22:26 < GPT> thermoplyae: discussion at Traxus Project about merger with Pfhorpedia. Ecpeterson said he might ask here for a tie-breaker, so I was just wondering about how far that had gotten.
22:26 < treellama> ecpeterson is a lamer
22:27 < thermoplyae> i'm ecpeterson, and i hadn't asked
22:27 < thermoplyae> what do you think, guys
22:27 < GPT> oh
22:27 < thermoplyae> decide the future of Traxus
22:27 < RyokoTK> uh Pfhorpedia sucks balls
22:27 < treellama> where is the merge going to happen?
22:27 < treellama> I don't like pfhorpedia, and I distrust wikia
22:27 < thermoplyae> i don't know, here or there or not at all
22:27 < RyokoTK> the top article on Pfhorpedia is the stupid Sfiera.
22:27 < thermoplyae> they're all options
22:27 < GPT> RyokoTK: it's not my fault that's the page people view the most
22:27 then whose fault is it
22:28 < GPT> RyokoTK: "Top Content" means "pages people view the most"
22:28 < RyokoTK> oh no kidding
22:28 < RyokoTK> thanks a lot, Jimbo Wales
22:28 < blusock> so then its ppl's fault
22:28 < thermoplyae> content isn't really the issue
22:28 < thermoplyae> since if there's a merger all the content will end up in the same place
22:28 < thermoplyae> it's more where and why
22:28 < RyokoTK> yes but then Sfiera would be the top article on Traxus too -_-
22:28 < blusock> unless theres nothing better to look at, so all the ppl look at Sfiera
22:29 < blusock> what is that, btw
22:29 < thermoplyae> a pfhor ship, can't remember which
22:29 < RyokoTK> Pfhor goddess, apparently.
22:29 < GPT> blusock: the first game... and a half... have level pages with synopses, waiting for people with more time on their hands to write up trivia, walkthroughs, etc.
22:29 < RyokoTK> And they named a ship after it.
22:30 < RyokoTK> Anyway, I like Pfhorpedia's layout, kind of, and it's more visually appealing than Traxus.
22:30 < RyokoTK> But I abhor Wikia
22:30 < thermoplyae> there's a significant difference between what the two of us mean by 'synopsis'
22:30 < blusock> lol GPT im not pickin fights
22:30 < RyokoTK> and I don't like that particular variant of wiki, I prefer Traxus's
22:30 u dont hav to explain tome
22:30 < RyokoTK> GPT: compare Pfhorpedia to Wikipedia.
22:30 < GPT> blusock: k
22:30 < RyokoTK> In terms of interface, etc, not content
22:31 < treellama> mediawiki is definitely ftw
22:31 s.b.o./wiki uses it too
22:31 < treellama> yes
22:31 oh, it's a skin
22:31 < treellama> really
22:31 < treellama> why is it so ugly then?
22:31 < treellama> oh
22:31 < treellama> skin
22:31 * Hentai_Sama wonders if " :C " has its own entry on pfhorpedia
22:32 < GPT> they meant for it to be more Web 2.0... I didn't like it at first either, but I ended up switching and got used to it.
22:32 < RyokoTK> what's not Web 2.0 about Wikipedia?
22:32 < treellama> Pfhorpedia does have the advantage of having "thong" in its URL
22:32 < GPT> RyokoTK: no idea... maybe all the developers use Mac OS X?
22:33 < thermoplyae> heh
22:33 < treellama> but, traxus wins because it doesn't have a freaking verizon ad on the front page :C
22:33 seriously, ads vs no ads should be the biggest deciding factor of where it could live
22:33 if only someone would donate an ad-free wiki!
22:34 < RyokoTK> Or we could just use traxus.
22:34 < RyokoTK> Which has no ads.
22:34 < treellama> wait, someone did
22:34 < RyokoTK> Or sbo/wiki, which has no ads.
22:34 < thermoplyae> so apparently there's some bias towards traxus
22:34 < thermoplyae> maybe it would be useful to the discussion for you to say why traxus is inadequate, gpt
22:34 < treellama> yeah, but it tries to be more engine and content-development centric
22:37 < RyokoTK> why aren't all three merged?
22:37 < GPT> Traxus is lacking in promotion, mainly. a Google for "marathon" turns up Pfhorpedia way before Traxus, IIRC, as well as many other Google searches. there's also more promotion for people who haven't heard of the game itself (and there are always people willing to start playing games, even old ones) from other Wikia that have "partnerships," as well as numerous other editors who would be willing to help out *without* paying the game... an' stuff.
22:37 < treellama> other people use wikia?
22:37 < GPT> -_-
22:37 < treellama> it just seems like a pointless ad-farm
22:37 < RyokoTK> lol
22:38 < RyokoTK> no wikia is actually legit
22:38 < treellama> hmm
22:38 < treellama> I hate gamers
22:38 < thermoplyae> searching on marathon catches a bit of the searches
22:39 < thermoplyae> on the other hand, searching on the quoted string "waterloo waterpark" brings up traxus quickly. still not as quickly as pfhorpedia, but the difference is considerably less drastic
22:39 < thermoplyae> or other marathon-related things
22:39 < treellama> I got real wikipedia first when I searched
22:39 < treellama> which links to traxus
22:40 < GPT> Pfhorpedia comes up before Wikpedia for "waterloo waterpark," and probably others as well.
22:40 < treellama> schedule P
22:41 < thermoplyae> it does, but again, the difference isn't as great as you make it out to be
22:41 < thermoplyae> regardless, yes, it's something we could be doing better
22:41 so's traxus
22:41 < GPT> it's the *eighth* on the page, yes... but it's there =P
22:41 < thermoplyae> sixth result
22:42 < thermoplyae> okay apparently we're searching differently
22:42 < treellama> honestly, how much could rank in search engine matter?
22:42 * GPT adds quotes
22:42 < RyokoTK> being first really helps
22:42 < treellama> I assume google updates once in a while, so if one goes away
22:43 < GPT> thermoplyae: without quotes (which is how a lot of people search), there's a page in difference. *with* quotes, the first result says "Halo." anyway, getting off the detailed bit... rank in search engines matters quite a bit--I'm usually more inclined to click in order... but I don't speak for everyone. =P
22:44 < thermoplyae> sure, i'm not saying we're beating you, i'm saying it's not the issue you make it out to be
22:44 * Bartman007 picks the first link that appears to be relative.
22:44 < thermoplyae> i would add quotes once i saw all the results for towns named waterloo
22:44 < treellama> you give other surfers too much credit
22:44 < thermoplyae> probably
22:44 < treellama> this guy I work with couldn't google his way out of a paper bag :(
22:45 < treellama> he'll look for stuff for 15 minutes and I type in one phrase and it's in the first page of hits
22:45 < Hentai_Sama> http://ko-chan.org/tg/src/1201777528137.jpg
22:45 < Hentai_Sama> http://ko-chan.org/tg/src/1201777224250.jpg
22:46 < Wrkncacnter> ok guys, pfhorpedia should have nothing but a link to traxus and BAM, all problems solved
22:46 well, you say pfhorpedia is getting all the attention so people will go there and link to the better site
22:47 < Hentai_Sama> http://ko-chan.org/tg/src/1201777393370.jpg
22:47 < Wrkncacnter> of course, i'm not big on real solutions
22:49 < treellama> eh, you know my opinion: someone is donating his time and bandwidth so people who use the wiki don't have to put up with ads or other crap that comes with wikia, why not use it
22:49 < treellama> but I don't use either wiki, so that counts for nothing :)
22:51 < Wrkncacnter> yeah, i don't care at all
22:51 < GPT> so people don't have to put up with ads? I absolutely agree. other crap? IMO, you mean other plusses... I've encountered nothing wrong with Wikia beyond the ads...
22:51 < Wrkncacnter> but if at all possible, i'd like to start a fight
22:51 * GPT smacks Wrkncacnter with a small halibut
22:51 < treellama> it's got all that stuff about other games and things on it, at least it did when I visited
22:51 < treellama> I'd hardly call those pluses
22:51 oh, in the Sidebar... Pfhorpedia links to nine wikis... and nine wikis link to Pfhorpedia. win all around for the ten wikis in question.
22:52 * blusock clubs GPT with a 4ft salmon
22:53 < treellama> there are a couple in the sidebar, a few in a big ugly banner underneath, and then a ton more in links underneath that
22:53 < treellama> then some "partners", "wikia messages" etc
22:53 < treellama> vs traxus, which just has marathon stuff
22:53 < Wrkncacnter> sounds lame
22:53 < GPT> treellama: the ugly banner underneath is only on the Main Page. the Sidebar link to nine others chosen by moi for maximum promotion stuffle. the other crap has expanded slightly... but the seekret new skin they're working on fixes that, IIRC.
22:53 < Bartman007> yeah, quite lame --> 19:53:55 vs traxus, which just has marathon stuff
22:54 * Bartman007 ducks
22:54 < treellama> it's possible I see all those because I didn't create an account
22:54 < GPT> Bartman007: quite lame that Traxus *just* has Marathon stuff? if that's what you're saying, you duck for good reason.
22:55 < treellama> I clicked on another page, and "DIGIMON WIKI" and "DEVIL MAY CRY" are still there
22:55 < GPT> O_O
22:55 DIGIMON!!!!!
22:55 < Bartman007> err, salmon
22:55 < treellama> I mean, this is a joke right?
22:55 lower right hand corner
22:56 < treellama> "wikia spotlight"
22:56 < Wrkncacnter> pfhorpedia should be ashamed of itself
22:56 < GPT> ah.
22:56 < GPT> more advertising... which will be reduced with the new skin.
22:56 < treellama> yeah, first thing I'd do if I set up a generic game wiki is filter out "digi"
22:56 < Wrkncacnter> haha
22:56 < doy> seriously, though, why would we use wikia if we have the resources to do it on our own
22:57 < Wrkncacnter> ^
22:57 < treellama> dude ^^
22:57 < GPT> you get moar promotionz with Wikia.
22:57 < Wrkncacnter> show me statistics
22:57 < treellama> I can't wait to see tons of digimon fans streaming into the channel
22:58 < treellama> there's a third option: we could set up a wiki on marathon.bungie.org
22:58 < doy> you keep going on about this promotion thing
22:58 < treellama> that's where one really belongs, after all
22:58 < treellama> then you guys could both put your stuff there
22:58 < treellama> no problems with promotion
22:58 < Wrkncacnter> i don't want to attract digimon users
22:59 actually even Tycho doesn't like Wrkncacnter
22:59 < doy> then why is there a link for them
22:59 -!- blusock has left chat #alephone ("AdVictoriam").
22:59 < Bartman007> GPT: I don't think they exist in the first place.
22:59 < GPT> doy: there's a link *there* because that's a randomized spotlight.
23:00 < treellama> so the doom link is hand selected?
23:00 < doy> so wikia has ads and digimon links
23:00 < Wrkncacnter> i like treellama's 3rd option
23:00 < GPT> treellama: yes, I chose to partner with Doom and Duke Nukem because they're both older FPSs.
23:00 < Wrkncacnter> you should partner with NitsLoch
23:01 < treellama> I didn't really think the appeal of Marathon is that it is old
23:01 < treellama> does nitsloch have a wikia?
23:01 < Wrkncacnter> no, i was just hoping to reject the partnership
23:02 < treellama> :(
23:02 < GPT> you were hoping to reject it?
23:02 < GPT> why'd you suggest it if you're just gonna reject it when I agree?
23:02 < Wrkncacnter> i like to annoy people
23:02 < treellama> GPT: he's pure evil
23:02 < treellama> ever since he escape that sun he's been causing nothing but chaos
23:02 < treellama> *escaped
23:03 < GPT> Wrkncacnter: so you *don't* want me to link to you? alright, then.
23:03 < Wrkncacnter> what would you link to?
23:03 < GPT> wrk.treellama.org
23:03 < Wrkncacnter> you should just have a link to this http://wrk.treellama.org/images/NL-shit.png
23:03 < treellama> there should seriously be a loch wiki
23:03 -!- LegacyTyphoon (n=bmaish@c-76-113-69-142.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) has joined chat #alephone.
23:03 -!- ChanServ has set mode +v LegacyTyphoon .
23:03 < treellama> pooooooop
23:03 < GPT> Wrkncacnter: I was thinking a less specific link... so people could find that on their own.
23:03 < Hentai_Sama> leggy!
23:04 < treellama> oh, hi legs
23:04 < LegacyTyphoon> hey
23:04 < Wrkncacnter> oh i know
23:04 < Wrkncacnter> but NL has nothing to do with marathon, so you shouldn't have the link at all
23:04 < Wrkncacnter> it was just a joke
23:04 < treellama> NL could link to Duke Nukem!
23:04 < Wrkncacnter> omgz
23:05 < Bartman007> treellama: are we playing Six Degrees of Duke Nukem?
23:06 < treellama> I'm playing "troll #alephone"
23:06 < LegacyTyphoon> hooray
23:06 < treellama> I don't know what YOU'RE playing
23:07 < treellama> slave: I can add another album to tto for low-res/high color textures if you're sick of imagesack
23:07 < Slave> please :)
23:07 < treellama> ok, I'll get on that tomorrow
23:07 < Slave> did you think those ones were any good?
23:07 < Slave> that I posted?
23:08 < treellama> sure, I don't know how much use low res ones are though
23:08 < treellama> low-res/infinity are good for patches
23:08 < treellama> high-res/high color are good for scenarios
23:08 < Slave> yeah
23:08 < treellama> not sure what you do with low-res/high color
23:08 < Slave> well, I might just end up making them hi-res/high colour
23:09 < Slave> once I can
23:09 < treellama> ah
23:09 < Slave> (am good enoguh with photoshop)
23:09 < treellama> heh
23:09 < treellama> I'm going to run, now that I shut down wiki discussion completely :D
23:09 < Slave> okay, bye
23:09 < treellama> later dudes
23:09 < thermoplyae> thanks, dude
23:09 -!- treellama has left chat #alephone ("Well, isn't this ugly").
23:10 < thermoplyae> i've stopped dicking around on the playstation, so if you want to have a serious discussion, gpt, we can attempt again
23:10 < GPT> k...
23:10 < thermoplyae> so, modulo trolling, the rest of the community seems to care about the ads more than anything else
23:11 < GPT> yeah... ads are the big deal... which makes no sense as there aren't even any ads on the page I'm looking at. WTF!?
23:12 < RyokoTK> I don't want to go to /other/ parts of Wikia when I look at Pfhorpedia.
23:12 < RyokoTK> I want to look at Pfhorpedia.
23:12 < thermoplyae> i see three on the page i'm looking at, plus two inter-wikia advertisements
23:12 < Wrkncacnter> pfhorpedia is trying to get me to use progressive
23:12 < Wrkncacnter> and it's quite large
23:12 < thermoplyae> which i guess isn't a lot in terms of quantity, except for how the page is small and so it's sort of high density
23:12 < thermoplyae> oh, hey, i missed a bunch
23:13 < doy> i mean, just the amount of the page dedicated to non-content things is irritating
23:13 < thermoplyae> more like 15 ads, counting little text things at the bottom
23:13 < RyokoTK> what doy said
23:13 < RyokoTK> Traxus is very much to-the-point.
23:13 < RyokoTK> In fact, the only thing that leads away from traxus.jjaro.net is the powered by Mediawiki icon in the lower right.
23:14 < doy> which is, you know, editable
23:14 < doy> since we run the server
23:14 < RyokoTK> right
23:14 < RyokoTK> And it's a fair admission anyway, imo.
23:14 < GPT> well, when they finalize the new skin they're working on... on the prototype, I see one ad on the top and a distinct lack of Wikia Spotlights... that should help a bit, eh?
23:15 < thermoplyae> maybe. hard to say without seeing it
23:15 < thermoplyae> apart from that on the short list of cons on the relevant traxus page, there's a question of canon-only policy
23:15 < thermoplyae> that seems pretty serious
23:16 < RyokoTK> I really dislike the deplorable state of the TGI guides on Traxus.
23:16 < GPT> I've replied to that issue on the Community Portal or whatever it is on Traxus... I'm willing to change that.
23:16 < RyokoTK> Especially since there are remarkably exhaustive guides with decorated images on the TGI website.
23:17 < RyokoTK> thermoplyae: why limit it to canon only?
23:17 < thermoplyae> i don't know, i wouldn't. and he says he's willing to change, to an extent
23:18 < GPT> RyokoTK: old habit from Halopedia, where most the users frankly aren't smart enough to distinguish canon from non-canon.
23:18 < RyokoTK> well, the Marathon community is probably smarter than the Halo community
23:18 < RyokoTK> even factoring in the retard farm at the Pfhorums
23:19 < RyokoTK> just have Category:Canon and Category:Noncanon
23:19 < GPT> which is why I'd be willing to change that policy.
23:19 < GPT> I'd rather have a new namespace (such as Noncanon:) rather than a category, personally... or even just a template to denote what is canon and what isn't. doesn't really matter *how* they're distinguished, just so long as it's done easily.
23:20 < Wrkncacnter> i can't wait until packard20 starts editing one of these
23:20 < RyokoTK> Well, whatever floats your boat.
23:20 < RyokoTK> I'm not an expert on wiki language
23:20 < RyokoTK> I know it's really simple, I just haven't devoted any time to it
23:20 < Wrkncacnter> same
23:21 < Wrkncacnter> maybe i'd care more if i actually edited these things
23:21 < RyokoTK> so GPT
23:21 < GPT> hi
23:21 < RyokoTK> you still haven't really explained why Wikia is such a great host
23:21 < RyokoTK> connectivity to other projects isn't that relevant
23:21 -!- BenUrban (n=benurban@c-68-49-10-243.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined chat #alephone.
23:21 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o BenUrban .
23:22 < Wrkncacnter> i agree with BenUrban
23:22 < RyokoTK> I mean, if you're trying to get the name out for Marathon, I wouldn't rely on /any/ Marathon wiki to do that.
23:22 < GPT> well, there's connectivity to other projects =P... the folks at jjaro.net don't have to worry about bandwidth and whatnot... MediaWiki updates, moar custom features, etc.
23:22 < RyokoTK> The purpose of a Marathon wiki is a repository for Marathon-related information
23:22 < RyokoTK> which, presumably, only Marathon players would care about
23:22 < doy> GPT: but that stuff is easy
23:22 < doy> and so... not particularly relevant
23:23 < BenUrban> hmm?
23:23 < thermoplyae> it's true, i'm lazy about MediaWiki updates
23:23 < BenUrban> doy? why does your name look familiar?
23:23 < doy> and i agree with ryoko, which has been my point all along... i really don't see what all this talk about 'promotion' really gets us
23:24 < GPT> RyokoTK: 1. moar links could mean more people to play Marathon. 2. moar links means bettar search engine results means more people finding this wiki.
23:24 < RyokoTK> that doesn't address my point though
23:24 < GPT> what's your point, then?
23:24 < RyokoTK> (10:22:39 PM) RyokoTK: The purpose of a Marathon wiki is a repository for Marathon-related information
23:24 < RyokoTK> (10:22:44 PM) RyokoTK: which, presumably, only Marathon players would care about
23:24 < Wrkncacnter> typing "moar" doesn't help your case
23:24 < doy> BenUrban: nethack, probably
23:24 < RyokoTK> it really doesn't
23:24 < GPT> Wrkncacnter: sorry...
23:24 < BenUrban> ahh right
23:24 < doy> and, yeah, what wrk said
23:25 -!- LegacyTyphoon has left chat #alephone ("Somehow I find myself lacking in enthusiasm to go stand in a waiting line with a group of people whose battle cry is, "In the).
23:25 < RyokoTK> We already have means for promoting Marathon.
23:25 < RyokoTK> In fact, Halo 3 promoted Marathon far more effectively than anything else to date.
23:25 he thinks DIGIMON users will accidentally click on his link and fall in love with marathon
23:25 < RyokoTK> Why would someone on the Digimon wiki see "hey, look, a game called Marathon, but I like Digimon, is Marathon like Digimon? nope, it's not, guess I'll go back to Digimon"
23:25 < GPT> so Pfhorpedia is easier for Marathon players to find if they type "marathon game" into Google, for example.
23:26 RyokoTK: that's the Wikia Spotlight, which IMO is crap anyway.
23:26 < GPT> doy: easier to find the wiki, mainly.
23:26 < RyokoTK> Well, really
23:26 < RyokoTK> Marathon game gets me Wikipedia first.
23:26 < RyokoTK> Which is better than both Pfhorpedia and Traxus.
23:26 < doy> GPT: but there's links to traxus from all the main marathon sites
23:26 < thermoplyae> not to mention here, in the topic
23:26 < RyokoTK> "hur dur what's marathon lemme check google"
23:27 < RyokoTK> "hey look it's wikipedia, the most trustworthy source of meaningless info on the internet"
23:27 < doy> so people who care about marathon will find traxus
23:27 < Wrkncacnter> i don't know about you guys, but i use wikia to decide what games i like
23:27 < doy> this isn't really the issue here
23:27 < RyokoTK> A Marathon wiki is a tool for /existing Marathon players/
23:27 < GPT> okay, so promotion isn't that big of a deal for you. you're fine with being sixth result for "waterloo waterpark" while Pfhorpedia's more detailed page is second. alright
23:28 < RyokoTK> boy that sure sounds like a straw man to me
23:28 < Wrkncacnter> i'm fine with just going to marathon's story page, personally
23:28 < doy> so, um
23:28 < RyokoTK> that too
23:28 < thermoplyae> what the crap
23:28 < doy> have you even compared the two pages
23:28 < thermoplyae> http://marathongame.wikia.com/wiki/Waterloo_Waterpark_%28Level%29
23:28 < doy> just open up traxus for waterloo
23:28 < thermoplyae> http://traxus.jjaro.net/traxus/Waterloo_Waterpark
23:28 < doy> and open up pfhorpedia
23:28 < RyokoTK> Also, yes
23:28 < RyokoTK> Traxus's Waterloo Waterpark guide blows Pfhorpedia's away.
23:29 < GPT> Traxus has a walkthrough, trivia, and terminal text.
23:29 < RyokoTK> But even if it didn't, I didn't think that was the point.
23:29 < GPT> bad example.
23:29 < Bartman007> lol.
23:29 < doy> it's not the point, just pointing it out though
23:29 < RyokoTK> You said yourself that the issue was not whose wiki had better information
23:29 < thermoplyae> yes, terrible example
23:29 < RyokoTK> because we were joining them
23:29 < thermoplyae> i did
23:29 < RyokoTK> well so did GPT
23:29 < thermoplyae> even so, gotta maintain pride
23:30 < GPT> but still, you'd rather be SIXTH than SECOND result on Google. alright, if you don't care about that, one less reason to merge, I won't bother discussing it then. next issue?
23:30 < RyokoTK> so the question of "whose individual pages are better" is not actually the question worth answering.
23:30 < RyokoTK> lol
23:30 < doy> seriously
23:30 < Wrkncacnter> no one cares about that
23:30 < doy> we don't care
23:30 < RyokoTK> GPT misses the point again.
23:30 < GPT> what's the point, then?
23:30 < doy> ...i'm not sure i understand the question
23:30 < Wrkncacnter> to have content for existing marathon players
23:30 < RyokoTK> well, the point is which site is better
23:30 < RyokoTK> the google search is not an issue.
23:30 < doy> the entire point to you is google rank?
23:30 < thermoplyae> at the moment, the point is that traxus is the better maintained wiki, and without being convinced otherwise it's just going to sit there and be awesome
23:31 < GPT> doy: as far as promotion... yes, the entire point is Google rank.
23:31 < thermoplyae> if i'm convinced that it would have a better chance at better awesome on wikia, then so be it
23:31 < RyokoTK> GPT why are you ignoring me
23:31 again with this PROMOTION thing
23:31 < thermoplyae> so we're not convincing you, you're convincing us
23:31 < RyokoTK> GPT wikis are not a fucking advertisement
23:31 < doy> exactly
23:31 and we're saying this is not the way to go
23:31 < doy> GPT: it certainly is not
23:31 < thermoplyae> yeah, doy, burden of proof is on you
23:31 < GPT> doy: it isn't?
23:31 then what are we discussing? chickens?
23:32 < doy> you're the only one discussing it
23:32 < RyokoTK> (10:30:37 PM) RyokoTK: well, the point is which site is better
23:32 better in the Future, mind you
23:32 < doy> the wiki should be about content here
23:32 < RyokoTK> You won't bother discussing which site is better?
23:32 < doy> people who care about marathon can already find traxus just fine
23:32 < GPT> I will, then.
23:32 < doy> there's links to it throughout the marathon community
23:32 which site is better, other than content-wise, because all the content would be merged anyway?
23:33 my point is just that people know about it already
23:33 < doy> promotion isn't the issue
23:33 < RyokoTK> And you still haven't adequately answered that because you keep going PROMOTION!!!
23:33 < GPT> well then, you have my answer: Pfhorpedia.
23:33 < GPT> no, I do not.
23:33 < RyokoTK> yes, you do
23:33 < GPT> I said "let's change the subject" and you guys didn't
23:33 < RyokoTK> maybe without the caps but nevertheless.
23:33 < doy> pfhorpedia is better because why?
23:33 < doy> this is what we are trying to get at
23:33 < GPT> then I said "I will, then." and YOU brought up how I kept going PROMOTION!!!, meaning that YOU kept bringing up promotion.
23:34 < RyokoTK> (10:33:40 PM) doy: pfhorpedia is better because why?
23:34 < GPT> doy: updated MediaWiki. more features. better (IMO) skin.
23:34 < doy> okay, no more talk about promotion, or google ranks, or anything like that
23:34 < RyokoTK> answer that por favor.
23:34 < thermoplyae> what features
23:34 < GPT> RyokoTK: I am.
23:34 That's not an issue either.
23:34 < thermoplyae> by 'features' do you mean 'promotion'
23:34 < GPT> no.
23:34 < thermoplyae> then go on
23:34 < RyokoTK> Also isn't "more features" a subset of updating MediaWiki?
23:35 if someone needed something, i'd update
23:35 < RyokoTK> thermo can be bullied into doing stuff.
23:35 < doy> if there's a reason to, it's not hard
23:35 < thermoplyae> in fact, i have a track record of updating
23:35 < thermoplyae> someone wanted ParserFunctions or something
23:35 < Slave> what do either of these sites have that the story page or MSG don't?
23:35 < thermoplyae> anyway, features on demand
23:35 < thermoplyae> slave: organization
23:35 we're working on that
23:35 < Slave> oh, okay
23:35 < thermoplyae> okay, organization in the Future
23:35 < RyokoTK> well, they're working on that
23:35 < RyokoTK> I'm not.
23:36 < GPT> what they have is the fact that *anyone* can work on it, not just Hamish Sinclair, for example.
23:36 < doy> back to the issues though
23:36 < Slave> okay
23:36 < RyokoTK> Anyway, Traxus's skin is more compact
23:36 < RyokoTK> and familiar to Wikipedia users
23:36 < RyokoTK> which, last I checked, is everyone.
23:36 < thermoplyae> albeit color-ugly to some
23:36 < Slave> Traxus looked a lot nicer to me...
23:37 < RyokoTK> yeah, I'm not keen on the white on black, but that can be changed too.
23:37 Changed /easily/
23:37 < RyokoTK> GPT: why not just use Monobook?
23:37 < GPT> "more Web 2.0"
23:37 < RyokoTK> that doesn't even make sense
23:37 < Slave> as for what comes up first in a google search...
23:37 < Wrkncacnter> GPT, your ideas are not intriguing to me and i wish to unsubscribe to your newsletter
23:37 < RyokoTK> you said that before, and you never satisfactorily explained why that matters.
23:37 < GPT> Wrkncacnter: go ahead, then.
23:37 < Slave> when I had just started playing marathon
23:38 < GPT> RyokoTK: the skin itself hardly matters, really.
23:38 < Slave> Id always get the storypage or MSG
23:38 < RyokoTK> GPT: you brought it up as a reason why Pfhorpedia is superior to Traxus.
23:38 < Slave> and the story page always had anything I needed...
23:38 < Slave> I never would have found traxus or pfhorpedia
23:38 < thermoplyae> isn't there something about the license
23:38 < Slave> as a random person not in the community
23:38 true
23:38 < RyokoTK> and Hamish doesn't care about Marathon anymore
23:39 < Slave> :O
23:39 < thermoplyae> the sad truth
23:39 < Wrkncacnter> and slave, what if you want to add something to the story page
23:39 < thermoplyae> still, license troubles
23:39 < Slave> like what?
23:39 < GPT> which is why Pfhorpedia and/or Traxus will always be superior to the Story page.. after they get to that point.
23:39 < Slave> I guess I just can't think of anything I'd even want to add...
23:39 < RyokoTK> Traxus has a number of mechanical advantages over Pfhorpedia.
23:39 < thermoplyae> good
23:40 < Slave> Oh, there also is another clip of ammo in that one room...
23:40 < RyokoTK> One, it's not part of Wikia, which has a tradition of being sloooooooow
23:40 < RyokoTK> in my experience, anyway.
23:40 < RyokoTK> Two, there's no encroachment from other, apparently more important wikis
23:40 < Wrkncacnter> i'm still don't think i've heard one reasonable advantage for pfhorpedia
23:40 < Wrkncacnter> i still*
23:40 < RyokoTK> "why would you be browsing Marathon when you could be reading MST3K?"
23:40 < thermoplyae> you know
23:41 < thermoplyae> if Halopedia allowed for non-canon links, the networking might be useful
23:41 < thermoplyae> imagine all the MC IS THE MARINE links
23:41 < thermoplyae> we'd be swimming in visitors
23:41 < Wrkncacnter> i'd rather not
23:41 < RyokoTK> lol
23:41 < doy> it's not under the control of wikia, which is personally a big thing... we can do whatever we want, and we know that traxus will still be there tomorrow (barring illegal things and whatnot)
23:41 < RyokoTK> thermoplyae: are you the admin for all jjaro.net?
23:41 < thermoplyae> i am
23:41 < RyokoTK> there you go
23:42 < RyokoTK> thermo is the man in power.
23:42 < GPT> anyway, I think Pfhorpedia is better for these reasons: unending flow of people willing to help *build up* the wiki, even those who don't play Marathon, including fixing the numerous "whom"s that need to say "who" instead when (if) Traxus merges into Pfhorpedia. snazzier layout with more features (including some Wikia-exclusive, meaning you can't have them) that may or may not really matter that much. free hosting that doesn't feed off of poor th
23:42 < GPT> ermoplyae's bandwidth. whole team of people working to make Wikia as a whole (and therefore all the individual bits) a lot better. there. happy?
23:42 * GPT smacks long lines
23:42 < RyokoTK> wait
23:42 < RyokoTK> what unending flow of people?
23:42 < thermoplyae> we talked about that on the traxus discussion page
23:42 < GPT> hyperbole FTW
23:43 < thermoplyae> it's been a featured wikia for a while, and in the past month there are like four distinct editors
23:43 < GPT> me and all the Wikia Gaming helpers, mainly
23:43 < Wrkncacnter> i didn't know thermoplyae's bandwidth was a problem
23:43 < GPT> it probably isn't.
23:43 < doy> Wrkncacnter: it's not
23:43 < GPT> it probably isn't.
23:43 < doy> Wrkncacnter: it's not
23:43 < RyokoTK> I don't know how much help someone completely unfamiliar with the game is.
23:43 < Wrkncacnter> ok, so i guess to answer your question, no i'm not happy
23:43 < GPT> also, I'm a big fan of the GFDL, as are quite a few people in the wiki world.
23:44 < GPT> ...which is why Pfhorpedia uses the GFDL.
23:44 < RyokoTK> Besides, the fewer anyone has to do with the Grammar Nazi Movement, the better :P
23:44 < GPT> D=:<
23:44 that's a personal thing anyway
23:44 < Wrkncacnter> we'll get a page on thusly
23:45 < RyokoTK> I agree that the expertise from experienced wiki* users may be of some service
23:45 < RyokoTK> even if all they do is make pages more encyclopedia-like
23:45 < thermoplyae> tbqh, i haven't read the gfdl
23:45 < thermoplyae> can anyone summarize it
23:45 < RyokoTK> Wikipedia can :P
23:45 < doy> gpl type thing
23:46 < thermoplyae> i don't know anything about the gpl either
23:46 < doy> "you must release modified versions under this license"
23:46 < doy> "you can't restrict people's access to copying things"
23:46 < doy> etc
23:46 < thermoplyae> forinstance, smithy is released under the uiuc license because it was short and contained what i wanted
23:46 < thermoplyae> ah
23:46 < thermoplyae> i see
23:47 < doy> basically all of my work is bsd/mit licensed because that's what i want for my work
23:47 < RyokoTK> Addressing your list, again, GPT, "snazzier layout" is a) tremendously subjective and b) a trivial change
23:48 < RyokoTK> thermo's bandwidth is a non-issue, as stated
23:48 < GPT> which is why I said "that may or may not really matter that much."
23:48 < thermoplyae> the license is sort of an issue, i guess
23:48 < RyokoTK> right, well, I'm not finished
23:48 < GPT> yes, as stated.
23:48 < GPT> go on
23:48 < RyokoTK> I'm addressing your points in turn.
23:48 < RyokoTK> The GFDL is something of some controversy
23:48 < RyokoTK> so we can't really say that having it makes it better without getting into that whole debate
23:49 < RyokoTK> having a handful of people who are bored and just tinker with our wiki may be of some benefit, though, I will grant
23:49 < RyokoTK> but that's about the only sure thing out of that list
23:50 < GPT> IMO, having it makes it better simply because so many other wikis use it... standardization FTW, partially because of my... Hell, I don't even know what it is. OCD, sort of thing.
23:50 < doy> but do we really want people who don't know anything about marathon messing with the wiki?
23:50 < thermoplyae> so what traxus's license is missing is some sort of guarantee that other people can republish the work
23:50 < thermoplyae> without explicit permission
23:50 < GPT> doy: I mess with all kinds of other wikis I know nothing about... they usually thank me for.
23:50 < thermoplyae> otherwise it seems to more or less align with the gfdl
23:50 < GPT> *for it.
23:50 < thermoplyae> from that brief description and my poor comprehension of the gpl, anyway
23:51 < RyokoTK> That's not at all as important as having editors that actually care about Marathon, though.
23:51 < RyokoTK> Having editors that have the time to clarify the English is a sort of tertiary issue
23:51 < thermoplyae> all the traxus editors have said that if all the traxus content went to pfhorpedia, they would go with it
23:51 < thermoplyae> we wouldn't be losing anyone, or at least not foreseeably
23:51 < RyokoTK> well, I know
23:51 < RyokoTK> that isn't what I meant
23:51 < thermoplyae> then i don't get it
23:52 < RyokoTK> I mean, we should be concerned on getting new editors that actually know the game
23:52 < RyokoTK> rather than getting new editors that just know English
23:52 < Wrkncacnter> is english a problem on traxus?
23:52 < RyokoTK> I mean, I'm a fairly competent writer, I could go around and tinker with the wording myself, and I can /additionally/ fix factual errors.
23:52 < GPT> Pfhorpedia's gained two editors from Halopedia who are familiar with Marathon who would have never found Traxus.
23:52 < thermoplyae> someone corrected a who/whom error the other day
23:52 < GPT> "someone"? that was me. ^_^
23:52 < thermoplyae> that's it in the past year or so
23:52 < RyokoTK> why wouldn't Halopedia then link to Traxus
23:53 < RyokoTK> if a merger took place.
23:53 < RyokoTK> Is it illegal to link to wikis not on Wikia if you're a Wikia wiki?
23:53 < GPT> no
23:53 < RyokoTK> I mean, connectivity with Halopedia is of some relevance
23:53 < RyokoTK> connectivity with Digimon, not so much
23:53 < GPT> which is why the new skin says "screw you, Wikia Spotlights!"
23:54 < Wrkncacnter> i'd have to see this skin
23:54 < RyokoTK> either way, it's a non-issue, we can ask the Halopedia staff to link to Traxus
23:54 < RyokoTK> I'd find it highly unlikely that they'd decline.
23:54 < GPT> you find it highly unlikely that *I* would decline to link to the wiki I'm trying to get to merge the *other* way? =P
23:54 < RyokoTK> you run Halopedia too?
23:54 < GPT> ^_^
23:54 < RyokoTK> man, talk about maturity
23:55 < RyokoTK> "I lost the merger war, so I'm not going to link to the wiki at all! nyah!"
23:55 < Wrkncacnter> yeah, sounds to me like you just like to run wikis :P
23:55 < GPT> if Pfhorpedia ended up merging into Traxus, I'd be more than willing, actually... hence the "=P"
23:55 < RyokoTK> right.
23:55 < RyokoTK> So, yet again, a non-issue.
23:55 < doy> GPT: do you have a link to anything that shows what the new wikia skin will look like?
23:56 maybe
23:56 < GPT> I'll just chop off the address bar up
23:56 < RyokoTK> depends on what's in the screenshot :P
23:56 < RyokoTK> anyway, GPT, not being a member of Pfhorpedia, there are ads.
23:56 < RyokoTK> I don't know if that changes when I register
23:56 < GPT> it's not membership...
23:56 < GPT> IIRC
23:56 < RyokoTK> but Traxus doesn't have ads for anyone, ever.
23:57 < thermoplyae> how cozy are you with the wikia administration that they give you hidden links?
23:57 < RyokoTK> And nobody will, in the future, be forcing ads upon us.
23:57 < Wrkncacnter> it basically comes down to licence and minor fixes with english vs no ads
23:57 < thermoplyae> because being cozy with the admins is pretty convenient
23:57 < RyokoTK> Wrk: and personally knowing the administrator
23:57 < RyokoTK> yes, thermo, but it's less convenient than /being/ the administrator
23:57 < Wrkncacnter> i thought GPT would give thermo admin access
23:58 < RyokoTK> yeah, but there are things that the Wikia admins can force on GPT
23:58 < thermoplyae> 'admin' in a loose sense
23:58 < Wrkncacnter> yeah i guess
23:58 RyokoTK: but what would they force on me?
23:58 < Wrkncacnter> ads
23:58 < RyokoTK> links to other wikis
23:58 < RyokoTK> hell, a link to Wikia.
23:59 < GPT> I link to nine other wikis of my own accord... they wouldn't force more on me. there's one banner ad at the top of the page... and nothing else.
23:59 marathon : the wiki wars
23:59 < GPT> I realize that.
23:59 < RyokoTK> No ads >>>>>>>>>>> at least 1 ad
23:59 < RyokoTK> if I want to browse the Pfhorpedia, I have to wait for some shitty ad to load
23:59 < RyokoTK> well, /I/ don't, I have Adblock, but not everyone does.
00:00 < Slave> I don't :(
00:00 < RyokoTK> right.
00:00 < doy> it's not just the ads though
00:00 < doy> like i said
00:00 < thermoplyae> yeah, and slave is our target audience
00:00 < Wrkncacnter> haha
00:00 < RyokoTK> doy: I know, but it's a valid point
00:00 < doy> the size of the content vs the size of everything else on the page
00:00 < RyokoTK> thermoplyae: he's certainly a fair representative.
00:00 < doy> is ridiculous
00:00 < RyokoTK> there is that, too
00:00 < thermoplyae> tk: i agree, and it's good that he's here
00:00 < Slave> :)
00:01 < RyokoTK> like I said earlier, it's encroachment
00:01 < RyokoTK> Traxus doesn't encroach at all
00:01 < doy> this might be improved by this "new skin", but i'm waiting to see what that looks like
00:01 < Wrkncacnter> but he's already given his opinion that he doesn't care about either wiki
00:01 < GPT> doy: you won't be waiting much longer...
00:01 < thermoplyae> is that a threat
00:01 < RyokoTK> snap
00:01 < thermoplyae> hurry up :(
00:01 < RyokoTK> "this is a Monobook clone that is 'more web2.0' even though that's essentially a meaningless phrase"
00:02 < Wrkncacnter> i dunno, i say we just let switch start a wiki
00:02 < RyokoTK> that's a fantastic idea, wrk.
00:02 < GPT> http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/1687/picture1lf1.png
00:02 < thermoplyae> yes, a third wiki is the way to go
00:02 < RyokoTK> Why would I be loading 80 effing images
00:03 < Slave> Meet other halo fans?
00:03 < GPT> "Meet Other Halo Fans" and "Site Activity" refer to features which everyone would say "DILLIGAF" to, and therefore won't be on Pfhorpedia... so act like they aren't there.
00:03 < RyokoTK> see, that's the other good thing about Traxus, almost every image is pertinent to the page.
00:03 < thermoplyae> it's good looking
00:03 < GPT> RyokoTK: show me an image on Pfhorpedia that is not pertinent to the page?
00:03 < RyokoTK> Alright that's fair enough, then.
00:03 < GPT> *.
00:03 < doy> what's it look like scrolled down further?
00:03 < RyokoTK> GPT: the ad.
00:03 < RyokoTK> uh, Wikia Gaming banner near the bottom
00:03 < RyokoTK> the background
00:04 < RyokoTK> two Wikipedia spotlight ads
00:04 < GPT> more content and one Gaming banner which we've elected to have
00:04 < GPT> two Wikipedia spotlight ads? no.
00:04 < thermoplyae> "play the picture game"
00:04 < RyokoTK> errr
00:04 < RyokoTK> Wikia
00:04 < RyokoTK> not Wikipedia
00:04 < GPT> still, no.
00:04 < RyokoTK> oh, they aren't there?
00:04 < RyokoTK> I must be delusional, then
00:04 < GPT> thermoplyae: another community feature that's unecessary.
00:04 < GPT> RyokoTK: they're there on the current skin, not on the new.
00:04 < thermoplyae> so can you provide a screenshot that portrays what we would see
00:05 < thermoplyae> beyond providing a color scheme, this isn't too useful
00:05 < doy> just scroll down to the bottom and give another screenshot
00:05 < thermoplyae> since half of what we see is apparently irrelevant
00:05 < GPT> not at the moment... but I can ask for one.
00:05 < doy> or yeah, a smaller page would work too
00:06 < RyokoTK> Well, Traxus won't have the Wikia Gaming banner on the very top of the page.
00:06 < GPT> btw, the "Meet Other Halo Fans" and "Site Activity" are only on the main page anyway.
00:06 < Wrkncacnter> "every tackle, every run"
00:06 < Wrkncacnter> good stuff
00:06 < RyokoTK> I originally meant the "More Wikia Gaming" image near the bottom of Pfhorpedia's current page.
00:06 < GPT> of Pfhorpedia's current *main* page...
00:07 < RyokoTK> having a good main page is crucial
00:07 < doy> which is, you know, the one that people see first
00:07 < GPT> yeah
00:08 < RyokoTK> the only fault with Traxus's main page is the red
00:09 < RyokoTK> and that's really not a fault of the site itself
00:09 < RyokoTK> it's not laid out particularly neatly, but that's another non-issue
00:10 < doy> yeah, i just came up with the monobook.css modifications for traxus in like an evening to go along with the colorscheme of the rest of jjaro.net
00:10 < doy> before it really became independantly popular at all
00:10 < RyokoTK> well, whatever, I'm not going to gripe about the skin anymore, because that's not really getting to the core of the issue
00:10 < doy> if people want it changed, that's not a big deal
00:11 < RyokoTK> Well, most of my wiki browsing takes place on Wikipedia
00:11 < doy> right
00:11 < RyokoTK> I'm rather familiar with how Wikipedia looks and feels
00:11 < RyokoTK> and I like it, it's comfortable, all of the menu options are present without taking up much space
00:11 < RyokoTK> and there isn't any wasted space at all in the menu areas
00:12 < RyokoTK> I would think that looking and feeling like Wikipedia is probably a benefit to all of our users
00:12 < doy> exactly... traxus has maybe 100px on the left side taken up by nav bars, and probably the same on top and bottom combined
00:12 < Wrkncacnter> links on traxus are kind of hard to see
00:12 < Wrkncacnter> that would be the first thing i'd fix
00:12 * GPT g2g now.
00:12 < GPT> I've emailed the people in charge of the skin, y'all should be getting a link to what Pfhorpedia's main page would look like in the new skin--completely scrollable, I think--sometime soon.
00:12 < RyokoTK> yeah but that's a color scheme problem
00:12 < doy> okay
00:13 -!- GPT has left chat #alephone (""jippity doo dah, jippity ay" ~nalioth").