How does a third party program ( League of Legends) become the same as a basic feature of windows since the start of Windows ?

I wouldn't call it stubborn but more like lack of patience , most people aren't going to keep smashing in keyboard short cuts till something works or buy a app to make windows start ??

Because I use that third party program 10x more than the start button LoL is a core function of my computer more so than the windows start up button.

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Originally Posted by sswilson

Judging by the glut / popularity of start button replacements on the market there must be an awful lot of unimaginative folks out there. That fact alone is all the evidence that M$ should need to know that their vision of a metro enabled desktop is not a hit with a large portion of their customer base.

Sorry, but it should be up to the service provider to react to the wishes of their customer base, not up to the customer base to adjust to the provider's vision.

When home computers came out more people preferred to use type writers to type documents because they didn't understand the computer. Did computer companies start selling type writers?

Look things change sometimes people feel it is for the better (me) sometimes people disagree and feel like it is worse (you). At the end of the day W8 provides a much more streamlined and customizable experience. This is why many people use windows instead of a mac because they have more choices.

Overall beauty is in the eye of the beholder, just because you refuse to look and see it does not mean it isn't there. W8 is faster and more responsive than W7, sure it has some kinks but it is brand new and they will be ironed out. Your start menu is there in a different form, if you like to click the bottom left hand corner of your screen to bring it up you can, if you want to press the windows key to bring it up you can. If you don't want to use it at all you don't have to because there is a third party app for that.

The refusal to use windows 8 until they give you back your classic start menu is kind of silly, they gave you a better start menu and they gave you more options with it. The functionality is there it just looks different.

JJThomp While I understand that loL is a core function to you it never has been part of windows , Microsoft uses the Start menu more in each version of Windows as a way to shield novice users from the complexities of the operating system and giving the user ease of use .

When you start your car you have a routine the manufacture knows this and wants to keep it simple so that you are not distracted and are able to operate your vehicle safely.. well the start button is kinda the same but it keeps you productive..

While I am all for change and innovation you still have to make it usable I have win8 on a laptop and find it frustrating with out a touch screen, maybe with a mouse it would be easier I don't know but trying to smash the corners with the touchpad is a pain and trying to find tabs I left open in a browser gets me so I forgot what I was looking for and for adding a third part program I have to pay for to make things easier for me is just about as silly as purchasing WMP, next thing you know they will be charging for device manager . so you see its not being lazy its about being efficient and not wanting to have to buy each piece of windows.

You mention beauty is in the eye of the beholder this is true and W8 is some ugly as far as the GUI goes the desktop is flat and grey and metro is just blue with squares that would be fine if it was my server but for my laptop I would prefer a little sunshine when I open it

JJThomp While I understand that loL is a core function to you it never has been part of windows , Microsoft uses the Start menu more in each version of Windows as a way to shield novice users from the complexities of the operating system and giving the user ease of use .

When you start your car you have a routine the manufacture knows this and wants to keep it simple so that you are not distracted and are able to operate your vehicle safely.. well the start button is kinda the same but it keeps you productive..

While I am all for change and innovation you still have to make it usable I have win8 on a laptop and find it frustrating with out a touch screen, maybe with a mouse it would be easier I don't know but trying to smash the corners with the touchpad is a pain and trying to find tabs I left open in a browser gets me so I forgot what I was looking for and for adding a third part program I have to pay for to make things easier for me is just about as silly as purchasing WMP, next thing you know they will be charging for device manager . so you see its not being lazy its about being efficient and not wanting to have to buy each piece of windows.

You mention beauty is in the eye of the beholder this is true and W8 is some ugly as far as the GUI goes the desktop is flat and grey and metro is just blue with squares that would be fine if it was my server but for my laptop I would prefer a little sunshine when I open it

... You don't get it. Use the new interface as your start menu it has all the same functions. You are right microsoft uses the start menu more and more every version, in W8 they made the start menu the size of your entire screen and jazzed it up with colours and live tiles. They made it more customizable than they ever have before.

If you want your start menu back there are free ones that you don't have to pay for. Which have been referenced earlier in this thread.

Your start menu still exists, you don't need a third party program. If you want a third party program to have your ugly less interesting and more difficult to use start menu back feel free to do it but why would you expect microsoft to take a step backwards?

Stop thinking of the new UI as just a touch interface, it isn't put anything and everything you could want from your start menu there you can link applications, folders and pretty much everything onto it. You don't even need to use the side swipes.

While I understand the start menu is a core function for you, it is not gone and you don't need a third party program.

I do get it I just can't navigate it as easy as I could before and trying customize it mean I have to learn how to navigate it . my older laptop has winxp and its primary us for it is to monitor my gaming rig I can reach over and hit a button or move the mouse and have it do things because I am a custom to how it works. You have to see me trying to do anything on my win8 laptop its funny as hell . I am constantly dragging tiles around and often things pop up that I am not sure how I got it to do that, like I said it's about habit , I knew how to get things done with out even thinking now I have to work at just finding what I want ,yea after time I will figure it out but right now I don't have to time nor patients.

I don't expect M$ to take a step back rather I expect them not to leap over most of their users in favor of the tablet crowed..

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When home computers came out more people preferred to use type writers to type documents because they didn't understand the computer. Did computer companies start selling type writers?

So again... how exactly do we turn off metro? Sorry, but I'm calling you out on this statement. Just like a previous suggestion by a member to "use the windows button" to get start button fuctionality, I suspect it doesn't do anything at all like what you're suggesting.

Metro isn't a skin, that's the whole point of why we're where we are with opposition to win8.

It's not a skin, it's an overlay, I never said skin. And since you made it very clear you don't install "3rd party software" on your computer, I'd suggest you stick with whatever you have. You are the minesweeper, own it.

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Originally Posted by JJThomp

The windows button opens up "metro" where you can put all your favourite apps right there on the first page just like you do with the start button. This was not a lie nor was it even deceptive your lack of imagination is what is holding you back not the OS.

Pretty much. Something people are not realising is that "metro ui" is just the new start menu. It's the same damn thing, all the same stuff, not hard to navigate.

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Originally Posted by Bloodystumps

How does a third party program ( League of Legends) become the same as a basic feature of windows since the start of Windows ?

Nothing is a basic feature, it's all trial and error that get's implemented over time after enough bitching or praise takes place. Just wait and see where the coin lands and that's how windows will be in the future.

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Originally Posted by sswilson

Sorry, but it should be up to the service provider to react to the wishes of their customer base, not up to the customer base to adjust to the provider's vision.

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. - George Bernard Shaw

I would agree with you tethlah BUT 'we' are paying for the privilege of being treated like 2 years "oh shiny big buttons that take up the full screen...i can just punch the screen!...no need to use the keyboard". MS is forcing this upgrade on people. IF it was an option (FFS give people 'classic' option..not that hard) people would not be "unreasonable'. As it stands I hope Win 8 FAILS and FAILS hard. Then when win 9 comes out it -and MS - will be more 'reasonable' in its demands.

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I would agree with you tethlah BUT 'we' are paying for the privilege of being treated like 2 years "oh shiny big buttons that take up the full screen...i can just punch the screen!...no need to use the keyboard". MS is forcing this upgrade on people. IF it was an option (FFS give people 'classic' option..not that hard) people would not be "unreasonable'. As it stands I hope Win 8 FAILS and FAILS hard. Then when win 9 comes out it -and MS - will be more 'reasonable' in its demands.

That's pretty much how all "new" revisions go though. When we went to every new version of the OS people got uppity. If all else fails, they will do what they did with Vista and kind of ignore it happened and release something nearly identical that will just be better.

In short, Don't expect the modern UI to go away, Windows said we are changing our OS and that's that.

IF you don't like the new model of a car, go with a different car. Great thing about capitalism, you have options. And learning something new or learning how to adapt is never a bad thing. (Praying for a zombie apocalypse to prove my point lol)

The new interface is stupid for one reason. Open a Pdf, image or any other type of file that it uses one of the new interface apps to display and you get stuck in there. You can't alt tab back to the desktop, you have to use your mouse and go to the corner or alt-f4 and click on desktop. Very stupid. I don't mind the interface where it works, but it doesn't work in far more areas than it does. I'd like to burn it. The rest of w8 is fantastic though.

I do get it I just can't navigate it as easy as I could before and trying customize it mean I have to learn how to navigate it . my older laptop has winxp and its primary us for it is to monitor my gaming rig I can reach over and hit a button or move the mouse and have it do things because I am a custom to how it works. You have to see me trying to do anything on my win8 laptop its funny as hell . I am constantly dragging tiles around and often things pop up that I am not sure how I got it to do that, like I said it's about habit , I knew how to get things done with out even thinking now I have to work at just finding what I want ,yea after time I will figure it out but right now I don't have to time nor patients.

Maybe I just don't understand how difficult it is for some people but for me it took me literally 2 minutes to figure out and 5 minutes to set it up exactly the way I wanted it. It functions exactly like the start menu except instead of dragging your icons onto it you just right click on an icons and press pin. Then you just open it and drag it to where you want. I have calculator, CS:GO, Chrome, LoL, Steam, Arkham City, Word, PowerPoint, Excel and a live weather tile all on my first page. Everything I need with room to spare.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloodystumps

I don't expect M$ to take a step back rather I expect them not to leap over most of their users in favor of the tablet crowed..

Like I said once you get used to it, it really isn't about the tablet crowd it is quite convenient.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloodystumps

no they started selling printers

Which essentially is my point they didn't take a step backwards to type writers. Other people invented printers for people who needed to distribute hard copies. For people who need the classic start menu it can be had for free unlike a printer you don't even need to buy it.