without getting into whether according to halacha mashiach can be dead bec i dont know. if we take for granted that it is true, why would the lubavitcher rebbe be mashiach?

If you're trying to say that for somebody who's NOT a Lubavitcher chassid it makes no sense to believe the Rebbe is moshiach, I would have to agree with you.but that's a very far cry from saying that it's a"z ch"v.

If you're trying to say that for somebody who's NOT a Lubavitcher chassid it makes no sense to believe the Rebbe is moshiach, I would have to agree with you.but that's a very far cry from saying that it's a"z ch"v.

i didnt call anybody anything im just trying to understand the logic of it. i never heard that a dead person could be mashiach but if its true- why the rebbe, even for a lubavitcher. he was not the greatest person to ever live. (i am not saying he was not a great person)

If you're trying to say that for somebody who's NOT a Lubavitcher chassid it makes no sense to believe the Rebbe is moshiach, I would have to agree with you.but that's a very far cry from saying that it's a"z ch"v.

I understand that this is a very sensitive topic for you but try to take it a little easy. I myself am not lubavitch or chadssidish at all but I happen to have some relatives that are pretty well know lubavitchers. I am coming as unbiased and ignorant and also wouldn't mind hearing responses to some of the questions. I am not at all insinuating that I think anything is wrong and definitely not that it's a"z. If even just talking about this is stepping on peoples toes than I think we should stop

It's ignorance on the general topic of Moshiach, if you understand who Moshiach is and what his purpose is halachically/philosophically then you wouldn't suggest the אבות. For example, see ילקוט שמעוני on the verse "הנה ישכיל עבדי ירום ונשא וגבה מאד".

It's also ignorance on the topic of this thread (which is not what I was referring to), since for the reasons quoted above and for other reasons, the Chabad people believe what they believe and not what you're suggesting.

Regardless, I don't want to get involved in this discussion, since too many people (on both sides of the discussion) get too carried away with figuring out who the Moshiach is (which is not one of the obligations as outlined in the 13 principles of faith).

I understand that this is a very sensitive topic for you but try to take it a little easy. I myself am not lubavitch or chaddish at all but I happen to have some relatives that are pretty well know lubavitchers. I am coming as unbiased and ignorant and also wouldn't mind hearing responses to some of the questions. I am not at all insinuating that I think anything is wrong and definitely not that it's a"z. If even just talking about this is stepping on peoples toes than I think we should stop

I think most chassidim in general believe their rebbe to be the leader of their generation and thus the mashiach for their generation. This is a simple outcome of the rebbe-chosid relationship, and something that scared the misnagdim for centuries.

It's ignorance on the general topic of Moshiach, if you understand who Moshiach is and what his purpose is halachically/philosophically then you wouldn't suggest the אבות. For example, see ילקוט שמעוני on the verse "הנה ישכיל עבדי ירום ונשא וגבה מאד".

It's also ignorance on the topic of this thread (which is not what I was referring to), since for the reasons quoted above and for other reasons, the Chabad people believe what they believe and not what you're suggesting.

Regardless, I don't want to get involved in this discussion, since too many people (on both sides of the discussion) get too carried away with figuring out who the Moshiach is (which is not one of the obligations as outlined in the 13 principles of faith).

i admit to ignorance on the detail of mashiach and who can be mashiach. i am also not trying to figure out who mashiach is bec we will never know until he comes. however why assume it is the rebbe? like i said, u can go back to achronim, rishonim, amoraim, taanaim etc or whoever can qualify to be mashiach but i think everyone will agree there was an earlier/greater (and as jews we believe earlier is generally greater) person(s) who could be mashiach so why not them?

i admit to ignorance on the detail of mashiach and who can be mashiach. i am also not trying to figure out who mashiach is bec we will never know until he comes. however why assume it is the rebbe? like i said, u can go back to achronim, rishonim, amoraim, taanaim etc or whoever can qualify to be mashiach but i think everyone will agree there was an earlier/greater (and as jews we believe earlier is generally greater) person(s) who could be mashiach so why not them?

while the rebbe was alive there was a strong emotional attachment to his chassidim and he sort of led them on so it was somewhat excusable for them to believe, but once he died it is plain silly to believe and now it has become more of a cult but i spoke to many respected chabad chassidim who strongly believe they made a big mistake and are embarassed by the whole moshiach thing

why dont any other chassidim think their rebbe is moshiach and based on age i dont think dan ever had a rebbe chossid relationship so he definintely doesnt know what that is witch is a tragic outcome of this nonesense that they never appointed another rebbe