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what difference does it make if someone likes you for your big bank account or your big, um, heart, because you make someone laugh or because you are a good listener or because you are drop dead gorgeous?

Well, one difference that immediately comes to mind is that once you hook up with someone with self-inflicted financial problems, they become your self-inflicted financial problems*

At one point a friend of mine decided that "two can live as cheaply as one", that there are economies of scale to be realized, and all that stuff. 4 years, 1 divorce and hundreds of thousands of dollars later, he is still trying to figure out where he went wrong*

The other problem with dating people who "like you for your big bank account" is that it distorts the relationship in many subtle and not so subtle ways. For example, the young female that I mentioned in my first post in this thread did her best to convince me that we had many interests in common. And we probably did have some shared interests, but how could I be sure what part was real and what part was fake when she was pushing it so hard?*

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and if someone wants to pick just two of my qualities to hook up with me, i would not be too upset if one was my big checkbook and the other my big, um, heart.

Also, if someone only wants you for your bank account, and nothing else, there's going to be no love there. You might love them, and devote alot of emotion and feeling to them, but you won't get it back. And the second you come to your senses and stop playing sugar daddy/sugar mommy, or if something better comes along, they'll drop you like a hot rock.

Now that's not to say that your impressive bank account can't be part of a well-rounded package. But in the end, they have to love you for YOU, not just your money and your ability to spoil them. Otherwise, you'll end up feeling unfulfilled and used in that type of relationship. At least I know I would.

If you are "cheap" (I mean, er, LBYM or frugal or something) in real everyday life, then don't change your personality for dating and seeking relationships. I'm not saying don't spend a dime on dates. Just keep it real.

If you like spending your leisure time taking (free) strolls in the park and watching black/white (free romantic) movies on your 27" tv at home and an exciting evening is watching your favorite sports team (on your 27" tv at home) play their rivals and knocking back a couple of domestic (cheap) brews, then your potential mate should figure this out pretty quick.

Taking a lady out to the best 4 star restaurant in town and hiring a private harpist to serenade her on your back deck as you whisper sweet nothings in her ear would mislead her as to how you typically spend your money. Assuming the relationship works, the problem will arise a few years down the road when you inform your mate that you really don't like spending all that money on valueless pursuits and that the mexican joint around the corner suits your tastebuds just as well as the unpronounceable french cuisine on the 4 star restaurant's menu.

Bottom line - if she knows you're a cheapskate when she dates you and she is ok with it, she won't have a problem living the cheapskate life in the long term. If she grows to expect white glove treatment from you while dating, you can't marry her and expect her to expect anything less than what she has grown accustomed to. You can have a romantic and/or good time with a date without spending a ton of money. It's the thought that counts, except when it comes to flowers. Then it's the flowers that count.

my entire package buddy and i were a little nutz and so we used to pick some new friends off the seawall. no joke. most of these people were without money and were just hanging out, dreaming of being on a yacht one day. well, we made their dreams come true and some of those people became good friends of ours.

my brother married a person who had no money and whose family had none either. plus she was a spender. to protect family wealth, my scared-for-him, practical-for-us parents insisted that for my brother to stay in the family business he had to have a prenup with her. over the years i have watched as she turned into a financially responsible, lovely person, who deeply loves my brother, does a great job with their kids and has been a wonderful dil to my long-dieing, alzheimer's-ridden mom. but then, i suppose, it's not every gold digger who will change your mother's diaper and clean her breasts. hey, gold digger doesn't sound so complimentary now, does it?

if i was of scientific mind, doing a documentary for pbs on the mating rituals of str8 people, i certainly would feature the female's nesting abilities. my chauvinistic point being, she might not just be a gold digger, she might be securing a secure future for her future kids, or even for herself, as if that were a terrible thing.

something is going to attract, on first sight, someone to you. it might be your karma or aura if you want to count on that, it might be your smile, it might be how you carry yourself.

here's an experiement you can try now that you're retired and have the time. hit the gym for a year, get yerself buff, hop in a ferrari you've leased for the night and drive up to a gaggle of women hanging outside of some nightclub and see how many you attract.

ok, now take a year and stuff your face and put on 50 lbs. don't shower or shave for a week, walk to a bar and see which chic is attracted to the inner you.

i'm not suggesting you have to play sugar daddy/mommy to anyone. i'm simply showing first how initial attraction does not necessarily become the core of a relationship, but, more importantly, i'm hoping to bring to light how we use all sorts of excuses to isolate ourselves from perceived dangers in the world. what a shame to let your fortune keep you from enjoying someone who seeks on first sight the very quality you've spent a lifetime achieving.

there's an old saying: putting your guard up will keep you safe, but letting your guard down will get you laid.

__________________"off with their heads"~~dr. joseph-ignace guillotin

"life should begin with age and its privileges and accumulations, and end with youth and its capacity to splendidly enjoy such advantages."~~mark twain - letter to edward kimmitt 1901

well heck, to get laid often the only investment you have to put forth there is maybe a couple years, a Dodge with a big enough back seat, and then a trip to the free clinic when the condom breaks, or the beer impaired your judgement.

my brother married a person who had no money and whose family had none either. plus she was a spender. to protect family wealth, my scared-for-him, practical-for-us parents insisted that for my brother to stay in the family business he had to have a prenup with her. over the years i have watched as she turned into a financially responsible, lovely person, who deeply loves my brother

Sure, people can change for the better, but I wonder what percentage of big spenders become frugal once they get married? From everything I have seen myself and read on this board, that's not the way to bet. Glad it worked out for your brother, though, he is one lucky husband! *

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there's an old saying: putting your guard up will keep you safe, but letting your guard down will get you laid.

That would have been a concern when I was half my current age * These days I look primarily for companionship, compatibility and all that other stuff, although good sex wouldn't hurt either if it came as part of the package. But hey, you drive a covertible and I drive a sedan, which is probably all you need to know about our diverging approaches to life

Sure, people can change for the better, but I wonder what percentage of big spenders become frugal once they get married? From everything I have seen myself and read on this board, that's not the way to bet. Glad it worked out for your brother, though, he is one lucky husband! *

That would have been a concern when I was half my current age * These days I look primarily for companionship, compatibility and all that other stuff, although good sex wouldn't hurt either if it came as part of the package. But hey, you drive a covertible and I drive a sedan, which is probably all you need to know about our diverging approaches to life*

relax, it wasn't an all out call for viagra. it was just a metaphor.

i don't think it was so much a matter of change. i think it was a matter of the person becoming comfortable with a situation. sometimes stress & who knows what psychological factors make a person want to shop when all they really need is a hug.

as to people who intentionally try to come off as something they are not--and i've had my share of experience with those--well, i think justin nailed that one pretty quickly: "just keep it real."

ps. as to the vertible, i simply love the wind. nothing more.

__________________"off with their heads"~~dr. joseph-ignace guillotin

"life should begin with age and its privileges and accumulations, and end with youth and its capacity to splendidly enjoy such advantages."~~mark twain - letter to edward kimmitt 1901

Hehe, no offense taken and no offense meant* Besides, at 40, I don't have to worry about Viagra yet* Different people assign different values to different things in life and strike the balance between "safety and pleasure" differently. You wouldn't want my sedan and I wouldn't want your convertible. That wind would get me a sore throat in no time flat and just think of the extra insurance costs!* 8)

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i don't think it was so much a matter of change. i think it was a matter of the person becoming comfortable with a situation. sometimes stress & who knows what psychological factors make a person want to shop when all they really need is a hug.

Hm, that's an interesting point. I wonder if anybody else has seen this phenomenon? Is it possible to tell ahead of time whether a particular shopaholic is curable?

I recall talking to a lot of "millionaires in three years" ca. 1998-1999

I think my brother was one of those "millionaires in three years" at age 21. He was going to retire at age 24. To quote him: "Anyone who accepts less than 16% on any investment is an idiot. You can easily get 16% risk free." circa 1999 (Yes, he's still working, doing construction instead of tech work, at age 28 - no investments to mention last I talked to him).

Back around late 1998/early 1999, I'll admit I got a bit delusional, too. I finally made my last payment to CCCS in November of 1998, which once and for all got me out from under the burden of my failed marriage. I had a part time job delivering pizzas where after taxes I was often bringing in more than I did at my full time job. And my accounts with American Century and Janus were, in that brief amount of time averaging about 40%. Now logically I knew that wouldn't last, but I kept thinking that, in theory, it could. Or if not 40%, easily 15-20% or more.

I remember jokingly telling my mother that I was going to retire in 2009. I figured I could have well over $1Million by then. She got a bit miffed, telling me I'd better not because that was when SHE planned on retiring! And who was going to take care of her in her old age?

I also naively thought that real estate prices would stay down, and my plan was, in 2004 when I was 34, to buy one of these local houses that in 1998/99 could probably be had for $125-140K and sell my condo.

Well, once I hit 30, in 2000, I got fed up with working the part time job delivering pizzas, and valued my free time much more, so I quit. There went that nice extra income. Then came the tech bubble burst, and other markets followed it. Then came 9/11 and the ensuing recession. Meanwhile, housing prices shot up, and one of those $125-140K houses that I thought I'd buy when I was 34 were probably closer to $250K, and possibly more like $300K+ today.

So here I am, in the middle of 2006. 2009 will be here in 2 1/2 years. Will I retire then? Most likely not. But on the plus side, I'm 1/3 owner in a house that's probably worth about $600K, was able to sell my condo and bank a pretty nice profit, and my only real debt is about $86K on an HELOC that I'm paying down prematurely. And I figure I could still retire when I'm 45, in 2015. So while the future didn't work out the way my delusional mind thought it would, I do still have a lot to be thankful for.

PRECIOUS METAL Excavators... Gold Diggers come in both sexes. FI negates need for togetherness but does not mean a partner would not be a nice addition. Challenge is to find a compatable one who is also FI minded... I did not "LBYM" and accumulate to finance anothers retirement and offspring. :

Ya, well they don't have to be potential lovers to be blood suckers either .... relatives and friends can be a big problem if you know what I mean. It seems that the only ones that understand you are the ones who lived like you did and have the same or more. Just because you have investments doesn't mean your a bank. :P

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