Isn't that rather similar to the way the open door policy has been foisted on Singaporeans against their wills? At the people who disagreed with said policy. So is it any surprise that similar reactions are seen? Or do you think that Singaporeans should react to abrupt change differently than other people?

Said sentiments aside of course does not mean that offensive online vitriol and abuse is right.

[quote="JR8"]The EU has been foisted on the British people, and other countries, against their will. That was the politicians precise intention from the day the post-war blue-print for rolling it out was first penned.

As the original architect of the EU as we now have it, Jean Monnet, stated:

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[i]“Europe’s nations should be guided towards the superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation.”

Sporkin wrote:Isn't that rather similar to the way the open door policy has been foisted on Singaporeans against their wills? At the people who disagreed with said policy. So is it any surprise that similar reactions are seen? Or do you think that Singaporeans should react to abrupt change differently than other people?

Said sentiments aside of course does not mean that offensive online vitriol and abuse is right.

It wasn't foisted on anybody. The recipients of those foreign workers/talents were mostly Singaporean companies owned wholly by Singaporeans themselves. They clamoured for the government to allow them to hire more expertise and labour. Not the other way around. Surely, you are not that naive? The government never forced anybody to hire foreigners, the businesses asked the government to relax immigration policies to allow them to hire more badly needed educated help. You might want to go back and reread your Singapore History and this time not play-play.

The offensive online tirades are by a very small percentage of the overall population and the 40% who voted against the current government is only a couple percentage points greater than the last 5 elections I've witnessed here. The silent majority knows which side their bread is buttered on. Those other vitriolic ones are the ones who just want their lives handed to them on a silver platter without earning it. They are the pathetic ones who are the laughing stock of Asia.

sundaymorningstaple wrote:The recipients of those foreign workers/talents were mostly Singaporean companies owned wholly by Singaporeans themselves. They clamoured for the government to allow them to hire more expertise and labour.

Therein lies the difference. In Singapore the foreign workers are allowed in where a case is made for how they will significantly add value to the country and economy.

In the EU, people have a right to live where they want, and to claim very generous housing and benefits. And a lot of immigration is financially motivated. For example, every week sees hundreds drowning trying to cross illegally from Africa to Europe. But, if they're going to give you a free S$1mm home and S$2k+ a month - FOR LIFE - 'just for showing up', what do you expect?

So non-business owning citizens do not count as part of the country and therefore does not factor into the policy making decision? In this case it was the pro-business lobby pushing the policy in place, and to a non-business owner would this not seem like a policy enacted against his will?

Do people who disagree with policies not make vocal outcries elsewhere?
That their opinion is 'right' or wrong matters not, to them it is right.

People are stubborn and will cling on to what version of 'truth' is most comfortable to them. You should always expect negativity whichever way policy direction turns.

sundaymorningstaple wrote:

Sporkin wrote:Isn't that rather similar to the way the open door policy has been foisted on Singaporeans against their wills? At the people who disagreed with said policy. So is it any surprise that similar reactions are seen? Or do you think that Singaporeans should react to abrupt change differently than other people?

Said sentiments aside of course does not mean that offensive online vitriol and abuse is right.

It wasn't foisted on anybody. The recipients of those foreign workers/talents were mostly Singaporean companies owned wholly by Singaporeans themselves. They clamoured for the government to allow them to hire more expertise and labour. Not the other way around. Surely, you are not that naive? The government never forced anybody to hire foreigners, the businesses asked the government to relax immigration policies to allow them to hire more badly needed educated help. You might want to go back and reread your Singapore History and this time not play-play.

The offensive online tirades are by a very small percentage of the overall population and the 40% who voted against the current government is only a couple percentage points greater than the last 5 elections I've witnessed here. The silent majority knows which side their bread is buttered on. Those other vitriolic ones are the ones who just want their lives handed to them on a silver platter without earning it. They are the pathetic ones who are the laughing stock of Asia.

Sporkin wrote:So non-business owning citizens do not count as part of the country and therefore does not factor into the policy making decision? In this case it was the pro-business lobby pushing the policy in place, and to a non-business owner would this not seem like a policy enacted against his will?

Do people who disagree with policies not make vocal outcries elsewhere?That their opinion is 'right' or wrong matters not, to them it is right.

People are stubborn and will cling on to what version of 'truth' is most comfortable to them. You should always expect negativity whichever way policy direction turns.

sundaymorningstaple wrote:

Sporkin wrote:Isn't that rather similar to the way the open door policy has been foisted on Singaporeans against their wills? At the people who disagreed with said policy. So is it any surprise that similar reactions are seen? Or do you think that Singaporeans should react to abrupt change differently than other people?

Said sentiments aside of course does not mean that offensive online vitriol and abuse is right.

It wasn't foisted on anybody. The recipients of those foreign workers/talents were mostly Singaporean companies owned wholly by Singaporeans themselves. They clamoured for the government to allow them to hire more expertise and labour. Not the other way around. Surely, you are not that naive? The government never forced anybody to hire foreigners, the businesses asked the government to relax immigration policies to allow them to hire more badly needed educated help. You might want to go back and reread your Singapore History and this time not play-play.

The offensive online tirades are by a very small percentage of the overall population and the 40% who voted against the current government is only a couple percentage points greater than the last 5 elections I've witnessed here. The silent majority knows which side their bread is buttered on. Those other vitriolic ones are the ones who just want their lives handed to them on a silver platter without earning it. They are the pathetic ones who are the laughing stock of Asia.

I've been here over 3 decades. It was called Singapore, Inc even back then. If the country wasn't pro business how would anybody eat? On all the farms? Manna from heaven? Oh, the non-Singapore owned companies? Their HR departments are usually run by Singaporeans. So how? Hoist by your own petard if you ask me. And as I said, it's only the crybabies who make noise, and they are only a handful. Anybody with an N level education, regardless of what they may say, can see that if they get their way, Singabore will go down the tubes in short order. In fact, they just got a taste of it with the last quarter's results with the surprise negative growth after 7 positive quarters. Where? Manufacturing. Why? Because of cuts in manpower (foreign). They pulled up stakes and moved to where they can get manpower. Did this get rid of some foreigners? Yep, sure did, and it also made a fair number of mid-level Singaporean supervisors, managers, technicians and such unemployed. Singaboreans don't like to do anything manual or service oriented for the most part, leaving only the lowest or eldest segment of the population for those types of jobs. Singapore has always been run like a corporation because, just like a corporation, they have no natural resources of their own, so they have to buy the natural resources in order to produce goods, etc., etc. When your country has full employment (and by international reckoning, Singapore does if the unemployment rate is less than 2% as that is considered structural unemployment) Where are these unemployed Singaboreans going to go? For every business, who cannot get enough manpower to satisfy it's stockholders demand for profits, that either winds up or winds up operations in Singabore, Singaboreans lose. At the rate you all are going, you all will become a backwater again within 20 years or sooner if the canal across the Isthmus of Thailand get off the ground. Even it's vaunted port will no longer be a requirement. Actually, you lost two majors there as well, Evergreen & Maersk. Suck it up, it's going to get a lot worse before it get any better thanks to the stupidity of a few.

And yes, you are correct. Singaboreans do not count as part of the country. That why they call them human capital. Disposable assets. Use them up and throw them away. That's exactly what they do to the FTs here as well, except make it more expensive for them to stay here and/or pay them substandard salaries, depending whether they are FT of FL. Just think though, without all the FT, Singaboreans would still be dirt poor as they wouldn't have been able to make obscene profits from reselling their flats to PRs at hugely inflated prices (they could have sold them to other Singpaorean for a lot less money but forget patriotism when it's pragmatic to make a fortune by ripping off the foreigners, right? So who drove up the housing prices? FT? Or greedy Singaboreans trying to maximize their profits at the expense of the foreigner who HAS to have a place to stay, either buying at inflated prices or renting from Singaboreans at inflated prices? The problem is, Singaboreans don't want to look into the mirror as they will see the real culprits who caused all the problems due to pride & greed.

[quote="JR8"]The EU has been foisted on the British people, and other countries, against their will. That was the politicians precise intention from the day the post-war blue-print for rolling it out was first penned.

As the original architect of the EU as we now have it, Jean Monnet, stated:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
[i]“Europe’s nations should be guided towards the superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation.”

I'm not sure why you responded with the macroeconomic recollection? My original point simply is that in any country where rapid change has been encountered, you will see such unbecoming reactions. Interesting what the troll topic lead to.

sundaymorningstaple wrote:

Sporkin wrote:So non-business owning citizens do not count as part of the country and therefore does not factor into the policy making decision? In this case it was the pro-business lobby pushing the policy in place, and to a non-business owner would this not seem like a policy enacted against his will?

Do people who disagree with policies not make vocal outcries elsewhere?That their opinion is 'right' or wrong matters not, to them it is right.

People are stubborn and will cling on to what version of 'truth' is most comfortable to them. You should always expect negativity whichever way policy direction turns.

sundaymorningstaple wrote:

Sporkin wrote:Isn't that rather similar to the way the open door policy has been foisted on Singaporeans against their wills? At the people who disagreed with said policy. So is it any surprise that similar reactions are seen? Or do you think that Singaporeans should react to abrupt change differently than other people?

Said sentiments aside of course does not mean that offensive online vitriol and abuse is right.

It wasn't foisted on anybody. The recipients of those foreign workers/talents were mostly Singaporean companies owned wholly by Singaporeans themselves. They clamoured for the government to allow them to hire more expertise and labour. Not the other way around. Surely, you are not that naive? The government never forced anybody to hire foreigners, the businesses asked the government to relax immigration policies to allow them to hire more badly needed educated help. You might want to go back and reread your Singapore History and this time not play-play.

The offensive online tirades are by a very small percentage of the overall population and the 40% who voted against the current government is only a couple percentage points greater than the last 5 elections I've witnessed here. The silent majority knows which side their bread is buttered on. Those other vitriolic ones are the ones who just want their lives handed to them on a silver platter without earning it. They are the pathetic ones who are the laughing stock of Asia.

I've been here over 3 decades. It was called Singapore, Inc even back then. If the country wasn't pro business how would anybody eat? On all the farms? Manna from heaven? Oh, the non-Singapore owned companies? Their HR departments are usually run by Singaporeans. So how? Hoist by your own petard if you ask me. And as I said, it's only the crybabies who make noise, and they are only a handful. Anybody with an N level education, regardless of what they may say, can see that if they get their way, Singabore will go down the tubes in short order. In fact, they just got a taste of it with the last quarter's results with the surprise negative growth after 7 positive quarters. Where? Manufacturing. Why? Because of cuts in manpower (foreign). They pulled up stakes and moved to where they can get manpower. Did this get rid of some foreigners? Yep, sure did, and it also made a fair number of mid-level Singaporean supervisors, managers, technicians and such unemployed. Singaboreans don't like to do anything manual or service oriented for the most part, leaving only the lowest or eldest segment of the population for those types of jobs. Singapore has always been run like a corporation because, just like a corporation, they have no natural resources of their own, so they have to buy the natural resources in order to produce goods, etc., etc. When your country has full employment (and by international reckoning, Singapore does if the unemployment rate is less than 2% as that is considered structural unemployment) Where are these unemployed Singaboreans going to go? For every business, who cannot get enough manpower to satisfy it's stockholders demand for profits, that either winds up or winds up operations in Singabore, Singaboreans lose. At the rate you all are going, you all will become a backwater again within 20 years or sooner if the canal across the Isthmus of Thailand get off the ground. Even it's vaunted port will no longer be a requirement. Actually, you lost two majors there as well, Evergreen & Maersk. Suck it up, it's going to get a lot worse before it get any better thanks to the stupidity of a few.

And yes, you are correct. Singaboreans do not count as part of the country. That why they call them human capital. Disposable assets. Use them up and throw them away. That's exactly what they do to the FTs here as well, except make it more expensive for them to stay here and/or pay them substandard salaries, depending whether they are FT of FL. Just think though, without all the FT, Singaboreans would still be dirt poor as they wouldn't have been able to make obscene profits from reselling their flats to PRs at hugely inflated prices (they could have sold them to other Singpaorean for a lot less money but forget patriotism when it's pragmatic to make a fortune by ripping off the foreigners, right? So who drove up the housing prices? FT? Or greedy Singaboreans trying to maximize their profits at the expense of the foreigner who HAS to have a place to stay, either buying at inflated prices or renting from Singaboreans at inflated prices? The problem is, Singaboreans don't want to look into the mirror as they will see the real culprits who caused all the problems due to pride & greed.

Let me play Devil's advocate here... I can see some Singaporean's point of view - it would be lovely to live again in a tropical colonial backwater... Oh shit I can just go across to Malaysia for that. Damn.