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Originally posted by mmoDADFrom what I've read, TESO isn't that much different from SWTOR. I won't be surprised if it ends up being another post-WoW disappointment.

How can people talk complete bs like its fact?

How is a game with 3 faction large scale world pvp, realtime combat, none restrictive classes, limited skill slots, no enemy tagging etc, said to be "not that much different from SWTOR"?

I can understand people getting worried over megaservers, phasing and areas being exclusive to faction, but making out its just going to be a generic wow cclone like tor was when that clearly isnt the case is boggling to me

It's not entirely bullshit, and the reason I say that specifically in regards to the Star Wars game is the information that's been released in regards to developers wanting to create another story driven questing system. When people hear or read that, and then see information about a modified version of the hero engine, it's really hard not to be reminded of that terrible, terrible thing that was done which we're not supposed to talk about, but some of us still are anyway (you know what I mean).

Despite what you've mentioned, that there's going to be three faction PvP (restricted to a centralized location on the map), real time combat without enemy tagging (which isn't entirely true itself, tab targetting received a visual upgrade), and a few other things that might actually differentiate TES from other MMO's in a miniscule-enough-it-doen't-even-matter sort of way, I can't really blame people for justifying their lack of enthusiasm by calling it something which it may or may not actually be.

If story content is the only reason you call is a swtor clone then gw2 is also a swtor clone as is tsw and as will be many more mmo's to come, because story isnt a bad thing in and of itselfe

The game ISNT using the hero engine, or even a heavily modified version of it, theyre using an engine they created specifically for this game, they only licensed the hero engine so they could start designing the game while their engine wasnt ready (much like bioware used the aurora to start building swtor before they had an mmo engine to use)

Like I say if 3 faction pvp, real time combat, deep progression, no tagging etc etc etc doesnt make it majorly different from swtor/wow then nothing willl because the only thing that seems like swtor is that there is a story (which lets be honest all mmos have a story) and its voiced, and if thats the only thing that you can use to claim "swtor clone" then 99% of all single games since the 90's are swtor clones and most theme park mmo's moving forward will be too

It doesn't, sorry, and like I already stated, the three faction PvP is tied to a centralized, hub-like location on the map, the "deep progression" you're talking about is another long line of questing stories, and the real time combat is still just a glorified tab targetting system.

So, no, it isn't different enough. It's the same amount of bullshit developers have been creating for over ten years in the genre, with some new added gimmicks that no one except a few uniformed individuals, who I might add enjoy detailing these features in such a light they almost sound interesting, are going to find fulfilling beyond a month to three. And, yes, they have been using the hero engine, a heavily modified version they themselves have been creating, using it much like a white board, as described by Joystiq.

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Originally posted by Lawlmonster

It doesn't, sorry, and like I already stated, the three faction PvP is tied to a centralized, hub-like location on the map, the "deep progression" you're talking about is another long line of questing stories, and the real time combat is still just a glorified tab targetting system.

So, no, it isn't different enough. It's the same amount of bullshit developers have been creating for over ten years in the genre, with some new added gimmicks that no one except a few uniformed individuals, who I might add enjoy detailing these features in such a light they almost sound interesting, are going to find fulfilling beyond a month to three. And, yes, they have been using the hero engine, a heavily modified version they themselves have been creating, using it much like a white board, as described by Joystiq.

How is progression just another long line of questing stories? Its skill based. the more you use a skill/weapon/armor type the more that skill/weapon/armor type levels up unlocking new perks and evolving skills into a new version of that skill, and how is having to aim in order to hit anythoing tab targeting? It's not, in fact it was said in the hands on that at the moment you cant even swing and miss unless you have something in your reticle (altho you will be able in the finished version), so no its not tab targeting, you can highlight targets with tab but that will be to call out targets etc not for combat

And no the hero engine isnt being used in the game in ANY form, it was ONLY used while the built their own engine from scratch, the "whiteboard" line was saying exactly what i said regarding bioware using aurora

"You licensed HeroEngine a long time ago. What role did the Hero Engine play in the development of ESO?

We started ZeniMax Online from scratch, with no employees and no technology. We had to build everything ourselves. It takes a long time to write game engines, especially MMO engines, which are inherently more complicated than typical single-player ones. So, we decided to license the HeroEngine to give us a headstart. It was a useful tool for us to use to prototype areas and game design concepts, and it provided us the ability to get art into the game that was visible, so we could work on the game’s art style. Our plan is for ESO to be a world class MMO, with the most advanced social features found in any MMO to date – so while we were prototyping the game on HeroEngine, we were simultaneously developing our own client, server, and messaging layer that were specifically designed with ESO in mind. Think of HeroEngine as a whiteboard for us – a great tool to get some ideas in the game and start looking at them while the production engine was in development."

Like i say only used so they could start working on the game before they develope their own engine from scratch

edit: Another quote from the same interview

"When you control the technical platform that you are developing on – by writing it yourself – you get to make all the decisions, and ensure that all features are developed with your game in mind. This makes things tighter and more stable."

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I personally don't plan to even consider purchasing this title until at least three months have passed after it's launched, after the hype has died down, the content locusts have run amok and moved on, and the player base stablises. Then I'll look at the reviews and decide if it's worth trying. Hopefully they have a 10-14 day free trial. After the let downs that were AoC, STO, and SWTOR I'm not about to throw my money away again.

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I am NOT going to preorder any other game until i play the trial.

I lost so much money in the last years preordering crap games... but i've learn something: if the game have something to hide, will not have a free trial. All solid games offer a free trial before buy. Now judge for yourself.

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Originally posted by deakon

We started ZeniMax Online from scratch, with no employees and no technology. We had to build everything ourselves. It takes a long time to write game engines, especially MMO engines, which are inherently more complicated than typical single-player ones. So, we decided to license the HeroEngine to give us a headstart. It was a useful tool for us to use to prototype areas and game design concepts, and it provided us the ability to get art into the game that was visible, so we could work on the game’s art style. Our plan is for ESO to be a world class MMO, with the most advanced social features found in any MMO to date – so while we were prototyping the game on HeroEngine, we were simultaneously developing our own client, server, and messaging layer that were specifically designed with ESO in mind. Think of HeroEngine as a whiteboard for us – a great tool to get some ideas in the game and start looking at them while the production engine was in development."

I call bullshit on this so much, why would you licence a redundant engine, Program and create incompatible assets to be used in your "Real" engine?

A better question would be why zenimax, the parent company of bethesda didnt use the gamebyro engine which they already own to "prototype" their ideas?

No! my speculative vision of the truth is they were on board with the hero engine until they got the massive negative feedback and stigma that came from the swtor implementation. And therefor distanced them selves accordingly.

Of course i cant prove any of that, But im sure its at least plausible to many people.

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Originally posted by Nitth

Originally posted by deakon

We started ZeniMax Online from scratch, with no employees and no technology. We had to build everything ourselves. It takes a long time to write game engines, especially MMO engines, which are inherently more complicated than typical single-player ones. So, we decided to license the HeroEngine to give us a headstart. It was a useful tool for us to use to prototype areas and game design concepts, and it provided us the ability to get art into the game that was visible, so we could work on the game’s art style. Our plan is for ESO to be a world class MMO, with the most advanced social features found in any MMO to date – so while we were prototyping the game on HeroEngine, we were simultaneously developing our own client, server, and messaging layer that were specifically designed with ESO in mind. Think of HeroEngine as a whiteboard for us – a great tool to get some ideas in the game and start looking at them while the production engine was in development."

I call bullshit on this so much, why would you licence a redundant engine, Program and create incompatible assets to be used in your "Real" engine?

A better question would be why zenimax, the parent company of bethesda didnt use the gamebyro engine which they already own to "prototype" their ideas?

No! my speculative vision of the truth is they were on board with the hero engine until they got the massive negative feedback and stigma that came from the swtor implementation. And therefor distanced them selves accordingly.

Of course i cant prove any of that, But im sure its at least plausible to many people.

This game has been in development for five years. TOR came out less than a year ago. They couldn't have developed their own engine this fast.

Also, using a different engine for a prototype is not that strange, because you can use parts of that prototype (art, meshes, UI design, etc.) in the final project. A better question is why they mentioned Hero at all if it was only used for prototyping.

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I have felt..and can understand all the disappointment with the last few years of mmo releases.I'm still smarting from the GW2 disappointment (the WvW is simply awful). But each new introduction should be considered on its own merits ...seperately from our bitterness over the mmog genre.

For me...on this game...I read...listen to podcasts and all that is released about the game.So far.....I remain encouraged.Enouraged enough to buy SKYRIM(and for me thats a very big deal since the only single player game I've bought in recient years is CIVILIZATION).

Sooooo...I'm getting my TESO fix......and getting a modest preview of what I suspect TESO will be like to some degree.

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I'll pass on a game where the director himself claims theres no innovative features left to be added to the mmo genre. That pretty much tells me there will be nothing new or interesting about this game and for their sake I hope they plan on making TESO B2P or I have a feeling we'll be watching another major fail in the same way of SWTOR.

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Originally posted by coltonjeffersonOn Gamestop's site, The Elder Scrolls Online is up for pre-orders for $60. What do you think of it? Will it just be 60 bucks to buy the game then free from there on out, or will it have a subscription fee?

As a long term TES fan I would have to say one would have to pay me large sums of money to 'buy' this game.

I know getting paid to buy something is a little odd but you get the idea

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How will you ever KNOW if you don't take it for a test drive? Heck, TOR was like a hot date until you got to 50...

These developers need our financial support. Without it, it will be more of the same PTW cash shop business models instead of subscription games.

Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware

"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."