Linux_Yes:if Obama can do surgical strikes with no american boots on the ground, they i support it. if not, then no. but to do nothing sends the wrong message to the world's terrorist/idiots. hey, i can spray sarin and no one is going to do anything.

What if you can't stop the chemical weapons without boots on the ground?

Your position is that you don't support boots on the ground.

So you advocate doing nothing, therefore sending the wrong message.

If Chemical Weapons are worth stopping, then they are worth boots on the ground.

You don't get to half-ass these scenarios. You're either in or you're not.

rka:Linux_Yes: if Obama can do surgical strikes with no american boots on the ground, they i support it. if not, then no. but to do nothing sends the wrong message to the world's terrorist/idiots. hey, i can spray sarin and no one is going to do anything.

What if you can't stop the chemical weapons without boots on the ground?

Your position is that you don't support boots on the ground.

So you advocate doing nothing, therefore sending the wrong message.

If Chemical Weapons are worth stopping, then they are worth boots on the ground.

You don't get to half-ass these scenarios. You're either in or you're not.

/I'm not

I believe we are capable of delivering our message without putting a single boot in the ground.

Isitoveryet:rka: Linux_Yes: if Obama can do surgical strikes with no american boots on the ground, they i support it. if not, then no. but to do nothing sends the wrong message to the world's terrorist/idiots. hey, i can spray sarin and no one is going to do anything.

What if you can't stop the chemical weapons without boots on the ground?

Your position is that you don't support boots on the ground.

So you advocate doing nothing, therefore sending the wrong message.

If Chemical Weapons are worth stopping, then they are worth boots on the ground.

You don't get to half-ass these scenarios. You're either in or you're not.

/I'm not

I believe we are capable of delivering our message without putting a single boot in the ground.

I have long advocated the "puppy missile", a tomahawk cruise missile that would safely deliver an adorable basket of puppies to a given location. It would put across the notion that we are wiling to spend a bunch of money and fire missiles, and can hit your front yard. And puppies generally make people happier and less murder-y.

I remember watching Gen Clark talk about a plan to invade all of these problematic nations a few years ago...He perhaps got the order wrong, but I do believe it will probably end with Iran.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yB17j0a-R34I'm guessing WWIII will come along a long time after that region goes through change, and after all of humanity are enslaved while being spoonfed soma. Hopefully, before they introduce solient green as high in fiber,protein, and delicious fat, there will be a WW3 that will look more like a global revolution./sobs.

mizchief:WippitGuud: mizchief: We should have established a policy the we would only trade with democratic nations. That would have solved most of our foreign policy and economic problems.

I don't even want to think about how much trade the US currently does with nondemocratic nations. Hell, stopping trade with just China would cause a lot of economic damage.

yes it's obviously not possible to do a quick 180 now, but after WWII we would have had a good shot at it. Biggest problem would have been the disputes when a country had what we needed but were controlled by dictators. There is no way US labor can compete with communist countries that have no reason to give a shiat about how the workers are treated.

Yeah, leave the entire Korean peninsula at the mercy of the Kims, that would have made our foreign policy problems much easier....

Did you ever wonder why 'a former constitutional professor and former civil rights lawyer' was never a professor of anything or never tried a case as a lawyer? Did you ever wonder why 'a former constitutional professor' ignores congress at will, or somehow didn't know that obamacare was a tax?

Did you ever wonder why 'a former constitutional professor and former civil rights lawyer' has no record of being EITHER ONE, and his entire academic career has been wiped/scraped clean so that no one can see it?

Did you wonder why Princess Moochelle (before she was crowned Queen) got a $300,000 a year no-show job at a Chicago hospital system?

Did you ever wonder... about the world outside of your little bubble?

Don't forget all of those lobsters and caviar and champagne. That's the kind of food rich people eat!

[i80.photobucket.com image 298x486]

I love how there are still people out there who believe that the president or his wife personally sign for room service.

And they don't notice the signature and name are the exact same pixels, just resized

fireclown:I have long advocated the "puppy missile", a tomahawk cruise missile that would safely deliver an adorable basket of puppies to a given location. It would put across the notion that we are wiling to spend a bunch of money and fire missiles, and can hit your front yard. And puppies generally make people happier and less murder-y.

Did you ever wonder why 'a former constitutional professor and former civil rights lawyer' was never a professor of anything or never tried a case as a lawyer? Did you ever wonder why 'a former constitutional professor' ignores congress at will, or somehow didn't know that obamacare was a tax?

Did you ever wonder why 'a former constitutional professor and former civil rights lawyer' has no record of being EITHER ONE, and his entire academic career has been wiped/scraped clean so that no one can see it?

Did you wonder why Princess Moochelle (before she was crowned Queen) got a $300,000 a year no-show job at a Chicago hospital system?

Thrag:BravadoGT: Shostie: Will you f*cking stop it with this WWIII sh*t?

There are a LOT of proxies involved here. If Syria/Hezbollah launch a deadly attack against Israel--what makes you so sure the USA and Russia will stay out of it?

Because it would not even be remotely in Russia's interest to start a war. Their military has been in shambles for decades. Their ability to project power outside their borders is severely limited. Their economy could not sustain a foreign war for very long, especially one with the entirety of NATO. Putin is a kleptocratic thug, but he's not crazy and he's not stupid. He wants power and wealth. Having Russia bombed back into the stone age accomplishes neither of those goals.

What on earth makes you think Russia would go to war with NATO over Syria? That's the question you should be asking yourself. Sure, Russia likes having Syria as someone to sell their weapons to, but Russia isn't exactly doing to spend money and blood to continue to receive a tiny fraction of the amount that a war would cost.

10 years ago, maybe.

Now, not so much. Putin's Russia has power that might even match the Soviet Union. When Putin took office, he wanted to remake Russia to be more like the USSR. Putin's Russia is confident and still very powerful.

hubiestubert:Weaver95: I just can't see any way where bombing Syria works out well for anyone.

Pretty damn much. Rebels, government forces, it's going to be an opening for every stripe of opportunist here and abroad for a feeding frenzy of looting, revenge, and outright raiding of equipment and cash. It's going to stir up a huge amount of chaos, and with only air strikes, it will force folks to do their killing up close and personal, and far from an exchange of power from one government to another. It's just going to make things a lot more personal, ugly, and cement these grudges for another century.

It's called "constructive chaos". Out of the messy fumes, a puppet will magically appear. I'm not pro assad or pro rebels btw, but anyone must admit that this was a long time coming, and the idea that the intervention's sole purpose is to free the hopelesss civilians and punish any use of WMDs (bio or chem) is hard to swallow.

1. The US attacks Syria, takes out as much of their military power as they can, and civilians die.

or

2. The US does nothing, Syria keeps all of its military power, and civilians die.

So... what's option 3?

3. The US does nothing, Israel does something, and America finds itself having to go into a much worse situation that a limited strike could have helped prevent.

4. The US performs strikes. Iran retaliates and hits Israel and the US targets in Syria. Russia gets militarily involved.

/while we're throwing out hypothetical scenarios.

Iran ceases to exist and the remaining rubble of any value is hence forth known as Eastern Arabia. Russia loses +10k troops due their own equipment killing them on day 1 and the conscripts start massive riots rather than die in the leaky death traps.

Linux_Yes:Smeggy Smurf: Weird, democrats screaming for war and republicans screaming for peace.How about instead of killing Syrians we kill politicians instead?

if Mittens Rmoney had won last year, GOP would be screaming for war. the GOP is afraid that Obama might do it right (which he will) and make bushie boy look stupid. AND this would increase Obama's popularity so that HILLARY can ride into the White House on Obama's coattail.

Neighborhood Watch:Did you ever wonder why 'a former constitutional professor and former civil rights lawyer' was never a professor of anything or never tried a case as a lawyer? Did you ever wonder why 'a former constitutional professor' ignores congress at will, or somehow didn't know that obamacare was a tax?Did you ever wonder why 'a former constitutional professor and former civil rights lawyer' has no record of being EITHER ONE, and his entire academic career has been wiped/scraped clean so that no one can see it? Did you wonder why Princess Moochelle (before she was crowned Queen) got a $300,000 a year no-show job at a Chicago hospital system? Did you ever wonder... about the world outside of your little bubble?

Here's your answers. 12 years lecturing but not as an instructor, 5 years as a counsel and not a trial lawyer, his personal preference for privacy of academic record. As for Michelle's job at Chicago Medical Center, you need to check your facts instead of relying on a FWD:FWD:FWD:. I've already asked why on these questions and sought answers, this is what's called living outside of my bubble. Something you should also consider since you are quick to dispense this advice.

I started to suspect that many of those Freepers - creeped into this thread like ants cockroachesuckers to a picnic airport men's room... just to threadshiat with their absurd derp hatrid for brown people everyone else.

TEHRAN (FNA)- The Main Intelligence Directorate, or the GRU in Russian (for Glavnoye Razvedyvatelnoye Upravleniye) reported that President Putin's orders this week to the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation for a "massive military strike" against Saudi Arabia in the event that the West attacks Syria has "stunned" the Saudis forcing them to go on "full war alert"

Now, not so much. Putin's Russia has power that might even match the Soviet Union. When Putin took office, he wanted to remake Russia to be more like the USSR. Putin's Russia is confident and still very powerful.

No. Putin's Russia pretends to be confident and very powerful. They have enjoyed a temporary boom because of their oil and gas resources, but they have entirely squandered those gains mainly on personal corruption. Sure, their situation has improved from completely and utterly farked to just mostly farked. I'll grant that. However there is no possible way they could challenge NATO in conventional conflict.

Russia recently has been trying to modernize their military, but the progress is glacial. They can only spend a tiny fraction of what the US spends, and a pretty large slice of that relative pittance goes directly to corruption.

Here's a simple way to put things in perspective. They have exactly one aircraft carrier in service and zero in reserve. The US has 10 in service and two in reserve. Russia's military is sufficient to beat up on neighboring former soviet states and that's about it.

Isitoveryet:dmaestaz: I guess Obama is going for his second Nobel Peace Prize by bombing the shiat out of another country now...

what was the first country?

You know all this foolishness is very amusing - and Obama is a big boy, and can take can of himself - and if people want to say mean things about him, that's fine with me.But people who are calling this crap "Obama's foreign policy" are either very, very young, or very stupid.I'm 63 years old, and what we are seeing now is basically our foreign policy - the only one we've had as long as I've been alive.Bluster about some shiat going on in some benighted shiathole. When some pretext occurs, bomb and invade said shiathole.Then, keep troops and/or payoff money in place forever to keep perpetual powder keg from blowing. And just keep adding more and more to the list. Started with Truman and Korea, never stopped.Maybe if y'all really, REALLY decide you don't like it, you could stop it - but the deluded self-image we took away from WWII still looms large in a lot of American minds.

jso2897:Isitoveryet: dmaestaz: I guess Obama is going for his second Nobel Peace Prize by bombing the shiat out of another country now...

what was the first country?

You know all this foolishness is very amusing - and Obama is a big boy, and can take can of himself - and if people want to say mean things about him, that's fine with me.But people who are calling this crap "Obama's foreign policy" are either very, very young, or very stupid.I'm 63 years old, and what we are seeing now is basically our foreign policy - the only one we've had as long as I've been alive.Bluster about some shiat going on in some benighted shiathole. When some pretext occurs, bomb and invade said shiathole.Then, keep troops and/or payoff money in place forever to keep perpetual powder keg from blowing. And just keep adding more and more to the list. Started with Truman and Korea, never stopped.Maybe if y'all really, REALLY decide you don't like it, you could stop it - but the deluded self-image we took away from WWII still looms large in a lot of American minds.

Kit Fister:cameroncrazy1984: Kit Fister: cameroncrazy1984: doubled99: Will you f*cking stop it with this WWIII sh*t

Why? getting nervous?

About what? What in history makes you believe that THIS time will be different?

Russia?

Okay, what about Russia? Why didn't WWIII start the last several times we invaded a country that Russia liked?

I'll let you know next time we invade a country where Russia is taking an active interest.

The last time we fought a country with active support from someone was Viet Nam, who was being supported by China, and you recall how that went.

We wouldn't really be going to war with Syria. In the same vein, we were really going to war with Iraq or Vietnam. Instead, we would be going to war IN Syria. The same as going to war IN both Iraq and Vietnam. We absolutely cannot win or achieve victory the same way we could in most of the major wars the way conventional warfare works now. The goal of the Iraq "war" 2 was a war on terrorism. Really? That's like running for office and saying you are going to end world hunger and devising a plan. It isn't possible. In order for us to "win" something, we need to figure out 1) What are we winning exactly and 2) How we achiever that. We need to be realistic in our expectations and completely honest. Can we blow shiat up in Syria and remove Assad + cripple the military? Sure. What does that DO exactly? Are we there to do just that, or are we going to put boots on the ground and dick around in a so-called "rebuilding process" to help ensure some sort of western democracy gets put in place?

cman:jso2897: Isitoveryet: dmaestaz: I guess Obama is going for his second Nobel Peace Prize by bombing the shiat out of another country now...

what was the first country?

You know all this foolishness is very amusing - and Obama is a big boy, and can take can of himself - and if people want to say mean things about him, that's fine with me.But people who are calling this crap "Obama's foreign policy" are either very, very young, or very stupid.I'm 63 years old, and what we are seeing now is basically our foreign policy - the only one we've had as long as I've been alive.Bluster about some shiat going on in some benighted shiathole. When some pretext occurs, bomb and invade said shiathole.Then, keep troops and/or payoff money in place forever to keep perpetual powder keg from blowing. And just keep adding more and more to the list. Started with Truman and Korea, never stopped.Maybe if y'all really, REALLY decide you don't like it, you could stop it - but the deluded self-image we took away from WWII still looms large in a lot of American minds.

jso2897:cman: jso2897: Isitoveryet: dmaestaz: I guess Obama is going for his second Nobel Peace Prize by bombing the shiat out of another country now...

what was the first country?

You know all this foolishness is very amusing - and Obama is a big boy, and can take can of himself - and if people want to say mean things about him, that's fine with me.But people who are calling this crap "Obama's foreign policy" are either very, very young, or very stupid.I'm 63 years old, and what we are seeing now is basically our foreign policy - the only one we've had as long as I've been alive.Bluster about some shiat going on in some benighted shiathole. When some pretext occurs, bomb and invade said shiathole.Then, keep troops and/or payoff money in place forever to keep perpetual powder keg from blowing. And just keep adding more and more to the list. Started with Truman and Korea, never stopped.Maybe if y'all really, REALLY decide you don't like it, you could stop it - but the deluded self-image we took away from WWII still looms large in a lot of American minds.

jso2897:jso2897: cman: jso2897: Isitoveryet: dmaestaz: I guess Obama is going for his second Nobel Peace Prize by bombing the shiat out of another country now...

what was the first country?

You know all this foolishness is very amusing - and Obama is a big boy, and can take can of himself - and if people want to say mean things about him, that's fine with me.But people who are calling this crap "Obama's foreign policy" are either very, very young, or very stupid.I'm 63 years old, and what we are seeing now is basically our foreign policy - the only one we've had as long as I've been alive.Bluster about some shiat going on in some benighted shiathole. When some pretext occurs, bomb and invade said shiathole.Then, keep troops and/or payoff money in place forever to keep perpetual powder keg from blowing. And just keep adding more and more to the list. Started with Truman and Korea, never stopped.Maybe if y'all really, REALLY decide you don't like it, you could stop it - but the deluded self-image we took away from WWII still looms large in a lot of American minds.

This is an awesome post

That's what SHE said.

PS: Thanks, man! :D

I know I have sponsored you before. I don't recall how many times, though...