Someone else raised this topic, and it seemed strange and unlikely to me at the time. Yet, after further review. . . perhaps. Thranduil's father, Oropher, resented the domineering ways of the Noldor who returned into Belariand. He removed to the northern Greenwood from a region nearer Lothlorien, then still Lorinand or Laurelindorinand, in part to distance his kingdom from the growing power of The Dwarves of Moria (ha, Elf Flight, with much the same end results. Ah, the sweet humour of the Moria dwarves moving to a solitary mountain. . . right next door to the newer Wood Elf realm), but also because he resented the intrusive, if then sporatic, "meddling" in Lothlorien by Galadriel and her husband. In that we may more specifically read Galadriel, as her husband was neither a returning Noldor nor as strong of will. And, among the Noldor, she was not only very mighty but also very proud. Less so than her Uncle Feanor and his sons, but very proud and hard willed all the same. It can be understood how Oropher might have held that resentment, or at least personal resistance towards her, and it is not implausible that his son might have picked up some of the same.

In deeper but unrelated consideration, the more I think on the Noldor, the more apparent it seems that, in many regards, Sauron would have undertood many of their motivations very well, as he deeply understood Saruman's even without the aid of the Palantir, being of very like mind. "Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

I do not have the Silmarillion in front of me I am in in middle earth and boy is it beautiful today, I am in Hanmer Springs NZ, on the way to "Edoras" but for Thranduil to play "Swiss" on intervention is indeed cannon. I think Thranduil close up and personal in the film Hobbit will echo Thingol and the eleven kings stronghold will echo Menegorth which will be a real treat. I tried to save the shire , and it has been but not for me.

I would not be surprised if Jackson et al take it a step further, and have the Dwarves credited as having played a hand in some of workings of his realm, as the Norgrod Dwarves did in Menegorth. We shall see.

And I think Thranduil would certainly have worked in concert with Galadriel, but Unfinished Tales suggests that, if he bore his fathers sentiments, he may have been less than fond of her personally (or generically, as an intrusive Noldo).

In Reply To

I do not have the Silmarillion in front of me I am in in middle earth and boy is it beautiful today, I am in Hanmer Springs NZ, on the way to "Edoras" but for Thranduil to play "Swiss" on intervention is indeed cannon. I think Thranduil close up and personal in the film Hobbit will echo Thingol and the eleven kings stronghold will echo Menegorth which will be a real treat.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

You are about to have one of the best LOTR experiences in Middle-earth. "Edoras" is as magical as it seems on screen. You might feel as if you are an archeologist walking over the known site of an ancient civilization. And don't forget to look for Helm's Deep (and put a stone in your pocket.)

Is it magical or what to be in New Zealand discussing the Silmarillion on TORn with AinurOlorin in Maryland? The Professor could not have imagined this. Enjoy!

Didn't the real problems start with Last Alliance? Oropher and Amdir charging without waiting for Noldor's Gil Galad to give them order just because they didn't want to be given order to? both getting slain and Thranduil returning home with less then third of original strength? I can see him being completely pissed of at Noldor.

Didn't the real problems start with Last Alliance? Oropher and Amdir charging without waiting for Noldor's Gil Galad to give them order just because they didn't want to be given order to? both getting slain and Thranduil returning home with less then third of original strength? I can see him being completely pissed of at Noldor.

But there the blame lies entirely with Thranduil or more his father. If he holds an grudge against Galadriel (what I believe he does, cause he wasnīt part of the white council and couse of the Noldor in general), itīs just his stubbornness, she had nothing to do with the war and even if she meddled with the affairs of Lorien, she never did it in an aggresive way and was actually welcoem by the folk that lives thereand later when she took rule of Lorien she not even calles herself queen. I think his problem is maybe that he measures everything by the same yardstick, only because some Noldor did very bad things, he reduces her on that actions of her kin. And more ironie is that she is actually more Teleri, so on of his kin, than anything else.

and I think there was a combination of subtle intimidation, jealousy, old old disputes etc. Considering the length of their lives an awful lot of interactions and memories are stored. I just think Thraduil enjoyed his independence and wanted to govern his realm without too much outside influence. Their personalities just seem to clash.

hehe, well, Elves as we know well were certainly not as harmonious as the films have painted them.
[In reply to]

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Though of course by the end of the 3rd age there were no more real qualms amongst them haha. Makes me think if they became more peaceful, tranquil and reflective (more than usual anyhoo ) after the Last Alliance war. --I'm a victim of Bifurcation-- __________________________________________

Join us over at Barliman's chat all day, any day! __________________________________________

For me, Edoras was the most beautiful, the most fantastical location. I was there in December of '04. There was a ways we had to walk from the tour bus, across a field and even a rushing river about thigh deep. We had to cross in threes with arms interlinked due to the speed and depth of the water. I had never crossed a river in this manner. It was still quite cold and the glacial runoff feeding that stream/river was frigid. Then, climbing the hill in the center of that magnificent, huge valley and looking back down at our tiny tour bus. But, looking around at the surrounding mountains and the numerous streams created by the melting snow... one of the most beautiful sights in my life. I will never forget my two week LOTR movie location tour. I intend to go on another after all the Hobbit movies are completed. I have over 600 pictures - several of which I have had printed and framed. My own photos make up the wall decor in my living room. Makes for quite the conversation starter when guests notice and say "Where is that?" and "Did you take those?" and I get to say that i did and explain where they were taken (not all NZ).

gosh, i'm gushing here aren't it? Words cannot do justice to how I felt visiting the locations/landscapes of New Zealand. I think I was always the last person to return to the tour bus. I was so entralled at the beauty of NZ. My avatar photo is Lake Takepo in New Zealand's South Island. Taken by me in 2004 on a Red Carpet Tours LOTR Movie Location Tour. 'Twas the Vacation of a Lifetime!

Just very quickly, and not to hyjack his Maiarships thread, thank you for your thoughts. I have arrived at Terrace Downs for tomorrows trip.

On topic there are a number of points raised by A O in other threads which will lead me back to in particular Unfinished Tales. We are all aware that its material cannot by mined for these films and yet ironically to try and capture the spirit of Tolkien in the elaboration of Thranduil's character and the creation of Tauriel awnd other matters there is much that can be in their minds when subcreating. I think its fair to say that even the LOTR did not elaborate in the relative characterisations and reactions of say Elrond half eleven, Galadriel who had seen the light of the two trees and Legolas a Sindarin Elf. In one sense it added to the mystery but to reveal a little more of their truths as Tolkien envisaged in the long interaction on the nature of death between the Elf Lord and Lady of early men in the latter work on the Silmarillion I found intensely fascinating and more in that vein would be most welcome.. I tried to save the shire , and it has been but not for me.

His Maiarship! I love it,. You are a gem. And, forgive me for not having gotten around to it properly earlier, I hope you have a WONDERFUL time down in New Zealand, and I hope you get to do some set visiting. Also, I wish you a very safe voyage back, when the time comes.

And Unfinished Tales is well worth going back to! A treasure trove, even if the film team cannot directly use the material. I still think it could provide an excellent general guide for them all the same.

In Reply To

Hi Guys,

Just very quickly, and not to hyjack his Maiarships thread, thank you for your thoughts. I have arrived at Terrace Downs for tomorrows trip.

On topic there are a number of points raised by A O in other threads which will lead me back to in particular Unfinished Tales. We are all aware that its material cannot by mined for these films and yet ironically to try and capture the spirit of Tolkien in the elaboration of Thranduil's character and the creation of Tauriel awnd other matters there is much that can be in their minds when subcreating. I think its fair to say that even the LOTR did not elaborate in the relative characterisations and reactions of say Elrond half eleven, Galadriel who had seen the light of the two trees and Legolas a Sindarin Elf. In one sense it added to the mystery but to reveal a little more of their truths as Tolkien envisaged in the long interaction on the nature of death between the Elf Lord and Lady of early men in the latter work on the Silmarillion I found intensely fascinating and more in that vein would be most welcome..

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

You are about to have one of the best LOTR experiences in Middle-earth. "Edoras" is as magical as it seems on screen. You might feel as if you are an archeologist walking over the known site of an ancient civilization. And don't forget to look for Helm's Deep (and put a stone in your pocket.)

Is it magical or what to be in New Zealand discussing the Silmarillion on TORn with AinurOlorin in Maryland? The Professor could not have imagined this. Enjoy!

Well, this is magical, a conversation that spans the globe! (I'm in PA, not far from Maryland.)

Interesting insights! It's been awhile since I read the Sil and the other background history. I should know this stuff as Thranduil is one of my favorites! Go outside and play...