If I make a phone call to Buffalo from Detroit does it take the most direct route through Canada, or is it set up to only travel through U.S. based network equipment? The second that transmission hits AT&T's "international network equipment" it would be fair game even though both the caller and receiver are located in the U.S.

Isn't this some kind of privacy violation? Or are there no privacy laws in the USA? I know in Europe there are strict laws about sharing information.

Why no, the fine upstanding people at the NSA, in our Congress and White House have assured us this is in no way illegal or a privacy violation. /s

You people do realize private companies do this same thing right? Anyone can pay for your data from AT&T and Verizion. Go to any telecomm tech conference and you'll realize AT&T and Verizon are allowed to do whatever the hell they want to do with your data. Your anger should be with them.

Isn't this some kind of privacy violation? Or are there no privacy laws in the USA? I know in Europe there are strict laws about sharing information.

Why no, the fine upstanding people at the NSA, in our Congress and White House have assured us this is in no way illegal or a privacy violation. /s

You people do realize private companies do this same thing right? Anyone can pay for your data from AT&T and Verizion. Go to any telecomm tech conference and you'll realize AT&T and Verizon are allowed to do whatever the hell they want to do with your data. Your anger should be with them.

Oh, it is. That doesn't make what the government is doing forgiveable. There is plenty of anger to go around.

Isn't this some kind of privacy violation? Or are there no privacy laws in the USA? I know in Europe there are strict laws about sharing information.

Why no, the fine upstanding people at the NSA, in our Congress and White House have assured us this is in no way illegal or a privacy violation. /s

You people do realize private companies do this same thing right? Anyone can pay for your data from AT&T and Verizion. Go to any telecomm tech conference and you'll realize AT&T and Verizon are allowed to do whatever the hell they want to do with your data. Your anger should be with them.

Oh, it is. That doesn't make what the government is doing forgiveable. There is plenty of anger to go around.

Except that the government is (at least in this instance) fully utilizing something a company will just give out as long as the price is right. I know of start-ups that do the same thing with Verizion and AT&T and in exchange do you know what these start-ups do? They sell more information back to Verizon and AT&T for a discount on the price they pay for your data.

Isn't this some kind of privacy violation? Or are there no privacy laws in the USA? I know in Europe there are strict laws about sharing information.

Why no, the fine upstanding people at the NSA, in our Congress and White House have assured us this is in no way illegal or a privacy violation. /s

You people do realize private companies do this same thing right? Anyone can pay for your data from AT&T and Verizion. Go to any telecomm tech conference and you'll realize AT&T and Verizon are allowed to do whatever the hell they want to do with your data. Your anger should be with them.

I'd like to know more about this. How do I buy the phone records of Donald Trump? Or my senators? Or some Hollywood VIP?

Isn't this some kind of privacy violation? Or are there no privacy laws in the USA? I know in Europe there are strict laws about sharing information.

Why no, the fine upstanding people at the NSA, in our Congress and White House have assured us this is in no way illegal or a privacy violation. /s

You people do realize private companies do this same thing right? Anyone can pay for your data from AT&T and Verizion. Go to any telecomm tech conference and you'll realize AT&T and Verizon are allowed to do whatever the hell they want to do with your data. Your anger should be with them.

Isn't this some kind of privacy violation? Or are there no privacy laws in the USA? I know in Europe there are strict laws about sharing information.

Why no, the fine upstanding people at the NSA, in our Congress and White House have assured us this is in no way illegal or a privacy violation. /s

You people do realize private companies do this same thing right? Anyone can pay for your data from AT&T and Verizion. Go to any telecomm tech conference and you'll realize AT&T and Verizon are allowed to do whatever the hell they want to do with your data. Your anger should be with them.

Exactly right, charging for info on traffic information is nothing new.I hate the whole NSA situation as much as the next guy, but from the info in the article, this arrangement actually sounds like the most correct implementation of what is SUPPOSED to be happening.

It SOUNDS like they are only collecting metadata, and only if it is international.And when asked, they only search for specific call numbers. With all the news coming out about the fiasco, this particular instance should cause the least surprise or outrage.-That being said, I don't know if we can believe that things were actually implemented as exact and precise as stated.

Isn't this some kind of privacy violation? Or are there no privacy laws in the USA? I know in Europe there are strict laws about sharing information.

Why no, the fine upstanding people at the NSA, in our Congress and White House have assured us this is in no way illegal or a privacy violation. /s

You people do realize private companies do this same thing right? Anyone can pay for your data from AT&T and Verizion. Go to any telecomm tech conference and you'll realize AT&T and Verizon are allowed to do whatever the hell they want to do with your data. Your anger should be with them.

I'd like to know more about this. How do I buy the phone records of Donald Trump? Or my senators? Or some Hollywood VIP?

Be specific.

It works the same way the NSA's payment works, they can request bulk data from all phones of the carrier, they don't get the intricate details such as text conversations or phone call recordings but they get time/date/to/from/etc. Names are not given without a warrant. There was a start-up at Tech Crunch disrupt this year in San Francisco that utilized this to essentially pass all private data from you to places like Comcast so that they didn't have to ask you for information. But they also, in return, would make money by selling newly discovered information on you back to Verizon/AT&T.

Honestly it's very stupid, because everyone is getting up in arms towards the government for utilizing something you literally agreed to when you signed your phone contract years ago. You sign away all of your usage statistics,data and call info to your provider and they can sell it to whoever and whenever they want.

Dwight D. Eisenhower warned us about this over 50 years ago. We've abrogated our rights to this strange mix of companies and government.

President Eisenhower wrote:

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

I'm not sure there is a new story here. this seems like it could be spin on facts.

The government can not expect companies to do work for free and must pay for any work done on requests.

Yahoo in another article was still waiting on the government to pay for its service in requests. (was a hefty chunck of change as well.) Government has to pay for workers time and associated hardware to make requests feasible if I recall.

Could be that AT&T through its long existence has made a process out of it to insure payment.

Isn't this some kind of privacy violation? Or are there no privacy laws in the USA? I know in Europe there are strict laws about sharing information.

Why no, the fine upstanding people at the NSA, in our Congress and White House have assured us this is in no way illegal or a privacy violation. /s

You people do realize private companies do this same thing right? Anyone can pay for your data from AT&T and Verizion. Go to any telecomm tech conference and you'll realize AT&T and Verizon are allowed to do whatever the hell they want to do with your data. Your anger should be with them.

Exactly right, charging for info on traffic information is nothing new.I hate the whole NSA situation as much as the next guy, but from the info in the article, this arrangement actually sounds like the most correct implementation of what is SUPPOSED to be happening.

It SOUNDS like they are only collecting metadata, and only if it is international.And when asked, they only search for specific call numbers. With all the news coming out about the fiasco, this particular instance should cause the least surprise or outrage.-That being said, I don't know if we can believe that things were actually implemented as exact and precise as stated.

Honestly this entire "fiasco" just bleeds of the quote "Do not ascribe to malice what you can to ignorance". I think the NSA had normal intentions with all that it was doing, it was just very stupid doing it. Everyone wants to think that they are becomming a big brother, but look at the leaks like this, the ones where everyone still gets pissed despite there actually being no fault but on the consumer side and the fact that nobody told AT&T to shove their TOS up their ass for selling massive amounts of data.

A lot of the leaks have ended up like this, Lavabit turned out to be using the NSA scare to shut down their services before they got sued from someone realizing they didn't actually offer protection. XKeyscore is more of a SIEM than anything else. Obviously we don't know all the information, but I think this entire thing keeps getting blown more and more out of proportion as more leaks come forward despite leaks like this one being completely harmless/not out of the ordinary.

Isn't this some kind of privacy violation? Or are there no privacy laws in the USA? I know in Europe there are strict laws about sharing information.

Why no, the fine upstanding people at the NSA, in our Congress and White House have assured us this is in no way illegal or a privacy violation. /s

You people do realize private companies do this same thing right? Anyone can pay for your data from AT&T and Verizion. Go to any telecomm tech conference and you'll realize AT&T and Verizon are allowed to do whatever the hell they want to do with your data. Your anger should be with them.

Exactly right, charging for info on traffic information is nothing new.I hate the whole NSA situation as much as the next guy, but from the info in the article, this arrangement actually sounds like the most correct implementation of what is SUPPOSED to be happening.

It SOUNDS like they are only collecting metadata, and only if it is international.And when asked, they only search for specific call numbers. With all the news coming out about the fiasco, this particular instance should cause the least surprise or outrage.-That being said, I don't know if we can believe that things were actually implemented as exact and precise as stated.

Honestly this entire "fiasco" just bleeds of the quote "Do not ascribe to malice what you can to ignorance". I think the NSA had normal intentions with all that it was doing, it was just very stupid doing it. Everyone wants to think that they are becomming a big brother, but look at the leaks like this, the ones where everyone still gets pissed despite there actually being no fault but on the consumer side and the fact that nobody told AT&T to shove their TOS up their ass for selling massive amounts of data.

A lot of the leaks have ended up like this, Lavabit turned out to be using the NSA scare to shut down their services before they got sued from someone realizing they didn't actually offer protection. XKeyscore is more of a SIEM than anything else. Obviously we don't know all the information, but I think this entire thing keeps getting blown more and more out of proportion as more leaks come forward despite leaks like this one being completely harmless/not out of the ordinary.

Ever tried to get a phone without signing one TOS or another without that clause in it?

You can't

Even if you could negotiate the TOS with the provider... they'd simply ignore it and assume you agreed to the standard terms. How would you ever know the difference?

Isn't this some kind of privacy violation? Or are there no privacy laws in the USA? I know in Europe there are strict laws about sharing information.

Why no, the fine upstanding people at the NSA, in our Congress and White House have assured us this is in no way illegal or a privacy violation. /s

You people do realize private companies do this same thing right? Anyone can pay for your data from AT&T and Verizion. Go to any telecomm tech conference and you'll realize AT&T and Verizon are allowed to do whatever the hell they want to do with your data. Your anger should be with them.

When ATT and/or Verizon sends a goon squad to my house and throws me into solitary confinement, your position will be true. Until then, only the U(N)SA can do that.

From AT&T's quote within the article:" ... we routinely charge governments for producing the information provided. We do not comment on questions concerning national security."

And indeed no comment is needed simply because it goes without saying that an individual's constitutional or jurisdictional guarantees to rights of privacy are trumped by AT&Ts receipt of any necessary & appropriate administrative fees.

Isn't this some kind of privacy violation? Or are there no privacy laws in the USA? I know in Europe there are strict laws about sharing information.

Why no, the fine upstanding people at the NSA, in our Congress and White House have assured us this is in no way illegal or a privacy violation. /s

You people do realize private companies do this same thing right? Anyone can pay for your data from AT&T and Verizion. Go to any telecomm tech conference and you'll realize AT&T and Verizon are allowed to do whatever the hell they want to do with your data. Your anger should be with them.

I'd like to know more about this. How do I buy the phone records of Donald Trump? Or my senators? Or some Hollywood VIP?

Be specific.

It works the same way the NSA's payment works, they can request bulk data from all phones of the carrier, they don't get the intricate details such as text conversations or phone call recordings but they get time/date/to/from/etc. Names are not given without a warrant. There was a start-up at Tech Crunch disrupt this year in San Francisco that utilized this to essentially pass all private data from you to places like Comcast so that they didn't have to ask you for information. But they also, in return, would make money by selling newly discovered information on you back to Verizon/AT&T.

Honestly it's very stupid, because everyone is getting up in arms towards the government for utilizing something you literally agreed to when you signed your phone contract years ago. You sign away all of your usage statistics,data and call info to your provider and they can sell it to whoever and whenever they want.

That would be valid if we had a choice of phone carriers and could take our business to the ones that respected our privacy, and information about that conduct was available to consumers. It does seem to be emerging that AT&T stands out as especially bad, but I don't know if that would really hold up if we knew everything. In practice, it appears that you have no choice. If you want to participate in modern life, you have to sign on for this, one way or another.