Recently it has come to our attention, that in a discussion under a blog of a Scandinavian paganist called Varg Vikernes, there is a discussion accusing Bulgarian Paganist of several„deadly sins“ for the Pan-European pagan community. These deadly sins include to the most, reluctance to join international gatherings and embrace internationalism. Such a preposterous act of non-collaborating with the emerging globalisation of something deeply etnically-bonded such as paganism has with no doubt left us with a negative impression, in those who willingly or not, are following the same agenda that christianity does. How so?

I am utterly curious of finding the difference between the concepts of „Christian United Europe“, and „Pagan United Europe“, if in the latter each national god is immideately made equal to a God in another mythology based on sharing few simple characteristics, while at the same time both personages being totally different. I am equally prying to understand, why different heithen beliefs are suddently unified to serve the Euro-centrist agenda, of creating a common European identity and thus destroying the heritage of the hundreds of ethnic groups that compose Europe, which to be perfectly objective have a lot more differences than similarities whatsoever.

The „Tangra Bdi“ Society has proven to be the independent voice of Bulgarian Tangrists, which does not serve any political agenda, let alone the Brussels Dictatorship called „European Union“. In that sense, we are totally and unequivocally against the promotion of Thracians as being bulgarian ancestors. Promotion which was coincidentally revived with the start of the negotiations of accession of Bulgaria to the EU. To be precise, the books of the long-forgotten national traitor dr. Gantcho Tsenov, who was expelled from Bulgaria in 1937, were republised precicely 1998, creating the begining of the new phenomenon known as Trakomania (obsession with the idea that we are are european early christians converted by Apostle Paul, in 1st century BC, as the fairytale of Gantcho Tsenov Goes).

Furthermore, Tangra Bdi following the fact that there are no slavs as a ethnically-bound metagroup, but only slavs as a language group defined in 17-18 century, has no need to identify Bulgarians with vague and harmless concepts that were also created and promoted to serve an political agenda (one a little bit older, but nevertheless equally disastreous for Bulgaria).

Additionally, our society cannot stand silent when ancient Bulgars are once again made equal to „mongols“, procuring the feeling of guilt among Bulgarians, for the sole fact that the Bulgarian history is largely falsified. Comprising of Historians, Archeologists, Theologians, Anthropologists, Biologists, and others, our community takes the position supported by numerous material facts and ancient chronicles that the Bulgarians are of Iranic origin, and so is their religion, calendar system, customs and etc, all of which bear direct parallels with the corresponding in the etnicities of the Pamir Mountain such as the Bartangs, who also have the deity Tangra.

Concerning the so-called European Brotherhood, we at the Tangra Bdi society have a strong belief that Bulgarians can only be brothers with other Bulgarians. It is therefore Tangra Bdi, has fruitfull connections with Volga Bulgarians, Balkarians, Macedonians and also Bulgarian minorities in the Balkan peninsula.

Lastly we as a society have no funding and any political connections whatsoever. We do not embrace the theory created in the beggining of the 20th century that we are “half-turkic, half-slavic“, rather we point out to the fact that we are neither of those, but 100% Bulgarian. We are also not concerned with the concept of white, which we obviously are, since the white race realm does not end in the Ural Mountain, but in the Tarim Basin, covering a great majority of Eurasia.

Finally, we wish to adress the fellow Bulgarian who participated in the discussion under the nickhame Славянин but failed to respond to the Serbian user „Alexander“, who made the statement: „If you do not know who you to hit hit Bulgarian (old saying)“ By taking no position on this direct insult, this once again proves that any people who are involved in Panslavism and other forms of international ass-licking, are actively and passively engaged in antibulgarian propaganda.

As a Bulgarian I can use slavic or thracian names. I could also use proto-bulgarian names, though very little is known about them, and even that is subjected to relentless propaganda and disinformation from different parties.

The original Bulgars are not even Europeans, but Mongoloid race, so I don’t see why we should help them in any way. Modern Bulgaria is Bulgar in name only — and the Mongols living there are mainly Turks — and a few Tatars from the Golden Horde.

That is exactly the propaganda I’m talking about, it dates back to soviet times and is intended to bring down our national identity and lump us with the russians. There’s a lot of evidence from modern historians that proto-bulgars are actually of indo-european descent. If the bulgars are mongoloids, so are the magyars anyway.
Don’t speak so confidently of something you know little about.

He didn’t say you are mongoloids, he said that the people from who the name derives were Mongolian, which is pretty well known. It’s probably similar to “Hungarians” bearing the name of a Turkic invading people when they are generally European just like the rest of us.

Sorry, pro-”Bulgarian” so-called Pagan websites who are anti-Slav and anti-Thracian (ergo anti-European!) and who advice blonde and blue-eyed individuals to STAY AWAY and tell them “THIS IS NOT FOR YOU”, and show pictures of Tatars on horseback, doesn’t sound very EUROPEAN or Indo-European to me. So can you explain that?

Those websites are indeed full of shit and I would advise you to stay away from them as I do. I don’t know where you got the impression that I support them. They are anti-european and anti-bulgarian as well, what they are is pro-turk, probably supported by the turk party.

The proto-bulgars are more likely to be of scythian origin as well. Their earliest known domain is in Scythia, dating back from the III and IVth century. The little that is known about their language and belief is very different from what is known about turkic tribes. What is known is that the turkic tribes from that period were nomadic, and the bulgars had a state. Byzantine chronicles refer to a “Great old Bulgaria” from the VIIth century that encompassed approximately the territory of present-day Ukraine.

Our Bulgaria was formed in the beginning of the VIIIth century, when part of the bulgars migrated southwest after Great old Bulgaria collapsed. They immediately formed an alliance with the slavs already present there and found a state together, that lasts to this day.

Now I don’t see slavs forming an alliance with the turks so easilly, or any kind of asians for that matter. Do you?

Okay, but the Great Old Bulgaria is described as aKhanate, in other words an Asian nation, ruled by Kubrat (a Turkish name meaning “Wolf”). That still doesn’t sound very Indo-European or European to me. Why did the Byzantines describe it as a Khanate and why did their leader have a Turkish name if it was not Turkish/Asian?

There is absolutely no direct archeologacal evidence to confirm that the title “khan” was ever used. The byzantine chronicles date from a later period when the lands of GoB were occupied by tatars – a fact that likely caused confusion. Same with the rest of the turkic names. Besides, where do you know that those names were turkic anyway?

You talk about scandinavian history being exploited and falsified en masse by the christians and jews, yet so readily accept the wikipedia version of bulgarian history.

Anyway, i’m tired of arguing about this, I feel closest to the slavic paganism myself and that’s what I choose to identify with.

Don’t get me wrong. I didn’t mean to argue against your views, to force my view on anyone; I only wanted to hear whatever you have to say against the official version of history. I agree that we should not trust this official theory if there is evidecne suggesting we shouldn’t.

In the case of Bulgaria I — possibly living in ignorance — believe (believe; not know) the population is mostly Slav and Thracian, and that only the name of the nation is from Asia, because the rulers of that nationat one point were Bulgars.

I also see that many anti-European (Turkish?) “Bulgarians” are claiming the name of Bulgars.

Finally, I simply wish that all Europeans in what today is called Bulgaria will identify themselves as Europeans, and not as something that might actually be Asian. It is much easier for the rest of us to call you brothers if you do — and at least I see you as such.

You are right about the population, a recent genetic study shows mostly slavic genes with mediterranean (thracian) admixture.

The anti-european and pro-turkish sentiments are actually perpetuated by certain turkish elements in our parlament, a party called “Movement for Rights and Freedoms” that describes itself as “liberal”. It’s head is called Achmed Dogan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il1XYGL8jWA ), why it is allowed to exist, I do not know (it is close to the socialist traitor party).

The point is, we are also affected by anti-europeans, only they defend turkish interests instead of jewish ones.

16 Responses to Official position of the „Tangra Bdi“ society regarding the Anti-Bulgarian propaganda in a discussion in Varg Vikernes’s blog

Apparently, this reply was not allowed in the blog the original discussion took place. This shows only so much, about the presense of dignity, honour and honesty among the „thuleanperspective“ admin crew

BS 03:42 PMLess info“Varg Vikernes“ To:tangrabg@gmx.com
You don’t reply to anything I say. You either don’t understand what we fight for, in which case you are either ignorant or stupid, or you chose not to relate to it, and instead you just talk shit.

Your Tangra-religion is Turkish, and my guess is that so are you. Most Bulgarians are Europeans; mainly Slavs or Thracians though, and I support them.

Hey, I saw you posted on my blog to read this. It seems you are disappointed with thulean perspective. Since you say the historical „facts“ have been mutilated by those with political-religious motivation, it would be helpful to hear more of your information. Instead of me translating everything here, can you point me to any verifiable sources that may further illustrate what you say? I don’t think there is an agenda to destroy any individual European identity. There is however, an agenda to avoid conflicts with brothers of the European paganists. Like Varg said, „we should not trust this official theory if there is evidence suggesting we shouldn’t“

I first wish to serve you my appologies for posting on your blog. I did so, because Varg did not allow my post to appear in his original discussion. To be honest I am not dissapointed as much of the Thuleanperspective, as I am from that particular convesation which involved some deep stereotypes and very negative feelings towards our nation.

I do believe historical facts have been mutilated, and its largely an offshoot from event that happened a long time ago. Today, the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences official stand is that protoBulgarians are a ethnic group of iranic character. Leading Bulgarian scientists with renown fame such as Dimitar Bakalov, Petar Dobrev, Bozidar Dimitrov, Aleksandar Aleksiev, and many others share this conviction and have published plenty of proof(sadly I doubt there is that many on the Iranian theory of Bulgarian origin in English). The problem is, that this modern view is neither reflexed in the last edition of Enciclopedia Britanica, nor in Wikipedia, which is mostly a political statement, that the current „half-slav, half-turk“ model is not to be changed to „neither, but 100% bulgarian“ model, which has proven dominant among our scientific community.

I would have avoided ever writing this, if it didn’t concerned Bulgarians in a word slander which was uncalled for, and in my opinion ludicruos.

I respect Vargs opinion, that you have quoted, however, I cannot respect the Eurocentric approach that disregards the fact that there are white people outside Europe, and that a lot of the nations in today Europe are indeed coming from Asia descending from Scythians and Sarmatians (but not only)

Mr. Ohsun,
No need to apologize, anyone and everyone is more than welcome to post on my blog. At the end of the comment here you say, „Scythians and Sarmations (but not only)“ What is – but not only- referring to? I’m still unclear. When you say „white“ what do you mean? Besides the unnecessary derogatory remarks I still can’t quite see what the main area of discontent would be since you have the unrevised accurate information from reputable Bulgarian scientists. It may be useful to find someone who can translate the words and inform people around the world of such unabated findings regarding your heritage. I know this, since a tremendous amount of history has been purposefully „paraphrased“ i.e. propagandized. I hope that through reasoning and intellect a healthy middle ground should be reachable. One time I played bass guitar with a highly talented Bulgarian drummer. The Bulgarian I knew were very nice to me.

There are no objective Bulgarian „historians“, merely propagandists. It’s bizarre that Bulgarians speak a Slavic language, yet claim that Slavs don’t exist and that it’s panslavic Russian propaganda claiming that Bulgarians are Slavs. At the same time they claim it’s the Russians who made up the Turkic origin of the Bulgars. Why would they insist on claiming Bulgars are both Turks and Slavs? That makes no sense. If there was really a Russian conspiracy, I would think they would have also have insisted on a Slavic origin for the Bulgars as well. The Iranic theory has been invented because Bulgarians can’t accept the fact their ancestors were Turkic, since Bulgarians were ruled by Turks for 500 years and hate Turks. The 9th century Volga Bulgar scipt has been clearly deciphered as Turkic. Everything from clan names, military titles, and many of the names of their khans were Turkic. Mänchen-Helfen goes into this thoroughly in his book „The World of the Huns.“ In addition, even your own anthropogists admit that physical remains from Bulgar graves demonstrate at least some mongoloid admixture. Where did this admixture come from? The Saltovo-Mayaki culture on the Pontic Steepe. That’s where the Iranic Alans mixed with the incoming more mongoloid Turkic Bulgars. So by the time the Bulgars arrived in the Balkans, there was definitely probably an Iranic sub-stratum, but the elite was Turkic-speaking. Even the now deceased Prof. Rasho Rashev found this to be the most plausible scenario. But the Bulgar element was not the Iranic Alanic element, which was separate. It was precisely the Bulgar super-stratum which was Turkic. It’s also strange that though genetic Bulgar input was rather small in modern Bulgarians, Bulgarian nationalists insist on overinflating their significance while deflating the significance of the Slavs and Thracians. You denigrate your own European heritage in favor of a very tenuous and highly mythologized Asiatic one. The probability is much higher that you have Slavic/Thracian genetic ancestry than any relationship to the peoples calling themselves Bulgars currently in Tatarstan. But it’s because of the name, „Bulgaria“, that has caused this strange psychological complex among the Bulgarians, and why it is by your own admission you ironically feel more of a kinship with them than to white Europeans. Interestingly, it seems to be the very reason your brothers in Macedonia don’t want to have anything to do with you. They don’t want to be asiatic Bulgars and prefer to identify with their European region. I’m an American of Bulgarian extraction, but I must say, the Bulgarian mentality is very strange. You claim to be proud of yourselves and your nation, but obviously it comes at the condition that you can prove to yourselves that the people whose name you bear didn’t have any Turkic traces. In the end, it seems that the hyper nationalism is an over-compensation for what is in reality a nagging insecurity. Stranan i komplizieren narod.

RobN, thank you for your opinion, although, consistently biased and utterly ridiculous. You start off, by making the far reaching accusation that there are no bulgarian historians, thus underestimating a centuries old scientific community, that has some clear developments, and many prominent figures, none of which, you are aware of.

If you say slavs exist as a more than a modern frased language group, then you shall be able to prove it. Until then, people who are aware of the start of Panslavism and Ilirism, would use indescreet laughter to your claims. Probably thats the time to throw some names into the discussion such as Orbini. (don’t get pussled by the wikipedia showing you 10 famous Orbini’s…) and etc, but I would not do. Since you speak of no facts.

Bulgarians are not turcic, and their racial features are consistent with those of other iranic nations. Physical anthropology is a field which does require some inteligence, and I am not suprised you know nothing of it. THe very fact you are mistaking turk with turkic as synonimous is laughable. The line of reasoning you use – childish.

„Even the now deceased Prof. Rasho Rashev found this to be the most plausible scenario.“
Quite the opposite, eventhough I can give you credit for finding his only english-translated article on the internet dating as back as 1992. The later works of Profesor Rashev (R.I.P. , he was murdered), actually evaluate the new data on the protobulgarians and are conclusive on the iranian origin of protobulgarians. he has quite a rich bibliography, I reccomend it to you.

„Bulgar graves demonstrate at least some mongoloid admixture. “ – yes – a 0.005% admicture – the same amount of mongoloid admicture exists virtually all across Europe, and is ridiculously low.

„The Saltovo-Mayaki culture on the Pontic Steepe.“ – good. But there is no links of the saltovo-mayatsk culture to the turkic people. Rather it was a culture of agricultural iranic society, evident by the material finds.

“ though genetic Bulgar input was rather small in modern Bulgarians,“ – ridiculous. The fact is, genetic studies contradict one another, and serve political agenda.

„The probability is much higher that you have Slavic/Thracian genetic ancestry than any relationship to the peoples calling themselves Bulgars currently in Tatarstan.“
Except, for the fact that both bulgarians and Bulgars in Tatarstan are of the Pontic race. In comparison from slavs who range from Dinarid through Alpinid, to Nordid, baltid, Turanid and other… Range which somehow doesn’t explain your ridiculous theory that slavs are one nation.

White race is not geographically bound to Europe, and thats pretty obvious to everyone other than the users of the 1001 White Power forums.

„They don’t want to be“ – its not about who you want to be, it is about who you are. And then again you mistake the government of Macedonia for the people of Macedonia. Classic

„. I’m an American of Bulgarian extraction “ – would you define please. How bulgarian are you? Your last sentense has polish spelling.

You see, logic like this alone demonstrates why it is a complete waste of time trying to have a civil and polite discussion with balkanic buffoons such as yourself, and why people who attempt such can only regret it. You want to talk about childish arguments?

“ In comparison from slavs who range from Dinarid through Alpinid, to Nordid, baltid, Turanid and other… Range which somehow doesn’t explain your ridiculous theory that slavs are one nation.“

Did I write anywhere that Slavs are one nation, my simple minded little friend? By this moronic argument, there are no Germans, because the Germans run the spectrum from nordics in the extreme north to more dinaric types in the south, especially those in Austria. Yet the fact remains, there are German and Germanic peoples, as well as a Germanic language family. Same applies to the Slavs.I ‘m sure this is too much for your pea brained chauvinistic and intellectually challenged mind to grasp, but it’s a simple and inescapable fact extablished by modern scholarship. I won’t disturb your blissful stupidity any further in going into all of the other logical fallacies and blatant distortions of reality you present above. Waste of my time. I’ll leave you and your clique of morons to revel in Orbini’s 17th century scholarship and bask in your alleged Bulgar Aryan purity, devoid of any Thracian or Slavic admixture, of course. You clowns are the purest of the pure; Just like those other Bulgarian peasants in Macedonia insist on claiming pure descent from Alexander. Enjoy living in your fantasy worlds.

I wish people would leave history to the historians, rather than constantly raging about how what the historians find is incomplatible with the personal beliefs, of these same individuals, who create their alternative history online.