But before I head to the airport (Mark Emmons will be at Sharks Ice later this morning), here are some additional excerpts from the post-game scrums and press conferences, plus a deeper by-the-numbers look at what went wrong:

*****Todd McLellan grouped Marleau’s inteference penalty with the slashing call against Marty Havlat as both prematurely ended San Jose power plays.

“Two penalties on power play situations, that hurts,” he said. “We talk about offensive zone penalties as well. But I think the referees have to call both of them and I’m not going to complain about the calls at all.

“We’d prefer not to take those, especially on the power play. I think, if we’re talking about Marty’s slash, he’s got a stick battle and gets overly aggressive.

“If we’re talking about Patty’s penalty, he’s charging into a pile looking for a loose puck and a guy steps in front of him and his momentum takes him through that player and knocks him down. Not malicious or ill intent there to take those penalties, but we took them.”

“I thought that Zus came in and gave us a solid effort through the middle and Brad Winchester’s size was effective along the boards.”

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He seemed of a mixed mind about the shuffling on the top two lines.

“We’re down a goal, we’re short one goal at the end of the night. We didn’t get what we wanted, yet I thought this was probably our best 60-minute effort in the series.”

Not good enough, of course, because the win wasn’t there. But still a more credible performance.

Later he added: “We have to feel good about the way we played and s—– about the results. I don’t know how that balances at all. We’ll find out tomorrow.”

Not sure if the interview was carried on live TV anywhere or had to be bleeped, but the emotion was honest.

*****Antti Niemi talked about the two goals.

On the first by B.J. Crombeen, when he was screened but also not quite in position: “Our guy was trying to block it. I thought they might try to wrap it from behind the net, but then they passed the puck and I wasn’t sure where it was coming from.”

On the second by Andy McDonald: “I stopped it with my stick but it bounced straight up and I was trying to get my blocker on it.”

*****Finally, a look at some of the statistics.

Once again and uncharacteristically, the Sharks lost more faceoffs than they won with St. Louis coming up with 54 percent of the draws.

The Blues also blocked more shots than the Sharks, 26-16, and — this is a real telling number — had only five giveaways to the 18 by San Jose.

The Sharks did out-hit the Blues 28-19, but McLellan has pointed out in the past that the team with puck all the time rarely wins that stat battle, flawed as it may be.

That’s it for now. But that giveaway number is something to ponder with the morning coffee. If nothing else, it reflects that strong St. Louis forecheck that earned them 109 points this season and three of the first four games in this series.

David Pollak

David Pollak has been following the NHL forever and at the Mercury News as an editor or reporter since 1987. For almost a decade he wrote about the Sharks as the paper's Fan in the Stands before joining the sports department in 2001. He became the Sharks beat writer before the 2007-08 season and began this blog at that time. You can also follow him on Twitter at @PollakOnSharks.

we have the better players in our top 6, but they can roll two shutdown lines. so its time to spread the scoring out. let the boys play free and double shift the third line as a shutdown and let our top line get at in sheltered offensive situations.

Uncle Jefe

MW @ 26 said “Only 5 turnovers? That’s unreal!”
Yeah, they didn’t have time to turn the puck over, as they were too busy gobbling up all the Sharks’ turnovers.
How about all the freaking unnecessary icings the Sharks have made?

Bluesfan

I’d like to thank BluesFan, too, as it is so rare to get respectful reasonable discussion from other fans. We do appreciate what you’re saying. You’re at the very leasy mostly right. We’re just a bit bitter right now.

Thank you, but I understand, when a fan of the enemy comes over and offers advice it comes off as pompus and gloating , and I didn’t want to be that way. I really just wanted to let you all know I think your team is good and I don’t think things need to be blown up. The margin for error in the NHL is slim, and the difference between winning and losing among the top 16 teams is often very small. The Blues are a completely different team with Andy McDonald in the Lineup. The Canucks are a different team with Henrick Sedin in the Lineup, the Hawks are a different team with Hossa in the lineup. I have seen all 8 games against the Blues this season, as well as what other games I could catch throughout the year, and I really think a speedy, stud, dman and some speedster role players could make the Sharks the best team in the league.

Joe

I’m curious as to why it’s been widely ignored that Antti Niemi is simply giving up goals that Brian Elliot is not. Once again, the San Jose goaltending is being outplayed by the opposition’s netminder. You can’t win a seven game series without your netminder stealing a game here or there and Niemi just looks awful.

Elliot stops Havlat AND Couture all alone in the first period, and Niemi can’t stop a half-speed wrister 18 inches off the ice by B.J. Crombeen? Sorry, but that’s not good enough. I don’t really care what Patrick Marleau is or isn’t doing when that’s going on.

Also, where is the criticism of Pavelski? The faceoff problems start with him. He has NO answer for Sobotka on the draw, and what’s worse, he’s losing them clean. St. Louis must feel very comfortable icing the puck, because they know it’s not going to matter. He’s also got a giant zero on the scoreboard, just like Marleau, and for my money he’s been a lot less physical than #12 over the last two games as well.

Dan

Marleau and Couture are both injured. 100%. On that breakaway in the first couture looked like that was his first shot in goal in his life. he completely screwed that up. Marleau has been useless for the past two months. He is one of the fastest guys in the league but looks slower than Heatley now.

Tealandwhitedisease

The Blues play a 1-2-2 trapping game and the Sharks play right into it. The way to break the trap is not to slowly lug the puck across the line and then stop and try and feather a pass all the way across the ice. 99/100 times it will be intercepted.

The way to break the trap is dump the puck in, skate hard and bang/crash get it back.

Once in the zone you need to drive the net hard and make the other team take penalties.

The Sharks are either not built to do that or they are unwilling to do that.

MLBSF

Bluesfan says:
April 20th, 2012 at 12:53 pm

@mlbsf You wanna elaborate on where I might be wrong? I’d love to hear it. I think maybe that is the problem with folks who are to close to the situation and to emotional about it, they overreact. If you guys are anxious to get rid of Thorton, Marleau, Havalat, etc. I am sure a lot of teams, including the Blues, would be willing to take them off your hands….It is about team speed period. And a few faster players can make the whole team faster.
———-

Well Bluesfan where do I begin?

I’m not arguing with your assessment about team speed.

For one thing we are anxious to get rid of Thornton and Marleau because they drain our payroll, not to mention they are terrible for team chemistry. They have been given enough time to prove they can carry the team to a championship and they have failed.

It’s more than just stats. It’s how you can carry a team. I don’t know what’s so “awesome and scary” about a top line that is inconsistent and can’t get the job done.

Also what do you mean you think the Sharks are close to having a cup contending team? When you go from having a cup contending team for the past 3-4-5 years to now only being close to having one, that means you are going backwards.

And when you go backwards when your core players are getting old, that’s not promising at all.

So I don’t know what you’re talking about, which is why outsiders are not qualified to analyze a team that is screwed up internally.

Dan

DW ruined the team after last years palyoffs. The seto trade was absolutely awful. Burns is a horrible defenseman. Very clumsy and cant hit for his life. Too many turnovers. Should have kept Seto and Wellwood.

Niemi was horrible during the year but playing decent in the palyoffs. However, he has never been able to steal a game for the sharks. Just look at what Thomas does in boston.

Joe

#55 — Dan, agree with you completely, especially on Couture. He hasn’t been close to the same since that nasty hit against Minnesota, and he’s been playing a very shy brand of hockey ever since.

#56 — So painfully true. McLellan is a good coach, but he is way out of his league against Hitchcock.

JohnM

Bluesfan, just ignore him. He’s the resident drama king here with a creepy obsession with Couture.

Thank you for the analysis. We are usually used to trolls that like to gloat, so its nice to hear from fans from opposing teams with an actual hockey discussion.

gbs417

What coaches are even available? I am all for a change that has upside, and not just change for the sake of change. Tippet, Sutter, Hitchcock all took over weak teams and made them substantially better. Who can bring that spark to SJ?

Like many, I fear the rebuilding stages could look a lot like the ’91-93 Sharks if they just go out and select just anyone. To me, keep TMac and replace the under performing assistants (evident by the poor PK and PP [until TMac stepped in]). Those two have done SJ zero favors and have made TMac do the majority of the work. In the off-season there was an article here, that I’ve quoted numerous times, mentioning TMac having the budget to acquire another assistant to handle special teams or promote from within. Well, that obviously failed as the special teams this year wasn’t very good. That passive box PK is not effective as they gave up a ton on the PK. It was garbage and all the opposing teams, fans, and media noticed. The PK finished rank 2nd by goals and goal %, but it was figured out once the POs started (again). Further evident that SJ has plan A, and plan B & C read “see plan A”.

Before the LA “series” at the end of the season I’d say make Clowe the Captain for ’12-’13, but that stunt he pulled with the pokecheck from the bench shows he is not the true leader we all hoped he could be.

Bluesfan

Thanks MLBSF. You are right, I don’t know about team chemistry as far as locker room and payroll. I will still say though, Thorton is not the problem. Yes, you expect your stars to carry the team, but they can’t do it alone. Winning hockey teams are built from the net out. It looks like the Sharks are built from the forwards back. You have great forwards, but your goaltending and defensemen are lacking in my opinion. I would trade just about any forward on the Blues for Thorton. I would also love to have Pavelski and Havlat. I wouldn’t trade several of our dmen though. I think defensemen are the most coveted resource in the NHL and make the forwards better players.

As far as being a contender, I know you guys have made the conference finals the last few years, but I seriously have never thought of the Sharks as a contender. I have actually been saying for years that you guys need more blueline speed.

tutone37

“For one thing we are anxious to get rid of Thornton and Marleau because they drain our payroll”

When did it come to “we”?

Speak for yourself. It’s your opinion, not “ours”. Half the people here don’t want to be associated with your immature behavior on this blog.

GR

mlbsf

Dumbest analysis I’ve read in a long time.
—————– guess that proves you don’t read what you type !!

PlayingD

tutone37 #62 – “For one thing we are anxious to get rid of Thornton and Marleau because they drain our payroll”

When did it come to “we”?
________________

My thoughts exactly. Thornton is an amazing player and the Sharks would be a shadow of themselves without him. I don’t care how much he makes.

I’m not a Marleau fan, but not a detractor either. I don’t love his style of play, but he scored 30+ goals. How do you replace that?

tutone37

Dan #58– Niemi stole game 1.

I don’t know why people are bad mouthing Niemi, or saying he needs to be benched- he hasn’t been the problem, it’s been our inability to put consistent pressure offensively and bury our chances.

Couture had a breakaway and I think it was Pavelski that missed that wide open net last night.

MLBSF

Did everyone read what the St. Louis fan wrote?

He said that even though the Sharks made it to the Western Conf. Finals for two straight years, he hasn’t viewed the Sharks as the final two teams from the West as contenders.

So what does that tell you? It means his definition of contender is either from another planet, or he sees the Sharks fail year after year with its star players and doesn’t have confidence they can get the job done.

Sounds like my view.

Bluesfan, you can keep saying Thornton is not the problem, and I am telling you that he is part of the problem in his current role/salary structure/playoff history.

I told everyone here the Sharks would have a 0 % chance of beating the Blues. Not 1% but a 0%. I will end up being right and I’m telling you the Sharks will never win with Thornton and Marleau as the core players.

Your suggestion of adding different defensive studs will not change a thing. Believe me.

el Tib

Attention Marleau haters… NO TRADE CLAUSE. AND 30 goals.

Get over it.

el Tib

MLBSF… Is there anyone here who has a higher opinion of their own opinion?

Long Time No Cup

The Blues’ fans comments were exceptional. Spot on. Thank you very much for the perspective. Now get out: you aren’t nearly crabby and self-absorbed enough to make it in WTC.

So now what? Blues are going to win this series–I think in six as we’ll have a false spring Saturday night before the final onslaught.

Blues are better team. 7-1 is convincing. That doesn’t make Sharks a bad team or morally deficient.

I wasn’t at the game and only saw the 3rd period, but in that period at least they were hard on the puck, they played physical hockey, they got stoned a couple of time by a very good goalie, they whiffed on a couple of really good looks at the net. It happens.

Someone mentioned a couple of strings ago about a changing of the guard. I think that is a good possibility. Phoenix, Kings, Blues, Nashville–remember that many in this forum have worried for the past two off seasons about the improving Western Conference teams and now it has come to pass.

Sic transit gloria. Read Clayton Christensen: hardest thing to do is retool a successful operation. In their success (playoff runs, president’s trophy, honor and respect around league) Sharks have stumbled and grown old and slow. I think Doug Wilson lives on, I think there will be coaching changes.

Buddy Elf

A Blues fan comes in, disagrees with MLBSF, and MLBSF has a meltdown.

Some people around here are too damn dramatic.

LOL @ “We”

Buddy Elf

LTNC: Spot on.

Bluesfan

MLBSF says:
April 20th, 2012 at 2:00 pm

Did everyone read what the St. Louis fan wrote?

He said that even though the Sharks made it to the Western Conf. Finals for two straight years, he hasn’t viewed the Sharks as the final two teams from the West as contenders.

So what does that tell you? It means his definition of contender is either from another planet, or he sees the Sharks fail year after year with its star players and doesn’t have confidence they can get the job done.

Sounds like my view.

Bluesfan, you can keep saying Thornton is not the problem, and I am telling you that he is part of the problem in his current role/salary structure/playoff history.

I told everyone here the Sharks would have a 0 % chance of beating the Blues. Not 1% but a 0%. I will end up being right and I’m telling you the Sharks will never win with Thornton and Marleau as the core players.

Your suggestion of adding different defensive studs will not change a thing. Believe me.
************************

Ok, let me put it another way, then I am letting it go. SAN JOSE TOP FORWARDS ARE MORE TALENTED THAN ST. LOUIS FORWARDS. As much as I hate to admit it, it is true. The difference lies on the Blueline, 3rd and 4th line, and on ice chemistry/roles.

Thorton is not the problem. He has 4 points in 4 games and is +2. If you are looking at things through paycheck versus production I suppose you could make an argument that his pay could be used better elsewhere, but his play on the ice is not the reason the sharks are losing this series.

and I completely disagree that different defensemen could make a difference. I truly believe if the sharks added a Shea Weber type (I know, every team in the league wants that) to this current team, that they would be the odds on favorite to win the cup.

slappy

Bluesfan@53
“I really think a speedy, stud, dman and some speedster role players could make the Sharks the best team in the league.”

Thank you for input. But some of your suggestions tho good have been done already by our GM with little success: a. stud Dman =Burns and b. speedy role players= Galiardi, Winnick, Havlat, Moore. Sadly you didnt even notice that our team had already done what you suggest. Not blaming you for not noticing by any means. How could you? Our GMs moves did not show up much this season or the POs.

Unfortunately I think there are multiple more complicated issues going on with the Sharks that a casual observer of our team would not pick up on.

“Joe Thorton is not a problem. Anyone who thinks he should go is clueless. He is simply a great player. Blueline speed/overall team speed has been the difference maker.”

JT is a future HOF player, no doubt about it. Hes one of my favorite Sharks. But JTs game is not the model for a quick transition team. Speed, quick transition, spontaneous cross ice precision passing, crashing the net – all those things that up and coming teams are stressing – is not JT. Hes the opposite. JT slows things down. When JT gets the puck, he protect it until everyone else is set up in formation to receive a pass. JT is deliberate and methodical and a genius at that kind of puck possession chess game on ice. But chess on ice is not the new NHL. Tho JT is our teams most talented player hands down, imo, hes also the single most player who prevents our team from updating its identity to be successful in the new NHL. FYI, it breaks my heart to reach this sad conclusion about JT.

slickshark

..interesting posts today,

what I am finding interesting is, unless 95% rule takes over, “all the usual powerhouse teams” for the last few years will be playing off season sports.

Niemi would be a hero if any Shark player was scoring/or doing their job. In 4 games he has allowed 11 goals, 6 of which were PP, and Sharks have scored 7 of which 1 was a PP. Take away PP and we win.

Thornton Bashers, how many of you have gone to games (not on TV) and watched the man on the ice. He plays hard each and every shift. Blues fan is correct, most teams would love to have him.

“NEW RULE” for DW (if he is still around) no taking other teams “cast-offs” at trade dead line time. How’s that been working for you and the team Doug??

Johnny San Jose

MLBSF — You look through your own “Teal-Colored Glasses, meaning you see what you want to see and you certainly don’t pay attention to things outside of San Jose. You’re an absolute moron, therefore, your opinions are moronic. You don’t watch hockey outside of Benicia or wherever you’re from. I’m pretty sure you’ve been to maybe 3 Sharks games in your entire life so what you see on TV isn’t exactly the best way to analyze a specific player.

I will equate Joe Thornton to Pavel Datsyuk. Pavel is an absolute magician and shoots more than Jumbo but they both move at a relative snail’s pace. Two of the best players in the sport and they don’t have the speed you speak of. Also, Thornton has put this team on his back the last 3 playoff season. You just don’t get it. As I’ve said to you before, grow up. You are an absolute embarrassment to yourself and the good people of Benicia.

You’re absolutely right. Marleau isn’t going anywhere. And neither is Doug Wilson. McClellan probably won’t either with his win percentage. Knowing Wilson, he’ll do the “nobel” thing and blame himself for not giving Todd the best possible chance to win. The owner’s group will love Doug for his speech and grant him the chance to “make it right” before the beginning of next season.

MLBSF

@74

That’s the problem with outsiders trying to analyze teams.

He means well and it’s interesting to read what he thinks. But he doesn’t understand that the Sharks have severe internal problems and he doesn’t understand that adding a star defensive player isn’t going to solve an atrocious offensive system and a god-awful special teams system on the PK.

If anything Bluesfan, I’m shocked you’re not more aggressively advocating a coaching change, considering what happened in St. Louis once Hitchcock arrived.

NoCupWithDW

bluesfan,

ignore MLBSF, his hockey knowledge is slightly higher then a slug….

though, while I believe that our top 5 forwards are better then your top 5, your TEAM is a better overall team.

our 3rd/4th lines have been a problem for over 3 years now, with no help in sight.

NoCupWithDW

New thread started

Johnny San Jose

If the 9.5 stat that DP put out here rings true, what are others going to say about Vancouver? The Presidents Trophy Winner, right?

And Pittsburgh, the odds-on favorite to win it all this year.

The Sharks are not as good as in year’s past. But, ANYTHING can happen in the playoffs.

I look back at the Vancouver series last year and 4 of 5 games were one goal games. A couple of different bounces, injuries to key players, etc all played a role into that series.

The Sharks not winning is certainly frustrating and I truly believe that the chemistry has been disturbed with over 1/2 of the team being new this year.

CG

So who do you get to replace Marleau and his thirty goals? Maybe we can replace them like the missing goals from Seto and Heatley. Big Joe is playing fine little Joe is struggling Couture hasn’t been the same since he got pounded on. Clowe can’t score in close. Winnik. Dejardans. Wingles are ok. Tory is fast but what else does he bring. Give TJ and Havlet a chance to play a full year. Pickles,Demers and Braun are just going to get better Murray just needs to be on the third pairing. White is done with us as is Vandy. We need a not ok goalie but a good all the time goalie. Everyone else can go most likley try to get a faster and bigger skater or two somewhere and plug them in either as a forward or Dman.

To me Boyle needs to go. He has had nothing but bad passes, can’t skate out of his own end. Has the majority of his shots blocked which leads to a rush the other way. Plus he couldn’t clear me out of the crease. So start there when you redo your team. Guys like Burns are the future dmen in this league not little Danny Boyles who used to be able to skate seven years ago.

NoCupWithDW

JSJ,

Difference is Vancouver has D. Sedin back in the line up. With him playing all 4 games, the series is even at best, with Van possibly being up 3-1.

Philly has owned the Pens all year(5-1), just like Phx owned us(5-1) and NYR owned Philly(6-0). Pens losing in this round is not very surprising, just like the NYR will beat philly and STL(7-1) will beat the Sharks.

Nothing magic here, some teams just match up better against other teams.

Andy

#61, A typical PR type response

Who is better then the current failure we have. Okay, Bob Hartley, and Craig MacTavish to name two right off the top of my head.

BluesFan

Try being an expert on your own team, that has accomplished nothing in the last 25 years before you come in here and try and tell Sharks fans that your aren’t from the PR department and are actually a Blues fan.

Andy

#68 El Tib

3 goals in 27 games, 0 points in the playoffs. As for a bigger self promoter try GP for one.

Andy

Bluesfan, Yeah our top line has been impressive this series. Pavs 0 points, Marleau 0 points. 3rd line and 4th line players have outscored both. 4th liner Desjardin has more goals then Pavs and Marleau combined.

The 3rd and 4th line experiment is right out of Doug Wilson’s hand book. The last 3 years has been blame the bottom 2 lines, with the constants remaining Marleau and Thornton.

82, CG

As for replacing Marleau’s 3 goals in 27 games, and 0 goals in the playoffs. With his salary you could very easily sign two 25 goal scorers to replace him. And one of them might actually score in a playoff series.

yblaze

I loved what DW did last year at the deadline bringing in Ian White, Wellwood and Eager. I have HATED everything he has done since then. When people talk about the moves he has made, there is rarely mention of the prospects he let go. Last year we all hated on Wallin and Huskins. but they were hardly more harmful than Burns has been. I’d love to see a Wonderlic score for him. When I hear him speak I am reminded of Seth Rogen movies. Burns would have been awesome as supporting actor in Pineapple Express.

Z-Man

Hey DP. 24/229 is 10.48% not 9.5%. I assume you meant to say 10.5% ?

GP

#86,

Huh!?

GP

#86, either you are tweeking, or you haven’t the read the hundred of posts I’ve had in the last couple days. (um ya, tweeking back)

http://mystery@cruzio.com Dan Buecher

Don’t know what the answer is. I think the Sharks are still one of the best teams around because on a given night they have beaten every other team in the league the past few years. Rather see what we have continued to be worked incrementally than to go back to how we had it last century. The Blues tried starting over and after,what was it, 20 years of successive playoffs without a Cup, they lost their owner, their identity and much of their fans. What the Blues have is what you get with high draft picks for about 10 years. Know how you get high draft picks for about 10 years? Will you wait?

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