I have the "Pullman Descriptive List of Cars" dated March 1961 and none of the "CENTRAL" class are listed either in service or in Government storage.

Author:

ParlourcarII [ Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:35 pm ]

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Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars

Here is a spreadsheet with a listing of cars that were stored by Pullman from 1957 to 1962. The list is not complete and many dispostions remain unanswered. Information such as AC systems, plan numbers are from 1961 information, and Tom Madden's -Pullman Project can give more information on the cars as built.

Thanks for posting the storage spreadsheet! I already noted some surviving cars which are included, for example, line item #156: 10S-1C-1DR Balsam Fir (Lot #6358, Plan #3973A, 1930), which UP rebuilt to dynamometer/mobile laboratory #210 in 1964.

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Rainier Rails [ Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:21 pm ]

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Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars

I recently received some information on 3 surviving cars which have not yet been discussed in this thread, although the identities remain a mystery at this time:

The Orrville RR Heritage Society of Orrville, OH, is apparently in the process of moving locations, the new location being that of Dabo, Incorporated. There are several cars already at the Dabo site, which are not listed on the ORHS website, and I don't know for certain if these cars are owned by ORHS itself, ORHS members, or other private parties. Specifically, the information listed 3 heavyweight Pullmans, identities unknown, 3 New Haven coaches (also unknown), a New Haven round end observation (is this Watch Hill or Bunker Hill?), a NYC sleeper lounge (the Woodland Stream, without a doubt), and a GN sleeper (unless FEC has stopped using it, this is not the former Oberlin Glacier/Manitoba Club, but a second GN car, which I didn't know about). The Woodland Stream is owned by Glenn Bowman and was formerly stored in Lordstown, OH, but I don't know anything about the other cars.

It should be noted that it apparently has come up elsewhere (where exactly I don't know) that at least some, if not most, of the cars which are already in storage at Dabo might be scrapped if new owners for these cars are not found. Who exactly owns these cars, what their histories are, or the current/future status of this equipment is something I need to research further. Are any forum members familiar with this equipment, the histories, the owners, or what the plans/statuses are? Thanks in advance for any information that can be provided, whether on the forum or via back channels. Feel free to send a PM if necessary for anonymity/security.

_________________Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Author:

Rainier Rails [ Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:57 pm ]

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Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars

The same source which sent the information on the Orrville cars also passed along a link to a thread from October 2004, started by Jason Midyette, who identifies the New Haven observation as the #476 Bunker Hill. Although it is not stated directly in that thread, it appears that the Bunker Hill is owned by John Birmingham/Boulder Scientific:

Jason Midyette wrote:

The car I am working on is ex New Haven 476, the "Bunker Hill", which later became Penn Central 4425. It is in bad shape, but at least it is still a railcar and not a restauraunt! The "Bunker Hill" came out of a storage yard in Rhode Island in 1991 and was moved to Ohio in 1992, with some luck it will move to Colorado (on its own wheels) later this year.

Is it possible that some of the other cars mentioned in the previous post are also owned by John Birmingham? Thanks in advance!

Also sent by the same source, is the fact that there are an unknown number of Strategic Air Command cars at the Nevada State Railroad Museum, and as it has been discussed previously in this thread, SAC converted a number of cars from surplus Pullmans. Do any forum members associated with NSRM have an idea of how many SAC cars, or for that matter, which ones, are part of the collection? While several surviving SAC cars have been mentioned before, so far I have not found any info which would identify these with their original Pullman names. Maybe for their cars, NSRM has looked in the usual places: doors, electrical cabinents, windows, etc. Thanks in advance!

_________________Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

I recently acquired a slide taken on 5/26/1991 by Jay Brown of MRHF #7007 in Cleveland. Of course, MRHF is now the Midwest RY Preservation Society. Are there are any MRPS members on here, or anyone else for that matter, that can confirm that the #7007 is still in the group's collection? If not, was it sold to another party or scrapped?

_________________Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Author:

Rainier Rails [ Sun Sep 06, 2015 3:08 am ]

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Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars

A survivor I overlooked:

399. Burns (Lot #4726, Plan #3523, 1923, 6C-3DR, general service pool)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to GN (1949) and rebuilt to streamlined air brake instruction car #B1 (2nd) (August 1952*) to BN #B1 (1970) retired and sold to Southwest Railroad Car Parts, used as office (1983), resold to Gray Tuttle-Waccamaw Coast Line Railroad (when??), then to Les Kasten (when??), then to Mike Smith (1991), then acquired by Mark Middlesworth-Extravaganza Events & Props Inc. of Charlotte, NC (October 2001), located at "The Depot" in Charlotte, just a few blocks south of the Amtrak station.

403. Colonsay* (August 1914, parlor)--sold to GT as #2560 (1914) to CN #546 and renamed Joseph (March 1924) reconfigured to coach #4953 (1st) (December 1942) transferred to MofW department as #64034 (October 1961) later sold to the Colonist Car Society (when??) resold to the Alberta RY Museum as the #5064 (when??) then resold to a private owner (1993) acquired by the Katie's Crossing restaurant in Ardrossan, AB (2001).

*The Bytown listings state that the name Colonsay can be seen underneath layers of paint. It doesn't say how many layers, or when this name might have been on the car, but seeing as how the rest of the car history is listed, I'm guessing this might have been the car's original name.

411. Canadian Northern colonist sleeper #7213 (May 1919)--sold to CNoR (1919) to CN #2763 (May 1920) rebuilt to combine #7185 (April 1951) sold to the South Simcoe RY as #322 and named Esquesing (1972) now owned by the South Simcoe RY Heritage Corporation in New Tecumseth, ONT (1994?).

_________________Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Author:

Rainier Rails [ Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:11 am ]

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Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars

I recently acquired a copy of the "Private Passenger Car Annual Volume One: 1980", which was compiled by David L. Briggs and published by W. David Randall's RPC Publications. Unlike the RPC Annuals, there were no subsequent additions of the PPC Annual, and despite the information being now 35 years out of date, I have begun processing data from this volume, including several corrections or further info for several cars which have been discussed in this thread, as well as several potential additional survivors worth mentioning, as there's always the chance that forum members will know what has happened to these cars in the last 3 and a half decades. I haven't gone through the entire volume yet, so there will be several additional posts.

Feather River RR Society (Western Pacific RR Museum) has "Clover Plot". Built 1920 as the 12-1 "Rampur", plan 2410F. Air conditioning was applied in 1937. In 1940, the interior floor plan was changed to to 8 open sections - 5 double bedrooms...[section removed]...to the W.P. in 1948...[s.r.]...Withdrawn from...[s.r.]...lease in 1962. Sold to private owner (Tom Phair) in early-mid(?) 1960s...[s.r.]...Stored serviceable...[s.r.]...on the Sierra Railway, it was later utterly neglected by the caretaker paid to look after the car, and suffered serious interior water damage from a decaying roof and broken windows. Tom Phair donated the car to Golden Gate RR Museum in 1980s...[s.r.]...GGRM donated the car to FRRS/WPRM 5 years ago as partial payment for assistance with the Big Move to Niles Canyon Railway...[s.r.]...

We have two heavyweight sleepers in Spencer. The first is the 12-1 "McChesney". It was built in 1926, Lot No. 4845, Plan 3410. It was purchased by the Southern in 1948 and became their #2480...[s.r.]...

Briggs lists that the McChesney was formerly owned by the Atlanta Chapter NRHS, but does not list when it was acquired from or donated by SOU. The McChesney was withheld from lease in 1965, so this would be the likely year that the car left SOU property. Does anyone know when the car went to NCTM? Thanks in advance!

The former New Haven RR Pullman Murray Hill is alive and well in Tulsa Oklahoma...[s.r.]...The car ended up on the Tulsa Sapulpa Union Ry in Sapulpa OK, just South of Tulsa and was used as a Biz car. It later became a part of the defunct Sunbelt NRHS. After sitting around rotting away for a few years a local service group, SERTOMA (Service To Mankind) had some volunteers restore the car so that it can be displayed at the Route 66 Historical Site being built along Route 66 in West Tulsa...[s.r.]...

Briggs lists that the Murray Hill was rebuilt (withdrawn from lease 1955) by the New Haven to business car #4, and that it was later (when??) sold to George R. Silcott as #4, then resold (when??) to John E. Thompson as #4, then (when??) back to George Silcott (still #4), then (when??) resold to the Tulsa-Sapulpa Union Railway as #4.

_________________Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Author:

Brian Norden [ Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:17 am ]

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Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars

Rainier Rails wrote:

Briggs makes no mention of the Railcruise Company, and lists that the Dover Patrol was owned by Great Western Tours as #110 before going to the Sierra Railway as #10.

Great Western Tours was based in San Francisco and one of the principals was Dick Reynolds. Reyonds was associated wtih the San Francisco railfan groups and I think he had once worked in one of the railroad ticket offices. Pre=Amtrak Great Western Tours operated railroad based excursions in the western U.S. and into Mexico.

Then during the 1970s when the Crocker family got involved once again with the active management of the Sierra and steam excursions were operated, Great Western was running the dinner and other party trains. This is why a number of Great Western cars ended up stored at Jamestown on the Sierra.

When the White Pine Historical Railroad Foundation took over the southern portion of the Nevada Northern, Dick Reynolds was the first general manager.

...[s.r.]...Attached please find current photographs of car #146 outside of New Orleans, La in January 2014.

Briggs lists that the Glacier was owned by the Atlanta Chapter NRHS, with no date given for the acquisition from SOU, but the car was withdrawn from lease in 1965, so this is the likely date. Does anyone know when the Glacier went to LASTA? Thanks in advance!

Car was never owned by DJR,was on trackage prior to DJR's unconventional assumption of operations.

The Central Plateau became Belt Railway of Chicago safety instruction car #1891, and Briggs lists that it was sold (when??) to Don Heimberger, then resold (when??) to Ted Lemen, and then was acquired (when??) by a Ms. J. Howe of Lincoln, IL.

Briggs lists that the #2800 was rebuilt in 1959 to LIRR coach #7500, with 54 seats, that the car was acquired (when??) by the Sunrise Trail Chapter NRHS, with the name Sunrise Trail applied (although this might have been just to state the car's ownership), and leased to the Black River & Western. Does anyone know how long the car was leased to BR&W, or when it went to the New Hope & Ivyland? Thanks in advance!

Briggs lists that the WSS&YP was owned or operated by the Montana Central Railroad & Recreation Company, and that the WSS&YP had 2 NP coaches, with neither of the car numbers listed. Does anyone know the number of this 2nd mystery car, or if it is still extant? Thanks in advance!

Thought a few members might like to see recent photographs of the Monte Rosa

After the car was withdrawn from lease in November 1949, CofG modified the Monte Rosa to an instruction car and renamed it Progress. Briggs lists that it was later (when??) sold or donated to the Atlanta Chapter NRHS. Does anyone know when the car went to the Atlanta Chapter, or when it was sold to Robert Snow? Thanks in advance!

Under Reynolds' ownership, this car was still #105, with the name Argonaut applied, and like several other cars owned by Reynolds, was stored on the Sierra RY. It is still owned by Napa Valley, and the name Argonaut is still on the car.

Briggs lists that WP #103 was rebuilt from a Pullman sleeper named Glen Eyre, but not a 6-3 car built in 1925. Rather, the #103 was rebuilt from the Glen Eyre (1st), which was built in 1898 to Plan #1379B. Briggs does not list the Lot #, the configuration, what the history of the car was before it was rebuilt to a business car, or when this rebuild took place. Does anyone have more info on this car, either as owned by Pullman or WP? Thanks in advance!

As this thread has continued to identify surviving cars, I have noticed that there were several cars that had been acquired by two different private owners: Jack Ferris and Reuben Darby. Many of these cars had remained in Pullman ownership and pool service after the 12/31/1948 divestiture. However, at this time, a few of the cars acquired by either owner have yet to surface as being extant. Does anyone know the whereabouts of these cars?

Below are listed all the cars I have noted as acquired by either owner

Briggs lists that the Fir Park was acquired (when??) by the Strasburg and resold (when??) to an unknown party. Does anyone know who acquired this car from Strasburg, or if it is still extant? Thanks in advance!

_________________Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Author:

BigBoy 4023 [ Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:46 am ]

Post subject:

Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars

What became of the Pullman car Cromwell that SP&S 700 pulled as crew car in the early 1990's? I know the old NP baggage car survived for a while. But the Cromwell I have never found any information on it's current status?