(03-04-2013 01:19 PM)Ameron1963 Wrote: Do I make the money and spread the bull?

Get ready to take notes... bbeljefe will have some advice just by that last question alone

Personally, I don't think you are "spreading the bull." Yeah, you ARE making merchandise that goes against what YOU believe, but a business has to make money, too.

I'm assuming you still use cash that states "In God We Trust?"

I think that you are right. I don't have to fish to design shirts for people who do. I don't have to be gay to design shirts for people who are. Why would I have to be christian to design shirts for christians! Thanks for your input!

(03-04-2013 01:19 PM)Ameron1963 Wrote: Thanks! I live in the Bible belt and that addmission would be sure to kill any local business. How do you feel about this question? It is a tee-shirt business. Local events. Some of those events could be religious events. The tees will be generated from my art. Money could be made from tees with religious themes. At this point, I'm not planning to take this route. But the question is there. Do I make the money and spread the bull?

I would. Why not? Of course, I would also offer shirts with atheist messages on them, if that's within the scope of your artistic abilities*.

I do get your point. And it's a very good one! I wouldn't anylize every other job I might get. Why analize this one? I should do my best work and move on to the next project. Thanks for your input!

*I'm struggling for the right word there. But you get the point I'm sure.

(04-04-2013 07:21 AM)aramus Wrote: Just thought I would chime in as a new forum member who is in the boat you are about to get in.

I am still in the closet... and live in the Bible Belt as well. I have 30-40 websites I built and/or maintain. Two of them are churches. So, same question on my mind as yours... do I continue to "help" these two clients spread a word when I don't believe it?

Here is how I look at some of my clients

- church one... I actually attend this one (atheist in the pew)
- church two... catholic = seems even more like a circus to me
- book author... I have no desire to read her books
- bail bond agent... his clients are crooks
- shriner website... I don't know their beliefs... not interested either
- motorcycle club... they seem shady

My view is that it is not my job to judge them and their beliefs. So, if they want to buy my services it does not mean I have to buy theirs...

It seems to me as though you're still looking through your God glasses at the world. That's understandable but, I'd like to help you take those off, if you don't mind.

- church one & two... places where children are taken to be indoctrinated into a belief system that has been the single most instrumental hindrance to human progress over the last 5000 years or so.

- book author... a lot of people write them, most aren't widely read.

- bail bond agent... his clients are people who have been accused of a crime. Many of whom are non violent people accused of victimless crimes. Some of whom are falsely accused.

- shriners... Most are theists but the organization helps thousands of sick, underprivileged children who might otherwise suffer greatly or even die.

- motorcycle club... a sample slice of society whom all share one common interest. Not unlike any other random group of people in that any one of them could be a pillar of honor and any other one of them could be as unsavory as to be a clergyman or worse even, a politician.

Of those you listed, if they were my customers and I was inclined toward not doing business with them on moral grounds, the first two would be gone. The rest are either offering a desired service to a marketplace of interested buyers, are offering a benevolent charity or are simply sharing a common interest.

I always forget that when writing online you really have to explain stuff or it is easy for people to not get where you were going.

A few posts after mine actually says it better... you don't have to be a fisherman to design shirts with fish on them, you don't have to be gay to design shirts for gay people"

I was trying to say that I provide services to people that SOME people might not like. I don't have a problem with any of them. I HAVE turned away people who are selling scams that prey on people. I would also turn away someone doing something illegal. I have no doubt (and totally understand) how the churches can be seen as "selling a scam" - however, still trying to process my position.

The motorcycle club was brought to me because a friend is a member. One of the church sites only contacts me once every 24 months. They maintain their own site and only pay me for hosting/domain services. The other church is one where I am actually a member (because I only realized I was atheist/agnostic/still trying to figure out a week ago). If you see my other thread about the "matrix" you will see where I am in my journey.

(04-04-2013 10:26 AM)bbeljefe Wrote: It seems to me as though you're still looking through your God glasses at the world. That's understandable but, I'd like to help you take those off, if you don't mind.

- church one & two... places where children are taken to be indoctrinated into a belief system that has been the single most instrumental hindrance to human progress over the last 5000 years or so.

- book author... a lot of people write them, most aren't widely read.

- bail bond agent... his clients are people who have been accused of a crime. Many of whom are non violent people accused of victimless crimes. Some of whom are falsely accused.

- shriners... Most are theists but the organization helps thousands of sick, underprivileged children who might otherwise suffer greatly or even die.

- motorcycle club... a sample slice of society whom all share one common interest. Not unlike any other random group of people in that any one of them could be a pillar of honor and any other one of them could be as unsavory as to be a clergyman or worse even, a politician.

Of those you listed, if they were my customers and I was inclined toward not doing business with them on moral grounds, the first two would be gone. The rest are either offering a desired service to a marketplace of interested buyers, are offering a benevolent charity or are simply sharing a common interest.

I always forget that when writing online you really have to explain stuff or it is easy for people to not get where you were going.

A few posts after mine actually says it better... you don't have to be a fisherman to design shirts with fish on them, you don't have to be gay to design shirts for gay people"

I was trying to say that I provide services to people that SOME people might not like. I don't have a problem with any of them. I HAVE turned away people who are selling scams that prey on people. I would also turn away someone doing something illegal. I have no doubt (and totally understand) how the churches can be seen as "selling a scam" - however, still trying to process my position.

The motorcycle club was brought to me because a friend is a member. One of the church sites only contacts me once every 24 months. They maintain their own site and only pay me for hosting/domain services. The other church is one where I am actually a member (because I only realized I was atheist/agnostic/still trying to figure out a week ago). If you see my other thread about the "matrix" you will see where I am in my journey.

I somehow missed the "Still in the closet" part. Sorry. I am "out" in terms of anyone who knows me from a personal standpoint. But still think that would be a mistake in terms of customers. It would be a game killer. But the question of religious tee-shirts is still there. I probabaly wouldn't turn them down. But kind of hope to have my own ideas (I am an artist) work well enough that I don't have to consider it.

To me, people that unfriend others on facebook because they have a different beleif system is ignorant and mean. I know what you mean, how others can proclaim how Christian they are. I think they feel like they are doing God a favor or something, or playing favorites. I also HATE HATE HATE the "repost this if you agree" type shit. Generally, I ski people out and block their posts fro mine. Oh yes, there is a wonderful, magical block button. This way, I don't have to see pictures of my HUsband's guyfriends girlfriends with their boobs hanging out while making the duck face at a bar or party. It can be very hard to come out, an tell folks your an atheist. Christians have this false mind set that they are right. Sorry, best luck to you. This to shall pass.

“You just go where your high-top sneakers sneak, and don't forget to use your head.”