Crowe being pulled from his game seems to indicate he would be int he deal. Doesn't open a 40 man spot...though Grady to the 60 i guess could fix that. Was wondering if a guy like Cunningham could be flipped as his spring has been less than impactful and not sure you keep 5 OFers (if you count Abreu as one), especially if Donald is playing some OF as well.

I don't see why we'd keep Cunningham now. Duncan has had the far superior spring (Canzler, too, for what that's worth), so I don't think there's any good reason to choose to keep Cunningham over him, nor is there good reason to keep both. Both of them are out of options, so whoever isn't making the bench might as well be DFA'd.

I am excited about this trade. Abreu isn't great, but he's an upgrade, and he comes cheap both in terms of money and trade cost, reportedly. I proposed in a previous thread that I wouldn't mind giving up Raffy Perez for him, and this is even less than that.

I like the deal... but a few things for me remain unanswered...1. Soooo.. who becomes the backup CF until Sizemore returns? Unexperienced Donald? Uhhh..2. Does this mean Jose Lopez is out?3. Who becomes DFA for Abreu? Or does Sizemore get added to 60 day DL?

Word now is Crowe may not be on the move. wondering if it may have had nothing to do with Abreu....Rays were looking for OF help with Fuld and Upton on the DL, Crowe wouldn't be the worst 2-3 week stopgap for them (though per speculation there).

A.Zajac wrote:I like the deal... but a few things for me remain unanswered...1. Soooo.. who becomes the backup CF until Sizemore returns? Unexperienced Donald? Uhhh..2. Does this mean Jose Lopez is out?3. Who becomes DFA for Abreu? Or does Sizemore get added to 60 day DL?

Choo could potentially play some CF if he had too I suppose. Donald as you said is probably the #1 backup should the Tribe acquire Abreu, and Cunningham could still potentially make the club, though not sure how good he would be there either. Would prefer to see Lopez make this club as he's had a solid spring and provides more depth at 3B. Let Donald focus on the OF as he'd be needed against lefties there anyways.

I wonder if the Tribe could try and sneak Wegs thru waivers now too as an option for the 40 man. Teams may not feel he's worth a 40man spot this late in the spring.

Seems like the deal is being held up for some reason.... Knowing the tribe I am sure M-O-N-E-Y is prolly the reason, that and whatever aspect Crowe played in the deal as he doesn't appear to be on the move anymore. Abreu is clearly on the decline and have played very few games in the OF in recent years, around 50 in LF over the past 2 seasons.

Question is how fast is his game slipping. To me it looks like it is rapidly declining and have to wonder how much difference he really makes. If he is at least average defensively in LF then there might be some value there, but depending on how the final deal pans out I could end up hating this.

I would laugh if it turns out the hold up is Abreu himself - threating to retire rather then play for the indians......

Bobby Abreu? Just demonstrates how bad our minor league system is for lack of position players. Yet all I hear on this board is how great our minor league system is.

Mark Shapiro put this franchise back to the days of Gabe Paul and now we are paying dearly for it. Patch work, smoke and mirrors, lousy drafts, Bobby Abreau and Shelly Duncan. Mirabelli should be working for Waste Management ... and there is Ross Atkins too with all his agitating adjectives.

A shame and ... the real goes to the Dolan's for not being more demanding of their team executives.

Going into this season the 2012 Indians might have two players who could have started on our 90's teams ... Santana and Cabrera (maybe at 2B).

ironmike wrote:Bobby Abreu? Just demonstrates how bad our minor league system is for lack of position players. Yet all I hear on this board is how great our minor league system is.

Mark Shapiro put this franchise back to the days of Gabe Paul and now we are paying dearly for it. Patch work, smoke and mirrors, lousy drafts, Bobby Abreau and Shelly Duncan. Mirabelli should be working for Waste Management ... and there is Ross Atkins too with all his agitating adjectives.

A shame and ... the real goes to the Dolan's for not being more demanding of their team executives.

Going into this season the 2012 Indians might have two players who could have started on our 90's teams ... Santana and Cabrera (maybe at 2B).

We had a nice wave of prospects which graduated to the majors in the last 2 years (i.e. Santana, Chiz, Kipnis, Pomeranz, and White + Marson, Pestano, ) but there certainly is a gap between those. A lot of it was Mirabeli's approach to drafting (safe picks vs. tools). I personally am more excited by the last few drafts (Lindor, Wolters, Howard, Haas, Lavisky, Lowery, Myles....). Now to balance it out, I do think Mirabeli has done a good job in running the Latin scouting (and we will see about the Pacific Rim area as well). I think people on here do believe we have a good minor league system but everyone will tell you this team needs to have guys like Santana, Kipnis, and Chiz to perform well for us to compete. But in reality we don't have the ammo to pull of a deal to fill holes with what we have at the upper levels (unless we trade the near untouchables which will keep us from competing) as guys like Weglarz and Mills have very little value (it looks like you can add LaPorta to this list too) in trade value and many of our pitchers will have to rebound from injuries to be factors (i.e. Rondon, A.Perez, Salazar, Knapp). We do have a chance to compete in the next 2 years but our margin of error is pretty low and maybe by then the next wave will start arriving on the shores of Lake Erie. With the economic system the way it is in baseball that is the only way Cleveland can compete.

There was another blurb about Trevor Crowe being involved in a trade.. The note indicated that he may have been the return for Abreu or it was a completely different trade.. Specifically, Marlon Byrd of the Cubs. With Brett Jackson POUNDING on the door for a spot on the Cubs opening day roster & Marlon Byrds contract, it would make some sense for the Indians to explore this potential, if it existed at all..

There was another blurb about Trevor Crowe being involved in a trade.. The note indicated that he may have been the return for Abreu or it was a completely different trade.. Specifically, Marlon Byrd of the Cubs. With Brett Jackson POUNDING on the door for a spot on the Cubs opening day roster & Marlon Byrds contract, it would make some sense for the Indians to explore this potential, if it existed at all..

I'd take Marlon Byrd....but the Cubs will need to cover $2-3 million of his $6.5 Mill...Can play CF and move Brantley to LF.

Yeah hoping the recent reports of the deal being dead are true, though if the Angels ate all but a $1M or so and the return was Crowe, the deal could work for the Tribe. Only regular/semi-regular that had a higher OBP than Abreu did last year on the Tribe was Hafner, so can understand why the Tribe would be interested (especially over Damon though still think he'd be better). Thing that should really worry people though is how bad Abreu was in the 2nd half.

Byrd would be a nice add if as said the Cubs ate some salary. Had a reverse split last year but hit them very well in 2010. Career splits are pretty close versus either. Nothing to get excited over but think he could provice more than Abreu. Plus probably wouldn't get as upset about losing playing time when Grady comes back as a guy like Abreu would.

I'm guessing too that the Tribe was one of the teams that inquired on Parra from Arizona. Personally would like to see Chris Young somehow but that's a likely pipedream.

Pluto writes in his morning column, the deal for Abreau could be back on.

Since Manny Ramirez was the team's first-round pick in 1991, the only other outfielders drafted, signed and developed by the Indians to have any sort of big-league careers are Trevor Crowe and Ben Francisco.

Marlon Byrd would be okay for a filler for the 2012, K's a bunch, hardly walks, but if he could rebound back up to the .293 batting average he could help. Nothing special, but when you have nothing, it's an upgrade. His salary is tipping at $7M so the Dolan's are going to need to stretch their budget if they really want to improve the team on the field ASAP.

ironmike wrote:Pluto writes in his morning column, the deal for Abreau could be back on.

Since Manny Ramirez was the team's first-round pick in 1991, the only other outfielders drafted, signed and developed by the Indians to have any sort of big-league careers are Trevor Crowe and Ben Francisco.

Yeah Tribe was pretty bad under Hart and only a little better under Shapiro (Manny was drafted when Peters was still GM).

Hermie13 wrote:Yeah Tribe was pretty bad under Hart and only a little better under Shapiro (Manny was drafted when Peters was still GM).

That's kind of semantics because Peters had turned things over to Hart before he left.....but in reality we can thank area scout Mickey White for Ramirez as from what I heard he was adamant about drafting Manny.

Hermie, you are full of baloney regarding John Hart and you could not even carry his jock strap. Amen. The more you post the more you expose yourself. Go blow smoke to some one else, I know how to duck.

Bottom line would an Indian fan take the teams put together by John Hart or Mark Shapiro. What were the results? Measure them. Only a fool would not.

Shapiro has gotten off very easy in Cleveland. Any other city in MLB he would have been long gone along with his chronies for a lack of results. After watching "Moneyball" and getting an insiders view on his lack of real baseball talent evaluation skills even more so. Shapiro even admitted in Pluto's book he did not have the baseball IQ of John Hart.

If Cuban or Dan Gilbert buys this team the first guy to go will be Shapiro.

ironmike wrote:Hermie, you are full of baloney regarding John Hart and you could not even carry his jock strap. Amen. The more you post the more you expose yourself. Go blow smoke to some one else, I know how to duck.

Bottom line would an Indian fan take the teams put together by John Hart or Mark Shapiro. What were the results? Measure them. Only a fool would not.

Shapiro has gotten off very easy in Cleveland. Any other city in MLB he would have been long gone along with his chronies for a lack of results. After watching "Moneyball" and getting an insiders view on his lack of real baseball talent evaluation skills even more so. Shapiro even admitted in Pluto's book he did not have the baseball IQ of John Hart.

If Cuban or Dan Gilbert buys this team the first guy to go will be Shapiro.

So you watched Moneyball and that gave you an inside look on Shapiro talent evaluation skills?

Perhaps you think Dolan is cheap too.

There's a place on the interwebs that shares that POV -- cleveland.com and indians.com

Hermie13 wrote:Yeah Tribe was pretty bad under Hart and only a little better under Shapiro (Manny was drafted when Peters was still GM).

That's kind of semantics because Peters had turned things over to Hart before he left.....but in reality we can thank area scout Mickey White for Ramirez as from what I heard he was adamant about drafting Manny.

That's true. But from 1992 thru 2001 (the years Hart was GM) the Indians had 14 first/supp round picks. Only 6 of those 14 picks ever made to the MLs. And really only CC did anything in the bigs. Jaret Wright may have had a good career if not for injuries. Same could be said I guess of Paul Shuey, though drafting a reliever 2nd overall was ridiculous (we converted him to a reliever his first full pro season). I believe the number was 9 or 14 under Shapiro to makes the bigs, though none have become a CC yet.

My point was more that the bad drafting isn't a phenomenon that started under Shapiro...it was a 2 decade long issue that started under Hart, which was a big reason for the fall of the organization following those great 1990 seasons. The farm system was in complete disarray when Shapiro took over following the 2001 season.