Don't miss out on this great basket,In one week I will post it on EBAY, Just wanting to pass on a good deal to a local.This basket retails for$200. You will not find a heavier duty DG basket for the price.It will not rust like innovas Junk.

Now that you're leaving the game, do you have any problem with someone re-desigining Hurricane Shule? I'd be willing to take up where you are leaving off as far as course clean up is concerned. I would prefer to have creative control over the use of the land though. There's an opportunity to make a great 18 hole course.

do you have any problem with someone re-desigining Hurricane Shule?Yes. I am just waiting on the park to install pads. and finish other projects. No more free work for me, I cant afford it.

I'd be willing to take up where you are leaving off as far as course clean up is concerned.This would be nice of you. and to any one else that plays there on a regular basis. I'm done with cleaning for now.

I would prefer to have creative control over the use of the land though.I am sure you would like control. You need to earn that. Blood, sweat and tears, and plenty of insect bite. and volunteer a few years of you life to make it all happen. do your best with what is offered to you, and make the best of it. and then just stand back and watch your efforts get kicked around and bashed. and spit on.only to see some chump that has never lifted a finger or bothered to help out in any way, want to size control.Are you kidding me .

There's an opportunity to make a great 18 hole course.It's not great, and I am ok with that. it is however one of the most challenging courses in the area.If the park ever recovers from this economic downfall, and will finish the projects that have already been approved, I think at that time it will be great.Approved Items. Tee Pads, Better T-signs, Pavilion, ( space already cleared for it) and park benches.And someday I wish to upgrade to Chainstar baskets.

But for now it is what it is. an overgrown mess.and i am ok with that. I play more at sandy creek now.less than 10 min from my Home. And it stays real nice and manicured. I can just focus on playing.

Oh by the way, did you want to buy a basket ? I also have some great D-4 & HX-2 drivers. they would probably help improve your game. How bout a Quest; Dumb Putt

There's an opportunity to make a great 18 hole course.It's not great, and I am ok with thatit is however one of the most challenging courses in the area.

But for now it is what it is. an overgrown mess.and i am ok with that. I play more at sandy creek now.less than 10 min from my Home. And it stays real nice and manicured. I can just focus on playing.

OK.. just so we understand....

Do you think the other people that work out on the other courses in Atlanta get paid for weedeating and clearing, and pouring tee pads, picking up trash, etc...??

There is land out there with a course on it, but because YOU have put so much time into it and even though YOU admit that it is, as quoted above, "not great" and "an overgrown mess".... Because its OK with YOU, you are going to let it sit there, and get worse, until YOU have time and the county has money to continue with your plan?!?!!

Man do I want to be a part of that club of yours? What is it again... For the PLAYERS, by the PLAYERS? For now I guess I will just play the other courses that people keep clean and manicured....

I don't know what positive results could come for the disc golf community by letting a course go when it is obvious there is a desire to fix it up and make it better?? I don't know you, but I would say, there seems to be a need to get over the EGO and if you are tired of the work and just wanna play, let the county, or whoever owns the land, decide what is allowed to be done and let the PLAYERS who want to do the work, get busy?

This is one of the biggest problems in disc golf: the bizarre notion that someone "owns" or has "control" over a course located on land that does not belong to them. The only cerebral comparison to this are street gangs fighting over "their" turf. The parks that disc golf courses are located in belong to the public the last time I checked. When the day comes that I put a course in I can assure you I won't develop this kind of mental disorder. If the county appoints me as an overseer that changes things only very slightly but just to randomly claim ownership because of some delusion I have concocted will not happen. It has always been funny to me how a group of people who consider themselves as such a community and a family are so fraught with dictators? I also love the justifications: “I VOLUNTEERED so you should thank me and let me be the ruler of this disc golf course because I have “earned” it.” How is SHAM going to stop Jay from redesigning the course? Why should he ask “permission?” How does one “earn” something that is a fantasy to start with? Unreal.

I think Chuck is talking about how he has had work days for the course (which would be a good time to come out and give ideas) and not many have shown up. The ones that don't show, generally complain about the lay out, yet when they had the chance to do something, nothing got done.

The same thing happens at JP Moseley (and other courses).... we get lots of comments of how to change the course yet when we have work days, those that were giving suggestions, never made it out.

Hurricane Shoals isn't too bad of a course... just skip the field holes or combine them into a few long arm holes. The woods holes are decent enough to hone your skills at approach shots, and require a bit of aim to achieve a good score. Just because someone doesn't shoot good there all the time doesn't mean it is a invalid course.

Chuck has put enough time in and feels that it is his time to just play golf instead of working on courses. Atleast he tried and did something instead of complaining and doing nothing.

Sure he may pat himself on the back often, but that is his personality, not anything bad. I'd like to see a few of you guys out at a course all day long digging holes for baskets, and moving tree's & shule in 90* weather.

How about we set up a work day at Hurricain Shoals and see how many show up to help??

djester wrote:I think Chuck is talking about how he has had work days for the course

Hurricane Shoals isn't too bad of a course... just skip the field holes or combine them into a few long arm holes. The woods holes are decent enough to hone your skills at approach shots, and require a bit of aim to achieve a good score. Just because someone doesn't shoot good there all the time doesn't mean it is a invalid course.

How about we set up a work day at Hurricain Shoals and see how many show up to help??

I'll have to disagree with you on these points Josh.#1 If you go back and check the work days he scheduled, you'll see they confict with some other event after that event has been posted! Seems to me he didn't want help from disc golfers?!

#2 Hurricane Shoals is an invalid course because it is too repetitious on land that is anything but repetitious!

#3 Come up with a decent layout and will personally pull out the 6 invalid holes in the open in any kind of weather!

I know this thread has been TOTALLY derailed from the original baskets, sorry about that Chuck, but I have to say that there are some good points being made and some bad ones.

Good ideas don't have to come from the people that are out there every weekend working on the courses. I have worked on a few courses around town over the last year and a half of being back in the area. I have suggested a few ideas and volunteered to help with those ideas along with the others at workdays.

There is not a course within 35 MILES of my house, which is where I spend most of my time as I work from home (aka, officially unemployed) and therefore find it hard to commit to weekend workdays as I am usually playing in tournaments, and when I'm not, thats when my friends with jobs have time to hang out. So, I have asked before what needs to be done and try to make it out during the week and do some work sometimes. Nothing major, and dont want or expect to be recognized. Its all about returning the favor for playing which a LOT of golfers dont do, yet take advantage of the work of others.

I know that there is a lot of tension between Chuck and others from some previous events, and maybe thats why there is a lack of participation at HS. I'm not saying that this is the case here, but when GOOD suggestions are turned down because the "owner(s)" of the course don't want to do that, then you will get less people submitting ideas and will be left with the same few people out there every week doing the work. Whatever the reason may be, it should not prevent any course from being able to be improved. Unfortunately since I live close to 2 hours from Hurricane Shoals I will not be attending the next workday.

I have never played HS, and it may be a great course, but I am just going off what has been posted by those that oppose the way it is set up AND by the post of the "owner/designer" as shown...

djester wrote:Hurricane Shoals isn't too bad of a course... just skip the field holes or combine them into a few long arm holes. The woods holes are decent enough to hone your skills at approach shots, and require a bit of aim to achieve a good score. Just because someone doesn't shoot good there all the time doesn't mean it is a invalid course.

Chuck has put enough time in and feels that it is his time to just play golf instead of working on courses. Atleast he tried and did something instead of complaining and doing nothing.

Sure he may pat himself on the back often, but that is his personality, not anything bad. I'd like to see a few of you guys out at a course all day long digging holes for baskets, and moving tree's & shule in 90* weather.

How about we set up a work day at Hurricain Shoals and see how many show up to help??

CHECK-SLAM.

CONFIRMED. (gomez, you can contact my copyright infringment lawyer)

I've got to witness discussion board shenanigans between mr-disc, bam, mr.disc, richardhead and many more.(not trying to leave you out if you like bashing bam) but this is america. We live in place where you can creatively control your own life. Bam does this. I like that about him. Ive never met bam but, just like that "strange network" guy wearing ATL jerseys and ties in S.C., they have a passion for discing. That aint too bad isnt it? When will you guys relize that you can turn around and go down the street to 50 other some courses in the surrounding area? This is whats great about the freedom of choice. And whats ur problem chris? You dont know the guy but you join in on the bullying?(more than once now) Go build your own course. Im not trying to make friends, schedule a visit to Mcdonalds, or make enemies but when you have the option that we do, well...

p.s. Side Note: Oregon park isnt that bad when you use your left hand!

Last edited by kade.erp on Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:57 am, edited 2 times in total.

maximus wrote:II have never played HS, and it may be a great course, but I am just going off what has been posted by those that oppose the way it is set up AND by the post of the "owner/designer" as shown...

wow that makes it worse. go for yourself, meet the guy, then give your two cents. people act differnetly behind the closed quarters of a cpu.

djester wrote:I think Chuck is talking about how he has had work days for the course

Hurricane Shoals isn't too bad of a course... just skip the field holes or combine them into a few long arm holes. The woods holes are decent enough to hone your skills at approach shots, and require a bit of aim to achieve a good score. Just because someone doesn't shoot good there all the time doesn't mean it is a invalid course.

How about we set up a work day at Hurricain Shoals and see how many show up to help??

I'll have to disagree with you on these points Josh.#1 If you go back and check the work days he scheduled, you'll see they confict with some other event after that event has been posted! Seems to me he didn't want help from disc golfers?! I'm too lazy for that!besides....when is there not a workday & tournament the same weekend?

#2 Hurricane Shoals is an invalid course because it is too repetitious on land that is anything but repetitious! I never thought of it being repetative

#3 Come up with a decent layout and will personally pull out the 6 invalid holes in the open in any kind of weather! It wouldn't take much, and the current course is pretty good!

djester wrote:I think Chuck is talking about how he has had work days for the course (which would be a good time to come out and give ideas) and not many have shown up. The ones that don't show, generally complain about the lay out, yet when they had the chance to do something, nothing got done.

The same thing happens at JP Moseley (and other courses).... we get lots of comments of how to change the course yet when we have work days, those that were giving suggestions, never made it out.

I can confirm that this happens...a lot.

Bottom line... your ideas for how the course can be improved are better accomplished when you actually take the time to come out and help...otherwise it's just whispers on the wind my friend.

Sequoyah is taken care of 100% by volunteer work, and we DO try to listen to the things people say, even if they never lift a finger. We know you can't please everyone, but most of the time if you look like you are trying to, you will get the benefit of the doubt.

That being said, I've played 70-75 courses, and HS is by far the worst course i've ever played. I dont mean that to step on toes, but when the vast majority says the course sucks, maybe its time to rethink some things.

maximus wrote:II have never played HS, and it may be a great course, but I am just going off what has been posted by those that oppose the way it is set up AND by the post of the "owner/designer" as shown...

wow that makes it worse. go for yourself, meet the guy, then give your two cents. people act differnetly behind the closed quarters of a cpu.

You set it up, I'll meet you and him over there and we can play a round one afternoon. Just give me a couple days notice and at least 2 and 1/2 hours to get there. I will be more than happy to play it and give my honest review. Anybody else that wants to come out, lets get a group?

Is there a weekly action out there? Didn't see anything on the board anywhere?

djester wrote:I think Chuck is talking about how he has had work days for the course

Hurricane Shoals isn't too bad of a course... just skip the field holes or combine them into a few long arm holes. The woods holes are decent enough to hone your skills at approach shots, and require a bit of aim to achieve a good score. Just because someone doesn't shoot good there all the time doesn't mean it is a invalid course.

How about we set up a work day at Hurricain Shoals and see how many show up to help??

I'll have to disagree with you on these points Josh.#1 If you go back and check the work days he scheduled, you'll see they confict with some other event after that event has been posted! Seems to me he didn't want help from disc golfers?! I'm too lazy for that!besides....when is there not a workday & tournament the same weekend?

#2 Hurricane Shoals is an invalid course because it is too repetitious on land that is anything but repetitious! I never thought of it being repetative

#3 Come up with a decent layout and will personally pull out the 6 invalid holes in the open in any kind of weather! It wouldn't take much, and the current course is pretty good!

Slam! (you slammed me, not me slammed you)

You owe me a chocolate cheese cake for that one!

How have I slammed you? I think you're just fishing for a free dessert (Insert McD's joke here). #'s 1,2,3 and 4 are all the same shot aren't they? There are two holes in the woods (good tight anhyzers) that are carbon copies of each other. There are at least 4 more in the woods that rely totally on the luck of the disc missing a tree than the skill of the golfer hitting a tight fairway. The last time I played it I could have left my bag at #9 and walked the woods with my buzz and putter. Lookin at the land, couldn't you see the course winding in and out of the woods with holes that played out of them or back in?

Cheesecake is more of a fall\winter dessert, how about a nice keylime pie??

It really does not matter. some of you that I have had the opportunity to meet and hang out with like josh and jpz and others have been real cool. but most of you are nothing more than pricks. and I blame Brain Graham the head prick the most.but any way I am beyond all of it now.If you see me I will be out enjoying life, on two wheels.

and come fall I should get back to being busy at VLP, another mess I started.

but in the meantime find something constructive to do with your life. start living.

Can't Hit Open Putts wrote:I'll have to disagree with you on these points Josh.#1 If you go back and check the work days he scheduled, you'll see they confict with some other event after that event has been posted! Seems to me he didn't want help from disc golfers?! I'm too lazy for that!besides....when is there not a workday & tournament the same weekend?

#2 Hurricane Shoals is an invalid course because it is too repetitious on land that is anything but repetitious! I never thought of it being repetative

#3 Come up with a decent layout and will personally pull out the 6 invalid holes in the open in any kind of weather! It wouldn't take much, and the current course is pretty good!

Slam! (you slammed me, not me slammed you)

You owe me a chocolate cheese cake for that one![/quote]How have I slammed you? I think you're just fishing for a free dessert (). #'s 1,2,3 and 4 are all the same shot aren't they? There are two holes in the woods (good tight anhyzers) that are carbon copies of each other. There are at least 4 more in the woods that rely totally on the luck of the disc missing a tree than the skill of the golfer hitting a tight fairway. The last time I played it I could have left my bag at #9 and walked the woods with my buzz and putter. Lookin at the land, couldn't you see the course winding in and out of the woods with holes that played out of them or back in?

Cheesecake is more of a fall\winter dessert, how about a nice keylime pie??[/quote]

Question about those baskets for sale: Are they the same as the ones at Victor Lord? If so, I was out there 2 weeks ago, and some kids bent 3 baskets over simply by grabbing the top and pulling. We bent them back upright, but it was only a quick fix---all of those poles will have to be replaced. Are the same poles on the baskets for sale that this post is (supposed to be) about?

Gotta say, I really liked Victor Lord, but those poles seem like a cheap shortcut that will cause problems.

luke wrote:Question about those baskets for sale: Are they the same as the ones at Victor Lord? If so, I was out there 2 weeks ago, and some kids bent 3 baskets over simply by grabbing the top and pulling. We bent them back upright, but it was only a quick fix---all of those poles will have to be replaced. Are the same poles on the baskets for sale that this post is (supposed to be) about?

Gotta say, I really liked Victor Lord, but those poles seem like a cheap shortcut that will cause problems.

Hey Luke, i would love to see some of the footage you shot that day at VLP. Any way i can check that out?

Question about those baskets for sale: Are they the same as the ones at Victor Lord? If so, I was out there 2 weeks ago, and some kids bent 3 baskets over simply by grabbing the top and pulling. We bent them back upright, but it was only a quick fix---all of those poles will have to be replaced. Are the same poles on the baskets for sale that this post is (supposed to be) about?

Gotta say, I really liked Victor Lord, but those poles seem like a cheap shortcut that will cause problems.

The baskets at VLP are Modified DB-5s, the ones I have for sale are stock originals.

but those poles seem like a cheap shortcut that will cause problemsIt is a very cheap short cut!!! but you do what you can do with little or no funds.I cant afford to keep buying stuff for the course, I have let down a few sponsors that had contributed funds in the early going.but with the economy the way it is a lot of projects have stalled.. "I must be the only guy that has lost money trying to run a fund raiser event"Victor Lord could easily be the nicest DG course in North GA, But it will take around 15 to 20K to get it done..only a handful know the potential of the property. The park department may be broke, but they have allowed the use of some beautiful land. My wish is that someday soon I could convince a small army of helpers to get it done.Last year I burned out a few hard dedicated workers, Mark ans Chris S, Big Dave and a few others. It will be fall before I get back to trying to finish that course, in the meantime I have gave all I can give at VLP.to put it into perspective I spent over $3500 in gas last year just driving to and from VLP. (54 miles round trip)not to mention all of the equipment that I have broken out there that belonged to me.

I now realize that my Disc Golf Dream was nothing more than a dream, it seems the only way to get support is to join the PDGA, and that is never gonna happen, as long as Brian Graham is in charge.

If you would like to know my story come out and play with me sometime, I know better than to try an post it on here.my cell # is posted at the top. I don't mind sharing my side of this whole fiasco.

I will say this, it's kind of funny how when good old Brian graham took office that the old atlanta disc golf web site went down. and this new version came along, or you could go back and read it for yourselves. I have copied alot of his slanderous remarks and gestures toward me , there is a good reason why they never forced the legal issue and I still use the name PlayDGA. Players Disc Golf, Play Disc Golf America. damn how 1 guy can cause such a threat to the mighty PDGA.Bottom line for me, he is nothing more than a dirt bag. and that's is just my opinion, I have never met the guy.

I'm not going to go back and forth with you Chuck. You and I both know that I tried to help before the course was even installed. I gave you my phone number and I tried contacting you several times to help out.

I've developed quite the relationship with members of the Tumbling Waters Society. I have a meeting setup with members of there board and members from Jackson County Parks and Rec. The meeting is being held on Wed. July 1st. You are welcome to join in and contest the issue. Fact is, they realize that the disc golf land has been under utilized and they are looking to make some changes.

I don't need your permission for anything. I've gone over your head and they seem very pleased to be dealing with an educated person for a change.

Just so you can sleep well, I don't plan on changing the entire course. I've said before and I'll say again. There are some great holes on the course. My plan is to make the course 18 holes instead of 27 and to do away with the extremely boring front 9. Some of the woods holes will be lengthened and made to utilize the woods and the open fields. I'm not trying to step on your toes or discount any of your efforts. I'm just trying to make a home course that I'm proud to call a home course.

Say what you will, continue with the name calling and hateful bashing. I won't stoop to that level anymore. I don't play very much anymore and I want to get involved in a different capacity. You're stepping down so you can play more. I'm stepping up because I don't play much anymore.

I'm not going to go back and forth with you Chuck. You and I both know that I tried to help before the course was even installed. I gave you my phone number and I tried contacting you several times to help out.

I've developed quite the relationship with members of the Tumbling Waters Society. I have a meeting setup with members of there board and members from Jackson County Parks and Rec. The meeting is being held on Wed. July 1st. You are welcome to join in and contest the issue. Fact is, they realize that the disc golf land has been under utilized and they are looking to make some changes.

I don't need your permission for anything. I've gone over your head and they seem very pleased to be dealing with an educated person for a change.

Just so you can sleep well, I don't plan on changing the entire course. I've said before and I'll say again. There are some great holes on the course. My plan is to make the course 18 holes instead of 27 and to do away with the extremely boring front 9. Some of the woods holes will be lengthened and made to utilize the woods and the open fields. I'm not trying to step on your toes or discount any of your efforts. I'm just trying to make a home course that I'm proud to call a home course.

Say what you will, continue with the name calling and hateful bashing. I won't stoop to that level anymore. I don't play very much anymore and I want to get involved in a different capacity. You're stepping down so you can play more. I'm stepping up because I don't play much anymore.

Good Luck Jay, I spoke with Jimmy today (park manger at Hurricane Shoals) about you today.and you are funny about wanting to help out, we have bumped in to each other a few time at the park, every time I was busting my hump working, and you just playing. you have never made an effort to help out. why now, I am not stepping down or away, I am just taking a break, from all the free work that I have contributed over the last 5 years. now if you want to take charge in the course clean up well that is fine with me. If you would like to get together and be educated about the course I will be more than happy to fill you in. all this butting heads on the forum is counter productive.

the course is just fine, it already has two layouts with out changing a thing, one 18 hole and the 27 hole layout. There have been many players tell me that the hurricane is there favorite course. the whole purpose of the open 9 is to get people introduced and comfortable playing disc golf. this course is the vision I had after reading all of steady eds ideas, I really do not see the need for a super long course here. I am not a fan of super long holes, I have always felt that the Hurricane is the best level playing field for all ages. a young gun has no advantage over an old hoot like myself. distance is cool if you got it. but it does not do one much good in the wood. you must be a shot maker. I wonder how many folks in Jackson county knew about disc golf before I introduced it to them. sorry I am getting off track.

the biggest problem right now is funding, the rec department is under staffed and can not lend any help right now. I can't even get prisoners out to the course to help, because there is not enough certified personnel to watch over them. If you wish to make the course better I would suggest starting by setting up a meeting for you and me to walk through the course and show me your likes and dislikes.complaining about it will not get the job done. This is open to anybody that would like in on making changes to the Hurricane.

Should I go into more detail. I approached the park with the Idea, It is my baby. I have my own set of keys to access the park.I have been appointed as the DG man at HSP by the Ditector, I have spent 5 years of my life and 4000 free hours working on and maintaining the course, so I hope this answers your?"I am the Man. If big boy wants to help out he is welcome to do so. If he thinks he is just going to barge in and take over he has another thing coming. Like I have said, jay has never done anything to help out. but that could change if he would just show up.I am always open to hear better ideas, one must be willing to show up and talk about it.

I hope this don't come off as i think i am the shisnit, I feel I am when it come to Hurricane shoals & Victor Lord, only because the energy and effort I have put towards them. I am just an avg 40something year old man, that has a family, a mortgage,and pets. and tons of responsibility.I am no different than most of you. I simply Love the game, I could care less about the PDGA, and politics about disc golf.My ambition has always been to introduce people to the sport, I have accomplish that, I have no scheme in mind to over take the world of disc golf, it is just recreational for me. I like having light hatred DG events from time to time, I don't even like calling them tournaments..

So please under stand, If you build it they will come, and If you do not pay attention, some one my try to pull the rug out from under you.

There is a lot of unused land out there at parks across Georgia, my advice is to anyone that would like to see a new course near your home contact your local park.My best bit of advice that has been most beneficial to me in selling courses is this.http://www.GA.Gov Here you will find a list for every county and, city government in GA. each one with its own web-site, were you can find all the contacts that you need in selling a DG course. I have always started with Parks and Recs directors.They sometime can pull off an approval for it with out going to public meetings. and taking years.So do a little research, make some call. tell theses people how affordable it is, and all the benifits that DG has to offer to the Community. you may be surprised with your results. thats how I have sold 5 courses and helped closed the deal on another.one last thing, do not mention the PDGA or big Tournaments to the directors, there main concern is how will the land be useful for the public.

I hope some of you get what i'm trying to say, and find this info useful, to the people that hate me that have never met me and don't know me. Sorry Ill never be able to change your opinion about me. you are set in your blind ways.

Should I go into more detail. I approached the park with the Idea, It is my baby. I have my own set of keys to access the park.I have been appointed as the DG man at HSP by the Ditector, I have spent 5 years of my life and 4000 free hours working on and maintaining the course, so I hope this answers your?"I am the Man. If big boy wants to help out he is welcome to do so. If he thinks he is just going to barge in and take over he has another thing coming. Like I have said, jay has never done anything to help out. but that could change if he would just show up.I am always open to hear better ideas, one must be willing to show up and talk about it.

This did not answer the question. How are you going to stop him. You have no authority. Sounds to me like you must have misunderstood the "ditector." Oh, and for the record, you are not the man. The man has real authority not fantasy authority.

This did not answer the question. How are you going to stop him. You have no authority. Sounds to me like you must have misunderstood the "ditector." Oh, and for the record, you are not the man. The man has real authority not fantasy authority.

Reading Is Fundamental, Inc. (RIF), founded in 1966, motivates children to read by working with them, their parents, and community members to make reading a fun and beneficial part of everyday life. RIF's highest priority is reaching underserved children from birth to age 8. Through community volunteers in every state and U.S. territory, RIF provides 4.6 million children with 16 million new, free books and literacy resources each year.

Speakin' the vernacular of the peasantry. Poor little kid, I hope she gets home all right....Professor Marvel

BAM wrote:the course is just fine, it already has two layouts with out changing a thing, one 18 hole and the 27 hole layout. There have been many players tell me that the hurricane is there favorite course.

No, it isn't. It is absolutely terrible. It is a terrible waste of land. It is like someone took a bunch of bad idea's and threw them together on one piece of land. I played there once and I will never return, unless Jay can actually get something done. However, I don't expect anyone to polish that turd anytime soon.

Well this may be off topic or maybe right where it belongs but i have a dga Mach V that im interested in gettin rid of. Its brand new basically from the bowling green am this year. Has the portable wheel for it and a plate which i think im going to keep since it says bowling green winner etc. If anybody is interested let me know i keep forgettin to take a picture of it but it'll be up in the near future. I just looked it up and it retails at $358 but im not looking for that much. Neone interested pm