“He borders on genius. And yet, he’s so idiotic, its ridiculous”

Jan. 14 – For this installment of the Audio Archives series, we travel back to Friday, October 3, 1969 and listen to an interview with Paul Crockett that laid the groundwork for the two Barker Ranch raids.

The original analog reel-to-reel recording speeds up and down. We have attempted to correct this, but due to its gradual effect, the end result is still far from perfect.

PAUL CROCKETT: My home for the last 25 years has been Carlsbad, New Mexico. Then with some business associates that I ran that – with, were interested in mining properties, so I was there lead man out in front of the field. And I had made contacts in Wickenburg, Arizona, with a man that knew this area and told me the potential of it. And so after dealing with him for several months, I found he was just leading me on, oh, a merry chase to see how much money he could bleed out of me. And, the one place that I really believed that he had, that was worth investigating, was in Golar Canyon. And since I have found that possibly he was right but it still needs more work done to prove it, to a, financial business asset.

So, in the first week of March, of this year, 1969, I came to Golar Canyon and came to the Barker Ranch with the other man that was with me by the name of Bob Berry. Now he had been in here, in this canyon, in December of 1968 and he saw all of these girls. And uh, being the type that he was, well he wanted to come back, because he figured he could come back and have himself a little pleasure at their expense. And so I know at this time that was his real motive for coming back. But my motive for coming here, was, to see if I couldn’t make this a profitable business adventure.

So, on the night that I arrived, I met Brooks Poston and Juanita Wildbush, or Joan Wildbush. And uh, they were living in the big house on the ranch. And we talked to them for awhile and uh, then uh Bob, said he would go – and we would go and stay in the cabin that was just, to the left of the house, as you face the ranch. In the days that followed, I became, um, more acquainted with these people. And everyday this Bob Berry and myself would go walking across the hills, and we would go and inspect, old mine sites, old diggings. We would bring uh, samples of ore down, we would – crush these samples of ore and pan them and check them out for their contents of this yellow metal we were looking for called gold.

And in the meantime, Bob’s attentions were becoming more directed at this Juanita Wa – Wildbush. But at first, he thought she was the most stupid woman that he had ever met in his life and that she was completely ignorant, that she didn’t have any sense whatsoever. In a sense, he had developed what might be call a hate for her. And uh, being that I had been watching human nature for years, I figured this was one way he had been tying himself up. That he didn’t even realize he was doing. But I figured, if that’s what he wanted to do, that was his business.

So I would go, with him, over the mountains. And the first three weeks we were there, I would surmise, that we walked, approximately, 250 or 300 miles, over the hills of Golar Canyon, back down to Wingate Wash, over into Panamint Range. Back down the other side – on the other side, to what is called the January Jones mines – which is, a very difficult place to go. We went to a place called the Crescent Mine, the Panamint Queen. I did – had gone through all of the workings, of all the hills around there. And it’s impressive to see the amount of work that has been done, in this area.

As the time went on, we began to filter out the places that seemed, possible good prospects, and those that weren’t. And we finally settled down to some places, that uh, looked like were pretty good. So we went to work carrying ore down the mountains, to run sample tests and all of this. And some of it looked good, some of it didn’t look, too good. And we kept working and working and working. In the meantime, when we would come in the evenings, Brooks and Juanita – we would sit in the evenings and talk. And we began to learn and hear about Charlie. And uh, I couldn’t believe what they were saying. I mean it was uh, so, utterly ridiculous – that uh, I thought they were just talking. I thought they were nuts. That uh, no man could possibly be doing the things that he was talking about. And so uh, I paid very little of a – attention to it. So, they seemed so afraid of this Charlie that – I even implanted them with the idea that I had the power to keep Charlie from coming back up there. And so, they accepted this idea. And so, poor ol’ Charlie later on, in his ventures, tried to come back – everytime he tried to come up there – so he told me, later. That uh, he would try to come, and the truck would blow up and wouldn’t go. Or the Police would stop him and arrest him. And, uh, it was all my fault. That I was some kind, of a big deity, sitting up on the hill, that was trying to keep him from doing what he had to do for all the people of the world. And that I was in his way.

And uh, we had one boy, named, Paul Watkins – that had come to town a couple of times – that he had told Charlie this. And so Charlie didn’t know who I was, but he had heard of me. And so I was already a threat to him. And so this is one of the reasons he wanted to kill me, because I was in his way.

And uh, in the meantime, as we went along, I got Brooks to go work with me. To get him out of the letharacy state – as I call it – that he was in. To get him to climb mountains, to do things, to build his physical body back up, to where, he could be a man again. And then, one of the other boys came – this Paul Watkins came. And he decided to quit Charlie and come and go with me too. Because, it was, I made more sense to them, then he did. And I could explain to them, what Charlie was doing. That it was ridiculous, it was idiotic, that it had, no value what-so-ever to them.

And so by this time, I had already stolen Charlie’s, top man – or one of his men. That he considered on of his good men, because he was able to participate better than anyone else in a sex act. And so, he didn’t like this at all. I had stolen this Paul Watkins – because was supposed to be a good fucker, as the word was put around.

I had stolen Brooks Poston. And then later on, another one of the guys he had been trying to capture, came up and he wanted to know if he could stay with me too. Because he didn’t have anyplace to go because by this time they had busted Spahn’s Ranch. And so, by this time I had stolen from him – in his mind – three of his men. And so he was very angry with me. He had never seen me. He didn’t know who I was. But I must be some kind of big medicine because, people were leaving him, to go with me – more-or-less to speak.

And so I was using these men to pack ore off the mountain. And the guy who was bringing me supplies, was bring extra supplies so I could feed them.

And so his first idea when he came to the top of, what is called Golar Wash, or to the Barker Ranch. His – He told me that – a few days later, that uh, “did you know that I had planned to kill you?” And I said, “Yes, I knew that you had planned to kill me, because of the way you acted.” And then a couple days later, a couple of the girls came up to me and told me, “Did you know that Charlie was, going to kill you?” And I said, “Well, he told me he planned to do so.”

And so, by this time I had figured that, I had best make myself valuable to this man, or he would kill me. So he wanted to know, how it was that I got Brooks, and Paul, and Juan, to quit him and to go with me. Because he knew he had the power to get people to do anything he wanted to once he got them – what he was more interested in was. How did I get – undo what he had already done to them?

So this Charlie – we are referring to this Juan – Juan Flynn, who worked at Spahn’s Ranch. And who also worked with movie producers, in producing many movies. Not many, but worked on a couple. And he had just come back from, Montana, Las Vegas, and some other places where they had filmed, a first rate movie with first rate – first rate actors, which I’m not as – oh, I don’t know who they are just at the moment. But I can find the names for you, if it’s necessary. And uh, that uh, when he went back to Spahn’s Ranch, after he filmed the movie. He was there, when the police came down, in, their helicopters and uh, the whole works, when they made the big bust there, and confiscated all of Charlie’s, material, as he called it, that was his, that he had worked for two years to put together –

MALE SPEAKER: (inaudible.)

PAUL CROCKETT: This was approximately a month and a half, or two months ago from this date, which is October the 3rd, 1969.

And so, this is what they call the big bust, when they went into Spahn’s Ranch, and took him and all these people to jail. Now Juan was very perturbed, because, he hadn’t done anything. He didn’t know what it was all about. And he was mad at the law for taking him in and putting him to jail, because he hadn’t done anything. And so he came up and uh, at this point, he could’ve very easily been swung to go with, this Charlie. Because uh, now he was mad at the them because they had him in jail with all the rest of those people.

And so I talked to him and uh, I’d like to impress upon your mind, the fact that Charlie had threaten his life – in the presence of me and Brooks both – several times. And that, “If you don’t go with me,” Charlie said, “then I’ll kill you.” And Juan is a veteran of Vietnam – for what he tells me. And that he, saw plenty of killing, and did plenty of killing. And that he is not going to let this Charles run over him. And, I would personally consider, that I had talked him out of killing, Charlie, a couple of times. Because the man is not dangerous, but he was provoked and provoked and provoked and provoked and provoked, until I could hardly blame him if he did. Because this guy would grab him around the neck, by the hair on his head. Stick the point of the knife to his throat, and says, “Do you give up?” And he was trying to impress upon the man that what he should do is, everything Charlie wanted him to do. Anywhere from murder, rape, stealing automobiles, to go and do anything he wanted him to do. And this Juan did not want to do, and was not going to do. And he would tell me in kind of a, symbols, that he would do what he had to do if this guy didn’t leave him alone. But he never came out and openly said that he would kill him. But I know that’s what he meant.

And so if Juan – he will be coming back into Golar Canyon, in, a few days. And he went out to find another place for us to live, where we could work. Until these guys were apprehended by the law, or whatever happened, because it just wasn’t safe up there – because this guy was getting wilder and wilder and wilder.

And so, Juan will be coming up with some papers to where we could go – a place in the high Sierra. This place in the high Sierra was a little town called Olancha. And we were going to there until this whole thing blew over, until Charlie was apprehended. Or whatever was necessary to get him out of where we were working. So that uh, we could uh, go back and continue our work.

And, so, it is of my opinion, that – if you – he will probably be coming in on the Ballarat Road. Or through that area there. So if you could stop this man, and not let him back in there. But – to keep him from going back in there, because I’m of the opinion that Charlie – if he finds anything, a little bit out of line, or anything else, it will wind up being one or the other of them. Because this Juan Flynn is not going to take anymore from him. He’s took about enough.

At this moment, uh, Brooks Poston is going to cite, some of the songs, that we heard and Charlie writes and programs his people with.

BROOKS POSTON: One song is called “You’re Home Is Where You’re Happy” And the verses are, “You’re home is where you’re happy, It’s not where you’re not free.” Uh, “You’re home is where you can be who you are, cause you are just borned to be. So burn all your bridges, leave the past behind. And, burn all your bridges and,” something about the mind there, I’m not sure about that line there.

There’s one called “The Insane Train.” And he says, “I hear the train a-coming, it’s coming around the bend. I ain’t seen no sadness since I don’t remember when. Since I can’t remember when,” and then they sing on and on about “I can’t remember when, my mother told me to shut up and to get up out of here. I can’t remember when they told me to shut the bathroom door, stupid. I can’t remember when, I can’t remember when.” “I can’t remember” is a part of the program he uses – or what he says is a program. That he says unprograms what you’ve already been computed.

One of the songs he has, has a line in it about, “The only thing you know is what they’ve told you, the only thing you know is what they’ve said.” And, “The only thing you know is what they’ve told you, that all that was true and real was dead.” And several other lines that follow that lead you to think that he’s the one – the only one that can show you the way out of all the, games as he calls it.

He has one song he’s written for motorcycle people, that tell them to ride, and hide away on the dessert. “Like the wind you to ride. With his hair long and flowing” and he goes on and on about hiding on the desert. And he wants to get people to hide out there. And he’s tried to get people to promote his records. But so far he’s been unable to produce them and put them on the market.

As far as I know, from what he’s said, he wants to use these dune buggies he has. And at one time I heard that he had a machine gun. And he wanted to use them, in a Rommel, (Erik?) Rommel type venture. And he said, Hilter was a tuned in guy like himself. And that he saw the truth and he leveled the karma of a lot of people. Karma is what he calls, uh, sin or something like that. I guess he equates it with sin.

PAUL CROCKETT: Now I just completed talking to you about uh, this one, Juan Flynn. Now, he’s about six foot five, or six foot six. He’s a tall, blonde headed man. He came from Panama. And uh, he’s got the most beautiful body on him that you’ve ever seen. I mean he’s physically perfect – if you’ve ever seen a physically perfect man, I think you’d agree, at least, he’s a nice looking, man. And he has light hair, and uh, blue eyes. And he’s uh, Castilian spanish. And so, coming in this Ballarat way – if you could keep him out of there, I think it will be well worth your time and ours too.

Now there’s one other man, his name is Paul Watkins. Now, evidently he was going to come back in through the Warm Springs Road. And so, I would appreciate if you could keep him from going in too. Because he doesn’t know that we have left. And neither does Juan Flynn know that we have left. So if you could keep him out of this. I think that, it would be better for all concerned, because they have already expressed their desires and wishes to be completely separate from, Charles Manson, or whatever his name is. Because they have been able to see that he is nuts, he is crazy as a loon. And that, this is my personal opinion, but I think that from all the tapes we are making here, that there should be some substantiation to what we say. And so, at this time I’ll change the subject to another subject, called uh, armament, and his relation to it, and what he has talked about doing. Now whether he has done it or not, I don’t know. But he’s talked about having dune squads – dune buggy squads in the desert to where he could plant dune buggies every ten or fifteen miles over Death Valley. So that when you guys come after him, then all he has to do is walk over a hill or a ridge. Or then three or four miles to another location where he has food stashed out, water stashed out, gasoline stashed out. He has one wing tank off of an airplane, which is a 300 gallon gas tank. He has several 40, 50, and 60 gallon gas tanks, of many different descriptions, placed all over the desert – that have disappeared. I have seen them at the bottom of Golar Wash, but I don’t know where they’re located now. He has talked about seven vehicles that he has, that he’s brought in. And so he’s got them scattered around the desert. A man that’s used to walking in the desert, can walk approximately 20 or 30 miles, in say, a five or ten hour stretch – if he really gets after it. And this man is on LSD, or on any type of dope, could walk about 10 or 15 or 20 miles in less than three or four hours. Pick up a new dune buggy – or where he had one stashed and hide out – and he’s on to the other end of the desert before you even knew he was out of the area.

And so he’s programmed all of his people. To the extent that they’re just like him, he is – put all kinds of things in their head. I didn’t believe it could be done, but he’s done it. And I see it working. You know, I had him around me, for about three weeks. I had never met the man until just about three weeks or three-and-a-half weeks ago. But from what I see, and what I see coming into the desert. I don’t see how in hell he’s getting it. Other than the fact that these people are doing it for him, because he does nothing himself. He doesn’t do anything, they could pin anything on him. So the only way we can stop this man, is to be able to catch him in a vehicle – that he is driving – that is hot. Or do – or catch him in some situation to where he has become deadly, or something like that, because he is a very clever man. And he borders on genius. And yet, he’s so idiotic, its ridiculous. But you can’t, overlook the fact that he is, doing what he’s doing. And he’s doing it. And you guys should know best that he is doing it. Because you trying to put the make on him.

So, all of these things he told me about being in jail, where the black muslims, and this and that and the other. That he has heard through different cells, speaking of having a case of, uh, grenades. Another man talked about having a bazooka with three rounds – that he was going to make his count. Other people were talking about having Browning automatics, about all types of, uh, cellars with uh, cases of uh, ammunition, piles and stores, and stores of all kinds of thing – molotov cocktails. I’ve heard some of the weirdest stories. I thought it was all make believe to start with. But I’ve of the opinion now that – if you could check jail records and such as that, of when he was in jail, who were the black men that were in jail with him. At the time all of this was taking place. That it, might pay to check in to see who they were, and put tails on them, or whatever is necessary, because he says the black man is getting ready to blow the whole thing open. He talks to them – that they know him. That they tell him these things. And, all this is to me – to this point – is hearsay. But, uh, the other things that have come in to my consciousness since I’ve met the man. Uh, not all of it is hearsay, because things are happening.

Thank you CD. What a wonderful service you provide folks who are interested in hearing original source material. No hoops, no passwords, no watermarks, just making it available for us. You are a rare bird…

Thanks Johnny, I’m glad you enjoy the site. It takes a lot of time, research, work and often times, money to bring this content to web. So it’s very understandable that people watermark their work or require their users to register. We should all appreciate the work others do and share on their sites regardless of how they choose to present it.

Yeah, Johnny this stuff don’t come easy in terms of time, effort ,money and most of all Dedication to the research and the Subject.
So your pathetic comment shows no understanding of what is required to research and fund a Forum.

Do some Original Research yourself and see how you feel when someone steals it and claims it as there own instead of making petulant statements about others hard work and effort,

Xfirehurricane
Actually, I was making the comment that CD is a rare bird. It was a compliment. I was being appreciative of the fact that he doesn’t watermark, have us jump through hoops, passwords, etc. He has decided -and I am thankful that he has- to provide these materials to folks.

Original Research is most difficult, especially that which is peer reviewed. One day perhaps you’ll be kind enough to post some of your work product. After all, what good does it do to put all this effort into it and not share your findings albeit in a book or website?

Thanks to the person or people who administer this site and make all of this firsthand material available to us. This file is one of the most interesting you’ve posted yet and the quality of the audio is phenomenal. Crockett is a pretty colorful character in his own right and it’s good to hear his version of events from his own mouth.

The sound quality was quite good, all of it was easy to hear. Amazing to hear this, in that it was taped before the Barker Ranch raids and before Manson and the Family became infamous. Manson and his con game met his match in Crockett.

thank you for all your effort in organising the audio files. Fascinating to hear Crockett in his prime discussing Manson and the Family literally at the end of days a week or so before the final arrests. Even Crockett appears incredulous that Manson has such a hold over his group when the man himself appears so unpredictable and his philosophies so outlandish. Forty years on many of us still cannot grasp just how Manson achieved this. All the more auspicious as we are aware of the August killing spree unlike Crockett when he requests the authorities to intervene and put an end to Manson’s activities before something as serious as murder is committed. Thanks again for all your time and effort, it is greatly appreciated.

You know what is sad, Charles Manson is STILL programming people till this day. There are very simple-minded, weak people out there that worship him, write him letters, and even go visit him in prison. Sickens me!

This is a good interview because this shows before the discovery of Manson family being the perpetrators in the Tate-Labianca murders on how much they were a threat to former family members and the death valley miners in the area at the time.

I think this is one of the most complete sites I’ve ever seen, and I am sorry if people are stealing and claiming your content, you can copyright for free which will deter some of your problems. Does anyone else find it interesting that almost all of the people who fell into “the family” were very talented musically? You keep going down the list and you see that many of the people actually were in bands, were very musical, some even working regularly doing something music related. Manson couldn’t sing, clearly couldn’t write to save his life and in some way needed these talented people around him to feel as though he had some talent too. I’ve always thought the murders on Cielo were directed at Terry Melcher because he didn’t make Charlie a famous musician, that it was a petty anger at Melcher that drove the killings that night. Nobody rejects the great Charlie and gets to go on being rich and famous while he eats out of garbage bins. That’s what is so sad about the crime, completely innocent people died because they moved into that house, and the man behind the killings never bothered to check, or cared to check where his real target was. Manson couldn’t very well go after Melcher again or it very well could have lead back to Charlie. I wonder if Melcher thought about Manson and the family in the days after the murders. Crockett actually ended up saving some of these people, not only their lives but saved them from being around a man who manipulated horrific murders, causing what lives these people had to be spent wasted in prison for the rest of their lives. This is a real treasure and a labor of love, you have made the definitive Manson crime site. Thank you!