Breaking the chains, winning the games, and saving Western Civilization.

Wednesday, December 17, 2014

Porn IS better than the average woman

I don't see what is so surprising about this study, let alone shocking. Women, on average, have gotten worse since 1970 in almost every possible way. Porn has gotten considerably better. Throw in the relative costs involved, and frankly, it's pretty damn hard to make any sort of rational secular case for women, let alone marriage, over porn, video games, and sports.

Pornography is replacing the desire among
young men for marriage, according to a new study that finds males are
chasing “low-cost sexual gratification” on the web over a wife and
family. “Traditionally, one of the reasons to enter
into a marriage was sexual gratification. But as options for sexual
gratification outside of marriage have grown, the need for a marriage to
serve this function is diminishing,” said the report....

Researchers analyzed data from 1,512 surveys completed by American men aged 18-35 between 2000-2004. What they found is that porn use makes marriage unappealing. The study is titled: “Are Pornography and Marriage Substitutes for Young Men?”

The researchers were interested in how declining marriage rates impact society and the economy. They said that “stable marriages create substantial welfare improvements for society, especially to the degree that marital stability produces high-quality children.”

Porn use, they said, can be credited with cutting the marriage rate. They cited statistics showing that men 25-34 are six times less likely to be married than the same age group was in 1970. They also found that divorce rates are twice what they were in 1950.

Women still have a tendency to think they're the only game in town and behave accordingly. But they're not. Men have always felt the call of the wild, but the combination of a good woman and societal pressure tended to overwhelm that. But when marriage increasingly looks like not having sex with an obese bitch who can rob you at any time, it's little wonder that more young men are opting for doing whatever they hell they want all the time for the rest of their lives instead.

It's idiotic to claim that porn is the problem. It's not the problem, it is the suboptimal solution to the real problem. The problem is that far too many women have been raised in a manner that renders them unattractive to the opposite sex and essentially unmarriageable. The boys always go where the attractive girls are. If they can't be bothered, that means the girls are insufficiently attractive.

44 comments:

The side of this issue that continues to bother me is the difference between what's rational for an individual man to pursue (often that means going his own way), and what's best for society and for the future.

I don't like the Galt-inspired theory that if men go on strike and society falls apart, some better thing will arise from the ashes -- because I think there will be a huge amount of government propped up nonsense that will manage to limp along for quite some time before it finally falls apart.

There are now loads of webcam girls -- girls who will chat with you and perform sexually over a webcam, for money -- and many of them aren't all that hot. But they're pleasant and willing, because that's how they get paid. A guy who's willing to pay to chat with a woman and watch her play with herself, would almost certainly prefer the real thing that he could touch in his home -- assuming she was at least somewhere in the same ballpark of pleasantness and willingness. Guys resort to the online substitute because they can't (or it seems that they can't) get that for real.

1. "But when marriage increasingly looks like not having sex with an obese bitch who can rob you at any time, it's little wonder that more young men are opting for doing whatever they hell they want all the time for the rest of their lives instead." Nice kill shot, Vox. That's gonna leave a mark.

2.. “stable marriages create substantial welfare improvements for society, especially to the degree that marital stability produces high-quality children.”Yet, not a word in the comments from the "Heroic Single MothersTM" and their enablers. Can you feel ze schadenfreude?

swift,I think "yes" and "no." I think women are in direct competition with any of men's non-work activities. Porn is just one of them. Games, paintball, other women, etc. are others.

They've put up substantial legal, financial, and personal obstacles for men to climb and then wonder why those men stop putting in the effort to scale the mountain just to be tossed down the other side.

If you think about the effort the 80% we often talk about have to put in just for a few moments of connection with a woman (not even just sexual connection, but definitely more than "friend"), it's a lot of labor with small chance of payoff. Repeat the pattern a few times and guys will just "check out."

@OwenPorn is a problem. It's just not the biggest problem facing marriage.

I think the real problem with porn is we expect the average man to wait a decade or more in a porn and promiscuity soaked society before he marries, yet we expect this not to influence his motivation both to marry and to prepare to take on the role of a provider (make himself marriageable).

Personally I'm not convinced that men are really "on strike" with regard to marriage. I would bet that nearly all men with middle class backgrounds still want to marry, even with the lower quality of available brides. What I think we are seeing instead is young men not feeling as strong a need to prepare for the role of provider. This is what should frighten the women on the carousel, because a man without good career prospects isn't bluffing, so no amount of sexual enticement can change the situation. While she is screwing around with HarlyMcBadboy, what does she think her would-be steady eddy is doing? Is he finishing college and busting his tail up the corporate ladder so he can wife her up once she is ready? Or is he working just hard enough to buy video games and surf porn in his mother's basement? Because of momentum, most men from middle class families are probably still preparing to be a provider, but are they working as hard as they would have in the past?

Also, even a 10% reduction in quality beta providers means all women suddenly find themselves competing for the shrinking supply of suitable husbands. In a sense it is like musical chairs, where pulling only one chair out leaves everyone scrambling to try to get a seat.

The problem is that far too many women have been raised in a manner that renders them unattractive to the opposite sex...

I first saw this trend developing in 2000, back when girls were basically wearing their thongs above their waistlines. Most of the girls who adopted that look, back then could carry it off.

However there were quite few who could not, more than there should have been The thing is, there have always been girls who are oblivious about their looks and pursue fashion that they shouldn't. It was always a predictably small and sad number.

However that crop of girls weren't unaware of the fact that they were too fat calling attention to their bulging dewlaps like that.

They just didn't care anymore.

That was so weird to me because girls had always cared about their looks before that.

I've finally come to understand what happened. These girls had no need for a man. Now, by that I don't mean they had no desire for a man, they did. But that they genuinely had no need. The government would provide the Life of Julia for these girls and they knew it. Uncle Sam cuckolded an entire generation of men and has kept doing it since then.

I think this puts the cart before the horse. Women are deliberately delaying marriage as long as they think they can get away with it and still have a family. Since sex follows the 80/20 rule, 80% of the guys out there are spending their 20s with Rosie Palm and her five sisters. Wouldn't matter if women were all goddesses - if you can't land one porn is what you've got left.

Either:1. They don't think they're capable of being Harley.2. They think Harley is a bad guy, so they wouldn't want to be him even if it would get them chicks.

Their main mistake is thinking that Game means being the worst kind of Dark Triad dirtbag. As if working on your body language and applying some cockiness around women, you're suddenly going to turn into Charles Manson, accumulating a flock of teenage groupies and dominating and brainwashing them until they'll kill for you.

Cail - They think Harley is a bad guy, so they wouldn't want to be him even if it would get them chicks.

Furthermore, I don't get why any man would trust a female with uncommitted sex? Why would a man pump and dump (or whatever you call it) without fear of being tarred and feathered - i.e., accused of rape or sued for paternity?

Using myself as an example, I know I can "bag" a woman or two for sex. It's not that difficult. I know; I've done it. And women can be pretty stupid, especially after you turn them on physically and mentally.

But what's the point? A few orgasms?

Porn is like turkey bacon. It's a poor substitute for the real thing but it's not bad for what it is. And yes, watching is sinful but I'd rather sin by wanking than fornicate with whores I don't care about past my next emission. Adding the possibility of adding to the whordes (sic) of retarded bastards out there and it's just not worth it.

Every once in a while I feel as though I should get back out there and find a wife but man there are a lot of ugly women out there. And I'm not talking about their faces and/or bodies, even though I find fat and tattoos repulsive.

Plus, the thought of trying to reform a whore does not even appeal to me. I think I'd be tempted to disappear a bitch if she even talked about taking my children from me.

I wish there could be some accurate stats, but I'm curious as to how ubiquitously available porn is impacting prostitution. My guess is that simple lethargy, frugality and really pragmatism make porn much more feasible than pros.

If you want to add a moral component to it, a venial sin is preferable than banging whore.

Because occasionally Harley Mc Badboy gets his ass kicked. There are a lot of guys who aren't willing to take that chance. And, like Cail said, a bunch who think Harley deserves it and don't want to be that guy.

@dalrock

I think the real problem with porn is we expect the average man to wait a decade or more in a porn and promiscuity soaked society before he marries,

I think the bigger problem is women expecting to wait a decade or more in a promiscuity soaked society before marriage. A 20 year old woman with a decent personality, low n-count and something that could legitimately be called a waist can compete just fine with porn. A 30 year old shrew with more hookups than a KOA campground can't quite. A guy's 20's aren't really all that important to "preparing to be a provide" - assuming he doesn't become a methhead or habitual criminal. Most guys will do just fine in their 20's as a natural result of wanting more for themselves. It's the 30-ish time frame (28-35 or so) that's the make-or-break window. That's when a guy moves beyond being "youg kid with potential" to either "rising star" or "washout". That's when he needs an incentive to bust his butt.

Porn is like a pressure relief valve in marriages today. The husband doesn't want to cheat on his wife for multiple reasons but needs some kind of relief from the sex drive. Porn is a ready made solution.

God bless Japan. Not only do they make the best porn out there but they put it in games that makes jerking off almost seem like an accomplishment. Once they get those sexbots rolling off the line, it's game over. Or will it be game on?

Rollo, Bastiat has written some on the downward pressure on strippers and hookers posed by ubiquitous porn. He's noted that it's something of a race to the bottom, and described the intense competition at the margin in strip clubs between the girls who do, and do not, provide 'extras.'

***

I certainly second the sentiments that porn is competition to women, like alfalfa is competition to steak. (It should be no competition at all.) But most women don't even have the social and sexual skills to compete with cartoon-like sex videos. More significantly, subordinating their sense of primacy in order to even consider what a man is looking for in a mate is politically and culturally shamed by other women and male feminists.

Ironically, I was talking about this subject with a woman friend last night. I would describe her as a fairly accomplished SIW, third wave feminist (outwardly at least), sex pozzie with some pretty serious promiscuity in her past. At the same time she has spent a lot of years in some very hot and dirty places, being protected by uber-alphas. (Of course, back in DC she doesn't associate with Blackwater types, tut tut.) So she has an appetite for alpha, despite the Pajama Boy ethos of her stateside office. From time to time, accordingly, one can see her software fail and endlessly loop.

Anyway, the conversation was interesting for the naivete she revealed. She asked me to take her to a strip joint; I said sure, but mentioned I really just go once a year to drink and converse with the girls, and that conversation per se was a major draw for men into the demi-monde. (I have read that a lot of hookers make this central to their repeat customers.) Others have noted this same dynamic with web cam girls, who have regulars and develop relationships with them; when I worked in Tokyo I had a regular girl at a hostess bar (these were faux wives, the clubs are rigorously chaste). So then we transitioned to the inevitable "but then what do men want and what about porn?"

I said, Sure, men have a polygamous side that society militates against, but most guys I know just want some fucking stability, kindness, respect and a lot of the hurly burly ... *at home.* We've now reach a state in our social declination where it a) doesn't occur to women that men like to have, need conversations with their lovers; and b) offering kindness, respect and some strange in the marital bed is an alien concept, some vestigial trope from the bad old days of patriarchal dom/sub relations between lovers.

I had to laugh. I asked her, Don't you and all your girlfriends want to find a guy to lockdown eventually? ("Yes.") So you want him to behave monogamously, right? ("Yes.") Have you considered how easy it is to monopolize a man sexually? ("Uhhhhh.") QED, sister, that's one or two reasons right there that porn exists.

***

I think the pornification of society, combined with the internet, also has normalized a new kind of hooker, the 'straight' or mainstream woman who dabbles in sex-for-hire on the side. They can do so easily and independently now. I have one MGTOW friend who sees a woman regularly, and that woman has an office job, a child and an otherwise 'normal' life. She just screws for hire once a week to top off her income line. This sort of free-lancer and her customers are enabled by the net. As sexual deviancy is dumbed down and the taxonomy of sex workers and sex markets blur, we'll probably see more transactional sex go mainstream.

@ Cail CorishevFurthermore, I don't get why any man would trust a female with uncommitted sex?

Because sex feels really, really good. Was that a trick question?

More like because any sex in Western culture is in fact uncommitted due to our legal definition of marriage...

@ Vox DayI agree with Dalrock and Cail Corishev. Vox, your quoted source cites a correlation, which we all know does not imply causation. My opinion is that it's the same diseased view of sex that causes both.

Since the sexual revolution, the focus of sex has been redefined from the marital bond and children to individual pleasure. This is what has encouraged the shift away from thinking about the other, and more towards one's own feelings. Women's upbringing in this regard is very much at fault for turning them into fat, uncouth hags, but their choices are what turns the tide in this case. Remember, men in our culture are bombarded with messages to get married and settle down, many have that goal still. What's really driving this epidemic is that women are saying "no" to marriage.

This just applies to lesser quality men. High quality men have zero problem finding desirable women. Desirable women have zero problem finding high quality men. Any guy who substitutes porn for a woman should look in the mirror, figure out what he is doing wrong, and fix it. I don't judge them, but seriously, porn over a high class bitch? This isn't rocket science.

Leave it to insanity to completely miss the point. It's not that porn is naturally better than women, it's that women and family law have created a situation where women and marriage are simply high risk low benefit. My wife even wonders how miserable some of her friend's husband's are.

If the legal and social climate was as bad for women as it is for men, I'd definitely tell my daughter's to be very wary of men.

Porn > American women. It's cheaper, safer and a disease free alternative to toxic American bitches who suffer from low fertility and a toxic attitude to boot. Did I mention their love for false rape charges, intoxication and fornicating with the Alpha male of the month? The only fool is the American guy chasing after the American whore who has drained 1,000 cocks in her midst. I'll take porn over nasty leftovers every day of the week. lol

Well, it is true that some men are satisfied to Free Porn Videos than to have sex with an average woman. those porn videos for them are more arousal and they can picture out the their prefer sex fantasy in life.

Why in the world did they use data from over a decade ago? "Porn" in the early 2000s was low-res crap. If even THAT stuff was better than women, then porn of 2015 and beyond will REALLY drive the marriage rate down ;)