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For a while now, there has been a push to redefine what freedom of religion means. Freedom of religion comes from the following:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Here’s what people seem to think it says:

Congress shall not let anybody holding public office exercise their religion. Anybody who works for the government cannot exercise their religion during work hours. All exercise of religion outside of strictly religious organizations is prohibited. Government money cannot go to any religious organization, even if it provides a service better or cheaper than the government could provide.

What I’m saying is that the violation of the Constitution wasn’t when we had the Ten Commandments at the court house. It was when we removed them.

Now we have the issue of the prayer before starting a public meeting. Everybody on the committee agrees with it, but people who aren’t involved are up in arms about it because it brings religion into government. You know what? Those are people in the government. And the law doesn’t say they need to stop praying. The law says that you, concerned citizen, cannot stop them from praying. That’s unconstitutional for you to do.

There’s a bunch of backwards rules that are coming out of the justice system because they can’t even read a document that spells it out clearly. The very law of our nation that is supposed to keep the government from being able to stop us from praying, celebrating, and exercising our religion has been misinterpreted to mean that they MUST stop us.

I would urge any Christian specifically, because most of this seems to apply only to us, to fight back in two ways. One, don’t let them trample on your rights. Two, don’t trample on the rights of other religious groups. If a Muslim wants to pray, too, that’s HIS right and you shouldn’t stop him, either. Show the world that it is religious persecution against the Christians instead of just a societal struggle to eliminate all religion from public life. If it’s not, we’re going to end up in the same place as the other religions. But what it feels like, is that we’re going to end up with a country that doesn’t allow Christianity, but allows every other religion. I hope I’m wrong.

Same goes for atheists, who are becoming as militant as "believers"...

Though I would not object to "Christmas" being declared an economic holiday for the good of the country. eg: Feel free to spend taxes on blinking lights, xmas trees and Santa if it gets people spending money... but keep the angels and Jesus out of it...

Same goes for atheists, who are becoming as militant as "believers"...

Though I would not object to "Christmas" being declared an economic holiday for the good of the country. eg: Feel free to spend taxes on blinking lights, xmas trees and Santa if it gets people spending money... but keep the angels and Jesus out of it...

Sorry, to "keep your zany beliefs in your own home" is the same as stating anyone with beliefs must undergo house arrest for no reason.

We have freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. No court has ever ruled otherwise.

There is definitely a war on religious freedom....that's is....as long as the religion is Christianity and the last 4 years of Obama's regime have witnessed Obama's radical control over us "the people" in direct violation of the Constitution.

The constitution guarantees you nothing special, why should it (?) ... it is all in your mind. What the Constitution does guarantee is the separation of church and state a fact you always seem to forget. The first amendment to the constitution grants you this much …

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

If you honestly believe this gives you some “RIGHT” to do and say whatever you want, then you are just being religiously foolish as usual.

The constitution guarantees you nothing special, why should it (?) ... it is all in your mind. What the Constitution does guarantee is the separation of church and state a fact you always seem to forget. The first amendment to the constitution grants you this much …

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

If you honestly believe this gives you some “RIGHT” to do and say whatever you want, then you are just being religiously foolish as usual.

Your hatred of my religion still doesn't give the government the right to prohibit the free exercise of my religion.

Same goes for atheists, who are becoming as militant as "believers"...

Though I would not object to "Christmas" being declared an economic holiday for the good of the country. eg: Feel free to spend taxes on blinking lights, xmas trees and Santa if it gets people spending money... but keep the angels and Jesus out of it...

My, my.....Interesting that you would limit the scope and range of practicing religion in our own home ....

while Obama's war on Christian religious freedom tries to confine religious practice to within the walls of our churches.

Hmmm....try that with Muslims! They have been known to stop traffic in New York City for their required prayer ritual!

Are you actually trying to tell me that you religious folk deserve some special consideration because your thousands of years old un-authored crusty book says so??? But as usual you are only interested in Christians receiving these considerations. I am afraid there are other religions that would love a piece of that corrupt pie. Unlike you, I feel all religions should be given the same ‘consideration’ and that would be none at all.

You either believe in science as a proven fact of life or you don’t. You cannot pick and choose like you do the bible. They are all too intermingled and cross-supportive for that, so unlike your silly book. If you want to continue believing in completely improvable fairy tales that is no skin off my nose for sure. But hate no that is best suited to the peaceful religious folk who would acquire the world through mind control and terror. Me, why it is live and let live. But feel free to keep banging your head against a pillar of ignorance and the world will run away from you even more than it has. The only thing I know of that will regress the sciences … are the religious nuts that seem to think a first century lifestyle is the in thing, go figure ... and that will never happen.

Quoting Jythier, reply 7Reply #7 JythierAre you actually trying to tell me that you religious folk deserve some special consideration because your thousands of years old un-authored crusty book says so???

I believe that the Constitution guarantees this freedom to everyone, not just Christians, which I said in the original post. I believe we're not seeing this 'normal' treatment, even though this treatment is guaranteed by the Constitution.

The only thing Christians want is to die and be whisked to heaven ... even though it is humanly impossible to be ‘good enough’ to get in. All Adam did was take a bite from some fruit and he was shit upon for the rest of his rather long life. My guess is that you and every other Christian have done much worse with the full knowledge of your indiscretions, something Adam was not even privy to. A pipe dream if ever there was one but you have a right to believe whatever folly you wish. You would be better served if you spent less time telling me (and others) what I (they) think or believe and more time espousing your views on the subject (whatever that is). Doesn't matter how much you try to shrug your hatred off on me it won't fly, but if it makes you feel better ... then by all means continue. I don’t hate you or any Christian (although Lula came close). I feel sorry for you, and your misguided and fictitious world view, but there is nothing I can do about that either.

What’s wrong with Wikipedia anyway??? Full of lies and whatnot huh … how about a few examples or is this just another religious talking point? Proof will be necessary here even though you think your ‘opinion’ is enough as in all matters you address.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."[/quote]

[quote who="Jythier" reply="10" id="3248979"]I believe that the Constitution guarantees this freedom to everyone, not just Christians, which I said in the original post.

That's it. The First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution guarantees every one free exercise of religion.

And history demonstrates the First Amendment became a vehicle to promote pluralism of religions. Even the early courts acknowledged that America was pluralistic of other religions other than Christianity.

The First Amendment's prohibition of "an establishment of religion" was designed to restrict neither religious beliefs nor religious activities, but only the federal establishment of a national religion. After that,the issue of religion was left to the States.

What’s wrong with Wikipedia anyway??? Full of lies and whatnot huh … how about a few examples or is this just another religious talking point? Proof will be necessary here even though you think your ‘opinion’ is enough as in all matters you address.

Your hatred of my religion still doesn't give the government the right to prohibit the free exercise of my religion

And what pray tell has the USG done to prohibit the free practice of your cult? NAME ONE! You seem to feel that because you vaguely belong to main stream Christianity, you (they) should receive preferential treatment ... WHY??? I and others have told you repeatedly that we (free thinkers) consider ALL religions foolish to the point of idiocy. But as usual, you and your brethren feel compelled to make this ridiculous argument anyway, that it is just the poor misunderstood Christians that are being denied their "RIGHTS", nothing but pure conceit. You are the ones trying to make the world conform to your archaic hearsay not the other way around. You don't even know who wrote the first four books in your fiction or when they were written, proof my arse. You pretend to believe a little science yet you adhere to the doctrine of the RCC (NT) which all knows to be one of the most corrupt organizations the world has experienced … yet you still ‘believe’???

Just a foolish comment you made elsewhere, no big deal. You either believe in the sciences or you don’t because there is no wiggle-room for fence walkers like yourself. Adherent Christians are virtually clueless about the real world and its mechanisms preferring to memorize their bibles and only read the foolish views of others of like mind. If you are a HS grad, then you at least had the capacity to reason (unless you went to a religious school) and therefore have no excuse for taking these people at their word. Are you even capable of doing your own investigating (?), because people like Lula are not?

PS - Whine, whimper and more whining … about all Christians seem capable of today. It must be difficult to argue a case without one verifiable FACT in your arsenal.

The problem with your free thinking is that it leaves being alive as idiocy. Why live with no purpose? Even better, why live with any moral compass with no higher accountability for your actions?

So, purposeless, no better than animals in their minds, with no moral compass, you will live and do 'whatever you want' and feel opressed by the laws that say you can't do things. Laws that say a man marries a woman, laws that say abortion is infanticide, laws that say pornography is illegal, laws that allow certain people to have more than you.

You will march and say that it's wrong to enforce a moral code upon you, but your own march that it's wrong will show that you believe in a moral code as well. Except that your moral code isn't defined, ancient, relevant, or helpful to society or individuals. It's the next oldest code - that men should do what feels right. And that will only lead to our destruction as a society, and your destruction as individuals.

As far as science, I believe in science, but I don't believe in historical science. There are plenty of topics where I've talked about this at length already. You post videos that mock Christianity, I post links to answers in genesis, neither of us gives the other's source the time of day, etc. So we don't need to bring that here.

Are Christians being denied their rights in the US? Sometimes, yes. Prayer has been under attack for a long time. The funny part about prayer is that it's so powerful that it gets the main attacks. Yet the bigger attack is actually on whether it has any power at all. You would say it has no power - then why are you against us praying fruitlessly before a meeting? Christians are often being told it has no power, but when you go back to the Bible, it says the opposite - pray. Why? Because it's powerful and meaningful and it's a major agent of change in the believer and in the world - yet you would say it's useless, as you try to stop people from praying because the enemy knows it is powerful and sadly controls you.

So you will continue to do self-destructive things, make illogical arguments, and try to show me how we must have come from a lower species and not a loving God. I'll continue to do the same, as well, but with a slow process of becoming more like Christ. And in the end, you may come to your senses and want to go to heaven, or maybe you won't. But I'm going. And it's going to be awesome.