When does life begin?

I am sure this hot topic has been discussed many times. I recently had a discussion on this with an acquaintance, and she simply stated that life begins at conception like it was a well known fact, not open for debate. I started to question her about why she believes that, hoping for some actual reason, and she just got angry. I find this to be typical when you discuss this type of thing with people, if they can't give you a good logical argument for their position on something, they just get angry with you for calling them on it. My thinking is if you have a position on any topic then you should be able to defend your position, not simply state that anyone else who disagrees is just an idiot as though that supports your position. So anyway, this is what I thought on the topic:

The definition of life: The condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional.

if you subscribe to "life begins at conception" can you please explain why? What is it about conception that suddenly makes it a life? Why does it not begin BEFORE conception? Are sperm not alive? Are ova not alive? If you believe sperm and ova are alive, then why do we not feel so strongly about protecting them as we do about protecting the life of an embryo, of a fetus, or of an infant? Is ejaculation outside of intercourse not murder too (ie. masturbation, use of condoms, spermicides, etc)? Is birth control which prevents ovulation, hinders implantation, not murder too? Is it not denying either sperm or ovum to meet and develop into the potential human they could be, thus abandoning them to their certain inevitable deaths? Is this acceptable? If it is, then how is it not acceptable to do the same thing to a fetus that can't survive outside the womb on its own thus preventing it from growing into the potential human it could someday become is not?

If you believe sperm and ova are not alive, or that they are alive, but that form of life is inferior to a fetus, again, please explain why?

Are sperm/ova inferior to an embryo?
Is an embryo inferior to a fetus?
Is a fetus inferior to an infant?

If the answer to any of these questions is no, please state why and provide a thoughtful reason. I answered all questions yes because although I consider each of them to be alive and has the potential to develop into the next stage, there is no entitlement for them to do so. If you answered all of these questions with yes, and we consider killing inferior forms of life to be less immoral than superior forms, then logically it stands to reason that:

killing sperm/ova is less immoral than killing an embryo.
killing an embryo is less immoral than killing a fetus.
killing a fetus is less immoral than killing an infant.

And if this is true, then it also stands to reason that abortion is not the same as murder, which incidentally is defined as: The unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another. Take note of the words "unlawful" and "human being" because abortion is neither unlawful, and a human being is defined as: A man, woman, or child (not fetus or embryo) of the species Homo sapiens.

I am failing to understand how abortion is looked upon by many of the pro-lifers as though it is the same as murder when a fetus is developmentally inferior to a human being. True it has the "potential" to become a living human being capable of surviving on it's own, but so does an embryo, and so does a sperm or ovum if given the right conditions for development.

If you want to take it even further, I would ask the pro-lifers: if you believe ALL life has equal value, what do you eat? How would you sustain yourself without food? Whether you eat meat or plants, they are both forms of life, which you couldn't exist without consuming, and by consuming them you deny them continued life. Clearly some forms of life are more worthy of preserving than others, in other words, we don't consider all life equal in value. If all life is not equal, then what makes one form of life superior over another? What makes a fetus as worthy of life as a human being when we have just shown it is inferior?

We all have our own moral compass that tells us what is right and wrong, I would ask that people look at their own and decide for themselves what they believe to be right and wrong. But take a moment and consider your reasons for why you believe whatever you do. If you have never asked yourself "why" before, you should. And "because that's what I was taught" isn't a sound reason. If you have a logical, well thought reason for why you consider abortion to be murder, I would really love to hear it. I have talked with people for many years about abortion on both sides of the fence, and nobody on the pro-life side has ever given me a real solid logical argument to support their stance.

I would love to hear some good arguments from both sides.

I am sure this hot topic has been discussed many times. I recently had a discussion on this with an acquaintance, and she simply stated that life begins at conception like it was a well known fact, not open for debate. I started to question her about why she believes that, hoping for some actual reason, and she just got angry. I find this to be typical when you discuss this type of thing with people, if they can't give you a good logical argument for their position on something, they just get angry with you for calling them on it. My thinking is if you have a position on any topic then you should be able to defend your position, not simply state that anyone else who disagrees is just an idiot as though that supports your position. So anyway, this is what I thought on the topic:

The definition of life: The condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional.

if you subscribe to "life begins at conception" can you please explain why? What is it about conception that suddenly makes it a life? Why does it not begin BEFORE conception? Are sperm not alive? Are ova not alive? If you believe sperm and ova are alive, then why do we not feel so strongly about protecting them as we do about protecting the life of an embryo, of a fetus, or of an infant? Is ejaculation outside of intercourse not murder too (ie. masturbation, use of condoms, spermicides, etc)? Is birth control which prevents ovulation, hinders implantation, not murder too? Is it not denying either sperm or ovum to meet and develop into the potential human they could be, thus abandoning them to their certain inevitable deaths? Is this acceptable? If it is, then how is it not acceptable to do the same thing to a fetus that can't survive outside the womb on its own thus preventing it from growing into the potential human it could someday become is not?

If you believe sperm and ova are not alive, or that they are alive, but that form of life is inferior to a fetus, again, please explain why?

Are sperm/ova inferior to an embryo?
Is an embryo inferior to a fetus?
Is a fetus inferior to an infant?

If the answer to any of these questions is no, please state why and provide a thoughtful reason. I answered all questions yes because although I consider each of them to be alive and has the potential to develop into the next stage, there is no entitlement for them to do so. If you answered all of these questions with yes, and we consider killing inferior forms of life to be less immoral than superior forms, then logically it stands to reason that:

killing sperm/ova is less immoral than killing an embryo.
killing an embryo is less immoral than killing a fetus.
killing a fetus is less immoral than killing an infant.

And if this is true, then it also stands to reason that abortion is not the same as murder, which incidentally is defined as: The unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another. Take note of the words "unlawful" and "human being" because abortion is neither unlawful, and a human being is defined as: A man, woman, or child (not fetus or embryo) of the species Homo sapiens.

I am failing to understand how abortion is looked upon by many of the pro-lifers as though it is the same as murder when a fetus is developmentally inferior to a human being. True it has the "potential" to become a living human being capable of surviving on it's own, but so does an embryo, and so does a sperm or ovum if given the right conditions for development.

If you want to take it even further, I would ask the pro-lifers: if you believe ALL life has equal value, what do you eat? How would you sustain yourself without food? Whether you eat meat or plants, they are both forms of life, which you couldn't exist without consuming, and by consuming them you deny them continued life. Clearly some forms of life are more worthy of preserving than others, in other words, we don't consider all life equal in value. If all life is not equal, then what makes one form of life superior over another? What makes a fetus as worthy of life as a human being when we have just shown it is inferior?

We all have our own moral compass that tells us what is right and wrong, I would ask that people look at their own and decide for themselves what they believe to be right and wrong. But take a moment and consider your reasons for why you believe whatever you do. If you have never asked yourself "why" before, you should. And "because that's what I was taught" isn't a sound reason. If you have a logical, well thought reason for why you consider abortion to be murder, I would really love to hear it. I have talked with people for many years about abortion on both sides of the fence, and nobody on the pro-life side has ever given me a real solid logical argument to support their stance.

"The definition of life: The condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional." A fetus fits into this definition. A sperm doesnt develop into a fetus without an egg. it does not have the potential for growth. The question is, does that life have value, and does that life have a right to continue. That varies according to each individual.

"The definition of life: The condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional." A fetus fits into this definition. A sperm doesnt develop into a fetus without an egg. it does not have the potential for growth. The question is, does that life have value, and does that life have a right to continue. That varies according to each individual.

Just curious WHY you believe something if you don't know a reason. I appreciate everyone believes different things, what I really want to know is why. It seems a lot of us think things our whole lives and never ask ourselves why? If people can't answer why, then how can they get so upset with others who have a different belief?

Just curious WHY you believe something if you don't know a reason. I appreciate everyone believes different things, what I really want to know is why. It seems a lot of us think things our whole lives and never ask ourselves why? If people can't answer why, then how can they get so upset with others who have a different belief?

Haven't had Nutella in years, but I recall it being pretty delish... To OP - I honestly don't care a lick when life begins - what matters to me is when a fetus has agency/rights beyond mom. Since a fetus can survive outside of mom around 23 ish weeks, I am gung-ho pro choice until then.

Haven't had Nutella in years, but I recall it being pretty delish... To OP - I honestly don't care a lick when life begins - what matters to me is when a fetus has agency/rights beyond mom. Since a fetus can survive outside of mom around 23 ish weeks, I am gung-ho pro choice until then.

I believe in the bible and although people can debate the interpretation of the bible, it would go against my beliefs and my moral compass to have an abortion.I don't think that I am necessarily right, therefore I don't judge nor do I push my belief.

I believe in the bible and although people can debate the interpretation of the bible, it would go against my beliefs and my moral compass to have an abortion.I don't think that I am necessarily right, therefore I don't judge nor do I push my belief.

I can understand why you feel frustrated that you didn't get a good answer to your question. I don't know that u can do a great job explaining what I believe but I will do my best. I believe life begins when an egg is fertilized. I believe that is when the soul enters. that is the moment when those two separate cells become a life because that's when they now have the ability to grow and change and become their own. I am a prolifer. I, however, do not believe all life is equal. I believe all souls are equal. something I don't believe animals and plants possess. I feel that the definition of murder should be different to include the unborn souls. I know many feel differently, and I don't think less of them as people, but it is something that is dear to my heart. I hope that provides a bit more information on a different view point.

I can understand why you feel frustrated that you didn't get a good answer to your question. I don't know that u can do a great job explaining what I believe but I will do my best. I believe life begins when an egg is fertilized. I believe that is when the soul enters. that is the moment when those two separate cells become a life because that's when they now have the ability to grow and change and become their own. I am a prolifer. I, however, do not believe all life is equal. I believe all souls are equal. something I don't believe animals and plants possess. I feel that the definition of murder should be different to include the unborn souls. I know many feel differently, and I don't think less of them as people, but it is something that is dear to my heart. I hope that provides a bit more information on a different view point.

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