THIS is why warriors continue sucking for the majority of Cata and MoP. Because threads on PvP feedback turn into people jumping down each other's throats instead of constructive feedback.

Anyways just wanted to pipe in to say that rets and rogues have gotten buffed while warriors are now prone to pally turn evil fear and berserker rage is unable to break the fear.

Meanwhile mages are able to spam ice lances for 250k+ without blowing cds due to pve trinket procs. Warlocks spam fel flames for 90k+. Elemental burst is greater than ever. Ret burst is worse than the aforementioned mage burst. Enhance, feral and balance can all outsurvive warrior burst without popping a single cd while being able to burst me down through all of my defensives 100-0 in less than 10 seconds. Dks can now hard counter us better than ever before with no cost ibf. Killing spree still broken, mut is able to kill me in the opener though I'll admit it's slightly counterable at least and rogues aren't defensively invincible against warriors unlike ever other class.

5.4 is absolutely fucked because there's no way Blizzard is going to bring ALL of these numbers down in time as we've seen from the past. I'd go so far as to say that with all the changes to other classes and despite the removal of shield requirements, we'll be just as bad as we were in 4.3 come next season; just calling it right now.

Last edited by Flaks; 2013-07-10 at 01:34 AM.

Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang

"I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"

THIS is why warriors continue sucking for the majority of Cata and MoP. Because threads on PvP feedback turn into people jumping down each other's throats instead of constructive feedback.

Anyways just wanted to pipe in to say that rets and rogues have gotten buffed while warriors are now prone to pally turn evil fear and berserker rage is unable to break the fear.

Meanwhile mages are able to spam ice lances for 250k+ without blowing cds due to pve trinket procs. Warlocks spam fel flames for 90k+. Elemental burst is greater than ever. Ret burst is worse than the aforementioned mage burst. Enhance, feral and balance can all outsurvive warrior burst without popping a single cd while being able to burst me down through all of my defensives 100-0 in less than 10 seconds. Dks can now hard counter us better than ever before with no cost ibf. Killing spree still broken, mut is able to kill me in the opener though I'll admit it's slightly counterable at least and rogues aren't defensively invincible against warriors unlike ever other class.

5.4 is absolutely fucked because there's no way Blizzard is going to bring ALL of these numbers down in time as we've seen from the past. I'd go so far as to say that with all the changes to other classes and despite the removal of shield requirements, we'll be just as bad as we were in 4.3 come next season; just calling it right now.

You seem mad. Don´t be mad. Just wait for the patch to hit the servers. We will see then how it is.

Originally Posted by magnuzze

considering that TG warriors was here since Vanilla, and DK's got into the World of warcraft in WoTLK... you can say that they have been stealing 2-handed from us.

Originally Posted by Darkfriend

There is a reason you don't just pull numbers out of your ass and throw them on the forums. People will show you wrong. Ass numbers are useless.

Originally Posted by Wrien

I can't believe warriors wine about their defensive capabilities. DK's and warrs are even on heals.

THIS is why warriors continue sucking for the majority of Cata and MoP. Because threads on PvP feedback turn into people jumping down each other's throats instead of constructive feedback.

While i can agree with the general argumentation behind that jumping the boat with figures pull out of nowhere isn't that helpful either. Those numbers seem really off to me, likely pulled out of a fancy pvp video with flask/potion/berserker buff/etc or even some world pvp.

Please don't forget that they can finally simply increase the general player vs player damage reduction with the change of a simple figure, going from 65% to 70 or even 75% resilience isn't totally out of question when they also increase ilvl for pvp gear to 522 in the coming season.

I hope that the pvp trinket setbonus stop that pve trinket madness, but given how strong those stack-trinkets are (especially with the doubled duration + halfed stat bonus in pvp which is funny because the made that change to weaken them in the first place ~) i'm not to sure about that just yet.

THIS is why warriors continue sucking for the majority of Cata and MoP. Because threads on PvP feedback turn into people jumping down each other's throats instead of constructive feedback.

Anyways just wanted to pipe in to say that rets and rogues have gotten buffed while warriors are now prone to pally turn evil fear and berserker rage is unable to break the fear.

Meanwhile mages are able to spam ice lances for 250k+ without blowing cds due to pve trinket procs. Warlocks spam fel flames for 90k+. Elemental burst is greater than ever. Ret burst is worse than the aforementioned mage burst. Enhance, feral and balance can all outsurvive warrior burst without popping a single cd while being able to burst me down through all of my defensives 100-0 in less than 10 seconds. Dks can now hard counter us better than ever before with no cost ibf. Killing spree still broken, mut is able to kill me in the opener though I'll admit it's slightly counterable at least and rogues aren't defensively invincible against warriors unlike ever other class.

5.4 is absolutely fucked because there's no way Blizzard is going to bring ALL of these numbers down in time as we've seen from the past. I'd go so far as to say that with all the changes to other classes and despite the removal of shield requirements, we'll be just as bad as we were in 4.3 come next season; just calling it right now.

your 100% right-way to many people on here trying to shit talk one another.i have been saying the new changes to arms are not buffs,just QOF changes.the cleave on slam in only 2 yards,lmfao.with no damage buffs to MS nd OP arms will keep on sucking.blizz does not want arms to be good,if they did they would buff it.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Valech

You seem mad. Don´t be mad. Just wait for the patch to hit the servers. We will see then how it is.

thats the problem- you keep on paying to play when your class/spec sucks.blizz does not care as long as you keep paying.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by klausistklaus

While i can agree with the general argumentation behind that jumping the boat with figures pull out of nowhere isn't that helpful either. Those numbers seem really off to me, likely pulled out of a fancy pvp video with flask/potion/berserker buff/etc or even some world pvp.

Please don't forget that they can finally simply increase the general player vs player damage reduction with the change of a simple figure, going from 65% to 70 or even 75% resilience isn't totally out of question when they also increase ilvl for pvp gear to 522 in the coming season.

I hope that the pvp trinket setbonus stop that pve trinket madness, but given how strong those stack-trinkets are (especially with the doubled duration + halfed stat bonus in pvp which is funny because the made that change to weaken them in the first place ~) i'm not to sure about that just yet.

if they "buff" res even more then everyone and every class would receive it,not just arms.thats means arms would be doing even less damage in pvp then it already does now.

Right. The reasons Blizzard nerfs and buffs classes is in direct correlation to the amount of whining that people do. </sarcasm>
If you seriously believe that, you're deluded.

It's very clearly been shown to be true over almost the past decade now. Rogues and warlocks have by far the smallest communities (least played classes) yet they have a massive forum following that gives A LOT of feedback. While rogues were certainly over nerfed at the beginning of the expansion they and warlocks have both been riding competitive PvE specs if not contending for the number 1 spot for a LONG time while also being exceptionally strong in PvP.

Similarly, pallies are the most played class in the game. Thus ret has gotten A LOT of attention on the forums. Thus it has seen massive and sweeping changes for 3 expansions running ALL changes ensuring that they stayed rank 1 viable. And yet, despite this, players of the class continue to complain and the SPEC continues to get arguably unneeded buffs and changes.

Contrast with shaman who, while having at least a medium sized community has been rather quiet for the vast majority of the game's history on the forums. Thus, the classes' two dps specs have for the most part been under par in both aspects of the game. NOW, after a very VERY long time players of the specs have come to the forums in droves and you can very clearly see the results it has netted them.

Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang

"I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"

I've always had my conspiraciy theories around it but went with Brakhirs thinking, it simply cant be that silly.
But after the reverts of warlock nerfs due to the massive amount of whining, ye...thats exactly what buffs a class, collective whining and warriors as a class lack just that.

1. Someone starts a thread complaining of PvP/PVE weakness
2. Warrior A and B agrees.
3. Warrior C decides to stroke his ego and proclaims that warriors are fine. Posts his epeens. Accuses warrior A and B of qq/whining.
4. Rogue A comes in together with Warlock B and stirs sh**
5. Warrior A and Warrior C starts epeen war
6. Warrior D decides that he needs his ego stroked as well and joins the fray
7. A few days later Warrior C, posts saying that "the problem with warrior classs is lack of collective whining"
8. Buffs come.. Warrior C & D celebrates.

Not going to lie the shield change is somewhat cool after I've played it on the ptr. It's awesome seeing your character whip out a shield while doing two handed weapon damage. Makes you feel like some sort of Spartan.

Glyph of the Weaponmaster (NYI) - Your Shout abilities cause the appearance of your weapon to change to that of a random weapon from your inventory for 0 sec.

This seems interesting, if it keeps to 1h/2h restrictions would you simply be able to have only sulfuras / thunderfury as other 2h/1h in your inventory and it'd pick those everytime? Could be used as a substitute for legendary transmo if that were the case.

1. Someone starts a thread complaining of PvP/PVE weakness
2. Warrior A and B agrees.
3. Warrior C decides to stroke his ego and proclaims that warriors are fine. Posts his epeens. Accuses warrior A and B of qq/whining.
4. Rogue A comes in together with Warlock B and stirs sh**
5. Warrior A and Warrior C starts epeen war
6. Warrior D decides that he needs his ego stroked as well and joins the fray
7. A few days later Warrior C, posts saying that "the problem with warrior classs is lack of collective whining"
8. Buffs come.. Warrior C & D celebrates.

The commonality of all of this is that there is a lot of complaining an no suggesting. We, as a warrior community, are awesome at crying and not giving specifics and possible remedies. We are a lot like little kids in the doctor's office. But, there seems to be some quality of life changes incoming. With the trinkets looking how they are and how crit scaled as well as our other secondary stats, we are looking to be a very strong melee next tier (fury PVE). I do hate it for our arms brotheren both PVE and PVP, as they are in one of their worst states I have seen in a VERY long time. Hopefully the QOL changes will help at least on the PVP front.

I think the Bladestorm CD reduction is really interesting, it might take preference on a lot of fights over dragon roar depending on adds. But I see with our 2/4 set bonus Dragon Roar still will be better to use

That's right; it currently de-syncs Reck and Skull Banner *and* only affects 5 abilities for us (though obviously affecting talent choices is pretty sweet). Also, the ICD appears to have been reduced from 1:45 to 45s.

The crit/haste/mastery "amplification" trinket still has a 1:45 ICD. The interesting find though, is that the Crit stacking trinket appears to have a roughly 25s ICD (or it has been moved to a rppm with an absurd modifier).

That's right; it currently de-syncs Reck and Skull Banner *and* only affects 5 abilities for us (though obviously affecting talent choices is pretty sweet). Also, the ICD appears to have been reduced from 1:45 to 45s.

The crit/haste/mastery "amplification" trinket still has a 1:45 ICD. The interesting find though, is that the Crit stacking trinket appears to have a roughly 25s ICD (or it has been moved to a rppm with an absurd modifier).

I thought the CD reduction one always had a 45 sec ICD, But the new reduction on talents is really good, the 20 cd on stormbolt allows it to be lined up with CS nicely. also provides a nice boost to AoE and the removal of banners seems like a good move making the trinket more personal rather than "I need this for the raid" which it could of been in its previous state.

Well but then its pretty much pointless for reck, since it doesnt line up with your banner anymore. Maybe they should add something else entirely and leave reck/banner combo as it is. Would love to see a cd reduction on Heroic Leap for example.