I didn't say homicide rates (but gun deaths did drop) but mass shootings. They were averaging something on the order of one a year in the 90's and none in 10 years since changing gun laws. Like I said, crime statistics have not shown an appreciable drop that can be directly related to gun laws, but that is not the reason for changing gun laws.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley

Also worth noting for somewhere like Switzerland, ammunition is regulated and everyone is required to serve in the military or reserves, and as such, they must redo their weapons training yearly. I am all for being more like Switzerland.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley

(31-01-2013 11:03 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote: I didn't say homicide rates (but gun deaths did drop) but mass shootings. They were averaging something on the order of one a year in the 90's and none in 10 years since changing gun laws. Like I said, crime statistics have not shown an appreciable drop that can be directly related to gun laws, but that is not the reason for changing gun laws.

But that data is really meaningless. You have only 1 datapoint in the entire history of the country to work with. There's a hoarde of factors which could contribute to mass shootings so a single datapoint is meaningless in the justification of this position.

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

(31-01-2013 11:05 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote: Also worth noting for somewhere like Switzerland, ammunition is regulated and everyone is required to serve in the military or reserves, and as such, they must redo their weapons training yearly. I am all for being more like Switzerland.

For military (militia) purposes, yes. For private ownership, no. Swiss hang on their rifles when they finish their service and all homes keep a sizable amount of ammunition on hand.

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

There are common sense laws and I agree with gun show background checks. But anyone who wants to ban all guns is in my humble opinion an idiot. Criminals would have free roam because no one could defend themselves. Also, places with handgun bans (shitcago) have the highest gun violence rates but lets not address the real issue. Why don't they check mental history and drug use (including perscription). That is something all these shooters have in common they are all nuts and showed signs of being nuts. Still most shootings are done with illegal handguns by gang members. So where do the illegal guns come from?

I think most people are aware of the fact that there are 2 issues but I would reserve my judgement of someone being an idiot simply for supporting a ban on all weapons. Pacifists (like the Dude, man) would support an end to all weapons and are not necessarily idiots and those from cultures where guns are not the norm (as some on this forum are) support weapons bans and are not idiots.

The issue is that people continue to assert that anyone advocating for better gun laws must be advocating for banning all weapons. That is not true. Or that someone advocating for a ban on weapons or better gun laws is of the impression that it will reduce crime and/or eliminate all gun violence. It won't. It is about treating guns as weapons and regulating them properly and treating people like the idiots they are. George Carlin said it best, "think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are stupider than that."

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley

Haha george carlin love it. Yes I agree I understand that rules are not an outright ban. That is why i support some regulation's Im not a fucking NRA member or anything. Pacifists have a warped sense of reality I think man loves him some violence and that will never change. Plus if you have ever been to wards in Houston you would wish you had a gun lol

(31-01-2013 01:53 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote: I think most people are aware of the fact that there are 2 issues but I would reserve my judgement of someone being an idiot simply for supporting a ban on all weapons. Pacifists (like the Dude, man) would support an end to all weapons and are not necessarily idiots and those from cultures where guns are not the norm (as some on this forum are) support weapons bans and are not idiots.

The issue is that people continue to assert that anyone advocating for better gun laws must be advocating for banning all weapons. That is not true. Or that someone advocating for a ban on weapons or better gun laws is of the impression that it will reduce crime and/or eliminate all gun violence. It won't. It is about treating guns as weapons and regulating them properly and treating people like the idiots they are. George Carlin said it best, "think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are stupider than that."

Pacifists are a kind of idealist. In an ideal sense, man can overcome their violent tendencies. It does not mean they have a warped view of reality, just a mentality of peace over violence. I don't agree with them in a perfect sense, but I would not be upset if their reality were to come to fruition.

And Carlin is amazing.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley