I had a non-religious outdoor ceremony and wore a strapless gown. I have incredibly broad shoulders, and everything made me look like a white linebacker if it had sleeves. Even my 80 year dconservative grandma preferred no-sleeves.

Quite frankly I don't care if the bride "prefers the party" anyways-So what if shed rather celebrate with her nearest and dearest than worry about the formalities? That to me is a personal matter not an etiquette one. It is not a matter or etiquette to dictate whether someone is religious or not, or hung up on "signing a dotted line".

For me the most important part WAS the reception- not because of the food (I barely ate) or the dancing (I rarely do) but because I got to gather together many relatives and friends who are scattered far and wide and involve them in my life. Is that really so bad? I have no god to account to, so the ceremony was only the formal government part of a commitment my new husband and I felt we'd made years ago. The reception was the first "event" we hosted as husband and wife, and meant a lot to us. I fail to see how fabric covering my upper arms would have changed my feelings in that regard.

If miss manners cannot account for the motives of agnostics, atheists or secular humanists like myself, I am afraid I cannot take her advise from now on, as I do not feelmy lack of organized religion affects my manners.

Just as an alternate non-religious opinion, the ceremony was important to me as were the promises I made to my husband. I don't see Miss Manners as dismissing non-religious ceremonies, just sticking to the more traditional view that the 'event' is the ceremony - the formal vows made by the bride and groom that joins them as a family - and the reception is the celebration of the event.

I just don't understand the connection. How is wearing a strapless gown at all related to whether a bride cares more about the ceremony or reception?

I agree with the PP who said that this is a good example of why Miss Manners' opinion shouldn't be treated as gospel. She's good with formal etiquette (e.g. How should I set up the place settings at a formal dinner I'm hosting) but her opinions on etiquette in everyday life seem to be stuck four or five decades ago. Things change.

Traditionally, stapless gowns were reserved for balls, gala's, and parties. Not for a more somber religious ceremony. If you perscribe to this stance, dressing in a strapless dress implies you are dressing more for the reception "the party" than you are for the more somber religious ceremony.

and I wanted to mention that Miss Manners would have been very happy with Audrey1962 grandmother. I think she wishes all brides would do the same today. Posted by: audrey1962My grandmother's wedding gown was strapless - and she married in 1949, so strapless is certainly nothing new (although she did have a matching jacket she wore for religious ceremony).

I don't care for strapless dresses much myself and if it was the style I was needing to wear, I'd look for a way to put in wide straps or sleeves. But this is simply me. For one thing, strapless looks like a fidgeting nightmare. I can't imagine being at an event, and moving around, dancing, etc., without having to hitch up the bodice or generally move it back in place many times over the course of wearing the garment. Although they can be really pretty, such as the green one Hilary Swank wore to the Oscars when she won her first award remains a fave celeb gown of mine.

A well made strapless gown will have enough support that it stays up even if you jump up and down. My wedding dress is being made with a built in bra and boning so the structure is more like a corset than a typical dress.

Also, my "second runner up" dress had fairly thick straps - and also a neckline that showed some cleavage. The strapless gown I chose, however, can be made so that that top covers far beyond the cleavage line. I think it's a bit inane to debate whether mostly covered shoulders + cleavage is better/worse than uncovered shoulders + no cleavage.

Yep I have "generous assets" and I didn't need to adjust my gown- the boning sat on my waist so t basically couldn't slide past my hips. A properly constructed strapless wedding gown is not at all the same as a regular strapless dress in terms of support and structure.

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When I married in 1987 I wore an off-the-shoulder Scarlett O'Hara type wedding gown with a full ballgown skirt. It was what I wanted and my Catholic church had no problem with it. My bridesmaids gowns were strapless, but very demure with a wide ruffle that covered any decollette.

When my cousin married in a very conservative Baptist church shoulders had to be covered even if it was with sheer fabric.

Yep I have "generous assets" and I didn't need to adjust my gown- the boning sat on my waist so t basically couldn't slide past my hips. A properly constructed strapless wedding gown is not at all the same as a regular strapless dress in terms of support and structure.

This is my understanding as well. There's a ton of "infrastructure" and the weight is carried by the waist.

I got married three years ago in a Catholic Cathedral in a strapless gown (my bridesmaids also wore strapless gowns), I just wore a pashmina to cover my shoulders during the ceremony, as did the other women. I took my wedding seriously, but I also wanted a pretty, flattering dress.

When I went looking for a gown, I probably tried on 30-40 and I think there was one gown that wasn't a halter or strapless and it had clear little cap sleeves (and looked terrible on me, as did the halter style) and most of the gowns I saw were also strapless or halter or one strapped (a style that doesn't appeal to me).

We also have 500 photos from our wedding, but no head shots where I looked naked

ETA- My dress also had a bulit-in bra and lots of boning and was in no danger of falling down.

I was a bit stunned by this. I wore a strapless wedding dress at my wedding more than 10 years ago. I could assure Miss Manners that I did, indeed, consider the ceremony the important part of the day, but it doesn't seem she would want to hear that.

Thoughts?

(Plus: There are still debutantes these days?)

When I was married I worn a dress that had sleeves (for the church) but the sleeves could come down for the reception. Some churches did not allow strapless dresses back then.

Yes there are still debutantes. There are the traditional debutantes (long time charitable organizations, highly selective), ethnic debutantes (where I live there are Jewish, Greek and African American debutante balls) and fake debutante balls (like modeling schools). I do not live in the south.

Several different Hispanic cultures celebrate a girl's Quinceañera, which can be every bit as formal as a wedding, though the major difference is that the dress is typically pale pink, not white.

I had the impression that the poster was trying to purchase a debutante gown (many debs wear a wedding gown and then wear it when they get married) and thought there was a difference in the two dresses.

When we got married, my husband had one request about the dress - not strapless. His contention is that a very small minority of women look good in a strapless wedding gown. A halter would be fine, just not fully strapless.

I didn't have a problem with that, and I found two gowns fit the requirements that I would have been quite happy with. I ended up getting the one from the bridal consignment store in my sister's neighborhood.

I was really hoping that the royal wedding would bring a surge of non-strapless gowns, if only to give women more choice. Sadly, it was not to be.

Having looked at 100+ dress collections online this year, I can say with certainty that most major designers have some version of the royal wedding gown with a sweetheart neckline and lace sleeves. A cursory search on a large site found me these:

Since dresses have to be ordered 4-8 months out, there is a time lag between when designs debut and when it becomes clear if the trend has taken off or not. It's still possible that there will be a lot more brides in sleeved dresses this wedding season.

My wedding dress was strapless, and I'm offended at the notion I didn't take my wedding seriously.

IME though, dresses with straps and cap sleeves are gaining popularity. Long sleeves are unlikley to ever be big in Australia. Winter weddings are uncommon (and even then, a cape or bolero is more popular than attached long sleeves), and summer is far, far too hot.