It will be interesting to see what OG's are still at home on the couch about a week or two before Training Camps open. I bet we can get a really good 1 or 2 year stop gap at veteran minimum.

As for Avril: Mahew said he doesn't expect to use the Franchise Tag. But, he didn't say he wouldn't use the Transition Tag. That would guarantee Avril less than half of what he made last season, while letting him actually hit the FA market. If he signs with someone, we can either match or take the 1st and 3rd round draft picks.

Now think about next year with the guys we will "LOSE" in FA:

Gosder: SEE YA!!!! we should get a 3rd round Comp pick out of his sorry butt.

Avril: ( If we don't Trans Tag him) He will definitely net us a 3rd round Comp pick.

Durrant: Probably a 4th round comp

Levy : A 4th round comp

Houston: If we lose him, I would expect a 3rd round comp.

Cory Williams: Toss up between a 3rd and 4th round comp pick.

Basically, we could have a bonanza of picks available to us next year. And while we can't trade comp picks, they will enable us to use our regular picks to move all over the place to get the guys we want.

The transition tag is equal to the top ten salaries or 120% of the players previous salary which ever is higher and you only get right of first refusal. We would still be paying Avril the same as the FT and would get no compensation if we refuse to match, so there is no point in tagging him with the TT.

The lions would have to sign no FAs to get those comp picks. There are only 32 comp picks awarded each draft and they are only awarded if the team loses more FAs than they sign or they lose players of much better value than they sign. Also outside of Avril none of those players will sign big contracts, so they will not generate the highest comp pick which is a 3rd. Your looking at a 5th round comp pick at best for the guys not named Avril and that's probably pushing it. It's unbelievable that you would call a guy like Cherilus sorry than expect the highest compensation for him, that makes no sense.

Have you seen our cap situation? We WILL NOT be signing any free agents other than Veteran Minimum FA's. And that is if we can clear enough room under the cap.

Cherilus is sorry. It took him what 5 years to get RT figured out? Just in time for FA, he does good enough to be ranked as the 3rd best RT in the league. So, Gos is going to make a BIG payday from someone. He will net us a 3rd round comp. And I can see Houston and Williams getting fairly big contracts from someone else.

I have seen the Cap situation, but it's not going to stop them from signing a few mid level guys to fill holes. No team goes into the season only signing Vet minimum guys when their losing so many starters. There is always ways to make more space. Those things will probably screw the team even more down the road than they help now, but Mayhew has shown he's willing to delay the pain until later to feel good now.

If Cherilus is the third best RT in the NFL he damn sure isn't sorry. I'm not saying Cherilus is a world beater, but he is competent now. I don't think the league cares if he's a RT or LT when deciding his comp value so even a big pay day for him isn't going to get a 3rd round comp pick.

Williams is old, He's not going to generate big offers and he also said he'd take less money to come back to DET. Huston holds more value to DET than to anybody else, there a good amount of other CBs available this off season that are as good if not better that will get looked at before a quiet guy like Houston.

February 6th, 2013, 2:58 pm

DJ-B

Rookie Player of the Year

Joined: April 5th, 2007, 5:51 pmPosts: 2347

Re: It's About Damn Time! Peterman Gets the Ax

wjb21ndtown wrote:

kdsberman wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

If we take an OLman at #5 overall and it's not a LT, I'm going to have a fit. Just letting you guys know now...

Warmak may be a great OG, but so was Castro. Warmak MAY even be the next Hutch, but look at where Hutch was picked... Not in the top 10.

We can get by with Fox, Nagy at OG. In fact, we should be playing Nagy next to Raiola this year if we plan to move him to OC next year.

I dont think anyone wants the Lions to take Warmack at #5, but in general would be nice to have him. Id be pissed too if they picked him top 10 even.

I agree. I would trade down if Fisher isn't there, but I really can't see us taking an OG. DE and LT are the two "premium positions" that we have to fill, that we can't get via FA. LT's, especially starting caliber first year LTs, are hard to find after the first round. Starting caliber first year DEs are hard to find after the 2nd round. I don't see us filling either of those needs in FA, given our cap situation, and I don't see how we can draft any other way.

We COULD throw Reiff to the wolves at LT, and play Fox at RT, but IMO that's horribly irresponsible.

Agree with both of you about what we should be picking, just was pointing out that Warmack isnt a rd 2 pick unless something huge comes out. He is definetly in the DeCastro class of Gs and will probably go 15-25ish, but has top 10 Talent as the #1 G, just Guards usually dont go in the top 10 because they arent Valued there.

EDIT: I also agree its becoming clearer and clearer to me that LT as long as Fisher or Joekel is there is a no brainer for the Lions. Any of the DEs, even the 1s that look great talentwise can bust out much easier than an LT taken in the top 10 (check the last decade of top 10 LTs vs Top 10 DE bust rates) and we cant afford to blow this pick. DE is deeper IMO, and I think we can take 1 in Rd 2 if a topflight CB/S isnt available there.

February 6th, 2013, 3:06 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: It's About Damn Time! Peterman Gets the Ax

Oh, I agree completely about Warmack being picked in 12-18 range, I just don't see it in the cards for us. LT is a bigger need and more important position, and we have two guys on the roster that could play the OG role better than Peterman right now anyhow.

February 7th, 2013, 11:34 am

thelomasbrowns

Pro Bowl Player

Joined: August 24th, 2010, 9:54 pmPosts: 2539

Re: It's About Damn Time! Peterman Gets the Ax

I think it's more clear than ever that we're going to have A LOT of spots to fill, which makes trading back more appealing and elevates it above the annual Lionbacker trade back campaign. The question now is can we find a trading partner.

_________________Jim Caldwell, on whether Jim Harbaugh is stealing his thunder: "Me? I don't have any thunder."

February 7th, 2013, 11:50 am

wjb21ndtown

Re: It's About Damn Time! Peterman Gets the Ax

thelomasbrowns wrote:

I think it's more clear than ever that we're going to have A LOT of spots to fill, which makes trading back more appealing and elevates it above the annual Lionbacker trade back campaign. The question now is can we find a trading partner.

We may have a lot of "need," but we have two premium needs, LT and DE. We can either get two playmakers/NFL caliber starters at those premium positions, and fillers elsewhere, or a decent player in the first at CB/DE/LB a decent player with our 2nd round pick, and a bunch of fillers elsewhere.

Personally I'd rather have a premium LT and forgo the "extra" 3rd or even 3rd/4th round pick that we would get by trading down.

Even if we can get an additional 2nd round pick, to me it would be tough to justify trading back and passing on a franchise LT.

I think it's more clear than ever that we're going to have A LOT of spots to fill, which makes trading back more appealing and elevates it above the annual Lionbacker trade back campaign. The question now is can we find a trading partner.

We may have a lot of "need," but we have two premium needs, LT and DE. We can either get two playmakers/NFL caliber starters at those premium positions, and fillers elsewhere, or a decent player in the first at CB/DE/LB a decent player with our 2nd round pick, and a bunch of fillers elsewhere.

Personally I'd rather have a premium LT and forgo the "extra" 3rd or even 3rd/4th round pick that we would get by trading down.

Even if we can get an additional 2nd round pick, to me it would be tough to justify trading back and passing on a franchise LT.

Spot on wjb. ACK.... I need to wash my mouth out. This is becoming addictive. LOL. I just don't see us in position to be able to draft a franchise LT again for a long time. There will be good CB's, DE's, and Safeties in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th ( comp pick or trade up) rounds. I would actually say that CB is our 2nd draft priority though. And that need will match the talent available at the top of the 2nd round. We got Avril in the 3rd round, with Millen doing the drafting. Let's see if we can strike gold again.

February 7th, 2013, 12:58 pm

DayDreamer

National Champion

Joined: December 18th, 2008, 9:18 amPosts: 844Location: Where I lay my head is home

Re: It's About Damn Time! Peterman Gets the Ax

If Mahew/Schwartz's jobs are really on the line, I see them trading away some 2014 picks for some immediate relief. As bad as it sounds, and I'm not saying they should do it but entertain the idea for a minute.

Lets say they trade away 2014 rd1 for a rd2 and a rd 3 2013, resign Avril, 1 of Durant/Levy, Delmas and Houston; somehow make the cap work for exactly those signings. Then get a premium LT in rd1, a good S and a good DE in rd2 all of whom are immediate starters; add a WR and an LB in rd 3. Now by this time next year, depending on how things turn out, they can trade away one of the 4 people resigned this year and get back what they lost in the 2014 draft.

February 7th, 2013, 1:25 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: It's About Damn Time! Peterman Gets the Ax

DayDreamer wrote:

If Mahew/Schwartz's jobs are really on the line, I see them trading away some 2014 picks for some immediate relief. As bad as it sounds, and I'm not saying they should do it but entertain the idea for a minute.

Lets say they trade away 2014 rd1 for a rd2 and a rd 3 2013, resign Avril, 1 of Durant/Levy, Delmas and Houston; somehow make the cap work for exactly those signings. Then get a premium LT in rd1, a good S and a good DE in rd2 all of whom are immediate starters; add a WR and an LB in rd 3. Now by this time next year, depending on how things turn out, they can trade away one of the 4 people resigned this year and get back what they lost in the 2014 draft.

I actually wouldn't mind trading away a 2013 pick for a 2014 pick, if we can get one of the top 3 CBs or top 3 DEs in the process.

My only issue with it is, we're going to need cheap talent in 2015, cause CJs contract jumps from $12 to $20 million dollars in 2015.

If Mahew/Schwartz's jobs are really on the line, I see them trading away some 2014 picks for some immediate relief. As bad as it sounds, and I'm not saying they should do it but entertain the idea for a minute.

Lets say they trade away 2014 rd1 for a rd2 and a rd 3 2013, resign Avril, 1 of Durant/Levy, Delmas and Houston; somehow make the cap work for exactly those signings. Then get a premium LT in rd1, a good S and a good DE in rd2 all of whom are immediate starters; add a WR and an LB in rd 3. Now by this time next year, depending on how things turn out, they can trade away one of the 4 people resigned this year and get back what they lost in the 2014 draft.

I actually wouldn't mind trading away a 2013 pick for a 2014 pick, if we can get one of the top 3 CBs or top 3 DEs in the process.

My only issue with it is, we're going to need cheap talent in 2015, cause CJs contract jumps from $12 to $20 million dollars in 2015.

I'm betting they'll find some way to lower his cap number when that happens. Mayhew seems pretty good at finding ways to push money back and if the team is back on track I'm sure CJ will be open to move money around to get more wins since he wont be going anywhere for the rest of his career. Not saying the guy will take less money, just that he'll be willing to change how he gets the money if it means it helps them get better.

February 8th, 2013, 2:27 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: It's About Damn Time! Peterman Gets the Ax

rao wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

DayDreamer wrote:

If Mahew/Schwartz's jobs are really on the line, I see them trading away some 2014 picks for some immediate relief. As bad as it sounds, and I'm not saying they should do it but entertain the idea for a minute.

Lets say they trade away 2014 rd1 for a rd2 and a rd 3 2013, resign Avril, 1 of Durant/Levy, Delmas and Houston; somehow make the cap work for exactly those signings. Then get a premium LT in rd1, a good S and a good DE in rd2 all of whom are immediate starters; add a WR and an LB in rd 3. Now by this time next year, depending on how things turn out, they can trade away one of the 4 people resigned this year and get back what they lost in the 2014 draft.

I actually wouldn't mind trading away a 2013 pick for a 2014 pick, if we can get one of the top 3 CBs or top 3 DEs in the process.

My only issue with it is, we're going to need cheap talent in 2015, cause CJs contract jumps from $12 to $20 million dollars in 2015.

I'm betting they'll find some way to lower his cap number when that happens. Mayhew seems pretty good at finding ways to push money back and if the team is back on track I'm sure CJ will be open to move money around to get more wins since he wont be going anywhere for the rest of his career. Not saying the guy will take less money, just that he'll be willing to change how he gets the money if it means it helps them get better.

The only way to really do that is to:1) extend him; or2) to move some of his salary to guaranteed money down the road

#2 is the option that Mayhew has taken in the past, kicking that can down the road, and it's led us to where we are now, in cap hell. You can only push salary "back" for so long before it comes due.

If Mahew/Schwartz's jobs are really on the line, I see them trading away some 2014 picks for some immediate relief. As bad as it sounds, and I'm not saying they should do it but entertain the idea for a minute.

Lets say they trade away 2014 rd1 for a rd2 and a rd 3 2013, resign Avril, 1 of Durant/Levy, Delmas and Houston; somehow make the cap work for exactly those signings. Then get a premium LT in rd1, a good S and a good DE in rd2 all of whom are immediate starters; add a WR and an LB in rd 3. Now by this time next year, depending on how things turn out, they can trade away one of the 4 people resigned this year and get back what they lost in the 2014 draft.

I actually wouldn't mind trading away a 2013 pick for a 2014 pick, if we can get one of the top 3 CBs or top 3 DEs in the process.

My only issue with it is, we're going to need cheap talent in 2015, cause CJs contract jumps from $12 to $20 million dollars in 2015.

I'm betting they'll find some way to lower his cap number when that happens. Mayhew seems pretty good at finding ways to push money back and if the team is back on track I'm sure CJ will be open to move money around to get more wins since he wont be going anywhere for the rest of his career. Not saying the guy will take less money, just that he'll be willing to change how he gets the money if it means it helps them get better.

The only way to really do that is to:1) extend him; or2) to move some of his salary to guaranteed money down the road

#2 is the option that Mayhew has taken in the past, kicking that can down the road, and it's led us to where we are now, in cap hell. You can only push salary "back" for so long before it comes due.

He'd still have 5 years on his deal at 2015 and if the team is getting into the playoffs then I'm sure Mayhew would be more than happy to kick it down the road. Lets be honest here, Mayhew doesn't seem like he thinks about the future when it comes to cap space.

February 8th, 2013, 3:48 pm

sweetd20

Pro Bowl Player

Joined: October 13th, 2005, 9:03 amPosts: 2451

Re: It's About Damn Time! Peterman Gets the Ax

Calvin's contract is untouchable the only good thing about it is the team has the option on his last two seasons. It will cost them $7 million if they were to buy those two years back but at least they are in control. The real money this season will come when they get Stafford a long term deal that will likely put him in the $14-16 million dollar range. The future savings will come when Suh's contract is gone. I know people on here don't want to hear it but if this team is going to move forward and be competitive on a regular basis they can't pay a QB and a WR big money and have a contract that Suh will sign. I don't want to hear about new TV contracts either because that's just going to up player and agent demands. I understand needing to keep Calvin but it seriously handcuffed this team until at least 2017.

If I were the Lions and depending on how much money they free up (I'd consider moving Suh this season for more room) there are a few moves I'd consider. The first would be to find out what Levitre is looking to sign for and if not totally unreasonable have Modkins convince him to sign with Detroit. The second would be to land Keenan Lewis he's come out saying he's not looking to break the bank because the Steelers are severely cap strapped. But I think a contract averaging between $6-7 million could get him away from Pittsburgh. Next would have Modkins use his past ties with the Bills and get Leodis McKelvin. He could be a solid backup/nickel back and is a very good return man. The next would be to go to Houston with a 4 year $22 million dollar deal. Follow that by throwing a flier out to Will Beatty if the Giants don't lock him up. He shouldn't be a bank breaker and is a really good LT if he can cut down on the penalties. Lastly look to guys like Massaqoui, Donald Jones, or Ramses Barden to fill that big WR role that can stretch the field and/or work the middle of the field.

The Lions are what roughly $5 million under the cap? They should let Raiola go and let Nagy and a rookie or FA fight for the C spot. Look to move Shaun Hill for a conditional 7th rounder, if no takers hold on to him, but tell Moore see you later. I'd also put Scheff out there for a conditional late round pick or let him walk. Lastly move Suh. I really like Suh but the team has no long term viability if they ink him to the contract he is going to sign. If they moved him now to a team like Dallas I think they could very likely get at least their 1st rounder. I believe moving Suh would free up about $6 million this year and even more money would be available next season when he's scheduled to make $17.5 million. I think moving Suh would give them the best shot at being in that talk of being serious contenders in 2014. They are rebuilding thanks to Mayhew and his BPA instead of filling multiple needs with BPA at positions of need. This team needs a solid base of talent not three or four guys taking up 60% of the cap.

February 8th, 2013, 4:26 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: It's About Damn Time! Peterman Gets the Ax

Lions just "restructured" Raiola's deal. I don't know how the hell you re-structure a guy with one year left, but I hope to hell we didn't extend him.

February 14th, 2013, 4:43 pm

kdsberman

Team MVP

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pmPosts: 3426Location: Saginaw, MI

Re: It's About Damn Time! Peterman Gets the Ax

wjb21ndtown wrote:

Lions just "restructured" Raiola's deal. I don't know how the hell you re-structure a guy with one year left, but I hope to hell we didn't extend him.