Today I found myself having to defend the validity of Pastafarianism. If I ever need to do this again, what are some good defenses? Furthermore, do you consider it a valid religion? Are you a Pastafarian in belief or for satirical reasons? Be honest, I would like to know what stance the community takes. (I am a Pastafarian in belief.)

Praise be to The Sauced And Noodly One, and may your cheese never be from a green cardboard can. R'amen.

First, they have to define their terms. What do they mean by validity?

We are Pastafarians: there are many of us out here; we share a roughly similar belief system; we share some of the same ways of observing our religion (eating pasta, talking like pirates, treating Friday as a day of rest, that sort of thing). According to Pastafarianism's flimsy moral standards and complete lack of dogma, that's all we need. We are satisfied that we have a religion, and it does what we want it to do.

If you are being asked for theological validity, then that must be someone applying the same standards to our religion as they do to their own religion. You can't do that with Pastafarianism: we have flimsy moral standards, a complete lack of dogma, and our deity is a bit of a slacker, truth be told. If they want, they can try Pastafarianism for thirty days with no obligation, and if they don't like it they can have their old religion back with no hard feelings, no hellfire, no damnation. That's about the best we can do.

If you are being asked for empirical or logical validity, or even scientific proof, of our religion, just remember the circumstances beind the revelation of our religion: it was a response to the teaching of ID in schools in Kansas. Our religion is just as valid, just as logical as that; more so in fact because we have a graph of pirates vs global warming on our side (whereas all the IDers have is pictures of Jesus riding a dinosaur). So maybe our religion is not as logical or empirical as science, but it's a lot more logical than some religions out there.

Just remember that you have weight of numbers on your side. Thousands of Pastafarians have no problem with the validity of our religion. If someone wants to question its validity, they need to give us a better argument than "I question the validity of your religion". That's like me questioning the validity of their underwear.

"I don't mean to sound bitter, cynical or cruel; but I am, so that's how it comes out." ~ Bill Hicks."To argue with a person who has renounced reason is like administering medicine to the dead." ~ Thomas Paine."One should not believe everything one reads on the internet." ~ Abraham Lincoln."If you're making a political point wearing a balaclava, you're a c***. It was true for the IRA and it's true now." ~ daftbeaker.

Also you could tell them to read the Gospel. I have read the 'The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster' but for some reason the only bit I can remember is 'Don't turn your back on a Mormon'. Having said that that's a very valid piece of advice.

The smoke wafted gently in the breeze across the poop deck and all seemed right in the world.

Roy Hunter wrote:First, they have to define their terms. What do they mean by validity?

We are Pastafarians: there are many of us out here; we share a roughly similar belief system; we share some of the same ways of observing our religion (eating pasta, talking like pirates, treating Friday as a day of rest, that sort of thing). According to Pastafarianism's flimsy moral standards and complete lack of dogma, that's all we need. We are satisfied that we have a religion, and it does what we want it to do.

If you are being asked for theological validity, then that must be someone applying the same standards to our religion as they do to their own religion. You can't do that with Pastafarianism: we have flimsy moral standards, a complete lack of dogma, and our deity is a bit of a slacker, truth be told. If they want, they can try Pastafarianism for thirty days with no obligation, and if they don't like it they can have their old religion back with no hard feelings, no hellfire, no damnation. That's about the best we can do.

If you are being asked for empirical or logical validity, or even scientific proof, of our religion, just remember the circumstances beind the revelation of our religion: it was a response to the teaching of ID in schools in Kansas. Our religion is just as valid, just as logical as that; more so in fact because we have a graph of pirates vs global warming on our side (whereas all the IDers have is pictures of Jesus riding a dinosaur). So maybe our religion is not as logical or empirical as science, but it's a lot more logical than some religions out there.

Just remember that you have weight of numbers on your side. Thousands of Pastafarians have no problem with the validity of our religion. If someone wants to question its validity, they need to give us a better argument than "I question the validity of your religion". That's like me questioning the validity of their underwear.

I will cite a few arguments that I heard, along with my responses:A1) Our small numbers make us invalid.R1) Compare to Judaism. (Ironically, a Jew made that argument.)A2) We don't have a bible.R2) We have two holy texts.A3) The religion was founded for satirical reasons, not as an actual belief system.R3) Whether it was or wasn't, it has since become a belief system.A4) No one sincerely believes in the FSM.R4) That's a pretty big assertion to make about thousands of people. Furthermore, I sincerely believe in the FSM.

Praise be to The Sauced And Noodly One, and may your cheese never be from a green cardboard can. R'amen.

Westboro Baptist Church, anyone? There's less than 100 of them I think. We've had more than that online here at several points. Do they deny the 'validity' of the WBC? Because they'll probably get sued if they do.

Aclor79 wrote:A3) The religion was founded for satirical reasons, not as an actual belief system.A4) No one sincerely believes in the FSM.

Define an actual belief. Define sincerity. No-one can prove their faith in Jesus / Yahweh / Whatever. Likewise the FSM: the evidence for our sincere beliefs is just as valid as theirs.

Aclor79 wrote:

black bart wrote:Also you could get a Pastafarian Minister Certificate...

I've never been too sure of this. Can I be a minister if I'm not a legal adult?

Yes, you can. Flimsy moral standards and lack of dogma, remember..?

"I don't mean to sound bitter, cynical or cruel; but I am, so that's how it comes out." ~ Bill Hicks."To argue with a person who has renounced reason is like administering medicine to the dead." ~ Thomas Paine."One should not believe everything one reads on the internet." ~ Abraham Lincoln."If you're making a political point wearing a balaclava, you're a c***. It was true for the IRA and it's true now." ~ daftbeaker.

It always amazes me that there is an idea that we should believe in an invisible man in the sky that knows everything we're doing, but believing in pasta and meatballs is considered ridiculous. At least if we are wrong about our faith we did have many good pasta nights. And beer . . . lots of beer . . .

Get your bake on.

TwistedSister wrote:You can't go wrong with a side of Bacon on your side.........

I notice there isn't a thread called "Allow Me To Monologue A Bit", and I suppose it's entirely possible that it's just me who feels the occasional need to monologue a bit, so I'm going to have at it here and see if anyone else is interested joining in.

What I want to monologue about is how much fun I am having with Pastafarianism! Which is not to say I'm not serious about it, because I am, but honestly - is there a religion out there with more to offer?

I'm not only referring to the fact that we get a Beer Volcano (with Dom Pedro's as an optional extra I trust) and a Stripper Factory (that caters to our specific tastes) in the afterlife, although that is a winning formula all on its own. I can't say I've ever heard of a more pleasant heaven before.

What I think I like most about everything related to FSM (although it's difficult to pick just one thing) is the fact that I can choose to believe anything I like, anything at all, and still be a true Pastafarian, practically by definition! The complete absense of dogma means I don't have to give up my belief in The Divine Feminine Principle, or life in other galaxies, or any of my other beliefs either! And since I sometimes feel that dear Alice didn't have a patch on me, breakfast or no breakfast, that suits me perfectly. In all my years of conscientious searching I have not found another religion that gives me that much freedom, or that says to me: Go ahead, make up your own mind! Question things! You have a brain - use it! (Okay, too broad a statement, I realize. Buddhism for example says exactly that. But you know what I mean).

The fact that the followers of the inimitable FSM also refuse to ridicule, mock, or otherwise deride the faith and beliefs of anyone else out there is just the cherry on the top. It means we all realise that there is no limit to the amount of beauty and wonder in the world, and we are open to it! Which is, for want of a better phrase, and in my opinion, the best thing since Fish 'Ead Stoo.

Also, I've always felt a bit of a hypocrite, as an atheist, at Christmas time. I always expect somebody to spring out at me and say, "Wait a minute - you're loving this season a little bit too much for someone who staunchly refuses to believe in G-d, nevermind Jesus!" Now I can celebrate Holiday though! And I can celebrate it for a ridiculously long time too - this just keeps getting better!

As for the validity of Pastafarianism - I just dont see how anyone can go about questioning it. What exactly are their arguments against us? I would dearly love to hear one that can't be answered with irrefutable logic/reason/satire/saucy pirate vernacular - bring it on!

There, I'm done, and I feel much better now. I recommend a good monologue to anyone who wants to try it as a mild form of feel-good therapy, or even just because they feel like making everyone else pay attention to them for a little while.

May His Noodliest Noodle always interefere in your life in beautiful and comical ways!

"There's a hell of a good universe next door, let's go!" e e cummings

"And the new day was a great big fish." Terry Pratchett

"WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT FOR THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?" Terry Pratchett (yes again, I'm afraid. He's my absolute favourite author)