You kind of thought they were going to lose after that terrible first quarter, but they really turned it around. Granted, they played a .500 team at best in the Pacers, but the heart was there all night. Well-deserved win.

granger33

12-21-2007, 10:45 PM

Great game by Minesota.

we played pretty good offense. Lack of Defense though.

Dunleavy looking to be no.1 scorer these days.

Well get a W against Wizards tomorrow :)

kester99

12-21-2007, 10:49 PM

I think this is probably going to be one of the shortest threads ever...lots of disappointment to go around, as they say.

Good things: Ike is back and looked strong. Shawne showed well and probably earned a few more minutes in J'OB's mind.

It's a long season, and the Pacers will continue to improve, but this game really shows a bad habit we have...putting up big leads and relaxing against hungry teams. Not the first time this has bitten us.

McKeyFan

12-21-2007, 10:49 PM

Here are some great posts early on in the game thread:

"Minnesota has a lot injuries, this should be easy pickings tonight."

"Our JV team is even abusing them. How the hell they held Phoenix to under 100pts is beyond me."

"This is the best offensive quarter I've ever seen from the Ps." (Mine, btw :)

"I thought Denver was the worst defensive team in the league but Minnesota definitely grabs the title now that I've watched them."

"Jefferson's winded already"

"Looking good... Minnesota going DOWN."

"Announcers already planning the next three drafts; what a sad team."

"Well, at least we know who will win this game.."

And then the best post from LoneGranger after reality set in:

"And that's why you never trash-talk another team in the first quarter."

McKeyFan

12-21-2007, 10:51 PM

Was Foster injured? We needed him to stop Jefferson, who was making a joke of JO, just abusing him silly. Made him look like a jv player.

kester99

12-21-2007, 10:53 PM

Was Foster injured? We needed him to stop Jefferson, who was making a joke of JO, just abusing him silly. Made him look like a jv player.

No injury I saw...don't know why he only pulled 14:26 on floor. We definitely got outrebounded, and the D wasn't up to the job. Seems like a time to keep Foster in the game. Maybe we'll hear more on that later.

LG33

12-21-2007, 10:56 PM

No injury I saw...don't know why he only pulled 14:26 on floor. We definitely got outrebounded, and the D wasn't up to the job. Seems like a time to keep Foster in the game. Maybe we'll hear more on that later.

O'Brien can't manage a game - how many big leads are we going to lose this year?

kester99

12-21-2007, 10:57 PM

O'Brien can't manage a game.

I don't feel qualified to make that judgement.

McKeyFan

12-21-2007, 10:58 PM

O'Brien can't manage a game.

I don't buy that.

I think JOB will give us a good reason. He has stated very clearly, several times, that Foster is one of our best five players. He got 14 minutes for a good reason.

kester99

12-21-2007, 11:01 PM

On that subject of blown big leads...I think we saw just how slim a margin we have to work with....if we don't stay hungry, if we try to cruise, we're hosed.

And that's another one of those lessons the Pacers may have to learn repeatedly, until it finally sinks in.

LG33

12-21-2007, 11:06 PM

Here are some great posts early on in the game thread:

"I thought Denver was the worst defensive team in the league but Minnesota definitely grabs the title now that I've watched them."

At least Minny didn't wait until the fourth to make their run.

I don't feel qualified to make that judgement.

Me neither, but I can't explain this **** any other way.

NuffSaid

12-21-2007, 11:10 PM

Bad things....too many (and too depressing) to go into, mostly on the defensive side.
I'll step to this challenge...

Perimeter defense was aweful against a proven 3pt threat in Antonio Walker. I don't care how many off games this guy might have, you DON'T disrespect him by leaving him wide open so often on the wings.

Tinsley got burned by Telfair too often especially on nearly every high screen. JT just didn't try to break through them. Maybe his thigh is still bothering him, but if that's the case JOB should have played Owens again tonight at least at B/U-PG.

Too many missed layups...again. We've had 2 or 3 games like that this young season. Layup drills anyone? You gotta finish underneath the basket. PERIOD!

Pacers didn't match the T-Wolves energy. Okay, so nobody read the Pioneer Press or Minnesota Daily News, but you had to know this team was desperate for a win, and coming against the Pacers - a team known to let so-called loser teams in the door ...(shaking head on this one). Poor outting by my boyz tonight.

Pacers got out-rebounded (50-39) and I'm sure they were killed in the "points in the paint" department. Telfair and Jefferson got any position they wanted and had more than their share of the ball bouncing their way tonight.

I only hope my boyz can shake this lose off and come back with a big win against the Wizards who are just about as beat up as the T-Wolves.

LG33

12-21-2007, 11:13 PM

"This game is very important - we can either establish ourselves as an Over .500 squad that beats the bad teams and occasionally beats the good ones, or we can succumb to a season of inconsistency, hovering around .500 all year. This is a game we SHOULD win, even without Jamaal. After all, we beat a solid team in Philadelphia - a team that had won 5 of its last 6, albeit against less-than-stellar competition - on Wednesday without our floor general. No team in the NBA is an easy win, because we all know how apt our Pacers are at giving up career nights, but this is the closest there is right now. People are just going to have to step up again.

It's just a shame that Harrison can't play - we could sure use another big guy on AJ."

Pre-game thoughts have turned into post-game nightmares.

LG33

12-21-2007, 11:15 PM

I only hope my boyz can shake this loss off and come back with a big win against the Wizards who are just about as beat up as the T-Wolves.

Too bad the Wizards have heart...and Caron Butler.

Lord Helmet

12-21-2007, 11:16 PM

Great game by Minesota.

we played pretty good offense. Lack of Defense though.

Dunleavy looking to be no.1 scorer these days.

Well get a W against Wizards tomorrow :)
The offense was good at times. But as poorly as they played in the 2nd half, I can't praise it too much.

andreialta

12-21-2007, 11:26 PM

Dunleavy really looked like the only one who wanted to win. there were so many times you see him diving for the ball down by 15.. taking that charge from big RHINO craig smith and just never stopped moving. considering he played lots of minutes.

we neeed to bring our A game tomorrow !

kester99

12-21-2007, 11:38 PM

Dunleavy really looked like the only one who wanted to win.

Yup.

Lord Helmet

12-21-2007, 11:44 PM

The Wizards are no joke and have been playing great lately even without Gilbert. We play like we did in the 2nd half tonight and we're losing by 30.

Shack80

12-21-2007, 11:49 PM

This is the kind of thing I expect from this team now. Up and down, all over the place. It is still better than I had hoped for over the summer.

kester99

12-22-2007, 12:04 AM

After the bad showing tonight, if you were embarrassed watching them, think how embarrassed the Pacers are. That, combined with the Wizards further injuries (Antonio Daniels), makes me think we could just blow the Wizards away tomorrow.

If we react in any other way...getting down as a team...it'll be a really bad sign.

LG33

12-22-2007, 12:32 AM

The good news is, barring a Pacers-like collapse, the Sonics will beat Toronto tonight, preventing our own embarassing defeat from taking us too far down in the East.

CableKC

12-22-2007, 12:35 AM

When a bottom-feeding team needs a win.....look to the Pacers to give it to them.

Let's see...we have lost to Seattle and the TWolves. First...we give the Sonics their first home win....and second....we lose to the worst team in the league.

:banghead:

Will Galen

12-22-2007, 01:22 AM

The highlight of this game occurred for me at the 2:14 mark of the first quarter. That's when they showed a beautiful blonde talking to a beautiful brunette. It's not often you see two ladies that lovely together.

Yes, it also means I'm not interested in talking about this debacle.

Trader Joe

12-22-2007, 01:57 AM

So I left and went out when we were up 27-10. I come home and see this. Needless to say I thought this Pacer team had gotten over losing to AWFUL teams. I guess I was wrong.

We can say that the T-Wolves played well, and I didn't see the game, but this team is the worst team in the NBA for a reason...they suck. Its a horrible loss. PERIOD.

andreialta

12-22-2007, 02:20 AM

yes it is infact a horrible loss.. but in reality, the T-wolves just outplayed us.. Toine made shots and they just were lucky!

Arcadian

12-22-2007, 02:24 AM

One thing I took away from the loss it that Lone Granger has no sense of humor when it comes to the Pacers unless this is all an elaborate parody of Shade. Not one Stanko Smash post.

CableKC

12-22-2007, 02:26 AM

yes it is infact a horrible loss.. but in reality, the T-wolves just outplayed us.. Toine made shots and they just were lucky!
You didn't get the memo? Whenever over the hill 3pt shooters play the Pacers....they get to score their season-high points on us.

CableKC

12-22-2007, 02:37 AM

I had to go eat dinner before half-time and wasn't able to catch the box-score or check the FG%....but I thought I heard that the Pacers and TWolves were shooting above 50%. It looks like we just hit a huge patch of poor shooting in the 2nd half. By the end of the game...we were shot 45%...while they continued to shoot 53.8%.

The only bright spot in the whole lineup on the offensive end was Dunleavy and Rush......with some glimmers of light from Shawne and Ike.....everyone just couldn't buy a bucket.

I guess we could also blame overall team defenes on this loss.....when players like Telfair and Antoine Walker have huge shooting/scoring nights.....whatever defense that we had just plain sucked.

dal9

12-22-2007, 02:39 AM

Dunleavy really looked like the only one who wanted to win. there were so many times you see him diving for the ball down by 15.. taking that charge from big RHINO craig smith and just never stopped moving. considering he played lots of minutes.

-21

Hoop

12-22-2007, 02:43 AM

The highlight of this game occurred for me at the 2:14 mark of the first quarter. That's when they showed a beautiful blonde talking to a beautiful brunette. It's not often you see two ladies that lovely together.

Yes, it also means I'm not interested in talking about this debacle.
I know exactly the ones you are talking about. They were incredibly attractive.

CableKC

12-22-2007, 02:48 AM

-21
Does that mean that Shawne ( +7 ), Murphy ( +4 ) Deiner ( +3 ), Owens ( +3 ), Diogu ( +1 ) were the only ones that decided to show up after the half?

Dunleavy may have had the worst +/- out there with ( -21 ), but I don't get the sense that he ever gave up. Not only did he lead the team in scoring...he got to the Foul Line 10 times. IMHO....he did what every player should do when their shots did not drop...he got to the FT line.

dohman

12-22-2007, 03:19 AM

-21

I got a place you can shove that -21

He was the only player out there tonight showing some heart. Everyone else should of just stayed in indiana.

kester99

12-22-2007, 03:39 AM

-21

Which shows the basic weakness of the pure plus/minus stat...it depends on who you were on the floor with, and what they were doing.

Bball

12-22-2007, 03:54 AM

So, what is the biggest turnaround in an NBA game as far as scoring goes? From a X point lead to a Y point deficit?

When I think of teams erasing a large deficit, I think of buzzer beaters or relatively tight 4th qtr games to the wire where the rallying team finally pulls it out.

-Bball

Naptown_Seth

12-22-2007, 03:59 AM

Well I have the +/- thread going, but I figured at least the some of the numbers from the game could go in here too.

Ignoring Diener and Owens who only had garbage time...

7 Williams
1 Daniels
(both went +5 in the final 7 minutes themselves with the game out of reach)

1 Diogu (also +3 in late garbage time, and only 9 minutes)

4 Troy
-8 Tins
-10 Danny
-12 Rush
-15 Foster
-18 JO
-21 Dunleavy

The starters opened with a +17, but also came back in the 2nd with a -14.

TheDon

12-22-2007, 04:24 AM

13-35 from 3 point land. I don't know if that's on par with what we normally take but it seems like that's all we were shooting for 3 quarters.

OnlyPacersLeft

12-22-2007, 06:01 AM

WTF? I MISSED THE GAME...IS TINSLEY STILL HURTING? 27 PTS FOR TELFAIR~!? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? SEEMS LIKE JEFFERSON TORE US A NEW ONE...UHG...Just when you think you are about to go over 500. and make a serious run stuff like this happens. Oh well...

D-BONE

12-22-2007, 07:07 AM

Here we go again. One step forward two embarrasing leaps backs.

Looks like the Ps must have given the Wolves the same mental preparation and respect we did in the post-game thread following the Philly win. Extrapollating ourselves to 4 games over .500 heading into Xmas. Once we get the worst team in the league down 20, we'll just coast on in to the W.

Mabye we'll learn this lesson by season's end. MAYBE? Meanwhile we shall remain mired in mediocrity, which isn't that horrible given some preseason prognostications. And yet we seem so tantalizingly close to being able to distinguish ourselves, at least by EC standards.

Back to the drawing board.

NuffSaid

12-22-2007, 07:44 AM

When a bottom-feeding team needs a win.....look to the Pacers to give it to them.

Let's see...we have lost to Seattle and the TWolves. First...we give the Sonics their first home win....and second....we lose to the worst team in the league.

:banghead:

yes it is infact a horrible loss.. but in reality, the T-wolves just outplayed us.. Toine made shots and they just were lucky!
Part of it was luck - the T-Wolves were the beneficiaries of quite a few luckly bounces that happened to land right in their hands for the put-back - but truth is this is just as CableKC stated: the Pacers seem to loss against teams they really should beat easily based strictly on their opponent's record. Not only that, but last night the Pacers failed to capitalized on their biggest advantage: DEPTH!

Even w/o Harrison, this team should have shown a lot stronger inside presence. Moreover, they should have drove the ball inside and put the T-Wolves back on their heals; they only had 9 men suite up for goodness sakes! The Pacers had at least 12!! Instead, the Pacers took over 30 3pters the majority of which missed and became long rebounds for the T-Wolves that led to transition baskets. This game was NOT their best. Even the lose to the Sonics was a better played game than this one.

I've seen all but 2 Pacers games thus far (NBA-LP has proven to be one smart investment this year! :D ) and this is absolutely the worst I've seen this team play all of this young season. I really hope they can shake off this embarrasing loss and win big against the Wizards.

Rajah Brown

12-22-2007, 08:19 AM

Hey, this is what .500 teams do. They're up and down, winning some
they shouldn't and losing some they shouldn't. When all is said and
done, the tally reads 41-41. The Pacers are a bit better than that,
but still, the clunkers shouldn't be a shocker.

We've got alot of guys with holes in their games and the
inconsistency that results leads to up and down play and
if opponents take advantage of them, ugly losses like last
night's.

OnlyPacersLeft

12-22-2007, 08:43 AM

I still think we end up above 500.

Unclebuck

12-22-2007, 08:51 AM

I didn't see any of the game, so I really don't know what happened. But I do know that in almost all the losses this season a similar thing happens, the Pacers go into a bad stretch of play and they cannot get themselves out of it. I don't know why it is

Hicks

12-22-2007, 09:59 AM

I think a lot of people have a misconception when it comes to losing. All teams lose to all teams. The 2000-02 Lakers used to lose to Chicago and Vancouver/Memphis. The Phoenix Suns THIS YEAR lost to this Timberwolves team. My mind's drying up, but I know there are other examples and I'm sure there are plenty along the line. Bad teams beat good teams. It happens. Now, that doesn't mean I'm happy about it, far from it. In fact I was ticked off the whole second half of the game. But unless we start losing more than we win I'm not going to chalk this up as this team having serious issues.

LG33

12-22-2007, 10:27 AM

One thing I took away from the loss it that Lone Granger has no sense of humor when it comes to the Pacers unless this is all an elaborate parody of Shade. Not one Stanko Smash post.

If you are implying that I am StankoLover316, then you are more uninformed than I thought. That is so outrageous that I would even go as far as using the term 'ludicruous' to describe such a suggestion.

StankoLover216

12-22-2007, 10:33 AM

STANKO COME US AMERICA TO DOMINATING ALFRED JEFFERSON! NO WANT WASTE TALENTED IN EUROPE! US AMERICANS WILL TREMBLING IN FEAR OF THE STANKO!

LG33

12-22-2007, 10:37 AM

Ok, that is just a coincidence.

PBB

12-22-2007, 10:45 AM

I thought the shot chart at the end of the third showed almost no shots inside the arc.

If so, looks like teams will try to make us beat them by our three point shooting.

Oneal07

12-22-2007, 10:53 AM

On that subject of blown big leads...I think we saw just how slim a margin we have to work with....if we don't stay hungry, if we try to cruise, we're hosed.

And that's another one of those lessons the Pacers may have to learn repeatedly, until it finally sinks in.

Yeah. We started to play WAY TOO CASUAL. And taking stupid jumpshots. Especially in the 3rd quarter

ABADays

12-22-2007, 11:09 AM

Just one of those games guys. It happens. Move on.

Oneal07

12-22-2007, 11:17 AM

True. . .Seattle Beat the Raps last night. Durant was on FIRE. You gotta some what respect their win, cause they play hard!!

McKeyFan

12-22-2007, 11:18 AM

STANKO COME US AMERICA TO DOMINATING ALFRED JEFFERSON! NO WANT WASTE TALENTED IN EUROPE! US AMERICANS WILL TREMBLING IN FEAR OF THE STANKO!

That was funny.

Arcadian

12-22-2007, 11:56 AM

If you are implying that I am StankoLover316, then you are more uninformed than I thought. That is so outrageous that I would even go as far as using the term 'ludicruous' to describe such a suggestion.

I would never suggest that you are StankoLover316: FOR STANKO LOVE WORLD...

That would be blasphemous and as well as ludicruous.

I'm not sure that Stanko would have helped here though. Dun-Dun wanted to win and we still lost.

Bball

12-22-2007, 12:12 PM

I didn't see any of the game, so I really don't know what happened. But I do know that in almost all the losses this season a similar thing happens, the Pacers go into a bad stretch of play and they cannot get themselves out of it. I don't know why it is

I'm not sure I've caught any of the games on TV that the Pacers were plastered by the opposition but I'm wondering if maybe O Brien is letting the team sink or swim on its own in order to build some consistency for down the road? Maybe he's decided throwing the kitchen sink at any one game in order to eek out a win is counter-productive in the long term? ...So if the team starts to lose focus and get away from what it needs to be doing he's not one to try and reel them in and put a bandaid on it, instead he lets the bleeding continue and uses it as coaching fodder and a learning experience for the next game.

-Bball

Trader Joe

12-22-2007, 01:51 PM

The point of good teams losing to bad teams is a valid one, but what kills me is we have now lost to Seattle AND Minny. Two games we should win. You move those two games from the loss column to the win column and we are 16-11. This loss sucks.

McKeyFan

12-22-2007, 03:08 PM

I'm not sure I've caught any of the games on TV that the Pacers were plastered by the opposition but I'm wondering if maybe O Brien is letting the team sink or swim on its own in order to build some consistency for down the road? Maybe he's decided throwing the kitchen sink at any one game in order to eek out a win is counter-productive in the long term? ...So if the team starts to lose focus and get away from what it needs to be doing he's not one to try and reel them in and put a bandaid on it, instead he lets the bleeding continue and uses it as coaching fodder and a learning experience for the next game.

-Bball

I think this was 100 percent true ten games ago. Now it's about 50 percent true--Obie is really wanting to win more now, IMO.

Last night he did call a timeout when our 20 point lead dwindled to, like, two points.

But, yes, he does have a strategy to see how guys handle adversity. But he probably is thinking he's seen nearly enough now to get the idea.

All just my opinion, of course.

Naptown_Seth

12-22-2007, 04:42 PM

BTW, on the +/- in general. There's heart, drive, will to win, effort.

Then there's results. Let's not confuse the two. Tonight, for whatever reason, the Dun groups weren't having success.

Frankly isn't it just as telling that the team got crushed on a night when Dun had a terrible +/- himself? I mean I love JO, but one knock on him that's hard to dispute is that he's often run as a +0 guy in wins or losses, suggesting he's not the critical guy either way.

I think many of us have agreed that Dun has been the guy the team needed clicking most of all and that so goes Dun, so goes the team. Along with Tins of course. And when you look at Dun's output you have to consider the possibility that he was getting hung out to dry with some 5 man groups that were flopping around him.

That's why people look at both numbers.

Naptown_Seth

12-22-2007, 04:50 PM

STANKO COME US AMERICA TO DOMINATING ALFRED JEFFERSON! NO WANT WASTE TALENTED IN EUROPE! US AMERICANS WILL TREMBLING IN FEAR OF THE STANKO!

If you are implying that I am StankoLover316Okay, now you're just trying too hard. We can see right through tricks like this. ;)

I would like to nominate that for post of the year though. That was premiere caliber Stanko-speak, all sorts of grammar errors mixed in. Or as Graham would say: :arrgh:

Naptown_Seth

12-22-2007, 04:55 PM

I think this was 100 percent true ten games ago. Now it's about 50 percent true--Obie is really wanting to win more now, IMO.

Last night he did call a timeout when our 20 point lead dwindled to, like, two points.

But, yes, he does have a strategy to see how guys handle adversity. But he probably is thinking he's seen nearly enough now to get the idea.

All just my opinion, of course.
Doing the +/- runs by hand makes me notice how long he lets groups play together, and in the last 10-15 he's worked on keeping groups together on the floor for much longer. As things were slipping away he was doing a lot of sub-work, starting right after the starters blew much of the lead. The juggling didn't seem to do much, other than slow the bleed.

For the record, the starters did pull 17+ minutes of work together for a total of +2, again after starting the game +17. But other than letting them have 3 runs of minutes, much of rest of the 2nd/3rd had lots of shuffling.

Forget that this was Minny. WTF with blowing some of these HUGE leads. Think of the Denver games for example. I mean there is streaky and then there is just silly.

LG33

12-22-2007, 06:11 PM

Okay, now you're just trying too hard. We can see right through tricks like this. ;)

I would like to nominate that for post of the year though. That was premiere caliber Stanko-speak, all sorts of grammar errors mixed in. Or as Graham would say: :arrgh:

I'm completely flabbergasted, utterly exasperated, wholly stupefied, fully exacerbated, totally irritated, and thoroughly aggravated by such inane, outrageous, outlandish, quixotic, and altogether preposterous accusations. I am incapable, incompetent and positively inadequate when it comes to forming, fashioning, moulding, or developing such obvious and rather paltry imitations and emulations. I think I've made my point blatantly clear and readily apparent. StankoLover216 and I are not in any way, shape, or form related.

Will Galen

12-22-2007, 06:47 PM

I'm completely flabbergasted, utterly exasperated, wholly stupefied, fully exacerbated, totally irritated, and thoroughly aggravated by such inane, outrageous, outlandish, quixotic, and altogether preposterous accusations. I am incapable, incompetent and positively inadequate when it comes to forming, fashioning, moulding, or developing such obvious and rather paltry imitations and emulations. I think I've made my point blatantly clear and readily apparent. StankoLover216 and I are not in any way, shape, or form related.

Not related in shape huh?

Hmmm . . . Stanko is tall and well built. That has to make you short and fat. :p