To understand why the BDS movement is both laudable and justified in its efforts, one has to look no further than Israel's hideous human rights abuses against the Palestinian people, whose existence it has denied for decades. Public revulsion against Israel's persecution of Palestinians in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, as well as Israel proper is by far the biggest cause for its successes and continuing rise.

Did you have a straight face when you scribbled your words onto the screen?

Public revulsion?

You mean like those we see EVERY NIGHT FOR THE LAST 3 YEARS on those images coming out of … Syria … Egypt … Iraq … Libya … Yemen … Sudan … et al

You wanna talk 'human rights' TAKE CARE OF BUSINESS IN YOUR OWN WORLD FIRST! How dare YOU mention 'human rights' when WE SEE YOU as YOU are nightly on OUR TV screens! Hello?

BDS has failed … its not successful … just like the last plan and the one before that! The only issue is for the Palestinians … what are they going to do? Will they make the necessary COMPROMISES AND CONCESSIONS in order to make a FINAL END OF CONFLICT PEACE AGREEMENT?

BDS is BS! It only wants what it couldn't achieve through 'shooting' wars … the elimination of the Jewish State!

That's not achievable NOW or in the future. You want some advice? Make the deal NOW before it's too late! There will come a time when compromises and concessions from the Israelis will not be so forthcoming …

I know it is tough for all of you BDS fans to change direction. After all, with all the tens of millions in financing, heavily sponsored by the EU governments, your BDS activities became a profession. It is merely a way of making a living. If you stop BDS activity, your many Israeli haters and other 'useful idiots' sponsors might cut off your life-support funding. Then, God forbid, you will need to actually take some real jobs to make a decent living.

I have a suggestion: Why won't you guys take all your money, and work to establish industrial zones in the West Bank, in which Jews and Arabs will co-work and generate value together. Truly, make a real effort for peace. And you'll make a living too, this time by creating value, and not by spreading futile hatred and harm innocent people.

Yesterday, it was announced that 'Viber', an application developed by four Israelis, which services some three hundred million people, was sold to the Japanese giant for about nine hundred million dollars.
.
Today, Google made another acquisition of an Israeli startup SlickLogin, for an undisclosed amount expected to be on a small scale, as this start-up was established merely six months ago, and its products not yet sold in the market place.
.
Apart for the Israeli entrepreneurs who make a lot of money, usually using it to go to their next innovative start-up, Israeli treasury takes its share of all those cases.
.
As a country which its many innovative people are busy creating value, the boycott attempt is futile.

Yes what you say is true. The Palestinians and Muslims in general, just wish Israel would go away. The Israeli position is that as long as the conflict continues they can go on appropriating Palestinian territory on a piecemeal basis. The Israelis clearly believe that the settlements are Israeli territory, because agricultural products grown in the occupied territories are labeled "Product of Israel". Soda Stream also uses the "Made in Israel" label.

The whole reason for the conflict is a clash of religious beliefs which are arbitrary and have no basis in fact. So it is not surprising that the continual use of misinformation is used to perpetuate the situation.

You said: "The whole reason for the conflict is a clash of religious beliefs …"

YOU are the first poster to mention that this is a 'religious conflict' NOT a territorial or a political conflict …

AFTER ALL … if it was territorial or political … it was/could have been solved by PARTITION IN 1947 BEFORE THE NAQBA/WAR OF INDEPENDENCE … the Arabs get their state and the Jews get their state!

BUT … while the Jews accepted PARTITION … the Arab/Muslims REJECTED PARTITION in 1947 … 2000 … 2008 … since they don't want a piece … rather they want the whole 'enchilada'!

SO … we're left with the 'truth' of what your acknowledge … THE MUSLIM WORLD CANNOT ACCEPT THAT JEWS HAVE A RIGHT TO LIVE IN THEIR OWN SOVEREIGN STATE and that Arab/Muslims can live under JEWISH SOVEREIGNTY … and furthermore … that JEWS will have control over the Temple Mount (ALTHOUGH THE JEWISH STATE HAS GIVEN 'RELIGIOUS CONTROL' OVER AL AQSA TO THE MUSLIM WAQF) …

The Arab/Muslims are a primitive people who have not joined the 21st C … of sure they can but on a 'designer suit' but their 'mentality' … their 'worldview' comes directly from the KORAN … which teaches them … JEWS ARE THE DESPISED 'OTHER' WHILE MUSLIMS ARE THE SHINING LIGHT ON PLANET EARTH … despite evidence to the contrary! Hello?

It's tough being an Arab/Muslim … growing up on the BS fed to them by their culture and then wondering why the Arab/Muslims are the 'bottom feeders' on Planet Earth … it's like being at the Olympics and instead of winning GOLD MEDALS … the Arab/Muslims come home EMPTY HANDED! Sheesh … what went wrong?

Seeing this through Islam's eyes; is like going to the Olympics, coming home empty handed and then declaring a great victory for Islam because though they didn't win a medal, still, they made the other guys sweat. In other words, Islam never admits defeat at ANYTHING, no matter what the outcome! They'll just rationalize it away by saying that this is just Allah's way of making them stronger and hungrier for the prize! What a mind job!!!

Initially the Jews were on a winner to nothing. Only the Palestinians were required to give up territory, so why wouldn't the Jews accept the arrangement? The conflict is about territory and always has been. The supposed justification for the genesis of the problem is the nonsensical religious beliefs of the Jews, who claim that the land is theirs by God given right.

You said: "The whole reason for the conflict is a clash of religious beliefs …"

NOW you're saying "the problem is the nonsensical religious beliefs of the Jews" …

So … it's ONLY the Jews at fault!

Let me say … that Zionism is the Nationalist Movement of the Jewish People returning to their historic HOMELAND, the Holy Land … the Jewish State of Israel.

After the Ottoman Empire forfeited their Empire after WWI … the stars aligned for the Jews/Zionists … with Britain gaining the Mandate for Palestine … with the Mission Statement the Creation of a Jewish Homeland in Palestine as acknowledged in the 1920 Treaty of Sèvres … THEREBY CODIFYING it in INTERNATIONAL TREATY/LAW … it was inevitable that the Jewish State would come about! So it wasn't "by God given right" BUT by Internationally recognized LAW … this was verified in November 1947 when the UNITED NATIONS voted to create 2 new states from the Mandated territory - ONE ARAB AND ONE JEWISH STATE.

The conflict came about by the Arab/Muslims not acceding to the will of the INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY the same INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY that they always seek approval from …

PARTITION was what the world agreed to and it has been rejected by the Arab/Muslims to their everlasting detriment!

Partition is all they can expect … that's the deal! Everything else is BS.

That's because Israel's military is in control over MOST of the West Bank and they have excellent surveillance of the population meaning … the Clampdonwn WORKS!!!

BUT … the Israelis CANNOT give up control over the border with Jordan! Israel will need to control those coming in and out UNTIL THEY'RE COMFORTABLE and the Palestinians 'prove' themselves trust worthy! NOT BEFORE. NO NATO or American troops on the border ONLY the IDF!

If there is a new Arab state in the West Bank, then they will be getting much better weapons sooner or later.

The head of the PA is Mahmoud Abbas, he's just about to have his 78th birthday. How long can he stay in charge? And who or what will come after him? Abbas is in the 10th year of a 4-year term and there is no defined succession process. Eventually the Arab radicals will take over and build up their military.

"Israel is not taking land. Everything west of the Jordan River is sovereign Israeli territory as a matter of international treaty and the customary law of nations."

The ruling of the highest court on the planet is publicly available. That ruling is very clear - Israel does not have the faintest right to one square inch of the Occupied Palestinian Territories - it just likes stealing that territory, and up to now has pretty much been able to get away with it.

It's a foolish thing for that participant to claim, of course - you will never find the Israeli government making such a bold claim, for the simple reason that either the Occupied Palestinian Territories are NOT sovereign Israeli territory, or Israel IS operating an apartheid state.

Subject: Settlement in the Administered Territories
At your and Mr Raviv’s request, I am enclosing herewith a copy of my memorandum of 14.9.67 on the above subject, which I submitted to the Minister of
Foreign Affairs. My conclusion is that civilian settlement in the administered territories
contravenes explicit provisions of the Fourth Geneva Convention.
Regards,
[signed]
T. Meron"

Mr Raviv wrote to me to say you had asked for my opinion “on restrictions and dispensations under international law for occupying states where it concerns the cultivation of lands”.
From the point of view of international law, the key provision is the one that appears in the last paragraph of Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention. Israel, of course, is a party to
this Convention. The paragraph stipulates as follows:
“The occupying power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population
into the territory it occupies”.

The Commentary on the Fourth Geneva Convention prepared by the International Committee of the Red Cross in 1958 states:

This clause was adopted after some hesitation, by the XVIIth International Red Cross Conference. It is intended to prevent a practice adopted during the Second World War by certain Powers, which transferred portions of their own population to occupied territory for political and racial reasons or in order, as they claimed, to colonize those territories. Such transfers worsened the economic situation of the native population and endangered their separate existence as a race. The paragraph provides protected persons with a valuable safeguard.

The prohibition therefore is categorical and not conditional upon the motives for the transfer or its objectives. Its purpose is to prevent settlement in occupied territory of citizens of the occupying state. If it is decided to go ahead with Jewish settlement in the administered territories, it seems to me vital, therefore, that settlement is carried out by military and not civilian entities. It is also important, in my view, that such settlement is in the framework of camps and is, on the face of it, of a temporary rather than permanent nature.

Even if we settle an army and not civilians, we must, from the point of view of international law, have regard to the question of ownership of the land that we are settling. Article 46 of the Hague Regulations concerning the Laws and Customs of War on Land (Annexes
to the Hague Convention (IV) of 1907), regulations that are regarded as a true expression of customary international law that is binding on all countries, states in relation to occupied territory that:
“private property ... must be respected. Private property cannot be confiscated”.

We must nevertheless be aware that the international community has not accepted our argument that the [West] Bank is not “normal” occupied territory and that certain countries (such as Britain in its speeches at the UN) have expressly stated that our status in the [West] Bank is that of an occupying state. In truth, even certain actions by Israel are inconsistent with the claim that the [West] Bank is not occupied territory. For example, Proclamation No.3 of the IDF Forces Commander in the West Bank of 7.6.67, which brings into force the order concerning security regulations (in Section 35), states that:

“A military court and the administration of a military court will observe the provisions of the Geneva Convention for the Protection of Civilians in Time of War in everything relating to legal proceedings and where there is conflict between this order and the
aforementioned Convention, the provisions of the Convention will prevail”.

On the possibility of settlement in the Jordan Valley, the legal situation is even more complicated because we cannot claim to be dealing with people returning to their homes and we have to consider that problems of property will arise in the context of the Hague Regulations.
Regards,
[signed]
T. Meron
Copy: Director-General, Mr. Hillel"

There are several more legal opinions in Israel's own government documents - they all express an awareness that any civilian settlements in occupied territories will contravene several provisions of international law, including conventions, laws and treaties to which Israel is a signatory and has accorded recognition.

This undoubtedly refers to the Palestine Mandate, which was instituted by the League of Nations, and has never been repealed. A large chunk of territory, including all the land from the river to the sea, was set aside as a Jewish homeland.

This is the same legal process that established Iraq and Lebanon, among others. If Iraq's borders are legal, then the Mandate must stand, and the land is Israel's.

As an observation, we see International Law protects nobody, and decisions are implemented by armies, not lawyers.

The 4th Geneva Convention referred to might impact the residents of the West Bank Jewish communities, but not Israeli administration of that territory.

The "Highest Court" referred to, simply has no jurisdiction, and is no more legally binding than your opinion or mine.

The
Jewish Nation is proud of our sister Ms. Scarlett Johansson to have stood up against The Leftist-Reform Elite in Los Angeles. The Reform Movement is a passing episode. Their mark on the Jewish History will be soon forgotten

It's very easy: if the territory all belongs to Israel, then (just like black South Africans) all the natives belong to it too.

But only some of those natives are considered ethnically acceptable enough to have a vote. What does that remind me of?

Alternatively, of course, the Occupied Palestinian Territories do not belong to Israel. Of course, if this is the answer (and it is) then the Fourth Geneva Convention applies, and all the settlements are breaches of that Convention.

It is a very simple choice. Be an apartheid state, commit war crimes, or just give back stolen territory and stop stealing any more.

You said: "… only some of those natives … have a vote. What does that remind me of? …"

Egypt? Whilst the Egyptians continued to vote for the Muslim Brothers … the MILITARY thought it best to strip the MB of the presidency and then strip the MB of ability to form a political party!

BUT IT IS NOT "… a very simple choice …"

• SECURITY ARRANGEMENTS HAVE TO BE ADDRESSED …
• Palestinians must be ready to assume responsibility for running a 'state' …
• Palestinians need to run an economy without TOTAL DEPENDENCE on foreign aid assistance
• Obviously many many details need to be worked out including refugees, compensation

BUT … the time is nigh! Let's get together and make a deal … 2 States for 2 Peoples

Let me remind you … when told the Pope thought Stalin should stop repressing Catholics under his yoke, Stalin famously asked, "The Pope? How many divisions has he got?"

The 'provisional' ruling of the court is PROVISIONAL … don't fret the Palestinians will still be under the 'yoke' of the Israelis going forward … they can NEVER be allowed to threaten the Jewish State … so whatever the deal … the Palestinians will have NO OFFENSIVE armed ability … they'll only retain Police powers over their territory … they can't be allowed to control the border with Jordan either … it's THAT SIMPLE! NO Bantustans … just a regular state like Andorra or San Marino et al

The only nervousness is with YOU … because YOUR Cause célèbre is going to be over … LOL

However you'll be able to visit your bros … just bring a Passport if you want to enter Israel and see the Holy City!

I'll be able to enter Jerusalem without going through Israel thanks, as it will be the capital of Palestine. Too bad for you! That's the trade off for the right of return. Netanyahu knows it, Kerry knows it, Obama knows it. And soon - you will too!

Offensive military capabilities are no concern of mine - as long as the Israelis have to give back stolen territory and are prevented from stealing any more, that's good enough for me.

You won't get to the 'Old City' since that'll be part of Israel! BUT … if you like E. Jerusalem so much … you'll miss all the sites of importance to the 3 religions … maybe there'll be no VISA requirement since tourists are a valuable commodity for the Jewish State … I encourage you to visit and have a Falafel!

The Palestinians know something about killing innocent civilians since that's ALL they can do!

You need to remind yourself who you're talking to! MY BS meter is tracking your rants FTIG … you're becoming a little unstable as the process is coming to its conclusion! Take some Valium or an anti-depressant … mix them with alcohol … and see me in the next life! Sucks to be YOU!

Remind yourself it's the PA and Hamas that will not make the compromises & concessions! That's MY TAKE!

As for the Israelis … they've already offered the deal in 2000, 2008 and 2009 … the Pals are still unavailable! Hello?

Whatever the concessions or compromises necessary … the Israelis will make them

EXCEPT … with regard to Security Issues! YOU can take that to the bank! It's about Israel's security issues … if they're not happy with them … NO DEAL. But … Kerry et al know that! Israel needs satisfaction on that issue … it doesn't matter what the Pals think!

I haven't read any of the 400+ comments yet, but I think I'll hold off on my morning shower until I read some.

Israel + The Economist's message board = opinions that make David Icke and Alex Jones seem like a firmly rooted individuals.

I predict plenty of Israeli fans will be telling the Palestinians what's wrong with them, and the pro-Arab camp will be telling the Zionists about their hypocrisy and faults.

Meanwhile, the call from Ghandi to "to be the change you want to see in the world" will quietly whimper in its neglected corner. Ditto with Jesus' sage advice to remove the stick from your own eye first.

And, for Brian's take on all this, this conflict is a classic case of people's beliefs and attachments being more important to uphold than the harmony and growth of the All. As long as people believe without doubt that some manly sky-God promised them, and them alone, this field or that hall thousands of years ago, peace will remain elusive.

And its okay to have religious beliefs. Some beliefs, like the Dali Llama is the reincarnated Buddha, seem to aid in the growth of the individual and humanity. But the beliefs of religion, the opinions of philosophy, the assumptions of science- these are all constructs of the human mind that humans can be quite attached with, to the point of arguing that these mental creations are "real."

Beliefs, opinions, and assumptions are only as real and human beings choose make them. God didn't build the houses of worship all over the world; the belief in God inspired human beings to do so. Reality comes from the knowledge gained from experience, and truth is whatever works.

So believe and do whatever you want, as long as you do no harm. And this includes people slinging accusations at "the other side" on message boards and gatherings everywhere.

Your article is so nice. But, The Dali Llama's of this world were not very effective in convincing the S.S. troops from Pleasure Killing. Nor are the able to convince Hizbollah, or P.L.O soldiers from practicing for the next Genocide.

Tony … did you forget about the thousands of rockets TARGETING ISRAELI CHILDREN IN THEIR SCHOOLS … Israelis in their homes … disrupting their daily lives for years BEFORE Israel was forced to PAY BACK THE SHITHEADS?

Don't throw rockets at Israel and there will be peace! Make an end of conflict settlement with the Israelis and get on with your lives!

BUT … wasn't it Einstein who said the definition of
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Well … What education can the entire Hamas leadership claim?

At least the Israelis get something out of pounding the slugs in Hamastan … they get PEACE AND QUIET for an extended period of time! See 'saichel' works!

I guess it is about time you protest Hamas violation of the Forth Geneva Conversion by conducting its war crimes operations against innocent Israeli civilians from within densely Palestinians populated area.

Hadn't they done so, many lives of Palestinian civilians including children, could have been saved.

But Hamas love it when Palestinian children get killed by Israel. The more the better! - If there were no Palestinian children dead, tonybellchambers and other Israel bashers would have less garbage to throw at Israel's face..

You do not force the zionists to behave the right way by stopping the import of pineapples and grapefruits from Israel.You have to HIT THEM HARD IN THEIR BANKS.I think that Obama gave them an harder blow by raising the basic salary of the workers to 10$ hour,and hitting the zionist stockholders of the companies exploiting them,than by stopping the imports of fruit,if he would do it.As some Nobel winner points out,the western economy has no future without putting a limit to the crimes of the bancogangsters.Useless to attack Israel with homemade rockets:their true enemy,the true danger,for them,is peace and justice,not war that they are ready to fight with state of the art weapons made with stolen (by the Mossad) secrets.Where they show up,exploitment,xenophoby and bad faith follows them,together with the nasty campaign of their "press"to attack those who want to shape up them.Force them out the media,enforce honest laws on economy,and the monster will get killed.

Thank you. Your hatred to the Jews is ABSOLUTELY understandable. This hatred is exactly what unify the Jewish Nation. So, thank you again in our efforts to double and further double our efforts to win.
So, let us see who will win the beauty contest, the likes of you, or the likes of us. We think that we already won.

A. Judaism is a Religion and a very powerful National Identity.
B. It is true that before the Nazi rise to power the Jews were bitterly divided.
C. Jews will never repeat their mistakes of divisions.
D. We can defeat past S.S. troops and future S.S. troops. We need to stay unified.

Well you really have put your finger on something, but unfortunately, you've smudged it. Judaism, being an ism, is the religion of the Jewish people. The Jews, however, and very much to the point, are a people, a term indistinguishable from "nation" when that refers to humans and not their political or geographical character. This is hard for modern Western-educated people to understand and accept because in recent years the political nation-state has become so overwhelmingly dominant a descriptor, while religion and other ethnic characterizations have tended to fade.But try for a moment to drive a wedge between Hinduism and India, Shinto and Japan, Benism and Tibet. Of course, all these places tolerate other belief systems, as does Israel. But there is an organic connection between the physical location, the people and the beliefs. It is the reassembling of that (you'll excuse the borrowed term) "trinity" that constitutes Zionism.
As for your second point, hatred and rejection have pushed the Jews, as other minorities, to live, work and cooperate together more than a fractious, boisterous population might otherwise do.But shared history, language, customs and beliefs (see ism above) also create unity.In any case, any facetious reference (even if indirect) like yours, to mass murder, is generally in poor taste and should be avoided.

I'll tell you this, Luigi. You certainly know how to spoil a good party. Here at the Economist, the restrained, oh so clever leader writers were just gearing up to encourage the BDS movement as the last best hope of pro-Palestine lemmings everywhere, and you come along and tell them it won't work! Beastly! And then you tell them what will--basically smashing the world's entire financial system, although you acknowledge there may be a little turbulence en route because not only do they control the banks (everywhere!), but those pesky Yids also control the world's press and have a whole bunch of stolen secret weapons too.
Back to the drawing board, I guess. The two-thousand search for how to get rid of the Jews while simultaneously ascribing superpowers to them goes on.

Judaism is an ancient and beautiful religion. Zionism is a political movement, just 150 years old, that has dispossessed millions of indigenous people and is, by its continuing illegal settlements, likely to precipitate a new intifada and ultimately a nuclear war in the Middle East.

Zionism is the nationalist movement of the Jewish People … a return to their ancient Homeland, the Holy Land … Israel.
The issue of dispossession is addressed in the book … by Benny Morris … The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, 1947—1949 … the 2nd Edition of which I read. The Arab/Muslims of Mandate Palestine from November 1947 began a Civil War with the Jewish inhabitants that ended in 600K Arab/Muslims leaving what became the Jewish State of Israel. The Arab/Muslims became refugees because:
1. They fled the battle zone … since they were unwilling to remain 'in place' while war raged and food, water, supplies were scare/absent!
2. They didn't want to remain IF Jews were their overlords … that is, if Jews ruled over them!
3. They didn't want to remain for fear of rape and molestation of their women … so they ALL left … men, women and children
4. They feared atrocities by the Jews
5. The Jews needed Arab/Muslims to be 'cleared' from those zones already conquered and didn't want them to return … so they were PUSHED OUT eg. Lydda
6. The Arab/Muslim 'big shots' or notable families left prior to the war by months … leaving LITTLE OR NO LEADERSHIP BEHIND to strengthen the will of the peasants
7. The Arab High Command told the peasants to leave the land for 2 weeks so that the Arab armies could do the job against the Jews
The TRUTH is … once they were out … the Jewish State DID NOT ALLOW THEM TO RETURN TO THEIR FORMER HOMES now inside the Jewish State!

"there is an organic connection between the physical location, the people and the beliefs" - your comment.

Absolutely incorrect - the "location" was forgotten for 20 centuries - hence, there is no "organic connection". The Hindus never left India - even for a single day. Likewise, the Christians of Europe - or the Buddhists of East Asia.

The center of the expression "self-determination", is the word "self".

It means that if the Jews believe and feel they are a people (and they much more to show for that than the 'Palestinian people'), then is for the Jews to make that definition. No approval from anyone else is required. Not even from you, L6..

Denying the Jews a right that EVERYONE else enjoys - the right for self-determination, is discriminatory, and therefore racist.

You say:
'Absolutely incorrect - the "location" was forgotten for 20 centuries - hence, there is no "organic connection".'

The Jewish people NEVER forgot Eretz Israel and Jerusalem. Every year they were praying 'for next year [to be] in Jerusalem'.

Poems they wrote like this one, following the first forced exile by the Babyloneans in the 6th century BC (that's about 1,200 years before even the birth of islam), show the Jews' desire and yearning to get back to Jerusalem:

"By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat and wept; In Babylon's prairies we hanged our violins; Our captors asked us to sing songs of Zion; But how can we possibly sing God's song on foreign soil".

Judah Halevi, a Jewish physician, poet and philosopher who lived in the Spanish exile during the 11th-12th centuries, wrote his famous poem expressing his yearning to Eretz Israel under the title: "My Heart is in the East". In that poem he writes:

"My heart is in the East (Eretz Israel), while I am at the edges of the West (Spain); How can I taste the food I eat and enjoy it;...I would prefer to leave the riches of Spain, just to watch the dust of the fallen Temple"

And he did. At the age of 65, in 1140AD, this Zionist (even though they didn't call it that way then) made his journey to Eretz Israel, where he died.

All that has happened some 800 years before any Arab identified himself as a 'Palestinian'.

You say:
'The Hindus never left India - even for a single day'

That's because no formidable empire drove them away..
But the 'Palestinians' left, mainly because their own leaders instructed them to, and because they feared war and left. No one leaves their home if its really theirs, L6. This tells you a lot on how much those Arabs were real 'natives' of Palestine. Many of them were recent immigrants.

My hatred to the bankers,is understandable.They are destroying my Country,once considered the most beautiful in the world,and our DOLCE VITA.As for the JEWISH NATION,you can do what you want,but behaving honestly.This is something you do not even imagine.This is the point,not"hatred for the jews"and their pineapples

"a right that EVERYONE else enjoys - the right for self-determination, is discriminatory, and therefore racist" - your comment.

The concept of self-determination is based on people living in a certain territory - e.g., the Scots in Scotland, the Irish in Ireland, the Singaporeans in Singapore, the Basque people in northern Spain, etc. This concept cannot be used to transport people 5,000 kilometers from Europe to Asia and still plead self-determination. Look at the precedent that this will create in international law.

Take the West Bank, for example - unlike the Christians, the Muslims have been very kind to the Jews historically. You must be aware that in 20 centuries of "wandering around" the planet, the Jews had several "homelands". In the West Bank, they constituted only 4% of the population, before the advent of political Zionism. The same is true of the rest of Israel , only 8-9 decades ago. This is a documented fact!!!!

You are also aware that that the Jews never considered themselves a nation till the advent of political Zionism. There was hardly anything in common between Polish Jews and Ethiopian Jews - in fact, they were different people, with different food preferences, a different language, etc. As a Jew, you would probably must have noticed that good old aunty Ruth did not produce blond and green-eyed children by keeping her legs tightly crossed!!!!

The issue of a separate state only arose because of a problem of intolerance in Europe. This is old-style colonialist thinking - i.e., the map of the world can be constantly redrawn according to the wishes of the hegemonic power of the day. This thinking leads to precedents that the planet cannot tolerate any more - for example:-

- The Jews are facing problems in Europe, so give them land in Asia;
- The Muslims are facing problems in India, so give them Uzbekistan;
- Catholics are facing problems in Russia, so give them Ireland;
- Buddhists are facing problems in China, so give them Thailand;
- Muslims are facing problems in Burma, so give them Malaysia;
- Chinese are facing problems in Indonesia, so give them Shanghai and the adjoining areas;
- Protestants are having problems in Argentina, so give them London and the surrounding areas.
- Etc., etc.

You must be an old-style colonialist???

The real question, Mr/Ms SF is as follows:-

The Jews have a problem in Europe. Fine. The Jews want to run away from there. Fine. The Jews want some land in Asia. Fine. However, then the Jews should adopt the mentality of a guest, and not the attitude of a colonial power who practices (and imposes) apartheid policies and racist laws. That is not fine, and is totally unacceptable behavior - that in a nutshell is the "Jewish problem"!!!!! Only Jews can sort out this mess that they have created - using holy books to justify grabbing land is breathtaking doublethink!!!!!

God, even Yahweh, is not a cosmic real estate agent who can transfer title deeds of land in the 21st century based on his drunken statements 26 centuries ago!!!! I am assuming that you are not living in 600 BC, and are in touch with world affairs??

You say:
'The concept of self-determination is based on people living in a certain territory'

Incorrect.

The UN Charter, on which all UN member States are signed on, including ALL Muslim states, doesn't make such a definition.

Furthermore, the UN Charter enshrines all previous arrangements agreed upon (Article 80 to the Charter), which includes the league of Nations recognition of the Jewish people's connection to Palestine, and the "reconstituting their national home in that country".

In other words, Jews going back to their country are no colonialist. By subscribing top the UN, all Muslim States accepted that. So back off from this nonsense, will ya?

This is besides the fact that throughout history Jews lived in Palestine, and on their own right have the right for self-determination. Now do not tell me the majority didn't want it. The right for self-determination need no approval of a majority; that's the whole point of the word "self" in the equation.

The Jewish people's connection to Eretz Israel, later named Palestine, is well documented, and their shared culture, language and history in Palestine cannot become void.

Given the fact of the land of Palestine at the start of modern Zionism wasn't even owned by the people who today call themselves 'Palestinians', not to mention the fact that NEVER in history was there a 'Palestinian' country, kingdom, etc., the claim that the entire land belonged to someone else when Jews increase their return to their homeland is baseless.

Just calling themselves 'Palestinians' in the 1960's, doesn't prove any legal ownership of the land called 'Palestine'.

"Absolutely" in a discussion about people usually means the writer is about to make a bad argument. "Location" was quite observably not "forgotten" during the 20 centuries of exile. Aside from the very obvious reminders of foreignness made by their hosts during those centuries, the Jews made a daily ritual of recalling the lost homeland and desire to return to it in their prayers (itself a cultural innovation contributed to the barbarian west to replace animal sacrifices which were the normal means of communing with deities). The Jews didn't 'leave" Israel, they were driven out.
Be careful about arguing might makes right, as you implicitly do.

"Indigenous"? Hardly.Just ask the Arabs themselves and they'll tell you--their families come from Egypt, from Syria, a few from East of the Jordan. A great proportion came in response to the accelerating development created by the returning Jews from the mid-19th century on.
"Illegal". Despite the deafening repetition, no not at all. "inconvenient" might be tolerable. The Geneva Conventions often cited have never been determined to apply; indeed there is no universally accepted means to adjudicate the issue because there is no court for political disputes. As the Australian Prime Minister said recently, "I'd like to see the law that makes the settlements illegal." There is none such.
"Intifada"? Is your Arabic really so good as to allow use in public? Do you really know what the word means? Sure, everybody's doing it--using terms they've been told mean something or other. But if you don't really have a grasp of the language, why not use your own? If you're looking for an "intifada" that might precipitate a nuclear war, why not look to Syria? Iraq? Yemen? Libya? I suggest you worry less; none of these , nor the Israel-Arab dispute, will "precipitate" anything. But it would be refreshing if nations with the means to help took "determined action" to restrain the Arabs from killing each other and getting better at it all the time. Doesn't that seem more urgent than weighing in on the bourgeois claims of Palestinians who already have their very own UN organization and receive "refugee aid" even when living in Palestinian-ruled areas like Gaza or the West Bank?

The above is based on actual "land ownership" papers, not a strange verse in a book by a drunken Yahweh.

Under no principle of international law, can a minority declare self-determination and become a majority. If that were to be the case, the following would happen:-

- The Hispanic population of America/the USA would rebel and declare self-determination, and change the name of the USA to the Spanish Republic of America.
- The Tamil population of India would declare self-determination, and change the name of India to Tamilistan.
- The country of Malta would declare self-determination, and take over all of Italy.
- Singapore would declare self-determination, and take over all of Indonesia and Malaysia.
- Etc., etc.

That is the absurd reality of your statements.

The reality is that the Jewish link with Palestine is invented - all ancient cultures on the planet (Egyptian, Persian, Celtic, Hittite, Chinese, Indian, etc.) have left archeological footprints - there are hundreds of museums full of them. There is no trace of the Jews in Palestine - it is fiction. Even your holy books and their stories are fiction - read the latest academic revelations about Abraham- here is a link:

I thank you, L6, for bringing forward the land ownership issue for discussion, as this is precisely what refutes your claim that the entire area referred to as ‘Palestine’ belongs 100% to the people calling themselves today ‘Palestinians’.

It proves my claim that merely by some Arabs calling themselves ‘Palestinians’ in the second half of the 20th century, has no bearing on land ownership in the land known as ‘Palestine’, thus provides no automatic national rights to the people calling themselves ‘Palestinians’ over the entirety of the land known as ‘Palestine’.

Discussing the land ownership issue PROVES that claims of Israel being land thieves, only because they have a state of their own on part of the land is a deceitful claim, libelous charge, made by people who demand to themselves land they do not own.

Surfacing the land ownership point PROVES that denying the right of the Jews their right for a state of their own at least in part of ‘Palestine’ is unjust.

The details you provide are a package of mixed up numbers making it very hard to understand. Maybe that’s the whole purpose, I do not know.

Here is a readable map of land ownership from 1945, which enables a quick review and understanding of the land division between Arab, Jews, and public land owned by neither:

Look at the Beershva district for example, which includes the entire Negev desert. This district’s land is 85% public. This area covers a major part of the entire area known as ‘Palestine’, area one can’t do much with it. It’s a desert.

While this area was almost totally public, with almost NO Palestinian ownership, and since no much could be done with it, this was allocated to the Jewish state. The Palestinian claims that the ‘own’ 10o0% of Palestine’s land IS A LIE! – It WASN’T THEIRS TO LOSE!!

Take a look at the Jaffa district, where land ownership was split about evenly between the Arabs and the Jews. Since it so happens that most Arabs lived in Jaffa, while most Jews lived in Tel-Aviv, part of the same district, so Jaffa was planned to be part of the Arab State, While Tel Aviv being part of the Jewish State.

Look at the Tul Karem district, which has a large Arab majority of land ownership. This district also includes the Jewish town of Netanya. So the partition planners assigned the Netanya area to the Jewish state, while leaving Tul Karem to the Arab one.

That was the logic.

Now to mother points you mention:

You say:
'Indeed, there have been Jews in Palestine as a small minority - roughly the same percentage as Muslims in China'.

Just in case you are unaware, the Muslims in the province of Xinjiang demand independence. They call it East Turkmenistan, or Uyghurstan. As you see, size has no impact on desire or demand for independence!

You say:
‘Under no principle of international law, can a minority declare self-determination and become a majority.’

A minority can declare self-determination and become a majority of the country they exercise their right for self-determination. You give the Singapore example, in which Singaporeans are a majority in Singapore of course, NOIT Malaysia which they parted, and didn’t want to be part of anymore.

The Hispanic can try to part the US. I think that wanting to become part of the US is precisely the reason Hispanics want to immigrate into the US. Not everyone is like Islamists, L6, who want to take over the host countries that open their doors and hearts towards them. Immigrant Hispanics WANT to adopt the US way of life.

Etc..

You lie (again) when you say:
‘The reality is that the Jewish link with Palestine is invented…There is no trace of the Jews in Palestine - it is fiction.’

What’s fiction is the existence of an old ‘Palestinian people’. Name me one ‘Palestinian’ leader before Yasser Arafat; name me one ‘Palestinian’ currency that was ever in use. Name me the first ‘Palestinian’ poet or writer, who identified himself as such before the 20th century. That’s what fictitious.

About the Jewish people’s ancient historical evidence, here are couple of such examples out of Zillions, L6. First are the Dead Sea scrolls:

Oh, and by the way, building your case on some camel bones is really entertaining, L6. You should read the details of what agenda-driver reported present you with, because even that research talks about bones of camels dating back to about 9,000BC(!), even though not domesticated. The fact that till now no domesticated camels remains preceding the time of King Solomon’s copper mines, doesn’t mean such evidence won’t be found.

And anyway, Zionism didn’t build its case on Godly promise, but rather proved national connection between the Jewish people to Eretz Israel, where they belong.

Judaism is the religion of the Jewish nation whose true name was and is Israel. Since our founding, millennia ago, the world has tried to tell us we can't be a nation because we are a religion or we can't have a religion because we are a nation. No one tells the Irish they can't be a real nation because of their stated "special relationship" with the Catholic church. Nor does anyone complain about the several Islamic states. Anyone care to tell the Japanese they are not a people because of their national religion, Shintoism? Arigato!

Huh? It's natural … like bees to honey … Jews to the HOLY LAND … THE LAND OF ISRAEL … the JEWISH STATE …

Singapore to Singaporeans? LOL

How long has there been a Singapore? Let me know … LOL

You said: "… the Jews should adopt the mentality of a guest …"

You mean … be more like the 'neighbourhood' … be more like the 'Arab/Muslims'? You think that's wise? LOL

After all … the world DOESN'T need ANOTHER basket case of a state … the Arab/Muslim states seem like they're falling like DOMINO'S …

No Israel should remain steadfast … be the OECD liberal democratic state of the Jewish People … the dominant military power in the Arab/Muslim ME … 6 million Jews/Zionists/Israelis 'PUNCHING WAY ABOVE THEIR WEIGHT' … Can't see how that's gonna change?

You said: "Yahweh …"

Yahweh is one name for God … but he's got plenty of names he's known by … unlike you … Shithead!

+So many readers seem enthusiastic about the prospect of delivering that long awaited knock-out punch to the uppity Jews who thought they could just stroll in from Syria, Yemen, Iraq, Lebanon, Egypt, Algeria, Morocco, Libya, Tunisia--well not stroll, more like flee, really, just ahead of baying mobs , and set up a country in territory with funny names like "Judea", "Kasr- al-Yahud", Yahudiya! (Somehow the Arabs who moved in and settled on the ruins of other people's property never learned to obscure their squatting by distorting the names of the previous owners.)
And those other Jews, the lucky ones who were able to arrive by boat after 1945--straight from the safety of their posh European homes in Germany, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, and then build a multi-billion dollar economy where, as every right-thinking reader of T.E. Lawrence will tell you, banditry and goat herding are really the only proper vocations!
For people so exercised about Jews (once again) doing well, the only solution may very well be to boycott the products produced "over there." Go ahead, give up your Pampers (English people aren't keen on babies anyway, right?), your fizzy drinks (take your Scotch neat after the devolution), your computers, your cell phones. Oh, and your Bible--another one of those Jewish products you clearly have no need for anymore.
But you BDS folks knew that already, didn't you?

Indeed - all of us could do without the OT - the most violent, sadistic and pornographic religious book on the plant - for example:

"When Jephthah returned home after slaughtering the Ammonites, his daughter came out to meet him.

Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances. Judges 11.34

When Jephthah saw his daughter, he tore his clothes and told her that he had opened his mouth to God.

When he saw her, that he rent his clothes, and said, Alas, my daughter … for I have opened my mouth unto the LORD, and I cannot go back. 11.35

His daughter (who is unnamed in the Bible) said,

My father, if thou hast opened thy mouth unto the LORD, do to me according to that which hath proceeded out of thy mouth. 11.36

What had proceeded out of Jephthah’s mouth was, of course, a God-inspired promise to God to kill whatever greeted him. And so by God, that's what he did. A man's got to do what a man's got to do.

And ... her father ... did with her according to his vow which he had vowed. 11.39

God inspired Jephthah to make the vow, so he expected him to abide by it. And God was so pleased when Jephthah killed his daughter for him".

NOTE: Yahweh enjoys people killing their own children!!!!! Like Abraham's love child with his own chamber-maid!!!!!

OR

"God got involved in killing the Ethiopians because he liked Asa, the king of Juda, so much. Asa did what was good and right in the eyes of the Lord by destroying the temples of other gods and forbidding their worship.

Asa did that which was good and right in the eyes of the LORD his God: For he took away the altars of the strange gods, and the high places, and brake down the images, and cut down the groves. 2 Chronicles 14.2-3

And he drove homosexuals out of the land.

And he took away the sodomites out of the land. 1 Kings 15.12

So when the Ethiopians attacked Judah while Asa was king, you know which side God was on.

There came out against them Zerah the Ethiopian with an host of a thousand thousand. 2 Chronicles 14.9

All Asa had to do was ask.

Asa cried unto the LORD his God, and said, LORD, it is nothing with thee to help, whether with many, or with them that have no power: help us, O LORD our God; for we rest on thee, and in thy name we go against this multitude. 2 Chronicles 14.11

And God killed all 1,000,000 Ethiopians, apparently all at once, in a single day."

NOTE: The whole population of Ethiopia was around 1 million according to historians - therefore, according to the OT, all of them were killed. Why?? No reason to kill them has been stated.

OR

"It begins with God telling Moses to take vengeance on the Midianites. (He doesn't say for what, but I guess it was for the sex)

So Moses does what he's told and sends off 12,000 men led by Phinehas (the guy who stopped God from killing everyone by impaling the couple who were having sex).

First they killed every male "as the LORD commanded Moses."

And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males. Numbers 31:7

Next they killed five kings,

And they slew the kings of Midian ... namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian. Numbers 31:8a

along with Balaam (the nice guy with the talking ass).

Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword. Numbers 31:8b

Then they took the women and children captive, collected their animals and valuables, burned the cities, and returned to Moses.

And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods. Numbers 31:9

But Moses wasn't pleased. Here's what he said:

And Moses was wroth with the officers ... Have ye saved all the women alive? Behold, these caused the children of Israel ... to commit trespass against the LORD ... and there was a plague. Numbers 31:14-16

And Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. Numbers 31:17-18

(You see, it was the Midianite women who had sex and a dinner with the Israelites. And that's what pissed God off so much. So all the non-virgin women had to be killed.)

So that's what they did. They went back and killed all the non-virgin women, keeping the 32,000 virgins alive for themselves."

NOTE: Since the number of virgins is statistically around 5% of the total population at any given time, that means that 640,000 people were brutally killed because Moses and his friends wanted to have sex with 32,000 virgins!!!!!

You certainly do flail away at something you claim is no longer needed, and you really are focused on the juicy bits. Don't get out much, I'm guessing? But before you toss the Bible out with the bath water, you might linger a moment at that point where Western civilization has to come up with an alternative foundation work for its culture and moral structure--not that the West has done so well with the Judeo-Christian one it has relied on for so long. Surely you aren't going to suggest that famously derivative mash-up, the Koran? So what then? Kama Sutra?, Book of the Dead?, Apple OS.1? It's true the Judeo-Christian worldview operates on a hefty dose of guilt. But consider, my Bible-thumbing friend, if things are bad now (they are!), how much worse off will we all be when those itching-to- be-pagan Europeans revert to their pre-Christian ways and start killing each other unhindered by a sense of guilt?

If only you would be concerned of nowadays mass murders, mass rapes, and virgin women's sale that occur daily due to the 'Arab Spring', at a level being one tenth of your concern about Biblical stories of 3500 years ago, this could have been a little contribution to advancing humanity today..

Don't forget you enjoy today things that Judaism and the Bible introduced to the world and are followed by large segment of humanity, from a weekly day of rest, through incest prohibition, animal's rights (the day of rest is also for animals), the need for witnesses and proof before convicting a suspect, etc.

"Surely you aren't going to suggest that famously derivative mash-up, the Koran? So what then? Kama Sutra?, Book of the Dead?, Apple OS.1" - your comment.

Out of all the books mentioned by you (above), I think the Kama Sutra is the most plausible - at least you can do the stuff that is written in it - the Bible is pure fiction:-

- Plants are made on the third day before there was a sun to drive their photosynthetic processes: Genesis (1:14-19). 1:11.

- Abraham was 99 years old when he circumcised himself, along with his 13 year old son, Ishmael, and his 318 slaves -- all in one very busy (and painful) day. Genesis 17:23-27.

- Sarah, who is about 90 years old and has gone through menopause, laughs at God when he tells her that she will have a son. She asks God if she will "have pleasure" with her "Lord" [Abraham], when both are so very old. God assures her that he will return and impregnate her at the appointed time. Genesis 18:11-14.

- Abraham needed God's help to father Isaac when he was 100 years old (Genesis 21:1-2, Romans 4:19, Hebrews 11:12). But here, when he is even older, he manages to have six more children without any help from God. Genesis 25:2.

- Jacob wrestles with god and wins. God changes Jacob's name to Israel to signify that he wrestled with God and "prevailed." Genesis 32:24-30.

- The Israelite population went from 70 (or 75) to several million in a few hundred years. Exodus 1:5,7, 12:37, 38:26.

- God sends quails to feed his people until they were "two cubits [about a meter] high upon the face of the earth." Taking the "face of the earth" to be a circle with a radius of say 30 kilometers (an approximate day's journey), this would amount to 3 trillion (3x1012) liters of quails. At 2 quails per liter, this would provide a couple million quails for each of several million people. Numbers. 11:31.

- Here is some good advice from God: "Circumcise the foreskin of your heart." Deuteronomy 10:16.

- In a divine type of daylight savings time, God makes the sun stand still so that Joshua can get all his killing done before dark. Joshua 10:12-13.

- "They (the Midianites) came as grasshoppers for multitude; for both they and their camels were without number." Every male Midianite was killed during the time of Moses (Numbers 31:7), and yet 200 years later they flourish like grasshoppers "without number." Judges 6:6.

- "The angel of God came again unto the woman as she sat in the field: but Manoah her husband was not with her." Husbands are never around when angels come unto women and make them pregnant. Judges 13:9.

- According to this verse David's army had 1,100,000 men from Israel and 470,000 men from Judah, Of course, these numbers is ridiculously high for a battle between two tribal armies in 1000 BCE. (The United States had about 1.37 million active duty soldiers in 2001 - even today, the Chinese army is smaller than David's). Chronicles 21:5.

- David provides Solomon with a fantastically large amount of gold and silver with which to build the temple: 100,000 talents of gold and 1,000,000 talents of silver. Since a talent was about 60 pounds, this would be about 3,000 tons of gold and 30,000 tons of silver. Chronicles 22:14.

- After Solomon died, his son Rehoboam became king, and everyone in Israel came to talk to him, begging him to not be the jerk his father was. Rehoboam said that he'd be even nastier. His dad laid heavy burdens upon them and tortured them with whips; he would torture them with scorpions. If Solomon had a big dick, Rehoboam has an even bigger one. "My little finger shall be thicker than my father's loins." Chronicles 10:3-11.

- God will turn the earth upside down, knock it off of its foundations, and then shake and bake it until it "reels to and fro like a drunkard." Isaiah 24:1, 18-20.

- God tells Ezekiel to eat barley cakes that are made with "the dung that cometh out of man." (Yum!) Ezekiel 4:12.

- The Israelites clothing didn't wear out while wandering around in the desert for 40 years. (God made the children's' shoes grow with their feet so they wouldn't need new ones!) Nehemiah 9:21.

- King David collects ten thousand drams (or darics) for the construction of the temple in Jerusalem. This is especially interesting since darics were coins named after King Darius I who lived some five hundred years after David. Chronicles 29:7.

- Hezekiah, the son of Ahaz, began to reign when he was 25 years old. His father was 36 years old when Hezekiah took over (16:2). So Ahaz was only eleven years old when he fathered Hezekiah! Kings 18:1-2.

- "Then David arose, and cut off the skirt of Saul's robe privily." David snuck in and cut off a piece of Saul's skirt while he was relieving himself. Saul was so busy with his business that he didn't even see David or notice that his skirt was being cut. Samuel 24:4.

You mention that the Bible introduced the weekly holiday - it was introduced in China, 8 centuries before the Bible. However, I do admit it has good comedy features and the concept of concubines - that is a real contribution:

- Ask God to smite your enemies with hemorrhoids in their secret parts.

"The hand of the LORD was against the city with a very great destruction: and he smote the men of the city, both small and great, and they had emerods in their secret parts." 1 Samuel 5:9.

- Have public sex with your father's concubines.

"Go in unto thy father's concubines, which he hath left to keep the house ... So they spread Absalom a tent upon the top of the house; and Absalom went in unto his father's concubines in the sight of all Israel." 2 Samuel 16:21-22.

- Make your bowels sound like a harp.

"My bowels shall sound like an harp." Isaiah 16:11.

- Get drunk and uncover your foreskin.

"Drink thou also and let thy foreskin be uncovered." Habakkuk 2:16.

- Lie on your left side for 390 days and then on your right for 40 days.

"Lie thou also upon thy left side ... for ... three hundred and ninety days ... And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side ... forty days." Ezekiel 4:4-6.

- See God's loins (the glory of the Lord) and fall on your face.

"And I saw ... the appearance of his loins.... This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face." Ezekiel 1:27-28.

- Ask God to make someone's bowels fall out.

"The LORD smote him in his bowels with an incurable disease. And ... after the end of two years, his bowels fell." 2 Chronicles 21:18-19.

- Curse any little children that make fun of you for whatever reason. (God will send bears to rip them to pieces.)

"As he [Elisha] was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them." 2 Kings 2:23-24.

- Find a hot young virgin to get you some heat.

"Now king David was old and stricken in years; and they covered him with clothes, but he gat no heat. Wherefore his servants said unto him, Let there be sought for my lord the king a young virgin: and let her stand before the king, and let her cherish him, and let her lie in thy bosom, that my lord the king may get heat. So they sought for a fair damsel throughout all the coasts of Israel, and found Abishag a Shunammite, and brought her to the king. And the damsel was very fair, and cherished the king, and ministered to him." 1 Kings 1:1-4.

- Burn to death any whore-like daughters of priests.

"And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire." Leviticus 21:9.

- Offer your virgin daughters to a sex-crazed mob of angel rapers.

"I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes." Genesis 19:8.

- Buy sex with mandrakes.

"And Rachel said, Therefore he shall lie with thee to night for thy son's mandrakes. And Jacob came out of the field in the evening, and Leah went out to meet him, and said, Thou must come in unto me; for surely I have hired thee with my son's mandrakes. And he lay with her that night." Genesis 30:15-16.

- Have a conversation with your donkey.

"And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times? And Balaam said unto the ass..." Numbers 22:28-30.

- Get 300 foxes, tie their tails together, and light them on fire.

"Samson went and caught three hundred foxes, and took firebrands, and turned tail to tail, and put a firebrand in the midst between two tails. And when he had set the brands on fire, he let them go." Judges 15:4-8.

- Buy a wife with 200 foreskins.

"And Saul said, Thus shall ye say to David, The king desireth not any dowry, but an hundred foreskins of the Philistines ... And when his servants told David these words, it pleased David well ... Wherefore David arose and went, he and his men, and slew of the Philistines two hundred men; and David brought their foreskins, and they gave them in full tale to the king, that he might be the king's son in law. And Saul gave him Michal his daughter to wife." 1 Samuel 18:25-27.

- Cut off anyone that pisses against a wall.

"Behold, I will ... cut off ... him that pisseth against the wall." 1 Kings 14:10.

- Fill your bowels with a roll.

"And he said unto me, Son of man, cause thy belly to eat, and fill thy bowels with this roll that I give thee. Then did I eat it; and it was in my mouth as honey for sweetness." Ezekiel 3.3.

Since my father refuses to share his concubines, I have to cut off a few foreskins and find myself a virgin for the night!!!!

Looking through the vitriolic responses from our Zionista friends I am seeing a common response. It appears that Israel is so strong and wealthy that it doesn’t need the multiple billions of dollars that the US gives it every year. Well I am thinking that we should take them up on that. Just think of what we could do with that money. Not to mention being able to tell the terrorists de jour that we no longer sponsor Israel so back off on the shenanigans against innocent Americans whose political process has been highjacked. So please contact your congressman and AIPAC rep to say; “hey it’s cool to back off on the pressure and let the US political process run itself”. Granted a general boycott by American citzens would help but let’s start with baby steps. Let our friends in Europe take some of the initiative. I mean really they are a good part of the cause of all this. Yes UK, we all recall the Balfour proclamation.

You say:
'Not to mention being able to tell the terrorists de jour that we no longer sponsor Israel so back off on the shenanigans against innocent Americans whose political process has been highjacked.'

Do you really think that Islamists terrorism goes after America because of what Israel does or doesn't do?!

If we wake tomorrow and find out that miraculusly we live in a world where there is no Israe, and even no jews at all, do you really tyhink al Qaeda, Jamah Islamiya, Islamic Jihad, Jabhat al Nusra, Hamas, Hizbullah, Islamic State of Iraq and a-Sham (ISIS)... [apoogies to all other Juhadists I didn't mention their names..], will lay down their arms, stop demanding the Islamization of the entire world??

You say:
'Let our friends in Europe take some of the initiative. I mean really they are a good part of the cause of all this. Yes UK, we all recall the Balfour proclamation.'

If you want to know what your frinds in Europe are now concerned about, is European-born Islamists, 2nd or 3rd generation Muslims living in Eurpe, who now get tyheir Jihad education and training in Syria, poised to go back 'home', exporting Jihad to Europe. Watch this British Jihadist stating - "Britain, you're next!":

The one thing that I don't understand is why Israel is constantly singled out when it comes to BDS and general global finger-pointing. I don't hear any voices calling for BDS of Saudi Arabia or Bahrain for their treatment of Shia's, who are constantly referred to as second-class citizens. Nor for their treatment of women, who are essentially property of men and can't even drive. Nobody calls for sanctions against Pakistan for its treatment of religious minorities and its blasphemy laws. Same goes for numerous countries across the middle east, africa, asia, the americas etc... There are probably hundreds of countries who treat ethnic/religious minorities (or majorities in the case of Bahrain and probably others) in the same manner if not worse.
While that doesn't excuse Israel for the actions that many find objectionable, it does seem that people seem much less concerned with the victims of oppression (despite their numerous pleas for the dignity of the palestinians) than they are with the perpetrators of this oppression.
I would be interested to hear from those calling for BDS of Israel why they don't call for BDS with the same rigor for all other countries engaged in similar behavior.

Obviously many in Israel as well as Stephen Harper would point to this double-standard as signs of anti-semitism, although I am dubious.
Is it because the rest of Israel is a generally well-developed democracy/economy, and therefore more is expected of them?
It obviously strikes people as a greater 'crime' when one side has F-16's and the other side has suicide bombers and homemade missiles than when one has AK-47's and the other side has less AK-47's, but in a moral sense that shouldn't really make a difference should it?
I would be interested to hear why others think Israel is the only country (besides Iran of course) that ever seems to come before the UN/general public on the issue of sanctions

Well, Israel makes itself a target, fist through the Zionist movement that established Israel through the newly created United Nations. And I hear the critics on this seeming pro-Zionist bias- the American Indians received a far worse genocide, but where is their U.N.-mandated state?

And Israel made a name for itself through the ADL and other organized political groups which have brilliantly and effectively advanced the Zionist cause in the U.S. and elsewhere. Indeed, the ADL has become feared for its labeling of someone as anti-Semitic, even though a far more accurate term is anti-Zionist.

And, Jewish people have long been characterized as bloody-thirty, inhuman people with no loyalty to any land or country, just a commitment to make money fleecing from the backs of country-loving people who work hard for their families and community.

The concept of the world being run by Satan-worshiping Jewish reptilians was popular long before David Icke arrived on the scene. Jews have been dealing with Jew-haters for centuries, especially in a Europe held under the anti-Jewish dogmatism of the Catholic Church.

So, when the Jewish people and others give them a high profile, don't be surprised when the perch of being a Jewish state attracts more attention than, say Cambodia or Canada.

Ask anyone famous: being known has its risks and costs.

But, for your point, I wholly agree about the U.N. reserving sanctions for only certain members.

As a citizen of the United States, I often wonder why other countries don't attempt to sanction us for our foreign policy.

The United States frequently violates and excludes itself from international law- the invasion of Iraq, the planting of poppy fields in Afghanistan by our CIA, and the dragnet snooping of seemingly everyone, everywhere.

Oh, but I forgot: the U.S. holds the world's reserve currency and most powerful military, so its best to not anger the U.S. by bringing up its failings. No one enjoys having their faults pointed out by others, including nation-states.

And the double-standards go beyond targeting only select countries for U.N. sanctions. Right now the media, because their owners have wisely decided Putin must be replaced by an economic and political modernizer/reformer, is biased against Putin and therefore scornfully reports on Russia's anti-gay propaganda law, which is enforced by some jail time.

Yet, because the Saudis are on "our" side in Syria and elsewhere, the mainstream media stays silent as gay people actually get killed or have body parts chopped off for making their affections known.

As a gay man, I'm far more troubled about the situation in Saudi Arabia than Russia, but then I'm using my own illumination instead of blindly trusting outside and unknown authorities with various agendas to impress upon humanity.

My opinion is that the anti-racist Europeans are heavily influenced by the large number of Muslim "Guest workers" and by Arab/Iranian oil power.

Muslim law insists that the Jews be treated as inferior to Muslims, and this is the undergirding of Iranian and Arab antisemitism.

Many feel that the Muslim states feel for the Palestinians. But all the Muslim states, with the possible exception of Jordan, discriminate by law against the Palestinians in education, housing, and employment. So that ain't it.

and I quote ... "Muslim law insists that the Jews be treated as inferior to Muslims".

Torah clearly states that goys are beasts, and inferior to jews....

"Every Jew, who spills the blood of the godless
(non-Jews), is doing the same as making a
sacrifice to God."
Talmud: Bammidber raba c 21 & Jalkut 772
"OUR RACE IS THE MASTER RACE. WE ARE DIVINE GODS
ON THIS PLANET. WE ARE AS DIFFERENT FROM THE
INFERIOR RACES AS THEY ARE FROM INSECTS. IN
FACT, COMPARED TO OUR RACE, OTHER RACES ARE
BEASTS AND ANIMALS, CATTLE AT BEST. OTHER RACES
ARE CONSIDERED AS HUMAN EXCREMENT. OUR
DESTINY IS TO RULE OVER THE INFERIOR RACES. OUR
EARTHLY KINGDOM WILL BE RULED BY OUR LEADER
WITH A ROD OF IRON. THE MASSES WILL LICK OUR
FEET, AND SERVE US AS OUR SLAVES." --Menachem Begin
(Israeli Prime Minister, 1977-1983)

this kind of foam-flecked psychosis is the underlying creed for Zionism.

It's slugs like YOURSELF that have an animus to Jews that lurk in the muck waiting to pounce on their prey! Sucks to be YOU. Perhaps your momma didn't give you enough love? Poor grades makes you a perpetual LOSER? Always looking out of basement apartment windows at the snow? Feel like you're permanently cast as a 'low life' in True Detective? OK … I get it … Shithead!

If I were an Israeli I would be very concerned about the effects of a boycott. How effective a boycott is depends on how easy it is to find alternative sources for the products which the boycotted country produces for export. There are few if any products for which Israel is a sole source world supplier of any significance.

Additionally Israel is more dependent on European trade, particularly for the sale of agricultural products, than say South Africa was. A European boycott would damage Israel's economy. But in the end action by the United States would be the deciding factor.

Israel is unique in its high technology products. The Israeli Agriculture is of course the top of the line but it is insignificant and totally unimportant. The Leftists' efforts ( Sweden, Norway, Ireland, etc,.. ) to boycott Israel is a joke. Don't even try, you will lose. The second genocide will not be happen. Not in the next thousand years.

Hey, what is the name of that giant Israeli consumer electronics company everyone buys from; oh, wait; that's right it does not exist! Save the propaganda for the idiotic American evangelicals. Israel has no foreign reserves, a trade deficit, no natural resources, and even Belgium produces more high tech patents (granted, not filled) than Israel. Israel is a consumption based war economy and client state of the US. When America goes; Israel goes. You should pray that America keeps writing those checks and the evangelical never turn on you.

CNN, November 22, 2013: “Technology companies are on a shopping spree in Israel, spending billions on ever larger deals and fueling the country's startup success story. Greater Tel Aviv is a home to a vibrant tech start-up scene, second only to Silicon Valley. Microsoft, Google and Cisco have large R&D offices in the area. Google, Apple, Intel, IBM and Cisco have been involved in a spate of high-profile acquisitions over the past two years, scouring the country for the next big thing…. Since 1998, Cisco has made 11 acquisitions and invested in 22 start-ups in Israel….

Again, hype. Israel does not even rate when it comes to patents granted, actual high tech exports, or even citation of academic papers. I suppose Israel is good at scamming; the come up with a mediocre product, i.e. Soda Stream, hype it up and then get some chump to over pay for the company.

"Israel has more companies listed on the NASDAQ stock exchange than any country outside the US. “How is it that Israel has, per person, attracted over twice as much venture capital investment as the US and thirty times more than Europe?” …

According to research firm IVC, in the decade between 2003 and 2012, 772 Israeli startups (some already public companies) were acquired for $41.6 billion. In the third quarter of 2013, 162 companies raised $660 million from local and foreign investors, the highest quarterly amount since 2000."

The Bangalore experiment is 'wishing and hoping' to be the 'new' Israel … time will tell …

In their book … Start Up Nation … the authors suggest it is Israel's IDF experience that 'bonds' those destined to excel in Hi-Tech … but you can still come in 2nd! LOL

Wrong. By August 2013 Israel's reserves stood at $78.4 Billion, ranked 27th in the world while being ranked 96th in population size. That's higher than Canada, Iran, Sweden, Norway, Australia, the Netherlands, etc.

True. keep in mind, though, that in couple of years revenues from natural gas sales will start to kick in, which ism likely to change that.

You say:
'Israel has no natural resources'.

Wrong. See above gas revenues.

Israel's external debt is ranked 43rd in the world, having almost all western and European nations having more debt than Israel (except for the Baltic states, Slovenia, Croatia, and the Czech Republic.... and Malta).

Israel's current interest rate is 1%, when Turkey and Argentina's interest rates go through the roof, and their local currencies plummet. In the case of Israel, in order to stop the value increase of the Israeli Shekel, Bank of Israel keeps buying US$!

Israel exports to the US amount to ~18% of Israel's export, which by the way reached a record high of ~$90B in 2013, up from ~$60B in 2010.

As BDS started its campaign in 2005, it seems it has very little success to show for, isn't it?

One more thing. The BDS capping is designated to force The Jewish Nation to integrate in the Middle East. This WILL NEVER HAPPEN. Israel will never be a part of the Middle East. What a joke ! We have no budget for nonsense poetry. The State of Israel will not "Convert Itself" into dual-nationality State. or as the Israeli Radical wish : Bi-National State.
Never. Forget it. We have country to build. We have no patience for jokes. All this BDS Campaign is a joke, a waste of time. Israel becoming Bi-National. Really ? will USA, Sweden, France, become Bi-National ?
Really ? Are you serious ?

Just seeing what's going on all around Israel, how Arabs can't tolerate other Arabs if they do not belong to the same religion, sect, or tribe, who in his right mind thinks that Arabs will get along with...the Jews!... whom they were taught to hate all their lives, learning that Jews are the sons of pigs and apes, and that Hadith says Jews should be killed..

"isn't that like the difference between the Chinese Guangdong cuisine in comparison to Sichuan's?" - your comment.

In China, we have about 2 dozen distinct cuisines - Guandong is not one of them. The 2 main haredi groups are very different. Prof. Israel Shahak and Prof. Norton Mezvinsky have written as follows:-

"The Ashkenazi community that emerged in northern France and western Germany between the tenth and twelfth centuries became more innovative and began to deviate more from previously established patterns than any other community with the possible exceptions of small communities in remote countries, such as Georgia. The Ashkenazi divergences became embedded and persisted. Until this day, for example, most pious Ashkenazi Jews refuse to eat meat or any foods containing meat that are prepared under supervision of non-Ashkenazi rabbis; pious members of other Jewish communities are content with dietary supervision of rabbis not belonging to their community. Thus, a pious Sephardi Jew, visiting a pious Ashkenazi Jew will eat food prepared by the latter, but a pious Ashkenazi Jew visiting a Sephardi Jew will refuse to eat any foods containing meat or often any food whatsoever. Ashkenazi exclusiveness is evident in many other aspects of their religious conduct. Sephardi Jews, on the other hand, developed as early as the twelfth century an exclusiveness of their own, based upon the consideration that they were superior in some ways to other Jews. The Spanish and Portuguese Jews, a part of Sephardi Jewry, especially developed a pride in the supposed "purity of descent." (In Hebrew Sephardi means Spanish.) Most of them not only refused to marry but also often despised being together with Ashkenazi Jews. Moses Maimonides, who lived until 1204 and was both a rabbi and the greatest medieval Jewish philosopher, moralized in a testament addressed to his son:

"Guard your soul by not looking into books composed by Ashkenazi rabbis, who believe in the blessed Lord only when they eat beef seasoned with vinegar and garlic. They believe that the vapor of vinegar and the smoke of garlic will ascend to their nostrils and thus make them understand that the blessed Lord is near to them ... You, my son, should stay only in the pleasant company of our Sephardi brothers, who are called the men of Andalusia [or southern Spain, then ruled by the Muslims ] because only they have brains and are clever."

Similar statements, in which members of a Jewish community express feelings of their superiority over other Jews, abound in Jewish literature and are common. Even as late as the 1960s older Sephardi rabbis and other Jewish men in Jerusalem, when signing their names, would invariably add the Hebrew initials meaning "pure Spanish." Ashkenazi exclusiveness, as it developed and deepened over centuries, however, became more all-encompassing and extreme than Sephardi exclusiveness."

There is a huge difference - for example, in northern London, in Golders Green and Hampstead, visit any ladies hair-dresser. They will tell you that many Jewish women are so religious that they shave their heads, and then come to buy wigs!!!! You will never find something like that in the Jewish district of Istanbul or elsewhere in Asia.

I know China very well, L6. Don't tell a Guangdong person there is no Guangdong cuisine; he wouldn't like you very much.

Of course there are different traditions in food and other stuff between communities who were separated for 2000 years. That's one of the things great about Israel; you can enjoy food from different traditions and tastes!

In a world worthy of the epithet" civilized" with a UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS and a UN to arbitrate and adjudicate international disputes to sustain that epithet the only way to settle such conflicts is through
a-Application/Implementation of the dictates of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights
b-Application/Implementation of Universal will as expressed by the UNITED NATIONS and the principles it was founded to uphold and to enforce when the need arises(Chapter 7)
Both adjudicated through BASIC PRIMITIVE JUSTICE
Re(a) throughout modern, ie post WWI, history the Palestinian Arabs were denied the right to SELF DETERMINATION for obvious demographic reasons being 80% of the population up to the 1918s and 62% up to 1948/9s

Re (b) the UN resolution for the PARTITION of Palestine, Israel's sole legitimate basis for existence, called for a Jewish state in 52% of the land for 32 % of the population of which some 70% were FOREIGN born i.e. ALIENS and an Arab state with 48% of the land for 62% of the population of which more than 98% were indigenous to the land .
Whether that Partition resolution reflects even handedness, justice or observance of the DECLARATION dictates is for the honest reader to judge.

Despite that flagrant injustice the thus born state of Israel did exceed its UN land allocation by militarily expanding its domination to a further 22% in the 1948/9s and expanding militarily into the balance in 1967 ending with a total of 100% domination of Palestine; with the explicit but tacit USA approval of the former and implicit approval of the latter.

Hence the QUESTION IS;
ARE PALESTINIANS entitled ,according to both, to their UN allocated portion of the land in which throughout modern history they constituted a demographic majority in all of the land ?
OR NOT ?
The ongoing “peace process” determination to overlook and ignore both violations of the fundamentals of the Declaration and UN resolutions will make of whatever comes out a solid renounce and negation of both the DECLARATION and the UN, a solid declaration of the return of mankind to Jungle Rule and a straight forward renunciation of the presumed civilization of the Modern World.
Only a settlement that negates and nullifies the universally, mainly the Western, supported Israeli violations of Palestinian rights; one that abides by, respects and redresses both violations will have the opportunity to endure.
Short of that, that can only be attained through an official universal serious threat to DELEGITIMIZE Israel, the conflict will NOT end.

You know very well, Omar, that the problem Arabs in Palestine had with the Partition, was the principal of partition itself. When the Partition Plan came out, they didn't say "oh, it's not enough, and not fair partition; we the Arabs deserve, 70%, not 48%!!" or "we deserve 85%, not 48%!!", or "we deserve 99%, and only 1% should go for the Jews!!"
.
For the Arabs, the very idea of the Jewish people exercising their right for self determination was unacceptable, no matter the size located to it!
.
Be honest, omar. You know this is the root cause of the entire conflict. Always has been, and is still today. Even today, the Palestinian 'moderate' Abbas refuses to recognize the principal set under that 1947 resolution, and accept a Jewish state as mentioned in UN resolution 181. And you talk about the Palestinians right to the land they lost due to their 1947 aggression?
.
Taking only favorable parts of UN resolution, and ignoring the parts they don't like, is a common Palestinian practice.
.
You keep talking about the UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS. Show me the line there that deprives the Jewish people from their right to a nation state of their own, as the Palestinian constantly do. Show me the paragraph in that gives the Palestinians the right to take away from the Jewish people its right of self-determination, as the Palestinians do in the National Charter, article 20; show me the section where the Palestinians are releaved from their commitment under the UN Charter, Article 2, that "All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state...".
.
One can't launch an aggression in order to gain land, and whine if he loses land. Just ask Germans expelled from Konigsberg after WWII, now the Russian city of Kaliningrad..

I think that with the growing Islamization of Europe, we will see a growing trend of avoiding Israeli products sales in Europe.

More and more parliament members will have to escalate their rhetoric about Israel in order to win the growing Muslim vote. Two European leaders already owe their election to the Muslim vote - Danish Prime Minister, and French President.

Europe is going down. Israel shall and will continue to offer value to whoever wants to buy it. My gues is there always be those who will buy also when Europe's ship sinks.

No nation on earth would accept to Partition of its land with a minority that grew from 10% in the 1918s to 36% only through a Foreign nation, the UK in this case, allowing in Jewish emigrants against the express will and constant opposition of the majority of its indigenous non alien population as would any other people do when it comes to its country.

However this is not the point.The point I make is that Israel has expanded in 1948/49s beyond its UN allocation by 22% and was, still is, in violation of UN will. its one and only universal "legetimacy" basis.
Whether I like that or not is not important when addressing UNIVERSAL will.That somebody wins a case in court DOES NOT allow him to exceed what the court adjugated and ruled as his share.
" Show me the line etc" is rediculous and perverts the issue; we do NOT dispute the Jewish people his right to SELF DETERMINATION in pprinciple but we certainly reject it and oppose it when Aliens, Jews in this case, intentend to exercise it in our own homeland and attain it through the DISLOCATION,DISPOSSESSION, DISFRANCHISEMENT and SUBJUGATION of our own
"show me the line in the DECLARATION" that allows Israel to expand beyond its UN mandated land allocation and delineated borders and deals with Palestinians the way Israel did .

Once again you and yours quote SELECTIVELY what suits you from UN lore and forget and ignore all else as you do by ignoring UN mandated Israeli/Jewish land allocation and totally forget its RESOLUTIONS re Palestinin war refugees RIGHT OF RETURN to homes and homeland.
What you have now was attained through conquest ; unacceptable to the UN to which I refer

Omar, in 1947 there was no 'Palestinian nation' to divide. The fact that Arabs living in Palestine call themselves 'Palestinians', while it is perfect marketing move, it doesn't prove ownership of 100% of Palestine. You know very well that those 'Palestinians' owned less than half of the land. Most of it was public, and some other part owned by Jews.

Therefore - the basic Palestinian claim that 'majority' of people didn't agree to give up part of the land is inherently false, because it wasn't their to give up!

The historical rights for Jews in Palestine are unquestionable. Exercising those rights could have been done in dialogue between those two movements - one accepting the the right of return of the other, while the other recognizes the fact that over time changes occurred, which can't be ignored. This is logic of partition.

You contradict yourself when you say:
'The point I make is that Israel has expanded in 1948/49s beyond its UN allocation by 22% and was, still is, in violation of UN will. its one and only universal "legetimacy" basis.'

The same UN resolution 181 you complain about that Israel violated on the territorial aspect, is the same resolution you keep justifying why the Palestinians keep violating the same resolution on the specific definition of one of the two states being Jewish.

At least be consistent, omar. If you demand Israel compliance with that resolution territorial aspects, then you must accept Israel as the nation state of the Jewish people, as specified by the same resolution. You can't eat the cake and still have it as a whole as if not a single bite was taken out of it..

You claim that Israel ignores the parts they do not like. I would say that the Arab conduct is unacceptable, practically stating:

"We, the Arabs, have free hand to attack Israel, grab its land, and eliminate it if we can. If we succeed - great! - We have win the jackpot!! - If we lose land as a result of our aggression, we can always claim that it is illegal to take land by force, we will get back to square 1, and when we feel time is right, we will attack again, trying to grab land from Israel, or destroy it if we can... and do tyhat over and over again! - Great strategy! - This way, we the Arabs have nothing to lose, only win!!"

Well, omar, nice strategy. But it exists only in ferry-tales. The Palestinians run a century-long existential aggression against the Jews, against Israel. I suggest they do two things:

1. Stop it.
2. Assume responsibility for past wrongdoings. This includes the acceptance of land lost. Can't do the time, don't do the crime!

I have been under the impression that I have been addressing a mature reader/commentator who will not take refuge in the utterly false, universally bankrupt and childishly transparent premise of Palestine having no people, or of having a people with NO human rights.

You do not thus disappoint me as much as you warm my heart with the proof you provide of your and yours total bankruptcy: moral, intellectual and political. By referring to this universally discarded absurdity you only prove your racism that assumes that 300 years of old history will efface 1500 years of modern history.

The single reason for that privilege being its ”chosenness” and "exceptionalism"!

You not only fail to address the points I make but put in great effort to avoid discussing them at all.

You raise the issue of the Jewish state totally out of its original context that also equally mandated an Arab state in 48% of their homeland hoping to divert attention away from Israeli expansionism by occupying in 1948/49 some 22% of Palestine BEYOND its UN mandated land allocation.

Ending this part with no clear definite opinion about its comprehensibility or selectivity not daring to come out openly and frankly about that.

You include within inverted commas, " ",what you want to imply as being said by me or other Arabs WITHOUT indicating whom your "....", which is a quote, refers to; that is childish dishonesty.

You end with a back street level conclusion that presumes, you hope, it will efface history , legality, human rights and legitimacy; that is not insulting to the majority of The Economist readers' intelligence but is another proof of your and yours bankruptcy: moral, intellectual, legal, legitimacy wise and political!

The whole world … maybe if there was a vote at the UN … after all … the Muslims have 60+ VOTES in the OIC (Organization of Islamic Conference) … and they only need to 'twist' a few arms of those 'poor' states WITHOUT OIL THAT THEY CAN BRIBE!

I clearly specified that Zionism perfectly understood that there are non-Jews in Palestine, and that a compromise was necessary. You blame me for trying to "efface" modern history, as if I claimed there were "no other people" around, as if I suggested that those people "have no rights". All those are lies.

It is not nice to lie, omar.

I also never mentioned anything about "being chosen" as a reason for anything. Another lie of yours, omar.

The Jewish state is EXACTLY the context of your question, as it relates to the same package that defined borders for those two states. It was a package deal. Take it or leave it. If you want it - you must accept all elements of it, including the Jewish state. You can't just take what servers your interest, and ignore parts you don't like.

Anyway, in 1948 there was no deal, as the Palestinians rejected it. And if you are not committed to it, you have NO RIGHT to demand the other said remains committed to it. Ever heard of an agreement that only one party signs it, and remains committed to it of the other one refuses to sign it??

the moment the British left, and the Palestinians refused to take what was allocated to them - it became a no-man's land. Part of it was taken by Jordan, the other by Egypt, and another part by Israel.

When that war ended, four separate bilateral cease-fire negotiations started between Israel and Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and Egypt. And what about the 'Palestinians'? - they didn't even asked to be a party to those talks. Maybe because... there was no such a people in 1949??

You know what is also revealing? - The war ended early 1949. Jordan annexed the West Bank only in April 1950. For a full year, between 1949-1950, NO 'PALESTINIAN' stood up, demanding the establishment of the State of Palestine in the West bank and Gaza, with East Jerusalem as its capital.

Why is that, omar? - Israel did n't rule that area at that time. Why did the 'Palestinians' avoid even demanding recognition from their own brothers?? - Maybe because i 1950, there wasn't really a 'Palestinian people'?

I didn't say Arabs say the quoted marked paragraph. I meant that it is as if they are saying "...".

Just in case I wasn't clear enough - I meant that the approach you presented, demanding that Israel goes back to the 1947 Partition Plan borders, is "practically saying", meaning it is like saying... that the Arab aggressors can always o on aggression trying to annihilate Israel without risking anything, because if the Arabs lose due to their aggression, they will always claim that "it is illegal to take land by force", and they will ask it back, us in order to try again another aggression, some other time..

This is what's childish, omar, never assuming responsibility for your wrongdoing..

Oh tosh, Omar. After a hundred years of steadily negating every principle of "civilized" behavior, of vociferously demanding that every last Jew be slaughtered ("Itbach al Yahud", remember?), of gleefully predicting that the Jews in pre-state Mandate territory would be driven into the sea, that the Jews in post-1948 Israel be ground up in the dust of Arab armies , and the literally thousands of individual acts of multiple murder committed by Palestinian "moderates", not to mention the fundamentalist troglodytes in Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the like, I think we can answer your question quite succinctly.
"ARE PALESTINIANS entitled ,according to both, to their UN allocated portion of the land in which throughout modern history they constituted a demographic majority in all of the land ?
OR NOT ?
No, they are not entitled. There are many in Israel, and the West
who believe that the Palestinians could be denatured, i.e., persuaded to give up their murderous ways, by the undeserved gift of a "state". But if you are as Arab as your name suggests, you know that is a false hope. So no, the conflict will not end as you suggest. And the BDS program will probably prolong the conflict by engendering the equally false hope among Arabs that Western economic pressure will work where the old Arab boycott (remember?) failed even when the entire world was dependent on OPEC (no longer, as the Economist itself advises). So, move along Omar, nothing to see here.

A-Once again you revert to the universally discarded and intellectually and morally bankrupt presumption about Palestine having no people or a people with NO rights by stating" Maybe because i 1950, there wasn't really a 'Palestinian people'? ".The rhetorical "maybe" does not veil your, and many of yours, stand; it is the escape door you prepare.
Be that what it may the undeniable historical fact is that Palestine has been demonstrably (look around you in Jerusalem and elsewhere) predominantly Palestinian- ARAB, both Moslem and
Christian: Demographically, culturally linguistically from the Sixth Century AD up to the imperialism supported racist Zionist conquest of 1948/49.
That the state of Israel that came to be changed that is principally due to:
1-The influx of RACIALLY SCREENED and RACIALLY APPROVED Jewish emigrants.
2-The Ethnic cleansing Zionist campaign implemented through
a- MASSACRES of Civilians (Deir Yassin , Tantura etc),
b-The mass DEPORTATION of civilians after massacring their men folk (Ramla etc)
c-The denial of Palestinian war refugees their inalienable RIGHT of RETURN to home and homeland.
(All punishable war crimes per se and being the outgrowth of a RACIALLY/RACIST conquest)
HOWEVER the important fact to note here is its outcome: an Israel with 70% of its population being , at the time, FOREIGN BORN i.e. ALIENS to the land and the region.

B-You did not bring up the issue of "chosenness", I did because it is the under laying historical/cultural foundation of Judaism and Zionism best exemplified by the presumed "right" of Jewish return after some 20 centuries of absence ONLY for the RACIALLY qualified.

C-You bring up the issue of the Jewishness of Israel as being UN mandated by the Partition of Palestine Resolution choosing to ignore what was also mandated in that same resolution i.e. the ARAB state in 48% of their homeland in a typical choose and pick exercise wherein what is yours is yours and what is for the others ( 48% of Palestine) is yours also.

D- I do not LIE, I bring about boldly and openly FACTS, universal principles, natural justice principles and UN resolutions that displease you while you pick and choose in total disregard of the " the truth, the WHOLE truth"

E- Palestinian/other Arab relations is an issue I will NOT discuss with my declared enemy.

Despite the multitude of lies, fabrications, abuses and effusions of your racially/racist driven hate I appreciate, and I am NOT surprised at, your "honest" NO in " No, they are not entitled ".
It goes a great way to denude you and yours as racially blinded and racially driven culturally,confessionally, historically and presently.
It is an IRONY of historical importance that those who suffered most from RACISM shall revert to RACISM as a last resort.
Yes it is your last, and lethal, resort.

A - I am sorry to say, but you lie again, as if I refereed to Palestine as "having no people or a people with NO rights". I never said that.

What I clearly say is as follows:

There were Arab people in Palestine, and those Arabs have rights! - That's why the Jews in Palestine agreed with the partition principal, and ALSO COMMITTED to respect the rights of Israel's minorities.

As part of The Declaration of Establishment of the State of Israel, you have this:

"WE APPEAL - in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months - to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions".

So kindly stop lying about my statements as if I say there were no Arabs in Palestine, or that those Arabs do not have rights.

What I also say, is that those Arabs until very recently - particularly after the 1967 war - the Arabs living in Palestine didn't identify themselves as a separate nation, one that deserves its nation state. That's why in 1950 they didn't claim sovereignty over the West Bank following the 1948 war, when no-one did.

That's why until 1967, no 'Palestinian' rose up demanding the establishment of 'Palestine' in the West Bank & Gaza with East Jerusalem as its capital, at a time that Israel wasn't around in those areas. The Palestinians didn't do that even though not only the entire West Bank & Gaza didn't have a SINGLE Jewish settlement, but in fact those areas were Jew-free!

That's why I claim that the settlements are not the real reason for not establishing 'Palestine' now. The settlements, just like the 'occupation', merely serve as an easy-to-sell excuse for the continuation of aggression against Israel, aimed at its destruction!

You refer me to Jerusalem's demography, however since the Ottoman period were numbers can be retrieved, both Muslim and Jewish communities numbered in the Thousands, some time having more Muslims, and sometimes more Jews, even before the influx of Jews thanks to the modern Zionist movement.

The naked truth is that East Jerusalem became 'Arab East Jerusalem' following the 1948 when the thousands years' old Jewish community was cleansed from that city, just like happened with the thousands of years old Jewish community in Hebron, cleansed in 1929.

I guess you're not going to advocate the right of return of those people to their homes, do you?

As per the composition of the Jewish state - It is none of anyone's business whom Israel's government decides to admit and who is left out.

If according to Japan's immigration law, Japan can deny citizenship from a 21 year old person even though his mother is Japanese, only because his father is not, and that 21 year old guy still wants to keep his father's nationality, and no one claims Japan to be racist - then such claims should not be made about the Jewish State on its immigration laws.

Never did Israel execute a policy of ethnic cleansing. Even the most likable example of Deir Yassin, was an operation performed in April 1948 by the Irgun in April, before Israel's establishment, at times when the Irgun didn't answer to the Jewish leadership of the land. Within wees after Israel's establishment, the Israeli government dismantled the Irgun.

It is staggering to see, how Israel bashers just build their Israel de-legitimization campaign on isolated events while presenting them as if those are the official Israeli policies, while at the same time ignore the STATE DRIVEN nature of the Arabs States and Palestinians' existential aggression against Israel.

Israel didn't run mass deportations. Most Arabs left due to the orders they received from their own leaders, as well as due to fear of war. There were isolated cases driven by local Israeli commanders, but those events amount to a negligible figures. In Ramla today, to remind you, resides a large Arab community. Arabs were forced out of Ramla in 1948, but mass deportation it wasn't..

There is no legal right of return for the refugees, for the same reason Greek Cypriots have no right to return to their homes in Occupied Northern Cyprus. This was decided, without appeal by the EU court of human rights.

If ether is even a 'Palestine' established, Palestinians will have to settle there. What;'s the point of establishing a Palestinian state, if diaspora Palestinians are going to settle in another country anyway?!

"Chosenness" is Judaism has nothing to do with the claims to the land. being "chosen", for the religious Jew, means he has more obligations towards God, not privileges. The lack of privileges demands is one reason why "chosenness" has nothing to do with racism.

The other reason is that Judaism is open to anyone to join the "chosen people", no matter if he was born a Catholic Italian, or a pagan Nigerian, or an Orthodox Greek, or a Chinese Budhist, or a Swedish Atheist.

Even you, omar, can become a Jew if you like. Would you want to become part of the "chosen people"?

Therefore Judaism, being open to all, can't be accused of racism.

Yes, I do bring up the UN definition of a Jewish State. About the 48%, the Arabs didn't want it. The offer therefore went off the table that moment also because they tried to land-grab the other 52%.

And as I proved it above - you do lie, occasionally..

You can avoid discussion other Palestinian-Arab issues if you want, of course. It is ridiculous, but I understand that this is something very hard addressing, not to mention defending..

You said: "Once again you and yours quote SELECTIVELY what suits you from UN …"

THE UN VOTED FOR PARTITION AFTER A VOTE!!! Your side REJECTED … and SUFFERED THE CONSEQUENCES!

You want back what you LOST in WAR? Too Fucking bad!

1% of the JEWISH POPULATION DIED IN THAT WAR OF INDEPENDENCE thrust on the Jewish State by the Arab/Muslims and their persistent intransigence!

NEVER AGAIN!

Your side is 'buried' in the past and will remain the bottom feeders on Planet Earth … especially when their OIL is gone and 'Global Warming' turns their lands into dust! Where will the millions immigrate? Start making plans … countries are/will be closing their doors … they've read the trends! Free advice …

The world hadefinitively open his eyes on the crimes of Israel and the linked zionist financial(say criminal)international lobby.It's time to fight back the attempt of zionism of ruling the world by forcing an attack to Iran that would widen the shadow of the terrorist state led by Nethanyahu on a strategic area like the Persian Gulf,and use this move to push high the oil prices and find a new source of money to be used for new crimes like the intrusion into the sovereignity of ALL THE WESTERN COUNTRIES,FROM USA TO ITALY,FROM WALL STREET TO THE "EUROPEAN INSTITUTIONS".The liberty and sovereignity of the West,the survival of the Middle Class in all those Countries,menaced and exploited by the Turbofinance having the zionists at helm,is an historical,moral,ethical problem to be solved by organizing a big lobby using the same method they use,and including the Obama administration,the Putin Russia,the european states not wanting to obey to these gangsters,the Islamic world.Hard finger up,as someone writes here?Ready to be fractured.