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symbolset writes "Enthusiasm about Google's Kansas City fiber project is overwhelming. But in the Emerald City, the government doesn't want to wait. They have been stringing fiber throughout the city for years, and today announced a deal with company Gigabit Squared and the University of Washington to serve fiber to 55,000 Seattle homes and businesses with speeds up to a gigabit. The city will lease out the unused fiber, but will not have ownership in the provider nor a relationship with the end customers. The service rollout is planned to complete in 2014. It is the first of 6 planned university area network projects currently planned by Gigabit Squared."

I for one believe in internet. The internet makes people stupid and shortsighted, which is why I never use it. My secretary and wife Laura handles all my internet usage for me. As internet usage increases, so will moronosity, advancing the day when I shall rule the world! Ha ha ah ha ha ha ahhhhahahaha!!!!

I think it is awesome that they are trying to get fiber through out the city but 55,000 is a really really small number. From the math in the article it is going to cost them $3636.37 per residence/business they connect to the network. Any idea how that compares to google's plans in Kansas city cost wise?

I think it is awesome that they are trying to get fiber through out the city but 55,000 is a really really small number. From the math in the article it is going to cost them $3636.37 per residence/business they connect to the network. Any idea how that compares to google's plans in Kansas city cost wise?

Seeing as I live in one of those areas, and all i can get it either crappy DSL, evil Comcast Cable, or stupid wifi thingy, I'm pretty cool with this. At least till i see what it's going to cost me monthly. I'm signed up and debating on if i should get involved to get the word out to my neighborhood to sign up to show interest.

Ya it is a start but I'm a bit dubious about the cost and such. Telecom companies are kinda notorious for taking funds that are supposed to be used to improve their networks and connect more customers and pretty much doing very little with it and giving the rest away as bonuses etc.

I would be nice to leave comcrud but it looks like I am just shy of the coverage. I think this is awesome though. Even if I end up moving out of the area by the time it gets more coverage this really should be public utility.

My area isn't included and I don't have LOS to anywhere without a mast on the roof. Not that I expect this to ever be completed and working.
Comcast residential has hosed me elsewhere in the past but the *business class* service has worked well for 4.5 years.

I've had Comcast (previously, @home) broadband at my current address for a little over 10 years. Figure $60/mo, that's $7,200. Obviously there will be maintainence and upstream bandwidth costs, but the numbers don't seem so out of line to me, especially with borrowing money being so cheap right now.

I said "other fiber companies" because I've been following GPON since it started getting installed around here and all the "success stories" are claiming prices per house ranging from $700 to $3000 with near $1500 being the most common.

Wow. $1,500 per house sounds expensive at first, until you compare average cost/benefits analysis. Spread out over 3 years gives you a ROI price of $41.66 per month. (If you charged $41.66 for 3 years, you'd get your money back)

Spread over 10 years is $12.50/month. Suddenly that's not so expensive, and interest rates are at all time lows. A company with AA+A+A+++ credit should be able to easily support this kind of expense with a 10 year term at 8% or less.

There will always be an initial cost, but this is usually paid back in a specied timeframe. My general expectation is that you don't break-even for two years. I also believe that captilism sometimes benefits from a government investment at the right level. In this case the government pays for the general infrastructure, but in doing so allows for competition at the ISP level. Competition prospers, users get choice, business gets to concentrate on service and in general everyone wins.

From what it looks like, that project started out great, but then was infected with a bunch of anti-government types who insist on the private sector at all costs, even when it's clear to everyone that the private sector has no interest in doing what needs to be done and is just going to take money to sit on their asses.

You think since Microsoft is based out of Washington they would want put there stamp on it and call it Microsoft Fiber just to rain on Google's recent fiber success. See these are the NEWS generating things Microsoft needs to do get themselves into the spot light not that I am a Microsoft fan but you would think someone at Microsoft could think these things.

I don't know about KC, but in Boulder, CO the power utility Xcel in 2008 delivered fiber to the curb for every home and business in the city of 100,000 (it was planning to run its smart grid demo over it). But the cost ballooned from $15 million to $45 million just to install the fiber and Xcel abandoned the project not long after the fiber was installed. Now the fiber network is only used to periodically poll meters every few minutes and may go dark entirely if Boulder decides to break away from Xcel (they

This is perfect. All FTTH/FTTB should be tax supported "infrastructure" instead of run by thieving corporate scumbags. All fibers should terminate in a neighborhood or regional carrier-neutral "meet me" room where anyone with backbone (pun intended) could offer connectivity to any customer just by running a jumper or configuring a switch remotely. Then the customer is free to choose the flavor of thieving corporate scumbag he wants to deal with. Sign me up for a mix of Level 3 and Cogent please!

I am fine with the scumbags building and maintaining the network. The problem I have is that our government pays money to the scumbags to build and maintain the network and then allows the scumbags to hold OWNERSHIP of the network. The creation of the network should be a work-for-hire job in which the government pays a company for the materials and the process of assembling those materials into a working network. At all times, those materials and the finished network should remain property of the people just like how we own all of the other parts of our infrastructure. Then our local governments can contract out the maintenance of the network equipment to the company that built the network or other competent companies. If the performance of the company serving the maintenance contract is not up to the satisfaction of the people they serve, then their local government can choose another company after the current contract expires. This system would save us from the current system of regulated monopolies that everyone rightfully hates.

Before you jump for joy for tax financed fiber you should look at how good UTOPIA fiber is doing in Utah. It's a complete disaster mainly because of the garbage pricing plan.

From TFA: "HOW MUCH WILL GIGABIT SEATTLE COST? Our rates are yet to be finalized..."

If their pricing plans work out like UTOPIA ($3,000 to install plus $70 a month) I suspect this will have a similar fate. Not everyone can afford that much initial cost and lots of tax dollars will be required to keep it afloat.

As a former Seattlite, I applaud the city's efforts, and I wonder what this will mean with respect to cost for the end user and competition in the market:
" The city will lease out the unused fiber, but will not have ownership in the provider nor a relationship with the end customers"

Can there be multiple lessees along particular routes, or is the whole thing likely to be gobbled up by Comcast or FIOS?

This really should have happened years ago. Centurylink is already upgrading their bandwidth speed in the area. Sure, I'm not going to complain about them going above and pressuring for fiber, but this would have made a much bigger impact several years ago.

When I posted the above comment, this story had no comment and I was in hope for a first post. Oddly, my comment disapeared after I posted it, and the story remained with no comment. Then it came back after other posted.

Is there a set of keywords that cause a comment to be spared for review before getting displayed?

Be prepared to pay double or triple what you should for this. This would be more efficiently handled by the private sector in a competitive environment. There is no reason tax dollars need to go to subsidize this when it has been proven time and time again that government involvement translates into higher prices, more screwups, and more debt for us all.

yeah, look how efficiently comcast, time warner, verizon et al are rolling out the gigabit fiber.

Too bad you don't know what you're talking about. Except for the two dozen or so buildings serviced by CondoInternet.net, that area of Seattle has the worst ISP services in the metro area. Very bizarre since so many startups are located around there. If the private sector was up to doing this, it would've already happened long ago.

I hope he doesn't mean ending the free-ridership zone downtown...or the viaduct's replacement...or 520...the emerald is only half green, but with 420 legal, we'll see a boon for government spending in the coming years...shit i am highhhh

I'm going to point out that the main part, that is, the business part of downtown Seattle is barely a mile long and about 6 blocks wide. And the free bus ride was pretty much only for that area (it was a little bigger). So if you used the free bus ride a lot, pay up, or stop being lazy.

I'm also going to point out the people that will miss the free bus ride the most are the people who would get on the bus with no money and expect a free ride when it got out of the downtown area. So if that is you, HA

Organize your neighborhood then city and pass a bond you can then defer the cost of capital investment over 30 years. Amazing communism plus capitalism defeating unregulated oligarchies in the free market.

i've been sitting in seattle, well, since forever... and this is at least the third try at this. comcast the evil monopoly that holds seattle in its death-grip will try everything that was successful at shutting this down and then-some before letting this through. they will start with "incentives" (building computer labs in the schools for example), then move to bribes (there's a hot mayor race coming up. watch if one candidate suddenly gets a zillion in outside funding. "but that's illegal!!" yeah... right), then legal threats like suing for restraint of trade (which have turned the trick before). they may also get federal, using a bribed federal regulatory agency to shut down the endeavor. so as much as i'd love to see this, and might even directly benefit, this ain't going to go down smoothly. this is a fairly fidgety "David" against an massively monetized Goliath.

i've been sitting in seattle, well, since forever... and this is at least the third try at this. comcast the evil monopoly that holds seattle in its death-grip will try everything that was successful at shutting this down and then-some before letting this through. they will start with "incentives" (building computer labs in the schools for example), then move to bribes (there's a hot mayor race coming up. watch if one candidate suddenly gets a zillion in outside funding. "but that's illegal!!" yeah... right), then legal threats like suing for restraint of trade (which have turned the trick before). they may also get federal, using a bribed federal regulatory agency to shut down the endeavor. so as much as i'd love to see this, and might even directly benefit, this ain't going to go down smoothly. this is a fairly fidgety "David" against an massively monetized Goliath.

You do know that comcast only covers parts of Seattle, right? I part of where i live, Capital Hill and Beacon Hill don't have Comcast, they have a different cable provider. I tried to find a map of what Comcast covers, but that seems impossible. I did find a map of Fiber Optics in Washtington, from last year and you can see a big void in Seattle:http://www.uptun.org/2011/08/29/fiber-optic-coverage-in-seattle/ [uptun.org]

Seems to me that Comcast should have no say. They had their chance and they didn't do anything

Not saying its right, but Comcast, the other Cable Providers, AT&T, Verizon, etc. will probably all join together in suit to shut it down. They've done it before to other municipalities, even where residents paid to have the fibre optic line installed and split between their homes the telecoms industry has suited and gotten judges to shut it down. Its sad, but true.

The map you're looking for is here [seattle.gov]. If I remember correctly, yellow is Millenium/Broadstripe/Wave, everything else is Comcast. In shaded areas of the Comcast section, Millenium can wire individual apartment or condo buildings. For example, I live in a Comcast area of Capitol Hill but we only have Millenium in my building, most likely because they offered either the building management or the builder an incentive (e.g., wired the building for cable for free in exchange for a multiyear contract).

you paid for the city government to lay dark fiber for years, then they are handing it off to a private company who will gouge you to flicker lights at the ends of it?

yes I know there is more to it than flickering lights, but I also know the ISP is not going to provide this service for operating cost + small percentage, they will run with it, charge as much as every other fiber service and you footed the bill for their infrastructure, that is "on lease" at a deep discount for might as well be life.

you paid for the city government to lay dark fiber for years, then they are handing it off to a private company who will gouge you to flicker lights at the ends of it?

yes I know there is more to it than flickering lights, but I also know the ISP is not going to provide this service for operating cost + small percentage, they will run with it, charge as much as every other fiber service and you footed the bill for their infrastructure, that is "on lease" at a deep discount for might as well be life.

If this had been a good idea, then there'd be no need for the government to get involved. Individuals having free choice would have spent this money in a way that better fits their individual needs, most likely stimulating more decentralized, less censorship-prone means of delivering a high-speed connection. Even though there are private companies involved, this is nonetheless socialism (fascism). Once government is involved, restrictions (ex. "Net Neutrality") are sure to follow and spread. Trading freedom for useless extra bandwidth (that like 99% of people don't need) is never a good thing.

yep, the government should never have arranged for you to get electricity, sewer lines, telephone, roads, or any of the other widespread physical networks that it makes sense for everyone to have one of but not so much sense for there to be three of.

I would also like to know how this compares with the deployment costs and deployment methods used by EPB in Chattanooga, TN for their Gigabit network. http://chattanoogagig.com/ [chattanoogagig.com]. I had a 100MB synchronous connection in TN for the same price I pay Comcast for a 20Mb down/ 364kb up link in Seattle area.

depends. Define 'normal'. Remember home businesses, telecommuters, folks who watch a lot of netflix streaming, folks who use dropbox et al for offsite backup of substantial amounts of data, and business ideas that are infeasible right now but could be possible given widespread high bandwidth (3-d hi-def video phone!)