log_jammin:andychrist420: That was you projecting your pseudo outrage against my opinion.

actually no. you responded to a comment not directed towards you.

Except you quoted me, so it was directed towards me. I made a comment that your statement was wrong, and you decided to make an assumption. Whether it was directed to me or not is irrelevant. Is this a "speak only when spoken to" forum? Didn't know I was in the presence of royalty.

Odds are, Grandma was a near-vegetable that had drained them both emotionally and financially to the brink of ruin because her body was just too stubborn to die even though the mind had checked out long ago. But, unlike if a beloved family pet's quality of life had degraded to almost nothing, no one could take Grandma to the Doctor and give her a nice sleepytime shot to put her out of her misery, because with humans, life is all about quantity, not quality.

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BarkingUnicorn:vrax: BarkingUnicorn: vrax: BarkingUnicorn: vrax: The 4chan Psychiatrist: That said, it's rather unconscionable, and frankly disturbing, to picture that nurse just standing there, phone in hand, speaking calmly with that dispatcher while she watches a woman die who has no DNR/DNI on file.

When you listen to the entire, uncut call, it's completely obvious that nobody on staff made any sort of medical determination as to the status of the patient. It was a 100% issue of liability even though the 911 dispatcher addressed the liability issue. The dispatcher was surprisingly cool and understanding, but firm during the entire call. Whomever up thread referred to her as a "spaz" is a farkin' moron. The people at the facility chose to be useless. Nobody should be surprised that people who aren't lobotomized are a bit stunned upon hearing the call.

I think one must be a little out of touch with reality, a.k.a. "lobotomized," to be stunned by the call. "It aint what we don't know that gets us in trouble, it's what we think we know that aint so," said Mark Twain.

Well, if you look at it from the perspective that people do shiatty things all the time, then sure.

"Do shiatty things" is the archetypical job description. Would it make you feel better to imagine that the same people might have done more for this woman if they weren't at work? Then do so.

Why would I play make believe in their favor, when we have the simple fact that, based on policy, they chose to do nothing?

I said do it if it would make you feel better, unless believing that people do shiatty things all the time makes you feel better still. But then you're out of touch with reality again; maybe that makes you feel as good as possible.

We asked her if CPR would have done any good in this case."it could have made a difference. Would it have made a difference in this particular situation? We don't have the answer to that, but have patients survived in a similar situation," said Shain.

so yeah. obviously she was dead when she hit the floor. But even if that were true we only know that now, and is irrelevant when it comes to what happened at the time.

Okay, I think I started to post this in the earlier thread regarding this story but I think I abandoned that post because I didn't think it was really the same thing, but now it seems it is.

This is actually very similar to an episode of All in the Family.

It was one of the later seasons. Edith was working at the Sunshine Home (a nursing home) and she was with a woman she had made friends with when she died.

She started to get help, but the woman was ready to die and just wanted someone there with her when she did (her family never visited her), so Edith sat by her bed and the woman died peacefully with Edith by her side.

When the dead woman's family found out (the same family that never visited her), they were OUTRAGED and Edith got fired.

Bigdogdaddy:The more you eat the more you fart: hardinparamedic: The more you eat the more you fart: REALLY?!

The family's response to the media "outrage"....

And, as someone who has saved "hundreds of lives", you should know that the only legally and ethically acceptable reasons to withhold lifesaving intervention from a patient is if they have a signed DNR order, or you have a physician telling you to.

Except that you are WRONG.

You're a medic. Not a nurse. You do not have the level of medical training that I do. And legally, I am able to determine whether or not lifesaving measures should be taken or not...or whether or not they would be effective. You, as a medic, are not licensed to make this determination. I am.

If you aren't aware that certain nurses in several states are legally allowed to make this determination, then I dont know what to tell you...except that in NO state is a medic legally able to do so.

Also, from what I understand is that if I am not trained to preform CPR correctly I am not to do so. It is more than pounding on a chest. Of course, I'm from a "flyover" state and it varies from state to state.

Flyover state, huh? I believe it is your job to drop to your knees and pray. Remember to make a show of it so that everyone around you will know that you are morally superior to them, even those actually doing something about the situation.

And, as someone who has saved "hundreds of lives", you should know that the only legally and ethically acceptable reasons to withhold lifesaving intervention from a patient is if they have a signed DNR order, or you have a physician telling you to.

I hate the fact that I have to code a 78 year old Alzheimer patient who was long ago confined to a bed, contractured, and has no quality of life. But I don't get to make that decision, and neither does anyone else without the above. I abhor it. And I hope I don't get someone back in that case - as many other people will admit. Life at any costs is utterly cruel. But the alternative is letting people make decisions based on their own personal bias and feelings - decisions which may or may not be the wish of that patient.

I'm sure breaking all their ribs is *definitely* the most ethical, humane thing to do.

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Everyone, including mr indignant paramedic guy...can now go have a beer and let your blood pressure go back to normal.

tlchwi02:sheesh, I didn't know we had the king o' nurses on fark. who gives a crap, an old person lived in a place where she knew there weren't first responders and shockingly when she needed one, there weren't any and her family is shrugging it off. if you're that worked up about it, make sure your relatives and you lives in a place with actual medical staff on site when they/you get old. otherwise, whatever

Like who totally cares about like this. geesh. like an old died n'stuff and like who cares. I don't like get why you people comment on topics that I don't care about or take the time to understand. gosh.

me texan:I am sure you have some valid points in there, but I am not reading it. You've made me regret even having stated an opinion, regardless of how informed or lack thereof I was of the situation.

That really kind of sums up fark.

Give an opinion where you say everyone else is stupid, on a subject that you know nothing about. when given a point by point rebuttal that shows you don't know WTF you're talking about, say you won't read it because....something. Then walk away feeling superior.