New 1M or M1? BMW considering entry level sedan M car based on the F20 1-Series with an M modified N20 turbo four cylinder

This certainly is an interesting piece of news and potentially a very exciting new M car. A real M car mind you, none of this F20 1 Series "M135i" junk. Apparently BMW is considering producing this 1-Series sedan as a rival to the upcoming Mercedes-Benz CLA45 AMG as well as the Audi A3/RS3 sedan. Since the current F20 1-Series is hatchback only building a sedan on the platform would fill a niche the competition is already gearing up for.

The exciting piece of news is that the car would receive an N20 engine modified by BMW M. Expect it to have similar output to the Mercedes 2.0 liter turbo motor that AMG is planning to get 340+ horses out of. If Audi brings the A3 sedan to market it is expected to sport the TT-RS 2.5 liter inline-5 turbo motor with close to 400 horsepower. Either way, this is a new entry level performance segment that is already heating up.

Will BMW build this new 1M or M1? Who knows, but Mercedes-Benz will have the CLA45 AMG on the market relatively soon. Hopefully BMW gives the model the green light as a real M car based on the 1-Series would be great to have. Not to mention it would look a whole lot better than the current M135i hatchback and be more fun to drive. That is, unless they go with front wheel drive which simply is not M.

I like this segment....but they better be careful with it. For enthusiasts, who like to mod, you might be able to have more fun with one of these cars than thier big brothers (m3, s4, etc)

Well did enthusiasts who like to mod with the n54 kill the M3, M5, or M6?

This segment is coming one way or another. I agree, these look like they will be a ton of fun to mod. I'm especially looking forward to the Mercedes and Audi as they will have AWD. They may just be like a German EVO or WRX. Maybe not quite to that degree but you get my point.

"M135i junk"? Have you seen the reviews? Everyone is falling head over heels for that car and a true M car a step above that will be truly legendary. Also, all the rumors seem to be pointing to the 1 series coupe becoming the 2 series so this car would be simply called M2 but there might also be a four door sedan. I think this makes a lot of sense, with an M235i you could have a bigger six cylinder engine with a slightly more livable chassis and without the added maintenance and etc. of an M motor, or you could get the M2 which would (ideally) be significantly lighter with a short four cylinder engine and much sharper handling.

With the M135i and all the other M Performance cars we're finally getting worthy competitors to Audi's S cars (I JUST bought a 335is but I can easily admit that the S4 is the superior driver's car, I just got a crazy deal on the Bimmer) and the M2 should be the successor to what is arguably one of the best M cars there has ever been.

"M135i junk"? Have you seen the reviews? Everyone is falling head over heels for that car and a true M car a step above that will be truly legendary.

The M135i a pile of crap I don't care what anyone says. An M badge on that car is an abomination and additionally it comes with an automatic and just the regular N55. I don't find it anything special.

Originally Posted by Remonster

Also, all the rumors seem to be pointing to the 1 series coupe becoming the 2 series so this car would be simply called M2 but there might also be a four door sedan.

Yes, it might be called the 2. Regardless, it will be an F20 based platform it seems.

Originally Posted by Remonster

I think this makes a lot of sense, with an M235i you could have a bigger six cylinder engine with a slightly more livable chassis and without the added maintenance and etc. of an M motor, or you could get the M2 which would (ideally) be significantly lighter with a short four cylinder engine and much sharper handling.

I think it makes a lot of sense as well. But namely with the M massaged N20, not a six cylinder. What added maintenance of an M motor?

Originally Posted by Remonster

With the M135i and all the other M Performance cars we're finally getting worthy competitors to Audi's S cars (I JUST bought a 335is but I can easily admit that the S4 is the superior driver's car, I just got a crazy deal on the Bimmer) and the M2 should be the successor to what is arguably one of the best M cars there has ever been.

The 335i made the S4 its $#@! for years, what do you mean worthy competitors now? Remember when the S4 could play with the M3? It's just a shift of model alignment. Putting an "M" on a 135i doesn't make it an S competitor all of a sudden it already was. The badge doesn't change anything BMW's always were better drivers cars than the nose heavy Audi's.

The 1M is not arguably one of the best M cars ever built, it's a parts bin embarrassment to the M division.

No it doesn't, do you have data to show m sales didn't fall for the short time the 1m was out? I don't have data showing they did, but if you don't then niether of us can prove our point...it's just speculation.

It would be interesting to see if the amount of m3's or 335's sold during that time went down for the 1m market share or if BMW picked up new buyers all together.

No it doesn't, do you have data to show m sales didn't fall for the short time the 1m was out? I don't have data showing they did, but if you don't then niether of us can prove our point...it's just speculation.

You essentially stated the N54 didn't have an impact because it didn't have an M badge. Well when they gave it an M badge it still didn't change anything. So I think my point stands because you can't prove yours.

And you can't prove yours. The 1m wasn't out long, what if you look at the amount of m3's sold and they went down during the 1m sales period? We aren't able to see that info....but maybe, that's why BMW did what they did. Maybe they sold the 1m for a bit to " test " the market....I dunno

Unfortunately we can't see the build slots and sales during those time periods so neither of us can prove any point. The 1m production was way to limited forus to see any effect, unless we worked for BMW and could see thier build slots/sales/demand.

Kind of did because the existence of cars that are easier to mod, the N54, had a negligible impact on the higher end M cars. I don't see M5 owners trading their cars in for 335's. I don't see M3 owners taking a step down either.

If the 1M was out longer I still wouldn't choose it over the M3. I don't even consider it a real M car. They can put whatever badge they want on it not interested.

Whatever you want to say, without data, it's all speculation. I hate to say it, but a lot of m3 owners don't even know what a s65 is.... Those are the ones I could see being swayed buy a quick, good looking, cheaper entry level m car like a 1m or 2m.

So in the end we won't know, my overall point is, if the m2 or 1m successor has 350-380hp, then the m3 better have a lot more or BMW is making a mistake IMO and potentially cutting into their own m3 sales.

Whatever you want to say, without data, it's all speculation. I hate to say it, but a lot of m3 owners don't even know what a s65 is.... Those are the ones I could see being swayed buy a quick, good looking, cheaper entry level m car like a 1m or 2m.

Is it really speculation to say M cars still have a market even if there are cheaper cars to mod? This car won't change anything. The M5/M6 buyer is still the M5/M6 buyer. All this does it create a new entry level segment.

The guys who don't know what an S65 is are the ones likely to not even know how or what to mod. They are the guy buying the M3 because it is an M3. The cheaper car won't be of any interest in that case.

Originally Posted by bobS

So in the end we won't know, my overall point is, if the m2 or 1m successor has 350-380hp, then the m3 better have a lot more or BMW is making a mistake IMO and potentially cutting into their own m3 sales.

This is exactly why they will give it a tweaked N20 and the six cylinder will remain for the M3. Keep in mind the M3 was fairly close with the DCT to E60 M5 acceleration it didn't cut into that market.

We've had this argument before, Sticky, the M badge doesn't change anything (and I agree, I wish they had named them something else. Keeping the "is" badging would have been perfect, I've owned a 318is and now a 335is and driven one of the E30 325is that made the badge so special in the first place)

BUT, they aren't just sticking an M badge on a 135i to make that M135i, the head of M himself said that 30% of its components have been changed compared to a standard F20 including springs, sway bars, bushings, control arms, etc. all the things that make a car great to drive are significantly changed and it comes standard with the adaptive suspension and sports steering that are both big steps up from the standard stuff (even though you can get those last two as options on a regular car). Also, the M135i comes with Michelin Pilot Super Sports instead of runflats, that alone makes a huge difference.

Also, by added maintenance I meant stuff like the Inspection I and II, expensive tires, I was also thinking of added insurance cost (which is honestly not too much) but a lot of people are turned off of M cars for these reasons. My brother had an E90 M3 so I know first hand how it can cost more to run an M car when I had a 135i and 335is during the same timeframe.

My point with M135i and etc. competing with S cars is simply that right now, Audi's S cars have better handling than their A series cars. I truly hate the A4 and think the 328i walks all over it, but the S4 is a waaaay different car from the driver's seat. Similarly, the M135i, M235i, etc. supposedly have significantly upgraded handling compared to the standard models. I just wish these "M Performance" cars had special interiors or at least sportier seats, I'm majorly jealous of the Recaros Audi puts in a lot of its cars.

We've had this argument before, Sticky, the M badge doesn't change anything (and I agree, I wish they had named them something else. Keeping the "is" badging would have been perfect, I've owned a 318is and now a 335is and driven one of the E30 325is that made the badge so special in the first place)BUT, they aren't just sticking an M badge on a 135i to make that M135i, the head of M himself said that 30% of its components have been changed compared to a standard F20 including springs, sway bars, bushings, control arms, etc. all the things that make a car great to drive are significantly changed and it comes standard with the adaptive suspension and sports steering that are both big steps up from the standard stuff (even though you can get those last two as options on a regular car). Also, the M135i comes with Michelin Pilot Super Sports instead of runflats, that alone makes a huge difference.Also, by added maintenance I meant stuff like the Inspection I and II, expensive tires, I was also thinking of added insurance cost (which is honestly not too much) but a lot of people are turned off of M cars for these reasons. My brother had an E90 M3 so I know first hand how it can cost more to run an M car when I had a 135i and 335is during the same timeframe.My point with M135i and etc. competing with S cars is simply that right now, Audi's S cars have better handling than their A series cars. I truly hate the A4 and think the 328i walks all over it, but the S4 is a waaaay different car from the driver's seat. Similarly, the M135i, M235i, etc. supposedly have significantly upgraded handling compared to the standard models. I just wish these "M Performance" cars had special interiors or at least sportier seats, I'm majorly jealous of the Recaros Audi puts in a lot of its cars.

I'll get back to this, having some forum issues right now.Some quick points, I'm sure the M135i has some changes but I really don't think they are enough for an M badge. It's M everything now. You don't need an M badge to compete with the Audi S cars.

If this car is fwd I will have lost all hope in BMW. As far as the M135i its stupid. The M badge should only go on REAL M cars. Im all for bridging the gap between non-M's and M's but not for whoring out the M badge. Whats wrong with calling it the 135is like they did with the 335is?

You essentially stated the N54 didn't have an impact because it didn't have an M badge. Well when they gave it an M badge it still didn't change anything. So I think my point stands because you can't prove yours.

How come the N54 didn't change anything ??? The upcoming M3 is a twin-turbo inline 6, very likely 3-3.2 - liter. Do you think that if the N54 wasn't that successful BMW would have put such an engine architecture in their upcoming M3 ? N54 is a turning point in BMW engineering, and I'm not saying this because I own one