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ARCHIVED - Should you be in trouble for unintended events?

[quote]9/30/2012 3:45 AM: [REDACTED][1848159] sent a warning to this user.
Warning Text: You have been sent a warning from [REDACTED] This warning's text is below:
A Bungie.net Forum Moderator has warned you for violating the code of conduct and/or rules of the forum in the thread below. Further violations will likely result in a ban.
http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=75030807
Political discussion is prohibited, Ken. Please do not start threads that are near-certain turn into political discussion[/quote]
The thread in question was about how Microsoft was getting people to watch a stream of a debate by giving away armor.
The thread itself was not intended to be political, it was about the promotion. The thread also never went into a political debate nor went off-topic.
Can you punish people for a thread potentially doing something while never doing it? Also if the thread did turn into a political debate but never was intended to be, why should the OP be punished for it?
Just because something his ties to politics does not mean it is a thread about politics.
(Now I understand the reasoning of the mod, but I still feel that punishing the OP for something that never happened is silly)
[Edited on 09.30.2012 11:58 AM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] M94 Mushroom Man
What's with the tilde Duardo?[/quote]iPad is slow so some letters come out weird.
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Duardo
Usually if there's a flame war it's because of the topic the OP chose. Of course, it really depends on the situation.[/quote]
- Not true, there are trolls who can quickly de-rail a thread. Happens all the time on the Flood, usually it is not the OPs fault unless he baited it, I am not talking about those people. [/quote]Yes it is true. It's also true about what you said.
[quote] [quote]
As for your warning, your first few posts in that thread were talking about what political party paid Microsoft to have this promotion. How is your thread not political?[/quote]
Debatable [/quote]...
and this is why the thread was locked.
[quote] [quote]
Intent doesn't mean you're automatically off the hook or what you did wasn't wrong. Some of the most terrible things have beeñ done with the best intentions.[/quote]
True, but just because a thread has political ties does not mean it is about politics. I think this incident was an overreaction because debate was mentioned. [/quote]This thread is an overreaction to a minor warning...
[Quote]Oh and as for flame wars, I don't think mods should lock threads unless it looks like one was gonna happen. And, it shouldn't be the OPs fault if people start fighting in the thread. [/quote]This goes back to my first response where usually it's the subject that the OP chose.
It seems we will soon be going in circles, so this thread is locked. As you know, if y have a problem with a moderators decision, PM that moderator and try to discuss it in a civil manner. Creating a thread about the incident isn't the best way to go about things.
Locked.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Duardo
Usually if there's a flame war it's because of the topic the OP chose. Of course, it really depends on the situation.[/quote]
- Not true, there are trolls who can quickly de-rail a thread. Happens all the time on the Flood, usually it is not the OPs fault unless he baited it, I am not talking about those people.
[quote]
As for your warning, your first few posts in that thread were talking about what political party paid Microsoft to have this promotion. How is your thread not political?[/quote]
Debatable
[quote]
Intent doesn't mean you're automatically off the hook or what you did wasn't wrong. Some of the most terrible things have beeñ done with the best intentions.[/quote]
True, but just because a thread has political ties does not mean it is about politics. I think this incident was an overreaction because debate was mentioned. Clearly the thread was an example how even though something is related to politics, it can not result in a flame war.
A thread can have political elements and still not be about politics.
The whole rule about politics need to be revised. There are many times politics, government, laws, etc can be part of a topic and not be a focus.
Oh and as for flame wars, I don't think mods should lock threads unless it looks like one was gonna happen. And, it shouldn't be the OPs fault if people start fighting in the thread.
[Edited on 09.30.2012 3:29 PM PDT]

[url=http://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/b476/robitusson2/Good-good-let-the-butthurt-flow-through-you-1.jpg]Come on now, son.[/url]
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15
I don't think it is good policy to lock threads and mods harass people if nothing is happening. [/quote]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Verachi
Why can't people keep this between themselves and the mods? PM's exist for a RAISON. I don't care if you were banned or warned, don't bring this drama to the mains. You're lucky you got away with a warning. I don't understand how you thought that thread wouldn't get out of hand.[/quote]
Yeah but it never did, it was locked and I was warned on assumptions.
I don't think it is good policy to lock threads and mods harass people if nothing is happening.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15
Okay but lets say in this case it is a flame war. If the OP of a thread did not make a thread to spark a flame war and someone else did, why should they be punished for it?
Also why should people be punished if nothing happened? Why not just lock the thread? [/quote]Usually if there's a flame war it's because of the topic the OP chose. Of course, it really depends on the situation.
As for your warning, your first few posts in that thread were talking about what political party paid Microsoft to have this promotion. How is your thread not political?
Intent doesn't mean you're automatically off the hook or what you did wasn't wrong. Some of the most terrible things have beeñ done with the best intentions.

Why can't people keep this between themselves and the mods? PM's exist for a RAISON. I don't care if you were banned or warned, don't bring this drama to the mains. You're lucky you got away with a warning. I don't understand how you thought that thread wouldn't get out of hand.
[Edited on 09.30.2012 2:54 PM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] coolmike699
Your analogy is confusing. [/quote]My apologies. You're in the backseat. Your driver isn't wearing a seatbelt, also intoxicated. They get arrested. You probably aren't going to get arrested, but the cops will have a word with you about your actions.
That would be Ken's warning in this case. It could have been avoided by not getting in the car.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spawn031
It's like getting pulled over for not wearing a seatbelt, then your driver gets arrested for being under the influence. Even though YOU are perfectly fine, you are in the situation. You created that scenario for yourself. You could have simply not gone in the car. I'd say you're lucky for only getting a warning.[/quote]
You're not "lucky", you got punished for doing what you did, not wearing your seat belt.
Your analogy is confusing.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15
I believe the OP should not be responsible for the actions of others in a thread if the intent of the thread was not to break any rules.
[/quote]
"My friends are drunk driving and I'm sober, can I get arrested?"
Stop playing in the grey area, consequences are inbound. Every single time you make a post, you take a risk. Welcome to online forums. It's up to the discretion of moderators and the web-team of your post and intent of your post.
There are strict rules in play about political and religious discussion specifically. The line for those are black and white, just avoid the situation and you're all clear kid.
It's like being in the backseat of a car and your driver gets pulled over for no seatbelt and intoxicated. Even though you are perfectly fine, you are in the situation. The cop will most likely have a word with you (warning). You created that scenario for yourself. You could have simply not gone in the car. I'd say you're lucky for only getting a warning.
[Edited on 09.30.2012 1:50 PM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] jyrine
[quote]
Should a user be potentially punished for unintended consequences?
My answer, hell yes. That potentiality for punishment should always be on the table. It should be at the ninja's discretion to lay it on that user though. Which, of course, it is.
[/quote] You have no idea how nice it was to see you answer that. Really, I don't know why, but I feel like the idea of that someone can avoiding responsibility if they didn't think it through, is a growing trend, and thankfully not everyone agrees with that trend.
[/quote]
I think that is scary how freely mods can ban people for "potential" things. You could say many threads could turn into a flame war, does that mean we lock and warn/ban all the threads if someone tries to start someone.
I believe the OP should not be responsible for the actions of others in a thread if the intent of the thread was not to break any rules.
After all, if the thread has the potential to be something else, that implies that is currently not against the rules. It also means that it shouldn't be the OPs fault if trolls ruin it. [/quote]
This is real life ken. Get used to it.
Cop pulls someone over. Passenger has drugs on them. They get arrested. What happens to the driver? Do they get arrested? Normally no. But they do get a nice long talking to on how it could affect them, and what they could get charged with.
That is [i][b]exactly[/i][/b] what happened to you.
[quote]how freely mods can ban people for "potential" things[/quote] Really? Like what? Cause you're no banned as far as I can tell.
As Woot said, stop with the slippery slope crap.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] evilcam
Alright, let's all dial it back a bit. This is becoming heated, and its simply not worth even that potentiality.
OT: Your thread was locked because it was inherently political. Whomever locked it doesn't care about your intent, it was about events ancillary to an election, which is inherently political. Repeating that you don't think it was political and that "it was fine" won't change that. In fact, if all this thread is just complaining about a locked thread, I'm going to lock this one. You can complain about policy or general action, but not about a specific locked thread.
So, get back on the policy aspect, stop connecting it to a single thread, or this is gone.
Should a user be potentially punished for unintended consequences?
My answer, hell yes. That potentiality for punishment should always be on the table. It should be at the ninja's discretion to lay it on that user though. Which, of course, it is.
[/quote]
Okay but lets say in this case it is a flame war. If the OP of a thread did not make a thread to spark a flame war and someone else did, why should they be punished for it?
Also why should people be punished if nothing happened? Why not just lock the thread? [/quote]/refersyoutomyhighwaypost

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15
[/quote]To have avoided all of this you should have made the thread like this.
[quote]TITLE: Why should microsoft bribe people with items for watching something?
BODY: Is there a reason? Do they just want people to be more aware?
Thought of this when I saw this [link to article][/quote]
Also, the reason is pretty obvious to why so I don't see why a thread is necessary

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] jyrine
[quote]
Should a user be potentially punished for unintended consequences?
My answer, hell yes. That potentiality for punishment should always be on the table. It should be at the ninja's discretion to lay it on that user though. Which, of course, it is.
[/quote] You have no idea how nice it was to see you answer that. Really, I don't know why, but I feel like the idea of that someone can avoiding responsibility if they didn't think it through, is a growing trend, and thankfully not everyone agrees with that trend.
[/quote]
I think that is scary how freely mods can ban people for "potential" things. You could say many threads could turn into a flame war, does that mean we lock and warn/ban all the threads if someone tries to start someone.
I believe the OP should not be responsible for the actions of others in a thread if the intent of the thread was not to break any rules.
After all, if the thread has the potential to be something else, that implies that is currently not against the rules. It also means that it shouldn't be the OPs fault if trolls ruin it.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] evilcam
Alright, let's all dial it back a bit. This is becoming heated, and its simply not worth even that potentiality.
[/quote]Mind as to why. Most people get tired of having to repeat themselves when someone asks a question, but they just don't like the answer.
[quote]Should a user be potentially punished for unintended consequences?
My answer, hell yes. That potentiality for punishment should always be on the table. It should be at the ninja's discretion to lay it on that user though. Which, of course, it is.
[/quote] You have no idea how nice it was to see you answer that. Really, I don't know why, but I feel like the idea that someone can avoid responsibility if they didn't think something through, is a growing trend, and thankfully not everyone agrees with that trend.
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CrazzySnipe55
Life is a highway, ken, and I'm gonna drive it (all night long). You should, too.[/quote]Just earned some cool points.
Now for my own input. Beyond what anyone else has said, I would have done the same thing. Warning or message, really doesn't matter to me. The only thing it does is effect your title, which it obviously didn't in your case, so either way its no reason to create a thread about it.
And on that note, isn't creating threads about your own locked thread somewhere else a bannable offense? Or is the a mod digression? Serious question here.
[Edited on 09.30.2012 1:06 PM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] evilcam
Alright, let's all dial it back a bit. This is becoming heated, and its simply not worth even that potentiality.
OT: Your thread was locked because it was inherently political. Whomever locked it doesn't care about your intent, it was about events ancillary to an election, which is inherently political. Repeating that you don't think it was political and that "it was fine" won't change that. In fact, if all this thread is just complaining about a locked thread, I'm going to lock this one. You can complain about policy or general action, but not about a specific locked thread.
So, get back on the policy aspect, stop connecting it to a single thread, or this is gone.
Should a user be potentially punished for unintended consequences?
My answer, hell yes. That potentiality for punishment should always be on the table. It should be at the ninja's discretion to lay it on that user though. Which, of course, it is.
[/quote]
Okay but lets say in this case it is a flame war. If the OP of a thread did not make a thread to spark a flame war and someone else did, why should they be punished for it?
Also why should people be punished if nothing happened? Why not just lock the thread?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15
[quote]9/30/2012 3:45 AM: [REDACTED][1848159] sent a warning to this user.
Warning Text: You have been sent a warning from [REDACTED] This warning's text is below:
A Bungie.net Forum Moderator has warned you for violating the code of conduct and/or rules of the forum in the thread below. Further violations will likely result in a ban.
http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=75030807
Political discussion is prohibited, Ken. Please do not start threads that are near-certain turn into political discussion[/quote]
The thread in question was about how Microsoft was getting people to watch a stream of a debate by giving away armor.
The thread itself was not intended to be political, it was about the promotion. The thread also never went into a political debate nor went off-topic.
Can you punish people for a thread potentially doing something while never doing it? Also if the thread did turn into a political debate but never was intended to be, why should the OP be punished for it?
Just because something his ties to politics does not mean it is a thread about politics.
(Now I understand the reasoning of the mod, but I still feel that punishing the OP for something that never happened is silly) [/quote]
[quote]Please do not start threads that are near-certain turn into political discussion[/quote]
[quote][url=http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/hfcs/Group/Resources/Article.aspx?cid=217783 ]Forum Ninja candidates should have extensive knowledge of the English language and proper grammar.[/url][/quote]
There's a contradiction for you.
Why should someone be punished for something that "are near certain turn into political discussion"? Is it political discussion or isn't it? Mentioning a political figure isn't isn't political discussion if they aren't being talked about in a political context.
Discussing Xbox Live rewards isn't political. Simply mentioning "watching the debate" isn't political.
Seriously, a rule is something we're supposed to be able to follow. Not some string of nonsense words that don't mean anything. Whoever warned you for this didn't think that through.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] evilcam
Alright, let's all dial it back a bit. This is becoming heated, and its simply not worth even that potentiality.
OT: Your thread was locked because it was inherently political. Whomever locked it doesn't care about your intent, it was about events ancillary to an election, which is inherently political. Repeating that you don't think it was political and that "it was fine" won't change that. In fact, if all this thread is just complaining about a locked thread, I'm going to lock this one. You can complain about policy or general action, but not about a specific locked thread.
So, get back on the policy aspect, stop connecting it to a single thread, or this is gone.
Should a user be potentially punished for unintended consequences?
My answer, hell yes. That potentiality for punishment should always be on the table. It should be at the ninja's discretion to lay it on that user though. Which, of course, it is.
[/quote]I wish I could make threats.

Why is this a thread?
You're obviously salty over a moderator Warning you over your thread that was about someone advertising/rewarding people for watching a [b]Political[/b] debate.
While the thread didn't get overly flamey, it still broke the rules. Sorry broseph.