Shivering Timbers supports

Turbo

Thursday, July 22, 2004 11:59 AM

I have been searching for the life of me, as to why the support on the lift extend so far out from under the track. Is the ground it is built on too soft? or does this part of Michigan get some very bad weather? I have checked TR's, and other posts about it, but I still can't find an answer.

matt.

Thursday, July 22, 2004 12:30 PM

I was at the No Coastercon in Chicago the winter ST was being built. The owners of the park gave an incredible presentation, and if I remember correctly, at least part of the reason was just aesthetic.

Mamoosh

matt.

Thursday, July 22, 2004 1:02 PM

'Moosh, I would have sworn the question was asked, and part of the reason given was that it made the ride look more impressive. It sounded silly to me at the time and it still does. It could have been a case of just rattling off an answer off the cuff.

RideMan

Thursday, July 22, 2004 3:11 PM

I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that the ground there is almost entirely SAND. I don't know how far down they'd have to go to hit rock, but with a spread footer, it wouldn't really matter. But for a spread footer to work it would be helpful to spread the load a bit...

janfrederick

Raven-Phile

RideMan

Thursday, July 22, 2004 5:00 PM

Cedar is an awfully weak wood, though.

I'm not certain that anybody is using Douglas Fir for building coasters anymore, as to some extent it just isn't available in the lumber industry anymore. At least that's the explanation PKI gave for why the Racer, which was built out of fir, is maintained with yellow pine.

janfrederick

Thursday, July 22, 2004 5:07 PM

Say Raven-Phile, you may be on to something there. Could you imagine the publicity that Cedar Point could garner if it were to deck out its next woodie in cedar?

And RideMan, if cedar is weaker, couldn't they simply use even more supports thus creating a super sweet-smelling coaster that would shoo away the moths? Heck, maybe it'd shoo away the Muffleheads too. ;)

Ooops...I'm sure Mr. Phile is more into CCI than classical music..(Ravel)...but who am I to assume? *** Edited 7/22/2004 9:08:03 PM UTC by janfrederick***

Jeffrey Seifert

Thursday, July 22, 2004 5:14 PM

RideMan said:Cedar is an awfully weak wood, though.

I'm not certain that anybody is using Douglas Fir for building coasters anymore, as to some extent it just isn't available in the lumber industry anymore. At least that's the explanation PKI gave for why the Racer, which was built out of fir, is maintained with yellow pine.

True? I have no idea.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

I would have to say not true. I was told that AstroWorld insists that any replacement lumber to the Texas Cyclone be Douglas Fir not Southern Yellow Pine. The head of maintenance even went so far as to say it could be dangerous to replace part of the structure with a weaker wood unless the structure is re-engineered.

I can buy Douglas Fir at our local Home Depot here in Texas, so it should be available.

coasterfreak11

matt.

Mamoosh said:matt. - the supports may have the added benefit of being aesthetically pleasing but, as Rideman pointed out, this is a 125' tall wood structure. First and foremost they are supports.

Which is why in my post I did say that *part* of the reason given was aesthetic, and that it may have just been a case of saying something to interest the crowd off the cuff. Its not like pointing out that the supports support the lift is such a revelation.

Oh well. Here's another thought...there aren't that many wooden coaster lifts that are that isloated. Perhaps ST's lift structure is only slightly larger than average, but the fact that there is no large amounts of track surrounding it makes it look even more imposing.

A look at Mean Streak's first drop doesn't look exceptionally wide support-wise, but I would guess that there is additional support from the surrounding structure. (Not that I am a structural engineer or anything, its just a guess.)

Rob Ascough

Jim Fisher

Friday, July 23, 2004 1:08 PM

As said, it's 125' tall. It's also very exposed to the wind on flat ground. (MiA is pool table flat) It isn't too far from Lake Michigan. It is also straight without any hing turns near the main hill to help stiffen things.

All of these add up to a need for a pretty wide structure to deal with the wind loads. The soil conditions probably aren't a major factor unless you are dealing with swamp. They might effect the foundation design, but probably not the wooden structure itself to any great extent. *** Edited 7/23/2004 5:08:55 PM UTC by Jim Fisher***