If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

The Following User Says Thank You to PacersHomer For This Useful Post:

Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

The fact that Kobe has just one MVP is crazy. Shaq only has one too. Steve Nash has as many MVP's as Shaq and Kobe combined. Shaq should have definitely won the 04-05 one that Nash won. Shaq transformed the Heat into an elite team while the Lakers crumbled and missed the playoffs without him. Nash made the Suns great, but the Mavs were still an elite team without him. 04-05 Shaq was the epitome of an MVP in every sense.

Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

Well theres Magic and Bird who brought the game to the masses, then there is Jordan who took it to an unbelieveable level. Kobe almost can't pass them, there's just not as much to accomplish in the big picture to reach that level. I saw Bird and Magic their entire careers, just a whole other level on making players around them better and clutchness. Jordan was simple unbelieveable almost every night, played both ways. Kobe is great, but he'll never pass those 3 in my book, not even close. Guys like Wilt, Russell, are just before my time. Jabbar was an older version by the time I was watching. Hard to say. I will say those 3 were great, I put Jabbar a clear notch below Wilt and Russell, though.

sooo

MJ

Bird/Magic

Alot of other great players. Like Shaq, Hakeem, then probably Duncan (in retrospect, in a couple of years) Stockton, Malone in the conversation. Where's Barkley fall, he was unstoppable for awhile. I mean their could be an argument for 20 players in the next tier, I'd have Kobe towards the top of it, but a fair distance from the top 3, imo.

PS I think Lebron will reach that next group fairly easily and should already be part of the conversation.

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Speed For This Useful Post:

Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

I don't put him as high as most others might in the all time conversation. I still feel like he's a chucker, who was fortunate enough to have the green light since the beginning of his career thanks to the early successes he had with Shaq. If you take each of these players at their absolute peak, and ignore the accumulated stats over however long their careers were there are sevarl players I would choose in a playground pickup game before Kobe. His career is built on longevity, similar to John Stockton. Here's my list in order...

Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

It's hard to pass ambassadors of the game. Which Magic and Bird, and later MJ were. But take that out of context, look at their games, longevity, their numbers and there's no way anyone can say that Kobe just CANNOT pass Magic or Bird. He's passed Bird in rings, and his numbers blow Magic's out of the water. Yes Kobe has gotten to play with Shaq, and later Pau, but those guys (Magic and Bird) played with HOF starting lineups throughout most of their careers. As Speed said, they brought the game to the masses. You can only do that once, and once you've done it, you're legacy is sealed no matter what anyone AFTER you has done. But that shouldn't diminish what Kobe has done.

If Kobe wins one more ring his resume will read:

6 rings, 30,000 plus points, 6500 rebounds, 6000 assists, 2000 steals, close to 1300 games, close to 250 (or 3 more NBA seasons). I mean you can hate him all you want, but don't deny his greatness due to your dislike of Kobe Bryant--the man. Kobe was essentially the first player within the post-Jordan era to not only have the hype as the "next great player" but to surpass the hype. He came into--and played in the league at a time where ESPN picked up some serious steam, and NBATV/NBA.COM was launched. This is a much different time than when Magic, Bird and even MJ played. Nowadays a player is being watched and or talked about nearly 24 hrs a day, on a DAILY basis. It's a lot easier to hate someone with all the media nowadays because of the never ending coverage.

The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

It's hard to pass ambassadors of the game. Which Magic and Bird, and later MJ were. But take that out of context, look at their games, longevity, their numbers and there's no way anyone can say that Kobe just CANNOT pass Magic or Bird. He's passed Bird in rings, and his numbers blow Magic's out of the water...

MJ
Magic/Bird
Kobe
Wilt
Kareem

I have to put him below Bird, a by a lot, just on skills.

Who was a better shooter? Bird, easily
Who was a better passer? Bird, easily
Who excelled an another offensive category? Bird, rebounding

Who was better defensively? Kobe

Bird will get shortchanged in career numbers analysis, due to 5 years in college and a career-ending back problems

The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

Who was a better shooter? Bird, easily
Who was a better passer? Bird, easily
Who excelled an another offensive category? Bird, rebounding

Who was better defensively? Kobe

Bird will get shortchanged in career numbers analysis, due to 5 years in college and a career-ending back problems

To me, and obviously this is all opinion, but when you talk about greats, its not as black and white as "who's a better shooter", etc.

I mean hell Bird was a better shooter and passer than MJ and a wayyyy better shooter than Magic. (come to think about it--Bird is close to being the best shooter ever lol) Outside of Bird, most great scorer's aren't necessarily GREAT shooters. But if he played all three (including Kobe) in one on one, he probably loses. Obviously it's a team game--but you get what I'm saying.

Kobe is the not only the first, but he may be the ONLY high school to pros player that went on to have a legendary career. KG has had a HOF career no doubt, but he trailed off eventually. Kobe has been great for what, 10, 12 straight seasons now? He's been playing this long and hasn't slipped a bit. In fact, he's probably gotten better as his athleticism has eroded--which is unheard of for a guard.

Like I said, IMO it's just hard to say "well he's the better shooter, he's the better passer" when it comes to greats.

And I'm not saying he's better. ((Though I think he will be when it's all said and done))--I'm saying its debatable.