A Diary of Stupid Human Tricks.
Commentary on everything from Joe Average to international politics.

Thursday, February 11, 2016

GMO debate

It is not at all uncommon for me to kick the proverbial hornet's nest on this subject.

As I note in this conversation, I have a good friend, Dr. Cami Ryan, who is an expert in this field, and contact with another person, the public affairs officer for Monsanto, who is Cami's friend, who advised me on a bunch of these issues.

The short form is this:
GMOs are common, ubiquitous and SAFE, and consumed by humans and livestock for more than 70 years.
Glyphosate is an effective, low-risk, fast-dispersing herbicide that has been in use for more than 60 years.

These things are facts, supported by science and frankly indisputable, but disputed they are.

Here's today's convo:

There are so many ways I've lost respect for this
guy in the last decade, from the middlingly awful music they've been making for
years, to having their latest album appear unbidden in my iTunes. More annoying
than anything.
But this is a whole new level of evil. Damn, Bono.

For more than 70 years, GMO tech has been part of our landscape. Despite so
much garbage, non-research, conspiracy, full-on-bullshit about it, the facts
are CLEAR CLEAR CLEAR: the careful, thoughtful, science-based, heavily
regulated manipulation of genes in order to produce excellent quality,
drought/disease/pest-resistant foods/grains is NOT DANGEROUS.

It is CRITICAL to understand the realities of modification - and how lab
modification differs from all the other types of modifications that happen to
food.

As for the source of this article, PLEASE people... seriously??? Such a deep
pit of bullshit is this organisation.

Globalresearch (under the domain names
globalresearch.ca andglobalresearch.org)
is the website of the Montreal-based non-profit The Centre for Research on
Globalisation (CRG) founded by Michel Chossudovsky,[2][3] a tenured professor
at the University of Ottawa.[4] Weep for the future.

RATIONALWIKI.ORG

JC: As for Bono being a humanitarian, and making
sustainable crops more of a reality, ABSOLUTELY. Because things are hard to
grow in arid climates first of all, and doubly difficult where the soil is poor
and pests are a major factor.

It's all well and good for us who are so spoiled by an ample, safe food supply
to dictate what should happen in Africa - or to ignore the huge rates of
starvation there - assessed at one person per every TWO SECONDS. If GMO seed
can provide viable foodsources, then YES. Because there is ZERO risk to human
health, and even if there were (and there is NOT) compared to 30 people
starving every minute, don't you think it's worth the risk??

JM Studies coming out
indicate high glyphosphate levels in humans and autism , alzheimers, allergies,
birth defects, ADHD, Just a few... No studies have been done proving the safety
of GMO foods. Now is the time to do this.

JM The starvation has
alot to do with dictators who steal all the $$ and put in swiss bank accounts and
never develop infrastructure in preparation for drought times. It is the
downfall of Africa. GMO crops are not the solution.

JC: Yet another ridiculous, ill-informed,
fear-mongering site. This group is TINY and is made up of, to be frank,
uneducated idiots who believe all sorts of bullshit.

AS for glyphosate That is ALSO BULLSHIT.

Glyphosate ONLY affects PLANT enzymes. It is highly volatile in that it
dissipates within very few days. It does NOT remain in the plant and even if it
did, it CANNOT have any effect on humans, as we do NOT have the enzyme affected
by this product. Further to this, the amounts used on fields is VERY small. One
gallon is enough to do hundreds and hundreds of acres.

JC Jane.
A lot, not "alot." Your point here has zero relationship to the subject
at hand, and it is an unfounded opinion.

GM crops are not the whole solution, true but they are a HUGE part of it.

Also, can I ask you if you've recently eaten an apple, banana, pear or any
broccoli, because if you have - regardless of whether you also buy in to the
also-bullshity "organic" fad, you are eating GM foods. For SURE.,

JC: JM, go to www.rationalwiki.com and
look up Moms Across America. Seriously. That group is ridiculously idiotic.

JC: JM, Show me those studies. Provide links.
I promise you I will debunk, with prejudice, every study you post.

SM So JC - tell us how
Monsanto's independant safety testing and licensing works devil emoticon...and
while you're at it can you explain why you think Glyphosate is safe.

JH: JC, would
you like to reply to Stan?

JC: I'd love to reply to both of those.
When I was researching Monsanto, I called them. I spoke to the public policy
lead and picked her brain. She spoke to me for an hour and then sent me loads
of independently reviewed research. She also directed me to a vast external
resource, all public.

As for glyphosate, again. There is endless publicly available information and
independently-reviewed science on this product and subject. Yes, If you wish I
will go into my archives and post everthing I have, which will provide you all
about two weeks of reading materials. Or, you can do what I did, call Monsanto
and, if you're near a location, go visit - they run. Daily tours of all
facilities and their staff is free to speak. Ask them about the science.

Glyphosate is an extremely safe, low dose, short life herbicide. It ONLY
affects a certain plant enzyme which humans do not have. It has been in use
more than 60 years and I'd it were dangerous we would see evidence and the US.
And Canadian food safety organizations would have pulled it. Facts do not support
the idea it is unsafe.

Please read everything I've written and posted tonight rather than me rewriting
it all again

JC: As to the article, let us parse:
1. "As his career continues to free fall into total irrelevance..."
This is opinion, not fact and does not reference the excellent initiatives Bono
has begun or is affiliated with. Also, as the band has been at it for something
like 30 years, and still plays to absolutely CRAMMED stadiums, this opinion is
not in any imaginable way supported by facts.

2. "... his support for a U.S.-backed plan to pillage Africa by stealing
its land and agricultural systems and replacing them with corporate-owned GMOs
(genetically-modified organisms) and chemicals."

The US does NOT have a "plan to pillage Africa." Africa is a
continent, not a country; each African country has its own government (or
dictator, as the case may be), so it is IMPOSSIBLE for the US to pillage the
entire continent.

The US does NOT have any plans to steal land, or ag systems in Africa. The US
could not begin to afford the wars it would take to overthrow various
governments in order to enact this "evil" plan. Yes, GMOs are
produced by corporations that have the R&D heft to allow for their development
and testing, but that has no bearing on anything. There are five large and many
smaller corporations that are engaged in the science of modification.

3. "/The Obama regime." This is bullshit. Obama is the duly-elected
president of a country with free elections. It is NOT a regime. Dictatorships
are regimes. Saudi Arabia has a regime. Obama was elected. He is not a despot
and he didn't wrest power from anyone by force.

4. "New Alliance for Food Security and Nutrition,” a thinly-veiled Green
Revolution 2.0 that aims to uproot autonomous family farming systems throughout
Africa and replace them with toxic monoculture systems controlled by
multinational corporations like Monsanto."

Also bullshit. Monoculture is NOT the goal, first of all: even a mediocre
scientist will tell you that narrowing the gene pool leads to bad things. See
the Hawaiian papaya issue for a case study.

I'm only two paragraphs in to this stupid article and disgusted by it. It is
fact-free, biased, fear mongering crap designed for people who see conspiracy
under every rock. It is beneath thinking people to buy into this garbage.

JM I totally disagree with you and that is fine.
Blessings and be happy not angry and the Monsanto tragedy will continue.

Glyphosate is a synthetic herbicide that is widely
used in farming, especially since the introduction of glyphosate-tolerant
strains of crops have been introduced via genetic engineering, and has been
historically produced by agricultural biotechnical company Monsanto under the
trademark "Roundup",…

JM: These articles are
published by scientists. You can find anything on the internet to prove your
point. Does not make it correct. i have studied this serious issue extensively.

JC: I claim bullshit. If you had, you'd have
changed you stance. And yes, science is the best source of information on
science-based issues, unless you think opinion caries more weight than 60 years
of research.

JC: Did you
actually read this, Jane? Can you find any errors in science?

JC: Um... Dear
Jane. The problem here is that you did not read the
background on the source, Global Research, and so you are posting really,
really bad resources that use really, really bad science. This article is
EASILY debunked.

rbutr helps you find rbutls to any page you read on
the internet so that you can get a complete view of all sides of the
discussion.

RBUTR.COM

JH: JC, whether or not you believe that GMO foods
are safe: there remains the question of the right to self-determination vs. the
kind of paternalistic colonialist enterprising we've seen ravage cultures and
ecologies throughout the world. The African Civil Organizations stand against.
Doesn't that matter to you? Or do you know better?

Also - do you really think that using Monsanto crops, which require an
intensive chemical regime to create good yields, is a good idea for people or
planet, in Africa or elsewhere?
I don't. I think some big interests are going to make some big money, create an
unsustainable dependency on non-compassionate foreign corporations, and further
undermine local ecologies and intelligences in the process.

There are MANY ways to improve arid landscapes. Is big Ag interested in sharing
the planet- and people-friendly methods that permaculturists have been
developing for decades? At all? No. Out of the goodness of their hearts? No.
Give your head a shake. They're in it for money, they don't care about people's
right to self-determination, and they sure as hell don't care about getting
more food to Africans. They care about more CUSTOMERS. That is all.

Question to you: who edits your Rational Wiki? Are you aware that many large organizations
- particularly big pharma and big Ag - have full-time staff that aggressively
monitor wikis to ensure their propaganda stays front and centre, and reasonable
criticisms (and the studies that support them) get buried? Do you really think
that Rational Wiki is any less biased than Global Research? You are completely
entitled to your favorite sources, the ones that align with your biases, but
don't BS yourself that yours are "The Truth".

I don't "believe." The science is crystal
clear. You eat GMO EVER Day and have for your entire life.

These are all tropes based on conspiracy. I
personally know two people who work with Monsanto. I trust the science and I
trust these scientists. The information that counters these claims is readily
had.

People are welcome to their opinions but not to have these false, conspiracy
based statements go unchallenged.

As for a Rational Wiki I don't know the answer to that question but the have a
contact and FAQ page. Call and ask.

JH: Truly I say to you, Bono is an ass. Posting
this because I find it amusing and clearly there will be no actual exchange of
ideas here. Just a lot of shouting in the dark. So, something funny.

JH: Trusting science as a system and trusting
Monsanto reps saying their products are safe are not the same thing.

BH: Just a thought it is possible Julie to have a
healthy debate without being demeaning and condescending to those you are
debating with. I hope you're not an educator cause your students would be
afraid of you.

JH2: Awe this is sad. Money hungry asses unsure
emoticon those poor people in Africa. Commercialism is not alright. This
article is was very good at providing valid points on mega co operations
wanting to make revenue at their cultural's expense. Geez unsure emoticon

JH2: ^^^^That
is how I feel about that !!!! frown emoticon

JH: And for
more fun... JC I think you'll
find this an interesting read. Conspiracies do actually happen. Not everyone
who mistrusts the powerful is an idiot. Governments and businesses do not
always tell the expensive truth about their illegal or unethical practices.

BF: And actually super interesting that you
use the word fear mongering to describe others cause that's pretty much what
you've done with all your posts. Rather than take you serious Julie I stopped
reading half way through after all the people you called idiotic.

JC: I don't give a damn if people call me
idiotic. I simply feel sorry that people are so bonded to their beliefs which
should not be confused with science-based knowledge.

I did my research - a LOT of it - on these two subjects; I called people, I
read case law, studies - independent studies to be clear - and then I
called back Monsanto and checked with them.

I have reams of information, sites, links, and case law that I can cite and I
guarantee you, most of the poeple here haven't done any research at all, and
are relying on very poor resources. Whatever. That's their right, but it
doesn't mean they are right, and it doesn't change the facts, or the excellent
science.

JC: Sorry all. Facts are facts are facts and good
science is good science.

I've given 90 minutes of my time and many good links here. I'll adwww.sciencebasedmedicine.org to the list and suggest you look up Doc. Cami Ryan's blog.

Science-Based Medicine: Exploring issues and
controversies in the relationship between science and…

SCIENCEBASEDMEDICINE.ORG

JC: Also, there is an excellent discussion of the
GMO issue at Food and Farm Discussion Lab (Facebook
group) a group of farmers international, who are experts in this and other
ag-related issues. I know there is a very active discussion of GMO seeds on there
because I directed another anti-GMO person there the other day. #creamed.

One must at some point at least READ the science behind this stuff. Have your
opinions, but understand that the science is based on more than 70 years'
research and use, in the case of GMOs and more than 60 for glyphosate.

And given you are all consuming GMO products every single day of your lives,
and you will continue to do so for the rest of your lives, and that you're all
quite healthy, I'm sure, and that people the world over are NOT dropping like
flies, AND that sustainability is a CORE goal of the five main companies
engaged in GMO tech (Monsanto is only one of them), the idea they are intent on
not only ruining the world but cannibalising their own clients in the bargain
is absurd.

JC: JH, that Dupont thing has zero to do with
glyphosate or gmos. I'm going to read the case - the actual case, not this
tear-jerking story - to understand what the case was based on and what the
outcome was.