Stratics VeteranStratics Legend

Instead of script miners I see now characters recalling in to a silent bank and withdrawing a small random amount of gold (one or 2 k around). Recalling away and coming back, doing the same a minute or so later.
What are they doing?
*Salute*
Olahorand

Stratics VeteranStratics Legend

Instead of script miners I see now characters recalling in to a silent bank and withdrawing a small random amount of gold (one or 2 k around). Recalling away and coming back, doing the same a minute or so later.
What are they doing?
*Salute*
Olahorand

Click to expand...

From the brief description I get the impression it might be an old script. Even before I stopped playing there had been players using scripts like that for quite some time. Not even much complicated to run, I would imagine.

Stratics VeteranAlumniStratics Legend

Stratics Veteran

I believe there was a post about this same strange activity a couple months ago. While no one really knew what the chars were actually doing, people suspected it had something to do with the library turn-in. I guess you could always go to the library and see if the char shows up there and if so then what person they are contributing too. Otherwise if you suspect they are running a script page a GM. I hear they have become more active in busting unattended macroing.

I believe there was a post about this same strange activity a couple months ago. While no one really knew what the chars were actually doing, people suspected it had something to do with the library turn-in. I guess you could always go to the library and see if the char shows up there and if so then what person they are contributing too. Otherwise if you suspect they are running a script page a GM. I hear they have become more active in busting unattended macroing.

Click to expand...

Like I said, there are scripts that enable you to go around to mage shops and buy blank scrolls. From what I have seen of them you recall around and then back to the bank every few minutes to get more gold.

There are also a few that let you go around to npc vendors and buy up axes to donate to the library. I think the idea is that those end up being a more cost efficient way to get certain rewards.

And, as was already said, the same ones that do blank scrolls also let you buy up regs.

I am not saying that is what they are doing, or that there aren't more legal things that could be going on. But it sounds like that is what's going on.

Stratics VeteranStratics Legend

I believe there was a post about this same strange activity a couple months ago. While no one really knew what the chars were actually doing, people suspected it had something to do with the library turn-in. I guess you could always go to the library and see if the char shows up there and if so then what person they are contributing too. Otherwise if you suspect they are running a script page a GM. I hear they have become more active in busting unattended macroing.

Click to expand...

Something I never understood, is whether the game engine may or not have a detecting system which automatically rings a bell in the Game Masters room whenever a player, any player, keeps doing the same activity over and over and over and over and over with the moreless same time intervals.

GMs could then step in, do an investigation and ban the scripter if they found sufficient suspicion.

I have the impression that such automated detection, at least when I used to play years back, was not active because at least in one occasion I remember that me and other players monitored a player doing that kind of repetitive activity for hours and across several days.
Several players said to have even paged Game Masters to investigate the activity and yet, we kept seeing the same activity keeping going and going and going and going and going and going some more.

Eventually i got tired of all those kind of things and stopped playing the game.

Personally, I think that stopping players cheating should be a #1 priority before anything else. Before new content, before add ons, anything.

Nothing should be as important as stopping any and all possible ways of cheating in a game.

Stratics VeteranStratics Legend

Might also be running a script to build up the reg spawns on vendors, that is a time consuming pain in the arse task.

Click to expand...

And what does that possibly mean if I may ask ?

I think I can agree that in the game there may be boring and repetitive tasks but, to my opinion, this is not the issue.

Either we accept the idea that scripting is needed in the game, and therefore allowed, or not.

If we think the game needs players running scripts to get boring and repetitive things done well, then ALL players should have access to this advantage, not only some players.

The real issue, IMHO, is having some players use a time saving advantage and some other players not using it and, therefore, being at a gross disadvantage.

So, to my humble opinion, the policy of the Company owning the game should either be doing anything to stop scripting for good in the game OR, should this not be possible, whatever the reasons, then allow ALL players to script in the game by having the game client be able to run scripts.

The worst situation, IMHO, is the current one we have where neither scripting is stopped for good nor all players are allowed to use it.

The current situation only leaves a great disparity among players who script and players who do not script.

I think I can agree that in the game there may be boring and repetitive tasks but, to my opinion, this is not the issue.

Either we accept the idea that scripting is needed in the game, and therefore allowed, or not.

If we think the game needs players running scripts to get boring and repetitive things done well, then ALL players should have access to this advantage, not only some players.

The real issue, IMHO, is having some players use a time saving advantage and some other players not using it and, therefore, being at a gross disadvantage.

So, to my humble opinion, the policy of the Company owning the game should either be doing anything to stop scripting for good in the game OR, should this not be possible, whatever the reasons, then allow ALL players to script in the game by having the game client be able to run scripts.

The worst situation, IMHO, is the current one we have where neither scripting is stopped for good nor all players are allowed to use it.

The current situation only leaves a great disparity among players who script and players who do not script.

Not right, IMHO.

Click to expand...

No worries KR is a step to this not only does it replace uoassit but it mimicks some scripts that cant be done whiout another 3rd party program. The sa client will be another more improved step in this. In time ea clients will replace all other 3rd party programs that is if players dont complain about 2d not able to do what KR can do and SA will be able to do.

Stratics Veteran

Oh NO another post about how you all hate scripters on uhall surprise surprise
Lets get some actual questions and real topics posted for a change i am sick of all the NERF or SCRIPT posts that keep happening!

You know what I see that makes me sad..... every shore, everywhere in Sossaria is littered with boats..... dozens and dozens of them... what are they doing? What all do they have in their holds?? My guess is contraban... dupped stuff, and scripter bods.... that's my guess... makes you sad.

Seems to me the number of honest players is dwindling to an all time low as the cheaters and scammers grow.... and seems to me everyone is out to make a quick buck.... they don't care how they ruin things for everyone else... they don't care that the DEV team has to take drastic measures to counter them... ruining things for everyone else... (ei: random ore and wood)...

Just fills me with an overwhelming saddness when I look at them.... screen after screen after screen of boats... I think it's high time the master of disaster took a peek inside the holds of a few of them... and set the shores ablaze with burned boats..... Put an end to them on every shore. That's just my opinion... but I'm sure I'm not alone.

You know what I see that makes me sad..... every shore, everywhere in Sossaria is littered with boats..... dozens and dozens of them... what are they doing? What all do they have in their holds?? My guess is contraband...

Stratics VeteranStratics Legend

Just fills me with an overwhelming saddness when I look at them.... screen after screen after screen of boats... I think it's high time the master of disaster took a peek inside the holds of a few of them... and set the shores ablaze with burned boats..... Put an end to them on
every shore. That's just my opinion... but I'm sure I'm not alone.

Click to expand...

I may well be wrong, but I have a feeling that this status of things (wide spread scripting and cheating) also happens because of a lack of sufficient checks.

If more manpower (Game Masters) was trained and put to investigate suspicious activities and ban the scripters and the cheaters perhaps the problem would not be as wide spread.

Also, though I enjoy playing the 2D client I am really upset at the decision not to terminate support to it for when Stygian Abyss will come out.

It would have been a good chance to help end this scripting plague and instead, it will be a lost occasion. Too bad.

Stratics Veteran

If that is so why do I keep reading that much of the problem with scripting is because of the 2D client ??

It is not right then ?

Possibly, but it comes at a cost, unfortunately.
Tracking a number of players takes time and time cost money.

A solution relying on a client that would block scripting, automatically, would be quite less expensive than having to rely on personell that has a cost.

Does Ultima Online have enough revenues to allow for extensive Game Masters enforcement to go after scripters and cheaters ??

Click to expand...

The reason why people have that misconception is because a particular scripting program currently runs on 2D only.

If UO stops supporting the 2D client and is made to only run in KR, scripters will create a new scripting program for KR. It might stop the scripters for a while, but it's like an arms race. Just like people keep creating programs for WoW and find ways to stealth around punkbuster.

As long people feel the need to cheat to get an advantage, they will find a way to do it. I can understand why they blame the 2D client, but if they look at the problem deeper, they will realise it's not the root of the problem and stopping support for the 2D engine is not the correct way.

As to increased GM staff, yes, it will likely cost time and money. 2 sides to this - UO definitely is generating enough revenue to support it. But EA at the moment seems to be reluctant on improving GM support.

However, they do not really need much extra resources. Starting small - consistent bannings only 1 cheater a day will curb 99% of the cheating activities. And this must be publicized.

This serves 2 purposes - instills confidence from the player base that GMs are indeed doing something and discourages would be cheaters from using cheats. At the moment, cheaters think they can get away with it because you rarely hear someone getting banned.

Same rationale whenever you read in the papers once criminals have been caught. If the police do not tell the public that they have caught the criminal, the public will think the police is not doing anything. Others comtemplating a crime will be enboldened to do so if they believe that there will be no reprisals.

Edit: Oh, adding a stealth detection engine into the UO 2D client to detect cheat programs is perfectly do-able, and I'd be surprised if they have not done it or thought of doing it. GMs would then have a much easier time to determine if the player was indeed cheating too.

Blocking it outright would work too, but reveals their hands immediately and allows the cheaters to work around the block.

Still, it boils down to letting cheaters know that they will be punished if they cheat. And not decommisionning the 2D client to stop cheating. It's like chopping off an arm to stop a fungul infection, instead of using medication to kill the fungus. The arm is gone forever, and the fungus will find a way to infect your other arm if you don't use medication.

I read in another post that one of the big reasons scripting in 2d is much easier than KR or 3d was that the code or summing was leaked at T2A, allowing for easy finding of...stuf(sorry im not a comp whizz).

The 2D client, isnt going(as such) but SA(enhanced 2d withn a KR twist from what i gather) will eventually be the sole client(already been stated) must say im looking forward to it, always played in 2d and until SA always will...but the screenies so far look SWEET!

The reason why people have that misconception is because a particular scripting program currently runs on 2D only.

If UO stops supporting the 2D client and is made to only run in KR, scripters will create a new scripting program for KR. It might stop the scripters for a while, but it's like an arms race. Just like people keep creating programs for WoW and find ways to stealth around punkbuster.

As long people feel the need to cheat to get an advantage, they will find a way to do it. I can understand why they blame the 2D client, but if they look at the problem deeper, they will realise it's not the root of the problem and stopping support for the 2D engine is not the correct way.

As to increased GM staff, yes, it will likely cost time and money. 2 sides to this - UO definitely is generating enough revenue to support it. But EA at the moment seems to be reluctant on improving GM support.

However, they do not really need much extra resources. Starting small - consistent bannings only 1 cheater a day will curb 99% of the cheating activities. And this must be publicized.

This serves 2 purposes - instills confidence from the player base that GMs are indeed doing something and discourages would be cheaters from using cheats. At the moment, cheaters think they can get away with it because you rarely hear someone getting banned.

Same rationale whenever you read in the papers once criminals have been caught. If the police do not tell the public that they have caught the criminal, the public will think the police is not doing anything. Others comtemplating a crime will be enboldened to do so if they believe that there will be no reprisals.

Edit: Oh, adding a stealth detection engine into the UO 2D client to detect cheat programs is perfectly do-able, and I'd be surprised if they have not done it or thought of doing it. GMs would then have a much easier time to determine if the player was indeed cheating too.

Blocking it outright would work too, but reveals their hands immediately and allows the cheaters to work around the block.

Still, it boils down to letting cheaters know that they will be punished if they cheat. And not decommisionning the 2D client to stop cheating. It's like chopping off an arm to stop a fungul infection, instead of using medication to kill the fungus. The arm is gone forever, and the fungus will find a way to infect your other arm if you don't use medication.

Simple Solution (At least in Fel):
Change the way murder counts are reported. I almost always gather resources in Fel and I hardly go a day without running into a scripter. I kill them when I have a count to spare but you all know how long those take to recharge. The problem here is that 99% of the counts I receive for doing this are reported 4 or 5 hours after the fact. A simple time limit for reporting a murder would do wonders for community enforcement against scriptors. I think 10 minutes would be more than generous. I know that whenever I'm murdered I report the moment it happens. Why does some other guy need 5 hours? Just an idea....

Simple Solution (At least in Fel):
Change the way murder counts are reported. I almost always gather resources in Fel and I hardly go a day without running into a scripter. I kill them when I have a count to spare but you all know how long those take to recharge. The problem here is that 99% of the counts I receive for doing this are reported 4 or 5 hours after the fact. A simple time limit for reporting a murder would do wonders for community enforcement against scriptors. I think 10 minutes would be more than generous. I know that whenever I'm murdered I report the moment it happens. Why does some other guy need 5 hours? Just an idea....

Click to expand...

Actually thats an awesome idea, i dont think im ever afk in fel(apart from in my house)longer that 5mins(mans gta pee!). If i go for...uhum...something more substantial i always go to a safe location.

Simple Solution (At least in Fel):
Change the way murder counts are reported. I almost always gather resources in Fel and I hardly go a day without running into a scripter. I kill them when I have a count to spare but you all know how long those take to recharge. The problem here is that 99% of the counts I receive for doing this are reported 4 or 5 hours after the fact. A simple time limit for reporting a murder would do wonders for community enforcement against scriptors. I think 10 minutes would be more than generous. I know that whenever I'm murdered I report the moment it happens. Why does some other guy need 5 hours? Just an idea....

Click to expand...

Eh... if it's in Felucca, just lure monsters onto the scripter. That's legal to do in Felucca and no counts. I agree that 5 hours is way too long, but there are other ways to take care of that problem.

The 2D client, isnt going(as such) but SA(enhanced 2d withn a KR twist from what i gather) will eventually be the sole client(already been stated)

Click to expand...

Wanna bet?

When 3rd Dawn was announced, everyone popped up and said that it was going to soon be the 'sole client'. I still play 2D. When KR was announced, everyone popped up and said that it was going to soon be the 'sole client'. I still play 2D. When SA was announced, everyone popped up and said that it was going to soon be the 'sole client'. When *insert name of next 2D killing client, everyone popped up and said that it was going to soon be the 'sole client'.

I can only speak for myself but unless they come up with a client that I LIKE as much as 2D, I will only use 2D. Will it happen ever? Maybe. Maybe not.

As for all the people thinking that removing 2D will get rid of cheating, I will add on my opinion which is the same as what has been said already. Don't hold your breath. As has been mentioned, WoW was a very advanced client and it still has rampant cheating. Everytime they add something to remove it, it pops back up again.

Simple Solution (At least in Fel):
Change the way murder counts are reported. I almost always gather resources in Fel and I hardly go a day without running into a scripter. I kill them when I have a count to spare but you all know how long those take to recharge. The problem here is that 99% of the counts I receive for doing this are reported 4 or 5 hours after the fact. A simple time limit for reporting a murder would do wonders for community enforcement against scriptors. I think 10 minutes would be more than generous. I know that whenever I'm murdered I report the moment it happens. Why does some other guy need 5 hours? Just an idea....

Click to expand...

Pointless. And I don't mean to disparage your opinion at all. But I happen to know that all that would do is make script makings add a simple 'Say yes to Murder Count gump' command in their scripts.

The 2D client, isnt going(as such) but SA(enhanced 2d withn a KR twist from what i gather) will eventually be the sole client(already been stated) must say im looking forward to it, always played in 2d and until SA always will...but the screenies so far look SWEET!

Click to expand...

I think it was Draconi that said the only way 2d would go away was if 80% (?) or more of the playerbase made the switch to the new client. Considering how many diehard 2d fans there are, I don't expect the balance to ever reach the point that 2d would be retired.

Stratics VeteranStratics Legend

Simple Solution (At least in Fel):
Change the way murder counts are reported. I almost always gather resources in Fel and I hardly go a day without running into a scripter. I kill them when I have a count to spare but you all know how long those take to recharge. The problem here is that 99% of the counts I receive for doing this are reported 4 or 5 hours after the fact. A simple time limit for reporting a murder would do wonders for community enforcement against scriptors. I think 10 minutes would be more than generous. I know that whenever I'm murdered I report the moment it happens. Why does some other guy need 5 hours? Just an idea....

Click to expand...

Not entirely sure but I would imagine that it is a possibility that, at least in theory, the script could foresee such an incident and report the murder when this happen, automatically.

I see duping as bad but scripting helps everyone that needs resources because it keeps the prices in reason

Click to expand...

I disagree with this very much. Duping= Scripting= Cheating= Bad for UO. I disagree with your whole premise, and it is a vary narrow and self-centric viewpoint.

Scripting hurts the whole economy of UO. It floods the economy with resources that even an industrious person who wants to hunt resources can't compete with. IF fair prices were paid for the fair gathering of resources and not scripters' prices, then more people would take the time to find the frostwood.

Stratics Veteran

I disagree with this very much. Duping= Scripting= Cheating= Bad for UO. I disagree with your whole premise, and it is a vary narrow and self-centric viewpoint.

Scripting hurts the whole economy of UO. It floods the economy with resources that even an industrious person who wants to hunt resources can't compete with. IF fair prices were paid for the fair gathering of resources and not scripters' prices, then more people would take the time to find the frostwood.

Click to expand...

Duping doesnt equal scripting. What happens with a dupe is that a person founds a way to copy whatever they want and keep doing it untill they have whant they want to sell or it gets fixed.

I used to mine I had this very nice UOAssist macro setup to mine and smelt for me in one macro. I did it untill the changed all locations to random ore locations and lumberjacking spots. It was nice to get whatever I need and then play the game some more. Now you got to mine/lumberjack for days some times to get what you want. So thats why I stopped and other people have done the same because its all random.

I KNOW what duping is. My point is that duping and scripting resources are cheating, and that hurts UO.

Click to expand...

Unfortunatly, apart form leather farming, the way they have changed the ore locations has basically made it so we are at the point we "need" scripters. Seriously who is going to script for a week to find the valorite, or whatever wood they need to fill a bod/burn a kit.

I honestly think a better solution would have been to randomise the spawn of ore weekly. That way the honest player would be able to mine locations mark rune blah blah.

Scripting would be so much more involved they would either need to change there locations weekly or run the risk of only mining iron.

I KNOW what duping is. My point is that duping and scripting resources are cheating, and that hurts UO.

Click to expand...

Aside from saying 'cheating hurts UO' why don't you explain how it really does? Back in the day people claimed that things like UOA were 'cheating' and that it 'hurt UO'. Then it became 'legal' and suddenly it 'helped UO'. The only thing that changed was that it became called 'legal'. Now, the devs have started putting functionality into the game that mimics what UOA can do. And, that is said to be 'helping UO'.

Does it hurt UO that a person can play the game for 8 hours while another person can only play for 1? Hmmm. They have more of a chance to get the high end drops. They can farm more gold. They can farm more resources. And they can do more quests to get more chance for more runics. Doesn't that hurt UO?

If EA turned around tomorrow (and we know it won't happen) and said that *insert name of third party scripting tool* was now legal, will you jump up here and start proclaiming that that is 'helping UO'?

You know what hurts UO? Devs putting in things that ENCOURAGE people to script. You want a runic hammer or a runic kit? You have to collect BoDs till you get just the right combination of small and large bods that give you a chance for what you want. Then, you have to farm for months to get enough leather or ingots to be able to complete those BoDs. You ever tried farming valorite ore these days? I don't do BoDs for that very reason. Its mind numbing. You want a runic saw or fletching kit? You have to farm for months to get enough wood to be able to do enough quests to have even a decent chance to MAYBE get one.

..
I honestly think a better solution would have been to randomise the spawn of ore weekly. That way the honest player would be able to mine locations mark rune blah blah...

Click to expand...

Oh, I agree that the randomization was a huge mistake on EA's part. No matter how many times they've "explained" their reasoning, it still doesn't wash. But that STILL DOES NOT justify scripting resources. We'll probably never agree on that part though.

Unfortunatly, apart form leather farming, the way they have changed the ore locations has basically made it so we are at the point we "need" scripters. Seriously who is going to script for a week to find the valorite, or whatever wood they need to fill a bod/burn a kit.

I honestly think a better solution would have been to randomise the spawn of ore weekly. That way the honest player would be able to mine locations mark rune blah blah.

Scripting would be so much more involved they would either need to change there locations weekly or run the risk of only mining iron.

Click to expand...

Unless they make mining 'fun' to do for hours at a time, there will always be people that script it instead. There are scripts out there now that use 10 or more runebooks full of mining spots. And they also keep track of what you mine so if you go to a spot and its iron you can set it up to move to the next spot until you find the ore you are looking for.

Randomized ore did nothing to cut down on scripting. Adding Heartwood and BoDs did everything to increase scripting. Sad but true.

Stratics Veteran

Would you want to spend hours upon hours looking for frostwood and then in the end find nothing ?

So you dont find any forstwood but there is some on a vendor. Are you going to pay there price they set and you know thats going to be higher then what it is now ?

I see duping as bad but scripting helps everyone that needs resources because it keeps the prices in reason

Click to expand...

Scripting is terrible especially because of the way LJ works now, and here is why:

If there was NO scripting, only legitimate (IE people sitting at the monitor, chop, chop, chop) choppers would be trying for those high end woods. Because the amount of time compared to the return on wood is enormous, less people would chop wood even though wood prices would soar. After all, none of the nice woods are needed in bulk - if you want to do a turn in it's easier to get valorite or dragon scales or whatever. Only a little bit is needed for wood item enhancing. So there is no consistent need for a large amount of colored wood.

Eventually the complaints on the board would have devs realize that something needed to be adjusted, and once again LJ would become a reasonable resource gathering skill, and not the crap shoot/time suck it currently is. So as it is, scripters do keep the price of the resources down, but in doing so lessen the complaints that would get the system overhauled, which would benefit legitimate players and buyers alike. Making it easier to get special woods would create a surplus (or at least have the potential to make frostwood a viable library/museum turn in again).

Stratics Veteran

Stratics Veteran

Oh, I agree that the randomization was a huge mistake on EA's part. No matter how many times they've "explained" their reasoning, it still doesn't wash. But that STILL DOES NOT justify scripting resources. We'll probably never agree on that part though.

Click to expand...

Randomization was an incentive for scriptors to pay for extra accounts to script. More scripting accounts = More money for EA.

Stratics is the oldest continually running MMORPG Fansite on the Internet. Founded in 1997 Stratics has served the Ultima Online Community for 18 years. We strive to provide the most complete social experience for Ultima Online players.