Dr.Zom:Yogimus: You know what makes me weep? How everyone OTHER than those two get a complete pass.

/lookin at you congress

We'll never know what Cheney's Intel Unit was telling those guys behind the scenes. I distinctly remember one congressman saying Cheney's people told him Saddam had drones that could reach the east coast with nerve gas. Total BS, but scary. They wanted war, they got it, and they killed anybody who got in their way.

I've looked for that article since and it's pretty much gone down the memory hole like so much other stuff.

Still, they should have know they were liars. I could tell and I'm nobody.

Before we get too carried away here, please remember that there WERE nerve agents in Iraq, which was the whole issue behind the whole U.N. inspection teams finding the storage areas unsealed after they secured them. Furthermore, the military has been steadily disposing those stockpiles since the war began.

Gee. A letter damning GWB and Cheney. Who coulda seen this coming. And from an outfit called TruthDig.

What did this guy think was going to happen? Tiddlywinks and ticker tape parades? Qar is hell and if you sign up to be a soldier, you are probably going to see the Hell.

A tug on the heart-strings moment means no one criticizes, but the issue of taking America into war deserves a lot more seriousness than a letter from a veteran, whose opinion is at odds with so many other veterans.

Kurmudgeon:lolpix: "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."

And yet as a Christian and a Democrat, I never supported Dubya, Dick or the GOP to the point I've lost family and friends over this issue. Bush 2 Administration bore false witness to wage war.That is not a Christian value. Oh well, I'm sure someone will knee jerk post this Sinclair Lewis quote inaccurately once again.

It isn't a reflection on Christians. It's a reflection on Fascism. Fascist rhetoric appeals folk legends in order to beguile. In the U.S., one of the principle folklores which demonstrably galvanizes vast portions of the population is Evangelical Christianity. This doesn't belittle the individual Christian or even Christianity itself. It simply warns that they will try to use your own beliefs against you. It's how they operate.

I felt like trolling and saying "the Knesset", but I really don't feel like joking this time. So I'll just leave this here:

"All this was inspired by the principle--which is quite true within itself--that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying."

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." -- From a letter signed by Joe Lieberman, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara A. Milulski, Tom Daschle, & John Kerry among others on October 9, 1998

"This December will mark three years since United Nations inspectors last visited Iraq. There is no doubt that since that time, Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to refine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer- range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." -- From a December 6, 2001 letter signed by Bob Graham, Joe Lieberman, Harold Ford, & Tom Lantos among others

"Whereas Iraq has consistently breached its cease-fire agreement between Iraq and the United States, entered into on March 3, 1991, by failing to dismantle its weapons of mass destruction program, and refusing to permit monitoring and verification by United Nations inspections; Whereas Iraq has developed weapons of mass destruction, including chemical and biological capabilities, and has made positive progress toward developing nuclear weapons capabilities" -- From a joint resolution submitted by Tom Harkin and Arlen Specter on July 18, 2002

"Saddam's goal ... is to achieve the lifting of U.N. sanctions while retaining and enhancing Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs. We cannot, we must not and we will not let him succeed." -- Madeline Albright, 1998

"(Saddam) will rebuild his arsenal of weapons of mass destruction and some day, some way, I am certain he will use that arsenal again, as he has 10 times since 1983" -- National Security Adviser Sandy Berger, Feb 18, 1998

"Iraq made commitments after the Gulf War to completely dismantle all weapons of mass destruction, and unfortunately, Iraq has not lived up to its agreement." -- Barbara Boxer, November 8, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capability. Intelligence reports also indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons, but has not yet achieved nuclear capability." -- Robert Byrd, October 2002

"There's no question that Saddam Hussein is a threat... Yes, he has chemical and biological weapons. He's had those for a long time. But the United States right now is on a very much different defensive posture than we were before September 11th of 2001... He is, as far as we know, actively pursuing nuclear capabilities, though he doesn't have nuclear warheads yet. If he were to acquire nuclear weapons, I think our friends in the region would face greatly increased risks as would we." -- Wesley Clark on September 26, 2002

"What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad's regime did use such weapons in the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs." -- Jacques Chirac, October 16, 2002

"The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow." -- Bill Clinton in 1998

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security." -- Hillary Clinton, October 10, 2002

"I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons...I saw evidence back in 1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those trucks out." -- Clinton's Secretary of Defense William Cohen in April of 2003

"Iraq is not the only nation in the world to possess weapons of mass destruction, but it is the only nation with a leader who has used them against his own people." -- Tom Daschle in 1998

"Saddam Hussein's regime represents a grave threat to America and our allies, including our vital ally, Israel. For more than two decades, Saddam Hussein has sought weapons of mass destruction through every available means. We know that he has chemical and biological weapons. He has already used them against his neighbors and his own people, and is trying to build more. We know that he is doing everything he can to build nuclear weapons, and we know that each day he gets closer to achieving that goal." -- John Edwards, Oct 10, 2002

"The debate over Iraq is not about politics. It is about national security. It should be clear that our national security requires Congress to send a clear message to Iraq and the world: America is united in its determination to eliminate forever the threat of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction." -- John Edwards, Oct 10, 2002

"I share the administration's goals in dealing with Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction." -- Dick Gephardt in September of 2002

"Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of the Persian Gulf and we should organize an international coalition to eliminate his access to weapons of mass destruction. Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." -- Al Gore, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." -- Bob Graham, December 2002

"Saddam Hussein is not the only deranged dictator who is willing to deprive his people in order to acquire weapons of mass destruction." -- Jim Jeffords, October 8, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." -- Ted Kennedy, September 27, 2002

"There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein's regime is a serious danger, that he is a tyrant, and that his pursuit of lethal weapons of mass destruction cannot be tolerated. He must be disarmed." -- Ted Kennedy, Sept 27, 2002

"I will be voting to give the president of the United States the authority to use force - if necessary - to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." -- John F. Kerry, Oct 2002

"The threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but as I said, it is not new. It has been with us since the end of that war, and particularly in the last 4 years we know after Operation Desert Fox failed to force him to reaccept them, that he has continued to build those weapons. He has had a free hand for 4 years to reconstitute these weapons, allowing the world, during the interval, to lose the focus we had on weapons of mass destruction and the issue of proliferation." -- John Kerry, October 9, 2002

"(W)e need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime. We all know the litany of his offenses. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. ...And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. That is why the world, through the United Nations Security Council, has spoken with one voice, demanding that Iraq disclose its weapons programs and disarm. So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but it is not new. It has been with us since the end of the Persian Gulf War." -- John Kerry, Jan 23, 2003

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandates of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them." -- Carl Levin, Sept 19, 2002

"Every day Saddam remains in power with chemical weapons, biological weapons, and the development of nuclear weapons is a day of danger for the United States." -- Joe Lieberman, August, 2002

"Over the years, Iraq has worked to develop nuclear, chemical and biological weapons. During 1991 - 1994, despite Iraq's denials, U.N. inspectors discovered and dismantled a large network of nuclear facilities that Iraq was using to develop nuclear weapons. Various reports indicate that Iraq is still actively pursuing nuclear weapons capability. There is no reason to think otherwise. Beyond nuclear weapons, Iraq has actively pursued biological and chemical weapons.U.N. inspectors have said that Iraq's claims about biological weapons is neither credible nor verifiable. In 1986, Iraq used chemical weapons against Iran, and later, against its own Kurdish population. While weapons inspections have been successful in the past, there have been no inspections since the end of 1998. There can be no doubt that Iraq has continued to pursue its goal of obtaining weapons of mass destruction." -- Patty Murray, October 9, 2002

"As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." -- Nancy Pelosi, December 16, 1998

"Even today, Iraq is not nearly disarmed. Based on highly credible intelligence, UNSCOM [the U.N. weapons inspectors] suspects that Iraq still has biological agents like anthrax, botulinum toxin, and clostridium perfringens in sufficient quantity to fill several dozen bombs and ballistic missile warheads, as well as the means to continue manufacturing these deadly agents. Iraq probably retains several tons of the highly toxic VX substance, as well as sarin nerve gas and mustard gas. This agent is stored in artillery shells, bombs, and ballistic missile warheads. And Iraq retains significant dual-use industrial infrastructure that can be used to rapidly reconstitute large-scale chemical weapons production." -- Ex-Un Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter in 1998

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years. And that may happen sooner if he can obtain access to enriched uranium from foreign sources -- something that is not that difficult in the current world. We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction." -- John Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002

"Saddam's existing biological and chemical weapons capabilities pose a very real threat to America, now. Saddam has used chemical weapons before, both against Iraq's enemies and against his own people. He is working to develop delivery systems like missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles that could bring these deadly weapons against U.S. forces and U.S. facilities in the Middle East." -- John Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002

"Whether one agrees or disagrees with the Administration's policy towards Iraq, I don't think there can be any question about Saddam's conduct. He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do. He lies and cheats; he snubs the mandate and authority of international weapons inspectors; and he games the system to keep buying time against enforcement of the just and legitimate demands of the United Nations, the Security Council, the United States and our allies. Those are simply the facts." -- Henry Waxman, Oct 10, 2002

I'm sure writing a letter to people who haven't been in power for four years will get you very far. Bush the younger totally started the war in iraq with absolutely no help from congress or any other member of government.

Yogimus:Before we get too carried away here, please remember that there WERE nerve agents in Iraq, which was the whole issue behind the whole U.N. inspection teams finding the storage areas unsealed after they secured them. Furthermore, the military has been steadily disposing those stockpiles since the war began.

I think that the notion of a "Declaration of War" is even more quaint and costume-drama twee as a Card gravely sent to an Honourable Acquaintance begging he shall consent to act as a Second in a most Honourable duel, to be held on grounds to be decided by said Seconds according to the immemorial customs of the Service.

That in no way bears on the wisdom of the Framers in separating the Capability of waging war, from the People's represented Consent to so commence.

lolpix:Kurmudgeon: lolpix: "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."

And yet as a Christian and a Democrat, I never supported Dubya, Dick or the GOP to the point I've lost family and friends over this issue. Bush 2 Administration bore false witness to wage war.That is not a Christian value. Oh well, I'm sure someone will knee jerk post this Sinclair Lewis quote inaccurately once again.

It isn't a reflection on Christians. It's a reflection on Fascism. Fascist rhetoric appeals folk legends in order to beguile. In the U.S., one of the principle folklores which demonstrably galvanizes vast portions of the population is Evangelical Christianity. This doesn't belittle the individual Christian or even Christianity itself. It simply warns that they will try to use your own beliefs against you. It's how they operate.

Corn_Fed:None of the Democrats who got strong-armed into cowardly going along with it actually wanted it.

Then they shouldn't have rubber stamped it. Nelson Mandela was jailed 27 years for standing up for what he thought was right. What would have happened to a congressman? At worst he might lose an election and have to go back to practicing law in the private sector.

bhcompy:lolpix: Kurmudgeon: lolpix: "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."

And yet as a Christian and a Democrat, I never supported Dubya, Dick or the GOP to the point I've lost family and friends over this issue. Bush 2 Administration bore false witness to wage war.That is not a Christian value. Oh well, I'm sure someone will knee jerk post this Sinclair Lewis quote inaccurately once again.

It isn't a reflection on Christians. It's a reflection on Fascism. Fascist rhetoric appeals folk legends in order to beguile. In the U.S., one of the principle folklores which demonstrably galvanizes vast portions of the population is Evangelical Christianity. This doesn't belittle the individual Christian or even Christianity itself. It simply warns that they will try to use your own beliefs against you. It's how they operate.

This is the world in which we live: Billionaire psychopaths send everyone but their kids into slavery or war - solely to increase their own wealth - and no one cares.

Yay! {8/

This man volunteered, this was not a draft. Repeatedly he shows in the letter he is unwilling/unable to accept that he alone is responsible for his own actions. I in no way defend Bush, Cheney or any other scumbag politician or Daddy Warbucks factory owning family.

So being wounded in Bush/Cheney's cash grab for Haliburton makes you a traitor?

You really are one of the worst excuses for a "human" on the internet. I don't even care that I'm falling for your troll. You are a piece of shiat. I would throw away the shoe that stepped on your steaming, parasite filled steaming pile.

In all honesty, when Dick Cheney dies, if he isn't some kind of evil monster for real, I hope they donate his body to science because I really want to know what the fark is wrong with him. Is a part of his brain just dead?

lolpix:It isn't a reflection on Christians. It's a reflection on Fascism. Fascist rhetoric appeals folk legends in order to beguile. In the U.S., one of the principle folklores which demonstrably galvanizes vast portions of the population is Evangelical Christianity. This doesn't belittle the individual Christian or even Christianity itself. It simply warns that they will try to use your own beliefs against you. It's how they operate.

If only a majority held your belief. I've seen it much more often used as a weapon against faith than as a lesson not to support fascists....sadly.