Big Families: Desired or Undesirable?

A frank discussion with a mother of 11 on the pros and cons of large families.

Living in the exotic Old City of Jerusalem, and needing to make ends meet by renting out our guest room, I have hosted many young, accomplished American women travelers as my boarders. Over herb tea in my kitchen, some have wanted to talk about Eastern religions, some about Israeli politics, and some about feminist issues.

One young woman confided in me her shock and dismay at discovering that most religious families have half a dozen children, and some a full dozen! To her, this was a flagrant violation of her most cherished ideal of zero population growth.

"How can anyone who cares about the future of the planet go about brazenly overpopulating it like this?" she asked me with a combination of disbelief and pique. "I can understand such disregard for the problems of overpopulation in uneducated women living in third world countries, women who have never heard of birth control. But in the religious community here, I've been meeting educated, modern women who make a positive ideal out of large families. Why are so many apparently intelligent women filling up their already cramped apartments and emptying their already depleted pocketbooks in an energetic effort to produce large families?"

Having married a month short of my 39th birthday, I felt blessed to have two children – one born when I was 41, another when I was 46. I certainly was not qualified to expound on the merits or demerits of large families. So I arranged for my vexed boarder to meet with one of my teachers from a Jerusalem women's college, an articulate mother of 11 children. Their encounter took place across my kitchen table.

Q: Given the dire state of overpopulation in the world, isn't it socially irresponsible to give birth to eleven children?

A: It's very easy to attribute all the things that are wrong with the world to external causes. But what's really wrong with the world is violence, avarice, and callousness. All of the problems in the world could be solved if there were good people. It's a qualitative, not a quantitative, issue. The problem isn't that there are too many people. The problem is that there are not enough good, caring people.

If you see the world in purely physical terms, then the more people, the less each one gets.

If you see the world in purely physical terms, then of course, the larger the population, the less resources are available to each person; each one gets a smaller sliver of the pie. But if you see the world in spiritual terms – that the planet is here to provide a setting for souls to learn and grow, and that each soul who comes into this world has a unique mission and shines a unique light – then the more people, the more light.

The issue really is: Do more children bring more light or more darkness? The answer is: It depends on how they are raised and what they are raised towards.

Certainly, the amount of spiritual light in the world is increased by the presence of more good people. Conversely, producing just two children whose basic self-definition is as materialists and consumers, using a disproportionate amount of the world's resources for their physical satisfaction, may deplete the world more than it benefits the world.

Q: If this is indeed the goal of your community, then we should find numerous examples of adults who are significantly helping the world. Is this in fact true?

A: I can tell you about my own family. Of my children who have reached adulthood – all are in the helping professions. Two of my daughters and one of my sons are teachers. My second daughter directs a special education facility. Another daughter stays at home to raise her children, but volunteers a tremendous amount of time and energy finding good foster homes for children in emergency situations.

My second son is still studying, but devotes a lot of time to outreach programs, reaching out to his fellow Jews in order to improve the spiritual quality of their lives, usually without remuneration. My next son is finishing his term of service in the Israeli army, and also gives classes in the evening to youth. By the way, my family is in no way exceptional.

Q: It cannot be that in a family of over ten children that each child gets the attention from the parents – in terms of time and energy – that a child from a smaller family gets. Given that, aren't you depriving your children of the attention they need to develop optimally? And aren't you also depriving them of the enrichments which, let's face it, only money can buy?

A: When you talk about time and energy – as with any other resource, you have to ask how much is required to achieve your goal. If your goal is to heat a house for 24 hours, and you can heat that house with fifty gallons of oil, you wouldn't need to worry about supplying that house with a hundred gallons of oil per day.

One way to gauge if parents are giving enough attention is to look at those children as adults.

One way to gauge if parents are giving their children enough time and attention to produce well-adjusted, secure, reasonably happy, and altruistic adults, is to look at those children when they reach adulthood. If the children are well-adjusted, secure, happy, and altruistic, then whatever amount of time and attention the parents gave them was apparently enough.

Is it accurate to say that children who grow up in small families are happier? More secure? More altruistic? I certainly doubt it.

I have friends with one or two children who tell me that it's a major problem in their neighborhood of a very few children to find a friend for their child to play with every afternoon. And if the friend rejects their child, as can often happen with children, their child's whole self-image crumbles. In large families, where there's always a playmate a couple years older or younger, the problem of making friends does not assume such importance.

The same is true about enrichments which cost money, such as lots of educational toys, computer programs, art lessons, etc. I could argue that these are replacements for having a set of live-in playmates. A brother or sister is a constant source of stimulation, which needs no batteries, never performs an illegal operation (well, not the computer kind, anyway), and teaches a lot about interpersonal relationships.

If you would interview the children of large families, and ask them, "Would you rather have more toys, or another brother or sister? Would you rather have your parents or your siblings sit down and play dominoes with you?" the answers might surprise you.

Q: But doesn't a lot of the security in large families come from the older children raising the younger children? Is this fair to the older children, especially the first daughter, who often has to shoulder much of the responsibility for her younger siblings?

A: There's a metaphysical rule in Judaism that, in terms of material things, the more you give, the less you have, while, in terms of spirituality, the more you give, the more you are. It may be accurate that the older children share the burden of raising their younger siblings, but this often gives them a stronger sense of self-confidence, achievement, and the ability to deal with life.

Older children who help raise younger siblings are more confident and better able to deal with life.

If you actually spent time with a large family, I think you would be impressed at how much joy there is. Of course, every family has their share of squabbles. But, in general, I see a lot of security, sharing, mutual inter-dependence, and laughter in my family and other large families I know.

Q: What about the women themselves? From the time you gave birth to your first child, at age 19, and for the next thirty years, you've had to work incredibly hard at keeping house, raising children, holding down a part-time job, not to mention fulfilling your other obligations. Didn't you ever feel like having a little time for yourself?

A: Certainly the main part of my life has been spent raising my family. If you're comparing me to career women or mothers of small families, the crucial question is: "Is a particular woman's occupation satisfying to her, and does it develop her or leave her time for self-development?"

I can't imagine an occupation which is anywhere nearly as satisfying as building people. Could building bridges, designing clothes, constructing advertising campaigns... could any of these be as personally satisfying as building human beings? Now of course, I could have been a social worker or a psychologist, who also are involved with people, but there my commitment would have been short-term. Isn't a long-term commitment to particular people more satisfying than a revolving door-clientele?

Let's say I had chosen to become a psychologist instead of a mother of a large family. The question remains: Would there be time for other interests? The answer is also the same: It would be difficult, but if I wanted to fit into my schedule an exercise routine, a hobby, or an occasional outing with a friend, I could. No one with a career pursues her own interests all day every day. And neither do I.

Q: You must admit to some level of physical exhaustion. Waking up in the middle of the night to nurse a baby for years, or even decades, on end must take its toll.

A: Exhaustion is a real issue. And the fact is, again, that many other careers demand a tremendous expenditure of energy and time. One doesn't stop brain surgery in the middle to play a round of tennis (hopefully, that is).

This is an issue that has to be dealt with through prioritization. Of course, taking care of oneself is as important as taking care of someone else. No matter what comes up in the afternoons, I give myself a nap from 2 o'clock to 3:30. Everyone in the family knows that mother is resting during that time, and no one dares disturb me. This is a matter of discipline.

A mother of a large family will work herself into exhaustion if she doesn't learn how to prioritize.

Many women fail in this discipline. They feel the need for a nap, but then the phone rings, and they can't resist answering it. Or the baby falls asleep, and instead of jumping into bed that minute, and getting a solid two hours' nap, they decide to "just" do the dishes and "just" fold the laundry, and before they know it, their two hours have disappeared.

Women also have to learn not to sacrifice their rest on the altar of their self-image. In the above example, the mother might feel less of a homemaker if her husband comes home to a sink full of dirty dishes, or the laundry remains unfolded. But, so what? That's what I mean by "prioritization."

Q: Do you have household help?

A: I always had household help, because I work out of the house during the morning hours. I'm a teacher – this is for me a secondary career which I engage in for my own fulfillment. Most of what I earn goes to pay for household help. I don't believe that the mother has to be the one who washes the dishes and folds the laundry.

Q: But you do believe that the mother has to be the one to raise the children. By working outside the home, aren't you hiring someone else to raise your children?

A: In Israel, children go to government preschools from the age of three. It's true that I did leave my toddlers in the morning hours with hired help. But I carefully chose someone whose career was to take care of children, and I paid her a third or more of what I made. In fact, the woman who worked for us for twenty years was regarded like a member of our family. She was an older, childless woman, who treated my children like the grandchildren she never had. I paid her a significant portion of my earnings, far more than the going rate, because I considered top-quality childcare a priority. I considered my children an investment worthy of her.

Q: In almost all countries where people have large families, the government ends up giving large doles to support the children. I understand that the Israeli government gives quite generous child allowances. Isn't this an unfair drain on the taxpayers?

A: The child allowances here are not what most people would consider "quite generous." They amount to around $100 per child, so no family actually lives off the government grant. I would like to point out something about the government's intent. The Israeli government realizes that its greatest resource is people. Israel is not Texas nor Montana. We do not have oil, mineable ore, or miles of rolling fields of grain from sea to shining sea. If Israel is going to succeed, we need highly motivated, able people. Nobody can provide the state with this manpower without having them.

Q: In all honesty, during the years when you were producing children at a rate of one every two years, didn't you feel like a baby machine?

A: I certainly did sometimes feel like I was involved in a cycle of meaningful work that wasn't always spontaneous or exciting, but I would say that this is true in every career. A doctor seeing her fourth earache of the day does not feel the same excitement and inspiration as when performing her first heart surgery. A professor marking the 37th freshman paper on Hamlet may also find it tedious.

I think that the concept of careers outside the home has been overly glamorized. Every career has its monotonous components. And every career has its peak moments of inspiration and creativity. Motherhood is second to none in the frequency of such moments. In all honesty, how could producing a book or a computer program be anywhere nearly as gratifying as producing a human being?

Sara Yoheved Rigler’s all-encompassing online marriage program, “Choose Connection: How to Revive and Rejuvenate Your Marriage” is available to Aish.com readers at a special price. Click here for more info: http://www.jewishworkshops.com/webinars/connection/

About the Author

Sara Yoheved Rigler is a popular international lecturer on subjects of Jewish spirituality. She has given lectures and workshops in Israel, England, France, South Africa, Mexico, Canada, Chile, Panama, and over 35 American cities. She is one of the most popular authors on Aish.com, world’s biggest Judaism website, and is a columnist for Ami Magazine. Sara Yoheved Rigler is the author of five best-sellers: Holy Woman; Lights from Jerusalem; Battle Plans: How to Fight the Yetzer Hara (with Rebbetzin Tziporah Heller); G-d Winked; and Heavenprints . She gives a weekly Marriage Webinar for Jewish Workshops on a spiritual approach to marriage, with hundreds of members throughout the world. She lives in the Old City of Jerusalem. Her newest book, Emunah with Love and Chicken Soup, the story of Henny Machlis, the Brooklyn-born girl who became a Jerusalem legend, was was released in November, 2016. Her website is: sararigler.com.

The opinions expressed in the comment section are the personal views of the commenters. Comments are moderated, so please keep it civil.

Visitor Comments: 63

(62)
diana,
August 9, 2012 1:49 PM

This was a very enlightening article. I am a mother of 9 and needed some encouragement as to to worthiness of having a large family, I homeschool also. I can see here that comparing full time mothering to a career outside of the home is a very worthy comparison. I was encouraged by your "real" evaluation of other careers that a woman might choose. We all think the grass is greener on the other side, we just don't realize that all grass needs to be mowed and for rain to fall on it for it to be green.
Thank you for your honest and encouraging article. I don't feel so much like I have wasted my 33 years of mothering and 26 years of homeschooling as before I read your article.

(61)
Anonymous,
February 18, 2012 8:57 PM

I have no children... nor do i want to create any... I THINK that in light of how much suffering there is it would be extremely selfish and egotistical of me to create anymore people. I would much rather adopt a large family (which i intend to do soon) and help mold them into the wonderful people 'mother of 11' says the world needs. The only difference between an adopted child and one you deliver is your genetics, and I refuse to believe that mine are so much superior that they warrant reproduction. IMHO its about ego, not tikun olam. Or maybe just thoughtlessness. I cant fix the world, but at least i will not add to its problems.

(60)
Anonymous,
December 6, 2009 1:38 AM

It isn't We versus They. We are in this Together.

We shouldn't tell someone who doesn't want a family that they must have children. We shouldn't tell someone who wants many children that they shouldn't have them. Who can set a number on something as important as conception of a child? As long as we are responsible adults and responsible parents who can decide our family size better than us? - - - - - -
If you don't want children then don't have them. Every child deserves to be wanted. If you can't afford children don't have them. Each child deserves food, shelter, healthcare, love, and education. If you have room in your home for many children and can feed and raise them to be responsible adults, that is a great blessing. - - - - - - - -
If you don't have a stable marriage or a proper home or finances to rear children, then it's not fair to the child or the community to have more. Look at the Jewish children being fed in Israel because they are poor. There are wonderful people there who feed and clothe and care for these kids, but nothing can compare with a loving family to give a child what it needs. In America a family of 4 can't feed, clothe, house, have healthcare, and educate their children on $30,000. a year. To raise a larger family here is very difficult if you are not financially secure. I don't know about wages and healthcare and education costs in Israel. - - - - - - - - -
For those worried about overpopulation, and overcrowding. When that happens in any area of the world, disease also happens. Humans don't live well packed together. History recounts many times this has happened. Immigrants here in America were crowded into small tenements and ghettos in the cities before they branched out and resettled. New York is still densely populated, as are Singapore, much of India, and many other countries and cities. G-d has a way of evening things out if we overpopulate. He gives us wake-up incidents and hopes we will heed his warnings.

(59)
Chana Siegel,
December 4, 2009 12:15 PM

Large Family=Economy of Scale

Mom of 5 here. I know for a fact that, comparing our lifestyle with most smaller families we know, we are "greener" and more energy-efficient by far. We pass down and share clothes, books, school supplies, and everything but diapers. My mother, whose guiding principle was "Use it up, wear it our, make it do, or do without" was green before it was cool.

(58)
Josh,
December 4, 2009 3:30 AM

Such EMES!!! and a response to number 56.

I was so impressed with the responses from the “mother of 11.” They were intelligent, well articulated, and crystal clear. Thank you, to both the author of this article and “the mother of 11,” for giving me a better understanding of this topic and responses to give when asked these types of questions. As a BT, I can understand the train of thought of the young lady asking the questions in the article. When a person's view on life is based on the material and only on what he/she can see, the questions posed are significant. But when viewing life through the Torah, and seeing that life is not about the material but rather about fulfilling Hashem's commandments, we see that not only are these questions really not questions, but they aren't even worries. How can we worry about using all of the Earth's resources when the planet has been populated for the last 5,700 plus years and we still have food to eat, water to drink, clothing to wear, and shelter to live in? True, we have to live responsibly and not waste the resources Hashem gave up, but if G-d wanted us to get married and have children and continue this process for thousands of years, don't you think He would have made the world in such a way that it could sustain His master plan?

(57)
Anonymous,
December 3, 2009 1:44 PM

Western societies fading away because of small family size

European countries and even the United States are not producing enough children to perpetuate themselves. The nature of these societies is changing - with the majority of the young people coming from immigrant families and ethnic groups who do have many children. This creates an economic problem as in many cases there aren't enough young workers to support the older workers in their retirement.

(56)
Bill Merrill,
December 2, 2009 6:34 PM

math problems

I can see here that for the author of this article, a quite large family is not a "problem". But my logical mind looks at the larger picture. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, can grow forever. When people kill all the animals that hunt deer (bobcats, cougars, wolves, etc) in the forest, the deer will eventually eat so much of the forest that soon there will be very little plant life able to grow there, and then the deer will start to die of starvation. Looking at the larger scale, it is simply not possible for the human population to increase forever on a planet that's not getting any bigger. It doesn't matter how "light" our ecological footprint is, eventually sheer numbers will overtake anything. Nothing can grow forever on a planet of unchanging size, whether it's a forest or an animal population or an economy. This is not a difficult math problem, but it is perhaps the most difficult emotional problem of them all. Perhaps this is our challenge as humans - to overcome our hardwired emotions in order to use our God given brains to preserve God's creation.

(55)
sara,
December 2, 2009 4:10 PM

I am th 4th in a family of 7, K'H. My siblings are my biggest supporters as well as their spouses. But, I'm afraid, that it has affected my adult relationships; I have have a hard time knowing what it is I want or need. I am no good at debating something of importance (Yiddishkeit with the antagonistic). I very often feel unfulfilled and feel there is something lacking. I want my children to know someone is listening to them and their feelings are justified.

(54)
Shai,
December 2, 2009 8:32 AM

A Big family is great!

A Big Family a tribe of kids is great especially if the Mother and Father are caring and have the "koach" strength and "gesudeniut" health take their roles of Jewish parents seriously.
It may not be for everyone especially those with health problems and we should judge those who want a big families but married late or became 'frum' late or have ill health.
The lifestyle folk who prefer a dog to another kid have it all wrong!

(53)
Talmidah,
December 1, 2009 9:36 PM

big families/small families

I am the mother of two very exceptional teens. They are both miricles as we lost 6 children before they were born, and one more after. I am the oldest of five children, but we did not get along, alot depends on the mother. my two get along, and teach others . they are mostly helpful, and can talk and interact well with both adults and other children. THey are thankful, and reach out to help others in need. We may not have been able to have all the children, but the ones we have know they were part of a larger idea of what a family can be.

(52)
Miriam,
November 30, 2009 2:51 PM

Fabulous article!

Honest articulate and inspiring article. Thank you. I do have to say, from looking around at families where I live, in Lakewood, NJ, that there are unbelievable very large families with amazing kids, each one of whom could run a country, never mind their own future large families. But I do also see families who should have taken much bigger breaks between children, in my humble opinion. Kids get lost, marriages suffer, etc. Chazak VeAmatz to the awesome interviewee!

(51)
Anonymous,
November 30, 2009 2:06 PM

Me too

I too have many siblings, and as one of the oldest, I had my share of responsibility. I learned love, caring, responsibility for the important things in life, and that the best times are in shared laughter and caring support. Additionally, cognizant of the concept of ba'al tashchis (not to waste), I think we used less resources than many people I know with one child! I think large families learn early on not to waste...When I look at my family, and see how many of us have dedicated our lives to bettering other people's lives, I realize how valuable and precious our upbringing of caring for each other really was. I do NOT believe that Hashem cannot support us through the ecosystems...

(50)
Anonymous,
November 30, 2009 3:04 AM

There are all kinds

I just wonder what happens when thousands of people die in natural disasters and wars every year. Do the population control busybodies retabulate their supposedly accurate information? I think G-d does have ways of running this world.
Now for my thoughts: Having a large family doesn't automatically make you a more spiritual or understanding parent. Some children grow up suffering in such an environment while others love it. It really depends on the parents although I do think children that grow up in large families are alot less self-centered and easier to get along with as they have learned a very important life lesson: The World Does Not Revolve Around YOU! As one of seven siblings and the mother of six I can say that is is alot of work but isn't everything worthwhile something that you have to work for?

(49)
Rachel,
November 30, 2009 2:46 AM

Mom of 11 has some incorrect assumptions

From the interviewee's statement that the world needs more good people, it can be inferred that, with the exception of Orthodox Jews, a lot of the large families in the world are composed of uncaring, bad people -- I hope this is not what she meant!
I know that I was not a planned child (b/c I'm adopted), and believe me, it's hard to get past the fact that one's biological family saw one as an accident. If I weren't here -- well, so what? I don't mean that in the sense that murder is ok, but in the sense that if people practice birth control, they're not bringing an unwanted child into the world.
Finally -- in the U.S., where there is no state aid to private schools, one would have to be well-off indeed to be able to afford tuition for so many children. While this may be a good enough reason for some to make aliyah, some of us have other equally valid reasons (e.g. aging parents in need of our assistance) for not doing so. I just hope this article doesn't add to the trend among some to look down on smaller families within the Orthodox community, or to assume that women who work outside the home are doing it for materialistic reasons.

(48)
mother of 10,
November 29, 2009 11:39 PM

reproductive freedom

As a mother of 10 and a midwife, I have always said that the true reproductive freedom is for women to have as many children as they want! No freedom in allowing others to determine the right number for her.

(47)
Anonymous,
November 29, 2009 8:27 PM

1. Regarding the world's resources, there is not a problem with overpopulation but rather with overconsumption. It is the western world with its low birth rates that is using most of the world's resources. So anyone who is ecologically concerned and responsible should first and foremost be reducing their own carbon footprint. (http://www.carbonfootprint.com/carbonfootprint.html)
2. Whilst the world population may be increasing exponentially, the Jewish people has been severely depleted following thousands of years of persecution (and more recently through assimilation). Thus, any Jewish woman who is able to have a large family is contributing to a Jewish future. All Jews who care about our future should feel grateful to these women. Not only are they not selfish, they are incredibly self-sacrificing.
3. I think that it is good that the point was stressed in the article that a mother of many children has to be very careful to take care of herself. If a woman is up to the task, it's great, but unfortunately, due to social pressure, some women end up with many kids and are physical and emotional wrecks.
4. " there are not enough good, caring people": I disagree with this. There are many wonderful people all over the world. The problems is that they are not the people in positions of power.

(46)
Anonymous,
November 29, 2009 7:30 PM

I applaud the articulation of this mother!
It certainly isn't easy raising 11 children, I know as I also have 11. What I can say is there is nothing as beautiful as watching my children, several of which are parents themselves, sitting around a table and enjoying each other's company. They are there for one another, their children love playing with their cousins, and that harmony is worth millions.
My children have contributed to the world in many ways, in the armed forces, teaching, and building the country.
As far as pollution goes, most wore cloth diapers, we wash dishes and don't smoke. But isn't that a silly way to measure the worth of a human? If so, maybe pets should be eliminated, they also breathe, pollute and use up the Earth's resources!
If only we could see the positive aspect of life, we would would all benefit. My prayers go to those that would love to be a mother of a large family and haven't been able to see that happen.
Thank you for a very inspiring article, as usual Sara!

(45)
Tova Saul,
November 29, 2009 7:08 PM

Biodiversity not taken into account

This article looks at large families from the point of view of immediate human physical and psychological health. But if the perspective is bumped further outwards to take into account what 1 billion more peope on the planet in the next 12 years will mean for the world's already vanishing biodiversity, the inevitable conclusion is that you cannot have a constantly expanding human population and still have the precious ecosystems that support Hashem's stunning array of plant and animal life. Even the mainstream Jewish environmental movement is myopic when it comes to the excruciating tragedy of the forever loss of species due to habitat destruction due to expanding populations. Israel is a perfect mini-example of what is happening worldwide. Wondrous ecosystems are being paved and farmed over, fragmenting habitats, and wiping out species. We have gone from 2 original people to a crushing 7 billion. Be fruitful and multiply? Mission accoplished.

(44)
Sharon,
November 29, 2009 11:21 AM

I'm envious

I had only one sister who was 4 years my senior but had little to do with me outside of fighting. My Mom was quite authoritative demanding complete order. So I came to be a permissive mother of 5. Though I thought I should have had more, I find these 5 difficult. They are mostly respectful, good, kind children (two are yound adults), but I always felt a little "out of control." I worked outside the home, but even when I once stayed home for two years, I felt that I wasn't using my time well. A large family is not for everyone, but those who succeed in it are certainly to be admired.

(43)
Stephanie,
August 10, 2009 4:49 AM

The grass is always greener

I come from a large family. While i hear my own mother in this article, i find it quite subjective.

(42)
Kimberly,
November 12, 2008 11:41 AM

Texas' greatest resource is people, too!

I loved this conversation and the points made through it ... but although no, Israel is not Texas or Montana, I must say we have in common that our greatest resource is our people, too. And the points the mom made in this conversation are salient to us, too. Personally, I think those of us who are otherwise stable and responsible know intuitively when it's time to call it quits on childbearing. For me, it was after the fourth. However, I think it is both fascinating and irritating that people otherwise committed to tolerance are so intolerant of people who have --- and care for --- many children.

(41)
Tracy (Australia),
February 24, 2008 6:00 PM

Hardened Feminism

I wonder how the interviewer will see things in years to come - when she realises that she has been wronged and deluded by antiquated feminist notions - and that the biological clock has ceased to tick?? It always bemuses me to note that whilst feminists claim to support CHOICES for women - that this is RARELY the case in reality. Otherwise this "debate" would not have occurred, would it?

malarie (Australia),
June 19, 2012 3:22 AM

i COULDNT AGREE MORE!

i absolutley agree, i feel like in the chase for the doller we have collectively all but given up the right to raise our own children.

(40)
Anonymous,
December 31, 2007 3:44 PM

Large families are nice

My husband and I have 3 children with the fourth on the way. I disagree that large families use up more resources. The amount of resources a person uses seems to have more to do with how much money they have than with how many children they have. I bet a family of 4 that makes twice as much as my family of 6 uses more natural resources.

(39)
Karla de Botelho Barbosa,
September 25, 2007 9:15 AM

why is it selfish?

Having lots of children is lovely! I've got 6 and I'm very happy with them! Believe it or not, I'd even like to have one more... People look at me as if I'm crazy, specially here in China, but I don't care.

(38)
Lise St-Denis,
June 5, 2007 12:54 PM

LOVED IT

I absolutely loved reading the discussion of big families. I have 8 children of my own and feel truly blessed. I often put up with negative comments having to justify/explain that I welcome God's gifts. Because my children are truly little miracles. It isn't to say that it's always easy being a wife and mother but neither is any other profession. Every single human being has their crosses to bear. How many comments do I get like "Wow! I only have 2 kids and I can't even handle that! How do you do it?" It really comes down to what your priorities are. Children are expensive? (education is expensive). But all in all what I have is: a roof over our heads, food to eat, love, laughter and sharing. One day at a time, we have what we need.

(37)
Jen,
May 15, 2007 5:48 PM

uplifting

Beautiful, eloquent answers to rude, distasteful questions.

(36)
Jen,
May 15, 2007 5:48 PM

uplifting

Oh, and for the one who read the article then ignorantly repeated 11 kids are bad on Earth and its resources---I will repeat for the author that it is how those 11 choose to relate to their outer world w/the inner skills that makes the difference. Kinda like how there have billions upon billions of us to populate Earth for thousands upon thousands of years, yet littered cigarette butts, plastic soda bottles, disposable diapers, began accummulating only in my lifetime. Smog is now visible from space, oil spills marr waters, etc...

(35)
Alex,
March 25, 2007 6:25 AM

Very Inspiring

Hi thank you. I only grew up with one sister we were one year and one day apart. When we were young we would wish that my mother would adopt a baby since we understood that she couldn't have one. My mother supported us, worked full time and we were always making ends meet. I am very thankful that my parents had another child despite our hardship when my parents separated. I have a good friend whose an only child in a two income home and still she feels deprived and worse lonley. I have 3 daughters now and I can't tell how many more children I'll have. Yes I recognize that the earth's resources are are stretched but so is its man power. My children are environmentally concious and concencious. I agree we must raise poeple with good hearts. This article inspired me since I don't have any example of large families. Thank you. May God bless you and your loved ones always. Thanks again.

(34)
Rachael,
February 22, 2007 10:06 AM

i love my big family

i am the oldest of 7 children, the youngest being born just a month ago, and i am overjoyed at my big family. with 2 little brothers and 4 little sisters, i am never board! there is always laughter at our houses, (moms house and dads house), and i get paid a lot in babysitting money! but i cant believe some people think that large families are a bad thing. if you cant support that many children, then fine, thats a problem. but not every big family has that problem. if you can take care of 12 children, have 12 children! i think big families are fantastic, but if you dont, dont have one.

(33)
roseanna,
January 27, 2007 1:49 PM

Such a helpful article. I am 3 months pregnant for my second. My first is 9 months old (and is a joy... so good and ALWAYS smiling). I have to deal with a lot of confused and some very negative reactions and this article has helped me to explain a bit to firm aetheists that it's not all bad news (my present pregnancy). My husband is elated. We are far from being rich but I don't think winning the lottery could equal the happiness we are experiencing (especially as the morning sickness is over!). My parents had nine, I hope to follow their example because we all love one another and would do anything for one another! God bless. Ps I am a physiotherapist with a large and faithful clientelle but for the next three years it's hometime.

(32)
AngelaGaddis,
October 7, 2006 10:02 PM

Wow.

I am a mother of two. I always wanted lots of kids until I had one and then I thought "I'm not cut out for this." Then I had another and have been blessed by the desire to have more. This article hit on every point that is so important to me as a mother. I can only hope that I can say the same things about my children when they are grown. I think large families offer life lessons that can never be taught except by experience. Thank you.

(31)
Reba,
November 14, 2005 12:00 AM

standing ovation

I was very inspired by the debate as I am a mother of 7 children ages 1-11.It reconfirmed in my mind the conclusions I also have contemplated.Also you have blessed me with more points of reasoning for those so called intellectual persons who are so quick to cast judgement.I never go around commenting on their lack of sound judgement for only having 1.8 children.
It is wonderfull to here an intelligent woman articulate herself so well.G-D bless your family!
sincerely,Reba

(30)
jamie jakubczyk,
September 15, 2005 12:00 AM

this is how it really is.

i am the third eldest in a family of eleven and i can honestly say that this mother's account of large family life is true. there is no danger to the enviorment, the children, or the mother as most people think. my parents brought up beautiful, caring, and unselfish children. i loved growing up in a big family, there is no other way i would have wanted to be brought up. my mom is wonder woman and my dad is superman in my eyes.

(29)
Louise Edwards,
July 24, 2005 12:00 AM

thanks!

Thank you for a beautiful tribute to motherhood and large families.I hope our hurting world pays attention.

(28)
Barbara Curtis,
January 22, 2005 12:00 AM

Mommy Life -- A blog by mother of 12

I'm a mother of 12, originally trained as a Montessori teacher. Some of your readers might be interested in my blog Mommy Life at
http://megamommy.typepad.com/mommylife/

(27)
Anonymous,
November 20, 2004 12:00 AM

love above all

I am one of 8 children. My oldest sister is 24 and youngest brother is 9. I am in the middle. I would not have it any other way. Each of my siblings is different and unique and my mom has taken the time to go to school as well as care for us all. Being in a big family helps not only with learning to give of oneself for the better of others but it allows me to learn to forgive others mistakes and love again. I encourage all women to have more than 2 kids. All my friends at school have one or no siblings and sadly have no idea of what they are missing out on! To you reader: Love above all...which is an outpouring of yourself.

(26)
susanna,
October 24, 2004 12:00 AM

More blessings not more problems!!!

As the eldest of 13 children[17 yrs,youngest 3 months,I do not find it a problem -helping out at home.there's always someone to help etc.i find that i have a perspective on life and priorities that friends in college are still struggling to find.there are slight problems,embarassing things but if I have a choice, siblings win over 'things' everytime.

(25)
Pronatalist,
July 3, 2004 12:00 AM

pro-population Reply to "population impact"

It would be quite responsible for people to let and desire for their families to grow large, even in a world bursting to hold large numbers of people. The Bible says that it is the heathen that worry about "What should we wear? What should we eat?" God knows we have need of those things. God can provide for a burgeoning world of 13 billion people, just as easy as today's 6.4 billion. People can still be fed and housed, no matter the overall population size. More population may make the world more urbanized, or make humans even more the dominant lifeform, but for humans, what could be wrong with that? It would be better to stack people into highrises, than to try to set arbitary, anti-life limits on what human population should be. It really is up to God. And like somebody said, what the world needs is not fewer people, but more caring and moral people. So especially the people who love children, and would train them with good morals, and those with experience parenting (those having big families anyways), would seem the best people to be letting their families grow large naturally. More and more people would be glad to live, and that should have been the prime population concern, and reason to celebrate with each population milestone the world might officially cross. Whenever they announce the official birth of earth's 7 or 8 billionth citizen, I believe it most appropriate that we celebrate, and keep having as many children as ever. Population "stabilization" is really stagnation, and a sorry sign of a selfish world, with little concern for future generations that could exist. Population growth has been good for humanity, throughout history, and helped accelerate the technology growth for so many inventions we often take for granted now.

That the world is already filled with huge numbers of people, really doesn't matter much to a baby who would much want to be born. Babies want to be born and live regardless of the possible "crowding." Less crowded, or more crowded, isn't really the issue, but whether a child gets to be born or not. It doesn't hurt especially young children, to share beds for a while, because there are so many of them, and their current home is rather small. Better housing can come later, but children can't come later, because fertility is a fragile blessing from God, that declines quickly with advancing age. And with cities only occupying but 2 or 3% of the land, there's much room for the human population to grow much denser, upon the planet. It's not that the planet needs *more population*, but the people do, and there is certainly much room for still far more people yet.

And if people want to be concerned with "environment," what about the "environment" of their own bodies? Why should we be polluting our bodies with cigarettes or experimental "birth control" chemicals and hormones, rather than welcoming our reproductive system to function normally? Why deny human life needlessly? If babies come, they come. Human life should be too sacred to interfere with. I think most people who post here about why they want large families, aren't expressing some desire to populate the world to its full capacity, but something more about how wonderful having children is, such that they don't fear that they might have many children. That's much the way it should be. Large families are a rich experience, and it is good for children to have brothers and sisters. It helps them mature to be better parents even if they marry young and not think the world is a huge hedonistic party, and I would think growing up in a large family, better conditions people for living and thriving in a populous world. It also promotes the Christian concept of "the just shall live by faith." So isn't God the wisest that God should be welcomed to determine our family sizes for us?

(24)
robyn pinchak,
November 3, 2003 12:00 AM

This sums up my feelings as a mother of nine.Thank you for posting it.

I have enjoyed this discussion.

(23)
Shanna,
October 23, 2003 12:00 AM

Looks like the feminist got shut down.

I am from a family of ten and thought the mother's answers were wonderful. Big families are a blessing. Just as mother Teresa once said: "Saying there's too many children is like saying there's too many flowers."

(22)
M. Ferreira,
October 5, 2003 12:00 AM

I appluade you!

To have all the children that G-d wants you to have and bringing them up as good as possible, is bringing honour to His name and the most responsible something any married person can do. All people need to value life as it was intended at creation - the result would be that the whole world would be a better, happier place. We were to fill the earth and who are we to decide that the earth is now "full". That is the prerogative of the Almighty God of Israel alone.

(21)
Pronatalist,
October 2, 2003 12:00 AM

Human population growth should be welcomed as great progress!

Large families should be encouraged worldwide, at least for the benefit of "the many" who could not have been born otherwise.

Big families allow all the more people to live and enjoy life. Obviously, wouldn't that have to be a very good thing? Even if "population pressures" "strain" the planet?

Population growth seems to me to be a vicious circle, but not in the negative way so often portrayed. Rather, population growth accelerates technology growth, and the more populated we get, the better we get at accomodating large populations.

(20)
Takeya,
April 10, 2003 12:00 AM

Mother of 5

I am a 28 year old mother of 5, married 9 years I believe that my children will be able to adapt better to the 'real world' because they learn more about reality dealing with each other on a daily basis. My oldest daughter is 9, I have 6 year old twin girls, 5 and 2 year old sons. I wouldn't have it any other way. Selfish to me would be to watch your child growing up lonely or better yet you growing old lonely. If you feel like having children violates your body, then adopt....someone else has violated their body just for you! :-)

(19)
Heather Hoover,
September 19, 2002 12:00 AM

Confirmation

I have two children and am thinking about having more; going for the "big family". I have been so torn up, just wondering how it will effect my children. Will it disrupt their joy? Cause jealousy? I have an endless tornado of thoughts. I want to make the right decision. I want to experience a large family but I've been scared for how it will effect them. This article and the comments have really helped me sort things out. I think I'm going to go for it. Thanks!!!

(18)
Michelle McCrary,
September 12, 2002 12:00 AM

BIg family's equal LOVE

I have 5 children, we plan on one more, we live in the Oklahoma, it is VERY odd around here to have more than 3 kids. I have neices who tell me how "amazed" they are with me. And the look of shock when people see that I have gone to the store with all 5 kids and with out my husband. We have always wanted a big family, my husband says we are "improving the gene pool". which is sorta what the mother in the artcle said, we raise well mannered, kind hearted people who will in turn improve the world. I am not Jewish, or Catholic, or Mormon, we get asked that ALL THE TIME. My older children do complain about "chores" but they are only 8 years old and 6 years old, they do NOT help raise thier siblings. They clean up thier rooms, pick up the bathroom, and help the younger two learn how to clean thier room.
I asked my 8 year old soon, would you rather have more toys or another sibling, he very quickly said another sibling. I also asked him about who he would rather play with one of his parents or a sibling, and he grin and said a sibling. My kids never have to worry about finding someone to play with, they always have a friend.

I am not a house keeper, I am a MOTHER I think they are totaly different. My house is nearly never "perfect" and there are always dirity dishes and clothes in my house. I do not polute the world, because I use clothe diapers, and breasfeed and reuse toys and clothes through not only my kids but my sister's 3 children as well. I do wonder about havieng 6 teens and pre teens in the house but I supose I will learn how to handle it one day at a time, just like I do everyday.

I wouldn't trade my family for any 6 figure income.

(17)
Big families are cool!,
August 7, 2002 12:00 AM

Large families needed so more people can live.

Large families, even in heavily populated areas, are quite responsible. Sure, with the number of people now on earth, we should be a little careful about how we handle resources and wastes. But large families allow more people to live, and most everyone wants to live.

More people living is more people who can enjoy life. I think most people would much rather be overcrowded, than not born at all because there were fewer births. So work to improve things and develop and accomodate people, but there is no use in limiting family size or birthrates. Humans are far too important to interfere with their creation.

(16)
Anonymous,
July 24, 2001 12:00 AM

We have to see the beuity in LIFE

As an oldest child of a large family I used to "suffer" from a similar outlook towards large families, considering it unfair to both the enviroment and the older children in the family. I found your article interesting and inspiring.
My attitude has changed over the past few years,now, I'm looking forward to being a mother of many children one day, soon.

(15)
Anonymous,
July 13, 2001 12:00 AM

population impact

The world could be filled with saints and the very best, loving, sharing people possible and large families would still be irresponsible. We have a finite amount of topsoil and usable water. All the sharing on earth will not change that.
The earth may hold large numbers of people but those numbers need to be fed, sheltered, clothed, etc. and that is the problem part with resources....the earth is not a bottomless purse.

(14)
Anonymous,
June 5, 2001 12:00 AM

Bravo!

Thank you for such an intelligent, coherent articulation of what I have known and believed for a long time, but did not know how to put into words.

(13)
Anonymous,
February 20, 2001 12:00 AM

Thank You

I really enjoyed this article and it cleared up a lot of issues i had with women in Judaism.

Frayda Laufer

(12)
Jane Nelson,
February 8, 2001 12:00 AM

Also a mother of 11

Also a mother of 11, I applaud almost every word of this article. I have never found it necessary to pursue a career "for my own fulfillment" as this mother did. My life is filled with so much variety and joy, that any outside interests pale by comparison. As my oldest children reach adulthood, I stand in awe of them. I feel the deepest sense of accomplishment possible.
To me, one of the saddest parts of this movement toward tiny families, is all the wisdom and experience that is lost as parents raise a set of children to adulthood, gain great understanding and perspective and then never use it to bless the lives of other children. Just when they understand what parenting is all about, they quit!
When I see my teen-age son come home from work and dance around the living room with the baby--kissing and cuddling her, I understand why teens are so lost today. They can't make these appropriate, intimate connections with another human being. There aren't any babies in their world.
The deepest and most important traits are being fostered in our home--the ability to nurture, to sacrifice, to connect purely, to love. Violin, piano, football and art are a part of their training as well, but really, what will prepare them more for marriage, parenthood and life than sharing a bedroom, doing without and giving, giving, giving. That is the essence of life in a big family.

(11)
Anonymous,
January 23, 2001 12:00 AM

older children do get an unfair share of labor

As an older child I can say that by the time I was eighteen I had raised five siblings. And while I love them dearly, sometimes it was overwhelming. I had to do laundry, clean the house, bathe the kids, dress the kids, be home all the time to help, babysit and generally restrict my outside life because of my siblings. I think people should have children, but not more than they can handle. Older siblings can, AND SHOULD, HELP, but they should not have to become little mothers because of theur mother's choices.

(10)
Anonymous,
September 3, 2000 12:00 AM

test comment

test comment from Mike

(9)
beth hausen,
July 16, 2000 12:00 AM

THE AUTHOR RESPONDS

Dear Jens,

Your assumption is that limited resources and environment problems, which only increase with every generation, make life miserable for the third-world countries, and will make it unbearable for the 7th generation down the line.

My experience challenges this assumption. I lived for a long time in India, among people who were very, very poor in terms of what they owned and what they used. With no advertising industry to tell them what they should want, they were very happy, content people. (That's not my assessment; that was their assessment of themselves.) It's a modern Western fabrication that a human being's happiness and fulfillment is in direct correlation to how many resources are available for him/her to exploit. If people in the third world are miserable, it's because this Western notion has been crammed down their throats.

And to prove this point I need go no further than the large families which this article talks about. Yes, they do go through a lot of diapers, but that's about the limit of their conspicuous consumption. Most of these big families do not own cars, do not eat red meat except for the hagim three times a year, recycle clothes and toys through at least four children, and live four or five kids to a room with one light bulb. AND on the whole, they're happy and content and do not suffer feelings of deprivation (because everyone in their neighborhoods lives the same way). If our 7th generation has to live like they do, they'll be just fine.

Best regards,
Sara Rigler'

(8)
ERIC GOLDMAN,
July 12, 2000 12:00 AM

I COMMEND LARGE FAMILIES

I am the mother of two children and for me, they are plenty. I do, however, commend couple who is able to have and nurture a large family. When a couple decides to have a large family they are choosing a life style that suits their relationship. If a couple were to choose to travel all the time no one would say that this is a hinderance to their relationship so why are children viewed that way? My husband and I know our limitations and have made choices that suit our family. I would never make judgements about another couples' choice. As for the earth? Well, I'd rather see large families "polluting" the earth than to see large companies truly polluting our air and water and land. Do need to focus on fighting pollution? Absolutely. Let's start with cleaning up our air, water and land. Let's focus on tikkun olam and leave the large families alone.

(7)
Anonymous,
July 10, 2000 12:00 AM

Thank you! We "only" have four children (which is considered an awful lot around here already) but I very much agree with the views and ideas presented by the mother. Why is it that in the eyes of many "enlightened" people, mothers still have to justify their choice of being a full-time mother? Anyway, this article gives valued insights to share!

(6)
Anonymous,
July 10, 2000 12:00 AM

On the one hand, each woman has to know her strength; there is no wisdom in a "washed out rag" having 15 children that she cannot deal with, whereas many women would not put themselves in such a league. When I had two children, I wondered how on earth I could cope with 3; when I had 3 I wondered how I would cope with 4 . . . and you know what - I not only coped but can't wait for the next!

(5)
Nicola Bookey,
July 10, 2000 12:00 AM

How can a life of giving be selfish?

I am astonished by the person who wrote, having read the article, that having children is selfish. I, too (like the woman who wrote the article), married late. I inherited two children, and had three of my own (I also lost one along the way). The one refrain I am constantly hearing from my children is "When we have another baby ...", "When there is another girl/boy in the family ..." or even more directly, "Ima [the Hebrew word for mother], when are you having another baby?". I love children. By the way, I am professionally qualified, with large numbers of degrees and post-graduate qualifications. I am liberated. Having children, and bringing them up only serves to liberate you more.

(4)
Anonymous,
July 10, 2000 12:00 AM

Despite the hashkafa that the universe..

..is "made for humans", the nice reality of tons of people includes global environmental problems, an increase in population in the most resource-consuming countries (that means us), already draining the rest of the world
dry (if you've ever wondered how we live as we do
in the West, its on the backs of the other 7/8ths of the world). Sure, kids give us the sense that our human efforts are worthwhile, that we bring souls into the universe, but thats FAR less than half the story. The talk of "stewardship" is lipservice when you recognize the amount of disposable diapers, plastic dishes, broken toys, agri-business meat and produce, utilities drain, ad infinitum..all to the end of creating MORE people who will further the cycle? How do you think the 7th generation from you is going to live? Short of Messiah, it won't be a pretty picture. If the idea is quality people, why not make a FEW really good baalei tshuvah, who then have 3-4 quality kids? whats the HARM in a happy medium? Whats the error in following the halakhah, that you have fulfilled the mitzvah "to be fruitful and multiply" with one boy and one girl?

(3)
Renee Kohn,
July 9, 2000 12:00 AM

very nice and well said

Most people in "helping professions" hope to affect the lives of a few people in the course of
their careers. Motherhood is the ultimate creative
"helping profession'. Not enough emphasis is placed upon the concept that motherhood and housework do not go hand in hand. In fact the mother who is doing the majority of housework while she has raised a few adolescent children, has failed to raise the self sufficient, capable
young adults she has hoped to raise.

I also get more than a few professional, liberated
(so they think) female guests. I ask them to visit the nursing home with me where they will see
all the women who "took plenty of time for themselves". Thank you for your wonderful article

(2)
Anonymous,
July 9, 2000 12:00 AM

Any family is Good

My wife cannot have children, this is the saddest part of her life, anyone who criticizes families should take a look at hose who can't. The same is true with my brother's wife, she would give all in her life away just to have a child. There is no higher calling. Thank you for the article.

(1)
Kathe Moore,
July 9, 2000 12:00 AM

Having too many children is selfish

11 children is not good for the earth, the children, or the parents. A marriage needs tending, just as children do. The earth is straining with ecological and resource problems.

My nephew is having his bar mitzvah and I am thinking of a gift. In the old days, the gift of choice was a fountain pen, then a Walkman, and today an iPod. But I want to get him something special. What do you suggest?

The Aish Rabbi Replies:

Since this event celebrates the young person becoming obligated in the commandments, the most appropriate gift is, naturally, one that gives a deeper understanding of the Jewish heritage and enables one to better perform the mitzvot! (An iPod, s/he can get anytime.)

With that in mind, my favorite gift idea is a tzedakah (charity) box. Every Jew should have a tzedakah box in his home, so he can drop in change on a regular basis. The money can then be given to support a Jewish school or institution -- in your home town or in Israel (every Jews’ “home town”). There are beautiful tzedakah boxes made of wood and silver, and you can see a selection here.

For boys, a really beautiful gift is a pair of tefillin, the black leather boxes which contain parchments of Torah verses, worn on the bicep and the head. Owning a pair of Tefillin (and wearing them!) is an important part of Jewish identity. But since they are expensive (about $400), not every Bar Mitzvah boy has a pair. To make sure you get kosher Tefillin, see here.

In 1944, the Nazis perpetrated the Children's Action in the Kovno Ghetto. That day and the next, German soldiers conducted house-to-house searches to round up all children under age 12 (and adults over 55) -- and sent them to their deaths at Fort IX. Eventually, the Germans blew up every house with grenades and dynamite, on suspicion that Jews might be in hiding in underground bunkers. They then poured gasoline over much of the former ghetto and incinerated it. Of the 37,000 Jews in Kovno before the Holocaust, less than 10 percent survived. One of the survivors was Rabbi Ephraim Oshri, who later published a stirring collection of rabbinical responsa, detailing his life-and-death decisions during the Holocaust. Also on this date, in 1937, American Jews held a massive anti-Nazi rally in New York City's Madison Square Garden.

In a letter to someone who found it difficult to study Torah, the 20th century sage the Chazon Ish wrote:

"Some people find it hard to be diligent in their Torah studies. But the difficulty persists only for a short while - if the person sincerely resolves to submerge himself in his studies. Very quickly the feelings of difficulty will go away and he will find that there is no worldly pleasure that can compare with the pleasure of studying Torah diligently."

Although actions generally have much greater impact than thoughts, thoughts may have a more serious effect in several areas.

The distance that our hands can reach is quite limited. The ears can hear from a much greater distance, and the reach of the eye is much farther yet. Thought, however, is virtually limitless in its reach. We can think of objects millions of light years away, and so we have a much greater selection of improper thoughts than of improper actions.

Thought also lacks the restraints that can deter actions. One may refrain from an improper act for fear of punishment or because of social disapproval, but the privacy of thought places it beyond these restraints.

Furthermore, thoughts create attitudes and mindsets. An improper action creates a certain amount of damage, but an improper mindset can create a multitude of improper actions. Finally, an improper mindset can numb our conscience and render us less sensitive to the effects of our actions. We therefore do not feel the guilt that would otherwise come from doing an improper act.

We may not be able to avoid the occurrence of improper impulses, but we should promptly reject them and not permit them to dwell in our mind.

Today I shall...

make special effort to avoid harboring improper thoughts.

With stories and insights,
Rabbi Twerski's new book Twerski on Machzor makes Rosh Hashanah prayers more meaningful. Click here to order...