Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

Another book brimming with subjective insights.

Aside from global sales figures (&#225; la Mugler's Angel and Gaultier's Le Male), on what basis do Turin and Sanchez select their top 10? Balance? Quality of ingredients? Complexity? Perhaps simplicity? I'm always interested in what a perfumer has to say, but this is simply a revenue-gathering exercise.

Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

Evidently, I need to try Beyond Paradise Men.

I have run across its name one too many times recently - and now I am curious.

Two roads diverged in a yellow wood, and sorry I could not travel both and be one traveler, long I stood and looked down one as far as I could to where it bent in the undergrowth; Then took the other, as just as fair, ...... I shall be telling this with a sigh somewhere ages and ages hence: Two roads diverged in a wood, and I -- I took the one less traveled by, and that has made all the difference. - Robert Frost

Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

They might as well have had a monkey throw darts at a list with perfumes. Whatever their criteria may be, they are lightyears from mine. In fact, I find just about every second list posted on BN more convincing. Hopelessly French bias (not one Italian fragrance!) and the Anglo-American choices are ridiculous (well, he's always had this weird obsession with Beyond Paradise, one of the most mundane scents around)
Well, anyway, the only reason I am getting the book is because I enjoy his lively descriptions of perfumes, not because I need someone to tell me what's good. And I'm trusting this top ten is for PR purposes, not to be taken too seriously (i.e. his top ten change daily, just as mine )

Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

I imagine Mr. Turin sampling No. 88, Eau d'Hermes, Beyond Paradise and Cool Water. After intense sniffing, careful analyzing and two or three full wears of each fragrance, he chooses the latter two. Quite amazing. Maybe he is anosmic to... ehm... beauty?

Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

Originally Posted by Johnny_Ludlow

I imagine Mr. Turin sampling No. 88, Eau d'Hermes, Beyond Paradise and Cool Water. After intense sniffing, careful analyzing and two or three full wears of each fragrance, he chooses the latter two. Quite amazing. Maybe he is anosmic to... ehm... beauty?

It's obvious that you've never read any of the hundreds of reviews he's written starting back in the 80's. His grasp on beauty is as solid as it comes. He's also reputed to have a nose on par with the best of them. I know all but one of the ten listed and they're all quality fragrances. Azzaro Pour Homme is still the best fougere ever made. Pour Monsieur, New York, Ormonde Man, Eau de Guerlain, Habit Rouge, Timbuktu and Derby are all exceptional. Cool Water is also a quality fragrance (much better than anything else by Davidoff) regardless of the groupthink that says otherwise. I'm sure we'll learn more about why he included it in the list. There are actually quite a few people who prefer it to Green Irish Tweed (me included), so it's not surprising that he would as well. Eau d'Hermes has always been among his highest rated scents. Recalling his 2005 blog and other sources, I remember him liking Rive Gauche Pour Homme, L'Homme de Coeur, Yatagan, Balenciaga Pour Homme, L'Air du Desert Marocain, The Third Man and a wide variety of others. You'll be surprised to find out what he likes and dislikes and why, and you'll learn a lot of other things in the process. Who knows why he/she made that particular top ten list anyway. There are nuances that can't be discerned without further investigation. His/her women's list could also hardly be better. Who knows what input Tania Sanchez had on any of this, but going by what she's written on other sites she definitely has good taste.

I love his words but I sure as hell don't expect to agree with every one of his reviews, lists, or otherwise. Not by a longshot. I do 180's with the perceptions of the best reviewers on this site all the time. I've seen bits of the book and on top of the approximately 1200 + reviews, it also contains a plethora of fascinating info not found anywhere else. There's an in depth general fragrance discussion that is said to be one of the best ever written. One thing's for sure, Turin's been around. He's larger than life and has a colossal amount of knowledge about perfumes and the fragrance industry that few if any can match. Fortunately, he's able to transmit that information in a way that few can. He's well respected by not only his peers, but by the perfumers themselves. I liked the last two books about him/by him, but this is a totally different animal that holds all kinds of surprises.

Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

I think their criteria are mainly whether a fragrance was special and renewing at the time (and of course beautiful in a way). I don't have a crush on Cool Water nor GIT myself, but I suppose it is very good at what it does. Really looking forward to this guide!

Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

Originally Posted by pluran

His women's list could hardly be better. All brilliant.

These are all good choices and Turin would be the first to say that "top ten lists" are just a parlor game. Still: Four Guerlains and not a single Caron ? Bois de Violette the best Lutens scent? Meh...

Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

Originally Posted by the_good_life

These are all good choices and Turin would be the first to say that "top ten lists" are just a parlor game. Still: Four Guerlains and not a single Caron ? Bois de Violette the best Lutens scent? Meh...

I felt the same way the first time I read how much he liked Bois de Violette, but I tried it again several times and found it to be one of the best blended fragrance I've ever smelled. It's not particularly sweet, wears beautifully with magical development and an extended drydown, putting out sublime sillage and has good longevity as expected. I have a friend who wears it and says it's the most evocative fragrance she's ever worn. It smells great on her. I love it but it's not my style and I'm not that big on cedar which becomes stronger as the fragrance develops.

The Carons started going down hill in the early nineties and that decline has continued. They're still good, but what you smell in the urn extraits isn't nearly what it used to be.

Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

pluran, that was an excellent answer.

I also appreciate his views alot, and my remark was not meant to be taken seriously. I tend to agree with him in general, and it's absolutely certain that he has more sophisticated nose than I do. So no, he is not anosmic to beauty. That was kind of a bad joke to begin with .

Anyway, I still stand by my original post. It's hard for me to believe that he actually thinks that the fragrances in his list that I mentioned are superior blends to to the examples I gave. Making these lists is kind of problematic, and it seems to me that he gave more emphasis on the originality of a fragrance time it was released, than I would in my lists. Other than obvious reason of personal preference, that might have a part to play in explaining these differences in opinions.

Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

a snippet from LT's older blog.

"A properly romantic perfume should incite to adventure. Wait for autumn to come, remember Radiguet's "Le
Diable au Corps" and pay a visit to Serge Lutens' enchanted shop in the Jardins du Palais Royal. Once there, boldly demand Bois de Violette. This miraculous fragrance, a love story in a bottle, is a variation on Shiseido's Féminité Du Bois and restores the synthetic violet of methyl ionone to its rightful place as the most poetic molecule ever made."

Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

I'm in the "like cool water better than git camp" and have been for many years. Cool water is brilliant in composition, if not in ingredient quality (on which criterion GIT would definitely win). Thing is, I just don't like the violet note in GIT (apart from very occasionally).

Just because something is popular, doesn't mean it is bad. Think of Habit Rouge (a sixties classic, very popular, still sells) that could well be how cool water will be regarded in about 10 years.

"Don’t try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. ” - Henri Matisse.
"Wear R de Capucci" - Hirch Duckfinderreviews

Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

Originally Posted by Ruggles

I am looking forward to the book, but after reading this excerpted list it just may be another ride down that same old road. It's like Conde Nast Traveller reporting that Venice is beautiful. Who ever said it wasn't?

Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

I'm a little puzzled by the tone of the responses here. Criticism is, and has always been, a subjective response to a particular art form, be it literature, drama, art, film, or even fashion. Ideally one wants to read a critic who has a substantive knowledge of the history of his or her area as well as a thorough understanding of its forms, and who can appreciate innovation within a context of classicism. Criticism is, in short, informed engagement - with both art and the critic's audience. The best critics will always lead us to either discovery or to renewed appreciation, and will impart enough of their own knowledge to give us a stronger foundation on which to make their own judgments. Perfume is an interesting case in that there really is no established critical tradition, or at least there hadn't been one until Turin wrote the first guide, and until the net and sites like Basenotes made the development of one possible.

"I don't agree with X" or "Who is X to be telling me what smells good?" miss the point, as to expect a critic's judgments to always match one's own is a pretty hopeless exercise.

"Oh, my Lolita, I have only words to play with!"
- Vladimir Nabokov, Lolita

Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

Originally Posted by Morgan Creek

I'm a little puzzled by the tone of the responses here. Criticism is, and has always been, a subjective response to a particular art form, be it literature, drama, art, film, or even fashion. Ideally one wants to read a critic who has a substantive knowledge of the history of his or her area as well as a thorough understanding of its forms, and who can appreciate innovation within a context of classicism. Criticism is, in short, informed engagement - with both art and the critic's audience. The best critics will always lead us to either discovery or to renewed appreciation, and will impart enough of their own knowledge to give us a stronger foundation on which to make their own judgments. Perfume is an interesting case in that there really is no established critical tradition, or at least there hadn't been one until Turin wrote the first guide, and until the net and sites like Basenotes made the development of one possible.

"I don't agree with X" or "Who is X to be telling me what smells good?" miss the point, as to expect a critic's judgments to always match one's own is a pretty hopeless exercise.

Well said Morgan Creek. Glad to see someone around here is functioning at a higher level.

Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

Well said Morgan Creek. Glad to see someone around here is functioning at a higher level.

Ditto.

I don't see what all the fuss is about. The female list is pretty conservative and uncontroversial. The male list is a balance of classics with a few surprises (Cool Water and Beyond Paradise).

Top 10 lists, whether they be from a famous perfume writer or the newest BNer, are just that - a subjective snapshot in time of what that person likes at that moment, based on whatever criteria they think are important (classicism, uniqueness, impact on the art...)

While the list doesn't match up with my top 10, there's a fair few in there which I regard very highly (Azzaro, Habit Rouge, Chanel PM, Derby and Cool Water).

It's just like bagging Robert Parker in the wine world. A mix of jealousy, tall poppy syndrome and an unwillingness to acknowledge that critics are subjective - they are not asking us to take it as gospel.

Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

Originally Posted by hirch_duckfinder

I'm in the "like cool water better than git camp" and have been for many years. Cool water is brilliant in composition, if not in ingredient quality (on which criterion GIT would definitely win). Thing is, I just don't like the violet note in GIT (apart from very occasionally).

Just because something is popular, doesn't mean it is bad. Think of Habit Rouge (a sixties classic, very popular, still sells) that could well be how cool water will be regarded in about 10 years.

The list maybe somewhat of a PR schtick because his original 1994 reviews guide states that Cool Water isn't as good as GIT. But then his preferences might have changed over the years. There are many classics which didn't make the list and it wa a surprise to see Bulgari Black amongst the top ten! Eitherways I don't think this top ten is ever going to change but it will be amusing and interesting to read the other reviews.

Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

First of all, I am going to buy the book. I have pre-ordered it on Amazon., WOW!
He's a serious nose, a serious scientist/chemist, a serious critic. I think he realizes that he's unique in his field and has little competition on many fronts. Azzaro and Number 5 are in "Top 10", Wow!

Last edited by Kevin Guyer; 1st April 2008 at 04:44 AM.
Reason: self-censored