Per ESPN.com's Rumor Central teaser blurb (sorry, I am not an Insider member), Torii Hunter will NOT entertain a "hometown discount" to stay in Minnesota for less than $12M/year.

Given that Paulie took 5 yrs/$60M to stay here, I have two questions for discussion:

1) Is Torii worth $12M/ year?
2) Do you think he'll get it from somebody else?

SMO
:gulp:

palehozenychicty

08-24-2006, 07:11 PM

1) No. His legs have been beat up the past couple of years, where that awful twinkie dome turf is taking a toll on him.

2)Yes. i am thinking that the red sawx would overpay for him with the crisp disaster, et. al.

bluestar

08-24-2006, 07:12 PM

1) No.
2) I am sure someone will give him that much. I could see Boston or the Angels, both teams that could use him, paying that much for him.

PennStater98r

08-24-2006, 07:22 PM

That piece of crap doesn't deserve twelve dollars a year. Some bone head will write the cheque though - no doubt about it.

SpartanSoxFan

08-24-2006, 07:27 PM

1) No. His legs have been beat up the past couple of years, where that awful twinkie dome turf is taking a toll on him.

2)Yes. i am thinking that the red sawx would overpay for him with the crisp disaster, et. al.

I agree that he is beat up from playing on that turf crap and is DEFINETELY not worth $12M/year.

I realize that this is off topic here, but how could you say Crisp is a disaster? He is part of the reason the Red Sox have a formidable defense this year.

Tragg

08-24-2006, 07:28 PM

a)No
b)No

palehozenychicty

08-24-2006, 07:49 PM

I realize that this is off topic here, but how could you say Crisp is a disaster? He is part of the reason the Red Sox have a formidable defense this year.

Defensively, he's been solid. But he's been horrible with the bat ever since he returned from the broken finger in June and the Beantown media has buried him a la Renteria. That being said, I would take him as a replacement for Pods next year. He still has potential to be a solid player.

Tragg

08-24-2006, 07:54 PM

Defensively, he's been solid. But he's been horrible with the bat ever since he returned from the broken finger in June and the Beantown media has buried him a la Renteria. That being said, I would take him as a replacement for Pods next year. He still has potential to be a solid player.

He ought to come cheap. I think we should look at Wilkerson, who had been a good OBP guy, for that same reason...bad year and should be cheap.

Lip Man 1

08-24-2006, 08:21 PM

Anything that gets him out of the Sox division is fine with me. I'd rather face that moron six times a year then 19.

Lip

PKalltheway

08-24-2006, 08:47 PM

Anything that gets him out of the Sox division is fine with me. I'd rather face that moron six times a year then 19.

Lip
Anything that gets him out of the American League is fine with me. I'd rather face him just three times in a year, if at all.

maurice

08-24-2006, 09:06 PM

Coco is playing slightly under his mediocre career averages. OTOH, his SB% is nice (though he has relatively few attempts), and he's excellent defensively compared to most LF (especially ours). In his previous two (healthy) seasons, he batted around .300. At age 26, he could improve a lot in the coming years . . . or not.

Hunter to Boston; Coco to the Sox? I wouldn't be surprised if KW made this move.

SoxSpeed22

08-24-2006, 09:09 PM

Hunter to Boston; Coco to the Sox? I wouldn't be surprised if KW made this move.I can live with that. As long as Crisp doesn't forget how to steal. Gives me another reason to root against Boston.

batmanZoSo

08-24-2006, 09:24 PM

For about half that I'd take him. Anderson in left, Hunter in center, Dye in right. :drool:

TheOldRoman

08-24-2006, 09:29 PM

I agree that he is beat up from playing on that turf crap and is DEFINETELY not worth $12M/year.

I realize that this is off topic here, but how could you say Crisp is a disaster? He is part of the reason the Red Sox have a formidable defense this year.
The Red Sox don't have a formidable defense, that is ESPN using smoke and mirrors. The Red Sox have a high fielding percentage, but they are defensively one of the worst teams in baseball. Lowell has a really good %, but he has the range of a fire hydrant. He may make less errors than Crede, but Crede gets to more balls. They only have one good defender, and that is Alex Gonzalez at SS. The rest of them are slow and suck. Hell, look at Manny this year - .994 fielding percentage. That means he has only made 1 error. However, he misplays a ball into a hit on a regular basis, but doesn't get charged with an error.

As for Hunter, I don't think he is worth even half that. He is a mediocre hitter at best. He is a very good defender, though extremely overrated. How in the HELL can a career .268 hitter with a .323 OBP have the gall to ask for $12 mil a year?!
That being said, he might come close. Boston is dumb, and the Cubs are dumber. Someone will overpay.

TheOldRoman

08-24-2006, 09:30 PM

For about half that I'd take him. Anderson in left, Hunter in center, Dye in right. :drool:
:tsk:
Brian is a better defender in CF than Hunter. Don't let the robbed HRs fool you. Besides that, I dont want him.

Timmy D's

08-24-2006, 09:31 PM

Anything that gets him out of the American League is fine with me. I'd rather face him just three times in a year, if at all.

Exactly!!!!! Hell, maybe flubbies will pick him up, and that will surely end his career.

maurice

08-24-2006, 09:44 PM

LMAO, imagine Hunter joining Jones on the Cubs! How long before the first faceoff with some racist tool in the bleachers, including a Hunter rant about how he's a "tough guy from the 'hood (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=459178&postcount=8)" (aka Arkansas)?

RadioheadRocks

08-24-2006, 09:48 PM

Uh-oh... getting SNL flashbacks again!!!

"Daddy, can I have $12 million?" "Absolutely Torii!"

"Daddy, can I have my own fragrance?" "Absolutely Torii!" :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

I don't buy that. Hunter's amazing at going back on balls. Laterally and throwing, Anderson has a slight edge.

SoxSpeed22

08-24-2006, 09:50 PM

:tsk:
Brian is a better defender in CF than Hunter. Don't let the robbed HRs fool you. Besides that, I dont want him.Speaking of which, I have never seen him make the kind of catch that BA made today. I'll take BA for much cheaper.
Edit: Wherever he ends up, the more misery, the better.

Trav

08-24-2006, 10:05 PM

LMAO, imagine Hunter joining Jones on the Cubs! How long before the first faceoff with some racist tool in the bleachers, including a Hunter rant about how he's a "tough guy from the 'hood (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=459178&postcount=8)" (aka Arkansas)?

Have you ever been to Pine Bluff? It isn't a nice place. It is exactly a "hood".

And there is no way he is good enough for $12 mil but there is always someone who will overpay. Who is his agent?

maurice

08-24-2006, 10:49 PM

Pine Bluff is the 6th largest town in the 36th largest state, behind major metropolises like Ft. Smith, Fayetteville, and Jonesboro. It's relatively poor and majority black, but the entire town is half the size of Peoria, IL and primarily agricultural. (Other IL reference points: it's significantly smaller than Decatur and about the same size as Belleville.) Pine Bluff, Arkansas is not even a "city" by any conventional definition, much less a city with "a 'hood." Compared to Chicago, it's an absolute hick town.

I'm sure that Hunter's "Pine Bluff street cred" is very intimidating in, say, Hot Springs...but it doesn't (and shouldn't) hold a lot of weight in the City of Chicago (or New York or LA). It was a laughably ridiculous (pine) bluff.

TheOldRoman

08-24-2006, 10:52 PM

I don't buy that. Hunter's amazing at going back on balls. Laterally and throwing, Anderson has a slight edge.
That may have to do with how deep he plays. Hunter plays very deep inorder to make the highlight reel grabs. However, lots of hits fall in front of him that Anderson would get to because he plays so shallow. Great defensive CFs play shallow because they know they can get back on anything hit over their heads.

Trav

08-24-2006, 11:30 PM

Pine Bluff is the 6th largest town in the 36th largest state, behind major metropolises like Ft. Smith, Fayetteville, and Jonesboro. It's relatively poor and majority black, but the entire town is half the size of Peoria, IL and primarily agricultural. (Other IL reference points: it's significantly smaller than Decatur and about the same size as Belleville.) Pine Bluff, Arkansas is not even a "city" by any conventional definition, much less a city with "a 'hood." Compared to Chicago, it's an absolute hick town.

I'm sure that Hunter's "Pine Bluff street cred" is very intimidating in, say, Hot Springs...but it doesn't (and shouldn't) hold a lot of weight in the City of Chicago (or New York or LA). It was a laughably ridiculous (pine) bluff.

I'll play...

According to this link, http://www.bestplaces.net/docs/studies/crime1.aspx, Pine Bluff is the 2nd worst city to live in terms of crime with a population under 200,000.

It is mostly poor, with 25% of the population living below the poverty line per wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_Bluff

It may not be big but it isn't a nice place to live. I would classify this city or town, as it were, as a 'hood.

asindc

08-25-2006, 12:07 AM

1. No.

2. Somebody might, like Boston or even the Cubs.

StillMissOzzie

08-25-2006, 01:45 AM

These comments will tie together the El Caballo / Torii Hunter FA discussions. Hunter, per ESPN.com, is expecting $12M/yr for X yrs. Lee has already turned down a 4 yr/$48M (eg., $12M/yr) offer from Milwaukee. Per Baseball reference, I have these offensive numbers, averages over their career:

Lee outshines Hunter in all of these offensive measures. OTOH, Lee's defense is a liability compared to Hunter. Again, with PK at 5 yrs/$60M (again, that $12M/yr level), I find it hard to believe for either of these guys to "demand" $12M/yr or more.

I have no idea if the money, years, or lack of winning prospects are what led to Lee declining Milwaukee's offer, but I will be surprised if he gets more elsewhere. That said, I still think he's gonna get more than Hunter.

SMO
:gulp:

batmanZoSo

08-25-2006, 01:49 AM

These comments will tie together the El Caballo / Torii Hunter FA discussions. Hunter, per ESPN.com, is expecting $12M/yr for X yrs. Lee has already turned down a 4 yr/$48M (eg., $12M/yr) offer from Milwaukee. Per Baseball reference, I have these offensive numbers, averages over their career:

Lee outshines Hunter in all of these offensive measures. OTOH, Lee's defense is a liability compared to Hunter. Again, with PK at 5 yrs/$60M (again, that $12M/yr level), I find it hard to believe for either of these guys to "demand" $12M/yr or more.

I have no idea if the money, years, or lack of winning prospects are what led to Lee declining Milwaukee's offer, but I will be surprised if he gets more elsewhere. That said, I still think he's gonna get more than Hunter.

SMO
:gulp:

That's why I never liked Lee and was glad when we got rid of him.

Railsplitter

08-25-2006, 10:42 AM

2) Do you think he'll get it from somebody else?

:gulp:

Yes, hopefully, the Sox. If not, an NL team.

spiffie

08-25-2006, 10:46 AM

Yes, hopefully, the Sox. If not, an NL team.
If we pay Torii Hunter 12 million a year, and it is not part of a payroll expansion to $150 million so we can get another top starter and upgrades at LF and SS, you can rest assured I will spend all 3 days of SoxFest walking behind Kenny Williams and yelling "WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?!" at him.

Domeshot17

08-25-2006, 10:50 AM

If we pay Torii Hunter 12 million a year, and it is not part of a payroll expansion to $150 million so we can get another top starter and upgrades at LF and SS, you can rest assured I will spend all 3 days of SoxFest walking behind Kenny Williams and yelling "WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?!" at him.

Dude, This is Kenny Williams, after 3 minutes of that he would turn around and hit you so hard you won't wake up until the all star break

chaerulez

08-25-2006, 10:59 AM

I agree that he is beat up from playing on that turf crap and is DEFINETELY not worth $12M/year.

I realize that this is off topic here, but how could you say Crisp is a disaster? He is part of the reason the Red Sox have a formidable defense this year.

I'll gladly take Crisp off their hands for Vazquez. The Boston media is stupid, they ran off Renteria and he's having a pretty decent year down in Atlanta. And hopefully this leads to a deal where Crisp can come to the White Sox, I'll take him over Pods in LF.

spiffie

08-25-2006, 11:03 AM

Dude, This is Kenny Williams, after 3 minutes of that he would turn around and hit you so hard you won't wake up until the all star break
Signing a .268 career hitting CF to a 12 million a year contract would pretty much in one fell swoop remove the Chuck Norris-like air of awesomeness around Kenny. I mean seriously, if you assume that Brian Anderson is more likely to play the way he has post ASB than pre-ASB, there is hardly any upgrade for the extra 11 and a half million dollars Torii would cost.

Anderson post-ASB: 281/327/427/754
Hunter 2006: 274/346/464/810

ma-gaga

08-25-2006, 11:17 AM

I don't think he'll get $12mm, but he'll probably get $10-$11mm. Someone like San Francisco seems like they may be dumb enough to sign him to a 4 yr - $40mm deal.

He's got a decent bat for a CF. And his defense is still solid, but he's definitely lost a step. Realistically two. The W.Sox would be morons to pay him what he wants.

The Twins would be morons to pay him what he wants. If I were a GM, I'd give him a maximum 3 year - $24mm deal, tops. But really, this is part of his master plan. Torii's been laying the groundwork for his exit from Minny all year long. Making assinine comments like "I don't want to go thru rebuilding", and "I want to play for a contender", which at one time sounded like pretty sound arguments, but then Torii got hurt, the Twins made some other roster moves, and started winning some games.

Now even the most ardent of his defenders realize that Torii's the 5th or 6th best hitter on the team. And he's definitely not worth the price tag.

:cool: So, him and Barry Bonds next year. I can see it now. What a team.

spiffie

08-25-2006, 11:28 AM

:cool: So, him and Barry Bonds next year. I can see it now. What a team.
:everett:

"I want in on this action...sounds like a place with some real team leaders to me."

drewcifer

08-25-2006, 11:30 AM

Put me down for a double negative.

Foulke You

08-25-2006, 12:35 PM

I don't think he'll get $12mm, but he'll probably get $10-$11mm. Someone like San Francisco seems like they may be dumb enough to sign him to a 4 yr - $40mm deal.

He's got a decent bat for a CF. And his defense is still solid, but he's definitely lost a step. Realistically two. The W.Sox would be morons to pay him what he wants.

The Twins would be morons to pay him what he wants. If I were a GM, I'd give him a maximum 3 year - $24mm deal, tops. But really, this is part of his master plan. Torii's been laying the groundwork for his exit from Minny all year long. Making assinine comments like "I don't want to go thru rebuilding", and "I want to play for a contender", which at one time sounded like pretty sound arguments, but then Torii got hurt, the Twins made some other roster moves, and started winning some games.

Now even the most ardent of his defenders realize that Torii's the 5th or 6th best hitter on the team. And he's definitely not worth the price tag.

:cool: So, him and Barry Bonds next year. I can see it now. What a team.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong here Ma-Gaga but doesn't the emergence of the slick hitting/fielding Jason Tyner pretty much grease the skids even more for Hunter's departure? Tyner looked very comfortable out in CF when he was filling in for Hunter and I remember made several nice defensive plays out there against the Sox. Tyner also puts the ball in play a hell of a lot more than Hunter does.

caulfield12

08-25-2006, 01:42 PM

The rap on Tyner has been that he wears down and isn't an everyday player, susceptible to being exposed over too many AB's. He's held up quite well this season.

But he's been around a long time, been waived something like 6 or 7 times...most GM's wouldn't be bold enough to let Hunter go and start Tyner in that position.

The other thing they need to do is open up a place in LF for Kubel. Obviously, he's a DH now because of the knee injury/recovery, but the best situation would be for Morneau/Kubel to alternate at DH with Mauer playing 1B 33% of the time to cut down on wear and tear over the course of a season.

Foulke You

08-25-2006, 01:45 PM

The rap on Tyner has been that he wears down and isn't an everyday player, susceptible to being exposed over too many AB's. He's held up quite well this season.

But he's been around a long time, been waived something like 6 or 7 times...most GM's wouldn't be bold enough to let Hunter go and start Tyner in that position.

The other thing they need to do is open up a place in LF for Kubel. Obviously, he's a DH now because of the knee injury/recovery, but the best situation would be for Morneau/Kubel to alternate at DH with Mauer playing 1B 33% of the time to cut down on wear and tear over the course of a season.
Hmmm...that's interesting. I didn't know that Tyner had been around a while. Maybe my perception of him is a bit skewed because he plays so well against the Sox.

caulfield12

08-25-2006, 01:57 PM

Hmmm...that's interesting. I didn't know that Tyner had been around a while. Maybe my perception of him is a bit skewed because he plays so well against the Sox.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/t/tynerja01.shtml#TRANS

Tyner is 29 years old and NOT too far behind Hunter and Pods in terms of age. He's at the back end of his most productive years being a threat on the bases before taking a wrong turn under the tarp ala Vince Coleman.

ma-gaga

08-25-2006, 02:28 PM

but doesn't the emergence of the slick hitting/fielding Jason Tyner pretty much grease the skids even more for Hunter's departure?

I think their 11-3 record with Hunter on the DL solidified the opinion on how much the Twins need him. Tyner helped, but what he really did was over-expose how much Torii is overhyped.

Hunter's a nice player to have, but he's no longer an impact player. :cool:

D. TODD

08-25-2006, 02:49 PM

I think their 11-3 record with Hunter on the DL solidified the opinion on how much the Twins need him. Tyner helped, but what he really did was over-expose how much Torii is overhyped.

Hunter's a nice player to have, but he's no longer an impact player. :cool:Hunter has been coming up with the big longballs for the Twinks, since his return though. I'm hoping he is quiet this weekend at least.

Bill Naharodny

08-25-2006, 11:10 PM

I think their 11-3 record with Hunter on the DL solidified the opinion on how much the Twins need him. Tyner helped, but what he really did was over-expose how much Torii is overhyped.

Hunter's a nice player to have, but he's no longer an impact player. :cool:

Hmm . . .

Nellie_Fox

08-26-2006, 12:40 AM

Hunter has been coming up with the big longballs for the Twinks, since his return though. I'm hoping he is quiet this weekend at least.How'd that work out for us?

soxinem1

08-28-2006, 06:09 PM

1) No. His legs have been beat up the past couple of years, where that awful twinkie dome turf is taking a toll on him.

2)Yes. i am thinking that the red sawx would overpay for him with the crisp disaster, et. al.