Readers' comments

While largely accurate about older Germans' attitudes towards its military, this video uniquely fails to capture the sentiments of younger generations of Germans that are now removed from WWII by two generations. Many younger Germans wonder how the economic powerhouse of Europe and one of the largest economies in the world is not taking more responsibility in global security issues. This came to the fore most recently during the conflict in Libya, where Germany once again sat in the back seat while Britain, France, and the US led the effort to intervene. This divide is even more strange when one considers the amount of weapons Germany sells to foreign countries (tanks to Indonesia, submarines to Israel), showing that we are technologically savvy when it comes to armaments production. The question is: what will it take for Germany to shed the ghosts of the past and adapt to the shifting geo-political landscape? There is almost no conceivable trigger that would cause such a shift, so it will likely come about only when a new generation of German politicians assumes the helm.

I think first of all the British and Americans as well as the French have to take as matter of fact that from the view of the young German generation al these nations never have been and never will be regarded as allies.
Young Germans can cooperate with everybody without any problem but young Germans never will be the allies of one of those nations.
Britain , the USA as well as France will have to deal their global political problems alone and first of all without Germany.
Germany is a a nation in defeat and an the worst enemy of all those three nations I noticed before.
In Britain the defeat over Germany is alive daily as a national character as well as it is in the USA and France.
The May 8th is the highest day of festivities since 67 years and it will be the highest day for the next series of centuries.
So German politics only can draw the perfect conclusion by all those anti-German celebrations after such a long time that they only have the only choice staying far away.
German politics has never been of any global interest for the last 67 years and the most important date for each German must be May 8 in 1945.
So just why should Germany start involving now 67 years after the most complete defeat of a nation and the worst humiliation of a nation had to undergo in history since 67 years and for the next series of centuries and become an ally of countries where Germany has been regarded and treated as nothing but a country of enemies?
The place of Germany is not in the world as a military power. Military power, nuking civilians, killing children and bombing kindergardens are never again a German business and from those permanent all over the world existing torture camps like Abu Ghraib Germans are meanwhile fortunately far away.
The post-war generations in Germany hate arms, hate playing the stupid and criminal role of soldiers and we have the good proverb in Germany that each soldier can be a murderer.
So I deeply understand the young German generation with their extreme reluctance even to their own soldiers and the little respect German soldiers get in their own society.
If German politicians still find some blockheads for playing mercenaries for Anglo-American political interests I do not mind but a very wide majority of the young Germans would see it as nothing but a waste for Anglo-American global interests as they are scarifying their lives in Afghanistan or somewhere else.
After the German constitution German soldiers never have to under any kind of a condition to do anything outside of their own country.
Even if the whole of the USA or the whole UK is burning never a German soldier ever has to do a single step into a foreign country.
Germany can send humanitarian aid but never soldiers.
The ret of the world has to accept the fact it worked absolutely fine without German soldiers the last67 years and it will world even better the sane way for the next series of centuries.
Britain, the USA and France are super-powers and they have more than enough young men they can draft into their armies and send all over the world and especially the British as the biggest super-power could do a little more for their global interests and for their American friends.
So why always crying for the soldiers of an enemy country which has been fooled and ridiculed over centuries and for the future in permanence?
Let the British do their damned job they owe to the USA and let them do it completely alone.
Germans and British fortunately never will be in the same boat for ever.
There is not anything I ever could discover which might ever be common between a British and a German.
We have been enemies and we will stay enemies and fortunately each bRitish gives ti every German since ever daily a permanent confirmation.
I only can agree what each British without any exception is saying each morning as he is standing up :Once en enemy - for ever enemy:)
So dear Brits do your job alone and win your battles alone.
Germany does fortunately no longer need to win any battle.
And you are right: We do not shoot because we have already abolished our arms:)
And we abolish even more of that useless military surplus.
Perhaps you can re-create your British Empire and we wish you the very best for it:)

Germany's military role has ended for ever at May 8 in 1945.
Since that date Germany never again did play any important military role by very good and everlasting reasons.
So tell me please any reason why Germany just now 67 years after the completest defeat of country in human history should change its point of view.
Only that it might be perhaps more comfortable or cheaper for the old super-powers is no reason at all for changing the German pov.
The re-education by the Western allies after May 8, 1945 have successfully transferred the German population into a deeply pacifist nation and therefore military actions or even a participation at military actions is out of any topic in Germany.
And BTW for the last 67 years the rest of the world could do very well without any military engagement of Germany . So why should Germany after such a long period of peaceful success change its mind only in regard of the comfort of its former enemies ?
Germany is widely engaged in humanitarian missions but military interventions wherever they might take place outside of Germany should never be again any kind of a German business.
The German political class is very well aware of the deep pacifist attitude of a wide majority of their voters and the deep mistrust into the German armed forces so that it will be politically impossible to decide for an extension of a military engagement.
Since 1945 Germany must stay out of the game and continue nothing but its peaceful way.

It's what kind of Value does the Bundeswehr bring to NATO; Consider the 9/11 Datum, all of Europe is a "Free Rider" on the American Empire world order (See "The Case for Leviathan"). Afghanistan was an agreed upon mission, skipping (lightly) over the way the American Neo-Cons perverted and diverted to Iraq.

Some Men Just Need Killing. Not that Osama was another Hitler, but you have to whack those brush league sociopaths too. (We need another term there, covering individualls who pose a threat to the ordered international system).

Which the Budeswher failed to contribute to, confining their activity in Afghanistan to large scale Fobbitry. So they have no grounds to complain about misguided American Adventurism, having made minimal efforts in the first place. It's the only way to deal with people that think they can shoot schoolgirls in the head.

Sir,
As a long-time professional soldier your article "No shooting please, we're German" seemed to me to misunderstand the ethos of the Bundeswehr and the attitudes of German politicians. As in all other NATO countries, German soldiers are servants of the state and they forego political activity while serving. There is nothing wrong with their fighting spirit nor the tradition they inherited from the Wehrmacht. The parts some of its officers played in the Stauffenberg plot were illegal but were hardly dishonourable in the circumstances. The Wehrmacht should not be confused with the military divisions of the SS, which were political forces. Like its Western European allies Germany no longer faces a territorial threat and hence has no need of conscription. On the other hand, the evidence of the 21st century so far is that German politicians have been quite right to feel nervous about foreign military intervention.
Yours sincerely
Bob Braithwaite

"The Wehrmacht should not be confused with the military divisions of the SS, which were political forces."

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I agree, but let's not forget that those "military divisions of the SS", the Waffen-SS divisions, no matter how politicized they were in theory, were formidable fighting units as well, often better than those of the Heer (Werhmacht) itself.

The Bundeswehr German Army are Boy Scouts with guns.
They are good at campfires, toasting marshmallows, and telling scary stories.
But they are unaccustomed to war fighting, sacrifice and dying.
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In this weakened state they do not serve the German People, EU, NATO or World anymore than than the Girl Scouts.
The UN needs smart projection of force and power to fight evil as in Libya, Sudan, Syria, Rwanda, Bosnia, or Somali pirates.
Not more soldiers acting as NGOs handing out diapers and high protein biscuits.
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Abolish them or Baptise them in Fire.
The Taliban and Jihadists are good fighters because they are prepared to die.
And if you are not prepared to match their conviction, you have already lost before the first shot is fired.
OR train an elite corps of Sexy, Ninja Girl Scout Assassins.

What's wrong with keeping them on your home soil in case of an attack of enemy forces?

Isn't that the reason for any army? Oh wait...you must be USian or Brit...used to send your boys to far away places to terrorize far away people for useless "causes" (useless for your own people that is, definitely not useless for your oligarchies and corporations).

I apologize!

Hopefully Germany will show you the deserved finger when you once again ask for "help" because your mouth was once again bigger than your abilities!

Even if the German political class wants to please the occupation forces in Germany, they actually have a very serious problem by recruiting enough young people for their army.
Among young people the German army is rather unpopular and militaristic games are out of topic.
The deep experience of 1945 made Germany to a pacifist country for ever and the nonsense that Germany must get defended in Afghanistan is seen as a bad joke by Germans.
If the German politicians as high commissioners of the occupation forces want to believe it or not, the German army will have no choice but to shrink in regard of the serious lack of people.
In a few years Germany will be one of the first nations in Europe without any armed forces.
Germans better use their money for Greece or Spain than wasting for useless military equipment they never will need:)

That is completely backwards. The role of the military is not to "fix things underwater" - it is to present a robust force to deter aggression and (when in the field) to destroy the enemy's ability to wage war against you. US soldiers are highly respected and admired and there is great honor in wearing your uniform in public. The strength of our military supports and guarantees our liberty and the liberty of others around the world.

I can't remember the last time I saw a man in uniform walking the streets. That said, soldiers don't make policy, they follow the policies of politicians who are guided by aims that are too often flawed and reprehensible. That turns soldiers into trained killers in the service of politicians with less than honorable intentions.

I don't respect people who blindly follow orders. Let others guarantee their own liberties. We don't have a mandate to save the world from enemies undefined. Messing around in other people's gardens has caused more damage than have moles and rabbits.

And, yes, I was in the military in the Cold War era. Thank me for your not having to speak Russian. ::smile::

The German Empire didn't supplant the Ottoman Empire in 1918, as they were both defeated by (amongst others) the British? The Germans were never in a position to do much tot he Arabs, for good or ill. The Britsh were.

Anti-German feelings among radical Muslims are almost non-existent because Germany is free-riding. You should not be proud of the fact that dangerous radical people with expansionist views and medieval morals get along well with you country.

And no one went to Afghanistan for fun. It cost lives, money, and is by all accounts a ****hole. But almost all western countries including those with strong pacifist credentials such as Denmark, Norway, Belgium or Luxemburg agreed that it just needed to be done.

Well at first they were supporting their American friends "get revenge" (not sure if this is the best phrase) for the brutal 9/11 attacks. But then they realized that a long mission in Afghanistan is just not worth it.

"You should not be proud of the fact that dangerous radical people with expansionist views and medieval morals get along well with you country."

I'm "proud" that Germany didn't do anything stupid unnecessarily to make people hate Germany. This should be common sense.

Short of killing everyone you cannot defeat an ideology with guns. Left alone the radical Muslims will liberalize and secularize just like the radical Christians and Jews have done throughout the course of history.

US allies did not go to war "for revenge". They went to war because they oonsidered those harboured in Afghanistan were a threat.

Moreover, our goal is not to impose our views on the Muslim world, but to protect those this ideology would victimise. I agree that we should steer clear of violence as much as possible and even keep out of the region, but we cannot tell or show the world that we will never intervene no matter what happens. There have been quite a few massacres, failed states and genocides recently that came about in part because the perpetrators were assured of Western non-intervention.

In short, America went too far invading Iraq, but Germany also goes too far with its army's strange philosophy.

What you wrote is something along the lines of what the Pentagon or State Department might write in an official press release, but few actually believe it.

My guess is that if you asked the laymen American why they went into Afghanistan they would say that it's to retaliate for 9/11.

Also the Americans knew perfectly well that the Taliban were harboring Al Qaeda before 9/11 and yet didn't invade until after that event. Moreover hypothetically if 9/11 took place in Canada, do you think the US still would have invaded?

"Moreover, our goal is not to impose our views on the Muslim world"

Did the USA not try to impose American style democracy on its conquered Muslim countries? How is that going in a country such as Afghanistan whose population clearly isn't ready for democracy?

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If Germany isn't at war then it doesn't need a large military. Germany isn't seeking wars in Afghanistan and Iraq like the Americans are.

The intervention in Afghanistan was under the threat scenario a legitimized campaign and unlike the Iraq adventure a reasonable response. In that context, I'd say it was at least a partial success. However, now it is a decade later, democracy still has no roots in their society. I'm too far away from this country to judge if Afghan people would say they their life has improved or that they even want or need this protection. Many, I assume don't.

Well, when it comes to Iraq, I pretty much concur with N. Burns, especially the last paragraph.

Regarding to the German army there should be (but won't be) a referendum, whether or not the Army should be "deployable" beyond NATO territory. I'm pretty sure a majority would be against it, but at least we would have clarified it once and for all.

i cant see the article so silly to comment but hey, as no one has comments i can not even try and guess what the artile says so can only add some irrevelence. Its solders today dont do the heavily lifting thats is done by the Brittish and American

In this blog, our correspondents provide reporting and analysis on the subjects of defence, security and diplomacy, covering weapons and warfare, spooks and cyber-attacks, diplomats and dead-drops. The blog is named after Carl von Clausewitz, the Prussian soldier and military theorist whose classic work, "On War", is still widely studied today.