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Read that and tell me that's not derogatory. It's frankly worse because its a personal attack. I've never attacked Evan, Stan or Bon personally although I do question Evans methods and motives at times. Hard not to do with his his behaviors all over the Internet. Disagreeing with training methods is not personal. If they want to take their ball and go home fine, just don't start a debate on something and then whine when you can't make a point.

Ok Darrin what's your solution if the dog makes noise if he's being forced to pile??????????

And what's your solution if he's "frustrated"??? Randy

Try something you think would work and see what happens. If it works, continue, if not, then stop and do something else.

In FTP it seems like backing off the frequency of the re-enforcement will let the dog relax and stop anticipating the pressure. That's worked for me in the past with the couple of dogs I've seen it in.

With frustration it seems as though you have to deny the reward (retrieve) unless the dog is quiet. You also have to be careful with timing so you don't accidentally reward the barking. I've dealt with this a lot. Not so much with retrievers but with pets. The same basic principal applies, though you have to be more careful to avoid side affects.

With this particular situation I would be looking for ways to handle the issue AWAY from marks because I would be concerned with preserving style and momentum. With a pet dog we just count to three and give em a cookie after they shut up

Read that and tell me that's not derogatory. It's frankly worse because its a personal attack. I've never attacked Evan, Stan or Bon personally although I do question Evans methods and motives at times. Hard not to do with his his behaviors all over the Internet. Disagreeing with training methods is not personal. If they want to take their ball and go home fine, just don't start a debate on something and then whine when you can't make a point.

/Paul

The way I read that is they were not derogatory about RTF just some of the participants. Nothing was said over there that couldn't have been said here.. If you don't care for that forum, then why lurk there?

I've had a couple that were vocal, one was really bad. I did the same as you and asked for help from others that have actually faced and took this problem on themselves. I spoke to a man that helped me out but the problem never went completely away really all you can do is mask it. He told me to separate field work (marking) from yard work (drills or obedience). Making corrections in the field will just make it worse. All dogs are different just like us and you are just going to have to ask yourself if you want to take on this problem or punt. The sad thing is that most vocal dogs have great desire and are unbelievable markers. It can get to a point of no return. How old is the pup? Most of the clutch slips off the line when they are pups goes away. It's the singing at the line and on the way to the mark that is hard to get rid of. As soon as to can enforce HOLD making them hold a bumper in their mouth while marks are thrown in the field helps.

The way I read that is they were not derogatory about RTF just some of the participants. Nothing was said over there that couldn't have been said here.. If you don't care for that forum, then why lurk there?

I was sent the link. Funny they do the same there, yet denounce it here. Interesting.

As for the OP's question, first thought was Randy Bohn. I remember Road Kill had serious problems in this area a few years ago, I thought Randy helped him through it. Unfortunately the rest of the thread went off track for no reason, it's not the middle of winter when we have nothing to do so we get snarky, this should be the peak of trial season with hunting just around the corner.