Automotive Air Conditioning Information Forum (Archives)

other refrigerants

uawelder on Thu June 03, 2010 10:39 AM

What are the problems with Envirosafe ES-12a substute or Freeze 12? Es-12a is a hydrocarbon. The manufactures claim both are much more efficent than 134a. Also ther is another called 406a, I think. What are the downfalls of this product. They sure do have some very enticing information ( advertisment ) on their web site. If the stuff is bad how can they mislead people with a lot of fancy talk. Thanks Ron

-------------------------ronald r bird

HECAT on Thu June 03, 2010 11:34 AM

They contain flammables and blends of flammable refrigerants. Things you don't find in the marketing ("puffery") literature; liabilities, legalities, poor oil migration, fractionated leakage rates, etc. That breeze you feel in the rear, is someone blowing smoke. Look it up, it really is called "puffery". Sounds too good to be true, because its not true.

Since false advertising claims must be pursued today (FTC was deregulated) in our court systems, and since all the HC peddling competitors are making similar performance (unfounded, outrageous, impossible, deceptive, false?) claims, and therefore will not sue each other; it's up to you to take them to court and make them prove their claims. Not going to happen, and they know it.

TRB on Thu June 03, 2010 11:45 AM

mk378 on Thu June 03, 2010 11:51 AM

R-406a is an approved replacement for R-12 but it is seldom used. It contains R-22 which is really prone to fractional leakage, being a small molecule that can actually diffuse right through intact rubber hoses.

Really the best refrigerant to run in an R-12 car is still R-12. Second best is a proper conversion to R-134a.

Edited: Thu June 03, 2010 at 11:53 AM by mk378

iceman2555 on Thu June 03, 2010 4:28 PM

Must be 'summer time'....getting hot somewhere.....at least my phone is ringing off the hook with 'how to do this...or this does not work' calls.....and now the "Propane Posse' is showing up once more......heck....just tell the best method to test for leakage is the 'ole 12 method' of using a 'torch'. I think that would put suitable closure to all this crap.

-------------------------The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. Thomas Jefferson

Peter_Coll on Thu June 03, 2010 4:59 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by: uawelderWhat are the problems with Envirosafe ES-12a substute or Freeze 12? Es-12a is a hydrocarbon. The manufactures claim both are much more efficent than 134a. Also ther is another called 406a, I think. What are the downfalls of this product. They sure do have some very enticing information ( advertisment ) on their web site. If the stuff is bad how can they mislead people with a lot of fancy talk. Thanks Ron

Ron,

The first question is "What country are you in?" After answering that question, refer to the information below to determine if it is legal to use in your country.

Is it legal to use Enviro-SafeÃ¢ÂÂ¢ Refrigerant in automotive applications?Yes, in most countries throughout the world.

However, in the United States, the US EPA adopted the SNAP (Significant New Alternative Policy) concerning R12 systems, global warming and ozone depletion. Pre-1994 mobile air conditioning systems operated on CFC R12, which has been ruled environmentally unsafe because it contributes to global warming and ozone depletion. All R12 systems must be retrofieed prior to using any alternative or environmentally safe refrigerant. Please note: In the United States, Enviro-Safe Refrigerant is not a drop in replacement for R12.

Enviro-Safe Refrigerant may be used to replace HFC 134a and R12 substitutes in the majority of states within the United States. Enviro-Safe advises that you refer to your local, state and federal laws governing the sale and use of any refrigerant