quickly looked into it, and not sure what there is to say? This plant was designed to withstand an earthquake 10 times stronger than any earthquake that has ever been recorded in that region. Above and beyond even that, a similar plant built elsewhere was able to withstand a quake that was over *ONE HUNDRED* time stronger than any quake this plant would ever face, according to the experts.

This plant is also apparently able to withstand a direct impact from a jet, which is just amazing to me.

Even freaking greenpeace, which is normally an irrationally insane organization regarding nuclear power, is fine with indian point.

thanks!

Donger

03-16-2011, 08:44 AM

Containment vessel of No.3 reactor may have been breached.

Amnorix

03-16-2011, 08:53 AM

Containment vessel of No.3 reactor may have been breached.

Terminology here is so damn important. So containment lingo -- is there a difference between "core" and vessel".

I know you have the thing in which the reactor materials sit, and in which the control rods are inserted, and you can ahve a partial meltdown wholly contained within that . . . thing. That's what happened at Three Mile Island.

Then you've got the larger containment thingy, which I think is called the "core", which is the very big steel and concrete casing that surrounds the entire thing.

In Donger's picture they refer to the first as the "Reactor vessel" and the second as the "containment structure" (see link to his post): http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=7491684&postcount=468 (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=7491684&postcount=468)

So is "containment vessel" the "reactor vessel" or the "containment structure". If it's the first, bad but not horrible. If it's the second, then that's really not good. I've also seen "containment core" thrown around here by someone(s) -- is that "vessel" or the larger "structure"??

DaFace

03-16-2011, 08:56 AM

So...we're all gonna die?

loochy

03-16-2011, 08:59 AM

So...we're all gonna die?

The prophecy of googlegoogle has come to fruition

Donger

03-16-2011, 09:00 AM

Terminology here is so damn important. So containment lingo -- is there a difference between "core" and vessel".

I know you have the thing in which the reactor materials sit, and in which the control rods are inserted, and you can ahve a partial meltdown wholly contained within that . . . thing. That's what happened at Three Mile Island.

Then you've got the larger containment thingy, which I think is called the "core", which is the very big steel and concrete casing that surrounds the entire thing.

In Donger's picture they refer to the first as the "Reactor vessel" and the second as the "containment structure" (see link to his post): http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=7491684&postcount=468 (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=7491684&postcount=468)

So is "containment vessel" the "reactor vessel" or the "containment structure". If it's the first, bad but not horrible. If it's the second, then that's really not good. I've also seen "containment core" thrown around here by someone(s) -- is that "vessel" or the larger "structure"??

I would imagine that they are referring to the containment dome/vessel/structure, not the actual "thing" surrounding the core.

Amnorix

03-16-2011, 09:15 AM

I would imagine that they are referring to the containment dome/vessel/structure, not the actual "thing" surrounding the core.

Yeah, I think so too.

The word "containment" seems limited to the structure/building, and not to the thing that holds the core. That is more typically referred to as the reactor vessel.

So now we have two fully exposed to the atmosphere sources of radiation, it seems -- Reactor 3 and the spent fuel pool. :shake:

DJ's left nut

03-16-2011, 09:19 AM

Lets not lose sight of the fact that a chernobyl-like explosion within the middle of a reactor has been rendered virtually impossible today.

We, collectively as humans, are so god damn stupid that we easily accept huge health impacts from coal power but demand absolute zero-risk perfection from nuclear, without the slightest regard for common sense or logic, and when the least little accident happens we point to something decades ago from the infancy of our understanding of nuclear power safety, as if that would ever happen again.

Chernobyl: "woops, we did something dumb and now we have a problem" to total disaster within a few hours.

Japan, one in a f**king hundred year 9.0 earthquake and 30-foot tsunami, in a place where the plant probably should not have been built, still using old technology, and several days later a disaster still has not happened and they still might get away with no one ever actually dying from the incident.

Regardless, we might use this event to stop the building of nuclear plants in freaking Iowa, far from any fault or ocean. But coal power plants? Feel free to spew away without the slightest question about health impacts. Are we just god-damn stupid, or what?

Yeah, I'd say that just about covers it. While this may not be the absolute most accurate post currently residing on the internet (afterall, surely I lay claim to that one somewhere), it's pretty damn close.

Rep, and what not.

It saddens me to no end that we're currently hearing the death rattle for nuclear power in this country. A clean, virtually limitless energy resource based on technology that is light years beyond the gloom and doom scenarios preached by its detractors...and we're going to throw it away.

Environmentalists will continue to ignore things like the 50 year old underground coal vein fire in Centralia, PA that has been spewing toxins into the air for the last 5 decades and is expected to continue to do so for centuries. Afterall, it's those damn tsunamis that you really have to watch out for...

teedubya

03-16-2011, 09:22 AM

3 has the MOX fuel, which is plutonium, 2,000,000 times more potent than uranium.

DJ's left nut

03-16-2011, 09:24 AM

by Kerry Sheridan – Tue Mar 15, 3:35 pm ET
WASHINGTON (AFP) – The western United States is overdue for a huge earthquake and tsunami much like the one that devastated Japan last week, and is nowhere near ready to cope with the disaster, experts say.

A volatile, horseshoe-shaped area known as the Pacific Ring of Fire has recently erupted with quakes in Chile, Japan, Mexico and New Zealand, and seismologists say it is just a matter of time before the next big one hits.

Twin fault lines place the US west at risk: the San Andreas fault that scars the length of California and the lesser-known but more potent Cascadia Subduction Zone off the Pacific Coast.

A 9.0 quake in this underwater fault that stretches from the northern tip of California all the way to Canada's British Columbia could simultaneously rattle major port cities of Vancouver, Portland and Seattle, unleash a massive tsunami and kill thousands of people.

"From the geological standpoint, this earthquake occurs very regularly," said geotechnical engineer Yumei Wang, who is the geohazards team leader at the Oregon Department of Geology.

"With the Cascadia fault, we have records of 41 earthquakes in the last 10,000 years with an average of 240 years apart. Our last one was 311 years ago so we are overdue," she said.

Japan was warned more than two years ago by the international nuclear watchdog that its nuclear power plants were not capable of withstanding powerful earthquakes, leaked diplomatic cables reveal.

By Steven Swinford, and Christopher Hope 9:30PM GMT 15 Mar 2011
An official from the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) said in December 2008 that safety rules were out of date and strong earthquakes would pose a "serious problem" for nuclear power stations.

The Japanese government pledged to upgrade safety at all of its nuclear plants, but will now face inevitable questions over whether it did enough.

While it responded to the warnings by building an emergency response centre at the Fukushima plant, it was only designed to withstand magnitude 7.0 tremors. Friday's devastating earthquake was a magnitude 9.0 shock.

The news is likely to put further pressure on Japan's Prime Minister, Naoto Kan, who has been criticised for "dithering" over the country's response to the ongoing crisis at the Fukushima nuclear power plant.

Panic started to spread throughout Japan yesterday following the news that a third explosion at the plant might have damaged the protective casing around the reactor core, increasing the threat of radioactive leaks.

The government was considering using helicopters to spray water over the Fukushima site to limit the spread of radioactive particles as part of its increasingly desperate attempts to keep the situation under control.

Meanwhile the FTSE-100 share index fell by 1.4 per cent as stock markets around the world slumped in response to a 10.6 per cent drop in Japan's Nikkei index.
Warnings about the safety of nuclear power plants in Japan, one of the most seismologically active countries in the world, were raised during a meeting of the G8's Nuclear Safety and Security Group in Tokyo in 2008.

A US embassy cable obtained by the WikiLeaks website and seen by The Daily Telegraph quoted an unnamed expert who expressed concern that guidance on how to protect nuclear power stations from earthquakes had only been updated three times in the past 35 years.

The document states: "He [the IAEA official] explained that safety guides for seismic safety have only been revised three times in the last 35 years and that the IAEA is now re-examining them.
"Also, the presenter noted recent earthquakes in some cases have exceeded the design basis for some nuclear plants, and that this is a serious problem that is now driving seismic safety work."

The cables also disclose how the Japanese government opposed a court order to shut down another nuclear power plant in western Japan because of concerns it could not withstand powerful earthquakes.

The court ruled that there was a possibility local people might be exposed to radiation if there was an accident at the plant, which was built to out of date specifications and only to withstand a "6.5 magnitude" earthquake. Last Friday's earthquake, 81 miles off the shore of Japan, was a magnitude 9.0 tremor.

However, a cable from March 2006 reported that the court's concerns were not shared by the country's nuclear safety agency.

It says: "Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency believes the reactor is safe and that all safety analyses were appropriately conducted."
The Government successfully overturned the ruling in 2009.

Another cable reported to Washington local concerns that a new generation of Japanese power stations that recycle nuclear fuel were jeopardising safety.
The cable, quoting a local newspaper, reports: "There is something precarious about the way all electric power companies are falling in step with each other under the banner of the national policy. We have seen too many cases of cost reduction competition through heightened efficiency jeopardizing safety."

The cables also disclose how Taro Kono, a high-profile member of Japan's lower house, told US diplomats in October 2008 that the government was "covering up" nuclear accidents.

He alleged that the government was ignoring alternative forms of energy, such as wind power.

The cable states: "He also accused METI [the Ministry of Economy, Trade, and Industry] of covering up nuclear accidents, and obscuring the true costs and problems associated with the nuclear industry." He added that the Japan's "extensive seismic" activity raised safety concerns about storing nuclear material.

Mr Kan was not in office at the time the nuclear warnings were made. He became science and technology minister in 2009 and prime minister in June 2010.

Tokyo Electric Power Company's (Tepco's) Fukushima I unit 3 is set to become the third Japanese nuclear reactor to load mixed oxide (MOX) fuel after receiving approval from the governor of Fukushima Prefecture, Yukei Sato. The unit follows Kyushu Electric's Genkai 3, which started using MOX fuel in November 2009, and Shikoku's Ikata 3, which was loaded with some MOX fuel in March 2010. According to the Denki Shimbun, the 760 MWe boiling water reactor will be loaded with MOX fuel by 21 August and the unit will restart in late September.

Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency has so far approved the use of MOX fuel in ten reactors, but utilities must also secure approval from prefectural governments before they can go ahead and use the fuel, which contains plutonium recovered from spent nuclear fuel.

6.2.4 Accidents at MOX fabrication plants
Accidents at MOX fuel fabrication plants have occurred. In June 1991, the storage bunker of the MOX fuel fabrication plant in Hanau, Germany, was contaminated with MOX. It occurred after the rupture of a foil for container packaging in the course of an in-plant transportation process. Four workers were exposed to plutonium.29 This accident was the main reason the fabrication plant at Hanau was shut down.

In November 1992, a fuel rod was broken through a handling error, and MOX dust was released during the mounting of MOX fuel rods to fuel assemblies in the fuel fabrication facility adjoining the MOX facility in Dessel, Belgium. In the event of such accidents, if the ICRP recommendations for general public exposure were adhered to, only about one mg of plutonium may be released from a MOX facility to the environment. As a comparison, in uranium fabrication facility, 2kg (2,000,000mg) of uranium could be released in the same radiation exposure. A one mg release of plutonium can easily happen during various smaller incidents.30

Chicken Little or not... MOX could be a big problem and it's certainly worth discussion.

Here is where it states that 1mg of MOX is equivalent to 2,000,000 mg of uranium.

teedubya

03-16-2011, 10:12 AM

Do you have any idea what the means? Or a source for that? Not that I or you would know what it means even if it were sourced.

I had already sourced it earlier.

Dartgod

03-16-2011, 10:15 AM

It was my understanding that the reactors withstood the earthquake just fine. The problems all stem from the fact that the tsunami took out the generators and their ability to cool the nuclear fuel. Isn't that correct?
Posted via Mobile Device

KC Dan

03-16-2011, 10:16 AM

It was my understanding that the reactors withstood the earthquake just fine. The problems all stem from the fact that the tsunami took out the generators and their ability to cool the nuclear fuel. Isn't that correct?
Posted via Mobile DeviceYes

loochy

03-16-2011, 10:17 AM

It was my understanding that the reactors withstood the earthquake just fine. The problems all stem from the fact that the tsunami took out the generators and their ability to cool the nuclear fuel. Isn't that correct?
Posted via Mobile Device

THat is correct. More accurately, the batteries (3rd string electricity option) did not work.

Fat Elvis

03-16-2011, 10:20 AM

THat is correct. More accurately, the batteries (3rd string electricity option) did not work.

The batteries worked, they just weren't designed to keep going for days. Usually, if the generators fail, they are back up within a couple/few hours. Since the tsunami took out the generators, all bets were off.

loochy

03-16-2011, 10:21 AM

The batteries worked, they just weren't designed to keep going for days. Usually, if the generators fail, they are back up within a couple/few hours. Since the tsunami took out the generators, all bets were off.

Yeah, they worked for what, 4 hours? I think they were supposed to last a little bit longer than that though.

teedubya

03-16-2011, 10:24 AM

http://www.businessinsider.com/fukushima-nuclear-plant-2011-3

Fuel Rods Exposed In Reactors 4, 5 And 6; Four Reactor Units Now Have Core Damage

orange

03-16-2011, 10:25 AM

It was my understanding that the reactors withstood the earthquake just fine. The problems all stem from the fact that the tsunami took out the generators and their ability to cool the nuclear fuel. Isn't that correct?
Posted via Mobile Device

Er, no. Here's a nice summary from yesterday.

I know this has probably been said before, but this helped me have a better understanding about why and how the nuclear reactors failed to cool down:

After the earthquake hit, the first safety system to prevent a melt-down was activated. Control rods rose into the nuclear reactor to stop the nuclear fission— but the fuel rods were still hot. Because of the power outage that occurred after the earthquake, water was not circulated to cool down the rods.

The second safety system turned on, and the generator began spraying the rods with coolant. An hour later, that emergency generator stopped— possibly because the tsunami hit the country at that time.

The third safety system then turned on. This system converts steam traveling through the pipes into water. But the water level dropped, and temperatures continued to rise.

All thee safety measures failed.

A professor from Japan's Atomic Energy Commission, whom was involved in the construction of the Fukushima plants, said he thinks the cooling water somehow leaked from the reactor.

“The reactor's coolants must have leaked somewhere in the building,” he said Tuesday. “We thought we had taken adequate precautions for a tsunami, but what happened was beyond our expectations.”

The Japanese government warned 140,000 people to stay within their homes on Tuesday, and an estimated 70,000 people have been evacuated from a 12-mile area around the nuclear plant.

Now, what's more likely - that the earthquake we know happened somehow broke something causing that leak, or that something completely unrelated and unrepeatable coincidentally took place at the same time?

'Hamas' Jenkins

03-16-2011, 10:26 AM

prove it

ROFL

Go to Aiken, South Carolina and run some tests on the groundwater supply. That'll be a good start.

Dartgod

03-16-2011, 10:38 AM

Er, no. Here's a nice summary from yesterday.

Now, what's more likely - that the earthquake we know happened somehow broke something causing that leak, or that something completely unrelated and unrepeatable coincidentally took place at the same time?
OK, but this professor was involved in the building of the plant, but has not been involved in any of the activity post-earthquake/tsunami. So it is just speculation, no? Or has there been an official report from the site that this is what happened and I missed it?

orange

03-16-2011, 10:49 AM

OK, but this professor was involved in the building of the plant, but has not been involved in any of the activity post-earthquake/tsunami. So it is just speculation, no? Or has there been an official report from the site that this is what happened and I missed it?

No, it's not "just speculation." It's informed analysis. Unless the operators short-circuited the safety measures, the professor knows the safety measures that were there and what they were supposed to do. If the ops DID short-circuit things, then we have a whole new ballgame.

As for official report - no one's actually inside these buildings. It will be months or years before they can get any kind of direct information to work with.

Dartgod

03-16-2011, 11:00 AM

No, it's not "just speculation." It's informed analysis. Unless the operators short-circuited the safety measures, the professor knows the safety measures that were there and what they were supposed to do. If the ops DID short-circuit things, then we have a whole new ballgame.

As for official report - no one's actually inside these buildings. It will be months or years before they can get any kind of direct information to work with.
Call it what you want, but unless he is actually on site, it's speculation. It may be that he's right since he has inside knowledge of the plant, but he can't say that with certainty.

A professor from Japan's Atomic Energy Commission, whom was involved in the construction of the Fukushima plants, said he thinks the cooling water somehow leaked from the reactor.

There it is.

orange

03-16-2011, 11:03 AM

Call it what you want, but unless he is actually on site, it's speculation. It may be that he's right since he has inside knowledge of the plant, but he can't say that with certainty.

There it is.

The alternative is that everything is working exactly as designed - and it's still not enough.

Amnorix

03-16-2011, 11:31 AM

The alternative is that everything is working exactly as designed - and it's still not enough.

I think the altnerative is what Dartgod said, and what I said earlier -- that it may be that the only reason the plant is having all these troubles is because the cooling systems were knocked offline by (1) main reactor power -- due to SCRAM, (2) disel generators -- by tsunami, (3) batteries -- unknown, but either tsunami or running out of power.

Dylan

03-16-2011, 11:33 AM

On the plus side, this could really help alleviate California's overwrought public pension burden.

If we could just send 50,000 California government retirees on a beach vacation on March 18, we might be onto something...

LMAO

Just Passin' By

03-16-2011, 12:18 PM

More comments from the NRC chair, says spent fuel pool at Reactor 4 has no water, radiation levels are "extremely high"

http://live.reuters.com/Event/Japan_earthquake2

WoodDraw

03-16-2011, 12:24 PM

http://live.reuters.com/Event/Japan_earthquake2

Also says radiation is extremely high (on site, of course) and may impact ability to do anything about it. Recommends US citizens within 80km leave.

No water is, well, not good...

DaFace

03-16-2011, 12:37 PM

Also says radiation is extremely high (on site, of course) and may impact ability to do anything about it. Recommends US citizens within 80km leave.

No water is, well, not good...

Maybe someone should go pee on it.

googlegoogle

03-16-2011, 12:37 PM

Who was right about how bad this was going to get?

I said so and got banned and punished for it by idiot mods.

Just Passin' By

03-16-2011, 12:38 PM

Who was right about how bad this was going to get?

I said so and got banned and punished for it by idiot mods.

I see you're already on your way to another banning. Way to come out of the penalty box swinging! :thumb:

ChiTown

03-16-2011, 12:39 PM

Who was right about how bad this was going to get?

I said so and got banned and punished for it by idiot mods.

:harumph:

Nightfyre

03-16-2011, 12:43 PM

Who was right about how bad this was going to get?

I said so and got banned and punished for it by idiot mods.

ROFL you said it had already happened, which wasn't true. Further, I believe you were banned by infractions from users, not moderators.

googlegoogle

03-16-2011, 12:44 PM

I see you're already on your way to another banning. Way to come out of the penalty box swinging! :thumb:
:spock:
So we no recourse or defense allowed here?

loochy

03-16-2011, 12:44 PM

Who was right about how bad this was going to get?

I said so and got banned and punished for it by idiot mods.

Preteens FTW!

loochy

03-16-2011, 12:45 PM

Sigh. This thread was actually interesting for the last day and a half. I guess it's time for it to degenerate back into name calling and stupidity.

Woodrow Call

03-16-2011, 12:48 PM

LMAO

I've been waiting patiently for this

googlegoogle

03-16-2011, 12:49 PM

Sigh. This thread was actually interesting for the last day and a half. I guess it's time for it to degenerate back into name calling and stupidity.

You should look up your own past posts. You were one of those calling me stupid and saying nothing would happen. You were proven wrong.

Just Passin' By

03-16-2011, 12:49 PM

:spock:
So we no recourse or defense allowed here?

You were being a dick to the mods. What defense do you think will cover that? There's no PMS clause in the FAQ regarding bannable offenses. There is this, though:

the moderator's do have freedom to chose how to deal with a given situation.

Fuck with the bull, get the horns.

googlegoogle

03-16-2011, 12:54 PM

You were being a dick to the mods.

BECAUSE THEY'RE UNFAIR DICKS

I said before that they've messed with my account before and also one mod revoked posting rights because he said i was calling people communist/socialist. (sofaking) That's ****.

Mr. Plow

03-16-2011, 12:56 PM

http://negativegamer.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/whambulance.png

FAX

03-16-2011, 12:57 PM

And, like the mythical phoenix, Mr. googlegoogle rises from the ashes.

FAX

Just Passin' By

03-16-2011, 12:58 PM

BECAUSE THEY'RE UNFAIR DICKS

I said before that they've messed with my account before and also one mod revoked posting rights because he said i was calling people communist/socialist. (sofaking) That's ****.

Yeah, this is going to end well.

Dartgod

03-16-2011, 12:59 PM

ROFL you said it had already happened, which wasn't true. Further, I believe you were banned by infractions from users, not moderators.
Sofa King is the mod who banned him.
Posted via Mobile Device

SPchief

03-16-2011, 01:00 PM

Sweet, this thread got interesting again. I may ban him

Just Passin' By

03-16-2011, 01:01 PM

The UK is telling its people to consider leaving Tokyo.

Nightfyre

03-16-2011, 01:07 PM

Sofa King is the mod who banned him.
Posted via Mobile Device

He gave him the two day timeout? I coulda swore it came from infractions. If not, I stand corrected on that point.

Donger

03-16-2011, 01:10 PM

Who was right about how bad this was going to get?

I said so and got banned and punished for it by idiot mods.

Certainly not you or the article you cited.

SPchief

03-16-2011, 01:10 PM

LMAO

Ebolapox

03-16-2011, 01:11 PM

Sweet, this thread got interesting again. I may ban him

HAY, ME FIRST!

all we gotta do is get him four infractions and wait patiently for him to hang himself with the last.

WoodDraw

03-16-2011, 01:12 PM

For some good news, TEPCO has said they're close to finishing a new power line that would return power to the pumps. If successful, it would bring a steady flow of water and end the crisis.

Ebolapox

03-16-2011, 01:13 PM

"googlegoogle has not made any friends yet"

very apropos.

googlegoogle

03-16-2011, 01:15 PM

HAY, ME FIRST!

all we gotta do is get him four infractions and wait patiently for him to hang himself with the last.

I'm sure you'll think of something jackass.

Mr. Plow

03-16-2011, 01:17 PM

You might wanna make sure you click the "I disapprove" button next time.

he did the same thing to me--dumbass can't even give neg rep correctly.

Ebolapox

03-16-2011, 01:20 PM

I'm sure you'll think of something jackass.

hey, you fucking watch it... I'll get Sofa King to ban you dammit!

kcfanXIII

03-16-2011, 01:21 PM

For some good news, TEPCO has said they're close to finishing a new power line that would return power to the pumps. If successful, it would bring a steady flow of water and end the crisis.

This would be great news for everyone except g2. His credibility hinges on a massive plume of radioactive fall out to make it to the atmosphere and spread deadly radiation all the way to the United States.

googlegoogle

03-16-2011, 01:29 PM

This would be great news for everyone except g2. His credibility hinges on a massive plume of radioactive fall out to make it to the atmosphere and spread deadly radiation all the way to the United States.

:spock:

Saying i want people dead is just asinine. This has surpassed 3 mile island.

seclark

03-16-2011, 01:30 PM

:spock:

Saying i want people dead is just asinine. This has surpassed 3 mile island.

:hmmm:

Sofa King

03-16-2011, 01:30 PM

ROFL

he did the same thing to me--dumbass can't even give neg rep correctly.

when you have red bars (such a me and my best pal google) you can only give out neutral rep. no neg or pos.

For instance, when he repped me and called me a communist, it was neutral rep i recieved. That, and a good chuckle.

Amnorix

03-16-2011, 01:30 PM

For some good news, TEPCO has said they're close to finishing a new power line that would return power to the pumps. If successful, it would bring a steady flow of water and end the crisis.

This would seemingly solve the entire problem PROVIDED that the pumps and piping is all operational in the wake of all these problems, explosions, fires, etc.

I would've thought if it was just an issue of stringing power lines, that they would've done it by now. I mean, I assume this is one of the more resource-capable power companies in the world, backed by the entire might of Japan in a situation like this.

Even if you string lines blow past miles of darkened neighborhoods to light up the Daiichi plant, you do it as fast as possible...

(Reuters) - Conditions at a stricken nuclear power plant in Japan (http://www.reuters.com/places/japan) have deteriorated so much that there is a growing consensus the crisis is greater than the Three Mile Island accident in 1979, and there are fears that it could get significantly worse.

Amnorix

03-16-2011, 01:42 PM

Weird fallout (no pun intended) from teh quake -- the Yen is trading at 16 year high. Current speculators have weighed in, experts think, in anticipation that Japanese businesses/individuals will cash in on foreign assets and bring the money home to rebuild, etc.

In other news, the US has broken with the Japanese government's recommendation and is telling its citizens to try to remain 50 miles away from the plant site.

Amnorix

03-16-2011, 01:43 PM

This is definitely worse than Three Mile Island. The core never even breached the reactor vessel in that incident.

thecoffeeguy

03-16-2011, 01:44 PM

If one hits in the Cascadia Subduction Zone, it's not going to be good.

(Reuters) - Conditions at a stricken nuclear power plant in Japan (http://www.reuters.com/places/japan) have deteriorated so much that there is a growing consensus the crisis is greater than the Three Mile Island accident in 1979, and there are fears that it could get significantly worse.

I know what happened at TMI. I was asking if you did. Your history indicates that you might make stuff up haphazardly.

googlegoogle

03-16-2011, 01:59 PM

I know what happened at TMI. I was asking if you did. Your history indicates that you might make stuff up haphazardly.

Though I honestly thought it was much more interesting when the real topic was being discussed.

Donger

03-16-2011, 02:18 PM

You're kidding.

No, I'm not kidding. In what way is it far worse than Three Mile Island? Surely you know why, right?

Dave Lane

03-16-2011, 02:18 PM

Again we are in total agreement. Fuck the drill here, drill now crowd. Nuclear here Nuclear now and say goodbye to Opec.

Yeah, I'd say that just about covers it. While this may not be the absolute most accurate post currently residing on the internet (afterall, surely I lay claim to that one somewhere), it's pretty damn close.

Rep, and what not.

It saddens me to no end that we're currently hearing the death rattle for nuclear power in this country. A clean, virtually limitless energy resource based on technology that is light years beyond the gloom and doom scenarios preached by its detractors...and we're going to throw it away.

Environmentalists will continue to ignore things like the 50 year old underground coal vein fire in Centralia, PA that has been spewing toxins into the air for the last 5 decades and is expected to continue to do so for centuries. Afterall, it's those damn tsunamis that you really have to watch out for...

googlegoogle

03-16-2011, 02:20 PM

Ah, good. Thread burst regained.

Though I honestly thought it was much more interesting when the real topic was being discussed.

You're still a p***y.

Donger

03-16-2011, 02:21 PM

Again we are in total agreement. **** the drill here, drill now crowd. Nuclear here Nuclear now and say goodbye to Opec.

Building 100s of more nuclear plants wouldn't completely remove our need for oil. Not even close.

Dave Lane

03-16-2011, 02:21 PM

You should look up your own past posts. You were one of those calling me stupid and saying nothing would happen. You were proven wrong.

So the Nuclear reactors have gone Chernobyl then

googlegoogle

03-16-2011, 02:23 PM

So the Nuclear reactors have gone Chernobyl then

I think most understood the gist of what i was saying in the topic headline.

Building 100s of more nuclear plants wouldn't completely remove our need for oil. Not even close.

What, we can run cars, planes and trains on nuclear power?!?

About a year ago I listened to a program where one expert said that to meet just our electrical power needs, we'd need to complete one nuclear power plant every two weeks for the next 28 years. Something absurd like that.

the bitch in the background? That's the one with the vagina anyways...

haha you beat me to it

Amnorix

03-16-2011, 02:31 PM

I don't see the problem with drilling for oil on our on soil.

I don't want to DC this thread, of course, but I continue to maintain that one good way to think of our undrilled oil is as a backup strategic oil reserve.

The drill more now and always crowd just wants to make a buck now, as far as I can tell. Or cut the price of oil by 25 cents per gallon or whatever.

I care about neither. Neither is of material, strategic importance to the country or our economy. What is important is being in position to exploit our own oil as rapidly and efficinetly as possible if/when necessary.

Donger

03-16-2011, 02:32 PM

What, we can run cars, planes and trains on nuclear power?!?

About a year ago I listened to a program where one expert said that to meet just our electrical power needs, we'd need to complete one nuclear power plant every two weeks for the next 28 years. Something absurd like that.

And on top of that is locomotive (of all types) needs.

So....yeah. Oil is here to stay.

Well, we could completely switch over to full electric vehicles, as mentioned. That would take a big chunk out. We consume 400 million gallons of gas every day.

Airplanes might be a bit problematic.

DaFace

03-16-2011, 02:35 PM

You're still a p***y.

Seriously? Dude, you have the intellect of a 3rd grader. Congrats.

googlegoogle

03-16-2011, 02:35 PM

hahaha.

what a dumbass.

Worst mod ever.

:hmmm:

loochy

03-16-2011, 02:35 PM

Seriously? Dude, you have the intellect of a 3rd grader. Congrats.

ROFLLMAO

googlegoogle

03-16-2011, 02:35 PM

Seriously? Dude, you have the intellect of a 3rd grader. Congrats.

Bwhahaaha.

That was weak.

DaFace

03-16-2011, 02:36 PM

Bwhahaaha.

That was weak.

It wasn't really intended to be an insult - merely an observation.

googlegoogle

03-16-2011, 02:36 PM

ROFLLMAO

Shutup KOOCHY.

Donger

03-16-2011, 02:36 PM

Our NRC reporting that there is NO water left in the spent fuel pool for reactor 4.

loochy

03-16-2011, 02:39 PM

Our NRC reporting that there is NO water left in the spent fuel pool for reactor 4.

well damn get some water in there then

DaFace

03-16-2011, 02:41 PM

Our NRC reporting that there is NO water left in the spent fuel pool for reactor 4.

...

Maybe someone should go pee on it.

Sofa King

03-16-2011, 02:42 PM

rain main should make a poll on the which is the biggest meltdown.

I'm guessing 3-2 odds on googlegoogle.

loochy

03-16-2011, 02:43 PM

googoogle we have an important quest for you. Run the garden hose into the waste pool at reactor number 4 and turn on the water. This quest will earn you 10,000 XP upon completion.

DaFace

03-16-2011, 02:43 PM

For the record, googlegoogle, you can't change thread titles after 15 minutes of starting a thread. Also, the title you keep trying to use is STILL not accurate. I know that you have difficulty understanding that, but no amount of whining and saying "I was right" is going to change the facts.

Sofa King

03-16-2011, 02:45 PM

googoogle we have an important quest for you. Run the garden hose into the waste pool at reactor number 4 and turn on the water. This quest will earn you 10,000 XP upon completion.

LMAO

Dave Lane

03-16-2011, 02:47 PM

I don't see the problem with drilling for oil on our on soil.

Fine drill, but to expect any longer term solution to come from it is wishful thinking.

MOhillbilly

03-16-2011, 02:48 PM

think we outta let the cat outta the bag?

orange

03-16-2011, 02:53 PM

Our NRC reporting that there is NO water left in the spent fuel pool for reactor 4.

well damn get some water in there then

Assuming that's right and not an overstatement, there's another huge problem. The water was going to take weeks to boil off. So there must be a serious leak. So they're going to have to keep putting water in?

For the record, googlegoogle, you can't change thread titles after 15 minutes of starting a thread. Also, the title you keep trying to use is STILL not accurate. I know that you have difficulty understanding that, but no amount of whining and saying "I was right" is going to change the facts.

I would say the same thing.

You've just painted yourself into a corner.

Ebolapox

03-16-2011, 02:56 PM

I would say the same thing.

You've just painted yourself into a corner.

says the guy who gets ANOTHER banhammer with his next infraction (or pissing off Sofa King).

MOhillbilly

03-16-2011, 02:57 PM

these arent the droids youre looking for ,it is.

Sofa King

03-16-2011, 02:57 PM

slap it around a couple more times.
sec

you're already on a short lease for helping googlegoogle in the first place.

see what happens when you join the dark side? you get threads like this.

Ebolapox

03-16-2011, 02:58 PM

you know what's MOST amusing about this thread? you KNOW google squared is PRAYING for a reactor meltdown so he can really SHOW US WHO'S THE FUCKING BOSS. yeah, dipshit. REALLY something to wish for. bitch, please.

Assuming that's right and not an overstatement, there's another huge problem. The water was going to take weeks to boil off. So there must be a serious leak. So they're going to have to keep putting water in?

Why weeks to boil off? Assuming that it's boiling very steadily at a pretty high temp, I'd assume it would boil off pretty fast.

Why in the hell can't they get a hose in there? If they can get a hose to put out the fires they've had, why can't they put some water into what is nothing more than an oversized swimming pool?

googlegoogle

03-16-2011, 02:59 PM

you're already on a short lease for helping googlegoogle in the first place.

see what happens when you join the dark side? you get threads like this.

SofaKing = worst person ever.

Cancer would be good for him.

loochy

03-16-2011, 03:00 PM

Why weeks to boil off? Assuming that it's boiling very steadily at a pretty high temp, I'd assume it would boil off pretty fast.

Why in the hell can't they get a hose in there? If they can get a hose to put out the fires they've had, why can't they put some water into what is nothing more than an oversized swimming pool?

You'd THINK so. I would love to know why they can't.

Amnorix

03-16-2011, 03:00 PM

This thread is a combination of all that is great and all that sucks about ChiefsPlanet...

seclark

03-16-2011, 03:00 PM

you're already on a short lease for helping googlegoogle in the first place.

see what happens when you join the dark side? you get threads like this.

just trying to do my joy the best i can. between this and delivering pizzas, i'm trying to raise my f@cking family.
sec

Ebolapox

03-16-2011, 03:00 PM

SofaKing = worst person ever.

Cancer would be good for him.

OOOOOH, that may be number five if you pissed off SK. hell, maybe another mod will give you infraction number five. hell, just say the word and I'll do it for you. o:-):thumb:

Amnorix

03-16-2011, 03:01 PM

You'd THINK so. I would love to know why they can't.

Right. I would think that compared to dealing with the reactor cores, this would be a piece of cake.

Maybe power is the limiting factor in all respects, and they're more worried about the top blowing off of a reactor containment structure than they are the spent fuel rods.

googlegoogle

03-16-2011, 03:01 PM

you know what's MOST amusing about this thread? you KNOW google squared is PRAYING for a reactor meltdown so he can really SHOW US WHO'S THE ****ING BOSS. yeah, dipshit. REALLY something to wish for. bitch, please.
:spock:

Worst post ever!

I got a laugh out of it bro.

Ebolapox

03-16-2011, 03:02 PM

the thing is, TECHNICALLY viruses can give a person cancer. I doubt that GG has the know-how to use a virus as a biological weapon, but it COULD be construed as a threat.

Amnorix

03-16-2011, 03:02 PM

SofaKing = worst person ever.

Cancer would be good for him.

Seriously, you're just despicable. Why don't you fuck off already? We were doing fine without you. More than fine. Take a hint -- you're not wanted.

would you like a ban, seriously? we have the ammo for it at his very moment. I'm not planning on doing it, but all we have to do is wait for SK to step up or another mod.

googlegoogle

03-16-2011, 03:03 PM

just trying to do my joy the best i can. between this and delivering pizzas, i'm trying to raise my f@cking family.
sec

Don't suck up to that loser. No one respects him.

SofaKing = Worst person ever. Even worse mod.

Ebolapox

03-16-2011, 03:04 PM

Don't suck up to that loser. No one respects him.

SofaKing = Worst person ever. Even worse mod.

you have fucking GOT to be the most CLUELESS FUCKING IDIOT in the history of the internet.

orange

03-16-2011, 03:04 PM

Why weeks to boil off? Assuming that it's boiling very steadily at a pretty high temp, I'd assume it would boil off pretty fast.

Why in the hell can't they get a hose in there? If they can get a hose to put out the fires they've had, why can't they put some water into what is nothing more than an oversized swimming pool?

Mr. Lochbaum, who formerly taught reactor operation for the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, said the pools measured about 40 feet long, 40 feet wide and 45 feet deep. The spent fuel, he added, rested at the pool’s bottom and rose no higher than 15 feet from the bottom.

That means that in normal operations, the spent fuel is covered by about 30 feet of cooling water.

Depending on the freshness of the spent fuel, Mr. Lochbaum said, the water in an uncooled pool would start to boil in anywhere from days to a week. The water would boil off to a dangerous level in another week or two.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/world/asia/16fuel.html

seclark

03-16-2011, 03:05 PM

Don't suck up to that loser. No one respects him.

SofaKing = Worst person ever. Even worse mod.

well, tomorrow's his turn to buy the donuts.
sec

Sofa King

03-16-2011, 03:06 PM

Don't suck up to that loser. No one respects him.

SofaKing = Worst person ever. Even worse mod.

Are you sure? I mean, i thought i was doing good.

loochy

03-16-2011, 03:06 PM

Don't suck up to that loser. No one respects him.

SofaKing = Worst person ever. Even worse mod.

Why are you so mean?

Sofa King

03-16-2011, 03:07 PM

well, tomorrow's his turn to buy the donuts.
sec

I don't buy donuts. I snap my fingers and lesser people bring them to me.

It's good to be the King.

MOhillbilly

03-16-2011, 03:09 PM

:spock:

Worst post ever!

I got a laugh out of it bro.
http://www.mileanhour.com/files/2010/2/Full-Retard.jpg

Amnorix

03-16-2011, 03:11 PM

Mr. Lochbaum, who formerly taught reactor operation for the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, said the pools measured about 40 feet long, 40 feet wide and 45 feet deep. The spent fuel, he added, rested at the pool’s bottom and rose no higher than 15 feet from the bottom.

That means that in normal operations, the spent fuel is covered by about 30 feet of cooling water.

Depending on the freshness of the spent fuel, Mr. Lochbaum said, the water in an uncooled pool would start to boil in anywhere from days to a week. The water would boil off to a dangerous level in another week or two.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/world/asia/16fuel.html

Good find. Yeah, presumably there is a crack or something and its draining water as a result.

Christ, Murphy's Law is in full force here.

orange

03-16-2011, 03:14 PM

Christ, Murphy's Law is in full force here.

p.s. You Was Robbed! I can't even recall ever reading anything from Overhead. ;)

- (file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/User.COM2008/My%20Documents/privatemessages-MOhillbilly-03-11-2011.xml#) <message>
- (file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/User.COM2008/My%20Documents/privatemessages-MOhillbilly-03-11-2011.xml#) <![CDATA[
**** ya i think he just took the bait!sec-got it:"Can you tell me the mod that banned me from starting threads. How long will this last and why was it done? thanks." what you want me to tell him? ive got sofa king in on it, maybe. asked if he was in to play the evil mod. lets run him in circles and see what happens. :LOL:</PRE> ]]><SCRIPT>f(clean);</SCRIPT>

Ebolapox

03-16-2011, 03:21 PM

...

loochy

03-16-2011, 03:21 PM

what the hell is going on?

EDIT: OMG THE THREAD IS HAVING TEH MELTDOWN!

Sofa King

03-16-2011, 03:22 PM

What the hell is going on here!

WoodDraw

03-16-2011, 03:23 PM

Why weeks to boil off? Assuming that it's boiling very steadily at a pretty high temp, I'd assume it would boil off pretty fast.

Why in the hell can't they get a hose in there? If they can get a hose to put out the fires they've had, why can't they put some water into what is nothing more than an oversized swimming pool?

The area is probably too radioactive to approach. They were talking about using helicopters and water cannons, so that tells me they've passed the "lug a hose in" point.

MOhillbilly

03-16-2011, 03:23 PM

googlegoogle is such a dumb motherfucker he broke the intrawebs.

loochy

03-16-2011, 03:24 PM

googlegoogle is such a dumb motherfucker he broke the intrawebs.

this

loochy

03-16-2011, 03:25 PM

The area is probably too radioactive to approach. They were talking about using helicopters and water cannons, so that tells me they've passed the "lug a hose in" point.

Aren't the Japanese supposed to be good at making robots or something?

- (file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/User.COM2008/My%20Documents/privatemessages-MOhillbilly-03-11-2011.xml#) <message>
- (file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/User.COM2008/My%20Documents/privatemessages-MOhillbilly-03-11-2011.xml#) <![CDATA[
ive got sofa king in on it, maybe. asked if he was in to play the evil mod. lets run him in circles and see what happens. :LOL:</PRE> ]]><SCRIPT>f(clean);</SCRIPT>

Over the last few days there have been reports suggesting water levels were low and the water "boiling"; and now the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC), which has a team of 11 experts advising in Japan, says the pool is completely dry.

This means the fuel rods are exposed to the air. Without water, they will get much hotter, allowing radioactive material to escape.

More remarkably, the Tokyo Electric Power Company (Tepco), which owns the power station, has warned: "The possibility of re-criticality is not zero".

If you are in any doubt as to what this means, it is that in the company's view, it is possible that enough fissile uranium is present in the cooling pond in enough density to form a critical mass - meaning that a nuclear fission chain reaction could start.

The pool lies outside the containment chamber.

So if it happened, it would lead to the enhanced and sustained release of radioactive materials - though not to a nuclear explosion - with nothing to stop the radioactive particles escaping.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12762608

...

On the power plant's grounds, radiation readings spiked to levels that hampered the recovery efforts. Tepco said Wednesday that a small amount of neutron radiation was confirmed at the gate of the plant on Tuesday, suggesting some kind of nuclear fission had taken place nearby.

The area is probably too radioactive to approach. They were talking about using helicopters and water cannons, so that tells me they've passed the "lug a hose in" point.

Assuming they have the water/pump/hose/power worked out, I think at some point it's like the military. "Soldier, you're it. Sorry you drew the short straw. We'll take care of your family. Good luck."

And I mean that in all seriousness.

28 first responders/nuclear plant workers died within 3 months of Chernobyl because they did what had to be done. I have absolutely no doubt that the Japanese have plenty of volunteers given their society (kamikazes etc.)

Sofa King

03-16-2011, 03:39 PM

Can't back it up can you. Just same old attacks. I don't post new threads often at all.

Just some vindictive mods like Sofa King who banned me for calling people Socialist or Communists.

Except Sofa King isn't a mod....

hey tard, sofa king isn't a mod.

Are you so sure? Thats not what he says tard.

The mods are:
Austin Chief
Bob Dole
DaFace
Morphius

CrazyPhuD is a supporter and I believe Sofa King isn't.

Sofa King is not a mod.

As usual you have no idea what you are talking about.

LMAO

Amnorix

03-16-2011, 03:40 PM

Over the last few days there have been reports suggesting water levels were low and the water "boiling"; and now the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC), which has a team of 11 experts advising in Japan, says the pool is completely dry.

This means the fuel rods are exposed to the air. Without water, they will get much hotter, allowing radioactive material to escape.

More remarkably, the Tokyo Electric Power Company (Tepco), which owns the power station, has warned: "The possibility of re-criticality is not zero".

If you are in any doubt as to what this means, it is that in the company's view, it is possible that enough fissile uranium is present in the cooling pond in enough density to form a critical mass - meaning that a nuclear fission chain reaction could start.

The pool lies outside the containment chamber.

So if it happened, it would lead to the enhanced and sustained release of radioactive materials - though not to a nuclear explosion - with nothing to stop the radioactive particles escaping.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12762608

...

On the power plant's grounds, radiation readings spiked to levels that hampered the recovery efforts. Tepco said Wednesday that a small amount of neutron radiation was confirmed at the gate of the plant on Tuesday, suggesting some kind of nuclear fission had taken place nearby.

I asked this a day or two ago. Maybe I want to stop learning about this stuff now....

MOhillbilly

03-16-2011, 03:40 PM

MOhillbilly] bigtime whiner, asked me like a year ago who the mods were.ROFL.... funny as hell he wouldn't rat you out. Dude ive been waiting for this. :evil

Ebolapox

03-16-2011, 03:41 PM

LMAO

AND THEN THERE'S MAUDE!

MOhillbilly

03-16-2011, 03:41 PM

where the fuck you go googlegoogle? you fuckin pussy halfwit.

Ebolapox

03-16-2011, 03:43 PM

where the fuck you go googlegoogle? you fuckin pussy halfwit.

now THAT is how you cuss on this website. none of this bullshit filter bypassing, FUCKING POST LIKE A GODDAMNED MAN, GOOGLEGOOGLE.

loochy

03-16-2011, 03:44 PM

where the fuck you go googlegoogle? you fuckin pussy halfwit.

He probably went on this quest I suggested. He really really needs the XP.

googoogle we have an important quest for you. Run the garden hose into the waste pool at reactor number 4 and turn on the water. This quest will earn you 10,000 XP upon completion.

Sofa King

03-16-2011, 03:47 PM

That quest line was hilarious.

MOhillbilly

03-16-2011, 03:47 PM

MOhillbilly]

YES SIR! AWAITING ORDERS!

Sofa tell him it was you because GGs threads are ****in useless and hes a tard. Just run with it dude.
and i'll be the little bastards friend:thumb:

in. full tilt

MOhillbilly

03-16-2011, 03:49 PM

come on cock smoker tell me what a redneck pig****er i am now. you ****in momo.

Donger

03-16-2011, 03:54 PM

More remarkably, the Tokyo Electric Power Company (Tepco), which owns the power station, has warned: "The possibility of re-criticality is not zero".

No, not zero, but extremely unlikely.

MOhillbilly

03-16-2011, 03:54 PM

im out bitch! you boys can have your thread back.

orange

03-16-2011, 04:06 PM

No, not zero, but extremely unlikely.

"On the power plant's grounds, radiation readings spiked to levels that hampered the recovery efforts. Tepco said Wednesday that a small amount of neutron radiation was confirmed at the gate of the plant on Tuesday, suggesting some kind of nuclear fission had taken place nearby."

If not the spent fuel, what? A core leaking? Is that supposed to be reassuring?

Any positive news at this point is like oiling up Mr. billay's biceps.

Where are the Japanese going to live? I suggest a new country in the Middle East somewhere.

FAX

Donger

03-16-2011, 04:09 PM

"On the power plant's grounds, radiation readings spiked to levels that hampered the recovery efforts. Tepco said Wednesday that a small amount of neutron radiation was confirmed at the gate of the plant on Tuesday, suggesting some kind of nuclear fission had taken place nearby."

If not the spent fuel, what? A core leaking? Is that supposed to be reassuring?

You don't have to have fission in order to generate neutron radiation. Normal decay produces it, too.

Rams Fan

03-16-2011, 04:59 PM

You're still a p***y.

Worst mod ever.

That's enough. I was trying to help you understand who is and who isn't a mod, but apparently you can't even understand that.

Spent fuel rods in Unit 4 of Japan's stricken Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant have been exposed, resulting in the emission of "extremely high" levels of radiation, the head of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission said Wednesday.

"What we believe at this time is that there has been a hydrogen explosion in this unit due to an uncovering of the fuel in the fuel pool," Gregory Jaczko told a House energy and commerce subcommittee hearing. "We believe that secondary containment has been destroyed and there is no water in the spent fuel pool, and we believe that radiation levels are extremely high, which could possibly impact the ability to take corrective measures."

The water served to both cool the uranium fuel and shield it. But once the uranium fuel was no longer covered by water, the zirconium cladding that encases the fuel rods heated, generating hydrogen, said Robert Alvarez, senior scholar at the Institute for Policy Studies and a former official with the Department of Energy.

That caught fire, resulting in a situation that is "very, very serious," he told CNN. He said the next step may involve nuclear plant workers taking heroic acts. Asked to be more specific, he said, "This is a situation where people may be called in to sacrifice their lives. ... It's very difficult for me to contemplate that but it's, it may have reached that point."

orange

03-16-2011, 07:20 PM

Aerial operations have been suspended and helicopters removed from the site.

Now it's time for the riot squads and water cannons.

Ebolapox

03-16-2011, 07:22 PM

weird question: does radiation have any effect on superman? if not, isn't it about time we called him in?

Phobia

03-16-2011, 07:26 PM

Why don't we just send people in who are already suffering from terminal cancer. Hello. Might even cure them. Who knows?

DaFace

03-16-2011, 07:37 PM

I found this "snapshot" from Reuters to be informative in summarizing everything:

- Yen surges to a record high against the dollar, Japanese shares and stocks elsewhere slide on growing nuclear worries.

- Mizhuo Bank says all its automated teller machines have stopped working across Japan

- Tokyo is safe for international travellers, the Japanese Red Cross says.

* Britain advises its citizens in Japan to consider leaving Tokyo and the area north of the capital

- There is no evidence of a significant spread of radiation from Japan's crippled nuclear plants, the World Health Organisation says.

- No plan yet to extend evacuation zone near the facility, 240 km (150 miles) north of Tokyo.

- Australia urges its citizens with non-essential roles to consider leaving Tokyo and the most damaged prefectures, and Turkey warns citizens against travelling to Japan. France urges nationals living in Tokyo to leave country or move south.

- Tens of thousands of people are still missing since Friday's quake and tsunami. About 850,000 households in the north without electricity in near-freezing weather. Death toll is expected to exceed 10,000.

with the strong caveat that the media seems to be currently blanketed with ill-sourced implausible stories that are debunked hours later, so this story could be complete and utter bullcrap, one thing that was very interesting to me is reading how the US is upset about how Japan is handling it. In what way? Some of the stories suggested that the powers that be in the US think that Japan is being too careful with shielding their first responders from danger.

Where basically we're taking the position of "yes, we know this is dangerous, yes we know a lot of people could get cancer and die early, but screw it, there's got to be some people willing to die for your country, right? They might not be soldiers, but this sh*t has to be done no matter what, screw being careful, ask for volunteers, make sure they understand that they might die, and send their ass in there. Fix your sh*t, and talk about how they were brave and wonderful and how they either died for their country or might get cancer for their country after this is done!"

I'm not sure how accurate this is since you'd think that the Japanese culture would be more willing to sacrifice, but there you are. I also have to agree with that sentiment. If some crazy-ass one in several hundred year disaster strikes Boston or wherever and you think a few hundred people volunteering to shorten their lifespan could help hundreds of thousands or millions of people, then you should at least poll the workers to see if any older men want to do it.

Dylan

03-16-2011, 07:59 PM

It is telling that Al Jazeera staff in Asia is more up to date on the crisis in Japan than the U.S. media.

Aljazeera was the first to break this story (highlighted) live over seven hours ago:

3:14am (GMT)

The US military has delivered high-pressure water pumps to Japan to help cool Fukushima's crisis-hit nuclear power plant.

The pumps were ferried to Yokota Air Force Base for use at the crippled Fukushima plant, with four additional pumps delivered from Sasebo, in Japan's southwest, the US Pacific Fleet said in a statement.

Rising temperatures caused by damage to the cooling system pumps during Friday's earthquake are cauding the water in the reactor cores to turn to steam, increasing pressure, and exposing the fuel rods.

When the fuel rods become even partly exposed, the temperature increases rapidly, turning more of the water to steam, and increasing pressure even more quickly. When the rods come into contact with steam, rather than water, hydrogen is produced.

With large amounts of hydrogen held in a container whose heat and pressure is increasing rapidly, there is a risk of an explosion, which may damage the containment vessel and allow nuclear fuel to leak out, spreading large amounts of radiation.

The high-pressure pumps are used to re-fill the reactor cores as the water level begins to drop, replacing the water at a speed which cools both the rods and the chamber, reducing pressure and averting the potential for a meltdown.

They can't hover because of the radiation, so they're dropping the water on the move, and it's spraying all over.

They're screwed. :doh!:

If true, this is completely rediculous, and an indictment of how Japan is handling this. I really doubt the dose is that horrible for a quick 5 minute exposure. Get the helicopter steady and do it right. If the pilot doesn't want to go, find someone (maybe an older guy) who will.

L.A. Chieffan

03-16-2011, 08:12 PM

Just nuke it. They'll cancel each other out

Dylan

03-16-2011, 08:20 PM

I watching Anderson Cooper on CNN:

Kind of funny that the U.S. calling Japan liars about their flawed results showed radiation levels 10-100 (?) times higher than expected; especially in light of underestimating the magnitude of the Gulf spill by our own government.

I swear, this administration have absolutely no shame.

'Hamas' Jenkins

03-16-2011, 08:21 PM

If true, this is completely rediculous, and an indictment of how Japan is handling this. I really doubt the dose is that horrible for a quick 5 minute exposure. Get the helicopter steady and do it right. If the pilot doesn't want to go, find someone (maybe an older guy) who will.

FWIW, they still pay various cleanup crews around the Chernobyl site a full day's pay for 20 minute exposures in various areas.

They used to have workers at the SRP walk down areas near the reactor and give a bolt that needed maintenance a single turn, because one individual tightening it would expose that person to too much radiation.

The fact is that the situation is completely untenable. They are hovering in a radioactive plume, and the ingestion of that material is a death sentence.

'Hamas' Jenkins

03-16-2011, 08:25 PM

I watching Anderson Cooper on CNN:

Kind of funny that the U.S. calling Japan liars about their flawed results showed radiation levels 10-100 (?) times higher than expected; especially in light of underestimating the magnitude of the Gulf spill by our own government.

I swear, this administration have absolutely no shame.

The NRC is not filled with sycophants from the current administration in office.

alnorth

03-16-2011, 08:30 PM

FWIW, they still pay various cleanup crews around the Chernobyl site a full day's pay for 20 minute exposures in various areas.

They used to have workers at the SRP walk down areas near the reactor and give a bolt that needed maintenance a single turn, because one individual tightening it would expose that person to too much radiation.

The fact is that the situation is completely untenable. They are hovering in a radioactive plume, and the ingestion of that material is a death sentence.

hogwash. They sell day passes to tourists to visit chernobyl, because that site really isn't as dangerous as people make it out to be.

A fatal dose is about 6 Sv. You aren't going to get even a tiny fraction of that by hovering for a few minutes. Even in its heyday when the damned reactor completely blew up and radioactive material was laying on the ground a few feet from you, it still usually took a few hours of exposure for you to die. This is obviously not the risk these pilots are facing, and a few minutes is, though not irrelevant, also not horrifying. If there is not a single pilot willing to do it correctly, then that is just sad

Dylan

03-16-2011, 08:33 PM

France says Japan lost control, French should leave

Le Monde.FR

http://www.racinground.com/forums/images/smilies/candle.gif

Billay

03-16-2011, 08:37 PM

hogwash. They sell day passes to tourists to visit chernobyl, because that site really isn't as dangerous as people make it out to be.

A fatal dose is about 6 Sv. You aren't going to get even a tiny fraction of that by hovering for a few minutes. Even in its heyday when the damned reactor completely blew up and radioactive material was laying on the ground a few feet from you, it still usually took a few hours of exposure for you to die. This is obviously not the risk these pilots are facing, and a few minutes is, though not irrelevant, also not horrifying. If there is not a single pilot willing to do it correctly, then that is just sad

Judging by your responses here and the thread about the military won't be exposed to radiation I have no choice but to call you a flat earther.

'Hamas' Jenkins

03-16-2011, 08:38 PM

hogwash. They sell day passes to tourists to visit chernobyl, because that site really isn't as dangerous as people make it out to be.

A fatal dose is about 6 Sv. You aren't going to get even a tiny fraction of that by hovering for a few minutes. Even in its heyday when the damned reactor completely blew up and radioactive material was laying on the ground a few feet from you, it still usually took a few hours of exposure for you to die. This is obviously not the risk these pilots are facing, and a few minutes is, though not irrelevant, also not horrifying. If there is not a single pilot willing to do it correctly, then that is just sad

This is also why the rate of thyroid cancer went up 30 fold in Belarus in four years among children, three times the rate of birth defects in children in the Ukraine, and heart disease so common that the quadrupling of cases led to the term "Chernobyl" heart.

I'm not going to turn this into an anti-nuclear power rant, because I don't see the competent use of it as a problem, but the way you have attempted to minimalize the risk of radioactive exposure throughout this entire thread is making you look like Baghdad Bob.

You have no credibility on this issue, none. Studies funded by our own government showed demonstrable negative health effects from even brief exposures, and the amount of radiation being released there is currently 10,000 times normal background levels.

You seem to be completely unable to understand the dichotomy between an LD50 dose that will cause instant death and a dose that will cause death down the line as a result of cellular and genetic damage incurred by the exposure.

'Hamas' Jenkins

03-16-2011, 08:39 PM

Judging by your responses here and the thread about the military won't be exposed to radiation I have no choice but to call you a flat earther.

Al North: Cherenkov Radiation, it's just a light show!!

teedubya

03-16-2011, 08:39 PM

I say we send alnorth. He seems to have a handle on all of this.

Brock

03-16-2011, 08:41 PM

hogwash. They sell day passes to tourists to visit chernobyl, because that site really isn't as dangerous as people make it out to be.

A fatal dose is about 6 Sv. You aren't going to get even a tiny fraction of that by hovering for a few minutes. Even in its heyday when the damned reactor completely blew up and radioactive material was laying on the ground a few feet from you, it still usually took a few hours of exposure for you to die. This is obviously not the risk these pilots are facing, and a few minutes is, though not irrelevant, also not horrifying. If there is not a single pilot willing to do it correctly, then that is just sad

How much exposure to end up with a brain tumor in a couple of years? You're pretty cavalier with other people's lives.

Just Passin' By

03-16-2011, 08:42 PM

How much exposure to end up with a brain tumor in a couple of years? You're pretty cavalier with other people's lives.