Fly-by today was picture perfect as well. So everything is looking great so far.

_________________Say, can you feel the thunder in the air? Just like the moment ’fore it hits – then it’s everywhereWhat is this spell we’re under, do you care? The might to rise above it is now within your sphereMachinae Supremacy – Sid Icarus

I got up at 3:50 in the morning to go out and try to see ISS and Dragon.

I was sure I would be seeing the ISS at mag -2 or brighter (don't remember the exact number) but it was really a lot brighter outside than I had expected, I hardly could see any stars so I was worried I would miss Dragon at mag ~1 oder so.

Then the ISS appeared above as the usual bright point of light and I startet scanning the path for another moving speck of light. I was sure Dragon should be following, but heavens above said yesterday evening Dragon would be in front?

Anyway, closely behind the ISS (about 1.5 times the length of my hand at full arm-length) Dragon followed. It was simply awesome to see Dragon with my own eyes!

PS: my Bother thinks I'm mad going out in the middle of the night to watch specs of light passing by

Just wondering, where does that leave VTVL folks like Masten and Armadillo?

I was thinking that too. The market for frequent flights of small payloads is still available to them, I would guess, but SpaceX could soon have the capability to take on any sub-orbital HSF going, like if Space Adventures wanted them to fly Armadillo's flying fish-bowl, or space divers, but I don't think SpaceX will be interested.

A Dragon on a re-usable 1st stage could presumably be given a substantial sub-orbital microgravity trip, and that might be a useful service for testing of payloads for DragonLab. I see no reason why it couldn't take other Sub-Orbital Unexposed Packages (unexposed = the hatch never opens), which suggests the amusing name SOUP-Dragon. It is a Law of Space Things that any project with an amusing name must be done. Or have I dropped a Clanger?

Well, there are airlines with 747s, but there's also space in the market for NetJets. Similarly, flying with Armadillo or Masten means you get a dedicated ride, while flying an entire suborbital F9 will cost a lot of money (but you can take a big payload), or will mean that your small payload is one of very many, and you don't get a lot of flexibility. So even if SpaceX decided to do this, Armadillo and Masten would be fine.

I don't see SpaceX going this way though, they have limited resources, and are much better off investing those into rapid-turnaround reusable orbital services, which is potentially a much much higher margin market, especially since there's no competition.

Anyway, very cool video (I keep thinking about the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, "It hung in the sky in much the same way that bricks don't"), and I finally understand whey they used Ring of Fire . I'm also still wondering about the engine on this thing, whether it is seriously detuned and if so how. Considering the yellow flame it seems to be running oxidiser rich. On the other hand, the hover slam itself implies that they're planning to land the real thing with a positive thrust-to-weight ratio, i.e. a moderately throttled non-detuned Merlin vs. a nearly empty stage. One thing's for sure: Elon's schedules are once again slipping. We were promised some craters by now dammit!

_________________Say, can you feel the thunder in the air? Just like the moment ’fore it hits – then it’s everywhereWhat is this spell we’re under, do you care? The might to rise above it is now within your sphereMachinae Supremacy – Sid Icarus

Fair points. But I was also thinking whether approach wise, was Armadillo's approach of doing incremental improvements to eventually get into space worth it given that it takes very very long horizons?

Fair points. But I was also thinking whether approach wise, was Armadillo's approach of doing incremental improvements to eventually get into space worth it given that it takes very very long horizons?

Technically, that process of self-education is necessary in some form. I think the real obstacle was financial.

I think the way things have panned out is that you need $millions to develop worthwhile VTVL rockets, tens of $millions to touch the von Karmen Line, and 100s of $millions to go orbital; and succeeding at one level does not generate the revenue to reach the next. Respectfully, I would say John Carmack is wealthy, but not rich by today's standard.

I'm also still wondering about the engine on this thing, whether it is seriously detuned and if so how. Considering the yellow flame it seems to be running oxidiser rich. On the other hand, the hover slam itself implies that they're planning to land the real thing with a positive thrust-to-weight ratio, i.e. a moderately throttled non-detuned Merlin vs. a nearly empty stage. One thing's for sure: Elon's schedules are once again slipping. We were promised some craters by now dammit!

They use a rich fuel mixture in their engines. The yellow flame is because it's happening at sea level where the atmosphere is thick. In space the same fuel mix produces less yellow and more gray/black.

According to some other threads, SpaceX have said they use ballast in Grasshopper to keep the thrust/weight ratio low.