Can't let last nights election result pass without some comment, especially as we have some members here in the USA.

I felt the coverage of the election over here (NZ, but mostly parroting what was coming from the US) was very skewed by a press that did not want Trump to win, so didn't pick up on, or didn't report the thoughts and feelings of the people the big red band through the guts of the US. They can't all have been redneck and morons as reported can they?

message for me is that we have created the same divisions in our society in NZ as in the USA. A lot of people are pretty well off, but a lot are not. Successive socialist governments failed to address the situation, the current conservative governments do want to even see the problem.

Example..Our PM was interviewed on Tv last night and asked could he work with Trump? Yes of course he said, we do things well down here, he is bound to want to talk to us... I doubt the families living in cars and garages in South Auckland or great swaths of people earned just above and below the minimum wage, or the large number of children n NZ living below the UN poverty line, would agree with him.

Everyone at the DNC needs to go, and reform of that organisation is paramount. Clinton was so totally unacceptable as a candidate as to be laughable. You don't have to look far, and have any sense of right and wrong to realise that the criminality of her, and everyone around her meant that the populace were being played for fools. And they weren't having any of it.

The Republicans also got exactly what they deserved with Donald. If you let the fundamentalist Christian element take over your party, and the only opposition you have to someone like him is a bat shit crazy bible thumping lunatic, or a bumbling fool......well that's the outcome.

And the main stream media......So completely bought and paid for by corporate interests and parroting the company line. Never doing any real investigative work, and if a story does come out that doesn't fit with their very biased view, then they do their utmost best to either mock or lampoon, destroy the integrity of the source, or completely ignore it.

And then there is the money that was spent. I heard last night that it was 8.something billion dollars.

Every country needs to get the money out of politics. But I don't see any political party wanting to pass that, as they are all so addicted to the cash. That is until we get a third "fringe party" that will, and they take the next election.

It's only a politician that doesn't see..... or care...... that when someone donates more than $1,000 that they want and expect something in return.

Just watch as the stance that so many in Europe, North America and here in Australia changes. The world's elite, media and political parties are now well and truely put on notice.

Americans clearly not happy with the government they've currently got.....but is Trump going to give them something better?

I hope for America's sake Trump has some good advisors and people in his administration who are good at diplomacy because Trump sure isn't a diplomat. If he thinks he can run America like he runs his businesses then America is in serious trouble.

You guys know more about what’s going on here than a lot of so called Americans.

I have followed Trump since he came out with “The Art of the Deal” last century. Oddly enough he was actually born the day after me. That’s why I gave up on astrology. The stars couldn’t possibly have changed that much in one day but I guess they did but “The Donald” does not know how to build guitars either, so there.

Trump is a get er done kind of guy and he always surrounds himself with the best and most knowledgeable people he can find. He has had his share of setbacks over time but always manages to come back stronger and learn for those mistakes. He does what he says he will do and usually on or before time and under budget. The US Corporation is a business and finally it will have a truly successful business man at the helm. He is a very tough negotiator but always fair. He is respected by the likes of Putin which is more than can be said for Obama whom he sees as weak. This alone just might prevent a WWIII when two people who respect each other can sit down at a table and come to a mutual understanding.

He is meeting with Obama tomorrow at the “White House” to discuss a peaceful transition. Even the Republicans in Congress are now realizing that he meant business and they are beginning to take him seriously.

Contrary to previous posts the “United States of America” is a full fledged corporation and therefor a ‘business’. Obama never even ran a Lemonade Stand let alone a business of any kind. Trump knows how to manage people successfully. He also knows that taxing people to death and loading businesses with tons of regulations and laws that drain them financially is not the way to stimulate economic growth.

I am not a fan of Cristy or Juliani as they have been career politicians so they are the status quo in that regard. The next week will provide us with lots of new things to talk about. Interestingly Trump just opened up the newest Trump Hotel in Washington DC that he built out of the old Post Office about a block from the White House. He can move in there now if he wants to and literally have a home block away.

He will have to live with a lesser life style at the White House but he will manage, believe me.

Max Taylor wrote: The US Corporation is a business and finally it will have a truly successful business man at the helm.

This is where he's going to have a problem......running a business is all about making a profit...running a nation is alot more complicated and requires skills and qualities that not all business people possess. I'm talking about compassion, empathy, diplomacy...and the ability to unite a divided nation. All skills and qualities I have yet to see displayed by Trump.

Thanks Max for your view from across the ditch. I notice the press demonisation of Trump continues, with reports of "mass protests" of a few hundred people here and there front and centre. Presumably that's happening there, too.

Make no mistake I don't like the guy and I would have voted for Clinton but as she says, he deserves a chance.

My hope is that some of the more outrageous things he has said were down to him doing whatever he had to do or say to win the election. Things are always different once they take up office. I remember literally cheering when Obama said the first thing he was going to do was close down Guantanamo Bay....it's still there. Still no universal and free public healthcare system either, or so I understand. And it has to be said Obama needs to shoulder much of the blame for this loss. He had 8 years to do something about whatever has made those people so angry they would vote for someone like DT to get his attention, and didn't.

He is no diplomat, Martin, I agree. I think that's one of the positive aspects. The UN is full of diplomats. Just remind me what that actually achieves these days?

Personally, if the press in NZ is anything to go by, incredulous and patronising by turns, we are in danger of making the same mistakes that Clinton made. Not listening to what a large number of Americans are actually saying and underestimating Donald Trump.

seeaxe wrote:
He is no diplomat, Martin, I agree. I think that's one of the positive aspects. The UN is full of diplomats. Just remind me what that actually achieves these days?

The UN has had mixed success over the years but it doesn't mean it's the dead head organization it's made out to be by Trump and his like. The victims of ethnic cleansing carried out by Bosnian Serbs during the Balkans conflict would have gone un-punished if it hadn't been for the International Court of Justice....the judicial arm of the UN. Another example is the mass vaccination programs carried out by the WHO in many third world countries. If you compare the success of US peace keeping efforts against those carried out by the UN...the UN has a much better record than the US.

There are several changes afoot within the US now, and many voices are lobbying constituents to support their particular line of thinking, they make compelling arguments and yet they all disagree. impossible to summarize/analyse with any single stmt or point of view. I believe that those that are trying to draw meaningful conclusions from this election's results and apply them to future elections are tipping in the wind. IMO the US will continue to wave like a flag in the breeze until one of two things occur:

1. A tragic event which effects widespread portions of the population. We saw this briefly (say for a year or so following 9/11, but its impact did not last long)
2. An inspired leader emerges that appeals to common/eternal values that are shared by all. (unfortunately this might only be possible if #1 rocks people to their core.)

I wish I could envision a brighter picture, but as the pendulum of public opinion swings wider and wider in opposing directions, I don't foresee a change in direction.

I'm just trying to look for a few positives in all of this because its being painted so black by a lot of people, in particular the press.

In my view the career politicians and diplomats have a very poor track record - a lot needs to change for USA to return to its founding principles. I don't actually think DT is going to do that, given his likely bias toward big business but his predecessors haven't so why not approach with an open mind instead of looking for fault and predicting doom and destruction before it happens.

As for USA being a business - we have an USAian telling us it is a business! I believe him. And businesses run the world these days, not diplomats so maybe he will have a better measure of them than the mandarins that preceded him.

seeaxe wrote:
As for USA being a business - we have an USAian telling us it is a business! I believe him. And businesses run the world these days, not diplomats so maybe he will have a better measure of them than the mandarins that preceded him.

Cheers

If you think the world operates like a business then IMO you have an overly simplistic view of the world

The only way I'd change my mind about Trump would be if he killed off The Lacey Act..

seeaxe wrote:
As for USA being a business - we have an USAian telling us it is a business! I believe him. And businesses run the world these days, not diplomats so maybe he will have a better measure of them than the mandarins that preceded him.

Cheers

If you think the world operates like a business then IMO you have an overly simplistic view of the world

The only way I'd change my mind about Trump would be if he killed off The Lacey Act..

Haha, Martin, wonder if someone told him the Lacey Act stops people getting their wood out, he would support repeal

Anyway, I didn't say it runs like a business, I said businesses run it. I don't think I have an over simplified view of how the world works, but I do have a simple view of who is working it. Seems you have a less cynical view than I, in which case good for you. I hope you are right.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind about Trump or anyone else. Just saying it might not be as bad as its being painted.

Well I believe that DT is a conman. He is not going to do half of what he said he would do either because (1) he never intended to implement, but it was a good salesman pitch for the election, or (2) it is too hard to implement for various reasons (e.g. make him very unpopular), or (3) it is impossible to implement (e.g. the wall), or is illegal. This of course sounds very familiar to us Australians. We elected a conman (Abbott) who promised some similar things such as cut taxes, increase spending and balance the budget all at the same time. Without some sort of miracle economic boom that greatly increases revenue, that belongs in the impossible section. But then DT is promising an economic boom. That probably won't happen so he could be in trouble in times to come. What happened to conman Abbott? They got rid of him, well sort of.

Well-not-to-be-too-cynical, the earth is well-over-populated, and the ecodome can only support so much more.

At some point the number of humans will out-strip the ecological capacity to provide. I predict this will be sooner than global warming will kick in (but mercifully i wont be alive quite long enough to see it. Palm oil anyone?? ). Once the two curves collide it will be bedlam.

Think PetriDish!

As far as economics (artificial ecology ??), once the main systems (BANKS) were decoupled from reality ( removing gold standards?? et. al.) it all becomes a race to see how quickly the resources can be extracted and sold. The slightest drop in demand is a catastrophic drop in prices or vice verse.

Politics used to be a reflection of the people, recently its been fed to us through the media, maybe its swinging back???

Disclaimer:- I may or may not be responsible for any opinions or lack of opinions expressed on this forum

Part of a recent discussion revolved around whether or not the “UNITES STATES” is a private corporation or not. Trust me, it is. Donald J. Trump will become the CEO of this corporation and Congress is the Board of Directors and the Vice President will act as the COO.

Here is a link to a short article who’s information has been vetted hundreds of time and is about as factual as it gets. If anyone thinks that their country (NZ or AU) is not registered as a corporation then you have not been paying attention to what was done to you behind your back by those in charge. I won’t name any names but their initials are “Rothschilds” for one.

(link removed by admin)

Literally every government on the planet operates as a private corporation and there un “Admiralty Law” (the Law of the Sea) and not under any form of Common Law.

You have been advised so it might be worth doing some checking of your own. Folks, it is a fact. Hope it is enlightening.

The 'Sovereign citizen' nonsense to which you seem addicted has been rejected by every legal system in every nation in which people have tried to invoke it.

Linking to a nutty website proves nothing, and in addition you probably should investigate what constitutes anti-semitism.

As has already been mentioned by others above, government is about much more than business, or monetary systems. If you don't have any notion of community, or society, you're ill equipped to discuss politics of any country.

There are enough real conspiracies and challenges facing all of us without inventing more, in particular those that allow you to place all of your blame in one basket.

kiwigeo wrote:Keep this thread seemly you lot. Any comments targeting specific racial or religious groups should be made with care.

Thank your that. Nowhere was there any mention of an race of nationality within any of the information on the article to which I had posted a link. The article was only posted on a ‘site’. It was the contents of the article that was of importance and its relationship of governments as corporations.

There was never a mention of ‘sovereignty’ involved. Only that relating to “Common Law” so it appears that Kym obviously missed the point entirely. And as far as being “ill equipped” to even have a voice is also missing the point.

All governments are registered as corporation whether one want to believe it or not and operate under commercial law as do all cooperations otherwise they could not operate internationally at all.

An open mind here is essential to understanding all of this. The mind is like a parachute, it only operates when it is open.

Max Taylor wrote: Nowhere was there any mention of an race of nationality within any of the information on the article to which I had posted a link. The article was only posted on a ‘site’. It was the contents of the article that was of importance and its relationship of governments as corporations.

The site contains other articles which target specific groups of people. Eg. the article covering Hillary Clinton's plan to ship in arms to terrorist groups within the US. This article specifically mentions muslims and immigrants.

1. The 'Sovereign citizens', 'Freemen' (and locally the 'League of Rights' nutters) and their related splinter group offshoots believe that through a series of financial manipulations, or secret sessions of parliament/congress or because Prince Phillip is actually a lizard (there are many other possibilities mentioned, but these have all been seriously suggested) that all national laws are invalid and the only valid source of legislation is 'Admiralty Law', which is then believed to operate in a variety of creative ways unrelated to maritime purposes. 'Admiralty Law' is what poker players would call a 'tell' if you are looking to discover where someone got their ideas from. Another one is excessive references to Magna Carta.

2. The website that Max linked to is filled with nasty and racist nonsense and conspiracy theories. The website name and URL is itself an acronym for one of the more ridiculous conspiracies to do with a secret session of congress held under the first (senior) Bush administration which passed damaging financial laws which will be revealed ... soon. The standard of proof for the information on the site, including the article Max mentions, seems to be the use of the phrase 'it has been stated that'. I don't find this convincing.

3. Anyone seriously talking about financial conspiracies controlled by the Rothschilds is invariably one step away from bringing in 'the Jews', hence my comment about anti-semitism.

And, by the way, private corporations are different from national states, and don't deal with each other in the same ways.

An open mind is a great thing to have if you also have some critical thinking skills. Otherwise all sorts of nonsense can fall in.