded and demeaned , in their attemt to slander me…their opinions on me being racist are worth squat…I flush their opinion down the toilet

This blog , that I respect, used to have threads like big bottom girls, threads about thick women, booty, there used to be many interracial couples or individuals in interracial relationships coming on, it didnt used to be so anti American…

Now, there is a putrid stench prevailing somewhere among some commentors, a repressive, anti American , anti interracial sex, culturaly ignorant, sexualy inhibited , smell like a dead animal….ready to slap racist on anything that disagrees with them and stands up to their bs…its too bad….

Sure, ok , Abagond….yet , that absolutly doesnt mean I back down from the points Im making…these actual quotes are the proof I need to make sure my phrases arnt changed ..and , I stand by what I am saying…Monroe has deeply mischaractorised my statements , people I work with and my family, I have every reason to not trust her intentions

And lets get it straight, nothing I said about porn is racist…only gale Dines agendas would rant its mysiginist

And it doesnt change the facts that people have lied , mischaractorised , and demeaned me , my family , and profesional relationships I have with black dancers…Monroe portraying my feelings towards dancers as prostitutes is an insult lie to my family and them

The truth is , you yourself, Abagond , about 4 times now , have grossly misrepresented my position…you are very wrong about trying to link me with points in Anas article, and I refuted totaly, each point , yet , you bring it up constantly…I know exactly what she is talking about better than anyone here , since I live in Brazil , and in actual fact, she would be at odds with Monroes points about prostitution in Brazil…that is how well I know her position

You make it seem like i have a one dimensional point of view about black people, yet , I actualy am standing up for black people who are maligned by political agendas, people called selling out, black people in relationships with white people, and I bring in cultural referances that are ignored…I accept black people in all the differant ways they exist, each person on who they are, yet , on this blog , black people are maligned big time for their choices in life , like who they chose to mate with…and kiwi calling me mysiginist after he has raked Asian American women over the coals borders on hilariously ridiculous

Monroe keeps hammering like my impresion of black people only includes Loius Armstrong, tap , voodoo , as she incorrectly calls it , and I dont practice candomble religion , which could be pseudo apropriation of culture, I am studying and performing the concepts of the drum dance, that hold deep treasure about the forming of concepts of our popular cultures in the Americas, and what ever else was on her small list , implying that is my impresion of black people….but that is total bs…those are subjects I have argued on here, it doesnt represent my impresion of black people at all…I dont listen to Louis Armstrong records as much as I should , Im just touched by his history and he was wrongly maligned by the black militant political agenda of the sixties,,which, by the way , I defend much of that political agenda, but wont cow tow to the excess negative judgements and exclusions put out that time

In actual fact , there is much black culture I dont have an affinity for , and know less about, like the black American church , which is the foundation in gospel music that has produced so many incredible singers , even though I have recorded some gospel demos for a black American producor…its just not where my interest is…so any notion Im holding myself up as the expert on black culture is false …I am an expert on drum dance culture, and the decades of being involved deeply in two differant countries with Afro diasporic beats dances and the origins has given me deep insight

But , these whole lists Monroe brings in , may disagree with her position , and others , but they arnt racist…Ill argue against any phrase you want to scrutinise, that has been isolated from the context of the arguments I was going against , just like with you , Abagond , and your mistaken notions of my arguments with Anas article

These quotes are taken out if context…pages of goo was from Satan Force, and , looking at the commie pinko phrase , now ,mas I checked it out , is obvious sarcasm…

Isolating sarcasm , and implying that is my serious position , is a very dubious tactic to try and peg some one

When I see people claiming the cia invented Boko Harém , Isis, and every other jihadist group, I feel like getting sarcástic and ridiculing

I stand by what I said , I will defend everything Monroe brings in as not racist

And I have already proved the kind of lying going down on me to try and prove Im racist

For anyone expert here on bringing in links to comments , like Abagond here , and Kiwi has shown …bring in the link where I associeted mosh with terrorists…go check the Obama photo number I forget, and just find one proof I said that

Yeah I was wrong about pinko and mento that Linda mentioned , and I owned up to it…I will own up to proven facts, not lies and mischaractorisatiins

And people are lying and mischaractorising me m and falsely using the term racist to bludgeon over me when I disagree about American foreign policy, bootie dancing , anti interracial issues and porn…and I wont back down an inch from these lies and mischaractorisatiins

The truth is , ive caught you in false statements , and you definitly jumped the gun and tried to acuse me a number of times of bogus anti Asian attitudes

You are definitly one of the chumps hurting false acuasations at me , using anti Asian as sime club to try to beat over the head of me , when you were totaly wrong…chump , I always knew you were born in America

Some of your portraysls and Kiwis agreement of why America went to war in Japan and Viet Nam , are highly suspect…and , I resentments Monroes implication that the Viet vets I know are anti Asian , and that was my point….dont railroad people you dont even know

I think Guevara would be an interesting and relevant subject. His ambiguous and changeable attitudes towards black people alone make him worthy of analysis. There is also a great deal more of interest.

Spanish America and Spain itself have been crucial in the development of both Communist and Anarchist thought and action. Some good things have emerged and some awful. Guevara, flawed though he certainly was, is a prominent icon from those huge and diverse movements.

Of course, the words “Communist” and “Anarchist” are like red rags to a troll here, so any post touching on those topics, even tangentially, would no doubt attract a great deal of loud, but ultimately meaningless, noise.

There is a comment in moderation , but point Ill make here is, the pinco comment was taken out of context and it was sarcasim, isolating sarcasm , answering comments I detest , is a dubious way to peg someone

I have stated in serious discusionn i dont think anyone in here is a communist, I say they buy into the commie bs to put down American foreign policy..that is my absolute pisition

Hearing anti Americans who defend che, go attacking my sex life , and implications of sexing third world black women , gives me total liscence to be sarcástic , scrutinising and demeaning right back…and I never did it in a racist way…which is what I am being accused of…my positions on porn, American foreign policy, booty dancing and porn , brings out dolts who want to call me racist

As anyone who can read will observe, I did not say I believe that Guevara “changed his racism”.

Racists comments of his are a matter of clear record. Later apparent changes of outlook are, on the other hand, far from beyond question and are hotly debated – especially amongst people who would like to admire Guevara but who do not find it possible to reconcile struggle for freedom with explicit racism. This ongoing debate is why I described Guevara’s attitudes as “ambiguous and changeable” and acknowledge his failings in the phrase “flawed though he certainly was”.

Guevara was a Marxist revolutionary, I am not. He is not a horse in my race, but a notable figure in the history of a politics that has had wide and enduring influence in Spanish America and beyond.

BR, you are a foolish, sexist boor. I honestly cannot decipher enough of your ramblings to decide whether or not you are also racist. You have frequently and deliberately misrepresented things I say here, and things that others have said. Your “debating style” is to try to shout everyone else down and insult people on all sides. You criticise things about which you display a profound lack of knowledge and understanding. Your jibes are puerile and fatuous.

It is not possible to have a meaningful or constructive debate with you unless one starts from the position of agreeing with you.

I was concerned about this but I see you’re proud of what you said. I don’t want to hurt you or anything like that.

Adonis and I had a respectful debate and came to see eye to eye.

BR, everything in that post was taken from one thread where you were attacking people for stating their views. They weren’t talking to you, but as usual you began attacking people and psychoanalysed their views as being byproducts of their gender and race, mocking and patronising and dictating what people think and say when they’re not talking to you. I was simply trying to show you that you fight to moderate people all the time. And then you deny that you’ve ever told them what to do. People defend themselves and their right to their opinions but when they respond in defending themselves you claim they’re attacking you.

I hoped maybe you would see. I don’t wish to do this with you anymore, I don’t mind debating but arguing isn’t good. Hopefully you understand this wasn’t out of malice. I’m gonna leave it here.

I was just wondering… I saw a link to b.r.’s you tube link and I was kinda surprised because none of the fellow musicians are black… anecdotally speaking.. I would expect that at least one of the other musicians would be black and that b.r. would have at least one male friend in the video who would be able to speak about the afro-diasporic music to enrich b.r.’s experience in that musical venue. I was shocked, in a way, because the video looks so much like a cruise ship minstrel show..just my first impression.

If it’s any consolation, I don’t think there was or is anything perverted about what you said. The idea that a completely bald female genital region is an example of an artificial product, a prepubescent commodity vs. the adult female human body, has been expressed from men and women, writers to academia, for a long time now. I don’t believe that makes you a raging pervert or deviant as has been suggested.

True, but I have notice whites have a particular need or desire to bring to light the short comings of blacks. I always here complaints from whites about the double standards and how the media ignores whites, but none of them take notice that they ignore their own. I am curious on the racial dynamics of searches for black criminals or black murders via police or anything. I bet the majority are whites.

I’m not sure what you mean. I was asking because I didn’t understand what you meant when you asked Jefe if he felt better.

I won’t go into it too much since this is the wrong thread, but in regards to the picture, yes, it is a very complicated dynamic. There’s the issue of the history of Black men being publicly crucified to an intensified degree for things that many men do, but then there’s something just as problematic in that there’s a tendency to compensate for that by immediately excusing these kinds of things, which in this case, minimizes what was done to a woman. This happened with Mike Tyson where the woman was ridiculed despite sustaining injuries to her vagina, this happened with Chris Brown where many people immediately asked if Chris was okay, and quickly strugged it off as everyone-makes-mistakes, while insisting Rihanna must have done something to deserve it and labelling her a liar when she said she never hit him. It’s a problem in the Black community, this problem sparked a twitter campaign called BlackpowerisforBlackmen not too long ago. It’s a very tangled issue on the intersectionality of minorities and who’s considered the most endangered. I won’t touch on this in the Rice thread because I know the ladies really don’t want that thread to become about racial dynamics. It’s a touchy and complicated problem that’s only just beginning to be touched on. What would have happened if Janay wasn’t a Black woman, but a White woman? Would as many members of the Black community still defend his actions. Race, gender, the double minority factor of the victim being of minority race and gender. The are blind spots.

king kat, first, the links from my youtube channal are getting screwed by word press, is that the actual clip you mean? and , the link above may do the same thing…if mine doesnt bring up dr lonnie smith richie hart andrew scott potter, you can go to my youtube channal and look it up

if the youtube you brought in is the link you intended, you got to be kidding, those are some extremly top flight musicians, dr lonnie smith is top class from the youtube i brought in, do you think that is cruise ship

all due respect to bernie warrell and the ohio players, and i do mean respect, do you have any idea who mccoy tyner, bud powell, herbie hancock are? i deal with classicly trained musicians all the time, in new york , juliard trained, and , i have to retrain them how to play jazz or samba

with all the respect i have for bernie warrell, do you honestly think he could get on a bandstand with guys playing mccoy tyner music? playing samba like the link you brought in? do you think he can touch de lonnie smith? i dont think he could come close…these are quantifiable differances…ive played funk, huge amounts with all black bands…mostly fromn my early chicago days…in a huge amount of black clubs on the south and west side…i continued to be hired by incredible black jazz musicians like bunky green, lonnie smith, sonny sharrok, alex foster, walter bishop jr, all killers…and play all black clubs , but not as much as my early days, and with little video record….i recently played a coco fest in arco verde, i was the only white guy on the stage…sandwiched between the incredible afro brazilian coc groups, an incredible linc to music from slave times

are you doubting my credibility? were you actualy reffering to one of my sons videos? because he would be very happy to take that up with you…and , im delighted to work with him in an innovative hip hop, samba, mangue beat presentation that can include break dance and passistas

my question is, what is your credibility to judge it? what is your knowledge of music and what it takes to put it on, to lable top flight brazilian musicians playing killer samba , but , also go out of culture and play be bop as good as any american, as cruise ship?

im extremly competitive when it comes to music, and , if someone wants to take a pot shot at me or what i have done, i say what have you done? and if you are a musician, lets take it to the bandstand and get it on,my group against yours…compare cuts from your recordings to mine, compare your youtubes to mine…forget about celebrity or money, lets see the music, some of the most incredible musicians i know never got recognition

look , i dont care if you dont like my music, and much of music is personal opinion, my comment on bernie warrell and the ohio players was simply that, at that point, r and b and funk was getting more kick arranged and changed on the b section and i welcomed the continuing beat flow of hip hop and disco, strictly my taste opinion, that resembles the continuing flow of clave and jazz swing…as a drummer, looking for those continuing beat flows, i gravatate towards that

buddhuu, typical brit stiff sexual outlook, hey ,americans got it from the brits…and, thank god for brazil, i shed the last vestages of uptight western thinking, even though brazil is the west when i came down here, even though i got my early introductions working with dancers and how unashamed of their bodies they are…

.yes, yesterday on the beach was nothing short of spectacular, incredibly beautiful women, and women of all ages in bikinis…the permision and privalege given by brazilian women, who love and enjoy their sensuality, to all men as long as they dont dog, to participate with them in their sensuality, is one of the most liberating feelings on the planet, and actualu promotes well being and nothing but positive respectful feelings towards women…and to see them uninhibited and naked and free, and provacative, because string bikinis take nudity and make it provacative, ..i feel much more empathy and love towards women, , while militant feminism promotes negative feelings, distance and division..and bad feelings, militant meaning the white womens militant sexual objectification wing…which i dont include violence against women or sexual coercion.

its funny how people dont get che…this strictly political pitch towards the black militant revolutionaries in america, who embraced marxism and actualy did try miserable failed attempts at armed insurection, in truth, to the credit of the black american civil rights movement, most black americans regected marxism, and , its interesting to see the people who arnt american cone on this blog, having read black american militant movement rhetoric, and can spout it, and then try to imply that this or that ism would be better or that the american system should be torn down but in the nitty gritty, will actualy turn on what they term black american thinking…i dont attack so called black american thinking, because there is no black monolithic anerican thinking, i attack only certain aspects of black militant political agenda, that actualy degrades and excludes other black americans for not fitting in

…orpeople defend a cuban school speech with hollow referances to a space for all no matter what color

you can find these shallow strictly political false platitudes coming from white racists all the time, like the sea hawkes owner…he got an award from the naacp…once again, nothing monroe brought in equals what that owner said…nothing…people defend him saying it only came from the motorcycle diaries,in 53 or 54…but, in the cuban revolution, in 59, he said blacks will get out of the revolution exactly what they put in…nothing…

i actualy saw a black american schill for castro try to defend this in the most strange back flip mannor…ive seen all the tired defences…

people try to champion his work in africa as proof…in truth, he was a failure in the congo, the communist congo party regecting his violent revolution or nothing philosophy , kicked him out, next stop, bolivia…his death…

there is no real honest reflection on his racist comments, absolutly nothing monroe brought in of what i said equals his blatent continuous racist statements

while che had a couple of black cubans under his wing who testify in his favor, ive seen the docu , who served with him until the end, there are other black cubans who attest to his racism…black american solders in viet nam served under some racist officers

in truth, the huge legacy he really represents in south america is, how some really ignorant people , got inspired by his call to a violent marxist revolution, and got led over a cliff in miserable attempts at armed insurections, these were mostly white people, politicly motivated or ignorant students…they got brutaly put down by american supported military dictatorships, but no american boots on the ground…the biggest problem these revolutionaries faced is, even though the real people hated the dictatorships, they didnt join in on a communist revolution, they absolutly rejected it, the same as the black american civil rights movement regected marxism

the biggest lie facing south american mentality now about the cold war conflicts, is how they cant look in the mirror and face the truth that the marxists who went for violent revolution, who were inspired by che, were as much responsible for the violence and death and destruction as the dictators…they set the movement back and faced even greater brutal represion for their violent bombings, kidnappings, bank robberies and assasinations, that they trained for in cuba, china, soviet union …yet, down into today, there is a brainwashing that wants to blame america and the cia for everything …which is exactly why i recognise that putrid smell coming from other threads and commentors on here, who blame the cia for inventing this and that….pure bs

@b.r. you seem to fit the m.o. of a classically trained manipulative man, for example,
“Through their shrewd machinations, they convince you to give up something of yourself in order to serve their self-centered interests.
In work, social, and family situations, once a manipulator succeeds”http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/communication-success/201406/how-spot-and-stop-manipulators
It doesn’t matter what my:credibility is,i.e. ” my question is, what is your credibility to judge it? what is your knowledge of music and what it takes to put it on”

I do find it laughable that a local drummer playing cruise ship minstrel shows could teach ANY professional musician such as Bernie Worrell, a child prodigy btw, anything about jazz or samba and is delusional.

All your talk about who you have played with is just imaginary, show me the you tubes with all your professional musicians.. nope. nothing there…

I suppose you don’t like Tower of Power either, you could show them some things too, or how about Tania Maria, the Lady from Brazil, I suppose you can teach her a couple things or two, LOL.:http://www.taniamaria.org/index2.htm

Invest in cheap keyboards or lay the affected keyboard out in the sun to dry. Better yet, don’t drink tea whilst perusing some of these loon’s posts! It seems I’ve spent a small fortune purchasing keyboards.

Man, and I thought I had met some crazy people in my life but this guy is pretty unique.

I wonder is this type of cold war era racism still living in USA? When I was there in late 80’s and early 90’s it seemed, perhaps just seemed, that the openly racist attitudes were in decline and more subtle forms were emerging. The same goes with the idea of porn being “liberation” instead of business or other views about women in general which our friend here has shown. Is there a reverse going on, or did already take place? I just wonder…

@BR

Since you continue to bring me up I just want to tell you that when I visited both spanish and black Harlem I was not on a safari like you say. I just went to take a look around as I was curious. But that did not make me such an expert on the Black Experience as playing jazz has made you. Neither did my visits to Africa. Perhaps it is because I don’t play jazz. Also I had more interaction in US with the native americans over there than I had with black americans, but since neither me or my native american friends played any jazz, that did not make me an expert on their lives either.

The thing is, you are an old racist. In fact, your racism runs in so deep that you do not even get it. You really rant and rave to BLACK people that they don’t know what being black means. You tell them they don’t know their culture, that they are wrong if they do not like porn, prostitution, sexualisation of little children, show their buttocks for you and hail you for playing jazz. That is how racist you are. You just do not get it.

That is why you feel you are right when it comes to the black people of the world. That is why you know better than any african what it means to african. And yet your talking about african this or that reveals you have no clue about Africa, the most multicultural, most diverese continent on earth. Simply because most of the people living on that continen look just like a bunch of black folks from old Tarzan movies you assume you know what they are all about. And naturally, you know that better than even they themselves. Simply because you play jazz.

Jazz is great music, even I like some jazz tunes, but believe me: it does not make you almighty when it comes to black people and their lives and cultures. You are still just a white dude playing black music, perhaps even well, but still…

King Kat just ignore him. He’s still stereotyping and psychologizing people because of their race, gender, or nationality. He’s not about respecting Black people and Black culture, it’s about a competition, a one up man ship. Just leave it alone. Everything will always be this way with BR, so there’s no point.

Yes, this is how racism is now, it’s usually this subtle variation, in fact, misogyny works this way now too. That extreme White supremacist racism has been replaced with the condescension, the grandfathering, paternalism, the perception of Black people as c00ns, as all the stereotypes that ever were, but being entertained and championing it under the guise of being for Black people.

With women, people champion misogyny by brainwashing women with the idea that images and stereotypes that were once thought of as misogyny, as empowering.

Aah, forgot to put that in parenthesis. Dude, I’m sorry. You can delete that post or put it in brackets, Aba.

Minority group false empowerment syndrome.

Female chauvinist p!g feminism.

According to Levy, raunch culture is a product of the unresolved feminist sex wars – the conflict between the women’s movement and the sexual revolution.Another source places the beginnings of raunch culture in the permissive society of the 1960s, which in postfeminist perspective was less about female sexual liberation than fulfilling the male fantasy of unlimited female availableness. Levy also characterizes raunch culture as a backlash against the stereotypes of “prude” and “uptight” (women) applied to many second-wave feminists (e.g., anti-pornography feminists).Marcuse’s intuition of the increased role of sexuality in advanced industrialism was thereafter increasingly confirmed by a pragmatic alliance between neo-liberalism and the commodification of sexuality.

The 1990s saw the ever-growing sexualization of the media, with raunchiness emerging in the overlapping interfaces of music, TV, video and advertising. By the close of the century, figures like Germaine Greer were talking critically of sex-positive feminism, whereby acknowledging one’s inner “slut” (in a commodified context) was seen as an ultimate goal.

Levy claims that the enjoyment of raunch, or “kitschy, slutty stereotypes of female sexuality,” has existed through the ages, but it was once a phenomenon that existed primarily in the male sphere and has since become mainstream and highly visible.[9] Raunch culture has penetrated “political life, the music industry, art, fashion, and taste.”

Citing examples ranging from the fad of Playboy Bunny merchandise for women to the moral panic of rainbow parties, Levy argues that American mass culture has framed the game so perversely that young women now strive to be the “hottest” and “sexiest” girl they know rather than the most accomplished. Despite the fact that raunch culture is focused on the sex appeal of women, it is solely image-based: “It’s about inauthenticity and the idea that women should be constantly exploding in little bursts of exhibitionism. It’s an idea that female sexuality should be about performance and not about pleasure.” Levy argues that in a raunch culture, many women engage in performances of sexuality that are not expressions of their individual sexuality, but are designed for the control of the male observer(s) – or appear as though they are trying to be pleasurable sex objects. Levy describes “hotness” as the degree to which someone is trying to be sexually attractive, regardless of how conventionally attractive they actually are.

Further, Levy theorizes that many women internalize the objectifying male gaze that permeates a raunch culture, leading them to participate in self-objectification quite willingly, falsely believing that it is a form of female empowerment and sexual liberation. Despite accounts of numerous women stating that they feel empowered and liberated by aspects of raunch culture, according to Levy there is nothing to support the “conception of raunch culture as a path to liberation rather than oppression.” Others, such as Susan Brownmiller, a well-known American feminist, journalist, author, and activist, share this opinion.

Although raunch originated in the male domain, Levy claims that it “no longer makes sense to blame men.” Central to Levy’s analysis of raunch culture is the concept of “Female Chauvinist Pigs”: women who sexually objectify other women and themselves. According to Levy, there are two strategies a Female Chauvinist Pig (FCP) employs to “deal with her femaleness”. In the first strategy, an FCP distinguishes herself from women who she deems excessively feminine (“girly-girls”), while simultaneously objectifying such women (e.g., going to strip clubs, reading Playboy, and talking about porn stars). Women may employ this strategy as an attempt to attain the elevated status of the dominant group (cisgendered men) and overcome their oppression by acting like male chauvinists. In the second strategy, an FCP objectifies herself through her choice of apparel and expression of stereotypes of female sexuality. This strategy may also be employed as an attempt to gain status, through embodying what society portrays as the ideal object of male desire.

Levy criticizes what she refers to as “lipstick feminists” and “loophole women”. According to Levy, lipstick feminists believe, for example, that stripping is empowering for women and that putting on a show to attract men, for instance through makeup, clothing, or girl-on-girl physical contact, is not contrary to the goals and ideals of feminism. Levy disagrees with this view, criticizing such lipstick feminists as those involved in the CAKE organization, which provides sexually oriented entertainment for women. Levy quotes from the CAKE website: “The new sexual revolution is where sexual equality and feminism finally meet.”

On the other end of the spectrum, Levy takes issue with women who make their way in a man’s world by playing by men’s rules. Sometimes, she argues, these women even make their fame and fortune by objectifying other women; for example, Levy finds it interesting that the Playboy organization was run by a woman, Christie Hefner, Hugh Hefner’s daughter. Levy addresses women who succeed in male-dominated fields on their own merit, but shy away from feminism, saying: “But if you are the exception that proves the rule, and the rule is that women are inferior, you haven’t made any progress.”

Levy proposes the following as a solution: “Ending raunch culture will require citizens to scrutinise the way they regard gender. Objectification is rooted in disrespect, condescending views of the opposite gender, and power struggles. When men realise that they have the capability to fundamentally respect women, and women realise that they have the power to present themselves as empowered, fully capable people, raunch culture may moan its last and final faked orgasm.”

Critics have particularly emphasized opinions that proponents of raunch culture conflate the idea of sexual liberation with the exploitation of women as commercialised objects. Through what is seen as bogus emphasis on a creed of ’empowerment’ and choice, raunch culture’s hypersexuality is internalised as a new public gender regime by a generation of women seen as colluding willingly with the male agenda—producing a sort of ‘do-me feminism’ as a mere recuperation of the traditional male sexual imagination.

Raunch culture is thus considered by postfeminists as a shift to a new and ‘higher’ form of exploitation by way of the internalization of the male gaze—facilitating the making of sex into a money-spinner and people into objects of consumption as part of the wider process of commodification of late modernity.

Levy’s argument that numerous women falsely believe that they are empowered by raunch culture because they internalize patriarchal thought is based in the Marxist concept of false consciousness. Several feminist authors have criticized feminist attributions of false consciousness, including Liz Stanley and Sue Wise in their book Breaking Out: Feminist Consciousness and Feminist Research: “The idea of ‘false’ and ‘true’ consciousness, with ‘true consciousness’ being what revolutionaries have, is offensively patronizing. It denies the validity of people’s own interpretations and understandings.”

I do not know very much about Che to form an opinion of him.
I strongly disagree with the idea that, what has come to be labelled the Black militant, was all about taking up arms to randomly kill people, the majority of that strand was about African Americans exercising their constitutional right to protect their homes and families when attacked. Malcolm X repeatedly stated this. It was also about independence, achieving progression through a self sufficient community, not singing we shall overcome and peacefully asking for White Americans to change their minds. Malcolm believed there could be brotherhood and sisterhood between all peoples, but was against relying on that for a quality of life. I do not believe such an ideology is wrong in the same way I do not believe Black academics, intellectuals and writers, like, Bell Hooks are inferior or “nothing” compared to Black dance culture.

King Kat , eat my dust…Jimmy page was a child pródigy and cant touch jazz or samba…my sons recently released record has a cut with tower of power influences, with black saxaphone , saturdanight live sax player for decades, master , alex foster ripping a monster solo and incredible horn arrangements..Tânia Maria son , worked as an agent for me to set up shows for a minute, you have absolutly no idea the high leval Brazilian musicians ive played with , the concert stages ive mounted with them , the festivals , I just did Brazilian Fest at Cornelia st cafe in new york….

If you are like Abagond, as he admitted, he doesnt have much affinity for jazz or Brazilian passistas…therefor , you obviously wouldnt know the depth and recognition of some of the great artists ive worked with , like Brazilian singer , Elza Soares, who is one if the greatest artists of all time

All due respect to Bernie, and I do mean respect, me and the killer elite musicians I have worked with are hardly intimidated to go on the stage opisite him

Youtube is new, most of the vídeos I put up are recent, they dont show my past, if you saw the Lonnie smith video and dissmiss him , you are full of it…if you go into my youtube channal , you see performes of all shapes and sizes and colors

Sam , your problem is you think its just jazz…I argue with jazz people and jazz fórums about these concepts , they are as dense as you…yes you dont know these concepts , that are in afro Brazilian concepts , afro Cuban concepts, all the afro diasporic concepts…yet , you want to pass judgement on me as a racist for actualy having knowledge in a visceral way of some of these idioms and knowledge of the origins…or being able to point out the harmlessness of these dances for children, they are shown on afternoon TV shows doing these dances

Im not surprised Monroe agrees with your theories of dipulated female genitals ,since the bikinis are so small on my beach , they have to dipulate or their hair will stick out…your notion of implying pubescent boys is sick and perverse, and you set yourself up as some judge of what is correct behaviour about sex attitudes? I wouldnt let you near my son with those notions, or a daughter if I had one

The problem with you and Monroe is , you need to take your beleifs about what women are supposed to be like,and what is correct behaviour in men and women and stick with people who think like you…and stay the Hades away from the women and men who think like I do , stay the Hades away from bikinid women in Brazil with their dipulated genital areas , with your tired moral pious self riotous holiar than though crud

What is ridiculous is people here think Im lording over black people about afro diasporic culture , há ha, I learned these cultures from black people, Im really defending black artists against ignorant people , and a small amount of people , who mostly arnt black American , or afro descendant on this blog, and the people in cyber blipdom land here , who claim to be afro descendant , claim ,like Abagond , to not have interest..so , this small amount of people on here , are individualy not knowledgable of these cultures .yet want to castigaste me , who has devoted my life to learning and performing these cultures

Monroe brings in another white women libber húng. Up on sexual objectification…like gale Dines, yet denies she isnt wraping herself up in these banshee white uptight white hens cackling about their own confused sexuality

This boggles

Monroe , I carefully distinguished the exact attitudes in the black militant movement in the sixties Im at odds with , and said I supported other parts

Kiwi here , is the gift who keeps giving…he demonstrates the perfect example of what people are doing here

He takes a phrase I said in a conversation I had with Matari, and seperates it and tries to make it seem that is my position, when in actuality, in context , I deferred to Matari…

.this kind if stink is why Matari left and we got Jefe and Kiwi , and their logic in place if Matari .

..this is why many interracial couples who used to participate left…the mind boggling drek dishes out

Throw money at? What in gods name are you talking about ? I am a profesional musician and producor, I get paid to perform , and I invest in priductions and recordings and videos

You and King Kat can Google “andrew scott potter cd ” and see page after page of credibility, listening to anomonous cowards sitting behind computor screens who are too chicken to pull out their credibility or dont have any

You are creepy, Kiwi, you are the kind of person who passes judgement on any step a person takes , injecting your own petty shallow insecure judgements

What is next? Observing my bathroom habits and interjecting some petty shallow observation? Suk on a lemon…get laid…get a life ….grow up

Sharina is one of the more advanced people here about sexual attitudes, if she is truly offended me complementing her figure, Ill defer to her , not you

“No , I dont lord all over black people and know better than black people, I learned it from black people…you didnt…Im addressing you as an individual who happens to be black”

This right here is what makes you seem like such an arrogant, condescending racist prick. You, a White man, are setting yourself up as a judge of who is Black and who is not. Just because of what? Because you know more about jazz drumming?

Just can’t help myself…
b.r, says:
with all the respect i have for bernie warrell, do you honestly think he could get on a bandstand with guys playing mccoy tyner music?

From Jazz Album Review:

Far from the “sweet home” brand of the great Southern state, Worrell’s “Alabama” is a reading of the John Coltrane song that first appeared on the legendary sax man’s 1963 recording, Live At Birdland. The ominous, rumbling bass sounds created by pianist McCoy Tyner and bassist Jimmy Garrison on the original recording are recreated here, as if one were walking through a dark, misty wood, spooked by every crackling twig and fearful of finding Billie Holiday’s “Strange Fruit” hanging from moss covered trees. There is some peace midway through the tune but, then, the ominous sounds return.

The problem with you and Monroe is , you need to take your beleifs about what women are supposed to be like,and what is correct behaviour in men and women and stick with people who think like you…and stay the Hades away from the women and men who think like I do , stay the Hades away from bikinid women in Brazil with their dipulated genital areas , with your tired moral pious self riotous holiar than though crud

BR, who are the people on this blog who think like you?

What does it mean if they do not agree with you?

Have you either here or another blog respectfully agreed to disagree with another commenter?

For me, I think its like this, I wouldnt appreciate someone looking down their nose at me or judging me because of a healthy interest in sex/the opposite sex. But I wouldnt go round talking about my likes or dislikes unless I was in like minded company and probably not even then lol – my Other half is convinced that when us men get together there is a lot of bragging going on and for others there is but i have always been a listener than a talker/bragger.

On the porn thread which is where some of this has come from, I think that B.R thought that the discussion was going to be broader than it turned out to be. While im sure that this blog gets a fair bit of traffic I dont see many ‘different’ people posting on here . I dont know how long B.R had been posting on here but he did not seem to have got the ‘measure’ of the frequent posters before talking so explicitly about his own sex life. When you put your stuff out there for all to see it will invite judgement. Some people are ok with this but most of us will not put up something on a public forum that could come back to haunt us later.

I just cannot believe that this entire thing that has come about over BR judging Black people giving their individual throughts on their representations and being attacked by him over what we can and cannot say as Black people about our children, has ended up being flipped to us apparently trying to police the Black people he happens to know. For crying out loud I’ve never said a thing about them or what they should say or do, I’ve simply said Black people, women, all people should be allowed to speak without him policing just because he thinks he’s the world’s and all its minorities and cultures’ gatekeeper.

Look, I really don’t think you’re all there, you’re constantly making sweeping generalizations about people’s views, usually over their race, s-x, nationality even when they’ve never mentioned their views, you diagnose the root of their views as being a byproduct of a character illness.

I never said I’m against pubes being shaved, I posted a narrative that female commodified hypers-xuality to suit the male gaze has become a faux empowerment movement which applies to all minority groups internalising degrading imagery and falsely believing it’s impowering because it’s rewarded with profit by those who get off on their exploitation, because their given reward for nothing else, instead they’re attacked for it. Hint, hint, man. Performace based, not pleasure based.

I don’t mean to be rude, but as you’ve stated, you’re an old man, you’re probably some old White guy like Archie Bunker or something who’s no longer all there. Screaming into the keypad of his computer as his lights dim away with nothing much left but his ego. You’re completely unable to compute points and respond, you’re continually having a conversation about points that are never there, perhaps people who don’t exist, maybe it’s all getting mixed up. It’s like trying to talk to someone who’s bipolar or schizophrenic. I’m now bored of this, it’s pointless, it’s as if you’re not about to understand English, communicating with you is not possible for anyone with you, unless they share the exact same views. I’m surprised you dislike communism because you certainly demand a communist regime of thought.

Nevermind man, just forget about it. As I’ve said let’s just ignore eachother on the blog, I’m not a c00n or a b3dw3nch type of woman of colour with low self esteem or in poverty so that I need you like I’m going to have to assume is the situation in your life with these Black chicks, even mothers who would allow you around their daughters, where you’re going to be able to patronise me and reduce to a thing and have me thank-you for it. I find your commentary extremely racist, misogynistic and condescending toward people, I think you go as far as to bully people on here from the posts I’ve seen in the past.

Since we just do not click at all, the best thing to do is to scroll past posts in future. No hard feelings. Wish you the best. By the way Miles Davis hated Louis Armstrong, perhaps he, the innovator of Jazz, the man who made the masterpiece “B!tches brew” and “Blue in Green,” the Black male Jazz innovator who knew more and culivated Jazz more than you ever will, is a little reality check that Westernized Blacks didn’t decide to stomp out Louis who was celebrated until Jazz fell out of favor with the young, but because that next generation just got tired of twerkin and smilin’ from ear to ear for you. Mmmkay

To be honest, it wasn’t even about how explicit the posts were, it was an another example of him attacking people because he didn’t like their views. Abagond put up a post on porn, a few women came in and said they didn’t like it and shared their views on it s-x becoming a product devoid of s-xuality, not judging people, just participating in the thread, but because their views were contrary to his own, he began attacking them and telling them they’re Westernised White women. Even Sam got it for stating his personal views. No one attacked BR, he, as usual goes after and begins psychologising people who are just participating on the blog just because their views are different. As he said “we’ll I’ve got an opinion about your opinion, trying to prompt people to, as he said “join in and ridicule” them. And then when they repeatedly try to clarify it’s just their view, and defend themselves, he beings shouting that they’re attacking him with judgement, while insinuating that they’re not authentic women because they don’t fall in line with the kind of woman (minority) he wants them to be. It’s like clockwork.

Side note: those posts have proven my point, he speaks about those Brazilian women like prostitutes. There’s no two ways about it, it’s all there to see.

Yup. People need to keep in mind that this site is a resource for decolonization and empowerment for the vast majority of people of color who don’t get to learn about these subjects (about ourselves and why our lives are the way they are) because university and even community college now are too expensive.