TruckinMack, I don't see the majority of Lionbacker being hostile. Quite the opposite. And honestly, if you preface a thread with "racist" - I'd hope you realize that is going to create an emotional response in some.

You are correct Pablo. In reviewing the responses, only BS has been rudely, emotionally hostile. Con2 at worst was somewhat peevish. For that I owe the majority of Lionbacker an apology and a thanks. You've kept the discussion civil.

BS. You can eat a penis.

BTW: I find it especially amusing that no one except BS was willing to take the bet, likely because everyone else thought that, indeed, Caldwell was about to hire a Black OC.

Pablo wrote:

Sorry if I didn't support the conclusion you were jumping too, but his past and present moves all support the thinking contrary to what you proposed and I based my thinking on empirical evidence rather than some lose threads of conjuncture you were trying to connect to support your potential "racist" claims. If that makes me "politically correct", than I'm more than happy to be Mr. PC!

Now you are giving me the chuckles. I like the bit about 'your conclusion was based on empirical evidence, while mine was on loose conjecture'. Please write 'empirical' again. It makes you sound so professorial.

Your conclusion (or is that conjecture?) is based on the same empirical evidence that I was using. It turns out that my conjecture (conclusion) was wrong. I can live with that. I could have lived with being right. Would you have conceded the point if Caldwell had hired a Black coach as OC, or would you have ignored that empirical evidence?

If you were so certain that I was wrong, why not take the bet? You could have had me hero worshiping for the next 2 months. Because you knew just like I did that Caldwell was going to hire a Black OC. Turns out we were both wrong.

I would have taken the bet, but been without internet last few days. I didn't see it as overreaction or reaching either... it is a decent observation about the landscape of the NFL. There's a lot of nepotism involved and unless the league and player's associated deal with it, i don't see it changing.

Hadn't planned to before hand, but BS turned into such a girl, I had no choice. Still, part of me agrees with you... just not the part that controls my signature. Regards.

_________________Climate Change - happening every second, of every minute of every day ever since the world was created. Needless to say it's man's fault.

January 23rd, 2014, 2:11 pm

TruckinMack

Lionbacker Rehab Guru

Joined: January 26th, 2006, 9:08 pmPosts: 1218

Re: Is it racist?

njroar wrote:

I would have taken the bet, but been without internet last few days. I didn't see it as overreaction or reaching either... it is a decent observation about the landscape of the NFL. There's a lot of nepotism involved and unless the league and player's associated deal with it, i don't see it changing.

What? Wait! Do we have some agreement that you see my point? That there might be some racial preferences going around in the hiring of NFL coaches, but not enough that anybody cares? Or did I misread you?

_________________Climate Change - happening every second, of every minute of every day ever since the world was created. Needless to say it's man's fault.

January 23rd, 2014, 2:15 pm

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 9589Location: Dallas

Re: Is it racist?

TruckinMack wrote:

njroar wrote:

I would have taken the bet, but been without internet last few days. I didn't see it as overreaction or reaching either... it is a decent observation about the landscape of the NFL. There's a lot of nepotism involved and unless the league and player's associated deal with it, i don't see it changing.

What? Wait! Do we have some agreement that you see my point? That there might be some racial preferences going around in the hiring of NFL coaches, but not enough that anybody cares? Or did I misread you?

I would have taken the bet, but been without internet last few days. I didn't see it as overreaction or reaching either... it is a decent observation about the landscape of the NFL. There's a lot of nepotism involved and unless the league and player's associated deal with it, i don't see it changing.

What? Wait! Do we have some agreement that you see my point? That there might be some racial preferences going around in the hiring of NFL coaches, but not enough that anybody cares? Or did I misread you?

It's always been the old white club, and still is in owners. I don't think it's about race as it is about nepotism. They can hire friends without impunity. And who their friends with might be all white, or all black, so it's not necessarily racist, although it can give the impression. The NFL isn't like a traditional jobs where you have to maintain that "quota" like they do at the head coach level when it comes to assistants.

Is there some racial preferences going on? Absolutely. Is it all racial across the board? No. Was the Caldwell coaching choices done in a racial manner? No. The original favorite for OC was white. The new DB coach is white. All the retained coaches were white.

I really believe Caldwell was looking at options on how to maximize the output of what we have as far as personnel on this team now. Himself, Bree's QB coach, Rice as Assistant HC... all people that have worked with QB's in different schemes and had success. Mix Indy/Denver's offense with New Orlean's offense with a bit of what Freeman did at Kansas State and you have a mixing of minds that can figure out ways to score points.

Same on the defense side of the ball. Austin is going to attack. The LB coach did a lot with what many saw as average talent at DB in Tampa the last two seasons. Same with the DB coach. Getting the most out of the players is what all of these coaches have in common and I don't care what color they are, and it seems this coaching staff feels the same.

I understood your concern, but 2 hires out of all them were black. There's still more to come, but I think it's fair to say this wasn't a racially motivated coaching search.

January 23rd, 2014, 3:00 pm

TruckinMack

Lionbacker Rehab Guru

Joined: January 26th, 2006, 9:08 pmPosts: 1218

Re: Is it racist?

Pablo wrote:

TruckinMack wrote:

njroar wrote:

I would have taken the bet, but been without internet last few days. I didn't see it as overreaction or reaching either... it is a decent observation about the landscape of the NFL. There's a lot of nepotism involved and unless the league and player's associated deal with it, i don't see it changing.

What? Wait! Do we have some agreement that you see my point? That there might be some racial preferences going around in the hiring of NFL coaches, but not enough that anybody cares? Or did I misread you?

I don't think you understand nepotism TM.

Pablo, did you read his answer? He said, "It's a decent observation about the landscape of the NFL." Was he referring to my observation, or somebody else's? He followed that after you posted with,

njroar wrote:

It's always been the old white club, and still is in owners. I don't think it's about race as it is about nepotism. They can hire friends without impunity. And who (they're) friends with might be all white, or all black, so it's not necessarily racist, although it can give the impression.

Is there some racial preferences going on? Absolutely.

Was the Caldwell coaching choices done in a racial manner? No.

I understood your concern, but 2 hires out of all them were black. There's still more to come, but I think it's fair to say this wasn't a racially motivated coaching search.

This response is the most open, honest and thoughtful answer I received. Thanks NJRoar.

To repeat, I am glad I was wrong about Caldwell, that he did indeed hire a management level person of other color. I've been wrong before. It happens so seldom that it may seem a tragedy, but it is not a crime.

_________________Climate Change - happening every second, of every minute of every day ever since the world was created. Needless to say it's man's fault.

January 24th, 2014, 3:04 pm

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 9589Location: Dallas

Re: Is it racist?

TruckinMack wrote:

Pablo, did you read his answer?

I did, however, nepotism has nothing to do with race or friends, it has to do with family. The term comes from "nepotismo", the Italian word for nephew. Jon Gruden hiring his son Jay would be nepotism. Mike Shanahan hiring his son Kyle in Washington was nepotism. You've got Bum Phillips and Wade, if one of the Harbaugh's hired his brother, you got the Shulas, you got Andy Reid putting Britt Reid in charge of the Chiefs "QC", Jim Fassell hired his son as did Pete Carroll in Seattle, and so on. Rumor had it Jeff Fisher was pretty upset when the Titans didn't allow him to hire his son.

Nepotism is pretty rampant in the NFL, I'm just not sure a few of you are clear on exactly what it is.

Yes, Nepotism is family, but I'm not sure there's a word for it's brand in the NFL. Most of these coaches work together for long period of times and they become like family. It's not like there's a huge pool of individuals. Even if they go off into other jobs, when one of them gets a chance, they bring in a group of them to the new place. It's not pure nepotism like the Shannahan's or Marinelli's, but it's pretty close. And it's not even the OC/DC spots, but the position coaches were you see it the most.

January 24th, 2014, 4:45 pm

TruckinMack

Lionbacker Rehab Guru

Joined: January 26th, 2006, 9:08 pmPosts: 1218

Re: Is it racist?

njroar wrote:

Yes, Nepotism is family, but I'm not sure there's a word for it's brand in the NFL. Most of these coaches work together for long period of times and they become like family. It's not like there's a huge pool of individuals. Even if they go off into other jobs, when one of them gets a chance, they bring in a group of them to the new place. It's not pure nepotism like the Shannahan's or Marinelli's, but it's pretty close. And it's not even the OC/DC spots, but the position coaches were you see it the most.

NJRoar - Your definition of Nepotism, while more casual, could also be correct. It depends on the definition of 'Kinship'. No need to look for another word.

Nepotism: Favoritism (as in appointment to a job) based on kinship.

Kinship: 1. Connection by blood, marriage, or adoption; family relationship.2. Relationship by nature or character; affinity.

Pablo, to paraphrase a certain Lionbacker, 'Are you sure you understand the word 'Nepotism'.

_________________Climate Change - happening every second, of every minute of every day ever since the world was created. Needless to say it's man's fault.

January 24th, 2014, 5:09 pm

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 9589Location: Dallas

Re: Is it racist?

If you want to expand the definition, I have no issue with it. I just wanted to make sure y'all knew how it is defined. I certainly can understand in the NFL, like most work places, how you could broaden the term to encompass more of a "familiarity". As they often say, it isn't what you know but who you know.

If you want to expand the definition, I have no issue with it. I just wanted to make sure y'all knew how it is defined. I certainly can understand in the NFL, like most work places, how you could broaden the term to encompass more of a "familiarity". As they often say, it isn't what you know but who you know.

Not expanding the meaning at all.

Online Oxford English Dictionary

Nepotism: the practice among those with power or influence of favouring relatives or friends, especially by giving them jobs:

Maybe you should contact Oxford and let them know they are using the word all wrong. Or... just say, "My bad, I had no idea. Thanks for the heads up." It's not like you have to post it on your sig or anything.

_________________Climate Change - happening every second, of every minute of every day ever since the world was created. Needless to say it's man's fault.