Thomas Grip (co-founder and Creative Director of Frictional Games, makers of the Penumbra series, the Amnesia series, and SOMA) and JT Petty (writer on such games as the first three Splinter Cell titles, Batman Begins, Outlast 1 & 2, and The Walking Dead: Season 2) join us to discuss the Four Layers of Narrative Design, mistaking plot for story, how controllers affect the narrative, goals of storytelling, VR skepticism, the relation between narrative systems and emotional impact, Silent Hill, what a lack of combat can do for you, the lessons developers can learn from horror, and much more!