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Author
Topic: Just curious........................ (Read 8745 times)

...............if you look under "Treatment Questions," and then under the thread "Stop Meds,".......you'll see someone has stated their experience and their opinion. And, they were given a warning.

Also, if you look under "Treatment Questions," and then under "Aids and the future," you'll see someone has been given a warning near the bottom of the page for their tone and didn't call anyone a name or use profanity..............unless you consider crap, profanity. Also, it was suggested to this person that they look at other threads and see how people talk to one another. I find that a joke.....................I mean should he look at the "Tyra Banks," thread, oh that's right she will probably never see this................so what does it matter.

Now, I've seen here where people can state clearly that they don't like "Tyra Banks," or the way something was done in the "Anna Nicole" situation. So, is it only okay to put people down or say mean things if the people aren't on this forum or dead and the people most likely won't see what is written and won't reply.

I've heard sarcasm used and profanity abounds. I'm quite guilty of the sarcasm myself. Frankly, I enjoy a little sarcasm.

But exactly where do guidelines apply and where do they stop, why do they apply to some and not to others. I've had an issue with things someone wrote and things someone said and pointed this out................. I in turn was told I was rude...............but that's okay...................I'm not part of the clique............................the elite or established forumites.

I've brought up the topic of hypocrisy and of course it was read but no replies were made, well at least not on the thread but perhaps amongst the clique in private.

Is it that people are afraid of the global moderators, should we not express how we feel even if it may differ from a global moderator. The last time I checked, my existence, thoughts, ideas(similar or conflicting) are as important as anyone's. It may be true that I don't express myself as well as I could or would like or in a way that someone else would like.................but, I do attempt to maintain some civility.

I'm sure that many people here may be bothered by something someone says.............I don't need someone to be warned, or threatened. What I'd like is the chance to speak my mind just as they have.............................nothing more.

And, I don't care if someone states how they feel about Tyra Banks, but I don't understand why when I have stated how I feel...................and I don't think I've come close to the way she has been bashed when I expressed my feeling towards another forumite...............that I in turn am told I am rude. Although, I can assume, it's because people stand behind the people they like and don't feel the need to be objective.

But, please feel free to point out how I've been so rude............................but then be sure that you haven't done the same or worse.........................does it matter if the person will ever read what you wrote....................I'm certain it doesn't.

I consider myself to mostly be a very positive person, but it's easy to get depressed as you often feel like the outsider being new when you go into these forums and that you don't belong. Of course, this does not hold true for everyone here obviously. I've met a few nice people, people that send me private messages. Yes, can you believe, I am able to find a few people that like me. And, no it isn't my goal to be liked by everyone. At least, I will not become a different person so that I can be liked by more. That's not to say that I don't think I can do things differently and perhaps that would bring more people into my life. Can't we all do better? Can't we all be better people than we are today?

I don't care if you're tired of my ramblings as you are Tyra Banks.................have you thought someone may be just as tired of yours...................and no, I don't mean to just be speaking to the person that began the Tyra thread.................if it applies, it applies...............if it doesn't, it doesn't.

I did state once before that I do attempt to treat people as I'd like to be treated..................and of course something smart was said about that...............but that's okay.................well, at least in the person's eyes that said it.....................and that person's fan club.

But, we could all take a good look at ourselves and examine our actions. Thank you for reading, and I wish you well!

And, I thank you and applaud you for your voice, sincerely. But, you're wrong about one thing, I don't have to accept it. I will continue to speak out when I see things that aren't right.....................or that I think are hypocritical. I may get the boot for it......................and about that I'd have no choice.

Perhaps, it wasn't necessary.......................................but I'm guessing the other person felt the need to say it.............................I don't know myself what kind of day they were having.

Have you ever thought that and not said it to someone? I know I've thought it.

I see people that smoke that are worried about the side effects of HIV Meds........................I don't get that and I've pointed it out.....................of course it's not usually received well.

But, how do you put that cigarette in your mouth, knowing the possible effects and yet you are frightened about the effects of HIV meds? Well, it's just the way people are................isn't it?

Under the thread, "I did something good" which I know you're familiar with, jkinatl2 said to me that "maybe offering some support would establish you as a decent guy with a vested interest in the well being of others with HIV.

Well, one week, some time ago, I settled myself into a hospital room voluntarily. I was about to receive another cycle of Interleukin-2, of which is part of a study in which I am enrolled and don't receive compensation. At the same time I was volunteering to have a lymph node biopsy, and two IV's to have BRDU and Deterium injected, for which I would later have to do apheresis. I did get paid for the additional studies and that was a big part of my motivation for doing them. I got an infection from the lymph node surgery and needed to take antibiotics and then got C-Diff.

Now, I don't state this to be self aggrandizing or make myself seem important, but to make a point that I don't think someone needs to tell me that I need to prove I'm a decent guy with a vested interested in the well being of others with HIV.

But, as I'm sure you sided with the other party in that whole thread, you'lll have no empathy for how I felt about this, either. And, if I'm wrong, I'm sorry.

I know this wasn't a necessary comment as were others made under that thread.

Of course, it's speaking from experience..............limited as it's been my short time here.............that this thread will just be declared a "pissing match" and ended by the global moderator.

Well, you know what, I take offense to having my feelings deemed a pissing match! But, that's okay if you're a global moderator, apparently.

But, you know what Andy and Ann, you're simply appointed here to be global moderators, and frankly I don't think either of you do such a great job.

Gee, what will I do when you kick me out of your clique.....................................it must be nice to feel as though you're just so important. And, it's not like I have the money to travel to San Fran to meet and greet others in this club. I mean San Fran, that says something as well..................one of the most expensive cities is chosen for people with HIV to meet.....................well, I guess that it's mostly for rich people with HIV................and yes, I've been told there is some assistance provided.

And no rich people with HIV shouldn't make any apologies for not having the financial hardships that some others with HIV have.........................I mean only Tyra Banks or Oprah should stop talking about themselves.

Why don't you tell us what it's like to be able to travel so much, Ann. Share your pictures............do you think it makes others sometimes just a little aware of what they don't have or aren't able to do................but you're not showing off..........................it's just sharing..............I know.

Am I angry, you're darn right I'm angry............................probably not as bothered as you'd believe. But, just sick of the hypocrisy I witness............................and when others stand up for their friends simply because they are their friends.

We are not all in the same boat..........................except in regard to having HIV/AIDS. I don't begrudge people the things that they have...............................but if you can make someone feel bad and you're a global moderator.....................should you be a global moderator....................perhaps, but then you should remember that people are as human as you are!

ManISOMan, you haven't been here long enough to see how much work the moderators go to keep the boards running proficient. If you don't like the way this site is being operated then they're plenty of other sites for you to visit.

Why don't you tell us what it's like to be able to travel so much, Ann. Share your pictures............do you think it makes others sometimes just a little aware of what they don't have or aren't able to do................but you're not showing off..........................it's just sharing..............I know.

Scott,

Huh? Travel? I wish! I haven't been anywhere in ages, aside from my six-weekly visits to clinic in Liverpool. I live on benefits (I'm not a paid moderator) and barely make ends meet just living day to day on the Rock. I'm not going to SF either, because any spare money I can scrape together goes to making sure my daughter finishes school.

I'm sorry you think I participate in "cliques" on this website. I do as best as humanly possibly to be fair in any of my moderator related activities.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

You know, the funny thing, to me, is that I haven't a clue who Tyra Banks is. Unless she has something to do with me, people close to me, folks here on the forums, is in some way helping/ hurting our treatment of HIV, I couldn't care less.

As to the cliques... I know groups that are friends here on the forums. They say about the same things in their replies. They're also pretty harmless. I've been here a year (today, actually) and haven't been harmed by them. I do ask for support, advice, or info when I need it. I also try to give the same to others. When you describe all the 'good' you're doing by being in a study, that's great. That would be a good subject for a post. It doesn't have squat to do with how you're judged here, though. I judge you like you've walked into my house during a party. How you treat my friends and me, and how you act in general, is how I judge you. Who or what you are outside the setting that I know you makes very little, if any, difference. I'm not going to say everybody else here feels this way, but I'd certainly say that a lot do. At least that's how I feel I've been judged.

Scott, with regard to the particular thread you're concerned about, there's an issue involved in the situation about which you, as a recent arrival at the site, may not be aware.

We have for several years had to deal with serious invasion attacks from HIV denialists whose stated goal is to destroy this site.

There was a question in my mind about whether the writer might or might not be connected with denialists since some of what he wrote reflects denialists position regarding meds. They come on to the site in all different modes and not always immediately apparent ones.

But I also recognized he might have been writing in good faith which is why I issued a "warning," figuring that if he was legitimately just expressing his own experience it would become clearer in subsequent exchanges. It was a judgement call on my part which you may disagree with, but one which I felt was necessary.

I'm glad you have found your way to this site and hope you find it to be helpful and supportive.

..................I'm not part of the clique............................the elite or established forumites.

I've seen the clique referred to time and again but I'm still at a loss to know who its members are. Because some of us have been here a while and have several friends we joke together and make silly comments sometimes but those comments are usually nonsense and not intended to be critical or mocking.

Quote

I've brought up the topic of hypocrisy and of course it was read but no replies were made, well at least not on the thread but perhaps amongst the clique in private.

I read your post and could not reply because, frankly, most of it was ranting or close to it. Your post was so long it would have taken me hours to respond point by point, and if I had I doubt your mind would have been changed at all.

Quote

I consider myself to mostly be a very positive person, but it's easy to get depressed as you often feel like the outsider being new when you go into these forums and that you don't belong.

You know, ISO, I had those feelings too when I was new here. I think most of us have had them to some extent. The fact is if you stick around you'll find yourself more comfortable as time passes.

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Of course, this does not hold true for everyone here obviously. ...I did state once before that I do attempt to treat people as I'd like to be treated

Right, you've already connected with some members and will undoubtedly connect with more. Again, as time goes by you'll find yourself a member of your own clique, if you wish to call it that, and AM will not seem so alien or depressing. It's just a matter of getting used to this place.

Treating others as I wish to be treated is a goal I share and believe many other forum members feel the same way. We don't always meet this goal but it is still one to aspire to.

Cheers,

Boo

P.S. Edited to add: I have no idea who Tyra Banks is nor did I read the thread. I assumed she is some sort of "celebrity" and I'm uninterested in celebrities.

P.P.S. Edited again to add:

Quote

Frankly, I find David NC's reply to be given in quite an unfriendly tone

I'm sorry, the tone of David's response is courteous and candid. As is mine. I am not responding to goad you, I'm explaining how I see the forums. That's what David did and he said nothing inimical to or critical of you. In fact, I believe he was using "you" in general and not referring strictly to you, or that's how I read it.

« Last Edit: March 03, 2007, 01:20:43 PM by Boo Radley »

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String up every aristocrat!Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!

David NC,Frankly, I find it hard to believe that you haven't heard of Tyra Banks, but based on what you've told me that you judge people by how they treat your friends. I'm sure Tyra Banks has friends as well, and would certainly have issue with things that have been said, and that point isn't whether you know her or not.

But, I believe I could probably pick out your friends.

And if my friends treat people in a way that I find unfriendly, then I'd certaily be able to point that out to my friends, and not join in an attack the stranger. But, I guess I'm just funny that way.

Andy, thank you for your response, at least you addressed how I feel. But, in my own life I have experienced a few things. I've been in a chat room where someone uses the ID of "Aidsisover."Do, I like this.......................no definitel not. And I've spoken with him until he had to stop speaking with me. I simply based how I felt about Norman's posting.....................from Norman's posting.Again, just the way I like to approach things.

Ann, I don't feel you even come close to addressing my feelings................but you did respond. I do apologize if indeed you are not selective about how you treat people.

I appreciate that this thread wasn't closed. Thank you for reading Andy and Ann. And, Andy thank you for the welcome.

But, being who I am, I do have to say, I appreciate your reply Elizabeth.........I think it was quite appropriate. Frankly, I find David NC's reply to be given in quite an unfriendly tone............but that's just me.

And I received a private PM, someone told me that forums are like life, basically we don't all get along and as in the predatory world...................."the antelope fears the lion."

I've done it on other forums and you are dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. Like a soccer ref, you are going to get one team complaining every time you blow the whistle. Given what I have seen on this forum since 2003 I think people give Ann and Andy less credit than they deserve. I've seen the good work they do in the "AM I INFECTED" forum to keep out denialists (a big problem in 2003) and stopping worry-wells posting personal questions in the "LIVING" forum about how big people's lymph nodes were when seroconverting. A lot of that work is unseen and having posted in the "AM I" forum for a few years I appreciate what they do.

I've been told to quiet my posts by both of them at times, and all times I did. We are all subject to the sometimes flaming of the written word and sometimes it needs someone to calmly tell them to calm down.

R

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NB. Any advice about HIV is given in addition to your own medical advice and not intended to replace it. You should never make clinical decisions based on what anyone says on the internet but rather check with your ID doctor first. Discussions from the internet are just that - Discussions. They may give you food for thought, but they should not direct you to do anything but fuel discussion.

In defense of DavidNC, I think you are probably reading an "unfriendly tone" in it that wasn't intended. This is one really nice guy we are talking about here. He has a history of trying to step in diplomatically when some members have gotten their feathers ruffled with one another- he's done it for me personally. And from what I read in his post, I have to say that I respond similarly: if someone comes on the scene and starts going after somebody that I consider a buddy, I'll want to step in to rally on my friend's behalf. That's just me.

PS: Maybe I'm still cloudy headed from being sick, but the whole Tyra Banks angle of this is confusing. How did she become so heavily wound up in this discussion? It must be some thread exchange that I missed.

Well nameless HIVworker,As David NC has made it clear to me..................When you describe all the 'good' you're doing by being in a study, that's great. That would be a good subject for a post. It doesn't have squat to do with how you're judged here, though.

And yet, it's so important to point out the 'good' work of moderators.

I don't even think I used the word good when I told of my involvement with HIV studies, but they do mean squat to me................and I'm guessing to the people that have asked if I'd be involved with doing addtional studies or to agree to a Thymic scan or anything else. And, I did make my reasons clear for mentioning why I am involved in studies..............but then I guess that wouldn't exactly make me a decent guy, perhaps it only proves I have a 'vested interest in the well being of others with HIV." And, then I guess that's only to say that interest includes the physical part of it, not the emotional part.......................

So, if you just haven't helped to prove my point further about hypocrisy here............then I must me a raving lunatic.

So, thank you for mentioning in any way about anything good or bad I may have contributed to anything at all.

Well, thunter34,I'm not sure why it's so confusing.................as you yourself has posted on that thread.............perhaps one of Tyra's friends should explain...............................perhaps then you'd understand................you know how friends rally behind their friends.

Somehow, I think I'm wasting my time.........................and the fact of the matter is that you may feel DavidNC is nice as you've stated he's intervened on your behalf.....................well, a few here have done the same for me....................for which I'm thankful.

And , let me state this clearly.........................as it is important to appreciate and note the positive as well as the negative.........

................while a few here feel the need to intervene or explain on behalf of their friends, or explain to me what their friends intent is or isn't..............

...............at least Andy's last words to me were that he was glad I found my way to this site and that he hopes I find support................................................that I greatly appreciate!!!

It's no wonder you aren't making many friends on here! Talk about an "unfriendly tone"- yeesh!

No, David didn't intervene "on my behalf". He stepped in to try to smooth things out when there was a miscommunication between myself and another member. He wasn't positioned on my side or the other person's.

Somehow, I think I am the one who is wasting my time. I was only making a statement about the very real quality of character that David has.

And in response to people we think are nice or aren't nice.............

................I believe it was a good majority of the people in Christ's time, or at least the majority that mattered.................that helped to condemn him and put him on the cross................perhaps many were afraid to let their voice be heard.........

.............are you thinking now...............how is this any more relevant than the reference to Tyra.................and if you are thinking it......................well..................I guess just think on it a bit longer.

..................and some of you might possibly be thinking, "oh this guy thinks he's like Jesus Christ."Well, as I've just recently read somewhere, probably on the lengthy debate about the bones of the Holy family...................if we do believe in God, and we are made in his image................isn't some part of God in all of us.

thunter34,I'm not saying that David intervened on your behalf......................but that that is what you were doing.

And, I have made friends..................they may not be the same ones you have...........but then I guess there is a reason for that as well.....................and just because you don't see my pm box doesn't mean that I haven't made friends.......................but thank you for that!

Why doesn't that surprise me.........................so you don't like me or Tyra......................that's okay.

I don't have any feeling about Tyra Banks one way or the other, really. I do not know the woman. That's what was ''confusing'' to me about this whole Tyra Banks angle to this discussion. I do not equate dishing on celebrities with how forums members choose to address one another here on AM.

You know what's really cool? I've been mentioned in this post more than in almost any other! Most of the mentionings were positive, too. And Tim is correct; I've tried to settle things down between member I don't even know, as well as those that I do personally know without siding with either.

And also for the record: HA! I checked out the threads you are referring to in the original post of this thread. Both deserved warnings from the Moderators and neither is an example of any real hypocrisy. The first one walks the line of espousing denialist theory. This is something that is CLEARLY declared as a violation of the Terms of Use for this forum. The second one has a guy basically telling other members to stop being a bunch of cry babies feeling sorry for themselves about their HIV...on an HIV support forum.

And also to note: Andy called the guy "sun", not "son"...because the guy's handle on here is sunzidog. Addressing people by the first few letters of their online handle is a common practice and not indicative of any disrespect. I'm sure Andy is aware he is not the guy's father (as you say). Got it, Man?

.............Andy, I apologize, as thunter34 has pointed out, I didn't think that that is how you were addressing the new guy. I am sorry for the comment I made about that regarding that you are not his father.

..............I am capapble of admitting I'm wrong

Andy, please accept my apology!

But, as far as the warnings go, I still feel the same way. And get over yourselves, you act like someone is going to come and steal HIV/AIDS away. So, ha to you thunter34.

Of course this place is "cliquey" Scott. Just like with any other group of people there were relationships established here long before you buzzed into the hive, doll.

So let me see, you've been here for nine or ten days, you've not posted anything in Living With (where most of the positive members hang out) preferring as you do to haunt Orf Torpic and the treatments specific forums and you're suprised that nobody really cares what you think?

Dear me and you seemed like such an intelligent chappie.

It might surprise you to learn that, again as with any other group of people, there are some accepted cultural norms that prevail here in the Forums. Before you go twink slaying or even hunting more serious game, such as Moderators, you might want to learn about those norms.

You know, find out how things are done around here.

So forgive us if we're cliquey. It's just that we've grown used to one and other. We're yet to see any reason why we should take you into our confidence.

You'd like me to elaborate.................................the way you've pointed out that I was wrong to say something to Andy about how he addressed the new guy is absolutely correct..............and certainly the way you should stand behind a friend. Something positive said from me about you.

Now...........what have you had positive to say about me................meanwhile you rag on Tyra Banks and you don't get this......................she's not in this room to speak up or have her friends come to her defense. But, that's okay because you and David NC and others should have the right to free speech, but just don't let someone else dare say something to someone that is a friend of yours.

And, this all started because I pointed how aupointillimite had written something which I thought was the exact opposite of how he actually felt. So, that just makes me the biggest asshole in the world...................since I think it's unkind to simply ignore an unexpected visitor...................and so many have made it clear that they feel the same way................................so, you can feel ettiquette is much more important than being honest and telling an unexpected visitor that you really aren't up to company at the moment and I guess that it's okay to ignore them. Well, I think that's a horrible way to treat someone..............whether they are unexpected or not. But, that just makes me a real fucking, horrible person. Well, if that's what it makes me.......................I'd rather be that than like you any day of the week.

And, check out the stopmeds thread now, someone else isn't afraid of what Norman has said and applauds them.......................but then I'm sure they're not on your list of friend either...........I mean how could they be....................they might think differently than you.

...Sorry...I wouldn't want to take up to much precious space here...afterall...the topic of porn does seem to be one of the more popular items in the AIDSmeds/POZ Community Forums...and I don't have a problem with porn...just saying...I'll try to control myself with the dots...

And, this all started because I pointed how aupointillimite had written something which I thought was the exact opposite of how he actually felt. So, that just makes me the biggest asshole in the world...................since I think it's unkind to simply ignore an unexpected visitor...................and so many have made it clear that they feel the same way................................so, you can feel ettiquette is much more important than being honest and telling an unexpected visitor that you really aren't up to company at the moment and I guess that it's okay to ignore them. Well, I think that's a horrible way to treat someone..............whether they are unexpected or not. But, that just makes me a real fucking, horrible person. Well, if that's what it makes me.......................I'd rather be that than like you any day of the week.

Things slow at the RamRod tonight petal?

Benj's treatment of his unwanted guest may run contrary to the received ettiquette amongst the PnP crowd of SoFla but what makes you think we care?

And if we're so vile that you'd rather not be like any of us, why do you stay?

I no longer live in SoFla...and haven't been to the Ramrod in years...but I see you're not unfamiliar...and if I want to leave...I'll leave...not because you think I should...there are nice people here...but thanks for letting me know how you feel...you're too kind!

I was wondering, ManISOMan, if there is anything anyone can do for you to make you realize that someone else's thread isn't all about you. This thread, however, is, and I'm afraid it reveals someone who is desparately trying to fit in, but angry about not being able to do so. Your anger isn't going to help you.

Tell you a secret: every group of people forms cliques. Everywhere. All the time. Period. You will fit in some and not in others.

On the Internet, people feel perfectly comfortable telling you off where they wouldn't directly to your face. Growing a thick skin really helps.

I personally find it a bit off putting when someone creates a thread which is a commentary about everyone else's threads, sort of like a personal bitch session. It's not very becoming. You can disagree with anyone you want to here, but remember, they can disagree with you too. If you feel personally attacked, then say so, but get over it quick, because it's just not that interesting to read someones personal gripes about everyone else.

There are some really popular people on this forum who don't like me. Guess what. I don't really actually care that much. Because when it really comes down to it, I have the friends I need. And, even the people I don't get along with rally to help those in need on this board. So, ultimately, they get my respect.

I suppose you will find a lot to take offense here. I suggest you take a deep breath. If you want to make friends, you might consider being friendly.

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Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.

Not that I need to prove anything to you...but I'm not part of the PNP, crowd...but yet again...not a term you're unfamiliar with...

In fact, I don't drink alcohol at home... the last time I put my lips to a joint was when someone asked me to see the movie, "Kong" and it gave me such a terrible headache that it last until the next day...I don't like the way it made me feel...but wasn't such a prude that I couldn't give it puff before the movie...the other person did enjoy how it made him feel...and I've not been to the movies with that person since.

The last date I hade, the guy smoked, and I didn't even go back in his house...because I didn't want to be around the cigarette smoke...