No, I agree the headset thing is systemic and by the team. It boggles me the NFL can't/doesn't stop that crap.

Mangini might want to look up how many SB wins the Pats have since then. No doubt they have been successful overall but not for the ultimate goal which somehow they won 3 times before Brady became the juggernaut he is today.

From the same place I got the Mangini quote:

"As of the conclusion of the 2011 NFL season, the Patriots had the best record in the NFL since Spygate, compiling a 48-16 record from 2008-11."

I don't think the Patriots needed to do it. I think they did it because they thought they could get away with it. And I remember a pretty lively debate at the time that many teams are engaged in this sort of 'espionage' activity, but just one got caught red-handed.

And I still don't see the huge difference in having a group of 'scouts' at an opponent's practice or walk-through taking notes and keeping track of things other than tape versus memory application.

Heck, I think it was either Ditka or Parcells that said teams that do not change their audibles and signals are pretty stupid. I'm not trying to condone the Patriots, but I think a bigger deal was made because it was the Patriots, as opposed to someone like the Browns getting caught. Obviously, the success magnifies everything.

But, I can tell you straight up as a fan, if the Texans win three Lombardi trophies and then get 'tarnished' by something like this after they won, I'll take that situation every day of the week. Quite frankly, I'm tired of 47 years of crap results in Houston, Texas.

__________________"Football is only a diversion." ~ Houston Texans, Inc.

Belichick is a cheater. Brady is an overrated system QB. (A very good QB, but the system has put him in the "greatest ever" debate, IMO.) And the success of its sports teams in the last dozen years have made Boston fans even more annoying than New York fans.

I've really come to respect boston sports teams since living up here. I'm a football fan first and foremost and the patriots are just an insanely well run organization. This year has been incredible to watch given the injuries and lack of playmakers they've had to work with.

Anyone who thinks Brady is an overrated system QB needs to watch more football

I'll always be a texans fan but I'm not going to pretend I don't enjoy watcing the patriots

Belichick is a cheater. Brady is an overrated system QB. (A very good QB, but the system has put him in the "greatest ever" debate, IMO.) And the success of its sports teams in the last dozen years have made Boston fans even more annoying than New York fans.

Are you serious? Unless by "system" you mean Brady finding the weakest link in the defense and exposing it until you adapt, then after that finding the next weakest link, and so on.

He's the reason whatever system they have works, not the other way around.

And I hate NE, but you have to respect what they've been doing for over a decade now.

I didn't realize until last night, although I guess it is obvious, that Brady and Belichick have never won a playoff game without each other. I doubt any other coach has ever had the luxury of just 1 QB in that fashion - he's only 1 game back of tying Landry for most playoff wins.

I wonder if Belichick hangs it up when Brady does. Brady is under contract for 4 more years which would put him at 40 years old and would put Belichick at 65.

Mangini might want to look up how many SB wins the Pats have since then. No doubt they have been successful overall but not for the ultimate goal which somehow they won 3 times before Brady became the juggernaut he is today.

This not a valid point at all. They have been to two SB's that were both lost because the other team had the ball last. Both games were nail biters as well. They have been to multiple AFC championship games I including the last 3 as of today. They dominated the NFL in the regular season as well. 10-6 is the worst record they have had since their last SB winning season. They have also created all types of records on offense as well.

To suggest that they haven't won anything when they have achieved a ton of accolades over the years is being extremely obtuse.

Belichick is a cheater. Brady is an overrated system QB. (A very good QB, but the system has put him in the "greatest ever" debate, IMO.) And the success of its sports teams in the last dozen years have made Boston fans even more annoying than New York fans.

You clearly have no knowledge of the history on the Patriots s organization to suggest something so silly. The patriots have had 3 different types of offensive systems under three different OC's and 4 different changes in the coaching of the offense since Brady has been there. If he is a system QB then everyone in the league is much more of a system QB because no other highly successful QB this league has had that many changes in their offense over the years especially to their skill players at receiver that have come and gone. Maybe you weren't aware of that. I'm sure that is the case, but calling a QB a system QB when he has had to adapt to several different systems and interchangeable players is just false and has no substance to the idea. Brady has had consistently made ckiciken salad out if chicken **** more than any other elite QB if this era by far.

As for the Pats, success has something to do with it (though it's not like they have been winning a lot of Super Bowls lately), I think it's more the attitude that franchise puts off, especially between Belicheat, Brady and their snotty fans.

I've really come to respect boston sports teams since living up here. I'm a football fan first and foremost and the patriots are just an insanely well run organization. This year has been incredible to watch given the injuries and lack of playmakers they've had to work with.

Anyone who thinks Brady is an overrated system QB needs to watch more football

I'll always be a texans fan but I'm not going to pretend I don't enjoy watcing the patriots

Your mind has been captured by the brainwashing techniques of the Satanic Belicheats.

Not necessarily different offenses, just different in how they've gone about getting their offense rolling over the years..... At least thats what i think he means. During Their championship runs they were mainly run heavy with smith and dillon...then when they got welker and moss they became more of a wide open offense...then they got Gronk and Hernandez and ushered in the 2 TE look....

That may have been their base system, but it has changed and been adjusted big time over the years. Hell they've had 3 different OC's that run it slightly different and they've changed their game plan year after year depending on what kind of weapons they have. Mcdaniels was not the same exact guy that Weiss was and neither was O'Brien when he took over for McDaniels. Then, McDaniels came back in after O'Brien was gone. That is 4 different changes for a QB which is something that people generally use to excuse poor QB play for other QB's.

The Patriots started out with a ton of average weapons and one really good clutch receiver in Brown that was great on 3rd down. They ran the ball well and picked teams apart. Then they got some weapons and became an all world offense that threw up and down the field all day and tore up the middle with Welker. Then they lost the deep threat in Moss once he went nuts, and started using a two TE base and made records with TE's and utilized Welker to be this elite slot receiver. Then they came in this season with literally no weapons and have had to use a guy like Edelman who was like their 4th or 5th string WR over the last 4 years or so. Brady has had to deal with more changes from the coaching staff and the personal more than any other top flight QB of this era and stayed successful while adjusting their offense time and time again to make it highly successful. The only constant has been Brady. The people that call Brady a "system guy" really don't understand their offense or their franchise, because most of the time people that say that attribute the success of their offense to Bellicheck who is not an offensive guy at all. He is a defensive specialist that was the DC behind Parcells for many years.

I said nothing close to "they haven't won anything" and you refuted absolutely nothing I said.

You insinuated that they hadn't won any SB's since that happened as if they "needed" that to be highly successful. Their history after that happened has suggested otherwise. Hell, going to two SB's where one season they were being called the best team of all time kind of makes that notion really silly. People that say things like this over the years are still watching the Patriots in the AFC championship game almost every year and will say it no matter what happens, because they simply don't like a team that is winning tons of games every year.

Belichick is a cheater. Brady is an overrated system QB. (A very good QB, but the system has put him in the "greatest ever" debate, IMO.) And the success of its sports teams in the last dozen years have made Boston fans even more annoying than New York fans.

lol!! Yeah, and Joe Montana was only a system QB for the WCO.

Everyone knows that "a system" just *magically* runs itself. You can plug ANYONE into it and a system just PRODUCES regardless of players or coaches.

I wonder if some folks even watch the NFL, or if hatred causes mental blinders that prevent objective thoughts.

__________________"Football is only a diversion." ~ Houston Texans, Inc.