of the "Same 'Ole Spartans (SOS). I know the Detroit and Lansing water supply is the one in the same. So there is the tie in. The Lions err spartans are one in the sam.

Both have very good years then take a shit the next

Both have "off field" problems

Both have coaching staffs that are less than perfect

Both have leadership that is just plain inept

Both think they are "going places" and "wait until next year"

Both have a few good players that keep peoples interest; only to disappoint later

Both just dont know how to win. Being a winner is a state of mind, its a place in space. Winners will certainly lose a few games but they are always winners. Lions err sparty always complains, always looking for excuses.

That is why I am proud to say that I have been Lions free for 5 years. I go to counciling once a week to help me; but I am a better person for it.

When then CEO (and A2 resident) Bill Ford Jr. decided he was not the right man to lead Ford Motor Company and hired Alan Mullaly to engineer their turn around. You can go even further back to when Henry Ford II bought the Lions for William Clay Ford to keep him away from Ford Motor in the 1960's. Bill Jr. has the humility to actually help the Lions by finding the right person to lead and not be a yes man to him.

and lady, obviously, let's remember that there are Michigan faithful who love the UAW, hate it, and everything in between. Let's keep those opinions reserved for other venues and use MGoBlog for Michigan love, Ohio hate and of course cat pictures.

Lets not forget that there are some people here that hate cats, and some that love cats. I am the owner of 3 dogs who would eat any cat it could, and I still find that photo personally offensive and politically incorrect. Please! Use some common decency when posting your cat pic.

Clueless. The Lions have lost a lot of close games this year with their receiver corps in shambles, and Schwartz is the only coach in 20 years to do anything in Detroit. To fire him would be ridiculous.

Typical delusional Lions fan. This team is an absolute mess and last year was a mirage. If you think this team is headed in the right direction under the current leadership then you deserve this joke of a team.

Yes. For the love of everything. Get us new owners. The Fords are the most incompetent family in the world. I wish I could be a completely stupid billionaire simply because my great grandpa was a genius.

A gross exaggeration of what happened. Bill Ford Jr. had a lot of really solid ideas for Ford that were way ahead of their time (like developing hybrids and getting into the public transportation business). Ford was in a shit spiral and bringing in a first time CEO was probably a really, really awful idea. And Ford himself stood aside in favor of someone with more experience.

The guy's an MIT grad, I'm pretty sure he can figure what it takes to get an NFL team running smoothly.

This isn't based on anything tangible. All of the wealth and power in this state are firmly entrenched in Oakland County, and everywhere outside of Detroit itself in the Detroit area posted growth at the last census. Grand Rapdisites can keep on dreaming, but odds are much better that Southeastern Michigan continues it's evolution into a polycentric urban area ala the Ruhr area of Germany.

From the OP: "Mayhew put this roster together, and has to shoulder as much blame as anyone."

Sure about that? The Fords (as others have noted, the common thread in all the dysfunction of the past fifty years) are legendary for their micromanaging. Don't assume that they weren't calling the shots on some of the picks and roster moves. It has happened before (three straight WR as first round picks, etc.).

Yes, you're right, my entire topic should've been on firing the Ford's. While I completely agree that in the past, ownership has influenced draft choices, see Joe Harrington. But, for the sake of argument, now that Ford Jr. is more involved in the day to day operations, I think every draft since 09 has been Mayhew and company.

You are. NFL owners can't own teams in competing NFL markets, but they can own teams in their own markets and in markets without NFL teams (Paul Allen owns the Seahawks and the Trail Blazers, Tom Benson owns the Saints and the Hornets)

I put the blame on Schwartz not Mayhew. The Lions have playoff level talent (not Super Bowl talent, mind you). There is no excuse for this team to be 4-11 and the amazing ways that they got to that record are mostly on Schwartz. He has no control over his team.

I didn't liked Schwartz in the begining, but after last year I came around to thinking that he might actually be the guy to bring the Lions around to respectability. Instead I sit here in Wisconsin and have to watch the Lions choke away another game against the Packers and have to listen to people bitch about the Lions being dirty.

I'm afraid your imagination is lacking. Lions fans will approve of Saban or Urban if they win. In fact, why would any Lion fans be unhappy to see Urban ditch OSU after one season? Other than among the small contingent that are also OSU fans I think he would be a popular hire.

Why not? If he wins, Detroit would be more than happy to have him. Seems to me we had a LB who personified the franchise for years and was a total buckeye from head to toe plus never let anyone forget it. He was loved and still is for his grit and passion.

Seriously, I guess you are all right. If Urban would dump the Buckeyes after one year, most Michiganders would embrace it. (The Spartan contingent will still hate Saban forever, or at least until that generation dies.)

Great idea, but he would never come. The lions inability to ever pick up a highly regarded head coach makes me believe that our management and ownership really is that bad. No big name ever comes here. Are any of our former head coaches still head coaches on other teams? I guess if you want to revert back to being a coordinator after your years after head coaching then Detroit is the place to come.

People keep saying urban Meyer on the board my ? Is with his so called health issues what more stressful job nfl or OSU. He wouldn't need to recruit or travel much in the nfl which would have to please him. I wonder if he would consider it for the right money?

It's not Schwartz, it's the max contracts of Suh, Stafford, and Johnson combined with Avril's franchise number. Lions had 3 expensive players from the last 3 rookie drafts without the new cap. Oops. It's hamstringing the franchise.

I'm a giants fan so I don't have a horse in this race...but I just don't get the desire to fire a coach a year after the team's first playoff appearance in years. The league reacted and the Lions struggled this year. At the very least Schwatrz deserves one more year (maybe with some coaching changes and a new GM).

Detroit sports fans seem to expect the world every year and overreact when they don't get it. In fact, I remember several people on this board (and several friends) telling me the Tigers would sweep the World Series and when they lost I heard about the significant changes they needed to make. And that's coming from a New York sports fan.

You should come to Cleveland. The sports fans here (especially the vocal ones) are incredibly stupid, impatient, etc. They have no experience with winning and therefore have no idea how it works, how to get there, etc. I moved here in 1995 and the fans dumped on Belichick 24/7. Then the Browns left for Baltimore and Belichick went to New England. Both won Super Bowls while leaving Cleveland behind. It was very telling. 24

I am not really disagreeing with you, but has your franchise won only one playoff game in fifty years? I understand what you are saying about fans being quick to complain and jump ship but when you have had arguably the best running back ever and now one of the best receivers, yet you still can't put together a consistent franchise there has to be something wrong in the offices. We drafted a guy who purposely lined up in the wrong spot. multiple minor violations and run ins with the law. We throw the ball so much more than other teams in the league because we can't establish any resemblance of a run. Idk if Shwartz & Mayhew should be fired now, but they should be on a short leash, especially if these larger issues are not addressed in the off season.

I would usually defend a franchise's "off year" based on all the injuries the Lions have suffered. But, after seeing the kind of talent the Packers have drafted and picked up off waivers the last couple years, and seeing undrafted linemen hold their own week after week, it's obvious the Lions have no clue how to stack a 53 team roster. They are pretty good in their 1-deep, but after that you are one injury away from scrambling to find a starter (this year they started practice squad guys at CB, S, WR, TB and all but for Bell are busts)

Clean house and rebuild the right way, not just promoting a Millen student and picking a rookie head coach.

Get an assistant GM from a recently dominant team, get a proven coach, and will someone please wipe out the entire scouting dept.? Our drafts have sucked. I think we have a talent scout who has been with the team since the 80s.

I would say get rid of the Fords but that's very unlikely unless the old man croaks soon and Jr. takes over which I think would improve the organization somewhat.

A fish rots from the head down. As long as Ford owns this team don't expect any miracles. When I was in high school circa 1980, the team's slogan was "Restore the Roar." I can't believe I'm talking about this 30 years later.

If people really hate the Lions they need to start saying it by closing their wallets not opening their mouths. Owners are business people and don't give a fuck what people say. If they're still paying, all is good in their minds.

You might as well get rid of Schwartz too. Even if he survives this season, next year would be his last if we didn't make the playoffs. No coordinator would come if he knew he might be out of job after one year.

"It'd be hard to blame that lack of regard for the team and the law solely on Schwartz. Of course, Schwartz also is probably the easiest person to blame in this situation." - when discussing discipline issues

If the Fords are disillusioned with the culture in the locker room, then it is not entirely clear that firing Schwartz totally resolves this particular issue, although it is easier to replace the coach and potentially certain members of management than let go of otherwise talented players. For a family that dabbles in a top ten Fortune 500 company, they don't seem to understand this aspect of leading change very well.

Even if you have a roster that is strong enough to at least do respectably in the league, if you feel as if you cannot count on your teammates to keep the team in mind and put the team in a position to win, then even your best and most well-meaning players will be reluctant to give 100%, especially if the issues are allowed to linger.

I have to believe that, despite the head-scratching drafts of the Lions (and these definitely contribute to the lack of depth at key positions), part of the problem is cultural. It might very well be that Schwartz, in the end, is not the person to lead such a charge, but it is something that needs to change or it will likely be the case that anyone who is hired will have more trouble winning consistently in Detroit than they might in other places.

but I disagree and I think that would be giving them a free pass. We want answers!

I do think that the Fords care about the Lions winning. To suggest that they don't is to suggest that they're not even fans of their team. Does an increase in wealth decrease one's interest in the game? Or decrease their desire to see their own team win?

They need to get over themselves and admit this era of management is crap and start fresh there.

I haven't looked at the numbers for the Lions but there are plenty of owners, especially in smaller markets, that are not willing to take a loss on a pro team in order to fund a "championship" payroll. Perhaps Ford is not willing to reduce some of his $1.2B in net worth to fund a Super Bowl caliber team. Enough fans will keep coming at this level to make his hobby profitable while he maintains all the perks.

Think of the Lions as having ownership/management similar to Wisconson's AD/President whereas Dave Brandon, willing to pay top $ to assistant coaches, is more like to Illich (gotta like those Pizza guys)

Clearly Barry didn't think the Lions owernship was willing to do what it takes to field a winning team.

So I guess the question is how much Ford still has to pay Schwartz even if he fires him. And I wasn't paying attention, but Schwartz got a "multi-year" contract extension last summer, so if it's 2 yrs, then he's around through 2014. I'd say Schwartz isn't going away any time soon.

As many have said, the team has done nothing since William Clay Ford Sr. bought the team in '63. Their last championship was in the 50's. It's been a long time but we wont have to wait another 50 years for the team to either be sold or pass to William Clay Jr. Since Jr. seems to be doing a decent job with the car company (I believe he's due some credit for turning it around and for steady leadership through 2008), there's hope he'll do the right thing by either turning the franchise around or selling it to someone who can.

Jr brought in Millen! This family is clueless when it comes to NFL football and nothing will change until there is a new owner. I wish we could pass a law to keep the Ford's Lions out of the state of MI. Just start a new expansion team and have the fan own the team!

I would say that Mayhew has had more hits than misses, but not nearly enough hits as an elite GM in the league. You need at least one more year to get the Millen years behind 'em.

That being said, I believe Swartz needs another year to truly determine if he is a good coach. Their record is much worse than the team is. However, I also thought RR needed one more year, which obviously was dead wrong.

I sure hope I didn't misspell a word, eliciting a handful of ridiculous replys that judge far less than the content of my post.

I'd be looking at Mayhew before Schwartz. How can a guy get away with the weak drafts...Best (a concussion question coming out of college), Titus Young (an attitude question coming out of college) and Broyles (an injury problem coming out of college). How you can you gamble with so many high round draft picks, especially when representing a talent poor organization with little room for error.

Going into this year, I would have thought firing Schwartz for a sub-.500 season would be ridiculous but 7 (8?) straight losses and 0-5 (0-6?) in the division is awful, not matter how strong the NFC North looks. Losing to Houston, Indianapolis, and one each of Minnesota and Green Bay were inexcusable, and the Arizona and Tennessee games were just embarrassing.

Time for new blood, but if Schwartz is fired, I think the Detroit job has to be one of the better ones that will be available this year and with the team that is in place right now (minus the secondary and receivers) is certainly much better than walking into one of the Millen teams.

Interesting point about this being one of the better openings in the NFL this year if Schwartz is fired.

I wonder if Chip Kelly is a possibility. That'd be pretty random but stranger things have happened, and if nothing else it'd be an interesting ride with him at the helm. I have a feeling it'd be one of those things that'd either go really well or really terribly (aka, not any worse than the rest of our lifetime), so really there's only potential upside.

The only question is whether our offensive personnel would fit his system, but there's certainly a lot of talent for him to work with on offense.

... If it's one of the better jobs, but we draft poorly and have bad ownership, what makes it good?

At any rate, you haven't been watching if you think that losing to three of the best teams on our schedule (Green Bay, Houston, Indianapolis) was inexcusable. JJ Watt has a legitimate case for MVP, Rodgers is moving out of All-Pro status and into legendary company, and Luck has a good case for RotY. We don't have anyone playing that well except Megatron, and it is difficult to win games from WR. It's actually pretty hard to win games from any single position - can't run or throw if you can't win the line of scrimmage - but WR needs nearly everything else to work.

Arizona looks a lot worse now with QB5 and 6 running for cover, but they also beat New England.

after all the previous 31 losing seasons under Ford ownership. It doesn't fundamentally matter whether Schwartz or Mayhew are fired; if they are, the Fords will hire two more incompetent underachievers in their place. If the Fords had been in charge of the U.S. military in 1862, they'd have kept McClellan in place and forced Grant out of the service.

I'm not used to not watching the Lions on Turkey day. You do realize that the end of the Ford era for the Lions means the end of the Lions always hosting a game on Thansgiving? The elder Ford's pledge to have the Big 3 pull advertising during NFL games is all that's keeping this tradition for us. For that reason alone, it's almost worth keeping the Ford's around.

He's a hothead and a mediocre coach. Especially if the Lions are able to get Bill O'Brien, Bill Cowher, Nick Saban, Andy Reid, Chip Kelly, or anyone in the ballpark of those names, they need to let Schwartz go, and also learn how to make character as much or more of a priority as talent. The Lions are really making it hard to root for them at this point.

No successful college coach (Chip Kelly, Nick Saban, Bill O'Brien) would leave a secure job to coach the Lions. They may be interested in an NFL job, but not with the Lions.

Also, when has it ever NOT been hard to root for the Lions? You act like this is unexpected or an aberration. Last year's playoff appearance was an aberration. The default expectation is that the Lions will be a train wreck. Frankly, I'm surprised when the Lions beat anyone.

It has always been hard to root for the Lions, but this year seems to be the worst, with all of the off-field transgressions and Titus Young proving that he is a massive idiot. But it doesn't mean that we shouldn't WANT it to be different. I'd like to think that someday it might be possible to root for them whole-heartedly. As long as the Fords own the Lions, probably unlikely in reality, I guess.

Both the GM and Coach should be shown to door for an 8 game losing streak. The lions do have talent at QB and WR. Also, the DL on paper is as talented as any in the NFL. LB are average. DB are poor...but still this team should have finished with 7 or 8 wins. This is a big drop off from their lucky season last year but there is no hope for this bunch going forward.

Here is my reasoning why Schwartz should not be fired. Going into the 2012 draft the Lions had some huge needs. In my opinion they needed a shut down corner, another safety, a run blocking guard, and a pass rushing DE. Instead they drafted an offensive tackle with their 1st pick and a injured wide receiver with their 2nd pick. This was puzzling since Backus and Burlson were not going anywhere. The only thing I could think of is that Mayhew was conceding 2012 and playing for 2013. Both Burlson and Backus will be gone and then the picks make sense.

Now we can argue whether playing that far ahead is a good idea. If the consensous is that is a terrible idea then we can talk about Mayhew being fired. The bigest problem with the Lions in my opinion is horrible play in the secondary. 3 10+ 2nd half leads were lost and multiple other games lost because we did not have a corner who could cover a dead opposum. That was not Schwartz's fault.

Maybe Schwartz is a terrible coach after all for other reasons. But he can only work with the players given to him by the GM. And yes, the Fords have no clue how to be competent owners of a NFL franchise.

Schwartz will be around at least another year since Ford gave him a contract extension through 2015. It seems like the GM has their salary cap all screwed up, so I don't think they will be able to sign any FA DB and FS. Another problem is that any one who is good probably would not want to play for a losing team. So, it will take years to draft a full defensive back field, a RB and new OL. It is possible this team will reach .500 next season but looking at some of the bone headed coaching decision, Schwartz will be lucky to win 6 or 7 next season.

Clearly every coach has been influenced by the GM. They must not feel in control. I have no other reason to assume why our lack of discipline has existed for years. I get players screw up but wow are these guys a mess. Fire every single decision maker in the building. When we took broyles over a solid DB that sealed it for me. Done with this franchise.

They can fire all of the coaches and GM's they want, but until they fire the owners, nothing good is ever going to happen for the Lions. Though he didn't own it until 1964, WCF has been running the team since 1958. He took a team had won three NFL Championships in the 1950's and turned it into the worst franchise of the last fifty years.

Even Tampa Bay had seven good years and won a Super Bowl. The only thing the Lions have shown themselves to be able to do consistently and effectively is break the hearts of everyone who has ever been a Lions fan.

I'd avoid the Lions like the plague. Since Ford assumed total ownership in '64, not a single solitary full-time head coach that Ford has hired has ever gone on to be a HC for any other NFL team. Considering the number of head coaches in the NFL since 1964 who have been with more than one team, that's a remarkable achievement (Dick Jauron coached the Bills after he left the Lions, but he was an only an interim Lions HC for five games in 2005 after Mariucci was booted).

Put it this way: Detroit is a coaching graveyard. That's where your head coaching career goes to die. When you're done coaching the Lions, your reputation is so damaged that nobody is going to think of you as anything other than an assistant.

OMe on now, you know that's what you're secretly hoping for. Bama destroys ND, Saban goes to Detroit, Bama falls apart, MIchigan rises to the top of the college football world.

Or...

Bama destroys ND, Saban goes to Jacksonville to revive the Jags, Chip Kelly leaves Oregon and comes to Detroit to bring the no-huddle spread to Detroit and Stafford throws for 6,000 yards and Calvin gets o 3,000 receiving yards and the Lions win the Super Bowl because no one can keep up.

Can Millen be fired twice? Mayhew has done an OK job, but Millen left this roster completely barren of depth. This is going to take like 10 years to build something with any sort of depth. Now, with all the offense they have drafted, they still need WRs and RBs.