The Thorbuster armor wasn't effective against Thor, though, so it wouldn't have made a difference. Thor literally tore it apart with his bare hands when Tony tried to use it against him, and that was with an Asgardian power source that Tony wouldn't be able to duplicate now.

You think it had something to do with Tony's fighting skills? Frank is a very capable hand to hand fighter, I'd imagine he would be aware of the previous fight Tony had with Thor and make preparations, maybe locate one of Tony's old nemesis hand the armor over to him and re-tinker it. Sounds like something Frank would do to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kable24

I remember the tension between the vets. I think Cap wouldn't see it like that. He's a good hearted guy and believes a soldier no matter what branch or war they have fought they are still soldiers and brothers in arms.
There is definitely a "friendly" rivalry between the different branches of service. Especially when you get into the more specialized sections of Military like the Rangers, Marine Recon, SEALS, Green Berets and Delta. Always the mutual respect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kable24

A screen shot of the Punisher in the new Iron Man animated Blu-Ray
I'm picking it up just because of Frank being in it.

Should there be any other reason? I wonder whos voicing Frank? I hope someone with a heavy Queens accent. Deneiro would be my dream choice.

I also wanted to share my Black Ops 2 custom emblem.

Awesomeness.

If the roles were reversed and Frank fought in WWII and Cap in Vietnam they'd have different views of the world. Frank fought in a very sleazy, dirty underhanded war. Vietnam Vets came home to people disgusted with them and calling them all kinds of names and hate. WWII vets came home to heroes welcomes.

I always enjoyed when the Punisher and Cap would meet. I'd really love to see Cap and Frank have a beer and talk like he did with Thor.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. I don't understand why Rucka couldn't have simply explained Frank not aging by taking a serum, or maybe saving it for another future plot. Frank is an icon of the 70's, Cap the 40's. Why can't Marvel invent a character that was birthed from the 90's? I know full well how Vietnam vets were disgusted, I've lost many family members to drugs and agent Orange over that war. But you basically supported my point, each person has different views, based on the timeline they are from. Now the Punisher is as old as me, and frankly I could have served in the Middle East had I not decided to go to a particular shopping mall to buy a Sega CD drive on my day off (long story). Anyway, I'm glad Frank is finally crossing over with the Avengers, but it would have been so cool to see those old school Nam bread tactics against them. There was a feller in a wheelchair who served in the Vietnam war holding a sign looking for handouts, everytime I see something like that I think of Frank. Anyway....

As much i like this run with Rucka this is the point i didn't like too much, like changing his war origins. He could simply continued Remender's work and used the bloodstone stuff.

I agree with everything said above, every war is awful but when i think of Vietnam i think that there is no perfect example of a dirty war, probably the worst that most of the public had a negative thought about it. Most soldiers that came to US when the war "ended" were viewed by people like baby killers, murderers and rapists.

The Punisher moment was definetely when his family were gunned down in the park, but i believe that Vietnam helped him to be what he is today. All the guerrila warfare, accurate perception, skills, etc were shaped specifically by that war.

By the way i have posted in other forums about some conversation a had with Rucka last week on twitter about WZ issue #4.

I asked Greg Rucka how could Frank break into Stark Tower and he said:

Rucka: To clarify: we don’t -see- how Frank did it; you hear Tony’s explanation of -how- it was done. Tony ain’t happy. As you might guess.

Rucka: I will also say re: break-in, I cheated in Frank’s favor. It was either that or spend 20 pages showing how he did it.

Rucka: when in situations like that, I always try to favor moving the story along rather than slowing it down, y’know?

- One last question there is people asking why Thor let Frank go when they first met? He could had bring him in.

Rucka: The hope was that Frank would "see reason" and turn himself in - unless Frank comes willingly, Cap knows he'll self-destruct. It's what Logan says to Frank in WZ 1 about what solitary captivity will do to him. Thor is sent to plant the seed w/Frank.

Ah its sad this series only has one issue left. I have really enjoyed Rucka's run and would have liked it to continue. Its a shame as there are other marvel now series that are already selling lower than PWZ (the Ultimate books, red she hulk and Journey into mystery are a few I've noticed) that only got relaunched. Marvel should never attempted the second ongoing with fraction as that diluted the appeal. Fraction, remender and aaron's run all detracted from the character humiliating him at different turns and changing the character, really destroying a lot of the good work Ennis did in building Frank up as the most dangerous man alive. Rucka was the first writer since Ennis who got the character right but by that stage the Punisher had been spammed with so much rubbish he was over-saturated (I do enjoy Mayberry's MU vs series but they are only a few issues). It didn't help that the Ultimate universe and the new 52 happened at the same time as Rucka's launch. Bad luck/timing really. There were a few pacing issues which probably didn't help but thats just a narrative style and its fine. Its just a real shame.

I can see Ennis on the series again inside 2 years maybe 3, I cant help but think that Fury Max may whet his appetite for the character again. I always thought there is still a lot to explore with the character; what happened to Frank's extended family? I also feel there should be a series set solely in Vietnam prior to his punishing days. I would also like to have a series set in the past where the Shadowmasters plot thread was more fully explored, I don't know why they didn't finish that off.

Gotta say I loved this book, but am sad to see it go. I liked that it wasn't a huge crazy sloppy fight at the end. I felt it all wrapped up nicely and it was a good open ended close to Frank, in the way that a movie adaptation or video game would bring some finality, but not drive it home that no more tales could be spun.

I loved the final reflection by Pete that despite Frank being a killer, he tried to so hard to keep from hurting the Avengers and allowed Cole to escape. It's actually very ironic. Eddie Brock, came to a realization during his Anti-Venom days that he was always wrong about Spidey and buried the hatchet for good.

Man...all these feelings. Rucka, thou art a king of wordsmiths.

I have to say, throughout this, despite being brief in appearance, Logan was handled fantastically. I always saw Frank and Logan having an element of understanding or respect. Maybe not liking each other so much, but some respect nonetheless.

I just love how, as others have said, in this and Nightmare, Frank was shown as determined and hardcore, but a human being. Not the soulless killing factory as he's portrayed sometimes. Despite seeing himself as dead, Frank has feelings of honor, emotions (even if its just anger at monsters), and sacrifice.

I felt everyone was portrayed in a respectful manner without the need to throw in cheap no-sell wins. At first I was worried how Tony would fare, but his depiction worked. He's an Avenger, he's fought Aliens, Gods, False Gods, techno-beings from futuristic alternate realities and more. So a "crazy" guy with no powers and guns is beneath him.

I liked the inclusion of the subtle "pilfered weapons" Punisher throughout this run. It would only make sense for Frank to utilize tools to take on bigger threats. It wasn't as extensive as the past depictions, but I think it should have a place in future works.

I hope it's not too long before we get another Punisher solo book, but I do hope it's a good and interesting take in the manner Rucka approached.

Edit; I also loved Cole throughout this and was happy with her final fate.

The letters page in Warzone #5 hinted that a new Punisher series may be coming:You can catch more of Frank Castle in the current Marvel Now! hit book "Thunderbolts" and I've also heard rumblings from down the hall for some more plans in the near future. Keep your ears to the ground for more announcements" - Steve Wacker 1/31/13

Oh, and this entire series has been the amongst the best Punisher stories of the last decade. It comes second only to Ennis' work on Punisher MAX. Props to Rucka from a very long-time Punisher fan!

__________________"If you shoot, you're a killer. If you don't shoot, you have a death on your conscience. A death you could have prevented""What kind of a choice is that?""The one I make every time I pull the trigger"

As much i like this run with Rucka this is the point i didn't like too much, like changing his war origins. He could simply continued Remender's work and used the bloodstone stuff.

I don't like that either, Vietnam was central to the theme of the character. If Circle of Blood taught us anything maybe the next book would revert Frank back to his former origins via some fantastic explanation that could lead to another story. Maybe Frank was drugged.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spikes

I agree with everything said above, every war is awful but when i think of Vietnam i think that there is no perfect example of a dirty war, probably the worst that most of the public had a negative thought about it. Most soldiers that came to US when the war "ended" were viewed by people like baby killers, murderers and rapists.

The Punisher moment was definetely when his family were gunned down in the park, but i believe that Vietnam helped him to be what he is today. All the guerrila warfare, accurate perception, skills, etc were shaped specifically by that war.

By the way i have posted in other forums about some conversation a had with Rucka last week on twitter about WZ issue #4.

I think it would have made for a more thrilling story if Frank combined modern Marvel weapons with old school Vietnam bred tactics. Digging back Frank befriended the Xcutioner (an X-men foe who collected weapons). Had he used something of alien origin (as opposed to an AR-15 to shoot at Ironman) maybe the outcome would have differed. Frank managed to detonate Tony's suit, correct me if Im wrong but aren't those suits designed to be able to withstand nuclear explosions?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spikes

I asked Greg Rucka how could Frank break into Stark Tower and he said:

I think I can answer this...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spikes

- One last question there is people asking why Thor let Frank go when they first met? He could had bring him in.

Rucka: The hope was that Frank would "see reason" and turn himself in - unless Frank comes willingly, Cap knows he'll self-destruct. It's what Logan says to Frank in WZ 1 about what solitary captivity will do to him. Thor is sent to plant the seed w/Frank.

It's going to be pretty interesting to see where this goes. Overall it was pretty decent, yet I know Frank could have put up a better fight, how long has a roamed the Marvel world? Surely long enough to realize that someday super-powered individuals would be coming for him and prepare for their weaknesses.

Had he used something of alien origin (as opposed to an AR-15 to shoot at Ironman) maybe the outcome would have differed. Frank managed to detonate Tony's suit, correct me if Im wrong but aren't those suits designed to be able to withstand nuclear explosions?

I got the vibe that he probably screwed around with the internal powersource rather than just put like C4 into it. It was a great subtle hint, but since the early shots of his workshop in Rucka's run, there was an IronMan helmet sitting on the table. Maybe he didn't know how to do advanced stuff ("I can barley fly in this damn thing") but he probably got enough specs to see how to royally screw with it. Just my 0.02.

"I got the vibe that he probably screwed around with the internal powersource rather than just put like C4 into it."

How did he know how to do this I ask!? I think that's pretty amazing considering the lust for Stark technology so rampant among the MU. I believe you would need a PHD in rocket science to do anything with the suit much less rig it to blow. Added to that Frank must have also found a way to disable any type of tracking device as I am pretty sure Tony has covered all of his aces since old-school armor wars. Remember that? Anyway, I still think if Frank had enough prep time, and different weapons he could seriously rape the Avengers or at the very least give them one very bad day. At the risk of sounding like a one-sided fan boy I think Frank let them capture him so he could get intel and maybe steal weapons. The man was bad ass enough to kidnap Stark in his own home! I think he may just find a way to escape by talking **** to any Avenger who is assigned to feed him in his holding cell. (Hawkeye possibly?) I would really love to see how this goes.

Well having the IM suit able to protect from explosions when deployed is entirely different from it being in an open position ready for a pilot. Explosives are MUCH more effective when inside something, its the gasses trying to find a way out is the destructive element, otherwise your just surrounded by burning air. Besides as said before Frank probably learned the theory of how to self-destruct from the helmet's help menu using its own power before and then actioned that. Flying an IM suit even if you know how its supposed to work would be pretty tricky I should imagine till you had enough practice at it.

The last issue was great... which somehow made it all the more irritating to me. I would've loved to see what Rucka would've done with Rachel as the new Punisher. Instead, all of this gets swept under the rug for Way's s***ty Thunderbolts series. Damn shame how Marvel screwed Rucka over.

As for Iron Man's armor, I figured it's just really easy to pilot. Remember, Tony's a genius weapons designer and the people he sells weapons to are decidedly not geniuses. It's probably second-nature to him at this point to build his tech extremely user-friendly. Frank's a military officer who made it to a pretty high rank before leaving, and high-ranking military folks tend to have pretty good technical skills and training. Controlling Iron Man's more recent armors is probably somewhere on the level of controlling a tank, so it's plausible to me that Frank could figure it out without too much difficulty.

__________________
"This I grant to you: You may tell your grandchildren that you stood for a time against the mighty Thor."
- Marvel Heroes

Yep - already pre-ordered. I think the timing is pretty interesting too, with the new Iron Man 3 film due in the same month as this is released. Its actually a nice bump for the Punisher as it seems he is helping Stark flee SHIELD which is not how I was expecting this to go down.

In other news: Way is leaving the Thunderbolts! Hallelujah! If there is a Punisher title in Now wave 2 I would be very happy.

The...the plans for War Journal...oh man, the pain at the loss of awesome! WHY MARVEL?! Why did you guys mess with Rucka?! *sigh* oh well...I loved this interview and I look forward to all of Rucka's future works. He knocked it out of the park and would love to see him back on the title someday.

Yeah I'm bummed out with how the entire situation was handled on both ends. I doubt Rucka will ever work for either big 2 companies ever again. It sounded like he's sick of both of them. His run was amazing though, I was glad I was able to be on board from start to finish.

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by C. Lee

This is a message board...no one killed your mother or had sex with your dog.....try to move on in life.

I couldn't agree more with you guys but for any Punisher fan what really hurt was the plans he had for the character. It seemed that for a moment the Punisher could go back to a second golden age, hopefully with a little more quality than the 90's.