I'm reading this book that talks a lot about Jerusalem and I learned some pretty interesting things that I'd like to share. I learned that the Jews got in possesion of this city (after escaping Egypt) by commiting genocide. They mercylessly killed men, women and children and took over the land claiming that "God gave it to them."

Anyway, I never really understood what the big fuss was all about. I mean, so much pain and suffering, so much murder, over a piece of land.

Here's and excert from the book "Skinny legs and all" by Tom Robbins.

Jerusalem. Jeru Sallam. "City of Peace." The only humorous thing about it was its name. Thirty-seven wars (not battles but wars) fought over it. Reduced to ashes seventeen times by seventeen different conquerors. Each time rebuilt-and each time coveted anew.

Jerusalem. A dry and hilly provincial pit stop on the windy road to nowhere. Lacking a port, lacking strategic fortress sites, lacking fertile fields around it. No trees to cut, nof ish to net, no ore to mine, little but thistles for its flocks to chew. A location with almost nothing to offer, yet disired by everyone. Desired for three thousand years.

Jerusalem. Jeru Sallam. Shaped out of pure spirit, irrigated with spurting gore. Incessantly blackened by arson and blood, only to be polished to a golden shine again by prayerful knees and unwinding scrolls of dreamlike prophecy. Jerusale. When they could no longer bear to hear its children screaming, stones went deaf all over the world.

Jerusalem. A mystical metropolis with seven magic gates. Entered by few, forgotten by none. Simultaneously the capital of death and the seat of immortality. Hub of the wheel of pilgrimage. Focal point of all recieved starlight. Fly-specked mirror of heaven on earth. Jumping-off place to eternity. The town that logic could not shut down. That city, among all cities, into which both the Secon Coming and the Reemption have been booked and to where both the Christ and the Messiah are said to be holding tickets. Jeru Salaam.

Tue Dec 10, 2002 1:14 pm

amo1ne

Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 1455
Location: MTL514CANADA

Re: JERUSALEM and the War in the Middle East

FireFly wrote: I learned that the Jews got in possesion of this city (after escaping Egypt) by commiting genocide. They mercylessly killed men, women and children and took over the land claiming that "God gave it to them."

That's not the whole truth.

Tue Dec 10, 2002 1:56 pm

prolifik

Joined: 02 Oct 2002
Posts: 488

I don't think the Jews had time to commit "genocide." They were probably too busy planning the attack on 9/11, and the proceeding cover-up and framing of Al-Qaeda.

Tue Dec 10, 2002 2:50 pm

firefly

Joined: 27 Sep 2002
Posts: 3990
Location: Montreal

Re: JERUSALEM and the War in the Middle East

amo1ne wrote:

FireFly wrote: I learned that the Jews got in possesion of this city (after escaping Egypt) by commiting genocide. They mercylessly killed men, women and children and took over the land claiming that "God gave it to them."

That's not the whole truth.

Of course it is hard to claim a fact to be true when it happend that long ago. The thing is though, Tom Robbins is a very credible sourse. He has degrees in history and theology and has literaly gone to Timbuktu and back. This guy went on a field trip to the amazon on South Amercia with James Campbell!

This war has been going on for so long. Why do people want this land so bad?

Tue Dec 10, 2002 2:59 pm

Sage FrancisSelf Fighteous

Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 21654

because it's the "Holy Land" of course.

Whoever is on it gets brownie points.

Tue Dec 10, 2002 3:49 pm

tinkleDRINKER

Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 788

Re: JERUSALEM and the War in the Middle East

FireFly wrote:

amo1ne wrote:

FireFly wrote: I learned that the Jews got in possesion of this city (after escaping Egypt) by commiting genocide. They mercylessly killed men, women and children and took over the land claiming that "God gave it to them."

That's not the whole truth.

Of course it is hard to claim a fact to be true when it happend that long ago. The thing is though, Tom Robbins is a very credible sourse. He has degrees in history and theology and has literaly gone to Timbuktu and back. This guy went on a field trip to the amazon on South Amercia with James Campbell!

This war has been going on for so long. Why do people want this land so bad?

i'd be careful of using tom robbin's fiction as historical data - even if it's true - i would try and find a better source before you spread this nugget of information around at parties - try mien kampf!
peace

Tue Dec 10, 2002 4:40 pm

firefly

Joined: 27 Sep 2002
Posts: 3990
Location: Montreal

True.

Tue Dec 10, 2002 5:48 pm

Sage FrancisSelf Fighteous

Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 21654

Firefly,
It's been a few years now. Did you ever research this topic more? I'm curious about it.

Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:15 pm

Dan Shay

Joined: 30 Aug 2003
Posts: 11246
Location: MN

I got this nugget from wikipedia...

Quote: Australian rock band Wolfmother took their name from the novel

Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:12 am

Anti.Agent036

Joined: 11 Jul 2003
Posts: 900
Location: Gilbert, AZ

Being born in Jerusalem, I have to dispute the "irrelevance" of the city. Say its infertile, dry, hilly, and a pain in the ass....but it's beautiful.

I am a little bias. But I love that city. All religious connotations to the trash...it's my heart.

Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:35 am

crash

Joined: 07 Aug 2003
Posts: 5457
Location: the chocolate city with a marshmallow center and a graham cracker crust of corruption

it's easy to dismiss how meaningless a piece of land is when you've never had it stolen from you.

Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:24 am

firefly

Joined: 27 Sep 2002
Posts: 3990
Location: Montreal

Sage Francis wrote: Firefly,
It's been a few years now. Did you ever research this topic more? I'm curious about it.

hahaha holy shit that was a long time ago.

I was obviously not very educated on the matter at the time (it seems like I was just becoming aware of the apartheid).

I definitely researched this topic further in the past few years. I've collaborated with the Rachel Corrie foundation and the Palestinian human rights group here. I think that I have learned a lot of the subject.

My theory now as to why there is all this war and destruction surrounding the site is simple. War. It is obvious to me why the Palestinians are fighting (they are being treated like animals) and as to why the Zionists moved in there in the first place I think is merely about land and power.

Religious scripture is used to manipulate the people, get them to band together for the cause. It allows them to partake in the stealing of a people's land guilt free as they believe that it is "their land, given to them by God". It allows for people to kill their neighbor with the belief that they are evil and don't deserve to live.

I also believe that America has been supporting the occupation for two reasons. The obvious one being money and the second one I believe they want them to kill each other. They are creating an enemy for the people to rally against. They are creating war so that they can build more weapons and make the tax payers pay for it.

Man . . . I was so idealistic back then. hahaha I still like Tom Robbins though.

Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:08 am

note1

Joined: 10 Jul 2002
Posts: 1260
Location: providence

Don't discount our own religous nut jobs who want to make sure the end of the world happens on schedule. They want the jews to control that land cause thats whats necessary for jesus to return. Sounds reasonable to me!

Quote: John Hagee is the pastor of the 18,000-member Cornerstone Church in San Antonio, Texas, and a long-time fervent supporter of Israel.

John Hagee says 40 million Americans back his views

In common with many American evangelicals, he believes that God gave the land to the Jewish people and that Christians have a Biblical duty to support it and the Jews.

His latest book, Jerusalem Countdown: A Warning to the World, interprets the Bible to predict that Russian and Arab armies will invade Israel and be destroyed by God.

This will set up a confrontation over Israel between China and the West, led by the anti-Christ, who will be the head of the European Union, Pastor Hagee writes.

That final battle between East and West - at Armageddon, as the actual Israeli location of Meggido is known in English - will precipitate the second coming of Christ, he concludes.

Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:56 am

Bootzilla

Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Posts: 149
Location: Germany

I just bought "on the misuse of anti-semitism and the abuse of history" by Norman Finkenstein. Anyone read that?

Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:59 pm

Anti.Agent036

Joined: 11 Jul 2003
Posts: 900
Location: Gilbert, AZ

Bootzilla wrote: I just bought "on the misuse of anti-semitism and the abuse of history" by Norman Finkenstein. Anyone read that?

I like him. He is so passionate. He was recently in Lebanon, and did a TV interview with a Lebanese channel (a right-wing Christian one). The TV host is asking him a series of questions pretty much implying "you should tone down your support for the Palestinians and simply teach polisci, your activism is hurting you"...he straight demolished him in response (even though it had to be translated and it didnt sound as good in Arabic).

He's awesome.

Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:33 pm

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