This is a discussion on What is Ratholing? Why are they hated? within the online poker forums, in the Learning Poker section; I have been playing Rush. I always buy-in full 100bb and have auto top up. Unlike standard tables where you have to buy in back

I have been playing Rush. I always buy-in full 100bb and have auto top up. Unlike standard tables where you have to buy in back for the previous amount u sat with, you can rathole in Rush. You can click "stand up" and then click on a seat to buy back in with any amount you want. So while I have a friend watching me through teamviewer, I sat in with 100bb, doubled up to nearly 200bb, stood up, sat back in for 100bb and continued in Rush. He asks me why I rathole. I responded that I know myself and I'm not a good post-flop player who can manage 200bb, and 100bb is enough already. People seem to hate ratholers as much as short-stackers. May I ask why?

I can understand people hating short-stackers but I'm curious what's bad about ratholers.

#2

21st October 2010, 11:31 PM

PattyR [7,117]

Poker at: full tilt

Game: hold em

ratholer = short stacker???? right?

#3

21st October 2010, 11:34 PM

WVHillbilly [22,659]

Online Poker at: Full Tilt

People hate ratholers because they're taking money out of the game that they are unwilling to put at risk. IMO though doing it at Rush is perfectly fine if you're not comfortable playing deep. At a regular table if you take someone's stack they can reload and try to win it back but that's not true at Rush. Win a stack at Rush and it might be 20 hands before you see that player again.

#4

21st October 2010, 11:35 PM

WVHillbilly [22,659]

Poker at: Full Tilt

Quote:

Originally Posted by PattyR

ratholer = short stacker???? right?

All SS are ratholers but not all ratholers are SS.

#5

21st October 2010, 11:55 PM

PooffyFooffy [13,718]

Online Poker at: bodog

Game: Holdem

What Hillbilly said, I rarely play Rush, but when I do if it is for some promo or something, ratholing is my break even strategy.

#6

22nd October 2010, 1:29 AM

x2486 [256]

Quote:

Originally Posted by WVHillbilly

All SS are ratholers but not all ratholers are SS.

Not always - I've been short stacking because I kept getting hit with coolers in Rush and I wanted to limit my bankroll losses while I try to clear the promotion. But if I do double up (or more), I don't rathole because I'm perfectly happy to play a big stack as long as losing it won't damage my bankroll that much.

#7

22nd October 2010, 1:31 AM

WVHillbilly [22,659]

Online Poker at: Full Tilt

re: Poker & What is Ratholing? Why are they hated?

Quote:

Originally Posted by x2486

Not true - I've been short stacking because I kept getting hit with coolers in Rush and I wanted to limit my bankroll losses while I try to clear the promotion. But if I do double up (or more), I don't rathole because I'm perfectly happy to play a big stack as long as losing it won't damage my bankroll that much.

Fine.
All GOOD short stackers are ratholers not all ratholers are GOOD short stackers.

Happy?

#8

22nd October 2010, 1:32 AM

Marginal [9,826]

Quote:

Originally Posted by x2486

Not true - I've been short stacking because I kept getting hit with coolers in Rush and I wanted to limit my bankroll losses while I try to clear the promotion. But if I do double up (or more), I don't rathole because I'm perfectly happy to play a big stack as long as losing it won't damage my bankroll that much.

Sorry, what WV was trying to say was that all good short stackers are ratholers.

#9

22nd October 2010, 1:35 AM

Marginal [9,826]

Now I realise that WV beat me to it. Damn that hillbilly.

#10

22nd October 2010, 1:38 AM

x2486 [256]

Man, that got jumped on. Okay, I suck at short stacking, but I'm not bankrolled for full stacking. Fact is, I don't even like Rush, but it's the fastest way to clear the promotion.

#11

22nd October 2010, 1:40 AM

Marginal [9,826]

Quote:

Originally Posted by x2486

Man, that got jumped on. Okay, I suck at short stacking, but I'm not bankrolled for full stacking.

NO. You actually need more BR for shortstacking than you need for 100bb poker. What stakes do you shortstack because if it is at 10nl, you have enough money to play 2nl or 5nl so your argument is invalid.

#12

22nd October 2010, 1:44 AM

x2486 [256]

I'm doing 2/5 nl. I lost about $17 doing full stack for four days. I'm up $2 after short stacking for three days. Why would I need a bigger bankroll to short stack?

#13

22nd October 2010, 1:47 AM

Marginal [9,826]

what i was trying to say (and i dont really say anything most of the time) was that 2$ shortstacking and 2$ full stacking is not the same. More swings shortstacking.

People hate ratholers because they're taking money out of the game that they are unwilling to put at risk. IMO though doing it at Rush is perfectly fine if you're not comfortable playing deep. At a regular table if you take someone's stack they can reload and try to win it back but that's not true at Rush. Win a stack at Rush and it might be 20 hands before you see that player again.

Ty. I got another question from this. If person that I wiped out left after losing, then is it ok for me to leave immediately also or is it still considered ratholing for leaving immediately after winning? Just asking for future reference since I do plan to play standard ring games in the future.

#15

22nd October 2010, 2:15 AM

Marginal [9,826]

Yes it is still ratholing. You are still taking money off the table. Obviously if you have a legit reason it is fine but if you are switching tables it is not cool

#16

22nd October 2010, 2:17 AM

PooffyFooffy [13,718]

Poker at: bodog

Game: Holdem

In live play it is frowned upon as well, but called "going south?"

#17

22nd October 2010, 2:19 AM

Marginal [9,826]

If someone went south on me, Id probably like it.

#18

22nd October 2010, 2:21 AM

PooffyFooffy [13,718]

Poker at: bodog

Game: Holdem

I am not positive that is the correct term...

#19

22nd October 2010, 2:23 AM

Marginal [9,826]

It is what I make of it

#20

22nd October 2010, 3:13 AM

alaskabill [1,012]

Poker at: Carbon Poker

Game: NLHE

Just a quick question, doesn't the Ferguson BR management system involve ratholing sometimes?

Bill

#21

22nd October 2010, 3:36 AM

pcgnome [1,696]

Online Poker at: Carbon

Game: holdem

re: Poker & What is Ratholing? Why are they hated?

From what I've read ... A short stacker gets in a game w/ about 20 bb's, waits for big hand, then gets all in b4 the flop when there is a big pot;
Rat holing is leaving a table as soon as a big pot is won.

#22

22nd October 2010, 4:18 PM

Vollycat [339]

Poker at: PS, FT

Game: holdem

Quote:

In live play it is frowned upon as well, but called "going south?"

Going South is when you take money off the table and still continue to play.
i.e. Have $400 in front of you, slip $250 off the table and put it in your pocket and then only play with $150 in front.

Where ratholeing is not illegal (some players just don't think it's very ethical), going south is not allowed.

I was playing at the Venetian one night and ordered food. I grabbed some chips off the table to pay for it and the waitress wouldn't let me. I only assumed it was a form of going south that someone got cranky with. Meh.

#23

22nd October 2010, 4:22 PM

PooffyFooffy [13,718]

Online Poker at: bodog

Game: Holdem

Thank you Volleycat for the explaination.

#24

22nd October 2010, 4:39 PM

x2486 [256]

Quote:

Originally Posted by marginal

what i was trying to say (and i dont really say anything most of the time) was that 2$ shortstacking and 2$ full stacking is not the same. More swings shortstacking.

If they had 1/2 Rush I would play it full stack, but I only have $70 on Full Tilt right now so that's only 14 buy-ins at $5 compared to 35 at $2. So far, I'm seeing fewer, smaller swings while playing short stacked. But even if I go on a run of bad beats, I can handle 2 1/2 times more of them if I play short stacked instead of full stacked.

Also, when I'm short stacked, I can't afford to play marginal hands. And since people are so aggressive in rush, I can rarely see a flop cheaply and I'm usually forced to fold unless I hit the flop perfectly, but premium hands seem to get paid off better than in a regular cash game.

#25

22nd October 2010, 5:20 PM

Pistol_Shot_Ian [29]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PooffyFooffy

In live play it is frowned upon as well, but called "going south?"

Sorta like what the Steelers are going to do as we go thru the remainder of the NFL season.... Sorry had to get that in there... Hate the Steelers but love getting their fans going.

#26

22nd October 2010, 5:23 PM

PooffyFooffy [13,718]

Poker at: bodog

Game: Holdem

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pistol_Shot_Ian

Sorta like what the Steelers are going to do as we go thru the remainder of the NFL season.... Sorry had to get that in there... Hate the Steelers but love getting their fans going.

Lol we are going all the way baby!
I notice you don't have that filled in your profile, so I will put you on Bengals? Good luck lol

...end derail

#27

22nd October 2010, 6:02 PM

WVHillbilly [22,659]

Online Poker at: Full Tilt

Quote:

Originally Posted by PooffyFooffy

Lol we are going all the way baby!
I notice you don't have that filled in your profile, so I will put you on Bengals? Good luck lol

...end derail

Come on now. You know better than that. You need to put him on a RANGE of teams. I'd say he's got something like AFC EAST TEAM/DALLAS/NE in his range.

#28

22nd October 2010, 6:06 PM

PooffyFooffy [13,718]

Poker at: bodog

Game: Holdem

re: Poker & What is Ratholing? Why are they hated?

Quote:

Originally Posted by WVHillbilly

Come on now. You know better than that. You need to put him on a RANGE of teams. I'd say he's got something like AFC EAST TEAM/DALLAS/NE in his range.

LMAO my bad.
Thanks for the correction.
I would say Dallas/Cincinatti would be in his range, but not New England.

#29

22nd October 2010, 6:13 PM

WVHillbilly [22,659]

Online Poker at: Full Tilt

Quote:

Originally Posted by PooffyFooffy

LMAO my bad.
Thanks for the correction.
I would say Dallas/Cincinatti would be in his range, but not New England.

You might be right but I think including another good AFC team in there accounts for just random hatred of the Steelers. Baltimore/Cleveland are def. in there though.

#30

22nd October 2010, 6:16 PM

PooffyFooffy [13,718]

Poker at: bodog

Game: Holdem

Quote:

Originally Posted by WVHillbilly

You might be right but I think including another good AFC team in there accounts for just random hatred of the Steelers. Baltimore/Cleveland are def. in there though.

I dunno, I think Baltimore might be in there but I think he is folding Cleveland if he already has me on Steelers.
I do agree he is folding any NFC.

#31

24th October 2010, 2:50 AM

salim271 [1,678]

Online Poker at: Full Tilt

Game: Holdem

I sit down for a round of rush every few months at 5nl... I lose my stack in like 20 hands, scratch my head, shrug, and leave thinking, Wtf just happened?

#32

24th October 2010, 6:00 PM

Pistol_Shot_Ian [29]

Quote:

Originally Posted by WVHillbilly

You might be right but I think including another good AFC team in there accounts for just random hatred of the Steelers. Baltimore/Cleveland are def. in there though.

You guys are outta your tits. And if you put me anywhere make sure the cheerleaders are cute and single! Miami?