Why "it's a roguelike, it's not meant to be fair" is silly

The previous expansion introduced caltrop traps, the single most annoying *censored* traps to date. They're not fair, either.

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Sure they are. They deal comparable damage to other traps on their respective levels: the only real advantage they have are the eruptors making more of them, and even in that case you can use those defensively very easily (even if you're just luring a monster into it).

Sure they are. They deal comparable damage to other traps on their respective levels: the only real advantage they have are the eruptors making more of them, and even in that case you can use those defensively very easily (even if you're just luring a monster into it).

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I disagree. Rather than a 1x1 trap, if your initial disarm goes wrong you end up with a 3x3 grid, some of which may require a higher skill to disarm than the initial trap itself.

Sure, but you can still lure a monster into the field, use a shove effect, or simply go around most times.

Besides, traps should be dangerous: they're highly visible and completely passive, so their negative effects should be more dangerous than a plain monster.

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I think he has a point, Fax. The problem with caltrop eruptors is that every other trap (other than the wall bolts, but those you can bypass by simply not ignoring the launchers on the walls) is a one-use thing, while this one isn't, and not only can it potentially replicate itself ad nauseam, the caltrops are even more difficult to disarm. Sure, it's not a problem for rogue-ish characters with a lot of trap sense and trap affinity, but people playing as (almost) pure warriors or wizards are going to curse them.
The solution here would be to make caltrops (but not launchers) much more visible than any other trap on the level, effectively making them visible to a much higher percentage of players.

I think he has a point, Fax. The problem with caltrop eruptors is that every other trap (other than the wall bolts, but those you can bypass by simply not ignoring the launchers on the walls) is a one-use thing, while this one isn't, and not only can it potentially replicate itself ad nauseam, the caltrops are even more difficult to disarm. Sure, it's not a problem for rogue-ish characters with a lot of trap sense and trap affinity, but people playing as (almost) pure warriors or wizards are going to curse them.
The solution here would be to make caltrops (but not launchers) much more visible than any other trap on the level, effectively making them visible to a much higher percentage of players.

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The Night of the Recursive Caltrops has come and gone. I hope.

Also general rule seems to be Fax + Recursion = OH NO THE WHOLE FLOOR IS ON FIRE AND COVERED IN CALTROPS

he problem with caltrop eruptors is that every other trap (other than the wall bolts, but those you can bypass by simply not ignoring the launchers on the walls) is a one-use thing, while this one isn't, and not only can it potentially replicate itself ad nauseam, the caltrops are even more difficult to disarm.

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The only one that recursed was the dragonsbreath eruptor, only found rarely on the 14th and 15th floor (in addition to mysterious portals), and that one no longer does so.

Again, there are ways to disarm or neutralize traps without even a single point in . Creative thinking (you know, what got you to the 15th floor to begin with) will let you handle high-level traps without issue.

Personally, I consider having to prepare for extremely dangerous traps to just be part of the game. I think this was true before there were caltrop eruptors (I'd actually consider thaumites more dangerous) and it's true now. It's something to prepare for no matter what character type you're playing.

Personally, ever since they buffed Perception to include lots of free loot, I almost never go without it even if I'm not playing a crafter. And as FaxCelestis said, if you see a trap you can often find a way to safely set it off even if disarming it isn't possible. Usually by summoning a minion, so there's the wizard archetype option. Warriors typically have enough health that they can afford more missteps.

If I were to change caltrop eruptors at all, I'd like it if they either didn't do damage by themselves, or they were at least consistent about the caltrop type they erupt. If I step on a strong caltrop eruptor, seven of those should not be plastic caltrops that my rogue isn't able to safely disarm yet.

I am entirely sure that I don't need to know where or how dungeons of dredmor fits in into the genre to know that I love playing it and spend more times on it than any other game I have. I love the humor, the art, and the pace. I love the gaslamp guys.

The only critique I can give is that I wish they would roll out bugfixes slightly faster.

I've killed the self-spawning of all/any eruptors AND made them spawn fewer traps upon triggering for the next patch. (If someone - Fax? - wants to mod back in self-replicating trap-bombs, feel quite free.)

I've killed the self-spawning of all/any eruptors AND made them spawn fewer traps upon triggering for the next patch. (If someone - Fax? - wants to mod back in self-replicating trap-bombs, feel quite free.)

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I have plenty of evil, evil traps in The Vaults of Maslech, a mod I'm working on.

"Evil" does not cut it for what kinds of traps he has planned. He has created traps far too wretched for any man of any class to behold, let alone to attempt to disarm. He has created nightmares given form, he has combined undeath and unlife in one, he has weaved together the very fabrics of existance just to make a big trap in the form of a majestic middle finger. We asked Cthulhu to beta test it. He needed three months of therapy.

"Evil" does not cut it for what kinds of traps he has planned. He has created traps far too wretched for any man of any class to behold, let alone to attempt to disarm. He has created nightmares given form, he has combined undeath and unlife in one, he has weaved together the very fabrics of existance just to make a big trap in the form of a majestic middle finger. We asked Cthulhu to beta test it. He needed three months of therapy.

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That's why you need Nyarlathotep next time. He's the elder god that most gets off on anthropic cruelty, chaos and sadism. Though he's kind of annoying for a beta tester because he doesn't use anything but Necronomiconomics and Egyptian Magic.