The beauty of this forum is that someone can pose a rather simple question which is promptly answered in a brief, clear, and concise manner and there ensues a 3 day debate which provides endless entertainment value but totally clouds the issue and confuses the OP.

ted, I don't know of any pros that train primary selection. But I'm quite certain that more great amateurs train on secondary selection, hybrid/ideal selection, than a pro with 20 dogs. Amateurs that train their own dogs have to beat 55 pro trained dogs in a 60 dog open with their one bullet. Wonder why Rorem calls it "Ideal" rather than "non ideal?" That's a serious question by the way. ;)

09-11-2013, 07:00 PM

JusticeDog

Quote:

Originally Posted by MooseGooser

P.S.

Miss Susan,,, Like Ted would say,,,,, read the HRC rule book,, and attend a Handler seminar Just pullin your chain.:)

Well sir, I have read The HRC rule book on numerous occasions. And the issue is silent as to whether a judge can dictate or not dictate the order of picking up bird. However I would like my point out that my post said that I was never required in the Midwest to pick up birds in any certain order. Judges in my area tend to want to keep with real-life hunting situations. When you were out hunting, no one dictates the order of the birds you should pick up. It is up to the individual Hunter. And the hunter should be making those choices by determining what is advantageous to get the most game out of the field and not leaving dead birds behind. ie: hunt with a trained retriever. Certain types of tests are certainly regional in nature. And just for the mrecord I have been to judges seminars for HRC before. I made sure I knew the rules before I ever ran one. I only failed two. One was not my dog, and the other was my dog run by someone else. He wanted his mom To run him!

And I really never follow what Ted would say. ;)

09-12-2013, 06:17 PM

duk4me

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun_Dog2002

Ted, how many dogs have you personally trained, with no pro involvement, how many and what to titles? We all know you buy dogs and pay to have them trained. In a true training discussion the best you can do is repeat whatever pro you were paying at the time. I have no issue with your love for dogs, he sport, knowledge of judging and the rules but until you train a dog to do more than piss on a tree you might want to back down. Having money does not a dog trainer make.

/Paul

WTH he judged the National and you are implying he hasn't trained a dog? I hope the hell you are wrong. Then again what is the saying? If you can't play it coach it if you can't coach it referee it. Oh that's football not dawgs.

09-12-2013, 07:41 PM

john fallon

Quote:

WTH he judged the National

It was the National Am. but no matter... What are the qualifications to judge these events.
From this outsider's perspective, Judging a National is as political as as it gets in the sport .

john

09-12-2013, 08:36 PM

James Seibel

Quote:

Originally Posted by john fallon

A "river wise" dog will run the bank past the long one then enter the river and intercept it, and on the return will pick the other one up and bring them both in at the same time to save a few steps:D

john

I hunted the the Susquehanna River for over 20 years before I quite. I was there ever day from first day to last sometimes hunting both am and pm flights. We mostly hunted from floating blind but also shore blind. In the floating blind my dog Babe could not see the fall of bird. But she was 100% correct on direction of where the bird hit. How she do it ? Watched the gun barrels and also listened to birds it water I would guess. Sometime hand signals were need , but not much.

I watched Babe as well as later Daisy 100% of time select the long bird , passing the short bird rater in goose field or on river.

I seen Babe 100% time chase and select cripples over dead birds. In fact once she was chasing a cripple in a area with other ducks dropped. She came across a dead duck and started back with it. Spite it out is more like it and started mad search for the cripple . Which she got.

I seen Babe 100% of time with many dead geese dead on the ground search and look for cripple . And in fact , If she had a dead goose in mouth would spin and look at the flock flying off. If there was a cripple in the air, she would drop the bird and chase the flock , many times coming back with the cripple that dropped out of the air.

I call that :: Productive Reasoning :: The dog was born with it. Experience made her what she was, literally 100's of wild bird retrieves on the River and fields. !!

Some cripples are best not chased on the river. Let them go and call the dog back. A healthy cripple that is . Then get in the boat and drop way down below and let the dog run the bank back up to where last seen the duck as I would motor up river . Then it was possible to get this healthy cripple when the dog found it. I never seen a dog as good as Babe was at that. Hunting a flooded Island or river in high water is no play ground.

The only thing I miss about the river is The dogs that passed away.

JIM

09-12-2013, 11:48 PM

jeff evans

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun_Dog2002

Ted, how many dogs have you personally trained, with no pro involvement, how many and what to titles? We all know you buy dogs and pay to have them trained. In a true training discussion the best you can do is repeat whatever pro you were paying at the time. I have no issue with your love for dogs, he sport, knowledge of judging and the rules but until you train a dog to do more than piss on a tree you might want to back down. Having money does not a dog trainer make.

/Paul

I guess the saying goes like this..."why beat around the bush.":):). I would also refer ted to post #112....