I hope everyone votes next week. Kind of amazing as a society that so many of us will spend hours on [fill in the blank - eg, posting on YA] but hardly anyone under 30 votes.

stone88

Post #242

Thursday October 30, 2014 5:15pm

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 1,483

Original post from 2tone

Look it's pointless to get into this debate. You have your opinion I have mine.

Come back to you when ISIS has invaded? All you have to do is open your eyes. They are already here.

Good day.

Oh, my eyes are open, yours must be closed. ISIS is already here? What town have they taken over? Which attack on the US have they committed? Only thing I've seen about ISIS in this country are the couple of Americans, mainly gullible kids trying to leave the country to go fight with them in Syria and Iraq, all of which have been thwarted.

I'm of the mind that most terrorism in this country is done by American far right wing christian radicals. You know, abortion clinic bombers, sovereign citizens movement who kill cops, or insane right wing lunatics trying to kill a bunch of people through bombings and shootings, and the FBI statistics would back me up on this point.

Hell, I'm more afraid of some crazy unhinged or mentally ill American shooting up a movie theater I'm in or the middle school I pick my nephew up at sometimes. It's like every couple months we have some unhinged person shoot a bunch of people at a school or some public building, and they have nothing to do with ISIS or even radical Islam.

Good day to you sir!

stone88

Post #243

Thursday October 30, 2014 5:21pm

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 1,483

Original post from blaise213

Lets go Giants !!!!

2toneTen-Towns

Post #244

Thursday October 30, 2014 9:01pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,178

Original post from stone88

Oh, my eyes are open, yours must be closed. ISIS is already here? What town have they taken over? Which attack on the US have they committed? Only thing I've seen about ISIS in this country are the couple of Americans, mainly gullible kids trying to leave the country to go fight with them in Syria and Iraq, all of which have been thwarted.

I'm of the mind that most terrorism in this country is done by American far right wing christian radicals. You know, abortion clinic bombers, sovereign citizens movement who kill cops, or insane right wing lunatics trying to kill a bunch of people through bombings and shootings, and the FBI statistics would back me up on this point.

Hell, I'm more afraid of some crazy unhinged or mentally ill American shooting up a movie theater I'm in or the middle school I pick my nephew up at sometimes. It's like every couple months we have some unhinged person shoot a bunch of people at a school or some public building, and they have nothing to do with ISIS or even radical Islam.

Good day to you sir!

Ok. I like how you left out far left wing lunatics who have bombed public places. i.e Weather Underground.

How about the shooting at Fort Hood? Nidal Malik Hasan. Who turned into a radical Muslim, and has recently stated that he would love to join ISIS.

How about the radical Muslim who just beheaded one of his coworkers( an attack on any American citizen is an attack on America). Who had converted to Islam and then was radicalized by ISIS propaganda from the Internet I am sure you will just say they are work place violence acts.

Or that the black ISIS flag was seen flying in a Muslim rally in Miami?

Or that in Houston, Texas cops have detained Muslims wearing black clothing with the ISIS emblem.

Or that in Dearborn, Michigan Muslims were throwing rocks at a Christian organization that was peacefully exercising their right to protest?

What about the attack on the American consulate building in Benghazi, Libya? It was a coordinated attack, not some spur of the moment attack prompted by some video.

Yes there are extremists in other religions, but the conversation isn't about them. The conversation isn't about other radicals. The conversation is about Radical Islam and ISIS.

No your eyes aren't open.

hamsamwich

Post #245

Thursday October 30, 2014 9:32pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 2,982

Libya wasn't filled with radicals until we ousted khadafi. Same with Syria now and Assad. Or previously Saddam (who we installed) in Iraq. We want to act like puppet masters and then get surprised when all the guns end up in the "wrong" hands. Our CIA and foreign policy "experts" have gotten into this mess. We keep creating our own enemies. Just like our friends, then enemies al Qaeda and bin laden.

If we truly want to get rid of these loony tunes then we should have a real coalition involving Syria and Iran but we won't do that. Assad has been complaining for over 3 maybe 4 years about the terrorists in Syria, but our experts (read CIA, military intelligence) along with Turkey and Israel wanted regime change in Syria. All te weapons we used to support the "moderate" rebels in Syria to accomplish said regime change have ended up in the hands of the evil ISIS brigades. Surprise, surprise.

We should admit our mistakes and involve that whole region in a real coalition. But we all know this is about something else. Just like Libya, we have failed. If in Syria we do get a puppet government like in Libya will it be any surprise when the embassy gets attacked???

2toneTen-Towns

Post #246

Friday October 31, 2014 12:22am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,178

I bow out of this debate.

I agree we created the vacuum. I agree that the US government has had it's mongering hands in the middle east and in northern Africa far to much for far to long.

And I agree that you can only show a people freedom, but that they are the ones that have to fight for it.

But it's not about if ISIS will grow if the international community doesn't challenge them, it's about how big will they grow and what type of Enemy will they be in the future. The last thing you want is for that faction to get their hands on a few tactical nukes.

MSantoine

Post #247

Friday October 31, 2014 2:18pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723

Original post from 2tone

Ok. I like how you left out far left wing lunatics who have bombed public places. i.e Weather Underground.

How about the shooting at Fort Hood? Nidal Malik Hasan. Who turned into a radical Muslim, and has recently stated that he would love to join ISIS.

How about the radical Muslim who just beheaded one of his coworkers( an attack on any American citizen is an attack on America). Who had converted to Islam and then was radicalized by ISIS propaganda from the Internet I am sure you will just say they are work place violence acts.

Or that the black ISIS flag was seen flying in a Muslim rally in Miami?

Or that in Houston, Texas cops have detained Muslims wearing black clothing with the ISIS emblem.

Or that in Dearborn, Michigan Muslims were throwing rocks at a Christian organization that was peacefully exercising their right to protest?

What about the attack on the American consulate building in Benghazi, Libya? It was a coordinated attack, not some spur of the moment attack prompted by some video.

Yes there are extremists in other religions, but the conversation isn't about them. The conversation isn't about other radicals. The conversation is about Radical Islam and ISIS.

No your eyes aren't open.

Dont forget the three tennage girls trying to leave the country to join ISIS but got caught. Or the MIT?Harvard? professor who had ties to ISIS. Or the Afghani (or Pakistani, I forget) who came to massachusetts legally and then tried to flee to Canada and were founf to have ties to ISIS.

Those are just the ones we've known about in the last month or so.

stone88

Post #248

Friday October 31, 2014 9:36pm

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 1,483

Original post from 2tone

Ok. I like how you left out far left wing lunatics who have bombed public places. i.e Weather Underground.

How about the shooting at Fort Hood? Nidal Malik Hasan. Who turned into a radical Muslim, and has recently stated that he would love to join ISIS.

How about the radical Muslim who just beheaded one of his coworkers( an attack on any American citizen is an attack on America). Who had converted to Islam and then was radicalized by ISIS propaganda from the Internet I am sure you will just say they are work place violence acts.

Or that the black ISIS flag was seen flying in a Muslim rally in Miami?

Or that in Houston, Texas cops have detained Muslims wearing black clothing with the ISIS emblem.

Or that in Dearborn, Michigan Muslims were throwing rocks at a Christian organization that was peacefully exercising their right to protest?

What about the attack on the American consulate building in Benghazi, Libya? It was a coordinated attack, not some spur of the moment attack prompted by some video.

Yes there are extremists in other religions, but the conversation isn't about them. The conversation isn't about other radicals. The conversation is about Radical Islam and ISIS.

No your eyes aren't open.

You know why I left out far left wing terrorism? Because the threat is slight and pales in comparison to the amount of American right wing and Islamic terrorism. Weather Underground? Really? When was the last time they really did anything? The 70's? Most left wing terrorists today in the US are eco-terrorists, but are so small they are largely inconsequential.

Look 2tone, I'm well aware that radical Islamic ideologies exist in the United States and that they can be correlated and the cause of quite a few terror attacks in the US. But it is also important to note that the MAJORITY of terrorism done in the US today is by radical right wing American groups or individuals that have zero ties to Islam, THIS IS JUST A STATISTICAL FACT. Look at the FBI or Homeland Security crime/terrorism statistics if you don't believe me. So if you really want to protect Americans and keep them safe, shouldn't we be freaking out a little more over the groups that are actually threatening to do and doing the most damage to us?

However, we have been talking specifically about ISIS, the group that in your mind is such an existential threat to the safety of America that you're willing to support another full scale US military invasion into Iraq, an act that I thought most Americans would have learned was illadivised the first time around. Moreover, while you can name incidents of Islamic terrorism, not one of those examples you mentioned were directly coordinated by or influenced by ISIS themselves.

I'm sure the fort hood shooter WOULD have liked to join ISIS, he is an Islamic radical, but clearly radicalized by some other means, not ISIS. And in regards to the guy who beheaded his co-workers, I would say that it is mostly workplace violence. Why? Well because that is what the Police and the FBI are saying. Whether you chose to believe them is up to you. FBI Official: "the investigation, has so far found no links to terrorism. There was also no indication that Nolen was copying the beheadings of journalists in Syria by the Islamic State...we are treating this as an incident of workplace violence."

Oh, and because some people fly the ISIS flag or have an ISIS emblem isn't a suffiecient enough reason, threat, or conclusion to warrant another full scale war. There was a story the other day about a Muslim man in New England that was flying the black Jihadi flag. Scared neighbors called the Police on him. They arrested him and the FBI did a background search and interrogated in him for several days. It turns out the guy was a moderate Muslim who was simply ignorant about the full meaning of the flag. He had no idea that it was a terrorist flag, and thought it was merely a symbol of Islam. The FBI released him, he took the flag down and he even made a public statement to apologize for scaring people.

See, the trap you are falling into is that you are conflating ISIS and Radical Islam. ISIS are radical Islamists, but Radical Islam is not just ISIS. Whether we invade Iraq again and largely destroy ISIS or not, the current global climate shows that we won't be rid of radical Islam. We will only be a couple trillion dollars poorer and a few hundred or thousand troops fewer. Moreover, to really try to rid the world of ISIS, we'd have to yet again invade two countries at once; Iraq and Syria. Because what is the point of pushing them out of Iraq if they'll just run into Syria, and vise versa. A decades long amount of experience has already showed how well that strategy worked out.

You want to fight Islamic extremism and terrorism, as do I, but lets do it in a nuanced manner, one that can be sustain over the long run. One that can better weather every flavor of the month Islamic extremist group that pops up in the middle east or around the world. Not one that decides to ignore home grown right wing or left wing terrorism and decides to invade multiple countries at whim, simply because we get a little scared of the newest breed of Muslim extremism.

This is the last thing I'll say on this topic, good day 2tone!

chillguy1992

Post #249

Friday October 31, 2014 10:11pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 1,118

Original post from TheTruth

I hope everyone votes next week. Kind of amazing as a society that so many of us will spend hours on [fill in the blank - eg, posting on YA] but hardly anyone under 30 votes.

I voted recently I am younger then 30 and I see the benefits of voting. I think a lot of people under 30 hate the political process. They hate the lack of t bi-partisanship hasn't allowed us to deal with a variety of issues. In fact I would argue that judges this year have shown their importance to society. Obviously people will argue their benefits or non benefits based on party. But judges races can be extremely important and can often influence public policy more so then it seems congress, senate or the president can. Also I think both sides can often find compromise but often that compromise gets destroyed by special interest groups. For example in North Carolina the state where I live the poltical advertisements have become supercharged with negativity. Superpacs should be reigned in the amount of poltical adveritsing by both sides has grown to insane levels it could make my head pop off. Supreme court has made a ton of decisions this year and past couple years that have made significant public policy changes. Its hard to compromise when both sides have become super partisan.

stone88

Post #250

Friday October 31, 2014 10:11pm

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 1,483

Original post from MSantoine

Dont forget the three tennage girls trying to leave the country to join ISIS but got caught. Or the MIT?Harvard? professor who had ties to ISIS. Or the Afghani (or Pakistani, I forget) who came to massachusetts legally and then tried to flee to Canada and were founf to have ties to ISIS.

Those are just the ones we've known about in the last month or so.

That's not so bad, JK. But wanna see what the American extreme right wing has been up to while we are all freaking out over ISIS and Islamic terrorism.

How about the couple in Las Vegas this year that shot and killed two police officers while at lunch, then walked across the street and killed a man in Wal-Mart. They left a pair of swastikas and antigovernment "Patriot movement" badges on the dead cops, along with a note that said "The start of a revolution".

How about the guy that opened fire killing three people at the Jewish community center in KC. Turns out he was a leading member of the KKK and the anti-government paramilitary group the White Patriot Party.

Or the guy last year who ambushed, shot and killed a policy officer in his squad car in California. Turns out he was a member of the extremely right wing and Antigovernment group "sovereign citizens".

Or in 2012 the Neo-Nazi skinhead that shot and killed 6 people at a Sikh Temple in Wis. Was also found to be the member of the right wing group"Ayrian Liberation Movement".

Also, in that same month 7 "sovereign citizens" shot and killed a Louisianna Sheriff, two deputies and a black man.

Or the guy caught in a plot this March to blow up several Muslim mosques and a courthouse with a huge stockpile of C4. He was also the founder of the "American Insurgent Movement" an online group dedicated to violence and terrorist activities against the government and American Muslims.

The list goes on and on and on.

Spank661

Post #251

Saturday November 1, 2014 12:04am

Joined Feb 2013
Total Posts: 128

So I'm guessing Duane Holmes joined ISIS? It's a sad day when a footballer joins a terrorist organization. Or was he loaned out to ISIS by Huddersfield? He def needs playing time and if ISIS can give him that then let's all hope this move works out.

EKneezyAtlanta

Post #252

Saturday November 1, 2014 12:09am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 3,065

Original post from Spank

So I'm guessing Duane Holmes joined ISIS? It's a sad day when a footballer joins a terrorist organization. Or was he loaned out to ISIS by Huddersfield? He def needs playing time and if ISIS can give him that then let's all hope this move works out.

Glorious statement sir. Just glorious.

navi8132New York

Post #253

Saturday November 1, 2014 12:30am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 3,048

LOLLL

dunlopp9987

Post #254

Saturday February 7, 2015 9:58pm

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 2,640

Wow. This thread has 17 pages. Remember Duane Holmes? There were people on here predicting he would be with the senior USMNT in a few years. I just saw an Instagram video of his where he was in the stands (with the fans) for Huddersfield's match today. What has happened to him? I know he was on loan at Bury and didn't play much.

COYB!!

blaise213

Post #255

Saturday February 7, 2015 11:20pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 2,814

I had high hopes for Gboly Ariyibi too. Last I heard he was trying out for a couple MLS teams but looks like he's still with Chesterfield.

Duane Holmes should probably consider MLS if he's fallen out of favor in Europe!