Verizon seeks customers to spam with mobile marketing forever

Participants are handsomely rewarded with a coupon. Hey, where are you going?

Verizon is starting to contact customers this week about allowing the telecom to sell their data—including location, browsing information, and mobile app usage—to third-party marketers in exchange for… coupons. The company promises one coupon up front, with the potential for e-mails, texts, snail mail, or mobile ads with more offers based on the data collected.

The program is called Verizon Selects and is Verizon’s attempt to bridge the gap between how marketers reach mobile users and what mobile users (supposedly) want to see from marketers. Verizon says it will analyze the information listed above along with “customer demographic and interest data” to “create specific insights.”

Verizon provides the usual data-sharing reassurance that information that can identify customers personally will not be shared outside of Verizon. Because the program allows marketers to reach customers directly, Verizon Selects is an opt-in program. In the announcement, Verizon does not explicitly state that customers can ever opt out of the program once they’re in; they can only “opt-in or change their choices” on the relevant website.

Basically, if you’re looking to get in, get a free coupon, and get out, be careful. Verizon points out that it runs several other marketing programs “that provide customers with an opt-out choice.”

It amazes me how alluring coupons are to some people. The wife of a friend of mine spends so much time "couponning" (yes, that is a thing) that they treat it as a part time job she can do from home while taking care of their kids.

A coupon for what, exactly? Never mind, doesn't matter. How about an account credit instead?

Agreed, I've gotten a bunch of random texts over the last year that are clearly advertising spam. Doesn't really bug me just like the special offers on my Kindle don't bug me since it made the device less expensive. If the coupon is to knock my bill down some and i'll consider it.

Otherwise... if its a coupon for random shit, then that's (in my view) double ads.

It amazes me how alluring coupons are to some people. The wife of a friend of mine spends so much time "couponning" (yes, that is a thing) that they treat it as a part time job she can do from home while taking care of their kids.

The really good folks that know the in's and out's of couponing can go to stores, get everything they "buy" for free, and mail-in rebates to get refunded extra money on the side. It can actually save a lot of money. The question is, is the cost-benefit the same as actually just having a normal job and paying for the stuff normally. If a person is spending 8 hrs a day couponing (40hrs / wk) just to save $200 on some stuff ... that's a pretty shit deal. But, if someone's doing it while doing something else important, like looking after the kids, taking care of the house, etc ... that's not such a bad deal, b/c it's just icing on the cake of someone covering the expensive expenses of day care / child care, house-keeping, cooking, budget management, etc.

Verizon provides the usual data-sharing reassurance that information that can identify customers personally will not be shared outside of Verizon

i've seen this phrasing before, but i'm not reassured by it at all.

just because the data will stay inside verizon doesn't prevent it from being used to annoy me. verizon is a very, very large company with many internal plans to get to my money. they might offer me a credit card, life insurance, a new phone, landline, television, or internet service, or even send me political messages intent on keeping with their monopoly-rent-seeking status via manipulating my opinion.

great, they don't share the info with *other* companies all set on doing the same thing but if I said yes to every company i deal with that says they won't share, they would all still have info. they would just be gathering it separately.

It amazes me how alluring coupons are to some people. The wife of a friend of mine spends so much time "couponning" (yes, that is a thing) that they treat it as a part time job she can do from home while taking care of their kids.

The really good folks that know the in's and out's of couponing can go to stores, get everything they "buy" for free, and mail-in rebates to get refunded extra money on the side. It can actually save a lot of money. The question is, is the cost-benefit the same as actually just having a normal job and paying for the stuff normally. If a person is spending 8 hrs a day couponing (40hrs / wk) just to save $200 on some stuff ... that's a pretty shit deal. But, if someone's doing it while doing something else important, like looking after the kids, taking care of the house, etc ... that's not such a bad deal, b/c it's just icing on the cake of someone covering the expensive expenses of day care / child care, house-keeping, cooking, budget management, etc.

Verizon provides the usual data-sharing reassurance that information that can identify customers personally will not be shared outside of Verizon

Either the location data is so lax as to mean "city you're in" or that's pretty much blown it...

I can see academic papers in the future investigating noisy, low precision but (very) high volume and annotated information to de-anonymise it.

I give good odds they'll have most people based on determining how long it takes you to get "stable" at home/work and the distances in between that implies. All they need to do is tie up a few points in time with things they know individuals did (cookie for going to a website/ad network they are linked with and hey presto there's a hard time stamp for interaction that will strongly negatively correlate with periods of movement). I suspect they could infer quite a bit from walking speed too.

If they already know postal addresses from previous deliveries I can't imagine they'll have much trouble linking you to your location and activity trace.

It amazes me how alluring coupons are to some people. The wife of a friend of mine spends so much time "couponning" (yes, that is a thing) that they treat it as a part time job she can do from home while taking care of their kids.

The really good folks that know the in's and out's of couponing can go to stores, get everything they "buy" for free, and mail-in rebates to get refunded extra money on the side. It can actually save a lot of money. The question is, is the cost-benefit the same as actually just having a normal job and paying for the stuff normally. If a person is spending 8 hrs a day couponing (40hrs / wk) just to save $200 on some stuff ... that's a pretty shit deal. But, if someone's doing it while doing something else important, like looking after the kids, taking care of the house, etc ... that's not such a bad deal, b/c it's just icing on the cake of someone covering the expensive expenses of day care / child care, house-keeping, cooking, budget management, etc.

Oh I'm not knocking it, I'm just saying it amazes me how much energy people can put into it. My friend's wife certainly saves them a lot of money and she enjoys it to boot...you are a lucky person if your hobby makes you a few hundred $/week. As icing on the cake, they started a subscription service so that fellow couponers nation wide can share their intel to get deals. The combination of that service and his android apps has enabled them to retire early. So, yeah, it has really worked out for them.

As somebody else already said, what exactly is the "coupon" for? This appears to be just out-and-out greed on the part of Verizon. Unless they were offering to subsidize a fairly significant portion of a subscriber's monthly bill for joining this program, all this is is another money grab because I'm sure all it does is make Verizon even more money when they sell your data to the marketers.

So Verizon is attempting to put Google's Android's business plan on steroids in exchange for a coupon?

Google makes money on android through Google Play and through the use of google services. Likewise, Apple makes money on iOS by selling apps through the App Store and iTunes. Amazon does it through their App Market and their store.

In the announcement, Verizon does not explicitly state that customers can ever opt out of the program once they’re in; they can only “opt-in or change their choices” on the relevant website.

I can't imagine them not allowing an opt-out at some point. Sure, requiring that you stay in the program for 1 or 2 years, like you're on a service contract, I could see. Binding you to a perpetual contract that you can't ever get out of? Pretty sure that's unenforceable.

Agreed. My information is my property, my currency, and I refuse to spend it unless there's a value add to my life. Coupons aren't much of an add-on, since everyone offers them. Google gives me a rapidly improving Android software and associated services in exchange for my information currency, PLUS coupons. Verizon? They're not going to use my currency to improve my service (competition creates superior product, superior profits just lead to superior investor dividends), so the only thing I would expect from them is a price break. $40 a month seems equivalent to what I value Android.

seanhsmith wrote:

This appears to be just out-and-out greed on the part of Verizon.

They're a business. It's their job to be greedy. If the managers aren't being greedy, then they should be fired by the owners. If you're not an owner, then why the hell do you care if they're greedy? You're approaching the problem from the wrong direction. You need to think about

1) What does this service do to benefit you? The short answer here is, of course, some coupons)2) What does it cost you? As I said above, some of your information, which is property which can be traded for goods and services.3) Is there a better offer from someone else? The more you spend your currency, the less valuable it becomes. Many companies build profiles on you and sell that info to other companies, so you should give your info to as few companies as possible, and try to choose the most reputable. In other words, save your currency for the best offers and stick with those. Be judicious.

If they are giving you a coupon up front, that means that Verizon needs to have money to get the coupon worth back to them. Else you opt-in, get the coupon, use it, and opt out, and your repeat.So probably once you opt in, it will be added to your contract agreement. You can only opt out if and only if your contract is ended. I doubt renewal will give you the opt out choice either.

If they are giving you a coupon up front, that means that Verizon needs to have money to get the coupon worth back to them. Else you opt-in, get the coupon, use it, and opt out, and your repeat.So probably once you opt in, it will be added to your contract agreement. You can only opt out if and only if your contract is ended. I doubt renewal will give you the opt out choice either.

You don't seem to be familiar with how advertising works. Verizon is actually getting PAID to present you with the coupons. The cost is born entirely by the ones trying to advertise on Verizon.

Given that they are looking to share "location, browsing information, and mobile app usage" with 3rd parties, I would bet that the coupons are going to be coming from those 3rd parties, rather than from Verizon. Reminds me of the decade-old location-based "Killer App" to send you a coupon for 15% off a pair of jeans at the Gap as you stroll by the store. Unless it's something more compelling than that, I don't see this going too far.

For me, it's a straight, Hell No. I'm more than happy to pay extra $ for ad-free apps & devices (Kindle, etc), and that's just for lack of annoyance. For giving away my info... yeah, I'm not even sure free service would do the trick. Maybe a bit of a hyperbole, but seriously, what's it worth to me to maintain (relative) privacy and lack of spam? $10/month? $20? I'm not sure at what point I would allow this for a discount, but it's likely more than $20/mo, and sure as hell not worth some unspecified coupon.

OtoH, if they wanted to copy the "pay for no ads" model for more thrifty consumers, or ppl who aren't as privacy-conscious, it could be a decent option (the coupon thing still seems kinda useless though). More choice is rarely a bad thing, as long as I retain my choice to stay the hell away from it.

You'd be nuts to sign up for this. Maybe the initial offer is very worth it to you, but once you've signed up you've lost all control. From that point on the only form of input or control you can expect to have is the ability to change your name, cancel your phone, ditch that phone number, and move to a new address with no forward.

Maybe I'm exaggerating what you'd have to do to get away from the solicitation, but you're okaying cheap targeted solicitation that rings/buzzes your phone as long as you have that number. That's nuts!

I might be willing to okay that for .. say .. a brand new car of my choice.

We are asking customers to opt-in to Verizon Selects because of the types of information being used and because the capabilities provided to third-party marketers gives them the ability to reach customers directly.

Agreed. My information is my property, my currency, and I refuse to spend it unless there's a value add to my life. Coupons aren't much of an add-on, since everyone offers them. Google gives me a rapidly improving Android software and associated services in exchange for my information currency, PLUS coupons. Verizon? They're not going to use my currency to improve my service (competition creates superior product, superior profits just lead to superior investor dividends), so the only thing I would expect from them is a price break. $40 a month seems equivalent to what I value Android.

seanhsmith wrote:

This appears to be just out-and-out greed on the part of Verizon.

They're a business. It's their job to be greedy. If the managers aren't being greedy, then they should be fired by the owners. If you're not an owner, then why the hell do you care if they're greedy? You're approaching the problem from the wrong direction. You need to think about

1) What does this service do to benefit you? The short answer here is, of course, some coupons)2) What does it cost you? As I said above, some of your information, which is property which can be traded for goods and services.3) Is there a better offer from someone else? The more you spend your currency, the less valuable it becomes. Many companies build profiles on you and sell that info to other companies, so you should give your info to as few companies as possible, and try to choose the most reputable. In other words, save your currency for the best offers and stick with those. Be judicious.

1) What does it do to benefit me? Very little.

2) What does it cost me? It costs me THE MONEY THAT I AM PAYING VERIZON EVERY MONTH TO PROVIDE A SERVICE. You do understand you are paying these people to provide the service, right? The information that you provide them for the contract, for example.... is private. That's honestly between you and them. From my perspective anyway, that information should NOT be shared with ANYONE without your express say-so, on a per-transaction basis. As for all of the other information that they "gather" off of you, that information should be treated the same way.

3) If there a better offer from someone else? Sure. Find a company that will respect you as a person, and not just as a profit source.

At the end of the day, this is just a bad deal. Those of you still with Verizon.... when are you going to draw the line?

Anyone know on Android or iOS if you can select sensor readings to furnish to applications?For instance if google maps wants to know my location, then use the sensor. But if Verizon Select app wants to know my location, then well get it from this text file. Of facebook wants my location get it from this database that only provides day-old GPS coordinates.

For me, it's a straight, Hell No. I'm more than happy to pay extra $ for ad-free apps & devices (Kindle, etc), and that's just for lack of annoyance. For giving away my info... yeah, I'm not even sure free service would do the trick. Maybe a bit of a hyperbole, but seriously, what's it worth to me to maintain (relative) privacy and lack of spam? $10/month? $20? I'm not sure at what point I would allow this for a discount, but it's likely more than $20/mo, and sure as hell not worth some unspecified coupon.

OtoH, if they wanted to copy the "pay for no ads" model for more thrifty consumers, or ppl who aren't as privacy-conscious, it could be a decent option (the coupon thing still seems kinda useless though). More choice is rarely a bad thing, as long as I retain my choice to stay the hell away from it.

My question is, why should I have to "pay for no ads" anyway? Isn't that why I'm paying for phone service as it is? I know.... "it keeps the cost down". Then please..... quantify. Quantify for me how much these ads are saving me. Otherwise, it's a bullsh*t argument without any evidence to support it.

Please remember, these companies are being granted permission, from us (technically, as our government is supposed to represent us..... I know, try not to choke laughing) to do this.