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RE: RCGF Engines

Hi Guys
Iβm having a problem tuning my RCGF45.
A couple of weeks ago the engine started playing up, like it suddenly went way off tune. I played with the needles for a while without any real improvement so I went back to the factory settings and started over. Still no better, I was just about to give up and go home when I noticed the plug had come loose. So all that playing with the needles was a waste of time. I reset the needles to factory again but I still canβt get it right.
I run a 20X10 Xoar prop and a Pitts muffler. Max RPM is 6200 which comes in at ΒΎ throttle with no increase at full throttle. Idle is smooth and transition good but lots of four stroking in the air, I have the cowl off at the moment until I can get this sorted out. Also when the plane is in a steep banked right turn the RPM drops of quite noticeably and my friend at the field noticed it ran much better when the plane was inverted.
Anyone have any suggestions??

RE: RCGF Engines

ORIGINAL: Falcon32

Hi Guys
Iβm having a problem tuning my RCGF45.
A couple of weeks ago the engine started playing up, like it suddenly went way off tune. I played with the needles for a while without any real improvement so I went back to the factory settings and started over. Still no better, I was just about to give up and go home when I noticed the plug had come loose. So all that playing with the needles was a waste of time. I reset the needles to factory again but I still canβt get it right.
I run a 20X10 Xoar prop and a Pitts muffler. Max RPM is 6200 which comes in at ΒΎ throttle with no increase at full throttle. Idle is smooth and transition good but lots of four stroking in the air, I have the cowl off at the moment until I can get this sorted out. Also when the plane is in a steep banked right turn the RPM drops of quite noticeably and my friend at the field noticed it ran much better when the plane was inverted.
Anyone have any suggestions??

Falcon

Move the landing gear to top of fuse?

Seriously though, sounds like it might be a fuel problem. I would check all fuel lines for kinks, pinholes, or looseness. I would also check tank for clunk problems or vent tube problems.

When you said the "plug" was loose, I assume you meant the spark plug. Plug being loose can cause a few problems. The plug wire carries a ground through the braid. Plug being loose can cause it to break ground and not sure if the ignition module would be damaged or not. Also, I would change spark plug to be on the safe side. Be sure to replace with a resister type plug.

RE: RCGF Engines

Hey Falcon,

There could be a bunch of things that you need to check. Make sure that all the bolts are nice and tight. Look at the vacuum hose on top of the carb to make sure it is free of pinholes and not loose. Check your carb and reed block to make sure it is sealed good. I for one have seen more carburetor issues here lately. I have been doing a lot of research into the construction and testing of the carburetors that are used on the RCGF engines. It turns out that HLIC the maker of these carburetors tests their finished product with a liquid flow test process. While this is not a bad way to test it is not the most accurate way to test the flow and it tends to miss things that could cause problems. For those of you that may be interested I did ink the deal with Tillotson today to start carrying their carburetors as replacement carbs for the RCGF engines. The Tillotson carb are tested on an air flow bench with very high rate of quality assurance. I will let you all know how the testing goes as we start replacing all of my RCGF HLIC carbs with the Tillotsons.

RE: RCGF Engines

I've knocked the landing gear off twice, so maybe it would be better on the top
Yes I did mean the spark plug, it was still finger tight and the engine was still running OK but not as good as it should have been.
I've checked everything I can think off and I'm convinced it's a carb problem, just where in the carb I'm not sure.
Must be honest I'm not about to pull the carb to bits so will give the needles one more go and if that doesn't fix it I think I'll do as others have done and replace it with the DLE55 carb.

RE: RCGF Engines

That will work. The DLE carb should be about the same size. For S&G and to be safe I would buy two of them because of performance problems that might come about from mismatched equipment (i.e. Two of the same engine with different carbs)

RE: RCGF Engines

Captmicom
Please excuse my ignorance but I'm not familiar with the term "S&G" , and if you don't mind me asking, why would I buy two?
If the DLE carb will work then that will solve the problem, if it doesn't work, what would be the point of having two?
I'm sure you have a common sense reason for your suggestions, it's just that my "older" brain can't figure it out

RE: RCGF Engines

Falcon 32,
I think he may have you mistaken for me. I have a twin-engined OV-10 Bronco and have some recent posts on this thread regarding carburetor difficulties. BTW, still haven't solved the problem and Monster Planes 2011 is a week away!!
Aeroscale

RE: RCGF Engines

Hey Falcon,

Okβ¦ S&G can be a bunch of things but βSafety and Goodnessβ will do for now.
Pardon me if I may have misunderstood you as well but donβt you have this RCGF 45cc on a twin? If you donβt then please except my apologies for suggesting it. If you do then it would be best for all things matching to run the same carbs on both engines. That is all.

RE: RCGF Engines

Hey Captmicon

Not to worry I know it can be difficult to keep track of all these posts 223 pages WOW
I was hoping to get out to the field today to play with those needles again but it's raining and blowing way too much so it will have to wait.
I'll let you know next time I get a chance to work on it.

RE: RCGF Engines

Fooped,
No. Will give it a last ditch effort today (Sunday). If it doesn't work, the gas Bronco doesn't go to Monster Planes.
What amazes me is how we consumers tolerate (and continue to buy) offshore products with such a generally dismal record for Quality Control and performance. Why else would there be over 200 pages of discussion on this thread alone? Clearly a large percentage of those pages deal with "unhappy" experiences with the product. And the manufacturer, importer, seller, distributor pipeline doesn't seem terribly motivated to address sub-standard performance issues. Must be a cross-culture misunderstanding, huh?

RE: RCGF Engines

Go back and read the very first page of this thread and I think you will arrive at an answer. This seems to be a wide spread problem in this hobby. I try not to get caught up in the "We have the latest,greatest thing to ever hit this hobby for half price and WE(usually a NEW distributer who ain't gonna survive) will stand behind it forever,trust us. YEAH RIGHT

RE: RCGF Engines

ORIGINAL: RACJ

Go back and read the very first page of this thread and I think you will arrive at an answer. This seems to be a wide spread problem in this hobby. I try not to get caught up in the ''We have the latest,greatest thing to ever hit this hobby for half price and WE(usually a NEW distributer who ain't gonna survive) will stand behind it forever,trust us. YEAH RIGHT

And we continue to fall for it! Just noticed......page one of this RCGF thread appeared 3 years ago....so much for lessons learned and suppliers "listening"!
AEROSCALE

RE: RCGF Engines

Still got a some work to do on the covering of my bolt but could not resist firing the engine up at the field, its a rcg 20 beam mount gas engine with a 15 8 3 graupner prop. this is my second 20 cc rcg engine. Idle was great and starts no problem after first run, transition poor at moment as had limited timeto tune engine and simplyset the carb a bit rich for first run as figured would be better than runninglean at any point.

Ran great and will for sure have plenty power for this model, spun the 15 8 3 graupner at 7800 rpm on the first tank, needles on the rich side.

Think it may well be peaked about that rpm though, be suprised if it has much more even after a bit tweeking and run in, very pleased with first run of my second rcg 20 beam mount engine.

I tried a 16 8 3 graupner on my other rcg 20 beam mount and only got 7400 rpm, although the engine spooled up no problem I believe that I underestimated the efficiency of the graupner 3 blade and was needlessly putting to much load on the little engine. Perhaps a less efficient MAS 16 8 3 blade would be more in its range. Will keep the 16 8 3 graupner for the dle 30.

My first rcg 20 engine is still going strong, can hover a 10.5 lb seagull yak, not huge pull out but good vertical. 100 % reliable so far apart for a few dead sticks due to air leak in tank fuel lines that was my fault, faultless since rectified.

RE: RCGF Engines

Aeroscale you may have a gasket leak somewhere between the reed block and the carb. Sounds funny but take a can of WD-40 and spray all dripping wet and choke the engine and see if it will draw fuel. Its a good way to see if you have a cracked or leaking gasket and or reed block. This is assuming your pump diaphram is good and carb needle is not stuck closed or pluged.

RE: RCGF Engines

aeroscale you have two engines exactly the same, one running well the other crap. It should therefore be simple to find the fault.

After checking engine timing on both engines to make sure they are the same (I would check timing on a new engine or poor running engine anyway, I would like to think you have done this as not being funny it is one of the most basic checks you need to do before tuning a simple gas engine) I would systematicallyswap each item I could to work out what part/system is at fault.

For example you could fit the left engine to the right mount and tank plumbing and run and then see if you have a tank fault.

If ok you can then swap carbs and mounting blocks andsee if the fault transfers to the other engine.

You could even then swap plugs, ignition batterys, ignitions and even kill switches if you are still stumped.

failing all that then maybe you have a mechanical fault with the engine, but I dowbt it.

RE: RCGF Engines

Raydar,
Thanks for the input. Fault isolation was no problem; it got me down to the carburetor. I'm told that inconsistencies in manufacturing are not unusual so I was looking for a Walbro replacement number for the Chinese copy.

RE: RCGF Engines

ORIGINAL: RACJ

Go back and read the very first page of this thread and I think you will arrive at an answer. This seems to be a wide spread problem in this hobby. I try not to get caught up in the ''We have the latest,greatest thing to ever hit this hobby for half price and WE(usually a NEW distributer who ain't gonna survive) will stand behind it forever,trust us. YEAH RIGHT

You are mostly correct (and look at post #2, it is I who wrote it!!) but here is what usually actually happens and this is by no means limited to RCGF.

The "latest and greatest new thing" comes out and the "factory" does a good sell to potential distributors. They even send them their best quality engines to start with. A genuine distributor will not release those to the public but wil in fact strip some of them, fly at least one of each and fly it hard and will place some in the hands of others to do their best to destroy them. So far at zero return to the distributor but at full price paid to the factory.

Once that testing is underway (a decent product won't have that testing finished for many hours of running, if the product doesn't last that long, it ain't a good sign). Feedback is given to the "factory" on improvements required and suggestions for future models. In most cases the distributor also writes the operating manuals for the "factory".

The distributor also orders a second batch of product and looks for the improvements to have been made and once satisfied the product is saleable, proceeds to sell them (usually at a very high discount to "get the brand known"). It is at this stage where the future is decided as the customers who bought them somehow have an inane ability to find problems that have not previously shown up. Bearing failures, Leaking crankcases, poor tolerances etc. In order to do the right thing by the customers, replacement engines are provided at no cost and the pile of "spares" starts to stack up. So far each engine the distributor has received has had full price paid to the factory by the distributor so the factory is successful but the distributor is out of pocket but has hopes of making up the loss in the long term.

Eventually the distributor learns to do whatever is required to make the engines a saleable product with little warranty return from the end users. Some customers begin to be happy with what they have gotten and the brand slowly sells more product. Those sales are usually at the discounted price and that will remain from then on as one of the hardest things to do in this hobby (other than a rolling knife edge loop) is to increase the price of a product.

Then come the "kick in the guts".
The "Factory" now sees itself as successful and a new "potential distributor" approaches them to also handle the product in the original distributors very limited market area. (this hobby really isn't that big in most parts of the world). Having made losses to date the original distributor is usually now faced with a price war.
Because the "factory" now "knows" it is successful, QC and real product improvements stop (no need to improve right? - they are making many more sales at full price).
Next comes the factorys inability to keep up with production so parts "acceptance tolerances" widen and the use of lower priced parts begins. Cheaper reed blocks, cheaper metal for castings, cheaper carbs, tumble polished cases sold as "billet machined" etc.

The original distributors by then have usually had enough and have an ever increasing pile of scrap laying on their shelves so they close their door, at least to that particular brand. The cycle then repeats itself - all the while the "factory" continues to make sales at full profit.

3W, BME and DA all the way. Proven power, Proven reliability and Proven support equals much cheaper in the long term.

RE: RCGF Engines

Now - to my own case as an example and think about this as this thread IS many years old since I posted in post # 2 and a lot of attacks have been made on me in that time as I have spoken the facts since then.

I paid the "factory" US$15 more for every engine I ordered specifically to have a Genuine Walbro Carb installed on each engine I received. (there is a Walbro factory in Tianjin). This is partly why every engine I sold has a serial number beginning with "SP" - it stands for "special order". I also stripped every single engine I received from the second order onwards, did my own sealing of the crankcases, Manufactured and installed my own carb insulators (that actually had flat sealing surfaces and metal for the carb bolt threads to screw into) installed my own proper specification of bearings, measured every single component, Manufactured my own prop hubs, reassembled every single engine with the right torque values and test ran and basic tuned every single engine before sending it to a customer.

This was time consuming but it was the only solution to the factory refusal to pick up their game and me being able to supply a consistently reliable product - somethign that matters a lot to my own principles. When I ordered parts to replace some of the faulty parts found during the above process and the factory refused to supply them (and they still refuse to). The factory even contacted other distributors and slandered me by making claims that I had never dealt with their product (how's that for thanks?).

I was forced into a position of no longer being able to supply the brand and am left with significant unsaleable stock that I paid for in full. The rest, as they say, is history.

Meanwhile other distributors falsely advertised that their RCGF's had Genuine Walbro carbs fitted. When I approached a couple of them about this they spun some line about how they were "unbranded" walbros (yeah - right).

I also note that the same problems that I tried to address years ago are still rearing their ugly heads with the brand - leaking carb blocks, poor carbs, leaking crankcases.

Meanwhile, I have not disappeared (I know others have done though) and I am still servicing the engine that I sold (No - I am not servicing those sold by others) all at my own cost. In fact many have since been replaced (at my cost) with alternative products. One of the benefits of having stripped every engine that went through my business is that I was able to mark each one so as to recognise if it did in fact come through my business. I have had a couple of people claim warranty from me on engines that never came through me. The only reason my website is still running is to give my old customers a contact point for me and that will remain so until a set time after the last warranty period has expired on any product I sell.

See my Sig line? there is a reason I wrote that many years ago.

Meanwhile - the factory continues to sell to the latest "distributors" at full profit and can go enjoy their money to find the next product to take away your jobs.

I wonder how long these last 2 posts of mine will be up before the distributors complain and get them removed and I get another slap over the wrist about being mean.

Aeroscale - change your carbs, change your carb blocks (or at least sand them flat and install metal thread inserts), check the sealing of your crankcase and you will most likely have 2 sweet running engines. I have always said the 45cc is the best product RCGF ever made (some prop hubs excluded).

3W, BME and DA all the way. Proven power, Proven reliability and Proven support equals much cheaper in the long term.