thebear1 wrote:Wow! I can't even believe the Suprem Court of the United States is even considering granting corporation another level of Personhood. I've never seen a corporation worship at the alter. I've never seen a corporation go to confession. I've never seen a corporation face to the east and pray to Mecca. I've never seen a corporation take sacriment. A corporation is a business construct or model folks, not a person. Corporations were granted certain privelages back in the late 1800's like limitted liability and certain tax advantages that individuals do not have. They were granted these privelages provided that they operate in the public interest. If Citizens United was the black eye of free speech, this this will be the head trauma and soon to follow coma for citizens of the United States.

It is obvious to me based on comments I have heard on radio, TV, blogs, etc that a good portion of Americans have no idea what kind of power and ability corporations will have to opress American citizens with a decision soon to possibly be handed down by the Supreme Court. Somehow an infection has infected America that has gotten many to believe corporations and business is always right and everything else like government is bad. Well, if this is upheld by the Supreme Court, Americans will soon find out just how bad corporate opression can be.

This reminds me of the movie "Idiocracy". Are we so blinded and stupified by the monied and powerfull in America that we have failed to see where that money and power is leading us??? Unbelievable!!!!

What is a corporation if not a grouping of PEOPLE for some common purpose?

Do PEOPLE who have incorporated somehow give up their individual rights?

We have courts that can impose penalties on corporations when they harm people. We also have laws, and the means to enforce them, if corporations get too far out of line. The PEOPLE who own and operate these corporate entities are governed by the same laws as the rest of us.

You are making the same common mistake most people make with regard to a "corporation." A corporation is a business construct that specifically separates ownership from "corporate liability". That distinction alone separates the "people" who run a "corporation" from "corporate" liability which in essence makes the corporation an entity devoid of personhood. Now if the people who run a corporation were not exempt from corporate liability you may have a case to call a corporation a person.

This case presents a whole host of other issues. Does this case also mean that the people who work for a corporation can't have their own religious views and how much power should a corporation have over the religious views of the those who work for it. What about publicly traded corporations and people who are heavily invested in a public corporation to such an extent they are officers in the corporation. If the religious views of the majority stock holder effects the stock value of other major holders then legally what is the corporations legal liability to protect profits from dividends or rather prevent losses?

Once again I see a lot of comments not very well thought out. Instead what I see are knee jerk responses based on personal ideals rather than a broad spectrum of thought.

Last edited by thebear1 on March 25th, 2014, 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

less free wrote:Yup, if the court finds that the beliefs of individuals who create jobs don't have a place in their own company it will be an unobstructed path to having abortions covered as part of Obamacare minimum requirements. Won't the liberals rejoice on the day they can force those with religiousbeliefs to fund their baby slaughter.

It would help if you actually educated yourself about the law. Obamacare specifically prevents any government, local, state or federal, from mandating abortion coverage.

Last edited by Sal M O\'nella on March 25th, 2014, 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tumultuous wrote:What comes down to again is authoritarian rule versus free enterprise. Freedom from tyranny or tyrannical rule. The SCOTUS has already changed the mandatory insurance to a TAX even though it didn't pass congress correctly to be a TAX? These costumed clowns dressed in black robes need to just resign because they are not getting it right at all.

Wow. We have a right-leaning Supreme Court and yet you disparage even it.

Whatever will you do when we get a left-leaning Supreme Court? Those of on the Left tolerate the one we have now. Will you tolerate the one we may get in the future?

What will I do or We the People do? I think there would most likely be a repeat of 1776!

The old right-wing "my way or the highway" routine. Good luck with that.

Exempt from what? Obamacare?!? They are exempt. The mandate of Obamacare only applies to businesses with more than 50 employees. A sole proprietorship, by definition is only 1 person and therefor is exempt from the employer mandate.

Do you ever get tired of being wrong? Sole proprietorships can't have employees?!? Try again.

less free wrote:Yup, if the court finds that the beliefs of individuals who create jobs don't have a place in their own company it will be an unobstructed path to having abortions covered as part of Obamacare minimum requirements. Won't the liberals rejoice on the day they can force those with religiousbeliefs to fund their baby slaughter.

What about when the courts validated a long time ago that employers cannot discriminate against people for race, creed, gender, nationality, disability and so forth despite their fervently held religious beliefs?

The problem here is not any sincerely held believe, it is Christian fundamentalists trying to force their world view onto others.

She was already learning that if you ignore the rules people will, half the time, quietly rewrite them so that they don't apply to you.-Equal Rites

Exempt from what? Obamacare?!? They are exempt. The mandate of Obamacare only applies to businesses with more than 50 employees. A sole proprietorship, by definition is only 1 person and therefor is exempt from the employer mandate.

Do you ever get tired of being wrong? Sole proprietorships can't have employees?!? Try again.

less free wrote:Yup, if the court finds that the beliefs of individuals who create jobs don't have a place in their own company it will be an unobstructed path to having abortions covered as part of Obamacare minimum requirements. Won't the liberals rejoice on the day they can force those with religiousbeliefs to fund their baby slaughter.

It would help if you actually educated yourself about the law. Obamacare specifically prevents any government, local, state or federal, from mandating abortion coverage.

less free wrote:Yup, if the court finds that the beliefs of individuals who create jobs don't have a place in their own company it will be an unobstructed path to having abortions covered as part of Obamacare minimum requirements. Won't the liberals rejoice on the day they can force those with religiousbeliefs to fund their baby slaughter.

Once again you do not understand the difference between a company that is incorporated and one that is not. A corporation by definition separates ownership from corporate liability and by definition makes a corporation an entity without the same qualities endowed to people. This is precisely why most companies incorporate, specifically to limit personal liability not to mention a whole host of other advantages persons do not have.

less free wrote:Yup, if the court finds that the beliefs of individuals who create jobs don't have a place in their own company it will be an unobstructed path to having abortions covered as part of Obamacare minimum requirements. Won't the liberals rejoice on the day they can force those with religiousbeliefs to fund their baby slaughter.

It would help if you actually educated yourself about the law. Obamacare specifically prevents any government, local, state or federal, from mandating abortion coverage.

...and Obama hasn't changed this law at will now has he.

He can't and he hasn't. It would take an act of congress to change the law.

less free wrote:Yup, if the court finds that the beliefs of individuals who create jobs don't have a place in their own company it will be an unobstructed path to having abortions covered as part of Obamacare minimum requirements. Won't the liberals rejoice on the day they can force those with religiousbeliefs to fund their baby slaughter.

What about when the courts validated a long time ago that employers cannot discriminate against people for race, creed, gender, nationality, disability and so forth despite their fervently held religious beliefs?

The problem here is not any sincerely held believe, it is Christian fundamentalists trying to force their world view onto others.

Yes that is it. They had to take it to the supreme court level to "force their world view on others", which is to not be forced to provide for that which conflicts heavily with their sincere beliefs. Here's an idea, pay for your own morning after pill.

less free wrote:Yup, if the court finds that the beliefs of individuals who create jobs don't have a place in their own company it will be an unobstructed path to having abortions covered as part of Obamacare minimum requirements. Won't the liberals rejoice on the day they can force those with religiousbeliefs to fund their baby slaughter.

What about when the courts validated a long time ago that employers cannot discriminate against people for race, creed, gender, nationality, disability and so forth despite their fervently held religious beliefs?

The problem here is not any sincerely held believe, it is Christian fundamentalists trying to force their world view onto others.

Yes that is it. They had to take it to the supreme court level to "force their world view on others", which is to not be forced to provide for that which conflicts heavily with their sincere beliefs. Here's an idea, pay for your own morning after pill.

Here's an idea, pay for your own protest cancer prevention and treatment.

less free wrote:Yup, if the court finds that the beliefs of individuals who create jobs don't have a place in their own company it will be an unobstructed path to having abortions covered as part of Obamacare minimum requirements. Won't the liberals rejoice on the day they can force those with religiousbeliefs to fund their baby slaughter.

What about when the courts validated a long time ago that employers cannot discriminate against people for race, creed, gender, nationality, disability and so forth despite their fervently held religious beliefs?

The problem here is not any sincerely held believe, it is Christian fundamentalists trying to force their world view onto others.

Yes that is it. They had to take it to the supreme court level to "force their world view on others", which is to not be forced to provide for that which conflicts heavily with their sincere beliefs. Here's an idea, pay for your own morning after pill.

Here's an idea, pay for your own protest cancer prevention and treatment.

Exempt from what? Obamacare?!? They are exempt. The mandate of Obamacare only applies to businesses with more than 50 employees. A sole proprietorship, by definition is only 1 person and therefor is exempt from the employer mandate.

Do you ever get tired of being wrong? Sole proprietorships can't have employees?!? Try again.

Reading comprehension! That is what I said.

Any sole proprietorship can have employees. That's why you get a Federal Employer Identification Number (FEIN). So, you're wrong, again.

less free wrote:Yup, if the court finds that the beliefs of individuals who create jobs don't have a place in their own company it will be an unobstructed path to having abortions covered as part of Obamacare minimum requirements. Won't the liberals rejoice on the day they can force those with religiousbeliefs to fund their baby slaughter.

It would help if you actually educated yourself about the law. Obamacare specifically prevents any government, local, state or federal, from mandating abortion coverage.

...and Obama hasn't changed this law at will now has he.

He can't and he hasn't. It would take an act of congress to change the law.

Exempt from what? Obamacare?!? They are exempt. The mandate of Obamacare only applies to businesses with more than 50 employees. A sole proprietorship, by definition is only 1 person and therefor is exempt from the employer mandate.

Do you ever get tired of being wrong? Sole proprietorships can't have employees?!? Try again.

"Newspapers are unable, seemingly to discriminate between a bicycle accident and the collapse of civilization"~ George Bernard Shaw “It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority.” ― Benjamin Franklin

less free wrote:Yup, if the court finds that the beliefs of individuals who create jobs don't have a place in their own company it will be an unobstructed path to having abortions covered as part of Obamacare minimum requirements. Won't the liberals rejoice on the day they can force those with religiousbeliefs to fund their baby slaughter.

What about when the courts validated a long time ago that employers cannot discriminate against people for race, creed, gender, nationality, disability and so forth despite their fervently held religious beliefs?

The problem here is not any sincerely held believe, it is Christian fundamentalists trying to force their world view onto others.

Yes that is it. They had to take it to the supreme court level to "force their world view on others", which is to not be forced to provide for that which conflicts heavily with their sincere beliefs. Here's an idea, pay for your own morning after pill.

Here's an idea - Stay out of employees health care choices.

It's none of yours, or Hobby Lobby's business.

She was already learning that if you ignore the rules people will, half the time, quietly rewrite them so that they don't apply to you.-Equal Rites

less free wrote:Yup, if the court finds that the beliefs of individuals who create jobs don't have a place in their own company it will be an unobstructed path to having abortions covered as part of Obamacare minimum requirements. Won't the liberals rejoice on the day they can force those with religiousbeliefs to fund their baby slaughter.

It would help if you actually educated yourself about the law. Obamacare specifically prevents any government, local, state or federal, from mandating abortion coverage.

...and Obama hasn't changed this law at will now has he.

He can't and he hasn't. It would take an act of congress to change the law.

He hasn't? Where have you been, on a long trip through denial?

Why did presidential history only start in 2008 for the righties? The executive branch is tasked with implementing and administering laws. They cannot change laws, but they can adjust the implementation of laws based on changing conditions. It happens frequently with large laws such as Obamacare. In the end the law will be implemented as written unless congress changes the law. It may just take longer than planned for all the parts to kick in. It has happened under every president in my lifetime and I assume most presidents in this countries history have made adjustments to implementing new laws.

less free wrote:Yup, if the court finds that the beliefs of individuals who create jobs don't have a place in their own company it will be an unobstructed path to having abortions covered as part of Obamacare minimum requirements. Won't the liberals rejoice on the day they can force those with religiousbeliefs to fund their baby slaughter.

Once again you do not understand the difference between a company that is incorporated and one that is not. A corporation by definition separates ownership from corporate liability and by definition makes a corporation an entity without the same qualities endowed to people. This is precisely why most companies incorporate, specifically to limit personal liability not to mention a whole host of other advantages persons do not have.

Yes, it has to do with financials and liability and protecting personal liability. None of which has anything to do with mandating regulations which interfere with sincere religious beliefs. These companies do have owners who brought them into existence and keep them going. There is also no line, thick or thin, between this and abortion.Birth control and abortion are both legal. Both have been classified as womens health (I disagree) so whats the difference? Do you think this exact issue won't be used with abortion one day?