I never said unreadable, I said less readable. I don't see why it's a huge issue with you? I think it looks nice and I can't see the average joe coming to MFGG6.0 and going "I can't read this text immediately, I hate this website".

This isn't about average joes, it's about readability for people who don't have perfect eyesight. It's also not about people hating the website. A colorblind person may love the website but be forced to use Stylish or a similar plugin to be able to read certain things.

And it's not that it's a huge issue; it's just an issue that should be avoided as much as humanly possible in the interest of accessibility. MFGG is a forum for people from all walks of life so it makes sense to follow proper accessibility standards even if it sometimes doesn't look exactly as nice to normal-eyed people

[quote="Kritter"]I never said unreadable, I said less readable. I don't see why it's a huge issue with you? I think it looks nice and I can't see the average joe coming to MFGG6.0 and going "I can't read this text immediately, I hate this website".[/quote]
This isn't about average joes, it's about readability for people who don't have perfect eyesight. It's also not about people hating the website. A colorblind person may love the website but be forced to use Stylish or a similar plugin to be able to read certain things.
And it's not that it's a huge issue; it's just an issue that should be avoided as much as humanly possible in the interest of accessibility. MFGG is a forum for people from all walks of life so it makes sense to follow proper accessibility standards even if it sometimes doesn't look exactly as nice to normal-eyed people

As a colour blind person with astigmatism and very poor eyesight I still think it looks better darker. If we're going to talk colourblindness then we might as well literally make it black and white, and I'm not even joking this time. My Uncle has one of the worst forms of colourblindness, MFGG in any colour would probably look like **** to him. He can't even tell traffic light colours apart.

Me though, I'm on the side of designers and I know you can't please everybody, I'd rather a website be accessible where it needs to be, but still look nice when accessibility for 100% of the website doesn't really matter. I think to nitpick so hard is just silly, that's the designer in me.

But as I say, I've changed the slightly light blue to a blue so light that it might as well be white anyway, so people who really need to know, can now tell that news was "Posted by VinnyVideo- April 22, 2017 - 5:38 PM".

As a colour blind person with astigmatism and very poor eyesight I still think it looks better darker. If we're going to talk colourblindness then we might as well literally make it black and white, and I'm not even joking this time. My Uncle has one of the worst forms of colourblindness, MFGG in any colour would probably look like shit to him. He can't even tell traffic light colours apart.
Me though, I'm on the side of designers and I know you can't please everybody, I'd rather a website be accessible where it needs to be, but still look nice when accessibility for 100% of the website doesn't really matter. I think to nitpick so hard is just silly, that's the designer in me.
But as I say, I've changed the slightly light blue to a blue so light that it might as well be white anyway, so people who really need to know, can now tell that news was "Posted by VinnyVideo- April 22, 2017 - 5:38 PM".

Accessibility standards weren't created arbitrarily. If you follow them than even profoundly colorblind people will be able to read all the text on the site. It's not my problem whether or not you care about this; I'm just telling you what's expected from a standard created by people who are probably smarter than either of us.

Accessibility standards weren't created arbitrarily. If you follow them than even profoundly colorblind people will be able to read all the text on the site. It's not my problem whether or not you care about this; I'm just telling you what's expected from a standard created by people who are probably smarter than either of us.

It's great to see progress on MFGG3! Here's a list of things I'd like to say:

I like the color-scheme. The blues kinda gives it a happy atmosphere, which, I enjoy. I don't really see an issue with the contrast, but I do think it would be better to have any sort of text at least pop out a bit, even if it's not exactly the most important bit of text. The white bits that have you type stuff in look rather weird to me to at first, I just think it's odd to go from very little white to having a lot of white suddenly. I find myself getting slowly used to it, though. If you're looking for an alternative, then here's a couple quick edits that might help with ideas:Spoiler:

Spoiler:

lumaSMS sounds like a very nice name for the software to me. I can't think of a better name for it.

I don't really have a problem with having text on patterns, although I think having some sort of outline around the text on patterns (probably the color of the darker color on the pattern) would be nice.

The buttons seem fine to me (although in the first screenshot, I think the text is a bit too high). I don't mind if it's rounded or non-rounded, even though, having round things when nearly everything else isn't is kinda odd but not enough to bother me, however.

Are there plans to update Game of the Month banners (at least those that were made after MFGG3 is up) in order to look more like MFGG3? I think it would be silly and weird to have banners that use elements from a generation of the main site that will be obsolete at some point.

I think it overall looks good, though. If it took you about a couple weeks to code all of that, HylianDev, then I'm pretty sure that it won't be too long until you have it ready to be released.

It's great to see progress on MFGG3! Here's a list of things I'd like to say:
[list]
[*]I like the color-scheme. The blues kinda gives it a happy atmosphere, which, I enjoy. I don't really see an issue with the contrast, but I do think it would be better to have any sort of text at least pop out a bit, even if it's not exactly the most important bit of text. The white bits that have you type stuff in look rather weird to me to at first, I just think it's odd to go from very little white to having a lot of white suddenly. I find myself getting slowly used to it, though. If you're looking for an alternative, then here's a couple quick edits that might help with ideas:
[spoiler][img]http://www.quintonland.com/MFGG/lumasms_mockup.PNG[/img][/spoiler]
[spoiler][img]http://www.quintonland.com/MFGG/lumasms_mockup_1.PNG[/img][/spoiler]
[*]lumaSMS sounds like a very nice name for the software to me. I can't think of a better name for it.
[*]I don't really have a problem with having text on patterns, although I think having some sort of outline around the text on patterns (probably the color of the darker color on the pattern) would be nice.
[*]The buttons seem fine to me (although in the first screenshot, I think the text is a bit too high). I don't mind if it's rounded or non-rounded, even though, having round things when nearly everything else isn't is kinda odd but not enough to bother me, however.
[*]Are there plans to update Game of the Month banners (at least those that were made after MFGG3 is up) in order to look more like MFGG3? I think it would be silly and weird to have banners that use elements from a generation of the main site that will be obsolete at some point.[/list]
I think it overall looks good, though. If it took you about a couple weeks to code all of that, HylianDev, then I'm pretty sure that it won't be too long until you have it ready to be released. ;)

This is the longest debate over a paragraph under 50 characters that I've ever had.

Because accessibility is a huge thing in web design and you're kind of just treating it as a bummer/inconvenience

You're also being really snotty about this for no real reason

[quote="Kritter"]This is the longest debate over a paragraph under 50 characters that I've ever had.[/quote]
Because accessibility is a huge thing in web design and you're kind of just treating it as a bummer/inconvenience
You're also being really snotty about this for no real reason

I just think people have made a bigger deal out of 50 characters than it needed to be. It went from "hey nice website" to "It's USER HOSTILE CHANGE IT IMMEDIATELY!!" as soon as someone piped up about contrast. As I say I could understand if it was the whole website having bad contrast, and I get that people want the WHOLE website to be readable, but I still think my reasons for wanting certain unimportant pieces of text less visible are valid and I still think that changing it makes it look worse.

I just think people have made a bigger deal out of 50 characters than it needed to be. It went from "hey nice website" to "It's USER HOSTILE CHANGE IT IMMEDIATELY!!" as soon as someone piped up about contrast. As I say I could understand if it was the whole website having bad contrast, and I get that people want the WHOLE website to be readable, but I still think my reasons for wanting certain unimportant pieces of text less visible are valid and I still think that changing it makes it look worse.

If it's such a small piece of text that doesn't matter to you, why are you so up in arms about fixing it (and still arguing about it, especially now when you're just repeating yourself???)? Honestly if this is how criticism towards this project is going to be taken I don't really see why anyone should bother contributing. Meeting some basic accessibility standards shouldn't be like pulling teeth and then having a big sore loser after the change is made who has to keep reminding us how his original design Looked Better To Him.

[font=Comic Sans MS]If it's such a small piece of text that doesn't matter to you, why are you so up in arms about fixing it (and still arguing about it, especially now when you're just repeating yourself???)? Honestly if this is how criticism towards this project is going to be taken I don't really see why anyone should bother contributing. Meeting some basic accessibility standards shouldn't be like pulling teeth and then having a big sore loser after the change is made who has to keep reminding us how his original design Looked Better To Him.[/font]

I'm not "up in arms", I already "fixed" it, that doesn't mean I can't explain why I think it's fine in some cases to direct the users attention to more important elements. I simply don't agree that 100% of the website needs to be instantly readable, but I've changed it either way as I said a few times now, seems like you're way more upset about it than I am.

I'm not "up in arms", I already "fixed" it, that doesn't mean I can't explain why I think it's fine in some cases to direct the users attention to more important elements. I simply don't agree that 100% of the website needs to be instantly readable, but I've changed it either way as I said a few times now, seems like you're way more upset about it than I am.

Kritter, I have no issue admitting when I'm mad online. Yeah I'm pissed off you won't let it go and want to take up the whole thread about how poor Kritter had to change one line of text. Do we want to make the best possible site or not? I've put in my feedback about it and quite frankly I don't care if you don't follow things that are my personal preference (which as you can see everything in that list has been moved on from except for this), but it's worth fighting for changes to make the site meet basic standards. (changes which, as you've said, you've already made?? so uhh?????)

Like, it's nice you're contributing but I can see why none of the "new MFGG" projects get very far if this is how flaws in your design are handled.

[font=Comic Sans MS]Kritter, I have no issue admitting when I'm mad online. Yeah I'm pissed off you won't let it go and want to take up the whole thread about how poor Kritter had to change one line of text. Do we want to make the best possible site or not? I've put in my feedback about it and quite frankly I don't care if you don't follow things that are my personal preference (which as you can see everything in that list has been moved on from except for this), but it's worth fighting for changes to make the site meet basic standards. (changes which, as you've said, you've already made?? so uhh?????)
Like, it's nice you're contributing but I can see why none of the "new MFGG" projects get very far if this is how flaws in your design are handled.[/font]

Because you don't get to tell me when I can and cannot have an opinion? I already changed it so if you want to stop talking about it then stop trying to make me share the same opinion as you and accept that I simply liked it better before. I'm allowed to do that aren't I? I'd love to agree to disagree but you're super hostile for no reason.

"I don't like it but I changed it to suit accessibility" should really be the end of it.

Because you don't get to tell me when I can and cannot have an opinion? I already changed it so if you want to stop talking about it then stop trying to make me share the same opinion as you and accept that I simply liked it better before. I'm allowed to do that aren't I? I'd love to agree to disagree but you're super hostile for no reason.
"I don't like it but I changed it to suit accessibility" should really be the end of it.

I don't want to pick a side, but I will say that color blindness is an issue we should take really seriously when we can. If there's legitimate reason to be concerned about color blindness (which someone else will be able to figure out better than I could), then let's take care of it.

This conversation has been an ugly mark on the topic. Let's keep it focused on progress please.

It'd be great if we could put an end to this.
I don't want to pick a side, but I will say that color blindness is an issue we should take really seriously when we can. If there's legitimate reason to be concerned about color blindness (which someone else will be able to figure out better than I could), then let's take care of it.
This conversation has been an ugly mark on the topic. Let's keep it focused on progress please.

According to information on Wikipedia, 8 percent of males of Northern European descent have some diminished ability to discern between colors. Of the United States Population, 7 percent of males are either red-green colorblind or perceive red and green differently due to defective cones. Since red-green anomalies are sex-linked, there are far fewer females with color vision anomalies than males.

Considering that MFGG is largely made up of Americans and Europeans, there's most likely going to be quite a few people who will have trouble telling colors apart. You can use a colorblindness simulator like this one to get a basic idea of how colorblindness works.

If I may interject.
[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_blindness#Epidemiology]According to information on Wikipedia[/url], 8 percent of males of Northern European descent have some diminished ability to discern between colors. Of the United States Population, 7 percent of males are either red-green colorblind or perceive red and green differently due to defective cones. Since red-green anomalies are sex-linked, there are far fewer females with color vision anomalies than males.
Considering that MFGG is largely made up of Americans and Europeans, there's most likely going to be quite a few people who will have trouble telling colors apart. You can use a colorblindness simulator [url=http://www.color-blindness.com/coblis-color-blindness-simulator/]like this one[/url] to get a basic idea of how colorblindness works.

Again I'll say that a single string of text isn't a huge problem (in fact I don't even know what string we're talking about), it's more an issue of how criticism is going to be taken into account for this project. It's no skin off my nose but imo don't ask for criticism if you're going to act all victimized when you get some

With that, I'll drop the accessibility discussion for now, even though WTL and I have done nothing wrong here lol. Just trying to work with Kritter and educate him on some long-standing standards and expectations of web design. The theme so far looks great to me; hopefully we can stick to said standards so it'll look just as good for everyone.

Again I'll say that a single string of text isn't a huge problem (in fact I don't even know what string we're talking about), it's more an issue of how criticism is going to be taken into account for this project. It's no skin off my nose but imo don't ask for criticism if you're going to act all victimized when you get some
With that, I'll drop the accessibility discussion for now, even though WTL and I have done nothing wrong here lol. Just trying to work with Kritter and educate him on some long-standing standards and expectations of web design. The theme so far looks great to me; hopefully we can stick to said standards so it'll look just as good for everyone.

All I did was have a design opinion, I haven't done anything wrong either. Super Mario WTL seems to the the only pissed off party here. I changed the offending line of coloured text a page ago, let it go.

All I did was have a design opinion, I haven't done anything wrong either. Super Mario WTL seems to the the only pissed off party here. I changed the offending line of coloured text a page ago, let it go.

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