Hammam Bouquet Extract

I am working on a project to recreate a version of vintage Hammam Bouquet Extract with an undisclosed perfumer. I was wondering if anyone had ever tried the old extract version of Hammam Bouquet and could comment on their experience. I plan to use high quality and natural ingredients where available.

Re: Hammam Bouquet Extract

That's not my bottle (wish it were). As far as I know it's the only known picture of the stuff. I'd suspect it is from the 1960s when Penhaligons only had a few employees even though it is still a very small company.

Re: Hammam Bouquet Extract

oh, this is a juicy one. what is your hope with this, in terms of getting more from the current HB?

also, I sort of half wonder if the use of the word "extract" here is just nomenclature; is it just a different way of saying a floral distillation, and a word that was trimmed from subsequent labelling? as we use the terms today, extract and eau de toilet (sp) are two different things from a chemistry perspective, I thought.

whatever the case may be, as a Hammam fan, I'm curious to know what becomes of your project.

Re: Hammam Bouquet Extract

My goals with this project are to recreate Hammam Bouquet as close as possible to what it would have been like in the 19th Century. Over the years, the formula has been changed and frankly cheapened. Of course, certain materials are not available anymore, but I will do my best to get as close as possible. The current HB is good, but it doesn't have enough good quality rose ottos and is chock full of strident synthetics I wish to modify. I've read some snippets of conversions about vintage HB. It's a lt of hearsay, but a couple members (no longer active) had mentioned that the vintage was more animalic and had top notch rose ottos.

Re: Hammam Bouquet Extract

Originally Posted by the_good_life

That's the spirit! Vive la Résistance!

I agree!

Originally Posted by bokaba

My goals with this project are to recreate Hammam Bouquet as close as possible to what it would have been like in the 19th Century. Over the years, the formula has been changed and frankly cheapened. Of course, certain materials are not available anymore, but I will do my best to get as close as possible. The current HB is good, but it doesn't have enough good quality rose ottos and is chock full of strident synthetics I wish to modify. I've read some snippets of conversions about vintage HB. It's a lt of hearsay, but a couple members (no longer active) had mentioned that the vintage was more animalic and had top notch rose ottos.

Re: Hammam Bouquet Extract

The main obstacle I believe is not ever having smelled the vintage version. I am relying on my research on Victorian and Edwardian period perfumery and ingredients and less than thorough second hand accounts from people who knew someone who smelled it. The other challenge is that some of the ingredients are either not available or ethical for use today (I don't personally have a problem with animal ingredients, but a lot of perfumers and firms do). I also don't want to produce a scent costing $1,000/oz because that wouldn't be any fun and I couldn't afford it myself--what a blunder to design a perfume and then not be able to afford it! We will have to compromise on some ingredients, but that is the nature of the beast.

Re: Hammam Bouquet Extract

Originally Posted by bokaba

The main obstacle I believe is not ever having smelled the vintage version. I am relying on my research on Victorian and Edwardian period perfumery and ingredients and less than thorough second hand accounts from people who knew someone who smelled it. The other challenge is that some of the ingredients are either not available or ethical for use today (I don't personally have a problem with animal ingredients, but a lot of perfumers and firms do). I also don't want to produce a scent costing $1,000/oz because that wouldn't be any fun and I couldn't afford it myself--what a blunder to design a perfume and then not be able to afford it! We will have to compromise on some ingredients, but that is the nature of the beast.

Not having smelled it is not an obstacle IMO. If anything, it could be a blessing as you are not biased or swayed to re-creating it the way the Penhaligon's perfumers decided to create it.

Re: Hammam Bouquet Extract

Originally Posted by bokaba

The main obstacle I believe is not ever having smelled the vintage version. I am relying on my research on Victorian and Edwardian period perfumery and ingredients and less than thorough second hand accounts from people who knew someone who smelled it. The other challenge is that some of the ingredients are either not available or ethical for use today (I don't personally have a problem with animal ingredients, but a lot of perfumers and firms do). I also don't want to produce a scent costing $1,000/oz because that wouldn't be any fun and I couldn't afford it myself--what a blunder to design a perfume and then not be able to afford it! We will have to compromise on some ingredients, but that is the nature of the beast.

Are your sources strictly English? Or do you mean Victorian and Edwardian time frame?

There is a lot of research on French perfumery from the 19th century. I started with "The Foul and the Fragrant," which examines the history of French perfumery.

"The sunset is deeper and longer. The scent of the jasmine is stronger." Miracles. Pet Shop Boys

"Thick dome of jasmine
(Under the dense canopy where the white jasmine),
Blends with the rose,
(That blends with the rose),"
"The Flower Duet," Lakme by Leo Delibes, 1881

Re: Hammam Bouquet Extract

I am researching mainly the Victorian-Edwardian time frame with an emphasis on English chemists (Dukes of Pall Mall, DR Harris, Floris, Penhaligons, etc) during that time period. I'm reading Scents of Yesterday which examines recipes, ingredients, techniques, and tastes in British, French, and German perfumery during the 18th-early 20th C.

Re: Hammam Bouquet Extract

You might also wish to read "Manuel des Dames," by Madame Elizabeth Celnart, published in 1833. It is in French and contains recipes for homemade fragrances, as well as homemade toiletries. Read the section, "Parfums pour la toilette." As you know, scents in this era were unisex.

Here is a link to the 1827 edition, the same year, I might add, that a certain dandy was married.