Now just think to the 'things' weared by the XVI century soldiers. I think a modern soldier would be defeated by the smell before arriving at shooting distance from those guys

That is a very interesting observation. Keegan mentions the effect smell has on recalling memories of past battles for veterans.
The impression of a XVI century battlefield to your nostrils and other senses must have been something you never forgot! Perhaps closest for us comes a rugby match with its sweat, mud, violent encounters, the crazy feeling of being alive (plus singing, flag waving and fireworks at the sidelines). It may give a mild impression but it must be nothing compared to a real battle with blood, gunpowder and mud. For full effect I'm now imagining an encounter between Landsknechte for smell and colour and Ottoman troops for sound and fury. Truly an attack on all the senses.

__________________BoRG

You may not be interested in War, but War is interested in You - Leon Trotski, June 1919.

Wolfe Tone hit upon something. Furthermore, anyone interested in the history of the Wild Geese should research and study the decisive Battle of Fontenoy in Belgium in May of 1745. That was when 3800 members of the famed Irish Brigade, serving in the Army of France, were unleashed, like bloodthirsty hounds hell-bent on seeking revenge for all the wrongs done to their dear country, at the very end of that battle that pitted the forces of France against the formidable British-Dutch army. That's when the 3800 Irishmen furiously smashed into the disciplined and orderly ranks of over 16,000 English, Dutch and Hanoverian troops who were advancing for the final kill (for the French army was on the verge of suffering this major rout by that point in time, having been bitch-slapped all day!). The initial coalescence of opposing troops and the ensuing hand-to-hand melee that resulted was blind, desperate and very ferocious to say the least, yet the Irish, with just a tad of help from two additional brigades of 500 each, comprised of Normans and Swiss respectively, eventually prevailed during that final, savage maelstrom as they fought like these wildly inspired, insane madmen, right after driving home their attack straight into the belly of their numerically superior foes! That final charge into the advancing British and Dutch ranks (the finest professional soldiers that the Brits could muster for that battle!) has to go down as one of the most ferocious, utterly intrepid and brutally devastating bayonet attacks ever launched in modern history, and in which the Irish screamed their terrifying war cries of "Remember Limerick!" before striking home. And during that desperate hand-to-hand struggle the British, Dutch and German soldiers were badly out-fought and mercilessly beaten to the ground by their more deadly, determined and proficient Irish foes, who could have probably raped em all yet instead chose to proudly display these captured enemy standards that were left behind by the defeated Brits and their Low Country/German buddies, who had been savagely repelled and broken before taking flight in this panic-stricken haste, retreating to safer pastures (The stakes in that particular battle had been very high, for if the Brits had won then they could have laid claim to all of Northern France and Belgium itself, thus preventing the possibility of French assistance for the American rebels 36 years later at the battle of Yorktown, for which they were badly needed, basically because all of France may have been conquered by then! The American cause would have been ****ed!). Fontenoy is only one example, though, of Irish ferocity, valor and battlefield prowess/heroics that were on display continuously throughout the entire history of the Wild Geese, those Irish exiles that served in the armies of France, Spain and Austria. My other favorite moments during the Age of Pike and Shot would have involved any sort of matchup and/or pike duel between the die-hard, fearsome Swiss (my favorites!) and their more professional Landsknechte counterparts, for such engagements were extremely bloody and gory, with each side usually prepared and resigned to fight until the death if need be rather than retreat from the field of battle (many units and regiments representing each side have at times reported to have lost as many as 95% of their entire strength during many of those murderous Swiss/Lanzi pike encounters-halberd/doppelsoldier sword clashes!). Also, each side was as reluctant to give quarter as to accept it, as the bloodbath at the battle Marignano, fought in 1515 (and often considered the greatest and bloodiest of encounters ever between the Swiss and the Lanzi!), so keenly and ruthlessly demonstrated! Though, as I've stated before, when it came to "push of pike" and fighting at close quarters in these tightly packed, kill or be killed melees, the Swiss were usually the more formidable, skilled and savage, while the Lanzis often displayed more efficient tactics and generally more professionalism overall. Up in the Scottish Highlands, during the Year of Miracles in 1644-45, Montrose and Alasdair MacColla's Army of seasoned Irish soldiers, rugged Highlanders, highly proficient Strathbogie pikemen, along with this tough contingent of often conflicted-as-to-their-loyalty Gordon cavalry, won, against all odds, this string of spectacular victories against these more modern, better equipped and professional Lowland armies. It was by exercising this rather new and revolutionary concept of tactical flexibility based on combining this single round of shot and this superior mobility and speed (an advantage that was usually unleashed after firing one round of shot at very close range in order to cause this brief confusion and disorder within the enemy ranks) with the devastating impact of shock power, or the so-called Highland/Irish charge, that Montrose's Gaelic army was able to not only overcome several very formidable, larger and superbly trained veteran Scottish Lowland armies (some of whom had fought down in England on the bloody fields of Marston Moor!) but to entirely rout them in the process. And during most of the engagements that took place during that time (with the battle of Auldearn being the exception because of this boggy, broken ground) the supremely fearsome and terrifying Highland/Irish charge was put to use with great success and truly astonishing, yet gruesome, results! It was widely deemed to be the most effective and devastating offensive tactic in all of Europe, if not the World, between roughly 1550 and 1647, as it combined both shot, much battlefield flexibility and maneuverability based on speed and mobility, with the nasty impact of shock, without leaving any defensive vulnerabilities, that made it so unique, deadly and altogether radical at that time. So basically its doctrine was based on limited shot, speed, tactical flexibility and brute/savage striking force while most other contemporary European armies heavily emphasized and relied upon these more defensive-orientated tactics and more complex warfare doctrines that often eschewed any notions of focusing primarily upon purely offensive objectives based on one mad rush at the enemy. As it was the various actions and movements on the European battlefields were scarcely as simple and as cut-and-dry as the rather primitive Highland/Irish charge. Also, the animal ferocity and unmatched courage of those indomitable Celtic warriors in no small way contributed to much of its success! Though besides the raging insanity and impetuosity of those blood-curdling Celts, I would have to say that discussing any showdown that took place between the Swiss pikemen and German Lanzis would certainly make my day and rank as among one of my favorite moments during the glorious age of pike and shot. I would gladly give my left nut to actually witness one of those bloody and earthshattering pike encounters that shook the very ground, repelled the squeamish and womanly, left piles of butchered and mangled bodies strewn all over the place and mainly served to intensify the hatred between two legendary rivals who would each rather die than surrender in what the Italian spectators referred to as "bad war!" The Swiss and the Lanzis rocked!!!

Bally, never forget the battle of Benburb (fought in either Co. Tyrone or Cavan!) that was fought in 1646 between the Gaelic Irish forces serving under the great Owen Roe O'Neil, and the Scottish/N. Irish Presbyterian forces serving under the Scot general Monroe. O'Neil's Irish Army, 5000 strong, not only successfully out-maneuvered and displayed greater tactics than its adversary (as Prince William did at the Boyne!), it simply out-fought (soon after each side came together), through this savage and relentless "push of pike", the larger Scottish/Presbyterian Army, which was 6500 strong, in one of the most ferocious and determined pike encounters of that day (each side was regarded as having the finest pikemen on Earth!)! After out thrusting and out jabbing their numerically superior foes, and thus gradually driving them back, the "mickey bastards" not only routed their Protestant foes but also annihilated them in the process, cutting them to little pieces (though the Scots and the Irish Prods put up this real tough, fierce fight, and they gave it everything that they had, I give them that!). The final casualty tally for Monroe's splendid, yet entirely routed, Scot/Presbyterian Army was something like 3500-4000 dead, while the Irish lost something like 200-250 men dead on that bloody field. And what an Irish victory it was! Kudos to the O'Neil for his brilliant maneuvering and timing, yet the real credit goes to those Irish pikemen who fought like men inspired and won the field against their numerically superior foes through their amazing, non-stop and utterly tenacious "push of pike!" How do ya like them apples my son?

Anytime I read of a battle where two roughly equal sides engage and then see casualties of 3500 to 4000 for one side and 200 to 250 for the other, I assume that the smaller casualty army routed the other side. In Pike Armies most of the casualties come after one side quits and tries to run, same as Phalanx and Legion battles. Morale is what usually sets off the rout. If the Irish came in on a flank, surprized them or cut off their supplies, that would be the morale killer.

I am a bit prejudiced about European Mercenary Armies. I would want a mix of Irish and Lowland Scot Pikemen and Highland Infantry, with Border Light Cavalry in support. I hate to call Highland Infantry Pikemen, because the famed Highland charge did not use pikes or more than one shot of firearms. They threw down large weapons, pulled their claymores and dirks and used their targes at the point of attack.

Pruitt, I think you read my mind, for that is exactly the same mix of soldiers that I would employ and deploy into battle if I had lived during those days (that awesome "dream team" of Irish and Scottish infantry/pikemen/light cavalry!). I can honest to God say that in this even matchup between an equal number of Swiss/Lanzi/Tercio pikemen/infantry and Irish/Scots Highlander/Lowlander pikemen/infantry, on terrain that's neither advantageous nor disadvantageous for either side, for my money I would definitely go with the Irish/Scots mainly because they were more vicious and ferocious, were quite capable of deploying these very flexible battle tactics, and last but not least the terrifying speed, mobility and impact of the Highland charge (used with claymores, dirks and targes!), if unleashed during exactly the right moment in battle, would not only prove decisive but would utterly demoralize the Swiss/Lanzi/Tercio army. I'm certain that in that type of matchup you and I see eye to eye, because as you previously stated you have this rational, thoughtful preference for Celtic warriors. Case in point, the Battle of Knockdoe, Ireland, in 1647 would be this great example of how effective and devastating the Highland charge could be. For although the Catholics lost that battle (due primarily to bad leadership, inadequate discipline, poor morale and this lack of sufficient firepower) during the initial phases the Highland charge was launched from the Irish right wing, and it proved truly effective, fearsome and terrifying to the opposing, numerically superior English ranks (men who were also the finest and toughest soldiers serving in that particular army!), who fled in sheer terror at the sight of that mixed bag of 800 mostly Antrim MacDonalds and some regular Scots Highlanders charging at them at top speed, flashing their claymores (the Antrim MacDonalds/Highlanders were actually born in Ireland, of Highland parentage and genetics, yet they were raised in basically the same fashion as their cousins who were born and bred in the Highlands!). It was a rout indeed, and that segment of the English Army that faced the charging Antrim Highlanders contained something like 3000 highly trained, thoroughly professional pikemen/infantry, yet they still ran! Sad to say, and as history would have it, the left wing of the Irish Army soon retreated and melted away because of this severe deficiency in leadership, training and morale, so therefore the triumphant Antrim Highlanders, who had easily penetrated the enemy positions, were eventually isolated, surrounded and slaughtered by the English cavalry and the same vengeful, re-ordered pikemen that they had previously chased away. The English also exhibited far superior tactics and unit discipline/coordination than their Irish foes did that day, much to the terrible dismay of their Antrim/Highland buddies in arms, who suffered horribly as a consequence! Thus were those near invincible Irish Highlanders encircled and wiped out to a man as they fought to the death in much the same way that Custer's men did during their final stand (though the Antrim Highlanders, unlike Custer's brave men, if they so chose, could have surrendered, yet they kept on fighting till the bitter end as was their custom!)! Actually on one of the more recent posts in this thread I go into detail on how the Highland/Irish charge was launched, the great speed and mobility involved and all the elements of tactical flexibility that would often contribute to its stunning success (which was mainly achieved through the ferocious timing, speed and impact of the charging Highlanders/Irish MacDonalds, who kept their military doctrines rather simple and mainly offensively-orientated, as you well know!), allowing it to become, as it evolved through time with the incorporation of firearms and targes, thee deadliest and most devastating offensive tactic in the World, circa 1550-1650 (one also has to take into account the individual prowess, great finesse, fierce determination and the expert dexterity with blade weapons/pikes that those spectacular Gaelic warriors possessed!)! Pruitt, if you get the time go back to the Swiss/Lanzi thread and check out the last post/question that I added on and feel free to add your own opinion so as to properly close out that discussion (for I have yet to read your opinion on who you think may have been the more formidable and effective in battle, the Swiss or the German Lanzis, and trust me, your opinion really matters). Thanks, Taylor!

Bally, never forget the battle of Benburb (fought in either Co. Tyrone or Cavan!) that was fought in 1646 between the Gaelic Irish forces serving under the great Owen Roe O'Neil, and the Scottish/N. Irish Presbyterian forces serving under the Scot general Monroe. O'Neil's Irish Army, 5000 strong, not only successfully out-maneuvered and displayed greater tactics than its adversary (as Prince William did at the Boyne!), it simply out-fought (soon after each side came together), through this savage and relentless "push of pike", the larger Scottish/Presbyterian Army, which was 6500 strong, in one of the most ferocious and determined pike encounters of that day (each side was regarded as having the finest pikemen on Earth!)! After out thrusting and out jabbing their numerically superior foes, and thus gradually driving them back, the "mickey bastards" not only routed their Protestant foes but also annihilated them in the process, cutting them to little pieces (though the Scots and the Irish Prods put up this real tough, fierce fight, and they gave it everything that they had, I give them that!). The final casualty tally for Monroe's splendid, yet entirely routed, Scot/Presbyterian Army was something like 3500-4000 dead, while the Irish lost something like 200-250 men dead on that bloody field. And what an Irish victory it was! Kudos to the O'Neil for his brilliant maneuvering and timing, yet the real credit goes to those Irish pikemen who fought like men inspired and won the field against their numerically superior foes through their amazing, non-stop and utterly tenacious "push of pike!" How do ya like them apples my son?

Read that story in the local library years ago .They had to beat us in battle now and again .Even the good old U S of A dosnt win all the time.

Thats David Jeffrey.Team manager of Belfast football side Linfield.The photo was taken in Tolka park Dublin, 21 of may 2005 after Linfield beat Dublin side Shelbourne in the Setanta all ireland final 2-0.About 500 of us went down to Dublin for the game and were allowed into Shelbournes social club for a few beers before the game.Shelbourne fans made us very welcome.Some IRA supporters tried to have a go at us but the gaurds delt with them very quickly.A day to remember.

Here's something else that Pruitt touched upon concerning the Highland/Irish charge of the period 1644-1746. What he mentioned, and I should have gone into detail on, was that "the Gaelic Scots and Irish won eight major battles by using variations of the Irish charge (depending, of course, on the makeup of the terrain)." They did that basically by keeping "great freedom of manuever, speed and range" (tactical flexibility), and by emphasising, during that period, "the frontal shock attack across rugged terrain, with the broadsword-and not the musket-as the primary weapon." So by arraying "in a line formation, usually on a stand of high ground, the Celtic warriors advanced quickly with broadswords, target (this shield) and musket. When between 60 and 20 yards distant from their foes, the Gaels fired a wild musket volley designed to confuse the defenders with lead and smoke. They then cast away their firearms, formed wedges or rough columns 12 to 15 men wide, and drew broadswords for hand-to-hand combat (immediately launching themselves into their foe, who would most likely be partially blinded and disordered by the smoke, and in the process hacking them to pieces with their single-handed broadswords and dirks, with the utmost viciousness and savagery, right after crashing into them at full speed!!!)."

Moreover, because of their greater mobility and freedom of range the Gaels "possessed the tactical flexibility that permitted them to choose their method of attack---frontal or flank." "Frontal attacks depended upon shock power; flank attacks initially upon superior mobility." Though by combining the two capabilities of that "dynamic new tactical configuration" that was developed, actually perfected, by the ultra-fearsome Alasdair MacColla over in Northern Ireland in 1642, the Irish and Scots were able to use their superior mobility "to enhance their shock power by forcing an adversary to turn 'front to flank', thereby disrupting his formation and creating confusion in the ranks." And the attacking Irish and Scots almost always wielded these single-handed broadswords, which they drew right after tossing down their muskets which had recently discharged one round, as they ran and smashed into their usually better equipped, more professional Lowland foes, in the process usually routing and cutting them into little pieces!!!

That particular brand of tactical flexibility (mobility and shock power!), relatively new and radical as it was, was used to devastating effect at the Battles of Auldearn and Kilsyth in 1645, and in all the other battles that took place during the "Year of Miracles" up in the Highlands (1644-1645) the Irish and the Scots were able to choose "the hard-charging frontal assault" as they crashed into their Lowland/Campbell enemies with this blind fury and savage ferocity (yet in terms of their weapon handling abilities with swords and dirks they were most proficient and skilled!) that made the Highland/Irish charge into the most ferocious, deadliest, most effective and most terrifying offensive tactic in the World between that period of 1642 until roughly 1746 at the Battle of Culloden up in the Scottish Highlands. So essentially what that radically new offensive tactic did was solved that "dilemma of combining 'hitting power and mobility'", and unlike other European armies at the time the Gaels "use of firearms did not sacrifice offensive striking power and mobility for static defensive firepower." Though their muskets were only good for one shot before they threw them to the ground and drew their famed broadswords and deadly dirks in order to exploit their foe's recent confusion by launching an attack and pressing home "with the effect of charging cavalry!" Though like all good things, and because of these technological improvements like the socket bayonet, and better defensive tactics that involved the thrusting of those bayonets into the side of the Highlander's exposed ribcage, the Irish/Highland charge soon became obsolete and largely ineffective, this thing of the past.

Another perspective concerning the concept/breakdown of tactical flexibility that needs examining is that once any offensive attack (from the Gaelic Irish and Scottish Highlanders!) had to be aborted, whether because of broken, uneven, or boggy ground strewn with reeds, boulders and other natural impediments, the by now foundering/retreating/besieged party (who had to give up on pressing home the attack, thus reversing their prior momentum) could, while under most circumstances, eventually rely upon the presence of another, well-positioned, allied party/force usually located on the wings, or flank, of their entire, bogged-down army that was presently being assailed by the very same force that they attacked in the first place.

Furthermore, that additional force, or detachment, could be immediately launched from the wings, at this advantageous and well directed angle, into the flanks of the attacking enemy force, so therefore coming to the aid of their besieged buddies in arms and better yet, forcing that aggressive foe attacking their buddies to partially halt, turn certain elements "front to flank" and thus lose much of its by now stalled/deflated momentum. That in turn would create, as I previously mentioned, much confusion and disorder within that surprised force's ranks, or formation, and its ranks would usually become irretrievably disrupted even before the full force and fury of its (now approaching with great speed!) adversary's imminent, sudden and ferocious charge was pressed home, with brutal impact, into its by now rather dis-ordered and inadequately arrayed flanks/sides.

That, in a nutshell, is another way of looking at and explaining the whole meaning, purpose and significance behind the concept of tactical flexibility and battlefield manueverability, and how they worked, especially as to how each related to and fit into the overall sphere of the ultra, ultra fearsome Irish/Highland charge (which, tactically and figuratively speaking, and according to the experts, was the most ferocious, effective and devastating missile force on the planet during the age of pike and shot, certainly more deadly and fierce---even when being executed with just single-handed broadswords and round shields---than anything any Swiss, Landsknechte, Tercio, Swedish, English or Scottish Lowland formation could unleash!!! Hey, call me biased, but evidence abounds!).

Also, the Battle of Auldearn in 1645 is a prime example of how all the elements of tactical flexibility came into play, at least in terms of how it was compatible with the rather simple, cut-and-dry, mid 17th century Irish/Scottish battlefield doctrine (which was deemed quite irregular, primitive and radical when compared to all the other, more sophisticated and complex European warfare/battlefield doctrines of the time!).

For during that awesome Battle, 33 year old James Graham's (otherwise better known to history as the First Marquis of Montrose) spectacular, supremely warlike Antrim Irish mercenaries and Highlanders, who were under the direct command of the great, 7-foot tall Alaisdair MacColla, had to abort their initial charge that was launched across this expanse of boggy, wet ground (the major reason for that near-fatal abortion!) and fall back in good, steady fighting order, taking this secondary position against the walls of several randomly set-up cottages "amongst the straggling gardens and broken ground to the rear of the village." Soon the fearless, giant Alaisdair and his undaunted boys found themselves being mercilessly assailed by the extremely formidable Lowland pikes being viciously and relentlessly thrust into their round targes, from which they were able to hack off the heads of many of those jabbing, stabbing pikes (and those famed, veteran soldiers from the Scottish Lowlands, along with the Ulster Irish under O'Neil, were the finest and most aggressive pikemen in the World!).

During that desperate and furious hand-to-hand struggle, featuring 2500-3000 pikes being thrust against 700 targes, many astonishing feats of arms and military valor were on constant display from both sides as the ferociously determined fighting, hacking and stabbing intensified. Though as the beleaguered Irish and Scottish Highlanders had their backs, literally, up against the cottage walls it seemed as though they would be overwhelmed and exterminated by the unrelenting pikes and raking musket fire of their hated Lowland foes, who were making these systematic, bloody inroads right through the maniacally chopping, slashing and swinging steel of the unceasing Gaelic swords. Though the Irish and Scots held on, fighting with this outstanding skill, ferocity and combat prowess scarcely rivalled in the entire history of warfare, as "Alaisdair fought as the paladins of old, his weighted broadsword doing fearful execution, and the fight raged on (also, according to very credible eye-witness accounts, breaking two swords in the process of hacking off many pike heads!)!"

Just as things seemed hopeless and insurmountable for Alaisdair MacColla and his death-defying boys, who were absorbing all the terrible shock from those powerful, ceaselessly jabbing Lowland pikes in this manner that could be deemed superhuman (for they were facing the best pikemen in the World!), Montrose unleashed the rest of his remaining, uncommitted force into the flanks of those very same, bloodthirsty, and tireless pikemen, and, initially, it was in the form of the heroic Gordon cavalry, roughly 300 strong, along with some additional mounted men fighting under the standard of Aboyne.

Though that super fierce cavalry attack alone wasn't quite enough to break the fighting spirit and morale of the dauntless Lowland pikemen, who stood their ground and fought it out like men inspired. It took the full force of the magnificent and unbreakable Strathbogie regiment (which hailed from the far North-east of Scotland!) to finally finish off the Covenanter pikemen. For after being launched into the battle by Montrose, and sweeping around the southern end of the village, the Strathbogie pikemen, something like 500 strong, took by surprise and then smashed into the flanks of their Lowland foes with the utmost ferocity and this determination that no force on Earth could resist. That was exactly when the Covenanter pikemen "clashed savagely with the Strathbogie men" and their Irish/Highlander allies, who were by now surging forward (and who had just regained their momentum and taken furious offensive action after having their backs up against the walls of several cottages!!!), forcing the Covenanting Lowlanders to falter and break. Before long the by now besieged Covenanting "line broke in a great torrent of despair" and they fled in terror of Montrose's entire Army, which was very hot on their heels! When all the smoke cleared there were over 2000 dead Lowlanders, many of them butchered and cut down in the ensuing rout (out of 3500 men committed to battle!), while the Montrose's force lost something like 150 to 200 men on the field in what was to prove to be their greatest victory of the whole campaign, as they snatched victory from the jaws of defeat while deploying this unique form of tactical flexibility that caused much disarray in the ranks of their very formidable, though thoroughly decimated, enemy.

Yet, with the exception of Kilsyth, their other 5 engagements during that amazing "Year of Miracles" would rely primarily upon the furious shock force and head on striking power of the renowned Irish/Highland charge, where basically their entire army was engaged all at the same time and no brilliant flanking manuevers became necessary. Auldearn, in 1645, proved to be the exception as the full range of Montrose's considerable battlefield savvy and tactical brilliance became known!!!

I think my favourite period in the Age of Pike and Shot would be the timeperiod between 1550-1600, the period of the religious wars in France, the time of the Spanish Armada, the time of the United Provinces rebellion against the Spanish...very, very interesting !!!
My favourite moment in this age must be to be able to see the way life was in the palace of Versailles under Louis XIV the Sun king !!!! Definitly...

Greets,
Stratego

__________________Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily.- Napoleon

It is better to fail in originality than to succeed in imitation.- Herman Melville

My favourite moment would be the 6th July, 1641. Louis, comte de Soissons and 2nd cousin of Louis XIII, is leading a rebellion against the king of France, inveighing against Cardinal Richelieu and his Machiavellian principles. He's backed not only by Spain, but by the duc de Bouillon, head of an independent principality based around Sedan. At La Marfée, he routs a French royal army under the Marshal de Châtillon: the road to Paris is open. Sadly, however, the comte de Soissons has developed the habit of lifting his visor with his pistol after a battle, and today happens to be the day it goes off. The rebellion collapses, and Louis keeps his throne.

The other main period that interests me is the Commonweath and Protectorate, between 1647 and 1658, simply because of the multitude of ways in which small changes could have reshaped the world as we know it. What if Charles accepts the Heads of the Proposals? What if Cromwell comes around to recruitment elections for the Rump? What if de Cardenas is able to out-bid Bordeaux? What if Vermeuden's proposals for an Anglo-Dutch union are implemented? It's the potential of the period, as much as the events themselves, that really interest me.