Springfield Armory has always fought hand-in-hand with the NRA, NSSF, ISRA and many others for legislation that fiercely protects the Second Amendment, individual rights and the industry as a whole. Our fight continues today as some members of the Illinois legislature are pushing to overregulate the industry through Gun Dealer Licensing Act (SB1657).

“At the time of my initial statement to the media, I was ill-informed of the ramifications of this bill and its detrimental effects to the Second Amendment, which I have personally fought to protect my entire life. I can tell you now, we at Springfield Armory are unequivocally 100 percent against this bill and will continue to work with the NRA and others to ensure that it is defeated,” said Dennis Reese, Chief Executive Officer, Springfield Armory.

Springfield Armory, like Rock River Arms, was not aware of the actions taken by our trade association, IFMA, until after the fact. We take this situation very seriously and are looking into how this very unfortunate lapse in communication occurred.

Springfield Armory has fought and defeated legislation like this in Illinois for the past 15 years. We are wholeheartedly against this bill and will fight to see it defeated as the unnecessary and harmful overreach that it is.

Jury still out. I’ve seen government do too many sketchy things to completely discount that springfield may have been conned by some piece of legislation that they thought was one thing and turned out to be something else.

I smell something, two words- 1st starts with a B and the 2nd starts with an S. Oh, now you know you did wrong. “But it wasn’t our fault, after all we’re run by toddlers here. If we would have known that the bad men that get tons of money from us would do something like this we wouldn’t have let the public know of our affiliation. We would have kept that secret, oops, I mean we would have never supported them with lots of money. Sorry.”

So, you’re either liars or incompetent. Guess what? Either way go pound sand. Some people think incompetence isn’t as bad as lying. Funny how every company that gets caught doing something wrong pleads ignorance. This is the gold standard in the world today for dirtbags. Incompetence is worse. How can I trust your product when your lying, incompetence, or ignorance destroys a fundamental right? Answer, I can’t and won’t. Anyone with have a brain will do the same. They got caught plain and simple and I hope they enjoy the bankruptcy that hopefully will shortly follow.

I think you should give them a break. SA at least deserves to be given the benefit of the doubt. SA is in the business of making great firearms and not politics. It is not too hard to believe that they were misled. I find it very doubtful that SA would

(1) Support anti Second Amendment legislation.
(2) Support legislation that would hurt firearm sales in their home state.
(3) Support legislation they surely would know would come back to haunt them unless they were misled.

Don’t have a zero defect mentality. Everyone has punted one into the stands at some point. I for one will give them the benefit of the doubt and continue to support them.

That would’ve worked Friday. Now with their joint statements of collusion, we know they were both in on it. Seriously, thinking that people won’t figure out how strange it is that both companies statements (released within minutes of each other mind you) try to absolve each other of knowing what the bill was is moronic.

They have a choice just as Ruger and S&W did to fix it- sell or kick the bucket. I’m so sick of this crap from companies. It’s bad enough we got the commies trying to gut us. Now we have to worry about getting stabbed in the back from what we thought were our friends.

The only way back is for ALL UPPER MANAGEMENT TO QUIT OR BE FIRED. THEN THE OWNERS CAN EITHER SELL OR PULL A BILL RUGER. AND NO, STEPPING DOWN AND MAKING SOMEONE CEO WHILE YOU KEEP OWNERSHIP WILL NOT WORK. YOU’VE SHOWN THAT YOU ARE NEVER TO BE TRUSTED AGAIN!

Short of that, I hope your future wikipedia pages speak nicely of how you are now defunct firearms makers that closed down in the 21st century. That will include what caused your bankruptcy and downfall as a warning to other companies of course.

The company has already gotten it’s exemption, they already made the deal and now are trying to do damage control. They knew exactly what was in this bill, they were only hoping that no one else would read into the bill.

Agreed…the more I think about the coordinated Springfield/RAA press release, the more this feels like pure damage control. They had to know what IFMA was doing. They are going to have to find a way, no matter what it costs them, to get this legislation killed for me to be satisfied now…and I doubt at this point, they can pull that off even if they wanted to.

I was shocked that they could do this, even through paid lobbists. Illinois politics, all the backdoor shenanigans have to stop. This is a new century and that Chicago buddy buddy politicing has to stop.

Even if this was sincere and they were actually just ignorant morons, this would still be too little too late. The only way they can recover is if this doesn’t end up passing and they played a huge role in defeating it.

I’m glad to see them change their minds but the bottom line is it really sounds like an excuse I mean I’m not a conspiracy theorist or anything silly like that but yeah it just seems like an excuse to me. They didn’t realize how much backlash that was going to cause them and their cells probably dropped like a thousand percent overnight since this if the news.

The principals of the IFMA are the principals of RRA and SA. It’s a very small group and it’s all the same people. There is no way they didn’t know. They made a deal with the devil and there is nothing they can say to walk this back.

They may not have accurately predicted how strongly their customer base would feel about this, but that’s just too bad. They could have asked Ruger or S&W. Or better yet ask Magpul.

If the legislation passes, regardless of any new attempts to derail it, they are still going to be held responsible. As they should. Because of their position, it passed the senate by 1 vote, ONLY because they stayed neutral. If they manage to kill the bill, then it’s possible that they may be eligible for forgiveness. Maybe.

If it was a mistake, then they better hope, pray and provide material support to prevent this bill does not becoming law, up to and including making a pledge to leave the state if it were to become law. That would be a start to repair the damage they’ve done. Personally though, I call BS on them not knowing about it. This was a CYA statement all the way and if you were that ignorant about what your trade association was doing, then you’re probably not competent enough to be my ally in this fight anyway.

Both RRA & Springfield released statements within minutes of each other. This was a joint damage control effort. If one company had “no idea” (as RRA claimed) why give cover in writing to the other lobbyist sponsor?

Are we to believe this was simultaneous indifference/incompetence/obliviousness by the CEO’s of both companies on legislation directly affecting them in process since March? Legislation that carved out exceptions for just those two companies?

I would like to see executive level employees from both SA and RRA at a few major gun shops in Illinois kissing the bare butts of gun owners. Maybe going door to door to kiss random asses. Then after a few thousand butts by both companies I would be willing to give them another chance.

Such drama from the gun snowflakes. Seriously, what the Fock do you guys expect in liberal Illinois? Gun makers have to deal with the Liberals that the liberals elected. This is the kind of shit that happens in blue states.

So your point is that RRA and SA are liberal? Because this is about what THEY did, not “liberal IL.” Nobody agrees with what Illinois is proposing, so there is no argument there.

What RRA and SA did was sell real Americans in Illinois down the river. Screw em. Then they appeared to try to discount it as no big deal. Double screw em. Then, they released these CYA statements as if that fixed anything.

So, please read for comprehension, Gray. No “snowflakes” here, just people of actual conviction willing to skip out on (previously) prized firearms to support our rights. You know, “sacrifice.” Sometimes we gotta earn what is already ours in this world.

No. my point is the liberal citizens of Illinois elected liberal politicians who now propose and enact all kinds of stupid gun laws. Now, firearms manufacturers have to find all kinds of ways to continue making a profit under these stupid rules. See, the problem is Democrats, not gun makers.

As for the Internet outrage, where were all you fuckers when Florida was failing to pass open carry legislation a few weeks ago. Threatening to boycott Florida? No.

Good on them. This is what I suspected all along – that the IFMA acted without their knowledge (after all, it’s the IFMA, not SA nor RRA on the list). I was one of the few that kept my cool, to give them a chance to explain themselves. I figured it went something like this behind the scenes, after all, there’s no way a gun company would work with politicians to get a carve out – there’s no way they couldn’t have seen the anger coming from a mile away. I blame TTAG for posting without investigating what actually happened first. This is why when TTAG declares they are a news site, I laugh. They posted unfounded information. Not only that, but the original article on TTAG mentioned SA and RRA directly in the headline, not IFMA, as it should have been worded.

“Good on them. This is what I suspected all along – that the IFMA acted without their knowledge (after all, it’s the IFMA, not SA nor RRA on the list). I was one of the few that kept my cool, to give them a chance to explain themselves. I figured it went something like this behind the scenes, after all, there’s no way a gun company would work with politicians to get a carve out – there’s no way they couldn’t have seen the anger coming from a mile away. I blame TTAG for posting without investigating what actually happened first. This is why when TTAG declares they are a news site, I laugh. They posted unfounded information. Not only that, but the original article on TTAG mentioned SA and RRA directly in the headline, not IFMA, as it should have been worded”

I would encourage the site owners to check poster’s IPs, and that of anyone rushing to defend companies which were, at best, asleep at the wheel when managing their legislative contractors.

I’ve found it often useful to geolocate questionable supporters/detractors or various issues, when running a board: https://www.iplocation.net (this is handy for Wikipedia edits also 😉

Not saying you’re a shill, just saying that a jointly published statement accepting zero responsibility and offering only vague promises to fight legislation means little. These two companies better pull out all stops and kill this bill.

They created this mess. Without their paid lobbyist, it would not have happened.

Thanks internet police. Check my IP all you want. I’ve been posting on TTAG for 2 or 3 years now on various types of stories. Unlike most, I happened to keep a level head to wait and see what Springfield had to say about the SB. I’m guessing that Springfield will fight this and prove their side with their actions in the near future.

When you attack the messenger (TTAG) and not the message (documented proof of bill changes favorable to SA / RRA to gain passage) your years of posting (as if that is in any way relevant) goes out the window.

They built this mess. They own it. Their survival depends on their ability to clean it up.

I missed an important implication in my post – “in this day and age”. I know about Ruger and S&W, but in the early 90s, things could be kept secret a little easier. Besides, I was a young teen back then so I didn’t care at that time.

You mean someone that waits for more information to come out, rather than over react to fake news like 95% of the TTAG commenters did? In this day and age, not reacting to the first bit of information someone spouts off as “fact” is a virtue. I believe that SA will work to fight against this bill and will be proven that they disagree with this SB. I don’t know if they’ll succeed in knocking it down, but lets hope so.

Sorry, but are you suggesting that the IFMA is some large org that could have made decisions without Springfield’s knowledge, let alone their approval? I’m not sure you’re getting it. Springfield formed this org to do their lobbying. It’s effectively their political wing, like the NRA ILA is to the NRA. The org does NOTHING without their mandate. At the absolute minimum, believing that the org would change its position on a bill without specific approval from Springfield is insane. Here’s your IFMA: https://www.campaignmoney.com/political/527/illinois-firearms-manufacturers-association.asp

Sure after the damage is done, we didn’t know nothing about it. How many days did it take for them to put out a release? I don’t buy it as SA and RRA are the big dogs that fund the lobbying and lobbyists don’t go off on their own to make deals.

Do you want an idiot CEO like this guy to be in charge of building your gun?

Both Springfield and RRA knew in advance what the deal was going to be. I highly doubt there was a rogue employee at the industry association that took action without consulting its largest, sponsoring manufacturers. So now we see the CEO’s of both companies doing the politician’s dance routine of “it wasn’t me, it was them”.

SA and RRA are dead to me. If this legislation passes, regardless of any steps to derail it at this point, my boycott will remain, forever. If they manage to stop this legislation, I may reconsider. I was so excited when the XDE was announced. That is indefinitely on the no buy list

No way this was an oops. This was much bigger. More like an oh ****! Both of these releases were obviously coordinated. They were drafted to answer the question, “What lies can we tell now so our customers won’t leave in droves?”

It doesn’t work for me. They’re still dead to me until I see actions to convince me otherwise. Rolling heads and firing lobbyists would be a small start in the right direction.

“At the time of my initial statement to the media, I was ill-informed of the ramifications of this bill and its detrimental effects to the Second Amendment, which I have personally fought to protect my entire life.”

I question your CEO creds.

First off, there was no reason to make a statement on this topic until today. When you want your statements buried you put them out Friday-Sunday. When you want them noticed by newswatchers, you put them out during the rest of the week. That’s messaging 101.

Second, you ham-fisted the first statement and are now drawing yet more attention to your own screwup. Again, messaging 101.

Third, you say that you were ill-informed and as I said in my first statement you didn’t need to talk then anyway, but you did and did so on a topic that you now claim you were ignorant on. Talking about shit you know nothing about in public… messaging 101.

Now you’re in damage control mode because you couldn’t keep your fat mouth shut when there was no reason for you to talk in the first place. Further, you spoke from professed ignorance and now you look like you’re either stupid or a liar. Congrats.

Again, questioning your CEO creds because apparently the basics of life elude you.

At least the folks over at RRA had the good sense to shut the fuck up until they knew what was going on. Not that it’s going to help much with the torch and pitchfork crowd, but hey, at least they didn’t make the situation worse the way you did.

I’m sorry. You misunderstood me. Or maybe I wasn’t clear. I responded to a comment that referred to Reese as a CEO in over his head (inexperienced). My point was that he owns the company. Since the 70’s. He’s in charge and is completely aware of everything going on.

We need to watch the actions of SA & RRA and their lobbyists going forward, and see who does or doesn’t get fired.

This reminds me a bit of Billy Tauzin, former GOP House Rep. from Louisiana and currently Top lobbyist for PhRMA, a corp. pharma group. Remember when the Clintons were first elected and HillaryCare was almost pass into law. The pharma and insurance lobbies ran Harry and Louise TV ads that successfully torpedoed HillaryCare.

Fast-forward to ObamaCare and Billy T. told his corp. sponsors that “we have to get onboard and help build the menu of options, or else we will be ON the menu.” And that is how we got stuck with the ACA.

My guess is that there is something really rotten with many of these heads of lobbying groups. Perhaps it is as simple as fomenting big legislative changes, for the purpose of skimming some of the big changes in money flow.

This smells like damage control to me. If either of them want my business in the future, they have their work truly cut out for them! We have enough to deal with responding to attacks from the anti-gun jerks like Bloombergs bunch, without being stabbed in the back by our “friends.”

Both of the CYA statements are just that. I personally can’t boycott Springfield or Rock River, as I am not in the market for products they produce. I am, however, the go to “gun guy” for a bunch of friends in Illinois who are in the process of buying CCW and home defense firearms. Care to take a guess as to which companies I will be steering them away from?

If this bill passes, it is just another nail in the coffin of the economy of the state and another reason for people to leave permanently.

At best this is malfeasance and a fireable offense. At worst this is an outright lie and spin as damage control. Either way stop insulting us and our intelligence. The only way the 2A is defended is by holding the line en masse. You have to understand this as a basic principle of the struggle for our rights. The left is comprised of organized and well funded idealogues who are incapable of reason. You give them an inch they will take you a mile. SA and RRA have been negligently shortsighted in this regard and particularly in light of all the recent victories gained nationally and locally defending the 2A. I’m an Illinoisan and will like many here be following this closely. It is my sincere hope the companies do everything in their power to defeat this bill in the senate and then, and only then, and based on their continued support for the rights of their constituents and customers will they be redeemed in my eyes. Don’t just pay lip service take action to make this right.

(hope TTAG doesn’t mind that link. I no longer frequent that site due to their habit of banning people who question site sponsors. They do have two useful threads discussing the issue, gingerly, as RRA is a paying “Industry Partner” who is being actively defended by admins. Typ. Internet drama, interspersed with good insight)

“most evidentiary codes defining hearsay adopt verbatim the rule as laid out in the Federal Rules of Evidence, which generally defines hearsay as an out-of-court statement introduced to prove the truth of the matter asserted.”

Your statement is indeed not hearsay because it is not being offered in court. If offered in court, it would be hearsay because you are stating what someone else said about a document (or what a document said).

The document, if obtained properly, would either be admissible hearsay or an exception to the hearsay rule. I can’t remember which because it would be admissible either way, and that’s what matters outside of a civpro exam.

You asked for a legal opinion and then used a technical legal term (sort of) incorrectly. I apologize. I couldn’t help myself. Your point that it isn’t unsubstantiated rumor is correct and understood.

I don’t believe them. Disband IFMA, fire the lobbyists, donate the money to SAF and GOA, fight this legislation tooth and nail with a Magpul fighting mag limits-esque effort, and threaten to (and proceed to) leave Illinois if it still passes. Anything less than that shows they are liars.

Too bad loyalty is not reciprocal with Springfield Armory. I have been a customer for many years. I got my first Springfield 1911 45 acp over 25 years ago. I have had a number of other Springfield firearms over the years. As a resident of Illinois I could not be more disappointed. I will never buy another firearm produced by you or Rock River for selling us out. You knew exactly what legislation was being presented at the state house since it had the potential to directly affect you. Flipping your position after the backlash is too little too late you bastards.

How can they claim they didn’t know the details of the bill? The ISRA was sending out daily emails with the details. The IFMA published that they would withdraw their opposition to the bill if they got the carve out. How could they not know? Springfield Armory needs to lay out some details about how they will play an active roll in the defeat of this bill and leave IL if those efforts fail.

“We take this situation very seriously and are looking into how this very unfortunate lapse in communication occurred.”

“Looking into it”, sure. If I were the CEO of a company facing this kind of PR fuckup, you can be damn sure I would know by the end of day one precisely how it happened. And if my people couldn’t explain it to me, somebody would get shit-canned.

Unless, of course, there really wasn’t an “unfortunate lapse in communication”, and I was just trying to bullshit people.

In the words of Ace Rothstein, “Listen, if you didn’t know you were being scammed you’re too fuckin’ dumb to keep this job, if you did know, you were in on it. Either way, YOU’RE OUT! Get out. Go on, let’s go.”

I find the “rouge lobbyist” story hard to believe. If I’m paying someone to represent me, I’m dang sure going to be standing over them and make sure that they correctly represent me. Also if this is such a great industry association, why are there only two members on record? Where are ArmaLite and DSA? Why can’t you find IFMA on the web?

I suspect that this was just another case of “Illinois politics” and they (SAI and RRA) got caught. They probably thought that no one would care or that everyone would be happy for them.

At this point, SAI and RRA can do all the back peddling they want. Due to either their incompetence or their collusion, SB-1657 passed.

I was at the NRA’s Annual Meeting and spoke with the SA and RRA sales’ reps in person. Neither could give me a straight answer. I udnerstand that the folks at the booth are just sales reps but there should have been an official word from the chain of command. It was nothing.

I own SA products and I use RRA at work as my patrol carbine. What SA and RRA did is inexcusable.

I’m running for the 2018 NRA Board of Directors and if I’m on the board. You can bet that I’d go after any Firearms Company that pulls a stunt like this.

Springfield Armory – Your statement is not enough. Your support was a big time screw up. In the corporate world, key officers “resign” with such a screw up. Any dealer pushing your goods better be cautious of including your brand in their display for sale or trade. Time to man up and put some officers off the payroll. Then, you might be able to survive as a firearm company. Also, your strategic plan needs to be evaluated and vetted by your board.

During my Air Force career I spent much of it in SAC. I never served while General Lemay was CINCSAC but I recall that he reportedly said to a Wing Commander and DCO who had incurred his wrath “Gentlemen I have neither the time nor the inclination to distinguish the incompetent from the merely unfortunate. The next time a B-52 from your base (I think it was K.I. Sawyer) crashes, be on it.”

Both companies were tied up in leadership roles within the lobbying group. Can’t hide from the facts. I would have more respect for owning up to it and saying that was the only way they saw to survive within Illinois. Still not honorable but the lies just make things worse. How can I believe product literature or feel safe under their warranty. Sad truly sad. Both companies should sell to new management and move from the state to hopefully keep these brands alive. With current management at the helm I can’t see buying from them in the future. I believe the same for all that can move. Vote with your feet and live in a state that respects your rights.

People getting shot in Chicago everyday and this is all gun grabbers can do to help their district instead of enforcing the current laws. Nothing more than a stupid press release for these clowns. Rauner will veto it anyway.