To my Muslim brothers and sisters

Menaz - Josephus was a Jewish Scholar and Historian alive during Yeshua's days. He was NOT a Christian (He was a Jew) and he documented Yeshua's life, his parents (Yosef and Mariam) and he recognized that he was a "Wise Teacher" and that he gathered many Jews to him (followers) and was crucified by Pilot for causing fear of an uprising." That is a historical account, unbiased and staight to the point. If you don't accept that as evidence then you have to deny absolutely every historical human being's existence simply because there's no proof. There's no proof that he was the "Son of God" and "Messiah" . . . no.THAT requires you to either believe it or reject it (depending upon your faith) . . . But to say that he didn't even exist is just ignorant. Do some research on the name "Yeshua" and not "Jesus" and you'll find the "real man."

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He did not exist. there is NOTHING, NOTHING, THAT TRACES BACK TO JESUS.
No lineage. No NOTHING. As for Josephus, The authenticity has been disput since 17th century. I'm not accepting shit, Especially when it's not in hebrew and has been translated into greek.

Wrong, only specific parts were changed (parts that agreed with him). It is obvious because the flow of the language changes in the Greek version.

It is really sad how people are trying to erase this man's life.
You should be ashamed of yourself. The guy died trying teach a better way of living and you're running around in your idiocy telling people that he never lived.

Are you claiming that the disciples weren't real people?
I don't understand how somebody could be so stupid to believe that the disciples were real people and that Israel (and Rome) at the time acknowledged that they crucified the man the disciples wrote about named Yeshua . . . yet you're claiming that Yeshua didn't exist.

Wrong, only specific parts were changed (parts that agreed with him). It is obvious because the flow of the language changes in the Greek version.

It is really sad how people are trying to erase this man's life.
You should be ashamed of yourself. The guy died trying teach a better way of living and you're running around in your idiocy telling people that he never lived.

Are you claiming that the disciples weren't real people?
I don't understand how somebody could be so stupid to believe that the disciples were real people and that Israel (and Rome) at the time acknowledged that they crucified the man the disciples wrote about named Yeshua . . . yet you're claiming that Yeshua didn't exist.

This thread is about Islam, remember.
You are so annoying.

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"No historians of the time mention Jesus. Suetonius (65-135) does not. Pliny the Younger only mentions Christians (Paulists) with no comment of Jesus himself. Tacitus mentions a Jesus, but it is likely that after a century of Christian preaching Tacitus was just reacting to these rumours, or probably talking about one of the many other Messiah's of the time. Josephus, a methodical, accurate and dedicated historian of the time mentions John the Baptist, Herod, Pilate and many aspects of Jewish life but does not mention Jesus. (The Testimonium Flavianum has been shown to be a third century Christian fraud). He once mentions a Jesus, but gives no information other than that he is a brother of a James. Jesus was not an unusual name, either. Justus, another Jewish historian who lived in Tiberias (near Kapernaum, a place Jesus frequented) did not mention Jesus nor any of his miracles. It is only in the evidence of later writers, writing about earlier times, that we find a Jesus."

Yes I'm claiming jesus never existed. And without Emperical evidence
You're just going to have to accept that fact.

Plus You're reasoning is all wrong.

You claim the Messhiah will return, But how can a MAN not MAN-GOD return? He can't. You belie yourself.

"No historians of the time mention Jesus. Suetonius (65-135) does not. Pliny the Younger only mentions Christians (Paulists) with no comment of Jesus himself.

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Pliny was Roman correct? Romans despised the Christians at that time, correct?
You cannot expect a Roman to document Jewish history. That is, after all, why Josephus (a Jew) was hired by Rome to record their history in a set of books. Rome (at that time) would have had no reason to alter Josephus' book in favor of Yeshua. In fact, Josephus couldn't have said much about Yeshua in his book (other than the fact that he was a wisdom teacher and gathered many Jews and Gentiles to him, was crucified, and that his followers are 'being called Christians' by Rome)

Tacitus mentions a Jesus, but it is likely that after a century of Christian preaching Tacitus was just reacting to these rumours

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Why is that likely?
Why is it not more likely that Yeshua actually existed (as a wise man and nothing more) and simply got exaggerate by the people. Why is it more likely that a rebellion of such magnitude sprang up from Jerusalem about a man who never existed? That isn't logical at all. To believe that Jews "In Jerusalem" accepted stories of a man who was supposedly teaching in THEIR lifetime without ever actually seeing or hearing about him while it was happening is silly. Jews are the most sceptical people on this planet.

Even Jews admit that he was a real man.
I don't understand this angle that atheists take.
Why is it so hard to believe that Yeshua (a man) taught the truth, was put to death for it and became a legend of this level?

Why would his disciples (men who did actually exist) be willing to die for their faith in a man who didn't?

Josephus, a methodical, accurate and dedicated historian of the time mentions John the Baptist, Herod, Pilate and many aspects of Jewish life but does not mention Jesus. (The Testimonium Flavianum has been shown to be a third century Christian fraud).

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By who?

Just so you know, the whole thing hasn't been proven a fraud. Just the parts which Christians altered to make Jesus "God." The part about him being a wise man and teacher, gathering followers to himself and being crucified" was not. The addition to it was.

He once mentions a Jesus, but gives no information other than that he is a brother of a James. Jesus was not an unusual name, either.

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You mean Yeshua?
Jesus was not a name at all among Jews.

Justus, another Jewish historian who lived in Tiberias (near Kapernaum, a place Jesus frequented) did not mention Jesus nor any of his miracles.

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Because the miracles were made up and Yeshua was just expounding on wisdom teachings. He was a Nazarene Essene. Justus was not. (Keep in mind that Justus also used a Roman name. A Jew who used a Roman name at that time was working for Rome.)

It is only in the evidence of later writers, writing about earlier times, that we find a Jesus."

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I hear that statement all the time.
It just isn't true.

Yes I'm claiming jesus never existed. And without Emperical evidence
You're just going to have to accept that fact.

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That's on you.
Doesn't really matter whether you believe he existed or not.
I just find it sad that you accept he had disciples and that his disciples were real people (or do you deny their existence also?) and you accept that they were willing to die to speak about him, yet you deny his existence. Why would a group of men make up a man's existence (whose mother, brothers and family were still alive) [whose family members were priests, whose mother was raised in the temple] and teach it to a people who were alive when these things supposedly happened and in the places that they supposedly happened? How do you argue that?

I mean, I've heard the "Jesus didn't exist" argument before. In fact, everytime I hear it, it's always the same exact reasons . . . which makes me believe that those saying it have all gotten it from the same bullshit sources. But hey, whatever.

Plus You're reasoning is all wrong.

You claim the Messhiah will return, But how can a MAN not MAN-GOD return? He can't. You belie yourself.

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I do believe in the Mashiach.
The Messiah is the "Anointed One"
The Buddha is the "Awakened One"

Yes, I believe that the Mashiach will return.
The Messiah will return.
Yeshua Ben Yosef will not.

The Messiah comes to every age, to a newly established area of the world, for each phase and cycle. He always teaches the poor and focuses on those who are neglected and he has ALWAYS refused a position of power. This time he will be placed in the highest role known to man, but he will not abuse it or use it for his own personal gain. He won't even act like you would expect a King to act. And he will balance out the scales. That is what I believe.

I believe that:
Guatama Buddha belonged to the "Age of Aries."
Yeshua Mashiach belonged to the "Age of Pisces."
The next one will come to the "Age of Aquarius." (He will not be a Jew)

The Messiah (Or Buddha) is always a Virgo (Virgin) born male child and always teaches the same doctrine. But he is ONLY A MAN and nothing more. He is just a wisdom teacher. He teaches people how to live a pure and peaceful life. He is somebody that you can turn to for answers to any situation and somehow he will have the wisdom to judge the situation correctly.

The energy (the spirit) that is within you will leave your body when your body gives out. That energy will one day have another form. There will be no memory of this "you" because memory belongs to the mind. The same applies to the Mashiach. The Mashiach (Messiah) is not the same person coming back physically. It is the same "energy" taking on a new form (NOT consciously, it's determined by something we cannot yet understand with words).

Every human being has an energy within them.
That energy is separated from all others while in the form.
When it leaves the form it joins with those others.
When it returns to a form it is again divided.
What we do in this "age" or during this "period" will effect us all when we have different forms. Some who are the predators in this life may wind up being prey in the next. I don't know how it works entirely. I'm not going to pretend to have scientific ways of explaining it. Maybe if I study math more in depth and get more into physics and astronomy (study of planets, galaxies, etc) and dive more into science . . . who knows? This is the best I can do with words though, right now.

That is faith.
I can provide you no evidence for that.
I won't even argue it. If you don't believe, hey . . . whatever.
If you live the doctrine that he teaches, it doesn't matter if you believe in him or not.

Pliny was Roman correct? Romans despised the Christians at that time, correct? You cannot expect a Roman to document Jewish history. That is, after all, why Josephus (a Jew) was hired by Rome to record their history in a set of books. Rome (at that time) would have had no reason to alter Josephus' book in favor of Yeshua. In fact, Josephus couldn't have said much about Yeshua in his book (other than the fact that he was a wisdom teacher and gathered many Jews and Gentiles to him, was crucified, and that his followers are 'being called Christians' by Rome)

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Who are you trying to convince? me or yourself?
I read the info. I'm not changing my mind on something
scholars agree on. Josephus book is a third century fraud.

Why is that likely?
Why is it not more likely that Yeshua actually existed (as a wise man and nothing more) and simply got exaggerate by the people. Why is it more likely that a rebellion of such magnitude sprang up from Jerusalem about a man who never existed? That isn't logical at all. To believe that Jews "In Jerusalem" accepted stories of a man who was supposedly teaching in THEIR lifetime without ever actually seeing or hearing about him while it was happening is silly. Jews are the most sceptical people on this planet.

Even Jews admit that he was a real man.
I don't understand this angle that atheists take.
Why is it so hard to believe that Yeshua (a man) taught the truth, was put to death for it and became a legend of this level?

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there called judeo-christians.

The majority of those beliefs only came into existence after the persecution by Nero and the tragedy of 70 C.E. Many of these beliefs are based on the pagan legends about the gods Tammuz, Osiris, Attis, Dionysus and the sun god Mithras. Other myths about Jesus appear to be based on various different historical people such as the convicted criminals Yeishu ben Pandeira and ben Stada, and the crucified false Messiahs Yehuda, Theudas and Benjamin, but none of these people can be regarded as an historical Jesus.

I'm not atheist, Don't even imply a Ad hominem argument.

Because there is no evidence. Nothing.

ossary of james. everything fake.

Why would his disciples (men who did actually exist) be willing to die for their faith in a man who didn't?

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How do you know they existed? None of them wrote the books on jesus.

Just so you know, the whole thing hasn't been proven a fraud.

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The Testimonium Flavianum work has been shown to be a third century fraud. You can either except this or keep denying the truth.
The whole thing is a 3 centruy fraud.

You mean Yeshua?
Jesus was not a name at all among Jews.

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In the Testimonium Flavianum it jesus is refered to as Iesous.

Smantics mean nothing to me here,

yeshua - hebrew.
Iesous - greek.
Jesus - english.

All bullshit.

"Yahshua’s name was not known to most translators at the time. Jewish Masoretic priests, around the 6th century A.D., created the name Jesus by changing the vowel point from the letter "a" to "e" in the Tetragrammaton YHWH. This resulted in changing the pronunciation from Yah to Yeh."

It's a change in translation nothing more. However, the name is not our argument. jesus as a man is. Do not red herring. I'll be saying the 17th centruy name jesus. You can say whatever you want. it's just a name.

Because the miracles were made up and Yeshua was just expounding on wisdom teachings. He was a Nazarene Essene. Justus was not. (Keep in mind that Justus also used a Roman name. A Jew who used a Roman name at that time was working for Rome.)

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If the mircales were made up then so was Jesus.
Justus never mentioned Jesus period.

I hear that statement all the time.
It just isn't true.

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Maybe you should listen. But if your faith is in a MAN, then it's possible jesus is your Idol. jesus didn't exist there is no proof. If I had a nickle for everytime I heard some creationist say jesus existed I have a shit load of nickles. These people are stupid they don't follow science. Without proof, it does not exist, the only way it exist is by faith. I don't have faith, therefore jesus never existed. Plus placing faith into another person is idoltry.

That's on you. Doesn't really matter whether you believe he existed or not.I just find it sad that you accept he had disciples and that his disciples were real people (or do you deny their existence also?) and you accept that they were willing to die to speak about him, yet you deny his existence. Why would a group of men make up a man's existence (whose mother, brothers and family were still alive) [whose family members were priests, whose mother was raised in the temple] and teach it to a people who were alive when these things supposedly happened and in the places that they supposedly happened? How do you argue that?

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First off, it's not on me. It is on empirical proof. And you have none. You are arguing because you have no evidence.

How do I know they were willing to die to speak about him?
because the bible says so? Sorry I don't by into fairytales.
I wasn't there, neither were you.

Jesus never had a KID peroid. There is no DNA evidence to this day. (you didn't mention this but it had to be said). There is no holy grail. And no the holy grail is not john the bapist head. Mason CT's are retarded.

(In noway do I believe what I'ma about to pointout is reality)

jesus brothers came from Joseph's other marriage (first wife remains unnamed). jesus was the first child between Joseph and mary. But creastionist forget one logical piece to the puzzle. There is no evidence Joseph is JESUS son ( jesus didn't come from the david blood line (kindom of david), therefore jesus can not even be a KING. The bible says it was not Joseph's but gods immucanant conception. The Quran says An angel. Other heresay mentions a roman soilder.

Nothing mentions who the baby's daddy was for centain. but if Socratic method have taught me anything it's contradiction makes it invalid.

And if deductive reasoning taught me anything, as murray povich would say....Drum roll please, Joseph You are NOT THE FATHER.

If the bible was such the TRUTH? why would you need to go to other sources of information? All you've done is replaced the bible for more fraudulent information. To which you have to keep defending like it was the word of the bible. Jesus the man never existed. Infact the Gnostic claim Simon of Cyrene barred the cross not jesus. Point is it's all bullshit that belies itself.

I mean, I've heard the "Jesus didn't exist" argument before. In fact, everytime I hear it, it's always the same exact reasons . . . which makes me believe that those saying it have all gotten it from the same bullshit sources. But hey, whatever.

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Really? I've heard from thousands of creationist jesus does exit, Yet when you show them point blank they still insist.It is mind blowing creationist go on nothing more than a whim. It's even more mind blowing creationist try to alter history just make jesus exist in any form.

I do believe in the Mashiach.
The Messiah is the "Anointed One"
The Buddha is the "Awakened One"

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Good for your beliefs.

Yes, I believe that the Mashiach will return.The Messiah will return. Yeshua Ben Yosef will not.The Messiah comes to every age, to a newly established area of the world, for each phase and cycle. He always teaches the poor and focuses on those who are neglected and he has ALWAYS refused a position of power. This time he will be placed in the highest role known to man, but he will not abuse it or use it for his own personal gain. He won't even act like you would expect a King to act. And he will balance out the scales. That is what I believe.

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Jesus was never a king, therefore your NEW AGE MESSIAH, will not be a king-like in any form.But you can believe the rest hokus pokus. putting faith into a human being is idolatry. You might be the one tricked by the light bearer of venus when the time comes. You are intitled to believe that. JUST DON'T PUSH ON ME.

I believe that:
Guatama Buddha belonged to the "Age of Aries."
Yeshua Mashiach belonged to the "Age of Pisces."
The next one will come to the "Age of Aquarius." (He will not be a jew

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He will not be a JEW? When this does not happen what will you do?
Invent a guy that is close to perfect to pass off as Mashiach?
And Israel would never accept a none jew as saviour.
And this does not explain how the world ends.
all it explains is new leadership in a new age.

that's just my opinion on your faith.

The Messiah (Or Buddha) is always a Virgo (Virgin) born male child and always teaches the same doctrine. But he is ONLY A MAN and nothing more. He is just a wisdom teacher. He teaches people how to live a pure and peaceful life. He is somebody that you can turn to for answers to any situation and somehow he will have the wisdom to judge the situation correctly.

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My I'm sorry, but I can't accept that bullshit. But more power to you.

The energy (the spirit) that is within you will leave your body when your body gives out. That energy will one day have another form. There will be no memory of this "you" because memory belongs to the mind. The same applies to the Mashiach. The Mashiach (Messiah) is not the same person coming back physically. It is the same "energy" taking on a new form (NOT consciously, it's determined by something we cannot yet understand with words).

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Maybe, unconscious Reincarnation works. Jesus never existed, therefore to me there is no reincarnation of jesus's energy to support this. But believe it by all means. I condone people practicing any kind of religion they wish. As long as it isn't pushed on me. And you are not pushing it on me nolonger. You are explaining it. All I ever wanted to hear is it's YOUR BELIEF. that's it.

Every human being has an energy within them.
That energy is separated from all others while in the form.
When it leaves the form it joins with those others.
When it returns to a form it is again divided.
What we do in this "age" or during this "period" will effect us all when we have different forms. Some who are the predators in this life may wind up being prey in the next. I don't know how it works entirely. I'm not going to pretend to have scientific ways of explaining it. Maybe if I study math more in depth and get more into physics and astronomy (study of planets, galaxies, etc) and dive more into science . . . who knows? This is the best I can do with words though, right now.

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To me it sounds like the same bullshit but different slant on the story.
NEXT LIFE? you'd have a better shot at selling it as THE NEW AGE.
Which really isn't a NEXT LIFE, it's 2012 on the Mayan calendar. Well then you'd be studing chemistry, earth sciences, social sciences, biological sciences, and physical equations to make a correlation between science and the ENERGY OF JESUS SECOND COMING into a NEW AGED Mashiach. Anyone could be born an Aquarius in 2012. there could be three or four Aquarius born in 2012. Who all grow up to do NOTHING even close to what you've mentioned.

I can never believe in that. I would never make those fallacies of coincidence just to believe in something. However, it would make a great movie.

That is faith.
I can provide you no evidence for that.
I won't even argue it. If you don't believe, hey . . . whatever.
If you live the doctrine that he teaches, it doesn't matter if you believe in him or not.He is just a part of the evolutionary process on this earth.

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I would never argue your faith.

He has nothing to do with evolution, Because he never existed. Do you, just don't push on ME.

He will not be a JEW? When this does not happen what will you do?
Invent a guy that is close to perfect to pass off as Mashiach?
And Israel would never accept a none jew as saviour.
And this does not explain how the world ends.
all it explains is new leadership in a new age.

that's just my opinion on your faith.

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It will happen. If only by necessity, it will happen.

sorry, but I can't accept that

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(This is my faith) Like I said, it doesn't matter whether you do or whether you don't. What matters is how you live and what you do during your life. You are the one who will either live in peace (heaven) or in suffering (hell) while you are here. There is no heaven or hell waiting for you after your body dies. That's nonsense. You know it as well as I do. Those stories were designed for the simple people who cannot do good simply for the sake of doing good. They need a reward in their mind to keep them in check. It also makes the leaders more significant to the masses when they believe them to be "prophets" or "divine". . .

Maybe, unconscious Reincarnation works. Jesus never existed, therefore to me there is no reincarnation of jesus's energy to support this. But believe it by all means. I condone people practicing any kind of religion they wish. As long as it isn't pushed on me. And you are not pushing it on me nolonger. You are explaining it. All I ever wanted to hear is it's YOUR BELIEF. that's it.

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Let me explain a little more in depth: (Again, this is what I believe . . . I cannot yet prove it. Maybe with time through Physics I will) The entire Universe is made up of electrical charges. All throughout space are brief sparks of energy (everywhere). However, within galaxies that energy is much more organized. Within our world (earth) we have those same currents of energy taking place. People believe that the world today is different than the world yesterday and different from the world of tomorrow. They believe that people have changed and can change. I believe that they can change, only if it is in them to change. We are all of different currents. We are all made up of different elements, under different signs, and function according to these elements. To deny that, is foolish. Numerology and Astrology is proof enough. Now, I plan on pursuing it more in depth (in a scientific manner, unlike the new age people and whatever). ALL worship of God was actually worship of stars. The name "El" came from the Canaanites and was "Saturn" thus Jews celebrate Sabbath on Satur-N-day. Christian worship of the "Son" or "Sun" of God is celebrated on "Sun-day" . . . it's all very basic.

What all the religions call God is founded off very basic elementary astrology. The stories were invented and embraced as factual truth (even though they're not) and those stories still stand today, leaving mankind stagnant in our evolution.

Now, the entire religious world believes in a coming Mashiach who will "lead them into all truth" (as Yeshua said in "their bible") The Muslims expect it, the Jews expect it, The Christians expect it and Buddhists expect it. Those religions WILL NOT go away until he comes. It's just a fact. Once a man takes on that role and unites the world, brings solutions to world problems and teaches the truth in it's totality (as much as is possible at this time in our existence) then there will be no more need for Western Religions which depend on this "Mashiach." All of them conclude with the Mashiach. All of them conclude with this man. If this man does not come, these religions will not end. They will continue to kill and fight and die for their belief in this coming man. He must come. If that means somebody must become him, well . . . it must be. There is no other option. Too many people believe in it (whether it is true or not). Like I said, we have the power to make the unreal real if we believe it strongly enough and there are enough others who share the same delusion.

To me it sounds like the same bullshit but different slant on the story.
NEXT LIFE? you'd have a better shot at selling it as THE NEW AGE.
Which really isn't a NEXT LIFE, it's 2012 on the Mayan calendar. Well then you'd be studing chemistry, earth sciences, social sciences, biological sciences, and physical equations to make a correlation between science and the ENERGY OF JESUS SECOND COMING into a NEW AGED Mashiach. Anyone could be born an Aquarius in 2012. there could be three or four Aquarius born in 2012. Who all grow up to do NOTHING even close to what you've mentioned.

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You're getting wrapped in words and titles. "Next Life" is a term that Religious people use. It doesn't mean a "Next World" it means a "Next Phase" or "Age" in the history of mankind. It is an astrological term and it is VERY scientific. Yes, the Mayan Calendar mentions it as well as the Tsalagi Faith. However, I never said that this man would be born in 2012. He will lead at that time. He's already here.
He's just a man, like you and everybody else. He isn't a savior God-Man and he won't come on the clouds with chariots of fire and angels all around him.

He's just a normal man with an extremely developed mind (the evolved human being) and amazing ideas. That's it, that's all. He will end all the world religions and bring humanity together. He will bring forth the one and only TRUE religion and that is the "Religion of Truth" or what you would call "Science" . . .

He will explain what the force is that humanity has been calling "God" for all these years and gradually the world will begin to swiftly change. Human beings will see a peaceful age never known to the world prior to now and it will be a major turning event in our existence. Thousands of years from now when people are traveling through space they will know about this moment (which we are living in).
This moment will bring the world together so that we can pursue much bigger objectives than conquering land on this planet like dumbass barbarians.

I can never believe in that. I would never make those fallacies of coincidence just to believe in something. However, it would make a great movie.

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It will make great history.
Funny thing is, this "King Mashiach" is just going to be the first of the evolved human beings. That means that all who follow for the next several thousand years (8-9 thousand years) will consider him no different from themselves. He'll just be the one who made the obvious, obvious to the people of today. The people of the future will think of the religious fanatics of today as primates.

As for the Jews not accepting a Non-Jew Mashiach. They stole the concept of the Mashiach from Buddhists. Buddha got it from India and India got it from Egypt.
In order for mankind to evolve, there must be a first evolved man/woman. That's how it happened thousands of years ago and that's how it will happen again.
That person's offspring will enherit their DNA and those who comes through them will be the rules over the gradually evolving masses who will just finally be catching up to this "King Mashiach" in about 8,000 years. Then another one will come forward.

This is how it will always be.

Why?
I don't have that answer and I'm not going to pretend to.
It just is.

You miss understood me. what I asked were just questions about your belief. And statements I made were not a rejection of your belief but a rejection of your belief for me. I was thinking outloud that your beliefs could never work for me. Thats all.

(This is my faith) Like I said, it doesn't matter whether you do or whether you don't. What matters is how you live and what you do during your life. You are the one who will either live in peace (heaven) or in suffering (hell) while you are here. There is no heaven or hell waiting for you after your body dies. That's nonsense. You know it as well as I do. Those stories were designed for the simple people who cannot do good simply for the sake of doing good. They need a reward in their mind to keep them in check. It also makes the leaders more significant to the masses when they believe them to be "prophets" or "divine". . .

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I agree it doesn't matter. But If I was you I'd change my belief into a belief for interesting subjects and Good morals over bad morals and stupidity. And I agree uninformed people can not grasp what infromed people have. It's like in revelations uninformed people can't grasp the seven headed dragon repersentes the seven hills inside ROME, or that John the Schizo jew who was exodus from judah was calling ROME THE WHORE not a WOMAN. They also don't understand that armageddon was a place called Hill of Megiddo where the END OF DAYS Supposively took place. These same uniformed people don't understand the MARK OF THE DEVIL 666 when translated from hebrew stands for NERO. NERO was the ANTI-CHRIST according to John the Divine (schizo). The reason these uninformed people interpreted it incorrectly is based on the fact John supposively died, And therefore could not Tell these people how it was met to be interpreted (they're also not followers of the hebrew language). and Psychologist agree john's revelations were written by a man with Schizophrenia. It's all Bullshit, these evangelicals condure up because they refuse to accept the faith is (Greek of christianty not Jesus of chirstianity).

I don't find any religion interesting AS IN I would follow it.
But studing the varations of religions is interesting.

Let me explain a little more in depth: (Again, this is what I believe . . . I cannot yet prove it. Maybe with time through Physics I will) The entire Universe is made up of electrical charges. All throughout space are brief sparks of energy (everywhere). However, within galaxies that energy is much more organized. Within our world (earth) we have those same currents of energy taking place. People believe that the world today is different than the world yesterday and different from the world of tomorrow. They believe that people have changed and can change. I believe that they can change, only if it is in them to change. We are all of different currents. We are all made up of different elements, under different signs, and function according to these elements. To deny that, is foolish. Numerology and Astrology is proof enough. Now, I plan on pursuing it more in depth (in a scientific manner, unlike the new age people and whatever). ALL worship of God was actually worship of stars. The name "El" came from the Canaanites and was "Saturn" thus Jews celebrate Sabbath on Satur-N-day. Christian worship of the "Son" or "Sun" of God is celebrated on "Sun-day" . . . it's all very basic.

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Not even Sir isaac newton came to a rational conclusion in, Observations Upon the Prophecies of Daniel or in the Apocalypse of St. John and he used Mathamatics and Pyshics. However, in 2060 the world will end according to him. And The zodaic signs are Supersitious Greek methologies based on Gods and godesses in creature-like forms but than where later allegoried onto Jesus and human characters of the Bible. Saturn and Satan are the same words. They rest on the devils day. Speaking of hoildays, happy hanukkah to the jews.

I should speak on Pesach, Because Christians doctrine completely runined the fucking rememberance Of Jews freedom from Egypt in the last supper. But It's preachy and not necessary.

And Correct "Son" is a pagan belief correlating with Winter solstices on "sun-day".

basic to us, not to them.

We should just become REAL MASONS and say fuck it.
I've thought about be coming one for sometime now.
My godfather was one.

What all the religions call God is founded off very basic elementary astrology. The stories were invented and embraced as factual truth (even though they're not) and those stories still stand today, leaving mankind stagnant in our evolution.

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I agree.
it's all allegory, people need to wake up.
Astrology doesn't make God or jesus real.
It makes Greek methological astrological Allegories.
But that doesn't answer HOW anything came to be.
We will never know How until were dead. or until emperical evidence is found to explain it.

Now, the entire religious world believes in a coming Mashiach who will "lead them into all truth" (as Yeshua said in "their bible") The Muslims expect it, the Jews expect it, The Christians expect it and Buddhists expect it. Those religions WILL NOT go away until he comes. It's just a fact. Once a man takes on that role and unites the world, brings solutions to world problems and teaches the truth in it's totality (as much as is possible at this time in our existence) then there will be no more need for Western Religions which depend on this "Mashiach." All of them conclude with the Mashiach. All of them conclude with this man. If this man does not come, these religions will not end. They will continue to kill and fight and die for their belief in this coming man. He must come. If that means somebody must become him, well . . . it must be. There is no other option. Too many people believe in it (whether it is true or not). Like I said, we have the power to make the unreal real if we believe it strongly enough and there are enough others who share the same delusion.

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Yeah the religious world, But not the people in my world.
There would also be no more Sunni beliefs awaiting the Mashiach.
We already of TONS OF PEOPLE LIKE THAT, their called ATHEIST,
DEIST, AND SECULAR PROGRESSIVES. ATHEISM, However failed during
the enlightenment of the 16th centruy (La mettrie wrote - The Universe will only be happy when it is atheist.) So it's pretty much up to the secular progressives to expose religion. And bring forth the age of reason part 2.

Inoder for the Mashiach to come, The jews must first rebuild the Temple of Juerslem agian. (nero is 666). That Nero had swagger,LOL. And with muslims in the way I can't see them ever rebuilding it.

(I'm just gonna speak here on a thought, i'm Not debating a thing.)

Funny thing about people is they like to compare themselves to mythological deities. They do it because they want to feel more powerful than they really are. For instance, louie the 14th not only compared himself to the SUN-GOD (RA) but also renamed himself after the SUN-GOD (RA).

It's like in that movie troy (which I know you like, Because it has brad pitt in it plus it's a great movie)

That little kid in the very beginning comes to achilles and tells him Agamemnon desires his sword to end the battle. The little kid then went on to explain to Achilles that the Man he had to fight was a giant, And that If he were achilles he wouldn't want to fight him, and Achilles responded back to the little kid that's why noone will remember your NAME. Best line in the whole movie.

Point is, I tend to think Someone might rise up, but he/she will be a person of some kind of delusions of granduer, imperfection, or weakness, and it will have nothing to do with religion or the messiah. They won't be perfect because they are human not Gods no matter how much they manifest on it. One thing is for sure though, The name will be remembered.

You're getting wrapped in words and titles. "Next Life" is a term that Religious people use. It doesn't mean a "Next World" it means a "Next Phase" or "Age" in the history of mankind. It is an astrological term and it is VERY scientific. Yes, the Mayan Calendar mentions it as well as the Tsalagi Faith. However, I never said that this man would be born in 2012. He will lead at that time. He's already here. He's just a man, like you and everybody else. He isn't a savior God-Man and he won't come on the clouds with chariots of fire and angels all around him.

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Yeah I know. It has nothing to do with the AFTER-LIFE. Yeah New-age as in NEW AEON (peroid of time) greek astrological signs. But it's not scientific as in a unit of scientific measure. Ok, so 2012 is when you believe someone will lead us to the promise land, fine. I never bought into the chariots, rainbows, angles, hypocrtical double edged sword nonsense either. Just don't be fooled by your messiah, Because 2012 Aquarius symbolies, double star, (venus (phony refelction) & morning star.) And the Capricorn complaments Aquarius which is ruled by Saturn. I don't even Believe in your religion, But I know it's your faith so watch out for that.

He's just a normal man with an extremely developed mind (the evolved human being) and amazing ideas. That's it, that's all. He will end all the world religions and bring humanity together. He will bring forth the one and only TRUE religion and that is the "Religion of Truth" or what you would call "Science" . . .

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It's your faith man, You can call him MAN-GOD, a REAL MAN. whatever.
Thing is though, astrology isn't science, It's pseudoscience. But I would like to see pseudoscience brought to light and religion in darkness. Eclipse it eternally. That I am feeling. Leave God, religion, and Messiah out. Call it PSEUDOSCIENCES & TRUTHS.

He will explain what the force is that humanity has been calling "God" for all these years and gradually the world will begin to swiftly change. Human beings will see a peaceful age never known to the world prior to now and it will be a major turning event in our existence. Thousands of years from now when people are traveling through space they will know about this moment (which we are living in). This moment will bring the world together so that we can pursue much bigger objectives than conquering land on this planet like dumbass barbarians.

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He's just selling them another false God, but it's your belief I don't need any explaination (just commenting.) In the Book of judas, Jesus explains to judas what god is. God is your Soul. God is Not the god who created the Universe.
He asked judas to release god from his shell. Now I don't believe that conversation ever took place. Nor do I believe Judas or Jesus exist.

Mashiach is nothing more than Vernal Equinox for pagans.
Mashiach = Serapis he is both Osiris and Apis.
All that mythology comes from Egypt than to Greek Mythology than to orally passed down folktale to religious doctrine and finally church reformation.

You can add hindus to that list as well.

It will make great history.
Funny thing is, this "King Mashiach" is just going to be the first of the evolved human beings. That means that all who follow for the next several thousand years (8-9 thousand years) will consider him no different from themselves. He'll just be the one who made the obvious, obvious to the people of today. The people of the future will think of the religious fanatics of today as primates.

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Mashiach is your first posthumanist.

I didn't like the science and religion factor at first. But since you've explained it I recognize it's based on Pseudoscience which I have no problem with. which means I have no problem with your Pseudoscience belief.

Your New age will last another 545 million years.
based on Aeon.

As for the Jews not accepting a Non-Jew Mashiach. They stole the concept of the Mashiach from Buddhists. Buddha got it from India and India got it from Egypt. In order for mankind to evolve, there must be a first evolved man/woman. That's how it happened thousands of years ago and that's how it will happen again. That person's offspring will enherit their DNA and those who comes through them will be the rulers over the gradually evolving masses who will just finally be catching up to this "King Mashiach" in about 8,000 years. Then another one will come forward. This is how it will always be.

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It's puesdo science not different than Ron L hubbered just packaged differently. Nonetheless, You finally put it together and connected the dots. Prehumanist might follow. But It's not for me, I'm something of a enigma.

Like how you tied posthumanist with the evolutionary change of man.
But I do see the flaw, There always has to be a HIGHER CLASS over
a LOWER CLASS only you replace the money factor with INTELLIGENCE factor. Which can be dangerous because human nature strives for equality. The SMARTER CLASS will fuck the DUMBER CLASS, it's human nature to take advange of the ignorant and weak.

Why?
I don't have that answer and I'm not going to pretend to.
It just is.

Everything I've said . . . was complete bullshit.
That's how easy it is to create a religion and make it believable using previous religions, beliefs, etc. (Not saying you bought into it, obviously you didn't but many would)

I don't know of any "God"
If you ask me honestly, "Does God exist?"
I would say yes to you because you do not believe in God.
I would say no to a Muslim, because their view of God is barbaric.
If a person's view of God makes them a better human being, whatever.
If a person's view of God makes them act like a fuckin animal, God doesn't exist.

If the "prophets" and "sages" and "mashiachs" were in fact real men, then God is US: (As they all taught the same fundamental belief)
"The Kingdom of Heaven is within." - Yeshua (Jesus)
If they were not real men, then who knows.

What I do know is, IF they existed. They probably didn't even believe in God and simply played along with the people in the same way that parents play along for their children with the Easter Bunny and Santa Clause. It makes them smile and gets their attention.

BTW, not sure what that "Brad Pitt" comment was ensenuating . . . but I did like Troy, although I thought he did a poor job in the film in contrast to sayyyy . . . .Snatch or 12 ••••••s.

Good times all around
It does amuse me when people ask me on here why I waste my time with this nonsense. The answer is obvious. Is there something else to waste my time on that will mean more than this?