Perfect example of how gear makes this fight extremely easier literally allowing you to skip one of the harder phases. Congrats on progression being over either way

While I don't disagree at all that gear makes the fight easier, there are not that many guilds that could do this regardless. Also we didnt do this with our full guild roster so our actual ilvl was under 574 (which alot of guilds still struggle to kill with). It requires High single target dps from everyone including tanks. We realised we could do this when the first time we got to the second transition 2 healing (and a bit messy) we were around 20%.

Once we mathed out that the phase 3 dps check was easier than the p2 we decided lusting the transition was the way to go rather than phase 3. We actually considered holding lust for p4 to make it a complete joke the first time we got there but in the end decided this was the way to go.

While I don't disagree at all that gear makes the fight easier, there are not that many guilds that could do this regardless. Also we didnt do this with our full guild roster so our actual ilvl was under 574 (which alot of guilds still struggle to kill with). It requires High single target dps from everyone including tanks. We realised we could do this when the first time we got to the second transition 2 healing (and a bit messy) we were around 20%.

Once we mathed out that the phase 3 dps check was easier than the p2 we decided lusting the transition was the way to go rather than phase 3. We actually considered holding lust for p4 to make it a complete joke the first time we got there but in the end decided this was the way to go.

Your average ilvl for the kill was 575.11 (Any guild not killing it with this ilvl is not struggling because of gear). Guilds with this average ilvl should easily be able to execute this or any other strategy. I honestly just envy guilds killing it now with their main raids for the first time since it isn't the boss from hell back in November. We actually had this same strategy in mind during progression but guilds didn't have the raid dps to pull it off back then. An average raid ilvl of 2-3 levels is a world of difference when it comes to this boss.

The guild ilvl thing is wrong, you can check it by adding the peoples ilvls together and dividing. The number you refer to gives the 10 highest players ilvls, of which we did not have 2 of them in the progression kill, one is the second healer, the other had stuff going on IRL. I think we'd be just below 574, which is still much higher than earlier kills. Anyway not really the point, we killed it in a way noone else has and I thought it was interesting.

Edit : I just checked your first kill and it looks like your average ilvl is about where the group we actually had in was lol.

Perfect example of how gear makes this fight extremely easier literally allowing you use an extra healer! See what i did there?!?

You can complain all you want about the ilvl difference, but it's close to nothing compared to what you guys were using. I'm also fairly sure it's possible to do exacty this but with 2 healers. The TES transmission really isn't that hard anyways (Sure, it'll add an extra ~15-20 wipes)

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Gratz on the kill! Very weird place to bloodlust, and i couldn't stand your UI! But I guess it's always like that.

Just for the future, if you're going to have 2 people in that malice/bombardment line up thingy (2nd bombardment) you'll pretty much always spawn 3 ironstars, so it's probably better to just use 1 person and take the extra malice damage with all cooldowns. Anyways, congratz!

So please do tell, how exactly does using PE outdps UF on ST? Especially with a mastery build, on a fight which was 10min long.

The trick with this strategy isn't about overall dps, its about dpsing enough per phase. Phase 1 DPS doesn't matter that much, but I use 5 minute cds because I want them up again for P3 burn so I won't be able to use them at any other time. I don't use Ascendance on the pull but I use it during lust at the commencement of phase 2 garrosh dps during intermission. This will also be up again for P3 burn (with AG for extra healing). So basically when I get to phase 3 I have a full minute fire ele for that burn, which is our real DPS check. I actually considered going Elemental Mastery if we needed more but in the end we didn't need it.

Also I know that alot of people say PE is the worst at the moment but I dont think it really is; Most of the fights have something that make PE competitive, whether it's length of fight, downtime or aoe. The only fight I'd say there's any noticeable gain for another talent is siegecrafter in 10 man.

I also came up with tricks like the warlocks using havoc to get weapons low for the priests to abuse and for shadowburn cleave for other DPS gains, thats actually why crash is so far above everyone.

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Originally Posted by clmefgpp6f

very nice job guyz. sweet interface

Lol about the interface, I've always used standard UI because I don't really think addons are needed... In a perfect world I would like to raid where I don't know anything about bosses and learn pull to pull with no addons except dps / healing / death tracking. But noone else likes to raid like this and I raid lead which is much harder to do without addons.

Perfect example of how gear makes this fight extremely easier literally allowing you use an extra healer! See what i did there?!?

You can complain all you want about the ilvl difference, but it's close to nothing compared to what you guys were using. I'm also fairly sure it's possible to do exacty this but with 2 healers. The TES transmission really isn't that hard anyways (Sure, it'll add an extra ~15-20 wipes)

We also solo healed our first kill. This post also goes to prove that my post is indeed correct and gear greatly changes the encounter difficulty which is all that I was implying. Paragons, sanitas, and any other guild to kill it before us indeed had to fight a harder boss because it's simply the nature of the fight. A lot of the guilds we also compete with are horde which made a huge difference this tier compared to others (hello thok). Also the week or previous week we killed it the dagger exploit making phase 4 extremely easier had been patched which did enable a lot of guilds to kill it earlier then they would have without it.

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Originally Posted by desert-wind

The guild ilvl thing is wrong, you can check it by adding the peoples ilvls together and dividing. The number you refer to gives the 10 highest players ilvls, of which we did not have 2 of them in the progression kill, one is the second healer, the other had stuff going on IRL. I think we'd be just below 574, which is still much higher than earlier kills. Anyway not really the point, we killed it in a way noone else has and I thought it was interesting.

Edit : I just checked your first kill and it looks like your average ilvl is about where the group we actually had in was lol.

You may have misread the intent of my post. Like my post above I was simply stating that the difficulty of the encounter does heavily change depending on the gear of the raid and where the gear located (dps,healers,tanks etc). During our first kill we did try out what you guys did in your video but even with the ~1 ilvl difference and the allocation of the gear it was not possible at the time thus me envying you being able to use this strategy when it was not possible for us, you guys are also horde which does make a huge difference.

Not to discredit your kill or anything, but if all guilds had such luck with caster trinkets.... oh man. We managed several times 19% before the second transition, but relearning a part of a fight with one healer just wasnt worth it for us.

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Originally Posted by Telefonorm

Gratz on the kill! Very weird place to bloodlust, and i couldn't stand your UI! But I guess it's always like that.

Just for the future, if you're going to have 2 people in that malice/bombardment line up thingy (2nd bombardment) you'll pretty much always spawn 3 ironstars, so it's probably better to just use 1 person and take the extra malice damage with all cooldowns. Anyways, congratz!

Possible for guilds with 3 or less Malice', the 4th one would kill you.. unless there are 2 locks in your raid who're capable of soaking malice solo.

Another thing that gets me is the general chat when inside the Garrison. It totally reminds me of every prison film I've ever watched. The prisoners confined to their cells are talking to each other through the walls. Their chat is mostly pointless, vulgar and revolving around stuff they ll do once they get out. This is EXACTLY the content of every Garrison chat I've ever had to tolerate.

lol, we probably would have got there a bit sooner if we were lucky with loot... Thok gave us identical loot every single week I think 8 Vanq tokens and spirit cloth chests (more of a pain for siegecrafter). Then siegecrafter gave us all vanq and 1 conq. On to trinket "luck"...

Anyway... how is 5 trinkets total (on the people who were in) lucky?

We actually intended not to spawn any ironstars cause we can beat the next manifest without soaking the malice thats why i AG / ascendence there but the shadow priest didn't hear / listen that I had told him that change.

To ryuke, a bit nitpicky, but you were only really about .3 ilvls below us. Looking at your video of your kill you were at the same place going into the second transition that we were at 2 healing. We also had a 570ilvl dps was the lowest in group if you're talking about distribution. We do have very strong DPS players, most of our ranged core were in the top 50 for their class and in the 90th percentile for this tier.

Anyway not trying to move towards an argument, I thought it was cool and wanted to share.

In 20 Dark Shaman kills we only got 1 trinket drop, including all bonus rolls. Same story with Immerseus.

Another thing that gets me is the general chat when inside the Garrison. It totally reminds me of every prison film I've ever watched. The prisoners confined to their cells are talking to each other through the walls. Their chat is mostly pointless, vulgar and revolving around stuff they ll do once they get out. This is EXACTLY the content of every Garrison chat I've ever had to tolerate.

We also solo healed our first kill. This post also goes to prove that my post is indeed correct and gear greatly changes the encounter difficulty which is all that I was implying. Paragons, sanitas, and any other guild to kill it before us indeed had to fight a harder boss because it's simply the nature of the fight. A lot of the guilds we also compete with are horde which made a huge difference this tier compared to others (hello thok). Also the week or previous week we killed it the dagger exploit making phase 4 extremely easier had been patched which did enable a lot of guilds to kill it earlier then they would have without it.

"Perfect example of how gear makes this fight extremely easier literally allowing you to skip one of the harder phases. Congrats on progression being over either way."

Just seemed like a way to discredit thier kill, and I don't think it was fair. Gear will matter on all fights, even if it doesn't let you skip a phase it can make you survive an extra hit or push something faster. Wouldn't suprise me if you guys went with the 1 tank for 3rd phase thingy, while that was almost impossible to do before.

Originally Posted by UcanDoSht

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Possible for guilds with 3 or less Malice', the 4th one would kill you.. unless there are 2 locks in your raid who're capable of soaking malice solo.

Wait what? :P the first malice is nothing special, the 2nd one you spawn the first iron star. The 3rd one is nothing special and on the 4th one you use someone with a imunity hugging the person with malice, and have the rest pop defensives.

It's only ~150k every 2 seconds or so during the 4th malice, and is very easily healable. Been doing that since the start pretty much (after our first kill)

You kinda do the same thing in 25man, just that it will never pulse there and deal raid damage (a tiny bit easier)