Welcome to a new world of quality music for the Offensive. Composed entirely of heavy metal witnessing songs, Immortality By Death tackles the answers to some of life's toughest questions in a thrilling new, Generation Y presentation. Get ready to shake your country to its foundations. Turn up the volume and prepare for the energy that will boil your blood and make your hair stand on end.Immortality By Death is melodic death metal, guaranteed to make you sad, glad, or fighting mad.Let the metal move you.

Special Thanks To: "Shem for sponsoring the recording of this (album), Joe Amaranthine for lending us the magic of his spellbinding vocals, Steven McNair for using his talented ears and valuable time to master these songs, Ntl for his advice on the recording and mix, Anna for the five minutes she spent helping us create Requiem For A Dream, DJ/RICO/Rick for the labours of love they spent building the studio with us."

it's spelled KNOWN*...even rants should be grammatically correct, as should definitions of words like talented or spellbinding, which do not, unfortunately, mean desperately mediocre or prepubescently irritating, and as such, should not have been used in the credits. Fortune favors the brave, however, and this album was brave....if little else

This album is repugnant and intolerable. The next time you dare even hint you play melodic death metal, listen to the first albums of In Flames (not the later ones), the first albums of Dark Tranquility (not the later ones), Insomnium and Mors Principium Est before you spurt pus and bile out of your trap like a rotting cunt with the plague.True Metal artists don't "try" to make metal. They simply play whatever they feel in their guts. They will admit they play metal, but those who advertise they are metalheads bg and loud are usually the ones who aren't.You have bred to the world a song with the same title as one of my favourite movies (Requiem for a Dream) and your song is so irritating that I find myself wishing I could have been listening to Avril Lavigne instead.You have turned one of Hans Zimmer's songs, him...one of the greatest composers of our modern times, into a latrine in which sloshed dushbags excrement and vomit in.All in all, I hope you are profoundly proud of this curious endeavour of yours that only solidified your positions as possibly the most ridiculous wannabes to ever roam on the dung heap of maggots.You are the most intolerable herd of steaming social animals I've ever had the misfortune of turning my nose up to.I spurn as I would spurn a rabid dog.Have a great day.

I dunna get it. Why do people have to write all sorts of weird stuff? I mean, like the music or don't like it. Can someone explain why people write things like "****ing lame" and "this album was brave....if little else"? I mean... if you don't like the music, don't listen to it! Sometimes the most wisdom is shown in silence. And I'm not only talking about this music. I'm talking about any music. If you like it and want to scream it out, do so! If you don't like it, show wisdom and maturity by holding your tongue, even if you think the person is wrong."Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."Imagine you spent a lot of your free time to make some songs that you like and you post them on your blog, hoping to share it with whoever likes it as well. Then these people come and start criticizing it. Come on, show some respect!

Look I am not portraying my utter dislike for this...curious sound rubbish, I am merely stating my temper at their audacity, and disregard, for naming what they play "metal" and for insulting "Requiem for a Dream" and Hans Zimmer.Cherish my sincerest wishes for you fine blokes to play on as family musicians for the Lord for those of them who find the spirit in what you play, and my best regards in that I meant no offence in what I said.My only reproach is your audacity, which should be corrected.Sleep on it.Good day.

3. the act or art of analyzing and evaluating or judging the quality of a literary or artistic work, musical performance, art exhibit, dramatic production, etc.4. a critical comment, article, or essay; critique.

5. any of various methods of studying texts or documents for the purpose of dating or reconstructing them, evaluating their authenticity, analyzing their content or style, etc.: historical criticism; literary criticism.

"As you have done it to the least of these my brethren you have done it unto me".

So if you are potty mouthing people you are doing that to who? Oh thats right Jesus.

I dont know any of the people behind the album, and you know what? I dont like metal. But I like even less all this bad mouthing which only reflect badly on those saying it. Its childish at best, if you have something to say, say it the right way. If not keep silent.

haven't heard it yet, I'll download and listen to it when i have time. Reading these comments however, is disgusting me. whoever is writing this stuff, I'll venture to say you're in the family. I'll also venture to say, you don't act like it. You're embarrassing yourself trying to use big words, and there is really no reason in the world for someone who is supposed to be in the family using such voracity in his word usage. Also, it seems you like metal. I do too, and that's why even if I listen to this album, and it makes me cringe, I'm still gunna have to tell these guys, 'God bless you.' It's well nigh impossible to record and publish metal in the family, and it takes a LOT of perseverance, trust me, I know. I don't really care if what they are making does sound like rubbish, I'm proud of them for trying. To Amaranthine, I'll try out your album. To you, anonymous, have a nice day my dear, I really do mean that.

haha...wow. Judging by these comments, perhaps fortune does not favor the brave, after all. It is true, that those involved, musical genre considered, bit off more than they could chew and ended up with something rather mediocre. But they tried...and that is to be commended. And one day...one shining day, Amaranthine is going to find something he doesn't suck at...and the rest of you will be sorry. In the meantime, easy on the graphic rants...

Joe, I just have a question. I'm not trying to be ca "hater", I'm sure the CD is great for those into this music, but, is it "Family"? Because from what I understand these other guys aren't in the Family. I'm not saying it's bad if it isn't, I just want to know. I could be wrong, let me know, ok?--A Friend

Why can't you people stop "system" bashing? what has the "system" ever done to you except support your leeching parasitical lifestyle?! When will you realize that no one is out to get u people simply cuz the "system" doesn't give a damn bout you.

As far as the music is concerned, I think Danny is an amazing talent and Amaranthine's vocals suit the overall sound of the band amazingly well.

ok , so i might be biased, but i think its pretty good. especially requiem for a dream. the hanz zimmer tribute is beautiful. it gives me goose bumps. i dont know why some people are hating so much, maybe its something personal (you can't even identify yourselves), but unless you show you can do better (and even that would be subjective), why dont you stop insulting other peoples work.

Anonymous is not one person, Nora...in case you missed this part of blogging logic, it's what anyone that can't be bothered to put a face to an obvious debate...especially a heated one, will choose to name themselves as. So in this case it could well be 15 people.By the way...The Drug Store album by the band Naked in Texas is what you call a witnessing album. They could be screaming car commercials behind all the synthed electronic drivel on this album, for all the hearer knows. Nice Guitar though...

Good stuff, pretty good quality, a lot better than I expected. There's so much I want to know about the album, what guitar amps did you use? Did you use real drums? How did you record and mic everything? Who arranged the songs?

I work in a studio recording and producing music as well, so I'm always interested in different Family band recording techniques, we have a witnessing song that we recorded (We're also working on an album) you can check it out at www.myspace.com/caneycreekheroes it's punk music but I mean I really appreciate and like to learn about producing all styles of music. Thanks,

Oh yes, and Esther, if you are going to post, don't worry, I don't think you have to... lots of ppl already said what I wanted to hear :DI really like the One day song and the... ... don't member.. one was good... i think I might get used to it :D

I think... the funniest comment was "And one day...one shining day, Amaranthine is going to find something he doesn't suck at...and the rest of you will be sorry. In the meantime, easy on the graphic rants..." Oh that made me laugh! God bless!

I really liked your song! I just think the "thousand dreams on paper things" shouldn't have been sung so many times during the song. other than that, thanks a lot! I'll be looking forward to your album!

OK.. some one posted a link to my blog here, witch i think is great, i'm never scared of giving my opinion in regards to anything even if it means having people trowing comments back on me.When it comes to Music i have a really strong opinion on what is "hearable" or even acceptable.I'm not a stupid dorky guy who just listens to pop. My musical taste starts on classics, like Mozart and Beethoven, goes all the way throw Queen, Beatles, Rolling Stones, Jimmy Hendrix and others and finishes on Red Hot Chili Peppers, Joe Satriani, Steve Vai and Dream Theater. My favorite style is Progressive Rock.I really like Dream Theater songs, and the heavy ones too, like Honor Thy Father, In the Name of God and others(just hate the new album).But when it comes to DEATH METAL (Stop and reflect on what the name means) i don't even think it is music anymore, it is just a lot of distortion and screams...If someone does not agree with me, it's fine, just stop and think a little... does Death Metal, demonic album covers, and screams make you think of god?Don't think so! The world has a lot of darkness already, bring some light god dammit.Can darkness defeat darkness???

By not saying anything you are automatically agreeing with it. It means you have no personality and that you are easily washed with the current.

I agree with what was posted in the Enlata blog by Urias. We in the Family are meant to be a light of Gods love to the world. I don't see how music like this with unintelligible lyrics accomplishes this? Please explain?

Just by the Looks of the cover doesn't make me think of revolution. Or does it to you?

A shining example of the true revolutionary spirit in which this Family was founded on is the new naked album. I take my hat off for the Prophet Bus guys who are contributing their grain of sand towards the continuing of TRUE REVOLUTION!!

and u shouldnt say that their fans are mindless, its just mean.but yes its true , all these evil bands should start making more gay music , like pop.but instead of making fun of them you should pray for them, its the nice thing to do.whats would Jesus do ?

Dude, not wanting to attack anyone, but I thought we had just about reached our limit when it comes to TRASH METAL with Bonty of Dragons. Man!! So many good options of style and look what these guys choose! It gives the impression that the more diabolical you appear to be, the more people (in this case the devils people) will take an interest in your music. So I ask myself “what target audience are these guys trying to reach with the kind of trash music they are producing?”!?!? Ok………. So they want to reach the lost in the garbage dumps of the system, but man, it seems they are trying to convert the Devil himself with their screaming!!How do they expect to use this type of music in their witnessing???Now I ask myself how much time these guys must spend listening to the systems TRASH METAL music….. If they want to listen to it among themselves and compete on who can scream the worst, fine…… but don’t go spreading it so anyone and everyone will have access to your TRASH! I am honestly concerned with the younger crowd in the Family who are easy influenced. I truly don’t understand how there can be so many people who support that style of music, and I think you should be really careful when you take the liberty to call something FAMILY MUSIC!

Putting musical differences aside... just the cover of your album gives me the creeps. If your supposed purpose is witnessing music for the Offensive and "to turn this world upside down with Love" I just don't see how you're going to get it done through this kind of music. There is no one in the "flock" or target audience of our home who I could reach, feed, love or inspire to do more for the Lord through this music, if anything, it would turn them off. They have plenty of it out there and of great quality. We definitely need more witnessing songs, but these songs just don't cut it. Speaking in practical terms, how do we use this in our witnessing???

I wonder if the members and producers of this band could simply explain how unintelligible lyrics and album cover like the one shown above could foster the spirit of Revolution this Family was built on and still stands on?

And if it were meant for witnessing, how would someone get the spirit of it and the message? Would the cover do it? Maybe the style and lyrics??? Maybe?

For all those you want to read the “polemic post” in my blog here is the translated version by Google translator

See the original post on: http://enlatabaleia.blogspot.com/2008/12/amaranthine-immortality-by-death-da.html

TRANSLATION:

Opaaaa oh wow! I am here again, this time not to bring any boring work of layout that I did, but to share my frustration about certain songs of the family!

First I want to tell you that I appreciate the effort and time that the musicians take creating, rehearsing, recording, mastered, cleaning the earth, planting, watering, fertilized to be harvested and transported to the market (echo in the background: " markeeeet " ) and all other "ingredients" of that "banana there" to make music for the family, even if some do not satisfy my musical taste and even if I do not listen to it much.

If you are a musician, if you make music for the family, GBY! But despite everything I think the style of music should have a limit, and it certainly is a fine line easy to cross (by accident or by a "majeure force" that leads you to turn on that distortion that seems more like his mother-in-law snoring in amplifier, and to yelling into the microphone, as a Chiuauas constipated after eating 67.5 times its own weight in pounds of raw meat)! The worse is that they do not realize that they crossed the line, like a man who is gay but does not realize until a " majeure force" "forces" him to use pink lipstick, wear that ridiculous and out of fashion skirt of his ex ex girlfriend, and participate in the gay parade in São Paulo only for "fun"! Well .. Today arriving home discovered through our friend Cappuccino a new album!

Ok… lets go:

The covers are the result of the following factors ... bad taste, "amateurism", horrible colors, diabolical style, very poor quality, among other factors rather not mention here. If the goal was to be something fascinating, excuse me, but passed away! The style you chose is very poor and nothing original, and is "shaded" (to not say dark, couse it has a racist connotation, which is not politically correct, ha) and demonic. If the goal is merely foolishness, well, it does not look like it!

Here are the covers for whoever wants too see: If you do not want to see follow the instructions: 1 - close your eyes. 2 - If you are already with eyes closed how you're reading this?? 3 - Stop spying and close your eyes now! 4 - Now with closed eyes turn the scroll of your mouse 1 time. 5 - If you do not have scroll, press the "PageDown" button twice, which is there on top of the arrow of your keyboard, right there, along with the other buttons (that if you are not a nerd) you never used before in your life! 6 - If you were a nerd you wold’n not be reading this stupid manual! 7 - If none of the above worked for you, get a paper bag and see the pictures!(THE COVERS HERE)Ok. .. Now before we move to the music take a time to brush your teeth because I can feel your vomit breath from here!

Aaaa, so much better!Back to the subject ... the heavy style of the music it’s almost acceptable but when you start the vocal... what is that?? As if it was not enough the "To the Death" Album of the "Bounty of Dragons" (that same kind of heavy music and demonic screming)!(PLAYER HERE)Are you serious! Don’t they think stem is enough to make half the population of young people of the Family deaf! But seriously it crossed the acceptable standard of style! What’s next? The guy yelling "Satan for Christ"!?

If you have "music talent"(or if that is what you think… prove it), a band, studio ... MAKE SOMETHINK LIKE A PROGRESSIVE ROCK!

If you enjoy this garbage that some dare call it music, or you want to see a description of the album (which is hilarious) here is the link for the blog: http://joeamaranthine.blogspot.com/2008/12/immortality-by-death.html

okay now this mr. Curirin guy is obviously a sheltered local who needs to open his heart and mind and stop being so churchy. Sorry not everything is going to be balloons and flowers, the cover depicts the sacrifice Jesus made for you and the world....through his death we are given immortality...don't be an old bottle.

your "rip-off" album sucks, in all honesty. You know when you lack crativity and have to scrounge for other artists work, and claim it to be your own. The family will never be what it can be, because they are so obviously a bunch of wannabe fakes trying to take credit for 'the systemites songs' that rock to make up for their own lack of talent.Find your own sound, style, and maybe you will be something that we can look up to. I would rather listen to britney!!

Now mr. Anonymous (2 messeges up)... before i knew anything about this album or your band, or even before i knew you guys existed, the first thing i saw was the cover of the album, and what it spooked to me was... Death, Hell, Demons, Devil, Satanism, nothing even close to what you said above... """the cover depicts the sacrifice Jesus made for you and the world....through his death we are given immortality...don't be an old bottle."""

Now I understand... people need to see the covers, hear your musics, download and read the lyrics, read the album description, read the comments on the blog, phone you guys so they can start to understand what the message is and what the f..... this album is all about!!!!It's not a clear message like the message that Jesus give us... "Love you God and your neighbors".Just stop and think a little with an receptive mind!

This lame conversation about Jesus sacrifice it is just an excuse for you to make your corny "album" and then say that just because the lyrics talk about "revolution or Jesus or fight the system"or Whatever, means that we can produce the kind of music we want, provided they speak of Jesus?

For all those who know nothing about music which it seems most of the people who commented on here don’t. The musical genre of the album is metal so for the person who said “music is music you shouldn’t classify as a certain genre”, they are obviously musically retarded and shouldn’t even be posting up comments regarding music. Every artist labels their album or song composition to a certain genre going all the way back to Mozart. I’m sure you can look it up yourselves for different examples. As far as the talent on this album, I personally think it’s really amazing, the guitar work is astounding and original as well as the drums.

For all the people who claim this album to be a “rip off” please tell me song by song which one is a “rip is off” and to which song it was “ripped off” from. Are far as the vocals I’m not a particular fan of growling but hey they’re millions of people who are fans of growling. And the albums cover… OMG why are you people getting all squeamish about it??? Because it doesn’t signify bright happy cheeriness of life, well I didn’t think the film Passion of Christ did either. And this when it gets really stupid, someone criticizing it??? As if the creator of it claimed it to be a work of art, people its just a album cover that’s all it is. Seriously some people really need to get a life…

BTW the reason why i want to know which songs are a "rip off" and what song it was ripped off from, is because I honestly really liked the songs and maybe the songs that they were "ripped off" from are maybe even better

the guitar riffs are not originals and are well predictable! Man those riffs I use to play when I was 14 years old!hahahahahahha Nothing new and original!and i agree with all guys said about this shit "music"

I was just reading all these comments and couldn't hold myself back anymore.... I had to say something. I, personally, like a lot of different styles of music. My world is made up of music. I am a musician myself, and I admire other musicians that arent afraid to dare. But I just want to say one thing, well actually two things. They are what I would call "constructive criticism":

1. Art is more then mere expression. Art is the ability to make others FEEL what you are expressing.

2. we don't fight fire with fire. If you want people to change, then, give them another option. They have to follow us not us them.

hey guys, I love you, and we are in the family to help each other fulfill their mission here on earth, not make it harder, I think that you guys, as musicians, are not bad at all. But as messengers of Christ I think that you could do a better job.

PS I think that everyone that criticized you on this blog are just as unoriginal as they claim you to be, with echos of Rowan Atkinson and other ORIGINAL comedians and critics. Don't listen to them, they are just trying to be cool without the main ingredient. God bless

I have to admit... as much as I like metal, I couldn't help but agreeing with Curirin, Calebe and Mike... they're posts expressed my thoughts perfectly... and yeah we may seem like old bottles.... but defending it won't get you anywhere either.....Mari

Don’t know which one is more pathetic, extremely sheltered family boys and girls who don’t have any idea what they’re talking about trying to be music critics…Or me actually reading this blog and posting something up

weehooooo....look at all the attention ur getting joe, people are getting really creative. You are the most intolerable herd of steaming social animals I've ever had the misfortune of turning my nose up to....some chick called you talentless....did you know joe makes amazingly flawless omelette and can use chopsticks with ONE hand...and above there is an x member with my name who seems to know more about music then all the family musicians in the world. what a turn up. im just posting to be in vogue.....my 2 cents is ur awesome and i love you

ugh u family ppl are acting extremely morbid...why dont u get real job..acc work..make money...or if u really wanna be in the family..please for ur own sake..& most of all for person ur supposed to be dedicating ur life too( btw if u dont no who that is yet..its the lord..or jesus)... do something useful for him..or a needy sheep..instead..u come here with ur insolent talk & behavior @ things u no not of...just cause u have nothing better to do...so to sum up..do something worthwhile..listen to the music u like..cease to talk @ stuff u dont no @..u only make urself look ridiculously stupid & dim witted!!!

B.I.p.s..for the sake of my dear buddie Joe who kindly asked me to refrain from using "bad" words...this is the cleaned up version...c being nice..does work..

ok to all you muscially challenged ppl/ppl that cant speak enligsh, ill put it in real simple terms.

remeber how in before rock and hip hop were considered evil demonic african jungle rock. now...thats how you guys soud right now, sorry but everyone else is laughing at you...sorry...here, have a biscuit

yes gabi you can get a biscuit but not your brother because he made a "bad taste, "amateurism", horrible colors, diabolical style, very poor quality, among other factors album cover... he only gets half a biscuit

I for one, would really like to read what the band members and producers have to say.

So far I haven't read a single comment from them, unless of course they are commenting as anonymous. Doesn't give you any cred if you are.

Also, I don't agree with comments that are degrading and name calling. We should have ethics and if we are going to give criticism it should be done the right way without degrading and name calling.

My point isn't really about the technical aspect of these songs, whether the arrangements are good or original, or whether the album cover is pro or not. I think that is the least of my worries.

For me is just what message are we giving? Bottom line is... we won't be using this type of music in our witnessing. Like someone said, it doesn't really fall under any of the goals for the Family Offensive (maybe in your home it does, don't know). I can't see myself giving this to my sheep or Active members to listen to and expect them to get fed.

So who will most probably end up listening to this is our younger bros and sisters. I wonder what kind of message and example we are giving them? But then again, maybe this isn't much of a concern for you.

"omg...steven..as in uncle steven?...man i havnt heard it yet but..this means this album is the bomb!...wait a minute...no way...RANDY? SONNY? get outa here...this is way cool!""whoohoo i gotta download this stuff mastered by stevey....oh yesss IBD ROCKKKKSsss all other family 'metal' bands...whoohoo"

Wow. Such love! dude...Seriously.

For the record, I like Joe. Attempting to make what what I had to work with slightly more listen-able was a Favor for a friend. But, I tend agree with most of the opinions here. I DON'T agree with they way certain people are choosing to Express them. I'm not really "supporting" this project, and Joe knows that.

Hey, from a technical viewpoint, the album has some Great guitar work, Some great drumming and Nice arrangements.Sadly the Mixing was pretty bad, (Don't blame danny because he probably didn't have the training or the gear, and metal is pretty hard to "get right".) The vocals might 3-4 db too low, etc. God bless them for trying to stretch in family music. But that, and the playing is all I can really give kudos too.I also wonder about the usefulness of constant screaming. If the words were discernible, that would be one thing. Too bad 80 percent of this album's vocals are incoherent blood curdling yells- which in some circles might still be cool, I personally feel understanding the words are the make or break it point for a Christian in this genre. I guess that factor combined with the less then stellar tones, mixing, and recording chain resulting in the sound you've ended up with is a little Much IMO.

I wonder what You think (just fer the record) on exactly what you think this would classify under, seeing as most of the band isn't in the family. I think at best you could call it brackish? hm.

It's possible as most of the band is out of the family most of them just need a target audience for their music, and since obviously the system is used to much higher standards, the band chose to start here? I dunno. All In all Joe, Love you bro, haha. would love to see your thoughts on some of the more "worth your time" questions brought up in the comments. God bless,Steve

Well beside the fact that unless you are used to this type of music and have ok sound equipment(i have a MP3 Player that works in one ear) you wont be able to understand the words in the song.

I still remember when our parents first heard the FFT's and DC band, they thought it was system trash as well...... and some of them still cant catch one word out of those songs... it really depends on where you are from and what back ground you grew up in..... with all the REAL trash out there in the that constantly playing around us would it not be better to use what the devil has tried to subject all his people to and use it for the lord.

I mean just because that type of music is not in our taste or our style that doesn't mean that it is bad or evil. Remember what happened with Peter and the Animals(New Testament), the Lord told Peter to eat things that even we now days would not touch.Why? Because it was a new day and new things where needed. If it is not to your tastes and if your Bro/Sis or sheep would not benefit from it then don't give it to them. But i can think of some of my Family(who are out now, and into the devils form of Death Metal) who might like this stuff.(probably can understand the words too) I also enjoy hearing listening to this. My tastes run over a grand scale, i enjoy things from classical to Reggaeton.... from gushy love songs to, well, stuff like this(and also Bounty of Dragons). My fave Family band right now is SOE..... and i personal know a lot of people in the Family(both young and old) cant understand these songs and call them crap. But the other day i was reading Mom's Blog and guess what.... Mom listened to some Salt of Earth.... and, pleasant surprise, she understood and liked it. And she even said "if i didn't understand the words then i might not have liked it"( http://mama.familymembers.com/?p=576 )...

P.S. I am in no way saying that Moma likes any of the songs on this album or that she likes this type of music.... i am just saying that when listening to SOE, she 'Listened to it first... tried to understand it and liked the message it gave.

So just cause you cant understand some thing doesnt mean it is bad or wrong. Goes with the old story of the farmer and the giraffe. If i cant see it(hear/understand the words) it must not be real(must be of Satan).

Not every one can eat the same thing... one mans meat is another mans poison. So if it is not your meat... don't go labeling it poison. Just don't listen to it yourself. I personal think that even some of the stuff that comes out on CD for the kids will leave them with a bad musical education as they grow up(not that the music or message is bad, just the style is not musically educational).... but what do i do, i don't use it myself.... other parents do, and for them and there kids it is fine.... but if i ever do have kids i don't think i would put it on for them .....not that i think it is poison, just it doesn't go to my music taste.

Well enough said and done... Joe you are a great Guy and i know that you are trying to do some thing great for the Lord and your fellow Family Members by putting this out... and i respect you for that, if nothing else.

First of all, thank u so much 4 ur support! With almost 1,500 hits in the first two and a half days, this has gone much farther than i expected. i want 2 thank all of u who have helped 2 spread this music around thru unselfishly allowing our spam on ur blogs, linking 2 this page, forwarding our messages 2 ur contacts, downloading the album, etc. thank u!

u will notice some comments were removed...........this was because they either exhibited extremely distasteful language, or were quite unkind 2 persons other than myself, which i'm sorry 2 say, is just not love.

a valid point was raised as 2 how 2 use this music in ur witnessing, and i wanted 2 address that. weell we wouldn't argue with u if u wanted 2 learn these songs in ur bands and play them--i'm sure there are many venues that eat up this style.....many more than the actual positive uplifting songs written 4 them. --you could even translate them into your local language and go a lot farther with it!...........ha no but seriously, the main thing we had in mind is that there are A LOT of youth out there who listen 2 metal--even a lot of searching, hungry youth who are desperate 4 a cause 2 rebel for and give their lives 2. there have been even a few system christian metal bands out there trying 2 make a dent in this harvest but why shouldn't the family have a piece of that? amen? besides which, only we have such amazing exact truths about the spirit world and the freedom of such that we can then clinch the deal with. thank god there is getting 2 be quite a canon of family punk, rap, and even metal that we can offer our more radical flocks as a healthy alternative 2 their usual diets, wtv they might be into. (don't tell me u there are no sheep who are into metal..? ....fine.... i have 1, at least there's 1!)

2 u who have complaints against this style and its excessive screaming, i don't think u are old bottles at all. frankly, between u and me i think ur the sane ones here and the rest of us are a little bit whacked. honestly i don't really even listen 2 half these songs........it's just endless RAARRRAAARAARRR and then a lead. hahah danny i told u man. i'm not really a metalhead, i'm more......easy listening. well actually i listen 2 them when working out sometimes, because seriously.......there's really no better way 2 pump that iron, man, ya!

but if u don't like those then i highly recommend 2 u track number 05 which is all very peaceful and harmonic and kind of like....bedtime metal...! how about it?

i haven't seen any1 comment on the purity of the lyrics, and as i believe that is still how we judge family music, i guess that angle is fine. it's true u at 1st have 2 understand what they're saying, but give it a few listens...it's really not that hard 2 decipher with the lyrics.

and sebastian, i love that 1st song of u guys. i want 2 know who wrote it and.. and... i want advance copies of all the rest! seriously, that naked album was right on, a feast of witnessing songs! and some1 mentioned bounty of dragons--amen! god bless abner 4 pioneering the way in actual family metal--owe u man, big time. and let's not 4get the other recent witnessing albums that u guys missed in the comparing--a huge shout out 2 our other contemporaries in metal or at least rock--spirit tree (creation 2 chaos), nomad (vegal om), whiskeyfist and their bone-jarring singles, shunnie and his not so cheap productions, sam fuller and his nudity..................

just 4 the record, i would prefer if this did not turn into a hatefest with all the usual ugly little heads and all their usual dead-horse-beaten angles popping up again. so iiiiifffffff u can find it within urselves 2 at least stay NICE about them, then i will be able 2 find it in myself 2 allow ur conflicting points of views 2 be HEARD, LIKE THEY SHOULD BE! cool? cool.

I have an idea. What if those of you who dont enjoy this music just happily refrain from listening. It has been said in the word that its not the style of the music that makes it acceptable or not. understandably this might seem harsh and unpleasant to some of you, but thats no excuse to spout off insults and and your bigoted opinions...try to be nice. have an opinion my all means...but keep it to yourself(lol). also for those of you comlaining about not understanding the vocals try just to think of it as instrumental music the vocals being just another instrument. Think, how many of you complain because you can't understand the lyrics in some of mozarts operas too good? ... bye bye, have fun ,make love to your peers.

PS. how many of you realize that lots of breads chapatis, focaccia,bagels, and even some buns dont typically get sliced and thus will never really be the coolest thing?

Ok... not to judge anyone, ill try to put it short. How the hell are we teens or older people going to witness to the lost people with this kind of music? Screeming...drums super high...can't even hear the dudes voice. Give me a break. Look at the pic of the album...JESUS CHRIST! Are u ppl still in the family? Bad quality the photo... Looks like "I'm from hell" sourd of deal. Were is the "Ofensive" suppoused to go? Aren't we the "family" suppoused to go up? Win more souls, new family members, ex-family members? What is the vision? I can say: This album is freaky... i don't wanna know if it's STEM ppl that sings it or Vas, Goodfrey or wtv. Just by seeing the album photo it makes me...(better not say) How are we suppoused to show these kind of music to our friends that want to join the family? And say "yep...this Trash Metal album is from the family dudes..." sorry to say but it's sad... I agree %100 with Curirin. What is the goal? Save the lost or became one? Help us dear Lord... Lancy

Um...to the Brazilians who are stumbled by the album cover, yes it is a depiction of HELL!!...the sacrifice that Jesus went through to save yes, those souls in hell, through his death you and me receive immortality!!

Danny, It's not the metal people have problems with (not most anyway) In this case, the problem (I'm guessing) is mostly technical things which add up to make a generally noisy album of confusion (for the listener). IMO Metal is so noisy and fast and angry already (which is good) that it's got so much potential to sound plain old off the beam If the vocal Can't be heard and the music is messy and distorted because of the mix and tones.we need to hear the words (at least like....70 percent or something haha) or it's seriously just a guy yelling bloody murder- Which doesn't sound really uplifting. So I personally think with the vocals up a lot the music would be a little more meaningful. more people would "get it". Also with a cleaner recording, (for next time) people might be able to Tolerate it?

Gosh... for Christians u ppl are pretty foul-mouthed and not very supportive. This isn't my fave type of music, but i still think people shouldn't whine about it. Just don't listen to it. True that you cant really understand a word of what he screams, Its a lil rough on the ears, and the reasons they made the album aren't very clear, but I really don't agree with the Brazilian outrage of people bashing the album, and talking like sailors. I have some advice for you..

1) If you dont like it, theres no need to spaz out. just don't listen to it.

2)If you think it will reflect bad on the family, don't sweat it...it won't, its NOT an official Family album. So again, dont get ur panties up in a knot. What CAN reflect bad on the Family is ALL THE TRASH TALK and putting down!

3)Stop wasting your time posting things here...like I am. (especially if you're just gonna trash-talk like a trucker-meets-sailor-had-a-baby.

Are YOU in the Family, Lancy? Right before you asked that question to the band members, you took THE LORDS name in vain. Methinks you are a self righteous hypocrite.As far as how to use this in your witnessing, two comments above yours explained how you might be able to. Learn how to read, and while you're at it, please, please, learn how to spell!

and FYI, DANNY IS THE BEST 2ND GEN GUITARIST THAT WAS OR EVER WILL BE...sorry benji and any others none of you guys have had the training, classes or experience that could even bring you halfway to his standards. Ask any guitarist that has tried playing with him....and btw, his music has been listenend to by others not "in the fold" who have been impressed, referring to track 5... the other songs are a bit hard to hear if you're not into that genre but the beats are original enough and the guitar work goes way past any other Family band so far....

it was 3:00 am when i cudnt sleep...tossing and turning all night..i finally decided to tern on this new cd every1 seems to be talking about...the songs were nice...it calmed..relaxed..even soothed me in a way...just when i was about to catch a wink of sleep...'KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK' on my door..."open up" the voice said..."or else imma break the door down" my heart started pounding faster and faster suddenly....DOOSH!!..the door was broken down masked men with flashlights and guns! i shuttered suddenly just then the chorus of requiem for a dream came on...(joe singing) "AND IN YOUR MIND YOU HEAR THE SCREAMING TELLING U TO LEAVE IT ALL BEHIND" as soon as that line was bolted out the two gunman/robbers collapsed and burst out into tears "IM SO SORRY" one said..."hey lets get outa here man" the other one said..."we still have time to change"...and then thats when it hit me...music can make u mad sad or glad...it doesnt matter..but one thing i do know is....Joes song changed the hearts and minds of those robbers...who knows maybe they were just a couple of street kids..who were lookin fer answers...so thank u joe..thank u so so much

Music is a subject very dear to us all. I think the most spirited (heated) discussions I’ve ever seen have been on the subject of music. (I once saw a reggae fan and a metal fan get into it…arrg) We love music! It’s our passion! So we’re very expressive and graphic as we discuss it. But I suspect, a lot comes down to what we like or don’t like. And we need to learn to express better our likes and dislikes.

Remember back in the ALU days, when Joe would post his songs, and everyone would be at his throat just because he sang out of tune or in falsetto? Now Joe’s voice has matured (He has a pretty cool witnessing song on the MO site), and maybe our comments and criticisms must too.

People screw up. They do that. We all do -- even when our intentions are the best. And when I screw up, and someone starts yelling and screaming at me, it sure doesn’t help, nor does it make me think that maybe, just maybe, my deeds were not totally pure and uninfluenced by my own “sinful nature”.

Isn’t it ironic how we’re all screaming here — some in an album, others in comments — all the while arguing about the best way to get a message across. I suspect that somewhere down the line we’ll all learn from this day and see that we could have done things better.

Tomorrow there will be more albums and this one won’t be the controversial item it is today. Many will still be enjoying it, but it won’t matter so much if people defended it or attacked it. What will matter and have enduring effects is the way we discuss and communicate, here and elsewhere — it could even be the difference between one of us deciding to hold on a little longer, or just quitting.

To the musicians… GBY for the time and effort in making this album, and for working to make a difference. I understand from the comments that you (or some of you) are ex-members. If that’s so, all the more reason to admire you. I know how easy it is to just walk away from it all and forget your heritage. I did that when I was out. GBY for staying true to what you believe in.

To those who like OR dislike the album… take it to the Lord. Counsel. Find the Lord’s will. Don’t try to cram your view down your brother’s throat. He WON’T listen like that. Let brotherly love continue, and there are better chances you’ll find God’s perfect will and balance.

There’s something about unconditional love that helps and changes more lives than all the yelling put together.

Hey, here’s an idea. How about we asked the Lord about the post’s we’ve made so far to see if we should take steps to make amends (like we do after a real life argument)?

hahaha with all this talk it's only gonna make more people wanna listen to the album... i think it's gonna back fire on all the jealous bitter haters, and of course those dear sweet simpletons from brazil... btw just because your music is samba doesn't mean metal is bad

this shows that you do not know anything about Brazil!And that probably most of the suckers who liked this garbage, do not know how to play any musical instruments!That's why you liked this "album"if you had a good musical taste, you would not hear this crappy album!!!

awwwww our poor dear sweet simpleton brothers in the Lord from brazil I wish I could speak Portuguese so I could better communicate with you… anyhue you simpletons need to learn how to chill why you getting so angry over nothing… just continue to dance to that samba.. I know I would if I was in brazil

Wow, it's such a nice breath of fresh air to read a decent comment whether it's for or against. Steve, Chris and Joe showed decency in presenting their points. GBY! That is the beauty in debates when both sides can express their sentiments without infringing or degrading the the opinions of others.

Personally speaking, I think it was rather confusing for me when I read the advertisement Joe had given to the album, at first glance it was rather interesting but later was greatly disappointed with the outcome. Having recently made the decision to stay in the Family has made my outlook on things really change. Call me an old bottle or old fashion but the music that has survived through out all these years has been those old time, simple, spirit filled songs that started THE REVOLUTION and it's something that I felt again with SOE and Naked.

Reminds me a lot of the good ol' MO letter "Musical Key". Maybe it will do us some good to re-read this letter or maybe to read it for the first time if you haven't yet and also the "Sequel to Musical Key". Dad had a lot of good counsel to give on this subject. I must hand it to you that at least it got a lot of people talking. Ha! Including me!

I will end my participation here on this subject, don't really see the need for it anymore. It's not my cup of tea at all and I also won't be doing any promoting of it also. That is my personal stance!

One thing that I would like to say though to all you people who like to bash... WE ARE ALL PART OF THE SAME FAMILY! I may not agree with certain actions of individuals but we are in this together. I'm here trying to make a difference in my part of the world and I would like to believe that that is also the true genuine feeling and consent of those involved in this album and those commenting. Correct? Great... we agree to disagree but we are still brothers in arms fighting for the same cause.

You suffer in silenceDisregard what few dare to loseCrying behind your smileBetray your instincts only to proveConforming is the way of the wretchedAnd you’re a rebel born to defyWhat’s the point in pleasing the massesIf their liberty’s just a lie?

Cast out from among themSeparated from the restBurning as a living sacrificeBranded a heretic

Given the mark of a traitorRetribution’s only begunThey say you turned your back on your saviorThat your time of purpose is doneThe corrupted speak these deceptions Exploit the words of Christ to restrainOppression is the way of the tyrant But they cannot keep us contained

Their flames of hatred burnBut our hope burns brighter stillShadows of sorrow fadeWe will not fall again

Never forget this momentNever forget our dreamsEven as you die a martyrThe voice of freedom screams

Oh gosh, sigh. About half way thru i stopped reading all you (yucky) people´s slanderous hateful spiteful mean terrible yucky words (thats what they are, even if they´re honest. what gives you the right to be so terrible? They ARE humans you know. They didnt do anything to you. Talking like that puts you on a notch just a tiney bit less than human). I might personally not like the screaming/growling/whatever u want to call it, but maybe thats just cuz i like one particular style. and i dont know anything. Least im honest and dont try to pretend i know so much about metal.

I have one thing to say for these guys (that made this awesomely awesome album):

They that live godly in christ jesus shall suffer persecution!!! yayyy!!!!

Oh and im not in the fam.Cheers and go eat some humble pie and, uh, play with your dollies.

Ok i have to add my two sense to the steaming pile of comments on this blog.Joe, you and I have never seen eye to eye, on music especially. However, I must admit this music aint bad. Resembles Dream Theater, a bit.The screaming killed it. Most people around here arent too into it. Of course i wont make the Daniel/professionals mistake and saying no one likes it, but it aint too popular. The music was good tho, at least in my rather generous opinion.If you have the minus-1 to these songs please send em, as I enjoyed the music.

good stuff guyz, and and anonymous shut the fuck up u God Damned Brit!! what the hell is wrong with u Brits!!always thinking they're so eloquent and intellectual but in reality ur just a whole bunch of imbeciles!!forgive my comment everyone

I think you guys did a good job because ppl cants stop talking about it. like a friend once told me "I'd rather be looked over then over looked" and "talk good or talk bad of me, but, talk of me"It was a good friend, and a good council.

To the writers:

Now I agree with Mike, we shouldn't be so aggressive in our speech, we are after all on the same team.Be it musicians or simply music lovers ( in my case both), I think we should be honest, polite, and use words that we wouldn't mind having to swallow later. Im from Brazil which shows that it doesn't matter were you're from. Samba for those who never heard it is one of the most advanced styles of music as is "bossa nova" and "chorinho" which are very alike jazz.

for the band:

I'll have to agree with the comments regarding the vocals. Being a vocalist my self I think ( and this is just my humble opinion) that it could be a little less "screamed". as for the rest I like it the drums were fine the guitar was great(within that particular style), just remembering that complex music is attractive but its the simple music that is beautiful, I know its a tough realization for most beginning musicians (it was for me at least). read micheal pianos testimony, it delivers it so much better then I ever could.

and to rap this up, dont stop daring guys, learn from past mistakes, make new ones and always make sure its a new one and you will know you are progressing

Mike said it!!! Oh an ppl, just 4 ur little info, i can tell that %99.9 of family don't like Samba, and yes Rock, Trance and other. I think u guys should get and advice from the Musicians from mexico, and like Mike said "Sequel to Musical Key" Ooops that's Dad...

Joe, are you deleting Danny’s comments??? Btw is that Danny from the band IBD because I heard that he had the most to do with the album, so out of curiosity (and I think speak on the behalf on most people who have been on this site) that we all would like to see what Danny has to say

Holy Grail!!! *thinks of what to write next*...I'm somewhat over whelmed by so much nonsense...but i'll get over it. Okay, I guess i'll comment to Steve:

yeah dude, I have love within me...tough love. hehe

Yeah, the recording sucks we know, but demos are demos..we didn't expect the recording to be that great, we will record a full album soon. I know, myself, that recording issues can have a some certain impact on how the music's emotions are sent....and anyone who has a decent knowledge of recording knows that...but you can't really judge how the musician or vocalist is through the bad recording can you? so forget the bad recording and listen to the technical side of the music.

And secondly, in the metal scene, meldoic metal right now is mostly full 100 percent growlings or screeming. Usually to understand the lyrics ppl would jsut search it up...and then memorize it or sumthing...

And thirdly, heh, it's kinda funny how you said that we wanted some sort of fan base in the family becuz of our music would suck in the system?... heh heh. now thats love dude...seriously.

And last...Steve. do you ever listen to system metal bands for the techincal side of things? like vas er sumthing does...or whatever... maybe you don't, but i think you should. I'm currently in another country that my is in right now, and have been for a while..but we'll get together soon to spend more time on our album.

Okay, that said i'll be waiting for ur reply. Thank you all you people for the love. we're feeling it!! mwah.

Mom said:I love the lyrics, just beautiful. And of course I love Joe's singing (bedtime metal indeed) and it's probablygood for pumping iron. I agree with Joe though that there ARE SHEEP out there who are into metal and screaming, and I think this album has a place and a use, and I know of one band already (in a faraway place) who is interesting in possibly using some of the songs.

"And thirdly, heh, it's kinda funny how you said that we wanted some sort of fan base in the family becuz of our music would suck in the system?... heh heh. now thats love dude...seriously."

Hey randy,

GBY dude.Um, well, It is a Legitimate Question, bro. It's not like I never thought those things myself! I didn't mean or say it quite like you did though. the comment was made solely in reference to the technical side of things, not the creative side. I thought to some extent it's a possibility (though probably more of a unsaid thing) seeing most of you guys Left the family (the Questions people have about that here haven't been addressed yet). I mean really, If people are going to be fed from this, we have to understand where you are coming from. Not that Being out of the Family Is the end of the world, I'd maybe like to hear what you guys in the band really are thinking about the issues and discussion from Concerned guys, rather then "whooowhooing" and passing biscuits. It's cool you can come down and talk randy. Are some of the band members going to rejoin? are Most of the Band members still Keeping to the core of our religion and living inward and outwardly Christian lives? I don't want to sound like an ASS or a self righteous bigot, but these things do make a difference as far and weather this is acceptable family music or not. you see what I mean? It's not "Just the lyrics". And I say that with all due respect. I'm not pointing fingers AT ALL, I honestly ask.

"And last...Steve. do you ever listen to system metal bands for the techincal side of things?"

Ha, Yeah Of course I need to use commercial reference music for what I do. Only in the studio though. I try to keep up with stuff.

"And secondly, in the metal scene, meldoic metal right now is mostly full 100 percent growlings or screeming. Usually to understand the lyrics ppl would jsut search it up...and then memorize it or sumthing..."

I know that. I'm not the only one here with questions about the usefulness of inaudible words in music. Yeah, Mama said is the words are pure it is pure. I'm pretty sure she's talking about Hearing the words. How can lyrics alone make a song pure If you cant understand them and it's constant screaming? (Maybe they can, I don't know. But don't act like it's not even up for discussion- I'm not the only one who wonders about this direction) I heard a demo from 10 bullet plan. Andrew yelling bloody murder as always, But his vocal was Loud, and clear with distinguishable lyrics. I thought the song was heavy and sweet. and I know where Andrew is coming from, at least a bit. see what I'm saying?

And...I know I'm just one guy and one opinion. This whole topic of pure and brackish and where the line is as far as "what God considers Music" is so big and vague so I really don't know much. I don't mean to offend or cram stuff down peoples throats. Aight? what I have done is spent a lot of brain power trying to understand the spiritual principles behind music, from the Word and from experience.don't know everything, and I'm only trying to be a help in the end.

You know Steve most of the original family song writers have left the family & just because they did it doesn't make their songs less "family worthy", so just because some members of the band have left the family it shouldn't make the songs less "family worthy"

Heh. Sopie. Steve is asking this to see where the band is currently coming from as far as the message of their music. The "original family songwriters" wrote songs that reflected their dedication and passion to serve the Lord at the time they wrote the song, which is why those songs remain as wholesome family music.

I'm going to listen through the whole album before I comment in full. I did however like tracks five and six.

K, well, steve your questions are completely out of whack and unecessary if you're going to start delving into the attitudes and where people are coming from as someone stated all the songs that made the "music that made revolution" those ones have all left and including a large number of singers and songwriters from the FTT's, LJ etc. It doesn't really matter where its coming from. You do sound self-righteous and obviously are, as if it's any of your business, being an "offensive warrior" or a "FD disciple" is more than a state of mind or heart, if you were busy doing those things you wouldn't be taking your time writing on some blog but probably better using your time to feed the sheep? Lets ask you Steve, are you Loving Jesus, practicing the LOL in all your actions? Are you meditating, memorizing the Keys? How many keys and verses and passages do you know? Are you faithful with your prayer vigils? Your quality word time and prophecy? Are you asking Him everything on a day to day basis, when people watch you do they see reflections of Jesus? How many souls have you won today, how many people have you brought closer to Him? Where are you coming from? Its not about works or positions or titles as the brazilians like to point out but about you and your own walk with God.

You feeble minded people, allowing other peoples ipinions to dictate your happiness and state of mind. Show some respectable character for crying out loud!! You're proving to go against all you claim to stand for and promote.

Hey Sophie, Link answered just what I was thinking. I think that question is in the word...somewhere."Its not about works or positions or titles as the brazilians like to point out but about you and your own walk with God."

Isn't...that...what I said? WHAT is family music anon? WHAT defines pure waters? Pure music need to be from people who live the revolution for Jesus right?, In or out of the family. thats my point, which I think I made pretty clear. I'll remind I wasn't the first to ask this.Not saying you guys in the band aren't really dedicated. I'm just making this point, because in general when people LEAVE the family thats what It means more or less.Anyway, I'm not here to argue and point fingers. So If people just want to argue and be a moron, I'm outta here.

At least maybe someone will think about what I had to say (which WAS NOT very negative...If I ever came across as BASHING without trying to offer help or a solution or pose an honest question, I'm honestly really sorry). GBY guys all. have a good one.

And for you kids screaming "metal metal more metal shut up Steve you SR freak" I mastered this so whoever WOULD listen to it (like you, I guess) could have a slightly more enjoyable experience. have some respect.

aww i didnt know danny's album would get ppl so riled up...cute..first japan vs gabi now brazil vs danny..hehe..joe when will u unite countries "to go on the attack" with ur music?..kaha ..anyway im not gonna bother talking about the music cuz pfft...all im gonna say is danny, caleb, paul, joe and whoever else u guys are such shiners.:) My real question is about the cover.... seriously???!!? did that cover stumble u?? what exactly was it...was it the color red mixed with black? or maybe the word "death" not only once but twice...GASP! scary...I mean i was staring at it for a while really trying to see the....."bad taste, "amateurism", horrible colors, diabolical style, very poor quality, among other factors rather not mention here"but sigh...nothing happend...so im really wondering what is so devilish and hell resembling about it.and ugh man that whole instruction thing vomiting scenario u put...sheesh...LAME! "If the goal is merely foolishness, well, give me a break!!anyway please lemme know that i 2 may see the light about this green door... oops i mean redish/blackish/deathly demonic cover.

PS. caleb ur comments r the best so far...i bought a bunch of cookies and biscuits after this...oh and haha that italian man..haha...GBH..so cute imagine all with an italian accent...awww

Stevey: Not that Being out of the Family Is the end of the world, I'd maybe like to hear what you guys in the band really are thinking about the issues and discussion from Concerned guys, rather then "whooowhooing" and passing biscuits. It's cool you can come down and talk randy.

Dogmaeye: Hmm. Whoohooing is also 'deep' as well... smirk. as 'concerned guys'. but yeah, who wouldnt' be serious about making love ..albums.. and ... as a 'concerned' baby, I dont' care about commenting to almost ...most...of the comments that are spilled out on the table. I hate guts, exspecially bull's guts.

Stevey: Are some of the band members going to rejoin? are Most of the Band members still Keeping to the core of our religion and living inward and outwardly Christian lives? It's not "Just the lyrics". And I say that with all due respect. I'm not pointing fingers AT ALL, I honestly ask.

Dogmaeye: Good question. But you'd have to meet me in person for me to answer that.. but I know Jesus Loves Me. Still.

Stevey:I'm not the only one here with questions about the usefulness of inaudible words in music. Yeah, Mama said is the words are pure it is pure. I'm pretty sure she's talking about Hearing the words. How can lyrics alone make a song pure If you cant understand them and it's constant screaming? (Maybe they can, I don't know. But don't act like it's not even up for discussion- I'm not the only one who wonders about this direction) I heard a demo from 10 bullet plan. Andrew yelling bloody murder as always, But his vocal was Loud, and clear with distinguishable lyrics. I thought the song was heavy and sweet. and I know where Andrew is coming from, at least a bit. see what I'm saying?

Dogmaeye: Pure...hmm..touchy word. I know what you mean about ppl understanding the words...but then again, music can also change someone... but changing the screeming is like changing the style...or should I say, how we feel. I haven't heard 10 bullet plan, but maybe they're rock? and rock doesn't use as much screeming and growling as melodic metal. So anyhow, the base of it is: If your heart is good, then nothing else matters....and if it's bad, everything matters. oh, i'm not making sense.

Stevey: And...I know I'm just one guy and one opinion. This whole topic of pure and brackish and where the line is as far as "what God considers Music" is so big and vague so I really don't know much.

Dogmaeye: Heh dude. We dont' know what God knows, but what I think, is that God is the Autor of everything. So thats my opinion.

Stevey: I don't mean to offend or cram stuff down peoples throats. Aight? what I have done is spent a lot of brain power trying to understand the spiritual principles behind music, from the Word and from experience.don't know everything, and I'm only trying to be a help in the end

Dogmaeye: See...i'm a serious guy as well, I think about those things as well...so I've said what i've had to say for this album, and I hope when Danny also comments about this...again...I hope they won't get deleted. Geez.

Whoah, music DOES matter where it's coming from. Why? Because music is spirit. Every musician is being inspired by something/someone when they write or compose something. That's where the term, "music can lift one up or can pull one down" came in. I'm not saying that the people who created this album was possessed by a demon because of me being the little nerd of not liking metal music which contain screams that I usually let out when I'm in pain, but I do know that your background and where you're at in your life (including spiritually/mentally) does affect the music that you make.

So what Steve's saying when he's refering to "where your coming from" is exactly that, where are you in your life? How are you doing? Is there something in your life that you just got inspired by, or something that you got literarly discouraged by? How are you feeling when you wrote the song? Were you really pist off when you composed/wrote a song? All the answers to those questions (and plenty more Im sure) will affect the music you make--thats FACT. (not only by the Familys point of view, but by ANY musicians point of view. If you don't agree to this, then you're not a musician)

I'm backing up Steve on his points. Yeah so he sounds self righteous with his views towards music, but hey! By their fruits ye shall know them. Look at his fruits (aka his music)! Anyone can agree that what he's made so far is amazing talent for someone who has little experience in the music industry, who didn't get the training or needed equipment that many other top/famous musicians has in order to create something AS good as steve's work. If any, you should take his advice he gives on music, that is, if you want your music to be aiming towards family young people. (which in this case I can see that it is, joe advertising it everyone including the MO site) Steve is one heck of a dedicated guy who loves the Lord to bits. If you would just sit down and get to know him (don't start off with "music" as your topic...I know we STILL don't clash so good in that area, esp when it comes to trance), just talk to him and see how far he's come; and really, I don't want to brag about him or get him lifted up in pride, but really...he's a dimond in the rough who's got AMAZING talent with music. So, respect!

He's like my own personal Jesus in the flesh, so RESPECT! (haha, you know who I am)

Wow, GBY Steve and Good pal of Steve for bringing up these points, they really express my sentiments. Like someone pointed out earlier... "Old Bottles are actually those who still want to fit into the molds of the system............. not those who love our roots!"

but you don't have to be in the family to love the lord/have the lord love you/ be in His service etc.right? If someone , not in the family, gets something from the Lord , does that mean it doesnt hold the same water that something someone in the family would ?or is this off the subject...?

Hi there I’m Nick Fisher Lead singer and song writer for Caney Creek Heroes. I spent quite a while last night reading over the posted comments and couldn’t help but think of a few questions and tips I had for the composer(s) and songwriter(s) of this album. I myself am an avid listener of a wide variety of music from Heavy Metal to Country or RNB as long as it’s well produced and has a Godly and uplifting message. And I believe that with a little help this album could be a great contribution to the Heavy Metal world. If we are looking at lyrical value, I in my own personal viewpoint do not seem to find anything that is anti-God or against The Family in these lyrics. I also believe that the wording might be strong in a few cases, but it seems to lift up rather than knock down our beliefs as a Family.

If the point of bashing this music is because the lyrics are not clear, It is more than likely that the recording equipment used was not up to par with most peoples standards and also maybe the vocalist lacked proper training, (I don’t know this so I can only guess) and would offer him the advice of going through the “Zen of Screaming” course as it helped me heaps and bunches with the clarity of my lyrics, as it goes through both singing and screaming in this course and could help you in the clarity of your screaming. Also if you want any tips on recording you could email me or my brother Sebastien at System_rejex@gmail.com or Caneycreekheroes@gmail.com

Also I noticed that another topic of much heated debate was the album cover and I do see where people could be led astray with this, and as one of the top graphic designers in The Family I could be able to offer my services to remodel this cover if desired as I am very fond of the vector/grunge style myself and may be able to improve on what Josh has put together.

Another thing I would like to suggest to Joe, is that he separates the topic of metal from the topic of the album itself, as some people just don’t like metal as a style and are bashing the people (the band) instead of the subject (the music) which I think is in poor taste and is not a debate, but a roast and is not really a good example of Jesus and his love. Also I would like to ask that you delete any comments with crude or crass language, as I’m sure that many people read your blog or others blogs that you have posted on and might have sheep click on this link. At least I know my sheep visit my Myspace and would not be impressed if I were to have such language posted there, as I’m sure you agree.

And last but not least to end this lengthy comment, I would like to pose a question for all the writers and composers of this album, the question being: What was your goal in making this CD? was it to win others to the Lord and Contribute to the Winning Offensive? If so then more power to you! God bless you for your efforts. I hope this comment was a help.

And that’s my 2 centscheerio!Oh and if at all possible could I get the lyricist email addresses?

I'm sorry correct me if I'm wrong, but everyone here loves the Lord right? And everyone here believes in the bible correct? And everyone believes in the verse "if ye have done it unto the least of these my brethren ye have done it unto me also" I would just like to request, a small request for the sake of Jesus, the one this album was written for, that we please pray before we speak and do unto others as we would have them do unto us. And if anyone would like to label this post as SR I'm sorry but I just don't believe that this is what Jesus the one who died for our eternal souls would want.I LOVE YOU ALL VERY VERY MUCH and believe that everyone here wants to do their best.PEACE

Hey Gabi man I saw your new single cover its really good, like it alot!sorry if I came across proud or anything like that its a weakness of mine, Lord help me. In any case I'm sorry if I offended you in any way just thought I could offer some constructive feedback so these poor guys wouldn't get so much flack. Anyhow love you man.(sorry admin for being a bit off topic)

Gabi Said: and i tottally agree with what angie said .Angie Said: but you don't have to be in the family to love the lord/have the lord love you/ be in His service etc.right? If someone , not in the family, gets something from the Lord , does that mean it doesnt hold the same water that something someone in the family would ?or is this off the subject...?

hey gabi nick liked ur song...it must be pretty good cuz he seems like such a smart boy...i 2 agree with what angie said...and think is a shame that ppl in the fam judge ppl that are out in a way of thinking they are superior...Jesus is the same to everybody whether ur in or out..when i was lil i was taught by my dear parents to not judge ppl by their sex/religion/culture/race and whats the other one ohh yes STATUS!...anyway i dont wanna get started with this cuz UGH!...and I'm still waiting for a answer to why the cover is so "demonic" i might be pretty stupid but i just really dont see it...and nick these arent "poor guys"...they made a great album and ppl here just have no life that they need to rip on anything that is a lil diff then what they r used to. When the "Lion the dragon and the beast" CD came out i remember some FGA's thinking it was out of it...and saying that if we were still in the "good ol' days" it wouldnt be permitted and if they didnt agree with that imagine with what is made today...but THANK GOD!The Family has advanced and is expanding...but i guess it takes some time for some bottles to crack...and im talking about the music not the lyrics(dont wanna get involved with the lyrics although i do think they are well written and he really meant what he was writing about)...i dont understand why metal is considered demonic and devilish it is a style of music and can be used just as any other, yes u may not like it...but just because some ppl do..does that make them any less Christian??..will the Lord love them any less?!??...i think not!...but then again I'm stupid...

Wow y'all. i have never been quiet about the fact that i don't like my own brother's music. Still, what else could you be doing with your time besides writing the 168 (at this time)comments to tell him you hate the album so damn much? Grow up, don't listen, or at least leave the fucking room already!

well it's 170 with this comment.... obviously people are just jealous that they couldn't make somthing as awesum as this album... most normal people if they don't like a certain album they just don't listen to it... haters are just jealous... btw if i become a hater can i have some biscuits caleb???

Frankly I am a bit disappointed that Danny and his buddies didn't really come up with any real answers to any of Steve's questions. Just a bunch of woohoo's and "here, have a Costco biscuit".

Can't you guys just come out and straight up tell us what your intentions were in making this album? Or can we still expect more of this juvenile nonsense and roundabout answers that mean nothing & avoid the question altogether?

Okay now on to the music, it doesn't matter if the lyrics are saying all the right things. If you don't really believe in the words to the songs you make then that doesn't make it a "pure" family song or album. I am not saying you have to live a life totally free of sin but in your heart you need to believe in the basic principles of the Bible and the word and your motives have to be right. I think there is a lot of non Family music out there that has a good message and is uplifting and can be used to draw you or others closer to Christ and the artists that make that kind of good music usually live a Godly life and their lifestyles reflect those beliefs. So you don't necessarily have to be in the Family to make good Christian music, if your intention is to make music to witness to others I think the lord can use anyone as long as you are doing it for a witness.

Based on the comments I have read on this thread from the producers of this album (excluding Joe)I would have to come to the conclusion that this album is not much different from the many hundreds of albums out there made by non Christian bands trying to make a name for themselves.

First of all this wasn't supposed to be an official "album" nor a TCD, it's just a demo. What is a demo? Well it justso happens that I have a definition from wikipedia...

Fun Fact:

"A demo version or demo of a song (shortened from the word "demonstration") is one recorded for reference rather than for release. A demo is a way for musicians to approximate their ideas on tape or disc, and provide an example of those ideas to record labels, producers or other artists. Musicians often use demos as quick sketches to share with bandmates or arrangers; in other cases a songwriter might make a demo to send to artists in hopes of having the song professionally recorded, or a music publisher may need a simple recording for publishing or copyright purposes."

If you've heard demos by actual bands in the system you may be surprised to find that the production quality is rather inferior to that of an actual LP release. The point of us recording a demo as opposed to recording an album was to get a batch of songs recorded so that if ever we did have the time, money or record deal to record a real album we wouldn't have to spend much time trying to remember how the songs went etc.By the time I had finally mixed the demo to my satisfaction I thought to myself "boy oh boy! I'm sure any family members who enjoy listening to metal - but have trouble quenching their thirst since most of the "water" they've been drinking has been rather "brackish" - would really appreciate this stuff."I also thought to myself."If family members ever wanted to try to reach the youth with music - the kind of youth that doesnt exactly get turned on with the GP Cd's the Family currently has available for distribution -then this could actually be a real tool as well." So I told Joeseph that he should put this up for downloading on his blog. People could download it, listen to it and then burn it to a cd if they appreciated it or delete it if they didn't like it. Some of the people that have posted here seem to be rather thick. After reading the comments here one might gather that Joe and I had blasted a speaker of this music in each ear and tied them down to a chair so tight, leaving them freedom only in their fingers to type bitter comments.

Helpful Hint:

If you're discouraged or feeling hopeless because of the following reasons:

1. The Music was too noisy and you don't like it2. You don't like metal3. This isn't the metal you're used to4. This doesn't even sound like metal to you5. You don't feel the spirit of Jesus emanating from the music6. The music is not "SPICY" and lacks real "FLAVA"7. The quality of the music is so bad that it bothers your mind8. The message is not clear enough and makes you feel discouraged9. The Quality of the recording is just not up to par with all the other good music you've been listening to

Then I have good news for you! Follow these three simple steps

1. Click on the music file.2. Hold down left shift key with finger of choice from your left hand3. Press delete with finger of choice from your right hand (that way it deletes permanently and you don't even have to spend extra time removing it from your recycle bin later on)

As far as I remember the level of saltiness in water was determined by the lyrics not the speed, volume or recording quality of the music. "OH HO HO" You Say "Maybe that's true, but if we can't understand the lyrics then doesn't it ruin the water?"Well, let me answer that question with a question: Shall we rule out all the Spanish songs in the TCds just because I can't understand what's being sung?Joe told me he included the lyrics in the Download so if you want to know what's being sung then read it there.

The reason I haven't answered Steve's questions before was because I am a very busy boy. I don't have much time to go online and partake in debates which was something I fully immersedmyself in while I was in The Family. Another reason is most of the questions are directed at Joe not me. I will reply to the one comment directed at me by Steve now.

Steve: Danny, It's not the metal people have problems with (not most anyway) In this case, the problem (I'm guessing) is mostly technical things which add up to make a generally noisy album of confusion (for the listener). IMO Metal is so noisy and fast and angry already (which is good) that it's got so much potential to sound plain old off the beam If the vocal Can't be heard and the music is messy and distorted because of the mix and tones.we need to hear the words (at least like....70 percent or something haha) or it's seriously just a guy yelling bloody murder- Which doesn't sound really uplifting. So I personally think with the vocals up a lot the music would be a little more meaningful. more people would "get it". Also with a cleaner recording, (for next time) people might be able to Tolerate it?

Danny: First of all I'd like to say thanks for Mastering this. Secondly the reason I made that remark is because out in the system I've showed this demo to Producers, profesional musicians, radio djs, and some random people. So far the feedback I've gotten is nothing short of great. This is actual professional people within the music industry and casual listeners alike. When it's shown to Family people you get replies like: this mix is bad, It's just noise, this is unoriginal, this is Trash metal etc. I'm not trying to say "System > Family" It's just that I don't understand how Family people who are supposed to be more loving than the average non-member and certainly can't be used to better music quality than non-members can have so much crap to say about it. I think a problem is thatwhen you're a band outside the family the music you write and create is your Music. If people don't like it then too bad. In the Family - I think because there is not much music around - when a band creates something that isn't liked the Family listener tries to add their two cents on how the band could better their sound to become more appealing to said Family listener's ear. Not because said listener thinks he/she knows that much about music but just because there's not much musicaround in the first place that any extra music that they may enjoy is very much appreciated. I could be wrong, in fact when reading some of the comments posted here for the first time, the impression I got was that allot of people think they are professional musicians and producers and that I would really care about their opinions on what they felt would improve the music. But I decided to give these people the benefit of the doubt since that's what Jesus would do. Again I'm not puting the Family down in any way. I appologize in advance if this post offends anyone. I'm also sorry Steve that I couldn't get back to you on this sooner.

In conclusion I would like to say thanks to everyone who enjoyed the listen and posted about it here. And to everyone who didn't like it: I'm sorry but at least you have the good quality music of Vas and Stem to fall back on Amen?! Some of you may try to debunk allot of what I've said and that's fine but I'm not going to have time nor interest to get into a debate with you on any of these topics. I came here to make this post because my yahoo msgr was getting overloaded with offlines requesting for some sort of rebuttal to the comments that were being posted here.

PS: I'm Danny and I'm the one that wrote 85 percent of everything on the Demo, and produced and mixed it. So I guess I'm the one who's most responsible for this Demo. Just so you know.. so yer not all like "who's this random danny guy" Meanwhile if you guys ever had costco cookies then you would actually appreciate it when Gabi and Caleb pass them on to you in the spirit.

Number one I want to say your album kicks ass like nothing the Family's every put out before. Many of my favorite old bands come to mind, and even the likes of Yngwe Malmsteen and Steve Vai in some parts. But this demo is actually an improvement on much of that.

Number two, please, please put more out and don't listen to the haters, and even the supposedly concerned critics. I'd say if you can write 6 more songs like this then you should look for someone who'll give you pro studio time, because as a guy with 3 brothers deep, deep in the metal scene, I know it'd fly.

Number 3, anyone who says this is too poor of quality to listen to is completely stuffed full of garbage, and is displaying exactly how much of a scene kid they are. There are record companies out there that record stuff at worse quality than this, and people buy the albums. There are even genres and there were phases where stuff that was of far worse quality than this was the goal. Anyone ever hear any of Luti-Kris (not the rappers) or Zao's old stuff? But those are just Christian metallers. There are record companies that until recently you had to write to with an envelope and stamp with the money for this or that album inside to get their albums. And hey scene kids. You know what? The people who really knew their stuff and knew a little more than the "weekly top 40" actually order these cds and listen to them... and ENJOY them.

So for those of us who actually have a clue, please don't stop making this stuff.

TO danny-LOL, Great instructions...Haha.anyway, IF these are Demo's made for the band's reference or record companies, but you thought "someone" could enjoy them, Thats another story. The way this CD was advertised all over the internet and also in the rundown on this blog never say it's a collection of demos: It's clearly a "Witnessing" "album" "for the offensive". So possibly you and Joe are thinking different things. Demos are one thing. If they are intended as "demo's", these are acceptable recordings and definetly gives the listener a good picture of the real product, I think.I agree with your insights into the way most people respond to family music. It is a pain a lot of the time to get negative "feedback" from folks who don't really have a clue. BUT your reasoning is exactly why I'm here. If something raises questions in me, and it's advertised as a family witnessing album, I have to get in there and get those questions out. so yeah, as Family or chritian music my personal "techy" opinion is if the vocal was louder, It would make things that much more meaningful. Second, as far as I know, Joe can put these up as Demo's from friends, But not as "family Music". Because the music carries the spirit of the writers and creators. If it's not Made firstly for Jesus Christ by revolutionary Christians living the revolution, (MAYBE it is) It can't be Technically Family Music. It's brackish. Which Is Fine man. Lots of of listen to Christian's music, So if this turns someones key I have no problem with that. I think the advertising as a Family "offensive" "album" is what might have caught my attention.

To Audio Guru:I agree with ur point one. the Playing and riffs show some serious chops. Good stuffI agree with point 2. Make more guys, I think a lot of record companies looking for a metal act would dig these demos. I wish you guys the best and hope the lord does great things.Point 3.I disagree. It's a demo. No half-established record label (as in Not extremely underground) is going to take this as is, and Band knows that. I don't know what the Indie labels in turkey are doing, But I speak for myself.

Man...You are missing the point.I never said this music isn't enjoyable by some people. I did say It wasn't technically on par with commercial stuff with is why "MOST PEOPLE" might have started bashing. I know there are people who don't mind that, and are used to the metal to the point that this stuff won't sound totally crazy to them. I am one of those people. I agree with you that some people might enjoy it...So you have no point to prove there.

I don't know why your post has a couple of these subtle little digs at me. do you see me talking crap about you? no. I'm not going to say "people who can't see that this is technically brackish water promoted as family music" are morons. I think there is room for discussion on it, so can you treat opposing opinions with respect as well? (I seem to be the loudest one here, but not the only one) THE ISSUE one more time, (the big one, not the "vocal volume" or all the other little stuff people brought up) Is It is technically brackish waters. which means it's not family music unless the guys are still really upholding the standard, which I haven't seen a positive reply too. do you disagree? the playing and composition is actually really good. I've said that before. If It was a little better of a recording, I'd listen to this too- as standard Christian music.

Love you all and Danny, I really hope the record companies like these demo's. Glad I could help.

Well, on point three, I'm actually not talking about anything in Turkey. I'm for one, talking about the thousands of death metal acts I discovered about 6 years ago, SIGNED bands, when I first started looking for Christian metal. Lots of it was worse quality than this.

I'm also referring to something my older brother told me about those record labels you have to physically write to. He's pretty into the metal scene. He used to hang out with the Lamb Of God vocalist.

My point was that to anyone who knows that much about the metal scene, who has a knowledge of it past the most popular, polished bands, this isn't that bad. Heck, I know it's better than some stuff I'm about to be putting out.

But yeah, the "brackish" issue is up for debate it seems. I don't have time to read all of this, but yeah. Are the band members members of the Family at any level? I know I wouldn't have taken kindly to people saying my music was "brackish" when I was FM.

I'm not against metal, I love metal music, though i generally prefer songs without death growl and that I can actually understand what they are screaming. Probably yes it was the recording quality. yeah people produce more songs like requim of a dream, that would be cool.

well Steve said that he liked the composition of the music and thats all I care about, because just from listening to Danny's songs I do think that Danny is a very gifted artist and that was the main thing that was bothering me was people dissing his creativity as a composer and guitarist

yes of course it is! if u ppl knew me, believe it or not, I'm the self-righteous hypocrite in my home. i once led a crusade 2 ban 'this pain is mine' from audiolinkup. remember those crazy silly fetal days?i struggled with this album 4 a bit at the beginning too. here is my train of thought.

the songs were all written and first produced by FD family members at the time, 4 family members, in many cases about family members and first and foremost, 2 please jesus. it is an album being promoted in the family because it was specifically designed 4 the ears and use of family ppl, not because of any questions about quality or motives.

i am firmly determined not 2 name-drop here but believe me, i checked the songs with a variety of ppl--ppl who would be able 2 call this issue--asking specifically about the purity and lyrics of the content. the main heads up i got was that the vocals weren't clear enough 2 clearly understand the message. so we made it clearer.

i believe danny did everything in his power 2 get these songs sounding purrrrty.......sorry that he's not technically perfect. but now we're getting into the technical side.

we also included a detailed set of lyrics.

i even made karaokes of these songs and a little ball bouncing along 2 the lyrics. decided not 2 include those in the end.

now, i don't really know these boys that well. i don't know what they're doing with their lives or what their plans are. .....well i know caleb's in the army...ehheeheh...running up hills and stuff....with short little hair...hahah....ahem.

but u know......i don't really know many family musicians that well. i do hear how she got reclassified and he got voted out of his home and she left the family and he's on furlough.......ALL the time. and then i see them on the next TCD.

so..i am under the firm opinion that maybe the lord can still use ppl musically in spite of their mistakes in other areas. take it from a haggard old vagabond troublemaker who's still fighting.

so this is good stuff. now......i can't necessarily vouch 4 their next album.....that's up 2 them. ......danny?

ps about my marketing approach:i was working out in the gym, thinking about a tagline 2 promote these (what danny calls) demos when suddenly it occurred 2 me! well, they're all witnessing songs aren't they? in other words, not discipleship songs, not loving jesus songs, not bible verses put 2 music.....they're mostly songs directed at lost sheep 4 the purposes of bringing them to jesus.and then it occurred 2 me! --hey! and what is pretty much all witnessing a part of nowadays in the family? --the offensive!and since there haven't been any other witnessing metal albums since the launch of the offensive, BOOM! a tagline was born!i'm just enthusiastic like that. and honestly, can u really--zeth and other haters EXCLUDED--search ur heart and tell me that there is anything untrue in the blurb? i stand behind it.

Things to Improve in this Album: The recording sounds choppy at some parts steve...it wasn't like that when i heard the demos before these demos. And I didn't really like the guitar distortion too much. It's sounds a little bit old-skool. The drum bass sounds too em, hard and snare-like. and the bass guitar...it sounds too flat...and un-warm. I'm afraid if i say my name danny you might go give me a biskit heh. but it's my opinion. hehe. But I do LOVE this album!!! lovely work

bloggers bloggers bloggers! WHAT IS THE POINT?! who cares about the album, who care about the music, who cares about YOU? AND YOUR OPINION?FOCUS ON THE POWER, focus on your job. go out witnessing for gods sake. thats the most time consuming activity(FREEING YOU FROM THE NECESSITY OF MAKING AND UPKEEPING BLOGS), and the sensation is marvelous. people will remember you for the actions youve done, not the comments you post. CHANGE THE WORLD! - s