2. Trying to convince people of something, instead of wanting someone to stop disturbing people by shutting their yap.

Neither of which apply in this situation, at least for the one we're "justifying" ( they both apply fully to the preacher, though). No one's praising the kid for her amazing debate skills, she looks like she's eight so this is about the most it's fair to expect from her, more just the fact that she bothered to pop the stupid respect bubble everyone seems to give these nuts.

I am not going from the guy deserves respect angle, because I think street preacher really do not deserve much. I just don't see why we should condone bad behavior because it is in our favor.

I know you're not going for the respect angle. But a ton of other people do, and we know for a fact preachers generally are given way more respect than they've earned, and that's why people are for seeing someone just flat out treat them like any other loony. No, it's not a good thing to just scream for people to shut up, but it's also not a good thing to spew bullcrud to random passerby. So if someone, who is young enough that actual series debate is extremely unlikely as even if she was some kind of genius he'd probably brush her off, tells the person doing the spewing to shut up, generally, it's going to be seen as justified.

(07-11-2014 10:07 AM)wazzel Wrote: I am not going from the guy deserves respect angle, because I think street preacher really do not deserve much. I just don't see why we should condone bad behavior because it is in our favor.

I know you're not going for the respect angle. But a ton of other people do, and we know for a fact preachers generally are given way more respect than they've earned, and that's why people are for seeing someone just flat out treat them like any other loony. No, it's not a good thing to just scream for people to shut up, but it's also not a good thing to spew bullcrud to random passerby. So if someone, who is young enough that actual series debate is extremely unlikely as even if she was some kind of genius he'd probably brush her off, tells the person doing the spewing to shut up, generally, it's going to be seen as justified.

The only thing that will discourage street preachers is totally ignoring them. Any kind of interaction will only confirm to them they are being heard. As far as I can tell, angry confrontations are the ones that encourage them the most. Besides coming off looking like a brat, she probably ensured he will be back next year with friends.

(07-11-2014 10:50 AM)wazzel Wrote: I disagree. Yelling shut up is bad behavior, finding a reasonable way to get them to be quite or move along would be good behavior. He was not a threat, getting ugly was not justified. Rise above the poop, do not wallow in it.

What do you expect? She's a little kid. A charismatic, skilled argument-maker she is not... yet.

(07-11-2014 10:50 AM)Plan 9 from OS Wrote: She's a child. Children don't have the rights to the same autonomy as adults. They have the same protections under the law to keep them safe and not to be exploited, but they do not have the full fledged rights as a U.S. adult to do what they want when they want like a normal adult. My kids are all under 18, which means they have curfews plus I censor what they are allowed and not allowed to see on TV and the internet. I'm not going to lose sleep over "restricting" my children's freedoms because I'm not letting them consume porn, forcing them to have curfews or holding them to standards of behavior in public places.

I disagree. Kids do have the same rights as adults, but they are not yet old enough to have the same privileges or be unsupervised. This was not the case of a kid walking up to just any adult and yelling "shut up". This was a kid whose personal space was being invaded by this proselytizing. She recognized it was inappropriate and inconsiderate and decided to do something about it.

I can't stop imagining dancing around a street-preacher singing "Hail Satan!", then shaking uncontrollably while speaking in tongues before falling to the ground and pretending to have violent wild sex with an invisible being, finally finishing off looking exhausted and dazed and proudly clutching my tummy.

(07-11-2014 11:05 AM)Mathilda Wrote: I can't stop imagining dancing around a street-preacher singing "Hail Satan!", then shaking uncontrollably while speaking in tongues before falling to the ground and pretending to have violent wild sex with an invisible being, finally finishing off looking exhausted and dazed and proudly clutching my tummy.

She's a child. Children don't have the rights to the same autonomy as adults. They have the same protections under the law to keep them safe and not to be exploited, but they do not have the full fledged rights as a U.S. adult to do what they want when they want like a normal adult. My kids are all under 18, which means they have curfews plus I censor what they are allowed and not allowed to see on TV and the internet. I'm not going to lose sleep over "restricting" my children's freedoms because I'm not letting them consume porn, forcing them to have curfews or holding them to standards of behavior in public places.

None which the things you mentioned are what we're talking about.
Restricting a child from having an opinion you don't agree with is a sign of a bad parent.

Trouble rather the tiger in his lair than the sage among his books. For to you kingdoms and their armies are things mighty and enduring, but to him they are but toys of the moment, to be overturned with the flick of a finger.”

I WISH people near me would pull crap like this. I'd be out there with my amp just reading out my grocery list, or reading contradictions or all the super fucked up stuff in the bible, maybe just sit down and read a harry potter book through the loudspeaker...

(07-11-2014 10:50 AM)Plan 9 from OS Wrote: She's a child. Children don't have the rights to the same autonomy as adults. They have the same protections under the law to keep them safe and not to be exploited, but they do not have the full fledged rights as a U.S. adult to do what they want when they want like a normal adult. My kids are all under 18, which means they have curfews plus I censor what they are allowed and not allowed to see on TV and the internet. I'm not going to lose sleep over "restricting" my children's freedoms because I'm not letting them consume porn, forcing them to have curfews or holding them to standards of behavior in public places.

I disagree. Kids do have the same rights as adults, but they are not yet old enough to have the same privileges or be unsupervised. This was not the case of a kid walking up to just any adult and yelling "shut up". This was a kid whose personal space was being invaded by this proselytizing. She recognized it was inappropriate and inconsiderate and decided to do something about it.

Nope. That's not how it happened. This is what the person who posted the video wrote:

Quote:Every year Salem is inundated with street preachers during out Halloween celebrations. They spend most every weekend during October telling us to "Turn or Burn." I've been recording their interactions with people for a couple of years now for a long running art project, and while this young guy was preaching, a little girl just ran up and started laying into him.
Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2c1_14151...j561BM5.99

I also rewatched the video. Notice how the girl would yell something, pause to glance at the camera and then go back into laying into the preacher? One of two things were happening: 1) either she was acting out because she had an "audience", or 2) the camera man was encouraging the girl to act out. That's the most logical conclusion based on the video evidence.

IMHO, believing that this girl was acting like the alter ego of St. Joan of Arc is the stuff of myths and legends. Clearly, she is acting out. I'm not sure what her motivation is, but rewatching the video clearly shows the girl is glancing at the camera to figure out what she should do next... Acting out or being used by an adult. It's as plain as day.