I mean, I get that they're trying to come off as deep, metaphorical, whatever, but I don't see how anyone could think that they'll get their point across that way in a fact-based discussion.

Really, reading him it is hard to decide between:(1) English is not their Native Language(2) Attempting to sound "deep"(3) Nuts(4) Poe

Because of the weird, vauge, and disjointed way he writes.

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An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

I'd say three is the most likely. He doesn't seem to actually make the same mistakes that a non-english speaker would make. And if he were trying to sound deep, no one could fail at it as hard as he does. Three is the most likely, with a likely mixture of lack of education.

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"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.Spartan Reply: If.

He's a preaching lunatic, nothing can be discussed with him because he doesn't want to actually discuss both view-points. It's more than clear that he just wants (wishes really) to make us think and then convert to his OneTrueReligionToRuleThemAlltm.

Hey SOI, did you read that? Unless you are interested in discussing both view-points, you aren't gonna get anywhere. And look, despite you being the way you are, no one ever wanted you banned, nor shunned, nor silenced, otherwise the Mods/Admins would have done something.

So, it's either you come back here and keep posting (whether inappropriate or not), or you take the action to simply leave the forum. Your choice really, Oh, Chosen Onetm

Just a bit of an observation... Is it just me, or does everyone who comes here to preach have an extremely strange way of communicating. Things like "Can you not see it", "We would cherish each other and you would see my walk", etc. I can't even begin to take this guy seriously.

That comes from two things. First, many of the preachy types go for the King James bible. It was written at the very start of the 17th century. For reference, Shakespeare died a couple years after the KJV was completed. So when the preachy types go into evangelical mode, they borrow language from the KJV and, as a result, come off sounding like Mercutio or Laertes. They mistake archaic language for high falutin', the pretentious gits.

The other contributing factor is they also like to borrow from the "prophetic" parts of the NT. Those parts are vague, mystical sounding paradoxes which sound deep superficially[1] but are really meaningless. Yoda speaks similarly, but actually makes more sense. It makes up a sort of secret, coded language for those in the know. Right wing politicians use this kind of language all the time to appeal to the loonies without the moderates knowing what they are actually promising.

Just a bit of an observation... Is it just me, or does everyone who comes here to preach have an extremely strange way of communicating. Things like "Can you not see it", "We would cherish each other and you would see my walk", etc. I can't even begin to take this guy seriously.

That comes from two things. First, many of the preachy types go for the King James bible. It was written at the very start of the 17th century. For reference, Shakespeare died a couple years after the KJV was completed. So when the preachy types go into evangelical mode, they borrow language from the KJV and, as a result, come off sounding like Mercutio or Laertes. They mistake archaic language for high falutin', the pretentious gits.

The other contributing factor is they also like to borrow from the "prophetic" parts of the NT. Those parts are vague, mystical sounding paradoxes which sound deep superficially[1] but are really meaningless. Yoda speaks similarly, but actually makes more sense. It makes up a sort of secret, coded language for those in the know. Right wing politicians use this kind of language all the time to appeal to the loonies without the moderates knowing what they are actually promising.

Right wing politicians use this kind of language all the time to appeal to the loonies without the moderates knowing what they are actually promising.

I wouldn't put that ONLY on the right. A lot of left wing politiocos have learned that trick long ago, but instead of sprinkling a pepper shaker full of "Home, Family, Nation, Values, Faith, Security, Prosperity" over their speech like the right; they use the salt shaker of "Progress, Integrity, Justice, Equality, Hope, Together, Forward."

Just because I generally agree with the left doesn't mean I can't see a tactic when I see it.

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An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

I'd say three is the most likely. He doesn't seem to actually make the same mistakes that a non-english speaker would make. And if he were trying to sound deep, no one could fail at it as hard as he does. Three is the most likely, with a likely mixture of lack of education.

Interesting.....that I would not get away with this abusive treatment to another. Also that I am being psycho-analyzed by all of you has if I am being deceived.

None of you know the first thing or have predicted anything correct about me, except that I believe in the One God.

An earlier post stated that they must be convinced of a god with their mind. Many of the predictions about man and their hate for the Chosen One are being fufilled, and no, I do not mean end times.

If prophecy was on trial here, many items in the Bible would be admissable (and no, I don't mean end times.)

Look at our current era. With all this new knowledge, why are things escalating from bad to worse? We are more intelligent than ever?

Are we better when we set our minds/laws apart from the Hebrew God? True, pure, and gracious religon.

None of you know the first thing or have predicted anything correct about me, except that I believe in the One God.

Are we better when we set our minds/laws apart from the Hebrew God? True, pure, and gracious religon.

-Raises hand-

Mr. SOI, what about the other gods who claim to be true as well? Hindus believe their gods to be the One True gods! And they look cool! Like Vishnu, he's all blue and stuff, and he has multiple avatars, and he is REALLY cool! And the Inca pantheon, too; I have distant relatives that still believe in the Sun God, the Earth God, the Moon God, etc... They look really cool, too! Why aren't they true, sir? -Tugs at sleeve-

Mr. SOI, what about the other gods who claim to be true as well? Hindus believe their gods to be the One True gods! And they look cool! Like Vishnu, he's all blue and stuff, and he has multiple avatars, and he is REALLY cool! And the Inca pantheon, too; I have distant relatives that still believe in the Sun God, the Earth God, the Moon God, etc... They look really cool, too! Why aren't they true, sir? -Tugs at sleeve-

[/quote]

I've read a post of yours before, you are a former believer.

I guess here is a reponse for you. The biggest rub that other religons have with the Hebrew God is that he is the arrogant one. He claims it all. Creation (of good and evil), Judgement (Now and the future), Love (in spite of his wrath, ready to forgive if you return to Him).

All those other Gods/religon don't like you, have no witnesses, or believe in jihad (your present destruction, now, in this present day by the hands of their followers).

No doubt you will claim that Christians are guilty of the same murder. But not any true follower

Huh? There are OneTrueChristianstm? Since when? And who are they, in your book? There are more than 30,000 Christian denominations alone. And many hate each other. And I asked you about the other gods. How are they "not there"? They have just as much proof as your god. The Hindus have the Vedas, the Bhagavad Gita, etc, all holy books that show proof like your god, YHWH, does. So again, why are they not the one true gods?

An earlier post stated that they must be convinced of a god with their mind. Many of the predictions about man and their hate for the Chosen One are being fufilled, and no, I do not mean end times.

Which predictions? Can you articulate what they are and how they are being fulfilled? See how this works is that you have to actually back up what you say. This is one of the reasons that you're being dismissed as clearly crazy. Do you actually know what these prophecies are? Actually a better question is have you ever actually read the book? Or did you just do the cliff note thing?

If prophecy was on trial here, many items in the Bible would be admissable (and no, I don't mean end times.)

Like what? Which prophecies? Why would it be admissable? Actually, another much better question. Are you capable of stringing together more than one sentence? Is that why you have so much trouble supporting yourself?

Look at our current era. With all this new knowledge, why are things escalating from bad to worse? We are more intelligent than ever?

Are we better when we set our minds/laws apart from the Hebrew God? True, pure, and gracious religon.

Mindless rambling/preaching, not to mention nonsensical. As for setting our minds apart from god. Let's see, ever since we started kicking god to the curb we got the Enlightenment, got rid of witch trials and Crusades, started travelling to the moon and investigating other planets, made cheez in a spray can. And God got us...........huh, what exactly did god get us?

Your turn, Crazy Man.

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"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.Spartan Reply: If.

They also stole prophecies from other faiths. Two-thirds of Revelations is cribbed from the Zoroastrian story of the end times. I wonder how he feels knowing that his god is a plagerer.

Let's not forget that they could not even get all the prophecies right.

The most important OT prophecies about what defines the messiah have not been fulfilled (like the messiah being a worldly king, a human (not a divine avatar), a descendant of the line of David and oh, his name will be Immanuel).

The "prophecies" that Christians say have been fulfilled are actually no prophecies at all. If you go back and actually read the surrounding text, there's often nothing at all marking that those as a special prophecy. Not to mention that those passages often contain dozens more "prophecies" that are never mentioned because they don't get mentioned as fulfilled in the NT.

An earlier post stated that they must be convinced of a god with their mind. Many of the predictions about man and their hate for the Chosen One are being fufilled, and no, I do not mean end times.

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Which predictions? Can you articulate what they are and how they are being fulfilled? See how this works is that you have to actually back up what you say. This is one of the reasons that you're being dismissed as clearly crazy. Do you actually know what these prophecies are? Actually a better question is have you ever actually read the book? Or did you just do the cliff note thing?

If prophecy was on trial here, many items in the Bible would be admissable (and no, I don't mean end times.)

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Like what? Which prophecies? Why would it be admissable? Actually, another much better question. Are you capable of stringing together more than one sentence? Is that why you have so much trouble supporting yourself?

This Bible verse is in response to your post. I keep telling you about your "nature." Your appetitte. And this is in response. This is not preaching Mods, but a rebuttal in our trial case .1 John 4:6 We are from God; he who knows God listens to us; he who is not from God does not listen to us By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

You don't understand me, and it seems as though God was ahead of the curve centuries before any analytical psychiatrists of today?

Now I realize that I am speaking to very insightful people, ones who I have read the Bible and "know more scripture than me." (If this were of the Truth) For knowing scripture, is seeking from a pure heart from the One who knows man's heart and mind (motives). In order for scripture to "work/be real (for the lack of a better term)", from a supernatural god, you have to be honest.

Could it be that your eyes are not opened, because of whats really going on inside?

Surely now you will tell me this is not the case, and the first liar doesn't stand a chance.

Alzael said:Are you capable of stringing together more than one sentence? Is that why you have so much trouble supporting yourself?

P.S. So what if I answer in one sentence or 100? Are we resorting to 3rd grade insults?

Remember, the one key to being an atheist is that you humans came to the knowledge of moral excellence i.e. no lying, no murdering etc., on their own. Without God's laws. And are headed down a road of continous evolutionary paths, unafraid of Sheol.

They also stole prophecies from other faiths. Two-thirds of Revelations is cribbed from the Zoroastrian story of the end times. I wonder how he feels knowing that his god is a plagerer.

Let's not forget that they could not even get all the prophecies right.

The most important OT prophecies about what defines the messiah have not been fulfilled (like the messiah being a worldly king, a human (not a divine avatar), a descendant of the line of David and oh, his name will be Immanuel).

The "prophecies" that Christians say have been fulfilled are actually no prophecies at all. If you go back and actually read the surrounding text, there's often nothing at all marking that those as a special prophecy. Not to mention that those passages often contain dozens more "prophecies" that are never mentioned because they don't get mentioned as fulfilled in the NT.

You are correct. The Messiah would be a human, not a man god. No trinitarian god.

Remember, the one key to being an atheist is that you humans came to the knowledge of moral excellence i.e. no lying, no murdering etc., on their own. Without God's laws. And are headed down a road of continous evolutionary paths, unafraid of Sheol.

Hoo boy. SOI, if you can't get this right... the definitive "key" to being an atheist is that one lacks belief in a god or gods.

We're a pretty fractious, diverse bunch, otherwise. Politically, socially, all the rest of it. But that's the key concept, right there.

The rest you pretty much nailed. Most atheists don't go around murdering, etc. on our own. We do just fine without an imaginary being's "laws". Our own consciences and the laws of our various societies are adequate guides, for the most part.

I don't have a clue what you mean by "continous evolutionary paths", but yeah, no atheist I've ever met is afraid of hell.

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Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.--Marcus Aurelius

Could it be that your eyes are not opened, because of whats really going on inside?

Surely now you will tell me this is not the case, and the first liar doesn't stand a chance.

I will stand up here and take a risk that SOI will accuse Me of lying.

Between the ages of 6 and 7, I read an illustrated version of the Bible cover-to-cover... Several times. If ever there was a chance that My eyes could have been "opened" to the alleged truth of the Bible, that would have been the time for your invisible friend to work his magic.

SOI, it had the exact opposite effect. By the time I was 7½ years old I had seen through the artifice of organized religion and had publicly stated something to the effect of "Stories of Hell would be a really good way to keep a group of people under control."

And at no time in My 53+ years have I believed in the god of the Bible.

I've continued to read the Bible intermittently over the years. In My eyes, "opened" or not, it simply doesn't deliver. It's valuable primarily as a piece of historical literature, and heavily derivative literature at that. It's not particularly original, and it certainly isn't a good source of either history or moral instruction. I'm quite convinced that it was neither written by nor inspired by a god.

My disbelief is just that -- Disbelief. I see no evidence for the god of the Bible.

(chalks Her hands and takes a couple of practice swings with Her Clue-By-Four™) So, tell Me, SOI... What do *you* think is "really going on inside"?

Huh? There are OneTrueChristianstm? Since when? And who are they, in your book? There are more than 30,000 Christian denominations alone. And many hate each other. And I asked you about the other gods. How are they "not there"? They have just as much proof as your god. The Hindus have the Vedas, the Bhagavad Gita, etc, all holy books that show proof like your god, YHWH, does. So again, why are they not the one true gods?

You still didn't answer the above question, SOI. Are you really that weak in your faith that you won't answer?

Side-note: No Atheist is afraid of hell, nor do they think about heaven. They are fictitious. And so is Satan, just like YHWH. We don't believe in anything in your religion, including all the other religions out there in the world. What's so hard to get?

1 John 4:6 We are from God; he who knows God listens to us; he who is not from God does not listen to us By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

You don't understand me, and it seems as though God was ahead of the curve centuries before any analytical psychiatrists of today?

But this was already dealt with. You interpret this as a successful prophesy by the bible. I read it as saying "and some people will not share your faith and be critical of it - by this sign we can recognize them as being wrong."

This is believers being exhorted not to listen to unbelievers. There is not a hint in here of any actual prediction - except the prediction that some people will read the bible and say "this makes no sense!" which is not much of a prediction at all, unless you count the prediction "And SOI will not change his/her mind because of this" as an accurate prophesy and proof of universal wisdom.

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Now I realize that I am speaking to very insightful people, ones who I have read the Bible and "know more scripture than me." (If this were of the Truth) For knowing scripture, is seeking from a pure heart from the One who knows man's heart and mind (motives). In order for scripture to "work/be real (for the lack of a better term)", from a supernatural god, you have to be honest.

What are you saying? That someone who reads the same text and comes to a different conclusion is a liar? Or is it (as I suspect) that your point is that one should read the Bible as if it were the Word of God, and that if you do so, you will believe it is the Word of God? I always find this problematical, as it required me to believe first, and then read the text that is then used to prove that there is something to believe in in the first place. It seems like putting the horse before the cart.

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Could it be that your eyes are not opened, because of whats really going on inside?

I can say the same of you - could it be that you do not believe the objections to Christianity are valid because of your bias?Prediction from Viv the prophet: you will say no.

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Surely now you will tell me this is not the case, and the first liar doesn't stand a chance.

What do you mean by the second part of your sentence? What liar are you referring to?

« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 05:27:33 AM by Vivisectus »

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It is a foine loine between a poirate and a farrrmer. Oi stand astroid that foine loine.

It is difficult to understand what you are saying without some context. Right now we are forced to make assumptions about what you mean in part because we have no context and in part because you are just giving us sound bites. I would like to give you a couple of friendly suggestions.

First, go to the Introductions area and formally introduce yourself. Tell us a little about yourself and your religious background. There is no debate allowed in that area.

Next, go to the Testimonials area and explain what you believe. It would be educational if you also explained why you believe it. Debate is permitted there, so expect to have your beliefs examined and challenged.

Last, when you make posts, include more explanation. You came in sounding like a Pentecostal on LSD. Now you are sounding kind of jewy. Suffice it to say, I am confused about what exactly it is you believe and I am sure I speak for others on that.

This confusion makes discussion difficult. When you talk about believing in "the One God", that doesn't really narrow it down. There are lots of "One, True Gods". Is that the jewish, xian or islamic version of the one God? Or is that what hindus call "Brahman"? It is important that all parties involved are on the same page. Unless you give us a more complete explanation about what you are saying, you force us to make assumptions, and that rarely works to anyone's benefit. It usually ends up in pissing matches and I would sincerely like to avoid that.

I'd say three is the most likely. He doesn't seem to actually make the same mistakes that a non-english speaker would make. And if he were trying to sound deep, no one could fail at it as hard as he does. Three is the most likely, with a likely mixture of lack of education.

Interesting.....that I would not get away with this abusive treatment to another. Also that I am being psycho-analyzed by all of you has if I am being deceived.

None of you know the first thing or have predicted anything correct about me, except that I believe in the One God.

An earlier post stated that they must be convinced of a god with their mind. Many of the predictions about man and their hate for the Chosen One are being fufilled, and no, I do not mean end times.

I didn't write it out, but I internally predicted that after you ignored multiple postd from me asking you direct questiions that this post would get a response of "how dare you analyze me" More or less, I was write.

Do you even understand you speak in vague, even pretentious, phrases when asked direct questions?

Again I reiterate: When someone claims something miraculous not within the parameters of Christianity, why do you apply a different standard of proof than you do for miraculous claims within the parameters of Christianity?

Answer that question in direct, simple, and clear terms.

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An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.