peeker643 wrote:Loved the "Where is that guy" intimidation factor he brought.

Someone needs to step up and make plays now. Tons of OSU stars got their chance like this (Lauranitis springs to mind) so there's an opportunity for someone to make their bones.

Dan said this already in the game thread, but Johnson is back from his injury and he was the starter before that, so I hope he really plays well, but he had a rep from the players as extremely physical, so we might really "luck out" in a way that Barnett was injured in lieu of Hines.

Barnett was not particularly excellent during the Marshall Game, but that was his first game. He really stepped up and showed something in that Miami game so this really sucks. Now that said, I love the way this secondary is playing. Is it fundamentally sound? Nope. Is it going to cost us a score or two? Probably, but having a secondary that really hits creates a defensive swagger that cannot be replicated anywhere else. This secondary fucking HITS.

Torrence and Chekwa are about as physical as they come on the corners. Hines and Moeller are fucking animals. Barnett/Johnson come to play too, so this is going to be very entertaining.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

I do not worship at the alter of Chekwa. He is nowhere near the Winfield, Whitner, Doss, Springs, Plummer, Clements, Jenkins, Youboty or Gamble level. He is a serviceable CB for an elite team. He does NOT give OSU the ability to just put him on the best receiver and forget about that side of the field, but he is good enough to cover pretty much everyone in the B10 most of the time. I really wish he would turn around and actually look at the fucking ball, and quit chasing. He has a bad habit of letting WRs get behind him and the playing catchup.

He kind of reminds me of Youboty a lot. Youboty was better in coverage, but the two are very similar in the way that they step up and play the run. Torrence looked great against the run last week. He beat a couple of blocks to make solo open field tackles on the outside a couple times last week.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

furls wrote:I do not worship at the alter of Chekwa. He is nowhere near the Winfield, Whitner, Doss, Springs, Plummer, Clements, Jenkins, Youboty or Gamble level. He is a serviceable CB for an elite team. He does NOT give OSU the ability to just put him on the best receiver and forget about that side of the field, but he is good enough to cover pretty much everyone in the B10 most of the time. I really wish he would turn around and actually look at the fucking ball, and quit chasing. He has a bad habit of letting WRs get behind him and the playing catchup.

He kind of reminds me of Youboty a lot. Youboty was better in coverage, but the two are very similar in the way that they step up and play the run. Torrence looked great against the run last week. He beat a couple of blocks to make solo open field tackles on the outside a couple times last week.

I was about to write a response refuting this but then you went another direction in the 2nd paragraph that hit the nail on the head IMO.

I was just about to write that he is very much like Youboty IMO, Chekwa not as good as him as a pure cover, but I think Chekwa is more athletic and seems bigger(don't have the numbers in front of me).

I have never been a huge fan of Chekwa compared to some of our top flight #1's but he is physical and more than solid at the corner and a very good tackler in space and in run support. On this D he shouldn't normally need to be anything more than that.

I thought Torrence may step up and have one of those big senior seasons, but as a Pair not many have a better top 2 in the B10 IMO, and maybe you could expand that further.

I would say we will be able to say we have 2 above average corners who are extremely physical, tackle well in space and support the run well and have good size and athleticism. Thats a pretty good skill set IMO.

Okay, I dig that. Because that's about what I think of the kid. More physical than average but not in the same discussion as the DB greats the school has turned out and with coverage skills that seem to wax and wane.

What will help the Buckeyes, Chekwa and Johnson more than anything is continued development and pressure from the boys up front. Easier to keep cats in front of ya that way.

Checkwa kind of reminds me of Gary Berry. They are both about the same size. They are adequate, but not spectacular. You don't hate having them out there, but they don't give you the same feeling as Malcom Jenkins or Antoine Winfield either.

When it's all said and done, people won't remember Checkwa harshly, but just like Berry, when someone makes a list of great OSU db's, he won't be on it either.

I don't mean this as a slam either. An average OSU DB is a pretty damn good football player.

My bitch with the OSU corners has been what I see as a function of coaching more than ability.

It can't be a coincidence that they all seem to play the same way...they get engaged physically with the receiver...pawing at them...hands on...facing up to them...not reacting to the thrown ball...not looking back to try to make a play on the ball. Chekwa did a better job of this last week...especially on the one deep fade in the end zone. OSU didn't have a pass interference call go against them for the first time in several games going back to last year (though they easily could have on CC in the end zone)

Even on Chekwa's two picks vs Miami...the first one was thrown right to him...the receiver never knew the ball was thrown and it wasn't near him. On the second one, he was facing the receiver, and when Benjamin bobbled the ball after it hit him in the hands, Chekwa happened to be face to face with him, and just took the ball away.

Two points I try to remember as I evaluate our corner play...first, I think cornerback is the hardest job in all of team sports...you gotta be tough enough to be solid in run support and come up and tackle 230 lb running backs...and fast and agile enough to cover the other team's best and fastest athletes 30 yards down the field...it's even harder, obviously, in the NFL.

and second, like most of you have pointed out, at OSU, there are a lot of tough acts to follow.

I love the size and toughness of all the OSU DB's. They take the heart out of the opposition by the second half. The same is true for the entire OSU defense though. I felt a twinge of sympathy for Jacory Harris after about the fourth or fifth time he got laid out after a pass by Simon or Williams or Cam...and you could see he was hurting...limping big time as he tried to get back up...receivers the same way.

I don't think Hines has gotten the props he deserved for the game he played Saturday. he just KILLS people out there. The Miami receivers were looking for him and Barnett after the first couple of shots. Rolle and Homan take the courage right out of the opposition too, by the time they've put a couple of hits on running backs or receivers. I love it.

A light came on for Jim Heacock after the 2nd NC game loss in 2007. He decided then and there that he had to have a punishing, physical defense that takes a physical toll on the opposition on every play. If you aren't willing and able to do that, you can't play for him. I have no doubt he is absolutely aware of what he gives up in coverage ability at the CB spots that he gladly trades for having guys who are all 6'1", 200 lbs, and hit like freight trains.

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

wiz1001 wrote:A light came on for Jim Heacock after the 2nd NC game loss in 2007. He decided then and there that he had to have a punishing, physical defense that takes a physical toll on the opposition on every play. If you aren't willing and able to do that, you can't play for him. I have no doubt he is absolutely aware of what he gives up in coverage ability at the CB spots that he gladly trades for having guys who are all 6'1", 200 lbs, and hit like freight trains.

I agree with this, I guess I don't see the lack of pure cover skills as THAT big a knock on these guys, particularly at the college level.

Tackling in SpaceTackling in run supportIntimidationSizeAthleticism

All these things are strengths of Chekwa and above to well above average in the NCAA.

He's really not all that bad in pure covering, just never going to be one to put on an island.

And I can't help but keep pointing out that we will not see a better pair of WR's and QB all season. Closest and toughest will be Iowa, but thier WR's are better than Iowa's and at best Stanzi is a push, and that's being damn generous to Stanzi.

The rest are kind of all about the same. I am more concerned about CB going forward for tOSU. There isn't alot behind the starters right now. Travis Howard is supposed to be pretty good, but he really hasn't gotten any gameday reps. Donnie E. is who we think he is (a guy that is supposed to really come on every spring only to vanish by fall). Pitts Brown is probably our best hope on the team right now to cover one of those spots, but you have to wonder if there is room for a super freshman from the class of '11 to break into the starting line up. Doran Grant could be the guy, or Jabari Gorman, or Derjuan Gambrell.

I like all 3. Grant is the best athlete. At 6'2" 180 you have to like Gambrell's measurables. Jabari Gorman has all kinds of quicks, and probably the best hips of the group.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

For me, the cornerback play in this spring's jersey scrimmage was the high point of the day...and neither starter played at all.

Travis Howard and Corey Brown played with the starters, and looked like starters. Both kids are really tough...they covered well, and they have the same size/tackling/toughness factor of the current starters. Evege and Dominic Clarke also both played very well with the 2's, and I was knocked out by what I saw from true freshman Bradley Roby that day...essentially our 7th corner right now. This kid will play as a Buckeye...and probably sooner instead of later. Next year's starters will almost certainly be Brown and Howard, and I'll predict that many of us will consider them an improvement over this year's starters...at least by the end of the season.

Bryant could play at corner anytime they say the word, and Grant is a Buckeye, and he may see the field very early too. I think the position is in great shape going forward. I see Brown as a three-year starter here, and an all-conference type player.

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

You know Dan, I keep forgetting about Bradley Roby. No offense to the kid because I am really excited about him and the other guy that keep forgetting about, Christian Bryant. I heard that Pitts Brown needed some work, but I didn't see it for myself. I will defer to you on this because we tend to be eerily in lock step on almost all things related to the Bucks.

I think Doran Grant is going to get on the field early. That kid is physically off the charts (I am pretty sure that he is the all time SPARQ rating leader) and he is still a very fluid athlete. I remember reading somewhere that he has a max bench at 335 or so, not bad for a kid that weighs 175. I think he may be underrated nationally (even though scout has him as #2 CB and Rivals has him #1). I think he could actually be the top recruit in the country this year.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

furls wrote:You know Dan, I keep forgetting about Bradley Roby. No offense to the kid because I am really excited about him and the other guy that keep forgetting about, Christian Bryant. I heard that Pitts Brown needed some work, but I didn't see it for myself. I will defer to you on this because we tend to be eerily in lock step on almost all things related to the Bucks.

I think Doran Grant is going to get on the field early. That kid is physically off the charts (I am pretty sure that he is the all time SPARQ rating leader) and he is still a very fluid athlete. I remember reading somewhere that he has a max bench at 335 or so, not bad for a kid that weighs 175. I think he may be underrated nationally (even though scout has him as #2 CB and Rivals has him #1). I think he could actually be the top recruit in the country this year.

Honestly guys IMO we can count Bryant out at CB unless its a disaster out there.

He has outstanding cover skills for a safety and he brings the wood. I think the only reason he'd rep at CB is if we have some really incapable CB's taking over next season.

I agree with Furls that Grant plays and maybe even starts if he commits here. Since I have been following recruiting we have never brought in a corner with his combination of size, speed, and ability. He is a truly elite level talent at the position.

Hell I can't even think of many I'd compare him to that we recruited heavily....Harris was good but not Grant-good, maybe eric berry would be - talking about an elite talent DB here - the last DB will his ability that we were really after. No we never really ended up with a good shot, but we got him on campus for an official that year.

You MIGHT say Brown was that type and according to recruiting databases he would be on that level, but I think Grant is a step above at this stage.

Dan I remember reading your notes regarding those backups at CB, and I hope you are right. Brown was a guy I was really was excited about but haven't heard much from yet.

wiz1001 wrote:Considering that Brown is a redshirt freshman and already in the two-deep, it's hard to argue he's in any way slow in his development. At least that's the way I choose to look at it.

The last kid we recruited who was rated as the #1 cornerback in the country never played a down at cornerback for OSU. Ted Ginn Jr.

Well, wiz I didn't want to sound like I had given up on him or anything, but he just wasn't one of the fast-starters and I haven't seen him much/at all yet. I would never cash in the chips of a RFR kid. I'm just saying I don't personally know because I haven't seen or read much since he got here.

As for Teddy, remember the guys I listed came after him, and this may be a little hindsight 20/20, but Teddy, I'm not sure they really did a good job evaluating him as a CB. After having watched him for years, I just didn't see a CB at ALL.

There is nothing that I have seen that makes me think he would have been 1/2 as special playing on defense.

There were alot of basic WR concepts that Teddy flat out never got good at while playing WR. He also didn't have alot of lateral quickness, for instance, Harvin by comparison was an entirely different type of player, he had and has amazing lateral quicks that Teddy didn't and never will.

I don't think his epic straight line speed combined with lack of physicality and lateral quickness was a good fit for CB, particularly here.

wiz1001 wrote:Considering that Brown is a redshirt freshman and already in the two-deep, it's hard to argue he's in any way slow in his development. At least that's the way I choose to look at it.

The last kid we recruited who was rated as the #1 cornerback in the country never played a down at cornerback for OSU. Ted Ginn Jr.

Well, wiz I didn't want to sound like I had given up on him or anything, but he just wasn't one of the fast-starters and I haven't seen him much/at all yet. I would never cash in the chips of a RFR kid. I'm just saying I don't personally know because I haven't seen or read much since he got here.

As for Teddy, remember the guys I listed came after him, and this may be a little hindsight 20/20, but Teddy, I'm not sure they really did a good job evaluating him as a CB. After having watched him for years, I just didn't see a CB at ALL.

There is nothing that I have seen that makes me think he would have been 1/2 as special playing on defense.

There were alot of basic WR concepts that Teddy flat out never got good at while playing WR. He also didn't have alot of lateral quickness, for instance, Harvin by comparison was an entirely different type of player, he had and has amazing lateral quicks that Teddy didn't and never will.

I don't think his epic straight line speed combined with lack of physicality and lateral quickness was a good fit for CB, particularly here.

JMO though.

No disagreement at all on Ginn. If they had played him at corner based on his high school or recruiting service rankings I think it would have been a failed experiment. He wasn't a corner. Shows you what recruiting service rankings are worth.

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

wiz1001 wrote:My bitch with the OSU corners has been what I see as a function of coaching more than ability.

It can't be a coincidence that they all seem to play the same way...they get engaged physically with the receiver...pawing at them...hands on...facing up to them...not reacting to the thrown ball...not looking back to try to make a play on the bal.

It's not a coincidence - it's the way they're are taught. But from the looks of it 90% of all coaches teach the exact same thing when the CB is playing man coverage- facing the WR and playing inside technique - keeping him toward the boundary and away from the center of the field. They are taught, typically, not to turn and look until the WR is about to make on the ball. Not ideal, but usually much easier to execute than having CBs always peeking in the backfield and losing contact with the WRs and giving up big plays. That's why the back shoulder fade route is so common, especially in the end zone against man coverage.

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team

The Buckeyes play a lot of over/under coverage which puts the CB in trail technique by design. There really is not much you are going to do about it. Could these guys turn and look for the ball, yes, but at the same time there coverage typically calls for them to play the man more than the ball.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

Good points all, but at some point you have to respond to the way officials are defining pass interference....where the DB's casual glance back toward the line is enough for them to excuse all manner of pawing and arm-bar technique while the ball is in the air....(something that, IMO, should be pass interference no matter what direction the DB is looking at the time). In the last couple seasons, OSU corners get called for PI way too often...for two reasons, as far as I can see....first, they aren't looking back for the ball early or often enough...and second, they're keeping their hands on the receiver too long after the ball is in the air. The combination of the two will get an interference call more times than not. Not saying it's correct, but it is the way officials call PI in today's CFB.

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

peeker643 wrote:Y'all are so much higher on Chekwa than I am. Not sure what I'm missing because there are seemingly two or three plays every game where he looks lost, beaten or both.

Just not a fan. I mean, he's okay back there. Experienced, athletic, etc., but in Buckeye DB tradition I find him sorely lacking.

+1, seems like every time we were burned last yr, it was Chekwa looking around like a little girl trying to find her puppy.

I keep thinking people must be referring to completions as being "burned"...no matter what, the goal for OSU is going to be designing the D to never allow big plays, inherent in that is going to be some longer drives, some completions for 1st downs, etc.

How many times was Chekwa burned for pass plays over 25 yards last season? Hell how many times was the defense as a whole burned for more than a 25 yard gain?

I think you have to evaluate players and the defensive performance as a whole with the game plan or scheme as the framework for that.

It changes a bit pending the opponent, but generally speaking this defense is designed to apply pressure to the QB and to make him get many, many plays correct in a row in order to score. Keeping the ball in front of them is simply a higher priority than deflecting a pass or intercepting the ball.

Now, I know Chekwa is not a premier cover guy, but I think that expecting blanket, tight coverage with the DB playing off the QB more so than the receiver is going to BK to order a big mac. By that what I'm trying to say is if the scheme called for the type of CB play some would like to see, Chekwa would probably do better than you'd expect. I think he takes some unnecessary lumps on account of the scheme.

In defense of the OSU DB's....outside of the 80-yard TD completion against Navy in the 2009 opener (a fairly short completion and a long RAC), there were actually very few downfield pass completions of any length against OSU all season. Two times in the Iowa game they gave up fairly long (25+ yds)completions (one time it was Chekwa getting beat, the other time it was Torrence) but beyond those three completions, I would challenge anyone to show me (or remind me of) the OSU DB's getting "burned" downfield all last season. It just didn't happen.

I see Coz beat me to this point....barely

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

That has been the hallmark of the OSU defense every year, no BIG PLAYS. I had chronicalled every long play in a thread like 2 years ago (play over 40 yards). I literally reviewed every game, and the Bucks had not given up a TD > 40 yards from 2003 (or 04) SDSU game till the time I had wrote the post (I think it was sometime in '06 or '07). It is the epitomy of the bend but don't break, give up the 3-5 yard pass with the emphasis on taking away the deep/intermediate routes. As a by product, you are going to give up some yards and some completions.

Chekwa is a decent CB, I just don't think he is at the Jenkins, Gamble level (top 10 draft picks). We are a bit spoiled here at OSU; we take for granted that teams don't (generally score) long TDs on our D, we get pissed off every time there is a completion (at all) and god forbid a team pick up a first down on the ground. It is nice that we can set our standards that high and not be disappointed most of time, but at the same time, you have to take a breath and enjoy the beauty of OSU football today. We have beat scUM in every game from 2001-present except the '03 game; the Bucks now lead for the most BCS appearances; they have played for 3 NC's; and are recruiting at the highest levels of NCAAF ensure more of the same for at least the next 5 years. We are the NY Yankees of NCAAF, everyone loves or hates the Bucks, and it is because of our team's success. So please just take a second to revel in the beauty of what we are living through.

This happened once upon a time with tribe, and I didn't appreciate it as much until they were gone, so make sure you are loving every minute of our Buckeyes success because one day they may go 9-3 or God Forbid 8-4.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

furls wrote:Chekwa is a decent CB, I just don't think he is at the Jenkins, Gamble level (top 10 draft picks). We are a bit spoiled here at OSU; we take for granted that teams don't (generally score) long TDs on our D, we get pissed off every time there is a completion (at all) and god forbid a team pick up a first down on the ground. It is nice that we can set our standards that high and not be disappointed most of time, but at the same time, you have to take a breath and enjoy the beauty of OSU football today.

That's very fair right there. I can go with that. And that's what I was trying to convey. I think he's decent but not much more and that he truly does have a long lineage of guys before him who, in my mind, just did it better. Maybe it's not fair to compare but I believe it's a natural tendency.

furls wrote:Chekwa is a decent CB, I just don't think he is at the Jenkins, Gamble level (top 10 draft picks). We are a bit spoiled here at OSU; we take for granted that teams don't (generally score) long TDs on our D, we get pissed off every time there is a completion (at all) and god forbid a team pick up a first down on the ground. It is nice that we can set our standards that high and not be disappointed most of time, but at the same time, you have to take a breath and enjoy the beauty of OSU football today.

That's very fair right there. I can go with that. And that's what I was trying to convey. I think he's decent but not much more and that he truly does have a long lineage of guys before him who, in my mind, just did it better. Maybe it's not fair to compare but I believe it's a natural tendency.

I'll say this though, even though Chekwa is not a Jenkins, Winfield, Springs, Gamble.....this is a fairly potent 1-2 combo for the bucks....

How bout this.....what better combined 1-2's have we seen the last 10 seasons?

Is Gamble-Fox better than Chekwa-Torrence? How about Jenkins-Washington (when he wasn't, uh, busy.) Jenkins-Chekwa, Jenkins-Smith, Youboty-Underwood?

I like Gamble-Fox 02-03, Jenkins-Washington 07(even though it was very short lived, maybe 6-8 games) And Jenkins-Chekwa in 08 better....

Of course since secondary is more of a unit-based deal, you might want to expand to cover the safeties.

You aren't going to beat 02 in that regard, but I can see this year pushing themselves up to #2 in the Tress era if Johnson is equal to or better than Barnett, which isn't that much of a stretch....

Moving even FURTHER, you may be seeing the best nickel D of the past 10 (and maybe beyond) when you plug in Moeller.

Our nickel is so effective we will run it against Pro-sets on 1st and 2nd down this season as we did against Miami.

furls wrote: please just take a second to revel in the beauty of what we are living through.

I say it all the time. These are the good old days.

One of the beat guys that I respect a lot thinks that neither of the current starting corners is likely to end up as a cornerback starter in the NFL. As Furls suggests, most every team in college football could say the same thing, but around here, talk like that is a rare thing, (if not a punishable heresy.)

Defending the OSU defense in terms of not giving up big pass plays is not the same thing as saying that their corners are first round draft picks....or even 2nd or 3rd rounders. This year, they're quite possibly not. (In other words, I'm not sure who the Chekwa doubters are arguing against) I'm inclined to think they'll both be on some NFL roster next year, and we'll see how they fare. Who knows, it's possible they both could project as safeties at the next level...like Malcolm Jenkins was viewed by lots of NFL scouts.

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

furls wrote: please just take a second to revel in the beauty of what we are living through.

I say it all the time. These are the good old days.

Dunno Wiz.

Cooper used to crank out studs like a retired thoroughbred. tSV Era suffers by comparison.. Just MO.

And no one is as weird as Rob kelly, so hat's a minus there, too.

Whoa, I don't think he was talking about NFL studs (where you'd be right the Pro QUALITY was higher then) as much as College success of the team in general, which I'm sure you'd agree is way, way, above the Coop era.

Coop/Pagac were the guys who advocated having the super corners on an Island while the silver bullets flew....

How'd that work out for us? I'd say anyone who lived through the 90's should be squarely content with the current approach, where one CB slip won't collapse an entire season.

furls wrote: please just take a second to revel in the beauty of what we are living through.

I say it all the time. These are the good old days.

Dunno Wiz.

Cooper used to crank out studs like a retired thoroughbred. tSV Era suffers by comparison.. Just MO.

And no one is as weird as Rob kelly, so hat's a minus there, too.

Whoa, I don't think he was talking about NFL studs (where you'd be right the Pro QUALITY was higher then) as much as College success of the team in general, which I'm sure you'd agree is way, way, above the Coop era.

Coop/Pagac were the guys who advocated having the super corners on an Island while the silver bullets flew....

How'd that work out for us? I'd say anyone who lived through the 90's should be squarely content with the current approach, where one CB slip won't collapse an entire season.

Don't mix apples and oranges, Coz. Agree with you, but just saying as far as DB studs the Coop Era was the good old days. They played in waves, and gamble was a Cooper kid as well. Not bitching about Chekwa BTW.

everyone loves or hates the Bucks, and it is because of our team's success. So please just take a second to revel in the beauty of what we are living through.

The consistent level of the team's success is what makes these the good old days. Sorry that wasn't more clear.

Someday we can sit back and compare the Cooper studs with the (ongoing)Tressel studs over a brew or two. Right now, with Winfield, Springs and Gamble recruited by Coop, he has to have the edge in the CB stud sweepstakes (though Gamble never played for Coop, he was recruited by him)

...and then we can tally up the arrest records and grade point averages of the players in both eras too...and the Big Ten titles and Michigan wins and Academic All-Big Ten numbers, etc....and NFL draft choices at all other positions...etc....and chokes in Big Ten games against weaker teams...etc.

Sayin'

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

furls wrote: please just take a second to revel in the beauty of what we are living through.

I say it all the time. These are the good old days.

Dunno Wiz.

Cooper used to crank out studs like a retired thoroughbred. tSV Era suffers by comparison.. Just MO.

And no one is as weird as Rob kelly, so hat's a minus there, too.

Whoa, I don't think he was talking about NFL studs (where you'd be right the Pro QUALITY was higher then) as much as College success of the team in general, which I'm sure you'd agree is way, way, above the Coop era.

Coop/Pagac were the guys who advocated having the super corners on an Island while the silver bullets flew....

How'd that work out for us? I'd say anyone who lived through the 90's should be squarely content with the current approach, where one CB slip won't collapse an entire season.

Don't mix apples and oranges, Coz. Agree with you, but just saying as far as DB studs the Coop Era was the good old days. They played in waves, and gamble was a Cooper kid as well. Not bitching about Chekwa BTW.

wiz1001 wrote:I guess I should have included a bit more of the Furls quote:

everyone loves or hates the Bucks, and it is because of our team's success. So please just take a second to revel in the beauty of what we are living through.

The consistent level of the team's success is what makes these the good old days. Sorry that wasn't more clear.

Someday we can sit back and compare the Cooper studs with the (ongoing)Tressel studs over a brew or two. Right now, with Winfield, Springs and Gamble recruited by Coop, he has to have the edge in the CB stud sweepstakes (though Gamble never played for Coop, he was recruited by him)

...and then we can tally up the arrest records and grade point averages of the players in both eras too...and the Big Ten titles and Michigan wins and Academic All-Big Ten numbers, etc....and NFL draft choices at all other positions...etc....and chokes in Big Ten games against weaker teams...etc.

Sayin'

Danny, completely unprovable question for you....

Had Maetchicken been in the Moellar years instead of piss poor, how do you think these Tress treams stack up? Even in 2006 with henne and Hart and manningham, I never thought they were as good as the Grbac year.

Tressel is credited with landing Gamble after he took the OSU gig...the class was kind of lackluster before he took the job and landed Gamble and solidified people like Dustin Fox among others. I knew Gamble never played for Coop, but when you swing Gamble into the Tressel camp along with Jenkins, it does sort of equal out Winfield and Springs on the Coop side of the equation.

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

Had Maetchicken been in the Moellar years instead of piss poor, how do you think these Tress treams stack up? Even in 2006 with henne and Hart and manningham, I never thought they were as good as the Grbac year.

Just some idle chatter as tOSU doesn't have a real game for 4 weeks.

Yeah, if the Michigan teams of the last decade had been as good as some of those really strong UM teams, the Buckeyes wouldn't be 8-1 against them. I do think JT's teams of '02, '05, and '06 were as good as any of them, though.