I have a basic question which has been puzzling me for a while now. I have checked the forum but could not see a thread relating to this directly or simplistically.

If (as I always do) I record a MIDI TRACK using an external keyboard to play the notes into Cubase (ie. the Midi Data then appears in the 'piano roll'), does it actually matter what the FADER LEVEL is set at (in the F3 mixer) ?? By default, the mixer (white) fader is all the way down at zero (though the green lights show incoming data regardless of this). Then if I move the (white) fader, it 'snaps' and takes control of the level of the incoming data (ie. the green lights for the Midi Track will flash more/less depending where the fader is positioned).

Now, is this VOLUME which is being represented in the Midi Track (F3) mixer ?? And more importantly, regardless of whether or not it is, does it matter where the fader is set, or if it is at its zero position ?? As I say, in default, the incoming level (green lights) is high.

So, what my question is leading to is that :-

After I have recorded the Midi Track (via my external keyboard), I then create an Audio Track and play back the Midi Track (which in turn triggers the internal sound on my external keyboard) and record the sound from the external keyboard onto the Audio Track in Cubase. In other words, I have a Midi Track and Audio Track versions of the same thing. No problem.

Anyway, the problem is that I have been getting a lot of 'clipping' and I can only assume that this may be related to the aforementioned regarding the level of the Midi Track (green lights) ?? Does this actually record the VOLUME (in Midi language) and then (if set too high) will cause the incoming Audio Track to distort ??

I hope I have explained this ok. Its not too complicated a question. It's just a little bit tricky to explain in short.

I have a short excerpt (on the Yamaha forum I use for FM Synth topics) where you can here this unwanted effect. Its only now again that you can hear the individual clipping sounds but they are noticeable. Sadly, I have now noticed in in other recordings I have made previously ! I thought it was maybe 'Automation' (pitch-bend and Mod Wheel) which I record separately over the Midi Track (and then 'glue' it), but I am not sure if this is the case ??

I have my synth volume slider 80% high. And the CI2+ 'trims' at 12 o'clock (so only about half way up) and so the 'peak' red LED's never come on.

However, I have had a bit of a problem recently with experiencing 'clipping' in general. Often when I just play an mp3 or play something on Soundcloud I think I can hear bits of clipping. I had my computer health-checked last week at the shop where I bought it, and also Dell took remote-access on Friday for an hour and found absolutely nothing wrong with it whatsoever.

I am wondering if my Buffer sizes are set as they should be. For the past couple of weeks I have been experimenting with A/V software to try and make some videos to put on You Tube etc. I have sorted out the Latency issues I was having (using Cubase and an external synth thru the visual/audio capture softwares) but the issue with 'clipping' remains. I thought that altering the Latency would automatically correct the pops&cracks but this does not seem to be the case.

The settings I had changed were ASIO Full Duplex and ASIO Low Latency. Though I only did these ones this evening and the problem has been happening a fortnight.

I would be happy to pay someone some beer money towards their time if they were able to sort it. I can Skype/Team Viewer (monsterjazzlicks) as I have 2 x PC's. Its driving me mad as its interfering with all my recordings now and I have spent 2 x weeks on this single issue.

That's not clipping , that is pop and clicks from interrupted audio stream. What's your audio interface, what ASIO driver is selected , and what buffer size have you selected in the driver.? Don't use the ASIO Full Duplex and ASIO Low Latency use the real driver that your interface came with.

I have been quite worried about this. You did very well to spot the problem with only a few tiny examples. I should have made a longer recording but anyway you have sussed it out.

I only tried Low Latency and Full Duplex tonight out of desperation!! I have always used the Steinberg Yamaha ASIO drivers for my CI2± interface. But I had some stupid problem causing software removed a couple of weeks ago (Tune Up Utilities) which altered many Steinberg settings. Perhaps this caused some unwanted changes?

But my question is as your original question was put forth. Mainly, what in fact does the MIDI fader do? As you note it is set by default to zero and from there increasing it seems to have some strange effects. Certainly there is not much gain in volume... I have wondered about this for a long, long time.

Lbro44 wrote:Mainly, what in fact does the MIDI fader do? As you note it is set by default to zero and from there increasing it seems to have some strange effects. Certainly there is not much gain in volume... I have wondered about this for a long, long time.

peakae wrote:That's not clipping , that is pop and clicks from interrupted audio stream. What's your audio interface, what ASIO driver is selected , and what buffer size have you selected in the driver.?

Hi again Peakae,

The Buffer size for my Yamaha Steinberg CI2+ is the default '512' setting. However, there is a NEWER driver update available (I was unaware until just now) from v.7.3 to v.8.3. But the Steinberg site (shop/products) is down at the moment (maybe 'maintenance' work) ?

Just FYI, make sure you don't go crazy looking for the solution to this.

I've been noticing Cubase 7.5 clipping into the red at any given time. And I'm very vigilant about my levels.

I'll have a song of about 12 MIDI tacks driving some VSTs, and all of a sudden there will be crackles & pops & then nothing again for an indefinite amount of time. Upon playing the song again it'll be fine for any number of run-throughs. [I've made sure that it isn't the fridge, freezer or A/C kickin' in & out when this happens.]

Often, the clicks that push the main levels into the red are not even audible, and yet they appear.

I know this doesn't come across as good news, nor as any type of helpful solution, but I just don't want you pullin' your hair out if you can't find a fix for it.

Know that at least one other is having similar issues. [We're not using the same audio interfaces.]

jamusic wrote:I've been noticing Cubase 7.5 clipping into the red at any given time. And I'm very vigilant about my levels.

Oh really? This is the AUDIO tracks you are referring to? (ie. you just leave the MIDI fader level at zero/default whist recording?).

jamusic wrote:I'll have a song of about 12 MIDI tacks driving some VSTs, and all of a sudden there will be crackles & pops & then nothing again for an indefinite amount of time. Upon playing the song again it'll be fine for any number of run-throughs.

Oh dear. That a shame for you and I know how much it really interferes with one's 'creativity'. I was wondering if it might just be my 'processors' capabilities because I don't think I experience this on my Win8.1 PC (just on my Win7)? Though I have only really started to notice this over the past few weeks (unless its just that my 'ears' are getting better !! lol).

jamusic wrote:Often, the clicks that push the main levels into the red are not even audible, and yet they appear.

Mmm, that's a weird one.

jamusic wrote:I know this doesn't come across as good news, nor as any type of helpful solution, but I just don't want you pullin' your hair out if you can't find a fix for it.

Thanks for your reply. I am always open to ideas. I do hope you manage to get it sorted for yourself. Have you tried playing your projects on another PC?

jamusic wrote:Know that at least one other is having similar issues. [We're not using the same audio interfaces.]

I see you are also on Win7(64). Which Interface do you have? Would using a super duper interface cure the issue do you think? Could this UR22 be something which is a substitute for the (my) CI2+, or is it a completely different device? :-

I managed to download the v.8.3 Steinberg Interface drivers tonight. I have installed them on both PC's but not tried them out yet. I was only on v.7.3 and it said that the update was designed to fix Latency bugs amongst other things. It also prompted other automatic updates to my Steinberg software so I must have been quite behind.

Just a shot in the dark, but would RAM size help with this? I have 4BG in my Win7 and 8GB in my Win.8.1. Both RAM capacities can be doubled if so desired.

Best,

Paul

Last edited by monsterjazzlicks on Tue May 20, 2014 4:37 am, edited 2 times in total.

I have a basic question which has been puzzling me for a while now. I have checked the forum but could not see a thread relating to this directly or simplistically.

If (as I always do) I record a MIDI TRACK using an external keyboard to play the notes into Cubase (ie. the Midi Data then appears in the 'piano roll'), does it actually matter what the FADER LEVEL is set at (in the F3 mixer) ?? By default, the mixer (white) fader is all the way down at zero (though the green lights show incoming data regardless of this). Then if I move the (white) fader, it 'snaps' and takes control of the level of the incoming data (ie. the green lights for the Midi Track will flash more/less depending where the fader is positioned).

Now, is this VOLUME which is being represented in the Midi Track (F3) mixer ?? And more importantly, regardless of whether or not it is, does it matter where the fader is set, or if it is at its zero position ?? As I say, in default, the incoming level (green lights) is high.

Paul

It is midi volume.Go to your midi track inserts and insert the midi monitor. Play your midi part back & move the fader - you'll see the volume CC's displayed in the midi monitor. However, if you don't move the fader, what you are seeing in terms of the "pulses" is a midi event - usually the note velocity if you're just watching the playback. Try playing a few notes, go into key edit & draw a velocity ramp. Play back the midi part and watch the values in the midi fader change to their max value.Personally I never or rarely display midi tracks in my mixer. I use the filter to turn off the midi channel in the mixer. It saves a lot of mixer clutter & gives you more "real estate".If you do keep the midi tracks displayed, I'd be tempted to leave the faders at zero. After all, you're probably and most likely going to mix through the instrument tracks anywayHope that helpsNeil

Neil BGrowing old is compulsoryGrowing up is optionalhttps://soundcloud.com/neil-buxton/

jamusic wrote:I've been noticing Cubase 7.5 clipping into the red at any given time. And I'm very vigilant about my levels.

Oh really? This is the AUDIO tracks you are referring to? (ie. you just leave the MIDI fader level at zero/default whist recording?).

Hey Paul,

Actually, I'll have adjusted the MIDI channel volumes up from zero by then. Perhaps that's what I'm doing that I shouldn't be. Otherwise, these are the Audio or rather the Instrument [Audio] outputs from the Vst's, for example Kontakt's outputs [assumed most likely to be the culprits] - but no actual Audio tracks in the songs yet. I always start with my MIDI tracks first, then add my Audio tracks later.

jamusic wrote:I'll have a song of about 12 MIDI tacks driving some VSTs, and all of a sudden there will be crackles & pops & then nothing again for an indefinite amount of time. Upon playing the song again it'll be fine for any number of run-throughs.

monsterjazzlicks wrote:Oh dear. That a shame for you and I know how much it really interferes with one's 'creativity'.

For me, it doesn't interfere that much. I just keep pluggin' away, since it comes & goes so quickly - and so sporadically.

jamusic wrote:I know this doesn't come across as good news, nor as any type of helpful solution, but I just don't want you pullin' your hair out if you can't find a fix for it.

monsterjazzlicks wrote:Thanks for your reply. I am always open to ideas. I do hope you manage to get it sorted for yourself. Have you tried playing your projects on another PC?

I only have the one Windows 7 - all 64 bit PC that I built just as my dedicated DAW rig. I put 16 Gigs of RAM into that puppy, as well as 3 SSD's, one 1 TB hard drive & two 1 TB external drives.

And she just hums along & purrs like a kitten! I've even been able to unplug 2 of it's 4 fans. Nice & cool & quiet - even with all 4 fans.

The last rig was just a dual core with only 4 Gigs RAM - 32 bit. It's now a separate house internet/office rig.

jamusic wrote:Know that at least one other is having similar issues. [We're not using the same audio interfaces.]

monsterjazzlicks wrote:I see you are also on Win7(64). Which Interface do you have? Would using a super duper interface cure the issue do you think? Could this UR22 be something which is a substitute for the (my) CI2+, or is it a completely different device? :-

I've had no issues with it when I ran Sonar X2a & Studio One Pro 2 on it, so I think that part of the equation's ok. I don't think my problem is with any physical equipment at all. I'm really quite good at getting that stuff hooked up, configured and working correctly.

For yourself, I think you couldn't go wrong withe UR22 or the UR44. I think they would integrate perfectly with Cubase, as designed.

monsterjazzlicks wrote:I managed to download the v.8.3 Steinberg Interface drivers tonight. I have installed them on both PC's but not tried them out yet. I was only on v.7.3 and it said that the update was designed to fix Latency bugs amongst other things. It also prompted other automatic updates to my Steinberg software so I must have been quite behind.

Just a shot in the dark, but would RAM size help with this? I have 4BG in my Win7 and 8GB in my Win.8.1. Both RAM capacities can be doubled if so desired.

Best,

Paul

I think that upping the RAM is always a good idea and the cheapest & easiest one that always gets suggested first. Whenever I read on optimizing the computer for DAW work, I can't help but notice over & over again that the first suggestion always seems to be to start with cramming as much RAM as possible into the Motherboard.My only regret, is that when choosing a Motherboard when I built this rig, I went with one that could only hold a max amount of 16 Gigs of RAM that I have in it now. It would be nice to have the room for more, if ever needed, although I really do have all the VSTs instruments, FX & libraries that I'll ever want or need by now.

8 Gigs might be enough for Windows 8 Paul, but 4 Gigs might not be enough for Windows 7.

So I can leave it set at default (zero). Or, if I move the fader then it will effect the Volume (via 'Velocity') of the external midi synth (in my case)? To be clear here, I am using a Yamaha DX21 Synth and recording the data (ie. what I play on it) into Cubase onto a Midi Track. Then I play back the Midi Track (which triggers the DX21) whilst enabling an Audio Track to RECORD (the Yamaha DX21). Hence I then have Midi Track and Audio Track versions of the same thing (of which I usually delete the Midi Track when I am happy). The Midi Track green LED's issue occurs right at the very START of this process (ie. when I am making the very first Midi Track recording of the DX21, so as I PLAY IT IN). And therefore, if the levels are not set correctly here at this initial recording stage, then I would guess the damage has been irretrievably done?

The Yamaha DX21 is NOT touch-sensitive (though it can RECIEVE touch-sensitivity information via Midi).

Neil B wrote:Go to your midi track inserts and insert the midi monitor. Play your midi part back & move the fader - you'll see the volume CC's displayed in the midi monitor. However, if you don't move the fader, what you are seeing in terms of the "pulses" is a midi event - usually the note velocity if you're just watching the playback. Try playing a few notes, go into key edit & draw a velocity ramp. Play back the midi part and watch the values in the midi fader change to their max value.

Ok, I will try this out tonight. I have only checked the Midi Track levels (etc) within the F3 (Mixer) window.

Neil B wrote:If you do keep the midi tracks displayed, I'd be tempted to leave the faders at zero. After all, you're probably and most likely going to mix through the instrument tracks anyway.

Once I have a satisfactory Audio Track version (of the external synth part of a song), then I 'mix' using the Audio Track (version) and I will have most probably deleted the Midi Track part anyway. Regarding Instrument Tracks, I am not sure if I am going to do the same thing (Instrument Track to Audio and 'mix' with the Audio), or to just 'mix' with the Instrument Track as it is.

jamusic wrote:I think that upping the RAM is always a good idea and the cheapest & easiest one that always gets suggested first. Whenever I read on optimizing the computer for DAW work, I can't help but notice over & over again that the first suggestion always seems to be to start with cramming as much RAM as possible into the Motherboard.

My only regret, is that when choosing a Motherboard when I built this rig, I went with one that could only hold a max amount of 16 Gigs of RAM that I have in it now. It would be nice to have the room for more, if ever needed, although I really do have all the VSTs instruments, FX & libraries that I'll ever want or need by now.

8 Gigs might be enough for Windows 8 Paul, but 4 Gigs might not be enough for Windows 7.

Thanks Jamusic,

I have booked my Win7 PC in tomorrow for a RAM upgrade (from 4GB to 8) ! They said they need to order it in because the part is different for many PC's. Then they can get next day delivery. Its definitely worth a try as it could be (as you suggest) the cheapest cure.

I am not sure if I need to upgrade my Win8 as its on 8GB and seems to be ok. Is 16GB the next stage, or can you upgrade midway to 12?

jamusic wrote:For yourself, I think you couldn't go wrong with UR22 or the UR44. I think they would integrate perfectly with Cubase, as designed.

Please bear with me ! So are these devices an interface (the SAME as my C12+) but with faster processing and more accuracy? Or is it that they are able to do more tasks of which are more controllable?

In other words, could the UR models solve my issues as well as giving me better recording quality? The C12+ came bundled with 'Cubase Artist 6' so do you think it is (somewhat) a cheap and entry level type?

I noticed the UR range has MIDI on it. Does this mean you can use it like a MidiSport 2x2 (which I have) or are the Midi terminals designed for a totally different purpose?

Really appreciate your help because I am still quite new to this game. Sorry to keep hopping topics (although they are all kind of related in some way).

I am not sure if I need to upgrade my Win8 as its on 8GB and seems to be ok. Is 16GB the next stage, or can you upgrade midway to 12?

This is totally dependent on the computer and or motherboard. I think you said a ways back you had a Dell? Whatever it is you need to go to the Manufactures web set, look up your model and look at the RAM configuration specs. It will also depend on what you have in the machine RAM wise presently. But RAM is pretty cheap these days and adding 8 GB over 4 more should not break the bank. Also realize that many PC's need RAM install in increments of 2 sticks for best results. So it might really be advisable to upgrade to 16 GB total.

On your pops and crackles my guess is that RAM may help as more is always a good thing. But I will be surprised if it cures the issue. As someone else said it comes down to in most cases the buffer size and drivers. I cannot help you on Steinberg's interfaces as I have never used one.