I don't know how you can justify Grabner > Raymond, Raymond's the one that doesn't back out from Physical contact and actually tries to back check. Remember, Grabner is #40, Raymond is #21.

Malik had some insane +/- that one year. remember?

+/- isn't a great indicator unless everyone plays against the same opposition.

If we control the play through out the game, it's fine for Luongo to be seemed as 2nd best goalie in the game, because, face it, we aren't going to score on every shot, but if we take 40 shots and score 3, the other goalie will still be looked as having a great game.

Jelly wrote:Henrik with out Daniel is just lost. I hope our secondary guys pick up enough to not dig us a huge hole.

5 points in 3 games is "just lost"? I am surprisingly comfortable with that. Hank does need a few games to get used to having to think where his winger will be instead of just knowing, but, he's doing fine so far.

Mikodat wrote: Raymond has the worst shot on the Canucks.. 23 shots on net and 1 goes in?? Most of his shots are still from the outside. Even Bernier has better finish...

I agree that Raymond needs to work on his shot. But you'd have to be blind and senile to not be impressed at the amount of chances he generated vs. the Wild. Certainly a more effective game than Grabner. His lone move seems to be to try and go five-hole shovel... but if he can continue to create chances he'll get more goals.

Edler has the worst +/- on the team and even in the win last night he managed to be on the ice for the Wild goal and did nothing to stop it..

Yeah, cuz you can blame Edler for a pass banking in off Wellwood's skate...

Yeah he played better last night.. but was still the second best goaltender on the ice, as he has in nearly all of the first 7 games..

The better team won. That was the story of the game. Luongo made the saves he had to, especially at the end, and while Backstrom was fantastic, the lone goal Lou let it wasn't exactly a bad goal. I guess you want a shutout to be satisfied... keep in mind, his save percentage was only .004% worse than Backstrom. (.944 v .948)

I agree that Raymond needs to work on his shot. But you'd have to be blind and senile to not be impressed at the amount of chances he generated vs. the Wild.

I am very impressed by Raymonds speed and ability.. but not by his shooting ability or his lack of passing .. Comparing him to Grabner ... ? ... AHL against NHL??? ..

Yeah, cuz you can blame Edler for a pass banking in off Wellwood's skate...

No , but I can blame him for not getting back in time to check the shooter.. why was Wellwod there ? However I concede I am a little down on Edler.. 2 seasons ago I thought he would be a top 2 dman..

Jelly your arguement about opposition would be valid. except for 1 small thing.. No other Dman has anywhere near the bad +/- that Edler has... and most play against better opps lines.. look at the stats .. Willie Mitchell? Salo?? ( not there now.. ) Bieksa.. Erhoff are usually on the ice against opps first lines..

I don't know what you watch, but it was always Mitchell/Salo for top defensive assignment. Heck, I'd have Edler/Bieksa ahead of Erhroff.

The thing is, shit happens. We are going into games down 0-1 every game cause of the bad bounce goal on us every game. And Edler isn't doing much offensively, add both together and you will have a bad +/-. I'm not saying he's not playing bad, I'm saying he's not playing as bad, as you think.

Grabner career NHL goals vs Raymond career NHL goals, when these two numbers match, then you can start talking about how Grabner > Raymond. Until then, Grabner is still on the fence leaning towards bust.

LotusBlossom wrote:I know the boys won but that had to be one of the most boring games I've ever had to witness.

I don't there was enough beer at GM Place to get me out of my coma.

We're going to have to get used to it. Considering our top 6 (Sedin, Burrows, Samuelson, Kesler, Raymond, Grabner) has 344 goals in 1,878 games, offense is going to be at a premium. We're just going to have to hope that we can hold the fort until Daniel (at least) is back.

We're going to have to get used to it. Considering our top 6 (Sedin, Burrows, Samuelson, Kesler, Raymond, Grabner) has 344 goals in 1,878 games, offense is going to be at a premium. We're just going to have to hope that we can hold the fort until Daniel (at least) is back.