The repo size is a major problem in my opinion. However, since I am one of the packagers, I feel partially responsible for that. Should be doing a better job

As for the number of people using VL - There are 4639 forum members. Also on average there are about 20-30 people reading this forum at any given time(right now there are 40 guests + 3 users). So I don't know, 1K, 5K, maybe 10K people? It's hard for me to make an educated guess.

Not sure how many actually use Vector on a daily basis. But I am sure there are those (like myself) who use it on some of their older machines where nothing else will even come close to what Vector can do. And as far as the repos,.....I am using the KDE classic version on my older P3,...and find that all the programs I need are already on there (except for a word processor, that is). I love the regular Vector Standard,...but the Chestnut Dialer doesn't play nice with my dialup. And I know that the KDE classic (3.5) edition won't be continued,...so I am thinking of just going on to the SOHO edition. And as far as Debian,....I've used that on my main machine (P4) for several years. But I'm thinking that Vector SOHO could replace Debian.

IMHO it's not the size of the repo that is the main problem, since the major players are there and there is a pretty good response rate to the package request subforum. There are 2 problems, as I see it, the first is that when a package on which others depend (mostly libs in this case, but not exclusively) is updated, the dependent packages are not rebuilt and they often "break" (the app stops working because it looks for an older version of the lib, etc). The other problem, which has begun to be resolved, but is still not up to speed, was the need for a separate SOHO repo due to the large discrepancy in base libs between the Standard and SOHO release dates of the "same version" of VL. The separate repo was created finally for VL6 SOHO, but is still pretty empty after an initial rush of packaging.

Logged

O'Neill (RE the Asgard): "Usually they ask nicely before they ignore us and do what they damn well please."http://joe1962.bigbox.infoRunning: VL 7 Std 64 + self-cooked XFCE-4.10

If the topic has turned to...What would influence more people to use Vectorlinux, then I'd agree with just about every thing said so far, collectively, they are all somewhat inter-related.

The place to start influencing everything I think would be the release cycle. IMHO, it seems to be in the wrong order and release cycles are random. As a packager I would prefer Vectorlinux Light leading the way of each new release cycle. Light should just be easier/faster for Vec to put together and release. This would supply the base for the rest of us to work on. Packagers could then begin building the repos against light and the contributions would actually help speed the release of Std and Soho. Since the others could be built immediately following off of that base, it would mean a tighter release cycle.

Debian and Ubuntu, have very regular release cycles (every 6 months). This puts them almost constantly on the front page of Distrowatch. Which in turn publishes a column in Linux Format magazine. That's huge exposure. Also, all the websites that write reviews, write them on new releases. The math is simple, more releases = more reviews = more coverage exposure.

If new versions are released tightly grouped off of the same base it should be possible to share the same repo for that version number. This would mean less repackaging of the same apps and libraries.

I also think it would be huge to have our own repository of SlackBuilds for Vector similar to slackbuilds.org. Ideally, this could be organized in build order so that dependencies can be done first leading up to the main application for those dependencies.

Well, interested in hearing a response. Am I overreaching here, or could a little tweaking to the release cycle go a long way to increasing the Vectorlinux user base.

....eh,...noooooo. (At least NOT Debian)! Debian only releases when it's ready (when-ever-that-may-be.) Anyhow,..you're quite correct about Uboooontee. But Debian hasn't really got a release schedule. But that's also true for Slackware,...right? Maybe Vector is right about not following a rigid schedule (but what do I know,....I'm no programmer LOL!). Maybe just letting the general linux users know that Vector is a "pure" Slackware-based distro,....but with the "bells and whistles" added.

I know nothing about programming and very little about packaging. Of course, it would be great to have huge repos like some of the Big Boys. But... Those packages don't get in there by rubbing a magic lantern. Someone has to build them, and that takes time and sometimes a lot of effort. If we had more volunteer packagers with the requisite skills, we could have much more in the repos. So those who are unhappy about the size of the repos could maybe volunteer to create some of those packages they want.

I can point the finger at myself. I've done two or three packages for VL6 but I've run into difficulty with some I wanted most and simply had no time to get past the problems. In a few months things should be more settled here and I hope to get back to some packaging.

Imagine if VL could hire a full-time packager, or a part-time packager.There probably isn't the money for that and maybe it wouldn't be the best way to spend it, but it would probably take care of the problem.

I've also thought that there should be a way to get the three versions out without such a big gap between releases of each. I don't know if the best way is to start with Light and then add on for Standard and SOHO or to start with Standard, lighten it up for Light, and hook KDE onto Standard for SOHO. Maybe there are difficulties with this I don't see. But when I've added KDE from the repos to Standard, it has worked fine and I still don't have to run the KDE desktop if I don't want to. I have Light on my laptop and I like it very much. Mine isn't "light," though, as I've built on the base of Light and have plenty of nonlight stuff on it. On another laptop now serving as a desktop because the laptop screen's backlight has stopped working, I have VL6 Light plus KDE, but I use IceWM because I don't like KDE. IceWM is a really nice desktop for those who have never tried it. I prefer XFce because it's easier to configure but I sure don't mind using IceWM during the many hours every day that I use the Dell laptop. Maybe we could have ONE release with all the needed stuff there and options to install for Light, for Standard, and for SOHO, with different packages being selected for each one. So I'd just select Light if that's what I wanted or SOHO if I wanted KDE and more bells and whistles or Standard if I wanted something in between. All these options probably wouldn't fit on one CD. So do we have to stick to that as a rule?

I definitely would not want us emulate Ubuntu and have an absolute schedule for releases every six months. It's too much like CorelDraw in my Windows days, where they always scheduled a release in time for the annual shareholders meeting. Those releases were invariably really buggy and it would take a couple of service packs until they got stable. I've read plenty of complaints when new releases of Ubuntu and others come out and people figure it'll be taken care of through updates. Why not just delay the thing until it's ready? That just subjects users to being involuntary beta testers, which is not what the users expected. No release will ever be bug free, including VectorLinux, especially when there are as few beta testers as we have. (Hint, hint--this is something you can do even if you don't know much about running Linux. You just need enough free hard drive space to create a new partition for testing.)

I don't think it's a notice on DistroWatch that makes people try a distro. Well, maybe some of the techie types. But with general (normal) users, I think it's a sort of word of mouth. The online computer press has latched onto Ubuntu as the One True Linux, mentions it every time desktop Linux comes up, and in the public's eye, Linux equals Ubuntu. I see a lot of ignorance in reviews of distros. The reviewers know a few distros and those are the ones they mention. They certainly haven't tried every good candidate out there. It's a lot easier to just repeat the Standard Script, which is Ubuntu, Ubuntu, Ubuntu. I think VectorLinux is easy to use, and if you throw in opensourcebistro and this forum, we are among the easiest, most user friendly distros. You'd never know that from reading the online computer press, though.--GrannyGeek

The online computer press has latched onto Ubuntu as the One True Linux, mentions it every time desktop Linux comes up, and in the public's eye, Linux equals Ubuntu. I see a lot of ignorance in reviews of distros. The reviewers know a few distros and those are the ones they mention. They certainly haven't tried every good candidate out there. It's a lot easier to just repeat the Standard Script, which is Ubuntu, Ubuntu, Ubuntu.

...and a big "Amen" to THAT, GrannyGeek! (True-er words were never spoke). ...but my personal ideas would be to correlate EXACTLY Vector to the Slackware repos. So that one (if they have a basic knowledge of Slackware quirks,....) could just add or subtract an app directly from the Slackware repos. (just my little $.02 worth of stuff here).

I don't think Slackware has that many apps in its official repos. The ones in slacky.eu aren't Slack-approved, to my knowledge. Likewise for linuxpackages.net. I also don't know if the official packages pull down dependencies.--GrannyGeek

....eh,...noooooo. (At least NOT Debian)! Debian only releases when it's ready (when-ever-that-may-be.) Anyhow,..you're quite correct about Uboooontee. But Debian hasn't really got a release schedule. But that's also true for Slackware,...right? Maybe Vector is right about not following a rigid schedule (but what do I know,....I'm no programmer LOL!). Maybe just letting the general linux users know that Vector is a "pure" Slackware-based distro,....but with the "bells and whistles" added.

You are right to correct me on the Debian issue, but I don't want my point(s) to be lost in the static. A regular release cycle does three things...a)Prevents the kind of disconnect between base dependencies that we have seen recently with the Soho release, b)A regular release cycle reflects well on the stability of the distribution as a whole and keeps the development team in sync, and c) maximizes exposure to the masses, via Distrowatch and release announcements and reviews.

One more note on release cycles. I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel each release. The cycle for a team this size could be a full release on year one and a maintenance release on year two. A full release being a build from scratch with the introduction of innovative new ideas, and a maintenance release being just an upgrade of the kernel, and core dependencies such as glib, gtk+, qt4, wxWidgets, perl or any other base dependency that may prevent people from being able to build what they want once they become outdated. (This is the current state of VL6.0, many new versions of apps, simply can not be built against it.)

Sure letting people know that VL is Slackware with bells whistles and polish to spare will help, all I'm saying is that in the Linux world the release cycle is the best soapbox one can stand on to get their word out.

Don't mistake me, I'm not knocking VL. I really think this is potentially a good move and worth discussing.

I am not a developer, but I have to say as a user Vector Linux has come on in leaps and bounds in terms of usability and aesthetics in each major release. When you go back to before Vector 4 you had a very fast system whose great glory was vasm, but visually was cluttered with every app having a destop icon. 4 brought a better look and in my view a much improved selection of applications. 5 gave us one of the best looking IceWM desktops ever, and unified the look and themes so that KDE and IceWM matched. 6 gave us VASMCC and better internationalisation as well as a graphical installation mode.

Personally I'm not so bothered how many people use Vector as long as sufficient use it to keep Vec and the team producing this great distro. I've never had the impression that they are clamouring to be No.1 in the charts, only to produce the "best" distro for their intended users.

As for the reps, the most common apps are there I think. The important thing to my mind (as has already been mentioned) is to try and keep the libs in sync so that the more obscure apps can be compiled easily and upgrades don't break already-installed programs.

GrannyGeek's suggestion for more people to become testers strikes a chord and I have been testing the new Alpha too. As for making packages, I have tried and failed every time, even for programs I can compile easily. There are lots of posts on the forum about this and there is vpackager, but it seems to need skills that I don't possess. If someone could put together the "Dummies Guide to Packaging" then maybe more people like me would be able to package their favourite apps and help to expand the reps.

For the most part, the packages actually ARE there. Between the Slackware, Slax, Salix ,Vector, and Kens work at The Bistro with using rpm or deb, on Vector, it's a little work but it's mostly all there.My recommendation is a giant orgy of all slackers to create an additional universal repo used by all.

This has always been an issue with LL, Living Linux.That's why there are 17,000,000,000 flavors of Debian.