I hate to make the comparison, but I don't remember Buehrle having "great movement" on anything but his curveball really. He was also a soft-tossing control pitcher, that, if he didn't have his cutter on that given day, would get hit hard by righties. Going for him, Quintana throws slightly harder than I remember Buehrle throwing at the same age...and he's also still young for a pitcher. If I remember my baseball knowledge right, pitchers usually don't start to really figure stuff out until they're around 27-28 or so...and Quintana is just 23.

I will say that my dad has said that Buehrle was both the best defensive pitcher and smartest pitcher that he's seen since Greg Maddoux, and the best he's seen on the White Sox since Billy Pierce (who was also a soft-tossing lefty?). So Quintana has a high bill to live up to.

Basically what I'm trying to say is have a little faith. I know you have a bad feeling about the guy, but have a little faith. The guy is still baseball young and will have his challenges. What he has shown me so far I like: he's got a lot of guts for a guy his age, and when he's got his control he's pretty good. If his control is off that day, he's shown the ability to limit the damage and at least save the bullpen from having to cover too many innings. I remember two games specifically where this happened--one of them was against the Yankees I'm pretty sure--where he didn't have his control at all during the first two innings or so and got absolutely hammered, but was able to end up going 6-7 innings and help get the team the win.

It remains to be seen if Quintana can fully grasp the strategy side of pitching, but if he does I think he's got a good chance of becoming at the very least serviceable. And honestly, with what he throws and how he throws it, he's going to have to do it eventually if he wants to last in MLB.

Also for the record, I'm not high on Santiago. Sure, he's got a good changeup and a decent fastball and is left-handed...but if his out pitch--that changeup--isn't working...which seemed to happen quite often last season...then it's a struggle for him to get people out. At least Quintana can do it more reliably when in trouble.

I also want to point out something I think is important about Quintana: last year between the minors and the majors the guy threw 185 IP, the most he's done in his professional career. So yes, I think that he got tired toward the end. If he can even flirt with giving the White Sox 200 IP every year and give a .500 effort or even a bit better? I'll take that out of a 5th starter any day at the very least.

I agree, I think that Quintana's struggles towards the end of 2012 were much more a result of fatigue rather than the league figuring him out. He faced the Royals three times last year and in his first start he went 5 innings giving up 5 runs, his second start was 7IP and 2 ER, his third start 7IP and 2ER. He also faced the Blue Jays twice 6 and 6.2 IP both times giving up 2 ER.

This will be an interesting year for the White Sox because they are going to find out what they have in Viciedo, Quintana, Santiago, and Flowers while finding out what Konerko has left in the tank. If the White Sox can get significant contributions from the young guys with contributions from the veterans they can contend. If the young guys contribute but the veterans go in the tank, well you have something to build for in the future. If the young guys suck, well, then the White Sox have a lot of problems looming for 2014 and beyond.

I hate to make the comparison, but I don't remember Buehrle having "great movement" on anything but his curveball really. He was also a soft-tossing control pitcher, that, if he didn't have his cutter on that given day, would get hit hard by righties. Going for him, Quintana throws slightly harder than I remember Buehrle throwing at the same age...and he's also still young for a pitcher. If I remember my baseball knowledge right, pitchers usually don't start to really figure stuff out until they're around 27-28 or so...and Quintana is just 23.

I will say that my dad has said that Buehrle was both the best defensive pitcher and smartest pitcher that he's seen since Greg Maddoux, and the best he's seen on the White Sox since Billy Pierce (who was also a soft-tossing lefty?). So Quintana has a high bill to live up to.

Basically what I'm trying to say is have a little faith. I know you have a bad feeling about the guy, but have a little faith. The guy is still baseball young and will have his challenges. What he has shown me so far I like: he's got a lot of guts for a guy his age, and when he's got his control he's pretty good. If his control is off that day, he's shown the ability to limit the damage and at least save the bullpen from having to cover too many innings. I remember two games specifically where this happened--one of them was against the Yankees I'm pretty sure--where he didn't have his control at all during the first two innings or so and got absolutely hammered, but was able to end up going 6-7 innings and help get the team the win.

It remains to be seen if Quintana can fully grasp the strategy side of pitching, but if he does I think he's got a good chance of becoming at the very least serviceable. And honestly, with what he throws and how he throws it, he's going to have to do it eventually if he wants to last in MLB.

Also for the record, I'm not high on Santiago. Sure, he's got a good changeup and a decent fastball and is left-handed...but if his out pitch--that changeup--isn't working...which seemed to happen quite often last season...then it's a struggle for him to get people out. At least Quintana can do it more reliably when in trouble.

I also want to point out something I think is important about Quintana: last year between the minors and the majors the guy threw 185 IP, the most he's done in his professional career. So yes, I think that he got tired toward the end. If he can even flirt with giving the White Sox 200 IP every year and give a .500 effort or even a bit better? I'll take that out of a 5th starter any day at the very least.

I hope you are right, but Buehrle did have really good movement, and he also had pinpoint control. He also knew how to pitch out of jams. Buehrle is a special kind of pitcher in that he was always going to give up about the same, if not higher, hits than innings pitched, but still succeed. He was comfortable pitching with men on base. He is a fantastic pitch to contact pitcher. He grasps that if he throws a certain pitch in a certain location, the hitter won't do a ton with it.

Quintana, he relies more on deception a little bit. That said, I agree he is still learning how to pitch. Hopefully I am wrong, I would love to be.

Also, with Santiago, do not discredit his screwball. He is still learning to harness that pitch, but if he does, its going to be an out pitch.

Their Hits/9, K/9, BB/9, WHIP are all about the same career wise. Except that Gavin has pitched his entire career (sans a few outings) in the AL, a hitters league, and in a hitter's park, while Sanchez has pitched in a pitcher's league (sans a few outings) and in pitcher's parks his entire career.

In Interleague games Sanchez has a 5.00 ERA and 1.49 WHIP; Floyd has a 2.79 ERA and a 1.07 WHIP.

Take the AL/NL ERA exchange into account and their ERA is the about the same.

Also, Sanchez has ALWAYS been a starter -- one single relief outing in his fluke 2.83 ERA rookie year. Do your homework for a change before you jump into an argument and so adamantly state your (incorrect) viewpoint Munch.

He's never posted an ERA above 4. Floyd has never posted an ERA below 4. You can't possibly think GM's view them as the pitcher.

He's never posted an ERA above 4. Floyd has never posted an ERA below 4. You can't possibly think GM's view them as the pitcher.

League differential. Their secondary stats are nearly identical.

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoota

I'm not counting this homerun or his 3 RBI from today's game because of the game situation. I'm not counting his pinch hit solo homerun in a blowout win in Colorado. In my book, Crede has 2 less home runs than his statistics show, 4 less RBI, and one less walk (the one where he pinch hit for Uribe after coming in with a 3-0 count and taking one pitch).

Yeah. I get that argument. I just don't buy it. We're talking about almost a full run differential (like .78 career). Not to mention, in his time in Detroit Sanchez still posted an ERA under 4 (once again, something Floyd has NEVER done in any season).

Yeah. I get that argument. I just don't buy it. We're talking about almost a full run differential (like .78 career). Not to mention, in his time in Detroit Sanchez still posted an ERA under 4 (once again, something Floyd has NEVER done in any season).

Adjusting to the league makes their career Era's different by either. 03 or. 28. Yeah, that's substantial.

If Peavy can come back from his injury and surgery the way he did, I'm sure Danks can also.

I'm comfortable counting on a full recovery from Danks, but Danks' and Peavy's injuries, prognoses, and recoveries are completely different.

__________________The universe is the practical joke of the General at the expense of the Particular, quoth Frater Perdurabo, and laughed. The disciples nearest him wept, seeing the Universal Sorrow. Others laughed, seeing the Universal Joke. Others wept. Others laughed. Others wept because they couldn't see the Joke, and others laughed lest they should be thought not to see the Joke. But though FRATER laughed openly, he wept secretly; and really he neither laughed nor wept. Nor did he mean what he said.

The projected 2013 rotation looks strong. With Sale and Peavy atop the rotation, Danks and Floyd may thrive as the #3/#4 starters (as they did in 2008), and I'm comfortable sticking the winner of the Quintana/Santiago competition in the #5 spot (with the loser in Charlotte or the long relief role).

We can create a 25 man roster. No need to make a trade just for the sake of
Making a trade. Being patient might not be the worst thing right now. Floyd might be a good value if Ejax can fetch $13m/year.

added lindstrom to final reliever slot. We don't have to Make any more moves this offseason. A backup catcher addition might be nice but trades can also be made in regular season.

Pitching and defense looks very solid. Hitting should at least be average but if Flowers shows that he can hit than we will be looking real good.

That is, if Rios and De Aza don't regress at all, Konerko doesn't continue to show his age, Dunn still manages to hit 40 HR while staying above the Mendoza line, and Flowers/Keppinger matches the production gotten from Pierzynski/Youk, without a litany of health problems we generally avoided last year from Peavy and much of heavily worked young bullpen.

That said, despite what many here think, I can see Viciedo continuing to develop into a solid middle of the order hitter, and what Keppinger brings to the top of the order may more than make up for the overall reduction in power. Perhaps Gordon will finally get comfortable not being shuttled around the order like the last 3 years, and the offense as constructed meshes much better than Sox teams of the past. Who knows. That's why they play the games!