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Helm's Deep seems to be a fair price and a good deal, so...

I am planning on getting the expansion in the very near future, hopefully by next week. Considering how well Turbine and LOTRO seem to have listened
to their customer base and corrected the missteps made in the "other" preorder, I'd like to say "Thank you" and let them know
I will be putting my faith in them, yet again, in very short order. I just thought it'd be nice to let them know and to remind them
that their efforts were noticed and much appreciated...

I like seeing a positive post every once in a while. Yeah, there are things that I am totally opposed to, like auto filled maps, but I've been trying out other MMOs and I keep coming back here.

Not only that, I cannot imagine playing an MMO without the expansions. Not my style.

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

Yep, can't wait for Helms Deep to come out Big Battles sounds exciting. I hope they still have room for Mounted Combat too.

Got the expansion last night. The armor looks very nice on a dwarf, both the steed and the war steed look very nice as well. That shield is a neat item with all it's bonuses, as well. I added a costume slot so I can have the armor on all my toons and I went ahead and got the "Journeyman" skill for all my mounts, while it was still on sale. Very happy and excitedly looking forward to HD dropping and the next festival coming up. I even broke down recently and created a hobbit hunter to play around with, now that my last two toons are started to get played a lot more and climbing in rank. It's gonna be a great Winter with the new area to explore... I can't wait!

must agree with you and after reading the part about how well they listen to their playerbase I couldn't stop laughing. so funny OP.

why does it bother you that others don't share your pessimistic view of things? is it so hard to accept that there are people that actually have the ability to enjoy the game even though there are flaws? no one is saying there aren't things that could be improved upon or even completely re-worked in some cases. however, even with the flaws that i perceive, i can still enjoy the game. when someone expresses that in a forum thread and tries to show some appreciation for the game we all love (no one would be here playing if they didn't like the game right? right???), why is there such a burning desire on the part of some to yet again, highjack a thread with the negativity?

The HD deal is definitely an improvement over RoR. The price for the highest package (not including the legendary item pack, which contains nothing from the expansion) is better, the instances (Big Battles) are included at launch, and there is TP included. Some of the goodies, like the shield, are also significantly better than previous expansion goodies.

So yeah, I definitely pre-ordered. I'm looking forward to pretty much every aspect of the expansion

I am planning on getting the expansion in the very near future, hopefully by next week. Considering how well Turbine and LOTRO seem to have listened
to their customer base and corrected the missteps made in the "other" preorder, I'd like to say "Thank you" and let them know
I will be putting my faith in them, yet again, in very short order. I just thought it'd be nice to let them know and to remind them
that their efforts were noticed and much appreciated...

If I were you, Id wait untill open beta and try it yourself. wait till the NDA is lifted to see what the beta testers are saying about it. You could be buying something you absolutely hate. Just my advice.

- A new PVP mechanic
- 3 new PVP maps
- A brand new end-game story driven questing zone
- New end-game repeatable missions
- 2 new raids
- A bunch of new armor and weapons, mounts, and cosmetic pets
- Lot of upgrades to Auction Hall functionality
- There's even a new title: "The Eye of Zauron"

FOR FREE

I agree, Helms Deep looks great, and looks to be a great value, but sometimes you need to put things into context. The SWTOR content update is probably 50% of the content of Helms Deep for 0% of the price. That puts value into perspective a bit.

If I were you, Id wait untill open beta and try it yourself. wait till the NDA is lifted to see what the beta testers are saying about it. You could be buying something you absolutely hate. Just my advice.

while that is sound advice i personally don't pay too much attention to what beta testers tend to say. in a mature game like this, most beta testers tend to be seasoned players with probably more than 1 toon at current level cap (no, not all beta testers but i'd be willing to bet a high percentage of them). if that is the case, many players already at end-game tend to give a jaded view of things if it's not the be-all end-all they were expecting. so, i tend to base my decisions on new content on how much i enjoy the game that i play, the way i play it (pretty much a solo adventurer with little to no raiding experience). that said, i truly enjoy that this game lets me play the way i want at a very casual pace. the story line is pretty good (except for the more glaring departures from lore) as well as the misc. quests.

this is just my opinion and while it may not be 100% accurate concerning the percentage of beta testers being 'seasoned' players, i'll still base my decisions on how i like the current game...which i do, flaws and all. i imagine that there are quite a few out there like me. then again maybe not.

- A new PVP mechanic
- 3 new PVP maps
- A brand new end-game story driven questing zone
- New end-game repeatable missions
- 2 new raids
- A bunch of new armor and weapons, mounts, and cosmetic pets
- Lot of upgrades to Auction Hall functionality
- There's even a new title: "The Eye of Zauron"

FOR FREE

I agree, Helms Deep looks great, and looks to be a great value, but sometimes you need to put things into context. The SWTOR content update is probably 50% of the content of Helms Deep for 0% of the price. That puts value into perspective a bit.

TOR did this because their sales have not been all that great, since going to FTP. They don't have near as much content to spend Cartel Coins onto unlock their content because it is a newer game, so giving FTPs the ROtHC expansion, with a free speeder, was really the only means to bring in a bigger base of players. And for a newer game, that is a fantastic marketing strategy (and an infuriating move to those like me who pre order that expansion). But it is not a smart move for LOTRO, IMO.

Not meaning to play Devil's Advocate here, but money keeps these FTP games going and LOTRO is the MMO that gives the most content to FTP folks, because it is an older game. It is the easiest MMO to unlock content for a FTP as well.... Think about this, really.

You're asking the Turbine team to unlock questing content for areas FTPs currently need TP to unlock? People spend money on these expansions and quest packs because they do not want to grind out the TP needed to unlock them. If that suddenly was removed, yeah. We'd all be happy, but all that would be left to unlock with our TP is fluff we don't really need to play optimally, from the LOTRO Store (which is mostly what you get with TOR's CC currency). And the game's OOC revenue also drops because of that. Guess what happens then?

Game shuts down because there is nothing really worth forking out cash to buy content with. We just grind out those 500-600TP with a champ or hunter for the shared storage slots, or cosmetic slot unlocks, and delete and start again for more fluff content. It is an evil to pay money for stuff on a FTP game (I agree), but it is a necessary evil that keeps this game going. If we didn't have VIP and Premium players forking out cash for expansions and extra TP points, this game would die out.

If I were you, Id wait untill open beta and try it yourself. wait till the NDA is lifted to see what the beta testers are saying about it. You could be buying something you absolutely hate. Just my advice.

We are getting the new trait system regardless of whether we like it or not, or pay for it or not. It's the new content that I'm looking for. I love doing quests.

I've been wearing the new armour. For once, Turbine made an armour set I like. Took them 6 years but they did it!

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

We are getting the new trait system regardless of whether we like it or not, or pay for it or not. It's the new content that I'm looking for. I love doing quests.

I've been wearing the new armour. For once, Turbine made an armour set I like. Took them 6 years but they did it!

That's exactly why I'm not buying: if the class restructuring (especially the threat revamp) ends up being something that isn't fun for me, no amount of new content will make it worth my cash, and I'll move on to something that fits my style better. Plus, I don't know if the battles will satisfy my desire for 6-man and 12-man classic battle content, so I'm waiting on the reviews of that. I hope I'll like it all (I really want to) and that I'll buy the expansion and be around forever. And I have to say that horse is sooooooo tempting! But bottom line: everyone has to evaluate their financial situation and what makes the game enjoyable to them. That answer will be different for everyone. My current situation dictates that I be very cautious about spending money on any luxury, so I have to weigh things very carefully.

That's exactly why I'm not buying: if the class restructuring (especially the threat revamp) ends up being something that isn't fun for me, no amount of new content will make it worth my cash, and I'll move on to something that fits my style better. Plus, I don't know if the battles will satisfy my desire for 6-man and 12-man classic battle content, so I'm waiting on the reviews of that. I hope I'll like it all (I really want to) and that I'll buy the expansion and be around forever. And I have to say that horse is sooooooo tempting! But bottom line: everyone has to evaluate their financial situation and what makes the game enjoyable to them. That answer will be different for everyone. My current situation dictates that I be very cautious about spending money on any luxury, so I have to weigh things very carefully.

I agree. If it was an expansion without class revamp, I would prepurchase. I am excited about HD and the new battle system. However, I am concerned about the class revamp and will wait until I have personally tested it before buying new content. Hopefully, i will like it enough to continue on the road to Mordor.

TOR did this because their sales have not been all that great, since going to FTP. They don't have near as much content to spend Cartel Coins onto unlock their content because it is a newer game, so giving FTPs the ROtHC expansion, with a free speeder, was really the only means to bring in a bigger base of players. And for a newer game, that is a fantastic marketing strategy (and an infuriating move to those like me who pre order that expansion). But it is not a smart move for LOTRO, IMO.

Not meaning to play Devil's Advocate here, but money keeps these FTP games going and LOTRO is the MMO that gives the most content to FTP folks, because it is an older game. It is the easiest MMO to unlock content for a FTP as well.... Think about this, really.

You're asking the Turbine team to unlock questing content for areas FTPs currently need TP to unlock? People spend money on these expansions and quest packs because they do not want to grind out the TP needed to unlock them. If that suddenly was removed, yeah. We'd all be happy, but all that would be left to unlock with our TP is fluff we don't really need to play optimally, from the LOTRO Store (which is mostly what you get with TOR's CC currency). And the game's OOC revenue also drops because of that. Guess what happens then?

Game shuts down because there is nothing really worth forking out cash to buy content with. We just grind out those 500-600TP with a champ or hunter for the shared storage slots, or cosmetic slot unlocks, and delete and start again for more fluff content. It is an evil to pay money for stuff on a FTP game (I agree), but it is a necessary evil that keeps this game going. If we didn't have VIP and Premium players forking out cash for expansions and extra TP points, this game would die out.

They are only giving the expansion away to subscribers. F2P and Premium still have to buy it or sub.

why does it bother you that others don't share your pessimistic view of things? is it so hard to accept that there are people that actually have the ability to enjoy the game even though there are flaws? no one is saying there aren't things that could be improved upon or even completely re-worked in some cases. however, even with the flaws that i perceive, i can still enjoy the game. when someone expresses that in a forum thread and tries to show some appreciation for the game we all love (no one would be here playing if they didn't like the game right? right???), why is there such a burning desire on the part of some to yet again, highjack a thread with the negativity?

I thought we were all allowed our own opinions and were allowed to express them equally. It actually seems you are trying to bully someone for not showing the same attitude as you. and you must agree this guy was spot on. They aren't really listening are they? I guess what I'm really asking is how can there be such a wide gap from lovers which we all are to some degree to haters? And i believe the haters love the game more and can't really figure out why some people will fawn over a game with a multitude of problems without admitting it has so many problems. the haters just want a better game and think they have higher standards and on occasion want them met.

I thought we were all allowed our own opinions and were allowed to express them equally. It actually seems you are trying to bully someone for not showing the same attitude as you. and you must agree this guy was spot on. They aren't really listening are they? I guess what I'm really asking is how can there be such a wide gap from lovers which we all are to some degree to haters? And i believe the haters love the game more and can't really figure out why some people will fawn over a game with a multitude of problems without admitting it has so many problems. the haters just want a better game and think they have higher standards and on occasion want them met.

just a thought.

oh we can all express our opinions...just gets tiring when all the negative nellies highjack and take-over what would otherwise be very encouraging and optimistic threads. as i've said before, no one is saying that the game doesn't have problems (at least i don't think i have ), but can't we at times point out some positives without the naysayers taking over the thread? isn't it easy enough to start another thread to complain (like there aren't already enough)? is it too much to ask to allow those who like and enjoy the game to express that without other people jumping in and pointing out the game breaking bugs or doomsday scenario's (in their opinion)? *sigh*

sorry, even with all the bugs (which to me are relatively minor but i'm not into pvp or anything, just a casual solo adventurer here), i enjoy the game. i'll probably play it as long as the servers are active. and even when the servers eventually go dark i'm not going to cry about it. i'll be grateful for the amount of enjoyment it gave me. after all....it is only a game.

and i'm sorry if anyone interpreted my posts as 'bullying'. i'm just usually a very direct person and can come across a bit strong at times. sorry if anyone was offended.

... but can't we at times point out some positives without the naysayers taking over the thread? isn't it easy enough to start another thread to complain (like there aren't already enough)? is it too much to ask to allow those who like and enjoy the game to express that without other people jumping in and pointing out the game breaking bugs or doomsday scenario's (in their opinion)? *sigh*

But it's okay to post in negative threads your positive opinions? Like you did? Double standards? Just asking.

However, it's unasked for extra work put into things nobody has poked forums about.

No amount of reading player suggestions will put Class Revamp or Skills Revamp anywhere near the top of the pile. Rather, people have asked for even more raid and group content and the final word on that is that there will never again be anything such as a classic raid. That's us told, isn't it?
In TPS/Lean, extra work where it's not asked for is defined as Muda/Waste and is the number one cost drive parameter that can so easily kill a project. If the customer demands that the surface of a table should be made perfectly level, no amount of ornamentation on the legs is going to cover up the fact that the product is in fact not meeting customer expectations. It will instead make the product more expensive when the manufacturer realizes that there must be work put into making the top of the table absolutely level in order to get decent sales figures.

That said, I'm sure people will simply stop paying and play for free. See where that takes us. I'm not preordering anything that isn't at least a big list of contents. I do not pay for things unseen. WB can afford the production cost and meet customer demand or they can pay for production of random unasked for stuff, none of that requires my kickstarter money.

EDIT I bought ONE item unseen here, Journeyman Riding trait for my account, it looked as if it was spot on specified and I topped up TP with cash to get it - and it was broken! It is still broken after MONTHS of /bugging. There is no quality control, there is no meeting customer demand, there is nothing fun except making alts. New skins for armor has so much clipping that it can't be used other than with itself and some of it don't even match the game character models. The preorder frills can't even be dyed. It's just foul!
I'm staying out of habit and due to spending far too much time and money. I'm angry with myself for staying and with turbine for turning what was nice to mush and I reserve the right to keep whining while at the same time I will demand the right to keep saying that it's the best PVE game content available despite every attempt to make it a bland, noname pile of generic poop.

However, it's unasked for extra work put into things nobody has poked forums about.

No amount of reading player suggestions will put Class Revamp or Skills Revamp anywhere near the top of the pile. Rather, people have asked for even more raid and group content and the final word on that is that there will never again be anything such as a classic raid. That's us told, isn't it?
In TPS/Lean, extra work where it's not asked for is defined as Muda/Waste and is the number one cost drive parameter that can so easily kill a project. If the customer demands that the surface of a table should be made perfectly level, no amount of ornamentation on the legs is going to cover up the fact that the product is in fact not meeting customer expectations. It will instead make the product more expensive when the manufacturer realizes that there must be work put into making the top of the table absolutely level in order to get decent sales figures.

That said, I'm sure people will simply stop paying and play for free. See where that takes us. I'm not preordering anything that isn't at least a big list of contents. I do not pay for things unseen. WB can afford the production cost and meet customer demand or they can pay for production of random unasked for stuff, none of that requires my kickstarter money.

EDIT I bought ONE item unseen here, Journeyman Riding trait for my account, it looked as if it was spot on specified and I topped up TP with cash to get it - and it was broken! It is still broken after MONTHS of /bugging. There is no quality control, there is no meeting customer demand, there is nothing fun except making alts. New skins for armor has so much clipping that it can't be used other than with itself and some of it don't even match the game character models. The preorder frills can't even be dyed. It's just foul!
I'm staying out of habit and due to spending far too much time and money. I'm angry with myself for staying and with turbine for turning what was nice to mush and I reserve the right to keep whining while at the same time I will demand the right to keep saying that it's the best PVE game content available despite every attempt to make it a bland, noname pile of generic poop.

I read this post while a visual of a preacher on the pulpit preaching about hell and damnation, fire and brimstone. then with the final sentence I saw a clown in the big top circus taking a dukie in the three ring circus. this visual will never go away. Thanks for the giggles. No offense intended, I laughed for a good ten minutes. and agree most heartily.

Mean what you say and say what you mean! If you don't there are always consequences!

I read this post while a visual of a preacher on the pulpit preaching about hell and damnation, fire and brimstone. then with the final sentence I saw a clown in the big top circus taking a dukie in the three ring circus. this visual will never go away. Thanks for the giggles. No offense intended, I laughed for a good ten minutes. and agree most heartily.

A jester's cap is proper prop =( Possibly with an amusing parp.

New Bree is fun and the makeover was long overdue but it was still effort unasked for and poorly executed: it is crammed with separate tiny skins on every object where there used to be rather a few crunched into one. There is no reason whatsoever for people to lag as they go into Bree if looking at the functionality needed. Wasted effort, extra work, not taken into the end user context, the user story lost. Tiny random changes unasked for: some change in the way objects behave makes them suddenly disappear - stairs, buildings, trees and a few weeks for a fix. Not tested, not bugfixed, not quality delivery.

I whine and defend and hope and get let down, it's like living with a drug addict. Perhaps the addict is me.

Store is offline for hours and TP lost can't be refunded. VIP and lifetime TP seems to never happen without contacting support...where does it stop.