Are There Any Bad Churches

Is it possible that by continuing to attend a Christian church you find yourself growing further away from God, instead of growing closer to Him? If it is possible, is it fair to say that by stop attending church you have started backsliding?

The point, as I see it, is we are not under the old covenant, not saved by obeying the 10 commandments. Nonetheless we cannot disobey them, as you agree.

Therefore as we cannot commit adultery, we must observe the Sabbath. Maybe we can call sunday the Sabbath (but it isn't) but how many Christians treat even the Sunday 'Sabbath', in the way the Sabbath was meant to be observed?

The Sabbath was designed for man, for our rest, to withdraw from the world and recover, to have a God-centered day.

I have stayed in many SDA homes and enjoyed their God-centred peaceful no-hassles Sabbath. Not one of them ever said Sabbath observance was a requirement for salvation.

The church is not responsible for the quality of one's relationship to God, but instead the individual is responsible for cultivating their own personal relationship to God. For example, in a family each individual child is responsible for fostering a good healthy relationship with their father, and one's brother nor sister is able to make you love your father any more than what you have already decided on giving to your father. Church-going does not equal backsliding. A soul needs to have a strong relationship with God even outside of a church. I recommend a good church, you may merely need to spruce up your oneness with God. Think on all the good things that Jesus has done for you, and tell him so, and thank him and worship him.

They would never give up their time on Friday nights and Saturdays for anything but themselves. After five days of work/school, they think they deserve Friday nights and Saturdays for entertainment, being with friends and family, watching TV or listening to radio, going to church and bible study, spending time on the computer or listening to their ipods, and the list goes on and on.

Christians need time off from everything worldly, especially in today's hectic society. This is why they should observe the Sabbath. Their eternal life depends on this.

Warwick-//Are you saying we can claim to be Christian even if our regular lifestyle includes wilful lying, stealing, ...etc? I nonetheless wonder if we are free to disobey all or any of the Commandments?//

Of course not! that is the trap Adventists use to ensnare those who have little knowledge of either the Scripture or its Author.

Their is basically a system of ethics that they feel gives them favor with God.

The 10 commandments are the Old Covenant.

And he declared to you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, i.e. the Ten Commandments, and he wrote them on two tablets of stone.De 4:13

Are we under the New Covenant of the church or the Old Covenant given only to the Hebrew nation?

alan8566_of_uk: "It was not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Sprit would tell you the truth... You have been told a lie. Not all churches are as you describe."

If a person did not have the Holy Spirit in them, how would that person know if the other person didn't have the Holy Spirit in them? IF that one person have the Holy Spirit in him, he would know that the other person also has the Holy Spirit in them. They would be one in the spirit and know the truth. A great delusion has encompass the world were even the elect will be fooled into believing the lie, if that were possible. There are dozens of prophets roaming the world warning christians of what is happening in the world, but the christians have shut their eyes and ears to them.

OK, Lee, let's reason this out if you are not satisfied with other posters.

The seventh day observance of the Sabbath came thousands of years before the Israelites became a nation. So we know now that it isn't a Jewish thing. Moses brought the 'written' Word of God to a people whose hearts were hardened. They observed the Sabbath when God punished them and rewarded them. Do you think that God would continue to reward them if they were not following the Sabbath commandment? They have been following the Sabbath commandment for over 3,500 years - even to this day.

Let us pray for the brother's who have fallen away from the gospel due to error in teachings let us pray in our most holy faith in our Lord Jesus Christ that he may rescue those who are not trusting in him... These my friends are the Lost Fold this is the race in which we live in ... the Prize of our finishing of faith is Jesus Christ... Let us not fall away even for a day... For there are many out there that the Lord is looking for... This is why we are still hear while the day is still today believe and be saved and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ.. Amen Let us pray for each other in the body of Christ forever. These things we ask to our Heavenly Father in the Spirt thru our Lord Jesus Christ Amen..

As a safe rule of thumb, switch churches.Most churches are infiltrated by the Jesuits and are part of the ecumenical movement to units religion under the pope. Most ignore the issue of Bible versions.Peter says definitively that there will be false teachers, as did Jesus

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.False prophets are: Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.2Peter2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies...

Lee I wrote 'Though we are not in any way saved by obedience to the 10 Commandments we cannot claim to be Christian if we continue to wilfully disobey 9 of them, so why can we disobey the Sabbath Commandment?'

Are you saying we can claim to be Christian even if our regular lifestyle includes wilful lying, stealing, adultery, murder, etc? It appears you are!

As neither a Sabbath keeper, nor a salvation by works Christian I nonetheless wonder if we are free to disobey all or any of the Commandments?

With your self-proclaimed higher intellect maybe you can answer these questions?

Also again, and again I ask again I ask: show me where I have tried to corrupt the word of God.

Lee, you claim we cannot know the length of the first 3 days. I have repeatedly supplied Biblical proof, and other evidence, that we can. You have supplied nothing. In fact you gave the same dictionary quote, which confirms Genesis 1:5 defines 24hr day.

The following comes from a hostile witness who rejects Scripture as historical truth:

'Probably, so far as I know, there is no professor of Hebrew or Old Testament at any world-class university who does not believe that the writer(s) of Genesis 1-11 intended to convey to their readers the ideas that:Creation took place in a series of six days which were the same as the days of 24 hours we now experience.

Unfortunately I'd have to agree, there are bad churches, but bad would need to be defined. Nothing wrong with leaving a church where you are not getting what you need spiritually. Some churches are not necessarily bad, however, you may have just outgrown that particular fellowship because God is calling you to a higher calling and the church is limited doctrinally, spiritually, etc. You can't go above your leaders and it's not good to stay and be rebellious. It's better to "go where you can grow and bloom where you're planted."

The question seems to assume that a Christian church can CAUSE one to move away from God. Not true.

If you have a PERSONAL relationship with God and His Son Jesus Christ, no mere church can erode it. A church may not encourage the relationship. It may even teach false doctrine. And you may be wise to leave it.

But it cannot cause you to "grow further away from God!" "Backsliding" is something you do all by yourself. And you can do it in the church or out... no ducking responsibility by blaming the church!

The only way to grow closer to God is to read His Word prayerfully, and in spirit of repentance, ask the Lord to help you.

Lee you wrote '.. you are really promoting a salvation by works and right beliefs.'

Oh the The irony of this!

I believe in salvation by grace, not works,(Ephesians 2:8-10) as anyone who has followed these pages knows.

However you doggedly hold to an antiBiblical view which undermines the gospel. The only gospel is based upon the fact that Adam sinned bringing death and suffering into the world. However your belief places the fossil record before Adam's sin. The fossil record is a record of death, disease and suffering.

Scripture says death, disease and suffering is a consequence of Adam's sin. But you disagree!

You who undermine the gospel have have the gall to say I believe in salvation by works. How ironic.

Whenever you add something to the Bible such as saying all the Creation days were of 24 hours duration, you basically are corrupting the text by inserting your own belief.

And such is the habit of those addicted to religion rather than those that are 'Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God'.Hebrews 12:2

Lee- Once again you prove my point. Warwick has had questions about the OT Sabbath, Warwick believes in Yahushua as his savior and has never stated that by keeping or not keeping the sabbath gets you to heaven, but yet christians like you come out against him because of it! The point you help prove is this: to be a good christian according to you and those like you, a person must break YHVH's commandments. If a person breaks the commandments they are accepted as good christians. I do not always agree with Warwick but I respect him, you on the other hand get proven wrong on everything , and your teeth come out. Let Warwick alone.

The answer to both questions is, "Not Possible. So many people are mislead in believeing that Jesus has really saved them. When infact, He has not. If you do as God leads you, you will do WELL! ---catherine on 8/21/09

Yes and no. You can attend and never really join in fellowship and easily drift, particularly at large megachurches. Get involved in a ministry and find an accountability partner. If you are attending a church you believe is in doctrinal error, ask God to show you your next move. God will never mislead those who truly seek him. There is no advantage to the kingdom to Christians drifting and twisting in the wind. All those who truly seek him will find him.

Warwick - I think there may be others on this forum that views you as the deceiver since you demand others believe in the same assumptions you base your belief system on.

I was very surprised when you stated one really could not call oneself a Christian without observing the OT Sabbath. In feeding at that trough, you are really promoting a salvation by works and right beliefs.

And I am still waiting for a verse in Scripture that says the 1st 3 periods of Creation were 24 hour duration. You just do not get it, do you?

Lee what you call my view is actually what Scripture says. If I were wrong you would quote Scripture to demonstrate my error. You don't becaue Scripture does not support you, in fact directly contradicts you. But why would you quote Scripture? Man is your authority, not God.

Scripture proves your view undermines the gospel but you are silent as there is nothing you can say which aligns with Scripture.

Rom. 5:12 'Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin,...'

1 Corinthians 15: 21,22 'For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.'

These verses alone show your view is wrong. You have death before sin whereas Scripture plainly says death follows sin. You have man evolving from a non-Human, the 'missing link' with death of man before Adam sinned.

In your desire to follow the fables of man you destroy the only saving gospel.

Warwick, StrongAxe 8/20/09 comment is true and appropriate for your problem regarding the creation days. Sorry that you persist with your nonsense.

In Exodus 20:8-11 God says He created in 6-days,rested the 7th, commanding the Israelites do likewise.

1) The standards mentioned elsewhere in the Bible for how long a day is, and which were in common use when the Bible was written, relied on the Sun, which did not exist during the first three days.2) The Bible does not make any explicit mention of how long the first three days wereThus, common sense would dictate that we must admit that "We don't know", rather than making unwarranted assumptions based on facts not in evidence.

I was lead by the Holy Spirit to reveal this bit of knowledge. But if I told you the truth, you would not believe me. You needed physical prove and I gave it to you. You would even doubt Jesus' word if He were on these blogs. But since you are not one in the Spirit, you doubt.

Warwick: "I just wonder where you live. I would like to know as I would then avoid it! The churches there must be atrocious."

A lazy christian, you are. This area is ripe for a christian to bring the word of God. The harvest is plenty in my area of the world, but the workers are so few.

Steveng you say the couple shouldn't stop taking people into their home,that there is a lesson to be learned. Yes they have already learned the lesson,don't take strangers into their home. I can't agree that God allowed it to happen for a reason. He doesn't bring evil on his people,in spite of Job's example,if they were Christians,and if not then God isn't active in their lives. Using that same attitude then you shouldn't be down on Organized,Denominational Churches because God was just teaching you a lesson and he will straighten things out,so you should stay in them and wait for him to do it. The Bible says Matthew 10:16 be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. Wisdom dictates you don't repeat something which is bad for you,or hurts you.

Stevenq yours is an experience of one, as is mine. However my experience, and that of others is very different to yours, so it is not proper, or reasonable, to apply your limited experience, as though you can speak for every, or even a small part of the denominational church.

Are there bad churches out there? Of course there, as there are excellent ones.

If you find a perfect church stay away as something is wrong as no human or body of humans is perfect.

I just wonder where you live. I would like to know as I would then avoid it! The churches there must be atrocious.

Darlene_1: "A couple here took in refuges from hurricane IKE and woke up to find they had robbed them."

Have you not read the book of Job? God knows what happened to this couple and He also knows their needs in which He will resupply them from the thing they lost. Somewhere there is a lesson to be learned by the couple, between the couple and God only. God allowed their experience for a reason. They shouldn't stop helping people just because of bad apples. For it is written that we know not if we are entertaining an angel.

Steveng it's a different world from 34 years ago. It has gotten mean and more dangerous than anyone could even imagine 34 years ago. With that happening danger waits to overtake the slack person who is too free with their hospitality or anything else. I think anyone who trusts a stranger to stay in their home nowadays is just careless and asking for trouble. The same thing applies to Churches handing out to just anyone who comes along and asks for it. They have learned there are people who beg for a living. Besides to me it is wrong to take Church money and hand it out to strangers when there are people who help to contribute to a Church who need help. A couple here took in refuges from hurricane IKE and woke up to find they had robbed them.

Warwick: "... but your statement is a generalization which you cannot prove."

If I told you that the Holy Spirit revealed it to me, you would be skeptical and have a few slanderous remarks against me. (You would need to be one in the spirit to know I tell the truth).

Part One:But you want physical proof: there were two similar circumstances - one thirty four years ago and the other eight years ago. The first time, while hitchhiking throughout North America, I sent a letter to a "church" of a certain town I was planning to visit asking the pastor if a member of their congregation would provide a place for me to stay for a couple of days. I received two offers from only three letters sent.

Part Two:Eight years ago, I sent the exact same letter to three different local churches asking the pastor if a member of their congregation would provide a place for me to stay for a couple of days. - no response. I then sent ten letters to ten different (denominational) "churches" - no response. I then sent 35 letters to 35 different churches, of various christian denominations, and received five offers - three said they didn't have anyone available and two agreed, but only if I became a member of their church first.

So, you see, Love has vanished during one generation from the christian heart and your so-called christian denominational "churches."

You say "And lots of misguided christians.", are in denominations. The same applies to small groups. That's where most "cults" get their start.

"Where two or more are gathered in Jesus' name, there He shall be." People gather "in Jesus name" for all sorts of purposes, including unloving and deceptive ones.

"Our authourity(sic) is God only and led by the Holy Spirit." This is what Jim Jones said...and the Christian Identity Movement(Aryan Nations)...and The Children of God, who teach basic Christian tenets and almost total sexual license.

True Christians have a personal relationship with God. Many ATTEND, and find fellowship in, denominational churches

Warwick,thank you,you're so right about church being more than just going and hearing preaching. You're correct in saying without any higher Authority in this World to answer to,people do stray. What many people forget is that we are the product of one Father,God,therefore,family. That Family fellowship when we attend church is stronger,with more people to pray,care,and stand with us when we need them to be there for us and it allows us to know about and pray for others needs too. People don't join church to reach God,they join because they have already reached God. The Bible says Hebrews 10:25 forsake not the assembling of ourselves together,as the manner of some is,but exhorting one another:and so much the more,as ye see the day approaching.

Stevenq it was you who wrote 'denominational "churches" do more harm than good to a person's faith..' As it was you who made this generalization, which Darlene challenged, it is up to you, to defend it, if challenged. There is no way Darlene is required to defend her criticism.

If you had said some churches do more harm than good... then I would agree, but your statement is a generalization which you cannot prove.

Darlene_1: ""Denominational churches do more harm than good to a persons faith." That is the most absurd exaggeration about denominational churches I have ever heard and a complete fabrication about their influnce on their members. It is impossible to make that kind of judgement accurately without having attended every denominational church in the world. Until one does that they have no real knowlege of the workings of those and are operating on hearsay and speculation."

And you have attended every "church" to prove I'm wrong? If the Holy Spirit says it is so, how can you disprove the Holy Spirit?

Darlene_1: "Small groups can only be good for Christians if they are led by mature,well studied,Spirit led Christians, but not instead of church and not motivated by rebellion to churches. Otherwise small groups present a danger for Christians who aren't anchored by Gods Word and Spirit."

The churches you read in Revelation were only locations of churches, not denominations. A group of christians is the church where two or more are gathered in my name, there is where you'll find Jesus. Most christians have this misconceived idea that a christian must belong to a church to reach God. Hogwash! All a person needs are a relationship with God and fellowship.

Yes its possible to attend a church and grow further away from God. Corporate worship is important and commanded but "the will" to grow closer to God is a personal decision of where we have both total choice and responsibility. The church family should offer comfort and accountability for both the novice and senior believer. While its possible to stop attending a church and backslide, its important to understand backsliding is an issue of the heart not attendance. Goid bless

"Denominational churches do more harm than good to a persons faith." That is the most absurd exaggeration about denominational churches I have ever heard and a complete fabrication about their influnce on their members. It is impossible to make that kind of judgement accurately without having attended every denominational church in the world. Until one does that they have no real knowlege of the workings of those and are operating on hearsay and speculation. Small groups can only be good for Christians if they are led by mature,well studied,Spirit led Christians, but not instead of church and not motivated by rebellion to churches. Otherwise small groups present a danger for Christians who aren't anchored by Gods Word and Spirit.

Steveng -- There are a lot of people who belong to a "denominational" church and also have a few friends with whom they speak daily about spiritual matters and with whom they pray.

Most new-born Christians are NOT confused by belonging to a denominationl church because, if they have found the Lord, it is HE that they are interested in more than traditions.

There are lots of interpretations of the Bible. A small group of friends is no more likely to interpret the Bible correctly than an organized church. In fact, a small group is more likely to mis-lead, unless they are under some authority.

Denominational "churches" do more harm than good to a person's faith. A newly born christian would be totally confused about who is the right (denominational)church each having their own traditions, ways of living, and interpretations of the bible. The churches mentioned in the bible were merely locations of groups of christians - not denominations. Christians today have become hearers only. When you are ready to strengthen your faith just gather a few friends to meet daily to make sure each do not stray from the path to the Kingdom of God. Do an online KJV bible search for "one another," "each other," and "encourag" To find out HOW.

Contrary to popular belief, christians do not need to belong to denominational "churches," but instead develop a personal relationship with God. What is important though is relationships with other christians - fellowship on a daily basis.

On a personal note, I truly feel sorry for children today. Children learn mostly by example from birth to ten years of age. If parents would do what the bible says (to train up a child morning, noon, and night and have daily fellowship) children will then learn how to develop personal relationships through daily fellowship and, in turn, develop a strong relationship with God.

I would suggest that rather than consider a bad church. We all look for ths true church.I have given much help to those who are interested in my Book "The Image Of god in This generation." I calle dno denomination by name, just made it very easy for believers to worship with true believers. The subtitle of the book is " serving and worshiping an unchanging God." When you read my Book, you will find that very few churches actually worship God as an unchaning God. We forget that God does not change his word. Yes, there are still churches who serve and worship the unchanging God. the book is 159 pages long inone sitting you can find the truth.

To---Righteous_stand, before speaking of how little the elders know the Bible perhaps you should consider your own knowledge in the light of this verse in Matthew 5:22,"22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."

The church I attend has a great pastor, but then everything else falls apart. 4 of the elders are fairly new Christians with little knowledge of the Bible. They do not know how to respond to issues using the bible as their guides. They always are after their own agendas and never consider what Christ wants in his church. They say things like "Our cousins in that church are not as high up as we are in this church". When a brother is openly sinning they say, "Oh well, everyone has a different spiritual walk". Jesus warned that he would spit them from out of his mouth in the book of Revelation. Since the Pastor is not considering challenging and removing these fools, we are leaving this church.

The church I attend has a great pastor, but then everything else falls apart. 4 of the elders are fairly new Christians with little knowledge of the Bible. They do not know how to respond to issues using the bible as their guides. They always are after their own agendas and never consider what Christ wants in his church. They say things like "Our cousins in that church are not as high up as we are in this church". When a brother is openly sinning they say, "Oh well, everyone has a different spiritual walk". Jesus warned that he would spit them from out of his mouth in the book of Revelation. Since the Pastor is not considering challenging and removing these fools, we are leaving this church.

The first place that the devil is going to look for Christians to destroy is in the buildings of the church. As socialism takes over worldwide, the only safe church to belong to will be the underground church. This is my opinion. We will experience what Russia and China have had for many decades.

Remenber the Harvest they burn the tares and thistles But gather the wheat into the barns.Can you CHANGE, you have that opportunity.6 months of Teaching and preaching then comes 6 months of PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE to become perfect every year.CHANGE

Give me your opinions on whether we will be taken out of this world before the anti-Christ is revealed or after.

"Moderator - Although I am in the minority, I believe Christians will know who the Anti-Christ is. However, the majority in the apostate church today will not know him as the Anti-Christ, but instead will embrace him."

Many churches today are bad influences. The "entertainment" churches with their raucous music and no doctrinal teachings mislead people. The feel good churches where words like "sin" and "hell" are banned do more harm than good. Satan is the father of lies. We are engaged in spiritual warfare. We need the weapon of Truth.

If the church is not operating in God's will, then YES these things can happen, the bible warned us of these churches in the latter days. Read about Toxic Churces and how satan uses them to destroy the believer. Look for another church if this is what you know is happening to you. Read "Faith that Hurts, Faith That Heals" by Arterburn and Felton. Seek Gods will at this time. I was in a toxic church and it nearly destroyed my walk, I left and got healing from it.

Today's church is not the institution that we read about in the New Covenant (testament). Today's "church" has become it's own religion, not Bible based, whereas the true church was simply Christians meeting and operating under the Holy Spirit's power supernaturally. They often met at each other's houses, gave up all they had for a common goal of helping the world around them and spreading the gospel. Today's church is so far from that, you better make certain that they teach only the Bible.

Not only are there bad churches --- you can have a bad experience more times than not! We live in a time when "self" is priority #1 and God is way down the list -- even in churches. The good news is, good chuches are there to be found --but nice people-- is not the gauge of a good church, it's the bible.

If they teach more of worldly things & steer away from the bible , then flee. As long as you keep a personal relationship with God then you can not backslide. If you totally stay away from God yes you can depart from him.find a church that teaches sound doctrine bible, the actual bible teachings & none of this new age "feel good" nonsense doctrine.

If someone ceases to go to a particular church because they believe the teaching is false in some way they should do 3 things. 1. Pray about it, 2. challenge the leadership of that church pointing out biblically why you believe they are wrong and 3. find a new bible believing church. Wrong teaching in one church should never be a reason for ceasing to attend church totally. Ask God to lead you to the correct one, otherwise you will backslide.

We left a church because they thought abortion was okay, and joined a more bible based one.Science of the mind type churches do not believe Jesus was the son of God and our Savior, just a prophet, a good person, etc.They focus on God the Father and power of positive thinking.

there are plenty of bad churches that just go thru the motions. OH, they get emotional and say its the spirit, but believe me, its the wrong kind of spirit. Now, you can call me judgemental, but you must try the spirits.

People make up churches not buildings. We know from the Bible that there are and will be good and bad people in the church (wheat and tares)The thing to do so as not to be drawn away from God is to keep your eyes on Jesus NOT on peope. But if after all, you should fall back or backslide, you would do well to look for a church with a more positive spiritual environment.

If you stop going to church, meeting with other Christians, don't read you bible like you first did, yes, That is back sliding.

If you are going to a Christian church, and feel like you are getting farther away from God. It most likely is evil desires in your own heart. Those desires draw us away from God, not to Him. It is the old nature. Ask God to forgive and set you on fire for Him and give you a love for His word. It's not hopeless.

Julia, unfortunately, some Christian churches don't teach or preach the Word of God and therefore, you can backslide if you aren't being fed. However, if that's the case then I suggest you look for a church that does. You should also be reading God's Word on your own. andre9495