Behaviour in the Gurdwara

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SPNer

I find that the behaviour in the gurdwara is jsut disgusting. If you were to go to a church, or mosque you would never see anything like what you see at the gurdwara. Elderly women are constanly gossiping and talking in the langar hallls and even the divan halls!:}--}:

People let their children run around, make noise and play. And when you yell at other peoples children their parents become easily offened. Ladies would rather look at and disscuss what other woman are wearing than talk about the daily vakkk or the meaning of the kirtan. After 300+ years this is what we've gotten toooo???

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SPNer

SAT SRI AKAL TO ALL,
first of all i appreciate the concern you have shown regarding the behaviour of sikh snagat in gurdwara's. and i am really with you. but if we recall what the true sikhism is than we should be able to find the solution to this problem.
first of all guru granth sahib ji teaches us the way of living life,this is the real living treasure for us. ( jiwan jhach da khazana) this guru of ours teaches us the basic things about life, about people around us, love , hatred , jealous, and many more things which cant be counted here. and sggs ji teaches us about creating a world of selfless service through , self recoganition, self esteem, self expresion ,and emotional and social security.

so the problem here is about the behaviour of people in sikh temple. but for vry obvious reasons this is we who can create the environment where we can teach otheres about the reason t come to gurdwara, we can ask ourselves( self realisation), than we can ask our parents our friends , our relatives , and other people about the motive to go to gurdawara, we cant blame the system for our own behaviour. we should be very helpful to gurdawar a managments to be able to provide a very discpline environment to real devotees. we should not feel hesitant to ask those women folks who go on discussing about , clothes , children,and other topics, and should divert their minds in discussing about gurbani, and and involving them into naam simran.
so dear this is we who can change the environment of gurdwara.
bhul chulk maaf , and do tell em about my mistakes
always
vipjas.

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SPNer

Gurudwara means door to Guru,some people who are not liked by Guru to be united with the same return from the door so do not do service of Gurubar Akal,do not understand Sabad Guru or respect Guru Panth.

But to make Gurudwara unlike unruly pagan temple,decipline has to be manitained.But often Idiotic management people behvae as if farmer is at his field.

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SPNer

SAT SRI AKAL TO ALL,
first of all i appreciate the concern you have shown regarding the behaviour of sikh snagat in gurdwara's. and i am really with you. but if we recall what the true sikhism is than we should be able to find the solution to this problem.
first of all guru granth sahib ji teaches us the way of living life,this is the real living treasure for us. ( jiwan jhach da khazana) this guru of ours teaches us the basic things about life, about people around us, love , hatred , jealous, and many more things which cant be counted here. and sggs ji teaches us about creating a world of selfless service through , self recoganition, self esteem, self expresion ,and emotional and social security.

so the problem here is about the behaviour of people in sikh temple. but for vry obvious reasons this is we who can create the environment where we can teach otheres about the reason t come to gurdwara, we can ask ourselves( self realisation), than we can ask our parents our friends , our relatives , and other people about the motive to go to gurdawara, we cant blame the system for our own behaviour. we should be very helpful to gurdawar a managments to be able to provide a very discpline environment to real devotees. we should not feel hesitant to ask those women folks who go on discussing about , clothes , children,and other topics, and should divert their minds in discussing about gurbani, and and involving them into naam simran.
so dear this is we who can change the environment of gurdwara.
bhul chulk maaf , and do tell em about my mistakes
always
vipjas.

respected friends , i want to divert your thoughts to the above mentioned answer,
please understands the basic idea behind the question, and its remedies. this is not the issue the gurdwara is a house of god or not, the thing is gurdwara is a place where we people go to offer our prayers and discuss about the teachings of sggs ji, and learn the basic about our living.
No doubt the god is omnipresent and no need to have place for god, but the thing is gurdwara are built for the community so that they can come and can learn from each other and from SGGS ji.
only we can change the atmosphere of gurdwara.
sorry if i hurt anybody's feeling .
bhul chuk maaf.

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SPNer

I'm guessing that atleast you're the (only) enlightened entity in a gurudwara, then why are you not being meditating with God at that time? Why are you distracting yourself by these (innocent) children running around (who're forced to be there anyway)? Why are you listening to the gossips of these ladies, who come to the gurudwara to meet thier (only) friends?

You think people don't gossip in a Church or a mosque? You don't think people's mind wavers in these places? It's human nature! you want to be zombies and not be themselves.. then why be there? Most of the people I know in my gurudwara come for the food, the company and for letting people know that they come to the gurudwara.. again this goes with my "being accepted" theory. Most people just want to be accepted. that's it. The beliefs they have just revolve around this fact.

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(simpy previously Surinder Kaur Cheema)

SPNer

I'm guessing that atleast you're the (only) enlightened entity in a gurudwara, then why are you not being meditating with God at that time? Why are you distracting yourself by these (innocent) children running around (who're forced to be there anyway)? Why are you listening to the gossips of these ladies, who come to the gurudwara to meet thier (only) friends?

You think people don't gossip in a Church or a mosque? You don't think people's mind wavers in these places? It's human nature! you want to be zombies and not be themselves.. then why be there? Most of the people I know in my gurudwara come for the food, the company and for letting people know that they come to the gurudwara.. again this goes with my "being accepted" theory. Most people just want to be accepted. that's it. The beliefs they have just revolve around this fact.

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Respected Tantrix,

Totally agree with you, we must become examples for others. By merely condemning others actions, we cannot bring the change.

If a person is really concentrating on what is being read by Bhai Sahibs at Gurudwara Sahib, nothing can distract him/her.

Start with yourself:Identify how to behave appropriately in a Gurdwara Sahib and understand why this is important, and then follow it.Start discipline from yourself, and then involve your children, your family, and then other acquaintances. Nothing is impossible.

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SPNer

I kinda like the fact that the Gurudwara has a laid back atmosphere. It's not unnecessarily intimidating. Those who wish to listen to the bani can do so, and those who don't are at least attending the Gurudwara with a sense of community and joy.

You could try sucking the life out of it and turn it into yet another stuck-up institution that takes itself way too seriously (last time I checked, God had no use for institutions in order to be communed with...) resulting in people only going because they haveto...like a chore to get out of the way.

Such forcefulness will do more harm than good to the numbers attending the Gurudwara.

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(simpy previously Surinder Kaur Cheema)

SPNer

I kinda like the fact that the Gurudwara has a laid back atmosphere. It's not unnecessarily intimidating. Those who wish to listen to the bani can do so, and those who don't are at least attending the Gurudwara with a sense of community and joy.

You could try sucking the life out of it and turn it into yet another stuck-up institution that takes itself way too seriously (last time I checked, God had no use for institutions in order to be communed with...) resulting in people only going because they haveto...like a chore to get out of the way.

Such forcefulness will do more harm than good to the numbers attending the Gurudwara.

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Yes you do not necessarily need an institution to be in communion with God (if you are capable enough to follow your inner Guide; you are at a stage where your mind is under full control). But you can certainly commune with the Divine within anywhere, even at a Gurudwara Sahib; does not matter what others are doing-socializing, performing a task to get out of the way whatever.All what matters is, what you are doing.

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SPNer

Friends out of Sikhism love the gudwara. One of my muslim mates thinks its well cool that we are not so serious and stringent in Gudwara's and when the time comes we do all group and pray (for example Ardas). The fact you can play football in the carpark, we have community events which the kids love going to. We are a blue print for other religeous buildings who have now started to follow suit.

And yes people do gossip in Churches, Mandirs and Mosques. Are they not human? it's our nature. We do it in work, at home, at school, with friends. So why 'hide' that from the Gudwara?

Children are children and let them run free - in this crowded world it is one of the few open spaces they get! especially in the City.

Christians think its great we all sit down and eat together and chat, get to know our communities-even the gossip. And thats the nature of women. They love the fact that children can run free rather than sittin in your lap squealing and crying because you will be condemned to hell if they are allowed to run around! or they can not come to weddings because the hassle it creats!

The men talk Business! and gossip about other men - believe it or not!

They are meant to be community places. They are also the very few places that has so much input from Everyone (i.e. langar de seva).

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SPNer

As a Sikh das thinks that we need to be showing same respect to Temple,Syngounge,Mosque and Church as we show to Gurudwara Sahib as God lives everywhere.so even if we visit such places we need to show high qultiy of Sikh behaviour.

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SPNer

I find that the behaviour in the gurdwara is jsut disgusting. If you were to go to a church, or mosque you would never see anything like what you see at the gurdwara. Elderly women are constanly gossiping and talking in the langar hallls and even the divan halls!:}--}:

People let their children run around, make noise and play. And when you yell at other peoples children their parents become easily offened. Ladies would rather look at and disscuss what other woman are wearing than talk about the daily vakkk or the meaning of the kirtan. After 300+ years this is what we've gotten toooo???

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gossiping during Prayer services is offending ..i can understand that ...but whats wrong with chit chatting otherwise ..well you know i feel ..if people talk and interact they get closer ...i dont really like those icy looks ..i prefer folding my hands and greeting ..interacting after Samapati...why cant we be ourselves .. i never mean noisy..which punjabis otherwise are ...we can take care of the harsh loud noisy tones ..but lets feel at home man !

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SPNer

HardKaur - I can see why one could take offence to the issues that you rise but...come on, maybe you need to relax a little bit. You can not control what other people do but set what you believe to be the "right" example.

I think that it is fantastic that the Gurdwara is a place where people take what they need (spiritually) from it. I have never been in a church (and i can say this as I come form a very strong Presbyterian family) that gives such a strong and lasting message.

What would I recommend? Listen to the words of our Guru. Concern yourself NOT with what is happening around you. This is a wonderful time to reflect on the name of Waheguru!

Finally, I love that no matter where you go in life- there to your side is that 'old lady' tutting her tongue and shaking her head at someone...at least they are leaving someone else alone...hehehehe

HardKaur, relax buddy. Enjoy the Gurdwara for what it is intended to be.

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SPN Sewadaar

I find that the behaviour in the gurdwara is jsut disgusting. If you were to go to a church, or mosque you would never see anything like what you see at the gurdwara. Elderly women are constanly gossiping and talking in the langar hallls and even the divan halls!:}--}:

People let their children run around, make noise and play. And when you yell at other peoples children their parents become easily offened. Ladies would rather look at and disscuss what other woman are wearing than talk about the daily vakkk or the meaning of the kirtan. After 300+ years this is what we've gotten toooo???

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Ask yourself why those people are discussing rather than listening?

I have found many people (especially those in the West), cannot understand Gurmukhi or Kirtan so they get nothing out of it.

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When I was younger and my parents would take me to the Gurdwara I would notice the same things. I would be sitting there looking around, see who's coming into Darbar Sahib, whose doing what and even sometimes join in to talk to a friend. As now I go to the Gurdwara I notice nothing of the sort for my eyes are closed and my full attention is to the katha or kirtan. I just absorb myself into the katha or kirtan.

Just remember we are there to meet our Guru and learn from our Guru. Be the example and others around you that like to talk or gossip will change. I know I did!

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1947-2014 (Archived)

I have found many people (especially those in the West), cannot understand Gurmukhi or Kirtan so they get nothing out of it.

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Randip ji -- Yes and No. In my gurdwara nearly EVERYONE comes from the Punjab, in early waves and more recent waves of immigration. Maybe there are 6 among the adults who are not born to Sikhi and did not therefore learn prayers and gurbani kirtaan by heart. And maybe there are a few who cannot understand the katha in Punjabi. The teenagers and younger kids would be another group that would not know Gurmukhi proficiently -- and then of course me and one other guy. But the commotion coming from the back half of the Darbar on the women's side is so loud sometimes that I cannot understand anything in any language. The men do not carry on conversations whatsoever. It got so bad that the speakers were finally turned on high volume to drown out the conversations because no one in the front could hear the katha or the kirtan in spite of understanding Punjabi.

So I grasp Singh ji's point. Better to get wrapped up in one's devotion. It is hard to keep eyes closed though, because people get up and walk around and one has to move a bit to make a path out. But this is also the charm of the place -- one reason why it is a warm and inviting. It has its mood -- which is energetic, inclusive, tolerant and active. Surinder ji above has it right I think. End of rant!

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SPN Sewadaar

Randip ji -- Yes and No. In my gurdwara nearly EVERYONE comes from the Punjab, in early waves and more recent waves of immigration. Maybe there are 6 among the adults who are not born to Sikhi and did not therefore learn prayers and gurbani kirtaan by heart. And maybe there are a few who cannot understand the katha in Punjabi. The teenagers and younger kids would be another group that would not know Gurmukhi proficiently -- and then of course me and one other guy. But the commotion coming from the back half of the Darbar on the women's side is so loud sometimes that I cannot understand anything in any language. The men do not carry on conversations whatsoever. It got so bad that the speakers were finally turned on high volume to drown out the conversations because no one in the front could hear the katha or the kirtan in spite of understanding Punjabi.

So I grasp Singh ji's point. Better to get wrapped up in one's devotion. It is hard to keep eyes closed though, because people get up and walk around and one has to move a bit to make a path out. But this is also the charm of the place -- one reason why it is a warm and inviting. It has its mood -- which is energetic, inclusive, tolerant and active. Surinder ji above has it right I think. End of rant!

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Maybe we need full translations or days when things are explained in English.

In my local Gurudwara I find myself going to the library there 99% of the time because I really don't want to listen to some fellow preaching how my children should be speaking Punjabi at home. People still confuse the fact that Punjabiat and Sikhi are two seperate things.

I would like to know also what peoples view is on what a Gurudwara is meant to be?

A place of learning?

A place where we listen to our Guru? Can people through discussion learn about Sikhi?

Can we really have a gossip Police (at the GNSSJ they have a gossip Police and many people won't go there)?

Is me sitting in the Gurudwara reading about Sikhi as valid as listening to Kirtan?

Can me asking about someones welfare who I have met after a long time be contrued as gossip?

I find that the Gurudwara you often meet people you have not met in a long time hence you talk to them. Is that really that bad?

Many elements of Gurudwara life promote Social interaction eg Sewa, Langaar etc, so when people converse socially is it that bad?

One thing I will say is that I find many of our people are very ignorant and in any given situation will carry on talking despite someone singing eg I went to an Indian Workers Association even and Deedar Singh Pardesi was singing, and people in the audience just would not shut up despite numerous requests and carried on talking despite him singing. So is this a uniquely POunjabi problem?

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Traditions are best described as habits of the heart. They persist, define and dominate our lives even when they seem to have lost all reason for existence. But, surely, the heart has its reasons of which reason knows not.

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