I know it's only January but United Airlines Mainline flights gained 1.9% while Southwest gained 10.4%, United with United Express included gained 4.9% in Passenger numbers.If you count Mainline flights only then Southwest already has more customers in January than United had 1,436,392 vs 1,384,664 but with United Express United totaled 1,972,006 pax

What would happen if/when at this rate Southwest overtakes United as the busiest carrier at Denver Airport? Anything?

UA's codeshare and Star Alliance partners AC, CM, and LH all have nonstop flights to DEN, and AC, CM, and LH can connect passengers onto UA flights to other UA destinations in the U.S. at DEN. UA can also connect passengers onto AC, CM, and LH flights at DEN.

The market will still be there for a UA hub operation at DEN, even if WN overtakes UA at DEN, since UA has nonstop service to domestic destinations not served by WN from its DEN hub and since UA can connect passengers to international destinations that WN does not serve at DEN.

Last edited by jplatts on Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

WN has already overtaken UA on many routes IND/STL/BNA/BWI/MKE/MCI/ABQ?/PHX/etc., and overall, in terms of capacity and local traffic. UA serves more destinations and more international destinations, and is trying to make a comeback, recently declaring that DEN along with ORD and IAH, would be its three focuses for growth. While I'd like to see UA pull ahead and turn DEN into its version of ATL, with 50% capacity growth already rumored/stated by Scott Kirby, I think WN will continue to grow as well, making it hard for them. DEN is profitable for UA (the most profitable hub at UA according to Scott)Kirby: 3 UA Mid-Continent Hubs are Where the Growth Ishttp://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1391543&p=20327999&hilit=united+airlines#p20327999

FSDan wrote:

UA finalized their June schedules about two weeks ago (I've been watching closely over the past month or two), and there are lots of cool upgauges throughout the system. I think the following mainline additions are noteworthy (some may have been this way for a little while or are seasonal resumptions, but they stuck out in my mind as routes that have very recently been all or mostly RJs):

Doesn't UAL still hold a yield advantage? And who cares what percent of the total market you have if you are leading in the revenue side of things? Didn't testosterone markers like number of flights/size of planes keep the industry in a tailspin for a couple of decades?

From what I can tell, UAL has quite a few markets to increase frequency on if they can (a) figure out more banks at DEN and (b) get the aircraft to do it with.

Since I have to drive 3 - 4 hours for the closest WN flight vs. 18 minutes for the closest UAL flight...guess which one earns my business and my $$?

All of Denver would be sucked into a black hole formed by the singularity created once UA is surpassed. Colorado would implode, causing a massive seismic shift that causes Yellowstone to erupt, forever ending the United States of America as the country is buried in 10 meters of ash.

In all seriousness, not much would change, except that a new leader would be present in the DEN airport and UA would feel pretty salty.

As long as UA isn’t bleeding money in DEN, which according to Kirby that’s not the case, it wouldn’t really result in any negative change. They may even be more aggressive in competing with WN.

DEN is a multi hub city. It has been for a long time, and it’s growing which means that only becomes more feasible. WN and UA can have large hubs here simoultaneously, especially if F9 keeps doing what they’re doing.

"you don't know what you're talking about." (Let me guess, you're single?)I do know what I will put up with...as an A-List member and frequent traveler I choose WN yes, because of their high frequencies. But when UA has a comparable departure time I will fly them and happily enjoy E+. Other FF's may be fine endurinig over 90 minute discomfort, not me.

"you don't know what you're talking about." (Let me guess, you're single?)I do know what I will put up with...as an A-List member and frequent traveler I choose WN yes, because of their high frequencies. But when UA has a comparable departure time I will fly them and happily enjoy E+. Other FF's may be fine endurinig over 90 minute discomfort, not me.

Your individual preference is not representative of the population. You are making a claim that is verifiably wrong.

I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.

"you don't know what you're talking about." (Let me guess, you're single?)I do know what I will put up with...as an A-List member and frequent traveler I choose WN yes, because of their high frequencies. But when UA has a comparable departure time I will fly them and happily enjoy E+. Other FF's may be fine endurinig over 90 minute discomfort, not me.

Your individual preference is not representative of the population. You are making a claim that is verifiably wrong.

My individual preference is not representative of the population? Thank you! Mom was right, I am special!

While cal & Dfw are busy exchanging pleasantries, I shall attempt to steer this thread back on course.

xjetflyer2001 wrote:

What would happen if/when at this rate Southwest overtakes United as the busiest carrier at Denver Airport? Anything?

Nothing, really. Maybe I could see United attempting something like the TORQUE program that they had back in the 1980s when they were putting the screws to Frank Lorenzo's Continental over at Stapleton. But, it's an entirely different world today. And, while Frontier is but a shadow of its former DEN self, the current incarnation of Frontier has a very loyal following in & around the Mile High City, and that will continue.

Seriously? Unless you’re a true UA FF — and weee talking about a percentage of the population that’s in the single digits — you ain’t going anywheee for a long, long time. And beyond that, you’ve been reading too much FlyerTalk - the average family is more concerned about getting to Grandma’s or takinf a trip to Disney World than they are flyingTo Asia..

Lets remember Frontier gave back gates which allowed Delta to move into A, and Southwest to gain more and control all of C. That was a really needed move for Southwest. They will continue to need more gates, but that really helped.

Will Denver be a two hub airport YES. But both airlines do lots of connections so its not a really a problem its a huge transfer operation for both. O&D is the gravy on top but both can make money there. Its not big enough for three hubs but that is old news. Who is one versus two is not a metric either airline cares about its making money that matters, they are both large.

Seriously? Unless you’re a true UA FF — and weee talking about a percentage of the population that’s in the single digits — you ain’t going anywheee for a long, long time. And beyond that, you’ve been reading too much FlyerTalk - the average family is more concerned about getting to Grandma’s or takinf a trip to Disney World than they are flyingTo Asia..

Well, Ok... Grandma's... Disney...got it. International air travel? Wow! What was I thinking? ... Luv it!

Last edited by 739er on Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:09 pm, edited 4 times in total.

A few things to this discussion:1) Both UA and WN plan aggressive international and domestic expansions of their Denver hub. 2) Denver is adding a massive amount of gates to keep up with the demand. Each concourse will be fully built out within the next 6-7 years, plus the main terminal is being expanded with a new security configuration.3) Denver itself is growing, which is part of the driving force. 4) It remains to be seen if the international growth will continue, or can be continued given Norwegians health, and the large growth of other carriers (particularly European). It's worth nothing that mos to of the international grown is _not_ UA.

An abject failure to understand the data. You are not including United Express.

I understand the data, thank you. You are correct about UAX...and, I did that ON PURPOSE. That is how airports report traffic data. Airports have separate contracts with regionals on rent, leases, fees, etc.They report regional traffic as separate.

Well, Ok... Grandma's... Disney...got it. International air travel? Wow! What was I thinking? ... Luv it!

In 20 years, when you collect enough UA miles to fly international business, be sure to write a trip report about it!!!

It's really not that difficult. My next trip on UA is a paid J ticket on the company dime to Asia which will earn me 40,500 award miles. The trip after that is 7,400 miles--that's for a domestic flight. A one way saver ticket to Europe in J is 60k so I'm basically there; I got 4 saver tickets last year to Europe so they're not that hard to find if you know what you're doing. If you have a Chase card, you can get the 60k just with purchases.

It's no wonder airlines are upping the prices for award tickets since they give out miles like candy. And UA FF's in hub cities like Denver know it too; why do you think it's near impossible to get a complimentary upgrade these days? I know 1Ks who upgrade every flight over a couple of hours using their miles simply because they earn so many per trip, it's stupid to take a chance on a CPU.

WN has already overtaken UA on many routes IND/STL/BNA/BWI/MKE/MCI/ABQ?/PHX/etc., and overall, in terms of capacity and local traffic.

Also replaced UA entirely on DEN-OAK

They didn't replace UA at Oakland. UA pulled out of OAK over some "Dingbat" reason about the Terminal upgrades they weren't going to get!!. A LOT of us UAL'ers were hacked off about it too !! But it is what it is..

Well, Ok... Grandma's... Disney...got it. International air travel? Wow! What was I thinking? ... Luv it!

In 20 years, when you collect enough UA miles to fly international business, be sure to write a trip report about it!!!

It's really not that difficult. My next trip on UA is a paid J ticket on the company dime to Asia...

Yes, it is that difficult. What percentage of the population do you believe travels on company-paid international business? I’d bet it’s in the low single digits. For those people, MP may be the other program. To everyone else, RR is certainly worthy.

BTW, I travel several times a year in company-paid international business, and the last place I’d ever spend my miles on is international business. I like to spend my vacations traveling to or with family.

My whole point is in response to the implied assertion that only a fool would choose RR — for many people, it’s a better program than MP.

UA seems to always be trying to fight back at hubs like DEN, LAX, ORD, and IAD. I find it surprising they fly out of LGA at all, especially LGA-MTJ.

Concur that UA will do fine in DEN but not sure how they expect more growth from a city that's already overserved for its size (DEN is the 4th largest airport in the US by passenger numbers but not even in the Top 10 largest metro areas).

UA seems to always be trying to fight back at hubs like DEN, LAX, ORD, and IAD. I find it surprising they fly out of LGA at all, especially LGA-MTJ.

Concur that UA will do fine in DEN but not sure how they expect more growth from a city that's already overserved for its size (DEN is the 4th largest airport in the US by passenger numbers but not even in the Top 10 largest metro areas).

That is a Saturday only flight in ski season and i think its revenue guaranteed by Telluride Resort. Its basically easy money and United is the largest carrier at that airport, so it makes sense for them to fly it.

What I love about WN is the high frequency, flexiblity, what I dont like is lack of premium product like domestic first class. However WN knows what works for them, I know what I want - so they are no longer my preferred carrier

WN has already overtaken UA on many routes IND/STL/BNA/BWI/MKE/MCI/ABQ?/PHX/etc., and overall, in terms of capacity and local traffic.

Also replaced UA entirely on DEN-OAK

They didn't replace UA at Oakland. UA pulled out of OAK over some "Dingbat" reason about the Terminal upgrades they weren't going to get!!. A LOT of us UAL'ers were hacked off about it too !! But it is what it is..

How’s that not replacing? UA used to fly DEN-OAK, then WN started, then UA pulled out. Maybe displaced is more precise but “replace” is also clearly correct.

UA seems to always be trying to fight back at hubs like DEN, LAX, ORD, and IAD. I find it surprising they fly out of LGA at all, especially LGA-MTJ.

Concur that UA will do fine in DEN but not sure how they expect more growth from a city that's already overserved for its size (DEN is the 4th largest airport in the US by passenger numbers but not even in the Top 10 largest metro areas).

DEN is not served based on its metro size, but its geographic location. It's centrally located in the western US, which is growing very fast.

DEN is not served based on its metro size, but its geographic location. It's centrally located in the western US, which is growing very fast.

In addition, DEN's remote geographic location helps make O&D demand for air travel strong for the population base. Similarly, PHL (where people can easily drive to major cities) is weakened by this effect.

........How is the airfield doing with all this traffic? The train is getting pretty full.

Yup, and no plans to fix that, that the city has mentioned. Iv'e said it before, they blew it when the didn't do it Atlanta style giving you the option to walk. Denver should be out there boring a new route as we type.