Yes, I support it wholeheartedly. I'm an older user and have felt comfortable working in GoLive (CS) and love the idea of continuing to work in an upgraded GL with the same basic interface I'm familiar with. I would definitely consider a GL upgrade that would work ideally in Snow Leopard or whatever the latest Mac OS would be.

Hi Marian, that's a good question (although there's really no need shout out with the enormous bold text). The answer is I'm not a serious web author and therefore, the CS version has done the basics for me adequately to now. And there's often been budget matters. But I am ready to go forward soon and if there's any chance I can stick with GL rather than start almost from scratch with DW, I'd go for it.

So why in the world would we think it is reasonable for Adobe to revive a dead application that was already reduced to something different and mostly unusable as GoLive 9?

Why are some of us begging for a new version when we are content with what we have?

If you are content with GL and the computer it is running on, why bother with an upgrade to either the computer, the OS, or the web design program? It is this total disconnect from logic that has me scratching my head over this thread. Supposing you must buy a new computer with an OS that does not support GL, is anyone holding a gun to your head to throw out your old computer that runs GL just fine?

No developer is going to be motivated by this thread when a good portion of the people are saying they love the older version GoLive they bought years ago and never updated. You've got an odd way of marketing yourselves as eager consumers.

So why in the world would we think it is reasonable for Adobe to revive a dead application that was already reduced to something different and mostly unusable as GoLive 9?

Why are some of us begging for a new version when we are content with what we have?

If you are content with GL and the computer it is running on, why bother with an upgrade to either the computer, the OS, or the web design program? It is this total disconnect from logic that has me scratching my head over this thread. Supposing you must buy a new computer with an OS that does not support GL, is anyone holding a gun to your head to throw out your old computer that runs GL just fine?

No developer is going to be motivated by this thread when a good portion of the people are saying they love the older version GoLive they bought years ago and never updated. You've got an odd way of marketing yourselves as eager consumers.

No one is making any promises. If you think this thread is stupid and useless, then why bother to keep knocking those who post here? It almost gives the impression that GoLive's revival, or a similar option thereof, might actually present some kind of perceived threat to the future of DW.

If there is no threat, and the idea of possibilities is null and void, then there is really no need for concern.

Although, since 1987, I have updated to the new OS as soon as it has come out, and upgraded to the latest, most wonderful, top-of-the line Mac you could buy every year since, and so on, in the last few years, it has become harder and harder to stay on top. It is very difficult for freelancers to take such a large chunk of money every year to update computers and software. I will have no choice but to upgrade soon since I have to keep up with the technology. I do both print and Web.

With that said, I don't know where there is a rule that we have to be slaves of developers in order to do our jobs and have to give them insentives to do theirs. I haven't updated to CS4 yet. Mainly, because my main clients are still in CS3 and can't afford to upgrade the whole company to CS4. That is a concern in these economic times. If we are able to work in CS3, it is very difficult to get the company owners to pay for an upgrade. That is an economic reality. So, the old system of releasing a new upgrade every year was good when we were all fat and happy. But, it is not working so good in these lean times. I have been using DW along with GL since 2004. I manage all my websites with GL. I agree about the interface. It is just much more user friendly and it allows me to visually check links. And there are features in it that save me preacious time. I use Dreamweaver for other things which I can't do in GL. So I now use them both together as one app. I just go back and forth from one to the other. This is why I wish that it was all in one and I didn't have to go back and forth.

Although, since 1987, I have updated to the new OS as soon as it has come out, and upgraded to the latest, most wonderful, top-of-the line Mac you could buy every year since, and so on, in the last few years, it has become harder and harder to stay on top. It is very difficult for freelancers to take such a large chunk of money every year to update computers and software. I will have no choice but to upgrade soon since I have to keep up with the technology. I do both print and Web.

With that said, I don't know where there is a rule that we have to be slaves of developers in order to do our jobs and have to give them insentives to do theirs. I haven't updated to CS4 yet. Mainly, because my main clients are still in CS3 and can't afford to upgrade the whole company to CS4. That is a concern in these economic times. If we are able to work in CS3, it is very difficult to get the company owners to pay for an upgrade. That is an economic reality. So, the old system of releasing a new upgrade every year was good when we were all fat and happy. But, it is not working so good in these lean times. I have been using DW along with GL since 2004. I manage all my websites with GL. I agree about the interface. It is just much more user friendly and it allows me to visually check links. And there are features in it that save me preacious time. I use Dreamweaver for other things which I can't do in GL. So I now use them both together as one app. I just go back and forth from one to the other. This is why I wish that it was all in one and I didn't have to go back and forth.

Pachi,

I totally understand. I still use GoLive 8, but mainly because it's better than GL9 for my purposes. I remember GL 6 as being an excellent version. If it were not for the older bloated code in GL6, and possible incompatibilities, I might actually have tried reinstalling it.

As mentioned earlier I use both GL and DW pretty much every day. DW is fine and good, but the more I use it the more I appreciate the time saving features of GoLive. The fact that I really have not seen any of the previous GL requested features implemented in DWCS4 makes me wonder if they will ever be implemented. My guess is that DW is a very simple application to develop compared to GoLive. GoLive's features have to require a great deal more programing. Just something I've thought about. Could be wrong.

No one is making any promises. If you think this thread is stupid and useless, then why bother to keep knocking those who post here? It almost gives the impression that GoLive's revival, or a similar option thereof, might actually present some kind of perceived threat to the future of DW.

If there is no threat, and the idea of possibilities is null and void, then there is really no need for concern.

This is not the first time you have hinted that you think I am pro-DW. I am not. I rarely use DW. I am not promoting/defending any application or any developer. I am just like the rest of us, looking for the most efficient tool to design web sites.

I am not knocking people who post here. I am knocking your absurd belief that GL can be revived. You are turning this forum from a place to discuss how to use GoLive to your own promotional platform for revivegolive.com. Why don't you put up a forum on your own site? Why don't you make or join a facebook group of other GoLive users where you can really build concensus? Your perception of the web seems oddly ancient for a professional web creator.

It is nice to see people posting for the first time but those that are posting are part-time freelancers, casual home users, and/or those that don't feel that they needed to support GoLive in the past by purchasing upgrades. This is not an audience that a developer wants to mess with. They go where the money is. This is precisely why GoLive died. This thread is doing very well to explain why GoLive died.

As has been stated several times before, if you want an intelligent discussion about this, look to existing web applications and discuss how they might be better. You are your own worst enemy if your vision is limited to DW and GL. Contact the developers of other web design applications and offer your feature requests/suggestions. Developers of other web design apps are not reading this thread to get ideas. No ideas have been offered here.

No one is making any promises. If you think this thread is stupid and useless, then why bother to keep knocking those who post here? It almost gives the impression that GoLive's revival, or a similar option thereof, might actually present some kind of perceived threat to the future of DW.

If there is no threat, and the idea of possibilities is null and void, then there is really no need for concern.

This is not the first time you have hinted that you think I am pro-DW. I am not. I rarely use DW. I am not promoting/defending any application or any developer. I am just like the rest of us, looking for the most efficient tool to design web sites.

I am not knocking people who post here. I am knocking your absurd belief that GL can be revived. You are turning this forum from a place to discuss how to use GoLive to your own promotional platform for revivegolive.com. Why don't you put up a forum on your own site? Why don't you make or join a facebook group of other GoLive users where you can really build concensus? Your perception of the web seems oddly ancient for a professional web creator.

It is nice to see people posting for the first time but those that are posting are part-time freelancers, casual home users, and/or those that don't feel that they needed to support GoLive in the past by purchasing upgrades. This is not an audience that a developer wants to mess with. They go where the money is. This is precisely why GoLive died. This thread is doing very well to explain why GoLive died.

As has been stated several times before, if you want an intelligent discussion about this, look to existing web applications and discuss how they might be better. You are your own worst enemy if your vision is limited to DW and GL. Contact the developers of other web design applications and offer your feature requests/suggestions. Developers of other web design apps are not reading this thread to get ideas. No ideas have been offered here.

I look forward to meaningful discussions on these forums.

Obviously I have offended you. Not my intention. If you prefer that I pack up and leave, because I only add mindless nonsense to this forum, I am okay with that. If I am as stupid as you seem to think, so be it. This topic is something that is very important to me. I do consider myself a serious professional, and though I may not measure up to your mental qualifications, speaking up is what I do when something is important, and determination has become a way of life for me.

There is obviously a difference in the minds of those who have posted here as to what "support" of an app is. Marian believes support only is evidenced in outlay of cash for upgrades. This is an assumption on my part as she has stated that and/or implied that a couple of times - if I'm in error please advise, Marian. From a business persons viewpoint that's completely valid.

To me - and some of the folks here - support means using the app instead of others that are available. Could be due to familiarity, ease of use, intuitive interface, affordability, lack of money to upgrade or jump to another app or any number of things.

As to the question about the seeming illogical attitude of users of the older versions of GL. Perhaps the thought is there are still little tweaks that would be welcome - and the continuing support by the owner/author of the app. The lack of the minor tweaks is not sufficient to deter the older versions use - may be due to purely economic reasons or any of the previously mentioned ones - but the improvements would still be welcome. Especially since a GL user/"owner" has made a commitment to the app through their original purchase. It's kind of like owning a car (the app) - for me anyway. I've invested in a vehicle (the app) to get me from here to there and back, provides comfort in the journey and has some extras I enjoy. I don't dump that car (app) for different model next year (new app) when it doesn't at least match in features the car (app) I have now. I can retrofit any improvements (minor tweaks to the app) into the vehicle I already have thus prolonging a useful car (app).

As mentioned the economic climate currently makes it less likely for anyone to make what to them is a large investment/purchase to either abandon GL, upgrade GL (which they cannot do now since it's dead) or change apps. If Adobe had adopted the attitude that Apple seems to have adopted with it's recent OS upgrade - charging less than $40 for that OS upgrade - perhaps more of us would have "supported" GL by your definition Marian. The thing for me is Adobe makes some great tools. I like using great tools. I can't use great tools if I can't afford them. Does that means I should always be disenfranchised from using great tools? Perhaps, but I don't agree with that kind of elitist attitude.

Mindless drivel, maybe. Freedom of expression, certainly. Thank you for your patience in allowing me to offer these thoughts.

What do you use GoLive for? Do you make a living off of this product? Do you also use Dreamweaver?

I use GoLive primarily for styling CSS and building templates for CMS's. I am employed full time as a web designer/developer and when I am not blind from looking at a monitor all day, I sometimes head home to work on freelance web projects. I've owned a license of DW since version 4 but it is rarely used.

It is hard to believe that GoLive has become a way of life for anyone when some of us admit that we have to wrestle with it crashing multiple times a day, that GL9 was a joke, and/or that we're content with a much older release and never needed the more recent features.

I'm not trying to cut anyone down or cut anyone off. We're all entitled to speak our minds. I'm trying to communicate that there are much better things we can do than try to petition a corpse back to life. I've known Linda on these forums for years and I am surprised at the silliness of this thread as I know she is capable of much more. Surely we are all better than this and could benefit from an actual discussion about where we go from here.

Most notably, look at the font apps: fontchameleon, fontfiddler, fonthopper, fontminder, and fontmonger. These apps were all purchased by Adobe and killed to benefit Adobe's bottom line. Why should consumers be able to create and convert fonts when Adobe would rather sell the font?

This is how the software business works. A company acquires intellectual property, uses what they can, and denies its competitors from using what remains. This is why you may want to drop the idea that Adobe is going to sell off GoLive to another developer.

Adobe owes us further GoLive upgrades/updates no more than we owe our customers unlimited updates to their sites. How do we, who create something for profit and require some capital to do so, not see that Adobe needs to do the same?

There are some spectacularly easy web design programs out there that I'm sure would suit many of us. For example, there's Freeway Pro and RapidWeaver for Mac and Microsoft Expression Web for Windows. If you have not tried these apps then you really have no reason to be moaning about not having options for easy web authoring.

I've known Linda on these forums for years and I am surprised at the silliness of this thread as I know she is capable of much more. Surely we are all better than this and could benefit from an actual discussion about where we go from here.

Marian, You must have used a different screen name. What screen name did you use previously?

I've been using GoLive since it was GoLive Cyberstudio. When Adobe bought GoLive (the company) I was a little freaked out, since even then Adobe was a big behemoth and slowly consolidating its monopoly position in graphics software. Frankly, with its acquisition of Dreamweaver, I'm surprised Adobe didn't kill it sooner. I guess they found they could make some money off of it and kept development going until they couldn't.

Anyway, the idea that one is supporting GoLive by not getting on the upgrade merry-go-round but loving the software is noble, but ridiculous. A $200 upgrade is, frankly, not that much if you're halfway serious. Companies (and the products they manufacture) live on cash and if there's no demand, then the supply eventually goes away. That said, I was disappointed when I upgraded to GolIve 9. I did it because I was using GoLive 6 but was out of the game for a while and when I got back in I wanted Intel compatibility. Now I can't figure out what is what. If this is where the upgrade path was headed, I'm not surprised people stopped buying it. Word gets around.

So, would I like to see Adobe revive GoLive? Sure, but if GoLive 9 is where it was headed, then no thank you. I find Dreamweaver absolutely impenetrable, so I'll try one of those groovy web-based development environments and see what happens.

But you know, it's funny. Over the years I've seen Adobe really listen to its customers and implement features that correspond to those requests (I'm thinking InDesign especially). I just don't get why they didn't take that left turn at Albuquerque and make it to the beach instead of popping up in a dark cave with a psychotic duck.

I've been using GoLive since it was GoLive Cyberstudio. When Adobe bought GoLive (the company) I was a little freaked out, since even then Adobe was a big behemoth and slowly consolidating its monopoly position in graphics software. Frankly, with its acquisition of Dreamweaver, I'm surprised Adobe didn't kill it sooner. I guess they found they could make some money off of it and kept development going until they couldn't.

Anyway, the idea that one is supporting GoLive by not getting on the upgrade merry-go-round but loving the software is noble, but ridiculous. A $200 upgrade is, frankly, not that much if you're halfway serious. Companies (and the products they manufacture) live on cash and if there's no demand, then the supply eventually goes away. That said, I was disappointed when I upgraded to GolIve 9. I did it because I was using GoLive 6 but was out of the game for a while and when I got back in I wanted Intel compatibility. Now I can't figure out what is what. If this is where the upgrade path was headed, I'm not surprised people stopped buying it. Word gets around.

So, would I like to see Adobe revive GoLive? Sure, but if GoLive 9 is where it was headed, then no thank you. I find Dreamweaver absolutely impenetrable, so I'll try one of those groovy web-based development environments and see what happens.

But you know, it's funny. Over the years I've seen Adobe really listen to its customers and implement features that correspond to those requests (I'm thinking InDesign especially). I just don't get why they didn't take that left turn at Albuquerque and make it to the beach instead of popping up in a dark cave with a psychotic duck.

Thank you for posting Lagow. It does seem that GoLive 9 was a bad upgrade. I still use GoLive 8 (CS2), along with Dreamweaver CS3 and CS4. I doubt whether anything will ever be done to revive GoLive, but it's always possible some group of developers might decide to start from the bottom up and create an application with an interface with features that at least simulate those of GL.

Then again, from what I understand, the direction of the web might be such that all of the current apps will be (and possibly already are becoming) obsolete, including DW... being replaced by various CMS systems.

Those of us who design by trade probably do need to be proactive in our own businesses (and self education) to be able to fit in with ever changing web development practices.

I would very much like a version of GL CS2, I am running CS(1) at the moment. I have tried to use Dreamweaver but find it a clumsy alternative to GL, I also tried many alternatives with Freeway the best of the bunch, but not quite sophisticated enough. I had hoped that Adobe would incorporate the salient features of GoLive as an option into their latest DW version.

I would very much like a version of GL CS2, I am running CS(1) at the moment. I have tried to use Dreamweaver but find it a clumsy alternative to GL, I also tried many alternatives with Freeway the best of the bunch, but not quite sophisticated enough. I had hoped that Adobe would incorporate the salient features of GoLive as an option into their latest DW version.

Thank you for adding to this thread. I realize my thread is probably a useless cause, but when you have a product that is extraordinary, certainly not perfect, but extraordinary just the same, I don't let it die without at least making the effort to speak up.

I hope you are able to find a legal copy of CS2 at a reasonable price.

YES! YES! and YES! I started designing websites with PageMill & then went on to DW..... & THAT was a very frustrating experience. However, after discovering the first version of GoLive I became an immediate "convert" & have used GL ever since! Efficient, intuitive, logical. Bring it back!!

Thank you for posting. Better hold onto your copy of GoLive very tightly, because at this point there is no sign of it ever being revived. Adobe seems to have changed a great deal since the GoLive days.

And from what I understand, the future of the web might end up being in the hands of open source apps such a Joomla and Drupal. From some reports I've read, this means Dreamweaver might also go by the wayside.

That said, GoLive never ceases to amaze me. Such a powerful application!

Adobe bought a better app (GoLive) than what they had and then killed off their own app (PageMill). So I don't see how anything has changed with the aquisition of Dreamweaver. Adobe is pretty consistent in this regard.

LRK 2 wrote:

And from what I understand, the future of the web might end up being in the hands of open source apps such a Joomla and Drupal. From some reports I've read, this means Dreamweaver might also go by the wayside.

Designers still need visual tools to design. The only thing that content management systems do is manage content. So instead of managing your site in a GoLive .site file, you do it within the CMS. Unless you have less than a dozen pages to manage, the future has already passed.

Most web sites are database-driven. CMS has been the standard for some time (whether from open source/GPL systems like Joomla and Drupal or closed source/proprietary systems like Microsoft SharePoint).

"It is nice to see people posting for the first time but those that are posting are part-time freelancers, casual home users, and/or those that don't feel that they needed to support GoLive in the past by purchasing upgrades. This is not an audience that a developer wants to mess with. They go where the money is. This is precisely why GoLive died. This thread is doing very well to explain why GoLive died."

I came here looking for the answer to a little GL glitch , and saw this thread and began to read the comments. I have to say that the above quoted statement is extremely arrogant and insulting to any customer of any company.

I certainly hope you do not represent Adobe in any professional capacity, because if this is how they truly feel about their customers, than it's no wonder they laid off 680 people recently.

If Adobe wanted to limit their sales of their products to only those developers working full time for corporations, pulling in the big web development jobs, then they should require the customer produce a degree from the design and development school they attended, and a statement from the company in which they are employed full time as a developer before purchasing any Adobe product. Additionally, they should sign a document requiring that all upgrades be purchased from Adobe within a 3 month date of release to satisfy your comments, ~and that these casual purchasers will not offend Adobe by not forking over cash every year for an upgrade of, as you describe it, a trickle of new features over several subsequent releases to ensure that the customers keep coming back for upgrades.

Your statement suggests that anyone who is part time, or free lancing, or a casual home user is not worthy of consideration for how Adobe's products are appreciated and utilized and quite frankly, I find your comments snobby, pretentious, pompous, and insulting. Furthermore requesting that the poster refrain from using GL forums is beyond reprehensible, unless you represent Adobe in a professional capacity, and have been given the authority to do so.

This is more than likely why GoLive died, and why, according to you, 1280 people were laid off in the past two years.

Obvioulsly this has nothing to do with the American national recession, because, according to your statements, any professional developer would easily be able to spend money for upgrades in order to keep Adobe producing more products we can all buy.

And in keeping with your observations, "This is exactly why Adobe discontinued GoLive. If people do not support/buy a program, the program dies." I would predict that many of the more popular programs will also "die" before the recession is over and people are once again comfortable spending. Showing support for a product is not only done by continually purchasing upgrades, but then, surely a professional web designer would know this as well.

If Linda's intention was to revive an old version of GoLive then yes, it is highly unlikely. But I believe her intention was to revive an interest in producing the blend of GoLive's best features, and rally some support and interest for a newer version of the software. Your belittling of her opinion is also imperious, and believe me, any professional web designer, as well as the free lancers, part timers, and any person reading this forum with a shred of intelligence would know this too.

I came here looking for the answer to a little GL glitch , and saw this thread and began to read the comments. I have to say that the above quoted statement is extremely arrogant and insulting to any customer of any company.

I certainly hope you do not represent Adobe in any professional capacity...

As you have no idea who I am or who I represent, your comments are extremely uneducated, arrogant and insulting. I am sorry that you take offense to the reality of the situation. I do not mean to upset.

No, I do not represent Adobe. I entered this thread some time ago to represent common sense. Apparently you are not familiar with the concept of market demand. You would do well to research it and understand how the business world works. If you find the concept unfair then please create a free site for me now. Then do updates to it for free for the next three years. Then make a free site for everyone in this forum. I am certain that you would not offer your work for free so you would be a hypocrite to criticize Adobe for behaving like a business.

You are pulling my quote way out of context. Read the entire thread and then calm yourself. There's no need to raise your blood pressure.

You need to understand the history of this discussion before making absurd claims. Linda and I have discussed this for years. We are not enemies. This is just one of those threads on the topic of life after GoLive. Yes, it would be ideal to discuss alternative options for web design where GoLive functionality might appear in other apps but Linda seems to avoid that conversation, even when I have prompted her several times. She apparently thinks her only two options are GL and DW.

Adobe is not exclusively developing for corporate users (ie: Photoshop Elements and Premiere Elements are meant for casual users). All that my previous post recognized was that a couple people here were casual users that did not care to pay for upgrades for several years and suddenly felt surprised (even hurt) that GoLive vanished. If you don't feed your pet for 5 years, do not be surprised if it dies or gets really, really thin. If you don't speak with your grandmother for 5 years, don't drive down to Florida and expect that she'll have a place for you to stay the week. What other analogy can be said to make this any more clear?

~Zip wrote:

Obvioulsly this has nothing to do with the American national recession, because, according to your statements, any professional developer would easily be able to spend money for upgrades in order to keep Adobe producing more products we can all buy.

GoLive died from a recession of interest from both casual and professional users. GoLive was never as popular as DW. It was as simple as that.

You are welcome to infer anything you want my statements to 'suggest'. But you are really, really off and could likely find better things to do with your time... like discussing this GL glitch you have. Or are you just here to troll?

You're a bit off if you thought I have been posting directly to you ...and that I care if you alone want to continue to act stubbornly ignorant. This is a public forum where we can all learn and share. I'm just here to help people realize their many, many options; not sell your false hope and distractions.

If you want to control a conversation, moderate your own forum on your revivegolive.com site and quit distracting people from discussions about using GoLive here.

We still don't know about ~Zip's glitch because of your silly distraction.

Marion, I truly believe you are not trying to be abrasive, but you come across that way as some have picked up on and mentioned - zip in particular. Your last post has some contradictions. "This is a public forum where we can all learn and share." Then you state: "quit distracting people from discussions about using GoLive here." I guess I thought we were discussing using and sharing thoughts about GoLive here.

You've made many good points. I think others have made good points contrary to yours. Indeed, a business must act business-like or it ceases to be. Reviving GoLive would not be prudent for Adobe. Surely implementing GL's best points into DW would be wise. Or coming up with an entirely new hybrid app with the best of both would be wise. You seem reluctant to acknowledge that would be one good - certainly not the only - course for Adobe to take. I don't understand why that is the case. And that's where you come across as mean spirited. You are obviously entitled to state your opinion so I'm not suggesting you should do anything less than that.

Do you believe that spending $300 for an app only entitles you to use it for a year? That you must pay another $100 for the next version - with minor tweaks - to evidence your "support"? Does that have to be the sole measure of a user's support for an app? Are there no other measures by which to gauge support? I assume that you believe that to be the case from what you've shared. And yes, I do understand this from Adobe's standpoint. It's probably the only measure they are willing to consider. It is certainly the one that has the biggest impact on Adobe. My take is some of the folks here would appreciate seeing Adobe modify it's view on support of any app - to take into account loyal users "reasons" for being so - and then acting in a manner that retains those loyal users and, hopefully, adds more.

For a business to create good will amongst it's customers is a very wise course for a business to take. You will create customers that will remain loyal through good and bad times. You will perhaps even realize an increase in your customer base as loyal customers tell others of their positive experience. I chose to originally buy GL as it was regarded as the best app for web design at the time. I still think it does a great job. But the decision was made to kill it. Such is life. In the words/lyrics of Jimi Hendrix "No if you'll excuse me I must be on my way."

Marion, I truly believe you are not trying to be abrasive, but you come across that way as some have picked up on and mentioned - zip in particular. Your last post has some contradictions. "This is a public forum where we can all learn and share." Then you state: "quit distracting people from discussions about using GoLive here." I guess I thought we were discussing using and sharing thoughts about GoLive here.

No, we're not discussing GoLive in this thread. This thread is filled with idle wishes that will never be filled. There is nothing in this thread that will help any user of GoLive. The thread can actually hurt GoLive users by making them think they do not need to prepare for the future. When some of us try to discuss alternative tools (which is something Linda once voiced an interest in), Linda steers the conversation away. When I ask what action she has taken to petition developers, Linda says she has 'ceased to listen'. This thread is about nothing. It is just a lame GoLive popularity contest run by a teenager. We might as well be discussing the Jonas brothers. The Jonas brothers would be more on topic for this GoLive forum than this thread.

LUH3417 wrote:

Surely implementing GL's best points into DW would be wise. Or coming up with an entirely new hybrid app with the best of both would be wise. You seem reluctant to acknowledge that would be one good - certainly not the only - course for Adobe to take. I don't understand why that is the case. And that's where you come across as mean spirited. You are obviously entitled to state your opinion so I'm not suggesting you should do anything less than that.

I probably come across as mean spirited to you because you have no idea what I have stated in this thread. Good grief. Read this thread! I never said that I was "reluctant to acknowledge that would be one good - certainly not the only - course for Adobe to take". I have repeatedly posted how Adobe would likely roll GL features into DW or a hybrid app. And I have discussed why it is taking time. Are you reading the same thread that everyone else is or are you just here to be disruptive and confusing toward others?

LUH3417 wrote:

Do you believe that spending $300 for an app only entitles you to use it for a year...

It does not matter what I believe. I am only relaying how a software developer works. If you have a problem with that, complain to Adobe and every other developer that has to put bread on their table.

I never worked for Adobe. I did not shut GoLive down. Quit blaming me for how a developer does business.

I've considered this situation plenty from both sides. I use GoLive. I develop software. I have customers. I am a customer.

I want to offer my sincere apology for upsetting you Marian. It was not my intention. I did not remember that you had mentioned the possibility of a GL/DW hybrid or that angle of my comment. I have read the thread from the point when it was started - back when it started. I failed to go back and re-read it all recently.

I meant no disrespect in my thoughts. As I said you have made many good points. I appreciate you taking the time to contribute your thoughts and knowledge on this. I am not blaming you for anything concerning GL's demise or how a developer does business. It would be the height of foolishness to do so. Again, I am truly sorry for offending you.

GoLive is the only product I have ever used, short of html editing, since around 2000 or so.

Everyone else was using Frontpage then I think or still typing text.

Abobe was not getting market share with GL (dreamweaver and front page dominated) so Adobe bought Macromedia, gained instant market share, and dropped go-live. It is not and never was "which is better" argument. It was strictly about the money.

They did the same thing with the old swf animator they had too... Flash replaced that product for the market share.

I downloaded and gave dreamweaver a shot. After a decade of Golive I was lost trying to get back up to speed.

I also shifted to Linux/Ubuntu and tried Kompozer, an open source free product, and found it very robust but still had me a little lost.

So this is when I decided to check out of the software-upgrade world and stick with what I have.

I have GL CS2, Photoshop CS2, and Microsot office 2003 running on my Ubuntu machine via Wine emulation. I will not rely on Microsodt or Adobe henceforth as I don't care if they support it anymore. I Norton Ghost it all so that when I change computes or disks I image back to the new machine or disk. No need for validation... ever again. So why bother with Dream weaver? I can easily do in GoLive everything I need to do. As the technology grows and features I need are not available I simply look around the free open source programs like Kompozer and many other and see if they have a feature I want. These open source programs are only a few years behind the front runners. Whatever feature Microsoft or Adobe comes up with the open source group will copy very soon.

So its really not necessary to bring go live back. Keep the golive you have, ghost your disk so that you never have to load it or validate it again, use it like always. It works just as well today as it did when it was released.

Don't upgrade to Windows 7. GoLive will not open and run in 7. I recently lost my hard drive and because my computer had seen better days, it was time to purchase new, with a quad processer, a terrabyte of memory, 6 gig of ram and... Windows 7.

What is one to do about the many websites that have been built and maintained in GL if you can not upgrade to newer operating systems? Are we to pass the jar of Vaseline on to the customers and tell them we're sorry, Adobe cares nothing about the fact that we purchased their product when it was the latest, greatest thing, built yours, and many other websites using their finest available software, and now are being forced to either quit, or redo all of the websites we have built using their software, because they are no longer concerned about our issues.. That our money meant nothing to them, and now they won't even show us the courtesy of testing their product on the latest operating systems, or offer any fixes.

I now have to own two computers, one that runs an antiquidated version of XP to maintain the many websites and support MY customers, and one with the newest bells and whistles to build future websites with.

There is nothing wrong with my latest upgrade of Photoshop CS2, (or ANY of the other CS2 and Macromedia 8 Suite which I spent over two thousand dollars for) yet I can not run it unless I upgrade to CS4 to make it compatible with Windows 7. The application will not recognize my serial number, despite several calls and chats to ADOBE representatives, who tell me I need to upgrade to CS4. They will not even offer a fix or at the very least, a test.

And, even if I did upgrade to the entire CS4 Suite, GoLive is not included as a part of that. So I would be spending money to get.... nothing "new" that I need, just a couple of different design tools I would likely not use. Which brings me back to the current issue.

I have 25 plus websites I have built with GoLive, many I maintain and update on a regular basis. Am I to tell these clients that I can no longer service something I built for them unless they shell out more money for me to redo their website in ... what... another ADOBE product that they may not stand behind in the future? Is this how they do business? They disrespect me, so I have to pass this along to my customers, and they pass it along to their customers? Is this any way to do business?

How am I to trust that they will not drop another of their finery in the event I do purchase their current latest greatest? It's wrong, it's no way to do business, and it's losing them customer's trust in their products and support. Worst, it's costing me business and trust from my customers. I am not sure what my options are at the moment, but I'll bet there are others in the same position.

" If you don't feed your pet for 5 years, do not be surprised if it dies or gets really, really thin. If you don't speak with your grandmother for 5 years, don't drive down to Florida and expect that she'll have a place for you to stay the week. What other analogy can be said to make this any more clear?"

I came on the ADOBE scene with GL6, and upgraded to CS2, only to discover it was dropped just a few months later when CS3 came out. No "warning" from them when I bought the product that this was going to be dropped.

Here's an analogy for you.... It's like buying a brand new car of your dreams and paying top dollar for it, to discover that in the very next year they will no longer make any replacement parts for it, so when you burn out a headlight they tell you... too bad... buy our newest car instead. And if you don't because the rest of the car works just fine.... and you only drive in the dark once in a while, then that's your tough problem.

It's like ADOBE is saying, "You have to join our little club and support us by purchasing our new vehicles every time we change the design of the doorknobs and the windshield wipers". And "So what if you get a traffic ticket for a burned out headlight, that's your problem for buying (and driving) our cars in the first place."

This is not good business.

And as long as I am addressing your comments,

" If you find the concept unfair then please create a free site for me now. Then do updates to it for free for the next three years. Then make a free site for everyone in this forum. I am certain that you would not offer your work for free so you would be a hypocrite to criticize Adobe for behaving like a business."

The forums and support site is not "free". It's part of the package and bundle ADOBE offers when they sell their products. If they get people such as the developers (and/or yourself) to contribute their expertise and advice for FREE so they can sell "support" as part of their bundle, then they win. But don't lay this in the lap of the customers as if ADOBE is doing anyone a favor. I purchased "support" when I purchased my bundle. How they offer that support is of their own choosing, whether it's a forum, a chat with a dude in India, or a skinny grandma in Florida.

Thank you for sharing your experience and perspective TinkerTools. Good points and good analogies.

Even though I am glad you posted and made valid points, I do want to encourage you that all is not lost with your previous websites. It may take some work on those that used special menu systems and/or components, but the sites can be maintained in Dreamweaver.

I have pretty much all my client sites setup to where I can open them in both programs, and I do. I use the best of both worlds. Because GoLive's Components are so powerful I continue to use GL as my primary website editor.

Here's a brief synopsis of my workflow. So far it's working very well. I set them up in GoLive (CS2) first. Then I close GoLive, and proceed to set them up in Dreamweaver CS3 and/or DW CS4. I started using DWCS4 but have had problems with it crashing, so I've had to go back to DWCS3. I simply point the DW site to the files in the GL folder, and the images folder. I've rebuilt all my menu systems using extensions bought in DW on a separate HTML page. I then quite DW and reopen the site in GL. I move the menu system HTML file to my components, and insert it where ever I want the menu.

I also set my preferences to strip GL of GoLive specific code when I upload and flatten scripts. This keeps the code less bloated and less "GoLivey". i test my sites, well the ones I'm hired to maintain, to make sure they validate as XHMTL Transitional.

There is much more by way of details I could share but will stop here for now. I just want you to know that even though it stinks that we no longer have options to upgrade this beloved tool, all is not lost. That said, I do dread the day when I can no longer run GoLive because of system upgrades. But at least I know that I can use DW if I have to. I don't like it because it takes more time to do the same tasks, and I don't enjoy the interface as much, but at least I know I can still continue working on my client's websites.

I think it's a great idea! I like GoLive because it was the first web-authoring app that I could work with. I've always struggled with web design yet I'm really pretty good in Photoshop, so I love the interactivity of GL and PS, and would love to have it integrated with oher Adobe products as well. I haven't migrated to Dreamweaver or another app because it took me so darn long to be able to weild GL around. I've aleays been bummed that as soon as I "got with the program" Adobe drops it!! So yes; def' a great idea...