B-Ref sent a tweet out tonight that really puts into perspective just how good this offense really is to this point. Through 7/23, 4 Red Sox hold spots in the top 5 in B-Ref WAR among position players. Dustin Pedroia is #2 with a 5.3, Ellsbury and Gonzalez are tied for 3rd with 4.8, and Youkilis is tied for 5th(with Beltre) with 3.9. All 4 players are on pace to have 6.4 WAR(keep in mind they use 6.0 as MVP level) or higher. Only one team in MLB history has had 4 players with 6.0 or higher and that was the 1902 Pirates. There are only 9 teams in history that even had 4 players above 5.5 WAR(2001 Mariners, 1999 Indians, 1998 Yankees, 1993 Blue Jays, 1982 Brewers, 1968 Tigers, 1939 Yankees, 1927 Yankees, and the '02 Pirates). The average win % of these teams is .663 and 5 won the World Series.

Looking at some other stats among AL players, it boggles my mind just how good this lineup is.

OBP--Red Sox players are 3rd, 4th, and 5thBA--2 Red Sox in top 10SLG--2 Red Sox in top 5OPS--5 Red Sox in top 11Hits--3 Red Sox in top 10Total Bases--2 Red Sox in top 5OPS+--3 Red Sox in top 10wRC--5 Red Sox in top 11wRAA--4 Red Sox in top 10wRC+--4 Red Sox in top 10wOBA--5 Red Sox in the top 10WPA--4 Red Sox in top 10

Looking position-by-position, here is how the starters rank by OPS in the AL. We'll ignore Reddick because of his lack of ABs but we all know he's on fire right now. 5 of the 8 are ranked in the top 2 in their position and all but Crawford are in the top 10.

Salty--6thGonzalez--2ndPedroia--1stScutaro--8thYoukilis--1stCrawford--29thEllsbury--2ndReddick--incomplete because of so few ABs, but he boasts a 1.030 OPS right now.Ortiz--1st

With Crawford starting to swing the bat well since returning from the DL, it's scary to think the lineup could get even better.

I like wRC+, which is a park- and league-adjusted linear weights (based on Tango's wOBA) view of team offense. I took all the Fangraphs data for every team from 1969 on and put them in a spreadsheet. Here are the top 20 offenses sorted by wRC+

20 Best Offenses Since 1969 (ranked by wRC+)

Team

Year

wRC+

Reds

1976

123

Red Sox

2011

122

Brewers

1982

121

Yankees

2007

120

Red Sox

2003

120

Mariners

1997

119

Yankees

2009

118

Mariners

2001

117

Yankees

1998

117

Indians

1995

117

Yankees

1994

117

Brewers

1978

117

Yankees

1977

117

Yankees

2011

116

Yankees

2005

116

Yankees

2002

116

Yankees

2006

115

Yankees

2003

115

Red Sox

1988

115

Yankees

1986

115

Tigers

1984

115

Brewers

1979

115

The 2011 Red Sox are so far just behind the Big Red Machine, which is probably the best offense (and best team not including pitching) in the history of baseball. They're ahead of the under-rated 1982 Brewers (Harvey's Wallbangers) as well as teams like the Lumber Company (Pirates of the 1970s) and the last 50 years or so of Bronx Bombers (the recent versions of which really have been pretty wonderful offenses). So far, the 2011 Red Sox are right there among the greatest offenses of the last 42 years. Those 1976 Reds though -- what a team.

For fun, here are the bottom 20, again ranked by wRC+:

20 Worst Offenses Since 1969 (ranked by wRC+)

Team

Year

wRC+

Blue Jays

1981

70

Diamondbacks

2004

73

Padres

1969

74

Angels

1992

75

Cubs

1981

75

Expos

1976

75

Rangers

1972

75

Twins

1981

76

Braves

1975

76

Phillies

1970

76

Angels

1969

76

Mariners

2011

77

Cubs

1980

77

Expos

1972

77

Mariners

2010

78

Expos

2004

78

Dodgers

2003

78

Tigers

2003

78

Expos

2001

78

Twins

1999

78

Marlins

1993

78

Braves

1989

78

Braves

1988

78

Cardinals

1986

78

Mariners

1980

78

Blue Jays

1979

78

Athletics

1979

78

Indians

1972

78

Padres

1972

78

Indians

1971

78

The Mariners of the last two years have had 2 of the 20 worst offenses in the last 42 years, which is a set of 1168 teams. Ouch. That can't be much fun to watch. Z's run prevention plan is going to have to be historically great to match that.

The 2011 Red Sox are so far just behind the Big Red Machine, which is probably the best offense (and best team not including pitching) in the history of baseball. They're ahead of the under-rated 1982 Brewers (Harvey's Wallbangers) as well as teams like the Lumber Company (Pirates of the 1970s) and the last 50 years or so of Bronx Bombers (the recent versions of which really have been pretty wonderful offenses). So far, the 2011 Red Sox are right there among the greatest offenses of the last 42 years. Those 1976 Reds though -- what a team.

I was wondering about that as I was writing it. I haven't seen any sign of a nickname emerge yet. I don't really care much, as long as it's something that's not too lame and arises more or less organically. Of course, the Mariners of 97 and 01 never had a nickname either (steroid monkeys? mainlinin' Mariners? Juice Brigade? Disappointing Dozen?).

Look at these Yankee teams though -- 11 of the top 20, and 7 in the last 10 years.

Lets not go overboard here. While this team certainly has the makings of an historically great offense thus far, there is still more than a third of the season left to play. The fact that this thread even exists at this point probably means we are in for a freak collision of unprecedented devastation involving Ellsbury, Pedroia, and Youkilis on a flare into shallow center field tonight. I don't know how that could possibly happen either, but that's why you never see these things coming.

Lets not go overboard here. While this team certainly has the makings of an historically great offense thus far, there is still more than a third of the season left to play. The fact that this thread even exists at this point probably means we are in for a freak collision of unprecedented devastation involving Ellsbury, Pedroia, and Youkilis on a flare into shallow center field tonight. I don't know how that could possibly happen either, but that's why you never see these things coming.

That's true. This is why I used the phrase "so far" twice in my first post. And of course, we can always dream that Crawford is better in the second half than he was in the first.

Good stuff WTE. I was looking a same numbers a few days ago, and I said this:

smastroyin, on 21 July 2011 - 09:10 AM, said:Put Crawford at his normal levels and this offense is in its own league.

Actually it already is, this team has the highest wRC+ (which is adjusted) of any team since 1995 at 121. 1995 was just the year I got bored and stopped, the real year is probably much longer ago. The 2003 Red Sox and 2007 Yankees were closest at 120 wRC+.

A few months ago I asked whether we might see a team with 3-5 posting a .900 OPS, and compared that potential 3-5 to some of the best 3-4-5's in Red Sox history. Now we're talking about our 1-5 all being at .900 OPS or higher? The fact that it's even remotely possible is preposterous.

A few months ago I asked whether we might see a team with 3-5 posting a .900 OPS, and compared that potential 3-5 to some of the best 3-4-5's in Red Sox history. Now we're talking about our 1-5 all being at .900 OPS or higher? The fact that it's even remotely possible is preposterous.

It's approaching video game territory and not just in the sheer volume of runs generated but in the timeliness of the responses. Take tonight. We start off down 3-0 and within ten pitches we've got two runs. It's just sick and someone should take a look at innings after we allow multiple runs to see how frequently we come back with a crooked number of our own.

I decided a week or so ago that if I didn't love this team I would absolutely hate this team and everyone we steamroll.

A few months ago I asked whether we might see a team with 3-5 posting a .900 OPS, and compared that potential 3-5 to some of the best 3-4-5's in Red Sox history. Now we're talking about our 1-5 all being at .900 OPS or higher? The fact that it's even remotely possible is preposterous.

If they were wearing pinstripes, would we be having this conversation in Radomski's Lounge?

As jaw dropping as the production is now, not surprisingly the surge has corresponded with slippery hot summer air and a fair chunk of it against inferior pitching. If they can produce half as well in the heavier, colder Fall air against top pitching, that will really be something.

A lineup with five or six guys in a row no one can keep down would still be preferable to a lineup of more evenly distributed talent when the run environment becomes more scarce, no?

The vast difference is all those other teams' numbers are full season numbers, whereas this Red Sox team numbers are only through late July. It's not even August yet, so it's pretty pointless to compare a-little-over-half-season numbers from a team that's got a half-dozen red-hot hitters peaking right now to full-season numbers from teams of the past.

By the way, the answer to the thread title question is Yes-- so far. With a lot of baseball still to be played.

Hopefully this thread won't end up in the Everything Lasts Forever Premature Internet Exuberance Hall of Fame. Like the annual "The Yankees Really Stink This Year, I Can Tell After a Month" threads always do, every year.

Here's a question: might this be the best performance by 1 through 5 hitters in the history of MLB?

There's a thread in the MLB section discussing this very question. The preliminary look done by the group of posters who contributed had the Sox near the top of the list. But the point about this season being long from done is a good one. One long cold streak from one of those players and the question is no longer valid.

Even if they don't end up maintaining this level of production (and they very well may not), this has still be an absolute treat to watch.

The vast difference is all those other teams' numbers are full season numbers, whereas this Red Sox team numbers are only through late July. It's not even August yet, so it's pretty pointless to compare a-little-over-half-season numbers from a team that's got a half-dozen red-hot hitters peaking right now to full-season numbers from teams of the past.

By the way, the answer to the thread title question is Yes-- so far. With a lot of baseball still to be played.

Hopefully this thread won't end up in the Everything Lasts Forever Premature Internet Exuberance Hall of Fame. Like the annual "The Yankees Really Stink This Year, I Can Tell After a Month" threads always do, every year.

Pedroia, Gonzalez, and Youkilis are all having reasonable offensive seasons. There is no reason to think they can't sustain their offense.

Ortiz is a huge wildcard but definitely has huge offensive talent.

RF has been awful. Reddick will be better than Drew was but significantly worse than he has been. Overall, that will create improved performance from the position.

Crawford was terrible. Even with Reddick boosting LF offense, LF has been terrible and we should expect Crawford to perform much better the rest of the way.

SS is what it is. Scutaro has been himself. Lowrie, if he comes back, will be a bit better than Scutaro. Overall, SS is very stable and we shouldn't expect a real change.

Catcher is more or less like SS with a bit more volatility. Salty has performed at a level reasonably similar to expectations offensively. Some believe he is better than that still. I would expect him to maintain the status quo. Varitek is similarly performing at a level that is reasonable but does have collapse potential.

Overall, only Ellsbury and Ortiz have performed at significantly better than expected levels and that is balanced out by how bad the corner outfield has been. The season-to-date offensive level is not the result of hot streaks. Now, it could very easily be derailed by injuries. But, if we assume health, this team is actually capable of being even better than it's been so far despite the historic rate of production.

Gilliam and Reese were your prototypical table setters (hate that term but it kind of works). Ellsbury and Pedroia are hitting like full on production guys. I keep thinking about what would it be like with one of them hitting third, but of course I get stopped by Gonzalez, and who would hit leadoff? And of course, why break up a winning combination, if it ain't broke don't fix it, and who in the world would bat leadoff?

If you wanted to move Ellsbury down in the order to take advantage of his new-found power(which I wouldn't do), here's the only option and it doesn't look like it will ever come to fruition. If Crawford had the patience to even put up a .365-.370 OBP, you could have a lineup of Crawford-Pedroia-Gonzalez-Youkilis-Ortiz-Ellsbury-Reddick-Salty-Scutaro.

Gilliam and Reese were your prototypical table setters (hate that term but it kind of works). Ellsbury and Pedroia are hitting like full on production guys. I keep thinking about what would it be like with one of them hitting third, but of course I get stopped by Gonzalez, and who would hit leadoff? And of course, why break up a winning combination, if it ain't broke don't fix it, and who in the world would bat leadoff?

Wait till you see how many teams had five great hitters and put an average guy in the 2 hole. The '27 Yankees not only had Mark Koening hit 2nd, when he got hurt and missed 40 games, they hit their utility infielder Ray Morehart there while keeping Tony Lazzeri and his .309 / .382 / .482 in the 6 hole. Koenig and Morehart combined for 20 sacrifices -- with Ruth (214 wRC+) and Gehrig (210) due up next.

Gilliam and Reese were your prototypical table setters (hate that term but it kind of works). Ellsbury and Pedroia are hitting like full on production guys. I keep thinking about what would it be like with one of them hitting third, but of course I get stopped by Gonzalez, and who would hit leadoff? And of course, why break up a winning combination, if it ain't broke don't fix it, and who in the world would bat leadoff?

Wait till you see how many teams had five great hitters and put an average guy in the 2 hole. The '27 Yankees not only had Mark Koening hit 2nd, when he got hurt and missed 40 games, they hit their utility infielder Ray Morehart (also an 83 wRC+) there while keeping Tony Lazzeri and his .309 / .382 / .482 (125 wRC+) in the 6 hole. Koenig and Morehart combined for 20 sacrifices -- with Ruth (214) and Gehrig (210) due up next.