I think that the issue with Patire is that HE encouraged people to question the authenticity of instructors, but then refused to provide any sort of valid reference to that poster or one that was supposedly one of his students.

Whether Patire's 'style' is any good, is besides the point. It was the possibility that he had lied about his background. His replies never answered the questions and the more his background is scrutinized, the easier it is to see that he might very well be lying.

If you recall, there was a fairly effective self-defense program (forgot the name) for women, that was started by a guy that was found out to be a complete fake AND a criminal. The principles behind the program were sound (though not unique), but he had lied about his background and his credentials. After the truth was discovered, the women left the organization and started their own program, which does very well.

sheol,I'm not defending Tom's background because I am not an expert on it.I do know however that a style called Hom-Do exists and is very effective for self defense.If u read the other posts on this forum by(mike or "me") he puts it down ,read more hom-do,and a article i wrote for this site.

I am a relative beginner in the world or martial arts. However, the martial arts that i have learned at mr. Patire's hom-do school and one of his students schools (ninja boy) have proven to be exceptionally effective on the street against bigger and stronger opponents.

Asking someone politely about their martial art lineage is one thing. However calling a man a fraud is another. Those who claim Mr. Patire or the Hom-do system to be a fraud should certainly get a hands on demonstration before they speak any further.

I don't need to read his post Mike.All I need to do is read yours,u called him a fraud-I know he is the real thing.You said he lied about teaching police and federal agents-right there I know you're wrong.u seem to have a hard on for him,trying to discredit him.Why?