Worried, we called Kurt Vonnegut. What did he know?! He said he would tell us when he had more complete information. The next morning we received another fax, a transcript of a conversation he had, he said, with the out-of-print science fiction writer Kilgore Trout.

TROUT Did you watch the State of the Union address?

KV Yes, and it certainly helped to remember what the late British philosopher and mathematician Bertrand Russell called this planet.

TROUT Which was?

KV “The lunatic asylum of the Universe.” He said the inmates had taken over and were trashing the joint. And he wasn’t talking about the germs or the elephants. He meant we the people.

TROUT There was certainly nothing in our president’s behavior to match Howard Dean’s tarantella after he placed third in Iowa.

KV That was straitjacket and padded cell stuff. I’m glad he put on such a show, since it dramatized a fatal flaw in our Constitution.

TROUT Which is?

KV Only a nut would run for president. As far as that goes, only disturbed people ran for president of my class in high school. My point is that doing a Dean isn’t the only way to show how disconnected you are from what is really going on.

TROUT For example?

KV I’m in New York City, where they mainstream the clinically insane, turn ’em loose on the streets. There could be a little old lady on Times Square, crooning in subzero weather, crooning to nobody in particular about all she has done to make this a better country, safer, better educated, more prosperous and so on. She believes it with all her heart, but it isn’t true.

TROUT And?

KV I only want to say about our president, our armed forces’ Commander-in-Chief: He believes whatever he says. He might be the sincerest person in the whole wide world. He should be in a movie. Correction: He is in a movie, a made-for-TV movie, which is now our form of government.

KV German for “broke,” unable to pay for even the most basic public services. Governor Schwarzenegger, whom I met when he was nothing but “Mr. Universe,” now thinks he can sell bonds for the next generation to pay off. Hasta la vista, Baby. And every state and municipality in America is ganz gebusted. You think Baghdad is a mess? Wait till you see Kokomo, Indiana, two years from now.

TROUT What about President Bush’s statement that he gave a tax cut to the rich because they could make wiser use of it than the government ever could?

KV

TROUT That’s all?

KV He told the truth! Even a stopped clock tells the truth once every 12 hours. Who couldn’t make better use of money? Would you just look what the federal government has done with the billions and billions of public money we used to have in our treasury? This administration has squandered it all, and then some, on Rube Goldberg devices for protecting us from—or blowing the crap out of—Arabs, most of whom could never attack us even if they wanted to. It was Saudis who knocked down the Twin Towers. Anybody notice that? And we act as though the Saudis are as pure as the Virgin Mary.

TROUT Thank you. I think that’s enough for now. You look as though you’re about to do a Dean.

KV This war is making billionaires out of millionaires, and trillionaires out of billionaires, and they own television, and they bankroll George Bush, and not because he’s against gay marriage.

TROUT Yes, well, do get some rest, or maybe take a swim, a total change of environment.

KV You want to hear about a really crazy guy?

TROUT OK.

KV Napoleon! He was so crazy he thought he was Napoleon! But what made his case so unfunny, in fact catastrophic, was that he, unlike the little old lady on Times Square, held real power! He was already, and no kidding, Emperor! So, as a consequence of his delusion, there would be absolutely genuine screams of agony and blood and guts all over the place—for years to come.

TROUT OK.

KV You don’t think this is the Lunatic Asylum of the Universe?

TROUT I don’t think I expressed an opinion one way or the other.

KV We are killing this planet as a life-support system with the poisons from all the thermodynamic whoopee we’re making with atomic energy and fossil fuels, and everybody knows it, and practically nobody cares. This is how crazy we are. I think the planet’s immune system is trying to get rid of us with AIDS and new strains of flu and tuberculosis, and so on, but I think it’s too late. I don’t think even it can keep George W. Bush from getting elected to a second term.

Kurt Vonnegut, the legendary author, WWII veteran, humanist, artist and smoker, was an In These Times senior editor until his death in April 2007. His classic works include Slaughterhouse-Five, Breakfast of Champions and Cat's Cradle, among many others. The last book by him published before his death, A Man Without a Country (2005), collects many of the articles he wrote for this magazine.

On 2.5.04, in the very first post on this article (and also as someone who is a huge KV fan), I wrote:...Aren't you cute with your smartass "Doing a Dean." Wait 'til Kerry gets the nom and Nader steps in and, wham!, 4 more years of Bush....
Well, I'm right so far. Hope I'm wrong on the second count.Posted by Chris Dodosn on 2004-04-27 23:28:41

"Naderites need to admit that their 2000 position, that Gore was not preferable to Bush, was complete and utter garbage. The difference between the two was obvious to the politically literate at the time. "
You say it is obvious in order to avoid making an understandable argument.
"Bush's apalling record as governor of Texas was more than sufficient to show what kind of a president he would make. "
Bush was much less apalling than several Dem governors that preceded him. Your post is just empty rhetoric.
Posted by Kent Betts on 2004-03-15 19:12:41

This essay is typical of the sort of fuzzy thinking that liberals equate with self-evident truth. Vonnegut watches the SOTU speech and is reminded of lunatics and asylums, with no specific reference. The reason that California is broke is that the government wasted money trying to cure every ill that the fuzzy thinkers like Vonnegut could think of. I could go on, but it should suffice to say that Vonnegut is suffering from testosterone deficiency. So it goes.Posted by Kent Betts on 2004-03-15 18:54:07

Useful jornalism this is for sure.
Pointing out our absurd sitcom which happens on high while ordinary good people continue a modicum of decency and happiness.Posted by jan janson on 2004-02-18 09:12:21

I agree with the majority of the people of the United States who are confused and lost by Bush's actions. As far as we all know, war is over. We know there is just so much that the government can tell the people, but in my opinion, Bush's "insane" actions need to stop. He is taking huge steps that are not needed. I think he jsut needs to sit back and let things settle.Posted by Becky on 2004-02-16 13:42:04

Terrific!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Posted by Jean-Paul on 2004-02-15 17:47:09

[url=http://cia.gov/cia/public_affairs/speeches/2004/tenet_georgetownspeech_02052004.html]http://cia.gov/cia/public_affairs/speeches/2004/tenet _georgetownspeech_02052004.html[/url]
Speaking of weapons in Iraq... here's a recent lengthy but interesting speech by George Tenet on the issue. make your own decisions.Posted by greg on 2004-02-12 06:42:09

Our troops are not dying in Iraq for no reason. It is correct when they say that no WMDs have been found so far. But where is the proof that Saddam does not have WMD. Saddam is a crazy man, and there is no proof that he didn't have WMDs before the war.Posted by David Lee on 2004-02-11 19:56:42

George Bush was right when he led the nation to war. I don't know what Kurt thinks, but I'm with the prez all the way when he made an example with the Taliban and Osama. Oh yeah, with the statement from Kurt saying how Bush is a crazy lunatic, you are right. Only a crazy lunatic can rid the world of with the crazy lunatic. Now that the rest of the terror nations know that we have a crazy lunatic as our commander in chief, they can't mess with us. See, there ain't no 9-11 since 9-11. Posted by David Lee on 2004-02-11 19:50:38

I just wanted to say that President Bush does belong in an asylum. The reason why I think he does is because he seriously thought there were massive arms hidden there, when there was nothing actually found. He put our troops out there for nothing, and our troops are dying because of it.
I truely believe that we need a Democrate for the next election. For the next election vote for someone who cares about the poor people in the US.Posted by Elizabeth Aleksiuk on 2004-02-11 16:14:57

I agree with thta we are living in the Lunatic Asylum of the universe. All the people do whatever make them richier eventhough they have enough. I think we will abuse all the presidents that we will have or had. For the next election, I don't know who will get elected. but I want to have peace in the world, not create war. For this reason, I don't like Bush. He seems not conceerned with the poor people of America. The Lunatic Asylum of the universe is going to keep getting massier.Posted by Neung Kwon on 2004-02-10 18:12:25

Well this article did hit one good point, Bush is a terrible president. He is war hungry, plain and simple. He takes our country into Iraq because supposedly Sadaan Hussein has weapons of mass destruction... umm excuse me, where exactly are they? No evidence of weapons and no Osama Bin Laden! Frankly, It is ridiculous and if Bush gets elected to another term, which it looks like it might happen, this country is in for some serious debt. He will run this country into the ground. Someone needs to pull the troops out and we all know Bush won't do it any time soon.Posted by Liz Jacoby on 2004-02-10 17:13:10

Since it was brought up several days ago, I've been wondering why people talk about votes that Nader may or may not have stolen from Gore... but what happened to earning votes? Nader didn't steal votes from Gore, because they weren't Gore's to be stolen. Nader didn't rip off the man's VCR, he earned votes from people who thought he was the best candidate. And we're finding fault with this? Wow. And more than one person has said, "if Gore had won such and such, this would be a non issue," so it seems to me quite clear: Gore was crap, and if he had not been crap he may have won. Look, to talk about votes being stolen means they belonged to someone rightfully to be begin with. Unfortunately, no matter how much the dominant parties wish it were so, votes are not commodities; a candidate does not, ever, possess a vote. He or she has only to earn it and it is theirs.Posted by greg on 2004-02-10 07:59:39

Too funny. I was reading an article on PNAC and thinking this has to be fiction which then lead me to wondering what would Vonnegut have to say...now I know! Posted by michelle on 2004-02-09 19:02:06

It's good having Kilgore Trout back again, knowing he's alive and well in cyberspace.
My father, by the way, happens to be a certified lifetime member of the Wheaties "Breakfast of Champions" Hole-In-One Club (a nineteen forties promotion). And though my father's picture never made the cover of a box of Wheaties during his golfing career, my younger sister went on to receive the largest fine in LPGA history for using the F word on live national television: after skulling a six iron shot (that cost her the lead) while playing in the company of Gerald Ford during a national pro-am tournament. Later in her career though, she also received a fat contract as a commentator for women's golf events on ESPN II... and so it goes.
Now, I don't know that there's anything to this idea that candidate Dean somehow lost the confidence of primary voter's because of the media's focus of a particular exhibition of zeitgeist, however manipulated or overblown their portrayal, as much as voter's in the meanwhile had already rejected his wife as "first lady" material during her audition for America's National TV Movie that seems to be the modus operandi of America's collective (albeit mythical) identity.
Like, Dean became all "wild eyed Liberal" while his wife was revealed as being too reticent, a "Miss Jane Hathaway" and so on. The Dean's then, were far too polarized for an already unipolar Jed Clampett populous, however ironic that may be. But clearly, as I observe it, the wife was viewed as being "not ready for prime time" if not entirely wrong for the part of first lady.
Will Rogers: "There's no accounting for any man's taste when it comes to their choice of a wife or a president."
Posted by Tim Christopher on 2004-02-09 18:11:56

I like the part about "the Earth's immune system kicking in with AIDS." A very interesting theory indeed.Posted by michael copple on 2004-02-09 13:10:13

Whether the Nader run lost the election for Gore depends on the New Hamphire results. Florida was rigged, so nothing would probably have changed the result there. But if Gore had won in New Hampshire, he would not have needed Florida. Gore lost New Hampshire by 12,000 votes. Nader won 22,000 votes. Enuff said.Posted by Carl Wernerhoff on 2004-02-08 22:04:54

Chris Dodson did miss the point, and he was completely rude to a man who is way more intelligent than Chris is. I too am a Dean supporter but come on, he has shot himself in the foot. Chris needs to take Trout's advice and go to sleep, or go for a swim, either way, dont be dumb. Kurt Vonnegut for president! LolPosted by Ben Roberts on 2004-02-08 21:07:47

Nader didn't get Bush elected. Why do people keep saying that? And if he runs again, it doesn't mean that Greens like me will vote for him again, but we would like him to run. He will bring more to the debate than any of the other candidates.Posted by Rougy on 2004-02-08 18:53:06

Dear Mr. Vonnegut,
That was nice. This does seem like a crazy world when the most barbaric terrorist network in the world not only has a bigger budget than any other enterprise in the world, but they accuse others of terrorism when "they" try to defend themselves from the vicious attacks from the Goliath. If you don't believe me, look up Middle East terrorism in say, 1985(chosen by journalists to be the lead news story for that year). The attack that created the most fatalities was a car bomb that exploded outside a mosque when families were just leaving. It was an assasination attempt (that failed, but did kill 80 people) on a Shiite leader by the CIA. The international world is fighting a giant. But here's the rub. This giant is not one crazy beast. It is made up of millions of people. You and me included. And it doesn't take all of us to start something big. The civil rights movement that was succesful in swaying public opinion, at its core, was made up of only hundreds of dedicated leaders and organizers. The people who make up this country don't care about voting if they aren't convinced it matters. They will care if we can show them the plain and simple facts. The mainstream media is far too corrupt to propell this message but that's nothing. There are journalists in Turkey who risk their lives everyday to speak the truth in the face of power. We are asked to make no such sacrifces. So join a club, talk to people, find out what you want and find out what your neihbor wants. Chances are even if he's a republican, you are both interested in the same things. Higher pay, better benefits, an international world that is ruled by more than brute force. I'm a freshman at Tufts University, and it is clear that people are getting convinced more and more that politics is starting to matter. This election seems to be a good starting point. It just started and nothing has been decided. Howard Dean will win in 04 and I'm going to help him. What will you do?
Before you act, if you want a few good books to read let me share with you:
A People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn.
Manufacturing Consent by Noam Chomsky.
Sirens of Titan by KV
Catch-22 by Joesph HellerPosted by Spencer Hickok on 2004-02-08 18:41:23

This just in: The State Department has issued new guidelines for defining a terrorist:
ANYONE WHO QUESTIONS BUSH'S REALITYPosted by E. Masquit on 2004-02-08 17:17:39

Propoganda works. Hasn't that been proven by our current administration? It's time for the dems to wise up and put "Republicans against Bush" messages everywhere. The flock will fall right in and we can end this nightmare. The extremists in our white house are not going to be evicted through democracy. Lets use deception and smoking mirrors. For example I stumbled upon this site and have quickly found that everyone shares the same views here about our need to end the Bush reign. But why not put a big banner across the top of each page which reads: "REPUBLICAN HOME ON THE WEB"
And then point out the obvious reality about Bush. Say, "most Republicans have realized that Bush is a danger to the Christian right" what fundamentalist is going to question a statement like that? People can bitch and rant all day long and it doesn't change a thing. What we need now is calculated deception.Posted by Charlie on 2004-02-08 14:25:57

of course KV is right. what we need is to change or get rid of the constitution that was written by big capitalists , maintained by capital to enable 2% of the people to virtually enslave 98%. Do we have the opportunity; the time left to do this without chaos? Posted by yogaj on 2004-02-07 19:33:52

If it's any consolation to you all, my country is a oneparty system masquerading as a twoparty too.Posted by Owen on 2004-02-07 18:13:24

Thank you so much. This piece gave me the best laugh I have had in a long time. I REALLY needed. This is an example of why Kurt Vonnegut is one of my all time favorite authors and human being.Posted by Ron on 2004-02-07 16:02:37

Wake up, indeed.
We know all about the needs of the poor or the environment. WePosted by Paul on 2004-02-07 11:36:05

Mr. Vonnegut,
We are in desperate need of another book by you. As a college student, and as a person, I'm tired of hearing about the "da Vinci Code," which in my opinion is a load of shit.
The best thing about your books is that they are not just some trip, some sort of escapism, they wake the reader up.
We've been asleep for the past few years. Wake us up again.Posted by Franco Vitella on 2004-02-07 09:11:12

So it's revolution you want. Check out the above websites!Posted by JB on 2004-02-07 08:51:19

Fellow democrats (UC "D" or lc "d": you choose)
First things first: first get rid of
Bush in '04, then worry about what
kind of prez the Dem will make.We can
worry about the mess that is the
Democratic Party better when we
do not have to worry about a "God-guy"
taking us into armageddon and economic
disaster.If the Bushies stay in power in
'04, we are doomed as a democracy
and as a nation. ABB in '04!
Posted by Ron Weinert on 2004-02-07 08:12:24

By the way, is this the same Kilgore Trout that we all know and love, who created that great Sci-Fi classic "Space 1999"? Posted by Tom Kugler on 2004-02-06 23:16:37

Did anyone out there read Gerry Spence's book of a few years ago called " Give Me Liberty" . He had the right idea, anyone who aspires to higher office should be automatically disqualified as being psychologically unfit and we should pick our public servants by lot. We would be a helluva lot better off that way than having Bush Antipas (and his keepers) in office. This man is a dishonorable creep and not fit to be dog catcher, much less President.Posted by Tom Kugler on 2004-02-06 23:11:42

No, not because it's "the right thing to do"
It's because God chose him.
You must keep in mind that this choosing God is not your God, or my God. It's his God. His and his alone. We must fear his God.
And yes, GW Bush must be re-defeated in 2004 at any costPosted by Mohammed Alasma Id on 2004-02-06 20:58:19

For those of you whose wheels are in danger of coming off go back and read number 8 on the Most Popular list, "Dry Drunk", then COMPOSE yourselves!
Everyone went appopletic over a sexual obsessive who could at least THINK when his zipper was closed. Now we have an aristocrat with a half- fried brain playing King-of-the World with our lives because, "it's the right thing to do." (Or is it right because he's doing it?)
Let's be clear about this; no matter what lies in the future - and it probably won't be teriffic - Bush MUST go!Posted by jtsnyder on 2004-02-06 13:49:24

Depressing because it is true.Posted by Dorothy Latour on 2004-02-06 12:02:44

It is always a bright spot in one's life to hear from KV, and Kilgore.
Many times, they can see what others cannot. It has always struck me as odd how concerned we are about electability, when in 1999, our current p-resident was about as electable as Pat Paulsen, God rest his soul. GW had no concept of countries or their leaders, or even policy. He thought the Gaza Strip was the adhesive side of a maxi pad. If that guy wasn't "electable" then, what makes him electable this time around? Tutoring? Face it, GW Bush isn't fit to be Commissioner of Baseball and if Pat were still alive, he would be a better choice. The RNC has stated this is going to be one of the nastiest campaigns in history. It'll have to be! The incumbent can't run on his recordPosted by Mohammed Alasma Id on 2004-02-06 09:42:02

I you people are serious about taking the country back, you have to cut out crap like this article. Every time I think about maybe voting democratic, you pull something stupid.Posted by mcpat on 2004-02-06 08:26:24

Sorry, Maria, but refusing to vote will get you four more years of Bush and a virtual return to feudal times. Environment ransacked for energy companies' and polluting industries' bottom lines; more tax cuts to make the wealthy even more obscenely so; the media in the iron grip of two or three politically connected conglomerates; no free speech that fails to please the administration; downward economic mobility for millions more people; an omnipotent military-industrial complex; exporting democracy the same way we've been exporting manufacturing (and increasingly, professional) jobs. I could go on, but it would be far too depressing.
I can't even begin to comprehend four more years of Bush.Posted by Pete Anderson on 2004-02-06 08:06:49

Kurt is right on as usual. This culture or rather the entire world has become like
a house full of schizophrenics, all of whom really do believe they are perfectly
sane and everyone else is crazy.Posted by Chris Maukonen on 2004-02-06 07:29:12

When is America going to get it, we've gotten what we have because we don't do what we should. We don't need leadership, we are the leadership, the folks in Washington are our employee's. When we neglect to watch what they do, we can't/shouldn't be surprised when we find they have their hand in the till. Wake up America, take charge of what is yoursPosted by George on 2004-02-06 04:30:58

Mr Vonnegut Jr. is absolutely right. We won't be able to keep King George ......from "correcting" the votes to secure another term. Perhaps I should start calling Bush the Emperor instead of the King. Poor Mr. Dean can perhaps be likened to doomed old Edgar Derby. We, the public-in-the-know will forever more be known as Billy-the-enlightened. Unfortunately we never get to travel to Tralfamadore for more information. But, we may be able to clean our specks well enough to "glimpse" the past or future...where's a good optometrist when you need one? Well maybe if we really squint we will see clearly. I'd really like to know which country will be responsible for our demise. Who will hold the nuclear "smoking gun?" First, we will in all likelyhood lose the shirts off our backs and end up in silver boots. Won't that be l-o-v-e-l-y. So it goes.Posted by Joan Levine on 2004-02-06 04:22:52

I can't say who will be the better candidate in 2004, but I don't think I can support Bush a second time around. I agree that it's tough to change the world, when you are working 50-80 hours a week, and still have nothing to show for at the end of the month. Politically speaking, leaning to the left might not be such a bad idea, if we could just get a candidate who would really live up to their campaign promises. I believe that people should be given a chance to be themselves and should be represented by someone, who has their best interest at heart. Politcis being what it is, is very seldom representative of the candidates true nature. Normally we find out four years later, what we got in the deal.Posted by Jim Walker on 2004-02-06 01:37:00

Good article, Kurt. I'll be a fan forever!
Also, thanks to the Reverend Willy D. Amen.
I think for myself, unlike those who get their "information" from TV & mainstream media propaganda.
Enjoy the looney bin you fools!Posted by Brian Siefke on 2004-02-06 00:53:54

Sorry for the typos in the last post and to Kurt , I thank you for all you have done. You have enriched millions of lives through your imagination and for that I Thank You.Posted by Ken C on 2004-02-05 22:03:57

The thing that troubles me most is that Bush is actually our president. The President is supposed to represent us as americans but he has NEVER worked never had a blister(how many of you were given sport teams?He was) he got into air national guard during vietnamahead of a list of 500 before him he didn't bother to even show up for the last year or so of that(you or I try to do that and we be in jail for long long time for dessertion)He was a "c" student and made it into Harvard (yea right like we can all do that or even afford harvard in the first place.)this man represents only the super rich and the RIGHTS they get to enjoy the rest of us get the patriot act..Posted by Ken C on 2004-02-05 21:57:42

OK. Maybe I should have said to KV, "go take a flying fuck at a rolling donut" in order to prove my creds.Posted by Chris Dodson on 2004-02-05 20:33:46

"Fuck You." Brilliant reposte. Why don't you run for pres? Everyone else enjoy Kurt for as long as possible. He's lived long enough to tell the truth with eloquence, brevity, and incomparable humor.
Bless you, Kurt.
Peace.Posted by daigu on 2004-02-05 20:20:27

The asylum will continue! Apparently the yuppies are all "afeared" that Nadeeer will run and split the vote. Well, if those pompous, selfish, SUV driving, ego-driven, narcisstic parasites in this nation care only about their own positions and material gain, maybe they should consider the minimum wage workers who chop the heads off the chickens they broil or gut the cows and pigs they barbeque! What about the carpenters who build those oversize ego houses that they don"t have time to live in because they are too busy working 60+ hour weeks in their high tech service job to "keep up with the Jonses". If the Democratic Party isn't going to represent the 'majority' of American workers, the 'working class' who's jobs are being marginalized and shipped overseas at an incredible rate, don't blame them for not voting for the Democratic candidate. Let Bush bring on the Depression, then those fools might wake up to the fact that yuppie apathy is allowing the asylum to rule by their own greed and vanity.Posted by Amy on 2004-02-05 18:41:54

wow! I love kurt vonnegut, he has a beautiful soul. He always seems to hold such wonderful wisdom and insight. He is the kind of person i want to be. Posted by lana on 2004-02-05 18:40:09

Right on KV. Definetlely seeing through the BS of it all. Wake up people, you've been asleep since ADAM SMITH. Your little FreeMarket society isn't so free anymore. Bush and his boyz got you buy the cojones and their reeling us in with some ingenious and not always well spoken rhetoric. KV knows that it is this ill our society produces which is exasperating the world. Kerry or Bush, both Yales with same agenda, American Exceptionalism. The reason KV calls it a "Dean" is because he knows Dean is disconnected from the Bush neo-con mission. That mission is propagated by the lunatic asylum force of the universe. It's unavoidable evolution of stupidity that makes men in the form of Napoleon, Bush, etc.
But have no fear. The world is getting rid of us one way or another. Be it either through a nice big war, or world wide epidemic of some mutated SARS virus. Unfortunately, the only way out is this new Bush NASA contract and doesn't smell like relief. I mean come on, living on the moon?Posted by David Gonzales on 2004-02-05 17:05:05

Of course, Nader helped Bush II win in 2000 and it's absurd to pretend otherwise. Third party candidates always siphon votes that would otherwise go to ONE of the two major party candidates, not be divided among them equally. Why did George Wallace get shot in 1972? Because otherwise Nixon would have lost 20 million votes and McGovern would have been elected. Why did Clinton win in 1992? Because Perot took away 19 million votes from Bush I.
This is the way US politics works. If you don't like it, you don't vote for Nader or a third party candidate, you try to change the electoral system itself.
Naderites need to admit that their 2000 position, that Gore was not preferable to Bush, was complete and utter garbage. The difference between the two was obvious to the politically literate at the time. Bush's apalling record as governor of Texas was more than sufficient to show what kind of a president he would make.
Posted by Carl Wernerhoff on 2004-02-05 16:29:37

It's just lame blaming Nader for Gore's defeat. When Gore picked a right wing running mate he lost all credibility. That cost him many more vote than Nader did. Now the question is will the democrats make the same mistake again. Not will Nader run. 100,000,000 Americans don't vote. Maybe because if Kerry is the nominee does anyone expect him to change anything Bush has done? Is Bush Lite really any safer than Bush? KV is right most people don't care, at least not enough change their life styles and stop what is happening to our childrens and grandchildrens home.Posted by Jim on 2004-02-05 15:29:39

Would anyone like a quick primer set for how to better understand what is transpiring in this nation of "ours" ? ? ?
The Rev. thought you might...
1) Listen to all Bill Hicks, Jello Biafra and Lenny Bruce you can find.
2) Read the graphic novel series "Transmetropolitan" which chronicles the exploits of one Spider J.
3) Remember that the political process, VERY much like the judicial process, has become a function of one thing and one thing only - M O N E Y. Until such time as candidate spending is regulated and media access by same individuals controlled there will be no real choice at the voting location; only the selecting the face of the guy who is going to screw us for the next four years. This same individual will also invite his friends for sloppy fifths on the public dime.
4) Treat the KV piece and items like it for what they are; invitations to THINK FOR YOURSELF. Don't trust or believe the opinions of ANYONE else... you may be surprised what can happen if you just exert a little effort into actually thinking and not being so concerned with obedience.
5) Go to unamerican.com and buy some stickers - you might not change the world with them, but on the other hand...
6) Stop watching the news, it's like gonorrhea for the visual cortex; not to mention that your choices these days are essentially controlled by Mickey Mouse or that creepy old Murdoch guy... what a choice we have...
7) Initiate or renew your subscription to In These Times and Mother Jones, both: independent media DESPARETLY needs every bit of help it can get.
Peaxe,
Rev. Willy D.
Posted by Rev. Willy D. on 2004-02-05 14:58:08

Bush is popular with me, because he's drawn the line. Against the pressure of those nations that where against the war.
I am not going to rely on the UN to protect this nation.
I don't see any of them, democrat, giving Bush a run. Whomever wins will just point and say "He's the bad guy" , Tony Montana. Their policy will be exactly like Bushes except they will try to make people believe it was their idea. People, are smarter than the Democrats think.Posted by James on 2004-02-05 14:23:10

Jarek, you're right about the 2 party system. Unfair isn't even the word. Absurd, maybe. Or Corrupt.
James,
Now, this is getting interesting. What has Bush done exactly to deserve your confindence? I don't mean to antagonize, just curious. And if you had your pick, who would you want you boy Bush going up against in this election? Which Demo canditate seems to you the biggest softball lob?Posted by greg on 2004-02-05 14:01:40

Greg,
I respect all your ideas, but my man is Bush all the way. He's the guy a have confidence in.Posted by James on 2004-02-05 13:36:10

Ed Mellon. I don't get it. You say I missed the entire point but then go on to agree with me about 4 more years of Bush and control of the media. I you sure you read my post correctly?Posted by Chris Dodson on 2004-02-05 13:29:45

What is it with Nader? The two party system is not fair. I think he should run until the cows come home. The changes we need are much more profound than bickering about who is to say, what and when ...
Posted by Jarek on 2004-02-05 13:26:16

Ynyr,
OK, fine, but how about this... if Gore won his home state he'd be president, with or without the votes he "deserved" in FL. And if Bush is ignoring Nader's viable politics, what did Gore do in 2000, welcome them? The truth is Gore has no one to blame for his loss but himself. The election was rigged, for sure, but if he hadn't lost TN it'd be a whole 'nother ball game. As for Kerry, the man is a corporate whore in sheep's clothing. Incidentally, the real sheep seems to be the old war horse, Wes Clark. Him, or Kucinich, but isn't he just another neo-Nader dreamer. Damn those John Lennon politics and the rest of us who who still hold stock in integrity. Let me ask you this, what did Al Gore ever do for you?
And James, who's your candidate?Posted by greg on 2004-02-05 13:17:19

The first comment about Dean "misses the whole popint".
What whole point? Isn't the above article just a collection of quips not addressing any single point? If I am wrong, please correct this impression.
Actually, i thought this would be a good place to address the Dean issue as well, since KV stated such a strong opinion.
Just what was it that Dean did that was improper? I've seen tape of it, and it seemed like quite the appropriate reaction. Enthusiastic, not quitting and pledging to his supporters to continue his drive to become President. (Granted, now that drive seems pretty much disrailed, but at that time...)
So what is anyone's problem with his actions?Posted by Nus on 2004-02-05 13:14:30

You go Maria.Posted by James on 2004-02-05 12:59:17

How about not going to vote? It would be a way of not legitimating men in power who have ceased representing people world-wide. They spend most of their terms trying to campaign for the next election and meanwhile they do exactly the opposite of what everyone voted them to do.
How about not watching TV news or reading papers for a complete month and then try and see what has happened while we were not told what to think or believe.
How about turning our eyes to nature who is silently imploring to be left alone?
How about walking or riding a bike as much as possible, not do shopping unless you really are in need of something and in that case use your brains instead of your eyes?
Many of us feel we are at the end of the road, with water contaminated or scarce in most of the planet, woods disappearing, garbage piling up. What one man discards daily multiplied by his age gives you the creeps. Not to speak of all the weapons manufactured daily (all for defense, supposedly) Most of the western world follows USA tendencies and fashions blindly so I feel we have no real power to change anthing unless you, American people, the greatest country realize all the mess you have contributed in great measure
to create, create a conbscience about it and start showing the way to stop this madness. I am certain you would be surprised to find many people around the world would be more than willing to follow your example, but discussions about which of the candidates iss the less harmful sounds very poor concern, indeed.Posted by Maria L. Etchart on 2004-02-05 12:53:42

Is a despairing optimist something like a militant pacifist?
Yeah, you go, Kurt. I think it would ease our minds a bit more if you'd follow up that ripe rhetoric with some well-timed activism.
What do I know? Maybe he's leading a secret coalition against environmental abuses and lunatic presidential candidates.Posted by Reeder on 2004-02-05 12:53:23

Yea Bart, that's it. You are all looking for a real Utopia! Good luck.Posted by James on 2004-02-05 12:47:16

James, i hope the it your referring to is the desire for a real democracy.Posted by Bart Reynolds on 2004-02-05 12:40:19

You and all your liberal friends are full of it!Posted by James on 2004-02-05 12:36:59

Greg - yes.
Caveat: More like a cautionary tale for the upcoming election than dwelling in the past. He made his point, and we're all getting screwed. Maybe it was a necessary evil in 2000, but once was enough.
It's time for the left to pull together. . . sounds like a cliche but it's true. Our children can't afford one more day of a Bush presidency and that's a fact. Nader has done alot for the country, but that kind of delutional self-absorption - to pull the same stunt twice - can also
be dangerous. He had no chance of winning and he knew it. We don't need a school-lesson in 2004, we need to win, to crush an opposition that thinks it's ok to poison our kids' drinking water and air to make a nickel [among other things].
I'm sure Ralph would agree the stakes are much higher now. . . but when I read that he's still thinking of running it sends a chill down my spine. You know what they say about good intenions. . . and our road now has partly been paved with his. Posted by Ed Mellon on 2004-02-05 12:32:20

I, too, have taken exception to blaming Nader for THIS, but when it comes right down to it, if votes for him had gone to Gore in Florida, Gore would be president. However, Nader got as many votes in Washington as Gore got in South Dakota. His politics are viable, and Bush has ignored them, alienating around three million voters to his left. It is this arrogance that should bring his miserable tenure to an end. Kerry's Purple Heart is more than a symbol, it is a powerful weapon against the scion of an evil regime. Mr. Vonnegut, we must be despairing optimists, not pessimists, lest we reify the myth of Bush's power.Posted by Ynyr on 2004-02-05 12:28:01

How about a piece of poetic doggerel?
"Kerry, Dean, Edwards...who will it be?
To steer this nation over a dangerous sea.
There's a pirate at the helm and his name be Bush.
All the wealth he claims, for the rest of us mush.
So gather roiund all ye mates, the hour draws near.
Choices to make and courage to face fears.
Brace yourselves for a wild and wooly ride.
Safe harbor not yet seen on this rough and riskly tide!
Yo, ho, ho and a bottle of rum!!!!!!!
Yeah, you got it right! Bush is a pirate, a buccaneer and not anywhere as sweet as Johnny Depp about it.
Posted by Hart Edmonds on 2004-02-05 12:16:29

I'm with Ed in that I am waiting on the critical mass and do admit that having something to identify with at times has kept me going or eased a full body tension that I'm sure is taking years off my life. But, after a point I feel like the people who read this are all people who generally agree and wind up yelling at each other out of frustration. This is where I am turning to you Kurt. Isn't it time that the well known dissenting voices embraced an evolution in their roles in this society. Rants are good (and wonderfully entertaining)-but let's step it up a notch! Help us organize get on board, comment together and actually make some change that isn't lip service. I am one of the many people in need of a blocker to follow through the line. I understand if this doesn't jive with what you perceive to be your role, and maybe I'll come off as a lazy terd who should lead instead of follow, but I think my feelings are very indicative of a genuine need.Posted by Colby Mischefsky on 2004-02-05 12:10:08

I don't mean to hijack the conversation, but are people still ranting about Nader stealing the election of 2000? Posted by greg on 2004-02-05 11:54:23

I was going to point out what Chris Dodson did about the background noise, but I don't think Vonnegut was really attacking Dean here.
Unfortunately, cute though this was, it leaves me still hungry for something real.Posted by Judy Lautner on 2004-02-05 11:07:41

Wow, top post just missed the entire point. That was. . . interesting.
But as an aside to it [since we're all just inmates anyways]: if Nader's own people don't straightjacket him to keep him from being another and getting Bush elected, they're nuts. Bush got elected, the nation is really screwed, point made. We don't need another spoiler this time around to prove a point. Most people get it and got it last time! Of course, when the polling machines are as reliable as Vegas slot machines we're screwed anyways.
4 more years of Bush would be catastrophic. Kurt is right about most things, but I disagree one one: most people really DO care. But newsflash: when you're working 50-80 hours a week, so is your spouse, trying to keep your kids off of MTV and still you're broke despite a college degree, it's a pretty exhausting propositon to change the world at 10pm when you finally get to sit down for the first time in the day. Then you wake up at 5 or 6am and do it all over again. Again and again and again. With all due respect, being a semi-retired author is a different lifestyle than the rat race.
That's Bush & Co's real secret weapon: mass media, mass control, and every year "labor-unit gains in productivity" which means you and I work harder for less. 6% this year, but my wages didn't go up 6% - of course, my housing costs went up 20% and my gas did too, just like last year and the year before. . .
But Kurt, keep up the rants. For those in the trenches of the concrete jungle, sometimes that's exactly what is needed to keep going. We can always rage against the machine, you never know when the critical mass will happen. Look at the former Soviet Union.
Posted by Ed Mellon on 2004-02-05 11:07:40

"Doing a Dean"? Fuck you. How is reeling off a list of states equate with a "rant" or "rage"? It's not like he said,"The fucking Clinton Dems, and the corp-owned Media, and the RNC are scared shitless of me as Prez!" Which would have been true. Have you heard the Dean speech w/o the background noise filtered out? Aren't you cute with your smartass "Doing a Dean." Wait 'til Kerry gets the nom and Nader steps in and, wham!, 4 more years of Bush. Then you'll be wishing you hadn't shit on Dean. Asshole.Posted by Chris Dodson on 2004-02-05 10:48:56