The man who invents the casual spectator catheter will never want for nothing.

In my college days at tOSU I often tinkered with the idea of using a camel back as a mobile pissing apparatus. Never put it into practice. Back in 2003 I was at the night game where we won on a missed Purdue FG in OT, and at one point when shit was really tight my buddy said fuck it, and pissed his pants. The same guy repeated this in 2008 when the Browns beat the Giants on Monday night.

"I don't think they're building chemical weapons in Berea. But they might be. I can't say for sure."Chuck Klosterman

Govbarney wrote:The man who invents the casual spectator catheter will never want for nothing.

In my college days at tOSU I often tinkered with the idea of using a camel back as a mobile pissing apparatus. Never put it into practice. Back in 2003 I was at the night game where we won on a missed Purdue FG in OT, and at one point when shit was really tight my buddy said fuck it, and pissed his pants. The same guy repeated this in 2008 when the Browns beat the Giants on Monday night.

pod2dawg wrote:I miss pissing in those bathtubs they used to have at Muni.

As a youngest in the late 80's, nothing was more horrifying/hilarious than going with my dad or grandpa into the bathroom and having to wedge in with 20 drunk men. The view from down there was something that's hard to forget.

swerb wrote:The best at old Muni was the line to piss in the garbage can in the corner of the bathroom.

Or sitting in the lower grandstand behind a support beam in a "restricted view" seat.

I've been away from the area since 1979 back when I-480 ended at Brookpark. The times that I've come back to visit family, there was always a problem finding a hotel room.When you live there you really don't realize how limited the accommodations are up there.

Instead of giving more money to a gazillionaire, why don't you guys use it to fix the fucking roads that rival some third world countries I've been to?

Worst investment a city could ever make and of course, Cleveland got themselves on the hook for an even worse than normal deal with the Browns.

It's arguable. I think investing in schools managed by the Cleveland dept. of Ed are a significantly bigger waste of funds. Not to mention some of the other high-cost functions of the city.

Obviously a strict accounting standpoint it's a pretty shitty short/mid term investment. But the money used for it is a direct tax that the voters enabled. And it's a tax that is unlikely to have been approved for anything else.

But like the Casino, the Rock Hall of Fame, Medical Mart, etc. there are enough benefits from a pure marketing perspective that it's incredibly difficult to quantify the real benefits of having an NFL franchise. The NFL is the most popular league in the US in terms of television viewers (and arguably followers) and when the NFL franchise of a city plays on prime time it is one of the best marketing tools available to a city.

The overall marketing of Cleveland when attempting to attract businesses and individuals to the city includes the Browns. If the Browns do become a franchise that is routinely discussed by followers of the NFL and profiled by the NFL in primetime events (including playoffs) you're probably getting close to the ROI you'd get in a similar marketing campaign. Certainly the Indians turnaround success in the 90's helped the city tremendously market itself as a turnaround city.

Large and small businesses do care about the features a city has when considering where to build/locate and a city that has multiple sporting venues, multiple other attractactions, etc. certainly does weigh heavily on those choices even if other factors like taxes are more heavily considered. I agree that MLB and NBA venues and multiple use stadiums make significantly more sense than single use NFL stadiums but having all of those venues is a fairly effective selling point. I think the next generation stadium wave will be smaller venues (45-60k seating) that are tailored for more uses including storefronts/conventions/concerts/etc. but I think that the Clevescene article doesn't really look at other investments or even look at it from a business/marketing perspective.

Sporting venues and other attractions are used by cities to help people identify with a central grouping of large businesses or residences. It is as much a reason why a city like Cleveland is still able to milk so many people who rarely visit or associate with the city as any other thing they have rigged up.

It's not even in the realm of arguable. Every single economist and urban planning mind in the country has called bullshit on that giant turd of a fallacy you just laid. The numbers (supported by pre/post expansion data and inter-city upgrade data) support nothing you claim there. Just like the numbers support a shitty Casino giving C-town a 1-2 year bounce that then dies.

You're smart and well read, I recommend you read up on this. The article on question starts giving you links to the wormhole.

And calling out the tax paying absurd repair costs while ignoring the initial investment the city made is just shitty math.

Cleveland, like many others, got swindled.

Frankly, NYC ended all of this when they refused the Jets relocation project. Then things were cool for four years and Jerry Jones decided to fuck it all up again.....

Any city in America that pays for a stadium is retarded (as in learning disabled retarded). This has been proven at this point.

It's not even in the realm of arguable. Every single economist and urban planning mind in the country has called bullshit on that giant turd of a fallacy you just laid. The numbers (supported by pre/post expansion data and inter-city upgrade data) support nothing you claim there. Just like the numbers support a shitty Casino giving C-town a 1-2 year bounce that then dies.

You're smart and well read, I recommend you read up on this. The article on question starts giving you links to the wormhole.

And calling out the tax paying absurd repair costs while ignoring the initial investment the city made is just shitty math.

Cleveland, like many others, got swindled.

Frankly, NYC ended all of this when they refused the Jets relocation project. Then things were cool for four years and Jerry Jones decided to fuck it all up again.....

Any city in America that pays for a stadium is retarded (as in learning disabled retarded). This has been proven at this point.

SD:

Your argument is the classic foolishness , that discounts the immutable fact ,

That

Perception is reality .

Because Buffalo has the Bills , they are relevant , without them , they would be a pimple on the ass of a blotch on a map even with Niagarra Falls in the back drop .

Cleveland remains relevant because of their sports , in a city which has lost much of its manufacturing and population , three sports teams still provide it with Big City cachet around the Country .

The bean counting miscreants which discount the value of a sports team to a Cities reputation and status are the fools who value Saber Metric stats over a triple Crown winner whose actual play was part and parcel to leading his team to the playoffs .

Wither Green Bay without the Packers , and eat that with shit on your point and stats about costs , it means nothing in the political wastes of gubernment .

Nobody gives a damn , its money spent in their neighborhoods which would get wasted smewhere else.