Question of the Day: Did Gun Rights Voters Swing the Presidential Election?

In this congratulatory video NRA Veep Wayne LaPierre credits NRA members for swinging the presidential election for Donald Trump. The mainstream media has all but completely ignored the idea that the gun vote torpedoed Hillary Clinton’s vision of a kindler, gentler, more inclusive kleptocracy. The liberals’ lamentations are all about disenfranchised working class white voters and apathetic African-Americans. All except for Alex Yablon over at Michael Bloomberg’s anti-gun agitprop machine, The Trace. Here’s an excerpt from How the NRA Stoked the Populist Rage That Gave America President Trump:

In the wake of Trump’s gobsmacking victory, the NRA’s headlong support of the controversial Republican candidate no longer looks so rash. One interpretation of an outcome that even Trump’s own campaign didn’t see coming, as suggested by late stage insistence on voter fraud and a “rigged” election, is to conclude that the NRA got lucky. Terrified that Clinton would get elected and make good on her promises of gun reform, the group threw money at the race and drew an inside straight.

But the NRA isn’t known for luck — it’s known for ruthlessly effective political strategy, which for decades has kept candidates it likes in power and universally popular laws it opposes off the books . . . What has gone less noticed is how the group has succeeding [sic] in stoking populist furor that spills well beyond the people on its email list.

“Both the NRA and Trump promote a nostalgia for something that has been lost,” sociologist Scott Melzer, author of the 2012 book Gun Crusaders: The NRA’s Culture War, tells The Trace. The gun group and its candidate speak to “this white rural conservative population that feels left behind by economic shifts and cultural shifts. These changes pose a threat to their identity.”

Melzer says the NRA has figured out how to mobilize people by fostering a sense that they are threatened by outsiders. “That makes them the most effective social force in conservatism, and they’ve done so with language that Trump used,” he said. The NRA seized on this rhetoric to fuel its interest group politics.

Trump brought it to the larger arena of mainstream politics, then rode it to the Oval Office.

True story? How big a part did the NRA play in Trump’s victory? Did their $30m ad spend help put their boy over-the-top? If so, will Trump repay the favor by supporting the NRA’s post-election agenda: enacting national concealed carry reciprocity and putting “an end to gun-free zones”?

I doubt the credit goes wholly to the gun vote. It was certainly a very important factor in the election and is what made me decide to ultimately vote Trump. However as the article (and others) point out, the rural and working-class white vote seems to have been the overall common denominator. How many of them made their decision to vote Trump based on 2A issues would be hard to guess.

White rural males are most likely the most likely to tell a surveyer/pollster they own a firearm. Other demographics are certainly extremely under represented in the self reported numbers.
I am not white, not older, not rural, not male. I don’t own or use firearms as a social, non-confidential activity like hunting. So my ownership, like an increasing majority of gun ownership, is purely self defense, and my inclination, as well as my training course, emphasize confidentiality about it. If a GSS surveyer were to come to my door and ask, or if someone saying they were from Gallup were to call me and ask if I had a gun in the home, my answer would be: “No.”

I don’t like a lot of what Mr. Trump has said and stands for. But the fact is Hillary Clinton:
a) said she opposes Heller, meaning she things even with a background check, and with training, and with a gun safe at home she thinks my justification should be able to totally forbid me even simple gun ownership of a revolver for home protection use only.
b) said she like Australia model. This is mass confiscation of guns of people who have owned them and never committed any offense.

There was no “one” group that is solely responsible for Hillary’s defeat. Instead, for her to lose, a number of things had to happen:

1. She had to be a truly horrendous candidate that would not inspire Democrats to fight election day crowds
2. Trump had to make the persuasive case to working class voters that he, rather than the Dems were their best option.
3. Obviously Hillary’s anti-gun message turned out a lot of votes against her
4. If she had never done the home email server, she would likely have won. That issue cost her a lot.

These and others were all pillars in the bridge to her defeat. No single one would have been enough on its own but if any of these pillars had not been there, the bridge would have collapsed. It was truly an all or nothing enterprise.

There are many other reasons, but for Wayne to claim that the anti-gun vote was mainly responsible is just stupid.

Wayne, by the way has a funding problem coming up and he knows it. With Republican President, Congress and soon to be conservative SC Justice appointments, he’s going to have work very hard to manufacture the next boogeyman between now and the 2018 election.

Jim you are wrong on many levels., Your statement is a tautology and not relevant. BOTH candidates had single elements that can be said to have cost them the election. Hillary’s stand on guns certainty is one of the elements that had she taken a different tack would have resulted in a win.
You did not effectively contest LaPierre’s statement on the facts. In fact gun woners in the political center likely did tip the election against Hillary

As far as funding, the NRA has what, 58% approvals? Sure it will be a little tougher funding without the white-house actively trying to destroy the Second Amendment totally. Just as planned parenthood had a funding problem and now have a funding boon.

But in the case of gun control there is NO grassroots funding of efforts to increase gun ocntorl. Over 95% of the money for gun control advocacy comes from less than ten large donors, and over 50% from one large donor.

If gun control was an organic movement of any importance the funding would be broad. It is not. So while pro choice will have a funding boon, the pro-gun control side will see NO increase in funding. The Pro second amendment side though is organic and widespread

Trump would not have won without everything breaking just right for him. So, it’s correct to say that the NRA swung this election to Trump.

Hillary helped to ignite this culture war and it just burned her on her fat, entitled, arrogant @ss.

Trump will keep his promises to the NRA. If he doesn’t, all the NRA backing in the world — assuming he’d receive it — won’t help him if and when he runs for re-election. We showed up and put him in the WH. If he doesn’t serve us, we won’t show up again. Not for him.

As prisoner of MA, you know deep in your ammo locker that “we” will support him again unless a better GOP candidate is nominated. The Progs/Left/Dems will almost certainly be more destructive to civil gun rights than most any Repubs. (Sorry Mikey, Bill W, Ahnahld, etc.).

You also know that there are enough gun owners in MA to change its administration and yet, they never do it (see Baker’s support of Healey’s BS). While Baker was not as bad as his opponent, he still isn’t good.

If Trump fails to follow through on his promises, and turns into another DC insider, he could get crushed in the primaries. Remember what happened to HW in ’92. He broke one lip-reading promise, and faced the worst reelection primary of any sitting president in my memory. If Trump breaks multiple promises, the backlash will be much worse.

Trump will break virtually every election “promise.” One of his strongest assets is noone really expects anything else of him. He needs to be mindful of the degree to which he complies with the main election narrative which got him elected. Less so with the individual promises themselves.

Of all promises, the 2A related ones, are likely the ones he needs to be most careful about not breaking. For one, they weren’t really far reaching to begin with, compared to banning Muslims, building walls, deporting millions etc. In addition, the 2A constituency, are much more likely to hold his feet to the fire, than most of the other, less focused constituencies that together gave him the victory.

Although I was never much of a Trump fan pre election, it is now starting to look like the New York liberal may end up being a surprisingly good 2A President. The battles he needs to fight on the 2A front, are so much cleaner and less messy, than most of the other ones he is “committed” to. It’s much more “us vs them” than the kind of multi year long, lobbyist filled, backroom dealing swamps that will be the inevitable result of mucking around with trade and tariffs, as well as immigration.

This seems fair. With such a slim margin of victory every single-interest group that voted for Trump ended up proving decisive. That said, people who actually voted *for* Trump really have no way to know what he will/won’t do on their pet issue. Anti-Hillary-ness was what united a lot of interest groups in opposition.

First they tell us the the NRA is Evil personified and is driving all our country’s gun-related problems (implying that the NRA does have a lot of influence); now, they’ll have you believe that the NRA is nothing but empty suits that have no effect on American’s opinions or actions.

Pick a story and stick with it, lefties; switching back and forth is for liars/deceivers who can’t keep their story straight. Oh, wait…

Guns ain’t the only problem with the evil (D). Don’t discount that the Senate and House are still held firmly by (R) and that we picked up a few governor’s houses. It ain’t all about the marginal F’d upness of Hillocr_p with regard to “arms”. Don’t let the NRA break their own arm patting themselves on the back, the don’t do “revolution” [even when long called for] they do “hey, send us some money so that we can keep the “conversation” going”.

WHAT’S WAS WRONG WITH THE EVIL LIBERAL_PROGRESSIVE_COMMUNIST_GLOBALIST [&] (D)
IS
S T I L L
W R O N G
WITH THE EVIL LIBERAL_PROGRESSIVE_COMMUNIST_GLOBALIST [&] (D),
AND THAT INCLUDES THE MULTITUDE OF POS (D) VOTERS OUT THERE. YOU ARE A SCOURGE !
THE PRESIDENT [IGNORES THE PAID “PROTESTERS” WHEN HE] SAYS THAT POPULISM COULD CAUSE A CIVIL WAR AND/OR WWIII.
HE’S WRONG ABOUT THE “CAUSE” BUT HE’S FING-A RIGHT ABOUT THE CIVIL WAR.
BRING IT B1T6H.

There were a lot of groups that helped Trump win the dozen+ swing states. Gun owners are definitely one of those groups that, for the most part (FU Firearms Concierge), voted against Hillary.

Being that Hillary was so proud of her enemies at the NRA, describing half the voting populace as the “basket of deplorables”, the black “never-do-wellers”, the latino “Taco Bowl”, and the Bernie “basement dwellers”, I’d say her and the DNC pissed off just enough people to both vote against her, or just stay at home on election day.

I think it’s strange how of all the reasons the media has been giving for Trumps win not one has mentioned guns.
You’d have to think that with record sales and increased ownership and an all-time low for supporting reg’s and bans that a politician going around praising Aussie confiscation and screaming “Heller got it wrong!” wouldn’t be doing herself any favors.

I know if politicians would stop attacking the 2nd I’d likely stop bothering to vote as I would no longer have to vote against those who attack the 2nd.

They were both terrible candidates with few redeeming qualities. But Clinton’s constant threat of banning, regulating, or otherwise restricting guns gave Trump a clear distinction. I think gun owners were the most motivated political group, and they/we turned out in droves in WI, MI, PA, NC, and FL.

I would say yes and no . The anti-gun rhetoric from the left made it so much easier to pull the trigger on a Nationalist Socialist who SAID he would protect the 2nd A . The economy was #1 that swung OHIO , PENN. , MICH. WISC. and NC. . People instinctively knew that 4-8 more years of high tax Socialism would destroy the USA and were willing to gamble on a National Socialist . Wait and see the end game .

I think that the prospect of two or three Supreme Court nominations and her stance against liberty generally did help sway the election for Trump. The NRA’s efforts were certainly a small part of that.

However, the truth is that if the Republican nominee had been literally a bag of manure, I still would have voted against Hillary.

No one thing swayed the election. The biggest factor was Hillary Clinton herself. She is simply a dispicable person. She could have put the E-mail scandal away by pleading guilty to misdemeanor mishandling of classifted information right after the discovery but chose to brazenly lie about it. That is her standard response to wrong doing.

ACA was the second most important factor. It was a catastrophe for the midflexibility class.

Gun rights come on third. Her undisguised hatred of gun owners was one of factors that drove working class whites to vote for Trump and motivated many conservatives to swallow hard and vote for him.

I agree with what you say, but above all regarding Hillary is this hard-to-define “I just don’t like her” factor. People don’t like her. They can’t stand to hear her talk. Has nothing to do with any “white lash,” as Van Jones put it, and has nothing to do with the fact that she’s a woman, conservatives would have voted for a black man or a woman if either were up against Hillary, her toxic personality, her insincerity and sneering manner.
People just don’t like her.

It helped. But full credit goes to the Left being the worst version of itself.

Painfully and transparently being hypocritical, two-faced, elitist, condescending, ignorant, and unwilling to have a discussion about anything meaningful and instead labeling everyone in a negative light.

I think the gun vote was a part of the overall general discontent of flyover country with this administration. The gun policy made a difference in my case as opposed to voting third party or not voting but I think the fact that the entire Dept. of Justice was compromised toward Hillary Clinton and everybody knew it and the fact that everyone was starting to reap the rewards of Obamacare really made the difference. That and enough people were just sick of her shit.

Thanks for starting a genocide against the american populace with your debunked “more guns, less crime” BS.

The same “more guns, less crime” crime that has been debunked many, many times by researchers here and abroad.

I just returned from my trip to japan and I saw no violence, anarchy or mass suicides like many of the “gun riech” groups claim happens there. The police there aren’t even armed with anything more than a 38 revolver.

Japan has the lowest rates of murders and suicides in the world than that 3rd hellhole called Switzerland.

Nobody there wants a gun, And many of it’s people agree that donald trump isn’t anything more than hitler reincarnated.

No point as usual debating with the brainwashed masses on here who can’t think for themselves and soundly been defeated many times by me.

The cognitive dissonance is strong among these salesmen of death that call themselves “people of the gun”.

Ever since herr trump got elected thanks to people like you rigging the votes, intimidating voters and attacking them. Hate crimes against innocent minorities, lgbt and immigrants have been on the rise thanks to people like you.

As usual, I hope you people are proud for killing America with your hate-filled beliefs.

There’s plenty of points to rebut here but I suppose there’s no reason to bother, given this statement:
“No point as usual debating with the brainwashed masses on here who can’t think for themselves and soundly been defeated many times by me.”

The left has been losing elections (that don’t have Obama on the ballot) not just because they’re misinformed on issues like guns but because they are both arrogant about it and completely unwilling to listen. Instead they just dismiss anyone who doesn’t immediately agree with them.

That pisses people off. A lot of people. Enough people that Donal Trump won states that have been blue for decades.

But instead of looking at those losses and wondering what they could do to change it, liberals like our friend here will blame everyone else for voting the way they did and, I guess, just hope that starts to work.

I have zero respect for anyone who would vote for a racist, misogynistic, bigoted, xenophobic thorn like trump ..trump is about hate. That’s very clear. He represents all that is evil in this world, yet you sheep voted for him..Trump even admits that he bullies, cheats, steals, and attacks the weak and less fortunate. He mocks the disabled, and yet given your knowledge of all this, you still voted for him..I stand all the more ready to fight against the evil Trump and his GOP cronies represent. They do not represent me, and Donald Trump is #NotMyPresident. Not now, not ever. Though he will try, he will never walk back the odious and disgusting words and actions he spewed out during his campaign and throughout his life. A lying, racist, xenophobic sex predator has just been elected to be the United States president. No matter how you turn this, I can’t understand why fascists like you would want to help such a man win.

And Hillary is not a bully and a racist? Can you imagine if anyone you didn’t like pretended to carry a bottle of hot sauce around to sway the black vote? Holy hell you’d destroy them. So watch who you are calling sheep…sheep

You’re big time strong, but smell isn’t everything. Unfortunately for you, despite your inflated sense of worth, you get one vote, which means you just got your “strong” ass handed to you by those here.

Hey… Loser! (Of course I mean that in the nicest way possible.) I appreciate you posting here, as it evokes a bit of pleasant nostalgia as I recall the wailing and gnashing of teeth from your tribe of leftist loonies at Hillary’s recent political self immolation. Was that already a week ago? Gee… time does fly when you’re having fun!

Hitler was a fascist. Hitler was anti-gun. Please learn ideologies and what they are based on before you throw the term around as gun registration leading to confiscation is a tenet of the fascist platform..

Getting your acronyms confused, that was not the NRA, it was Barack Obama’s and Eric Holder’s ATF. With actual evidence, not your stupid pretenses and hysterical assumptions. Lookup “fast and furious”.

Ok, I get it. The TTAG editorial staff is punking us. This is so far over the top it’s a dead give away. If they want to prevent the forum from becoming an echo they could have created something more authentic. I am disappointed.

That statement just proved that you have no understanding of the first amendment. Farrago could ban you from this site and your rights would not have been violated. You have the right to say asinine shit and we have the right to say STFU. See, you are on a forum dealing with private citizens. Your free speech rights do not apply.

The Democrats are about to select Muslim Brotherhood member Keith Ellison as their next Party Chairman. The Muslim Brotherhood was founded by Hassan al Banna who became a Hitler follower before he became Chancellor. The MB is the Arab Nazi Party. So the Democrats will be led by an actual Nazi.

Fascism is always descending on the Repu lican Party bit always seems to land on the Democrats.

The dems for decades have tried to spread the fiction that political orientation is a line where GOP on the right and Fascists to the extreme right. They then sell the BS that they are slightly left of a mythical center and socialist are WAY to the left of them, then marxists/commies are WAYYYY further left. BS fascist is just another fancy college boy term for a marxist and the modern demtard party is sitting on the lap of ole Karl.

The dems have an interesting future as the new age “progressive” twits of the Hillary generation now are looking at a real battle with the wackadoodle Crazy Bernie anarchists. It’s a hoot they have adopted a geriatric nut as their figurehead. The blue collar union types are homeless and still trying to exhume FDR while all the misc. misfit degenerates of the other special interest dem groups are just roadkill pawns. My their life be interesting.

Japan has a LOWER per capita of suicide and homicide due to strict firearm control laws, better healthcare, education, increased personal freedoms and improved economy.

In japan your allowed no bigger than a double-barrel shotgun and after 10 years if you have the license that long a hunting rifle.

Most illegal guns which are a tiny minority in Japan have been traced to have come from the US since the NRA or the gun lobby in general refuses to allow anything that would stop smuggling of arms into the hands of crime organization or terror groups.

Mass killings are very rare over there…Versus the 100s of 1000s of mass shootings that happen everyday here.

Most japanese people shun firearms due to the fact it is nothing but a cowardly weapon. A gun is a tool of oppression and hate.

You deluded folks in gun cookoo-land have the nerve the make accusations that japan is an Orwellian hellhole when the irony is that countries with high gun ownership are the most oppressive crap-holes out there.

The japanese are the mostly freedom-loving tolerant people in the world. This “hate” for outsiders is nothing but pure utter crap that brainwashed masses of the gun like you continue to spew.

I still continue to be glad I’ve no comprehension of your insane psychotic delusions.

Somehow having expanded background checks and requirements to take gun safety courses are somehow “tyrannical.”

“Versus the 100s of 1000s of mass shootings that happen everyday here.”

Well “100s” implies multiple hundreds of thousands, so shall we say at least 200,000 daily? And for it to qualify as a “mass shooting”, that would probably require at least, what, 3 victims? So, 600,000 people die in the USA every single day due to shootings, apparently. Given that the current US population is around 325,000,000, that gives us a little less than 2 years before the population reaches 0, and that’s assuming the bare MINIMUM of APAPGT’s claims!

In all seriousness, though, I’m rather curious as to why and how Japan’s relative lack of guns would have any bearing whatsoever on the suicide rate. I’m pretty sure most suicides in Japan are either seppuku (in protest) or hanging; neither of which require any guns at all.

When I last visited Japan (2011?) there was a news report of a man disemboweling himself on the steps of a government building as a form of protest. Is it called something different when it’s done for these reasons?

JJ48, i’m sure someone on this site knows more about Japanese culture than do I, but my understanding is seppuku is about bringing dishonor upon one’s family, though it would not surprise me if i am wrong.

Suppose I agree that Trump is Hitler. Than you must agree that America is Nazi Germany. So Japan will remain our ally. That is good.

That would also mean that boxcars and ovens will be making a comeback real soon as we Make America White Again. That is also good. You wont have to worry though, you’ll probably be shot in the street. Since open dissent of the God Emperor Trump will not be tolerated by those who wear the deaths head ring in your analogy.

So if we are applying your logic, and I were you, I would probably start worshiping the God Emperor Trump, because otherwise your future looks grim.

How many Black ghettos in Japan?
How many Hispanic gangs in Japan?
How many illegal aliens in Japan?
How many pregnant illegals giving birth to now legal Japanese children in Japan?
Just wondering.
Stop comparing other countries to the USA.

Yes, I’m sure gun owners were pushed to Trump thanks to the left’s ridiculous gun control proposals. That’s a given. But what did the left get for it? I suggest that there stances on guns, fitting nicely with an attack on rural America and middle-American culture, did plenty to lose them votes but gained none (that’s a problem in a republic). The only people who would be swung to the left thanks to a gun-control message are the same people who would be voting for them anyway.

It’s a loser of an issue, politically. And with crime skyrocketing in cities like Baltimore with the strictest gun laws, it’s a loser of an issue on the merits as well. But it’s an EASY issue. It’s a nice issue because it rallies the base and allows politicians sound indignant and demonize any against them.

I didn’t say anything good about Trump in my post. Did you mean to respond to someone else or is your response to just attack Trump, even if it’s a complete non-sequitur?

What I’m suggesting is that if you DON’T want Trump (and people like him) to win, stop alienating the electorate with issues that don’t get you any votes. Hillary Clinton (and the left) is winning no support based on their gun control ideas. Anyone who is all about gun control is going to vote for Clinton regardless. But in exchange for those non-votes they LOSE some because there are lots of independents or what used to be called ‘blue dog democrats’ who care about the 2nd Amendment and are now voting against the left (where they didn’t before).

We certainly had a hand in Trump’s rise.
But, the old adage that: “It’s the Economy, stupid!” applies to just about every election. It was the midwest that has been Blue for decades that decided things. Michael Moore realized this some time ago. Despite his warnings about the upset that was in the making, the press decided he was a fat, insane loser that could be disregarded.

You know the ‘world’s turned upside down’ when I throw Michael Moore a bone.

It is going to be interesting to see HOW the FED-UP voters that were “CONNED” into voting for Trump based on his ANTI-establishment rhetoric respond to his bait and switch tactics.

Appointing someone that supports the “POTG” a loose fringe group of neo-nazis, white supremacists and anti-Semites” is going to make many average citizens that supported Trump very afraid that they elected the next Hitler..

2000 we get W. elected with the electoral vote, not popular vote, and Bill Clinton himself says it was because Gore pushed for gun control during the primaries.

Dems back off guns in campaigns.

2016 we get Trump elected with the electoral vote, not popular vote.

No, it’s just a coincidence! Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain voting for guns in rural states!

The media is useless, as they proved this election. They REFUSE to admit what is obvious- Trump is popular AND that guns gave us the vote. Because that would explode their magic liberal consensus they still haven’t abandoned.

Newt Gingrich said it best when he said if the popular vote mattered, the Republican Party would have invested in other states and gained another two million votes. Now the Progressives in the Blue states that want to legislate that their state’s electorates be forced to give their vote to the winner of the popular vote… SURE THING! Just like gun control, we’ll see yet another example of the law of unintended consequences smash into the faces of people with no logical reasoning skills.

Not sure i buy that one. “Investing” does not mean “winning.” I do believe, however, if all the votes were tallied, including the mail votes (which, as i understand it, are not counted in many if not all stats if there is no statistical way they could change the outcome), that Trump could well have won the popular vote, as well.

The one thing that effected the most percentage of people is obamacare. Government made you pay for it, and if you could not afford to pay twice for less coverage, you were fined. I was paying more for health care (family of four) than a mortgage payment. All that coin went to treating illegals that swamp the ER.

Trump killed both the Clinton and Bush political machines. i can put my rifle away for now.

Another question. I wonder how many “Progressives” still support the Terror Watch, No Fly, and No Fly No Buy lists now that Trump is elected and running the Executive Branch?

Also, wouldn’t it be more “common sense” to have a No Buy No Fly list — if you’re not allowed your constitutional right to keep and bear arms, then you shouldn’t be allowed to fly on an airplane or drive a car? I bet “Progressives” everywhere would soil themselves and demand the removal of all these unconstitutional government lists.