Did you not see my statement, suggesting that he looks to be about 215 to 220, now? My point was that it's hardly a stretch to say that someone without drugs to get to 215 or 220 ripped would have to be 290 off-season, putting on quite a bit of bodyfat with no anabolics to ensure most of his weight is lean mass.

Fletcher's bodyfat is way higher than Cormier or Levrone, even in their off-season modes.

Not if the tests are random, in addition to scheduled tests. Otherwise, people wouldn't be getting popped (i.e. the INBA's wall of shame). Apparently they took your advice but didn't fare so well.

There are powerlifters who are bigger than bodybuilders, even if they aren't nearly as defined.

Fletcher isn't the size of guys at the Olympia. You've seen how he looks ripped (or close to it) and it's not even close. Again, but for his arms, he looks like a light heavyweight.

With that said, Fletcher has the resume and the records to support his drug-free claims. I will give him the benefit of the doubt, until I see sufficient evidence to the contrary. If you want to believe he's taking everything but the kitchen sink but magically getting off it, just in time to pass drug tests for 30 years, knock yourself out.

Do you believe that Darrem Charles was drug free when he was competing from the late 80s on until the early 2000s?

How are you comparing him in the bench video at 290 to now. he has at least 30 more pounds of muscle in that bench video then he does now, he is a monster in that video, bigger then Cormier and Levrone, but ya he is natural

Wake up people, this is how simple it is, do prop, tren, and var for as long as you want. Come off a few weeks out from your drug test and pass, abc's. it ain't no rocket science,

If you see a guy the size of the guys at the Olympia, obviously their juicing, unbelievable what people don't want to believe, what is wrong with you guys, woooooooooooosh.

this.i think people that havent been in hormones for a length of time miss how some peoples body weight jumps back forth so dramatically isnt cause of creatine.

I love the way so many on here say that you must be juiced in order to press anything above 400lbs.

I went to a 1-A high school with 280 students total, and we had two 500lbs pressers in my graduating class. The three of us started lifting weights at the same time at the end of our freshman year for varsity football prep. But once we got to about 200ish-lbs on a working bench set, I plateaued, and they kept on going....in fact when we started our junior year, by the time I got my "250lbs bench shirt", one already had his 450, and the other was working on his 425.

You just have to accept the fact that there are thousands of individuals who may or may not lift weights, that are naturally genetically superior than the average Joe...no matter how much carb timing, meal prepping, "visualization" of the workout one day prior you may do...with or without juice.

How are you comparing him in the bench video at 290 to now. he has at least 30 more pounds of muscle in that bench video then he does now, he is a monster in that video, bigger then Cormier and Levrone, but ya he is natural

Wake up people, this is how simple it is, do prop, tren, and var for as long as you want. Come off a few weeks out from your drug test and pass, abc's. it ain't no rocket science,

If you see a guy the size of the guys at the Olympia, obviously their juicing, unbelievable what people don't want to believe, what is wrong with you guys, woooooooooooosh.

They fall for the illusion that comes with being lean. When someone is extremely lean even if he's a twink and deadlifts 180kg for 2 reps everyone yells STEROIDS.

Yet you can have wr bench, be huge and people will believe you're natural just because you're not 8% bf and no veins are popping on your arms.

How are you comparing him in the bench video at 290 to now. he has at least 30 more pounds of muscle in that bench video then he does now, he is a monster in that video, bigger then Cormier and Levrone, but ya he is natural

Wake up people, this is how simple it is, do prop, tren, and var for as long as you want. Come off a few weeks out from your drug test and pass, abc's. it ain't no rocket science,

If you see a guy the size of the guys at the Olympia, obviously their juicing, unbelievable what people don't want to believe, what is wrong with you guys, woooooooooooosh.

OK they are the same size then, you are splitting hairs here. It doesn't matter how you slice it the guy is a fucken monster, he is huge bro, Olympia size huge and your delusion is also Olympia size huge too if you believe he is natural for even a second.

LMAO 290 in that condition at 5'10 would utterly dwarf guys like Sergio, Arnold, Franco, Arnold, Nubret, Gaspari, Samir, Dickerson, Labrada, Zane, and they were all juiced to the gills.

STOP bro you are making a fool out of yourself. Sorry for being rude but I see no other way to put it.

I love the way so many on here say that you must be juiced in order to press anything above 400lbs.

I went to a 1-A high school with 280 students total, and we had two 500lbs pressers in my graduating class. The three of us started lifting weights at the same time at the end of our freshman year for varsity football prep. But once we got to about 200ish-lbs on a working bench set, I plateaued, and they kept on going....in fact when we started our junior year, by the time I got my "250lbs bench shirt", one already had his 450, and the other was working on his 425.

You just have to accept the fact that there are thousands of individuals who may or may not lift weights, that are naturally genetically superior than the average Joe...no matter how much carb timing, meal prepping, "visualization" of the workout one day prior you may do...with or without juice.

Nice. Brings back memories. We had Iron Man shirts three different colors representing your total lifts bench, squat and power clean (red, blue and some other crap)

I agree also...had some strong dudes in HS man then there were guys who were just at another level of power.

OK they are the same size then, you are splitting hairs here. It doesn't matter how you slice it the guy is a fucken monster, he is huge bro, Olympia size huge and your delusion is also Olympia size huge too if you believe he is natural for even a second.

LMAO 290 in that condition at 5'10 would utterly dwarf guys like Sergio, Arnold, Franco, Arnold, Nubret, Gaspari, Samir, Dickerson, Labrada, Zane, and they were all juiced to the gills.

STOP bro you are making a fool out of yourself. Sorry for being rude but I see no other way to put it.

In that condition? You act as if Fletcher has ripped abs. Even in the video, he talks about his belly, hoping the cameraman doesn't focus on it.

Plus we've seen Fletcher, ripped (or close to it). Again, but for his arms, he resembles more of a light-heavyweight. He's not Olympia-size huge. Huge, in and of himself, ABSOLUTELY. But, he looks smaller at 290 than Levrone does at 265.

With regards to guys like Zane, Nubret, Gaspari, and Labrada, this may come as a shock to you; but there are those who can do more naturally than other can "juiced to the gills".

As I've said before, if you want to be one of those Getbiggers who think being natural means you're destined to be a twig, knock yourself out. Fletcher's records and rep look reasonable to me and, as stated earlier, I will give him the benefit of the doubt until I see evidence to the contrary.

What light-heavy, are you out of it or something, maybe now but from 290, he can not drop more 50 lb for contest shape there, no way, trust me I compete and I get people shredded for shows, lots of people and he ain't losing more then 50 lb

, which would still put him at 240. Use your head bro, there was no one at 240 contest contest shape at his height anywhere in the world before the juice existed, there was no one even 40lb of muscle smaller before the juice era., No where. Not in 70's, not in the 60' no where, why?..... lol cause protein shake and creatine didn't exist? NO, obviously cause the natural state of a human could not enter these boundaries or else we would have seen them in the 40's, 50's 60's and 70's and guess what we didn't, hell we barely saw anyone at his height over 200 and this was still juice era. Wake up brother, wake up.

I saw CT in person last year in Venice at a bench press comp. He's much older now and had a massive heart attack and nearly died. However he is still impressive and still has HUGE arms that are pretty ripped. No way do I believe the guy is/was natural. However he without a doubt has some impressive genetics.

I saw CT in person last year in Venice at a bench press comp. He's much older now and had a massive heart attack and nearly died. However he is still impressive and still has HUGE arms that are pretty ripped. No way do I believe the guy is/was natural. However he without a doubt has some impressive genetics.

Now think, you wouldn't even believe him now let alone 10-15 years ago when he was easily 30lb of muscle bigger.

What light-heavy, are you out of it or something, maybe now but from 290, he can not drop more 50 lb for contest shape there, no way, trust me I compete and I get people shredded for shows, lots of people and he ain't losing more then 50 lb

Did you not read what I said? He LOOKS like a light-heavyweight, except for his arms. He said he competes around 230. But, based on his shape and proportions, he doesn't quite lok the part.

, which would still put him at 240. Use your head bro, there was no one at 240 contest contest shape at his height anywhere in the world before the juice existed, there was no one even 40lb of muscle smaller before the juice era., No where. Not in 70's, not in the 60' no where, why?..... lol cause protein shake and creatine didn't exist? NO, obviously cause the natural state of a human could not enter these boundaries or else we would have seen them in the 40's, 50's 60's and 70's and guess what we didn't, hell we barely saw anyone at his height over 200 and this was still juice era. Wake up brother, wake up.

I never claimed he was in "contest contest shape". Fletcher himself admits he'll never be the most shredded onstage, carrying the size he wants to carry.

With that said, we have guys like Bill Pearl, who competed at 241 in the early 70s, albeit not ripped by today's standards (were he to do that, he'd be around 215 to 220).

Protein shakes didn't exist in the 60s and 70s? Does the name Rheo Blair ring a bell? As for creatine, guys got that, back in the day, via large amounts of red meat.

Again, if you want to believe people are destined to be twigs without steroids, knock yourself out. I'll take Fletcher's word for it, for the time being. Your screaming about how nobody can do squat without steroids is meaningless to me.

We are not talking about lifting, don't put words in my mouth, go back in this thread to some of my post, I said 400 is possible naturally, I even said 500 was possible naturally, go back and check.

Now before the juice era was anyone benching 600? NO,before the juice era was anyone the same size as Fletcher in the same condition, at the same height, hell NO. Bill Pearl was no where near this guy's size. You live in fantasy land if you think it's possible now but yet it never happened, not even once before the juice era.

We are not talking about lifting, don't put words in my mouth, go back in this thread to some of my post, I said 400 is possible naturally, I even said 500 was possible naturally, go back and check.

Now before the juice era was anyone benching 600? NO,before the juice era was anyone the same size as Fletcher in the same condition, at the same height, hell NO. Bill Pearl was no where near this guy's size. You live in fantasy land if you think it's possible now but yet it never happened, not even once before the juice era.

Speaking of Pearl, let's not forget the fact that he was a professional strongman, as well as a bodybuilder.

Maybe he didn't bench; but Pearl was, for his time, a beast in the strength department. And as far as being Fletcher's size goes, Pearl was actually bigger in competition weight (although not nearly as ripped) than Fletcher is.

Plus, Pearl never bulked up to 290, anyway; so, of course he wasn't Fletcher's off-season/powerlifter size.

BTW, I wasn't talking strictly about lifting. I know 500 lbs is possible drug-free. In fact, it's been done by guys nowhere near the size of Fletcher in his powerlifting prime such as Chris Bell (the guy who made the film, "Bigger, Stronger, Faster").

So a guy his size can get 500 drug-free, but a guy much larger and stronger can't possibly get 600 drug-free?

As I said, I'll give Fletcher the benefit of the doubt. You can believe nobody can hit 600 without roids, if you wish.

The world record for bench press was 500lb in the 50`s and it took 15 years for someone to break this record and then in the late 60`s someone hit 615. Use your head , what do think happened in those 15 years? It jumped up 115 lb instantly as soon as the juice hit the scene, before the juice 500 was the absolute limit and only done by one man.

The world record for bench press was 500lb in the 50`s and it took 15 years for someone to break this record and then in the late 60`s someone hit 615. Use your head , what do think happened in those 15 years? It jumped up 115 lb instantly as soon as the juice hit the scene, before the juice 500 was the absolute limit and only done by one man.

Try taking your own advice and use your head. Guys who were hitting 500 lbs were big, burly dudes, pushing 300 lbs. Now, we have guys who can do that naturally, that are in the low 200s (i.e. Chris Bell). A handful are under 200.

Drugs are hardly the lone or primary reason strength records have been equaled or exceeded by more people. One, there are more people involved in lifting than there were, back in the day.

Two, nutrition and training techniques have improved as well. In days of yore, only one guy could run a mile under 4 minutes. Now, plenty of people have done such. Does that mean they're all sticking syringes in their behinds? NOPE!!

So, your take that people barely over 200 can bench 500+ naturally but someone pushing three bills can't do the same with 600 makes no sense.

Back to Fletcher, he has done about as much as one could do, to make his point. Nearly all his lifts were in drug-tested federations, some of which test randomly (not just the day of the show or meet). And, he competes in arguably the strictest natural bodybuilding federation there is.

The law of averages would suggest that, were he cheating or doing half the mess you claim he is, he'd been caught by now or someone would have exposed him.

Having benched over 400 myself drug-free, while being nowhere near Fletcher's size, I hardly see such a feat (pushing 600+, without steroids) as unachievable.