Girion47:inner ted: amquelbettamin: inner ted: Girion47: inner ted: Girion47: inner ted: GAT_00: Carn: I had a convo with a pro-gun co-worker yesterday who I respect a lot. He tends to be very libertarian so I knew where he'd stand. The long and short of it is, he basically thinks that someone going on a stabbing spree with a knife is just as bad and has the same outcome as mass shootings. I submit that this is not a rational conclusion.

I don't understand people like that. There are not mass knifings, and the ability to commit mass murder isn't even remotely the same. It's like saying a single apple and an apple tree are the same thing.

surely this late in the thread, someone will have pointed out that little episode in china that happened on the same day

but, you know, it's in china

which isn't the u.s. or israel

so it doesn't count

right?

/do agree that high capacity semi auto rifles being widely available to the public doesn't help

High Capacity = well, if a hunting rifle is limited to what... 5-7 - then i think we can reasonably assume that 30 is high capacitySemi-auto=majority of firearms - but the majority of firearms are not semi auto rifles with magazines capable of carrying 10+ rounds - do you see the difference between the entirety of what i said vs. you just parting out bits to take it out of context?Rifle=hard to conceal if commission of crime is your goal.no it's not

orperhaps pics are more your thing than words[assets.bizjournals.com image 280x210]

I'm sorry a picture of a hunting rifle with plastic bits on it scare you.

i'm sorry you can't understand words, but i'll try again: the only bit that gives me pause is the high capacity magazine. and that it appears to be fitted with a suppressor.

unless you are saying the hunting rifle pictured can hold 20 - 30 rounds at a time

Of course the 30-06 semi can be used with a high-cap mag. Lots of choices for that

then it would be the same as the "scary rifle with plastic bits" & worthy of being h ...

jeebusif you aren't even going to read the words i write, why would i go the next step and not only read your weak argument, but take the time to watch a video?

it's no wonder we as a nation don't get very far - if you can't understand words NOR pics - but i must endeavor to make it clearer:

furthermore: you are either trolling or not being genuine as you continue to avoid my questions and instead respond with childish remarks - but so we are all clear:

i believe that having high capacity magazines (10+rounds or more) in semi auto rifles available to the masses makes it far easier to cause massive destruction

Well, just from a brief glance at the magazine on that 'assualt style' weapon, I can tell it fires .22lr, which is *about* one of the least powerful and most common rounds on the market. A closer look at the ejection port confirms it.

The 2nd one is a little harder, but I am gonna guess it is chambered in 7.62x51 (or .308), which can bring down a goddamn water buffalo and punch clean through 1/4 inch steel plate. So I'd the the 2nd one, while less scary, is more deadly.

But then I've educated myself on firearms, so that I can know what I am talking about when the subject comes up.

if you are as educated about firearms as you would like us to believe, than you would acknowledge that even with a small caliber, enough of them can do plenty of damage to people.

Bullseyed:SSRI meds cause people to do violent things. That is a fact.

Some people taking SSRI meds may already (not in all cases) have a tendency toward suicidal behavior. It varies from case to case. SSRIs are prescribed for many different symptoms, from mild anxiety, to clinical depression.In other words, not all people taking SSRIs should be classified as violent, or potentially violent. Some younger users of SSRIs have had adverse reactions, so they should be monitored for abnormal behavior.

inner ted:MythDragon: amquelbettamin: Think fast, which is more deadly?

Well, just from a brief glance at the magazine on that 'assualt style' weapon, I can tell it fires .22lr, which is *about* one of the least powerful and most common rounds on the market. A closer look at the ejection port confirms it.

The 2nd one is a little harder, but I am gonna guess it is chambered in 7.62x51 (or .308), which can bring down a goddamn water buffalo and punch clean through 1/4 inch steel plate. So I'd the the 2nd one, while less scary, is more deadly.

But then I've educated myself on firearms, so that I can know what I am talking about when the subject comes up.

if you are as educated about firearms as you would like us to believe, than you would acknowledge that even with a small caliber, enough of them can do plenty of damage to people.

Well....yes. That is the very purpose for which they are designed. These things don't fire flower petals here. Doesn't mean that you can't use them for not people-killing activities like target and sport shooting, or just collecting. Hell, unlike knives (which are tools that can be used as a weapon) a sword has only one function. To kill people. Of course you can still purchase one if you happen to like collecting swords or slicing watermelons in the coolest way possible.

nobody is hunting 1/4" steel plate.

No, it's usualy what's behind the plate that they are hunting.When we went into Iraq we had no armor at all for our vehicles. We managed to find a couple of pieces of proper door armor (not that it would do much good when the enemy could shoot through the front glass or rear canvas). For the rest of our vehicles we spent a good amount of time and effort welding 1/8" plate steel where ever we could get it to stick. So we convoy up through Iraq. Not long after I got there, I ran into a couple of Rangers who ask "wanna see something cool?" And when a Army Ranger wants to show you something he thinks is cool, you damn well go see. (But you wear body armor and hide behind a tree until you figure out what the hell is gonna show you). Turns out they 'aquired' some AKMs (A newer AK-47 for you non gun types) and got curious about how well the 1/8" junk-armor would work. He points to some dents in the side of his HMMWV and says "That's were we shot it with an M-4". Then he points to a bunch of holes and says "And that's where we shot it with an AK" I look at the truck and say "Um....there are holes on the other side too." "Yep." He says " Punched clean through both sides. Cool, huh?"

Fail in Human Form:Generation_D: The NRA needs to be closed down. They've contributed to a culture of armed violence and blocked reasonable attempts to require registration and require gun safety and training.

kg2095:Fail in Human Form: Generation_D: The NRA needs to be closed down. They've contributed to a culture of armed violence and blocked reasonable attempts to require registration and require gun safety and training.

I understand people wanting to place the blame on an inanimate object. For most of us, it's hard to grasp the idea that a human can be capable of killing children. But at the end of the day, it was a very sick and twisted person that killed all those children.

kg2095:Fail in Human Form: Generation_D: The NRA needs to be closed down. They've contributed to a culture of armed violence and blocked reasonable attempts to require registration and require gun safety and training.

MythDragon:inner ted: MythDragon: amquelbettamin: Think fast, which is more deadly?

Well, just from a brief glance at the magazine on that 'assualt style' weapon, I can tell it fires .22lr, which is *about* one of the least powerful and most common rounds on the market. A closer look at the ejection port confirms it.

The 2nd one is a little harder, but I am gonna guess it is chambered in 7.62x51 (or .308), which can bring down a goddamn water buffalo and punch clean through 1/4 inch steel plate. So I'd the the 2nd one, while less scary, is more deadly.

But then I've educated myself on firearms, so that I can know what I am talking about when the subject comes up.

if you are as educated about firearms as you would like us to believe, than you would acknowledge that even with a small caliber, enough of them can do plenty of damage to people.

Well....yes. That is the very purpose for which they are designed. These things don't fire flower petals here. Doesn't mean that you can't use them for not people-killing activities like target and sport shooting, or just collecting. Hell, unlike knives (which are tools that can be used as a weapon) a sword has only one function. To kill people. Of course you can still purchase one if you happen to like collecting swords or slicing watermelons in the coolest way possible.

nobody is hunting 1/4" steel plate.

No, it's usualy what's behind the plate that they are hunting.When we went into Iraq we had no armor at all for our vehicles. We managed to find a couple of pieces of proper door armor (not that it would do much good when the enemy could shoot through the front glass or rear canvas). For the rest of our vehicles we spent a good amount of time and effort welding 1/8" plate steel where ever we could get it to stick. So we convoy up through Iraq. Not long after I got there, I ran into a couple of Rangers who ask "wanna see something cool?" And when a Army Ranger wants to show you something he thinks is cool, you damn well go see. (B ...

as awesome as your story sounds, sorry, i didn't read it all

why?

cause you are making my case - certain aspects of firearms are only for war fighting / hunting people & don't have a reason among the general public.

Well so much for the AR - 15. It's like farking locusts descended on the gun stores. Every round of .223, every magazine, every rifle.... gone. Talked with the owner and he said he's not sure when he's new orders will be filled but he guarantees the price will be higher.

/We got to BSing and he said he was selling skids of .223 the same day they arrived//Farking *facepalm*

Well, just from a brief glance at the magazine on that 'assualt style' weapon, I can tell it fires .22lr, which is *about* one of the least powerful and most common rounds on the market. A closer look at the ejection port confirms it.

The 2nd one is a little harder, but I am gonna guess it is chambered in 7.62x51 (or .308), which can bring down a goddamn water buffalo and punch clean through 1/4 inch steel plate. So I'd the the 2nd one, while less scary, is more deadly.

But then I've educated myself on firearms, so that I can know what I am talking about when the subject comes up.

if you are as educated about firearms as you would like us to believe, than you would acknowledge that even with a small caliber, enough of them can do plenty of damage to people.

Well....yes. That is the very purpose for which they are designed. These things don't fire flower petals here. Doesn't mean that you can't use them for not people-killing activities like target and sport shooting, or just collecting. Hell, unlike knives (which are tools that can be used as a weapon) a sword has only one function. To kill people. Of course you can still purchase one if you happen to like collecting swords or slicing watermelons in the coolest way possible.

nobody is hunting 1/4" steel plate.

No, it's usualy what's behind the plate that they are hunting.When we went into Iraq we had no armor at all for our vehicles. We managed to find a couple of pieces of proper door armor (not that it would do much good when the enemy could shoot through the front glass or rear canvas). For the rest of our vehicles we spent a good amount of time and effort welding 1/8" plate steel where ever we could get it to stick. So we convoy up through Iraq. Not long after I got there, I ran into a couple of Rangers who ask "wanna see something cool?" And when a Army Ranger wants to show you something he thinks is cool, you damn wel ...

inner ted:cause you are making my case - certain aspects of firearms are only for war fighting / hunting people & don't have a reason among the general public.

And guess what...we don't have them. It takes some SERIOUS paperwork/background check/expenses to own a M-16 or an AK-74.Now a single fire only weapon that LOOKS like a M-16 or AK varient is NOT the same thing as what it looks like. You can slap a Ferrari body kit on a Corolla, and while it now looks dangerous, it doesn't go any faster.

MythDragon:inner ted: cause you are making my case - certain aspects of firearms are only for war fighting / hunting people & don't have a reason among the general public.

And guess what...we don't have them. It takes some SERIOUS paperwork/background check/expenses to own a M-16 or an AK-74.Now a single fire only weapon that LOOKS like a M-16 or AK varient is NOT the same thing as what it looks like. You can slap a Ferrari body kit on a Corolla, and while it now looks dangerous, it doesn't go any faster.

i realize thisbut the point remains the same: certain aspects of firearms are reserved only for military / cops

currently it is limited as you point out

i suggest including high capacity mags to this

or, in car terms: you can take a corolla and add nitrous & indeed it goes faster

Carn:This text is now purple: Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: Me either. Well, there are mass knifings, but as has been mentioned a lot, the outcome such as at the one in China last Friday, is much different. 22 Wounded vs 27 dead.

China had three separate school incidents in 2010 alone of knife attacks resulting in multiple fatalities.

How many, exactly?

Three.

Cute. How many deaths? How about this, you pick your four best school stabbings in the last 13 years and we'll compare that with the four US school shootings with the most victims and compare shall we?

Abe Vigoda's Ghost:I understand people wanting to place the blame on an inanimate object. For most of us, it's hard to grasp the idea that a human can be capable of killing children. But at the end of the day, it was a very sick and twisted person that killed all those children.

If the only thing available to him was, say, a spoon, do you think he would have been able to kill as many people?

WhippingBoy:Abe Vigoda's Ghost: I understand people wanting to place the blame on an inanimate object. For most of us, it's hard to grasp the idea that a human can be capable of killing children. But at the end of the day, it was a very sick and twisted person that killed all those children.

If the only thing available to him was, say, a spoon, do you think he would have been able to kill as many people?

inner ted:MythDragon: inner ted: cause you are making my case - certain aspects of firearms are only for war fighting / hunting people & don't have a reason among the general public.

And guess what...we don't have them. It takes some SERIOUS paperwork/background check/expenses to own a M-16 or an AK-74.Now a single fire only weapon that LOOKS like a M-16 or AK varient is NOT the same thing as what it looks like. You can slap a Ferrari body kit on a Corolla, and while it now looks dangerous, it doesn't go any faster.

i realize thisbut the point remains the same: certain aspects of firearms are reserved only for military / cops

currently it is limited as you point out

i suggest including high capacity mags to this

or, in car terms: you can take a corolla and add nitrous & indeed it goes faster

False analogy. The correct analogy is that you can put a bigger gas tank on a Corolla so it can drive farther.

And expanded mag doesn't make a gun more powerful. If I had a 2000 bullet mag for a 0.22, it won't shoot through steel plates.

I drunk what:WhippingBoy: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: I understand people wanting to place the blame on an inanimate object. For most of us, it's hard to grasp the idea that a human can be capable of killing children. But at the end of the day, it was a very sick and twisted person that killed all those children.

If the only thing available to him was, say, a spoon, do you think he would have been able to kill as many people?

we should ban spoons

then everyone will be safe

Available to him is not the same as is legal to own. Guns are available whether they are legal or not.

Bullseyed:inner ted: MythDragon: inner ted: cause you are making my case - certain aspects of firearms are only for war fighting / hunting people & don't have a reason among the general public.

And guess what...we don't have them. It takes some SERIOUS paperwork/background check/expenses to own a M-16 or an AK-74.Now a single fire only weapon that LOOKS like a M-16 or AK varient is NOT the same thing as what it looks like. You can slap a Ferrari body kit on a Corolla, and while it now looks dangerous, it doesn't go any faster.

i realize thisbut the point remains the same: certain aspects of firearms are reserved only for military / cops

currently it is limited as you point out

i suggest including high capacity mags to this

or, in car terms: you can take a corolla and add nitrous & indeed it goes faster

False analogy. The correct analogy is that you can put a bigger gas tank on a Corolla so it can drive farther.

And expanded mag doesn't make a gun more powerful. If I had a 2000 bullet mag for a 0.22, it won't shoot through steel plates.

i think my analogy is just fine - but if it really hangs you up - fine.. a big gas tank

as to expanded mag =/= more powerful.... no shiat

what you & many others are refusing to acknowledge is that having increased mag capacity increases one's ability to easily wreak havoc.

if you can respond to JUST THIS, i'll be very interested in your take

if all you have is "o you are scared of mean looking guns" then my interest falls considerably

I understand people wanting to place the blame on an inanimate object. For most of us, it's hard to grasp the idea that a human can be capable of killing children. But at the end of the day, it was a very sick and twisted person that killed all those children.

Yes it was a very sick twisted person. But the gun enabled him to kill more people than he otherwise would have,

A gun is a machine, and its purpose is to kill - it is a killing machine.

Girion47:kg2095: Fail in Human Form: Generation_D: The NRA needs to be closed down. They've contributed to a culture of armed violence and blocked reasonable attempts to require registration and require gun safety and training.

I understand people wanting to place the blame on an inanimate object. For most of us, it's hard to grasp the idea that a human can be capable of killing children. But at the end of the day, it was a very sick and twisted person that killed all those children.