Although it can be argued that most young goalies ..........to varying degrees ........may show signs of struggling at times....look at Ryan Miller's numbers (http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=45065) and I think the numbers would not show any overt or consistent signs of "struggle".

Cam Ward? He won a Stanley Cup in his rookie year!

The frustration that some Habs fans have with Price - is an apparent lack of steady progress - some numbers (Ws vs Ls) may even indicate some regression in his game!

Compare that with how Halak progressed in his game and how he was able to perform at the most critical of times (i.e. playff hockey)!

If Suban plays this season anywhere near as well as he did in the playoffs - Habs fans will be cheering him, not booing him! Suban had to win a job - the starting job has been repeatedly handed to Price.......and what has he done with it?

And that's exactly where the problem is with fans like you, the same fans that booed Price because he didn't get a Win but was good enough to be the third star of the game.

W-L is a team stats. Look at Theodore W-L stats, its way better than Price but is he really way better than Price? No, far from it.

"Then why Theo has better W-L than Price then" you may be wondering. Simple, one of the reason being offensive support. Price did not have much offensive support when he got the start last season. The hater will not take that into consideration, ignore it or simply don't understand but it is one of the reason why doesn't more wins than that.

I think around 80% or maybe even more of Price's losses, the team did not give him an offensive support more than 2 goals. So in order to win those games, he had to have a goal against average under 2, something you don't see often in this league anymore.

Although it can be argued that most young goalies ..........to varying degrees ........may show signs of struggling at times....look at Ryan Miller's numbers (http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=45065) and I think the numbers would not show any overt or consistent signs of "struggle".

Cam Ward? He won a Stanley Cup in his rookie year!

The frustration that some Habs fans have with Price - is an apparent lack of steady progress - some numbers (Ws vs Ls) may even indicate some regression in his game!

Compare that with how Halak progressed in his game and how he was able to perform at the most critical of times (i.e. playff hockey)!

If Suban plays this season anywhere near as well as he did in the playoffs - Habs fans will be cheering him, not booing him! Suban had to win a job - the starting job has been repeatedly handed to Price.......and what has he done with it?

His numbers the 2 years prior to last year resemble Price's stats from last year (GAA & sv. %). As for Cam Ward, just like Price, he had some early success, then struggled afterwards....

As far as progress, Carey Price has progressed, the problem is he set the bar so high his rookie season, that people expect too much waaaayyyy too soon.

Here's another example...Steve Mason, go on the Jackets boards and see if they've thrown the towel in his case already.

As for Subban, he was awesome during the playoffs...but to expect him to carry that into the season and sustain ALL YEAR in what will essentially be his rookie season is completely unrealistic.

Contrary to popular belief, ups AND downs are the normal process for players who are developping. You can learn as much in defeat as you can in success

And that's exactly where the problem is with fans like you, the same fans that booed Price because he didn't get a Win but was good enough to be the third star of the game.

W-L is a team stats. Look at Theodore W-L stats, its way better than Price but is he really way better than Price? No, far from it.

"Then why Theo has better W-L than Price then" you may be wondering. Simple, one of the reason being offensive support. Price did not have much offensive support when he got the start last season. The hater will not take that into consideration, ignore it or simply don't understand but it is one of the reason why doesn't more wins than that.

I think around 80% or maybe even more of Price's losses, the team did not give him an offensive support more than 2 goals. So in order to win those games, he had to have a goal against average under 2, something you don't see often in this league anymore.

It's good that you set me straight on........fans like me! You claim that "I booed Price" - so when did I boo Price??

Your comparison of Price vs Theo holds no water - the 2 played behind different teams - but Halak and Price played behind the same offense and defense - results?

THERE IS NO COMPARISON - Halak made the most of his limited opportunities, and Price - just got the starting job handed back to him - he didn't have to earn it!

3) No, a lot of fans still want to see him fail, from East it will be Miller, Lundqvist and Brodeur.

4) No, but Brodeur maybe should have stayed at home.

A couple of questions regarding your win projections:

Do you expect a goalie with 40 wins and a win percentage like that to end up with stats as "average" as that? That would suggest that Montreal will be on of the tightest defenses in the league for the vast majority of the season, and that other teams will rely on capitalizing on their best chances and hope that 3 goals on 30 shots will be enough. And 16 wins in the playoffs... you're predicting a Cup win here?!

It's good that you set me straight on........fans like me! You claim that "I booed Price" - so when did I boo Price??

Your comparison of Price vs Theo holds no water - the 2 played behind different teams - but Halak and Price played behind the same offense and defense - results?

THERE IS NO COMPARISON - Halak made the most of his limited opportunities, and Price - just got the starting job handed back to him - he didn't have to earn it!

facts are indeed facts!

Yeah sorry about that. For some reason, I have mistaken you for someone else, a Price-hater, which is stupid. I shouldn't have pointed pointed you.

As for the comparison with Theo, I know its irrelevant but for some fans that don't understand hockey, for them more win = better goalie.

But for the Halak and Price comparison, no doubt Halak was better than Price last season, so its normal that Halak has a better W-L stats, but with a better offensive support, Carey would have won more games because it was proven that when Halak played, the team scored overall on more goal than when Price starts. One goal make a good difference.

Do you expect a goalie with 40 wins and a win percentage like that to end up with stats as "average" as that? That would suggest that Montreal will be on of the tightest defenses in the league for the vast majority of the season, and that other teams will rely on capitalizing on their best chances and hope that 3 goals on 30 shots will be enough. And 16 wins in the playoffs... you're predicting a Cup win here?!

Did I miss a smilie or something?

Well....
It's actually Roy's number with the Avs from ten years ago.
I dont think Price (or any goalie) would replicate those behind the Habs of 2010-2011.

But I do think Price will have a solid season, and why not top it off with a cup?!

It's not that farfetched for a win record to have SV% and GAA like that.

If you look at Brodeur this year, 48 wins with .916% and 2.24. in 05-06, .911 with 43 wins.

Not comparing Price to Brodeur at all but just pointing out that low SV% does not equate poor W-L record automatically.

Do I expect those stats from Price, not really. But its nice to hope I guess.

Realistically, 30 to 35 wins with 0.918 SV%.

No, you are right.
Look at Niemi, 26 W in 39 games while going 2.25 and .912 SV%.
But neither Niemi nor Brodeur played behind the Habs who gave up a whole lot of more shots and scoring opportunities.
Price hade the same SV% as Niemi and comparable to Brodeur but nowhere near the same amount of W.

But I guess we dont have to go any deeper into that.
We pretty much agree.

The whole Price didn't get much help/Halak got more help argument is a giant cope out. They both had the same team playing in front of them.

Those that are huge fans of Price tend to say that we didn't get carried by Halak and that it was a team effort. But then they turn around and, with a straight face, will tell you that Price didn't get much help last season. To me this makes absolutely no sense. It's a team effort or it isn't. We got carried by Halak or we weren't. If we weren't, then it was a team effort, and it was the same team effort in front of Price whether you want to accept it or not.

ECH2 : We got carried by Halak during season + playoffsPricefan4lyfe : No dude, it was a team effortECH2 : If it was a team effort then why were the habs on pace for a 26 wins 40 losses season with Price in between the pipes. I mean, I thought Price played well last season didn't he ?Pricefan4lyfe : Well yes he was great but the habs didn't show up to play for PriceECH2 : Even after it was brought up in the medias ? I mean, I remember distinctly the subject being brought up, wouldn't the players have provided extra care to play the same for Price after that ?Pricefan4lyfe : Well.. team effort man, just go cheer for the blues if you like Halak so much.ECH2 : I don't even...

The whole Price didn't get much help/Halak got more help argument is a giant cope out. They both had the same team playing in front of them.

Those that are huge fans of Price tend to say that we didn't get carried by Halak and that it was a team effort. But then they turn around and, with a straight face, will tell you that Price didn't get much help last season. To me this makes absolutely no sense. It's a team effort or it isn't. We got carried by Halak or we weren't. If we weren't, then it was a team effort, and it was the same team effort in front of Price whether you want to accept it or not.

I don't think it's as black-and-white as both sides (Team Carey and Team Jaro) to believe. One problem the team had for the whole season was the first period, you know, when they were getting outshot like crazy? They were in the bottom 5 of the NHL when the opponents scored first and trailer after 1 period. In a lot of Price's losses, he played well but he gave up the first goal which in turn made the Habs play on their heels and lose, even if Price almost always came back strong after these goals (and 4-5 of them were real ****ing flukes too).

Note that this is "behavior" also happened with Halak in the net and during the playoffs. Habs won most of the games Cammy and Gionta gave them an early lead. And if I remember well, Halak was a FRIKKIN' stone wall during first periods and the team came alive in period 2 and 3. The Canadiens were 10th in the NHL in wins after leading first and one of the worst after trailing. Just shows ya how important that first goal was.

So where is the line between Carey Price's responsibility of letting in the first goal of the game and his teammates's responsibility for sitting on a 1 goal deficit early in the games and spending the first periods talking about LOST's season 6?

If there's a single thing I hope Price improves at this year it's not his "mental strength", glove hand or diet. It's this one : better first periods. He has to give his team more chances to take the lead. His teammates and coaches could learn it too because they won't do well enough if they dont play 60 minutes.

ECH2 : We got carried by Halak during season + playoffsPricefan4lyfe : No dude, it was a team effortECH2 : If it was a team effort then why were the habs on pace for a 26 wins 40 losses season with Price in between the pipes. I mean, I thought Price played well last season didn't he ?Pricefan4lyfe : Well yes he was great but the habs didn't show up to play for PriceECH2 : Even after it was brought up in the medias ? I mean, I remember distinctly the subject being brought up, wouldn't the players have provided extra care to play the same for Price after that ?Pricefan4lyfe : Well.. team effort man, just go cheer for the blues if you like Halak so much.ECH2 : I don't even...

Cool story bro. Man you sound genius in that conversation. Props to you!!!

Seriously, this thread has two pages and i don't see much delusional Price fan saying the things you said.

I, myself have said that Price did not get the offensive support like Halak did. I never said the team actually played better or not with either goalie on net. Just one happened to have less goals support that did not help his W-L record.

I don't see the Halak was not the main reason why we went far in the playoffs argument in this thread. Do not start an argument when there's not. As far, in this thread its just people saying we shouldn't throw a towel on a young goalie that soon. Almost every young goalies are inconsistent in their first years. Doesn't mean he is a bust or anything. If you want to start another Price Vs. Halak debate, go make your own thread. This thread has nothing to do with it.

Christ, is there any way to support our young player without being tagged as a Pricefan4lyfe or fanboy?

Cool story bro. Man you sound genius in that conversation. Props to you!!!

Seriously, this thread has two pages and i don't see much delusional Price fan saying the things you said.

I, myself have said that Price did not get the offensive support like Halak did. I never said the team actually played better or not with either goalie on net. Just one happened to have less goals support that did not help his W-L record.

I don't see the Halak was not the main reason why we went far in the playoffs argument in this thread. Do not start an argument when there's not. As far, in this thread its just people saying we shouldn't throw a towel on a young goalie that soon. Almost every young goalies are inconsistent in their first years. Doesn't mean he is a bust or anything. If you want to start another Price Vs. Halak debate, go make your own thread. This thread has nothing to do with it.

Christ, is there any way to support our young player without being tagged as a Pricefan4lyfe or fanboy?

I wasn't targetting you specifically, if I had, I would have quoted you. But your post did remind me that a lot of people say that last spring was a team effort and refuse to consider the habs as a team got carried by goaltending for most of the season and playoffs. And it follows that some of the people who think that are Price fans who also believe that Price didn't get much help. There's a contradiction here to me.

It must have felt like I was targetting you but I honestly wasn't. I apologize.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etienne

I don't think it's as black-and-white as both sides (Team Carey and Team Jaro) to believe. One problem the team had for the whole season was the first period, you know, when they were getting outshot like crazy? They were in the bottom 5 of the NHL when the opponents scored first and trailer after 1 period. In a lot of Price's losses, he played well but he gave up the first goal which in turn made the Habs play on their heels and lose, even if Price almost always came back strong after these goals (and 4-5 of them were real ****ing flukes too).

Note that this is "behavior" also happened with Halak in the net and during the playoffs. Habs won most of the games Cammy and Gionta gave them an early lead. And if I remember well, Halak was a FRIKKIN' stone wall during first periods and the team came alive in period 2 and 3. The Canadiens were 10th in the NHL in wins after leading first and one of the worst after trailing. Just shows ya how important that first goal was.

So where is the line between Carey Price's responsibility of letting in the first goal of the game and his teammates's responsibility for sitting on a 1 goal deficit early in the games and spending the first periods talking about LOST's season 6?

If there's a single thing I hope Price improves at this year it's not his "mental strength", glove hand or diet. It's this one : better first periods. He has to give his team more chances to take the lead. His teammates and coaches could learn it too because they won't do well enough if they dont play 60 minutes.

Well, I personally believe that a big part of the reason why Halak got more goal support is because of his play. A goalie can dictate a game with big saves at key times. First goal is obviously important, but keeping that lead once you get it is also important. It helps boost your team's morale, and makes the other team take more risks to tie it up which leads to more goals for your own team.

And that's kind of where I wanted to go with this in the first place. Instead of it being an excuse for Price's record, maybe we should start thinking the team didn't play all that well last season and got bailed out by exceptional performances from Halak.

I don't think it has much to do with Price's confidence but rather the team's confidence in his performances. This team isn't an offensive juggernaut unless we're fully healthy and clicking (that means AK and Pouliot looking like legit top 6 wingers too). If the habs don't click offensively, I don't think Price can do what Halak did last year, confidence or not. We have to play better offensively than last season if Price is to have a good season.