rooke30 wrote:I really don't get people's attachment to manga style art. Modern manga art especially, considering it's worse than manga art from the 80s and early 90s. Lack of detail and no sense of proportions are its main characteristics, and they're not 'positive' characteristics, either.

Opinion stated as fact does not make it so. Each person has their own likes and taste just because they do not conform to your tastes does not mean it to others who might find it quite endearing. For the most part I seem to favor Jack's tastes in artists he selects, just not in this one case. I see the talent and effort put into the work, but it is not visually pleasing to me, it is just that simple. Other painted and realistic artist have been pointed out and I love their work, just not Dennis' for this game.

Also you do have to remember here; Jack needs to make money or we do not get anymore of his awesome games, and if the majority of the people said they disliked this artwork, should Jack just ignore his customer base and keep a talented, reliable, and fast artist; but can not capture the interest of his base?

Thanks for the feedback, but every new post just confirms my conclusions in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=3816
This kind of art MIGHT have worked (with some heavy supervision to avoid the "creepy" feeling) if was just a card game and no VN part.
In future will likely make more card games, but not mixed with visual novel/story but if I do VN or RPG, a more manga style is a must (based on stats, not on people's opinions).

Pace675 wrote:
should Jack just ignore his customer base and keep a talented, reliable, and fast artist; but can not capture the interest of his base?

I didn't say he should.

However, as a person who's been reading manga for over 20 years, and have followed a few series which have lasted over 20 years (like Ah My Goddess and Hajime No Ippo,) and have noticed the steady decline in art standards over that time, that so many people treat modern manga art as some kind of 'thing of beauty' baffles me. Look at a page from the first issue of AMG, and look at a page from the last issue and the lack of detail is VERY noticeable.

Or you can just have a look at this illustration from some dude on 2chan

Regarding the 'opinion stated as fact' thing, it would be awesome if your policing of this rule would encompass everybody in this thread and not just those who don't agree with you. Applying it to your own posts would be cool, also. Or you could just accept that on internet forums, fact will usually be followed with a piece of evidence, and opinion is traditionally stated freely omitting the flag 'imo' because if you were to include this for every statement of opinion, you'll be flinging it into every post multiple times. In other words, forum posts aren't peer-reviewed essays, and should be treated as statements of opinion unless stated (or can be reasonably inferred) otherwise.

rooke30 wrote:
Regarding the 'opinion stated as fact' thing, it would be awesome if your policing of this rule would encompass everybody in this thread and not just those who don't agree with you. Applying it to your own posts would be cool, also. Or you could just accept that on internet forums, fact will usually be followed with a piece of evidence, and opinion is traditionally stated freely omitting the flag 'imo' because if you were to include this for every statement of opinion, you'll be flinging it into every post multiple times. In other words, forum posts aren't peer-reviewed essays, and should be treated as statements of opinion unless stated (or can be reasonably inferred) otherwise.

I know right? But I can only work with what is shown, correct? I really do hate making assumptions, we both know what that does?

Modern manga art especially, considering it's worse than manga art from the 80s and early 90s.

That is a definitive statement, leaves no room for debate.

I did clearly state my opinion:

Each person has their own likes and taste just because they do not conform to your tastes does not mean it to others who might find it quite endearing. For the most part I seem to favor Jack's tastes in artists he selects, just not in this one case. I see the talent and effort put into the work, but it is not visually pleasing to me, it is just that simple. Other painted and realistic artist have been pointed out and I love their work, just not Dennis' for this game.

I have to wholly disagree on that last statement, first and foremost that is a rare occurrence, for the most of my experience on forums people have a nasty tendency to present their opinion as facts, and only read what they care to see for rebuttal in lieu of what is actually written.

Ug peer-reviews really? please do not get me started on what I think about those XD.

Pace675 wrote:VNs do not HAVE to use magna style art to be successful, but the art MUST match the story you are trying to tell to be successful.

Opinion masquerading as fact, so you obviously didn't. IMO the art in Cinders didn't match the story they were trying to tell, but that's because art evokes different feelings in different people and the story evokes different feelings in different people. Cinders may be a 'darker' and 'grittier' story than Cinderella, but considering Cinderella is a happy-happy fairy tale, that isn't hard to accomplish. The story wasn't dark or gritty to me, but maybe it's because I've experienced stuff like 'Game of Thrones' which is far darker AND grittier. Very few things in life are absolutes, they're all relative (I.E they fit into a label only when comparing it to something else, and will switch labels depending on what you compare it with) so 'art matching story' tends to be a subjective thing. I found the art to evoke a creepier feeling in me than the story, for example, so there was a bit of a disconnect there. But it's still successful (I.E it made a profit ...) I found the VN enjoyable, the art good, I didn't find the art matched the story and yet I bought it and would gladly buy it again.

Magical Diary was a very ‘light’ and ‘enjoyable’ story to me, but people who’ve experienced traumatic events in the past were triggered by *person’s (I can’t remember his name ... dagnabbit) route. So for them, that route especially would have been fairly dark and emotional, and yet look at the art.

I didn't comment though because people have their own opinion on matters.

Pace675 wrote: for the most of my experience on forums people have a nasty tendency to present their opinion as facts, and only read what they care to see for rebuttal in lieu of what is actually written.