Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of it's wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. Every crazy, weird and wacky quote is straight from the pens of Armstrongite leaders or members who think they possess some insight into God and the Bible. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!

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Anonymous
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For some reason this posting reminded me of Virginia Satir.So, I'll share:It is hard for me to conceive how one can really experience themself as a responsible person without a thorough understanding of the difference between what people intend when they communicate and what the outcome of their communication is. Keeping straight what's you and what's me is the thrust of all of this, and producing a meeting between the two is the goal. It is my belief that at this point in time the evolvement of the condition of being human is only in its infancy. Therefore, it behooves all of us to become explorers and not judges; we can see ourselves as making a contribution toward the further education of being human. As a matter of fact, we expect that we will come out of our experiences with other people a little changed. If we don't, then we feel that we will have fallen into the category of judging. Our conclusion from our experience and from our observation of the people we have known is that they have learned five personal "unfreedoms" which fetter them and bind them and which are mistakenly called civilized. We will list them in their corrected form, which will include that which was corrected: HOW TO TURN UNFREEDOMS INTO FREEDOMS. (1) The freedom to see and to hear what is NOW instead of what should be, could be, was, or will be. (2) The freedom to feel what is felt NOW instead of what should be, could be, was, or will be. (3) The freedom to say what is NOW instead of what should be, could be, was, or will be. (4) The freedom to reach out for what you want instead of what you should want, not having to wait for someone to offer it to you. (5) The freedom to take risks in your own behalf instead of only waiting for a change in the situation to make it possible for you to have what you want for yourself.

To summarize, When I can see and hear what is here now, Feel what I feel now;Say what I feel, think, hear, see now;When I can reach out for what I want now;And can take risks in my own behalf now;When I can communicate all of this congruently now;And can get feedback creatively now;Then I am in a position to cope inventively with the situation outside of myself and the life inside of me successfully NOW.

I know how the cage bird sings. And the songs are Jutsum and Armstrong. I left LCG nearly a year ago. I was essentially told that I should be baptized and am not allowed to date outside the church. I was born into WCG then on GCG and LCG. In each I was told what to think but never how to think. Critical thinking was never taught. There were no biblical contradictions. Here are three of the questions I thought about.

Question 1: Why dinosaurs? The earth is billions of year old. Human kind has been around for a very small fraction of that. There are so many periods without mankind where far different creatures and plant life were here but no man. So all these earlier forms are here to trick some and lead them to believe in evolution? Or as God's master plan we just needed to not exist for the vast majority of time on earth?

Question 2: Why satan? So God is omni everything but he creates a being which can't be destroyed (or will be later... Who knows) This being gets put in charge of earth and rebels staging a revolution. Then this same being and his minions are allowed to be in charge for the vast majority of human existence but have to check with God before they deceive kings or kill people. This is the worst HR move ever seemingly. If Jesus looks at mankind as his children would you let them be ruled controlled and deceived by your version of Frankenstein?

Question 3: Viruses, Bacteria, and Funfgi? Some of these are great for humankind and coexist with us in us and on us. For those that cause millions to die, are HIV, HPV, MRSA, and the flu created by God as some sort of punishment? If so is he a bioweapons creator or did these things evolve like MRSA.

Unlike my former association I have questions and I don't claim to know the answers. I also have far more. I find that science and evolution answer speciation and how all life came to adapt or not to its environment. What all the COG's fail to do is adapt. They are confounded by circular reasoning and a mindset that the best days are behind us. They lament but don't actually do what some Protestants and Catholics do and engage the world. Instead they howl at it through radio and TV.

I miss my friends but I don't miss having to stay silent while questions ring loudly in my head. I don't miss ministers thinking that they have all the answers in unbridled hubris. I don't miss how we at LCG viewed other groups (2nd class Christians or "Greater church of God") I don't miss how we viewed the people of the world as deceived. I don't miss "resting" on the Sabbath in basements and Masonic Temples while so many wonderful things were happening just beyond the walls.

Sometimes I miss the certainty of having it all figured out and being one of the chosen. But I'd rather ask questions and not have answers then have answers with no questions.

Question#1: Evolution is science but we still, even now, have so many questions still left unanswered. Could a God have used the process of evolution to bring forth His creation?

Question#2: I think Satan is the embodiment of suffering. Doing it wrong or getting it wrong will lead to suffering.

Question#3: I'm not a biologist or immunologist so I can't answer that. Maybe everything evolves?

They won't adapt to new learnings, especially any information that challenges their beliefs or authority. What they do instead is to try and make others adapt to their short-sighted and often-wrong beliefs.

What I have always found fascinating about the church is that it felt if had to have an answer for everything. By providing what they thought were answers it robbed the members of the abilty to use reason and use their brains. Humans have inquisitive natures and seek to enrich their knowledge. That inquisitive streak stops the moment they fully embrace the church and its "truths." God reveals all knowledge through the prophet, apostle or leader, thus immediately letting the members know they are incapable of understanding anything. That's why we had myriads of booklets and hundreds of personal correspondence letters that provided the answers.

I never bought into the nonsense, even as a high school student. The library was a wealth of knowledge that far exceeded anything the church could ever explain. Coming to Pasadena I found the Pasadena library, Fuller and PCC libraries. The AC library was an absolute waste of time with books in if from the late 1800's through the 50's.

Studying evolution, geology, and real biblical studies that cover criticism, archeology, and other topics that dwell more in the question and mystery than in having answers is far more rewarding than reading a booklet or listening to an uneducated fool pontificate from the pulpit.

Personal faith should always involve mystery. Mystery is far more rewarding than having the answers.

NO2HWA: I think some just have to be the smartest person in the room and others mistake uniformity for unity.

For the past several weeks the Revised Common Lectionary has covered Galatians which I find much more interesting today than when I was in WCG. Paul argues that there are no rules required to be a Christian except the law of love. This is a scary book for people who think that a good Christian is someone who follows all the rules. This is a good book to read from time to time to reflect on the fact that Paul expected Jewish Christians to accept as equals Gentiles who were making no effort to keep Torah. Who would he expect us to accept?

Hello Anon 9:35, this is my understanding in relation to the questions you posted.

Before the end result of Genesis 1:26 could take place, all the other elements of creation had to not only take place but to be perfected.Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:

When the time was right and all testing was proving positive, God proceeded with what we call the creation week.Notice that in all of the creation process except for man, God commanded the various elements to come forth.Meaning they were already available, had already been created and perfected at some earlier time.

Gen 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament:

Gen 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit,

Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

Gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

Gen 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind:

Once everything else was in place, God proceeded with the final stage.

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him;

How did God do that? It’s very simple. Without exception, every living creature has a DNA code so once an environment including its entire ecosystem was perfected, God simply wiped it out and took what was proven acceptable for the next step.Now you know how and why remnants of past cultures and creatures exist.There is lot’s of speculation regarding the times needed for certain aspects of man’s creation but that too is no mystery.Just use what God tells us about man’s coming resurrection and that answers all those questions.In short, God used that exact same process in renewing the earth for man to inhabit.Even the resurrection process had to be perfected and therefore required some experimentation.In your reasoning process, you should include the creatures we class as pre-historic yet are flourishing today.Was there an evolution of man, yes of course there was. It was needed to ensure the end result would be perfect and capable of flourishing in the environment God designed for that purpose.

The new creature “man” had to be tested as well, in order to insure the success of the first decree, that being man being in the likeness and image of God.Hence, Lucifer was introduced and while controlled in his efforts, he was and is allowed to influence man.Evidently God feels man is ready to fulfill His decree as at Christ’s return, some will receive immortality.

Anon 4:04 The lectionary at this time in the year is a huge embarrassment to the Judaizers and bastardizers of the law that have infiltrated the church. Chief among them is James Malm and Bob Thiel, These man will go to any length to lie that the law is required. The gentiles never kept the law, the thief on the cross never kept the law, the eunuch never kept the law. The list is long for those that never were part of the law and never kept it. The law cannot bring salvation, never has and never will.

and I don't understand your comment. How then can I read these verses:-

"Act_13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. Act_13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God."

without concluding that the Gentiles 'kept the Sabbath'? At the very least some of them, the Gentiles, were keeping the Sabbath.

It was the Jerusalem council in Acts 15 that "negate[d] Jesus' own words" when they met to decide if circumcision (one of the most fundamental points of the law) was required in the post-resurrection age. They decided that it was not. All they asked of the Gentiles was that they keep four points which seem to have been intended to allow table fellowship between Gentiles and Jewish Christians (many of whom may have wished to still keep the law).

By nullifying one point of the law (circumcision), they nullified the entire law. That's very important to understand.

Read Galatians. Paul is angry at the Judaizers who have been telling his Gentile converts that they must keep the law in order to be saved. Pay attention to Paul's attitude toward the law. The law is temporary. Keeping it doesn't justify anyone. Believing that you must keep it denies the saving power of faith. Submitting to the law is a return to slavery.

At the end of the letter Paul offers pastoral counsel about how Christians should behave in the absence of a strict set of laws to rule them. He lists the fruits of the flesh as attitudes and actions to be avoided. Then he lists the fruits of the Spirit: Sabbath keeping, tithe paying, hand washing, pork avoiding, circumcision inflicting. Oops! Sorry. I copied that from my old well marked, leather-bound, Oxford study Bible. You should read Gal. 5:22-23 in an unmarked Bible and notice how many of the Ten Commandments that Paul lists there. (Hint: zero)

Was Paul against godly behavior? No. Was Paul against binding the OT law on Christians? Absolutely!

Hi Ralph, here is more backup for you. You said "Was Paul against godly behavior? No. Was Paul against binding the OT law on Christians? Absolutely!"Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. That is the primary reason for the confusion today. We are now under the priesthood of Melchisedec and as such, we must reject the priesthood of Aaron.

Why germs and viruses. They are quality control agents. God is quality. If the quality of health and health rules drops below a certain level. germs and viruses destroy the plant or creature. As for Satan, God uses him in the same way that a leaf is not wasted, but becomes compost for other plants. Satan is sometimes used to test people as in Job, but generally is used as a catalyst. With Satan influence, people are forced to chose 'life or death,' and constantly follow through. Otherwise, people would sit on the fence, and learn little from personal experience. I've noticed this in society in general. As standards slide, there's a polarization. People are either swept alone, or they put their foot down, resisting evil, strengthening their beliefs and convictions.