[21:59:47] the tension!!!
[21:59:51] i cant stand it!
[21:59:56] Ask in the appropriate channel about your irc client. :)
[21:59:59] * stockh0lm faints
[22:00:09] weasel bitchx ?
[22:00:20] BrandenRobinson is Overfiend? i had no idea!!!
[22:00:24] no, irssi
[22:00:26] weasel: /window new
[22:00:44] ooh
[22:00:48] hush now
[22:00:55] haha
[22:00:59] sshhhh! :)
[22:01:01] are candidates not allowed in THIS channel?
[22:01:16] yes, but hush, we are trying to pay attention
[22:01:24] stockh0lm, I hope you didn't say something nasty about Branden to "Overfiend"... :-)
[22:01:42] * m2 has the weird feeling he's desynced...
[22:01:48] GyrosGeier: only nasty things.
[22:02:01] hiya m2, ltns
[22:02:11] weasel: sure, /window new split
[22:02:28] yea, I figured that. now I need to figure out how to bind them - *sigh*, never needed that before
[22:02:34] liiwi, hey, howdy?
[22:02:38] hey m2
[22:02:43] yes
[22:02:44] oops
[22:02:48] hehe
[22:02:51] gentlemen, start your engines
[22:03:00] hmm, only 111 people present
[22:03:09] out of ~1000 that's not great :s
[22:03:14] davidw: oh no, I just saw that bad movie with Stallone
[22:03:16] Where are the questions from anyway? (No, I havn't been reading the announcements)
[22:03:19] sigh, too late to question bomb, it seems :\
[22:03:19] davidw: now you reminded me again
[22:03:20] some of the people are sheep
[22:03:20] not suprising
[22:03:24] ifvoid: friday is not a very good day. And a lot of people does not IRC
[22:03:24] stupid alarm
[22:03:25] i like that system. cool.
[22:03:27] most of that 1000 don't irc or aren't even active
[22:03:32] it's the middle of the workday in the US
[22:03:35] some of the people are working
[22:03:39] Beowulf: iirc, there were much more people last year
[22:03:44] * vorlon_ isn't working, nosir.
[22:03:46] hopefully more will read the logs
[22:04:03] * Snow-Man isn't at work, really. O:)
[22:04:11] weasel: and /ignore #debian-dpl-{debate|discuss} JOINS PARTS QUITS and it's midnight in the civilized world ;)
[22:04:17] In the meantime...
[22:04:22] Snow-Man: debian-vote, and dbharris collected some over private email
[22:04:22] Anybody in here have any questions?
[22:04:22] stevee: thanks, I don't mind them
[22:04:28] this is also an election without many divisive issues
[22:04:43] (about how the debate is gonna look.)
[22:04:57] Hmm. I wonder how to do that in erc
[22:04:59] ifvoid: doh, thanks.
[22:05:01] joeyh: Almost _all_ the questions, I felt, weren't real great ones...
[22:05:23] Of course, my current question is probably too technical to be really a DPL issue anyway.
[22:05:26] dbharris: what a leader is in their opinion
[22:05:29] joeyh: maybe that's a good thing
[22:05:31] joeyh: Most of them ended up asking the DPL about their personal opinions on fairly major technilogical stuff ... and yet, I seriously doubt any of them will do anything other than follow or build consensus :)
[22:05:53] somehow everyone agreed in basic points. At least three of them.
[22:06:02] * Snow-Man hangs his head in shame. :)
[22:06:18] Snow-Man: I think you can still ask the question here
[22:06:30] Apparently, the people submitting questions all want a DPL who micromanages releases?
[22:06:31] could they not post them in turn?
[22:06:34] gack
[22:06:35] posting all at once is hard to read
[22:06:37] yow, candidate flood
[22:06:40] flood not fun...
[22:06:41] * miro shrugs
[22:06:42] eep, this is not optimal
[22:06:46] dbharris: arg! stop that! :)
[22:06:51] ifvoid: Yeah, but as dbharris said, it'd kind of technical and not really a good question probably. :)
[22:06:52] one at a time!
[22:07:04] I agree with tore.
[22:07:09] yumm
[22:07:13] dbharris: might as well start next q now
[22:07:21] or not NM
[22:07:25] hm, statements with smiles say more than they should
[22:07:26] it would help if the candidates would put their answer on a single logical line
[22:07:27] /msg them at once, and post sequentially
[22:07:28] * davidw decides to read the on-line version when it's posted
[22:07:30] dbharris: Can you maybe ask them to go in some turn, changing the order each time to avoid appearance of favoritism?
[22:07:50] Oh, doh, he already said he's gonna do that. :)
[22:07:56] Okay, anybody have any questions?
[22:07:59] liw: they have a habit of using stupid clients that break lines at the wrong places
[22:08:00] Snow-Man: though i don't think the order is relevant
[22:08:02] liw: irc has single logical line length limits :-)
[22:08:02] liw: there is a line length limitation in irc, you know ;)
[22:08:18] joeyh, good, that limits the political verbiage :)
[22:08:32] liw, yeah
[22:08:42] the line length isn't the problem so much as the clients which assume that they can _send_ 510 bytes per line and have it work, and thusly drop the ends of the lines
[22:09:21] liw :)
[22:11:06] hmm, question to the candidates to dbharris by msg?
[22:11:27] JimButton: just ask them here, I guess
[22:11:28] JimButton: I think he just wanted it in here.
[22:11:41] Though, well, if the candidates are in here they could get an advantage or some shit I guess.
[22:11:41] i'd like to ask moshe whether he thinks that over-ambitious DPLs would cause any harm
[22:11:58] Yeah, just in here.
[22:12:04] Prefix them with my nick, though, so I'll see the highlight.
[22:12:07] (Please and thanks :)
[22:12:08] well, stupid, we are educated people, not necessary to be overly formal :)
[22:12:17] JimButton: and also whether he think sthe other candidates are overambitious
[22:12:18] dbharris: i'd like to ask moshe whether he thinks that over-ambitious DPLs would cause any harm
[22:12:22] I want to know if the candidates are all human, and not cabbages or something
[22:12:35] bah, don't people know what the DPL role is
[22:12:43] asuffield: you better don't wanna know :)
[22:12:44] asuffield: Better check if their keys are actually signed.
[22:12:45] asuffield: or some fictiteous person, made up by Manoj
[22:12:47] m2: no, damnit
[22:12:51] ifvoid: :)
[22:12:52] JimButton: I'll ask that that be kept to the list.
[22:13:05] asuffield, or vampyres, and get in trouble with buffy when she is elected
[22:13:06] m2: no, but I know that a DPL roll is like a croissant.
[22:13:13] JimButton: (Trying to keep live questions to those of clarification and whatnot.)
[22:13:13] JimButton: you want to elect a cabbage by mistake?
[22:13:21] vorlon_ lol
[22:13:34] I'd like to know from the candidates what they think about all the time and resources we waste supporting useless architectures like m68k and sh
[22:13:37] dbharris: ok
[22:13:38] dbharris: "What will you do to decrease the 'stonewall culture', or do you feel that it is not a problem?"
[22:13:56] I don't think we've ever actually supported sh
[22:14:01] ds-work_: what is stonewall culture?
[22:14:08] Well, that was ugly.
[22:14:09] Who's wasting resources supporting sh?
[22:14:11] hey biella
[22:14:24] * Snow-Man waits of dbharris to be knocked offline.
[22:14:27] Keep the questions to those of clarification, please.
[22:14:28] I would like to ask the old non-free-yes-or-no question: what would they as DPL do: fight non-DFSG software by the next occasion or tolerate it as it is currently done.
[22:14:36] * joeyh notes that AFAIK "Universal Operating System" was something someone checked into webwml cvs back when, in a fit of grandiosity
[22:14:40] hey tbm
[22:14:42] biella: allow me to rephrase that
[22:14:44] Normal questions were solicited for at least a week or two already, we've got all the ones we're gonna get to :)
[22:14:53] * jkm decides that he should just read the transcript, as following is too bloody difficult :)
[22:15:00] Okay, anybody need to ask any questions?
[22:15:03] md: why not drop i386 and only have k-whatever and i686 instead
[22:15:03] they all they the same, what a scandal! :)
[22:15:10] lol, moshez is good.
[22:15:18] part: because it would be stupid
[22:15:18] part: because I have an i386. any further questions?
[22:15:24] part: there were several flamewars over that
[22:15:34] * Manoj applies folding functions to the debian-dpl-debate emacs buffer
[22:15:39] ifvoid: like I didn't know that
[22:15:47] Manoj: foldl or foldr?
[22:15:50] ;)
[22:15:54] we have three cloned candidates?
[22:15:56] * Marvin-- has been hacking Haskell today
[22:15:59] Marvin--: line wrapping :)
[22:16:04] Beowulf: haha
[22:16:04] Beowulf: Apparently.
[22:16:07] Beowulf: it looks like it
[22:16:11] hahaha
[22:16:13] The questions kinda suck tho.
[22:16:23] Beowulf: but one of them accidentally had a little bit of the secret ingredient, "Chemical X", added to the clone vat.
[22:16:28] Oh, ok, that last question was decent.
[22:16:34] hah
[22:16:36] no
[22:16:36] that's a nice question
[22:16:39] nice
[22:16:42] no it wasn't. it's like asking pop stars what their favorite colour is. :P
[22:16:49] anyone take bets?
[22:16:49] ds-work_ still working on the rephrase?
[22:16:52] green :P
[22:16:56] at all. They can vote whatever they want as if they were voting himself :)
[22:16:56] joeyh: the concept has stuck, though
[22:17:04] asuffield: no, it's like asking pop stars what music they like
[22:17:04] asuffield: Hey man, at least the answers will be different and thus more interesting.
[22:17:12] * weasel would vote for cowboy neal
[22:17:21] haha
[22:17:22] biella: yes. I'm at work, which is making this, um, tedious
[22:17:24] bleh slashdot...
[22:17:25] Yeah, I expect the candidates to hate the people who came up with that question.
[22:17:27] * mhp 'd vote for buffy
[22:17:27] (I'm not telling though :)
[22:17:28] overfiend will vote for tbm, i guess, tbm for bdale, don't know about the others :)
[22:17:30] not robot101?
[22:17:34] misato: haven't looked at it in ages
[22:17:42] bah, pointless nitpicking by martin, I think it was obvious what moshe meant
[22:17:43] dbharris: (too late, but maybe it fits later) How do the candidates intend to achieve univerality without sacrificing individual usefulness, or without the computing universe narrow way down?
[22:17:44] It'll be interesting to see who _wouldn't_ get any votes.
[22:17:44] ooh. yes, of course. buffy.
[22:17:52] * Beowulf hughs Buffy!
[22:18:01] (so, that's at least one person who missed the point)
[22:18:11] hehe.
[22:18:14] Moppet: well asked
[22:18:16] Manoj: how many seconds do you want, btw? :)
[22:18:17] .oO( what do the candidates think about P and NP? are they equal or not? can they prove it? )
[22:18:24] dbharris: it's not vicious, its just BrandenRobinson being a pita. :)
[22:18:27] JimButton: yes! I want to know that too! :)
[22:18:34] Omnic: HEhe :)
[22:18:41] dbharris: question: should we stop releasing some architectures when there is not enough qualified manpower to make them ready for release (say, missing D-I developers)?
[22:18:59] My prediction for Moshe is to vote for tbm, and bdale for tbm too
[22:19:10] dbharris, question: Given that most people are idiots, *should* Debian be a democracy?
[22:19:16] GyrosGeier: unfortunately too late to place bets :)
[22:19:26] dbharris: question (for the very end, for fun, etc): Did you feed your tamagotchi today?
[22:19:32] liw, does that count for debian developers too? :)
[22:19:34] liw: ooh, the "benevolent dictatorship as the best form of government" thing?
[22:19:48] hmm, quite political of Overfiend
[22:19:57] Okay, everybody, read those responses and make sure you understand them.
[22:20:01] (If not, say so.)
[22:20:04] branden chickened out
[22:20:07] booh
[22:20:30] GyrosGeier: did you read the before?
[22:20:31] hmm
[22:20:32] I think I'm gonna vote for MosheZadka just because his response almost looks decent compared to the others in terms of the pasting and stuff. :)
[22:20:43] liw: i don't think they are idiots, mostly they're just unknowing, clueless, not informed, or wrong informed
[22:20:48] dbharris: question: should we invite developer who left because of problems (like keyring, frustration because of the releasy cycle) to rejoin
[22:20:50] GyrosGeier: good prediction..
[22:20:50] I understand all four are being political...
[22:20:54] Beowulf, no just a guess based on the platforms.
[22:20:55] haha, going for minimalist aesthetics Snow-Man
[22:20:58] mhp: not that goddamn question :P
[22:21:11] DanielS: why? It _was_ answered last year! :)
[22:21:24] yes
[22:21:24] dbharris: can BrandenRobinson explain [ 1 ] and [ 2 ] two for us :)
[22:21:43] that was explained in the vote announcement
[22:21:44] misato: entries on the ballot paper
[22:21:49] ok :)
[22:22:01] * misato locates a corner to sit in
[22:22:15] dbharris: you can vote candidates on equal levels. like give 2 to two people
[22:22:21] misato: he means he'd either rank them all equally or as inferior to "none of the above"
[22:22:27] weasel: Yeah, I think I covered that.
[22:22:31] Hahaha, 'cop-out, dude'
[22:22:32] BTW, is there a web page where we can place bets on the outcome?
[22:22:33] " I would vote for Martin Michelmayr."
[22:22:35] bzzt, bzzt, wrong
[22:22:38] those who are unaware of debian's voting process are irrelevant
[22:22:38] dbharris: (sorry for my lag)
[22:22:40] michelmayr, heh
[22:22:42] * fd0 /clears
[22:22:55] DanielS: better than michelmeier
[22:22:57] they don't get to vote, so their opinions don't count for anything
[22:23:01] * Kamion boggles
[22:23:01] lol
[22:23:01] *G
[22:23:04] hahaha
[22:23:05] haha
[22:23:06] lol
[22:23:07] asuffield: heh
[22:23:08] ?
[22:23:09] oh man
[22:23:11] asuffield: no, they can still provide entertainment like those people who ranked only one candidate in the SPI elections, thereby effectively abstaining
[22:23:12] weasel: mikulmyer
[22:23:13] because nobody made them, stupid :)
[22:23:17] dbharris: that is not specific enough
[22:23:19] the point of that one being ...?
[22:23:22] dbharris: ???
[22:23:23] duh, whos question was that?
[22:23:24] Zomb: Deliberately so, actually.
[22:23:31] DanielS: na, meier, mair, mayr, etc are all common versions around here
[22:23:35] "because it's not only technically impossible but legally impossible?"
[22:23:37] whoops
[22:23:38] Zomb: I won't mention it here, but I'll explain some of the reasoning behind it after the candidates have responded.
[22:23:40] cygwin-esque GNU/Win32?
[22:23:41] dbharris: follow-up for BrandenRobinson: how does he reconcile his vision for proactively addressing issues in Debian with his statement that he would rank Moshe's laissez faire platform equally with the other two candidates?
[22:23:41] That question was kinda sucky.
[22:23:48] what a stupid question :)
[22:23:50] haha.
[22:23:51] I thought -debate was moderated
[22:23:51] oh god, this question sucks
[22:23:51] Hey, it wasn't _mine_ :)
[22:23:52] well, irrelevant :)
[22:23:55] I just thought it was good.
[22:24:00] yeah... who gives a fuck about windows?
[22:24:02] * vorlon_ peers at that question.
[22:24:03] * fd0 points at the win32-qt-license
[22:24:03] (mikklemayor?)
[22:24:04] dbharris: of course it was, Fri 23:22:54 Why doesn't Debian offer packages that run under Windows?
[22:24:05] "d00d i did the apt-get install photoshop but i just gotz the .exe and i kant run it!! HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111"
[22:24:14] okay, okay, one can understand free windows software in wine, others windows-software as part of debian-win32, etc.
[22:24:18] dbharris: you asked it, we're shooting the messenger.
[22:24:27] vorlon++
[22:24:32] dbharris gimme a break! they have to be DPL! no MCSE (Microsoft Certified Slaves of the Empire)
[22:24:33] DanielS: lol
[22:24:34] hey, .exes will run with wine+binfmt-support ...
[22:24:35] DanielS: you need a space before the first ! !!1
[22:24:37] haha, moshez is confused sa well
[22:24:49]