Poker (online or live)

Replying here to TravMan's comment from the Video Games subforum. I think online poker for real money better fits here since it also parallels live play and isn't really what I think of as a "video game."

[quotea84fc9ea76="TravMan162"]The only video game I currently play is Full Tilt Poker online.

However, it's eerily fishy how miraculous the river card ALWAYS is. Something tells me it's rigged because I've seen too many crazy things on there.[/quotea84fc9ea76]
Please don't go onto any serious poker forums and claim that Full Tilt (or any major poker site) is rigged. You'll be flamed to high heaven. lol I must see at least one of those posts per day.

None of the major poker sites are rigged. What you describe is called variance, and a little thing called "confirmation bias" causes you to remember every time someone draws out a bad beat, while forgetting every time you've done it yourself, or that good hands do hold up most of the time. It's also exacerbated by the high numbers of fish at the lower limits who will call you down with junk. For them, poker is just another gamble, like bingo or blackjack or roulette, so they play anything in the hopes of getting lucky -- and sometimes they do. Just last night I watched a guy call an all-in with 23o pre-flop. I couldn't believe it. Fortunately for the other guy, he didn't hit and busted out, but I've seen them draw out like that too many times. Lots of small pairs or suited connectors draw out against AA, KK, and the like, and if you have the pot odds to justify a call, there's nothing wrong with playing them. AA is only an 80% favorite pre-flop, if you don't get them off their hand before the flop hits, your chances are significantly reduced. I've had AA/KK cracked more times than I can count, but I don't sweat it, it's just the nature of the game.

You can't get pissed about it like some do. There IS still an element of gambling to even the most skillfully played poker game, and luck is still a major factor. However skill and strategy consistently earn you more money long term, and there is a strategy for playing with fish. You have to tighten up and then take advantage of the fact that they will call you down to the river whenever you do have a strong hand. They can be the most profitable players of all if you play them right. If you can't bother to play them correctly, then consider moving up in limits if your bankroll can tolerate it, but be aware that there are still wealthy fish (and maniacs) at all levels. Personally, I consider it easier to beat a table of fish than sharks.

Speaking of Full Tilt, I've built moderate bankrolls in PokerStars and SportsBook. I think PokerStars blows away Full Tilt by the way, I much prefer playing there. I haven't deposited real money at Full Tilt yet, instead I embarked upon a mission to seed a bankroll from freerolls. The other night I played [ba84fc9ea76]six hours[/ba84fc9ea76] of freeroll tourneys, coming in 6/572 or so to earn a whopping [ba84fc9ea76]$3.10[/ba84fc9ea76]! Chris "Jesus" Ferguson did a similar experiment where he turned $1 into $20,000 -- I'm no Ferguson but figured if I started out slow and maintained discipline, I could build up a playable bankroll without any deposits.

Well.... I have to start over. Lost $3, now down to $0.10. I messed up and tried to play cash games, not realizing that FT doesn't have penny stakes cash games like Stars does -- 10NL is the lowest they go. I should have played the $1 SnG's instead and would likely have done better. Oh well, off to another 6 hour freeroll I guess...

TravMan162

16-06-2008 12:14:15

ha, wow, holy crap DMo, well I'm actually glad I posted that, because I was starting to lose faith about the legitimacy of that site. I mean, it seemed like no matter what I had, there would be one card in the deck that the person who called me needed and low and behold he would hit a river miracle. It just seems to happen more often there than in any real B+M game I've played, but since it has your vote of confidence, then I'll keep on playing..... But also, since you told me I was wrong.... Remember that time on June 16th when you were trying to make that new forum.................................... D D

6 hours seems like a long long time, but at least you placed, so that works out well. I think I'm going to be coming across some free time, so I think I'm going to take on your logic and get some money without having to deposit any. I'm decent at poker, but sometimes it takes so long that my good intentions of playing through a tourney get dissolved when something else comes up and I have to start going all-in until I'm out.

A buddy of mine actually started trying to do that, but I'm not sure what ended up happening because I haven't thought to ask. I'm sure if you put enough time into it you'll build a nice roll, especially you because you seem to excel at everything you do D

Haha, how depressing is that knowing that you are about to embark on another six hour adventure? I thought you were a busy guy?? lol

dmorris68

16-06-2008 12:38:16

I am busy, but have been playing late, until 2-3am many nights. That night I played a 2 hour freeroll but bubbled out at like 16/450, then got into a 4 hour freeroll starting at 1130pm. That's the one I made the money in.

Hopefully it won't take another six hours to get a few bucks again. )

Note that I'm only claiming that the sites themselves aren't rigged, not that [i5684d945ad]cheating[/i5684d945ad] by players doesn't occur. Whether through bots or collusion or chip dumping, there are ways to gain an illegal edge. Also witness the recent scandals at Absolute Poker/Ultimate Bet (same company), where prior employees were playing with super user accounts that allowed them to see opponents' hole cards -- AP/UB management wasn't even aware the backdoor existed in their software and have since shut it down, but not until some sharp forum members started running stats on some suspicious players and saw they were orders of magnitude above the norm with regards to win rate and odds. AP/UB first denied, then investigated and confirmed the cheats.

Of all the online sites, I trust PokerStars the most as they seem to be the most aggressive and proactive about eliminating cheaters. They often seek out players who were victims of cheats (such as through collusion) and refund money they lost during those games -- without you even knowing you were cheated.

Quadracer89

17-06-2008 15:41:48

Screw fulltilt.. I used to play that, must of lost $1000 on that site and never ever cashed out. You can hit trips off the flop, and someone will river a flush and put you all in. Im with you travman, ill stick to underground basement games.

dmorris68

17-06-2008 19:16:56

[quote60ab01585a="Quadracer89"]Screw fulltilt.. I used to play that, must of lost $1000 on that site and never ever cashed out. You can hit trips off the flop, and someone will river a flush and put you all in. Im with you travman, ill stick to underground basement games.[/quote60ab01585a]
The exact same thing happens in live games. I've seen it myself, in person and on TV, plenty of times.

Not that I feel compelled to defend Full Tilt or anything, they're not my favorite place to play. I'm just there for the freerolls run by some of the poker forums I hang out in. My real money is at PokerStars and SportsBook.

tylerc

17-06-2008 21:13:19

I agree that FullTilt has a few too many [bb15e559361]very[/bb15e559361] lucky and [bb15e559361]very[/bb15e559361] unlikely cards.

One example I was playing a HtH progressive, where there were 8 people. The first round, I was down to 20 chips, out of 1,500. I came back to beat the guy. Now, I had to play very well, but the odds of that happening are very, VERY slim. I got extremely lucky on the river several times.

dmorris68

18-06-2008 06:39:26

It happens. The more cards hit the board, the greater your chances of losing unless you just happened to flop the nuts (extremely rare). That's why aggressiveness is rewarded, to keep folks from staying in.

I'm not convinced. I've played quite a few hands at FT as well as at least 3 other sites, and I don't see anything out of the ordinary. I also see it in live play, but you have to remember that online poker is about 100x faster than live poker, so you see many many more hands in a given session than you would see live -- which also makes you more likely to be on the receiving end of more bad beats, which gives a false impression of cheating. Exaggerating the effect further is the ability to multi-table while online, which most serious players do, something you can't practically do live either. So now you're taking the faster play of online poker and multiplying it further by the number of tables being played at once. I personally am only comfortable playing 2-3 tables at most, but some folks on the forums play as many as 16 or even 24 at once.

The RNG used in the shuffling algorithms of all the major sites is as random as modern computers can get, using variance input such as user mouse movements as seed data. Their RNG's are also typically certified by outside auditors. I know that's true with PokerStars, and I'm reasonably sure the same applies to FT, Bodog, etc.

Some try to point to the recent cheating fiasco with Absolute Poker & Ultimate Bet (same parent company) as evidence that online poker is rigged, but in reality that isn't the case. Their problem had to do with former employees (including a former CEO) exploiting a backdoor "super-user" account that allowed them to see opponents' hole cards. UB/AP wasn't aware of this flaw in their client, since they didn't write it -- it was acquired from a smaller startup company, and they apparently didn't audit it line-by-line. Thanks to some sharp forum members who noticed unusually suspicious stats on these players over time, the offenders were traced back and found to all be former employees exploiting the super-user functionality. So it wasn't a matter of their servers being rigged to deal pre-determined cards, but rather the cheating players having access to too much information and thus knowing when to fold and when to bet. They have since removed the super-user backdoor and claim to be seeking criminal and/or civil action against the cheaters.

Now I'm not saying that NO poker sites have ever been scams -- sure it's happened. But the major players like PokerStars, Full Tilt, Bodog, Carbon, and several others would be seriously shooting themselves in the foot by doing something so stupid. The bad press over the Absolute Poker/Ultimate Bet scandal has cost them dearly, and they weren't technically the ones doing the cheating. Also, all of these big sites are overseen by gaming commissions. Of course the conspiracy theorists will never be convinced and suggest the commissions are in the back pocket of the sites.

Until I see hard evidence to the contrary though, I don't believe it. Bad beats are the result of the typical variances in poker, they're just amplified by the volume of online poker played today.

tjwor

18-06-2008 09:43:44

Everything DMO has said here is 100% correct.

I have logged thousands and thousands of hours with online poker, and in my early stages I quit a few different sites because "they were rigged"

For me the main thing was I was used to the software of pokerroom.com (which no longer allows U.S. players) And I switched to stars. I had 3 tournaments one night, they were all $22 entry and it was my last 66 in my account. I got 19th in all of them. They were 180 person entry tournies and paid top 18. I was positive it was rigged so I blocked my account and went to full tilt. There I realized the same shit happens, and just as often (not very) and came to realize I was just blaming the site for errors I had made.

I really noticed that this is the same shit that happens live after logging hundreds of hours in the casino (thanks to a few 30+ hour sessions) And I picked up that the same bad beats happen, within the same # of hands.

I also realized that the amount of money Pokerstars is making each year is not worth them cheating. If they would be caught cheating they would lose everything, right now they make millions every week.

Major poker sites have no need to cheat, they are going to win without it, and the risk/reward for them is not near great enough.

Enough about the sites, and on to the actual poker.
Texas hold'em is a game that after a few hours of play people get the feel of it and think that they are becoming pretty good. The problem is that texas holdem is so complex that even the best player in the world has things left to learn...

Do your research, read some books, let me know what you will mainly be playing and i'm sure i've got a book to suggest, i've been through at least a dozen poker books... Recently i'm re-reading all of my tournament books before I head to vegas on the 5th D

I'd be glad to help anyone from here out if they need any advice, not saying i'm a pro or anything, but i have a good understanding of many aspects of the game...

dmorris68

18-06-2008 11:13:00

LOL, talking about flopping the nuts reminds me of just how fickle serious poker players can be. Especially those on forums. lol

One night a week or two ago I flopped quad K's. Now, technically someone could be holding AA and hit the other two on the turn & river, or perhaps even draw a royal flush on the river, but the odds of quad kings being dominated on a given board are so astronomical as to be nonexistent, so let's just say for all intents and purposes, I had the nuts.

It was a ring game of 25NL (.10/.25 No Limit) on PokerStars. I was dealt KJo on the button, not a very strong hand and one I would typically fold to a big preflop raise. Sure enough, the player under the gun raises 3x preflop. But I'm deep-stacked compared to this guy, and have position, and for some reason just felt like taking the gamble on the marginal hand. Besides, at these level you have all sorts of fish who will raise out of position with bad hands.

So I call and I think one other, and the rest of the table folds. To my surprise, trip Kings came on the flop, giving me quads. After the immediate rush of adrenaline, I had the fear that I wouldn't get paid off and the monster hand would be wasted (best hand I've ever hit in a money game), so I slowplayed a bit to draw them into the pot further. I figured since he raised preflop I could probably keep him in the pot (and thus get more money) by controlling the pot size to keep him priced in, rather than pushing all-in right away. So villain makes a pot sized bet on the flop, I raise 2x, he calls, the other guy folds. Villain checks the turn (a Jack), I bet pot again, he calls. River is a blank, he checks, I bet pot, he calls again. Now there's almost $40 in at this point (remember, we're playing .25/.50), and I lay down my monster to take the pot. He was holding JJ, hitting his trips on the turn but the trip kings on the flop essentially counterfeited his 3rd jack, giving him a full boat of Kings over Jacks -- a very powerful hand itself, just not enough for four kings. It was a glorious moment for me, and a hand I thought I played very well.

Until I got back to the forums. People there like to discuss the playing of specific hands, and I couldn't wait to share this one. Instead of basking in the glow, I was promptly berated by the seasoned vets for calling a preflop raise with KJo!!! Man, that's a tough crowd to impress. lol Nevermind that I had position and stack on the guy and could afford the gamble (it was only a 50 cent raise). I was told that I would go broke playing like that. And no, I don't often play those hands like that either, but dang, some people play like robots and lineverli deviate from their textbook strategy. I'm all for the strategy and math of the game, and study them at length, but there's still a lot of gamble to poker, I don't care what anybody says.

So that's my latest poker story contribution to this topic. P

acemckean

30-06-2008 13:33:08

do you only play at full tilt or at pokerstars also- i play there in at least 2 tournaments(if not more a day)

H3nry

03-07-2008 14:06:34

Recently I've been spending many hours on Bodog, but they've recently started declining my credit card. A quick phone call told me that some banks just started declining deposits to sites like these without special permission. I could call Bank of America and get it sorted out, but I'm kind of interested in FT. Setting up an account now.

I had no money left in my Bodog account anyway. I put 20 bucks in over a year ago, surprised it lasted this long. It went as high as $53. After I set up this account, I'm gonna try for the free roll deposit-free method, see how I do. If I don't get anything after a few tries, it wouldn't kill me to put in $20. Glad to see some fellow Hold 'Em players out there )

[ba9599964eb]Edit[/ba9599964eb] Hey, got the account set up, but does anyone know what makes a freeroll tourney "Restricted"? That's kind of aggravating. They're ALL restricted P

dmorris68

04-07-2008 09:03:07

[quotee909c5ac2a="H3nry"]Recently I've been spending many hours on Bodog, but they've recently started declining my credit card. A quick phone call told me that some banks just started declining deposits to sites like these without special permission. I could call Bank of America and get it sorted out, but I'm kind of interested in FT. Setting up an account now.[/quotee909c5ac2a]
You'll find most sites won't accept US credit cards anymore, thanks to the UIGEA legislation that makes it illegal for financial institutions to fund online gambling. There is no "special permission" available because it's against federal law. None of the major US banks or CC issuers will willingly allow charges to be processed for the purpose of online gambling.

A few sites get around it by "hiding" the charge behind something like "Internet Payment" which looks like an online bill payment. SportsBook is one. They're treading on thin legal ice by doing so, but the legislation is very controversial and doesn't get much respect, many expect it to be rescinded or revised soon. I've yet to hear of it being enforced anyway, but the fact remains it is current US law.

There are also some specific gift cards, namely the All Access brand of GC's, both the reloadable and the fixed value cards, that will work on most poker sites.

Personally, I just use bank transfer on all of my poker sites.

[quotee909c5ac2a="H3nry"][be909c5ac2a]Edit[/be909c5ac2a] Hey, got the account set up, but does anyone know what makes a freeroll tourney "Restricted"? That's kind of aggravating. They're ALL restricted P[/quotee909c5ac2a]
Most freerolls are private and sponsored by poker communities, forums, etc. You need to be a member of such a community, where they release the passwords.

H3nry

04-07-2008 09:40:39

Thanks so much! How do these bank transfers work?

dmorris68

04-07-2008 12:29:49

[quoteb74a011dd5="H3nry"]Thanks so much! How do these bank transfers work?[/quoteb74a011dd5]
Just like any other bank transfer, such as paying bills online. You provide your bank routing and account numbers, they withdraw the funds. There are several different payment providers, but all work the same way. PokerStars uses eCheck, for example. I believe FullTilt just started with a new payment service called UltraPay or something like that, it actually uses "phone cards" for payment. You're buying a phone card and transferring its value to your poker account. Pretty clever.

dmorris68

04-07-2008 13:05:30

Oh, been meaning to come and brag about my latest big hands. Since I posted about quad Kings above, I hit quad Aces online. Pretty sweet. However, I even topped that this week.

We just got back from a week at Panama City Beach, and on Tue and Wed I drove the 30 miles or so to the Ebro Greyhound Track where they have a cardroom on the top floor. I hadn't played live poker outside of friend/family games in ages, as cardrooms are not legal around here. I was expecting a typical casino type game -- lots of tourists and bad players -- and was in for a rude awakening. The first day I was seated at a table with 8 regulars who must play there every day, knew everybody by their first name (including the dealers who knew all of them as well), and continuously talked of their Vegas experiences. Including one guy who just returned from playing in his 3rd WSOP. Great. Needless to say, I was a bit intimidated being the stranger, and it took several hours to loosen up and get into my game. Unfortunately it was too late to recover completely, and I walked out down $280 for the night.

The next night I went back, this time the table was a LOT easier, only one or two regulars and they weren't that good. If not for a couple of bad beats I would have done a lot better, but I still left with a profit. The highlight of my night, however, was hitting a Royal. Yep, Royal Flush, clubs. First RF I ever remember hitting in a real money game. It paid off pretty well too, as one guy had top pair and was raising to the river. I damn near folded with a top two pair, but saw the draw on the board and hung in. I hit my RF on the river, and you should have heard the table erupt when I laid the cards down!

The only downside is the cardroom has a running jackpot for hitting certain hands. The caveat is you must hold two of the cards, in my case I only held Jc, so didn't get the $100 RF jackpot. If I had held two hearts and hit a Royal, the jackpot would have been [b346cbd9acd]$14,000.[/b346cbd9acd] Still, it was a rush! A couple of the veteran players said they hadn't seen a Royal hit in years.

The wife and I will be making a casino trip before long, either to a boat or to Vegas. The wife likes the gambling thing too and won $40 betting on the dogs. She's learning poker and enjoys it as well, so now that our youngest is all grown up we'll be free to take some gambling vacations.

DRay9911

08-07-2008 10:31:06

2+2?

-dan

[quote9611bc87ab="dmorris68"]Until I got back to the forums.[/quote9611bc87ab]

dmorris68

08-07-2008 10:37:39

[quotea614df4a7a="DRay9911"]2+2?[/quotea614df4a7a]
I'm a lurker there as well as a few other poker forums, but I don't think I've ever posted on 2+2. If so, only once or twice. As far as poker forums go, I hang out mostly at CardsChat, a place where I'm duly reminded of proper poker strategy on nearly every post I make. ) Seriously, they have some hardcore players there. I've learned a lot from them, which I guess is why I like to hang out there.

DRay9911

08-07-2008 12:52:22

most poker forum members love to tell you how bad you played your hand. i wish i had work access to 2+2 because of the main event, it is hard as hell to go through a ton of pages each night.

-dan

tjwor

09-07-2008 22:02:30

Just got back from hours upon hours of poker while in vegas... I played a lot of 1-2NL and some drunken 2-4 Limit... Ended up about break even for the 5 days, took 2 very bad beats that were each $400+ pots, so that hurt a little, but I had a blast still!

What game were you playing at the tracks dmorris? Limit I assume?

dmorris68

09-07-2008 22:22:25

[quote95bdbea5dd="tjwor"]What game were you playing at the tracks dmorris? Limit I assume?[/quote95bdbea5dd]
$1/$2 NL. I don't play Limit, it's too much like bingo at those stakes. They had a $2/$5 NL game, but due to the stupid FL law the buy-in is capped at $100 no matter the stakes. 20BB buy-in is retarded, the 50BB buy-in for $1/$2 was bad enough.

The wife and I are tentatively planning a Vegas trip next spring.

tjwor

09-07-2008 22:26:22

yea, that would be stupid @ 20bb, 1 preflop raise would be worth 1/5th of your stack...

My first trip to vegas was a blast! I was sick and tired of poker online, and hadn't played for a while, but now i'm ready to deposit again and start playing ring games again! (havn't played them in over a year, switched to tournies)

dmorris68

09-07-2008 22:32:49

Strangely (and it could be purely variance, which is likely), my online ring gameplay improved greatly after returning from live play. I've profited in every $50NL session since Saturday.

However I have completely lost somehow the ability to finish tourney's ITM. When I first started online, I played SnG's almost exclusively, and was regularly finishing ITM or even 1st. Then I started playing cash games and got hooked, now when I go back to tourney's I just can't switch gears and do well. Tourney strategy is completely different from cash game strategy, and my mind seems stuck on ring play.

DRay9911

19-07-2008 10:45:43

i finally got around to making echeck deposit into pokerstars, it was very easy (almost too easy).

-dan

DRay9911

25-07-2008 06:38:07

lost $125 last night playing $3/$6.

my a/a vs 10/10....flop is 10/8/8

my q/q vs 7/7...flop is j/10/7

might as well have been playing on ultimatebet.

-dan

dmorris68

25-07-2008 07:29:02

[quotea81af3cb95="DRay9911"]lost $125 last night playing $3/$6.

my a/a vs 10/10....flop is 10/8/8

my q/q vs 7/7...flop is j/10/7

might as well have been playing on ultimatebet.

-dan[/quotea81af3cb95]
$3/$6? You playing over your bankroll, or did you really deposit $6K+? P Actually I believe the "proper" BR management philosophy calls for a minimum of 20 buy-ins at 100bb each, so for 600NL ($3/$6) that would be $12K.

Those are high stakes for online poker, the variance is gonna kill you if you're not practicing proper BRM. $125 in $3/$6 is really nothing more than a blip -- I play mostly 50NL (.25/.50) and have won/lost similar amounts in a single pot before. The other night at one table I won three separate $90-$100 pots within a few minutes of each other, and just last night watched a guy take down a $175 pot (again, playing .25/.50). At 600NL I would think most every pot would get that big, so swings of $125 would actually be minimal.

Night before last I was 2-tabling 50NL and was doing well on one table, but on the other table I was running ice cold. Getting bad beat after bad beat, busting and re-buying twice. I lost continuously to stuff like set over set, my set of kings cracked by runner-runner bottom flush, etc. I just couldn't catch a break, and ended up down over $100 for that table, although my winnings on the other table reduced my total loss for the night to around $35.

So I wouldn't consider a $125 downswing at 600NL to be bad at all. $125 downswing at 50NL is a bit more frustrating, but still not the end of the world.

Also, how did you play your premium pocket pairs pre-flop? That's where their strength with those hands lie. If you're playing with donks who will call any raise, there isn't much you can do so you need to play even AA conservatively -- after the flop you're still almost a coinflip to be drawn out on. IIRC even AA only wins to a showdown around 60% of the time. At 600NL I wouldn't expect nearly as many donks as at the limits I play, but I hear there still are some. If you couldn't get them off their hand pre-flop, and the flop didn't coordinate with your pocket pair, I would proceed cautiously, especially in cash games. I lay down AA and KK all the time post-flop once it appears I'm behind. It's hard to do, but once you learn to recognize you're probably beat and accept it, the chip spewing reduces dramatically. )

DRay9911

25-07-2008 07:57:33

slow down there daddy warbucks

i was playing $3/$6 limit....i don't have the palatial estate you do.

i raised pre-flop, there was no raise on his part until the river when he knew he had it. i lost both hands to the same guy so i'm sure he had the cheat software.

i have no idea why people would get themselves into $175 pots when the blinds are .25/.50.

-dan

dmorris68

25-07-2008 08:30:09

[quoteac57f1d428="DRay9911"]slow down there daddy warbucks

i was playing $3/$6 limit....i don't have the palatial estate you do.[/quoteac57f1d428]
Ah, I guess I'm so used to NL I forget that people play limit. I don't have the patience for it. P Most of my profits come from playing relatively few hands, then capitalizing on big pots when I do play. Pots never get big in limit, so the reward is suppressed, and you have to maintain a pretty high, steady level of play to make any money at it.

[quoteac57f1d428="DRay9911"]i raised pre-flop, there was no raise on his part until the river when he knew he had it. i lost both hands to the same guy so i'm sure he had the cheat software.[/quoteac57f1d428]
On PokerStars? I"m assuming you were being sarcastic there, but if you were serious, there is no cheat software -- you can't cheat on Stars. P

In fact, there isn't "cheat software" for any mainstream site, even UB/AP. The cheating scandal with UB/AP was with former employees who knew how to access the superuser accounts (now closed) on their servers to allow them to see all hole cards. There is no "software" available to do it. Trust me, the people who had superuser access an UB/AP weren't playing $3/$6 limit, they were playing high stakes NL and winning tens of thousands per session. IIRC the top cheater (ex-CEO of the company) was well over a million in winnings when he was caught.

That said, I don't put money into UB/AP simply because of (a) their incompetence and inattention in letting it happen in the first place, and (b) how they handled it in the aftermath.

In fact, I play almost exclusively at PokerStars now, except for the occasional social freeroll at FT and UB. Even my SportsBook real-money account has sat unused for over a month now.

Sometimes those bad beats just happen, it doesn't mean they're cheating -- just lucky donks playing bingo, and it happens on every single site. They focus on short-term results, and every successful poker player will tell you that successful poker is a long-term endeavor -- ignore short-term results beyond identifying leaks in your game, and just keep playing good poker. Over the long term, getting your money in with the best hands and laying down the rest, variance will come down on your side and you will profit, despite the frustrating downswings that are inevitable.

Another lesson that was hard for me to learn, and I still struggle with sometimes, is to fear the big river bet. Most of the time, if I'm being checked or called to the turn and then raised on the river, I've either been trapped or drawn out on. Those can be the hardest hands to lay down when you've invested so much in the pot, and sometimes pot odds dictate that you call anyway, but I've lost a ton of money in hands like that. Now I'm always wary of an overbet on the river and play them very cautiously. Even most donks won't try to make a huge play with air on the river.

[quoteac57f1d428="DRay9911"]i have no idea why people would get themselves into $175 pots when the blinds are .25/.50.[/quoteac57f1d428]
I see it every night. People think they're playing tournaments or something, and push all-in for $50 or more with a pair of tens. And sometimes there's more than one such player at a table who will call, and before you know it, the pot is well over $100.

I'm probably giving away too much information about my play (in the event I ever play against any of you), but I tend to play tight most of the time (although I sometimes play a cheap bingo hand just to either get lucky, or throw off other's reads on me). When faced with a ridiculous overbet situation, I'll laydown what is likely the best hand unless I liknowli I have the nuts, or a very reliable read that the bettor is a maniac. Especially an overbet from another tight player. Yeah, I might have been played, but my losses were minor -- I've been drawn out on too many times by being suckered into an overbet situation when I was ahead, only to crash and burn by the river. But there is no better feeling that liknowingli you have the nuts (I had quad K again last night, for instance) and having some donk re-raising you on every street. I love watching them hang themselves.

Of course, I've hung myself too. Again last night, while 3-tabling 50NL, I flopped a full-boat, but lost almost $60 in that hand to quad 9's. Those kinds of beats really sting, but I know I got my money in with a premium hand, and that's all you can ever do. Long term, flopping a boat will win the hand a huge percentage of the time, so I laughed it off and moved on.

DRay9911

25-07-2008 08:56:15

us regular folk who only put in $50 every now and then slum it out at the limit tables. i worked it up to $125 over the weekend and was up to $144 last night. the pots got up to $60 or so, i know that's sofa cushion change for you but they were big enough pots for me especially since i lost.

i guess 'cheating software' wasn't the right term. i should have said he was probably a pokerstars programmer who had the ability to manipulate the flop so he got trips each time....yes, i'm being sarcastic and yes i'll probably put in 100 this weekend.[/sizee862851a43]

-dan

zr2152

24-10-2008 08:35:59

Guys,

I don't know if you remember centsports being posted here in the past but now they have a site called centpoker.

Like centsports, it is all advertiser supported and they are legit. It is pretty neat how they do the payouts and what not so check it out.

Totally free.

centpoker.com

P.S. If you plan on signing up and wouldn't mind signing up under me, pm me for a link. If not, the site is posted above.

Enjoy.

DRay9911

16-11-2008 12:09:09

i started playing 3/6 limit yesterday and won a biggie (most i've ever won)

I can sorta understand the guy with AA not laying down, that's a hard hand for a pro, much less a rookie, to lay down even when the action indicates you're probably beat.

But UTG with 99 4-betting the turn with 2 overcards on the board, being called by TWO others, and then still calling the showdown when a 3rd overcard hits? He was dreaming. Guess he was betting on rivering his inside straight, and was too far in to not bet another $6 to see his screwup.

LOL, now that's a bad beat. At least he must have suspected you had Ac?c since he didn't raise your river bet with his K-high flush. I like how zombie bailed after your passive play turned aggressive -- I take it you had been playing pretty tight up until then.

tylerc

09-12-2008 18:58:08

I played in a tournament on Full Tilt the other night with about 300 people in it for a $3 entry fee + .30 for FT. I ended up getting 11th and winning about $12.50. It's not winning, but I don't consider myself a "good" poker player by any means, I just got some extra money from i-Deal and put $50 on to play around with.

DRay9911

10-12-2008 07:33:59

i'm not sure if i would have been able not to raise with a K-high flush. i was hoping he would have thought i had trip-10s.

i was at the table barely an hour and went from $200 to $425, which made up for losing $200 on two 3/6 tables a couple of sundays ago. i won a $117 pot on my 3rd or 4th hand when my trip-9s beat someone's trip-4s (x/x/x/4/9). i won the 2 or 3 coin flips i was in and only lost one good sized pot when i had 9/9 on a x/j/a/j/x table and the other guy had j/j (lost $40 on that hand). i probably shouldn't have left since the chair was hot but i told myself i would quit if i doubled it.

i'm pretty much tight/conservative pre-flop, i'm not going to raise with k/q offsuit like i see a lot of people do. i'll raise pocket pairs or a strong ace and depending on how much is already in the pot, i'll sometimes call with something suited or a suited connector and hope to hit something.

-dan

[quote6367346a41="dmorris68"]LOL, now that's a bad beat. At least he must have suspected you had Ac?c since he didn't raise your river bet with his K-high flush. I like how zombie bailed after your passive play turned aggressive -- I take it you had been playing pretty tight up until then.[/quote6367346a41]

You finished the tournament in 176th place.
A $225.00 award has been credited to your Real Money account.

You earned 239.64 tournament leader points in this tournament.
For information about our tournament leader board, see our web site at
http//www.pokerstars.com/poker/tournaments/leader-board/

Congratulations!
Thank you for participating.

i got into the tourney free by being in the top 6 in a 210fpp satellite.

tylerc

21-12-2008 11:16:07

I finally got to play a little bit after finals and whatnot last night. I entered a FTP (Full Tilt Points) satellite into their Holdiay $100k, and won that, so I'll be playing in that on Friday afternoon.

goof

19-01-2009 13:29:57

Anyone willing to trade my paypal for pokerstars? not looking for a lot but i'd like to try my luck.