top 25 recruiting class for the first time? A bunch of 4 star players coming in? Oh I wonder how

Yeah, Iím talking about declaring Harris better thab Durham and Garland better than Bell. Neither of those guys have played a second for the Hogs and Durham and Bell had nice individual accomplishments. Weíre not talking about Dee Wagner and Doobie Jenkins.

15-16 team was awful besides Hannahs, Kingsley duo, Bell had a rough year and our 4 spot was a travesty, we should win 20 games this year with just our hustle and want to these guys have shown with the talent they have.

Exactly right, those players Heath and Pel left for Coach Mike really slowed down the fast forty, plus that APR thingey too. Now that we have CMA recruits...look out.

Any intelligent basketball/Hog fan knows next year's team is nothing but a wildcard, so it's quite an assumption to say they'll be better than '15-16.

I agree with you. Definite assumption. But that was a very undermanned and not as talented team. This years team, despite their youth, has a lot more talent and depth than that team does on paper. Just a waiting game now. Never know how they will respond to big time competition.. but thereís a feeling they will be able to learn how to do that this season.

Yeah, Iím talking about declaring Harris better thab Durham and Garland better than Bell. Neither of those guys have played a second for the Hogs and Durham and Bell had nice individual accomplishments. Weíre not talking about Dee Wagner and Doobie Jenkins.

Letís quit shifting points away from what Iím clearly addressing.

The Daryl Macon/Jalen Barford class started a new era of recruiting in my opinion. Arguably only top 25 classes starting there and since then.

Yeah, Iím talking about declaring Harris better thab Durham and Garland better than Bell. Neither of those guys have played a second for the Hogs and Durham and Bell had nice individual accomplishments. Weíre not talking about Dee Wagner and Doobie Jenkins.

Letís quit shifting points away from what Iím clearly addressing.

Well Harris started for D1 NM as a freshman and was starting show some heavy recruiting interest while Durham was at a JUCO as a freshman and wasn't even a highly rated Juco coming out of Juco.

Bell was a 3* recruit. He gave his all and Mike juiced every bit out of him that he could, but he was rather one dimensional as a player. Joe clearly has NBA potential. Joe has the height, athleticism, is supposedly a lock down defender, better shooter and ball handler. Oh I forgot you said you don't know if Garland is better than Bell. Come on, Garland is a beast if he'll play. Not the best comparison, though, we should compare the shooters.

Youíre giving bell and Durham too much credit. With how many minutes they played and the system, the stats were obviously going to come. CMA has definitely upgraded.

I'm pumped about the potential of the new guys, but Durham's senior season is serially underrated. He had historic assist rates normalized for minutes played, better than John Wall at UK with much less talent around him and a fraction of the TOs that Wall had. Durham had arguably the best ball-handling year in school history, and Kingsley wasn't as efficient without him while surrounded by more scorers the following season. Durham is also the best defender in the backcourt among CMA's guards here. Durham wasn't a great scorer, but we shouldn't have needed more points from him.

That team was better than most believe. The guards and Kingsley were quite good. They needed one more forward that could move the needle at all to turn some of those agonizingly close losses into wins. If either Qualls or Williams had been on the court, as they should have been, I think they make the NCAAT. Both, and they might have been at least as good as the year before. The gaping hole at PF combined with no true wing negated a lot of excellent play that season.

The unique aspect of the guard group coming in is that they in theory fill all roles in fairly neat slots - ball-handling, shooting, quickness, and length. We shouldn't have a small guard playing the wing or trying to decide who wants to be the primary distributor. We'll have to see how well they fill those roles before putting too many expectations on them for next season, but the wide range of possibilities includes a high ceiling.

I'm pumped about the potential of the new guys, but Durham's senior season is serially underrated. He had historic assist rates normalized for minutes played, better than John Wall at UK with much less talent around him and a fraction of the TOs that Wall had. Durham had arguably the best ball-handling year in school history, and Kingsley wasn't as efficient without him while surrounded by more scorers the following season. Durham is also the best defender in the backcourt among CMA's guards here. Durham wasn't a great scorer, but we shouldn't have needed more points from him.

Durham was amazing his senior year. I would take his ball handling and assist/TO ratio in a heartbeat. Steals and assists all day from your PG, let your other players make the buckets. Very underrated player for what he did. Notice how Hannahís and Kingsleyís scoring efficiency and percentages went way down the year Durham was gone.

I'm pumped about the potential of the new guys, but Durham's senior season is serially underrated. He had historic assist rates normalized for minutes played, better than John Wall at UK with much less talent around him and a fraction of the TOs that Wall had. Durham had arguably the best ball-handling year in school history, and Kingsley wasn't as efficient without him while surrounded by more scorers the following season. Durham is also the best defender in the backcourt among CMA's guards here. Durham wasn't a great scorer, but we shouldn't have needed more points from him.

That team was better than most believe. The guards and Kingsley were quite good. They needed one more forward that could move the needle at all to turn some of those agonizingly close losses into wins. If either Qualls or Williams had been on the court, as they should have been, I think they make the NCAAT. Both, and they might have been at least as good as the year before. The gaping hole at PF combined with no true wing negated a lot of excellent play that season.

The unique aspect of the guard group coming in is that they in theory fill all roles in fairly neat slots - ball-handling, shooting, quickness, and length. We shouldn't have a small guard playing the wing or trying to decide who wants to be the primary distributor. We'll have to see how well they fill those roles before putting too many expectations on them for next season, but the wide range of possibilities includes a high ceiling.

Yeah, that was a fun team to watch, easy group to cheer for too. For whatever reason....I really liked that team.

Yeah, that was a fun team to watch, easy group to cheer for too. For whatever reason....I really liked that team.

But you’re really critical of all the other teams that make the NCAAT right?

Maybe you liked that team bc it pushed CMA to the brink of being fired?

Would make sense.

That ‘15-16 really had no chance. Maybe Niels boars is right and they were close. They were definitely a dynamic 4 and stronger depth away from making the NCAAT in my opinion. That can’t really be considered close in my opinion. I know this upcoming team will be better than ‘15-16.

I'm pumped about the potential of the new guys, but Durham's senior season is serially underrated. He had historic assist rates normalized for minutes played, better than John Wall at UK with much less talent around him and a fraction of the TOs that Wall had. Durham had arguably the best ball-handling year in school history, and Kingsley wasn't as efficient without him while surrounded by more scorers the following season. Durham is also the best defender in the backcourt among CMA's guards here. Durham wasn't a great scorer, but we shouldn't have needed more points from him.

That team was better than most believe. The guards and Kingsley were quite good. They needed one more forward that could move the needle at all to turn some of those agonizingly close losses into wins. If either Qualls or Williams had been on the court, as they should have been, I think they make the NCAAT. Both, and they might have been at least as good as the year before. The gaping hole at PF combined with no true wing negated a lot of excellent play that season.

The unique aspect of the guard group coming in is that they in theory fill all roles in fairly neat slots - ball-handling, shooting, quickness, and length. We shouldn't have a small guard playing the wing or trying to decide who wants to be the primary distributor. We'll have to see how well they fill those roles before putting too many expectations on them for next season, but the wide range of possibilities includes a high ceiling.

Agree with this 100%. People don't realize how good Durham was his senior year, I'm a huge fan of his, he's my favorite most recent Hog, absolutely loved watching his assists and his on ball defense was amazing. He was the best true PG we've had since Kareem Reid IMO. And he was a leader, he kept that team together and in those games. And like you said that team was a forward and wing away from being really good. I don't think people realize how bad our forward situation was outside of Moses. I remember watching an open practice and Coach Watkins was on Keaton Miles the whole practice and looked so frustrated with him, he just did a bunch of head scratching stuff. If Williams wouldn't have got kicked off the team that 15-16 season would have ended up much differently.

But youíre really critical of all the other teams that make the NCAAT right?

Maybe you liked that team bc it pushed CMA to the brink of being fired?

Would make sense.

That Ď15-16 really had no chance. Maybe Niels boars is right and they were close. They were definitely a dynamic 4 and stronger depth away from making the NCAAT in my opinion. That canít really be considered close in my opinion. I know this upcoming team will be better than Ď15-16.

I don't think he was ever on the brink of being fired on the 15-16 team, he actually garnered a lot of respect for the coaching job he did that season. I remember the guys on the SEC Network had a vote for their top coaches, and they had CMA in the top 3 for the coaching job he did that year. That team was pretty much a 4 man team with Hannahs, Bell, Durham, and Kingsley. Manny was solid role player off the bench that year, but after that we didn't get much else from the rest of those guys.

I don't think he was ever on the brink of being fired on the 15-16 team, he actually garnered a lot of respect for the coaching job he did that season. I remember the guys on the SEC Network had a vote for their top coaches, and they had CMA in the top 3 for the coaching job he did that year. That team was pretty much a 4 man team with Hannahs, Bell, Durham, and Kingsley. Manny was solid role player off the bench that year, but after that we didn't get much else from the rest of those guys.

Well it did. The 16í-17í year was make or break for Mike because of the 15í-16í team and how long it took to finally make the tournament.

Well it did. The 16í-17í year was make or break for Mike because of the 15í-16í team and how long it took to finally make the tournament.

I must have missed that... I keep up with the coaches on the hot seat articles, and I don't remember him ever being in talks of being on the hot seat nationally other than the typically people on hog message boards that always thinks he's on the hot seat and Jeff Goodman (known Anderson and Richardson hater). The 16-17 season would have had to had gone really bad for him to had got fired after that season. He probably would have been on the hot seat going into 17-18 had the 16-17 team not done well.

Well Harris started for D1 NM as a freshman and was starting show some heavy recruiting interest while Durham was at a JUCO as a freshman and wasn't even a highly rated Juco coming out of Juco.

Bell was a 3* recruit. He gave his all and Mike juiced every bit out of him that he could, but he was rather one dimensional as a player. Joe clearly has NBA potential. Joe has the height, athleticism, is supposedly a lock down defender, better shooter and ball handler. Oh I forgot you said you don't know if Garland is better than Bell. Come on, Garland is a beast if he'll play. Not the best comparison, though, we should compare the shooters.

I agree on the recruiting classes.

But at the same time, the players still have to prove up to their recruiting rankings. You can't automatically assume that high 3* or low 4* players are just going to waltz into here and be better than Jabril Durham (who I get was an unheralded JUCO recruit), who was #2 in the SEC assists as a senior and a big reason why Kingsley had the great season that he did, and Anthlon Bell (who I get was a 3* recruit), who was a serious 3-point threat and averaged nearly 16 points/game as a senior. It doesn't matter how much opportunity they had that season -- you still have to be good enough to capitalize at the end of the day.

I'm completely on board with this year's team being better than the 16-16 team. I have no doubt we'll have a better record than that even with a tougher schedule. But I am not convinced that Jalen Harris will be better than Jabril Durham at his ceiling and the same with Isaiah Joe being better than Anthlon Bell at his ceiling. I believe that Joe will prove to be better than Bell, but he does have to prove it. I won't just assume it. I'm less certain on Harris, though.

I would like to think Garland would have a greater impact than Bell did, but we were all very letdown by the great 2011 recruiting class. Rickey Scott was said to be a top 4 defender at his position coming out of high school (Rivals) and led the DFW metro in scoring as a senior. Couldn't buy a bucket at Arkansas. Mardracus Wade was also rated as a top 4 defender in that class. He was a solid defender at Arkansas, but both were major letdowns. Letdowns happen. Garland has shown us nothing. I guess we're at odds here because you don't seem to have the balance of expectation/possibility/probability that I have.

Yeah, all this other stuff about years past needs to stop or at least have a separate thread.

Wow, just ran right on past that like a stop sign in the middle of the desert. Well damn, if it's just that you're too lazy to start another thread, I can start one for you guys to continue this discussion of previous teams so that people don't stop checking back here for more info about the team and pick up games.

Fascinating discussion about the '15-'16 season and Durham though. By all means continue, but elsewhere.

How well pickup games are going, while interesting to hear, provide absolutely no information on how well this team will perform this year. Most pickup games have little to no defense being played and called fouls having no impact. Whether it is basketball we are talking about or even football, you don't know what you have until you start playing other competition. It is easy to play against players that you are familiar with and have become accustomed to their moves and tendencies. Much harder when you play against someone for the first time and have to figure out where they like to shoot, which hand they favor when dribbling, etc. Then throw in refs calling fouls on you that went unchecked in pickup games.

Good to hear that they seem to be playing together well though and I do think we have some talented freshman coming in that will make some noise during their time here. Just may take a year or two of getting used to how the game is played on the D1 level and how the game is officiated vs how they were officiated in high school. Looking forward to the season. I do believe Mike has finally stepped up his recruiting and I also believe the chances for us getting past the first round are going up also.

How well pickup games are going, while interesting to hear, provide absolutely no information on how well this team will perform this year. Most pickup games have little to no defense being played and called fouls having no impact. Whether it is basketball we are talking about or even football, you don't know what you have until you start playing other competition. It is easy to play against players that you are familiar with and have become accustomed to their moves and tendencies. Much harder when you play against someone for the first time and have to figure out where they like to shoot, which hand they favor when dribbling, etc. Then throw in refs calling fouls on you that went unchecked in pickup games.

Good to hear that they seem to be playing together well though and I do think we have some talented freshman coming in that will make some noise during their time here. Just may take a year or two of getting used to how the game is played on the D1 level and how the game is officiated vs how they were officiated in high school. Looking forward to the season. I do believe Mike has finally stepped up his recruiting and I also believe the chances for us getting past the first round are going up also.

Only a fool would say how a player performs in pick-up games translates into how they'll preform in REAL games. I'm just excited about new bodies and hearing how a kid looks as far as strengths and weaknesses and how certain players play together. I'm not understanding why people wish to derail this thread (which is clearly titled) and turn it into something completely off topic.

Only a fool would say how a player performs in pick-up games translates into how they'll preform in REAL games. I'm just excited about new bodies and hearing how a kid looks as far as strengths and weaknesses and how certain players play together. I'm not understanding why people wish to derail this thread (which is clearly titled) and turn it into something completely off topic.

Have you ever seen hogs rooting, fighting, squealing and shoving over slop at a hog trough during feeding time? Well, that's what posting in Jump Ball is like and pretty much all the rest of Hogville.

Not derailing anything. Just stating the obvious that anyone drawing any conclusions on this team based on pickup games is betting on fools gold. I also stated it was good to hear they seemed to be playing together and that the reports are interesting, just that they won't really be that informative. Haven't said anything about not reporting what they are seeing. Any news helps pass the time until the season starts and I like to hear new stuff from time to time. Nothing more and nothing less. Looking forward to the season. This isn't a bash Mike opinion either. Stated I believe recruiting has turned around and that we should be going further in the tourney in the next few years.

Not derailing anything. Just stating the obvious that anyone drawing any conclusions on this team based on pickup games is betting on fools gold. I also stated it was good to hear they seemed to be playing together and that the reports are interesting, just that they won't really be that informative. Haven't said anything about not reporting what they are seeing. Any news helps pass the time until the season starts and I like to hear new stuff from time to time. Nothing more and nothing less. Looking forward to the season. This isn't a bash Mike opinion either. Stated I believe recruiting has turned around and that we should be going further in the tourney in the next few years.

The "derailing" comment wasn't directed at you. Sorry, if it appeared that way.

How well pickup games are going, while interesting to hear, provide absolutely no information on how well this team will perform this year. Most pickup games have little to no defense being played and called fouls having no impact. Whether it is basketball we are talking about or even football, you don't know what you have until you start playing other competition. It is easy to play against players that you are familiar with and have become accustomed to their moves and tendencies. Much harder when you play against someone for the first time and have to figure out where they like to shoot, which hand they favor when dribbling, etc. Then throw in refs calling fouls on you that went unchecked in pickup games.

Good to hear that they seem to be playing together well though and I do think we have some talented freshman coming in that will make some noise during their time here. Just may take a year or two of getting used to how the game is played on the D1 level and how the game is officiated vs how they were officiated in high school. Looking forward to the season. I do believe Mike has finally stepped up his recruiting and I also believe the chances for us getting past the first round are going up also.

This time of year, pickup game reports are my favorite thing to read on here. I know the comments don't project into how the season will go, but I like getting people's opinions, little tidbits of information that may or may not prove true. But it gives me an opportunity to know about the players. I will screen most things out, but occasionally a little nugget of info emerges. I'm just beginning to get to know the team next year. Anybody that watches a pickup game, post away. Quench my thirst.

Mighta heard it. Mighta dreamt it. But either way, Big Dan has zoned in at the free throw line and is now regularly hitting 450 or more out of 500 at the charity stripe in extra work put in after weight training sessions.

Supposed to have put on 20 pounds of muscle and increased his athleticism and flexibility from last year as well. Plus, he shoots 300 three pointers a day and has been making around 140 of those.

Oh, by the way, he's grown a couple of inches and is now 7'2 without shoes.

Mighta heard it. Mighta dreamt it. But either way, Big Dan has zoned in at the free throw line and is now regularly hitting 450 or more out of 500 at the charity stripe in extra work put in after weight training sessions.

Supposed to have put on 20 pounds of muscle and increased his athleticism and flexibility from last year as well. Plus, he shoots 300 three pointers a day and has been making around 140 of those.

Oh, by the way, he's grown a couple of inches and is now 7'2 without shoes.

I think I also heard he had gone to 60 lb shoes to protect him from hitting his head on ceiling when jumping.

But at the same time, the players still have to prove up to their recruiting rankings. You can't automatically assume that high 3* or low 4* players are just going to waltz into here and be better than Jabril Durham (who I get was an unheralded JUCO recruit), who was #2 in the SEC assists as a senior and a big reason why Kingsley had the great season that he did, and Anthlon Bell (who I get was a 3* recruit), who was a serious 3-point threat and averaged nearly 16 points/game as a senior. It doesn't matter how much opportunity they had that season -- you still have to be good enough to capitalize at the end of the day.

I'm completely on board with this year's team being better than the 16-16 team. I have no doubt we'll have a better record than that even with a tougher schedule. But I am not convinced that Jalen Harris will be better than Jabril Durham at his ceiling and the same with Isaiah Joe being better than Anthlon Bell at his ceiling. I believe that Joe will prove to be better than Bell, but he does have to prove it. I won't just assume it. I'm less certain on Harris, though.

I would like to think Garland would have a greater impact than Bell did, but we were all very letdown by the great 2011 recruiting class. Rickey Scott was said to be a top 4 defender at his position coming out of high school (Rivals) and led the DFW metro in scoring as a senior. Couldn't buy a bucket at Arkansas. Mardracus Wade was also rated as a top 4 defender in that class. He was a solid defender at Arkansas, but both were major letdowns. Letdowns happen. Garland has shown us nothing. I guess we're at odds here because you don't seem to have the balance of expectation/possibility/probability that I have.

Iíd have to agree that you and I have both probably seen every single minute of every game, press conference, follow recruiting and are thus using the same facts. Youíre less sure of the situation playing out one way than I am.

Mighta heard it. Mighta dreamt it. But either way, Big Dan has zoned in at the free throw line and is now regularly hitting 450 or more out of 500 at the charity stripe in extra work put in after weight training sessions.

Supposed to have put on 20 pounds of muscle and increased his athleticism and flexibility from last year as well. Plus, he shoots 300 three pointers a day and has been making around 140 of those.

Oh, by the way, he's grown a couple of inches and is now 7'2 without shoes.

In all seriousness, his wingspan was measured at 7í4Ē and he touched 12í6Ē on his max vertical reach the other day...