Saturday, November 5, 2011

Islam and Slavery

Islam thrives in an atmosphere of ignorance, for ignorance of Islam's teachings allows Muslims to deceive unbelievers. For instance, in the West, Muslim apologists often claim that Christianity promotes slavery and racism, while Islam advocates liberation and equality. Such nonsense often goes unquestioned, for people don't know enough to challenge the absurd claims.

56 comments:

Christianity thrives in an atmosphere of ignorance, for ignorance of Christianity's teachings allows Christians to deceive unbelievers. For instance, in the West, Christian apologists often claim that Islam, promotes slavery and racism, while Christianity advocates liberation and equality. Such nonsense often goes unquestioned, for people don't know enough to challenge the absurd claims.

I would love to hear exactly how the muslims debaters answer this question without referring to :well US was a nation of slavery too.

I mean let's look at it. Wherever Islam came to, I don't see a superpower after that. I see only destruction for the last 1400 years.

Some of their point was:1. Muhammad free slaves! Yup, also buy and trade and DID NOT abolish slavery.2. Muhammad hold the high standard of living for the slaves. Lol, as well as you may have sex with what your right hand possesses even if they are married!.

Your religion has been a very important perpetrator of slave trade in this world from the very start and the Islamic countries are the one of the few ones that haven't gotten totally rid of this disgraceful phenomenon!

In Iranian analas of 7th century it is written how the arab armies of Umar Ibn Abd-Al- Khattab attacked my country and enslave many people including children! The man who killed Khalif Omar Ibn Abd-Al-Khattab was an enslaved Iranian warrior name Abu Lu'lu' or Pirouz Nahavandi who was really fed up and angry with Muslims treatment of Iranian slaves and how the Muslim Arabs were exploiting them.

And this was your "rightly guided khalif"!!! I wonder who "rightly guided" him to commit such acts of cruelty and atrocity!! How enslaving children is right guidance is beyond me.

But what strikes me the most about you guys is your TOTAL and UTTER lack of self-critiism and self-reflection and sense of shame and sorrow for your historically proven atrocities!

When Germans learned about Hitler's atrocities they were so remorseful that even till this day they feel shame and pay reparations to the victims of their crimes.

When Christians revisited the history of The Crusades, Even though the crusaders were trying to defend the Christian holy sites and their fellow eastern christians from the Islamic assault, their descendants felt real shame because some of the crusaders behaved in a violent and very unchristian manner.

The west has been ashamed and remorseful for participating in slavery and even though many westerners had given their lives and limb in order to eradicate this abomination still the western consciousness is very much guilt-ridden and ashamed because of having had a hand in slavery in the past.

But you Muslims are totally shameless!!! When you hear that your religion and even your highest religious authorities themselves were slave traders and genocidal violent people you don't even bat an eye! It just goes into one ear and falls out of the next or you start to point fingers at others (westerns, christians, americans,etc...)

The Islamic world needs confession and atonement for its crimes!!! You need to come clean! You need a thorough cleansing of your collective soul and conscience! But unfortunately your religion teaches you to deny everything and pretend that evil is good and good is evil and never allows you to seek atonement! Shame on all of you! Wake up!!! You owe the whole world a serious apology if nothing else!!!!!

Kim: So in other words you've given up completely on the appearances of honest debate? You now acknowledge that you "refuse to look a the other side" as you put it?

Because if you were being honest (and not a hypocrite) and willing to look at all sides, you'd be able to show how Islam is indeed the religion of peace and tolerance and how all of those many many Muslims in the ME are misunderstanders of Islam.

did the Prophet ever encourage castrating and torturing slaves? Or did to free them? did he not free many slaves as well? its would be very stupid of me to point out Christian atrocities worldwide and say their religion is false from that. these arab slave traders are ridiculous I know, but their forcing free African men into slavery IS HARAM and a gross sin.

Do your homework and study Slavery in Islam from a non hate mongering website that presents factual information that isnt twisted to fit the desires of some wannabe scholars.

Seriously Kim, are you really this dumb? Christians, like William Wilberforce, put an end to the slave trade in Europe. Christians in America also stood up and said it's wrong and put an end to the slave trade here too. Yes, ignorant people claiming Christianity resisted it, but it was Christians, and not Muslims, who said it's wrong.

@Kim - Do your homework and study Slavery in Islam from a non muslim website that presents factual information that isnt twisted to fit the desires of some muslims.

Here are some articles by a former muslim: -http://www.faithfreedom.org/articles/persecution-by-islam/islamic-slavery-part-1/http://www.faithfreedom.org/articles/persecution-by-islam/islamic-slavery-part-2/(there are ten parts to that so read them all).

Other articles:-http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/015-slavery.htmhttp://answering-islam.net/Silas/slavery.htm

@Kim: We don't do our Islamic "homework" and research on ANY website! We look at the primary sources such as Quran and Hadith and Al-Tabari or Ibn Hisham's sira and come to our own independent conclusions. Only later we go to websites to see if those websites are honest and are reporting the truth about Islam or they are lying and whitewashing it!

Just because after reading the sources we came to conclusions that you don't like it doesn't mean we are biased or "hateful" or anything like that! We are just reporting to you the facts that we encountered upon our independent research. So don't shoot the messenger!

If the subject of our research (Islam and Muhammed) turned out to be rather embarrassing and sordid that doesn't mean that we are distorting or being biased. In fact if we try to whitewash the Islamic atrocities and lie and pretend that everything was wonderful then we would be dishonest and biased!

I recommend to you instead of running to some Islamic propaganda websites once you are confronted with some shocking facts in your religion in order to reaffirm your faith and alleviate your doubts, go to the primary historical sources and references provided to you by exposers of Islam and see for yourself what your prophet did or said. Don't stick to hearsay on either side. Go read the sources.

And then if you check the primary sources you will no doubt see that your prophet was a first rate slave owner, slave trader and enslaver of previously free people. So what is the use of setting free a small portion of what you have enslaved with your own hands, in order to pretend that you are charitable while you are actually keeping most of them in slavery and selling them for a profit or sleeping with them and using them sexually? How about not enslaving them in the first place? But that was never part of your prophet's agenda!

So stop defending that immoral man that you call your prophet! If the TRUTH about your religion and your prophet embarrasses and annoyes you then it is time to change your religion!

The Prophet said, "The freed slave belongs to the people who have freed him," or said something similar.

Volume 3, Book 41, Number 598:Narrated Jabir: A man manumitted a slave and he had no other property than that, so the Prophet cancelled the manumission (and sold the slave for him). No'aim bin Al-Nahham bought the slave from him.

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 137:Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

We got female captives in the war booty and we used to do coitus interruptus with them. So we asked Allah's Apostle about it and he said, "Do you really do that?" repeating the question thrice, "There is no soul that is destined to exist but will come into existence, till the Day of Resurrection."

Volume 3, Book 47, Number 765:Narrated Kurib:

the freed slave of Ibn 'Abbas, that Maimuna bint Al-Harith told him that she manumitted a slave-girl without taking the permission of the Prophet. On the day when it was her turn to be with the Prophet, she said, "Do you know, O Allah's Apostle, that I have manumitted my slave-girl?" He said, "Have you really?" She replied in the affirmative. He said, "You would have got more reward if you had given her (i.e. the slave-girl) to one of your maternal uncles."

Volume 3, Book 34, Number 351:Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah:

A man decided that a slave of his would be manumitted after his death and later on he was in need of money, so the Prophet took the slave and said, "Who will buy this slave from me?" Nu'aim bin 'Abdullah bought him for such and such price and the Prophet gave him the slave.

"The Prophet had suddenly attacked Bani Mustaliq without warning while they were heedless and their cattle were being watered at the places of water. Their fighting men were killed and their women and children were taken as captives" (Bukhari 46:717)

It is true as Kim says that the Koran nowhere talks of castrating men but makes a reference to what seems to be EUNUCHS(castrated men).

Go to quranbrowser.com to verify and you have 10 TRANSLATIONS(6 by Muslims,4 by nn-Muslims),plus the Arabic in Latin letters.

Sura 24:31

"And say to the believing women, that they cast down their eyes' and guard their private parts, and reveal not their adornment save such as is outward; and let them cast their veils over their bosoms, and not reveal their adornment save:

1.To their husbands,

2.Or their fathers, or their husbands' fathers, or their sons, or their husbands' sons, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons,

3.Or their sisters' sons, or their women, or what their right hands own,

4.Or such MEN as attend them, NOT HAVING SEXUAL DESIRE(Note:because they are EUNUCHS or TOO OLD,IMPOTENT)

5.Or children who have not yet attained knowledge of women's private parts"

@Minoria, I don't know what disturbs me more...that a vagina is called an 'adornment' or that you had to be told it was okay to show your adornment to your father, or father in law or children who don't know what a woman's private part is. I mean...he's all but saying it's okay to take a hustler magazine to a day care!! Or old folk's home. Ugh. Islam is so gross!

Abd عبد slave/ Abeed عبيد is a common usage in Arab countries until now when referring to black man ...

Nowadays mostly used nonchalantly and it is not meant to degrade a person ...

But what it shows that Arabic societies always used it to call blacks as slave as they enslave them, as time went on and they disappeared from certain societies but the vocabulary did not disappear ...

Kim said, "Lets also not forget tge Prophet Abraham (pbuh). He had a wife and a concubine.

Hence we have Ishmael and Isaac. Jewish and Arab races of course :).

Its in your own Bible. So critisizing Islam will show your hypocritical nature on this issue.'

No it doesn't. It shows the weakness of your own argument.The problem wasn't that there were servants, it was enslaving people of a different race than yours on the basis that they're inferior.

Hagar was not seen as inferior because of her race. Being Abrahams' concubine actually meant she got a step up in status though not as a wife and if you bothered to read the bible, (you know...that book you critize and say is corrupt) you'd see Hagar got really full of herself because she could conceive naturally and Sarah at the time could not.

But the point of this video, which you always seem to miss, is they enslaved them because they were seen as inferior. They castrated them too. Maybe I missed it, but I don't think Abraham ever required his servants to be anything more than circumsized which is NOT castration.

Kim, I did. If the verbage is referring to something else, it's hard to tell from your 'perfectly clear' verse because it says 'private parts'.

"And say to the believing women, that they cast down their eyes' and guard their private parts, and reveal not their adornment save such as is outward; and let them cast their veils over their bosoms, and not reveal their adornment save:

1.To their husbands,

2.Or their fathers, or their husbands' fathers, or their sons, or their husbands' sons, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons,

3.Or their sisters' sons, or their women, or what their right hands own,

4.Or such MEN as attend them, NOT HAVING SEXUAL DESIRE(Note:because they are EUNUCHS or TOO OLD,IMPOTENT)

5.Or children who have not yet attained knowledge of women's private parts"

That is what it's saying so either I'm not reading the verse or your not reading the verse.

Adornment is being used for something outward in one sentance but it's usage in the next is saying something else as in adornment is a body part.

I wasn't referring to the video whatsoever. I was referring to the previous comments by minoria and the Purple Marquise.

I recently realized that Abraham in the Bible took Hagar as a concubine, along with a wife, Sarah. Yet it's interesting to see Christians criticizing this Islamic concept of it when their own Prophets of God did it.

"Being Abrahams' concubine actually meant she got a step up in status though not as a wife and if you bothered to read the bible,"

Same with the Prophet Muhammad.Also, the Prophet explicitly stated that racism or tribalism has no place in Islam.

And again, castration has no place in Islam. It's a gross sin to mutilate one's body or someone else's body.

Morals can be subjective from society to society. This is why historical context takes an important role. Comparing 21st century standards to 7th century standards without historical contexts is going to be misleading no doubt.

Perhaps we should take a look at other Biblical prophets' behaviors as well.

Kim said, 'Morals can be subjective from society to society. This is why historical context takes an important role. Comparing 21st century standards to 7th century standards without historical contexts is going to be misleading no doubt.'

And this is your way to excuse Mohammed's behavior? Let's compare Mohammed to Jesus, would you like to make that comparision? Or maybe sort through the hadiths, would you like to do that to because i don't see any instance of a man or woman in mo's entourage who was married to a child before he flew mecca to medina. But we see him doing just that when he came back, don't we? We also see Abu Bakr balk at the idea of giving his six year old daughter up to Mohammed. Jesus rebuked his followers who wanted to use violence. Allah came up with surah 8:12. 9:5. 9:29 and 5:51.

Funny, you want to play the 'historical context card' when you need to defend islam (really, if I were you I'd be exhausted by now) but when you attack the bible you throw all context out the window.

Let's compare Jesus versus mohammed Kim. Someone's prophet will come up short and it won't be mine.

Hi,@ KimYou're right. As a Christian, I do find Abraham taking more than one wife as disturbing.

Yet, Christians do not follow such practice anymore. Since when? Since the New Covenant was established through Jesus, by Jesus.

And then what happened? Your prophet introduced the practice once more. And this time with an added twist, which is one can have as many concubine (or slave) as his right hand possess.

And since you talked about comparing standard, why not compare the standard that Jesus gave to us with Muhammad's.

And it seems you're trying use the "Tu quoque" fallacy when you suggested that "Perhaps we should take a look at other Biblical prophets' behaviors as well." On second thought, actually you've already did.

Abraham sinned. All men and women sin. The Prophets were not Gods. To say a man is sinless is to say that he is God. Kim is deflecting and imposing the teachings of Islam on our true Biblical Prophets! she thinks that all Prophets were sinless. But we learn from their frailties, mistakes and flaws!

The important thing to see in this event is that God does not need perfect men to use for his purposes. Abraham was a mortal man just like us. He had his weaknesses and sometimes failed to do the right thing (Rom. 3:23). In spite of his weakness and sin, God still used him and he can use us as well. You will note that God makes a point to tell us of the shortcomings of all the great Bible heroes. Only Jesus was without sin.

" Lets also not forget tge Prophet Abraham (pbuh). He had a wife and a concubine."

So, you are admitting that we are correct since you are now trying to show a tu quoque argument that we are no better than you if you want to criticize us. Now both of us are on the same level. Right?

" Hence we have Ishmael and Isaac. Jewish and Arab races of course :)."

Arabs existed before the birth of either Abraham or Ishmael. Furthermore, Hagar (Ishmael's mother) was Egyptian. That means that he was not Arab since his mom was Egyptian and his father was Hebrew. Also the book of Genesis records Hagar going to Egypt to get a wife for Ishmael. That means that his offspring would have to be Egyptian. The Bible also records Ishmael as living in the wilderness of Canaan not far from Egypt but north of Arabia. It would be considered the lower part of present day Israel. Perhaps in a few generations, some of his offspring migrated to Arabia and assimilated with some of the Arabs.

" Its in your own Bible. So critisizing Islam will show your hypocritical nature on this issue."

Basically, you are creating another fallacy. The fallacy is that if one person is guilty or is thought to be guilty on an issue, he or she can't correct or criticize the other person who likewise is said to have that same issue. It is akin to the pot vs. kettle accusation.

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Kim said...

" minoria,

that is a very very weak argument."

If that is the case, your argument or reply isn't nearly as good. In that case, you should quit while you are already far behind.

It brought absolute justice to this world. It brought comfort, mercy, and beautiful guidance to those sincere in their belief in God. It brought us a complete system of guidance to the smallest detail on how we should live and interact with others. The Quran brought about a revolution of goodness that shaped society for the best and continues to shape our lives to be the best moral example for humanity. Islam has shown us miracles namely in the Quran as well as in the Hadith. We never doubt our religion, or holy scripture because of its outstanding evidence.

The Quran is the path to salvation through faith and hood deeds. Without it, corruption prevails and the world is in complete darkness. The Quran changed the entire Arab peninsula and countries from the Far East to the Far West in very little time. It has brought the strongest unity of the most moral examples the world has ever seen which started by 1 illiterate man in a barbaric culture. The Quran destroyed and exposed all kinds of polytheism yet eloquently stressed the importance of 1 God and no associates/partners.

Prophet Solomon in the Bible had extremely young virgin girls comfort him in his room one day. I guess he's false as well, right?

The OT is filled with stories you probably have never read that "Prophets" did. Raping women, muderinh enture tribes etc...

Point your fingers at your Bible first before you start making excuses over something like the slave woman of the Prophet, or Aisha, or the destruction of tribes that committed treason in wartime ( even though these issues arent really issues at all).

If youre going to compare the actions of some Muslims and Christians back then til now, Christians have done far worse no doubt. Compare religious teachings and Islam is far superior in every aspect of life.

All you do is spew nonsense propaganda. No9thing you ever say is based in fact!

You want to compare? Let's do it!

The depths of your denial know no end! It is fascinating how your mind works! You are in complete suspension of reality!

Luke 6: 27 “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you. 32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

And you have already ignored and run from the sunna of your child molesting, rapist, serial killer false Prophet when I posted his sunna about slavery! Now begin your logical fallacies, lies, misrepresentations, and propaganda!

Now we can find justification for these atrocity in the sunna and teachings of your Evil Allah. But you will never find it in the teachings or actions of Jesus Christ!

80 million strong Genocide by your Ummah!

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."

Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah

Tabari IX:69 "Killing disbelievers is a small matter to us."

In his book "Negation in India" Famous Belgian historian Koenraad Elst wrote:

The Blitzkrieg of the Muslim armies in the first decades after the birth of their religion had such enduring results precisely because the Pagan populations in West- and Central-Asia had no choice (except death) but to convert. Whatever the converts' own resentment, their children grew up as Muslims and gradually identified with this religion. Within a few generations the initial resistance against these forcible converions was forgotten, and these areas became heidenfrei (free from Pagans, cfr. judenfrei).

The Muslim conquests, down to the 16th century, were for the Hindus a pure struggle of life and death. Entire cities were burnt down and the populations massacred, with hundreds of thousands killed in every campaign, and similar numbers deported as slaves. Every new invader made (often literally) his hills of Hindus skulls. Thus, the conquest of Afghanistan in the year 1000 was followed by the annihilation of the Hindu population; the region is still called the Hindu Kush, i.e. Hindu slaughter. The Bahmani sultans (1347-1480) in central India made it a rule to kill 100,000 captives in a single day, and many more on other occasions. The conquest of the Vijayanagar empire in 1564 left the capital plus large areas of Karnataka depopulated. And so on.

According to some calculations, the Indian (subcontinent) population decreased by 80 million between 1000 (conquest of Afghanistan) and 1525 (end of Delhi Sultanate).

Encyclopedia of Wars by Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod documents 1763 wars, of which 123 have been classified to involve a religious conflict. It is interesting to note that 66 of these wars (more than 50%) involved Islam, which did not even exist as a religion for the first 3,000 years of recorded human warfare.

634-644 The Caliphate of Umar ibn al-Khattab, who is regarded as particularly brutal.

656 Caliph Uthman is assassinated by disgruntled Muslim soldiers; Ali ibn Abi Talib, son-in-law and cousin to Muhammad, who married the prophet’s daughter Fatima through his first wife Khadija, is set up as Caliph.

656 Battle of the Camel, in which Aisha, Muhammad’s wife, leads a rebellion against Ali for not avenging Uthman’s assassination. Ali’s partisans win.

657 Battle of Siffin between Ali and Muslim governor of Jerusalem, arbitration goes against Ali

661 Murder of Ali by an extremist; Ali’s supporters acclaim his son Hasan as next Caliph, but he comes to an agreement with Muawiyyah I and retires to Medina.

661-680 the Caliphate of Muawiyyah I. He founds Umayyid dynasty and moves capital from Medina to Damascus

673-678 Arabs besiege Constantinople, capital of Byzantine Empire

680 Massacre of Hussein (Muhammad’s grandson), his family, and his supporters in Karbala, Iraq.

691 Dome of the Rock is completed in Jerusalem, only six decades after Muhammad’s death.

705 Abd al-Malik restores Umayyad rule.

710-713 Muslim Crusaders conquer the lower Indus Valley.

711-713 Muslim Crusaders conquer Spain and impose the kingdom of Andalus. This article recounts how Muslims today still grieve over their expulsion 700 years later. They seem to believe that the land belonged to them in the first place.

1050 Creation of Almoravid (Muslim Crusaders) movement in Mauretania; Almoravids (also known as Murabitun) are coalition of western Saharan Berbers; followers of Islam, focusing on the Quran, the hadith, and Maliki law.

So the Crusades did not begin until after about 450 years of Islamic invasions of Christian nations were they raped, pillaged, enslaved and slaughtered! Now for the lies and propaganda that you have been indoctrinated with!

@Kim, Oh p-l-e-a-s-e Kim, PLEASE list how I've photoshopped Jesus in a book you've NEVER READ.

I dare you. You're a little punk muslim who is all flap and yap and nothing of substance. Your prophet did horrible things but instead of being a REAL woman and owning up to the fact that you follow a spiritually unstable, demon possessed, homosexual tendancied pedophile you attack Jesus. The SAME Jesus you have to met at Judgment day. And unlike your claim that I 'photoshopped' Jesus (ironically you call it that after a post) I CAN BACK UP EVERYTHING I SAID ABOUT MOHAMMED.Bring IT kim. I dare you.

Kim said: 'Prophet Solomon in the Bible had extremely young virgin girls comfort him in his room one day. I guess he's false as well, right?'

How old were they Kim? Also for pointing your finger at the bible you don't seem to read to well, do you. The lord showed up twice to him in a vision and told him to STOP taking so many wives. He didn't. That's why israel was split in half and half-instead of all-was ruled over by his heir-apparant.

How about you actually READ THE WHOLE STORY KIM?????And as for you 'beautful perfect book' how come a 'clear' book needs tasfirs and hadiths to make out what allah is saying. Girl...Allah was Mohammed's sock puppet. Get it through your head.

If youre going to compare the actions of some Muslims and Christians back then til now, Christians have done far worse no doubt."

Of course, we couldn't get very far before another fallacy was unveiled. The subject is Islam. No matter how bad, in your opinion, Christianity has been, Islam is not ridden of its bad deeds in the process. Islam has to stand by itself in one's evaluation and judgment of it. It can't piggyback the Bible when it is convenient to Muslims and then discard it when it isn't advantageous. That is yet another fallacy to deal with.

"Compare religious teachings and Islam is far superior in every aspect of life."

Sure it is only if you exclude such things as: 1) love thy neighbor as thyself; 2) love thine enemies; and 3) pray for those who persecute you. Where in Islam do we see Mohammad teaching these principles? Where is the love of God for everyone?

I think he's talking about your COMPLETE lack of honesty and hypocracy. I think he's pointing out how you took a passage out of context from the bible and conflated history for promotion. How you took Solomon's wives (when God in the same bible told him not to do it) and claimed that somehow the bible promotes polygamy. I think he's talking about your blatent Tu Quo Que, which he rightly points out that plane won't fly.

A normal person would have apollogized for this mistake about Solomon, and the logical falacies. Instead you take the further dishonest route, of the tactic (recently used by your co-religionist Zakir Naik in fact) of pretending the other person is angry and telling the person to "calm down" as an excuse to not answer the dishonest arguments.

I guess I'd be hoping too much for you to see how your attitude and arguments are both poor, and hope you will change. I hope your concious will someday prick you, and you repent.

@everyoneLets put the biggest fail explanation of the Islam. If one was to put it up to historical scrutiny. Assuming jesus didn;t die on the cross, then why was there a empty tomb? If judas like most muslims say took jesus place why was his body not in the tomb?

so... according to you before islam in teh Worlde there was not [in black evidence that all that existed before islam]:

a) absolutte justice [Deuteronomy 32:4];b) comfort [Mathew 11, 28-30];c) mercy [Psalms 103:17];d) beautiful guidance to those sincere in their belief in God [Isaiah 52:7];e) a complete system of guidance to the smallest detail on how we should live and interact with others [Romans 13:10];f) a revolution of goodness that shaped society for the best and continues to shape our lives to be the best moral example for humanity [John 15:9 ];g) miracles [John 6:14];h) a path to salvation through faith and hood deeds [Galatians 5:6 ];i) the strongest unity of the most moral examples the world has ever seen [John 17:23 and John 15:12];j) the destruction and exposion off all kinds of polytheism yet eloquently stressed the importance of 1 God and no associates/partners [Mark 12:29-30]...

Kim, you talk about prophets doing horrible things. In my bible I also read about prophets being punished for those horrible things they did. God gave those examples to show that we need Another, because we in ourselves are unable to do good at all. For God says in the Bible: For [there is] not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not. So even our best works contain sin. And there is only one Solution: Jesus Christ, Who became man and died on the cross, because man wanted to become God, a deed that righteously should be punished with death.

Please explain me how a man/woman that sinned against God, God Who is the Righteous Himself (endlessly righteous, because He is God), can pay for his sins by doing some good works while he does sin in his mind continually.Even if you would sin at all you can't make it up, for even one sin makes you deserve an eteral punishment. And Kim, when you are honest you know this, because your conscience tells you this.

The doctrine of "Afdaliyyah" Islam's supreme Arab Race----------------------------Allah ordered the following "Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." (2:30)

Ibn Kathir said regrading this verse....

"The Khalifah must be a responsible adult Muslim male, able to perform Ijtihad (independent legal judgments), physically able, righteous, with knowledge of warfare and politics. He also must be from the tribe of Quraysh,...."

If you notice The original purpose of creating Adam to be Allah's Khalifah is being directly connected to the Islamic state. In plain English the Ruler of the Islamic state is also the rightful ruler of the world and He must be a Arab from the tribe of Quraysh

Again this is not my interpretation look at the word of the following Alim who use to be one of the biggest Shaykhs in Arabia when he was alive " Sheikh Muhammed Al-Ameen Ash-Shanqeeti states: "It is obvious and clear that it is an Islamic necessity on Muslims to nominate a Caliph and give him Bay'ah so that they become one strong unit and implement Allah's laws on this earth".

It was also said " Sheikhul-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah said in his book titled "Al-Siyaasah Al-Shar 'iyyah" under the heading "The Obligation of Having Leadership": "It is obligatory to know that leadership of the people is one of the greatest obligations of this deen…"

Here is the proof that only a Arab Qurayshi can be the leader of the Islamic state and by extension the world.

The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "There shall be twelve Caliphs for this community, all of them from Quraish." Reference: Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v5, p106

Narrated Jabir Ibn Samura:

“The affairs of the people will continue to be conducted as long as they are governed by twelve men, he then added from Quraish”Sahih Muslim, Hadith number 4478 English translation by Abdul Hamid Siddiqui

“I heard the Apostle of Allah say ‘Islam shall not cease to be glorious up to twelve Caliphs, every one of them being from the Quraish”. (And in a narration) “The affairs of men will not cease to decline so long as twelve men will rule over them, every one of them coming from Quraish. And in a narration: The religion will continue to be established till the hour comes as there are twelve Caliphs over them, everyone of them coming from the Quraish”Mishkat al Masabih Vol 4 p 576, Hadith 5

And majority of the scholars believe that the arab race is better than the others, likewise race of Quraish is better than others. And race of Banu Hashim is better than others."

Muslim Imam Abu Usamaah AthThahabi is recorded as saying from the minbar in a sermon on this topic " ARABS are BETTER than Non-Arabs" the link is here http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1975342/posts

was that a joke? "Ilm" in Islam is seating around all day memorizing what Muhammad a literate desert nomad said 1400 years ago, since the doors of ijtihad have been closed for over 1000 years nobody is allowed to independently conduct any inductive study of the Quran and Sunnah, not even your "scholars" who are only allowed to regurgitate fiqh rulings from the madhabs, anyone who dares to critically think for themselves in the "ummah" is labeled a "innovator" "zalimoon" or worst you can be have takfir made upon you and get your punished by the shariah courts...but when you live in a majority western christian nation like most of the Muslim who post here, I guess you can yell about how get shariah is while refusing to live under it.

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