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enThu, 22 Feb 2018 05:29:50 GMTThu, 22 Feb 2018 05:29:50 GMTRev9113-113-1Coffeehouse - iPhone 5Thinner, faster, lighter, taller screen. It looks nice but I'm not all that happy with the new connector making my 4 docks obsolete. But I'd have to get a new ProClip dock for my car anyways as my current one form fits the 3GS, and I don't use 2 of the docks all that often. I could get by with using the included charging cable and WiFI sync at home. The reversible design of the Lightning connector would at least make plugging it in less fiddly.]]>https://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/32ba8bd5d0e24cefb4c3a0ca01650ece#32ba8bd5d0e24cefb4c3a0ca01650ece
Wed, 12 Sep 2012 21:40:00 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/32ba8bd5d0e24cefb4c3a0ca01650ece#32ba8bd5d0e24cefb4c3a0ca01650eceDCMonkey113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/DCMonkey/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5It's most definitely yawn-worthy. When's the Lumia 920 coming out?]]>https://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/bd6595e02dd1468d8f5ca0ca016bf818#bd6595e02dd1468d8f5ca0ca016bf818
Wed, 12 Sep 2012 22:05:10 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/bd6595e02dd1468d8f5ca0ca016bf818#bd6595e02dd1468d8f5ca0ca016bf818cbae113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/cbae/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5Definitely not what I'd call "the best thing to happen to iPhone since iPhone". A bunch of nice improvements, but that's pretty much it. And -100 points for changing connector and not using a micro USB like everybody else.

It's the second underwhelming iPhone release in a row, and the aggressive pricing seems to reflect this; I wonder if this is an effect of the lack of Steve Jobs at the helm or it's just that there's only so much you can improve in a smartphone these days.

I wonder if this is an effect of the lack of Steve Jobs at the helm or it's just that there's only so much you can improve in a smartphone these days.

I think it's mostly the latter. There's no point in bumping the pixel density of the display, and the weight and thickness are fast approaching the point of diminishing returns. Apple's even been relegated to lying about the thinness. They're calling the iPhone 5 the "thinnest smartphone in the world", but it's clearly not the case.

Spec-wise, everything in the iPhone 5 could have been achieved when the iPhone 4S came out. It's becoming apparent they're holding features back just so they have an excuse to release the next version. You can bet the iPhone 6 is going to have NFC and wireless charging, even though they downplayed the usefulness of those features today.

Any time Apple hates on a feature idea, it's pretty much certain that they are going to have it in the next iteration.

Apple never changes:

"Not Invented/Implemented Here" == Bad Idea

"Invented/Implemented Here" == Genius Idea

Larger iPhone was a bad idea at iPhone4S launch... now it's a brilliant idea with iPhone5.

NFC and Wireless charging are bad ideas with iPhone5... they'll be the hot thing for iPhone6.

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Wed, 12 Sep 2012 23:18:43 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/20cdda9d0bea4141b09da0ca01802bb0#20cdda9d0bea4141b09da0ca01802bb0Elmer113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/elmer/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5What are you guys talking about? If Apple went with a microUSB connector like every other phone manufacturer out there, they won't be able to charge you $$ for their proprietary cables and adaptors, and it would be easier for customers to switch to alternative phones later down the line without obsoleting their accessories.

[/sarcasm]

Supposedly the new connector doesn't even pass analog audio/video like the old one did, so other than being able to connect it with any orientation, it has zero other advantage whatsoever. Well other than what is mentioned above. This is innovation people!

Larger iPhone was a bad idea at iPhone4S launch... now it's a brilliant idea with iPhone5.

NFC and Wireless charging are bad ideas with iPhone5... they'll be the hot thing for iPhone6.

Given the naming they've done over the years... iPhone6 probably won't be seen until 2014... in 2013 I expect we'll see the iPhone5S (ie the incremental improvement over the previous years phone design).

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Thu, 13 Sep 2012 13:23:07 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/e7469e0948ce4c1b9acea0cb00dc9541#e7469e0948ce4c1b9acea0cb00dc9541Herbie Smith113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Dr Herbie/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5@Dr Herbie:I think I heard that it is a legal requirement for them in order to be able to sell iPhones in Europe.

@Dr Herbie:I think I heard that it is a legal requirement for them in order to be able to sell iPhones in Europe.

Anyone confirm that?

Yes, this is the legal standard over here.

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Thu, 13 Sep 2012 13:39:51 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/977381fdff1e4e18b896a0cb00e12eb9#977381fdff1e4e18b896a0cb00e12eb9Gio113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/giovanni/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5I love that connector. I personally can't stand fiddling with the micro-usb connector on my phone. I turn it over at least three or four times.

My GPS is even worse. I'm suspecting TomTom of making it deliberately hard to plug in without actually grabbing the device, turning it upside down and looking at the socket, in order to prevent you from plugging your device in while driving.

If it serves no other purpose than that (did they really drop the whole video/audio output over the connector thing? That seems... odd) then yeah, it's not much of an advantage over micro-usb, but still. I guess I just wish USB was orientation-agnostic.

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Thu, 13 Sep 2012 14:07:45 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/ceaf3ab058c34404a88ca0cb00e8d884#ceaf3ab058c34404a88ca0cb00e8d884Bas113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Bas/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5And the funny thing is... It is still just USB 2, so it doesn't even have any speed advantage over microUSB.

This is a perfect example of how Apple milks its customers just because those customers will just accept it and pay up. You can even see some of them defending this move in various forums, really strange.

I love that connector. I personally can't stand fiddling with the micro-usb connector on my phone. I turn it over at least three or four times.

I'm not following. You have a 50% chance of needing to turn it over just once. If you struggle to get it in because you can't align it properly due to not being able to see the port properly, then how is the new connector going to solve that particular problem?

You try to plug it in casually, doesn't work. So you flip it over and try agan. Doesn't work either, so you go back to the first position and use a little more determination. If it still doesn't fit, then you flip it a third time and press real hard.

In the few occasions where that doesn't work either, you stop the car and turn on the light.

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Thu, 13 Sep 2012 14:29:30 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/d7177219ae9643b9ad36a0cb00eed1e0#d7177219ae9643b9ad36a0cb00eed1e0Blue Ink113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Blue Ink/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5@Blue Ink: Spot on. Version two of "Meh". Gotta wonder how long the brand can hold on to customer loyalty. Seems like a opening may have opened up for Microsoft. Couldn't ask for better timing than this with W8 right around the corner. If Apple had a clue they would have double-downed on enterprise integration and features that would help secure the iPad in enterprise use.]]>https://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/9e573ec98fa647429723a0cb00eee737#9e573ec98fa647429723a0cb00eee737
Thu, 13 Sep 2012 14:29:49 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/9e573ec98fa647429723a0cb00eee737#9e573ec98fa647429723a0cb00eee737DeathByVisualStudio113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/DeathByVisualStudio/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5

You try to plug it in casually, doesn't work. So you flip it over and try agan. Doesn't work either, so you go back to the first position and use a little more determination. If it still doesn't fit, then you flip it a third time and press real hard.

In the few occasions where that doesn't work either, you stop the car and turn on the light.

Exactly this.

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Thu, 13 Sep 2012 14:44:20 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/b2508551ce7249d5aa8ca0cb00f2e444#b2508551ce7249d5aa8ca0cb00f2e444Bas113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Bas/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5Wasn't the iPad mini supposed to be revealed yesterday? In the wake of that "$200 Surface rumor is spread by the competition to make the eventual price seem expensive" rumor, could the iPad Mini have been a rumor spread by the competition to make yesterday seem lacklustre? In hindsight, they needn't have bothered.]]>https://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/2ca4f530b3854cdabdb1a0cb00f395b0#2ca4f530b3854cdabdb1a0cb00f395b0
Thu, 13 Sep 2012 14:46:51 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/2ca4f530b3854cdabdb1a0cb00f395b0#2ca4f530b3854cdabdb1a0cb00f395b0Bas113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Bas/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5

I am not sure what you mean. I can easily tell which is the top side from the bottom side of the micro USB. I can even feel it if I want to. I have never failed to plug it on first attempt.

Not saying you have bad eyes or can't feel it with your fingers, my mom did the zombie way until she broke her phone. So, I can understand what you are coming from.

The manufacture can easily add blind man's dot text on the rubber side of the plug. And have different color on the top side. Both are very easy to achieve instead of relying the two dumps on the metal part.

It's the second underwhelming iPhone release in a row, and the aggressive pricing seems to reflect this; I wonder if this is an effect of the lack of Steve Jobs at the helm or it's just that there's only so much you can improve in a smartphone these days.

But the *first* underwhelming iPhone release went on to be their best selling phone, and that had even *fewer* changes than the iPhone it succeeded. As far as I can see, the prices have remained the same: a hair's width above 'outrageous'. Given the deal they get on components, they can certainly afford to shave off a few quid.

Steve Jobs? The time Apple takes to design a product means that he not only was hands-on on this model, but also the 'S' version that will be released next year.

Haven't had a look at the cable, but if it can only be used for syncing and charging then I can see a lot of car owners switching to a different phone.

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Thu, 13 Sep 2012 15:25:59 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/be492128cea54ec89031a0cb00fe5456#be492128cea54ec89031a0cb00fe5456Ray7113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Ray7/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5@giovanni: they will let you sell it with an adapter.]]>https://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/16658b84480041f5b8eda0cb00ff22be#16658b84480041f5b8eda0cb00ff22be
Thu, 13 Sep 2012 15:28:55 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/16658b84480041f5b8eda0cb00ff22be#16658b84480041f5b8eda0cb00ff22beMaddus Mattus113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Maddus Mattus/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5@magicalclick: I can see it, sure. If I look at my phone and then at the connector, I can switch it on in one go. But that doesn't work in the dark, or when I'm in some sort of awkward position, and it takes effort, stupid as that may sound. I just want to be able to plug it in without first examining both connector and socket.

I can't feel the shape of the connector with my fingers. I could with mini USB, but not with micro. Also, it's impossible to feel for the shape of the socket because the phone's bezel is higher than the socket. So even if I could feel the way the connector is oriented, I have no idea how it's supposed to go in my phone.

Basically it's just a lot of fiddling. It needs to be as easy as plugging a device into an electrical outlet. Like plugging a charger into a laptop. Headphones into whatever takes headphones. All these devices have plugs that go in upside down, for the exact reason that they are easy to plug in that way. Why does a USB charger have to be different?

You try to plug it in casually, doesn't work. So you flip it over and try agan. Doesn't work either, so you go back to the first position and use a little more determination. If it still doesn't fit, then you flip it a third time and press real hard.

In the few occasions where that doesn't work either, you stop the car and turn on the light.

That's what I said. The new Apple connector isn't going to help you align it up any better than a microUSB. It's only going to give you a better chance if finally getting it in. IOW, it doesn't help at all with the alignment. Might cut down slightly on the amount of time you struggle, but seriously, that justifies a whole new proprietary connector that will cost all Apple customers extra $$ and require an extra converter to hook up to any standard accessories?

Sorry, I just don't buy that kind of justification for something that was clearly done by Apple to gouge more $$ from its customers. And you fall for it?

I too don't see and feel the "shape" of the plug. The upside of the plug is rough and downside is smooth. I can easily see and feel the bumps. I guess you are just having crappy wire because both my HTC and my dad's Samsung micro USB have the same bumps on the upside.

Basically it's just a lot of fiddling. It needs to be as easy as plugging a device into an electrical outlet. Like plugging a charger into a laptop. Headphones into whatever takes headphones. All these devices have plugs that go in upside down, for the exact reason that they are easy to plug in that way. Why does a USB charger have to be different?

I have issues with plugging in micro USB cords as well, so I'm not trying to disagree with your overall sentiment, but you missed the mark with mentioning electrical plugs... at least in the US. Some cords can be plugged in in either orientation, but most cannot. Most are polarized plugs and can be put in in only one orientation, and others are grounded as well which really forces a single orientation. This isn't a real issue however for several reasons: the plugs are large enough that it's easy to tell what orientation you need, if you get it wrong it's obvious (unlike with micro USB where you don't know if you're just struggling to plug it in), and you rarely need to plug/unplug most devices once they are plugged in. So, yeah, despite your bad example, I fully agree with you.

You asked about the iPad mini. The speculation for weeks has been that Apple would have a separate event to announce that device at a later date (http://daringfireball.net/2012/08/sharing_the_stage keeping in mind that Gruber was only speculating, I link to him only because he was the first to publish this "rumor", but since then several others chimed in with more than speculation). No one was really expecting an iPad mini announcement here, but most pundits expect an announcement in October. And yes, all of these announcements (from every company) are being carefully timed in order to impact the announcements from other companies. It's making for some interesting times this year in the lead-up to the holiday buying season.

I do think Apple faltered, and have left themselves open here, but someone still has to take advantage of that. The Lumia 920 seems to be getting more buzz after the iPhone 5 announcement than it did after their own announcement (for that matter, it's getting more buzz than the iPhone 5 as well), but even still, Nokia has pretty well botched things here. They need to recover quickly to take advantage of Apple's slip. Or one of the Android folks could be the one to take advantage here. In the end, though Apple has such a big lead right now that all anyone can hope for is to close the gap. The iPhone 5 is still going to sell extremely well, and Apple is almost certain to retain the lead... at least for now.

That's what I said. The new Apple connector isn't going to help you align it up any better than a microUSB.

No, but that wasn't the problem. The problem is not knowing if it's a matter of alignment or a matter of having the connector upside-down, which causes needless turning. With a connector that can be inserted both ways, you -know- the problem is alignment so you fiddle about with it for a second longer until it works.

Might cut down slightly on the amount of time you struggle, but seriously, that justifies a whole new proprietary connector that will cost all Apple customers extra $$ and require an extra converter to hook up to any standard accessories?

It's really whatever committee designed micro USB's fault for giving Apple this opportunity for creating yet another proprietary connector. Many, many connectors were designed to be insertable either way, why couldn't USB be the same way?

Sorry, I just don't buy that kind of justification for something that was clearly done by Apple to gouge more $$ from its customers. And you fall for it?

I'm saying a connector that doesn't require a "right side up" is convenient and would take away one of my many annoyances with smartphones. Whatever motive Apple may have for it is irrelevant to me since I'm not buying their phone.

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Thu, 13 Sep 2012 17:36:13 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/e82b63edaae04b4eade3a0cb01221965#e82b63edaae04b4eade3a0cb01221965Bas113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Bas/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5Micro-USB is certainly an annoying connector and doubtless could have been designed much better. That doesn't really change the fact that Apple's new connector is much more to do with keeping iPhone accessories exclusive to the iPhone than any particular desire to make better technology. It's all about the lock-in factor.]]>https://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/a9d925fb52f242a39752a0cb0131be18#a9d925fb52f242a39752a0cb0131be18
Thu, 13 Sep 2012 18:33:10 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/a9d925fb52f242a39752a0cb0131be18#a9d925fb52f242a39752a0cb0131be18AndyC113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/AndyC/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5I am confused, is HTC surround using micro-USB? Because I can easily plug it with eyes closed in single try. I must.be using some kind of magical micro-USB or it is not micro-USB? ]]>https://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/1c86499e162843f589b2a0cb0140aaae#1c86499e162843f589b2a0cb0140aaae
Thu, 13 Sep 2012 19:27:30 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/1c86499e162843f589b2a0cb0140aaae#1c86499e162843f589b2a0cb0140aaaemagicalclick113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/magicalclick/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5@magicalclick: Maybe you're just more nimble fingered than us old gits! Even if I stop and look at the shape of the connector to make sure it's oriented right I find fitting the connector on both my HTC Mozart 7 and Kindle to be a fiddly and awkward experience.]]>https://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/9bd57110fe4e4a2f94a6a0cb0143ad89#9bd57110fe4e4a2f94a6a0cb0143ad89
Thu, 13 Sep 2012 19:38:28 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/9bd57110fe4e4a2f94a6a0cb0143ad89#9bd57110fe4e4a2f94a6a0cb0143ad89AndyC113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/AndyC/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5@AndyC:

This is where I am confused. Why say shape? They are both rectangles. Just different textures.

I have no problems with micro USB, but I do have to look at it first to make I insert it correctly, and even then it doesn't go in smoothly (LG Quantum).

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Thu, 13 Sep 2012 20:14:48 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/dc9ef6f221e844a38afea0cb014da7d9#dc9ef6f221e844a38afea0cb014da7d9Scott113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/spivonious/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5Different connectors and different cables can make a big differenc here. The cable that came with my Focus had a design that made it easy to tell the orientation without looking at it, and somehow also helped to make it easy to align in almost any plug I've tried it on. On the other hand, nearly every other micro USB cable I've had to deal with has been a pain.]]>https://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/6a030b3aa00b44e39649a0cb015cb045#6a030b3aa00b44e39649a0cb015cb045
Thu, 13 Sep 2012 21:09:32 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/6a030b3aa00b44e39649a0cb015cb045#6a030b3aa00b44e39649a0cb015cb045William Kempf113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/wkempf/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5@magicalclick: It's not quite rectangular, there's a slightly trapezoidal shape to the end of the plug (otherwise it would fit either way round!) I can't say I've ever known a usb cable to have a particularly distinguishing texture on either side. The Kindle one in front of me right now does have a slightly etched in USB logo on one side, I suppose, although I couldn't tell you off hand whether that's supposed to be on the top or the bottom - so I just end up comparing the shape of the plug and socket to ensure I've oriented them right.

And all of this is one of the reasons that, as silly as it sounds, I'm quite attracted to those Nokia wireless charging pillow things...

That's what I said. The new Apple connector isn't going to help you align it up any better than a microUSB. It's only going to give you a better chance if finally getting it in. IOW, it doesn't help at all with the alignment. Might cut down slightly on the amount of time you struggle, but seriously, that justifies a whole new proprietary connector that will cost all Apple customers extra $$ and require an extra converter to hook up to any standard accessories?

Sorry, I just don't buy that kind of justification for something that was clearly done by Apple to gouge more $$ from its customers. And you fall for it?

I'd have to try it first, of course, but I suspect that removing the orientation uncertainty is going to make a difference. Once you know that the orientation doesn't matter, you can just fiddle and apply more force without worrying about breaking anything (which is the reason for all the flipping I described)

This said, I agree: as I said in my first post Apple should have gone with what everybody else is using. The convenience of being able to use whatever charger or cable is laying around, or leech an emergency charge outweighs any improvement. I wouldn't be surprised if this attempt at lock-in backfired on them.

But the *first* underwhelming iPhone release went on to be their best selling phone, and that had even *fewer* changes than the iPhone it succeeded. As far as I can see, the prices have remained the same: a hair's width above 'outrageous'. Given the deal they get on components, they can certainly afford to shave off a few quid.

Steve Jobs? The time Apple takes to design a product means that he not only was hands-on on this model, but also the 'S' version that will be released next year.

Haven't had a look at the cable, but if it can only be used for syncing and charging then I can see a lot of car owners switching to a different phone.

Nobody said that the iPhone 5 is half bad, or that the 4S was; what they lacked, IMHO, is any wow factor at launch. Siri went close, but expectations were just too high for that to suffice. This time there isn't even that; it's a great phone, but I would be hard pressed to find a single reason (*the* single reason) to want one. Except it's an iPhone, of course, and that will be more than enough for a lot of people.

Are you refering to the two dumppy thing on the plug to lock it in place? If you don't have it, te plug will slide out very easily due to lack of dumppy thingy.

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Fri, 14 Sep 2012 00:16:24 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/ac392ec8b3d54d409795a0cc000481a9#ac392ec8b3d54d409795a0cc000481a9magicalclick113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/magicalclick/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5]]>https://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/a2ced88e91dc45e6ba14a0cc0024f5c3#a2ced88e91dc45e6ba14a0cc0024f5c3
Fri, 14 Sep 2012 02:14:34 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/a2ced88e91dc45e6ba14a0cc0024f5c3#a2ced88e91dc45e6ba14a0cc0024f5c3magicalclick113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/magicalclick/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5Am I the only one that thinks that aluminum back is absolutely hideous? Like really, the Sectera Edge looks way more attractive! Why wouldn't they make the whole back aluminum or keep it all glass?

Definitely not what I'd call "the best thing to happen to iPhone since iPhone". A bunch of nice improvements, but that's pretty much it. And -100 points for changing connector and not using a micro USB like everybody else.

It's the second underwhelming iPhone release in a row, and the aggressive pricing seems to reflect this; I wonder if this is an effect of the lack of Steve Jobs at the helm or it's just that there's only so much you can improve in a smartphone these days.

I hate micro USB, being small and short it makes it easier to trash the phone, every time you get the orientation of the connector wrong, you can scratch the phone.

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Fri, 14 Sep 2012 07:57:42 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/52312468d5ae48f8bd2aa0cc0083352f#52312468d5ae48f8bd2aa0cc0083352fIon Todirel113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Ion Todirel/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5@magicalclick: Fun fact: if that's up, then on my phone the "up" side of the connector needs to go towards the back of the phone. For my camera it's towards the front of the camera. In other words: I need to remember where "up" is for every Micro USB device I own. Whereas if it was reversible, I wouldn't need to go through this.]]>https://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/50dba5374247456ca713a0cc00b6d3e9#50dba5374247456ca713a0cc00b6d3e9
Fri, 14 Sep 2012 11:05:39 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/50dba5374247456ca713a0cc00b6d3e9#50dba5374247456ca713a0cc00b6d3e9Bas113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Bas/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5

Are you refering to the two dumppy thing on the plug to lock it in place? If you don't have it, te plug will slide out very easily due to lack of dumppy thingy.

No, I mean the plug socket is shaped kinda like this:

-----------| |\---------/

So there is very definitely a top and a bottom. Except it's too small a difference to be immeadiately obvious and it also never seems to be consistent which way should be the top or bottom between devices.

(*sigh* why does C9 make it so f**king difficult to just stick in a quick bit of ASCII Art!)

Oh sorry, didn't thought of camera. Never used USB on camera, I have SD-HD card and battery charger. Also I rarely use my camera. My bad. To be honest, I only use my phone, and my tiny brain can remember the up side for one device.

Fair enough. They've adopted pretty much the same model since the iPhone was launched: Add the new model at the top price, shift all the others down the price band, lowest spec model falls off the end. The free model is now the iPhone4

Nobody said that the iPhone 5 is half bad, or that the 4S was; what they lacked, IMHO, is any wow factor at launch. Siri went close, but expectations were just too high for that to suffice. This time there isn't even that; it's a great phone, but I would be hard pressed to find a single reason (*the* single reason) to want one. Except it's an iPhone, of course, and that will be more than enough for a lot of people.

Some will go for the bigger screen, the inclusion of LTE, the upgraded memory, the faster processor, the new pancake flat unibody construction...

The problem is that there really is not much else you can do with a phone. They could have added wireless charging, but they couldn't really see the advantages. If you could just charge across the air then I could see the need, but you still need to plug something into a wall and have your phone near it. You're still tethered, so the only difference is that I can't answer the phone while it's charging, and taking longer and wasting more power for the same result.

Lack of NFC is a different matter. Though again, I'm not sure the uptake is that high, and it would require finding room for yet another chip. On the other hand, Bluetooth 4.0 supports Near Field Communication and supports single-tap pairing/synching and very low power consumption. They're probably just going to go with that, since that's already built in.

Chances are I'll get one when my current contract runs out.

Though I have no idea what's going on with the cabling. Sounds like a disaster.

Like really, the Sectera Edge looks way more attractive! Why wouldn't they make the whole back aluminum or keep it all glass?

The glass back was too delicate. Lots of users cracked it. The glass back was a terrible idea.

]]>https://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/5a6cb93c1e7a4d7cb812a0cc00ea9eef#5a6cb93c1e7a4d7cb812a0cc00ea9eef
Fri, 14 Sep 2012 14:14:13 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/5a6cb93c1e7a4d7cb812a0cc00ea9eef#5a6cb93c1e7a4d7cb812a0cc00ea9eefRay7113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Ray7/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5I also don't find this something valuable and important the samsung xs2 will have a massive technology changes..]]>https://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/33365fe8aae74f1db622a0cc00f7884d#33365fe8aae74f1db622a0cc00f7884d
Fri, 14 Sep 2012 15:01:14 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/33365fe8aae74f1db622a0cc00f7884d#33365fe8aae74f1db622a0cc00f7884dgogonow113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/gogonow/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5@Bas: I think reversable would be better but not at the cost of having to rebuy everything. The future is going to be all wireless everything anyway. The 920 is just the beginning. Wireless charging and wireless sync and NFC. Eventually they will just stop putting ports on a phone all together.]]>https://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/24f4267fbf6447ea80dfa0cc00fe74b1#24f4267fbf6447ea80dfa0cc00fe74b1
Fri, 14 Sep 2012 15:26:26 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/24f4267fbf6447ea80dfa0cc00fe74b1#24f4267fbf6447ea80dfa0cc00fe74b1JeremyJ113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/JeremyJ/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5@JeremyJ: I could go for that. With a little wireless charging and NFC sprinkled around, you could go a long way towards the magic we've seen in some of the Microsoft concept videos.]]>https://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/142220cce7dd45cdbefca0cc01082971#142220cce7dd45cdbefca0cc01082971
Fri, 14 Sep 2012 16:01:47 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/142220cce7dd45cdbefca0cc01082971#142220cce7dd45cdbefca0cc01082971kettch113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/kettch/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5While I don't think it will ever really be possible (as someone with an electronics engineering background), it would have been great if "Wireless Charging" really meant wireless charging as in distances up to, say 30ft. Well you can technically (see Nikola Tesla), but that will be extraordinary inefficient and will never get past the people that believe the small amounts of magnetic radiation we have in the air right now is going to kill everybody. If/when we do solve that problem though, maybe then we can throw all ports away (maybe sooner if "wireless charging" does take off).

I still think that as it is implemented today, it is a bit gimmicky since you need to place the phone physically on the changing base. "Wireless" is a bit of a deceptive term in this case. Yes, wireless over 1/8th of an inch, sure.

Also nobody has been able to tell me whether placing my wallet next to the charging base will wipe my credit cards or not.

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Fri, 14 Sep 2012 17:22:06 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/2328c9703a73417c8b33a0cc011e39ac#2328c9703a73417c8b33a0cc011e39acBitFlipper113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/BitFlipper/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5It seems you'll be able to get additional new cables for $19 instead of paying $29 for the adapter. Still it doesn't really solve the problem of dock-style peripherals, unless they expect you to prop it up on top of the adapter. Also, it appears that analog audio (but not video) is supported with the new adapter and that there will also be VGA and HDMI cables available in the near future.

While I don't think it will ever really be possible (as someone with an electronics engineering background), it would have been great if "Wireless Charging" really meant wireless charging as in distances up to, say 30ft. Well you can technically (see Nikola Tesla), but that will be extraordinary inefficient and will never get past the people that believe the small amounts of magnetic radiation we have in the air right now is going to kill everybody. If/when we do solve that problem though, maybe then we can throw all ports away (maybe sooner if "wireless charging" does take off).

A magnetic field strong enough to charge something at 10m distance at reasonable speed and efficiency will probably be strong enough to pull the metal fillings out of your mouth. I think I'll stick to wires, in that case.

A magnetic field strong enough to charge something at 10m distance at reasonable speed and efficiency will probably be strong enough to pull the metal fillings out of your mouth. I think I'll stick to wires, in that case.

Who says charging needs to be done magnetically? You could imagine a charger that is based on laser light (e.g. a microwave beam or an infrared beam) being used to charge a device more than a few feet away.

You'd still lose efficiency because the signal degrades with the square of the distance between the emitter and the appliance, and it won't cope with people getting in the way of the beam, and you probably won't be able to do area-of-effect charging zones to do it, but I don't see why wireless charging at 10 feet should be impossible :/

As you say, using magnets to do this would be bad - it'd wipe your credit card as you go in the front door, and cripple all of your display screens (like TVs and laptops) as well

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Sun, 16 Sep 2012 12:33:26 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/4d92841040a2473ab5b9a0ce00cef076#4d92841040a2473ab5b9a0ce00cef076evildictaitor113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/evildictaitor/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5@evildictaitor: Well a focused beam doesn't lose power at the square of the distance (think of a laser beam).

I can imagine some system sometime in the future that can lock on and track devices that need charging, sending focused beams of energy to them. I'm not sure what the energy beam would be though, it has to penetrate most objects and be harmless to humans and animals. Obviously if something gets in the way that the beam can't penetrate it would automatically shut off.

I love that connector. I personally can't stand fiddling with the micro-usb connector on my phone. I turn it over at least three or four times.

My GPS is even worse. I'm suspecting TomTom of making it deliberately hard to plug in without actually grabbing the device, turning it upside down and looking at the socket, in order to prevent you from plugging your device in while driving.

If it serves no other purpose than that (did they really drop the whole video/audio output over the connector thing? That seems... odd) then yeah, it's not much of an advantage over micro-usb, but still. I guess I just wish USB was orientation-agnostic.

If you don't like fiddling with the micro USB port (who does?), the ultimate solution is not a symmetric port but wireless charging, assuming you can leave the charger permanently plugged in.

Corrrect, but I don't find the idea of having an extra adaptor with me very efficient. I just hope there won't be different standards for wireless charging as I see it being potentially a very good solution for all of this.

If you don't like fiddling with the micro USB port (who does?), the ultimate solution is not a symmetric port but wireless charging, assuming you can leave the charger permanently plugged in.

I would like both. Wireless charging sounds ideal to me for the nightly "drop your phone on the night stand" scenario, or just when you're working so you can place it on your desk to charge. But then I also need a cable for when I'm on the go. So that still means fiddling, or a symmetric port. So the ultimate solution would be wireless charging -and- a symmetric port.

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Mon, 17 Sep 2012 13:20:46 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/a5f4c0bc87bc4e858cd9a0cf00dbf0f4#a5f4c0bc87bc4e858cd9a0cf00dbf0f4Bas113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Bas/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5@Bas: Given how power hungry modern phones have become and that they basically took the place of desk phones, charging at work is almost mandatory. But if the thing is small enough, why bring a cable with you on the go? Sounds like THE solution to me.]]>https://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/7f55a27061b54ef4981fa0cf00e55e7e#7f55a27061b54ef4981fa0cf00e55e7e
Mon, 17 Sep 2012 13:55:06 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/7f55a27061b54ef4981fa0cf00e55e7e#7f55a27061b54ef4981fa0cf00e55e7eGio113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/giovanni/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5@giovanni: If the choice is between a cable and a whoopee cushion,...

I'd rather bring the cable

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Mon, 17 Sep 2012 14:27:54 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/2b07933de94e49a99871a0cf00ee603b#2b07933de94e49a99871a0cf00ee603bMaddus Mattus113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Maddus Mattus/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5If Apple really wanted to be "innovative" they should have come up with a hybrid port that can take both the old 30-pin connector and the new connector. Or a small adaptor that plugs in flush with the bottom of the phone that converts the 30-pin to the new format. This is Apple, they are supposed to be innovative.

But of course that would not have brought them in $19 to $29 a pop to let you kludge your old accessories to work with it, so I guess I see why they did it this way.

If Apple really wanted to be "innovative" they should have come up with a hybrid port that can take both the old 30-pin connector and the new connector.

One of the reasons they changed the port was so that they could make devices smaller, so a hybrid port is a non-starter.

Or a small adaptor that plugs in flush with the bottom of the phone that converts the 30-pin to the new format. This is Apple, they are supposed to be innovative.

A plug that fits flush with the bottom of the phone? Do you mean a flat connector?

But of course that would not have brought them in $19 to $29 a pop to let you kludge your old accessories to work with it, so I guess I see why they did it this way.

And your solution is....?

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Mon, 17 Sep 2012 15:48:31 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/0274234ac88a48ccb98ca0cf01048539#0274234ac88a48ccb98ca0cf01048539Ray7113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Ray7/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5@Maddus Mattus: well, normally there is a (small) brick attached to the cord anyway, so if the cushion is small enough does it make much of a difference?]]>https://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/0ca3d906bae3419fb6d7a0cf01049a57#0ca3d906bae3419fb6d7a0cf01049a57
Mon, 17 Sep 2012 15:48:49 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/0ca3d906bae3419fb6d7a0cf01049a57#0ca3d906bae3419fb6d7a0cf01049a57Gio113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/giovanni/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5

At least if they want to obsolete existing accessories, go with something that customers can benefit from going forward.

There is some really lame excuse about then new connector having 8 pins. So far no-one has been able to come up with anything you can do with this new connector that you can't do with a microUSB connector. If there is some extra "signal" you need to transmit, it's a matter of using a protocol that can understand it on both ends.

@evildictaitor: Well a focused beam doesn't lose power at the square of the distance (think of a laser beam).

I can imagine some system sometime in the future that can lock on and track devices that need charging, sending focused beams of energy to them. I'm not sure what the energy beam would be though, it has to penetrate most objects and be harmless to humans and animals. Obviously if something gets in the way that the beam can't penetrate it would automatically shut off.

Larry Niven wrote a novel that talked about satellite power that would align a directional microwave and low power laser along the same path. Your roof would have a receiver that also had a small mirror laying flat at the base of the bowl. The microwave power transmission would turn on if and only if the laser light bounced back to the source. It avoids accidental 'cooking'.

It's even more fun how it lists the name of the station in the autocomplete suggestions, yet still can't find it. And for the record, searching for the name in kanji doesn't work either.

This is almost as bad as Bing.

And trying to search for public transit directions doesn't work at all anymore. Instead of displaying a route, it seems to search for "routing apps" in the app store, and doesn't find anything.

I usually used Jorudan for train schedules anyway, but it's still stupid that they essentially crippled their map functionality. I guess my next phone will have to be an Android since those are now the only ones with decent maps.

I guess my next phone will have to be an Android since those are now the only ones with decent maps.

That's interesting.

None of the big names seem to have maps of Japan, for some reason, which explains why Nokia/Navteq maps are in such a sorry state in your area. It turns out that both Bing and Google licensed Zenrin's data for Japan, which would make me expect the two to have similar performances. You seem to think otherwise, though; which makes me think that Bing botches your queries somehow; care to elaborate?

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Fri, 21 Sep 2012 13:12:03 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/d871c0446be24c949c87a0d300d98b83#d871c0446be24c949c87a0d300d98b83Blue Ink113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Blue Ink/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5@Blue Ink: The main problem is that with Bing, it makes a difference which version of the site you're using. To get any meaningful results for Japan, you must use the Japanese version of the site. Even though the map data is the same, the English version of the site just refuses to find most things. And if you're using the Japanese version of the site, all the UI is in Japanese; far from ideal for a non-native speaker like myself.

The only thing I've managed to get working is major cities or stations, which the English Bing Maps site recognizes (but only if typed in kanji). The Japanese Bing Maps site can successfully search for addresses, businesses, etc., but again typing in kanji or (in some cases) kana is required.

For Google Maps it doesn't matter whether you're on the Japanese or English site. It will recognize most station and city names both entered in kanji and romanized. Addresses only work in kanji, their romanized version may work but it's not reliable. Businesses work fine, but need to be typed as listed, so usually in kanji/kana. But the main point is you can do all this from the English site. Sure, if you try to find directions it will list some of the stations and roads or whatever in kanji, but at least the directions themselves are easier to understand.

Whichever mobile phone OS first manages to get maps with all text, place names, road names, etc. in English, and at least the ability to search addresses in English (business names may not be practical, though it would be nice if it could map a query for McDonald's to マクドナルド) will own the foreigner market in Japan. I even told this to several Windows Phone PMs back at MIX11, but I don't think it helped.

It's funny that AU has a pamphlet with "recommended apps" for Windows Phone 7.5, and one of them is Navitime, a popular Japanese GPS navigation and maps app. Of course, Navitime is not free (I think it may even be a subscription service, but I'm not 100% sure).

EDIT: Okay, I just found out you can use romanized station names, but you better use exactly the right romanization. For example, the station near where I live cannot be found as "Seijogakuenmae" (which is what Google lists it as), you have to search for "Seijō Gakuenmae-eki, Japan". This way you can also get public transit directions, in English, although they are mission fare information with the Japanese Bing and English Google both have.

]]>https://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/7d34f7b2cc8a4e90a4aaa0d301040eb8#7d34f7b2cc8a4e90a4aaa0d301040eb8
Fri, 21 Sep 2012 15:46:50 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/7d34f7b2cc8a4e90a4aaa0d301040eb8#7d34f7b2cc8a4e90a4aaa0d301040eb8Sven Groot113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Sven Groot/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5@Sven Groot: I don't look up Japanese places often, if ever, but I think Bing maps must have changed a lot in recent times as it seems to behave like Google. Maybe they changed provider, or something.

You can use Romaji, and it won't be picky about orthography: "seijo gakuenmae eki" will work fine. What is maddening is that the map actually shows the English name of the place (which is "Seijogakuen Mae", for some reason) which doesn't help much as you cannot search for it.

Sucks, but at least for me it sounds like a plan: learn a bunch of words, fiddle with word breaking. Nothing wrong with empirism, and it still beats the heck out of learning how to type in Kana.

Incidentally, they may have taken you to the letter about McDonald's: one of the notable features of Zenrin's maps is that it displays the logos of a few major brands, including McDonald's and Starbucks. That should help your WiFi needs

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Fri, 21 Sep 2012 17:02:44 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/2249a5f1977a4d7db890a0d30118e715#2249a5f1977a4d7db890a0d30118e715Blue Ink113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Blue Ink/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5As a Taiwanese, I really dont know how to search in English on a map in my home country. Chinese only for me. Besides the translation is terrible sometimes, like Taiwanese official spell Gutting instead of Goo Teen (and yes the first word pronounce Goo, not Gut). The English version is only good when the other person can't understand Chinese using terrible translations.]]>https://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/d60aef8ca2a2490b9e12a0d3011cf9fa#d60aef8ca2a2490b9e12a0d3011cf9fa
Fri, 21 Sep 2012 17:17:34 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/d60aef8ca2a2490b9e12a0d3011cf9fa#d60aef8ca2a2490b9e12a0d3011cf9famagicalclick113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/magicalclick/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5Apple maps is a bit of a disaster in Australia too - the map data is woefully out of date, the overhead images are pathetically bad, and the information on public transport is, at times, useless.

One of the funnier gaffs was that the location marked for Apple's own Sydney store, is on the wrong side of the street - I'm guessing they'll fix that one quick.

Sucks, but at least for me it sounds like a plan: learn a bunch of words, fiddle with word breaking. Nothing wrong with empirism, and it still beats the heck out of learning how to type in Kana.

Or I could just use Google Maps, where things are actually searchable by what the sign in the actual place says, and I don't need to guess what arbitrary breaks were inserted.

And English Bing maps still refuses to find addresses or businesses, regardless of how you type them. You have to use the Japanese site.

I know the logos of certain businesses are shown, and McDonald's happens to be one of them, but I was making more of a general point. Besides, you still need to know to use the Japanese site and search for マクドナルド, unless you think scouring the map manually for a tiny logo is an alternative to the search box.

Apple maps is a bit of a disaster in Australia too - the map data is woefully out of date, the overhead images are pathetically bad, and the information on public transport is, at times, useless.

One of the funnier gaffs was that the location marked for Apple's own Sydney store, is on the wrong side of the street - I'm guessing they'll fix that one quick.

MMmm. This seems to be a case of varying mileage. London seems pretty sharp, but things seem to get very very strange outside the capital: I seem to live inside a pixelated blur... which isn't too far from the truth, but still.

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Sat, 22 Sep 2012 12:36:45 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/ddb7cabb62f04e3aa40ca0d400cfd91b#ddb7cabb62f04e3aa40ca0d400cfd91bRay7113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Ray7/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5This is pretty much the definition of form over function.

But hey, it makes for a pretty demo. I've already seen reviews where they "forget" to mention the maps.

The thing is you can't fix something like this in a week or two. Supposedly the maps are out of date all over the place. It's not a simple one line bug fix. And it's not like they are going to go back to Google maps again.

But hey, it makes for a pretty demo. I've already seen reviews where they "forget" to mention the maps.

The thing is you can't fix something like this in a week or two. Supposedly the maps are out of date all over the place. It's not a simple one line bug fix. And it's not like they are going to go back to Google maps again.

I just hope that the rumours of Google submitting Maps to the app store are true, and that it'll get approved fast. In the mean time I'm using the Google Maps mobile site. It's clunky, but still better than Apple's maps.

I just hope that the rumours of Google submitting Maps to the app store are true, and that it'll get approved fast. In the mean time I'm using the Google Maps mobile site. It's clunky, but still better than Apple's maps.

Would that even make it through the approval process though? They don't allow apps that duplicate functionality that's already provided by built-in apps, right? Like how you can only submit a "browser" that's just a different shell around Safari? Or have they relaxed those rules since?

I just hope that the rumours of Google submitting Maps to the app store are true, and that it'll get approved fast. In the mean time I'm using the Google Maps mobile site. It's clunky, but still better than Apple's maps.

Apparently there's a year left on Apple's Google maps contract, so Google thought they had a year to build a standalone replacement. It looks like they're not going to have anything ready for a few months yet.

At Apple, we strive to make world-class products that deliver the best experience possible to our customers. With the launch of our new Maps last week, we fell short on this commitment. We are extremely sorry for the frustration this has caused our customers and we are doing everything we can to make Maps better.

We launched Maps initially with the first version of iOS. As time progressed, we wanted to provide our customers with even better Maps including features such as turn-by-turn directions, voice integration, Flyover and vector-based maps. In order to do this, we had to create a new version of Maps from the ground up.

There are already more than 100 million iOS devices using the new Apple Maps, with more and more joining us every day. In just over a week, iOS users with the new Maps have already searched for nearly half a billion locations. The more our customers use our Maps the better it will get and we greatly appreciate all of the feedback we have received from you.

While we're improving Maps, you can try alternatives by downloading map apps from the App Store like Bing, MapQuest and Waze, or use Google or Nokia maps by going to their websites and creating an icon on your home screen to their web app.

Everything we do at Apple is aimed at making our products the best in the world. We know that you expect that from us, and we will keep working non-stop until Maps lives up to the same incredibly high standard.

But hey, it makes for a pretty demo. I've already seen reviews where they "forget" to mention the maps.

The thing is you can't fix something like this in a week or two. Supposedly the maps are out of date all over the place. It's not a simple one line bug fix. And it's not like they are going to go back to Google maps again.

The map data is sourced from third parties such as TomTom. When folk try the same searches on TomTom products they get better results, so it does look like the problem is at Apple's end.

Apple notes that 99% of the mapping data is correct. The problem is that when you're talking about mapping data, 1% errors is a massive number of failures.

One recurring problem with the 3D stuff is roads that go under buildings or bridges; they get drawn over the top of them, which is mind-blowing. If the world looked like that I wouldn't leave the house.

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Sat, 29 Sep 2012 07:12:50 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/e6d7a8cb56524fcabe40a0db0076e1ea#e6d7a8cb56524fcabe40a0db0076e1eaRay7113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Ray7/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5@Ray7: This 3D problem is hardly unique to Apple though. Take Flight Simulator X for example: as much as Ultimate Terrain X Europe is a great add-on that immensely improves the accuracy of vector data (roads, railways, waterways, coastlines) for Europe over the default FSX data, it does mess up the A16 to Amsterdam which goes under the taxiways at Schiphol Airport. Instead, it has cars driving over the taxiways (fortunately FSX does not have collision detection between road vehicles and airplanes).

I don't really care about the messed up 3D (I don't even get the 3D on iPhone 4 anyway). I want maps that can find the places I want to go and give me directions to get there. Apple's maps app does neither for me at the moment.

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Sat, 29 Sep 2012 09:59:45 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/3a1fe1826a7647d2ab0ea0db00a4b9f6#3a1fe1826a7647d2ab0ea0db00a4b9f6Sven Groot113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Sven Groot/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5None of this is an excuse for this extremely bad decision to ship it in the 1st place. It wasn't even shipped as a beta product, but as a full-blown replacement for a fully functional app that people rely on every day. I know it sounds a bit over-dramatic but people are being directed up one-way streets, onto non-existent streets, illegal turns etc. This could be problematic especially at night when you might realize the error too late - yes someone can actually get hurt or killed.

And I don't buy the 99% claim at all. Did Apple calculate how much of the data is actually valid? No of course not, how could they? When they released it I'm sure they were convinced it was 99.999% accurate.

What really gets me is how Apple essentially admitted Maps is a failure and people should be using competing products, yet you still find Apple fans claiming it isn't that bad or that people are over-reacting. Which part of "Apple just admitted it is a POS" don't they get?

EDIT: It's not just that the data is inaccurate, it's also that the routing is borked. There are screenshots of routing that takes you miles away into the opposite direction to some imaginary destination while the actual destination is clearly marked with the red pin within a mile of the starting location. I guess Apple though mapping was easy, or that their engineers were smart enough to get it right in a short amount of time.

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Sat, 29 Sep 2012 21:07:20 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/f284d532036d45c7bdb2a0db015c1640#f284d532036d45c7bdb2a0db015c1640BitFlipper113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/BitFlipper/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5Essentially, customers are collateral damage in Apple's war with Google, and it's clear that Apple think they are able to absorb that one and still 'win'.]]>https://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/cd98a9f950ad4559ad10a0db01814057#cd98a9f950ad4559ad10a0db01814057
Sat, 29 Sep 2012 23:22:39 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/cd98a9f950ad4559ad10a0db01814057#cd98a9f950ad4559ad10a0db01814057Elmer113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/elmer/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5What I think is stupid is that Apple is doing everybody a favor. They are keeping you from leaving your house, and making you loads safer than you've ever been before. Even if you do venture outside, you definitely aren't going to be glued to your maps app, and will actually be looking at the road. You didn't really want to go anywhere today, did you? Now stay home and buy stuff on iTunes.]]>https://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/c205071a834c4ec8bea4a0dc001d91ac#c205071a834c4ec8bea4a0dc001d91ac
Sun, 30 Sep 2012 01:47:39 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/c205071a834c4ec8bea4a0dc001d91ac#c205071a834c4ec8bea4a0dc001d91ackettch113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/kettch/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5

Essentially, customers are collateral damage in Apple's war with Google, and it's clear that Apple think they are able to absorb that one and still 'win'.

I don't think it's anything to do with the so-called 'war'. Apple employs this strategy when its partners aren't doing what it wants them to do.

Adobe wouldn't make Flash work efficiently on iOS, so Apple pulled Flash support and Flash Mobile died.

EPEAT wouldn't register the Macbook Pro Retina, so Apple pulled all its products from EPEAT. A few days later, all Apple's gear is back under EPEAT, including the Retina machine.

Google refuses to allow turn-by-turn navigation and voice control in the service delivered to iOS. Apple cuts 100million users from Google's ad stream overnight. My guess is that Google will release their own app ... with turn-by-turn navigation.

Why is turn-by-turn navigation and voice navigation so important?

Apple has signed deals with the major car manufacturers to support their 'Eyes Free' initiative, starting next year. There's a lot to play for.

None of this is an excuse for this extremely bad decision to ship it in the 1st place. It wasn't even shipped as a beta product, but as a full-blown replacement for a fully functional app that people rely on every day.

Whether or not it is a bad decision depends really on what the overall objective is. See my reply to Elmer.

I know it sounds a bit over-dramatic but people are being directed up one-way streets, onto non-existent streets, illegal turns etc. This could be problematic especially at night when you might realize the error too late - yes someone can actually get hurt or killed.

Yes, you are being overdramatic, but people tend to be when they're talking about Apple. The fact is that GPS navigation systems have been giving duff advice for years, and yes, sometimes that advice has proven fatal. However, these systems were never intended to replace good judgement and common sense. In other words, if you let your satnav guide you over a cliff then you're an idiot. Bing once guided me to a gate that said 'track not suitable for cars'. Did I drive through it? No, I used the signposts to find an alternative route.

And I don't buy the 99% claim at all. Did Apple calculate how much of the data is actually valid? No of course not, how could they? When they released it I'm sure they were convinced it was 99.999% accurate.

Apple's data is taken and amalgamated from different sources world wide. Apple then does some jiggery-pokery to present a consistent(?) global service. The problem could possibly lie with the jigging or the poking, rather than the data itself. Some of the sources come from services such as Yelp which may also have local inaccuracies (I've already moved our local petrol station about a mile down the road). By now, Apple probably has about a billion search hits on their mapping service, along with requests for alternatives searches, and bug reports made directly from the application. They also ran it as a beta trial for a while and so I think they have enough information to make a fairly decent guess.

What really gets me is how Apple essentially admitted Maps is a failure and people should be using competing products, yet you still find Apple fans claiming it isn't that bad or that people are over-reacting. Which part of "Apple just admitted it is a POS" don't they get?

Because Apple fans understand something that you don't: the internet is the world's biggest echo chamber. You've got a number of factors affecting the problem's perceived size:

The number of people who genuinely have a problem (hard to quantify without access to Apple's figures)

The number of people who don't have a problem, but hate Apple (quite large)

The number of people who love Apple but hate Tim Cook for not being Steve Jobs (larger than group 2)

The number of people who don't have a problem, don't hate Apple, don't hate Tim Cook, but feel left out if they don't join in (I actually read a post from someone who said he didn't actually have a problem, but felt that he should because he read lots of other people were).

The number of articles repeating the same anecdotes from groups 1 through 5

Finally, the number of people who are using the service, don't have any issues, and so, quite rightly, don't say anything. (Size unknown).

The interesting thing that happened after the apology was the number of people now saying that the service is fine and Cook is a weakling for apologising! Damed if you do...

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Sun, 30 Sep 2012 11:47:10 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/77830de659fa4262a9b1a0dc00c23b5c#77830de659fa4262a9b1a0dc00c23b5cRay7113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Ray7/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5And it seems we're getting close to the answer concerning the other Apple crime against humanity: replacing the old dock connectors with something that STILL isn't micro-USB!

Seems that the lightning connector isn't just a connector; it has a chip inside it which is responsible for dynamically allocating the pins when the cable is plugged in.

The process seems pretty straightforward:

Plugging in the connector sends a short identifier request to the device (this also means that no power or signals traverse the cable until it is plugged into an iPhone or something). It says, 'hello, I'm a USB cable."

Or rather, "Hello, I'm a certified Apple USB cable."

The iPhone responds: "Are you now? In that case, I want you to use pin8 for power, pin 6 for incoming guff, pin4 for outgoing nonsense...."

If it's a Display port cable then the phone can allocate pin6 for power, pin8 for video, pin7 for sound...

So basically, the lightning connector will be able to cope with any protocol that comes up now or in the future.

Because Apple fans understand something that you don't: the internet is the world's biggest echo chamber. You've got a number of factors affecting the problem's perceived size:

The number of people who genuinely have a problem (hard to quantify without access to Apple's figures)

The number of people who don't have a problem, but hate Apple (quite large)

The number of people who love Apple but hate Tim Cook for not being Steve Jobs (larger than group 2)

The number of people who don't have a problem, don't hate Apple, don't hate Tim Cook, but feel left out if they don't join in (I actually read a post from someone who said he didn't actually have a problem, but felt that he should because he read lots of other people were).

The number of articles repeating the same anecdotes from groups 1 through 5

Finally, the number of people who are using the service, don't have any issues, and so, quite rightly, don't say anything. (Size unknown).

The interesting thing that happened after the apology was the number of people now saying that the service is fine and Cook is a weakling for apologising! Damed if you do...

That's all very nice, but if, like me, you're actually in the group that has a genuine problem (a great maps app has been replaced with one that can't find anything in my area) that doesn't really help you.

I don't care if Apple's maps are 99% correct if I live in the 1% that isn't. Even more so because the service they booted was correct, and the features they're adding to the new maps app like turn by turn navigation are irrelevant to me.

The fact is that GPS navigation systems have been giving duff advice for years, and yes, sometimes that advice has proven fatal.

You can't seriously be comparing the typical GPS error rate to that of iOS6 Maps.

Apple's data is taken and amalgamated from different sources world wide. Apple then does some jiggery-pokery to present a consistent(?) global service. The problem could possibly lie with the jigging or the poking, rather than the data itself.

So basically even in their "apology" Apple once again succeeds in deceiving people. They claim the data is 99% correct, implying that you'd only have problems with 1% of the data (that's what we are supposed to think, right?). But in reality it's not so much the data that is the problem, but the inability to extract, calculate and present that data reliably to the user. In that regard it is much less than 99% accurate.

By now, Apple probably has about a billion search hits on their mapping service, along with requests for alternatives searches, and bug reports made directly from the application. They also ran it as a beta trial for a while and so I think they have enough information to make a fairly decent guess.

Yet this "beta" of theirs somehow completely failed to anticipate the magnitude of problems people will run into (no-one noticed the borked roads underneath bridges?). Apple completely bit off too much. They are not a mapping company. You don't get to become a mapping company overnight. There is no way they can fix this thing in a short amount of time. Sure they are fixing the most obvious errors - the ones being posted online to show what a joke Maps is. Now they are creating the illusion that they are fixing the problems fast, yet if there are so many problems in the obvious places, how long is it going to take them to fix all the problems everywhere else? The world is quite large, you know.

BitFlipper wrote:

What really gets me is how Apple essentially admitted Maps is a failure and people should be using competing products, yet you still find Apple fans claiming it isn't that bad or that people are over-reacting. Which part of "Apple just admitted it is a POS" don't they get?

Ray7 wrote:

Because Apple fans understand something that you don't: the internet is the world's biggest echo chamber. You've got a number of factors...

I rest my case.

Why can't people like you just accept it when Apple screws up, and not keep making weak excuses for them? Once again even Apple tells you it is a POS and to go and use the competition's products. How can you guys still not be able to accept it? My feeling is that it is the hardcore Apple fans that fear Apple's precious "Apple Quality" is taking a serious beating and it is hard to deal with it. "Apple Quality" doesn't mean anything these days anymore. The Maps problem isn't the only issue with the iPhone 5, there are also the hardware issues, but I'm sure you are aware of those too.

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Sun, 30 Sep 2012 16:19:54 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/7754351f42954c08b7fba0dc010d23f8#7754351f42954c08b7fba0dc010d23f8BitFlipper113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/BitFlipper/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5While iPhone users wait for Apple to solve the deficiencies of their new MAPS app, they can easily use this very slick alternative: http://www.fullpower.com/

This also makes it easy to wean off that POS Google Maps (which has always been flawed in my experience).

That's all very nice, but if, like me, you're actually in the group that has a genuine problem (a great maps app has been replaced with one that can't find anything in my area) that doesn't really help you.

I don't care if Apple's maps are 99% correct if I live in the 1% that isn't. Even more so because the service they booted was correct, and the features they're adding to the new maps app like turn by turn navigation are irrelevant to me.

Er... that's what I said. The problem with being 99% correct isn't so great when you consider the size of the data set.

You can't seriously be comparing they typical GPS error rate to that of iOS6 Maps.

*snip*

No, I was merely addressing your bout of hysteria by pointing out that the errors in Maps were not going to cause people drive off into ravines in droves. The number of stupid people on the planet has not suddenly doubled because Apple release buggy software.

So basically even in their "apology" Apple once again succeeds in deceiving people. They claim the data is 99% correct, implying that you'd only have problems with 1% of the data (that's what we are supposed to think, right?).

Now, you're gettin' it!

I think you're ready for the real shocker now: that wasn't so much an apology as a ransom note addressed to Google.

But in reality it's not so much the data that is the problem, but the inability to extract, calculate and present that data reliably to the user. In that regard it is much less than 99% accurate.

Yes, I'd go with that. So would Apple, since they've gone to great lengths to point out that the data is accurate and that problem is theirs to fix. I guess the reason they're okay with that is that problems with the data would take longer to put right.

Yet this "beta" of theirs somehow completely failed to anticipate the magnitude of problems people will run into (no-one noticed the borked roads underneath bridges?).

Do you honestly believe that in three years of development no one noticed that the Hoover Dam looked a bit squiffy? No, this is a power play to get Google to build a decent mapping application for the iOS platform. Will they do it, or will they say goodbye to 100 million users (and counting)? My guess is that they'll build it how Apple wants them to build it.

I have to say, I find this all fascinating. I've never seen a company play fast and loose with its reputation in order to get what it wants. Jobs did it with Flash (and won), Cook did it again with EPEAT (and won), and he's doing it again with Maps (jury's still out), and they've been doing it for years with the Samsung case.

Apple completely bit off too much.

Group 2 (those who worship Jobs) forget that he made quite a few mistakes during his second coming. The most remarkable CEO of his generation? Undoubtedly. Infallible? Not by a long shot. He made two glaring errors which the company is still trying to set right: allowing Eric Schmidt onto the board of directors, and not seeing the importance of mapping ten years ago.

They are not a mapping company.

Really? Gosh. You know what else they weren't?

An MP3 Player company.

They also weren't a music store.

or a movie store.

Or a company that knew anything about mobile phones.

Or tablets.

Up until six years ago they didn't know jack about processor design.

Or memory optimisation.

But let's hold that thought, shall we?

You don't get to become a mapping company overnight.

They're not trying to be a mapping company. All they're doing is presenting data from third party partners.

There is no way they can fix this thing in a short amount of time. Sure they are fixing the most obvious errors - the ones being posted online to show what a joke Maps is. Now they are creating the illusion that they are fixing the problems fast, yet if there are so many problems in the obvious places, how long is it going to take them to fix all the problems everywhere else? The world is quite large, you know.

The world is large and mapped 99% correctly. If the problem is Apple's map rendering, then fixing the underlying cause of the problem will fix a lot of the erroneous results. If that isn't the problem then it will take a lot longer to fix. Either way, Google will step with an iOS application in fairly short order, which I think is the real reason behind this game Apple's playing.

Why can't people like you just accept it when Apple screws up, and not keep making weak excuses for them? Once again even Apple tells you it is a POS and to go and use the competition's products. How can you guys still not be able to accept it? My feeling is that it is the hardcore Apple fans that fear Apple's precious "Apple Quality" is taking a serious beating and it is hard to deal with it. "Apple Quality" doesn't mean anything these days anymore. The Maps problem isn't the only issue with the iPhone 5, there are also the hardware issues, but I'm sure you are aware of those too.

I understand your frustration. Each time Apple trips, they get up, brush it off and make another few billion. You want them to fail because you cannot understand why they're successful, and the selfish so-and-sos refuse to accommodate you. That's fair enough; I feel the same way about Manchester United, but turning your frustration on Apple's customers won't help you or make a difference to them, because they're already Apple's harshest critics, and always have been.

I dunno though; if some idiot does manage to get hurt or killed using the Apple Maps, then the outcry could be fatal for Apple, so keep your fingers crossed, eh? ...

@Ray7: This 3D problem is hardly unique to Apple though. Take Flight Simulator X for example: as much as Ultimate Terrain X Europe is a great add-on that immensely improves the accuracy of vector data (roads, railways, waterways, coastlines) for Europe over the default FSX data, it does mess up the A16 to Amsterdam which goes under the taxiways at Schiphol Airport. Instead, it has cars driving over the taxiways (fortunately FSX does not have collision detection between road vehicles and airplanes).

Fair enough, but I still don't think I've seen such scary examples of dodgy rendering as I've seen in Apple's app. It's like swathes of Britain were built by Salvadore Dali.

I don't really care about the messed up 3D (I don't even get the 3D on iPhone 4 anyway). I want maps that can find the places I want to go and give me directions to get there. Apple's maps app does neither for me at the moment.

I haven't had any problems with the directions in my part of the world, but the satellite maps aren't up to much. I do have a film-making friend who's loving the 3D views though. Very good for location-hunting, apparently.

The number of stupid people on the planet has not suddenly doubled because Apple release buggy software.

I think you miss understand the magnitude of them problem. If a GPS tells people to drive a road that is only good for 4x4, regardless how smart the person is, he/she will be lost in the wood. It has happened many time.

And you seem to neglect the simple counter argument. Yes, stupid people did not increase, and yet, if the product is not stupid proof, it will soon be replaced with something that is stupid proof.

Well, it is not that people are actually stupid, they are just smarter to find a case where your assumption no longer hold true. And they will get into trouble when your solution is flawed.

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Mon, 01 Oct 2012 04:10:12 GMThttps://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/iPhone-5/5dae14db80f5459fbd8da0dd0044b87c#5dae14db80f5459fbd8da0dd0044b87cmagicalclick113https://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/magicalclick/Discussions/RSSCoffeehouse - iPhone 5Mapping wasn't the only casualty. Podcast playback was taken out of the iTunes app and put in its own Podcasts app --- this app had been available on the iTunes store for several months and it was almost universally reviled (people who think iPhone users are sheep should think about that for a few minutes). The thing barely works, is slow, plays podcasts in the wrong order, doesn't sync with desktop iTunes, and is generally useless.

Not sure I'm suggesting a connection or not, but it's kinda funny in a sort of way how these bad decisions started happening after Jobs died. If it continues, it'll certainly be remembered that way.

Mapping wasn't the only casualty. Podcast playback was taken out of the iTunes app and put in its own Podcasts app --- this app had been available on the iTunes store for several months and it was almost universally reviled (people who think iPhone users are sheep should think about that for a few minutes). The thing barely works, is slow, plays podcasts in the wrong order, doesn't sync with desktop iTunes, and is generally useless.

Not sure I'm suggesting a connection or not, but it's kinda funny in a sort of way how these bad decisions started happening after Jobs died. If it continues, it'll certainly be remembered that way.

I hate most things apple, but if the bar for suckitude is how crappy your podcasting works, then pretty much every podcast app sucks.

I've never used one that didn't eventually lose its mind and have issues with syncing.