Pointing out that something is efficient or works isn't the same as saying you want it. I admittedly just skimmed TFA, but I didn't see any recommendation. Still, I expect Farkers to make inferences for political points.

The chairman of President Barack Obama's job council has endorsed China's style of crony capitalism, saying "state-run communism may not be your cup of tea, but their government works."

en·dorse/enˈdôrs/Verb

Declare one's public approval or support of.Recommend (a product) in an advertisement.

Acknowledging the objective fact that something works for its intended purpose is not a tacit or explicit approval of that thing. Successfully killing your brother and getting away with it so that you're the sole heir to the estate works great for its intended purpose. Just because I recognize that fact doesn't mean I'm endorsing fratricide.

Conservatives on this site are always whining that us silly liberals just write off bullshiat like the Daily Caller without even reading it. So I say to myself "okay, well, let's see what this is actually about". I click the link, and within the FIRST. FARKING. SENTENCE. the goddamn article proves itself to be bullshiat that can be immediately written off without additional thought.

Words have meanings you far-right turd-flinging pit monkeys. If you can't even acknowledge that basic fact when you write things why the fark shouldn't I just tear into your stupid commentary without even looking at it?

Did this guy manage to conjure up the same level of outrage when Bush endorsed the idea of the President of the United States being a dictator? No, he didn't? Oh, I guess that was because what he said about the idea of being dictator being easier wasn't actually an endorsement.

SomeoneDumb:Pointing out that something is efficient or works isn't the same as saying you want it. I admittedly just skimmed TFA, but I didn't see any recommendation. Still, I expect Farkers to make inferences for political points.

The Chinese government is a disaster. It only looks like it works from 10,000 feet.

How do you think U.S. citizens would feel if almost 2 million people were kicked out of their homes and promised next to nothing for it? Or create the worst environmental disaster in history, on purpose? Or a trillion dollars for a city that will never be used? Or a capital city that frequently gets inundated with poison gas?

If you think the Chinese government works, try moving there. See if you still feel this way.

The Jami Turman Fan Club:SomeoneDumb: Pointing out that something is efficient or works isn't the same as saying you want it. I admittedly just skimmed TFA, but I didn't see any recommendation. Still, I expect Farkers to make inferences for political points.

The Chinese government is a disaster. It only looks like it works from 10,000 feet.

How do you think U.S. citizens would feel if almost 2 million people were kicked out of their homes and promised next to nothing for it? Or create the worst environmental disaster in history, on purpose? Or a trillion dollars for a city that will never be used? Or a capital city that frequently gets inundated with poison gas?

If you think the Chinese government works, try moving there. See if you still feel this way.

This. It works only if your goal is for society, when seen from a great distance, to meet a particular sociopolitical aesthetic. In the case of the Chinese government, that aesthetic crumbles at just about the slightest touch, but it does technically meet the goals.

Then again, there are a lot of people whose political goals seem to be driven by sociopolitical aesthetics, so perhaps this really is all that would be needed to satisfy them.

The Jami Turman Fan Club:SomeoneDumb: Pointing out that something is efficient or works isn't the same as saying you want it. I admittedly just skimmed TFA, but I didn't see any recommendation. Still, I expect Farkers to make inferences for political points.

The Chinese government is a disaster. It only looks like it works from 10,000 feet.

How do you think U.S. citizens would feel if almost 2 million people were kicked out of their homes and promised next to nothing for it? Or create the worst environmental disaster in history, on purpose? Or a trillion dollars for a city that will never be used? Or a capital city that frequently gets inundated with poison gas?

If you think the Chinese government works, try moving there. See if you still feel this way.

The per capita GDP of China and India combined is still less than Mexico's and state owned enterprises account for more than 50% of GDP.

Insatiable Jesus:It is treasonous to feed the Chicom monster while Americans starve,

The Computer says so. The Computer is your friend. Seriously; at least in the US, treason is very narrowly and specifically defined, and this does not fit.

But hey, remember when we all voted for politicians who ran on a platform of shipping half our economy to the Chicom? Me either.

Those would be the politicians who voted for free-trade agreements, allowing American labor to compete on the open market. Ross Perot's "giant sucking sound" turned out to be all too real; he was only wrong about where the sound was coming from.

Millennium:Insatiable Jesus: It is treasonous to feed the Chicom monster while Americans starve,

The Computer says so. The Computer is your friend. Seriously; at least in the US, treason is very narrowly and specifically defined, and this does not fit.

But hey, remember when we all voted for politicians who ran on a platform of shipping half our economy to the Chicom? Me either.

Those would be the politicians who voted for free-trade agreements, allowing American labor to compete on the open market. Ross Perot's "giant sucking sound" turned out to be all too real; he was only wrong about where the sound was coming from.

We get to compete with people who make $1.00 a day to make consumer goods for our own domestic market? Great! I always wanted to go on the sub-subsistence level diet plan.

vpb: We get to compete with people who make $1.00 a day to make consumer goods for our own domestic market? Great! I always wanted to go on the sub-subsistence level diet plan.

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And shovel money to a Communist nation that forcibly aborts babies at term, persecutes Christians and generally despises the West.

It might be competition if the Chicom played fair, but we don't hold them to the rules. They subsidize export product, refuse to unpeg their currency steal every bit of tech they can get their hands on.

Short term profits and more yachts for the Walton punks is the order of the day.

Personally, I suspect the whole "on-shoring" thing is not that big a deal. All we are seeing is automation replacing manual labor. As labor becomes a less significant part of the cost of manufacture, the advantage of cheap labor declines. Sure items are being made here, but the jobs aren't coming back. It's just that automation isn't any cheaper in China than it is here.

I think we have already hit the point where there simply aren't enough jobs to go around and never will be again.

vpb:We get to compete with people who make $1.00 a day to make consumer goods for our own domestic market? Great! I always wanted to go on the sub-subsistence level diet plan.

Nobody moves jobs to China because the labor is cheap. Nobody's done that for years.

They move jobs there either because China effectively has no environmental rules, or because they rely on things built in factories that would never be allowed in the US due to environmental concerns.If they want cheap labor, they move production to Nigeria. Truth is, though, that labor is such a small part of the cost for 'cheap labor' products that they might as well build them here.

These are factories that even poor countries don't want because the pollution is so terrible. I'm OK with that production being half a world away.

vpb:I think we have already hit the point where there simply aren't enough jobs to go around and never will be again.

There are over five billion people who want houses, cars, etc. like what you have. That's a pent-up demand it'll take a century to fill. The job shortage is entirely artificial. The demand is always there.

The Jami Turman Fan Club:SomeoneDumb: Pointing out that something is efficient or works isn't the same as saying you want it. I admittedly just skimmed TFA, but I didn't see any recommendation. Still, I expect Farkers to make inferences for political points.

The Chinese government is a disaster. It only looks like it works from 10,000 feet.

How do you think U.S. citizens would feel if almost 2 million people were kicked out of their homes and promised next to nothing for it? Or create the worst environmental disaster in history, on purpose? Or a trillion dollars for a city that will never be used? Or a capital city that frequently gets inundated with poison gas?

If you think the Chinese government works, try moving there. See if you still feel this way.

Living in the shadow of Cowboy's Stadium I am getting a kick out of your reply.

SomeoneDumb:Pointing out that something is efficient or works isn't the same as saying you want it. I admittedly just skimmed TFA, but I didn't see any recommendation. Still, I expect Farkers to make inferences for political points.

The Jami Turman Fan Club: vpb: We get to compete with people who make $1.00 a day to make consumer goods for our own domestic market? Great! I always wanted to go on the sub-subsistence level diet plan.

Nobody moves jobs to China because the labor is cheap. Nobody's done that for years.

They move jobs there either because China effectively has no environmental rules, or because they rely on things built in factories that would never be allowed in the US due to environmental concerns.If they want cheap labor, they move production to Nigeria. Truth is, though, that labor is such a small part of the cost for 'cheap labor' products that they might as well build them here.

These are factories that even poor countries don't want because the pollution is so terrible. I'm OK with that production being half a world away.

------------------------

To say that nobody moves production to China over labor costs is patently ridiculous and proves that you are ignorant on the subject. Four years ago, the labor rate for us in China was effectively 20 cents an hour. That is by way of comparison to what we were paying in the US. I doubt it has gone up very much.

Nigeria? Are you farking serious? Yeah, Wal-Mart and all the big box stores are overrun with all that Made In Nigeria product.

I once looked into Africa, India and SE Asia as options for a client. India and SE Asia come with shipping costs that outweigh the savings. Africa is just a crapshoot as far as how many officials you will have to bribe to get your product out, not to mention fretting over whether or not the country you put next quarter's production in will burst into war.

He isn't talking about anything but government control of your lives. People who can get power should never be allowed to have power, the act of running for political office should disqualify you from having political office, I know he isn't elected he is an appointed politician.

The Jami Turman Fan Club:vpb: I think we have already hit the point where there simply aren't enough jobs to go around and never will be again.

There are over five billion people who want houses, cars, etc. like what you have. That's a pent-up demand it'll take a century to fill. The job shortage is entirely artificial. The demand is always there.

No it isn't. That demand is being satisfied now, and there are plenty of unemployed people. Demand isn't simply wanting something, it requires that you have the disposable income to actually buy it to be "demand" in the economic sense.

To say that nobody moves production to China over labor costs is patently ridiculous and proves that you are ignorant on the subject. Four years ago, the labor rate for us in China was effectively 20 cents an hour. That is by way of comparison to what we were paying in the US. I doubt it has gone up very much.

Wouldn't matter if the labor rate was free. The other costs (shipping, construction, etc.) are too high. If you're looking for cheap labor, there's much closer places you can choose from.

Nigeria? Are you farking serious? Yeah, Wal-Mart and all the big box stores are overrun with all that Made In Nigeria product.

They don't make that stuff in China because the labor's cheap. They make it there because of the environmental rules.

I once looked into Africa, India and SE Asia as options for a client. India and SE Asia come with shipping costs that outweigh the savings.

Me: Truth is, though, that labor is such a small part of the cost for 'cheap labor' products that they might as well build them here.

The Jami Turman Fan Club: They don't make that stuff in China because the labor's cheap. They make it there because of the environmental rules.

Dude, you are ignorant. Another Fark expert with obviously no experience in the field he is trying to be an expert at. Another yob who can't let go of a stupid statement he made, and instead digs deeper.

You can get around environmental rules right here close to home in CA, SA and the Carribbean. Some of the busiest times on the border between the DR and Haiti is at 2am. Ahh, the Midnight Container Run, good times.

I can't think of any product line I have seen sent to China where the move was driven by (even partly) environmental compliance costs. It is patently ridiculous. It has always been driven by labor costs.

Insatiable Jesus:The Jami Turman Fan Club: They don't make that stuff in China because the labor's cheap. They make it there because of the environmental rules.

Dude, you are ignorant. Another Fark expert with obviously no experience in the field he is trying to be an expert at. Another yob who can't let go of a stupid statement he made, and instead digs deeper.

You can get around environmental rules right here close to home in CA, SA and the Carribbean. Some of the busiest times on the border between the DR and Haiti is at 2am. Ahh, the Midnight Container Run, good times.

I can't think of any product line I have seen sent to China where the move was driven by (even partly) environmental compliance costs. It is patently ridiculous. It has always been driven by labor costs.

Find me a product line that moved in the last two years that moved to China soley due to labor costs.

Startups in this area usually start in a garage, move to a small manufacturing facility and when they finally get those orders from the Big Boxes they've been dreaming of, they realize that US labor will bury them because there is so little margin involved when you cut a deal with a big box. Cutting a deal with a big box is making a deal with the devil but good luck out-arguing the sales side of a business. Their argument usually boils down to another way of saying, "Sure, we lose 2 cents on each unit, but we'll make it up in volume."

I have talked only one company into eschewing a deal with the Big Boxes. I shared some horror stories, showed them some math and pointed out that their product was superior enough, unique enough and protected IP-wise enough for them to stick to their guns. When Bass Pro shops knows that people want your product because it is superior, and they're driving to the last little tackle shop that BPS hasn't put out of business to get it, BPS will eventually come to you. It's not rocket science because there is no margin in a big box deal unless you have leverage like that over the big box. Then, you get to help write the contract instead of just signing their standard FU Pay Me deal.

When they see the math unfolding later, it is LABOR that drives the desire to move. Doesn't matter if they end up in China, Mexico or the DR, it was labor costs that led them to explore alternatives in the first place. Doesn't matter if they chose someplace other than that with the cheapest labor or what other factors eventually factored into the decision - it was LABOR that started the ball rolling.

I usually advise my clients to go to Mexico. The labor is just a bit more expensive, but it is easier to keep tabs on your production facility, keeps it in the family and means shorter production/shipping cycles. The majority of the people I have worked with in this situation focus only on labor costs, because that's their pain at the time. Many instantly reject Mexico in favor of China because of political nonsense - somehow it's more American to send jobs and money to Communist Chinese than our neighbors because Fox News said Mexicans are dirty or whatever.

And the Big Boxes love it. That's where all of their production already is so once they squeeze your up and coming butt into the bankruptcy corner, they (or one of their larger suppliers) can absorb you quite easily. Go ahead, just trust a Chinese factory that also does business with your big box customer or their largest suppliers. LOL. They'll help put you in that corner.

I digress though.

The proof is in the pudding. With few exceptions, most of the costs involved in a consumer product are labor related. Not materials or environmental compliance costs, but labor. You say nobody has moved to China in years over labor, then where the hell are they moving to? Where is all of this Made In Nigeria product flooding Wal-Mart?

Insatiable Jesus:The Jami Turman Fan Club: Find me a product line that moved in the last two years that moved to China soley due to labor costs.

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Wait. Solely? Like a business that deals with no factor other than labor? I see, let's narrow the goalposts instead of moving them.

You're right, solely is a bad word to use there.

I usually advise my clients to go to Mexico. The labor is just a bit more expensive, but it is easier to keep tabs on your production facility, keeps it in the family and means shorter production/shipping cycles. The majority of the people I have worked with in this situation focus only on labor costs, because that's their pain at the time. Many instantly reject Mexico in favor of China because of political nonsense - somehow it's more American to send jobs and money to Communist Chinese than our neighbors because Fox News said Mexicans are dirty or whatever.

We're not disagreeing, which is why I'm confused. When you recommend that a company move somewhere cheaper (not related to environmental concerns), you don't recommend China.

And the Big Boxes love it. That's where all of their production already is...

Right. Walmart isn't moving production to China, it's already been there for a decade.

You say nobody has moved to China in years over labor, then where the hell are they moving to

Mostly they haven't- the U.S. has gained half a million manufacturing jobs in the last three years.

SomeoneDumb:Pointing out that something is efficient or works isn't the same as saying you want it. I admittedly just skimmed TFA, but I didn't see any recommendation. Still, I expect Farkers to make inferences for political points.

The Jami Turman Fan Club:SomeoneDumb: Pointing out that something is efficient or works isn't the same as saying you want it. I admittedly just skimmed TFA, but I didn't see any recommendation. Still, I expect Farkers to make inferences for political points.

The Chinese government is a disaster. It only looks like it works from 10,000 feet.

How do you think U.S. citizens would feel if almost 2 million people were kicked out of their homes and promised next to nothing for it? Or create the worst environmental disaster in history, on purpose? Or a trillion dollars for a city that will never be used? Or a capital city that frequently gets inundated with poison gas?

If you think the Chinese government works, try moving there. See if you still feel this way.

I think the fact that you don't hear anything, proves that in works in there own way. Don't get me wrong, I would in no way want to live there, but it is pretty efficient in controlling the populace, which seems to be the goal of the Chinese Government.

I'm sure it doesn't bother any of FarkLibia that Jeff Immelt is the CEO of a company that not only made $13Bn in profit in 2010, paid absolutely nothing in taxes and got an additional $3.2Bn in cheese back from the taxpayer. I guess it pays to be on the inside. what is GE's fair share? 2Bn back? $5Bn back?

It can work here too. Just bring all the troops home and have them all turn their rifles 180^0 towards the citizens. Slavery - gets shiat done.

Any number of people have pointed out that China can do large public-works projects much more quickly than the United States--a fact which is objectively true, but which must be considered in context. It's true because of the authoritarian nature of the Chinese government.

When a government can do whatever it wants, and doesn't spend any time fretting over the people who are killed or displaced in the process, and has no problem jailing or killing its opponents, you bet your ass it can get things done.

The Jami Turman Fan Club: We're not disagreeing, which is why I'm confused. When you recommend that a company move somewhere cheaper (not related to environmental concerns), you don't recommend China.

I recommend against it, usually. Sometimes, if the product is much like something already being made there, there is no real danger of having your product copied (ie your brand is your value, not your product) and the quickest, dirtiest way to get what they need is to order from somebody already making that type of product - then yes, it may make sense.

I have seen so many horror stories in China that I have a hard time recommending anybody I work with do business there. Granted, my clients are mostly startups and smaller outfits looking to make the jump to the next level, not big corporations with the money and muscle to fight back.

Intellectual Property wise, China is the Wild West. A good example is one case where we paid for tooling of molds for plastic injection of a uniquely shaped plastic doo-dad used in fishing, sold that product over here and then see a knock-off showing up overseas (Europe). We got a hold of one and 20 seconds at the microscope proved it was actually our tool being used. The outfit selling it in Europe traced right back to the factory. We pulled it from them after they denied, denied and denied doing anything less than honorable. The contract said we owned the tooling and would get it back if the contract was cancelled. You know what those farkers did? They cut each individual cavity out of the mold and sent those back - completely worthless.

Som sue them, you say? Ask a lawyer about suing somebody in China. "Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown" is the response. You can sue, win and get a judgement but there is no mechanism for collecting on your judgement.

My main fear for my customers who would want to go to China isn't always the Chinese as much as it is the big boxes and big suppliers who also do business over there. I've seen it more than once that a company makes a better product, fights to get it into the big boxes, moves to China to meet that fulfillment demand and things start smooth. Later, a problem will arise that leaves them unable to fulfill - a situation that can kill a smaller company thanks to how the standard big box contracts are written. If Wal-Mart orders 144 widgets for this store and you ship 143, you don't get docked for being one short, you get hit with huge penalties, penalties that can easily mean death because there is so little margin working with these big boxes to begin with. You can lose an entire month of profit on a line for being a dozen units short. I've seen penalties of 10k over a few hundred dollars of short product.

So, you contact the Big Box and tell the buyer what is going on and guess what? He can't help you, but he knows somebody who can. And he gives you the number of a guy over at their biggest supplier. And what they want is to buy your line out, on the cheap and sometimes you have no choice, facing huge penalties and canceled orders.

You go into Wal-Mart and look at their fishing tackle. Looks like a lot of companies represented there, right? Not really. If you lookinto it you will see that all of those different brands of the same product are owned by maybe two big companies, or one. And a LOT of the guys and gals who built those products, lines and brands up from nothing got screwed out of their business by the ratfarking that goes on with big boxes and China.

Go into your local Big Box fishing store (you know who I am talking about). Look at their house lines. Many of those they came about by getting naive, yet honest, business people to sign a contract that mysteriously they couldn't fulfill on later and now it's part of the house line.

I like to recommend Mexico because, while it can still be kind of Wild Wild West down there, there are legal mechanisms on both sides of the border to help protect you from theft, non-performance etc. It's easy to source or set up your own maquilla that has nothing to do with the other players in the business. Mexicans are good workers, usually educated far beyond anything you will find in mainland Asia. If you don't go in there acting like the gringo who runs the place, and compensate them right they do really good work for you. And it's a LOT easier to keep tabs on your factory with a flight to Laredo and a ride over the border than it is to go to China on a regular basis.

machodonkeywrestler:I think the fact that you don't hear anything, proves that in works in there own way. Don't get me wrong, I would in no way want to live there, but it is pretty efficient in controlling the populace, which seems to be the goal of the Chinese Government.

Which proves that maximizing business friendliness is not a desirable goal. They're controlling their own population as to not offend the multinational companies, which could threaten to leave for another hellhole.

I guess at least in China, they don't have an opposition party who willing to allow the economy to collapse, lose its credit rating and call for outright secession from the country... so there is that.

The Jami Turman Fan Club:SomeoneDumb: Pointing out that something is efficient or works isn't the same as saying you want it. I admittedly just skimmed TFA, but I didn't see any recommendation. Still, I expect Farkers to make inferences for political points.

The Chinese government is a disaster. It only looks like it works from 10,000 feet.

How do you think U.S. citizens would feel if almost 2 million people were kicked out of their homes and promised next to nothing for it? Or create the worst environmental disaster in history, on purpose? Or a trillion dollars for a city that will never be used? Or a capital city that frequently gets inundated with poison gas?

If you think the Chinese government works, try moving there. See if you still feel this way.

This. The guy was an idiot for stating his point that way, and conservatives are bigger idiots for suggesting he is endorsing them.