And Rudius Hagrid(RH) and I(A) couldn't help ourselves … we dove in in true potter-fashion and had a discussion. Care to join us?

Here is what we said (this is taken directly from our chat, so excuse any fast typing, acronyms or typos)

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A: did you see the trailer? (happy)RH: oh. my. goodness. So we actually have to wait that long for the movie? A: (giggle) “time flies fast when you’re having fun"RH: And jude law looks like hes going to be a excellent dumbledoreA: (nod)and what’s with that torn up postcard reassembling? … and Dumbledore telling Newt he has to take care of Grindelwald? RH: Beause he cant face him directly? … yeahA: because of their love, or because of something else? … looks like we’ll learn about why Newt got expelled (and we just talking about that)RH: surely not, their love - after all by this point grindelwald has gone seriously to the dark sideA: that’s what I thought … Nice that they add a twist in before Dumbledore has to step in afterall (as we know he does – or at least think he does)RH: does make it look like Dumbledore has a m.o. of using someone else as his cats pawA: which sets up his relationship with Harry and Snape (or rather reinforces it in hindsight)RH: and quietly figuring out the opponents weakness and taking him down in the endA: will be interesting to see how Paris factors into this all … maybe in some reference to the great war and what is happening/happened thereRH: I'm wondering if Tina is short for Porpentia or if theres another love interest comingA: could be … we know that JKR likes to play around with names hiding things in plain sight … and is that the DADA classroom where they talk to Dumbledore? if so did he teach DADA at some point?RH: no he taught transfigurationA: that’s what I thought – but it’s interesting that they use that setRH: each teacher imprints his or her own style on their class room … looks like Dumbledore likes geometric puzzlesA: quite true … yet this classroom retains its still across many teachersRH: didn't slughorn teach potions somewhere out of the dungeonsA: no, he requested an office outside the dungeons, but taught down thereRH: i wish my books weren't in storage … so the same classroom hmmmm … well; I'm sure classrooms can move if the teachers so desire. There are plenty of empty ones and only so many subjectsA: seems only to be in the film that he requests a different office (Just checked the book) … quite true … but I find it interesting that they chose one that we will immediately recogniseRH: wait wait - Firenze taught on the ground floor, so it depends on the teacher where they teach. Slughorn probably decided that he wasn't going to bother to move the class as he wasn't staying longA: or because all the potions gear is already thereRH: yeah itd be too much of a schlepA: it seemed everyone expected the divination teacher to take over Trelawneys quartersRH: he doesn't strike me as the kind that would want the fuss of moving things aroundA: so that does give the impression that they have their set rooms for certain subjjects (if not all): Herbology – obviously greenhouses … Astronomy – obvious tower … so why not also for DADA, transfiguration, Charms, etc. Seeing a lot is practical tuition it would make sense that they have rooms that support what is being taught. When F&G set off the swamp, isn’t there a comment that it is near the Charms corridor or some such?RH: I think unless there is a specific requirement in the classroom space it wouldn't matter … that could simply be because Flitwick has taught for so long that classroom has always been the way to charms as far as the current students are concernedA: could be … question is if their teachers offices adjoin their classrooms etc. … yep it couldRH: no it sounds like offices are in a different part of the castleA: but then if a new teacher were to come in, it’d would be likely that (s)he were to continue in the same room(s) as they have been setup, they learnt there, they are free …RH: yes, unless they didn't like the space for some reasonA: yup … not sure … where was Snape’s office on the Marauder’s Map again (pyama party scene) – somewhere at the bottom of the map, which would allude to the dungeonsRH: mcgonnagall may not have appreciated students staring out of the windows in her classA: Snape just bangs the shutter shut there RH: i kind of get the impression its down stairs but the prefects toilet is on the 7th floor right?A: dunno if there might be more than one. Chances are there is a prefect bathroom for the Gryff & Raven near the towers (upper floors) and one further down for Huff & SlythRH: and snape got up to the staircase where harry was trapped with the egg in gof quite quicklyA: well he’s a bat … what do you expect? :pRH: cedric gav harry the password tot he one he usesA: Ah true! Guess they don’t mind run stairs all the timeRH: good exerciseA: yupRH: i bet Hogwarts students were fitter than other schoolsA: no wonder they don’t have much sports lessons … definitelyRH: their sport was high speed stairclimbing … nevermind quidditchA: yup … and dodging PeevesRH: high speed OBSTACLE stair climbingA: yep, jump that step, dodge the chalk thrown at you … tickle the right doorknob … oh and not to forget being charged by a knight on a ponyRH: to be fair its a fat pony and the knight isn't a good rider. I wonder whats with the elder sign at the end; is it in the movie or something they made for the titlesA: which spurns the kids on to not be left behind … elder sign?RH: the stone wand and cloakA: you mean the smoke hinting at the three hallows sign? (at ca. 1.45)RH: yeahA: well we’re in the middle of the time where Dumbledore was interested in the hallows …it might allude to that. Maybe Newt even gets involved in some wayRH: it also made me think a little of the dark mark in the skyA: didn’t Grindelwald carve that on the walls of Durmstrang too?RH: yesA: Krum said something that he used it as his symbol (felt similar to the dark mark)RH: .... what wand did Dumbledore have in the trailer...?A: do we see his wand at all? It would have to be pre-Grindelwald fight, so not yet the elderwandRH: oh, oh, cast photo:A: I recognise that wandRH: look who has the elder wandA: and nice german feel to the clothesRH: that's the elder wandA: yep … who’s hand is that next to it?RH: the movie logo has the shapes of the hallows in it and they’re highlighted by being kinda scratched. Maybe newt has to look for the hallowsA: yes, it feels like he gets involved. Maybe that’s where Paris comes into play?RH: and Dumbledore cant be seen to be actively looking for the hallows because... because at this point his friendship with grindelwald is still rememberedA: could workRH: and the ministry doesn't entirely trust himA: Hmmm … wasn’t Flamel French? Maybe we’ll be visiting him along the way … did they ever? :pRH: maybe that's the guy next to newt that does that spell on the ground around a building it would seemA: it looks like a graveyard with a church in the backgorund? We only know where one Peverell Brother is buried. This might be the gravesite of anotherRH: may be … now i need to watch fantastic beasts a gain and see what wand undercover grindelwald was using. Maybe the race is to stop him getting the elder wand. That's the only one - i think - that didn't travel down family linesA: hmmm … but that was from Gregorovitch … I thought he wasn’t in France but someone eastern Europe … yep, from murderer to duel winner etc.RH: they may not have known that yetA: well, they’d start at the last known place/owner of the wand, which could pinpoint ParisRH: hmm the cloak travelled down the potter familyA: unless the wand is already in Grindelwalds hands, in which case they are hunting the (not knowing that the Gaunt family has it)RH: the stone was.... in the gaunt familys posessionA: but nobody knew that … only when Dumbledore sees it does he recognise itRH: yeahA: so they could be following leads on that. Though that would make for an odd plotline, as it can’t lead anywhere, seeing that knowledge is uncovered many decades laterRH: Oh: Katherine Waterston as Porpentina “Tina” Goldstein; Eddie Redmayne as Newt Scamander. There is my answerA: that’s at least one thing we could solve (giggle)RH: maybe the plot is more about these two: <image of cadence with woman>A: I think it will follow several linesRH:cant be too divergentA: well there a few things to tie up in New York … and then move on to ParisRH: Maybe its to do with Grindelwald needing a magical person to lose control and blow the secret wide open of magic being real. Which is why he was after Prudence in the first movie, and Maledictus who has some kind of curseA: in New York?RH: well if newt wasn't able to obliviate the whole city he, Grindelwald would have succeededA: to me it felt like he was after the force (what was it called again?) rather than what he might have caused (drat I don’t know names nor anything anymore … really have to rewatch)RH: occulus?A: the energetic form he releases that distroys all in its wakeRH: i think its called an occulus

« Last Edit: September 27, 2018, 08:45:31 AM by atschpe »

"Of course it is all in your head, but why on Earth should that mean it isn't real?" ~Dumbledore (DH)

I started salivating when I saw the trailer was out. I admit I am not following what all is happening with the FBAWTFT movies, but nevertheless I am psyched to see the new movie. I agree that JKR seems to be setting the background of DD being very Machiavellian in that he seems to set people up to do things he feels need done, but he won't do himself. She hinted at this with Aberforth telling the Trio in book 7 that "people had a way of getting hurt while he was carrying out his grand plans." "I knew my brother, Potter. He learned secrecy at our mother's knee. Secrets and lies, that's how we grew up and Albus ... he was natural." It surely means that DD had done this sort of thing all his life. Why? Perhaps we will get more questions than answers with this new movie?

First some details from the books:Snape and Slughorn taught potions in the same dungeon classroom (hence the HBP potion book was there for Harry to find) but Snape kept his office in the dungeons despite teaching floors above (though it was probably still convenient for the Slytherin Common room as he was still Head of House).I think there are several bathrooms including Moaning Myrtle's but Cedric implies the Prefects' one on the fifth floor is their only one.

As to Dumbledore sending Newt to Paris instead of going himself, I am wondering at what stage Dumbledore joined the Wizengamot or the International Confederation of Wizards because that might make him wary of doing something of questionable legality which might cause an international incident or damage his position on those bodies which might harm his ability to influence policy in the right direction. It strikes me that there are rather a lot of (I am guessing) Aurors turning up to ask Dumbledore a simple question, so I suspect that the Ministry is either pro-Grindelwald, perhaps influenced by the pure-blood families like the Rosiers that later supplied Voldemort's Death Eaters, or perhaps more likely simply don't want to get involved. I looked up the Minister for Magic at the time on Pottermore - it was Hector Fawley (1925 - 1939) who lost his job because he didn't take the threat of Grindelwald seriously.I was also wondering about the device in the background when Dumbledore is being questioned, as it looks more like a telescope to me than a dark arts detector.

I started salivating when I saw the trailer was out. I admit I am not following what all is happening with the FBAWTFT movies, but nevertheless I am psyched to see the new movie. I agree that JKR seems to be setting the background of DD being very Machiavellian in that he seems to set people up to do things he feels need done, but he won't do himself. She hinted at this with Aberforth telling the Trio in book 7 that "people had a way of getting hurt while he was carrying out his grand plans." "I knew my brother, Potter. He learned secrecy at our mother's knee. Secrets and lies, that's how we grew up and Albus ... he was natural." It surely means that DD had done this sort of thing all his life. Why? Perhaps we will get more questions than answers with this new movie?

I hadn't thought of Aberforth words here, but it does make sense to consider this in the context with the experience he alludes to. Of course you have to wonder what drives Aberforth to think and say this. Is his observation objective or subjective – was Dumbledore like this to all and with or without reason? With Harry's storyline we get a sense that Dumbledore understood Harry to be the only one to truly be able to solve the Voldemort-crisis. But did he always have that overview or did his emotions or similar sometimes have him take this route when other options were available?

First some details from the books:Snape and Slughorn taught potions in the same dungeon classroom (hence the HBP potion book was there for Harry to find) but Snape kept his office in the dungeons despite teaching floors above (though it was probably still convenient for the Slytherin Common room as he was still Head of House).I think there are several bathrooms including Moaning Myrtle's but Cedric implies the Prefects' one on the fifth floor is their only one.

Thanks for offering those details. We weren't sure anymore and couldn't get a hold of all the details as we were deep in discussion. I guess I should reopen my think-tank on whether there is any meaning to the use of that set then.

As to Dumbledore sending Newt to Paris instead of going himself, I am wondering at what stage Dumbledore joined the Wizengamot or the International Confederation of Wizards because that might make him wary of doing something of questionable legality which might cause an international incident or damage his position on those bodies which might harm his ability to influence policy in the right direction. It strikes me that there are rather a lot of (I am guessing) Aurors turning up to ask Dumbledore a simple question, so I suspect that the Ministry is either pro-Grindelwald, perhaps influenced by the pure-blood families like the Rosiers that later supplied Voldemort's Death Eaters, or perhaps more likely simply don't want to get involved. I looked up the Minister for Magic at the time on Pottermore - it was Hector Fawley (1925 - 1939) who lost his job because he didn't take the threat of Grindelwald seriously.I was also wondering about the device in the background when Dumbledore is being questioned, as it looks more like a telescope to me than a dark arts detector.

Hmm, one could also ask whether with all his duties, Dumbledore did not have the flexibility to go to Paris himself. But yes, he seems to be facing opposition, as we see him being questioned.

Interesting that the Minister of the time parallels Fudge. And yes I would agree that the ministry then (as in Harry's time) was being influenced by those striving for purification of some sort or other. Such a strong parallel to the real/muggle world!

"Of course it is all in your head, but why on Earth should that mean it isn't real?" ~Dumbledore (DH)

The countdown is ticking and we have some more trailer releases. What do you think?Time to get our thinking caps on (careful, Fred and George left some headless hats lying around!) and see what trails of smoke can be found if we look together carefully:

So … Any first impressions? Are you counting weeks, days, hours or even minutes by now?So how do you think the new insight about Nagini fits into the whole?What role do you think Credence will play?What other juicy details did you discover?

And as Dumbledore says about Newt approach to life: "are these [trailers] right?"

"Of course it is all in your head, but why on Earth should that mean it isn't real?" ~Dumbledore (DH)

... I agree that JKR seems to be setting the background of DD being very Machiavellian in that he seems to set people up to do things he feels need done, but he won't do himself.

I have always maintained that Dumbledore is very much Machiavellian, and I say that as someone who has both studied and taught The Prince many times. Dumbledore will do what is necessary to accomplish what needs to be accomplished, not so much for the sake of personal power (as Machiavelli is often erroreously accused of exclusively advocating) but for the sake of social an political stability. It is rather like that scene shown in The Darkest Hour in which people seemed to be shocked that Churchill would willingly sacrifice the lives of a several thousand men at Calais in an effort to save three hundred thousand at Dunkirk. That is what commanders do when the alternative is to sacrifice them all.It is easy to assume that people in that position are merely protecting themselves and using others to do what they are unwilling to do, but remember that at the point where it was necessary to save Malfoy from becoming a murderer, Dumbledore willingly laid down his own life.

Wordsaremagic, I really like how you formulated your thoughts on Dumbledore's "Machiavellian" approach. Indeed it is easy to just see him as delegating and having others do the work. Something his brother was good in pointing out. Yet the short glimpses of the mirror of Erised shows that there is an emotional reasoning alongside a deep understanding of the people involved. I wonder even if he has learnt to use the miror in someway (similar to the pensieve) to not only dissect his emotions but a wider aspect of goings on. Would be interesting to see him use the mirror in a new way.

Speaking of Dumbledore and his character and approach, I wanted to bring another thought up. Some here might remember Fw00per, who a few days ago mused if we are about to learn how Fawkes came to adopt Dumbledore. Could Newt have initiated this bond in someway? Maybe he asked Dumbledore to look after the phoenix for a while and they bonded?ETA:Just saw some more information about the Nagini-reveal, which I'll share here:

Quote from: @jk_rowling on twitter

The Naga are snake-like mythical creatures of Indonesian mythology, hence the name ‘Nagini.’ They are sometimes depicted as winged, sometimes as half-human, half-snake. Indonesia comprises a few hundred ethnic groups, including Javanese, Chinese and Betawi. Have a lovely day

« Last Edit: September 27, 2018, 01:37:02 PM by atschpe »

"Of course it is all in your head, but why on Earth should that mean it isn't real?" ~Dumbledore (DH)