I would like to preface this post by disclosing that I'm a lifelong hunter, not particularly squeamish but fully committed to the humane dispatch of any animal; I also eat what I kill, and won't kill what I won't eat.

With that out of the way, most of us are aware that racehorses that fail to perform satisfactorily on the track or show a profit to its connections may face unpleasant futures.

Far too many young, healthy thoroughbreds are consigned to the slaughterhouse pipeline daily, guilty of no offense other than low speed figures. The slaughter pipeline begins with the sale of the horse either at auction, where it is purchased by a kill buyer, or directly to the kill buyer himself. Most U.S. tracks have written policies prohibiting the knowing sale of a racehorse to a kill buyer, complete with sanctions for the owner or trainer. Yet many tracks ignore enforcement of their own rules. (Looking straight at you, Delta Downs/Boyd Gaming.)

The second stop in the pipeline is the so-called "kill lot," a holding facility that collects horses until a full trailerload is possible. These kill lots offer inadequate food, shelter, and water, and no attempt is made to segregate the weak from the strong, the grown from the fillies and colts. The stronger horses eat, the weaker ones don't. Often the horses are consigned to stand in mud up to their knees, barely able to move. Stressed-out horses often damage each other, sometimes seriously, through bites or kicks; the victims receive no treatment.

The final step is inside a packed trailer for hundreds of miles to the slaughterhouse itself. There are no active horse slaughterhouses in the U.S., but it is still legal to export horses for slaughter to Canada and Mexico. Canada has regulations in place to help ensure that slaughter methods are humane, to the extent that is possible in such circumstances. Mexico has regulations too, but they are not enforced. And Mexico is where the majority of our discarded racehorses end up.

There is legislation pending in Congress that would prohibit the export of horses for slaughter. The House version is HR 113. The Senate version is S1706. Both bills are designated the SAFE act; officially the purpose of the bill is to prevent horse meat from being used for human consumption due to the drugs typically administered to horses. Regardless of Act's intent, it will serve the dual purpose of shutting down the slaughter pipeline.

I'm fully aware that there are 20,000 thoroughbreds foaled annually, and that only a fraction of them will be successful on the track. Fair enough. But the industry needs to start a conversation about the treatment and ultimate futures of the equine athletes that don't quite measure up.

The following was written by a person who I believe is not a native English-speaking person. I made a couple of punctuation and grammatical corrections, but nothing whatsoever to add or detract from the content.

A brief description of a horse slaughterhouse in Mexico: (https://www.change.org/p/extreme-cruelty-to-horses-at-mercado-san-bernabe-enforce-existing-federal-laws-in-mexico)

“… The horse shakes her head frantically when the door of the killing box is closed and trapped within it. A worker buries, in her back and around her neck, a small, sharp knife, seven, eight, nine times. She, with her eyes wide, frantically lowers and raises her head while the worker stabs her again and again. On the tenth stroke of the knife she falls to the ground, bloodied and paralyzed, but still alive. She lays there for two minutes before being hoisted by her leg and lifted into the air, hung
upside down to be bled, slaughtered in the midst of terrible pain, fully conscious and terrified … “

It is my understanding that the "killing box" is merely a narrow pipe chute, like all horse vets use. And that being an assembly line operation, the next horse in line is watching what is happening in front of him.

Respectfully, I ask your support for the pending legislation, if you're so inclined. A quick email or phone call, asking that the bills be brought to the floor and stating your position, would help.

Pretty sickening stuff, but something that needs to be presented front and center to everyone involved if successful action is to be taken.

ultracapper

02-23-2018, 02:06 PM

Unreal. Just sickening. I want to post something and I don't even know what to say.

Vinnie

02-23-2018, 02:32 PM

What a compelling and poignant post. As horrible as it is to read such things, thank you so much for your post Mulerider.

cutchemist42

02-23-2018, 09:04 PM

Yep, it is a part of something I struggle with, so I do quite a lot of donations to the various rescues. I would say 60% of my overall charity is towards horse rescues.

Have heard that about 40% of the annual foal crop goes to slaughter, but part of me recognizes not every thoroughbred born is intended for racing. Some are born to be food. i think the stat is that 1-in-8 horses that actually end up racing go to slaughter.

Its also a problem for all horse sports, thoroughbreds aren't the only horses going to slaughter. There are thoroughbreds going to slaughter that come from other disciplines as well.

I also follow a lot of what Alex Brown says about it as well as read his book Missionville which is basically about life at Penn National.

People say, ‘we have all these rescues now, you don’t need to do that.’ But that’s not true. There’s not enough room in a rescue to take all these Thoroughbreds. And, unfortunately, a lot of these Thoroughbreds are broken down because of a claiming system that allowed that to happen. They can’t re-home a lot of them. They need to go to a sanctuary, where they can retire forever, and when they’re 5 or 6 years old, that’s a lot of time.

Yours is an unflinching look at the racing industry, but in many respects, you paint a sympathetic picture of many of the people working in it - especially those scrabbling to make a living within the sport. When I read the book, I was reminded of something owner Maggi Moss once told me, about how racing could be headed back to its ‘Sport of Kings’ roots, when only those with large disposable incomes could afford to own racehorses.

When you live paycheck to paycheck, it encourages bad behavior by some. You’ve got to do right by you and your family. Sometimes, that’s by doing wrong in other things. But that’s an interesting debate: should horse racing be an elitist sport or not? You could argue that’s what it is in this country, in the UK. Here, horseracing is a hobby. The majority of people will not make money out of racing in the UK, not as owners. No way.

VigorsTheGrey

02-23-2018, 10:48 PM

All in the pursuit of livelihoods for horsemen. Profits for businessmen. Entertainment for players. Humans are fleshy balls of contradictions...liberty, equality, fraternity, faith, hope and love...and KILL KILL KILL...you see these THINGS (animals) are not really FEELING beings are they...?

Neither are cows, pigs, chickens, fish...Horses are not sentient beings are they...? Horses are not children of god like the rest of mankind....there is a big difference...sure just keep telling ourselves the same ol stories...while we wolf another filet mignon down...the human culture is ANIMAL HELL, face it...and we are their tormentors...slaughterhouses are worse than nazi and soviet concentration camps...

...I personally cannot face the truth of it..I like my steaks as much as the other guy....it’s all about exploitation, not even survival for mankind anymore...man is a vicious animal despite all the culture, the rationalizations...

Lemon Drop Husker

02-23-2018, 11:16 PM

Horse racing is a cruel and shrewd business even at its very greatest of levels.

It is a tough business in which very few make money, yet billions are spent annually.

One of my personal favorite tracks to wager upon has been getting lambasted lately due to the sending of numerous horses to these kill lots. Anybody immune to bottom level racing tries to shy away, or shake an angry finger at such practices.

However at these bottom level tracks, there are real people trying to scratch out a living. Most don't make much of a living at all, and have to make tough decisions such as getting what they can from the horses they have.

We'll never hear of the superstars of the sport with such practices, as they simply shelve off their lesser horses by dropping them so far down the claiming ranks that they become somebody elses's problem. And those horses eventually end up at tracks like Delta Downs, Retama Park, Turf Paradise, Fonner Park, what have you.

It isn't cheap to even own, train, feed, and run horses at the very bottom of levels. Vet fees, vaccinations, food, jockey fees, entrance fees, simple day to day costs. What do you do with a barn of 20 horses in which the majority of them are running in $20K or less races? Quit, or try to make ends meet as best you can?

When you have a $4K claimer that can't hit the board and will never be claimed with zero breeding value, what are you supposed to do as an owner? Keep eating the cost? Make him a family pet? You can only have so many horse pets before they break you as well.

As with most problems, it all starts at the top, and then the shit rolls downhill.

Mulerider

02-23-2018, 11:43 PM

LDH, I have a strong hunch you're talking about Delta, and the kill lot is Thompson's in Pritkin, La.

Two days ago yet another Delta horse showed up at Thompson's kill lot. It was a 4-year-old named ALECIA'SLITTLEBOY, with two lifetime starts. He last raced at Delta on Jan. 13 and finished 4/10. His last workout was on Jan. 26.

Equibase:
Owner: Ella Williams
Trainer: George Williams

I'm pretty sure that Thompson's gave somewhere in the neighborhood of $300-$500 for the horse.

A rescue organization (the same one that rescued 11 Delta horses from Thompson's in January) was made aware of the situation, and contacted Thompson's today to inquire about the "bail" needed to acquire the horse. They were promptly told the horse would cost them $1,250 and that the money must be received by 5 p.m. this Sunday, as that's when ALECIA'SLITTLEBOY is scheduled to ship to slaughter.

I emailed Delta yesterday to notify them about a possible violation of their no-slaughter policy. I do not expect a reply from Delta; they haven't replied to one yet. Which begs the question: why pretend to have a policy if you're not going to attempt to enforce it? Just come right out and say it: we don't give a rat's ass about the horses. I'd respect them more if they were honest about it.

Lemon Drop Husker

02-23-2018, 11:53 PM

LDH, I have a strong hunch you're talking about Delta, and the kill lot is Thompson's in Pritkin, La.

Two days ago yet another Delta horse showed up at Thompson's kill lot. It was a 4-year-old named ALECIA'SLITTLEBOY, with two lifetime starts. He last raced at Delta on Jan. 13 and finished 4/10. His last workout was on Jan. 26.

Equibase:
Owner: Ella Williams
Trainer: George Williams

I'm pretty sure that Thompson's gave somewhere in the neighborhood of $300-$500 for the horse.

A rescue organization (the same one that rescued 11 Delta horses from Thompson's in January) was made aware of the situation, and contacted Thompson's today to inquire about the "bail" needed to acquire the horse. They were promptly told the horse would cost them $1,250 and that the money must be received by 5 p.m. this Sunday, as that's when ALECIA'SLITTLEBOY is scheduled to ship to slaughter.

I emailed Delta yesterday to notify them about a possible violation of their no-slaughter policy. I do not expect a reply from Delta; they've haven't replied to one yet. Which begs the question: why pretend to have a policy if you're not going to attempt to enforce it? Just come right out and say it: we don't give a rat's ass about the horses. I'd respect them more if they were honest about it.

What would you say if they needed the $300 to buy groceries for their children?

While I'm just making that up, and have no idea who these two are, it is a very real situation at tracks like Delta.

They aren't running on 8, 7, or even 6 figure budgets, many are just trying to make ends meet from month to month.

And no, I don't want to excuse the practice, but lets also realize why it is happening.

thaskalos

02-24-2018, 12:13 AM

LDH, I have a strong hunch you're talking about Delta, and the kill lot is Thompson's in Pritkin, La.

Two days ago yet another Delta horse showed up at Thompson's kill lot. It was a 4-year-old named ALECIA'SLITTLEBOY, with two lifetime starts. He last raced at Delta on Jan. 13 and finished 4/10. His last workout was on Jan. 26.

Equibase:
Owner: Ella Williams
Trainer: George Williams

I'm pretty sure that Thompson's gave somewhere in the neighborhood of $300-$500 for the horse.

A rescue organization (the same one that rescued 11 Delta horses from Thompson's in January) was made aware of the situation, and contacted Thompson's today to inquire about the "bail" needed to acquire the horse. They were promptly told the horse would cost them $1,250 and that the money must be received by 5 p.m. this Sunday, as that's when ALECIA'SLITTLEBOY is scheduled to ship to slaughter.

I emailed Delta yesterday to notify them about a possible violation of their no-slaughter policy. I do not expect a reply from Delta; they haven't replied to one yet. Which begs the question: why pretend to have a policy if you're not going to attempt to enforce it? Just come right out and say it: we don't give a rat's ass about the horses. I'd respect them more if they were honest about it.

So...the slaughterhouse paid $300-$500 for the doomed horse...but they wanted $1,250 from the rescue organization. Nice people to do business with. :ThmbUp:

Mulerider

02-24-2018, 12:29 AM

What would you say if they needed the $300 to buy groceries for their children?

If they were in such dire straits, I would suggest to them that they contact one of the many rescue organizations directly, and explain their financial situation. The rescues would prefer that they do that. Cut out the a**hole middleman like Thompson, who plays the emotional card on his Facebook page to inflate the price. These rescue organizations do a pretty fine job of finding homes for these horses.

That January cluster was a huge black eye for Delta, as some pretty big names in the industry donated to rescue those horses: Gary Stevens, Mike Smith, Mattress Mack, Ahmed Zayat, etc. One would think Delta would want to prevent another such PR disaster, but that's apparently not the case. The horses just keep showing up at Thompson's, an unpleasant stop on their way to Mexico.

PointGiven

02-24-2018, 12:41 AM

I am not justifying races horses at slaughter by saying yearly over 120,00 American horses are sent to slaughter. That's the low end. Quick math tells you even if every one of the 20,000 born each year are sent ( and we know that doesn't happen) it's not 10%. Racing does not keep the slaughter house doors open. Yet every time horse slaughter is mentioned in public life, we are pointed to. We have a perception problem. This hurts new growth/ more money.

We have other problems. Accessibility, availability, to name a few. These hurt growth which in turn means money. And like most problems, it takes money. But those aren't being addressed. Everyone wants their little fiefdoms.

Until they are, horses will keep paying with their lives.

thaskalos

02-24-2018, 12:42 AM

If they were in such dire straits, I would suggest to them that they contact one of the many rescue organizations directly, and explain their financial situation. The rescues would prefer that they do that. Cut out the a**hole middleman like Thompson, who plays the emotional card on his Facebook page to inflate the price. These rescue organizations do a pretty fine job of finding homes for these horses.

That January cluster was a huge black eye for Delta, as some pretty big names in the industry donated to rescue those horses: Gary Stevens, Mike Smith, Mattress Mack, Ahmed Zayat, etc. One would think Delta would want to prevent another such PR disaster, but that's apparently not the case. The horses just keep showing up at Thompson's.

It wasn't such a black eye for Delta...because incidents like these seldom get reported. If it weren't for you...we'd never hear about any of this. Very sad...

VigorsTheGrey

02-24-2018, 12:45 AM

So...the slaughterhouse paid $300-$500 for the doomed horse...but they wanted $1,250 from the rescue organization. Nice people to do business with. :ThmbUp:
The price might have something to do with how much they get from the slaughterhouse per pound of horse...I wonder what the going rate is on something of this nature, or if it done by the ton/ trailer load...? Once horses are in the kill cue, l’m sure that they are looked upon as one would with other livestock commodity...still $1250 seems like a lot to want/ ask in this situation...agree with you.

VigorsTheGrey

02-24-2018, 12:59 AM

I wonder what the actual end-use and end-users are...and how many total per year...it doesn’t seem like something that much money could be made, given the numbers compared to something like cattle meat processing numbers...I wonder if horse meat is considered a delicacy and sold high-end to Asians or something or if the end-product price is lower than beef...?

Is it possible to dry up the demand somehow or just make horse products banned internationally?

PointGiven

02-24-2018, 01:00 AM

I don't believe they are treated the same, thus the horrible conditions, and lack of food like say cattle on a feed lot. Simply because they have so little in them, they are not worth spending on feed.

VigorsTheGrey

02-24-2018, 01:09 AM

I don't believe they are treated the same, thus the horrible conditions, and lack of food like say cattle on a feed lot. Simply because they have so little in them, they are not worth spending on feed.

So maybe it really is the worst case with horse meat being sold bottom dollar...one old timer at Los Al told me that when horses die at the track, they often become sustenance for wild animals like big cats in zoos...so it would be interesting to know what the end-user path really is after they are processed in Mexico and Canada....? Maybe the meat gets sold back to American Zoos, or other Zoos worldwide...it is probably not wasted in any event...more sad facts of life...

Lemon Drop Husker

02-24-2018, 01:10 AM

I wonder what the actual end-use and end-users are...and how many total per year...it doesn’t seem like something that much money could be made, given the numbers compared to something like cattle meat processing numbers...I wonder if horse meat is considered a delicacy and sold high-end to Asians or something or if the end-product price is lower than beef...?

Is it possible to dry up the demand somehow or just make horse products banned internationally?

I'd wager $5,000 that you have eaten horse meat at some point in your life.

While I can't prove it, I feel extremely comfortable making that statement.

VigorsTheGrey

02-24-2018, 01:19 AM

I'd wager $5,000 that you have eaten horse meat at some point in your life.

While I can't prove it, I feel extremely comfortable making that statement.

I agree with you...and not making light of things here but I feel certain as well that horse meat is consumed by humans regularly in other countries mainly...there is more than some truth of why ‘burritos” are called that after “burro” no doubt...it wouldn’t surprise me at all to learn that once horses are slaughtered in Mexico that fresh meat is just sold locally in border towns, would it you...?

Mulerider

02-24-2018, 01:29 AM

I...it wouldn’t surprise me at all to learn that once horses are slaughtered in Mexico that fresh meat is just sold locally in border towns, would it you...?

Vigors, Mexico slaughtered 128,000 horses in 2016, the vast majority for export. The consumption of horse meat is not a normal cultural practice in Mexico, though I'm sure there's some.

VigorsTheGrey

02-24-2018, 01:34 AM

Vigors, Mexico slaughtered 128,000 horses in 2016, the vast majority for export. The consumption of horse meat is not a normal cultural practice in Mexico, though I'm sure there's some.

So who are they exporting it to and for what purpose...? A good portion might be for Zoos no...?

Lemon Drop Husker

02-24-2018, 01:38 AM

So who are they exporting it to and for what purpose...? A good portion might be for Zoos no...?

Zoos. Pet food. Fast food restaurants.

Mulerider

02-24-2018, 01:47 AM

So who are they exporting it to and for what purpose...? A good portion might be for Zoos no...?

No, I think it's for human consumption. I'm no expert on the horse meat business, but there's this:

The article lists the some of the customers as "Russia, Hong Kong, Egypt, Japan, Vietnam, Kazakhstan and Belgium."

I believe, though, that the EU has banned Mexican horse imports due to the high level of drugs.

This topic has a very deep rabbit hole. The USA in 2017 produced 12 million metric tons of red meat for human consumption, 20% of the world total. This issue is: why should we feel any different about horses than cattle? This has alway been a very difficult issue for me...I’m not a vegetarian, but I can really understand why some folks are...

PointGiven

02-24-2018, 02:10 AM

As a society we have decided what is acceptable and what isn't. cows yes, cats no.

Horses are something we have said loud and clear we do not want to see on or menus and in our markets.

The rabbit hole goes the other way as well. Whole isles in stores are devoted to products to rid us of vermin and bugs.

Anyone who has horses usually goes to great lengths to avoid or dispatch opossums.

I to am a meat eater that while it isn't for me, I get vegetarian. Commercial farming leaves a lot to be desired. So does the system in general. Even if you think you are making good choices, you often aren't.

thaskalos

02-24-2018, 03:00 AM

This topic has a very deep rabbit hole. The USA in 2017 produced 12 million metric tons of red meat for human consumption, 20% of the world total. This issue is: why should we feel any different about horses than cattle? This has alway been a very difficult issue for me...I’m not a vegetarian, but I can really understand why some folks are...

We want to have our cake...and eat it too. We support the meat-producing industry, even though we know how horribly the animals are treated before and during slaughter...but we like thinking that we are sensitive "animal-lovers". And we patronize the horse racing industry, even though we are well-aware of the plight of the horses during their racing careers and afterwards...but we declare our "admiration" for these majestic animals, and we are enraged whenever we see an article such as the one originating this thread.

We are against the torture of these animals...and we try to ignore the fact that these atrocities wouldn't occur without our "support".

Mulerider

02-24-2018, 08:28 AM

This topic has a very deep rabbit hole. The USA in 2017 produced 12 million metric tons of red meat for human consumption, 20% of the world total. This issue is: why should we feel any different about horses than cattle? This has alway been a very difficult issue for me...I’m not a vegetarian, but I can really understand why some folks are...

A cow, pig, or goat in the U.S. is slaughtered much more humanely than a horse in Mexico. And that's the problem I have with this whole business.

I suspect, but have no proof, that Mexican horse slaughterhouses, by their barbaric methods, are simply accommodating their largest customers. Asian horse meat consumers believe that an adrenaline rush before the death of an animal improves the flavor of the meat. You should read how cats are slaughtered in China. It's worse than the horse treatment in Mexico.

VigorsTheGrey

02-24-2018, 11:51 AM

We want to have our cake...and eat it too. We support the meat-producing industry, even though we know how horribly the animals are treated before and during slaughter...but we like thinking that we are sensitive "animal-lovers". And we patronize the horse racing industry, even though we are well-aware of the plight of the horses during their racing careers and afterwards...but we declare our "admiration" for these majestic animals, and we are enraged whenever we see an article such as the one originating this thread.

We are against the torture of these animals...and we try to ignore the fact that these atrocities wouldn't occur without our "support".
There is no rational reason for our current treatment of livestock...there REALLY are no existential differences between the species that would warrant denying them the same Bill of Rights that we enjoy...I suspect that our bellies bias our brains in this matter...years from now, maybe centuries, our descendants will view our current actions as atrocious, and will asked themselves “how could THEY ever have thought this way...”

Mulerider

02-24-2018, 12:48 PM

UPDATE 2/24/18:

ALECIA'SLITTLEBOY was rescued from Thompson's kill lot this morning, via a donation from a race horse owner named Matt Schera. Mr. Schera was alerted to the situation by Dina Alborano, who runs the rescue organization www.icareihelp.com, and who was responsible for the rescue of the Delta horses in January.

A quick Equibase search reveals that Mr. Schera is a multiple graded stakes winning owner, the last being the 2017 San Marcos Stakes (G2) with his horse Isotherm.

Well done, Mr. Schera.

thaskalos

02-24-2018, 01:28 PM

Great News!

Don't organizations like icareihelp deserve a little of that slots-generated money?

Mulerider

02-24-2018, 02:01 PM

Great News!

Don't organizations like icareihelp deserve a little of that slots-generated money?

Yes. And if it were done fairly and proportionately, Boyd Gaming would have to reprogram its slots at Delta for a higher "takeout" to cover their rescue obligations.

On her Twitter page Ms. Alborano is advocating a national "de-registration" program for all thoroughbreds coming off the track, saying that policy would help a lot. I confess I don't understand that issue.

https://twitter.com/icareihelp?lang=en

thaskalos

02-24-2018, 02:20 PM

Yes. And if it were done fairly and proportionately, Boyd Gaming would have to reprogram its slots at Delta for a higher "takeout" to cover their rescue obligations.

On her Twitter page Ms. Alborano is advocating a national "de-registration" program for all thoroughbreds coming off the track, saying that policy would help a lot. I confess I don't understand that issue.

https://twitter.com/icareihelp?lang=en

How much money goes uncollected by bettors every year at the racetracks across the country? And, how much money in breakage is unfairly collected that rightfully belongs to the bettors? If the horse racing industry really had a conscience...then a petition would be made to allocate all these funds for the benefit of these unfortunate animals. This money isn't the track's, nor the state's. It belongs to the PLAYERS...and it should be put to better use than it is now. :ThmbDown::ThmbDown:

Tom

02-24-2018, 03:18 PM

Great News!

Don't organizations like icareihelp deserve a little of that slots-generated money?

Yes.
Far more so than any track does.
And the tracks should be kicking in too, say, a a 2% fee from every MSW race run, and 5% from every maiden claimer.

DGroundhog

02-24-2018, 04:37 PM

How much money goes uncollected by bettors every year at the racetracks across the country? And, how much money in breakage is unfairly collected that rightfully belongs to the bettors? If the horse racing industry really had a conscience...then a petition would be made to allocate all these funds for the benefit of these unfortunate animals. This money isn't the track's, nor the state's. It belongs to the PLAYERS...and it should be put to better use than it is now. :ThmbDown::ThmbDown:

What racing rule or law states it belongs to the PLAYERS?

Tom

02-24-2018, 04:43 PM

What racing rule or law states it belongs to the PLAYERS?

The players say so - you know the CUSTOMERS.
The people that put it in the pools in the first place.
You thought it grew on trees?

thaskalos

02-24-2018, 04:43 PM

What racing rule or law states it belongs to the PLAYERS?

Yes...you are right. We have great rules and laws in this game. :ThmbUp:

DGroundhog

02-24-2018, 05:26 PM

No, I know that there are rules and laws in place that specifically designate who has ownership of those monies.

I was curious what rule or law stated it belonged to the players.

thaskalos

02-24-2018, 05:30 PM

No, I know that there are rules and laws in place that specifically designate who has ownership of those monies.

I was curious what rule or law stated it belonged to the players.

Do you know how "those monies" are currently used? Wouldn't it be better if they were used to fund the "retirements" of these horses?

DGroundhog

02-24-2018, 05:41 PM

It is different for every track. I know of one track that will honor any outs ticket from the day they opened if it has not been cashed. In that case, it could be argued that all the uncashed money is still available for the players with winning tickets - even though it is very rare a ticket older than a couple of years will ever get brought in for redemption.

Everyone feels bad for the horses who get hurt or don't have what it takes to run. We also feel bad for the jockeys that get hurt and don't have adequate insurance to cover their bills.

It is easy to say 'somebody should pay for that, but it shouldn't be me'.

thaskalos

02-24-2018, 05:54 PM

It is different for every track. I know of one track that will honor any outs ticket from the day they opened if it has not been cashed. In that case, it could be argued that all the uncashed money is still available for the players with winning tickets - even though it is very rare a ticket older than a couple of years will ever get brought in for redemption.

Everyone feels bad for the horses who get hurt or don't have what it takes to run. We also feel bad for the jockeys that get hurt and don't have adequate insurance to cover their bills.

It is easy to say 'somebody should pay for that, but it shouldn't be me'.

The horseplayer isn't saying "somebody should pay for that, but it shouldn't be me". The horseplayer pays for EVERYTHING!

Andy Asaro

02-24-2018, 06:33 PM

If everyone stopped betting on horse racing it seems like a lot of problems would be solved including this one.

DGroundhog

02-24-2018, 06:46 PM

The horseplayer isn't saying "somebody should pay for that, but it shouldn't be me". The horseplayer pays for EVERYTHING!

One way of looking at it - but you are using selective reasoning.

Who paid you? Are they then paying for everything? Who paid them?

cutchemist42

02-24-2018, 06:46 PM

So...the slaughterhouse paid $300-$500 for the doomed horse...but they wanted $1,250 from the rescue organization. Nice people to do business with. :ThmbUp:

Yeah the kill lots really tug at the heart of the rescue people. Its a scummy practise.

Anyway, even if a horse of any breed is bred from the start to only be food, the actual slaughter and transportation of horses compared to other animals is horrific. I mean, at least design carriers for horses instead of using cattle trailers.

thaskalos

02-24-2018, 06:51 PM

One way of looking at it - but you are using selective reasoning.

Who paid you? Are they then paying for everything? Who paid them?

I can't see your point in this thread. If something needs to be done to stop the shameful practice of shipping these racehorses to Mexico by the thousands...then, who in your opinion should initiate this move...and who should PAY for it?

Or do we just leave things as they are?

DGroundhog

02-24-2018, 07:12 PM

I can't see your point in this thread. If something needs to be done to stop the shameful practice of shipping these racehorses to Mexico by the thousands...then, who in your opinion should initiate this move...and who should PAY for it?

Or do we just leave things as they are?

I'm not sure there IS a solution to that. There is only a limited number of uses for a race horse. Even if you donate to an organization that rescues race horses they won't all be rescued. You can't just endlessly ship them all off to a nice grassy retirement farm.

If I were forced to present a solution to the problem I would place a limit on the number of horses that can be bred in a given year. Only breed enough horses that can be placed into use and retirement.

Of course, that would significantly harm the industry as a whole - but at least we could potentially eliminate the problem.

thaskalos

02-24-2018, 07:26 PM

I'm not sure there IS a solution to that. There is only a limited number of uses for a race horse. Even if you donate to an organization that rescues race horses they won't all be rescued. You can't just endlessly ship them all off to a nice grassy retirement farm.

If I were forced to present a solution to the problem I would place a limit on the number of horses that can be bred in a given year. Only breed enough horses that can be placed into use and retirement.

Of course, that would significantly harm the industry as a whole - but at least we could potentially eliminate the problem.

Fine...but you said earlier that it is easy to say 'somebody should pay for that, but it shouldn't be me'. All this "new money" has come into this sport via the racinos that the racetracks are now operating...and no move has yet been made to "improve the product" in any way. If something is to be done for the horse-slaughter problem, who should initiate it...and who should pay for it?

I pointed to the breakage and to the uncashed tickets, because these are funds that are WRONGFULLY taken away from the bettors...and you were quick to point out to me that these monies are taken away from the players "legally". Who pays to help with the horse-slaughter problem then? Should the takeout go up a few more points...so the problem could be aleviated without the racing industry having to directly pay for it?

DGroundhog

02-24-2018, 07:47 PM

Fine...but you said earlier that it is easy to say 'somebody should pay for that, but it shouldn't be me'. All this "new money" has come into this sport via the racinos that the racetracks are now operating...and no move has yet been made to "improve the product" in any way. If something is to be done for the horse-slaughter problem, who should initiate it...and who should pay for it?

I pointed to the breakage and to the uncashed tickets, because these are funds that are WRONGFULLY taken away from the bettors...and you were quick to point out to me that these monies are taken away from the players "legally". Who pays to help with the horse-slaughter problem then? Should the takeout go up a few more points...so the problem could be aleviated without the racing industry having to directly pay for it?

If I were to institute my example of limiting the breeding you would need to purchase a license to breed a thoroughbred. Most of that money would go to the 'rescue program' (overhead and salaries would be paid - remainder to the rescue program).

Any remaining money needed to cover the expenses would be taken from the money wagered. Takeouts would increase (possibly dramatically).

You might claim that the increased takeout is 'taking money from the horseplayer' - but just like any transaction, when you provide the money in exchange for something it is no longer your money. You have no say in how it should be spent.

You can claim that breakage and uncashed tickets are 'wrongfully' taken from the horseplayer - but if it were to be returned I could just as easily claim the money was being 'wrongfully' distributed to the horse players.

thaskalos

02-24-2018, 07:52 PM

If I were to institute my example of limiting the breeding you would need to purchase a license to breed a thoroughbred. Most of that money would go to the 'rescue program' (overhead and salaries would be paid - remainder to the rescue program).

Any remaining money needed to cover the expenses would be taken from the money wagered. Takeouts would increase (possibly dramatically).

You might claim that the increased takeout is 'taking money from the horseplayer' - but just like any transaction, when you provide the money in exchange for something it is no longer your money. You have no say in how it should be spent.

You can claim that breakage and uncashed tickets are 'wrongfully' taken from the horseplayer - but if it were to be returned I could just as easily claim the money was being 'wrongfully' distributed to the horse players.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree here. IMO...the breakage and the confiscation of the uncashed ticket proceeds is an act of outright THIEVERY...and this shameful practice is allowed to go on only because the industry considers its customers to be nothing but addicted fools.

cutchemist42

02-25-2018, 01:07 PM

I guess one of my main thoughts is that I feel any owner should be able to afford the $250 or whatever it costs to humanely euthanize a horse after they dont need it.

Selling the horse for $200 and sending them down that excruciating slaugther pipeline not designed for them is sickening. None of the slaughter pipeline is adequte for horses, from transportation down to the actual slaughter.

How can anyone justify that difference in costs?

cj

02-25-2018, 01:13 PM

You might claim that the increased takeout is 'taking money from the horseplayer' - but just like any transaction, when you provide the money in exchange for something it is no longer your money. You have no say in how it should be spent.

Horseplayers pay enough. They shouldn't have to pay one more cent to pay for this unless they choose to do so through donations, as many do. Part of being an owner is being responsible for the horse. If you can't do right by the horse, don't own horses.

woodbinepmi

02-25-2018, 02:37 PM

Horseplayers pay enough. They shouldn't have to pay one more cent to pay for this unless they choose to do so through donations, as many do. Part of being an owner is being responsible for the horse. If you can't do right by the horse, don't own horses.

HEAR HEAR!

luisbe

02-25-2018, 06:16 PM

If everyone stopped betting on horse racing it seems like a lot of problems would be solved including this one.

Unless is an addiction.

Inner Dirt

02-25-2018, 07:15 PM

Vigors, Mexico slaughtered 128,000 horses in 2016, the vast majority for export. The consumption of horse meat is not a normal cultural practice in Mexico, though I'm sure there's some.

I am starting to get concerned about what I was eating at the upper level clubhouse buffet at Agua Caliente back when they had live horse races. I used to dump so much hot salsa on my food I could have been eating anything.

BrentT

02-26-2018, 11:38 PM

I race at Delta, Evd, and Fair Grounds year round.
I would never, ever, in a million years sale a horse to one of the bums from Thompsons, I don't and most owners over there don't need that 3-500 they are paying..... But some still do it, it's very sad.

Problem is: The racing commission can do nothing about it technically, if someone sales a horse to someone, then they send it to thompsons or another kill buyer the racing commissions hands are tied BECAUSE it(Horse Slaughter) is not Illegal in the U.S...... So complaining to the racing commissions is NEVER going to hel as sad as it is, you have to complain to your local congresmen/women. Perhaps we could get a big petition started and I'm sure we could get millions of signatures for it.

However I did read a good comment in this thread and I will post fliers at the tracks in Louisiana. I will post for them that want to sale to call these horse rescues first and let them buy for the same price so they can re-home these animals. I'm going to get in contact with some of the rescues to see if I can put thier info on the fliers to post at tracks and hopefully this helps.

It's very very nasty what these kill pens are doing.
They are the scum of the earth.

Is anyone interested in writing up or starting a petition that we can get signatures for to present to congress? Electronic signatures somehow as it would go viral then. I just have no idea how to do all this.

BrentT

02-26-2018, 11:59 PM

This goes with the comment above, I could not edit.

** Edit **
This is far fetched but I may ask if theres a way that every horse that runs is charged $1 (I mean theres pony & Jock fees on every race thru these accts $20 & $70 min) on the owners account. That would bring in around 1k per week which could be used for rehoming, or paying the owners like $500 to send to certain rescues instead of kill buyers/auctions.

Fager Fan

02-27-2018, 02:42 PM

This goes with the comment above, I could not edit.

** Edit **
This is far fetched but I may ask if theres a way that every horse that runs is charged $1 (I mean theres pony & Jock fees on every race thru these accts $20 & $70 min) on the owners account. That would bring in around 1k per week which could be used for rehoming, or paying the owners like $500 to send to certain rescues instead of kill buyers/auctions.

Far fetched? Owners are already having far more than $1 taken out of their accounts for every race they run at a majority of the tracks for this purpose. Trainers and jockeys, and plenty more who make their livings off the horse, are required to pay none.

Mulerider

02-27-2018, 03:00 PM

Far fetched? Owners are already having far more than $1 taken out of their accounts for every race they run at a majority of the tracks for this purpose. Trainers and jockeys, and plenty more who make their livings off the horse, are required to pay none.

If Delta owners are having to pay into such a fund, they're getting screwed. Like the horses.

Fager Fan

02-27-2018, 03:20 PM

If Delta owners are having to pay into such a fund, they're getting screwed. Like the horses.

The Delta owners aren't. They're not among "most tracks". In any event, the amount you specified is far too little. Much more is needed. If you're paying only $1 a start for this, you should expect as much as $1 gets you, which is a candy bar.

cutchemist42

02-27-2018, 03:48 PM

Are owners so desparate they cant afford to euthanize an unwanted horse?

Mulerider

02-27-2018, 03:56 PM

The Delta owners aren't. They're not among "most tracks". In any event, the amount you specified is far too little. Much more is needed. If you're paying only $1 a start for this, you should expect as much as $1 gets you, which is a candy bar.

I didn't specify anything. Brent did. If it were up to me, I'd institute a one half of one percent (0.005) transaction fee on every component of the industry. From Tapit's $300,000 stud fee down to the $1,000 stud; from the breeder's initial sale of the foal to the pinhooker; from the pinhooker elsewhere, every time the horse changes hands privately or through a claim; then I'd apply the fee to purses, on-and-off track handle. I'm guessing close to $80 million annually could be raised for aftercare, which, in my neck of the woods, would buy a lot of hay, oats, and vet maintenance for the horses that could not be re-homed or re-purposed.

This, of course, is a pipe dream and could never be accomplished without a central governing body.

Mule

AltonKelsey

02-27-2018, 04:28 PM

Not a bad idea. Most (95%? just a wild guess) of the money paid over 100-200k is totally thrown away on horses that will never come close to breaking even, so a small additional tax would hardly be noticed.

Maybe tax only very high priced sales , since those folks seem anxious to toss money away.

cj

02-27-2018, 04:29 PM

Are owners so desparate they cant afford to euthanize an unwanted horse?

As sad as that sounds, it is a much better option than sending them to these kill pens.

Mulerider

02-27-2018, 04:35 PM

As sad as that sounds, it is a much better option than sending them to these kill pens.

CJ, correct me if I'm wrong (a good possibility), but I've read that some rescue organizations perform what are called "compassion pulls." I take that to mean that the horse is purchased to be humanely euthanized rather than sent to Mexico.

BrentT

02-27-2018, 04:58 PM

If Delta owners are having to pay into such a fund, they're getting screwed. Like the horses.

Owners are not paying into any fund like this. Not in Louisiana or Kentucky that I’m aware of and I run in both spots. It would be good if they were

BrentT

02-27-2018, 04:59 PM

Far fetched? Owners are already having far more than $1 taken out of their accounts for every race they run at a majority of the tracks for this purpose. Trainers and jockeys, and plenty more who make their livings off the horse, are required to pay none.

Yes, far fetched to get a racing commission on board to do anything, I’m not talking about the amount. And $1 or $2 a start would go a long long way, it’s much better than ZERO that is given now. That’s a lot of races a year, including quarter horses in the state.

It would be a way to get these horses to rescue groups instead of kill pens, I’m not saying for the commission to take care of them for eternity, just the time to get em to the rescues. The rescue groups do a wonderful job of getting them rehomed.

cutchemist42

02-27-2018, 07:57 PM

CJ, correct me if I'm wrong (a good possibility), but I've read that some rescue organizations perform what are called "compassion pulls." I take that to mean that the horse is purchased to be humanely euthanized rather than sent to Mexico.

Yep its true. I folliw a few of them on FB and some are pulled knowing they cant be rehabbed.

Just remember these horses are being shipped to facilities and in trailers not designed for them. Also remember that there is a lot of fraid on signing off that these horses are drug free and fit for human consumption. Its scary thinking what other countries are eating trusting the killpens that the horses are drug free.

cutchemist42

02-27-2018, 07:59 PM

As sad as that sounds, it is a much better option than sending them to these kill pens.

They are choosing $250 from killbuyers over the $350 for the vet to euthanize them.

Basically, I think if we are going to transport horses for slaughter, at least do it better. Other animals have facilities designed for them. The same should be done for horses.

The pictures of some horses after transportation is sad....

cj

02-27-2018, 08:31 PM

If any major network did an investigation on this and it made it to television, it would be a major black eye on the sport. Imagine a 30 for 30 on it. Tracks that do nothing like Delta are playing with fire. The sad thing is the public won't care which track... just that it is horse racing.

Fager Fan

02-28-2018, 02:49 PM

If any major network did an investigation on this and it made it to television, it would be a major black eye on the sport. Imagine a 30 for 30 on it. Tracks that do nothing like Delta are playing with fire. The sad thing is the public won't care which track... just that it is horse racing.

"We're starting one area at a time," Keith said. "Louisiana has the most need, so we're starting there.'

Mule

PointGiven

02-28-2018, 10:08 PM

A very big tip of the cap to him.

Mulerider

03-01-2018, 09:03 AM

A very good column by Mr. Haskin that goes into greater detail of NTWO's plan of action. A trip by the group has already been made to Louisiana, which is deservedly the focus of their initial efforts.

A few of NTWO's supporters -- including Rosie Napravnik -- made a trip to Dominique's Livestock Auction in Baton Rouge on auction day. Sure enough, they witnessed Delta racehorses, still wearing racing plates, unloaded from trailers. The description of the treatment these horses received is not pleasant to read. The group actually bid on and rescued several of them; not surprisingly, they were bidding against Jacob Thompson, of Thompson's Kill Lot fame.

The article is pretty long, but I think this group might actually have a chance to bring about positive change.

Mule

cutchemist42

03-01-2018, 09:50 AM

If any major network did an investigation on this and it made it to television, it would be a major black eye on the sport. Imagine a 30 for 30 on it. Tracks that do nothing like Delta are playing with fire. The sad thing is the public won't care which track... just that it is horse racing.

What would be worse publicly, sending them to kill lots or euthanize them?

Anyhow, I actually asked about that idea a while ago in a thread which I couldnt find. I basically asked how a Blackfish-esque documentary would impact horse racing? That movie basically killed an industry.

cutchemist42

03-01-2018, 10:01 AM

A very good column by Mr. Haskin that goes into greater detail of NTWO's plan of action. A trip by the group has already been made to Louisiana, which is deservedly the focus of their initial efforts.

A few of NTWO's supporters -- including Rosie Napravnik -- made a trip to Dominique's Livestock Auction in Baton Rouge on auction day. Sure enough, they witnessed Delta racehorses, still wearing racing plates, unloaded from trailers. The description of the treatment these horses received is not pleasant to read. The group actually bid on and rescued several of them; not surprisingly, they were bidding against Jacob Thompson, of Thompson's Kill Lot fame.

The article is pretty long, but I think this group might actually have a chance to bring about positive change.

Mule

Its sad knowing how inflated the kill lots are making the cost of rescue. Capitalism at its ugliest...

cj

03-01-2018, 10:14 AM

What would be worse publicly, sending them to kill lots or euthanize them?

Anyhow, I actually asked about that idea a while ago in a thread which I couldnt find. I basically asked how a Blackfish-esque documentary would impact horse racing? That movie basically killed an industry.

Kill lots. At least euthanization is considered humane. Obviously neither is ideal.

Parson

03-05-2018, 11:26 AM

Owners are not paying into any fund like this. Not in Louisiana or Kentucky that I’m aware of and I run in both spots. It would be good if they were

Once again, I do not post often, but I would like to clarify. attached is a statement from Churchill Downs on one of our first time starters. She did not hit the board that day, but she did receive some starter money of 120.00 that day. We had to pay Albarado 70.00 in Jockey fees, KHRC 20.00 for the administration of the race day lasix, and 5.00 to the Aftercare Alliance.

We have not ran in LA because of various reasons. There is a chance that we run later this month, so I cannot say about that jurisdiction. Here in KY it is mandatory to contribute with each start to this fund.

Parson

03-05-2018, 11:51 AM

Let me correct my statement above, I cannot say it is mandatory in KY. I just know we are charged that fee not only at CDX, but also KEE, ELP and KD. We have not run at TPX because we are either in FL or LA for the winter months.

BrentT

03-06-2018, 07:37 PM

Once again, I do not post often, but I would like to clarify. attached is a statement from Churchill Downs on one of our first time starters. She did not hit the board that day, but she did receive some starter money of 120.00 that day. We had to pay Albarado 70.00 in Jockey fees, KHRC 20.00 for the administration of the race day lasix, and 5.00 to the Aftercare Alliance.

We have not ran in LA because of various reasons. There is a chance that we run later this month, so I cannot say about that jurisdiction. Here in KY it is mandatory to contribute with each start to this fund.

You are correct
I do see it on my KY bill now. Just not on La. which does not do it.

I didn't pull up the horsemans account and look, just looked in my booklet I keep everything in and I missed writing that down.

Good for KY.

Mulerider

03-09-2018, 08:44 PM

Last weekend of the meet at Delta, and FIFTEEN of their horses were found in Thompson's Kill Lot today.

Delta Downs is a real piece of work.

thaskalos

03-09-2018, 09:32 PM

Last weekend of the meet at Delta, and FIFTEEN of their horses were found in Thompson's Kill Lot today.

Delta Downs is a real piece of work.

Is there a place where we can uncover the CONNECTIONS of these unfortunate horses? This type of information shouldn't be kept hidden...IMO; it should be shouted from the RAFTERS.

Is there a place where we can uncover the CONNECTIONS of these unfortunate horses? This type of information shouldn't be kept hidden...IMO; it should be shouted from the RAFTERS.

Thask, that very course of action is being discussed at the icareihelp Twitter page. I think all these Delta horses have lip tattoos, so it should be pretty easy to trace back to the owners.

That said, the owners and trainers of two Delta kill lot horses in recent months were identified and publicly posted on the aforementioned site; to my knowledge Delta took no action even when provided with the names of the connections. Delta certainly never responded to my email politely asking for an update on any punitive action.

I just sent an email to the Investigations division of the Louisiana Racing Commission. We'll see if I get a response. I won't hold my breath.

Mule

Mulerider

03-09-2018, 10:01 PM

Thanks for posting that Haskins column, Thask. The "Dina" he mentions, Dina Alborano, runs www.icareihelp.com
(http://www.icareihelp.com)
A few weeks ago I donated a small amount to rescue a Delta horse from Thompson's Kill Lot. His name was Ole Doc.

Ole Doc is six years old. In his career he earned $102,485. He was perfectly healthy when he was sentenced for slaughter. Dina raised enough money, bought him from Thompson's, and he's doing well and looking good in a new permanent home.

Last recorded connections:

Doris Hebert, trainer
Robert J. Esponge, Jr., owner

thaskalos

03-09-2018, 10:07 PM

The thought of 2-year-old horses running around in kill lots sickens me to the point where I am ashamed of myself for having supported this game for the last 37 years. This isn't the "Sport of Kings"...this is an OUTRAGE. These poor horses are being discarded as if they were a worn-out deck of cards in some gruesome poker game...and the tracks don't give a damn even as they sit on the casino profits that these unfortunate horses help them collect...while pretending that they have "anti-slaughter" rules in effect on their premises.

Utterly despicable...IMO. :puke:

thaskalos

03-09-2018, 10:12 PM

Thanks for posting that Haskins column, Thask. The "Dina" he mentions, Dina Alborano, runs www.icareihelp.com
(http://www.icareihelp.com)
A few weeks ago I donated a small amount to rescue a Delta horse from Thompson's Kill Lot. His name was Ole Doc.

Ole Doc is six years old. In his career he earned $102,485. He was perfectly healthy when he was sentenced for slaughter. Dina raised enough money, bought him from Thompson's, and he's doing well and looking good in a new permanent home.

Last recorded connections:

Doris Hebert, trainer
Robert J. Esponge, Jr., owner

I will contact icareihelp myself...and do what I can to support this great cause. What is a better feeling than to know that you've helped to save a life?

Mulerider

03-10-2018, 08:06 AM

Nine more Delta horses found at Thompson's Kill Lot in a separate holding pen, bringing the total there to 24, bound for slaughter in 48 hours. The nine segregated horses are marked "Direct Ship," meaning direct ship to Mexican slaughterhouses without being advertised for sale on Thompson's Facebook page. Whoever sold them to Thompson's doesn't want to be traced.

Delta is simply giving the middle finger to those of us who'd like to see Delta uphold its so-called "no-slaughter" policy.

Despicable management and leadership at Delta and Boyd Gaming. And since the Director of Racing at Delta, Chris Warren, is also the DofR at Evangeline, I expect we will see more of the same when EVD opens.

cutchemist42

03-10-2018, 07:15 PM

If you cant afford even proper "putting-down" the horse, you shouldnt be in horse ownership. I wish people would stop betting this track. i have a feeling the connection to the kill lots is well planned there.

Hambletonian

03-11-2018, 08:21 AM

We all have to face something. There is more racing then reputable folks to undertake it.

Back in the day, you could do a number of terrible things and only the insiders would know.

Today, the worst of all worlds. The terrible info is out there for all to see, and the authorities by and large do nothing.

Race horse aftercare is a very difficult issue. Few horses that are raced for any length of time are left in a condition for the average future horse owner to deal with. Most have issues which seriously effect what they can be used for. I imagine if we all were aware of what happens t most of them we would be sick to our stomachs. We here the happy story, "sent off to retirement," and hope and pray they will be taken care of. I am guessing that very very few race horses die of old age.

The public will not stand for it much longer.

Mulerider

03-11-2018, 05:15 PM

Dina at www.icareihelp.com is $7,600 short of the $22,000 needed to bail out the Delta 24. She was denied help by the newly-created NTWO. She had to pay Jacob Thompson to give her an extension of time. She will also need $350 per horse to cover the 30-day quarantine.

https://twitter.com/icareihelp/status/972909824689299456

https://twitter.com/icareihelp/status/972914585471766533

https://twitter.com/icareihelp/status/972916350300622849

Denny

03-11-2018, 05:30 PM

Does anybody know if this occurs with Standardbreds that race at harness tracks???

I'd REALLY LIKE TO KNOW.

Mulerider

03-11-2018, 05:33 PM

Does anybody know if this occurs with Standardbreds that race at harness tracks???

I'd REALLY LIKE TO KNOW.

The answer is yes. Scroll down the icareihelp Twitter page and you'll see one recently rescued.

Lemon Drop Husker

03-11-2018, 05:53 PM

Thankfully Delta Downs racing is over.

That means no more horses will be slaughtered.

Mulerider

03-11-2018, 06:07 PM

Thankfully Delta Downs racing is over.

That means no more horses will be slaughtered.

LDH, I had the same thought.

Then it occurred to me that BECAUSE the meet is over, Thompson's Kill Lot will be filling up with Delta horses in the next few weeks. The fall meet doesn't start until October 17. For certain owners, if you've got an unproductive horse it's better to get three or four hundred dollars from Jacob Thompson (a convicted felon who spent a little jail time here in East Texas for livestock theft) now, than to provide hay and oats for the next seven months.

Let me be blunt. Jacob Thompson is criminal scum. A special place in Hell awaits him. And I have worse things I could say about his live-in girlfriend, Tara Sanders.

THIS is why I appealed in my OP for folks to contact their congressional reps in support of the SAFE act: it will effectively put the kill lot people like Jacob Thompson out of the horse business. I would like to reiterate that plea.

Thask, regarding the current Delta 24, Thompson is not allowing potential buyers to examine the lip tattoos prior to purchase.

Mule

baconswitchfarm

03-11-2018, 09:49 PM

Does anybody know if this occurs with Standardbreds that race at harness tracks???

I'd REALLY LIKE TO KNOW.

The answer is yes but not like with thoroughbreds. The horses at kill lots that are standardbreds are mostly very old or have major physical issues. Because of the major rise in population of Amish communities, standardbred demand is at an all time high. Some tracks have had to raise the bottom claiming prices because people would just claim them and put them right on the road. Ten years ago an average trotter that was too slow but sound could be sold for 1500 or so as a road horse. Because of lower breeding numbers and higher demand those same horses sell regularly now for 5 to 10k right off the track.Recently had a friend turn down 15k for a 4 year old maiden gelding. He was large and handsome but slow. So, there are killer type horses but the economics today have really changed the market.

Mulerider

03-12-2018, 05:55 AM

The remaining funds were raised last night to rescue the 24 Delta horses from Thompson's Kill Pen. They will now be transported to the horse farm of Hal Parker in Farmerville, La. Veterinary services will be provided by a local vet at greatly discounted rates.

Once these horses clear the 30-day quarantine, they will be available for adoption at no cost to parties that can pass the background check and that have a suitable place to keep a horse.

Thank you to any Pace Advantage members who donated to this effort!

johnhannibalsmith

03-12-2018, 10:21 AM

The remaining funds were raised last night to rescue the 24 Delta horses from Thompson's Kill Pen...

Good for everyone involved. Thanks. :ThmbUp:

PaceAdvantage

03-12-2018, 10:37 AM

...and the tracks don't give a damn even as they sit on the casino profits that these unfortunate horses help them collect...while pretending that they have "anti-slaughter" rules in effect on their premises.

Utterly despicable...IMO. :puke:Yes, the very fact that Delta Downs is owned and operated by BOYD GAMING (a publicly traded company...and publicly traded companies don't like bad publicity) is the real kicker here. The casino rakes in the money and can't come up with any extra $$$ to see these unwanted horses meet a better end to their racing careers....yeah...right...they just don't give two shits.

People should put the heat on BOYD GAMING ($35.28/share at the moment) if they ever hope to see any sort of action when it comes to DED horses being sent to slaughter...

Denny

03-12-2018, 12:13 PM

Thank you Mulerider and baconswitchfarm for responding to my inquiry on Standardbreds. Never would have thought of the Amish.
Good news for lovers of the sport and horses.
It's already much better being a harness fan and not seeing fatal breakdowns like you do at the runners, and this is as good a reason as most, actually better, to follow harness racing instead.
Denny

cj

03-12-2018, 06:17 PM

The remaining funds were raised last night to rescue the 24 Delta horses from Thompson's Kill Pen. They will now be transported to the horse farm of Hal Parker in Farmerville, La. Veterinary services will be provided by a local vet at greatly discounted rates.

Once these horses clear the 30-day quarantine, they will be available for adoption at no cost to parties that can pass the background check and that have a suitable place to keep a horse.

Thank you to any Pace Advantage members who donated to this effort!

It really is sad. At some point, and probably sooner rather than later, people are going to run out of money they can donate for horse rescue. We can't let people like Dina keeping doing the heavy lifting. The owners have to be held responsible.

Mulerider

03-12-2018, 07:12 PM

People should put the heat on BOYD GAMING ($35.28/share at the moment) if they ever hope to see any sort of action when it comes to DED horses being sent to slaughter...

And let's not forget that BOYD GAMING also owns Evangeline Downs, which opens on April 4, and whose Director of Racing carries the same title at Delta.

An interesting coincidence: Delta Downs and Evangeline are about 120 miles apart. Thompson's Kill Lot, in Pitkin, La., is strategically located 65 miles from Delta Downs, and 78 miles from Evangeline.

Mule

Denny

03-12-2018, 09:31 PM

It really is sad. At some point, and probably sooner rather than later, people are going to run out of money they can donate for horse rescue. We can't let people like Dina keeping doing the heavy lifting. The owners have to be held responsible.

Not only owners cj, how about those earning a comfortable living off of horses.
Jockeys, trainers, racetrack executives, breeders, sales companies.....
Some of these people have gotten very rich on horses.

cj

03-12-2018, 11:57 PM

Not only owners cj, how about those earning a comfortable living off of horses.
Jockeys, trainers, racetrack executives, breeders, sales companies.....
Some of these people have gotten very rich on horses.

Yes, agreed.

Mulerider

03-13-2018, 07:18 AM

Thank you Mulerider and baconswitchfarm for responding to my inquiry on Standardbreds.

“In October, [USTA Director of Registry and Member Services] TC Lane and I attended a meeting of key industry stakeholders at the Red Mile to discuss Standardbred aftercare,” Tanner said. “The meeting was borne out of frustration concerning the plight of a Standardbred named Killean Cut Kid, who was found in poor condition in a sales pen in Louisiana."

Here's the comment page for Boyd Gaming corporate...maybe we should all drop them a line and let them know what we think about the current situation at one of their properties?

https://www.boydgaming.com/contact-us

I know it probably won't matter...but if enough people write, perhaps someone will at least start paying attention...

Mulerider

03-13-2018, 09:39 AM

Here's the comment page for Boyd Gaming corporate...maybe we should all drop them a line and let them know what we think about the current situation at one of their properties?

https://www.boydgaming.com/contact-us

I know it probably won't matter...but if enough people write, perhaps someone will at least start paying attention...

Done. Again.

And I was polite, again. Well, except maybe for a subtle, nuanced mention of 60 Minutes. :)

Mulerider

03-13-2018, 10:02 AM

Thank you Mulerider and baconswitchfarm for responding to my inquiry on Standardbreds.

Denny -- forgot to send you this. It's a rescue organization for Standardbreds.

https://www.facebook.com/sosspage/

Scroll down a bit and there were 15 Standardbreds that this group was trying to bail out of two pens in Pennsylvania, one in Shippensburg and the other in Lebanon. Yesterday was their deadline, don't know if they got it done in time.

Mule

bello

03-13-2018, 10:44 AM

Not sure it still goes on, but my guess is it still does.

Amish truck would pull into Monticello Raceway and pick up the horses many owners did not want to keep. Owners know many will go off to the kill pens and some may actually be put to use on the front of a buggy. Clear conscious ( if you want to call it that) since the owners don't know if they will really live as an Amish horse or sent to slaughter.

Process is known as Amishing.

baconswitchfarm

03-13-2018, 11:28 AM

Denny -- forgot to send you this. It's a rescue organization for Standardbreds.

https://www.facebook.com/sosspage/

Scroll down a bit and there were 15 Standardbreds that this group was trying to bail out of two pens in Pennsylvania, one in Shippensburg and the other in Lebanon. Yesterday was their deadline, don't know if they got it done in time.

Mule

If you scroll through that rescues page you will see what I was talking about. Every horse they are trying to rescue is between 13 and 20 something years old. There are no horses that have just come off the track and right to a killer pen. It is still an issue the industry is trying to address with these elder horses who have out lived any use except for a companion pet. But you will never find twenty healthy young horses in a kill lot at the end of the meet like in Louisiana. It is a tough issue to solve as finding a home for thousands of arthritic senior horses that cant be ridden or used is a steep climb. The mass numbers of thoroughbreds that needs to be dealt with seems daunting.

Cholly

03-13-2018, 01:11 PM

Here's the comment page for Boyd Gaming corporate...maybe we should all drop them a line and let them know what we think about the current situation at one of their properties?

https://www.boydgaming.com/contact-us

I know it probably won't matter...but if enough people write, perhaps someone will at least start paying attention...

Done, Boss.

like Mule, was polite...though I did suggest some campaign to let their customers know what their gambling dollars were supporting.

cutchemist42

03-13-2018, 01:42 PM

What is sad is how hard it is to break the killpen cycle.

-Killbuyer buys at auction/owner for 300.
-Makes rescue pay 800 cause they know they will and prey off the kindness.
-Killbuyer now has more money to buy more horses than before.

You need a solution where rescues can have equal access off the track for a fairprice. If you are an owner getting paid the same, wouldnt you rather get 300 from a rescue vs a killbuyer?

cutchemist42

03-13-2018, 01:45 PM

And for education, just look at how bad the trailers and slaughter practices are for Mexico.

At least in Canada, the horse is shot/stunned as accurately as possible.

In Mexico, they are stabbed several times through the spinal cord and than the throat is sliced to further bleed.

On top of that, too many of these trainers are signing fraudulent drug papers. Eating American racehorse meat is not healthy.

Mulerider

03-13-2018, 02:30 PM

What is sad is how hard it is to break the killpen cycle.

-Killbuyer buys at auction/owner for 300.
-Makes rescue pay 800 cause they know they will and prey off the kindness.
-Killbuyer now has more money to buy more horses than before.

You need a solution where rescues can have equal access off the track for a fairprice. If you are an owner getting paid the same, wouldnt you rather get 300 from a rescue vs a killbuyer?

This excellent post gets to the heart of the matter. Jacob Thompson was firm in his price to Dina Alborano on the Delta 24, for which she had to pay $945 each. He wouldn't budge. He'd rather send them to slaughter than to show a willingness to negotiate or compromise with a rescue. That's the kind of people you're dealing with.

Best scenario would be to pass the SAFE Act and stop all horse exports for slaughter. Barring that, we've got to put owners and rescues together and cut people like Jacob Thompson out of the equation.

cutchemist42

03-13-2018, 03:16 PM

This excellent post gets to the heart of the matter. Jacob Thompson was firm in his price to Dina Alborano on the Delta 24, for which she had to pay $945 each. He wouldn't budge. He'd rather send them to slaughter than to show a willingness to negotiate or compromise with a rescue. That's the kind of people you're dealing with.

Best scenario would be to pass the SAFE Act and stop all horse exports for slaughter. Barring that, we've got to put owners and rescues together and cut people like Jacob Thompson out of the equation.

Yep, theres a special place in hell for someone thats running an operation like that. Im not trying to hide from the fact alot of animals are slaughtered. Given the same price though, I dont understand how any reasonable wouldnt take the rescue money.

I know my track ASD has a group on FB called the Final Furlong where exracers are posted by trainers with their current condition. Some might be just pasture pets, but the ones that can still do other athletics still go for $1500-2000.

There needs to be a fairprice avenue for the rescues. Going straight from track to killpen by these scummy owners is not going to work for the rescues.

Mulerider

03-13-2018, 06:12 PM

There needs to be a fairprice avenue for the rescues. Going straight from track to killpen by these scummy owners is not going to work for the rescues.

I have in front of me the 2017-2018 Delta Downs Thoroughbred Stall Application. There are 23 conditions listed that applicants must agree to. Number 23, added, perhaps, as an afterthought, says, "Any trainer or owner based at Delta Downs who sells a horse for slaughter that was previously based at Delta Downs will have their stalls permanently revoked." That's it in its entirety.

Contrast that with Tampa Bay's 2017-2018 stall application, which includes the following on the first page as a separate, distinct notification, segregated from the text of all the other rules:

IMPORTANT NOTICE: All owners or trainers stabled at Tampa Bay Downs (TBD) found to have directly or indirectly sold a horse for slaughter will have his or her stalls permanently revoked. Tampa Bay Downs requires its horsemen to conduct due diligence on those buying horses and encourages them to support rescue and adoption efforts by finding humane ways of dealing with horses unable to continue racing. Any owners or trainers stabled at TBD found to have directly or indirectly sold a horse for slaughter will have his or her stalls permanently revoked. TBD requires its horsemen to conduct due diligence on those buying horses and encourages them to support rescue and adoption efforts by finding humane ways of dealing with horses unable to continue racing

That's a direct cut and paste. You'll notice that the statement repeats itself. Whether by accident or by design, it gets the point across.

(The emphasis on the word "indirectly" above is mine, because that word is key to holding connections accountable. I can't remember the track, but one trainer last year who was being investigated for this issue claimed he sold horses to a buyer who was going to donate them to a children's camp. Right...)

Cholly

03-13-2018, 07:52 PM

Here's the lame response I received from Jamie Gaines (JamieGaines@boydgaming.com):

"Thank you for reaching out, Jim

As you’ve probably read in our posts, Delta Downs has an anti-slaughter policy. That policy is posted throughout our stables and in our racing forms and condition books. If a trainer or owner is found to have knowingly sold a horse to slaughter, we will permanently revoke their stall privileges.

But we do not license owners or trainers, and we do not have the authority to revoke – or attempt to revoke – those licenses.

Furthermore, we do not have the legal right to bar licensed owners and trainers from racing at our tracks.

Just to be clear, we are vehemently opposed to this behavior, and we will continue to work with all licensing authorities to do what we are permitted to do under the law to deter this behavior.

Again, we appreciate you reaching out, and we hope we’ve answered your questions."

Following the link provided above by PA, my original submission to Boyd Gaming was forwarded to Jamie Gaines. Not sure if Jamie Gaines is part of the corporate side of Boyd Gaming or part of Delta Downs, so use your own judgement if you want to contact Jamie Gaines directly or route through the corporate website.

But hopefully some others will "reach out"--Jamie will thank you for it.

Mulerider

03-13-2018, 08:17 PM

Well, well. Look what Delta just posted on its Twitter page, its first acknowledgement of the issue since the last time a big group of horses was saved from Thompson's Kill Lot in January. I say we stay on 'em.

https://twitter.com/deltaracing/status/973682644692099072

Mulerider

03-13-2018, 08:38 PM

Cholly, I never got a response. Guess it was the 60 Minutes thing...

One wonders how Mr. Gaines reconciles his statement to you that "Furthermore, we do not have the legal right to bar licensed owners and trainers from racing at our tracks.." with the VERY FIRST ITEM in their 2017-2018 Thoroughbred Stall Application:

1. Delta Downs reserves the right to refuse the application for stable space in whole or in part or refuse the acceptance of any entry into any race for any reason or cause and without notice to the undersigned.

With all due respect to Mr. Gaines, I call bullshit on his response.

cj

03-13-2018, 10:30 PM

Well, well. Look what Delta just posted on its Twitter page, its first acknowledgement of the issue since the last time a big group of horses was saved from Thompson's Kill Lot in January. I say we stay on 'em.

https://twitter.com/deltaracing/status/973682644692099072

Nothing has changed since January when they last posted, don't see why it would now. They can leave that there and try to look good until the next meet I guess.

Jeff P

03-14-2018, 01:43 PM

What is sad is how hard it is to break the killpen cycle.

-Killbuyer buys at auction/owner for 300.
-Makes rescue pay 800 cause they know they will and prey off the kindness.
-Killbuyer now has more money to buy more horses than before.

You need a solution where rescues can have equal access off the track for a fairprice. If you are an owner getting paid the same, wouldnt you rather get 300 from a rescue vs a killbuyer?

Was not aware of this. (Very interesting post.)

Please understand that I am a horseplayer - and that the comments/questions I am about to post come from that perspective - and not from that of an owner/trainer/groom, etc. --

I tend to believe horsemen with extra/unwanted horses at the end of a meet would just about universally choose direct sale to a genuine horse rescue vs. an auction sale where a percentage chance exists the horse could end up going to slaughter -- IF such an option existed.

Q. Does such an option exist in Louisiana?... And by that I mean is there a formal program in place so that everybody on the backside knows how to contact the local horse rescue directly (provided there is one) to arrange for a sale. (Making it easy to bypass the local kill buyer entirely.)

Q. Does a similar option (a model program) exist in another racing jurisdiction?

Q. If not: Why not?

Q. Does anyone other than myself think getting a model program like this off the ground would be a good idea? And what would it take to get something like this up and running?

-jp

.

thaskalos

03-14-2018, 02:26 PM

Was not aware of this. (Very interesting post.)

Please understand that I am a horseplayer - and that the comments/questions I am about to post come from that perspective - and not from that of an owner/trainer/groom, etc. --

I tend to believe horsemen with extra/unwanted horses at the end of a meet would just about universally choose direct sale to a genuine horse rescue vs. an auction sale where a percentage chance exists the horse could end up going to slaughter -- IF such an option existed.

Q. Does such an option exist in Louisiana?... And by that I mean is there a formal program in place so that everybody on the backside knows how to contact the local horse rescue directly (provided there is one) to arrange for a sale. (Making it easy to bypass the local kill buyer entirely.)

Q. Does a similar option (a model program) exist in another racing jurisdiction?

Q. If not: Why not?

Q. Does anyone other than myself think getting a model program like this off the ground would be a good idea? And what would it take to get something like this up and running?

-jp

.

I think it's safe to assume that the owners of these unwanted horses already know that such rescue organizations exist...but still they choose to take the short money from these unscrupulous kill-buyers. While Thompson is a scumbag for buying these horses for $300 each and then jacking up the price and parading them on Facebook to tug at the heartstrings of a sensitive public...the owners of these horses are also scumbags for aligning themselves with such a shameful "business practice". I understand that continuing to feed an unproductive horse may be too expensive for some owners...but why not donate such a horse to someone with the willingness and the resources to properly care for the animal? I submit that any owner who places $300 ahead of the concern for the welfare of the horse he once supposedly "loved" is exactly the type of owner who needs to be driven out of this game.

It's easy to hate people like Jacob Thompson...but the horse-owners who sell to them are just as despicable...IMO. These scumbags need to be identified...and their names need to be paraded on Facebook, alongside these unfortunate animals that they've marked for an early and senseless death.

Tom

03-14-2018, 03:30 PM

Those who would sell horses to a killer have no decency. They probably take the easy way in everything they do, probable doped the horses so much they don't want anyone to find out.
Anyone who sells a horse to a killer is the scum of the earth.

cj

03-14-2018, 03:49 PM

https://twitter.com/brooklyncowboy1/status/974005986582175744

https://twitter.com/brooklyncowboy1/status/974005313316773888

Mulerider

03-14-2018, 04:01 PM

https://twitter.com/brooklyncowboy1/status/974005986582175744

https://twitter.com/brooklyncowboy1/status/974005313316773888

As I told LDH in an earlier post, the end of Delta's meet just made this more likely to occur.

cutchemist42

03-14-2018, 05:08 PM

Was not aware of this. (Very interesting post.)

Please understand that I am a horseplayer - and that the comments/questions I am about to post come from that perspective - and not from that of an owner/trainer/groom, etc. --

I tend to believe horsemen with extra/unwanted horses at the end of a meet would just about universally choose direct sale to a genuine horse rescue vs. an auction sale where a percentage chance exists the horse could end up going to slaughter -- IF such an option existed.

Q. Does such an option exist in Louisiana?... And by that I mean is there a formal program in place so that everybody on the backside knows how to contact the local horse rescue directly (provided there is one) to arrange for a sale. (Making it easy to bypass the local kill buyer entirely.)

Q. Does a similar option (a model program) exist in another racing jurisdiction?

Q. If not: Why not?

Q. Does anyone other than myself think getting a model program like this off the ground would be a good idea? And what would it take to get something like this up and running?

-jp

.

If you have Favebook as an example, try looking up Final Furlong for ASD horses. I think that is a start, where its an avenue to post the horses outside of a slaughter environment.

A healthy exracer can still be posted for $1500 -$2000.

I follow thr group and each horse posting has a very active comments section of interest.

Mulerider

03-14-2018, 06:16 PM

This was just tweeted. This horse, one of the rescued Delta 24, collapsed and died of a fractured vertebrae just after arriving at Mr Parker's farm this morning. The horse's name is Charlee's Maid.

I mention this because Charlee's Maid was trained by George Williams, the same trainer of Alecia's Little Boy, who was himself rescued from Thompson's just a week or so ago.

https://twitter.com/brooklyncowboy1/status/974039181226897410

Jeff P

03-14-2018, 06:26 PM

At the risk of being naive:

Where the hell is the Louisiana Racing Commission on this?

-jp

.

Mulerider

03-14-2018, 06:36 PM

At the risk of being naive:

Where the hell is the Louisiana Racing Commission on this?

-jp

.

I emailed a gentleman with the Investigations Dept. of the LRC on Monday regarding the Delta 24. As with my emails to Delta, there was no response.

Conclusion: the Louisiana Racing Commission is about as worthless as Delta Downs and Boyd Gaming.

Comment on the horse that died this morning: what kind of person would subject a horse with a broken back to days of pain standing in a cramped pen at Thompson's, then in an even worse cramped trailer for two days to a Mexican slaughterhouse? For $300? Are you kidding me?

cj

03-14-2018, 06:43 PM

I emailed a gentleman with the Investigations Dept. of the LRC on Monday regarding the Delta 24. As with my emails to Delta, there was no response.

Conclusion: the Louisiana Racing Commission is about as worthless as Delta Downs and Boyd Gaming.

Comment on the horse that died this morning: what kind of person would subject a horse with a broken back to days of pain standing in a cramped pen at Thompson's, then in an even worse cramped trailer for two days to a Mexican slaughterhouse? For $300? Are you kidding me?

Emails don't work for stuff like this, too easy to blow off. You have to try to get somebody on the phone. If you aren't in Louisiana I doubt they'll give the time of day.

green80

03-15-2018, 09:46 AM

As a Louisiana horseman, I can say there are no widely known rescue buyers for ex-racehorses. If an owner has several horses that are non useful anymore as racehorses and a buyer or even a giveaway taker cannot be found, he may have no other option in order to get these horses out of the feed tub. If anyone knows of any rescue buyers that will take all of these horses, post it here. From what I see, most owners would prefer not to send horses to the kill buyers but sometimes they have no other choice. I hear of horses almost weekly that owners want to find a home but no takers other than kill buyers.

Tom

03-15-2018, 10:02 AM

See, now PETA does a role to play in our game.
If we allow scumbags like this to continue,m what the hell if our game worth.

Rather see it destroyed in the public press with lies and cherry picked case than allow it to continue.
Dont complain to the tracks, complain to the press, the TV stations, PETA, your congressional representatives. People looking to make a name by extorting the racing game. People who can destroy it.

I still maintain only Federal Regulation can fix this sick industry.
And that is the absolute last resort.

Mulerider

03-15-2018, 12:15 PM

As a Louisiana horseman, I can say there are no widely known rescue buyers for ex-racehorses. If an owner has several horses that are non useful anymore as racehorses and a buyer or even a giveaway taker cannot be found, he may have no other option in order to get these horses out of the feed tub. If anyone knows of any rescue buyers that will take all of these horses, post it here. From what I see, most owners would prefer not to send horses to the kill buyers but sometimes they have no other choice. I hear of horses almost weekly that owners want to find a home but no takers other than kill buyers.

Green80, the same economic pressures exist everywhere else in the industry, and yet we're not hearing about similar numbers at tracks anywhere else. Pennsylvania might not be far behind, but it's not yet at La. level.

I live just across the Sabine River, so the Louisiana racing culture is somewhat familiar. You have backyard owners and "trainers", many of whom ship on race day and don't stall. The horses are commodities to be used in their "hobby." And when their hobby gets too expensive, the horses are disposed of as quickly and easily as possible.

Am I wrong?

By the way, have you ever run across Super Trainer George Williams, with his impressive 7 career wins out of 375 career starts record?

Poindexter

03-15-2018, 12:16 PM

As a Louisiana horseman, I can say there are no widely known rescue buyers for ex-racehorses. If an owner has several horses that are non useful anymore as racehorses and a buyer or even a giveaway taker cannot be found, he may have no other option in order to get these horses out of the feed tub. If anyone knows of any rescue buyers that will take all of these horses, post it here. From what I see, most owners would prefer not to send horses to the kill buyers but sometimes they have no other choice. I hear of horses almost weekly that owners want to find a home but no takers other than kill buyers.

Man this is a hard thread to read. This is some sick shit. The quoted post just illustrates to me that nothing significant is being done to combat the problem. Every dollar of breakage needs to go one place only, to the aftercare or a least humane euthanization of racehorses. I know they would manage to screw that up and some corrupt farm and/or vet will end up bilking the money, but still nothing less is acceptable. As horseplayers we really need to take action and let the powers that be know that is horses are not treated humanely, we aren't betting. Period. If we don't we are culpable.

Since Jeff Platt is posting in this thread, I am insisting that Hana take action on this matter. There should be nothing more important to any horseplayer than the humane treatment of racehorses whether they are racing or in training or unable to race anymore. If racing cannot police that, than they don't deserve a dollar of my money or a dollar of yours. Good ****ing riddance.

Jeff P

03-15-2018, 12:31 PM

What if a partnership were formed between the local racing commission/track/horsemens group, etc. and one or more local horse rescues?

What if the local racing commission/track/horsemens group made it widely known that there's a program in place that makes it easy to "sell" your extra/unwanted horses directly to the local horse rescue?

AND THAT IF YOU ARE CAUGHT SELLING TO A KILL BUYER YOU ARE KICKED OUT OF THE GAME PERMANENTLY AND IN ALL RACING JURISDICTIONS.

Imo, such a program could involve printing up notices and posting them conspicuously throughout the plant... on bulletin boards, on stall applications, multiple places throughout the backside, hell print it in the track program, maybe even on the menu in the track kitchen, etc.

The idea being to make it virtually impossible for someone to say afterwards "I didn't know horse rescue was an option."

I hate to say it -- but it needs to be said -- in a state like Louisiana where racing is propped up by a casino/slots subsidy -- funding for the program needs to come out of the slots subsidy itself.

--Edit: Let's hear some feedback on the above. Thanks.

-jp

.

cj

03-15-2018, 12:36 PM

What if a partnership were formed between the local racing commission/track/horsemens group, etc. and one or more local horse rescues?

What if the local racing commission/track/horsemens group made it widely known that there's a program in place that makes it easy to "sell" your extra/unwanted horses directly to the local horse rescue?

AND THAT IF YOU ARE CAUGHT SELLING TO A KILL BUYER YOU ARE KICKED OUT OF THE GAME PERMANENTLY AND IN ALL RACING JURISDICTIONS.

Imo, such a program could involve printing up notices and posting them conspicuously throughout the plant... on bulletin boards, on stall applications, multiple places throughout the backside, hell maybe even on the menu in the track kitchen, etc.

The idea being to make it virtually impossible for someone to say afterwards "I didn't know horse rescue was an option."

I hate to say it -- but it needs to be said -- in a state like Louisiana where racing is propped up by a casino/slots subsidy -- funding for the program needs to come out of the slots subsidy itself.

-jp

.

My only question here would be how long can horse rescue groups continue to buy horses? This seems like it would put quite a strain on them pretty quickly. I don't pretend to have the answers, but I think there would need to be a lot more rescue groups that were also getting funding from somewhere other than donations.

Mulerider

03-15-2018, 12:43 PM

Jeff -- I agree that the La. racinos should chip in...without the horses they have no racinos.

Rescues can do only so much with their business model as currently structured, relying primarily on small donations from people who actually give a damn about the horses.

I posted my thoughts on permanent funding earlier in the thread. It will take a lot of money; IMO, every component of the industry should contribute to it.

Mule

cj

03-15-2018, 12:45 PM

...every component of the industry should contribute to it.

Mule

I agree, other than I don't think bettors should have to be part of this unless they do so voluntarily. The price is too steep already. I'm not saying you think bettors should also pay, just adding my two cents.

ultracapper

03-15-2018, 12:56 PM

Instead of throwing all that casino money into purses, a chunk should be designated for retired horses. Drop each casino fueled purse 3%, and you'd have millions annually to take care of these horses. Buy a couple ranches in the northern Rocky Mountain range and take care of literally thousands of horses, paid for by each push of the slot machine button.

Mulerider

03-15-2018, 01:05 PM

I agree, other than I don't think bettors should have to be part of this unless they do so voluntarily. The price is too steep already. I'm not saying you think bettors should also pay, just adding my two cents.

CJ, I don't think bettors should have to pay, either, given current take levels.

But I think that any contribution that tracks were required to make would inevitably be passed on to us, anyway.

Without getting political, it's like my take on corporate taxes. Exxon, with its army of economists, accountants, and actuaries, can easily project what its annual corporate income tax will be. It's just an expense, like payroll or rent. Rest assured that Exxon's annual tax obligation is built in to to the price of every gallon you buy. And so it would be with any cost that tracks would be asked to pay.

Or, I suppose the contributions just be imposed upstream from the tracks.

Mule

green80

03-15-2018, 01:10 PM

Green80, the same economic pressures exist everywhere else in the industry, and yet we're not hearing about similar numbers at tracks anywhere else. Pennsylvania might not be far behind, but it's not yet at La. level.

I live just across the Sabine River, so the Louisiana racing culture is somewhat familiar. You have backyard owners and "trainers", many of whom ship on race day and don't stall. The horses are commodities to be used in their "hobby." And when their hobby gets too expensive, the horses are disposed of as quickly and easily as possible.

Am I wrong?

By the way, have you ever run across Super Trainer George Williams, with his impressive 7 career wins out of 375 career starts record?

It is most likely these backyard trainers and owners that are going to the kiill pen. They do not have the resources to keep these horses that are non productive. I know the big trainers all have some of these backyard trainers that they give their "bad" horses to.

And no, I have never run across George Williams but I know some that are about as impressive.

cutchemist42

03-15-2018, 01:39 PM

As a Louisiana horseman, I can say there are no widely known rescue buyers for ex-racehorses. If an owner has several horses that are non useful anymore as racehorses and a buyer or even a giveaway taker cannot be found, he may have no other option in order to get these horses out of the feed tub. If anyone knows of any rescue buyers that will take all of these horses, post it here. From what I see, most owners would prefer not to send horses to the kill buyers but sometimes they have no other choice. I hear of horses almost weekly that owners want to find a home but no takers other than kill buyers.

Why is humane euthanasia not an option then?

thaskalos

03-15-2018, 03:16 PM

Why is humane euthanasia not an option then?

Because the Louisiana horsemen need the lousy 300-bucks. :rolleyes:

Mulerider

03-15-2018, 03:26 PM

Because the Louisiana horsemen need the lousy 300-bucks. :rolleyes:

Don't be too harsh. It might have saved a bass boat from repossession.

thaskalos

03-15-2018, 03:57 PM

Don't be too harsh. It might have saved a bass boat from repossession.

Many years ago...I used to share a table at a local OTB with Dave Feldman...who was a long-time thoroughbred owner/trainer, and also a handicapper/columnist for the Chicago Sun Times. In a moment of deep reflection...this is what Feldman solemnly admitted to me:

"Gus, if you met some of the people on the backstretch...then you'd never wager another dollar on a horse for the rest of your life".

It's taken me many years...but I am finally beginning to understand what Feldman meant.

baconswitchfarm

03-15-2018, 03:59 PM

Why is humane euthanasia not an option then?

In general , a vet will not put down a healthy animal because it is unwanted. I don't know of any rescue that will buy a horse directly from an owner. They only pay to get a horse from a killer buyer. But the killer buyers do now buy extra horses to sell to the rescues as a profit making enterprise. It is a disgusting cycle. By far the easiest solution seems to be to make it illegal to transport horses across the southern border.

Tom

03-15-2018, 04:57 PM

What about taxing the breeders.
THEY breed these horses in the first place.
Do they not have a responsibility?

1%of every purse should go to taking care of the mess racing leaves behind.

Mulerider

03-15-2018, 05:14 PM

This is Lucky Pierre, a 4-year-old gelded grandson of Unbridled. He is among the 24 horses rescued yesterday from Thompson's Kill Lot. He has a career record of 14: 1-2-2, avg. EPS $1,419.

His last trainer of record is Garrett Gautreaux, with 5 wins in 108 starts.

Lawmakers are considering changes after stories and social media posts showed Thoroughbreds who had raced at Delta Downs in kill pens. Industry groups also are rallying to put additional safety nets in place.

The issues in Louisiana proved a timely topic for a panel on aftercare at the National Horsemen's Benevolent and Protective Association convention March 15 in New Orleans.

Louisiana HBPA president Benard Chatters said his organization supports the proposed legislation, which would have all horsemen participate in a program of financial support for aftercare that could be based on a per-start basis or a commitment from purse earnings.

I guarantee you that industry stakeholders have read every post in this thread - and find the situation every bit as intolerable as I do.

-jp

.

green80

03-16-2018, 06:56 PM

Because the Louisiana horsemen need the lousy 300-bucks. :rolleyes:

humane euthanasia -$150, kill buyer +$300, that's a $450 dollar swing on a backside where you couldn't find a $10 bill with a search warrant.

Then you have to pay somebody to haul off a dead horse.

thaskalos

03-16-2018, 07:47 PM

humane euthanasia -$150, kill buyer +$300, that's a $450 dollar swing on a backside where you couldn't find a $10 bill with a search warrant.

Then you have to pay somebody to haul off a dead horse.

If a $10 bill is that scarce on the Louisiana backstretch...then the inhabitants thereof should find new hobbies, or new places of employment. Leave the game in the hands of those with some cash in their pockets.

PaceAdvantage

03-17-2018, 02:27 AM

Why is humane euthanasia not an option then?Because it costs money...plus the cost of disposing of a rather large carcass.

I'm not excusing what is happening. Just explaining the mindset here...the guys that are dumping these horses probably aren't flush with cash...they are racing horses who can't run...and risking (however small the risk, apparently) getting caught selling to the killers because they probably can't afford to do anything else with these horses...and they aren't going to spend the time and effort they think it will take to find a home for them.

Mulerider

03-17-2018, 09:10 AM

Because it costs money...plus the cost of disposing of a rather large carcass.

Just explaining the mindset here...the guys that are dumping these horses probably aren't flush with cash...they are racing horses who can't run...

I used to marvel at how Delta and Evangeline could have full 10-horse fields on a day when Belmont averaged six.

And now I know. It happens only through the most generous definition of "trainer" and "owner."

Mulerider

03-18-2018, 12:46 AM

The gray horse you see in post #150, standing in Thompson's Kill Lot waiting for his trailer ride to Mexico three days from now, is Colt's Dream. A six-year-old maiden, this grandson of Secretariat raced at Delta Downs one week ago today. Three days later he went through Dominique's Livestock Auction, a facility widely known to be a favorite shopping facility for kill buyers. The high bidder was Jacob Thompson.

Clearly his connections made no attempt to re-home this horse; neither could these particular connections be considered "backyard." The trainer has over 11,000 starts. The owner has owned multiple horses for many years.

I find it highly unlikely that these connections were unaware that they were running this horse through a dangerous ring; I also think it is highly unlikely that they don't know Jacob Thompson either through reputation or on sight.

If either Jake E. Leger, trainer, or Taminy Doucet, owner, were present at this auction during the bidding then I believe it is likely that they were in violation on Delta's prohibition of selling a horse to slaughter, as defined in Rule 23 of Delta's 2017-2018 Thoroughbred Stall Application.

Not that Delta will investigate it when it's brought to their attention.

jay68802

03-18-2018, 12:30 PM

The gray horse you see in post #150, standing in Thompson's Kill Lot waiting for his trailer ride to Mexico three days from now, is Colt's Dream. A six-year-old maiden, this grandson of Secretariat raced at Delta Downs one week ago today. Three days later he went through Dominique's Livestock Auction, a facility widely known to be a favorite shopping facility for kill buyers. The high bidder was Jacob Thompson.

Clearly his connections made no attempt to re-home this horse; neither could these particular connections be considered "backyard." The trainer has over 11,000 starts. The owner has owned multiple horses for many years.

I find it highly unlikely that these connections were unaware that they were running this horse through a dangerous ring; I also think it is highly unlikely that they don't know Jacob Thompson either through reputation or on sight.

If either Jake E. Leger, trainer, or Taminy Doucet, owner, were present at this auction during the bidding then I believe it is likely that they were in violation on Delta's prohibition of selling a horse to slaughter, as defined in Rule 23 of Delta's 2017-2018 Thoroughbred Stall Application.

Not that Delta will investigate it when it's brought to their attention.

Small correction, the horses name is Colt's Secret. And really do not care if they were at the auction or not. Both the owner and trainer have been in this business long enough to know what is happening.

Mulerider

03-18-2018, 03:04 PM

Thanks, Jay. Colt's Secret and the other 10 in the kill lot have now been rescued.

You're right about the connections; I would just like confirmation that one or both were at the auction so I can press Delta on the matter.

Mule

thaskalos

03-18-2018, 06:11 PM

In a kinder, more thoughtful world...Dina Alborado would be receiving Eclipse awards for the work that she does. :ThmbUp::ThmbUp: