You are welcomed to argue further, but from a theist point of you will end up in 1 of the 2 situations. Islam just does not draw a line in the sand and say believe our way or you WILL go to hell, no if's, and's or but's. You may obtain heaven by living a good life, this is at God's discretion but if you want structure and direction in obtaining Heaven, here follow these steps found in Holy Quran.

Understandably this makes the presumption that God exists, a whole other argument

Karmic Sangoma

You are welcomed to argue further, but from a theist point of you will end up in 1 of the 2 situations. Islam just does not draw a line in the sand and say believe our way or you WILL go to hell, no if's, and's or but's. You may obtain heaven by living a good life, this is at God's discretion but if you want structure and direction in obtaining Heaven, here follow these steps found in Holy Quran.

Understandably this makes the presumption that God exists, a whole other argument

Expert Member

You are welcomed to argue further, but from a theist point of you will end up in 1 of the 2 situations. Islam just does not draw a line in the sand and say believe our way or you WILL go to hell, no if's, and's or but's. You may obtain heaven by living a good life, this is at God's discretion but if you want structure and direction in obtaining Heaven, here follow these steps found in Holy Quran.

Understandably this makes the presumption that God exists, a whole other argument

According to the Qur'an, the basic criteria for salvation in afterlife is the belief in one God (Tawḥīd), Last Judgment, good deeds, and in all the messengers of God, as well as believing that Muhammad is the final prophet of God.

Though one must do good deeds and believe in God, salvation can only be attained through God's judgement.[6]

Conditions of going to Paradise according to the Qur'an:

Those who spend (freely), whether in prosperity, or in adversity; who restrain anger, and pardon (all) men;- for Allah loves those who do good;-
And those who, having done something to be ashamed of, or wronged their own souls, earnestly bring Allah to mind, and ask for forgiveness for their sins,- and who can forgive sins except Allah?- and are never obstinate in persisting knowingly in (the wrong) they have done.
For such the reward is forgiveness from their Lord, and Gardens with rivers flowing underneath,- an eternal dwelling: How excellent a recompense for those who work (and strive)!

—Qur'an, sura 3 (Al-i-Imran), ayat 134 - 136[7]

Allah did aforetime take a covenant from the Children of Israel, and we appointed twelve captains among them. And Allah said: "I am with you: if ye (but) establish regular prayers, practise regular charity, believe in my messengers, honour and assist them, and loan to Allah a beautiful loan, verily I will wipe out from you your evils, and admit you to gardens with rivers flowing beneath; but if any of you, after this, resisteth faith, he hath truly wandered from the path or rectitude."

—Qur'an, sura 5 (al-Māʾidah) ayah 12[8]

As in life there are many trials which one must face. This is also a condition individuals must encounter in order to enter Jannah.

Or do ye think that ye shall enter the Garden (of bliss) without such (trials) as came to those who passed away before you? they encountered suffering and adversity, and were so shaken in spirit that even the Messenger and those of faith who were with him cried: "When (will come) the help of Allah?" Ah! Verily, the help of Allah is (always) near!

—Qur'an, sura 2 (al-Baqarah), ayah 214[9]

Did ye think that ye would enter Heaven without Allah testing those of you who fought hard (In His Cause) and remained steadfast?

—Qur'an, sura 3 (Al-i-Imran), ayah 142[10]

The Qur'an also asserts that those who reject the Prophets of God with their best knowledge are damned in afterlife[6] and if they reject in front of the Messenger of God, then they also face dreadful fate in this world and in afterlife (see Itmam al-hujjah). Conversely, a person who discovers monotheism not having been reached by a messenger is called Hanif.

Islam just does not draw a line in the sand and say believe our way or you WILL go to hell, no if's, and's or but's.

Conditions of going to Paradise

According to the Qur'an, the basic criteria for salvation in afterlife is the belief
• in one God (Tawḥīd),
• Last Judgment,
• good deeds,
• and in all the messengers of God,
• as well as believing that Muhammad is the final prophet of God.

If you dont believe in Muhammed you dont pass go, I think that qualifies as a line in the sand?

Expert Member

Any Muslim who thinks like that is ignorant. Purely because the first entries to heaven will be the poor. Irrespective of race, colour, religion or whatever. Their poverty is a 1 way ticket to eternal paradise. So that theory is "Busted"

Okay, so what you are saying is you dont have to be a muslim to get into heaven. Fantastic. Then no need to be a muslim in the first place. Just be a good person.

If you choose not be a muslim and just be a good person than you a Muslim in the non technical sense. So for everything a muslims would do you have your own version of it... Then your a muslim... Its like going to write you bar exams but not going to university to study law and relying on your own techniques to pass the Bar. Its easier to go to university with a set syllabus and course material. But hey if you feel you can do it better on your own nothing stops you....

Expert Member

Islam just does not draw a line in the sand and say believe our way or you WILL go to hell, no if's, and's or but's.

Conditions of going to Paradise

According to the Qur'an, the basic criteria for salvation in afterlife is the belief
• in one God (Tawḥīd),
• Last Judgment,
• good deeds,
• and in all the messengers of God,
• as well as believing that Muhammad is the final prophet of God.

If you dont believe in Muhammed you dont pass go, I think that qualifies as a line in the sand?

Expert Member

Any Muslim who thinks like that is ignorant. Purely because the first entries to heaven will be the poor. Irrespective of race, colour, religion or whatever. Their poverty is a 1 way ticket to eternal paradise. So that theory is "Busted"

If you choose not be a muslim and just be a good person than you a Muslim in the non technical sense. So for everything a muslims would do you have your own version of it... Then your a muslim... Its like going to write you bar exams but not going to university to study law and relying on your own techniques to pass the Bar. Its easier to go to university with a set syllabus and course material. But hey if you feel you can do it better on your own nothing stops you....

Expert Member

If you choose not be a muslim and just be a good person than you a Muslim in the non technical sense. So for everything a muslims would do you have your own version of it... Then your a muslim... Its like going to write you bar exams but not going to university to study law and relying on your own techniques to pass the Bar. Its easier to go to university with a set syllabus and course material. But hey if you feel you can do it better on your own nothing stops you....