ununcle:Lynch mobs don't use torches and rope anymore. They use cell phones, I pods and politics. You're right about one thing though,, their trying to get even. The OJ verdict, the central park wilding, flash mobs, the rash of hate crime litigation against anyone who doesn't cow-toe to the PC police, demonstrates in spades every farking day,week, month and year since forced integration that it's more about "payback" then it is about this farking rainbow of devirstity y'all try to preach. So grasp this. If you raise your farking 17 year old 6 foot tall football playing craka hating kid to pummel me,,,, he might wind up dead.

"I know what it's like to be hunted by an angry mob, Jim Crow Era blacks. No, no, they're not setting my church on fire or dragging me down the road with their car. They're using...words. Traumatic, I know."

I would respond to your rant by warning you not to go hunting for minorities to feed your revenge fantasies unless you want a broken nose. But that's apparently legal these days. So, um, happy hunting, I guess.

Dimensio:Taylor Mental: Dimensio: What level of injury must an individual sustain before you approve of the use of deadly force to end a violent attack?

The injury to your ego as a wanna-be cop would be enough for most of us. Stay in the truck, wait for the real police. Zimmerman not only claimed Martin was acting suspicious but actually circled his truck and "checked him out." To any reasonable person that's cause to avoid a confrontation and let the cops handle it.

But Zimmerman didn't do that, did he?

You did not address my question.

What injury do you believe that a citizen must endure before deadly force is justified? Are citizens obligated to suffer broken bones before deadly force is warranted? Do you believe that citizens should never use deadly force, and that they should allow themselves to be beaten even to death if an attacker wishes to do so?

Your question is a fallacy and a red herring. We don't know the exact circumstances that led up to the altercation between Zimmerman and Martin. We know that a reasonable person would not have pursued someone they deemed as a dangerous, thug, criminal when the police were only minutes away from responding and all the training they previously had, and the police dispatcher told them not to pursue the "suspect" yet he did it anyway. Unless that person wanted to apprehend the suspect.

And George Zimmerman clearly expressed that he was frustrated with all these asshole punks getting away. We KNOW that. Whatever happened it never would have occurred if Zimmerman would have acted reasonable in the first place. He got himself in to the situation, even if Treyvon punched him first, and he ALONE is responsible for that.

We might as well just disband all the police departments and hand out guns to everyone if that's the notion of justice we're going to let slide these days.

There didn't need to be any wounds, only that a reasonable person in those circumstances would fear for their body or even life. In example, you've apparently suffered, and indeed, are still suffering from, life lasting harm to the cranial region.

Newsflash: Getting your head beat in does not make you a cranial injury expert, any more than a mother is automatically a pediatrician expert or getting raped makes you a gynecological expert.

The Great EZE:ununcle: Lynch mobs don't use torches and rope anymore. They use cell phones, I pods and politics. You're right about one thing though,, their trying to get even. The OJ verdict, the central park wilding, flash mobs, the rash of hate crime litigation against anyone who doesn't cow-toe to the PC police, demonstrates in spades every farking day,week, month and year since forced integration that it's more about "payback" then it is about this farking rainbow of devirstity y'all try to preach. So grasp this. If you raise your farking 17 year old 6 foot tall football playing craka hating kid to pummel me,,,, he might wind up dead.

"I know what it's like to be hunted by an angry mob, Jim Crow Era blacks. No, no, they're not setting my church on fire or dragging me down the road with their car. They're using...words. Traumatic, I know."

I would respond to your rant by warning you not to go hunting for minorities to feed your revenge fantasies unless you want a broken nose. But that's apparently legal these days. So, um, happy hunting, I guess.

Dimensio:many victims of violent attacks lack the telepathic and precognitive abilities required to determine the specific intent of their attacker,

Like maybe a kid walking home in the rain being accosted by a fat rent-a-cop with a gun?

Dimensio:legal systems are often structured around those limitations, allowing individuals to assume the worst possible intent of an aggressor and act accordingly without requiring them to first suffer the extent of injuries that the aggressor may wish to inflict.

Unless he winds up dead at the hands of his attacker then fark 'em! Let the guy with the gun walk.

iq_in_binary:Dude.....your hero ended up with a farking teenager on top of him in FULL FARKING MOUNT. Yeah, once you have a teenager on top of you in full mount, you've lost all claim to manliness, manhood, heterosexuality, ANYTHING that makes you a man or an adult.

Dude, TEENAGER. FULL MOUNT. Yeah, you're pathetic.

Sure, he's not guilty, but he's not a man either.

I can't not notice every time I see the term "full mount" in this thread it's in either a post by you, or someone responding to you. Then I checked and it appears in everyone of your post you say "full mount" like 3 or four times. Not to go all subliminal on you,, but,, Umm,,, isn't there a thread about the boy scouts you're missing somewhere?

omeganuepsilon:SirHolo: Well, as someone who has had my head bashed in

That explains everything....Newsflash: Getting your head beat in does not make you a cranial injury expert, any more than a mother is automatically a pediatrician expert or getting raped makes you a gynecological expert.

Um, more of an, "I've been there, and have a good idea of what it a good smack looks like."

And most people have probably seen superficial cranial lesions (that is, in your language, "a little cut") bleed like hell. The head has many blood vessels all over its surface. A good, solid wound will bleed even more.

omeganuepsilon:The Great EZE: ununcle: Lynch mobs don't use torches and rope anymore. They use cell phones, I pods and politics. You're right about one thing though,, their trying to get even. The OJ verdict, the central park wilding, flash mobs, the rash of hate crime litigation against anyone who doesn't cow-toe to the PC police, demonstrates in spades every farking day,week, month and year since forced integration that it's more about "payback" then it is about this farking rainbow of devirstity y'all try to preach. So grasp this. If you raise your farking 17 year old 6 foot tall football playing craka hating kid to pummel me,,,, he might wind up dead.

"I know what it's like to be hunted by an angry mob, Jim Crow Era blacks. No, no, they're not setting my church on fire or dragging me down the road with their car. They're using...words. Traumatic, I know."

I would respond to your rant by warning you not to go hunting for minorities to feed your revenge fantasies unless you want a broken nose. But that's apparently legal these days. So, um, happy hunting, I guess.

Don't you have a riot to be at in 26 minutes?

Again: I'm not going to do so much as raise my voice in public because I know someone like you is going to ground stand me and get away with it. Once bitten, twice shy and all that. I'll be sure to be home by dark.

iq_in_binary:Dude.....your hero ended up with a farking teenager on top of him in FULL FARKING MOUNT. Yeah, once you have a teenager on top of you in full mount, you've lost all claim to manliness, manhood, heterosexuality, ANYTHING that makes you a man or an adult.

ununcle: Lynch mobs don't use torches and rope anymore. They use cell phones, I pods and politics. You're right about one thing though,, their trying to get even. The OJ verdict, the central park wilding, flash mobs, the rash of hate crime litigation against anyone who doesn't cow-toe to the PC police, demonstrates in spades every farking day,week, month and year since forced integration that it's more about "payback" then it is about this farking rainbow of devirstity y'all try to preach. So grasp this. If you raise your farking 17 year old 6 foot tall football playing craka hating kid to pummel me,,,, he might wind up dead.

Dude, you're scared to death of them darkies, aren't you?

I respect a racist that will say right up front he hates nubians way more than these cowards and so-called libartarians and tea baggers who play the "I know you are but what am" race card bullshiat. You got balls and conviction. Carry on, brutha.

The Great EZE:Dimensio: many victims of violent attacks lack the telepathic and precognitive abilities required to determine the specific intent of their attacker,

Like maybe a kid walking home in the rain being accosted by a fat rent-a-cop with a gun?

You are correct. Under such a hypothetical scenario, should one ever have occurred, the youth would have no means of assessing the intent of the "fat rent-a-cop". I do not understand how such a purely hypothetical scenario relates to the current discussion, however.

Dimensio: legal systems are often structured around those limitations, allowing individuals to assume the worst possible intent of an aggressor and act accordingly without requiring them to first suffer the extent of injuries that the aggressor may wish to inflict.

Unless he winds up dead at the hands of his attacker then fark 'em! Let the guy with the gun walk.

You are mistaken. The initiator of the physical attack bears legal responsibility for the consequences of the attack.

The Great EZE:ununcle: Lynch mobs don't use torches and rope anymore. They use cell phones, I pods and politics. You're right about one thing though,, their trying to get even. The OJ verdict, the central park wilding, flash mobs, the rash of hate crime litigation against anyone who doesn't cow-toe to the PC police, demonstrates in spades every farking day,week, month and year since forced integration that it's more about "payback" then it is about this farking rainbow of devirstity y'all try to preach. So grasp this. If you raise your farking 17 year old 6 foot tall football playing craka hating kid to pummel me,,,, he might wind up dead.

"I know what it's like to be hunted by an angry mob, Jim Crow Era blacks. No, no, they're not setting my church on fire or dragging me down the road with their car. They're using...words. Traumatic, I know."

I would respond to your rant by warning you not to go hunting for minorities to feed your revenge fantasies unless you want a broken nose. But that's apparently legal these days. So, um, happy hunting, I guess.

I could give examples worse then church fires like the KC massacre but would most likely get banned for it.

Not to worry... if he is killed by vigilantiasm. His murderers will mmediately be the poster children for racism against White Hispanics. Assuming everyone remembers that he's only half caucasian by conception that is.

The Great EZE: I'm just taking that reasoning to its logical conclusion:

One more time, and try clicking your ruby slippers together while you say it. Maybe you'll come back to reality.

You'redoing a really crappy job with this "counter-argument" thing. Where am I wrong? Are people not using legal technicalities to absolve Zimmerman of any moral responsibility? If they are, should they not also use legal technicalities to absolve Casey Anthony of moral responsibility?

Taylor Mental:ununcle: Lynch mobs don't use torches and rope anymore. They use cell phones, I pods and politics. You're right about one thing though,, their trying to get even. The OJ verdict, the central park wilding, flash mobs, the rash of hate crime litigation against anyone who doesn't cow-toe to the PC police, demonstrates in spades every farking day,week, month and year since forced integration that it's more about "payback" then it is about this farking rainbow of devirstity y'all try to preach. So grasp this. If you raise your farking 17 year old 6 foot tall football playing craka hating kid to pummel me,,,, he might wind up dead.

Dude, you're scared to death of them darkies, aren't you?

I respect a racist that will say right up front he hates nubians way more than these cowards and so-called libartarians and tea baggers who play the "I know you are but what am" race card bullshiat. You got balls and conviction. Carry on, brutha.

Ahh,, The last bastion of the intellectual coward. Attach a "-phobia" or "-ism" to the offending idealism.

Taylor Mental:ununcle: Lynch mobs don't use torches and rope anymore. They use cell phones, I pods and politics. You're right about one thing though,, their trying to get even. The OJ verdict, the central park wilding, flash mobs, the rash of hate crime litigation against anyone who doesn't cow-toe to the PC police, demonstrates in spades every farking day,week, month and year since forced integration that it's more about "payback" then it is about this farking rainbow of devirstity y'all try to preach. So grasp this. If you raise your farking 17 year old 6 foot tall football playing craka hating kid to pummel me,,,, he might wind up dead.

Dude, you're scared to death of them darkies, aren't you?

I respect a racist that will say right up front he hates nubians way more than these cowards and so-called libartarians and tea baggers who play the "I know you are but what am" race card bullshiat. You got balls and conviction. Carry on, brutha.

Dimensio:The Great EZE: Dimensio: many victims of violent attacks lack the telepathic and precognitive abilities required to determine the specific intent of their attacker,

Like maybe a kid walking home in the rain being accosted by a fat rent-a-cop with a gun?

You are correct. Under such a hypothetical scenario, should one ever have occurred, the youth would have no means of assessing the intent of the "fat rent-a-cop". I do not understand how such a purely hypothetical scenario relates to the current discussion, however.

That's cute. So what exactly are you debating? That he wasn't being accosted (perhaps I should use a more Zimmerman-friendly term like "annoyingly helped" or "freedom shadowed")? That it wasn't raining? That Zimmerman is not, in fact, a fat rent-a-cop?

The Great EZE:Dimensio: The Great EZE: Dimensio: many victims of violent attacks lack the telepathic and precognitive abilities required to determine the specific intent of their attacker,

Like maybe a kid walking home in the rain being accosted by a fat rent-a-cop with a gun?

You are correct. Under such a hypothetical scenario, should one ever have occurred, the youth would have no means of assessing the intent of the "fat rent-a-cop". I do not understand how such a purely hypothetical scenario relates to the current discussion, however.

That's cute. So what exactly are you debating? That he wasn't being accosted (perhaps I should use a more Zimmerman-friendly term like "annoyingly helped" or "freedom shadowed")? That it wasn't raining? That Zimmerman is not, in fact, a fat rent-a-cop?

I am debating nothing. I merely addressed the hypothetical scenario that you presented and then stated that I do not understand how that hypothetical scenario relates to the current discussion.

Nah, as much as I wanted him to be guilty, I'll still have the beyond reproach method of treating him like trash because in the end, a farking teenager was not only able to get him on the ground, that 17 year old kid managed to get on top of him in a full mount.

Face it, the farker needs a gun to get a farking GUMBALL. The quarter might kill him otherwise.

iq_in_binary:Dude.....your hero ended up with a farking teenager on top of him in FULL FARKING MOUNT. Yeah, once you have a teenager on top of you in full mount, you've lost all claim to manliness, manhood, heterosexuality, ANYTHING that makes you a man or an adult.

BigNumber12:iq_in_binary: Dude.....your hero ended up with a farking teenager on top of him in FULL FARKING MOUNT. Yeah, once you have a teenager on top of you in full mount, you've lost all claim to manliness, manhood, heterosexuality, ANYTHING that makes you a man or an adult.

Dude, TEENAGER. FULL MOUNT. Yeah, you're pathetic.

Sure, he's not guilty, but he's not a man either.

There is no way that you're not trolling.

Nope, not trolling. Do you know just how much of a failure you have to be in a fight to let someone get a full mount? For those that don't know, full mount means knees under armpits or pinning down arms. It's literally the last position on earth you want to be in in a fight. That means the farker can pin down your arms and go to farking town on you. If you had even 2 brain cells to rub together, you would transition to half or full guard and keep him from doing that, and it's NOT THAT HARD TO DO. But no, by his own admission, and for justification to pull his little weenis he carries around to make up for the real one he doesn't have, Zimmerman was under a TEENAGER IN FULL MOUNT.

That's not trolling, pointing out just how utterly pathetic someone is makes this society better. Because the pathetic either remove themselves from said society or kill themselves. Mr. Gun Muscles ended up UNDER A FARKING TEENAGER IN A FULL MOUNT. That's so many levels of fail that his suicide MIGHT be considered honorable seppuku in my mind. MIGHT. Not giving him favorable odds.

The story on the left is factual, the story on the right is editorialized as all hell. Scott witnessed a crime in progress, confronted the criminals on his front lawn, was charged by one of them and killed his attacker. Zimmerman saw no crime in progress. He stalked Martin and left his car to chase him down after being told not to do so by the police.

Those in Zimmerman's corner believe that everything that took place prior to the physical confrontation between Martin and Zimmerman is irrelevant and all that matters is that in the course of a fist fight which Zimmerman was losing, he shot and killed Martin. The rest of us believe that Zimmerman's actions led directly to the confrontation and his failure to act responsibly led to Martin's death and that he should have to pay for that negligence.

The two cases are not comparable.

Except, in the latter case you mention, "Zimmerman's actions led directly to the confrontation and his failure to act responsibly led to Martin's death," is not applicable, by law.

Deal with it.

Exactly. He didn't invite Treyvon Martin to beat his ass just by the simple act of following him. Whoever threw the first punch was ultimately at fault for escalating the confrontation.

If, as a 17 year old, I was being followed through my neighborhood by someone I didn't recognize with an unknown intent, I might have felt threatened, and I might have thrown a punch or tried to disable my pursuer in order to get away.

So one day soon, a large black man is going to spot Zimmerman on the street at night, follow him, then get right up in his face, acting aggressively.

Zimmerman's hand moves near his jacket, black guy shoots him dead.

Given it's common knowledge Zimmerman carries a weapon and has used it to kill, twitching so much as finger towards a carry location is enough justification to put the black gentlemen in fear of death or serious bodily harm.

He then walks a free man following a fair and equal trial.

That's how this will play out, right?

In other news, America is a nation sickeningly addicted to firearms. Seek help.

The story on the left is factual, the story on the right is editorialized as all hell. Scott witnessed a crime in progress, confronted the criminals on his front lawn, was charged by one of them and killed his attacker. Zimmerman saw no crime in progress. He stalked Martin and left his car to chase him down after being told not to do so by the police.

Those in Zimmerman's corner believe that everything that took place prior to the physical confrontation between Martin and Zimmerman is irrelevant and all that matters is that in the course of a fist fight which Zimmerman was losing, he shot and killed Martin. The rest of us believe that Zimmerman's actions led directly to the confrontation and his failure to act responsibly led to Martin's death and that he should have to pay for that negligence.

The two cases are not comparable.

Except, in the latter case you mention, "Zimmerman's actions led directly to the confrontation and his failure to act responsibly led to Martin's death," is not applicable, by law.Deal with it.

Exactly. He didn't invite Treyvon Martin to beat his ass just by the simple act of following him. Whoever threw the first punch was ultimately at fault for escalating the confrontation.

If, as a 17 year old, I was being followed through my neighborhood by someone I didn't recognize with an unknown intent, I might have felt threatened, and I might have thrown a punch or tried to disable my pursuer in order to get away.

I am aware of no legal jurisdiction wherein being followed is in itself legal justification for use of force.

iq_in_binary: ended up with a farking teenager on top of him in FULL FARKING MOUNT. Yeah, once you have a teenager on top of you in full mount, you've lost all claim to manliness, manhood, heterosexuality, ANYTHING that makes you a man or an adult.

Dude, TEENAGER. FULL MOUNT. Yeah, you're pathetic.

WAIT!!! Are we talking about the SAME Trayvon Martin here? Because if you're implying that TM was on top of GZ, beating the living shiat out of him (and you are), you are contradicting the core argument of the Race-Baiters and all they (pretend to) stand for.

You're farking the dog here, iq_in_binary. Don't you realize that in order for YOUR TEAM to have ANY credibility, they MUST portray poor little weak, helpless, innocent "Baby Tray" as a frightened, cowering, melanin-rich toddler who was ruthlessly gunned down by a VICIOUS COLD-BLOODED RACIST KNEEGROWE HUNTER???

You're pissing in the Race-Baiter's soup, iq_in_binary. Maybe you'd better STFU and go to bed before you make matters worse???

Hmmm???

iq_in_binary:Sure, he's not guilty, but he's not a man either.

And why, pray tell, should we be interested in your sexual proclivities?

cegorach:So one day soon, a large black man is going to spot Zimmerman on the street at night, follow him, then get right up in his face, acting aggressively.

Zimmerman's hand moves near his jacket, black guy shoots him dead.

Given it's common knowledge Zimmerman carries a weapon and has used it to kill, twitching so much as finger towards a carry location is enough justification to put the black gentlemen in fear of death or serious bodily harm.

He then walks a free man following a fair and equal trial.

That's how this will play out, right?

In other news, America is a nation sickeningly addicted to firearms. Seek help.

You live in Australia. Trust me, the rest of the world is glad to not have to deal with you inbred criminal types.

cegorach:So one day soon, a large black man is going to spot Zimmerman on the street at night, follow him, then get right up in his face, acting aggressively.

Zimmerman's hand moves near his jacket, black guy shoots him dead.

Given it's common knowledge Zimmerman carries a weapon and has used it to kill, twitching so much as finger towards a carry location is enough justification to put the black gentlemen in fear of death or serious bodily harm.

He then walks a free man following a fair and equal trial.

That's how this will play out, right?

In other news, America is a nation sickeningly addicted to firearms. Seek help.

If the hypothetical individual to whom you refer is identified as the instigator of the physical confrontation, then he will be criminally liable for Mr. Zimmerman's death.

cegorach:Given it's common knowledge Zimmerman carries a weapon and has used it to kill, twitching so much as finger towards a carry location is enough justification to put the black gentlemen in fear of death or serious bodily harm.

omeganuepsilon:Owangotang: He killed a 17 year old person because he was losing a fight.

Point?

You do know assault and battery, are crimes, right?http://www.assaultandbattery.org/florida/

When it didn't stop, and when no help came at his cries, he did what was legal and stopped the aggressor who initially broke the law.

Zimmerman wasn't a fighter; why do people keep insinuating there is something wrong with that? Internet Tough Guy syndrome? He was a fight ender though. I think some people are just jealous, think it's "cheating", see some "honor" in fist fighting, it's just barbaric.

Taylor Mental:Taylor Mental:ununcle: Ahh,, The last bastion of the intellectual coward. Attach a "-phobia" or "-ism" to the offending idealism.

Racism is not an "idealism," it's just plain misanthropia. There, I didn't use an -ism or -phobia to describe hate. Happy now?

I should think it would depend upon ones ideals. But I think a true racist by definition couldn't be a misanthropist (is that a word?) as he would hate everyone of all races equally. I on the other hand hate no one. Although, I can't say I like you very much. But I am happy regardless.

iq_in_binary: ended up with a farking teenager on top of him in FULL FARKING MOUNT. Yeah, once you have a teenager on top of you in full mount, you've lost all claim to manliness, manhood, heterosexuality, ANYTHING that makes you a man or an adult.

Dude, TEENAGER. FULL MOUNT. Yeah, you're pathetic.

WAIT!!! Are we talking about the SAME Trayvon Martin here? Because if you're implying that TM was on top of GZ, beating the living shiat out of him (and you are), you are contradicting the core argument of the Race-Baiters and all they (pretend to) stand for.

You're farking the dog here, iq_in_binary. Don't you realize that in order for YOUR TEAM to have ANY credibility, they MUST portray poor little weak, helpless, innocent "Baby Tray" as a frightened, cowering, melanin-rich toddler who was ruthlessly gunned down by a VICIOUS COLD-BLOODED RACIST KNEEGROWE HUNTER???

You're pissing in the Race-Baiter's soup, iq_in_binary. Maybe you'd better STFU and go to bed before you make matters worse???

Hmmm???

iq_in_binary: Sure, he's not guilty, but he's not a man either.

And why, pray tell, should we be interested in your sexual proclivities?

If TM wasn't so much of a threat, why the fark did an adult like GM shoot him?

GM's ENTIRE GOD DAMNED DEFENSE CENTERED AROUND HOW DANGEROUS THE TEENAGER ON TOP OF HIM IN A FULL MOUNT WAS.

So which is it. Either Trayvon was a threat to Zimmerman, or he wasn't.

MelGoesOnTour:cegorach: So one day soon, a large black man is going to spot Zimmerman on the street at night, follow him, then get right up in his face, acting aggressively.

Zimmerman's hand moves near his jacket, black guy shoots him dead.

Given it's common knowledge Zimmerman carries a weapon and has used it to kill, twitching so much as finger towards a carry location is enough justification to put the black gentlemen in fear of death or serious bodily harm.

He then walks a free man following a fair and equal trial.

That's how this will play out, right?

In other news, America is a nation sickeningly addicted to firearms. Seek help.

You live in Australia. Trust me, the rest of the world is glad to not have to deal with you inbred criminal types.

Actually the rest of the world prefers us to you obese, aggressive, torture-happy gun-worshippers with your sad hypocritical whining about your holy founding fathers and their FREEDOMZ.

Except for third world warlords, they think you guys are cool in a 'why do these idiots keep giving us money to kill people oh well' kind of way.