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Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

I'd like to hear some more detail about how they'd do that. Making the argument over Krauser doesn't work, after all, Akutagawa beat Kabaji, yet he'll never get even close to beating Tezuka.

The hell I know how would they do that, I'm not the one gathering data

Krauser in this works perfectly (you're talking about Kabaji, REALLY? KA BA JI?).

Although, you can say that Shiraishi wouldn't return Gin shots, and he'd still be better than Kirihara. I think Power Players should be out of the list.

Originally Posted by Kaoz

Alternatively you're underrating Viking Horn.

I was talking about the singles list actually.

It's a delayed shot... that's it. Not fast, not powerful, not lifted, not lob, not drop. Just... delayed. You'll get used to it after a few drives (backhand Viking Horn exists right? It would be stupid if Kai wasn't able to return any shot aimed to his backhand).

I was talking about your "No need for this IMO" sentence...

Originally Posted by Kaoz

It's a bit difficult to say. They should beat any synchro pair because of Niou's abilities, I'm not sure how they'd do against strong non-synchro MSer pairs though, i.e. Inui/Yanagi, Tachibana/Chitose and Shiraishi/Kirihara. If they beat those guys, they can probably go just above the twins.

More opinions would be great... and a match between Synchro vs No Synchro would be better.

Edit: considering that WoK (a great pair) lost against a regular synchro pair... Yagyuu/Niou (with all their techs and tricks) would be good enough to beat them I think. They should be at DP's level.

Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

Originally Posted by Kaoz

Well, other opinions on this please. Can Devil Akaya deal with Tornado Snake and Gyro Laser based on the stat increase from Red Eyes Kirihara or not?

Can't see why DM!Kirihara could handle it.
In Devil Mode he goes for the person who attacked him or angered him when he thinks he can. As shown in his match with Krauser, granted that was Singles, but when paired with Shiraishi against Miyako/Matsudaira i'm pretty sure the person he lost his temper against was Matsudaira and he went straight for him.
Whereas Kaidoh he was a slimy bastard and went for Inui who I don't think there are many characters who have looked as pathetic as he did in that match.

All the evidence points towards Kirihara being unable to handle the Snakes + Gyro Laser combo regardless of Bloodshot Mode or Devil Mode.

Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

I don't think Kirihara is one to play mind games. If he can beat you up with a tennis ball he will, so the fact he didn't beat Kaidoh up with a tennis ball means he can't do it, at least not reliably. I don't think he's necessarily weaker than Kaidoh, but it's certainly not going to be a beatdown like devil Kirihara versus Inui.

Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

You made that list in June, it's outdated and has some WTF pairs like Tezuka/Inui u.u

What you said about Atobe and Yagyuu made sense though... where would you put Platinum Pair in the list? I think it should be above the Mutsus.

I don't know if they should be above the Mutsu. Yagyuu last confirmed match was with National! Niou without Illusion. He is currently in 6th court. I'll put him at 3rd court at best, as I see him as a player around WoK level.

3rd Court get stomp by 1st stringer. Niou have to do wayyyyyy better than syncho with Yagyuu to beat Mutsu pair. In my opinion, at least. Mutsu doesn't look that impressive, but their feat are impressive by stomping the 3rd court.

And Tezuka/Inui pair is not wtf. It's in the manga.

Also, That list is missing Date/Ban, which should be somewhere above Mutsu pair.

Last edited by -Ken-; January 03, 2013 at 08:14 PM.

Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

@Ken

Remember Niou/Anybody Stronger than Oishi > Mutsu's.
Niou can become Mutsu to interrupt their Synchro.

Niou/Yagyuu >>> Mutsu/Mutsu. Niou becomes Mutsu and then you have Curving Lasers and Laserbeams being fired non stop?
I'm sorry but Curving Laser is far better than Moon Volley lol. if Niou/Oishi can win then Niou/Yagyuu is a given.

Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

Originally Posted by -Ken-

I don't know if they should be above the Mutsu. Yagyuu last confirmed match was with National! Niou without Illusion. He is currently in 6th court. I'll put him at 3rd court at best, as I see him as a player around WoK level.

3rd Court get stomp by 1st stringer. Niou have to do wayyyyyy better than syncho with Yagyuu to beat Mutsu pair. In my opinion, at least. Mutsu doesn't look that impressive, but their feat are impressive by stomping the 3rd court.

And Tezuka/Inui pair is not wtf. It's in the manga.

Also, That list is missing Date/Ban, which should be somewhere above Mutsu pair.

With WTF pairs I mean ¨not real pairs¨, those that cannot be tiered, like the pair that Yanagi/Sanada made just to screw around.

Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

With WTF pairs I mean ¨not real pairs¨, those that cannot be tiered, like the pair that Yanagi/Sanada made just to screw around.

They can be tiered.
Tezuka/Inui is almost a parallel to Sanada/Yanagi.

Albeit we don't know how good Tezuka and Inui's teamwork is in comparison to Sanada and Yanagi's is.

Originally Posted by Hardy

Yeah, Sealed Step. Kikumaru has that, the best reflexes in PoT, the best Vision in PoT, yet he had trouble with VH and Chotarou's serve. Konomi loves making Kikumaru look like a handicap player sometimes, he should have won that match 6-0. It just doesn't make sense.

yeah that annoys me also.
Kikumaru should have kicked his ass. It must be that his Technique is like... 1.5 or something.
With Sealed Step and his Bazooka he should have had a comfortable win against Lower Higa 3 guys.

Neither do I, but it's not like Kawamura will be able to hit more than one or two. If he could have, he probably would have used it earlier against Date/Ban, but it seems the strongest he did prior to the 108th style was a 25th style. You can just get out of the way of those one or two real high level ones and Kawamura's arm is probably pretty much at the limit after the second one.

Originally Posted by Airgrimes

And Kawamura survived many Summer of Danji's.
I think it's extremely unlikely and wouldn't make sense if Krauser's SC was stronger than Summer of Danji.
Date > Krauser imo, and Kawamura should really survive whatever Krauser tries to throw at him.

This is a valid point though.

Originally Posted by Airgrimes

And it's not like Krauser's got good power endurance, he got put to the ground by Kirihara lol. He's not like Kawamura.

Kawamura would outlast Krauser. Kawamura > Krauser.

This on the other hand I'm not so sure about. Krauser got beaten up by Kirihara pretty badly, no doubt about it, but on the other hand he survived 7 games against Devil Akaya (indicated by the fact that the match actually ended with 5-7 instead of being a forfeit), unlike Inui who collapsed after only 1.

Kawamura's endurance is probably higher, but I wouldn't call Krauser's bad by any stretch of the imagination.

Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

Originally Posted by Kaoz

How is that relevant when Kintarou can do it just fine now as well?

Kintaro has reached Ryoma's level. Not vice-versa.
Kintaro has evolved to do it in the midst of a match.
I think the person who is most comfortable at 10ball is the better if we are to compare them.
I think its clear Ryoma is the most comfortable at 10ball.
So do you have a reason as to why you have Kintaro above him?

Quote:

Well, discuss where exactly then.

Above Kaidoh or just below.
Whilst the Gyro Laser is an amazing shot, it is in the same direction as the Tornado Snake.
Whereas the Curving Laser is in a completely diferent direction on the otherside of where the straight Laserbeam would land.
So Yagyuu has a more lethal combination.

Quote:

Neither do I, but it's not like Kawamura will be able to hit more than one or two. If he could have, he probably would have used it earlier against Date/Ban, but it seems the strongest he did prior to the 108th style was a 25th style. You can just get out of the way of those one or two real high level ones and Kawamura's arm is probably pretty much at the limit after the second one.

This on the other hand I'm not so sure about. Krauser got beaten up by Kirihara pretty badly, no doubt about it, but on the other hand he survived 7 games against Devil Akaya (indicated by the fact that the match actually ended with 5-7 instead of being a forfeit), unlike Inui who collapsed after only 1.

Kawamura's endurance is probably higher, but I wouldn't call Krauser's bad by any stretch of the imagination.

All irrelevant since Krauser in reality should have nothing that can KO Kawamura.
No matter what happens Kawamura will outlast him in their exchanges of Power shots.
Krauser couldn't last running up and down a court for... 3, 4 or 5 games?

Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

Classically in any sports manga the 'guy from another country' always has superior base stats compared to Japanese or there wouldn't even be a point to mention it was a guy from another country. It's easy to forget that Kirihara is supposed to be the feared rising star so the fact that Krauser beats him handily when Kirihara doesn't have devil form pretty much puts him as top of the non top tier characters. In NPOT Krauser took a dive in stats and is almost certainly far worse than the average Black Jacket so I don't see how he's supposed to beat Kawamura who has the power of Jesus. I guess it's another example of how the official U17 training sucks hard where you have a guy who starts out with 'guy from another country' superior stats ends up being tired out after 3 games after some supposedly awesome training.

Sometimes I wonder if some of the characters in POT can even finish a normal set without tiring themselves out, and I'm not talking about playing against an opponent with an endurance style either (e.g. Atobe). D2 in the quarterfinals comes to mind where Hyotei was up 5-2 and then ran out of energy when they couldn't get the last point, so basically if they can't win 6-1 or faster that team auto-loses against anybody?

Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

Originally Posted by Phantron

Classically in any sports manga the 'guy from another country' always has superior base stats compared to Japanese or there wouldn't even be a point to mention it was a guy from another country. It's easy to forget that Kirihara is supposed to be the feared rising star so the fact that Krauser beats him handily when Kirihara doesn't have devil form pretty much puts him as top of the non top tier characters. In NPOT Krauser took a dive in stats and is almost certainly far worse than the average Black Jacket so I don't see how he's supposed to beat Kawamura who has the power of Jesus. I guess it's another example of how the official U17 training sucks hard where you have a guy who starts out with 'guy from another country' superior stats ends up being tired out after 3 games after some supposedly awesome training.

Sometimes I wonder if some of the characters in POT can even finish a normal set without tiring themselves out, and I'm not talking about playing against an opponent with an endurance style either (e.g. Atobe). D2 in the quarterfinals comes to mind where Hyotei was up 5-2 and then ran out of energy when they couldn't get the last point, so basically if they can't win 6-1 or faster that team auto-loses against anybody?

Kirihara's no rising star. He's ass. His role was taken over by Toyama. Kirihara was supposed to be the anti-Ryoma (had similar skills, had equal rivals that he wanted to take down; Yanagi, Yukimura, and Sanada in place of Inui, Fuji, and Tezuka respectively) but then he just became a scrub.

Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

Originally Posted by Brandnewkid

Kirihara's no rising star. He's ass. His role was taken over by Toyama. Kirihara was supposed to be the anti-Ryoma (had similar skills, had equal rivals that he wanted to take down; Yanagi, Yukimura, and Sanada in place of Inui, Fuji, and Tezuka respectively) but then he just became a scrub.

To be fair, Kintarou had it worst. He got his role as a main character taken over by Ryoma. That's some huge potential stolen right there.

Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

Originally Posted by Brandnewkid

Kirihara's no rising star. He's ass. His role was taken over by Toyama. Kirihara was supposed to be the anti-Ryoma (had similar skills, had equal rivals that he wanted to take down; Yanagi, Yukimura, and Sanada in place of Inui, Fuji, and Tezuka respectively) but then he just became a scrub.

Kirihara was never anti-Ryoma. If anything, he was portrayed as Fuji's anti-type. Both are the prodigy of their team, Fuji is as good as Kirihara is bad, Fuji improves at the same rate as Kirihara, Fuji's playstyle is based on defensive counters, Kirihara's is based on offensive attacks. Kirihara has bloodshot eye mode, Fuji has blind eye mode. Both wanted to beat Tezuka. Both evolve when in a pinch. Both got shat on by Konomi and thrown on the bench in New PoT. There are much more comparisons with Fuji.

Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

Originally Posted by -Ken-

To be fair, Kintarou had it worst. He got his role as a main character taken over by Ryoma. That's some huge potential stolen right there.

Personally, as for a main character I'm extremely grateful he threw away Kintaro for Ryoma.
Kintaro being the typical Shounen main character, rather unintelligent, lack of common sense, strength far beyond what their physical appearance shows, wild with lack of manners, I don't think I would have wanted him as main character.

Kintaro didn't have it too bad. He was supposed to be an opposite to Ryoma from his intro.
The difference being Ryoma had it tough in Kanto, while it seems everybody in Kansai besides Shitenhouji are a pile of shit in this series so we could never really measure his accomplishments.
In fact Kintaro now has 10ball so its sort of bs to say he's had it bad. He has had enormous improvement and he hasn't been neglected at all despite not even being that popular at all. He came 30th in the last poll.

Kirihara has had it bad. At the very start he began as Ryoma's rival, but then he went onto an Anti-Fuji route like Fayte mentioned.
Thing is, by Nationals he stopped being Anti-Fuji.
Unlike Kirihara, who in Rikkai has Yagyuu, Yanagi, Niou, Sanada and Yukimura as great Singles players for senpai,
Fuji was with Tezuka, Ryoma, and... Inui who's body couldn't match his data.

So Konomi had to bring Fuji up and above Kirihara. Kirihara has been left in the dust imo.
Fuji will wipe the floor with Kirihara right now.
Kirihara went from Fuji tier to Kaidoh tier. That's a kick down.