MARKS and Spencer has come under fire for “facilitating medievalism” by selling hijabs for girls as young as four.

The retail giant was condemned by anti-extremism campaigners and customers alike for choosing “profits over values” after it emerged M&S was selling child-size hijabs for £6 each as part of its school uniform range.

Maajid Nawaz, the founder of the Quilliam counter extremism organisation, accused M&S of effectively telling young girls it was “immodest” to show their hair.

He wrote on Twitter: “M&S facilitates medievalism by selling children’s hijabs in the schoolwear category.

“It's their right to choose profit over values. But it's our right to shame them for doing so."

Original Quill wrote:When I was a kid, a half century or more ago, Catholic schools had uniforms. Grey skirts and white blouse, boys with dark blue cords and white shirts. It was a Catholic thing. We never thought a thing about it.

If it's "accepting the unacceptable because of religion," it's an old, old practice, nothing new.

But did they wear those uniforms after they left school or after school when out with friends on the weekend?

So its nothing to with an old practice

This is about a store pandering to poor religious beliefs. One that is demeaning and misogynistic towards women.

I have said this countless times. Its the belief that is a choice, as the hijab, is nothing more than the uniform to that belief.

Hence those who wear, belief they have to wear, or will face the consequences in an after life.

That is then not even a choice, but coercion.

Now the same applies to Nuns, who believe they have to wear

Hence both being wrong

Nobody should be coerced into wearing something, through the most appalling lie they will suffer if they do not.

This store is exploiting a market, but simple has no care about what the hijab stands for.

Original Quill wrote:When I was a kid, a half century or more ago, Catholic schools had uniforms. Grey skirts and white blouse, boys with dark blue cords and white shirts. It was a Catholic thing. We never thought a thing about it.

If it's "accepting the unacceptable because of religion," it's an old, old practice, nothing new.

But did they wear those uniforms after they left school or after school when out with friends on the weekend?

So its nothing to with an old practice

This is about a store pandering to poor religious beliefs. One that is demeaning and misogynistic towards women.

I have said this countless times. Its the belief that is a choice, as the hijab, is nothing more than the uniform to that belief.

Hence those who wear, belief they have to wear, or will face the consequences in an after life.

That is then not even a choice, but coercion.

Now the same applies to Nuns, who believe they have to wear

Hence both being wrong

Nobody should be coerced into wearing something, through the most appalling lie they will suffer if they do not.

This store is exploiting a market, but simple has no care about what the hijab stands for.

The opppression of women

Not women, children. Online feedback describes the size medium as suitable to fit a 4 year old.

Didge wrote:But did they wear those uniforms after they left school or after school when out with friends on the weekend?

Yes, pretty much. Of course, the Catholic kids didn't really mingle with the regular school kids. But you'd see them in the stores or game arcades, wearing the dark blue cords and short-sleeved white shirts, and say, 'there go the St. Mary's kids.'

Didge wrote:But did they wear those uniforms after they left school or after school when out with friends on the weekend?

Yes, pretty much. Of course, the Catholic kids didn't really mingle with the regular school kids. But you'd see them in the stores or game arcades, wearing the dark blue cords and short-sleeved white shirts, and say, 'there go the St. Mary's kids.'

What rubbish, as i went to an a Brother De La Salle, all Boys Catholic school.

I certainly mingled with kids from the orchestras I played in and the sports that I played with out side them. As many kids did. Many of whom, were not Catholics.

So your claim is utter nonsense, as per usual

Again, none wore their uniform when out in the evening, on the weekends, or when they finally left the school

Yes, pretty much. Of course, the Catholic kids didn't really mingle with the regular school kids. But you'd see them in the stores or game arcades, wearing the dark blue cords and short-sleeved white shirts, and say, 'there go the St. Mary's kids.'

What rubbish, as i went to an a Brother De La Salle, all Boys Catholic school.

I certainly mingled with kids from the orchestras I played in and the sports that I played with out side them. As many kids did. Many of whom, were not Catholics.

So your claim is utter nonsense, as per usual

Again, none wore their uniform when out in the evening, on the weekends, or when they finally left the school

I'm just saying that what I'm hearing here does not conform to my memories. I remember when Jim Maginni came to public school, over from St. Mary's, it was the first cross-over that we in our class ever experienced. I knew Jim independently, because our dad's were friends.

Our football teams didn't even play together...we had our public school programs, and they had their parochial school league. Same with band. Same with thespian society. Of course, that may have been what the Catholic schools were promoting, and the uniforms were a part of that.

What rubbish, as i went to an a Brother De La Salle, all Boys Catholic school.

I certainly mingled with kids from the orchestras I played in and the sports that I played with out side them. As many kids did. Many of whom, were not Catholics.

So your claim is utter nonsense, as per usual

Again, none wore their uniform when out in the evening, on the weekends, or when they finally left the school

I'm just saying that what I'm hearing here does not conform to my memories. I remember when Jim Maginni came to public school, over from St. Mary's, it was the first cross-over that we in our class ever experienced. I knew Jim independently, because our dad's were friends.

Our football teams didn't even play together...we our our public school programs, and they had their parochial school league. Same with band. Same with thespian society. Of course, that may have been what the Catholic schools were promoting, and the uniforms were a part of that.

Are you, or were you ever a Catholic?

If not, then you really would have no idea.

Even if you did, it would then only relate to a small number of people you knew

Whilst there certainly was anti-irish sentiment that I saw and experinced growing up, most people I knew got along with people whether catholic or not. Being irish, we grew up around Indians and afro-caribbean communities in South London

Again nobody went out in their uniforms on a night out or the weekend. If they did come from a sports event wearing one, then they had the shit ripped out of them

Would you think it acceptable if M&S introduced burkas in their school uniform essentials for primary school girls?Young children should not be brain washed into believing they should cover their heads and hair up to prevent males from leering at them....and if their parents are so misguided they believe their kids should be covered, a major UK retailers should not be pandering to them...imo.

Totally agree, it is encouraging and enabling a backward practice.

Once again people are accepting the unacceptable because of religion.

I think you feel stronger than I do about women wearing head and face coverings Eilzel, my opinion is IF it's their own choice to do so they should not be denied that choice or made to feel uncomfortable by it.To tell an adult what not to wear in their own time is as bad as telling them what they can wear imo.Children have yet to make their minds up and shouldn't be forced into wearing something that really is totally inappropriate for them

But we have no way of knowing who is and isn't forced to wear it.

My issue is with the religion tbh. It expects it of a woman but not a man. They are also undeniably uncomfortable in certain weather conditions too yet women at best feel obliged to wear them to please their god. It is truly awful imo. But I care far more about children being made to wear it than I do women choosing to.

_________________"The reactionary is always willing to take a progressive attitude on any issue that is dead"Teddy Roosevelt

I think you feel stronger than I do about women wearing head and face coverings Eilzel, my opinion is IF it's their own choice to do so they should not be denied that choice or made to feel uncomfortable by it.To tell an adult what not to wear in their own time is as bad as telling them what they can wear imo.Children have yet to make their minds up and shouldn't be forced into wearing something that really is totally inappropriate for them

But we have no way of knowing who is and isn't forced to wear it.

My issue is with the religion tbh. It expects it of a woman but not a man. They are also undeniably uncomfortable in certain weather conditions too yet women at best feel obliged to wear them to please their god. It is truly awful imo. But I care far more about children being made to wear it than I do women choosing to.

Me too Eilzel, and tbh I think M&S should get a backbone and refuse to stock them.

No, I'm not Catholic. I've already confessed (no pun intended) that this is only my experience. But whether I'm inside the group, or outside, I still observe that (1) the school picks the uniforms; and (2) the Catholic kids willingly wear them.

So, again, it appears that both sides willingly acquiesce. A store like M & S is totally outside the loop of choice or decision-making.

No, I'm not Catholic. I've already confessed (no pun intended) that this is only my experience. But whether I'm inside the group, or outside, I still observe that (1) the school picks the uniforms; and (2) the Catholic kids willingly wear them.

So, again, it appears that both sides willingly acquiesce. A store like M & S is totally outside the loop of choice or decision-making.

So you observed a very minute amount of Catholics you know

Not the bases for any study is it?

Just as much as my experince

The idea that schools picks uniforms, has its very bases in religion and control.

It also hase a bases in something called pride, something, I would have thought, you would be against, being a leftist.

Hence the view to take credit, off the pupil, for their achievements. As if they had made that pupil be intelligent. When they only played a minor part.

The reality is this. The only way you are going to help people co-exist, is if they are allowed to dress in what ever they feel comfortable with. Uniforms and religious rules restrict this.

As to cthaolic schools were happy to wear. i can tell you, that, most of us, abused the rules on said uniforms.

Hence in my experince, your claim, is again based on a flase premise.

Its based on your own experince, of not having attended a catholic school, nor know many catholic students

No, I'm not Catholic. I've already confessed (no pun intended) that this is only my experience. But whether I'm inside the group, or outside, I still observe that (1) the school picks the uniforms; and (2) the Catholic kids willingly wear them.

So, again, it appears that both sides willingly acquiesce. A store like M & S is totally outside the loop of choice or decision-making.

Here uniforms are worn by most schools no matter what their faith is, I went to a protestant school but we had to wear uniforms of shirt, tie, jumper skirt for girls trousers for boys in the school colours of maroon and light blue...and a blazer.

No, I'm not Catholic. I've already confessed (no pun intended) that this is only my experience. But whether I'm inside the group, or outside, I still observe that (1) the school picks the uniforms; and (2) the Catholic kids willingly wear them.

So, again, it appears that both sides willingly acquiesce. A store like M & S is totally outside the loop of choice or decision-making.

Here uniforms are worn by most schools no matter what their faith is, I went to a protestant school but we had to wear uniforms of shirt, tie, jumper skirt for girls trousers for boys in the school colours of maroon and light blue...and a blazer.

We don't have anything like that. In the public High School I went to, we only had fraternity jackets with an insignia on it. They made us put a patch over the insignia because they thought it was a sign of status (it was).

Our school (and most in the US) go in the complete opposite direction of uniforms. They want students to blend in.

Religious dress/symbols etc should have no part of schooling, no crosses, no star of David, no Crescent, no hijabs, no kippah, no topknot, no ringlets, no beards. Wear it at home or socially if you must, grow your hair/facial hair when you leave education if you feel you must.

eddie wrote:No, he loved M&S over here. He wanted to find some special secret beer made by them that no one had ever discovered....

I got bored and fucked off to the crisp aisle.

Lol...they do some great crisps and party snacks.Most of their food is nice, but if you haven't tried them buy their millionaires deserts....they are often included in their 'dine in' offers.....heaven.

No, they don't. Although I've only known M & S as a clothing store, if it's as you say it would be comparable with only Target or Walmart here.

I may be wrong but I think our Asda is owned by Walmart.

Yes, asda was acquired by Walmart in a take-over in 1999. But I find it hard to think of stores with both a dry goods and grocery component, like M & S. I can only think of Target, which is French owned, and Walmart.

Yes, asda was acquired by Walmart in a take-over in 1999. But I find it hard to think of stores with both a dry goods and grocery component, like M & S. I can only think of Target, which is French owned, and Walmart.

We have a few stores that sell both, Asda also sell clothes and food.We have some M&S stores which sell only one or the other, but most of the ones I know combine food and clothes ...which makes life easier.