This could explain why Germany seems to be a pretty good guy most of the time, but was a total psychopath during World War Two. Both personalities share a lot of the same traits, but Nazi-Germany had no moral problem with the horrible things he did during the war. Then, post WWII, England, America, France and Russia brought him to a nation psychologist, who was able to get rid of Nazi-Germany for good. Yay!

Germany was still the same no matter what during World War Two. It's just that he always followed orders no matter how disgusting or crazy he thought they were. So more of a case of Just Following Orders really.

Maybe it wasn't just that he had to obey his boss. Maybe he was also subject to the collective will of his people. Maybe nation-tans have much less free will than individuals do; as long as the majority of the people don't defy a dictator, the nation-tan can't defy him either.

If that were the case, Germany would have got the hell out of Dodge before 1939. Or did you forget the mass immigration from Germany at the time? It's what got Albert Einstein in the United States.

The Nazis gained a lot of momentum when Germany was put through a period of poverty, humiliation, and starvation. Pretty good motivators to start following desperate (and awful) ideas, but even so it took a while to slip into depravity. This theory probably has more momentum in explaining how Germany could be oblivious to what was going on while simultaneously performing genocide; however, there's enough real issues that mental illness doesn't have to be resorted to.

Mental illness, or simply following the results of the obedience tests sociologists started undertaking shortly thereafter.

I stopped for a bit to consider the implications of Nazi Germany being a different person and here's what I came up with, run with me here: if Nazi Germany was a different person we can only assume that because he was unable to properly latch on to the population he would have died at the end of the war and the same would go for any other country who's had a schism. Now, if every such schism were to result in a new Nation-tan and that Nation-tan were to actually win then what would happen to the old one? He would become obsolete and die wouldn't he, and the new one would replace him but Nation-tans always seem to be the same person. Here's the point I'm getting at: the only way the new Nation-tan could rise to power is by doing away with the old one and assuming his position. This means that the France in the Chibitalia strips was not a younger version of the one in Bloodbath, he was the original France. The modern-day France in Bloodbath is the Fifth Republic who at the very least is France Version 10. In short, if every faction was it's own Nation-tan then it's quite possible that the modern nations are just versions of the past ones, all with the exact same face. Kind of makes them seem a bit cruel doesn't it?...

But Germany taking orders from his boss and being oblivious to it is canon. Besides, tons of germans died too and Germany isn't missing, like, an arm or something else that's Nation-tan code for slaughtering a bunch of your own. I'd say he's acting as his nation as a whole, and when the majority is following Hitler he follows Hitler, though he definatley isn't eager to some stuff. That last part is canon too by the way, he's even called them "weird" a few times.

As a slight deviation, I'll point out that this sort of idea has been tossed around in Fanon as regards Japan (i.e. Imperial!Japan who wears black (as seen during his betrayal of China) and Light!Japan in white).

Or rather, a shout-out to them. From Romano's POV, Veneziano is a total Mario with his Renaissance Man skills at art and cooking. Romano is the Luigi and he hates it.
This would also make a great explanation of why there are two of them.

Confirmed by Word of God. Italy isn't physically weak, but the enemy is scary and pasta is delicious, and there's a pretty girl over there.

There is also the strip of Italy looking serious at the battle of Custoza when he fights against Austria

Did no one remember that IRL, Italy is the country most associated with the mafia?

Well, technically it's Romano that is involved with the mafia.

Mafia ≠ military strength, in any case.

Holy Roman Empire becomes Germany when he grows up and forgets about his childhood when this happens.[edit | hide]

The dissolving of the empire brought him to lose his memory. After its fall, the Holy Roman Empire dissolved into several parts; but the 'original' HRE became Germany. Because he became Germany, he lost all his memories as HRE. HRE didn't divide into Ludwig and Gilbert because Gilbert existed long before. Also, HRE and Germany look similar. This is not just to make the Tear Jerker less heartbreaking.

There is a good fanart entry in the livejournal community about this where HRE lost his memory after being "Napoleon'd". Here it is.

Alternatively, HRE did divide into a lot of countries, but the Germany we know in the later eras is the almagation of these (He has Prussia living in/with him somewhere, then?). He won't get his memories back until and unless he can amalgamate all the former HRE countries, which will coincide with the apex of Axis Power in WW 2.

Historical support for this theory is that the Pope had crowned Charlemagne, a German, as the Holy Roman Emperor.

Perhaps once Germany admitted to himself that he might actually care for Italy his memories became unblocked.

History even goes so far as to give us the Kingdom of Germany that grew out of the earlier state of the East Franks (East Francia). However, Austria was shown to be the one in charge during that era (which I like to refer to Hetalia-wise as "Bosstria"). By that logic, HRE as we knew him in Hetalia was likely the actual state of East Francia/Kingdom of Germany. When The HRE was formed, this Kingdom took on the role of Empire, but with Austria being the guy running the show (the HRE was, for the most part, controlled from Vienna by the Hapsburgs). He would later call himself "The Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation", merging both concepts. Since most people wouldn't have known about this, it stands to reason that pretty much everybody only knew him as HRE and never knew of his previous name. Thus, no one took notice when "Germany" made his (re)entrance on the European scene (this time, with Prussia pulling the strings). This also allows Germany to survive despite the statement by France in that one side-comic where he said that HRE "is no more" (scroll down to see it). He said nothing about Ludwig (or about actual death, for that matter, but that might just be the translation). Also, Italy's a grade-A ditz. He likely wouldn't recognize the clues even if they were pointed right out to him. Oddly enough, The Kingdom of Germany exists in roughly the same area as "West Germany", adding to the theory. There's also no reason why the "amalgamation" theory also couldn't fit into this: while HRE was the Kingdom of Germany, maybe modern Germany is the Kingdom of Germany after he took over and merged with the other states that came to exist, in a sort of re-unification?

More teasing from the movie. While there were several cutaways throughout the movie, most of them had some plot relevance or included a joke. All except one that happens after Italy runs away and Germany can't go after him. Then, we are given a few seconds of Chibitalia and HRE saying each other's names. Nothing else happens, and it comes at an emotional moment between Germany and Italy. Really, how else are we supposed to take this?

This strip (found the link on this wiki - can anyone confirm its official placement?) shows Holy Rome trying to assert authority over his bickering Germanic states, demanding that they take turns speaking. We first meet Germany when...he's asserting authority over a bunch of bickering nations, demanding that they take turns speaking, although the more-robust Germany manages to do so without bleeding from the mouth. Either Germany started the way he meant to go on, or there's an awful lot of Generation Xerox among the nations.

Above strip is from the as yet unfinished 2011 Christmas Event. If you look closely, Holy Rome's eyes have taken on a more 'Germany' like appearance as well, in contrast to Holy Rome as a younger child

Come on. Germany is his Living Emotional Crutch, he's paranoid that Germany is going to forget him when he goes to see Russia. He's automatically and uncharacteristically depressed at the thought of Germany hating him. And if this strip is to be believed [1]...

Johan is German, blond, a creep with no conscience, a Stepford Smiler, and sadistic. Johan and Anna are Russia and Germany's love children, and either countries or normal people. Johan had his father's looks and Mother Russia's creepiness; Anna got her father's 'good' personality. Also, the flashback is a lie; Anna and Johan were given away to their 'mother' because Russia and Germany weren't ready to come out of the closet.

The characters are not actually the personifications of different countries, but rather some drunken College roommates who decided to reenact history for the hell of it.[edit | hide]

... possibly due to being a recovering Yandere. When they were younger, he got into fights with Korea, raided his vital regions, and tried to make him be one with him; now he overcompensates by denying it entirely. He secretly keeps a stack of Korean Wave products - along with a copy of that drawing of them playing together.

Japan even let Korea grope him once.

It wasn't just when he was younger. Japan was occupying/oppressing Korea until the World Wars were over, and there are still people in Japan who don't consider Korea an independent nation (needless to say, relations between the two are awful). And it's not just their stint in Korea that they deny, Japan has a 'don't talk about it' stance on a lot of their less savory history.

Well, I'm not sure how fair that is. Certainly there's a vocal minority of deniers in Japan (who tend to be louder than, say, the Neo-Nazis in Germany due in part to an absence of equivalent "Holocaust denial" legislation to criminalise such speech), but what is definitely true is that Japanese public awareness of crimes committed against Korea is much lower than it would be of the atrocities carried out in China. But yeah, "awful relations" is putting it lightly. According to a 2008 opinion poll, Koreans hold Japan in a more unfavourable light than North Korea. You know, the one that uses them for target practise?

North Italy's incompetence can be blamed on the Italian unification.[edit | hide]

South Italy's territory has been more or less the same since the end of the Roman Empire (he's basically Kingdom of Sicily/Naples/Two Sicilies who gained the territory of the Papal States, but they didn't fully merge - the Papal States still exists as the Vatican City). North Italy, however, is the result of a merging of Republic of Venice, Kingdom of Sardinia, Grand Duchy of Tuscany, Duchy of Modena, Duchy of Parma, and others. Canon has shown that the Republic of Venice was capable of kicking ass as a child. We've seen nothing of the rest of the north Italian states, however. It's likely that Sardinia & Co. we're incompetent cowards, and when they merged with Venice to form Italia Veneziano, the hetare of the many overpowered the Badass of the one.

Romano was always a crybaby, though.

And he's incompetent because Spain spoiled him rotten and allowed him to basically do nothing of value, which allowed him to grow into a whiny, useless adult.

It's already been stated that Germany may or may not be the Holy Roman Empire with memory loss. But Italy seems to have his share of missing memories as well. In particular, he seemed to really love the HRE and promised to wait for him forever, but in the modern strips, Italy seems to have no recollection of that promise. Or maybe he just instinctively senses that Germany is HRE?

I don't think he's neglecting it, with Germany at least... Italy's not flirting with Germany (we've seen Italy flirt with women before, and it doesn't look like what he does with Germany). Italy seems to just be a kind of goofy/touchy-feel-y personality with his friends; like one of those people who's a flirt without realizing it, simply because they're big on contact (he probably just refrains with Japan because of the initial reaction, whereas Germany is willing to play along). Italy, as seen in the Valentine comic, doesn't seem to be aware of his effect on Germany; in that even when presented with the other's feelings he can't understand what caused them. It's also probably due a lot to his being oblivious to cultural differences (such as red roses, and Valentine gifts at all, being only for serious lovers in Germany). Italy, there, makes several adamant decrees of love to Germany simply because he doesn't know what sorts of signals he's sending out; and likewise Germany misinterprets because he (despite his best efforts) doesn't understand the more lighthearted intentions that were behind them. Austria seems better attuned to Italy's culture; as he, when described the relationship which he initially deemed to be sexual (constant kissing, hugging, and sleeping naked together), quickly recanted his first statement when he realized that Germany was speaking about Italy. It stands to reason, as Austria spent a significantly greater amount of time with Italy than Germany (or HRE, for that matter) did. Or, going a slightly different way, maybe Italy's saving love/his virginity for HRE, but not denying himself anything beyond that? I'm more well-acquainted with literature than anything else, so I can only say that such a belief occurs quite frequently there at least. It wouldn't surprise me if it were also a common trait for anime.

Well Italy definitely remembers HRE at least (he says outright to Germany that his first love was another boy [2] it's about halfway down the page maybe?).

There is a scraped bit of strip showing France telling a grown Italy that HRE is dead and that he should forget about him. (Scroll down to see it.) By time he meets Germany he would be well aware that his first love is long gone so flirting with other people isn't all that strange.

I propose that EVERYONE has memory problems. If a nation goes through a major shift, then they change and lose memories of ever being different. This is illustrated in Raven Tears,(see Hetalia Fanfic Recs, General, towards the very bottom of that section) where Canada and America used to be darker, but as the land got taken over by Britain and France, they started looking more European, forgetting their own mother, and Canada started speaking only french and America started speaking only English (this is especially sad to me, because that means that they might not even know that they are brothers.)and that sort of thing used to be very, very common when there were still land wars, but in more modern times this specific type of amnesia doesn't affect anyone anymore, due to borders being kind of set in stone. France and England used to be Gaul and [whatever the British isles were before but I suck at history and don't know] and they can't remember. In the finale, it will be the end of time and everyone will remember everything. (I should probably put that as its own WMG)

Via Germania. Basically, England was first called England by the Anglo-Saxons who were Germanic, having invaded Britain after the Roman army abandoned it and at least partly ousted the native population. Arthur came into existence at the same time, eventually replacing his mother Britannia. Obviously, while he gets his hair color from Germania the eyebrows are from his mother's side. As for exactly what this makes them (cousins? half-siblings?) I'm not entirely sure.

England might also be the Italys' cousin, if Britannia (aka Roman Britain) was a new individual and not just the nation-tan of the original Celtic island with a change of name and stuck in Rome's house.

Well, English is classified as a Germanic language, so it makes sense that there was some intermingling of blood along the way.

English is a Germanic language. It's just that it had a healthy dose of French, Latin, and (believe it or not) mathematics that make it seem like it's something else.

You're leaving out a fair helping of Greek as well as whatever bits and pieces it finds useful from any other languages. I refers to English as the "cannibal language" for a reason.

If they aren't related, their royalty certainly is. The only reason we now have the House of Windsor was because dear King George V decided Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (which is Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha in German) was not a good name to have during the start of World War I, in which England and Germany were on opposite sides. So basically King George V gave a royal "f*ck you" to his cousin, Kaiser Wilhelm II, who was then king of Prussia and Germany at the time.

Going along with England being related to Germany via Germania, couldn't France also be related to them, seeing as how originally France was inhabited by the Franks after the fall of Rome, the Franks being a Germanic tribe. It's also called the "Frankish Kingdom" about the time of Charlemagne; I have no idea how to explain French being a Romanesque language.

Well, prior to the Franks moving into the area, it was called Gaul and was populated largely by Celts. It was conquered by Julius Ceasar some time in the 1st century B.C.E., and the Gauls over time adopted the Latin language as their own. When the Franks overran that area, their own language influenced the development of the modern French language but did not change the largely Latin roots. It's really quite similar to how Latin had an influence on English but could not change that it is, at its core, Germanic.

This troper has a crack theory. Ancient Britain/Britannia hated Rome's guts, but she, like her child(ren), was an alcoholic. She once got drunk with Rome. Nine months later, a tsundere with huge eyebrows was born. YES, ENGLAND IS THE ITALIES' UNCLE! Of course, this theory is total crack and should not be taken seriously.

Seems to be proven in the first episode of the anime. Germany distinctly said that there wouldn't be any talking about the war.

He only says anything to that effect in the dub.

Not so much anymore. Germany is moving towards a much more self-oriented stance than its had in the past few decades, and even actively trying to get rid of the non-Germans (or at least non-German culture) in the country.

I'm not seeing anything in those links (the unbroken ones, that is) that suggests Germany is actively seeking any sort of repatriation of the Gastarbeiter. Basically, the reports say that improvements need to be made. That's no secret. Virtually every European country could be doing a lot more to improve integration (speaking as a European). As for the outward migration of Turkish Germans, while I don't deny that xenophobia rears its ugly head all too often, I think the current trend may be related to the relative strengths of the German and Turkish economies - Turkey is averaging 9% GDP growth compared to Germany's 3%. All in all, many factors are in play, but to suggest that the Germans are actively trying to ethnically cleanse their country is ludicrous.

See here. Lithuania mentions that "You really helped us out before." While stationed in the Japanese Consulate in Lithuania, Sugihara issued thousands of visas to Jewish refugees, a large number of which were Polish (hence explaining Lithuania's plural), but his heroism went unrecognized in his home country for decades. Hence, Japan has no idea what Lithuania's talking about.

HRE and Germany are not the same person at all, except they have the same body.[edit | hide]

Prussia somehow manage to find HRE's dead body, and make it into the Germany we have now. (I guess we can say the 'soul' is different? )

This can also explain why Germany met Italy for the first time in WWI battle field, despite the two countries were allies before the war: Prussia deliberately arrange so, to avoid North Italy seeing a young Germany who was identical to Holy Roman Empire.

Hear me out. If it comes to it I don't think that Germany would agree that much with what his boss did and maybe eventually join the resistance, getting caught, and knowing that he couldn't kill his nation he imprisoned him instead.

Personally, I go with the theory that nation-tans don't know everything that their bosses get up to. I do agree that Germany does not seem like the kind of person who would go along with what was happening. And although I've never seen this before, I've seen stories where Prussia was imprisoned (usually without his brother's knowledge).

Germany=HRE, and Prussia, Austria and Hungary are the only ones who know.[edit | hide]

Basically, Germany/HRE is found by Prussia after the dismantling of the HRE by Napoleon. Prussia thinks "I'll just see how he is", but when Prussia discovers that G/HRE has no memories, he decides to adopt him as his little brother. He never tells Germany the truth, because there are a lot of people who'd be interested in finding and possibly hurting HRE. Everyone just assumes that HRE is dead (including Italy).

Hungary, Austria and Prussia are, of course, friends. When Hungary and Austria first see Chibigermany, they shit a brick as they recognise him. They demand an explanation from Prussia, who explains and asks them to help him protect Germany. They agree (Austria figuring that it'd be too much trouble if Germany knew, and Hungary recognising the possibilities of a happy reunion between Veneziano and Germany) and so Germany grew up with no knowledge of where he came from.

However, this won't last. Germany can tell that something's not quite right - he keeps having flashbacks, and he was older then most nations at his "birth"/first memory. He'll eventually ask Prussia what his deal is. As there's really no reason for anyone to want to hurt HRE/Germany any more, Prussia shows him a crate full of his old stuff, including the underwear/broom. The Underwear/broom that Chibitalia gave to HRE so that HRE could be reminded of Chibitalia, which will turn out to be a Chekhov's Gun as Germany's memories return. Cue epic-level freak-out from Germany as all his feelings for Italy come back in a rush.

Hungary, upon finding out, will go and get Italy, saying "Germany has something to tell you!" What follows will be a tearful and happy reunion between the two, along with one super-happy Yaoi Fangirl Hungarian and one seriously pissed off South Italian.

He always keeps his eyes closed because he can't stand bright light. This could be due to just having weak eyes, or it could be due to something that happened when he was Chibitalia. This is supported by the fact that the only two times that he's ever shown with them open (in the anime, at least) is for a moment in the first episode, which took place indoors, so he wouldn't have as much of a problem compared to direct sunlight, and in the latest (possibly last) episode, which was shown to be very cloudy and maybe about to rain. He probably got used to doing things with his eyes closed a very long time ago. The other Italians, like Romano and Seborga, could also have this issue, but not to the extent that Veneziano has.

There's all sorts of WMG about Germany having split personalities or not knowing what was happening in himself. My theory is that there was a Nazi Germany. A small child nation in a SS uniform, blond haired and blue eyed, possibly being brought up by Hitler. Germany knew about this, was aware that as the child grew he would die. The other nations may have smothered Nazi, or Hitler did before he killed himself.

Think about it; he's always going on about how old he feels, while China is much older (and Korea might be older too, anon's not sure) but still acts young. Feeling tired all the time, being reclusive (Hikikomori for two hundred years), rarely expressing emotion ...

Hm...I may be wrong here but, isn't "pretending that it happened to someone else" a certain self-defense against trauma? If so...then...ow. Please correct me if I'm wrong about this, as I am not well-versed in the subject.