Windows mobile is a brand new platform? What on earth are you talking about. iOS and Android came from an installed user base of nothing less than four years ago, windows mobile is on version SEVEN starting with pocket PC which was released over ten years ago.

And still no copy on paste on this version, they've had enough time to integrate it before now...

And they still haven't got it right, Apple are on iOS 4 (just) as many major revisions in as many years and are already ahead of windows mobile, which is an established, mature platform with almost ten years of life 'in the wild'.

The OS is based on new code, while Windows Mobile was built off the same code one release after another...

Really, if you can't comprehend this much, I feel sorry for you, and if people want a phone with microsoft software and copy and paste, they can get an HD2 running 6.5.5 and have a great phone.

Are you seriously trying to give credit to Microsoft for being an innovative company? If Apple never invented the iPhone, would there be anything like windows phone 7 out there? I mean, look at everyone in the smart phone industry trying their best to copy/paste Apples iPhone design and feel. Seriously, stop jocking Microsoftcrap and call it like it is, windows phone 7 is years late, its going to eventually fail, and if not, enjoy mediocre at best marketshare.

You sound ANGRY!

Seriously, what on earth is your problem? Who cares if this does well? What people like you are too dumb to realize is if there are multiple platforms that all do well, it means there's a lot of competition, and a lot of innovation! Had the PC era started out this way we would have seen many different computers instead of just "Mac vs PC."

If Apple never invented the iphone, you still would have seen a lot of similar products that you see today. The candy bar touch screen design was inevitable, and the mobile OS war would have been between Android and WM (which in itself might have been enough for MS to write a whole new mobile OS.) Apple's role was like gasoline on a fire.

Honestly, I had a WM phone for 2 years and I switched to Android. Even with WM being "outdated" there was plenty for me to miss.

they don't, and I was schooled on this just a few weeks ago. Apparently smart phones like these still only take up a small portion of the market, so expansion for any platform is still up in the air. I don't think domination by any single platform is good which is why I'm all for many different companies taking a crack at this.

If HP can get away from that awful design of the Pre, and give us some logical hardware, Web OS will step up. WebOS already has a following with many people showing it's capabilities.

Android of course is doing fine, as is iOS which seems to be evolving into a more robust OS poised to replace full blown desktop operating systems.

WP7 seems ok. Not my cup of tea, but I can see it's appeal.

Next we'll have MeeGo on an Intel Moorestown phone.

I think this kind of stuff is exciting in a way, and really wish the PC era had gone like this.

Seriously, what on earth is your problem? Who cares if this does well? What people like you are too dumb to realize is if there are multiple platforms that all do well, it means there's a lot of competition, and a lot of innovation! Had the PC era started out this way we would have seen many different computers instead of just "Mac vs PC."

If Apple never invented the iphone, you still would have seen a lot of similar products that you see today. The candy bar touch screen design was inevitable, and the mobile OS war would have been between Android and WM (which in itself might have been enough for MS to write a whole new mobile OS.) Apple's role was like gasoline on a fire.

Honestly, I had a WM phone for 2 years and I switched to Android. Even with WM being "outdated" there was plenty for me to miss.

I had a Dell Axim 7 years ago. I will *never* go back to Windows mobile platforms. I had a gaming rig running XP2, Vista(horrible), 7(good) but I stopped playing a few months ago mainly because so many titles are just console ports, assuming it even makes it to PC. All the good games are on consoles, which frustratingly, have worse graphics than a relatively modest US$800 gaming PC. And console graphics aren't going to improve much!

I had a Dell Axim 7 years ago. I will *never* go back to Windows mobile platforms. I had a gaming rig running XP2, Vista(horrible), 7(good) but I stopped playing a few months ago mainly because so many titles are just console ports, assuming it even makes it to PC. All the good games are on consoles, which frustratingly, have worse graphics than a relatively modest US$800 gaming PC. And console graphics aren't going to improve much!

Happy here in the Walled Garden of Good and Evil. LOL

lol yeah if you base a windows mobile experience off a dell axim, I fully understand why you would never go back

I'm not sure why you think business is an insignificant market, then again I haven't seen the sales numbers. You might be right.

22 million a year? LOL. the total install base worldwide for the brick box (over 50%+ failure rate) 360 is only 43.8 million, with well over half coming from the Americas, mainly North America. (http://www.vgchartz.com)

The iPhone has a compelling gaming experience today. If you want to game, there is only one phone for you...the iPhone.

I had a Dell Axim 7 years ago. I will *never* go back to Windows mobile platforms. I had a gaming rig running XP2, Vista(horrible), 7(good) but I stopped playing a few months ago mainly because so many titles are just console ports, assuming it even makes it to PC. All the good games are on consoles, which frustratingly, have worse graphics than a relatively modest US$800 gaming PC. And console graphics aren't going to improve much!

Happy here in the Walled Garden of Good and Evil. LOL

Just wait 'til midnight!

.

"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -

Windows Phone 7 is so bad that reviewers are forced to praise its atrocious interface just for being different. How amusing. Its almost like Microsoft is the underdog nowthe massive, bloated, incompetent underdog.

The OS is based on new code, while Windows Mobile was built off the same code one release after another...

Really, if you can't comprehend this much, I feel sorry for you, and if people want a phone with microsoft software and copy and paste, they can get an HD2 running 6.5.5 and have a great phone.

Sure there is some new code in there, but the basis for Windows Phone 7 is the primitive Windows CE just like Windows Mobile is. His point is quite valid. Microsoft loves to reskin old crappy OSes and get all the clueless Microsoft drones to pay for it again.

Sure there is some new code in there, but the basis for Windows Phone 7 is the primitive Windows CE just like Windows Mobile is. His point is quite valid. Microsoft loves to reskin old crappy OSes and get all the clueless Microsoft drones to pay for it again.

Well then isn't that a credit to brilliant engineers at Microsoft that they have been able to create such a compelling experience given that they had to base it on a Windows CE core!

One of the overriding opinions to come through in all reviews was just how smooth and responsive the UI is.

MIcrosoft, even though it had years of lead time over Apple and Goggle, never got it's act together (as usual). Too late, too little.

The lack of vision permeating through microsoft explains the almost FOUR YEAR delay it took them to put out a competitor to the iPhone. And this, coming from a company that had been in the mobile phone business for years already. Talk about david slaying goliath!

Windows Phone 7 is so bad that reviewers are forced to praise its atrocious interface just for being “different.” How amusing. It’s almost like Microsoft is the underdog now—the massive, bloated, incompetent underdog.

I don't know enough about the phone or WP7 to offer an opinion.

I do not like the look of the UI -- big monochrome tiles, truncated words, horizontal black bar wasting 1/5 of the screen. But, hey, that''s me -- some think it's avant-garde.

I do like the concept of Active Tiles -- Hubs that aggregate notifications/polling for several apps. This is something I would like to be able to do in place of, or in addition to the notifications I receive on the iPhone.

Slightly off topic... on a more personal note: I have been playing with the FaceTime beta on a couple of Macs. It is a little pedantic to set up, but performs quite well. This should be a killer app when enough devices (computers and phones) are able to use it.

The name FaceTime is too constraining. I was using ScreenSharing, so I could see both ends of the conversation-- and was able to deliver a call that opened with the mono-digital salute. So the name FlipTime would me more appropriate.

Certainly, one could use this for things like the Xerox Clench...

... ahhh... technology

Edit: following up on the above, I've discovered a new, distinctive phone case -- the "Uncle Sherman Case" -- with a certain je ne sais quoi for the ladies.

Had the PC era started out this way we would have seen many different computers instead of just "Mac vs PC."

That is how the PC era started out. There were dozens of brands Atari, Commodore, Tandy, Apple, IBM, Sun, SGI, on and on. Now, it is basically just two brands plus Linux. It took a long time to sort out the winners and the also rans.

If MS makes a name for themselves in the phone business then I might give them a second look, but no way will I even spend a minute checking WinPhone out until there is overwhelming public consensus that they have a really successful product. I just don't like Microsoft very much to start with so I am not going to give them the benefit of the doubt. They are losers until proven otherwise.

Great phone?... You mean "great" for a phone with Microsoft software on it...

No, I mean a great phone. The hacking community behind windows mobile is especially appealing. You can pretty much get WM to do whatever you need, and people have even ported Android over to the HD2 as well so if you don't like WM, you can load up Android. You can even run ubuntu.

It's a great phone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullhead

Sure there is some new code in there, but the basis for Windows Phone 7 is the primitive Windows CE just like Windows Mobile is. His point is quite valid. Microsoft loves to reskin old crappy OSes and get all the clueless Microsoft drones to pay for it again.

Windows CE has different versions, and they use 6.0 R3 for Windows Phone 7, which has a completely new kernel and uses Windows Embedded Compact 7 features. Basically CE is the backbone, but it's not primitive, and the new kernel and code they use forced MS to build this OS from the ground up.

Apparently things like copy and paste are possibilities for future releases, and even backward compatibility for running previous Windows Mobile apps in a sort of virtual mode is on the table.

Either way, this isn't the same Windows Mobile OS that we have seen with 6.0 - 6.5.5.

Agreed, iOS1 was indeed ground breaking. It was worth the price of admission just for the elegant use of contacts management, Photo management, visual voicemail, texting and emailing. Especially the syncing with the desktop. And, never mind all the apps! How soon we forget!

Sometimes I read an article on this site that is so blatantly and obviously biased that I have a hard time believe that people can get away with it and call themselves journalists. This is one of those times.

Ok I have read almost the entire comment section of this article and am amazed that no one has mentioned the obvious. Who cares if its 1.0 or 100.5 version ... get ready for it ...

Windows Phone 7 looks like a pile of cow dung! Seriously, the interface looks absolutely terrible. Functionality? Seriously? Who would want to use these old ass looking square boxes, like something out of 1988?

I don't care if this phone could make me breakfast, I'm not using something that looks this bad.

Oh and for those who say this 'NEW' OS to not have Copy/Paste is acceptable are smoking something. Did Microsoft even take note of the massive uproar over iOS not having it? To not have it after almost 4 years since the iPhone has come out is really dumb.

LOL, wow this was the most entertain thing to read all week. So many uninformed posters as well as the most utterly biased article written.

First off, WP7 is NOT a successor of 6.5. Don't say "oh they're both based on Windows CE." Please take an Operating Systems class at your local community college before you start spouting non-sense. Oh and FYI, 6.5 had copy/paste.

Second, I really laugh at all the people saying DOA. Really? Are you the same people that said iPhone was DOA? Or are you the ones that were defending Apple? Seems kind of ironic doesn't it?

Microsoft may be slow, but you shouldn't underestimate them. I'm predicting that WP7 will become a strong competitor against both Apple and Google in the future.

P.S. I would like to play around with WP7, but my heart is set on a Verizon iPhone (keeping my HTC TP, waiting til January to upgrade....)

Ok I have read almost the entire comment section of this article and am amazed that no one has mentioned the obvious. Who cares if its 1.0 or 100.5 version ... get ready for it ...

Windows Phone 7 looks like a pile of cow dung! Seriously, the interface looks absolutely terrible. Functionality? Seriously? Who would want to use these old ass looking square boxes, like something out of 1988?

I don't care if this phone could make me breakfast, I'm not using something that looks this bad.

Oh and for those who say this 'NEW' OS to not have Copy/Paste is acceptable are smoking something. Did Microsoft even take note of the massive uproar over iOS not having it? To not have it after almost 4 years since the iPhone has come out is really dumb.

Ok, off high horse ...

I have no inside knowledge, but I would guess that MS had other plans -- plans to enhance their existing mobile OS offerings.

At some point MS realized that it would be better to back up and start over.

I suspect that decision was made about a year ago.

WP7 appears to be not quite done. It does have some good ideas, but the execution is not right... yet.

I think what we see is similar to what we'd see if Apple or Google were to show their year-long development effort, several months before it was finished and ready to be shown.

But what else could MS do? Do nothing? Rather, they chose to show what they had, insinuate what is coming-- and hope people will wait for them to catch up.

Some will!

I suspect more enterprise IT shops than consumers, will wait for a MS phone.

I believe that MS has until July 2011 (a little over 9 months) to get it together!

I see a big problem for MS in the Tablet area -- and a Tablet running Windows 7 isn't the answer.

IT wants tablet solutions, as well as phone, laptop and desktop solutions.

Well, the hesitatin' stalker's
got them hesitatin' shoes

Lord, I got them Hesitatin' Blues,.

Tell me how long do I have to wait...
Can I get you now, or, must I hesitate?

Yeah!

Hesitation blues (Clean Version)

.

"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -

At some point MS realized that it would be better to back up and start over. I suspect that decision was made about a year ago.

I'd say that's just about spot on. It's impressive what Microsoft's developers can accomplish, and how quickly they can accomplish it, when management help instead of hinder them (I would assume by mainly just getting out of the way).

Windows Phone 7 is so bad that reviewers are forced to praise its atrocious interface just for being “different.” How amusing. It’s almost like Microsoft is the underdog now—the massive, bloated, incompetent underdog.

That sums up about exactly what I was planning to reply. I've been following WP7 news closely since the day it was announced, because I think it's interesting, unexpected, and frankly quite ballsy from Microsoft's part to literally throw everything out of the window (pardon the pun), ditch backwards compatibility for all your current installed base, and basically make a 180 degree turn to base their new phone platform off the same concepts as the iPhone. Closed app store, tight hardware control, full finger UI, gone with the fugly widgets and dialogs they ripped out of desktop Windows for WM, main focus on consumers and not businesses, and very limited OEM customizations. I thought they finally got it, and I thought it was a good thing, competition benefits everyone.

That said, as the launch date came closer lots of the initial buzz got muted, many of the trumpeted features appeared to be unfinished initially, watered down or scrapped altogether, and now that the first reviews are coming in it seems they are all trying to sidestep this as if it's only a minor detail. I want to know how 'office' for WP7 works. What the xbox live integration actually means besides a 3D avatar. How's the 3D performance in games? How's the battery life? Is the new UI actually comfortable to use?

The only conclusion every review seems to draw is that the UI is different and snappy. That's not innovation just because it is different. If it drastically improved the way you use a smartphone, it could be innovative, but I get the impression it's not like that, just different. At the end of the day you still see lots of lists to scroll through, except that you now also scroll horizontally sometimes, and that typography is pretty much the only chrome added to the UI. Horizontal scrolling is not new at all, it rears it's head every now and then but it never sticks, probably because it doesn't work so well. Which may have something to do with the fact that text runs left to right in Western languages, which creates all kinds of readability issues if you have lots of it and you can't wrap it vertically like you do with vertical scrolling.

Eventually WP7 will get some marketshare, but I sincerely don't think Apple will suffer much, my prediction is that it will end up primarily as a business phone OS after they realize that all the consumer oriented gizmo's they tried so hard to stuff in there weren't enough to sway users choosing WP7 over Android or iOS.

There will no doubt be a flood of applications, not that WP7 really needs that many.
...

I'm not saying WP7 doesn't need applications (it does) just that it doesn't need 300,000 to be competitive with iPhone.

It just needs the most popular and high quality applications.
...

It's going to be an interesting few years!

The table have turned in an interesting manner: For decades the MS faithful triumphed Windows over Mac by loudly proclaiming how many programs were available for PCs and how few were available for the Mac. Now look where things stand with the App Store. Not that anyone ever has the time to sift through 300 000 apps!

I have a strong dislike and distrust for the Microsoft company, their style and ethics --based on personal experience as a Microsoft customer and reseller.

And as one of Dick's customers in the days of Compµter Plus, I can vouch for his words above.

Quote:

Yes! There are Innovations in the WP7 UI that are innovative -- as I tried to detail in my post.

There are thoughts in your analysis that are thoughtful. There are expressions in the above that are expressive. You lack of bias is unbiased. [Sorry, Dick, couldn't help observing the "innovative innovations turn of phrase above!]

Actually I felt that your original lengthy comment was one of the best I've seen WRT WP7, and your rebuttal was long on experience and very short on emotion. Thanks for that.

Ex-IBMer Dick has a long and personal view of APPL and the Mac. The reason he's not a tech blogger is that he has integrity!

Not surprisingly, the article puts a slant on the reviews which is not entirely accurate. The reviews have generally been positive, with Mossberg's being the most negative (big surprise there), while noticing the absence of some features in the current release.

For example, the Appleinsider article implies that Engadget did not particularly like WP7, and would not recommend it.

Here is the summary of the Engadget review, which paints a very different picture.

The only site more bias that Walt is AppleInsider. AI is the KING of taking stuff out of context and close to the top of link baiting article titles to drive hits.

"saying the "a pretty face" is the only thing that WP7 offers over its competition" that and Zune Pass. Anything Music trumps both the iPhone and Android.

Copy and Paste.....does anyone know how I can TURN IT OFF on my iPHone as I have NEVER used it and it CONSTANTLY gets in my way when zooming. Microsoft has missed some features, but none of them IMHO are game stoppers and yet their Hub centric GUI and Zune intergration is a game changer IMHO.

That sums up about exactly what I was planning to reply. I've been following WP7 news closely since the day it was announced, because I think it's interesting, unexpected, and frankly quite ballsy from Microsoft's part to literally throw everything out of the window (pardon the pun), ditch backwards compatibility for all your current installed base, and basically make a 180 degree turn to base their new phone platform off the same concepts as the iPhone. Closed app store, tight hardware control, full finger UI, gone with the fugly widgets and dialogs they ripped out of desktop Windows for WM, main focus on consumers and not businesses, and very limited OEM customizations. I thought they finally got it, and I thought it was a good thing, competition benefits everyone.

That said, as the launch date came closer lots of the initial buzz got muted, many of the trumpeted features appeared to be unfinished initially, watered down or scrapped altogether, and now that the first reviews are coming in it seems they are all trying to sidestep this as if it's only a minor detail. I want to know how 'office' for WP7 works. What the xbox live integration actually means besides a 3D avatar. How's the 3D performance in games? How's the battery life? Is the new UI actually comfortable to use?

The only conclusion every review seems to draw is that the UI is different and snappy. That's not innovation just because it is different. If it drastically improved the way you use a smartphone, it could be innovative, but I get the impression it's not like that, just different. At the end of the day you still see lots of lists to scroll through, except that you now also scroll horizontally sometimes, and that typography is pretty much the only chrome added to the UI. Horizontal scrolling is not new at all, it rears it's head every now and then but it never sticks, probably because it doesn't work so well. Which may have something to do with the fact that text runs left to right in Western languages, which creates all kinds of readability issues if you have lots of it and you can't wrap it vertically like you do with vertical scrolling.

Eventually WP7 will get some marketshare, but I sincerely don't think Apple will suffer much, my prediction is that it will end up primarily as a business phone OS after they realize that all the consumer oriented gizmo's they tried so hard to stuff in there weren't enough to sway users choosing WP7 over Android or iOS.

"I want to know how 'office' for WP7 works. What the xbox live integration actually means besides a 3D avatar."

I guess you were really not following the news close enough. It has been explained in many blog aritcles. Play one of the Xbox live games on the phoen and it updates your stats on Live. If the same game is on the 360 your progression/stats are updated there.

I have seen many screen shots of Office for the phone. Add to that Sharepoint sycing has been reviewed. Honestly I have only read a few articles and I picked all of that up.

I had a Dell Axim 7 years ago. I will *never* go back to Windows mobile platforms. I had a gaming rig running XP2, Vista(horrible), 7(good) but I stopped playing a few months ago mainly because so many titles are just console ports, assuming it even makes it to PC. All the good games are on consoles, which frustratingly, have worse graphics than a relatively modest US$800 gaming PC. And console graphics aren't going to improve much!

Happy here in the Walled Garden of Good and Evil. LOL

"7 years ago" yeah what he said because nothing ever changes in 7 years.

And as one of Dick's customers in the days of Compµter Plus, I can vouch for his words above.

There are thoughts in your analysis that are thoughtful. There are expressions in the above that are expressive. You lack of bias is unbiased. [Sorry, Dick, couldn't help observing the "innovative innovations turn of phrase above!]

Actually I felt that your original lengthy comment was one of the best I've seen WRT WP7, and your rebuttal was long on experience and very short on emotion. Thanks for that.

Ex-IBMer Dick has a long and personal view of APPL and the Mac. The reason he's not a tech blogger is that he has integrity!

Thanks Tod -- I think you covered everything I asked you to...

.

"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -

The only site more bias that Walt is AppleInsider. AI is the KING of taking stuff out of context and close to the top of link baiting article titles to drive hits.

"saying the "a pretty face" is the only thing that WP7 offers over its competition" that and Zune Pass. Anything Music trumps both the iPhone and Android.

Copy and Paste.....does anyone know how I can TURN IT OFF on my iPHone as I have NEVER used it and it CONSTANTLY gets in my way when zooming. Microsoft has missed some features, but none of them IMHO are game stoppers and yet their Hub centric GUI and Zune intergration is a game changer IMHO.

I have no particular problem with bias per se, and Walt, while biased, does not make things up.

However, lately, IMO Appleinsider is coming close to yellow journalism, particularly after the Ballmer incident. This article is no different than if someone wrote a summary of the iPhone 4 reviews with the headline, "iPhone 4 suffers from significant hardware problems" and then quoted a bunch of reviewers who had said something about the antenna or proximity sensor.