Sunday Downtime - All Evolve Media Sites are being migrated to a new data center Sunday Dec 11, 2016. The migration will occur during an 8 AM to 2 PM (Pacific Time) maintenance window. We will have up to 1 hour of downtime for any of our sites.

Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must use the RUMOR prefix in thread title. Proposals must contain the PROPOSAL prefix in the thread title.

Comparing apples to oranges. Arguably the biggest reason Jordan left Pittsburgh was because he was stuck behind Crosby and Malkin. Even if he loved Pittsburgh, it was best for his career to move on. Marc is the Rangers' #1 defenseman. He's not being limited by anybody.

Quote:

On wanting to be "The Guy":

"(Laughs) I don't know if I ever am. Even here, Eric has been on a tear to start the season. I don't think I've ever used those words, ‘The Guy.' Being counted on by your team is nice. Being out there in any situation when the team needs you is important. I guess that's what being ‘The Guy' means to me - being in those spots. Any player wants that."

And;

Quote:

Jordan Staal was going to stay.

Last June 21, the day before his wedding, he had every intention of signing a contract extension that could have kept him with the Penguins for the next 11 seasons.

It was all there: guaranteed money (about $57 million total), long-term security (a 10-year term), an understanding that his role would continue to expand beyond that of a traditional No. 3 center.

Only one person could have kept Staal from making that commitment to the franchise that made him the second overall pick in 2006.

That person was his oldest brother and best friend, Eric, who plainly offered that if Jordan Staal accepted this offer there was no chance they could ever play together.

You must remember, Jordan was playing over 20 minutes a game in Pittsburgh, a regular contender. He's not played any more in Carolina, and oftentimes not played with better linemates. He didn't get a substantially better contract, and he didn't get a better team. His career was not being blocked in Pittsburgh, but rather killing off the possibility of being a team mate of Eric was the fulcrum on which his decision weighted towards not signing.

Threads about certain players are more popular than threads about others. It doesn't matter. If you guys don't like it, ignore it. Don't spam the thread with things that add nothing to it in the least.

Too much risk that Tlusty is flash in the pan. If you trade a defender like Staal, you need at least one known quantity back in the deal. McBain has yet to realize his potential and Tlusty has one good season under his belt. I can understand some concern over the eye injury, but we can't swing and miss on the return for him.

If Staal is traded at the draft, I think the package has to include the #5 pick. McBain or Tlusty would be an additional piece, but the Rangers need that shot at getting a legitimate impact player at #5.

Rangers get pick, potential on Faulk replacement, and swap two vet salaries they would eventually have to unload for Skinner, who had an off year, but while not sniper, has scoring knack history; and while a short term option at C, might fit as a scoring W if guys like Lindberg/Haley step up.

Rangers D would lose an extra D including a righty, but it is an investment
immediate 6
McDonagh Faulk
Del Zotto Stralman
Moore McIlrath

Alternatively, Skinner with his demonstrated scoring is desired kind of piece one can unload, presumably for an upgrade rather than lateral with picks for cap mgmt. For example, maybe
Hagelin + Skinner + X
for
E Kane + Postma + Y

Rangers get pick, potential on Faulk replacement, and swap two vet salaries they would eventually have to unload for Skinner, who had an off year, but while not sniper, has scoring knack history; and while a short term option at C, might fit as a scoring W if guys like Lindberg/Haley step up.

Rangers D would lose an extra D including a righty, but it is an investment
immediate 6
McDonagh Faulk
Del Zotto Stralman
Moore McIlrath

Alternatively, Skinner with his demonstrated scoring is desired kind of piece one can unload, presumably for an upgrade rather than lateral with picks for cap mgmt. For example, maybe
Hagelin + Skinner + X
for
E Kane + Postma + Y

No way teh Rangers consider dealing BOTH Girardi and Staal in the same trade.

You can hypothesize all you want, it will never happen.

Additionally, the Canes are not trading both Faulk and Skinner in the same deal as well.

And it's going to take a sweet-heart of a deal for the Canes to move that 5th overall selection as well.

I would be very hesitant to move that pick for an oft injured Staal regardless of the bloodlines.

Hockey decisions need to be made here and when healthy, Staal is a great player to have....when healthy.

If I am Carolina, I'm offering no more than Murphy and the 1st.

Keeping the roster guys and adding Staal (who would be more than likely to sign an extension with the Canes) would be a quicker way to getting back to the PO's especially considering the divisional set up starting next season.

Carolina improves their current roster, Rangers get weaker short term while re-couping the 1st lost in the Nash trade, and improve an organizational weakness behind McIlrath and Skjei.

What is the deal with Murphy? I have not heard a ton about him since he was drafted. Undersized, offensive d?

--He plays in Carolina's system.
--He had a poor WJC (though based on the two games I saw, it was blown out of proportion).
--He's an undersized, offensive defensemen who was drafted outside the top 10 (like how I haven't heard anything of McIlrath, for example [top 10 remark, not undersized offensive defensman]).
--In almost every Ryan Murphy thread, a strong willed Kitchener fan (who will remain nameless) argues anyone who does not agree that Ryan Murphy is criminally underrated into submission through the glorious tradition of our message board- by responding until the other poster is sick of it.

He played on Carolina this year, and didn't look that terrible as one might expect from an undersized OHL offensive defenseman. Didn't remind me of Bergeron at all (and believe you me, Bergeron has no idea what the **** he is doing compared to Murphy's 8 or so games). He'll be in the NHL next year, moreso because our defense blows than whether he is ready or not.

__________________"You sensed that you should be following a different path, a more ambitious one, you felt that you were destined for other things but you had no idea how to achieve them and in your misery you began to hate everything around you."

--He plays in Carolina's system.
--He had a poor WJC (though based on the two games I saw, it was blown out of proportion).
--He's an undersized, offensive defensemen who was drafted outside the top 10 (like how I haven't heard anything of McIlrath, for example [top 10 remark, not undersized offensive defensman]).
--In almost every Ryan Murphy thread, a strong willed Kitchener fan (who will remain nameless) argues anyone who does not agree that Ryan Murphy is criminally underrated into submission through the glorious tradition of our message board- by responding until the other poster is sick of it.

He played on Carolina this year, and didn't look that terrible as one might expect from an undersized OHL offensive defenseman. Didn't remind me of Bergeron at all (and believe you me, Bergeron has no idea what the **** he is doing compared to Murphy's 8 or so games). He'll be in the NHL next year, moreso because our defense blows than whether he is ready or not.

No way teh Rangers consider dealing BOTH Girardi and Staal in the same trade.
You can hypothesize all you want, it will never happen

.

It's not a ?of what actually gets done, IMO it's a ? of what should be done based on a reasonable projection of cost/benefit.

BOTH Girardi and Staal = high cost
but
return = high benefit

Quote:

Additionally, the Canes are not trading both Faulk and Skinner in the same deal as well.

And it's going to take a sweet-heart of a deal for the Canes to move that 5th overall selection as well.

Flip side of same perspective

Quote:

I would be very hesitant to move that pick for an oft injured Staal regardless of the bloodlines

.
Not really that injured for totality of career.
A guy who gets a lot of hammies, that's someone who has repeat problems.
Puck to the face/eye could happen to anybody.

Quote:

Hockey decisions need to be made here and when healthy, Staal is a great player to have....when healthy.
If I am Carolina, I'm offering no more than Murphy and the 1st.

Fair enough. Remember, if Staal is on the block, Canes need to make highest bid.

Quote:

Keeping the roster guys and adding Staal (who would be more than likely to sign an extension with the Canes) would be a quicker way to getting back to the PO's especially considering the divisional set up starting next season.

Thus an inducement to accept our package deal.

Quote:

Carolina improves their current roster, Rangers get weaker short term while re-couping the 1st lost in the Nash trade, and improve an organizational weakness behind McIlrath and Skjei.

Okay. Same as in my scenario.

Quote:

but trading both Staal and Girardi would ensure a last place finish.

Not necessarily so.

What if instead of reaching out to upgrade a W (as illustrated)
what if the acquired Skinner was added to (Skjei +) and flipped for Hedman?

We need to keep focus on most total/highest quality assets.
Different props have different + and - in search for that.

Okay so 5th + Tlusty/Faulk/Mcbain + Di Giuseppe/Karlsson/Rask/Welsh/Biega/picks (& it all depends on the right package).

Well Faulk won't happen, I'm aware of that, but if it did 5th and him would suffice. Mcbain or Tlusty and then Murphy or Rask.
5th + Tlusty + Murphy would be fantastic, and personally I wouldn't mind adding a + (pick, prospect, ect) to make that happen

Right now, it's for overpayment. Jordan Staal Model. #5+roster+prospect. Marc has 2 years left on his deal. Canes need defensive help.

Outside of the name Staal that point of reference has no bearing on this situation. Agreed that an overpayment would be needed but not to that extent. JStaal was considered by many in the league as an elite shutdown C, which he's not. MStaal is considered an elite D by some Rangers fans, which he's not.

Don't get me wrong MStaal would be a very good addition but that kind of package can be used for better purposes. No thanks.

Outside of the name Staal that point of reference has no bearing on this situation. Agreed that an overpayment would be needed but not to that extent. JStaal was considered by many in the league as an elite shutdown C, which he's not. MStaal is considered an elite D by some Rangers fans, which he's not.

Don't get me wrong MStaal would be a very good addition but that kind of package can be used for better purposes. No thanks.

You don't watch Marc play very often, and it is rather obvious.

Marc Staal is one of the best shut-down defensemen in the game right now. Rather easily as well.

Outside of the name Staal that point of reference has no bearing on this situation. Agreed that an overpayment would be needed but not to that extent. JStaal was considered by many in the league as an elite shutdown C, which he's not. MStaal is considered an elite D by some Rangers fans, which he's not.

Don't get me wrong MStaal would be a very good addition but that kind of package can be used for better purposes. No thanks.

Staal is worth as much off the ice to the canes as he is one the ice. Overpayment, to that extent. Or wait, which is also an option. That defense you have should look great when you guys join the atlantic next year...

Marc Staal is one of the best shut-down defensemen in the game right now. Rather easily as well.

Murphy + 5th overall + prospect makes sense.

Gotta love that homer logic.

Actually, I've seen quite a bit of him but believe what you like. So it would seem that you're taking exception with my opinion that he isn't elite. Is that it? He's a very good shutdown D but in my opinion not a D at the elite level. Then again my opinion is not clouded by being a fan of the team on which he plays.

In no way is MStaal worth essentially 2 top 12 draft picks plus a prospect. Not to Carolina anyway. He'd have to be the guy and will not play with anyone close to caliber of his McDonagh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Championship

Staal is worth as much off the ice to the canes as he is one the ice. Overpayment, to that extent. Or wait, which is also an option.

Not really. The JStaal effect in Raleigh. Not exactly earth-shattering. I'd wait to be honest.

JR is pretty boneheaded, so I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to overpay to acquire Marc, similar to the Jordan deal. But I also think JR had his hand forced a bit after last season because Ward and Staal made it pretty clear to management that they weren't happy with the teams he was icing and wanted to an see an effort to acquire better players in the off-season and not scrape the bottom of the FA market or else they would be leaving. Eric and Ward seem to be appeased with the Jordan and Semin signings, so I think JR will be patient and wait for Marc to reach FA (if he does).

I think our defense will be mediocre enough for the payoffs if we just add a few more defensively minded d-man. They don't have to be "elite level" like Marc. If we just replace a two of McBain/Corvo/Sanguinetti with more physical / stay at home types, even at the same skill level our D group as a whole will be much improved. In addition, we can't really afford to trade young A-level prospects and picks for players that are going to be getting their payday in a short time. We need some of those talented entry level contract players on our team.

Actually, I've seen quite a bit of him but believe what you like. So it would seem that you're taking exception with my opinion that he isn't elite. Is that it? He's a very good shutdown D but in my opinion not a D at the elite level. Then again my opinion is not clouded by being a fan of the team on which he plays.

In no way is MStaal worth essentially 2 top 12 draft picks plus a prospect. Not to Carolina anyway. He'd have to be the guy and will not play with anyone close to caliber of his McDonagh.

What? He was "the guy" in NY long before McDonagh even touched NHL ice, and since McDonagh arrived, he's been paired with guys like Stralman, Eminger, Bickel and Del Zotto and has managed to still be stellar defensively.

Then again, that's probably just me being a homer and refusing to admit he was carried by Rozsival until McDonagh arrived on his white horse and saved the day.