Windows phone didn't fail because of Live Tiles

Jason L Ward is a columnist at Windows Central. He provides unique big picture analysis of the complex world of Microsoft. Jason takes the small clues and gives you an insightful big picture perspective through storytelling that you won't find anywhere else. Seriously, this dude thinks outside the box. Follow him on Twitter at @JLTechWord. He's doing the "write" thing!

Is the Windows phone Live Tile UI inherently unintuitive? Some people think it is and claim that it's at the root of Microsoft's mobile woes.

The claim that the unique Live Tile-based UI is inherently unintuitive and the cause of Windows phone's failure I think is limited in perspective. It is more the timing of the introduction of the Windows phone UI into the market that resulted in its rejection and the platform's failure.

The problem isn't the tiles

The fact that many consumers who are presented a Windows phone find the UI initially off-putting must be considered within the context that most smartphone users are using iOS and Android.

Consequently, the unfamiliar Live Tile UI, like most things unknown, has an inherent learning curve. The ease with which users switch between the iPhone and Android phones with fewer hiccups than moving between those platforms and Windows phones has to do with the similar static icon-based UI iOS and most Android phones share. In a nutshell, in an iPhone and Android dominated market smartphone users are used to a static icon-based UI and have little problem switching between what's familiar.

Microsoft research demos interactive Live Tiles between PC and phone.

This reality does not necessarily support a claim that a static-icon based UI is more intuitive than a Live Tile UI as some may believe.

I don't believe that the Windows phone Live Tile UI is inherently unintuitive. What I do believe is that by the time Microsoft brought it to market, its lateness simply made it "unfamiliar" to the masses of smartphone users. If Microsoft was earlier to market with Windows Phone 7, perhaps before the iPhone or concurrent to its introduction, things may have turned out differently for Microsoft.

Defining a new paradigm

There's a saying that the early bird gets the worm. If Microsoft were earlier to the consumer smartphone space, perhaps its Live Tile UI would have helped define the consumer smartphone experience.

Microsoft's Computer Human Interaction Group demonstrates the unfulfilled potential of Live Tiles on phone and PC.

In 2007 smartphones were new to the consumer masses (though old hat to the enterprise and techies) after all. At that time feature phones with their archaic UI's defined the mobile experiences for the masses.

Any new UI could have replaced that experience. The icon-based UI that Apple succeeded with was due to good timing, a good product, and great marketing.

What if Microsoft and Live Tiles were first?

Suppose Microsoft had introduced Windows Phone 7 on the heels of a feature phone consumer market rather than chasing an iOS and Android consumer market in 2010.

The frame of reference in that context would have been a feature phone UI compared to a Live Tile-based UI. The touch friendly, Live Tile, information-rich fluid Windows phone UI would have been an incredible leap in the mobile experience of consumers. Users would not have seen the touch-friendly Windows Phone 7 UI and OS as inherently unintuitive.

Microsoft who was first to the enterprise smartphone space was too slow in bringing its vision of a mobile OS to the consumer masses. Unlike what it accomplished in the PC space, it lost the opportunity to define what a mobile personal computing would be for consumers. I'm reminded of the proverb:

How long wilt though sleep, O sluggard? When wilt thou arise out of thy sleep? Yet a little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to sleep: so shall thy poverty come as one that travaileth…

Microsoft as a company is by no means impoverished, but its mobile efforts have yielded an expected and ever-decreasing number to its balance sheets. The company's contentment with its PC position and its over 40 percent smartphone market share at its peak caused the company to become slothful in its mobile strategy.

Microsoft, not Live Tiles was the problem with mobile

Though Live Tiles aren't and never were by their nature an inherent barrier to the adoption of Windows phones, the timing of their introduction into a smartphone experience defined by a static icon-based experience is a problem to the UI's adoption.

Microsoft seems intent on holding on to Live Tiles as evidenced by their use in the Windows 10 Start Menu. This is good news to millions of ardent Windows phone fans who love Live Tiles. But Microsoft is going to have to do better if it wants Live Tiles to keep up or stay ahead of the evolving mobile experience.

Microsoft and developers must be willing to advance Live Tile functionality and the experience making them more consistent with their original vision going forward. For instance, Live Tile's must always display the latest information, must have notifications for all apps, should be more interactive, and the return of the Me Tile with added functionality are just some things Microsoft should bring to the table.

Exploding Live Tiles or Mixed View, which provides access to additional app content or functions seems to be a vision that Microsoft has forsaken with the ill-fated McLaren. Apple, on the other hand, has taken and applied that concept with force touch in iOS. Microsoft would do well to revisit Mixed View.

The sad truth every Windows phone enthusiast must accept is that Live Tiles aren't at the root of Windows phone's woes, Microsoft is. Let's hope Microsoft has learned from its mistakes.

Reader comments

Windows phone didn't fail because of Live Tiles

Pages

<p>I think live tiles were intuitive, easier to use, more potent in terms of functionality and beautiful to look at. The real reason of failure of Microsoft Windows Phone is the lack of belief on the product by the Microsoft team themselves. They relied on research that was bound to give a picture that Android phones had put in the minds of the users. They didnt have the confidence of their own gut feel that this product would work</p>

<p>So what Windows Phone really lacked is a leader who would back the product as if it is his son or daughter. So that lack of belief got translated to the marketing team, sales teams and also the product team. I cannot possibly find a reason why they have done away with the integrated people hub and the ME tile, which got FB posts and Tweets to the user just by a swipe on the profile. All the social media management tools of today are building that feature today. Imagine the social analytics Microsoft could have built on the integrated platform..</p>

<p>Then they did away with the picture hub. Picture hub / Video hub were brilliant ideas but there was no statesman in Microsoft to back it.</p>

<p>They they did away with Mix Radio, which was a fantastic app for music. Look at what all the music apps are doing today.. the same thing that Mix did much earlier.</p>

<p>I really dont have the time to list all the blunders that Microsoft made. But one thing for sure that I would shout and say, Microsoft killed an amazing product because there was no Steve Jobs at Microsoft to back it</p>

<p>To conclude, I will forever remember the tiles and all the windows phone I have owned till date. No IPhone and no android can come close to them in terms of user experience.</p>

You can't exactly group Android and iOS together in this regard. Well anyways. What you are focusing on is the future and what Live Tiles could be and not what they are. I'm not saying that the future of Live Tiles isn't good. When I imagine CShell Live Tiles don't quite fit for me personally.

I just switched to a Galaxy S8 from my 950. It's definitely a significant improvement over my 950 in terms of hardware, and Android does have some good features that Windows is definitely missing. In some ways, Android is lightyears ahead, but sometimes it feels Windows Mobile is lightyears ahead. The 950 is probably the best smartphone I've ever had. The only real reason I got a S8 was the battery was better, and the 950 was getting sluggish. I wish MS would release a new Lumia.

APPs!!!. That is what killed WP. APPs and nothing else. Forget about live tiles and customisation and what have you. Lack of apps is what made recommending WP impossible. People couldn't find their favourite apps. When they existed, they came with only 10% of the Android/iOS functionality.

Live tiles is a great feature. Iphones' and Android's icons are plain and lifeless. Live tiles have information, notifications, it animates and is resizable. Those iphone and android users who thought windows is confusing must have not really used a windows phone. Windows users even survived a long time w/o notification center because of live tiles. Let's see an iphone or android today w/o notif center, that phone will be useless.

The problem with live tiles is that it was never updated. It stayed that way and got stale. I've showed, and others as well, interactive live tiles many years ago. It showed great potential. We could have controlled music, or perform simple interactions through live tiles. But the biggest update since then is that it's chaseable. So dull. And things we could have all done through interactive live tiles are being scattered throughout the desktop.

Now taskbar is getting more and more cluttered, filled with images of contacts, buttons and stuff and when you click start you will now be annoyed by the tile animations, because now they have become irelevant.

I would love to imagne a time line in another universe where Microsoft has launched WP7 just 1.5 years earlier.......

Windows Phone has evolved a lot and gained many features but unfortunately lost several features as well (as you mentioned "Me Tile". But for me it was entire "People Hub Experience"). I would be thrilled if some of these lost features will come back in future builds.

I've seen lots of theories including lack of advertising, it was the tiles/UI, lack of apps, etc. Some theories have more validity than others no doubt, but the fact that you've never heard a particular claim isn't proof it was never made.

it is The lost case. No sense to discuss and defend its prettiness, elegance and other graphical virtues! The fact is, it failed because there is no consistent and easy usability in it. I repeated it hundred times: too many tiles sizes, too easy to move them or simply loose off the screen, too hard readability. It is simply not acceptable by majority of people. I personally like it, but I see all its drawbacks and I spend too much time tweaking it. This is not a good candidate for a popular user's interface - just like Windows 10 start menu. Sorry guys, develop something else and start again. The World is not lost yet.

When you build something then you have to Promote it and to Market it.
If the customer doesnt know the product then will never buy it.

Also when all the others Companies do Promotion and Marketing and Consumer doesnt know anything about Mobile Phones then he will gonna buy the one who hears more.
All Advertisments on TV and on Radio are from Samsung and Apple.

Also the all the Telecomunication Companies like Vodafone and other are Advertising New Devices like Samsung Galaxy S8 and Apple iPhone 7.
So Microsoft if you read me, I must tell you that your mistakes are too many and are all connect it like a chain.
All your Big mistakes Start from 2014 until now.
You could been a Big Game Changer from 2012 with Nokia Lumia 1020.
There was your Best Big Weapon.
You could envolve it and make it every year Better in Hardware Specifications, Better in Design, Better in OS.
You could be on the TOP of the Mobile Phone Chain.
You could have build today a Beautifull Phone with Specs like below:
CPU: 8-Core SnapDragon 835 (4x1.5 GHz & 4x2.5 GHz).
GPU: Adreno 540.
RAM: 8GB DDR4.
SSD: 256GB.
Rear Camera: 41 MP, Carl Zeiss Optics, OIS/DIS Triple-LED RGB Flash.
Front Camera: 12 MP, Carl Zeiss Optics, OIS/DIS Triple-LED RGB Flash.
Display Protection: Corning Gorilla Glass 5. Protection: - IP68 certified - Dust and Water Resistant Up to 1.5 Meter and 30 Minutes. - MIL-STD 810G - Grade Salt, Fog, Humidity, Transport Shock and Thermal Shock Resistant.

Windows phone and mobile both failed only because Microsoft wanted to that happen, they got late to the phone market later Microsoft started to develop for their two rivals the same applications even with better quality and also they Never did any advertising on other countries, without ads your product don't exist to the eyes of the rest of the potential consumers in other words windows phone and mobile failed because Microsoft wanted that happens

The reason that smartphones became popular was because they integrated several portable devices into a single piece of hardware. The successful companies took note of this, included the latest available technology and made it available through as many channels as possible.

Microsoft relied solely upon their operating system and ignored the above. Their first mistake was creating a phone with no LTE when LTE first came out. They also were exlusive to one carrier at first. Their cameras were one generation behind. Because of their first misstep, many people either purchased iPhones and locked into the Apple ecosystem or purchased LTE Android phones and committed to that ecosystem.

Microsoft phones never included technology that was exclusive. There were plenty of opportunities to invest in high quality internal DACs, excellent antennas, wonderful new WiFi systems and other sensor tech that Microsoft ignored.

In all other product ranges, I am a Microsoft fanboy, but in the mobile smartphone market, they are still years behind in hardware!

The tiles rocked! They still do on my 950. But the apps just aren't there. I don't really understand that end of the game, but would love to see an analysis of how Microsoft lost with developers AND, in the US, with the carriers. It's whole life, Windows phones were always relegated to the back of the AT&T stores I ever went in to ...with the exception of the 1020 and, only briefly, the 1520. I would go in to get a new phone and be bombarded with why I should by a new iPhone...only to pull out whatever Lumia I was upgrading from to hear..."Oh. Yeah. I think we have one or two in the back..."

The sooner people, and more importantly MS high management, realize that whatever this moron Belfiore touches is ruined, the better.

How could someone who secretly admired iPhones, bastardized the OS trying to match it, ruined all its best differentiating features, and failed to convince developers to support his platform, be a successful platform leader? It can't be. Simple as that.

Further proof, as soon as he started managing Cortana, the service lost identity, and stagnated. The only solution became to merge with Alexa, simply because he could not find a way for Cortana to compete.

He lacks leadership, imagination, creativity.
He is only good for fancy haircuts that do not suit his face. And before someone says that this is just a low jab, that is actually proof that shows that someone lacks taste, and understandng of what's good and suitable even for himself.

1. OEMs have learned from their past mistakes. When the PC emerged the OEMs made the mistake to allow Windows to have a virtual monopoly on the desktop. The competition was strong on the hardware side and profit margins were minimal (5-10%) while Microsoft was charging an arm and a leg because it was enjoying its virtual monopoly and had no competition.

2. Software companies learned their lesson too. When a company controls the operating system, it controls everything that runs on top of it, and can and will abuse its powers in order to maximize profit. Corel learned that the hard way when Microsoft made sure the then very popular WordPerfect crashed on Windows 95 in order to push people to use Microsoft Office. Netscape, Java, Samba, Kaspersky and may other victims were not pleased with Microsoft's tactics.

3. When Microsoft launched Windows Phone it severely restricted which components the OEMs could use and that drove up the costs for the manufacturers. They didn't like that. Also Microsoft didn't allow customizations of the OS, so the OEMs could not differentiate their products. They didn't like that. Compare that attitude with Google's which allows anyone to get the source code and modify the OS as they like, or change the UI.

I know some of you will argue that the OEMs have allowed Android to achieve a virtual monopoly, but Android is much less of a danger because it is open source. Google can't abuse its position much. If Google does that, the OEMs will simply get the source code and make a clone Android that has nothing to do with Google. There are already a lot of Android phones in China and elsewhere that run a custom version of Android. It's not perfect, but it keeps Google relatively honest. Android is not open enough for my taste but it is the most open widely used OS. But I think platforms in general and OSes in particular must be open source in order to prevent the company that owns them from abusing its dominant position.

It seems that every email I get from WindowsCentral is just another re-hash of a previous article going over the same of crap yet again. Can't you come up with anything original?

Everybody should know by now (unless they are completed IT illiterate and living under a rock and haven't seen all the other rehashes of this topic) that Windows Phone failed because Microsoft screwed up with the launch of both Windows and Windows phone. They should have released the Windows Phones at the same time as Windows 8 on the PC, not months and months later, and then not a useless buggy version that had so many common features missing that Android and iPhone users took for granted. A mistake which they then repeated the same mistake with Windows phone 10, which was also buggy as hell.
As I have always said since day 1, the most blatantly common sense approach would have been to launch Windows 8/10 with PC + phone bundles, marketing the whole integration and syncing, then folks would have been far more willing to give it a try and put their Android/iPhone to the side for a while.

I have only ever heard people say positive things about the live tiles, they are more intuitive if anything and the whole interface is less cluttered. Android is a complete mess, icons all over the place, not even in alphabetical order, swiping back and forth through screens to find your app.

Hmm. Let's see. Do I want icons that hearken back to the days of Windows 1.0 (i.e., IOS and Android), or do I want tiles I can interact with and give me information without opening the app? Decisions, decisions.

This article sets up a straw man. I've been involved in this community ever since WP7 and I can't recall anyone ever calling live tiles "unintuitive". You tap them just like any other static icon. There is no difference in terms of how users interact with them.

The typical claim was something entirely different, namely that live tiles are ugly! Particularly WP7 certainly had this problem, as they were either solid color tiles or whatever the app developer thought a tile should look like, which made most start screens look like noisy advertising billboards. It also lacked the ability to set a background picture, so it looked terrible in advertisements compared to the competition. Without a picture it also never seemed as personal.

Joe Belfiore constantly stating how WP7 was beautiful wouldn't have been necessary if that's how a majority perceived it. It wasn't.

This is superficial stuff really, but for the average consumer how it looks is one of the primary factors influencing purchasing decisions.

Never understood the argument that Live Tiles are more informative than iOS and Android for example, and that is their advantage. Actually their not informative at all. You have to sit and wait seconds even minutes for them to rotate itself and show you something which is the exact oposite of "at a glance", and even after they show you something its a cut text that you cannot even interact with and still have to open the app. Most of the apps don't even have info on their tiles and are just pure icons with squares around them eating estate of the screen. Extremely pointless and stupid UI IMO. Never been practical, are not, and won't be. It is proven that grid of icons is what people want, love and are gotten used to for thousand of years. Why hide grid of icons under squares of ICONS and nothing more. On other systems like iOS you just have to light up the phone (not unlock it like in Windows, which is an additional step) and you see all your apps info in the notifications, which is the exact same thing as staring at your "Live Tiles" without the waiting for something to happen part. The other argument against grid of icons is that they are "boring". Aren't devices just a tool to complement our lives? I feel sorry for people that need to find entertainment in a home screen, and not the actual content. Live Tiles have always been camouflaged icons, with ****** excuse, that makes no practical sense. They're only purpose and still reason to exist is to be a differentiator and that's all. When you look at a screen with big ugly one golored squares, you immediately say "Oh this is Windows" and that's pretty much it. There is no bad advertisement, but in the case of Windows history showed this identification brings 0 value, not to say only negatives.

The failure of Windows Phone/Mobile was a combination of many "mistakes" (I ignored WP and W10M was my first MS experience on a phone) :

1. "Windows" didn't ring very well with people. People use it on their computers because the alternatives were worse, but to use it on your phone?
2. Live tiles were a bit too different. That in combination with a lack of a stable place to find all the notifications didn't work so well with consumers (I know it was rectified and it now works even better than the competition).
3. Notifications were too unreliable (my WP friends always complained about them).
4. The whole horizontal navigatable UI:s with large labels and huge contrast visuals looked really ugly in my opinion.
5. Constant OS reboots.
6. Limited and locked down like iOS, but with almost none of the advantages in the beginning. Especially the apps.
7. Many features are limited to Cortana, yet Cortana only speak like 8 languages in total. Try saying norwegian street names (and similar) in english. It never understands what you're trying to say.

I was really hoping for W10M, but it also failed because of quite a few reasons:

1. Really unstable at the beginning.
2. Limited number of handsets.
3. The constant OS reboots kept developers away.
4. Consumers had already given up on Microsoft's mobile OS:s. The comments I got when I showed my Lumia 950 was all in the style of: "Windows Phone? It's dead and buried. Who wants it?" - combined with some laughter.
5. All this talk about UWP, whilst still not releasing all its apps for UWP and instead focusing on iOS and Android.
6. Microsoft basically killed it off by being vague. I jumped to the Samsung Galaxy S8 and now enjoy quicker apps, a camera which is lightyears ahead of the one found on the Lumia 950, Samsung Pay, etc.

I agree, it's not a UI problem, it's the Microsoft's marketing laziness that caused this situation. It's their lack of vision back then in 2007 in regard of smartphone usefulness. And later their poor marketing, the bad choices they made (exclusive carriers, exclusive markets), the habit of rebooting the platform every few years, those were some of the causes for Windows Mobile downfall.

It was the tiles for me. Getting my first smartphone, I based my decision on cost, hardware specs, and the look of the OS. Apple was out due to cost, and it came down basically to the look of the OS for the decision. Android reminded me of my desktop Windows. Tiles took up too much room. I'm a photographer; the wallpaper is important to me. Tiles didn't stand a chance in my mind. Windows lost because of the tiles.

Dillan, you're the first one here to express my initial POV about live tiles. I love my wallpapers and the tiles blocked too much of it. WP8 UI looked claustrophobic to me, so when it was time for a new phone, I went from iOS to Android. But, I was never satisfied with iOS or Android. When tile transparency and full screen/tile picture options came to W10M, I waited for the OS to stabilize, jumped on a Lumia 950 sale and finally found a phone I could be happy with. It's a shame that Microsoft leadership lacks the vision and commitment needed to survive in the consumer smartphone arena.

It was never the tiles.
It's the lack of apps.
The Windows phone OS is terrific. The simple truth is users want cross platform functionality when it comes to mobile applications and they want apps to work on what ever cell phone they own. It's that simple.
It's a shame because the cell phone market is boring as hell. Every new handset looks the same. Where did the all the innovation go. A better question is why do consumers settle for it. Maybe are all becoming consumer "Sheep"!

Live tiles have alot of potential and every time i look up a grid of icons on an Iphone or Android smartphone I am reminded of old monochrome screens aeons ago suchas the classic 3210. Icons have not substantially changed from that time and when did the 3210 come out?

1999 so almost 20 years ago.

2 decades and the progress on interaction has been pretty much zilch.

I have been saying time and time again Microsoft over reacts and in this case Microsoft's current management is THE problem. Ballmer set a course for Microsoft that would have kept it relevant and open up avenues for more franchises therefore increasing mindshare drastically.

As well creating a platform (Xbox Entertainment Studios) allowing Microsoft to be able to showcase their and partner products through product placement in live action series for example.

In addition this would have allowed franchises to be able to intertwine with merchandising for example Halo - Cortana speakers and allow the developers to push new characters thus increasing the story branches.

Or Animation movies based on the killer instinct franchise to grow the gamer base and by extension sell more consoles which would also expand the Windows ecosystem. Then you have partner products suchas accessories and so on.

Thus solidifying Windows as the most interacted operating system but they lost that now through moronic decisions.

There are so many things they could have done in the consumer sector but no... they want to mothball into a enterprise-centric, risk averse company.

Come on. Putting a square around a grid of icons doesn't suddenly make it modern.

Calling Android a grid of icons is ignoring exactly what made Android great. Android can be anything. Not only can a manufacturer take it and make it look and operate ANY way they want, the user can do the same simply by installing an app.

Sure, most Android phones are a grid of icons. For whatever reason people seem to prefer that. They don't have to be though. The UI is so flexible you can literally make an Android phone look and operate any way you want.

Personally, I have my most used apps pinned to my home screen with a fitness widget so I can easily see my activity for the day and a music widget so I can start and stop music quickly and easily. Notifications take care of everything else. No cluttering of randomly flipping images or gaudy colored squares. Just simple, quick and easy to use.

Microsoft has failed to develop live tiles further. Still no interactive tiles present. Also tablet mode has been forgotten? Fullscreen start screen is garbage on 10 compared to Windows 8.1. We still cannot select multiple tiles. We have to drag each tile one by one.

We have to admit that the live tiles thing is either love it or hate it...
But overall the live tile is good, just the design is not as attractive as the competitors. nowaday eye candy is such a important thing for average comsumer, MS really need to work out hard.
And yes, the smoothness of the OS must be good too.

Live tiles are merely a feature. A feature that, as it turns out not many people saw as a benefit.They are not the fault of Windows Mobile's failure, they simply didn't prove to have the benefit and draw users into the plaform. They are also not the future, merely a feature that benefits a limited subset of users.

I'm not sure how many people have been complaining about the Live Tiles, but I haven't met any of them. Like many have said, its' one of the unique features that keeps me using a Windows mobile device. As for what apps make use of the Live Tiles...most of them do. I mean there's just something awesome about being able to see the home screen picture of the person that sent you something on Facebook, or Facebook IM. All the MSN apps make great use of them and the UWP apps as well. They make the Apple and Android UI's look...well rather boring. Microsoft's biggest issue has always been marketability. For example, it's My Poeple app on Windows 10 is an amazing application but it's only Windows centric right now. Could you imagine the popularity if it was integrated with Facebook or Instagram. Everyone I've shown my rendition of Windows phone to has been intrigued. I think it's safe to say we know Live Tiles aren't the issue.

My Nokia 720 is still the coolest phone I've ever owned. Of course, when they took away the flipping tiles and the arty home screen in Windows 10 I stopped Windows Phone and started using iPhone ever since. Still missing the beautiful design though.

Tiles can be nice but are ugly when it's filled with all these colours and flipping constantly to gain your attention. It's too chaotic. I've been using it for years and sometimes I'll go to find something and I have trouble locating what app I want to launch. I'm sorry tiles can be good but they haven't changed much. Transparency and uniformity was a good attempt but no developer was forced to follow. Even MS didn't do their own tiles.

Live Tile's must always display the latest information, must have notifications for all apps, should be more interactive. Completely agree. But in my opinion, lack of apps and their updates are the reason why WP didn't succeed.

Really? I never heard ANYONE complain that live tiles were the reason Windows Phone/Mobile failed. MS was late to the game, never got apps, and rebooted too many times. End of story.

Live tiles are a nice feature but they don't always work or update, even in MS apps. What is better to me is the ability to resize the tiles and make them transparent so you can customize the look and functionality of your start screen.

Live Tiles a problem? Who even says that? What's appalling is that in 2017 we still have technologically advanced phones whose interface consists on endless grids of icons like it's still Windows 95. That is so sad to see. And it's what should change, not Live tiles, which bring a fresh approach on an interactive home screen.

You described none of the current platforms. I am not that familiar with iPhone, but I am quite sure the interface is more than just a grid of icons. Quick settings, widgets and notifications are easily accessible. Android and its Fully Interactive Live Tiles (widgets) certainly is a bit more than grid of icons.

Microsoft's version of live tiles are the exact opposite of interactive.

The live tiles and also the panoramic style of apps were ahead of its time. But people are too used to PC style icons and boxed apps. I found them really annoying and tiny. Panoramic really gave u that feeling of peeking through a window and you were looking at piece of paper on a mobile phone that u can scroll sideways.

People are too dumb and want to be a slave to what is BASIC. That is what u get with android and iphones. Basic grid icons. At that point, microsoft had to give in and make Live tiles DEAD and basic because even other developers didnt make their live tiles Alive. So they became giant lifeless box icons. Panoramic apps also disappeared. God I miss Windows phone 7 Design.

I love live tiles and of course the OS. You can slap a live tile looking interface/launcher on a lagdroid phone and it mostly works but it certainly isn't nearly as smooth. The iphone interface I find to be rather blah.

I'm a Microsoft enthusiast. Since long time.
Started with Windows 3.1, some Windows Pocket PC and Windows mobile 6 handsets, had Lumia 925, Lumia 1520, now Lumia 930. Own a Surface Book, Surface Pro, and many Windows 10 PCs.
I'm not a casual Microsoft user.
But I can say on Huawei P10 Lite with lagdroid 7 nougat like somebody calls it and there isn't any lag.
A small, big, company made a very good smartphone for just 280$. Glass everywhere, metallic frame, lot of os optimization, battery last 2 days!
I'm really impressed how smooth is the OS with a lot of app running.
The same can't be said for my 930.
You can clearly see the UI is running at lower FPS because it isn't fluid like the P10. Of course they have different hardware.
930 camera is far superior of course comparsd to P10 lite.
But in the last period the Lumia 930 crashed a lot of time.
Phone become hot and battery lasted 8 hours max of very light use.
Flash works randomly (software issue, not hardware). And apps were very slow to resume and to open.
Hard reset, reflashing original Windows 8.1 then 10 didn't help.
The OS has some bugs and flaws and it start being not stable and optimized.
I really don't care actually if I use Android. I need just a tool for my daily work to accomplish my objectives.
Actually Android is more stable and reliable for me.
Microsoft made a lot of bad decision, in terms of marketing, developing and customer satisfaction.
Now I have a malfunctioning 930, can't replace the battery, can't buy a new Lumia because they stopped selling them, and it don't worth the money because they are almost obsolete in terms of hardware and long term software updates and stability.
I'm an enthusiast but I don't want to be a fanboy.
I've already felt the pain seeing what Microsoft did to Windows mobile.
I couldn't buy another Lumia nowadays.
Because I've trusted Microsoft and supported them (Insider).

Switched again to Android, unfortunately. My 930 is not working correctly and I can't replace it with any Windows Phone.
I've bought a Huawei P10 lite. I miss live tiles a lot and integration of Cortana with Windows services and so on.
But... The apps are very nice and well done on Android.
The choice is endless.

I always thought that Cortana was superior and clearly it still is to Siri. But Google Assistant is, IMO, the best of the three. I've no experience with Amazon's Alexa, so I can't include it in my assessment.

If you like Live Tiles, wait until you see Fully Interactive Live Tiles! Android calls them widgets and they can do all sorts of things. You can scroll through your emails or messages. See your calendar and interact with it. Play, pause and skip tracks for your music player. Fully Interactive Live Tiles are amazing!

I've seen widgets. I even have a couple on pinned on my GS8. What's the big deal other than keeping another app open in the background so you can interact with it?? Seeing the info and then clicking to open the full app to interact with it, is a different, arguably better, approach.

It's a shame to waste so many words on such a dumb suggestion. Live Tiles were a neat idea in an excellent phone OS and user interface. None of that could overcome Microsoft's failure to commit to Windows Phone and non-existent marketing effort.

How old was that video on Human Interaction Group demonstration? I don't ever remember seeing Windows have such great functionality (In a production version I had)...It looks like that's what it was meant to have, but never totally had it. I could be wrong though. I do 100% agree, the problem was ALWAYS Microsoft. What MS successfuly did was give us great hope that something amazing, different, fun to use, & a great ecosystem was coming...They also gave Apple & Andriod some ideas to implement in their own OS's.

I still don't understand why they never really gave it their all for very long in the mobile space. It was like they were told not to give it 100%. I also wonder if people (Most consumers) don't want the tile concept. Maybe a few apps like email, social media, & texting be tiles...But the rest be some type of GUI eye candy icons.

Tiles were great, I enjoyed the concept, but everything being squared isn't exactly good graphic design for this use. I'm not saying it has to be exactly the same as iOS at all Even if the tiles were just subtely rounded & not so squared & flat that it would be more apealing to the consumers eye. The current iOS & Andriod design has become subtely more flattened, but not as much as MS. They are finding that happy medium...That 'just right' receipe.

I was 'all in' on the Tiles concept. I even brought my wife over to be totally 'Windows everything' - All devices.

Yes, you can customize it a lot, but you should have some of those more rounded shapes with more 'air' inbetween icons to be the first default start screen. People can then see more of what Windows can do. They get most of the screen filled with boxes by default when first getting the phone & the impression to the consumer can be, "I guess this is pretty much what it looks like" As Jason said, maybe if MS took the smart phone business for consumers more seriously in the beginning & tiles were really pushed out to define the market, people may have used it more.

But all of that is behind us now. MS mobile...on the phone...Is basically dead now. If MS comes out with a foldable device, it won't probably be what most consumers want - Maybe businesses...Maybe.

I wonder if someone ever sat down & tried to guesstimate how much money MS lost because of their lack of taking the consumer smart phone market (Esp taking on the iPhone) seriously. They have not only lost the consumer market war, it has bled over into the business world. They have lost both smartphone markets. It is slowly eating away from the consumer PC market as well by way of tablets (Using the same mobile iOS or Andriod as their phones) being able to perform many of the PC functions pretty well for most peoples needs.

This idea that they'll make a game changing device that is a tablet/computer first that has a telephony capability as a side feature isn't a game changer. It pretty much exists today. That's how I (and many others) mostly use their current phone anyway.

I love my Live Tiles! They're one of the big reasons that I'm still running my 950XL alongside my Galaxy S8 Active. I can't bring myself to fully switch over even with SquareHome2 installed and well-configured on the Android device (it's close, but not the same!), but the infamous "app gap" means I need to have the option to run those few apps I can't get on W10M right now.

So maybe the reason we haven't seen the exploding tiles or other major changes to the Start Screen/Menu is because of the "retrenching". Perhaps a majority of the engineering team is still busy folding the ARM-specific features from W10M into W10 proper. Once everything is truly running on one core with the adaptable CShell UI fully implemented, *then* we'll see new features. Why write the code for new stuff now when it will be discarded in the near future anyway? It's been a painful wait while the consolidation and rebuilding of the foundations happen, but I have a feeling that we'll see some of these features make their way in RS4 or RS5 with that work finally out of the way.

Live tiles are the best! When my employer forced me to give up my Lumia 950XL earlier this year, I was offered the choice of the iPhone 7 and the Galaxy S8. I tried the iPhone first and just hated that 10 year old static grid of icons with that great Apple innovation of a tiny badge with a number on it for e-mails. The Today screen on the iPhone at least gives some hint of at-a-glance information ala Live Tiles, but Apple won't let you use the Today screen as the default Start page. The total lack of freedom to customize the UI was why I ditched the iPhone. The Galaxy is a nice phone with a really cool screen. And because Android allows a lot more customization, this is the phone I've kept. I loaded all of Microsoft's services, ditched all of Google's, and found a widget that reads data on my home weather station and another with my upcoming calendar as my Start page. It isn't quite the same thing as on my Lumia, but it's mine. And being totally honest, I will confess that I'm delighted with how much more full featured some Android apps are than their Windows Mobile counterparts. Still, Live Tiles rock!

People also keep saying the app gap is a problem. Well it is now for sure, but if you look back at you app library over the course of all of those years we had a ton of essential apps for a while. I had all of the messaging and banking apps that I need except for my small credit union. We had, for example, Capital One, B of A, and Wells Fargo. If WM had continued to grow even at the slow rate it was going in the W8/W8.1 days we might even have more. At this point it is hard to be optimistic about Windows on Something Mobile. Still wishing that something eventually comes along though. I am currently using an iPhone and will look to Sailfish when it comes to Sony X sometime in October.

You named a whopping three banks. Now go look at the list of banking apps in the App Store and in Google Play. And out of curiosity, what is the name of your "small credit union"? I'd be curious to see if they offer an app on any platform.

Indeed the WP8.1 saw the best days for MS. It was quite close to other platforms in basic functionality. They had close to 4-5% of the market. All they needed was to gradually improve on it. By now they would have had 3 major yearly updates. They started to have more and more apps. The app gap was not so terrible anymore. All they needed was to keep pushing it. But no, they had to come with W10M and this great idea of UWP. Now their UWP is dead because without mobile there is no "universal". And because they implemented that on PC now the PC stands alone on that and the developers who invested in UWP got screwed, again. All 8 of them.

Would they further push WP they could have reached maybe a marketshare of 7-9%. That's not a lot but it's enough to keep the Nokia fabs going, maybe with a close to zero profit but not losing money either. Devs would keep some interest too. And then wait and hope the new day would bring some new opportunities and maybe their fate would have changed. At least they would BE in the market. Now they are nobodies. Yes, they still linger in the enterprise but I would not put too many bets on that horse either, long term.

Mark my word, in 10-15 years Microsoft will be in every business book as an incredible case study of gross mismanagement, lack of vision and a long streak of bad decisions. They will be a great example to teach students of how not to run an otherwise sound company into the ground.

Can someone wake me up when there's a new flagship or Surface Phone available? The mobile world is literally moving forward and this is all we have to talk about. I say "we" cause even though I left for Android I've been looking from afar waiting and hoping for something groundbreaking to happen. There are excellent choices on Android and the new LG V30 will likely be my next phone when available. Amd of course the iPhone is always in the conversation. I'm enjoying my time away but honestly I can't wait for Microsoft to just do something exciting.

P.S. I agree with this article. The live tile UI is still just gorgeous to look at and customize. I really do miss the OS but I won't settle for what it has become.

It's not live tiles, but there are those who don't like live tiles. They want a similar interface they are used to. Not having an option is main reason for wp failure. I like tiles but also like android home. Going to android from windows is like freedom as just like windows desktop yiu can have multiple home screens in Android and customize a lot. Where as windows phone 2 screens live tiles and apps. So locked. Only if they had allowed live tiles and multiple home screen to pin apps.

You and a dozen others. The issue is all those that don't have that one app they need to make their lives better. How about a Discover Card app, a Metro app, The local Supermarket Loyalty card app, a Starbucks app that has the same features as the iOS and Android ones, like mobile ordering. My Banking institution. I put up with the lack off apps I wanted, becuase I could find the apps I needed. That does get old though, even with the superior basic interface.

You must sit in your basement and do nothing while mobile. There are NO apps that I use on my iphone available on windows 10 mobile, if they are they are seriously outdated/non functioning, or webwrappers (not real mobile apps).

...And there were many mistakes. And there were multiple 'betrayals', if you will, against users and developers. Maybe even OEMS. Many people have lost faith in MS in the mobile space...Faith that possibly can never be rebuilt or never ever be what it could have been

I agree. I don't know how you justify releasing another mobile platform unless you really have something revolutionary. I bet they have some mobile projects going, but they will not see the light of day because there really isn't anywhere left to innovate.

Yeah...The layout and interface of the windows mobile OS was AWESOME. the 1020 was AWESOME. The total lack of 1st party apps, wearables and useable accessories, NOT AWESOME. Too bad the nutty one never gave two ***** about windows10mobile. It was going to gain traction, but no marketing at all, and pretty well killing it when they backpedaled on the DENIM update, the PROJECTS for the apps, etc....Shame too. the 1020 was AMAZING HARDWARE.

I don't understand how any Windows fans can be all for a locked down platform like Windows phone. Being locked down and inflexible is not what made Windows great. The issue wasn't the Tile interface itself, it is the Tiles being the only interface available.

Dalydose has forgotten what made Windows great. For decades the biggest advantage Windows fans held above Apple was choice. Now they think Microsoft should go the Apple route. I don't understand that thinking, especially since it hasn't worked at all to this point.

I haven't forgotten anything. Pre "Windows Phone" Windows Mobile was like the desktop and that got beat in sales. It's a phone, not a computer. Considering the small percentage of people who change the UI/Launcher even on Android, that doesn't seem to me to be the root (pun intended) of the problem.

Sales numbers indeed show that something isn't working. There's no indication that it is because of the UI or it being the only UI. Isolating UI, one can see that sales are possible with either the iOS or Android model.

Windows Mobile 6 was leapfrogged but did good for its time. You ignore my point everytime. It wasn't user customization that really mattered, it was manufacturer customization. Nearly every Android phone has been customized by the manufacturer, even the Pixel isn't using stock Android!

Could Samsung could have become the behemoth they are today if they used Windows phone or were forced to use "stock" Android 2.0?

I'm using Android now and the interface totally sucks. I have to use 'widgets' to see my schedule, messages and important emails, flipping pages along the way. With windows live tiles, I tracked my schedule, messages and multiple email accounts at a glance all on one screen. The apps were clunkier, but the experience was so much more productive and elegant.

But will the Andromeda be a consumer os or just for business. I've started to believe that windows 10 mobile is the last consumer windows mobile os for the next 3, 4 years. I don't believe that anyone needs the full power of the windows in his pocket (except for some pros). That's why I believe that Microsoft shouldn't have retrenched.

The problem wasn't Live Tiles being the UI choice, the issue was Live Tiles being the only UI choice. There was no way for consumers, or more importantly, manufacturers to change the UI if they didn't like it or wanted to have their own identity.

Windows was always stronger than Apple because it gave it's users choice. There was always a wide range of hardware and experiences available on Windows and Microsoft's users liked that. Going the exact opposite route with Windows phone and chasing Apple was the mistake. Microsoft and their poor strategy including mandating the Live Tile interface was the issue.

I personally didn't mind the Tiles so much until I would see a Facebook post or news article I was interested in and then couldn't find it. So frustrating. After that frustration happening regularly, I learned to ignore the Tiles. To me, the worst part of the UI was the single column app drawer. Combined with the slow moving nature of WP, scrolling forever wasn't a pleasant experience.

Android copied WinXP(or any Win) philosophy and got hugely successful. Just like WinXP. Then MS says: or, no, we are not going to go the trodden and proved way, we will go some new imaginary way and they FLOP. It's both ironic and moronic.

You get it right the problem is Microsoft, but more because Microsoft was never perceived as "cool" but instead as an "evil" company who wants to enlave us in propietary walled garden (Like Apple does, but they have cool factor so they´re good) and spy on us to sell our data (Like Google does but they´re cool too)

I wonder if having literally a dozen backdoors baked in had anything to do with that. FBI, CIA, NSA, police, the military, the government, teachers, dentists, nurses, Vietnam veterans, hobos - every category you name seems to have had their little backdoor into every windows system. *laughing in linux

While I agree with the article that the Live Tiles themselves weren't the cause of the failure, their unfamiliarity probably was somewhat of a factor. The icons on iOS and Android are what Windows has had since for the last 25 years or more. In fact, Microsoft wasn't able to shake that, although they tried.

For myself, I never did like Live Tiles that much. I like Windows phone for other reasons, but they were a negative in my mind. I found them to either take up too much space or show arbitrary and sometimes out-of-date information. I didn't just look at them for information and then go on my way. I always ended up opening the app anyway. Sometimes it was because I couldn't get back to the information I had seen, and sometimes it was because I didn't trust it.

the live tile is the best Ui design thing for the smartphones. I really fan of it. That is one of the reason that I still using windows phone. I dont need to open app to get latest news. Just unlock and take a look at the start screen. Thats it. Thats quite time saver for me. Even ios and android users loves the tile based design as I see. The major problem of windows phone is Microsoft. They did not support well their platform. They did not keep their words. They pulled off the windows mobile from its road. The windows mobile became enterprise mobile os. And as the result developers runs out from windows mobile platform. The live tile is the last thing to discussing about the windows mobile's failure.

The tiles and the UI was good.. but the main problem with windows phone was applications.. the developers were getting too much restriction in developing a new app or costomize the existing one than it was on android or ios which became a big reason for lack of games and app in windows store hence users as well as developers shifted to other platforms..

The app gap is a symptom of poor sales. People saw Windows phones on the shelf and didn't choose to buy them. Live Tiles are front and center. After years of failure, keeping anything from the old platform would be a mistake.

I love live tiles but personally think they're placed in the wrong part of the Windows 10 PC operating system. It works on phones because the Start screen is the default screen, so live tiles are always seen, but on PCs, the Start menu is rarely seen and thus live tiles are wasted. On PCs, live tiles should be on the desktop.

I think Microsoft just got caught up too much on the "Start" name, thinking that because live tiles were on the part they called "Start" (the Start Screen) on phones, they should also put the live tiles on the thing called "Start" (the Start Menu) on PC. Unforuntaely, the Start on phones and Start on PCs operate very differently. On phones, it's always there; on PCs, it's hidden until summoned. On PCs, it's the desktop that's visible most of the time so the widget-like functionality of live tiles is more useful there.

We didn't see a backlash with Windows Phones because people weren't forced to buy them. They just chose not to buy them in the first place.

Users didn't have the luxury with Windows 8. There are no real alternatives so there was plenty of feedback. It isn't a stretch to think they had the same issue with Windows phones.

"...users didn't like Live Tiles..."

You seem to have invalidated your article! If they didn't like Live Tiles on desktop, why would they want them on their phone? Sales certainly show they didn't like something and we have direct evidence of that something for Windows 8.

"On PCs, live tiles should be on the desktop." They can be, use tablet mode. The drawback is your apps become full/split screened. Even if the tiles were on the desktop, they would be obscured by running applications most of the time. I'm not sure there is a great solution for stuff like this. You wouldn't want them popping to the foreground when something happened. They seem OK in start for me. I find it much easier to find and select the next application I want to run from the tiles than from scrolling the apps list. Easier still just to type into search.

NO, NO, NO! The tiles are much more accessible from the start button. It's a pain having to get back to the desktop every time you want to open an app. Much easier to put the ones you want in the live tile menu. I would say the problem is people sat on Windows 7 so long they never tried to learn Windows 10.

I remember a Windows Phone 7 ad years ago where the catchphrase was something along the lines of being a phone that you didn't have to look at as much so you can get back to real life. I remember one with a parent at their kid's soccer game, quickly glancing down, seeing what they needed, and back up while other parents stared at their phones. I remember people making fun of it: why would you want a phone that you don't want to look at for long? I on the other hand loved the idea of a phone that makes my life better rather than a phone that takes over my life pressing Home, app icon, Home, scroll through 3 pages of apps, app icon, Home... Same reason I loved BlackBerry 10 with the Hub and all its swipe gestures. The app icon paradigm is simple but wildly inefficient and I look forward to that dying sometime soon.

Pretty sure it failed because Microsoft kept changing the supported languages over and over, pretty much asking devs to write their apps on a language and then having them rewrite them over and over and over again. nobody has time for that, hence no apps

I honestly think they have people internally sabotaging them in mobile so either Apple or Google came out on top. How could such a rich company and experienced in building operating systems win. Just absolutely crazy to me

As someone that one might call an enthusiast (I've lost track of how many WPs I've purchased), I used to love the idea of Live Tiles. The problem is that Live Tiles never evolved. We never got new sizes besides the current three. I remember it was mentioned that we'd be able to open a Live Tile straight to the article/information posted on the tile, however, I don't think that feature was ever rolled out. Same for media playback, as well. Live Tiles is a great concept to begin with. Many of us think it would be cool to use an app without opening it first. Unfortunately, Live Tiles haven't made any significant changes since the WP7 days and have been thoroughly outpaced by Android widgets.

Absolutely agree, the tile interface was so clean looking and provided information at a glance when it came out. But less and less apps made use of it and they never evolved so it just became quicker to open the app to do what you wanted. No different than iOS or android.

What a stupid article title. It's failing because they stopped ******* supporting it. Surely they learned lessons about coming from behind in a market with the console wars with PlayStation and Xbox. Don't know why they couldn't look back at the lessons learned from that. Probably ******* old shareholders saying to stop it because they can't learn something new. Balmer was clearly just bad as a CEO for Microsoft. Satya is doing a good job but for **** sakes every day they are not persuing mobile or continuing to support mobile is going to cost them more in the long run. It's going to lose them revenue in other areas of there business or just generally make big business think twice about big investments in any new products now because of there deals with NYPD and others like it in the media

This. Even if Live Tiles were unique and interesting, Microsoft didn't do anything with them. They seem to work worse now than in WP7 and several years later they have no new functionality to speak of.

Offcourse the problem isn't Live Tiles. The OS is and was great. The UI was really great with the hubs and live tiles.

The whole problem was that Microsoft didn't even try to market and sell the platform to the consumers. The consumers have and had no issues with WP7, WP8 or W10M at all, most of them didn't even know it existed. That was the whole problem, from beginning to the end.

There is plenty to have for selling cheap phones. SnapChat doesn't care if the phone is cheap or expensive, they just want a lot of USERS. Carriers don't make a ton of profit on phones cheap or expensive, it's all about the service to them.

I'd have to look it up, but I'm guessing the majority of Android phones in use are not the flagships.

In 2010 the main apps were what Google brought to the table. Email, Calendar, YouTube. Browser. You could live with basic productivity extensions, in 2010.

I already told you that I'm not playinng fetch with your codescending question mode of dialog. You think you already know the answer, thus you are baiting, so you can go on your obsession with UI customization. No thanks, I'm not going to open that door for you. You like playing whack-a-mole. You talk about saying that MS spent enough marketing. When someone points out that this isn't likely true, you pivot to questioning about how much Samsung spent on Windows Phone. You only see paths that lead you to the customization mantra. Even on that you go from people can't customize like Android because of launchers and widgets to it being that OEMs can't customize like they want to. The constant topic jumping is tiring, but then I guess people give up and you claim some sort of "victory"??

I've been using Android for just over a year now (just got the Galaxy S8). I do miss live tiles so much. Windows Phone is a much better mobile OS. I don't really care for Android's widgets since there is no standard design theme for them. Some are just flat out ugly or just not that useful.

I miss my Windows phone and do hope someday Microsoft will be back in the game.

Yeah, it's great. Very unfortnately we cannot redesign the notifications, quicksettings and settings on Android, so they still look ugly. But the start, you can grow it by using GlanceNow! and Launcher10 to have it almost feel like home.

At a glance is definitely underrated.... I love the start on windows desktop too. I was forced an iphone for work... so it's kinda good that way to get exposure to that side of things and well work apps that I need once in a while. Where's my back button! ;)

I have a Nokia Lumia Icon with Windows 8.1 on it. I love it because of the live tiles, and especially the resizable tiles. Being able to size things in order of importance is something I love. I hate iPhones and Androids BECAUSE they DON'T have Windows-style tiles.

These articles used to be a good read when Microsoft had a fighting chance and seemed like maybe they would put up a fight. But Jason has been beating a dead horse for over 2 years now. I enjoyed the layout and fluidity of the windows phone system....but seriously, what apps if any took advantage of the live tiles? To me the only ones were the stock ticker or weather....and anytime I pulled it out to look, it would sit on the one "page?" of information that I didn't want to see, such as the S&P instead of the Dow or the forecast 3 days out instead of tomorrow. I'd have to open the app anyways, every single time.

As to the best part of the start menu being the tiles, are you serious?? I don't know a single person that liked the full screen menu and all those stupid tiles. Icons would be way better for most I imagine, the live tiles take up way too much space and I have to resize them down just to fit on the screen, don't want to be scrolling through the start menu.

But really Jason, move on with life already. Your articles have been just rehashing the same info and "Surface Phone" that microsoft refuses to acknowledge for way too long. At least make the articles shorter. Bullet points, not paragraphs ;-)

"I don't know a single person that liked the full screen menu and all those stupid tiles." Might I introduce you to a majority of the respondents here, and me as well. I find the abiltity to glance at the start screen and get a wealth of information exceptionally useful. In many cases I don't need to go farther immediately. I find the density of information much greater than on my Android phone with widgets. You can only fit so many before the displayed information starts to suffer. Most weather widgets take the full width and a 5th of the screen, where a medium live tile will do. Live tiles can be intelligently re-sized to allow more info space for those apps that deserve it, and small sizes for those that only need to be launchers/shortcuts. iOS is of course useless in this respect, offerring only a badge to show things have happened that may or may not need attention. If you are looking for shortcut density, the iPhone 7+ gets 28 icons on a page (counting the dock), my Nexus 6 (nearly a tablet), fits 24, the Pixel, 30 (with dock) no widgets. My Lumia 950XL could have 104 shortcuts on the start screen, before scrolling. Small tiles 8x13. These are as big as the icons on Android and iOS devices, and as useful with badges. I can get 24 and the tops of 4 more if they are all medium tiles. Those actually provide useful info. I can even have folders within which the individual app tiles show badges, rather than one for the whole folder. Both Android and iOS have incorporated a Today-ish screen to the left of the home screen to provide a better insight into relevent events/activities. I keep looking for the switch to bring those screens up by default to make those platforms as immediately useful as the live tiles on my WP.

Then you've never met me or my wife. We both LOVE the original Windows 8 Start Screen and we both have Windows 10 configured with the full, tile-only, Start menu. If you want to play this game, I think you're "stupid" for not seeing the ingenuity and usefulness of the tiles. So, bite me.

give a try to SquareHome2 as the launcher. You don't have a full WP experience, but you're getting pretty close to it. I mean, the live tiles are there, functional, and I feel it does offer even more flexibility than WP. I've been a WP user for several years and still love my Lumia 920, and never was able to get used to the more limited functionality of the icon grid OSes (Apple/Android) until I found SquareHome2 on Android. Now I have a productive and functional phone again.

That's been my experience too with Android. Everything seems half baked, particularly in design and sometimes functionality. There is a unspoken polish in WP that you don't notice until you leave...which is why I came back. Rocking my 1520 and backup 950, while the Note 6 and i6s+ sit in the drawer.

It works for every app. It does not drain your battery. It can be resized to the size you need, not the App-Dev thinks. And in the end, Tiles use the space on screen much more efficient due to the different sizes. (i can have 8 unimportant apps in one row, or 2 large ones, or 4 middle ones, each app the size i need, not all uniformed bubbles with no information and a lot of space in between.
If you have an android, try Launcher 10.http://imgur.com/Rf7oujI

I have a Windows phone right here. Doesn't seem to have a Live Tile for every app and I have to make the Tiles big and waste space just so I can see some random information that I cannot interact with or act on. Hopefully whatever random information they show is easy to find!

Finding an app is really frustrating as the app drawer is a single column and very inefficient. I cannot stand using the thing. Feels like you are moving in slow motion and everything is held back from you.

Battery life may have been a concern several years ago, but that has been addressed. Most widgets are also resizeable, very few have I found that aren't. The big thing about widgets is the interactivity. You aren't stuck with random info, you can scroll through pictures, directly select emails or calendar events, start and stop your music.

Live Tiles just feel like useless widgets. Even if they do happen to show you something interesting, there is nothing you can do with it other than open the app and hope you can find it. After not being able to find that Facebook post or news article a few times, I stopped paying attention to them at all.

If Live Tiles were actually great, there is nothing stopping Android apps from recreating a Live Tile widget. They don't do this because Live Tiles are pointless.

Actually I agree. I've long been an advocate of Windows on mobile phones (my favourite being WP8.1), but I don't see what makes Live Tiles special compared with Android widgets. Most widgets are resizeable, and in fact they offer far more sophisticated interaction that Live Tiles.

So, can someone explain what the big deal is with Live Tiles? I still haven't got it.

I'd bet that the majority of people here who continue to push the "live tiles are better" narrative have never really made the effort to customize the Android interface. What I loved about WinMo wasn't so much the live tiles but rather the smoothness of the OS. The live tiles were, to me, little more than an attempt to differentiate WinMo from the "wall of icons" approach offered by iOS and vanilla Android.

Widgets use battery. I have a weather widget that use GPS and Internet...obviously. It's a farce to pretend that Widgets. Also if you are controlling other apps with that widget, the other app is running in the background. That's battery life.

I'd love to see a user study about how many people using the widgets for more than just viewing information. I know YOU will say that YOU do, but I'm wondering about the masses. I imagine that they are clicking to open the full app vs looking at lower rez photos, inside of a small window.

Live Tiles are a balance of functionality and efficiency. I'm not sure they are pointless because bleached says so. Android apps that don't have widgets just go for the sea of icons thing because that's what everyone else is doing. But I get it. You think your user experience is the universal one and anything else is...pointless. I'm just not sure why it's so much fun for you to constantly repeat the same old complaints. It doesn't seem like a great use of time.

No, I agree with you. People don't actually use widgets or Live Tiles. I never said they did. They are both quite useless to most people. I use them occasionally but wouldn't really miss them.

I am just pointing out that Live Tiles are gimped, less useful widgets. Neither one is a mainstream feature that any normal consumer is looking for and claiming it was some magical feature that set Windows apart is incorrect. It is much easier to make the argument that forcing them on the user (as we both agree users are interested in customizing their devices) was a mistake. Android widgets are basically useless too, but they are hidden for the most part and need to be added manually.

The backlash to Windows 8 is a good example of Live Tiles being directly scorned by consumers. If people hated them so much on their PCs, why do you think they would want them on their phone?

Such a huge advantage that people bought even though people didn't buy them and their was a giant backlash against Windows 8? Microsoft even had to distance themselves from Windows 8, skipping 9 entirely! Where is this advantage you speak of? I see no metric that supports your claim.

Gawd, you are just on a mission and will say anything that supports your agenda.
The Windows 8 backlash was because most people didn't have touchscreens on their laptops and desktops and the Tiles UI was seen as a touch UI.

Disagree completely. MS had market share only in the race to the bottom. Had they stayed the course, they'd just have been throwing good money after bad, because the app developers simply weren't there. The fate of WinMo was sealed before Nadella became the honcho. And a Surface Phone or any other disruptive hardware approach won't make a lick of difference if the app ecosystem continues to be so paltry. The MS/Nokia hardware was excellent, but it simply didn't matter. Nowadays, all hardware is pretty much excellent, so MS was right, IMO, to focus on their core strength - business apps like Office, and forget about beating their heads against the wall of the consumer space. That ship has sailed and it ain't coming back, no matter what the Surface Phone or the "cellular PC" brings to the table.

Nope. Not Nadella. It was already over before he came along.
They sat on the old Windows Mobile WAY too long. By the time WP7 came along, it was already a 2 player market. I dont think MS ever really had a shot. Buyers already felt forced into Windows PCs and didnt want the same for their phones.