Expired Registration = Car Towed?

Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum. I originally joined to ask a question about whether I could fight a ticket, but since the processing of my registration on here took nearly a week, today I had to decide and I pled guilty, assuming that there's not much to argue if my car was expired and the law says there's a fine. Still, I thought I would ask my question on here to see what people think.

So 2 Sundays ago I was half a mile from getting to work when I was pulled over for expired registration, which I had forgotten. He hardly said anything, and just decided to give me a fine for $158 AND make me tow my car. I towed it home, registered online in 2 minutes, and then left, getting to work an hour and a half late. This is in PA by the way.

My primary question is: is there any way I could fight it at all? Possible bases being that he followed me for over a mile before pulling me over (I heard something about that, is it a real 'law' or legal argument?); the location he wrote on the ticket isn't where he pulled me over; maybe towing isn't standard procedure (I'd really like to know this one, as I put in the thread title); or just the fact that the whole thing is ridiculous when it's an honest and basically harmless mistake that can be rectified in 2 minutes--probably even from the laptop sitting right in his car. Not to mention it could have been fixed months ago if the DMV had just sent me something to tell me I forgot, like any respectable bill-collecting agency would do. (I wrote this last week. Now that I pled guilty, I'm guessing I would have to appeal and all that stuff, which is probably more work than it's worth. Mostly for curiosity's sake I'm still asking.)

I have a clean criminal and driving history and I was NICE to the officer, so I would prefer not to hear any comments calling me stupid or I had it coming, or "I've never forgotten MY registration", 'cause seriously, everyone forgets stuff. (Sorry if I'm assuming negatively, I've just seen responses like this to someone with a similar post a while ago.)

My secondary question is, if the police are here to protect and serve the citizens--the good ones such as myself especially--how did his handling of the situation do that? Most people I've talked to that were pulled over for the same thing said they just got a warning and were allowed to drive away, and I would think if he's here to help ME and not the government's pockets, he would have done the same.

Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum. I originally joined to ask a question about whether I could fight a ticket, but since the processing of my registration on here took nearly a week, today I had to decide and I pled guilty, assuming that there's not much to argue if my car was expired and the law says there's a fine. Still, I thought I would ask my question on here to see what people think.

So 2 Sundays ago I was half a mile from getting to work when I was pulled over for expired registration, which I had forgotten. He hardly said anything, and just decided to give me a fine for $158 AND make me tow my car. I towed it home, registered online in 2 minutes, and then left, getting to work an hour and a half late. This is in PA by the way.

My primary question is: is there any way I could fight it at all? Possible bases being that he followed me for over a mile before pulling me over (I heard something about that, is it a real 'law' or legal argument?); the location he wrote on the ticket isn't where he pulled me over; maybe towing isn't standard procedure (I'd really like to know this one, as I put in the thread title); or just the fact that the whole thing is ridiculous when it's an honest and basically harmless mistake that can be rectified in 2 minutes--probably even from the laptop sitting right in his car. Not to mention it could have been fixed months ago if the DMV had just sent me something to tell me I forgot, like any respectable bill-collecting agency would do. (I wrote this last week. Now that I pled guilty, I'm guessing I would have to appeal and all that stuff, which is probably more work than it's worth. Mostly for curiosity's sake I'm still asking.)

I have a clean criminal and driving history and I was NICE to the officer, so I would prefer not to hear any comments calling me stupid or I had it coming, or "I've never forgotten MY registration", 'cause seriously, everyone forgets stuff. (Sorry if I'm assuming negatively, I've just seen responses like this to someone with a similar post a while ago.)

My secondary question is, if the police are here to protect and serve the citizens--the good ones such as myself especially--how did his handling of the situation do that? Most people I've talked to that were pulled over for the same thing said they just got a warning and were allowed to drive away, and I would think if he's here to help ME and not the government's pockets, he would have done the same.

1. He can follow you for how ever long he wants. In Maryland we have a year and a day to charge you so technically I could just give you a tick a year later. He has no obligation to pull you over the second he observes the violation. And what says the second he got behind you he observed the violation. He could have been waiting for a computer response showing that you were expired.

2. The officer won't write where he stopped you on the citation its where the violation was detected/observed.

3. I cant speak for your state but technically if your registration is expired then you are basically driving a unregistered vehicle (Because it is not current with its registration). And if your not current with your registration tecnically your insurance company would not be required to cover you because it is in there contract that you will maintain current registration while operating the vehicle on the highway. So now if the officer lets you drive and you get in an accident.. who do you think will get blammed. I am sure when asked you would say "The officer said I could drive." The officer acted within the law and was justified in towing if he felt the need.

4. Regarding your last comment. Just because one officer gives someone else a warning doesnt mean everyone gets a warning. It gets old with everyone and their mother expecting to get a warning just because someone else got one. Its not the officers fault your registration expired. You failed to notice it was expired and you suffered consequences for it.

5. For the question of fighting it, I am not sure what you want to fight. You wont be able to fight the tow fees. Thats done and over. As for the citation ignorance is not a defense. Was it expired or not. If yes, thats it. Guilty..

Possible bases being that he followed me for over a mile before pulling me over (I heard something about that, is it a real 'law' or legal argument?);

There is no truth to that whatsoever.

the location he wrote on the ticket isn't where he pulled me over

Your tag was expired from the time he saw you until he stopped you. The location on the cite can be anywhere in between. It isn’t like speeding where the infraction only happened at a specific spot.

Not to mention it could have been fixed months ago if the DMV had just sent me something to tell me I forgot

I got a notice a couple of months before mine even expired. I don’t see why your state wouldn’t do this.

My secondary question is, if the police are here to protect and serve the citizens--the good ones such as myself especially--how did his handling of the situation do that?

You were doing ok until this. This is the type of crap that makes people on here post means things. YOU forgot to renew your plate and now you have to pay the price. Don’t rationalize your mistake and blame it on the mean officer. The whole protect and serve crap is way too overused. Everyone tries it. The guy stopped for speeding tells us to go catch a robber. The robber tells us to go catch the murder and so on. No one’s crime is ever big enough and worth our time when they get caught.

Stare:
I hadn't considered that there could be a problem with insurance. I'll check that out for future reference, even though I won't be forgetting to register any more :-) . The only thing that sounds weird about that, is that someone told me (and the registration process seems to confirm) that the reason you register is so they know that your vehicle has insurance. But doesn't that seem circular? Can't register without insurance, can't get insurance unless you're registered. Thanks for your other answers too.

Bushum:
Thanks. We do usually get notices a few months ahead, and maybe I got it or lost it, I don't know. But like with a bill, or my car insurance, they send you the bill ahead of time, then if you don't pay it they let you know. I don't see why the DMV can't do the same. The reason I'm annoyed is that it seems they purposely don't tell you so they can make more money when you get caught by the police.

For the last part, I've been assuming that registration is purely like a "car ownership tax" that doesn't affect anyone but the car owner and the DMV. If Stare is right about the insurance thing, then you're right. Otherwise, if it's not hurting anyone, I don't think you can compare it to robbing or killing. Thanks again for the input.

Stare:
I hadn't considered that there could be a problem with insurance. I'll check that out for future reference, even though I won't be forgetting to register any more :-) . The only thing that sounds weird about that, is that someone told me (and the registration process seems to confirm) that the reason you register is so they know that your vehicle has insurance. But doesn't that seem circular? Can't register without insurance, can't get insurance unless you're registered. Thanks for your other answers too.

Bushum:
Thanks. We do usually get notices a few months ahead, and maybe I got it or lost it, I don't know. But like with a bill, or my car insurance, they send you the bill ahead of time, then if you don't pay it they let you know. I don't see why the DMV can't do the same. The reason I'm annoyed is that it seems they purposely don't tell you so they can make more money when you get caught by the police.

For the last part, I've been assuming that registration is purely like a "car ownership tax" that doesn't affect anyone but the car owner and the DMV. If Stare is right about the insurance thing, then you're right. Otherwise, if it's not hurting anyone, I don't think you can compare it to robbing or killing. Thanks again for the input.

Hopefully someone from your state can post specific information regarding your jurisdication as I can only speak for mine. A specific county in our state requests that anytime we stop someone for expired registration to write them for 1)unpaid registration fees 2)unregistered vehicle (because even though it is registered it is not current) and 3)uninsured. That is what the states attorney's office requests. But I have no clue about PA. But I could imagine in any state the your contract with your insurance company would be the same. You are agreeing to maintain a currently registered vehicle. Also note I said it gives them a way out of covering you, I didnt say they absolutely wouldnt cover you. But the fine he wrote you is much smaller then you would face in Maryland. The fines would total a few hundred and a must appear in District Court.

Of course not that wasn't the point. People always wonder why we are "bothering" or "harassing" them and use the rationale that there are bigger, more important things that we could be doing. If everyone including us thought that way the only thing we would be doing is sitting around waiting for the ultimate crime like murder. While we are waiting for someone to get killed you and other motorists are ticked off that a guy just cut you off going 100 MPH and we aren't around or willing to do anything.

Well, I called my insurance co. today (Nationwide), and they said that the car would still be insured with expired registration. So maybe that's a state-regulated thing, whether the insurance people can get out of covering you for that... I guess I'm lucky to live in PA in this case. I feel bad for MD people; that seems like an unfair loophole.

Bushum:
So if someone forgets to pay their registration, but they're still insured and not endangering or harming anyone, you still think it should be your job to be a bill collector for the DMV?

You have to see that if they would send out even one notice to people that forget to pay, you'd be saved from wasting your time pulling over probably 80+% of people with expired registrations.

The sentence you quoted by me was intended to mean that harmless infractions like mine are in a completely different class from dangerous ones (speeding, etc.), and that's why I said they couldn't be compared. Because to me, there's no reason to punish someone for doing something harmless--it just doesn't make sense. I would liken this scenario to one of your friends forgetting to pay you back on time, and rather than reminding them you take out a bat and smash them in the face. I'm not arguing that it's not your duty to enforce the law with regards to registration--that much is obvious--I'm just saying, it shouldn't be your job, until at least some diplomacy has been attempted.

Well, I called my insurance co. today (Nationwide), and they said that the car would still be insured with expired registration. So maybe that's a state-regulated thing, whether the insurance people can get out of covering you for that... I guess I'm lucky to live in PA in this case. I feel bad for MD people; that seems like an unfair loophole.

Bushum:
So if someone forgets to pay their registration, but they're still insured and not endangering or harming anyone, you still think it should be your job to be a bill collector for the DMV?

You have to see that if they would send out even one notice to people that forget to pay, you'd be saved from wasting your time pulling over probably 80+% of people with expired registrations.

The sentence you quoted by me was intended to mean that harmless infractions like mine are in a completely different class from dangerous ones (speeding, etc.), and that's why I said they couldn't be compared. Because to me, there's no reason to punish someone for doing something harmless--it just doesn't make sense. I would liken this scenario to one of your friends forgetting to pay you back on time, and rather than reminding them you take out a bat and smash them in the face. I'm not arguing that it's not your duty to enforce the law with regards to registration--that much is obvious--I'm just saying, it shouldn't be your job, until at least some diplomacy has been attempted.

That Vehicle Registration --that you have a duty to maintain-- is property of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania (I.E. the People residing in the State of PA). When you fail to maintain that or pay it, you are being negligent towards your duty as a Licensed Driver of the Commonwealth to pay your dues and keep your registration current.

The Officer/Trooper who iniated the stop, and issued you a citation is not a "Fee Collector for PennDOT", he is a Officer of the Law issuing you a summons to appear before a Magistrate and be held accountable for violating a Pennsylvania Motor Vehicle Code.

You say "Shouldn't he be out arresting the Robber.." Well he would be if he didn't have to stop people who violate minor laws.

158 Dollars and Having your car towed home is not near what someone will get if they commit a Robbery.. so your right. You can't COMPARE them.. what you went through is SO minor compared to the Prison Sentence and Fines a Felon will get.

I'm just saying, it shouldn't be your job, until at least some diplomacy has been attempted.

Really In all honestly, it's none of your concern when and how any LEO decides to conduct HIS business. When was the last time a cop walked into your store, and told you how to stack your oranges? Sheeesh

I'm not arguing that it's not your duty to enforce the law with regards to registration--that much is obvious--I'm just saying, it shouldn't be your job, until at least some diplomacy has been attempted.

Really even though, the STATE says it is a law, and our job as LAW enforcement is to enforce laws. So if we should overlook, unregistered motor vehicles, what should be next. Unlicensed drivers, no insurance.

Then who's job sould it be........Maybe yours to re-register it when its due....That is what being called responsible is.

So if someone forgets to pay their registration, but they're still insured and not endangering or harming anyone, you still think it should be your job to be a bill collector for the DMV?

There's murder, and then there's involuntary manslaughter. One is purposeful, the other is an accident. One can be sentenced to death, the other to a few years in prison. Similarly, there's purposeful avoidance of paying a bill/tax/whatever after repeated reminders, and then there's accidentally forgetting to pay one because you were only reminded once 4 months ago and you forgot. If you people can't see the difference, then I give up.

I'll give a few personal responses and then I'm probably giving up, 'cause it doesn't seem that anyone can imagine that things might be easier and more just if they were differently than they are now.

MP:
Allow me to quote myself in the post that you responded to: "I'm not arguing that it's not your duty to enforce the law with regards to registration--that much is obvious..." So, I really don't see the point of anything you wrote.

exComptonCop:
I'm pretty sure it IS the people's business how you deal with them. Aren't they the ones that give you permission to do what you do? Anyway that isn't even what I was trying to say in what you quoted by me, I was saying that in an IDEAL world, police would not have to pull over everyone that forgets to pay their registration because they would be reminded to do it and most of them would.

VACOP:
I said this before: forgetting registration is not endangering anyone. Unlicensed or uninsured obviously is. Your emphasis of "LAW" did make me realize though, that I suppose it's not a "law" to pay your insurance co. or credit card co., whereas it is to pay the state. Maybe my main problem (which I also addressed above) is that the law treats normal people as criminals, which they are not.

bowers:
You're right, there should be a penalty. A graded penalty. When you go to pay online or at the DMV, maybe it should be 25% if you're a couple days late, 50% after you get a letter telling you you're late, 100% after a second... and if you're purposely not paying it, and the police have to get involved, THEN you can be treated like a criminal and pay the 600% fine that I paid.

To everyone, thanks again for your inputs, I do appreciate getting other opinions, even though they seem to all be against me.

exComptonCop:
I was saying that in an IDEAL world, police would not have to pull over everyone that forgets to pay their registration because they would be reminded to do it and most of them would.

Apollo,

Okay, lets play it this way...Don't look at this as if you received a fine, look at it as if you received a $158.00 reminder to pay your registration. It worked didn't it?

In my state, the CADMV already has a fine system in place for failing to pay vehicle registration on time. Perhaps if your state had one, people would stop "forgetting" to pay their fees on time. I own a truck, a luxury car, a toy hauler, two PWC, and three off road vehicles, and pay over two grand a year in fees. It hurts, but I pay, and I pay on time.

VACOP:
I said this before: forgetting registration is not endangering anyone. Unlicensed or uninsured obviously is. Your emphasis of "LAW" did make me realize though, that I suppose it's not a "law" to pay your insurance co. or credit card co., whereas it is to pay the state. Maybe my main problem (which I also addressed above) is that the law treats normal people as criminals, which they are not.

I do not think the law treats normal people as criminals. I think like excompton cop said "its a 158.00 reminder"

We all makes mistakes (its human), but we also have to learn for those mistakes, you got a ticket and prob. wil not forget to pay again.

Maybe my main problem (which I also addressed above) is that the law treats normal people as criminals, which they are not.

lmao...that's some of the funniest stuff I've seen on this forum. Yeah, I'm not sure why they call law-breakers "criminals."

Registration is a small offense, but an offense nonetheless. If you don't like it, be sure to write legislation so they can change it. That way you and all your expired friends can drive around and not have to worry about registering your vehicle.

There's murder, and then there's involuntary manslaughter. One is purposeful, the other is an accident. One can be sentenced to death, the other to a few years in prison. Similarly, there's purposeful avoidance of paying a bill/tax/whatever after repeated reminders, and then there's accidentally forgetting to pay one because you were only reminded once 4 months ago and you forgot. If you people can't see the difference, then I give up.

True but those examples bear no relevance when it comes to violations of the vehicle code. It involves the proof of intent. Most vehicle code violations are considered "absolute liability" which means you need not have any intent, you only needed to violate the statute as it is written. In this instance, how is the officer to know which person you are? He has no way of telling whether it was an oversight or whether you just decided you're no longer going to pay to register your vehicle. Therefore he took the route that he felt would ensure that you get the violation taken care of promptly. I can't speak on towing the vehicle as that portion is different in my area. Here it would take a more serious registration offense to get your vehicle towed.

In Pa all residents get a reminder in the mail a few months before the vehicle registration expires. You' re vehicle's registration expires and needs inspection on the same month every year for as long as you own the vehicle. Thus, if your registration was expires, did you also forget your inspection? The officer did his/her duty to enforce the motor vehicle laws in Pennsylvania. You don't pay the registration fee to legally operate you're vehicle in Pa then there if subsequent fines and costs associated with that. I understand that people forget to do things, but you are still guilty of an infraction (which warrants towing by the way.) Your best defense in court may have been to show the Judge (with evidence) that you quickly took care of everything, and the Judge may have given you a break on the fine ammount (I have no idea what happened in your case, and if you did this and got a break, good for you.)

On another note, if you fail to pay your insurance company they will drop your coverage. After this you will be operating an uninsured motor vehicle and is some states that is an arrestable offense. If you fail to pay your credit card bills, your credit score will head in the direction of DOWN, and you could be taken to civil court by said company. Everything has consequences, forgetting about something required by the state to operate your motor vehicle is irresponsible, and as a reminder to pay on time next year, you just had to pay a few hundred dollars this year.

Wether you want to believe it or not you violated the law (vehicle code). You did not commit a heinous act and were not thrown in jail, but you still were driving an unregistered vehicle and paid a fine for breaking the rules. If you dont like the rules then you can either contact your legislation to change the rules or turn in your driver license so you dont break more rules. I'm not sure how your state works, but the California Highway Patrol's funding comes straight from DMV registration fees. Are they not supposed to pay their officers, gas bills, etc because you and many others "forget" to pay your bills......??? Accept some responsibility....you made a mistake by unintentionally breaking the law...you got caught and had to pay a fine....case closed.

The bottomline is it is against the law to operate an unregistered motor vehicle on a public highway. We as cops are Law Enforcement Officers..you broke the law the officer enforced it. I cant speak for the officer because I was not there but maybe his dept policy is to tow for unregistered..who knows. I noticed you didnt state when your vehile expired. How much of a time lapse was it? As far a paying for the registration and if you believe in the the "car ownership tax" concept might I suggest the shoeleather express or a bicycle. "I forgot" is an excuse. Isnt there a sticker on you window or license plate that states the expiration date on the car that you drive every day? If so how can you blame the DMV for not notifying you. I stop cars on a regular basis. Ive heard excuse after excuse. Everybody expects a break. Yes, there is such thing as descretion but I have to draw a line somewhere. How do you expect an officer to explain to his supervisor why he/she stopped 15 cars and wrote only 3 tickets. You stated you were on your way to work. That tells me you have a job and have a boss too which means you understand the concept of productivity. Here is my honest advice..learn form your mistake and chalk it up to experience.

A registration violation, in Pennsylvania, doesn't require that the vehicle be towed.

Based on the fine's total, I would have to conclude that your registration was expired more than 60 days.

It doesn't "require" that the vehicle be towed, but the vehicle can be towed, since an expired registration = unregistered vehicle. And the law states that no unregistered vehicle can be driven on the highways in the Commonwealth.

I can also tow your vehicle if the inspection is expired as I have no way of knowing if your vehicle is mechanically safe to be operated on the street. However, the vast majority will be either given a citation or a written warning.

§1301. Registration and certificate of title required.

(a) Driving unregistered vehicle prohibited.—No person shall drive or move and no owner or motor carrier shall knowingly permit to be driven or moved upon any highway any vehicle which is not registered in this Commonwealth unless the vehicle is exempt from registration.

(d) Penalty.—Any person violating the provisions of subsection (a) is guilty of a summary offense and shall, upon conviction, be sentenced to pay a fine of $75 or double the registration fee, whichever is greater, except when the vehicle was previously registered in this Commonwealth within 60 days of the commission of the offense whereupon the fine shall be $25. In the case of a motor carrier vehicle other than a trailer, the fine shall be $50 if the motor carrier vehicle was previously registered in this Commonwealth within 60 days of the commission of the offense or, if the registration occurs outside the 60-day period, the fine shall be double the registration fee for the maximum weight at which the vehicle could have been registered in this Commonwealth.
(Chgd. by L.2002, Act 152(6), eff. 2/7/2003; L.2004, Act 228(3), eff. 1/1/2007. Matter in italics not effective until 1/1/2007.)

The vehicle inspection and registration will usually be set to expire at the end of the same month. There may be an unusual situation such as transferring a valid registration plate with an expiration date of say 02/07 to a vehicle whose inspection may not expire until 06/07.

However, by and large both inspection and registration will be set too the same month. It is solely the driver's responsibility to ensure both are valid and both are taken care of.

Just to add, PENNDOT does send you a reminder to re-register your vehicle. Are you claiming you never got the renewal?

Have you moved since it was last registered and if you did, did you notify PENNDOT of the change of address within 15 days as required by law?

Even if PENNDOT slipped up and failed to mail your renewal or it was "lost in the mail", its still YOUR responsibility to make sure your vehicle is legal.

You may "fight" the citation by pleading not guilty and having a hearing in front of a magistrate. He may dismiss the charge if you show proof that you registered your vehicle. This usually happens if it expired within the last month. I've never seen one dismissed if it was expired longer than 30 days.

Unless something is really special, I just write a summons and send them on their way. They can prepay the $30 fine and $56 costs, or if they get the registration renewed at the first possible day and let the judge know, he'll usually CWL it, no fines or costs.

Unless something is really stinky about the whole deal, I'm not towing them just for that.

I'm sorry, I didn't read much past the opening, just too much going on just now. Sorry if I missed something more.