Said Melissa Vedder, 36, of Birmingham: "I think it's horrible, and it's honestly tacky. It's going to be outside. Why would you put a fake tree outside? It's just absolutely ridiculous. I hate buying a fake tree to put inside. The kids have allergies, I have to have a fake tree. But outside? A fake one? I can't even imagine!"

sigdiamond2000:Said Melissa Vedder, 36, of Birmingham: "I think it's horrible, and it's honestly tacky. It's going to be outside. Why would you put a fake tree outside? It's just absolutely ridiculous. I hate buying a fake tree to put inside. The kids have allergies, I have to have a fake tree. But outside? A fake one? I can't even imagine!"

dj_bigbird:sigdiamond2000: Said Melissa Vedder, 36, of Birmingham: "I think it's horrible, and it's honestly tacky. It's going to be outside. Why would you put a fake tree outside? It's just absolutely ridiculous. I hate buying a fake tree to put inside. The kids have allergies, I have to have a fake tree. But outside? A fake one? I can't even imagine!"

Oh for the love of f*cking God...

Kids are allergic to f*cking Christmas trees now?

Lots of people have pine allergies. It's not uncommon.

No allergy is uncommon any more. People are allergic to electricity meters and photons nowadays, for f*ck's sake.

sigdiamond2000:dj_bigbird: sigdiamond2000: Said Melissa Vedder, 36, of Birmingham: "I think it's horrible, and it's honestly tacky. It's going to be outside. Why would you put a fake tree outside? It's just absolutely ridiculous. I hate buying a fake tree to put inside. The kids have allergies, I have to have a fake tree. But outside? A fake one? I can't even imagine!"

Oh for the love of f*cking God...

Kids are allergic to f*cking Christmas trees now?

Lots of people have pine allergies. It's not uncommon.

No allergy is uncommon any more. People are allergic to electricity meters and photons nowadays, for f*ck's sake.

This is true, but my mom has had a pine allergy for as long as she can remember and she hardly grew up as a "precious snowflake"

sigdiamond2000:dj_bigbird: sigdiamond2000: Said Melissa Vedder, 36, of Birmingham: "I think it's horrible, and it's honestly tacky. It's going to be outside. Why would you put a fake tree outside? It's just absolutely ridiculous. I hate buying a fake tree to put inside. The kids have allergies, I have to have a fake tree. But outside? A fake one? I can't even imagine!"

Oh for the love of f*cking God...

Kids are allergic to f*cking Christmas trees now?

Lots of people have pine allergies. It's not uncommon.

No allergy is uncommon any more. People are allergic to electricity meters and photons nowadays, for f*ck's sake.

sigdiamond2000:Said Melissa Vedder, 36, of Birmingham: "I think it's horrible, and it's honestly tacky. It's going to be outside. Why would you put a fake tree outside? It's just absolutely ridiculous. I hate buying a fake tree to put inside. The kids have allergies, I have to have a fake tree. But outside? A fake one? I can't even imagine!"

sigdiamond2000:dj_bigbird: sigdiamond2000: Said Melissa Vedder, 36, of Birmingham: "I think it's horrible, and it's honestly tacky. It's going to be outside. Why would you put a fake tree outside? It's just absolutely ridiculous. I hate buying a fake tree to put inside. The kids have allergies, I have to have a fake tree. But outside? A fake one? I can't even imagine!"

Oh for the love of f*cking God...

Kids are allergic to f*cking Christmas trees now?

Lots of people have pine allergies. It's not uncommon.

No allergy is uncommon any more. People are allergic to electricity meters and photons nowadays, for f*ck's sake.

This is true, but an outdoor Christmas tree will not provide enough oxygen to make a difference, and if some bird decides to make a home in that one, will he complain that the birds are losing said sanctuary?

Let's see now. The town can use a fake tree every year or they can go cut down a huge old tree that they will send to the chipper in just a few weeks. All this angst over a holiday that almost no one over 10 years of age really likes.

JackieRabbit:Let's see now. The town can use a fake tree every year or they can go cut down a huge old tree that they will send to the chipper in just a few weeks. All this angst over a holiday that almost no one over 10 years of age really likes.

/grumpy old atheist me loves Christmas in nearly all its permuations and varied modes of celebration//if your kid can't get within sight of a pine tree lest it set of an allergic reaction that would kill him, then please, slaughter him before he breeds, as to prevent the weakening of the gene pool///you have a right to exist - you don't have a right to not have itchy eyes and a drippy nose.

suthrnrunt:rappy: The war on Christmas has got to stop. These people who are fighting against it are going to burn in Hell. They need to accept our Savior, He will remove the hate from their hearts.

yes let's all bow and pay homage to the pagan holiday turned christian and worship the false idol known as the original zombie that rose from the dead.

And we desire each one of you to show the same earnestness to have the full assurance of hope until the end, 12 so that you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises. - Hebrews 6:11

What's funny is Kids today might not realize (and my niece didn't, at 6) that Christmas trees actually use to look like that in the 60's and 70's - garish, wild colors and materials like Aluminium and cheap plastic. They looked terrible. Granted, artificial trees today are better.. but that's not GOOD. They're still ugly and easily identifiable.

Don't so much have a problem of a plastic tree for a large public display like thatKinda makes sense in a way as long as it saves tax moneyBut its those damn LED lights I hateToo bright and sharp on the eyesMakes a display look cold and hard

saintstryfe:/grumpy old atheist me loves Christmas in nearly all its permuations and varied modes of celebration//if your kid can't get within sight of a pine tree lest it set of an allergic reaction that would kill him, then please, slaughter him before he breeds, as to prevent the weakening of the gene pool///you have a right to exist - you don't have a right to not have itchy eyes and a drippy nose.

So celebrate one of the non-christian festivities. Yule, for example, which is where most of our Christmas traditions come from.

Most kids today don't have allergies. They have underdeveloped immune systems and pussified helicopter parents, who are responsible for the former.

Had a fake tree growing up. It was fine, but when I got married we went to the tree farm and got a live one. Not one of those places that has them all ready for you take home. The place we go to gives you a saw and makes you cut it down and carry it back.

So, as far as I can tell, the story references the "old tree" as if it's a permanent (and ugly) installation that they are replacing with a fake tree. Then they talk about whether the city should've kept the old permanent tree, or replaced it with a new, temporary fake tree, or a temporary live tree, like the surrounding cities. Why couldn't they replace the old, ugly permanent live tree with a new permanent live tree? Wouldn't that have been the most economically and ecologically effective solution?

Seems like a particularly Birmingham 'problem' and solution. I suppose in this case, I could ask any dozens of my relatives that actually live in Birmingham....except that then I'd be, you know, talking to my relatives.

JackieRabbit:saintstryfe: /grumpy old atheist me loves Christmas in nearly all its permuations and varied modes of celebration//if your kid can't get within sight of a pine tree lest it set of an allergic reaction that would kill him, then please, slaughter him before he breeds, as to prevent the weakening of the gene pool///you have a right to exist - you don't have a right to not have itchy eyes and a drippy nose.

So celebrate one of the non-christian festivities. Yule, for example, which is where most of our Christmas traditions come from.

Most kids today don't have allergies. They have underdeveloped immune systems and pussified helicopter parents, who are responsible for the former.

No argument on the second part. Kids don't play.

Well, you see, the reason I love Christmas so well is I grew up celebrating it. It is associated with almost entirely happy memories and feelings. Yule means bupkis to me. Christmas - with all it's tie of pagan ritual, christian meaning, and secular entanglements are what I love, not some arbitrary set of lame proceedings. I love the lights, the cookies, the wrapping, the material part. I love that it makes people sit down and reflect a bit. People choose to be better during this time of year. Be it donating time or money, being nicer to themselves and others. Is there something wrong with enjoying that by itself?

Is it based on a fantasy, ancient proceedings overwhelmed by a monolithic organization? Yes. So what? Can't I love it for what it has become, and can't that have meaning to me, as a consumerist and as an atheist, without giving a whig about the religious aspects?

And beside, in the end, it's a party. It's a party in the darkness - at the bleakest point in the year, when the sun is at its lowest we choose to light candles, string strings of multi-colored "fark you's" to the darkness and say "This blackness shall too end". We do this with our friends, our families, those we care about. It's a celebration of life. If you want it to be a celebration of a life started in a manger, supposedly, 2000 years ago. That's silly, but what the hell, cool. For me, it's my life, now, today. The lives of my friends and family, coworkers and acquiescence. I share Christmas to them, with the hope they get a tiny ray of enjoyment close to what I get out of it. If I can show that, I'm happy.

Plant a tree in a public place, and make it a perpetual Christmas tree. The town I grew up did that with a couple of pine trees in the late 90s, and they look pretty good now. Permanently on the courthouse lawn, trimmed with city money, and the decorations (done by a private group) are taken down after the holidays. (The system is probably a violation of church and state, but it's a small town and nobody has complained)

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier:Plant a tree in a public place, and make it a perpetual Christmas tree. The town I grew up did that with a couple of pine trees in the late 90s, and they look pretty good now. Permanently on the courthouse lawn, trimmed with city money, and the decorations (done by a private group) are taken down after the holidays. (The system is probably a violation of church and state, but it's a small town and nobody has complained)

Hardly. It's a celebration that huge swaths of the population hold to, but you kinda have to work to bring religion into it. It's all secular at this point unless you specifically make it religious.

saintstryfe:JackieRabbit: saintstryfe: /grumpy old atheist me loves Christmas in nearly all its permuations and varied modes of celebration//if your kid can't get within sight of a pine tree lest it set of an allergic reaction that would kill him, then please, slaughter him before he breeds, as to prevent the weakening of the gene pool///you have a right to exist - you don't have a right to not have itchy eyes and a drippy nose.

So celebrate one of the non-christian festivities. Yule, for example, which is where most of our Christmas traditions come from.

Most kids today don't have allergies. They have underdeveloped immune systems and pussified helicopter parents, who are responsible for the former.

No argument on the second part. Kids don't play.

Well, you see, the reason I love Christmas so well is I grew up celebrating it. It is associated with almost entirely happy memories and feelings. Yule means bupkis to me. Christmas - with all it's tie of pagan ritual, christian meaning, and secular entanglements are what I love, not some arbitrary set of lame proceedings. I love the lights, the cookies, the wrapping, the material part. I love that it makes people sit down and reflect a bit. People choose to be better during this time of year. Be it donating time or money, being nicer to themselves and others. Is there something wrong with enjoying that by itself?

Is it based on a fantasy, ancient proceedings overwhelmed by a monolithic organization? Yes. So what? Can't I love it for what it has become, and can't that have meaning to me, as a consumerist and as an atheist, without giving a whig about the religious aspects?

And beside, in the end, it's a party. It's a party in the darkness - at the bleakest point in the year, when the sun is at its lowest we choose to light candles, string strings of multi-colored "fark you's" to the darkness and say "This blackness shall too end". We do this with our friends, our families, those we care about. It's a celebration of life. If ...

I'm cool with that. Enjoy! I ask others to allow Christians to enjoy Christmas in the way of their choosing. I have no problem with them singing carols or having nativity scenes. These are not offensive to me. If I don't want to see it, I can ignore it. But I don't think I have the right to say Christians cannot call the holiday "Christmas" or that they cannot put a nativity in a public park. Such public spaces are for everyone and it doesn't hurt us if one of the uses is occasionally religious.

JackieRabbit:saintstryfe: /grumpy old atheist me loves Christmas in nearly all its permuations and varied modes of celebration//if your kid can't get within sight of a pine tree lest it set of an allergic reaction that would kill him, then please, slaughter him before he breeds, as to prevent the weakening of the gene pool///you have a right to exist - you don't have a right to not have itchy eyes and a drippy nose.

So celebrate one of the non-christian festivities. Yule, for example, which is where most of our Christmas traditions come from.

I grew up climbing the real tree in Shain Park that they don't want to use any more.While I love that old tree, it is old, sparse and a little odd looking. I'm fine with using that, but in general, the people in Birmingham want top of the line, not old and ugly.

Also, they are planning on using this fake tree for ten years. After that, they're hoping that some of the smaller pine trees have grown enough to start using as a Christmas tree.

I think it's wasteful, but about what I'd expect for the area. When I grew up, the park was meant for kids to play in with the old pine tree, a playground, dirt and all sorts of stuff kids like. Now it's a place for trophy wives with their finest 'outdoor' clothes on to be seen taking their toddler for a stroll in between shopping at overpriced, swanky stores. Way too much concrete in the park now to make it any fun for kids.

sigdiamond2000:Said Melissa Vedder, 36, of Birmingham: "I think it's horrible, and it's honestly tacky. It's going to be outside. Why would you put a fake tree outside? It's just absolutely ridiculous. I hate buying a fake tree to put inside. The kids have allergies, I have to have a fake tree. But outside? A fake one? I can't even imagine!"

LL316:JackieRabbit: saintstryfe: /grumpy old atheist me loves Christmas in nearly all its permuations and varied modes of celebration//if your kid can't get within sight of a pine tree lest it set of an allergic reaction that would kill him, then please, slaughter him before he breeds, as to prevent the weakening of the gene pool///you have a right to exist - you don't have a right to not have itchy eyes and a drippy nose.

So celebrate one of the non-christian festivities. Yule, for example, which is where most of our Christmas traditions come from.

Why would you do that when Christmas itself is awesome?

I guess I never have seen anything particularly awesome about it, since I grew up. To me, it has always been the most pain in the ass holidays. When I became a teenager, I began to see that most adults didn't like all the fuss and many drank to excess to escape the bullshiat. This was called "Christmas cheer". My first wife and her entire extended family made a huge to-do out of Christmas. From the afternoon of Christmas Eve, with only about four hours of sleep that night, until 2am 2/26, Christmas was back-to-back dinners, parties, drop-ins, etc. It was exhausting. But I can see how others would really get into it and everyone should celebrate exactly as they desire.