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Shenanigans!!!!

I call SHENANIGANS!!!!

He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent which will reach to himself. -- Thomas Paine (1737--1809), Dissertation on First Principles of Government, 1795

The article is a bit short on details, but condition yellow situational awareness will not always alert you to something like this, but will go a long way in ensuring that you at least have a feeling that something isn't quite right before something bad happens.

2. This is not a gun-grab. (I know the OP did not say it was. Others have in other threads. I am taking preemptive action.)

3. The details of the story as told by the victim have been put into question.

If anyone wants more detail, please search for those threads. I'm going to move on.

I tried a lot of search terms and came up empty, even though I knew there was a good chance I was missing it. You can see how finding specific search terms for this thread would be tough...

I just wanted to make sure people were aware. This is the very first story like this I've ever heard, and I read a lot. Unfortunately I found this on an anti's website I was laughing at.

If someone was so inclined as to approach me in a non threatening manner and at the last second whip out a pistol and stick it in my ear while demanding I hand over mine I would consider doing so! Fortunately most people just aren't that brazen. And I don't make a habit of visiting places where people are that brazen.

3. The details of the story as told by the victim have been put into question.

What details have been put into question? I have spoken with the man who was robbed.

He is a member of our organization. I would be happy answer any specific questions which you may have.

Nik Clark
Chairman/President - Wisconsin Carry, Inc.

www.wisconsincarry.org Wisconsin Carry, Inc. is not affiliated with opencarry.org or these web forums. Questions about discussion forum policy or forum moderation should be directed to the owners of opencarry.org not Wisconsin Carry, Inc.

I am just tiring of folks posting and reposting this story as though it were some watershed event and not just an armed robbery.

It is not a watershed event.

Brazen criminals in Milwaukee's inner-city robbed a man. Happens every day here.

Wisconsin law unfortunately shackles law-abiding citizens with NO choice but to carry their side-arm openly. Conceal carry is banned.

If anyone ever thought open-carry was the only and best way to protect yourself in ALL circumstances, they were mistaken.

People ought to be able to carry in the manner of their choosing.

If Wisconsin didn't deprive its residents of the right to carry in the manner of their choosing, I'm confident this individual would have chosen to have been carrying concealed IN THIS SITUATION.

This unique situation is not a failure of open-carry but a failure of Wisconsin government to allow citizens the choice to adequately protect themselves in the manner appropriate for a variety of situations.

Better yet, have the person who is a member of your organization join this one and answer the questions himself.

He's not interested in playing keyboard quarterback. He didn't want to speak to the news, he didn't want to come on OCDO and have to defend himself. He's just a guy who has been assaulted before by the emboldened thug criminals in Milwaukee who Governor Jim Doyle and the Wisconsin legislature has provided with a layer of confidence that their victims will be unarmed by failing to remove legislation that would allow the law-abiding the human right to defend themselves.

www.wisconsincarry.org Wisconsin Carry, Inc. is not affiliated with opencarry.org or these web forums. Questions about discussion forum policy or forum moderation should be directed to the owners of opencarry.org not Wisconsin Carry, Inc.

Well, he, not you, should answer any questions raised--or no one should. (Of course, everyone is free to post answers.) The questions are out there for anyone who cares to search for the threads that they are in.

What I think is wrong is that some people point to this and say:"See! That guy was robbed BECAUSE he was carrying a gun!"

There simply is no evidence of that. On the sidebar on the webpage with the news video are no less than 8 other armed robbery reports. I don't see anything different in this armed robbery than any of the others.

Well clearly he was robbed FOR his gun. I mean thats what the robber took.

But it could have just as easily been for his watch or for the rims on his car (had he been driving) happens all the time in MKE.

www.wisconsincarry.org Wisconsin Carry, Inc. is not affiliated with opencarry.org or these web forums. Questions about discussion forum policy or forum moderation should be directed to the owners of opencarry.org not Wisconsin Carry, Inc.

The whole problem here is that we are speculating because the person who claims to have had his gun taken won't come here and talk to us about what happened.

I hate to say this, but that raises questions.

The person involved knows that this site exists. Many people he knows post on it. He is making a conscious choice not to participate. So, the questions remain unanswered and speculation runs wild.

The only fact that can be verified is that a man reported to the police that he had a gun taken at gunpoint. Personally, I will give no credit to any of the details of this account until and unless I have a chance to discuss it with the person who claims to have been robbed. Only then can I decide how much credibility the man has.

Someone who posted in this thread located me through PM with a link to this thread and asked that I respond.

I thought I could answer a couple of questions having spoken to the guy and knowing of him before the incident, right after it happened, and in the aftermath of the news media. I also know through open-records requests of the Milwaukee Police Department how the news media even found out about it. I consider myself a pretty analytical guy, and I'm confident in the circumstances surrounding this situation, but hey... No one can ever be 100% sure of anything. I will say that I've learned my lesson as far as allocating my time-resources to engaging in internet-debate, especially with those who tend to prescribe to conspiracy theories. There is nothing to gain by trying to persuade you. I guess you can just believe what makes you feel better.

Wisconsin Carry believes law-abiding people have the right to carry in the manner of their choosing. I prefer to open-carry whenever possible. If and when Wisconsin passes a conceal carry law (or repeals the conceal carry ban) I will continue to open-carry as much as possible because that is my preference. It will just be nice not to have to be paranoid about throwing a jacket on in the winter from the truck to the store and risking a conceal carry violation, but I will OC whenever possible. I digress.

Carry On

edited to add:

No offense, just an observation but judging from your comments in this thread, if he did come on here and tell his story, I have a feeling you would either just accuse him of lying, question his identity,or refuse to believe the answers he gave you. I mean I've talked to him at length and you don't believe me, why would you believe him? If you think the whole thing was staged you're going to change your mind just because he comes in and says it wasn't? yeah right... Carry On...

www.wisconsincarry.org Wisconsin Carry, Inc. is not affiliated with opencarry.org or these web forums. Questions about discussion forum policy or forum moderation should be directed to the owners of opencarry.org not Wisconsin Carry, Inc.

Thank you for providing comment to this. You seem pretty sharp and I'm glad we as OCer's have your representation in WI. I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said. In a state such as WI where concealed carry is illegally prohibited by its legislature, thugs have easy pickings when deciding who to rob.

I live in a high crime area of Raleigh, NC (it aint downtown Detroit mind you) and OC every single day. I wear a retention holster and keep a sharp eye out. But this same thing could happen to me or anyone else on this forum. I dare someone who OC's to say this could never happen to them.

I have searched and searched, and can find no other news stories describing someone who was openly carrying being robbed of their pistol. So this is obviously a very rare occurrence, but it IS plausible in every aspect.

But from what I can garner from the news stories and people's replies here I have drawn some basic conclusions.

This story seems to me like the guy who is specialist in hand combat. He makes it known and brags to people or even doesn't but people still want to "try" him.
If you know someone who is proficient in say Jujitsu or any of those type of hand2hand combat styles.

I also will make an assumption that there might have been some of that "punk ass white boy trying to make a statement, so we are gonna show him" attitude.

Yes, I am assuming the assailant was a minority and the OCing person was white.
That's right, I am assuming. Based on statistics, white males tend to legally carry firearms more so than any other race.
I am also assuming the BG was a minority as STATISTICALLY high crime areas are typically minority prevalent.

again, this is all assumptions on my part, and not to mention I am kind of biased myself. I grew up in a poor section of Baltimore with minority parents. Talk to me about not assuming after growing up like I did.

So.. it is normal now ...

~ I am a big Open Carry advocate, and do so as much as possible. I believe whole heartedly in the right to keep and bear arms, and in normalizing it. I do however realize and respect, that as it becomes more common place, and becomes more accepted and normal, you will have encounters that normal people have. People crash cars, and people will drop guns, and they may discharge. People lose expensive jewelry, and people will sometimes forget their guns in bathrooms or dressing rooms. People get robbed for wallets, jewelry (if they didn’t forget it at Macy’s), and thus, will at a point, get robbed for that nice looking firearm that the BG wants bad enough to risk his life for. These occurrences will be rare and uncommon, but they will happen. I don’t particularly doubt the story. I do think it is too bad, and I am glad the guy is ok. I happen to carry a Back up directly addressing my concern of firearm theft. I also would say, with conviction, ya better kill me before you try to take my gun at gunpoint... I will draw... I will fire.... I would expect to catch a round in the exchange.....I myself am no stranger to pain. This is the code that I as a pistolero must accept if I am to keep safe my arms without fail, or accept that my arm, once relinquished, may cause hardship and loss of life for my frailty or inability to retain it. I take the stance seriously, and accept the conviction as my personal code. My final thoughts, if someone is pointing a gun at me, then they very likely will shoot me, even if I give them what they want… – Alas, to each their own, and I understand many will carry a firearm, yet will relinquish it in the face of extreme adversity in hopes they will not suffer pain or death.– Normal people make individual choices right? --- Yes they do …. That’s normal.Bat.

Last edited by Batousaii; 09-03-2010 at 12:34 AM.
Reason: Spelling.

~ ENCLAVE vmc ~
The Enclave is looking for patriotic motorcycle riders in Washington State who support liberty and freedom for all. ~ Check us out!~* " To be swayed neither by the opponent nor by his sword is the essence of swordsmanship." - Miyamoto Musashi.

Why is it I don't see a single post from those who wanted to try to single me out on this very subject. Could it be that this is just a slap in the face and it has finally shut those folks up? (I expect a lashing now, so have some fun) I thought your OC proudly displayed was supposed to deter BG's from victimizing you...guess that's really not the case now is it and perhaps this ex-military LEO had this issue directly in his crosshairs all along.

Just goes to show that CCW is a good option and OC can actually make you a target.

I certainly hope this is enough of a duh moment for you OC hard-core folks, to the point that you'll think twice prior to each time you choose to OC. I have for some time, so I hope you will as well after seeing this.

OC and you are a target of opportunity that can give BG's a back-up-gun.

Why is it I don't see a single post from those who wanted to try to single me out on this very subject. Could it be that this is just a slap in the face and it has finally shut those folks up? (I expect a lashing now, so have some fun)

Just goes to show that CCW is a good option and OC can actually make you a target.

I certainly hope this is enough of a duh moment for you OC hard-core folks, to the point that you'll think twice prior to each time you choose to OC. I have for some time, so I hope you will as well after seeing this.

OC and you are a target of opportunity.

Live and you are a target of opportunity!! Armed, concealed, open, or unarmed!!!

If you do not test yourself every single day,
then it is just another wasted day.
--Semper Fi--

SNIP Why is it I don't see a single post from those who wanted to try to single me out on this very subject...

...Just goes to show that CCW is a good option and OC can actually make you a target.

I certainly hope this is enough of a duh moment for you OC hard-core folks, to the point that you'll think twice prior to each time you choose to OC. I have for some time, so I hope you will as well after seeing this.

OC and you are a target of opportunity that can give BG's a back-up-gun.

(laff) Thousands of guys and few girls OCing daily for four years for hundreds of thousands of hours, and one guy gets robbed of his gun, and suddenly OC makes you a target! (chuckle)

Well, enough sarcasm. Actually, I am almost insulted. The poster acts like we didn't consider the possibility of gun-grabs and robbery before we started OCing. So, he wants to make sure that we hear his carefully weighed judgement, and think twice before each OC. Ooooooooo. Think carefully everybody. Obviously only the poster could have given it enough thought. (laff)