oregon fubaralas:Dimensio: oregon fubaralas: Dimensio: oregon fubaralas: Dimensio: oregon fubaralas: Dimensio: oregon fubaralas: When the 911 dispatcher told him to not follow, Zimmerman legally gave up all right to use the standard ground defense. The jury was instructed to IGNORE that law.

Zimmerman will lose on appeal though. But by then, the damage will be done.

Are you attempting to "troll", or are you genuinely entirely ignorant of United States law?

It's not just Florida.

You did not address my question.

Are you attempting to "troll", or is your statement issued due to an ignorance of law?

I did answer your question, and ignorance is the farthest thing I'm from. Read the book:http://lmgtfy.com/?q=THE+FLORIDA+LAW+BOOK

You are mistaken. You have not explained whether you are "trolling" or whether your statements are a result of a complete lack of understanding of law.

Listen, you obviously didn't read the second title.

My question remains unanswered. I still do not know whether you are "trolling" or whether you are willfully ignorant of established law.

Really?

And you're doing it on your PHONE! LOLOLOLOL

You have evidently confused me with another individual. You have also not addressed my question.

I thought "neighborhood watch" were supposed to be eyes to call police when suspicious, or criminal, things were observed. If you see something, retreat, watch and wait for the police. But if Martin went after Zimm unprovoked, after doing my best impression of an Olympic sprinter to run away, I'd have shot Martin, Santa Claus, or Jesus as soon as he grabbed me showing harmful intent.

oregon fubaralas:EbolaNYC: Dimensio: EbolaNYC: Dimensio: EbolaNYC: aerojockey: Gyrfalcon: That Zimmerman could have avoided the fight by staying back (or better still, staying in his car) does not matter to a verdict of self-defense; what matter is, at the moment of decision, did he reasonably believe his life was in danger? And clearly, the jury agreed that he did.

Something occurred to me as I read this. Say (hypothetically, don't know if it's true or not) Zimmerman did get out of his car and assault Martin unprovoked. Say Martin fought back. Say Zimmerman was in fear of his life and shot Martin. Could Zimmerman be potentially found guilty of felony murder?

I know that wasn't the prosecution's case, but.

Had Zimmerman been killed instead, Trayvon would have (or should) been acquitted for the same reason, stand your ground/self defense. That law does little more than make it ok for people to kill each other with a much better chance of getting off.

What specific actions of Mr. Zimmerman would have justified the use of deadly force by Mr. Martin?

He felt threatened and feared for his safety.

You did not address my question.

What specific actions of Mr. Zimmerman would have justified the use of deadly force by Mr. Martin?

Yes I did. You really have no idea what the stand your ground allows do you? Do a little reading, it's easy to find a list of every case under this law, my phone sucks for posting links but I am sure you're up to it.

Tellingthem:Lorelle: Tellingthem: Lorelle: No justice tonight (no surprise), but there will be eventually. Karma's a biatch.

mr lawson: So a Hispanic shoots a black and is acquitted by women, but it's still white men's fault.

He's half white and uses a white name.

Heh...nice. Not Hispanic enough for ya? Maybe if he had the last name of Hernandez or something he'd be more Hispanic in your eyes? I had no idea that a name made more or less "white".

Again, he's half white. For some reason, white people keep trying to label him as solely "Hispanic."

So what? He supposedly identifies himself as Hispanic. So who are we to say "nope you are wrong, you are half white and have a white name so you are white." Why do you get to decide what race he is over him?

tollbooth_willy:And she's the one with the history of going after him with a gun. I think that trumps his longer rap sheet, especially since it's the focus of the trial.

I can't find any mention of her having a history of going after him with a gun. Link? What do you think about the fact that he changed his story, originally telling the authorities that he was the aggressor, but later saying she started the fight?

EbolaNYC:Dimensio: EbolaNYC: Dimensio: EbolaNYC: Dimensio: EbolaNYC: aerojockey: Gyrfalcon: That Zimmerman could have avoided the fight by staying back (or better still, staying in his car) does not matter to a verdict of self-defense; what matter is, at the moment of decision, did he reasonably believe his life was in danger? And clearly, the jury agreed that he did.

Something occurred to me as I read this. Say (hypothetically, don't know if it's true or not) Zimmerman did get out of his car and assault Martin unprovoked. Say Martin fought back. Say Zimmerman was in fear of his life and shot Martin. Could Zimmerman be potentially found guilty of felony murder?

I know that wasn't the prosecution's case, but.

Had Zimmerman been killed instead, Trayvon would have (or should) been acquitted for the same reason, stand your ground/self defense. That law does little more than make it ok for people to kill each other with a much better chance of getting off.

What specific actions of Mr. Zimmerman would have justified the use of deadly force by Mr. Martin?

He felt threatened and feared for his safety.

You did not address my question.

What specific actions of Mr. Zimmerman would have justified the use of deadly force by Mr. Martin?

Yes I did. You really have no idea what the stand your ground allows do you? Do a little reading, it's easy to find a list of every case under this law, my phone sucks for posting links but I am sure you're up to it.

You have not identified any specific actions of Mr. Zimmerman that would have justified the use of deadly force by Mr. Martin. You therefore did not address my question. Your claim that "He felt threatened and feared for his safety." does not constitute a description of any specific action of Mr. Zimmerman.

What specific actions of Mr. Zimmerman would have justified the use of deadly force by Mr. Martin?

You see it's very simple. You have one person's side of the story, so how can you not imagine the roles being reversed?

You still have not addressed my question.

You claimed that "Had Zimmerman been killed instead, Trayvon would have (or should) been acquitted for the same reason, stand your ground/self defense".

I am ignoring, for the moment, that Mr. Zimmerman's defense attorneys did not invoke a "stand your ground" defense. Your claim implies knowledge of Mr. Zimmerman's actions; you must have this knowledge to be able to credibly claim that Mr. Martin would have been justified in killing Mr. Zimmerman in an act of self-defense. I therefore wish to know what specific actions Mr. Zimmerman took that would have justified the use of deadly force against him by Mr. Martin.

What I can "imagine" is irrelevant. Your statement implied knowledge of actual events, not of imagined events. I therefore am requesting an explanation of actual events.

Treygreen13:EbolaNYC: It's not illegal under Florida law, but in most places it would be described as aggressive behavior.

Fortunately for Mr. Zimmerman he was in a trial where people want proof of actions in a scenario, rather in a Fark thread where you can claim anything you want until you get tired of people proving you wrong.

So you wouldn't feel at all threatened by some strange guy tracking you through the streets at night? Obviously that is a purely passive behavior...

Southern100:Tellingthem: Lorelle: No justice tonight (no surprise), but there will be eventually. Karma's a biatch.

mr lawson: So a Hispanic shoots a black and is acquitted by women, but it's still white men's fault.

He's half white and uses a white name.

Heh...nice. Not Hispanic enough for ya? Maybe if he had the last name of Hernandez or something he'd be more Hispanic in your eyes? I had no idea that a name made more or less "white".

"Zimmerman" is German, like his father. His mother is Peruvian, from the Spanish settlements. He was raised Lorelle: Tellingthem: Lorelle: No justice tonight (no surprise), but there will be eventually. Karma's a biatch.

mr lawson: So a Hispanic shoots a black and is acquitted by women, but it's still white men's fault.

He's half white and uses a white name.

Heh...nice. Not Hispanic enough for ya? Maybe if he had the last name of Hernandez or something he'd be more Hispanic in your eyes? I had no idea that a name made more or less "white".

Again, he's half white. For some reason, white people keep trying to label him as solely "Hispanic."

So why aren't we calling President Obama "White"?

This. Obama is half black so we refer to him as all black. Same rules apply to Zimmerman. You can't have it both ways.

Lorelle:Tellingthem: Lorelle: Tellingthem: Lorelle: No justice tonight (no surprise), but there will be eventually. Karma's a biatch.

mr lawson: So a Hispanic shoots a black and is acquitted by women, but it's still white men's fault.

He's half white and uses a white name.

Heh...nice. Not Hispanic enough for ya? Maybe if he had the last name of Hernandez or something he'd be more Hispanic in your eyes? I had no idea that a name made more or less "white".

Again, he's half white. For some reason, white people keep trying to label him as solely "Hispanic."

So what? He supposedly identifies himself as Hispanic. So who are we to say "nope you are wrong, you are half white and have a white name so you are white." Why do you get to decide what race he is over him?

Who's saying he's white? He's half-and-half, not one or the other.

Well, you responded to someone saying he Hispanic by stating he's half-white and uses a white name. So you were just clarifying that he is a half-white Hispanic that uses a "white" name? Again I don't know why you had to point out that he uses a "White name" I didn't think that was important to race. Dave Chappelle has a "white name" does that mean something too? Maybe he should change it to a less white name...

EbolaNYC:Treygreen13: EbolaNYC: It's not illegal under Florida law, but in most places it would be described as aggressive behavior.

Fortunately for Mr. Zimmerman he was in a trial where people want proof of actions in a scenario, rather in a Fark thread where you can claim anything you want until you get tired of people proving you wrong.

So you wouldn't feel at all threatened by some strange guy tracking you through the streets at night? Obviously that is a purely passive behavior...

oregon fubaralas:Dimensio: What specific actions of Mr. Zimmerman would have justified the use of deadly force by Mr. Martin?

A felony being committed on him. The felony being aggravated battery, defined as life threatening or serous enough to alter a person physically. Really.

What action of Mr. Zimmerman constituted "aggrivated battery" under Florida law? Additionally, as you are either "trolling" or demonstrably ignorant of law, for what reason should your assessment be considered to be credible?

shower_in_my_socks:tollbooth_willy: And she's the one with the history of going after him with a gun. I think that trumps his longer rap sheet, especially since it's the focus of the trial.

I can't find any mention of her having a history of going after him with a gun. Link? What do you think about the fact that he changed his story, originally telling the authorities that he was the aggressor, but later saying she started the fight?

Don't remember seeing that. I remember seeing something about he would have "put his hands on her" if he couldn't get out of the house, or something along those lines, and I'm not a fan. But let's not forget that her story changed as well...the door didn't open because it was jammed, then she had to go back in because she forgot her car keys. Which is it? If it was the car keys, she definitely could have gotten out through the working garage door. The fact that she went back 4 months later and started a fight with him, in direct violation of a sitting judge's order, doesn't help with the "he MUST have been the aggressor" stance.

The history that I mentioned with the gun? She was convicted in May of 2012, after all of this crap (and then some) was brought up in court. Thought you read all about the trial?

Dimensio:Southern100: Dimensio: Speculating, without basis, on actions that Mr. Zimmerman "could" have taken does not constitute an explanation of the specific actions that Mr. Zimmerman did take.

My apologies, I thought the "Could" was implied, since the facts of the this particular case has already proven that he performed no specific actions that would have justified the use of deadly force by TM.

EbolaNYC disagrees with your assessment, though as yet EbolaNYC has not identified the specific actions through which such justification would have existed.

Jesus you're thick. I was referring to the law itself. It's flawed because anyone can claim stand your ground at the end of a deadly confrontation. Had the tables been turned and it was Trayvon who was left alive, he could claim stand your ground after being threatened by Zimmerman. Try following me home after I try to get away from you and chances are I will at some point turn around and confront you too. Maybe it's puppy dogs and rainbows on the streets where you live, but a lot of people would see that as a threat and act accordingly.

Dimensio:oregon fubaralas: Dimensio: What specific actions of Mr. Zimmerman would have justified the use of deadly force by Mr. Martin?

A felony being committed on him. The felony being aggravated battery, defined as life threatening or serous enough to alter a person physically. Really.

What action of Mr. Zimmerman constituted "aggrivated battery" under Florida law? Additionally, as you are either "trolling" or demonstrably ignorant of law, for what reason should your assessment be considered to be credible?

Different question. I answered a theoretical.

I posted the links earlier. I would argue that the broken nose is disfiguring, making it felony aggravated felony assault, and a felony against you is justifiable homicide under Florida law.

EbolaNYC:Dimensio: Southern100: Dimensio: Speculating, without basis, on actions that Mr. Zimmerman "could" have taken does not constitute an explanation of the specific actions that Mr. Zimmerman did take.

My apologies, I thought the "Could" was implied, since the facts of the this particular case has already proven that he performed no specific actions that would have justified the use of deadly force by TM.

EbolaNYC disagrees with your assessment, though as yet EbolaNYC has not identified the specific actions through which such justification would have existed.

Jesus you're thick. I was referring to the law itself. It's flawed because anyone can claim stand your ground at the end of a deadly confrontation. Had the tables been turned and it was Trayvon who was left alive, he could claim stand your ground after being threatened by Zimmerman. Try following me home after I try to get away from you and chances are I will at some point turn around and confront you too. Maybe it's puppy dogs and rainbows on the streets where you live, but a lot of people would see that as a threat and act accordingly.

I am aware of no state in which the act of "following", absent any other qualifiers, justifies the use of deadly force.

and just doing his daily good deed by calling the cops on martin, right?

Apparently. I'm sure he could have been lying about going to the store to avoid the draconian punishment his neighborhood watch organisation would doubtless mete out for violating their laws, but he could also just have been going to the store, like he said.

I dig how don west had the huevos to thank the jury for keeping a tragedy from turning into a travesty, like he didn't tell a tasteless, tactless joke in his opening statement, and his daughter's stupid cone picture...Wowdudereally.jpg

Tellingthem:Lorelle: Tellingthem: Lorelle: Tellingthem: Lorelle: No justice tonight (no surprise), but there will be eventually. Karma's a biatch.

mr lawson: So a Hispanic shoots a black and is acquitted by women, but it's still white men's fault.

He's half white and uses a white name.

Heh...nice. Not Hispanic enough for ya? Maybe if he had the last name of Hernandez or something he'd be more Hispanic in your eyes? I had no idea that a name made more or less "white".

Again, he's half white. For some reason, white people keep trying to label him as solely "Hispanic."

So what? He supposedly identifies himself as Hispanic. So who are we to say "nope you are wrong, you are half white and have a white name so you are white." Why do you get to decide what race he is over him?

Who's saying he's white? He's half-and-half, not one or the other.

Well, you responded to someone saying he Hispanic by stating he's half-white and uses a white name. So you were just clarifying that he is a half-white Hispanic that uses a "white" name? Again I don't know why you had to point out that he uses a "White name" I didn't think that was important to race. Dave Chappelle has a "white name" does that mean something too? Maybe he should change it to a less white name...