This is a discussion on Why people act and react the way they do within the online poker forums, in the Learning Poker section; First I want to apologize to Ovitoo for posting in the middle of his thread. I also want to finish my thoughts on my hand.

First I want to apologize to Ovitoo for posting in the middle of his thread. I also want to finish my thoughts on my hand. The reason's it was easy to put my UTG on AA pre-flop was not only his or her min-raise in that position but the approach and thinking of his or her game.

The flop bet of the pot was how this confirmed to me he or she held AA. This was a perfect place to check if he or she was holding a set, this would allow anyone behind to bet, allowing UTG to check-raise any bet. Instead he or she bet pot denying odds of a draw hand staying in the hand and inviting anyone who hit the board to go over the top, this is why I stayed with AA and did not adjust on the flop because of the pot sized bet that an over pair to the board would make.

The next person to act, who was setting in the next seat to the left re-raised all in and preflop I had him or her on a draw. I was worried about two pair (they actually had Qc, 10s) more than a person hitting a set with KK or JJ because they would have re-raised in that spot to eliminate the rest of the field and to get the UTG heads up and at that point I would have folded pre-flop. If he or she had 33 and hit a set on the Kd, Js, 3c flop then god bless them.

So, I stayed with my original thought of a draw hand and called his or her all in. I take this approach everyday on putting people on an exact hand, even when I am not in the hand I still put others on hands and even say what they will bet on each street. However, I can only use the information I see at showdown the rest I do not consider it would assuming what he or she had. I go through this process for every hand and always adjust if I need to when something does not make sense by a persons action at the table.

In conclusion, to give a little background on this process, when I first started doing this I had to understand what people valued when entering a hand, position, and a starting range of hands. The more experience and confidence I obtained the easier this was to do. As time went along putting a person on a hand was not what I had envisioned however, I began to understand people and identifying their leaks that I could exploit given the right situation was easier than putting them on an exact hand. Putting a person on a hand pre-flop also helps me recognize when I am beat as well as when I am ahead. I am currently going to college to achieve a bachelors degree in the science of psychology. Since I was already playing poker and training in this particular aspect of poker, psychology seemed to be a natural fit. The understanding of human behavior, ego's and personalities has helped me in understanding my opponents.

#2

12th October 2012, 2:44 AM

gus201 [195]

Poker at: none

Game: Hold'em

This is interesting STL , how do you know what players will act like or react like when you enter a hand . Some thing Id like to know . Does this help when you play against players and not having to worry about what you hold for cards ?
Is this another way of getting some ones chips or possibly their stack with a better understanding of some players play (or act or react to you) .

Doesnt your math come into play , or the value of your starting hand help here in these spots ?

One quick question too isnt it better to have a system or a chart on how to play others better off for you to gather chips , does math help make your decisions here too ?

I see a lot of of the numbers being thrown a round here on this forum and am just curious here .

#3

12th October 2012, 3:00 AM

Scourrge [6,263]

Online Poker at: Bovada

Game: Hold'em

Quote:

Originally Posted by STL420

First I want to apologize to Ovitoo for posting in the middle of his thread. I also want to finish my thoughts on my hand. The reason's it was easy to put my UTG on AA pre-flop was not only his or her min-raise in that position but the approach and thinking of his or her game.

Just a heads-up: You're probably about to get torn apart for posting this... Hope you realize it and don't care.

I will say one thing only. If you are playing against people and know what their cards are based on preflop action, they are EXTREMELY BAD.

If I min-raise preflop from utg, all you know is that I'm holding 2 cards that are most likely in the top 15% of hands. That's because I (and any competent player) have a balance to my preflop actions such that it is LITERALLY impossible to put me on a certain hand from one action.

#4

12th October 2012, 3:06 AM

gus201 [195]

Poker at: none

Game: Hold'em

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scourrge

Just a heads-up: You're probably about to get torn apart for posting this... Hope you realize it and don't care.

I will say one thing only. If you are playing against people and know what their cards are based on preflop action, they are EXTREMELY BAD.

If I min-raise preflop from utg, all you know is that I'm holding 2 cards that are most likely in the top 15% of hands. That's because I (and any competent player) have a balance to my preflop actions such that it is LITERALLY impossible to put me on a certain hand from one action.

Just curious here why would he get torn up ? Is this what CC is all about ?
if a player or member posts some thing is he/she suppose to get torn up in these threads ?

#5

12th October 2012, 3:13 AM

Scourrge [6,263]

Online Poker at: Bovada

Game: Hold'em

What he's saying is ridiculous.

And on top of that he's extending a conversation (that wasn't particularly friendly) from another thread unnecessarily.

f) people flat you with crap and check/fold a ton of flops.
g) people dont understand pot odds or equity
h) min raisers dont always have AA,

#10

12th October 2012, 3:48 AM

duggs [9,065]

the thought process unfortunately goes more along the lines off.

make a terrible call preflop with next to no equity
consider folding the effective nuts
cooler a guy who played his hand correctly.

sorry man but no part of this hand is good and you are misinforming people by saying so, if you assigned them a narrow range preflop exploit them by folding everything worse than QQ. not by flatting ATC and hoping to flop the world.

#11

12th October 2012, 3:52 PM

STL420 [18]

Online Poker at: Iron Duke

Game: Texas Holdem

Thanks for the comments, the two opponents I was up against I knew their play better than themselves but from any two other opponents at the table in this same situation would have meant something completely different. Also I know it does not always mean my opponent is holding AA but in this situation I knew it did. When my opponents min-raise with worse starting hands then I have a greater advantage against them, this means they have a worse leak in their game.

My play has nothing to do with equity and pot odds but rather what I need to beat my opponents. I was not talking to anyone here about poker or anyone to take my advice because I was just posting honest thoughts about what I see at the tables. This situation against anyone here in this forum would be different because for one I have not played against anyone here and the people here seem to have more intelligence.

In conclusion, since people seem to think this impossible I will give some more information. The person who has helped train me, plays $3/$6 limit live for a living and has recently won 40k in a live tournament doing this exact process that he has taught me (free of charge). His skills are way beyond mine and I aspire to be as good as him one day. The reality of putting people on hands does exist even if it does not exist in anybody's game that I play against or do not play against.

I realize it is a wrong thing to do, so I don't do it all the time. But I take a different view of the game. If I wanted to play a perfectly mathematical game, I would just buy a bot and watch it play. But the unexpected is what excites most of us, and learning how to deal with the unexpected, as well as produce the unexpected is what keeps us interested.

#17

12th October 2012, 5:59 PM

Scourrge [6,263]

Online Poker at: Bovada

Game: Hold'em

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj11

I call with junk on occasion hoping to flop the world..........

I realize it is a wrong thing to do, so I don't do it all the time. But I take a different view of the game. If I wanted to play a perfectly mathematical game, I would just buy a bot and watch it play. But the unexpected is what excites most of us, and learning how to deal with the unexpected, as well as produce the unexpected is what keeps us interested.

You call with junk on occasion when stacks are deep enough that it's only a (mathematically) small mistake...

I believe the discussion in the original thread was about shorter-stacked play. Ie you are never flatting preflop with junk when your stack is 30bb. Or at least you shouldn't.