I've never really been able to find a comfortable setup for Nero in DMC4. Exceed, lock-on and charge shot basically fall into a category of "pick two" which is always a bit frustrating.

Exceed LT, Lock-on on RT, Devil Trigger on LB and Charge Shot on RB. You keep right trigger down almost constantly (except when you want to run) which is comfortable for me since I then have a bit of leverage for charge shot, melee attacks and jumping. Then you just tap the left trigger for exceed. I do kind of like the idea of DT on X, though. I may try that out.

And do you gain style points by switching weapons as well as techniques? I wish the games would explain these things better.

Not exactly. The way DMC games have always scored the player is on variability, so you'll want to switch between at least half a dozen different individual attacks (just 2-3 isn't enough). Stick to spamming Stinger over and over and you'll be lucky to reach a C rating. Switching weapons is just a really simple way of meeting the scoring system's variation requirements because it's impossible for the attacks to overlap. They never really explain it very well, but then they also never really explain that the game is about being stylish in combat; the only incentive you ever get is a bit of red souls in 1-3 and then more proud souls in 4 (which I would hope would inspire people to act better, but it's definitely not explicit).

Someone has put up a list of the alleged level titles, and bosses. Supposedly from one of the guides that came with magazines for reviewers. I have no idea of its authenticity, but gently caress it, we'll know soon enough.

There are also apparently only six bosses. Lilith is not a boss, which fits in with that list the guy who hacked the demo got.

They are:
Demon Hunter
Succubus
Bob Barbas
Mundus' Spawn
MundusVergil

Six bosses...of which three full fights have been shown. And just over 1/2 of your actual game content too. Way to blow your load PR guys.

[e]: Yeah, probably not then. I just sort of mentally divided them into "Seen", "Not-Seen"
I'm still rather surprised at just how much is known. And that we know more than what Capcom could show us. Short of a disc being leaked early, I've never known this much of a game's content to be known way before its release.
VVV

Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at Jan 5, 2013 around 18:40

I'm a bit confused. So Mundus controls the American economy and therefore most likely most of the world or a massive chunk of it. I know this Dante is young and inexperienced but just how is he such a thorn in Mundus's side? He doesn't seem to do anything other than sleaze around. At least in DMC1 you could see that Dante had a reputation as a demon killer, hell even the young Dante in 3 was actually doing something worthwhile instead of being some waste of life club-goer. New Mundus seems kinda stupid now.

Is there another game that's had so much of the content shown before the game even came out?

Like not just "oh some guys hacked the demo and got a bunch of stuff", hasn't half the content come from Ninja Theory themselves? It feels like this entire thing has been a cycle of people complaining that something looks dumb, so NT released something else, repeating until they've shown us almost all the weapons, half the levels, a bunch of cutscenes, and even the loving intro movie.

The game doesn't even look that bad to me. I'll probably get it used eventually once the price drops, but it feels like they're just giving me reasons not to buy it, and have been doing so from the start. They're needlessly antagonistic and lovely, they show off so much of the game that some of the neat stuff like the environment acting against you to make stage obstacles doesn't even register as interesting anymore, and the journalism surrounding the entire game is actively insulting me for disliking the game. The comments about the hair are the worst because they miss the point so loving hard it's unreal, and the repeated "it'll totally be good guys, just give it a chance" were annoying but reasonable, but I feel like I'm being flat out called a dumbass because I dislike the game on a conceptual level, without even including the surrounding drama.

And for the record, if NT's going to claim that they're being innovative with the world itself trying to kill you, I think they should sit down and play a little game that did the same thing called I Wanna Be The Guy.

Like not just "oh some guys hacked the demo and got a bunch of stuff", hasn't half the content come from Ninja Theory themselves? It feels like this entire thing has been a cycle of people complaining that something looks dumb, so NT released something else, repeating until they've shown us almost all the weapons, half the levels, a bunch of cutscenes, and even the loving intro movie.

I think MGR Revengeance is the opposite of this, as I'm pretty sure it was met with similar distaste (though maybe from a smaller amount of people) initially when Platinum took over. I have no idea if people are still hating on that game though, but Konami and Platinum seem to have kept their cool about it; no antagonizing any of the critics, no excessive revealing of content in reaction to any criticism, and only revealing cool snippets every once in a while.

You know what's really annoying about all these magazine reviews? They are loving obnoxious to read. I haven't really read a magazine in years, I mostly stick to blogs and smaller sites like giantbomb (who also happen to have a degree of credibility to their name, so I'm quite interested in their reactions in a the next few weeks). These articles, though, they're just painful to read with all the hosed up layouts and the random sidebars inserted everywhere. It just makes it feel difficult to really get at what the reviewer is actual saying under the veneer of bullshit.

I'm a bit confused. So Mundus controls the American economy and therefore most likely most of the world or a massive chunk of it. I know this Dante is young and inexperienced but just how is he such a thorn in Mundus's side? He doesn't seem to do anything other than sleaze around. At least in DMC1 you could see that Dante had a reputation as a demon killer, hell even the young Dante in 3 was actually doing something worthwhile instead of being some waste of life club-goer. New Mundus seems kinda stupid now.

Write the reviewers name down. If/when this game flops and people hate it this needs to come back to haunt him.

To be fair, the same thing happened in DMC1. Dante was just loving around in his office reading about guns and babes when Trish bursts in and throws a motorcycle at him, then coaxes him into heading off to Mystery Island so Mundus can try to kill him. Why not just leave him? Because bad guys have to be dumb in order to move the plot forward. I guess you could infer some long-term threat to Mundus' influence by all the dead monster heads, but still, Dante knew nothing about the mystery island (was it called Melee Island, or am I crazy?).

And for the record, if NT's going to claim that they're being innovative with the world itself trying to kill you, I think they should sit down and play a little game that did the same thing called I Wanna Be The Guy.

Does the world ever attack you? I know it will shift and warp and pop things out, but are there actual traps of any sort? Maybe you could claim that's oppressive (I don't think it is, frankly, it's a really cool touch in terms of level design) but hardly threatening.

The game doesn't even look that bad to me. I'll probably get it used eventually once the price drops, but it feels like they're just giving me reasons not to buy it, and have been doing so from the start. They're needlessly antagonistic and lovely, they show off so much of the game that some of the neat stuff like the environment acting against you to make stage obstacles doesn't even register as interesting anymore, and the journalism surrounding the entire game is actively insulting me for disliking the game. The comments about the hair are the worst because they miss the point so loving hard it's unreal, and the repeated "it'll totally be good guys, just give it a chance" were annoying but reasonable, but I feel like I'm being flat out called a dumbass because I dislike the game on a conceptual level, without even including the surrounding drama.

To echo this statement, everything about this game is just so offensive but not in the way they intended. It's upsetting to see a franchise and cast of characters you love turned into a bunch of slimeballs. It's upsetting to see all the aggressive tweets and comments from the developers, including the dismissal of legitimate complaints and criticisms with what seems to be a sincere belief that everyone's being superficial and not talking about a more overarching problem i.e. the hair poo poo. The pre-release articles have been intellectually offensive because they're all a whole lot of buzzwords and nothingness framed with comments about how they never were really into the original series in the first place and don't understand why people are upset oh must be the hair thing.

Maybe it's childish but the combination of how they've handled everything from the original E3 trailer onward has been, to repeat, motherfucking offensive. Why they expect fans of the series to just sit back and take this condescending nonsense while they steer it in a direction that nobody wants is incredible. Ninja Theory quickly blew away their goodwill as fast as they could manage in the development of this game. I love the original series, and personally nothing burns me up more than the very condescending attitude that NT/journalists have brought out in force, so I struggle to understand even wanting to play it at all regardless of cost at this point.

I think MGR Revengeance is the opposite of this, as I'm pretty sure it was met with similar distaste (though maybe from a smaller amount of people) initially when Platinum took over. I have no idea if people are still hating on that game though, but Konami and Platinum seem to have kept their cool about it; no antagonizing any of the critics, no excessive revealing of content in reaction to any criticism, and only revealing cool snippets every once in a while.

Some people are still bitching about it, but after seeing the demos and the trailers, most of the others shut up.

Some people are still bitching about it, but after seeing the demos and the trailers, most of the others shut up.

Anyone who is still bitching needs to see the sombrero outfit and the cardboard box disguise with a mini sombrero on it. Platinum Games is loving crazy, but it's pretty much a perfect match for Hideo Kojima's brand of crazy. Ninja Theory are just dicks.

To be fair, the same thing happened in DMC1. Dante was just loving around in his office reading about guns and babes when Trish bursts in and throws a motorcycle at him, then coaxes him into heading off to Mystery Island so Mundus can try to kill him. Why not just leave him? Because bad guys have to be dumb in order to move the plot forward. I guess you could infer some long-term threat to Mundus' influence by all the dead monster heads, but still, Dante knew nothing about the mystery island (was it called Melee Island, or am I crazy?).

Well, to be fair, Dante probably would've found out about it eventually, and may have been strong enough to deal with Mundus even if he managed to open hell up on the island. At least Mundus had his own double agent in there to try and backstab Dante, but that kinda fell apart on him.

Also, I believe it was Mallet Island. (Pronounced ma-lay, or something like that.)

The DmC trailer showed up on GiantBomb, and while the comments are the usual clusterfuck of hair, I-played-only-one-game-this-seems-better, you're-just-biased-because-of-nostalgia, gently caress-the-haters, and their equally-useless counterparts, I noticed that some people consider DMC4 to have ruined Dante's character. Which is bizarre to me, seeing that only DMC2 Dante is the most divergent in the series and is considered the worse for it. Every other game has Dante acting like the irreverent-cocky-badass that he is except for moments in DMC1 & 3 where he gets understandably serious; what's so special about DMC4 that Dante in there is "ruined"? He already beat not-Satan, I'm pretty sure there's nothing in the game he needs to take seriously.

DMC4 Dante was my favourite characterisation of him so far, the perfect blend between being cocky/arrogant while not actually being an rear end in a top hat. You just knew in DMC4 that he was all "I got this poo poo "

It's not like he was going around Fortuna being a minor inconvenience to people enjoying their energy drinks, although I guess you could count shooting the pope as an inconvenience.

DMC4 Dante was my favourite characterisation of him so far, the perfect blend between being cocky/arrogant while not actually being an rear end in a top hat. You just knew in DMC4 that he was all "I got this poo poo "

It's not like he was going around Fortuna being a minor inconvenience to people enjoying their energy drinks, although I guess you could count shooting the pope as an inconvenience.

It's not like he was going around Fortuna being a minor inconvenience to people enjoying their energy drinks, although I guess you could count shooting the pope as an inconvenience.

Actually, I found those two scenes to be fairly similar. In DMC4 Dante storms the cathedral and shoots the pope in the face and brutally murders a bunch of dudes, but it turns out they were all demons and the pope is a madman. In DmC Dante slaps the drink out of a girl's hands, but it's clearly this evil poo poo that you wouldn't want a child drinking.

Actually, I found those two scenes to be fairly similar. In DMC4 Dante storms the cathedral and shoots the pope in the face and brutally murders a bunch of dudes, but it turns out they were all demons and the pope is a madman. In DmC Dante slaps the drink out of a girl's hands, but it's clearly this evil poo poo that you wouldn't want a child drinking.

Real Dante would have stealthily swapped it with a fresh, crisp glass of mountain spring water.

Actually, I found those two scenes to be fairly similar. In DMC4 Dante storms the cathedral and shoots the pope in the face and brutally murders a bunch of dudes, but it turns out they were all demons and the pope is a madman. In DmC Dante slaps the drink out of a girl's hands, but it's clearly this evil poo poo that you wouldn't want a child drinking.

DMC4 Dante was my favourite characterisation of him so far, the perfect blend between being cocky/arrogant while not actually being an rear end in a top hat. You just knew in DMC4 that he was all "I got this poo poo "

It's not like he was going around Fortuna being a minor inconvenience to people enjoying their energy drinks, although I guess you could count shooting the pope as an inconvenience.

I'm a bit confused. So Mundus controls the American economy and therefore most likely most of the world or a massive chunk of it. I know this Dante is young and inexperienced but just how is he such a thorn in Mundus's side?

What I find odd, is that Mundus apparently now pretty much owns the world - his eyes and agents are everywhere, manipulating people to farm their souls (or whatever)...why make the demons a secret? They're in total control. It's not like they can do anything to him.

That's the reason he's after Dante, because the fanfiction offspring of a demon and angel are the only thing capable of defeating him (was it prophesied? I forget). Despite the fact that he should know that Sparda had twin sons (since you, know, he's meant to have cameras and eyes and things everywhere), he's either really dense and only knows about the existance of Dante, but not his location...somehow...or Vergil is working for him and on his side.

"If you don't [whatever it was - probably pay him or something] I'll put the blame on you for the recession. Thank you Mister President."

"Now you're making the world your bitch, how about screwing this bitch (about herself)"

Who reviews a script with these lines in it and says, "Yeah that's good, start taping."? Would it be correct to say that the writing so far seems really puerile? Like a good chunk of the writing seems to operate on a child's (or maybe a teenager's) understanding of the world?

I mean, the only good thing I can say about DmC is that I kinda like the "They Live" vibe they have going with the demons controlling society. Hell, they outright copy the whole subliminal billboard thing (at least, I remember a video showing posters and billboards changing to reveal stuff like CONSUME, OBEY, etc.).

drat it, now I want a "Put on the drat sunglasses" scene between Virgil and Dante.

I mean, the only good thing I can say about DmC is that I kinda like the "They Live" vibe they have going with the demons controlling society. Hell, they outright copy the whole subliminal billboard thing (at least, I remember a video showing posters and billboards changing to reveal stuff like CONSUME, OBEY, etc.).

drat it, now I want a "Put on the drat sunglasses" scene between Virgil and Dante.

I'm not sure whether NT not being able to coax decent acting from their voice actors and They Live having Rowdy Roddy Piper is a fair comparison.

A DMC-themed dumpster fight scene would be badass as hell though. Instead of Keith David cold-clocking Piper while the latter is trying to apologize for knocking him on his rear end, it's Dante Stinger-ing Vergil into a building while he rants about MIGHT CONTROLS EVERYTHING.

Good God that intro was dumb. How the hell could anyone write Lilith's "flirty" dialogue and think that it could be taken seriously. Ninja Theory think they're the poo poo when it comes to story-telling, but drat if they can't back that poo poo up. It's just the least believable or interesting dialogue possible. It's kitschy, it's bad and it lacks any kind of self-awareness (A bit like Tameem Antonaides ). Ninja Theory really can't write, but somehow they've got it into their head that they're the second coming of James Joyce and Hunter S. Thompson.

The other issue is that the plot is kinda flawed at a core level. They want the world to be introduced to the player through the player character, which is perfectly fine. Most games do use their main character as an outsider in order to inform the player of the world through direct exposition. However, because Ninja Theory have set up their story as having the main antagonist perceive the protagonist as a threat as being a catalyst for the action of the plot, Dante's uninvolvement with the world doesn't make much sense. Either Dante is an outsider who is unaware of the demon world and it's machinations, or he's a credible threat to Mundus. Ninja Theory wants to have its cake and eat it too.

The fact of the matter is that Ninja Theory can't write worth a drat and that has been their central marketing point. From a gameplay, and probably a story, standpoint DmC: Devil may Cry will probably be no worse than Dante's Inferno; however it's selling itself as "the darker and sexier game for the mature and discerning gamer, with truly Shakespearian writing" and, on that count, it's an absolute pisser of a story made by cocksure wankers.

tl;dr: Ninja Theory reap what they sow when claiming to be auteur game design visionaries.

Who reviews a script with these lines in it and says, "Yeah that's good, start taping."? Would it be correct to say that the writing so far seems really puerile? Like a good chunk of the writing seems to operate on a child's (or maybe a teenager's) understanding of the world?

It's actually worse than that. That was just my paraphrase because Capcom took down the video, and I couldn't remember the exact lines. Here they are by the way:

Mundus: (On the phone) "-Yes, by close of trading Friday. No, you can't have more time. you know the terms, you know the concequences. *Laughs* No, this is not a veiled threat - this is a direct one. Should you fail to comply, the collapse of the economy will be on your head. I will make sure you are stripped of power, shamed, and hated. Is that clear enough for you? Friday, it is then! You have a good night, Mister President.

Lilith: "So, did you get it my darling?"

M: "Over a trillion!"

L: "Oh!"

M: "Soon I will own everything worth owning. I will control the world...through debt. I have absolute power.

L: "The world is, at last, your bitch, as am I. Nothing left but to grab it by the hair bend it over and fu-"

Then Mundus gets all pouty about Dante.

The writing in general is so awkward, and fanfictiony, but Lilith's "World is a bitch" line is really hilariously awful. Some of these lines are even more funny than "Ishouldhavebeentheoneto - FILL YOUR DARK SOUL WITH LIIIIGHT!".

---

Remember that Italian 7.5 review? It seems to have vanished, BTW. I can't find it anywhere on the site. The page brings up a 404, and it doesn't seem to be anywhere on their review list. It's strange, unless I'm being retarded and it's just hiding somewhere.
---

I still fail to comprehend why this game is getting this much positive attention from the media.
Hate to put my on, but are the main sources of praise towards DmC and NT places that normally get accused of paid reviews? We all know that there have been some cases of obviously paid reviews, or at least reviews that were positive to keep the developers, who support the sites with content, happy.

That comparison to Bayonetta was loving brutal. I keep trying to find the right words to describe just how perplexing this poo poo is. Do they just flat out lie about what they think of the game? Are they incapable of understanding what makes DMC and Bayonetta awesome, and that DmC is being mediocre at best in trying to emulate them?

Little things like this are what this game is missing. DMC always has had little touches in the cut scenes that at least gave you a smirk if you noticed and gave the characters more character instead of everybody being one note cardboard boxes.

I wish people would stop posting unmarked spoilers. It doesn't matter if it's lovely or not. Some of us want to discuss the DMC games AND experience the NT writing in all its glory by ourselves AFTER the game's out.

While there is almost certainly some kind of publisher/PR pressure going on here, there probably isn't actual money being slid under a table here. There are a lot of reasons why most reviews would come out in favor of DmC.

- Game Reviewers generally have a short amount of time to actually play a game, and often just run through it once on normal - games in the DMC/Bayonetta genre require a lot of practice and mastery building before their true depth is revealed, which is something most reviewers simply don't have the time for. Unless the publication has a specific 'third-person action game' role than the reviewer is likely going to be coming in from the perspective of a complete newcomer to that style of gameplay. Accessible trash is always going to rate higher than buried gold when reviewers only ever have time to scrape the surface.

- A lot of gaming reviews try to be objective in a really dumb way. Look at the GameMasterUK breakdown, it's complete loving nonsense. How are 'Lifespan' and 'Gameplay' separate at all in this genre? Why is there no rating is story/narrative/how loving annoying the characters and dialogue is? In fact, why are there quality bars that loving fill up to the perfect game even a thing? Add to the fact that the reviewer (a real person who played this game) is trying to be the anonymous voice for a publication and you have a recipe for inane writing.

- Most professional game reviewers simply have aggressively mainstream taste in video games, mostly because the ones that don't eventually get 'Gerstmanned out'. It's entirely possible that there is absolutely no underhanded pressure from CapCom and that the people who have reviewed this game so far simply really enjoy shallow spectacle-action games that use the word gently caress a lot.

edit: Of course the revelation that a lot of games journalism is insipid as gently caress isn't really that stunning but the fact that this juvenile and incredibly flawed game is able to easily achieve strong reviews while making GBS threads on the old fans of the franchise just kind of puts that in a starker relief.

I wish people would stop posting unmarked spoilers. It doesn't matter if it's lovely or not. Some of us want to discuss the DMC games AND experience the NT writing in all its glory by ourselves AFTER the game's out.

But everything has been correctly spoilered when was necessary and the other things are part of the PR for the game?

I wonder if they tried to get Andy Serkis involved with this game. He was the best thing about the last two - and was heavily involved in the writing and direction.

But seeing as he's actually competent he probably took one look at it and was like "gently caress this" and took off.

A lot, and I do mean a lot, of games journalists are rabid fans that really want to actually be making games. So they modulate based on that, especially if they know the people making the game or have lots of contact with people/want interviews.
They also generally have no idea how to actually be a critic and look at a game with an eye towards what is good and what is bad, etc. What is this game trying to do? Is that a good goal? Does it achieve it? Why not? Those types of questions are hard, and almost no games journalist is equipped or capable of answering them.

I wish people would stop posting unmarked spoilers. It doesn't matter if it's lovely or not. Some of us want to discuss the DMC games AND experience the NT writing in all its glory by ourselves AFTER the game's out.

That dialogue's the first thing you hear ingame. And it was released via game "journalists", until Capcom wanted to put the foot down and pulled the video. The only new bit of that is the "make your world your bitch", and him staring glumly off into the distance (which makes it bizarre they choose to clamp down on that, when we've already seen large chunks of it and it otherwise has no bearing on anything). The rest was shown in Capcom promotional trailers.
The fuckers were also stupid enough to reveal all but two of the bosses, and all the weapons and the first half of the game. In advertising, and other promotional poo poo. They even managed to spoil the game's ending. In their promotional stuff. I'd say that's fair game to talk about that stuff without spoilers (not the ending specifics, obviously).

And that's without the hacks, the NDA leak or the achivement list.

I will spoiler tag those speculative level titles though.

[e2]: Sorry for my passive-agressive bullshit, Renoistic.

[e]: It kinda needs its own thread really. :/
VVV

Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at Jan 5, 2013 around 23:46

I think that wanting to avoid the PR hype campaign for a game is valid, especially in this case where half the drat game (or more) has already been shown. And responding to these kinds of requests by REPEATING the information again is sort of dickish.