Is there a way to just get marie 300% for characters other than squigs? I've been using Nightmare-difficulty Marie in arcade mode to practice reflects and I curse myself everytime I accidentally kill her/want to practice reflects during crazy stage 3 stuff.
Also, Yahtzee on perfect.

Is there a way to just get marie 300% for characters other than squigs? I've been using Nightmare-difficulty Marie in arcade mode to practice reflects and I curse myself everytime I accidentally kill her/want to practice reflects during crazy stage 3 stuff.
Also, Yahtzee on perfect.

Is there a way to just get marie 300% for characters other than squigs? I've been using Nightmare-difficulty Marie in arcade mode to practice reflects and I curse myself everytime I accidentally kill her/want to practice reflects during crazy stage 3 stuff.
Also, Yahtzee on perfect.

Right now there isn't a normal way but Mike said that allowing Marie 300% for other characters is in plans.

Big Band vs Nightmare Marie, I've done it. I doubt there will ever be as an efficient strategy as Deflector (which somehow deals more damage then some supers versus Marie I think) for BB, but hey, you have Brass Knuckles. The key to this battle is timing and position. When dealing with the first form (after you have dropped H Brass Knuckes xx SSJ on it for stun) space yourself from her so that when she summons her skull charges, you only get hit at max range and then you can block the rest of the charge. Also be sure to c.HK > H Brass for max DPS. Don't ever jump, you're too big of a target, but if you need to cross up, j.mk will do the job admirably. Learn to parry those skulls too when she does hit you with the skelly grab or diagonal skull charge, or she just summons her skull bodyguard right on top of you. Speaking of her skull bodyguard, it's trivial to get rid of, just jump on it and parry it as you touch it.

Now when she finally transforms into her Second form, immediately taunt. You need this for her final form. The second form is the hard part and where you'll most likely die. This is where the timing aspect comes into play. It's a real shame that BB doesn't have any real multi hitting attacks so you can trigger stun or it would have made this part so much easier. I could be wrong though, j.mk x Cymbals might just do the trick, but I'm writing all of this from memory. Anyways, find a way to survive the barrage and get to her final form. Just as she's about to finish her transformation sequence, activate SSJ. You want to be on her the very instant you can be. You have 15 hits of armor now, so there's no chance of getting hit out of it. The trick is to have enough HP to survive the initial barrage while you pummel her. Once you do, it should be all you need to kill her right then and there. Ideally, you should taunt before every SSJ to make the most out of them seeing that BB meter gain is slow, but it's hard to find a good opening to do so in practice except when she's transforming.

I've beaten Nightmare Marie with every character and I know that a lot of people have trouble beating her, so I'll write some rudimentary strategies for each character (except Cerebella, no need to for that anymore!). They aren't sure fire at the least, so they maybe end up as too time consuming for most people.

Val: j.hp j.hk IAD j.hp on 1st form. j.hp IAD j.hp on second form. Air scalpels > air H bypass xx air scalpels > air H bypass xx air scalpels until she is dead. If meter is gone, repeat first method while she is stunned.

Double - Since Hornet Bomber got nerfed, we're going to have to come up with another strategy to make it to the 3rd form. I hope your controller isn't a piece of garbage like mine, because you're going to need to input Flesh Step rapid fire. Start the round off with Fukazi Knuckle xx H Hornet Bomber to start the damage race off, then c.HP xx Flesh Step, j.HP, c.HP xx Flesh Step and repeat until you get knocked away because you teleported into a skull charge or a bodyguard or she finally goes into 2nd form. Why you need to j.HP is because it slows your attack tempo down so you have a much higher chance of evading her attacks. Otherwise, if you c.HP xx Flesh Step as fast as you can, you'll usually teleport right into her attacks because you stepping too fast. I suppose you can also use j.HK, it might even be superior.

Once she's 2nd form...c.HP xx Flesh Step as rapidly as you can. Her attacks are much more rapid now, so you need to just do that as fast as you possibly can. Doing this, you won't actually take that much damage, or sometimes any, as long as you don't screw up the input, like my controller does all the time.

Once she goes into 3rd form, you've basically have won. Just set Republican Car to cruise control and kill her dead, she has only minimal chances of hitting you. You do have 3 stocks charged, right? Because that's how many it takes to drop her.

So I don't know a combo to hit boss stun, but I'm pretty sure it involves j.HK and maybe M Item Drop. If you can figure that out, you can beat the 1st form easy.

Squigly - Pretty simply really, j.HK xx M Divekick. The first form is harder to get into hitstun for whatever reason. I think it's because I'm doing it too early/high on her body. The 2nd form, however, is easy as long as you she doesn't run away from you. You have to do it as fast as possible to maintain hitstun. The 3rd form is the trickiest part. You must get close enough to land the super on her the moment she's vulnerable. If you get hit by her transformation explosion or her subsequent attacks, it'll be extremely difficult to get close, let alone another shot at locking her down, so get her the first chance you get. It won't be enough to kill her, but it's a good chance to nail her with the j.HK xx M Divekick again and again until she finally keels over. You can also follow up with M Squigly Battle Opera if you have the meter.

My Big Band game is improving, not as much as I'd like though. The trick to beating Marie is to leverage your high damage to get her into her 2nd form as soon as possible without taking too much damage. I haven't quite mastered this aspect yet, but I have made some improvements to my strategy.

I find that M Brass Knuckles is what you want to spam here. The smaller recovery time means not only are you left open to be punished less often, but less recovery time translates to more DPS. Jumping is not as prohibitive as I thought it would be, although sometimes it can be a challenge to clear skull charges. In fact, Cymbals are a great way of spacing yourself away from Marie without having to let up completely on Marie. I also found that taunting for the third form isn't as necessary as I thought it was. You can just SSJ, H Brass x SSJ her and it'll do the job. It's just not as reliable because she can summon a surprising amount of stuff on you right off the bat. I still would recommend taunting, but if you have butter fingers like me, you can still win without taunting.

I've reached a disturbingly high level of Marie tech knowledge.
4th method to perfect Marie :
After the 1st phase skip (copter dynamo into combo), and 2nd phase skip (copter dynamo into LONGER combo), it was time for me to go for 3rd phase skip :p

Now, I noticed that the result is a bit underwhelming and obscure, considering the amount of research necessary for this video to exist.
So here is a long and boring explanation of what is happening in this video : (also contains ideas to use the tech with other chars)

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Transitions from 1st to 2nd phase and from 2nd to 3rd phase behave in general the same way : if Marie's health gets below the transition limit and she isn't stun, she becomes instantly invulnerable and goes into next phase. But if she's stun when the limit is reached, she will stay vulnerable and won't do anything until stun ends.

Where both transitions differ is in the additional safety measure implemented in the 2nd to 3rd phase transition. If Marie is stun when the transition limit is reached, she will emit after a small delay a single-hit shockwave to push away the pathetic insect trying to abuse her mechanics too much. This is not a burst, as it doesn't make Marie invulnerable like the bursts happening in the rest of the game.
As a consequense, if you manage to avoid getting hit by that shockwave, you can keep the combo going on Marie and kill her without letting her go into 3rd phase. Hence "3rd phase skip".

There are several ways to avoid the shockwave :
- invulnerable moves (unlike bursts in the rest of the game, its active frames are very short, possibly only 1 active frame), but Bella can't keep the combo going on Marie after a devil horns or a dynamo.
- armor : the shockwave deals damage, so you won't get a perfect. Not an option for me, and Bella can't combo after her armored moves on Marie anyway.
- being out of range : didn't test it too much for now, but it seems the shockwave is very small. A carefully spaced s.hp run stop c.lk could maybe avoid it completely. Maybe the short leaning-backwards animation of cerecopter could be enough to avoid it too ;
- DEFLECTING : yes, that shockwave is a projectile too...

Now that we know that, we need the opportunity to use that knowledge.
Nightmare Marie has too much health to allow a full combo into death from phase 1 (believe me I tried), so we need to stun her in phase 2.
Phase 2 shows several difficulties :
- smaller hurtbox, making jump loops impossible ;
- her shadow "reversal" : the shadow she summons when you are too close to her and hits you directly into sliding knockdown. That shadow can get summoned even when Marie is stun, so long combos aren't possible on her during phase 2. Fortunately, she entirely stops acting when she reaches the 3rd phase transition limit, so the shadow won't bug you if you stun and get her to the transition limit fast enough ;
- Marie tends to move a lot more in phase 2 than in phase 1 when she is't stun. This makes stunning her very RNG-dependant.

So what this means is we can't use cerecopter dynamo into quick stun to get the 3rd phase skip. DP shadow will nope you out.
Cerebella has only one other tool to stun Marie : deflector.

Now that's where it gets complex to pull out :
- deflector will only stun if you deflect from far enough to get the most hits on Marie (deflector hits Marie every frame it touches her hurtbox). Too close and Marie won't care.
- you still need to be close enough to combo afterwards. As Marie can't get staggered, you can't dash jump j.hk or something like that. You only have its hitstun.
- Marie needs to NOT FUCKING MOVE when you do all this, and she loves to do so.
- ideally, deflector stuns her AND then make her pass the transition limits with its last hits. So the amount of health she needs to have is kinda precise.

How to do all this?
- craft the 1st phase combo so it gets Marie to exactly the amount of health you need ;
- during the 1st to 2nd phase transition, position yourself (wow, much precise, such tech, many fails) ;
- pray so she won't move and wait for her to throw an attack. The fun thing is, at this particular distance, she can throw anything at you, even the DP shadow. Good luck reacting with the right timing ;
- deflect, stun, pass the transition limit ;
- combo with c.mp. As the deflector needs to go through some travel time before it stops hitting Marie, it buys you enough time to get the link (~3f probably) ;
- small delay s.hp, delay deflector to deflect the shockwave ;
- link with s.lp. As this time you're right against Marie because of c.mp, you have way less time, and s.lp is ~3 frames link.
- s.mp s.hk copter dynamo. Way enough to kill Nightmare Marie with little health she has left, DP shadow won't bug you as transition limit was passed with the deflector.

What else to say...

DUOS could use it to get a perfect on Marie!
Duos still deal enough damage to do a 1st phase skip without too much trouble (tried with bella, no problem, and she isn't the most damaging char vs Marie), 2nd phase can be perfected with continuous cross up attacks, and you would probably get the 3rd phase skip by stunning Marie, then doing a DP and calling assist, DP avoids the shockwave, assist comes in too late to get hit by it and keeps the combo going while you recover from your DP (so you'll need a specific assist, obviously), and you kill Marie with a combo + DHC if required.

You misunderstood. I'm not restunning her, I keep her stun. As long as she is stun, she can't go into any transition. If she actually goes into a transition, though, nothing can stop her as she becomes invulnerable until she is done.

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1st Phase: Alternate Boat -> Butcher's Blade -> Butcher's Blade Again, Standing B. Blade -> B. Blade, and J.HK when I saw indication of an incoming grab. B. Blade transitions into itself really well, so skipping the Sekhmet launch time really helped. If I tried to do more than two, I'd burn too much meter avoiding a grab. Or, you know, just get grabbed. Either way, meter management is important.

2nd Phase: Crossup and Sting with J.HK. Stopped being as greedy with my hits and started focusing on safely switching sides on Marie, which helped avoid a LOT of pain.

3rd Phase: Burn my health for Sekhmet's J.MP -> S.HP (Double Axes). Slightly troublesome as this'll be nerfed when we get Robo Kitty. Also, I ran out of meter at the last moment and had to do one last desperate hit from above.

I have a spreadsheet of Eliza's moves and their hitstuns, startup times, and and recovery times, and a comparison of similar data from one of @dragonos451 's videos. I have a basic strategy, now I just need to do it better...

Required data :
- stunning marie for the first time appears to require ~2000 damage. BUT sometimes she will be a bitch and nothing will stun her ever for some reason.

- you need to check how many hits are required to re-stun her during phase 1.
Lemme explain :
As your way to get your first stun is boat xx M sekhmet, you probably can't keep a combo going from it. So you'll need to attack her quickly afterwards with more conventional means to get a real combo.
As cerebella, I know stunning marie for the second time requires only one hit, of any kind, to stun her again. If I decide to reset the combo and stun her a third time, I know that whatever I did during second stun, I'll need 4 hits (L M H L) to get her back into a combo.
I don't know how this data evolves when you wait for too long after she recovered. I don't know how it applies for other characters, you'll have to check that yourself, and it will help you decide what you'll do next.

- chaining and cancelling works the same way against marie than against the rest of the cast. Launchers are jump cancellable on hit, normals chain, rain gets you wet.

- most attacks have the same hitstun against Marie than against the rest of the cast.
- the exception to this is attacks that apply specific effects on the opponent : wall bounce, ground bounce, knockdowns. Their hitstuns against Marie are ~ the same as their blockstun against normal opponents (no precise testing has been made, only quick "how does that look?" for bella).
What I don't know about is how behave attacks that apply large amounts of hitstop on the opponent, such as pw's L nail, or beta filia's ringlt spike. If they work correctly, that's dope for these characters.

- Marie has no undizzy protection system, but IPS works exactly the same way.

So if you manage to create a modus operandi to get a combo on her "reliably", all you'll need is to craft a long-ass marie specific combo, and you'll maybe manage to recreate my second phase skip tech. Which means possibly a perfect.

Flying Painwheel seems to be a good analogue for hits in Training Mode. At least for initial testing; often doesn't hold up to actual battle, on account of the skulls and Marie's immunity to being knocked around.

I'm really, really bad at following up on her stun; figuring that out's probably the next step. I need to watch more Eliza videos, see what long combos are possible.

Haven't been able to figure out number of hits to re-stun; I keep getting interrupted by errant individual skulls or diag skull trains or skull swarms.

Boat-> Butcher is really easy for Marie to interrupt right in the middle.

Eliza's "Being Grabbed" face never fails to amuse me, so at least I have that going. I think it's possible, it's just a matter of getting the numbers and the performance to work.

Things that do over 2K damage:

Boat -> Butcher

sMK -> sHK (full)

Boat -> Osiris (any)

Boat -> Horus or Couch

3 sLP -> 2 sMK -> 3 sHP

Couch -> any standing heavy

Sekhmet's jMP -> jHP

sLK -> sMP -> 2 sHK

Gator -> Boat

sMP -> 3 sHP

jLK -> jHP -> dash cancel -> jLK -> jHP

Progress! A standing, looping or semi-looping combo could possibly do a Phase Skip, which would be awesome. I need to get better at the longer combos. Best I currently have is cLK -> cMP -> cHK -> jLK -> jMP -> jHP -> airdash -> jMP -> jHP, and even that's not the most reliable thing ever.

On the more positive, speculative side of things, something clever can probably be done with Upper Khat's invincibility frames to counter Marie's phase shift interrupts and keep combos going.

I highlighted segments that do over 2K damage; separating them from the greater combos may make them rather practical ways to get into stun. I had trouble performing the last few combos in Training Mode, and need to digest the information to actually apply it against Marie; I don't think the jLP jLK jMP jMK is going to be particularly useful and, if anything, it introduces too many points of failure into my strings. On the other hand, those last two combos into Khepri Sun might be useful for the third phase. If not, no big deal; I'd rather skip that phase entirely. That link between jHP and cLP looks intersting, but I have a really hard time pulling it off.

Vulnerability to Marie's attacks isn't a factor to take into consideration. If Marie decides to hit you, you'll get hit. The important factor is how much time you need to stun her, which has a direct impact of how likely it is that you'll stun her without getting countered.

How to know if your stun tech is efficient :
- it takes less time than Marie needs to attack with a grab or an exploding skeleton. If at round start, you can get the stun while marie went for that attack, you're good. It means it will also work if marie does a slight pause before attacking you with a skull attack. Having such a way to stun gives you a success rate between 33 and 50%. Copter dynamo meets this condition by a slight margin and has a success rate of 40-45%.
- either allows you to combo directly afterwards, or got you close to Marie and in a position to re-stun her very fast. That is why ground M sekh is probably not a good way to stun Marie, because you need to get back to eliza form, which will put you far from Marie again. IAD air M sekh --> H sekh sounds better though, as the airdash brings you close, and the following attacks won't push Marie further from eliza sarcophagus state thingy. So a sekh call will leave you close enough to Marie for a possible quick restun. Copter dynamo also meets this condition and allows a restun with a 95-98%% success rate.

Haven't been able to figure out number of hits to re-stun; I keep getting interrupted by errant individual skulls or diag skull trains or skull swarms.

Find a good way to stun first, then see if you can get an easy restun afterwards.
Keep trying.

Marie analogue for training mode : flying painwheel

I use standing BB. I didn't find yet something that hits Marie but not BB, and vice versa.
If you need to see what you can do after a launcher, I have a trick : set BB to walk forward as reversal, then do for example L spiral s.mp (that's eliza mini launcher right?). As these two attacks won't link but are done right next to each other, BB will parry the launcher, allowing you to train jump cancel follow ups while BB stays grounded. You'll know that way what will HIT after a launcher, but knowing what will LINK after the launcher will either require to do it on not-parrying BB, or on Marie herself.

Important note : there is no damage scaling on Marie.
And remember that when I said 2000 damage, it's a very rough estimation. You'll need to check on Marie.

Progress! A standing, looping or semi-looping combo could possibly do a Phase Skip, which would be awesome. I need to get better at the longer combos. Best I currently have is cLK -> cMP -> cHK -> jLK -> jMP -> jHP -> airdash -> jMP -> jHP, and even that's not the most reliable thing ever.

Git gud.

On the more positive, speculative side of things, something clever can probably be done with Upper Khat's invincibility frames to counter Marie's phase shift interrupts and keep combos going.

NO.
NO NO NO NO NO NO.
FUCK NO.
NO.

Either you're talking about 3rd phase skip (and then you're thinking waaay too far ahead from where you are right now), or you need to read again the explanation I posted with my 3rd phase skip video. Because if you're really talking about keeping combo going during a phase transition, you are terribly mistaken on something (that I consider) basic :
1) as long as Marie is stun, she can't go for any phase transition.
2) as soon as Marie isn't stun and her health is below a phase transition limit, she becomes fully invincible for the full duration of the transition.

So keeping a combo going during a phase transition is completely nonsensical...

Stun will last as long as your attacks hitstun so...yeah L osiris won't put you at +60, but you'll be able to link lights behind it. You know, like against a normal opponent...
I'm getting worried.

Now I'm even more worried.
How good are you at eliza combos?

Ha! I'm not very good, I'll admit. I had trouble even replicating the stuff in the vid on normal training dummies, much less getting my stuns in. I figured this is a way to practice and get better. (I have this thing about 'learning by biting off way more than I can chew.') Additionally, I went into videos and spreadsheets trying to get ideas on what to practice. I tend to focus way too much on single hits and finding openings when fighting normal AI or regular people. (Although the one combo I do know is pretty effective, for the most part. At least, it seems to hurt the other guy okay...)

And yeah, I think I misunderstood your third phase skip explanation; I was under the impression that, if you're invincible during the cloud burst thingy Marie does, you could keep going. Similar to how you were able to deflect it and get the damage going again right after she turns. Yes, this is way down the line, but it's something to keep in mind so I know, going forward, "okay, if I can incorporate Upper Khat in my combos, that'd be neat."

RE Gator -> Boat -> L. Osiris- this was just an easy way to verify number of hits and that restunnning worked. Heavy would probably work better in terms of keeping her stunned, or something else that can be followed up.

I listed those 2K mini-combos so I could test them and verify Marie stuns; I tested, and she does. So I like having them available for reference.

The Big Band testing tips sound interesting and viable; I was concerned he's too big and easy to hit.