Speaking at Microsoft's financial analysts meeting today, CEO Steve Ballmer was refreshingly realistic about the company's struggles in smartphones and tablets. "Mobile devices. We have almost no share."

Right. Now that Ballmer himself admits it, can we please settle the discussion? Windows Phone has been a failure up until now.

Considering the market is very different now, yes. It is an achievement.

It is an achievement anyone could accomplish, if they were willing to take a big enough loss. That is what Microsoft is doing right now. All that cash sent to Nokia, all that advertisement money for Windows Phone - that's what "achieved" this. Has anyone calculated how much that amounts to per sold Windows Phone?

I should commend them on that? Sure, I'll play along. "You've got piles of money, Microsoft. Well done!"

It is an achievement anyone could accomplish, if they were willing to take a big enough loss. That is what Microsoft is doing right now. All that cash sent to Nokia, all that advertisement money for Windows Phone - that's what "achieved" this. Has anyone calculated how much that amounts to per sold Windows Phone?

I should commend them on that? Sure, I'll play along. "You've got piles of money, Microsoft. Well done!"

How's that for absurdly small of me?

It takes money to make money. The only thing is that Microsoft's offering has enough merit to put the money behind it. Makes sense that they would invest and leverage in order to push adoption. In a different way Google is also doing the same thing. They are not making much at all giving away Android. The Nexus line is just there to make sure that Samsung does not make them their bitch.

Google is also doing the same thing. They are not making much at all giving away Android..

No, I imagine giving away something doesn't generate much direct income. But they do make a lot of money on mobile users. Android is not a loss leader.

Nelson thought I should congratulate Microsoft on being a loss... third place?

Fact is that Microsoft is pretty much fighting to stay relevant and are prepared to spend enormous amounts of money on that. And in doing so, they aren't really doing the consumers any favors. Competition works very poorly when one player doesn't need to care about a working business model.

When Microsoft can show that they're actually have a sustainable niche that didn't come from killing off competitors with long-running loss projects, then we can start talking about milestones.

It is an achievement anyone could accomplish, if they were willing to take a big enough loss. That is what Microsoft is doing right now. All that cash sent to Nokia, all that advertisement money for Windows Phone - that's what "achieved" this. Has anyone calculated how much that amounts to per sold Windows Phone?

You obviously have no idea how real businesses work. It is completely normal for companies to lose massive amounts of money for many years developing new markets.

In the mining and oil industries it is reasonably common for companies to invest $10+ billion and up to 20 years before a new project become profitable.

MS is a boring mature company run by adults. It will probably be around long after most of the other "exciting" tech companies such as Google and Apple are nothing more than historical footnotes.