I am – Hercules!!
The great Jane Espenson, who scripted next week’s episode (“Passage”) of “Battlestar Galactica,” says this about tonight’s installment:
“Imagine being told you're following this. I'm the act that follows The Beatles."
Ooo, as Merv would say.
Michael Taylor (“Deep Sapce Nine,” “Voyager”) makes his “Galactica” scripting debut with “Unfinished Business.”

Adama schedules a boxing tournament on Galactica to let the crew relieve tensions between the former settlers of New Caprica and those who remained with the fleet during the Cylon occupation. Michael Trucco, Kandyse McClure.

But TV Guide is not telling you everything! Learn what it’s hiding, via the miracle that is invistotext.
Bill Adama Vs. Galen Tyrol is the undercard to Apollo Vs. Starbuck. And the referee for both fights lacks stereo vision.
9 p.m. Friday. SciFi.

Don't mean to sound sexist, but there's a reason we don't do it here on Earth. Weight-classes aren't just there for the hell of it. Apollo vs. Starbuck (going off the preview)....I'll reserve judgment for now, but anybody who knows anything about boxing would know that allowing fighters with such major differences in weight-class to compete, regardless of sex, would be extremely dangerous.

...it's not just going to be 41 minutes of boxing. It'll probably have less than 5 mins of boxing thrown in between the reasons why they're boxing which could have some pretty intense storytelling in there

Well we know how good a boxer Adama is, the question is how good has Apollo learned or is Kara a better scraper. I'd like to have seen Starbuck take on that female pilot who got on her nerves but winners can't be choosers.

Boxing? Boxing? No MMA on the Battlestar? No placing a dog's skull on a stick after a viscious team battle? No Starbuck in a thong and tight fitting nipple defining bra?
At least Baltar is still the Alpha male.

We have a cubic buttload of non digested material to deal with and they go with an episode that has been done on a jillion shows? What the hell is my beloved Galactica thinking? If my beloved Sharon isn't a the card girl I'm going to shoot someone.

and said that it's one of the best of the new season. So maybe certain assholes should chill the fuck out and actually wait and watch the episode before declaring that the show has 'jumped the whatever'.

They should have learned their lesson from Babylon-5; the Bab-5 episode, "TKO", was about boxing. It was the worst Bab-5 episode ever (along with Grail). The difference is Bab5 did it in its first season, while it was still finding its legs; BSG should know better.

Look what Rob Thomas just said about VM:
Rob Thomas reveals: There has been talk—more than talk—about dropping the whole big mystery idea after this middle mystery and to do all stand-alone episodes and sort of a combination of a few things. The network is behind it, and I am interested in heading in that direction. One feeling is that the big mysteries keep away the casual TV viewers, and the other is that the thing that has been least successful since season one—meaning the things we get the most complaints about—are the big mysteries. My design in season one was that Veronica’s best friend was dead, and every season regular had an integral role in the mystery. And unless they wanted every year to kill Veronica’s friends, it’s hard to have the same emotional connective that’s worth spending seven, eight, nine episodes on a mystery. It’s one of the things we are deciding on right now. [...] But what I think we might do is the final mystery we were going to run instead of running it as our final five is just to play those as stand-alone episodes and maybe contract that big mystery into a two-episode thing with a cliffhanger as just a trial balloon. And hopefully before season four, we’ll see how it works. It seems like a good time to do it—a good fun test balloon. Try it over five and see how fans and non-fans react. [...] We will still have ongoing personal life stories from Veronica, so there will be romantic relationships and the normal travails. We just wouldn’t have a mystery at the core. [... Logan and Veronica] are not over. But it will be a rocky road. [The next arc is about who killed the dean...] He is the only one who is dead. He did not kill his wife and her lover.
No more arcs and just standalones? Seems fine, but the show would be much worse in my opinion, and it looks as if this idea worked, season 4 wouldn't have an arc at all.

In The fifties Sugar Ray Robinson The best boxer pound by pound who ever lived held three crowns in three diffrent weight class at the same time. he was going for a forth the light heavy weight crown when the reporters asked his manager in the locker room before the fight. "If you win tonight who do you go after next?" Robinson's manager spke right up, "WE WANT MANCIANO NEXT THE HEAVY WEIGHT CHAMP!" Robonson turned to his manager and said, "What are you trying to do, get me murdered?"
Marciano was no wear near the boxer Robinson was, but he would have destroyed him. Remember a good big man will always beat a great small man!

I say bring it on - I need my weekly BSG fix. Now, it wasn't so much of a groaner for me seeing this weeks previews. However, it does look like it skates close to "soap-drama-stylings".<P>But this show constantly amazes me with how certain things play out. I'm sure this episode will end up being much, much more than it appears. Rarely does BSG pull its punches (pun intended).

Ok, TKO sucked, The Fight (VOY) sucked, and frighteningly, Taylor has a story credit on the latter.
But you guys who are bitching ignored three very important words before 'Voyager' there: Deep Space Nine.
Dude wrote The Visitor. You can all shut up now.

First you guys seem to love season 3. Now apparently you hate it. Also everyone immediately dumps on a boxing episode just because they have to bitch about something. Wait til this show gets cancelled next season when suddenly everyone calls this season brilliant even though you all clealrly hate the show enough to constantly bitch about it.

I went through withdrawal last week (where would I be without OnDemand?) As I posted before, I am a bit concerned about this episode, but I too am "reserving judgment." The only question I have is why couldn't it have been FLEET OLYMPICS (with a hat tip to Lords of Kobol) or even VIPER RACES?

Do Cylons use petroleum or water based sexual lubricants? I am looking forward to tonight, although the weight class thing is dead on. IRL someone would be seriously harmed. And just wait, the Pyramid episode is coming. Will that jump the shark for them? No. So far they seem to have no intention of introducing daggits, so I'll tolerate some sports / sports metaphor episodes even if they are only of moderate quality. Hope they are excellent. One can even suck. In no way does that interfere with the enjoyment of BSG as a whole.

loses himself in a Dixon Hill Novel. Ok, Ok, kidding aside, judgement remains reserved until I've seen tonights eppie. BG has continued to be interesting so far; Please, just don't start going south now.

I'm gonna say that it's probably some sort of composite between an organic and non-organic lube. A Cylon would certainly not want a "malfunction" of the loins due to a substance that was not compatible with their most basic circuitry.<P>You and NoHubris do make an interesting point: why not have the crew engage in a Pyramid tournament? The game has already been established and even the names of teams from the Colonies have been referenced in recent episodes. Perhaps Admiral Adama determined that the tension in the fleet was so thick that it actually demanded a few jabs and body blows to cut through it all.

"Exodus Pt. 2" was better than most feature films, as far as drama and action go. Even "Hero" was a good episode, and from the description. However, the virus episode WAS pretty weak. I don't like seeing too much of Cylon life on the base stars -- especially with the cheesy 80's Vegas-lounge production design.

...is just stupid. Such fights would be over as soon as the man landed one good punch. So unless the men never land a punch, or they are complete pussies, then its just ridiculous. What is it with Hollywood and such fights? Isn't this show supposed to be a sort of realistic science fiction?

If BSG is doing a boxing episode, it will be good (or it had better be!) >p>
Still, there is a very bad Voyager episode with Chicotay (sp). That was smelly pants that was! Makes you think. But surely Startreck has covered almost every premise going. Like South Park had a go at Family Guy/Simpsons saying Simpsons had done every comedy premise ever. <p>
BSG has earned a lot of credit with me since it started, with Exodus pt2 being just about the best hour of drama full stop I have ever seen. Keep the faith, Brothers and Sisters, Even if Ron re-cycled ideas they will still be through the BSG filter. They will be good. Sudden thought...what about a BSG Best Of Both Worlds senario! That could be very good!

seemed cheesily feelgood and a waste of Adam Baldwin and the Northern Exposure guy. And props for mentioning The Phoenix! People don't seem to be paying attention here, but this boxing episode is mostly flashback to fill in some of the lost time at the end of last season - the very thing that most of you people were complaining about when they skipped it! Never happy, I tell ya.

Nohubris. Baxter....I expect to see some more Lee-Apollo-Creed after this ep. Interesting that the sci-fi show veterans do shows about boxing. So if they got an ER writer, it would be the most out-there fantastical sci-fi shit you could imagine? Btw I hated all those ST spin-off shows. I haven't had a smoke yet so maybe I'm just looking for a flame...but ST should have died with Khan.

When B5 did it's boxing episode it was and is reviled as the worst B5 episode EVER. Hopefully this will not be the case tonight. I do agree that this reeks of a "oh noes! We blew our budget resucing the colonists from new Caprica!!!!!1111ONE!111 What do we do?"

I can take the ties, phones, hummers and general Earth-like stylings of the BSG crew. But to have the actual same sport of Boxing, invented on Earth centuries ago to have developed in an alien culture is just retarded. At least give them different gloves or make it kickboxing or have them in a hexagonal ring or something... which would actually make sense given the "corners cut off" paper in the BSG-verse. But at least make a fucking effort to pretend they are from a different culture/history to us...

Boxing as a martial art is heavily dependent on upper body strength. Naturally a woman is at a disadvantage. That is why although I enjoy it, it has always seemed a rather limited martial art. In styles where your legs are utilized to a greater degree, a woman of equal size is not necessarily at a disadvantage. Just as men have superior upper body strength, women often have better lower body strength and because of the physiology of their hips, they have a lower center of gravity which gives them an advantage in grapples and throws. But boxing a woman IRL is just beating up a girl. On TV, it's a chance to see hot sweaty woman flesh, something I can say nothing bad about.

And I'm still going to stict to my assertion that casting Big Show as the Kingpin, showing him from angles like Brando in *Apocalypse Now*, and dubbing the voice would have pwned what we got onscreen with MCD in the role in MSJ's travesty known as *Daredevil*. And Mr. Nice Gaius, you retain your spot as one of my favorite other AICN posters. Heh.

I kinda like the new ones, but for me Dr Who will always be Tom Baker (although Peter Davison was a good Dr too). The new Dr Who would benefit from The Master. But Russell Davies on detirmined to sex it up too much. Its creepy coming from him. <p>
When BSG does it, it hot, dirty, and ballsy. I cant think of another show that could dipict a threesome in perfect context of the show, and not just cheep titalation (although titalated I was! :) )

That episode was like the writers said, "OK, let's just get all the shipping stuff out of the way all at once, so no one will ask us questions at conventions any more." Seriously though, Roslin is really hot.

Romance, Galactica style. Can you picture any other way for Apollo and Starbuck to hook up? I mean, I've seen hate-fucks before, but really - Lee and Kara are only happy when they are fighting anyway....
Some of thse flashbacks look 20 years old - never realized how far along this show has come since season one.

It was still good, I liked the flashbacks...but, the boxing was fuckng stupid, and on top of the suicide-bombing, Tigh killing his wife, Helo's treason, the implication of Adama being guilty of instigating the cylon-attack, a half-assed explaination of Bulldog's appearance, and now Starbuck knocking out dudes twice her size....the lameness is starting to build up despite the overall quality of the episodes (tonight's ended up being kind of touching in backwards kind of way) I mean, are they trying make us hate the chacaters? If they keep this up the show will jump the shark, incrementally, but it will jump nonetheless.

The boxing was indeed lame. Especially the unpadded kicks and knees. That is begging for death and serious injury and tension valve value aside, no responsible commander would let his troops decimate themselves. Also Kara's skills RE: power was TV good. No way she hits that hard IRL. Wonkabar, I ask this not in a mean way because my dad is this way, are you the kind of guy who doesn't think it's a good show unless something blows up in the first reel? From a writing standpoint, tonight's episode was tight even if you didn't care for the character development. Bill Adama is still a badass.

After Apollo and Starbuck essentially did a big "Frak You" to their respective spouses, I think Laura Roslin needs to start ordering airlock ejections again.
<p>Loved that first punch from the Old Man, though.</p>

Actually, quite the opposite. I think the character-developement was cheapend by the use of boxing. I think the writers could have been much more creative in they're approach. We don't need Kara to actually jump in the ring with a guy to show she's strong. If they wanted Starbuck and Apollo to fight they should have kept the character a guy. If they want them to fuck, they need to have Kara demonstrate some more female-style cunning....not just another wanna-be guy that we've already seen a million times in countless movies and TV shows. Also, I think Roslyn would have thought very little of such an exibition....out of character imo. No shit about her dad makes up for it. And where the hell are the cylons? They send a raider out to the fleet in the last episode, and now these idiots are fucking around boxing? (And letting them kick and choke no less....lame) You know, I've been watching the old show in order, and I was surprised to find that it actually did follow an arc. On these types of character-driven shows, "Man With Nine Lives" "Murder on the Rising Star" it's made clear that the fleet is safely far ahead of the cylons. This show however, they have an encounter with the cylons and the following episode Adama is risking himself and his two best pilots in a boxing match...with the presidents approval to boot? And in the end it's all just a cheap way of the characters "bonding"....retarded. A 120lb women and a 180lb are allowed to compete (and are seemingly equally matched???....totally retarded) and "box there way to love"???? You know most shows have good ideas that are poorly executed. This show (this season anyway) seems to operate with bad ideas...well executed. I'm not sure how long they can keep it up.

The show was saved by the flashbacks. Flashbacks themselves being an over-used device...hack-way of inserting ideas that weren't there before (such as last week) A sort of "oh wait, I forgot to tell you"... "this and this happend, so now it makes sense". All on top of another cliche "boxing as metaphor of relationships" device, along with the "touph-girl who can whip any guy's ass with powder-puff-punches" thrown in for good measure. Hey man, I give them credit for pulling off a decent and engaging episode. But again, a well-executed mistake is still a mistake.

I watch the seasons when they come in box set so I'm trying to keep up what the consensus is. So basically Battlestar Galactica sucks now right? For all the people who hate the show (which looks like everyone) it looks like it will be cancelled soon considering the ratings. Oh and stop with "jump the shark". You guys have already used it NUMEROUS times for this show. It can't jump the shark multiple times.

Like a few people here, I was surprised by how much this episode moved me. There have been clues since the 3-hour miniseries, meaningful kisses at odd times between Starbuck and Apollo, but nothing ever acted upon because it was Apollo's brother. I loved this turn of events because they've been right in front of us the whole time. I'm glad they hugged each other and through bloody lips said "I missed you" as the credits rolled. Great moment in the show. <p>
I thought the boxing added a dimension of blood and guts and struggle to the episode. Perfect, because how else would the conflict between those who lived through the Occupation and those who stayed on the Battlestars resolve itself? Something bloody needed to happen to make it feel real. Plus, I thought the boxing matches were well-shot and I chuckled when Starbuck grabbed a nip from Tigh after her first win.<p>
One the best episodes I've ever seen.

No argument on the inappropriateness of the boxing practice as it would apply in reality. The box their way to love thing, eh, you know I might side with you on that except I have known a woman who acts JUST like the Kara character. Strangely enough, her own family suspects it is self-destructive and self-loathing behavior stemming from denial she is a homosexual combined with a history of sexual and physical abuse, a theory I have heard here about the Kara character in various bits and pieces of the BSG TB's. The IRL woman? She's nuts and I wouldn't get near her with a 10 ft pole, a hard person to be around, but there are women just that screwed up out there. They just decided to make Kara's motivation be unrequited love rather than a sexual identity issue. Unrequited love is a classic theme. As a teacher I had once said (and he was a POW of the Japanese for a LONG time, he knows suffering) - The two worst things in the world are boredom and unrequited love. And there is that whole Shakespeare thing. Does BSG have uneven quality. Sure. But overall quality is still high. Once they introduce daggits or similar such nonsense, then I'll concede about sharks and jumping be around the corner. Until then, in a TV landscape so devoid of good execution of ANY idea good or bad, I'll stick with BSG over a bumpy road. The ride is fun.

I was actually strangely moved by the episode as well. But I frankly would have prefered a Triad/Pyramid match where Lee and Starbuck start brawling at the end. That might have made more sense/been more convincing I think. And the boxing was just a little easy. In fact, it was such a conviently successful relationship-mender.... that I wonder if maybe Adama should arrange a boxing tournament between the colonials and the Cylons. That would solve everything. But yeah, you're right.... I'll stick with BSG over a bumpy road as well. The episode was still gripping as hell, despite it's bruises, cuts and scratches.

I hear you, WONKABAR. The boxing setup might've seemed a little easy, but when I think about what needed to happen, it makes perfect sense. We've seen soldiers and fighter pilots working out constantly during the show, boxing and kicking in the workout area. It's probably to give soldiers something to do during the long flights in tight lodgings, but also to keep people fit and driven. And they're training to fight, punch, and kill, not play Pyramid, so it makes a kind of sense.<p>
If you would've preferred a Pyramid match between Lee and Starbuck, that's cool. But Pyramid isn't a military game, it's sort of a sophisticated game like basketball. No one punches each other in the face and draws blood until one of the contestants can't fight anymore in basketball. Also, no one in the episode used the term "boxing" to describe the matches. Even Roslin, when she told Bill Adama that her father had been a fight fan so she was too, said "fight" not "boxing". Which, in my opinion, lent an edge of unpredictability to it.<p>
You're right that the writer could've gone another route to make the same point in the episode. It's true. But I liked the fact we saw meaningful, haunting flashbacks of what it was like before the Occupation. There were faces filled with hope and optimism, and many characters (including Ellen Tigh) that died horribly, leaving other characters scarred. The balance of bloodiness, memories, and emotional reunion gave this episode more humanity than I've seen in a while. That's also because Baltar appeared only for a few seconds and the Cylons appeared not at all.<p>
But I still think they should keel haul Helo.

definitely agree with the military aspect you mentioned. At the end of the day it was a bit savage though, and I really didn't buy Kara or any other female being let in the ring with much bigger men...let alone holding their own or KO-ing them in the first round. Some of you may flame me as sexist, but the cold reality of boxing, or boxing-style fighting, is that it is weight-based combat. Anybody Thrace's size would get their ass handed to them if they tried to fight someone that much bigger/heavier. That's the main reason I think Pyramid-ball with a fight at the end would have been more realistic, and maybe even involved more strategy as the fights in this episode didn't seem to showcase much. Still, it worked...if you put aside the fact that the writers don't seem to know shit about fighting-physics. The flashbacks sold the love between Apollo and Thrace and it was kinda touching, if not a bit too obvious a metaphor... "Love is a Battlefield" indeed. Maybe "Hit Me With Your Best Shot" would have been good too..a-there Zombie?

??? Excuse me, Lovecraftfan? EVERYONE? Since that's what you're stating, then I must've definitely missed a talkback or something because while there might be some bitching about a particular episode here or there, BATTLESTAR is still one of the best hours you're going to find on TV and it seems to me there's a helluva lot of love for it still around here. Personally, I think Season 3 so far has been infinitely better than Season 2 was as a whole, other then the final episodes where they brought in the Pegasus. And sorry, I think your prediction that the show is due to be cancelled any moment now is waaaaay off target...

But Apollo and Starbuck are both pricks. Their characters aren't even likeable any longer. Apollo is a sulking bore, always feeling sorry for himself. Has he stopped to notice who he's fucking married to? That young woman is gorgeous. And Starbuck is even worse. She may not have a dick, but she's the biggest prick on the ship. I hope they don't continue in this vein for too long.

...a DirkLon FaceLon stuntcast is a winner in my book! <p>Seriously, though, I was pleasantly surprised again--the writer's took what could have been extraordinarily dull filler boxing match crap and turned it into a way to fill in some blanks from the past, at the same time advancing the character development. It was surprising a few episodes back to see Starbuck offship and married, and to see Apollo married to Dee. It was odd to see Starbuck so abrupt with Anders a couple eps back. And here we see what happened, but not just in a flashback way. They brought it all back to be current and affecting things now. Whether you like them or not, like their decisions or not, like them separate or together, tonight was interesting and put everyone in an awkward place. I loved how the crowd started streaming outta there when they shifted from fighting to embracing....

You're married to an intelligent piece of chocolatey goodness with great baps and you trade it in for a psycho hose beast covered in skanky tatts?!?! That's got to be your worst decision since you decided to have that first extra bit of pudding.
Good ep though.

I think Dualla is gorgeous too but at the same time I still think she is there to set Apollo or the Colonial fleet up down the line. Her name alone attest to that. Back to the story, which centered around Apollo, how does it feel when you act on your feelings and still can't get what you want. Don't you sort of go all limp and bloat up if you can't get the woman you truly desire? Also, I still want to see how Cali fell in love with Tyrol. If I remember, didn't he just beat the hell out of her and he was explaining it to the Chaplin who was a Cylon plant? Plus, Ellen Tigh lives in flashback. Cool.

"Who would you rather sleep with? The beautiful petite/ingenue girl with the gorgeous eyes or the bipolar tomboy butch beeatch?"...This may surprise you, but it's not always about looks. You may want to frak the hell out of the lingerie model, but you may only connect on a deeper level with the less-then-stunning girl. You also have to take into account how many times they've personally saved eachother's bacon. They have a pretty strong bond that existed pre-Galactica as well.

...but Season 3 has been pretty damn good overall. You can't hit home runs every time or they lose their meaning. Like I said above, boxing and Sci-Fi just don't mix: Bab-5's worst episode was their boxing episode, TKO, and now the same can be said for BSG. That doesn't mean I hate the show or the season, but there's always a worst episode in any show. BSG, Lost, Heroes, and VMars are all excellent shows with occasional dud episodes / arcs, but better than anything else out now... and let's not forget how much better they are than the crap from pre-Bab5 television (the first arc / widescreen show in the U.S.). Watching what was my favorite sci-fi/drama show back in the late '80s, Star Trek: TNG is just painful now. Man, that show sucked.

Get yourself hanged by the balls (if you have any) then open up your chest and pour gasoline inside the wound... You are seriously wasting your time posting some shit video made by a bunch of ManMilk drinkers who have never seen a naked woman in their lives. I believe they once tried by renting a porn at the video store, but once there they were amazed by the movie "Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat" being transfered to a dvd, that they changed their idea and rented that one instead... Nice to know you're in their fanclub...

His speech tied this ep. right back into the sweep of the last 2 seasons. Only the next few shows will tell if this was a "standalone" or if he is truly born again hard. If this show is still the bomb (and I submit that it is, and very much so), then Adama will not "hook up" with Roslyn any time soon. She got too close, too. Nope. I think Adama's going on a cyclon hunt. The enemy's blood is in the water, and they need to re-unite with (and hopefully hold a "dance" in honor of) Baltar, anyway. Win-win. Love this show. If it's not the best hour on TV, then it's in the top 3.

Its hard to tell though. It seems like every time there's an episode people hate around here suddenly everyone's saying it jumped the shark (what an overused phrase) or now it sucks. Frankly its hard to tell what people actually think around here.

regarding the various nitpickers who want to quibble over everything from "should they let pilots box" to "girls can't beat boys" to the kicking without pads. stfu. seriously. What show do you like? There isn't ONE show on TV, with the possible exception of THE WIRE, that doesn't take a little dramatic license. Can you name one?<p>You're like my grandfather, who, after watching the best movie, will join in the discussion with such inanities as "in that one scene she had a strand of hair on her face and it cut back to her and the strand of hair was gone." He says that cause he doesn't know what else to say, but even he's smart enough not to post his stupid shit on a message board thinking he's bringing something interesting to the table. Seriously, if you have nothing to say, just read. You don't have to post.
<p>Fantastic episode. If you don't like BSG, then I don't know what does it for you.

I've been watching OBSG (even though I've had it since it came out in the big cylon-head box)...I hadn't really watched most of it since I was a kid, and they never played it in order in syndication...but it totally has an overall arc. With the exception of a few filler episodes, "The Long Patrol" "The Lost Warrior" "Fire in Space" and "The Young Lords" the show is suprisngly good/dramatic/similar to NBSG, and has a continuing story that flows from episode to episode....almost un-heard of at the time. It really should be viewed in order, skipping the above-mentioned episodes of course, and maybe the second half of the original three hour mini-series/pilot. It's actually a pretty damn good show considering the Three's Company/CHiPs era it came out of. Great story, characters, costumes, casting, design, FX and even good writing here and there (hampered by some of the actors delivery. I won't name names, but at least they were all hot). It's really nothing like SW, way better than Buck Rogers, and pretty original/different from anything else (alot of the concepts made it into the new show). Maybe not always well executed, but again, considering it was a 70's TV show and that Universal rushed them into making a full-blown weekly-series instead of a set of annual mini-series like the producers wanted...they did a respectable job. In a way, it really was...well, the BSG of it's time. I really hope they do a version of the Iblis-arc on NBSG. And hey, are Adama and Rosey gonna ever bed-down?

I gotta take issue with the sexist blowhards here about women boxing. Women might be lighter and weaker than men, but boxing, any fighting discipline, also moves on skill. Put a low skill fighter in the ring with a skilled and experienced woman and she'll beat him, never mind weight and power. Starbuck likes her fighting, training and fitness, whereas the douche she went up against first was just some grunt who could be a relative slacker. By the time she faced Apollo, he'd already been beaten up at least once. Besides which he beat her anyway, even after she started kicking and sweeping. This is not outside the realm of possibility.
Frankly, I have a much bigger problem with the Chief beating Adama. I wouldn't have put anything on the fat engineer beating down the lifelong military man and all-round badass, even if he is old. Seems to me Adama handed it to him to make his point, the whole reason he got in the ring. He probably even picked the puffy-round-the-edges Chief to give him the easiest ride.

You watch too many movies. If you wanna believe that someone like Lucy Liu can knock over 200 pound guys as long as she has the right "fighting displine" go right ahead. But don't call people "sexist" for recognizing reality. You could be the best trained light-weight in the world and a half-assed heavy-weight will still kick your ass into next week. You live the land of dragon-punches and wire-fu my friend.

people, cut your fucking griping! this is TV - you know, drama! and it's fucking great. i actually teared up during this ep. this show's acting and character arcs fuckin' rock! so there's some dramatic licence with the boxing - there are also flying robots - get over it.<p>i never get geeks who can't enjoy sci-fi because the laser swords vibrate at the wrong frequency. there is very little - if any - better drama on tv right now!<p>oh yeah, and Callie's fast becoming *seriously* hot, imho. :-P

this isinteresting to me (though completely unrelated to this episode): when BSG began, i wasn't all that into Tricia Helfer. she kinda seemed like standard-issue "hot-playboy-blonde" - a little too artificial for my tastes. over time, though, she's really grown on me - mainly cos we've seen a lot more depth to her character. she's definitely not just a dumb blonde.<p>this is completely irrelevant, i know, but it interested me to find out that my perception of *physical* attractiveness changes markedly in dependence on my perception of character.<p>right, sorry: back to the boxing.

By your logic then, anything that has girls beating up guys is retarded. ALIAS sucked? BUFFY sucked? <p>
plus, have you taken into consideration that Lee was already in a fight with Helo that was called cause he got his ass kicked? Not exactly in top form to fight Starbuck, was he?<p>
And I'm not saying you don't have to post anything but love. Intelligent criticism is always welcomed. What I'm saying is that if you are going to nitpick, what's the point...because you can do that FOR EVERY SHOW. It serves no purpose other than to antagonize. Like an annoying gnat.<p>By the way, you never answered...if there are shows above your elitist quibbles...then what is that perfect show that does everything right?

This Episode was Great. It was Relevant and it was pretty moving. It all can't be Cylons and Spaceships ya know. Sometimes you have to delve deeper into the issues that have been accumilating. well done

seem to be ignoring what the colonial culture is really based on. Zombiesolutions had it right (for once) about portraying them as badass spartans. Their culture is very much based on a Hellenic model, and boxing is the second oldest organized sport that human beings have participated in, with wrestling being the oldest. Naked man on man (man y mano means 'hand to hand' for the dipstick that used that expression in regards to brokeback mountain). One of the things that works so well with BSG, is we get the sense of a real culture, with longstanding ancient-type traditions (like the consecrating the flightdeck with kosher salt a few eps back). All sports are a form of ritualized warfare, some more than others. As trite as the use of boxing in this ep may seem to some people, I don't think a pyramid tourney would have the same visceral effect on the audience, any more than watching Apollo and starbuck battle it out on a basketball court or engaging in an intense round of mini-golf. Boxing, more so than wrestling or fencing or even eastern martial arts, has such a stong contrast between the primal brutality, specificity and refinement of its rules and the grace/timing which is required to excel at it that sets it apart from all other sports. This is why it can be employed for shitty, heavy-handed metaphore (Million Dollar Baby) or well executed human drama (Raging Bull, this episode of BSG). Sorry for the long post, but this was one of the best episodes this season, and I can't stand it when people speak ill of the sweet science.

It's not like I'm coming on here and saying "this show sux!" I'm just saying this was a weaker episode. I mean, we come to these boards to discuss/debate the strengths and weaknesses of our favorite movie/TV/games. Give me a break. Maybe I've been a bit spoiled by Galactica. The show has many, many episodes that are as close to "perfect" as you can get...so maybe I and others have come to expect too much. Is that fair? As far as Buffy and other shows/movies with ass-kicking females...they are in a compeletly different league. You suspend disbelief. You buy them being able to do what they do the same way you buy martial-artists doing double flips in the air. Galactica to date has been a show grounded in reality. Yeah, it's "just TV/drama/sci-fi" but so far they have established it as "realistic". Starbuck knocking guys out with one punch like she's fucking She-Ra or some shit is kinda hard to swallow. I mean, if Sackoff and Bamber REALLY wanted to fight, people would at the very least be concerned. Even if Sackoff was great at boxing, people would be worried about her going toe to toe like that. There's a reason why they have weight-classes in boxing, there's a reason why we don't have inter-gender boxing. The reality is that it would be too fucking dangerous. And yet this supposedy rational crew of the Galactica sees no problem with it? When I watch a show that prides itself...and is hailed as, "realistic" I expect fucking realism. Yeah, yeah, it's "drama" or it's "comedy" or it's "fantasy"... but when a show breaks from the universe it has established, ie Fonzi jumps the fucking shark, then it doesn't matter how entertaining it is, the suspension is broken. I'm not saying BSG has reached that point yet, but if they keep this up it won't be long before Starbuck is starting devices with the snap of her fingers and saying "heeey" or sliding through doorways. Maybe not THAT bad, but seriously, I've seen alot of great shows come pretty close...I know the warning-signs. I gotta express my concerns with others who may have similar concerns. If you don't have them, fine...convince me otherwise. At the very least the ep was a slip IMO...I don't think it's the end, but I think it's time the writer's move on to the bigger arc. We're halfway though the season and we still don't have answers to vital questions posed last year. We waited all this time and no, instead of doing something that's never been done before, lets spend an entire episode making Thrace look like an even bigger freak-show. And yeah, she would have gotten her ass kicked by even a weary Apollo despite how "tough" she's supposed to be. Instead, she and Lee fight there way into a hug? Silly, contrived. Ultimately effective...but an unconvincing fight and a cheap short-cut to emotion at best. That's just the way I see it. I'm sure you disagree, but, whatever...that's fine.

It was Hot Dog who had his ass handed to him by Starbuck.<p>
While I would agree that woman vs. man in the ring is a bit ridiculous, at the same time you can tell that Katee Sackhoff can throw a punch and she would fuck most of us up, size or not, if she has any actual aiming and blocking ability.

You make a very compelling argument. If the intention is to move the show in a more "Warrior-culture" direction (kinda like TOS) that's great. Anything to get Adama to stop moping about past military decisions (the previous episode) would be welcome. And no, that doesn't mean I want more "explosions". Other than the flashbacks the fighing was the physical equivalent of explosions...cheap thrills meant to help deliver (forgive the pun) a bigger emotional-punch. Hey, playahatersball, as a fan of the "sweet-science" you of all people should be the most dismayed by this episode. I don't mind if the Galacticans let Starbuck fight and get bloodied up with anybody she wants in the spirit warrior combat. But c'mon, her not getting fucked up reeks of PC-pandering rather than appealing to those who really understand the physics of fighting. Case in point...Hairy Nutsack. Dude, aiming and blocking are important, yes. But size does matter and cannot be ignored. The sweet-science is about putting power behind your punches. That means weight. You can throw a great punch but if the weight isn't behind it, and you don't use combos to negate wind-ups and telegraphing then it does nothing. Katee didn't appear to put what little weight she had into her punches, and even if she did her hardest punch would be about equal to a higher weight-class' jab. Basically, her straight-right would not produce a knock-out blow in the first round....no way. There's really no secret to fighting, it's all about gravity and human anatomy and using it to your advantage...hence, the "sweet-science". Like I said, there's a reason why a 150pounder doesn't fight a 220pounder. You can believe all you want that blocking or some other such skill will save you, but once the bigger opponent lands their hardest punch (and they will) it will be much harder than yours. Odds are you will lose no matter how tough or skilled you are. I know I'm nit-picking the episode, but if the writers are going to incorporate something into the show, they should at least study up on it. The show was dramatic, but I would have prefered not to have been laughing at it in the midst of said drama.

Or maybe to quibble, I am not sure, but I can say this for a fact - She took a swing at me, I would flip Katee like a cheese omelette. Flip her for real. Then eat her with Coffee, Toast and Jelly, 3 of the unseen cylon hotties.

ooooooh apollo wanted to marry kara. well ok calling this episode entirely filler is unfair. its about 66% quality and 34% "gain more female viewership" bullshit. every excellent show on tv has these episodes.

I could suspend disbelief long enough to belive that Starbuck could get a solid shot to Hotdog's temple and knock him on his ass (try it at home with someone bigger than you, a clean shot to the temple is 100% more effective for cleaning someone's clock than a punch to the jaw), but I totally agree with your point about her being mismatched with Apollo. Except, as I'm typing this, I remember the fact that Apollo was alrady punch-drunk from going nine rounds with Helo earlier in the evening. That alone prolly saved Starbuck from having her pretty face shattered. It's funny that we can accept things like FTL drive without batting an eye, but a little passive-aggressive foxy boxing to solidify some character development and we're all freaking out about it. Yeah, it's a total stretch for the two of them to fight and her not be crippled by the end. Strangely, I found myself questioning the matchup of Helo and Apollo more until I actually read this talkback. So, how about the whole "running out of food plot" next week?

Yeah, starvation...it's about time they dealt with that issue. Sorry to keep bringing up TOS but they dealt with food-shortage a couple times. People are starving on the pilot-episode, and Baltar, after serving time on the prison-barge mentions the shitty beef from the livestock ship. Food also becomes an issue in the The War of the Gods two-parter when Iblis promises more of it and the delivery of Baltar back into the hands of the colonials. I wouldn't be suprised if this next episode is setting up the Iblis/saviour arc...again, promising food and the return of Baltar to the fleet. Except this time it will play through the rest of the season and end with a cliffhanger. Man, I hope this is the case. The show needs some bigger picture theme like Kobol or Pegasus to focus on and let the characters evolve within that kind of context rather than criminal underworlds and boxing matches within the fleet. It was in those same areas where the old show faultered. The best shows were the the first part of the opener, and the two-parters...Kobol, Pegasus, Iblis, I haven't gotten through the whole "Terra"-arc yet. But a similar pattern seems to have developed with the new show as well.

your point is well-taken re. the bar BSG has set for itself re. realism, sci-fi or no.<p>i've had a bit of an issue myself with this since Adama allowed a cylon raider to dock just because he heard Bulldog on the radio... now i, who am not a Naval or any other kind of commander, would have radioed back to him to stand the fuck off while i trained 50% of my available firepower on him, arranged for some very serious security screening (before i let him anywhere near my fleet), scanned the skies and fired up the FTL drive for an immediate jump in case of *any* unusual or potentially hostile activity. that's *my* gripe!<p>now, i don't think they're anywhere near any kind of shark yet - it's still easily one of the very best few shows around - but i guess i'm just a bit over-defensive!

the part with Adama and the Chief was great. One of my gripes of this season is that Adama has been letting everyone get away with everything. <br><br>
The second half with Apollo and Starbuck was a bit more troubling. I'm willing to overlook the differences in weight between them. After all, why gripe about how unrealistic it is for them to fight when this is a show where the space ships make sound in space. <br><br>
However, this is another episode where the writers were willing to knowingly look the other way with believability in order to get tehir message across. Just like in the episode with the cyclon virus where instead of this debate over the morality, all they had to do was threaten to use the virus and get the same effect. They chose the most dramatic way possible, not the most realistic. Now we have a story where the writers wanted to have Starbuck and Apollo solve their problems by fighting, so instead of picking some sport where they could realistically compete, they again chose the most dramatic way, not the most realistic.<br><br>
On some level that is fine. It is a television show after all, so we can expect things used for dramatic effect. However, it is a bit troubling when the writers are willing to throw logic out the window to achieve that drama.

I could feel Apollo's heart crush when he saw Starbuck married. Ouch! I couldn't give two shits about weight class or anything like that. Boxing is the most pointless, barbaric excuse for a 'sport' ever, so I have no problem with it being used metaphorically. When Starbuck and Apollo did finally embrace, I was practically in tears. Because yeah, I've known relationships like that. Beautiful ep.

Even in galaxies far, far away. This had to be the silliest plot setup this side of FIGHT CLUB. Unsettled claustrophobic conflicts? Take a page from NEXT GEN and hire a counselor for chrissakes. Even more unbelievable was the Starbuck/Apollo battle to a draw. Besides the agression factor produced by testosterone, males have on average 40% more upper body strength than women. Plus considerably more lung capacity and no un-aroused sidetrack of blood to reproductive organs. That's if they are otherwise even. Starbuck's giving up about 50 pounds. So even with Starbuck kickboxing and cocknocking, it's hard to imagine her having much success against Apollo. Look at tennis. At the top of their game, the muscular, tall Williams sisters once challenged a male player ranked #200 in the world, Kaarsten Braasch. The result: 6-1 Braasch over Serena, 6-2 Braasch over Venus. Because tennis, like boxing, relies on arm/upper body strength. 'Nuff said.... And once again Adm. Adama is given some ridiculous motive for behaving like an idiot and excuse for yet another stupid speech. I wouldn't follow this flake across the street. Not sure what this ep. was trying to say except, these folks (i.e. their writers) apparently cannot deal with feelings w/o having them kick the snot out of one another. Guess good colonial marriages must have a lot of physical abuse then? Oh, so they're a warrior class? That explains it? Then why does their military leader continually act like a wimp? Think the Spartans would have cried over offending the Athenians? This series is getting increasingly strange with character motivation and whatever the hell message they want to pound. This is the result of the main story arc of finding Earth already floundering, IMHO. I think it only gets intetresting after that happens, as everything changes. Grow some and make it so, next season. Otherwise the series will continue its tired spiral downward ....At least some good non-violent moments with Prez/Adama and Apollo/Starbuck. PS I just remembered, didn't Chief nearly beat to death his future wife-to-be for no apparent reason last year? A good feminist might think this show has a misogynistic bent. And yes, officially, Kara is insane. But aren't they all, just a little? PPS LOST writers admit no coherent plot and just, "making it up as they go." They're not LOST, just in TWIN PEAKS. PPPS Shouldn't claustrophobia be fear of bearded fat men in red?

Remember they bill this as Drama first! The story telling is great in this ep. You get to see why Starbuck and Apollo hate each other when they cut to the Cylon ocupation. I love it Comm Adama calls chief to the ring and really tries to beat the shit out of him saying "If you are in a fighting ring your opponent is not your friend" was a great message on getting the bottom line across. I hope the move to Sunday brings in more views so this does not get cancelled.

wonkabar doesn't want his world view shattered, no offence meant, i like your posts, but the only person here making a big deal about the fight is you, and your beef is that a physically fit, trained woman without fatigue could not have given an equally fit and trained man who'd already been beaten badly by another guy something to think about. she still didn't win, it was apollo who stopped punching when she ran out of steam. if you want to say that couldnt happen, because of this many pounds and that much lung capacity or whatever, fine. I'm not living in fantasy land though. i hate flying chinaman movies.

The drama was great. Personally, if that's a "chick episode," this season could use more of them. At least we see a reason for Apollo and Starbuck to even be "leads" in this show. Their chemistry together elevates Lee's shallow acting abiity to the point where he's almost good. And I for one am thrilled to see that there's some depth and meat to the two years of colony life, providing a more interesting dynamic between some of these characters. (Not to mention some logical justification for that pathetic fat-suit at the beginning of the season.) It is character writing like this that makes any of the action work. Without the characters to care about, it's just a bunch of hot robots and mediocre actors in spaceships with explosions. And to me, this BSG is much more than that.

Generally speaking, I’d agree that pairing a male and a female that are evenly matched technically would heavily favor the male (though a technically superior female can easily beat an inferior male in the ring… I’ve seen this many times). However, there’re a few things that sort of evened out the fight. First, Apollo was already beat up and tired from his previous fight. Fighting even one 3 minute round of boxing against a tough opponent can be tiring and it looks like he went through several while getting knocked around/down in the process. Starbuck had an easy fight against another woman her first go around and was still pretty fresh. So right there, while I’d still give slight odds to Apollo, the matchup isn’t as unbalanced as people might think. If you’ve ever been in a fight against another guy where you’ve fought several rounds and you’ve been hit so hard that you’ve been knocked to the canvas one or more times and your face is bloody and then you’re asked to fight a “butch”, skilled, experienced female fighter, no matter how skilled you might be, you’d be a fool to agree without some reservation. Second, during the actual fight between Apollo and Starbuck, it looks like Apollo was holding back the first few minutes and Starbuck was getting in some decent hits to an already damaged Apollo. Third, you can block, slip, absorb punches to significantly reduce or negate an opponents attack, while also tiring him out significantly which, if I recall, is what Starbuck did.

Agreed on the holding back issue. It looked like he WANTED an ass kicking at first. Once again showing Frank Zappa was right in saying Broken Hearts Are For Assholes. But this went out the window, over the shark, however you want to call it, when she started using elbows, knees and feet without any padding. She would have could have seriously hurt him. If no one else would have said anything, the Doctor would have.

i didnt know sexism was alive and well in the 21st century, but most of the comments seem to support that....im sure there are some physically able females that can fight a man and win, and not just an inferior man...
heck would most of u say ur girlfriends or wives are just baby making machines and should stay at home and cook for u, and when u want to fuck they should drop what theyre doing and spread their legs???
i personally know at least 2 women that arent wookies that can kick any size guys ass, stereotypes are stereotypes

I'm a big fat slob now, but in my youth (all 10-15 years ago), I used to spar on a regular basis. I'm 6'4" 250. I'm pretty confident in saying that with very few exceptions, you put me in a ring back then with someone of a similar skill level, but 30 pounds lighter, and I'd kill them. If it was a chick ? Forget about it. In the history of boxing there is almost no precedent of someone taking out a boxer one weight class up. Every time some middleweight gets it in their head that they can "out box" a heavy, they get killed. With the exception of the silly feel-good fiction that Starbuck wouldve lasted 2 seconds in there against Apollo, it was a decent episode. Would've been better if he knocked her ass out with one punch and then mounted her unconscious body in the middle of the ring while flipping off Anders.

Excellent...my thoughts exactly. Putting aside the "weight/fighting dynamics" issue (and yes, it's a weight-issue slkboxrman, sex has nothing to do with it, a fit 200 pound woman would also have the advantage against a guy weighing a buck-50...get it?...you fucking tool) as you said robot, the bigger issue is the fact that Adama and Roslyn etc. seem to think that engaging in a "pointless and barbarirc" sport is the way to solve personal problems. Adama agonizes over whether crossing some stupid nuetral-zone line was a violent/provacotive act , yet a week later tells his crew to go beat the hell out of each other? So, young would-be couples can only come to grips with their affections after they duke-it-out...are you fucking kidding me? And the President and all those in the authority seem to think this shit is fine? Hey maybe Adama and Roslyn can box each other the next time they have a disagreement? Does that sound lame to you? Maybe now you're starting to get idea. This was not deep drama...it was deeply flawed drama. So deep in fact, that apparently alot you don't see it. So they didn't use guns and explosions to drive the drama...they still resorted to mindless violence, and it contradicts the so-called "thoughfulness" of the characters that the writers have been ramming down our throats the last couple weeks. You have been fooled. The issue isn't whether or not Starbuck can fight a guy or not, it why the fuck would she want to...and why the fuck would a guy want to inflict bodily damage to her? Are the writers trying to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that these colonial pricks SHOULD be blown the fuck out of the sky? The old show may have gotten a little too "Little House on the Prarie in space" at times. But this show is starting to turn into "White-Trash" in space. Seriously, these people are becoming a progressevely more jaded, selfish, indecisive, cynical, psychotic, bumbling group of assholes with each passing week. Perhaps BSG is becoming (like the old show did in some ways) a bit too reflective of the times.

...he put the skirt on. Actually, if the show was becoming too reflective of the times, they would have dealt with their conflicts with mandatory team exercises where people role play and recite monologues about their feelings in front of everyone else, while a fat black crew member or a too-tall middle-aged balding guy with an intolerably synthetic wife cooed approval in the background. Boxing is as good or better a way to resolve conflict than Oprahing it would have been.

"{T}hese people are becoming a progressevely more jaded, selfish, indecisive, cynical, psychotic, bumbling group of assholes with each passing week." - Are you talking about BSG or the Bush-Cheney Cabal of Evil? You may be taking concerns over a made up cultures ethics too seriously, that is unless it is the corollary value of the writing that troubles you. You often make very valid points in a very lucid fashion about the uneven quality of the show, but man, that last bit was a touch too caffeinated if you get my drift.

IMHO the episode was OK only because of points in Adama’s speech (without the speech – well…) I stick to my guns about the boxing aspect, though. Some other form of competition – like a race-around-the-Galactica obstacle-course, including the right to trip up the competition -where Starbuck and Lee end up in a fight would have worked better imo. Only the fight should have been a full on, soldier to soldier street fight (building on and reflecting back to Kara vs. Tigh card table fight in year one) with martial arts and any other weapon they could get their hands on to clobber each other (pipes, tables, chairs, metal containers, coffee mugs -- just pick one or more). It would have been more realistic – “realistic” being the catch phrase. After reading the posts above, the realism in this episode, on a show with a rep for non-Trek realism, seems to be the issue at hand (at least BSG has sparked another cool debate)…That aside, as has been alluded to already, Adama’s speech should ratchet up the tone and intensity for the rest of the season. If not, then this really was a filler episode. BTW, if they had gotten soft over the New Caprica period, wouldn’t the rescue and escape from New Caprica serve as the recovery? That’s why the show, which is nonetheless still my favorite, must pivot on the speech.

I thought that Bill Adama used the chief as a weapon with which to punish himself for his own failures. Bill let the family break up back at New Caprica, and it all started when he agreed to let the Chief and Callie move planet-side.

Personally, I felt it jumped it (officially) with the "miracle cure" episode. This season was getting a bit better until the last few episodes. Ever since the Cylon Flu, the episodes have ended in a very anti-climatic manner. As for Starbuck boxing, I was expecting her to get disqualified once she started kicking. She couldn't beat Apollo in a straight-on fair fight, so she resorted to more 'girlie' tactics.

Girlie tactics? Wrong. She was using her elbows, knees and feet like a trained martial artist. I suppose you think Bruce Lee was girlie. Boxing is a VERY limited martial art. Would the Doc or Adama have let her without padding? No. Ever been in a sparing ring? Even with pads, knees, elbows and feet can do damage much easier that fists because of bone and the fact that your legs contain about a third of your bodies total muscle mass. To suggest one can punch harder than kick is spoken like a man who has never spared. So is calling the tactics girlie.

when he challenged the women wrestlers. Sad and Pathetic. I know that whole 'manhood' thing is important to you. Good luck with that. As far as 'reality' goes, I'd refer you to the classic exchange from Firefly. Wash: "That sounds like science fiction!" Zoe: "We live on a spaceship, dear." It was an excellent character study. You can keep your sharks. Still the most brilliant show on tv.

I know this was mentioned after an earlier episode but how come Lee is back to being a Major. I know the Pegasus is gone and all but a Battlestar does not a Commander make. I mean Adama is still an Admiral.

I double dare you to step in the ring with Laila Ali or an in-her-prime Cynthia Rothrock. When you're getting your nose cracked back into place, remember to lecture us about upper body strength and relative weight. --- Apparently, none of you ever watched Sugar Ray Leonard fight Marvin Hagler. Hagler outweighed Leonard by more than the amount Apollo outweighed Starbuck, but Sugar Ray managed to beat Hagler soundly. Power ain't everything, kiddies; speed is much more important, and Apollo was throwing WIDE punches and telegraphing his moves so badly that a decent fighter (like Kara) could easily slip inside and nail him. --- Let's also talk about how tough Starbuck is physically: This is a woman who pulls major g-force on a regular basis when flying a supersonic space fighter. Her body is well conditioned, and her reflexes are better than just about ANYBODY ON THAT SHIP, seeing as she's the best damn pilot they have. I have no trouble believing she could give Apollo a run for his money.

Yeah, I did pour on the syrup a little thick in that last post....wasn't sure exactly where I was going with it. I was reaching for something...didn't get a hold of it. You'd think I hated the show if that was the only post you read....definite filler-episode on my part. And Slkkboxrman... sorry I called you a fucking tool. A friendly "d00ch" would have been more appropriate....sorry. So, any of you think I might be on to something with next week's ep being the big saviour set-up? ( A few posts back)

That is exactly WHY I called it 'girlie'. Kicking is easier to cause damage, that is why Starbuck had to resort to it. She couldn't get the job done with her fists alone. So she had to cheat. I was just surprised she didn't go for the super-girlie groin-kick. LOL

Yeah, this show has spaceships and robots, but why no laser guns? I know the ballistic weapons give it a "grittier" feel, but I would bet that we invent a practical laser gun before we travel faster than light. But of course I love the show.

A well-trained man will almost always beat a well-trained woman (assuming he weighs more).
A half-trained man who outweighs a woman might beat her if he gets lucky, due to better upper-body strength.... but probably not.
An untrained man, regardless of strength or weight, will never ever beat a trained woman.
I work with a former champion-level female boxer. I've had some training, and outweigh her by A LOT. She could kick my ass without trying, in a proper boxing match. In a streetfight I´d cover my face and charge her, and would probably win.

Simple reason. It is not that they don't have them, but that they probably would NEVER use a beam weapon in a ship. You can limit the potential damage to a ship's hull by a combination of materials technology and smart ballistics in choosing load size, bullet materials and weight of the projectile. There are 3 Rules for living in space that have to be observed or everyone could die. Avoid radiation. Avoid depressurization. Avoid getting your atmospheric gases imbalanced or corrupted. In short- rads-pressure-air. Beam weapons are for planetary attack where rads-pressure-air are not an issue or ship to ship combat where you are trying to breach the hull. And for those of you taking notes, always keep your enemy at your feet or at another set reference point in relation to your body. Reduces disorientation issues. Now if I can just find the keys to my Battlestar . . .

Great name, by the way, Grrr. Invader Zim has spread his alien house tentacles far and wide, it seems.<p>
To answer your question: yes, season three is worth getting. If you haven't watched any Season 3 episodes, I can tell you it's been a slightly darker, more topsy-turvy season, and also a more uneven season than one or two. But the third and especially the fourth episodes were some of the most kickass -- and controversial -- stories yet filmed. Battles raged with full-scale, full-on intensity, and I think most people here loved it.<p>
But several new issues and plot twists this season have added quite a bit to the story, even though not everyone would agree on which characters have made sympathetic decisions. I suppose this echoes reactions to seasons one and two.<p>
I've dug season three so far, and I think most -- but not all -- talbackers would recommend it.

Your point on the reasons against directed energy weapons inside a vessel make good sense - I was thinking more about the ship-to-ship myself. Beam weapons are weapons of light, and basically as soon as you target someone they are screwed - there is no dodging the speed of light. Of course they would still need ballistic ship-to-ship missiles to deliver nuclear ordinance, but I would definitely zap everything else. Although all those tracer bullets look pretty cool...

Good point, lynxpro. The episode was a bit "Lost-ish" with its flashbacks interwoven into the story, it's true.<p>
But maybe the reason no one's compared the "Lost" episode format to "Battlestar" is because "Lost" overuses this format, creating its own, troublingly huge story that doesn't seem like it'll ever be able to conclude. Questions beget more questions, which beget more questions, and thus the show suffers from "mystery-itis," which is why so many people are demanding answers to the show's most basic questions.<p>
"Battlestar" doesn't suffer from this. The writing is generally clean, direct, and character-based, and when the show resorts to flashbacks, it's for a reason, as the episode showed us.<p>
Also, I don't think using flashbacks is necessarily "Lost-ish." Lots of movies and shows use flashbacks, and we don't compare them to "Lost." The problem is that "Lost" has serialized this format, in my opinion, leaving so many threads open that all threads are open, so there's never any conclusive drama. It's very sloppy.<p>
Therefore, I personally wouldn't call using flashbacks "Lost-ish," since it's a storytelling device that's been around since the dawn of television.<p>
Just my opinion.

I got the impression the flash backs were not just there for us but the characters were experiencing them at the same time, which explains Lee getting as distracted as he was. The fight between Lee and Kara has been a long time coming and I loved that Duala and Anders both seemed to know exactly what was going on between them and just let it go on. I don't think Lee and Kara should be together but hopefully now they'll at least be friendly again. Kara is a lot more fun when she is only mildly bitchy instead of the self-destructive mess she has been lately.
And does anyone know what the deal was with Lucy Lawless telling a Centurion to shoot her so she could be reborn a couple episodes ago? What the hell was that about?

Flashback/Re:Grrrr...Well said on both counts. The flashbacks on BSG actually move the show forward, whereas on LOST they seem to bog it down. BSG-FBs fill in gaps rather than creating new ones. I would also agree that this has been an excellent season regardless of problem I've I have had with it here and there. I can disagree with elements/ideas that a show presents and still find it interesting and entertaining as hell...and I think most of the people here feel the same way. It is out of love that we watch so closely and post on these boards. BSG is always compelling even to those who think this or that aspect of a given episode is a mis-fire. So, to all the n00bs...BUY SEASON THREE! The rewards are many. Btw you guys shouldn't be reading these boards anyway...I try to avoid boards or reviews of things I haven't seen yet, but that's just me.

Wonkabar's remarks about flashbacks are correct. However, whether they fill in gaps or create new ones, the heavy use of flashbacks is very much LOSTish - HEAVY USE being the operative phrase (Yes, flashbacks are an ancient device). But BSG's greatest episodes (e.g. 33, Water, Hand of God, Pegasus arc, Kobol's Last Gleaming and the Exodus arc) have not relied on the heavy use of flashbacks. Such use is a definite change in tone and one that certainly takes a page from LOST IHMO. Heretofore, rather than relying on flashbacks, BSG's best episodes have employed much more imaginative methods of story telling. Dont't get me wrong. I'm not saying its bad in the full sense of the word. It's just not as imaginative as a device imo.

...in general Answer questions or fill in gaps, rather than create more questions and such. I am not a big fan of flashbacks in general, but fortunately they are not over-utilized in BSG, and are done pretty well when used.<p>Keel Haul Helo!

...have been key story devices in the last two episodes (Hero and Unfinished Business), which have given the show its LOST feel. This does not necessarily mean flashbacks are over utilized in the whole show, but its use in back to back episodes can be seen as somewhat redundant (unless we frame the last two shows as the flashback arc and are now reverting to BSG's well received forward moving way of doing things). Anyhow, next episode, The Passage, looks to be very good - and non flashback! ;-)

There are weeks when I don't think I watch the same show that some of you do. Because I finally caught the replay of this past week's episode and I thought it was great. (I know, I'm a big whore for BSG.)<P>Based upon the commercials, I wasn't really expecting too much out of this one. I had a similar feeling about the "Bulldog" episode. And yet there I was again being pleasantly surprise with what they are able to do with minimal set pieces and sheer acting gravitas. (You can't have a "Adama Atmo-FTL Maneuver" every show.) I think there was a lot more to this one than some of you may want to admit. Yes, a lot more...and they did it without a Cylon in sight.<P>NoHubris is right - Adama's speech was the key, underlying point. And with it, I think he snapped EVERYONE back to attention. The days of letting people off easy (Helo!) may be over. Makes me wonder if the writers read these TBs!<P>Great stuff as usual. So say we all.

Yes, yes. You are right about the fact that we can't have Atmo-FTL maneuvers all the time. Like your name sake, you have offered a healthy dose of medicine - dare I say a bitter pill (as in the right medicine, just not honey flavored like the home remedy, per se) - though spot on.

greetings, first of all.<p>I will also say, I am little tired, too, so forgive me for not NOTICING MNG's grammatical errors! :-)<p>NoHubris, I haven't followed Lost, since I heard more bad things than good about it (in terms of frustrating teases, wandering aimlessly, and such), so I will agree with you that they started using flashbacks pretty often of late, and risk overuse, but so far no problem. Remember a few months back it seemed that every single show on every single channel started an episode with some big startling event, then cut to "24 hours earlier"? I guess we are in flashback phase.<p>MNG, I agree with you, as well. This episode's previews left me ready to be bored, and they (once again) surprised the heck out of me. A good story does not always need special effects to be told, and character development most often occurs when the special effects are absent, it seems to me. Adama's speech was, to me, even more subtle and perfect than the face value: He took the blame for the differences on himself, not necessarily because he deserved it, but in the role of Responsible Leader. He wanted to heal the divisions amongst them, and so gave them himself as the one to blame, rather than each other. In doing so he made their differences seem rather petty, at that. He knew what he was doing at the outset, and even said "I'm not going to win" to clue the less clued-in folks (like me) that he was up to something more than a simple fight with the Chief.<p>The "previously on BSG opener" showed again possibly the single most powerful moment in the entire series: Tigh saying "not everyone..." I am glad they show that now and again.<p>let's hope for consequences [Keel Haul Helo!].<p> One cylon was in sight, and I am O So Thankful for that: Her Sighness ShaBoomeron AthenAgathon the Graceful {sigh} was there for me....{sigh, again}

..Keel Hauling Helo looks like its coming. I do like Pre-Saboteur-Helo so I hope he gets restored somehow. Maybe this is how Tigh returns to his XO position. Forgive the sentence structure - I'm tired too (fell asleep after work, woke up and logged on, but now I'm fading).

he gets better. In the ComCon footage, Ron says there will be very un-expected pairings. My moneys still on Tigh and Starbuck getting together in an ugly self-destructive way (like Buffy and Spike). They both understand each other and how damaged they both are. Micheal Hogan just plain rocks as Tigh (as you can tell by my name!!!). <p> So Say We All!!!!

<p>This is AICN, people are just nitpicking, but season 3 has been very strong. I think definitely better than season 2. Hell, watching Exodus Pt. II alone makes it worth it.</p>
<p>I had a problem with the boxing too. Although not so much because Starbuck was able to beat down "Jamie", but because it was just too similar to modern day boxing. I understand when they use hum-vees and whatnot to keep costs down, but this is an alien culture here. How hard would it have been to create a more unique vision of fighting? Still if this is considered a filler episode then I no real complaints.</p>
<p>Dualla didn't deserve that shitbag, but I still have this lingering feeling that she's a cylon. I had always thought that getting close to Lee was all part of her assignment. Lee should be old enough to know not to chase after the crazy chic either. Just where does he expect that one to go? Then again, he's always been a little unstable himself.</p>

chromedome - You are right, there was a Cylon in this episode. How could I miss the lovely Sharon/Athena?! My apologies for grossly overlooking her Sighness.<P>Flashbacks - What I like about how they're incorporated into BSG is that you can see exactly why they are influencing the current scene. LOST's flashbacks (as of late) seem to only hint at motivations and make vague allusions to clues and such. When BSG uses flashbacks, they always seem to have direct impact and importance. They help to make the show's characters even more 3-dimensional by giving us something with actual substance.<P>The Boxing - Adama's scene with Roslin where he explained it being a longstanding tradition onboard warships made it work for me. I was reminded of a couple of things: A) What he said is true in the real world. And Ron Moore would be more than aware of this with his military background/interest. B) Boxing has been a fairly consistent setting on the show: Adama & Lee's sparring match, Helo & Starbuck in "Scar", etc.<P>The Fights - The purpose of Adama vs. Chief was for Adama to let everyone know that they were still soft and that they needed to be ready to kick ass no matter the time/place/opponent (whether it be a Cylon or the Admiral himself). Like I said earlier, he put everyone on notice = the Occupation is over, the Rescue succeeded, and discipline is the new order of the day.<P>As for Apollo & Starbuck, I don't think their match had anything to do with "sexism" at all. The flashbacks during their fight were all Apollo's which gave me the impression that he understood their cumulative anger better than she did. So, my impression was that Apollo wasn't even trying to knock her out. But he was trying to literally knock some sense back into her head. (The look on her face when she took that shot to the nose was fantastic.) Apollo knew what he was doing perhaps just as much as the Admiral. But it was on a more personal level IMHO. Remember, he's the Iceman to her Maverick. They both only seem to be at ease when they're together.<P>Finally, Dualla is frakkin' hot (I really hope she doesn't turn out to be a Cylon). And watching Hotdog get knocked out by Starbuck in 10 seconds was priceless. Until next week...JUMP!

They had a "roundtable" with Ron, Mrs. Ron and some of the actors including a new actor who is in the last three-parter. He plays... SPOILER a lawyer defending someone in a court (and he alsois said to not be on the show after the season finale). They either just finished principal photography for the last episode or are in process of doing so (and Mrs. Ron had to shut them up - repeatedly - in order to not spoil things further). It does not take much to connect the dots - looks like Baltar will be put on trial for war crimes and some characters make a choice that (paraphrasing) "negates the moral high ground set when they decided to not fix the election" last year. Rigged outcome to the trial (guessing)?

...while I do envy Helo his proximity to Her Sighness, his Keel Hauling is deserved for his sabotage. I liked him okay before that:he was fine as a Grunt-Made-Good-In-This-Man's-Army sorta way, but he was about as smart as a bag of rocks. His sudden Conscience Of Humanity role was waaaay outta character, and his unpunished IN ANY WAY sabotage is completely outside of the rules of the military he is in, or the storylines that preceded this. Starbuck was grounded for far less a long time ago, and Tigh has been removed from duty at least twice (?) now... <p>And yes, I will thank him to keep his treasonous paws off of Her Sighness, too!<p>
Keel Haul Helo!!

...you are forgiven for failing to notice Her Lovely Sighness.<p>Frankly, if I am the Only One Who Notices Her, how special does that make me!? :-)<p>Please, let her utter the word "chromedome" in an episode just once. Once is all I ask. [sigh] [heavy sigh]

...probably limits the choices somewhat in unarmed combat for any such species. I think boxing was a fine choice--not too distracting from the REAL story. We did not have to guess at rules or such, we are familiar with it, and so pay attention to the story and characters. Had they tried to invent a new form of martial art for the episode, well, this TB would be full of critics and "experts" on the subject who would pick it apart and miss the whole point. I submit all complaints about Starbuck Whoopin On Apollo as exhibit A, and rest my case.

calling Sharon or Boomer or Athena "her Sighness" is totally gay and creepy. It sounds like a nickname that a Browncoat or a Buffybacker would make up. You'd never say that in person to another human being, and you know it. It's up there with "Dr. McDreamy" and "TomKat." Sure, Battlestar Galactica is kickass, but c'mon. You guys sound retarded.

but we don't all use cutesy, smarmy nicknames for characters we like. See the distinction? And you're telling a dude who names himself "Son of Batman," uses adjectives like "gay" and "kickass," words like "c'mon" and whose major criticism is "you guys sound retarded" to lighten up? Hello, pot. Meet kettle.

...the best nickname ever bestowed by a TBer was, I think, the one from Shepherd Bauer, who named Jessica from Heroes "PMSsica" And of course, there is the famous "Jack FUCKING Bauer!" I think the best one that I coined was DirkLon, but PMSsica is just spot-on brilliant! I like "InHead Six", too, just can't remember who came up with that one.

And as the Son of Batman? How lame, considering how much he was against Ra's Al Ghul being in *Batman Begins* (which I was the long term advocate for). Ironic, since it is the child of Al Ghul's loins that gives birth to the Son of Batman... But I digress... But back to BSG...

re. aliases, i submit: No.6 = "Toastrack".<p>is there a season break coming up, and if so, when's it back? i'm in the uk, so i'm not clued up on US tv scheduling customs. (hey, execs - i'd watch it on tv *with* all the sponsors ads, but your archaic licensing laws mean most of the world has to *wait* for that. modern folk don't wait. thank you, bittorrent... you guys would make *more money* in the long run if you could get your collective shit together for global simultaneous releases of movies, games, tv shows, etc.)

Boomer is always good. And I'm still looking for good Boomer/Athena chick fight. Hopefully nekkid, but i don't think that would get passed the censors.
I know Athena and Boomers(plural) Mud Wrestling. That would be just the "it" episode wouldn't it.
Seriously though. Great character ep for Lee (Adama not Bruce) and Starbuck(the pilot not the coffee). And the Adm. Adama/ Cheife Tyrol fight is a can't miss.

Boomer is always good. And I'm still looking for good Boomer/Athena chick fight. Hopefully nekkid, but i don't think that would get passed the censors.
I know Athena and Boomers(plural) Mud Wrestling. That would be just the "it" episode wouldn't it.
Seriously though. Great character ep for Lee (Adama not Bruce) and Starbuck(the pilot not the coffee). And the Adm. Adama/ Cheife Tyrol fight is a can't miss.

Boomer is always good. And I'm still looking for good Boomer/Athena chick fight. Hopefully nekkid, but i don't think that would get passed the censors.
I know Athena and Boomers(plural) Mud Wrestling. That would be just the "it" episode wouldn't it.
Seriously though. Great character ep for Lee (Adama not Bruce) and Starbuck(the pilot not the coffee). And the Adm. Adama/ Cheife Tyrol fight is a can't miss.