I appreciated that they tried to make a bit of a paralel to Warcraft 3 having it all take place in the throne room, but to me it just makes it more obvious how much Warcraft changed over the years, from the overly flashy animations to how comic book like the dialogue and events are.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Deicide

There are a few things I like to point here:

- Saurfang was defined as "too old" for leadership back in Cataclysm. Sure, Blizzard can just ignore that, but I'm kinda hopeful that their storytelling has improved.

- Saurfang's whole thing is attunement for his past crimes. He wants a honored death. I think the perfect end here for him is for him to achieve both in the most spectacular way possible.

- Saurfang being "the hero" does not mean he ends up being "the Warchief". If only Saurfang "saves" the Horde, then the problem is still there. There needs to be more people working for that. Baine's little rant in the cinematic is the kind of seed that a storyteller puts early in the story so it can get a result later. I may be seeing too much into it, but Baine, even if not the Warchief, will have a role to play later. Baine has been passive and people are disappointed in him, so he's perfect for an unexpected twist.

I'm assuming, of course, that Blizzard has gotten better in storytelling. Since Golden is working with them directly, not just writing a novel, I'm also assuming she has direct input into the narrative's direction. If that's the case, we will be seeing less of one character getting all the focus, and more of several characters having roles that lead to the great ending.

So, to conclude: I think Saurfang will be "the big damn hero" of the Horde, but several other Horde characters will have surprising roles. One of them is Baine, who, after Saurfang, is the one Horde leader whose morals are in the right place. He just needs the courage to follow them.

And Thrall’s wise choice of a younger, more charismatic leader went so well, why would we ever want an older, wiser one? Sarcasm aside, I think that unless someone is physically or mentally disabled because of their age, then age should be no barrier to leadership, and the wisdom it brings is a great asset. If Saurfang is able to be high overlord and lead armies then he’s able to do it as Warchief. Yes, people like younger more charismatic leaders, but history and fiction are littered with people cheering and craving horrible leaders. Saurfang would bring wisdom that Garrosh certainly never could, and that Thrall and even Baine lack. He’s actually seen it go wrong each time. He actually knows the pitfalls to avoid because he fell in them.

-yes, Saurfang seeks an honorable death in battle, but that’s where he’s starting. That need not be where he finishes. He’s in a pretty low place. He could easily rise higher. There’s a great story in the Old Soldier finding a reason to live with honor rather than die with it. As I said, he has a lot to contribute because if his age.

- I honestly didn’t get that from Baine’s little outburst. I got a tidbit explaining to Tauren Players why they’re not already rebelling against a Warchief who so clearly opposes their ideals.

- Saurfang could save the Horde without becoming War Chief. But he has more to offer the position than any other character at the moment. I’d love to see Baine find his courage, but I don’t think that story will take him that far.

On that note, say what you will about Blizzard’s storytelling past and present, but I can’t say they’ve been very big on twists.

Metzen also revealed that he has no insights into how Teldrassil plays out--the last thing he worked on for WoW was Anduin's resurrection at the end of the Lordaeron cinematic. He's shocked at the story, and wonders where it could go next...he also wants Saurfang take Sylvanas out, and stand up for the Horde. He also loves Jaina's flying ghostship. The interview wraps up with him stating that he is enjoying his retirement, anxiety issues mostly cleared up.

Ungrim is therefore bound by two conflicting obligations as both a Slayer and King - in addition to his duty to serve his city as King, he is also bound to seek out the most dangerous creatures he can find in order to achieve an honorable death in combat as a Slayer.

I honestly feel like Saurfang going forward will be a big determining factor in whether this whole thing has a satisfying payoff of whether it turns into another "nothing is learned and nothing changes" scenario like MoP.

If he actually steps up at some time as part of some general movement toward the Horde itself effectively issuing Varian's ultimatum to its own Warchiefs going forward, then that could potentially make the whole thing worth it.

If his cinematic and capture end up turning out to just be a fancy way of symbolically taking the "good Horde" out of the equation and shelving it for the duration of BfA (akin to Thrall being away on shaman business while Saurfang was up in Northrend for the bulk of Garrosh's reign), then it'll feel an awful lot like a Cataclysm/MoP retread that's all been for nothing.

That said, I find Jaina's boat kinda pointless. She's a mage, and an extremely powerful one at that. She can literally do all of the stuff she did with that boat at Lordaeron on her own, without needing several tons of unnecessary timber under her feet to do it.

In fact without having to haul that thing around she could have likely gotten there faster by just teleporting herself, which would have let her join the battle sooner and neutralize the Blight before it killed a crapton of soldiers on both sides.

And more importantly, gee whiz, all that power sure would have been useful in the extremely necessary war we just fought to save Azeroth. Sorry Jaina, you're still a petty traitor who turned her back on the entire planet as far as I'm concerned, and now you're compounding your failure by only bothering to come back when the war feeds into your personal grievances. You've been made selfish and irresponsible, changing her from my favorite WC3 character into the person I care the least about in WoW. Giving you dark eyeliner, a permanent scowl, a fancy boat and a deeper "always angry" tone of voice doesn't undo the utter wrecking of your character by the faction conflict. That stuff arguably just exacerbates it.

That said, I find Jaina's boat kinda pointless. She's a mage, and an extremely powerful one at that. She can literally do all of the stuff she did with that boat at Lordaeron on her own, without needing several tons of unnecessary timber under her feet to do it.

In fact without having to haul that thing around she could have likely gotten there faster by just teleporting herself, which would have let her join the battle sooner and neutralize the Blight before it killed a crapton of soldiers on both sides.

Besides of cool factor I think ship can be used as catalyst for more powerful spells for her. Also, magic fed upon strong emotions can be very powerful in this case (volatile too), which would explain why she's able to manouver ship and use powerful spells easily.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ARM3481

Sorry Jaina, you're still a petty traitor who turned her back on the entire planet as far as I'm concerned, and now you're compounding your failure by only bothering to come back when the war feeds into your personal grievances. You've been made selfish and irresponsible, changing her from my favorite WC3 character into the person I care the least about in WoW. Giving you dark eyeliner, a permanent scowl, a fancy boat and a deeper "always angry" tone of voice doesn't undo the utter wrecking of your character by the faction conflict. That stuff arguably just exacerbates it.

That's why for me it's finally interesting character. Yes, I know Warcraft is heroic fantasy with cliche roles, but still I like flaws in her. Earlier she was very "meh" in my opinion. Now she has dents and cracks.

Not just you. Initially, I guesses she brought the ship because of the cannon firepower. I mean, having a barrage of cannons at your personal command to blast a target is always useful. Even better if you can enhance the cannons with magic!

But then, on second view, I noticed the cannons are all magical constructs, not real weaponry. So, the ship just became pointless rule of cool.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Deicide

Not just you. Initially, I guesses she brought the ship because of the cannon firepower. I mean, having a barrage of cannons at your personal command to blast a target is always useful. Even better if you can enhance the cannons with magic!

But then, on second view, I noticed the cannons are all magical constructs, not real weaponry. So, the ship just became pointless rule of cool.

It's these kinds of details that take me off of a story.

Calling it now: They’re setting up at least part of raid. We either ride the ship into battle or we attempt to take it.

It's also interesting that void elves get a big role (and again appear to have a sizable attack force that doesn't make any sense if only Umbric's group of mages and warlocks underwent the transformation, so more evidence that they're converting more high and blood elves) while no other allied races appear.

Between this and the war campaign, maybe Blizzard really is trying to prevent the void elves from becoming draenei and worgen 2.0. Right now its the Lightforged draenei and mag'har who are getting the short end of the stick compared to everyone else.

It's also interesting that void elves get a big role (and again appear to have a sizable attack force that doesn't make any sense if only Umbric's group of mages and warlocks underwent the transformation, so more evidence that they're converting more high and blood elves) while no other allied races appear.

Between this and the war campaign, maybe Blizzard really is trying to prevent the void elves from becoming draenei and worgen 2.0. Right now its the Lightforged draenei and mag'har who are getting the short end of the stick compared to everyone else.

Considering void elves have zero lore, it's required for them to have at least some appearances ASAP, which also explains their role in the war campaign.

It's still very little. The story is not about them, it just features them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krainz

Lightforged Draenei don't need any more spotlight.

I disagree. They need a ton of fleshing out. They just appeared in Argus, but it was never about them. They need a story about them.

Unfortunately, Blizzard can't get rid of a playable race. Or else I'd suggest throwing the void elves into the fire as well. So, since they are here to stay, the next best option is to flesh them out into something interesting on their own.

One thing interesting I've noticed. Blizzard put far more effort into updating Stormwind post burning of Teldrassil than they did Orgrimmar post fall of Undercity.

There are a lot more refugees in Stormwind, complete with unique dialogue and interactions with other NPCs (for example I just saw a Gilnean NPC in the mage district lamenting to a Stormwind Clerk that the Gilneans have lost their home twice in a row now), the Cathedral has Mia Greymane and some priests treating burn victims, druids are growing pumpkins at the Wollerton Stead (and Farmer Wollerton saying that the night elves have to work if their tent city place is going to stay near his farm), Tyrande and Malfurion are gathered in front of that big battle strategy map in the Stormwind Keep war room, etc.

Meanwhile in Orgrimmar there's the Forsaken area at the main gate and a couple refugees elsewhere, but that's about it.

One thing interesting I've noticed. Blizzard put far more effort into updating Stormwind post burning of Teldrassil than they did Orgrimmar post fall of Undercity.

There are a lot more refugees in Stormwind, complete with unique dialogue and interactions with other NPCs (for example I just saw a Gilnean NPC in the mage district lamenting to a Stormwind Clerk that the Gilneans have lost their home twice in a row now), the Cathedral has Mia Greymane and some priests treating burn victims, druids are growing pumpkins at the Wollerton Stead (and Farmer Wollerton saying that the night elves have to work if their tent city place is going to stay near his farm), Tyrande and Malfurion are gathered in front of that big battle strategy map in the Stormwind Keep war room, etc.

Meanwhile in Orgrimmar there's the Forsaken area at the main gate and a couple refugees elsewhere, but that's about it.

Fun fact: the things refugees (and Wollerton) say are random. They have some other things to say when you approach them.

And in Orgrimmar, the refuge groups also have things to say when you approach them. At least one forsaken refugee complained to me that Orgrimmar was too bright for her taste. And there's some refugees also in the Cleft of Shadows.

Another fun fact: in Beta, until at least June, in both Stormwind and Orgrimmar, there were way more refugees. The situation in Stormwind seemed a lot more desperate, with displaced night elves everywhere around the channels, the tent city having way more people, and the Cathedral district had many many more wounded. I don't know why Blizzard removed many of those NPCs, it felt really heartbreaking to see so much homeless people.

Fun fact: the things refugees (and Wollerton) say are random. They have some other things to say when you approach them.

And in Orgrimmar, the refuge groups also have things to say when you approach them. At least one forsaken refugee complained to me that Orgrimmar was too bright for her taste. And there's some refugees also in the Cleft of Shadows.

Another fun fact: in Beta, until at least June, in both Stormwind and Orgrimmar, there were way more refugees. The situation in Stormwind seemed a lot more desperate, with displaced night elves everywhere around the channels, the tent city having way more people, and the Cathedral district had many many more wounded. I don't know why Blizzard removed many of those NPCs, it felt really heartbreaking to see so much homeless people.

It seems it's random whether they'll say anything, as I haven't been able to get any dialogue since, maybe I've just been unlucky with the Orgrimmar refugees.

As for the reduction in amount, I'm pretty sure its for gameplay reasons. A lot of NPCs gathered together puts a lot of strain on servers and graphics. Blizzard's always struggled with this, the infamous "cardboard orcs" from Tanaan Jungle being a good example.

They can crow about how they're gonna punk us so hard so far but the lead up to the expansion was predictable the moment they threw the "why did the Horde Burn down Tel'drassil?" at Blizzcon.

You don't build a reputation on what you haven't yet done, and So far there have been zero twists. The only twist they had was the complete absence of one after so much of the coy hyping and then revealed that no, it was just straight up Sylvanas torching the tree like she set out to do.

Next prediction is that it switches to an Old God expansion halfway through because they already told us it would shift perspective more or less and we already have a servant of N'zoth being active.