Difficulty: ExpertSaturday, May 13, 2006

CHAT LOG for Saturday, May 13, 2006

done! either I'm getting real good or this one is too easy for an expert rating but I'll take the points.

12:34 am

polytriks

Were you able to solve w/o guessing?

12:45 am

polytriks

anyone solve this badboy?

12:45 am

Vega

Just did, but I made a guess.

12:46 am

polytriks

hmph - congrats anywho

12:59 am

rycaut

not sure if it deserves the expert rating - just got it myself

1:08 am

etrepum

that went quicker than most of the easy ones

1:15 am

architect.zero

done. but I had to guess and it fell into place from there

1:25 am

shortstop

done - made 1 guess also

1:35 am

sprite

morning all

1:36 am

Lamancha

Morning Siprte

1:36 am

Babbler

hi sprite : )

1:36 am

Lamancha

or even Sprite..!

1:36 am

sprite

bad boy? With so many givens? Sounds interesting! Hi all *hug*

2:03 am

Lamancha

Well I did it, this what was a hidden triple and I think a hidden pair - but my brain was hurting too much, so it could have been a lucky guess

2:04 am

Lamancha

Off to drop in on Babble

2:07 am

GingerUK

morning everyone... or evening, what's this expert like?

2:08 am

sprite

It's interesting! :)

2:08 am

GingerUK

ooohhh thanks Sprite... how you doing with it?

2:08 am

sprite

Just restarted ;)

2:09 am

GingerUK

been at it long/

2:10 am

sprite

I thought I should learn to work systematically, in stead of playing around intuitively... and I made a mistake somewhere very soon. So not too long, it was better to restart than to find the mistake.

2:10 am

GingerUK

I do that if the mistake isn't obvious. I try to be systematic but almost always end up being intuative!

2:12 am

sprite

Usually I hop around the grid like a madwoman, having a blast ;) Let's see if I can be systematic for once. Without mistakes.

2:12 am

GingerUK

I feel a little green man party coming on!

2:14 am

sprite

I believe raggedy finished this one without the green army.

2:15 am

GingerUK

wow!! I don't think I can, you need a bit of a photographic memory1

2:15 am

sprite

I am putting my little green soldiers in by hand right now. I feel that script some brilliant someone wrote for that purpose, gives too many possibles for me.

2:18 am

GingerUK

I used a few in the centre square but found an opening in the top 3 boxes so am going with them for now.

2:19 am

GingerUK

are you Dutch Sprite? if you are your english is fantastic!!

2:20 am

sprite

Totally Dutch, so thanks for that big compliment :)

2:20 am

GingerUK

:-)

2:23 am

shiroro

this one's unsolvable. seriously.

2:24 am

sprite

Some people managed to solve it, shiroro, so I think we need to look further :)

2:25 am

grigs

Done it's all logic based no brute force or guessing required

2:27 am

sprite

That is good to know. Thanks and congratz!

2:28 am

GingerUK

I have all 9's places....

2:33 am

sprite

I am doing great with the 6s.

2:33 am

GingerUK

hmmm I have 6/9 6's... will see if I can find other 3 :-)

2:34 am

mikehell

6's &9's don't require too much effort...

2:34 am

GingerUK

hi Mike.... LOL let us be happy :-)

2:35 am

sprite

That is if you're brilliant, mike. We are proud of ourselves :)

2:35 am

GingerUK

got them Sprite :-)

2:36 am

mikehell

Yes, I'm happy too. sleep would do wonders for my solving skills, but that has not been available lately :(

2:36 am

GingerUK

LOL Mike, I know that feeling!

2:37 am

sprite

To babblers and sudokuplayers sleep is an overestimated thing :)

2:37 am

mikehell

Yeasterdays Easy was unsolvable for my sleepless mind :)

2:38 am

sprite

Lol, I believe I restarted twice yesterday. Perhaps... well... SOME sleep could work miracles, I guess ;)

2:38 am

mikehell

and four nights in a row with little sleep, not good at all...

2:39 am

GingerUK

I had 2 restarts on it too but 2 days earlier I did the hard with no restart and in about an hour!!

2:39 am

sprite

I am pretty sure my brain is not compatible with the puzzle ratings here.

2:40 am

sprite

I have 2 rows! 2 and 3 :)

2:41 am

mikehell

At least mine isn't. throw few hidden triples that solve everything, and I'm so stuck that there is no way for me to solve those

2:41 am

GingerUK

I find removing the green army every now and them helps clarify things

2:41 am

GingerUK

wtg Sprite

2:41 am

sprite

I am being systematic for once and I must admit it is paying off. Got a column too, the middle one.

2:43 am

grzybu

done :)

2:43 am

sprite

wtg!

2:43 am

mikehell

Two rows and three boxes...

2:44 am

sprite

...and that column in the middle. We are at the same spot, mike!

2:44 am

mikehell

yep

2:44 am

GingerUK

I'm not!

2:45 am

sprite

But you will :)

2:45 am

bigshow

getting close now, 16 cells to go!

2:45 am

bigshow

getting close now, 16 cells to go!

2:45 am

sprite

Makes 32 ;)

2:45 am

bigshow

oops double post!

2:48 am

bigshow

noooooooooooo

2:48 am

bigshow

i've gone wrong somewhere

2:48 am

bigshow

son of a ......

2:48 am

sprite

Oh dear... pink alert?

2:48 am

bigshow

8 squares to go, and it's not possible to complete

2:48 am

sprite

That is nasty.

2:49 am

GingerUK

I have row 3 and need to solve a double for 2 and middle box

2:49 am

GingerUK

now kids are demanding breakfast1

2:49 am

sprite

How totally inconsiderate of them!

2:51 am

bigshow

omg, I can't see the fault, think it's time to start over :(

2:51 am

sprite

Always hate that when it happens.

2:51 am

bigshow

i'll come back to it later :)

2:52 am

GingerUK

now they are happy with cereal I can look again!

2:54 am

GingerUK

got row 2

2:54 am

sprite

Yeah!

2:55 am

GingerUK

and centre box... assuming I made a right decision!

2:56 am

sprite

center box sounds right.

2:58 am

sprite

Down to 16 and stuck.

2:59 am

mikehell

Stuck @ 24

2:59 am

GingerUK

I'm still a little behind you

3:00 am

mikehell

As I said, some of these "advanced" techniques are still too much for me to spot:(

3:01 am

sprite

Same here. I am doing one guess now, and it looks like it is falling all in place.

3:01 am

GingerUK

hmmm... 3 boxes complete, 2 and 3 on top and centre

3:03 am

sprite

You are following the same route as I did, Ginger :)

3:03 am

mikehell

There are so little open squares that guessing would solve this really easily

3:06 am

mikehell

But I don't want to guess...

3:07 am

shiroro

Every guess I made broke the puzzle, so I don't know what to do

3:07 am

sprite

Feels like giving up, doesn't it? I went back to before the guess too.

3:11 am

sprite

Yeah! A hidden triplet solved it for me.

3:11 am

GingerUK

wtg Sprite :)

3:12 am

mikehell

May I ask which row?

3:13 am

mikehell

So that I know what I'm looking for... Too blind to find them by my self

3:18 am

GingerUK

arghhhh pink attack!

3:20 am

Atalante

why was that an expert?? *blinks* or more importantly, why did I find that easier than some easies?

3:21 am

GingerUK

I think people solve things differently with different bits of their brain so I guess we all view the ease differently!! Did that make sense??

3:22 am

Kukana

I thought it started easily but am now totally stuck with 24 to go, can't see any hidden pairs or triples at all

3:27 am

shiroro

solved it with a good guess :<

3:27 am

GingerUK

wd

3:37 am

chebuctonian

hi all

3:37 am

chebuctonian

damn, expert!?

3:44 am

GingerUK

done!!!

3:47 am

chebuctonian

grats!

3:50 am

Kraszan

done :)

3:55 am

Kukana

Hmm, in desperation I tried two online solvers that gave explanations, and the both said it wasn't possible without guessing, once you get down to the last 24 boxes

3:58 am

chebuctonian

some of the online guessers are wrong :)

4:00 am

chebuctonian

wOOt! I did it :)

4:01 am

augurus

"It wasn't possible without guessing, once you get down to the last 24 boxes."

Incorrect.

4:02 am

Kukana

Well if there's a way to do the end without guessing, I'd love to know! Any hints??

5:44 am

lawfully

expert... is it bad?

5:58 am

Cathy

That one didn't seem too bad to me. I've only been playing a few months, and I just did it in less than 25 mins. I've struggled more with some of the Medium & Hard ones :)

6:21 am

augurus

Maybe it's just me, but recognizing 'deadly patterns' helps.

6:22 am

pthomp

not that bad

6:26 am

peternl

hi all, expert hey? What's a "Deadly pattern"?

6:28 am

MaW

all done. not too hard actually...

6:29 am

lawfully

I have 21 to go, all interlinked hopelessly...

7:02 am

Diane

I'm at 24 . . .

7:03 am

peternl

24 here

7:03 am

Diane

deceiving at first.

7:06 am

peternl

indeed

7:11 am

MrOoijer

I got stuck at 24 too and had to guess :-(

7:11 am

MrOoijer

now I am going to do the NRC sudoku of today

7:13 am

Diane

NRC of sudoku?

7:14 am

MrOoijer

it's a dutch newspaper that has a special kind of sudoku

7:15 am

MrOoijer

with four more "boxes" and very few clues to start with

7:15 am

Diane

ouch

7:42 am

peternl

finally

8:12 am

yul

hello everybody

8:12 am

kneestabber

hey yul

8:13 am

yul

i am flying to Barcelona in several hours, hope to do this expert one

8:13 am

yul

today

8:15 am

kneestabber

It's been going pretty quickly for me--hopefully it won't give you fits

8:16 am

yul

i have to stop chatting or i will make a mistake, asusual :)

8:18 am

kneestabber

alright good luck--and have a safe flight

8:18 am

yul

thanks

8:25 am

kneestabber

Done! Goodday all!

8:25 am

yul

buy kneestabber

8:35 am

sherb

Expert? ...quicker than some of the Easy ones...

8:51 am

yul

i was sooo close to making a mistake but everything happened to my delight ;)

8:52 am

yul

had to find a contradicting numbers, it did not flow naturally at the very end

8:53 am

yul

adios

9:14 am

lawfully

done... but I can't say it was easy...

9:43 am

tuco

This puzzle was said to be invalid by my puzzle verifier. hehe I guess it was wrong.

9:58 am

LeslieAnn

does anyone have the link for the explanation of all the strategies? i too am stuck at 24.

9:59 am

Douglas

heh, I'm at 24 too, though only just got here

9:59 am

LeslieAnn

i was stuck at 24 at 1 a.m., then decided to call it a night :)

10:04 am

LeslieAnn

stupid 7s and 8s

10:13 am

SunflowerSusy

LeslieAnn, click on the Help at upper right, go to Object of the Game, and it has the Wikipedia link in the explanation. I think that's what you want.

10:13 am

LeslieAnn

thanks sunflower, i think this is what i was looking for: http://www.angusj.com/sudoku/hints.php

10:30 am

Douglas

All done :)

10:36 am

LeslieAnn

douglas, a hint on how to beat the gridlock??

10:37 am

Perry

This site is good too - http://scanraid.com/BasicStrategies.htm#NP and http://scanraid.com/AdvanStrategies.htm

10:38 am

Perry

gotta run - good luck!

10:41 am

Moozey

twice I have done this one and get down to the last two square and find that I have gone wrong and it feels so easy, goodness knows where I keep going wrong

10:48 am

Moozey

third time lucky :o) See you all tomorrow

10:56 am

amess0312

man i'm stuck

10:57 am

amess0312

i've got it all broke down....but can't eliminate anything

11:00 am

amess0312

horray I guessed right and got it

11:00 am

amess0312

horray I guessed right and got it

11:00 am

amess0312

horray I guessed right and got it

11:05 am

Grace O'Malley

Hello Everybody

11:11 am

Grace O'Malley

Bye Everyone

11:11 am

scribble

bye grace!

11:12 am

scribble

hi everybody!

11:13 am

scribble

"expert" means "impossible"

11:24 am

Douglas

hi scribble :)

11:25 am

TP17

done.... got stuck on one box, made an elimination, then it all fell into place. good luck everybody

11:34 am

scribble

oh....hi douglas! sry i got a little sidetracked.

11:45 am

miller da killer

hi everyone!

11:46 am

Limer

Hey, Miller da killer

11:46 am

miller da killer

so an expert,eh? i've been having a hard time with the hards these days, so this one may prove to elude me!

11:49 am

miller da killer

it's a beautiful, sunny saturday morning over here!!! are you all blessed with wonderful weather where you are?

11:49 am

hurshy

so-so

11:50 am

btwrt

it is cold and rainy here

11:50 am

Limer

No, cold, windy, wet. Good day to do Sudoku

11:50 am

hurshy

and babble!

11:50 am

Limer

Listening to Paul Colman Trio

11:50 am

miller da killer

creedance clearwater revival here.

11:51 am

hurshy

oooh i love them

11:51 am

btwrt

sarah brightman

11:52 am

miller da killer

me too!!!

11:53 am

Limer

Lots of good tunes out there.

11:54 am

miller da killer

didn't sarah brightman play christine in the phantom of the opera movie that came out in the 1980's?

11:55 am

btwrt

did they do a phantom of the opera movie in the 80's? she was in the play, at least

11:55 am

btwrt

she was in the original london cast of the play

11:55 am

btwrt

i'm listening to her 'classics' cd, i quite like it

11:55 am

miller da killer

my sister is a phantom geek, and she has informed me that, yes, there was a movie in the 80's with her in it/

11:56 am

Limer

Just say the Play Phantom up at Grand Rapids.

11:56 am

btwrt

ahh ok :) i haven't seen that one. i saw the recent one, and i liked it very much

11:56 am

miller da killer

the music of the night was actually written for her when she was married to andrew lloyd weber.

11:56 am

miller da killer

i liked the recent one too.

11:56 am

btwrt

right - andrew pretty much tailored the songs to her capabilities

11:57 am

miller da killer

that's probably why no one else can really sing them as well.

11:57 am

Limer

Ha.

11:57 am

Limer

Nailed that puppy!

11:57 am

Limer

Rank me, baby!

11:57 am

miller da killer

i try so hard to master those high notes, but lets face it, i'm no opera singer.

11:57 am

miller da killer

:(

11:57 am

miller da killer

actually i'm no singer at all, but that won't ever stop me.

11:58 am

Limer

Need tighter underwear

11:58 am

miller da killer

and limer you make me jealous!

11:58 am

hurshy

lol

11:58 am

Limer

I can't sing opera

11:58 am

miller da killer

tighter underwear help you sing better?

11:58 am

btwrt

yeah, i sing the high notes so i like to listen to this kind of thing

11:58 am

Limer

No reason to be jealous

11:59 am

miller da killer

I'M SO CONFUSED!!! do the tight underwear help with sudoku or with opera singing?

11:59 am

Limer

Tight undies help with singing. That and a sharp fork

12:00 pm

miller da killer

ahh. i see. i'm singing right now as we speak.

12:01 pm

Limer

Sounds good.

12:01 pm

Limer

Sounds good.

12:01 pm

miller da killer

:) but not in tight underwear lol

12:01 pm

Limer

LLLLLLLLLAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGg

12:02 pm

Limer

tmi

12:09 pm

miller da killer

but i'm not in underwear!

12:10 pm

Limer

Niether am I

12:14 pm

miller da killer

my computer is not letting me post all these things, they just keep disappearing.

12:14 pm

Limer

That one came through

12:17 pm

miller da killer

grrr... i don't have a very good internet connection here obviously.

12:18 pm

Limer

Mines slow also

12:20 pm

Limer

Ha

12:21 pm

Limer

Nailed the May 2nd puzz;e

12:21 pm

Limer

oops

12:22 pm

miller da killer

grr.... have to start over. bye everyone!!!

12:22 pm

btwrt

awww that sux

12:24 pm

miller da killer

ok, now that these are posting, maybe i'll stick around.

12:26 pm

miller da killer

sorry i was posting all that stuff over and over, it's just that i think my internet went into hibernation while you guys got to see all the frustration i was feeling

12:27 pm

btwrt

s'ok

12:27 pm

btwrt

i'm done, yay! :D

12:27 pm

miller da killer

good job!!!

12:28 pm

btwrt

thx :) i'm bad, i guessed. i was down to only 5 numbers left over ... 1,3,5,7,8 ... and i could not figure out anyway to solve it

12:28 pm

thedave

ya - that's where I'm stuck

12:29 pm

btwrt

i couldn't even figure out a way to use x-wing ... and that's my only advanced technique ;)

12:29 pm

miller da killer

if it makes you feel better, i don't think i have ANY advanced techniques.

12:30 pm

jamaca05

I normally never figure one out that harder than medium, this one I have finished!!!

12:30 pm

btwrt

awesome job, jamaca!

12:31 pm

jamaca05

thank you, lunch is over- now back to work

12:31 pm

miller da killer

yeah, good job.

12:31 pm

btwrt

k c-ya :)

12:38 pm

scribble

wow this is easy!

12:38 pm

btwrt

have you finished, scribble?

12:38 pm

btwrt

for me, it seemed super easy until almost at the end, i got totally stuck

12:38 pm

scribble

no but its going along quite nicely.

12:39 pm

scribble

oh....well i guess ill be there before too long...

12:39 pm

miller da killer

yes i think i'm at that point now.

12:39 pm

scribble

well the 6s were super simple.

12:40 pm

btwrt

the 9s are very easy, to

12:40 pm

btwrt

*too

12:40 pm

scribble

im headin there next.

12:43 pm

scribble

wow the nine were really easy.

12:44 pm

scribble

gonna do the ones

12:46 pm

scribble

well that wasnt very straightforward.

12:46 pm

miller da killer

woohoo!!! done and gotta dash. bye all!

12:46 pm

btwrt

hmm?

12:46 pm

btwrt

good job miller! :) c-ya

12:46 pm

scribble

good job miller! bye!

12:47 pm

scribble

maybe i should do the 3s...

12:48 pm

scribble

nope

12:50 pm

uiklop

that wasn't as hard as some

12:51 pm

scribble

not feeling that way at the moment...

12:53 pm

Krys10

Scribble, I foun the 2's to be pretty simple...

12:53 pm

Krys10

Scribble, I found the 2's to be pretty simple...

12:53 pm

scribble

idk if these are posting or not....but im afraid to refresh.

12:53 pm

Krys10

today might be a good day to do this on paper :)

12:54 pm

scribble

thanks krys.

12:55 pm

scribble

sry i had to open another window to see the chat, on the one im workin on it wont work.

12:56 pm

Krys10

bah, have to go to the post office. back later!

12:57 pm

scribble

c-ya! :)

1:08 pm

helenkeller

go

1:10 pm

sowandreap

done finally

1:21 pm

helenkeller

done

1:22 pm

helenkeller

13 minutes - huh - this is one of those "easy" ones deceiving itself into thinking it's hard, lol

2:14 pm

Linda

back to try again. i messed up earlier. thought it was really easy, but how wrong one can be!

2:34 pm

hman

Yeah, it was deceivingly easy at the beginning.

4:00 pm

dinoshadow

I'm finding that out now, was able to place a lot before having to go green

4:07 pm

noblelover

hey people...

5:20 pm

sinnergy

that was really easy.

5:20 pm

sinnergy

weird

6:25 pm

zemoxian

Well, that was no 3/18

6:25 pm

zemoxian

I don't think that deserves an "Expert"

6:41 pm

peternl

March 28 is fun too

6:42 pm

zemoxian

I took several tries to get through 3/18

6:42 pm

zemoxian

I zipped through today's

6:43 pm

zemoxian

I'm doing a medium now. It is taking me longer just to fill in the greens. :-P

6:49 pm

Michal

i cant finish it!!

6:50 pm

Michal

still got 24 blanks

6:53 pm

zemoxian

I filled in quite a bit before I started to put the green numbers. Then once I got to a point that I didn't see another move, it took a guess.

6:53 pm

Michal

me 2... a wrong guess...

6:53 pm

zemoxian

it just happened to be the right one

6:53 pm

Michal

lucky u!

6:54 pm

Michal

im not that lucky

6:54 pm

zemoxian

Well, what I'd do is remove that choice as invalid and take another one. THat was what I was expecting to have to do

6:56 pm

Michal

i cant remember what i did...:)

6:56 pm

peternl

What I do is copy the screen as a picture,open it in AppleWorks, make two copies and follow two "guesses" simultaneously

6:56 pm

Michal

didnt think of that...

6:56 pm

peternl

Usually one of the guesses leads to a contradiction fairly quickly

6:57 pm

peternl

I find as a last resort for hard/experts, it works quite well

6:57 pm

Michal

i want to do it withoutguessing..

6:58 pm

peternl

Although I'm doing March 28's now, and that's providng challenging...

6:58 pm

Grace O'Malley

Hello Everyone

6:58 pm

Michal

hello

6:58 pm

peternl

<y way, I don't consider it guessing if you've proved one possibility leads to a contradiction

6:58 pm

Michal

i guess...

6:59 pm

peternl

My definition is "You guessed the solution if, when finished, you do not *know* that there is *only one* solution"

6:59 pm

zemoxian

Not all puzzles can be done without guessing. I had to guess several times on 3/18. I became quite effecient at it. :-)

6:59 pm

Michal

:)

7:02 pm

zemoxian

peternl, I don't think that follows. I see guessing--the way I do it--as testing a hypothesis

7:02 pm

Grace O'Malley

Bye Guys have fun

7:02 pm

zemoxian

Bye Grace

7:02 pm

peternl

zem: That's fine, as long as you test all hypothesis', then it's no longer a guess, it's a proof

7:03 pm

zemoxian

Besides, if you solve it by brute force, you could find one solution while another may exist.

7:04 pm

peternl

That's what I mean, that would be guessing. Unless you solved it by brute force and tried each variant, not just stopped when one worked

7:06 pm

zemoxian

Well, I guess my objective has been to find a solution, not all. I've just assumed the puzzle maker would choose single solution puzzles.

7:08 pm

peternl

I think the definition of sudoku requires a single solution for a puzzle to be strictly valid. I just use my definition to distinguish between a complex contradiction elimination proof and a guess and hope for the best.

7:09 pm

zemoxian

:-)

7:13 pm

Michal

finished!

7:13 pm

Michal

ith guessing...

7:13 pm

Michal

with*

7:18 pm

zemoxian

cool!

7:19 pm

scribble

grrrrrrrr.....i had to start over.

7:19 pm

zemoxian

I made a mistake somewhere in the medium and I'll be starting that over.

7:20 pm

zemoxian

Hi scribble

7:20 pm

scribble

hey zemox :)

7:22 pm

zemoxian

I finished today's "Expert" in record time. Now, I've just been beay by a medium. :-P

7:23 pm

scribble

i had all of this done except 2 numbers....and found out that i messed up. :(

7:23 pm

David Mitchell

Oooh, "expert"!

7:24 pm

scribble

oh joy

7:24 pm

scribble

:P

7:25 pm

David Mitchell

Sorry, scribble

7:25 pm

David Mitchell

I don't know if I'll be able to solve it

7:25 pm

David Mitchell

but I like a challenge

7:26 pm

scribble

its fairly easy....til you get down to the last box and mess up.

7:26 pm

David Mitchell

Heh

7:27 pm

zemoxian

It was over too soon for me

7:28 pm

LeslieAnn

do you folks who are done have any hints for the last hurdle? i have 24 boxes left and *seem* hopelessly stuck

7:28 pm

zemoxian

I did guess, but I guessed right and it solved itself after that

7:29 pm

zemoxian

I did a checkpoint and took a guess.

7:29 pm

David Mitchell

Not yet, Leslie Ann

7:29 pm

LeslieAnn

well that is a good hint! :) i think i will have to resort to that.

7:33 pm

David Mitchell

It's hard to believe it'll get hard when it's going so easily so far

7:37 pm

hurshy

it's not too bad david... just's needs a "forcing chain" at the end

7:38 pm

David Mitchell

Eeep

7:38 pm

jojomnky

ack i'm scared i dont know forcing chains

7:39 pm

hurshy

it's just a fancy name for a guess :)

7:39 pm

zemoxian

that must be why I had to guess. I've read about those, but I'm still not clear about them

7:39 pm

LeslieAnn

is that it hursh? i've been staring at it all day SURE that i could get it :)

7:39 pm

zemoxian

oh

7:39 pm

hurshy

since we have two colors though, if you're all marked up in green, i just change a set to red as i work the guess through, so that i don't lose any info.

7:40 pm

jojomnky

smart.. though my linux box doesnt like the alt+click

7:40 pm

zemoxian

I'm lazy, I just checkpoint right before I guess

7:41 pm

hurshy

i do both :)

7:42 pm

hurshy

when it comes to experts, from now on, i don't mess around. measure twice, cut once, as the carpenters say.