how are you going to argue religion if you don't have one, or you have multiple? at least have one religion and stick with, or don't argue cause you can't even choose your own religion.

Shakyamunison

Choosing not to choose is still a choice.

Not having a religion does not disqualify a person from the debate.

Alliance

nor does having one make you capable of debating.

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by Alliance
nor does having one make you capable of debating.

Having a religion is not a qualifier or dis-qualifier.

Alliance

and everyone has religious philosophies.

debbiejo

Originally posted by Legion_of_Maul
how are you going to argue religion if you don't have one, or you have multiple? at least have one religion and stick with, or don't argue cause you can't even choose your own religion. Also people DO change beliefs during their lifetimes also.........Soooo people don't always stick with what they were raised as...

Justbyfaith

Originally posted by Alliance
nor does having one make you capable of debating.

Everyone has a religion or belief/opinion on origins system.

Justbyfaith

Originally posted by Alliance
and everyone has religious philosophies.

Even Secularists...thank you Alliance for this truth.

xmarksthespot

Originally posted by Alliance
nor does having one make you capable of debating. Case in point:
Originally posted by Legion_of_Maul
how are you going to argue religion if you don't have one, or you have multiple? at least have one religion and stick with, or don't argue cause you can't even choose your own religion.

Alliance

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Case in point:
You are clearly confused on what I said.

Anyone is capable of debating relgion.

xmarksthespot

Meh.. I was just juxtaposing your statements to make a sardonic comment about the idiocy of this thread.

Big words are fun.

debbiejo

Xmark........time to post a picture of god agian....

You know......the one with the tail....

Alliance

meh.

xmarksthespot

Originally posted by debbiejo
Xmark........time to post a picture of god agian....

You know......the one with the tail.... Better yet.. god and his friends.
http://www.funwithspot.com/img/homePageSplash.gif

debbiejo

I love god.......he's so soft...and he likes to play.....

http://www.funwithspot.com/house.asp?locale=US

Alliance

and androgenous

autumn dreams

Originally posted by Legion_of_Maul
how are you going to argue religion if you don't have one, or you have multiple? at least have one religion and stick with, or don't argue cause you can't even choose your own religion.

A person with no religious beliefs can still argue against religion. I chose not to believe in any particular religion-is that such a bad thing?

Scythe

I believe a being with such immense power such as God, or Lucifer shouldn't exist, it's very unnatural.

Alliance

/unbalanced?

Scythe

Much like life.

Alliance

Its all aobut dynamic.

Storm

Originally posted by Legion_of_Maul
how are you going to argue religion if you don't have one, or you have multiple? at least have one religion and stick with, or don't argue cause you can't even choose your own religion.
This doesn' t mean people haven' t been taught about religion.

Wonderer

So, why are the atheists here arguing religion? I thought an atheist wants nothing to do with relogion!?

Alliance

ARGH! Read this thread... Its only a page and a half.

Storm

Originally posted by Wonderer
So, why are the atheists here arguing religion? I thought an atheist wants nothing to do with relogion!?
Being an atheist doesn' t automatically mean being against religion. Some atheists have relatively neutral feelings towards religion, some have relatively positive feelings towards religion, and some are even quite religious themselves. There is a wide variety of opinions about religion among atheists.
Atheism is even compatible with religion. Atheism is about nothing more than belief in the existence of gods: specifically, atheists have none. Atheism is the absence of belief in the existence of any gods, not the absence of religion, the absence of belief in the supernatural, the absence of superstitions, the absence of irrational beliefs, etc.

Wonderer

Originally posted by Storm
Being an atheist doesn' t automatically mean being against religion. Some atheists have relatively neutral feelings towards religion, some have relatively positive feelings towards religion, and some are even quite religious themselves. There is a wide variety of opinions about religion among atheists.
Atheism is even compatible with religion. Atheism is about nothing more than belief in the existence of gods: specifically, atheists have none. Atheism is the absence of belief in the existence of any gods, not the absence of religion, the absence of belief in the supernatural, the absence of superstitions, the absence of irrational beliefs, etc.
What do you mean? Atheists and religion don't mix.

Storm

Some humanists call themselves religious and many members of Unitarian-Universalism and Ethical Culture societies are also nonbelievers. What you then have is a religious atheist.

lil bitchiness

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Choosing not to choose is still a choice.

Not having a religion does not disqualify a person from the debate.

But a very bad one, in my honest opinion. Choosing not to choose is already a wrong choice.

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
But a very bad one, in my honest opinion. Choosing not to choose is already a wrong choice.

I have to agree with you, but it took me 20 years to realize that. Or should I say, it took me 20 years to be ready for the Lotus sutra.

Bardock42

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
But a very bad one, in my honest opinion. Choosing not to choose is already a wrong choice.

And to somehow happen to make a right guess, is better....how?

SP90

Oh come on ! Anyone who says people with no religion are blind or something similar is an idiot. It would be the opposite if anything !

Choosing a religion is trusting without justification, it is raw conformism. I am not part of any pre-made belief, I am still searching for the truth. I don't really get why you should stick to a religion instead of researching like any intelligent person would. Some people are stuck to their atheism as much as people are stuck to their religions, both are bad but at least atheists don't believe in the teaching of a 2000 years old book that was probably written by an old man with nothing better to do.

So basically, being part of a religion is choosing the easy way, having an answer to everything without having to search far. God does everything, well this is quite a reasoning !

thorncrawler

you cant knock people for being strong enough to believe what ever they want, be that the fact of god/gods or lack off, reincarnation and all that stuff.

i'm 22 and i'd love to be religious but i don't knw what i want to believe so does that make me religous or not?

SP90

thorncrawler, that makes you someone who is searching for simplicity and conformity because you are scared of not knowing.

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by SP90
Oh come on ! Anyone who says people with no religion are blind or something similar is an idiot. It would be the opposite if anything !

Choosing a religion is trusting without justification, it is raw conformism. I am not part of any pre-made belief, I am still searching for the truth. I don't really get why you should stick to a religion instead of researching like any intelligent person would. Some people are stuck to their atheism as much as people are stuck to their religions, both are bad but at least atheists don't believe in the teaching of a 2000 years old book that was probably written by an old man with nothing better to do.

So basically, being part of a religion is choosing the easy way, having an answer to everything without having to search far. God does everything, well this is quite a reasoning !

I disagree. You maybe 80% right, but you are 20% wrong. Some people, like myself, spend a lifetime searching for the truth that fits them, and then they find it. Should they keep searching? I don't think so. When you find the truth that fits you, will you turn your back on it if it just because it is a religion? Remember, there is a lot more to the world then Christianity.

SP90

Yeah, like a religion could be all logical and fit you entirely. I respect people who are part of a religion but know it's not perfectly accurate though.

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by SP90
Yeah, like a religion could be all logical and fit you entirely. I respect people who are part of a religion but know it's not perfectly accurate though.

You know nothing about me religion, I would bet. My religion my not fit you, but it fits me.

SP90

Buddhism ? Yes, it is one of the most respectable religions...

Alliance

In your opinion...one that is not shered by all.

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by Alliance
In your opinion...one that is not shered by all.

Nothing is ever sheared by all. You will always disagree.

Alliance

not always.

Regret

I think he could agree to disagree with that one

Alliance

O Green World

I've always wondered what an atheists reason for existing is... Since they don't really have to exist anyways, when they die they'll dissappear so....what's the point in living when it's all in vain?

O Green World

Not to discourage anyone or anything...

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by O Green World
Not to discourage anyone or anything...

Like I believe that.

Storm

Originally posted by O Green World
I've always wondered what an atheists reason for existing is... Since they don't really have to exist anyways, when they die they'll dissappear so....what's the point in living when it's all in vain?
When someone else imposes upon us a purpose of their own design, aren' t we little more than slaves?

Life is meaningless only if you want it to be meaningless or let it be meaningless. Meaning cannot be imposed from the outside. If a person' s life has meaning, it is because of what that person values - and that, in turn, relies upon the character and experiences of that person as an individual.

Alliance

Originally posted by O Green World
I've always wondered what an atheists reason for existing is... Since they don't really have to exist anyways, when they die they'll dissappear so....what's the point in living when it's all in vain?
Whats in vain? Why not try to make the world a better place. Focus on the here and now...instead of having our heads in the fricken clouds.

TheSpinner

Originally posted by Legion_of_Maul
how are you going to argue religion if you don't have one, or you have multiple? at least have one religion and stick with, or don't argue cause you can't even choose your own religion.

Hmmm...

1) don't argue abortion unless you have had one.
2) don't argue homosexuality unless you are one
2) don't argue capital punishment unless you died by one

Makes too much sense!....... a religion is more of a belief. I think when you get to that stage, you are already biased and you may even be already brainwashed. and the one without that belief could be a more rational debater in that case and may be your savior from your own religion. ......and I may not have a religion yet because I am still thinking about which of them is more right

Regret

Originally posted by Storm
When someone else imposes upon us a purpose of their own design, aren' t we little more than slaves?

Life is meaningless only if you want it to be meaningless or let it be meaningless. Meaning cannot be imposed from the outside. If a person' s life has meaning, it is because of what that person values - and that, in turn, relies upon the character and experiences of that person as an individual.

So, would locus of absolute, or perhaps relative, control be the issue when objectively viewing religious attitude whether Atheist, Agnostic or some denomination?

The real difference being amount of control one believes one has as far as personal existence.

Alliance

Originally posted by TheSpinner
......and I may not have a religion yet because I am still thinking about which of them is more right
or realizing that none of them are.

TheSpinner

Originally posted by O Green World
I've always wondered what an atheists reason for existing is... Since they don't really have to exist anyways, when they die they'll dissappear so....what's the point in living when it's all in vain?

So they can make you feel more important than what you really are, just because you have something ............................that they do not even need or want.
If a religion does not teach tolerance then it is a FALSE religion. because GOD almighty is all about TOLERANCE and LOVE my dear friend.
Not to discourage or anything from having a religion, just make sure you don't have a FALSE one.

TheSpinner

Originally posted by Alliance
or realizing that none of them are.

You said it yourself! So don't blame the atheists! or are you one?

Alliance

I am.

TheSpinner

Originally posted by Alliance
I am.

Damn! you guys seem to be everywhere. Cool!

But seriously do you guys believe in GOD or some kind of intelligence or anything of the sort. I mean what is the general idea? Please educate me a little. I am so deficient in this matter.

Thanks

Alliance

Why do you feel you are deficient?

Lord Urizen

Originally posted by Legion_of_Maul
how are you going to argue religion if you don't have one, or you have multiple? at least have one religion and stick with, or don't argue cause you can't even choose your own religion.

You don't have to be religious to understand religion.

A General and/or extensive knowledge of religion is enough to participate in a religious debate, ESPECIALLY in the debate that deals with social issues.

debbiejo

Originally posted by TheSpinner
Damn! you guys seem to be everywhere. Cool!

But seriously do you guys believe in GOD or some kind of intelligence or anything of the sort. I mean what is the general idea? Please educate me a little. I am so deficient in this matter.

Thanks I believe there is some sort of intelligence. Even on the sub atomic level things that we cannot see act in an intelligent way. There seems to be attractions and forces that pull things to and against you.......though we may not understand exactly why this happens, we are learning that indeed it DOES happen......

Alliance

Originally posted by TheSpinner
Damn! you guys seem to be everywhere. Cool!

But seriously do you guys believe in GOD or some kind of intelligence or anything of the sort. I mean what is the general idea? Please educate me a little. I am so deficient in this matter.

Thanks

Athiests by definiton do not believe in god or any god-like being. Atheism in itself lacks a central religious dogma beyond this, making it not really a relgion, but more a religious philosophy. There is much variation and dabate about lesser influences...but mainly athiest agree that if there is some sort of supernatural "intelligence" or the like...it is not conscious.

Personally. I don't believe that there is anything drivng the universe. There are natural laws which we can discover through questioning, logic, and science. These laws pphsyically make things the way they are. I like to think of a library as my place of worship. I believe the greatest authority/power available is man and that we control our own destiny. Your life will be what you make of it. Thats a biref introduction. I don't like spewing personal belifs that have few direct sociological ramifications.

TheSpinner

Originally posted by Alliance
Athiests by definiton do not believe in god or any god-like being. Atheism in itself lacks a central religious dogma beyond this, making it not really a relgion, but more a religious philosophy. There is much variation and dabate about lesser influences...but mainly athiest agree that if there is some sort of supernatural "intelligence" or the like...it is not conscious.

Personally. I don't believe that there is anything drivng the universe. There are natural laws which we can discover through questioning, logic, and science. These laws pphsyically make things the way they are. I like to think of a library as my place of worship. I believe the greatest authority/power available is man and that we control our own destiny. Your life will be what you make of it. Thats a biref introduction. I don't like spewing personal belifs that have few direct sociological ramifications.

Thanks Alliance, my being deficient was in reference to the fact that I did not have a clear understanding of atheism and its philosophies regarding the understanding and explaining of the extraordinary. I was just kind of guessing that if atheists did not believe in GOD that they must believe at least in some system or concept of some sort. based on which they develop their understanding and explanations of things.

Originally posted by Debbiejo

I believe there is some sort of intelligence. Even on the sub atomic level things that we cannot see act in an intelligent way. There seems to be attractions and forces that pull things to and against you.......though we may not understand exactly why this happens, we are learning that indeed it DOES happen......

Thanks Debbiejo, and I do tend to agree with what you have said. I do believe that there are several forms and levels of intelligence everywhere and that we may just not be aware of them or understand them yet.

lil bitchiness

Originally posted by Bardock42
And to somehow happen to make a right guess, is better....how?

Of course you failing to comprehend what ''choosing not to choose is already a wrong choice'' - an age long saying, means should not surprise me.

Philosophy and meaning behind the saying is evidently beyond you.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I have to agree with you, but it took me 20 years to realize that. Or should I say, it took me 20 years to be ready for the Lotus sutra.
Its never ever too late

Stealth Agent

Originally posted by TheSpinner
Damn! you guys seem to be everywhere. Cool!

But seriously do you guys believe in GOD or some kind of intelligence or anything of the sort. I mean what is the general idea? Please educate me a little. I am so deficient in this matter.

Thanks

To beleive in a higher being but that's your only beleif, thats called agonistic.

Trickster

No, to be agnostic is to believe that the question of a god (or gods) is impossible to answer. It's not a belief in either a god or a lack of a god, rather it is a view on the possibility of knowledge of such a god.

Alliance

Agnosticism is a catch all for people who don't believe either way.

Justbyfaith

Originally posted by Alliance
Agnosticism is a catch all for people who don't believe either way.

True. It's really a cop out in my opinion. It's an easy way to play the fense without taking a stand. It's Politician in positioning.

"A man who doesn't stand for something will stand for anything."

Unknown

Alliance

No...its called being rational.

Justbyfaith

Originally posted by Alliance
No...its called being rational.

Call it what you will. I call it spineless. No backbone.

Alliance

Becuase peopel want to take time to analyze the situation?

Justbyfaith

Originally posted by Alliance
Becuase peopel want to take time to analyze the situation?

I spent 24 years analyzing the situation. But your previous posts reveal to me a mindset that in the end... it is usually hopeless.

Alliance

Your analysis is not the same as everone elses. Judging how you think now...I dont find you more credible.

Justbyfaith

Originally posted by Alliance
Your analysis is not the same as everone elses. Judging how you think now...I dont find you more credible.

Fair enough...

Alliance

ok.

Imperial_Samura

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
True. It's really a cop out in my opinion. It's an easy way to play the fense without taking a stand. It's Politician in positioning.

"A man who doesn't stand for something will stand for anything."

Unknown

I don't think that is true, but it is an unfortunate sign of the times. Sometimes it is ok to say "I don't know." I know I would prefer that sometimes to the people who scream to "know the truth and if you don't believe you'll go to hell"

I most probably border on agnosticism and atheism. I am practical and rational and I don't really believe. But! I can't say for certain there is no God/Gods. I am open to the idea, but I see no proof.

Now, is this fence sitting because I won't believe or disbelieve without some proof? I think not. It is, for me, intellectually practical. I am not going to believe on the off chance some great big light with an attitude is going to judge me - he wants me, then he can deliver some proof. But that the same time I will reasonably debate with reasonable believers, because while I don't think it is likely, I can't say for 100% that there isn't anything.

Alliance

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
I most probably border on agnosticism and atheism. I am practical and rational and I don't really believe. But! I can't say for certain there is no God/Gods. I am open to the idea, but I see no proof.
I get around that by this methodology.

Its very logical that all gods we know of were made up by man.

There is no direct or conclusive evidence that gods exist.

If gods existed, because they are by nature a-logical...nature itself would most likely be less reductionist and logical. Its not.

If you want to prove something...you have to prove an affirmative, you don't prove a negative. (YOu have to prove gods exist, not gods don't exist)

Its impossible to prove that gods exist.

Therefore, for all practical purposes and for reasonable everyday life...I am athiest.

SP90

Originally posted by O Green World
I've always wondered what an atheists reason for existing is... Since they don't really have to exist anyways, when they die they'll dissappear so....what's the point in living when it's all in vain?

Not belonging to a religion doesn't mean you don't have beliefs, religions are one person's belief that has spread, at the beginning it was only an idea. Atheists can believe in whatever they want, religious people just follow the group.

Imperial_Samura

Originally posted by Alliance
I get around that by this methodology.

Its very logical that all gods we know of were made up by man.

There is no direct or conclusive evidence that gods exist.

If gods existed, because they are by nature a-logical...nature itself would most likely be less reductionist and logical. Its not.

If you want to prove something...you have to prove an affirmative, you don't prove a negative. (YOu have to prove gods exist, not gods don't exist)

Its impossible to prove that gods exist.

Therefore, for all practical purposes and for reasonable everyday life...I am athiest.

Essentially correct.

Alliance

not all religous peopel follow groups

but atheists and agnostics dont have centralized phiosophies adn are therefore oftem more diverse in their opinons...but then again maybe not.

LethalFemme

Originally posted by Legion_of_Maul
how are you going to argue religion if you don't have one, or you have multiple? at least have one religion and stick with, or don't argue cause you can't even choose your own religion.

Should people that don't have a gun not be able to comment on laws about gun control? Or people who can't vote should they be allowed to discuss politics?

Wonderer

Originally posted by LethalFemme
Should people that don't have a gun not be able to comment on laws about gun control? Or people who can't vote should they be allowed to discuss politics?

Very true!

The big EH

even people who don't beleve in a higher or being or greater good thing or watever, like god or buddha, (much like me i don't believe in any of that crap shat) still believe in something probally most of the time scientific explanations much like myself

Justbyfaith

Originally posted by Alliance
not all religous peopel follow groups

but atheists and agnostics dont have centralized phiosophies adn are therefore oftem more diverse in their opinons...but then again maybe not.

Is diversity of opinions how we find truth? Maybe by chance we strike gold?

Justbyfaith

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
Is diversity of opinions how we find truth? Maybe by chance we strike gold?

You also have to think about the fact that people who become atheist become so for a reason. They don't just wakeup and go hey you know what no more religion today. Then you also have to think about the people who are religious who will try to "convince" them the errors of their ways and will start a discussion about it. So by that alone they'd have to discuss religion.

Alliance

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
Is diversity of opinions how we find truth? Maybe by chance we strike gold?
Truth is so complex I wouldn't trust it if I found it. i probalby wouldn't understand it.

lord xyz

Originally posted by Legion_of_Maul
how are you going to argue religion if you don't have one, or you have multiple? at least have one religion and stick with, or don't argue cause you can't even choose your own religion. And why is not having a religion a bad thing?

ThePittman

Originally posted by LethalFemme
They don't just wakeup and go hey you know what no more religion today. I didn't

Fatima

i think people who deniel god or dont want to conect themself with relgion , they know god only in hard time or if they about to die ..

Imperial_Samura

Originally posted by Fatima
i think people who deniel god or dont want to conect themself with relgion , they know god only in hard time or if they about to die ..

For some reason I find is somewhat insulting the people that assume an atheist is the kind of person who is weak and fearful and who will suddenly "find God" on their death bed.

I have seen no proof to your statement. Unless they have a reason to believe they aren't going to suddenly turn to a being they have spent their lives not having reason to believe.

Rather many Atheists are at terms with there mortality.

Alliance

Originally posted by Fatima
i think people who deniel god or dont want to conect themself with relgion , they know god only in hard time or if they about to die ..

Really, this is not the case. All atheists have the principle that a god may exist somewhere within them because its plasted all over the world in an endless spew of propoganda.

This is just like you have the doubts about the existance of your god, but you choose not to follow them.

Samura is correct. I also find it insulting when people make suggestions like that. It'd be like me saying to you "I think you'll find Christ when you are about to die, just because your religion is so wrong."

Most atheists are very comfortable with both their mortality and morality.

Imperial_Samura

Originally posted by Alliance
Really, this is not the case. All atheists have the principle that a god may exist somewhere within them because its plasted all over the world in an endless spew of propoganda.

This is just like you have the doubts about the existance of your god, but you choose not to follow them.

Samura is correct. I also find it insulting when people make suggestions like that. It'd be like me saying to you "I think you'll find Christ when you are about to die, just because your religion is so wrong."

Most atheists are very comfortable with both their mortality and morality.