Like most feminists of the old school, I imagine you have a jaundiced view of the past. Women have always had power and influence. Helen of Troy, Bodicaea, Faustina, fucking Queen Elizabeth I, arguably one of the most intelligent women in history. Do you think men are so awesome as to be able to master an entire sex? Do you really see men as this daunting?

Sorry bud, you are way off now. 1) I'm no feminist, the feminist movement has been as bad for women as it was supposed to be good. 2) Every one of the women you've mentioned is an exception and for the record Helen ate big shit, while Paris ate not so much. 3) You need to check out the actual laws, it's easily done online. 4) I don't think men are awesome or daunting, mostly they're just kind of useless, though some are a lot of fun. That said, my all-time favorite people in the world are men (and yes, they're alive). I just don't want to own (or be owned by) one.

Just don't go deluding yourself about the current state of affairs. Divorce has always been with us. The only difference is now it doesn't mean a complete loss of resources for the female, she's got her own.

If I minded telling you, I just wouldn't tell you. You're cool. I'm mostly an open book.

Yes, I know you wouldn't tell me if you didn't want to. That disclaimer is something that I have been trained to say over the years. I don't understand social conventions, but I adhere to them anyway. I'm sure you understand what I mean.

Now, let me get the hell out of this thread because I so badly want to comment on something you wrote that irks me, but I'm determined to be a good girl tonight.

Sorry bud, you are way off now. 1) I'm no feminist, the feminist movement has been as bad for women as it was supposed to be good. 2) Every one of the women you've mentioned is an exception and for the record Helen ate big shit, while Paris ate not so much. 3) You need to check out the actual laws, it's easily done online. 4) I don't think men are awesome or daunting, mostly they're just kind of useless, though some are a lot of fun. That said, my all-time favorite people in the world are men (and yes, they're alive). I just don't want to own (or be owned by) one.

Just don't go deluding yourself about the current state of affairs. Divorce has always been with us. The only difference is now it doesn't mean a complete loss of resources for the female, she's got her own.

I just doubt it was as bad or as neat and simple as you make it seem. Also, no man can own you. Not the way you seem to fear.

Like most feminists of the old school, I imagine you have a jaundiced view of the past. Women have always had power and influence. Helen of Troy, Bodicaea, Faustina, fucking Queen Elizabeth I, arguably one of the most intelligent women in history. Do you think men are so awesome as to be able to master an entire sex? Do you really see men as this daunting?

These are the female creative minds of best available fortune at their time in history. If you have ever wondered what it would have been like for Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Frederic Chopin, or others to be denied their creative output on the basis of their gender, consider the above listed examples because that was precisely their fate. As children they demonstrated similar gifts as their brothers possessed, but in the end they were "ladies" required to fulfill prescribed functions in society. Most did bear children in wedlock.

Edit: It is important to include this specific quote about Marianne Mozart.

When she was seven years old, her father Leopold Mozart started teaching her to play the clavier. Leopold took her and Wolfgang on tours of many cities, such as Vienna and Paris, to showcase their talents. In the early days she sometimes received top billing and she was noted as an excellent harpsichord player and pianist.

However, given the views of her parents, prevalent in her society at the time, it became impossible as she grew older for Marianne to continue her career any further. As the New Grove puts it, "from 1769 onwards she was no longer permitted to show her artistic talent on travels with her brother, as she had reached a marriageable age."

Some of Fanny Mendelssohn's music was likely published under Felix's name.

Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors. Fear of reality creates myopic moralitySo I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
(from Blue Velvet)

Yes, I know you wouldn't tell me if you didn't want to. That disclaimer is something that I have been trained to say over the years. I don't understand social conventions, but I adhere to them anyway. I'm sure you understand what I mean.

Now, let me get the hell out of this thread because I so badly want to comment on something you wrote that irks me, but I'm determined to be a good girl tonight.

These are the female creative minds of best available fortune at their time in history. If you have ever wondered what it would have been like for Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Frederic Chopin, or others to be denied their creative output on the basis of their gender, consider the above listed examples because that was precisely their fate. As children they demonstrated similar gifts as their brothers possessed, but in the end they were "ladies" required to fulfilled prescribed functions in society. Most did bear children in wedlock.

I'm sure you could point to men who were required to fulfill some social function. Does this mean these men were held down? How can someone deny you creative output?

"Those who control their passions do so because their passions are weak enough to be controlled." - William Blake