For the Motion – Nadia S. Mohammad – “Muslim women should be able to marry non-Muslim men”

When Huma Abedin, aide to Hilary Clinton, married Anthony Weiner, New York Congressman, it sent tongues wagging in the Muslim community. She did the unthinkable, the ultimate taboo for a good Muslim girl from a good Muslim family – she married a Jew… and he did not convert. O-M-G. The question that makes even the most open-minded Imams squirm was revived – Can a Muslim woman marry a non-Muslim man? The answer in all the major schools of thought has traditionally been a resounding NO. Absolutely, not. Not ever. Haraam, sister.

The response only begs the next question, but why? It is not prohibited in the Qur’an. Few modern scholars feel comfortable forbidding it for that reason. Yet, few are actually willing to articulate this in an official forum. Dr. Abou El Fadl is an example of a scholar who has openly and candidly addressed the issue of Muslim women marrying “men of the Book.” In his response he explains his dislike of the issue and his tendency to avoid answering the question. He describes the traditional thought and then goes on to mention that he, personally, finds the evidence regarding the prohibition to be weak and does not feel comfortable telling a woman she cannot marry a kitabiyya [People of the Book.]

I am not a scholar, but Dr. Fadl’s response echoes the sentiments I have heard from other scholars as well. As such, the bases for this opinion are two ayats [Qu’ran verses], the opinions of scholars I have questioned, and my own research. This opinion does not apply to marriages where one converts to another’s faith. Additionally, for the purposes of this discussion I recognize that we live in a patriarchal society and I am not contesting the traditional roles ascribed to men and women as per our cultural patriarchy.

What God Says: Qur’anic Law

The Qur’an addresses marriage to non-Muslims in two instances :

1. “And do not marry polytheistic women until they believe. And a believing slave woman is better than a polytheist, even though she might please you. And do not marry polytheistic men [to your women] until they believe. And a believing slave is better than a polytheist, even though he might please you.” [Qur’an 2:221]

2. “And [lawful in marriage are] chaste women from among the believers and chaste women from among those who were given the Scripture before you, when you have given them their due compensation, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse or taking [secret] lovers.” [Qur’an 5:5]

There are several absolute truths we can establish from these two ayats. The first is that a differentiation is made between non-Muslim “People of the Book” (those of the Judeo-Christian faith) and non-Muslim polytheists. This distinction determines that both men and women are not permitted to marry anyone who associates another god with God. That is pretty straightforward and not to be contested. The next point is that men are permitted to marry chaste Muslim, Jewish or Christian women when certain duties are upheld. We generally accept this at face value as our right to marry. We also accept from this that though Muslim women are not directly addressed, if Muslim men are given permission to marry Muslim women then naturally, Muslim women can marry Muslim men. The Qur’an does not provide further guidance on whether Muslim women can marry men “of the Book.”

The Issue

This leads us to the issue at hand – can we assume that the reverse is true for Muslim women marrying Judeo-Christian men?
• If not, can we forbid Muslim women from marrying a Christian or Jewish man?
• If yes, what does that mean in our patriarchal structure?

What People Say: Traditional Thought

Traditionally, the answer has been no, the reverse situation cannot be assumed for Muslim women. The argument is that if men are expressly given permission to marry women of the Book then women must also be given express permission in order to do the same. All major schools of thought accept this ruling. Many provide justifications as to why this traditional view has been upheld. The justification for this view fall primarily along these lines: 1) preservation of the Ummah [Muslim Community], 2) the father establishes religion for his children, 3) loss of certain rights as a Muslim woman, 4) implications on family law.

1) Preservation of the Ummah Since we live in a patriarchal system there is a need to maintain a certain order under that system. The family lineage is passed through the father so if Muslim women marry outside the Muslim community this would, somehow, impede the growth of the Ummah as a whole.

2) Religion stems from the father

Children are most often recognized by their father’s name, culture, traditions, customs, beliefs, etc. In most customs, a woman marries into a family, not the other way around. In many instances the woman will even move into the husband’s family home. In such scenarios, not only is the father’s beliefs and legacy passed on in a symbolic sense, the father’s family and culture also exert a great influence over the children. This view that religion stems from the father is also used to support the notion that Muslim men may marry a kitabiyya, while Muslim women cannot.

3) Loss of rights

Islam ensures certain rights to women, which in an interfaith marriage cannot be guaranteed because the husband is under no obligation to ensure these rights are protected. This includes, but is not limited to, the right to freely practice her faith, the right to a mehr , the right to keep her name after marriage, the right to retain her earnings, the right to have her husband provide for her and their children, etc. Again, this is not thought to be an issue for Muslim men marrying outside of the faith because, the patriarchal household is accepted as the norm. Thus, as part of his duties, a Muslim husband is expected to provide for his family, uphold the rights of his wife and not prevent her from practicing her faith. He is also prohibited from forcing his wife to be Muslim. The fear, however, is that a non-Muslim husband heading a household would not be obliged to do the same, placing the woman at a disadvantage.

4) Implications on family law

Islamic law provides guidance regarding various topics within family law. This is of particular significance in regards to interfaith marriages as it includes matters of divorce, child custody, and inheritance. A concern for some scholars is that if Muslim women marry outside the faith, not only would they lose their God-given rights, but also, Islamic family law would not be able to address the issues that may arise.

Come On, Really…?

The notion that the Ummah is somehow preserved through the offspring of Muslim men is culturally archaic. The spread of Islam has been through its message, and its growth is maintained through the belief of its followers. A man’s family name, traditions and faith are passed to his children only in a symbolic sense. Their decision to follow or not follow his ways stem from a number of factors, and is ultimately governed by their personal choice. There are further inconsistencies in the reasoning given by those who purport this rule in light of patriarchal tradition. If we maintain that men are the head of households and carry on family legacy, then we also support the notion that women are the primary caretakers and nurturers. Thus, religion and culture are more likely to be passed through the mother. This is especially true of the common nuclear family in America, where the children are solely under the care and supervision of the mother, not the father’s extended family. It simply does not make sense that a practicing Muslim mother would not raise her children as Muslims. It makes even less sense that a non-Muslim mother could be expected to raise her children as Muslim.

The aforementioned justifications speak to an Islamically ideal situation – a marriage between a Muslim man and Muslim woman where both care for and respect each other and live in wedded bliss for the sake of Allah in a Muslim majority country with his upstanding Muslim family. It assumes that by marrying a kitabiyya a Muslim woman is forgoing this wedded bliss. It also assumes that if she marries a Muslim man she will be in an Islamically ideal situation. Both assumptions are just not realistic.

If a Muslim woman finds a practicing man of God who respects her better than the Muslim men around her and with whom she connects with better as well, why should anyone stop her from marrying him? Even if we are to presume that all the single available Muslim men of America are Islamically ideal men and a Muslim woman would be crazy to reject all these potential Muslim suitors – if she chooses to marry a kitabiyya, she does not lose any wifely rights in this country, at least. The beauty of Islam is that it guaranteed a minimum standard for women at a time when there was no standard. We are fortunate enough to live in a society where these basic rights and more are upheld by law.

The concern that a shift in traditional thought will have implications in Islamic law is understandable, but should not be considered a threat to our Islamic traditions. Islamic law is not divine and it is not set in stone. It is a man-made interpretation of divine doctrine and tradition. It is a living body of law and should be treated as such. Implying that the fear of readdressing Islamic family law is enough to forbid all Muslim women from marrying outside the faith is just lazy. A body of law requires constant thought and analysis in order to develop. There are many Islamic scholars who recognize the need for development in Islamic legal theory, and are uncomfortable upholding traditions that are not prescribed in the Qur’an, yet few are willing to voice that opinion. When it comes to the rights of women we need to remember that Islam provided a floor, not a ceiling, and we must be careful of twisting something into haraam that is not expressly prohibited.

Soooo…

Ideally, most of us want and expect to marry a Muslim. It simplifies a lot of complications in our minds regarding marriage and family. But the reality is that in our society we have an increased chance of meeting and marrying a non-Muslim. Huma’s choice may have made the news. But men do it all the time. We accept their decision, as it is their choice, their right. We don’t analyze all the possible outcomes it may or may not have on the future of his children and the Ummah. So why are we prohibiting women from observing the same right when it is not prohibited in the Qur’an? And why are we prohibiting it with outdated justifications?

At most, the traditional justifications provide evidence that marrying kitabiyya is discouraged, not that it is forbidden. The choice is left to the believer.

Renowned scholar Tariq Ramadan said it best. When asked how he would react if one of his children married a non-Muslim, he replied:

“I would naturally prefer someone to share the principles of being a Muslim. But it’s their choice. Look, by then, I will have done what I have had to do [as a father]. I have transmitted my principles to them. So I say to them, know who you are and your values. When you know this, then you are free. “

629 thoughts on ““Muslim women should be able to marry non-Muslim men”: The Goatmilk Debates”

Why you don’t like this blog anymore? Because you don’t agree with everything written here? Life is full of things you don’t always agree with. You don’t get to control everything. Life is full of agreeing to disagree. That makes you an adult.

Its all fine and dandy when your sparking controversy by just wagging your tongues and debating this sort of stuff online..but has anyone actully thought about it practically?Actually put two people that have been brought up and schooled by two extremely different beliefs in amarital reltionship?`Cus its easy to talk but its hell to live with.Ever considered how messed up the family can be if they have two different mutually exclusive beliefs?I know for a fact it has a severe psychological effect on the children..that just being the starters.The fights with the spouse and emergence from the comfort zone is a recipe for disaster.This im saying from a factual, practical,literal point of view…However if neither of the two in the couple are not close to their beliefs and far away from their religion then i can imagine them slogging on in life the way everyone else is.Like this couple.
All of the above is from an open minded non-religious point of view by the way.

Then why don’t you agree a Muslim man who is not rich or not professional but his virtues are good? And why don’t yo agree to marry a Muslim man who is having another wife but can love and can financially and physically handle both of you whose virtues are good? First of all why don’t you go back to your country where you came from and develop there and invest there to make your own country better so that your people don’t have to come to these racist whites countries? Why don’t you go and help the poor nations to build their economies? Why don’t criticize the racism that’s there in most of the whites, I am living in America with my family from India only and I try my best to develop and invest in my own country so that the other relatives can live better in India itself. And many Indians even Hindus do it they open companies in India train the new educated people in IT and give them Jobs, these Americans are going there to accomplish their tasks. Its win-win situation. You don’t do all the above because you have lust, lust for a white man with white skin, suite coat and tie, you want a rich man who looks rich but he is poor from inside. Most of the Middle Eastern (Muslim in particular) women are more fascinated with western culture I don’t know why, that’s the shit of the cultures. Western people are racists, morons they used their intelligence and technology to ruin other societies and countries for decades and still doing it from behind. The best thing is to go back to your country and bring change in their lives, which I am doing now so that the next generations don’t have to come to these Westerners again. Thats what you can give to Islam and the human kind. Good luck.

quran doesn`t allow muslim women marrying a non-muslim women, if allah swt allowed this, he would have clearly mentioned it like in other verses where he addresses as “believing men and beileving women” but in this case of maarying from people of the book, the verse only talks about men.

this point of view may be shocking and unusual, but take a moment and see this picture, we are muslimsisters practicing and living in western countries, I personally live in australia all the men we meet are usually professional people we work with and they are non muslim but good christians, we do not get younger and in our archaic society they won’t even consider us i mean the muslim men who may be interested in us to get a residency and a better life but if we are over 35 we are dead to them. so what do you want us to do die bachelor? I have met muslim people who are against even when the man convert with good faith to islam they say “not good enough” so i guess we keep looking for the muslim de souche whose muslim for generations? come on Abdulla we all wish we have met the white sheep but sometimes those are not available so give me a solution for God sake.
a muslim woman living in christian land!

Magda, I think women like us, end up knowing more about our Creator and the reality of His presence. Good luck, I have been in the same situation and ended up marrying someone who used to be a good christian. He’s become muslim after getting to know me and my realistic beliefs. All I know is that be strong in ur faith and be smart. Don’t be foolish by never getting married bc u want to marry a ‘muslim born’ man who may take his faith for granted!

I don’t think it’s a wise idea to marry a non Muslim man just because it seems that he is not a mushrik/polytheist. Consider the following verse from Surah An-Nur

The adulterer marries not but an adulteress or a Mushrikah and the adulteress none marries her except an adulterer or a Muskrik [and that means that the man who agrees to marry (have a sexual relation with) a Mushrikah (female polytheist, pagan or idolatress) or a prostitute, then surely he is either an adulterer, or a Mushrik (polytheist, pagan or idolater, etc.) And the woman who agrees to marry (have a sexual relation with) a Mushrik (polytheist, pagan or idolater) or an adulterer, then she is either a prostitute or a Mushrikah (female polytheist, pagan, or idolatress, etc.)]. Such a thing is forbidden to the believers (of Islamic Monotheism).24.3-

You would probably agree with me that most non Muslim men in the west including Australia (where I live :) ) commit adultery before marriage. If you meet a Christian man with some monotheistic beliefs then you should get your male relatives to give him dawah and hopefully he will accept Islam.

A marriage between a Muslim woman and a non-Muslim man is not recognized in Islam. Even those who don’t believe in hadith have to admit that there isn’t a single shred of evidence of the Prophet or the Companions ever having allowed such a thing in the first generation nor their successors having allowed it in the subsequent centuries. You can go ask non-Muslim historians in Western universities if you wish as well.

Even if you did a nikah, it is not valid, and everytime you had relations with your husband would count as zina and your children would be considered born out of wedlock. People probably wouldn’t bother you in this world but if you want to add on a mountain of zina to your deeds on the Day of Judgment when you stand before God then that’s 100% up to you, you don’t need to ask other people about that.

If you think it’s hard to find a Muslim man, then I don’t know what to tell you. I’m a Muslim man and there are a ton of us who are looking for spouses in Australia and other Western countries. You would not be picking a non-Muslim husband as a last resort, you would purposely be ignoring Muslim men in favor of non-Muslim men which makes the situation worse. Try those online matrimonial sites, I found someone through there (who is around your age range). Halfourdeen.com is a good one.

There’s nothing wrong with marrying a convert. I know several sisters who married men who converted to Islam before the nikah, and some of these men turned out to be quite pious and practicing (in some cases to the wives’ chagrin).

But dating for anyone of either sex and engaging in premarital sex is also a sin so starting off a relationship on a sin probably doesn’t bode well as an omen for the rest of it. If you’re determined to not marry existing Muslim men who surround you for your own personal reasons (because we all know they exist in Australia) then your only bet is to start meeting non-Muslim men, but not starting a sexual relationship, and informing them that you will only marry a Muslim (that they have to convert)

” I have met muslim people who are against even when the man convert with good faith to islam they say “not good enough …”

Yes, this is really arrogant, ignorant and often racist. Similar happened to me, I am a converted muslima. The arab parents of my not-any-longer-future husband deny, that there is such a thing as “conversion” in islam, and they claim that making Shahāda does not qualify you to be muslim, they think they’re superior because they are born muslims. The joke is, that those people are even not practising islam. They’re not doing Salat, they NEVER do Zakat (but have money to buy all useless stuff), they are very self-absorbed and only go occasionally to jumu’ah prayer, to chitchat and to be seen and noticed by people. They interpret and twist quran verses to their liking. His father also slanders people that are doing Zakat, because he thinks it’s stupid. No compassion for the suffering at all, no nothing. He jokes, when he sees his youngest son doing salat. But oh, let me be frank: They’re doing Ramadan, and think everything is ok then, that’s enough to go to jannah. Don’t let yourself judge by people who are not even muslims themselves.

Thank you!! I have been married arranged and quickly to two muslim men, difft times of course, both have had abusive qualities and I have the wonderful parents, family and friends who helped me out of the situation..now that i’m older, its ridiculous that we make up forbidden rules that are not from the word of Allah, the Quran!! People who claim they know and call this blog stupid are stupid themselves, they dont know the world, they havent gotten close to Allah and his creations..sad if we can’t be better than other people in this world..if someone is judgemental, it makes them a worse muslim than someone who is God loving who may be Christian and Jew because they also believe in the same Allah and chose to believe.

The Holy Prophet was busy marrying a lot of different types of women. He was sanctioning many different types of marriages for himself. So, I’d say that there is permission for many types of marriages.

First off, with the whole alcohol issue, you’re referring to the abrogated verses. The first few ayahs addressing alcohol have been nullified due to the latter ayahs completely prohibiting alcohol. It’s the whole process of abrogation or mansukh in Arabic. So those that argue for alcohol are completely wrong.

This article has a point because prohibiting women to marry men of the book is something that has not specifically been prohibited in the Qur’an and not addressed in the Sunna. Prohibiting something which is not haram is another type of sin.

And something you should definitely know is that the Qur’an is the authorative and divine source which everything else is ‘based’ on…not whatever you seem to be thinking. The Qur’an is the main and final source of Islam and if anything contradicts it then it should be considered null and void.

I have than liver from unknow cause I was not drink alcohol when young. When I get bad cought the doctor write note for alcohol base cought medine not alcohol free cought medine which will do 10 time more harm to my liver than alcohol base one will do. Muslim doctor do the same also when writeing note for medince.

Based on my own reading of the Quran the people of the book are Mushrikun/polytheist.

They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allah (by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allah), and (they also took as their Lord) Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), while they (Jews and Christians) were commanded [in the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)) to worship none but One Ilah (God – Allah) La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He). Praise and glory be to Him, (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).” 9.31-Mushin Khan translations.

Also verses 5.72-73 seem to describe those who believe in the trinity are practicing shirk/polytheism.http://quran.com/5

Nadia , I don’t think verse 5.5 describes people of the book as being 100% monotheistic. The verse only states that we can eat their lawful food and marry chaste women. Can you think of other verses which describe the people of the book as not being polytheist?. The only verses I can think of are 2.62 and 5.69 but verse 3.85 states that

And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers.3.85.

Some scholars say that verses 2.62, 5.69 only apply only applies to people of the book who lived during prophets Musa(as) and Jesus(as) times but Allah(swt) knows best.

My final question is in verse 9.28 Allah(swt) has ordered Muslims to not allow Mushrikuns/polytheist to enter Al Masjid Al Haram/Mecca. So do you think people of the book should be allowed to enter Mecca since you believe that they are not polytheists.

And yet there is alcohol being distributed within the muslim world. If a union is entered into sincerely, and the union is between two different “God fearing” people whether jewish, muslim or christian, ….it’s like people putting up a stink cause someone who they normally otherwise either rejected or ignored is now defecting to another group.

I absolutely agree. The notion that your religion and spirituality somehow depends on the other person’s believes and actions, including your husband is utterly unislamic. Besides people of the book like Christians and Jews are NOT polytheists.

You might not like this, and it probably depends much on upbringing, but most women I know follow the lead of the men in their lives, unconsciously or not. I know lots of women who expect the men to make the decisions and don’t want to be bothered. And guess what; the real conflicts happen when they have to decide how to raise the kids.

Omar G, you might not like this, but there is not only one type of women. There are actually women that think and try to do the right thing, thinking of God/Allah who they believe in strongly and stand up for justice and their faiths and uphold their faith bc it is strong. Those women who just follow the lead of men are also at risk even with muslim men. Lets use our heads, there are many problems either way. It all depends, and I’m sure that is the most reasonable answer. Best thing to do is ask Allah and pray and try with the tools he gave us. He will come closer to us if we try every step to be closer to Him..and that includes raising children and a nonmuslim in showing them and guiding them the right way.

You miss the point totaly. I convert after 9-11 an I see that Islam needed to change some view. First one of our sister mother marry than america in Indonesia who treated her better than the local men. Her first hushand mistreated her badly when he die the america man convert to Islam to be able to marry her. I think Islam needed to look anew at some of our legal and religious belief. The america hight court at time hear cases on matter that the court decide year ago to see it than change is needed. I than 60 year old than I know less than some muslim childern about Islam, but I know the major points like you cannot breat up your wife. My father who was than christian man use to breat my mother on than regulate basely than at that time the police didnot arrest the man but stop him from further hitting the woman. At one point I was ready to kill my father durning one of his breating up my mother event. I never hit any women because of this.

It’s a conversation where posters and the author state their viewpoint whether or not you agree with it. That is called freedom of expression. All ideas and expressions. You’ve lived in a bubble for too, long.

So, should we call you bad names now and attack you?

Please don’t act like a child just because someone else doesn’t hold your same opinion. Adults aren’t so insecure that they can’t agree to disagree and respect someone else’s opinion.

Having lived in various Muslim countries for 18 year I have come away with a sad realisation that Islam is a not a success. I think that the absence of personal responsibility by responsibility being suborned to a suposedly superior being saps the very life spark that drives others. Locked into a mindset that prohibits discussion and free thought with the penalty of death is to put it mildly rather limiting to ever moving forward.

Abdullah,
Stop judging others, it is not your place nor is it “islamic.” Allah is the most merciful and sightful. There will be a time when we are all judged on our faith, intentions, and deeds. Share your knowledge, perception, and opinion without passing negative judgement. People should just seek true, heartfelt gauidance (prayer/salah) from Allah and he will show you the way.

There’s a lot of interfaith marriages between Muslim women and Hindu men in India. I’ve known various Indians from mixed religious families and they turned out fine.

Whether Qur’an forbids it or not, I ain’t letting anyone deny me the right to marry a Jewish, Hindu, Christian or atheist man if I want to. if Allah looks down at me for marrying a man of a different faith because this man loves and respects me, then that’s not the Allah I want to worship.

This the best comment ever. My girlfriend is muslim but does not practice it. Her dad is married to another woman and he says he wont allow me to marry this girl that i have been dating for four years. There is no reason for me to doubt her love for me.

Why should someone who is 69 years deny me my future happiness. I will never convert and if my girl wont marry me because of that, then i guess were just not meant to be.

Does it mean on Judgement day, God will choose one religion he sees right?

Um, Ali, I’m sorry, but from an atheist’s point of view (i.e., my view), you’re simply wrong. But you know what, I’ll let you love and live and learn they way you wish while you remain under your (delusion) view. Now, as for a women who identifies as Muslim, I also will allow her to live and love and learn in the way she wants to, which is to do so in the arms of her atheist lover. And the reason she believes this way is because he, at least, expresses and manifests and embodies that god-quality she seeks – absolute love and respect for her and for life and for others; something she has a hard time finding in certain people who call themselves Muslim.

You told us what the Koran and “god” have to say about Moslim women marrying non Muslim man.
( we knew that already)
But unfortunately “god” or “allah” simply doesn’ exist.These are human phantasies just as “appollo” “woodan” “amon re” or “ctulhu”.
I should like to know what you personnaly as an intellectual being think about this question.

It is not forbidden to marry nonmuslim men. You cannot find that in the Quran. It says men should not marry non believing women (idolators) and women should not marry nonbelievers because its better for them. Its true if someone doesnt believe in one God, the creator of all of us, we can sin and fall to be deceived. But the message from beginning of time has always been the same. If you say any nonmuslim is also a nonbeliever, you are definitely wrong and I actually feel sorry that your intellect hasnt been used as God has given to others. You have to read the quran in depth and the history behind why what happened. (For James) As far as JJ Rousseau, you should try reading the Quran and history and see how it would ever make sense for a man to know about the two rivers, one sweet and one salty that dont mix..or other examples in the Quran that is impossible for him to know and have that much knowledge. See if it makes sense that there is no human way possible for him to have known about the prophets that were revealed before his time and in aramaic or hebrew and not in arabic..and in the days where technology was not advanced..then u would be shocked and really accept that must be some sort of miracle or impossible. May you use your wisdom and brain as well to realize there is a power greater than you, that can save you at the times you will wish He did. May God bless you with the well rounded love and spirit in your life! As for those who think that its still haram, sorry to say I’ve just witnessed a couple of miracles and am now more stronger in faith than ever that its not haram as long as people believe and don’t associate other things or gods with One God and those that strive to be in God’s way, He is always with His creations..whether you believe it or not.

I would just like to say one thing…GOD is all about love and God made this entire universe and then he made humans….now are you trying to say all the muslims are goin to heaven….HUH…Im a christian..but my father is a muslim…And let me tell you..I say ISLAM is a JAIL…where once some one accepts it..their is no way out even if you want to…you are forced to believe or do what ever you dont want to…and im a CHRISTIAN…where you can only be a christian if you BELIEVE…we dont kill in the name of our GOD…for Kafir(sinners) God has made hell…so other then changing the whole meaning of GOD and doing what he has planned for the “so called kafir(sinners)” as you put it.as usual deciding for God…why dont yall shut your disgusing mouths and stop using tht horrible brains to find horrible ways to kill innocent ppl just to remove your frustrations….Im sorry to say…Islam mite be a religion but the muslims are nothing but murderers /vultures/horrible torturers and the famouse word…TERRORISTS….Youll can marry 4 times …why?? women are animals in ISLAM?? they have no respect?? …everyone has their human rights…GOD IS LOVE and if you fall in love with another human being regardless of their religion…God is present their….Everyone believes in GOD/ALLAH …..so just becoz one who does not believe in th prophets…God will hate them?? I say just look up the sky and pray to GOD…itz all about him..GOD almighty…last bust not the least…being a good human being in this generation is big thing it self…

exactly! i have been married to two muslim men through famliy and had my life ruined! never again. now i am with a man who dont hve no religion but strongly believes in god, and loves and respects me. thats most important to me. i have asked allah to lead me in d right path and only he nos what will happen. all i no is that i love this guy and my allah will guide me! i will not force myself to be unhappy. i believe everything happens for a reason and sumtimes u cant explain the reason but in time u will.

The Quran does not state that a woman cannot marry more than one husband. The Quran does not also state that a muslim woman is allowed to marry a muslim man. The Quran says that muslim woman may not marry unbelievers, so if Christian and Jews are unbelievers then why would God allow muslim men to marry them. Because God also says that muslim men may not marry unbelievers.

You are spreading lies. Its HIndu women who marry Muslims men but not the others.
Exception may happen but see the list. Bollywood stars, cricketers Muslims men from Amir Khan, Shaharukh Khan, Arbaz Khan, Sohail Khan, Irfan pathan, Azharuddin, Saif Ali khan all these Muslim men married Hindu women. When 100 Hindu women marry Muslim men, u will find 0.000001% Muslim woman marrying HIndu men. So, ur title also shows that u are an RSS terrorist group, a Muslim/Christian minority hater. You are lier. I am Indian too. In between I personally dont support any of these so called Muslim men to marry Hindu women.

Well said Azad bhai.Salams. I am asking the women who want to marry non muslim men the following things, make sense.

Then why don’t you agree a Muslim man who is not rich or not professional but his virtues are good? And why don’t yo agree to marry a Muslim man who is having another wife but can love and can financially and physically handle both of you whose virtues are good? First of all why don’t you go back to your country where you came from and develop there and invest there to make your own country better so that your people don’t have to come to these racist whites countries? Why don’t you go and help the poor nations to build their economies? Why don’t criticize the racism that’s there in most of the whites, I am living in America with my family from India only and I try my best to develop and invest in my own country so that the other relatives can live better in India itself. And many Indians even Hindus do it they open companies in India train the new educated people in IT and give them Jobs, these Americans are going there to accomplish their tasks. Its win-win situation. You don’t do all the above because you have lust, lust for a white man with white skin, suite coat and tie, you want a rich man who looks rich but he is poor from inside. Most of the Middle Eastern (Muslim in particular) women are more fascinated with western culture I don’t know why, that’s the shit of the cultures. Western people are racists, morons they used their intelligence and technology to ruin other societies and countries for decades and still doing it from behind. The best thing is to go back to your country and bring change in their lives, which I am doing now so that the next generations don’t have to come to these Westerners again. Thats what you can give to Islam and the human kind. Good luck.

I second! My best friend is Muslim, and I’m afraid she won’t marry for love, but rather for faith. I’m a non-believer (Atheist, with a few exceptions) and her brother would not be allowed to marry me. Not that I want to marry him, but I think that you should be allowed to marry whomever you want.

well unfortunately it is not always what you want or believe it is what GOD says. And look down on you he will for neglecting his word. and doing as you please. your faith is not that strong. and you do not believe very much.

i agree with you, i believe a person can marry who their heart desires. for e.g. you place a non muslim man and a muslim woman (or muslim man and non muslim woman) on an island…..by themselves….i bet love would conquer despite religion. also the whole “convert ” thing is another issue. lets say you convert from christianity to islam….are you now a hypocrite to christianity? all in all , love who you wish, marry who makes you happy, and never put “boundaries” before your heart. and those who disagree should move to a country where there are only ……………….

Yayyy!!! I have finally found the post I was looking for!! I’m married to a non Muslim. I was raised in a Pakistani Muslim home, had an arranged marriage, had two kids and then a divorce. I remarried ..fell in love with a non Muslim. If I could write a book!!! Anyways, Allah will NEVER EVER separate the human race over religion…HE CREATED love!!!!!! Please feel free to embrace me or bash me.. Zeanab1982@hotmail.com

Wajahat Ali here. This is simply a debate topic. Goatmilk doesn’t endorse one side over the other. This is not an “Islamic blog” or “anti-Islamic blog” or “Progressive Blog” or “Conservative blog.” So, perhaps people can simply relax and read debaters tackling a complex topic, yes? Yes…

so agreed with MahaMuslimah…what is the difference of following blindly something you are taught as a muslim and those we criticize for blindly following something? ridiculous. I believe its more impt to use our God given brains and hearts to realize we dont have answers and anything anyone does with God in their mind and heart and right intentions is not for anyone to question. Thats called being a believer.

I do think you are wrong. Any questioning of the Koran or Islam is seen as being anti islamic, it is the standard defence. There is the Koran and that is it, I am assured that the Koran states that the world is 6,000 years old, no discussion nor debate. The Christians had a similar problem a few hundred years ago but non belief or questioning does not carry the death penalty.

@ SIMON, actually, you are very wrong about the questioning of Islam and the “killing” in Islam. Allah himself TELLS us to question not only Islam, but all religions and beliefs around us. He tells us this because he knows that…

a) We will not find anything better than Islam (if we conduct our search correctly – which you clearly have not.) and,

b) We must be knowlegable of everything in our lives, even if its not our own religion. And,

c) Because of issues exactly like this one. How are we supposed to know the truth if we’ve been told our whole lives something that is false?! Am I supposed to abandon my love for a christian man because I never took the initiative of searching for my real rights?

And also, there is NO ruling whatsoever for a death penalty for questioning things! That is the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard. Please, please do your research before assuming things and putting out false and offensive comment.

I ask you only the following questions. Get answers for yourself don’t have to answer me ok.

Then why don’t you agree a Muslim man who is not rich or not professional but his virtues are good? And why don’t yo agree to marry a Muslim man who is having another wife but can love and can financially and physically handle both of you whose virtues are good? First of all why don’t you go back to your country where you came from and develop there and invest there to make your own country better so that your people don’t have to come to these racist whites countries? Why don’t you go and help the poor nations to build their economies? Why don’t criticize the racism that’s there in most of the whites, I am living in America with my family from India only and I try my best to develop and invest in my own country so that the other relatives can live better in India itself. And many Indians even Hindus do it they open companies in India train the new educated people in IT and give them Jobs, these Americans are going there to accomplish their tasks. Its win-win situation. You don’t do all the above because you have lust, lust for a white man with white skin, suite coat and tie, you want a rich man who looks rich but he is poor from inside. Most of the Middle Eastern (Muslim in particular) women are more fascinated with western culture I don’t know why, that’s the shit of the cultures. Western people are racists, morons they used their intelligence and technology to ruin other societies and countries for decades and still doing it from behind. The best thing is to go back to your country and bring change in their lives, which I am doing now so that the next generations don’t have to come to these Westerners again. Thats what you can give to Islam and the human kind. Good luck.

It might not be scientific but of all the families I know where the father is a non muslim and did not convert, the children in that family are usually outside of the fold of Islam and more prone to atheism.

The case is not so when the father is Muslim and the woman is not; its just the way it is – Nadia/Waj can “refudiate” all traditional way of thinking they want but these are just facts.

In his response to the question raised here, the eminent Muslim scholar, Sheikh Muhammad Al-Hanooti, member of the North American Fiqh Council, states:

“If Allah is the one who prohibits a Muslim woman from marrying a non-Muslim, then we as Muslims are supposed to believe it and to take it. As a matter of faith, you cannot become a Muslim unless you accept everything when it is ordained by Allah or carried out by his Messenger. The Qur’an says, “O Ye who believe! Put not yourselves forward before Allah and His Messenger…” (Al-Hujurat: )

If you ask about the benefits of not marrying a non-Muslim, we can count you many reasons. A man is the manager of his household. He will persecute his Muslim wife in many dos and don’ts. She can hardly guarantee that kind of operation. Moreover, marriage is an institution for elevating our levels of having a good Islamic life. Pleasing Allah is our number one goal. If a woman is married to a non-Muslim, maybe the only thing she will accomplish in her marital life is what is good for livestock.”

Shedding more light on the question, I’d like to cite the words of the eminent Muslim scholar, Sheik Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, in his well-known book, The Lawful and the Prohibited in Islam:

“It is haram for a Muslim woman to marry a non-Muslim man, regardless of whether he is of the People of the Book or not. We have already mentioned the saying of Allah, “…and do not marry (your girls) to idolaters until they believe…” (Al-Baqarah: 221)

“Persecute his wife”??? That makes me real excited to get married. How about love her?

How about the children choose what religion they want to be after learning about different religions. Not be made to be something whether they want to or not, under the threat of punishment or banishment. Where’s the love?

If you are made to be something you don’t want, then you will never really be it. You may fake the motions, but in your heart you aren’t really there.

What about what the women wants for her marriage? Doesn’t she get to be happy and not just have to endure?

omg dats so true.i am a muslim lady who had two arranged marriages with muslim men wich has made me suffer for a ling time. now i am going to marry a non muslim man who dont hve a religion bt strongly believes in god! and dats most important for me. dat i have sum1 who respect me repsects my religion and loves me.and i hve never been happier!!! how many muslim guys do u see doing that.

I believe the relevant passages regarding marriage cited during this discourse were primarily the word of Allah.

I hate to be a stickler here, but I’m inclined to think that Allah is going to have to be given precedence.

Moreover, most of the uneducated comments in here come from those that are either quoting others who INTERPRET the Quran or interpreting it themselves.

As long as a topic is left ambiguous, especially when left ambiguous by Allah himself, I’m seriously not going to take an affirmative position, especially an “absolute NO” position, largely because that’s not a justification I want to explain to Allah when it comes time for my reckoning. Seriously, what’s your response going to be? “Ah, well, this guy said it in his book/speech/khutba and I figured he’s a smart guy so I should just follow along.”

Draw the distinction between law and ideas; do not create/invent/interpret laws that weren’t expressly prescribed by Allah. Remember, you are judged for your own actions and words, and you probably don’t want to explain to our Maker why you suddenly thought you could edit Him.

Well unless you do. Then by all means, push forward brave one. Again, I’m not going to get flack for it later…

I totally agree, AK.
Besides, if you think about it: God didn’t expressly allow the use of airplanes in the Coran. Or cell phones.
Why should this be different?
Isn’t this more of a cultural idea than anything else?

Amazing,
I have lived most of my life in western countries and i do not know so many families with the father non muslim and the woman is muslim in fact i dont know any, so how did you get to such huge conclusion? how many families you know in this situation? what i know is a lot of muslim men married to non muslim women and living like they have nothing to do with religion or have the minimum, you know why, because we women we rule the house and when the husband is gone all day to work the women is not gonna say oh let me be honest and teach my son his father;s religion no if she doesnt push her own then he is lucky. so stop using this ugly word HARAM which brought us to so many crimes.
When I’m put in my grave I go there alone and not you Ehab or anybody else will go with me so can I have the right to decide what way to take; knowing fully anything i do i will have to answer for it tomorrow when i get to meet my Creator? i do not need a man to tell me what way to go then leave me hanging the day i have to answer Nekir? so give me a break and you guys take care of your families and ensure you’re the MAN and not that blond you grab at the fisrt bar when you land in western WORLD and get to be so proud of.

Yeah. An idolater is someone who doesn’t believe in the one god. Muslims, Jews and Christians all believe in the same god which is why jews and christians are referred to as “people of the book”. So technically, that statement from the Quran doesn’t say that women can’t marry People of the Book.

“And do not marry polytheistic women until they believe. And a believing slave woman is better than a polytheist, even though she might please you. And do not marry polytheistic men [to your women] until they believe. And a believing slave is better than a polytheist, even though he might please you.”

I think your interpretation is off. Polytheistic people believe in more than one God. For example, Hindus are polytheistic whereas Jewish, Christians and Muslims believe in one God – having a monotheistic belief system.

Therefore, I take this to mean “Do not marry someone who worships more than ONE God unless they come to believe that there is ONE God.” Thus, conforming to a basic belief in Islam – Tawheed, which refers to the divine uniqueness and oneness of Allah. There is no other God worthy of worship but Allah.

To become Muslim, you must pronounce with conviction:

Ash-hadu an la ilaha ill Allah, Ash-hadu an la ilaha ill Allah.

(English: I bear witness that there is no diety but Allah; And I bear witness that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah)

Again, reiterating you must believe in one God, not multiple.

I am a former Christian who is married to a Muslim man and in the process of converting to Islam. Not once has anyone in the Muslim community looked down on our marriage – most of the time people have issue with the cultural differences – I have always been accepted by my husband’s family and other Muslims.

Mohammed was referring to the pagan worshipers in his area who still worshiped the 360 gods in Arabia. He used to be a polytheist, too, and worship all the gods, including Allah at the Kabbah before he eliminated the other 359 gods. It’s still debateful if he allowed the worship of Allah’s two daughters though some say he allowed it.

What evidence do you have that Muhammad was a polythiest who worshipped 360 Gods? There is nowhere in the quran where God says to Muhammad that he was a polythiest who worshipped 360 Gods.

“He used to be a polytheist, too, and worship all the gods, including Allah at the Kabbah before he eliminated the other 359 gods”

Do you realize that “Allah” is the arabic word for God?

“It’s still debateful if he allowed the worship of Allah’s two daughters though some say he allowed it.” This has NEVER been a question of debate. Muhammad was a monothiest. The entire quran is monothiestic.

The holy, pure, perfect, and infallible Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) ALWAYS believed in ONE Almighty God! There is no God but Allah (SWT) and the holy, pure, perfect, and infallible Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) is the GREATEST Slave and Messenger of Allah (SWT)!

The holy, pure, perfect, and infallible Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) ONLY worshiped Allah (SWT) and believed in ONE God!

Allah (SWT) is the one Almighty, Supreme, Omnipotent, and PERFECT God! God is the greatest!

The holy, pure, perfect, and infallible Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) is the beloved of Allah (SWT) and was ALWAYS a monotheist who believed in one God!

Allah (SWT) has NO partners or equals. Allah (SWT) has NO children! Allah (SWT) has NO daughters, NO sons, and NO family!

“Allah’s Two Daughter ????????” , “He is Allah, the One and Only! Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him.” Surah Ikhlas (Holy Qur’an 112:1-4).
This is one of the most fundamental tenants of ISLAM.

I get that Jewish and Christian also believe in one God but aren’t we forgetting that they don’t believe in Allah as their God? we are Muslims and we worship Allah and Allah alone. that’s the first step to being a Muslim. There’s a reason that these three religions are three different religions right? regardless of whether they believe in one God or not. Jesus and Moses are our messengers.

1. In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
2. All the praises and thanks be to Allah, the Lord of the ‘Âlamîn (mankind, jinn and all that exists).
3. The Most Gracious, the Most Merciful
4. The Only Owner (and the Only Ruling Judge) of the Day of Recompense (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)
5. You (Alone) we worship, and You (Alone) we ask for help (for each and everything).
6. Guide us to the Straight Way.
7. The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians).

As it says in the first suraah of the Jewish and Christian are people who went against angered Allah and who went Astray.

I don’t have enough knowledge about my religion and I am the one to blame for it. I would never blame my religion or Allah for anything even if my life depends on it. There are many Muslims who don’t follow the religion the way we were told to follow through Qu’ran and through Prophet Muhammad. But it is not Islam’s fault but those people who decided to make their own definition of the religion. those people who had bad marriage from being married to a Muslim guy doesn’t make it is the religion’s fault but the men themselves.

I believe a true Muslim who follows the religion how it is suppose to be followed find life peaceful and looks forward to hereafter. they don’t hurt others and they don’t go against Allah either. Our prophet is the best example of it.

“The prophet’s life is almost documented and u can take him as a role model in every situation u go through in ur life…he was a father , a grandfather ,a leader , a war general ….u will see him playing with his grandchildren..kissing his daughter forehead, embracing his companions,romantic gentleman with his wife, crying when his son dies, smiling in people faces…
* everything makes sense, why are we in this life? where will we go? why do we suffer.?
*makes life easier..when u lose a loved one , u know u will c him in the afterlife..doing the right things is rewarding….and no body is free from responsibility…
*everything in modesty, we do not live as nuns , but sex is only in marriage…u can have beautiful things in life but u have to help the poor, etc
*the social and human concepts Islam carried were much ahead of time…equality ..brotherhood…respect…etiquette…no gossip nor lies nor prejudice…” < that's not my own word but i believe it gives a good example of how a Muslim should be. equality, brotherhood, respect, etiquette, go gossip nor lies nor prejudice.

And those who have things to complain about it is only because they don't know their religion well.

I got nothing against Non-Muslim as long as they respect me and my religion I will respect them and their religion and i stay strong to my own.

This is how i see it: if I marry a non-Muslim who doesn't convert, i will not be happy for going against the one who created me just to find some mere happiness in this world when we are only here temporarily and we'll have to go back to Allah and answer to him for everything. Even if he respects and loves me but since he doesn't share the same believe has me, there will be disagreement and arguments which will lead to drama and so much more.

after having kids what religion you going to tell your kids to follow? too much complication. isn't it better to just give your heart and soul to your God than give in to temptation to find some mere happiness that won't even least.

I’m sorry Lily, you must do more research in your beliefs and religion. We all have a responsibility in this world. #1) your first sentence, ‘arent we forgetting that they dont believe in Allah as their God’ what is that supposed to mean. Allah is arabic language for One God that created all of us, that if we believe in Him, that we worship Him and he didnt force us, he gave us free will, so that either we guide ourselves and are judged on the day of Judgement and we pass or we fail. You are born muslim but seems like you take it for granted. What about some christian who is worshipping the same Creator we worship and always ask Him for guidance and strives in the correct way more than us. You are judging they are wrong. Not every labeled and born christian believe the same way. Many many of them just believe in God and thats it. You probably have not met those kinds of people, there are many. They believe the same as us, pray to Him and try to do good for humanity. Who are you to judge when God is our only Judge. People make things complicated..people make divisions and Allah has explicitly said in the Quran not to make divisions, to follow the middle path and to realize there are spiritual people who believe the same as us muslims and they don’t consider themselves muslim until they do a lot of research. That takes time. Allah never forbid to marry a christian or jew, so don’t start spreading things that you hear until u read it front to back, doing research on arabic meaning. Its very simple, Islam, and its guidance for all mankind..not just someone born muslim, so don’t think that its that narrow where there are rules about which cult to follow..bc its not a cult. Did you ever think about Abraham. Quran says he is an example, he is a true believer, one that didnt make divisions, he just believed in God and worshipped him, leading a good life. He never used the word ‘muslim’ neither did Moses..bc Moses used Hebrew..so its not about one word…its everything the world can understand to describe this word, ‘muslim’.

Why are we even having this conversation?????? This is why it makes it so hard to stand up for a religion that has this kind of demented interpretations, which is unfortunate because I don’t think the religion was instituted with this kind of thinking. And, yeah, I am a practicing Catholic married to a MUslim. Guess what, my husband and the kids are rational, practicing Muslims.

u no what dats crap who ever u are!!! u only think men r important cus adam came first bt u forgetting widout eve u wudnt be there.we all have equal rights. not jus men. get overselves n get a life. muslim men think they can change d culture wenever they want bt they forgetting d true word of allah n d quran and our beloved prophet muhammed peace be apon him. because they are d biggest hypercrite ever!!!

People believing its not ‘permitted’ are very ignorant and havent learned the deeper meaning. I think God is trying to see which people are using what he created, WISDOM, or those with lack of intellect and rather rely on other people’s word..do research and learn ppl.

If we don’t discuss this the community will not evolve. If there is truth we must continually strive to find it. I’m not of the irrational type that has a problem with this but it’s good to discuss so that other people can learn from our viewpoints or maybe we can all come to some conclusions together.

And you’re absolutely right. There is no shortage of demented interpretations….which is why it’s nice to talk about these things and get rid of the false interpretations

Some anti-Islamic missionaries mention the verse “Do not take Christians and Jews as friends [wali]” in order to cast Muslims in a bad light.

(Siraj Wahhaj has a good explanation of this issue)

But of course we know that the word translated as “friends” doesn’t just mean “pal” or “person you are nice to”. And one of the most obvious counter-arguments is the fact that Muslim men are allowed to marry Jewish and Christian women. It would be silly to argue that Muslims aren’t allowed to be “buddies” with People of the Book if the Quran gives (qualified) permission to live with them intimately and raise children with them in the context of a family.

So what *does* that verse mean? Well, the word “wali” is more like protector or ally. So Muslims aren’t prohibited from being friendly with people of the book but ARE prohibited from putting themselves in a vulnerable position where they depend on them for protection.

What does this have to do with the current topic? Well, allahu alim but one could definitely argue that the husband IS supposed to be that kind of “wali” or protector for his wife.

“And do not marry polytheistic women until they believe. And a believing slave woman is better than a polytheist, even though she might please you. And do not marry polytheistic men [to your women] until they believe. And a believing slave is better than a polytheist, even though he might please you.” [Qur’an 2:221]

The ayah is very clear unless you want to provide an alternate translation. Your support or lack thereof of the argument is unclear. What do you want to say?? You are one of those people who have a hard time saying that its ok for a Muslim woman to marry a Jewish or Christian man. Brother its ok… relax ..

That’s really confusing then because quite a few Islamic countries paid billions for a Christian country (ies) to protect them whilst in a vulnerable position. Guess business doesn’t apply here, only love or friendship?

reading some comments (like the above) just goes to show the mental regression in our muslim community, exactly like that present in islamophobes/anti-muslim folks who respond illogically and incoherently on CNN.com or articles about islam.

one point was not addressed fully: all matters are considered permissible/halal until they are proven to be impermissible/haram. there is not enough textual or contextual evidence to support forbidding muslims from marrying non-muslims.

and it’s shocking to me that the allowance is not threatened for men, but it is for women.

one last thing i also wanted to mention. though i do not believe it is forbidden for women to marry nonmuslim men, from a sociological standpoint i DO believe it is a legitimate argument that much is passed on from the mother and that marrying a non-muslim (for the man or woman) might provide some difficulty. i dont mean faith is passed on, but religion (behaviors that allow for faith to flourish) and values and a sense of direction and guidance on cultural habits and priorities.

the profound effect of a mother on her child should be taken into consideration and discussed among the two deciding to get married, but not used as evidence for PROHIBITING such a marriage.

I’ve found that when a Muslim man marries a non Muslim women, while there is love involved, the man usually is looking for a backdoor escape and he is not real happy about having to live full time in an Islamic environment. Having the ability to move away legally is attractive. Also, these men tend to be more open minded and secure about the input of different ideas being introduced to their children. They want fresh input. They also want to be able to move away, too, if they feel the need. I gained this knowledge after many discussions with different friend’s husbands. If a man marries outside of his religion/culture, then before he married, he was looking for something different then what he was born into. And, he isn’t so concerned with his children being submerged in the same environment he grew up in. Not my ideas…….what I was told.

I agree with you wholeheartedly Dina. If it isn’t expressly forbidden in the quran than it isn’t haraam. Unfortunately we muslims are not given the ample opportunity to learn the arabic text to investigate for ourselves what the true meanings of the quran are. We should all do our best to dissolve ourselves of these bad translations/interpretations that are loaded with the interpretors beliefs….

Interesting debate. Even Jews argue that marrying non Jews has caused their “disappearance” in the US. It’s probably sad & true that some non Muslim men give Muslim women the respect they deserve and are more successful, come from more money than Muslim men in the US but the grass is not always greener on the other side. Non Muslim men have their own issues. I think the cultural, religious, core values difference between a non Muslim man and Muslim woman would lead to a divorce or would just not work out in the end. The Muslim community is not prepared for interfaith marriage between a muslim woman and non muslim man and no counseling exists for this partnership. Also, how would you raise your children in an interfaith marriage?

The children are raised the same way children have been raised successfully in an interfaith marriage around the world for thousands of years. Do you exist in a bubble? Of course there is counseling for this. Just not in your bubble. Why would this marriage end in a divorce? Any non Muslim man who takes on the “work” it takes to gain approval to marry a Muslim woman, is sensitive enough to make sure that the children are given all information needed about both cultures and religions. It’s just that in your bubble, you haven’t ventured out far enough to witness the success.

I don’t think you really have enough basis to know exactly whether or not a non muslim man really has that much of a difference.

The muslim community is ready for non muslim men/muslim women marriages. You aren’t ready for it because not being in total control scares you to death.

And, you make far too many assumptions about men you don’t know anything about. You are assuming that they operate like you. Controlling. So, you are assuming that they will raise their children in the same controlling method that you do except it will be in a Christian, Jewish or whatever different religion.

Again, any non muslim man who wants to marry a muslim man is a very open minded, sensitive minded and respectful person to other cultures and ideas. Just to get the permission and WANT to go through all the hassles it takes to marry a muslim women tells you that you have the best non muslim man there is to marry.

All people operate the same way on some level. If you have any experience with Muslims then you should know that the whole family and community is involved in the marriage for life. Open minded people are always changing their minds. It’s important to share core values from the start so it doesn’t lead to confusion in the future.

If you are a Muslim and believe in the Quran, than please understand the risk you are taking when you say something about Islam.

This goes for EVERYONE. Just because one of us thinks we know what Islam has to say about an issue (even if its a pretty simple issue like drinking or marrying non muslims). VERY FEW of us have the authority to comment on such things with our own words. Post a hadith or a reliable scholar’s commentary on a hadith if you have something to say.

If you are a non muslim looking to understand what Islam says, there are plenty of scholars and smart people (NONE of whom would waste their times on such uselessness as this website) who may be able to explain the wisdom behind certain things.

since when did it become a sin to critically think and analyze? the great thinkers of the 9th and 10th centuries, many of whom some wrongly cite as the only credible scholars in our discussions today, didn’t become a thinking people by feeling unworthy to approach the issues of their time. in fact, being born should make you grateful enough at the chance to experience Divinity, in effect showing your gratitude by putting effort, thought, heart, and true intention in searching for answers to our complex social problems. agonizing in seeking God’s acceptance instead of dismissing everything as a challenge too great.

so long as you and i have a heart beat, our brains should be working, too

There are only a few reasons why you want to stop muslim women from marrying non muslim men.

1. Marrying outside of the family, tribe, cultures, etc… means control of the money and control over family members is lost.

2. Any cultural advantages of keeping the marriage partner’s faiths the same is lost.

3. If you are worried about honor, it’s must more difficult to control your honor if the muslim woman family member is living outside of the family’s control.

4. You can’t control the input and type of knowledge and ideas that this type of marriage brings into the family.

5. You can’t use only your culture’s type of control on the non-muslim members family to control their actions or gain their cooperation.

6. Since the non muslim husband usually operates in a different legal system or set of rules, you can’t shame or bully him into doing what you want. You can try to bully the muslim wife, but she has the support of her non muslim husband and his family.

7. The fear that the non muslim husband will move the muslim wife far away from the Muslim family and you won’t see your grandchildren or have control or influence over them.

I think the main “reason” why the marriage laws in Islam are what they are is because that’s what the texts say. And in fact, the laws are pretty typical among Abrahamic religions. Orthodox Judaism doesn’t allow marriage with non-Jews at all because that’s what the Penteteuch says.

Catholic/Orthodox Christians technically don’t allow intermarriage either and the same goes with many PRotestant groups because that’s what the New Testament says: “Don’t be yoked together with unbelievers”.

Islam is the most liberal in that there is qualified permission given for male Muslim to marry females from the people of the book under certain conditions but that’s the exception.

(And some scholars even argue that Jews and Christians today aren’t likely to be the kind referred to by the Quran and that men, especially those living in the West should only marry Muslim women anyway)

So if Islamic rules are something to be taken seriously in terms of guiding your behavior, then that should be enough. If that’s not the case, then as a free citizen in an open and democratic society you can choose to take other things as more important but that doesn’t change the rules.

Well actually, a really good reason is because it atrophies a person’s spiritual progress. Yes, indeed, I truly beleive that despite all our faults, moving towards Christianity and Judaism is going backwards spiritually. So, in my mind, the Muslim male or female who does not care about progressing spiritually will be the one who chooses a non-Muslim as their mate, thier most intimate partner.

I don’t give a damn about a family’s control, because God is above family. Some people recognize that, some people do not.

Hey M. Guess what?! The gig is up! We don’t CARE what the mullahs have to say anymore. We’ve had enough of their garbage. We’re taking Islam back to the people!!! It doesn’t belong to you or your “elite” educated clergy. It belongs to everyone, especially the truly educated who don’t need some out-of-touch moron to interpret quran for him/her.

Yup. JP is correct. Screw the Mullahs. They have told us ridiculous things for centuries like “husbands can beat their wives”. We know that the word in the Qur’an doesn’t mean only “beat”. It also means “go away from”, which is what the Prophet did. The point of Islam is that we do NOT have to go through anyone to practice our religion. Remember that part?

dude~Allah put Islam to make things easy~Islam is for all the humans and it should be easy to understand~it said very clear on Quran that muslims should just marry with muslims~so easy~so dont try to make every one scolar here~Allah is not only talking to scolars in the world~it make me sick to think a muslim girl get married with nonmuslim guy~let alone alcohol or some small things here~marrieg is for a person’s whole life~it is a one of biggiest life dicision~it is a serious choice to do~if someone is joking about this i can say this is absolutely not normal!no need to debate~Haram is haram~that’s it!

Great stuff Wajahat. Your blog makes us think.
We ought not be so insular, and should broaden our perspective. What I mean here is:
“According to halakha, a child is not Jewish if the child’s mother is not Jewish” source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_is_a_Jew%3F

I think the biggest fear is that if given a choice, the children may choose a different religion from their own choice. New ideas and information is scary when you can’t control the flow of information.

One final thought. Christians have been marrying outside of their faith for centuries. Christianity hasn’t disappeared or changed. So, why would you be afraid that Islam would disappear with mixed marriages? All these same arguments have been given over the centuries and disproved. Is Islam so fragile that it has to be kept in a box? Is someone wants to be a Muslim, then nothing can keep them from it. So, let’s test that theory and let children choose. Along with letting Muslim women choose who they will marry.

I really think the different cultural norms are what is really getting in the way.

Again, the standard rule in traditional Christianity (Catholic/Orthodox) is that marrying non-Christians is actually wrong. And the same is true for many PRotestant groups. In terms of the three main Abrahamic religions, Islam is actually the most liberal. Now… in modern times especially in the West, Jews and Christians have become more and more liberal about their faith but I’m not sure that Muslims should go the same route.

This is laughable. Of course Islam is the most liberal – to you. Just as Islam is the most illiberal monstrosity – to me – sine I’m so liberal it’s not funny. (“MMM, this vanilla ice cream is SO delicious.” “But I like chocolate.” “Vanilla ice cream is the most delicious!” “Um, okay, yeah, whatever.”) Liberal is relative, and place names like “Christianity” Judiasm” ‘Islam” only work to obscure the rich, diverse, and deep differences that exist among real-life, living, human beings. Such obfuscation – the use of quick-ticket, monolithic concepts – is used to build straw-men arguments.

As for Muslims going that route – oh, they’re going there. Believe me. And it’s about time, because it actually makes them human again. Not rote memory machines, oppressed by others (read: fanatics, and typically, men), who have little creative spark to see how their religion can actually provide meaning in some way for their lives.

In Jesus Christ Superstar, the question the dead Judas challenges us with is, “Why’d you [Jesus] choose such a backward time in such a strange land? If you’d come today you could have reached a whole nation. Israel in 4 BC had no mass communication. Don’t you get me wrong. I only want to know.” The same could be said about Mohammed. God’s eternal message of rules provided for all eternity in 600s CE to a backwater trader? Um, God couldn’t wait until we were all just a bit more rational and tolerant to come to us and let us all know at once the truth.

Allah pick whoever He want as messager to mankind or to than group of people. That the Last Messager of Allah was underable to read isnot inportant since less than 1% of the world population of that time did know how to read.It help to show that Allah wrote the Koran not man since the Last Messager of Allah didnot know how to write how could he be the auther of the Koran. No human being since over 1400 year ago wrote than book to equall the Koran an it impact on history and societry.

funny really muslim man marrys a muslim women so what is ur point
muslim is not a label that u can play with
i might as well throw the quran on the floor then

as our scripture says there are those who say they are belivers by mouth but not heart
why should we change
do muslim men marry out side islam no
i am a man i know for a fact i will marry muslim women
so i will not be Contracting my self in my prays

Actually you are wrong. Muslim men marry outside Of Islam all the time. The issue is why muslim woman cannot marry someone outside of Islam, it’s a double standard. People are more open to gays getting married than a Muslim woman who wants to marry a Christian man. As a Muslim woman,I do not think it is fair that I have to lose or be disowned by my family just because of the person who I fell in love with and grew up with is Christian.

Contemporary jurists/ scholars like Imam Khaleel Mohammad, Hasan Turabi, Khaled Abou Fadel express that there is no islamic injunction against a Muslim woman marrying a non-muslim (or people of the book) males.

First and foremost, we should review the evidence that is put forth, for we as Muslims are seeking the Truth and followers of that which is True.

Dr. Abou el Fadl is a self-ascribed follower of (neo) mu’tazilah ideas, and as such one should understand his position with regards to that. For the purpose of brevity, let us summarize that mu’tazilah belief includes putting human reason on a higher position than tradition.

Thus, when we from the majority Sunni school write that there are 1400 years of ‘ijma (scholarly consensus) upon this issue – to the Mu’tazilah it does not matter as such because tradition is secondary to human reason.

However, we need to recognize the weakness of this position, because as Muslims we must place revelation (Qur’an and Sunnah) before reason – however this does not reject the use of reason, it simply deems that when revelation makes an issue clear, there is no longer a need to debate. For example, fasting in Ramadan is clearly commanded – therefore we need not debate its validity based upon human reason.

Obviously the response will be covered by our sister with time to come so I will not delve into a long-winded response to the issue here.

However, I’d like to only mention that when we are engaging in discussions such as this we, as Muslims seeking the truth, really need to evaluate our knowledge and sources of knowledge.

For my brothers and sisters who are upset with the idea of this topic; do not be. Our scholars looked at every issue from bottom to top and thus there is no reason to forget this tradition now.

However, I remind myself and those who read not to simple state that such and such a position is “archaic” or “out-dated.” Why? Because this is an insult and attack upon our scholars, scholars who we love and respect. We as Muslims much have better manners in dealing with such issues. Since there is a vast vast majority of agreement for the last 1400 years in the scholarly tradition upon this issue, I do feel it unfair and incorrect to say: “Come on… Really?” To do so is an insult to 1400 years of scholars and scholarship who have consistently held the other opinion – from the companions until today, it continues to be the majority position. I am not stating one can not ask, however one must ask and question with the manner of a Muslim – with respect, knowledge and dignity.

Another note for consideration, which was not mentioned: All four schools of thoughts are in agreement on this issue, that is it not permissible. That does not mean we should not ask this question, but does mean we should at least consider the evidence given by these scholars and schools of thought when engaging in such a discussion. And, Allah knows best.

In Dr. Abou el Fadl’s original ruling (http://www.scholarofthehouse.org/oninma.html) he does not provide evidence from the Qur’an or Sunnah regarding his position, he simply says that the evidence seems weak. Also note, that Dr. Abou el Fadl says that it is disliked (makruh). Thus we must have the full and proper context: even Dr. Abou el Fadl is not ruling it to be mubah (neutral), rather he is stating that it is “acting against the weight of the consensus” and that even his own ijtihad it is disliked to do so.

Referring to isolated scholars is like the internet, for every opinion, you can find at least one person who held that position. For example, Khaleel Mohammed also teaches that Palestine belongs to the Jews, or that tattoos are ok, etc. And in an interview I think Khaled Abou el Fadl said he was a Mutazilite.

Khaleel Mohammad and Khaled Abou El Fadel are primarily western academics not religious authorities. So yeah, they may be smart guys but I’m not sure they are in a position to give fatwas. And even in Hassan Al-Turabi’s case, other Sudanese scholars were calling him an apostate for what he said.

I think it is the strength of the argument and their credentials that matter, which is why others who feel threatened resort to cheap tactics as cowering such brilliant minds through apostasy charges and other deviant labels.

but what kind of credentials (western acadmic degrees? ijazas?) and how do you decide the strength of an argument? Are you measuring them against some kind of fixed and established criteria or are they “brilliant” and persuasive because they are saying what you want them to say?

Or from another point of view, the “cheap tactic” is to just give the names of isolated scholars who give rukhsas for what you want. The hard work would be to pick an established and sound methodology and apply it to the texts. And some parts may come out “easy” and some parts come out “hard”. But at least you know you aren’t following your ego.

The best scholarly orthodox exposition on the subject is by Moiz Amjad and Javed Ghamidi in Lahore. They both assert that while the ijma – consensus has been not to allow marriage with polytheists, it’s the definition of polytheists that counts. They go as far as to extend the permissability to theists – or believers in God, and not just ahl-al Kitab. They advise against it on social grounds however, not theological grounds, but – critically – do not forbid it. This is why I believe their reasoning is sound and why I think it’s okay – after years of subscribing to the taboo that it simply was not. There is a crisis of unmarried women or those already in relationships with non-Muslim men. Excluding them from society should have no basis whatsoever.

I’m proud of you Wajahat for hosting this piece and you Nadia for having written it. We may be orthodox but we’re not stupid. We neither have to subscribe to progressivist notions that are devoid of orthodoxy to qualify our arguments, nor traditionalist positions that don’t reflect our views.

It is high time the silent, orthodox Muslim that neither calls for shallow reforms nor for hardline anti-rights-based positions – speaks up.

A sneaky article:) She barely acknowledges the key point i.e. that the overwhelming consensus amongst Muslim scholars is that it is forbidden.

Instead she tries to list out (and then refute) what she believes are the underlying ‘justifications’ for the ruling. She also does a poor job of this.

Even if she were able to able to do a better job of refuting each one of the ‘justifications’ she lists, it still wouldn’t matter as not every prohibition or commandment in Islam needs a justification or ‘approval’ from us. Fasting has its benefits, but we don’t fast because we can see the benefits, we fast because we are commanded to do so. If there were no ‘visibile’ benefits to fasting, we would still do so, otherwise we end up second guessing Allah and only accepting what we feel like (which is exactly what this girl and others like her are doing).

In Islam we are ultimately commanded to ‘hear and obey’ and sometimes we don’t see the benefit an Islamic commandment till we are much older and wiser (if at all).

I’m glad she wrote the article – its good to discuss these things and I have several female Muslim friends who are discussing (or rather attempting to justify this), however the key point is that it is forbidden in Islam and this is the overwhelming consensus, whether you like it or not. One can always ‘fatwa shop’ find some ‘scholar’ who’ll tell you what you want to hear, but at the end of the day you have to be honest with yourself.

I (and some of my Muslim friends) do things which Islamically we are forbidden from doing so, and we hope that Allah forgives us for it one day, but we don’t try to fool ourselves and others by pretending its allowable.

But c’mon now, it is nowhere int he quran forbidden that muslim women can not marry no nmuslim men ? Where is it in the Quran ? If it haram in Islam to forbid something that is not haram, so forbidding this marriage is haram in itself because marrying a non muslim man is not haram, it is nowhere in the Quran stated that is it forbidden, unlike alcohol and eating porc, these two are clearly forbidden in the Quran while the marriage is not forbidde, neither for males nor females. You can not convnice me that muslim women can not marry non muslim men. All t emuslim men I know dont pray, drink, do drugs, are promiscuous… while all the Chrisitan males I know are religious, never drunk alcohol, never did drugs, are virgins in their late 20s and 30s, respect me and like me as I am. So you want to tell me that it’s okay to marry this non religious musilm man who just pretends to be muslim and know nohting of Islam just becaus ehe was borin in a muslim family, and forbid it for the muslim woman to be with a christian man ??? Does it make any sense ? Is it okay to marry “muslim men” just because ethey were born in a muslim family but know nothign about islam ??????????????????
Wow please

Oh let me tell you these stories please;
I know this muslim man of course who does not pray or anything who married a chrisitan girl, they had a son, and his wife insisted that the son be brought Christian and the muslim husband of course refused. You know what happened after that ?? they divorced, who took the son now ? the christian wife, where’s the chils now ? in the US, being brougt up as a Christian child. WHile the father went back to his home country and can not see his child almost at all.
Second story; there’s this neighbor who lived near me back home (in a muslim country) who lived by chance near me in the US, he went there few years before I did to the US. Married a Christian woman and had 3 children from her, he’s alcoholic and not religious at all. He lets his wife teach them how to be good chrisitans. They divorced and she took them by law, and he sees them once a month. Now all 3 of them are Christians.
Now tell me, how is it not forbidden for men to marry non muslim women ?

That’s irrelevant, though. It’s the two people who want to get married’s business to figure out how they’re going to raise their children, live their life, and if they’re old enough to marry they should be mature enough to think about these things.
But that doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t be allowed to make their own mistakes. Or that other couples who HAVE thought about these things should be punished because of it.

The question is moot, for both men and women. It was permissible for Muslims during the time of the Prophet (rs) to marry, “People of the Book,” because during that time the message sent down by the prophets (as) was not significantly altered or changed as it is today. The Bible of the Christians and the Torah of the Jews have been altered with the passage of time. Thus, there is a consensus amongst scholars that marrying “People of the Book” is no longer permissible.

Secondly, it is incorrect to assume that Allah (swt) did not mention women in the second ayah that the author of this article refers to. Allah (swt) was very specific and clear in all his revelations to the Prophet (rs), moreover, the Quran in many other ayahs does differentiate and note situations and laws for men and for women.

Nevertheless, the question is moot, after one understands that marrying the “People of the Book” is not permissible in our day and age, because of the significant alterations made to the books that were revealed prior to the Quran.

salaams,
yes, I alluded to this position elsewhere. I would just add that while I would be critical of the integrity of the Bible, I think the problems crept into the text at a very early age and the Bibles which existed in the West during the time of Muhammad (saaws) are not radically different from the Bible as Christians and Jews know it today. It is possible, that Middle Eastern Christians and Jews in the vicinity of Mecca and Medina had a different set of teachs and texts but I don’t think they were “original” Christians either.

At least, when I read a fatwa suggesting that even Muslim men shouldn’t marry Ahl al-Kitab the argument was that “Jews” and “Christians” today were more cultural “believers” and didn’t really take their own faiths all that seriously to begin with.

Your argument is very weak. The trinity was already well established by the 300’s, centuries before Islam. Also, the bible at that time was already compiled into a Greek translation of Jesus’ and the Hawariyun’s Aramaic speech and writings. The alterations were firmly established *very* early, which is why God sent Muhammad (duh).

Most of the arguements against marrying people of the book focus on post-colonial Muslim-identity politics. We SHOULD be thinking about such person’s spiritual health and having concern for their souls, not their tribal so-called identity.

as salam alaikum OmarG, I’m used to seeing you on Altmuslimah and not here.

I can answer the question regarding changes to the Bible: yes, during the time of the sahaba the worst (in my opinion) changes had occurred: the addition of the Trinity and the writings of Paul, not a prophet.

But the Bible has indeed changed since the time of the sahaba until present day. For one, the Bible was translated from Greek and Hebrew into Latin… and then into German… and then into English where it became the King James version (usually accepted by Evangelical Christians to be the verbatim word of Allah). Second, King James added and removed several key words in order to justify his political position (changed “Thou shalt not suffer a poisoner to live” into “Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live” so they could persecute and kill women).

Pardon my intrusion but my former life as a Christian comes in handy during discussions like these.

In most muamalaat cases an illah or justification is provided. In several ibadaah and ritual related cases (swine, prayers etc) the justification is not of import if the nass does not provide it.

The overwhelming consensus of the classical scholars went against music. Yet contemporary scholars, several of them have revised it. The overwhelming consensus of the classical scholars prescribed the death penalty for several crimes including apostasy, which were challenged by later scholars.

The majority is not always right. All four Imams, as well as scholars like Ibn Rushd, Ibn Hazm et al. were persecuted in their times, since at that time their opinions did not gel with others. Today they are part of mainstream orthodoxy or atleast taught in madrassas.

Music is even use in pre-k and k Islamic class to reach little childern some Islamist lesson. Even in early Islamist history some music was allow to time the action of many people doing the same job. Every galley ship that have rower have than drumer who beat than steady beat so all rower did the same action at almost the same time.

While it is important to mention the positions of scholars on certain issues, we should not have a habit of just running to them just to make a point. Islam is based on revelation not scholars.

While the majority can be wrong, they must be wrong for a reason. What I’m seeing here is not that but revisionism. This trend has been popular for the past hundred years, even more so since the advent of the Internet. In a prophecy come true, the knowledge will be taken away from the real scholars. We have so many armchair scholars that it is causing a awakening of revisionism.

First The verse of the Koran that cover interfaith marriage can have different meaning to diffetrent muslim. I think donot marry your women to people who believe in more than one god. At our mosque than muslim female teenager got into touble she was over than friend house than vedio was make of her drink acholic drink and she started to take her clothes off in mixed company. Her parent are grounding her permantly. We are liveing in the west not than Islamist country. There are going to more probium like this happen in the future. The video appear on myspace.

Lots of Muslims move to other places to escape the poor living conditions of their home country. They can’t just expect to pick up where they left off and just show up to the US with all their country’s customs used there.

That’s why Muslims have to tell their children about things so that they are not just blindly following others.

Our Islam exists without clergy, church or any other kind of hierarchical system because to adopt any such system, amongst other things, would imply that there exists a position between man and Allah(swt). A person’s relationship is directly with Allah(swt) and his faith is accountable to only Allah(swt). The distinction also serves the purpose of drawing a clear line between the supremacy of His divinity over man… every man.

Consequently, while debate is welcome, as are opinions of all walks and the interpretations of any school, these are solely the musings of MAN. They do not, they can not, they are forbidden from being ordained as law; they can not be interpreted as the will of Allah(swt). To do so is to essentially declare oneself as the voice of Allah(swt). This is shirk, no question.

Allah(swt) has given us the Quran as His voice, to ascribe anything from that text as law which was not expressly made law by Allah is an attempt to equate oneself with the knowledge, the will, the divinity of Allah(swt), a grace bestowed upon no man today.

Now I say this because the conservative side of this debate is inclined to quote scholars in place of Allah(swt) and when quoting Allah(swt) they elect to ‘explain’ what Allah(swt) meant to say; they also seem hell bent on condemning this blog, and anyone with the temerity to voice an opinion in opposition of the antiquated historical dogma, to an afterlife of fire and brimstone.

To those who chose to be this type of person in their commentary, I promise you, I guarantee you, you are not He. You are not His voice, you are not the ‘protector’ of His faith, you are not preserving His divine will.

What you are doing, likely successfully, is annoying Him because, purely for a difference of opinion, you’ve elected to castigate others over embracing them. What’s more, your treating this debate… this solid, honest and heartfelt debate between two people that probably respect each other quite a bit, as Satan’s stew.

Seriously, calm down.

Re-evaluate your thoughts…

Reduce thoughts to comments with a sprinkling of logic and rationale (maybe a little humility too if you can spare it)…

Filter the comments before they make it to your fingertips…

Then post.

Otherwise, keep it to yourself. Respect of others is an express requirement prescribed by Allah(swt). That you CAN take to the bank (I mean Quran of course).

RSHaq, thank you for eloquently stating the position of the people who have come to this blog in earnest to seek out the truth. The reason why we are here is to escape the dogmatic perspective of the scholars. But these conservative folk come online to coax us back to that which we do not want any part of. It’s time the educated muslim ummah take Islam back from the ignorant, out-of-touch “scholars” who have caused mostly trouble for Islam. QURAN first, everything else is pure hearsay, especially if it comes from some guy with a beard who folds his pants…

I agree with much of what you said but I also see another side of the issue. I was raised Christian. And part of the reason why I’m not Christian anymore is that I found certain things in the Bible which I fundamentally disagreed with, and going along with that, I came to believe that the Christian Church (and the overwhelming number of Christian Churches existing today) suffer from a basic discontinuity from what Jesus (or Moses for that matter) originally taught. (the details of this is a whole other discussion)

And then after being in a religious “in between” period of reading about different faiths, flirting with agnosticism, etc. I found myself more and more attracted to Islam. And a part of that was that I found that the Quran appealed to my sense of what was true and right, but another part of that was that I came to understand that the mainstream of Islam was more faithful to what Muhammad brought than the mainstream of Christianity was faithful to what Christ brought.

That’s not to say Muslims are perfect and wonderful and infallible but that the faith was adequately transmitted in a sound fashion.

So I agree with you that there is no clergy in Islam. And the only infallible authority which is clearly accessible to us today is the Quran. And I agree with you that the interpretations of the human scholars shouldn’t be mistaken for divine judgements. But on the other hand I don’t believe that the ummah is in some kind of general state of apostacy. And the scholars of the past aren’t just know-nothing people. And I think there is virtue in having a great deal of respect for those tried and approved methodologies instead of going the Protestant style-Reformation route.

The Reformation wasn’t an unqualified good. It led to a great deal of divisiveness and violence in Western History like the 100 years War and 1000s of different denominations.

The Imams who “founded” the four sunni schools weren’t just working alone. They had students after them who were also respected scholars who refined their methodologies and added to their knowledge and corrected the mistakes of those who came before. They aren’t just the product of some guy but literally hundreds and thousands of scholars building on one another (and arguing and debating with one another) seeking the truth.

And I’m not saying that they shouldn’t be questioned. But for our own sake, and understanding, and the good of the ummah, we should give them their due.

Also, in terms of individualism, I actually would think of myself as a very skeptical and questioning person by temperament. Otherwise I wouldn’t have converted from the religion I was raised in into something new. But at the same time, if I wanted to just make up my own religion to satisfy my whims I could have become a Unitarian or something (no diss, intended to Unitarians, they are just extremely non-dogmatic and unstructured).

Dogma isn’t necessarily a bad thing. As Muslims, we actually do have specific beliefs.

There are Islamoprobic Hater like Robert Spencer who want Islam to go thought than Reformation process like Christian did. Islam doesnot needed tham Reformation. The main problen with Christion is the Jesus the Son of God and the Trinity (God the Father, Jesus the Son of God and the Holy Ghost). At lest the Unitarian School doesnot believe that Jesus is the Son of God and they donot believe in the Trinity they are than old sect of Christian from 3th century ACE.

I wonder why would a non-Muslim man take the burden of marrying a woman who is covered from head to toe, he can’t take her to a bar or dance with her in a night club, she will fast every year in Ramadan and thus no food and no sexual intercourse allowed during the day for a whole month..etc and the list goes!
If you are not a Muslim man and you think you can take this then you are certainly a hero..!

btw, I’m a Muslim woman who had several crushes on non-Muslim men before so I know for sure it’s not gonna work if you are a practicing Muslim woman..

wow, even though I would agree with the larger point that a Muslim woman shouldn’t marry a non-Muslim man I’m not sure why we have to defend that position by making a whole lot of assumptions about non-Muslim behavior, expectations, basic decency, etc. Non-Muslims aren’t all horny alcoholics. That’s not really the point. The issue is more that saying and believing “La illaha illa Allah. Muhammad rasul Allah” weighs a great deal.

i find this debate rather stimulating..i am not of a muslim background instead am of a christian back ground and also here i find i have some squabbles about somethings in the Bible but in the end i always question both muslims and christians and whatever other religin we follow..is Gods word or Allahs word his original thought?what i mean is how such are u that it hasnt been changed to suit the likes of men??or the interpretation of men.
Second the God that you worship individually is he so unjust that he cant allow for one to do somethings?
Third whatever you do..should u live as though u were doing it 4 God and not for man?thats what the Bible states i dont know abt the Quran..
and in the end i find somethings are not as God would have wanted then to be bt we as humans just interpretate them to our liking..
so before critising and condemn think of what God would have wanted also empathise..ask urself if u weer i her shoes what u would do..

im reading some of these and this hurts me so bad because its questioning the word of Allah(god) im a muslim and ill be honest i though why cant i marry an american man and all that but just reading all of this hurts because its like everyone wants to find something like a loop hole to question everything and thats not right what god has written he has written for a purpose and what he wrote it to protect us from bad and to do good

Our America Courts alots of time look at past ruleing which are taken as and use in our courts to make ruleing on legal matter. In the 1890’s our Hight Court rule there can be seperate factice(bathroom, public school and etc) but equall for all races. In 1954 the Hight Court reverse itself when they found public school wasnot equall for all races. They rule that schools must bus kids to over school to have = numbers of races kid in each school. Alots of racist white hated that ruleing. The funny thing is that black have to be bus over 5 miles to than black public school while there was than all white public school across the street.
We all know that the Koran say you cannot have more than 4 wifes at the same time. What it than illness kill lot more men than women that the planet ended up with 25 women to each man, the religious scholar can temp change that ruleing to allow each man to have more than 4 wifes at the same time untril the ratio of man to woman correct itself.

All court of Law will hear new case of points settle in the past as law to see it they are vaild. In the public school case the all white school got 5 time the money of than all black school, the all white school was better maintrain compare to than all black school. So they didnot meet the 1890’s Hight Court standard of being seperate and = they where seperate and not =.

Good old lawless India where 20,000 criminal convict by me tear down illegality than mosque mosque thaqn the BJP than fascot party form along the line of Hilter Nazie party in the 1930’sapprove of that lawless act.

You forgot a significant ayah from the Quran. Surah Mumtahanah, ayah’s 1-10 emphasize associations between muslims and non-muslims. I draw your attention specifically to ayah 10:

“O you who believe! When believing women come to you as emigrants, examine them; Allaah knows best as to their Faith, then if you ascertain that they are true believers send them not back to the disbelievers. They are not lawful (wives) for the disbelievers nor are the disbelievers lawful (husbands) for them” 60:10

Come on Hasan!
Suppose you meet a nice friendly optimistic girl, suppose she is an European,blond Dutch girl.You fall in love with her and she with you and of course you want to marry her.
Unfortunately she is not a Muslim but lets say she is agnostic.(She has no religion but is neither atheist, in fact she doubt)
Then you look in your moral cooking book and you find out that an hypotetic, non existing being named Allah forbids you to marry that nice girl just because she is not a Muslim.
What are you gonna to do???

Do you have also personal toughts and convictions?
Your answer is a perfect illustration of the image we have from Muslims here in Europe: Muslim are people who cannot think for themselves, they always think “secondhand” and have to look in their “cookbook” or to ask a fatwa to an Imam.
Then you may get their standard answer, they never give you their personal opinion.
That is the very reason of our “Islamophobia” : the confrontatation with preprogrammed beings unable to think for themselves…

This is my personal answer. Self-sacrifice has value in life. You have to be willing to sacrifice and make the hard decisions because God commanded you to. It’s as simple as that. These are my personal convictions, that’s why Islam is “Submission to God”. You give yourself whole-heartedly to something greater than you. Have some faith. Just because I’m referring to the Quran does not mean I’m preprogrammed, I’m simply referring to a point of reference (and a book that has all the asnwers for anything, not a “cookbook”) for my motivations and why I believe what I do.

Very good answer Hasan , I really appreciate that!
can you understand that I am an atheist in the sense that I do not believe in the Christian God or in Allah but in somewhat much bigger , a kind of eternal and cosmic energy that gives everything a meaning?

Fatwa is than legal ruleing. I cannot issue than Fatwa that will be legal, Osama bin Laden cannot issue Fatwa that are legal binding on muslins. Muslim can think for thenself but they worry about what other muslim think also. What about the illegal laws in French that ban muslim women from wearing Islamist approve clothes. It I was the mayor of the city where I live I would issue than legal ruleing declare the entire French Government illegal than nobody in French needed to obey they government laws.

Sorry Brian,
Islam approved clothes-exept the Burqa- are allowed in France and in Belgium where I live.
Burqa is forbidden for 2 reasons: for securityreasons and for not to hamper communication between persons.
I learn’t that nowhere in the Koran or hadiths is asked to to wear a Burqa.
But I have another question for you:why is it not allowed to build Christian churches in Moslim countries altough Moslims are allowed to build Mosques in European countries?
Why is apostasy forbidden altough islam says: “there is no compulsion in religion”?
Why it is dangerous to out you as an atheist, a freemason, an homosexual in a Moslim country?

JJ first the Burqa is approve Islamist clothes so outlawing the Burqa is illegal in my opion. What security threat you are going to much by what Islamoprobia like Mad Mel ande that dutch member of parliament who is homosexual. In our mosque we have woman who wear the Burqa with no face covering and with face covering I have no touble communication with the women, phoney reason to ban the Burqa. The only place in the world that churches and other religious builting cannot be place is the two Holy Cities in Islam. During Meccaq war with Medina some muslim took the side of the pagon they where execute for treason against the Islamist state. Homosexual who do they sexual act in public can be put on trail in than Islamist court of law.

Brian, I agree with you. It is a horrible attack on the beautiful religion to say that women may not be seen or heard. The Qur’an and the Prophet (SAWS) did not tell people to treat women differently. MEN oppress women, NOT Islam.

Khadija,
I really cannot understand the meaning of your comment.
I suppose Brian tried to say( after an attempt to understand his horrible English)
“It is your problem if you are only able to talk to veiled women”

or did I misunderstood?
And kadija , do you wear a burqa yourself?
I have read your website and I do not think you do…

I e-mail than female member of our mosque broad of Trustee that we needed to educate our female and male muslim teenagers about the danger of drink alchol, takeing illegal drug, STD(sexual Transit Illness) and senting nude picture of yourself over the internet and removeing all wed carmon from your computer. First America is in mortal decay which is getting worst. Pron maker are picking up teenager girl nude picture sent over the internet an blackmail then into have more sexual explicate picture taken an in the future useing then in porn film. Many of board member both female and male think we needed to protect our childern includeing teenager from harn. First acholic drink are legal in america an too easyies availture. They non-muslim friend donot care about mortality. But we also cannot act like the religious police in some countries. We needed to be frank with the teenager about the danger of STD but tell the truth not lies about the danger. Female teenager would like to have childern when marrage in the future many STD stop you from have childern in the future an too many STD are anti-bio restante to all anti-bio drugs we have. I know too many parent would like to not have they teenager educrate this way as they believe if keep quite about this it will go way. I than 60 year old with no kid of my own.

Aslamu Alaykum!
hmmm, i was brought up on that Muslim women marrying non muslims were wrong

i can see that if you were to because of love the women would lose her way! Go mosque less often, pray less often and the children would maybe brought up on Islamic morals but probs lack the teachings of their deen!

If there is no hard evidence in the Quran then i say its better to be safe than sorry!!!

Cant the same argument be used to discourage muslim men from marrying non-muslim women? That maybe the family and the kids would lose the proper teaching of the deen? actually..cant that even happen if both parents are muslim but just not very good at enforcing religion in the household or attentive to their children?

Bottom line..nothing in the quran stops muslim women from marrying non-mulim men. All arguments are just fear tactics that are not evidence-based…

What I mean when the Prime Minister of the UK say that he needed to see the woman face to be able to talk with her show that he is unfit to be PM of that nation. I talk to one veil woman durning set up work durning the fasting month than I have no touble talking with her. Our secretary fell behind in her admin work for trying to woman set up working which I did in the past which is mostly done when there is harty any women in the mosque than the one there have no problen with brother doing some of the worked for then. I told her let me do that setting up worked for her.

Brian,
Most of your comments are completely incomprehensible.
I have read this comment at least 5 times.
The only thing I think to understand is that the Prime Minister of the UK in your opinion is unfit to be PM because he is not able tot talk to a full face veiled woman.
The rest of your comment: sorry incomprehensible.
Learn English please or leave this forum or at least ask a better skilled friend to correct your bullshit.

I than sorry that you hight IQ people caqnnot understand sinple english any more. I do alots of the setup worked for Istar Dinner at the Mosque where I go. I mostly worked in the man area but needed to travel thought the woman area to get paperplates, and other item to do my job. In the past I did get do setup worked in the woman area when the one woman who wear the viel was too ill to do it so I did it. Our Secretary try to do too much other worked, so I told her let me do the setup worked in the woman area as there is very few women in the area and they donot mind if I do it.

I know it’s hard to understand him, but I could understand him, well, mostly… But I have been talking to lots of “people who can’t speak English very well” for a long time… Just try to understand what he wanted to say, not what he said, and if you want, I can translate it for you…

Revertive you are so right. There was alot of killing by christian in the Rome Empire over the Trinely by the pro and con forces. It is now knowly that the very early christian where very much like the Jew in believe that there was one God that wasnot One God slip into 3 God.

Can it be any clearer than this: “O you who believe! When believing women come to you as emigrants, examine them, Allah knows best as to their Faith, then if you ascertain that they are true believers, send them not back to the disbelievers, they are not lawful (wives) for the disbelievers nor are the disbelievers lawful (husbands) for them….” (Surah al-Mumtahanah, 60:10)

This is only the beginning of a discussion. By no means is my piece a be-all and end-all answer. AltMuslimah (www.altmuslimah.com/a/b/rsa/3948/) picked up this debate as well. So I took the liberty of adding an Addendum there, which I thought to add here. Hopefully, that alleviates some concerns, and further demonstrates the need of in-depth scholarship to bring clarity in this area.

***Addendum***

Salaam all,

I wanted to follow up with a mini-addendum to this article. Since the original post on http://www.goatmilkblog.com I received much feedback, mostly positive, some negative. I want to address some concerns brought up and point out other areas of research that should be explored.

First off, some have expressed concern about discussions of such topics by non-scholars and the risk of readers accepting an opinion as if it were a fatwa. I think each of us adequately expressed that we are not scholars. We were each exploring the development of one side of the issue and were limited in our word count. The debate style is simply to facilitate discussions that are already occurring in the community. Articles such as these are not meant to provide one-stop-shop answers or fatwas, we can only give readers a reference points to explore. It is up to the reader to investigate the issue further and make a well-informed decision on his or her life choices.

Second, should any of the readers be interested in exploring this issue further, I would like to briefly touch upon a few points that have not been brought up by the other debaters here:

1) We are taught that men and women are equal but have “rights” over one another when pertaining to certain issues. Thus, the underlying issue here, in my opinion, is whether women and men have equal rights when it comes to their options for marriage. For those who accept that they do not, the discussion is moot. They believe that there is an inherent inequality in marriageable options for men and women, and that this notion is founded in Islamic text. Those who do not agree with the aforementioned premise are trying to understand the accepted Islamic tradition of this inequality, why it exists and whether it is an accurate interpretation of Islamic text.

2) There are, however, some who argue that the equality does exist, just not as traditionally accepted. They define this equality by prohibiting both men and women from marrying non-Muslims (kitabiyya included). This is for several reasons, such as: a) the definition of kitabiyya only pertains to Muslims, b) even if kitabiyya did pertain to Jews and Christians before, the deviation of these groups from certain key Islamic principles make this definition invalid today.

3) One other point of contention is Surah Al-Mumtahanah (http://www.quran.com/60). This Surah is often misread/misinterpreted when used on a variety of issues. The reason for this may be due to lack of Arabic skills and background knowledge. Still, the gravest error made with this Surah and many others is taking ayats or parts of ayats while disregarding the rest. For example, 60:1 revealed during a time of particular tribulation, tells believers not to take Allah’s enemies (disbelievers) as allies at a time of war. 60:7, then states that Allah might turn your enemies into your allies, and that He is most forgiving and merciful. So one can see how 60:1, if taken out of context, can ignore the true message at hand.

60:10 is sometimes used in the marrying/not marrying non-Muslims debate as evidence that women may not marry non-Muslims, Jews and Christians included. The ayat speaks of those converting during this time of contention for the community (at times this would be in secret or at a risk to them). It says that when these believing women come to the believing men, the believing men should not send them back to the disbelievers as they are no longer regarded as lawful for them (in marriage). Those arguing against women marrying non-Muslims, stop here. But this seems to be a major error, as the ayat continues and states that the believing men should not hold on to their marriage bonds with disbelieving women.

So several questions arise from ayat 60:10 – a) which disbelievers are being spoken of and under what context? b) how does this ayat contribute to the debate over the meaning of kitabiyya? c) if this ayat can be used to demonstrate that women are explicitly prohibited from being married to any non-Muslims, then does this not explicitly prohibit men from doing the same, thus, demonstrating equality?

I explored the popular argument in my original article and the loopholes in this reasoning because I felt it was a good start to such a discussion. I would also like to point out that we, as Muslims, are instructed as to the qualities to seek prospective spouses. These qualities are expected, ideally, to be inherent in a Muslim. Therefore, as I mentioned in my article, it seems quite clear for many reasons why marrying a non-Muslim, even a Christian or Jew, would be strongly discouraged for women or men. But the popular argument as to why it is prohibited for women does not provide an adequate explanation. This means, if there is a “yes” or “no” answer on this issue, the opinion has not been fully formulated for the masses. It is understandable that the popular opinion was accepted by all schools of thought, because men often traveled and needed more marriageable options, while women did not, and by living primarily in Muslim societies did not find a need to explore the issue further. This is simply not the case for many young Muslims today living in non-Muslim societies. This is forcing many to act as they deem appropriate despite the confusion.

Ultimately, this all demonstrates a need for further scholarly exploration of all aspects of the issues to determine a) whether Muslim women and men have equal options when it comes to choosing a partner in marriage and b) what these options are and the standards accepted.

Insha’Allah, that clears up some confusion as to the nature and purpose of this discussion and provides some relevant reference points for exploration. As always, Allah knows best.

I for one am raised Christian, however I do not describe myself as such anymore. I do believe in God still but I’m on a quest sort of, for truth and meaning on what it means to be a true believer. It’s important to do good and to act right.

I met Muslim friends this year. I was even invited to attend a mosque because I am interested in learning more about Islam. I would say the only thing that bothers me is the marriage issue.

Is it really forbidden in sense that there’s punishment? That a woman will be kicked out? Excommunicated? I surely hope not. If I would continue to live my life as a believer (which is not an if, it’s an is) and love is present between myself and a Muslim woman, I would respect her and her faith. Because not just as a believer but also as a man, I fell in love and married a woman for all she is.

Jeans, Good luck to you! I hope you find a great woman (muslim or non-muslim) who will love and respect you too for all respect and love you give her. I am a Muslim woman and have met many respectful non-Muslim men so I understand where your question is coming from. btw,I have posted a reply to Sister Soul here:

I reverted to Islam this past May, after months of study and practicing the deen. My husband(who is not Muslim and is very Christian) introduced me to my first real “taste” of Islam. He bought me a Quran a couple days after Christmas. He gave it to me as matteroffactly, “Here is something I think you may be interested in”. I read the book, cover to cover and decided it was what I was looking for. I believed in G-D, but I didn’t attest to one particular faith. When I read the Quran, It just touched my heart and made me weep.

My husband encourages me to go to the mosque, asks me if I prayed today, buys me scarves and when I am away from my cell phone and the adhan alarm goes off, calls me from wherever I am in the house that it is going off. I love him for giving me this book,(The Words) and filling in me a void that had been in my heart for a long time. Alhamdulillah!

SideNote: We have a son who attends the mosque with me on occasion. He also goes to church with his grandparents,who don’t preach the trinity and is learning both faiths. He asks questions and we both try our best to answer them. I think that Islam is just the natural progression from Christianity. Plus, aren’t we supposed to study and believe in all the revelations sent by Allah? What is important is that one belief that it is One God, with no partners.

are u sure u have read the quran cover to cover
‘Say: The Truth has come from your Lord. Let him who will, believe it, and let him who will, reject it.’
(al-Kahf 18: 29)

In which hadith, besides God and His revelation do they believe? (45:6)
They insist upon following conjecture, when? the guidance is given to them herein from their Lord.” (53:23)
According to the? Quran, there is only one valid sunna (law): God’s law (Sunnatullah) (33:38,62; 35:43; 40:85; 48:23).
The Quran is not a fabricated Hadith; …it details everything. [12:111]

And whoever desires other than Islam as religion – never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be
among the losers chaptar 3.85

And when a messenger from? Allah came to them confirming that which was with them, a party of those who had been given the Scripture threw the Scripture of Allah behind their backs as if they did not know(2.101)
This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. (5.3)
Islam does not work on what u think Islam only works form Quran okay so please if u want to follow 2 religions go ahead but please do not misguide others
thanks

Where in my comment did I say I was practicing two faiths? My family is just fine, no problems, my husband isn’t persecuting me, and when I’m able I go to Jumu’ah when my work schedule as a police officer permits. I have no one to answer to,and prove something to but the Creator. Not you, or the general public.

In response to your ayat, ” Verily, the only acceptable religion to Allah is Islam.” [Noble Quran 3:19] We should always try to understand the meaning. Islam means peace and submission to our One creator, most Powerful..so its not about ppl born muslim who preach but about the acceptable way to God is to submit everything to God, if ppl try, God helps. And its better to see the entire world that God gave instead of just looking at one type of ppl and thinking thats reality of all that there is. Then why the Quran didnt come down to Noah or Abraham..each time is different and we have to be grateful that we have been blessed with it, but doesnt mean thats the only way someone will go to heaven..its really the way that you live according to how Allah expects from us. If ppl didnt stray in the first place, God wouldnt have to send any books or prophets.

please if u want to follow 2 religions go ahead but please do not misguide others
(aren’t we supposed to study and believe in all the revelations sent by Allah? )
thats what it looks like on the comment of urs above, u can do both but
i just said do not misguide others on that comment

If you don’t care, then why the hell comment? I’m done, with ignorant comments about what I should do, and how I am somehow influencing people otherwise. I’m sure people reading this are smart enough to come to their own conclusions. As salaamu alaikum. Bye bye!!!!!

In Iran, which has the government of Allah, it is illegal for a muslim woman to marry a non-muslim man.

I have heard from an Iranian woman that the divorce rate in Iran is 75%. This is 50% higher than that of the U.S., which most often credited with the highest divorce rate. The rate has been published as high as %80 with criticism of love marriages having a 90% divorce rate.http://www.payvand.com/news/09/may/1257.html

“Most women in our society have long been opposed to sigheh and polygamy. They have only accepted the practice out of distress and necessity. Among families, traditional as well as modern, religious as well as secular, and among women as well as men, sigheh has always been associated with shame and regarded as a stigma. It seems that this will continue to be the case in the future. Opposition to the practice has been reflected clearly in various studies that have been conducted during the past few years by governmental institutions and independent researchers…

This clearly shows why moderate muslims are a big problem to the ummah. Moderate muslims and Wahhabi/Salafis are exactly the two sides to the same coin – using the modern liberal approach – entrenched in individualism. May God guide us all.

What if the woman is a Muslim and the man is an Agnostic (doesn’t believe in the existence nor the inexistent of a God).The Agnostic man isnt convinced that there is or isnt a Higher Being.

Also, If that man (the agnostic) is the kind that truly respects the rights of his Muslim lady he loves and doesnt interfere in her practices, then would it be permissable (my the Qur’an) for a Muslim lady to marry an Agnostic, who will not stand in the way of her Muslim practices and let her raise her children in her religion.

What if the ‘muslim’ woman herself is basically atheist/agnostic? Yet people (her parents, family, community what not) tell her she must not on any account marry a non-muslim, including another atheist/agnostic just like herself! Rather they would prefer she marry a muslim man, yet don’t realise that such a thing is of course against the faith too (a muslim man can not marry an atheist/agnostic woman and have an islamically valid nikah).

I think this is the situation facing many ‘cultural muslims’ like myself in the west. I’ve never practised the faith, don’t make any pretense of doing so and frankly don’t believe in any gods/goddesses/imaginary sky fairy/afterlife/jinns yet my parents and others in the community still insist on calling me a ‘muslim.’ Then they expect you to get married according to islamic rules and have an islamic nikah, despite knowing you don’t believe in any of that stuff.

Any other cultural muslims but functional atheists face this situation? How do you deal with parental pressure and cultural pressure to conform to being ‘muslim’ even if you think organized religion is bullshit?

Oh and I think I have it bad here in the west. What about agnostics/atheists who have to tow the community line and pretend to be ‘muslim’ in countries governed by islamic law like Saudi Arabia or Iran? Can a Saudi agnostic woman of ‘muslim’ family marry a non-muslim man, given that she does not believe in the legitimacy of the shariah and quran?

Hi there,
I have finally finished reading all of your posts i enjoyed taking a look at what you guys think, and what has been said, but i honestly havent found an answer though.. everyone here has different thoughts.. i am an american muslim.. im 19, dont want to get married just yet, but i still think about my future.. i do love someone.. but hes christian.. he says he loves me and will care through everything.. i told him i think muslim women cant get married to nonmuslim men, i have found many reasons why… but at the same time i see lots of people saying its fine to marry a nonmuslim as long as he doesnt interrupt with the religion you follow, he is a christian and so are his parents, he started reading the Quran and told me he feels like a muslim already.. but he is scared of what his parent would think, especially because his mom works at the church… well anyways, my question is.. Can a muslim women marry a christian?? i am deeply inlove with him.. and him caring soo much for me, also.. hes slowly walking to the right path, which makes me very happy…. reading the Quran without me trying to force him.. anyways i would appreciate a nice response,

Dear Noor,
If you really belief that everything in the Koran is true and other beliefs are wrong then it is better not to marry a Christian,Hindu,Mormon or Atheist.
Your “religious” belief will always be a point of discussion and source of anger in your marriage.
You will always depend of fatwa’s and traditonnal ideas about what is good or wrong in your marriage.
But if you accept that all human beings are equal and that religions are just phantasies then marry the man of your heart regardless his religion.
Allah or God simply doesn’t exist and there is no afterlife.
The only but precious thing humans have is their life on earth. Make the best of it!
Set you free of all teachings of Priests,Imams aso, they just try to have a hold on you.
There is undoubtly a higher spiritual reality but that has nothing to do with so called religions as Islam or Christianity.
You will find the truth in yourself but only under the condition that you are what you are and not a “secondhand” being that cannot think for herself.
Fight yourself free Noor!

Many, consumed by passion and deficient in religion as a result, have throughout the ages twisted and stretched Koranic verses and invented “Authentic Hadiths” to suit their own agendas.

It is clear that it is forbidden to forbid what is not forbidden.

There is no explicit prohibition. God gave you a mind. The intentions of those who invent rules should therefore be clear to you.

The innovators who have turned Islam into a prison rule book have very little understanding of the religion they profess to follow. How do you identify an innovator? He is generally the one who is accusing everyone he disagrees with of being an innovator…

I change my mind with the hostile Islamoprobic racist with the faulire of the federal court to deal with these hate speech from then, muslim female can only marry than muslim man. If than woman who convert to Islam have than hushand who refuse to convert at all the muslim community must help her get than divorse from the unbeliever who is mostly like than Islamoprobic racist.

Your hatred will lead to nothing but self destruction. Your bigotry will lead to nothing but more islamophobia. Your threats of hellfire are driving an ever increasing number towards the conclusion there must be something fundamentally wrong with Muslims.

I than not filled with hatered at all. First Islamoproblic will exsit no matter what I say about then you unbeliever think.Believe it if than woman who is married convert to Islam and the hushand refuse to do so after than reasonable amount of time past the muslim community must help her get than divorse from her hushand.

The muslim woman helping me to find wife told me as than hushand ALLAH hold me respond for my wife wearing the Hijah in public. I e-mail her back saying ALLAH only exsept the man to use word to make her wear never to use force like breating her up the Koran doesnot allow wifebreating or murder her for not wearing it.

There is of course a way to follow only what is specifically prescribed in the Koran regarding marriage to non-Muslim men:

“The adulterer may marry only an adulteress or an idolatress; and the adulteress may marry only an adulterer or an idolater…” [24:3]

In other words, if it is true that she cannot normally marry a non-Muslim, then all the Muslim girl needs to do is sleeps with her non-Muslim boyfriend, and then she is explicitely permitted to marry him…

So if the traditionalists and the “weight of the consensus” are right, then the following happens when a Muslim girl marries a non-Muslim man:

– a civil marriage takes place (since a religious one is impossible)

– this marriage is not valid, therefore as soon as it is consumated the spouses are adulterers

– as soon as they are adulterers, then it becomes possible for the couple to be married – noone can then object to an Islamic ceremony taking place…

There needed to be 4 witness to the same Adulter act and they must be muslim men or women in good standing. Also since they are married cicilo by the state they cannot be adulters at all. It than woman who is married convert to Islam but her hushand doesnot they are still married untril than divored is granted to her by than civil court in america.

The QUAN say they needed 4 muslim witness are needed then 4 muslim witness are needed.Stated to the world mean nothing as they can be lying about slereping together and photographic evidence willnot do either.The evil Serb try to get one private in they military to plead guielty to all the crime the SERB did the Court threw the plead out saying that they donot believe one private did all warcrime and rape alone.

Those who are saying “I told you so” are following a logical fallacy: that Muslim men never lust or cheat on their wives. If one can prove that Muslim men are perfect husbands, then I may consider the “i told you so logic.” But considering that I know many Muslim men who are cheaters and fornicators (sex before marriage), I highly doubt anyone can provide sufficient proof of a Muslim husband’s divine perfection.

I have sufficient proof that muslim husbands have NO divine perfection. I know MANY husbands who mistreat their wives, mentally, physically and emotionally because they are not truely God loving/fearing. God is the Most Just, He is the Creator of ALL, so when stupid/ignorant people only consider muslims by label, He must be laughing because obviously God Consciousness are only for the wise. Judgement is for Allah because people have no knowledge of the unseen. Don’t be arrogant people, we don’t know who can be ending up higher rank in Allah’s eyes regardless of what you are born as…

Also, if you people read the Quran, it always talks about believers versus unbelievers. There is a sura that says that if you dont accept one God, the angels, the bookSSSS, the prophets and you make distinctions between them, then you can be to blame as well. Regardless every time it says only Allah is All knowing. If you are arrogant and think you can judge all people without being humble, you should take a good look at your heart and repent to your Creator before pointing fingers.

Also, may I add, Sura 2:232:”And do not prevent them from marrying persons of their choice. This instruction is for all among you who believe in Allah and the Last day..”
“Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error. Whoever rejects false worship and believes in God has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks. And God hears and knows all things.” (Quran 2:256)
“If it had been your Lord’s will, all of the people on Earth would have believed. Would you then compel the people so to have them believe?” (Quran 10:99)
“The Messenger’s duty is but to proclaim the Message.” (Quran 5:99)

Some have doubted the wisdom of the Islamic scholars on the prohibition of Muslim women marrying non-Muslim men. I think that the episode between Anthony Weiner and Huma Abedin has proven that they are ABSOLUTELY correct. We should not forget that the Muslim scholars are more knowledgeable on Islam than a Muslim that has not had their scholarly training.

Compare the indiscretions of normal men to Anthony Weiner. Sorry, “Carlos Danger”. I don’t think many women want a Carlos Danger just because they assume all men cheat.

However, it’s not about religion, it’s about culture. Western men, whether Muslim or not, are more likely to cheat because that is in their culture. They are brainwashed into it. In all the love scenes in films, tv, or talked about in music, how many are between married couples? Exactly. That subconsciously reinforces, in both men and women, the idea that illicit relationships between unmarried individuals are more interesting and arousing.

So marry a man raised in the West at your own peril. And sisters living in the Muslim world, you have maybe 10-20 years before all the men there are just like the men in the West due to the internet and television.

Like I said, I have experience with being married twice, blindly arranged once, and second was still the islamic way, did not get to date, had to make up my mind after 1 month of talking on the phone. Well, I have seen my share of mistreatment from a muslim husband. Unless u say all men are not worthy to be married to, then why did Allah give us the choice to marry men in the first place when there are so many problems with men in general. (I am not sexist, just making a point) I can understand it being mukhru but come on, haram? Allah will account the people that make up their own judgements for people that could end up ruining people’s lives. If I was to marry a nonmuslim, and stay strong in the right path, someone prohibiting me will answer to Allah on something that was none of their business.

My ex-wife who wasnot muslim yhan I wasnot muslim but christian as my ex-wife was christian treat me badly posible murdering my baby girl by her just to spike me. It isnot only muslim who have this proble. Her muedering the baby was the turning point in her divorse from me she won than great victory against me who was unable to defence myself when her lawyer fround out what she did he ask the court on closeing the case to reopen case than it was reopen for six month very judge in the court where anger at her for what she did to the baby that the entire divorse agreement was rewritten to be more fravorable to me she was asking for 4500 than month support payment I only make 11,000 dollar than year the court reduce it to zero support as she make 50,000 dollar than year.

I believe in the Quran, Allah, Judgement day, Hereafter, the Books, the Messengers, I established regular prayer (devoted in prayer to Allah), give charity, fast, and I do accept that we are all made differently, for different purposes in life, different views and Allah created us that way, each of us have different talents..and in the end my life showed me there is no valid reason for anything that happens, its all Allah’s will and being humble I accept we know nothing each of us compared to Him…so we leave each person to their own way in life, just as it says in the Quran and the last messenger of Allah has guided us to believe. How do we know that if one marries a nonmuslim, that he ends up learning about Islam and the children become in the right path which may not have been if they didnt marry a muslim? Lets not forget, there are many other messengers that came, do we follow their teachings? There are a lot of good things that Allah sent us..dont be blind..we are muslims: (definition: those that submit to one God, not to people) O people, use your God given brain. !!

By the way, is there anyone who will support me in marrying me to a nonmuslim, but marry me with a nikkah, the islamic ceremony? I dont know any imams, but if someone could help me because I am a muslim with all the right intentions and actions and if I marry a nonmuslim, its unfair that I dont get to have an islamic ceremony because I live in the way of Allah :(

I’m not sure I understand. For an Islamic marriage you basically need a marriage offer, acceptance, and a sufficient number of witnesses. And then it would be customary to have a contract and a mahr. But you don’t really need an “imam” to “marry you” to the other person. It doesn’t need to be in a masjid. No clergy of any kind has to be involved. Everything else is basically cultural and you can do whatever you want.

If you are in USA then there is one IMAM who conducts interfaith marriage for muslims (including women). His name is khaleel mohammed, professor of San Diego university. Just do a google search, you will find his contact information. He is good in responding.

asalaamalykum. sisters who think it is ok to marry non muslim let them. why force them to do other wise it is there choice ie like it is the choice of a muslim to follow 100% or 94% its simple the ground rules are there dont get it tiwisted folks there is only one way your choice.

be warned we have and enemy much clever than a woman who marrys a non muslim this is the usual side track wake up sisters and brotheres this is a secular debate

the Shaytan and his minions are “whisperers”, who whispers into the hearts of men and women, urging them to commit sin let alone this subject those with iman stay away

Warning: Satan’s Minion Whispering:
Yes, @Agent no 9. Let them choose….but let’s warn them that they will burn in hell for it! o0o0o0o
[Shhhh! Let’s scare Muslim women into believing they will burn in hell eternally for NOT marrying the fantastical Muslim men of this world. If they dare be so disobedient as to choose a non-Muslim for the sake of love, support, companionship, and children, then let them CHOOSE (choose hell, of course).
We both know that only Muslim men are good.]

Carin…I know right, if they believed in Allah, the One Most Just, Most Gracious, Most Powerful God, they would realize that being labeled a “muslim” is not only Allah’s creations…Allah created everyone and only HE knows who will go to hell or heaven…I guess Allah is testing these people brains as well..not everyone was created with the beautiful knowledge and wisdom and Allah tests those people as well….How dare people think that women will burn in hell just for marrying another creation of God who could be a better husband, father and person in front of Allah. There are the unseen people, don’t forget. Not everything is visible.

Thats what I concluded, while trying to learn more of why we do what, but I wanted someone else to conclude this as well…But I want to do something for my parents, such as have an imam or someone scholarly or some support who they would trust more than random people..i also needed this kind of statement that most of what is done is cultural and not the only islamic way of doing things..thank you.

oh you disagree that there will be more women in hell than men? right. Have you read about the journey of Prophet pbuh toward heaven n hell. Shab-e-mairaj? I guess not; you were busy looking for a non-Muslim husband for you right?

I’m confused as hell. 1. The entire crux of your argument is based on one ambiguous scholar’s opinion who you regard as the minority 2. You say it’s fine to marry people of the book: Jews and Christians, since they are not polytheists, but this is no longer the case with the vast majority of (Western) ahl-e-Kitab.

Sarah, 1) the “entire crux of my argument” is based on my thoughts and research thus far, as I see blatant flaws in the traditional argument that is put forward by most imams. Thankfully, God gave me a brain and I try to use it from time to time rather than following whatever or whoever is regarded as popular opinion. 2) Hopefully, you notice that this simply a blog debate reflecting the conversations that occur routinely in our communities. As such we each presented a side within a limited word-space. This conversation is not all encompassing, nor is it meant to be. After all the sides were presented I even added an addendum in the comments to briefly address points I thought did not get presented at all, but are examples of points to consider. In case you were not able to find this in all the comments, I am reposting it here:

“This is only the beginning of a discussion. By no means is my piece a be-all and end-all answer. AltMuslimah (www.altmuslimah.com/a/b/rsa/3948/) picked up this debate as well. So I took the liberty of adding an Addendum there, which I thought to add here. Hopefully, that alleviates some concerns, and further demonstrates the need of in-depth scholarship to bring clarity in this area.

***Addendum***

Salaam all,

I wanted to follow up with a mini-addendum to this article. Since the original post on http://www.goatmilkblog.com I received much feedback, mostly positive, some negative. I want to address some concerns brought up and point out other areas of research that should be explored.

First off, some have expressed concern about discussions of such topics by non-scholars and the risk of readers accepting an opinion as if it were a fatwa. I think each of us adequately expressed that we are not scholars. We were each exploring the development of one side of the issue and were limited in our word count. The debate style is simply to facilitate discussions that are already occurring in the community. Articles such as these are not meant to provide one-stop-shop answers or fatwas, we can only give readers a reference points to explore. It is up to the reader to investigate the issue further and make a well-informed decision on his or her life choices.

Second, should any of the readers be interested in exploring this issue further, I would like to briefly touch upon a few points that have not been brought up by the other debaters here:

1) We are taught that men and women are equal but have “rights” over one another when pertaining to certain issues. Thus, the underlying issue here, in my opinion, is whether women and men have equal rights when it comes to their options for marriage. For those who accept that they do not, the discussion is moot. They believe that there is an inherent inequality in marriageable options for men and women, and that this notion is founded in Islamic text. Those who do not agree with the aforementioned premise are trying to understand the accepted Islamic tradition of this inequality, why it exists and whether it is an accurate interpretation of Islamic text.

2) There are, however, some who argue that the equality does exist, just not as traditionally accepted. They define this equality by prohibiting both men and women from marrying non-Muslims (kitabiyya included). This is for several reasons, such as: a) the definition of kitabiyya only pertains to Muslims, b) even if kitabiyya did pertain to Jews and Christians before, the deviation of these groups from certain key Islamic principles make this definition invalid today.

3) One other point of contention is Surah Al-Mumtahanah (http://www.quran.com/60). This Surah is often misread/misinterpreted when used on a variety of issues. The reason for this may be due to lack of Arabic skills and background knowledge. Still, the gravest error made with this Surah and many others is taking ayats or parts of ayats while disregarding the rest. For example, 60:1 revealed during a time of particular tribulation, tells believers not to take Allah’s enemies (disbelievers) as allies at a time of war. 60:7, then states that Allah might turn your enemies into your allies, and that He is most forgiving and merciful. So one can see how 60:1, if taken out of context, can ignore the true message at hand.

60:10 is sometimes used in the marrying/not marrying non-Muslims debate as evidence that women may not marry non-Muslims, Jews and Christians included. The ayat speaks of those converting during this time of contention for the community (at times this would be in secret or at a risk to them). It says that when these believing women come to the believing men, the believing men should not send them back to the disbelievers as they are no longer regarded as lawful for them (in marriage). Those arguing against women marrying non-Muslims, stop here. But this seems to be a major error, as the ayat continues and states that the believing men should not hold on to their marriage bonds with disbelieving women.

So several questions arise from ayat 60:10 – a) which disbelievers are being spoken of and under what context? b) how does this ayat contribute to the debate over the meaning of kitabiyya? c) if this ayat can be used to demonstrate that women are explicitly prohibited from being married to any non-Muslims, then does this not explicitly prohibit men from doing the same, thus, demonstrating equality?

I explored the popular argument in my original article and the loopholes in this reasoning because I felt it was a good start to such a discussion. I would also like to point out that we, as Muslims, are instructed as to the qualities to seek prospective spouses. These qualities are expected, ideally, to be inherent in a Muslim. Therefore, as I mentioned in my article, it seems quite clear for many reasons why marrying a non-Muslim, even a Christian or Jew, would be strongly discouraged for women or men. But the popular argument as to why it is prohibited for women does not provide an adequate explanation. This means, if there is a “yes” or “no” answer on this issue, the opinion has not been fully formulated for the masses. It is understandable that the popular opinion was accepted by all schools of thought, because men often traveled and needed more marriageable options, while women did not, and by living primarily in Muslim societies did not find a need to explore the issue further. This is simply not the case for many young Muslims today living in non-Muslim societies. This is forcing many to act as they deem appropriate despite the confusion.

Ultimately, this all demonstrates a need for further scholarly exploration of all aspects of the issues to determine a) whether Muslim women and men have equal options when it comes to choosing a partner in marriage and b) what these options are and the standards accepted.

Insha’Allah, that clears up some confusion as to the nature and purpose of this discussion and provides some relevant reference points for exploration. As always, Allah knows best.”

All scriptural writings are allegorically, analogically and symbolically written to define the Nature of the Human Consciousness.

This Quranic Verse is to be translated as follows:

Quran 2:221: A maidservant who has faith is better than an unbeliever,
even though you may be strongly attracted to her. Women, don’t marry
men who make partners with God until they believe. A servant who has
faith is better than an unbeliever, even though you may be fond of
him. The influence of unbelievers will lead you to the Fire, while God
calls you to the Garden and to his own Forgiveness. He makes His
verses clear to people so that they may bear them in mind.

A maidservant is a slave of desires. Faith is having experiential knowledge of Truth. An unbeliever refers to the EGO..(One who is Ignorant of Truth Love and Beauty-Psychologically blind to reality). Making partners with God means to worship that which is materialistic..Money, Careers or acts that will initiate Pride, Greed and Jealousy. Association with Selfish Desires (EGO -unbeliever) will lead you to the Fire. The Fire is Pain and Suffering (Hell). While God calls you to the Garden…the Garden refers to your inner divinity..Your Monad-House of bliss, where justice and mercy resides)..where you seek your forgiveness – detachment from Selfish desires. Bear them in mind means to be conscious of your thoughts from moment to moment.

“A maidservant who has faith is better than an unbeliever!”
Once again a proof of the intolerance,arrogance and narrowmindness of Islam.
Why always that distinction between the good and bad ones, we Muslims are the good ones and the other the unbelievers are the bad ones, why the distinction between Muslims and non Muslims?
All humans are equal.
Allah, the Christian God, Appollo, Amon Re are all human inventions: they simply doesn’t exist.
Be free, think free!Think and decide for yourself.
Take your own decissions, do not rely on texts of Medieval books or “interpretations” of Priests or Imams.

JJ Rousseau, what Astarte was trying to say, is that there is an allegorical meaning behind it. “a maidservant” is actually meaning a slave of desires..could be a christian, muslim, any faithful person who controls their desires and is a good servant in this world. Maybe some people believe nothing exists..but there are unknown things we don’t know, which even those ppl who believe in nothing must accept, we don’t have knowledge of everything. What astarte is trying to say, is that muslims have taken one sentence without analyzing with the wonderful brain that we were given and misrepresented it. All humans are equal. And it even states in the Quran not to make distinctions…but humans have a lot of errors in making their own opinions and only relying on their own brains and not seeing the vast world…

So JJ, what I am trying to say is, people are narrow minded, arrogant, intolerant..not Islam. If you read the Quran and analyze, it is not unfair, very open to all of mankind. Yet people don’t interpret the Arabic properly. Its like the literature in English. There are allegorical parts..Not everything in this world is visible. Can you see the cells in your body? Can you see the DNA? How did you know that there are other galaxies? Acceptance of the unknown, or that we don’t know and see everything is the most important thing. Its the basics.

“O you who believe! Stand out firmly for Allah as witnesses to fair dealings and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just, that is next to piety. Fear Allah, indeed Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do.” (5:8) At the end, I think you should watch out for yourself my dear just righteous brother ;)

But it was not Allah ‘ s purpose that your faith should be in vain , for Allah is full of pity , Merciful toward mankind . 2.143

Allah says: “And when you speak, then be just, though it be (against) a relative.” [Sûrah al-An`âm: 152]

It is wrong for a person to accuse anyone else of something wrong except with full knowledge and tangible proof. It is forbidden to base a judgment against someone on hearsay, conjecture or suspicion.

Allah says: “O you who believe! If a wicked person comes to you with any news, ascertain the truth, lest you harm people unwittingly, and afterwards become full of repentance for what you have done.” [Sûrah al-Hujurât: 5]

He also warns us: “O you who believe! Shun much suspicion; for lo! some suspicion is a sin.” [Sûrah al-Hujurât: 12]

[49:11]”O ye who believe! let not one people deride another people, who may be better than they, nor let women deride other women, who may be better than they. And defame not your own people, nor call one another by nicknames. Bad indeed is evil reputation after the profession of belief; and those who repent not are the wrongdoers.”

Nisa {4:58}
“Verily, Allaah commands that you should render back the trusts to those, to whom they are due; and that when you judge between men, you judge with justice. Verily, how excellent is the teaching which He gives you.”
etc…

Also brother, I believe you should read….remember IQRA?? with wisdom, with understanding of Allah’s capabilities in this world…Are u saying Noah was not muslim because he didnt say shahada? really….define muslim please. do you know the purpose of faith and religion? And lets not be a disgrace to the beauty of representing our last prophet who was so tolerant.

Dear Islam,
Do you also have own thoughts, own ideas about what is going on in the world?
For every problem you apparently have to look in a kind of receipt book to know what to do or to ask and pay for fatwa’s or counseling.
It is clear you are a second hand thinker without any personal approach.
Be free! Think for yourself!

Since when is referencing/quoting other texts considered intellectual slavery?? Supporting another text or agreeing with someone’s precedent is not equal to narrow-mindedness, nor is repeatedly bleating “Be free! Be free!” some sort of mark for intellectual freedom…

Would you call Einstein an “un-free thinker” for agreeing with much of Kepler’s previous work?

You are so correct when I e-mail my mosque BOD about donot trust the FBI I sent attachment of news article of the illegaql action of the FBI as report in the media. Newton phyis wasnot that far off on dealing with earthly speed like no where near the speed of light.

JJ you have a good mentality, but I respectfully disagree and do think for myself, I just have to have those receipts for the kind of people who show me receipts or even do not find any receipts but that only act as a parrot in matters that should require more justice. don’t you think since so many do that and call it the faith of islam when in fact it is more their opinion?

Ladies and gentlemen it is not up to us to make halal what Allah SWT has made haram to our messenger (PERIOD). These are not OUR rules, or OUR PROPHET’s rules, these are Allah SWT ruels. There were instances where the Prophet SA acted in such a manner in which Allah SWT actually forbade him to act a certain way (ie praying for non-Muslims salvation AFTER they died).

Last but not least the emotional and psychological justification I see that a lot of women pass is “but Muslim men date outside their religion” Would you jump off a bridge if I did as well? I think not. I personally don’t think Muslim men are, in contemporary society where Christans ascribe partners to God and Jews have bi’dah, allowed to marry non-Muslim women of ahl al Kitab. But realistically look at the Muslim men who do so, they find them in an unIslamic way, have a physical relationship before marriage 99% of the time (whereas in the ‘typical’ view of such a relationship the Christian/Jewish woman MUST BE chaste…yeah right not in a post 60s America) and you know what usually happens in the end? IT DOESN’T WORK. The couple splits over religious differences or doesn’t raise kids with any sort of solid identity.

Find a good Muslim professional mid stream guy. I always hear particularly desi and Arab women complain that there aren’t enough of them (I’m half Egyptian and Half Pakistani Pashtun)…ladies there are plenty and more out there than there are women, you just need to find them in your social circle. A part of the reason why the above marriages fail while Muslim marriages succeed is becasue the expectations of mannerisms and upbringing are excellent among Muslim couples (ie lowering your gaze, not having to worry about a cheating spouse in a good Muslim-Muslim marriage, the expectation that the man is the provider and the woman is a nurturer)

Don’t limit yourself and build up the stereotypical image of ‘the Muslim man’ it’s ridiculous and not true. Muslims are spread across the globe and are diverse as any other society. What if I had said “Come to my house for some Muslim food” you would find it ridiculous, I do too.

GJ, I’m sorry to inform you, the quran does not clearly state that its forbidden for muslim men to marry non muslim women. If you read clearly, it says about polytheists. why would Allah tell all mankind (the Quran is for mankind) to not marry another of His creations? When clearly, there are many issues you are not aware of. You cannot make haram up. Only Allah is the most knowledgeable, the most Just.

First muslim are just plain people who have the same weakness as other people. Last week our BOD at the mosque make than ruleing that ban childern from playing in the mosque prayer room, it was widely misunderstood and citizise. First we have than Islamist school from pre k to 2nd grade childern needed to run and make noise after being still and quit in the class room for two hours. The BOD are forming than study comittee to hand it. Adult forget they where kids who ran around makeing noise when they where young thenself. I havenot forgotten that as I than 61 year old. The muslim childern are the future of the muslim community which mean we needed to tolance some running around and noise from childern.

Good luck:) Eid Mubarak as well.
May I know what have you discussed with this man in prior to marriage regarding your children and religion sister? I am just curious if I find any sister in such situation; so I can give her advice. You don’t have to go in details just a few pointer if you could. I am sure sister that you definitely must be taking some precautionary measures since you are going against the stream and taking a step which is neither allowed nor prohibited in Quran. How is your family toward you close and extended one after you have decided to take this decision?

Good luck and Eid Mubarak sister:)
May I know what have you discussed with this man in prior to marriage regarding your children and religion sister? I am just curious if I find any sister in such situation; so I can give her advice. You don’t have to go in details just a few pointer if you could. I am sure sister that you definitely must be taking some precautionary measures since you are going against the stream and taking a step which is neither allowed nor prohibited in Quran. How is your family toward you close and extended one after you have decided to take this decision?

In my own opinion and the way I have taken..is to show him what my religion is, show him all the things that God has taught for all mankind and why..now he really appreciates the religion and sees the benefits and knows me as a person who wants my children in a good path, worshipping God in good ways. He appreciates it and with time I have told him its important that I bring them up muslim bc as a mother, caretaker its important for me to instill those important things. He agrees and he wants the same for his children, someone who teaches the right way and he supports the rituals although he is more spiritual and wants to teach the morals and values which are the same. It takes time. First one has to trust you, to do that, they observe your actions, behaviour and beliefs. If they trust you, its fine. Thats why its important for us women to be good examples of true Islam, what God would want for all time, all people. Peace!

Jazak Allah for the reply sister. I hope you enjoyed you Eid sister and where did you celebrate; I mean which country?
Subhan Allah, here I asked you for advice yesterday so that if in case i have to help another sister. We received a question from an Arab sister who go married to a non-Muslim (now claims to be Musliim) US born man in US. She asked for advice as he is not practising and only converted for the purppose of marrying her.
I am glad that you are taking all the right steps:). Sister! if he finds Islam to be the right religion then why doesn’t he convert; sure it will take time but don’t you think that it will be worth it. Since, only problem here is about religion; so you can teach him more and wait for him to convert. I am glad about what you have discussed with him regarding children upbringing masha Allah.
Also, like I asked before what is the reaction of your parents, siblings, friends and distant family members. How is the behaviour of people around you; if you live in a Muslim populated area/country (I guess you live in US). Also sister, did you try to marry a Muslim man again (as I read in your above comments that you married twice but both marriage failed for some reason and they were both Muslims). Were any of the Muslim man not interested or was it your own choice to marry non-Muslim for some other reasons (which if you could explain would be great).
Looking forward to your respone insha Allah:)

Yes, it takes time to convert someone who knows the basics of Islam and agree but he doesnt see reasons to have to convert since I am the first muslim he knows and he agrees with my faith and the beliefs and since he has the same, he feels we are the same, but doesnt understand why there are so many rules. He feels like he follows the true guidance and does the right things and doesnt understand why people have to convert if they are following the same paths. Humans are a bit complicated. Esp because everyone grew up in a different country. It takes a lot of strength and belief that its necessary to convert esp when you have been living in a mainly nonmuslim world where even if you are nonmuslim, you are one of the best in character, good will, keeping God and faith in all you do..then its hard for that person to believe that he has to convert to be better. Maybe with time, he has only just started to read the Quran in his spare time, hopefully by the end of reading it he will wish to. Even if he doesnt, I see that he’s one in true faith spiritually and practically so I know Allah will be most just to him. I live in a mainly non muslim country and have tried to talk with many muslim men but most of them I wanted to pursue are judgemental or the ones that like me are lacking in many aspects of a husband and father in knowing how to be simple, humble, protective, trustworthy, God loving/fearing, overall in many aspects. The core of a person is more important than the surface. Wasalam, peace.

In addition to that, I am starting to teach him, I just know it will take a lot of observance and Insha Allah I believe with all my heart none of my life will have gone to vain. That when you take steps towards Allah, He comes close to you and helps you. So, I will not give up, just will do so with patience and harmony.

Thanks for your reply sister. I am glad that you are being patient and waiting for him to convert and then marry him:). My prayers are with you and other sisters who are either single, divorced, separated or in same predicament as yours. Sister, you didn’t reply to one of my question that I put forward in both my comments which was; how is the behaviour of your parents, siblings, distant family and others around you who are Muslims? How many other sisters you know in family, friends or in a network of people who have married outside. I think your relatives should support you. I personally think that if a man is willing to learn and then convert to Islam and wants to marry a Muslimah then Muslim MEN around that Muslimah as relatives such as brothers, uncles, cousins or father should help that man to learn. In turn they are helping their daughter:). May Allah (swt) keep you steadfast on your deen and mould this man’s heart toward Islam so that my sister can marry him and live happily ever after:). Also, sister if you come across any other sister who is going through similar experience please help her guide the man to Islam.

Brother, thank you for your kind words. My family and relatives and friends are supportive even though they are conservative. I believe they are because they have seen me go through tough times, they know my intentions were always to be Allah’s way and because they see the person I want to marry being such a great example of a believer, of what Allah wants from a muslim. I know many others that married outside, and since they are kind people, the network is very understanding. Only thing I don’t agree with, is its not fair for him to convert to Islam for the purpose of marriage. I would agree to marry someone first since we are on that path, to marry and that will, with time he will learn more and see on a daily basis since he supports my love of spirituality and to be in Allah’s way. Its not fair for him and Allah did say in the Quran that men can marry people of the book, if Allah would have thought its a problem, why would He say that in the first place. That requires us to make good judgement why He would allow that and what we women have to do if we are married to people of the book. Not only that, Allah mentions in the Quran many many times, the true path, the righteous is the one of Abraham..the Quran is for mankind..Allah is the Creator of all of mankind. I think every person has their own pace and way to Islam, remember, our prophet was not muslim at 5 or 10 yrs..even for him, the angel approached him at 40 yrs old. This is for those that have wisdom. Please do pray for us all..we are struggling to always do for Allah! wasalam peace!

Sister whatever I say is my personal opinion. You or any other is not being judged and neither am I stopping anyone or telling them that they are out of fold of Islam. I am not one for judging anyone so I hope our conversation remains civilised and respectful Insha Allah. So please read and forgive me if I have offended you.

Wow sister I am shocked. I was under the impression that you are waiting for brother to convert and then marry him. I understand that it’s common in US, UK, Canada and rest of Europe where a lot of inter-faith marriages are taking place but it’s not advisable at all. We don’t have to follow fatwas, Imam or any other thing; if we just think about our children then we will realise that how much we are losing; unless any Muslim (male or female) is OK to let their children choose their own religion or for that matter don’t follow any at all.
I completely understand when you say that “one shouldn’t convert for marriage purposes but such marriages are not allowed in Islam regardless of what Scholars, Mullahs or anyone says or make up from themselves (It’s clear in Quran; now if we twist and turn for our own benefit then we should worry more about our akhirah rather than what people are going to say). What guarantees such conversion after marriage.
“A Muslim girl was in a relationship with a non-Muslim Christian man who simply converted to marry her. After marriage; since this girl was practising to the fullest; he never stopped her but this in turn made him practising Christianity to it’s best. What do you think will happen sister? I personally know cases where a lot of Muslim girls are in such marriages with non-Muslim men who just converted (or in some cases these girl ran away from their parents to marry) for their own convenience. Point is that who they are deceiving? Who knows we go against Allah (swt) and just after some time we pass away. Life doesn’t have any guarantee; or is it?”
I would personally think that I have failed myself if my children don’t grow up as Muslims and it is not easy for either Muslim man or Muslim woman in interfaith marriage to bring them up Islamically especially living in non-Muslim lands. I will tell you sister that I was in a similar situation a while ago with a Christian girl; I was practising; we never kissed; never shook hands and she had clearly changed so much for me especially when I explained what Islam is all about. Believe me it’s too difficult to answer non-Muslim women especially when they see what is happening around the world to Muslim women; they think it’s Islam. We have so much understanding/common that it scares me sometimes to admit that how could a girl be so ideal that I feel like looking into a mirror. I don’t follow idealism/perfection etc etc because no one was/is or ever will be; beauty of humans is that they are imperfect and that’s what keeps them going. I simply didn’t consider her for marriage just based on the fact that she is not Muslim; we are still good friends. Who knows she may convert to Islam if I explain it to her more in detail:). A wife is not just wife; she is a companion who will help me better myself in deen and help me raise our children to become best Muslims and human beings. Have you ever came across the children growing up confused in such inter-faith marriages? May be a few of them become practising Muslim; most are either Athiest, Christians or don’t follow what they find is easy in any religion.
Also, it would be wrong to compare your man with Holy Prophet (PBUH) in the sense that it took time for him to practice Islam; that was divine my sister. Do you think sister that another revelation will come from Allah to guide this brother to Islam? Funny thing is that people start saying things like “but Prophet (PBUH) and Shahaba married people of book”. Simple answer is that Quran was revealed in parts and not everything was instantly made haram. For instance, spirits weren’t made haram straight away but after some time. Similarly, women were still bought and sold and were taken as concubines after Quran/Islam was revealed but then if was made unlawful but polygamy was made halal only to protect women not to marry young girls(I understand that that this institute is abused a lot; we can write pages and pages on that and yes men are to blame for all this).
Ideally men in your family as brothers, cousins, father, uncle should have taken the responsibility of teaching this brother about Islam which would have been a lot more effective alongside your help. I know a sister who was attracted to a non-Muslim man (don’t know that religion) and he liked her too; they started to get to know each other and decided to get married. When he popped the question; she said that I am Muslim and can’t marry anyone except Muslim man; only was we can marry is if you convert to Islam. Subhan Allah, he was true and sincere and said;
“I want to be honest with you that I will convert but I will convert only if Islam makes sense to me after my own reading not just to marry you.”
You see sister; had he been fake he would have said OK what’s harm in saying a few words but not believing them in heart and not following religion truly. Now brother of this sister is helping that man to study Islam and if he comes up with any question; he helps him understand by answering him to the best of his knowledge:).

SISTER PROBLEM IS THAT OUR SISTERS ARE LEFT VALNERABLE AND THESE SO CALLED SCHOLAR/MULLAH AND EVEN PARENTS DON’T HELP THEM AND PUSH TO COMMIT SINS. It hurts to the current state of Ummah and seeing these ignorant bastard doing nothing. Look at the divorce rate in Ummah; how difficult the whole process of marriage has been made. Our parents, and these so called religious scholars/Mullahs and Ulama should have gone extra mile to help the Ummah especially when living in West but they simply ignore because they are too busy fighting each other.

Also sister, I forgot to reply to your point you made such as;

“I live in a mainly non muslim country and have tried to talk with many muslim men but most of them I wanted to pursue are judgemental or the ones that like me are lacking in many aspects of a husband and father in knowing how to be simple, humble, protective, trustworthy, God loving/fearing, overall in many aspects. The core of a person is more important than the surface”.

I couldn’t agree more with what you said but question is that are all the Muslim husbands who are married to Muslim women are perfect. How many of them have you met in your life; how many Muslim women you know who are happy in their marriage? Besides, are non-Muslim men perfect? absolutely not. Men are men and women are women; culture, background, religion, society, status doesn’t matter. People change especially in marriage which is life long commitment and we wake up with same person everyday and share so much then it really becomes a test. LOVE DOESN’T CONQUER EVERYTHING ALWAYS SISTER. Here I am speaking as an observant not being a MUSLIM MAN DEFENDING THEM; only if you could believe me. Look at the family structure of West. What role non-Muslim parents are playing today as mother and father. Are you saying sister that their is no difference left in how Muslim couple bring up their children up as compared to non-Muslims. Sure things are not perfect but still things are not that bad and our family system is still way better then non-Muslims. It deteriorating and not improving but not at a level yet where we say Oh it doesn’t matter.
I wasn’t born here in the West Alhamdulliah but my parents instilled a lot of good moral values in me that I find it hard to find here. I didn’t know that men and women in general and a lot of Muslim among them have extra-marital affairs. Virginity is held so high in the society; girls are not considered suitable for marriage after a certain age or if they are divorced, annulled, separated or widowed then they are looked down upon. Off course, Muslim countries are not ideal but then these societies are not either.
I know a lot of guys who have same complain with sisters and I personally being single find them quite difficult to get along with but still I will marry a Muslim women even if she was MUSLIM BY NAME. Because, I know that a lot of Muslims men and women started practising well into their marriages.

Problem here I see is that we Muslims have started to say if, but, why, maybe stuff and want to change the teachings to fit our demands and needs whereas it was made clear by Holy Prophet (PBUH) in the last sermon that Islam has been completed. Inter-faith marriages don’t succeed mostly and to start with it’s not even sensible to be in one especially in non-Muslim lands. If you read the fatwa of the this ignorant so called scholar then you will realise that he hasn’t made it clear that if it’s HALAL or HARAM but he did agree that it’s MUKRUH for both MEN and women. Besides, what’s the point of such fatwa where every second line finishes with “ALLAH KNOWS BEST”. It’s whole point is to make Ummah more confused; this issue doesn’t even fall in grey area. It’s made clear in Quran; we don’t have to twist it or follow any fatwa whatsoever. Even the question of children’s custody if marriage fails is out of question; for any child both parents are important.

I hope you could understand what I meant sister without taking any offence or bashing me as judgemental. Sorry for long post.

Brother, salam to you as well. No worries, you havent said anything offensive at all, in fact I actually agree with all you have to say. I do believe its mukru as well, and I can see why. I agree many kids can be confused, and children can be misguided or on the wrong path, just like how I agree regardless of being married to a muslim or nonmuslim, either marriages can fail. I do agree there are more chances and higher risk being with a nonmuslim thats why I never thought of that in the first place all my years before. That doesnt mean, that no interfaith marriages succeed and no interfaith marriages have wonderful children who follow the right path. In fact I have seen what Allah has power to do over different situations, I have seen many muslims who follow the wrong way and don’t know the basics of what Allah asks us to strive for. What is the point in the fasting, the charity the prayer if the muslims don’t become better spiritually for Allah. Also, in my experiences, I have tried to find the root problems of marriages and of children. I have seen interfaith marriages that actually have succeeded bc both parents have the same goal, to raise their children with the right values, the true islamic values that apply to mankind in general. I have seen those kids to be so wonderful that gave me inspiration as somehow Allah has introduced me to a person with all the qualities I was looking for in a husband and father, as a muslim and I love that, and would never give that up for just a label. I want the core of the person to be muslim, to have the qualities that makes a spirit muslim. He is not ritualistic, he is spiritual and has been learning and agreeing with many things. It is only normal to have some fear to make a huge change ritualistically when He feels his beliefs are the same and only holds on to God, not to what people want. You are right, its not right to say words to become muslim for marriage, but its actually a good idea to say that I cannot marry someone unless they become muslim. But growing up in this culture, I know its unfair to portray the religion for mankind as something for certain people only. It should make sense to my fiance. Because even my friends have said that he has all the right qualities, he can completely go the right way as long as he’s not pressured and does it his own time but if he is pushed, I dont want him to turn away bc of people’s impatience. Maybe I am made differently, with more tolerance and feel guiding is a better way then setting restrictions and being more just with people since Allah loves those that are just, not those that oppress..but those that guide. So thats why I tell him I dont pressure him to be something, but I love for him to know and learn and strive for Allah. For me, I do not believe I cannot marry anyone except muslim, since its explicitly ok for men, and it makes sense that he is giving me all rights to raise my kids muslim and then I should show him fairness in our religion, in all I do that he should have no compusion in religion…that I should slowly guide with without pressuring religion on someone when none of my ex’s ever were pressured on anything and they got to live their life whether they prayed or not. but I do agree I only want to marry someone with the right beliefs and attitude for striving for Allah who gives me the motivation to raise my kids just as I wanted. The reason for me I dont feel its mukru, is only because I feel I am a witness of seeing what Allah showed me in my life and then all the important qualities I find in this ‘nonmuslim’ who is more like a muslim, has all the things from my heart that I asked Allah for that I couldnt explain in words to humans, and seems like with time he could convert but regardless has all the same beliefs..so for me, its my answer to my prayers from Allah in the goodness that he has and the striving he does in every aspect. I do agree with your opinions and they are very much valid. But in the end, the biggest lesson I learned, is none of us know the unseen, the things that I have witnessed in my life..so for every person, their decisions will be different based on circumstances. Allah is the only one with me through my life and at the end I know after taking time to know someone well and giving chances on many people, that this is right for me and its not fair for anyone else to judge except Allah on what is right. I cannot pretend and ignore what I see in him is what I want in my life. Hard for human beings to understand unless they have been in my shoes. Compassion is for all mankind, I am sure he and I can be rewarded if we always pray to Allah and have the right actions in life. Marriage is one action that is correct if we care for each other and try in the right path. At this point in my life, I don’t even know if I can have children so for me its more his companionship than anything else. Honestly, in the end, we try our best with our wisdom and always should ask Allah to guide us.

Sister Islam what more to say when you agree with whatever I said but still don’t see the point. Besides, to expect and seek Allah’s help/mercy/blessing we must follow his teachings first; taught to us by His beloved Prophet (PBUH) through Quran, Sunnah and Hadith. Your comparison never made sense to me and I can’t say that if there is anything left to explore or twist to fit our own needs. If you or miss Nadia think that you guys know more than what Allah (swt) or still can’t comprehend the reason for this prohibition for inter-faith marriages (men and women); especially in Non-Muslim lands than so be it. Go ahead and do as you please; I hope I don’t get branded here again as judgemental. And like I said before this world is nothing compared to the world we are promised in the hereafter; there may be people who whisper or say things open as in this article to stir up the things between Muslims for their own benefit but we should know what their purposes are. Last but not least sister have you read about Hazrat UMMA SULAIM.
Now please don’t think that I in anyway was trying to defend the actions of what Muslim men do. In fact their loss is greater if we weigh both sides.
May Allah (swt) help you understand his wisdom and follow his guidelines rather falling for the traps of Shaytan and his companions. (Amin)

Brother, I understand that maybe you have not interacted with many good nonmuslims, but how can you say there is ‘prohibition for inter-faith marriages (men and women)’ are you ready to take a stand on judgement on that in front of Allah. No where in the Quran does it prohibit it and this is the problem with the world today. No tolerance, no understanding. How about if you believed in Allah and all the prophets, the last day, angels and yet you did not know enough about another book and prophet. Do you think that if you are taking steps to learn without being pushed and you have decided to marry someone who is also a believer that Allah will prohibit you to marry that woman and learn more about the faith that is part of the same chain of what you believe? I do not understand why people have a problem, maybe they are unfamiliar with some people in the world. Not every nonmuslim lives and behaves wrongly, in fact my fiance actually lives in the right way, strives to be the best of humans, in such a humble and simple way just like of our last prophet expects us, better than many muslims. So between having the correct belief and correct actions/behaviour, why do people have such a problem? In fact the reason that I would like to marry him is because the world needs better examples of human beings, of muslims and he is a great example that I know Allah put in my path maybe to show many muslims to not judge by a color of his creations.

Sister Islam, Alhamdulliah I have had a lot more contact with non-Muslim than you can think and am still in contact with them since I work with most. Yes, they are not liars, cheats, hypocrites, don’t steal etc etc but this doesn’t mean that I should marry them or tell them to visit the mosque to lecture Muslims about all this. Do you think a person who does all that doesn’t know that it’s wrong or haram whether they are Muslims or non-Muslims? Like I said before that I was in your shoes when I liked a non-Muslim girl and once thought that she might be the one and started comtemplating a woman’s role as a mother and wife in a Muslim family. It was only then; I realised that a Muslim wife is better than a non-Muslim wife even if I have to compromise on a big chunk of qualities I am looking for in a woman to consider as wife.
When you say that if I stand whether there is a prohibition for inter-faith marriages then I must tell you sister that it’s in the same Holy Quran that I read over and over time (in fact some of those are quoted here by Miss NADIA). Yes, MEN ARE ALLOWED TO MARRY PEOPLE OF BOOK but it’s not for today due to a lot of modernisation or innovation in Toorah and Bible. Does that make sense to you and for Muslim women it neither approves nor does Quran dis-approve so, DECIDE FOR YOURSELF but it clearly stats that do not marry non-belivers (now you can choose what constitutes a non-believer EVEN WHEN IT’S CLEAR IN QURAN, HADITH AND SUNNAH). This definitely is the problem with the world when they try to interpret things their own way to make something halal.
Sister, all you have been telling me is that I AM JUDGEMENTAL but I was trying to understand that how you are going about all this and then saying that it’s OK in Islam. Yes, people as a whole are judgemental and that goes for everything not just inter-faith marriages. I have been mentioning from very start that you souldn’t bother about people what they say if you and people close to you are OK with your decision. ONLY CARE FOR ALLAH AND HIS COMMANDEMENTS.
You asked me; how about if I believed in Allah, all the Prophets, the last day, angels and did not know enough about another book and Prophets”. Well then, I will learn further and marry after I say my shahada and Insha Allah will make sure that I do it for Allah (swt) from my heart not to marry a Muslim.
Like I said before sister that I have enough contact with very good non-Muslims who are not into drugs, drinking, gambling, stealing, stealing and list goes on but I can do dawah to them only not marriage before them converting to the true religion. Again, you have brought comparison between Muslim and non-Muslim men; I can say the same for non-Muslim women as compared to Muslim women. Infact, that is the very reason a lot of Muslim brothers I know have been pushed and not either they are married to converts or marry from back home. And the ones far far away from their deen end-up marrying non-Muslim women whether they are chaste, of good character or not. It goes both ways dear sister; if brothers are not saints then sisters are not angels either; it’s debatable:).
Good luck with your life sister; I am sorry that I don’t agree with you when you say that you are marrying him just to set a good example for Muslim MEN.

There’s a number of people who say that Non Muslim men marrying Muslim women is prohibited due to patriachal reasons. So far from what I can see and appreciate very much about my religion I believe that is Islam is that 1. The Mother is at least 3 times important as the father 2. A number of our prophets have been brought up by single mothers 3. A marriage can only be given the go ahead with the permission of the bride 4. A Muslim woman does NOT have to change to a ‘married name’ 5. Muslim women have been given access to places of worship, education and employment and even leadership for 1400 years 6.I have never known a Hijab wearer to have an issue with their weight (ok that’s an opinion but how many anoerexic/bullimic Hijab sisters do you know are fretting over fake tans, extensions and eyelashes?) 7. Even if a muslim woman buys a house with her money, it’s HER house and her husband can bugger off and buy his own cos his name’s not on it (hence the pointlessness of a married name, teehee) 8. Men and Women in Islam are as equal as two teeth in a comb. 9. Some of the original Ummah rejoiced when they heard that the way to Islam was by being an obedient wife as they were not educated to do much else (hey early days, what can I say). Others basically kicked butt by collecting a third of the Prophet’s Hadeeths and bumping off enemies on the battlefield 10. The first Muslim was a businesswoman 15 years the Prophet’s senior (and also his wife, may Allah be pleased with her)

And people still think Islam is patriachal?

Something wrong with this picture here…

For the record I have attempted to get to know Muslim men before. after knowing a few who sponged off the family wealth instead of getting a job, one who got into polygamy by marrying a gold digger, one who beat up his girlfriend and started seeing other girls, one who thought it was okay to date and dump girls outside his race and religion because he was in the West, one who married twice then got divorced, one who dumped his wife with six kids and no maintenence money, one who converted just to marry a muslim woman only to make a shit husband, one who left his christian wife stuck with twin boys (they’re also Christian btw), one who married out of his race then started having girlfriends at the same time, one who married a wild Muslim party girl forcing, sorry, encouraging, her to wear Hijab, stay at home and be a good Muslim wife while he went to bars and got pissed on beer, one who went off the rails just because he didn’t have a Muslim male role model (rolls eyes) to the degree of physicvally assaulting his mother and taking drugs…..I kinda decided to just stick to men who did as they were told but still knew how to treat a woman like a lady. All have been none Muslim and are actually scared of the acceptance of the Muslim community and not vice versa. All have seen me pray. All have respected the fact that I don’t drink and have a seperate diet. All have not stopped me from practicing my faith-if there were any flaws or sins they were my own and it was from a lack of disclipline not lack of faith or knowledge of it. I made more effort and felt much prouder to be a Muslim with non Muslims compared to trying to intergrate to a community who would always label me as ‘that woman from a liberal country’ or as a ‘bad muslim’. So regardless of how you may think women of our twisted path may be, your rejection and the support from our Kufr pimps (well how else would you label an Unbeliever) has only made us more determined to follow Islam focussed on other cornerstones of the faith like charity, a successful career, a healthy lifestyle, an education and a MUSLIM upbringing for our children. Before you judge us-get to know us first.

I was with a Muslim girl for about a year. Everything was going good and I thought she was the one till she told me it would never work out because of her religion. I am christen, and she told me we would never be anything unless I converted. I’ve heard that if she told her parents she wanted to marry a guy that was not Muslim they would disown her…is this true being that her mother is very “old school”. She’s not really into guys from her culture being that all of her bf’s have bEen Christian. So I guess in the end she will have to marry a Muslim man eventually.

Dear Nick,
this so called “Muslim girl” just tries to have a hold on you by imposing her “religion” on you.
If you concede she is automaticly the boss in your so called mariage.
She clearly does not love you!
The best thing you can do is to forget that girl and to look for a nice girl with a good character who loves to live the real life and not does not dream about dead and afterlife as all those Muslims do.

Allah simply doesn’t exist.All we have is this life on Earth , make the best of it!

UPDATE!!!!! Kinda back with this girl, she tells me. She wants to be with my but I think its more of a phisical thing. She seems like she wants a relationship but last time we were together she said it would never work out because of her religon, I care about her very much and I would like to marry her but I don’t think its at all possable unless I convert witch I’m not willing to do….HELP!!!

JJ Roussean you are so wrong about that muslim girl. First Islam is base on family so she told him to convert before it went any futher like telling him after they where marry. You must be one of those hater of Islam that is alway attacking Islam and religion in general. Allah does exist.

hmm…you have misunderstood, the Qur’an gave Muslim men permission to marry people of the book, but however for example there are certain categories which have to be met, a Muslim man cannot marry someone who thinks that Jesus pbuh is god…rather he can marry women of the ‘original book’ not the distorted bible and torah of today. a person familiar with the previous scriptures in their original form will still hold the views and opinions of the Muslims who are familiar with Qur’an since all the scriptures were sent down by the one god (Allah). the original scripture…only four being named (there were also others) by Allah are zaboor, torah, ingil (bible), and Qur’an….all the previous original scriptures say to expect the last and final prophet of Allah, being Muhammad pbuh, and to follow him upon his arrival. thus being people of the book can be taken as wives since they are in a way ‘pre-muslims’…all the followers of the original books are Muslims, its just each time had different laws that Allah wished for them to follow, once Qur’an is revealed and they learn of it they are expected to follow it, as the time of a new revelation indicates that the old one is outdated…just like each prophet had his followers for that time. the Qur’an is here now so all other scriptures should not be followed as their time has expired. and anyway they have been lost as the languages of the past do not exist anymore unlike Qur’an which was revealed in Arabic and is preserved in Arabic and there is only one Qur’an unlike other scriptures which people have changed the meaning of e.g. in the bible Jesus pbuh says ‘my father is greater than i, my father is greater than all’…’i do not seek my will, but the will of my father’ ‘i of my own self can do nothing’…he is a messenger a prophet of god, not god and does not in the bible ever say out right …’i am god worship me’, rather he says things like ‘ i and my father are one, who ever has seen me has seen my father’ but he does not say he is god, he means him and god are one in mission, if you follow him you will see god. and anyway bible has tonnes of contradictions and there are loads of different versions of bible…meaning it has been changed etc by man.

also only Muslim men have been given this right as when a woman marries she moves into her husband’s home, so his and his family’s values are transferred to her, so a Muslim man will teach her about Islam etc. whereas if it were vice versa the Muslim man would be with a family who are not quite learned about Islam which may cause problem with retaining the correct faith etc.

that being said it does not mean that a Muslim man can go out and just get married to some next Jew or christian before they have reverted to Islam. people of the book…not people of the distorted bible and torah of today….hope i clarified some very important issues. what this sister did is haraam, point blank, end of story…according to Qur’an and sunnah…peace.

here here mslima well said. Next they will ‘debate’ the inheritance law. Omg then ‘debate’ soon about men sleeping with men, then of people of the book, then incest and lastly beastiality. There is a thin line between imaan and shirk. I would suggest that people dont ‘debate’ islam. If you dont like it, there is no compulsion. Leave. On judgement day you will have to answer. Its liike somebody doing something wrong then blaming shaytaan. So ‘debate/debait’ all you want just leave islam alone. Anyway my two cents. Divorce is quite high in the world. Ask anyone, friends come and go, family will always be there, why alienate your family for someone as the italian, ‘love me for me’ type. Remember they will not be happy for/with you till you follow their ways/beliefs. Anyone following any ‘people’ on the day of judgement will rise with them. Another point, you get black muslims indian muslims white muslims chinese muslims etc, there is no shortage of fulfilling your taste. So why take a risk? Hope i got my point through

BTW, if you all really studied the Quran, there is a place where it says men can marry people of the Book, jews christians. So then it says, men should not marry nonbelievers and women should not marry nonbelievers because its best for them. So does that mean men cannot marry ppl of the book? Think. There is a difference between nonbelievers and nonmuslims. The word for nonbelievers in arabic is not jews and christians. It is all dependent on the person’s beliefs.

Believing man for believing women only stop twisting word of the Quran
There is not brackets in Quran so we reject the Jew and christen part it is only in translation only by a man who is trying create Corruption on land simple not that hard

Haha, Allah (The One Creator of all of us) has proved you wrong and has proved me right..Everything went so smoothly. Everything. With time my husband has become a muslim. Now that he has read the Quran (on his own) an searched, he became muslim (one who submits to Allah) and I knew that anyone of any background would become muslim in Allah’s eyes if they follow the right path. Just if you are born muslim doesnt mean you live as a muslim. I know many muslims who do everything wrong, and you still think those are the believers? God made examples out of people, my situation has proved it, of marrying a nonmuslim who with time has ‘converted’ but his beliefs were always there of being a believer. So regardless if he was jew or christian (followers of Moses or Jesus), if they have the right beliefs and are presented with Islam, they usually turn to a muslim either by label or by heart. But God shows us that only with time and studying someone can do that, any time in their life and become more knowledgeable than a born muslim. Now read his book.

Your husband shouldn’t have to convert to be “excepted” by the family. If two people “love” eachother it shouldn’t matter about religon, its just a cruch, and a control or power trip thing. When he did convert he just let his guard down and gave in. If he didn’t convert he would never be excepted by the family, this is tottaly wrong! Sorry but people take religon to searesly. I think its wrong that somone has to change their religon just to be. “Excepted” to a family, and even if the family prob. Still never likes them if they weren’t born a musium.

I agree, he shouldnt be forced to, but he didnt accept it until he has been reading and researching on his own, with me helping researching the major religions and how it brings everything together..he didnt give in..he just really learned more than whats superficial. I give him more credit bc although muslims dont make sense in some things they say, he ignored that and learned what islam really teaches, not what muslims interpret without regard to humanity.

I am italian and white, my Sister married a black man, I know I’m talking about race here but should have somone told her not to marry him becaus he’s black? NO. Just like my ex told me “this will never work out because of my religon” because she Is musim. This is a bunch of bs, if you don’t love me for. Who I am, you can take a hike, I’m not going to change my religon (even though I’m not religuS) just to satify her family…..NO, its so dumb and if you think its not you need to get help, if people love eachother this shouldn’t matter. So muslim wemon go end up marrying a muslim man, not because they love them but because they are muslim, does this sound wright? I think noT. So for all those people that turn down love for religon, I hope. Your family is happy you didn’t marrie out of you religon,and insted of you being happy with somone you love.

Congratulations to you sister on your husband’s reversion to Islam:). May Allah (swt) bless you both in this life and in hereafter:). Though we are different in our views on current issue but you are still my sister in faith and I respect that. Only Allah (swt) knows the condition of our heart but I like to follow what is in black and white rather than trying to find the grey areas without being labelled as judgemental or passing judgements. As Quran states clearly who is believer and who isn’t; with whom we can/should marry and can’t/shouldn’t so their is not question of me or anyone issuing fatwas or judgements. So, best of luck with your life, may you find what you couldn’t in born Muslim men:) Amin.

Thank you brother, I respect that you follow what is black or white..but not everyone’s life is perfect and there are many people in grey situations..not because they want to be but because they are there, its life. I really believe there is a reason for everything and sometimes Allah wants a certain path for certain people. I believe strongly that my husband prayed strongly and has always been a believer so therefore Allah guided him to the clear path. Life has taught me not to judge by the cover, not to state we are knowledgeable of everything. Only Allah Almighty is the only one who knows all, we can only try. The truth is, we try but grey areas are a part of life..for example, I didnt want to put myself in bad situations years ago but somehow was put there even though I was a strong believer. I had strong faith and still believed there had to be a reason for it all..nothing goes in vain. Humbleness is expected from us. And that goes for all believers as well and thats why I jump on people who might want to judge others. What I find in my husband is the will to be a better person on a daily basis..something I havent found before and I appreciate that. Grateful for your words, thank you. Grateful to all the people who wish peace on others sincerely. Thanks.

Also, I believe as muslims we have a greater obligation in life..to portray the faith correctly and for others who need it..just like it is a struggle for non believers to realize there is a God and to worship Him will take you far, muslims have a struggle to be a good model for mankind (in a kind way not aggressive) bc if God is Most Just, we must think of how much dues we have.

wait a minute in islam ur not allowed to date
male or female so what is ur point
u just wanted to marry him simple just admit it
why do i have to run around preaching islam to every body while i could b donig something else
prophet moses people were muslims these people follow some body else

i just want to say that i was born and raised in NJ. my parents never taught me anything except for praying 5x daily, fasting and reading the quran. i never read the translation because i never had access to any, until 2 years into my marriage when a relative gave me one. I BASICALLY DID NOT KNOW ANYTHING. i think back now and find that i was a bad muslim example to others around. my parents never forced me to wear the hijab. i started wearing it on my own while i was in my sophmore year at college, influenced by my other muslim women.

my parents found a good muslim man for me to marry at a young age of 20. we were both virgins. he’s 6 years older than me. i wanted a divorce the first five years, i hated him that much after a few months. but now i think we are best together and i wouldn’t have had it any other way. i did not marry for love. i married for understanding and religion. he was not rich. we were both poor after leaving our parents. we both made from scratch and now working our way up. we were both immature and not religious. we are both much mature than we started out and are much more religion orientated i.e. trying to make our five prayers daily and enforcing the same in our children.

Hello All, Peace be always upon All. If The Creator is Pureness in Action or Love in Action, who is to judge the matters of the Heart?

If my non-Muslim intentions with an incredible young woman from KSA from whom I met playing UNO and what started as a hello, has not ended but gone 3+ yrs and strong all via txt, who is anyone to judge this pure intentions. And seriously what Westerner will chat 3+ yrs with a woman if is not via Pure Love and Intention? And obviously if the Muslim young woman has also enjoy thus far 3+ yrs most be for a reason. So what if she wants to fast, go fast, maybe I join you. So what if you wanna go pray, be my guest, pray for both of Us and the World. What if she wants to cover, hey tell me where I can buy “the sheets” as I jokingly tell her. If this is not Love then what is? You can also say this is a challenge of your faith, of course it is, Life is full of Tests, that’s the idea. Isn’t this a great way to put your faith on test and to see what are your true intentions regarding your beliefs and your understanding of Pure Thought and Intention? (Love)? I mean the name says it all… “In the name of Allah the Most Merciful, the Most Compassionate.” … if this Most Merciful and Compassionate Creator cannot or won’t grasp the Pure Love We feel for each other then this Creator is not the Creator. You can judge my heart and my intentions, of which I do not care, for ONLY the Creator and those whom The Creator wishes can see inside my Heart and know my true intentions her true intentions, our True Intentions.

I asked her today the the question of living together. It all boils down to a split heart between her Family and Me. She is willing to live with me abroad with a “yes” and at the same time she doesn’t want to leave her family (let them down or get kicked out of the community). Personally as I told her, I refuse to do anything without her family consent as I see no reason for her not be able to visit her family and have a loving relationship with Me . So I ask you all; what is wrong with this picture? Is the Heart wrong, can it be wrong? Thinking I guess the mind could, the emotions could, but not the Heart. I am convince the Heart is what Unites us with The Creation, hence the Creator and I am willing to put my own Life for Love, for I have nothing else to give but this; LOVE.

funny really if as muslim man i am not allowed to even look women(this goes for both muslim and non ), and as as muslims are not even allowed to date so what ur saying is out of the question
so what are u doing with a muslim?

anotherthing
u fasting for her
i do not know this how this works becasue i am fasting becasue of my lord
and we pray to our lord only no body else not us but the creater mate
u do not even know the basic what chance u got to live with her all ur life?

Well judging from the papers today, Huma Abedin’s relationship seems to already be going downhill, not to say the poor girls pregnant. Was it naivety, or professional progression that led her to marry her colleague, or did she feel that she was getting on a bit? I couldn’t hazard a guess.

I was always taught from a young age that love is often mixed up for lust. Lust should hardly ever come into a relationship, as it is often misleading. Lust often disuses people to make them look better than they really are for you. There are many attractive people out there, intelligent beyond your wildest dreams, show relentless attention / affection towards you, evoking feelings that you haven’t felt before, often leading to a series of heavy thinking and often depression. But in all fairness, that is not a relationship, biologically, as my fiance explains, it’s just a series of defensive neurological chemical substances and reactions that occur being released by your head, making you either succumb to the situation / relationship, or just push it away.
If all you feel is just a series of head numbing events that lock you in a vicious mental cycle that that’s not a prospective relationship, that’s adolescence darling. And of course if your a red blooded male like me, we can quiet often sense it, and take advantage of it. However it is maturity that prohibits me from diving into things like that head first, and also that constant ringing of mother shouting at me not to ruin another girls life, i have good parents others might not.

Relationship, is quiet often based on a whole conglomerate of things, such as, trust, working together, solving problems, finances, establishing healthy mindset, just to name a few. Me and my fiance, are currently getting our finances in order.

Finally, in regards to Huma Abedin’s relationship, they say love is blind, it seems it really is. No i mean it, it really is, her husband’s skirt colour, certainly is not the right shade for me. What do you think?

Interesting article, however I strongly disagree with her ideology because the following reasons
1) She seems to assume that people of the book are somehow immune from polytheism/shirk. She didn’t provide a single verse apart from 2.221 and 5.5 to support her case. She needs to re-read chapter 5 Surah Al Maidah and chapter 9 Surah Al Tubah.

Surely, they have disbelieved who say: “Allâh is the Messiah Īsā (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary).” But the Messiah Īsā(Jesus) said: “O Children of Israel! Worship Allâh, my Lord and your Lord.” Verily, whosoever sets up partners (in worship) with Allâh, then Allâh has forbidden Paradise to him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrong-doers) there are no helpers 5.72

Surely, disbelievers are those who said: “Allâh is the third of the three (in a Trinity).” But there is no llâh (god) (none who has the right to be worshipped) but One Ilâh (God -Allâh). And if they cease not from what they say, verily, a painful torment will befall on the disbelievers among them. 5.73

Allah(swt) has described those who believe that Jesus(pbuh) as god and the Trinity as disbelievers and have committed shirk(by worshiping Jesus pbuh).

In Chapter 9

And the Jews say: ‘Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allâh, and the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allâh. That is their saying with their mouths, resembling the saying of the those who disbelieved aforetime. Allâh’s Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth!9.30

They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allâh (by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allâh), and (they also took as their Lord) Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), while they (Jews and Christians) were commanded [in the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)) to worship none but One Ilâh (God – Allâh) Lâ ilâha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He). Praise and glory is to Him, (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).9.31

They (the disbelievers, the Jews and the Christians) want to extinguish Allâh’s Light (with which Muhammad SAW has been sent – Islâmic Monotheism) with their mouths, but Allâh will not allow except that His Light should be perfected even though the Kâfirûn (disbelievers) hate (it).9.32

From chapter 9 , Allah(swt) described those among the people of book who believe Jesus(pbuh) and Ezra as sons of God as disbelievers. They have also committed shirk by following laws of their Rabbis and Priests.

In my opinion , verse 2.221 stills applies to the people of the book. Unless the author or supporters of her argument can provide evidence from the Quran which suggests people of the book are not polytheists.

Other verses that should be taken into considerations 5.51 and 9.23

O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Auliyâ’ (*friends, protectors, helpers), they are but Auliyâ’ of each other. And if any amongst you takes them (as Auliyâ’), then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allâh guides not those people who are the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrong-doers and unjust).
5.51

If Muslim women were allowed to “marry” men from people of the book , wouldn’t that make their husbands as Auliya( Guardians/protectors)? And by doing so , Muslim women would be going against the laws of Allah(swt) be among the Zalimun?

I believe the following verse ( 9.23) should be the deal breaker to those who still believe its okay to marry men from people of the book.

O you who believe! Take not for Auliyâ’ (supporters and helpers) your fathers and your brothers if they prefer disbelief to Belief. And whoever of you does so, then he is one of the Zâlimûn (wrong-doers)9.23

From this verse , Allah(swt) commanded us if our Father/brothers decide to follow another religion other than Islamic Monotheism then we should not consider them as Auliyah. And if we do that , then we are among the Zalimun. So by having a Jewish/Christian man as a husband who does not believe in the shahada , or associates partners Allah(swt) , he will also be the Wali of her children. If the children were raised as Muslims in this “marriage” and consider their father as their Wali, then they maybe categorised as among the Zalimun. But Allah knows best because its not their fault that their mother made a bad choice.

Musa, actually from that analysis you are correct. I am not biased, so I will admit you have good points that people should keep in mind. But the only problem is when we categorize all christians/jews to be believing that way. There are many many christians who are just born christian, but in their heart believe in only one God and don’t practice their faith as they were taught. But it takes wisdom and sight to see into the soul of a person and to see the sincerty. I ended up marrying one such person because on the outside though he claimed to be christian, his beliefs were muslim, monotheistic and when he learned about islam, which cannot be done in a day..he actually converted as a muslim..but that takes time and patience from our muslim community. Its up to each individual who they marry, thats not our business, God gave us free will and He will judge us with His infinite knowledge. But it is important for all things to be considered and its our job to give dawah in the best way that Allah will be pleased with us. We are not allowed to make religion compulsory for anyone..but to teach the belief with compassion is more effective than the harsh way many people approach. Salam.

Good day sister Islam.
Congratulations on marrying a revert to Islam, mashalla!!.

I should have made myself more clear in my previous comment that not all people of the book commit some form of shirk. For example I heard that Unitarian Christians don’t believe that Jesus(pbuh) is son of God or the Trinity, but I am not too sure. There are some verses which support this argument.

Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans [before Prophet Muhammad] – those [among them] who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness – will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve2.62

And indeed, among the People of the Scripture are those who believe in Allah and what was revealed to you and what was revealed to them, [being] humbly submissive to Allah . They do not exchange the verses of Allah for a small price. Those will have their reward with their Lord. Indeed, Allah is swift in account.3.199

But lets be realistic, the majority of Christians these days[even if they are not practicing] still believe that Jesus(pbuh) is son of God and the Trinity. While some do have monotheistic believes or believe that the Bible is too distorted.

I don’t know the methods you used to revert your husband to Islam but I wouldn’t recommend for a Muslim sister to try and “convert” the guy all by herself. Because he could convert for the sake of marriage and not for Allah(swt). Rather the Muslim woman male relatives and reliable Imam should teach the guy about Islam based on the Quran and the Sunnah. After reasonable amount of time, if the guy accepts Islam then Alhamdulliah. If he rejects Islam and still believes that Jesus(pbuh) is son of God and only obtain salvation by believing in him etc, then the guy should accept the fact the marriage is invalid and it will just be fornication.

Even though we have free will to marry who ever we want , we should keep in mind that prophet Mohmmed (pbuh) said that marriage is the completion of the second half of our Iman/faith. So we should carefully choose someone who brings closer to Allah(swt) and the other way around. And also remember that this life is a test and we should always conscious about the decisions we make and the likely consequences in the hereafter.

Every soul will taste death, and you will only be given your [full] compensation on the Day of Resurrection. So he who is drawn away from the Fire and admitted to Paradise has attained [his desire]. And what is the life of this world except the enjoyment of delusion3.185

Regardless of my opinion stated above , I think in 10-15 years time this kind of interfaith marriage will become more common where I live( small town in Australia) and in the West in genera :( , because role of Muslim women is changing and the reasons used by scholars to prohibit such kinds of marriages are becoming outdated . However the strength of one’s Iman/faith , personal experience and how Muslim women perceive Muslim men should be main factors that will lead to a personal choice of marriage. Inshalla it will be the right decision.

Actually, there is nothing that seems to prohibit it. And furthermore, if the girl is Muslim, and the guy is a Christian or is Jewish, and they agree from before getting married to raise the kids Muslim, then what’s wrong with it. FYI- there are plenty of “Muslim” men who don’t give women any rights so the argument that anyone other than a Muslim man won’t give the Muslim women her rights is ridiculous. In addition, since kids spend most of their time with their mom, the argument that it’s okay for men to marry Christian or Jewish women because their kids will take after their dad’s religion is also invalid.

It’s a myth that muslim females are not marrying non-muslim men. It’s very common in states of former USSR that girls born in muslim families married non-muslim men. I know several cases also in Finland, Sweden and Norway were somaligirls have married local non-muslim men.Emmanuel Todd also shows in Le destin des immigrés that the rate of mixed marriages for Algerian women grew from 6.2 per cent to 27.5 per cent between 1975 and 1990. For Moroccan women it increased from 4 per cent to 13 per cent. In the areas where most Muslims live, individual values are emerging today in a strong way alongside consumer society. Witness the growth of mixed marriages, including those of immigrant women, the problems of the Muslim associations, weakened parental authority and the very few religion-based schools.

As an Atheist i can say its a question of power , money , open mindedness , close mindedness and of love as a whole , Well, God , as we say , We argue about something in general we don’t really know much about ourselves , Just because our forefathers and people before that laid a set of rules to guide us in our life , It doesn’t mean we have to follow it forever , What about before Islam and Christianity ?
People still lived under their own and Queen such as Cleopatra and Nefertetti were great rulers , Women can know and assume high position,they can also decide for themselves . And people lived and married freely before Islam , at the end ,Every person is truely un religious , Religion is like a passing breeze and they change and evolve with Time.
As for the question at hand , What do you think is the physical difference between a muslim man and a non – muslim man ? Its in the law ,just a law laid by Quran .
Why didn’t Quran lay down its law in Jesus;s time ? or in that of Egyptian Empire , or that of the greeks or Roman ? Why was the law like that just in the time of Mahummad in Arabia ? Why did God choose only that time and that place ?
Law is a subject , it is supposed to Evolve . Law grows as humanity grows , Law changes as humanity changes , We have a whole lot ahead of us , So why not look ahead ? Why do you think most of the people winning Nobel prizes , making great inventions were not muslim ?
What does following anything blindly ever get people ? What do you think the Kaa-ba is ? Its the part of a meteor , It came from space ? Up in the sky ,there is no God , Its space and we all know that ,we just never think of our world , our universe , our Earth , or even our bodies or even nature ,We never Think for ourselves , we never investigate everything , We just believe because is taught or because everyone does.
All humans are equal regardless if religion or race , Remember that , So is marriage .
If i go and marry a muslim girl today , Will god kill me ? No, nothing will happen , Being scared of Afterlife is like being scared of the time before you were born . Life is what we make of it . Learn And Educate people , and celebrate Christmas,Deepawali, Guru parav and Id ,you can be an atheist and still celebrate and still have morality . im a human

The problem I have with this entire debate is this. Muslim parents immigrate to non-muslim countries. They encourage their daughters to get educated. All fine and dandy. We are independent, financially secure, good girls, etc. But when it comes to marriage, we are out of luck. How on earth are we supposed to find a muslim man in a non-muslim country? Hello, heard of the word “minority”?? Try shopping for mangoes in a meat market — ain’t gonna find them.

So if the years go by and in our 40s the nice muslim girls find a nice nonmuslim but believing man to marry – who get’s the blame? The parents who put us in this situation while maintaining their own safe and secure bubble? The “community” that did not lift a fingernail to help us muslim girls who were not “fair, slim and lovely”?

I find it very difficult to believe that God would not be merciful in this situation. I just find it very difficult to believe that. Do the empirical study folks. The number of never-married muslim women age 35+ far exceeds the number of never-married nonmuslim women of the same age group in the general population. The same statistics do not hold true for muslim men.

Yes, than you so much for this comment. This is what I have wanted to say, I couldnt have wrote it better.
I live in north America in a city where Arabs are non exsitant, let alone muslims. I am going to keep on living in this counrty and maybe this city for at least 5,6 next years. So how am I supposed to meet this good msulim guy where there are no muslim people there ? I can only meet white Christian guys, so how can I get married ? shold I just stay single for the rest of my life ? What if the Chrisitan guy encourages me to be a good pracicant muslim, respects me more than anyone else on earth, is willing to let me teach our kids to be good muslims, why am I forbidden to marry this kind of guy then ? I dont understand, I just can not beleive that this is haram, I’m sorry I just am not able to beleive it’s forbidden.

Man of the Book, don’t be at a loss. We were in your shoes..and we are married and have a wonderful life together..better than we could make ourselves, God made it the best. The Quran does not forbid muslim women to marry ‘non muslim’ men..it says non believers. If you believe the Quran is divine, you have realized that there couldnt be such a book in arabic with so much information that human beings didnt know at the time. That the similar information presented in aramaic and hebrew came at a time in arabic which is miraculously possible bc there was no technology. You then could probably realize that if its divine, there is a God who is the beginning and the end, who is all knowing..you then can probably accept what basic islam is about, and unfortunately shahada must be said, the point being there is no God but one God and when Muhammad came with the message, he was not son of god or anything is but a messenger. Once u say shahada, you have the title as a believer, even though seems like you already are. I know this is sad that people have made it like this, but revere God in your heart and do some research and you can find the peace that you are wanting. Good luck! for more info, contact me at yahoo17ster@gmail.com

J.J., just wondering..how do you not believe in God, have you seen the birth of babies..do you see when the rain comes down how it is life is provided to us bc of it. The Earth has everything in balance so we can live, if it went out of sync, we would not be alive…have you nothing inside of you that doesnt say, you cannot create the world..so there could be something more powerful than u that created you..just a power, without a face? and if so, being disrespectful and arrogant may not help you when you are powerless? Just sayin kiddo.. ;)

Hey!
It is clear from what stands in the Quran, that both muslim men and women cannot marry people who belive in several gods, for example: Hindus.
But lets honest here, in India muslim still marry hindu women! And do they get critezised? No!
Its accepted, because hes a man.

But when a muslim lady marries a man whos not muslim, he can be a jew, christian or “hindu” og simply just an atheist. And people go all crasy! She isnt considered a good lady anymore.

Stop this hipocrisy.

Im a muslim myself. And to be honest, it doesnt say anything in the Quran about this issue:
Muslim women+ non-muslim. So how can Ulama forbid this?

Another thing that bothers me, is that people here say, well its because the kids follow the father.
Well in reality this is not true!
Ive seen a few examples of this kind of intermarrige, and the kids turn up muslim.
But most of them follow the culture of the mother, som even say (ironicly) im half “muslim”.

This is because the muslim men who marry outside their faith, dont really care about teaching Islam.
They just go with the flow, but they seem to care when the kid is a teenager and then its to late to make ur kid “muslim”.

And fine it says in the Quran, muslim men can marry christian/jewish women.
But in reality they marry agnostic or atheist women. Women who dont follow their religion.
The true jewish woman and christian, they marry somebody of their own!

ofcourse it can happen, but its rare. They marry “unbelivers”, and yet muslim men dont get rumors and pointing fingers at them. But if a muslim lady did this, she wouldnt get the same treatment.

I think that you should marry somebdy who has the same religion as you, but if its true LOVE, then you cant just let it go?…

PS: Just stop critezing the muslim women, look at the men, im very tired of theese dobble standers.

The Quran (ie: G-d) does not outright forbid a muslim woman from marrying a “person of the book.”
It was the Islamic jurists over a millenia ago that decided it was unfavourable for a muslim woman to marry a non-muslim based on the patriarichal realities of the day. Society is not the same as it was back in early Islamic times, and the evolution of islamic law is fundamental to our jurisprudence.

Here’s what I think: If a woman is convinced by the laws set out by early islamic jurists (that such a union is forbidden) then she should not get married to a non-muslim. If however, she believes that the quran has allowed her this flexibility, then she should marry whom she pleases. She will have to face G-d and answer for her actions either way.

Early Islamic Arabia (even current Arabia, for that matter), was a male-dominated society. So, It should come as no surprise that the all-male jurists created a law to maintain control over their women’s lives.

Placing a more restrictive ruling for women on who they could choose as thier spouse, was and continues to be, just another way for the muslim men to uphold thier archaic mentalities of gender superiority.

i m(surojit- hooghly) a hindu man. i love a muslim girl(babli-birbhum). she also loves me very much. the only burden of our relation is her mother & father. they are dead against of this relationship. they r blackmailing her in the name of islam by saying that they will commit to sucide if she(my love) ahed further. we both r crying now.we both r not well right now.we also have a pious physical relationship. but still my love is afraid of leaving house for her parents. can anybody say is it correct or religion is bigger than a true love.religion is for mankind, mankind is not for religion. m i correct? we both from socalled cultural state, west bengal

surojit, maybe you can tell them you want to learn about islam..one step closer? unfortunately that area of the world it is almost impossible otherwise to marry between the religions. sorry for you, pray that there is help from a Higher Power..

Masha Allah brother guesst,
First of all, discontinue your relationship with this girl (even if it isn’t physical one) and repent and study Islam by seeking the help through Mosques, Islamic Centres and online resource. Once you become Muslim iA; then approach this sister’s parents in a humble way for her hand in marriage. If their is no one to act as your wali, then you can approach your local imam to act as wali. You can have them removed if you can bear the pain but it is not a big issue because whatever you did before becoming Muslim will be wiped off of slate iA (by the will of Allah s.w.t; the Merciful and Almighty). May Allah (swt) help you through with your conversion and also throughout your life and bless you both.

this is an intriguing blog post. it left me with a thought and I could play with that thought as you gave me ideas. Thank you. Sometimes I think the religion is too misogynistic that it made us women .. feel seconded? is that the correct term??

i’m a muslim woman myself and i’m open to dating men with different religions. in my country though (i must not state where) a muslim marriage (just muslim) will not be legalized if one of the partners is of different religion. there are cases where a muslim citizen marries another with a different faith but they do so in the neighbouring countries where it is legal. sometimes the justification of the legal system is pretty unfair but love is blind and as humans, we all are. i don’t think religion is the barrier. if your faith is strong enough, why worry?

Hey, at the end of the day, its all voice down to your own decision/s . Be it about the faith,believe etc..
What ever your decision is yours. IF its bad, its yours, if its good its yours too..
Islam is a beautiful religion and i have every single believe that other religions are too good and beautiful .
There is no religion that condamns others. its all up to you on how YOU interpreted them.
What i can say is the world will be a better place if we all respects each others more and not be either racist or stereo-typing on one issue.
Be nice to everyone, smile and love everyone.. Marry the person you love and like. Because at the end of the day, its because of the Fruit of good and bad who make us behaving this way.. after all, we all are family from different parents and time.

I m hindu but i don’t believe that hindu men can’t marry muslim women.Bcse hindu & muslim were of same country they r only seperated by land not frm our heart,i like all religion and rspct their culture.

This thread doesn’t help me, I am not a Christian or a Jew. My family are Buddhists and the country over here, people see each other as a person, not by religion. I myself doesn’t care who or what religion that person is, but I know the Muslims care. This thread is too American oriented, and I’m not an American.

if you muslim and you understand islam you never ever marry non muslim man and women if he or she 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 money he or she is not muslim atfirst you read kuran and shohee hadit both women and man both are read and understand ALLAHO SUBHANO TALA SAID ABOUT MUSLIM AND NON MUSLIM AND ALSO SAID THATS CULTURE AND BEHABER WRITHS WOMEN AND MAN BOTH AREE IS NTY MUSLIM MAN AND WOMEN CONFUSED YOU ASKED ME I CAN TRY TO ANSWERER I AM UNMARRIED 42 YEARS OLD MANY WOMEN THEY ARE ARE NON MUSLIM AND HER PROPERTIS AND ALL SIDE APRIENCE IS SO GOOD THATS I CAN NOT DISCRIB ITS BUT YEAT I CAN NOT MARRY HER BECAUSS OF SHE IS NON MUSLIM contuct me if any guy if he or she out of muslim culture and muslim rulse he or she must be non muslim shahinislamkhan26@gmail.com shahin islam khan

And do not marry the idolatresses until they believe, and certainly a believing maid is better than an idolatress woman, even though she should please you; and do not give (believing women) in marriage to idolaters until they believe, and certainly a believing servant is better than an idolater, even though he should please you; these invite to the fire, and Allah invites to the garden and to forgiveness by His will, and makes clear His communications to men, that they may be mindful.”

Why should anybody have to marry only a particular person?
Ladies and Gentlemen, we ARE the universe… check it out one day…

Don’t spend it following something that will give you nothing but a delusional path towards nothingness.

Or do. If that is what you have chosen to do. That will always be your choice, in life.

But don’t any of you dare to try and control someone else’s life; that is the illusion of a heirarchal cult, upon which i am observing the very real delusional aspects of on this blog…

The Quran says a lot of things. So does the Bible. So does my text book, for my physics class. At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is what you DO with that knowledge you’ve learned.

You can learn from it, you can ignore it, and you can also add things to your knowledge base of that subject – that’s the magic of it being a book.

It’s a bunch of letters… just letters… for people who can read… In all those three books i mentioned above.

As an adult, make a descision whether or not to realise that no-one is in control of your happiness but YOU.

Anyone who tries to take that away from you is a criminal, and the real perpetrator of ‘Allah’ – however you personally define him, or god… or jesus… it doesn’t matter who. Because at the end of the day, it reflects on YOU.

Have the strength to believe in yourself. Your ENTIRE FAMILY may say tell you what your role is in life, but the reality is, you can do whatever the hell you want. Those descisions are going to reflect back onto you, of course, but it all depends who you choose to associate yourself with – and who you want to be.

I can easily see someone labelling me as anti-quran, or muslim, or whatever here. But the reality is, the way some religions are talking about anyone else NOT associated with the Quran on this blog, is to be honest very scary, and is evidently being sourced from an environment much too controlling – and to be sincere slightly sociopathic.

Respect others, but first and foremost, respect yourself – and don’t ever let anyone take that away from you.
…ANYone.

maybe we should all be concerned about being the best possible human we can be rather than disputing over what is permissible and what isn’t. i personally believe if you love someone for who they are and if they make you a better person in this world and bring you closer to God why not marry them. i dont think Allah would banish you to the firey pits of hell just because you found someone who makes you whole.
overall may God have mercy on us all.

The Quran specifically prohibits all Muslims (men and women) from marrying polytheists, idol-worshippers, and athiests. It gives permission to Muslim men to marry women who are the People of the Book (Christians and Jews), however it does not deny that right to women . The Quran does specifically prohibit women from marrying polytheists, idol-worshippers, and athiests, but it doesn’t specifically prohibt them from marrying Christians and Jews.

Now, I’m not an expert on Islam nor am I an expert of the Quran, but no one has ever given me a verse that explicitly states that Muslim women can’t marry Christians/Jews. They always give me verses that say that Muslim women can’t marry polytheists, etc. Some people argue that because Christians associate Jesus and the Virgin Mary with God , or say that Jesus is the son of God and Mary the Mother, then that makes them polytheists and Muslim women can’t marry Christians for this reason. But if a person is to use that reasoning and say that Muslim women can’t marry Christians because they associate Jesus with God, then Muslim MEN also cannot marry Christian women.

Beautifully said. This is very correct. The only thing left to realize is not all people born and labeled as christians truly believe what they are taught to believe. For example, before my husband became muslim, he was christian, but did not believe that. It didnt make sense to him but he lived in a society and country that is 99% christian. He knew nothing else. I was the first muslim he met and he was very curious as to my beliefs. He realized he believed exactly the same with the exception that he didnt know who Muhammad was. He might have been labeled christian, but that doesnt give any human being the right to tell me not to marry someone because he had a christian label or upbringing when his soul was in the correct way. Problem is, humans create rules..God tries to guide people. There is a difference for those who have wisdom and know the difference.

Iam a muslim woman, met a man who is non muslim non of us wants to convert to the other’s religion! I have searched so many blogs and i have come to the conclusion i cant marry this guy! The thing is this guy loves me in a way no man has ever loved me. He is so kind, respectful, honest etc! He is the most decent guy i have met! I have dated loads of muslim men bt non of them has ever inpressed! They have all let me down in one way or another! I know the Quran preaches patience as its the most important element of faith! I dont know when to give up as am almost 34 and have prayed for 8 yrs for a decent muslim guy! Am so depressed i dont know…

well i am a teenager of the age of 18 years old born in guyana south america i recently got involved with a muslim girl at my high school by recently i mean we have been dating for about a year. she told me what could happen if her family found out and i was willing to deal with it im a christian going to church every sunday. well recently her parent found out and pulled her out of school and and said it could not happen me and the girl are willing to make it work she was contacting me sercretly after they told her we are not allowed to speak or see each other. she is scared that they will take her back to palestine and marry her off this is a load crap a person should be able to marry who ever they want she turns 18 in a couple of months and i am not sure we to do we were planning on marrying and everything the whole 9 yards but now her family has found out and intervened what should i do and what can i do

i consider converting but if i do it would be for the wrong reason i would be changing just for her also if any of you say we are too young you are incorrect ive been through alot of trouble just to speak to her lately but im going to get her back and no one can stop me

Jesse, best is to do research on the faith, not what ppl think is the religion..its pretty simple..if u believe in one God and believe in all the messengers like Noah and Abraham…time and time again God sent messengers for one purpose..u will see you have always believed the same. Christianity, Judaism, Islam are all almost exact. So, if you are respectful, kind, spiritual and show that you can be a great caretaker, I’m sure her parents will accept you if you exclaim you are a believer (muslim means one that submits to God, which I’m sure u do)…good luck and remember nothing comes by forcing and those that do that are ignorant, whether forcing anything, religion or even a marriage..everything comes to u if you put wisdom and effort!

I am a 53 year old Muslm woman. I came to North America at the age of 6 and grew up in a major city. I have lived in North America for 47 years now. I am university educated. I have been divorced for over 20 years. In my 20’s (30 years ago) there were very few Muslim men who grew up in N.A. such as myself, in my age group. I was one of the oldest immigrant children. Many of the Muslim men I was introduced to were not socialized in the west as they grew up in other countries. They held attitudes and norms from various Muslim countries which did not agree with me.

I respected Islam and wished to marry within my faith at that age. My family did not allow me to marry a non-Muslim. I ended up marrying a Muslim man – whom I supported through his graduate degree. As the community was relatively new – very few Muslims were established and the usual “wife works to put her husband through school” ensued. My husband was violent towards me. After getting his degree and using my funds etc, my husband left me. I was 32 years old then. We did not have children.

I approached a number of imams in the city. None of them helped me. I asked for my rights under divorce, which they could not implement. I went to see a lawyer. The mahr payment is in a civil document. The imams could not enforce it. I had that amount written into a legal Separation Agreement and fortunately my then husband signed it voluntarily (he did not have to). I received payment eventually per court order. I really had no access to any of the rights I was entitled to in Islam. For half a year, my ex-husband said he may return or he may not. I did not even know what my status was and no one in the Muslim community did anything about this unfair circumstance. No one addressed it. They are good at piling on rules for women but not in helping those of us in crisis.

Of course one can argue that all of this is “unIslamic” – but many Muslim women who live in North America face this type of situation. We are told what are Islamic rights are suppose to be, but cannot implement them. We are left dealing with no support structures of any kind except our families. We are told we must only marry Muslim men, yet when these men misbehave, there is no recourse.

Further, we live in nuclear families and the influence of the extended family is not strong in North America. Many of the laws governing marriage and women in Islam are based on the perspective that there is a Muslim majority situation ruling the land and many of the networks in place can be applied. This is definitely not the case in North America. Women contribute to their household and are not necessarily supported here. Yet we are to abide by religious laws that assume we receive support. Good luck to that in this economy!

As Muslims clearly cannot provide the support and protection required for Muslim women living in the west then Muslim women should not be bound to live by rules that were constructed for a different set of circumstances. I mean no disrespect to the original laws however one has to look at the reality of what is and is not implemented. Asking women to live by certain rules when their rights exist only in books is extremely unfair. It does not take into account the reality of North American life and its challenges.

Although I am a fit, attractive, well spoken, educated professional with no children, the Muslim men in my age group (50s) seem to want to marry women decades younger. The older men are completely entrenched in their old world culture and I cannot relate to them. I have been on my own now for over 20 years (since the age of 32). I should have been allowed to marry a Christian or a Jew, especially after my divorce – a stigma amongst Muslims. I was barred from doing so. I have spent my 30s and 40s and now into my 50s alone. I have met a number of well educated Muslim women in their 40s who have never married due to the issue of meeting appropriate Muslim men in North America.

I assure you dear readers, that due to this problem – I hope to marry either a Christian or a Jewish man. I have already wasted over 20 years alone. This was not fair nor “Islamic” for any women. If the original laws of marriage were presented within the light of certain circumstances being in place (social, economic, political) and those circumstances are no longer applicable or in place in North America, then Muslim women should be able to marry good and decent men of The Book without criticism from other Muslims who apparently cannot provide one ounce of support for women who are into their 40s and 50s without a husband due to “rules”. How is this humane or natural?

Should such women be banned to a life of solitude due to lack of appropriate men (those not looking for North American citizenship or stuck in other cultural mindsets)? Should they just marry any Muslim man and face a life of unhappiness and dissatisfaction – just to be married? Did God actually intend this to be the end result of His laws? I think not, however this is what is being practised – and at great expense to a number of Muslim women. Lives ruined.

Think about it before you are tempted to quote laws and rules. How exactly are our North American Muslim communities addressing this problem? From what I have witnessed – very poorly, if at all. Let Muslim women marry non-Muslim men in peace.

Salaan Sister Sarah’s
As a 23 year old college graduate Muslim woman I must say your response was very uplifting. I am having a similar issue with the brothers of this day and age. They can not stand a woman making more money than them and they only want to marry 18 year olds from overseas. May God make it easy for you in your endeavors.
Amina

Amina: You are 30 years younger than me, yet you are experiencing the same issues now in 2012 that I had in 1982. Not only is it difficult to be introduced to Muslim men, but many of them are going overseas and returning with wives (usually directed by their parents who want total control over who their daughter-in-laws are going to be – meaning culture, dowries and family – especially for immigration of relatives). Where does that leave the Muslim women here? When will our Muslim men participate in solving this great problem (going on for decades) without chastising women for questioning it?

Reading this made me very, very sad. I am 41 and can relate to every word Sarah has said. I am well educated and born in Canada. I have a good career and I am independent. But all I ever wanted was to get married and have a family of my own. The obstacles were and remain endless. I am not gorgeous nor slim. But I am reasonably attractive and in shape. But the Pakistanis were never interested in me. My mother tried to introduce me to recent Pakistani immigrants as potential husbands, but I was never interested in men from my parents country. And I was not allowed to date of course. By age 30 everyone kind of assumed I would be single for life. Working was actively encouraged in my family. My brother married his white girlfriend to great fanfare by my parents.

So basically my parents immigrated here, and gave me no options at all to have a family of my own. I find non Muslim western culture very very focused on weddings and all they entail. They find me strange that I have lived my entire life alone, and never meet men. They think it s strange that it is due to my religion. I was different growing up, and as an adult I am forced to be different, too….lbecause of my religion and culture.

And I am angry, hurt and sad about it. I am lonely through no fault of my own. I wish to be loved, I wish to be taken care of, I wish to hold babies in my arms, I want to go out and do things with a companion. But the Muslim community and my Muslim family will never never lift a finger to help me, because in their religiosity I am worthless. I do not deserve any of the above.

I once, ONCE, met a nonmuslim man who fell in love with me but refused to convert. It broke my heart. He found someone else in a flash, but what did I get? Loneliness and a broken heart, and the knowledge that because I am a Muslim woman I can never have love, marriage, and children. Instead, I am forced to live by myself, take care of all my needs by myself, cry by myself, work very hard so that I am financially stable, never retire, and because my brothers got married and had children it is left to me to take care of my elderly parents.

Disheartened: Until many Muslims begin to respect women (as Islam dictates) and treat us like human beings – nothing will change. Your story in one I have heard over and over again. Have faith in God and make a life for yourself. He is the final judge and only He knows our struggles and intention. Don’t waste your life. The issues of culture, conversion, introductions, resources, gender are endless. I have personally wasted two decades and nothing has resulted. Find a good man and leave the rest to God.

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The Qur’an specifically states that it is permissible for a Muslim man to have sexual relations with a slave (whom his right hand possesses). He does not have to be married to her. It is deemed halal. There is much written about the legal status of any children which resulted from such unions. The arguement that slavery doesn’t exist now so this can be ignored is not the issue, but rather that such relationships outside of marriage were legally allowed to begin with for men.

Islam even allowed temporary marriage “Mut’aa” in its early years as Muslim men went off to war without their wives. These marriages were permitted to accomodate the men, and they were later dissolved. This arrangement has since been abrogated.

Yet Muslim women today cannot marry non-Muslim men under any circumstances. Surely in light of our existing challenges, accomodation can be made for women or is it for men only? A Muslim man can have sex with a woman who is not his wife, yet a Muslim woman cannot marry a non-Muslim man with honor. Something is wrong here.

Those 40, 50 years old Muslim women who are single thing they would have married non-Muslims. What abt those non-Muslim women who have 2/3 kids without even knowing father or who are divorced by their non-Muslim husbands a number of times? Now a days its great thing if marriage lasts for 5 years among non-Muslims in west. Grass is greener in other sides. Dont misguide people. This life is a test for Akhirah. Dont be quick to jump to hell fire.

To Azad Ali Shah – We are not discussing Non-Muslim women here. Muslim women are not responsible for the conduct of these other women or the men they associate with. The larger problem is that is is very difficult for Muslim women to find suitable husbands in the West. Any suggestion of marry non-Muslim men are met with highly negative responses. Your inability to see this issue by diverting it to what non-Muslim women are doing is also problematic and of no help to Muslim women.

I have no idea what you are talking about. My comments and Sarah’s comments have to do with the plight of Muslim women. If you wish to discuss the character of non Muslim women perhaps you should find another website.

Islam basis a great deal of emphasis on the care and welfare of women. Males are given twice a female’s inheritance as males are to use that extra resource to take care of female family members. Islam states that the vulnerable in society – the poor, the widows (husbandless) and orphans are to be taken care of. Yet today in North America (U.S. and Canada) many mature Muslim women cannot find suitable husbands. There are few or no systems in place for introductions and arranged marriages are not generally in favor. Most women come from immigrant families.

The networks, property holdings, family resources etc of their family’s countries of origin do not exist here. There is no “tribe” per se for women to be absorbed into (as was the case in early Islam). Has anyone thought about what happens to Muslim women who cannot marry in the West? What happens to her financially? What happens if she does not have the education or financially stability to see her into old age? What happens when fathers die, brothers do not exist or are not accessible? What happens when there is no or unsubstantial inheritance for her?

Given the absolute lack of support, these women should be able to make a life with Christian or Jewish men. They should be entitled to emotional, social and financial stability. While there are no guarantees – to condemn Muslim women who cannot find appropriate Muslim husbands due to age, cultural differences etc with Muslim men – is the height of injustice. This is a very real problem in North America and the numbers of single Muslim women are growing, especially past the age of 35.

We need to admit that many of the constructs in place to accomodate women during the time of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) definitely do not exist in North America now. Yet we expect Muslim women to live by the same rules as if the accomodations are in place. From an economic and sociological perspective – this is a disaster.

Muslims need to re-evaluate and reform some of our laws within the context of historicism. This would not necessarily negate the validity of the original laws as they made sense within the context “of that time”. However such laws are doing harm now (contrary to their intent) and resulting in Muslim women being alone, without a spouse and possibily in financial need. All of this is in direct opposition to what the spirit of Islam was intended to be.

It’s time to re-think all of this and have serious discussions and resolutions about the fate of many of our Muslim women. Islam’s strength in the past was its ability to adapt. Guidance in this life-altering matter is greatly needed.

It has been proven time and time again that a Muslim woman marrying a Muslim man does not necessarily ensure she will have access to all the rights she is entitled to. There is no way to implement this in North America. Reality check over theory may give some Muslim women a chance at life without threats from families, ostracism and atrocious name-calling from those who side with inapplicable laws over spirit and kindness.

This is a very real problem in North America and the numbers of single Muslim women are growing, especially past the age of 35.
——————————————————————————
Sarah,

What is the condition of unmarried non-Muslim women? Are there more number of unmarried Muslim women than unmarried non-Muslim women? Have non-Muslim women managed to find their husbands and remarried in their lives unlike Muslim women?

Azad: Many Muslim women do not resort to what non-Muslim women do. We do not date, we do not have multiple sexual partners. We do not meet men at dances etc. Non-Muslim women are not subject to the behavioral rules and limitations that Muslim women conform to. I am not sure what you are asking as one has nothing to do with the other. Why are you dwelling on non-Muslim women’s situation when the issue of what Muslim women face is a completely different story – which is my initial point.

You seem to be very focused on what non-Muslim women are doing. Why? Why don’t you read the Quran and salaat, and focus on Islam and Muslim women. Why do you care how non-Muslim women are raising their children? I find it extremely unusual that you are so focused on that question.

But to address your curiosity, yes, there are more Muslim women (especially Pakistani and Indian, and it’s a growing problem amongst Somali’s now too) over age 35 who are single never-married compared to the same cohort in the general population. In my own workplace, most of the girls get married by age 30-32. Then they have children. All my non Muslim university friends got married by age 32. All the people on my neighborhood are mon Muslim and married — there are no single older ladies living alone. Same with my parents’ neighborhood. Their neighbours’ daughters all got married after university.

The same pattern is not happening amongst Muslim-Pakistani and, like I said, Muslim-Somali girls.

Hindu, Chinese, Italian, sikh, black children of immigrants all get married.

Unmarried (single) women with children and unemployed are entitled to a host of Government benefits. This includes welfare payments, food stamps, medical assistance, education financing assistance/grants, and housing. Just check any of the government programs in place in both Canada and the U.S. for single mothers.

The moment they marry – benefits lost as their legal status changes. It’s in these women’s interest not to get married.

In Canada, a single mother of 3 kids under age 18, who does not have shared custody of her children (with the father), can easily get well over $1,000 per month in child benefits alone from the government. In addition, there is the “mother’s allowance” for her and welfare payments. Having more children moves her up in priority for subsidized housing. In the U.S. similar programs exist and vary by State.

In fact, single welfare mothers may net “more income monthly” than a number of their working female counterparts do after taxes. The government programs result in thousands of dollars worth of benefits. Having children with lovers and subjecting them to a welfare-lifestyle is not preferred by most people if given a choice.

Single Muslim women do not usually have children out of wedlock. We work honorably if we are able, pay a lot in taxes (as most citizens do), pay fully for housing and other expenses and are not subsidized by anyone.

Bad circumstances, such as not having a husband (insufficient child support from divorce as the former husband has a low income or due to death, abandonment or abuse) may force us to ask for some form of government assistance as income may be low.

This may result in our children potentially being raised in dangerous neighborhoods (due to lower costs) and exposed to unsavory elements of society. There are extreme difficulties for the mother in such an environment – not due to her own choice to have children out of wedlock (which she did NOT do) but from lack of support.

I felt the need to give a more forensic answer as the most obvious situations of North American life and its outcomes especially for women, are manifesting the oblivious nature of how some Muslims view the vast differences in our societies. This directly impacts Muslim women and the need to address our circumstances in proper perspective.

U both are trying to make an illegal things legal, waging war against Allah.
You people are portraying a social issue into a Muslim/islamic issue. See how many unmarried Muslim women in Saudi, Egypt, Morrocco,Jorday where men marry Muslim women only and sometimes 2/3 women and still so many unmarried women.

Allah clearly says a time will come when there will be 50:1 men women ratio.

Be patient and deal things in Islamic way. Ok. Even though Muslim women are allowed to marry non-Muslim men, still there will be millions of unmarried Muslim women/Non-Muslim women.

Let’s not go against the rule of Quran and hadith. We are nothing to wage war against Allah. Its just my suggestion but not forcing my opinion. There will be millions of unmarried women (irrespective of relgion) with time as islam predicted and we start seeing. There are 1 million unmarried non Muslim women in Russia in today’s date.

Azad: You have missed my point completely. The issue is no one of simply being married or not. It is one of choice. That in a situation where it is difficult for Muslim women to marry Muslim men, they should have the right to marry good non-Muslim men of The Book. This is not one of statistics and how many women are married vs not. I am questioning the basis of these rules for women and the circumstances under which they are applicable. This is a far greater issue than counting the number of brides.

Peace and Blessings
Azad Ali Shah I believe you misunderstand the problem the two sisters are addressing in this forum, the circumstance of nonmuslim women in the west and pregnancies out of wedlock have nothing to do with the trials Muslim women endure with the lack of available men in today’s society. Having 3/4 children by different men is clearly a choice of your own and makes me question the ethics of these nonmuslim women. The two muslims women on this forum are educated, intelligent, and to be honest awe inspiring. I feel for both of you sisters and I will keep you in my prayers. :)
Sister Sarah may I ask your opinion on something? Not that I ever would consider it simply because I am much too jealous, but what is your take on being a second wife. The older I get and having literally NO suitors come for me makes me anxious and my family jokes about becoming a second wife and it horrifies me, what do you think? Should I be more open minded? I just don’t feel I should even consider such a path. I would much rather be alone than share my husband, no matter how wonderful the other wife it.
Disheartened desi chick remain strong sister. I know it is cliché but circumstance can be much worse.

Amina: Thank you for understanding our position and its seriousness. I have a big problem with polygamy. While I cannot comment on circumstances in other countries and cultures, it has no place for a woman living in the west. Polygamy was to be the exception and not the norm. Even the Prophet (pbuh) had problems with his wives and jealousy. This is human nature. Think about it – would you really be comfortable knowing that on certain nights your husband is in bed with another woman? Marriage is complex and should be filled with love and understanding. It is difficult to carve this up amongst multiple people. This may have worked in the past under different historical circumstances but not in today’s day and age.

I strongly defend monogamy or to remain single. Ultimately you will never feel satisfied in a polygamous situation. It is out of the question for me and many others. It is also an issue of self respect. Why not have a chance at marrying a good Christian man or a Jewish man (people of The Book). Why subject yourself to second fiddle just to be with a Muslim man – that’s insane. There are many good and decent men out there who would greatly appreciate you as a wife. They just don’t come from Muslim families. They may possess many good character traits and under the current circumstances they should be considered. Put your open mindedness in this direction and salvage your life as best as you can.

The warped insistence of imposing inapplicable laws concerning Muslim women are ruining lives. It is unnatural and unhealthy. Many women are suffering from clinical depression due to their inability to find appropriate husbands in North America. All other doors are closed to them due to “religious” laws. This completely contradicts the Islamic spirit – which many forget in their rush to defend the indefensible.

As I have been divorced from a fairly young age and childless, I put my energy into my education and applying myself professionally. I improved myself – all the while waiting for a Muslim husband whom I knew would never materialize. I am still single at age 53 but fortunately independent. It’s time to find an appropriate husband and if he is not Muslim – that is between me and God. It is not for others to direct me to the express elevator down to hell. It is for God in His infinite mercy to decide our fates. We don’t need cruel attitudes from others who forget that Islam has a tradition of analysis and interpretation according to the times.

Respect your determination as a human being and make a life for yourself. Do not allow the dictates of others to put you in your grave alone and miserable. You are not guaranteed Jannat (heaven) just because you were deprived in this life by following laws constructed for a different era. Only God knows whom He will favor and it is not for others to interject. Islam has repeatedly made allowances according to circumstance. This was done by Jurists (see our long tradition of Fiqh). This growing issue of Muslim women and marriage needs to be examined.

Only the most insensitive will concur that a woman should be alone her whole life for the sake of rules. That defeats the intention of Islam. And when these women are in need – where is the Muslim community to help out? No where.

Sarah — I can’t find a decent man. I don’t go to bars, or anywhere else to meet a 40 something single. In fact there aren’t very many 40somethng singles out there. I try online dating sites, but most of the non Muslim professional men are not interested in me so they don’t respond to my email inquiries. The ones who ar interested are the guys on the fringe — the weirdos, the uneducated, the ones looking for hook ups, etc. This has been going on for years. I am 41 and I was 36 when I realized that I would be spending my life alone if I did not make efforts. I asked my mother to speak to my father and brothers but she refused. So I started going online (both Muslim and non Muslim sites) and I’ve been thoroughly disgusted. I did meet one man who was decent, kind and loving, but religion broke us apart. I was devastated and heartbroken. It’s been 2 years, an I’m still heartbroken, especially because I have no options left. He found someone a short while after I cut things off, and he’s now married. Whereas I spend my days alone. I come home from work and eat dinner alone, and the weekends are the hardest because I don’t have anyone to do things with. My Muslim family never put a premium on my happiness. I was expected to work and take care of my parents. The only people they would introduce me to are recent immigrants.

So while in theory I should go out and find someone decent, the reality there is no way for me to do that. I’ve been open to that for years but there has never been a man to cross my path (other than the one I let go 2 yrs ago). It is heartbreaking. At this age, to be completely alone and unloved. Last year I took the drastic step of getting my eggs frozen. It cost me $25,000 and endless needles and vaginal extraction which was very painful. I truly believed in my heart that God would reward me for my efforts and bring someone wonderful in my life. But I am jaded, broken, and alone. When I learned the other man had met someone else, I prayed for such a long time. I still do. But I feel that God has made my loneliness and isolation deeper, my wounds more infected, and all doors and windows have been closed. I have nothing to look forward to, nothing. This Ramadan, I don’t know what to pray for. I just don’t.

Yes but time does not wait for women. We want children. We want to be loved. What is Islam’s solution?
Are you able to even answer that question? All you seem to do is criticize and state “haraam haraam haraam”.

Disheartened: I am so saddened for you and others in your situtation. I think it is near impossible for you to find a Muslim husband. I am in the same boat except that after decades I have decided not to allow religion to destroy any chance at having a fulfilling life (I use the word religion and not faith). You lost that man two years ago due to religion. He has moved on and you are stuck. Your family and community are not helpful. It is difficult and there is no easy answer. If you had better opportunities when you were younger, your situation may have been better. As I have stated on other posts, the odds are stacked against Muslim women here. Why is no one recognizing this? Muslim men are given certain rights over women due to what they provide.

No one (except God) provides for me. I (like many other Muslim women) handle my own contracts, sort out complex taxation issues, buy/sell property. Earn my own living, pay bills, see to the care of my elderly parent (including paying caregivers), take care of business and look after my legal affairs. There is no male assisting me. Yet we are told whom we can and cannot marry as if we are 18 year old girls fully subject to male support.

I hope in time you will meet someone whom you can make a life with. You must not allow this depressing situation to destroy your health. I know it is difficult. I am looking outside the Muslim community and I have no idea when I will meet someone as well. May God assist us all.

This is a social issue. And it will happen. What I am saying is that it shudnt be considered as an exception among Muslims. I am sure ur statistics is wrong when u say all non-Muslim women are married by 32 and not like Muslim women. There are more unmarried non-Muslim women in world.

Soution is not so easy as more number of women are there in this world. U think allowing Muslim women to marry non-Muslim men will solve the problem. Will it really solve? Never.

I cant provide easy solution and u cant provide too. Only my suggestion (may be applicable for men too) is-

– to chose right partner at right time specially when women are at marrigiable age ..say within 26/27. Simply do any thing at right time.

– Keep the criteria not so high, not so high expection that may lead to reach 50 or remain as single for whole life but compromise lives with time. I see many women rejecting man due to richness/smartness criteria.

— Muslim men should not marry atheist who were born in so called christian/jews family but atheist in heart

— Not convert any christian/jews/Hindus for marraige, if they convert for faith then only Muslim men shuld marry them.

— When all options fail, Muslim rich men shuld be ready to marry more than 1 and women also should accept polygamy with time. But its seen as alien’s work but it will give dignity of being wife to many unmarried women/widows

It’s critical to note that the Muslim population in the United States is an incredibly small 0.8% and in Canada it is only less than 3% (of the general population). Of these tiny percentages, half are women and a substantial portion are children.

How many single Muslim men of marriagable age are available for Muslim women? Of these men, how many will marry non-Muslim women or are selective about their prospective wife’s cultural background? How many will agree to arranged marriages with women back in their families’ countries and not choose a wife already in North America? How many will return with wives half their age? Where does this leave other Muslim women here?

Above all, Muslim women in North America usually require introductions to suitable Muslim men by family or community members. What happens when those responsible for introductions do not have the required networks to do so (very much the case now)?

Many of us may go through our day, literally see hundreds, if not thousands of people in public – and not one of them may be Muslim. The issue of Muslim women not being able to meet and marry Muslim men in North America is a very real problem. The gross unfairness of social and religious constraints have resulted in many women who cannot marry.

There are very real problems associated with marrying Muslim men who have been “sponsored” to North America from other countries. Aside from vast cultural differences between women who grew up in the west and men who were raised in the east (compatiblity issue) – there are legal consequences such as men using women with citizenship to secure their future and entry in North America.

Also in Canada, there have been multiple cases of men who were sponsored by women (Muslim and non-Muslim women) for marriage. Upon receiving their permanent residency, these men abandoned their marriages. Legally, the sponsor (wife) is responsible, by law, for her husband’s debts (loans) and any debts incurred by him with the State. That is, if the husband takes any public funds (such as welfare) etc, the wife is responsible for paying the government back the “entire amount”.

There are some cases where the sponsored husband divorced his Canadian wife after receiving residency, re-married another woman, and the first wife is “still” responsible for his debts (for years) as she was the original sponsor.

Initially the time frame for this liability for women was 10 years (!) and it has now be reduced to 5 years. The government introduced this law as many men (of all backgrounds) were abusing the sponsorship system for their own advantages.

This is also a major concern for Muslim women who may consider marrying men who are non-citizens. There is no limit to the potential damage that a sponsored husband can do and his wife is legally responsible. It’s extremely difficult to meet Muslim men in North America, with the added liability of marrying foreign men. What a nightmare.

Please consider a more compassionate approach to this terrible circumstance for Muslim women and be aware of the real facts that we have to live with.

Sarah, you raise some very good points, points which I, too, have pondered over. But where do they get us, as Muslim women living in non Muslim countries? Let’s be honest: we have no options. Are you going to find a nice non Muslim man, agree to sleep with him, and then have a civil marriage ceremony? Will you condone pork in your house? Alcohol? For me, never. And I’ve been through this with nonmuslim man…imposing your Muslim values and lifestyle on a 40something or 50something nonmuslim man is a very tall order.

I think what causes me a lot of distress is that I have no options. My parents made me feel guilty at a young age if I did not cater to their every need; now that they are older it is worse. But I am not allowed to dream of a future where someone cares for ME. It’s the absence of a dream or vision for my future that distresses me. As a Muslim woman in the west, my inner desire to be loved and have a family of my own was thwarted at every step by my religious parents and the surrounding community. Islam is meant to be easy but the truth is it is very, ver difficult for women. Our opportunities for marriage and motherhood are almost nil, and our parents can do whatever they want. As Muslim women we have no means of financial support, no one to care for us if we are sick. If we are having a bad day or bad week or we are being harassed in the workplace, we have to stay quiet and instead make sure our parents are happy, comfortable, fed, etc.

And the minute my parents are gone, then what? I will be a spare part, nothing more. It’s all a waste.

The lack of understanding and sensitivity for this important issue has been dipicted in a small way in Azad’s responses. No offense to you Azad – but you have just demonstrated the cultural differences between some North American raised women such as myself and Disheartend Desi Chick and those who may reflect your (Azad’s) position. Yes, life is a test but the constant threat of hell fire is not going to give us a decent family life or a spouse, children etc. Islam was meant to give us a chance at a reasonable life and not one of solitude. Islamic jurists over time have defined and re-constructed many aspects of law. They were influenced by changing social, political and economics circumstances. Go back and read this history.

I am both financially and professionally comfortable. My concern is not just for myself but for the many Muslim women out their who may face great difficulty in the future alone. This has psychological, emotional and social implications. The Prophet (pbuh) had a heart for women. Too bad that some of our contemporary Muslim men sadly lack this empathy for their fellow Muslim sisters.

Given the current economic woes in the U.S. – which one of you men out there, filled with fire and brimstone, will take responsibility for Muslim women who were denied a chance a making a life with a non-Muslim men and may face being destitute or some other problem due to lack of security (an Islamic imperative)? Step up or help resolve this great problem facing so many Muslim women.

I never see you guys parallelly to those western life styled gals. I tried to show that its not Muslim specific issue but a social issue.

When I was asked for solution, I replied what I feel in best possible way. Where do u find injustice and insensitivity to Muslimah? Do u agree few points as solution I pointed? And what is ur solution for the problem?

Sometimes, we cant change the world and nature, we are forced to adapt as per situations. Wallah I see kafir women who accept polygamy. I have talked to many women in Tunisia where polygamy is banned, who cry to become second and even 3rd wife. (Dont think I love polygamy so much. Alhamdulillah I can marry 4 but mentally personally not ready, which I think its wrong somehow. I am living single at marriageable age).
I share ur pains and u also plz undestand the situation.

We think something is better but in fact Allah knows whats better.

But Allah knows better than we humans, we cant cross the limits he puts and make an illegal thing legal for this short life in this world.

Azad: I am sure you are well intentioned however your perpective is vastly different from how North Americans may view this. This is also part of the problem of why Muslim women here cannot find suitable husbands. It is attitudinal and cultural. Historically, many Muslim men in the past travelled to far lands and converted women there to marry. They would not have become Muslim otherwise. This has been the case for centuries. You state this should not occur.

Also, very very few North American Muslim women will accept polygamy. It is also against the law here. A second wife has no legal status or any rights to her husband’s property, pension or legal say. She will be considered a mistress – who wants that. We must respect the laws of the land as citizens.

Many women tried to marry in their 20s but it does not always happen. I was divorced young. I married a Muslm man, supported him as a student, lived a modest life (not after wealth). He put me in the hospital emergency ward twice due to his violence and then left me. I have been unable to marry since (for over 20 years) and it has cost me a chance at being a mother. What a terrible price to pay and no recourse with our imams. Meeting more mature Muslim men has become impossible and I am met with a barrage of complaints if I suggest marrying a man of The Book. As you can see all of this is quite unfair and in some cases tragic.

Many of the laws we have now were developed by scholars and not God. They used guiding principles however they were influenced by history and circumstance. Exact definitions of applicability is subjective. What is from God and what is from man? Even the various Schools of Thought within Islam varied greatly on a number of issues. There is still dispute over the wording of marriage rules for women. El Fadl the Islamic scholar has written about this. It is not so cut and dry.

Yes, it is a terrible price to pay. The lack of resource, the lack of options, is what causes me the most remorse, frustration and sadness. My father thinks its no big deal, as he relishes his time with his grandchildren from his sons. My mother is sad about it, but says that it is what it is and I have to live with it.

That is the supreme injustice — that single Muslim women have no way of looking for a Muslim man, and the so-called community and family don’t help us either.

It is injustice. Part of me refuses to accept the path my parents have laid out for me, but at the same time there are no other paths to take. I’m 41, I can still try to get pregnant if I found someone….but no one will help me, and of course I cannot date.

Disheartened: I absolutely feel for you. I know so many Muslim women in your situation. We should be permitted to many men of The Book due to lack of suitable Muslim options. We are not going to marry someone so he can get his Green Card. We are not going to marry someone who has no clue about North American perspectives, we are not going to bankroll someone who just got off the plane and is jobless.

We are not going to marry 70 year old men looking for a helper or maid, as few Muslim men understand the concept of marrying a “peer” in their own age group. We are sick of seeing middle-aged Muslim men returning to their home countries and bringing back 21 year old wives. As young adults many of us watched other young men in our communities go back to their countries to marry their cousins, thus satisfying the requirement of opening up immigration to North America for the extended family.

We have also watched many of our more successful Muslim men marry non-Muslim women as they had access to these women while we sat at home guarding our dignity under the watchful eye of families. End result – still single with obstructions against marrying Christians and Jews – all the while being told to live with basic rights deprivation (no home, family) to avoid hell fire. What a great picture this paints.

Azad: You stated that Allah knows best and we can’t cross the limits He puts. At last count – Limit for a Muslim man: four wives. Limit for a Muslim woman, especially over age 35 living in North America: zero husband. Welcome to Muslim math.

Let’s not try to make illegal a legal one …to suit our needs to meet the requirement of our nerves and heart. Its nothing new that islam doesnt allow men to marry atheist and idol worshippers and Muslimah are not allowed to marry any1 outside Islam followers. Lets not search Islamic scholar who speaks what I want and justify what I feel and like.

Azad: Why do you keep missing the point? This is not one of “our hearts” as if we are teenagers with rose colored glasses on. It is one of rights where Muslim women have a right to protection, to marital relations, to support, to children. One reason why polygamy continued in Islam was to accomodate widows who were left without husbands after wars. This was to ensure that all/most women had a home and not left destitute. We have a certain and growing situation in North America concerning marriage and women. It is not being addressed. Ignoring it as a “not allowed” perspective is causing more problems. If Islam went to great lengths to ensure women had their basic needs met, then why support the position that such women should have to do “without”? Where is the justice in this?

God never intended for Muslim women to be thrown to the dogs and left without partners. Islam was not constructed for this purpose and yet women are to accept this now? Who will take responsibility for single, elderly women without husbands, sons or income? There will be a substantial number of them in the near future. Is this the price to pay for religiousity? How will this help to champion the cause of Islam in the west? A generation of lost Muslim women – what a shame. This reminds me of the situation of Hindu widows who live shunned lives. Why are we creating this for our women just because they are in a situation in North America?

Salaam again sister Sarah. I am currently courting a young man who is not Muslim but he believes in one God he believes Jesus is NOT the son of God and he is a better person than many young Muslim men I meet today. My parents obviously do not approve but I really do not see any other option pertaining to my circumstance. I do not want to die alone nor grow old alone. Just like 98% of the world I want to be loved. May Allah guide me and protect me from doing wrong. Ameen.

Amina: Only God with His infinite mercy knows our situation, challenges and struggles. I hope your young man respects you, treats you with decency and supports you with love and care. Surah 29:46 says to address Christians and Jews and say that: we believe in what has been revealed unto us and revealed unto you. Our God and your God are one and unto Him we surrender.

This is also reflected in the Jewish “Sh’ma” which states: Hear O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is “One” (Hebrew: uchadh, Arabic: uhad).

The Prophet (pbuh) sent his delegation to Abyssinia (Ethiopia) as Muslims were being persecuted. The Christian king Nejash – after hearing Surah Maryam from the Qur’an said that he accepts it as being in line with his belief and allowed Muslims security to practice Islam there. This is documented.

God determined the status of the People of the Book – yet only Muslim men can marry them and not women. This is based on economic, political and patriarchal supremacy during past times – which does not exist now. That only Muslim men can provide the appropriate rights to Muslim women (certainly logical in the past) is not the case now. Just speak to any local iman and ask what he can implement. Not much if anything. Rights come with responsibility – if Muslims cannot fulfill their necessary responsibilities (religion-wise) toward fair treatment of women, especially in North America, then they cannot expect women to conduct themselves in a vacuum.

So my inbox blew up due to the discussion of the 2 wise women & I see some characteristics of a Muslim man which encourages me to NEVER convert to Islam no matter what circumstances. Despite his behaviors enrages me, but I’ll do my best to remain civil. I know many women who are non Muslims aren’t getting married or not married, it’s not because of religion, it’s because now they can look after themselves & needs no men to help them or its because their culture ALWAYS treats women horribly. I live near China, I can tell you many Chinese women doesn’t want to marry to Chinese men & many Chinese men has to resorted to online dating for non Chinese wives. The issue of unmarried Muslim women is something ENTIRELY different than that of unmarried non Muslim women.

So I have Muslim friends, all of which are women, they tell me all they can do is hope they will get a nice Muslim man as a husband. But why do Muslim men can do whatever they want while these women can only wait? Sorry, I’m an idol worshiper & I think this practice is unjust. No, I do not pray to idols, I live by the teachings & principles this religion offers, it teaches of tolerance & coexistent, it also teaches me not to believe until I put that thing to the test so I can accept that. I don’t care about who is what religion, that is irrelevant, but I am still human who can’t live idly by when people suffers. I also appear to live in a Muslim community & there’s a mosque near my house, correct me if I’m wrong, but I remembered Ramadan used to last only 3 days but they changed because of a war (I can’t remember the Arabic term, it was very echo) & marrying 4 wives was to solving problems with widows who lost their husbands in the war & to make sure someone is taking care of them. What happen to those fierce warriors, adaptive, faithful Muslims who fought against those heavily armed & armored barbarians of the north? I always side the Muslims when it comes to the Crusades, nothing can be more noble than defending your homes. Also, correct me if I’m wrong, but your prophet stated Muslim men MUST treat women like the most important, most valuable treasure? Why are you putting your women in cages? My heart goes out to unfortunate Muslim women, though I’ve been told Allah won’t listen to an idol worshiper like me, but that doesn’t mean I can wish the best luck to them. This thread said it is OK for Muslim women to marry Jewish people or Christians because you all are actually worshiping the same god. I am an idol worshiper, I don’t care of religion, my girlfriend is a Muslim, I told her I won’t convert but she’s not giving up yet, but that doesn’t mean I must outright reject her, nothing bad has happened, it doesn’t bother me that she can’t eat pork or has to pray or Ramadan, she said she likes me because I’m a good person & I don’t mind of her being a Muslim. But she’s not really happy with our relationship, why? Because she knows that her parents won’t be happy. I also know her parents won’t be happy but what should I do? Oh but I guess I have to break up with her because I won’t convert & because I worship idols isn’t it? Why would I even want to convert? Muslims always speaks of how infinite of mercy & forgiving Allah is, but Muslim men can’t even treat their women right & Muslim community accepts mistreat of women. I’m not going to hurt the mother of my children, that’s just disgusting & that’s a bad influence to my children as well. I don’t see why men should do that to women at all? In case you’re wondering, no, I’m not those chivalric guy who worship women, but I sees women as an equal human-being, they’re capable of feelings just like men do. Why are we hurting them? I also didn’t like Shari’a law for executing women for cheating on the men. My ex cheated on me & I didn’t kill her, what does killing solve anything? Sure, you’re definitely going to be angry but so what? Isn’t killing 1 of the worst sins a Muslim can commit? I’m pretty sure it is though, all of my Muslim friends told me that.

Muslim communities loves to shun their women far too much they forgot what actually matters, but lest you forget, Judaism & Christianity worships Allah, I’m pretty sure your prophet also said that. So is it possible for Muslim women to marry Christians or Jews? Yes, but what about idol worshipers like me? I guess they can’t doesn’t it?

Just for thought – Historically Muslims ruled vast empires or lived in substantial sized communities. For centuries, well before modern day nationalism, people identified themselves according to their religious group. Under Muslim rule minorities such as Christians and Jews were permitted to conduct themselves according to their own laws (family etc) as long as they did not interfere with the Muslim state (e.g. sedition).

The reason why Muslim women were not permitted to marry non-Muslims was based on the concern that she would be absorbed into the household of her non-Muslim husband, who lived within a different religious community. As each religious community had their own laws and traditions, a non-Muslim husband would not be able to provide his Muslim wife with her required rights under Islamic law. This made sense.

There were other issues such as in the case of divorce, Muslim children may remain with their mothers until the age of 7. After that age, they go into the custody of their Muslim fathers. The Islamic Schools of Thought vary on the age of the child, however at some point custody is transferred. These were real concerns for Muslim women if they married non-Muslim men (just as an example).

Forward now to 21st century North America. We do not live in religious communities. The only applicable law is the Judicial system of the land. Aside from conducting marriage ceremonies and life passages/rites according to our religious customs, the weight of Islamic law and its application (or any religion’s for that matter) does not exist. Marriages may only be performed by those licensed by the state to do so and must be registered in civil court for validity. The legal system is secular and holds everyone equal under the law. There is no special system according to one’s religious group.

An exception is the Jewish Bet-Din (Rabbinical court) which exists in a number of North American communities for dispute resolutions or arbitration, however participation in it is voluntary. Many of our Islamic laws may be deemed to be contrary to the existing justice system and therefore not applicable. No alternate court may contradict the law.

Further, we tend to live in nuclear families and women are not “absorbed” into their husband’s household. Married couples usually find an apartment or house/residence of their own without the presence of an extended family or they may temporarily live with parents until they are more financially secure and move out.

This is life in North America. Marriage and divorce are governed by established secular laws. Under Muslim law a women is not entitled to her husband’s property, which may remain in his family’s control. That is not the case in the West, where division of property, the marital home, pensions, assets are divided accordingly. Both spouses’ contributions are held into account etc. In Islam, a women is given her mahr and returns to her family. There is no further claims to assets.

In the west, the mother usually gets custody of the children in divorce with support payments from their father. Depending on the circumstances, the ex-husband may have to pay alimony to his former wife for years. This is not the arrangement in Islamic law. His future earnings are tied to his ability to pay, which may increase over time.

I have just pointed out these very few examples to state that the initial reasoning behind why Muslim women should not marry non-Muslim men are legally moot. That is, religious laws are not applicable today as secular law determines one’s outcome. Even if a Muslim woman was to go and appeal her situation to religious leaders such as imams, they do not have the strength or ability to actually implement her rights in North America. There are no systemic structures in place to accomodate this.

As mentioned in one of my previous posts, I could not even get my mahr payment until I had it written into a Separation Agreement, had my ex-husband voluntarily sign it and file it in court (cost: about $1,000 for the document). No imam could even apply it.

The past fears and concerns about Muslim women and their access to rights when married to non-Muslim men do not apply today in North America. Being married to a Muslim man does not guarantee it either. The Muslim communities and their local imams have no legal power or ability to hold Islamic courts which may contradict the laws of the land. Arbitration exists but cannot be illegal. There is no supreme legal Islamic authority to appeal to.

Again, we do not live in religious communities here nor confined to the community’s physical quarters as in the past. We may live in apartments downtown or in houses in the suburbs surrounded by neighbors of different religious or ethnic backgrounds. We live in a democracy where the ideals of equality supercedes those of religious affiliation. Having a spouse of whatever religious background holds no superiority over the other. Social problems as an outcome is another issue, I am only referring to the original legal concerns for Muslim women.

Given the reality of life today and the past circumstances under which marriage laws for Muslim women were developed, does it not make sense to re-examine its limitations? Thanks for reading all of this.

As salaamu alaikum, and Ramadan Mubarak ladies. I have been following all your post for a while, I thought this thread on this topic was dead. I commented about this post more than a year ago… Anyhow, Disheartened Desi Chick, I have a comment to you honey. It is not impossible to find someone that is not muslim that will live by the spirit of our faith. I am married to a christian man, and he is fully supportive of me, and the things that matter to me. There is no pork in my house, (he knows I won’t cook it) and no one drinks alcohol in my home anyway. I am currently fasting and he understands this and we plan our lives around it. We have a 10 year old son together and he attends the mosque with me on occasion, and I buy him children’s books on Islam all the time when he asks questions. I dress modestly and pray five times a day, with my husband and child reminding me when my prayer alarm sounds if I am away from it. It can be done, and I think you are limiting yourself. Islamic laws do not apply in the US, and no court of law would even consider bringing them into the sphere of the courtroom. The US has laws that protect all people no matter what faith you practice, and for the most part, they work. I am a police officer so I think I know a little on the subject. One more thing, I am a convert, and the interesting fact to point out is the fact my HUSBAND introduced me to islam, and bought me a Qur’an. I have been muslim now for almost three years now. Faith is a personal thing, a relationship between you and the Creator, and I see a lot of people reducing it down to legalistic terms, and a set of rules and regulations which turns the faith into a dead stagnant thing. It was never meant to be that way.

hi,there !! Actually im an hindu, and i love a girl whose having her religion as muslim,and we have been loving each others for about 8 years..!!!! about marriage,there will be no objection on my parents side.,!! but i dont know about thier parents,…!! will they accept me ??? will their be any suggestions ,they’ll put on me to marry her ????

To Disheartened Desi Chick – response to your August 4th post: I fully understand what your wrote. We are in an extremely difficult situation. What is truly criminal is the lack of understanding by families and other Muslims. They dole out the “what you cannot do” list to women with no thought about how they are literally ruining lives. Of course you want what is basic in life – to be loved, have a partner and a home.

There was no consideration to the unique circumstances of many Muslim women in the west. No thought about the immigrant experience and living as a minority and the many cultural backgrounds that compose the Muslim community and all of its challenges. They impose rules on us as if we are living in their countries of origin, many with Muslim majorities and different norms and standards. Our women pay the price for this ignorance.

I know of a number of Muslim women who have married non-Muslim men. The husbands respect their wives and alcohol and pork are not in their homes. Imagine being married to a Muslim man (as I was), going through a Nikah ceremony with all aspects being proper and then having to deal with his abusive beatings. Which is worse? I don’t mean to imply that all Muslim men are bad as that is very wrong, however being married to someone of the same religion does not mean you are now free of other serious problems. People are people with very human faults that are not wiped away due to being Muslim.

Our Islamic rights are not applied in the west so we are left in a very vulnerable position – being forced to live by rules that carry no weight except in the minds of some Muslims who are detached from this reality.

It is extremely unfortunate that you, me (and others) have been placed in a no-win situation. You are damned whatever you do. As Islam made sex with slave women (outside of marriage) permissible for Muslim men (in the Qur’an) and made temporary marriages (Mut’aa) permissible to accomodate Muslim men – we can see that accomodations were certainly made.

It is unacceptable for Muslim women to be devoid of all things natural (husband, children, family life, a home) simply due to rules which do not take into consideration the very unique and disabling circumstances of us in the west.

We have the worst of both worlds – cultural and religious limitations placed out of context with the added burden of highly stressful lives in urban cities, competing for jobs (due to no financial support), tight schedules and responsibilities.

I urge you to consider making a decision where you have a chance at some sort of a life with someone. Unfortunately due to the incredible ignorance of many of our family and community members, women are placed in positions where they have no recourse or life. This must be rejected and as much as I hate wording this: You need to pick the lesser of two evils. There is no balanced solution which will please everyone. I am sorry to state this.

Save yourself and your life. God is merciful and is aware of all things. I place myself in His compassionate hands and not in the impositions of ignorant-others that we are surrounded by. The situation that we women are in is definitely not what Islam intended for us.

Those who deny women the right to what they are entitled to will answer to God when God asks them: Did you not see the plight of your sisters/daughters and stood by while they were deprived and forced into a life of solitude and need, while you misapplied the good intentions of My laws out of your ignorance (jahiliya)? Let them answer to God and let His compassion determine your future.

The rate of Muslim divorce in North America is alarmingly high. The Muslim Tribune reports a recent study by sociologist Dr. Ilyas Ba-Yunus, a New York professor, which states that the divorce rate in the U.S. for Muslims now averages 31%. In California it is as high as 37%. In Canada, especially in urban centres such as Ontario, the rate is 30%. This means that close to 1 in 3 Muslim marriages are ending in divorce.

The opportunities for divorced women, especially with young children, to re-marry is non-existent. Very few Muslim men will marry them. Many will live impoverished lives struggling to raise their children in a demanding society in North America. Many are young women still in their 20s or 30s.

Islam views divorce as a last resort but again, the fact is many Muslims are splitting up for a number of reasons. No doubt the high stress, fast pace and demands of western life are contributing to this. The convenient paradigm of what Muslim life is meant to be and how it is to be executed is falling apart at the seams in the west. Why? – when divorce was practically non-existent for many from previous generations or from more traditional cultures.

The answer lies at looking at the situation of Muslims, especially women, and the unique and immediate challenges that many of us live under in the west. The pre-conceived notions of what should be occuring – per Islamic traditions and the difficulties in applying them without taking into consideration the variables of North American realities is failing.

In defense of many single Muslim women here, it should be noted that they have suffered greatly due to their inability to find suitable husbands and have remained single rather than marry non-Muslims. They have assumed all the liabilities of this tragic situation rather than breach Islamic rules about marriage. Many do so out of pressure, others as they refuse to partake in what they consider to be behavior outside of Islamic modesty. Their lives are ruined as no one will assess this horrible situation within the scope of Islamic thought. This “tough luck because you are female” is the last attitude we need. It will get worse.

Re choosing between the lesser of the two evils — why do you assume I have choices at this stage of my life? There are no decent nonMuslim men knocking at my door, and the men online are just not my cup of tea. Good, intelligent well brought up men of any background get snapped up early, they don’t stay single into their 40s. And like I said, I don’t think premarital sex will be condoned by God under any circumstances but rape — and 99% of nonmuslim men in their 40s are no going to agree to a sexless relationship before marriage.

We are simply out of luck. Maybe in your jurisdiction decent, educated, middle aged men are plentiful. On mine, they are not. There are lots of beer-guzzling truck drivers from which I can choose….but I have a masters degree and don’t feel that I would be compatible with men like that.

Women like you and I are aware of the problems and circumstances that put us in this situation. But there is no remedy. At this stage, there is no solution. And as much as we wish to warn the younger generation, they are dealing with a larger, more diverse Muslim demographic. Young Muslims now meet in universities. They socialize and go out. My generation did not do that. I had lots of Muslim friends when I was younger but they were all girls! The 20-something’s these days mingle with Muslim boys of their cohort.

Women like me, we are and always have been in “no man’s land”. We are stuck. You should never have gone through what you went through…and I’m guessing you neve had the social and familial support afterwards to get you through it. That is very typical of Muslim families, they leave their daughters to fend for themselves.

I see the years ahead of me as cold, dark and lonely. I just see a long gray road ahead of me, with no pleasure or love or a network of people who care about me. That is a sacrifice I was expected to make for my parents and for my religion.

To: Disheartened – Your response is heartbreaking. Yes, many things are stacked against us but I firmly believe in not giving up. Non Muslim men do not tend to hold the same prejudices that Muslim men hold against our women. I spent two decades resigned to the notion that I will never remarry due to family and religious pressure. What a waste of my life. Now at 53 I am not accepting this unfair fate. No one should have to.

I actually married someone I met at university in the 1980s. It ended in divorce. It is better for the younger generation in some ways, in other ways it is the same story. Younger members of my extended family who recently married other Muslims spent an average of 4 years knowing them before they married. In our time if we spent 4 years with a young man, we would have been crucified. Many of these marriages are occuring by ignoring basic aspects of Islamic behavior, not due to observing them. Virtually no one but the most conservative are choosing arranged marriages usually with people from abroad. Many of these are ending in divorce as well.

Unfortunately due to complete lack of community support for women and the regular promotion of allowing men to do as they please, many Muslim women are caught in the trap of living by our rules with no benefits. I will spare you all the explanations given to me by Muslims about why I should accept my fate. “It is a test” is one of the most common. Really? Is this why God wants for women to not have husbands or children and be banished to a life alone with no support or human care? Why all the meticulous rules for the care and benefit of women if we are to be alone? These are all BS explanations by ignorant people.

Although it is difficult, do not give up. Do not suffer so much just because Muslims themselves are so lacking. Their inability to see this existing problem reflects badly on them. It is not about a few women, it is about many, many women living in the west.

Some of our more mature Muslim women have married divorced non-Muslim men. From what I have heard, thses men greatly appreciate many of the attributes possessed by Muslim women that they do not necessarily find in non Muslim women. Non-Muslim women possess positive traits as well of course, but may be different in ways from those of us raised in Muslim homes.

If a man does not respect you to begin with, he is not husband material.

Non Muslim men also tend to marry within their own age/peer group unlike mature Muslim men who want a wife half their age when they themselves are nothing special. It is common to see on Muslim marriage websites men age 50 wanting wives age 25-30. I suppose Muslim women over 40 should marry 80 year olds! Many of these men are less qualified than you and I are. No advanced degrees.

Please don’t give up. There is no one to care for you in old age. You will be saddled with the burdens of all of our misapplied rules. No Muslim who is promoting all these rules will come to your assistance when you are in need. The situation of Muslim women in North America represents a gross miscarriage of justice. There are decent men around. The challenge is to find them – my challenge too.

Put the broom away and state you will not be swept under the carpet. If our men are not subject to this, neither should our women. They can’t even apply our basic Islamic rights but are the first ones to tell us what to do or not do – what a travesty. You do matter, you are a human being.

Disheartened: (2nd response) Do you really think that Islam intended for us to ruin our lives as a “sacrifice” for our religion?

Would it not be more accurate to state that the rules governing marriage were constructed for another time when the paradigm of certain political, social and economic standards were in place? The lack of sustaining this paradigm has resulted in inapplicable Islamic laws now. This of course has no impact on beliefs such as God in one, the 5 pillars.

Our Islamic scholars need to address the application of laws in our changing times. They did so in the past using Ijthihad. Islam never intended to rob us of a normal life, it is Muslims who use selective application of our laws against women without a second thought to what our men are up to or its negative effects on women. I am sick of this.

Please do not mistakenly think that there is any betterment in giving up basics in life such as marriage for the sake of religion. This is a distortion made worse by Muslims who refuse to address this with our changing circumstances. How easy it is for them to point our verses in the Qur’an without having the ability to apply justice at any level – an Islamic requirement.

I can say that I have passed up 4 marriage proposals from good, professional non-Muslim men over the past 20 years due to religious pressure and threats from family to disown me. I waited to see if I could find a Muslim man. End result – no proposals. I am alone, no assistance from the Muslim community for women over age 40 or divorced.

Disheartened: On the rare occasion I was introduced to an Muslim man (an engineer) – per family insistence, a couple of years ago. He said he was 10 years older than me on the phone but when I met him he was actually 20 years older (about 70 years old, so he lied). This first meeting was to see if any potential was there. He immediately asked me the reason for my divorce. I told him that occured about 20 years ago and has nothing to do with my present state. I also told him that I am not about to discuss anything that personal with a someone I just met and whom I may never meet again. My years in business has taught me not to reveal too much upfront.

He also asked me if I lived in a house or apartment. I realized he was sizing me up financially. He bragged about his townhouse in the suburbs and other investments and his world travels. I purposefully told him I lived in an apartment. His face fell. Then I explained I own a condo downtown in the financial district. I also pointed out that such condos are valued at 3 times what a suburban house miles outside the city are worth and that I didn’t appreciate this line of questioning. It was so transparent.

He actually asked me about my investments – another subject I don’t discuss. A stare-down began.

He initially told me to drive out miles near where he is to meet him. I told him I expect men to come to meet the woman as a courtesy, in a coffee shop. Then he promptly asked me if I owned a car. I said yes but what does that have to do with anything. I was getting irked.

He asked me about my work and I gave a general answer about my field. He assumed it was a junior position and continued to talk down to me. After he finished I told him that I actually own the business and consultancy. There was silence.

With nothing further to add, he asked me what I cooked and did cleaning. With my work demands, I have a housekeeper that helps me out. His face fell even further as he wanted someone to take care of him (like a maid). There was no appreciation for me as a person or for my accomplishments, let alone my interests etc.

The lack of respect in his conduct was demonstrative of how divorced Muslim women are viewed. That we should be thankful if “any” Muslim man would even consider meeting us and they can address us with a level of disrespect. I’ve heard similar stories from other Muslim women as well.

I told family members that if he is the best they can do, they need to admit they are lacking. They said they can’t find Muslim men and were trying to help. I responded that I am not a dog to be thrown scrapes at just because I am a woman. What a disturbing and rude experience that was, it was the longest 45 minutes spent. Anymore introductions such as this and I will go straight into orbit.

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First of all, I agree that the Qur’an does NOT prohibit a muslim woman from marrying a christian or a jewish, the reason why many scholars have confused themselves is because they have not found verses mentioning that its lawful for muslim women to get married to men from the ‘people of the scriptures’ likes it’s mentioned about the men :

This day [all] good foods have been made lawful, and the food of those who were given the Scripture is lawful for you and your food is lawful for them. And [lawful in marriage are] chaste women from among the believers and chaste women from among those who were given the Scripture before you, when you have given them their due compensation, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse or taking [secret] lovers. And whoever denies the faith – his work has become worthless, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers. (5:5 Qur’an)

From this, its natural that the opposite: that is, the Muslim women are also allowed to get married to a Christian or Jewish man because 1. No where in the Qur’an does it explicitly prohibit them to do so, 2, we have to understand that the audience of the Qur’an are males most of the time since we naturally believe that what is mentioned is for both the genders to believe and follow that. So why is it so hard to do the same for the verse above.

For example the verse that follows the one above reads :

O you who have believed, when you rise to [perform] prayer, wash your faces and your forearms to the elbows and wipe over your heads and wash your feet to the ankles. And if you are in a state of janabah, then purify yourselves. But if you are ill or on a journey or one of you comes from the place of relieving himself or you have contacted women and do not find water, then seek clean earth and wipe over your faces and hands with it. Allah does not intend to make difficulty for you, but He intends to purify you and complete His favor upon you that you may be grateful. (5:6 Qur’an)

Just because it says that and I quote ‘or you have contacted women and do not find water, then seek clean earth and wipe over you faces and hands with it’ – does not mean that only men have to wash/clean themselves as instructed before performing prayers , it also applies to women who have been in contact with men, since we naturally believe that it applies to both the sexes in this casse then why should the scholars be bias when it comes to the verse above it????

In my opinion most of the male Muslim scholars apply their own illogical justifications according to their own convenience.

As a young Muslim-American guy who is entering the age when when people around him are starting to get married, I have been giving this issue some thought recently. I’ve also had the chance to read some of the comments posted to this thread. Thank you all for sharing your experiences and research.

I really feel this issue represents our community’s slowness in addressing the challenges faced by my generation. As young muslims, we should be asking what is best for ourselves and our community, not just what is “halaal” or “allowed.” A lot of people did a lot of hard work for us to enjoy the benefits we have of being a part of this Deen, and this American society, so its not unreasonable for us to ponder on how we can contribute to our community and the future generation of American-Muslims alongside our own personal success and happiness.

I would really like to ask the scholars and Muslim community leaders if ANYONE should be marrying a non-Muslim, male or female.

Muslim men need to be more responsible and realize that their community needs them, their Deen needs them, and their Muslim sisters need them.

1) Muslim men should give a VERY strong first-preference to finding a spouse amongst their Muslim sisters before they even think of marrying a non-Muslim (regardless of she is a Jew, Christian, from the People of the Book, etc) and….

2) Muslim men need to SERIOUSLY think about the implications of their future children growing up with a Mother who does not fully accept the Islamic faith. Yes Jews and Christians are very similar to Muslims, similar enough for us to call them “People of the Sacred Books”, but we can’t ignore the fact that they do not feel the same way about our Prophet PBUH, our Holy Quran, and the Sunnah that we as Muslims do) Inshallah their children will grow up to be fantastic Muslims and citizens, but why do you want to make it that much more difficult for them??? This duniya is already a challenging place for young muslims.

3) In our graves, we will not be asked only about our Iman towards Allah, our respect towards the Messenger and his message, and our kindness towards parents…..BUT also about our children!!!! We will be help responsible for our efforts towards raising our children. A righteous son or daughter will bring sadaqa on a parent long after a parent has died. But a child who grows up without Iman will pain their parents during their lifetimes but also make their parents face questioning after death.

4) As Muslim Men, our conscience towards our families should be so strong that we feel comfortable with a wife who is older or younger than us, of a different ethnicity, or from a different background if that means that she will bring Deen into the home and help raise children who appreciate and follow Islam. A younger, prettier, or more “fun” non-Muslim wife will be great….for a while…….but these questions will be gnawing at the back of our minds: what about my children? am I bringing my wife closer to Islam? is she bringing me to Islam?

5) Finally, the Muslim scholars and Muslim community (both men and women) should stop taking about merely was is permissible, but focus on what is needed in our community!!! They need to come together and persuade, convince, and guide young Muslim men to not marry outside of the faith. Yes, it may be permissible, but given the context of our situation it is irresponsible both on an individual and societal level. Muslim men who marry non-Muslims are potentially and needlessly exposing themselves and their own children to harm, and also being unsupportive of our Muslim sisters.

Of course this is an issue that we all have to come together to solve. Muslim sisters also play a part in this.

Few things in the world are repeated as much as, “but there are no good Muslim men out there” from a sister’s lips. Really??? No good Muslim men??? Really???

***As a side note, we already know too many people out there in the world are trying to alienate us, demean us, ridicule us. As a young American-Muslim, none of that is as DISCOURAGING AND DEPRESSING as seeing us Muslims fight and bicker amongst ourselves. And particularly as a Muslim male, it is impossible to not be affected by the overwhelming negative depiction of Muslim men in the media today. (Apparently we are only thought of as wife-beating, woman-hating, angry, backward, unsophisticated, unlearned, xenophobic, sex-starved, emotionally insecure, red-blooded, temper-prone men who try to compensate for our sense of powerlessness by oppressing and subjugating everyone around us, especially women….and the world found all that about us just because we decided to grow a beard (sarcasm).

Muslim sisters, the whole world is eager to pounce on Muslim men. Please stand by us when we need it most.

We know we have a lot to disprove and we need to be better, PLEASE BE OUR ALLIES, NOT OUR ENEMIES

1) They should take a productive attitude towards this issue. Don’t just malign Muslim men and paint them with a broad brush as being irresponsible, patriarchal, selfish, narrow-minded, or whatever. Men comes of all shades and types, just as women do. We men were not made of one mold, figuratively. I can guarantee you that we will not make the situation better by fighting each other. We have to engage each other. This is not a problem for Muslim women or Muslim men, this is a MUSLIM problem, for our whole community. And if we ever want a chance at tackling it, we need to do it as a community.

2) Muslim sisters, I am not a scholar so I really cant break the argument as to whether you are allowed to marry a non-Muslim or not. I really don’t know. But what I can tell you is to give a strong preference to Muslim men.

Just because he doesn’t have the level of education you do, or just because he doesn’t speak with the same sophistication you do about cultural trends and world events, or just because he he doesn’t look like a Bollywood hero, or just because he is not an alpha-male, or just because he as worldly as you….that does not mean he is not a good Muslim man!!!

Give importance to how he treats you, how he values family, his integrity, his honesty, and his Deen. Give him a chance!!! Ask him if he is willing to grow with you, to become a better Muslim and a more dynamic person on the whole! Ask him if he loves you! Be okay with marrying a Man from “back home.” (I’m a from India originally, and I can tell you a lot of the kids back home that we assume to be not as sophisticated as us are quite a lot more interesting than we are!!!)

3) and like I said about Muslim men, our sisters have to seriously think about how marrying a non-Muslim will affect their children. Like I mentioned above, our children are our responsibility. We have to bring Deen into our houses. We have to help them grow up to be confident, educated, sophisticated young Muslims when a lot of our cultural surroundings are fighting against that cause. Find a spouse that supports you in that cause. Don’t just throw your hands up in the air because its difficult.

May Allah make it easy for all of us to find spouses who bring us closer to the Deen, who give us happiness and support. May Allah reward our sisters for their patience and difficulties in dealing with these questions. May Allah give our ulema and scholars the wisdom to listen to their communities, and may Allah provide our scholars with the insight to answer best answer these questions for our community, and may Allah give us the wisdom to respect our scholars.

And finally, may Allah bring our community together in unity and harmony, such that support each other and care for each other. And may our communities be thankful to Allah for allowing a diversity of opinion within his Deen. May Allah make our discussions productive and respectful, and may Allah make the ultimate goal of our discussions for us to seek the Truth and Allah’s mercy, not our personal ego-stroke or intellectual satisfaction.

Muslim women in North America would definitely consider marrying Muslim men – if anyone bothered to introduce suitable men to us. There is an enormous problem of meeting men. Many of us wait for appropriate men – until we are well past child bearing age. That that point, having children and worrying about their beliefs are no longer in question. Muslim men aged 40+ will often marry younger women to have children with, so we are left with few choices, if any.

We usually do not get a chance to “hang out” with any Muslim man to understand the depth of his integrity etc. This is built over time and a more accurate picture emerges much later. This is a luxury we do not have before marriage except in a superficial manner and often results in unwanted outcomes.

The issues are not simply one of who is handsome/pretty. The intent is not to malign anyone, however as women, we face the hard realities of what occurs in our communities. We live with it and we forfeit what we are reasonably entitled to. I state “reasonably” entitled to. We range in our education, not all Muslim women pursue further schooling. They may excel in other areas or may be more domestically inclined. We are not all demanding over-qualified men. Most of us are fairly realistic in our options – yet getting married continues to be challenging for many in North America.

I don’t think it is unreasonable for an educated person (male or female) to want to marry another educated person. It shapes one’s approach and outlook. There is a direct correlation between education, income and security. It is well known that issues with employment, inablity to meet obligations concerning taking care of one’s family all contribute towards a stressful home life. Of course, many other attributes such as moral behavior matter however I cannot overstate the nature of North American life and it’s demands and stresses.

As I’ve stated on one of my previous posts, close to 1 in 3 Muslim marriages are ending in divorce here. Common religious belief is not enough to sustain a marriage. The rate of Muslim divorce is high as there are a number of factors which contribute toward this unfortunate statistic. People were “given a chance” and often it doesn’t work out. Others see this and are more cautious.

I have assisted with a legal group who advocates on behalf of women. Often, Muslim women seek help. I have witnessed an array of problems based on a variety of issues including marriage breakdowns. Being of the same religion did not decrease the severity of the problems.

Part of the definition of being a “good Muslim man” and how individuals interpret this is also problematic. At times (certainly not always) the conclusions reached by Muslim husbands are to the detriment of their wives – especially when the issue of wives seeking jobs are concerned (a result of the economic mess here). Heavily influenced by culture, the role of women may be debated from a rather conservative perspective.

Marrying from “back home” will highlight the lack of cultural commonality between spouses making life challenging, as the issue of what is “normal” is constantly questioned. This is not to take away from a person being “good” – only too different for a preferred spouse. Very few American and Canadian raised women will consider this option.

Why should Muslim women feel they have to get on a plane, fly to the other side of the world, have a superficial meeting for a few days with a man and then assume all the cultural baggage and legal issues of bringing this man over – just to get married? This guy then gets the much coveted, high demand, golden ticket to the west. He will no doubt confess to immediately loving that women (how convenient). When he gets off the plane, his education/qualifications are not recognized and the wife will end up supporting him for years. No way!

If close to one-third of Muslim marriages are failing, then the issue is beyond one of religion or deen. This should not be the only criteria for marriage.

Omar stated the following in a hopeful manner above: “May Allah give our ulema and scholars the wisdom to listen to their communities, and may Allah provide our scholars with the insight to answer best answer these questions for our community, and may Allah give us the wisdom to respect our scholars.”

There is a real issue with some of the Muslim leaders in our community. A Canadian Muslim woman film maker made a documentary in 2005 entitled “Me and The Mosque”. Many of you may have seen it. She goes across the country to various cities noting the accomodations, or lack of, for Muslim women. She accurately points to the increasing trend to remove women’s participation and presence in the mosques. Over the decades, higher physical barriers were constructed to exclude women from the public spheres in mosques.

I note this example to highlight the growing conservatism towards women from many of our community leaders. How are they suppose to address the changing needs of our communities? Muslims tend to form communities around their national/ethnic backgrounds in North America, not one soley based on belonging to the same religion (Islam). Each nationality, due to language and other common cultural traits tend to group together. This reinforces their continuity of their views.

Young American and Canadian Muslims tend to view each other in a more democratic way, yet for decades the majority of Imans who served in North America were from other countries and had very little understanding of the perspective of young Muslims here. They are in a poor position to handle the evolving social issues that young Muslims face (e.g. marriage). There was a definite disconnect between the methods re: implementation of Islam from those who grew up in other cultures and from the realities of what Muslims in the west face.

Fortunately there is now a new generation of American-born or raised Muslim leaders/scholars who are trying to address our needs in the right context. However, their numbers are few. Out of that number, the few who attempt to address social issues in a more realistic manner are often cut down by the majority who hold very conservative views citing their way is the only correct way. One subject was arranged marriages – which lead to problems in communities.

This may be one reason why so many 2nd generation Muslims are marrying non-Muslims. The limited definition of who is Muslim is simply deduced to a person born to Muslim parents. This is enough qualification to marry our women, this is enough to satisfy the religious requirement. Their behavior is not really taken into account. This, by default, would exclude the many, many decent and moral non-Muslims who have demonstrated – by their actions – on several occasions, that they are truly good people.

Our Muslim women are told to lower our standards, that we expect too much from suitors (if any even showed up), that our education is hampering us, that we should leave our homes and fly off to foreign lands to marry men we have nothing in common with. That we should assume all the liabilities of this – yet we must decline making a life with a good non-Muslim man right here in our environment (as our Muslim men do with their non-Muslim wives) or choose to be alone.

With few exceptions, I strongly question our scholars’ abilities to identify the existing issues or to produce solutions in this climate.

Thank you for your response. You highlighted some important issues that my generation faces when it comes to marriage.

No doubt there are some issues. But I am still an optimist. Marriage is not for faint of heart. There are obstacles, there will be compromise involved, and there will be some adjustment. The feeling that I take away from many of the comments of my peers is that they do not recognize how much effort is required for two people to share a healthy, life-long relationship. You seem to be pointing out all the obstacles and pitfalls. No doubt they are there. I also know for a fact that they were there for my parents generation, and my grandparents generation. (different issues, but problems nonetheless)

Some of the complaints of Muslim women are valid. No one should be asking them to shy away from education and professional pursuits. But some of their complaints are very naiive –> none of us are going to find perfect partners and all of us will be in relationships that require compromise. If you’re trying to find the best husband possible, then may Allah bless you. If you are trying to make a marriage work and have a healthy, normal relationship, then you have to work with whats around you.

I can only speak for my observations from Muslim community in Chicago. There are many unmarried Muslim men and women. The majority of them complain that they can’t find someone suitable. Individually, if a person is unsuitable then that is their fault. BUT collectively, if so many Muslim men and women are “unsuitable” then we are ourselves are not meeting our expectations of others. Either our expectations are too unrealistic or we are pathetic people (or both).

If people are going to view all the negatives about marriage, obsess about all the obstacles, and approach the whole issue with a general negativity, then I’m sure they have better life-pursuits to put their time and energy. Maybe marriage was not in destiny, for better or for worse. Allah hu alim.

Once again, I am can comment only from my observation, specific to Chicago. Having grown up and spent much of my life in south Asia and the Middle East, let me tell you that you American/Canadian Muslims are blessed to have islamic scholars and community set-up that you have!!!! You have it much better than the many of the Muslims back home.

I am sure your observations are valid, but let me tell you the Muslim community in America and Canada is dynamic. You have the ability to seek out different scholars (local and nationally). You have the ability to debate with your scholars. You have the ability to question your Masjid management. If one masjid is operating in a way that disturbs you, you can find another. If one scholar is unable to communicate with you, you can seek another. You can rally people and organize your own events and create your own societies. You can harness technology bring more viewpoints to the table, and make people defend their assertions against the arguments of others. In comparison, doing such things would fruitless and maybe even harmful in the places I grew up.

What I mean to say is don’t be disheartened the shortcomings of what you see in your North American muslim communities. To an outsider muslim coming from a traditional Muslim community, what you guys have managed to do is awesome and inspiring. I have never loved going to the masjid and listening to scholars speak like I have after coming to the US. You guys have built your communities from scratch and done a pretty good job of it. I have so much confidence in these communities to handle the challenges of the future. Here in Chicago, if young muslims dont like what they see, they have an incredible ability to make it better. I’m sure Canada is no different.

I know the problems are there, but let an outsider tell you that your communities really can overcome them.

Omar: You wrote: “BUT collectively, if so many Muslim men and women are “unsuitable” then we are ourselves are not meeting our expectations of others. Either our expectations are too unrealistic or we are pathetic people (or both).

If people are going to view all the negatives about marriage, obsess about all the obstacles, and approach the whole issue with a general negativity, then I’m sure they have better life-pursuits to put their time and energy. Maybe marriage was not in destiny, for better or for worse. Allah hu alim.”

I ask you: How many Muslim men do you think an average Muslim woman living in America or Canada is introduced to yearly? Answer: Perhaps one or two or zero. We are expected to hit it off with such a small group of candidates. There are many Muslims living in large cities but we do not connect with them. As women we rely on others for introductions unless we are fortunate enough to meet someone on our own.

Of the millions of people around, women are given a choice of a handful of random men to choose from by the age of 30. Perhaps she is not comfortable with whom she met for a number of reasons. This is a life partner we are talking about. Although there are so many Muslims around, logically who actually gets to met who?

We are not exposed to the thousands of potential candiates together and knock them all down collectively as unsuitable – that would be a problem. We meet very few. After the age of 30, the choices become less and less. In some of my postings, I stated that women do wish to marry very much yet no one comes knocking. Or they may be divorced and their chances of remarriage are slim.

I think the main issue is that up to recent times most marriages were arranged in societies where people had long standing networks. The Muslims here are mainly new comers and do not have the same connections here. We are barely into our second generation in most cases.

Many women come from very conservative families who insist on proper introductions and will not allow their daughters to date or meet up with men. Where do you suppose they will meet Muslim men unless they have a common contact to introduce them? The reliance on these middle-men/aunties is the weak link. I have no doubt there are great people out there. The issue is meeting them. Some families will not permit their daughters to attend Muslim “match making” events as they view this as somehow lacking modesty. They can only draw from their own experiences of “how things are done”.

We are also not on an even playing field, depending on one’s age (which decade they grew up in) – young Muslim men and women have fought with parents who insist on arranging their marriages from someone back home, or dealing with complaints such as the prospective suitor does not have their country of origin’s background. They want a son or daughter-in-law from the same area of the world. They complain about language issues. It was an effort to convince some parents to even accept a marriage with another Muslim that was NOT arranged – where they two young people met and liked each other. There were also issues of race – as much as I hate to say it. The word “honor” and parents’ rights to make such decisions for their children led to a lot of problems. Slowly this is changing for the better.

Why was nearly everyone from our parents’ and grandparents’ generations married – yet we here are having so much difficulty here? It’s due to lack of systems, being in a minority situation, lack of networks, not having a homogeneous community but one that is varied culturally and racially (which is great but challenging to some), differences in pace in their ability or willingness to adapt to North American norms – something the younger generation has done very well. And the expectation of modest behavior in meeting the opposite sex in an environment which usually lacks this.

Everyone has a right to make a life with a loving spouse. Everything I have written on this blog points to the urgent need to address facts and challenges so that Muslim women and the younger generations do not constantly have to struggle within our system. I’m certain I am not the only one out there who has recognized this.

What you may view as negativity is unfortunately a reality for a great number of Muslim women. Very few have chosen to be in the bind presented to us – (yes, we would like a decent life with marriage in our destiny) rather from very specific issues which need to be addressed – some of which I have noted.

“Of the millions of people around, women are given a choice of a handful of random men to choose from by the age of 30. Perhaps she is not comfortable with whom she met for a number of reasons. This is a life partner we are talking about. Although there are so many Muslims around, logically who actually gets to met who?”

I think Sarah has hit the nail on the head.

My generation who is now in their early 40s had it tough. Omar, you were not raised in North America so it s easy for you to criticize. I was introduced to perhaps 4 boys when I was in my 20s. Thats 4 boys over a 10 year period. And by “introduced” , I mean they came to my parents’ house with their families, we all sat in the living room, the boy and I were not permitted to talk, and then they would leave. My mother would then spend the next 5 days staring at the phone waiting for the parents to call back and say “we are interested”.

How regressive is that?

So no, muslim women of my generation were never given a chance to get married and have kids.

And frankly, I think it’s all well and good to suggest we find a moral nonmuslim, but at this age even all the good non Muslim guys are taken. And besides, what nonmuslim man is going to agree to no premarital sex, no pork, no alcohol, a nikkah, etc? I wouldn’t make the same compromises for a nonmuslim man, so why would he do that for me?

About half of those women marry non-Muslim men who either convert or, like Ali’s husband, suggest to mosque imams they intend to, but don’t follow through, Haddad says.

The other half marry non-Muslim men, and live with the consequenes.”

“Only about four per cent of foreign-born Muslim women in Canada will intermarry, says Hassan Hamdani, a Muslim researcher who studies Muslim demographics through his job with Statistics Canada in Ottawa.

But evidence of second-generation Muslims embracing Canadians’ openness to intermarriage is strong, Hamdani says. Almost 40 per cent of Canadian-born Muslim families consist of a Muslim wife and non-Muslim husband.”

It’s interesting to note in the linked article from the Vancouver Sun that 2nd generation Muslims are intermarrying. Almost 40% of Canadian-born Muslim families consist of a Muslim wife and non-Muslim husband.

As these women were born in Canada and are adults now, we can assume their parents are well into middle age or older and most likely immigrated to Canada decades ago. They are Muslim parents.

The argument presented by some that having parents who are both Muslim (Muslim father and Muslim mother) contributes to the overall religious benefit of their children. The question then must be asked: Why did these Canadian Muslim women choose to marry non-Muslims if they were raised by Muslim parents? Should they not have felt a stronger obligation to marry Muslim men or to be more aware of their “religiousity” – assuming they are influenced by having both a Muslim father and mother? This argument’s logic does not follow.

Obviously the reasons for these intermarriages are more complex and rooted in issues specific to the North American experience of 2nd generation Muslims. The article concludes by stating “when both Canadian parents are Muslims, Hamdani’s study suggests that 99% of their children maintain a commitment to the religion”. The children would be 3rd generation and it is too early to determine whom they will marry later on.

The following point relates to a very negative cultural practice amongst some Muslims which affects Muslim women. I do “not” fault Islam in any manner for this and hope that others will help to prevent it. The issue concerns first cousin marriages. As Islam permits it, it has been taken to it’s extreme limit in some places such as in Britain.

55% of UK’s Pakistani population are married to relatives, of that 75% are first cousin marriages. A key motivating factor is immigration of relatives, which these marriages accomodate. Often, the young couples do not even speak the same language and become pawns of their families.

A more horrible outcome are the number of Muslim children being born with severe genetic defects as a result of these marriages. Although this demographic represents 3% of the population, their very ill children represent a full third of all British children with illnesses.

There appears to be no thought for the suffering that these innocent children are subject to, this can be easily predicted with genetic screening or avoided completely. This is a case in point that even if something is “halal” (first cousin marriage) one must still consider if it is wise – especially if it causes preventable deaths of children. The U.K. legal system is now addressing this by attempting to put laws into place.

Muslims have found ways to skirt around American laws concerning this. First cousin marriages are against the law in about half of the states. Insistent to push through these marriages with cousins from abroad, Muslims simply drive or fly to another state where such a marriage is not illegal. Usually the bride is very young and impressionable.

Religion is not the issue but it is one of exterting family control under the guise of religious “blessing”. Halal-haram vs what is fair or right.

Sarah I can’t reply to every single one your your insistence on “not enough Muslim men” can’t be any further from the truth. Can I ask if you’re Arab? Because your struggles with “not accepting educated woman” is so specific to Arab sisters its crazy. The reality is most Muslim women aren’t looking for “Muslim men” They are looking for someone Arab, etc and often have credentials that have nothing to do with religion. I also think the Arab communities it’s very easy for guys to marry outside their ethnicity and the only group I have EVER seen that allows their men to unquestionably marry non-Muslim women on the whole. This is largely an Arab problem and I feel a lot of Arab sisters frustrations with this. But to say there aren’t enough Muslim men is pretty ridiculous.

There’s a Pew Center study that does a comparative study on different religious groups and found that Muslim American spouses have THE LEAST gender dispairty…Muslim men are the most accepting of their spouses education. Please don’t take your microcosmic example of the Arab community and throw it onto “muslim men” a term so ridiculous and as utilitarian as “Christian men” We are more diverse than some concoted image from non_Muslim media that Muslimas seem so prone to blame in their inability to find good spoues.

While I often feel like somethings you can’t control, where and when you meet a spouse, and empathize with sisters in my own experiences It’s often Muslimas and their unrealistic self-defeatest approach (as another poster said long ago somewhere) and illusionary depictions of Muslim men as drunkard, partying, controlling, insecure (from non-Muslim stereotypes of us) and Muslimas as somehow ‘at home’ good submissive. Let’s not be naive and let our heads get in the way.

Lastly what’s the social implications of this? Plenty of Jews intermarry, and where is their community today? “I’m spiritual” “My grandmother was Jewish” “I’m not practicing, but I’m Jewish” This is why Islam gives a SOCIAL significance to marriage.

Another point has been my own experience of unwed singles in the US. It has overwhelmingly in my wife’s community (Pakistani/Afghan) been men, and as a white revert again MEN. A different Pew Center study on American Muslims vs European Muslims cites a 45%-55% gender split for women to men in the US that’s 9 women to 11 Muslim men in the US…which makes my experience and your notion of “not enough Muslim men” pretty ridiculous to say the least.

Ok Convert Muslim. You are right. We unmarried Muslim girls have oodles of Muslim men to choose from and we are just being picky. It’s us, not them.

Happy?

Besides te fact that you are white and male and did not grow up in a Muslim immigrant conservative household….but I won’t get into that.

Oh, did I mention that the Pakistani men I spoke to would hang up the phone once they realized I didn’t speak Urdu? Or how about the prospective Mother in law who was so shocked that at age 38 I lived on my own that she just could not help but ask my mother if I wore “choti choti kameezay” (in Englsh: tiny tiny shirts”).

Another hung up the phone when she heard I was a certain type of professional. She said “we don’t need a girl like that”. We. Like I was going to marry her as well as her precious son.

No, the educated girl bias does not solely exist among Arabs. And, the reason there are a lot of single Pakistani men out there is because they immigrate. They are akin to our parents when our parents immigrated to Canada in the 60s. Our parents kept one and a half feet in the old country. Of course, you don’t know what it’s like to live with parents who are from Pakistan. Well, I do, and I’m certainly am not going to marry one. But I wish these new immigrants well, I really do.

Assalam walaikum. Thank you for sharing some quantitative data. I think you’re right that ethnic practices and attitudes force some Muslims to face much more difficulties when it comes to marriage. I am a South-asian, and I find my community to be more flexible than others when it comes contemporary issues of two working spouses, spouses of different backgrounds, etc.

However, I really think you should present your opinions in a more constructive and engaging way. Calling each other ‘ridiculous’ is not going to convince anyone!!! A lot of these sisters have been through some difficulties, and they have not found adequate familial or community support. They are frustrated, sometimes for valid reasons. But we still need to respectful of each other, and empathetic to each other. This was meant to be a discussion.

But I should thank you for bring up the point of how easily Muslim men are painted with blanket stereotypes of being irresponsible, self-serving, and insecure. Unfortunately these biases have even embedded themselves in a minority of Muslim women. Still, “fighting fire with fire” and making broad and accusatory statements about Muslim sisters as a whole is not going to do us any good or them. We share our opinions so that we can better understand each other, and work for mutual benefit; not so that we can “win” an argument and make others feel like they “lost.”

Muslim Convert: I am neither Arab, nor Indo/Pakistani, nor West Indian. My family originates from a country where Muslims are an absolute minority. I am of mixed racial descent through centuries of conversion to Islam, most people assume I am EurAsian although I am not (being blue-eyed with an olive complexion). It’s interesting that you thought I may be Arab. It perhaps highlights that what is a common problem amongst Muslims is quickly identified by certain ethnic groups as being soley their own and is projected – although it is almost everyones. I made an effort to avoid making comments which are based on a specific ethnic perspective as it is frought with pitfalls.

Muslim women generally don’t get a chance to meet suitable Muslim men. Our introductions are limited to the contacts that middlemen have and often who “they” select for “us” to meet is very limiting. Many families by pass this whole issue by simply arranging marriages with people from back home or other relatives.

No Muslim woman who wishes to marry and have a family would pass up on anyone she thought she could make a life with. The choices are very slim. There are issues with culture and outlook (liberal vs conservative), with language, with commonality.

We are not turning down all Muslim men in one large knockdown. We simply do not get to meet them. The dependency on middlemen for introductions leave us completely at their mercy on whom they produce. This is the outcome of lack of networks and disjointed approach from the vast array of cultures in North American that make up the Muslim community.

The Jews are far more united in any of the issues which affect them. Regardless of their denomination – if anything threatens them, they address it quickly and in an effective, organized, unified manner. Ideology is not the only issue, but rather how the needs of one’s community is being addressed. This is an Islamic requirement yet we are more concerned about ideology and the effects of intermarriage and we are negligent in addressing the needs that affect our women.

In the case of Muslims, the issue of women and marriage is not being addressed and lives are being ruined. How about not throwing the issues back to our sisters who may not be able to articulate their issues although their issues exist. How about addressing them by listening to what our women are saying and present some options including marrying men of The Book, which is the question on this blog.

That Muslim women were not permitted to marry non-Muslim men due to their rights not being implimented (in the past) by non-Muslim husbands, does not stand today. One’s faith is personal and that is what is passed onto to children. Not by just having two Muslim parents. A person’s faith is not automatically lessened because they married outside their religious group. It does not increase by marrying inside one’s religious group either – especially if one has few options.

We are not all as fortunate as your Pakistani/Afghan wife who met you and married a convert. I am very familiar with the Pew studies and as far as statistics are concerned, we should examine why the divorce rate amongst Muslims are so high and the growing number of unmarried Muslim women (of all backgrounds).

Convert Muslim: The Pew study gender-ratio stat does not take into account that Muslims often socially segregated. How many dinners, weddings, lectures, events etc have we gone to where the men are completely removed from the women?

There could be 1,000 men sitting on one side and 100 women on the other. One would assume the women would have a 1:10 advantage – they don’t, cultural limitations would preclude that no Muslim woman would go over to the men’s area and say “Salam, how are you? I’m so and so. Do you mind if I sit here at your table, what’s your name?” We all know this does not happen. Muslim men will not come over to the women’s section either.

Good Muslim men are out there. They could be sitting in the same room as us. We don’t meet them for many reasons outlined in other posts.

Disheartened desi chick I actually started a longer reply, and unfortunately my search for employment will hinder it from coming to fruition, but I’m sorry if I hurt your feelings. First off know that who is Jewish had a terrible experience with a Jewish man who was emotionally and physically abusive to her within three months of marriage…she didn’t end up hating all Jewish men for it. I can only empathize and feel EXTREME sorrow for a woman who reaches that age and had to go through freezing her eggs.

I also don’t think a person could be ridiculous but do think the PERCEPTIONthat “all ‘x’ men’ are ‘bad quality’ is pretty ridiculous

To Sarah who will continually justify and nitpick (sometimes for good reason) every single exception. The problem is you don’t ask yourself what happens if your wrong. Assuming we negate hadith complete (ie the story of Umm Habiba, married to a Christian man who apostisized….what if it was because was Christian and not an apostate?) The idea that the Quran does not explicitly forbid marriage as an allowance to do so is extremely flawed reasoning. The Quran doesn’t speak about dropping nuclear bombs either, doesn’t mean it allows it. For me, to risk your happiness in this world and the world after out of ambiguity is an easy choice: abstain. One of the most difficult parts of becoming a Muslim in college was giving up marijuana. I was not sure about its prohibition, but since it was an ambiguous situation at best, I still get barakh for giving it up, even if it is allowed

Lastly this action of marrying outside our community seems like an awfully simple way to avoid confronting problems within our own communities.Sarah say” More importantly, there is total neglect about the fact that Islamic rights for women cannot be implemented here, yet we are bound by rules which assume we have access to these rights – i.e. cannot marry non-Muslim men as these men cannot fulfill our rights – which we don’t have anyway.” To a point I agree with you, but you say and more importantly PROPOGATE this like it’s a hard fact, and I disagree iwth you big time there

. (muslim and non-Muslim) women in this country have a right to child support but often don’t get it. Yet how many Muslim marriages do you know in this country that have a mehr that isn’t paid before the wife moves into the husband’s household, or a nikah that doesn’t have witnesses? We don’t have any social institutions for that in this country, yet it is a stable in the Muslim marriage. And that’s my point. We have these institutions as communities and having a weakness in our inability to meet a spouse means we should work on these institutions. THe way I see it is Muslim communities are so tight (95% of American Muslims are located in major urban citities) that we need to network to find spouses, introduce spouses, breakdown barriers and this thought of ethnic exclusiveness (in my opinion the largest with Arab American communities in the Midwest) and form a communal idetntiy without breaking down our own like so many American Jews and Muslims have in the past.

Also again the way this debate is being framed is that SUDDENLY all the desi, somali, arab sons of immigrants are being forced to deal with interrmarriage. It really shows you how narrow minded some of sisters in this debate are. This isn’t a new debate for the Muslim community. The largest American Muslims populations aren’t Desis or Arabs…they are African Americans BY FAR. Syrians, Turkish, Albanian Yemenites, Lebanese American communities have been present in this country for centuries, why don’t we see them. Why don’t we see someone who says my great great grandfather/grandmother was a Muslim from x country like we do “he was Irish, Italian, Menonite from Germany” Sarah If I’m open enough to question why my daughter can’t marry a Muslim spouse (and I believe my son too) we should also agree that the marriage of you to a person of a different faith, TO SOME LEVEL, fundamentally takes that faith and identity away from your children from generation to the next; it dilutes it. Exceptions? Sure, but on a social level if you had 1000 interfaith marriages compared to 1000 same faith marriage, the religion identity and practice of the same faith marriages would be a lot consistent than the interfaith. FYI the rate for Muslim children in the US not turning out Muslim with a non-Muslim mother is above 50%…with a non-Muslim father is above 80%…for a non-Jewish father is above 75%.

Also the notion that Muslim men are freely allowed to marry non-Muslim women is something that should be discouraged, and is in my opinion. For instance I don’t know of a single desi, Afghan or far eastern (malay) Muslim man married to a non-Muslim. I don’t realize what it is in Middle Eastern culture that makes it so easy for men to do so, and would be interested in knowing why Turks, Kurds, Persians, Arabs, and Albanains think they could bring children up as Muslims when they go out club, drink and meet non-Muslim women WITH THE SUPPORT OF THEIR MOTHERS TO MARRY THEM (huge difference from the former cultures0
one Please visit http://www.muslimsinamerica.org to see a history of Muslims in America.

Like a religious radical, many sisters and brothers here unquestionably accepted liberalism, a philosophy that was used to colonize the world. They unquestionably accept the Constitution as the daily document that forms the fundamental basis for their social life. I mean really, isn’t a UK multiparty direct democratic election much better than the bicamberian system we have in the US? Why do we simply accept things the way they are in our secular social structure in America, without quesiton, yet somehow we find inequity and inequality in the Quran?

The truth is we rationalize things the way we want. Just like this debate. It is being projected as a difference in equality between men and women, when I don’t think we can certainly say that’s completely the case in Islam. Islam is a SOCIAL institution. We can rationalize anything in this way. To show you the dangers of doing so I remember the convert female imam(ah) in Canada who lead a prayer and said something along the lineof women can do anything men can and proceeded to lead a congregation because she felt like she need to prove so.

Well I didn’t see it that way. She asked the same question I asked before and I ask to you Sarah. What if you’re wrong? To me she went to proving herself to men and human beings when in fact she was never answerable to any man, only to Allah had she followed the example of the mother of all believers in their example of praying behind the Prophet PBUH

Anyways I typed out a longer response than intended. Other points from my original response:

Omar and Desi Chick I’m sorry that I might have come off harsh, but being from a Jewish background, I have seen what intermarriage as a whole has done to a minority religious group in the West. Over half of Jewish interfaith marriages end in divorce and most of the time the children either have no Jewish faith or turn out non practicing. I think I am an open minded individual and approached this debate with the feeling “hmm…this seems unfair that only men can do so” but there’s a lot more thought that goes into this and there’s a lot more involved that individuals in a social institution.

I mean isn’t that the problem we have in America today? We have stopped seeing marriage as a social instutition. Just these year, for the first time ever, more Americans are living as unmarried co-habitating couples than they are as married couples. What has been the result? More kids are born out of wedlock, 1 out of every 5 children in the US doesn’t have a father growingup, pre nups, no religious service atedance. For women especially there is less security than before.

And it’s hard not to stand by and a see a community destroyed by some extremely skewed perceptions of all “Muslim men” women, who, I could guess in their youth, generally did not consider anyone past their own ethnic background. I still stand by this belief that most ethnic Muslim women generally see cannot see “Muslim” men past their own ethnic backgrounds; which means they aren’t really looking for Muslim men.

Maybe I’m letting out a little bit of steam from my own experiences and difficulties in finding a wife

Desi chick you sorely missed my point if you think I’m in anyway trying to villify the Arab American community. The vast majority of my friends whose company I kept before converting to Islam were Arab. It’s through their example that I, in part, converted to Islam. I went to school in the Midwest which has some of the oldest Muslim communities in this nation. The problem I see and your response is that somehow being rejected by a few men can be easily rationalized as “because I didn’t speak Urdu” etc and yet we don’t really know if that’s the reason.

and again desi chick, I empatheize with you immensely. I don’t think there are enough good guys in this world from any background and I come from a white/jewish non-pracitcing background. May Allah SWT bless you with rizq. My mother was 42 when she had her last child, and my wife told me of a 64 year old woman having her nikah done. If I rememebr correctly Imam nawawi never married himself. We all have our calling and some of the most trying moments could give us better guidance in our life.

I’d like to share my following experience: A few years ago I was one of about a dozen Muslim women of diverse backgrounds to be interviewed by an academic at a major north-east university. She was preparing a study. This study was to be presented to assist in the construction of government policies re: Muslim women and facilitating their needs concerning employment, dress code discrimination, legal representation, family law etc.

The professor asked me directly: “What aspects of Islam limits options for women here?” I was very careful and measured in my response. I told her many of the issues facing Muslim women were not strictly religious based but rather they were cultural. Many challenges are the result of the immigrant experience and also the great diversity in cultures. There is no homogeneous “Muslim” community. I advised her not to simply look at any perceived “deficits” in religion to seek answers. I did not want Islam treated in such a manner.

I answered that often the outcome for women is also determined, to a great extent, by social class. It is not just religion in one broad stroke. Women who may come from better educated families with stronger social footing may not face the same issues than those who may come from backgrounds that lack a more cosmopolitan outlook. This directly affects her exposure to a broader range of people and her family’s acceptance of flexibility.

The duration of time spent living in the west greatly impacts one’s perspective as well. First generation views from very conservative backgrounds tend to be very different from those who are well into 2nd generation and may cultivate more independence of thought. Yet cultural limitations of what is considered proper interaction for women is the aspect that is most curtailing to meeting other Muslim men. Others simply discard these rules and mix and marry as they chose.

Some Muslim men complain that they are stereotyped negatively by Muslim women, yet there is little mention about how many Muslim women are treated badly due to observing hijab etc by some employers or in public. More importantly, there is total neglect about the fact that Islamic rights for women cannot be implemented here, yet we are bound by rules which assume we have access to these rights – i.e. cannot marry non-Muslim men as these men cannot fulfill our rights – which we don’t have anyway.

I think if the man is of similar religion and culture its ok…. my husband is better muslim (he prays, follows all practices of islam and his religion too), than the ppl who are criticizing me (those ppl say theyre muslim but they are not… they lied, cheat, sleep around, steal, and say bad things about muslims, and eat pork… all in 1 year, and still try to wear hijab!!!! lol )

Convert Man: In my experience, mahr is not necessarily paid before marriage. It may be in some cases, but certainly not all. You stated that my arguments are for man and not God and what if I am wrong. I simply put forth my case that there are major, major issues (now for decades) in North America concerning Muslim women and marriage. The many aspects of these issues have been discussed. I noted that the original concern about Muslim women and if they can marry outside the faith due to the question of whether their Islamic rights can be implemented still stands. As you noted, there are no Islamic institutions here to escalate to.

The laws for Muslim women were created to enact within a certain paradigm which does not exist. I am now 53 years old and for over 20 years I have refrained from re-marriage due to our rules. In the past 13 years I was introduced to 2 Muslim men – that’s it. Being over 40 years old (and divorced) puts me, and other women, in the category of “low priority” by Muslim men. How can we be blamed for questioning the existing circumstances that we must forfeit marriage and certaining giving up the chance to become mothers? What incredibly awful price to pay.

Certainly as you correctly noted, the existing situation must change. This will take many years if not generations. What happens to Muslim women in between? Should we “abstain” from marrying non-Muslims as a sacrifice to our religion (as Disheartened Desi Chick sadly stated in one of her posts)?

We are all answerable to God. No one is disputing that. How high is the price that our women are expected to pay? We face the realities and limitations of our circumstances here.

I find it curious that the Qur’an permits Muslim men (married or not) to have sexual relations with a woman whom their right hand possesses – outside of marriage. These slave women can be married to other men (when seized), yet if captured, our men have full rights to them without these women’s consent. This is halal.

As Islam is the dominating society within which these women were raped and their children are raised – is allwed due to Muslim control. This is not a distant example, Saudi Prince Bandar, the former Ambassador to the U.S. (to 2005) is the son of a concubine. His father the Crown Prince was “not” married to his mother. These are the religiously permitted allowances for Muslim men. No one questions if the concubine mother was consenting, no one questions if the father’s wife (or wives) were approving of this. Yet it is all acceptable and okay.

I agree with you the our situation is quite bad here. If reports state that 40% of Muslim women in Canada are marrying non-Muslim men, we must assume that the lack of networks is playing a great role in this. The majority of these women were raised by two Muslim parents yet this did not alter their decision to marry outside the faith. They identified themselves as Muslim. What is the end result?

I am pointing out bluntly what others may fail to state in my postings of our situation. While previous posts by others on this blog dissect and hash Qur’anic verses and attempt to qualify and interpret them from various angles – by questioning if Muslim women are able to marry non-Muslim men, I have pointed to the realities that exist. For many Muslim women here – these issues are “in our face”.

The mentioned “dilution” by you is already occuring within Muslims now due to assimilation and secularization. This is occuring without intermarriage. Of course the argument can be stated that this one more reason not to “promote” intermarriage however it is clearly happening without any help – within Muslim families. What is happening to their religious practice which is not related to intermarriage?

I have spoken to many Muslim women who are well passed the ethnicity issue. They are happy to meet Muslim men of diverse backgrounds with one specific requirement – that the man was socialized (brought up since childhood) in either the U.S. or Canada. While nothing guarantees success later, it is something most women are insistent on. In the case of much younger women, it is usually the parents who are pushing for a son-in-law from the same heritage.

Disheartened Desi Chick is accurate about men hanging up on her when she didn’t speak Urdu – that was the real reason. When I was younger and being of mixed racial background, I was subject to the following: I am not of the “boy’s” national background so the his parents are having an issue. I am not from some Muslim majority country that the family is looking for in a daughter-in-law so I cannot be considered, the languages I speak are not the specific ones for the boy’s family. I grew up here so I am “too western” for them compared to the girls back home. Or worse, I wear dresses (however modest or long) which is “western” and lacks the so-called appropriateness of more traditional wear such as “shalwar kameez’ (Pakistani) etc. Education was not an issue as I only had my undergrad degree at that point, the bulk of my education was achieved after my divorce. Disheartened Desi Chick was discriminated against by potential in-laws for being in a certain profession. She never got credit for being educated in general. This is what many of us deal with.

When we look at available Muslim men we include consideration of all races/ethnicities, nationalities, newcomers vs native born, established vs refugees, different languages and diverse cultural attitudes – especially when it comes to women. Commonality of religion is not the only question.

Muslim women are expected to piece all of this together in a community that is segregated, where we are not permitted to “date”, where many Muslim men fly back “home” to marry, all the while dealing with parents who were raised in different countries with very different attitudes from those of us North American raised, and find a husband. The lack of networks has been discussed.

Please understand the enormous difficulties that this presents to the average Muslim woman. Is this the level of hardship that Islam meant for Muslim women to take in our daily lives or do we have to forfeit our basic rights such as marriage until our communities get their act together? If this is the case – it will be a long, long wait.

There are worse difficulties in being Muslim than giving up smoking pot. For Muslim women here, the difficulty is to give up being married.

Note: I specifically refrained from mentioning or identifying the cultural/ethnic background of my Muslim ex-husband (whose behavior was deplorable) in any of my posts, to avoid painting other Muslim men from his national group in a negative light. I did so out of fairness – as he was soley responsible for his negative behavior and no one else.

– What is Islam’s redress to Muslim women living in North America who were unable to marry?

– What happens to her financially if she is not in a position to support herself or if she becomes ill or is in old age? The expenses of living here are well known.

– What happens when she has no husband, children, inheritance or little income to see her through?

– What happens when there is no extended family home for her to be absorbed into, such as those which exist in traditional cultures?

– What if brothers (if any) are unable or unwilling to assume taking responsibility for her in the long run, especially if their wives are unwilling to cooperate – very understandable in North American context?

– What happens to her when she is isolated/alienated socially and psychologically?

– What is the remedy for such women – especially from those who dissuade her from marriage to non-Muslims thus preventing her from becoming a wife or a mother?

Are we needlessly condemning our women to a life headed for some welfare plan unless she is a top earner or well invested – to compensate for being alone? What’s next – lining up for the soup kitchen in winter?

How is any of this for God’s pleasure? How is any of this moral?

What happened to the overriding concept of “Social Justice” prevalent in Islam?

Islam speaks in great length about looking after the poor, the widows, the orphans – the needy. Yet here we are “needlessly creating” a large group of potentially needy women, due to our own lacking. How ironic. If anyone questions this, just look at all the contributing factors in this situation and deduce what they will lead to.

These are very real and serious questions which goes beyond any articulation of the issues discussed on this blog.

It’s interesting that Grover Norquist – who was referred to as the “Most Powerful Man in America” this year due to his role as president of Americans for Tax Reform and with his substantial political leverage over the US government – is married to a Muslim woman. His wife is Samah Alreyyes, a Palestinian – who was the director of the Islamic Free Market Institute and a specialist at USAID (development).

There is no evidence that Norquist converted to Islam. Only some right wing extremists in the US claim he did to undermine his political position. He calls himself a “white bread Methodist” Christian.

If he was known to be Muslim, the vast majority of Republican Congressman would “not” have signed his famous taxation pledge. Their influential conservative base (many in the south Bible-belt) would never have tolerated it, especially in an election year.

Many from this substantial group strongly protested the mosque-community centre being built in New York City near ground zero. A lot of anti-Muslim behavior stemmed from Republican circles – yet Norquist is very powerful amongst them.

Consider the horrible way some in the right wing treated Democratic Congressman Keith Ellison (a Muslim) and the false accusations against Huma Abedin, by extreme right wing Congresswoman Michelle Bachmann, of being a Muslim Brotherhood “plant” attempting to take over the US government. They also wrongly claimed her Jewish husband Anthony Weiner converted to Islam to marry her – which he did not do. Their son has a Jewish-Muslim name: Jordan Zane Weiner.

First even it hr did convert to Islam it doesnot have to be public knowlege. Than devost muslim will act like than white bread Methodist. Thjan christian freind told me not all Christian eat pork.,quit afew follow the jew and muslim in not eating pork.

Has Norquist ever been seen at Juma (Friday) prayers? Has it ever been noted by anyone that he refrained from eating during the month of Ramadan – especially as a public figure? If he did convert and it is not public knowledge, he’s done a remarkably good job of avoiding/hiding all basic requirements for being Muslim. Norquist is not a Muslim.

What is the worst, most die-hard rumor in the US by some opponents of President Obama? – That he is a secret Muslim and should not be supported. Although Pres Obama is clearly not Muslim and attends church, was married in a church by a Christian pastor, and had his children baptized – the falsehoods persist.

If Norquist was Muslim, this would have come out long ago before all the Republicans signed his tax pledge which affected the election with their constituents. Someone as powerful and influential as Norquist would not be able to hide this fact under scrutiny.

Canadian Defense Minister Peter MacKay is married to a Muslim woman Nazanin Afshin-Jam.

We should accept that Muslim women are marrying non-Muslim men without clinging to forced concepts of secret conversions. Perhaps recognizing such marriages will allow the couple to participate in Muslim life without being shunned as unacceptable by other Muslims.

The children of such marriages will also have better exposure to Islam if they were included in the community rather than being treated as pariah-offspring of “undesirable” unions, as many are now, which directly affects their own identities – something Muslim men with non-Muslim wives face to a much lesser degree than Muslim women with non-Muslim husbands.

Nazanin Afshin-jan is Not Muslim. She is a catholic. Her mother converted to Catholicism as a young woman and raised her children Catholic. Peter McKay married a Catholic, and at their wedding ceremony Nazanin’s father read passages from the bible in Persian.

Thanks Desi Chick, I stand corrected. Nazanin’s former Muslim mother did convert to Catholicism and apparently raised her as one. This further defeats the notion that coming from a Muslim family or having a Muslim father does not necessarily conclude that the children will be Muslim. In fact, it further strengthens the important influence of the mother’s beliefs on her kids – rather than the father’s – a point many Muslims have difficulty accepting.

The issue of conversions to Islam for the sake of accomodating marriages is turning into a bit of a farce.

I have attended numerous weddings where the non-Muslim groom or non-Muslim bride recited the Shahada (it took about 10 seconds, done 5 minutes before the ceremony) in order to satisfy the Muslim parents-in-law or the Imam conducting the ceremony. The pressure to do so was on.

No Islamic education or understanding accompanied this conversion. It further did not reflect in the daily life of the new convert either as it was deemed to be a necessity to avoid family friction. No participation in Muslim prayers, rituals etc by the convert. Many will state it is better than not doing it – although hollow.

These perfunctory conversions are occuring and should be recognized as just that. The boasting which echoes in families about how the new son-in-law or daughter-in-law is a Muslim, need not turn into advertising campaigns in the community as the often do.

This is not meant to deride true conversions which occur from the heart and are genuine and is conveyed in the convert’s attitude and understanding – which usually involves a lot of study and practice.

I am a muslim man and I absolutely agree with this post. In terms of America, we live in a society where men and women are treated equally. The view that muslim men are allowed to marry christians and jews while muslim women are not is preposterous. Such views make non-muslims think Islam is unjust.

The main argument for prohibiting the marriage of muslim women to jews and christians is that a woman is weaker and more emotional than a man and cannot make sure that her faith and her children’s faith are not affected by the husband. Science has proven that argument is absolute rubbish. Men and women are not hard-wired to be more logical or more emotional respectively. If anyone looks at the exact translation of the Qur’an, they will find that women are not forbidden to marry jews or christians. The Qur’an forbids all muslims to marry a person of faiths besides Judaism and Christianity (polytheists, atheists, et cetera). Also, homosexual relationships, fornication, and adultery are all forbidden. That is obvious to every muslim, but I just wanted to mention it. Oh and if any homosexuals read this, forgive me. I am 100% for freedom of choice as long as it does not infringe the legal and natural rights of others. Also, it is forbidden for a muslim to force anyone to do anything (the only exception being discipline for offspring).

The reason why so many muslims are against this post is mainly due to ethnocentric views that are ignorant, arrogant, and uneducated (forgive me if I may have offended you, but I have to be blunt). If something is not forbidden in the Qur’an, the divine doctrine for the lives of muslims, then it is allowed. Any other rules in Islam that were not specifically established by the Qur’an are considered bid’ah, innovations to Islam that are considered heresy. I urge all muslims to see past cultural values and look at Islam through unbiased eyes. God is our lord and he has no imperfections because he is God. I am absolutely sure that he is the preserver of liberty, equality, and freedom. Men and women are all human beings. Human beings are equal. Therefore, men and women should have the same rights. The only exception to that is if the Qur’an mentions something that a man or woman specifically has to do or if something is specifically forbidden to a man or a woman by the Qur’an.

In conclusion, we must follow the rules set by the Qur’an without letting cultural values get in the way and by following those rules word for word. You should not abuse the rules by bending them or making things up. I am sure many muslims may disagree with what I’ve said, and everyone is allowed to have his or her opinion since that is what freedom is all about.

Before I end my comment, let me share some rules in Islam that I found are bid’ah while studying the translation of the Qur’an and the teachings of Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him).

Dog slobber does not break wudu. It was a rule made after the Prophet’s (peace and blessings be upon him) time.

The use of marijuana is not forbidden by the Qur’an. The Qur’an specifically says alcohol and substances that harm you are forbidden. Marijuana does not harm you. The most that marijuana does is enhance apoptosis in some sebocytes (secretory cells in your lungs) through tetrahydrocannibanol (THC). Those are constantly regenerating quickly so your body can deal with certain levels of harmful molecules in the environment. It is true that marijuana kills sperm, but it only kills a small fraction of the millions of sperm produced my males constantly. Just remember, sperms are just haploid CELLS and CELLS die every second in our body. From the scope of an entire human being and not individual cells, marijuana does not harm you unless taken in excess. However, that applies to everything consumed. Even too much water can harm you. Everything in moderation…

Women can be the provider if they wish and it is not forbidden. Men are obligated to provide and they have no choice, but women can chose to be providers as well. Also, both men and women have to take care of the children and it is not a woman only job.

Men can shave there beards if they wish. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) had a companion who did not have a beard. He disliked it, but he didn’t say it was forbidden.

There are other rules I have found that are bid’ah, but I am tired and it is currently 12:50 A.M. here.

Shiraz- very thoughtful response and I agree with you completely.
Sana- is there any chance of him converting? your parents don’t have a right to force you into a marriage so don’t feel guilty by saying no. Google ‘irshad manji’ and what she says about these sort of relationships (much moe positive!) Also there are muslim imams who will do this ceremony for you- ie one in oxford ( Taj Hargey)

As for me personally, my partner who is from a Christian background is going to convert (I don’t expect him to but my family do and we are raising the kids muslim) He is studying the religion now and we hope to be married very soon :)

Best of luck! and stay strong. As for the Muslim review guy- you’ll always come across attitudes like this (ie- incredibly rigid and not willing to think beyond what they have been told)

I am a Muslim woman. I am currently having a turning 4-years secret relationship to a non-Muslim. We respect each other’s religion and belief instead of thinking of the future’s problem because we believe what’s important is our own obligations each day and not seeing the future broadly or else it will compromise our relationship. What we care is the love that we have, understanding and compatibility.
I am 22 years old now and my family is forcing me to marry somebody they chose me to marry who is also a Muslim, but because I love my non-Muslim man, I refused to grant their wish. I felt guilty because I do love them but I cannot compromise myself marrying a man I do not love. What should I do? Any advice please.

Wits: I will reply to you frankly as we are all anonymous on this blog and there is no fear of personal embarrassment.

You should definitely not marry anyone you do not want to. That is heading for disaster. I think it may be due to your age that you honestly stated you are “not seeing the future broadly or else it will compromise our relationship”. You need to consider it.

You have known your non-Muslim man since you were only 18 years old. I would strongly caution any young woman who may be involved with either a Muslim or non-Muslim man from such a young age, to consider giving yourself a chance to grow, get an education, mature and meet people before making a life altering decision to commit. I’m sure both yours and his feelings are sincere however you became attached to him as an adolescent – i.e. very young and not as an adult.

The stress of a 4-year long secret relationship is not good for your psyche. Most likely he is the only male you have ever known in any serious sense and the duration of time spent in this relationship offers a positive experience for you. Often the pressure of disapproving parents tends to further fuel the relationship, often in an “artificial” manner where the need to stay together is heightened by the pressure to break up. You wisely stated yourself that you are not seeing the future broadly.

I have no doubt that you feel you love him, it is not my place to say otherwise, he may be a very good person. Your parents also do not have the right to force you into anything. It is of concern that you stated “or else it will compromise our relationship” – this is very telling and not heading in the right direction.

If you continue this relationship you will face the continued stress of dealing with your parents about this. Don’t be surprised if your “secret” relationship is not such a secret to them. Parents have a way of knowing what is going on with their kids – especially after 4 years. This may be what is behind their insistence of you marrying someone else. They are afraid of you marrying a non-Muslim.

As you have been involved with someone through the critical formative years and the pain of ending the relationship is very difficult to bear, you need to consider if you have given yourself a chance to grow first in everyway – independent of this relationship.

I have witnessed too many marriages of people who got married in their early 20s which ended in divorce around the age of 30. There were a number of contributing factors but often it was due to early attachment without having a stronger sense of self and experience – which comes with time and giving yourself a chance without pressure.

Hey Sarah, you’re comments are very reasonable and clear with analysis coming from a more “academic” perspective. Are you a philosopher, professor, psychologist, psychiatrist, or something else? I was just wondering. :)

Shiraz: Thanks. I’m actually a good observer of the Muslim community (in my environment) as I’ve grown up and lived in both Canada and the US since the 1960s. Having gone through the entire school system here from Grade 1 through university, I’ve witnessed a number of the challenges our communities face for decades. This includes what happens to our women.

I also understand that it is very difficult to have non-North American Muslims interject what they feel is “Islamically correct” without experiencing what Muslims who are born here or grown up here face. The context is removed and distorted and we here are accused of somehow “defiling” Islam by speaking up.

My concern for our women and community at large has always been there. I have paid the price for our laws by spending the bulk of my adult life alone – without a spouse or children due to misapplied restrictions re: marriage. Many other Muslim women have as well.

I am not an academic nor psychologist etc however I had wonderful opportunities to hear and meet intellectuals such as Noam Chomsky, Edward Said, Tariq Ramadan, John Esposito and many others whose works I have read and value.

I have formally studied Islamic history, political science, comparative religion, sociology, law, business and investments. This blend gives me a certain perspective/grasp on viewing our Muslim community. I am a business consultant within a very high growth industry. I often wonder and worry about our women who may not be in as comfortable a position (which is most).

I would also caution our youth “not” to take a highly liberal approach towards being Muslim in North America. I do not promote the “do-your-own-thing” ideology. This will no doubt dilute our values and traditions. Instead I strongly request that we find solutions “within” the context of Islam (which is rich, varied and accommodating) so that we may continue to develope our own traditions as North American Muslims and stay within the fold of Islam.

Failure to address this will result in losing many of our community members (Ummah) over the next few generations. It will be our own fault for not addressing it – rather than scapegoating our young Muslims as being “weak” or immoral.

Until we break free from the strong cultural limitations which direct a lot of Muslims’ attitudes and values – especially the influence of “how we do it back home” or worse – the strong influence of immigration and the abuse of marriages to attain legal status in North American and approach our social issues in a fair manner – our problems will persist. Until we break free from centuries old religious interpretations which are damaging now – our problems will persist. To simply says “this is halal, this is haram” – does not work.

Islam addressed issues from social, economic, political, theological and cultural perspectives while other faiths tend to only deal with the abstract, anthropomorphic attributes of God or rigidity of law. Surely we can find answers without defaulting to the limitations that we witness in other faiths. Islam offers answers – we just have to find them – without condemnation – and apply them fairly.

It is stated that during Moses’ time God made the Israelites wander for 40 years before they were permitted to enter the promised land. The reason behind this was that original generation was too corrupt, as a result of living in pagan Egypt, and was influenced by that ancient culture. That generation had to die out before the next one could proceed. We need a serious “washing” out as well. Hopefully it will not take 40 years. I realize this is a harsh statement.

if you wish to make up your own religion then go for it but do not say that you are Muslim when you are obviously not, To satisfy your own earthly desires. A muslim is someone who submits to the Will of Allah not someone who makes his own religion up if you do not wish to submit to the will of Allah do not call yourself a muslim

The Muslim Review: No one is making up their own religion. It is rebuttals such as yours which do not help our communities. If someone states s/he is a Muslim, it is not for anyone else to determine s/he is “obviously” not. For the sake of clarity I wish to point out the following:

Many of our Muslim sisters living in the West have suffered greatly due to actually “abiding” by our religious rules re: marriage. They have consequently lost out on having a husband, children, a home, their own family. They also suffer from lack of financial support which is supposed to be inclusive in Islam for women – whether it be from a father or brothers or a husband. This situation has created social, economic and psychological and health problems.

The Will of Allah is to assist and guide people at all levels for their betterment. No one is disputing that.

However cultural encroachments, misinterpretation, misunderstanding, out of context enforcement or misapplication, the lack of “ijma” or consensus on how to apply or proceed according to circumstances and of course “ijtihad” by those properly trained in its application per the situations Muslims find themselves in – all need to be addressed for those Muslims living as minorities where none of the existing laws of Islam apply.

The Will of Allah is suppose to manifest within the discipline of Islamic jurisprudence or “fiqh”. Fiqh is highly evolved and Muslim scholars are to use their intellects based on a structured and established approach to find solutions. This is an on-going process.

There is enough evidence within Islamic scriptures and thought that God’s will does “not” intend to marginalize Muslim women, or cause them to live lonely lives, or not have husbands or protection. This is the situation for many Muslim women living in the West due to hardened Muslims laws re: marriage.

This is beyond the question of “earthly desires” – which by the way is legalized in Islam for men – permitting them to have sexual relations with women “whom their right hands possess” – i.e. not married to. Meanwhile, today our women are given a “tough luck” approach when they cannot marry – “it’s our religious law, too bad for you, you’re a women and you may have to spend your life alone” – rather than examine the original intent of our laws in their context, which is resulting in cruelty for our women now.

The original context of why Muslim women could not marry non-Muslim men (due to the compartmentalization of communities in the past, according to religious group – a Muslim woman married to a non-Muslim man would go and live in his community thus preventing her from accessing her rights in Islam per family laws etc). This is the reason behind this restriction.

The above situation does not exist for Muslims in the West or anywhere for that matter where Muslim laws do not govern society (most of the world).

If anyone wishes to call themselves a Muslim – it is their duty to address the issue of social justice – especially for our women. Just looking at the end result faced by of many, many of our Muslim sisters in the West re: marriage – it is clear that a hardlined approach embedded in injustice instead of one derived from kindness, humanity and well-being, has not helped anyone. . . .clearly NOT Allah’s will.

Yes, “life is short and the hereafter should be considered”, however Islam speaks to the fullness of life and clearly does not promote a monastic-type existence, which unfortunately many of our Muslim sisters, who live in the West, have been reduced to due to the misapplication of our laws re: marriage.

There are cases that anti-Islam people have people who arenot muslum sday they are muslum to discredit Islam. In one case they have than young christian woman fakeing being than muslum woman who convert to christian saying that Jesus was never writen about in the Koran or talk about durning Firday noontime prayer by than Iman.

I guess in Islam it’s forbidden for you marry a hindu boy unless he converts. However, it is your decision on whether or not you want to marry him. Muslims don’t force their views on others, not even other muslims (unless he or she is your offspring, in cases of discipline). Just remember that Islam is all about the connection between you and Allah. It only matters what you believe, that’s how you’ll be judged. Do not follow other people’s knowledge or advice immediately, just use then as a guide to seek the truth. Be like the Greek philosopher Socrates who questioned everything he knows and always strove to seek the truth. I know a lot of conservative muslims find my views offensive, but we are all entitled to our own views because that is what makes us human and that is what a democratic society does. So as a liberal muslim, I say follow what you believe to be right.

An interesting and important point: OnIslam.net provides the following good argument set forth by a Canadian Islamic scholar Sheikh Ahmed Kutty:

“Although religiously speaking, there is a permission granted for Muslims to marry women belonging to the People of the Book (i.e. the Christians and Jews), this permission cannot be generalized. Even during the time of the second Caliph, `Umar ibn al-Khattab, we read in the sources that he had forbidden some of the eminent Companions of the Prophet from marrying women of the People of the Book. He asked those Companions: “If everyone were to make use of this provision who would marry Muslim girls?

For Caliph `Umar then it was only a question of Muslim women remaining unmarried. For us today, there are other complications arising out of such marriages.”

The website further elaborates on the words of the famous Muslim scholar Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi in his well-known book, The Lawful and the Prohibited in Islam – stating:

“If the number of Muslims in a country is small—for example, if they are immigrants residing in a non-Muslim country—their men ought to be prohibited from marrying non-Muslim women because, since Muslim women are prohibited from marrying non-Muslim men, their marriage to non-Muslim women means that many Muslim girls will remain unmarried. Since this situation is injurious to the Muslim society, this injury can be avoided by temporarily suspending this permission.”

Note the term: TEMPORARILY SUSPENDING THIS PERMISSION (the permission cited in the Qur’an re: marriage was suspended).

The Rightly Guided Caliph Umar “disallowed” what was “allowed in the Qur’an” as the situation at the time was unfair to Muslim women. Sound familiar? In present day North America this suspension should also extend to Muslim men who fly off to other countries to marry and return back with foreign wives from “back home”. A common practice which leaves many of our Muslim women here with even fewer choices.

The authority to address grieviously unfair circumstances and even implementing changes to accommodate fairness is what is required for Muslim women living in the West and marriage. Islam has accommodated temporary marriages when Muslim men were far from their communities, polygamous marriages, interfaith marriages, even children with concubines.

Yet when the matter of issues facing Muslim women and marriage in the West is discussed – some Muslims who oppose this blog: “Muslim women should be able to marry non-Muslim men” – find their backs going up higher and higher and the lack of accommodation – which the Great Umar was gracious enough to implement – would be near heresy in their eyes.

Muslims closed the doors of “Ijthihad” (independent interpretation of existing Islamic law) in the 10th century. This is leading to problems now. It is urgent for Muslims to examine our present position within the scope of Islam.

Ijtihad was extremely necessary as Islam met very changed conditions of society during its rapid expansion from the Arabian peninsula, and Caliphs were generally known for their stance to accommodate.

The following is a quote from British Muslim scholar Ziauddin Sardar’s book: Permanence and Change in Islam, Postmodernism and Other Futures: A Ziauddin Sardar Reader, p. 49:

“The cardinal framework (of Islam) is eternal. Truth remains unchanged; but the human condition does not. It is the principles of Islam that are eternal, but not their space-time operationalisation. The Beloved Prophet (Muhammad) himself, as well as the Rightly Guided Caliphs, varied the application of the principles of Islam as the circumstances changed, but always within the parameters of Islam. They had fully understood the spirit of Islam.”

Islam was always flexible to accommodate the changing needs of Muslims throughout history – which is one major reason why Islam spread with great success across continents. It’s rigid application should be reconsidered in light of the situations Muslims face in 21st century North America or anyplace where Muslims cannot escalate their legitimate concerns due to lack of Muslim social, economic and legal infrastructures – hopefully applied in a fair and just manner.

If a Muslim questions this status-quo, s/he should not automatically be labelled by more conservative adherents as being “outside Islam”.

Islam has always promoted reasoning – at all levels – which is why the Muslim world was extremely advanced in many of the sciences and medicine for centuries, while Europe sat in the Dark Ages smothered in the ignorance of superstition and misapplication of religion.

There would never have been a “Renaissance” in Europe if it were not for all the great Muslim research taken/stolen into the Christian world from Muslim Spain after battles. These sophisticated Muslim scholarly works were plagiarized by those European scientists deemed to be “geniuses” according to western tradition – while the actual Muslim authors and developers contributions were conveniently overlooked.

Let’s re-visit our common intellectual capabilities and apply them in a constructive manner.

This was a good read. I have not visited this blog before, and therefore, I have not seen the blog’s other Islamic (or non-Islamic, for that matter) views. I also glanced at the comments instead of reading them all due to their sheer number.

With that said, I did not see one other point mentioned: As Muslims, we rely heavily on the ahadeeth (plural of hadeeth; which is a saying of the Propher, peace be upon him). And one of the main ahadeeth talks about how we as an Ummah (a nation or a people) should rely on the Qur’an, the Sunnah (the Prophet’s sayings, way of life, etc.) AND to look at those first 3 or so generations that followed the Prophet (pbuh).

When there’s a matter to be discussed, especially when bid’ah (innovation in religion) is in question, then we must rely on those 3 things … in that order. You have addressed the Qur’an one; although I don’t feel it was done thoroughly; simply because there are linguistic reasons to re-evaluate your interpretation of the two Ayahs. Specifically, we would have to look at the choice of words used in these Ayahs vs. their use in the rest of the Qur’an. Keep in mind that as The Word of God, The Qur’an is very articulate. VERY. So on a scale of 1 to 10, I feel this article addressed the 1st of three parts at a level of 6 at best.

The 2nd part is the Sunnah, which includes the ahadeeth. In the article, there was very little mention of them. I’ll rate that as a 3 simply because you referenced some but not delved into any.

The 3rd part is the reason that drove me to write this comment. Those first three to four generations that follow the Prophet (pbuh) should be evaluated to a level of scrutiny. Did they at any one incident allow the marriage of a woman to a man from The People of The Book (Christians & Jews)? Is there at least ONE occasion where that occurred? I am definitely not a scholar; and I’m not just saying that. But I have not found ONE situation, incident or occasion (depending on your side of this debate) where that occurs.

As a Muslim, that’s where buck stops. With all respect, for the purposes of this debate, I do not need to evaluate your one through four points listed before your “Come on …” part.

“Those first three to four generations that follow the Prophet (pbuh) should be evaluated to a level of scrutiny. Did they at any one incident allow the marriage of a woman to a man from The People of The Book (Christians & Jews)? Is there at least ONE occasion where that occurred? I am definitely not a scholar; and I’m not just saying that. But I have not found ONE situation, incident or occasion (depending on your side of this debate) where that occurs. As a Muslim, that’s where buck stops.”

This would cover about 100 years after the Prophet (pbuh) including the start of the Umayyad Dynasty. Islam grew at an exponential rate at this time. Muslims had dominated politically, socially and economically. This the the main reason why Muslim women may not have married non-Muslim men at that time. It was a question of domination and implementation of legal rights – which were retained within religious communities.

Importantly, there was a civil war between Muslims almost immediately after the death of the Prophet including the infamous “Battle of the Camel” (656 CE) – when Hazrat Ali and the Prophet’s wife Aisha battled each other.

I am pointing to this historical incident to show that just because certain things occured or did not occur (wars between Muslims or Muslim women not marrying non-Muslim men at that time), is not ample evidence that it was just or correct. There are contributing factors which need to be examined and not dismissed as “fait accompli” – especially when the lives of Muslim women are being ruined today.

It pains me greatly to state this – it should be noted that after the Prophet’s (pbuh) death, as stated in Islamic scholar Maulana Shibli’s book Al-Farook, as well as confirmed in Hadith compiled by Ibn Abi Shayba, ibn Qutayba, al-Baladhuri and al-Tabari (amongst others) – Fatima (Prophet Muhammad’s daughter) died as a result of injuries sustained after her house was raided by Umar ibn al-Khattab who set fire to the house. She also miscarried her child.

While this incident remains controversial, it is further proof that to simply look at what occurred from that original generation of Muslims and thereafter as evidence of conduct or example – must be very carefully examined and not accepted in totality to justify certain positions which affect Muslims today.

Anti-inertia noted “evaluated to a level of scrutiny”. Most of the Sahabahs (companions) of the Prophet (pbuh) as well as the Prophet himself had concubines. It was a common and normal practice for that time. Apparently their wives could not object, on religious grounds, to their husbands having sex with these women whom they were not married to. How far would this reasoning go today? Is it realistic to think most Muslim women would tolerate this behavior from husbands now?

One could argue that as men do not “own” women/slaves today this point is moot. This is exactly the reason why we need to be so careful in making equations based on customs/situations from centuries ago, to reach religious conclusions for a completely different world today.

This form of deduction is popular amongst Muslims, although it is illogical. The larger picture of Islam speaking about humanity, justice and fairness and care for the vulnerable is lost.

The flippant approach that some may take towards women’s life issues is reflective of this – meaning misapplication of situational circumstances of centuries past, for enforcement today, resulting in deprivation for women of their rights/needs is not acceptable nor fair.

Oh, boy. As a Muslim, I must say I am quite disappointed by many of these comments. What kind of world are we living in that a blogger cannot express his/her opinion without being “doomed to the fiery pits of hell??” You try to encourage an intellectual and open dialogue about a very valid point/topic, and you meet resistance and ignorance from overly bigoted and religious people whose only words are “Astaghfirullah!” or “Subhanallah!” When they run out of words to intelligently express themselves. Please do not call on God in any shape, fashion, or form in an attempt to try to “shame” or belittle someone else for their beliefs. It is really sickening.

The fact of the matter is that we will just continue to see our numbers decline over the years based on the ignorance and intolerance. We have become unjustifiably patriarchal as a community while the rest of the world is passing us by. While I myself have never been married to a Muslim man and would ultimately like to marry a Muslim for my own personal reasons, I must say, that if Muslim men really want to protect their women and keep them in the faith, start by changing your own actions and beliefs rather than reducing your female counterparts to lowly submissive beings who are incapable of thinking for themselves and bashing men of other faiths. By what arrogant logic do you assume that your marriage to a non-Muslim woman would work out so much more beautifully than your Muslim sister’s would to someone of another faith?? I am not encouraging it, I am simply questioning this sort of logic, because it makes so little sense. If anything, I have seen the reverse. Just about every Muslim man I have seen marry a Muslim woman who never converted or really practiced Islam, has lost his children to the world (meaning they have become immoral people who do as they please) or have adopted the faith of the mother (who they spent the most time with, DUH!). I myself, was homeschooled by my mother, who was a convert from Christianity (as was my father, but my mother converted later than he did) My mother, however, practiced Islam to the fullest and became knowledgeable enough about it to teach her children, because she was serious about Islam. My father was not the primary reason for her conversion at all–she is a rare case in this community.

In order to keep your women, you need to treat them right–women, like all creatures, want stability, safety, and love for themselves and their offspring. If you are mistreating your women in the name of religion, while John Doe, the Christian, promises to love and cherish her for all of eternity and respect her beliefs, she MAY, as a result of self preservation and just plain common sense, chose John Doe. Does it mean she will give up her beliefs? No. Does it mean she will be perfectly happy? No. It is just highly probable. We need to be more concerned about fixing our actual flaws instead of our image. The less we are concerned about how “others perceive us”, the more time we can spend on improving ourselves as an Ummah. If there is any truth to what others are saying about us (in negativity), then we need to fix it. Simple as that. I once heard a Muslim woman say to another Muslim woman, “The Muslim man is ALWAYS better than the non-Muslim man, no matter how the Muslim man treats you.” Needless to say, this woman has been divorced and remarried MANY times, physically and emotionally abused, with many children (most of whom are no longer Muslims). Need I say more? What kind of ignorance are we perpetuating??

Well said Jaw Dropped. The main issue also is not just Muslim men marry non-Muslim women, but that Muslim women in North America have massive impediments in place to marry Muslim men. It has mainly to do with how society here is structured. The methods used for marriage in traditional Muslim societies do not exist nor work here.

Most North Americans in general tend to marry within their own peer/age group. Our Muslim women find that past the age of about 35, many Muslim men will not consider marrying them. Why – because many of these men have the option to fly “back home” – where a long line up of young Muslim women are ready to marry them, to gain access and immigration for themselves and their families to Canada or to the US. Non-Muslim men here do not tend to fly off anywhere and choose to marry local women (which seems like the normal thing to do).

As there has been an enormous rise in Muslim divorces here, fairly young divorced Muslim women, many with children, will find it near impossible to re-marry a Muslim man. Non-Muslims find it more acceptable to form “blended” families from divorce with re-marriage, but most of our Muslim men will not do so.

So what is the fate of these Muslim women, many only in their 20s or 30s? According to religious interpretation – they will remain single, being forced to deal with financial, social and psychological problems for decades. Marrying “imported” Muslim men from other countries have proven disasterous in countless situations due to legal liabilities (previously discussed on an earlier posting).

Some women accept the shortcomings of these marriages so as not to upset parents who made these arrangements and fear of being “dishonored” in the eyes of their parents’ or their social connections. Ultimately they take their toll.

It is a mess and very few Muslims, if any, are addressing this. Meanwhile the chorus of “Astagfirullahs” continue as our women are forced to accept abnormal lives or potentially face ostracism if they marry non-Muslim men.

hello to everyone that has a freedom of thought and decided in his behavior.some people are very caught between theme.when you decided that choose a religion in fact you choose a slavery for that religion, but there is a difference with real slavery.because here we decided to control our desires or behaviors by religion without any push . by the way you are free in ones action for your every another chooses .so one has not any believe in a religion therefore can not condemned it , as long as limit his freedoms.in this case you have to tolerate or run away or be same it or be thoughtless or fight it or fund another way for this matter.

Often what is lost in discussions concerning whether Muslim women can or cannot marry non-Muslim men is the legal context. Marriages and subsequent responsibilities fall within the scope of a legal system – whether it be Islamic or secular. The problem is that we are trying to impose rules from one system (Islamic) onto individuals who do not live within this legal system.

The Islamic system is based on a number of constants and is applied according to assumed criterion being in place. The criterion does not exist for Muslims who do not live within such societies (very few countries can actually adminster original laws). Muslim women marrying only Muslim men falls within the concern that only a Muslim husband can ensure her rights under Islam can be implemented. What happens when there is no such system for recourse?

Islamic jurists formulated laws (especially family law) based on traditional Muslim society with fairness in mind. Within that context, many laws certainly do make sense. However, outside of this environment massive distortions occur when Muslims attempt to enforce laws in environments which are not conducive or favorable to them. Muslim women often end up paying the price for this.

Strictly speaking, according to Islamic law if a woman with children re-marries, she loses the right of custody of her children. There appears to be consensus amongst Islamic Jurists/scholars about this. Her children can no longer live with her. The original intent was for the benefit of her children, so they may not live with a step-father who may not be interested in their care etc. The children live with the mother’s extended family.

While the practical side of this ruling has benefits, undoubtedly the emotional side for a mother losing custody is devastating. But this is the law according to Islam.

In the west, we live under a democratic, secular system. Custody is determined according to circumstances. Usually the children live with their mother. While remarriage to “any” man (Muslim or non-Muslim) can result in unwanted outcomes (such as abuse of children etc – very serious), the mother does not automatically lose custody upon remarriage nor is there a traditional extended family for her children to be absorbed into in North America.

The purpose of the above example is to clarify that simply debating the pros and cons of whether Muslim women can or cannot marry non-Muslim men – is not just a “yes” or “no” answer. Context and implementation is critical – as answers should be based on a viable legal system – which is the basis of all Muslim family law.

Which side of the debate one is on may be determined to a large extent by cultural perceptions of women, rather than looking at the full legal situation and in context. Partial implementation – i.e. a Muslim woman must marry only a Muslim man – without any legal recourse for her under Islamic law – misses the mark.

All this is really over my head. As a 24 year old Muslim guy living in the west, I wouldn’t mind marrying an older Muslim woman at all, provided she had the correct characteristics and faith. However, the notion that we Muslim men are all abusive, choosy, oppressive, hypocritical, etc, really hurts me. I have never engaged in pre-marital relationships/intimacy nor done anything majorly prohibited by Islam. Neither have most of my friends. I wouldn’t do such things for the world, although the opportunities are there. I am well educated, employed, independent and live alone, but I just can’t seem to meet a Muslim woman just like many Muslim women complain that they get limited opportunities to meet Muslim men. In this day and age, I still have to revert to my parents to find me a Muslim partner (I wouldn’t consider a non-Muslim woman, as I feel Islam is too spiritually ingrained in me and I need a practicing Muslim woman to connect with me & understand me. Sadly, most women I interact with at work or in my free time are non-Muslim. They usually have a lot of respect for me and some have approached me, although I’ve respectfully backed off.). I have a lot of respect for practicing Muslim women and I would never abuse or mistreat anyone I take as my wife. Yet all I hear is that we abuse our women etc.

My question is this: Why do most Muslim women wait till their late 20’s or early thirties? Why all this emphasis on career? Couldn’t we just form a better society by getting married early, studying whilst living together and getting support from our families to get by until we earn well enough? (Isn’t that what many non-Muslims do anyway??) Why do we put so many impediments to marriage that young people have to revert to illicit relationships? Our societies are getting more messed up as we make marriage more and more difficult whilst our religion encourages us to embrace marriage.

Random Guy: You sound like a decent young man. Not all Muslim women place emphasis on careers. There are many women who do not have professional pursuits. A career is not for everyone, aptitude plays a role as does financial circumstances (education can be expensive).

Muslim women do not necessarily wait until their late 20s or early 30s to marry. Often they are single by default. We experience the same problems you noted – we don’t get to meet suitable partners due to a number of issues in meeting Muslims socially. Women may find themselves 30-ish without having been introduced to someone appropriate for them. The women who may pursue careers have every right to. In this society, being without an education or skills or the ability to earn independently can be very detrimental.

The divorce rate for Muslims who marry young in North America is quite high. It is not uncommon to see Muslim women, barely 30 years old, with young children and divorced.

The rush to ensure young people are not involved in illicit relationships often results in early marriages with immature or unprepared partners, stress over lack of funds, issues of parental interference due to their financial support of the couple, parents upset that their son/daughter is dependent upon his/her in-laws for support. Not all parents can afford to do this, especially if they have other children in need. Not everyone wants to be in their family’s basement or extra room (assuming they own a house).

Pregnancy can result in further stress if the young couple is not prepared financially for this responsibility including living conditions. I can count the number of young brides I met who said they would not have a baby until they finished school, only to give birth the following year after marriage.

The issue of “earning enough” causes further problems per un/employment issues as they did not marry as independent individuals but perhaps as students. Most parents want their sons and daughters to finish their education first before taking on a spouse and related responsibilities.

The biggest impediment here is that society is not structured to accommodate Muslim requirements, as we are a minority with specific needs (by those who adher to them). These requirements are the antithesis of what exists in much of our environment.