Post by RichterB on Jul 9, 2018 14:10:19 GMT -6

Even though I noted this in the general feedback, I haven't seen a dedicated thread to discussing this yet, and I think it's important to gather up some thoughts on this issue. (I elaborated more here than previously with images.) It's not the end of the world, but it's something that has nonetheless bothered me quite a bit since the 2016 demo. I don't know if it's a shader issue or a conscious decision made to let the player know where they are at all times, but when you press Miriam against any wall, her shadow/character outline superimposes itself through the wall. This happens with a lot of objects, even tiny ones on the ground.

Similarly, there is this strange effect when Johannes runs by Miriam in one of their encounters.

It also happens often when interacting with platforms, and if my eyes didn't deceive me, that makes it look sometimes like you're jumping from behind to get on platforms rather than jumping up onto the platform itself, when some platforms are flush against the background and you couldn't technically be jumping from behind them. This is addressed in the Minerva by having some gaps suggested in the wood, but it doesn't always play out that way. And even so, the gaps are so small, I'm not sure you need to be able to see one's shadow/outline in those situations.

I really like the inclusion of shadows in this game, but this particular effect feels awkward and might be a bigger turn-off to people new to IGAvanias who expect a certain consistency to effects in a 2.5D game. Then again, since I haven't played with it off, I don't know if it is necessary to some extent. Perhaps the perspective makes it a requirement? I'm not convinced of that. The optical illusion of platforming onto objects, whether in front or from behind, has been done seamlessly without shadows as far back as the NES even with an angled perspective. (Ninja Gaiden NES comes to mind, because it has that angled perspective to its platforms and has you moving between the background and foreground to some extent by a trick of the eye.)

I saw Jogur suggest that there could be a glowing outline that appears if you take too long to exit a space where your character's view is occluded. Yän mentioned a new animation to press against walls when Miriam is obstructed, and maybe that animation could circumvent the need for the player's shadow to pass through the wall like a ghost's. It's a video game at the end of the day, so its own rules apply, but the 3D can sometimes create these confusing situations.

Just some thoughts. Again, it's not the end of the world, but I'm wondering if this could be improved upon with some simple tweaks, or if it's baked deeply into the current build's visuals.

Post by Yän on Jul 9, 2018 16:22:03 GMT -6

I fully agree with this post. I'd rather play without the shadow. It seems ok to sometimes have your character obstructed partially or briefly.

I also like Jogur's idea. The mockup Jogur did looked way better than what's currently in the game.

Another way to achieve more consistency while potentially avoiding clipping meshes and always showing your character would be to use the same trick but instead of just showing a solid color in the obstructed space, render the character normally. Basically this would let us see Miriam in front of platforms she passes through and walls she clips into due to some sort of attack (I still hope that running against walls won't be a thing in the final version). When foreground objects or other characters obstruct Miriam, I think she should not be rendered through or in front of them. Just render the foreground object. It's okay not to see 100% of the character at all times.

Post by JeffCross on Jul 10, 2018 10:46:32 GMT -6

yes, I agree, the shadows behind the wall look horrible I just hope this is not a permanent thing... but seeing it this demo I am not as hopeful as I was before... I don't know why but it somehow looks tacky to me.

There should have been a poll to show how many people find this shadow a blemish on an otherwise awesome looking game.

Post by CastleDan on Jul 10, 2018 14:52:34 GMT -6

Please get rid of it or feature a toggle. I'm trying to admire the scrolling effects and nothing takes me out of it more then passing by a statue seeing my shadow showing up over it. I want to see the statue block my character so i feel immersed in the game's environments. Hell things like platforms seems TOTALLY unnecessary. You're dropping down a platform why would you need to see your character? All of these actions takes a simple move of the analog stick to see your character. If the statue took up the whole screen and you had to move behind it that's one thing but none of this stuff lasts long enough for it to matter.

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