Creationism Spreading in Schools, Thanks to Vouchers

I first began investigating creationist school vouchers as my part of my fight against creationism in my home state of Louisiana. Over the past few months, I’ve learned creationist vouchers aren’t just a Louisiana problem—they’re an American problem. School vouchers are, as James Gill recently wrote in the New Orleans Times-Picayune, ‘the answer to a creationist’s prayer.’

Liberty Christian School, in Anderson, Indiana, has field trips to the Creation Museum and students learn from the creationist A Beka curriculum. Kingsway Christian School, in Avon, Indiana, also has Creation Museum field trips. Mansfield Christian School, in Ohio, teaches science through the creationist Answers in Genesis website, run by the founder of the Creation Museum. The school’s Philosophy of Science page says, “the literal view of creation is foundational to a Biblical World View.” All three of these schools, and more than 300 schools like them, are receiving taxpayer money.

So far, I have documented 310 schools, in nine states and the District of Columbia that are teaching creationism, and receiving tens of millions of dollars in public money through school voucher programs.

There is no doubt that there are hundreds more creationist voucher schools that have yet to be identified. The more than 300 schools I have already found are those that have publicly stated on their websites that they teach creationism or use creationist curricula.

This really is the main purpose of school vouchers — to allow right wing parents to keep their children ignorant, while the religious schools that teach creationism, climate change denial and other anti-science garbage still get the benefit of state money.

Vouchers are bad for America. They were conceived as a tool to help the religious right maintain their bubble of magical thinking.

The whole voucher debate is one of the most most pervasive and corrosive ideas from the right. It’s bad for education, fosters class and racial divides, but has a reputation of somehow being “better” than a public school.

The whole voucher debate is one of the most most pervasive and corrosive ideas from the right. It’s bad for education, fosters class and racial divides, but has a reputation of somehow being “better” than a public school.

There’s a significant number of Democrats who fall for this, too.

Yes, the Democrats need to stand for something. Not being Republicans (i.e., RW nut jobs) is an essential first step, but it is also a terribly low bar.

Democrats are more like Lucy, James. They’re more into holding the football and pulling it away when Republicans try to kick it.

/I’m kidding, but I couldn’t resist the Peanuts joke.

Please the republicans are like Lucy in that every time they offer a compromise or idea and the democrats try to move on it, they suddenly reveal that they hate that idea now that democrats like it, see cap and trade, or the healthcare mandate.

The schedule for the Gospel Coalition’s biennial conference this spring is now available. The line-up makes for interesting reading and it is definitely good to see that the question of Adam and Eve’s historicity will be addressed. It is one of the big questions in the evangelical world at this time. [ And only there, btw.]

[…]

On a somewhat related issue, a little while back I found myself on the receiving end of various critical responses when I wondered aloud on Ref21 about why complementarianism is considered to be a matter of gospel fidelity by groups like TGC. Just for clarification: I am a complementarian. In fact, I am fairly sure that I am stricter (ironically) on the matter in both conviction and in church practice than many in those groups to whom I was alluding. And I hold the position simply because I believe the account of the special creation of Adam and Eve in Genesis and its application by Paul in passages such as 1 Tim. 2:12-14.

[…]

To clear up what is at stake here, let’s go to another religious writer who describes what is at stake (and why he’s not big into the whole issue):

What you might hear many complementarians argue for is that God established a clear ‘creation order’ from the beginning in regards to the role of men and women. 1 Timothy 2:12-13 clarifies this by stating:

I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve.

Adam was formed first, not Eve. And in God’s good creation order, we are exactly why women can never teach or exercise authority over men. She must be silent in such situations. So the argument goes.

[…]

Literally creationists are out to enforce an ancient social paradigm - Patriarchy. It’s part of that old “worldview” about which I keep harping.

The push to instill creationism into the minds of young people is, among other things, to reinforce the idea that men rule over women.

Creationism is at least a twofer —- 1) promoting abject stupidity in the population is politically useful for the GOP, and 2) promotion of religious fanaticism/bigotry is also politically useful for the GOP.

Everyone forgets the purpose of busing was to get the perpetually under privileged to the possibility of privilege. HORROR.

The intentions were good, but the idea did not work well. RWC was asked by James FC to come up with an example of where the left had “children’s minds made into political footballs”, and in his opinion and mine forced busing fits the bill. It’s equivalency to school vouchers and creationism is not relevant to the challenge James laid down. Though I will note it was RWC and not Ojoe who answered the challenge with a concrete example.

Redesigning bus routes? I think you have no clue what I referred to.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
I lived this damn mess. Kids were taken from horrible neighborhoods with awful violent schools and taken to better schools in a ethnic/social engineering effort. Which would have been fine. Until it was decided kids just like me would have to be taken to those awful schools for “balance”. Sure take those kids brought up in gentle Caucasian suburbia and send them to Watts for school. Add an hour or longer commute to an already challenging education. Take kids from kind neighborhoods to Crips ridden areas. Effing brilliant if you want to subvert the actual learning experience.

It was bullshit. It just let the school system off the hook for improving the bad schools. My parent s chose to buy a home and invest an an area that had good schools. Then LAUSD decided that was not acceptable. It was the worst example of how to desegregate ever.

The intentions were good, but the idea did not work well. RWC was asked by James FC to come up with an example of where the left had “children’s minds made into political footballs”, and in his opinion and mine forced busing fits the bill. It’s equivalency to school vouchers and creationism is not relevant to the challenge James laid down. Though I will note it was RWC and not Ojoe who answered the challenge with a concrete example.

Also notice that I said “recent” if the best example you can come up with is something that dates back to the sixties, and started to die out pretty heavily by the eighties well that is pretty weak tea.

First, you have to assume residential segregation was not in any way “political mind football’ for the kids affected.

Political amnesia 101. To whine most piteously about affirmative action, it is first necessary to forget all advantages accrued by the privileged prior to considering a particular affirmative action program.

By now it is crystal clear that a big chunk of the US only accepts the basic premises of public education if school taxes are used only for their children or for other children that are sufficiently like their children, and if the ideals taught in schools are sufficiently close to their own.

While this isn’t a disaster on its face, excessively narrow views of “sufficiently like” and “sufficiently close” are a problem.

Guys at the risk of being one of those liberals who complains about equality of outcome, I do not get why post 10 is rated at +2 and post 14 is rated at -2 (even after I up dinged it to try and even out things) when both are expressing support for the idea that forced busing was liberals using the minds of children as a political football…

Guys at the risk of being one of those liberals who complains about equality of outcome, I do not get why post 10 is rated at +2 and post 14 is rated at -2 (even after I up dinged it to try and even out things) when both are expressing support for the idea that forced busing was liberals using the minds of children as a political football…

Everyone forgets the purpose of busing was to get the perpetually under privileged to the possibility of privilege. HORROR.

Hey I wanted those kids to have better opportunities. I had no objection to them in my school at all. Maybe I was atypical, I spent many a weekend at 3rd avenue and slauson where my grandparents lived in south central. I had a diverse upbringing.

What I hated was sending me and my friends down there without any option short of private schooling or home schooling. LAUSD failed at providing good schools in those neighborhoods. Not benign neglect. Dismal mismanagement.

My point is Ojoe had a point-Kids are not pawns for experimentation. By anyone. Not creationists, not anyone.

Guys at the risk of being one of those liberals who complains about equality of outcome, I do not get why post 10 is rated at +2 and post 14 is rated at -2 (even after I up dinged it to try and even out things) when both are expressing support for the idea that forced busing was liberals using the minds of children as a political football…

Can my fellow lizards help me figure this out?

My downding was for this particular lizard’s pathological need to place everything he encounters in this life into a “left” or “right” cubby hole…particularly this idea which received the approval of judges across the political spectrum.

Jesus Christ, I know DF has a ton of faults but i really havenever got a racist vibe from him. Do we have to jump down his throat just because? I really do not get why he is seeing so much hate, or at least why he is and Politica Aithiest isn’t, since PA was the first one to bring up forced bussing…

The principal of the Claiborne Christian School, in West Monroe, Louisiana, says in a school newsletter, “Our position at CCS on the age of the Earth and other issues is that any theory that goes against God’s Word is in error.” She also claims that scientists are “sinful men” trying to explain the world “without God” so they don’t have to be “morally accountable to Him.”

And a Jesus Christ for you to DF! Is it that hard to take a stand against racism? PA seems to be making a decent case that busing might have been well meaning but have had problems in its execution (an idea that put forth by democrats that was well meaning but problematic to fully implement someone fetch me my fainting couch) but are you really so in love with your self immolation that you can’t take a stand against organized racism?

The problem is James that earlier in my life I was quite afraid of ‘the ghetto’ and badly wanted to keep it at bay, a concern for many young and old in Chicago back in the 1980’s/ early 90’s. I’ve grown up much since then and I now live on the same floor as more than one black condo owner. But I remember how I used to feel and I struggled to put my changing thoughts into words.

So I can say that I oppose segregation now, but that was not always the case.

You like many at the time are okay with one of the most misguided efforts at desegregation ever. The end does not justify the means.

Creationism does not risk a violent outcome. Sending suburb kids to gang territory does take that risk. Some paid the price in injury.

How about this-Fix the crappy schools. That was the other available fix that LAUSD chose not to undertake. And the city turned it’s back on those neighborhoods and it’s citizens too. Which led in the end to riots not just once but twice. Deadly destructive riots.

And a Jesus Christ for you to DF! Is it that hard to take a stand against racism? PA seems to be making a decent case that busing might have been well meaning but have had problems in its execution (an idea that put forth by democrats that was well meaning but problematic to fully implement someone fetch me my fainting couch) but are you really so in love with your self immolation that you can’t take a stand against organized racism?

You like many at the time are okay with one of the most misguided efforts at desegregation ever. The end does not justify the means.

Creationism does not risk a violent outcome. Sending suburb kids to gang territory does take that risk. Some paid the price in injury.

How about this-Fix the crappy schools. That was the other available fix that LAUSD chose not to undertake. And the city turned it’s back on those neighborhoods and it’s citizens too. Which led in the end to riots not just once but twice. Deadly destructive riots.

It does not risk a violent outcome but it does risk harming the kids who are exposed to it handicapping them mentally making it so that they and in turn the US in general can not compete on a technological level with the rest of the world,

It is best that we do not forget this as there are ways other than physical violence to harm a child.

You like many at the time are okay with one of the most misguided efforts at desegregation ever. The end does not justify the means.

Creationism does not risk a violent outcome. Sending suburb kids to gang territory does take that risk. Some paid the price in injury.

How about this-Fix the crappy schools. That was the other available fix that LAUSD chose not to undertake. And the city turned it’s back on those neighborhoods and it’s citizens too. Which led in the end to riots not just once but twice. Deadly destructive riots.

Busing was the easier path. Fixing the schools ultimately requires at least partially fixing the culture the student come from. But culture is a very stubborn opponent, and most attempts by politicians to change a culture end in failure. So the politicians take the easy route and hope things get better.

How about this-Fix the crappy schools. That was the other available fix that LAUSD chose not to undertake. And the city turned it’s back on those neighborhoods and it’s citizens too. Which led in the end to riots not just once but twice. Deadly destructive riots.

Sorry, but from my experience, asking modern conservatives to give an effort towards the improvement of things outside their direct influence is a total dead letter.

I have already conceded that busing had its flaws. It remains true that doing nothing about segregation was not an option, and I suspect that improving the schools as you propose was also a political impossibility at the time (it certainly hasn’t gotten any easier to improve schools between now and then).

Putting creationism into schools is the intellectual equivalent of putting anthrax in the school lunch program —- there is no conceivable upside to this. No problem is being solved this way. There is nothing to discuss. It is a no brainer.

This level of absolutism does not apply to the pros and cons of the busing debate, and that is where the MBF falls apart.

Nothing about busing is equivalent to the deliberate destruction of rational thought that is creationism in the schools.

Busing was the easier path. Fixing the schools ultimately requires at least partially fixing the culture the student come from. But culture is a very stubborn opponent, and most attempts by politicians to change a culture end in failure. So the politicians take the easy route and hope things get better.

Some of the culture that needed to get fixed was the culture that let kids grow up in all lilly white school environment thus making it easier to class people of other races as not part of their “tribe” and discriminate against them either as bullying children or as adults who wielded real power.

And a Jesus Christ for you to DF! Is it that hard to take a stand against racism? PA seems to be making a decent case that busing might have been well meaning but have had problems in its execution (an idea that put forth by democrats that was well meaning but problematic to fully implement someone fetch me my fainting couch) but are you really so in love with your self immolation that you can’t take a stand against organized racism?

The problem is James that earlier in my life I was quite afraid of ‘the ghetto’ and badly wanted to keep it at bay, a concern for many young and old in Chicago back in the 1980’s/ early 90’s. I’ve grown up much since then and I now live on the same floor as more than one black condo owner. But I remember how I used to feel and I struggled to put my changing thoughts into words.

So I can say that I oppose segregation now, but that was not always the case.

The problem is James that earlier in my life I was quite afraid of ‘the ghetto’ and badly wanted to keep it at bay, a concern for many young and old in Chicago back in the 1980’s/ early 90’s. I’ve grown up much since then and I now live on the same floor as more than one black condo owner. But I remember how I used to feel and I struggled to put my changing thoughts into words.

So I can say that I oppose segregation now, but that was not always the case.

Thank you for taking the time to put your feelings into words and express themselves, I do not look down on people for beliefs they held when I was still learning how to tie my shoes (and get the right shoe on the right foot for that matter) what really matters is that as you grew up you matured and came around on the issue.

Some of the culture that needed to get fixed was the culture that let kids grow up in all Lilly white school environment thus making it easier to class people of other races as not part of their “tribe” and discriminate against them either as bullying children or as adults who wielded real power.

One result of being educated in that kind of privileged environment:
John Mackey thinks Obamacare is “fascism.”
[Link: www.mediaite.com…]

Thank you for taking the time to put your feelings into words and express themselves, I do not look down on people for beliefs they held when I was still learning how to tie my shoes (and get the right shoe on the right foot for that matter) what really matters is that as you grew up you matured and came around on the issue.

Thanks. I also revised my previous post with the real answer, but left the cop out stricken through so it’s not a cover up. I try to be honest and I thank you for helping me to be so.

The problem is James that earlier in my life I was quite afraid of ‘the ghetto’ and badly wanted to keep it at bay, a concern for many young and old in Chicago back in the 1980’s/ early 90’s. I’ve grown up much since then and I now live on the same floor as more than one black condo owner. But I remember how I used to feel and I struggled to put my changing thoughts into words.

So I can say that I oppose segregation now, but that was not always the case.

Fucking A Dark.

Scared white people are holding back equality. Absolutely. If you dudes would give it up, imagine.

Go around asking people if they’re willing to improve the education of people in disadvantaged areas, which is something that would lower crime and save money in the long term for cities everywhere. I guarantee you the answer would test your faith in humanity.

Thanks. I also revised my previous post with the real answer, but left the cop out stricken through so it’s not a cover up. I try to be honest and I thank you for helping me to be so.

I am all about asking questions, especially the ones with thought provoking answers, even if it caused this thread to take a really weird turn, but that is not your fault and people should not be (solely) jumping your throat because of it.

The problem is James that earlier in my life I was quite afraid of ‘the ghetto’ and badly wanted to keep it at bay, a concern for many young and old in Chicago back in the 1980’s/ early 90’s. I’ve grown up much since then and I now live on the same floor as more than one black condo owner. But I remember how I used to feel and I struggled to put my changing thoughts into words.

So I can say that I oppose segregation now, but that was not always the case.

I attended Illinois Tech in the South Side of Chicago in 1982/83. I remember Freshman Orientation where they warned us not to venture off campus on foot/alone/at night. I grew up hanging out and partying in Detroit, so I’m like.. yeah right. I went all over the place and never had a problem. I still miss the red hot Italian sausages from Joeys at 31st and the Dan Ryan.

For reals. This issue is so irrelevant to the conversation regarding creationism, that it’s amazing anyone would bring it up in 2013- the only people today who benefit from the loaded term “forced busing” are allied with racists. This axe don’t grind no more.

I’d like to point out the anti-semitism in this curriculum, and the racism in general, to show another reason beyond crippling the US’s scientific capability that this is scary shit. This is the sort of teaching that allows people to grow up and think it’s okay to segregate, to enact special laws against Jews. The state and church together teaching that Jews are evil, that blacks are a different species— it’s dangerous, dangerous stuff.

I’d like to point out the anti-semitism in this curriculum, and the racism in general, to show another reason beyond crippling the US’s scientific capability that this is scary shit. This is the sort of teaching that allows people to grow up and think it’s okay to segregate, to enact special laws against Jews. The state and church together teaching that Jews are evil, that blacks are a different species— it’s dangerous, dangerous stuff.

The RW nutjobs correctly see public education as a vehicle by which certain values can be fostered in children, and are determined to destroy the system if they can’t indoctrinate as they wish.

Meanwhile, RW home schooling curricula can have troubling points of resemblance to what passes for education in places like parts of the middle east.

Instructional material in two school districts teach that racial diversity today can be traced back to Noah’s sons, a long-discredited claim that has been a foundational component of some forms of racism.

Religious bias is common, with most courses taught from a Protestant — often a conservative Protestant — perspective. One course, for example, assumes Christians will at some point be “raptured.” Materials include a Venn diagram showing the pros and cons of theories that posit the rapture before the returning Jesus’ 1,000-year reign and those that place it afterward. In many courses, the perspectives of Roman Catholics, Orthodox Christians and Jews are often left out.

Anti-Jewish bias — intentional or not — is not uncommon. Some courses even portray Judaism as a flawed and incomplete religion that has been replaced by Christianity.

Many courses suggest or openly claim that the Bible is literally true. “The Bible is the written word of God,” students are told in one PowerPoint presentation. Some courses go so far as to suggest that the Bible can be used to verify events in history. One district, for example, teaches students that the Bible’s historical claims are largely beyond question by listing biblical events side by side with historical developments from around the globe.

Course materials in numerous classes are designed to evangelize rather than provide an objective study of the Bible’s influence. A book in one district makes its purpose clear in the preface: “May this study be of value to you. May you fully come to believe that ‘Jesus is the Christ, the son of God.’ And may you have ‘life in His name.’”

A number of courses teach students that the Bible proves Earth is just 6,000 years old.

Students are taught that the United States is a Christian nation founded on the Christian biblical principles taught in their classrooms.

Academic rigor is so poor that many courses rely mostly on memorization of Bible verses and factoids from Bible stories rather than teaching students how to analyze what they are studying. One district relies heavily on Bible cartoons from Hanna-Barbera for its high school class. Students in another district spend two days watching what lesson plans describe a “the historic documentary Ancient Aliens,” which presents “a new interpretation of angelic beings described as extraterrestrials.”

The learning objective for coverage of Genesis 1-2 is the following: “Students will identify and explain the various theories of creation.” A test later asks students to “identify and explain the four major theories of creation discussed in class.” A worksheet asks students to identify those theories by name.

Literal 24-hour Day Theory Day = 24 Hours; Six days of creation

Age/Day Theory Day = extended period of time or age;
Six days or ages of creation.

Alternate Age/Day Theory Creation occurred in six days,
with extended periods of time in between each day.

Mature Earth Theory The earth was created in a mature state; Adam was created as an adult, not a baby.

I’d like to point out the anti-semitism in this curriculum, and the racism in general, to show another reason beyond crippling the US’s scientific capability that this is scary shit. This is the sort of teaching that allows people to grow up and think it’s okay to segregate, to enact special laws against Jews. The state and church together teaching that Jews are evil, that blacks are a different species— it’s dangerous, dangerous stuff.

How much of the GOP support for Israel is based on religious reasons? If they thought there was zero chance of converting Israelis to Christianity, would they be as supportive? hmm.

How much of the GOP support for Israel is based on religious reasons? If they thought there was zero chance of converting Israelis to Christianity, would they be as supportive? hmm.

A nontrivial part of the US right wing is supportive of Israel because they think Israel will be a belligerent in the upcoming mideast war they believe will occur as “predicted” in the Book of Revelations.

And keep in mind as creationism creeps into public school curriculum, The GOP nominee in 2012 (Mitt Romney, remember him) made it part of his platform to ease immigration requirements for foreign scientists and engineers to fill the void in demand in the USA. Never did he promote more Science, Technology, Engineering, Math programs for our own education system, nope. We’ll just rely on other countries to educate scientists and then we’ll steal them.

This is what you get when ignorant creationists and business leaders join forces in politics. Dumbing down our education system and our children so they can fill menial jobs and then importing smart educated people from other countries to lead the next generation.

The problem is James that earlier in my life I was quite afraid of ‘the ghetto’ and badly wanted to keep it at bay, a concern for many young and old in Chicago back in the 1980’s/ early 90’s. I’ve grown up much since then and I now live on the same floor as more than one black condo owner. But I remember how I used to feel and I struggled to put my changing thoughts into words.

So I can say that I oppose segregation now, but that was not always the case.

Let me tell you something about the ghetto—without getting mad & yelling at you this time—it’s not as scary as you might imagine. Since you mentioned a black condo owner, I’m gonna assume we’re talking about black ghettos.

Before I moved to the East Coast I could’ve counted the black people I knew personally without taking off my shoes (taxi passengers don’t count as one doesn’t really “know” them). There simply weren’t that many in my hometown, so I had little exposure.

Granted, you and I are VERY different in terms of personality (but maybe not so different in others), so that probably colors how I approach things as well as how I digest them—you know what they say, “It’s not what you see, it’s how you look at it.” Anyway, it’s also entirely possible that black ghettos in the NY/NJ area are very different from those in Chicago, LA, the South, etc. It’s also possible that because I’m a woman, and an observably Muslim one, that black folks in the NY/NJ area view me differently (because there are so many Muslims up here, many, many of whom are black).

That said, I’ve lived in black ghettos in both NJ and NY. When I first arrived in NYC, in Red Hook, Brooklyn, I was staying with some Muslim women acquaintances. One of them, a Palestinian, had this crazy Puerto Rican friend who was married to a fellow Palestinian and was also a native Brooklynite (she wasn’t Muslim). Her first words of advice to me about surviving in New York were (insert heavy classic Brooklyn accent): “Just act like you belong wherever you’re at. Own it. Don’t act paranoid, don’t act lost or confused, and don’t take any shit from anyone. Do that and you’ll be fine. I promise.” She was right.

In Brooklyn, my move to the ghetto was by necessity: I had little money, had just gotten a job, and took the first tiny apartment I could afford. It was right next to a huge housing project—we’re talking about nightly gunshots being “normal” (after a while you stop worrying about them unless they sound like they’re really close). Along with black Americans there were also lots of people from the Caribbean (West Indians, Jamaicans, etc.) in the neighborhood. There were 3 or 4 Muslims in my apartment building.

It wasn’t all that bad. I had to walk about 3 (pretty dark) blocks to get to the subway (I was working a graveyard shift in Queens), but you know what? No one ever bothered me. There were people milling about in the street 24/7, so I never felt creeped out (like I sometimes did in Manhattan or Queens where it can feel positively desolate late at night).

Sure there were lots of young guys swaggering around dressed in baggy pants and all that, but it was the fashion. In fact, whenever I stopped one them to asked about something, they were unfailingly respectful & helpful. Not a single person ever bothered me in the 6 months I lived there. The only people that got in trouble were those who were engaged in shady activities. Everyone knew who was who and who was doing what—if people knew you were just a working stiff who minded your own business, they left you alone (others looked out for you).

I’d tell you about the ghetto in Jersey City, which I ended up living in by accident (I was still a newbie & unaware of how hard it is to find a good, affordable apartment in the NY/NJ area), but I’m running out of space. Suffice it to say that the same rules applied, more or less. HTH

Busing was the easier path. Fixing the schools ultimately requires at least partially fixing the culture the student come from. But culture is a very stubborn opponent, and most attempts by politicians to change a culture end in failure. So the politicians take the easy route and hope things get better.

The really right thing to do is often the hard thing. Well that’s why we have a government. To do the hard things that are not commercial. Or personal. They gotta do the big hard things. And when that goes awry, well face it squarely.

That experience taught me my current attitude about the parties and politics. That’s where I got my indy/contrary streak. I was too young to vote or take signatures. But I could stuff envelopes and make phone calls as a participant in the process. Heady stuff at 16 years old in the mid ‘70’s.

Even if we have plenty of educated US citizens, the powers that be are in favor of importing more. Creating a labor glut is an essential part of maximizing the rate of return on capital.

Well how can they create a glut in the scientific / technical labor force while at the same time they are undermining science education and doing all they can to put college out of reach for so many American kids.

A lot of businesses really didn’t like when we had low unemployment awhile back, they found it far too constraining to actually have to pay worthwhile salaries, so they’re doing what they can to stop that from happening again.

The Palestinian shop-keeper in the Tenderloin, where I lived for awhile— which is kind of too small to be a ghetto but is a really terrible neighborhood— was one of the nicest guys i ever met. So was the guy who ran the junk store down the street. There were plenty of cracked-out shitheads around, but there were also various South-East Asian families calmly walking through the chaos, because living there was cheap and they came from much worse and more dangerous places.

I am very glad I don’t live there anymore, and it was depressing, but the people that stick in my mind are Fouzi and Bill and the other cool guys, not the random parade of addicts and con-men.

I may or may not need a tinfoil hat adjustment in this area, but I’ve long thought that the reason for the GOP’s unquestioning support of Israel has to do with End-Times / Second Coming fantasies.

There’s an interesting story about Alvin “Sergeant” York and his conversion from fundamentalist isolationist to a fairly inclusive interventionist. He had to be convinced that associating with Jews wouldn’t damn his soul.

[Harry] Warner’s patriotism and religious zeal impressed York, who came to admire and respect Jews. His empathy for the plight of the Jews, as he became more aware of the situation in Europe, fits squarely within one fundamentalist Christian tradition. His original belief regarded the Jews as perverse and wicked, but he easily rationalized his change of heart by embracing Zionism as a means of heralding the Parousia.

There’s deep roots to this kind of thinking, the modern form no doubt a convenience arising out of the Second World War. And even in the 40s (and early 50s) with Joe McCarthy, there are shades of the “Jewish Communist” meme pervasive among isolationists a decade before.

P.S. Shorter version? The people in black (or any other) ghettos are just people. Sure they talk & dress different than you do, but most of them are decent folks just struggling to get by and raise the families they love. It’s really that simple.

Next time you feel uneasy, just pretend that you’re visiting a foreign country with a different culture because that’s all it really is—surface differences. We all bleed red when injured, and we all weep salty tears when sad. As the Sufis would say, “Say I am you.” We’re all one, D_F.

HAZARD — A 12-year-old girl who was shot in a parking lot at Hazard Community and Technical College died Wednesday, a day after her father and cousin were killed in the same shooting.

The man accused of killing the three bought the gun that he allegedly used just hours earlier and only one day after he and one of the victims had a court hearing in a dispute over custody of their son.

Dalton Lee Stidham, 21, of Perry County is charged with murder in the death of his ex-girlfriend, Caitlin Paige Cornett, 20. He allegedly shot her when they met at 6 p.m. Tuesday so he could return their son, 2-year-old Jaydien Miller, after a court-ordered visit…

The Palestinian shop-keeper in the Tenderloin, where I lived for awhile— which is kind of too small to be a ghetto but is a really terrible neighborhood— was one of the nicest guys i ever met. So was the guy who ran the junk store down the street. There were plenty of cracked-out shitheads around, but there were also various South-East Asian families calmly walking through the chaos, because living there was cheap and they came from much worse and more dangerous places.

I am very glad I don’t live there anymore, and it was depressing, but the people that stick in my mind are Fouzi and Bill and the other cool guys, not the random parade of addicts and con-men.

LOL, yes! It’s the great people you meet, the characters, that stick with you. To this day my son still reminisces about those times.

The deicide motif is explicit in an essay
distributed to students in Dalhart ISD. A
handout taken from raptureready.com attempts to
incorporate Daniel 9:24-27 into detailed calculations
about history’s steady progression towards the
end of the age. “No prophecy in all of Scripture is
more critical to our understanding of the end times
than these four verses,” according to the article.
Expounding on Daniel’s 9:26’s reference to the
“messiah” being “cut off,” it explains:

It wasn’t the killing the Messiah that put the
Jews at odds with God. After all He came to
die for them. No. It’s that in killing Him, they
refused to let his death pay for their sins so He
could save them. This had the effect of making
His death meaningless to them. That’s what
severed the relationship.

The writer attributes the destruction of Jerusalem
and the Jewish temple by the Romans and the
scattering of Jews around the world as a result
of Jesus’ crucifixion but assures that when Jesus
establishes his kingdom on earth, “Israel will finally
have her Kingdom back and will live in peace with
God in her midst forever.”

My kids were lucky to go to a local public school that is actually racially integrated with no clear majority of any race. Close to 50-50. That is highly unusual in the Metro Detroit area. I would estimate 90% of the schools within 50 miles are 90-10 one way or the other.

I have family and friends who were too afraid to send their children to a school like that so they shelled out $8K a year or more to send them to a private school where they could be in a lily white environment. So stupid.

I’m sorry ‘bout that. I felt Ojoe was taking some unfair heat and I responded from my own real experience here in the valley.

I didn’t get bused, but I was in southern California around the same time and earlier.

The only real solution to segregated schools would be to integrate the neighborhoods. That would be hard.

You say they should have fixed the crappy schools. That wasn’t (isn’t) going to happen as long as they were (are) segregated. The crappiness was because of the segregation. You couldn’t leave them segregated and fix them.

A lot of people suffered during the busing efforts. The ones who aren’t white suffered disproportionately before and after, too.

P.S. Shorter version? The people in black (or any other) ghettos are just people. Sure they talk & dress different than you do, but most of them are decent folks just struggling to get by and raise the families they love. It’s really that simple.

Next time you feel uneasy, just pretend that you’re visiting a foreign country with a different culture because that’s all it really is—surface differences. We all bleed red when injured, and we all weep salty tears when sad. As the Sufis would say, “Say I am you.” We’re all one, D_F.

We’re going through a rough period economically right now. My wife grew up upper middle class - her father was one of the most successful organizers for the United Brotherhood of Carpenters and brought home a good salary as he helped others get a living one. I grew up a wee bit less well off ;)

And over the years I’ve lived with the places like you and CL talk of. I’ve also been on the edge of a neighborhood sliding into real nastiness. My last year in Madison I had a CCW even though it was only legal for the last couple of months. The next door houses got shot up once and there were too many other incidents. In a real way I am grateful that our home was foreclosed.

Now, we’re up north. It’s a small american town full of all the good and bad that entails. I prefer it. And that CCW was sold.

The really right thing to do is often the hard thing. Well that’s why we have a government. To do the hard things that are not commercial. Or personal. They gotta do the big hard things. And when that goes awry, well face it squarely.

That experience taught me my current attitude about the parties and politics. That’s where I got my indy/contrary streak. I was too young to vote or take signatures. But I could stuff envelopes and make phone calls as a participant in the process. Heady stuff at 16 years old in the mid ‘70’s.

They thing is that government is made up of people, and the people who head it are elected by the public. So city councils and school boards are sensitive to public perceptions, and try to avoid actions likely to visibly fail or that incite public anger.

But separate from that but directly related to segregation and its unmaking is the fact that some aspects of cultural change at some times simply cannot be forced. Busing was not able to correct many of the problematic aspects of the culture of both white and black neighborhoods*. Many of the cultural issues could not in fact have been solved by government, given the limits on government in the US. All the government can do is make sure everyone’s rights are respected and help get people a fair chance, which might effect the cultural changes in the long term. But cultural problems aren’t normally amenable to short-term solutions, and it is the short term in which people live and the mid term in which they vote. (heh.)

*: This is not an attempt to invoke the MBF or to be racist. I’d ask this point be accept as ‘made in good faith’ and left at that.

I think the solution might be to do what happened with Montreal up North.

Forced Amalgamation of the suburbs into the main city.

I’m not familiar with that.

Forced anything is usually bad for someone.

I like the practice of building neighborhoods of various kinds of housing, instead of all one kind. Some apartments, houses of all sizes, some assisted living, that’s the kind of thing that can keep people feeling like we’re all one.

We’re going through a rough period economically right now. My wife grew up upper middle class - her father was one of the most successful organizers for the United Brotherhood of Carpenters and brought home a good salary as he helped others get a living one. I grew up a be less well off ;)

And over the years I’ve lived with the places like you and CL talk of. I’ve also been on the edge of a neighborhood sliding into real nastiness. My last year in Madison I had a CCW even though it was only legal for the last couple of months. The next door houses got shot up once and there were too many other incidents. In a real way I am grateful that our home was foreclosed.

Now, we’re up north. It’s a small american town full of all the good and bad that entails. I prefer it. And that CCW was sold.

I don’t think anyone wants to stay in the ghetto (except maybe the criminals). I know I didn’t. I have lots of funny stories from that time, but I don’t mean to romanticize it—there was plenty of bad stuff and much struggling. Sadly, not everyone has the means to get out. Sometimes getting out is just pure luck, being in the right place at the right time and making a mad dash for an open door.

I didn’t get bused, but I was in southern California around the same time and earlier.

The only real solution to segregated schools would be to integrate the neighborhoods. That would be hard.

You say they should have fixed the crappy schools. That wasn’t (isn’t) going to happen as long as they were (are) segregated. The crappiness was because of the segregation. You couldn’t leave them segregated and fix them.

A lot of people suffered during the busing efforts. The ones who aren’t white suffered disproportionately before and after, too.

Integrating the neighborhoods wasn’t going to happen, simply because the white populations of cities and suburbs weren’t going to accept it. To many would simply leave and there’d be some other city in another state that would welcome them. The change in culture couldn’t happen quickly because some many were opposed to it and those people’s votes would have shut the change down or they would have left for someplace where they could live as they wanted to live.

The only real solution to segregated schools would be to integrate the neighborhoods. That would be hard.

You say they should have fixed the crappy schools. That wasn’t (isn’t) going to happen as long as they were (are) segregated. The crappiness was because of the segregation. You couldn’t leave them segregated and fix them.

Well how can they create a glut in the scientific / technical labor force while at the same time they are undermining science education and doing all they can to put college out of reach for so many American kids.

Easy peasy. Import skilled labor able to work for 1/3 the going rate in the US. US graduates in these fields will either get underpaid, or become unemployed/underemployed.

All that ends up doing is leading to worse violence. You’re trying to force together people who don’t want to be near each other, and moreover you’re building a intrusive government that is certain it knows whats best of its citizens. Government should not engage in that sort of forcible social engineering.

Well how can they create a glut in the scientific / technical labor force while at the same time they are undermining science education and doing all they can to put college out of reach for so many American kids.

A more systematic answer to this question is that the capabilities of the US work force are largely irrelevant to the RW agenda. It is assumed that imported labor and/or outsourcing the jobs can take care of all business needs.

Thus creationist stupidity may not actually be “bad for business” in their view.

Integrating the neighborhoods wasn’t going to happen, simply because the white populations of cities and suburbs weren’t going to accept it. To many would simply leave and there’d be some other city in another state that would welcome them. The change in culture couldn’t happen quickly because some many were opposed to it and those people’s votes would have shut the change down or they would have left for someplace where they could live as they wanted to live.

As a sociology major, I gotta comment on your use of the word ‘culture’. I think you’re using it to mean more than one thing, or as a broad term to encompass a lot of different things, and I think some of those things were simply racism and privilege and the results of a system in which those things were institutionalized.

That’s cool. I like that we both cared enough to step up. I’m done arguing the point. Good folks do come to separate conclusions. :-) Leaving it be-one face palm will do for me and my admittedly contrary ways.

As a sociology major, I gotta comment on your use of the word ‘culture’. I think you’re using it to mean more than one thing, or as a broad term to encompass a lot of different things, and I think some of those things were simply racism and privilege and the results of a system in which those things were institutionalized.

Racism is still part of culture. It’s a malignant part, though, and I mean that literally.

1/3 is probably an exaggeration, but I’m sure there is a significant down draft on wages via outsourcing and importing labor.

I think the GOP has some offshoot of the Laffer curve where they know there are trade-offs between: 1) Promoting genuine science education in the USA to create more technical graduates 2) Promoting creationism which attracts ignorant voting blocs to the GOP.

The trick is to find the maximized point on that curve. If it falls low, then the backup plan is to have flexibility to allow more immigration for technical labor. Thus the Mitt Romney platform.

I don’t know how many of you know about the Wedge Document from the Discovery Institute. While vouchers (aka “school choice”) are not mentioned in particular, they fit in well with the general intention to remake public education into an arm of the Christian Right.

While the Wedge strategy is aimed particularly at science education, the end result has been an overall attack on anything the Christian Right deems “un-godly.” The whole David Barton-style revisionism of history is just one example.

I’ve reviewed some of the textbooks favored by these yokels. They are horribly written and pedagogically awful, even setting aside the scientific inaccuracy and religious content.

Since they can’t get their way easily (eventually school boards and parents reject their Christianizing efforts), the next best thing is to push vouchers aka “school choice.” These were already favored by more secular proponents of school reform as a way to give concerned parents the opportunity to send their kids to private or parochial schools. Since then, the whole voucher idea has been co-opted by the Religious Right to continue their fight to co-opt public education.

It fits in really well with the Seven Mountains strategy of the Dominionists.

This is not like busing. Busing was a pragmatic, Band-Aid solution to an endemic problem of separate, but unequal education. Vouchers are part of a wholesale takeover of American public education.

I think the GOP has some offshoot of the Laffer curve where they know there are trade-offs between: 1) Promoting genuine science education in the USA to create more technical graduates 2) Promoting creationism which attracts ignorant voting blocs to the GOP.

The trick is to find the maximized point on that curve. If it falls low, then the backup plan is to have flexibility to allow more immigration for technical labor. Thus the Mitt Romney platform.

That might be giving the GOP too much credit. I think the considerations are simpler. 1) Science education bad (because educated people tend not to vote for the GOP, or start believing in climate change). 2) Importing labor and/or outsourcing good (maximize profit, make working class more desperate). 3) Victory.

There doesn’t seem to be any need for a trade-off. I realize the GOP platform does not exactly read this way (yet), but the GOP policy proposals are pretty consistent with this.

I don’t know how many of you know about the Wedge Document from the Discovery Institute. While vouchers (aka “school choice”) are not mentioned in particular, they fit in well with the general intention to remake public education into an arm of the Christian Right.

While the Wedge strategy is aimed particularly at science education, the end result has been an overall attack on anything the Christian Right deems “un-godly.” The whole David Barton-style revisionism of history is just one example.

A Texas state judge is promoting his recent decisions favoring a gas driller in its dispute with a local landowner as part of his election campaign, a move some legal scholars say may violate state judicial ethics rules.

May violate? May? Read the whole thing. This disgusting creep ruled in favor of the gas driller (wanna take a guess how much they donated to his campaign?) in every manner possible in this case, including forcing an environmental blogger to turn over all her emails. And to top off this steaming shit pile with a lovely rat poison pellet, he’s also a limbaugh fan:

Loftin, who is campaigning to keep his state judgeship in a county west of Dallas, also sent out materials with the image of talk show host Rush Limbaugh, who credited the judge’s ruling in favor of driller Range Resources Corp. (RRC), based in Fort Worth, Texas, for getting the EPA to reverse course.

Seems appropriate, come to think of it - gas driller Range Resources poisons wells literally, while limbaugh does so figuratively.

I’ve just spent the last few hours reviewing the proposed legislation in Illinois regarding guns.

I printed and marked-up the most comprehensive of these: IL SB0042. At least I think it is the most comprehensive. I can’t stand to do anymore tonite.

Mostly because I don’t see much need. Because nothing is banned. There is a newly authorized Registration system for Semi-Auto “Assault” weapons, .50 Calibur Rifles and their accoutrements, and Large (Over-10 rounds) capacity projectile feeding devices.

The State Police are given a limited amount of time to get the system up and running. I assume the Computer Software has already been chosen and is just waiting for contract to be signed. Even so, I don’t see it getting done in the time provided, IF the legislation is passed reasonably intact. I could be wrong.

So, Illinois is not going to go do-to-door for anyone’s guns in the near future.

Thanks. I used to be a high school science teacher, so this subject hits close to home. There are many science teachers out there who really want to teach real science, but fear the backlash. Getting through dogmatic Donna’s or stubborn Steve’s head that the Bible is not the “textbook” we are going to use in science class is only one part of the problem.

So yeah, every wingnut I’ve talked to today since Obama’s proposals were made public is going on at length to me about how the bans are so wrong, unconstitutional and so forth. But when I press them to point to anything else he proposed today that is objectionable…absolute silence. Even all the pearl-clutching and fainting spells over the talk about executive orders has gone nowhere.

Ciaphas Cain was an Imperial Guard Commissar. He was in active service during the last century of the 41st Millennium, and was over 200 Terran years old when he was recalled into service during the 13th Black Crusade of Abaddon the Despoiler. It is certain that he survived more than a quarter of a century into the 42nd Millennium. Imperial propaganda made him out to be a great hero of the Imperium of Man in the late 41st Millennium, although in truth he was primarily focused on his own survival during his long career. However, Cain differed from many other Imperial Commissars in that he would not readily sacrifice his soldiers unless it ensured his own survival. Cain tried his utmost to avoid engaging in actual combat, but usually was required to do so to maintain his status as a Hero of the Imperium, which ironically would involve him in more dangerous situations than any he would usually have seen as a simple Commissar. He was responsible for many successful campaigns throughout his career and retired to become an instructor for new Imperial Commissars at a Schola Progenium.

Ferik Jurgen was a Gunner First Class of the Imperial Guard’s Valhallan Ice Warriors regiments who served for many standard decades as Commissar Ciaphas Cain’s adjutant. He was first assigned as Cain’s adjutant after Cain graduated from the Schola Progenium and was given his first assignment to serve with the 12th Valhallan Field Artillery on the world of Desolatia IV. Despite his less than savoury appearance, a general lack of basic interpersonal skills, and a case of body ordour that could overwhelm a Carnifex, Jurgen proved indispensable to Cain in the course of his career. Jurgen was truly defined by his fierce bravery, an unwavering sense of loyalty to his patron no matter the odds, his ability to withstand any situation (save for flying) without complaint, and the fact that he was a rare psychic Blank, possessed of the anti-psyker Pariah Gene. This last ability saved Cain and many of his allies and others under his command from daemonic and psychic attacks at main of the most desperate times in the famed Commissar’s career. Remarkably, but not surprisingly, in all of the accounts of Cain’s heroism recounted publicly as Imperial propaganda, Jurgen is not mentioned at all, though his actions are recorded in the more truthful autobiographical accounts of the events that marked his career that Caiphas Cain himself authored and that were edited by the Inquisitor Amberley Vail.

So yeah, every wingnut I’ve talked to today since Obama’s proposals were made public is going on at length to me about how the bans are so wrong, unconstitutional and so forth. But when I press them to point to anything else he proposed today that is objectionable…absolute silence. Even all the pearl-clutching and fainting spells over the talk about executive orders has gone nowhere.

It’s all about the DRAMA.

I just posted a synopsis of what I wrote above on my fb and linked the Illinois Senate Bill. I was told that the States are trying to rush thru legislation that is even more stringent that the (insert Godwin of your choice) EXECUTIVE ORDERS Obama signed today.

I’m just going to keep linking the source documents. Not much else one can do.

A tenured professor who controversially claimed the mass shooting in Newtown, Connecticut never happened is worried that he may now lose his job.

Florida Atlantic University professor James Tracy told the university’s student newspaper that the university plans to have a meeting with him later this week regarding his conspiracy theory, which he published online.

“They’re getting people calling them saying that this person shouldn’t be teaching, he’s an awful person and what have you, so I think that they have to do something,” Tracy told University Press.

“I don’t know what there’s going to be. I don’t know if that would involve stripping me of my tenure and dismissing me, or what. That’s something that’s ultimately for them to decide.”

Last month, Tracy claimed the tragic shooting of 20 young schoolchildren in Newtown could be part of a conspiracy to push for gun control. He went so far to question whether the shooting even actually happened, or was just an invention of Obama and the media.

I just posted a synopsis of what I wrote above on my fb and linked the Illinois Senate Bill. I was told that the States are trying to rush thru legislation that is even more stringent that the (insert Godwin of your choice) EXECUTIVE ORDERS Obama signed today.

I’m just going to keep linking the source documents. Not much else one can do.

Really at this point, it’s just about keeping the ODS alive. That’s the NRA’s strategy in a nutshell: Approach opposition to any bills as opposition to Obama, portray a vote for any of his proposals as a vote in favor of Obama. Thing is, what they don’t get is people are looking at the hatred and bile and are turned off. The NRA says it wants to protect kids, but all its doing is attacking Obama and anybody who agrees with him.

The NRA’s new commercial called Obama an “elitist hypocrite” because the Secret Service protects his daughters, yet the President is skeptical that having armed guards in schools was the only answer to gun violence.

“And why does he get to veto bills and command an army, when we don’t?” Stewart joked. “If I didn’t know any better, and I’m not a big conspiracy guy, after seeing that ad, I would think the NRA was either an elaborate avant-garde Joaquin Phoenix-style joke, or a false flag operation run by Michael Moore in an attempt to discredit responsible gun owners.”

Really at this point, it’s just about keeping the ODS alive. That’s the NRA’s strategy in a nutshell: Approach opposition to any bills as opposition to Obama, portray a vote for any of his proposals as a vote in favor of Obama. Thing is, what they don’t get is people are looking at the hatred and bile and are turned off. The NRA says it wants to protect kids, but all its doing is attacking Obama and anybody who agrees with him.

Yeah, I kept my mouth shut most of the day about it. Just keep repeating, “I watched the Press Conference, but haven’t read any PROPOSED legislation yet.”

I didn’t “mmm” or say “yeah” as one might in regular conversation to indicate that I was listening. I just kept my mouth shut.

Yeah, I kept my mouth shut most of the day about it. Just keep repeating, “I watched the Press Conference, but haven’t read any PROPOSED legislation yet.”

I didn’t “mmm” or say “yeah” as one might in regular conversation to indicate that I was listening. I just kept my mouth shut.

I plan to just keep pressing them as much as I can. Every time they go off about it, I point out that the ban’s unlikely to go anywhere meaningful, then ask them what else they found so objectionable. I figure by lunch time today, the NRA will have them all squawking in unison.

Jesus Christ, I know DF has a ton of faults but i really havenever got a racist vibe from him. Do we have to jump down his throat just because? I really do not get why he is seeing so much hate, or at least why he is and Politica Aithiest isn’t, since PA was the first one to bring up forced bussing…

Sorry about getting back so late, but people performing any form of pushback to Civil Rights-era achievements rubs me entirely the wrong way, from my own personal experience of living in northern Louisiana during the 1960s-1990s. I witnessed some extremely ugly racism during that time, up to and including the 1991 Governor’s race when white supremacist David Duke came within a whisker of winning that race. The area that I lived in at the time, he WON, rather handily - (this was one of the reasons I moved out, and have only gone back a few times for family-related events).
As evidenced by federal courts striking down the state school voucher system less than a month ago, the primary basis for its removal was because it was in fact being used to circumvent state school desegregation - and we’re closing on SIXTY YEARS after Brown v Board of Education - the same racism that infects the area is still very much alive and well today.
It wasn’t a slam against DF personally, but ascribe it to the fact that I have pretty much a zero tolerance disposition to lip-service to a situation that I personally witnessed and experienced.

The problem I have with that is that he’s probably one of the very few I can say that I have watched grow enormously over the past couple of years I’ve been here.

If there is grace, then DF has earned it. Harder than some, easier than most; earned nonetheless. He’s not perfect - what fuckin’ human is? The one thing Christianity got right was that every person is broken and that we are often strongest at our broken spots (sorry pappa) and to forget that is worse than anything DF has ever done.

Feh. I’m off for the night. But I’d rather a man like DF whom I disagree with than far too many of the democratic party idiots I’ve known. At least he tries to be honest. That’s more than 99.999999% percent of us can look in a mirror and say.

Professors can have wacky ideas outside their fields without threatening their status (they too have the constitutional right to be idiots in public), but in this case I agree with you — someone in communication and media studies who thinks that this was a manufactured conspiracy has proved he’s an ignorant idiot in his own field. Like a holocaust-denying historian.

“Trolling is a key part of the conservative-entertainment/media business model,” she said. “These guys say stuff all the time that they do not intend to be persuasive. They’re not trying to explain something, or bring people along to their way of thinking, they’re just doing something to attract attention, and hopefully condemnation and outrage from the mainstream, and particularly from liberals. They want to offend you. They seek to offend you. That is the point.”

Maddow said that “trolling” was a “tried and true schtick” for conservatives. Not just for media figures, but for politicians as well. She described Rep. Steve King (R-IA) as a “permanent troll.”

I have family and friends who were too afraid to send their children to a school like that so they shelled out $8K a year or more to send them to a private school where they could be in a lily white environment. So stupid.

The busing debate, vouchers and creationism are all tied together. When busing became law, many white families left the public school districts for private schools, whether religious (Catholic or other religions) where non-white children were not welcome. Sure, non-white religious schools saw an increase in student populations, but it was mostly private predominantly white schools that saw increases in student population.

Then vouchers came in, because the proponents said that they were paying twice, once in property taxes and again in private school tuition. I went to a racially diverse private school which still had a higher percentage of non minority students than the entire metropolitan area of Denver, and the administration sent home propaganda for vouchers. This was 1980-1981, the early Reagan years.

The school I went to still pushes for vouchers for religious schools, but does not push creationism (Thank you Jesuits), but other religious schools are pushing both YE and OE creationism and vouchers.

The Denver Public School district no longer has mandatory busing, but still has to compete for students with religious and non religious private schools. Suburban school districts which were never under mandatory busing orders are facing the same competition. And more and more schools are pushing Creationism. It is all tied together. Busing (desegragation), vouchers and Creationism all are tied to White flight from public school districts.

I lived in a school district with forced busing in Gary, Indiana, in the 70’s. I think it was a noble idea, but a disaster in the practical sense. I feel that those funds could have been better put to ouse improving schools in disadvantaged areas and doing more to increase social integration.

But that was in an era of neighborhood segregation: black people were just not allowed to buy houses in certain neighborhoods. My mother wound up moving to keep me from attending West Side High school, which was a pretty brutal place (the basketball team was disqualified from tournament play for carrying switchblades on the court).

I joined this site when it was a lot more politically conservative, but even back then, they did not suffer trolls or creationists, which I saw as a redeeming feature.

Hundreds of women have been arrested, convicted, jailed, detained in mental institutions or forced to endure medical procedures as a result of the “criminalisation of pregnancy” over the last four decades, a new report has found.

In the first study of its kind, to be published on Tuesday, researchers from the National Advocates for Pregnant Women (NAPW) identified 413 criminal and civil cases across 44 states involving the arrests, detentions and equivalent deprivations of pregnant women’s liberty between 1973 and 2005. NAWP said that it is aware of a further 250 cases since 2005. Both figures are likely to be underestimates, it said.

The report, which will appear in the Journal of Health Politics, Policy and Law, found that women were denied a wide range of basic human rights, including the right to life, liberty, equal protection and due process of law “based solely on their pregnancy status”.

It found a wide range of cases in which pregnant women were arrested and detained not only if they ended a pregnancy or expressed an intention to end a pregnancy, but also after suffering unintentional pregnancy loss.

Instructional material in two school districts teach that racial diversity today can be traced back to Noah’s sons, a long-discredited claim that has been a foundational component of some forms of racism.

DNA analysis is clearly a lie from the devil to test us!

Currently reading “The Name Of The Rose” - the controversies of the frightened monks therein seem quite topical in the context of the modern religious backlash against knowledge.

Agreed (that’s why I was first to downding the comment, and regrettably the busing discussion was the result. Ugh).

Let’s just say after what I posted above and the Electoral College obscenity being perpetrated by democracy-destroying PA republicans, I have had it with anyone who tries to minimize, make excuses for, or distract from GOP evil and stupidity. They might as well be extolling the virtues of racists, misogynists, theocrats, corporate crooks, and polluters (oh wait! they are!)

Let’s just say after what I posted above and the Electoral College obscenity being perpetrated by democracy-destroying PA republicans, I have had it with anyone who tries to minimize, make excuses for, or distract from GOP evil and stupidity. They might as well be extolling the virtues of racists, misogynists, theocrats, corporate crooks, and polluters (oh wait! they are!)

Totally agreed.

Vote me! I stuck it to the environment! Did you like that Rush? Did you see me?

So yeah, every wingnut I’ve talked to today since Obama’s proposals were made public is going on at length to me about how the bans are so wrong, unconstitutional and so forth. But when I press them to point to anything else he proposed today that is objectionable…absolute silence. Even all the pearl-clutching and fainting spells over the talk about executive orders has gone nowhere.

Since I’ve got personal perspective here, yes, massive freakout, followed by me asking “so how do these actually affect anything you do.” *Crickets* As usual, 99% or so of folks aren’t going to see a bit of difference if they are law-abiding gun owners. Of course, we also have Cuomo’s new laws on the books here in NY, so it might be 97% who won’t see a bit of difference. But I’ll bet the NRA got plenty of checks in the mail because of this.

Since I’ve got personal perspective here, yes, massive freakout, followed by me asking “so how do these actually affect anything you do.” *Crickets* As usual, 99% or so of folks aren’t going to see a bit of difference if they are law-abiding gun owners. Of course, we also have Cuomo’s new laws on the books here in NY, so it might be 97% who won’t see a bit of difference. But I’ll bet the NRA got plenty of checks in the mail because of this.

If you’re getting crickets, you’re not listening to the right people. There’s the destruction of HIPAA - if you have trouble sleeping and see the doctor, SWAT will be at your door in a day or two. There’s the direction to the CDC to research gun violence - just a coverup for actually directing them to research reasons to seize guns. Oh, and you should see the conspiracies over the “review and enhance gun locks, gun safes, and gun safety measures.”

If you’re getting crickets I suspect its because the people you’re listening to are not conspiracy leaders but instead conspiracy followers. The noise is there and it’s coming.

I’ll tell you what I do not support. The NY law. Or one part of it. The seven round magazine capacity limit. That is a deliberate interference. The 10 round limit takes advantage of availability. There are ten round magazines for most semi auto handguns, if not all that are big enough. Need to comply? Just go buy one or more.

The conservatives on my FB are all pouty today, posting terse one-liners like ‘Liberalism is all about making yourself feel better’ and ‘Wag the dog!’.

I think a couple of them are starting to realize that despite yesterday’s Godwinning, the public is standing with the president on this one. I’m enjoying it.

‘Morning, Lizards!

It’s just another addition to the long line of “boy who cried wolf” stories. When there is a massive freakout about every little thing the President (who happens to be black) does, eventually it starts to wear thin on the rest of the public. Eventually, these freakouts just get ignored for being nothing more than whiny temper-tantrums.

I’ll tell you what I do not support. The NY law. Or one part of it. The seven round magazine capacity limit. That is a deliberate interference. The 10 round limit takes advantage of availability. There are ten round magazines for most semi auto handguns, if not all that are big enough. Need to comply? Just go buy one or more.

If you’re getting crickets, you’re not listening to the right people. There’s the destruction of HIPAA - if you have trouble sleeping and see the doctor, SWAT will be at your door in a day or two. There’s the direction to the CDC to research gun violence - just a coverup for actually directing them to research reasons to seize guns. Oh, and you should see the conspiracies over the “review and enhance gun locks, gun safes, and gun safety measures.”

If you’re getting crickets I suspect its because the people you’re listening to are not conspiracy leaders but instead conspiracy followers. The noise is there and it’s coming.

I’m talking about personal relations etc. Yeah, when it’s on the internet or on TV, people are going to go DEFCON 1 about every fucking thing. Hell, at family gatherings it’s always that type of hyperbolic crap, but when you get down to dealing with somebody at a personal, face to face level, it’s a lot different. They know they don’t have anonymity to hide behind.

I’m talking about personal relations etc. Yeah, when it’s on the internet or on TV, people are going to go DEFCON 1 about every fucking thing. Hell, at family gatherings it’s always that type of hyperbolic crap, but when you get down to dealing with somebody at a personal, face to face level, it’s a lot different. They know they don’t have anonymity to hide behind.

Lucky you. I am talking about people I know on a first-name basis, people I can’t cut and drop.

Honestly, if they’re posting pictures comparing Obama to Hitler, you’re better off unfriending them. I did that with a wingnut right after the election.

Prior to the election, this guy posted a cartoon insinuating Obama was knowingly working with Al Queda. Then Benghazi hit and, as you can imagine, he was off to the crazy races.

I can only imagine the kind of idiocy/hate this moron is spewing right now. Do yourself a favor; if anyone you know is forwarding the Obama/Hitler stuff, drop them.

Agreed. Fortunately for me I don’t have any fb friends posting those types of pictures. I had one or two that were posting pro-gun nonsense. Unfriended one and remove from newsfeed the other. Not that I am anti-gun, these guys were just obtuse.

I’ll tell you what I do not support. The NY law. Or one part of it. The seven round magazine capacity limit. That is a deliberate interference. The 10 round limit takes advantage of availability. There are ten round magazines for most semi auto handguns, if not all that are big enough. Need to comply? Just go buy one or more.

I’ll tell you what I do not support. The NY law. Or one part of it. The seven round magazine capacity limit. That is a deliberate interference. The 10 round limit takes advantage of availability. There are ten round magazines for most semi auto handguns, if not all that are big enough. Need to comply? Just go buy one or more.

There are no seven round magazines.

I agree here somewhat because we own a few rifles with 10-round magazines that are there by default (Garand, SKS). I’d much rather they at least Grandfather those in, along with stricter requirements for securing said weapons, registration, and enforcing strict backround checks on sale (including private).

You shouldn’t have been, and wouldn’t have been, if objective reality weren’t treated with such gross disrespect in rightwing extremist propaganda (that seeps into the national consciousness whether we like it or not).

For Glock and 1911/2011 I suppose. But not that fast. And for many less popular models not for a long time, if ever. So, are the old magazines of 10 round legal to keep and use?

BBIAB

I wasn’t even going to count 1911s as they’re already out there and have been for a while (which rather rebuts your “there are none” point, but I digress).

No, I’m looking at the major driving point that there is a market to fill and money to be made because of this. Yes, the less common firearms will take longer. But I betcha the designers have been burning midnight oil since the idea of a seven round limit first got serious traction. Well, not literally. CAD doesn’t use oil.

I wasn’t even going to count 1911s as they’re already out there and have been for a while (which rather rebuts your “there are none” point, but I digress).

No, I’m looking at the major driving point that there is a market to fill and money to be made because of this. Yes, the less common firearms will take longer. But I betcha the designers have been burning midnight oil since the idea of a seven round limit first got serious traction. Well, not literally. CAD doesn’t use oil.

Some of the manufacturers won’t even bother. We are talking about New York state, not the entire country. Market may not be large enough to make it worth their effort.

Lucky you. I am talking about people I know on a first-name basis, people I can’t cut and drop.

That’s when I think somebody is lost. It’s one thing when you’re talking to a group, or have anonymity on the internet (or there’s no chance of repercussions among close friends/family/co-workers). It’s another thing when it’s in a 1-on-1 conversation and the batshit continues. I know many don’t have the luxury, but I’ve told people if they come to me with that silly shit, they’re dead to me.

A reminder for everyone. At the same time that the NRA junkies are spouting the “Obama=Hitler!” crap, call members of the left fascists who part of some grand conspiracy to eliminate them - just take a look at the raving conspiracy theories about Sandy Hook and Aurora for examples of this - they are selling this sort of paraphernalia at NRA-sponsored events.

Legit question: How do you explain Martin Luther King to a 4 year old? She’s white (Irish, Lebanese, Scottish, French) but goes to a very diverse school. So she is living in MLK’s dream. But how do you explain to a 4yo that it wasn’t always (and in some places still isn’t) that way?

That’s when I think somebody is lost. It’s one thing when you’re talking to a group, or have anonymity on the internet (or there’s no chance of repercussions among close friends/family/co-workers). It’s another thing when it’s in a 1-on-1 conversation and the batshit continues. I know many don’t have the luxury, but I’ve told people if they come to me with that silly shit, they’re dead to me.

Sorry to hear you’re having trouble getting through.

Well, here’s the thing. On easily 3/4 of the issues of life they’re sane. In a couple of cases they helped float me through some major life difficulties due to loss of job and home.

I’ve also got a couple of extreme moonbats, similar levels of acquaintance. One of them literally drove 500 miles and put down $1000 to help me deal with a particularly nasty issue a few years ago - done without me asking, just knowing it needed done.

I find myself unable, after that, to declare people “dead to me”. Call them idiots, sure. Berate them for blind unthinking stupidity and paranoia, you betcha. But cut them off entirely? No.

23. “Large capacity ammunition feeding device” means a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or similar device, [manufactured after September thirteenth, nineteen hundred ninety-four,] that (A) has a capacity of, or that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition, OR (B) CONTAINS MORE THAN SEVEN ROUNDS OF AMMUNITION, OR (C) IS OBTAINED AFTER THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THE CHAPTER OF THE LAWS OF TWO THOUSAND THIRTEEN WHICH AMENDED THIS SUBDIVISION AND HAS A CAPACITY OF, OR THAT CAN BE READILY RESTORED OR CONVERTED TO ACCEPT, MORE THAN SEVEN ROUNDS OF AMMUNITION; provided, however, that such term does not include an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition OR A FEEDING DEVICE THAT IS A CURIO OR RELIC. A FEEDING DEVICE THAT IS A CURIO OR RELIC IS DEFINED AS A DEVICE THAT (I) WAS MANUFACTURED AT LEAST FIFTY YEARS PRIOR TO THE CURRENT DATE, (II) IS ONLY CAPABLE OF BEING USED EXCLUSIVELY IN A FIREARM, RIFLE, OR SHOTGUN THAT WAS MANUFACTURED AT LEAST FIFTY YEARS PRIOR TO THE CURRENT DATE, BUT NOT INCLUDING REPLICAS THEREOF, (III) IS POSSESSED BY AN INDIVIDUAL WHO IS NOT PROHIBITED BY STATE OR FEDERAL LAW FROM POSSESSING A FIREARM AND (IV) IS REGISTERED WITH THE DIVISION OF STATE POLICE PURSUANT TO SUBDIVISION SIXTEEN-A OF SECTION 400.00 OF THIS CHAPTER, EXCEPT SUCH FEEDING DEVICES TRANSFERRED INTO THE STATE MAY BE REGISTERED AT ANY TIME, PROVIDED THEY ARE REGISTERED WITHIN THIRTY DAYS OF THEIR TRANSFER INTO THE STATE. NOTWITHSTANDING PARAGRAPH (H) OF SUBDIVISION TWENTY-TWO OF THIS SECTION, SUCH FEEDING DEVICES MAY BE TRANSFERRED PROVIDED THAT SUCH TRANSFER SHALL BE SUBJECT TO THE PROVISIONS OF SECTION 400.03 OF THIS CHAPTER INCLUDING THE CHECK REQUIRED TO BE CONDUCTED PURSUANT TO SUCH SECTION.

I’ve got to say I was surprised at how reasonable his ideas were. Still think the Assault Weapons ban and 10 round limit won’t do anything, but I like fully implementing the background checks.

That is the thing that is driving the RWNJs around the bend today. They expected Obama to announce a national seizure of all weapons, or something as extreme, and all they got were common-sense steps that you’d have to be crazy to oppose.

Legit question: How do you explain Martin Luther King to a 4 year old? She’s white (Irish, Lebanese, Scottish, French) but goes to a very diverse school. So she is living in MLK’s dream. But how do you explain to a 4yo that it wasn’t always (and in some places still isn’t) that way?

Good question.

I commented to someone here at work yesterday about how you can watch older movies (in this case the 70s Dirty Harry films) and see a whole lot of cultural mores and behaviors that are simply taken for granted. Heavy smoking, treatment of minorities and women, etc.

I don’t see how with a 4-year old. Tough to get a true understanding of what he and many others fought for. Though if they’re doing a class project I’d hope the teacher would have at least tried to explain what he fought for.

The best way might be to look at her friends. Does she have any (this actually sounded bad in my head) non-white friends that you can point to and say “MLK wanted everybody to be friends. If it wasn’t for him and people like him, you probably wouldn’t be friends with (fill in name).”

It’s simple and it sounds shady, but how else do you explain it to a 4-year old?

What I’d like to see is a mechanism in place for people to report others who appear to have become mentally unstable to get evaluated a.s.a.p. and their guns removed if it is found that they could be a danger to others with those guns.

I don’t know how many times I’ve heard people worried about family members who have gone off the deep end or become senile and it is now worrisome with them having guns, but there is nothing they can do about it.

Legit question: How do you explain Martin Luther King to a 4 year old? She’s white (Irish, Lebanese, Scottish, French) but goes to a very diverse school. So she is living in MLK’s dream. But how do you explain to a 4yo that it wasn’t always (and in some places still isn’t) that way?

She’s only 4, so what you just said is good enough. Keep is simple and then every year you add more details.

I got a chuckle from those mini MLKs. They are both cute and creepy at the same time.

That’s actually pretty simple. If it’s manufactured after 1994 and holds more than 7 bullets it’s a large capacity magazine. Exception granted for .22 rifle tubular magazines and for some curios and relics.

Gone already. I am sure it is just a coincidence that this page was posted in the middle of the night. As Varek pointed out before it went poof, there MUST be sources out there that these right wing pages warriors can link to that aren’t directly associated with the organized hate industry.

Seriously, WTF is up with the Pages lately? Now you guys see why I never trusted that asshat Jasser. A “devout” Muslim hanging around with Wilders & Fjordman? REALLY? Then the wonderful & devout Qanta calls Jasser her “colleague” and I’m “smearing” her? Sorry lady, I didn’t get that far-right “counter-jihad” stink all over you, you did it all by yourself.

There was no official confirmation from U.S. or other governments involved on the emerging details. The British Foreign Office did confirm that they were aware of an “ongoing military operation.” France also confirmed an attack was under way.

A spokesman for the Masked Brigade said according to the AP that the Algerians opened fire as the militants tried to leave the vast energy complex with their hostages a day after seizing the installation deep in the desert.

The information came from the Nouakchott Information Agency, which has often carried reports from al Qaeda-linked extremist groups in North Africa.

A diplomatic source confirmed to CBS News that the Algerian military had a plan to retake the facility and that there had been casualties among both the terrorists and hostages, including multiple deaths.

A British security source, citing a contact close to the scene, told CBS News “that the Algerians were firing from helicopters at anything that moved,” but could not confirm any deaths.

OK, somewhere back when I watched some parody youtubes. Some trailers were made of a few comedies that made them out to be horror movies. Just a matter of careful cuts, scary music, and sinister sounding voice-over.

I came away from the article feeling the same way, astounded at how things can get twisted. ooooh, it’s a Big Deal that someone went a few miles away to pay for a dentist even though there are dentists nearby. OOOO….

I am sure it is just a coincidence that this page was posted in the middle of the night. As Varek pointed out before it went poof, there MUST be sources out there that these right wing pages warriors can link to that aren’t directly associated with the organized hate industry.

FRANCE 24 has spoken to a French national who says he is one of the 150 hostages at the gas facility in southeast Algeria. The hostage said that they have been forced to wear explosive belts and that this militants are “heavily armed”.

…The man, who declined to be identified by name, told FRANCE 24 that there were British, Japanese, Philippine and Malaysian nationals among the hostages.

He said the militants simultaneously stormed the gas plant as well as the workers’ living quarters. “They came in and once there was daylight, grouped us all together.”

He said the attackers were heavily armed and forced several hostages to wear explosives belts. They threatened to blow up the gas field if Algerian forces attempted to enter the site.

Charlottesville area. The amount of snow forecasted has changed a number of times since yesterday. It started out as up to 5 inches, then 3-5, 4-6, 6-10, then this morning 3-5 and the latest is 4-7. I’ll just wait till it’s over then measure it myself.

One of the most famous romantic comedies of the last couple of decades, Sleepless in Seattle could easily be turned into a horror stalker flick. After all, Meg Ryan’s character takes things to extremes by following around Tom Hanks and his son. Change the music and presto chango - horror flick.

Charlottesville area. The amount of snow forecasted has changed a number of times since yesterday. It started out as up to 5 inches, then 3-5, 4-6, 6-10, then this morning 3-5 and the latest is 4-7. I’ll just wait till it’s over then measure it myself.

Charlottesville area. The amount of snow forecasted has changed a number of times since yesterday. It started out as up to 5 inches, then 3-5, 4-6, 6-10, then this morning 3-5 and the latest is 4-7. I’ll just wait till it’s over then measure it myself.

I’m in Alexandria, working in the Pentagon. Not looking forward to the stupidity that will be on display for the commute home.

Did you see this comment I made last night? It just occurred to me it might be peripherally relevant to your line of work as well (since you’ve studied digital law, and the polluting company’s puppet judge helps them harass environmental bloggers)

Did you see this comment I made last night? It just occurred to me it might be peripherally relevant to your line of work as well (since you’ve studied digital law, and the polluting company’s puppet judge helps them harass environmental bloggers)

Yeah, I saw that. The headdesking I did after it was painful, so I cured it with hot chocolate and laying down with a cat at my side.

That’s actually pretty simple. If it’s manufactured after 1994 and holds more than 7 bullets it’s a large capacity magazine. Exception granted for .22 rifle tubular magazines and for some curios and relics.

Exception should be for all tubular magazines. A newly made Winchester 94 in .30-30 can hold 8 rounds but is hardly the weapon of choice for a shooting spree. Mine, that I own for deer hunting, being made in 1965 is legal but the exact same rifle made today is not?

I’m in Alexandria, working in the Pentagon. Not looking forward to the stupidity that will be on display for the commute home.

Nothing quite like 65mph bumper-to-bumper traffic on I-95 or the Beltway while it is snow-covered as well is there? Been there back in late 1987 during the infamous Veteran’s Day snow storm.

In the distopian future they will take off the guard rails on the Woodrow Wilson Bridge* and put up web-cams so that people can watch the cars take a dive.

* - Since it’s not too tall and over a navigable waterway (Potomac River) the middle of the Woodrow Wilson is a metal grate deck drawbridge. As such, it got *very* slippery in icy/wet weather. Though I think they have alleviated things a bit since 1990 IIRC. Yep, they put up a higher and wider span in 2006.

So now, whenever an incident occurs such as the one in Algeria it just becomes another excuse to piss on the POTUS. These are Americans. Whatever happened to unity? Do they realize the inherent danger of being in such areas? You’re supposed to “stand by” your president during times likes these, regardless of your personal politics. So much for being “true patriots.” Anyway, I’m sure most Americans will stand by in the meat world.

So now, whenever an incident occurs such as the one in Algeria it just becomes another excuse to piss on the POTUS. These are Americans. Whatever happened to unity? Do they realize the inherent danger of being in such areas? You’re supposed to “stand by” your president during times likes these, regardless of your personal politics. So much for being “true patriots.” Anyway, I’m sure most Americans will stand by in the meat world.

I have a couple of fraternity brothers who are friended on FB who have been linking piles of conservative trash. A few of them also work the petroleum industry including spending time in foreign oil fields (Indonesia, SA, etc.) I will keep an eye out to see how they decide to play up these events.

Do they realize the inherent danger of being in such areas? You’re supposed to “stand by” your president during times likes these, regardless of your personal politics. So much for being “true patriots.” Anyway, I’m sure most Americans will stand by in the meat world.

I actually saw some RWNJ fail yesterday that said things like:

“What were they doing in Algeria anyway? Seems fishy!”

You know, because we don’t have any business interests in Algeria or anything.

I think we might want a “Shooting” while intoxicated law. Maybe the same as DUI-.08 and with similar penalties. At the ranges where I shoot alcohol possession is forbidden. Not even for an after event BBQ. No beer.

What do you think? “Operating a firearm while intoxicated” sounds like a doable thing at the state level.

I have a couple of fraternity brothers who are friended on FB who have been linking piles of conservative trash. A few of them also work the petroleum industry including spending time in foreign oil fields (Indonesia, SA, etc.) I will keep an eye out to see how they decide to play up these events.

Was thinking about my brother who was almost going to take a job somewhere in Africa at some petroleum facility. High paying position dealing with water treatment equipment. Well, it was a hot zone even under normal circumstances. Fenced in “compound.”

I think we might want a “Shooting” while intoxicated law. Maybe the same as DUI-.08 and with similar penalties. At the ranges where I shoot alcohol possession is forbidden. Not even for an after event BBQ. No beer.

What do you think? “Operating a firearm while intoxicated” sounds like a doable thing at the state level.

Even without SUI legislation, I think this ought to be covered by basic reckless endagerment.

I saw those ‘statistics’ on Facebook yesterday. According to the dolt who posted them, Reagan signed a whopping 5 EOs in his two terms (RR’s actual number: 381).

Everybody gets their own personal set of facts nowadays.
/

At that rate, he was doing an EO once every 9 days. Really executive orders are common in the modern presidency. Acting like this is some new thing Obama has made out of control is completely dishonest. Just like Mark Levin whining about Obama’s “tyranny.”

Acting like this is some new thing Obama has made out of control is completely dishonest.

The most infuriating part is that Obama didn’t sign any EOs the other day. I pointed that out to a wingnut, and she responded by saying EOs and Executive Actions/Presidential Memoranda are ‘pretty much the same thing.’

Never mind the legal definitions of each - Obama did it, so they’re ‘pretty much the same thing.’

You simply cannot reason with these people. They do not want to hear it.

The most infuriating part is that Obama didn’t sign any EOs the other day. I pointed that out to a wingnut, and she responded by saying EOs and Executive Actions/Presidential Memoranda are ‘pretty much the same thing.’

The most infuriating part is that Obama didn’t sign any EOs the other day. I pointed that out to a wingnut, and she responded by saying EOs and Executive Actions/Presidential Memoranda are ‘pretty much the same thing.’

Never mind the legal definitions of each - Obama did it, so they’re ‘pretty much the same thing.’

You simply cannot reason with these people. They do not want to hear it.

Agree. They don’t want to hear it because they’re already set in their minds that anything Barack Obama does is bad and not only bad but done for sinister reason. You can’t reason with people like that at all.

The most infuriating part is that Obama didn’t sign any EOs the other day. I pointed that out to a wingnut, and she responded by saying EOs and Executive Actions/Presidential Memoranda are ‘pretty much the same thing.’

Never mind the legal definitions of each - Obama did it, so they’re ‘pretty much the same thing.’

You simply cannot reason with these people. They do not want to hear it.

What he signed off on was rather benign from the viewpoint of gun rights. Unless of course you’re into criminal tracking of guns and are opposed to a study by the CDC.

The most infuriating part is that Obama didn’t sign any EOs the other day. I pointed that out to a wingnut, and she responded by saying EOs and Executive Actions/Presidential Memoranda are ‘pretty much the same thing.’

Never mind the legal definitions of each - Obama did it, so they’re ‘pretty much the same thing.’

You simply cannot reason with these people. They do not want to hear it.

And a tank is an APC is an armored HMMWV. Or more apropos to this subject a clip is a magazine. “Pretty much the same thing.”

Agree. They don’t want to hear it because they’re already set in their minds that anything Barack Obama does is bad and not only bad but done for sinister reason. You can’t reason with people like that at all.

What he signed off on was rather benign from the viewpoint of gun rights. Unless of course you’re into criminal tracking of guns and are opposed to a study by the CDC.

Really for something being called the worst infringement ever on 2nd amendment rights, it was really a whole lot of basic stuff that I’d expect past Republican presidential administrations to probably do.

Really for something being called the worst infringement ever on 2nd amendment rights, it was really a whole lot of basic stuff that I’d expect past Republican presidential administrations to probably do.

Basically, if you’re against Obama on this, then you’re FOR putting guns back into the hands of convicted felons and FOR censorship.

The most infuriating part is that Obama didn’t sign any EOs the other day. I pointed that out to a wingnut, and she responded by saying EOs and Executive Actions/Presidential Memoranda are ‘pretty much the same thing.’

Never mind the legal definitions of each - Obama did it, so they’re ‘pretty much the same thing.’

You simply cannot reason with these people. They do not want to hear it.

A slashing attack like this has an especially high threshold to get its facts straight. The ad gives the impression that a phalanx of armed police are guarding students, such as the Obama and Gregory children, at Sidwell Friends.

But that is completely false. Far from being elitist, the relatively small force of unarmed security guards at Sidwell is not unusual for a school of its size.

Moreover, the ad also suggests that Obama rejects out of hand boosting security at schools, when in fact his proposals include provisions that would provide funding for more school security.

If the NRA is also trying to count Secret Service protection for Obama’s children as part of that force of armed guards, that’s even more ridiculous. As we noted, such protection is mandated under federal law — and only exists for the president’s children.

We could perfect time travel and take them to the Honolulu hospital and they’d still wouldn’t believe it. Someone please tell me how, when, and why the Republicans are going to moderate when their base is still cuckoo for shit puffs.

That’s not entirely correct. You can do your own research and get published on the subject, but the CDC and NSF have next to nothing in their budget to allocate to firearms research as a public safety issue. Because funding dictates what gets study and research dollars, the lack of funding means that there’s little funding available to carry out a critical study of the public health impact of firearms on American society.

Note that when you’ve got 12k homicides, a similar number of firearms suicides and several times that number in injuries, the health care costs are significant and measurable.

That’s not entirely correct. You can do your own research and get published on the subject, but the CDC and NSF have next to nothing in their budget to allocate to firearms research as a public safety issue.

Yes, but that state of affairs does in fact constitute a de facto ban. No academic outside the humanities can afford to do research without funding, and the vast majority of primary research funding comes from the government.

I think we pretty much agree on this, anyhow. I don’t think it’s an exaggeration to say that, in the past, you essentially weren’t allowed to pursue such research, since if you did so it would pretty much be the end of your academic career (good luck getting tenure without funding).

Attorneys representing an Idaho man, accused of trying to assassinate President Barack Obama by shooting at the White House in November 2011, are trying to get their client’s statements to law enforcement thrown out of court.

In court documents filed on Wednesday, lawyers for Oscar Ramiro Ortega-Hernandez said their client’s statements “were coerced,” adding that he was “handcuffed to a chair for two hours following his arrest.” Attorneys also said they have yet to find any document that says Ortega-Hernandez agreed to waive his rights and talk to authorities.

Ortega-Hernandez has pleaded not guilty.

He is accused of opening fire on the executive mansion with a semi-automatic weapon on Nov. 11, 2011. Obama was away from the White House at the time.

What he signed off on was rather benign from the viewpoint of gun rights. Unless of course you’re into criminal tracking of guns and are opposed to a study by the CDC.

I believe that’s why NY state acted so quickly to pass their new gun law. It’s pretty much devoid of extreme measures, it doesn’t affect guns already in ownership (for the most part), and it passed in a bipartisan manner.

IMO, that law will be the model for what actually gets sent to the House.

I notice that some of the furthest right wing nutcases on the internet are blinking on the debt ceiling.

Of course they’re not saying “defaulting is a really bad idea” they’re saying “the press lies and supports Obama. He’s a bully who holds all the cards.” and “He’s a communist who will use this crises as his final chance to destroy capitalism!”

That reputation they built up of Obama as a Cloward–Piven loving communist who hates America, capitalism, Christianity and the white man is finally coming in handy.

What he signed off on was rather benign from the viewpoint of gun rights. Unless of course you’re into criminal tracking of guns and are opposed to a study by the CDC.

I’ll say it again, the whole “encourage everyone to set up emergency procedures, and hire more cops” stuff leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I realize that such things are important, but as a “solution” to school massacres?

I believe that’s why NY state acted so quickly to pass their new gun law. It’s pretty much devoid of extreme measures, it doesn’t affect guns already in ownership (for the most part), and it passed in a bipartisan manner.

IMO, that law will be the model for what actually gets sent to the House.

GAZA CITY — The Hamas regime has closed down the massive tunnel smuggling network amid numerous cave-ins along the Egyptian border.

Officials said the Interior Ministry decided to close the estimated1,200 tunnels that connect the Gaza Strip to Egypt’s Sinai Peninsula. They said scores of tunnels underneath the divided city of Rafah were destroyed or damaged in wake of flooding from heavy rains in January.

I’m just saying that Obama can point to the NY gun law and say it was passed by both Dems and Republicans, and ask why the same thing can’t be done on a national level.

He brilliantly turned a few RW memes on their heads in the presser yesterday - especially the part about Americans’ rights being violated. I’m sure the NY law will come in very handy as a rhetorical device somewhere along the way.

What annoys me honestly is how some people like the NRA want the conversation to be about anything but guns. LaPierre went out of his way to bring up two films that came out when the shooter Lanza was younger than the victims of the shooting and ones I’d be honestly shocked if he saw more than once. And the video games. As someone from the same generation as Ryan Lanza, I can tell you that most Gen Yers have played video games yet obviously 99.9% of us aren’t mass murderers either. We should at the very least be aware the guns are dangerous and meant to be dangerous. A gun unlike a car or knife which I’ve too often seen guns compared to has a sole purpose of ending a life whether that life be human or animal. Let’s be honest about guns. Let’s not make bs arguments like credit cards are as dangerous or blame video games, films, etc.

The fate of hostages being held at a gas complex deep in the Sahara desert drew conflicting reports Thursday, with an Algerian news service reporting that 600 hostages were freed while militants claimed 35 were killed in an Algerian military raid.

Algerian news service ANP reported that the Algerian military conducted air strikes and a ground operation to free the hostages, who were picked up by military helicopters. It remained unclear if any of the hostages were injured, ANP said.

However, Islamist terrorists told a Mauritanian news outlet that Algerian military helicopters strafed the gas complex, killing 35 foreign hostages and 15 of the kidnappers, the Associated Press is reporting.

Adding to the confusion was and earlier AP report, citing an Algerian official, that as many as 20 foreign hostages, including an unknown number of Americans, had escaped their captors.

A spokesman for the Masked Brigade, which had earlier claimed responsibility for the hostage-taking Wednesday, said Abou El Baraa, the leader of the kidnappers, was among militants killed in the Algerian army’s helicopter attack.

Article makes a good point. They had a wave election at just the right time. Yet another good reason people should vote in all election years and not just presidential years. If more people would have voted in 2010, we wouldn’t have gotten as much Tea Party idiots in the legislature and governors’ mansions. I’m cautiously optimistic for 2014 but midterms are usually not favorable to the president’s party as we saw in 2010 but hopefully the American people know that the GOP is full of crap by now.

Article makes a good point. They had a wave election at just the right time. Yet another good reason people should vote in all election years and not just presidential years. If more people would have voted in 2010, we wouldn’t have gotten as much Tea Party idiots in the legislature and governors’ mansions. I’m cautiously optimistic for 2014 but midterms are usually not favorable to the president’s party as we saw in 2010 but hopefully the American people know that the GOP is full of crap by now.

We had a wave election as a racist and xenophobic backlash against having black son-of-an-immigrant president. That’s what’s gonna keep us screwed, possibly forever. Keep in mind that those overly safe districts effect who is going to be in the state houses for the NEXT census.

I do too, but for various reasons I keep buying dells along with insurance plans that cost more than the machines.

2/3 Dells came with some major part the breaks immediately. Motherboard on one, broadband card on another.

And it took me 4 months of hounding to get them to replace the broadband card with the 4G I had paid for. Even as they only shipped new machines that had 4G cards, they claimed that they couldn’t get a 4G card as a replacement. I refused to accept that and the damn tech support in India responded by harassing me with status calls every 3 days for 4 months, often by someone who had no idea why they were calling and wanted to ask me my problem from step one.

British Prime Minister David Cameron only found out about the military operations in Algeria after they were underway, a spokesman for Mr. Cameron said Thursday afternoon.

Mr. Cameron called Algerian prime minister Abdelmalek Sellal late Thursday morning and it was then that his Algerian counterpart informed him the operation was underway, the spokesman said. He added that Mr. Cameron had stressed in an earlier call between the two men that he wanted to be informed beforehand.

We (NY State) have a contract with them, so that’s all we have. They’re terrible. We had one whole line come in with a motherboard defect that caused some transistor or something inside to totally melt down and fry the thing.

My folks have one. I’m forever having to go over and fix the damned thing.

I often equate being a politician with prostitution, always with the caveat that I’m using the word metaphorically and have respect for actual prostitutes who are much more moral and do real work.

I don’t remember it word-for-word, but I heard a joke along those lines somewhere;
“The difference between a prostitute and a politician is that you pay a prostitute in order to fuck them, a politician takes your money and then fucks YOU.”

Unless part of that apology is a resignation letter from commissioner Gary Bettman, apology NOT accepted. He has literally driven the league into the ground during the past decade with his horrendous mismanagement.

Actually, I can’t fault them for that. I can’t tell you how many computer problems I’ve solved because no one thought to check the power.

Speaking of Dells: at some point, my Dad is going to need a new PC to replace his 8-year-old Pentium Dell running XP with 512MB RAM (yes, you read that right.)

I was just going to have him get a Dell, partly because they still sell some with Win 7 installed. Getting a Mac (which would make my life easier) isn’t an option.

If Dell is really going down the shitter, what kind of PC do the Lizardim Technorati suggest? I’d like to get one that will come with Win 7. Win 8 is just going to confuse the hell out of him; I’m not confident that Win7 isn’t going to be a problem.

We (NY State) have a contract with them, so that’s all we have. They’re terrible. We had one whole line come in with a motherboard defect that caused some transistor or something inside to totally melt down and fry the thing.

My folks have one. I’m forever having to go over and fix the damned thing.

All our work laptops and desktops are Dells due to contract. Luckily I don’t do desktop support, but the contractors I work with who do have lots of fun horror stories about the equipment, batteries, and getting software images properly installed (and one support guy says that the default one Dell supplies is really awful - but we have a corporate one that we use instead.)

I’m not sure anyone can trust the numbers coming out of Algeria at this point - whether you’re talking about overall number of people involved, casualties, or terrorists involved. The 600 seems a full order of magnitude different than every other report out there, and if there are multiple reports indicating as much, it is possible that they are referencing each other and not necessarily based on solid information.

It could be floated as an overall number of people involved so as to make the casualties from the raid seem much more reasonable - 10% of those held hostage killed, instead of like 50% or more in the raid. But it will be some time before we know what’s really going on. 24/48 hour rule… .

Actually, I can’t fault them for that. I can’t tell you how many computer problems I’ve solved because no one thought to check the power.

Speaking of Dells: at some point, my Dad is going to need a new PC to replace his 8-year-old Pentium Dell running XP with 512MB RAM (yes, you read that right.)

I was just going to have get a Dell, partly because they still sell some with Win 7 installed. Getting a Mac (which would make my life easier) isn’t an option.

If Dell is really going down the shitter, what kind of PC do the Lizardim Technorati suggest? I’d like to get one that will come with Win 7. Win 8 is just going to confuse the hell out of him; I’m not confident that Win7 isn’t going to be a problem.

When my last desktop (running WinME) finally gave up the ghost I opted to not buy another desktop. I ended up going into Best Buy and getting a non-top end HP laptop a few years ago. 16” screen, runs Win 7, and I put the Office Suite on it.

It’s been a good compromise solution. Big enough screen that I don’t really want/need a external monitor. Mobile enough that I can take it places like the game store or a friend’s house for role-playing sessions. Plus I can sit and use it in multiple places in the apartment.

Actually, I can’t fault them for that. I can’t tell you how many computer problems I’ve solved because no one thought to check the power.

Speaking of Dells: at some point, my Dad is going to need a new PC to replace his 8-year-old Pentium Dell running XP with 512MB RAM (yes, you read that right.)

I was just going to have him get a Dell, partly because they still sell some with Win 7 installed. Getting a Mac (which would make my life easier) isn’t an option.

If Dell is really going down the shitter, what kind of PC do the Lizardim Technorati suggest? I’d like to get one that will come with Win 7. Win 8 is just going to confuse the hell out of him; I’m not confident that Win7 isn’t going to be a problem.

I’m on my second Dell, with no Dell-related complaints. My only complaint is that my set up at work is much like your dad’s. We just got a 15” HP laptop for at home (I know, it’s a laptop, it doesn’t have to stay there…) with Win 8. I don’t find Win 8 confusing (maybe for the first couple of days…) I don’t know Win 7, because I skipped over that, but I think you might just be delaying the confusion if you go that route.

Unless part of that apology is a resignation letter from commissioner Gary Bettman, apology NOT accepted. He has literally driven the league into the ground during the past decade with his horrendous mismanagement.

Completely agree. If Bettman had a similar track record in just about any other job, he’d have been fired long ago. I cannot wait until the day he is no longer working for the NHL.

I’m Canadian. I love hockey. It’s in the blood. And yes, I will watch a few NHL games this year but I will not support the league otherwise. No tickets, no merchandise, no nothing.

It just pisses me off to no end that they played chicken with each other and waited until the LAST POSSIBLE MOMENT to put a deal together. We were literally a week away from (likely) losing another season.

When my last desktop (running WinME) finally gave up the ghost I opted to not buy another desktop. I ended up going into Best Buy and getting a non-top end HP laptop a few years ago. 16” screen, runs Win 7, and I put the Office Suite on it.

It’s been a good compromise solution. Big enough screen that I don’t really want/need a external monitor. Mobile enough that I can take it places like the game store or a friend’s house for role-playing sessions. Plus I can sit and use it in multiple places in the apartment.

Thanks. I’ll look into it.

The big problem is my dad is unfortunately in full-blown Old Man/I Hate Everything Different mode. I kept pushing him to get a new machine prior to the Win 8 release, but he wouldn’t budge.

He actually made some noises about going Mac based on his drinking buds using them (forget the fact I’ve 18 relatively incident-free years using and fixing them.) I keep telling him he needs to go try one out, just to make sure he’s fine with it. Not surprisingly, he loses interest ASAP.

If it wasn’t for the fact he touch types, I’d have moved him to an iPad by now.

Actually, I can’t fault them for that. I can’t tell you how many computer problems I’ve solved because no one thought to check the power.

Speaking of Dells: at some point, my Dad is going to need a new PC to replace his 8-year-old Pentium Dell running XP with 512MB RAM (yes, you read that right.)

I was just going to have him get a Dell, partly because they still sell some with Win 7 installed. Getting a Mac (which would make my life easier) isn’t an option.

If Dell is really going down the shitter, what kind of PC do the Lizardim Technorati suggest? I’d like to get one that will come with Win 7. Win 8 is just going to confuse the hell out of him; I’m not confident that Win7 isn’t going to be a problem.

I haven’t bought a new PC in 15 years - always found one that someone else in the family was giving away due to upgrades. But then I am a total cheapskate.

As for OS, I think anything up to Win7 is OK in terms of not-confusing-grandma, or at least that’s been my experience with grandmas and Win7. I’m increasingly of the opinion, though, that it’s just a question of delivering a solid web browser experience, since virtually everything is in the browser nowadays anyway (with obvious caveats for specific usage).

I’m not sure anyone can trust the numbers coming out of Algeria at this point - whether you’re talking about overall number of people involved, casualties, or terrorists involved. The 600 seems a full order of magnitude different than every other report out there, and if there are multiple reports indicating as much, it is possible that they are referencing each other and not necessarily based on solid information.

It could be floated as an overall number of people involved so as to make the casualties from the raid seem much more reasonable - 10% of those held hostage killed, instead of like 50% or more in the raid. But it will be some time before we know what’s really going on. 24/48 hour rule… .

As usual the MSM is so eager to report on these things first that they post any number that is told to them before checking to see how accurate they really are.

The big problem is my dad is unfortunately in full-blown Old Man/I Hate Everything Different mode. I kept pushing him to get a new machine prior to the Win 8 release, but he wouldn’t budge.

He actually made some noises about going Mac based on his drinking buds using them (forget the fact I’ve 18 relatively incident-free years using and fixing them.) I keep telling him he needs to go try one out, just to make sure he’s fine with it. Not surprisingly, he loses interest ASAP.

If it wasn’t for the fact he touch types, I’d have moved him it an iPad by now.

As usual the MSM is so eager to report on these things first that they post any number that is told to them before checking to see how accurate they really are.

Competent fact checkers just don’t exist anymore. How do you think Stephen Glass was able to get away with his fraud for as long as he did? And that was in the late 1990s. The problem has only gotten worse.

Gov. Cuomo outwitted the NRA and their affiliates by hitting upon the fact that the State Senate is a divided bunch and that the state GOP has a functional majority only because of breakaway Democrats. Keeping that caucus together is key to GOP power in the state Senate, so putting together the SAFE act took that into account and some of the provisions were tailored to address that.

Completely agree. If Bettman had a similar track record in just about any other job, he’d have been fired long ago. I cannot wait until the day he is no longer working for the NHL.

I’m Canadian. I love hockey. It’s in the blood. And yes, I will watch a few NHL games this year but I will not support the league otherwise. No tickets, no merchandise, no nothing.

It just pisses me off to no end that they played chicken with each other and waited until the LAST POSSIBLE MOMENT to put a deal together. We were literally a week away from (likely) losing another season.

We watch the Flyers fairly regularly. You’d think I’d have gone through cold turkey over the strike.

I literally have had to be reminded three times that the NHL was on strike. Didn’t even miss it. Of course, given the play of the other three Philly teams over the last year, I may have just subconsciously given up altogether.

The big problem is my dad is unfortunately in full-blown Old Man/I Hate Everything Different mode. I kept pushing him to get a new machine prior to the Win 8 release, but he wouldn’t budge.

He actually made some noises about going Mac based on his drinking buds using them (forget the fact I’ve 18 relatively incident-free years using and fixing them.) I keep telling him he needs to go try one out, just to make sure he’s fine with it. Not surprisingly, he loses interest ASAP.

If it wasn’t for the fact he touch types, I’d have moved him it an iPad by now.

hehehe. That’s amusing.

My father was massively anti-computer back in the 1980s. Saw them as time wasters compared to using other things at work, etc. etc. And got issued a Mac for home anyways. I took to it while I was home from college, mainly for game playing, but also for some other messing around. (No internet, but you could play with various programs.)

I think he eventually took to it as better software came out, I got a degree in computer science and flogged the usefulness to him, plus my mother got to using it for letter writing/work processing. With email it became an obvious asset since it saved on stamps and such - especially once the technology spread to relatives and others who he wanted to keep in contact with. Plus about that point all his kids were scattering to the four winds as well.

My mother took to it right off. But then again she was a librarian. ;)

It is kinda hard to determine the veracity of casualty counts in an active war zone or lawless region as Algeria’s border with Libya has been.

Same thing applies to Syria’s civil war and claims of atrocities. Just today, there were claims that Assad’s forces killed more than 100 in Homs, but no one outside the country can really verify any of the figures. We can only extrapolate from multiple sources if possible, and then go back once the conflict is over and get a better handle.

Former Bush Attorney General Michael Mukasey appeared on the Fox News Channel’s “Hannity” Wednesday night with a message that left the host looking rather disappointed.

Rebutting the Republican talk show host, Mukasey said that President Barack Obama’s executive orders so far have been legal, as much as he finds them distasteful. He even expressed agreement with the Supreme Court’s finding that the Affordable Care Act is constitutional, leaving Hannity looking perplexed.

Speaking about the president’s most significant executive actions thus far, Hannity exclaimed: “It seems me to be, by definition, abuse of power. A power grab if you will… Is it then unconstitutional in some instances?”

“I don’t think it’s unconstitutional in the sense that I don’t think it’s something you could get a court to find unconstitutional,” Mukasey replied. “We could have a debate about whether it’s consistent with the constitution or not, but there is a limited number of things that will get you into court to have that decided, and I don’t think any of the things you’ve enumerated are among them.”

The big problem is my dad is unfortunately in full-blown Old Man/I Hate Everything Different mode. I kept pushing him to get a new machine prior to the Win 8 release, but he wouldn’t budge.

He actually made some noises about going Mac based on his drinking buds using them (forget the fact I’ve 18 relatively incident-free years using and fixing them.) I keep telling him he needs to go try one out, just to make sure he’s fine with it. Not surprisingly, he loses interest ASAP.

If it wasn’t for the fact he touch types, I’d have moved him it an iPad by now.

We watch the Flyers fairly regularly. You’d think I’d have gone through cold turkey over the strike.

I literally have had to be reminded three times that the NHL was on strike. Didn’t even miss it. Of course, given the play of the other three Philly teams over the last year, I may have just subconsciously given up altogether.

Just slipping back into the old and familiar Philadelphia sports teams mind set, are we?

8 is venturing into the touch-screen format. I’m strictly a DYI (I build my own) gamer and touchscreen stuff for that is useless to me. Also, it’s their first foray into the field and a lot of the tech for desktop usage is still catching up to it. I would avoid it at this point. If that’s something he wants you could always go with an iPad (one of our co-worker’s father is 86? and he loves his iPad).

I love 7. XP Pro was great as well, but 7 isn’t buggy at all for me with a high-end system, has great features and you can plug just about anything in and the default drivers will allow it to function properly.

Sorry, I know dick about pre-builts outside of knowing that I hate Dells with a passion. NewEgg.com has a good amount of pre-builts and I buy most of my parts from them, no problems whatsoever. Could always try reading the reviews.

I have a desktop because I can build (well, assemble) a desktop and did so a few years ago. I have a tablet - an HP touchpad - that I got for $20 from someone who got peeved when the then-incoming HP CEO turned out to have a personal hatred of all things palm and killed support. When I was ‘the computer guy’ for the library I learned that all the companies make good - and bad - machines, and support quality this year in no way guarantees next year (good or bad).

My general recommendation these days is the same as it was back when I was selling in the 1980s. Decide what you want it to do, both now and reasonable future. Find the software that does that. Figure out the hardware you need. Double the RAM and Hard disk specs and jump at least on tier in processor if you’re planning to use your computer more than three years due to normal growth of software demand. Price, and choose the second-least expensive option. Unless, that is, you’ve got someone you trust to build you a box to your needs and be around to fix the inevitable problems. Notice that nowhere in there do I mention brand, not even of components. Just… figure out what you need and get it.

On this blog, a lot of time is spent investigating patriarchal attitudes about women’s roles, and how in a patriarchy women are expected to be a servant class to cater to men and not people in their own right. In this system, children face a similar kind of oppression. As women are believed to be the servants of men, children are believed to be extensions of the father, and to display utter fealty to his way of thinking so he can demonstrate his power to other men. That’s why conservatives are so hostile to public education. The children are to believe what Daddy believes, no matter how silly Daddy’s beliefs, and if that requires censoring the truth and going out of your way to hide it from children, so be it. The rights of children to have an education will always bend in this worldview to the rights of the conservative Christian father to control the brain space of his kids.

That’s why conservatives are so dogged in trying to find ways to get into the schools and replace biology with creationism. It’s a symbolic battle for them. Winning it is achieving a symbolic demonstration of their belief that the father’s right to brainwash his child trumps the child’s right to an education.

My father was massively anti-computer back in the 1980s. Saw them as time wasters compared to using other things at work, etc. etc. And got issued a Mac for home anyways. I took to it while I was home from college, mainly for game playing, but also for some other messing around. (No internet, but you could play with various programs.)

I think he eventually took to it as better software came out, I got a degree in computer science and flogged the usefulness to him, plus my mother got to using it for letter writing/work processing. With email it became an obvious asset since it saved on stamps and such - especially once the technology spread to relatives and others who he wanted to keep in contact with. Plus about that point all his kids were scattering to the four winds as well.

My mother took to it right off. But then again she was a librarian. ;)

Dad actually took to the computer fairly well. He has no problem using them, in that respect. Hated e-mail at first, until he realized he could deal with people he didn’t like without actually talking to them. Got over that in a hurry.

Part of the problem is that he still seems to have issues with the fact I know way more than he does about this stuff. The classic was back in ‘94 or so, when I told him I was going to Computer City to get some 3.5” floppy disks.

According to that article, the CEO of whole foods has called the Affordable Care Act “socialism” then walked it back
then he had to call it “fascism” and didn’t really walk it back
And he’s a global warming denier.

It’s time for Whole Foods to fire him. Their customer base is progressive yuppies, he’s toxic.

My dad bought me my first personal computer, a VIC 20, when he bought one for himself. He had retired and was driving my mom crazy hanging around the house with nothing to do. He got curious about computers and finally my mom told him to just go out and spend the money for god’s sakes. He bought two because he figured I’d like it too. He was right.