I would like to present my point of view on important issues written above.It is going to be a rather long post - forgive me...

About wave. RichardM.

You mentioned about "many wave locations" where outgoing rider should have ROW. I have been wave riding on four continents. The best wave ever for myself was ripping the very same wave on Punta Preta during the classic Cape Verde day, having my son 30 meters ahead and the Champion Mitu 30 meters behind me. Sweet memories.Anyway my observations are different then yours. Actually local customs on majority of kite wave spots say that wave rider has ROW. I just collected and presented binding kitesurfing customs. I am aware that the wave kiting rules are opposite to windsurfing and surfing rules.

Please see a comment from my book:Additional commentary requires a meeting on the wave with a windsurfer, who in similarity to us is driven by wind strength and for this reason cannot be grouped with other water users driven by muscles power alone. The windsurfing wave rule is opposite to the kitesurfing one: a windsurfer going out has right of the way over a windsurfer on the wave approaching to the shore. There is a logical explanation. The windsurfer, in contrary to the kitesurfer, cannot jump up from flat water to fly over the breaking wave. For him it is much more difficult to break through the impact zone than come back on or between the waves. Therefore the Code states that a kitesurfer gives way to a windsurfer sailing out in the impact zone. The windsurfer sailing towards the beach has the same rights as a kitesurfer.Let’s summarize the Wave Rule. Before snapping the waves and making bottom turns double check if it does not disturb a windsurfer breaking through the impact zone and to any other wave surfers driven by their own hands.

For sure there are some specific spots where an outgoing rider should have ROW due to many factors mentioned by you. I assume that you probably ride at such location. How to sort it out? The solution is simple. In such special places it should be a board with info that the rule of shore zone overrides the wave rule.

My point is that once everybody understands and follows proposed kiteregs then we talk the same language. To be honest the present situation looks like a chaos management.The sport is growing rapidly and the real picture of obeying ROW rules gets more catastrophic every year. We do not see any improvement despite of good will by IKO and national associations. I thought that all kiteforum.com users follow the rules presented on this forum:

Taken from windsurfing, a different rule applies if you are riding waves. The rider in the wave should always be given the right of way. You should not interfere any wave riding session of any board sports, like windsurfing, surfing, wave kiter. They are concentrating on the wave and nothing else around, knowing they have the right of way in the wave. Look out for someone dropping into a wave and then either let the rider pass or ride to the direction. The one who drops in first into a wave, has the right of way as well.

The idea to standardise the rules and posting the info boards like I proposed could be a mile step in safety improvement. I do not say it will sort the problem for good - I am realistic. But it will help to understand the basics by newbees who have never been involved in any water sport.

I have very positive feedback from Polish beaches where my poster was displayed. People look on the poster, ask questions, discuss it and then go on the water. Anyone who does not follow the rules from the poster is simply banned by a local society. It proves me that the idea is worth for further promotion and I hope it will be world-wide one.

May I ask all of you?Would you like to see such poster on your local beach and on any popular kitespots where you go for kite holiday?

The poster would be in a local language version on one side of the board and English on the opposite side. A network of national associations or clubs would post the standard info boards. The Polish experiment proves that the majority of us supports this idea despite it has commenced three weeks ago.

Outgoing / incoming rider issue.Sounds good and would work very well in shore zone in most of the cases. Unfortunately it would be pointless during onshore winds, competitions, wave riding on the reef and would work against water sport habits, customs and rules. My proposal contains a part of this idea which is presented in:

Rule 3 – Coastal zone 3.2. A rider approaching a coastal zone gives way to those who are in the zone with their airborne kites and as they enter or leave the water.

And comments:

It should be more clear and widespread that, in the coastal zone, priority is given to the rider who enters the water, who stays on the beach or in the shore zone, and his kite is airborne. He may stand on the beach, in the water or just be leaving water after the session. The beach and the shore zone are places with the highest number of kitesurfing accidents occur (up to 90%). Moreover, accidents on the beach are usually much more dangerous than on water. Additionally, completely random people may become victims. It will not help us if the media describe kitesurfing as a sport for irresponsible and dangerous people. Unexplained behaviour is when a rider gybes or performs a trick a few meters from the shore, delaying other riders who are about to enter the water. It is logical to turn earlier then come back two minutes later and perform the trick on an empty beach. If he fails the trick and his kite falls in water, then nobody is hurt and the kite laying on water won’t delay any other riders. An exception to the case described above is the situation when there are wave surfing conditions off the beach. Then all riders give way to the one who rides the waves first. In practice, it means that nobody launches his kite in the best place for waves. For this reason the launching and landing zone is usually located nearby where no one rides waves in the shore zone. The reason for the second exception may appear with rapidly changing wind conditions. Suppose that a "fat", black cloud is approaching rapidly. Logic says to land a kite immediately and wait until situation is cleared. Therefore in such a moment, in accordance with GKP, the rider who is preparing to enter the water, should land his kite and assist during landing other riders’ kites. Imagine the opposite situation: wind rapidly calms down. We are ready to enter the water with the bigger kite. At the same time, we notice a rider straggling to reach the beach. Good practice will be to depart from the Shore Zone Rules and to give way to the rider approaching the shore. We may lose a few precious seconds on the water but for sure we will gain respect of others at the same time.

About the rule concerning meeting with other water users. Again, I thought that people follow the rules taken from this forum which states:

When you kitesurf, you will experience a lot of other water users:  windsurfers  surfers  sailors  boats  fishermen  swimmers  divers  jet skis In general, keep away from any of them! We are the smallest group of all, so we are more likely to get in trouble than the other way around... Although sailors and windsurfer apply to the same rights of way, it does not make sense to get in their way and cause any trouble. Windsurfers are a bit different, since they also are used to share an area with more riders, so knowing the rules is very common. Observe the windsurfers when riding, and see if they stick to the rules or not. Some will never leave their course, so be ready to change yours. From any other water user the distance should be far enough to not get into trouble. Even surfers, who, ones in the wave, will not stop for you or let you pass. They don't get as many waves as others, so leave the right of way to them, as to anyone else On the Wave. Big boats and ships cannot easily change their course, so never ever get into their way, since they also create a wind shadow, where you will most like not get out and your kite can drop. Respect the fishermen, they are working hard, so don't get in trouble with them. Always look out for divers, either snorkelers or real divers with buoys. Never come too close to any of them.

I do not agree with only one item: a jetski. I do not understand why we suppose to give a way?!Please see comments from my book:

More over we give way to power-driven crafts and vessels longer than 7 metres as well. The explanation of this fact is based on facts mentioned above. The other shorter power-driven crafts have to give way to us. The Code establishes the limit of 7 meters for practical reasons. Such small crafts are easy controllable and pretty often more manoeuvrable than a kitesurfer. Therefore we should have the right of the way over any jet-skis or small speed boats. The worst scenario on the water nowadays is to have a jet-ski rental next to a kitesurfing spot. It is easy to predict the behaviour of a teenager who rents such a powerful machine for 15 minutes and additionally hears that according to binding rules kitesurfers give him the way. He should keep away from us! Author hopes that this principle based on common sense will be widely accepted in the world of water sports.What about a ski-jet towing a rubber banana, a water skier or a wake boarder? In this case we give way due to their restricted manoeuvrability. It is exactly the same like in ColRegs where towing tugs have the status of “vessels restricted in their ability to manoeuvre” and all other vessels have to give way to them.In some situations, especially during meetings on the opposite courses, it may be difficult to assess a craft’s dimensions. In case of any doubt we assume that the craft is longer than 7 meters and then we give way according to the Rule Responsibility.

I would like to present my point of view on important issues written above.It is going to be a rather long post - forgive me...

About wave. RichardM.

You mentioned about "many wave locations" where outgoing rider should have ROW. ……1. Anyway my observations are different then yours. Actually local customs on majority of kite wave spots say that wave rider has ROW. I just collected and presented binding kitesurfing customs.I am aware that the wave kiting rules are opposite to windsurfing and surfing rules.……..For sure there are some specific spots where an outgoing rider should have ROW due to many factors mentioned by you. I assume that you probably ride at such location. How to sort it out? The solution is simple. 2. In such special places it should be a board with info that the rule of shore zone overrides the wave rule.

My point is that once everybody understands and follows proposed kiteregs then we talk the same language. 3. To be honest the present situation looks like a chaos management.The sport is growing rapidly and the real picture of obeying ROW rules gets more catastrophic every year. …….…….You should not interfere any wave riding session of any board sports, like windsurfing, surfing, wave kiter. 4. They are concentrating on the wave and nothing else around, knowing they have the right of way in the wave. ……..The one who drops in first into a wave, has the right of way as well.

The idea to standardise the rules and posting the info boards like I proposed could be a mile 5. step in safety improvement. I do not say it will sort the problem for good - I am realistic. 6. But it will help to understand the basics by newbees who have never been involved in any water sport.

…….. Anyone who does not follow the rules from the poster is 7. simply banned by a local society.

………

Outgoing / incoming rider issue.Sounds good and would work very well in shore zone in most of the cases. 8. Unfortunately it would be pointless during onshore winds, competitions, wave riding on the reef and would work against water sport habits, customs and rules.

Rule 3 – Coastal zone 3.2. A rider approaching a coastal zone gives way to those who are in the zone with their airborne kites and as they enter or leave the water.

And comments:

9. It should be more clear and widespread that, in the coastal zone, priority is given to the rider who enters the water, who stays on the beach or in the shore zone, and his kite is airborne. He may stand on the beach, in the water or just be leaving water after the session. The beach and the shore zone are places with the highest number of kitesurfing accidents occur (up to 90%). Moreover, accidents on the beach are usually much more dangerous than on water. Additionally, completely random people may become victims. It will not help us if the media describe kitesurfing as a sport for irresponsible and dangerous people. Unexplained behaviour is when a rider gybes or performs a trick a few meters from the shore, delaying other riders who are about to enter the water. It is logical to turn earlier then come back two minutes later and perform the trick on an empty beach. If he fails the trick and his kite falls in water, then nobody is hurt and the kite laying on water won’t delay any other riders.

10. An exception to the case described above is the situation when there are wave surfing conditions off the beach. Then all riders give way to the one who rides the waves first. In practice,11. it means that nobody launches his kite in the best place for waves. For this reason the launching and landing zone is usually located nearby where no one rides waves in the shore zone.

12. The reason for the second exception may appear with rapidly changing wind conditions. Suppose that a "fat", black cloud is approaching rapidly. Logic says to land a kite immediately and wait until situation is cleared. Therefore in such a moment, in accordance with GKP, the rider who is preparing to enter the water, should land his kite and assist during landing other riders’ kites. Imagine the opposite situation: wind rapidly calms down. We are ready to enter the water with the bigger kite. At the same time, we notice a rider straggling to reach the beach. Good practice will be to depart from the Shore Zone Rules and to give way to the rider approaching the shore. We may lose a few precious seconds on the water but for sure we will gain respect of others at the same time.

About the rule concerning meeting with other water users. Again, I thought that people follow the rules taken from this forum which states:

When you kitesurf, you will experience a lot of other water users:  windsurfers  surfers  sailors  boats  fishermen  swimmers  divers  jet skis In general, keep away from any of them! We are the smallest group of all, so we are more likely to get in trouble than the other way around... Although sailors and windsurfer apply to the same rights of way, it does not make sense to get in their way and cause any trouble. Windsurfers are a bit different, since they also are used to share an area with more riders, so knowing the rules is very common. Observe the windsurfers when riding, and see if they stick to the rules or not. Some will never leave their course, so be ready to change yours. From any other 13. water user the distance should be far enough to not get into trouble. Even surfers, who, ones in the wave, will not stop for you or let you pass. They don't get as many waves as others, so leave the right of way to them, as to anyone else On the Wave. Big boats and ships cannot easily change their course, so never ever get into their way, since they also create a wind shadow, where you will most like not get out and your kite can drop. Respect the fishermen, they are working hard, so don't get in trouble with them. Always look out for divers, either snorkelers or real divers with buoys. Never come too close to any of them.

14. I do not agree with only one item:a jetski. I do not understand why we suppose to give a way?!Please see comments from my book:

More over we give way to power-driven crafts and vessels 15. longer than 7 metres as well. The explanation of this fact is based on facts mentioned above. The other shorter power-driven crafts have to give way to us. The Code establishes the limit of 7 meters for practical reasons. Such small crafts are easy controllable and pretty often more manoeuvrable than a kitesurfer. Therefore we should have the right of the way over any jet-skis or small speed boats. The worst scenario on the water nowadays is to have a jet-ski rental next to a kitesurfing spot. It is easy to predict the behaviour of a teenager who rents such a powerful machine for 15 minutes and additionally hears that according to binding rules kitesurfers give him the way. He should keep away from us! 16. Author hopes that this principle based on common sense will be widely accepted in the world of water sports.What about a ski-jet towing a rubber banana, a water skier or a wake boarder? In this case 17. we give way due to their restricted manoeuvrability. It is exactly the same like in ColRegs where towing tugs have the status of “vessels restricted in their ability to manoeuvre” and all other vessels have to give way to them.In some situations, especially during meetings on the opposite courses, it may be difficult to assess a craft’s dimensions. In case of any doubt we assume that the craft is longer than 7 meters and then we give way according to the Rule Responsibility.

[size=85]Rules 3.1 & 6.Launching and landing of a kite, or any other manoeuvre, must not endanger other people

Rule 4.3. The overtaking rider keeps out of the way of the rider being overtaken

21. Rule 7.1. Give way to riders surfing waves

Rule 5.2. Avoid multiperson meetings

22. Rule 10. Give way to other water users and power-driven crafts over 7 meters[/size]

BraCuru:

I won't apologize for the length of this post since nobody is forced to read it. However, I have edited out from your post as much as possible and simply numbered the points I wish to address.

1. I have never said that at the locations with which I'm familiar that waveriders tend to give the ROW to others. I have said that the RULE SHOULD BE that they DO NOT HAVE the ROW.For details, please see my post on page 2 of this thread.

Just because someone went to an island where, for example, all the natives were cannibals, doesn't mean that cannibalism is GOOD. Just because most waveriders want to do something that is WRONG doesn't make it right.

2. Any ROW RULE should be as SIMPLE as possible with the absolute fewest exceptions (preferably no exceptions). If there needs to be an exception, the exception should be that when the wave is breaking far from shore (generally reef breaks) so that waveriders do not interfere with OUTGOING kiters, then signage should indicate this exception.

3. I agree.

4. Non-kiters on a wave should ALWAYS have the ROW based upon the basic "less maneuverable vessel has the ROW RULE".

As to kiters, many people kiting would like to "concentrate" on what they're doing to the exclusion of all else. This is fine, so long as this "concentration" does not interfere with people who SHOULD have the ROW. ROW RULES are specifically so that people know WHEN they don't have to be PRIMARILY concerned with giving up the ROW.

All your statement says is that they have taken the ROW because they want to and it doesn't provide the slightest JUSTIFICATION (based upon the SAFEST course of action) for WHY they SHOULD have it.

5. Only if the rules were SIMPLE and LOGICAL and based upon SAFETY considerations rather than courtesy and/or convenience.

6. There are too many exceptions, contradictions, non-conformance to basic safety considerations and illogical results embodied in the ROW RULES you (and most waveriders) propose. As outlined below, it is too easy to be confused. Confusion is a bad thing regarding RULES.

7. I'm sorry, but this simplistic approach is not only completely illegal but it obviously discriminates against newbies and may be used as a method to try to restrict access for the benefit of locals. Furthermore, exactly WHO decides to "ban" someone? How long are they "banned" for? How many violations are required before "banning"? Are you going to be as quick to ban some hot chick as a 150 lb guy? How about a couple of 225 lb rugby players?

Obviously, actual enforcement is hopeless. Therefore the best way to obtain compliance is to make compliance as SIMPLE and EASY as possible.

8. Even in onshore winds, 99% of the time you will have OUTGOING and INCOMING riders.

Competitions don't matter. They can have any rules they want. Wave riding on a reef break could relatively easily be a standard exception. According to the basic ROW RULE, the ROW should go to the less maneuverable vessel (and/or people in the water). Except for windsurfers, it relatively uncommon for kiters to have to deal with other craft near a shore, in which case they can yield the ROW or use the Port/Starboard RULE.

9. This should be the standard RULE for the reasons you list and those I list in my post on page 2.

10. This should NOT be an exception. Just because you may be outnumbered by cannibals, doesn't make cannibalism RIGHT (although you may think you have to agree to keep from being chewed on).

11. This makes sense at SOME locations. However, at locations where this isn't possible, you still need A ROW RULE.

12. This situation would not have to be an "exception" if following the basic ROW RULE that the least maneuverable vessel has the ROW. And helping the other kiter is a nice courtesy but has nothing to do with ROW.

13. I'm not sure what you mean by "get in trouble" but I would add that it includes simply making other water users UNCOMFORTABLE. Although a kiter may THINK he's far enough away to not have an accident, there is no reason why a surfer etc. should have his day ruined WORRYING about having his head lopped off by a kiter.

14. I agree that personal watercraft should NOT have the ROW since they are much more maneuverable than kiters.

15. Size shouldn't be the determining factor. An 8' pram with an electric motor should have the ROW because it's less maneuverable. Similarly, there could be a boat over 7M which is more maneuverable than a kiter.

16. I agree that widespread acceptance of SIMPLE RULES that are based upon the SAFEST course of action is highly desirable.

17. Exactly correct.

18. Regarding rule 3.2: Why only ENTERING the water? Why not someone in the water either after entering or turning around to go out? All the reasons I list on page 2 apply to both kiters.

19. This is confusing and completely unnecessary for all the reasons I list on page 2.

20. This is another rule that I can not understand. The upwind rider may be going as far upwind as possible and can not go any further upwind. In this case, he must cut IN FRONT of the downwind rider in order to go downwind and thereby yield the ROW. On the other hand, all the downwind rider has to do is turn slightly downwind in order to avoid the upwind rider. Please explain why the downwind rider should have the ROW.

21. No. Waveriders should generally NOT have the ROW for all the reasons listed herein and on page 2.

22. Should simply be "the least maneuverable vessel (water user) has the ROW and when in doubt, yield.

Although I disagree with you on many of the RULES, I'm very impressed with the amount of effort and professionalism which you've put into the signage

Wave riders should have ROW because waves are the reason the people are riding there.... If you want to go out, go out away from where the waves riders are riding. You can't ride waves where there aren't any, but you can still go out there, so go out where there aren't any waves (or where there are the least desirable waves).

Wave riders should have ROW because waves are the reason the people are riding there.... If you want to go out, go out away from where the waves riders are riding. You can't ride waves where there aren't any, but you can still go out there, so go out where there aren't any waves (or where there are the least desirable waves).

That's a bad argument. I like to drive fast but still have to stop at a stop sign or red light. Going out makes you often more vulnerable in many spots so the ROW should be yours. I doubt that this will be a big issue as these wave regs will differ locally and will be handled locally. You will also not find an oiltanker or or other vessel in the line-up so not coming up with a sailing conform rule should not be a problem at all.

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