If you were to guess what country would come up with a way to get around the minimum drinking age for minors, what would it be? Most readers of the site would guess the Netherlands and would be right.

A college student has designed a new alcoholic powder that skirts the under 16 drinking limits in the Netherlands. Of course, the idea that a college graduate is so concerned with getting the under 16 crowd drunk is probably it’s own concern. Maybe he wants to room with a certain someone we all know who is attending University in the Netherlands.

The latest innovation in inebriation, called Booz2Go, is available in 20-gramme packets that cost 1-1.5 euros (70 pence-1 pound).Top it up with water and you have a bubbly, lime-coloured and -flavoured drink with just 3 percent alcohol content.“We are aiming for the youth market. They are really more into it because you can compare it with Bacardi-mixed drinks,” 20-year-old Harm van Elderen told Reuters.Van Elderen and four classmates at Helicon Vocational Institute, about an hour’s drive from Amsterdam, came up with the idea as part of their final-year project.“Because the alcohol is not in liquid form, we can sell it to people below 16,” said project member Martyn van Nierop. via Yahoo! News.

If you feel that bad that you need to get lit, go see a DR, there is something wrong in the coconut(s)

Robert on
June 6th, 2007 2:05 pm

“If you were to guess what country would come up with a way to get around the minimum drinking age for minors, what would it be? Most readers of the site would guess the Netherlands and would be right.”

I would gues uuhhhhh… The US!?

“Alcohol powder, classified as a flavouring, was sold in the United States three years ago.”

I’m slowly getting sick of this unfounded and DUMB Netherlands-bashing. Are you all realy that stupid!? I think it’s pathetic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

nishika on
June 6th, 2007 2:20 pm

I think it has been discussed a lot here… but…there is NO minimum drinking age for minors in the Netherlands! The law only prohibits the selling of alcohol…
18 you can buy what you want

But drinking… you can do at a lot younger age… You just need someone else to buy it for you

Robert on
June 6th, 2007 2:37 pm

# minnesota dad | June 6, 2007, 12:39 pm
“Great…..they are proficient in the use of GHB…now we are going to give the Dutch youth powdered alcohol???

Geez….what are the Dutch thinking! md”

Yeah, GHB more and more gets in use in the dutch discotheques…
And who do you think we got it from…. You may guess… Three times… And to keep it simple (for you… the simple ones…) First letter is a U… Last letter a S…..

nishika on
June 6th, 2007 2:51 pm

By the way…apparently minors are allowed to drink alcohol in a lot of your states as well…. check this:

Financial incentives create de facto federal purchase age of 21. The National Minimum Drinking Age Act of 1984 states that revenue will be withheld from states that allow the purchase of alcohol to anyone under the age of 21. Some states do not allow those under the legal drinking age to be present in liquor stores or in bars (usually, the difference between a bar and a restaurant is whether food is being served). Contrary to popular belief, since National Minimum Drinking Age Act of 1984, few states specifically prohibit minors’ consumption of alcohol in private settings (an exception includes Connecticut). In some cases or states, alcohol permits can be purchased at a cost to the parent or legal guardian. As of 2006, 20 states do not specifically ban underage consumption and an additional 15 states have family member and/or location exceptions to their underage consumption laws. [3]
Federal law explicitly provides for religious, medical, employment and private club possession exceptions; as of 2005, 31 states have family member and/or location exceptions to their underage possession laws. [4]
Underage purchase of alcohol, though illegal in all fifty states, is not a federal offense, although restrictions on highway funding for states that allow it make it illegal federally de facto.

Good grief Robert….they are talking about marketing it to children in your fine country….that IS illegal in the US.

Robert on
June 6th, 2007 3:37 pm

Long before anyone in the NL’s ever heard of LSD it was WIDELY in use in the US!
Long before anyone in the NL’s ever heard of heroin it was WIDELY in use in the US!
Long before anyone in the NL’s ever heard of speed… it was WIDELY in use in the US!
Long before anyone in the NL’s ever heard of crystelmeth… it was WIDELY in use in the US!
Long before anyone in the NL’s ever heard of coke… it was WIDELY in use in the US!
Long before anyone in the NL’s ever heard of crack… it was WIDELY in use in the US
Long before anyone in the NL’s ever heard of GHB… it was WIDELY in use in the US
Etc, etc, etc, …..

sparrow | June 6, 2007, 3:07 pm
Is that all you can do?! Spit your ignorant HATE at me? You maybe think you’re a good Christian??!! My guess is that YOU never, ever make it to HEAVEN!!!

Jason on
June 6th, 2007 4:00 pm

these personal attacks and insults are pointless.

chris on
June 6th, 2007 4:03 pm

These are the people we rely on to find the correct solution to Natalee’s murder. I wish us luck!!

Robert on
June 6th, 2007 4:14 pm

# Jason | June 6, 2007, 4:00 pm

What’s the point of bashing the Netherlands constantly? Have you mentioned that to the Scared Monkeys people and posters?

________________

SM: I agree! The Netherlands is not the enemy here. The three main suspects are the enemy and the ALE and Government in Aruba that have covered up the case (klaasend)

Robert on
June 6th, 2007 4:18 pm

# chris | June 6, 2007, 4:03 pm

Oh, there we have the new world champion generalisations…. (It’s me, Robert!!! This is not the Netherlands speaking!!!)

nishika on
June 6th, 2007 4:38 pm

What happened to Scared Monkeys???
I did follow the proceedings in the Natalee Holloway case for about 6 months in 2005. I cannot remember SM writing articles soooo anti-dutch! And as far as I’m concerned totally unnecesary. Is this the way to discuss Natalee’s case? I have noticed some narrow-minded reactions before but I’m really surprised that SM itself developed this way.
Shouldn’t we all try to be friends instead of enemies? Especially because I feel everyone here wants the same…to have this case solved!

Vicki on
June 6th, 2007 4:52 pm

Look,ppl from the NL.. we here at SM’s are losing our patience.. with all of the nonsense that has happened since May 30th 2005. Dont you get it…WE WONT GO AWAY. we are angry and disgusted. However, this is an article…you know in the news and thats what SM does. Take articles and reprints them for discussion. Your Dutch investigators were on the Island from the beginning and all there was was a cover up and friends looking out for friends. NOONE LOOKED OUT FOR NATALEE or her family.
So not only has Natalee been beamed up by aliens or swam across an ocean to hide somewhere to start a new life, but her Mother has gone thru hell and back and her Dad and family also. Its DISPICABLE that URINE has said he will tell one day, but not now and papasweat also…WHY DOESNT THE DUTCH ARREST THEM?????? Can you RIDDLE ME THAT????ANYONE

I agree #17, even though I am a newbie here and can’t speak for what this board was like two years ago. The ultimate goal is to get the answers and solve the case – and with the exception of the perps involved I would imagine everyone to be on the same side.

P.S. Robert – there is no shame in having pride in your country (if that’s where your from – don’t mean to presume); I can understand you feeling defensive.

Robert on
June 6th, 2007 5:10 pm

# Vicki | June 6, 2007, 4:52 pm

A lot of people in the Netherlands are losing their patience too. We want the preps behind bars as well. But we have to deal with the LAWS of both Aruba as the Netherlands! We are a constitutional state!

About the mission of SM. Don’t you think the choice of article sometimes is a bit onesided? Is SMs mission to slander the NLs? I think SM and all of us here should stick to the point in the Natalee Holloway case, focus on the crime and the suspects/perps and not bash one another!!!

Robert on
June 6th, 2007 5:37 pm

Sorry. I have to leave the discussion. Have to withdraw… For you the evening is just beginning. For me… bed is calling.
Bye, love you all.

tennesse on
June 6th, 2007 5:42 pm

#18 Vicki
Why don’t you go back and reread that Current Affair article when Joran said one day he would tell all but not now. read it with eyes open this time and take in ALL of the words not just pick out a line or two.

He was answering the reporters question about speaking to the media and the public about what he knows, he was not talking about investigators.

But something tells me you really aren’t about keeping things in context or too concerned about finding out what he really meant. Much more sinister sounding to just snip that one line to make your own meaning and say he’s still withholding evidence isn’t it?

tennesse on
June 6th, 2007 5:50 pm

Current Affair Interview

Reporter: But, you are the last guy that was with her. I mean, there is….

Joran van der Sloot: I was the last guy who admitted to being with her, but ok.

Reporter: Ok, the last guy that was seen with her. I am going to put it to you that way. You guys were the last guys with her. If you guys had been a little bit more forthcoming… You are talking to me like you are kind of like a victim, in a way.

Joran van der Sloot: No, I am not a victim at all. I am not a victim at all. I said, I think it is sad, what the press is doing. But, I am not a victim at all. I know what I did was wrong, and for lying, I probably deserve to be in that jail for three months. But, I did not do anything against the law and they have to let you go. They have to let me get on with my life. And, I hope you guys let me get on with my life too.

Reporter: Well, I think if you can explain to people what really happened, and you were really forthcoming, the more forthcoming you are, the more chance there will be for you to get on with your life.

Joran van der Sloot: One day, I will explain exactly what happened, but, right now, I don’t feel ready to do that.

Reporter: Right. (phone rings) can you just explain to me any other thoughts? What about her… what was she like with you that night in a romantic way, I mean, how can you describe what she was like as a girl

It is plain as day that the reporter asked him if he would EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE WHAT REALLY HAPPENED, not explain to investigators. That is the question he responded to.

Maggie on
June 6th, 2007 6:27 pm

Last time I looked investigators are listed under being people also.. geez.. talk about parsing words. People is a broad subject. The only person to blame for all that stupidity is Joran. In that interview he also said, he told the truth, Beth knows the truth because she read their statements. Then he says he hopes the truth comes out and goes on to do 5 or more interviews changing his statements again. So how would Beth know the truth? He also says he felt bad he went out without his father knowing it the night Natalee disappeared, yet the next night claims he again went out without his father knowing it. He felt sooooo bad… Everytime he opens his mouth he contradicts himself.

As for powdered alcoholic drinks for underage kids.. I don’t know of any powdered alcoholic drinks for underage kids in the US. Sad indeed. Most adult alcoholics begin drinking as young teens.

WOW, robert, why don’t you tell us how you really feel. You started the attacks with the comments in #6. You’re arrogant enough to pass judgement on who is going to heaven and who is not? What is this thing you say about spewing hate?-and then you end with love to all!? I’m not the one with all the hate. Although I do hate that poor Natalee Holloway was murderered in aruba, and nobody with authority, in aruba, has a conscience when it pertains to Natalle or her family or even her country. Her country being The United State of America. I’m very proud to be an American, and I’m proud to be a citizen of the State of Alabama.

driving miss daisy on
June 6th, 2007 8:30 pm

Robert, I understand it. We feel the same way about our country when we see her bashed continuously. Drugs are really bad in our country.

We have some of the same problems as the NL has. I hope everyone who cares will try to build a better society for all of us. We are all in a little boat paddling toward the sunset, and we should realize the Dutch have been our allies for a long time, as well, and we need to continue that relationship with both countries working toward making them each better.

I find sorry articles each and everyday about my own country. I hear my countrymen spout the most evil and vile things about the USA.

Kat_Gram on
June 6th, 2007 9:07 pm

Here in Canada, a kiddo can be served wine in a dining room at about 12 years of age. If they are with the parents. It has always been like that. A cultural thing.
..

joe bear on
June 6th, 2007 10:18 pm

I am not anti-Dutch,just anti rapist and drugger,like joran and friends

Joost on
June 6th, 2007 11:52 pm

Are you all really that stupid ?

I am very happy to read so much hate towards the great country The Netherlands. Really, they must have done a lot of wrong in the U S of A. So, please all of you, stay out of the Netherlands and its colonnies. One person who dissapeared is enough, right ?

As you can read very well in the Bible : God kissed the earth only once, and named the place The Netherlands !!

Robert on
June 7th, 2007 1:06 am

# sparrow | June 6, 2007, 7:01 pm

I’m not so arrogant to go stand in Gods shoes (if He has them…). I don’t decide any of that stuff. Read what I wrote: “… My guess is that …” That is a guess, not a decision.
But apparently I hurt you with saying that. I’m sorry! I’m not to judge if you are to go to heaven. But if I would….. You’ld be welcome as far as I’m concerned…

_________________

SM: Robert – some are saying Joran is going to be on Jensen tomorrow night (klaasend)

Robert on
June 7th, 2007 1:16 am

And as far as the powdered alcohol is concerned. If the story is true it must be a maze in the lawbook. I think in that case the government will soon sharpen the existing laws, so it wont be in their very long.

Hi Klaas, still awake? Forgot to thank you for the support in #15.

About the Jensenshow. Great for letting me know. I was keeping track of that show for that; I definitly am going to see it and maybe translate some.

Have a good night.

________________

SM: Thanks Robert! Will be interresting how Jensen handles the show. Wonder if Jensen saw that Panorama article of Joran’s? (klaasend)

minnesota dad on
June 7th, 2007 1:36 am

Wow, if we don’t have the AHATA shills coming here and spinning, we have the Dutch shills.

Robert and others on the Dutch PR rampage once again defending “Dutch Law”….please explain the following or shut up:

Why did the Aruban Law Enforcement folks arrest two black guys for the disappearance and murder of Natalee Holloway? Why were these two black guys “perp walked” from their homes with media receiving front row tickets? Why are these two black guys still suspects today…despite Beth Twitty finding evidence that the ALE was unwilling to find that totally vindicates these guys?

Now….once you have answered that question…please answer these…Why was the Dutch son of a justice department VIP quietly brought into the police station rather than “perp walked” on global TV? Why was the justice department VIP, Paulus Van Der Sloot given preferential treatment that the two black guys DID NOT receive with regard to searches, court procedures, and treatment by ALE and justice??? Why, despite the court finding as fact that there was MORE than enough evidence to arrest Paulus Van Der Sloot and hold him as a suspect in the case…that Aruba and the Dutch will not touch Paulus.

ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS OR GO AWAY. Any heat the Netherlands or Aruba receives from posters here is way, way overdue based on the racism, cronyism, corruption, and..did I mention corruption on that happy predator island.

Though I do not speak for others, I am very tired and fed up with Aruban…and now Dutch shills…coming here and trying to divert from what has taken place.

Arrest Paulus and begin proceedings already Dutch Investigators.

MD

mayan_moons on
June 7th, 2007 1:37 am

The only stupid ones here are the ones who think this is going away or think we’re going away. This is a waiting game Aruba can’t win.

mayan_moons, I stand with you. We are not going away. aruba can’t win, and aruba knows we will stand-up and be heard. We are strong. Remember the saying-united we stand divided we fall. We are united in the cause for Natalee.

nishika on
June 7th, 2007 2:32 am

#32 Why do you expect Dutch people here to know the answers? If you’re so certain about who needs to be arrested why don’t you contact your own government? I’m quite sure they are very capable of putting pressure on Aruba AND the Netherlands. Maybe they can call out for a boycott, like so many of the posters here are calling for. As a matter of fact I think your government stays informed about the proceedings in this case.

I wouldn’t be surprised that in the end we’ll know for a fact whatever covering up has taken place. This investigation hasn’t come to an end yet. I’m still hoping that this case will be solved one day.

#33 Who wants you to go away? Did someone here stated they want you to go away? They just ask you to stop bashing The Netherlands!

The public and media in the Netherlands show a lot of interest in this case. Which can only help for this case to be solved. Please stop bashing the Netherlands, sure we have some problems in our country, like you have in yours but portraying the Netherlands as some kind of corrupt country where people are without morals really isn’t going to help this case to be solved.

mayan_moons on
June 7th, 2007 2:57 am

I really believe in that saying sparrow….nice to see you posting it. How’s those tourist numbers after the last 2 trade shows Aruba?

“As you can read very well in the Bible : God kissed the earth only once, and named the place The Netherlands !!”

Joost,

That wasn’t a kiss! It was a liquid burp

back into his mouth… after some really

bad take out.

—

Justice 4 Natalee, dude

(and ya don’t stop!)

Robert on
June 7th, 2007 7:43 am

# minnesota dad | June 7, 2007, 1:36 am

Hi MD,

Well.., don’t ask me. Ask the Aruban Law Enforcement and the Aruben Government. Aruba is an autonomous island and I guess in the end it’s still an Aruban investigation. I said it before: The Netherlands is a constitutional state. This whole case has to be dealt with in a lawfull way.
So please stop this unfounded Netherlands- and Dutchie-bashing and stick to what you as well see as the maintopic: the investigation into the dissappearence (and probably raping and killing) of Natalee Holloway.
GET TO YOUR SENSES, PLEASE.

# nishika | June 7, 2007, 2:32 am
I agree!

Robert on
June 7th, 2007 8:38 am

I saw this show on German television the other week. It was about the Nether-Rhine (the lower part of the river-Rhine, partly in Germany, partly in The Netherlands). One man in that show hit the nail on the head. He said something like: We Germans are more bound to our ground, to our land and we are a more “closed” people. The Dutch have a closer relation to the sea. And they have traded all across the world. For centuries. Beginning at the end of the middle ages. (And shipping and trading across the rivers may I add, started even long before the middle ages!) And therefore they are more OPEN he said; open to other people and other cultures. They are more OPEN MINDED. Well… That’s not a crime is it?

minnesota dad on
June 7th, 2007 9:58 am

Robert and Nishika,

The investigation was handed over to the KLPD – Dutch Investigation team because of all of the covering up in Aruba of the crimes committed by a Dutch justice official, Paulus Van Der Sloot and his Dutch son, Joran Van Der Sloot.

Today, Joran Van Der Sloot is hiding in your country….released in a underhanded ruling by a judge who was buddies with his father…..further, he was released the day Katrina destroyed New Orleans…the perfect cover for getting him out of jail, and on the first flight out to the Netherlands.

In addition, we have the Dutch Croupier, Guido Wever, hiding in the Netherlands and actually hiring the MOST expensive defense attorney in all of Europe to protect him.

We have Dutch Geoffrey Van Croimvert hiding out in the Netherlands.

Dutch Koen Goettenboes is rumored to be in Atlanta, but no one really knows where he is. What we do know is that he too has fled predator island.

Though I appreciate your desire to see this case come to a conclusion (so have PVDS, Odubar, Croes,etc….in words only!), the Dutch Investigation into this case is proceeding, the Netherlands in allowing these predators to walk their land are tied to this crime now too. One can only hope that the Dutch Investigators will fully expose the corruption and cover-up in Aruba….or, will they just play along with this travesty?

Thus if the Netherlands gets bashed, it is because they have played along with this crime and cover-up.

md

Joe on
June 7th, 2007 10:25 am

The Netherlands are the new Soddom and Gamora!
They are poisoning the minds of people all around the world!
They have weapons of mass intoxication! There is a link to Al Qaeda because the prime minister of Holland doesn’t have a beard. Joran van der Sloot is actually a member of the Taliban! The US has to act now! We have to attack the Netherlands now! (it all doesn’t make any sense but it will keep America’s thirst for blood going and it’s good for the US military complex).

The Netherlands bashing on this site is pathetic.

Robert on
June 7th, 2007 10:32 am

# minnesota dad | June 7, 2007, 9:58 am
Well I’m not sure but I think the case was not handed over in the judicial sense; my guess is that it still is an ARUBAN case despite the (dutch) KLPD being called in.

minnesota dad on
June 7th, 2007 11:03 am

Great Robert….

So we have Dutch citizens committing crimes in Aruba. Their Dutch friends in Aruba cover for them. The Dutch predators escape the island and now live in the Netherlands.

Yet are we now hearing from you that the Netherlands really can’t do anything…this is an Aruba problem???

Then why the heck is the KLPD even assisting on this case?

This does not pass the smell test for the Netherlands now to wash their hands and say that we were “just kidding around” when we sent our folks to Aruba…..there is nothing we can do anyways.

Based on your comments, the Netherlands are complicit in these crimes.

Who do you think you are…doubting my genuine desire to have this case solved?!!

Robert on
June 7th, 2007 11:23 am

The Aruban judicial system has the last word in this I guess. And if there is an farce trial in the end, than the Aruban government has to change things. And if the Aruban government doesn’t respond adequate and turns out to still be corrupt, the Island deserves a boycot I think. And the current boycot is in my opinion an adequat instrument to keep the Aruban government (and people) aware that things have to be done properly on Aruba. No corruption! And JFN!

nishika on
June 7th, 2007 11:30 am

# MD couldn’t resist… yes you’re absolutely right. The Dutch hold a long history of corruption. It’s very, very, very corrupt. Among the most corrupt countries in the world. We don’t have any morals, we drug our children, we kill the sick and unwanted and we only have a few people in prison (compared to the US) not because we don’t have criminals but because we let them walk. We have the highest murder rates in the world and we are proud of it too! Get your facts straight please! Educate yourself, travel the world (if you’re not too afraid to do so) and find out why there are so many anti-american sentiments. It’s because of people like you!

nishika on
June 7th, 2007 11:41 am

Robert good luck on this forum. I hope you have the strenght to stay, despite all the insults you encounter.

As for me, I don’t like to be around so much negativity.

Keep up the good work!

Joe on
June 7th, 2007 11:51 am

#nishika

Not only that, the Netherlands is the home of the anti-christ! The devil actually lives there! It is written so in the bible! Take any psalm in the bible and I’m sure you can find a clue about the wickedness of the Netherlands.
I mean, god created the world but we Dutch had to make our own country. That’s proof enough that the country is devilish!

Joe on
June 7th, 2007 11:55 am

And futhermore, any evilness in the States is the fault of the Netherlands because after all they founded New Amsterdam way back in the 17th century or so. And we all know (except for Americans that can’t even find their own country on the map) that that became New York later! So there you have it!

I can’t stand seeing this arrogant creep Joran lie all the time. I feel sorry for Natalee and her family and friends. And I’m slowly getting more aware that Aruba might be the corrupt island the posters tell it is. (And I’m just curious about this case…)

But the people that bash our country are just ignorant… And I’m not afraid of that; intelligence beats ignorance!

For whatever significance it might hold, my first trip overseas was to the then-Soviet Union … and the first stop on the way was in Amsterdam. (It was a KLM flight.)

So I guess you could say my first step abroad was in the Netherlands. Needless to say, I exempt that country from any responsibility in forming the man that I have become.

I have only fragmentary memories of a brief bus trip around Amsterdam, but there were some nice canals, we had a view of the Anne Frank house, and (from what I remember) even the red-light district seemed orderly.

Let’s work together.

mayan_moons on
June 7th, 2007 2:07 pm

If the Dutch Investigator’s have no power to do anything then WHY were they called in to investigate?

mayan_moons on
June 7th, 2007 2:10 pm

If it wasn’t handed over to the Dutch Investigator’s in a judicial sense then what was the point/reasons for going to Aruba?

mayan_moons on
June 7th, 2007 2:18 pm

Remember all that talk about how the Dutch Investigor’s were to have seperate office’s and announced in a big way that the investigator’s would be armed with guns? Tell me…..DOES THAT NOT SUGGEST THEY ARE IN CHARGE HERE??

mayan_moons on
June 7th, 2007 2:34 pm

Robert……if you think this case was not handed over in a judicial sense…..then in what sense do you think it was handed over?

Robert on
June 7th, 2007 2:41 pm

Thanks Carpe & Richard!

Forgot to say that this message: Robert | June 7, 2007, 12:10 pm was a respons to this message: nishika | June 7, 2007, 11:41 am

Robert on
June 7th, 2007 4:24 pm

mayan_moons | June 7, 2007, 2:34 pm

The case was not handed over, the KLPD and Forensic Institute were called in I think.

buckeye on
June 7th, 2007 6:01 pm

Robert and nishika

I value input and appreciate both of you. There are plenty of Americans (and Dutch), posting at some hate sites, that are not worthy of either country. I am sure, wherever you live, both of you would work to make the world a better place.
I think it is frustrating to recognize corruption and not really know who’s in charge. We are used to protesting and value the voice of even a minority opinion. It is difficult to work for justice when one doesn’t know who to petition or how the game, in a distant land, is played.
It is my hope, that this situation is also frustrating for the Dutch that are involved with Natalee’s case and they are using all means available to identify and resolve the issues in this case. The people of Aruba seem powerless, either by will or by indoctrination, to even identify this injustice much less demand an accounting.
We are depending on the Dutch.

mayan_moons on
June 7th, 2007 6:07 pm

Called in to do what? Have a $hits & giggles with O’Goober and Rudy leprecaun??

mayan_moons on
June 7th, 2007 6:13 pm

Its to bad for Aruba if thats true, not so great for any country that has to subsidize the economy of Aruba either.

minnesota dad on
June 7th, 2007 11:03 pm

#46 – Nashika….

I do travel the world….in fact, last year I even visited Efteling with my family. Great theme park…very impressive and I especially liked the Fata Morgana. Didn’t like the roller coaster all that much…too jerky, hurt my back. I have been to your country four times.

I have been virtually everywhere in Europe. I have hiked the Scottish highlands, the Swiss Alps, and even toured wine country in France (not only the famed Bordeaux region…but also the Alsace region which has great wines – in fact, Colmar, France is one of my favorite and most charming towns in Europe…I recommend you visit it to take in their culture and architecture).

For extra culture, I have taken in the Arctic Circle in Northern Russia (burrrrr…..40 below zero at night!), Kazakhstan, and Moscow. I have been to just about every province in Canada…almost every island in the Caribbean (from Trin/Tobago, to Barbados, to Jamaica, to Grand Cayman, to the Bahamas…). I have seen just about every major coastal city in Mexico (from Cabo to Cancun – however I recommend Puerto Vallarta hands down for a romantic laid back vacation).

Yes, I have not visited South America, Africa, Australia, or Southern Asia…and for some reason do not have much interest in visiting the Middle East at this time.

This year, I will be taking a group of forty kids to Europe to study European culture. You see, it is disappointing to me to hear Europeans like yourself stereotype Americans as shallow and unworldly. To state that the whole world “hates” America right now because perhaps we have some principles that are different.

You may or may not be old enough to remember 1980-1985. At that time, the world hated America. The world hated Ronald Reagan. He was standing up against the USSR, and Europe was nervous. People thought he was a shallow cowboy. People thought he was stupid and reckless. Today, people admire the man for he, and his principles changed the world for the good. You may not like America or perceive what America is doing today is wrong….but the real judgement needs to take place twenty years from now. Europe made the mistake with Ronald Reagan and his vision twenty five years ago…

Do not think that we, as Americans, enjoy cleaning up Kosovo because the Europeans wouldn’t even stand up in their own backyard to what was morally right. Do not think that we, as Americans enjoy having our troops sitting in Korea keeping people free….or in Germany providing a buffer for the rest of Europe from past Eastern aggression. Don’t think we actually enjoy having our troops in the Middle East dealing with a radical Islam that needs to be eradicated for the safety of Europe (does the name Theo Van Gogh ring a bell for you?). Do not think that we are going to enjoy sending troops into Darfur because every other country in the world refused to stand up for what was morally right.

I will get off of my soapbox now. I appreciate that you want the Natalee Holloway case solved. I have been here from June 3, 2005 following this case and all of the obvious blunders and cover-ups that have occured. My sarcasm regarding this case which started in post 4 is the result of Dutch citizens who were both the predators and the justice officials in Aruba covered up for each other. Now most have left Aruba to hide out in the Netherlands leaving Aruba to suffer a long, painful financial death due to the lack of interest in putting Paulus Van der Sloot and the predators behind bars.

This case was solved two years ago. We are fed up with the BS. That is not being rude….it is calling it what it is.

md

Joe on
June 8th, 2007 3:47 am

MD: Ronald Reagan was a dumb ass who played Russian roulette. It might as well could have gone horribly wrong. RR is NOT admired in Europe perhaps maybe in Poland but they also admire the pope there and we all know what he stands for.

The “vision” of RR of which you speak, it the vision of neo-Liberalism coupled with neo-conservatism. The vision of Adam Smith and his ‘invisible’ hands. Well, it puts corperate earnings and share holder values first and people (not even) second. And don’t call me a commy because I believe in free market but not the way it is implemented now, defending Western interest.

Regarding Kosovo, what Milosevic did there was horribily worng as well and he did it to hold on to power, not for the love of Serbia. What NATO did afterwards was equally horrible because NATO not only bombed goverment buildings but also schools, hospitals, markets and trains.
And I can know because I’m a Dutch living in Serbia. I don not defend the Serbs nationalists but one thing is true what they say and that is that NATO DID these horrible things. I’ve seen the wreckage. It’s something that people don’t know about because it was kept out of the mainstream news. The whole bombing of Kosovo and Serbia by the way was a good distraction for Bill Clinton who was caught with his pants down doing Monica Lewinsky.

Regarding America defending Europe from radical Islam: it was America’s (and Europe’s) role in the Middle East in the first place that caused radical Islam. The US overthrew a democratic goverment in Iran as far back as 1953 because Iran wanted to nationalize their oilindustry. Saddam Hussein was put in power by the CIA and got military support from the US in his war with Iran (the whole world gave Saddam everything he wanted by the way). Then there is Iran-gate.
The Iraq war of 1991 wasn’t about the love for the Quwaity people, it was for the oil. Just like this Iraq war.
The result of both wars is over a million dead. The food for oil program by the UN and the no fly-zone policy resulted in 500,000 children dead of malnutrition and no access to medication. The use of uranium ‘depleted’ muntition lead to death and disformaties in children.
The use of inunculation for American troops against chemical weapons lead to deaths and many sick American service men and women. The second Iraq war has up till now caused over 3,500 American dead and a whopping +600,000 Iraqi dead (source: the Lancet medical journal). The whole war was based on lies and deception and fabrication of evidende anyway.

I don’t hate America or Americans. I think the country has done a lot of good. But don’t take it for granted. America (and Europe and the West in general as well) has done a lot of bad things as well. Whenever we wonder why people hate the West (or Europe or America in particular) we should wonder why that is. Could it be that we are actually to blame?????

And as horrible as the Natalee case is, we should worry more about wars and they way governments are taking away civil liberties. About the way politicians lie to the people and the way they are in bed with big business that make profit on wars and sending people to their deaths.
But people seem to worry more about who the next (American) idol is going to be than on things that really matter.

Have a good day.

——–

SM . Um, Europe admires Jimmy Carter … nuff said.

Do not judge what TV programming is as to what Americans think, believe or find important. That is just another mis-step in categorizing people as something they are not. Something that people who do not live in the US do all the time.

If the US held the standards they you claim, all of Europe would be speaking German these days.

R

minnesota dad on
June 8th, 2007 9:23 am

Joe,

Thanks for your comments….but,

It is very simple….and I know this will make you cringe; the US way of life is the most admired in the world. Were you to drop all of the borders in the world and ask folks which country they would like to live in if they couldn’t live in theirs….it would overwhelmingly be the US.

War is a dirty, ugly game. No one likes it or enjoys it – not even our politicians or military leaders. War sometimes is necessary.

US government world policy blunders??? Sure, we’ve had ‘em….and we will continue to have them as the only superpower currently in the world. The reality is, when you in Europe have a major problem…we have always showed up to bail you out. Some of our policies were right for the times and had to be changed over time as they didn’t work out. No one has a crystal ball.

France has already turned into a rioting mess, Sweden will be next, Germany is not too far behind….and of course London, England may already be lost. Again, just the mention of Theo van Gogh and you in the Netherlands understand what I am talking about. A day will come when Europe – because of arrogance and because of not investing in their own military security – will find itself in deep, deep trouble. Who do you think they are going to call to help when war is declared from within their borders? Russia, China? ‘Nuff said.

Time for Europeans like yourself to understand the big picture. For some reason many Europeans don’t get it. It is like you would rather ignore the problems and ‘talk’ (see how successful that was with Iran???). Some people in this world are evil…and have no interest in talking things out. I don’t like the big picture. My friends in Europe understand and agree….but they state that they are so close to it that that future makes them very, very nervous.

Boy, I wrote a big reply, made the sum (what is the sum of 1 plus 1), clicked submit comment and then it said I failed the challenge. I mean, the sum of 1 plus 1 is 2 right?

Anyway, the reply was something like “not everybody in the world wants to live in the US, most actually don’t” and “the US is like the Roman empire”, “America imposes Pax Amercicana on the world but would not accept it if someone else would do the same to them” and “we are gratefull for America and it’s role in WWII but Wallstreet also funded for a big part the Nazis, G.W. Bush’s grandpa funneled off money stolen by the nazis to the US, IBM sold the nazis office machines so they could count how many peopel they had killed, FDR realized that WWII was a good opportunity for the US to make it’s final breakthrough as a worldpower”.
(also in Europe a lot of people supported the nazis).
Etc, etc.

Joe has all the conspiracy talking points down too well to have a decent conversation. I suppose 9-11 was a Jewish-American conspiracy too.

md

Joe on
June 9th, 2007 1:37 am

#md

You’re the one that can’t have a decent conversation and I beat you on facts so that’s why you resort to calling me a conspiracy theorist.
You are blinded by your nationalism my friend. I guess you one of those people that say “my country, right or wrong”.

I’m outa of here. No point in talking to ignorant people that don’t think for themselves.