A friend of mine, his family owns about 4 pizza places in town. His family is very italian, and have been making pizza for years, and I always give him grief, because he tends to have an ego about how great his pizza is. And truthfully his pizza is excellent. I am constantly asking him for his recipe, which he will never reveal, but usually if I say something stupid or nieve about how to make a pizza he will usually tell me I'm wrong and then reveal some little technique. I play dumb alot.

He told me to get a good rise out of his dough, with good voids that he never uses oil in his dough, it weighs it down. He told me instead he uses something "similar" to oil and alot more flavorful i.e. butter or margarine. Trust me I can taste it. He parbakes the dough, to get a good rise then he uses a dough dressing of extra-virgin olive oil and garlic powder to flavor the dough. He also claims that great dough recipes start from great bread recipes. So start dusting off your copy of the Bread Baker's Apprentice.

I am happy to report my attempt at this LC recipe was fairly successfull. Although it doesn't look like much, it tasted pretty close to the real thing...I can't distinguish a difference between the two, but it has been many years since I ate a LC pie.

I used the recipe posted above with my alterations (Peter's alterations really). I also made a mix of 3-4 tbl margerine with 1/2 tsp garlic powder and 2 tbl parmesian cheese to brush on the crust after I baked it. I put two coats of the margerine mix on, and then sprinkled parmesian cheese over the crust.

Again, it was really close; especially the buttery element of the crust that I remember most about LC was there. If anything, it could have used more parmesian...but that could just be an issue of using a better quality parmesian cheese than what I used.

I'm having problems attaching the photo...I have reduced the photo to the smallest size my photo editor will perform, and I am still getting a message it is too large.

Illini? Did my ugly pizza scare you away?Really, it was quite good. I plan on making the same crust this weekend. The sauce was quite good too; at first it was too bland for me, but once it cooked on the pizza, it was right on.

Too many irons in the fire. I tried your alteration, but instead I added the margarine & parmasean directly to the dough mix. It was pretty good, except that i think my yeast went bad on me. The pizza barely rose at all. Its to be expected, I use SAF compressed cakes of active yeast, it has about a 10 day life span once opened, but i freeze it and extend it, but i think the yeast is officially dead now.

I think I added too much parmasean to the actual dough itself, but the margarine was about right on, I will experiment further to get the correct percentage of margarine. I used land o lakes margarine, which looks a whole lot more like butter then Walmart's Great Value margarine that I tried before. I used kraft 100% real grated parmeasean cheese, but a restaurant supply store will probably have a commercial version of Grated Parmasean.

I also use a 60/40 Mozzarella to Muenster Cheese Blend by weight.

Keep cranking away, and in no time i am sure we will have the recipe in no time.

As far as the sauce goes I will experiment with not cooking the sauce, I know the little caesars I worked for never had a stove, but they may have had a portable burner like outdoor deep fryers use, I can't remember. My sauce is a little on the dark side right now, and it has more of a smoky flavor then I would like.

As far as oven temperature goes, I have heard varying temps. Someone said 425, but i thought I remember them using 650 on a middleby-marshall conveyor oven.

Sorry, I'm sort of a perfectionist, I probably won't be happy until our recipe beats a blind taste-test from someone who works at Caesars.

I made the Caesar's recipe tonight, except w/o the parmesian substitution for the flour. I really smothered my dough ball in melted butter before putting it in the fridge for it's overnight rise. Should be biting into that badboy in another hour, so I'll post my findings. Otherwise, I plan to keep the recipe/alterations intact...I still plan on brushing on the butter/garlic powder/parmesian mix after it is done.

Peter has suggested I use my Broil setting on my oven, as I have been cooking pizzas at 500 degrees. As you might be able to tell from my picture, my cheese doesn't melt like commercial pizzas, Peter's, and many of the posted pizzas on this site...it comes out with this plastic-like texture, with no brown-spotting like you typically see in any of the takeout places.

Here is a picture of tonight's Caesar. It looks a lot better than last week, as I followed Peter's tip and baked on the broil setting. However, I think last week's tasted more like LC. Not to say this week was bad by any means...just further away from L.C. So either I left it in too long, or the parmesian substitute got me closer.

I find that my new job and life in general takes me away from the people and the things I love, but..having said that. Everytime I come back to this forum, I feel like I'm at home. I read through the post and I'm smiling the whole time. I know it sounds sappy, but I think its great. I love pizza, I love baking my own and experimenting, and you all just feel like kindred spirits. Thanks.

I came looking this time, for a good starting off place for making CiCi's cheesey/garlic bread. My wife and I absolutely love it, and I want to be able to make it at home. If anyone has any suggestions or comments on the subject they will be appreciated. I experimented with a crust the other night and my wife made the comment "if it had lots more cheese, and NO sauce..it would be great cheesey breadsticks", which coming from her picky eater self..means something, and it got me thinking..as usual.

Was poking around looking for a LC dough recipe and stumbled upon this forum. This has been the most helpful site I've found so far. My first job was LC and worked there for a few years in H.S. I was an assistant manager, so was involved in all aspects of the operation, including making my share of sauce and dough. Now, I just wish I remembered more -- that was 20 years ago! Interestingly, I grew up in the little suburb of Detroit (Garden City) where LC got its start -- I didn't work at store #1, but did work at another LC in Garden City -- the one I worked at used to be a sit down restaurant, complete with beer (before it relocated down the street and before my time working there) -- one of my fond memories from childhood was going to that sit-down LC with my parents -- dark wood, kind of dim lighting, pizza ovens right there when you walked in the door where you could watch the guys making the pizzas. Anyway, I digress...

Some people have mentioned cooking the sauce -- we NEVER cooked the sauce -- there was no stove on which the sauce could even have been cooked. The ingredients were mixed together in a big stock pot the night before and placed in the walk-in cooler where the seasoning had time to infuse the tomato sauce.

Definitely correct on the mozzarella/muenster ration.

Just wish I could remember more about the dough ingredients. We'd put all the ingredients in the Hobart (the big mixer) and then break it apart into chunks of certain weights (anyone remember the weights? and what size pan corresponded to which weight?), we'd ball it to get a tight skin, put it on an oiled tray and brush the balls with the oil and put it in the walk in cooler. Some people have suggested that the dough sat in the cooler for longer than I remember -- I remember using the dough we made in the morning thorughout the day. It was mechanically sheeted-out and then hand stretched, put in the pan with cornmeal and allowed to rise for about a half-hour.

Would be great if we could find someone who works there now or more recently with more specific info.

The sauce was seasoned with a packet of seasoning, so replicating the exact seasoning presents a bit of a challenge, but I am encouraged by the recipes posted here.

The dough should be very easy to replicate, because there were no secret ingredients -- we had a very direct and straightforward recipe that we followed -- just wish I could remember what it was.

Stretching my memory a bit more, I now think the idea of letting the dough sit overnight might have been a practice -- we definitely made the dough in the mornings, but maybe the dough we used that day was the dough we had made the morning before?

And to add to the mix about the oven temperatures, my recollection was 800 degrees F and I recall an 8-minute cooking time.

Snowman seemed to have some pretty good info -- wonder if he still checks in around here?

I just tried the Cheese mix (70% Mozz, 30% Muenster) mentioned for LC. Then I added 1 part of sharp cheddar to it. The cheese was great and came close to the Round Table taste. I will try this ratio again with Provolone. I think Round table may be using, Mozzarella, Provolone, Sharp Cheddar in their cheese mix. The ratio I used was 3 parts Mozz, 1 part Muenster, 1 part Sharp Cheddar.

The cheese had a really nice bite to it. Very tasty. BTW the cheddar and Mozz were Sargento brand, the Muenster was something I grabbed from the deli.

Have you guys made any more progress on your Caesars dough? This is awesome so far!

My first attempt at the LC dough recipe from the 1st page of this thread (snowman's/foodblogger's thin #2) came out good, but not great -- turned out a little on the bready side. I used Sir Lancelot flour, followed the LC sauce recipe (which was pretty close to LC), used 1/3 muenster to 2/3 part-skim low moisture mozzarella and Hillshire Farms pepperoni. Results were encouraging enough, but needed some adjustments.

So, for my second pie I abandoned the LC dough recipe and went with something more along the lines of the Lehman dough using 63% hydration and .105 thickness factor. Exact recipe below.

I use a Kitchen Aid mixer w/ bread hook, and eased up on the knead time for the second attempt. My first attempt went 8 minutes; second attempt I only went 5 minutes (after a 2 minute stir and knead on speed 6 in both instances).

After taking the dough from the mixer, I cut the dough to get the appropriate weight for a 14" pie -- have been making double recipes, so I use the second half of the dough to make "crazy bread." I form the dough into a tight-skinned ball, put in an oiled proofing tin, press down on top of the dough to slightly flatten it, brush soybean oil on top and put in the fridge for about 24 hours. Take the dough out of the fridge, plop in a bowl of flour, flip and plop the other side. Then stretch, put in PSTK 14" deep-dish stacking pan from pizzatools.com (this seemed closest to what LC uses) that has been liberally sprinkled with cornmeal.

I allow the dough to rise in the pan at room temperature for about an hour, top, and bake for about 8 minutes at 525 F.

Because LC sheets out their dough before hand stretching, for my first attempt I used a rolling pin to get something like a sheet out and hand-stretched from there -- because of the somewhat bready texture, for the second attempt, in addition to using a more hydrated dough and kneading for less time, I abandoned the roller pin and just did a hand stretch.

The second pie turned out great! Just what I was looking for. I will still be making a few slight adjustments to toppings, I am really happy with this dough following the procedure for my 2nd attempt. Here's the recipe in baker's percents:

I mix the salt, sugar and ADY dry and dump in the full amount of water at about 105 F and let sit for about 10-15 minutes. Put the flour in the mixing bowl, pour in the water/salt/sugar/yeast mixture, put mixer on stir for 2 minutes, then put mixer on speed 6 -- after about 30 seconds to a minute of kneading I add the oil and knead for a total of 5 minutes.

If I successfully figure out how to attach photos posted in order below are pie #1, slice of pie #1, pie #2, and slice of pie #2. (On pie #2, you'll note I used Hillshire Farms pepperoni on 1/2 and Boar's Head pepperoni on 1/2 -- preferred the more traditional Hillshire Farms between the 2)

I make pie #3 today (made the dough and sauce yesterday). Pie #3 adjustments include using Ezzo pepperoni, sauce made from Bonta Pizza Sauce instead of Hunt's paste, and using Grande mozzarella (still haven't decided whether I'll use the whole or part skim or some combination as I have both on hand). Results to follow.

I saw that information a while back at http://pizzakit.com/lcpk_itk_ingredients.asp, but I am not sure that the ingredients listed for the dough are those actually used in the individual stores. It may be for the pizza kit only, which I believe is part of a LC program for organizations to raise funds. If you click on the "how it works" tab, you will see some of the details of the program. Looking at the dough formulation, it bears similarities to a dough for a take-and-bake or bake-to-rise pizza that is to be baked in a home oven. It would be helpful if someone can clarify the matter. BTW, I found general nutrition information at the LC website, but not the dough and sauce formulations provided at the website for the pizza kits.

I found this site looking for the proportions in one of Sargento's cheese blends. A curious event unto itself. What caught my attention was the discussion on Little Caesar's pizza. I used to work for LC many years ago, and have continued the tradition of using their recipes for some of my current pizza making. If anyone is interested in knowing the LC ingredients and processes (by the book), I have most of them. I even still have signage and equipment left over from a local closing that didn't get transfered to corporate for whatever reason.

There are a couple of quick points I want to make right now though. The cheese blend LC uses is exactly 2 parts mozzarella to 1 part muenster (by weight). It's crumbled, not shredded, to maximize surface area for better thermal transfer. The dough is actually nothing very special. The manual lists basic ingredients anyone can find at any grocery store. I'll list them on this site, as well as enhanced recipes I've worked on over the past year if anyone wants it.

k.a. Red November (in the pizza business)

EDIT:I went back to read more of this thread and noticed justininiono made pinpoint accurate comments already. I congratulate you on remembering the 30 minute rest too. King Arthur's flour can be bought off the shelf by the way. The exact proportions of the yeast packet were described in the manual for the purpose of dealing with a shipment delay. We actually ran out of packets several times and had to make a run to the grocery store. Trust me, it's nothing special (sugar:salt:yeast; 3:1:1). There's a lot more to the mixing/kneading technique that the mechanical mixer provided than the ingredients themselves.

I would love to know the recipe. I am curious, the sauce recipe I posted tastes very close but something is missing. Did LC heat their sauce? Did they add Parmesan to their sauce? I can't remember for sure. I know their was no cooking surface at the store I worked for, but I can't remember if they had a portable bunsen burner or not.

Filter or Tap Water?Brands of Cheese and Flour?Sauce Recipe?

Thanks in advance.

I assumed their wasn't anything particularly special about their dough. I made the simple New York Pizza recipe on the main page, added more sugar and oil to Americanize it and it tasted very similar to LC's.

I'll just post a quick (incomplete) response now, and follow up a little later with more information. LC always prepared sauce cold. Heating the sauce at any point before the final oven conveyer ride would change the flavor. In fact, there was a prerequisite time the sauce had to spend in the walk-in before it was supposed to be used. This is the way I continue to make my sauce: cold aged.

The tap water versus filter water is an interesting question to answer, because the answer is both. LC restaurants, like many restaurants, are equipped with a kitchen-wide reverse osmoses filtration system. So the water that came from the tap was filtered.

LC had their own brand of cheese shipped through Blue Line. King Arthur, as it was pointed out by justininiono, is the source of their flour, especially in shortage local grocery runs.

I'm sorry if you were expecting more information on their sauce. I was going to say more about the preparation of the sauce (such as the tomato sauce's consistency before and after adding the water), but I didn't figure it was going to be all that tantalizing. Obviously you want a straight up exact composition of their spices. I'm afraid only one person in LC's upper management has that exact information. Being so close to the spices day in and day out long ago allowed me to detect pretty much everything in it, but again, what I know about the spices can't possibly be 100% perfect. As I said, I can tell you the preparations and substitutions outlined in the manual, but the sauce has no local store substitution. It must be bought through Blue Line. Even worse in the average consumer's situation is the fact that they used a special tomato grown just for their heavy puree (it is almost paste). The closest you'll ever come to a clone is knowing the spices in it and their quantities with relative precision. I will try to reconfirm what I know to be in the spice mix sometime over the next two weeks. I don't want to give you information that doesn't hold up. I can tell you this much right now:

I modeled my Red November Sauce #2 after the proportions of the major ingredients found in LC sauce. What's different are the proportions of the minor ingredients (i.e. herbs & spices). They have some of those spices in such small proportions, the only way to measure them accurately is to make enormous batches that would be far too impractical for the home pizza enthusiast.

I'm not sure what recipe you're interested in with a subject as generic as "pizza." I'm not going to go over every last pizza permutation. Was there something specific you wanted to know about the pizza? Their square pizzas are made with the same dough as the round pizzas. That's something I see people get confused about sometimes. I can tell you what patterns to use when putting toppings on the pizza. Please be specific.

The breadsticks are just a pizza dough ball stretched through the roller, stretched again lengthwise by hand, then you sprinkle some cornmeal on the rectangular baking sheet, place the stretched dough on the sheet and cut into 8 strips. Just like the pizza, you had to let the dough rest and rise on the sheet for at least 30 minutes before baking. Place the breadsticks in the first door on the conveyor oven to bake approximately 6 minutes. When the breadsticks come out brush clarified garlic butter on them and sprinkle parmesan cheese.