wildcardjack: Remember how Patrick Stewart did those flaming homosexual sketches, but wound up marrying a hot chick a few months ago? fark labels. I'm just about tired of people insisting on knowing the orientation of actors and other professionals. So what if there's a gay in your locker room, you're nit there to compare bits.

I'll give you Heche and Heard. I refuse to give you Lohan on the basis that she's a horrible attention whore. I never heard her claim to be gay, but I would have assumed she was lying. So you have two examples out of dozens.

Your argument boils down to "A couple other people came out as gay and married guys, plus she's too pretty." You'll have to excuse me if I don't find that convincing.

And FWIW, I think the "she's too pretty" argument works against you. I don't find her attractive at all.

LoneWolf343:wildcardjack: Remember how Patrick Stewart did those flaming homosexual sketches, but wound up marrying a hot chick a few months ago? fark labels. I'm just about tired of people insisting on knowing the orientation of actors and other professionals. So what if there's a gay in your locker room, you're nit there to compare bits.

It's almost like he's an actor or something.

yeah, this. NPH acts like the biggest womanizing jerk on tv, but he is gay gay gay.

frepnog:Your Neighborhood Pessimist: It's not a fad, it's "Hey, being gay isn't a career death sentence anymore (unless you play football), and the change of being raped, road-hauled then dumped in a field somewhere isn't what it used be! I suppose it's okay now."

NDP2:ciberido: HotWingAgenda: DamnYankees: Now that I think about it - is she the most famous openly homosexual actor? Spacey and Foster are more famous, but aren't out of the closet (unless you count that weird speech Foster made).

I didn't know Kevin Spacey was gay. That puts American Beauty in a different light.

I don't mean this as an attack, but it really shouldn't matter whether an actor is gay or straight. A gay actor can play a heterosexual character, or vice-versa, and it shouldn't matter any more than an atheist actor portraying a Catholic or vice-versa.

And yet for whatever reason it seems to matter quite a bit to a lot of people.

You're right that it shouldn't matter but that doesn't mean it does. Right now, Page is at the point in her career where she's on the "go to" list of actresses Hollywood casts as quirky romantic interests. Now that she's come out, it will be interesting to see if she'll still be cast in such parts or, because Hollywood believes audiences aren't smart enough to know the difference between real life and make believe, she'll be suddenly be getting nothing but secondary character roles. If it's the latter, it just show for all the talk about how liberal Hollywood is, it's just empty words when the perceived bottom line comes into play.

In principle you have a good argument. Unless I'm mistaken though her career peaked years ago. Not that she's disappeared but her career has been on a mild downwardish status qouish trajectory for years AFAIK. The historically likely forward projection for a 26 year old actress whose fame peaked 5 years ago is a slow slide to irrelevance. Hard to blame on the gay if that happens.

I DON'T CARE. it's a message board, people post stories and others post their thoughts. i don't care if ellen page is gay and finds true love with a woman. if she does, good for her. everyone deserves someone to love.

moogoob:Or are you worried that your (hypothetical) fap fantasies are rendered null and void by this news?

there is not one mainstream female celeb that I fap to. no need, with incredible levels of porn mere keystrokes away. it's also why I am basically against graphic sex scenes in mainstream film. you can't or won't show the real thing (or even with CGI), so no point.

ok, why is it that we can CGI exploding heads and put that in films, but can't show CGI penetration? how is it not the same thing?

frepnog:LectertheChef: two short months after the GLAAD event where she came out

not sure what to tell you.

LectertheChef: "It's been frustrating as I don't label myself one way or another - I have had successful relationships with men and now a woman. I love who I love, it's the person that matters."

of course she said that. she met johnny depp on the set of rum diaries and all pretense of being gay withered under his cock.

Except of course, she said the very same thing at the GLAAD event. Her coming out consisted of her saying hey, that's my girlfriend over there. So, she never said she was gay, and neither did Lindsay Lohan. Lohan explicitly stated that she's bisexual. So now we're back down to just Anne Heche.

I DON'T CARE. it's a message board, people post stories and others post their thoughts. i don't care if ellen page is gay and finds true love with a woman. if she does, good for her. everyone deserves someone to love.

moogoob: Or are you worried that your (hypothetical) fap fantasies are rendered null and void by this news?

there is not one mainstream female celeb that I fap to. no need, with incredible levels of porn mere keystrokes away. it's also why I am basically against graphic sex scenes in mainstream film. you can't or won't show the real thing (or even with CGI), so no point.

ok, why is it that we can CGI exploding heads and put that in films, but can't show CGI penetration? how is it not the same thing?

Well, you must care about something if you're bothering to type out (and defend) your theories on why Ellen Page isn't, in your opinion, actually gay but really faking it and will at some point in the future "come out" again as having slept with guys.

So, then, you don't care about fap fantasies. Fair enough. Neither did you say anything about the queer community's reputation, so that's probably out. Hmmm... could you be interested in promoting bisexuality and combating bisexual erasure? Are you just "calling it", as in the way one would make a bet? In that case, you wouldn't bother to have such a heated debate about it.

Hmm. Why do *I* care enough to bother, you're probably going to ask? I care about the reputation of the queer community and of bisexual erasure. And I'm bored. But mostly the first two.

oh oops, looks like YOU WILL NEVER FIND THAT ARTICLE ON THE NET AGAIN.

Different url, but the same article. And oh look, a quote from that article: "I hate the idea of a label just as much as anyone else but I'm with who I'm with, I love who I love and I'm if not a better actress than I was yesterday and my personal life should have no effect on that." Lots of websites said she was a lesbian, she didn't.

moogoob:Ima4nic8or: Never heard of her before but that is one nice looking chick. I doubt she is gay. Its darn rare for a good looking woman to be gay. She probably just hasn't been hosed by a real man yet. Send her my way and I would have her begging for man meat in no time.

LectertheChef:frepnog: LectertheChef: two short months after the GLAAD event where she came out

not sure what to tell you.

LectertheChef: "It's been frustrating as I don't label myself one way or another - I have had successful relationships with men and now a woman. I love who I love, it's the person that matters."

of course she said that. she met johnny depp on the set of rum diaries and all pretense of being gay withered under his cock.

Except of course, she said the very same thing at the GLAAD event. Her coming out consisted of her saying hey, that's my girlfriend over there. So, she never said she was gay, and neither did Lindsay Lohan. Lohan explicitly stated that she's bisexual. So now we're back down to just Anne Heche.

moogoob:LectertheChef: frepnog: LectertheChef: two short months after the GLAAD event where she came out

not sure what to tell you.

LectertheChef: "It's been frustrating as I don't label myself one way or another - I have had successful relationships with men and now a woman. I love who I love, it's the person that matters."

of course she said that. she met johnny depp on the set of rum diaries and all pretense of being gay withered under his cock.

Except of course, she said the very same thing at the GLAAD event. Her coming out consisted of her saying hey, that's my girlfriend over there. So, she never said she was gay, and neither did Lindsay Lohan. Lohan explicitly stated that she's bisexual. So now we're back down to just Anne Heche.

Are bisexuals not queer?

Sure they are, but he's claiming that these women specifically came out as lesbians.

LectertheChef:moogoob: LectertheChef: frepnog: LectertheChef: two short months after the GLAAD event where she came out

not sure what to tell you.

LectertheChef: "It's been frustrating as I don't label myself one way or another - I have had successful relationships with men and now a woman. I love who I love, it's the person that matters."

of course she said that. she met johnny depp on the set of rum diaries and all pretense of being gay withered under his cock.

Except of course, she said the very same thing at the GLAAD event. Her coming out consisted of her saying hey, that's my girlfriend over there. So, she never said she was gay, and neither did Lindsay Lohan. Lohan explicitly stated that she's bisexual. So now we're back down to just Anne Heche.

Are bisexuals not queer?

Sure they are, but he's claiming that these women specifically came out as lesbians.

no. just no. the issue is this - there is now a generation or two of women that have never NOT had easy access to porn, and porn makes it look like girls doing girls is just normal and awesome. so you have quite a few young women that for a while decide they are gay because boobs are awesome and girls can't get each other pregnant and eating pussy feels great and penises are scary.

and then they meet the right guy and they figure out that, oops, nope, NOT GAY.

no. just no. the issue is this - there is now a generation or two of women that have never NOT had easy access to porn, and porn makes it look like girls doing girls is just normal and awesome. so you have quite a few young women that for a while decide they are gay because boobs are awesome and girls can't get each other pregnant and eating pussy feels great and penises are scary.

and then they meet the right guy and they figure out that, oops, nope, NOT GAY.

my own wife was guilty of the exact same thing.

Why "guilty"? Was experimentation until she discovered her preference wrong or harmful in any way?

moogoob:Why do *I* care enough to bother, you're probably going to ask? I care about the reputation of the queer community and of bisexual erasure.

i think it is damaging to the gay community myself because I think that being gay is not a choice, but it makes it look that way when people like Amber come out and proclaim themselves gay and then marry men and gives ammo to people who want to claim that you can just stop being gay if you want.

frepnog:the issue is this - there is now a generation or two of women that have never NOT had easy access to porn, and porn makes it look like girls doing girls is just normal and awesome. so you have quite a few young women that for a while decide they are gay because boobs are awesome and girls can't get each other pregnant and eating pussy feels great and penises are scary.

frepnog:moogoob: Why do *I* care enough to bother, you're probably going to ask? I care about the reputation of the queer community and of bisexual erasure.

i think it is damaging to the gay community myself because I think that being gay is not a choice, but it makes it look that way when people like Amber come out and proclaim themselves gay and then marry men and gives ammo to people who want to claim that you can just stop being gay if you want.

frepnog: the issue is this - there is now a generation or two of women that have never NOT had easy access to porn, and porn makes it look like girls doing girls is just normal and awesome. so you have quite a few young women that for a while decide they are gay because boobs are awesome and girls can't get each other pregnant and eating pussy feels great and penises are scary.

frepnog:moogoob: Why do *I* care enough to bother, you're probably going to ask? I care about the reputation of the queer community and of bisexual erasure.

i think it is damaging to the gay community myself because I think that being gay is not a choice, but it makes it look that way when people like Amber come out and proclaim themselves gay and then marry men and gives ammo to people who want to claim that you can just stop being gay if you want.

As a bisexual I realize that yes, I have the rare privilege of being able to choose what gender of partner I pursue.

Would you argue that by practicing my privilege I am doing harm to the queer community? That by not choosing to advertise myself as "gay" for having a boyfriend I am harming others? If so, that is what we call "bisexual erasure". While I CAN choose who I can date, I can't choose who I find attractive. I can't stop myself from finding an attractive woman attractive, no matter how long I make out with my boyfriend - it doesn't work that way.

So in your opinion I should, what? Just call myself "gay" and stuff the straight part of myself into a closet? That's awfully farking backwards.

moogoob:Why "guilty"? Was experimentation until she discovered her preference wrong or harmful in any way?

just a figure of speech, calm down.

i put this out there to all straight guys -

at any time did you feel the need to suck a dick to find out if you were gay, or did you just realize that chicks made you feel funny in your pants?

it's porn, dude. porn. that is why chicks these days will do another chick so easily. if man on man action was as mainstream as girl on girl, you MIGHT have more guys that have sucked one. but it isn't like that in porn. even in MMF scenes, the guys do the girl, NOT each other. you have to seek out male gay porn.

So what, this ^ never happened or it was all a sham? Looking into a bit more, apparently most of it was rumors, but it still seems strange as they had been photographed together a lot. She had been pictured with Leo as well whispering "sweet nothings" to each other.

Maybe she was using it as a front to not discourage discriminatory people from seeing her movies, or maybe she's bi and figured that saying "I'm bi" doesn't really have the same effect as going full blown gay. Which is probably a true statement..

They are friends who share a love of hockey and same-sex relationships.

no. just no. the issue is this - there is now a generation or two of women that have never NOT had easy access to porn, and porn makes it look like girls doing girls is just normal and awesome. so you have quite a few young women that for a while decide they are gay because boobs are awesome and girls can't get each other pregnant and eating pussy feels great and penises are scary.

and then they meet the right guy and they figure out that, oops, nope, NOT GAY.

my own wife was guilty of the exact same thing.

When I first moved to Jacksonville, Florida a buddy and I went on a bar hopping trip one fine sunny afternoon and ended up sitting in a coffee house/beer pub drinking the afternoon away when we had a chasing Amy moment that the people who started filtering in were of a particularly lesbian nature.

A girl and her girl sat next to us and we starting chatting and to our surprise we were in a bar in the middle of a pride march route.

The beers were flowing and we decided to go to a local english pub(the london bridge) and one of the girls asked if she could come with.

We hit the pub and drank until midnight and I said I was going to my apartment across the street to take a quick shower to freshen up(i had planned on calling a lady friend to come over) when the lesbian asked me if she could see my place, as she had always wanted to see the building. So we went over to my place, and I dipped into the shower and next thing I knew I had naked, scruffy legged chick in the shower with me. She told me she felt as if we had some sort of connection and it was now or never to try it out on the straight side of the street.

I was henceforth know as the guy who picked up a lesbian at a pride march.

About a week later I was out having dinner, and she showed up wearing a dress and heels, perfume, and told me that she knew I liked girly girls so she was going to try it out for awhile.

moogoob:frepnog: moogoob: Why do *I* care enough to bother, you're probably going to ask? I care about the reputation of the queer community and of bisexual erasure.

i think it is damaging to the gay community myself because I think that being gay is not a choice, but it makes it look that way when people like Amber come out and proclaim themselves gay and then marry men and gives ammo to people who want to claim that you can just stop being gay if you want.

As a bisexual I realize that yes, I have the rare privilege of being able to choose what gender of partner I pursue.

Would you argue that by practicing my privilege I am doing harm to the queer community? That by not choosing to advertise myself as "gay" for having a boyfriend I am harming others? If so, that is what we call "bisexual erasure". While I CAN choose who I can date, I can't choose who I find attractive. I can't stop myself from finding an attractive woman attractive, no matter how long I make out with my boyfriend - it doesn't work that way.

So in your opinion I should, what? Just call myself "gay" and stuff the straight part of myself into a closet? That's awfully farking backwards.

I think outing yourself as a Canadian is worse than being one of those queermos.

frepnog:moogoob: Why "guilty"? Was experimentation until she discovered her preference wrong or harmful in any way?

just a figure of speech, calm down.

i put this out there to all straight guys -

at any time did you feel the need to suck a dick to find out if you were gay, or did you just realize that chicks made you feel funny in your pants?

it's porn, dude. porn. that is why chicks these days will do another chick so easily. if man on man action was as mainstream as girl on girl, you MIGHT have more guys that have sucked one. but it isn't like that in porn. even in MMF scenes, the guys do the girl, NOT each other. you have to seek out male gay porn.

I am calm. Just a question. I'm sure you know this already but porn, while yes it does certainly play a role in shaping people's sexual expectations does not, except in very rare circumstances relate to actual sexual activity between people.

theflatline:moogoob: frepnog: moogoob: Why do *I* care enough to bother, you're probably going to ask? I care about the reputation of the queer community and of bisexual erasure.

i think it is damaging to the gay community myself because I think that being gay is not a choice, but it makes it look that way when people like Amber come out and proclaim themselves gay and then marry men and gives ammo to people who want to claim that you can just stop being gay if you want.

As a bisexual I realize that yes, I have the rare privilege of being able to choose what gender of partner I pursue.

Would you argue that by practicing my privilege I am doing harm to the queer community? That by not choosing to advertise myself as "gay" for having a boyfriend I am harming others? If so, that is what we call "bisexual erasure". While I CAN choose who I can date, I can't choose who I find attractive. I can't stop myself from finding an attractive woman attractive, no matter how long I make out with my boyfriend - it doesn't work that way.

So in your opinion I should, what? Just call myself "gay" and stuff the straight part of myself into a closet? That's awfully farking backwards.

I think outing yourself as a Canadian Torontonian is worse than being one of those queermos.

yes there are stereotypes, but stereotypes are often based in fact. gay women, truly Scotch gay women tend to be a bit masculine. are there hot lesbians? oh, surely, but there are far more that look like truckers.

moogoob:frepnog: moogoob: Why "guilty"? Was experimentation until she discovered her preference wrong or harmful in any way?

just a figure of speech, calm down.

i put this out there to all straight guys -

at any time did you feel the need to suck a dick to find out if you were gay, or did you just realize that chicks made you feel funny in your pants?

it's porn, dude. porn. that is why chicks these days will do another chick so easily. if man on man action was as mainstream as girl on girl, you MIGHT have more guys that have sucked one. but it isn't like that in porn. even in MMF scenes, the guys do the girl, NOT each other. you have to seek out male gay porn.

I am calm. Just a question. I'm sure you know this already but porn, while yes it does certainly play a role in shaping people's sexual expectations does not, except in very rare circumstances relate to actual sexual activity between people.

So as a bisexual do you watch more man on man loving or dude on chick hammering?

And as frepnog suggests, do you ever watch male porn and think "I would love to wrap my lips around that meat whistle."?

moogoob:As a bisexual I realize that yes, I have the rare privilege of being able to choose what gender of partner I pursue.

then here is what I propose - the same experiment others have done.

watch some hardcore gay porn. then watch some hardcore straight porn.

one will turn you on. one will very likely.... well, not.

my wife is a good example. she has had sex with girls. even enjoyed it. but she is neither gay or bi. gay porn (girl on girl) makes her laugh and seems silly. straight porn makes her soggy and she flicks the bean.

I DON'T CARE. it's a message board, people post stories and others post their thoughts. i don't care if ellen page is gay and finds true love with a woman. if she does, good for her. everyone deserves someone to love.

moogoob: Or are you worried that your (hypothetical) fap fantasies are rendered null and void by this news?

there is not one mainstream female celeb that I fap to. no need, with incredible levels of porn mere keystrokes away. it's also why I am basically against graphic sex scenes in mainstream film. you can't or won't show the real thing (or even with CGI), so no point.

ok, why is it that we can CGI exploding heads and put that in films, but can't show CGI penetration? how is it not the same thing?

Well, you must care about something if you're bothering to type out (and defend) your theories on why Ellen Page isn't, in your opinion, actually gay but really faking it and will at some point in the future "come out" again as having slept with guys.

So, then, you don't care about fap fantasies. Fair enough. Neither did you say anything about the queer community's reputation, so that's probably out. Hmmm... could you be interested in promoting bisexuality and combating bisexual erasure? Are you just "calling it", as in the way one would make a bet? In that case, you wouldn't bother to have such a heated debate about it.

Hmm. Why do *I* care enough to bother, you're probably going to ask? I care about the reputation of the queer community and of bisexual erasure. And I'm bored. But mostly the first two.

I don't have the vaguest clue who's right (and neither do any of you) but the idea that an actor with declining prospects would pull a publicity stunt that's well timed to get positive exposure is hardly groundbreaking. And it's hardly implausible that she's genuinely bi or pan sexual or some such but announcing "gay" because it's better pr. If in 5 years she meets Mr. Right there's very little downside to reversing field whether that is in her mind now or not.

moogoob:while yes it does certainly play a role in shaping people's sexual expectations does not, except in very rare circumstances relate to actual sexual activity between people.

there is NO WAY that having easy 24 hour access to porn has NOT shaped people's sexual preferences and what they are willing to do sexually.

porn will not make a straight man gay but it will definitely make a straight girl kiss another girl, even if only because they think it is what men like.

porn is also the reason my last long term relationship was with a girl, devout pentacostal, would not wear pants, would not cut her hair or wear makeup, but would swallow every drop and let me try out every kink in the book on her.

BafflerMeal:frepnog: moogoob: Why do *I* care enough to bother, you're probably going to ask? I care about the reputation of the queer community and of bisexual erasure.

i think it is damaging to the gay community myself because I think that being gay is not a choice, but it makes it look that way when people like Amber come out and proclaim themselves gay and then marry men and gives ammo to people who want to claim that you can just stop being gay if you want.

frepnog: the issue is this - there is now a generation or two of women that have never NOT had easy access to porn, and porn makes it look like girls doing girls is just normal and awesome. so you have quite a few young women that for a while decide they are gay because boobs are awesome and girls can't get each other pregnant and eating pussy feels great and penises are scary.

frepnog:moogoob: As a bisexual I realize that yes, I have the rare privilege of being able to choose what gender of partner I pursue.

then here is what I propose - the same experiment others have done.

watch some hardcore gay porn. then watch some hardcore straight porn.

one will turn you on. one will very likely.... well, not.

my wife is a good example. she has had sex with girls. even enjoyed it. but she is neither gay or bi. gay porn (girl on girl) makes her laugh and seems silly. straight porn makes her soggy and she flicks the bean.

Sigh. Why does it always become about porn? Oh well. I'll bite.

It's not a very good comparison, and I'll tell you why. Gay porn is often performed with a lower budget and with lower-paid actors than straight porn. There is much less of it made, and less of a variety as a result. Are you into midget women dominating tied-up men with a vinyl-gloved handjob spurting into a glass which she then drinks? 1200 hits. Looking for the same thing on a gay site? You might find that number of hits of boring, missionary ass-humping. If you're lucky.

Ahh, here's a good example: Blowjob videos. Looking for them on a straight porn site? You've got professionally filmed, you've got amateur, had and soft core, women sorted by hair colour and breast size. High def and 3d, in some person's home or at a gloryhole. Lots of choice. Same thing on a gay site? A few amateur videos, a handful of homemade, a handful of gloryhole. You could try to narrow your search to "twink" or something but you'd always get mislabeled stuff anyways.

Not to say there isn't good gay porn on the interwubs, there is but its hard to find.

Now, if you were to have asked "when you watch straight porn do you watch the guy or the girl?" I'd have answered "yes". ;) Does that answer your question?

moogoob:yes it does certainly play a role in shaping people's sexual expectations does not

Not necessarily.

For stupid people who aren't very self aware, I could understand it. However, most people do have the ability to compartmentalize what they see for viewing pleasure on the internet apart from what they do with people whom they are having sex.

Your argument is akin to saying that a person is in real life exactly how they behave on an internet forum, or that saying people's behavior when drunk is indicative of their "true" self. A set of blatantly false absolutes.

I totally don't care about this. But I will make plenty of posts stating exactly how I feel, declaring myself right, ignoring all evidence to the contrary, and using anecdotal data to prove myself right.