03 October 2007

Seriously, this is so emblematic of the Bush administration it's almost a self-parody. The guy can't find his veto pen for five years of binge and purge spending, then objects to a $7 Billion a year expansion of health care for the poorest children. The guy pushes through a $40 Billion government-funded prescription program but claims that a modest expansion of children's coverage is "socialized medicine." Best of all, he throws another log onto the electoral self-immolation of the Republican Party by forcing them to vote (and again and again) against a popular and humane program supported by 63-86% of the Americal populace.

Angry moonbat Orrin Hatchsaid:"It's unfortunate that the president has chosen to be on what, to me, is clearly the wrong side of this issue... If we're truly compassionate, it seems to me we'd want to endorse this program."

Well, the other 65% of the country figured out years ago that Bush's "Compassionate Conservatism" was a campaign lie. Don't worry about the kids, though, Orrin, as Dubya himself said, "They can always go to the ER."

29 comments:

Your girlfriend Hillary Clinton wanted New York children to be covered by SCHIP up to 400% of the poverty line---$83,000/year for a family of 4.

Remind me, knowledgeable arbiter of childhood suffering, why I should have higher taxes to pay for this program? Should people like me, single mothers who make a solid middle class income, be taxed higher YET to provide insurance to people in that income level? Really? Why not just say "F it" and tax me to pay for all "uninsured" kids whose parents make up to 2 million dollars? May as well not let ANYONE suffer.

SCHIP was designed for low income children who had no access to insurance through private means, not the middle class. Good thing Bush vetoed it. That's his job---to make those tough decisions.

In New York, especially New York City, $83,000 a year for a family of four can be on the verge of poverty. Two parents can easily be making $40,000 each working their two or three crappy jobs each and neither of them might have insurance for themselves let alone their children. They certainly wouldn't be able to afford private insurance for themselves due to the high cost of housing etc here--especially if you don't want to live in the projects or a neighborhood that has decent public schools.

Just FYI the bill as passed goes up to $63,000, or 300% the poverty level, not $83,000 as previously claimed.

Catron,

Oh mercy me, pork? Fetch the smelling salts! I agree that pork is bad. For conservatives to discover this at this late junsture, after six years of the most profligate porkery (?) ever is hypocritical beyond belief. you know, pot...kettle, something like that. Please don't pretend that you have a shred of principle left.

Face the simple fact that George Bush will only support any improvement in health care when it is blended with some huge taxpayer givaway to his overlords in industry. (ref: Medicare Part D)

You like male Oprahs in empty suits? Odd fetish, but if it works for you...

BTW, 300% of poverty level---yawny yawny, same thing. $63K for a family of 4 ain't like big dough or anything, but that's still over 5K/month. You can rent a top-end apartment here, drive a couple of decent cars and still have 3 grand leftover for anything but insurance because the government will give it to you for "free."

You still haven't explained how the little children in this income level are "suffering" other than their parents can't be bothered to insure them.

One little pre-existing condition with the kid (like chronic otitis media, asthma or eczema) and the family is screwed. Saw a 14 yo kid last night - his parents can not afford to insure him because the premiums were too high because he has asthma. Gross income is just above Medi-caid limits.

My patients in the free clinic I work at frequently are you or me, not low lifes, they just can't get insurance. It just ain't that easy for someone to just "buy insurance" for ones family.

Considering pre-existing conditions, the cost of health care, and employers being responsible to provide the majority of insurance, children need all the support they can get. They are our future and need to be taken care of to the utmost level. What happens when more then one person in a household of 200% the poverty level is ill? Or Parents cannot afford the deductibles or co pays for their children after the mortgage, taxes, food, and utilities? Not to mention schooling and basic needs. Really what we need is a health care system where so many people including children don't fall through the cracks. If you think about it, preventative care in a doctors office is cheaper then the ED. Should the ED be patient be uninsured, you will pay more for it then you would just covering the bill of insurance anyway. Our system needs a remodel. There should be standard prices on CT's and MRI's, labs, care, etc. This two tiered system is failing us all. Health care should be a right, not a privilege. Maybe we should show our children that by covering their basic health care needs.

Nurse K:So, what would your son do if you became ill? Or lost your job and had to work at a SNF?

What would you do if he were in a MVC (by an uninsured motorist), broke his arm, hit his head and needed a costly MRI for a brain bleed only to find out he needed more tests? Not to mention an ambulance ride. How about if you were in the car with him?

Maybe you have insurance that covers it now, but surely you have a deductible. A going rate these days for a hospital employee is 85% coverage. A $50,000 dollar bill leaves you with a $7,500 bill.

Well this is not going to happen to me you say! These things are rare! Well Nurse K, it may not happen to you but it happens to people. They need something to catch them when it does.

Maybe if you experienced something like this close to home you would understand.

How about the kids without insurance that cannot afford preventative care? Proven fact that a lack of preventative care leads to early deaths.

Maybe you ought to think about someone other then yourself for a change.

What happens to your neighbor happens to you. You just need to open your eyes and see the connection.

Not to mention that we are the only industrialized nation that does not take care of our people's health care needs. Take a look at the stats! We spend 16% of our GDP on health care yet we rank 37th! Our satisfaction rate as a country is only 10% as compared to Canada with 9.4% GDP spent and a 56% satisfaction rate. Or how about France? 8.9% GDP with a 41% satisfaction rate. They may not be perfect, but everyone has health insurance and they are happier with less money spent then we are.

Our country is falling behind economically also. Here is one factor to consider.The new car you just bought from GM had an extra $1255 dollars tacked on so GM can afford to insure their employees. That's $1255 more dollars American car companies charge then any other industrialized nation for that same car. See a pattern here?

At some point a company can no longer compete with the cost of insurance due to raising medical costs and they drop insurance plans or lay of mass amounts of employees.

At some point, this will have an effect on you and your children.

Let's take a step forward and provide some health insurance!!!

For all of you who wish to check the facts:

Budrys, Grace. Our Unsystematic Health Care System, 2nd edition.

Seccombe, Karen and Hoffman, Kim. Access to Health Care in the Aftermath Of Welfare Reform; Just Don't Get Sick.

And what happens, if like me, you are doing well and playing by the rules and BAM! I now have 4 disabled children and a disabled husband. I'd love to work but gee, HR has a fit when they learn that I have 5 kids. Then, start the CPR when they learn I am the sole support. Eventaully everyone knows that I have 5 kids, 4 disabled and a disabled husband. I have had two employers actively work to get rid of me in spite of glowing performance reviews. And now, one kid needs a kidney. Guess who gets to donate. Manure happens.

PS. I, myself, have no insurance. We do not get food stamps or TANFF payments. Just Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security Disability. Do not cry any tears for me but you need to know that most people on welfare are white, have less than 3 children, are on for less than 2 years.

If you want to hear my tales of woe regarding poverty, email me and I'll tell.

crasspollination@yahoo.com

For instance, the story of the winter where I slept on the kitchen floor next to the oven (which we used to heat the house) because we couldn't afford to fix the furnace or the story entitled "Where do you shit and piss when your sewer line is frozen from your house to the street and you can't afford to fix it?" [Short answer: Not in your toilet] Or maybe you'd like to hear the tale called, "Living uninsured with Type 1 diabetes, a kid, an alcoholic husband and no money."

Not every family has to have (or is entitled to) two cars, and they don't have to pay 1300/month for daycare. There are usually other solutions. Oh, and preventive medicine doesn't prevent asthma or diabetes. Sorry.

But that's OK. I'm sure that the responsible people who only have a kid or two and live within their means will be happy to pay more in taxes to support the irresponsible folks who crank out more kids than they can afford. And if they aren't happy, then screw 'em. That's the liberal version of the American Way (TM), right?

And when the concept of two-tiered healthcare is finally eliminated, when everyone is entitled to the same (shitty) level of care, and physicians are universally paid at Medicaid rates (good luck finding one), don't cry when it isn't the panacea you envisioned.

You speak with the voice of experience. How do you feel about the resources you had at that time? Clearly you got by somehow, but I am willing to bet it wasn't easy. Do you think that we as a society can do better? Do you think that we as a Christian nation should try to do better?

This is really the attitude that informs my political beliefs. I feel that we have a moral obligation to help the most vulerable and needy members of our society. It's not hard, and not expensive, especially in comparison to the other things we spend a lot on. Seriously, the amount of the federal budget that goes towards social programs like welfare, medicaid, schip and the like are miniscule in comparison to the total budget. The value of healthcare funding to someone who is otherwise unable to obtain it is far in excess of the monetary cost of the program.

Last time I checked Diabetes had risk factors that were controllable (sans type I). Hmmm. A sedentary lifestyle, poor nutrition, increased prolonged stress. To me that sounds like a preventable disease that for the most part could be avoided with simple education. I can tell you I have NEVER been educated by an ER doc. I usually am informed of these risk factors at physicals. The only reason I have ever gone to a physical is for prevention.

Asthma is common in children who live in poor living conditions.. rat feces....peeling paint, dust sound familiar? That is preventable. Most children with these chronic conditions live in poor conditions. Highly preventable.

Gee, most of the doctors I have heard from in other countries say they would not step foot in our country to practice medicine in our whack job of a system.

Not to mention, I am not a socialist. I vary on the ISSUES at hand. There is no classification system for that. Why must everything be so static?

I agree with anonymous. Most people on welfare or needing health insurance are the working class. We shouldn't allow it to happen the way she is experiencing. My thoughts are with you for the Kidney Transplant, donor and recipient.

As for Nurse K. My point is not to pick on you and drudge up memories to compare stories with. My point is that people in this country are suffering and instead of fighting about it or complaining about taxes, we sit down and figure out a solution where everyone compromises. Seeing as how you have had some similar experiences and problems in the past I would think that you would be more open to seeing improvements in our Health care system that would benefit those currently in that situation now.

We live in one of the wealthiest countries in the world yet we can't take care of our own people!

Just because people's health care may be more available by offering it to them would not take away the fact they are poor.

You are thinking in the box here. Step out of it.

I am not saying that we must tax the rich to make up for the poor not having health care. I am saying our system needs a remodel.

We spend more money then anywhere else in the world on health care. Maybe if we revamped our system and reorganized how our money is spent to include more people under the umbrella of health care we'd have a better system.

Recent figures have brought to light that the cost of doing this sort of revamping wouldn't necessarily be out of reach.

Maybe, just maybe if we changed some of the aspects of how medicine is practiced and stopped ordering so many unnecessary tests, put a halt on the significant cost creeping "just because I deserve it, I'm better", changed the laws and punishment system on malpractice we would have doctors who are not afraid to think without a CT, or an MRI, or some other test. These are highly overused. They raise the costs. At what point is this not part of the problem? Not every Abd pain pt needs one of those tests. Or vicodin and percocet for parting gifts. We are overusing Pharmaceuticals like they are going out of style!

The makers of Viagra spent $303 Billion Dollars on advertising. First quarter earnings were $363 Billion. Sorry, you can't have your insulin you don't have insurance. But hey! You have ED? Forget trying to reduce your stress and improve your nutrition, or heaven forbid, quite smoking (and for the 25% of you who have ED while using drugs, we'll hide that under the rug)!! Just take some Viagra because you can afford it.

I could go on forever on how many aspects are not working efficiently. However, the main point here is the health care system is failing all of us. We need to do something about it.

In the meantime, Medicine in this country is a privilege. How moral and humane is that behavior?

so·cial·ism /ˈsoʊʃəˌlɪzəm/ –noun1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

cap·i·tal·ism (kāp'ĭ-tl-ĭz'əm) Pronunciation Key n. An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market.

Neither of these textbook definitions work. We need a new system. So do yourself a favor and stop throwing words around.

We live in a mixed economy. Look it up. We are disproportionate in our balance of capitalism and socialism. The only reason we have unions in this country is because of Capitalism!

Excess capitalism leads to revolt because so many people become poor and angry and violent at the wealthy. Remember the French revolution? I can hear the words coming out of your mouth.. "Let them eat Cake!"

Liberty Quality and Eternity didn't work for the French.

In other words, we are heading towards the same fate as what other countries have suffered. France is why we have a mixed economy. It is why we have so many laws to spread the wealth! Yet we are moving away from this ideal.

Take a look at France today! Much different and their people are treated much better, not to mention they all have health care. 56% are even SATISFIED with it!

Ha! I've been called a Socialist (twice). I hereby invoke Godwin's Law, Socialism corollary, and declare myself the victor!

Seriously, I'm no socialist. I'm rich by any rational standard, very much enjoy being rich, and work hard to become more so. I like capitalism. However, I also think that Jesus wouldn't have spent so damn much time talking about the poor if He hadn't thought it was pretty important, and maybe wanted us to do something about it. That's the most critical point I've taken from the Gospels, to me as important as redemtion or forgiveness or resurrection. Maybe more important.

The best way I see to address poverty is to use the institution of government and to follow the maxim of "from each according to abiliy and to each according to their need."

shadowfax,As you know, Jesus also spent intimate time with the rich: Mary & Martha, Nichodemus, and Joseph of Aramathea for starters. As a Christian, I am also compelled toward social justice. I believe generating jobs, and lowering taxes is the effective way to do this. Expanding Medicaid (as in Schip) and eliminating the pool of insureds is not.

Shadowfax

About me: I am an ER physician and administrator living in the Pacific Northwest. I live with my wife and four kids. Various other interests include Shorin-ryu karate, general aviation, Irish music, Apple computers, and progressive politics. My kids do their best to ensure that I have little time to pursue these hobbies.

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