With just 17 or so flights left on the shuttle manifest before the program is terminated in 2010, NASA's three remaining orbiters can only expect to fly about five missions each. As it turns out, NASA now plans to retire Atlantis in 2008, after five flights, rather than put it through a required overhaul and to "fly out" the remaining half-dozen missions on the manifest with Discovery and Endeavour.

But shuttle program manager Wayne Hale told Kennedy Space Center employees today that Atlantis will not be given to a museum, at least not right away. Instead, the space shuttle will be used for spare parts to help keep Discovery and Endeavour healthy through the end of the program.

"Atlantis will be coming due for an OMDP (orbiter maintenance down period) in the '08 time frame," Hale said. "And we looked the manifest and laid it out and we believe we can fly the '08, '09 and '10 time frame with Discovery and Endeavour.

"Discovery just came out of OMDP and Endeavour is just about to come out of OMDP. So it looks like the right thing to do is not to put Atlantis through another OMDP, which would get it ready to go fly maybe just at the very end, in 2010, but rather use it was a parts donor, if that's the word, for the other vehicles.

"So we're going to try to keep it in as near flight ready condition as we can without putting it through an OMDP so we can use those parts," Hale said. "Quite frankly, people are already calling us and asking us can they display one of our orbiters in their museum after we're done with it. I'm not giving anybody anything until we're all agreed the station is complete and the shuttle's job is done. In the sense that we're talking about mothballing, I'm not sure that's the term I'd use."

All shuttles are required to undergo periodic inspections and modifications to maintain their overall health. Such OMDP overhauls can take a year or more to complete.

Seems like yesterday sometimes we watched in awe as Columbia ushered in the Shuttle era in 1981. People have grown up now their whole lives with America flying shuttles. She still fills me with awe, I have always thought the shuttle stack looks cathedral-like on the pad. Time for shuttle to finish her work and move on to the next vehicles, as ugly and boring as the CEV looks, it will take us much farther in more ways then one. I hope we will see more winged spacecraft from private industry. There is a beauty to machines with wings.

In the Air Force, we called Donor aircraft "Hanger Queens" cause as often as someone would sneak in a steal parts, and as long as it took to get parts, they never made it off the ground.

Every so often we had to take all the parts off of one aircraft, put them on the Queen, and get the wheels off the ground so it could maintain a mission capable status. Then take all the parts back off, and there she'd sit till next time.

So Atlantis is going to be a Queen. Sad.

4
posted on 02/17/2006 7:49:03 PM PST
by Jotmo
("Voon", said the mattress.)

I think it's possible the remaining flights of the shuttles will be cut back quite a bit. If possible, some private launch companies could try to fill in the gap. I think Griffin would like to do this and terminate shuttle operations as soon as possible.

We could have explored half the solar system by now, if not for the imagined need to produce retired astronaughts who travel the country telling school kids about their heroic achievement of breeding worms in zero-gravity.

Astronauts build space stations, deploy space telescopes and probes to other worlds too. They spacewalk as well and have rescued Hubble more then once. They ride the fire into orbit and come back home at Mach 24. I would trade places with them on launch day in a New York minute. It still fuels passion in people. Very much so.

If I recall correctly, the shuttles were but one part of a comprehensive system for our conquest of space. They were to be the short-haul 'trucks' for the building, and servicing, of a real space station. This space station was to be an orbitting factory to build the real exploration and colonization spacecraft.

It is too bad this system was never seen through. We would probably be launching colonization missions to mars by now.

That's "space station", singular. The station also does such things as breeding worms, and other things so important that most people who follow the news can't name a single example.

"deploy space telescopes and probes to other worlds too. They spacewalk as well and have rescued Hubble more then once."

There could have been several new "Hubbles" for the cost of the shuttle, only abandoning the first failure. In any case, rockets do the job - and without killing as many government workers whose annoying families we now have to compensate.

"They ride the fire into orbit and come back home at Mach 24."

Very, very true.... Pointless, but true!

"I would trade places with them on launch day in a New York minute."

I, too, would screw taxpayers in order to joyride if I could -- I just need to invent some excuses, the way that NASA does.

In the Air Force, we called Donor aircraft "Hanger Queens" cause as often as someone would sneak in a steal parts, and as long as it took to get parts, they never made it off the ground.

Actually, you're referring to the "Cann Bird." The Hangar Queen is the aircraft that has been sitting for longer than 30 days, usually as a result of being the Cann Bird. By the way, getting a Hangar Queen is usually a black mark on any aircraft maintenance officer or Chief's record, as it indicates poor fleet management.

However, you are right, Atlantis' destiny is to end its days as the NASA Hangar Queen....truly sad.

And astronauts bring back the visions of space, they bring back what its like to see our earth as an outsider. They bring back what its like to be a child of earth. To see our world as it truly is, an oasis in a vast black expanse.

They take human presence beyond our world. No machine can do this.

They teach us that the sky is not the limit, that there ARE no limits.

They keep an AMERICAN presense in space. If we dont. Someone else will certainly take the lead. China is seeking the high ground now.

There are reasons why this nation is where it is today. Reasons why any of us are here at all. Brave people took the risks and went beyond the horizon. They did so on ships they knew may not return and on imperfect wings.

Astronaut Story Musgrave.....

"We have been a frontier culture. We were born out of exploration, we were born out of adventure. We were born out of the plains and the mountains. We've been a very physical kind of culture. And so, if you look at adventure, if you look at exploration, if you look at immersion in nature, a physical culture, and all those things, you can see directly how space flight relates to the way America has been born and how it evolved."

"You have to keep pushing the frontier not just because it's there, but because that's how we find things that end up changing humanity," -Paul Hill, Mission Control

Why Space, Why Explore?

Astronaut Story Musgrave...........

We have no choice, Sir. It is the Nature of Humanity, it is the Nature of Life

The Globe was created and Life Evolved, and you look at every single cubic millimeter on this Earth, You can go 30,000 feet down below the Earth surface, You can go 40,000 feet up in the air and Life is There. When you look at the globe down there, you see Teeming Life Everywhere

It is the Power of Life, And maybe I am not just a Human up here, you know. Now Life is Leaping off the Planet. It is heading to other parts of the Solar System, other parts of the Universe

There are those kinds of Pressures. It isn't simply politics, it is not simply technology, it is really not just the essence of humanity, but it is sort of also, you could look at it as maybe the Essence of Life. I think Teilhard de Chardin, in Phenomenon of Man, I believe he put that incredibly well. So those kind of Forces are at Work. It is the nature of humans to be exploratory and to Push On

Yes, it costs resources and it does cost a lot, and there is a risk, there is a penalty, there is a down side, but Exploration and Pioneering, I think those are the critical things, it is the Essence of what Human Beings are, and that is to try to understand their Universe and to try to participate in the entire Universe and not just their little Neighborhood -Story Musgrave

One of my most convincing arguments for space exploration is the analogy that Earth itself is a spacecraft. Everything we learn about how to function and live in space applies directly to our spacehip Earth. How to recycle air, water, how to generate and use power efficiently, how to grow food in closed ecosystems. All of it is important. All of this can benefit mankind in a world with a fast growing population. Understanding other worlds is how we understand OUR world better, to understand how it formed and where it is going. Its our only home for now.

"We must not cease from exploration, and at the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we began, and to know it for the first time." T.S. Eliot

President Bush at the Columbia memorial at JSC................

"The cause of exploration and discovery is not an option we choose, It is a desire written in the human heart."

And at the announcement of new American space policy...........

"Mankind is drawn to the heavens for the same reason we were once drawn into unknown lands and across the open sea. We choose to explore space because doing so improves our lives, and lifts our national spirit."

Gallup survey.....

"More than three-fourths (77%) of the American public say they support a newplan for space exploration that would include a stepping-stone approach to returnthe space shuttle to flight, complete assembly of the space station, build areplacement for the shuttle, go back to the Moon and then on to Mars and beyond"

I just wish that robotic craft had been around in 1492...that way the Spanish royals could have sent a probe over to see what the New World looked like rather than sending humans. That certainly would have worked out better. /sarcasm off

Ah yes. We would put the parts back on the Can Bird just to get it's wheels off the ground to avoid getting a Hanger Queen designation. Then, back in the Tab-V and the parts went back. Now I remember.

Our Can Bird happened to be the Wing Commanders aircraft. Was POS it was. Weighed about 1000 lbs more than all the other planes because of all the paint jobs to keep it pretty. Had a chrome gun muzzle (A-10) and they would never let us put retread tires on it, only new ones with the white wheels. The crew chief was just like his bird, all spiffied up looking good, but not worth a bucket of warm spit.

What memories.

Sorry. Back on topic now....

16
posted on 02/17/2006 9:39:07 PM PST
by Jotmo
("Voon", said the mattress.)

"I just wish that robotic craft had been around in 1492...that way the Spanish royals could have sent a probe over to see what the New World looked like rather than sending humans. That certainly would have worked out better."

Luckily we have robots in 2006, and those risks are not necessary. The Spanish may have used them too, if they had them, which says nothing of their sponsoring a trip without robots as was actually done.

Now you may suggest that I don't recognize sarcasm, or that yours was so overpowering that I should have relented and stop using logic because I lack your (non-) humor.

Our Can Bird happened to be the Wing Commanders aircraft. Was POS it was. Weighed about 1000 lbs more than all the other planes because of all the paint jobs to keep it pretty. Had a chrome gun muzzle (A-10) and they would never let us put retread tires on it, only new ones with the white wheels. The crew chief was just like his bird, all spiffied up looking good, but not worth a bucket of warm spit.

Where was this...and do you recall the jet's tail number? I was involved with A-10s earlier in my career...

I've had the privilege of living along the space coast within easy view of the shuttle launches (and all the other launches at the cape) for the past 8 years. I usually ride out to Cocoa Beach to watch the launches or just watch them from where I live but it is definately worth it to get the bus ticket that takes you within about 5 miles (which is as close as the public can get). Even from that distance the launch is bright enough to hurt your eyes and loud enough to hurt your ears. It is truly an impressive thing to watch and the Shuttle has allowed us to do some pretty amazing things.

However, it is definately time to move on. The Shuttle is an old system, it is not as safe as it could be and it is very expensive to operate. My only worry is that they will commit to ending flights before a suitable replacement is ready.

Im going to make it a point to get to the east coast and see a shuttle launch someday. Im on the other side of the country. I imagine the shuttle derived unmanned stack for getting the mission specific hardware up there will make a bit of noise too. Its going to be a monster. The manned CEV rocket will not be as impressive.

My point, of course, is that humans explore..it is part of our genetic code. And the thrill of exploring the unknown is not satisfied by seeing pictures sent back from probes. Why else would we have journeyed to the South Pole..or climbed Mt. Everest...or have gone to the moon.

Of course, the payback in tech transfer from our space activities has more than paid for itself. In the 1970s..after the height of Apollo...the average return to the GDP by efficiencies gained from tech transfer was 23 dollars for each dollar invested in NASA. By the 1990s, that figure had dropped to 7 to 1, but still impressive. Of all of our federal investments, the NASA investment has been one of our best. Just ask any stroke victim learning how to regain their balance using machines first developed for astronauts returning from space...or a person whose life was saved by early detection from an MRI. I could go on, but I know there are people on this board who would refuse to support our human space endeavors no matter what evidence of their necessity is given...I guess they would just rather turn that part of the human journey over to the Chinese.

There have been 3 formal space stations: Soyuz maintained by cosmonauts; Skylab repaired in space and maintained by astronauts; and the ISS built and maintained by both astronauts and cosmonauts. There have also been a number of on-board SpaceLabs flown in the shuttle bay that were essentially short-term space stations based on their configuration.

28
posted on 02/17/2006 11:11:03 PM PST
by Kirkwood
("When the s*** hits the fan, there is enough for everyone.")

"We have whole planets to explore, we have new worlds to build. We have a solar system to roam in. And if only a tiny fraction of the human race reaches out toward space, the work they do there will totally change the lives of all the billions of humans who remain on earth, just as the strivings of a handful of colonists in the new world totally changed the lives of everyone in Europe, Asia & Africa." -Astronaut Dick Scobee (A note found in his briefcase by his wife after he was lost on Challenger)

His widow June wrote.......

"Had Dick left the note in his briefcase for us to find if something happened? Did he write it on scratch paper to use to quote in a speech? All we'll ever know is that when we most needed a message, it was there. He left for us his dream for the world, his vision for space exploration."

We could have explored half the solar system by now, if not for the imagined need to produce retired astronaughts who travel the country telling school kids about their heroic achievement of breeding worms in zero-gravity.

Or if they put more priority on real science instead of putting the first amputee midget porn star from turdworldistan into space.

33
posted on 02/18/2006 4:37:25 AM PST
by Mulder
(“The spirit of resistance is so valuable, that I wish it to be always kept alive" Thomas Jefferson)

Type 'scramble on the web' into Google. It is a database where you will find military serials. The images are simply generated by putting the serial into Google images. Just on the off-chance that the photographer labelled it by serial! Couldn't find your other bird, but it its nose art has been photographed.

The present ISS is but one of a long line of predecessors. First Salyut-1, then Skylab, followed by Salyut-4, Salyut-6, and Salyut-7. These were followed by Mir which was on orbit for 15 incredible years.

37
posted on 02/19/2006 10:40:27 PM PST
by FreedomCalls
(It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")

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