Yes, but contracts are not gambling. The terms of the contract are set forth in black and white. If a party enters into a contract and is just hoping it will not be enforced against them or for the full benefit of the opposing party, that is just super foolish. That person really needs to hire a competent attorney pronto and never enter into business deals without their counsel.

The term of the contract was negotiable before it was signed. There's nothing that says a contract must go on in perpetuity. Crosby and Frampton were free to reject the terms they were given.

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The problem is, neither is really qualified to evaluate the fairness or legal ramifications of a given contract. You have to know how things are done before you can gauge whether you're getting a raw deal -- which is why you need an attorney or equivalent representative in your corner -- and there were a lot of crooked attorneys, artist representatives, and managers in the business BITD.

That's one of the reasons Elliot Roberts was so well-regarded: his effective advocacy for his artists was seen as a rare exception.

You know that only a relative handful of artists - the uber-powerful and the lucky - own the copyright in the recording.

You know that the model for nearly a century was: "We paid for the studio. It's ours." for as long as the law allows (or they tire and somebody offers them enough money to transfer the rights. Bowie and Joni Mitchell eventually did this with portions of their recorded output.).

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But you know all those studios and meals and limos the record companies paid upfront for, came out of future royalties. So essentially most artists eventually paid those costs themselves - if the record was a hit.

The problem is, neither is really qualified to evaluate the fairness or legal ramifications of a given contract. You have to know how things are done before you can gauge whether you're getting a raw deal -- and there were a lot of crooked attorneys, artist representatives, and managers in the business BITD.

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If you cannot determine the fairness or ramifications of a contract - which is probably nearly every contract a layperson signs - then you need to hire a competent lawyer. If your attorney, artist rep or manager is "crooked" then you can file an action against them and the law provided remedies. However, it is best not to get involved with "crooked" business partners in the first place.

Once again you've assumed something about my personal life and you're wrong yet again. You should probably stop assuming that which you could not possible know. And again, why would my personal situation have anything to do with my argument? Fallacies all over the place.

Next, I suspect I understand the practical realities of individuals navigating contractual relationships more that most. It is a part of my job that I've been involved in for decades. So, no blind eye, but a more a through understanding.

To your main point...

Of course lawyers will estimate if a likely payout from a lawsuit is worth the effort. Whatever that payout, they typically get 1/3. Whether a lawyer takes up that fight or not has to do with the potential for all possible lawsuits in which they might engage. If the likely return against all these contracts was such that a suit never managed to get wheels, again, that tells you about the validity of the original contract. Lots and lots of lawyers out there, some with potentially bigger cases, even more with lots of smaller ones. Not all lawyers, nor law firms, are created equal or face the same options for income. However, if no lawyers feel there is good chance to win and that the payout would be worth their time, you have yourself a valid contract. Live with the $1700 to which you voluntarily agreed and stop the whining.

As to a claimants age, lawyers sue on behalf of old people and their estates all the time. That has nothing to do with the validity of the contract.

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You are an attorney in a forum full of people discussing an issue that aren't.

If you cannot determine the fairness or ramifications of a contract - which is probably nearly every contract a layperson signs - then you need to hire a competent lawyer. If your attorney, artist rep or manager is "crooked" then you can file an action against them and the law provided remedies. However, it is best not to get involved with "crooked" business partners in the first place.

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." Man, I miss Hunter S. Thompson.

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." Man, I miss Hunter S. Thompson.

40+ years ago there was a band here in NC that was very successful locally. They had some opportunities to sign with major labels. They passed each time. They started their own label, produced their own 45s, 8-tracks, cassettes, and LPs, sold t-shirts etc. They got some bubbling under the top 40 country airplay, critical acclaim, national cable tv appearances. They told me once that the reason they didn't sign to a major label when they had an opportunity was that they would have to sell 50,000 major label records to make the same profit that they would make selling (I think it was) 5,000 of their self pressed records. Over the years several alumni of the band made it to Nashville, one cut a couple of solo major label albums and wrote some hit songs, another signed with RCA and put out a handful of singles, another had some success on an independent label for a while. None of them succeeded as much as the original band did by doing it all themselves. And they are still playing, with two original members!

40+ years ago there was a band here in NC that was very successful locally. They had some opportunities to sign with major labels. They passed each time. They started their own label, produced their own 45s, 8-tracks, cassettes, and LPs, sold t-shirts etc. They got some bubbling under the top 40 country airplay, critical acclaim, national cable tv appearances. They told me once that the reason they didn't sign to a major label when they had an opportunity was that they would have to sell 50,000 major label records to make the same profit that they would make selling (I think it was) 5,000 of their self pressed records. Over the years several alumni of the band made it to Nashville, one cut a couple of solo major label albums and wrote some hit songs, another signed with RCA and put out a handful of singles, another had some success on an independent label for a while. None of them succeeded as much as the original band did by doing it all themselves. And they are still playing, with two original members!

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Friends of mine were in the same position. They were being courted by labels, but they had done their homework by reading Cashbox magazine and discovered that they had sold at their merch table more copies of their home recorded album than the best of the labels had sold of their best-selling act.

Songwriters are having a very hard time making a living. And music fans should care -- great art will not continue to be created if the people creating it have to treat it like a hobby because they cannot make a living doing it.

But you know all those studios and meals and limos the record companies paid upfront for, came out of future royalties.

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Yes, I do.

(And you left out coke and whores!!!)

So essentially most artists eventually paid those costs themselves - if the record was a hit.

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And racked up "debt" if it wasn't a hit.

So, yeah. No one ever said record company accounting made sense, but this was the model in talking point if not practice. Bottom line is, record cos. almost always grabbed the copyrights, and the length of time of just what that means has only grown. It was "50 years" a long time ago. Like, 1978. The mad scramble of "copyright releases" of 50-year-old stuff from Dylan and the Beatles should be proof enough.

That scramble will stop when they finally roll forward to origin dates after 1972. They can then relax and breathe for another 40 years. (Poor dears, they'll need a rest.)

Folks also need to remember that organized crime -- and more generally, corruption -- has played a huge role in Hollywood and the music industry. Remember, Pink Floyd had to pay a bribe (or multiple bribes) before Another Brick in the Wall Part 2 was allowed to top the charts in L.A.!

Duress can come in many forms, some more legal than others -- as Suge Knight and/or Vanilla Ice might be willing to attest.