.308's are great and I love them, but they're no longer cheap to shoot and if you haven't already become familarized with your particular .308 rifle after shooting thousands of rounds of ammo in practice the extra power (and recoil) of the .308 over the .223, 7.62X39 or the 5.45X39 isn't really going to do you much good because unless you're rich, you won't be able to shoot it all that much. I'm guessing that you've just recently read the Boston Gun Bible or something like it and now you're having trouble deciding which .308 rifle to go with because Ken Royce touted the .308 over the .223 so much. The only thing is that the time that he talks about in that book is already over and unless the prices on .308 ammo come down at some point in the future (I kind of doubt that it's going to happen anytime soon) cheap ammo for it is a thing of the past.

In reality for me the only .308 Win rifle that I'd be looking at buying would be a really accurate bolt action rifle like a Tikka T3 Tactical or a Rem 700 Police/PSS.

If I was just getting into it and I was looking at buying a military style semi-auto rifle I'd go with something else that I could afford to shoot until it became an extension of my body. A smaller caliber rifle that you're REALLY good with will help you out a whole lot more in any situation (hunting, defense, civil unrest or civil war etc) than a bigger caliber will that you've only been able to shoot just a few hundred rounds out of.

Right now I'd buy a rifle in one of the three calibers above and then I'd buy as much ammo as I could possibly afford and then I'd store 2/3's of it and use 1/3 of it to practice with. For example although the 5.45 isn't a domestically made caliber right now in the US, with most people it's literally possible to buy 10,000 rds of 5.45 even if you're not wealthy.

Even though it's not a standard caliber 6-7000 rds of 5.45 in your closet and 3-4000 rds downrange is much better IMO than 1500 rds of .308 in your closet and just a few hundred rds of it down range (neither one seems to be on the shelves of local stores, so you'll have to order it anyway and from a rough estimate that amount of ammo for both would equal out to be the same price).

Like I have said earlier, I already own a .223 and I was looking for a .308. I understand the usefulness of owning a .223, and you are right that it would probably be a better bet. But I am going to buy one of these, and I am lucky enough to have a stable income in order to buy multiple cases of rounds (and a good connection to get it.) Some militaries still use this caliber like with the MG-3 and the G3 for Germany, and they just might be the peacekeeping force that is shipped over when the SHTF. (And yes I know the G3 is used under special units but they could still be used.) I am still leaning towards the DSA STG58 unless someone convinces me otherwise.

It runs on the same action that the M-16 does. An army special forces told me that when he killed an Iraqi that was holding an AK, he threw his gun over his shoulder and picked up the AK. Now if I was sniping I would probably use the AR-10, but I want something that if I get caught by surprise and have to dive in a ditch I want to know it is working.

Since an AR-10 is the full sized rifle, with a more powerful cartridge, and a more powerful recoil spring, I suspect that it will not get fouled up by sand as easy as the similar mouse gun does, but I am waiting to hear from returning soldiers, now that (fifty years later) it has finally been fielded by the Washington Government's military.

My plan is to stay out of the sand, which is fairly easy around here as we don't have any in this area.

Cheap should not be the deciding factor for a weapon you expect to use as a "battle rifle". That said, go with the M1A. (Civilian version of the M14). An option is the CETME that is being sold now, but as is the case of the FN-FAL and all other furrin weapons, parts could become critical in a true emergency situation.

Just a note, the M14 was initially procured by the DoD in 1957, and by the time production stopped in 1964, just under a million and a half rifles had been delivered. Many of these weapons are STILL serving today! Think about it...an M14 that may have been manufactured in 1957 could still be rocking 52 years later! And that's 52 years of straight-up military use, not sitting in a gunsafe getting shot on weekends.

I think that settles any discussion about reliability.

The M-14 was in the field for about 10 years, as it was just about totally replaced by about 1967.

It was considered obsolete, and some were even destroyed under order of the Washington Government- not worth the cost of storage space.

Some were brought out of storage for Iraq when it was realized that a semi auto .308 rifle was needed.

AR-10 rifles are now fielded as the semi auto .308 rifle selected for duty in the sand box.

Like I have said earlier, I already own a .223 and I was looking for a .308. I understand the usefulness of owning a .223, and you are right that it would probably be a better bet. But I am going to buy one of these, and I am lucky enough to have a stable income in order to buy multiple cases of rounds (and a good connection to get it.) Some militaries still use this caliber like with the MG-3 and the G3 for Germany, and they just might be the peacekeeping force that is shipped over when the SHTF. (And yes I know the G3 is used under special units but they could still be used.) I am still leaning towards the DSA STG58 unless someone convinces me otherwise.

Well if you're fixed on getting a .308 military style semi-auto rifle and you have a solution to the ammo problem (someone you know has a few cases that they're willing to sell you) then for me it would be between the DSA STG-58 and the M1A (with the nod going to the DSA for less expensive mags, slightly better parts availability and better ergonomics, although the M1A has a better trigger by far).

Plus I've carried both the FAL and the M1A while deer/hog hunting or just running around in the woods and the FAL does carry better for some reason (it just feels like it's lighter to me) which makes a big difference when it's really hot and humid outside and you're walking back to camp.

Well I don't really like the Ar-10 because I hear a lot of problems with reliability. I also heard that FN-FAL's did too. (something about the British having to cut grooves in order for the sand to be able to get out.) Also they said that they rust out but I think that was because of soldiers abusing their weapons (not something that I do) or using corrosive ammo. I wanted to know if any1 here owns an FN-FAL? If you don't have any reliability issues, I think I will get a DSA one or something.

The M-14 was in the field for about 10 years, as it was just about totally replaced by about 1967.

It was considered obsolete, and some were even destroyed under order of the Washington Government- not worth the cost of storage space.

Some were brought out of storage for Iraq when it was realized that a semi auto .308 rifle was needed.

AR-10 rifles are now fielded as the semi auto .308 rifle selected for duty in the sand box.

The M-16 has been actually fielded for more than 50 years now.

The M14 was just the Product-Improved version of the M1...didn't even last the full ten years as a straight-up DoD buy, but stayed on into the early 70's in some units. It has been used as a sniper platform and in various special details since then.

While many were surplused and/or destroyed, far more ended up going to South America to various governments and quasi-governmental groups. Rumor has it there were evene cadres sent there to train with the locals on them.

There are still quite a few of them in the middle-east...I have heard about the AR10 being phased-in, but no one I've talked to hasd used/seen them in use yet. Damn good weapon, tho'.