So Apple comes out with a phone. In order to build a phone, you have to go out and buy parts which include wireless chips. So who should pay the FRAND? The companies that make the chips or the companies that put the chips together to make a phone. It seems unfair that companies like Motorola who contributed to world wireless standards get to double dip. How is it possible that I can buy a feature phone for $20 where I live? This FRAND cost must be very small.

AMEN!
I think the German court simply don't understand technology.

This is exactly what Samsung have done in Australia. They sued Apple for using their patent in a Qualcomm chip. Qualcomm have already payed the license, Samsung can't get the money several times for the same chip.

And I still don't understand what GPRS have with 3G to do, since its a 2G technology with max speed of 128Kb. A simple software update could remove GPRS support in the devices.

Why? It "still" looks like a decent strategy... because even the "suits" didn't expect the iPhone to do as well as it did... even SJ was shocked.

So... why pay up front when everybody and his dog thought Apple was going to fail anyway.... and even the true believers such as SJ and Friends, were floored at the iPhone's success.

With 100 BILLION in the bank by the end of this quarter, whats even 100 Million... if it even comes to that. I'm to busy too do the math, but I bet Apple makes that only in interest in a very short period of time.

Too bad you're so full of hate, that you can't reason well. You'd never make a good manager or officer, let alone a techblog poster.

Money seems to trump what is right or wrong in your world. Typing "billion" in caps? That's a tell-tale sign.

Seems like to be in the anti-Apple crowd you need to have absolutely no appreciation of nuance whatsoever. Apple's having a notification screen that drops down from the top invalidates any claims against Google's systematic copying of every aspect of iOS over a period of many years. Apple being involved in a licensing dispute over a standard invalidates their case against the copyists. Etc. These guys would call you a hypocrite for opposing a murder because you stole some grapes from the supermarket.

Seems like to be in the anti-Apple crowd you need to have absolutely no appreciation of nuance whatsoever. Apple's having a notification screen that drops down from the top invalidates any claims against Google's systematic copying of every aspect of iOS over a period of many years. Apple being involved in a licensing dispute over a standard invalidates their case against the copyists. Etc. These guys would call you a hypocrite for opposing a murder because you stole some grapes from the supermarket.

So, how long before they settle? It's just an amount of time before Apple reaches in its virtual sock drawer and settles up.

On another note, Apple needs to hurry up and deliver my retina display iPad 3.

Apple will appeal and win.

Was this not trial that Apple didn't even show up at?

Anybody here that knows of German law system? I live in a neighboring country and the first instance in court have 2 judges and 3 public appointment laymen. Thats why many here "loose" at first instance to have a real trial at the second instance. Second instance have 3 judges and 2 laymen.

Seems like to be in the anti-Apple crowd you need to have absolutely no appreciation of nuance whatsoever. Apple's having a notification screen that drops down from the top invalidates any claims against Google's systematic copying of every aspect of iOS over a period of many years. Apple being involved in a licensing dispute over a standard invalidates their case against the copyists. Etc. These guys would call you a hypocrite for opposing a murder because you stole some grapes from the supermarket.

Especially since the drop down menu was developed first on jail broken iPhones. Android had notifications. Apple had PUSH notifications. Big different. And jail broken iPhones was the first phone with drop down, push notification.

Apple hired the guy that wrote the program and implemented it on iPhone.

So technically Google was inspired to this system also. Not from Apple, but from an iOS app.

To many Fandroids in the world that have zero knowledge about IT. Almost zero of them use Linux on their home computer since Microsoft RulezZZZz. Another company that they belie innovated anything. Its scary how brainwashed people are who use Android/Windows are.

Almost all Mac users also use windows.
Almost non Windows users use mac.
Thats why Mac users are the only one that have a clue about what they talk about.

Almost all iOS users are prepared to buy an Android if its a better phone then iPhone.
Almost none of Android users would ever buy an iPhone. (huge surveys done on this. Fandroids are close minded)

These huge mega-corporations, like Apple, need to learn some hard lessons in morality.

Let us hope that the justice systems in various countries can convince Apple to stop stealing.

You need to troll better.

You need to mention Hitler, Osama bin Laden and other good stuff to be a good troll.

But, I will feed the troll: You know that Apple pays Qualcomm for their chips? Qualcomm pays Motorola a fee for this. Why should Apple pay this fee 2 times?

Just look at the phone/tablet/computer world.
How does it come that every single maker is imitating Apple? Its because Apple is a highly innovated company. Google/MSFT are not innovative. In fact: Google have not innovated a single thing. They bought Android. MSFT licensed MacOS when they made Windows1 (somehow the judge agreed with MSFT that the license could be applied to all version of Windows)

Apple pays for its stuff. The Nokia Vs Apple trial was not about the Apple "stole" Nokia patent. The trial was about how much a fair value the Nokia patent had.

Almost all iOS users are prepared to buy an Android if its a better phone then iPhone. . .

Really? Would you actually want a show of hands here?

There's some significant percentage of Apple owners who won't buy a Samsung TV now, no matter if it's the best choice for them otherwise, and an Apple branded TV isn't even an option. I don't personally think most iPhone users would swap over to Android if they offered a better phone and the OS was just as good (which it isn't yet but there's always room to hope)

I am not an expert on this, but I think there may be situations/places where, due to unavailability of 3G coverage, the user might be still happy to be connected, although even at degraded speed.

When there is no 3G connection, it goes down to 2.5G: EDGE.
I have never seen 2G, but I live an modern country.

GPRS is a fast 2G data transfer protocol. 128Kb. This is something that is completely uninteresting for an iPhone user. Apple should therefore simply paths iOS to remove GPRS. When people are in 2G only settings they would be able to call, use EDGE but not use GPRS.

There's some significant percentage of Apple owners who won't buy a Samsung TV now, no matter if it's the best choice for them otherwise, and an Apple branded TV isn't even an option. I don't personally think most iPhone users would swap over to Android if they offered a better phone and the OS was just as good (which it isn't yet but there's always room to hope)

Yes there are surveys.

Look at theregister.co.uk and search for the survey.

But what is the best phone is subjective. Thats why 90%+ iPhone users upgrade to new iPhones.

The hate that Android users have for Apple is just simply brainwashed Google nerds that believe anything that Google says.

Almost all Mac users also use windows.
Almost non Windows users use mac.
Thats why Mac users are the only one that have a clue about what they talk about.

Almost all drivers of standard transmissions also use an automatic.
Almost all non-standard transmission drivers use an automatic.
That is why drivers of standard transmission cars are the only one that have a clue about what they talk about.

There's some significant percentage of Apple owners who won't buy a Samsung TV now, no matter if it's the best choice for them otherwise, and an Apple branded TV isn't even an option.

When an Apple branded TV becomes an option, they will buy it, not knowing nor caring who made the guts, even if Samsung makes more profit from the hardware than Apple makes from the software and services.

Many of those who vow to never buy from Samsung carry a large number of expensive Samsung chips in their pocket every day, and never realize that they are enriching Samsung pretty much every time they choose Apple.

Money seems to trump what is right or wrong in your world. Typing "billion" in caps? That's a tell-tale sign.

You're stretching too far.

What is right and wrong with the world ALL revolves around money, and nobody can dispute that... and no, just because I typed billions in caps does not make me a fan of the 1%-ers raining havoc with our pursuit of happiness, which many would say is futile anyway.

I'm looking at this particular problem, as two equally sized business heavyweights, rumbling it out in the courts around the world where-ever they see a potential advantage. Manila anyone?

And correct me if I'm wrong here, but Apple has been the traditional... and in my mind still is... the underdog in everything related to tech for the last 30+ years. As someone above has mentioned, I also don't want to envision a world without Apple and it's thorough and complete dominance over the innovation side of tech.

No Apple II or Mac = no Windows GUI
No iPhone = no Android with touch
No iPad = not even ONE manufacturer would have even tried a tablet. All indicators pointed to "fail".

However... we would be awash with trashy computers and devices with styli, little buttons, netbook-style, command-line-CRAP! With probably not a mouse in sight I might add.

Apple finally got sick and tired of being ripped off, mugged, technically raped and left for dead... took too long IMHO.

"Zen" thinking however DID have a nice pay-out... so yes, in the case of Apple BILLIONS (in caps) is something I, as a 25+ year user and shareholder.... am quite proud of, and have no regrets or argument with their business decisions.

True Fanboy I am

Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member

When an Apple branded TV becomes an option, they will buy it, not knowing nor caring who made the guts, even if Samsung makes more profit from the guts than Apple makes from the silkscreened brand name.

Many of those who vow to never buy from Samsung carry a large number of expensive Samsung chips in their pocket every day, and never realize that they are enriching Samsung pretty much every time they choose Apple.

And just because ONE division is full of non-creative stealing ass+++s, does not immediately mean the entire conglomerate is full of them.

"N*gger" (your description for yourself) comes to mind. You certainly like tacky and nasty generalizations don't you? Your "wierdos" comment on the new Apple Store thread pegs you as a narrow-minded fool, and you yourself keep proving the point.

Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member

I'm curious to see how the interplay between the German court's decision here and the EU's investigation into Motorola's use of FRAND patents. If Moto takes steps to enforce their rights under the German court's order, will that provide evidence for the EU investigation? Seems like quite a mess to me.

Nope. That is the identity ascribed to me by certain posters. It is not, however, my description for myself or for anybody else.

I don't often respond to these misattributions. But the funny thing here is that the misatrtribution is in a bizarre context. Another poster said it is OK to make such statements because of the category of person that I belong to.

So, Motorola refuses to license a FRAND patent.. and they get an injunction? Un.. fucking... believable

Let's see what happens when Apple products are actually banned in Germany/Europe. The public uproar is going to be deafening

I look forward to Motorola and their 20K employees to be integrated into Google. It will be fun to see that anchor take down the ship

That is incorrect;

Apple basically wanted to settle with possible damages as part of the license due to past alleged violations since 2007; which can amount to rather large amount given the length of time and number of devices. They basically want to the license to retroactively apply to the previous period. Motorola is not obliged to settle on past damages in licensing the patent going forward under German corporate law, and refused to settle on Apple's terms. That's why they are getting an injunction today.

Didn't Apple try this before when it sued Microsoft for copying the "look" of its GUI? And guess who lost that one. So you're right. Apple isn't a newbie at all in litigation.

Re the historical reference. Apply won a small victory some time later but it was too late. I seem to recall MS had to do some changes such as no device icons on the desk top and a few I can't recall. Others here will no doubt have the details.

From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've owned them all.Long on AAPL so biased"Google doesn't sell you anything, Google just sells you!"

I just came across the easiest-to-understand explanation of all this over at TechCrunch and think it's well worth quoting:
"Basically, if a company is found to be using FRAND-style patented technology in its products, the court can only allow that company a FRAND defense if it’s made “an irrevocable, binding offer” to license the patents on FRAND terms and also post a bond for ongoing royalties, reports FOSS Patents.

Apple did make an offer, to license all of Motorola’s FRAND-pledged patents, but threw in a clause that drifts away from the idea of “irrevocable” and “binding.” The issue is that Apple wants to argue the validity of the patent in question, which would mean those royalty payments would fly out the window.

The court in Germany agreed with Motorola when it argued that the offer Apple made to license the patents was shy of what is needed to cover damages. That said, Motorola can license these patents to Apple moving forward, but Apple will have to cough up the dough for past infringement."

And just because ONE division is full of non-creative stealing ass+++s, does not immediately mean the entire conglomerate is full of them.

"N*gger" (your description for yourself) comes to mind. You certainly like tacky and nasty generalizations don't you? Your "wierdos" comment on the new Apple Store thread pegs you as a narrow-minded fool, and you yourself keep proving the point.