The woman, identified as 54-year old Zeina al-Amour, is the only death so far in the firing, though at least five other Palestinians have been wounded, including three children who were wounded in overnight Israeli airstrikes against the strip.

Israeli military officials claim “at least 10” incidents of fire crossing the border from Gaza, including both rockets and bullets. So far, there are no reports of Israeli casualties in the clashes, which Hamas blamed on an Israeli incursion across the border.

During the 7 week 2014 invasion of Gaza, Israel killed some 2,200 Palestinians, overwhelmingly civilians. The Israeli government has repeatedly talked about the “next” Gaza War being much bloodier, with far more casualties, and officials always insist that the “next” war is only a matter of time. In recent years, Israel has launched a Gaza War of some sort about every other year, some larger than others.

Author: Jason Ditz

They always use as their excuse for the massive bloodshed when some of the militant wing of Hamas starts firing off their rockets blowing up a tree or something similar. As far as I can recall, they usually don’t kill anyone and the Iron Dome is pretty effective.

Mark Thomason

Hamas ought not to fire the rockets.

The point of Iron Dome was originally said to be to allow the Israelis a more peaceful response, to make peace despite risks.

Instead, it is used for greater immunity while destroying Gaza. They still “can’t risk” peace.

Reuven

The latest retaliation was against unprovoked Hamas mortar fire against Israeli soldiers. Hamas is escalating because they are bent out of shape that one of their operatives was captured by Israel and sang like a canary, identifying the location of Hamas tunnels into Israel. Alsi Israeli technology is becomingore effective at identifying them. Well there goes all the millions of Gaza reconstruction aid.

Tim

You did not adress anything Mark said

Reuven

I had already indicated that Israel is ready for peace whenever Hamas renounces aggressive war. After all Israel left Gaza in a bid for peace. The ball is in Hamas’s court, but they fear peace as it removes their entire reason for existence.

Israel of course is the only state in history to request suspension of economic aid from the US, which was completed 10 years ago. That leaves military aid, which would hardly be needed if there was real peace. Ot is true that Hamas and the PA have largely squandered the aid they have been given though thete are certainly lots of rich PA and Hamas officials as a result. Arafat stole many millions from his people. So they would not be happy to see the conflict end
.

John Wells

Nice donation chain there.

1. Military and OTHER aid to Israel
2. Most goes for bullying their neighbors, some in Offensive Operations, which is against American law for military aid.
3. Some of it comes back in the pockets of the “Israeli held territory (P. Buchanan)
4. Same beneficiaries alibi for Israel and continue the racket.

Reuven

All military aid goes for defense. Israel in fact has better relations with its neighbors now than at practically any time in its history including Egypt, Jordan, and even Saudi Arabia. Once again you demonsttste how ignorant you are. You ate operating on prejudice, not facts.

John Wells

If Iran had nukes their neighbors would get along better with them took you dunce. You are blinded by your own ignorance and belief you are superior to all normal humans, based on your master race theology.

Reuven

Israel has had nukes for 50 years. The Arab states are only engaging in mutual defense talks now with the threat of Iranian nukes. So once again you have demonstrated you dont know what you are talking about.

John Wells

There is no threat of Iranian nukes, so you appear to again be the dunce. Unless you live in la la land and see threats where none exist. Iran doesn’t even have a nuclear weapons program, much less an inevitable nuclear weapon. btw, who said Israel did not have nukes for 50 years?

Reuven

No Iranian nukes ehh? I guess you still believe in the Tooth Fairy too. The US media is full of stories today about how Obama lied to the American people about the treaty. Looks like when you are humiliated on one issue, you desperately jump to another. Par for the course for a hate Israel loonie.

John Wells

American Intelligence agencies’ consensus is that Iran doesn’t have a nuclear weapons program, much less your hoped for nuclear weapon(s). Then you can use your forever war, victimhood spiel for more settlements.

Reuven

As I said, people in the administration are now admitting they lied to the public. How about the Easter Bunny?

John Wells

Never have they said that, liar. The Intelligence Agencies of the United States of America say you lie.

Reuven

Ho Hum. Unlike you, when I make a statement I can back it up. Go back to hate Israel propaganda school- you havent turned out very well in your course on Lying 101.

Not one iota of anything in your article about Iran having a nuclear weapons program or any deceit by the Administration trying to cover up your wished-for idiocy.

Reuven

It confirms that the Obama administration deliberately misled the American people about how the treaty would prevent Iranian nukes. Iran tested a new ballistic missile today with a range of 2000 miles.

Multiple intelligence agencies, including Israel’s, have clearly stated they can find no evidence of an Iranian nuclear weapons program after 2003 at the latest.

Furthermore, Israel, a rogue nuclear power with an undeclared arsenal which jails its own citizens for revealing the existence of that arsenal, wouldn’t have the moral standing to complain about Iranian nukes if they DID exist.

Personally if there are going to be nuclear weapons in the hands of states, I would prefer to see Iran with a few so that they could better act as a regional counterweight to both the Arab powers and Israel.

Reuven

Missiles are necessary to launch and deliver nuclear weapons at a distance. The Arab states were never threatened by Israel’s nukes. Now they are all discussing nuclear weapons programs of their own in fear of Iran. Israel is no more a rogue nuclear state than India or Pakistan, or for that matter the US. That you would want a belligerent and aggressive fascist state like Iran to have nukes says much about your own status as a moral leper.

I don’t want ANY state to have nuclear weapons. But if states in the Middle East are going to have nuclear weapons — and one already does and there will eventually be more — I’d rather the Muslim state that has them to be Iran than one of the Sunni Arab states. Iran has generally been remarkable UN-belligerent. The only direct (as opposed to proxy) offensive military action they’ve take in at least 50 years that I recall was putting a battalion in northern Iraq in the 1970s to suppress Kurdish aspirations. A lot less heavy-handed than Saddam’s “Anfal” operation.

If the US is going to subsidize a belligerent and aggressive fascist rogue nuclear apartheid state like Israel to the tune of billions per year AND fight its wars of aggression for it on top of that, a little balancing out from over Persia way doesn’t strike me as a bad thing.

Reuven

Well it would be nice to have unoiversal nuclear disarmament. Israel acquired its weapons as a small country threatened by larger ones. But you must live in Cloud Cuckoo Land if you think Iran is non belligerent. Iran has been exporting terrorism for yrears now and has its army propping up the heinous Assad regime in Syria along with its terrorist puppet Hizbollah. Arab states jave good reason to combine with Israel to defend against Iranian bullying, particularly since the USis adopting a mouse-likr policy in world affairs and surrendering the field to Putin.

John Wells

The only mutual interests are religion, not defense.

Reuven

Of course Israel has mutual religious intetests with Saudi Arabia. I guess we are just meeting them to review the Quran. Is someone paying you to waste my time with inane posts? Par for the course for hate Israel loonies

John Wells

You said, “The Arab states are……” Where was Israel in your statement or my statement? Making things up out of thin air again, denier?

John Wells

There was an expose how Israel does pay posters to spout their party lies.

John Wells

Are you part of that $$ chain?

Reuven

Israel of course is the only state in history to request suspension of economic aid from the US, which was completed 10 years ago. That leaves military aid, which would hardly be needed if there was real peace. Ot is true that Hamas and the PA have largely squandered the aid they have been given though thete are certainly lots of rich PA and Hamas officials as a result. Arafat stole many millions from his people. So they would not be happy to see the conflict end
.

Cal2

” Reuven Tim • 9 hours ago

I had already indicated that Israel is ready for peace whenever Hamas renounces aggressive war.
>>>>>
I doubt most people on here just fell off the turnip truck yesterday,

Reuven

Looks like most fell off the truck long ago.

Reuven

Looks like most fell off the truck long ago.

Advocate4Liberty

Propaganda from an Israeli cancer cell?

“Unprovoked”? How about a decades-long occupation for provocation?

Mikronos

It’s Holocaust Day, hit Gaza.

Advocate4Liberty

Yep, Israelis behaving just like Nazi Germans. No big surprise there.

Reuven

Usually it is neonazis who make comments like that. But racists like you have a lot of company

O rly

“and almost immediately thereafter ended up launching strikes against the
strip, an oddly timed sequence which seems to have come virtually out
of nowhere.”

you may have forgotten, or may have not noticed at all, but right before every major attack on gaza, israel open an additional border crossing or allows in a larger number of trucks,

the nice half of me thinks its because they are about to destroy the infrastructure they might as well let in some more food before they cut it off completely

the cynical half of me, assume they use the increase in shipments to instigate large movements of people in the strip to facilitate chaos(families traveling to distribution points, government officials, police, security ect)

either way its rather shty

MahmudH

“Israeli tanks fired into the Gaza Strip today, with one shell hitting a civilian home and killing a Palestinian woman”

They used tanks to shell targets out of visual range? Sounds like indiscriminate, untargeted dumb bombs, exactly what the hypocrite media complain about Syria doing. Nothing new here.

Ronald Grump

Apparently you have never heard of aerial or satellite reconnaissance?

MahmudH

That’s irrelevant in a built up area. Tank shells are unguided, but they have long range – yes they can hit a target, but wind conditions etc mean they’ll also hit everything around it, i.e. all the neighbours.

Reuven

What a shame Hamas uses all the money they extort from the West to build tunnels to attack Israel and to launch missiles at Israeli kindergartens. What a fateful mistake the people of Gaza made in electing Hamas 10 years ago- under this fascist dictatorship they will certainly never have another chance to undo their error.

America Firster

You actually bought that nonsense about Israeli kindergartens being attacked? That’s precious. The truth is, of cousre, that it is Israel that has bombed dozens of Gazan schools (along with mosques, hospitals, homes, etc.)

Reuven

Of course it has been well documented that Hamas regularly fires missiles from or stations military personnel in normally protected civilian structures like mosques or schools or hospitals thus violating international law. It has also been well documented that Israeli schools including kindergartens have been hit by Hamas missiles. Only superior Israeli civil defense has prevented mass tragedy. In a word, Israel uses missiles as a shield for their civilian population. Hamas uses the civilian population as a shield for their missiles.

America Firster

“Of course it has been well documented that Hamas regularly fires missiles from or stations military personnel in normally protected civilian structures like mosques or schools” Bullspit. It has regularly been claimed by israel that this is the case but never documented — because it is horsespit.

Reuven

Hamas admitted it. See for example the Daily Mail for Sep 12, 2014. I find it very satisfying to demolish hate Israel yahoos because they are so ignorant as to what actually happened

America Firster

What? Hamas admitted what? Post your source.

Reuven

I gave you the source. Hamas admitted firing missiles from mosques and schools. If you knew what you were talking about, you would already know this as the articles made quite a splash in Sep 2014. But you just rely on hate Israel propaganda.

John Wells

and as Thomas Knapp said, you rely on hate Gaza propaganda.

Reuven

So a Daily Mail article which stated that Hamas admitted to violating international law by firing missiles from mosques and schools is hate Gaza propaganda? This is why it is so amusing to demolish the arguments of the ignorant hate Israel loonies who seem to bypass the brain when they compose their ludicrous retorts.

John Wells

The Commissions on the Gaza Massacres indicate you are wrong. As the big bully of the neighborhood, the onus is on Israel to treat their own people who are the wrong religion, the same as they treat the people of their favored religion. Just why would foreigners from Russia,America, and other countries have more rights than the native born?

Reuven

You mean the report denounced by the chairman of the committee as biased and inaccurate? Nice try!

John Wells

Obviously, threats and pressure put on him, because the Chairman approved it, and then the Regime, which it always does, used pathetic pressure tactics to make him somewhat recant. However, those other committee members were not such easy targets as the Chairman. After all, he might want to visit Israel some day.

Reuven

Obviously pressures and threats were used by extremists to make Goldstone go along with the ludicrous report initially written by those who could have written the report before any investigation to suit their biases. Goldstone’s error was in not demanding an objective, non-partisan committee.

Reuven

Like the Daily Mail? It was in other papers too. ROTFL

America Firster

Surely you understand that your claiming Hamas admitted to something is not a source? No? By the way, in 2014, Israel destroyed 19,000 homes in Gaza. The number of Israeli homes destroyed? One. Now how do tens of thousands of rockets rain down on Israel yet only one house is wrecked? Surely you must have an inkling that everything you were taught to believe about Israel is just a lie?

Gary Jones

Many Israeli buildings were damaged.

America Firster

Having a picture knocked off a wall is not quite the same as having a one ton bomb destroy your entire house an kill your family. Why would you even say such a dumb thing? You Israeli apologists are horrific people.

America Firster

Not true. Unless by many you mean one.

Reuven

Are you totally incompetent in using the Internet? Look st the Daily Mail for Sep 12, 2014. Your not even knowing this well known fact is further proof of ypur own ignorance. I am sure you can find the story in other papers as well

America Firster

Actually I can find this alleged story nowhere. Why not post the link if it exists?

Reuven

Now that I have given you enough rope to demonstrate your incompetence, I’ll spoon feed you the information. Read and weep, loser.

Oh my God. Did you even look at the video that claims to show Hamas “terrorists” firing rockets? It showed nothing of the sort. Effin hilarious that you would think this proves your point. All it proves is that you have been successfully conditioned to believe Israel’s lies no matter how blatant.

Reuven

The video clearly shows missile tracks emanating from “protected structures” in the midst of urban areas. Enough to put Hamas in the dock in the Hague.

Nice to see you are now tacitly admitting you were lying when you denied Hamas admitted using protected structures illegally to launch attacks. You are slowly but surely being backed against the wall as each of your lies is exposed. Sort of like a game of strip poker that you are losing.

America Firster

One totally unclear and unlabeled and undated video excuses Israel’s destruction of 19,000 plus Gazan homes, killing over 2,000 people? Zionism has made you insane. Where are the videos of the one ton bombs leaving Israel to destroy Gaza? Why not post a few thousand of those to give the proper perspective?

Reuven

4500 missiles launched against Israel justifies retalistin. Most of the Gazans killed were combatants, and most were killed in the intensive ground fighting during the war. Just what would America do if missiles were being regularly launched from Mexico against American cities. You still have been unable to provide one example of a nation in modern times taking more care to avoid civilians. Certainly British military observers praised Israeli restraint.

America Firster

Right. 4,500 missiles fired and not one person injured or one house hit. Very credible assertion.

Reuven

I will let the Palestinian ambassador to the UN Human Rights Council Ibtahim Khuraish in an interview July 9, 2014 answer this. “missiles now being launched against Israel- each and every missile constitutes a crime against humanity whether it hits or misses- because it is directed against civilian targets”

Hamas deliberately targeted the Dimona nuclear reactor, Ben Gurion airport, chemical plants in Haifa, anf rthe Rrez border crossing to prevent wounded Gazans from crossing to Israel for medical care. Hamas’s failure in the war wad not to anticipate the incredible success of Iron Dome in preventing Hamas missiles from hitting populated areas. As a result of the war Hamas began to concentrate instead on nuilding more and more tunnels to attack Israel from. Their latest violations of the ceasefire stem from impotent rage that now their tunnel strategy is failing.

Reuven

Just with a few minutes search I have found at least 3 cases of Israeli kindergartens attacked by missiles from Gaza. Hamas shrieks with joy whenever they manage to injure or kill an Israeli

The Israeli claim, as I have stated quite clearly, is that Israeli kindergartens have been attacked from the “terror tunnels”. This is a lie….unless you can show otherwise. Now if you want to list what schools were destroyed by the other side, then we can list dozens of schools in Gaza and zero in Israel. You can say they were attacked by ‘missiles”, but not a single Israeli school has ever suffered major damage.

America Firster

I looked into your claims. As I suspected, they are bogus. Here is all I could find when I googled hamas rocket attacks in connection with the above areas — you know, that you are claiming had kindergartens attacked by missiles. Unless you can show otherwise — my mind is open. 1. Palestinians fired a rocket into the Ashkelon Coast Regional Council, triggering sirens. After nightfall, a second rocket was launched into the same area. No injuries or damage were reported. Israel responded with an air strike on an underground rocket launcher in the central Gaza Strip.[15][16] 2. In the evening, Palestinian Militants launched two rockets into Israel. One landed in the Ashkelon Coast Regional Council, the other in the Eshkol Regional Council. No injuries or damage were reported.[17] 3. In the Hof Ashkelon Regional Council a rocket exploded in the open area, close to the border fence, no injuries or damage were reported. 4. 3 rockets were fired from Gaza at the Hof Ashkelon and Sha’ar HaNegev Regional Councils, after rocket alert sirens sounded. No injuries were reported. 5. A rocket hit an open area in Eshkol. No one were hurt, no damage was reported.[ 6. A rocket was fired early Sunday morning at the Eshkol region. The rocket landed in a field and no casualties were reported. 7. 2 of 3 rockets fired from Gaza fell in the Hof Ashkelon regional council in the afternoon. No injuries or damage were reported.[47] June 15 In Ashkelon a series of explosions were heard in the evening. 4 rockets were fired from Gaza, 2 of them were intercepted by the Iron Dome. Fragments of the rockets fell across the city. There were no reports of injuries or material damages.[48] June 16: A rocket from Gaza landed in an open area in the Ashkelon area. No damage or injuries

.
Etc. etc. etc. Not a word about any kindergartens being hit

Reuven

Obviously you are lying as the stories for the dates I have given are quite clear. And I did not claim kindergartens wete attacked from a tunnel but by missile attack

America Firster

I think we all know who the liar is, Reuven. Shall we list the hundreds of school, hospitals, and mosques destroyed by your beloved Israel.Not one, let me repeat, not a single Israeli school has been destroyed by Hamas missiles, which are unguided and carry no explosives. You racist vermin.

Reuven

You cant get around the article showing Hamas admitted using mosques. hospitals. schools as places to wage war from. Your lies stick in your throat. Name one country at war who has been more humane than Israel or taken more care to avoid civilian casualties. Go ahead- the US or Britain in Iraq, France in Algeria, Russia in Chechnya or Syria? Go ahead, liar!

America Firster

I see. So Israel literally destroys thousands of homes, hospitals, schools, and mosques — but it isn’t their fault! It’s Hamas’s fault! Israel’s super military (thanks US taxpayer and US weapons) vs. Gaza — which has no military. Over 2,000 gazans killed in the summer of 2014 vs. less than 10 Israel civilians…but, yet again, Israel is the moral side. You are sick, very sick Reuven.

Reuven

Yes it is Hamas’s fault as the aggressor is responsible for the casualties his actions precipitate.
I am still waiting for you to give me an example of any nation who has conducted a more moral war trying to avoid civilian casualties than Israel. I see the US is now using the Israeli tactic of “knocking” on the roof in Afghanistan to warn civilians to evacuate houses before bombing them. Since you claim to be “an America Firster” no doubt like Charles Lindbergh and Father Coughlin, that should interest you.

America Firster

A moral war by Israel? My God, you are so twisted by your racism. As an American, I put the needs of my fellow citizens ahead of the racist, colonial, apartheid project thousands of miles away. You ought to try it.

Cal2

Well if I were a Palestine I would be with Hamas.
Its too bad a mostly defenseless Palestine turned out to be your Promised Land.
If it had turned out to be Virginia or Texas or some portion of the US the UN awarded them in 1948 Israel wouldnt be an issue today—-it would a short foot note in the dustbin of history because you would have been wiped out by inhabitants of the state whose land you tried to tried to steal.

John Wells

The Israelis are much better at killing enemy (their own people) babies than vice versa. If you had let them prosper and thrive and not stolen their land and homes, they would have lived in harmony with you. Now it’s probably too late because you’ve killed too many of them with living survivors who want revenge.

Reuven

Israeli Arabs are prospering. Every survey shows an overwhelming number want to retain Israeli citizenship rather than be part of a Palestinian state. Must be really frustrating for the hate Israel loonies

John Wells

Only the lower class ones in Israel proper, not the territories where you still have most of them on a “starvation diet”. Must be real hard for you to keep lying with your Islamophobe nonsense.

Reuven

“Lower class ones”.. Are you suggesting that Israel is now a socialist state improving the lives of the downtrodden masses? That will disturb your leftist buddies. Actually it is the Arabs who are doctors and lawyers and Supreme Court justices in Israel who have benefited the most.

As for starvation diet, UNESCO stated a few years ago that the Palestinians had a longer life expectancy than Americans. Israelis too of course. So whatever diet they eat is clearly better than yours.

dahoit

You clowns are not funny.
The people are in a prison with Hamas.They are a captive target for Israeli force.
Fish in a barrel.Caged mice,toyed with by scumbag cats.
Its good to be the king eh?

Reuven

When Hamas stops firing on Israelis or using their cash infusions to buld tunnels to attack and kidnap Israelis, there would be no war or blockade at all. The prison was created by Hamas. When they allow free elections, the people will probably evict the Hamas war criminald

Is there any particular reason to believe that either claim is untrue?

America Firster

Yes, Not a single Israeli kindergarten was ever attacked by Gazans. Not a one. You, or course, can prove me wrong by documenting such an instance….but you will not be able to do so because t has never happened

Well, there’s a bit of weasel-wording involved there. If we’re talking about Israelis attacking Gaza, your version of “documented” is “someone said it.” If we’re talking about Gazans attacking Israel, your version of “documented” is not only much stricter, but any material threatening to meet it will be greeted with “source must be biased, fingers in my ears, can’t hear you LALALALALALA.”

Yes, the accounts show clear pro-Israeli, anti-Arab bias. And the accounts of atrocities in Gaza show clear anti-Israeli, pro-Arab bias. Nothing wrong with bias, but let’s not pretend either side is composed entirely of angels.

America Firster

Still waiting for the documentation of one Israeli Kindergarten being attacked from “terror tunnels” which is the post you are responding to. I guess. Your actual reply is in fact completely unrelated to my request.

No problem. I do try to get around to check for held comments as often as possible, but sometimes it will be awhile. This is a very part-time job that I do in between about a hundred other things I do (some for Antiwar.com, some not). I appreciate your patience.

America Firster

Knapp: “Your request was for “documentation” of a Hamas rocket attack on a kindergarten”. Now you are just lying. Lets cut and paste the actual exchange: Reuven: “What a shame Hamas uses all the money they extort from the West to build tunnels to attack Israeli kindergartens” . Then me: You actually bought that nonsense about Israeli kindergartens being attacked?

The rulers of Israel are, of course, not indigenous to the Middle East, never mind Palestine. From Begin, to Barak, to Meir, to Netanyahu, to Sharon, to Livni, to Lieberman, to Adelson, etc. Name any prominent Israeli that anyone has ever heard of and then go back no more than three generations and you will find their ancestors are from Russia or Europe (or America). So, please. Don’t give us this Israelis are indigenous BS.

Go back three generations from me and there are Germans and Irishmen. I was born in Memphis, Tennessee. I would be an indigenous American even if there weren’t also Cherokee and Blackfoot people the same number of generations back.

Your problem with the Palestiniant Jews isn’t that they aren’t indigenous. Your problem with the Palestinian Jews is that they’re Jews.

Cal2

Actually in the pure correct meaning of indigenous you would not be —I would not be either even though my American ancestors go back to 1622.
A time requirement for being indigenous has not been established to my knowledge.
But a pecking order for ‘degrees’ of being native goes something like—>
native American Indians
then Western European setters of the Brits ,Irish, Scots, Dutch, Germans and the black Africans that were brought to the colonies
Some Spanish in the southern most colonies
Some French but they got assigned to us by default when we bought La. from the France.
then a mix of smaller immigrants from various lesser countries
then the Ellis Island immigrants.

You could stretch indigenous to being indigenous to America ‘after’ it became America the nation but not indigenous to the ‘land” that became America.

“Indigenous In*dig”e*nous, a. [L. indigenus, indigena, fr. OL. indu (fr. in in) + the root of L. gignere to beget, bear. See In, and Gender.] [1913 Webster 1. Native; produced, growing, or living, naturally in a country or climate; not exotic; not imported.”

I am native to North America. I was produced in Memphis, grew up in Missouri, and live in Florida.

Any Israeli born in Tel Aviv is more “indigenously Palestinian” than Egyptian-born Yasser Arafat was.

America Firster

Is that your way of avoiding having to admit that Israel is totally dominated by people whose families come from far away?

John Wells

and how many of the ancient Israelites are now called Palestinians. After all, they never left.

Gary Jones

The occupied are occupied because they attacked Israel.

Cal2

I am proud of being against Israel now that you put it that way.
I am against all bullies, thieves , outlaw lawless states, war mongers for greed and all the ”we are so special we are above all moral standards and laws’ criminals’. Which is why I am against my own country half the time and want to ream it out –its become too Israeli—as if it didn’t already have enough problems in sticking to the principles it was founded on.

John Wells

Oh correct. There were some mean SOBs killing good Germans during the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, too.

John Wells

Not a Gaza War, but a Gaza Massacre.

Gary Jones

Palestinians started the violence.

John Wells

Palestinians want nationhood in the land of their birth, just like the imports do.

Gary Jones

If Palestinians really wanted nationhood, they would have declared independence after the 1948 war. They would not have asked for union with Jordan.

John Wells

Hard to declare independence when vast numbers were ethnically cleansed.

Reuven

The Pals never asked for union with Jordan- Jordan never gave them any optiond. On the other hand they neber showrd much interest in a state either. The original PLO charter in 1964 stated that the PLO disclaimed any Palestinian claims to the Wrst Bank or Gaza.

Reuven

Then why didnt they demand nationhood during the years of Jordanian and Egyptian occupation between 1949 and 1967?

John Wells

Because they were treated well, unlike the way their Cruel Masters treat them now. The Jordanians and Egyptians didn’t bulldoze their homes for foreigners to occupy,.

Reuven

Israel announced after the Six Day War that they would return all territories obtained except Jerusalem for a permanent peace. The Arabs at Khartoum refused any negotiation or peace whatsoever. Pity you shoot your mouth off with such ignorance of the Middle East!

Bill Rood

No. The violence started as soon as the first political Zionist arrived in Palestine, guided by political Zionism’s core values, transfer and deception. Don’t believe me? In 1895 Herzl wrote in his private diary:

We must expropriate gently.. . . We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our country…. Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out dis­creetly and circumspectly.

Gary Jones

Launching 12,000 rockets & mortars is aggression.

Advocate4Liberty

Fireworks? what sort of moron are you? or do you believe that people on this site are?

We KNOW what Israel is. Just because they have loud supporters here – far beyond their tiny 2.5% of our population – doesn’t mean that everyone listens.

Especially those of us capable of rational thought and critical analysis.

John Wells

Nice number out of the twilight zone – about as lethal as 4th of July bottle rockets. Killing is aggression and Israel is the bigger aggressor by far.

Cal2

I see a lot of the usual suspects howling over the Nazi comparison.
So I usually refer to them as ‘midget Nazis.’
Same supremacy mentality as the master race mentality just not big enough to do what Germany did.
If Isr had the military machine of Nazi Germany and wasn’t somewhat restrained by other governments they would wipe out the Palestines—and a few others like Iran..
No doubt in my mind about that.
Slo mo genocide of Palestine—courtesy of US taxpayers and Israeli occupied US congress.
Number one flag ship of US foreign lobby political corruption.

If you’re referring to the Arab population of Palestine, VERY slo mo — it’s growing, not shrinking. And not just growing, but growing faster than the Jewish population.

Cal2

Hummm…..I am thinking to be mystical I might chalk that Palestine growth up to the old —“the wheels of God grind slowly but they grind exceedingly fine”.
Or maybe nature which is always seeking a species survival ‘balance’ when not interfered with, is branching out into the human species survival ‘balance.’
However I did read a JP article last year on the falling reproduction rates in Israel—-cant remember all the reasons they gave but Israeli men were losing sperm count at an amazing rate—I seem to remember that blame was cast on various things like hormones in milk products in Israel and other food sources affected by fertilizer run offs and contamination of some crops from crop watering using certain river water sources.

John Wells

That’s why Israel needs foreigners to displace the natives.

John Wells

Same as Nazi Germany in the 30s.

Reuven

Just like Germany had a free election in 1933 and never had another, so the PA and Hamas have never allowed another election in 10 years. Another similarity. Both Hitler and Abbas declared their nations would be Judenrein

John Wells

You sound just like a Nazi with that Judenrein German. The Eastern European countries declared their nations Nazirein too, after what they did.

Bill Rood

If Israel wants to exist it has to give up and back all the land it has stolen beyond what it was awarded in UN Res 181

“There IS NOT a dimes worth of difference between King Abdullah Arab ‘s objections to the masses of stateless Jews invading Palestine in the 1940’s and the current Americans majority’s opposition to the 30 million illegal immigrants into the US.”

Odd comparison, given that it takes 100% opposite sides vis a vis the validity of the claims of alleged European colonizers.

Not sure why you would think you need my permission, or why I would be in any hurry. Since I haven’t mentioned Goldstone, why would I care what you have to say about him or how long you take to say it?

Cal2

I posted that because I saw my comment was on hold for some reason.
It wasn’t posted to you necessarily –but to whoever or whatever moderates the comments.
I thought it might have been held because I didn’t cite the sources for what I said.

We don’t hold comments because of quality issues, e.g. sourcing. Stuff like that is a free for all. We get rid of spam and hate speech, and we have automated filters to catch various things that MIGHT be that. I didn’t design all of them, and they’re imperfect, so I end up approving 90% of stuff that gets held. Working on improving that. Of course, I got stuck out of the house for about 9 hours so now I need to catch up!

Cal2

o.k.,,,,,I get it now.

Reuven

Unlike Hamastan and the PA we have freedom of speech. A strange concept for many Israel haters

John Wells

Only for the chosen and that’s in jeopardy.

Reuven

Hitler and the Mufti (and the British) made sure most European J3ews were never able to reach Eretz Israel.

The majority of Israelis are native to Palestine, not “imported.” Their PARENTS may have been “imported.” They aren’t.

Cal2

For the sake of ending the disagreement over ‘indigenous’ I’m gonna try and make some lemonade.
I will (sort of) agree that current Israelis can be native to Palestine –Because even thought born in the ‘state of Israel’ ,Israel sits on Palestine ‘land’,
And on even more reflection if taken that way it is a great double edged sword for the uber Zionist who may use it because it acknowledges that the ‘land known as Palestine’ did and does exist.
So I’ll take it.

The reason I argue the matter is simple: Complaining that Israelis are “Europeans” or whatever completely misses the point.

How do the rightful property claims of dispossessed Palestinian Arabs become any more or less legitimate based on where we say the people who drove them from their homes are “from?” Trying to make it an “indigenous” versus “native” matter erases the existence of the real people in favor of notional collectives that are more useful for propaganda and less useful for actually understanding the reality of what’s going on.

Does Israel’s apartheid system, with its coerced “homelands” for Arabs, its “Jews Only” buses and roads, its work permit impositions, etc. become any less evil if the people imposing it are “from” the same neighborhood, or any “more” evil if they aren’t?

I’d like to see peace in Palestine. For there to be peace, there has to be justice. And for there to be justice there has to be understanding. Unthinking repetition of collectivist slogans promotes none of those three things.

Cal2

Actually Thomas we are just arguing over ‘semantics’ and the implication of the words–indigenous – native.

Which is probably useless anyway imho—when and if any settlement ever does come I doubt that will be any kind of major factor except maybe for the Palestine refugees and any kind of ROR for them.

After 15 years of observing I/P and getting bogged down in all the pipul and everything but the kitchen sink thrown into arguments by activist I always have to cut to the bottom line and revert back to the simple morally and legally ‘right and wrong’ from the beginning of Israel .

And if you do that factually you can see what Justice –or as close to justice as reality will permit—would be for Palestine.

‘Over complicating’ the problem and the story serves Israel’s uber Zios’s Greater Israel purpose so I try to keep it simple for people when I talk about it.

Occasionally as in this I get side tracked—-my bad.

John Wells

The Lobby always, I mean ALWAYS reverts to the old worn-out victim card for their present day actions, when they run out of other pleadings.

Furthermore, ask the Israelis in Gaza and the West Bank, that means all of them regardless of religion, how family raising has been going and their quality of leave under their cruel Israeli regime.

Reuven

Ahh the sinister Lobby with a capital L. Dont forget the Illuminati and the Elders of Zion. ROTFL

John Wells

I don’t have any family in Israel Proper or their colonies in the West Bank and Gaza, therefore I make informed comments based on facts, not religion or emotion.

Reuven

Strange rationalization for the complete ignorance you demonstrate on Middle Eastern affairs.

John Wells

According to Holy Writ, you killed all the people when you got there and stole their land too.

Reuven

Maybe you better read Holy Writ again. The Canaanites lived in the Land until they along with the 10 tribes were exiled by the Assyrians in the 8th century BCE. Archaeology confirms this. The Assyrians were thr first of many colonial empires such as the Babylonians, the Persians, the Seleucids, the Romans, the Arabs, the Crusaders, the Ottomans who later stole the Land.

John Wells

Hogwash, your comment does nothing to refute the fact that Holy Writ says the Israelites (present day Palestinians) were ordered to kill all the humans and beasts when they got their and stole the land.

Reuven

Well it is clear that the Israelites didnt do it since the Canaanites survived to be deported along with the 10 tribes. So if you have a complaint, take it up with G-d.

Reuven

That is hardly holy writ. The problem is that just about no one in the world really believes it- particularlly all the Arab states of the Middle East.

John Wells

And you will stake your life on some of the Arab states in the Middle East, many of whom hate Israel as much as they hate the rival Shia regime? It’s not a matter of “belief”, it’s a matter of fact that the US and Israeli intelligence apparatus know they don’t have a program. And, your confusion and/or ignorance over terms of the agreement regarding a nuclear weapons program and ballistic missile technology is self inflicted.

John Wells

When you speak of “no one in the world believing” – you should look in the mirror and know that no one in the world believes a word out of the mouth of the ever expanding Israeli regime.

Reuven

Hardly a week passes without some foreign delegation or other landing here to negotiate a new trade or scientific relationship with Israel. So although there is still some Arab blackmail leafing some of these ststes to vote for meaningless UN resolutions, they still seek every pretext to seek closer ties with the Startup Nation

John Wells

Your whole self induced ignorance is because you want know area countries challenging your goals of a Greater Israel and radical Judaism.

John Wells

All of the Judeofascist attacks occur in Muslim countries.

Reuven

Israel has not fought in another Muslim country for many years- when she was repelling terrorist attacks out of Lebanon. Israel’s role in the Middle East has been quite constructive. For example, it is only because of Israeli pressure that Syria was prevented from conquering Jordan in the early 70s. Israel also cooperates with Egypt on a unified policy against terrorism emanating from Gaza or the Sinai