Greedy Goblin

Monday, May 17, 2010

Shamelessly stacking the raid

We got it sometimes that we can do the content because we stack the raid with [insert whatever class someone considers OP]. This time we had 2 DKs, 2 paladins, 2 shamans, warrior, mage, druid, rogue. What was the logic behind this HC stacking? These people were online, besides a priest who lagged terribly.

Such no-lifer raid composition always has its results:

We killed him despite someone came up with the great idea to stay together during bone storm (I dead instantly, resurrected, we ran away after). The rogue died due to standing next to the tanks. Again: an ICC boss was killed in blue gear, with bad raid composition and one dead.

On LDW our HC stacking got its drawback: we lacked physical DPS. We had a warrior tank and a rogue. The DKs are just half-physical as the diseases are magical. On the top of that the rogue was mutilate, couldn't switch targets fast. After he retalented combat and equipped a slow main hand axe, his DPS fell to the ground. But he leveled axe skill up to 67 on that try!

Luckily for us a hunter came online, so we could reach P2, despite a death in the first seconds and me wanting to cast frostfire bolt on mbarr procs (was frost all raid before). Next week, Mrs Kel'Thuzzad will be down for sure!

As you most probably figured that out, if we want to stop stacking the raid according to "who are online", we need more people, especially warlock, spriest, DPS warrior. But any other is welcomed! Join and be one of those who clear ICC in only blue gear!

42 comments:

Anonymous
said...

While some have been saying on comments on this site, and on the wow official boards, that this doesn't prove anything due to higher gear scores compensating for PUGging issues, my feeling is that this is incredible. The goal of this project was to eliminate the stigma of 'you must have this ICC++ uber GS to compete at an ICC level'. On the contrary, if everyone knows what they are doing, and some communication is going on, 3k+DPS and cool heads are all that is needed to see additional end-game raid content.

One suggestion on your next attempt, can you please show a video? This was asked of your shaman(can't remember his/her name) on the EU forums, but it would be beneficial to see the attempt and successful clearing of these bosses in blues.

Way to go! Nice to see that you keep progressing in spite of the challenge. And I'm not talking about the gear, I'm talking about the difficulty in recruiting these days that I believe most guilds are enduring.

Looking forward to see further reports, curious to see how far you may go!

BTW I'm sorry if I've reaad a bit carelessly, but what do you do with the gear that drops? Shard it? Save it in storage in the bank?

First off, congratulations!Second - I saw your logs and if I'm looking at the right chart I see that your raid does 15k DPS.That's nice, but if I calculate right, for Festergut your raid needs (Fester health) / (enrage timer) = DPS, which is 13, 666, 100 / 300 secs ~= 45, 555 DPS, which in turn, means that if you've got 2 VERY good healers + 2 tanks doing above 2k DPS around 7k per DPS member. Though I doubt it, I hope you down it, but if this doesnt happen what follows? perhaps raising the gear level to Ulduar? Best wishes!P.S correct me, if my math is wrong.

So here’s what I don’t get. You claim to be rational above all else. How is it that, with no improvements in your gear, you intend to kill Festergut ? On top of that I think that I’m being VERY kind by giving your raiders an average DPS of 3500 seing as most of you are usually sitting at 2500. But the number generated from an average dps of 2800 were simply too sad to process.

Congratulations on Marrowgar, but that one almost we all saw coming (I posted it last week on this forum).I have checked your logs, especially the last one when you "beat" phase one (with three people dead). What your group could have done better is that the DPS DK should have gone Blood and be on adds instead on Boss. Also hunter should have respecced to MM if you had issues with physical damage. I know both specs would be lower DPS (at least on that gear level for hunter) but on this gear level the DPS decrease is not dramatic.The shammy died because of DnD... well you cant afford that :)Then your tank got hit by 25K in just one second when the Deformed add was there - you will just have to pray this doesnt happen - or tank needs to blow his CDs when Deformed add is there. Or it was simply because your healer died just a moment earlier. And also it looks like the rogue overaggroed tank when nuking adherent. Hard to tell from here if it was tank´s or rogue´s fault. These are things that you can improve.What you will have BIG BIG BIG problems with - after successfully getting to phase 2 - and that is Enrage timer sitting at 10 minutes.I know your rogue died at the beginning and but even with him you had 15% time left and DW was at 98% health (47% actually). So if your raid can produce 40% more DPS (???) and sit on 20K in phase 2, then you will need 2:30 to kill her. That means you will absolutely HAVE to interrupt every single Frostbolt volley and you cant afford a single one Vengeful shade explosion.

Guys and girls, please don't assume that our Marrowgar dps is our average dps. It's actually pretty low. We ran with 4 healers and 4 dps, one of which was dead for over half the fight, and another with a sub-optimal talent spec (Koltas went frost to give replenishment buff, he's normally arcane). It's also not a "stand and nuke boss" fight.

We'll deal with the Festergut fight when we get there. Nice to see that people expect us to get to him though.

I guess the strategy for Festergut involves plate-DDs popping cooldowns to get a couple stacks of Gastric Bloat. Perhaps a rogue but I doubt he can be healed through it due to dimitri ritörn on dodge ;)

>>Then your tank got hit by 25K in just one second when the Deformed add was there - you will just have to pray this doesnt happen - or tank needs to blow his CDs when Deformed add is there.<<

Erm..... I am extremely confused by this statement. Surely all that the tank actually needs to do is *kite* the deformed add - this is certainly the way it is in 25 man, and I would imagine that taking a hit in 10 man from a deformed fanatic is a *very* bad thing - one way to do it is to trade taunts to keep him wandering back and forth while the ranged DPS kill him.

@Weapon - My blue geared Lock for the Undergeared project on US side easily puts out 2k dps in 5 man heroics. Without food or flask buffs and usually only one of mage/pally/druid buffs plus self buffs (spellstone).

There's blue, and then there's 'twinked' blue. We capped ourselves at blue, but that doesn't mean we run around unenchanted/ungemmed. My lock has 1800-1900 SP, +10% hit unbuffed.

My lock and mage are fully enchanted/gemmed as well. My lock puts out about 2k dps in heroics, my (arcane) mage around 3500 (both on 5 man heroic bosses). Both are geared poorly (each with a couple i200 epics, several sub-i200 blues, and a green or two)

Well, Koltas usually died because of my fault - I had a terrible reaction time that evening, my talent spec was changed to get some more health and needs to be thought over for ICC because of no dodge. The new spec will increase my dps too I think. Anyway, as we tried LDW we got better and better with everey try and got to the phase 2 in the las wipe. Next week, she WILL die. If we have enough people online that is...

For those of you whining about warlock dps, I stripped down to completely naked + fishing rod in a 25man VoA once. I pulled between 1.5 and 2.1k dps. Granted, that's with a lot of buffs that won't be present in a 10man, but stop saying things like "I don't think a blue geared lock can do more than 1.8k".

If you can't pull more than 1.8k as a warlock in blue gear, it means you're bad at playing the class.

If it feels like a success to you, then rock on. Gevlon, on the other hand, has set the goalposts at killing Arthas.

It's not that we number-crunchers have confidence in your tanks and healers, it's that there are a lot of unknowns that make modeling their performance in advance with any accuracy impossible. DPS on Festergut is a much less uncertain calculation. These numbers say that more dps is needed than has been present in any previous boss fight, based on the logs. My doubt in the feasibility of this project has always been based on this. If that damage can be found somewhere, then that will be interesting.

honestly? People think blue locks are that bad? With my poor skill at the class and a grand total of 2 epics (and non-enchanted blues) I manage 3,8k on 25m. Meaning a blue geared/twinked lock with skill can easily beat 3,5k on 10m.