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Re: Here's my plea

Keeping Peyton wasn't fair to the Colts fan or Peyton. The team to win a superbowl just wasn't there. We would have wasted Peytons final years. And missed out on quite possibly another HoF QB, who in time may be able to lead us back to the superbowl.

If we want to be mad at somebody be mad at Polian for failing to refresh the team the way the Pats do. Not Irsay for doing what was best for both parties.

Thank you.... thank you... thank you....

100 more thank yous...

Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

------

"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

Re: Here's my plea

Threads like this are like picking up a bee hive and shaking it. Like a bee and his stinger, the trolls will come out and post vigorously.

But I find OlBlu in small doses to be a nice diversion from reality. He owns this forum though, so it's easy to get too much. The good news is, looking at the old fart, he doesn't have much time left. Those Double Whoppers he eats while on the road are catching up with him.

Posts like these make people that are annoyed with him, have to defend him. Thats just not a cool thing to say about anyone. Just like i dont think it's cool for him to be rooting for Luck to get hurt. Anyone who wishes harm on a player or a poster or a coach or whatever, needs to have there forum handle locked for a few days so they can take a step back into reality, because obviously they just dont get it.

Re: Here's my plea

Oh, nobody took that seriously and certainly not OlBlu. Dude dishes it out...

I don't care. I've spent too much time on message boards and heard too many stories about the detriment an on the surface innocuous "joke" can cause to just brush it off because in this one instance it's not a big deal.

I'm not trying to be a cowboy moderator or whatever, but words, heard to one's face or read off a screen, have an impact. Strictly my opinion but the type of statement you made is at the very least completely reckless. It has no place in civilized discussion. I'm not trying to get on the soapbox, but seriously, c'mon people; golden rule.

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Heisenberg For This Useful Post:

Re: Here's my plea

You guys can't be for real. You actually buy into it? Please tell me you don't REALLY believe that he's a 65 year old travelling producer who walks his dog with 25 kids follwing him around the monuments in Washington DC. BTW, I wouldn't have seen any of this if people would stop quoting him and circumventing my ignore list. All BlueNGold is doing is looking at his fake picture and pointing out a lie that gets more ridiculous by the day.

Re: Here's my plea

Posts like these make people that are annoyed with him, have to defend him. Thats just not a cool thing to say about anyone. Just like i dont think it's cool for him to be rooting for Luck to get hurt. Anyone who wishes harm on a player or a poster or a coach or whatever, needs to have there forum handle locked for a few days so they can take a step back into reality, because obviously they just dont get it.

I have never once rooted for Luck to get hurt. I have said over and over that I don't want that to happen. What I did say is that when I have watched the punishment he is taking, getting hurt is inevitable..... It was for RGIII too and I am a big fan of his.... Does Michael Vick get hurt? I know, I know, Luck is a big strong boy and that could never happen to him It can happen to anyone taking violent hits in the NFL.....

Re: Here's my plea

You guys can't be for real. You actually buy into it? Please tell me you don't REALLY believe that he's a 65 year old travelling producer who walks his dog with 25 kids follwing him around the monuments in Washington DC. BTW, I wouldn't have seen any of this if people would stop quoting him and circumventing my ignore list. All BlueNGold is doing is looking at his fake picture and pointing out a lie that gets more ridiculous by the day.

The picture isn't fake and the story is real. My occupation is just as I said it was. If you want to send me your email privately, I will show you the motorhome, the dog more pictures of me at work and play. Why would I lie about any of this? The people are going to keep quoting me so you had best just learn how to skip over a post before you apoplexy or something similar. I fear for your good health if you keep ranting like this.....

Re: Here's my plea

I can sympathize with this. I also miss Peyton a lot. He looks pretty damn good right now. I like Luck a lot, but seeing Manning finish his career somewhere else is pretty tough to watch.

Does anyone not miss Peyton? Peyton gave us 14 amazing years. It would have been unfair to keep him here. It was the right move for him and the Colts. It would have been selfish of us as Colts fans to expect Peyton to waste the last couple years of his career here on a bad team. Instead we can allow Luck to grow with them instead of slowly watching Peyton waste away.

Peyton was sacked zero times last night behind that Broncos offensive line, as much as OlBlu likes to point out that Luck will get hurt here this year, then how could we have possibly expected Peyton to make it through this season? The offensive line was going to be garbage regardless and maybe even worse if we had kept Peyton's contract. It would have been a really poor way to send out Peyton IMO. Yes Peyton is great, but it is completely unfair to compare Luck to him right now, you guys know that deep down. I think OlBlu does too, honestly, a lot of his posts yesterday afternoon were very thoughtful on the subject as a whole.

I wish he would give Luck a chance, and not just "hate" him. Luck has done nothing other than perform at every level to earn his draft ranking.

If we want to be "mad" or "hate" anyone, as someone already mentioned, Polian is the guy who should have every finger pointing at him. He WASTED, our last half decade of early draft picks. I honestly can't think of many GMs that were worse than him in the whole league over his last 5 years here.

Re: Here's my plea

Does anyone not miss Peyton? Peyton gave us 14 amazing years. It would have been unfair to keep him here. It was the right move for him and the Colts. It would have been selfish of us as Colts fans to expect Peyton to waste the last couple years of his career here on a bad team. Instead we can allow Luck to grow with them instead of slowly watching Peyton waste away.

Peyton was sacked zero times last night behind that Broncos offensive line, as much as OlBlu likes to point out that Luck will get hurt here this year, then how could we have possibly expected Peyton to make it through this season? The offensive line was going to be garbage regardless and maybe even worse if we had kept Peyton's contract. It would have been a really poor way to send out Peyton IMO. Yes Peyton is great, but it is completely unfair to compare Luck to him right now, you guys know that deep down. I think OlBlu does too, honestly, a lot of his posts yesterday afternoon were very thoughtful on the subject as a whole.

I wish he would give Luck a chance, and not just "hate" him. Luck has done nothing other than perform at every level to earn his draft ranking.

If we want to be "mad" or "hate" anyone, as someone already mentioned, Polian is the guy who should have every finger pointing at him. He WASTED, our last half decade of early draft picks. I honestly can't think of many GMs that were worse than him in the whole league over his last 5 years here.

Early draft picks, like all draft picks are basically a 50-50 proposition for a good GM. Yes, his early picks were bad for five years. They were GREAT before that. Some of that is offset by his ability to get so much out of middle round picks, late picks and undrafted free agents. I am never going to agree with you about letting Manning go. This team did not have to sink as low as it did. They could have used high draft picks for linemen if they didn't have to get tight ends to keep Luck happy. It didn't take long for Jacob to wind up in Denver with Peyton. If they hadn't taken Luck, they would have had the biggest haul of high draft choices in history. I think Peyton wouldn't have any trouble taking this team to ten wins if that had been done. I certainly don't blame that on the Polians. I do blame it on the lying owner. Luck will be compared to Peyton and to RGIII for his entire career. Right now, that comparison is pretty bleak. You see the Colts developing and winning. I seem them as perpetual losers for five to ten years. I will stick with my opinion (perhaps influenced by my hatred of the entire situation) that Luck will not be even a remote shadow to Peyton and not nearly the player RGIII is going to be.

Re: Here's my plea

Early draft picks, like all draft picks are basically a 50-50 proposition for a good GM. Yes, his early picks were bad for five years. They were GREAT before that. Some of that is offset by his ability to get so much out of middle round picks, late picks and undrafted free agents. I am never going to agree with you about letting Manning go. This team did not have to sink as low as it did. They could have used high draft picks for linemen if they didn't have to get tight ends to keep Luck happy. It didn't take long for Jacob to wind up in Denver with Peyton. If they hadn't taken Luck, they would have had the biggest haul of high draft choices in history. I think Peyton wouldn't have any trouble taking this team to ten wins if that had been done. I certainly don't blame that on the Polians. I do blame it on the lying owner. Luck will be compared to Peyton and to RGIII for his entire career. Right now, that comparison is pretty bleak. You see the Colts developing and winning. I seem them as perpetual losers for five to ten years. I will stick with my opinion (perhaps influenced by my hatred of the entire situation) that Luck will not be even a remote shadow to Peyton and not nearly the player RGIII is going to be.

You make a lot of strong points. At worst, we would be 3-2 with Manning right now. Maybe even 4-1. We were going to lose the Chicago game with or without Manning I think. Manning would have carved up all of the easy teams on our schedule this year and we would have probably won 11 or 12 games with him, especially if we had used the number 1 pick to bring in a haul of assets.

I just don't buy all of this talk that it would have been some giant disservice of epic proportions to bring Peyton back to this allegedly abysmal Colts team. Would Peyton have been content with coming back to the Colts this season and beyond? I think that's an obvious yes. No question he wanted to end his career here. If it would have been good enough for him, then why do we as fans say that it would have been a disservice to do it? This current Colts team isn't as drastically bad as some make it out to be. We are 2-3 and have a good shot at going 3-3 with a rookie QB. Manning would have unleashed on all of the cupcake teams on our schedule.

TraderJoe, you make a good point about the O-Line potentially jeopardizing Manning's health. However, don't forget that the number 1 pick could have been used to bring in an obscene haul of assets which likely could have included lineman or picks to bring in lineman.

Olblu, you make lots of good points. However, I'm puzzled at how you can hate Irsay while at the same time you seem to absolve the Polians of any blame. Look at the Polian's drafting from 2007 onward. Crap draft after crap draft. It's as if Polian lost his touch immediately after we won the Super Bowl. Winning a Super Bowl was the last thing he needed on his resume', so it make sense to think that he began to let his son handle more things in the later years. Regardless, they did an absolutely horrible job the last 5 years they were here and are a huge reason why Manning is no longer on the roster. This team was completely ill-equipped to handle life without Manning. Why didn't we look at dumping Curtis Painter once it became clear in 2009 that he was awful?

I like Andrew Luck a lot and think he will have a great career here. However, I just don't get this whole mindset that it would have been armageddon for both the Colts franchise and Manning if we had brought him back.

Re: Here's my plea

You make a lot of strong points. At worst, we would be 3-2 with Manning right now. Maybe even 4-1. We were going to lose the Chicago game with or without Manning I think. Manning would have carved up all of the easy teams on our schedule this year and we would have probably won 11 or 12 games with him, especially if we had used the number 1 pick to bring in a haul of assets.

I just don't buy all of this talk that it would have been some giant disservice of epic proportions to bring Peyton back to this allegedly abysmal Colts team. Would Peyton have been content with coming back to the Colts this season and beyond? I think that's an obvious yes. No question he wanted to end his career here. If it would have been good enough for him, then why do we as fans say that it would have been a disservice to do it? This current Colts team isn't as drastically bad as some make it out to be. We are 2-3 and have a good shot at going 3-3 with a rookie QB. Manning would have unleashed on all of the cupcake teams on our schedule.

TraderJoe, you make a good point about the O-Line potentially jeopardizing Manning's health. However, don't forget that the number 1 pick could have been used to bring in an obscene haul of assets which likely could have included lineman or picks to bring in lineman.

Olblu, you make lots of good points. However, I'm puzzled at how you can hate Irsay while at the same time you seem to absolve the Polians of any blame. Look at the Polian's drafting from 2007 onward. Crap draft after crap draft. It's as if Polian lost his touch immediately after we won the Super Bowl. Winning a Super Bowl was the last thing he needed on his resume', so it make sense to think that he began to let his son handle more things in the later years. Regardless, they did an absolutely horrible job the last 5 years they were here and are a huge reason why Manning is no longer on the roster. This team was completely ill-equipped to handle life without Manning. Why didn't we look at dumping Curtis Painter once it became clear in 2009 that he was awful?

I like Andrew Luck a lot and think he will have a great career here. However, I just don't get this whole mindset that it would have been armageddon for both the Colts franchise and Manning if we had brought him back.

Make no mistake about it, the Polians were driven out because they didn't believe in releasing Manning and drafting Luck to replace him. Their picks at the top were not so good although Donald Brown and Hughes are still playing for the team. Their middle and late round picks held up just fine. But I don't disagree with what you say about them. It is yet to be seen what this new group will do. I think drafting two tight ends was silly but not the worst thing ever. I like everything else you had to say.....

Re: Here's my plea

Make no mistake about it, the Polians were driven out because they didn't believe in releasing Manning and drafting Luck to replace him.

I don't think that's true. The Manning decision was always going to be 100% on Irsay. It didn't really matter what anyone else thought. Make no mistake, the Polians were canned because the wheels came off last season.

Re: Here's my plea

To me that is a pretty big question mark to just hope that the assets we would have acquired with the number 1 pick would have fixed a lot of our issues.

I get that people miss Manning, heck if you go back to March on this board, I would have been fine with bringing Manning back and even letting Luck learn under him, but as I watch this team, I don't know. This is a bad football team IMO, yes maybe all those assets we get for the number 1 pick and Luck pan out, but maybe they don't. Was there a more sure fire pick in the draft than the Luck? Maybe that tackle from USC, but that's about it. There is a reason Luck has been touted so high for over two years now.

Luck deserves credit for that. At the start of his junior year, he was the sure fire number 1 pick, and even I predicted that as he stayed in college people would pick apart his game and start to find flaws. I thought ti would happen we almost always see it happen with "sure fire" number 1s. Someone always displaces them by the end of the season. Well Luck made it through his whole junior year without that happening. I thought it would happen AGAIN his senior year, that the more we saw Luck we would finally see something that made everyone say, this kid isn't quite as good as we think, but nope yet again, he was still number 1 at the end of his senior year, even after RGIII put an all out blitz on that pick. Luck was still the guy, and I don't think any other franchise would have played any differently than the way Colts did when it comes down to RGIII vs. Luck.

And now even as we sit in week 5 of his rookie year and people still keep trying to poke holes in his game, what has Luck done? Oh, only already lead two 4th quarter game winning drives in his first 5 games (should be 3, I think we can all agree it should be 3, his team let him down against Jacksonville, period), I mean think about this for a second two 4th quarter game winning drives in his first 5 games, when he did it agianst Minnesota, it had been over 40 years since someone had done that. That is incredible, that is HISTORY making. And while he's doing this, yes, maybe he hasn't been the best QB in the league, but his advanced QBR has been in the top 5 all season, his yards per game is also top 5, he is running perhaps the most advanced offensive scheme we have ever seen a rookie run, a downfield passing attack with lots of route options and reads that occasionally goes no huddle. His completion percentage needs to get better, I agree and understand that, but I also understand that his completion percentage is right in line with where Peyton was 6 games into his rookie career and that was running a much less complicated offense at the time with a better supporting cast particularly on the offensive line.

Yes, RGIII is great, I have never, ever denied this, back in April, I honestly did not care who we drafted between RGIII and Luck. I thought both were going to be great, part of me was excited at the prospect of RGIII even. I don't resent OlBlu for liking RGIII what I do resent is the insinuation that somehow RGIII is amazing while Luck sucks, because it is just not true or even based in reality. If they both keep up what they are doing all season it will probably be the two greatest rookie years for QBs EVER and it will happen in THE SAME YEAR. This is incredible on so many levels. even I thought it was a long shot 6 weeks ago, but it is really happening.

No one really thought we would be 2-3 right now. Heck, OlBlu didn't even think we would win 2 games all year. And a big reason we have those 2 wins is because of number 12. He's played like a vet in crunch time three times now, he has been brilliant in the two minute drill in every game. Give the kid some credit, he's not Peyton Manning right now, but he might be some day, and regardless of who you want to blame for the Manning thing, Luck is not the guy who should take it, because if it wasn't him sitting there at the number 1 pick, then it would have been RGIII.

Re: Here's my plea

I don't think that's true. The Manning decision was always going to be 100% on Irsay. It didn't really matter what anyone else thought. Make no mistake, the Polians were canned because the wheels came off last season.

I don't believe that for one minute. They were not on board with the decision and that is why they were run out. We would be better right now if they had stayed. They put together one of the best runs in NFL history. It wasn't an accident.

Re: Here's my plea

Make no mistake about it, the Polians were driven out because they didn't believe in releasing Manning and drafting Luck to replace him.

I must be mistaken then.... from what I heard Irsay was not happy about the nepotism with Polian and son. The relationship was slightly strained previous to that by Polian pushing Howard Mudd and Tom Moore out the door. Mudd and Moore were Dungy guys and Polian was slowly cutting away folks who had been faithful to the former coach.

You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

Re: Here's my plea

I don't believe that for one minute. They were not on board with the decision and that is why they were run out. We would be better right now if they had stayed. They put together one of the best runs in NFL history. It wasn't an accident.

Polian was great at finding talent from 1998-06. That is indisputable. But from 07 onward he was bad and the greatness of Manning covered up his poor decisions. It was time for him to go.

Re: Here's my plea

To me that is a pretty big question mark to just hope that the assets we would have acquired with the number 1 pick would have fixed a lot of our issues.

Do you think all draft picks are big question marks, or just extra draft picks?

Even if it's a big question mark, you get more chances to make impactful selections. If you don't have faith in the front office, with extra picks, then their alloted amount should be even bigger question marks.

I think Luck is the better player when comparing just Luck and RGIII, but if it's RGIII+extra talent, I don't think Luck is THAT much better.

Re: Here's my plea

Do you think all draft picks are big question marks, or just extra draft picks?

Even if it's a big question mark, you get more chances to make impactful selections. If you don't have faith in the front office, with extra picks, then their alloted amount should be even bigger question marks.

All draft picks are question marks for the most part. I don't think Luck, RGIII, or Khalil in this draft were question marks. Everyone else question mark IMO. And this is a team with a lot of holes to fill, I don't think one draft was going to do it.

Re: Here's my plea

Polian was great at finding talent from 1998-06. That is indisputable. But from 07 onward he was bad and the greatness of Manning covered up his poor decisions. It was time for him to go.

You guys seem to be forgetting that Chris Polain was the guy who ran the drafts in the later years and totally botched the early rounds. He sucked and his daddy didn't want to the job fulltime anymore.

Re: Here's my plea

Do you think all draft picks are big question marks, or just extra draft picks?

Even if it's a big question mark, you get more chances to make impactful selections. If you don't have faith in the front office, with extra picks, then their alloted amount should be even bigger question marks.

I think Luck is the better player when comparing just Luck and RGIII, but if it's RGIII+extra talent, I don't think Luck is THAT much better.

I can understand this argument but then again you would have had to trade back one selection which is a lot harder than people make it out to be. It probably could have been done but I am not sold that its just a simple phone call away with the Rams. They have their guy but all that aside your looking at 3 first round picks one of which is RG3 and then what? We have seen multiple first round draft picks have there season derailed by injury so its not a forgone conclusion that a second round selection in 2012 and a first in 2013 and 2014 would make a major impact.

Edit: It will be interesting to see how much the Rams improve in the coming years.

Re: Here's my plea

The only way we could have gotten RGIII is if we would have drafted him with our number 1 pick. There was no feasible way to get RGIII + draft picks. St. Louis wouldn't have wanted our number one pick because they already have Sam Bradford on the roster. They would have then had a ton of money invested in two quarterbacks which obviously makes no sense whatsoever. Trading that second pick for a haul of assets (4 picks) from Washington was a much better option for them than giving us a bunch of stuff for a position they already had filled. Sam Bradford + four extra draft picks is better than Luck + Bradford minus four draft picks of your own. It's a difference of like 7 or 8 picks.

RGIII + draft picks might sound nice on paper, but it was impossible given the circumstances. You have to look at the team that had the number 2 pick and they had no use whatsoever for our number 1 pick.

Re: Here's my plea

There it is folks. He admits it. He just flat out hates Luck. He has said that he wants Luck to succeed but clearly that is crap and a lie. I have time for trolls, trolls can be fun. I don't have time for someone who will just hate hate hate for no reason.

So please, I've had as much fun with him as the next guy, but it's about to kill the Colts board. It is sucking all the fun out of watching Luck. I got what I really wanted from him. An admission that he is just a bitter man who hates Andrew Luck for no reason. So leave him to his devices.

Ignore him, block him, whatever.

Just let's let it be at this point. We are not going to get anywhere with someone who is consumed with blind hate. I don't care whether he continues to post or not. I won't be reading or responding to anything this guy says again.

Go Colts

About to? It already did because people don't know how to use the ignore button.

Re: Here's my plea

He questions the competence of anyone who wanted to retain Manning, then follows it up with this gem:

Yes, better than Peyton was in 1998. Hell, he's better than Peyton was in 2000.

You can definitely say that Luck is a better rookie than Peyton for the simple reason that he shouldn't throw anywhere close to the 28 picks that Peyton threw. But saying Luck is currently better than Peyton in 2000 has to be one of the silliest things I've ever heard.

If Luck has a second and third season like that, I'll be doing cartwheels. I like Luck a lot, but BBS had no right calling Colts fans who wanted Manning back dumb when he is saying that Luck is currently better than a third year Manning who was hanging 33 TDs and a passer rating in the mid 90's.

He questions the competence of anyone who wanted to retain Manning, then follows it up with this gem:

Yes, better than Peyton was in 1998. Hell, he's better than Peyton was in 2000.

You can definitely say that Luck is a better rookie than Peyton for the simple reason that he shouldn't throw anywhere close to the 28 picks that Peyton threw. But saying Luck is currently better than Peyton in 2000 has to be one of the silliest things I've ever heard.

If Luck has a second and third season like that, I'll be doing cartwheels. I like Luck a lot, but BBS had no right calling Colts fans who wanted Manning back dumb when he is saying that Luck is currently better than a third year Manning who was hanging 33 TDs and a passer rating in the mid 90's.

BBS is a complete tool, but it would be irrational to keep Manning when this team was rebuilding.

Re: Here's my plea

It wasn't impossible. Arguing that it wouldn't have been easy is one thing, arguing it is completely impossible to do is totally different.

No doubt the FO would have to get creative, and it would most likely need more than one trade to happen, but that's not outside the realm of possbility. Just look at what StL did in the draft. They took their #2 pick, turned it into #6 with extra picks, then turned #6 into #14 and more extra picks.

Picks 2-7 were all traded due to teams jockeying for position to get the high talent left overs. Not only that but there were 19 trades total for just the first round last year, with 3 teams making multiple trades out of the 19 total trades.