What is your opinion on the authorities handling the 3 “person’s of interest” vs. the 2 suspects that they have charged and held?

Some US media’s have been questioning it.

Donna on
June 8th, 2005 1:58 pm

no problem

Donna on
June 8th, 2005 2:00 pm

Red? I read in a much earlier article, can’t remember the sourse, about natalee’s possible internet connection with arubians, prior to her visit, have you hear that?

T Leary on
June 8th, 2005 2:00 pm

Good call Red.

The 3 people of interest angle seem to have evaperated into thin air.

???

RedLight on
June 8th, 2005 2:03 pm

STOP IT

CeeCee on
June 8th, 2005 2:05 pm

This is posted on the Carlos & Charlies Website
To: The General Public that visit our website:

Due to the recent events on our island, we feel it’s of importance to write a letter to the general public in hopes of eliminating any misconceptions that have arisen due to the events of the past week.

Because of the multiple articles in various local and international newspapers, as well as television broadcast coverage on the disappearance of Natalie Holloway, we feel the responsibility to correspond to explain our existence in this extremely important matter while expressing our concerns for all individuals and families involved in this sad and unfortunate situation.

To re-cap events over the past week – A group of 40 Americans came to our restaurant on Sunday evening, the 29th of May. The group entered the restaurant around 11: 30 pm. As always, all individuals were identified as being at least 18 Ã¢â‚¬” years of age before entering our restaurant. Being a Sunday evening, the restaurant was quiet with a small crowd of around 15 patrons. The entire group of 40 Americans stayed for about an hour and a half Ã¢â‚¬” leaving the restaurant at 1 am – our closing time. It was not until 48 hours later that we were told that the group that had visited our restaurant was a high school group from Birmingham, Alabama Ã¢â‚¬” and one of the students (Natalee Holloway) had been missing since early Monday morning. Since finding out about the disappearance of Miss Holloway, we have diligently worked with Aruba officials and the local police department in hopes of helping to further the ongoing investigation. We immediately posted multiple “missing person” sign with a photo and description of Miss Holloway. We have made our employees available on an ongoing basis to meet with those officials in hopes of helping the investigative team. Out of our concern for the safety and security of Miss Holloway, we contacted a spokesperson for the Holloway family to let them know that we were adding an additional $5,000 to the existing $50,000 reward monies for any information leading to the disappearance of their daughter. Out of respect for Natalee and her family, we cancelled all scheduled events this past week as well as any scheduled festivities and parties for the upcoming weeks.

We want the citizens of Aruba to know that we are a law abiding business that has been on the island for 7 years. We are part of the Grupo-Anderson’s restaurant company that has been in business for more than 40 years with 65 restaurants across several countries including Mexico, the United States and various islands in both the East and West Caribbean. We have provided a service linked to the tourism industry of many destinations for many years. We do not operate individually from the Grupo-Anderson’s Corporation and have strict corporate security and operational policies and procedures that I diligently enforce. We follow all rules and regulations enforced by the Aruban government which has continually worked to make this island extremely safe through the Aruban police department, and organizations such as the Aruban Hospitality and Safety Foundation (Visibility Team).

We will continue to support the local police officials in their search for Miss Holloway, as well as the government in their efforts to have the safest island in the Caribbean. The unfortunate circumstances of the past week have given us all a greater focus to be in constant awareness of our surroundings. We at Carlos ‘n Charlie’s as well as the rest of the country hope to have a happy ending to this sad week. The Holloway family is in our thoughts and prayers.

We want to thank-you for all the comments posted on our website; but we also want to make it clear that Carlos ‘n Charlie’s is not responsible for any of the comments that have been posted on this site, or any other website relating to this past weeks events. These ongoing bantering of comments can lead to more confusion in an already uncertain and unfortunate situation. Thank You for your understanding.

I am going to do a post regarding the 3 people of interest and link to another blogger who we have been dealing with that has done an interesting story. The US MSM is as cynical as it gets and they look at every conspiracy angle. That’s why I tend not to believe some of the rumors I hear.

Donna, I have not heard that.

Donna on
June 8th, 2005 2:09 pm

Cee Cee, thank you for that article, and as an ALABAMA american, I do NOT fault your resturant, nor the island of Aruba, we just want Natalee to return home safe!

Please cease the same comment that you have made over and over. ENOUGH.

Move on with something else. Don’t be a troll.

RedLight on
June 8th, 2005 2:13 pm

Cee Cee
Thank you for the letter. We understand.
Wish something would break soon.
This waiting is the worst.

Donna on
June 8th, 2005 2:13 pm

Red? other than them holding the two suspects, did we learn anything different from the ruling? I must go see my daughter at a Cheerleading event now, but, please believe, Natalee is most thought of here at our home, as well as her friends and family.

---- on
June 8th, 2005 2:15 pm

JACOB
-An 18yr old is legally an adult.
-Anybody can wear what ever they want
-The shirts that are made for women these days dont require a bra, or a bra cant be worn with them…welcome to the 20th century…better than loin cloths
-Chaperones dont have to follow every students every move
-She’s 18 I’m sure her parents dont pick out her clothes. So what even if they did…there was nothing wrong with her outfit.
-I have seen women in Aruba wearing thongs to the beach and much much less at night…
-Aruba is still 70-80+ in the evenings….what exactly should she have worn??

In case you aren’t aware must girls have engaged in oral sex but 9th grade.

Weve come a long way baby.

It’s a new day and age.

Haven’t you ever heard of “GIRLS GONE WILD”.

Get out from under your keyboard sometime.

Donna on
June 8th, 2005 2:19 pm

we have been through this with this jerk alread, he is so with himself on her attire, kinda spooky, maybe he knows something, NOT

freya on
June 8th, 2005 2:19 pm

jacob, if you were walking into a bar at 1a.m. and were attacked by three men, would everyone ask what you were wearing? Your remarks are at the very least harsh and unfeeling, and at the most sexist. Enough already

My heart felt concern and prayers go out to Natalee and her family. As a american that has traveled to Aruba before i would like to thank all Arubans for there hospitality while my wife and I travled there. It seeks to me that some people on this site are loosing site of what is going on so far. Does anybody know for sure that there was any sort of crime committed?

aruba101 on
June 8th, 2005 2:33 pm

I live on the island this is a truly peaceful island and we are all shocked by this!why do you think this is such big news?thsi has never happened tous!we are trully hopeeful that she will be found alive and are doign all possible on the island…can you imanige any city or your hometown in the US giving a day off to ALL government employees to go on a search? HOw many times does this happen in the US and nothign is even done about it maybe a 3 day search? I livedin MIami and this was a very common thing but they even have allowed FBI agent sto come into the coutnry and help, showing how truly sad we feel about this incident and are praying everyday for her safe return!People who have bben to aruba can tell you the sam ehtign about our peaceful ness but that doesnt mean were crimeless! no where in the world is but our crime rate sounds almost impossible becuase its so low…I moved here because I want a safer life for my children a more open life were its ok for them to go to the movies and not have me around for safety. And I must say I also go out to the clubs here and if you see the things that the american tourist do here you would never believe it!The go WAYOUT we even had an incedent at one bar that a group of over 20 american tyourists went barenaked in a club and we understand their on vacation and their having fun…but thier are limits. So lets understand that you can be the valedictorian of your class but on vacation EVERYONE is a different person, lets just pray she is found alive and well that is whats important here nothignelse

freya on
June 8th, 2005 2:34 pm

Thank-you John from Nh, for being the voice of reason.
Prayers for Natalee

marie from maine on
June 8th, 2005 2:38 pm

I have been reading this- on and off for a day now. This missing girl breaks my heart. I have been coming to that island for over 20 years with my family, i was married there in April and I LOVE Aruba and its people! You all have been very informative and i thank you- I ahve to say that I am annoyerd with these three men that are NOT SUSPECTS- i just dont understand why they are free when they in my opinion are larger suspects then those in custody-grr smells like a coverup to me…ANYWAY, I still love aruba, but im so sad and sickened that this is going on..
BTW- This jacob character is a total “butt”

I would agree with you. Arubans are nice, can’t condemn all for what a couple may have done. If you haven’t noticed I’m not talking to him, its our site, warning to shape up or …

Jacob on
June 8th, 2005 2:41 pm

Have her parents commented yet on whether they allowed Natalee to enter bars when she was on vacation ?

I don’t know what parents would let their 18 year old daughter enter a bar, especially at those late hours of the night wearing such revealing clothing as a low-cut blouse and miniskirt. Her parents should have been more responsible.

marie from maine on
June 8th, 2005 2:44 pm

In the US if 3 men admitted having sex with an intoxicated woman, they wouldnt be out free, maybe they are hoping that they will lead the police to something unintentionally? Am i missing something here?

Thanks Tom. I do have to say that it concerns me a little that there hasn’t been more info about the three persons of interest? To me if there car was the last known place for her to spend time I would think it would have been impounded immeadiately So that some forensic test could have been made? I also believe that we don’t have all of the information yet. Maybe there is a connection between all 5?

Is it true that one of the three is the son of a judge? Hmm! I know that raises some suspicion in my mind. Anyone else? Also it seems to me that unless she is alive and in hiding that she can’t be onthe Island of Aruba anymore. With all of the people looking for her it doesn’t make sense! She is either in the water or gone to another country somehow without a passport?

A Current Affair is identifying, Joran Van der Sloot, the son of a dutch judge, as one of the individuals with whom Natalee Holloway is reported to have left Carlos And Charlies at approximately 1 AM on Sunday night.

Everyone please be respectful, her dress and her going to the bar are not at all uncommon.

Are you familiar with the Amy Bradley story (The missing girls from the cruise ship while docked in Aruba)? I read the article on it, actually several and saw an interview yesterday on MSNBC with her parents. WOW.

Makes one wonder. If you get a chance see it. Will see if I can find video.

Jacob on
June 8th, 2005 2:57 pm

Joran Van der Sloot, the son of a Dutch judge, is one of the three men who allegedly left Carlos N’ Charlies’ Nightclub in Aruba with Natalee in a silver car the night of her disappearance.

He was one of the last people to see her, and heavily questioned by police….

marie from maine on
June 8th, 2005 2:57 pm

they have to all 5 be involved- but truthfully i still cant stomach the fact that her freinds let her in a car w/ 3 men- friends just dont do that, you look out for eachother- where was her help? that is so wrong, even bouncers there… shouldnt SOMEONE have thought that it looked a little “funny” that place is WILD- my 16 year old cousin wand her friends were approached by creepy men there last month and their friends literally PUSHED the man off of her (yes i did say 16….)

Jacob on
June 8th, 2005 3:00 pm

a BOSTON woman is now saying how she had a similar incident in Aruba at that restaurant back in 2003

A common thread links the Holloway case to a pair of Massachusetts women who say they were sexually assaulted on the island after leaving the popular nightclub called Carlos and Charlie’s.

The North Shore woman, who does not want to be identified, said that she came forward with her story as a warning to others. She said that two years ago in Aruba, she befriended a hotel worker, who she says turned against her.

RAS on
June 8th, 2005 3:03 pm

In her friends defense,

I completely agree, obviously, that they should not have let her go, however the three guys had been hanging out with many of the students for several days and according to some of those who were there, were not suspicious acting. It is also hard to say whether anyone saw her get in the car or not. They could have just seen the car drive off with her in it.

I have spent much time in the Caribbean, and money talks, just like everywhere, but moreso.
What we have here is a bad case of someone with connections committing crimes against someone else with connections.
Natalee’s connections attempt to hide her past, her promiscuities, and her role, if any, in the situation, and bring considerably more manpower to the table than if, say, Jake Nobody from Wasatch, WI had the same thing happen to him.
The connections of the assailants (3 of them) attempt to hide the facts, the culture, and the seedy underside of being a ‘friendly neighbor’ of Venezuela and Colombia.
Right now the corrupt money is winning.
Maybe it would be different if it were on ‘our turf’.
The girl is no saint, but the facts are well hidden, and probably far, far away from the scene of the crime by now.
Maybe the facts are trolling a hotel bar on another island…

John on
June 8th, 2005 3:05 pm

Come on people, grow up! Let’s pray for Nathalee!

marie from maine on
June 8th, 2005 3:08 pm

that is a good point RAS,
it just seems like someone SOMEONE should have thought that this was weird, i mean skinny little boys or not… 3 men, 1 woman- Such a shame, i cant believe they dont have video cameras at a place like carlos & charlies…you would think that they would…

Very, very “stinky” is my ever-lovin’ shadow who WISHES he could be me!!

MOMfromMO on
June 8th, 2005 3:08 pm

To John from NH:
I agree with you…where in the heck are the charges for the ’3 boys’???
My gut feeling is the one kid who has (is it a lawyer?) a father of high status may be ‘pulling some strings’, though hard to say without ANY information.

I think Nathalee wasn’t happy home, and she know want to experience the world on her own. Deeply inside me I know she’s alive. Let we all pray for her!

Hubert Gomat on
June 8th, 2005 3:11 pm

MEOW

marie from maine on
June 8th, 2005 3:12 pm

kourt- Yes it is pretty here COLD in the winter though!
my question/point is…How can those 3 men be “uninvolved” nice people if they did what they did… i mean a 4some isnt normal up and up behavior…ya know?

Jacob on
June 8th, 2005 3:12 pm

Amy Bradley – still missing

Nathalee – still missing

2 women in Boston who were also assaulted at this restaurant by the name of Carlos and Charlie’s.

The list of young women missing down upon those islands is sure getting longer as more media attention focuses on those islands.

RAS on
June 8th, 2005 3:12 pm

Natalee was not a saint but she was hardly promiscuous. I swear on my life that she was not “loose” or as someone said “a cheap date”. In fact I feel very certain that at many other schools anywhere in the United States she would have been considered exemplary and very reputable, even more so then she already is. Look up the Mountain Brook school system, it is definitely not an average public school.

Iara on
June 8th, 2005 3:13 pm

In reference to clothing, contrary to popular belief most islanders and Latin Americans do not dress in skimpy clothing (unless they are prostitutes or of the lower class). Their clothes are much more modest than what Americans wear. And on certain islands the local residents are even offended by American and European dress.

Getting back to the topic no one is to blame in this case except Karma. There are many speculations but no one knows for sure what happened to her but we all hope that she is alive.

I hope that this is just another case of the “runaway bride” and this girl will be found alive.

However one thing bothers me is that in the American news reporters keep referring to her as the “beautiful straight A Alabama teen.” It is as if the media wants to portray her as innocent and “all American” and “all American girls do not disappear unless under the influence of something or someone. What this really means is that her family has money and power. The only people you really see in the media are the ones who Americans consider “beautiful” and whose families have enough money, power, and savvy to involve the media and different political officials.

JUNIT-IA on
June 8th, 2005 3:14 pm

I believe if you put enough media attention on any place you can find out a lot that no one ever heard about Jacob.

marie from maine on
June 8th, 2005 3:15 pm

maybe what the fbi called “disturbing” is this connection that they have made…you are right about the list of missings..

RedLight on
June 8th, 2005 3:15 pm

It was not a 4sum…..They took turns……i.e. 1 on 1

John on
June 8th, 2005 3:16 pm

Iara, good done! Maybe we should ask ourselves, if her parents, stepdad and stepmom are doing this to cash out some insurance money……..

ChingLee on
June 8th, 2005 3:17 pm

If she is “ran away bride”….she waste many time and energy

MOMfromMO on
June 8th, 2005 3:17 pm

Iara,
Thank you for your post, but I have to remind everyone to remember: It doesn’t matter your age, sex, religion, race, creed, dress code or financial status; we all have equal rights as human beings. Regardless of how the Media portrays Natalee, how her family describes her, or how her friends know her…Natalee deserves life. Please respect it.

Thanx!

Iara on
June 8th, 2005 3:17 pm

John that is not what I was thinking…….I hope that one’s parents would not be so cruel.

JUNIT-IA on
June 8th, 2005 3:17 pm

Red Light, How in God’s name do you know that it was 1 on 1 or if they even had sex?

marie from maine on
June 8th, 2005 3:19 pm

US media is pathetic and ridiculous – I AGREE!
They are acting like this is more tragic because she is a pretty straight a student- it is tragic regardless of who she is… i mean her step father made the comment about the crack house so maybe they are thinking that drugs are related?

John on
June 8th, 2005 3:19 pm

Mabe Red Light was there…..

ChingLee on
June 8th, 2005 3:19 pm

3 boy…1 drunk girl…..I say do math….what you think..do

RAS on
June 8th, 2005 3:20 pm

I can also almost certainly assure you as well that if they engaged in sexual activities on the beach, it would not be consensual, without some type of date rape drug or something involved. Iara, although she is not perfect like the news so often portrays people, she is certainly not very different and probably has higher moral standards than the average American 18 year old girl. Remember Alabama is in the bible belt and while in many schools everyone has casual sex all the time according to shows like Oprah and Dr. Phil, that is NOT the case at her school.

MOMfromMO on
June 8th, 2005 3:20 pm

1 post…1 ChingLee…I say get grammar…that’s what I think.

JUNIT-IA on
June 8th, 2005 3:21 pm

I will do the math and say that three guys would not have time to drive to a beach, each have sex with her at once or one at a time and then get her to her hotel in 30 MINUTES!!! that is what my math is telling me is wrong.

marie from maine on
June 8th, 2005 3:21 pm

oh ok- REDLIGHT, you think that 3 friends taking turns w/ a drunk girl is any better?
whatever!thats lovely- well i think it is terrible and they should be locked up as well!

marie, is there proof that sexual behavior occurred between Natalee and the 3 guys? Or, were they just giving her a ride to her hotel?

ChingLee on
June 8th, 2005 3:22 pm

true…Population Alabamma low..that why cuzins marry..have childs

Jacob on
June 8th, 2005 3:23 pm

Have her roommates (girls she shared the hotel room with) spoken to the media yet ?? Also, were her hotel roomatters the same girls that accompanied her to the restaurant Carlos and Charlie’s the night she disappeared ?

MOMfromMO on
June 8th, 2005 3:23 pm

JUNIT-IA,
You hit the nail right on the head…That’s the EXACT thing I’ve brought up! Very, very fishy indeed!

marie from maine on
June 8th, 2005 3:23 pm

i totally agree with junit- ia

mark on
June 8th, 2005 3:23 pm

I don’t agree with some on this site out of disrespect for Natalee. What has happened is terrible and I hope that no harm has come to her. However, in hopes of keeping one of you girls safe from things like this, I have to say that I agree with those who question what she was wearing, especially in a foreign country.

True, a girl should be able to wear whatever she wants. That is her priviledge and she should be able to express herself through her clothes however she wants. However, the sad truth is there are alot of evil guys out there that have a hard time controlling themselves when they see an attractive teenager in scant clothing.

I am no spring chick, but a 49 year old man and I have seen alot in my 49 years. Believe me, although it is your right to wear such clothing, it is not a wise thing to do unless you are in an environment that you know is safe

I say this because I love teenagers and don’t want to see you get hurt by perverts, pregnant by worked up boyfriends, or AIDS from things getting out of hand.

You may have come “along way baby” and proud to announce that many of you have had oral sex by the 9th grade, but I hope you step back, see how degrading that really is, love yourself enough to value your body and to treat yourself with respect.

Wow Iara, I will agree with you. I also want to say that it doesn’t ake away from th situation. This is very real. I know that there are proabable a lot more Natalee’s out there who’s stories have never been told! The thing is that this is real and people are getting involved because it has been in the media. Maybe what will come of this is that some of these other stories will be herd? I also agree that the american media is very frustrating!!!!!

Jill, it’s good to see you. Enjoyed your advice to the loquacious and articulate Mr. Lee. Have you read his latest “Alabamma” post?!!

RedLight on
June 8th, 2005 3:26 pm

I’m just trying to discuss this in a civil manner. I realize we are all frustrated due to the slow progress. My point was I don’t think they attacked her all at once. I think it may have been a teenage thing that got out of hand. Of course none of us know what really happened at this point.

Fact is no one, except those who were with Natalee, knows what happen. Many pieces of this puzzle is missing. It is not even definite that she has been raped or murdered. We only know that she is missing.

RAS, when tourists leave their home country, sometimes they feel that the same rules do not apply while they are vacationing. I have seen it especially with young Americans.

I hope for her family and Aruba’s sake that she is found alive and well soon. There is no use pointing the blame or engaging in speculations of what may have happened. Thinking negatively about what may have happened to her will only bring about negative energy to the young woman.

It saddens me that some of you are so sure she has been raped and murdered. It is almost as if you want it to be true to prove yourselves right.

Stop blaming and engaging in speculations and send some positive energy to this young woman, her family, and the wonderful people of Aruba who are helping to locate her.

Duck from Dallas on
June 8th, 2005 3:32 pm

marie from maine,

Please define what is normal for a 18 yr old teen on vacation raised in this world….. If you were to say it were not moral I might agree with you but from what I have seen lately kids today have few taboos when it comes to sexuality. This being said, I agree that the 3 boys admitting to having relations with her close in time to her disappearance seems much more fertile ground for investigation than a couple of security guards one of which claims to have an alibi (being with his wife). This story is getting more and more interesting.

Just Wondering on
June 8th, 2005 3:32 pm

The picture of Joran van der Sloot (one of the 3 persons of interest— Dutch judge-to-be’s son) holding a leash around that other guy’s neck does make him look a little odd.

Although Fox website has an earlier broadcast of an interview of an American woman who says that Mickey John harrassed her a couple of weeks ago when she was staying at the HI in Aruba.

Mickey was in a hotel uniform when she was jogging by. He asked why she was wearing sun glasses…….and followed up with ………”I thought maybe you were high on pot and would want to buy some”.

The next day as she went past, he had his breakfast with him.
He said “Why didn’t you bring me breakfast today.” ” You can bring it to me tomorrow ………. in bed”.

Jacob on
June 8th, 2005 3:33 pm

The State Department needs to warn all Americans not to travel to Aruba until it is clear what this Carlos and Charlie’s restaurant is all about. With the 2 women from Boston now saying they were assaulted there 2 years ago by hotel workers, this seems to be a scheme now of hotel workers, to either get women drunk/drugged at that restaurant and then assault them. Even the son of the judge seems to be in on the action also.

If you want to throw your graduating child a party, rent a pony and order some pizzas and have it in your backyard, don’t send your kid down to Aruba where they can easily get wrapped up in the drug trade or assaulted by hotel workers at these shady nightspots which has been going on for years.

RAS on
June 8th, 2005 3:34 pm

No Red Neck I never said that, however did you look at the link. It’s Bama by the way dumbass, maybe you should learn how to spell.

marie from maine on
June 8th, 2005 3:35 pm

john
i read that info this moring- in an aruban online news thing… geez i ahve read so much this moring… im obsessing i just find this so sad and so AVIODABLE- this shouldnt have happened,
im sorry and agree with mrs red… but i am also sorry for her friends have to learn this kind of lesson regarding ‘looking out for eachother ESPECIALLY drinking” anyway- what a shame . i truely hope that she is ok,,,but it is a wake up call to parents of teenagers everywhere… OPEN THOSE EYES!

Red Neck on
June 8th, 2005 3:35 pm

Kortnie,
You don’t sound too fond of the male gender.
Come on down south some time and let me fry you up some cat fish and tators.
Once we get all gressy we can roll around some.

Sounds like reporters really want info on the three boys during this press conference but she will not give up any information…….. She just says she can’t comment….. So prob. wont find anything interesting in todays conference

MOMfromMO on
June 8th, 2005 3:35 pm

Thanx JUNIT-IA, for the link! I’m listening now!

John on
June 8th, 2005 3:37 pm

Jacob, you can’t talk so negative of Aruba, Maybe we need to stop and think what Nathalee was thinking, if she wanted to run away her family….If it so, Nathalee please come out, you are making a bad impression of Aruba

mark on
June 8th, 2005 3:37 pm

Me again. Gotta question.

Did anyone in here know Natalee? If so, could there be any truth to her leaving with those guys knowing they were going to do a “foursome”? I just was curious because if she is, indeed, proper and not promiscuous, that would mean these guys raped her. The chances of her getting gang raped then let out of a car in front of a hotel to be grabbed by someone else are close to zero. I mean even I am not that unlucky. What are the chances that both things happened in one night.

For that reason, I still think those three guys hold the key. If she was indeed wild, then rape wouldn’t be necessary and their story is easier to believe.

I don’t mean to get into personal lives but as a former Chicago detective that I am, this case baffles me.

MOMfromMO on
June 8th, 2005 3:39 pm

To Redneck:
Leave Kortnie alone!

You have been warned.

RAS on
June 8th, 2005 3:39 pm

I knew her and although she is not perfect and certainly was not someone who just sat home on weekends there is no chance she agreed with the three to go have sex on the beach. That being sad if she was somehow drugged it could be possible.

She is acting like the three aren’t even an option in the investigation???

Ms. Trina on
June 8th, 2005 3:40 pm

At 2:30 pm central time every day, I want every one to take a MOMENT OF SILENCE for Natalee. Lets do this every day until shes found. Please check your time zone so that we will all do it at the same moment. Any one willing to do this please respond by saying ok. Also please help me get the word out about this. Thank you!

This has got to be a different “Jacob” – a much better, new and enormously improved Jacob, intellectually speaking. Even the writing style is different.

Mama always on
June 8th, 2005 3:40 pm

Life is like a box of chocolates…..you never know what your going to get.

John on
June 8th, 2005 3:41 pm

Maybe they should see if the son of the judge was helping her to disappear. I heared that she disappeared once of Costa Rica or Sint Maarten…..

marie from maine on
June 8th, 2005 3:41 pm

duck- i am “chatting” dont take me so literal… I didnt mean normal in a good or bad way… i just think the behavior merits more suspiscion thats all- didnt mena to ruffle any feathrs.. The kid looks like a little punk to me- a punk thats daddy gets him out of trouble all the time- we ahve those kids everywhere they are dangerous

JUNIT-IA on
June 8th, 2005 3:41 pm

In response to MArk and the question about knowing her to see if she would be ok with a four-some……… I am a 22 year old college student and have known some pretty we’ll say permiscuis women, and even the worse of those I doubt would agree to that drunk or sober.

Becky on
June 8th, 2005 3:41 pm

No, actually I’m new here. I’ve been reading this for the last 2 days.

MOMfromMO on
June 8th, 2005 3:42 pm

We’re all special, Becky. I just happen to know that the words chosen by Redneck were very insensitive, as I am familiar with Kortnie.

She just admitted that the three were the last to see Natalee alive it doesn’t seem like they are even questioning them??????

RAS on
June 8th, 2005 3:42 pm

Ha are you comparing me to Jacob. I hope not considering my earlier posts about him. I would like to think of myself as being more sensitive, open, and compassionate than Jacob or at least his earlier posts.

Hey Becky, no, I’m not “in charge” here. However, Jill and I are friends and dumbass “Red Neck” just sexually harassed me. So, she came to my defense. You have a problem with that?

If only Natalee’s friends had been so observant and caring…

Jairo on
June 8th, 2005 3:45 pm

I’m currently living in Florida but I’m originally from the island of Aruba. I really don’t like the news coverage in the US. It doesn’t matter though, I understand reporters are pressured to bring updates on the case. But the truth is there’s not much concrete info on this case. My suspicions start with the 3 guys, but what do I know. I have never met them. I only know that they’re 3 guys, one originally from the Netherlands who’s father is a local judge and the other 2 guys are from Surinam. All these 3 guys are currently attending the International School of Aruba which is a school predominantly visited by sons and daughters of wealthy residents many of them who are from the US working in the refinery. Again I have no clue what happened, but I do have big questions. We have not heard the past background of Natalee Holloway. We need to know more of these 3 guys. And I truly believe the 2 suspects have nothing to do with the case because friends were with them Sunday to Monday morning of the Soul Beach Concert. Therefore, I keep praying and hope that she is still alive.

In fact, if “Red NecK” sexually harasses me again, I will ask the monitors to ban him.

Jerk.

WOIMB on
June 8th, 2005 3:47 pm

RAS-Are you from Mountain Brook? (I am, so I’m wondering.)
For the millionth and one time: Natalee has no “promiscuous” past. I can assure you of that. She has certainly never run away. And she would NEVER have sex with those three guys consensually.
As to what she was wearing, that is not a tight shirt, showed no cleavage, was not open, and the skirt is not too short. That is a perfectly appropriate thing to wear in Alabama in the summer. Even my mom agrees-and she’s pretty much a Puritan when she buys me clothes. I’m not allowed to wear anything slutty.
It’s Aruba. What is she SUPPOSED to wear?

MOMfromMO on
June 8th, 2005 3:47 pm

Becky,
You asked, I answered.

marie from maine on
June 8th, 2005 3:48 pm

amen kourtnie!

Becky on
June 8th, 2005 3:48 pm

I just think you have a rotten attitude towards men, that’s all. What? It’s okay for you talk crap to them but they can’t speak their minds???

Cindy on
June 8th, 2005 3:48 pm

She has every right to hate man.

She has been mistreated by them all her life.

I would love to make her feel special and pretty.

hugs and kisses Kortnie

Donna on
June 8th, 2005 3:48 pm

Any new “FACTS” on Natalee?

RAS on
June 8th, 2005 3:49 pm

Ha yeah I am from Mountain Brook, I couldn’t help posting after seeing some of what people have said. Do you have aim WOIMB.

RAS – my comment to you was wholly separate from the one about Jacob.
The two have nothing to do with each other. Sorry you misunderstood.

You’re FAB!!!

Donna on
June 8th, 2005 3:50 pm

From South Alabama here RAS, prayers are with all of you there, have family in Homewood and Hueytown.

Becky on
June 8th, 2005 3:50 pm

So? I’ve also been mistreated by them! But not all men are bad!

Duck from Dallas on
June 8th, 2005 3:51 pm

Jairo,

I think one of the boys father is just in line for a position as a judge but not actually a judge yet. I too have heard the two men being held have alibis.

WOIMB on
June 8th, 2005 3:52 pm

I do. It’s mmsmylyy. IM me there.

Ms. Trina on
June 8th, 2005 3:52 pm

At 2:30 pm central time every day, I want every one to take a MOMENT OF SILENCE for Natalee. Lets do this every day until shes found. Please check your time zone so that we will all do it at the same moment. Any one willing to do this please respond by saying ok. Also please help me get the word out about this. Thank you!

John on
June 8th, 2005 3:52 pm

Alibis can be lying! That’s the difference between US Laws and Dutch Laws!

You can tell school’s out. Wish there were age limits on this forum…in addition to IQ.

Oh well…proud to be American

Donna on
June 8th, 2005 3:57 pm

still no new, news!

Ching Lee on
June 8th, 2005 3:58 pm

OK!

Just Wondering on
June 8th, 2005 3:58 pm

Here is a link to an interview with the parents of Amy Bradley who has been missing since she was on a cruise in the Aruba/Curacao area (1998). A waiter wanted to take her to Carlos’s the night before she disappeared according to her parents.

WOIMB and other Americans her outfit is still not something a respectable young lady would wear in Aruba or on any of the Island or Latin America. It does send a certain message because only promiscuous women and primarily American tourist (which according to most non-Americans is synonymous with promiscuous). A respectable young woman would wear something more modest and even if she were to wear a mini-skirt, she would have a modest top and vice versa.

But clothes aside, no one should be attacked because of what they wear and if someone wants to hurt you they do not care what you are wearing. However, fact is there are certain things you do to prevent people from harming you. One is not acting like a “typical American tourist” or going to shady bars.

I am concerned that the chaperones allowed these underage seniors go out to drink in a foreign country. That is what I mean when I say that some tourists do not think the rules apply to them once they leave their home country.

And what about her friends. Have they been interviewed? Why on earth would they allow their friend leave with strangers. Even now, my friends and I have a rule that the people you arrive with are the people you go home with–no exceptions.

I hope that she is still alive and partying on her own free will in Venezuela. That is a much better picture than murder……

2 girls, missing in Aruba, still doesn’t make Aruba a bad place, look at the missing people in America.

Becky on
June 8th, 2005 4:01 pm

Or what? You’ll have me banned? I really don’t give a S***!

Donna on
June 8th, 2005 4:01 pm

oh good grief, back on the attire issue again!

T Leary on
June 8th, 2005 4:01 pm

As a gentlel reminder
This forum is about Natalee.
Let’s focus on her and not someone (you know who you are)who shall go un-named so as to not fuel the fire.

MOMfromMO on
June 8th, 2005 4:02 pm

Natalee is not in Venezula. Her passport was left in her motel room. What Natalee was wearing when last seen was completely appropriate, and I am a very (somewhat) strict mother of a 23 yr old and a 20 yr old.

It is obviously a matter of opinion of whether or not Natalee dressed properly or not…But it matters not, when it comes down to here whereabouts or safety. Please don’t dilute the important issue at hand, with petty comments on her clothing.

Good grief!

Jacob on
June 8th, 2005 4:02 pm

” Just Wondering “, you are so correct, out of the 4 women now who have had unfortunate incidents happen to them, all of them say the problems stemmed from the Carlos N Charlie’s restaurant. That restaurant seems to be a hangout for druggies and for hotel workers trying to pick up women.

The State Department needs to ban all travel to Aruba until that restaurant is shut down and the people who frequent it are all behind bars.

Donna on
June 8th, 2005 4:04 pm

do you people ever stop to think of what a swimsuit is made of, it is decorative underware, and to make this point on her attire is so stupid, she is on a tourist island, being from south alabama, and a mother of a 13 year old teen, I just cant understand where this dress attire is of any issue…………….

The parents and chaperones, because of trips in the past, considered Aruba a safe and enclosed environment. Remember to the seniors were legally allowed to drink in Aruba and they and their parents were told before the trip that they were expected to make good choices. Maybe the culture is very different there but here her clothing is not considered promiscuous at all for the beach. I completely agree, obviously, that they should not have let her go, however the three guys had been hanging out with many of the students for several days and according to some of those who were there, were not suspicious acting. It is also hard to say whether anyone saw her get in the car or not. They could have just seen the car drive off with her in it.

John on
June 8th, 2005 4:05 pm

MOMfromMO: In Aruba there isn’t any motel, we have only Five stars hotel!

JUNIT-IA on
June 8th, 2005 4:05 pm

go to the Carlos N Charlies website, they have a long statement about all this.

Tim, if someone harasses me on the thread, I’m not going to ignore it. Get rid of the harassers.

Thanks again for your astute comments, Jill.

Iara on
June 8th, 2005 4:07 pm

I was just commenting on the cultural differences of what is considered proper attire. Most islanders are appalled and shocked by what Americans wear when visiting the islands. Just wanted to put the cultural difference out there, as American standard for modesty is not the world’s standard.

And Venezuela is not that far and it is easy to catch a boat from Aruba to Venezuela.

Unlike most of you, I think it is better to think she is alive than raped and murdered.

No one knows for sure what has happened………

John on
June 8th, 2005 4:08 pm

Who are you thinking you Americans are to come and close a restaurant in Aruba? I think if America was better than the 9/11 desaster wouldn’t happen!

RAS on
June 8th, 2005 4:08 pm

Honestly if the men in South America are that uncontrollable when girls where mini skirts and such maybe they should learn some restraint. I’m not saying that’s the case but that seems to be what many of you who are complaining about clothing are saying.

RAS on
June 8th, 2005 4:09 pm

By the way Iara wasn’t really including you in the category in my previous post. It was mostly others earlier.

american inaruba on
June 8th, 2005 4:10 pm

OK that is pretty dumb to tell youthe truth….not to let anyone come back to the isalnd because if you see that a bar has a bad reputation you donnt go their…one place can not ruin it fo r a whole country! I cant even begin to mentino all the places back in downtown miami I was even afraid to walk infront of in broad daylight….being from miami and all….nowin aruba i am at peace with my kids! If that is the way it is then no one should EVER go to cancun or Jamaica becuase the stroies you get fromt hoseislands are truly much worst…i believe she is still alive! dont brign negative energy! pray for her safety!

They MAKE you party??? No doubt they do…it’s a rape bar, disguised as a restaurant. I understand even the Holiday Inn (where Natalee stayed) posts Carlos & Charlies Restaurant in their Dining Guide….now there’s some good, safe suggestions for their patrons…

also about the amy bradley..she disappeared while the boat was out on seaNOT docked in Aruba

marie from maine on
June 8th, 2005 4:11 pm

JOHN!!! Shame on you that 9-11 comment was out of line-
you should be ashamed of yourself! Fine hate americans but you love out money pouring into your p[ockets… you are not a nice person you cant even FATHOM what 9-11 was like for us & people we lost
jerk!

Compananzi on
June 8th, 2005 4:11 pm

To me it does not matter what she wore, or how late she stays out. What worries me is that 25 yr average Arubians are fishing for easy targets. I also hear older ugly men are doing the same thing. To me that does not sound very Arubian as Arubians lament and condescent on American behaviour.

The fact that Joran van der Sloot is a son of a influential Dutch Minister is highly suspect. The immediate discount of their involvement is suspect. Have you notice no searches are being done at their residences, no name of the 3 are being mentioned? ‘cept Jorans? How practically they are Arubians but quickly referred as Surinamians or Dutch…no no no..something is not quiet open and honest, and actually it starts to stink.

Also, if these were one night lovers, why did none of the guys walk her to the lobby, is that not the proper way to do it, or drive in the drop her off in front of the door. If I was a criminal mind I d say Dad must have assisted on disposal and smoothing of such a criminal investigation. In order to dispose the body I d say the criminal would to have premedidation, this whole thing is too clean and planned.

MOMfromMO on
June 8th, 2005 4:12 pm

To John:
Thank you for correcting me on the 5-star hotels…

Which REALLY makes me wonder….druggies for security guards at a 5-star HOTEL? Not in the U.S., baby.

Donna on
June 8th, 2005 4:12 pm

To American in Aruba, I so agree, stop the crappin on Aruba, this is not about Aruba, it is about Natalee being missing!

marie from maine on
June 8th, 2005 4:13 pm

we stay at coata lindas and my 16 year old cousin & friend were approached by security guard on the beach w/ a note saying to meet him at 11 pm on the beach-
not high standards these employers…. somehting has to change!

RAS on
June 8th, 2005 4:13 pm

Please MOMfromMO don’t blame all of Aruba or even the bar. There are much worse places in America and maybe the reason things have surrounded the bar is because it is a hot spot. Please don’t make us Americans look quite so bad. It’s not the bars fault someone took advantage of her potentially.

JUNIT-IA on
June 8th, 2005 4:13 pm

I don’t agree that Carlos N Charlies is a rape bar….. Last year I went to Jamaica for Spring Break and Cancun the previous two before that…… Tourist popular bars like that need flare and do so with “drinking games” and different shows to get the crowd into it.

I think alot of us are getting off track and just looking for something to blame, because we are so eager to find out the ending to this

John on
June 8th, 2005 4:15 pm

Marie from Maine: Get a life! Money, let me tell you something, the ransom in this case came for the most part of the Aruban Government, and Monday the government gave all the employees half day off to go and help in the search. What do you think, Arubians are helping too, with their own money!

Jacob on
June 8th, 2005 4:16 pm

I would never even think of going to Aruba now knowing how much crime stems from just one restaurant. That Carlos and Charlies restaurant is a front for the criminal element, I wonder if the druggies and rapists are giving money kickbacks to the owner of that restaurant for allowing them to hang out there all the time, since that is where the 4 women who came upon bad circumstances all had connections to.

They need to take that owner of Carlos and Charlies and make him an accessory to the homicide charges already placed upon one of the 2 colored men, and also file some charges against those 3 white men.

Just Wondering on
June 8th, 2005 4:16 pm

So much anger at Americans by the Aruban posters.
It makes me wonder what they think after they shake our hand, smile, and turn away.
Is it all a facade?

Donna on
June 8th, 2005 4:16 pm

I agree Junit, pointing a finger at someone or something, just remember when you point a finger there are 3 ppointing back at you!

marie from maine on
June 8th, 2005 4:16 pm

not off track- i just cant believe people are letting johns comment about americans deserving 9-11 … you are a piece of work buddy

MOMfromMO on
June 8th, 2005 4:17 pm

I’m basing my opinion, RAS…on facts. I only shared the link to the website & quoted exactly what is posted there. It is also confirmed that the guards were into drugs.

If Aruba can’t handle it…something should have been done by them….

RAS on
June 8th, 2005 4:18 pm

To John

America is plenty better off than other countries and just b/c many countries are jealous does not mean we deserved 9/11. That was a borderline sadistic comment and I believe you just showed something about yourself. The United States is not perfect but neither is any other country. The fact is as well if the United States did not exist the world would be a much more dangerous place.

This is really all out of context however so let’s try (me included) to keep this on topic.

the CnC concept is owned by the same group as Senor Frogs. Last year in the Bahamas my wife and went to Senor Frogs and I had 2 drinks and stumbled out of the restaurant. Now I am 6’4 and weigh 240 pounds, not 5’3 and 100 soaking wet. I had not been that drunk since college, and did not know what hit me. We had been at Club Med for the previous week and had no problems drinking all night.

The point I am making is that I can see how inhibitions can be lost and severe drunkenness occurs at this chain. They actively promote it, and make drinks that are surprisingly strong.

Donna on
June 8th, 2005 4:20 pm

On a brighter note, for those that think as I do, “no news is good news” I am holding on to hope! To the Arubians, I would hop a boat to your island anytime ( I don’t fly). To the family, friends and supporters of Natalee, thoughts and prayers are with you during this trying time. For the SPECULATORS of false hope, get into the real world, America is my no means a PERFECT country!

MOMfromMO on
June 8th, 2005 4:20 pm

Tom & Red:
Please ban MY.

He’s not worthy of your forum

marie from maine on
June 8th, 2005 4:21 pm

john- you need to get the life! you say somethng so hateful to americans liek the 9-11 comment then think that looki g for a missing woman all day makes up for it? My first trip to aruba was in 1982, it was a genuine, happy place, the people were lovely and not so jaded and self rightous as you are! growth has taken so much charm from your island, and this is making the sweet even more bitter, who EVER helped look for her and for whatever agenda, pah- leeze!
if you hate americans so much- just keep it to yourself ! my friend had to plunge to his death on 9-11 ..creep

mark on
June 8th, 2005 4:22 pm

Kortnie:

I now this is about Natalee but will answer your question nonetheless concerning what we should do with “evil men”. Personally, I would give them a choice to stay in prison until they are 70 years old or be castrated. Unfortunately, I have no say in the matter and the courts are turning them loose as fast as the policemen can arrest them.

The time of the press briefings has been changed to 3 o’ clock. To everyone who were looking forward to tune in at the today’s press briefing, sorry you missed it.
Still nothing of the whereabouts of Ms. Halloway.

For the two suspects in custody the judge thought the evidence was enough to detain them for another eight days, and in these eight days the prosecuters will bring together a proper “charge” against them.
They were also appointed separate lawyers because their statements made to the investigators were considered contradictory.

They are still in search of Natalee Holloway though due to the fact that she has been missing for nine days they can’t rule out crime.

The spokesperson for the local law enforcements, Edwin Commenencia has stated that the search in the local waters has come to an end, and nothing that could lead them to Natalee Holloway has come up. In other words nothing particular was found.

The deadline for the American media is at 6 o’clock, I suppose at this time you’ll be hearing more of what was in the press briefing today.
This is all I could get.

the evidence is really piling up on the criminal scum that r un Carlos n Charlies

Iara on
June 8th, 2005 4:24 pm

Why is this forum turning into Americans against Arabians? Shouldn’t this be about hope that Natalee is still alive. Put your personal hatreds and biases aside and think about what has happened to this young woman.

marie from maine on
June 8th, 2005 4:25 pm

I cant even believe this MY person just said that
it is people like him that make thinkgs like this happen
sick bastard, sorry women have made you so angry, but you arent worthy of my time!

Jairo on
June 8th, 2005 4:25 pm

Thanks Donna! As an Arubian I appreciate it, let me rest assure everyone that this case will be solved, we have always lived in peace and when time comes to address the real concerns of a country it will be done. We keep the faith she’s still alive.

RAS on
June 8th, 2005 4:26 pm

MY, you need to go see your psychologist today and take your medicine.

RAS, you are right about “restraint.” Due to the enormous suffering of females around the globe, it ought to be LEGISLATED.

And most probably, Natalee would still be with us. My God, WHERE did “they” (whomever of the men involved), PUT HER?

Donna on
June 8th, 2005 4:26 pm

Golly, someone hates bars!

RAS on
June 8th, 2005 4:29 pm

Please stop blaming the bar. All it is trying to do is make money and be enjoyable. Like I said the fact that both dissapearances had to do with it is probably just b/c it is a popular tourist spot. I seriously doubt there is some conspiracy involving the bar.

SUSAN on
June 8th, 2005 4:30 pm

Dear people in this forum, Let’s pray for Nathalee! That’s the only reason there is a forum. Not to point fingers, everything comes back ta you! We (american and arubians) should unite all our hopes to find Nathalee back. It’s about a human being life. Let all pray!

MOMfromMO on
June 8th, 2005 4:30 pm

Donna:
The crime didn’t happen at Walmart. That’s why the ‘bar’ is being scrutinized.

Trying to get rid of MY . Deleting his/her posts as quickly as I can, Got a favor to beg of everyone, At the bottom of tha page are advertisements, could you click on one every once in a while. I am losing money the last couple of days moderating this mess as opposed to working. i work for myself so there is the rub. This may keep my wife from wondering why we need to eat Mac and Cheese for dinner next week.

Thanks

Also , this thread is growing very fast so I may move us over in about an hour or so.

RAS on
June 8th, 2005 4:31 pm

Kortnie, although I somewhat agree with you. I do not hate men considering I am one. How could it possibly put in legislation? I’ll also say that please remember all boys/men are not the same.

Donna on
June 8th, 2005 4:31 pm

Crimes do happen at wally world, though!

Jacob on
June 8th, 2005 4:32 pm

the odds of all these unfortunate incidents happening at just one restaurant are about the same odds as winning the lottery.

4 people being assaulted, all at one restaurant location ???? each story involving hotel workers ??? that is beyond a coincidence, these are planned attacks and the management surely knows about who is responsible

MOMfromMO on
June 8th, 2005 4:32 pm

SUSAN,
I agree with you. My thoughts and prayers are with Natalee constantly. I think people sometimes let the passion for certain things get the best of them.

Why even bash the men to begin with, there is no evidence that these men are guilty of wrong doing, all speculation!

american inaruba on
June 8th, 2005 4:35 pm

Teh abr is being blamed for all this but you must remember the island only has about 5 “cool” clubs and they are all next to each other! CnC is next to bahia which are both accross the street from Mambo Jambo and tantra and behind that is karma …so much choices you dont have…teh otehr palces are much more “sit down” style and so teh tourist have this schedule:
1.CnC (they begin early with drinking&Dancing games ont heir stage with prizes…close at 2am
2. Go to Bahia for some dancing
3.Go to Mambo jambo for more latin dancing
4.Go to tantra for calming down and some dancing
lol so you can see why CnC is popular because it is the only one that begins so early…all theother ones are restaurants that turn into nightclubs at about 11pm

Just Wondering on
June 8th, 2005 4:35 pm

American in Aruba:
I think if you read that article posted from MSNBC you will see that is not exactly what Amy Bradley’s parents say happened. There was a creepy waiter who seemed to be targeting her.

As you see more and more personal testimony from other tourists who have had a problem it appears Aruba is not quite as secure a place as they like to think.
I am afraid Natalee is just a culmination of a lot of bad practices.
Until Arubans recognize this and clean up their act, the will hit hard times, I am afraid.
Amy’s site has a comment about how tourism is suffering already.

June 08

Flight Cancellations

“In a letter the president of Aruba, Nel Oduber, ATA (Aruba Tourism Authority) stated that there has been many flight cancellations already. “The situation is certainly preoccupying.”

This was the kind of situation the Arubian community was dreading.
Though we already knew it would come to this, we hadn’t expected it until some time later.
Anyone who thought that this wouldn’t the put Aruba in the negative light were wrong, we are seeing flight cancellations already ”

Let’s remember, Mickey John and Abraham Jones are being held on suspicion of MURDER. The Aruban authorities seem to have abandoned their other 2 theories.
I know we would like Natalee to all show up safe, happy and unharmed.
I think those most in the know, the Aruban Justice system, know it will not end that way.

America had a lot of problems with security that led to 9/11 and took/are taking actions to correct them. As long as Arubans continue to hid their head in the sand, no progress will be made.

The time of the press briefings has been changed to 3 o’ clock. To everyone who were looking forward to tune in at the today’s press briefing, sorry you missed it.
Still nothing of the whereabouts of Ms. Halloway.

For the two suspects in custody the judge thought the evidence was enough to detain them for another eight days, and in these eight days the prosecuters will bring together a proper “charge” against them.
They were also appointed separate lawyers because their statements made to the investigators were considered contradictory.

They are still in search of Natalee Holloway though due to the fact that she has been missing for nine days they can’t rule out crime.

The spokesperson for the local law enforcements, Edwin Commenencia has stated that the search in the local waters has come to an end, and nothing that could lead them to Natalee Holloway has come up. In other words nothing particular was found.

The deadline for the American media is at 6 o’clock, I suppose at this time you’ll be hearing more of what was in the press briefing today.
This is all I could get.

MOMfromMO on
June 8th, 2005 4:37 pm

Amy,
Thank you for the update!

Donna on
June 8th, 2005 4:38 pm

The original artical said Amy was approached on the boat, and refused to go with them or to meet them.

I was waiting for the bar issue to come up. RAS & John, bars do have a responsibility to customers and what they send out of their bar that may harm someone else or themselves. Obviously, so do the people drinking. There is a big difference between Hotel drinks and in town.

This email and comment was sent to me the other night and appears on another post at SM. I guess its a good time to post it here for all to see. This comes from an Aruban woman, not a tourist.

As a local from Aruba i am also very concerned about this situation. My prayers are with Natalee and her family and loved ones. I hope so much they’ll find her back alive, but of course everybody by now fears the worst. If they don’t find her alive or dead, they’ll have no case. The three boys are not off the hook, nor are the two security employees. In tonights local newsedition. Chris Lejuez said that most probably the 2 guards will not be formally charged with anything. For starters, the police arrested them unlawfully. Other technical mistakes have been concerning the arrest. Too many loose ends.
Yesterday I read some one was upset about Aruba being put in such negative light, cuz Aruba is, in his view, a safe and clean place. Hey , I’m glad! Carlos n Charlie is the worst place to go. Of course they wait for the girls that are spending their “last night in Aruba”- night. This date raping or gang raping is going on for a long time now. The local victims don’t even go to police, cuz they’re too embarassed about the situation. And NOBODY is going to believe there was no consent. Because you WERE drinking, you were dancing on the tables. And what happens here is soo tragic. The boys wait right outside on you, in this dark back alley location, to push you in their car for one more last stop.
Tourist will always come and go. But please girls, don’t mix and don’t do anything what here what you wouldn’t do at home.
You cannot even trust yourself, so WHY trust another?? Be it in Aruba or elsewhere…

Kortnie I am palying the total neutral all day today and yesterday but I feel your comments are borderline overboard. Out of the entire population of the world in statistics sense I am sure that what you are saying is not correct

RAS on
June 8th, 2005 4:41 pm

Kortnie, I can understand that. I just think some women lose track of the fact that it is not really a lot. Percentage wise it is not. If you have been harmed by some man I am sorry and obviously have not had that happen so cannot truly understand your situation.

Donna on
June 8th, 2005 4:44 pm

Red, you lived in aruba, correct?

Jacob on
June 8th, 2005 4:46 pm

I just don’t feel comfortable with any Americans visiting that island until the Carlos n Charlies crime joint is shut down.

Amy Bradley – ate there the night before disappearing

Natalee – ate there the night she disappeared

2 women from Boston – ate there 5 minutes before being assaulted by a hotel worker also eating at Carlos n Charlies

Time to shut down that Carlos n Charlies dump, put their management in jail for multiple counts of murder and rape, and send a message to all the little dumps on the islands that profit off of crime and drugs.

Sorry to burst your bubbles, Junit-ia and RAS, but the numbers are huge.

There are also huge numbers of UNREPORTED cases (as Aruban Leila just told us in her post above) due to the stigma that the dominant gender has placed on sexual assault.

Junit-ia, you are welcome to feel any way you want. But, statistics tell another story (factoring in the large number of unreported assaults).

Ms. Trina on
June 8th, 2005 4:48 pm

At 2:30 pm central time every day, I want every one to take a MOMENT OF SILENCE for Natalee. Lets do this every day until shes found. Please check your time zone so that we will all do it at the same moment. Any one willing to do this please respond by saying ok. Also please help me get the word out about this. Thank you!

Donna on
June 8th, 2005 4:48 pm

Natalee nor Amy has been comfirmed, raped or dead, come on people!

american inaruba on
June 8th, 2005 4:48 pm

Well then I desperately urge all those that were assaulted or anythign like that to REPORT wahtever ahppened…..if you DONT speak up their is no way for us to fix a problem we dont know is thier!

G on
June 8th, 2005 4:48 pm

A rape bar? Do these really exist? Don’t you think you are exagerating just a little? No screening at all in Aruba, right? Poking fun aren’t we? It sounds like you don’t know that most of the hotels in Aruba (including the one who doesn’t screen their security guards) are owned and operated by US corporations. Funny isn’t it?

Oh, yes Aruba is extremely unsafe, don’t go there!! Crime is rampant, rape is the order of the day, Carlos & Charlies is the devil in diguise! Let me see……2 violent crimes (assuming that Natalee’s case is a crime) against tourists in.. let’s see… about 20 years or so (considering that Aruba didn’t become a tourist destination until about the mid 80′s). Aruba hosts about 750 thousand tourists a year, this number was less in the earlier yaers, let’s just assume a conservative avg of 200 thousand a year for 20 years, that brings the violent crime rate up to a whopping 0.0001%! Please everyone , run for cover! Jacob is right, far too dangerous…..

Kortnie did I do ok on my spelling? I took some speed courses to appease you!

Thread: Why the three young men weren’t detained
mwood16 posted the following with a link to it’s A.M. Digital news origin:
In the Holloway case The why of not detaining the three young men
The fact that the three young men that were seen
leaving the nightclub with Natalee Holloway
were not detained and their photos not published
is strongly questioned in the community.
The explanation that we have obtained indicates
that there is nothing concrete against the trio.
They were never detained but only questioned as
witnesses. The three explained that they left the
nightclub with Natalee and dropped her off at the
Holiday Inn, but not at the main lobby entrance.
Considering that something might have gone
wrong when the trio was behind the lighthouse
with the girl, police decided to do a search in that
area without any result. There are no reasons to
detain the three young men.
In separate interrogations the three were
asked if there was anybody that could have seen
them when they dropped of the girl. All three,
separately, mentioned to have seen the security
guards of the hotel speaking to the young lady
when they were leaving. The description of the
guard uniforms does not match with the guards
of the Holiday Inn.
The security tapes of the hotel indeed show
the two guards, of the Allegro Resort, walking in
front of the hotels. Based on this a search was
made at the Allegro Resort that is closed for
renovation. The two guards were thus the last to
see Natalee.

Jacob on
June 8th, 2005 4:50 pm

Kortnie brings up a very important fact, which renders crime stats almost worthless.

The 2 women from Boston assaulted outside of Carlos n Charlies after eating there did not report the 2003 incident until just days ago to the media, when they heard about this girl Natalee also running into problems after eating there.

In the coming days, I expect more women to come forward and start telling their personal stories of rape and assault stemming from this crime joint Carlos n Charlies. The dirty secrets being hidden in Aruba are slowly being revealed, the tourism industry down there may as well close their doors and board up the windows, the people are on to their criminal element and their closed lips about what is happening.

Donna on
June 8th, 2005 4:51 pm

Not sure red, I was going to ask you if you ever went there and your overall opinion.

RAS on
June 8th, 2005 4:51 pm

I haven’t looked into too much, but I just think some of those statistics are misleading. Regardless though this is off topic and doesn’t really matter at this time. I’m agreeing to disagree on this topic at this time.

This is a comment from an Aruban not a tourist. This is how she feels about the place. This is not Aruba bashing. It has not been the first time some one has not made the same comment or emailed me one similar.

I am proud to be an american. I do hae a question though. What is all of this hostility towards the arubans for? As far as I can see from NH they have done more to help find Natalee there than americans would have if she were missing here! People don’t loose focus

Donna on
June 8th, 2005 4:53 pm

Donna on
June 8th, 2005 4:55 pm

i agree john

RAS on
June 8th, 2005 4:55 pm

I agree with you John, it does seem like that at least.

Gabriel Leo on
June 8th, 2005 4:56 pm

Kortnie Says:

June 8th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
I believe lovely “Gabriel Leo” is back as “Quart Knee!” BUSTED!!!

You are SOOOO transparent…

Kortnie you high?…you smoking something?
I don’t hide behind another nickname I use My real name. You have a real problem missy. You still using the Rape theory accusation? I’m here now missy. I know you missed me.

Donna on
June 8th, 2005 4:57 pm

i think my keyboard and this chat have issues, lol, im use to yahoo messenger, my two previous replies was stating that I bite my tongue to jacobs ongoing speculations

american inaruba on
June 8th, 2005 4:57 pm

I am a proud american no way you can take that awayform me…but in some weird way i feel sort of embarassed with all the Aruba bashing taking place…I dont see where its comign from??!! or why! we dont even know what happened yet! I eman look at this..the father is a political figure…the US rep. has said that the family “knows this is not a wandering off issue…” so the family knows somethign we dont….waht is that?? Maybe they were threatened before??who knows>?! and if it is like that maybe they let their daughter come on this trip thinkinh no one would know who she is anyways! i mean so many thigns could have happened…i had a family member jsut fly to California to a freind he met on the internet! left just like that for a week we went crazy! has natalee had any contact through the internet with anyone here>> thier are so many posibilities! we dont knwo whats going on maybe the family knows more than we do!

JUNIT-IA on
June 8th, 2005 4:57 pm

Hey Gabe….. Lets stay on the subject

Duck from Dallas on
June 8th, 2005 4:58 pm

Compananzi,
Hate to tell you but 25 yr old men are out fishing for easy targets everywhere whether they are “Arubian” or not. Not sure what you meant by the older ugly men comment either. Do the ugly men not have the right to meet women? LOL Kinda shallow don’t ya think?

Jacob on
June 8th, 2005 4:59 pm

I want drug tests performed on all these “hotel workers” who are really nothing but men just doing any odd job as long as it gives them an opportunity to prey on young women, that seems to be running rampant in Aruba.

This Carlos N Charlie crime joint seems to be the central location where the hotel workers are enacting Step 2.

Step 1 seems to be the hotel workers meeting the girls and women at the hotel, but the hotel workers can’t attack them on the hotel property, since they will be the main suspects. So the hotel workers need a third-party location to go to where they can prey on the women, that brings us to Step 2.

Step 2. Hotel workers are hanging out at Carlos n Charlies, and the drinks being served are far TOO strong, as verified by Jack, a man that is 240 pounds and said the drinks made him stumble on his feet, imagine what it does to a 110 pound girl.

and then Step 3 is luring the girls and women out of the bar, in 2003 the boston women said they were assaulted right in a parking lot near the Carlos n Charlies restaurant, this Step 3 can seem to happen anywhere, but is the culmination of the preying and planning that these criminal hotel workers put so much effort into.

Just Wondering on
June 8th, 2005 5:01 pm

Jairo,
The only story I know about Amy Bradley is the one her parents told.
I posted it twice.
The Natalee Holloway story is the cover story on every major news website in the US.
In case you do not know MSNBC is a huge site co-owned by Microsoft and the National Broadcasting Network.
Amy Bradley’s parents to not have a high opinion of C&C.

How far is Curacao. I understand that local people regularly travel between the countries by boat, and it is just a 10 minute commuter plane ride.
Curacao is not on the other side of the world from Aruba.

Donna on
June 8th, 2005 5:01 pm

american, i asked earily about an artical i read, that stated natalee was believed to have an internet connection there, true or not, i dunno, but i did read that………

american inaruba on
June 8th, 2005 5:02 pm

Curacao is a 30min plane ride to aruba…a boat ride takes about 6 hours and is not recommended becuase you are going againstthe waves!

Jacob on
June 8th, 2005 5:04 pm

The only solution seems to be locking the doors on this Carlos n Charlie place, and throw the management in jail and hit them with serious charges of being accessories in multiple counts of murder and rape.

Also, the State Department needs to warn all citizens to travel only to Aruba if extreme caution is used, and to avoid all eating and drinking establishments, to just order room service from the hotel or something, not to venture out to Aruban bars at night, since so many older hotel employees are preying on young girls, drugging them and serving them drinks which are too strong, and then later raping them, and now it seems they have moved onto even killing the young girls.

I don’t think there should be any hostility toward Arubans. I don’t think pointing out some questionable spots is a personal attack against Arubans or Aruba.

I can say personally I appreciate those that have helped and are concerned for the situation. I would not really say that Americans would not have helped, look at all the people who went and took time off looking for the “runaway bride?.

Iara on
June 8th, 2005 5:05 pm

[quote]I am proud to be an american. I do hae a question though. What is all of this hostility towards the arubans for? As far as I can see from NH they have done more to help find Natalee there than americans would have if she were missing here! People don’t loose focus[/quote]
I agree with you except Americans *would* have looked for her in the US because her family has enough power, money, and an “all American” look to entice people to join the search.

I do not see the sense in speculating what happened to her when you do not know exactly what happened.

Isn’t the purpose of this thread is to keep hope alive that Natalee is doing well and not Aruba bashing…….

I must ask you to stop referring to drugs concerning me and don’t call me missy, you little creep.

Anything else and you’re ban fodder.

Hey Jacob, thanks for your comment concerning the enormous number of unreported cases as “to make crime stats almost worthless.” Not quite “worthless,” but I understand and see your point, of course.

AmericanTourist on
June 8th, 2005 5:06 pm

I have been to Aruba twice and I was just like Natalee and her pals. I had a blast the first time 10 years ago, but the second time 2 years ago, we decided things had changed. There were many more shady characters and the women were not nice to us. I finally asked a Venezuelan man why things had changed. He said the native Arubian people love Americans and the money they bring. He told me that many more Venezuelans were visiting and they typically feel American’s are shallow, greedy, blow money like crazy, and think they are better than everyone else. I explained that we blow lots of money because we are on vacation but it is not like that all the time. I was dancing with him, learning to salsa, and I noticed some ethnic women watching us and snickering. He told me that the women take great pride in Salsa danicing and felt that non – salsa dancing American women, were considered to be less of a woman. We were subjected to numerous snide comments and did not feel safe. If Natalee has come to harm I can see why. The hotels need to have better nightlife for the Americans and inform us that downtown is not safe for our young adults and that they should stay at the resorts. It is too bad but Americans may be thought well of by the Arubians but it is not that way with others. Aruba will suffer from this – Aruba was the party island and now all Americans are going to think twice before going there. It is so sad – the Arubians are so nice, they do not deserve this.

Jairo on
June 8th, 2005 5:10 pm

Just Wondering, Curacao is east of Aruba, many wealthy tourist take a $150 half hour flight for one day. I was last there in 2000 I don’t remeber them having a C&C there.

JUNIT-IA on
June 8th, 2005 5:10 pm

HELLO! It is us who choose to visit that particluar destination….. They do not have to “accomodate” to us…… We are going in on there land…. They choose to accomodate us, which is great….. So your not gonna have a 100% approval of you being there, but you should not say they need to suffer for this…… Its not a countries fault for the actions of a few

american inaruba on
June 8th, 2005 5:11 pm

CnC has been here since 98 and curacao is about $200 now for a ticket…nto a true tourist place though Im very scared to go their their crime ratei s like 5 deaths per day! its incredible

Agreed, AmericanTourist. “All” Arubans DO NOT deserve this backlash against Aruba. But, they DO need to blame the perps who did away with Natalee for that, not the Americans.

Donna on
June 8th, 2005 5:13 pm

americantourist, that could be all so true, but, name a place in america that is not just the same, there is so much evil in this country, i am american, and proud, but as an adult and a partent of two teens evil is everywhere, not just aruba, I think many are thinking about things now as this situation has arised, but, to damn the aruba island is just not necessary. regardless to what the facts are in this situation, criminal or accidential,(or runaway, lets hope that is the case) the fact is natalee is missing.

Iara on
June 8th, 2005 5:14 pm

AmericanTourist: why do you refer to the women you met in Aruba as “ethnic women” aren’t you in their country? I think then you would be the “ethnic woman.” And in reality it has nothing to do with a not being a good salsa dancer but the preference some male islanders and other Latins have for American women due to their perceived promiscuous and the myth that non-islanders are better.

In the words of John from NH … and more to the point in the words of Red …

There is an 18 year old girl who is missing, who’s parents, family and friends could be reading this very site (actually there are). How would any one of you feel if you were in their shoes and saw some of the things that have been posted?

Your comments and opinions are appreciated, keep the personal stuff to yourself, keep on topic and remember that Natalee should be your sister, daughter, cousin, etc. Pray for her and her family. Thank those that are concerned for her safety.

No place is perfect. Aruba not withstanding. Will there be changes that come from this, most probably.

Just remember Natalee and focus. Thank you.

Duck from Dallas on
June 8th, 2005 5:15 pm

Jacob have you fallen off the deep end?

Imagine an american bar that refused entrance to americans…. Carlos and Charlies are not at fault because locals go in there establishment.

There is no evidence anyone was murdered or raped either. But if that were the criterion then we might as well shut down the US tourist industry here considering we live in the country with the most homicides.

I know your upset as we all are over the missing girl but Carlos n Charlies is a chain restraunt and bar located in Cancun and Cosumel as well as others I am sure. They do a good business and cater to the tourists. It is hardly a haven to abduct “innocent american women”.

Just Wondering on
June 8th, 2005 5:15 pm

Iara,
I see mostly hostility toward Americans from the Aruban posters.
Take a look at past posts from Mona, Susan, Gabriel Leo, John, others.
They want to blame Natalee and say it is the promiscous Americans who are the problem. Or she ran away and is causing Aruba to spend too much money on her.
As Mona from Aruba put it…..:”she has to DEAL with Americans every day” in her job.
And what about the comments from others who said America deserved 9/11.

I had no thoughts about Aruba one way or the other until I starting reading these posts. The America bashing is pretty blatant.
Personally I think Arubans need to realize they just stepped into the 21st century and take security seriously.

G on
June 8th, 2005 5:15 pm

Red. This might not be outright Aruba bashing but when some people focus only on a couple of isolated negative incidents, it creates a negative picture. People who never visited Aruba and know nothing about the place certainly will get the wrong idea about Aruba when reading all these comments.
The best thing that can happen here is that Natalee is found having the time of her life drugging it up somewhere. It doesn’t sound good, I know, but the alternatives all seem much worse, don’t they?

american inaruba on
June 8th, 2005 5:15 pm

No one here is blaming the americans…actually were not blaming ANYONE jsut the suspects! this has nothign to do with ANY country beign USA or Aruba…thsi has to do with some sickminded person beign a rapist…killer…or a run-a-way plan NO ONE KNOWS ANYTHING! we cant bash on somethign we dont knwo happened! were goign off on somethign that doesn exist!

I don’t think Aruba will or should suffer for this situation. What do we know has happened? A young woman is missing and they have two guys in custody that say they have never seen her. She might have run away for all we know. Hopefully nothing has happened to her. Saying that Aruba will suffer because of this is as ridiculos as Jacob saying to close CNC. It’s like wiping befors you crap!

marie from maine on
June 8th, 2005 5:19 pm

our scuba captain said NEVER get in a boat to Curacao- the Venezualans will take your money, jewelery and throw you overboard… He wasnt kiding, he is an aruban native and doesnt love the way the island is being inhabited by angry south americans either, he to longs for the old days, so this is an issue that aruba has to deal with, maybe simplify that beautiful island again… after all people dont flock there for a drink at a bar, they have been visiting for years for the beauty and nature and such nice people, i still ahve a lot of hope that a kind local will find her, disoriented and wandering- i really really hope so … aruba is a place of fond memories not THIS ugly stuff…

“The point I am making is that I can see how inhibitions can be lost and severe drunkenness occurs at this chain. They actively promote it, and make drinks that are surprisingly strong.”

Surprisingly strong…. or DRUGGED!

Just Wondering on
June 8th, 2005 5:20 pm

It is just that the authorities on the scene are using the word Murder as the reason they are holding Mickey and Abraham. I think they may know what they are dealing with.

Jairo on
June 8th, 2005 5:21 pm

Exactly, I’m an Arubian living in the U.S. and even though it’s not the safest place to live I appreciate the kind people helping me through my struggles of living and studying abroad. Please, let’s keep it to the point. Natalee is missing, we should all pray and hope she’s still alive.

Donna on
June 8th, 2005 5:22 pm

Im gonna visit there just to prove a point that I have no anger toward them, things happen, and there are no answers to this happening yet. I don’t live on hearsay, I believe in facts!

Jacob on
June 8th, 2005 5:22 pm

John from NH, if it was your daughter who was raped, killed, and then had her body dumped after she ate at CnC Restaurant, and then you found out that 2 Boston girls were assaulted after eating at CnC, and that Amy Bradley also ate at CnC Restaurant, you would also be demanding that CnC Restaurant be shut down.

CnC either has the worst luck of any restaurant in the world, or else the management and the criminal element are working together, serving the drinks too strong (verified by Jack) and preying on young women.

Time to classify CnC as a dangerous place that leads to the decay of society, and shut it down, that is what we do with massage parlors that are front for prostitution rings and drug houses, it is time to do that with the CnC Restaurant. Put locks on the doors, wooden boards on the windows, throw the management in jail, seize their assets, and clean that dump up.

Mona on
June 8th, 2005 5:23 pm

Thanks John, you got it….All of us are trying our best and pray for a safe return of Natalee

A voice of reason, Just Wondering, is right: The authorities are using the word “murder.”

Jacob on
June 8th, 2005 5:27 pm

John from NH, if it was your daughter who was raped, killed, and then had her body dumped after she ate at CnC Restaurant, and then you found out that 2 Boston girls were assaulted after eating at CnC, and that Amy Bradley also ate at CnC Restaurant, you would also be demanding that CnC Restaurant be shut down.

CnC either has the worst luck of any restaurant in the world, or else the management and the criminal element are working together, serving the drinks too strong (verified by Jack) and preying on young women.

Time to classify CnC as a dangerous place that leads to the decay of society, and shut it down, that is what we do with massage parlors that are front for prostitution rings and drug houses, it is time to do that with the CnC Restaurant. Put locks on the doors, wooden boards on the windows, throw the management in jail, seize their assets, and clean that dump up.

I think the point is until there is some form of evidence that she has been raped or murdered why are people assuming she has been? I will keep on praying for her and her family.

digger on
June 8th, 2005 5:28 pm

In response to the 3 suspects: None of this wouldn’t have happened in the first place if Natalee wasn’t taken or manipulated into leaving. Rape may have been a factor, but if all 3 suspects were able to have the same response of her whereabouts while being interrogated, the only thing that comes to mind is the political kid with that has likes mystery’s and such would have the ability to know before hand that every story would have to be the same in case something went wrong. The direct 2 suspects may have a connection with the two, but the 3 made sure there was a plan in case something went wrong. I’m sure Natalee wouldn’t have left with Abraham, but a greater chance with the kid. There is more that i could conclude, but then again; it’s all speculation. The main concern i have with the 3 suspects is to have them locked up to see how things work out over a period of 116 days.