One other from same place.....I forget who it was now, race car coming down front straight at IMS became airborne and flipped up and over the old "crosswalk/catwalk" that used to go up and over the track at the start line. The film of that is just awesome.

MagicRat

12-22-2004, 10:59 AM

http://espn.go.com/gen/s/2002/0903/1426778.html

Jose Slaughter

12-22-2004, 11:21 AM

How about the gas explosion at the fair ground during an ice show, is that sport?

able

12-22-2004, 12:04 PM

MR: contrair to what that article says, as Dutch native living in the NL at that moment I vividly remember the execution of one of the trainers, live on tv.
It was after that, that they decided to "filter" the images.

In the mentioned thread I posted the "Heysel Disaster" (Heizel Drama) in Bruxelles in Belgium, and there was also a riot in a Brazilian Football stadium where the (scaffold exrta) stands collapsed leaving several hundreds to die, this match was live on tv in Brazil.

I have eyewitnessed the riot in the Feyenoord Stadium In Rotterdam in NL, where in teh seventies Tottenham Hotspur (London) started fights with Dutch supporters, many wounded, several were thrown from the second "ring" down in to the "first ring" of stands.

It was one of the reasons that if "disaster" and "worst sporting moment" are used for a simple brawl at a basketball game, where (see above) it should be clear that at other games worse things happened even without the dead, my toes start to curl and I get upset with the revisionist mood making that goes on, seems like the "journalist" in question has even less standard for himself then he accuses other to lack.

Unfortunately this is not the only one writing like that, reason to suspect that the continuous drip of the drivel is "orchestrated" to achieve a goal.

Far more horrendous things have happend in sports arenas all over the world, the ones i mention are just of the top of my head.

ABADays

12-22-2004, 12:11 PM

Eddie Sachs crash and burn Indianapolis Motor Speedway.
Dave Macdonald died along with Sachs in that crash. That was my first race.

The Swede Savage crash was pretty gruesome. There have been some pretty spectacular crashes at the Speedway but no death. Tom Sneva's by the penthouse suites and Mario's test crash. Salt Walther's first turn accident was pretty horrible - legs hanging out of the nose cone.

The Munich Olympics was a very sad event in sports.

Some of the air show crashes have been pretty bad. I guess they wouldn't be considered sports though.

Grant

12-22-2004, 02:21 PM

Munich... had not thought of that. Terrorism and death give you perspective for the Palace brawl.

And soccer fans are crazy.

gilpdawg

12-22-2004, 04:42 PM

Worst racing crash I've seen, (not in person) was Greg Moore's at California. You knew he didn't survive right away.

efx

12-22-2004, 11:00 PM

Does anyone remember that horrible soccer incident in 1990 I think it was when fans stormed the field and about 10 people were crushed to death? I have to this day not seen anything worse in sports.

skyfire

12-22-2004, 11:12 PM

Ayrton Senna's fatal accident in F1 racing was a scary incident and a very sad day for motor sport.

Bball

12-22-2004, 11:23 PM

Zanardi's crash in Germany was rather horrific. I believe German TV actually cut away from the coverage of the race at that point.

Geezer... I'm curious about the crash you mentioned with the car going over an Indy walkbridge....
I don't recall that or even Indy having a walkbridge. Any more details?

-BBall

PacersandIU

12-23-2004, 03:20 AM

Anything with crazed(drunk) fans and high risk sports can turn into a disaster in the blick of an eye...

My number one scary moment in sports was probably Rudy T getting slammed in the face...which almost killed him.

ChicagoJ

12-23-2004, 11:15 AM

Does anyone remember that horrible soccer incident in 1990 I think it was when fans stormed the field and about 10 people were crushed to death? I have to this day not seen anything worse in sports.

Is that the one with the famous newspaper picture of people getting pushed into the chain-link fence?

able

12-23-2004, 11:24 AM

No, it is the article I refer to above and in another thread of the same subject; the Heysel Distaster.

People were pushed in a brickwork wall, the wall collapsed under the pressure;
39 died, hundreds were wounded I saw it live on tele, and you are wondering why I get upset when they call this little scirmage in Detroit the worst disaster in sports ever?

The fact alone that even the arbitrator calls it that means that he has expelled himself.

for those who still wander, it was 1985:

Monday, 29 May, 2000, 11:11 GMT 12:11 UK
The Heysel disaster
Heysel disaster
Heysel: a tragedy waiting to happen?
The Heysel disaster of 29 May, 1985, led to the deaths of 39 fans and a five-year blanket ban on English clubs in European football.

More than 60,000 supporters of Liverpool and Juventus had made their way into the ageing Heysel stadium in northwest Brussels, many having spent the day drinking before the European Cup final.

At around 7pm local time, about an hour before the scheduled kickoff, the trouble started.

Juventus fans
Fans from both sides were involved in clashes

Fans had been chanting, waving flags and letting off fireworks, but the atmosphere became more violent and a thin line of police was unable to prevent a contingent of Liverpool followers from stampeding towards rival fans.

A retaining wall separating the Liverpool followers from Juventus supporters in sector 'Z' collapsed under the pressure and many were crushed or trampled when panicking Juventus fans tried to escape.

Thirty-nine Italian and Belgian fans died and hundreds were injured.

English banned

The game eventually went ahead late, despite objections from both managers, and Juventus won the match 1-0 from a second half penalty.

Some Liverpool fans claimed that Juventus supporters precipitated the violence by hurling stones and other missiles.

Heysel was almost certainly going to happen because no one, anywhere, seemed capable of stopping the violence

Liverpool fan Gerald McKinley

Others have blamed poor organisation and lack of crowd control by the Belgian authorities, saying that there were insufficient police inside the stadium to prevent fans from clashing.

UEFA acted swiftly to ban all English clubs indefinitely from participating in any of the three European competitions in the wake of the tragedy.

This restriction was gradually lifted five years later.

The Heysel stadium itself has changed beyond recognition since the disaster.

The old venue, built in 1930, was demolished after the disaster and replaced by the all-seater Stade Roi Baudouin, which has never been used to stage club football.

'Runaway train'

No plaque commemorates the 1985 horror, and the only reminder of that time is a reconditioned gateway near the main entrance, the last remnant of the original stadium.

Gerald McKinley, a Liverpool fan who was at Heysel but not involved in the rioting, said: "Heysel was almost certainly going to happen because no one, anywhere, seemed capable of stopping the violence.

"There was trouble at almost every game, at home and abroad and not just involving English teams. It was like trying to stop a runaway train.

"It had to stop somehow and since Heysel, there have been far fewer incidents. But what a tragic loss of life."

ChicagoJ

12-23-2004, 11:38 AM

Perhaps I'm just being an airhead here, but none of these things we're discussing here involve participant-on-spectator violence.

Watching Gordon Smiley's head fly off his body in a turn three crash is devastating (and disgusting), and watching fans fight with fans is, of course, not a good thing. But the notion of players attacking fans is, whether they were 'provoked' or not is irrelevant, frightening at a much different, more fundamental level. And as we've discussed, many athletes in history have been provoked much, much more that our players were that night and were able to restrain themselves.

I still remember a guy that was about my age, and in high school he transferred from Center Grove to Indian Creek and was the star of thier basketball team. I still remember the verbal abuse he got from the Center Grove parents and students, during the Sectional game. And that was verbal abuse from former family friends, classmates, etc. It wasn't from some anonymous punk; it *was* personal. And this seventeen year-old kid didn't snap. So I don't think its too much to say that athletic participants SHOULD NEVER EVER initiate nor participate in an altercation with fans in the stands.

able

12-23-2004, 12:19 PM

Perhaps I'm just being an airhead here, but none of these things we're discussing here involve participant-on-spectator violence.

Watching Gordon Smiley's head fly off his body in a turn three crash is devastating (and disgusting), and watching fans fight with fans is, of course, not a good thing. But the notion of players attacking fans is, whether they were 'provoked' or not is irrelevant, frightening at a much different, more fundamental level. And as we've discussed, many athletes in history have been provoked much, much more that our players were that night and were able to restrain themselves.

I still remember a guy that was about my age, and in high school he transferred from Center Grove to Indian Creek and was the star of thier basketball team. I still remember the verbal abuse he got from the Center Grove parents and students, during the Sectional game. And that was verbal abuse from former family friends, classmates, etc. It wasn't from some anonymous punk; it *was* personal. And this seventeen year-old kid didn't snap. So I don't think its too much to say that athletic participants SHOULD NEVER EVER initiate nor participate in an altercation with fans in the stands.

That was the pass across goal, allow me to shove it in:

The rumble at Wrigley (Dodgers at Chicago, 2000)
Rowdy Cubs fans were showering the Dodgers' bullpen with beer and tried to steal catcher Chad Kreuter's cap in the ninth inning of a tight ballgame. Dodgers coaches John Shelby and Rick Dempsey joined Kreuter and a slew of other Dodgers, going into the stands down the right-field line to retaliate. The Dodgers got a close win, but nine days later, 16 players and three coaches were handed suspensions for their involvement in the melee.

Home ain't what it used to be (Astros at Milwaukee, 1999)
In the sixth inning of an Astros-Brewers game in Milwaukee, a 23-year-old fan ran onto the field and jumped Houston right fielder Bill Spiers, a former Brewer. As Spiers tried to shake him off, his teammates came to the rescue, led by Mike Hampton, who got in some nasty kicks. Spiers suffered whiplash and was bloodied and bruised. The fan was arrested and held on a $250,000 in bail on charges of battery and disorderly conduct.

"In all my years of baseball, I've never heard or seen anything like that," said Brewers interim manager Jim Lefebvre. "To be honest, it's almost horrifying. It was just a terrible, isolated incident."

Randy Myers marshals his martials (Astros at Chicago, 1995)
In the eighth inning of a wild contest between the Cubs and Astros at Wrigley, Chicago reliever Randy Myers surrendered a two-run, pinch-hit home run to James Mouton that gave Houston a 9-7 lead. As Mouton circled the bases, 27-year-old John Murray ran out of the stands and toward the mound.

"I felt the look in his eyes, that he wanted to hurt me," Myers said. "He reached for his pocket and I thought it could be for a knife or a gun, so I dropped him with a forearm."

Myers, it seems, was well-trained in the martial arts and pinned Murray to the ground until he was taken away. "I tried to defend myself and my teammates," said Myers. "When he was down on the ground, I kept holding his hands so he couldn't reach for his waistband or pocket. I kept thinking he might have a gun or a knife. Fortunately, nobody was hurt."

The reliever got big cheers from the Wrigley crowd when he exited after facing one more batter.

In January 1995, 5.75 million viewers of the BBC's Sportsnight programme watched one of the sport's biggest stars, Eric Cantona of Manchester United, violently attack a football supporter after being sent off against Crystal Palace. Initial reaction to the event sparked vehement criticism from all quarters of the British media. Subsequently, Cantona received a ban from the Football Association and faced civil action in the courts.

However, on his re-entry to the game in October 1995, Cantona was received with open arms by both the fans and an expectant media whose critical opinion of the player had turned full circle during his exile. This was mainly due to revelations of the racist abuse Cantona had allegedly received at the hands of the supporter he attacked. The incident provides an interesting case study with which to investigate the position of sports stars as role models, the perceived responsibility of television in the coverage of violent events and issues pertaining to the justification for violence.

Footie season in the UK starts in Oct, ends in March/April.
Though Cantona got 8 months these were calendar months, not playing months, in actual effect it came down to 15 games (13 in the 94/85 season and 2 in the 95/96 season.

(this was known when the suspension was handed down)

So now where are your examples of "long" suspensions ?

able

12-23-2004, 12:29 PM

few small additions:

did you notice that allegedly the throwing of stones and other crap by Juventus fans started the melee?
that most cases are in the USA, who according to the ruling and Stern have never seen anything worse then the Destroit melee?
That none of the suspension were even closely as long as the one handed down to Ron Artest?

able

12-23-2004, 12:40 PM

and some more "players v fans" from espn:

The melee at the Palace on Friday night was bad. Yet, when you consider all the possibilities, it was one of relatively few violent acts that have taken place between players and fans during major pro sports events.

Frank Francisco arrested after hitting two fans with thrown chair (Rangers at Oakland, 2004)
The Texas bench and bullpen cleared when fans were razzing the players in the bullpen and Francisco was arrested on a charge of aggravated battery after he threw a chair into the right-field box seats near the Rangers' bullpen. The chair hit a man in the head, then bounced and struck a woman on her left temple.

Tie Domi douses some fans, wrestles another while in penalty box (Maple Leafs at Philadelphia, 2001)
Domi, waiting out a penalty early in the third period, poured water over some taunting Philly fans. Then another fan tried to jump into the penalty box and slug Domi; he missed with the punch and fell into the box, where Domi wrestled him. "Hey, that's old-time hockey, it was perfect," said Domi. "Hey, he comes into my territory, that's what happens."

The fan was cited and Domi continued play later in the period.

The rumble at Wrigley (Dodgers at Chicago, 2000)
Rowdy Cubs fans were showering the Dodgers' bullpen with beer and tried to steal catcher Chad Kreuter's cap in the ninth inning of a tight ballgame. Dodgers coaches John Shelby and Rick Dempsey joined Kreuter and a slew of other Dodgers, going into the stands down the right-field line to retaliate. The Dodgers got a close win, but nine days later, 16 players and three coaches were handed suspensions for their involvement in the melee.

Home ain't what it used to be (Astros at Milwaukee, 1999)
In the sixth inning of an Astros-Brewers game in Milwaukee, a 23-year-old fan ran onto the field and jumped Houston right fielder Bill Spiers, a former Brewer. As Spiers tried to shake him off, his teammates came to the rescue, led by Mike Hampton, who got in some nasty kicks. Spiers suffered whiplash and was bloodied and bruised. The fan was arrested and held on a $250,000 in bail on charges of battery and disorderly conduct.

"In all my years of baseball, I've never heard or seen anything like that," said Brewers interim manager Jim Lefebvre. "To be honest, it's almost horrifying. It was just a terrible, isolated incident."

Randy Myers marshals his martials (Astros at Chicago, 1995)
In the eighth inning of a wild contest between the Cubs and Astros at Wrigley, Chicago reliever Randy Myers surrendered a two-run, pinch-hit home run to James Mouton that gave Houston a 9-7 lead. As Mouton circled the bases, 27-year-old John Murray ran out of the stands and toward the mound.

"I felt the look in his eyes, that he wanted to hurt me," Myers said. "He reached for his pocket and I thought it could be for a knife or a gun, so I dropped him with a forearm."

Myers, it seems, was well-trained in the martial arts and pinned Murray to the ground until he was taken away. "I tried to defend myself and my teammates," said Myers. "When he was down on the ground, I kept holding his hands so he couldn't reach for his waistband or pocket. I kept thinking he might have a gun or a knife. Fortunately, nobody was hurt."

The reliever got big cheers from the Wrigley crowd when he exited after facing one more batter.

Vernon Maxwell slugs Portland heckler (Houston Rockets at Portland, 1995)
With the Rockets on the way to a 120-82 loss, Maxwell lost his cool and plunged 12 rows deep to punch a fan who had been heckling him. "If I had been there, I'd have probably cold-cocked him, too," said Maxwell's lawyer. "You can't think of anything more vulgar, more fighting words, than what this guy said to Vernon." Maxwell got a 10-game suspension and $20,000 fine from the NBA.

Man U star Eric Cantona kicks fan with Nike spike (Manchester United at Crystal Palace, 1995)
Cantona, a superstar striker from France, charged into the stands and kicked a fan in the chest. According to a British newspaper, the Daily Record, he was wearing shoes with "inch-long aluminum studs." Cantona was charged in the attack and initially found guilty and sentenced to two weeks in jail.(note abel: later changed to 120 hours community service)

Miami DL Mark Caesar douses Florida State fans with ice water (Miami vs. FSU, 1991)
While the Hurricanes celebrated their 17-16 win on the field, Caesar was dragged off it by FSU police and charged with misdemeanor simple battery, becoming the first player to be arrested at FSU's Doak Campbell Stadium. His offense: hitting fans with ice water thrown over his shoulder during the first half. "The fans were being abusive so I retaliated and threw some ice back," the 6-foot-2-inch, 290-pound Caesar said. Miami coach Dennis Erickson told the Orlando Sentinel, "On the sidelines, the fans were pelting everybody with ice, oranges, all kinds of things were flying."

Albert Belle's hell: a perfect throw earns a suspension (1991)
Albert Belle, who disliked being called "Joey," was in the Cleveland Stadium outfield when Jeff Pillar yelled from the left-field stands, "Hey, Joey, keg party at my place after the game, c'mon over." In retrospect, it sounds like a friendly invitation. But at the time, it was a particularly nasty heckle, as Belle had spent much of the previous summer in an alcohol rehab program.

Belle retaliated by picking up a foul ball and throwing a perfect strike at Pillar's chest from about 15 feet away, leaving Pillar with a weltering souvenir.

This was one case when Belle had the clear support of the fans, who gave him a hearty round of applause for nailing Pillar. But Belle got a one-week suspension and a fine from the AL.

Charles Barkley spits on 8-year-old girl (76ers at New Jersey, 1991)
With 1:38 left in OT at the Meadowlands, the Sixers' Barkley, who said he was aiming at a heckler sitting court-level, spit on an 8-year-old girl. "He [the heckler] was walking toward me, and I spit at him," said Barkley. "I was tired, and I didn't have enough foam in my mouth. It went everywhere." Barkley, who appeared to be sincere in his apologies to the girl, was ejected, suspended for a game and fined $10,000.

Torre's take: "Dick Williams is an idiot" (Atlanta vs. San Diego, 1984)
Braves pitcher Pascual Perez hit Padres leadoff hitter Alan Wiggins on the first pitch to set off a beanball war that escalated into perhaps baseball's ugliest game ever: brawls between Atlanta and San Diego erupted in the second, fifth, eighth, and ninth innings after Padres manager Dick Williams told Padres' hurlers they could use Perez for target practice.

Late in the game, Atlanta fans got into the act. One slammed a mug of beer on Kurt Bevacqua's head, and Bevacqua climbed onto the top of the dugout in pursuit before police got in his way. Another fan was taken down by Atlanta's Chris Chambliss and Jerry Royster near the third-base line. Five fans in all were led away from the action in handcuffs.

"Dick Williams is an idiot," said Braves manager Joe Torre, who was ejected along with Williams and 12 others. "It was obvious he was the cause of the whole thing. Precipitating a thing like that was inexcusable. It was stupid of them, period, to take four shots at Perez. It was gutless. It stinks. It was Hitler-like action. I think he [Williams] should be suspended for the rest of the year."

He wasn't; Williams was suspended for 10 days and fined $10,000 -- and the Padres went on to reach the World Series.

Ilie Nastase flings ice cream cones at fans (Dutch Open, 1982)
Nasty's primary target was a linesman who made a ruling he disagreed with, but what the heck, the fans got in the way. Nastase registered his outrage by grabbing a vendor's load of ice cream cones and throwing at least some at fans, writes John McGran in "World's Greatest Sports Brawls." He then returned to the court, painted the linesman with the delicious treat, and played on.

Reggie Smith, in the stands at Candlestick (Dodgers at San Francisco, 1981)
Smith, a Dodgers outfielder, had been jeered for half of the game from behind the Dodgers' dugout at Candlestick Park. His stoic stance vis-à-vis the abuse snapped in the sixth, and he went charging into the stands to take on Michael Dooley, a 6-foot-4, 218-pound Giants fan later described by his wife as a "rather mellow guy." Smith got in one good shot, but then the crowd pounded him. Other Dodgers came to the rescue, and pounded the fans back.

Smith was ultimately ejected. Eight fans were charged with misdemeanors. Dooley went to the hospital after his brief visit to jail. And almost immediately, Mrs. Dooley talked about suing.

Bruins brawl with Rangers fans at Madison Square Garden (Boston at New York, 1979)
After the Bruins won a 4-3 contest, it looked like some player fisticuffs might take place, with Rangers goaltender John Davidson in the lead. What ended up happening was much uglier, with Bruins players and Rangers fans going at it. Fans started throwing things on the ice, and one of them punched Boston's Stan Jonathan, setting off a melee with Bruins charging into the stands.

"Terry O'Reilly, the Boston captain, went into the crowd," wrote Jim Naughton in the New York Times. "O'Reilly was surrounded by fans. Seeing that, the rest of the Bruins, except Gerry Cheevers, the goaltender, climbed over the boards."

Most reports, wrote Naughton, agreed that at the very least "John Kaptain was beaten over the head with his shoe, that a woman was slapped across the face and that several fans were punched." Four Rangers fans were arrested for their part in the melee.

Piersall's punch, kick and catch contest (Indians at New York, 1961)
In the first game of a doubleheader at Yankee Stadium, Cleveland's Jimmy Piersall was minding his own business in center field when two fans came out of the stands in the seventh inning and tried to attack him. Piersall immediately scored a knockdown punch on one. The other, mustering all his courage, ran away as quickly as possible. But Piersall took off after him, getting not-quite-close enough to land a rough kick on the kid. No problem. By then, Piersall's teammates, Johnny Temple and Walt Bond, had arrived to land a few solid blows.

Barely missing a beat, Piersall made a spectacular catch at the fence to rob Johnny Blanchard of a two-run homer. Dig this: Yankee fans gave Piersall a huge cheer as he left the field.

Babe the "big bum" challenges all (The Polo Grounds, 1922)
The Bambino was battling a slump in late May and tried to stretch a single into a double, was thrown out, and expressed his displeasure at the call by throwing dirt in the umpire's eye. The ump responded by tossing the Babe. Episode over? Not even close.

The New York fans booed and hissed as the Babe exited the field, pausing only to take a theatrical bow. Then, as Robert Creamer recounts in "Babe," a heckler behind the dugout shouted, "You god damned big bum, why don't you play ball?" Ruth immediately jumped onto the dugout roof and into the stands, chased the heckler until he was too far out of reach, then returned to the dugout roof.

And from there he shouted, "Come on down and fight! Anyone who wants to fight, come down on the field! Ah, you're all alike, you're all yellow!"

Ruth got a brief suspension and a $200 fine for the episode.

Ty Cobb bloodies "Otto Blotz" (Tigers at Yankees, 1912)
A couple of days worth of heckling by Yankees fans finally got to Cobb at the old Yankee home, Hilltop Park. Cobb vaulted into the stands behind the Tigers' bench and went right after a man identified, pseudonymously, as "Otto Blotz." The Peach pummeled Mr. Blotz, who couldn't fight back with his fists -- he only had one hand, and that hand had only two digits.

"Cobb's execution was rapid and effective," the New York Times reported the next day. "Ty used a change of pace and had nice control. Jabs bounded off the spectator's face like a golf ball from a rock."

Cobb was suspended, and probably for the first time in his career was backed by his teammates. They went on strike, vowing not to return until he was reinstated. After a team of replacement Tigers lost 24-2, Cobb told his teammates thanks, but no thanks. The "real" Tigers returned to the field, and Cobb was back a week later. No word on the ultimate fate of Blotz.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in all of those incidents the spectator came onto the playing field/ surface to initiate the confrontation.

Yes, I'm drawing a distinction between fans, in the spectator area, throwing items at players and a single lunatic, acting alone, or perhaps a small group of lunatics, charging onto the playing area in a threatening manner (and potentially carrying a knife or other weapon.)

indygeezer

12-23-2004, 01:10 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in all of those incidents the spectator came onto the playing field/ surface to initiate the confrontation.

Yes, I'm drawing a distinction between fans, in the spectator area, throwing items at players and a single lunatic, acting alone, or perhaps a small group of lunatics, charging onto the playing area in a threatening manner (and potentially carrying a knife or other weapon.)

How about the riot at the Minnesota vs. Ohio State basketball game. Potential #1 pick 7 footer Luke Witte of the Buckeyes was pummeled senseless and never really amounted to much as a player after that. I thaought of that brawl while watching the Nov 19 "incident".

indygeezer

12-23-2004, 01:13 PM

Zanardi's crash in Germany was rather horrific. I believe German TV actually cut away from the coverage of the race at that point.

Geezer... I'm curious about the crash you mentioned with the car going over an Indy walkbridge....
I don't recall that or even Indy having a walkbridge. Any more details?

-BBall

I really can't tell you much about it it was 40-50's era I think. I've seen video of it but that's about it. THat walkway may have been the place where the starter waived the flags before they moved him to the side.

able

12-23-2004, 01:18 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in all of those incidents the spectator came onto the playing field/ surface to initiate the confrontation.

Yes, I'm drawing a distinction between fans, in the spectator area, throwing items at players and a single lunatic, acting alone, or perhaps a small group of lunatics, charging onto the playing area in a threatening manner (and potentially carrying a knife or other weapon.)

Uuuuhh no. more specifically:

Frank Francisco arrested after hitting two fans with thrown chair (Rangers at Oakland, 2004)
The Texas bench and bullpen cleared when fans were razzing the players in the bullpen and Francisco was arrested on a charge of aggravated battery after he threw a chair into the right-field box seats near the Rangers' bullpen. The chair hit a man in the head, then bounced and struck a woman on her left temple.

and:

The rumble at Wrigley (Dodgers at Chicago, 2000)
Rowdy Cubs fans were showering the Dodgers' bullpen with beer and tried to steal catcher Chad Kreuter's cap in the ninth inning of a tight ballgame. Dodgers coaches John Shelby and Rick Dempsey joined Kreuter and a slew of other Dodgers, going into the stands down the right-field line to retaliate. The Dodgers got a close win, but nine days later, 16 players and three coaches were handed suspensions for their involvement in the melee.

and:

Vernon Maxwell slugs Portland heckler (Houston Rockets at Portland, 1995)
With the Rockets on the way to a 120-82 loss, Maxwell lost his cool and plunged 12 rows deep to punch a fan who had been heckling him. "If I had been there, I'd have probably cold-cocked him, too," said Maxwell's lawyer. "You can't think of anything more vulgar, more fighting words, than what this guy said to Vernon." Maxwell got a 10-game suspension and $20,000 fine from the NBA.

and:

Man U star Eric Cantona kicks fan with Nike spike (Manchester United at Crystal Palace, 1995)
Cantona, a superstar striker from France, charged into the stands and kicked a fan in the chest. According to a British newspaper, the Daily Record, he was wearing shoes with "inch-long aluminum studs." Cantona was charged in the attack and initially found guilty and sentenced to two weeks in jail.(note abel: later changed to 120 hours community service)

and:

Albert Belle's hell: a perfect throw earns a suspension (1991)
Albert Belle, who disliked being called "Joey," was in the Cleveland Stadium outfield when Jeff Pillar yelled from the left-field stands, "Hey, Joey, keg party at my place after the game, c'mon over." In retrospect, it sounds like a friendly invitation. But at the time, it was a particularly nasty heckle, as Belle had spent much of the previous summer in an alcohol rehab program.

Belle retaliated by picking up a foul ball and throwing a perfect strike at Pillar's chest from about 15 feet away, leaving Pillar with a weltering souvenir.

This was one case when Belle had the clear support of the fans, who gave him a hearty round of applause for nailing Pillar. But Belle got a one-week suspension and a fine from the AL.

and:

Charles Barkley spits on 8-year-old girl (76ers at New Jersey, 1991)
With 1:38 left in OT at the Meadowlands, the Sixers' Barkley, who said he was aiming at a heckler sitting court-level, spit on an 8-year-old girl. "He [the heckler] was walking toward me, and I spit at him," said Barkley. "I was tired, and I didn't have enough foam in my mouth. It went everywhere." Barkley, who appeared to be sincere in his apologies to the girl, was ejected, suspended for a game and fined $10,000.

and:

Reggie Smith, in the stands at Candlestick (Dodgers at San Francisco, 1981)
Smith, a Dodgers outfielder, had been jeered for half of the game from behind the Dodgers' dugout at Candlestick Park. His stoic stance vis-à-vis the abuse snapped in the sixth, and he went charging into the stands to take on Michael Dooley, a 6-foot-4, 218-pound Giants fan later described by his wife as a "rather mellow guy." Smith got in one good shot, but then the crowd pounded him. Other Dodgers came to the rescue, and pounded the fans back.

Smith was ultimately ejected. Eight fans were charged with misdemeanors. Dooley went to the hospital after his brief visit to jail. And almost immediately, Mrs. Dooley talked about suing.

and:

Bruins brawl with Rangers fans at Madison Square Garden (Boston at New York, 1979)
After the Bruins won a 4-3 contest, it looked like some player fisticuffs might take place, with Rangers goaltender John Davidson in the lead. What ended up happening was much uglier, with Bruins players and Rangers fans going at it. Fans started throwing things on the ice, and one of them punched Boston's Stan Jonathan, setting off a melee with Bruins charging into the stands.

"Terry O'Reilly, the Boston captain, went into the crowd," wrote Jim Naughton in the New York Times. "O'Reilly was surrounded by fans. Seeing that, the rest of the Bruins, except Gerry Cheevers, the goaltender, climbed over the boards."

Most reports, wrote Naughton, agreed that at the very least "John Kaptain was beaten over the head with his shoe, that a woman was slapped across the face and that several fans were punched." Four Rangers fans were arrested for their part in the melee.

and:

Babe the "big bum" challenges all (The Polo Grounds, 1922)
The Bambino was battling a slump in late May and tried to stretch a single into a double, was thrown out, and expressed his displeasure at the call by throwing dirt in the umpire's eye. The ump responded by tossing the Babe. Episode over? Not even close.

The New York fans booed and hissed as the Babe exited the field, pausing only to take a theatrical bow. Then, as Robert Creamer recounts in "Babe," a heckler behind the dugout shouted, "You god damned big bum, why don't you play ball?" Ruth immediately jumped onto the dugout roof and into the stands, chased the heckler until he was too far out of reach, then returned to the dugout roof.

And from there he shouted, "Come on down and fight! Anyone who wants to fight, come down on the field! Ah, you're all alike, you're all yellow!"

Ruth got a brief suspension and a $200 fine for the episode.

and:

Ty Cobb bloodies "Otto Blotz" (Tigers at Yankees, 1912)
A couple of days worth of heckling by Yankees fans finally got to Cobb at the old Yankee home, Hilltop Park. Cobb vaulted into the stands behind the Tigers' bench and went right after a man identified, pseudonymously, as "Otto Blotz." The Peach pummeled Mr. Blotz, who couldn't fight back with his fists -- he only had one hand, and that hand had only two digits.

"Cobb's execution was rapid and effective," the New York Times reported the next day. "Ty used a change of pace and had nice control. Jabs bounded off the spectator's face like a golf ball from a rock."

Cobb was suspended, and probably for the first time in his career was backed by his teammates. They went on strike, vowing not to return until he was reinstated. After a team of replacement Tigers lost 24-2, Cobb told his teammates thanks, but no thanks. The "real" Tigers returned to the field, and Cobb was back a week later. No word on the ultimate fate of Blotz.

and(finally?):

In January 1995, 5.75 million viewers of the BBC's Sportsnight programme watched one of the sport's biggest stars, Eric Cantona of Manchester United, violently attack a football supporter after being sent off against Crystal Palace. Initial reaction to the event sparked vehement criticism from all quarters of the British media. Subsequently, Cantona received a ban from the Football Association and faced civil action in the courts.

However, on his re-entry to the game in October 1995, Cantona was received with open arms by both the fans and an expectant media whose critical opinion of the player had turned full circle during his exile. This was mainly due to revelations of the racist abuse Cantona had allegedly received at the hands of the supporter he attacked. The incident provides an interesting case study with which to investigate the position of sports stars as role models, the perceived responsibility of television in the coverage of violent events and issues pertaining to the justification for violence.

Footie season in the UK starts in Oct, ends in March/April.
Though Cantona got 8 months these were calendar months, not playing months, in actual effect it came down to 15 games (13 in the 94/85 season and 2 in the 95/96 season.

(this was known when the suspension was handed down)

ALL these cases the player(s) went into the stands.

McKeyFan

12-23-2004, 02:28 PM

In reading this thread it becomes clear to me that Artest's actions, though bad, were not horrible. And certainly they don't rank and some of the worst ever in sport.

However, the entire incident gets the ranking because, in contrast to most of the incidents listed in this thread, the Palace AS A WHOLE seemed to be in dissaray. It wasn't a few players on players, some fans on fans, or a few players and a few fans. It involved a few players AND A WHOLE LOT OF FANS.

The fans, not Artest, cause the Palace event to get in the rankings. Many players have done things like unto, or even worse, than Artest, Vernon Maxwell being exhibit A. The Detroit fans made it an historical event.

Guaransheed

12-23-2004, 08:47 PM

In reading this thread it becomes clear to me that Artest's actions, though bad, were not horrible. And certainly they don't rank and some of the worst ever in sport.

However, the entire incident gets the ranking because, in contrast to most of the incidents listed in this thread, the Palace AS A WHOLE seemed to be in dissaray. It wasn't a few players on players, some fans on fans, or a few players and a few fans. It involved a few players AND A WHOLE LOT OF FANS.

The fans, not Artest, cause the Palace event to get in the rankings. Many players have done things like unto, or even worse, than Artest, Vernon Maxwell being exhibit A. The Detroit fans made it an historical event.
We ride together baby

ABADays

12-23-2004, 09:03 PM

How about the riot at the Minnesota vs. Ohio State basketball game. Potential #1 pick 7 footer Luke Witte of the Buckeyes was pummeled senseless and never really amounted to much as a player after that. I thaought of that brawl while watching the Nov 19 "incident".
The one Dave Winfield was involved in.