with Mame:M: You made another really wonderful comment, and for those of us who live here I think it really hit home. And I don't remember exactly what it was but when you tied up (?), but how could she go on CNN when she knows that there are other children...

JP: Oh, one of the comment that she had made on CNN that just, just infuriated me was "there is a killer out there, so hold your babies close to you". And that had not been proven and I was mad because it scared me.

M: But even if it had, to say that so all these children could hear it...

JP: Right, and the parents could hear it. I was terrified. It terrified me.

M: Very selfish thing to do.

JP: Yes, yes and as things progressed later I realized how selfish it was, that she would want us to share in her terror. And I just felt that, oh I was just infuriated.

M: OK so I didn't mean to sidetrack there but you reminded me of a really, you know when you're living here what that does. So much, hit so many different people and neighborhoods and things and still...

JP: Yeah, and her behavior was so odd for me as grieving parents. As I have said on many interviews, you know I would have been right there at the police station camped out saying "whatever you want, whatever I can do, lets find the killer", but instead they lawyer up they get a PR person, they secretly hide out in certain people's homes. I mean it was odd.

M: And so for you this just sort of, whoa (? unintelligible) (barking (Sadie?))

JP: (unintelligible)... pr person, their appearance on CNN, um their, and another thing I noticed on the CNN interview was their rage about the murder, the murderer. Patsy pointed her fingers allot. You could tell she was very ragefull. I didn't see allot of grieving, I didn't see allot of touching...

M: Drama, Dramatics?

JP: Yeah, I saw allot of dramatics. Um, and then when they came back into town it was their secret living quarters and they wouldn't tell some people, according to Susan Stine, that they didn't tell me because they were (?)

(barking) M: (?)secrecy about where they were. (?) They wouldn't let certain people know where they were.

JP: No, and at first I thought it was because she was in such grieving, I wanted to respect her privacy but it just seemed so odd. Anytime I wanted to express something to her it had to be dome through a letter and I just...

M: Did she respond to any of those letters?

JP: No, no. The only response I got was, um about mid-January I got a hand delivered message from William Grey who is one of their lawyers. That was a hand delivered letter that said I was, they realized I had photographs of the family and of JonBenet and I no longer was allowed even to show them in public, ah, blah blah blah blah blah... That, please sign this disclosure that would rescind any rights to photographs and it was just really kind of a slap on the hand. And I had at that point not done anything to prompt that. I had put whatever photographs and negatives I had in a bank vault so...

M: Noone could break in...

JP: Right, noone could break in and the safety of my children was still intact. And to receive this letter out of the clear blue sky, you know, that I couldn't do anything with photographs I had copyrights for was way out of line. I felt it was a slap on the face and that really made me mad, it really made me extremely angry. At that point, that's when I started thinking"What's going on here?" Mame: that was about mid-January?

JP: yeah,

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Maikai posted this and asked, "who is the selfish one here? Judith Phillips was mad because Patsy said there was a killer out there and that scared Judith? There was and is a killer out there!"

A selfish thing to do??? I THINK NOT JUDITH! IN HER TERROR, NOT YOURS, she was trying to warn others, that seems a very UNSELFISH thing to do.

JP makes no sense at all. She knew there was a killer out there! someone just killed JB. Patsy wasn't scaring anybody. The killer SHOULD be feared. Did she think JB killed herself? OF course people should have been afraid, very afraid. It certainly wasn't the Ramsey's fault for God sake!

Talk about infuriation. SHE infuriates me!!!

Patsy's daughter had just been murdered, of course she was ANGRY and had every right to be...she was suffering from every horrible emotion the human is capable of.

JP's a very evil woman, imo. That is not hard to see. She thinks she made Patsy look bad? Ha! I think it's the other way around.

Judith Phillips, "Oh, one of the comments that (Patsy) made on CNN ... was "there is a killer out there, so hold your babies close to you". ..I realized how selfish it was, that she would want us to share in her terror...oh I was just infuriated."

Let me get this straight, Judith, you are thrown into a rage because the mother of a murdered child is warning the public that the murderer is walking the streets?

Judith Phillips, (after the murder)"they secretly hide out in certain people's homes. I mean it was odd."

Let's see, Judith, what would you do? Expose yourself and your family to a murderer who you know is still walking the streets of Boulder AND is obsessed with you? OR would you take immediate security precautions?

Judith Phillips, "...and then when they came back into town it was their secret living quarters and they wouldn't tell some people, according to Susan Stine, that they didn't tell me... They wouldn't let certain people know where they were."

Now, we're getting somewhere, Judith. It's all about you, isn't it? The Ramseys have John Douglas telling them - the murderer knows them and had been inside their home. And YOU wonder why the Ramsey's are protective of their security in Boulder!

Judith Phillips, "Anytime I wanted to express something to her it had to be dome through a letter and I just... M: Did she respond to any of those letters? JP: No, no. The only response I got was, um about mid-January I got a hand delivered message from William Grey who is one of their lawyers. That was a hand delivered letter that said I was, they realized I had photographs of the family and of JonBenet and I no longer was allowed even to show them in public..."

IT IS ALL ABOUT YOU, JUDITH, isn't it? Don't you understand the Ramsey's CAN NOT trust their former acquaintances and fringe friends. They don't want to be around YOU. And they DON'T WANT YOU EXPLOITING their murdered daughter. Yes, Judith, I sympathize with you. You had pictures that were suddenly an entree to alittle bit of fame. Poor you, the Ramsey's didn't want you to have that.

You make me shudder, Judith. May I NEVER share a 'friendship' like yours!

Mame: and did you ask to be spoken to? Or did they take it upon themselves to…

JP: they called me first and asked if it would be okay if they could interview me down at police headquarters. And I said, sure. Mame: did they want to know more about what type of person Patsy was?

JP: well they asked, they interviewed me 3 times. The first time was short and Steve Thomas and Gosage was there and there was a woman whose name I don't recall, those were the 3 that interviewed me. It was taped and I didn't have a problem with that at all. They asked odd questions like , do you know this person as related to JR? They were naming off at least a half of dozen female names and, no I've never heard of that person before and no, I never knew that person before. And they would ask….

Mame: Not related as relatives, but the connection in terms of his life, who they were?

JP: yeah, women involved with John. They were hinting at an affair. I said, Why did you ask me the names of these women? They said, well, it's believed that JR had had quite a few affairs, not only in Atlanta but also here in Boulder. Do you know of anything? I knew, really none. (Laughs). John has such a devious quality about himself there was no way that he would let anybody know about his trysts whether they were real or not. But I found it interesting the line of, the police line of questions and how it went. Then they asked me if I knew about Patsy, if I saw her anger, if I saw her lose her temper and if I knew if she had ever had any relationships here in Boulder, you know questions like, personality type questions.

Mame: did she?

JP: not that I know of, but I have been told by a friend by a friend of mine who is much more deeply involved in this story than I am, that she met with a woman in Denver that had a health club that had played racquet ball with a, um, ah, I'm trying to think he was. Not an account…..

Mame: an investment person?

JP: An investment person. Yeah, and according to her friend that she knows very well, this investment person who is a man had said that he had a relationship with PR that night.

Mame: of the murder?

JP: yeah, that they had come home from the party at the Whites and Patsy had left the home, and had attended a party where they had a fling going.

Mame: do you believe that?

JP: (couldn't understand)

Mame: How do you know?

JP: How do you know? It's not that I don't disbelieve it, it's like…. You know???

Mame: that's the story that Jann Scott sort of threw out, was that was the line of thinking that they had up with that this boyfriend had come back. JP: yeah, well, I'm trying to investigate that. I have to do it very carefully.

Mame: I hope you'll keep us informed.

JP: I will. I have to be very careful, because I'm sure that she under any circumstances, that this man was apparently a father of the children where JonBenet and Burke attended school.

Mame: your school?

JP: their school. At that time they switched from the public school, to I .. Can't remember the name of it. They were a special satellite school.

mame: a magnet school.

JP: A magnet school. Patsy left, Susan Stine left and Roxy left and took their kids with them.

Mame: a magnet school

JP: a magnet school.

Mame: so it was apparently a father,

JP: yeah, who he did not, … he was married, he did not want anyone to know even if, this is true, can you imagine that he is willing to keep his secret, secret?

Mame: yeah, I can't imagine with all the scrutiny that, … but, you don't know.

JP: uh, huh.

Mame: that's fascinating.

JP: yes, it is fascinating.

Mame: But did you hear that there are good sources that you hear this from are sound enough that it's worth pursuing, that it's worth investigating… (couldn't understand)

JP: there is not one leaf that I would leave unturned in this particular case. I try not to have an opinion of something until I've investigated it further. So, I believe that this is something worth following up on. But I want to be real careful, because if this is true, this man is keeping an incredible secret. So, that's .. so I went from, and I think at the point where the more information that I obtained, especially about the ransom note when Tom and I and our relationship started. He sat down with me at length and showed me what his analysis, what his handwriting analysis that he did for Darnay Hoffman.

JP: (at same time) a handwriting analysis for Darnay Hoffman years ago. And he was one of the few handwriting analyzers that was willing to come out very strongly about that Patsy wrote the ransom note. He did not soft step, didn't fudge at all, which I think a lot of them have a tendency to do, but he really strongly believes, and still to this day believes that Patsy was the author of the ransom note. So you know we would have many conversations about it and that sort of was like the icing on the cake for me.

Mame: um, hum.. and when was that in your timeline approximately?

JP: let's see, probably, when the early spring of 98.

Mame: OK, so about a year and half, a year and a quarter after.

JP: yeah,

Mame: OK. Let me mention what I never knew, I sort of picked this up on Dateline NBC that you did. Your personal opinion is there could have been some incest going on.

JP: yeah, the reason why I believe that is, a couple of things. First of all, this ahhh, to see JonBenet prance around in her very sexually revealing outfits and just the way that she presented herself was shocking for me. I felt that there was something more there than that the eye.. it was just ..

Mame: But at the time you saw her prancing you didn't feel it? You didn't (couldn't understand) the activity, but later…. When you look back or…

JP: no, no, the first time I saw those films on television. I didn't see them while she was alive but..

Mame: but you didn't attend the pagents..

JP: right.

Mame: you had no way of knowing.

JP: right, so the first time I actually saw the footage, was right after her death, right after her murder, and I was shocked. I was absolutely shocked. I thought I do ,, this is not the little girl that I knew at all. It just was shocking.

Mame: sort of like a secret life.

JP: yeah, like another person. Actually another person that I didn't even know. The way that she pranced around and smiled and so sexual, adult sexual moves.

Mame: they really were sexual

JP: yeah

Mame: what else does (couldn't understand) daughter, but that is not a typical

JP: yeah, it's not Shirley Temple on the good ship lollipop, this is something very different, very different and there was a red flag, an intuitive flag that was, I, I just thought this is.. There's something wrong here. That was the first thing. Then as I have tried to put the pieces together that why I felt that Patsy, the person Patsy, the mother Patsy could have ever murdered her child, which I believe that she did. What would compel a mother to do this? And the only theory that makes any sense to me, is the theory that she found John sexually abusing JonBenet that night. That to me makes the only sense.

Mame: because you can't picture her then, bedwetting or…..

JP: no, no, no, no, no. The only thing that makes any sense of her behavior, was she quote" lost it".

Mame: and you think she was losing it towards John, not JonBenet.

JP: I think Patsy suspected it for some time. I think it may have started when JonBenet's hair was dyed blonde because that summer Patsy came home with a big ring on her finger and she was different and so was JonBenet. JonBenet's physical appearance.

Phillips is a goof who, like her boyfriend Tom Miller, was a tab "asset". I'm sure when she came calling or wrote to Patsy, Patsy could not be sure of her motives. IMO, Judith was a spy for the tabs who went looking for fodder for a $tory. She's still pissed because she missed a chance to earn a tab check.

If the affair stuff had been true, I think Patsy would have been questioned extensively about it during her interviews with the BPD. I couldn't find anything about it.

Here is what I don't get - Phillips said Patsy's CNN warning "scared" her. But later it is clear Phillips thought Patsy was the killer. If she knew Patsy was the killer or even thought it, then how could she be scared of a "killer on the loose"- implying an intruder?

LHP mentioned a man who phoned the house during the day. I think it is quite possible that Patsy had an admirer/lover. After all, she had been through an illness that had robbed her of so much. Many cancer sufferers talk about feeling unattractive during chemo. Patsy cared about feeling attractive. She mentioned that John cold hardly keep his hands off her after the Gone with the Wind party and she saw fit to mention that he told her she was beautiful before JBR's funeral. She needed that attention and for people to know she got it. IMO, if John was always telling her that she is beautiful or if he could never keep his hands off her, then it wouldn't be worthy of a special mention. Patsy might well have vulnerable to the attentions of another man. WHO KNOWS? Do you think she would tell the world about it afterwards if she considered that it had nothing to do with JonBenet's murder? I doubt it. People can and do keep affairs secret - especially if both parties want to keep it a secret. Patsy's boyfriend was supposed to be a parent at the kids' school - a married man? One who wanted to distance himself from a murder case where everyone close to the Ramseys gets thrown under the bus?

Few people are above having an affair if the circumstances are right. Doctors, lawyers, ministers .... we hear about them all playing away from home. If Patsy needed reassurance that she was attractive and John only gave that reassurance occasionally, and had given her cause to worry about the 'blonde bitch', then WHO KNOWS?

>I'm not particularly fond of JP, but I've never seen or >heard proof that is was "just a rumor". Oh, I forgot, >because you say it was, that's the final word. Tsk, tsk, >how silly of anyone to question any of your statements. You >do know it all, don't you, Jameson?

Once again the Ramseys must prove something is NOT true. Can you prove that it is? Is there anything besides Judith's words that this ever happened? Do you know of any interview with this man? Do you know of any interviews with people who knew this man? Were there any credit card reciepts for strange hotels or gifts? Did anyone ever see them together? Did John ever say that he suspected an affiar? Did he admit that Patsy had ever left without a good explanation or done anything else that might imply an affair? Did Judith ever reveal the mans name? Did she ever reveal the name of the friend that knew the man? Did she ever come up with any proof?

Are you mean spirited or just stupid?

Why would you without any proof whatsoever belive this obvious BS from this woman with an agenda? She's the one who is getting paid to say this crap. Do you think she would make any money talking talking about how boring and ordinary the Ramseys were? John Ramsey-Boxers or Briefs?-big news huh?

Either way, IF this really happened and IF it's related to the case, it's up to the prosecution (if it ever gets to a REAL court) to PROVE that it happened not for the Ramseys to prove that it DIDN'T.

If there was really a another "man" it would have been proven. Just like Amber Frey. There was no man. Judith is a LIAR. She has no credibility and she STINKS. TO believe her would be like believing Clinton.

As for John telling Patsy she was beautiful before the funeral: All i can say to that is: Sure he did! LOL. Use some common sense. It didn't happen.

As for John telling Patsy she was beautiful before the funeral: All i can say to that is: Sure he did! LOL. Use some common sense. It didn't happen.

Oh, the bitter irony of having a Ramsey defender say "use some common sense" and "it didn't happen" when applied to the words of a Ramsey herself!

Patsy, DOI, page 35:

On Sunday, December 29, when I came down the Fernies' stairs in the black dress to go to the hastily arranged memorial service at St. John's Church, John glanced up and said, "You look beautiful." How I appreciated his compliment and his love. I took a deep breath and was finally ready to face the service for my daughter.

Judith Phillips was the one being selfish, in my opinion, to take issue with Patsy telling people there was a killer on the loose. Was Patsy being selfish when she countered Mayor Leslie Durgin's unfair press release?

BOULDER -- Mayor Leslie Durgin appeared at a news conference Friday to defend police and dispel fears about public safety.

"I've been asked if there is widespread fear in Boulder, and the answer is 'no.' There is no widespread fear in Boulder,'' Durgin told the news conference, carried live by Cable News Network.

She said she has not asked police for a briefing on the case.

"People in Boulder have no need to fear there is someone wandering the streets of Boulder looking for someone to attack. Boulder is safe,'' she said. "Boulder is a safe community, and it will continue to be.''

Durgin, who has been mayor since 1989, said the media coverage of the Ramsey slaying is as intense as she's ever seen in Boulder, which has drifted in and out of the national limelight for years because of the city's assortment of brilliant or eclectic residents.

Producers of the crime show America's Most Wanted contacted Boulder police Friday to seek their assistance in covering the story. Major news organizations from throughout the country have sent representatives to the city of 94,000, and newspapers in Great Britain have called city officials and local reporters.

"If this was New York or a community that experiences frequent homicides, it might not be that unusual,'' she said. "It is unusual --thank God -- in this community.''

Man: The day after the funeral the Ramseys appeared on CNN. The introduction reflected thegrowing suspicion.

CNN video: Body found stashed in the basement of her own home. The parents of little JonBenetRamsey are in Atlanta and on the advise of friends they have retained defense lawyers. Earlier today the Ramseys broke their silence and shared their grief with CNN's Brian Cabell in this exclusive interview.

Cabell - Do you believe that someone outside your home...

Patsy: There is a killer on the loose.

John: Absolutely

Patsy: I don't know who it is, I don't know if it is a he or a she, but if I were a resident of Boulder,I would tell my friends to keep, keep hold your babies close to you. There's someone out there.

Man: For the Ramseys, the broadcast was a disaster. It was taken as further evidence that theywere playacting - talking to television rather than the police. Boulder's mayor, Leslie Durgan rejectedPatsy's claim.

Mayor Leslie Durgan: People in Boulder had no need to fear that there is someone wandering thestreets of Boulder, as has been portrayed by some people, looking for young children to attack. Boulder issafe, it's always been a safe community. It continues to be a safe community.

Patsy: Now, I don't know why she said that -- To this day I don't know why she said that but, boy,do I think that's what touched it off and it seemed like after that all the dominos started falling.

John: Plus it was so bizarre because we knew there was a killer out there and how could she saythere wasn't? It made no sense.

Mayor: It was done in large part to allay the fears of the children in our community and to letpeople know that the information that I had at time was that we did not have some crazed personwandering the streets of University Hill.