I'm a Fellow at the Adam Smith Institute in London, a writer here and there on this and that and strangely, one of the global experts on the metal scandium, one of the rare earths. An odd thing to be but someone does have to be such and in this flavour of our universe I am. I have written for The Times, Daily Telegraph, Express, Independent, City AM, Wall Street Journal, Philadelphia Inquirer and online for the ASI, IEA, Social Affairs Unit, Spectator, The Guardian, The Register and Techcentralstation. I've also ghosted pieces for several UK politicians in many of the UK papers, including the Daily Sport.

The Apple Boycott: People Are Spouting Nonsense about Chinese Manufacturing

We actually have an outcry therefore about a suicide rate which is under one tenth of the general suicide rate in the country under discussion. If people were being rational about this instead of spouting nonsense then this would be something that was praised, not vilified.

The second is that there have been two explosions at separate plants, both involving aluminium dust, which have killed several and injured many more. Dealing with aluminium dust (which, if very fine and dispersed through the air, can be explosive) is indeed something which we’ve known how to deal with for near a century now.

However, knowing how to deal with this or any other industrial danger does not, regrettably, mean that it is always dealt with. To judge whether safety really is ignored at Foxconn we would like to, well, why not, compare it with US workplace safety? For there are some 4,000 or so killed each year in American workplaces.

A preliminary total of 4,547 fatal work injuries were recorded in the United States in 2010, about the same as the final count of 4,551 fatal work injuries in 2009, according to results from the Census of Fatal Occupational Injuries (CFOI) program conducted by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. The rate of fatal work injury for U.S. workers in 2010 was 3.5 per 100,000 full-time equivalent (FTE) workers, the same as the final rate for 2009

3.5 per 100,000: we would expect, if the Foxconn factories were no more dangerous than the average American workplace, 35 workplace deaths a year among those 1 million workers. Yes, each of those deaths, each of those injuries, in those aluminium dust explosions is a tragedy. But if we were being realistic rather than spouting nonsense over such matters we would not be using evidence of three or four deaths as evidence of how Apple, Foxconn or even China are ignoring worker safety in pursuit of filthy lucre. At a very minimum we would be looking at the total workplace death rate rather than cherry picking one specific incident.

Over a quarter of Foxconn’s work force lives in company barracks and many workers earn less than $17 a day.

Let us take that $17 a day as being the actual number. Sure, neither you nor I would be interested in working for that (not even with a free dorm room thrown in) because we had the great good fortune to be born in rich countries, at a standard of living that surpasses any that any previous generation of human beings knew. However, those who were born in China the same year I was born in the UK were born into a massive famine caused by Mao’s communist idiocy.

The question is not whether $17 a day is a low wage or not: it’s low relative to what? For a start, working those 6 day weeks that comes out to an annual income of $6,000 a year. No, not great riches by our standards but in China it’s a pretty fair whack. It’s around and about the per capita GDP for the whole country for example and thus obviously and by definition higher than average wages. Which is why those 1 million people have voluntarily signed up to work for those wages, many of them travelling hundreds of miles to do so.

Further, wages in China have been growing strongly recently. Since the late 1990s they have been growing at 14% per year (yes, after inflation is accounted for) and accelerating in the last couple of years. With compounding this means that manufacturing wages in China have risen four times since the turn of the century. The cause of this? Those vast factories built by the likes of Foxconn, the huge numbers of electronic toys and shiny gewgaws that we buy as they pour out of them.

It is precisely because Apple manufactures in China that conditions for manufacturing workers in China are getting better. Better at a rate never before seen in human history. And if we were to be realistic about this, instead of spouting nonsense, then we would recognise this basic fact.

And it is that last which is the most important fact about it all. Far from a boycott of Apple products being the best way to better conditions at the manufacturing plants it is the purchase of products from such plants which is, as it has been for the past few decades, making China a richer and better place.

Boycotting Apple for better Foxconn wages and conditions is like having sex for virginity. Entirely counter-productive and exactly the wrong thing to be doing.

Update: You might like this graphic representation of the argument about the Apple boycott.

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For all the do good-ers and feel good-ers out there Apple should import all the parts to build 1000 of each of their products to their american repair facility pay American engineers American wages to build them… put a special sticker on the product and on the box and increase the cost to reflect the increase in costs. It would probably double the cost of each of their products selling price but if people want American made… these people can pony up the extra cash and buy the special “American Made” edition. Apple then can announce the results of this division and combat this type of PR with you can have that you just cant have it for the same price…. It is my guess Apple would be sending most of the parts back to china after this social experiment is a publicly promoted failure…

Perhaps because they pay people what the job is worth instead of inflated wages ?

Yes, I said it. American workers became spoiled to the extreme as was once typified in the 1970′s song “Take This Job and Shove It, I Ain’t Working Here No More.”

Well, looks like the business owners did that very thing. The economic reality of wages vs. production has driven business owners to find a profitable solution.

When worker greed supplants job sensibility then you have today’s manufacturing situation. When enough workers sing the aforementioned song you end up with closed factories and high unemployment rates.

Also, ruthless executive greed has a huge part in this as well. All workers need be treated with decency and empowered accordingly. Look at Hundai’s employee dedication; they have never laid off an American employee.

Dr. Deming in the 1950′s went to Detroit to share his thoughts on manufacturing production business models. The American unions and executives… they both threw him out. He then went to Japan whereby a little known company called Toyota adopted his methods.

The rest, as they say, is history.

Most all highly successful Asian companies have adopted Toyota’s business model for executive and worker alike.

GM had to be bailed out using our USA tax money so that the executives and unions could continue raping the American people. Hey, did you know that most all of the American made Chevrolet is really made outside of America?!

The Toyota’s, Honda’s, Hundai’s, et. al., are putting food on American tables, employing American people and making quality products. Detroit is a total slum and none of the aforementioned needed a taxpayer bailout.

China’s manufacturing capabilities will collapse unless they take care to produce quality. The Chinese value volume and not quality; a fundamental difference in culture. As they continue to embrace Capitalism more and reduce the Socialist business models we might see production of quality goods.

The days of post WWII industrial greed and union labor strikes must end. If we, USA, are to ever regain industrial prominence, then we must get a hold on the reality of…

This response makes me think you work for the central Communist governments mis-information branch. They frequently leave posts on sites like these to throw the sent off their trail and never enter into a logical discussion, just insults and conjecture. No experience.

Not really sure how you apply your logic to executives, sales, marketing, tech support or other departments in businesses in relation to increasing revenue. Not a condescending question I would just like to know.

On the other note, everyone knows that GM was brought to its knees by its contracts to its unions pensions and benefits, but it would be hard to convince Americans that a company like GM needed to go bankrupt, it was ‘the’ American company, both in employment and in vision. I’m young enough to have not seen its heydays, but that quality of taking care of your workers has a more profound meaning than what Apple is doing currently. Sure, there is innovation in a lot of facets of its business, but when most of their employees can’t afford your product, why the hell are you making it? And if your not employing 1/10th of the employees of other companies of equivalent market cap, why are you doing business? What drives a company like Apple, other than stock price? Hell, I’m planning on selling my Apple stock soon, because its just grinding against my moral views. I guess I have an odd view of what should drive businesses.

I myself have a lot of apple products, but I don’t see myself buying more as I see other options around, and I see their business vision driven by immense and unnecessary consumption on our parts.

“when most of their employees can’t afford your product, why the hell are you making it? ”

Oh dear, I guess that is Boeing, Airbus gone, ship building companies, makers of luxuary cars etc. Or perhaps employees being able to afford the product they make is not actually a good determinant of whether that product should be made.

okay dummy, they inflate their retail price so much so they don’t know what to do with 90 Billion Dollars in Cash from profits, that’s just cash, that’s not the whole of their capital. 1,000,000,000 = 1 Billion 90,000,000,000 that’s a lot of money, they could lower their costs, make a 50% gross margin profit (instead of a 900% gross margin profit) and still do great things , help our economy, and treat people humane .

I don’t think that boycotting anything is worth but it is worth if you feel like at a personal level. Like I boycotted Bank of America when I first heard that robo-signing scandal last year and I closed my checking account to show my anger. I also boycotted t-mobile by choosing to move to other operator when they decided to sleep with ATT. Did it work? God knows!! but personally speaking I was so happy when BofA stock tanked from $15 to $5 and ATT lost $4 billion in breakup fee.

The essense of the story is—do what your heart says, if you feel like boycotting then please do it and not listen to an article from forbes which might have been paid by apple.

My only question is: Why doesn’t apple lower the cost of their products if they are able to make it so cheap in China? Or why don’t they pass this cash to those who work for them? Apple should be thankful to Chinese workers but I bet they don’t. They laugh at them and call them dirty workers and workers from third-world countries even though they are the one who makes them so profitable. God Bless Apples and I hope they don’t get rotten.

All these stories are being done by FUDsters trying to spew discontent over Apple’s success. Any smartphone, tablet or device designed by any other company in the world is manufactured at Foxconn, so if consumers are being urged to boycott Apple, then they might as well boycott all companies that sell those electronic devices.

Singling out Apple is indeed something being brought about by stock manipulators in order to drive down Apple’s company value. Fortunately, most Americans won’t stop buying Apple products so these iHaters that foster ill will against Apple will not be listened to. Eff the iHaters. China will take care of its own workers without the arrogant American’s help. Bill Gates is probably behind this whole boycotting movement.

For arguments sake it is too simple a definition to just look at accident rates or suicide rates or specific wage for the industry. The political\social\governmental environment is really at work here.

It is much better to look at the broader clearer reason why sweatshop labor is a dangerous investment for American companies.

The position of China today is a result of Communist Party Policy over the Chinese Government and the Governments control over the Chinese people.

You gotta keep them separated.

1. The Communist Party 2. The Chinese Government 3. The Chinese people

These are 3 separate things with the Party on Top and the People on the bottom. They are NOT co-equal entities in practice.

Low wages are a way for the Communist Party to exploit an unlimited resource without getting their hands dirty, by way of their control over the Chinese Government and then ultimately provide the worker with a sense of how evil Foreigners are by stating, “They could pay you more, but they won’t. See how bad the Forigners are?” Also it allows them to show how evil the Chinese Government is. Wait…How bad the Chinese Government is? How does that make sense? According to Communist theory it does, remember they are seeking a workers paradise without a Government, hence you see the point. The Government is a transtional state actor not the end game. The Party does not celebrate high wages, it abhorrs them. Wages are low for political\economic control and Communist Culture reasons, not 100% profit and economic reasons. One should be willing to “eat bitterness” for the cause of the revolution, not becasuse you want to get rich.

Although as you might guess this “Culture” may just be a cunning attempt to “Mask” the desire for profits behind a cause. Remember the importance of Face. Masking ones intent can make unattainable outcomes possible, this is taught by The Communist Party.

Wages will never rise as long as this culture pervades. Even if your labor is worth more to society, remember the Party can force the Government pay you a nominal wage of their choosing.

Example: Farming is equivalent to Brain Surgery.

Farmers are good becasue they “eat bitterness”, Brain Surgeons are bad because they only love money, unless they do it for the same wage as a farmer. Call it maximizing the cultural value of abhorring wage earners and promoting your place in society is greater than any wage. Its a Communist Cultural ideal that is the operating ethos.

As you might imagine earning money from large Communist Party business deals and or bribes covertly is readily available to Party Members and some limited number of Chinese Government Officials. This is how they bridge the gap between the humble wages they report that they earn and the massive wealth they accumulate and hide.

This is not the case for the Chinese people, so they in fact only get the low wage and try various other things to make ends meet. They have no bribe options other than to pay them to try to get the most basic of services. Bribe makers and Bribe takers as economic, political and social needs are not completely taken care of. Note that their are two markets here. One is the overt wage market, second is the covert wage market. The Party has access to both, the Chinese Government only has partial or little access to it, and the Chinese People have no access to it. This makes sense as all power is derived from The Communist Party and they seek maximization of profits from exploiting their power though bribes and such, so that there are little to none left for anyone else.

The Chinese people don’t work for wages as much as they work for the Party’s aims or Ideas which are the fuel for the Party’s covert real profits.

As a worker in China you get the ‘emotional satisfaction of doing a good job with little to no reward.’ See how humble you are and how greedy foreigners are who profit from your labor?

That aim may be overt or covert from the position of either the wage earner or from the Government. The workers don’t need to be aware of it, or directed at all. Its how the game plays itself out from the position of the players.

This is not to say that workers don’t get paid, but it is in a sense Kabuki Theater where workers learn not to trust their Foxconn masters and gain cultural honor. This is the kicker.

The aims of the government guided by the Party are greater than the value of all the wages in this case..its to keep the Unemployment Rate down which is the responsibility of the Government, not The Party. So if unemployment is high, The Party points to the Government and states that they have not done a good job following Communist Ideals.

Lastly the Party ultimately exploits the Chinese people. For it gives Tax Breaks, slave labor wages, unsafe working conditions which must be that way. That’s all part of the Communist stages we need to go through to get to revolution, right? After all if there is slave labor they will blame the Chinese Government and foreigners. The Party will move to punish the Government and uphold the virtues of the Party.

Kabuki Communism is the real reason, American firms must stay away from economic exploits under the manipulation of The Communist Party.

What total nonsense and pseudo-intellectual pap. It is such total BS that makes us Americans think we are so superior to the rest of the world. We should worry about out own problems, like a dysfunctional government, declining education, declining home prices, etc. etc. etc. You show a total lack of understanding about the current situation in China.

Again there is a American Capitalism as we practice it in the west, this aligns with the recent article about Capitalism and the Bible. American Capitalism should not be fuel for Kabuki Communism for they are playing into an end game that seals judgement upon America.

You don’t need to be Christian or Jew, but one must learn how we practice our artform of Capitalism. It is our, American Capitalism, it is unique and not like any other form in its totality.

It is the polar opposite of State Capitalism or Socialist Capitalism as practiced previously in the Nazi held economies and today China.

There are reasons to NOT exploit cost benefits. Let us return to those discussions before we get to far ahead in enslaving a people to their own doom.

Mainly ourselves and they way we practice American Capitalism.

Is being an abolishonist now out of style? Why would one who so fervently believe that slavery is so evil..all of a sudden forget? For profits?

To Quote the article below:

“Capitalism makes possible entrepreneurship, which is the realization of an idea birthed in human creativity. Whereas statism demands that citizens think small and bow to a top-down conformity, capitalism, as has been practiced in the U.S., maximizes human potential. It provides a home for aspiration, referred to in the Bible as “the spirit of life.”

This is a value we hold, not a one time feeling that comes and passes.

I only have 10 years living in China and experienced the nature\structure in their business\ political world with Communist Party leadership.

It is among the most rare experiences in the world. Do you think they just let anyone live among them?

Where is your experience? Mine was learned on the ground in China, I am fluent, are you?

Your response makes me think you work for the central Communist governments mis-information branch. They frequently leave posts on sites like these to throw the sent off their trail and never enter into a logical discussion, just insults and conjecture. No experience.

Sorry to disappoint you but I am a US citizen that has been in China for 12 years, teaches here, and who is married to a Chinese woman. Further, I was an Asian Studies major in college studying Asian political systems, Chinese history, Japanese history and Japanese literature so I have an excellent perspective on what is going on in China and find your ridiculous rants to be offensive and typical of the racism found in the US dialogue. Trying to compare China to Naziism is the most reprehensible of all. The advancement of Chinese worker incomes in just the past 10 years is nothing short of astounding, let alone the last 20 or 30 years. Further, there is a very strong entrepreneurial spirit here that is driving the development of new small, medium and large businesses like never before. The result has been the lifting of 100′s of millions of people from poverty, and significant financial support to many poor rural areas in the form of money sent home by these factory workers. Yet these same workers that you and others claim to be “slave labor” still have one of the highest savings rates in the world, after sending money home, and more job mobility than any generation in Chinese history. Your over simplistic and heavy handed accusations cloud your perspective of what is really going on in China. Is there corruption in China? No question. Is the Party self-serving? You bet. But to try to claim that this is the only thing driving the country, and then apply a ridiculous religious context to it, is nothing short of arrogance and ignorance.

For a nation that hates the words “Communism” and “Communist,” America’s indifference to U.S. corporations transferring technology, outsourcing jobs, exploiting slave labor, and helping to build an economy controlled by an authoritarian explicitly Communist regime is alarming, to say the least.

Whoopie Goldberg on the View says that “On paper, Communism looks good, but doesn’t work in real life,” and Fox News vilifies her as having Communist views. But not a word about American businessmen who partner with actual card-carrying Communist party leaders in China and enable them to build up their engineering, scientific, and military capacities.

This goes beyond iPhones, obviously. But a nation that allows a Communist dictatorship of 1.3 billion people, with geo-political interests in direct conflict with its own, to take over the manufacture of electronic components used in government computers and military armaments, and de-industrialize its technical and manufacturing base, is not long for this world.

Yeah, boycotting iPhones may be silly. But, maybe, just maybe, we as a nation, should be boycotting far more.

Tim Worstall is using cliche logical fallacies to deceive the readers and support his arguments.

He compares an annual suicide rate of 22 per 100k people to the number of people who COMMITTED SUICIDE AT THE PLANT. We’re talking about 18 people who went to work and committed suicide.

Those are the only ones that were reported on, there’s no mention of the total number of people who worked at Foxconn who committed suicide. Did he include the figures of the people who committed suicide at home, or elsewhere? Nope.

He’s comparing apples to oranges. You can’t compare the number of people who committed suicide at their place of work, to the number of people who committed suicide everywhere and have a fair comparison. He is disingenuously distorting the statistics to deceive people.

He does the same thing about workplace injury. He’s comparing 2 explosions, two events, to an annual rate. What about the other people who got injured or killed from other accidents throughout their factories? We don’t know, but Worstall is against distorting the arguments to deceive us. Either he is stupid and doesn’t realize when he’s comparing two different sets of numbers, or he is evil and trying to stop a boycott because he has Apple shares.

The point is that Apple is squeezing as much money as they can from the 500k workers of Foxconn, and leaving them in such horrible working conditions that they want to commit suicide at their place of work because they are in such despair.

And Worstall appears to be saying “That’s okay, because they’re poor. That’s what happens to poor people.” Simply evil.

Yet another clueless individual who doesn’t understand the real issues and facts. Foxconn workers are housed at the factories so they live AND work there. Further, the reality is that the suicide rate of high school students is HIGHER than that of the Foxconn factory which has 400,000 workers. So lets condemn the US education system by your logic. And your last statement shows your true ignorance. Foxconn’s factories are modern facilities by OUR standards. These workers are working voluntarily to better their lives and are making more money than their families back in their rural homes. In fact, they not only save for themselves but send money home to support their families. Yes, that is so so evil. Try to get yourself a good education before you start condemning others with falsehoods.

I only have 10 years living in China and experienced the nature\structure in their business\ political world with Communist Party leadership.

It is among the most rare experiences in the world. Do you think they just let anyone live among them?

Where is your experience? Mine was learned on the ground in China, I am fluent, are you?

Your response makes me think you work for the central Communist governments mis-information branch. They frequently leave posts on sites like these to throw the sent off their trail and never enter into a logical discussion, just insults and conjecture. No experience.

@freerange: “Foxconn workers are housed at the factories so they live AND work there.”

Wrong! No one lives in the factory. One third of Foxconn employees live in company owned houses in campuses (the factories reside on the same campuses). All suicides which have been reported have been committeded in the houses (called dormitories) where employees live.

The reason for suicides is actually unknown, but here is one example: “Foxconn Worker Commits Suicide for Boyfriend’s Breakup”, http://micgadget.com/?s=suicide

You, as a China expert know, that the employees come from the poor rural areas and often the parents force the kids to work in factories. The kids are hundreads of miles from the home alone and the first time in their lives. No wonder they feel stressed and might commited a suicide for various reasons.

After the suicides the family usally requires compensation and to my understanding they also get it. This may sound harsh but the family actually benefits from the death of their children.

And as a China epxpert you know that no matter who is in power, the emperor, the communists or the capitalists or the parents in case of family, the weakest members on the food chain have always been ruthlessly exploited in China. You do know that many Chinese parents still sell their underaged daughters as prostitutes?

Is there no evil boss in America? Do our factories never blow up? Do workers in US never pull double-shifts?

I would LOVE to have David Barboza and the boycott lot he’s inspired, to stay at my unheated, unplumbed, ancestral home in China, then stay at a Foxconn dorm to see just how good it is.

Perhaps these people who self-righteousely point finger will acquire a little sympathy for the 900 million Chinese who live in 3rd world poverty. 10,000 pople line up in front of Foxconn’s Shenzhen factory every morning for interview, not because they are masochists, but they see a better life with a good company that pays above industry average.

Here are few facts that NYT has ignored to make the red-wash stick:

- The sensational accusation is based on questionable sources, such as disgruntled employees and US government founded dissident group like China Labor Watch (their funding thru the NED is public information.)

- Suicide is caused by mental illness, not harsh working condition; they are not held against their will, as plenty of people will gladly replace them. Fact is suicide rate at Foxconn is below China’s national average, and fraction of suicide rate on US college campus.

- Those who are not familiar with China’s education system makes up this silly “child labor” indictment. China only has 9 years of compulsary education, so by the time students are 12-13, those who do not pursue higher education are ready for apprenticeship.

So drink NYT Cool-Aid and boycott. All Apple has to do is have a sale, y’all be rushing the stores like those people who want to work for Foxconn.

Where is your experience? Mine was learned on the ground in China, I am fluent, are you?

Your response makes me think you work for the central Communist governments mis-information branch. They frequently leave posts on sites like these to throw the sent off their trail and never enter into a logical discussion, just insults and conjecture. No experience.

I am astonished to find a news media article supporting China in a Western corporation. I’m also baffled by the mystery of how this opinion column ever got past the editors. Surely the writer must know that only China-bashing propaganda is allowed in Western news media corporations. His contract with the corporation must be very solid to allow him to get away with actually saying something rational and objective about China and the Chinese, but he must be aware that he is risking that contract by stating his mind on the subject. Only propaganda against China is permitted in the Western news media. Factual, impartial reporting about the country is verboten. I hope the writer thinks the lose of his job was worth the exercise of his freedom of speech.

Your response makes me think you work for the central Communist governments mis-information branch. They frequently leave posts on sites like these to throw the sent off their trail and never enter into a logical discussion, just insults and conjecture. No experience.

Let’s totally put aside all the suicide talk and exploitation issues and ask the question, “Mr. Worstall, why do you hate Americans?” because that is the real story here. Are we at a point now that Forbes has become so anti- American and so pro unfettered capitalism that it is cheering companies decisions to move jobs overseas to maximize profits. The article tries to justify its point of view by quoting an econ 101 lesson that says if you can’t make it in retali you just need to make a vertical move into IT or some such rubbish. “If you don’t have a job, blame yourself.” Absurd talk by people that are so terribly out of touch.

I am sorry that a few Chinese folks are unhappy enough at the Apple plants in China that they kill themselves, I really am. But I am a lot more sorry that talented hard working Americans have lost their jobs and are barely able to survive taking their own lives at a rate that I would bet makes the suicide rate at Foxconn (is there a more appropriate name for a business that rapes American jobs imaginable.) pales in comparison to the suicide rate of hard working Americans that have lost their jobs due to business leaders that buy into the dreck your magazine publishes on a weekly basis. I used to like Forbes a long long time ago when it was Malcom’s magazine, but the editorial sway has finally denigrated to the point that the real question I must ask is “Steven Forbes Jr., why do you hate Americans?”

Hmmm, I worked in the steel mills in the US for two years. Guess what. I was exposed to toxic chemicals and heavy metals. This is not to diminish the problems at some facilities in China in the past. But Apple has shown real concern and has aggressively implemented plans and programs to avoid and resolve such problems at factories they neither own or operate. what have you done lately?

this is just another republican slant on outsourcing. if this guy had balls then he would suggest that while he believes the U.S. is here to prop up the economies of the poor countries, he would also suggest that the delta in wages apple and dell pay these poor folks in China should come back to the U.S. so we can feed our own too! These jobs can be here and should be here in the U.S. Boycott all these companies, dell, apple, hp, etc.

Thank you for one of the first well reasoned articles about the Foxconn issue in China. Reporters who actually know much better often play on China’s large size to hype all kinds of stories without putting the statistics into relative per capita or cultural terms.

By the way China’s suicide rate of 22 per 100,000 is a bit lower than those of Japan and Korea and a bit higher than Taiwan’s, where Foxconn in headquartered. All these numbers should be discounted somewhat to account for the fact that a good % of suicides are among the unemployed, but still your argument stands.

I wonder if all the service providers of the NYT in China follow the NYT standards and local labor law in all instances?

The suIcides were those who jumped off Foxconn buildings. They do NOT include suicides away from Foxconn building. No one knows how many more Foxconn workers committed suicide away from the factory. Your statistics are faullty.

Under capitalism the conditions of China would be world wide if up to those who preach the wonders of capitalism. It is a unhuman economic system where those who provide the capital try as best they can to get the cheapest, most controlled workers possible. Dictatorships and Capitalism go hand in hand as proved in China.

No sir , you miss the point. It’s not that you are uncaring, it’s that you lack the intelligence and forethought to imagine the world we are creating. So you say child slavery and indentured servitude is a part of the poor world ? Really? Tell us how republicans are trying to destroy labor laws so we can enjoy exactly the same kind of production inspiring poverty here. What you take us for sir is a pack of morons where you whine about the need for slaves because you work in finance. Eat cake Marie for it shall be your last. Apple is target, it deserves targeting. Every American company that builds outside the US should have to maintain the same safety standards, working conditions and treatment of workers that is kept in this country. If they refuse, then they should lose the right to sell in America , period.

The only underage workers found at Foxconn plants, albeit only a handful, where in fact carrying forged documents so that they could get jobs.

Try reading his article again as you obviously didn’t, or lack the mental capacity to truly understand it – these workers are not slaves, they make a better than prevailing wage, save money on their own as well as send money home to support their extended families who are in poverty. China is still a country of over 800 million peasant farmers and these workers are actually improving their lives and are happy to have these jobs. This is not the definition of slavery.

16 hour days 6 and 7 day weeks, 24 in a single room for 31 cents an hour and you dont consider that slavery? NO! YOU READ THE ARTICLE AGAIN SIR! I HAVE READ 50 ARTICLES ON THIS FROM “CREDIBLE” NEWS SOURCES AND NOT SOME RANT BY SOME OVERPAID FAT FINANCIAL ADVISER! Dont tell me about this is “improving” their lives you insensitive, sociopathic apologist! My god, where do you get these fantasies! Telling us about the rest of the starving population doesn’t excuse for a second the inhumane and barbaric treatment. Only an a backwards American could placate themselves with the knowledge a starving person is happy not to starve so they “enjoy slavery” ! You disgust me.

freerange, This response makes me think you work for the central Communist governments mis-information branch. They frequently leave posts on sites like these to throw the sent off their trail and never enter into a logical discussion, just insults and conjecture. No experience.

You really need to get back on your meds. Meanwhile, it might be a good idea to actually travel to China to see what is really going on for yourself rather than reading articles by people who have no clue about China in its entirety – about it’s people, culture, history and current economic conditions – rather than relying on limited anecdotal stories that lack balance and perspective.

As an American living and teaching in China, I applaud Tim Worstall for this well thought out piece on the reality of labor in China. Many of the comments posted above to this piece are based on two things – ignorance and arrogance. Ignorance of what goes on in the rest of the world, and how people in developing companies live and get ahead. Classic American arrogance in that we know better than anyone else what is good for people living outside our own country. It is shameful that there is such a lack of understanding of what makes the whole world work and is indicative of some of the moronic positions in the political debates of the day. Unfortunately most American have not had the opportunity to work in our own factories so have no clue what it is like to work in a production environment. To earn money for college I worked STANDING ALL DAY at a Ford engine plant where we MANDATORY 7 day work weeks as they built inventory for a new model year – I had 2 days off an entire summer only because I called in sick one day, and they didn’t make us work on the 4th of July. I also worked two years in the Cleveland steel plants standing on top of coke plant ovens breathing toxic gases and other pollutants. The tops of the ovens were outside so even in the summer’s beating sun I had to wear thermal underwear to insulate from the heat, and wooden clogs on the bottom of my work boots to keep from burning the bottoms of my feet. I had to carefully watch which way the wind was blowing when I pulled the lids off the ovens to be sure that it was blowing to my back so that the toxic gasses would be blowing away from me when they ignited hitting the oxygenated outside air. I wore a screen shield over my face just in case they blew back at me to proven serious burns. But guess what – I was more than happy to have those jobs because I was able to save money and improve my life, exactly what Chinese workers are doing, in far better conditions than I worked in. Get over yourselves.

You are a liar freerange and worked as an adult, not a child, in an American plant protected by unions that paid you overtime for the two months you worked by choice! You lived in a place that wasn’t a room with 24 other people in, you had you family and privacy and weren’t under the threat of being imprisoned for 12 years fo even discussing a union. Where if you complained you were beaten The idea that you would attempt to justify this with you made up stories of faux suffering is revolting! YOU HAD A SUMMER JOB YOU WENT TO MAKE MONEY IN CONDITIONS THAT WERE 100X BETTER THAN THESE WORKERS! THIS IS THEIR LIVES!

Classic American arrogance and ignorance is what you represent , not the people with a disgust for slavery. Stay in China with the other slave masters working for Foxconn. I’ve worked in other countries and your kind always tries to rationalize inequality and slavery and is a disgusting part of the American psyche

Do not worry about darlieb. FREERANGE is either a Chinese or most probably, a memeber of the taskforce paid by the Chinese government to follow and blog on important websites. Such post are than published in China as translation of US Media articles !!!

freerange,, This response makes me think you work for the central Communist governments mis-information branch. They frequently leave posts on sites like these to throw the sent off their trail and never enter into a logical discussion, just insults and conjecture. No experience.

LOL – typical of those that have probably never even been outside the US – that they think that any view other than their own is somehow driven by some malicious force rather than actual experience and the facts.

This is a stupid boycott. The main reason is that if they could mfg their products in the US, the retail price would go up probably at least $100 to $200 more otherwise it bites into their profit margin. I am all in favor of bringing jobs back to the US, but until they can figure out a less expensive way to mfg these things, they have to be competitive with the others and everyone else makes similar products in the same factories, which means you might as well boycott all companies and prepare to pay more money for the same products. At least Apple has been hiring higher paid jobs, which some of the others have been laying off and not hiring people back. There needs to be more stringent requirements for laying people off in the first place and not using people as pawns for just increasing profit margin because the shareholders want to make more money and they don’t want to fire the CEO for wasting money on things like expensive traveling, parties and things that aren’t necessary. Sime of these companies pay big name musical artists tons of money to perform at a Christmas party or some offer marketing function. These CEOs should be taking less compensation and asking other members of upper management to take less money first.

I find your article disturbing and sad. While you have some points that are rooted in the truth of the culture in China, I don’t see how this justifies ignoring clear problems workers are facing. Americans have fought these same battles and won many of them, earning ourselves many rights as workers that those in our supply chains do not have. I see Slavery as alive and well and we feel pretty good about it because we left our slaves in their home countries and just blame their circumstances on their own culture and government, when, in fact, the US citizens and our desire for economic domination are a large part of what create their sad situations.

Just because someone makes an average or higher than average wage compared to their countrymen does not mean that it is a LIVING WAGE. I have visited with people who work in some of the factories that make our products. While they must take the best jobs they can find, that does not mean that these are good jobs. They live in desperate poverty. They only eat some of the days of the week. They have abortions in order to not be fired from their jobs for needing leave. And, they want us to know the price they pay in making the products we use.

You talk repeatedly about the “lay intellectual” and how little we know about economics. While I recognize that I don’t have this background knowledge, there is something more important those who are concerned about Apple’s supply chain DO understand, which is HUMANITY. We care that people are hurting making the products we know are a luxury. You say that our greed for more and more electronics gives them the jobs they need. Fine. But, companies earn enough to pay a living wage to their workers and still make money. However, they take advantage of the fact that there is a culture of low pay and governments that are more concerned about attracting these companies, largely for the benefit of the wealthy, and don’t pay what they know is right and fair in order to maximize profits.

There is another way. People who boycott Apple may not have the answer, but at least they are doing something instead of justifying modern day Slavery with economic jargon.

I just don’t think the logic of your arguments pans out when you factor in what is possible rather than just what is. When you factor in our humanity. Dream of the world that you would want for your child were you in the Chinese lower class. Think of what we could have for the people of this world and dream outside of that box of economic realities to see that there could be something better.

I have worked in American manufacturing for 35 years. It is plain and simple. Companies take their products out of the US to increase profit by avoiding our good wages, humane work rules and our environmental laws. This worked as long as the middle class was growing, I made more money 10 years ago in real wages. We have half the people working in our plant than we did 10 years ago. Our product has been replaced by a chinese copy. They didn’t move on to a better life. This is a small town, they are still here. Soon, I fear that I won’t have the money to buy cheap imports. Then what?

“there is something more important those who are concerned about Apple’s supply chain DO understand, which is HUMANITY.”

Yes. Which is precisely the point. Morality is the way you would like the world to work; economics is an attempt to explain the way reality functions. There is very little connection between the two – regardless of your take on either morality and economics. And there is nothing wrong with your professed morality. As long as you don’t confuse it with economics.

So you are entirely free to boycott Apple, Dell, HP – you can buy computers manufactured in the USA (they’ll contain lots of Chinese parts but, hey, as long as you feel that you’ve made an effort.) You can buy locally produced foods. You could eat nothing bar Ben&Jerry’s (but note they’re now owned by Unilever.) Just don’t think that by so doing, you are going to improve wages and conditions in China. Frankly, you’re not going to shift wages and conditions in the USA enough to make the slightest different. Because economics is driving both of those not your personal moral choices.

The rate of suicides in Foxconn workers may be higher than the national (Chinese) average – but nobody complaining about Tim’s quoted rate has bothered to link to any alternative statistics. Even if it is, this may actually be nothing to do with Foxconn. The current Chinese labour model means moving from the country to work in the cities. Just as it did in the UK in the Industrial Revolution and, to a lesser extent, in the US in the C20. If your culture is intensely family-based, this is going to cause problems. How much should a corporation be allowed to interfere in its workers’ lives? Enough to stop them committing suicide when they are off company site? That’s not a pleasant thought.

Foxconn workers may be exposed to hazardous chemicals – folks, that’s what happens in many, if not most, manufacturing plants. I’m sorry, but if you had actually worked making or repairing computers, you’ll have come across Ferric Chloride and plenty of other nasties.

“Just because someone makes an average or higher than average wage compared to their countrymen does not mean that it is a LIVING WAGE.”

It certainly doesn’t mean it would be a living wage in the USA (or the UK) but there are few countries where the average wage is a starvation one. Hell, there are few countries where the average income is a starvation one (those of us lucky enough to be being paid tending to be somewhat better off than those of us not.) Taking the latter, you’ve got North Korea, certainly, some bits of Africa (it moves around). But not the PRC – not a Foxconn and not even in the still-farming hinterlands (which, before you jump on ‘average’ does not mean that there aren’t people starving in China. It’s a huge country with over a billion people. But I’ll bet you few, if any, of them work for Foxconn.)

“The rate of suicides in Foxconn workers may be higher than the national (Chinese) average – but nobody complaining about Tim’s quoted rate has bothered to link to any alternative statistics”

This is the part that seems to slip from peoples grasp, their aren’t any , so Tims numbers are fraudulent. You missed the graph with completely made up figures he put up. Humorous really.

“Foxconn workers may be exposed to hazardous chemicals – folks, that’s what happens in many, if not most, manufacturing plants.”

That is a lie as well. Here in the US there laws. Get over it.

“How much should a corporation be allowed to interfere in its workers’ lives? ”

Every American company that builds outside the US should have to maintain the same safety standards, working conditions and treatment of workers that is kept in this country. If they refuse, then they should lose the right to sell in America , period.

You seem to think your right to make a profit over rides the right to life for workers. Myself , if it were in my power I would have these on the books as crimes against humanity.

“This is the part that seems to slip from peoples grasp, their aren’t any , so Tims numbers are fraudulent. ”

If you have no access to any numbers, how do you know Tim’s numbers are wrong? And, no, I didn’t miss the graph. It was posted, here, after I commented.

“ “Foxconn workers may be exposed to hazardous chemicals – folks, that’s what happens in many, if not most, manufacturing plants.”

That is a lie as well. Here in the US there laws. Get over it.,”

And there we have the cry of somebody who has never working in a manufacturing environment. Can I give you a clue – it isn’t all the clean rooms you see in the Intel adverts. Hazards exist all over manufacturing – sharp things, heavy things, burning things, dangerous chemicals. Yes, there are legal restrictions and regulations but these are generally risk management rather than risk avoidance.

“Every American company that builds outside the US should have to maintain the same safety standards, working conditions and treatment of workers that is kept in this country. ”

Yet people were complaining that Foxcomm workers were committing suicides away from the plant – which may have nothing to do with Foxcomm. I ask again – how much control should your employer have over your private life?

But, there’s really no point, is there? We’re trying to have a rational discussion with “ true believers”.

Correction – the suicide rate at the Foxconn plant is actually LOWER than the national rate for China. And also happens to be lower than that for the US. Even more important, it is lower than that of high school students in the US.

Seriously, you need to do a better job of educating yourself on issues. Correction – the suicide rate at the Foxconn plant is actually LOWER than the national rate for China. And also happens to be lower than that for the US. Even more important, it is lower than that of high school students in the US. Check your facts before you condemn others.

In regard to Mr. Worstall’s piece on Apple’s troubles with Foxconn, does he have blood in his veins? The article is all too rational, all too adult. How can he be so nonchalant about a company that basically employs slave labor. It may make sense against the backdrop of Chinese society. But abuse is still abuse. We should not look the other way. I don’t feel good about the blood and agony that went into making my IPad.

“I don’t feel good about the blood and agony that went into making my IPad.”

Didn’t stop you buying it, though. So, in this case, the economic reality won out against your personal morality?

I’m sure I should be suggesting that you “ try harder next time” – I’m just not sure whether I’m suggesting you try to align your moral claims with what mere economists call “revealed preferences” (what you do rather than what you say – see any article from a fervent supporter disappointed in a politician’s actions after they’ve been elected) or whether you should try harder to stick to your professed morals. Which there is nothing wrong with – I’m not condemning them in any way. Golden Rule et al.

Well, you best get rid of most your store-bought clothing, shoes, packs, electronics, dry wall, paint, roofing, car parts, and may be open up your computer and start removing parts from China and there are many.

So it really, really bugs you that Apple was both the most proactive and among the very first corporations (since at least 2006) to take steps to improve the working conditions and welfare of workers in its supplier chain?

If you listen, you can find examples of destructive practices (failure to rotate laborers, use of a potent neurotoxin as a solvent when alcohol would be only slightly less efficient) that could be discontinued while only having a moderate effect on the bottom line.

Above all, we need transparency. It’s not unreasonable that we should know about where our consumer goods come from. If the reality is harsh, and we have to live with it, so be it.

It’s weird how people don’t understand that in China ANY job is a TREASURE…In a country with over a billion people, if there were not these jobs people would have little else to do but prey on each other…and you can see that sentiment very clearly…The problem I see occuring, because of this political “face” problem, (and I would include the US political admisinstration of today in that equation) is that China is going to be naturally inclined to try and expand to satisfy a burgeoning society….and the population here(I am in Jiangsu Province) is increasing rapidly..It is noticable that they are surpassing demands to me from a street level….There are a million shops…and they are all loaded with merchandise…and located in very new and expensive shopping malls and plazas all designed to look upper-scale…but they are lucky to sell maybe one or two items ..and when they do they are inclined to gouge that customer to sustain their jobs. ..So that drives the customers away….(Include the rest of the world in thoise markets)…So there is a deep desperation in all that occurs here….They save face amongst their own by showing foreignors less honor on their own turf these days…even though I agree with anyone that states US companies have provided the Chinese poeple with the best working conditions they have ever seen to this date..even the thousands of KFC’s…The US has brought the modern model…How can they not be grateful? Deep down, the ones who know the difference are…But there is also a very contrived elitism that undermines the value of work…Especially being cultivated in the youth….The idea of quick, easy money being the better choice…And of course that is all because of the foreignors prescence…Even though Chinese aristocracy has always been littered with such mercenaries…even during the opium wars.

The spouting of nonsense has a correlation with the voting into office of Barack Obama…

The same people that allowed a person: with unproven citizenship, documented anti-American history (ever wonder why most all of Obama’s papers are censored?), says he is black but is really of mixed race, to become the “leader of the free world” are the same people spouting rhetorical nonsense.

There seems to be an ever growing level of irresponsible commentaries leading to equally irresponsible decisions.

I guess we are witness to what happens when children (computer generation) are given loaded weapons (technology) sans the necessary management/responsibility tools therein.

Responsibility, sense of community, social/moral values… perhaps they will return one day.

Enron? Junk bonds? Student SAT fraud?

The collateral damages were great, accountability less than great, payoffs great, long term responsibility none existent. From a profit/risk perspective, the unfortunate and very sad truth is that, in today’s society… crime does pay!

Any such articles paid by Apple and Foxconn can not hide the fact that Apple is outsourcing to China nearly all it manufacturing, to factories where workers are paid $ 0.50 hour and minimal social benefit, plus disastrous working conditions

And when in Guangdong the salaries reached $ 0.75, Foxconn, with the blessing of the Chinese Government, is on the way to transfer production to the poor Northern province (near Harbin), where the salary is less than $ 0.50

The false argument that the lower productivity justifies such conditions is a plain lie, as to assemble electronic devices in large serial production does not need specialized workers, so that productivity on the outside is 50% of the US

And the also false justification that the living costs are lower in China compensate, they are on the best 30% for food and bare essential, 80% for anything else

Fact is: The FOXCONN workforce, composed largely from people flocking in from even poorer regions, lives mostly 4 in a rented room trying to eat little so to be able send $ 10 -15 monthly to their families home.

The touted wealth of China is money attained by such social conditions, which being used to inundate the world with cheap products, is one of the main causes of the decreasing life standard in the industrial world

Therefore, BOYCOTTING APPLE and ask the US Government to force them to return at least a part of the production to the US is A GOOD IDEA.

“By the not very clear photo of TIM WORSTALL, he is an ethnic Chinese.”

That’s the most amusing comment I’ve had here at Forbes yet.

I have (well, what’s left of it) red hair, no epicanthic fold around my eyes and many freckles.

This doesn’t immediately strike me as identifying me as an ethnic Chinese. In fact, I’d suggest that the red hair and freckles might be taken as an indication of an Irish addition to my genetic heritage, something which has the odd benefit of actually being true, to add to the Anglo Saxon/French Hugenot/various UK Celtic and Mestitzo Peruvian parts of it.

Mr. Worstall overlooks the fact that wages are controlled in China by limiting the mobility of workers. Krugman’s model doesn’t hold when labor cannot easily move, borders between provinces are nonporous, and higher-wage jobs in large cities are protected by Hukou. In many ways, China treats labor as a natural resource under government control.

This article, like any other, is based on assumptions. This one is based on (among other things) that what has happened in the past will continue to happen. But guess what? The world is a community, and the community can change what it finds to be unacceptable.

Capitalism is cruel because it’s blind. All it can see is profit and loss of profit. So the only thing that will work is to show a company that it will lose money until it changes.

If you would like to sign a petition that tells Apple that it’s lost your business until they improve compliance to their own standards for workers by a mere 11%, please go to

http://goo.gl/KjQc9

Each signature generates a separate email to Apple, so the more who sign, the better. Thanks.

We can throw up our hands and say “too bad, they’re poor, we can treat them like crap” or we can be decent people and pressure Apple to do better.

If we pressure Apple to lead the way by improving labor conditions, the others will follow suit. Much like if you want to improve animal rights, you pressure McDonalds.

The ONLY way to fix this injustice is to hurt Apple’s brand and pocketbook. So join us in Boycotting Apple, by “liking” us on Facebook (COPY AND PASTE THIS INTO a BROWSER): https://www.facebook.com/pages/Boycott-Apple/157824344331874

Brilliant. That way workers making above average wages will lose jobs, move back into abject poverty and their extended families will no longer have the additional income to improve their own lives. Maybe you should run for office with logic like that. You also seem to have the ability to ignore the fact that Apple is already doing those things and we know that politicians live to ignore the facts to advance their own cause.

Sounds like the same argument that was made about slaves in Africa and the South. But, when you start using them to improve your profits, you bear some responsibility. And lying about it doesn’t really help your cause.

As a bilingual inventor and business owner in Asia I spend a great deal of time on factory floors other than my own throughout Asia and have asked floor workers that very question, ie. do you feel exploited and how do you feel about the possibility of a boycott of the products you make?

Almost to a person they react with worry at the prospect of their jobs being effected and are confident things will only improve for them over time if nobody does anything stupid. They also imply that they’re the real winners in the global labor competition because most of them are well aware they’re taking jobs from workers in the West.

Right now, for example, there are white boards on public display in the Shenzhen area where labor brokers write down proposed monthly wages for desperately needed workers and revise the figures upward hourly if no one shows up to accept them so market forces are alive and well in Asia.

Truly, the best thing the West could do from an Asian perspective to help everyone is to get its own economic house in order in order to restore the health of the global economic system and increase the overall wealth of nations for everyone’s ultimate benefit.

I do have to say though on a further note that FoxConn/Hon Hai is commonly regarded as a sweatshop even here in Asia. Work like a dog and, if you’re lucky, get stock options before you get chewed up and spit out. About ten years ago, for example, Terry Guo offered me a job at Hon Hai while one of his suppliers happened to be listening in from the side. Afterwards the supplier told me the last I wanted to do is work in a sweatshop like Hon Hai, which I subsequently declined to do, opening my own business instead.

One of my friends who owns a factory on the mainland told me this morning that none of her designers returned to work on Monday after Chinese New Year. All of them found work inland near their homes at businesses which have relocated there recently. Looks like it’s shaping up to be a double whammy year for coastal enterprises.

I live in China and often am involved with factories in the heavily industrialized areas of Guangdong province (adjacent to Hong Kong). Life for the factory workers is indeed bleak. The most common living arrangement is 4 workers to a room in a featureless multi-story cinder block building with no elevator that is more reminiscent of a penal gulag. Luckier ones have their own toilet with a cold water faucet, but often the bathroom is down the hall and shared by many, and there is never indoor heating or air conditioning. It doesn’t get any better than this for unskilled workers but can be much, much worse. Probably the worst part of this life is the hopelessness; there is no vehicle for upward mobility, no way to climb up or out. The workers are faceless, nameless, unappreciated numbers existing within a terribly polluted, emotionally cold, physically draining, very depressing environment, toiling long hours at very low paid, utterly unfulfilling labor.

To say that Apple and other foreign firms are not at least partially responsible for this human exploitation is nonsense, in fact the entire reason they are there is to skirt paying a living wage with attention to worker safety that would come with domestic production. Also, anyone that is literate by now knows that they continually bribe politicians to maintain favorable conditions for outsourcing. In addition, the big multi-nationals squeeze third world suppliers out of the last drop of pricing blood and regularly threaten them with factory closure and relocation to cheaper areas. The author’s analysis of suicide statistics is meaningless, since a worker’s first act of desperation would be termination, and a subsequent suicide would not be noted.

First this article confirms that there is no relation between intelligence and wisdom.

The Crime Workers start jumping off the foxconn building and killing themselves.

Foxconn puts up a net.

Apple gives Foxconn an award.

The 2nd Crime A prototype phone gets lost in China.

The responsible worker is tortured to the point that he takes his own life to end the torture.

Foxconn packs 10 people to a 10×10 room. Foxconn workers are putting in 16 hours per day. Much of this is not voluntary.

I am not saying that we should shut down production in China. I am saying that we as consumers should insist on better conditions for the workers. Apple has 98B in cash. They will have $200B in 3 years.

Am I asking too much that we bunk 4 people max per room.

Am I asking that we try to understand the causes of the suicides and adress the root cause.

I will be boycotting Apple Products and my extended family will be boycotting Apple products.

My advice is simple then. Before you run off half-cocked and do anything stupid, ask a few Hon Hai factory workers directly (and anonymously) what they want you to do to help improve their lot. My guess is it’s not going to include well-meaning boycotts but rather something along the lines of what they’ve told me: get your own economic house in order so workers don’t get squeezed harder and harder here; ask Apple — and other U.S. corporations — to share a bit more of the big profits they’re making by using them to improve workers conditions here; and ask Terry Guo not to replace them with robots the way he’s planning to do now.

Apple is a business not a charity. That’s what people forget. Additionally, US infrastructure and labor force is not agile enough to deliver what they do at the speed they do. People argue against Apple without understanding facts. Everybody is a manufacturing or supply chain genius in social forum. That is the problem.

It should be abundantly clear to anyone that middle class Americans were doing much better before globalization and outsourcing of the industrial base (IT is disappearning now too). Yes, there were problems–intransigent and overly demanding labor unions, inept management caused from lack of competition and having a captive market, avaricious lawyers and frivolous litigation etc–but back then solutions were possible. Not anymore, the jobs and problems that came with them are gone. Now CEO’s can sit back, exploit human labor in developing world sweat shops, earn 475 times a US domestic worker’s wages, and have apologists like the author isolate them from consequences.

I completely agree with the author of this article. I am an American who lives in China, and its amazing to me how many American’s like to deny the existence of reality. Of course it would be nice if everyone in the world could receive great health care, high paying jobs, and gourmet meals. However, that is not reality. It doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t strive for a better world, but it means that we need to do it in the context of reality. Imposing our fairy tell fantasies about how the world should be, helps nobody. And I would like to suggest that all of the complainers, start their own business, and show us evil capitalist how to “humanely and ethically” conduct business. The reason that the complainers can never make an alternative to HP, Apple or Samsung is because the rules of the universe don’t allow fantasies to become reality. I recently took a trip to rural China (read about it in my blog: http://eaaasyusuf.blogspot.com/2012/01/amazing-unexpected-trip-into-rural.html), and let me just say that most of the posters here would not last 1 day in rural China. It’s why millions of Chinese go to work at Foxconn. The conditions are not perfect there, but it does offer them the opportunity to improve their lives. Comparisons to slavery are ridiculous. First of all, they all have the choice to stay on the farms in rural China, but very few young people remain on the farms because life is so harsh in rural China. There is no choice in slavery. Secondly, slaves are not paid. These workers are paid, and their housing is subsidized which means they can save their money. While in college 10 years ago, I worked in a retail store. I would venture to say that many of these workers are better off than a lot of my coworkers at the retail store in the United States. I think at that time the minimum wage was $7.50 in the Bay Area, which by my calculations is slightly less than $1300 per month. Consider that the cost of living in the Bay Area is much higher than Southern China, consider that they had to pay for their own housing, and they had to pay to commute to work every day on public transportation, then the $1300 a month in the Bay Area, might technically when readjusted be less than the $350 to $600 per month that the average Foxconn worker earns. These factory workers are able to send money back home, which improves the lives of their entire family. Furthermore, many of these factory workers, end up eventually starting their own companies in their hometowns in the hinterlands, or in Southern China. Their first introduction to obtaining the skills to run a business don’t come from the farms in their hometowns, but come from their exposure to capitalism in these factories. Furthermore, every year the factory workers are able to demand higher and higher wages because of economics. Within 5 years most of these factory jobs will have left China for even lower developed countries. These factory workers don’t need the help of American do gooders. Rather market capitalism will on its own work on solving these inequalities. Its amazing how people think they are so intelligent, but have no clue about the basics of reality. For those interested, you can also read my blog post in which I challenge my Mom on these very absurd ideas: http://eaaasyusuf.blogspot.com/2012/01/hippie-capitalist-argue-about-apples.html

Interesting idea the Apple boycott. Well there’s certainly a problem with working conditions & wage rates in China’s newly industrialised economy. Some of the stories one hears are positively dreadful. But Foxxcom, who make Apple products, are one of the best employers. They have a much better safety at work record than the average Chinese employer & pay higher wages. If one was genuinely concerned about Chinese working conditions & wished to boycott a Chinese made product there’d be plenty of other places to look. Perhaps the smaller metalworking enterprises with their dangerous machinery & inadequate ventilation. The sort of place that made the garden furniture you bought last summer or the bicycle you gave your young daughter for Xmas. All those spot welds made with no proper fume removal & inadequate eye protection from arc flashes. The paint spraying done without effective ventilation & respirators. The low wages that enable you to purchase the product for just a few bucks. How is boycotting Apple going to help those workers? More likely it’ll harm them. With less products to make, Foxxcom will have to lay off workers. With more workers seeking jobs those other factories will be able to resist demands for higher wages. Ignore pressure to improve working conditions. So why the Apple boycott. Couldn’t be because Apple’s such a well known name could it? Gets to put the organisers of the boycott in the public spotlight. Doesn’t do their other interests any harm either. The publicity. Now if I was an actor say. And fancied myself as a bit of a playwright as well……

I will never buy anything from Apple again, after I learned of the slaves Apple employees to make its products, how they mis-treat them, abuse them, and steal patents from small companies. This is modern day slavery and Forbes Magazine supports it?

This author is mis-informed, if conditions were as good as he said, then why did Apple try to cover it up? Why are the Chinese slaves committing suicide? And you minimize the suicides by numbers! One is enough but there were over 30 in one month! Then you try and shift the blame to Foxconn , no Apple knew what was going on, and tried to cover it up, after reports leaked, they sent a team of people over there to cover it up. Who did they kill off?

Since Shanghai wants to encourage such in-humane treatment buy rejecting the injunction, I think all Americans, should check the label, if it is made in China or by Apple, they should not buy it, and boycott it! And we should boycott Forbes Magazine too!

Who cares what Paul Krugman says? Apple is the king of bad corporate citizens. If the Chinese want to treat their workers like slaves thats one thing, but this is a US corporation taking advantage of the people and making billions doing so. Outsoucing corporations should be taxed up the wazoo in my opinion. The American middle class is becoming extinct thanks to bad corporate citizens like Apple. The author uses the phrase “spouting nonsense” five times in this article. I think the article is spouting nonsense.

This is the first article I’ve seen on this topic that actually makes sense. Thank you. I’ve been an Apple fan since 1984 and have worked in systems for more than 30 years. I have never been fond of watching so many jobs leave the US. Automobiles, Electronics, Industrial and Farm Equipment and what about WalMart? One probably cannot find anything in that store that didn’t come from China. Umm There is no computer equipment, or smartphones or related equipment being built here in the US. I now know why. A few months ago I set out to have some prototypes made of a computer related accessory. So far the companies I have worked with have produced nothing usable to date. Just plain sloppy workmanship, overpriced, late delivery…you name it. American workers don’t want to work. They just want to get paid. It doesn’t surprise me that Apple Computer took manufacturing off-shore years and years ago. It doesn’t surprise me that Dell, HP and all the others did too. In the least, if there is an argument for poor conditions of the 1.2 million employees of Foxconn, argue with all the other companies not just Apple. Apple only employs 770,000 of those downstream workers making it just about 64%. And there are many other companies there other than Foxconn. What is the total workforce in China? How many work for WalMart suppliers?

I agree that a boycot of apple should commence, as they do not manufacture their products in North America. This should also apply to several other companies that sell the majority of their products within North America. Good corporate citizens should be doing their best to reduce unemployment here at home and this just doesn’t appear to be happening and likely won’t until they are forced to do so. When shopping I always check to see if the goods are manufactured in Canada, Mexico or the USA. If we all did this great strides in reducing the high number of unemployed people.

>With compounding this means that manufacturing wages in China have risen four times since the turn of the century. The cause of this? Those vast factories built by the likes of Foxconn, the huge numbers of electronic toys and shiny gewgaws that we buy as they pour out of them.

Before the suicides, workers were paid 900 RMB per month. http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/19/the-fate-of-a-generation-of-workers-foxconn-undercover-fully-tr

Basically minimum wage. Apple does not contribute any more to the local economy than any other employer.

The reason people were upset about learning about Foxconn wages and working conditions was the same reason they were upset about Bain Capital — they expect that corporations will be “nice” to people since many employees work harder when they feel it helps coworkers. In fact I recently read something about people who say they have a “close friend” at their workplace, which was only somewhere around 15~30%, were more productive, happier, etc.

Why corporations are not “nice”, and how to create jobs without requiring corporations to be nice and without more government spending: http://jobcreationplan.blogspot.com/

I am surprised that this article has been published by Forbes, and the author with regard to America and the American people.

The author mentions Apple, which is what all of the cool kids to these days. I’m not supporting China. I have been interested in the facts, and I don’t support companies that outsource our jobs to China, although it makes sense to do so from their point of view.

Research Foxconn and other companies other than just APPLE, along with the working conditions and wages. Check which products or electronics that you own or purchase, to see which are made in the same place probably under worse working conditions.

Try searching Wikipedia to start and see a partial list other than Apple of companies who use them. Why didn’t the author write the same about all of the companies who use Foxconn? Wikipedia’s partial list major customers

Tale a look at more then electronics manufacturing, and see how many of our jobs have moved to China, including Pfizer and Coke, you might want to write regarding all of the companies. It was a given that anyone hired at Pfizer’s or Coca Cola in our area had a job for life regarding Pfizer, and an easy to find job with good wage and benefits with Coke. They were always hiring here. Two examples of the many job losses to us. Our own daughter who had a wonderful job, and a Master’s Degree, had to train the two non-American people that her job was being outsourced to. What a slap. Our son with 4 years of training in the industrial field lost his good job to an illegal alien. Now my husband is loosing his job in the steel fabrication and erection business. They are closing as most seem to be doing. They can’t compete with prices of steel made ON the ships enroute from the Far East.

The article refers to conditions in China. It’s China and the Chinese people seem to want to keep their jobs. See the slowdown of manufacturing in China, and the people that are not happy having lost overtime after Apple has made an effort to improve conditions, but in no way can they control what China does, or how the companies are run or their practices.

To Charlesliu, You insult American’s and the US and yes – too many American’s work long hours and double shifts if they can even find a job. Since you said “Y’all” are you living in your ancestral, unplumbed, unheated country or in the USA out of curiosity. If you are not doing so already, why don’t you take the opportunity to move back? I’m sure you’d be welcome and to line up for a job at Foxconn, which you seem to like. Also, Poor working conditions and other things can lead to mental illness such as depression and suicide.

Personally I’d like to see all of the jobs come back to the USA at whatever cost.

My electronics job was lost as a result of jobs being outsourced to China as many other millions of American jobs have been.

I am sure that jobs at Foxconn are better than jobs in other facilities in your country. This does not concern me. We lost many of our jobs to your country and no one pointed out or did anything regarding the conditions that existed in our factories, which most of are now closed. My grandmother retired from a factory where there was no heat, no air conditioning and she worked double shifts. She also had a job cleaning offices at night to raise my mom and my aunt. She had no central heat and no hot water in her home, to mention at the very least. I’m very proud of my grandmother and other hard working Americans who do not have the many advantages and equitable income or benefits.

That being said American’s would love the opportunity to take the jobs back from your unheated, unplumbed ancestral home of China and let people “y’all” or your people get on with their lives.

Purchasing a product be it from Apple or whomever, does not mean that myself or any American is happy about the job situation in the USA That being said American’s who boycott company’s or products do so for a reason known only to them.

Apple does not have “sales” as you put it and most of “y’all” as you put it, don’t rush out in the droves of people from your ancestral unplumbed, unheated home do, to spend a month or two month’s wages (as it has been written, if true) If they do they are seriously misguided.

Also the loss of jobs to China gave the US, dead pets from poisoned pet food, dangerous toys for our children, as well as harmful chemicals in many products, poor quality or dangerous medications to mention just a few.

I apologize for the lack of proper grammar and/or spelling. I’m angry after reading this and the comment I referred to to begin with.

>My electronics job was lost as a result of jobs being outsourced to China as many other millions of American jobs have been.

Easy job creation, without more spending by the government or even by the rich, through the accelerated work week: http://jobcreationplan.blogspot.com/

On the subject of Chinese jobs, buying an iPad would create the same number of jobs whether it sells for $500~600 or just for $350. Similarly, other products (that are cheaper, or even in entirely different product categories) also create jobs. There is no reason to buy an Apple product because a worker at Foxconn ‘wants you to’, or even because “Apple is being nice to its workers by spending 3% of the cost of an iPhone on labor instead of 2%”. For an objective standard and a description of what types of spending most effectively lead to job creation (either domestic or overseas), see this post: http://jobcreationplan.blogspot.com/2012/05/alternative-to-socialism.html

i could care less about working conditions in china(i do but i think we should focus on us first. Dr. heal thy self so you are capable of healing others) what i care about is image ..apple the all american company.. lies lies lies. yes they all outsource labor but the others arent in a trial right now. apple reminds me of the donna read era where everything is proper and vanilla in public but not so much in private. its too late now tho, apple has tarnished its rep beyond repair. they are now on the edge of downfall. all it will take is one bad situation to push em over the edge. and now they are pushing away sam and goog.. have fun with that; sam chips made their product less expensive and goog soft made their product better with a billion dollar data base that they think they will just up and do better. goodbye apple i loved you once, but i think we should see other tech now.

Very good. Someone FINALLY got it. Like I worked in a call centre, there may be different companies represented there but they are all disjointed segregated from each other. Same deal with Foxconn, they all produce IT stuff for different but similar companies but they aren’t connected by any means.

Why I say that? Apple is the ONLY company that makes best effort to be transparent to the public in it’s manufacturing employment. Look at the other guys. Do we get invited to view their employment standards and processes? OH HELL NO!

In my eyes, Apple has taken the extraordinary steps and the others hide in the shadows like there’s a smoking gun they don’t want found. I like to see the other guys manufacturing processes and employment standards and see how they stack up to Apple. The lack of released information is not looking good for them to me.

It’s nice to see the truth published for once instead of the normal BS. First of all, I’m no Apple fanboy. But Apple has become the scapegoat for an inept American society that is no longer competitive not only at the mfg level, but in innovation and engineering. Obama, Hillary, and Romney all sit around and try to show how bad China is, but yet can’t communicate a better way.

The sad part is how many Americans stand in line to buy a new “must have” iPhone 5 then turn around and slam China for poor human rights and companies that offshore. Then stop at Walmart and buy more China goods.

We’ve become a country of, and led by, wimps. What happened to the days of we’re going to kick butt. We’ll out design you, out engineer you, and even out mfg you. And if we outsource, it’s because we’re taking advantage of these 3rd world countries to give Americans even better jobs.

This article is a great start to recovery. Face the facts, then make a strategy, and execute.

You sir are missing the point. China is not an acceptable form of competitive labor, despite what you think. Remember how little they pay their employees? Or how much Money Apple is making off of calling Americans lazy now? Mechanization and modernization is one thing Apples move helps to prevent as they push for html5 as well, since there will be more source code restrictions and put on for longer periods of time, modernization can now be stopped completely, when we are so close to ending the need for human labor. Are you supporting the Marxist cause? Here is what they said in the 50′s about companies like Apple:

“The Reds have succeeded in inducing business communities to look to Soviet trade as a means of restoring prosperity. Large business elements, with all their financial and other resources, are now being used to help the Communist objective of softening up America for recognition and acceptance of Red China, for instance.” source = COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES

Although I’m concerned about working conditions in foreign nations and how they relate to American companies, I’m even more concerned about the impact on American jobs and our standard of living, largely due to U.S. corporations’ having their manufacturing done anywhere that it’s cheaper than in the U.S.A.

If I can outline in one phrase what U.S. corporations, and the GOP/tea party, and even a significant portion of the Democratic Party are all about it’s “Profits before people”. Our government services are under severe attack, our civil liberties are eroding fast and people in this nation are starving. But Apple and many other companies are doing fine while millions are permanently unemployed and have lost their homes, especially since, in addition to paying low wages to companies that use Chinese labor, our tax codes allow Apple and many other companies to horde their riches in secret bank accounts overseas. A nation can’t remain on top just because it has a huge military machine. Rome fell due to its ultimate abandonment of humanity, and that’s what’s happening in the U.S.!

“As every individual, therefore, endeavours as much as he can both to employ his capital in the support of DOMESTIC industry, and so to direct that industry that its produce may be of the greatest value; every individual necessarily labours to render the annual revenue of the society as great as he can.”

First of all, even if we could assure the workers in Third World export industries of higher wages and better working conditions, this would do nothing for the peasants, day laborers, scavengers, and so on who make up the bulk of these countries’ populations.

Is this supposed to make sense? You could say this about anybody who wants a raise. If this is the level of thinking that comes from economists (and sadly it is) why listen to any of them. Didn’t the higher wages of the union employees flow through the rest of the community and help build wealth everywhere in the town?